Post by: IndigoFenix on March 30, 2014, 10:33:29 am
BoundWorlds
The Collaborative Mutliverse Project
The Collaborative Mutliverse Project
Play BoundWorlds Open Beta in a browser (https://boundworlds.com)
Download the app (which is really just a window to the browser so basically pointless) (http://indigofenix.com/boundworlds/BoundWorlds.zip)
Discord link (https://discord.gg/bW99U7P)
Play on Itch.io (https://indigofenix.itch.io/boundworlds)
Follow BoundWorlds on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/boundworlds/)Videos:
Open Alpha Trailer (https://youtu.be/GBQdkIdzwBs)
Early Gameplay Video (Protea Demo) (https://youtu.be/BuOctj6NQn8)
Early Gameplay Video (Harlequin Epicycle Battle) (https://youtu.be/HBmGLzfbHEQ)
Detailed Features Explanation Video (https://youtu.be/QjCdRsmHcxk)
Legendary Dungeons Trailer (https://youtu.be/QgDR3azAPW0)
Tutorial Video Playlist (https://youtu.be/jfimJ4ZVeaQ)
Spoiler: Images (click to show/hide)
What is BoundWorlds?
BoundWorlds is a "massively single player" browser-based RPG/exploration game/level editor with a twist.
In it, you play as a nameless traveler who wanders from world to world through portals called 'Gates', meeting NPCs, solving puzzles, overcoming obstacles, and exploring the collective dreamscape that is the BoundWorlds universe. But that's only half of the game. Because all of the worlds you explore are drawn, designed, and patched together by players such as yourself.
Unlike most 'design your own level' games, the BoundWorlds 'Hub' is not a point where all the levels are accessed. Instead, it serves only as the starting point on your traveler's journey. When designing a world, you can create exits that lead to whichever world you choose. BoundWorlds has a cohesive, network-like geography as a result.
You don't have to design a full game to create a part of the BoundWorlds network. One player's dungeon can become a part of another player's overworld. An artfully designed hallway can serve as a corridor between two separate worlds. A painting-filled castle in the sky can become a nexus for multiple levels designed by different players. And so on...
You can explore the BoundWorlds universe without logging in, but you need to log in to save data or create worlds.
Spoiler: Game Controls (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Current Features (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Media Resources (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Spark System (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lore (some spoilers) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Planned features (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Original Inspirations (click to show/hide)
Post by: sjm9876 on March 30, 2014, 11:06:17 am
Would gates have to be to a specific world? Or would 'random' gates be possible?
And, of course, how possible would it be to script in basic combat using the language already there?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 30, 2014, 11:23:46 am
This certainly looks interesting, and I may have a go at making a world later. A couple of questions though:
Would gates have to be to a specific world? Or would 'random' gates be possible?
And, of course, how possible would it be to script in basic combat using the language already there?
Random gates, as in link to a random gate in a given list? Or random as in links to any possible gate?
The second would defeat the purpose (kind of like a random URL). The first isn't possible now, but could be put in later.
A basic combat script... Well, modifying variables are possible, so I guess you could use a variable as an HP level and have certain actions decrease it...but really the scripting system is extremely basic, it's more like, you need to pick up the key before you can open the door, or talking to person A after talking to person B will make him say something different...stuff like that. The current focus is on exploration, in-depth gaming will be something to look into for later developments. (I mean, NPCs can't technically even move yet. I abandoned the project while I was in the middle of writing the scripting.)
Post by: Armok on March 30, 2014, 06:14:51 pm
Post by: Shook on March 30, 2014, 06:41:38 pm
One more thing, by the way. Conflicting sprite styles could realistically become a thing, especially between the player and the environment. Also, given how players can make their own graphics and sounds in the world, wouldn't some grief-proofing be needed? I mean, i doubt that the average Bay watcher would do such things, but y'know, trolls sadly do exist. Although i suppose you can just close the tab if you happen upon a "grief world", so it's probably not a big issue for the time being.
Long story short: Colour me interested! c:
Edit: Now look at what you made me do. :<
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 30, 2014, 11:38:32 pm
That's a nice world you've got going there, Shook. When you're ready, add in a public gate and I'll link to it.
Post by: Arx on March 31, 2014, 02:38:30 am
EDIT:
And the world creation area. I can get to "Enter a world name", but hitting OK! doesn't do anything.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 31, 2014, 03:08:19 am
This looks very cool, but the login/sign up interface always fails to connect to the server for me.
EDIT:
And the world creation area. I can get to "Enter a world name", but hitting OK! doesn't do anything.
The server has an annoying tendency to go down every so often. I'm going to have to either file a complaint or just move to a more reliable host. Try again in a little while.
Post by: Arx on March 31, 2014, 03:15:10 am
Ah, cool. Was worried it might be because of long oversea ping times, but it makes more sense that it wold be caused by the server going down.This looks very cool, but the login/sign up interface always fails to connect to the server for me.
EDIT:
And the world creation area. I can get to "Enter a world name", but hitting OK! doesn't do anything.
The server has an annoying tendency to go down every so often. I'm going to have to either file a complaint or just move to a more reliable host. Try again in a little while.
As I said, this looks really cool. What happens if there are multiple players in a room at the same time? Are they visible to each other, or what?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 31, 2014, 04:32:34 am
Post by: Arx on March 31, 2014, 04:49:59 am
Post by: Orange Wizard on March 31, 2014, 04:54:38 am
Awesome. This has been one of my favourite game concepts for years, so you haveFTFYonetwo people eagerly awaiting updates/improvements/whatever you decide to do!
It sounds pretty cool so far, and I think it's got a lot of potential.
Sorting out greif worlds (and having rules/standards for worldbuilding) is something I would say is incredibly important. What puts me off an online game faster than anything else is poor management - it makes it feel like the creators don't care.
It shouldn't be a problem for now, but you'll inevitably encounter the 99% of Sturgeon's Law :(
Post by: Retropunch on March 31, 2014, 02:41:18 pm
I've always thought that the very best sort of 'massive' game (either massively multiplayer or just massive) could be done by giving the player a really good framework to interact with their environment and then just letting them loose on proceduraly generated (or player generated) worlds.
This is going to sound super critical, and I'm only saying it as I think the game has a huge amount of promise:
I'd really suggest going for a different graphical style. I get what you're trying to do with all the different tilesets and retro theme (as well as harking back to JRPGs), but I think one coherent style would be better. There seem to be a lot of really talented tile makers around, and I'm sure you could partner with one to make a really awesome tileset. Also, your sizing makes it look a bit more like a JRPG world map and takes away from the exploration feel a bit.
Again, I don't want you to think I'm just trashing your art style, I just don't feel it fits somehow.
Good luck!
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 01, 2014, 02:08:08 am
I love the idea!
I've always thought that the very best sort of 'massive' game (either massively multiplayer or just massive) could be done by giving the player a really good framework to interact with their environment and then just letting them loose on proceduraly generated (or player generated) worlds.
This is going to sound super critical, and I'm only saying it as I think the game has a huge amount of promise:
I'd really suggest going for a different graphical style. I get what you're trying to do with all the different tilesets and retro theme (as well as harking back to JRPGs), but I think one coherent style would be better. There seem to be a lot of really talented tile makers around, and I'm sure you could partner with one to make a really awesome tileset. Also, your sizing makes it look a bit more like a JRPG world map and takes away from the exploration feel a bit.
Again, I don't want you to think I'm just trashing your art style, I just don't feel it fits somehow.
Good luck!
Well, that's the thing: there IS no real graphical style, aside from the player sprite. Everything else is imported by the world builder. I suppose there can be one or several 'default' tilesets for people who don't want to have to make or find a new tileset (there already is one, but it is very basic - the 'blocks' tileset). But one of the main ideas is to make everything in-game as generic as possible, leaving the style up to the user.
Of course, there is the question of the player sprite itself. As the only real constant, its style will strongly influence the style of all worlds. I tried to keep it as generic as possible.
One reason I'm going with a JRPG style is because there is already an abundance of resources online for sprites, tilesets, etc. to go with it. Other suggestions are welcome, of course.
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 01, 2014, 04:04:52 am
I'm indifferent as to what that style is, however,
Post by: Arx on April 01, 2014, 04:45:53 am
Can tilesets be animated?
Post by: Retropunch on April 01, 2014, 07:51:35 am
Well, that's the thing: there IS no real graphical style, aside from the player sprite. Everything else is imported by the world builder. I suppose there can be one or several 'default' tilesets for people who don't want to have to make or find a new tileset (there already is one, but it is very basic - the 'blocks' tileset). But one of the main ideas is to make everything in-game as generic as possible, leaving the style up to the user.
Of course, there is the question of the player sprite itself. As the only real constant, its style will strongly influence the style of all worlds. I tried to keep it as generic as possible.
One reason I'm going with a JRPG style is because there is already an abundance of resources online for sprites, tilesets, etc. to go with it. Other suggestions are welcome, of course.
I do understand that (and I like it in some ways), but I have to agree with InsanityIncarnate that I feel a more coherent set (or one large one, whichever is easier) would give a much more coherent style to the game. At the moment it feels a little disjointed graphically, and I'm sure it'll become more so with more players adding more tilesets. Again, I understand it's kinda supposed to be disjointed/patchwork, but I feel less like I'm walking through different worlds and more like I'm just stumbling into random tilesets. I'm sure you could team up with a tileset designer on the forums here and create tons of resources for people to design exciting worlds.
Again, sorry if that sounds overly critical, I really love the idea and the game so far, I just feel strongly that it'd be better with a coherent tileset.
Post by: Arx on April 01, 2014, 09:59:07 am
Also, IF, I think you may need to file a complaint or whatever. The server spends more time down than up for me.
Post by: Retropunch on April 01, 2014, 11:42:16 am
I like the custom tilesets, myself. I suppose it's because I feel that if there's a specific tileset then it will feel more like a world with user created rooms than a universe with user created worlds, plus 1/3 of the fun in this for me is seeing the creativity of other users and their tilesets, 1/3 is making my own tileset (and thus the mood of my world), and only 1/3 is actually walking around. In the end, though, it's IndigoFenix's call.
Definitely his call, and I do get what you're saying but I just think that it feels to disjointed at the moment. I guess it would need a rather large tileset to allow for creativity, and possibly incorporate some different styles, but at the moment it just feels as though I'm stumbling into tilesets of different quality and complete weirdness rather than different coherent worlds.
Again, I see the pluses and minuses of both sides, I'd just prefer coherent tilesets whilst it's getting up and running.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 01, 2014, 11:48:29 am
I'll see what I can do about that server issue. I'm not sure if it's the same for everyone (in which case there is no solution but to a more reliable host) or if there's some client-side problems going on, which may be partially the fault of the code.
Post by: Retropunch on April 01, 2014, 12:25:42 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on April 01, 2014, 02:52:25 pm
That, and I think large multi-user projects will probably use the same tileset throughout anyway.
Post by: Shook on April 01, 2014, 04:03:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 01, 2014, 04:06:09 pm
All right, I'm making a gate...
People can now access Floaty Metal World from the intro area.
By the way, to make an actual exit, you will need to make a sprite with a 'change rooms' function. Gates only work as entrances.
Post by: Retropunch on April 01, 2014, 04:30:09 pm
(click tilesets on the left)
It's got a ton of tilesets which are free for commercial use, and you could string some of those together into a big 'official' tileset. I guess you could have official tileset gates or something, just to know that everything will work properly and look alright.
Post by: Shook on April 01, 2014, 06:08:34 pm
Nice.Eggcellent. Also, gonna fix that as soon as the server gets back up again. :P
All right, I'm making a gate...
People can now access Floaty Metal World from the intro area.
By the way, to make an actual exit, you will need to make a sprite with a 'change rooms' function. Gates only work as entrances.
Post by: Arx on April 02, 2014, 03:43:10 am
(http://i.imgur.com/R9Mi8Od.png)
No exit as yet. Also, the entire world is a reference to an ancient computer game. I will be incredibly surprised if anyone gets it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 02, 2014, 06:27:30 am
Post by: Arx on April 02, 2014, 09:39:25 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ZncPGVc.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 02, 2014, 12:41:43 pm
Post by: Retropunch on April 02, 2014, 01:41:37 pm
I'm rebuilding the central/hub/tutorial area to use the 'blocks' tileset, which is a step above the plain blue tiles that were there previously. It's not exactly high-def, but it is enough to make a unique-looking world with if you're creative.
Could I also suggest possibly a smaller central hub? I felt it was a lot of walking before getting to a 'level'. Possibly an initial tutorial gate would allow new people to go through that?
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 02, 2014, 03:43:16 pm
I'm rebuilding the central/hub/tutorial area to use the 'blocks' tileset, which is a step above the plain blue tiles that were there previously. It's not exactly high-def, but it is enough to make a unique-looking world with if you're creative.
Could I also suggest possibly a smaller central hub? I felt it was a lot of walking before getting to a 'level'. Possibly an initial tutorial gate would allow new people to go through that?
Yeah, that's what I'm doing. One branch to the tutorial, one to the worlds.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 04, 2014, 07:38:15 am
(http://i.imgur.com/HN6o3ni.png) (http://imgur.com/HN6o3ni)
It is a 4 frame animation (the column on the left will repeat twice per step).
Sprite graphics can have any size, but they will always be regarded as a single tile. The graphics will be positioned and centered automatically.
You might need to do a full reload (Shift+F5) for updates to work.
Post by: Arx on April 06, 2014, 11:38:57 pm
Update: You can now make randomly-wandering NPCs for that old-school JRPG village feel. Graphics are a little inflexible at this point, but custom animations will come in time. The sprite sheet must look like this:Looks pretty neat. Will have to see how that works when I next have time, which is unfortunately not right now.
It is a 4 frame animation (the column on the left will repeat twice per step).
Sprite graphics can have any size, but they will always be regarded as a single tile. The graphics will be positioned and centered automatically.
You might need to do a full reload (Shift+F5) for updates to work.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 07, 2014, 02:20:06 am
In the meantime, I'm going to see what can be done about the current scripting system. Right now it's kind of complicated to make sprites do anything more interesting than wander around and say the same thing over and over. It is actually possible to make stuff like key doors but stuff like that should be easy. Also I'm thinking about a persistant item system that will allow you to save progress for proper quests and stuff.
Post by: Arx on April 07, 2014, 02:37:45 am
It is actually possible to make stuff like key doors but stuff like that should be easy.Hallelujah.
Now, where could I get a good resource for default graphics? This game still needs some and pixel art is unfortunately not my strong point.Retropunch linked a website with a bunch of tilesets, maybe there? Or ask shook if he has enough free time :P
Post by: Retropunch on April 07, 2014, 05:26:07 am
Now, where could I get a good resource for default graphics? This game still needs some and pixel art is unfortunately not my strong point.
In the meantime, I'm going to see what can be done about the current scripting system. Right now it's kind of complicated to make sprites do anything more interesting than wander around and say the same thing over and over. It is actually possible to make stuff like key doors but stuff like that should be easy. Also I'm thinking about a persistant item system that will allow you to save progress for proper quests and stuff.
Yeah that link I posted had loads of good tilesets, all of them I think were fine for non-commercial use.
In terms of advancement, I'm not really sure what you want your game to be in the end? I mean, if you wanted it to be like an exploration and socializing space then a chat system would be best, or if you wanted it to be more of a puzzle building thing then tiles which could be used would be best.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 07, 2014, 09:25:01 am
In terms of advancement, I'm not really sure what you want your game to be in the end? I mean, if you wanted it to be like an exploration and socializing space then a chat system would be best, or if you wanted it to be more of a puzzle building thing then tiles which could be used would be best.
There are no concrete plans to make any direct player-to-player interactions, so a live chat system is probably unnecessary. The main focus will be on world building on the one side and exploration on the other. While I would like it to be possible for a user to create a full-blown plot-driven RPG world in the end, these will probably be few and far between, considering that if someone wanted to make a full game, they'd probably just use RPG Maker instead (although anyone who DOES make a full game will probably rise to the top of the sorting algorithm of popular areas pretty quickly). Rather, I expect BoundWorlds to wind up as a patchwork of smaller, 'artsy' worlds - whether artsy in the visual sense, unique short games, constantly changing 'blog worlds', or interesting for other reasons. Things that aren't big enough or polished enough to make a full game out of, but are nevertheless worth making and visiting. The end result, I'm hoping, will be kind of like a community-built, constantly evolving multiversal dreamscape - if you've played or heard of Yume Nikki, you'll have a general idea of what I'm hoping to create (psychological terror and mindscrews dependent on the builders of individual worlds, of course).
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 07, 2014, 04:02:27 pm
You can set variables under 'advanced functions' when editing a sprite. Variables can be set to refer to either a numerical value, a string, or a particular sprite. The easiest way to transfer information from sprite-to-sprite is through global variables. (Previously, the only way sprites could 'communicate' was if they were all created by a single 'master' sprite which then stored each of them as a separately named variable. Now you can just make a bunch of coins, have them set the global variable $coinCount to increase by one when you touch them and then destroy themselves, and have a door that checks $coinCount when you check it and destroys itself if the value is high enough. Or you can make a coin door, have it set the global variable $coinDoor to itself when it is created - do this by leaving the value space blank - give it a function that checks the $coinCount, and have each coin run the function checkCoins of the sprite $coinCount when the coin is collected, causing the door to open automatically when you collect enough coins. And so on.)
I...should probably write up a proper script tutorial, or put one into the tutorial area.
Post by: Armok on April 07, 2014, 10:01:16 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 08, 2014, 09:38:44 am
Hmm, even if you don't make player able to directly interact, it might still be an interesting idea to have meta-global variables that change the actual world for everyone? Like, somone could make a room where different people have to cooperate to stand on switches simultaneously, even if they cant see each other.
Eh, that seems like a lot of effort for something without a whole lot of practical application. If I were to do that I might as well make an option to make each individual room properly multiplayer, but that's basically making a whole new type of game.
Post by: Teneb on April 08, 2014, 12:43:33 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 09, 2014, 09:51:30 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 14, 2014, 06:58:52 am
To target the player in an advanced function, set the target variable as *. I guess that means the player's name can be Asterisk? Insofar as they have an identity at all?
You can also make instant teleportation by setting the jump time to 0 or -1 in the advanced function. If you set it to -1, the camera will move too, which with some trickery will let you make impossible areas like endless walkways or puzzle mazes (an example of this is demonstrated in the Hub).
Also, if you make a sprite with graphics taken from a single row of images, it will automatically animate.
You will need to reload the page with ctrl-F5 for the new functions to work.
Post by: Arx on April 14, 2014, 08:11:28 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 14, 2014, 10:21:11 am
It can take a while to balance all the different aspects that have to go in - default graphics, worlds, the program itself... Maybe I'll take some time out to make an actual proper game so people can know the kind of things that are already possible with the system.
Post by: Arx on April 15, 2014, 08:15:49 am
Edit: Also, the server uptime seems to have improved significantly.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2014, 12:15:40 pm
So, when I attempt to use (http://i.imgur.com/UhXs1mq.png) as an animation, one of the frames keeps a solid white background. Is this a bug, or have I potato?
I've seen this a few times, but I'm not sure what causes it. Saving the image again with a transparent background can fix it, it might also have to do with the particular image editor you're using.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2014, 02:13:57 pm
Post by: emeralis00 on April 15, 2014, 02:59:32 pm
Though I am having a hard time telling if I am logged in or not.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2014, 03:34:08 pm
I am intrigued by this, and already have ideas...
Though I am having a hard time telling if I am logged in or not.
Technically, you are always logged in as someone. When you start the page you are logged in as a nameless user whose password is a blank space ('logging out' is just logging in while leaving the user name and password fields blank). This means that you can build worlds without logging in, but anyone else who is playing without being logged in will be able to edit or delete them, so obviously you won't want to put much effort into them.
You have to log in every time you reload the page, but not when simply returning to the start.
If you are logged in, you will see the worlds you have created when going to the World Builder, otherwise, you will see the anonymous worlds.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2014, 04:03:45 pm
Post by: Arx on April 16, 2014, 02:10:49 am
Progress has been made!
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 16, 2014, 05:33:33 pm
Post by: emeralis00 on April 16, 2014, 09:26:14 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 17, 2014, 03:20:02 am
You can now make layers that function as background images, with transparency, rotation, and parallax scrolling for distance effects. No tiling option unfortunately, so you'll need images at least large enough to cover the screen.
If anything doesn't work right, try clearing your cache (ctrl-f5). This will be needed for each update.
Post by: emeralis00 on April 17, 2014, 10:39:46 am
If anything doesn't work right, try clearing your cache (ctrl-f5). This will be needed for each update.Still doesn't work. Can't access any worlds or log in.
Post by: Arx on April 17, 2014, 11:12:02 am
Post by: emeralis00 on April 17, 2014, 12:55:35 pm
It was like that a lot for me at first as well, but it seemed to stabilise. I can get in no problem right now. If you have two tabs open with BW, the second one you opened doesn't seem to work; is it maybe that?Nope. Tried with only one tab of BW open and no other tabs. Still can't log in, or access worlds. It isn't adblock or other things like that either, already disabled those in case.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 18, 2014, 10:21:35 am
blocks (basic tileset as seen in the Hub)
stars (background image)
coin (animated spinning coin, uses continuous animation convention)
key
door (32x48)
keydoor (32x48)
blob (little gray blob with eyes, uses RPG Maker VX convention)
aco (little gray humanoid, uses RPG Maker VX convention)
traveler (the player sprite, uses RPG Maker VX convention)
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 22, 2014, 05:08:38 pm
More importantly, there is now a new tutorial section for advanced functions, accessible from inside the regular tutorial area, with demonstrations of coin hunts, switch doors, and cutscenes.
Post by: Arx on April 23, 2014, 12:34:01 am
Some day I'll get enough done to actually have keys for some of the locked doors...
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 23, 2014, 03:56:35 pm
Cool!
Some day I'll get enough done to actually have keys for some of the locked doors...
Keys are one of the easiest of the advanced functions. Just set a persistent global variable like $*hasKey to 1 when you get the key and have the door run a block function that checks for the variable, then destroys itself if you have the key. You can also set the key to destroy itself when it is created if you have already picked it up.
I fixed some divide-by-zero errors in the walk function. You can now make sprites turn in a particular direction by telling them to walk zero tiles in that direction.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 25, 2014, 08:43:28 am
Should this topic be in the 'Other Games' forum?
Post by: Arcvasti on April 27, 2014, 10:44:31 pm
Also, PTW as this sounds really neat.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 27, 2014, 11:31:27 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 28, 2014, 08:57:44 am
Basically in order to build stuff you'd need to first collect coins which you could get by exploring. To encourage traveling to new areas instead of just always going to the same place that has a whole bunch of coins in easy reach, there could be a limit to the number of coins you could collect per day.
You could also gain coins based on the number of people who visit your worlds and how long they stay.
Some people would abuse the system, but over time players should prefer to go to interesting worlds rather than boring ones, thereby rewarding players who create the most interesting worlds with the ability to make more. For beginning players, it would encourage exploration and help them to get new ideas before they start building.
Post by: Arx on April 28, 2014, 12:03:27 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 02, 2014, 04:50:07 am
Concerning the item system, the syntax will be basically the same as current persistent variables (a variable whose name begins with $*), where the name after that prefix refers to the item's id. An item is simply a persistent variable associated with a given world, and will be able to store a string or numeric value, just like a regular variable, as well as an image, description text, and possibly a function that runs when it is 'used' in the right place. They will also be described as 'key' or regular items, the difference being that the player can choose to discard a regular item at any time, while key items will be stuck to the player unless they are removed through a function in the world they originated in. Key items can also be discarded through a special device in the Hub which will erase all items the player obtained in a given world. There may or may not be a limit to the number of items a player can carry at a time. A player's inventory will be saved to the database when they jump worlds through a Gate, but not if they leave using the escape button.
The variable reserved for affecting a player's coin count will simply be $*. Coins will have their own special rules describing how many a player can carry at a time, how many can be saved per day, and other things. There will be various contingencies in place to prevent large, boring treasure rooms.
The item system is not yet online, but if you use this system now it will work as long as you remain in a single world, players will simply lose all 'items' when jumping worlds.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 09, 2014, 02:19:19 am
The 'Collide' event is called whenever a sprite steps onto any other sprite (NOT when another sprite steps onto it though). In any events within the collide function, the '@' symbol refers to the other sprite in the collision. To specify events pertaining to a particular sprite class, you'll need to give that sprite class a 'start' function that sets a particular variable, which the colliding sprite can check for.
For instance, lets say you want an 'Eater' sprite that can eat other 'Edible' sprites. In the start event for each of the edible sprites, you'd set a variable 'isEdible' to 1. Then, in the Collide function for the Eater sprite, you'd set a block to check 'if isEdible of @ is equal to 1', and if so, destroy @.
This isn't too useful yet since sprites don't have any real AI, but combined with Step and Jump functions you can make interacting puzzle elements.
Post by: Arx on May 09, 2014, 02:27:27 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 09, 2014, 03:59:50 am
Post by: Retropunch on May 09, 2014, 07:47:02 am
a universal currency that is used to build worlds.
This would be really good - I definitely think that the game needs more, well, game in it.
How about if you gave all players a set amount of gold and then put some more scattered around other worlds that you've built (to guarantee a certain amount). With this you can build your own world, with each block/object costing a certain amount of gold. Once your world is built (or it could go up as you're building it), you then get a certain amount of gold (based on how much you put into the world or other factors) to use as loot. When your world gets entered/looted, you could then get a certain percentage back.
This could easily be expanded on. For maze type worlds you could have a 'completion item' which gives the builder (in percentage) and the player more gold, this would only be buildable after a certain amount of gold and certain amount of wealth had been spent on the world already and has to be a certain distance from the entrance portal. I'm sure there are loads of other ideas, but I'd definitely encourage some sort of 'game' systems being put in place, even if they're pretty loose.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 09, 2014, 09:56:44 am
a universal currency that is used to build worlds.
This would be really good - I definitely think that the game needs more, well, game in it.
How about if you gave all players a set amount of gold and then put some more scattered around other worlds that you've built (to guarantee a certain amount). With this you can build your own world, with each block/object costing a certain amount of gold. Once your world is built (or it could go up as you're building it), you then get a certain amount of gold (based on how much you put into the world or other factors) to use as loot. When your world gets entered/looted, you could then get a certain percentage back.
This could easily be expanded on. For maze type worlds you could have a 'completion item' which gives the builder (in percentage) and the player more gold, this would only be buildable after a certain amount of gold and certain amount of wealth had been spent on the world already and has to be a certain distance from the entrance portal. I'm sure there are loads of other ideas, but I'd definitely encourage some sort of 'game' systems being put in place, even if they're pretty loose.
Well, this could be done, although I don't want to place too many limits on what can and cannot be built, especially since some functions let you make new objects procedurally... no point in making each new object have a cost when you can just make an object that produces more on its own. Perhaps more coins will be used to make bigger rooms and more worlds, and leave it at that. The whole idea is to encourage more building by making the players feel as though they ought to be doing something with the coins they collect, not to restrict it.
In the meantime, I've fixed a few bugs with object motion. The 'step' default function doesn't work properly, but you can make looping functions by creating a custom function that calls itself when it is completed. This allows you to make things like moving obstacles. You can make them do something when they hit the player by making a collide function that checks 'if @ == *' (meaning, if 'other' equals 'player'). There's a demonstration of this in the updated starting area.
Post by: Retropunch on May 10, 2014, 12:04:45 pm
Well, this could be done, although I don't want to place too many limits on what can and cannot be built, especially since some functions let you make new objects procedurally... no point in making each new object have a cost when you can just make an object that produces more on its own. Perhaps more coins will be used to make bigger rooms and more worlds, and leave it at that. The whole idea is to encourage more building by making the players feel as though they ought to be doing something with the coins they collect, not to restrict it.
Good point, perhaps coins could be just used for special stuff and for adding extra space. I really like the idea of getting rewarded for making a good world though - I'm not sure of the best way to do that, but it'd give you a reason to work harder on building worlds.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2014, 01:57:56 pm
Post by: applesauce machine on May 10, 2014, 03:21:43 pm
Spoiler: So uh... how do you advance dialogue? (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2014, 04:06:14 pm
Spoiler: So uh... how do you advance dialogue? (click to show/hide)
Space bar.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2014, 05:16:48 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 11, 2014, 12:11:29 pm
I was thinking it could be based on time. The more time people spend in a world, the more coins the world's builder receives, but only if they leave through a regular gate, to discourage dead ends. Perhaps, to encourage linking to new worlds, the builder also gets a little extra if the player leaves to a world that they haven't visited yet in the session...
That's a really good idea! Possibly some advanced timing/logic could cut down on exploitation.
For instance, it's probably a good idea to only give the WB coins if the player spends over a certain (arbitrary, i'd say about 30 seconds at least) length in the map, to stop them placing the portal opposite the start one. There's also the problem with the player potentially just going off to do something else and leaving the session open, and then the WB getting loaaaads of coins. Possibly it could be recorded on steps traveled/actions taken?
Also, How about only letting the WB place NPCs with enough coins? They could have enough for 2-3 npcs to start with on each map, but it'd be a great incentive to build up coins.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 11, 2014, 12:54:41 pm
Anyway, there's still time to experiment and see what works. But yeah, using steps/actions as a way of determining time spent is a good idea.
Post by: Retropunch on May 11, 2014, 01:11:47 pm
Possibly taking the coins out of anyone's direct control would be best (other than perhaps having a limited number of secrets/other coin enhances for you to put down for the player). The WB could get more access to higher level stuff the more people go through their world. You could build up some nice lore with this as well if you wanted to.
It depends how you want to take it, and I do understand your wish for it to be a story-world sandbox where it's all about experiencing loads of different worlds and stories, but I still feel it needs some more goals/aims for the player to strive for and the only way to do this is to make some things finite.
Post by: Armok on May 11, 2014, 07:52:41 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 11, 2014, 11:37:55 pm
Has anyone considered this coins-to-build system might simply be a bad idea? You want as many people to build as good worlds as possible, and placing a cost on it discourages it. What you *want* to happen is for the exploration part to be more gamey and have costs, and the building system being a way to grind it. What about this; building is free, you get a coin (or gem, since you'll probably have just a few), whenever someone chose to link a portal to your world from theirs. The gems can be gifted, or they can be spent for some permanent variable change in a specific world (typically represented as buying an item), in which case the creator of that world get it.
I am by no means certain about the cost-to-build idea. The principle is best explained by the Zero Punctuation review for Minecraft, which, in a nutshell, suggests that the reason why Minecraft is more popular than, say, Cube (a multiplayer first-person shooter with a very flexible and simple world building system) is that when you give people a limited resource for building that they have to work to obtain (i.e. blocks), they will be more inclined to make use of it for at least creating something (since they don't want all that hard work to go to waste), and the feeling of accomplishment for creating a massive or elaborate structure is much greater than if they can just build it for free, so more people will be inclined to do it.
On the other hand, BoundWorlds isn't Minecraft, the foundation of the program is not oriented toward giving building a cost, and I am not certain that this rather counter-intuitive theory would hold true in it's case. However, seeing as how BW has been online for months now and I can still count the number of people actually building worlds on one hand, I'm looking for anything I can do to make more casual builders interested.
What am I missing here? What is the main barrier to entry?
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 12, 2014, 12:04:26 pm
Post by: Arx on May 12, 2014, 12:21:23 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 12, 2014, 12:36:26 pm
The main barrier for me is that, even working off detailed references, I don't have enough time to do all the spriting I want in my world. It also doesn't help that I have no idea how many people see my world.
To be fair, Arx, you DID make a pretty major undertaking, creating a world from scratch using imported graphics. While the ability to do this IS one of the main selling points of BoundWorlds, there is already a decent set of ready-made graphics, and throwing together a simple set of rooms using the ready-made items, with possibly a few extras added on, shouldn't take much of an investment. I'm not surprised at the lack of outstanding worlds so much as the lack of simple ones.
You'll be able to check on who views your world once I get the coin system set up, which will be around the same time that the item system is implemented. I'm just not sure if I should focus on the item storage system (which only matters for returning players) or on more noticeable, simple options like custom AI, sound effects and scripting events that would get people interested in the first place.
Post by: Arx on May 12, 2014, 01:01:27 pm
To be fair, Arx, you DID make a pretty major undertaking, creating a world from scratch using imported graphics.
That's a good point.
For the lack of worlds, you might want to make a topic in Other Games. It would attract more attention, and this is definitely fleshed out enough to count as a game (if not a completed one), but it's another thread to update.
Post by: Retropunch on May 12, 2014, 01:43:26 pm
I think one of the barriers to a wider audience is that you could do with an updated website. I know website stuff is a pain, but a big logo and some more main screen info/help/list of controls and so on would really help people that just come across it.
Overall, I really think it just needs more focus - as in, I feel you need to really figure out what you want to do with it and pull it more in that direction. At the moment it's kinda unclear what to do other than make a world with a few basic puzzles and some narration. If you want to go in the direction of exploration then there needs to be a reason to explore - just generally enjoying the environment only carries you so far. If you want to go into the world building thing then you definitely need limited resources/a way to collect them. I'm guessing you want a mix, but it definitely needs a much stronger direction.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 12, 2014, 03:22:03 pm
New player registration isn't working for me?
I think one of the barriers to a wider audience is that you could do with an updated website. I know website stuff is a pain, but a big logo and some more main screen info/help/list of controls and so on would really help people that just come across it.
Overall, I really think it just needs more focus - as in, I feel you need to really figure out what you want to do with it and pull it more in that direction. At the moment it's kinda unclear what to do other than make a world with a few basic puzzles and some narration. If you want to go in the direction of exploration then there needs to be a reason to explore - just generally enjoying the environment only carries you so far. If you want to go into the world building thing then you definitely need limited resources/a way to collect them. I'm guessing you want a mix, but it definitely needs a much stronger direction.
It's true - the website has not been updated in a long time. Also registering is a little different than most registration systems, so having a little information to clarify that may be useful.
As for the focus...Ideally, the focus should be on creating elaborate worlds, even proper adventure games, that are all loosely connected with each other. (I'm not sure, but I think the original idea that ultimately grew into BoundWorlds may have been heavily influenced by the Pendragon book series, which I was reading at around the time I began the project the first time). The advanced functions are very flexible, you can already create travel-and-trading quests to find an item or defeat an enemy and then return for a reward or a victory cutscene. There isn't any true 'save' feature yet (all 'items' are deleted when traveling to a new world), but with the persistent inventory system that will change.
But realistically, there will be very few people with the patience to actually put together adventure worlds with complicated plotlines, so I want there to be small 'satellite worlds' of simple puzzles that link the 'masterpiece' worlds together, or elaborate but pointless 'art projects' (in the style of Yume Nikki). Since most players will at least start with these, I want it to be as easy as possible to ease into the world building system until someone gets the idea and motivation to create something more elaborate.
Post by: Retropunch on May 12, 2014, 04:05:18 pm
I know this would be a huge departure, but how about framing it all within a lot more lore/story/atmosphere? This goes back to what I was saying about a more coherent theme, but more than that I can imagine it could be framed within some sort of 'dream worlds' or dimension travelling story. This would do a lot to give people a reason behind/for making worlds, give the world builder a bit more direction and tie things together better. I just feel it needs more story that you put in, rather than expecting the players to build up their own stories.
If nothing else, I'd suggest making a ton of maps/stories yourself and making sure that the starting world is absolutely fantastic in terms of tileset, layout and so on. Currently it's a bit bland and it doesn't really entice people as much.
Again, I'm sorry to criticize so much - I think it's got a lot of potential and I really like what you're trying to do, I just feel it needs more direction from you rather than just hoping people will create it all themselves.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 13, 2014, 02:31:47 am
The Chaos will consume the junk worlds that are neither visited regularly nor maintained by their creator.
Might be a little overly melodramatic but I think it works.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 13, 2014, 03:51:30 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 13, 2014, 04:45:26 pm
The overall lore is...
That sounds interesting, and certainly workable into a really interesting atmosphere, but you really need to work on building it into the game!
How about having a few big worlds to explore with a few stories/quests related to that (even simple fetch quests), and then portals to 'chaotic worlds' (which are the player built ones) which you gradually unlock?
You could unlock the first set of chaotic worlds (the best, small worlds - chosen by you) early on, and then unlock bigger chaotic worlds later on. You could have the possibility to build small rooms first, which could then gradually expand to larger ones.
I think it's all about having some progression/story/game to carry it. Although creating your own stories is nice, it needs something to keep people coming back to it and to motivate them to contribute. For those that just want to build there could be a separate 'builders account' which gives you unlimited funds and stuff.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 14, 2014, 02:08:28 pm
You can also make invisible tilesets now. That way you can use a visible but non-solid tileset to make your room look good, and then use an invisible tileset with solid tiles to handle the collisions.
I've started putting together a more elaborate world, with a real plotline and better graphics, as Retropunch suggested. It is called Protea, you can access it from the Universal Gate to see how it is developing.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 16, 2014, 07:35:18 am
You can now add sounds, both through advanced functions and through the basic function editor.
The basic function editor now lets you transform one sprite into another (actually works by adding a new sprite in the same position while deleting the old one).
To accommodate for all the new moving objects and sounds, you can now pause by pressing P. This will also stop all sounds.
The World Builder now lets you edit your world directly through a text file (using XML format), if you prefer doing things like that instead of using the in-game editor. It may make some kinds of editing easier, and may also allow you to do some things the regular editor does not allow, however be warned that some changes you can make this way may not be compatible with future updates.
Also some loading-related bugs have been fixed.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 16, 2014, 10:33:47 am
Also, not sure if everyone realized, but you can hover the mouse over the items in the function builder to find out what they do.
Post by: emeralis00 on May 17, 2014, 09:31:11 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 18, 2014, 12:34:10 am
Aside from not having time to toss at things, I wanted to look for a nicer looking tileset. The default one is pretty bland and uninteresting.
I found a couple of good ones, but since I didn't make them, I can't use them as the 'official' tileset for the game. I'd suggest OpenGameArt.org, it has a lot of free resources, but you have to copy them to another site rather than link directly to them.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 18, 2014, 04:30:47 pm
Post by: emeralis00 on May 18, 2014, 11:01:44 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 19, 2014, 12:09:44 am
You can build worlds for free, but over time, the Chaos will try and delete worlds. Coins 'invested' into that world by the player act as a 'shield' to protect them from deletion, and will be gradually drained away. The builder can voluntarily invest coins in a world. When a world runs out of coins, it will start to siphon coins from its creator in order to sustain itself. Only when its creator runs out of (non-invested) coins will the world be deleted.
A world builder earns coins when people view your world, based on two factors: how much time they spend in it (checked through the database itself) and how many times they take a step. The number of coins is based primarily on time. However, this value is capped at 10 times the amount of time they spent walking. If a player spends more than 10 times as much time standing still as they spend walking, the builder will not get any extra points beyond this. (This number may be adjusted). Coins earned by a world go directly toward that world's upkeep.
Time and actions spent building a world also count toward that world's upkeep, which should give worlds that its builder worked hard on a significant boost over those that were tossed together in a few minutes.
A player earns coins either by withdrawing them from one of their worlds' investment, or by picking them up in other people's worlds. However, when a player earns coins from someone else's world, the amount of coins they earn is taken out of how many coins they would have given to that world upon exiting. This ensures that their earnings are capped based on the amount of time they spend in a world (to prevent a world builder from simply leaving out a chest that gives players a million coins) and also discourages 'treasure worlds' that have little independent merit but are visited because they are filled with coins. Such 'treasure worlds' can exist, but they will tend to be deleted quickly.
A world builder will earn a bonus if the player exits a world back to the same world and room they originally entered from. This is to encourage semi-cohesive geography. There will also be a bonus if a player uses their world to travel to a world they haven't visited yet in the session. This is to encourage linking to new worlds.
Most importantly: A world builder will not receive any points if the player is forced to leave using the escape key. This is to discourage dead-end rooms with no escape. Players will not receive any coins either if they leave using the escape key; this is to discourage players from bouncing out unless they actually have to.
So: in short - to earn many coins, build worlds that players will like to travel to and spend time walking around in, include links to new, obscure worlds, include links that link back to the same area they are initially entered from when possible, add coins to reward players but not too many, and avoid dead ends.
Exactly how volatile the system is has yet to be determined. I want there to be some means of automatically deleting troll or junk worlds, but I don't want anyone to have to be frantically worried that the project they worked so hard on will be deleted against their will. (If you're afraid of it, remember that you CAN save the XML data of a world to your computer and re-upload it later - although the initial investment will be lower because you didn't spend as much time on it in the in-game world builder.)
Post by: Armok on May 19, 2014, 05:33:56 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 19, 2014, 06:16:34 pm
This sounds like a really good system, although I can imagine players could get annoyed with everything being permanently lost and feeling like they need to keep playing just so their world doesn't get deleted. How about once the world reaches a certain level it becomes guaranteed safe? Possibly the worlds could get 'corrupted' instead of deleted, you could delete some random blocks/change some and just make it a mess. This could be undone with a certain number of coins perhaps.
A few thoughts I've had:
-A player 'home base' map, which they could decorate as they wish and would start at each time they logged in. This couldn't be visited by other players, but could serve as a sort of playground for them to design at will and give them somewhere to just relax.
-Another type of more valuable resource, perhaps one that's only gifted in a few rare occasions or could be bought for a highish number of coins. This could be used to do special things and would be something that people would really strive to get. Perhaps it could allow them to keep worlds completely safe, or perhaps it could be just used to buy certain types of stuff for the home base.
-Some sort of threat. Currently there isn't anything that can really damage the player, and it'd be good if there was some sort of threat. It'd be good to see some interesting mechanics for this, instead of just a few random monsters put down.
Here's an idea I had:
The chaos causes monstrous shadows to appear, these appear as you gain more coins (to stop beginners having to deal with them). These could start off randomly pacing around like sort of random ghosts, but could then get more purposeful in following you/attacking you as you gained more and more coins. Walking into them would cause damage (or a loss of coins or however you want to deal with it). These could then be negated/set back with help of the valuable resource. This would also happen on any world other than 'safe worlds' which could be designated with the valuable resource or some other way.
This would add a level of complexity as you'd need to balance coins with the valuable resource, and would also make 'safe worlds' and 'non-safe worlds' a thing - which I'd quite like to see!
Lastly, I would perhaps suggest changing coins to something else - coins are very mario, and I don't really see them fitting in with the chaos theme.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 20, 2014, 12:00:21 am
I'm really glad you're adding more game elements!
This sounds like a really good system, although I can imagine players could get annoyed with everything being permanently lost and feeling like they need to keep playing just so their world doesn't get deleted.
While it could be an issue if deletion happens to frequently or fast, a world will only be deleted if (A) its creator stops playing/earning coins AND (B) people stop visiting the world. Coins earned by a world go directly toward that world's upkeep - if a player makes a decent creation and someone else links to it and players start using it as a passageway, it will remain as long as players keep using it. Even without an official 'safe' option, once this happens enough the chances of a world being deleted are virtually nil.
Possibly the worlds could get 'corrupted' instead of deleted, you could delete some random blocks/change some and just make it a mess. This could be undone with a certain number of coins perhaps.
Don't like it. The complexity of the world building system means that changing things randomly would do more than just make the world a mess, it could lead to the world becoming completely non-functional or even cause crashes. Besides, the point of the deletion system (besides being something to do with coins) is to free up database memory that is being used by junk worlds - messing them up even more without deleting them would be counterproductive.
A player 'home base' map, which they could decorate as they wish and would start at each time they logged in. This couldn't be visited by other players, but could serve as a sort of playground for them to design at will and give them somewhere to just relax.
Not a bad idea. You can already make private worlds by just not giving them a public entrance, and travel to them/test them through 'My Gates', but allowing the player to 'escape' directly to a designated location (one that, perhaps, has links to their own favorite worlds) is certainly an option.
Another type of more valuable resource, perhaps one that's only gifted in a few rare occasions or could be bought for a highish number of coins. This could be used to do special things and would be something that people would really strive to get. Perhaps it could allow them to keep worlds completely safe, or perhaps it could be just used to buy certain types of stuff for the home base.
Hmm... well, players will be able to make their own permanent items, that can be used for whatever they want within the confines of that world. Some sort of 'shop' system could work though. Or perhaps, just as coins a player gains are reduced from the total amount they would give to the world on exiting, coins a player spends could add extra to that world's upkeep. There would have to be some means of ensuring that world builders wouldn't simply place hidden tiles that steal coins from whoever walked over them, though...
It's hard to think of special in-game items that could be 'purchased', since everything that appears in the game, players will be able to make themselves! The only real resource is the time and effort it takes to build them.
Some sort of threat. Currently there isn't anything that can really damage the player, and it'd be good if there was some sort of threat. It'd be good to see some interesting mechanics for this, instead of just a few random monsters put down.
You can actually make enemies, although you need to use the 'advanced' mode. In the enemy sprite's 'collision' function (which runs whenever the sprite steps onto another sprite's tile), make a conditional block that checks if the other sprite in the collision is the player (if @ == *), and if so, make the player jump to wherever you want on the board - back to start, back to the beginning of the room, or make them jump with 'collides' active and have them land on a sprite that will transport them to another room. You can even set a global variable to use as hit points and run a check that will do something different if they all run out. It's very open-ended, although I can imagine that enemies are something players might want to have in the basic function editor.
The chaos causes monstrous shadows to appear, these appear as you gain more coins (to stop beginners having to deal with them). These could start off randomly pacing around like sort of random ghosts, but could then get more purposeful in following you/attacking you as you gained more and more coins. Walking into them would cause damage (or a loss of coins or however you want to deal with it). These could then be negated/set back with help of the valuable resource. This would also happen on any world other than 'safe worlds' which could be designated with the valuable resource or some other way.
Don't like it - see above for the reasons against having the program mess around with other people's worlds. The 'plot' is more of a framing element to describe why the coin/deletion system operates the way it does, but it should remain strictly meta. If world builders want to use it as a part of their world's story, that is up to them.
Lastly, I would perhaps suggest changing coins to something else - coins are very mario, and I don't really see them fitting in with the chaos theme.
Yeeeah... I was kind of excusing myself because coins are also a generic symbol (in Tarot, anyway) for the stability of the physical world, buuut... mostly because I just couldn't think of anything better. Of course, world builders can make them look like whatever they want.
Post by: Armok on May 20, 2014, 10:34:06 am
(from ontology, ontological, utility->utilion photo->photon, etc. )
Default spite: glowing star-like whisp/glowing orb.
Post by: Retropunch on May 20, 2014, 11:54:55 am
My idea would be that the monsters were generated randomly - not something that was put specifically into maps, and be quite rare. Possibly it could only be on worlds specified as 'unsafe' by world builders?
As far as a more valuable resource, I just thought 'crystals' or something would be good. They'd basically just be like super-coins, but be a lot more valuable and rare and not be able to be just granted by the world builder. I like Onton instead of coins - anything really.
Although I realize you're trying to keep the story very meta/unobtrusive, I do think there needs to be more cohesive elements. Especially whilst things are starting up, as I think a lot of people will come to it and just not know what to build/why they're building.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 20, 2014, 12:24:38 pm
The first worlds created will probably have a big part in creating a cohesive mythology for the universe overall. Looking at things as they are now, those worlds will probably be mostly mine. Or maybe not!
Randomly generated monsters, if put in, would probably involve a whole new RPG-esque 'random encounter' combat system, rather than roaming around, and would be customizable, naturally. But since a lot of the game is meant to be open-ended, people should be able to make peaceful, non-combat worlds if they so choose, and forcing monsters into them, even when unstable, wouldn't be a good idea. I want people who prefer casual exploration games to feel as much at home in the BW universe as fans of more 'gamey' games.
My intent is that the deletion process should be slow enough that it would be basically impossible to lose your world if anyone (whether the builder or players) cared at all about its survival. Perhaps there could be some cosmetic 'warping' effect for a little while before the world is actually destroyed, as a warning (and a hint for travelers to donate to the world's upkeep if they so choose.) But if you are still worried about losing a world, you can simply copy the XML data and save it on your own computer, then upload it again later.
EDIT: I suppose that if a world builder wanted to, they could allow randomly generated elements to be created by the game itself. Maybe players who felt like creating monsters instead of worlds could make them independently and set them loose on the universe, and anyone who checked the 'allow foreign random encounters' option could let them into their own world at random...
Post by: Retropunch on May 20, 2014, 12:47:35 pm
Onton has a nice sound to it, though I don't really like the wisp idea... it should be something you could reasonably expect to find in chests, given as rewards for quests, etc. Although thinking about it now, it doesn't even have to have a real name or appearance in-game. It's just a number that can be modified through the script... and the variable that controls it is simply $*.
My intent is that the deletion process should be slow enough that it would be basically impossible to lose your world if anyone (whether the builder or players) cared at all about its survival. Perhaps there could be some cosmetic 'warping' effect for a little while before the world is actually destroyed, as a warning (and a hint for travelers to donate to the world's upkeep if they so choose.) But if you are still worried about losing a world, you can simply copy the XML data and save it on your own computer, then upload it again later.
EDIT: I suppose that if a world builder wanted to, they could allow randomly generated elements to be created by the game itself. Maybe players who felt like creating monsters instead of worlds could make them independently and set them loose on the universe, and anyone who checked the 'allow foreign random encounters' option could let them into their own world at random...
I like the idea of warping before vanishing completely a lot. I like the idea of a 'allow random monsters' button and completely agree that it should be for the most part peaceful. I'm not a fan of RPG-esque random encounters/battlescreen (ala Final Fantasy) type battles myself, and feel it'd either require a TON of work to get polished, or just generally be not very exciting. I'd prefer some basic sort of zelda type monsters for now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 20, 2014, 03:37:27 pm
In any event, a combat system is still some distance away, and quite a bit is possible with the system as it already is. I plan on Protea having examples of wandering dungeon monsters, a dueling minigame, and a reasonably epic boss fight, using nothing more than the current function system. The question has less to do with what should be possible and more to do with what should be easy.
Post by: Armok on May 21, 2014, 09:59:08 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 21, 2014, 11:13:10 pm
Maybe make it slightly more general, random sprites that could be anything rather than combat opponents specifically. like, you could make a trader that wanders around different worlds, or even a world that can only be accessed through a portal that appears randomly and unpredictably in any other world.
This is a good idea. I still don't know how best to pull it off but it is definitely a good idea. No reason why random encounters have to be hostile.
Post by: Isngrim on May 22, 2014, 12:51:02 am
dont know if this is server end or my comp,but when i try to access a world firefox freezes up
Speaking of zelda style combat,has anyone thought to do a zelda world?
will it be,or is it,possible to add dialogue options?
edit*
its arx's world that keeps crashing it
Post by: Arx on May 22, 2014, 01:17:23 am
Ed: Bug confirmed. Editing the world works fine, but attempting to load it causes FF to freeze up. I'm thinking memory bug of some kind?
I think Protea is sort of Zelda themed in parts, and dialogue is currently possible with sprites (silent protagonist dialogue right now).
Post by: Isngrim on May 22, 2014, 02:59:24 am
currently working on an idea i had,basically TeS thieves guild meets Zelda.more serious then zelda,less serious then TeS(except maybe Daggerfall),zelda style puzzles focused around getting a thief into castles and out again. just need to find a good tileset.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 22, 2014, 06:21:10 am
Good grief. That makes it at least twice that it's bugged out. I'll take a look from my side, but I think IF'll have to do something.
Ed: Bug confirmed. Editing the world works fine, but attempting to load it causes FF to freeze up. I'm thinking memory bug of some kind?
I think Protea is sort of Zelda themed in parts, and dialogue is currently possible with sprites (silent protagonist dialogue right now).
There was a bug like this earlier, but I thought I fixed it. Have you done a hard reload?
Is it just your world? It could be that one of the recent changes to the code might not have been backwards-compatible, hopefully it's something minor. Check if you're starting point is placed on top of something problematic, touch events trigger on startup where they didn't before.
Conversation is linear now, but dialogue trees are planned.
EDIT: Never mind, I figured out the bug... it's caused by trying to pause (or clicking outside the window) in a room without sound after visiting a room with music playing. Probably related to the game trying to pause music that doesn't exist. Shouldn't take too long to fix.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 23, 2014, 03:40:39 am
The pausing crash bug has been fixed, although music does not pause now when you pause the game. You can, however, change the volume using the plus and minus keys. I'll work on fixing that up so it works as intended.
A bug related to the direction NPCs face when the room is loaded has been fixed as well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 23, 2014, 10:37:28 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 26, 2014, 03:40:51 pm
Post by: Armok on May 26, 2014, 09:23:08 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 27, 2014, 09:13:34 am
maybe for debug, have a popup pop up when you enter a world that would have been deleted? as in, one of the shitty single line default browser ones you should never leve in fro to long, but are fine for this kind of debuging.
That's a good idea. Or possibly have an extreme corruption effect instead. I've been experimenting with various visual effects (screen shaking, fading colors, etc.) that could be both used by players or appear in worlds that are on the verge of being destroyed.
Post by: Armok on May 27, 2014, 06:16:58 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2014, 03:40:36 am
that'd take actual time to program, wich it's not worth for a placeholder like this. I meant literlay a single like in OnEnterRoom, "if(assignedCoins=0) alert (http://www.w3schools.com/js/js_popup.asp)("If it was enabled, this would would have been deleted!")"
It's not a placeholder, it's the final system, just without the deleting. I suppose I could make a placeholder message, but at this rate I should be done with the effects before there are enough coins circulating to start reducing them anyway.
Post by: Armok on May 28, 2014, 08:41:37 pm
Post by: Alestance on June 09, 2014, 01:02:55 pm
I do have some songs that I can share right now. Here's a few:
http://tindeck.com/listen/slps
http://tindeck.com/listen/jsar
http://tindeck.com/listen/stvv
http://tindeck.com/listen/tyex
http://tindeck.com/listen/juky
http://tindeck.com/listen/ddok
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 10, 2014, 02:19:55 pm
I was just thinking of checking this out again just to see what this has to offer and it seems like the servers are down. CTRL+F5 didn't do anything. Anyway I might be able to offer my spriting and music talent. How large are tiles? I'll put together something by Friday so you could see if I fit.
I do have some songs that I can share right now. Here's a few:
http://tindeck.com/listen/slps
http://tindeck.com/listen/jsar
http://tindeck.com/listen/stvv
http://tindeck.com/listen/tyex
http://tindeck.com/listen/juky
http://tindeck.com/listen/ddok
These are very good! Does the site allow direct audio streaming?
As for the tiles, they are 32x32, although sprites can technically be any size the typical character sprite should be around 32x48. Tiles are the bigger issue, though. Mostly I think that the typical tilemap should be fairly simple (so that it isn't overly difficult to put together a decent-looking map) and versatile. Protea's mountain area is a good example of the kind of geographical formations that should be possible with them.
Post by: Alestance on June 10, 2014, 03:19:19 pm
These are very good! Does the site allow direct audio streaming?Thanks! I've never needed it to directly stream audio, but if I were to wager a guess, mine would be "no".
As for the tiles, they are 32x32, although sprites can technically be any size the typical character sprite should be around 32x48. Tiles are the bigger issue, though. Mostly I think that the typical tilemap should be fairly simple (so that it isn't overly difficult to put together a decent-looking map) and versatile. Protea's mountain area is a good example of the kind of geographical formations that should be possible with them.Ah, nice. I'll be able to get something together as a test sometime by Friday. My issue right now is that I cannot play the game. Trying to log in, travel to different worlds, etc just hang on "waiting to server".
I do have a small example of my tile art, but it might be less than impressive given what I was trying to do:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 10, 2014, 04:38:08 pm
I'm not really sure what causes the login issues, it's working fine for me and I haven't had a server failure in quite some time. I know some people started out with login problems which later improved. It might be related to location but so far I haven't found any pattern.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
Post by: Alestance on June 11, 2014, 09:27:55 am
Since my access to the game is very limited, I cannot test these things on my own.
Post by: Arx on June 11, 2014, 09:29:42 am
Post by: Alestance on June 11, 2014, 11:30:27 am
Transparency is treated as transparent, but #FFFFFF is rendered as transparent as well. I don't think there is a preferred image format.Thanks for telling me.
One last question for now. Does the game handle animated gifs as tiles, or would the user need to use sprites to make animated tiles?
Here's what I've got so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Arx on June 11, 2014, 12:58:43 pm
Your tiles look nice!
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 11, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
There are quite a number of online sprite makers available for characters so I don't see that as being a real problem (mostly I like to use Charas-project, although the sprites need to be enlarged in order to fit).
Post by: Alestance on June 11, 2014, 05:02:08 pm
There are four conventions for sprite animations: Single-frame, RPG Maker VX convention, Charas convention, and a continuous animated strip.Well I won't be making character sprites any time soon. I'm going to stick with making background tiles for now. Hope you can figure out what the issue is regarding people not being able to connect, because it'd be a real shame to be someone working on official stuff for it and at the same time being incapable of seeing how its being used.
There are quite a number of online sprite makers available for characters so I don't see that as being a real problem (mostly I like to use Charas-project, although the sprites need to be enlarged in order to fit).
According to the development console, I'm getting the following:
"Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found)" on "http://boundworlds.com/crossdomain.xml" if that helps. This occurs when I attempt to use doors or the blobs with functions.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 11, 2014, 11:13:04 pm
I finally figured out the problem. Sometimes firefox sticks a "www." into bookmarks. Apparently, boundworlds does not like that.It is also possible that using https as opposed to http might be a problem.
I need a more detailed explanation, then I can post it in the troubleshooting section.
Post by: Alestance on June 12, 2014, 02:38:22 am
That reminds me! Someone else was having similar problems and figured out how to fix them, sending me this message:I finally figured out the problem. Sometimes firefox sticks a "www." into bookmarks. Apparently, boundworlds does not like that.It is also possible that using https as opposed to http might be a problem.
I need a more detailed explanation, then I can post it in the troubleshooting section.
I can confirm that this has allowed me to use the game.
Post by: Arx on July 04, 2014, 02:06:55 am
I seem to have a balance of $232. Attempting to deposit any amount of this into my world results in it depositing $0.
Can I be enlightened?
EDIT: Auugh why are the Vaults such a bug magnet? The game crashes if I try to enter the world.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 07, 2014, 07:37:40 am
So how does this new coin system work? I've finally got a bit of time to look at my world again.
I seem to have a balance of $232. Attempting to deposit any amount of this into my world results in it depositing $0.
Can I be enlightened?
EDIT: Auugh why are the Vaults such a bug magnet? The game crashes if I try to enter the world.
It seems that your world's file name had a space at the end of it, which I suspect was causing the problem. I fixed it, so it should work now. This was probably causing the coin bug as well.
EDIT: No, that's not it. Weird, there's something about your world that really messes up the system. I'm going to see if I can find it.
EDIT 2: Hm, I think it might simply be the size of the world. I can't get into Protea either through the public gate selector, although the 'My Gates' menu works all right. Kind of a major bug there, I'll try and fix it.
EDIT 3: Found it. There was a game-breaking bug in the code related to finding gates with the same name but in different rooms of the same world. But it's fixed now. Arxworld should now be accessible through the public gate selector and should gain coins properly as well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 25, 2015, 12:55:05 am
I fixed it. Maybe I'll resume work on Protea...
Post by: DragonDePlatino on February 26, 2015, 09:19:55 pm
One thing I really don't like, though, is how disjointed the whole experience feels. I'm aware the game is supposed to have a patchwork feel, but I don't feel that the very general meta-plot does a very good job of explaining that. Instead, why not go for a dream theme like Yume Nikki? That would be a perfect explanation to tie the whole game together!
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 27, 2015, 02:05:52 am
Barring that, I'll put some meta lore into Protea. I just finished the first 'dungeon', so it's coming along.
I also added the ability to read some variables of sprites directly in the advanced functions. _x and _y will return a sprite' current position.
Post by: Retropunch on March 01, 2015, 07:12:36 am
The plot will probably evolve over time as people add their own interpretations into their worlds. It's all kind of abstract right now.
I really don't want this to come across as belligerent, but that just doesn't seem to be happening. I really like the idea of a kind of 'emergent story', but you have to draw people in for them to want to commit to adding their own stuff. Truthfully, I doubt graphics or mechanics are going to draw people in at the moment, so the only thing left is story/atmosphere.
I'd recommend setting aside a few days to make all sorts of story and lore up (which is good fun!) and then creating a fully fleshed out world for people to explore - at the very least it'll be a nice adventure game, but I'm sure it would encourage people to add on their own areas and stories.
Post by: Arx on March 01, 2015, 07:17:55 am
Truthfully, I doubt graphics or mechanics are going to draw people in at the moment, so the only thing left is story/atmosphere.
I'd just like to note that they draw me in massively, but I don't actually have time for this right now.
A more coherent story would not hurt, certainly. I don't know how many others are as excited by the possibilities offered as I am.
Post by: Retropunch on March 01, 2015, 07:27:18 am
Truthfully, I doubt graphics or mechanics are going to draw people in at the moment, so the only thing left is story/atmosphere.
I'd just like to note that they draw me in massively, but I don't actually have time for this right now.
A more coherent story would not hurt, certainly. I don't know how many others are as excited by the possibilities offered as I am.
The graphics and mechanics are nice but, in the nicest possible way, they're not really anything special. Standard JRPG sprites and movement isn't something that there is lack of, and with no combat or 'action' there's not a great deal to differentiate it from other JRPG adventures. Again, nothing wrong with that, but just that I can't see those things alone would make people stay with BoundWorlds.
Being able to build your own worlds to share with others online is a great selling point which is really different, but I think someone needs to get the ball rolling big time before others will jump in.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 01, 2015, 10:32:06 am
I've been expanding on Protea. Already have one (admittedly small) dungeon down and have been putting together the next area, which will be a 'Lost Woods' puzzle, i.e. an endless maze that you can only get through by knowing the pattern. Finding that pattern will probably involve playing some other minigame type things. I'm going to try and showcase as many unusual mechanics as possible; although the basic functionality of BW is pretty plain the advanced functions offer a lot of possibilities.
On the other hand... since the main purpose of BW is supposed to be on large amounts of small, connected 'dream areas' rather than large, cohesive worlds, maybe I should set an example by making several small worlds instead of focusing on Protea specifically? I guess I could make some small ones now and connect them later.
Post by: Arx on March 01, 2015, 10:38:25 am
Post by: Armok on March 01, 2015, 08:04:48 pm
Another thing to consider is adding a bunch more fun default behaviors to the player sprite. Mostly, this'd be persistent variables and a bunch of guidelines on how worlds are supposed to interact with them. Oh, and a "decrement variable on each step" thing for hunger, energy, etc.
Hmm, ooh, idea: another thing that might make things more interesting rapidly; have different "types" of interaction, which means basically having several different keys tied to it and passing which one was used. You already have the framework in the form of touch events and such. Also really cool would be simple animations that are different for each one. Oh, and to have ones that can trigger anywhere the player is not just on specific sprites. This'd also go very well with the items system once you make that, having one (or more) types be "use item" slots that use the item name rather than the key pressed as the type. To start with I'd designate the first few types as "interact", "attack", "look/examine", and "pull/push", like with the above variables these names being only guidelines on how they should be used and not a difference in behavior programming wise.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 02, 2015, 11:00:39 am
I might make an option to tie a numeric variable to a visible meter, though. Right now, there isn't any way of checking a variable without running a function that displays it somewhere. (Although some clever use of creating and deleting sprites in a row would be a way of getting around this in the meantime).
While making different kinds of interactions would be simple enough, I always found games with different types of interaction more distracting than fun. 99% of the time you're just guessing which interaction is the 'right' one to progress the plot, or checking what kind of wacky easter eggs the programmers have hidden in a particular 'wrong' interaction. It's probably a holdover from old text-based adventure games where you would need to examine things to figure out what they are, which would explain why it has largely disappeared in more modern games. A single button to talk to friends, attack enemies, interact with machinery, search cavities, and examine interesting inanimate objects is enough, I think. And BW already has two (checking and touching). Using items might be an option, though, once items become a thing.
As for the 'starting' areas, that's all up for change. I'm throwing together a bunch of mini-worlds just to see what 'sticks', and I guess whichever ones work best will be placed near the beginning room.
You can make persistent 'looping' effects by using a 'master' sprite that has a function that calls itself when complete, and you can target the player sprite's position with a 'get _x of *' or 'get _y of *'. Custom animations are planned, but in the meantime you can trick the game into animating a sprite by creating and destroying sprites with different graphics.
Post by: Armok on March 02, 2015, 05:18:04 pm
Post by: Retropunch on March 02, 2015, 05:46:43 pm
I don't think I'll add too many default counters, at least until there's a base combat system. It's easy enough, using persistent global variables, for world builders to create their own where they are relevant. For instance, Protea's dungeons use an HP counter, and there will be a desert area in which you will have to deal with persistent thirst. There isn't really any reason to carry information like that between worlds, (most worlds would just have a healing area near the entrance anyway) and it would get in the way of the 'free exploration' theme.
While the 'free' exploration theme is good, even the most enthusiastic player needs something to aim for, whether it's an end goal or a constant goal. Whilst games like Myst and Riven are pure exploration, they have a defined end goal to work towards, whereas boundworlds is endless.
I'd suggest an implementation of global survival systems (maybe basic ones like food to start with), as they are easy to implement and create a good continuous goal - it's also something that can be easily worked into a reward system but doesn't conflict with the idea of endless exploration. You could then expand on this with things like a 'sanity' system which could cause apparitions if it was low, and other such systems that might link with combat.
I know this might sound like a departure from the original idea, but I think it could really give people an incentive to explore to find the resources they need.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 02, 2015, 07:01:44 pm
I don't think I'll add too many default counters, at least until there's a base combat system. It's easy enough, using persistent global variables, for world builders to create their own where they are relevant. For instance, Protea's dungeons use an HP counter, and there will be a desert area in which you will have to deal with persistent thirst. There isn't really any reason to carry information like that between worlds, (most worlds would just have a healing area near the entrance anyway) and it would get in the way of the 'free exploration' theme.
While the 'free' exploration theme is good, even the most enthusiastic player needs something to aim for, whether it's an end goal or a constant goal. Whilst games like Myst and Riven are pure exploration, they have a defined end goal to work towards, whereas boundworlds is endless.
I'd suggest an implementation of global survival systems (maybe basic ones like food to start with), as they are easy to implement and create a good continuous goal - it's also something that can be easily worked into a reward system but doesn't conflict with the idea of endless exploration. You could then expand on this with things like a 'sanity' system which could cause apparitions if it was low, and other such systems that might link with combat.
I know this might sound like a departure from the original idea, but I think it could really give people an incentive to explore to find the resources they need.
Hmm... Well, I could make gates that require you to have collected a minimum number of ontons to enter. These could lead to secret areas (and associated plot developments or minigames) that are only accessible to players who had either made reasonably popular worlds, or had spent enough time exploring and solving challenges to collect the required amount. Other world builders could do the same; you simply run a check for the $* variable.
EDIT: The $** variable, actually. $* refers to the ontons collected in the current world in the current session and can be edited through the code, $** refers to the total amount.
Post by: Retropunch on March 03, 2015, 01:39:06 am
I don't think I'll add too many default counters, at least until there's a base combat system. It's easy enough, using persistent global variables, for world builders to create their own where they are relevant. For instance, Protea's dungeons use an HP counter, and there will be a desert area in which you will have to deal with persistent thirst. There isn't really any reason to carry information like that between worlds, (most worlds would just have a healing area near the entrance anyway) and it would get in the way of the 'free exploration' theme.
While the 'free' exploration theme is good, even the most enthusiastic player needs something to aim for, whether it's an end goal or a constant goal. Whilst games like Myst and Riven are pure exploration, they have a defined end goal to work towards, whereas boundworlds is endless.
I'd suggest an implementation of global survival systems (maybe basic ones like food to start with), as they are easy to implement and create a good continuous goal - it's also something that can be easily worked into a reward system but doesn't conflict with the idea of endless exploration. You could then expand on this with things like a 'sanity' system which could cause apparitions if it was low, and other such systems that might link with combat.
I know this might sound like a departure from the original idea, but I think it could really give people an incentive to explore to find the resources they need.
Hmm... Well, I could make gates that require you to have collected a minimum number of ontons to enter. These could lead to secret areas (and associated plot developments or minigames) that are only accessible to players who had either made reasonably popular worlds, or had spent enough time exploring and solving challenges to collect the required amount. Other world builders could do the same; you simply run a check for the $* variable.
This is a great idea - it'd make the currency more valuable and give the player something to work towards.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 03, 2015, 05:29:03 pm
Post by: Arx on March 04, 2015, 10:45:37 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 04, 2015, 11:10:35 am
I'm putting together a new central area as per the various suggestions. The 'Hub' is now going for a more mysterious, empty feel at the beginning, with signs pointing to the different areas. There will be a city near the beginning, which will begin deserted but as you collect ontons (which I'm mostly calling 'energy from the Void') more people will show up.
There is also an area called the 'Palace of Void', which might be an exploration area or a multi-level dungeon that uses your total ontons as your starting health or something, I haven't worked out the details yet because I want to make something that is intriguing, challenging, and yet does not alienate casual gamers. There will be some kind of lore going on there as well, which is unlocked as you explore or build worlds.
There is also a Guardian of the palace. I couldn't tell whether he was creepier with or without eyes. Maybe a little too creepy, I have to work out exactly what kind of atmosphere would be best.
Post by: Armok on March 04, 2015, 09:26:09 pm
Post by: Arx on March 05, 2015, 10:43:35 am
Also, is there a gateway which goes to the new main area? The exit of my world currently goes to the old one.
Edit: Also, open editing some of the chests to contain ontons, I discovered that this is vulnerable to the good ol' "leave the room, come back in and re-loot it" exploit. I don't want to have to create global variables for every single chest, but I don't want infinite free money either.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 05, 2015, 03:10:33 pm
It is worth noting that no matter how many ontons someone collects, there is a cap on how much they can actually take out of a world, which is the number of seconds they spent in it.
I plan on using the old gate as a new area, so that shouldn't be such an issue. I do suggest in general to make the edge of your world and the location of its public gate an 'atrium' of sorts using the default tiles, to make transition between worlds feel more natural.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 06, 2015, 08:02:27 am
As with most global values, persistent rooms will reset whenever you change worlds.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 07, 2015, 03:34:57 pm
When the player enters a 'traceable' gate and travels to a 'returning' gate, they can re-enter the gate to return to the same point they exited through. So if two different world builders create gates leading to the same world, explorers can retrace their steps to return to the same place they came from. HOWEVER, this only works if the room is not reloaded. So rooms with 'returning' gates should be persistent, and if the explorer travels all the way to a new world, the previous world's connection will be lost. The builder making the room with the returning gate can select a 'default' target in case the player arrived through a gate that was not traceable, or the room was reloaded.
This feature should probably not be abused too much within a world, but it is a good idea to put these at the (public) entrances and exits of your worlds.
Post by: Armok on March 07, 2015, 06:25:56 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 08, 2015, 07:34:07 am
Wait, you implemented that feature without realizing how perfect it is for making stuff like interiors of buildings only once, or fractal labyrinths,or all sort of other stuff within a world? Just make the actual rom once, and it'll remeebr "wich one" you "are in".
Huh. Yeah, I guess it could be used for that, although I prefer to use advanced functions to generate fractal labyrinths (see the Mysterious Forest area). You could even make the rooms be a little different by setting persistent variables before the player enters and having them generate different sprites. You wouldn't be able to make any of the sub-rooms persistent, but I guess it could be useful for some situations.
Post by: Armok on March 08, 2015, 05:43:57 pm
The persistent variables thing could be especially neat if you do the whole thing iterateivelly, and the thing that changes is what sub-room and internal similar portal leads to.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 14, 2015, 12:19:49 pm
The same data storage system will be used, of course, so anything built using the original version will be fully compatible with the new one. I'll be able to add some new options, though, like the ability to switch between regular gameplay and editing mode directly without having to save and walk to the Universal Gate every time, to make editing less tedious.
I'll do this gradually, in between working on Protea and other example worlds.
I might also add some code in from another unfinished game project that never really took off, the Lotus Project, which was supposed to blend together qualities of adventure, strategy, business, and other genres seamlessly, but kind of fell short because the map and plot generator never worked right. But if players build their own maps and stories... on the other hand, maybe that wouldn't work well, seeing as how the concept of BW doesn't lend itself well to saving. I don't know, I'll have to think about it.
Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about how the game could be improved on a fundamental level?
If anyone was planning on building worlds for the current version, don't let this stop you. As I said before, I'm keeping the same data structure and basic gameplay, so everything will be compatible. (With the possible exception of adding in the ability to walk diagonally).
Post by: Retropunch on March 14, 2015, 02:02:44 pm
Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about how the game could be improved on a fundamental level?
I've said it before, but I really think it needs to have more 'structure' to it. Whether that be survival or RPG mechanisms (or anything else) I don't think it matters, but it needs to have a driving force to make the player want to keep coming back for more.
Make the player have to work to build stuff (collect ontons or something), or make them have to explore to survive. On from this, I'd also encourage you to have some sort of 'threat'. I like the idea of sort of 'demons of the warp' that try to stop you from building things to keep it formless.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 14, 2015, 02:47:22 pm
Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about how the game could be improved on a fundamental level?
I've said it before, but I really think it needs to have more 'structure' to it. Whether that be survival or RPG mechanisms (or anything else) I don't think it matters, but it needs to have a driving force to make the player want to keep coming back for more.
Make the player have to work to build stuff (collect ontons or something), or make them have to explore to survive. On from this, I'd also encourage you to have some sort of 'threat'. I like the idea of sort of 'demons of the warp' that try to stop you from building things to keep it formless.
Yeah, I've been working along those lines. Basically making the 'hub' more story-oriented and less fourth-wall-breaking, and having the plot advance as you collect ontons. The hub is still just a world, though, I'm not 'cheating' or adding anything into the hub that anyone else couldn't put into their own world if they wanted to. I actually have a lore outline that I'm keeping hidden for now, but the basic 'overgame' structure is like this:
New Player enters at the Nexus of Creation, jumps up and reaches the Hub and travels to the City of Acopolis.
City is mostly deserted, player explores a bit and discovers the Palace of Void, but is barred from entry.
Player continues on to the Sky Road, which branches out into player-made worlds. The first of these worlds are Bethalom, a rather philosophical dream-themed area, and Protea, a typical adventure game that has a bit of lore concerning the creation of worlds and how they are all linked together through the Void, etc. Player collects ontons by exploring these worlds.
Player ultimately returns to the Hub. Acopolis is more populated at this point (the population is based on how many ontons the player collected) and the concept of world-building is introduced and explained. World builders in general can accumulate more ontons quickly than they could by exploring (though exactly how much more may need to be adjusted).
Player builds worlds, and these worlds will be linked to the Sky Road (I will have to do this manually for the first few worlds, after this anyone already on the network can add gates to new worlds they enjoy. World builders will receive a bonus for linking to new worlds, which should help expand the network.)
After collecting enough ontons, the Palace of Void will open up. This will be an action-puzzle area that gradually drains your energy as you explore, your total starting energy is based on how many ontons you collected. The 'real' lore will be revealed as you explore the palace and ascend the Tower at the center. (I have a basic description of the secret lore written down, but I have to work out exactly how 'complicated' it should be.)
Reaching the top of the tower and confronting the 'ultimate secret' of the BWverse is the end of the 'official' game, but doing so will generally require the player to create a bunch of their own worlds, since accumulating that many ontons by pure exploration would take a ridiculous amount of time.
Not all of this is done, but some of it is. Nobody's going to be reaching the top of the Tower anytime soon at this rate anyway, haha.
Anyway, I was talking more about 'fundamental' changes, stuff that could be considered when rewriting the game's basic code.
Post by: WillowLuman on March 14, 2015, 03:07:03 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 14, 2015, 03:22:10 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 14, 2015, 04:03:18 pm
Post by: WillowLuman on March 14, 2015, 04:07:48 pm
Post by: Armok on March 15, 2015, 12:13:26 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 15, 2015, 04:00:17 am
Hmm, one HUGE change this rewrite could make: unpin the player and maybe even NPCs from the grid. Smoother movement, hit boxes of different sizes, diagonal moment but pressing two directions at once.
I've explored the possibility of removing the invisible grid a couple of times, and it would actually be fairly trivial from a programming standpoint (it is arguably harder to move sprites around on a grid than it would be to just give them XY velocities and be done with it). The reason why I chose a grid has less to do with the game's internal program and more to do with area construction.
Consider this: you have a tile that initiates a cutscene. If the player is not tied to a grid, they can potentially be anywhere within a 3x3 tile box upon making contact with the tile. This means that the scripter might need to add in contingencies for the possibility that the player might not be lined up with whatever it is they are trying to do. While this seems trivial, it also applies to things like NPCs that need to be in position to do whatever, sliding blocks in puzzles, and so on. Giving a command to 'walk 3 tiles west when sprite B stands on this tile' is much simpler than 'move 96 pixels west, adjusted for wherever sprite B happens to be positioned on contact.' Then there's all kinds of other technical problems associated with pixel-based movement: getting stuck in walls if you are moving too fast, randomly-moving sprites jamming each other into inescapable locks, having trouble lining yourself up with a one-tile wide corridor or switch, and so on.
Since the main emphasis of BW is supposed to be on worldbuilding and exploration, rather than action, I restricted movement to a grid, making things easier on worldbuilders. There are, however, some possible compromises, like allowing diagonal movement, which makes movement feel more natural while still maintaining the design conveniences of a grid, although this means sprites would need diagonal animations to look right, and the most popular sprite-making programs (Charas, RPG Maker VX sprite makers) typically do not include diagonal motion. There's also the possibility of making it a selectable option for worldbuilders, but that would make the game feel even more disjointed...
Lotus has grid-based movement with diagonal motion that shifts into a free-motion fighting game when you engage an enemy, but I'm not entirely sure if I want to use that.
Post by: Spiderking50 on June 15, 2015, 12:39:54 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 15, 2015, 07:04:13 pm
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on June 17, 2015, 03:03:12 am
Post by: Arx on June 17, 2015, 05:07:22 am
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on June 17, 2015, 04:55:45 pm
EDIT: Oops, nevermind. I wasn't logged in.
Post by: Nahere on June 17, 2015, 05:47:33 pm
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on June 18, 2015, 01:39:49 am
Spoiler: Screenshots (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 22, 2015, 01:17:50 pm
Heh. I'm going to have to check these out.
Post by: Spiderking50 on June 22, 2015, 03:58:14 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2015, 12:46:47 am
Hey, i couldn't make an account a while back, is that fixed?
It seems to be working fine.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on August 11, 2016, 12:49:35 pm
This looked fun.. its no longer alive.. )=
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 11, 2016, 01:15:46 pm
Right now I'm dealing mainly with a non-game project (although one that is inspired by DF, interestingly enough), so I'm not sure when I'll get the chance to start this up again. See my avatar quote though.
Post by: StarWars1981 on August 11, 2016, 07:09:17 pm
What you probably need is a questing system - more NPC behaviors, advanced ones, some basic form of interesting combat (See Realm of the Mad God for an idea of this), and artifacts. Stuff like armor, weaponry, random bits of treasure items (not coins, valuable items - goblets, gems, Persian rugs, paintings, tapestries, whatever else you can think of - lucky horseshoes anyone?), monsters, princesses-/princes-worth-nothing-and-got-themselves-captured, and anything else that can be quested over (and has physical form; although random "energies" could also be involved in this, trapped in a scroll or whatnot).
Other than that, very cool idea. I'd play it.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on August 13, 2016, 10:31:14 am
Joining the Necroposting. Looked like fun, if you had more options in your catalog-thingy, and found a way to build a larger playerbase, that could get interesting.I agree, yes, we want to play ^_^
What you probably need is a questing system - more NPC behaviors, advanced ones, some basic form of interesting combat (See Realm of the Mad God for an idea of this), and artifacts. Stuff like armor, weaponry, random bits of treasure items (not coins, valuable items - goblets, gems, Persian rugs, paintings, tapestries, whatever else you can think of - lucky horseshoes anyone?), monsters, princesses-/princes-worth-nothing-and-got-themselves-captured, and anything else that can be quested over (and has physical form; although random "energies" could also be involved in this, trapped in a scroll or whatnot).
Other than that, very cool idea. I'd play it.
Post by: Retropunch on August 20, 2016, 12:31:19 pm
I've recently been playing a lot of starbound, and I quite like the game loop of building and crafting to be able to be kitted out for further adventures, and those adventures giving you access to more stuff to build and craft. I'm not saying that it should be like starbound at all, just that I think a reincarnation with a solid 'game loop' is a must to get people interested.
I'm honestly not sure what, but every needs some sort of threat to strive against. That doesn't have to be a violent threat - In some games the threat is a lack of progress - but it needs *something* to push the player to do stuff.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2016, 07:26:42 am
It's nothing much to look at yet (basically just testing physics and graphics), but I have added an open public alpha online for those who want to experiment and make suggestions.
http://indigofenix.com/boundworlds/ (http://indigofenix.com/boundworlds/)
Post by: Kamani on January 16, 2017, 02:59:06 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 16, 2017, 03:05:32 pm
Neat to see this coming back. I saw this before, but it was dead then. Looking forward to trying it out later.
Thanks! Been working hard on it. I'm trying to resist the urge to hype it up too much before it's actually playable, but it's a lot better structured than the original (which was my FIRST major programming project), which will make it easier to add more functions once the framework is set up.
I'm aiming to have the initial release open by the end of this week.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 20, 2017, 09:29:47 am
Things you can do currently:
Sign up and log in
Create worlds
Add rooms, layers, tilesets, sprites, and gates (entrances only)
Import graphics for tilesets and sprites (no default graphics yet aside from a white square)
Set tile properties. Only basic, solid, sticky, and slick tiles work currently. Open space tiles restrict motion to a grid due to incomplete implementation; they will later block motion normally but you will be able to jump over 1-tile pits. (Note that blank tiles are automatically considered open space unless you set them otherwise.)
Create functions for sprite classes
Display text boxes both through the basic sprite editor and in functions. Text inside {curly braces} will be interpreted as code, so you can put variable references and math expressions in them.
Test your rooms
Set gates as public, and visit any world that has a public gate
There is also program logic for sprite functions, including if, else, loops, and creation of variables. You can target objects with functions using periods, for example a sprite can set globally accessible variables by targeting the room, which is stored in _room. (Example: one sprite sets _room.a to 5, then another sprite can use _room.a to mean 5, since they both have the same room. There are a lot of other things you can do with this but I'll need to make a proper guide.)
Note: All built-in variables will start with an _underscore, so don't create variables that start with an underscore or they might be overwritten later.
Some new concepts that I'm considering on top of those from the old BoundWorlds:
Gate properties and tags - You can set exits to either go to specific gates as before, or to a random one. If you choose random, the game will try to find a public gate that matches requested tags. For example, you can put an ice cave entrance in your world and give it a request to search for public #ice_cave gates. Players entering the cave will then be transported to a random gate with the #ice_cave tag.
Multi-world quests - You can create quest items and set an exit to link to a world that will contain that item; or add "blank" items in your world that will be "filled in" by existing quests. Example: You create a quest in your world to find the Ocarina of Plot, which is in the Dungeon of Spiders. Another player creates an area with #dungeon #spiders tags, and places a "blank" item in the center. When a player goes from your world through the gate that links to the spider dungeon, the Ocarina will be found in it. The game might also have some way of generating entire metroidvania-type adventures using multiple linked worlds. Obviously this is a rather complex process; there will have to be some method of determining whether or not a quest is beatable before generating it, but I'm exploring different possibilities.
A plot (I actually know the plot already, but I need to figure out the best way of expressing it, given the open-ended nature of the game).
World building options becoming unlockable. They won't be hard to unlock; basically this will be a method to teach world builders gradually instead of dumping a ton of confusing options on them at once. Simpler tools will be unlocked first so the player learns the nature of the world building process, eventually leading up to the full scripting system. Right now though, everything is available as I make it.
A procedurally generated "void zone" that links worlds together. Will probably tie into the plot in some way.
There will be a default combat system; I'm debating mainly whether to make turn-based encounters or Zelda-esque action sequences. This will tie into the default physics, which are still not quite set in stone. (Right now it's grid-based with diagonal motion; I'm experimenting with different options that will both feel natural and also be puzzle-friendly.)
Post by: Retropunch on January 22, 2017, 08:26:38 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 23, 2017, 05:35:36 am
I could place restrictions on the player until they advance the plot in some way (for example, force them to collect an item to unlock parts of the world builder) but I don't really want to do that.
Simple play time or collection of ontons can be used as restrictions, but if a player simply avoids the "main" plot until they have enough they can simply rush through the plot as fast as they want. This is doubly the case if there's any kind of leveling system.
It's kind of an issue in any wide open sandbox game, but at least in most sandbox games the game's designers have control over the world as a whole and can place barriers to drive the player back to the plot. Boundworlds doesn't really allow that.
Without artificial restrictions such as these, and allowing players to have full access to all worldbuilding tools, the only advantage my world has over anyone else's is that it's the first. This might shape the aesthetic to an extent but I'd like the game's mythology to grow organically around player creations rather than have a specific canon plot written by me.
Anyway, my main objective now is to straighten out the physics. I've made a new system that combines the advantages of both grid-based motion and free motion; basically there's a grid but motion along the x and y axes are calculated independently. It feels more responsive and natural, while at the same time lets worldbuilders construct areas around a distinct grid without having to worry about things like players standing on multiple tiles at once or avoiding supposedly unavoidable tiles.
Post by: Retropunch on January 23, 2017, 09:52:38 am
-snip-This is what I mean about nailing down the plot though. You can easily restrict the plot via combat if you want to, or you can do resource limits (I would STRONGLY advise against playtime though. The player either gets frustrated about having to wait around, or just leaves the game on in the background whilst they do something else).
As much as I like the general idea, I have to be brutally honest that I don't think anyone will just come and start building big, enjoyable worlds just for the sake of it. They can do that in minecraft/whatever in full 3D. The draw has to come from something else, like the story or exciting mechanics.
If you've got a strong initial story and plot, people will come for that and stay to carry on their own branches of that. If you don't have that in place from the start, you're basically saying 'here is a basic toolset - make my game for me'.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 23, 2017, 10:46:59 am
Post by: Retropunch on January 23, 2017, 11:57:25 am
Oh, I'll certainly make a couple of worlds myself, I wouldn't expect people to have any interest in playing without seeing what the game is capable of. I was talking more about some kind of meta, all-encompassing story that explains why you're building worlds. Games that focus on level design generally don't have an elaborate meta-plot in that sense. I think it would be fun to make one but I don't think it's strictly necessary to explain, for instance, that poorly rated worlds are corrupted and eaten by a Zalgo expy to stave off its hunger as opposed to simply being deleted to free up the database. It might even be seen as kind of pretentious.
Definitely not, the more you explain and go into it - the more it becomes not just a level designer and an actual game. Just make sure that everything you put in has mechanics behind it. If a world gets eaten, don't just have it disappear with a quick note - have a quest attached to the whole process to find out why it disappeared.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 23, 2017, 02:56:32 pm
Oh, I'll certainly make a couple of worlds myself, I wouldn't expect people to have any interest in playing without seeing what the game is capable of. I was talking more about some kind of meta, all-encompassing story that explains why you're building worlds. Games that focus on level design generally don't have an elaborate meta-plot in that sense. I think it would be fun to make one but I don't think it's strictly necessary to explain, for instance, that poorly rated worlds are corrupted and eaten by a Zalgo expy to stave off its hunger as opposed to simply being deleted to free up the database. It might even be seen as kind of pretentious.
Definitely not, the more you explain and go into it - the more it becomes not just a level designer and an actual game. Just make sure that everything you put in has mechanics behind it. If a world gets eaten, don't just have it disappear with a quick note - have a quest attached to the whole process to find out why it disappeared.
Hmm... Well, that won't work with actual deletions, but if there's a function to fake corruption it could be included as part of a world's story to explain it by witnessing it firsthand... the slow destruction of a world around you. Heh, that's not a bad idea.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 27, 2017, 04:40:55 am
Physics will be similar to Zelda, Link's Awakening specifically - jumping included. One tile property, "Fall", makes sprites fall downwards - it can be used for either jumping off cliffs toward the screen, or building 2-d platforming segments. Platforming will be very basic though; Players can jump 1 tile up or 1 tile across. There will also be sticky tiles to prevent players from jumping if the world's designer doesn't want them to.
Individual sprites can be designated as either grid-locked (for puzzle elements like moving blocks) or free-motion (for NPCs and enemies). The player will be able to switch between them depending on the situation.
Combat will most likely be Zelda-esque by default; every sprite can be assigned to a team (so you can have allies and battles with multiple sides) and has a number of general properties to determine both its default stats (attack, defense, hp) and behaviors ranging from simple traps that slide back and forth to more complex AI based on "personality traits" like courage, aggression, gregariousness, and so on. More advanced world builders will also be able to access and change all the variables involved in the AI of sprites to make their own routines.
Post by: Rethi-Eli on January 29, 2017, 10:31:52 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 30, 2017, 09:43:44 am
I'm still working with the physics and NPC behavior so all you can really make right now are rooms, tilemaps and gates, and only with imported tilesets. The rest of the things don't really work yet.
That being said, I would like the world builder to be more intuitive.
Basically you need to log in, then click the "create new world" button, then "add new" under "rooms", then likewise for layers and tilemaps. You can then import an image for the tilemap and paint the room with tiles.
You can also add a gate to enter the room and test it out.
Clicking the X in the corner of a window exits and lets you save.
It is pretty shaky right now, but feedback or suggestions for the interface is always appreciated.
Post by: Sponge on January 30, 2017, 11:37:56 am
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 30, 2017, 02:46:54 pm
Wow, I had no idea you were working on this again! I saw this about a half a year ago, and thought you gave up on it. Pretty happy your working on it again, it's a very interesting idea!
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
The whole thing is in HTML5 (except for server side stuff).
I'm basically rebuilding the whole thing from scratch; there's going to be more focus on making it easy to create the stuff people will probably want to create, which in this case means enemies.
Also there's jumping and sidescrolling platforming sections. I'm going to need a new player sprite, I think.
The current open alpha has examples of all of these, though the physics are still a little bit off.
Post by: Sponge on January 30, 2017, 02:55:57 pm
I would suggest eventually adding stock tilesets while keeping the ability to import your own. BTW what would be the best PixelxPixel size for tiles?Wow, I had no idea you were working on this again! I saw this about a half a year ago, and thought you gave up on it. Pretty happy your working on it again, it's a very interesting idea!
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
The whole thing is in HTML5 (except for server side stuff).
I'm basically rebuilding the whole thing from scratch; there's going to be more focus on making it easy to create the stuff people will probably want to create, which in this case means enemies.
Also there's jumping and sidescrolling platforming sections. I'm going to need a new player sprite, I think.
The current open alpha has examples of all of these, though the physics are still a little bit off.
Once you leave Open Alpha you might want to add some HTML5 basic documentation as well. I could probably find out how to do all this, but it would make it easier just to have some side-notes to look at.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 30, 2017, 03:20:34 pm
I would suggest eventually adding stock tilesets while keeping the ability to import your own. BTW what would be the best PixelxPixel size for tiles?Wow, I had no idea you were working on this again! I saw this about a half a year ago, and thought you gave up on it. Pretty happy your working on it again, it's a very interesting idea!
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
The whole thing is in HTML5 (except for server side stuff).
I'm basically rebuilding the whole thing from scratch; there's going to be more focus on making it easy to create the stuff people will probably want to create, which in this case means enemies.
Also there's jumping and sidescrolling platforming sections. I'm going to need a new player sprite, I think.
The current open alpha has examples of all of these, though the physics are still a little bit off.
Once you leave Open Alpha you might want to add some HTML5 basic documentation as well. I could probably find out how to do all this, but it would make it easier just to have some side-notes to look at.
Oh, building in the game doesn't require knowledge of HTML5. I actually made a custom scripting language for that. Which... will need documentation, yes. It's pretty self-explanatory stuff if you're into programming; just your standard loops/conditionals/variables, but people will want to know all the keywords for maximum options. (You can modify almost all object variables through the function system, it's pretty neat.) Although I do want to make the basic options flexible enough that you can make complex and fun worlds without getting into scripting.
I do intend to include stock tilesets and sprites, unfortunately my pixel art skills are rather basic so I'll have to either find a set that works for the game's purposes, or commission someone to draw them.
The tile size is 32x32.
Post by: Sponge on January 30, 2017, 04:26:55 pm
I can interpret coding pretty well, I dabble in it from time to time, but I still need too know the basic codes and stuff. For example how you define variables. What I really want to know is how you would make a text box (Maybe I'm just missing something obvious).I would suggest eventually adding stock tilesets while keeping the ability to import your own. BTW what would be the best PixelxPixel size for tiles?Wow, I had no idea you were working on this again! I saw this about a half a year ago, and thought you gave up on it. Pretty happy your working on it again, it's a very interesting idea!
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
The whole thing is in HTML5 (except for server side stuff).
I'm basically rebuilding the whole thing from scratch; there's going to be more focus on making it easy to create the stuff people will probably want to create, which in this case means enemies.
Also there's jumping and sidescrolling platforming sections. I'm going to need a new player sprite, I think.
The current open alpha has examples of all of these, though the physics are still a little bit off.
Once you leave Open Alpha you might want to add some HTML5 basic documentation as well. I could probably find out how to do all this, but it would make it easier just to have some side-notes to look at.
Oh, building in the game doesn't require knowledge of HTML5. I actually made a custom scripting language for that. Which... will need documentation, yes. It's pretty self-explanatory stuff if you're into programming; just your standard loops/conditionals/variables, but people will want to know all the keywords for maximum options. (You can modify almost all object variables through the function system, it's pretty neat.) Although I do want to make the basic options flexible enough that you can make complex and fun worlds without getting into scripting.
I do intend to include stock tilesets and sprites, unfortunately my pixel art skills are rather basic so I'll have to either find a set that works for the game's purposes, or commission someone to draw them.
The tile size is 32x32.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 30, 2017, 05:26:39 pm
I can interpret coding pretty well, I dabble in it from time to time, but I still need too know the basic codes and stuff. For example how you define variables. What I really want to know is how you would make a text box (Maybe I'm just missing something obvious).I would suggest eventually adding stock tilesets while keeping the ability to import your own. BTW what would be the best PixelxPixel size for tiles?Wow, I had no idea you were working on this again! I saw this about a half a year ago, and thought you gave up on it. Pretty happy your working on it again, it's a very interesting idea!
EDIT: I assume the more code-y parts are in HTML5?
The whole thing is in HTML5 (except for server side stuff).
I'm basically rebuilding the whole thing from scratch; there's going to be more focus on making it easy to create the stuff people will probably want to create, which in this case means enemies.
Also there's jumping and sidescrolling platforming sections. I'm going to need a new player sprite, I think.
The current open alpha has examples of all of these, though the physics are still a little bit off.
Once you leave Open Alpha you might want to add some HTML5 basic documentation as well. I could probably find out how to do all this, but it would make it easier just to have some side-notes to look at.
Oh, building in the game doesn't require knowledge of HTML5. I actually made a custom scripting language for that. Which... will need documentation, yes. It's pretty self-explanatory stuff if you're into programming; just your standard loops/conditionals/variables, but people will want to know all the keywords for maximum options. (You can modify almost all object variables through the function system, it's pretty neat.) Although I do want to make the basic options flexible enough that you can make complex and fun worlds without getting into scripting.
I do intend to include stock tilesets and sprites, unfortunately my pixel art skills are rather basic so I'll have to either find a set that works for the game's purposes, or commission someone to draw them.
The tile size is 32x32.
Text boxes can be displayed by sprites, either through the basic "display text" parameter which will be triggered when the player touches or checks the sprite, or with a "Display" event inside a function.
Post by: Sponge on January 30, 2017, 06:46:50 pm
EDIT: Also, it seems some of the tiles I've replaced can't be changed. Is there an eraser or something?
EDIT EDIT: Never mind, it was a layers issue.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: Is there an eraser though?
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 31, 2017, 12:12:29 am
You can't put more than one tile in a space in a single tilemap, but you can make multiple tilemaps in a single layer. One of the best techniques is making two tilemaps, one for visuals and an invisible one for collisions.
Post by: Sponge on January 31, 2017, 11:38:58 am
The white box under the tilemap represents a "blank" tile and can be selected like a normal tile. (You can select tiles with both mouse buttons by the way.)So the blank tile works like an eraser? I could of swore I tried that...
You can't put more than one tile in a space in a single tilemap, but you can make multiple tilemaps in a single layer. One of the best techniques is making two tilemaps, one for visuals and an invisible one for collisions.
I'll have to try again once I get home.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 31, 2017, 05:47:17 pm
Post by: Sponge on January 31, 2017, 06:42:13 pm
EDIT: Are you still working on animations? When I click on them nothing happens.
EDIT EDIT: How do I exit the gate menu? I cleared my destinations and when I opened the menu again I have nothing to click and I can't leave. Had to leave an lost my progress. That's an annoying problem unless I'm missing something.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: I won't lie, I'm very frustrated with this program. The UI's don't work half the time, and it's not easy to navigate. I'm sorry, but I think I'm going to have to leave this until you work on the UI's and fix their reliability or maybe add some sort of reference or tutorial. Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh, but I just spent an hour building a 16x16 room (It shouldn't take an hour, I'm really annoyed with how clunky your systems work) only to see tiles get deleted and lots of tiles just get messed up because either I get stuck in a menu and can't find out how to close it or I just press a button to see what it does and it does something bad. Again, I'm being a bit harsh here but I could make a game world faster and better then this in less the time using Unity and Tiled (Note I'm not saying I could make a game like yours, I'm terrible with online stuff or having players make stuff, but I could make a game map and basic controls easier without using this. It's just not easy enough to use.) I know this is the open alpha, but I'm going to have to leave this game for a while.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 01, 2017, 01:01:54 am
I'll add in an instant save button so crashes are less frustrating when they do happen. Edit: Added.
I'm a little confused about your issue with the tiles though. Are you selecting a tile from the menu between each click? You don't have to do that... Just click the tile and then click on the map as many times as you want to place them. Or you can right click the blank tile and then use the right mouse button to delete, which is what I usually do.
What part of the UI is hard to navigate specifically? How might it be made better? Suggestions for the menu is the main thing I'm looking for now. You should be able to open menus by clicking on objects in lists and close the menus by clicking on the x in the corner. Are there any other menus you got stuck on?
Post by: Sponge on February 01, 2017, 11:15:19 am
Well, it is alpha. So yes, there are bugs. I do try to get rid of all the outright crashes before updating the public version, but there are some mistakes. The crash on the empty gate menu being one of them. My bad. Edit: It's fixed now.Ok, I was a bit frustrated last night. I didn't really explain my reasons for my reasons.
I'll add in an instant save button so crashes are less frustrating when they do happen. Edit: Added.
I'm a little confused about your issue with the tiles though. Are you selecting a tile from the menu between each click? You don't have to do that... Just click the tile and then click on the map as many times as you want to place them. Or you can right click the blank tile and then use the right mouse button to delete, which is what I usually do.
What part of the UI is hard to navigate specifically? How might it be made better? Suggestions for the menu is the main thing I'm looking for now. You should be able to open menus by clicking on objects in lists and close the menus by clicking on the x in the corner. Are there any other menus you got stuck on?
One part of the tile problem was what we talked about earlier, how you have to select the square then then right(Or was it left?)-click twice (Sometimes once?) I think you would be better off having an actually erase button that works for every tile. Something else is gates. What happened to me (After the Menu Sticking incident) was that I put down a gate. I then picked the gate destination that was the name of my world, thinking that would make this an entrance gate. When I clicked test... black. The tiles went black, like the place your in before you select which room you want. The problem was I couldn't get back to my room (Note: If I try refreshing the program whenever I double click my room the screen except the black tiles turns a brighter grey, if that makes sense). Even when I clicked it, it stayed in the black place. I effectively lost that room. Maybe I just did something wrong, but all I know is my room is basically void because I either made a mistake or it's a bug. If I did make a mistake, it still shouldn't be as easy to make as it was.
Still on the subject of tiles, lets talk about the how clunky places tiles are. It's very slow. You should really add a way to drag your mouse and place tiles or such. Placing each tile one mouse click at a time was really tedious, and I can't imagine how slow it would be with a bigger room.
The menus. There is nothing very wrong about the menus (Except when I got stuck in the gate one; thanks for fixing that btw), there just hard to navigate. I think you should instead make it so when I click on a tile set or an object a new window opens that you can drag around and such, so I can have multiple windows open at the same time. This way, I don't get stuck in a maze of menu.
Objects. I made an object, but whenever I save my room they disappear (This was before my room got voided). I had to re-put them in every time I closed (Even when I saved). I also still don't get how animations work, when I clicked on them nothing happened. Other then that, I never got to see my object (A bunny) in action, because my world got voided by the gate.
I hope that was clear enough for you. I don't know if I explained everything well, but I tried. And I was being a bit harsh in my earlier edit, I'll probably play this game again in a few day (If not for a little bit today). I was just really frustrated (and slightly tired). I do really hope this game improves, it's a really interesting idea, and the fact that I could be one of the first people (Besides you) to make worlds and rooms excites me too much for me to stay away. Thank you for asking me to expand on my ideas, I don't know if I would have otherwise. Thanks!
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 01, 2017, 11:59:10 am
I build in Chrome. I'll try to make it work in as many browsers as possible, but there might be some...uh, differences for the time being.
That being said, I'll see what I can do about your suggestions, like click-and-drag for tile placing, although that's also how you move the screen around for larger rooms. Maybe hold shift, then click and drag? And draggable menus are a possibility, I wasn't really sure whether they would be more confusing or less.
Global sprite classes are kind of buggy at the moment; internally classes can be held at any level (layer, room, or world) but I'm still working on what interface would be the most intuitive, so only the ones added at the layer level will work as intended.
I'm working on the custom animation system right now, in the meantime you can use 2 types of sprite sheets for standing and moving around, either Charas Project standard or RPG Maker standard, which are selected in the sprite editor.
Thanks for playing! I know it can be frustrating at this early alpha stage. But on the plus side, the earlier suggestions are made, the easier it will be to implement them.
EDIT: I just looked at your world (not in-game, just copied the data) and I think I understand the issue you've been having with tiles... you're using a bunch of tilesets with a single tile each! While it is...possible to make a room like this, that's not how it's supposed to work... normally you would have a single image with all or most of the tiles you need for the room, then select them from the image on the right. Try looking up 32x32 tilemaps for examples.
I'll see if I can figure out the problem you had with gates.
EDIT2: Seems the game crashes when trying to load a sprite with a globally-defined class. I'll have to fix that up... yeah there's no way you could have known that. In the meantime, I put your room back into working order by moving the class into the layer through text editing.
Oh, speaking of text editing, I have copies of the data from most if not all of the worlds from the original version of the game on my computer (there weren't very many, I must have downloaded them for some reason and then forgotten). A lot of the data structure is different now, but tilemaps are stored the same way, so if anyone spent a lot of time building and has a particular request, I can manually hack their maps back into the new edition.
Post by: Sponge on February 01, 2017, 01:01:54 pm
Wait... I just ran a test in Firefox, and... wow. Are you using Firefox by any chance? Or any other non-Chrome browser?I haven't checked my world yet, but thanks! Let's hope I don't make the same mistake again. As for tiles maps, you said
I build in Chrome. I'll try to make it work in as many browsers as possible, but there might be some...uh, differences for the time being.
That being said, I'll see what I can do about your suggestions, like click-and-drag for tile placing, although that's also how you move the screen around for larger rooms. Maybe hold shift, then click and drag? And draggable menus are a possibility, I wasn't really sure whether they would be more confusing or less.
Global sprite classes are kind of buggy at the moment; internally classes can be held at any level (layer, room, or world) but I'm still working on what interface would be the most intuitive, so only the ones added at the layer level will work as intended.
I'm working on the custom animation system right now, in the meantime you can use 2 types of sprite sheets for standing and moving around, either Charas Project standard or RPG Maker standard, which are selected in the sprite editor.
Thanks for playing! I know it can be frustrating at this early alpha stage. But on the plus side, the earlier suggestions are made, the easier it will be to implement them.
EDIT: I just looked at your world (not in-game, just copied the data) and I think I understand the issue you've been having with tiles... you're using a bunch of tilesets with a single tile each! While it is...possible to make a room like this, that's not how it's supposed to work... normally you would have a single image with all or most of the tiles you need for the room, then select them from the image on the right. Try looking up 32x32 tilemaps for examples.
I'll see if I can figure out the problem you had with gates.
EDIT2: Seems the game crashes when trying to load a sprite with a globally-defined class. I'll have to fix that up... yeah there's no way you could have known that. In the meantime, I put your room back into working order by moving the class into the layer through text editing.
Oh, speaking of text editing, I have copies of the data from most if not all of the worlds from the original version of the game on my computer (there weren't very many, I must have downloaded them for some reason and then forgotten). A lot of the data structure is different now, but tilemaps are stored the same way, so if anyone spent a lot of time building and has a particular request, I can manually hack their maps back into the new edition.
You can't put more than one tile in a space in a single tilemap, but you can make multiple tilemaps in a single layer.I thought that meant only one tile. Interesting to know it automatically splices them. Thanks for the help, I'll probably try again once I get home. Good to know your working on animations. Using shift or Middle-Mouse button plus holding left-click for scrolling would be best I think. Shift would be the best for non-mouse users though.
Post by: Sponge on February 01, 2017, 11:03:39 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 02, 2017, 12:44:49 am
Aggro radius is the distance at which the creature will start to pursue an enemy.
Aggro max is added to aggro radius to determine the distance at which they will give up pursuit.
Home radius is the distance from their origin point they will consider "home", they will return to this area when they have no target.
Pursuit distance is the distance beyond their home that they will go when chasing an enemy.
Stalking radius/stalking max is the distance they will circle an enemy when their attacks are on cooldown.
I made an AI visualiser button that lets you view all of these distances.
Fear and aggression are placeholders for more complex AI, right now anything with aggro range will mindlessly attack anything not on their team.
For using the default animations, you need a sprite sheet that uses either Charas-project or Rpg Maker conventions, then use that image as your object's graphic source and select the relevant choice from the "animation convention" dropdown. These sprite sheets include animations for standing and walking in four directions.
Post by: Sponge on February 02, 2017, 09:00:47 am
The only movement right now is combat related movement, so if you're trying to do something else it won't work.Well, guess I'll look up "Rpg Maker" Conventions. Shame about the only attack AI. I was hoping they could just wander around. They are rabbits after all. I'll just have to have them stand still for now.
Aggro radius is the distance at which the creature will start to pursue an enemy.
Aggro max is added to aggro radius to determine the distance at which they will give up pursuit.
Home radius is the distance from their origin point they will consider "home", they will return to this area when they have no target.
Pursuit distance is the distance beyond their home that they will go when chasing an enemy.
Stalking radius/stalking max is the distance they will circle an enemy when their attacks are on cooldown.
I made an AI visualiser button that lets you view all of these distances.
Fear and aggression are placeholders for more complex AI, right now anything with aggro range will mindlessly attack anything not on their team.
For using the default animations, you need a sprite sheet that uses either Charas-project or Rpg Maker conventions, then use that image as your object's graphic source and select the relevant choice from the "animation convention" dropdown. These sprite sheets include animations for standing and walking in four directions.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 02, 2017, 03:43:23 pm
Things expected soon:
Custom animations
More default motion options
Functioning exit gates, both with specific targets and tag-based randomization
Next on the list:
More function options
Custom attack builder
Dialogue tree builder
Animated tilesets probably go in about here too
After this:
Persistent player inventory (important for saving data between worlds)
Shops for buying items
After this I'll consider the game to be in beta proper and I'll start working on the story elements.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 03, 2017, 09:35:34 am
The custom animation editor doesn't actually work yet, but you can fiddle with it. Default animation conventions still work.
You can also bounce on non-solid NPC's heads. This doesn't do anything and is just a placeholder.
Post by: Sponge on February 03, 2017, 12:53:10 pm
I've added some idle wandering behaviors. The relevant values are Idle walk speed, Idle walk timer, Idle stop timer, Idle turn frequency (probability of changing direction, must be non-zero for now as continuous walking in a straight line doesn't work), and Idle randomness (placeholder for now). These values relate to a sprite's behavior when not in combat. You can make sprites that wander around randomly.For reference what does Idle walk timer and Idle stop timer do?
The custom animation editor doesn't actually work yet, but you can fiddle with it. Default animation conventions still work.
You can also bounce on non-solid NPC's heads. This doesn't do anything and is just a placeholder.
Post by: Sponge on February 04, 2017, 10:20:36 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 04, 2017, 11:16:14 am
For reference what does Idle walk timer and Idle stop timer do?
The logic is as follows:
At the start, the unit starts walking
After [Idle walk timer] frames, they stop
After [Idle stop timer] frames, they start again
There is a [turn frequency]% chance they will change direction each time they start walking
[Idle randomness] is not implemented yet, but it will cause the start/stop timers to vary by a certain amount.
However there is a small bug right now where if you don't give them any turn frequency they will not start walking in the first place. This is because the initial direction is not set properly; I will soon change the way the initial direction works to be incorporated into the instance's position so you can have multiple instances of the same object facing different directions at the start.
I'm going to see what's up with the graphics.
EDIT: Okay, the graphics should work properly now. For single-frame objects, you will need to make sure "None" is selected under "Animation convention".
Also, you can make gates that exit to other areas now by checking "exits" and specifying a destination. Tag-based random destinations don't work yet.
Post by: Sponge on February 04, 2017, 04:32:38 pm
Thanks for the info! I appreciate that you're looking into the graphics.For reference what does Idle walk timer and Idle stop timer do?
The logic is as follows:
At the start, the unit starts walking
After [Idle walk timer] frames, they stop
After [Idle stop timer] frames, they start again
There is a [turn frequency]% chance they will change direction each time they start walking
[Idle randomness] is not implemented yet, but it will cause the start/stop timers to vary by a certain amount.
However there is a small bug right now where if you don't give them any turn frequency they will not start walking in the first place. This is because the initial direction is not set properly; I will soon change the way the initial direction works to be incorporated into the instance's position so you can have multiple instances of the same object facing different directions at the start.
I'm going to see what's up with the graphics.
Post by: Reelya on February 05, 2017, 06:09:52 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 05, 2017, 02:35:33 pm
PTW, it's certainly a good idea. I've got an idea for something similar (player-created worlds with their own set of rules), but it's in a very different genre.
That's cool. What genre are you looking at?
Post by: Pavellius on February 05, 2017, 05:36:32 pm
Post by: Reelya on February 05, 2017, 08:35:13 pm
Custom animations are in.PTW, it's certainly a good idea. I've got an idea for something similar (player-created worlds with their own set of rules), but it's in a very different genre.
That's cool. What genre are you looking at?
Browser game where you play as a citizen of a nation. Basically rather than hand-coding all the rules, I was thinking to make a system where people create a "world" with it's own rules (e.g. what resources exists, what buildings make/process each resource, details on how politics works etc, possible fantasy theme, level of tech, and tech tree upgrades allowed), then people can choose to be residents of one world or the other. That way it offloads a big chunk of the game dev effort off to players, and I'd just maintain the low-level engine and some design tools.
The characters themselves might not be directly transferrable between worlds, as the rules may be completely different, so there's going to be a "character points" system. Players will be able to "emigrate" to another world, and their expended CPs get reset so they can buy skills relevant to the new world, or they could "retire" a character, which puts them in a "vault" and that process frees up CPs to spend on other characters. To get a character back from the vault, you'd need to spend the CP cost, or reset their skills. So basically CPs is like XP, except it's a per-account meta-XP for buying character upgrades that you accumulate. Also, I'm thinking that the worlds themselves might need some CPs to develop, so as to stop players just spamming worlds, but these CPs can be raised by any player, so the developer of a new world/ruleset can in fact do a "crowdfunding" excercise to get CP donations to make his dream world, and the dev team could boost CPs to promising worlds which aren't getting attention now and then.
Haha, it would be even cooler if I could make all this work in a single world, but player-defined rules could prove to be a challenge for that ...
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 06, 2017, 01:06:06 am
How do I import tilesets? And how can I access the default tilesets?
Right now the only way to import tilesets is through linking to a url; put the image url in the box under the tileset. There will be default tilesets and a proper uploader later.
-snip-
That's a cool concept, especially the CP idea. Sounds like these worlds are much more simulated. How would you explain the nature of the player though?
BW leans heavily on the game side of the game/simulation spectrum; the world builder can modify almost everything down to NPC routines and cutscenes so limiting the worldbuilding options with a point system is conceptually difficult. I could put in more simulation aspects as default options (cities, populations, etc) but this might cause it to stray from the main focus of the game, which is exploration and storytelling.
Post by: Sponge on February 06, 2017, 11:54:11 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 06, 2017, 01:50:58 pm
Custom animations are functioning, though only _stand and _walk do anything, for now. Playing animations will be added to the function list soon.
You can now set the initial direction of individual sprites; after adding them you click again in the direction you want them to face.
Idle movement works properly now, you can do a whole bunch of things with it. Walking without turning lets them pace between walls, with turning lets them wander randomly, and they will try to remain within the boundaries of their home radius at all times, setting home radius to -1 lets them walk around the map freely. Note that radii for all sprite behavior is measured in pixels, not tiles.
Idle turning now uses a timer like other idle behaviors, it seems more consistent that way.
Also the bug where sometimes you can't enter a room for no reason is fixed.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 07, 2017, 12:35:21 pm
There is no pathfinding yet; I'm not really sure how advanced I want the pathfinding to be. I'll probably start with a very simple algorithm (like pac-man ghosts), which should at least suffice for not getting stuck on tiny walls.
Next on the list will probably be dialogue. I could go with the standard, "display text box and press a button to advance" style dialogue, but maybe making a more dynamic-feeling dialogue system could be fun, where people might talk in the background and you can eavesdrop on them without actually introducing yourself. Are there any games that do something like that in a way that feels natural?
Post by: Sponge on February 07, 2017, 03:52:16 pm
I could go with the standard, "display text box and press a button to advance" style dialogue, but maybe making a more dynamic-feeling dialogue system could be fun, where people might talk in the background and you can eavesdrop on them without actually introducing yourself. Are there any games that do something like that in a way that feels natural?Well, a lot of games do dynamic dialogue systems well. I know a lot of people like Mass Effect's, though I've never played the game. Bethesda games are nice too (I would prefer them to the wheel, as they provide more space for text). Don't know about the eavesdropping, probably just have smaller text boxes pop up in the direction of the person (Or people) that you overhear.
I'm adding new functionality to functions. Certain events in the function menu work as "commands" that are executed over a period of time, like "walk to a point"; these events override the normal behavior of sprites and cause the script to automatically wait until they are complete before progressing to the next event, although you can tell them not to wait by clicking the "Continue immediately" option. Relative positions and orientations for walking (for instance, "walk forward 32 pixels") are planned but not active yet.This seems like it could be fun when you implement the fighting systems. Seems like with some work you could make enemies and such have more extravagant attacks.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on February 08, 2017, 12:52:26 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 09, 2017, 01:23:39 am
IndigoFenix: I'm talking a lot of interest in this :), is there possibly a way I could help with the programming? What language is the server in?
I don't really see how two people could work on one code, at least one as interconnected as this. Maybe if I split up some of the spaghettier parts into multiple files, but it still might be more trouble than it's worth.
The server is PHP.
Quote from: sponge link=topic=137474.msg7353989#msg7353989
This seems like it could be fun when you implement the fighting systems. Seems like with some work you could make enemies and such have more extravagant attacks.
I'm planning on splitting up combat behaviors into 3 categories. First, the default aggro/chase/collide/retreat system we have now, although this will have more complex behaviors later with things like retreating, flocking, and threat assessment. Second, custom techniques which will be associated with custom animations and utilize certain stock behaviors: strikes, grapples, tackles, and spawning objects as bullets, beneficial abilities like buffs and heals can also go here; the AI will use these automatically as appropriate. Third, more elaborate attack patterns that utilize functions; these will mainly be used for bosses and the like.
The main focus of the function system, especially as it pertains to motion, is for building cutscenes; everything is executed in sequence by default so you can simply script out what you want to happen without having to worry about getting the timing right.
There may also be a yield/capture system in place where enemies bring you to a location if you surrender to them, or if they simply bring you anyway if they defeat you. Truth is, I haven't quite worked out what the default behavior will be when you die; right now it just resets the room but there should probably be save points or something. I'm also not sure what will happen if you fall in a pit, should that count as instant death, pop you back out with a bit of HP loss, or something else...?
Post by: Reelya on February 09, 2017, 01:45:09 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 09, 2017, 05:22:30 am
How about client-side scripting or similar. You have a PHP backend, but what's the client coded in?
The client is Javascript. It isn't obfuscated or anything so you can look at the client code easily enough.
Post by: Reelya on February 09, 2017, 05:49:03 am
e.g. devs could specifiy what actual JavaScript code is attached to a specific object in their world.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 09, 2017, 09:31:58 am
Maybe split the JavaScript into layers, then allow world devs to make code-based addons for their own worlds? You may need extra checking on anything sent back to the server then, but you should be doing that anyway.
e.g. devs could specifiy what actual JavaScript code is attached to a specific object in their world.
Mnm. While technically possible, writing executable Javascript that will automatically be executed by other players' computers is opening up a whole new can of worms. I'm spending a good amount of effort limiting the amount of griefing it is possible for world builders to do (for example, the game will not crash as a result of poorly-coded functions; you will be able to open the pause menu during an infinite loop, which will allow you to exit that world). There will also be certain limits on the ability of a world's code to modify items a player obtains from other worlds, which will prevent things like stealing all of their money. If world builders are able to mess with the game's code directly, there's no way to control things like that.
Don't worry though - the function system will be extremely flexible. When you can access almost every variable in every object in a world, there isn't a whole lot you can't do. One of the development goals is that it should be possible to make a passable imitation of certain classic arcade games (Tetris, Pac-Man, Asteroids, Galaga, Breakout) whose behavior is not part of the game already through the function system alone.
I might include an event that will allow you to make calls to an external API and store the response in a variable for whatever purpose you want. This will make it possible to write your own functions without messing with other players' script directly. For example, you could put an NPC in your world that connects to a chatbot service and uses the chatbot's responses for its dialogue.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on February 09, 2017, 10:22:12 am
Damn, PHP? wouldnt something like Node.js be faster? plus you could do some extreme multithreading fairly easily with node :pIndigoFenix: I'm talking a lot of interest in this :), is there possibly a way I could help with the programming? What language is the server in?
I don't really see how two people could work on one code, at least one as interconnected as this. Maybe if I split up some of the spaghettier parts into multiple files, but it still might be more trouble than it's worth.
The server is PHP.Quote from: sponge link=topic=137474.msg7353989#msg7353989This seems like it could be fun when you implement the fighting systems. Seems like with some work you could make enemies and such have more extravagant attacks.
I'm planning on splitting up combat behaviors into 3 categories. First, the default aggro/chase/collide/retreat system we have now, although this will have more complex behaviors later with things like retreating, flocking, and threat assessment. Second, custom techniques which will be associated with custom animations and utilize certain stock behaviors: strikes, grapples, tackles, and spawning objects as bullets, beneficial abilities like buffs and heals can also go here; the AI will use these automatically as appropriate. Third, more elaborate attack patterns that utilize functions; these will mainly be used for bosses and the like.
The main focus of the function system, especially as it pertains to motion, is for building cutscenes; everything is executed in sequence by default so you can simply script out what you want to happen without having to worry about getting the timing right.
There may also be a yield/capture system in place where enemies bring you to a location if you surrender to them, or if they simply bring you anyway if they defeat you. Truth is, I haven't quite worked out what the default behavior will be when you die; right now it just resets the room but there should probably be save points or something. I'm also not sure what will happen if you fall in a pit, should that count as instant death, pop you back out with a bit of HP loss, or something else...?
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 09, 2017, 10:54:47 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 10, 2017, 10:22:21 am
Most event variables can be use expressions instead of plain numbers by clicking the {} button. Expressions have access to all of a sprite's variables, as well as most basic math and logic operators. _x and _y are probably the most relevant default variables for the moment. I will make a guide to show all of the variables that can be accessed.
Ideally they shouldn't crash even if you write functions badly, but I haven't checked every possibility so try not to break it. If you make an infinite loop you can stop it after a few seconds by pressing escape.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 12, 2017, 08:41:49 am
I am guesing it is connected to me using firefox from one of your earlier posts, but i basicly can not play at all.
First thing i did i signed up which went without trouble but then it breaks down. When i try to enter your spider room the backround around the game window gous black and thats it. The game window itself stays compeatly unchanged and i can travel to my own world. Once i somehow ??? entered your world it looked normal but pressing escape would pause the game (invisible menu?) and i had no way to leave other than reloading the page. Also for some reason "w" would move me up but a s d did nothing.
Then i tried the world builder, at the beginning also without problems becouse i am mostly familiar with the menus from the previous version. Uploading the tileset worked fine but then the trouble came back. As far as i can tell i basicly can not select a tile other then the blank, they are without higlight (if that is in yet?) and do not rememer thier settings. Feels more like every time i click in the tilemap i deselect everything. Next i made a gate (ceruenty public) which works? but can not be moved from the top left corner. Objects and everything else i have not tried yet.
Please do tell my if missunderstood something. I think it would be usefull to have some basic controls shown, like movment, menu, action.
For now i am going to try a few other things and report my findings.
I am looking forward to building my own world again.
Edit:
ok, so i can enter the spider cavern by linking my gate to yours. (Is also the only way which works while not logged in.) Thoght i noticed that the game pauses and resets all enemies every time you pass through a gate, even if it leads in the very same room. Is that intended? Next i noticed that it still offered the world builder option (while logged in) and allowed my to make edits to your world. I did not dare to try and save them with how broken the tillemaps are for me (even in your world). It seems that while logged in i am permanently in test mode when entering a world.
The world builder itself does not dicard changes properly and restores them every time i enter the world no mater be it throu the world builder or the public gate (aka testmode) and then asks wheter i want them saved when i try to leave, again be it world builder or gate. That persisting until i reload the page.
Edit:
As far as i can tell i can not place objects either so that will be it for a while i geuss.
Edit:
Because i apperantly have nothing better to do have this: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/432hhxbds8olfzj/AAAbNXsFYdTeGC7Xfj2DB9Zba?dl=0 It is a link to a dropbox folder where i will uplaod my stuff for Boundworlds. As the project is active again i will work on these further. So feel free to make some requests if you like the style of what i curetly have and i might use it as inspiration. The blocks.png was the dafault tilleset providet in the original, just in case someone wants it. I will preface every thing i make myself with Kazz, feel free to use these however you see fitt. As the project is active again i will work on these further. So feel free to make some requests if you like the style of what i curetly have and i might use it as inspiration.
The one thing to note is, that as far as i know, you can't use the link to the file directly in dropbox. You have to upload the image to an imagehosting site first.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 12, 2017, 10:30:18 am
Control is with the arrow keys, W working seems to be a leftover from an earlier edit. I might put it back later though, depends on how important the mouse will be for gameplay.
Gates reloading the room is intended; moving to different spots within a room is done using jump events. This will be more clear once travelling by gate has a proper fade effect.
I'll have to do some better checking on leaving edit mode (what is supposed to happen is that if you are in test mode and step on a gate leading to another world, the game gives you a choice to either continue travelling normally either saving or discarding changes, or return to the editor.) But even if you do edit someone else's world due to a bug or hacking, there's a server side checker to make sure only a world's creator can save it.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 12, 2017, 10:44:00 am
Edit: Eff it, i will just use chrom as single purpose software.
What came to mind while plaing with the editor:
Someway or other, while editing, i get in a state where almost all buttons become unresposive and i have to reload the page and loose all unsaved progres to get out of it.
Ok, figured that one out. Appearantly when i want to "set gate" and then "clear" something gets messed up and when you reselect the gate all the options after the text "Go to specific location" disapear. You can continue editing but the world can't be saved anymore and once you leave the room dialog (so that you can see your world ID) everything is locked up and you can only reload. But as long as you are in that room dialog you can deleate the broken gate and then all works fine again.
Draging the rooms aroun by left mous heavily interfers with fast tille placement. I would suggest moving the drag function to middle mouse couse i am used to it from other editors.
I like the way you can make tillemaps invisible or opaque to see in which layer warios stuff is.
There was once talk about rotatings and flipping tilles as to remove redundancy from tillesets. Will that be a thing?
The water is more of a shallow pit unles we get (have?) a way to submerge the feet.
Mouseover text for various buttons chekmarks and options would be mighty helpfull. All these options for tilles have me confused. Is there one which acts as a pit in the original? I know it is in this thread somewhere, but lazy people won't want to look it up.
I probably gonna have to turn some tiles into objects because with the free movement thier 32x32 hitboxes just do not make sense.
Just noticed that there is a small offset between tillemaps in the same layer. Is that also intentional?
A biger "X" close button or key function which moves us one level up in the menu hirearchy to allow for faster layer switching?
Open the function editor out of the way or make it movable so i can check for coordinates on screan.
Ok, so this time i made na object and added an event to it, but when i try to test it the editor menu disapears, the screen stays focused where it was and the player does not apear. I tryed deleting the object and reseting the gate but nothig helps and to top it of i can't acces the world from the main screeen the same way i can't acces the spider cave.
All in all i am probably gonna mostly stick to making tille maps and static worlds for now.
fast edit: WTHeck. How do my posts keep getting this long? This is ridiculous.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 12, 2017, 02:54:48 pm
Someway or other, while editing, i get in a state where almost all buttons become unresposive and i have to reload the page and loose all unsaved progres to get out of it.Fixed this.
Ok, figured that one out. Appearantly when i want to "set gate" and then "clear" something gets messed up and when you reselect the gate all the options after the text "Go to specific location" disapear. You can continue editing but the world can't be saved anymore and once you leave the room dialog (so that you can see your world ID) everything is locked up and you can only reload. But as long as you are in that room dialog you can deleate the broken gate and then all works fine again.
Draging the rooms aroun by left mous heavily interfers with fast tille placement. I would suggest moving the drag function to middle mouse couse i am used to it from other editors.There have been some comments about this. I will make some method of placing tiles quickly.
There was once talk about rotatings and flipping tilles as to remove redundancy from tillesets. Will that be a thing?There will be various ways of manipulating images both in the editor and in the game. This will probably come around the time I make free-rotating sprites.
The water is more of a shallow pit unles we get (have?) a way to submerge the feet.Not all tile physics are done yet. I will leave here what is planned for them, but not all of them really work.
Mouseover text for various buttons chekmarks and options would be mighty helpfull. All these options for tilles have me confused. Is there one which acts as a pit in the original? I know it is in this thread somewhere, but lazy people won't want to look it up.
Open Space: Like the pits in the original, but only work for gridlocked sprites (i.e. not the player) right now. At least partially because I haven't quite decided what should happen if you fall in.
Solid: Solid blocks, impassible by any sprite that does not have "ghost" active. Working.
Drop (called "slide" right now): Marks "sidescroller" areas. You can also use it to make south-facing cliffs that you jump off of. Physics kind of work, but not perfect.
Climb: Ladders. Working.
Slick: Ice. Not sure about exact physics here. Not working yet.
Sticky: Disables jumping. Not working yet.
Water: Partially submerges you. May or may not allow free vertical motion in sidescroller mode. Not really working yet, just lowers the graphic a bit.
Grass: Partially hides you without submerging you. Might have some impact on a stealth system. Not working yet.
I probably gonna have to turn some tiles into objects because with the free movement thier 32x32 hitboxes just do not make sense.Yes, this is one of the disadvantages of the free movement system. I might make something to force players into grid mode.
Just noticed that there is a small offset between tillemaps in the same layer. Is that also intentional?I don't see this. Might it be an effect of one of the tilemaps you're using?
A biger "X" close button or key function which moves us one level up in the menu hirearchy to allow for faster layer switching?I'll try to come up with a more intuitive design for the menus.
Open the function editor out of the way or make it movable so i can check for coordinates on screan.
Ok, so this time i made na object and added an event to it, but when i try to test it the editor menu disapears, the screen stays focused where it was and the player does not apear. I tryed deleting the object and reseting the gate but nothig helps and to top it of i can't acces the world from the main screeen the same way i can't acces the spider cave.Sounds like the script hit an error. I need more details to fix this.
Thank you for your feedback!
Nice world design, by the way :)
Anyway...
I added a new feature to the world builder, a window that lets you examine all of a sprite's variables by clicking on it. Very handy for debugging and figuring out exactly what you can do with functions. Variables that are not shown in red can be modified by functions. You can't view objects in arrays yet, but functions can't access objects in arrays yet anyway.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 12, 2017, 03:48:39 pm
And now for some more thouhts and ideas. (I actualy started to write them down, so i do not forget them.)
The tag list for gates is not compleatly visible, so making it scrollable or expandable would be helpful.
Will we get an option to coppy our whole world in text format, so we can make our ouwn backups and offline editing?
I personaly would allways wellcome an option to delete my account. Not that there is much practical use, but leaving behind a blank slate if so desired is very satisfaing.
All this writing makes my very selfconstious about my english abillities. I can figuratively feel how repetive some of my word choices are and at least every two sentences i have to look up how a word is properly written. And then some ... .
Edit:
Now the gates are acting up in a whole other way. If i do not have "Allow exit" checked i can not interact with them at all and if i have it checked, but the destination is the same room or blank, it throws me back in the world builder respectivly main menu, depending on where i came from. If not logged in it is the same for gates without "Allow exit", but with it it becomes the main menu no mater which world the destination is and black screen if the destinaion is blank.
And of course you now have fixed the bug which allowed me to look at your world in the editor and i can not look why your first gate still works. :(
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 12, 2017, 04:12:27 pm
Saving and loading a world's data as text will be an option.
Deleting an account is possible, although worlds are stored according to their original owner so I will have to work out what to do with orphaned worlds.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 13, 2017, 09:21:38 am
Apropos gates. The only gate travel which seems to work for me is to an yet unvisited world. In all other cases it kicks me into the main menu or editor.
Do you have any recomandations for image hosting? I am curently using DeviantArts sta.sh, which i am pretty sure is not its intended use.
Edit:
Also forgot to mention that as of yet i still have to succeed in establishing any interaction with an object, besides having it follow me because i entered its aggro range.
Though i like the custom animation system, as it allowes me to have multipple sprites in one image.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 13, 2017, 10:18:27 am
I'll have to do more tests with gates to see what's up with them. By the way, disable room persistence if you have it enabled, it has some weird behavior right now.
Placing multiple gates could be an issue. I do plan on making a system that penalizes you for having too many public gates though, possibly by basing the speed at which your world drains on the number of public gates.
I typically use photobucket for image storage. There will be a proper upload system later though.
Edit: Figured it out: your world's ID has a colon in it. Since gate paths are strings separated by colons (owner:world:room:gate), this messes up the path.
I'll have to put in a name validator. In the meantime, avoid using special characters in object names. (Titles, which are displayed in the gate locator, can be whatever you like.)
You can change the id of a world in the world builder, although this will actually duplicate it when you save it. You will have to reload all existing gates, since they will still point to the original name (but they are broken anyway).
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 13, 2017, 12:02:12 pm
I used the dialogue event to check wheter i trigered something so jokes on me. The gate event triggred just fine. I had a look at the walk and jump event, but coldn't get them to work. If i'm interpreting it correctly, i have to specify the payer as the target? Woud that be something like "_player" in the target field?
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 13, 2017, 01:11:00 pm
Nice.
I used the dialogue event to check wheter i trigered something so jokes on me. The gate event triggred just fine. I had a look at the walk and jump event, but coldn't get them to work. If i'm interpreting it correctly, i have to specify the payer as the target? Woud that be something like "_player" in the target field?
Close. To specify the player, you would use _game._avatar (_game specifies the game object itself, _avatar is a property of the game that points to the player's sprite.)
I know that there will need to be a proper guide at some point, but you can sort of try and deduce things using the object viewer. Variables in blue are objects that can be clicked to view their available variables (except for the ones in arrays which don't work yet). My advice is to view it when paused with the escape button, it's easier to navigate that way.
The "log" event is intended for debugging, it logs text to the browser console (press F12 and click console). You'll have to deal with all my logging too though. I will probably replace it with an in-game log so that it doesn't get mixed up with my junk.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 13, 2017, 05:08:40 pm
You can designate tiles over a square area in the tilemap editor by holding the shift button.
Sticky tiles (which disable jumping) and pits now work. Pits kill you instantly for now, which resets the room. You can jump over them.
You can download your world's data as JSON text, then upload it to the editor.
An "each" event has been added for iterating arrays. While running an each loop, "#" will point to the current object. For example, you can do something to every member of a class by making an each loop "each _layer._sprites", then target only sprites of a particular class using 'If #._name = "whatever"' inside this loop. Timed commands (walking and jumping) can be a bit odd here, so don't go too overboard.
"@" is used in functions as a shortcut for the player sprite.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 14, 2017, 11:03:51 am
You can now make multi-tile gates by holding down the shift button to select an area. When travelling from one gate to another, you are placed in a position based on the position you exited. So if you make a 4 tile long exit and a 4 tile long entrance and then exit through the third tile you will be placed on the third tile.
There are also eight types of gates, which have different effects when you enter, the most important being walking gates.
Shift: No effect, basically instant transportation. Default option.
Walk: You must give the gate a direction. When you are placed on this gate, you will appear on a tile next to the gate instead of on the gate itself. This way you can ensure that players won't walk backwards off the area. Walk gates should logically be paired with other walk gates with opposite directions.
Here <-> Inside and Here <-> Outside: I struggled a bit naming these. Basically these are for entrances and exits to caves, buildings, etc. If the current room is outside, use Here <-> Inside, if the current room is inside, use Here <-> Outside. These also work like Walk gates in that you appear next to them based on their associated direction.
Ground Hole and Sky Hole: For dropping into rooms from above and bouncing into them from below. The effect is not done yet.
Bed: Designates a sleeping area, meditation spot, Matrix plug-in spot, anywhere that you could conceivably a world in a dream. The area they lead to will be considered a dream. Entering a room through a "Bed gate" is waking up from the dream. There can be multiple dream-layers. The effect is not done yet.
Teleport: You will vanish or appear with a poof. The effect is not done yet.
When used to locate random gates, the gate type will affect the target as well to make transitions more sensible. Walk gates lead to opposite-direction Walk spots, Shifts and Teleports lead to other Shifts and Teleports, Inside and Outside connect to each other, as do Ground and Sky Holes. Beds will have special rules; they can connect to any gate type but will probably have lower connection probability to prevent their overuse.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 14, 2017, 01:51:13 pm
Another thing are all those options for objects, i sugest grouping them into basic categories and showe them in collapsible tabs.
Will you keep the option to walk out of the world? As far as i can tell the only use it has, is that you can make some realy sneaky secret pasages AND you must/have to ? hope that the player doesn't walk away towards oblivion.
Pits. :(
Only jumping over them i get going is per script, they basicly work as an insatnt death tile and not at all how they used to work in the original. So that would be my sugestion make a death/reset tile type and have the open space act as a jumpable pit if there is ground behind it and as a solid wall if there is an inacesible tille behind it.
Also i would like to request that open space tiles get overwriten by all other nondefault tiles from other tilesets. That way i could designate the default tile as open space, so all void is automaticly unwalkable but parts of the world which are built fom another tileset still are.
Alternatively have "open space" as default when no options are choosen and have "walkable" as an option.
Are the background image settings new or did i just never scroll that far down? :o
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 14, 2017, 02:25:36 pm
The pit physics aren't finalized yet, they're just a placeholder so they function as jumpable obstacles. You jump with the C button by the way.
It's basically this big question that has been in the game since the beginning: Grid-locked motion is bad for action, but good for puzzles. The way the tiles worked in the original was tied heavily to the grid-locked nature of the game. With free motion comes voluntary jumping, and that means you need to time your jumps over the pit. Unless I make it so you automatically jump when you try to step onto a pit like in the 3D Zelda games...? Actually that's not such a bad plan now that I think about it. Maybe while dashing?
I was already planning on different gate types, but I did get the multi-tile gate idea from looking at your world.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 14, 2017, 03:05:37 pm
It's doable, but it might also be too confusing to have different tile properties use different rules, and I'd rather avoid making it more confusing than it is.
The thing is, for all but the simplest of tilemaps the ideal practice is to make the visible tilemaps non-colliding and then add an invisible tilemap on top of them to handle the collisions. It makes it much easier to keep track of what you're building.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on February 14, 2017, 03:29:56 pm
As for jumping, my own preferences lay with only manual jumping in the free movment mode and only automatic jumping in while on grid.
I don't see why i would place invisibe tiles over pits other than intentionaly prevent jumping over them or by accident. But then how about enforcing what you have described? Make all normal tilles propertyless and than have a special tileset, which contains tilles with all distinct option combinations, colour coded, half opaqe and only visible while editing the current layer.
Also please add a way to find invisible tilles, like filling all invisible pixels with solid orange temporarily or something. Finding these things is a pain and involves a whole bunch of random clicking around.
Btw. how can i leave from a world to the main menu, other then opening the editor and relouding the page?
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 14, 2017, 06:02:31 pm
There will be a default tileset containing all of the basic tile types. However since you can mix tile properties together in different ways I don't want to restrict tile properties to it. There may also be a point where you can give functions to tiles and that will open up a whole new set of rules.
There might be grid-lock tiles later, to designate grid areas. However, you can set the player to grid motion with a function, set @._grid to 1.
It is now possible to change the size of sprite images using the Image Scale property. You can also use _rand to get a random number in an expression. Both of these are used in The Nope Room.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 15, 2017, 05:21:31 pm
I may make a more specific editor for creating large, complex dialogue trees more easily later, but this will suffice for now.
You can insert variables and expressions into text boxes. Parts of the text that are in {curly braces} will be evaluated as expressions. For example, "Hello, {_game._username}!" can be used to greet the player.
There are still some more things to be done with dialogue, which will come along with new targeting and conversation mechanisms. There will also be free text inputs, although the usefulness of those will be limited.
Despite all this, I'd like to discourage excessive use of dialogue trees for atmospheric reasons. Basically if world builders "put words into the player's mouth", the player's personality may change arbitrarily from world to world, making them harder to characterize from the player's perspective. To that end, I'm considering the idea of including certain "gestures" into the game that will allow the player to communicate with NPCs in ways that do not involve dialogue trees. I don't want to overdo it with the buttons though. I'm thinking four main gestures: threat/anger, peace/calm, laugh/taunt, and surrender/sadness. In addition to being possible reactions to dialogue, these gestures can have additional effects on enemies and neutral creatures, like provoking them into attacking, scaring them away, or getting them to join you.
There will still be dialogue trees of course, but I think it would be a nice touch to give players another option for communication, letting most worlds maintain the player as a (mostly) silent protagonist.
I am playing around with the controls, so some things may feel different. Jump height has been lowered significantly to give free-motion and grid-motion similar capabilities; you can now only jump over one pit at a time while dashing. The shift button is used for dashing.
There is an interesting effect where jumping repeatedly makes you move a little faster, especially if you time your button presses well, but also makes your movement harder to control. While initially unintended, I rather like the effect and may utilize it later.
It is worth noting that all player physics only apply to default behavior. You can use a function to change any player variable you want, like _jump, _speed, _accel, and so on. Or you can simply turn the player sprite into a custom creature, that's always fun...
Oh, right, if your world looks weird, Daren, it's because I changed the rendering order of layers and tilemaps to operate in reverse. Basically so that layers and tilemaps that are "on top" in the object list will appear "on top" in the game, making it more intuitive. You can reorder them easily enough though.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 16, 2017, 05:10:27 pm
One plan I have with the creature physics is that it should be reasonably simple to turn the player into any given sprite, at least as long as you don't make their custom behaviors too complex. A "change into" event with the player (@) as the target lets you test out your custom object in-game.
EDIT: You can use basic attacks now. Basically you target an enemy by holding Z while facing them, and then collide with them to attack. This is also how enemies attack you (they choose a target on an enemy team, then run into it). If your attack is on cooldown, you will not be able to do damage.
I'm planning on making a default "defense" property as well; targeting an enemy will automatically defend you from their attacks, but strong attacks will be able to break your guard. Enemies will also be able to do this.
EDIT2: To deal with the multiple tilemap and pit issue, I added a new type of tile, "Floor". These tiles do nothing on their own, except they cancel the effects of pits occupying the same tile. So by designating a type of tile specifically as a floor, you can designate empty tiles as pits and not have to worry about them.
You can also exit to the main menu by pressing "Q". There will be a proper status and item menu there later, when there are items and things to show on it.
Still messing around with controls to get a result that feels natural. Keyboard limitations are also an issue, since most keyboards can't have more than 2 keys held down at the same time. The dash button is Z right now. This may change. Actually, I'll probably just make it possible to customize controls.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 22, 2017, 04:46:36 pm
"Background effects" actually apply to the entire layer. This means you can create parallax background layers with sprites and tilesets that interact with each other in the background, making a cool 3D effect like a battle between two distant armies in the sky. You can also turn whole layers transparent. With functions, it may even be possible to make a pseudo-3D area like some of the bosses from the SNES era, though I haven't tried that yet. However, do not put the player in a layer that has, say, and auto-scrolling effect, or they will be forced off screen. (Maybe in the future this could be used for auto-scrolling levels, but for now it's just a logical bug.)
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on February 23, 2017, 08:48:17 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 23, 2017, 09:28:10 am
This is amazing. The clientside is in Javascript, right? if so, i think i could help you :)
What kinds of things do you want to help with? I'm working on pathfinding now.
If you want to look at it and offer suggestions (it is kind of spaghetti), nothing's stopping you. Protecting Javascript is a futile endeavor anyway.
Post by: Kamani on February 26, 2017, 01:34:24 am
Edit: Trying to figure out the editor, I may have made a junk level. Oops. Well, deleted
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 28, 2017, 02:08:26 pm
You can't do too much with it yet, aside from making layers spin around (which unfortunately seems to cause significant slowdown) and making free-rotating sprites. But, it opens up a lot of possibilities. It's basically like the SNES Mode 7 graphics system. I'm going to play with it a bit and see what sort of options can be made easily accessible to world builders.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 03, 2017, 08:36:57 am
Urgh, I'm spending too much time with this graphical fun and not enough with the actual meat of the project. Next on the list is making proper combat skills, finalizing the physics engine, and finding a happy medium between utilizing pathfinding AI and not slowing down gameplay to a crawl. I guess the parameters of pathfinding intelligence should be customizable.
Post by: Kamani on March 04, 2017, 05:53:05 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 05, 2017, 05:07:36 am
The main issue I'm having with the physics is working out stats that are both simple and flexible. On the one hand I want it to have things like mass, force, balance, elasticity, hardness, shear modulus and blood sugar, on the other hand I want the game to be accessible to players who just want to make an enemy that deals 5 damage and has 10 hp without having to deal with engineering homework. Too many options can be overwhelming.
Edit: How to determine the exact balance between operating as an autonomous creature and operating as a physics object? Three words: drunken master stat.
Post by: Kamani on March 06, 2017, 04:34:27 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 07, 2017, 05:14:48 am
On the other hand, maybe streamlining the game as a whole wouldn't be such a bad thing. Is it important for a world building and exploring game to have platforming action, shmup arcade gameplay, and a hitbox-based fighting system? Or is a mildly action RPG where you click where you want to go and who you want to attack or talk to enough? I haven't been getting much feedback on these ideas, maybe I'm overcomplicating things.
Maybe part of my problem is that I'm trying to make BW be too many things at once. It was originally supposed to be a world building game focused on exploration and individual storytelling. Just because it can have an elaborate physics system doesn't mean it should...
Post by: Arx on March 07, 2017, 05:43:17 am
Post by: Kamani on March 07, 2017, 07:50:43 am
Post by: Asgarus on March 09, 2017, 04:25:27 am
Thinking about the possibility of making Boundworlds playable on a phone. On the one hand, given its open-world and exploratory nature, it could do well as a casual phone game I think. On the other hand, phone control schemes are quite different than keyboard oriented ones, which means that for a game to function well on both, the number of things that are possible will probably have to be reduced...
On the other hand, maybe streamlining the game as a whole wouldn't be such a bad thing. Is it important for a world building and exploring game to have platforming action, shmup arcade gameplay, and a hitbox-based fighting system? Or is a mildly action RPG where you click where you want to go and who you want to attack or talk to enough? I haven't been getting much feedback on these ideas, maybe I'm overcomplicating things.
Maybe part of my problem is that I'm trying to make BW be too many things at once. It was originally supposed to be a world building game focused on exploration and individual storytelling. Just because it can have an elaborate physics system doesn't mean it should...
You could limit the mobile functionality to just exploring and playing other players' mini games.
Limiting the whole game just so that mobile players have the same possibilities as PC players is not a good solution in my opinion.
I don't think anyone would expect a mobile game to be more than it can be.
Leave the editing and creating stuff to the PC players at first, and maybe add a few simple editing tools for mobile players later.
But whatever you do, make it step by step, not all at once, but I don't think I have to tell you that ;)
The physics system though is something I would add rather sooner than later.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 09, 2017, 03:46:31 pm
I made a passable phone-friendly D-pad to substitute for the arrow keys, and am working on the "technique" and targeting systems together. Since playing as different types of sprites is going to be one of the main fun things you can do (either through transformation or body swapping) the control scheme has to be fairly flexible to accommodate all or at least the majority of "normal" creatures' abilities.
The default scheme will probably be more leaning towards the RPG side of action-RPG. Maybe something akin to Secret of Mana mixed with Chrono Trigger; not strictly turn-based but where there is a bit of cooldown time between attacks where you can move around to reposition yourself and select your next technique. Of course, if you simply make the cooldowns short enough it becomes full action, so the system becomes pretty flexible. The hardest part of this is figuring out what to do with sprites that have poor handling (low friction or slow turning speed) and therefore cannot be relied on to move into the positions they are aiming for, causing their attacks to go all over the place. But I guess if you make hard to control sprites that's probably more or less what you want to happen.
There's also a fairly elaborate knockback system that has to be worked out; basically knockback can be converted into flinching, staggering backwards, and falling over depending on a creature's balance stats, and repeated blows can cause their brain to take damage, reducing balance and making them easier to knock over, where they may be vulnerable to certain techniques. All these stats are optional though, basically the idea is that you can make the mechanics of a creature either simple or complex depending on how much effort you want to put into its design. Sort of like Dwarf Fortress and its various immunity tokens, except that here being immune to everything is the default state.
Post by: Kamani on March 26, 2017, 12:29:55 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 26, 2017, 04:18:28 am
I am still working on this by the way, I'm just avoiding posting too much until I get the physics straightened out. Sprite attributes under the "motion and physics" category may be subject to change, aside from basic ones like speed, acceleration, and gravity. Leaving values at their defaults makes them irrelevant; for example giving a speed value but leaving acceleration and friction at -1 will make them move at a fixed speed. In this way simpler units will have simpler behaviors.
There will probably be an unlocking system to ease players into the world building without overwhelming them with too many complicated options at once. So for now just pretend the more complex physics options don't exist.
I did make some quality of life changes that were in demand like menu categories and movable menu boxes.
Post by: Kamani on March 26, 2017, 11:23:45 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 08, 2017, 04:26:35 pm
First and foremost, there is now a proper file system for uploading images to the server. Every user has their own file system and can add files and folders as they like, as well as access some public resources for sprites and tilesets. You can access the file system by clicking on the "manage" button under any graphic viewer. I'll add new public images over time. This will also be used for managing other resources, like sounds and music.
The sprite graphic system is much more flexible as well. You can flip individual frames horizontally or vertically, letting you use smaller spritesheets. There are also a whole bunch of options for handling sprite directions, in addition to 4 cardinal directions you can use 4 diagonal directions, or even simplify sprites to only allow facing east and west. Both of these options, combined with horizontal flipping, let you create decent-looking sprites with much less effort.
Some options have been added to the "basic player interaction" menu for sprites, specifically the ability to transform the player into another sprite and back again. I did this because I want transformations into different creatures to be a major part of the game.
The combat system is still being fine-tuned, but here is a general rundown of how it will work:
Every combat-capable sprite has a list of techniques. Techniques are similar to functions in that they are basically a list of events, but with a few differences:
Techniques can be triggered by either the AI or by player controls (while transformed into a given sprite). Every technique has an independent cooldown timer and may have MP requirements, minimum and maximum range to a target before it can be triggered, and other conditions which must be met before it can be used.
A techniques is tied to an animation, and each frame of the animation (called "keyframes") can have its own list of events. Events include creating hitboxes, altering the user's stats, and changing momentum. Techniques can alter "poise" on a frame-by-frame basis, which basically amounts to "super armor". They can also have data for general cancels and canceling into other particular techniques.
Hitboxes have independent values for both damage and force.
As for the combat itself, every sprite may have, in addition to HP, a "poise damage" meter, which is increased by taking "force" hits and recovers over time. Every sprite may also have a flinch point, a stagger point, and a knockdown point. When poise damage reaches these points, the sprite will flinch, be knocked back (based on the remaining force of the attack divided by their mass), or fall down.
Sprites will also have "brain" meters. Brain damage will reduce a sprite's ability to recover poise, making it easier to stun them or send them reeling farther with powerful hits. (Sort of like Smash Bros, or maybe Punch-Out...?)
There may also be other meters, like blood, food, and stamina.
All of these stats will be optional and determined on a sprite-by-sprite basis; for example you can imagine a Koopa Troopa as being an extremely simple sprite with a "knockdown point" that allows it to be "flipped" with an attack, all the way up to a complex Dark Souls type enemy with specific stats for each of its various techniques, counters, and so on.
Post by: Kamani on April 20, 2017, 08:36:17 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 02, 2017, 02:03:25 pm
The technique system and controls are coming along rather nicely. If you'd rather check it out first hand rather than hear me talk about it, just open the Arena room, where you can play as three testing characters and fight against a non-stop horde of spiders. (I have nothing against spiders, really, they just happen to be a convenient enemy sprite I had on my computer. I will have to make a friendly spider to make up for all the spider abuse.)
The three testing characters are Freydin the Dark Knight, Joe the Ronin, and Ronald the Gunslinger. (OC donut steel) The cool thing is how simple it is to create new characters that feel completely different.
You use the shift key to lock on to enemies and the Z, X, and C keys to use different skills. There is also a system for interrupts, where you can cancel one skill into a different skill, as demonstrated by the Ronin's Slice and Dice technique (X to dash, C to return to the original spot) and the Gunslinger's six-shooter (hold the Z button for multishot).
You can also do it on mobile by clicking the skill buttons, though the phone controls are clunky and awkward by comparison.
There's still quite a bit left to be done before the combat system is done (projectiles are still under construction, and sidescrolling sections open up a whole bunch of other issues, which will be resolved along with 3D dash maneuvers) but I would appreciate comments on how the action feels and any improvements you can think of.
Post by: Kamani on May 02, 2017, 09:14:24 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 04, 2017, 10:51:23 am
I personally feel though that combat in this sort of game should be a bit less hack'n'slash - I'd instead say you should have abilities that fire less often, but do a lot more damage (for both the player and monsters).
So lets say you're OC Roland, you could do some high accuracy shooting, but you'd be fixed in place whilst that charges up. In the mean time, spiders have a 'charge' ability, which needs a few seconds whilst they get ready to attack.
It'd become more of a game of timing and tactics rather than button mashing which I think would fit the game play much better.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 04, 2017, 02:42:30 pm
The technique creation system is quite flexible though, so it's basically up to the world builder how twitchy or tactical they want their world's combat to feel - I made the demo characters quick because it's harder to make that feel natural so it serves better as a proof of concept. I guess the only major decision to make concerns the default player character's physics, since ideally they should feel natural in as many worlds as possible. Maybe I'll make their basic attack chargeable.
Post by: Retropunch on May 05, 2017, 08:20:16 am
I worry that if you left it open it wouldn't really work - lets say you have a world that has 30 enemies rushing you at once, compared to a world where you're tactically taking on 1 enemy at a time, the combat would have to be fundamentally different. You couldn't have a 2 second charge up on your main attack if you were dealing with 30 enemies.
Not to retread old ground, but as admirable as giving world creators as much freedom as possible is, I really think you run the risk of it all becoming just a lot of systems that sorttttt of work together rather than some great core systems that people can build their adventures around. If you want it to be a super mario esque bash-em-up then that's great, or if you want it to be a Dark Souls combat online then that's great too - but I really don't think you can do both well.
Post by: Kamani on May 05, 2017, 09:39:41 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 06, 2017, 02:59:54 pm
I like the idea of being able to do anything myself.
Me too.
I'm building BW as the level design tool I would have enjoyed when I was a kid - easy enough to spit out a quick dungeon, but with enough flexibility to pretty much build your own game. Striking a balance is tough, but I have some plans, mostly revolving around unlockable features (start out with basic tools and preset objects, then unlock deeper-level modification tools later).
As for the baseline playstyle, I'd say Zelda is a good example of what I'm going for. It is also a good example of how changing the average enemy can change the feel of the game, or an area within the game, while leaving the player controls unchanged - some enemies can swarm you and die in one or two hits, others (usually minibosses) require you to play defensively and wait for the right moment to strike. Dark Souls uses the latter type as its basic mook, while Super Mario is composed almost entirely of the first. Any game with a level creator and availability of both enemy types will produce examples of either kind of game, or a mix.
This (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenRuiz/20130316/188644/Important_Distinctions_Within_Combat_Heavy_Games.php) is a nice post detailing different "feels" for fighting systems, which I made use of while designing the combat system. I want it to be possible to make worlds that occupy all parts of the spectrum.
Transformations could be an issue as far as making every world feel like a different game, but I hope to make the player character's controls robust enough that most world builders won't feel the need to bother with it, or make a handful of default transformations that will be available to all players, making the game more coherent. Unique transformations could be fun occasional diversions, sort of the way they were used in Banjo-Kazooie.
A chargeable basic attack could increase the potential application of the default avatar - you can hack and slash through weak enemies, but stronger enemies might have heavy armor and will shrug off non-charged attacks, forcing you to plan ahead more while fighting them.
Post by: Retropunch on May 09, 2017, 03:20:05 pm
To use the Dark Souls vs Mario example, they're two different types of games with two different enemy types, and whilst they both work equally well, they wouldn't work if you combined them with the player abilities staying the same. It'd be like making all DS enemies do just one basic attack (you'd be able to floor all of them), or have all of the Mario goons do 12 different timed attacks which kill you in one hit (it'd be incredibly difficult).
As another problem, lets say my attack takes 3 seconds to charge, and I go to world X where creatures rush me in 2 seconds, I can't possibly win. Say I now have a character that does an instant attack, if I go to world Y and the creatures there have a 4 second charge up, I'll win without issue.
Without putting in some sort of structure, you'll end up with the player never getting an enjoyable challenge - it'll always be that the combat is too hard or too easy depending on how the designer has created it.
Post by: Kamani on May 09, 2017, 03:27:08 pm
On the Dark Souls vs. Mario thing: you make the enemies. If you make them do one hit kills, you can give them one attack. If you make them deal normal damage, then you can give them many attacks.
On the Charge Attacks thing: it seemed like you could charge your attack or not charge your attack. Against one enemy with lots of life, you could charge attack to do more damage. Against lots of little enemies, you could not charge to do faster damage.
Note that this is just my understanding of what has been said.
Post by: Retropunch on May 09, 2017, 03:43:34 pm
Based on my understanding:
On the Dark Souls vs. Mario thing: you make the enemies. If you make them do one hit kills, you can give them one attack. If you make them deal normal damage, then you can give them many attacks.
On the Charge Attacks thing: it seemed like you could charge your attack or not charge your attack. Against one enemy with lots of life, you could charge attack to do more damage. Against lots of little enemies, you could not charge to do faster damage.
Note that this is just my understanding of what has been said.
That's fine if that's the combat system, but there does need to be a system in place.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2017, 04:28:46 pm
Based on my understanding:
On the Dark Souls vs. Mario thing: you make the enemies. If you make them do one hit kills, you can give them one attack. If you make them deal normal damage, then you can give them many attacks.
On the Charge Attacks thing: it seemed like you could charge your attack or not charge your attack. Against one enemy with lots of life, you could charge attack to do more damage. Against lots of little enemies, you could not charge to do faster damage.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was going for. I've added an experimental version, although since spiders are the only enemies right now in the demo arena it's hard to see the multiple uses.
I've added the ability to make individual sprites that inherit certain attributes from their class while leaving other attributes modifiable. The green checkbox on the class builder indicates that individual sprites of that class can have adjusted values.
Mostly this is for the sake of convenience when making multiple similar one-use sprites; you don't have to give them each their own class. However, it is also an important bit for the future of the world builder: instead of dumping all the options on the player's head at once, they will unlock ready-made objects with certain attributes that can be modified. (For example, signs will be a default object and the builder will be able to add custom text to the signs.) This will make it easier to understand what all of the options actually do. Only later will they be given the ability to create fully-custom sprite classes.
I've also done some experimenting with status effects. This is not a built in feature yet, but it is possible to make a hitbox that runs a function on collision with a target, a function that creates an "effect" sprite and stores a reference to the target inside it, and make the object apply an effect to the target when updating. Spiders have poison now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 19, 2017, 02:36:36 pm
In addition to physics-related features like projectiles, dashes, knockback, and more, I've decided to add a radical addition to the entire system in the form of exporting and importing packages of objects.
Importing is not yet ready, but basically the idea is that you can export collections of objects that go together (for instance, enemies and their bullets) as a file, which other players can then import into their own worlds. Moreover, imported packages may optionally remain "attached" to their original owner and will automatically be updated when the owner of the file updates them. In addition to allowing you to spread your creations around and/or make use of publicly available objects, this system can also allow you to leave "messages" in other player's worlds using imported objects as a proxy.
As the potential for trolling or otherwise messing with other players' worlds after they include your objects is substantial, I'm going to add optional "sandbox restrictions" that limit the permissions of imported objects.
The same system will also be utilized in the "game" aspect of BoundWorlds; new players will be able to unlock "official" objects in order to ease them into the world building system before they are allowed access to actually create their own objects or import those from other players.
Post by: Kamani on August 19, 2017, 03:52:01 pm
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on August 20, 2017, 01:55:47 pm
Fun fact 2: New objects have a default hitbox size of 0.
Took me a while to figure that one out.
Nice work, i especialy like that i can upload my resources directly in the game. A bit troublesome (for those who draw thier graphics on the fly) is that if you uplaod the modified image under the same name as the old one, you have to reload the cache (i think thats how it is written?) to make the changes visible.
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y369/Toggledit/temple_entrance_zpss1yyieal.jpg)
How can i force my 64*64 door to stay betwen tilles? Sometimes, when i adjustet its location manualy in the editor, from its initial placement, it seemed to stick alright. But then i would go on with other edits and in the next test run the door is dissing me again :'(.
Also becouse i feel like i don't mention it enough: I realy like what you have going here and appreciate that you kept working on it even thought the feedback stopped for months.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 20, 2017, 02:35:30 pm
The browser cache is an issue I have encountered before, I'll have to work out some way of dealing with that.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on August 20, 2017, 04:06:27 pm
The other way to make a grid door stick to the coordinates it's asinged to, is to add another door to the scene. That's the only thing about this wierednes that seems consisten.
My current siuation: The upper door is one that wants to snap to the grid. Then i added the lower one and both stay where they should, but the moment i deleat the lower one, the upper one starts snapping to the grid when i enter the room.
I hope you have an idea whats going on, because i sure don't.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 20, 2017, 04:53:12 pm
I tried fiddling with your data and was able to get it to stick simply by removing all existing copies of the door and then adding a new one in the proper position.
EDIT: Also, setting the graphics to autocenter may help.
You can adjust individual objects more precisely by clicking on them when no class or tileset is selected.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on August 21, 2017, 02:26:26 am
Autocenter didn't help, but while making random edits, to see if it would trigger again, i foud out what the green sqares are for.
Unreleated, could you add the funcionality of the "z" key to the "y" key? I have a qwertz keyboard.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 21, 2017, 02:41:14 am
I guess the best solution for the keys would be to make them customizable, but that will have to wait a bit.
Post by: Asgarus on August 22, 2017, 08:45:33 am
Is there some secret mechanic I'm not aware of?^^
EDIT: Whatever you changed fixed my placement problems :)
EDIT2: One thing I noticed is that if you change the name of an object from inside a room, its name in the global list (in the window where you have objects and rooms listed) doesn't refresh.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 22, 2017, 05:38:08 pm
Packages are in, though they are still only for private use (can't download another player's package yet, which is the main point...but that's coming soon enough). You add objects to a package by opening the package and then clicking the objects. Note that a package must be uploaded independently of the world it's in - if you exit and reload a world after transferring objects to a package, or editing objects that belong to a package, and don't upload the package, those objects will be gone when the world is reloaded. I'll have to fix up the interface to make it more intuitive.
Packages can contain other packages. In this way you can create an object hierarchy - for example, several different packages can make use of the same object by placing that object in a different package and then including that package in the other packages.
Post by: Asgarus on August 22, 2017, 05:45:29 pm
EDIT: Whatever you changed fixed my placement problems :)
EDIT2: One thing I noticed is that if you change the name of an object from inside a room, its name in the global list (in the window where you have objects and rooms listed) doesn't refresh.
EDIT:
I have a feature request ;)
It would be pretty cool if you could select 2x2, 3x3 and bigger chunks from a tileset and directly place them like that in the room.
That way it's easier to handle if you want larger than 32x32 tiles, since you could directly place a 128x128 tile for example.
ANOTHER EDIT:
Additionally to that, maybe the possibility to select and copy areas from the room (already placed tiles).
HERE WE EDIT AGAIN:
Another idea: Being able to block passage to a tile from a certain direction.
In this example, the door would be in a layer above the player (as well as the black tiles to the right of it)
(http://i.imgur.com/dnPqhXg.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 23, 2017, 12:10:45 pm
Directional tiles, and doorways such as you suggested, are most likely going to be in at some point, though I'm still working on the general implementation. You can do something similar with 1 pixel thick solid door sprites in the meantime, just make sure to center the graphics properly.
Keep the suggestions coming :)
By the way, did you figure out what was causing your earlier room to have massive slowdown? I was trying to figure it out before you removed it.
Post by: Asgarus on August 23, 2017, 01:00:30 pm
I'm recoding some tilemap stuff already, necessary to get global tilesets to work. Once that's done, copying and pasting an area of the room seems like a reasonable enough addition.
Directional tiles, and doorways such as you suggested, are most likely going to be in at some point, though I'm still working on the general implementation. You can do something similar with 1 pixel thick solid door sprites in the meantime, just make sure to center the graphics properly.
Keep the suggestions coming :)
By the way, did you figure out what was causing your earlier room to have massive slowdown? I was trying to figure it out before you removed it.
Well, doorways themselves are already possible by using different layers.
The 1 pixel sprite is a good idea. For whatever reason I was assuming tile by tile movement when going through it in my head, even though I know that that's not the case Oô
I removed the background and the slowdown disappeared. Which is weird, since your Demo Dungeon has the same background but no slowdown.
I added it again and the slowdown came back. Gonna leave it out for now.
EDIT: Some more things: I'd like to be able to log in by pressing enter ;)
And it would be nice if you could navigate the editor using WASD.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 25, 2017, 10:52:14 am
There are two major aspects of the system to this that have been implemented. First off, backtracking gates are now a thing. You know the "allow backtrack" and "allow exit" checkboxes that never really did anything? Now, if you exit through a Gate that has "allow backtrack" ticked, and travel to a Gate that has "allow exit" checked, when you pass back through the Gate you will return to the place you had left. Backtracking data is reset whenever you exit a world using the "Q" button, more options for this will be created later.
Second, gate tags now work. If you specify a tag describing your location and a tag describing the location of your destination, and you don't specify a specific Gate to travel to, the game will attempt to find an appropriate target.
For example, if I make the outside of an ancient temple in my world, and create a Gate in it that has "ancient" and "temple" as its destination tag list, the game will try to find an existing public Gate with the "ancient" and "temple" tags and place it there. And if backtracking is active in both worlds, it will remain there until the backtracking list is reset. Gate types will be used to specify appropriate gates better later (i.e. a "walking north" Gate will try to link with a "walking south" Gate) but that's not implemented yet.
If an appropriate Gate cannot be found, or if "allow exit" is checked but no tags are specified, a random target Gate will be selected instead.
Note that backtracking overrides a Gate's regular destination (i.e. the destination of a Gate is its default target). If you want to make sure a public Gate will always lead to a particular location, uncheck the "allow exit" box. (A bit of a misnomer, since you can exit through any gate that has a destination specified).
Post by: Asgarus on August 25, 2017, 12:03:29 pm
(Tested in Firefox and Chrome)
(http://i.imgur.com/J0STVxI.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 26, 2017, 12:23:15 pm
Post by: Asgarus on August 26, 2017, 03:00:06 pm
It's after I log in. The black box stays the same size but there is more content than before I log on.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 26, 2017, 04:25:06 pm
Post by: Asgarus on August 26, 2017, 05:13:26 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 27, 2017, 08:33:14 am
I'm adding custom parameters for sprites now, so when importing them you can give world builders more control over their use. Similar to what the green checkboxes do now, but more customizable. Once that's done, I'll start building the default packages. Not sure yet what I'll put in them, stuff like doors, switches, blocks of various types, basic enemies and NPCs, and something to let the player transform into other things. Maybe a few recurring characters.
Actually, I should probably make sounds first, shouldn't I...
Post by: Asgarus on August 27, 2017, 04:00:26 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 28, 2017, 12:28:19 am
I want to know the average "coins-per-second" in classic games. That is, how many of the basic collectible is a player expected to collect in a level that takes a certain amount of time.
There must be a place on the Internet where I can go to request research such as this.
Post by: Asgarus on August 28, 2017, 05:22:16 am
I guess it's not that easy to answer, since it probably heavily depends on the game.
I'm sure there are far more rings to gather in Sonic the Hedgehog than there are in Super Mario Bros.
And considering that you are not bound to a specific type of game in boundworld, it makes it even more complicated.
Also, in Sonic and Mario, rings/coins only give extra lives, while in boundworld they have more uses (iirc, you said something about using them to build worlds).
Also, people building their levels can basically place as many coins as they want, can't they?
And if not, where would one set the limit, what would be the requirements to place coins in my world?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 28, 2017, 09:52:46 am
I'm not going to place any direct restrictions on a world builder's ability to modify a player's score as they choose, so the question is, how to make the collection of...collectibles meaningful?
One way or another, the major restriction will be time. The current planned system works as follows: For every second a player spends in a world, they automatically generate "shells". They can also collect "sparks" (the basic collectible) which are placed by the world builder with no restrictions. However, when traveling to a new world, any sparks which are not paired to a shell are destroyed. Therefore, the amount of sparks collected from a world is limited to the amount of time a player spends in it.
Also, when leaving a world, each collected spark can "purify" a certain number of unpaired shells. These purified shells are converted into sparks for the worldbuilder.
This system encourages world builders to create worlds that have a number of sparks roughly proportional to the amount of time they expect a player to spend getting them. Too many sparks per second, and there are no unpaired shells left to purify. Too few, and a the world builder gets a proportionally small amount back. As for how and where sparks are collected, that depends on the worldbuilder's preference; they could be laid out as a trail (as in Mario or Sonic) or given in bundles as a prize for completing challenges.
The exact proportions of this equation need to be refined (how many sparks can be held in a shell, how many shells can a spark purify, probably a fractional amount to balance the reward for exploring vs building).
Also, quitting a world (instead of leaving through a Gate) will give no reward to either the world builder or the player. So players will be discouraged from quitting in the middle and world builders will be discouraged from making inescapable areas.
Sparks will not be used to build worlds, but they may be used to protect them from The Corruption. They may also serve as currency in shops, which I still need to work out.
Post by: Asgarus on August 28, 2017, 10:19:43 am
I think demanding sparks (or shells if you follow my idea^^) for some of the world building functions could be a good idea.
Rooms could have a cost, which grows with the size of the room.
That way a world builder has to work to increase their "realm".
That could be interchangeable as well. If I have 3 rather small rooms but want a bigger room, I can just trade the small rooms back and get a single, bigger, one.
There wouldn't be any loss when "selling" rooms.
Force-quitting a world can have different reasons. Maybe the player should be able to return to the last position, in case they had a disconnect for whatever reason or simply run out of time.
What is the corruption?
Talking about shops, there are a few questions to be asked as well.
Do you create global items everybody is limited to? Or can people create local items for their worlds or even global items, too?
If the latter is the case, will they be able to set any price they want, or does the price get calculated automatically, depending on the stats of the item?
If it's only pre-made global items, does a world builder have to buy them from the system in order to sell them in their worlds, or is a shop simply something static and the world builder doesn't even get the money (sparks/shells)?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 28, 2017, 12:10:30 pm
Anyway, I thought of possibly making a cost for things, but I would rather make the cost after the world is created. The reason for this is because, due to the flexibility of the function system, room size is actually a very poor indicator of how "big" a world actually is. It is perfectly possible to make, for instance, a shoot-em-up with a scrolling background that can be a whole game inside a single small "room". Likewise, limiting object placement is pointless when it is simple enough to make an object that spawns the other objects after the room is loaded. The real cost to a world is data, but it's hard to estimate how much data a world takes until it is actually compiled.
Force-quitting will happen at some point (obviously you're not going to be playing the game forever) but if people regularly quit from the same world, it probably is a good indicator that that world has issues. There might be a means of storing specific details about quitting, such as location (I already made a method for determining if the player quit during an infinite loop, which can happen if a function is poorly programmed) and maybe send feedback to the world's creator if a bunch of people quit in the same general area. There will probably be some means of saving your game, and most likely once this is in traveling to a new world will auto-save.
Disconnecting isn't as big of an issue as you might think; BoundWorlds is actually very rarely "connected" to the server at all - pretty much only when saving or loading a new world, and some object lists in the world builder like the Gate tags and file system. I might want to add some checks to discourage hacking but on the whole it's not a huge priority; BoundWorlds is essentially a single-player game and a means of creating and distributing single-player games (or game fragments). If I ever do go multiplayer (it's come up, but isn't in the plans) that will obviously change.
Corruption is the "Prime Evil" of the BoundWorlds story. I won't get into too much detail except to say it was inspired by Zalgo. It tries to eat worlds and is driven back by sparks, either earned by or invested in those worlds. It is also responsible for deleting garbage worlds. The exact details will be worked out later.
The main point of items will be saving data across sessions; in most other respects they are essentially glorified variables. Where it gets complicated is making items globally accessible. They will be tied to packages (which makes sense; package a creature's "loot" along with the creature) but allowing the "owner" of an item to limit its distribution, while making it accessible to other players, is tricky business. Since they are, as stated, glorified variables, anyone who has permission to edit an item's value can do whatever they want with it; give the player a million of them or take them all away, nothing is stopping them. Giving them a cost in sparks could work, limiting the ability of a player to take too many away from a world, and it can also allow there to be "hard-coded" shops that buy items for set prices. You also run into the issue of the item's owner changing its value while players are already carrying them around. I have a few ideas but it's all pretty up in the air right now.
There will most likely be several kinds of items depending on their use (key items that can only be edited by the owner and are used to save progress in that world's "story", vendor trash dropped from enemies and basically functions as flavored sparks, and stuff that runs a function when "used" but only in worlds that have imported that item, so you can't use your "kill everything on the screen bomb" unless the world builder allows it.)
Post by: Asgarus on August 28, 2017, 02:44:54 pm
What do you mean with data? The file sizes?
Okay I somehow thought it was partly multiplayer.
The corruption sounds interesting ;) Especially that you have to protect your rooms from it.
Your ideas about items sound good, too. A completely different idea than what I thought they would be.^^
Post by: Derpy Dev on August 29, 2017, 08:38:13 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 29, 2017, 02:32:50 pm
So... I might be going in over my head here, but I'd be willing to make some tile sets if you're still looking for someone to do so. Just tell me the dimensions for each individual tile and more info on what you want (grass floor, dungeon floor, dungeon wall) and I'll give it a try.
That would be nice! For the "official" tilesets I'm going for something very basic and "blocky", where each tile represents a particular kind of space, thereby minimizing the time a player would need to spend in order to make their world look good. This is the current baseline tileset:
(http://indigofenix.com/boundworlds/users/00/00/00/00/00/resources/images/tilesets/basic.png)
The basic tile types are floor, solid blocks, "drop" walls used for platforming sections or jumping down from cliffs, ladders, slippery (ice), sticky (sand), water, and grass. Also pits, but that generally uses a blank space. (Water and grass are not yet working, so these are placeholders for now. Grass is intended to be "tall grass" that partially covers the player, and they will partially sink into water.)
Tilesets can be much more elaborate than this of course. If you create a tileset you can upload it as a package, which other players will be able to import once the package importer is done.
The package system and custom object parameters are nearly done, I'm just putting them through their last bit of testing and bugfixes before they go public.
Oh, by the way I fixed the background slowdown bug, so that's there.
Post by: Asgarus on August 30, 2017, 09:30:06 am
Oh, by the way I fixed the background slowdown bug, so that's there.
What was causing it?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 30, 2017, 11:11:13 am
Oh, by the way I fixed the background slowdown bug, so that's there.
What was causing it?
The difference between the Demo Dungeon and your world was that the Demo Dungeon had tiles and objects in the background layer, and therefore was calling some drawing actions besides drawing the background.
...I have no idea why this should make a difference. But calling the same drawing actions in the background drawing function fixed it, so there you go.
Post by: Asgarus on August 30, 2017, 12:24:42 pm
Well, at least it's fixed now ;)
Spoiler: Just programmer things (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 01, 2017, 10:28:43 am
When you save a world after editing an uploaded package, the package will be saved as well. This will cause it to be changed for all worlds that use this package. It doesn't matter much now, but later can cause possible issues when players start importing other people's objects - since you could, for example, import tons of a harmless sprite, and then that sprite's creator turns them all into monsters that kill players in one hit, making your world impossible. I'll need to make some kind of "security sandbox" system to limit the impact of trolls. (You could "claim" the objects in a package to prevent them from being edited by other players, but this means that you won't get updates either.)
You can also create custom variables. If you check the "individual" box (the green checkbox), they can be used as parameters when placing them. These variables can then be used in functions, letting you create more flexible objects for distribution. (The "select" parameter has been removed, but will be added back as soon as I could figure out why it was being buggy). This will also allow you to create custom "resource bars" similar to HP and MP, but that's not in yet so ignore it for now.
I've also started working with sounds, using Javascript's Web Audio API. Right now you can only add background music, but I've already got the basic framework for modifying things like volume, pitch, playback speed, distortion effects, and so on, which will be very fun I think. Unfortunately as this is one of Javascript's relatively newer features it seems to be very different from one browser to the next.
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on September 01, 2017, 05:45:00 pm
My other curent issue is that i sometimes can't save the world. Happens reliably when i create a new one and happened once after several minutes of editing, but haven't tested yet if it is reproducable.
Tileset ordering is iffy. The change of order doesn't update the editor and isn't even saved until you do other edits, like creating a new object. Global tilesets don't respect visibility and opacity options and are ordered the furthest even thought they are first in the "Tilesets" menu.
I'm guesing you are changing things around curently, as i'm prety sure the unsaving order issue was had and resolved already.
Now going on to try the package system.
Post by: Derpy Dev on September 01, 2017, 06:44:16 pm
...No? Okay, have a 32x32 generic tile I procrastinated on for a few to many days.
(http://i.imgur.com/XHPfKMn.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 02, 2017, 12:33:25 pm
I wanted to make an invisible entity and the game helpfully provided me with a white sqare so i wouldnt loose it. "No mater" i thought, "I will just set the size of the image to zero so it isn't rendered." So apearently the editor doesn't know how to handle 0 sized images, the website froze and i had to reload the page.
Whoops. Need to make that impossible. EDIT: Done.
To make an object invisible, uncheck the "visible" checkbox under basic options.
My other curent issue is that i sometimes can't save the world. Happens reliably when i create a new one and happened once after several minutes of editing, but haven't tested yet if it is reproducable.
Okay, going to check that out... EDIT: Fixed. The same issue was actually preventing the creation of packages in new worlds as well, so that's also fixed.
Tileset ordering is iffy. The change of order doesn't update the editor and isn't even saved until you do other edits, like creating a new object. Global tilesets don't respect visibility and opacity options and are ordered the furthest even thought they are first in the "Tilesets" menu.
I'm guesing you are changing things around curently, as i'm prety sure the unsaving order issue was had and resolved already.
Hm, going to look into this. Making global tilesets (and packaged tilesets) possible required a revamping of several tileset-related features and it's possible a few things might have been overlooked.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 06, 2017, 12:23:55 pm
I also added a "play sound" event for functions, so now you can add more sounds besides just background music. To stop a sound that's playing, you can assign it to a variable in the "Play Sound" event and call a "Destroy" event that targets the sound. The volume and pitch controls do not work yet.
There seems to be an issue with uploading large music files, probably due to their size. I'll see what I can do about that.
If you want to get into more complex scripting, you can click on a sprite while running a test to view all of its active variables. Variables in red are read-only; all other variables can be edited through functions using a Set Variable (or Set Temporary Variable for techniques) event. Variables in blue are objects that can be clicked on to view their variables, and also targeted to modify their variables. (There may be some bugs with this system, as there is a huge amount of stuff to keep track of. Save before messing around too much with this and let me know if something doesn't seem to work right).
I'm slowly building the sparks system in the background. One general rule for world building: do not make your world an inescapable trap - you will get no points for players who leave your world using the Q button. Either allow backtracking from your main public Gate or add one or more exit Gates with associated tags.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 07, 2017, 08:23:16 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 13, 2017, 05:18:18 pm
More notably, I'm making a new default player sprite (not in yet, but there are transformation bubbles that let you test it out), and unlike the old one is 32x32 pixels instead of 32x48. There are a couple of reasons for this - it will make worlds easier to build since everything can be based on one tile pieces - for instance, doors can be one tile by one tile instead of needing to be two tiles tall. Building sidescrolling sections will also be more intuitive if the player can fit through one-tile tall openings. But don't worry about worlds built for taller sprites! There's a plot element that explains it - basically, there are several "races" among the worlds. The "little people" are able to travel between the worlds easier, and the player avatar is one of them, which is why they are short. "Little people" include sprites based off of, say, the early Pokemon games, or Link's Awakening. Sprites based on, say, Earthbound or FF6 are more typical world-dwellers, and there may also be "Giants" based on larger sprites. So many art styles can fit into the same universe.
Transformations are still a thing, of course, so any sprite you make can be playable.
Post by: Asgarus on September 13, 2017, 05:28:54 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 16, 2017, 04:12:10 pm
Objects in packages imported from other players are labeled as "read only"; you can place them where you like but you cannot edit the objects directly (although you can view their details). When these objects are updated by their owners, your world will automatically load the updated objects. If you do want to edit them, you can "claim" a package by deleting it and then selecting the "claim" option; this will allow you to edit the objects as if they were your own, but you will no longer receive updates from the original creator. Also take note that any associated image files will remain linked to their original source, so you may want to copy that too, in case the original owner deletes or moves their files.
Packages have a "credits" field so if you copy another player's work (either by copying a package or simply using someone else's images and sounds) be sure to credit them. This will be used later to create automatic credits reels.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 17, 2017, 04:53:12 pm
The spark system is also semi-active, in that earned sparks will be retained using the previously described system. You can't actually view them properly yet though.
I've also made a snazzy new status menu (press Q to toggle it) which will be improved upon once items are implemented and there's something to display in the inventory.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 18, 2017, 03:25:35 pm
I'm adding some more information to the instruction manual too.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 20, 2017, 08:59:48 am
The avatar has been changed to their smaller, halfling size. No more charged attacks; instead your attacks are limited by a stamina bar that causes them to become weaker if you attack too quick. You can also do a quick dash and a dodge-roll to move faster, but it consumes stamina. The overall difficulty of any given enemy hasn't been affected much.
Gates have been tweaked; there are more differences between the different kinds of gates. Teleport and Bed Gates only work if the player's hitbox is inside the gate. Ground Holes and Sky Holes now work properly; you put Ground Holes over a pit in order to create a gate that activates when you fall in. This lets you do things like make a room "on top" of another room, where falling into a pit in the upper floor transports you to the lower floor instead of dying. Don't make public pit gates for now, as these will cause you to fall into them. You can make an object that flings you into the sky under a Sky Hole and your momentum will be retained when you pop out. For now the "ceiling" threshold height is 256, if you go higher than this under a sky hole the gate activates. I'm going to work more on this later.
Also, swimming is now a thing. Only sprites with a swim speed can pass over water tiles.
There is also a "push force" parameter that allows sprites to push other sprites away if their hitboxes overlap without actually making them solid. Push force is reduced by the mass of the sprite being pushed.
Asgarus and Daren, I tweaked your worlds a little bit to fix some compatibility issues.
I've added a lot to the help file; you can access it with the "About BoundWorlds" link on the main page.
I'm going to be away for a few days, so no updates until then.
Post by: Kamani on November 03, 2017, 12:55:52 pm
Edit: I tried opening up the world editor, but it just stayed in the level currently shown on the main screen background. Can't interact with it at all. Any ideas?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 04, 2017, 12:00:38 pm
I stopped getting notifications, but I am now watching again. Oops.
Edit: I tried opening up the world editor, but it just stayed in the level currently shown on the main screen background. Can't interact with it at all. Any ideas?
Looks like there was a bug with creating a new world after the demo was made. It's fixed now.
I am still working on this! I haven't posted in a while because I've been making a complete overhaul in the media file storage system. The new structure will fix a lot of things, such as the browser caching files with the same name and certain issues with updating packages. It will also make sharing images and sounds easier, and include an automatic credit system.
Basically you'll be able to upload media files, which will be stored under a dynamically generated ID. The "personal" file system will still look like it does now, but it will be a "virtual" file system that has no bearing on the actual file location. This means you will be able to re-organize your file system as you like without messing up the objects that use said files. You will also be able to add credits text and other metadata to each file. So if you specialize in making sprite sheets or music, you can upload your files as public, other players can use them, and you can see how often your files are used. In the end, after every "playthrough", the game will automatically generate a "credits reel" based on who contributed to the player's experience. (World Design, Object Programming, Artwork, Sound, etc.)
It's not quite done yet. Should hopefully have it up in another week or two.
Post by: Kamani on November 04, 2017, 12:02:32 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 05, 2017, 02:36:41 pm
Edit: Now I have the opposite problem. The switch I made is deleting itself before the text pops up, and no text pops up at all.
Edit: Well, I found a workaround. It should do for now.
Edit: Okay, now on the death of my giant spider enemy, it is supposed to heal you and open a door. That isn't happening, instead it just dies. Any ideas?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 05, 2017, 05:50:06 pm
Okay, having an issue. When I make an passable switch (with dialogue) trigger on touch and set it to destroy itself when done (and transform it because that didn't work), it triggers multiple times, locking up the player unless they mash escape and space until the text box goes away. Then it destroys itself. Any ideas on how to avoid this?
Edit: Now I have the opposite problem. The switch I made is deleting itself before the text pops up, and no text pops up at all.
Edit: Well, I found a workaround. It should do for now.
Edit: Okay, now on the death of my giant spider enemy, it is supposed to heal you and open a door. That isn't happening, instead it just dies. Any ideas?
To make an object trigger other objects, set it's "triggers objects" parameter (under "basic player interaction" -> "actions") to the trigger code of the objects you want triggered.
Your door has a "trigger code" of 1, and will open when triggered. The spider triggers objects on death; to make the door open when the spider dies it needs to have its "triggers objects" parameter set to 1. As for restoring player HP, the default avatar has 100 HP.
However, objects which transform into something else on death (like an explosion) can be a bit trickier. This is because when an object transforms, if it is "dead", it is fully restored upon transformation; i.e. the dead spider turns into a "living" explosion (which then "dies" when its timer runs out). This can prevent certain triggers that would otherwise happen when the spider "dies". Although it probably shouldn't.
You can bypass this behavior more consistently using functions, or forego the explosion and just use a regular fade-out death animation.
Nice work, by the way! Though that rolling-long-jump exploit you've discovered probably won't remain for the default avatar... I'm planning on changing the rolling physics in general because rolling everywhere to move faster is silly.
Post by: Kamani on November 05, 2017, 06:04:41 pm
Edit: OOPS! I see the issue. I had it set to trigger on 1 instead of trigger 1.
Edit: The issue is actually if you have jumps over variable level terrain. I can create an example if needed, but the camera seems to be adjusting to the lowest empty tile or walkable tile, which makes jumps over the unreliable terrain really messy, and it breaks ladders if you are experiencing it.
Edit: Sometimes, using an attack towards a far away enemy causes you to lunge giant distances. Not sure why.
Edit: You can attack mid air, which breaks jumps.
Edit: Somehow, I ended up in edit mode for the Forbidden Temple map. I didn't do anything, but that could be a serious problem. Not sure why either. One of the times, it gave me the pop up you get for leaving an area you are editing, which lets you hit the continue editing button. The other time, I hit escape or space just after entering an area, so I don't know what happened.
Edit: Oops, didn't mean for that dungeon to be visitable until now. Well, probably nobody noticed anyways. Visitable now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 06, 2017, 12:49:35 am
Don't worry too much about opening the editor in other player's worlds. I mean, it is a bug, but there's a server-side check to make sure that you can't upload edits to someone else's world regardless of how it happens, to stop both hackers and glitches alike.
Post by: Kamani on November 06, 2017, 01:00:32 am
Post by: Kamani on November 06, 2017, 10:12:30 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 06, 2017, 11:51:00 pm
Is there any way to save a switch thing between worlds? I would like to reuse the characters I made, but it would be kind of odd if they had no change if you had met them before.
Not yet. That's one of the things items will be used for.
Post by: Kamani on November 07, 2017, 12:00:10 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 07, 2017, 02:46:57 am
Post by: Kamani on November 07, 2017, 07:30:39 am
Edit: At some point, a tileset fillbucket would be tremendously helpful. Filling in large blank areas gets tedious.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 11, 2017, 11:02:13 am
Edit: At some point, a tileset fillbucket would be tremendously helpful. Filling in large blank areas gets tedious.
You can fill in large areas by holding shift and dragging the mouse. This is mentioned on the instructions page (under "creating your first world"), although perhaps not as prominently as it should be.
You can also make multi-tile gates this way.
Post by: Kamani on November 11, 2017, 11:05:27 am
Edit: Nevermind. Missed the obvious.
Post by: Kamani on November 11, 2017, 07:04:33 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 12, 2017, 01:29:55 am
Post by: Kamani on November 12, 2017, 03:51:49 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 12, 2017, 09:44:26 am
Existing non-packaged image files are left in for now, but they will be depreciated in the future, so you may want to re-upload them to make sure they continue to work.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 12, 2017, 05:00:37 pm
The maximum sparks a player can collect from a world is one spark per second of playing time.
The amount the world builder gains is maximized if the player collects one-fifth of their maximum possible. Anything below this and the world builder will not receive as much. Anything above this will be divided by five and then deducted from the one-fifth shared. If the player collects the maximum possible, the world builder gets nothing.
So, there's a bit of a competition between the player and the world builder. This allows you to create challenges that test the player's skill.
I'm making minor changes to the avatar's abilities. I want to strike a balance between combat and movement abilities, but not to feel too much like a platforming sprite. I've removed the ability to dash in mid-air but extended the range of the dash so that it clears exactly one tile, making hopping across "stepping stones" easier but consumes stamina. Rolling feels nice, but I want to tweak it so it functions more as a combat evasion ability and less of a general movement skill. Not sure what to do about jump height...should the default avatar be able to jump up a whole tile?
Post by: Kamani on November 12, 2017, 08:54:53 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 12, 2017, 11:40:29 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 12, 2017, 11:46:04 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 13, 2017, 03:12:34 am
Code: [Select]
if (sparks > time) sparks = time;
if (sparks > time / 5) return (time / 5) - (sparks / 5);
else return sparks;
This is the current equation. It might not be ideal; I haven't gone over it much, but the general purpose is that in a given world collecting (time/5) sparks should be easy even for casual players, while collecting (time) sparks should be impossible.
The player will not have to think about this ideally; the only impact it will have on them is if they play a poorly-made "treasure" world that gives them a ton of sparks, they will lose a bunch of them when travelling. The system is designed to guide world builders.
I'll make some kind of current ratio indicator so world builders can run tests to establish the difficulty of their world.
Also the returned value is divided by 10 so as not to make building as opposed to travelling too overpowered, but that has no impact on the world building process itself.
Post by: Kamani on November 13, 2017, 07:35:20 am
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on November 13, 2017, 09:44:29 am
Any documentation for the scripting language?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 13, 2017, 12:49:05 pm
Just would like to say: This looks amazing.
Any documentation for the scripting language?
Not yet. That part of the guide has yet to be written, and some bits (particularly the targeting and dash physics) still need refinement.
Most of it should be pretty familiar territory if you've worked with programming systems before, though. (One oddity being that null variables and "false" booleans are equal to 0.) There's also mouseover text to help you, and if you click on any object while in world testing mode a window will appear displaying all of that object's current variables.
You can also view the code of any packaged objects, though the only current public object with any notable scripting is the spider and its poison effect.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on November 13, 2017, 12:53:56 pm
Neat-o.Just would like to say: This looks amazing.
Any documentation for the scripting language?
Not yet. That part of the guide has yet to be written, and some bits (particularly the dash and jump physics) still need refinement.
Most of it should be pretty familiar territory if you've worked with programming systems before, though. (One oddity being that undefined variables and "false" booleans are equal to 0.) There's also mouseover text to help you, and if you click on any object while in world testing mode a window will appear displaying all of that object's current variables.
You can also view the code of any packaged objects, though the only current public object with any notable scripting is the spider and its poison effect.
Also, thats not much of an oddity. Thats a javascript thing.
Post by: Kamani on November 13, 2017, 11:16:33 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2017, 01:14:17 am
Oh, by the way, how does special attack creation work? I looked at bite, and I didn’t see how it worked at all. Could you try to explain this (unless it is in world creation notes)?
Aside from the conditions for use, most of which should be fairly self-explanatory (though I suppose I do need to add the mouseover text), all of the details of a technique are determined in the keyframe editor (under "animation and behaviors").
A technique is essentially a series of one-frame functions. You can navigate the keyframes by clicking on the small bar at the bottom of the left column; vertical lines represent frames that have data set to them.
Let's dissect the spider's Bite technique.
The bite is a close-range (16 pixel range) attack that creates a hitbox that applies a poison effect on contact. An AI spider will check for available targets (nearby enemies) at random, no more than 120 frames since the last check. If it finds a target, it will spend 90 frames attempting to get in range (16 frames away). If it fails to get in range, the technique is cancelled. When in range, the technique will activate. Basically this means the spider will occasionally rush forward to bite a target. (A player controlled spider will skip this step; the technique will be available when 16 frames away from an enemy as long as it is not on cooldown).
The technique itself has 2 keyframes (actually 3, but the first one is just a log event I used for testing). On frame 10 it temporarily sets speed and turning to 0, basically cancelling all movement. On frame 15 it creates a hitbox 16 pixels in front of the spider. (I actually had the positioning off before; it is supposed to be {16,0} not {0,-16}, which places the hitbox to the left of the spider instead. I fixed it, but if you copied the code for your Phantom Spider you will need to change it.) On contact, the hitbox triggers the spider's "venom" function.
Since there's currently no support for real status effects, the venom function works by creating a "poison" sprite (a hidden sprite packaged with the spider) and setting the poison's "target" variable to _other (i.e. the sprite that the hitbox made contact with). When updating, the poison object positions itself on the target and drains the target's HP.
Techniques can be used for many things, although as previously mentioned vertical targeting is still kind of wonky, especially in sidescrolling mode.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 07:49:28 am
Edit: Now that the spider is fixed, I understand how it works a little better. Next project: monsters with cool attacks (and using some of the other monster arts that aren't spider/bat). Edit: Or not. They are gone. More importantly, so is the basic package, including the tileset.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 09:25:13 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2017, 09:31:49 am
Somehow it was made private. I changed it back. Gonna look into it to see how that happened. Probably happened when I edited it.
Edit: Yeah I see what went wrong. Shouldn't happen again. As long as you didn't save, all the objects should still be there.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 09:33:45 am
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 01:48:07 pm
Edit: Also, how many frames are there per second? I looked through the help guide, and I didn't see this. It would be helpful with determining most things related to enemy creation.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2017, 02:21:33 pm
Uhh... What happened to the switch art? It is now the ball art.
Edit: Also, how many frames are there per second? I looked through the help guide, and I didn't see this. It would be helpful with determining most things related to enemy creation.
Oh right, I was going to make a proper switch sprite. Don't worry about it, it'll be replaced. The old sprite is under "lightball", if you were looking for that.
The game runs at 60 FPS (ideally).
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 02:29:41 pm
Anyways, the actually important part is that packages seem to be broken (even for new worlds) if you leave a world while editing it (I both saved and didn't save changes, so I don't know which it was, or if it was both)
Edit: Also, will two worlds with the same filename break stuff? Because I seem to be able to do that, and I can imagine that making issues.
Edit: Oops! Forgot to say thanks for answering my questions, so thanks!
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2017, 02:59:50 pm
I'll check out the package issue. And perhaps make a few more public sprites as coding examples.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 03:37:34 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2017, 04:33:48 pm
I also uploaded the "Gunslinger" package, which will be a good start for learning the projectile code.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2017, 04:37:37 pm
Edit: I am trying to make an enemy that follows the player by hovering and shoots at them (and has ghostly, so it can walk through walls). I think I can figure out the shooting part, but I can't get it to hover but also be able to move up or down without breaking something. Generally, it can't go down and it flies through a wall and out of the level, or it falls and stays on the floor until you make it move up by being above it. Any ideas?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 15, 2017, 12:33:45 am
This is also why there are so many bugs with vertical areas right now; a lot of physics and AI doesn't incorporate vertical distances properly. I'll try to fix up at least some of those soon.
For what you are trying to do though (I'm not even sure how a ghostly sprite should treat floors in sidescrolling areas), your best option may be to code it yourself in the _update function by modifying the sprite's _x and _y values. Things like
Code: [Select]
If _x < @._x
Set _x to _x + 1
End if
And so on. This will give you more control over the object's behavior and let you make it move exactly how you want it to. Remember that you can create your own variables (built-in variables always start with an underscore) and check them in-game by clicking on the sprite.
Post by: Kamani on November 15, 2017, 12:45:04 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 15, 2017, 02:21:29 am
Code: [Select]
If _x < @._x - 64
Set _x to _x + 1
Else if _x > @._x + 64
Set _x to _x - 1
End if
If _y < @._y - 64
Set _y to _y + 1
Else if _y > @._y - 64
Set _y to _y - 1
End if
This should make the sprite follow the player and hover at around 64 pixels above them. You can then use a regular projectile technique for shooting.
Or you can wait until I improve the AI for flying. But if you're going to be making enemies with unique movement patterns getting used to coding isn't a bad plan.
Post by: Kamani on November 15, 2017, 07:59:49 am
Edit: Oh, wait, I have no clue where you put code when editing objects. I'll take a closer look later.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 15, 2017, 10:57:15 am
Dash-attacking upward will be removed later (since it's an inconsistency between sidescrolling and top-down physics) but I might add a "high jump" to allow the default sprite to climb one-tile "stairs" without increasing their maximum jump distance. That seems reasonable enough.
Oh, wait, I have no clue where you put code when editing objects. I'll take a closer look later.Functions tab. The _update function will run each frame.
Post by: Whisperling on November 15, 2017, 06:35:28 pm
Ah, speaking of which, I don't suppose it'd be possible to make an alternate keybinding for bouncing out? Using the escape key just freezes the game for me, or at least lags it to the point of unplayability. Seems likely to be an issue on my end rather than yours, but it's still pretty annoying.
Post by: Kamani on November 15, 2017, 06:36:38 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 15, 2017, 06:55:08 pm
Menu is Q. Escape is pause.
...Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks.
Post by: Kamani on November 15, 2017, 06:56:48 pm
Edit: That code works perfectly. Thanks! Now I just have to figure out why my enemy won't shoot down. They only shoot in the 180 degree arc between 0 and 180 degrees, so they can't shoot you if you are below them. I'll keep working at it in the meanwhile. I seem to recall that my tests showed that it was a problem with my bullet, not my shooter.
Edit: Actually, with the recent edits in 2D movement, it is impossible to shoot up or down, just sideways. Not entirely sure what to do here. Unless I made seeker bullets, but that would be for something else...
Edit: Well,I made a seeker fireball monster. Only issue is that I can't make bullets move through walls without being ghostly. Well, and I still can't make a regular fireball shooter, but I got sidetracked.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 15, 2017, 11:12:48 pm
Actually, with the recent edits in 2D movement, it is impossible to shoot up or down, just sideways. Not entirely sure what to do here. Unless I made seeker bullets, but that would be for something else...
Hmm...yeah, that is a reasonable effect. The idea is for the sidescroller movement to mimic the top-down movement - if a sprite can't face or aim upwards in top-down mode, it can't aim upwards in sidescroller mode either. You can give a projectile a fixed vertical angle, but the proper solution would be to make sprites capable of aiming at a target with a different z-value in both modes. I'll make that.
Post by: Kamani on November 15, 2017, 11:15:29 pm
Edit: Spring allows you to cross over the default sign in top down. A. Should this be possible? B. How can I prevent it on certain signs most effectively? C. Seems cool in top down, especially since it means players can get up one block jumps now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 16, 2017, 05:50:56 pm
The simplest option for blocking off a space right now would be to use a new, invisible tileset.
I'll need to work out a better solution. Also for jumping on top of solid objects in general, since that doesn't really work well right now.
Post by: Kamani on November 16, 2017, 05:52:53 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 16, 2017, 06:04:54 pm
You create a new tileset, maybe with the block image, then make the block tile solid and add the tile to the space with the sign. This will cause the sign to work as it did before.
I've made it so that when you die, you return to the beginning of the world instead of the room (unless the world builder is active). There will be more options for save points added in later.
Post by: Kamani on November 16, 2017, 06:05:56 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 17, 2017, 01:36:04 am
I've also been testing the possibility of letting sprites stack up on top of other sprites and/or ride them. Not in yet, but a possibility for the future.
Also, good going, all world builders! As the number of worlds increases, the universe is expanding. Wandering from world to world just feels nice! I think the best method of maximizing your spark input is to have three "undirected" gates per world - an entry, an "easy" exit with a few coins in between, and a "hard" exit. This way your world can be used as both a path to another random world (while giving you a few points for players that pass through it) as well as a challenge in its own right. I'll put in a visible spark counter soon. (The spark system is already online, you just can't see the numbers yet.)
"Hall of doors" type areas are especially beneficial for creating a more integrated universe. There will probably be some way of benefiting world builders who link to rarely linked worlds.
Post by: Kamani on November 17, 2017, 10:08:00 am
Post by: Whisperling on November 17, 2017, 10:43:34 am
Post by: Kamani on November 17, 2017, 01:45:41 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 17, 2017, 08:52:23 pm
-Without deleting the object entry itself, is there any way to get rid of an individual object after you've placed it?
-How do you make your worlds show up in the list sans underscores? I've worked out that the list displays the name of your public gate rather than the world itself, but haven't been able to get it to accept spaces.
-Have any of you experienced lag in a world you've made? Might just be that I'm playing on a chromebook, but I've seen some very occasionally in the demo dungeon and more consistently in the platformer thing I'm slowly assembling. Size is probably the culprit here (and I'm still tinkering around with the platformer dimensions), but it seems worth a check-in.
Post by: Kamani on November 17, 2017, 09:10:11 pm
- No clue. Will it make a difference (actual question, unsure)?
- I don’t recall any lag, but I have a pretty nice laptop.
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 12:07:01 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 11:05:56 am
Alternatively, you could make a more elaborate hub area. Think the castle in Mario 64... The tag system can even let you create "open" links that will connect to an appropriate area once someone builds one (until then it will just connect to a random public gate). I plan on making a system that will inform world builders of "in demand" worlds; that is, gates with no appropriate end points.
The title of a gate replaces its ID in the gate selector and allows you to use code-illegal characters such as spaces. It is advisable to change the title and not the ID for objects in general; the title is what the player sees and the ID is what the code sees; changing it will break existing gates that target it (unless that's what you want to happen).
I'll check out the new package. Let's see how it will spread...
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 11:07:28 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 12:11:22 pm
I guess a fork and merge system would be a nice addition to packages (so non-owners could make suggested edits) but don't expect it for a while at least.
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 12:24:55 pm
Possibly more importantly, what happens if you try to make a package with the same ID as another package? It just occurred to me that that might be an issue.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 01:16:07 pm
I could put a copy of the main character in a package, though I'm still updating it periodically. You don't need to use another class to transform back though; there's an option under transformations to return to original form. (If both transformations and reverting are active on the same object, it can toggle a transformation on and off.)
An enemy copy of the player could be made public, though I was planning on that being one of the final bosses :)
Saving a package with the same ID isn't as big of an issue as you might think; the filename you see is not actually the name of the file at all, it's just a property of the virtual filesystem that points you to where the file is actually held on the server, which is why you can move them around without breaking anything. If you save over one of your own files it will be overwritten, this is how updating works. Importing packages with the same name might have weird effects though, I'll have to go over that.
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 01:21:12 pm
The reason I want a main character to edit is so I can transform players into modified main character, not to reverse transformations.
Final boss? Interesting...
Okay. Glad that won’t be a big issue.
Post by: Whisperling on November 18, 2017, 01:30:45 pm
- Right click it in select mode or in its object type.
- No clue. Will it make a difference (actual question, unsure)?
- I don’t recall any lag, but I have a pretty nice laptop.
There's not a huge difference, but I'd rather just have it display properly in the main menu. Feels a little weird to see everyone else's gates read normally and my own to have lines between each word. In any case, thanks for the answers.
The title of a gate replaces its ID in the gate selector and allows you to use code-illegal characters such as spaces. It is advisable to change the title and not the ID for objects in general; the title is what the player sees and the ID is what the code sees; changing it will break existing gates that target it (unless that's what you want to happen).
I'm... pretty sure that isn't working. I tried giving both the gates I'm trying to fix titles with spaces (and changed some words around in the titles for testing purposes), but the public gate list still seems to be referring to them by ID.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 01:42:50 pm
EDIT: Okay, it's fixed.
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 10:25:34 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 11:53:08 pm
For example, you can ask a question, make the reference "reply", and make the value "yes" equal 1, and "no" equal -1. Then you have an if statement saying "If reply = 1 (effect of yes) else (effect of no)".
Post by: Kamani on November 18, 2017, 11:55:28 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2017, 11:59:07 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 19, 2017, 12:14:43 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 19, 2017, 12:24:56 am
Post by: Kamani on November 19, 2017, 12:27:21 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 19, 2017, 06:24:20 am
I have also fixed up the special variable system. You can now create custom parameters for packaged objects.
Post by: Kamani on November 19, 2017, 02:33:53 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 19, 2017, 03:18:50 pm
I improved the basic AI for flying creatures. If they have both a maximum altitude and a hover height set, they will try to hover at their maximum altitude when stalking a target, keeping them out of reach unless they need to fly in and attack. Since this makes bats really annoying, I also made the avatar's spring jump into an attack so you can hit them in the air.
Post by: Kamani on November 19, 2017, 03:20:03 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 20, 2017, 04:27:32 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 20, 2017, 06:26:30 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 20, 2017, 07:36:32 pm
EDIT: Sidenote, more editor confusion. :P I'm having some trouble getting the player to die properly when they fall off the screen with platformer physics. Been able to fudge it with a gate on the bottom of the screen, but I doubt that properly restores health/stamina levels and such.
Post by: Kamani on November 20, 2017, 07:39:18 pm
Edit: Oh, destroying the player with the destroy function leaves them unable to act, but not dead, so no respawn. Probably not good.
Edit: And the monsters are changed. I added a set of functionally invincible and untargetable enemies and made the old ones killable. Tell me if the update went well, since I haven't updated packages before.
Edit: You can copy things while in the edit functions menu, but you can't actually paste them. Could use a change in the future. This may be true with techniques as well, I can't recall, and I am busy trying to make branching dialogue (successfully so far).
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 20, 2017, 10:19:07 pm
EDIT: Sidenote, more editor confusion. :P I'm having some trouble getting the player to die properly when they fall off the screen with platformer physics. Been able to fudge it with a gate on the bottom of the screen, but I doubt that properly restores health/stamina levels and such.
If you make "blank" tiles pits, the outside of the room will function as one. There's no other way right now...well, I guess you could use a function that sets the player's _hp to 0.
Also, if you do use gates that aren't meant to be returned to, make sure to uncheck the "return to this gate" checkbox. The way you set up the room causes the entrance to "link" to the pit, making you appear in the pit if you try to go back through the door.
Post by: Kamani on November 20, 2017, 10:57:51 pm
Edit: It also didn't work when trying to transform into a copy of the block named block2. It seems to have issues with copied objects
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2017, 04:06:03 am
There will be a means of giving the player new abilities without using transformations in the future, using items. If you want to make a placeholder for this system, binding the new ability to the "special" button (v) will make it easiest to change over.
By the way, according to the lore I have planned out (which I'll get to someday) most monsters are the transformed souls of people who have gotten lost wandering in the void between the worlds. They may or may not retain varying degrees of intelligence and/or memories of their former lives. It's pretty open ended, if you want to incorporate that idea it's up to you.
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2017, 07:54:43 am
Anyways, the project is an attempt at making a character able to switch to a flying mode, but that can’t return from it except by returning to its old position of transformation. The flying character won’t be able to access all doors or leave the map or activate some switches, and if the Main Character clone left at the position of transformation dies, so do you, so you have to switch between them carefully.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2017, 08:18:39 am
EDIT: It's done.
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2017, 09:40:25 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2017, 12:03:23 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2017, 02:58:48 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2017, 04:04:32 pm
To target a specific object, you must store it as a variable, and then reference that variable. There are a couple of ways to do this.
When creating an object, you can set a Reference Variable that you can use to refer to it later. You can use a "master" object that creates other objects and stores them as variables, then can set those variables on the objects it creates. This is the standard method used by coders, and will also be ideal for handling things like projectiles.
An alternative method is to set a reference to the object on the "_room" instead, using the "_this" variable. This can be easier depending on what you are trying to do, though somewhat messier from a coding standpoint.
An example of the second method:
When transforming into BatlierPlayer (in the function for the bat sprite),
Code: [Select]
Set _room.batref = _this
Set _room.original_player = @
Transform into BatlierPlayer
This creates references to both objects, which are stored by the room itself. (You'll need to set a reference to the original sprite to switch back; @ refers to the current avatar, not the original sprite). Any sprite in the room can access these references. To set the bat as the avatar, you can runCode: [Select]
_room.batref : Set as Avatar
and in order to switch backCode: [Select]
_room.original_player : Set as Avatar
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2017, 05:24:19 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2017, 11:47:20 pm
You're treating all variables as though they have global scope, but in fact every sprite has its own set of variables. When running a function, sprites look at their own variables. If you want to use global variables, apply them to the _room instead.
Have you tried clicking a sprite in testing mode? This will give you a list of all the variables that sprite contains. It will also let you navigate to any object the sprite can access through a variable. This may help you understand variables and scope better.
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2017, 11:50:21 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 22, 2017, 12:02:50 am
Post by: Kamani on November 22, 2017, 12:03:44 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 22, 2017, 08:24:58 am
Each credit row can have a name, a website, and a text field for any other important information relating to their role in creating the file. Credits are shown when you select a file and will also be used to generate automatic credits reels later.
This means you can legally use any media under a Creative Commons license. OpenGameArt has a ton of resources with this licensing. Make sure to check the license before grabbing them, as not all of its files fall under CC.
EDIT: Also touched up some updating issues in the function editor. I also changed some of the physics in sidescroller to top-down boundaries to make them feel more natural, mainly it stops you from climbing up walls. Shouldn't cause any major issues, but it does alter movement in some areas a bit.
Next on the agenda: Items.
Post by: Kamani on November 23, 2017, 01:28:35 am
Edit: So I tried _room variables, but they aren't working and I can't figure out why. I set them from the Batelier object, so I don't know what is wrong this time. I probably messed up something obvious again. Sorry about asking for help on this one thing like twelve times, by the way.
Edit: Side note: The no climb changes to walls make it impossible to have a sprite fly up on to a platform on a fall wall up from a topdown tile. Could be an issue?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 23, 2017, 03:22:11 am
And items are indeed intended to do exactly what you're looking for. As you might imagine this can get tricky, but basically each item will be a variable that can be saved between worlds and between sessions. Some items are simply numeric but others can store more complex information. You can share an item between worlds by including them in a package which may or may not be public, and can set various restrictions to make them viable as loot.
Items used for memory alone will be called "mementos" and can store multiple bits of information using a partitioning system that will be explained in detail later (basically by compressing the information into a string, similar to how old-school password saves used to work). Mementos can be made "clingy" to prevent the player from tossing them away, but there will also be objects (which may be called trash bins or Pools of Oblivion) where you can throw away any item that is not used by a given world.
The connection between mementos and time also figures into the plot and lore; basically objective time does not exist between the worlds, gates normally connect to points in time as well as space, and you need keepsakes to return to a time you have left. So for your treasure hunters, they can give the player a memento the first time you meet them and this can be used to save that information between sessions.
As for the climb issues...I'm still working on them, yeah. Ah, you were trying to make it possible to fly to the top of the tower? Hm... Well, I'll try to get something fixed up for that.
Post by: Kamani on November 23, 2017, 03:26:04 am
That explains the issue. Oops, thanks.
Oh, okay. I didn’t realize items would be between sessions, so that should be tremendously helpful. Thank you for the explanation.
Post by: Kamani on November 23, 2017, 05:01:30 pm
Edit: Okay, here is an odd one. After the avatar is switched, the player, if they hit space, examines every interactable in the room. If they move, they can no longer do this. I don't know why this is happening, or if it is an issue with my project or otherwise, but it is really annoying.
Edit: Also, my player character keeps moving back to one spot if you aren't controlling them. Could be really annoying.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 23, 2017, 05:56:14 pm
I added an option for dragging and dropping keyframes in the technique editor (using the timebar), so you can change the frame timing easier. You can also merge two keyframes, but there is no quick way to undo this.
Post by: Kamani on November 23, 2017, 05:59:42 pm
Edit: Okay, here is an odd one. After the avatar is switched, the player, if they hit space, examines every interactable in the room. If they move, they can no longer do this. I don't know why this is happening, or if it is an issue with my project or otherwise, but it is really annoying.
Edit: Also, my player character keeps moving back to one spot if you aren't controlling them. Could be really annoying.
Thank you.
Edit: Also, leaving a world when in edit mode and with a switched avatar seems to not trigger the save message. Potentially quite bad.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 24, 2017, 01:06:04 am
The reason the player keeps moving back to the same spot is because you adapted it from the doppelganger sprite, which was designed as an enemy and has some AI behaviors - specifically, the Wandering Radius (under AI Behaviors -> Roaming Behavior) is set to 0, which means it will always return to its origin point when idle. If you set it to -1 (a placeholder for "infinity" for most variables) it won't try to return to its origin. Alternately, you can set _origin equal to _pos when switching, which will cause it to try and remain near the switching point instead.
I couldn't find any difference in leaving the world when switched or not. Are you sure you just didn't try to exit the world without editing it since the last save?
Post by: Kamani on November 24, 2017, 01:37:16 am
Post by: Kamani on November 24, 2017, 02:10:47 am
Edit: Can you make visible false objects visible in the editor? It can be really hard to figure out where you put them sometimes.
Edit: Tilesets cannot be removed from your unused tileset list, even if they aren't public ones.
Edit: Something odd: I have my batelier and special MC avatars' teams set to 1, but enemies are still non-hostile and can't be targeted. Any ideas what could be the issue?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 24, 2017, 02:53:24 am
By the way, you can make packages more user-friendly by selecting the "hidden" option (at the bottom of the class editor) for any objects that are not meant to be placed directly on the map. (For example, the monster package includes hidden "poison" and "death" objects.)
It looks like you might be making things much more complicated than they need to be though. You can use the _create function to run an event once when the object is created (i.e. when the room starts and it's placed on the map) - you don't need to make objects that create other objects when updating and then destroy or transform themselves. I think you can do everything this package needs to do using just a BatPlayed object and a hidden Special_MC object; just make the BatPlayed set all of the relevant variables in its _create (or alternatively, _checked) function.
I'll check up on the other things you mentioned.
Invisible objects do show up if you select their class for editing. Maybe I'll add an option to show all hidden objects.
You aren't supposed to remove tilesets from the "unused tileset" list itself. Basically, this was a solution for allowing global and packaged tilesets to be used; the "unused tilesets" are all global and packaged tilesets that are not currently being used in the layer; you click on the green (+) icon to add them. (I guess the "New" button's placement is confusing. Really it should be below the second list. I'll fix it up later.)
Post by: Kamani on November 24, 2017, 02:55:50 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 24, 2017, 03:24:25 am
The reason why enemies cannot target you is because neither playable objects have Targetable Unit checked.
To target enemies, you must set an Aggro Radius to something other than 0. You must also set Horizontal Spread and Vertical Spread under Targeting Vision. The default is supposed to be -1 for both of these (which means the facing direction doesn't matter), but you have it set to 0 for some reason...
Oh, I guess you were trying to make the player not attack enemies when they aren't being controlled... Hm. The AI system wasn't really made for objects that remain idle when you're not playing as them but can fight when you are. Okay, I'll add another option.
EDIT: Okay, I made it possible for player-controlled sprites to target enemies within their Vision Distance (under AI Behaviors->Targeting Vision), but AI controlled sprites will not go into combat mode unless they are within Aggro Radius.
Post by: Kamani on November 24, 2017, 12:10:43 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 25, 2017, 02:33:42 pm
Edit: Also, I somehow flew through a roof in testing in the starting room. Unsure why.
Edit: Still can't get my avatars to target with the most recent changes. Enemies target them, since I fixed the other issue, but this one remains unsolved for me. Probably missed something obvious, but not sure what.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 25, 2017, 04:49:22 pm
Flying through the roof should only be possible if you set a Sky Hole gate. Unless it's a bug that occurs when passing between sidescrolling and top-down areas.
You might want to set a Maximum Altitude. Otherwise you will be able to fly infinitely high.
Post by: Kamani on November 25, 2017, 04:50:46 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 25, 2017, 07:02:51 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 25, 2017, 09:57:11 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 26, 2017, 12:27:56 am
Having a bit of an issue with objects duplicating themselves when I move them and refusing to delete properly. The issue should be fairly visible in the second hall of worlds room (alongside my very questionable placeholder rhyming).
I see... I'm going to have to fix that.
Oops, that fixed it. I had Vision Distance set to -1, figuring it would make it infinite. New problem. Seem to be having some problems with my normal avatar occasionally going on autopilot immediately after I play them, but not reliably.
Looks like some of their techniques still have AI active. Set "maximum frames before checking for targets" to -1 to disable AI.
Actually, since switching sprites is now a thing it probably makes sense to just have a variable that disables all AI. I'll make one.
EDIT: That's done.
Whisperling, your issue is actually that there are two classes with the same ID, both are called "sign".
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 12:33:14 am
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 10:50:49 pm
Two. Could a way to add a dialogue name over the dialogue box be added? Having two characters can make it difficult to understand who is talking. In other words, like this.
______
|NAME|
----------------------------------------------------|
|Text |
| |
| |
-----------------------------------------------------
It would also work if you put the name box elsewhere, it is just really messing me up, and I have no clue how I would go about doing that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 26, 2017, 11:42:56 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 11:45:13 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 26, 2017, 11:49:31 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 11:50:18 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 26, 2017, 11:51:18 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 11:52:30 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 26, 2017, 11:53:28 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 11:54:40 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 26, 2017, 11:57:48 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2017, 11:58:42 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 27, 2017, 12:08:10 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 09:58:18 am
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 10:14:50 am
Post by: Whisperling on November 27, 2017, 10:22:28 am
I am noticing some weird stuff with ladders and attack targeting, but it seems to be intentional. To be honest, I'm not sure I love the attack stuff (it's mostly just forcing me to use shift), but I assume you're not done tweaking.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 11:28:59 am
Almost everything is possible, and thanks to transformations you can build your world around whatever physics you want. That being said, I want the default avatar to be flexible and able to function in a wide variety of worlds, since the majority of builders probably are going to build their world around their abilities.
The main goals I am going for in building the default avatar are:
Some reward for skill, but generally unfriendly to world designs that require precision and pixel-perfect timing. The game should be accessible to casual players so I want to discourage building worlds that are impassible without perfect skill. Maximum jump distance should be as such so that a pit is either clearly jumpable or clearly not jumpable at all.
Running around should feel good. Possibly some timing tricks could be used to move a bit faster so that wandering down corridors isn't so boring (sort of like rolling in Zelda, but less stupid). At the same time, they should be more of an exploring character than a platformer. They should not be able to jump too high or too far. (Though there will likely be a common transformation with more Jumpman-friendly physics.)
Fighting abilities should be flexible enough that encountering different enemies will lead to different playstyles depending on the enemy's stats. Some may require you to dodge around and hit them at the right moment, others are basically walls that you need to gauge your stamina to maximize damage without taking hits.
Concerning pit distance, my original plan was to just make one-tile pits the maximum, but I think this makes world designs too inflexible. The current mobility is good, I think - two tiles horizontally, one tile vertically, or one tile up and horizontally (for "ascending stepping stones"). That's just flexible enough to offer variety to world builders, without encouraging excessively tricky jumps. I'm not certain what this means for jumping down though; and as Kamani's first dungeon uses a lot of long downward jumps some of them might not work right.
I recently changed ladders (making it only possibly to climb when you are completely on the ladder tile) which looks and feels more realistic, but will likely break a few things.
Not yet 100% certain on ledge behaviors. Right now there's no "ledge gravity" so you can walk right over the edge of a ledge and still kind of stand there, which looks weird. I might change this too.
Like I said, feel free to offer any suggestions - the combat system is very flexible to the point where you can replicate almost any video game protagonist. (I might test this theory by making a few). I built the current combat around a dash move since this can be used both defensively and offensively, while also giving an ability for motion and crossing pits, but perhaps the execution could be improved.
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 02:31:41 pm
Additionally: can ghostly bullets be made to still hit the protagonist with melee? Assuming I didn’t miss the obvious and/or that wasn’t changed, that hasn’t worked for me.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 02:55:24 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 27, 2017, 03:00:10 pm
I think I've gotten a better handle on the combat changes (the standard dash-attack just makes you stay still if you're close enough to the targeted enemy now, and dashing without targeting only deals chip damage?), but the old ones still seem preferable to me.
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 03:06:50 pm
Okay, ghostly bullets seem to work sometimes, but not 100% of the time. You may want to try it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 03:08:04 pm
I think I've gotten a better handle on the combat changes (the standard dash-attack just makes you stay still if you're close enough to the targeted enemy now, and dashing without targeting only deals chip damage?), but the old ones still seem preferable to me.
I didn't want to make it too easy to ninja-slash back and forth through an enemy. I've changed it so that colliding with an enemy during a non-targeted dash stops you but also deals the same damage as a targeted one.
What old ones are you referring to?
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 03:11:55 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 03:20:03 pm
Other thing: I was looking at the potion effect, and it says If target != 0. What does target ! mean? I want to make some similar effects, so I was examining it.
The poison you mean?
Unset values equal 0. "!=" means not equal. So If target != 0 means if there is a target.
The poison effect has three parts to it. First, the Bite technique's hitbox runs the Venom function. This function creates a poison object, and then sets the poison's "target" variable to the object hit by the hitbox. The poison itself runs a function on the target object when it updates. The "If target != 0" is mainly there to catch possible errors.
There may be built-in status effects later, but for the time being this system can create many possible effects.
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 03:27:14 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 04:14:35 pm
Okay, that explains it. Thanks. Now I just have to figure out why my "bullets" (I disabled the bullet box (and ghostly)) aren't colliding and causing the poison _collision effect I made.
Okay, there are a few things going on here:
First, the potions don't have a vertical height, so they aren't going to collide with anything. Maybe that shouldn't be an issue, but it is.
Second, hitboxes aren't made for functions, only techniques. How did you get one there...? Oh, I guess you copied and pasted.
Fortunately, you don't need a hitbox if you're using the _collision function. This function already sets _other to the sprite being collided with, so if you run the venom function inside the _collision function it should work.
However, the _collision function will fire whenever the sprite collides with another object - including its creator. "_touched" will fire only when colliding with the player. Or, you can set a check to make sure that the object being collided with is not the creator; for example, {If _other != _this._creator}, or {If _other = @}.
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 04:24:53 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 27, 2017, 08:04:18 pm
I think I've gotten a better handle on the combat changes (the standard dash-attack just makes you stay still if you're close enough to the targeted enemy now, and dashing without targeting only deals chip damage?), but the old ones still seem preferable to me.
I didn't want to make it too easy to ninja-slash back and forth through an enemy. I've changed it so that colliding with an enemy during a non-targeted dash stops you but also deals the same damage as a targeted one.
What old ones are you referring to?
Combat mechanics, sorry. That definitely could've been clearer.
Not sure I fully understand what changes happened when, but the net result seems to be fine now. The thing I was experiencing before (untargeted attacks allowing ninja-dashing to happen, but causing little damage) was a little weird, but testing it now results in what you're describing, and that handles perfectly well.
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 09:46:22 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 27, 2017, 11:48:14 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 27, 2017, 11:49:04 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 09:15:46 am
Edit: Poison potion works, time to make the others and then the random tossing bit.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 09:27:58 am
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 09:45:22 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 09:51:33 am
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 09:53:02 am
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 10:25:53 am
Also, sorry about asking so many questions. I want to be able to do stuff in this, but I keep running into problems due to lack of knowledge.
Also, can an untransform player bit be added to functions at some point (or could you explain to me how to do this without that and without creating a new object)? I made it work by creating an invisible object that is spawns when my other invisible object's timer hits 60 and untransforms the player on touch, but this isn't really an optimal way to do this. It isn't a huge issue, just a minor thing that would be nice.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 10:43:58 am
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 01:42:56 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 03:36:06 pm
I also made it possible to transform the sprite directly by changing their _class value; however the name of the class will not work for this, you need to store an actual class in a variable. Set _class to _original_class should revert them to the original form.
That being said, you don't need to resort to transformations to get the stun to work - in fact, I'd advise against using transformations when possible. Setting _speed to 0 will stop a sprite from moving.
To make status effects that modify a sprite's stats easier to work with, I added a bunch of read-only variables to the sprite class object. This way, after changing a sprite's stats, you can easily change them back by setting them to the value in their class. (For example, after setting a sprite's {_speed to 0}, you can return them to normal by setting {_speed to _class._speed}.
There will be proper stun and knockdown behaviors later on; the "poise" system will handle this but it's not quite done yet.
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 03:51:19 pm
When you refer to _class, A. is class the same thing as object type? I'm a little confused. B. How would you store a class in a variable?
Edit: Okay. Randomized fire is done. One issue: My potions (which are set to be bullets) keep colliding with each other. This is only an issue with two or more potionslingers, but they will break each other. This is especially problematic with poison potions, because if they break, they create a poison graphical effect that floats in air, and, even though it is set to graphical effect, still breaks all of the potions that fly into it. Not sure how to solve this, possibly there is some code to check for if something is a bullet so I could say If _bullet = 0 before the other stuff, but I am not sure of that. Any suggestions?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 05:41:52 pm
_class is the object type, yes. It stores all of the default data that is set when you create a new object. You can store an actual class in a variable by setting the variable to the object's _class or _original_class. I guess this could be used to make, say, a ditto type creature... {Set _class = _other._class}.
For preventing potions from hitting each other, you have a few options. My advice would be:
Code: [Select]
If _team != _other._team & _other._unit = 1This will only allow a collision with a targetable unit that is on a different team. Projectiles with a default team of -1 will be automatically set to the team of the sprite that fires them.Oddly, bullets aren't supposed to collide with other bullets in the first place...I'm going to have to double-check that.
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 05:43:40 pm
Edit: Wait, how can I make _speed and _mp and _mp_regen target the player? I feel like I should know this, but I am unsure.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 28, 2017, 11:39:27 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 28, 2017, 11:40:32 pm
Edit: Potionslinger is now in the KamaniMonsters package! In addition, the stun potion now works on enemies as long as they don't have 0 mp skills (not much I can do to make it work better). My only advice with this one is A. potionslinger is designed for topdown, and B. you can copy the potionslinger skill on to anything else. It is what makes this work. You can also play with the odds, which are currently 1/2 to be either poison or damage, and 1/2 to be either heal, fail, or stun. You could probably even give yourself this skill.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 29, 2017, 11:07:47 am
I've fixed the issue with the bullets, which was interestingly connected to another bug that I hadn't recognized and was causing major slowdown in general. Large rooms should run noticeably faster now.
I've also made a room called "Hall of Lore" which has some stuff related to the meta-plot. Might be spoilery I guess, but good if you like to make tie-ins.
EDIT: I think I've found the source of the object duplication bug. It seems that it is not moving the objects that duplicates them, but saving the room...which can duplicate every bugged item, causing severe slowdown after multiple edits. Moving the objects just reveals the duplicates. I'm going to fix it up now.
EDIT: The duplication bug occurred when saving a room that had a local class (belonging to a layer), where members of that local class had individual values. For example, the signs in one of Whisperling's rooms. A "virtual" copy of the objects would be added when the room was loaded, and then would be saved as if they were actually there, causing objects to multiply every time the room was saved and loaded. The bug is fixed now, but you may want to double-check any room with objects such as these to make sure you don't have duplicates.
Post by: Kamani on November 29, 2017, 03:11:03 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 29, 2017, 08:35:10 pm
Also, got the time, love the lore. Wonder what the Ritual of Ascension has to do with the rest of it. Anyways, I got some new ideas for my Batelier project, and some slight changes to Elen and Alend. The only annoying thing there is that I'd like people to run into them every now and then (not every other world, or even every 20 worlds, but more like every 100 worlds or so), so I'll have to make sure I keep producing worlds with them. They are my favored treasure hunter characters, so they will appear in more of my worlds (as will Batelier, although not as much. I will say that they are planned for something related to a lore on the lower left. And that they may be lying to you slightly).
Oh, right, but the lore in the lower middle about why monsters hate humans is sticking slightly out of the text box.
Edit: Okay, something more serious this time: When falling, I keep falling through (and occasionally fatally into) blocks. Try the last mandatory jump downwards before the room with the third trial (if you are in worldeditor mode, use my invisible gate 3. It is there for testing). I keep falling really oddly there.
Edit: Um... Sometimes, the room I am working on glitches out and everything turns 45 degrees.
Edit: Again, I somehow spring jumped through a ceiling. I spring jumped from a tile floor on to a 2D fall wall 3 z? levels high and went through the ceiling.
Edit: What species is the protagonist?
Post by: Whisperling on November 29, 2017, 09:50:57 pm
Should probably get to designing the new hall of worlds stuff, especially now that I might be able to incorporate some lore. Would also be nice to learn the programming component properly. Been a bit preoccupied with other stuff lately, though.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 30, 2017, 12:50:13 am
I will also suggest CharasProject.net, which has a very flexible humanoid sprite creator tool that is free to use. Most of my human sprites come from there.
I'll work on fixing the bugs with sidescrolling, but it is important to realize that a lot of it is caused by confusing logic.
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
I'll work on making the system more intuitive and rational, but my advice would be for the most part to avoid blending floor areas and sidescrolling areas. Walls you jump down and isolated platforming areas are fine, but rooms like the second trial area are a particular nightmare to interpret physically and will likely break as the system is refined. Separating platforming areas from top-down ones with ladders or drops is probably ideal...now that I think about it, there is not currently any way of making a side switch that doesn't allow jumping through walls in some spot.
Everything turning 45 degrees? Odd. There was an experimental code for rotating camera angles but I thought I removed it...
Quote from: Kamani
Wonder what the Ritual of Ascension has to do with the rest of it.
Quote from: Kamani
What species is the protagonist?
It's a secret to everybody.
Post by: Kamani on November 30, 2017, 12:55:25 am
Thanks for the advice on where to look for resources, that should help a lot.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 30, 2017, 01:14:13 am
Secondly, before I get started on making a world, do you have like... idk, maybe a checklist or something for creating tile sets? Obvo--you can always create more tiles as needed, but it might be nice for people getting started to have a quick kind of beginner's: "okay, as a rule of thumb you should x, y, and z types of tiles. Stone, grass, brick, windows, etc. and make sure you make x1, y1, z1 types of borders so you can just get started up front.
IDK, just something general that could let people know what kind of tiles they need IN GENERAL. Whether you have grass or stone or etc. is probably subjective, but something like "hey make sure you have a primary tile texture with x, y, and z borders. At least two secondary textures. Et al."
It might be a good idea so that people can front load some of the graphical work and just dive in on the level design--I know for myself it would get tedious to have to stop and make new tiles every so often because you forgot one type of terrain or another. Or it could be OCD triggering for people to build the level first then make the tileset.
tl;dr: Not sure what tiles I need and am afraid of having to create new tiles every time a new idea pops into my head, or inversely creating like 1000 tiles I'll never use. Please halp.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 30, 2017, 02:13:28 am
The 45 degrees thing isn’t visual. I meant that the tileset rotates 45 degrees (but not objects), and saves that way if saved. It is pretty rare, and nothing reliable triggers it (that I know of). So straight vertical lines become diagonals moving right and up. Very odd.
Hmm, that sounds like it could be related to changing the width of the room. Tilemaps are saved and loaded as one-dimensional strings of tiles, starting from the upper left corner, so if the width of the room was changed it could mess them up. But when you change the size of the room the tilesets are automatically adjusted to compensate, so that shouldn't cause an issue. Unless...ah, maybe the tileset doesn't re-save because it doesn't register that it's been edited unless you change a tile as well. I'll fix that.
Secondly, before I get started on making a world, do you have like... idk, maybe a checklist or something for creating tile sets? Obvo--you can always create more tiles as needed, but it might be nice for people getting started to have a quick kind of beginner's: "okay, as a rule of thumb you should x, y, and z types of tiles. Stone, grass, brick, windows, etc. and make sure you make x1, y1, z1 types of borders so you can just get started up front.
This depends om how complicated you want your room to be. The "basic" tileset included in the Basic Objects package uses 8 tiles - floor, block, wall, ladder, sand, ice, water, and grass - plus the blank tile, which is used for pits. But it's very basic and doesn't use borders or anything like that. These are the nine basic tile types that have effects on gameplay, but obviously not all rooms will use all of them. The more visually inclined may opt for a better looking tileset; you don't need all tile types.
EDIT: Fixed the slowdown bug related to the new collision physics.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 30, 2017, 05:21:33 pm
Any sprite can have an inventory, but only the player actually uses items (for now). The number of items of a particular class a sprite has is stored as a variable, which is the name of the item preceded by a dollar sign. So say you have an item called health_potion, you would add one to the player's inventory with {Set @.$health_potion to @.$health_potion + 1}.
Items may have functions and techniques just like sprites. By default, the item has a _use function. When the player uses an item, the player sprite will run the _use function and will be the target of that function. You can make the use effect last over longer periods using a loop, but make sure to put a "Wait 1 frame" event inside the loop to prevent the game from stalling.
Items may also have techniques which will become usable if you equip the item. Using techniques does not consume the item unless you make an event that reduces the item's variable.
Although it is not yet possible to carry items from world to world, the way this will work is that items can only be used in a world where the world builder imported those items. You (the item's creator) can also put restrictions on the items you create to control their "economy". By default, only the owner of an item can create objects that modify their associated variables, and you can also make objects "restricted" to prevent other players from creating more, except through the means of another sprite you created. For example, I made a Venom Fang that randomly drops from spiders. Its associated "pickup" sprite is restricted, so world builders cannot add them directly - they can place spiders freely, but the player will still have to kill those spiders to get fangs. Items can also have "prices", which will allow them to use the same server-side limitations as sparks and serve as a harder limit on the amount being distributed - the value of all items collected will be added to the sparks a player collects when calculating how much the world builder gets back.
I also added a real-time clock for no particular reason. You can access it through the _game._clock variable and use it to get stuff like the day of the week and the time of day. Use the object examiner in testing mode to see its variables.
Post by: Kamani on November 30, 2017, 05:24:42 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 30, 2017, 05:34:45 pm
Ooh, item techniques will make the Batelier project way easier. Also, ugh, what a waste of time on those skills with transforming.
You should be able to copy and paste the relevant skill into an item, so it's not a total loss.
Worth mentioning: Inventories are associated with a sprite. If you change bodies, you'll leave your items back in the old body.
Post by: Kamani on November 30, 2017, 07:31:08 pm
Edit: Wait, the lore says that the form of the body reflects the soul, but also that not all monsters are evil, and that people who wander too much become monsters. So A. why do bats/spiders reflect bitter and detachedness? B. Is it traveling through worlds that makes people detached and bitter, and does it occur to all people, or just some people? C. If monsters do reflect evil (for reasons I still don't understand) why are some people not evil? And lastly, for now (because I have to overthink things), D.If people don't become monsters, do they become detached and bitter? How closely is all of this linked?
Edit: The distance you can move upwards when at the top of a latter might be better if it was slightly higher. Entering a floor on a one ladder up tile can be kind of tricky.
Oh, right, and I fixed my dungeon.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 01, 2017, 01:08:40 am
Of course the canon's pretty loose and open for interpretation, but the general gist I was going for is this:
Anyone who passes through the Void takes on their "true form", which for you (the player) means you can't take a transformation from one world to another, but in a more elaborate sense is the form that reflects the way the person thinks of themselves.
As people travel between worlds and return to earlier times, they become more aware that their actions don't have meaning or permanence. This causes them to grow more and more detached from their humanity or social responsibility (like Flowey or Rick). Eventually they stop thinking of themselves as human so the "true form" they take when passing through the Void reflects what they now think of themselves. Not all become monsters; the details depend on the individual.
Part of the implication is that holding on to keepsakes can protect one from detachment and transformation, since it gives world-travelers something to attach to outside of themselves.
Why bats or spiders? Well, spiders are solitary, venomous creatures that crawl on "webs", which is a good symbolic representation of someone who travels from world to world alone and hates company...and maybe is aware that the "web" is made by people? Bats are social cave-dwellers and can represent those who formed a "community" among other transformed people but are still detached from their humanity. And both are creatures people are known to be afraid of and reflect the way they think of "evil".
(Actually, the truth is they just happen to be two kinds of monsters people expect to see in a game and I haven't gotten around to making more. It's not that important. I guess there needs to be a more basic, generic enemy type too.)
Some can become friendly later because they have character development that make them become aware that even if their actions don't have "real" consequence, sometimes it's important to be good to others because it's good for your well-being (which will be a major theme of my stories at least; I enjoy "counter-nihilistic" philosophies). But they've been transformed for so long that they still think of themselves as giant spiders. :P
Or maybe some weren't human to begin with... monsters can have children, so what are they?
It's all pretty loose canon, feel free to play with it, add to it, or contradict it as you like.
I guess I will make better ways of locating a world you have been to before. Using items as transporters could work, though the details need to be worked out.
Post by: Kamani on December 01, 2017, 01:22:45 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 01, 2017, 02:24:51 am
By the way, it might be a good idea to tag your public gates. It doesn't matter much now because there aren't enough worlds to find appropriate end-points for all gates, so unspecified gates are basically random, but later on the system will try to automatically link appropriate gates together.
Post by: Kamani on December 01, 2017, 02:26:05 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 01, 2017, 04:21:48 am
This will suffice for simple dialogue. For more complex functions that involve dialogue among multiple characters, you'll need to assign a target for each Display event to specify which sprite is "talking". You can do this using the standard method of setting _room variables in the sprite's _create event.
You can also change the title text that appears - for example, if you learn the name of a character - by setting the target sprite's _title variable. When setting a text variable such as this, you will need to enclose the string in "quotes".
I also made the reply boxes use the player sprite's text box style, for better consistency.
By the way, in case you are wondering how to make semi-transparent text boxes, you can do this by using rgba values - for example, rgba(0,0,0,0.5) for semi-transparent black - in the color selector. Dialogue box color selectors actually set the HTML "color" and "background" property of the dialogue boxes directly, so you can play around with this if you know HTML. :)
Post by: Kamani on December 01, 2017, 12:36:03 pm
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on December 01, 2017, 04:46:04 pm
1) When i create a package from an open package editor and try to add a tille map to the nested package, the tillemap seems to just disapear.
2) Is it possible to add a pure image file to a package? aka I want to share my item images in the same package with the tilesets they were made for, but am to lazy to make objects for each of them.
Also, shouldn't there be descriptions in the import package dialoge?
Whisperling, made you some proper teleportation platforms. They are curently in the 'Temple Images' package.
Funfact: For the longest time i thought that the tiles would be displayed twice as big as they are and designed them accordingly, now i know better, but still add pointlesly small details. Also coming to the conclusion that 6 colors might not be enough for my whole color scheme but it is an interesting exersize.
Post by: Kamani on December 01, 2017, 07:25:50 pm
2. Can a second tag section be added that includes tags to avoid? My current dungeon doesn't exit to the same place it enters (because at the end, you can only leave from a different door than the entrance), so I don't want people to end up stuck with that if that isn't something desirable in a world.
Edit: More jump issues. If you hold jump, then you will sometimes over death pit tiles (I managed it quite a bit in Treasure Dungeon, letting me just hold jump over the pit for like 16 seconds before I died).
Also, did combat stats change? Suddenly my pretty easy boss in impossible.
Edit: Oh, right, on the player species thing, what would a random individual be likely to think they are?
Edit: Oh, and another thing: can a zoom out thing be added to the editor? It can be kind of tough to get a grip on larger rooms.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 01, 2017, 10:51:20 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 01, 2017, 11:33:47 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 02, 2017, 12:02:27 am
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 12:03:36 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 02, 2017, 01:57:05 am
Eh, I guess, but the old player model was twice as tall, so...
Haha, well maybe then? Idk, I wasn't around for that!
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 02:02:03 am
Edit: So to use something under a creative commons license, I need to link the license, give credit to the creator, and link the content? I haven't done much of this kind of stuff except for citations for projects and stuff, and I would prefer not to mess up. Admittedly, I still have yet to find a 32x32 tileset I really like (a lot of it is 16x16, and there seems to be basically no 32x32 towns on OpenGameArt.org), but if I DO manage to find something, I would prefer to know how to use it immediately.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 02, 2017, 02:26:04 am
Also, got started on making a tileset.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, loading a tileset is really easy. You just add a new global tileset, link to where the actual picture of the tileset is located and then just tag each tile.
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 02:29:07 am
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on December 02, 2017, 04:06:07 am
Any recomendations for an image hoster?
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 10:57:29 am
Also, there is an upload file button if you are in the my resources file, if it is for BoundWorlds
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2017, 11:46:08 am
The most notable change is that it will not be possible to move from a "floor" tile to a "drop" tile from the side, except where the drop tile in question has a block tile directly under it, marking it as the "floor". The purpose of this is to more clearly mark where in abstract 3D space a given tile is meant to be, as well as making all movement between boundaries "reversible", making it possible to fix up a lot of the bugs associated with top-down/platforming boundaries.
Dropping down from above or climbing up into a sidescrolling area from a ladder will still work.
Now to answer some questions...
I mean without knowing any lore prior, you'd probably assume the player avatar is a human.As far as the lore is concerned, the player avatar is intended to be
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean without having seen any other humanoid sprites, one would assume that it is simply stylized as a cartoonish human. Not saying you're wrong, but there's really nothing dwarvish or gnomish about the avatar right now.In worlds where everyone is 32x32, they might call themselves humans. In worlds that use 32x48 sprites (such as Charasproject.net sprites doubled in size), they might call the shorter player a halfling or a gnome. Or they might just call them a short human. Whatever works better for your world.
Is it possible to add a pure image file to a package? aka I want to share my item images in the same package with the tilesets they were made for, but am to lazy to make objects for each of them.Every file you upload to your file system will automatically be added to the public resource list unless you uncheck the "public" checkbox in credits menu. (I want to encourage file sharing to maximize available files but you can make it private if you are so inclined.) It will be removed from the system only if nobody is using it.
So to use something under a creative commons license, I need to link the license, give credit to the creator, and link the content? I haven't done much of this kind of stuff except for citations for projects and stuff, and I would prefer not to mess up.The current upload system was designed with the CC license in mind. Upload the file, then click on it and you'll see a space in the lower right where you can add credit rows: the name and website (when applicable) and an extra space for any additional information the particular file might specify. I'll handle the rest later (basically there will be an auto-generated "credits reel" whenever you finish a generated quest.)
Admittedly, I still have yet to find a 32x32 tileset I really like (a lot of it is 16x16, and there seems to be basically no 32x32 towns on OpenGameArt.org)You can just double the size in Paint. It'll look fine, maybe a bit pixellated next to a proper 32x32 tileset but it's no big deal.
Eh, I guess, but the old player model was twice as tall, so...I'm sticking with the new size, mainly because being one tile tall works much better for platforming sections. However...
SPEAKING OF 32x32 VS 16x16, is the player avatar final? Because it seems more 16x16 than 32x32.Yes, it's a bit pixellated. I'll have to commission a proper artist, since the current sprite is a placeholder at any case, being a slightly modified Link. (I cannot art from scratch very well). But the size, as well as the basic features and design (dark grey cloak, no discernible gender) have been in since the very beginning and can be considered finalized.
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 11:51:32 am
Also, glad that my guess about the ritual of ascension was correct (I only guessed because you clumped my question about it with my question about player species, but I am still happy.)
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2017, 12:05:44 pm
It can be kept mostly intact; just replace the one-tile wide floors with solid blocks and it should work pretty much the same.
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 12:07:15 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 12:19:12 pm
Post by: Daren Kazzarch on December 02, 2017, 12:58:27 pm
Every file you upload to your file system will automatically be added to the public resource list unless you uncheck the "public" checkbox in credits menu. (I want to encourage file sharing to maximize available files but you can make it private if you are so inclined.) It will be removed from the system only if nobody is using it.
I knew about that. Figured that's how Whisperling originaly got my images. I wanted to bundle the image in a package for organization purposes. The seerch for image files is going to become increasingly messy unless we all stick to a consistent naming convention. Maybe tags for images?
Kamani: Not for Boundworlds, for the forum. I have several partialy made tillesets sitting around, which i think someone might like, but don't want to upload them to the game because, as said, they aren't quite finnished. I want to show them of here in the forum and if someone is interested in using them, make them publishable.
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 01:00:02 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2017, 01:13:34 pm
I generally use Imgur.
I knew about that. Figured that's how Whisperling originaly got my images. I wanted to bundle the image in a package for organization purposes. The seerch for image files is going to become increasingly messy unless we all stick to a consistent naming convention. Maybe tags for images?
You're right about this. The search function does look in the description field so that might help organize to some extent. Tags aren't a bad idea though.
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 01:24:29 pm
Edit: After like 10 minutes of typing credits, I got a tileset that MIGHT work. And it is in public, so it might be of use.
Edit: Could a way to add a tile type to a lot of different tiles be added? I am adding solid over and over and over.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2017, 02:12:52 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 02:14:08 pm
Edit: Decided not to use the tileset for now. There is no grass tiles. I am just going to use the normal tile set if nobody can suggest anything.
Edit: Hey, a game that has an excuse for every house in the entire world pointing south. Just noticed. Neat!
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 02, 2017, 03:34:18 pm
EDIT: Tileset is expanding. Gonna be very basic for a while, need stairs and doors next I think. Also fades for the walls and a generic black space for people to pass under.
And then after that I think I can finally start working on some variety, making it more detailed and polished.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2017, 07:17:49 pm
Edit: So what would people who do a lot of travelling (this IS for a community of monsters) think the player is (I just want to get my details right)?
Edit: Hey, look, a bunch more Hyptosis tiles. Thanks IndigoFenix! Didn't notice those earlier.
Edit: Since it seems that everything in the tilesets I found is in those ones, should I just toss mine? No need for duplicates.
Edit: After an age of work (these Hyptosis tiles take a lot of work to place), I have finished the exterior of the town. That took a while. Now I just have to do the dungeon and the entrance. At least I figured out how to do the entrance dialogue?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2017, 12:55:53 am
Other humans who know about other worlds might call them "Traveler." Even those who don't might use the same name since they wear a cloak that makes them look like a traveler.
I should probably come up with an "official" name for the character (or their body at least), in the same sense that other placeholder nameless characters like Chara and (originally) Link have names.
Post by: Kamani on December 03, 2017, 12:57:16 am
Edit: Also, thank you for the character information. That should make this much easier.
Edit: After 30ish minutes of work (maybe an hour?), I finished my town's tilesetting. Still doesn't look perfect, but it looks more like an actual town than if I used the default. Unfortunately, it was way harder to set up. Now that I have the town and the entrance done, I just have characters, interiors, and the dungeon left to do.
Edit: Also, I hate coming up with names...
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 03, 2017, 09:58:08 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2017, 10:46:36 am
Post by: Kamani on December 03, 2017, 10:48:21 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2017, 11:47:26 pm
Also, if you can't find any 4-directional sprites, 2-directional ones are much more common. I thought it was lazy but some surprisingly professional games use 2-directional sprites in a top-down view and nobody really notices.
Post by: Kamani on December 03, 2017, 11:54:09 pm
Edit: excepting roguelikes.
I don’t really care if monsters are humanoid, I just want some diversity. Preferably a fair number would be humanoid and an equal number would not be.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2017, 01:42:00 am
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2017, 09:31:10 am
Edit: Just noticed that boundworlds is actually on http://indigofenix.com/boundworlds/. So I removed the boundworlds/ to see what would happen. Neat!
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2017, 11:25:07 am
I'm still working on fixing up the physics. I don't want to upload it until it's done, but it's looking pretty similar to the system I described earlier. At any point in "platforming" mode that there is no solid block between the player and a floor tile below them, they can move "off" the wall. Ideally, any movement that an object can make in one direction can be performed in the opposite direction, thereby giving each tile a distinct and consistent position relative to its neighbors and preventing the bugs associated with top-down to platformer boundaries that plague the pre-update version, although may still be possible to make larger structures that don't make physical sense in absolute 3D space.
Also I'm making ladders no longer work "automatically" when you pass their tile; you will have to press up to grab them and will be able to release your hold to get off them.
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2017, 01:40:26 pm
Also, is there any lore regarding Acolytes? They may also work for my town if their lore fits.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2017, 02:02:36 pm
Lore wise, they are similar to monsters but have made it their purpose to help the player in order to give meaning to their existence - they are to some extent aware they are in a game and that you are the player. I wouldn't expect them to make a significant impact in a story - at least not a normal one.
Their sprite may change in the future.
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2017, 05:15:51 pm
There will be one in my town, I think.
When will shopkeepers exist (or are they out and I missed it/don’t know how to do it?)? I have a plan that needs them that I want to use in my new dungeon.
Edit: Ugh, I hate browsing for monsters. I am going to start building the outlines of the dungeon instead.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2017, 11:22:32 pm
In the meantime, you can make event-based shops that trade sparks for items using dialogue options. The sparks variable is {@.$} and the item variable is {@.$itemname}. However, you can only use sparks that the player collected from your world during the current session, and the value of items will be lost, which kind of ruins the purpose of having a shop.
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2017, 11:29:46 pm
Edit: I could do it with variables, thinking about it, but it wouldn’t work right.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2017, 12:12:54 am
I actually plan on having a "go to location on death" option - right now you just go to the beginning of the world, resetting everything since your last "save", but world builders should have more control over that.
Post by: Kamani on December 05, 2017, 12:20:41 am
Go to location on death (with a few rooms preserved) will be massively helpful. The dungeon is through a town, and entering gets you a brief cutscene. Also, I decided what to do with the alcolyte in town. They may be tough to find. But, assuming anyone EVER finds them, they will reference the lore about who the player character is.
Edit: Using mementos as gates would also help with a larger project I have planned, which spans multiple worlds. My current project actually links to it slightly (as does my first, to a lesser extent, and Batelier world, to an even lesser extent), for reasons that should make sense more once mementos come out.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2017, 11:06:06 am
Using items as unrestricted gates would require a separate system unconnected to the usual use of an item, and that system would need to be regulated - using it while in a world would be functionally the same as quitting to the main menu. It would be essentially the same as "favoriting" a gate - which is a system that should be implemented anyway. Maybe if you tell me what the items you have planned are, I can work out a solution.
The new physics system is nearly ready, I'm just ironing out some bugs. It will be possible to jump up short walls, or fly up them if you are able to fly.
Post by: Kamani on December 05, 2017, 03:25:35 pm
The items basically would all send you to a central world (the hub world of this concept, basically), from which gates could be taken to other relevant worlds. The items that would get you to the central hub would be obtained in any world with Elen and Alend (I should consider new names, but I am atrocious at names. Of the names used so far, two are based on names from a book (although the characters aren't), and one is a terrible pun based on a french word (Batelier from atelier). But, back to the topic), or from one of the dungeons I make (exclusively if it is relevant to the project. For example, my current dungeon project is planned to give you an item for completing it that will open a room in the hub world if complete twoish other worlds), or from a couple other things in worlds I make (Putting gates at the end of each of them wouldn't have the right aesthetics). Don't know how well this project will turn out, but if it goes well, it should be neat. I am hoping to spread the lore throughout and to have neat dungeons. It probably won't turn out well, but that isn't going to stop me from trying.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2017, 05:09:45 pm
It might still have a few bugs but overall should be more consistent than the earlier system. The main point of the new system is to be more spatially cohesive; anywhere you can cross from one tile to another, you should be able to cross back by going the same way (barring logical barriers like gravity). Anywhere that this rule doesn't hold up is a bug and will be fixed.
It's more restrictive than before. Boundworlds was not intended to use a seamless blend of top-down and sidescrolling physics; each area should be either one or the other. The new physics should encourage this - there are certain geometries where it's possible to cross from top-down to sidescrolling, in other locations drop tiles will act as barriers. You can drop in from above, climb or fly up from below, and cross from the side on tiles where there is a clearly-placed solid floor in the sidescrolling region at the point of entry.
Ladders no longer work automatically when you cross their tile, you must press the up key to grab a ladder.
The only existing rooms where the new physics pose a problem (that I know about) are Trials 2 and 3 in the Treasure Dungeon, but they can be pretty easily adapted by replacing the floor tiles with solid tiles.
The items basically would all send you to a central world (the hub world of this concept, basically), from which gates could be taken to other relevant worlds. The items that would get you to the central hub would be obtained in any world with Elen and Alend (I should consider new names, but I am atrocious at names. Of the names used so far, two are based on names from a book (although the characters aren't), and one is a terrible pun based on a french word (Batelier from atelier). But, back to the topic), or from one of the dungeons I make (exclusively if it is relevant to the project. For example, my current dungeon project is planned to give you an item for completing it that will open a room in the hub world if complete twoish other worlds), or from a couple other things in worlds I make (Putting gates at the end of each of them wouldn't have the right aesthetics). Don't know how well this project will turn out, but if it goes well, it should be neat. I am hoping to spread the lore throughout and to have neat dungeons. It probably won't turn out well, but that isn't going to stop me from trying.
All of this will be doable once item transportation is implemented - the only questionable bit is the items transporting you to the hub from other players' worlds without the world builder permitting it, but they would work in any of your own worlds. You can already do this, kind of - just make the "use" function send the player to the gate of your choice.
To "share" an item between worlds, even your own, you need to package it; this will allow the same item to be accessed by multiple worlds.
If the dungeons are "open" to public gates, players might run into them at random; they could return to the hub at the end of the dungeon (if they have the transport item) and use the items they collect from each dungeon to unlock new areas in the hub.
One possibility is to make a teleport pad that does nothing unless you have the teleport item, but sends you to the hub if you have it. The hub could be a private area, but there would be a pad at the end of each dungeon, and maybe one public area with an easily-accessible pad.
Post by: Kamani on December 05, 2017, 05:29:52 pm
Okay. Teleporting with items just feels more right for the quest than hoping people favorite the hub world gate. Edit: Plus, people might not immediately go to it with the item, meaning that they have to find it again to progress. Edit: Oh, and they are lorewise linked with teleporting to places, so it feels right. Edit: Possibly they could be used AT a gate to go to a specific one if equipped?
Edit: One thing that might improve ladders: making the top block stand able on if the next block up isn't a ladder and slightly extending their height. Right now, you can't have a word enter on a ladder going up (you'll drop right down). It also means that if you have a ladder next to a solid block, you can't climb up to the block at all, which feels odd.
Edit: Oh, you can't enter a 2d area from a topdown area by using ladders (moving up). This is kind of a pain.
Edit: It is still sometimes possible to jump on death void tiles if you hold space.
Edit: I have two dialogue boxes, and are activated at the same time if you hit space in the right spot, but if you do, one always takes priority over the other, and I would prefer if the other one did that. Any advice? Oh, right, this is Treasure Dungeon (I need a new name) floor one with the sign and secret switch.
Edit: Is there a world version of _room? Like _world or something? It would really help with the token thing.
Edit: Treasure Dungeon closed until renovations (and hopefully a new name...) are complete.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2017, 11:56:01 pm
You can move from top-down to sidescrolling from below using a ladder, but you have to fall off the ladder from the side and land on a solid tile. If you try to move off onto a solid tile this will be evaluated as if you are in front of the wall. Maybe this should be changed though, since it's kind of counterintuitive.
Climbing to the top of ladders... Most sidescrolling platformers don't allow this (since you would be able to stand on top of the ladder as well, which looks weird). Though usually they allow jumping off of ladders. Hmm...
_world is a valid variable that affects the whole world. You can also associate variables with the player, which are not reset when entering a new room within the same world. Or use an item for the tokens, which lets them show up on the inventory screen.
I'll see what I can do about the dialogue box issue.
Post by: Kamani on December 06, 2017, 07:35:06 am
Edit: In the Marble Hall Teleport, I found a NPC who was a duplicate of the "This cave is surprisingly tidy." person. Odd. More importantly, I accidentally clicked somewhere, and now there is nowhere I can click to stop walking. Is there a button to stop the move to click thing? If not, that should be added. Niche glitch, but still a possible issue.
Edit: I might keep Deadly Treasure or Treasure Dungeon or whatever its lousy name is (any suggestions for new names anyone?) closed until mementos get added. Or at least until I can find a non-humanoid monster (after some indecision, I decided I would prefer to have Alend (again, name suggestions?) be non-humanoid) who's appearance works with the game (and my likes and dislikes). Question: If a memento is edited, will all copies of it in players' inventories be edited?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 06, 2017, 10:58:11 am
Question: If a memento is edited, will all copies of it in players' inventories be edited?
Yes - the player's file only stores a value and a link to the actual item's data, which will be updated whenever they pass to a new world. The place where this gets most interesting is prices - basically, it will not be possible to alter another player's "net worth" by changing the price of an item. Raising the price will cause all players to lose a number of items to compensate, and lowering the price will add the "value lost" to their spark count. It will also be possible to "force recall" an item, converting them all into their spark value. It seems weird, but basically the system would be far to easy to exploit otherwise. The total value of a player's sparks and items are still ultimately capped by the player's in-game time and the time other players spend in their worlds.
I've updated the physics some more; there are still some bugs at the boundaries between regions (mostly related to low ceilings and dashing off ledges) but the ladders should be a bit more intuitive. I'll work on fixing up the bugs.
I've also added some new abilities for the avatar. Nothing too game-changing, but you can now dive-roll and cliff-dive. I am not sure whether or not I will leave in the ability to swan-dive onto solid ground and kill yourself.
Concerning Elen and Alend, if their main role is to show up in many different worlds and do more or less the same thing in each (give you an item and tell you something), you might want to package them - that way, you can use them as a placeholder and update them all at the same time later. You can use "special variables" to give each instance minor differences. For example, you can make a special variable called "quote" that is individually editable, then call that variable in the talking function. You can display variables in text fields (for example, Display events) by putting them in {curly brackets}.
EDIT: Also, for the sign's switch - you can do this by using only the sign object itself, and have it check whether the player's _y value is higher or lower than its own to determine which side the player is on.
Post by: Kamani on December 06, 2017, 12:06:06 pm
With Elen and Alend: I am planning on packaging them, but I need to A. get a new appearance for Alend (I want a non-humanoid monster, but I am no pro at finding this stuff) and possibly Elen (The old character art wasn't quite as good as I would like). and B. Put them in another world so I can see what kind of generic text I want them to use.
Edit: Oh, right, on complex tilesets: I suggest for using them: Since tilesets aren't copieable, make a new tileset and, for the URL, use /med/000000000001.png. Set the tiles accordingly to their normal uses and set the opacity to .2 (or .33, or .4, or whatever else you prefer). Move this tileset to the highest point on the list. Now place either the complex or translucent tileset (your choice), and then the other of the two. Set the opacity on the translucent tileset to 0. This way, you can see if you made a block the right type (invisible tilesets can mess you up easily). Edit: a tileset that clearly showed what tile type each was would make it easier.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 06, 2017, 12:30:15 pm
EDIT: Somehow I accidentally undid all of the physics changes back to the way they were this morning... I'll have access to a copy tomorrow so I can merge them back together.
In the meantime, I've added respawn gates - you can set a global one for the world, and also make one for each room. These gates will let you keep transformations and items provided you are going to a location in the same world; they simply revive you and place you at the gate's location. You can handle any custom behaviors by making a separate object that creates an effect when the room starts (for example, an object that takes away all of the player's coins if you want them to lose them).
Post by: Kamani on December 06, 2017, 08:02:25 pm
Respawn gates should be VERY helpful.
I have yet to find some more monsters. Charasproject seems to use an extremely odd number of sizes, and I don't see how to sort between them.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 06, 2017, 11:39:18 pm
For Charasproject, just go to the charset editor (http://charas-project.net/charas2/index.php), and use those images directly. The image size is 24x32, but the sprite itself is approximately 16x24 with whitespace (which is good, because BoundWorlds does weird stuff with the edges if you try to enlarge a spritesheet that is perfectly lined up). You can double its size in BoundWorlds to make it fit into the game; I generally use hitbox radius 11 and hitbox vertical height 48. See the Gunslinger sprite for an example.
Post by: Kamani on December 06, 2017, 11:41:55 pm
Post by: bloop_bleep on December 07, 2017, 01:32:01 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 07, 2017, 02:59:37 am
I've also updated the front page of this thread, since it was hopelessly outdated and hard to even find the link.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 07, 2017, 08:53:47 am
I'm starting with Arx. Anyone have any requests?
Post by: Kamani on December 07, 2017, 10:01:09 am
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on December 07, 2017, 10:16:33 am
This is quite well done, and has provided me inspiration for how things should function in my own project, too.
Keep it up :)
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 07, 2017, 11:48:11 am
Post by: Kamani on December 07, 2017, 03:15:36 pm
Edit: Hey, I just realized I have Game Character Hub (I think I got it from a humble bundle a while back? The same one with RPG Maker VX Ace), so that might help. Shame it doesn't make monsters either. Not useful here.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 08, 2017, 09:28:47 am
There's a secret on the mountain of chickens. See if you can find it.
Post by: Kamani on December 08, 2017, 09:48:50 am
Edit: Wasn't the imperial citadel map's entry text used in an image that used to be on the main post? I remember seeing it.
Edit: A wandering chicken showed me the secret. Cluck cluck.
Edit: Okay, anyone have any advice on where to find sprites for a non-humanoid monster that can turn in all four directions in the same style as the Hyptosis tilesets? I can't find one, and I just checked everything under the 2D art section with the tag monster.
Also, I just noticed: Even though I deleted the duplicate Hyptosis tilesets, they didn't go away in the search area. I can make them no longer public, but I can't get rid of them.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 09, 2017, 03:02:26 pm
I found a whole bunch of monster sprites with varying styles. Going to program them at some point later, but maybe some of them could be of use to you now.
I need to make a proper pagination system for the file search though. The text search works more or less.
Post by: Kamani on December 09, 2017, 03:04:09 pm
Edit: Alend art is now the beetle. I like it well enough. The one thing on the beetle: To make a square hitbox look right on it, you have to turn OFF autocenter, set image size to 48 x 48, set image center to 24 x 26, and then set hitbox to 32 x 30. Otherwise, a bunch of the hitbox will float in the air.
Edit: Elen art is also done. I used Game Character Hub because apparently I have that. It actually turned out pretty well. It is based on the original player art, but higher quality. I decided not to make it public, since I am only using it for one character.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 09, 2017, 11:38:55 pm
By the way, it's better not to use rectangular hitboxes on sprites that are not intended to be literal rectangles.
Is that the typical arrangement for Game Character Hub spritesheets (4 frame walk cycle, south-west-east-north)? I can add it as an animation convention if it's likely to be common.
Post by: Kamani on December 09, 2017, 11:45:26 pm
Wait, what floating graphics? I was just talking about the hitbox hanging way off the art.
Edit: Also, since Alend is a beetle monster, that makes them a human who turned into a beetle. Since when was I Kafka?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 10, 2017, 12:33:33 am
There is an occasional bug where the graphic appears a bit above where it should be unless you adjust the graphics a bit or reload the area. It's pretty minor but I would like to fix it.
I wasn't even thinking of Kafka. But given the themes of the book and the mechanisms of transformation, it is fairly apropos.
Post by: Kamani on December 10, 2017, 12:36:13 am
No, the transformation Kafka thing was just something I thought of with the beetle, not a general thought about the game.
Post by: Kamani on December 10, 2017, 07:14:00 pm
Edit: leaving a map by ladder into a non-ladder tile will break the character movement.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 10, 2017, 11:39:13 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 10, 2017, 11:54:08 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 11, 2017, 05:21:13 am
Post by: Kamani on December 11, 2017, 07:33:25 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 11, 2017, 01:17:15 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 11, 2017, 01:35:28 pm
Edit: The lack of a page system is kind of a pain.
Edit: Hey, game character hub animation convention is in. Great! It might only work for the Looseleaf character options (or ones done in the same style) btw. I think the others use RPG Maker. Sorry for forgetting to say this earlier.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 12, 2017, 07:19:08 am
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 07:36:50 am
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 02:16:09 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 12, 2017, 02:41:20 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 02:41:54 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 12, 2017, 02:55:35 pm
I didn't do much testing with it, but it seems to work.
Ignore the "Passive Text" box for now. I'm making a system to give sprites passive dialogue without you actually interacting with them, but it's not working yet.
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 03:56:03 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 04:19:35 pm
Edit: Is there any way to color only some text? I want to make certain text stand out.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 12, 2017, 04:31:36 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 04:32:03 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 12, 2017, 04:43:39 pm
I'm not sure if I should leave that in, or change it to something game-specific, similar to BBCode. It could open up potential exploits otherwise.
I guess you can use them if you like. I might change it later though.
Post by: Kamani on December 12, 2017, 04:44:27 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 13, 2017, 05:22:23 am
b - bold
i - italics
u - underline
s - strikethrough
color=#f00 - color
size=12px - size
font=monospace - font family (only the most basic families active for now)
You don't actually have to put anything in closing tags - [/] just closes the last tag - but you can if it helps you organize better.
I'm also working on a [speed=] tag that will allow you to dynamically control the typing speed, and also some animation effects like shaking and rolling text. I'm going to try to replicate the same functions as Paper Mario's text system, which has some particularly clever and subtle effects that make it quite expressive.
EDIT: speed is now working.
Post by: Kamani on December 13, 2017, 07:37:58 am
Oh, but I think my bug report may have been missed, so re-noting it. Clicking somewhere while in cutscene mode ignores cutscene mode effects.
Edit: Is there any way to add tiles to the map or change what tiles are? I want to make at item that makes certain tiles climbable when used in certain spots (a rope item), and I know how to check to see if you are in a location (because of the seeker sphere), but not how to actually make tiles climbable.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 14, 2017, 12:36:54 am
EDIT: Added a function that lets you change a tile in a specified tileset. I also made it so that clicking a tile in the tilemap editor shows you its index.
It's not very efficient right now, because it recalculates the entire column's geometry every time a tile is set. It should still be sufficient for your purposes. I'll work on making it work faster later.
Remember that if you are using multiple tilesets, tile properties are added together, and setting one will not affect other tilemaps within the same layer. Climb overrides drop, but does not override block.
Post by: Kamani on December 14, 2017, 09:49:27 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 14, 2017, 03:01:55 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 14, 2017, 05:30:48 pm
Edit: Thinking ahead for my current map, a special health bar for bosses that went at the top or bottom of the screen and could include a name would be neat. Not needed or anything, but it would make my big boss neater.
Edit: Tileset's URL and Files buttons are broken. Are these in the middle of being changed or something?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 15, 2017, 12:25:10 am
I plan on making a couple of different options for health bars. They were originally intended to be a placeholder in their current state, but I never actually did anything with them.
Post by: Kamani on December 15, 2017, 12:26:07 am
Okay.
Post by: Kamani on December 15, 2017, 07:30:11 pm
If health > _hp
Use teleport
End
Set health to _hp
I tried it with a skill that's only effect was to switch control of the player to it (that would be an odd gimmick. Huh), and it didn't work than either, so I don't think it is the skill that is broken. Any ideas?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2017, 11:21:19 am
It needs a valid target or the ability will be cancelled. Generally, for "generic" abilities "target self" should be checked. Movement and defense abilities don't really work yet.
The "zeroth" frame of a technique has some weird behaviors. The main reason it exists is for "conditional" abilities that should jump immediately to a different technique without missing a frame. Jumping might not work on the zeroth frame. Setting the variable there is fine.
Don't use the "frame drag". It seems to have issues with saving.
It looks like you need at least one frame for a jump to work. A zero frame jump should be an instant teleport, but it doesn't work right.
I'm having computer problems so I can't fix it properly (got to use my phone for everything). But that dungeon is some fine work. Can't wait to see it done :D
Post by: Kamani on December 16, 2017, 12:12:58 pm
Oops, forgot to change it from the zeroth frame.
Frame drag? What is that?
Shoot. Jumps won't look quit right in 1 frame. Ugh.
Thank you.
Edit: Although I still don't know what frame drag is (please explain), it works now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2017, 12:35:00 pm
I thought a 1 frame jump would be instantaneous. It's not? I'll fix it when I can.
Unfortunately it looks like my computer may be bricked. Stupid involuntary Windows update...
Post by: Kamani on December 16, 2017, 03:18:08 pm
Seems like a 1 frame jump does work. Good
That stinks.
Suddenly, my potionslinger seems to have stopped working. I don't know why.
Edit: Now it works? Edit: Huh. It works again.
Edit: Making another poison style effect, but it seems to be not working. The timer effect on it isn't triggering, and it isn't assigning a target right. Hmm. Wonder what could be wrong now?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2017, 05:46:07 pm
You can't set variables of the target in the create function, since the target isn't assigned until after the fire object is created. You can do this in the initial collide event or the update.
Have you ever coded before? Funny how you said you didn't think you would be using the scripting when you started...
Post by: Kamani on December 16, 2017, 07:13:18 pm
Oh, okay.
I have done almost no coding before. I didn’t know how important it would be.
Thank you.
Edit: Fire does WAY less. Only .05 damage per update. It is pretty easy for damage to stack up to massive at .15, the poison amount, since the pyre skull shoots a lot of flaming attacks quickly.
Edit: Ghostly bullets don't work. This causes problems with both this and the fireball spheres, so this would be nice to be changeable. Specifically, I need my ghostly things to still use there _collide, so I am a little stuck on what to do.
Also, is there any way to ensure that an enemy takes one damage from all attacks?
Edit: How can I use damage multiplier as a variable (like I would use speed)?
Side note on that: Being able to set a damage multiplier for damage the object deals instead of just for what the object takes would be nice.
Edit: I seem to be randomly crashing, usually on death. Frustrating...
Edit: The next enemy seems to be done for now (balancing is tough). It is a mushroom with poison ranged (... is that my new theme or something? The next enemy should be not damage over time...) that hits 4x as hard if you are 150 + distance (but moves slower), but shoots 4 faster spore mushrooms in a cluster at close range. The point is that people using the sling item won't just insta win, and that approaching it takes more skill than just rush at it. Any ideas on how many monsters I should have for a longer dungeon? I want diversity, so it is less tedious. I'll probably want some form of puzzle too. Hmm...
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 17, 2017, 04:21:34 am
Part of the plan is for my own worlds to include areas that teach world design principles such as these. (Since the Ancients built a lot of the dungeons/temples, the principles they use to design them are essentially game design principles.)
I'd like BoundWorlds to be used as an environment for people who are just getting into coding in general and game design in particular. Game Maker was my first foray into "real" programming, after all.
Still trying to get my computer back up and running.
Post by: Kamani on December 17, 2017, 10:46:47 am
Makes sense.
Stinks that your computer still isn’t working.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 17, 2017, 03:28:28 pm
So let's see...I've made some improvements to the ghostly and bullet parameters, which might fix the the issue you've been having with ghostly bullets. They will still likely encounter problems on sidescrolling/top-down boundaries though. It also makes the "bullet" parameter ideal for collectible items.
For boosting all damage dealt, I expect you want that for use with the sword item? It is doable, though I'm a bit worried it could get confusing. Eh, why not.
Making an enemy that takes one damage from all attacks...I don't think I'll specifically make a parameter for that, but I'm sure you could figure out a way to replicate it through functions and a custom HP variable. I'm going to add some more options for HP and MP displays, as well as the option to display other variables as status bars.
I'd like to make a better system for status effects, likely combining it with item functions, since currently stats, techniques, and items are kind of unpredictable in how they interact instead of "stacking" with each other. A buff or debuff will basically function as an item you are "forced" to equip temporarily. I need to work out the details though.
Post by: Kamani on December 17, 2017, 03:56:41 pm
Oh good. I am not likely to use them around borders, but this should mean that seeker spheres can actually work in sidescrolling, and that my Pyre Skulls can be a bit trickier. Although, with deadly stacking fire, that may be overkill. On that: is there any way to check if a tile in a certain tileset is present at a random tile? I want to check if a tile from my functional solid tileset is there (the floor one), so I could loop until it was floor for a longer teleport.
Oh good. This should also help with buffs and debuffs, and probably other stuff too.
I’ll try that out. I can just set hp to a variable. Nobody should notice that the health bar drops for 1 frame by a tiny amount.
Makes sense.
Thank you.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 18, 2017, 06:55:19 am
You can store an object containing a tile's properties based on the layer. This lets you read whether the tile is considered solid, regardless of any individual tilemap.
Code: [Select]
ok = 0
Loop while ok = 0
Set tx = rand whatever
Set ty = rand whatever
Set tilecheck = _layer._tileprops(tx,ty)
If tilecheck._solid = 0
ok = 1
End
Wait 1 Frame
End
You can also use this to check any other tile properties, or even examine the sprites occupying that tile. Remember that it's based on the tile position (_tx,_ty), not the pixel position (_x,_y).
Or, if you need the index of a particular tilemap, you can also select the tilemap by either its index (starting with 0) or ID. If the tilemap is the first in the list, you can select it using {_layer._tilemaps.0}. Or by ID, {_layer._tilemaps.basic}.
Code: [Select]
ok = 0
Loop while ok = 0
Set tx = rand whatever
Set ty = rand whatever
Set tilecheck = _layer._tilemaps.0._tile(tx,ty)
If tilecheck != 2
ok = 1
End
Wait 1 Frame
End
You don't have to wait one frame, but I would advise it to minimize the chances of infinite loops. (You can also increase a counter with each loop and only start waiting if the counter exceeds a certain number of attempts, like 50.) I'm trying to make a foolproof (or at least fool-resistant) function that will allow you to escape to either the world builder or the main menu during an infinite loop, but it doesn't quite work right. (It doesn't crash the site completely, but it does prevent you from actually playing until you reload the page). However even when it is finished, infinite loops will at best force you to reload the world.
By the way, the Dash function may be better if you're looking for a "teleports behind the enemy" effect. This will prevent them from passing through solid walls (you can make them invisible during the dash to make it look more like a teleport, and set _unit = 0 to make them untargetable for the duration). Unless passing through solid walls is what you're going for.
Post by: Kamani on December 18, 2017, 07:32:21 am
Passing through walls is what I am going for with the new teleport. For the old one, dash might make more sense. Edit: Right, the old idea for the pyre skull was melee, and they were going to have the teleport so they wouldn't be easy with ranged. Then I ended up doing random fire projectiles. Well... It works too?
Edit: Wait, will they teleport off the map than insta die? I would prefer to prevent that, if it can occur.
Edit: I am still sometimes teleporting into blocks. Probably 30-50% of the time, so I am a little confused. Did I mess something up?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 18, 2017, 11:24:23 am
_tx and _ty are the tile coordinates, while _x and _y are pixel positions. When you check a tile, you use tile positions, but jumping uses pixel positions.
To get a pixel position from a tile position, you'll usually want to multiply by 32 and add 16. This will give you the center pixel of the tile.
Try setting tx to {@._tx - 5 + (_rand * 10)}, and ty equivalently. This will give you a random tile within 5 tiles of the player; the numbers may be adjusted accordingly. Then, when you have confirmed that the tile is valid, jump to {(tx * 32) + 16,(ty * 32) + 16}.
I might make a system for doing this kind of thing mote automatically at some point. It'll be important for doing things like ducking.
Post by: Kamani on December 18, 2017, 01:55:34 pm
I would like to give the player 5 bonus tokens (a pretty large sum of sparks) for not using the checkpoint, but I don't think that's currently possible, so I guess that has to wait? Wait, no, I should be able to make it warp you to a continue room. That should work. Side note: Could there be variables that were set when a player died in a room? This could help the on death gate system. Might be interesting for puzzles or some other events too. Not anything really important, and it might be possible already, I don't know, it would just be useful for me and likely others.
Edit: The miniboss Shadow Mage teleport seems to work usually. It warped into blocks the first two times, but then it worked the next 6ish, so... It seems to work now hopefully? Edit: After I accidentally crashed it (loops) and had to redo some stuff, it seems to work better now. Okay then? My If statement to block it from warping off the map works, although it will have to be changed for each room it is in... Because of that, Shadow Mages will not be going into the Kamani Monsters package, since it is a pain to edit things in packages. Unless there is a way to check room size, at least.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 18, 2017, 02:10:46 pm
Curious to see what you come up with for the Shadow Mage. I have plans for the same sprite, and it sounds like they might be quite different! But since the character isn't mine, I hold no reservations over it.
Post by: Kamani on December 18, 2017, 02:46:42 pm
My new teleporting enemies (with 5 range) still seem to be warping into blocks sometimes. I might make it so that if they teleport into a wall, they just teleport out. Also, is there any way to check the dimensions of a room and set it as two variables (x and y)? I could put the teleporting enemies in Kamani's Monsters package that way.
So what are your plans for the sprite? I am guessing it is probably more of a boss than the miniboss I am using it as, but I could be wrong. For all I know, it is a planned NPC.
Edit: How does the player skill block reduce damage? I would prefer if you couldn't use it to nullify my laser skill (oh gosh, I had to copy/paste this fire projectile bit 120 times), so I would like to understand it.
Oh, right, and I gave the weaker Shadow Mages a laser skill. Keeping two on screen will probably cause lag now, since they fire 120 projectiles (1 per frame), which stinks, but it is a neat skill. Each hit from the ray does 1 damage, but it stacks up to death if you take the whole hit. It also has 1 kb. It can be partially dodged pretty easily, so it isn't too unfair.
Edit (... I really edit a lot. Hope it isn't a pain): How can I do or in an if statement (like I know and is &, so what is or?)
But I think 4 enemies (and the mini-mini bosses) should be enough. Maybe two more, since none of the current ones use melee.
Still have yet to finish the videos on game design, since I can't usually watch videos.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 18, 2017, 04:02:36 pm
Wow, you really did overcomplicate that laser. Stuff like that might go better in a looping function rather than a tech - since techs can't use delayed loops, have the tech call a function instead. And the slowdown is pretty severe. Maybe cut it down to one shot every 4 frames (if each does more damage it won't be as blockable) and/or let the shots collide with walls.
Or is | (shift + backslash)
Post by: Kamani on December 18, 2017, 04:09:39 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2017, 03:30:47 am
I guess my tablet is pretty slow. Well, at least I know that if things run fast on it, they should run fast on a normal computer.
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2017, 07:39:59 am
Not really sure what to do with my laser. If I reduce the attacks to reduce lag, it won’t look right.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2017, 08:54:39 am
It might just be my computer; I tested on a faster computer and it's fine. It's up to you whether or not you want to make your world more accessible.
I changed the HP and MP bars to be optional (hidden by default except for the player) and added in RPG-style damage number popups.
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2017, 09:05:55 am
Now I can use the MP bar as the life bar for certain enemies. Yay!
Oh, right, but one other thing: Is it possible to store room size as a variable? That would let me package my teleporting monsters.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2017, 09:22:34 am
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2017, 01:46:34 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2017, 03:19:00 pm
EDIT: Ok, it's fixed.
By the way, have you been getting any points where the whole site crashes? It seems to happen rarely to me but it might just be because of my computer.
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2017, 03:38:01 pm
Edit: My site does (rarely) crash for no explicable reason. It just gives me a generic not responding website message and doesn't work. Edit: Okay, this happens very rarely when I go from testing mode to edit world. No other knowledge as to why.
Edit: How can I disable showing healthbars after it is enabled?
Edit: Severe glitch. Apparently. I can't leave the Display event menu. There is no X to click or done. Was the menu being edited?
Edit: New enemy (Melee this time!): Golem. Their gimmick: It takes 6 (or maybe 7?) hits to kill them always, and, equally importantly, each hit creates a tiny, harmless looking golem stone beetle (takes ~2 hits to kill (20 hp), has terrible damage. Sword reduces it to one hit.). Which, in ten seconds, will become a bigger bug (~3-4 hits, 40 hp, still bad damage). Which will become, in ten seconds, a small golem (5 hits always, the last two of which becomes a tiny golem beetle). Which, in ten seconds, becomes a new big golem (that will probably give no sparks, but otherwise be identical to the original). Fight smart, and they'll be harmless, but just rush them, and you'll end up surrounded by deadly golems. Not good.
Edit: Time adjusted again. No real need to say the new ones.
Edit: Bullets probably shouldn't show damage messages.
Edit: Pyreskull, Mushghast, Spid's Sorcery (under the name Sorcery Flames), and Golem were added to Kamani's Monsters package. They are designed for topdown. I also made the fireballs ghostly for the sphere enemies. If requested, I can change this back (I don't think anyone is currently using them, so I don't have to worry about stuff being messed up badly), or add extra versions with this.
Edit: Is there a way to set the rotation of an object as a variable? I am planning something difficult, but that might be really neat.
Edit: What is rotation actually measured in?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 20, 2017, 04:41:08 am
I fixed the display menu issue.
Added some more options. You can disable the damage messages for sprites such as bullets or anything else that uses unconventional damage mechanisms. You can also create custom damage-style text (in functions) displaying whatever you want to replace them. As with all text fields, you can insert variables by encasing them in {curly braces}.
I've also added custom display bars. In "special variables" you can create an indicator bar for any custom numeric variable. You can also set conditions for displaying or hiding it.
I've updated techs to allow expressions for the "next check" value under AI behaviors. This allows you to make more complex behaviors, making creatures more or less likely to use a technique depending on their status, instead of simply enabling or disabling it altogether. I also fixed the issue that prevented AI from using interrupts.
I've demonstrated all of these new features in the chickens. They now have a custom hunger bar, and they grow more likely to peck around if they are hungry.
Rotation is measured in degrees per frame. It's mainly used for sprites that have "free rotation" graphics. The plan is to use it for Asteroids-style space areas, but it's largely untested right now and might not work right.
By the way, you can fire a projectile at a specified relative angle by using "horizontal angle".
Post by: Kamani on December 20, 2017, 07:54:13 am
I couldn’t get my projectiles to fire without going at an angle relative to the spider, so I did it by making a bunch of _update projectiles.
Edit: Is there a way to make my projectiles show up higher than tiles on the layer above them? I would prefer that they aren't hidden. This is also tricky with people using spring jump in front of the two high stone stalagmites (because the top tile is second layer), but that is less annoying. Usually.
Also, I just made a projectile that fires out, stops in air, and then moves back to where it spawned. Very neat (and also a pain to figure out).
Edit: The returning flame (even though it is a new flame, to get around the only hits once thing), does no damage. I don't know why.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 20, 2017, 12:41:46 pm
Speaking of drawing functions, I'm adding in colored flash effects, both for the whole screen and individual sprites. Maybe individual layers too for flashing background effects.
The bullet thing needs to be fixed. Bullet-type objects (that deal damage on collision) are supposed to deal damage every time they "pass through" a target, but they don't seem to reset properly.
Post by: Kamani on December 20, 2017, 02:45:55 pm
Ooh. More visual effects.
Well, that explains part of it, although it was a new projectile, so I am still a bit confused. Flame one creates flame two (and destroys itself) after 200 frames. And trying collision and touched based effects didn’t work either. When it does work, the returning blue flame should make dodging the unaimed star and plus shaped bursts. Plus it melee attacks, just to make it a bit trickier. On the bright side, blue flames only do 3ish damage.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 20, 2017, 03:29:48 pm
Your enemy group is nicely done! I may borrow some of your ideas and modify them a bit. There's no real "forking" system in place, but of course you can always re-copy them yourself.
By the way, you can include published packages inside other packages. Any included packages work as "requirements" - that is, loading one package will automatically add the objects in every packages it includes. This is useful for effects that may be used by multiple creatures and will be especially important for items, since "copies" of an item will not be considered the same item otherwise.
Post by: Kamani on December 20, 2017, 03:49:39 pm
Thanks! Hope they’re helpful.
Okay. I can put potions in a seperate package (and fire, and my healing drops, and maybe blue fire, if I use more that has it. I think that I’ll put in monsters with my miniboss and boss skills, but not the actual bosses. Those are mine. Every other monster I deem sufficiently interesting gets in). But currently no items, since my enemies don’t drop them.
I am really going to have to redo my first dungeon (once my current one is done) to make it less boring. It doesn’t really do anything of interest right now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 21, 2017, 02:20:22 am
Its jump function is 1 frame long, but it runs every frame. This means that it never properly "touches down" so it doesn't process collisions.
Set it to be 0 frames and it will work.
By the way, you forgot to include projectiles and effects in the package. I wonder if I should update the package system to only be capable of interacting with objects inside the same package - this would make the system less flexible, but also more consistent...
Post by: Kamani on December 21, 2017, 10:13:47 am
Yeah, I remembered last night. I won’t be able to access a computer for another fivish hours. Sorry about that. That change would be eh, but wouldn’t affect me hugely. I don’t actually use the copies of the monsters in my package. I only use other versions so that the name can fit with my dungeon (Sorcery Flame vs. Spid’s Sorcery).
Edit: Nevermind, fixing it now. Edit: Fixed. Should work now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 21, 2017, 11:01:17 am
I've been re-importing the world of Protea from the original BoundWorlds and updating it for the current version. As there has been a lot changed (previously the game was grid-based and had no built in combat system) that's quite an update.
Post by: Kamani on December 21, 2017, 01:39:40 pm
Cool!
Edit: Fixed the "Pyre Skulls drop venom fangs" issue (oops...), but more importantly, I got the testing to worldeditor crash, but this time it mentioned not having enough memory. Could be relevant?
Edit: By hopping up in the worldedit object click menu, I moved into seeing Elemin (Better known as Chicken Rock). I noticed a room labelled Mush Room. A. Should it be possible to jump to the game level from the object click menu? B. Is this room accessible? C. In Chicken Rock, using the transformer means you have max hunger and take a bunch of damage until you peck.
Edit: So in my room 5, I have a special golem that, when it and everything it summons are down, should be activating something (a variable is set to one, than increased for each one summoned, and decreased for each one down). But it isn't, and, though I have spent a good 20 minutes trying to figure it out, I have no clue. Do you have any idea what might not be working?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 21, 2017, 03:57:40 pm
Only public rooms can be accessed from any menu. Sometimes I make rooms public just for kicks.
I can't check your world right now, but the Mush Room is for testing the idea of a multiplying enemy that has a cap for multiplication and can run an event when finished. The method I used to do this was to make an invisible spawner object that sets itself as a variable in the original spawned sprite, which in turn sets it as a variable in all the objects it spawns. The invisible object is used to store the count in the manner you are using and checks its count in the update function to determine when they are all dead. I'll release it for examination later.
Keep in mind that destroying an object through a Destroy event does not run the object's ondeath function.
Post by: Kamani on December 21, 2017, 03:59:51 pm
Makes sense.
Sounds neat!
I made that mistake, but I noticed, and I thought I had corrected it. I’ll check again.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 21, 2017, 04:08:06 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 21, 2017, 04:09:34 pm
Edit: ... Okay, this issue was actually kind of embarrassing. I had placed a golem, and THOUGHT I placed my special golem. I didn't. Oops.
Edit: My teleporting enemies seem to be teleporting into walls again. I can't figure out why, but in the click menu, the safe and tilecheck variables are both showing as blanks, so that might be relevant.
Also, I am making a new laser firer which fires half as often but does double damage. It was lagging in worlds with several other objects.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 22, 2017, 06:16:18 am
Anyway, I released the multiplying mushrooms under the package "Amanita". You can set their maximum group number and various functions that occur when they are all killed. There is a trick to beating them... I may actually use them as a miniboss.
I might be changing the player's use of MP, adding a new rapidly increasing bar for stamina and using MP for item-based spells instead. Using MP as stamina will still work in general, the only thing that will change are abilities that currently affect the player's MP directly.
Post by: Kamani on December 22, 2017, 07:38:06 am
Ooh, neat!
Also neat!
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 22, 2017, 08:19:57 am
I have a suspicion of what's causing the crashing problems. It seems that areas aren't actually being deleted when they are offloaded - they are still being stored in memory. This means that as you visit more worlds in a single session, the browser takes up increasingly more memory. This can cause various issues as the browser either compensates by not running certain processes, or simply fails altogether.
At least, I think that's what's causing the problems. I'll rewrite the loading code to see if it helps.
Post by: Kamani on December 22, 2017, 09:04:32 am
Edit: Will there be a way to make the screen flash/tint the entire screen (or is this possible and I missed it)? I want to make it happen before my miniboss (and I want to make the screen tint dark during the fight. They have a flare for dramatics), just to increase the sort of over dramatic acting of the boss.
Edit: Okay, very, very annoying glitch. Very frequently all of a sudden, when I am doing something, the changes I just made to an object will be undone when I check the menu again. It has made it impossible to get anything done. Any clue what could be wrong?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 23, 2017, 11:01:32 am
Also boss subtitles are planned, so that will be nice for more dramatic effects.
There are a whole bunch of bugs that popped up recently, possibly related to the previous issue. A lot may also be related to the fact that I changed the way graphics are processed in order to make colored sprites possible. Where specifically are your edits not being saved?
Post by: Kamani on December 23, 2017, 11:18:26 am
Cool!
My edits were specifically not saving in the functions and techniques menus. I would enter, make a change, leave, leave the object menu to change something else, come back, and my changes would be gone.
Thank you.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 23, 2017, 03:51:02 pm
Are you sure you didn't try to click and drag a frame in the tech editor's timeline? This is a known bug; the frame appears to be there but it is deleted when the room is tested or reloaded.
Post by: Kamani on December 23, 2017, 04:07:33 pm
Nope, happened to my update function too. Maybe it will be gone when I log back in. Edit: The glitch, not the function.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 23, 2017, 05:02:56 pm
I figured out what the problem with your teleport is. Since _rand gives a fractional number, the _tileprops function was trying to locate a tile at a fractional position. This doesn't exist, so it would always evaluate any property of the tile as 0.
I fixed this by making _tileprops automatically round down. However this will still cause problems on the actual jump, since it will use the fractional positions, causing the object to not be aligned perfectly with the tile (meaning they could possibly end up partially in a wall). So I added a _floor function, which rounds a number down to the nearest whole number.
So the jump destination should now be { (_floor(tx) * 32) + 16,(_floor(ty) * 32) + 16 }
I also added a _ceil function, which rounds up to the nearest whole number.
Post by: Kamani on December 23, 2017, 07:22:16 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 24, 2017, 03:55:29 am
I made venom fangs private to test. It should not be possible to give the player a bunch of venom fangs without creating and killing an appropriate number of spiders. Well, I guess they could make a spider processing machine since the spiders themselves are not restricted, but this will be handled by the spark-based item value limiting system.
EDIT: Also added in a bunch of new options and variables. _room._flashcolor and _room._flashlevel, an option to make text boxes appear in the center or bottom of the screen, and more inline text rules like [align=center] for centered text. Also line breaks now work for displayed text. Put together, you can make proper boss subtitles.
Post by: Kamani on December 24, 2017, 10:44:47 am
Yay for tints and more text options! These will be great.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 24, 2017, 11:21:44 am
Post by: Kamani on December 25, 2017, 01:00:10 am
My first miniboss has very low damage, but, every now and then, makes 5 shadow clones of it (with only 1 life), and two shadow clones of you (again, 1 life), all of which teleport around the field when spawned, as do it and you (and you and the Mage are tinted dark until there are now shadows left). Every clone has shadow fire spells, leading to a lot of unreliable fire. So all the small damage will stack up. The boss was originally going to have the ray spell, but that will likely mean lag, so it is getting cut.
Also, Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 25, 2017, 01:25:29 pm
I've also made some changes to how worlds are linked together, making tags and gate types more relevant. There aren't enough worlds to go around yet to really notice though. You will also now need to specify which gates serve as exits to your world in order to backtrack to them. Even if you don't want them to be backtrackable, you should still mark your world's exits, as they will be used later by server-side algorithms to construct the multiverse's "geometry" - classifying worlds according to how many entrances and exits they have and then lining them up to create multi-world quests.
Post by: Kamani on December 25, 2017, 01:33:47 pm
Makes sense, although I kind of like the teleported gate at the end of my dungeon to just go anywhere.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 25, 2017, 03:09:52 pm
Worlds will be classified under pseudo-categories like Hubs (many exits, players tend to return often and leave through a different exit), Roads (a small number of exits, players tend to go back and forth), and Dungeons (one exit, players tend to enter and return the way they came after spending a fair amount of time inside). It will use this information to construct more stable pathways (hub-worlds will have dungeon-worlds branching off of them, and will be connected to each other by road-worlds) and even procedurally generate quests.
Of course you can make a Gate that simply goes anywhere, but even now there is some streamlining involved. Walk gates will try to connect to other walk gates facing in the opposite direction, ground holes to sky holes, and teleports to teleports. The algorithm also tries to ensure that backtracking rules line up (if you enter a non-backtracking Gate, it tries to put you on a Gate that does not allow exiting). And tags are also used to find appropriate locations. There are too few public gates right now so it appears mostly random, but as more areas are added it will become more coherent.
I'm also going to add a popup that lets you see the details of gates that have no unique "ideal" destination - i.e. "in demand" gates, in order to give world builders ideas. For example, "Gate Request: Walk Gate entering North with tags: Swamp,Village" if someone makes an exit that requests such a destination but none exists.
Post by: Kamani on December 25, 2017, 10:45:30 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 28, 2017, 05:26:40 am
To use an item in a world, it must be imported into that world. Disabled items will appear greyed out.
Item partitions aren't active yet, so the only data an item can store is its own number. Although you can set an item as a "key item" to prevent players from throwing them away in your world, there is no way to prevent a player from discarding them in another world. So for now, each item should be regarded as a literal object. When partitions are active it will be possible to store more complex and "linked" bits of data.
Items with prices are a bit complicated. They will be evaluated as similar to sparks when determining how many a player can take from a world, and will be added to the player's spark value when determining how much to return to the world builder. Basically, treat them as if they were coins of the equivalent value.
Post by: Kamani on December 28, 2017, 08:44:43 am
Edit: You now get a memento at the end of the treasure dungeon. Still won't take you anywhere, but at least you will be able to use it in the future?
And, more serious issue. In my Shadow Mage fight, kind of randomly, my Shadow Mage will stop teleporting. When it casts the duplication spell (which force teleports it), then it starts again as normal. On the bright side, I got the multiply skill done, so I probably just need to rebalance then test it. I'm probably going to put it into an easy to access public world, so that other people can try it. But that stop teleporting issue is kind of ruining it. Any clue what could be wrong? I just can't figure it out.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 29, 2017, 04:59:31 am
Also it looks like you have safe.solid where it should be safe._solid. That's probably the problem.
Since you have a function for warping, you might want to just point the update to that function instead of having two copies of the same thing.
In general, it's a good idea to put movement functions as techniques - if a sprite tries to use two movement functions at once, it will likely go very glitchy. Techniques are programmed to automatically cancel other techniques when used, and you can force an object to use a technique inside a function. Fortunately since the only movement the Shadow Mage has is teleporting, and all of its functions take place in a single frame, that probably shouldn't be an issue.
I've made a few minor changes. Fixed an issue with hitbox conditions, added max values for items, and added in TP (tech points) in addition to MP; they're pretty much interchangeable but the basic intent is for TP to regenerate more quickly and be used for physical abilities while MP regenerates more slowly and is used for magic abilities. The main reason for this is to add custom magic abilities (through items) without interfering with the player's base movement. I'll make a few basic items and spells for coherency's sake.
Post by: Kamani on December 31, 2017, 11:43:24 am
Oops.
Doesn't really matter in this case, but I'll remember it going forward. Edit: Ended up changing it anyways.
K.
Cool!
Sorry for the slow response. I posted earlier, but it crashed and I didn't notice.
Edit: Hmm. Still not working.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 31, 2017, 03:47:07 pm
1. In the Warp function, placed the tx and ty calculations inside a _floor function. {tx = _floor(@._tx - 15 + _rand * 30)}
2. Made the jump in the Warp function 0 frames.
3. Instead of calling the warp function directly, created a self-targeting technique that calls the warp function instead, and made the update function call the technique instead of the function. The technique can be disabled if you don't want it to be used at random as well.
4. In the update function, made the health variable set to _hp only after using Warp, instead of every frame. To set health initially, I also set health to _hp if health = 0.
All of these combined seem to fix it. I'm not sure exactly where the issue is, if it's a logical error or something buggy in the program itself, but there you go.
Trying to fix up the sidescrolling/top-down physics again. Not fun. Not that programming is especially known for being particularly exciting in general, but I think I may have bit off more than I can chew with the whole blending two different physics systems together vision. I may hold off on it for a while, since as cool as it might be in theory it isn't really the main point of the game, and world builders can just avoid the issue for now.
Thinking about a stacking status effect system to handle variable changes better.
Post by: Kamani on December 31, 2017, 03:49:08 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 02, 2018, 05:16:36 am
Post by: Kamani on January 02, 2018, 09:29:43 am
I have temporarily added a public room that has a gate to go to the boss (or 6 other gates to use as a really lazily done warp hub, so people won't blunder into it and get trapped), so if anyone could tell me what they think of the boss, that would be extremely helpful (although they are designed to be very difficult without the sword (which will replace the slings for the duration of the fight. No easy wins). After I get some feedback (or after about two days), I am deleting the room and making the world closed until it is ready to actually be released. Thank you.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 02, 2018, 01:49:51 pm
So on the Shadow Mage. Quite a challenge, took me several tries to beat (though to be fair, there's no way of getting the sword or the sling in its. Definitely some nice concepts for a "trickster" type boss. Teleporting is nice, shadow clones are cool. Turning the player black as well is a nice touch (although, if the player doppelgangers are copies of the original doppelganger object that may be a problem later - the player's graphic may change structure in the future).
I like the way that all of the copies turn black until only the real one is left alive, though there isn't much incentive to do so since by the time you kill all the clones he just makes some more, and it's always easy to tell which one is real once you've hit him once. Maybe if he took extra damage when all clones were destroyed, there'd be a reason to hunt them down.
Were you planning on making a "boss HP" bar when that's implemented? Fighting a boss with no way of knowing how close you are to winning can be frustrating. Also, with the damage numbers hidden, there's no way for a new player to even know that he's taking damage.
The "everyone randomly teleports" effect is pretty frustrating. It's easy to get hit there without any means of avoiding damage.
Also a small graphical effect for teleporting would make it look cooler.
All criticisms aside, it's a pretty nicely made boss. Is he meant to be the final boss of the dungeon, or were you planning on a second half?
Post by: Kamani on January 02, 2018, 02:13:33 pm
I’ll change the shadow doppelgangers as needed.
I’ll do that. Making them take more damage (and possibly enabling a healthbar? It would be interesting if the health bar only showed while they were weak) with no clones would give that a reason (excepting the already present reason of ending up with like 14 clones (although, for lag concerns, I might make them max at 7 (possibly by making old copies self-destruct, potentially damaging the player)).
I’ll add one, once implemented, possibly in the way of the idea listed in the previous text block.
Is there a way to set present mp instead of max mp? If so, I could set present mp to 0 on create, causing a ~2 second pause (can’t recall the exact numbers). Either that, or I’ll just set skills to be delayed by an update timer.
What kind of graphical effect would work well? I haven’t used really any so far.
There will be a second half, I think. Shadow Mage is the over dramatic second to the actual guardian, Spids (Yes, I am a pretty awful at names). The final boss will be longer (so it will also do less damage), and use a greater variety of skills. Also, I need to look for a giant spider sprite (because upsizing too much will look bad.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 02, 2018, 05:19:48 pm
Not much point in only showing a health bar when weak. The point is so that the player can feel that they are progressing. Any form of progression will do though - changing color or becoming noticeably more difficult can give a sense of progress if you don't want to do health bars. Maybe increase MP regeneration as the boss takes damage, letting them throw more fireballs?
By the way, if you're trying to limit on-screen objects the "max spawns" parameter helps. Every object has a "spawn value"; projectiles and created objects with the "create as spawn" box checked add this value to their "parent". By setting the max spawn value for the tech that creates the projectiles, you can make sure that they won't use the technique if they still have a given number of surviving "children".
Post by: Kamani on January 02, 2018, 10:01:05 pm
That would work. Although I think it might also show a healthbar that switches color when it is weak (to indicate the increased damage).
That would work, but I want some kind of effect for not defeating them.
Edit: Realizing that I forgot to add the item to treasure dungeon after making it, I went back, but whatever changes I made instantly unmade themselves even after I turned BoundWorlds off and on. Also, I can't determine why it isn't working. The former issue will probably go away by a few hours (like last time), but the latter makes no sense. The Checked function checks a variable, and, if it is 0, displays one set of text (otherwise, it displays a different one), and the Create function sets the variable to 0. I would check it using the new variable in game testing thing, but with the annoying glitch, testing doesn't seem reliable. In other words, I'll check in a few hours to see if I can figure it out, but currently, it makes no sense.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2018, 10:16:39 am
I added persistent rooms, that save when you exit and return. Leaving a world (or opening the world builder) resets all persistent rooms. You can also unload them through a function.
Use them sparingly though. Storing large amounts of data may cause bugs on some computers.
I also made it possible to resize the bounding box for images by clicking and dragging its corners. Should make it a bit easier to set item images.
EDIT: Okay, it seems that the issue with not saving is related to the persistent rooms. Did you make the rooms persistent on purpose? None of them have any reason to be.
To get or set an item of the player, use {@.$itemname} (seems useless for now, but other entities will be able to use items later.)
Also, I accidentally forgot to make -1 max infinite for items. That's fixed now.
You might also want to give Elan and Alend unique textbox colors to serve as their "voices". Don't know what's up with the all-white textbox... Oh, also you can make a textbox transparent by just typing "transparent" into the color selector, if that's what you were trying to make.
I'll figure out the issue with saving persistent rooms.
Post by: Kamani on January 03, 2018, 12:16:05 pm
I thought that the persistent room button in the room menu made rooms persistent?
Good to know.
Edit: Okay, the issue is different than I thought. I loaded the Treasure Dungeon world in the world editor, edited an object, exited the object menu, saved, checked the edit menu again (the changes were still there), loaded the room with the testing button, and my changes weren't present. I checked the object menu again, and the changes were gone. The issue is still present for me, at least in the treasure dungeon map.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2018, 12:43:49 pm
I guess I'm just a bit paranoid because my computer is prone to crashing when memory use is strained. It probably won't be an issue for most people. Even so, making rooms persistent should be considered a less-than-ideal situation in most circumstances; it's better to store persistent information as items or _world variables. I'll probably make a better option for individual objects at some point (like an option that automatically stores whether or not a particular object was destroyed, so you don't have to store the whole room).
Yeah there's something weird going on with the Treasure Dungeon and I don't think it's just persistence. Still working on it.
EDIT: Turns out it was persistence after all. (Even after turning off persistence, the "stored" room still was persistent so it was loading that instead.) It's fixed now.
Post by: Kamani on January 03, 2018, 02:18:40 pm
Edit: Done.
More problematically, spring jumping in front of things like the smaller rock in chicken rock leads to some annoying visuals.
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on January 04, 2018, 12:38:16 am
I'm gonna poke at your code (which is obviously handwritten javascript, it still has your comments haha) and give you my recommendations.
If you don't want that, just say so and i'll stop poking around.
You've done amazing work writing this.
Edit: My early findings:
You should probably split this into multiple files, large code like this is hard to read for both me and you (Unless index.js is just a bundle, then it's fine because it's made by a computer :P)
Avoid Math.js's expression parsing. It executes arbitrary code on the client (as in, eval()); and a friend and I proved a while ago that it can be used to execute truly arbitrary code (Bypassing it's protections). With the new x86 bugs around, this is an even bigger issue.
It also seems like you're switching styles a lot. You use 'class', prototypes, and everything in between for making new object types.
Yup. I'm a walking style guide. But i recommend this to help you as a programmer, as well. :)
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 04, 2018, 03:21:37 am
I don't actually use eval(), I wrote my own expression system for this very reason. Also to use the in-game variable system which is internally somewhat different than Javascript.
I suppose I could split up the code somewhat. I mostly keep it together to make editing different parts of it at once easier.
I wasn't planning on making this true open source, but if you want to help out I'll take it and acknowledge it. Sidescrolling to top-down physics boundaries is particularly annoying...
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on January 04, 2018, 03:31:51 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 04, 2018, 05:23:40 am
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on January 04, 2018, 01:20:28 pm
Post by: Kamani on January 04, 2018, 02:46:38 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 04, 2018, 04:17:52 pm
Protea's coming along nicely. I'll probably open it up once the first dungeon is complete, because at that point it will be possible to save your progress. After that I'll probably work on either partitions or status effects. But BoundWorlds needs more content for now.
Post by: Kamani on January 04, 2018, 10:25:17 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 05, 2018, 01:07:32 am
Post by: Kamani on January 05, 2018, 07:31:52 am
Edit: Amusing thing you can do it edit mode: click on yourself and edit your own stats. I messed with super jumps earlier.
Edit: Could you explain how to use identify the tile(s) adjacent to a sprite with _tileprops in a bit more detail? The rest of it made sense to me, but that part leaves me a bit confused.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 05, 2018, 09:28:28 am
After getting a tile using _tileprops and saving it as a variable, you will be able to see it in the item viewer. Click on it to see its properties. You will notice a variable called _sprites. This is a list of all the sprites in that tile. (It will not update; _tileprops gives you a copy of the tile data.)
So let's say you want to flip all the objects adjacent to the tile. For each adjacent tile, first get its tileprops and store it as {tile}. Then do something like this:
Code: [Select]
Each tile._sprites
If #._name = "fliptile1" <-Check the sprite's name to determine if it is the right kind of object
#: transform into fliptile2
Else if #._name = "fliptile2"
#: transform into fliptile1
End
EndYou can reduce redundancy by putting the above into its own function and calling that function once for each relevant tile.
Anyway, I fixed up some bugs relating to storing items and also fixed the Default Death Location function. Also added an "unload room" function that allows you to reset a persistent room. Going to the world editor automatically resets all rooms. Oh, and background music now keeps playing until it is overridden by a different background music, so you only have to set it for the first room in an area.
Post by: Kamani on January 05, 2018, 02:04:28 pm
I think I am going to do two 32x32 floors, then the miniboss, then two more 32x32 floors, then the boss.
Unload room should help with the dungeon. But I probably still won’t have any music, since I play everything muted.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 06, 2018, 02:12:41 pm
I do suggest adding music anyway, at least for the benefit of other players. I can make suggestions if you can't hear them for whatever reason.
Remember, if you change the ID of a room, it breaks all gates leading to that room.
Also, for the dungeon intro, make sure to account for players backtracking. (I usually run a check on the cutscene handling object's _create function to compare its _y value to the player's, and destroys itself if the player's _y value is less than its own.)
Post by: Kamani on January 06, 2018, 08:58:25 pm
Okay. I generally play games muted, and since the music I generally listen to is modern chiptunes, synthwave, and classical, so I could use some advice for this.
Oops. Right. Thanks.
Oh, that should work better than just setting it to persist. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 09, 2018, 03:26:55 pm
Next up, more features. Next on the checklist is either status effects or item partitions. Probably going to go for item partitions first.
Post by: Kamani on January 09, 2018, 03:29:40 pm
I’d say item partitions.
My world is going to have at least two not-obvious secret areas. But I need a nice looking ? sprite...
Post by: Kamani on January 12, 2018, 10:00:49 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 13, 2018, 11:57:16 am
Also, the _checked function triggers several tiles near the player at once. To make sure only one tile is hit, you can make a check to see if the player's _tx and _ty are the same as the tile's.
There seems to be another issue that prevents it from triggering a second time. This may be a bug, so I'm trying to find it.
Post by: Kamani on January 13, 2018, 11:59:39 am
Oh, good to know.
To note one thing, inactive tiles don’t work at all. This may contribute to that issue.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 13, 2018, 12:14:02 pm
This may actually cause some minor behavior changes in other objects that weren't running properly before. I don't think it will make anything more buggy, but you might want to replay the miniboss just to make sure.
Item partitions aren't quite finished yet, but they're getting close. Actually, you should already be able to store arbitrary variables in items, they just won't save.
Post by: Kamani on January 15, 2018, 01:01:33 am
Okay. I'll make sure.
Good! Although, what exactly do item partitions mean? Or do, if more appropriate.
A multi copy button would be extremely useful for when you make a set of something for one room, and then decide to use it elsewhere. Copying over about 9 things between rooms because you realized this is more useful than you thought is a pain. And has happened to me like 5 times, because of my poor planning. I really need to stop doing that. Also, this probably has other uses I haven't thought of.
Edit: How can I check sprites for an entire room? I want to make it easy to check if there are any active tiles, so I can release it as a package.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 15, 2018, 09:54:48 am
You can use Each _layer._sprites to check all the sprites in a layer.
Item partitions are basically a more effective way of storing complex data without cluttering up the player's inventory or having to worry about the player throwing away mementos. Instead of giving the player an item for every single variable that needs to be remembered, you give them one item and then store a bunch of hidden variables inside that item. They can still throw the item away (if they are in a different world), but they can't throw part of it away, so you can use it for storing plot details or player choices.
Partitioned items will require some planning due to the way the data is stored; each variable must have its number of bits defined and you can't change a variable after it's created without messing up player's "saves", since this will cause "saved" data to be interpreted wrong. You can add new variables to an existing item though. These restrictions only apply to persistent items.
Post by: Kamani on January 15, 2018, 11:27:55 am
Okay. Thanks! I figured _room would have to be part of it, but that got me a three word chain, which seemed wrong.
Okay. That makes sense. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 15, 2018, 02:40:11 pm
I'm not quite done foolproofing them, though. Just remember that you can't change existing partitions in persistent items without messing up player saves.
A partition can only hold a positive integer value, and this value is capped by the number of bits in the partition. For example, a 1 bit partition can be 0 or 1, a 2 bit partition can be 0-3, and so on. You will be able to see the maximum value when creating the partition.
After creating a partition, you can set it by targeting a variable inside the item, for example {@.$itemname.partname = 1}.
The player must also be holding at least one of the item in their inventory for the data to be saved. Partitioned items can still be set the same way as nonpartitioned ones. {@.$itemname = 1}. Discarding the item will delete the data, so you'll probably want to check Key Item for partitioned items, although I do plan on making a few more options.
Each item can hold a total of 2040 bits of data. This should be plenty.
---
So next on the list, I suppose, is status effects. The current method of changing a unit's stats is fairly inflexible, with no good way of handling unexpected combinations of effects such as what might result from the player carrying around a large number of offensive or defensive items and spells.
This will probably work by creating status-effect sprites and "applying" them to a target, similar to how poison works now but with more options concerning exactly how it will affect its "host". Also making it update its position automatically.
Hmm, this could be linked with the planned mount system. If a unit is assigned as a "status effect" to another unit, it "rides" that unit.
---
Alternately I can try and learn how to sprite art and redraw the player sprite so it doesn't look all pixellated. Then I can maybe make a video and post it on YouTube so more people might learn BoundWorlds exists.
Post by: Kamani on January 15, 2018, 10:58:48 pm
Side note: the gates going to a point in time thing has made me think of doing a dungeon with a time travel gimmick.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 18, 2018, 09:13:53 am
Now to decide, should I make a proper "trailer" video, or a more modest "tech demo"...
Post by: Kamani on January 18, 2018, 09:50:48 am
I think a trailer would be neater, but there isn’t a very large amount of stuff yet, so...
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 18, 2018, 10:12:08 am
Well, I'll make a few clips and see what I can do with them, I guess.
Post by: Kamani on January 18, 2018, 10:19:07 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 20, 2018, 11:11:46 am
Kamani, have you read Mistborn :)? I'm reading it now, and some of the names seem familiar...
Post by: Kamani on January 20, 2018, 11:33:43 am
Yes. Told you I 90% stole the names. I REALLY wasn’t kidding about being bad at them. But, Mistborn (and Elantris, Warbreaker, the Stormlight archive, and to a lesser extent, Steelheart, all of the OTHER Sanderson books) are really good. Oh, but Batelier isn’t from Mistborn, it is just a random word, but with a bad bat pun added.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 20, 2018, 12:32:45 pm
Post by: Kamani on January 20, 2018, 12:52:58 pm
Edit: At least I didn’t name any characters Hoid (you have to have read a fair amount of Sanderson (or just Stormlight Archive), for this to make sense).
Post by: Kamani on January 22, 2018, 10:28:45 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 23, 2018, 03:51:04 am
Usually I use 0 for false, and 1 for true.
Ugh, I hate these puzzles :) You might want to make a "reset button" that sets all tiles _class to their _original_class.
That boss sounds cool. Personally I'm partial to telegraphed boss fights where it is possible to avoid every move, although BoundWorlds lets you make a more "RPG-like" system where you're expected to take damage. This will be more fair with healing items/spells, perhaps?
The status effect system is under construction. It works through a "parasite-host" system - status effects are actually sprites (kind of like how poison works now) and can have their own AI and operations in addition to their effect on their host. Effects are basically multipliers for existing variables that are reversed when the effect ends.
I'm also making some posts to other media in order to gain more interest. I made a Reddit page! (https://www.reddit.com/r/boundworlds/)
Post by: Kamani on January 23, 2018, 07:49:16 am
K.
Oh, right.
Makes sense.
Cool!
Edit: Okay, so that stopped it from instantly switching to solved, but now it isn't counting as solved at all. Any idea why it might not be working?
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 23, 2018, 12:01:05 pm
Post by: Kamani on January 23, 2018, 01:30:36 pm
Post by: Kamani on January 26, 2018, 10:25:36 am
I am now working on balancing up the second floor. It seems like battles can either be finished up pretty easily or they can become very hard. For example, some battles against the Pyreskull and Mushghast have left me with tops a sixth of my life missing, whereas others have killed me. The golems do the same, since, although the little bugs don't do much damage, the bigger ones inflict kb, and if you attack someone who is using a jump attack, you take damage. This means that with the crowd of bugs, it can be hard to attack (although the time where I ended up with 5 subgolem clones on screen was entirely my fault. And also quite fatal, but, that happens). There seems to be a trick to golem fighting, which is to attack then move back repeatedly. Not quite sure how to balance this out.
Post by: Kamani on January 26, 2018, 02:46:19 pm
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on January 26, 2018, 03:13:17 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 27, 2018, 11:37:56 am
I've noticed the same issues related to your enemy's difficulty, and I think a large part of it has to do with the cramped areas you fight them in - it doesn't leave much room for dodging and depending on how they move you can wind up taking a bunch of nearly unavoidable damage. There also aren't any real "tells" that let you anticipate an attack either, which can be a real pain at close range combat (pausing for a few frames before an attack can make a huge difference in how "fair" an enemy feels). If you're going for an "action" type area, making attacks avoidable is a must. If you're going for an "RPG" type area, enemy attacks need to be weaker.
Sorry about the update taking so long, I'm basically rebuilding the entire variable system in order to make it work smoothly with multiple simultaneous status effects. I'm also planning on adding equipment slots and elemental weaknesses/resistances. It'll open up a ton of new possibilities when it's done. (It shouldn't break any earlier code though.)
Post by: Kamani on January 27, 2018, 11:41:13 am
No worries. Sounds cool!
Post by: Kamani on January 28, 2018, 12:37:20 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 28, 2018, 03:49:52 am
Post by: Kamani on January 28, 2018, 04:03:58 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 28, 2018, 05:02:50 am
Saving works from a "bottom-up" logic: whenever an object is saved (converted into data), it checks each of its "children" to see if they were edited and need to be re-evaluated, and if not, it just uses their old data. This happens every time you exit an object editing menu; if you had to save the entire object the world builder would run much slower. Though it does result in bugs like this when I mess something up.
Post by: Kamani on January 28, 2018, 11:06:48 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 28, 2018, 05:39:15 pm
Post by: Kamani on January 28, 2018, 09:39:26 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 30, 2018, 08:18:41 am
I tested it by making a minor variation of the swap tiles that change when they are jumped on instead of when they are checked. It felt more natural, I guess?
There's no real system for forking and merging packages, though that's something that might be worth looking into. If you want to claim them and repackage them as your own, that's fine.
Post by: Kamani on January 30, 2018, 09:51:23 pm
I am used to puzzles when you click on them, so this seems more natural to me, but how can you do a jump check? I don’t really know.
On package forking: It would be highly appreciated by me. The delete/claim as own is kind of dubious, since someone could use someone else’s content and not credit them (probably by accident, but still rude).
Post by: Kamani on February 02, 2018, 03:21:32 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 03, 2018, 12:57:31 pm
Post by: Kamani on February 03, 2018, 01:10:54 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 07, 2018, 03:49:54 pm
A status effect is simply a sprite, ideally with "effect" checked although it is not required. Status-effect related settings are under the "Host Effects" menu. The most important of these is the "Modifiers" list, which lets you create a modifier for any variable and set additive, multiplicative, or "add multiplier" which stacks additively with other modifiers and multiplies the base value when applied. (So if a sprite is hit with two effects, each with, say, a _speed add multiplier of 0.25, their speed will be raised to 1.5 times their normal value.)
These modifiers can also temporarily overwrite a variable by setting "priority" to a value greater than zero and putting the desired value in the "set" field. The variable will be overwritten if the priority is greater than or equal to the sprite's current priority for that value. The "Set Temporary Variable" event for techniques interacts with these as though it had a priority of 1.
To apply an effect, set the effect sprite's _host variable to the desired host sprite. Effects will automatically set their position relative to the host. I'm going to add an event to apply an effect directly, currently you have to create the effect in a function and then set its _host, basically the way poison worked.
Items can also be given modifiers which work the same way when equipped. You can still only equip one item at a time, but multiple equipment slots are planned.
I've updated the spider venom to utilize the new system as an example; instead of draining _hp in its update function it now reduces _hp_regen by 0.025 (making regeneration negative and thereby dealing damage) and also cuts _speed in half.
I've also added an _atk_multiplier variable that just multiplies all base hitbox damage, since it's been in demand. I do intend to make proper melee weapons though.
Post by: Kamani on February 07, 2018, 04:23:36 pm
Post by: Kamani on February 09, 2018, 09:00:54 am
Edit: In addition, if a partition on a persistent item is not set, then will checking if it is 1 return as true or false? Unset variables act kind of oddly sometimes, so I want to check.
Edit: How do I say If (variable) is not equal to (whatever)? I don't know exactly how that would be written in this system, so...
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 10, 2018, 11:53:19 am
Basically the game will try to keep all players' total inventory "value" the same. So if you increase the price, items will disappear from player inventories to compensate, and if you lower the price, the reduced value will be converted into sparks. An item with zero value, if its price is increased to a non-zero number, will vanish from all existing inventories.
You can add new partitions after creating an item with partitions without any problems, but you can't change the bit count of an existing partition, or reorder them, after making them persistent, without messing up existing player's "saved" data. (If you try, you will be asked if you want to delete all player's data for that item).
Spoiler: Technical Info (click to show/hide)
All other properties - graphics, title, description, effects, even the names of partitions - can be changed without problems; player inventories will automatically update with the new properties.
Unset variables are always equal to 0.
Not equals is written as !=
Post by: Kamani on February 10, 2018, 04:19:50 pm
Okay. Thanks.
Okay. Thanks. That should make of statements easier.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 12, 2018, 03:28:51 pm
Using this feature, I made the game's first proper weapon - the Sealer Sword. It's a sword that attaches to the player sprite and sticks out in front of them, damaging enemies it makes contact with. It's packaged, so feel free to put it in your world or copy it as needed - using the same system it is very easy to make a new weapon simply by changing the graphics and stats. I intend to add a bunch of features to this particular sword as new item features are added. (It's not called the "Sealer" for nothing...)
Post by: Kamani on February 12, 2018, 03:33:04 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 13, 2018, 10:20:36 am
You can also target the sprite of an equipped item using {$itemname._sprite}
Combining this lets you make techniques that swing or spin a weapon. This is demonstrated in the Sealer Sword.
Note: the Sealer Sword has some independent AI. Don't copy its techniques for ordinary weapons.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 15, 2018, 07:00:04 am
Sprites can now have elemental damage multipliers, which causes them to take extra or reduced damage from a given element, and elemental affinities, which multiply all of their hitboxes with a certain element. Elements can be anything, they are evaluated through a simple string comparison.
Each hitbox can have one or more elements associated with it, each in different amounts. The total damage of the hitbox will be distributed based on the elements' relative values.
So for instance, you can have a hitbox that deals 50 base damage, and has the elemental values of 1 physical, 4 fire, and 5 lightning. This means it will deal 5 physical damage, 20 fire damage, and 25 lightning damage. If the attacking sprite has a x2 lightning affinity, the 25 lightning damage will be multiplied by 2. If the attacked sprite has a x1.5 weakness to fire, the fire damage will be increased to 30. The total damage in this situation will be 85.
You can also target a sprite's weakness or affinity for a given element using the keywords _weak.elementname._value or _elem.elementname._value. For example, creating effects that multiply a sprite's affinity for using a given element or applying an effect if the target sprite is weak to a particular element. If a sprite does not have a specific weakness or affinity to the specified element, the value will be automatically regarded as 1.
I think I'm going to start making some demo spells now.
Post by: Kamani on February 15, 2018, 09:46:39 am
Post by: magmaholic on February 17, 2018, 04:20:15 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 17, 2018, 06:22:44 pm
Is the sprite layer always below the character or can it be changed?.
You can change the draw order of a sprite under the "graphics" tab. Sprites with the same draw order will be drawn based on their Y position.
Post by: Kamani on February 18, 2018, 03:30:25 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 18, 2018, 07:42:34 am
I also added a new cutscene event with several options, such as disabling combat AI or freezing all physics. There will also be a way to "unlock" a sprite, allowing you to make cutscenes where some things are frozen and others are not.
Post by: Kamani on February 18, 2018, 12:23:45 pm
Neat!
Post by: magmaholic on February 19, 2018, 10:12:27 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 19, 2018, 02:10:57 pm
Tile collision is completely block based, yes. You can make sprites that pass through solid blocks by giving them the "ghostly" property. Sprites can function like tiles with more complex rules; tiles are meant for quickly rendering large numbers of objects so they are much simpler.
Post by: Eschar on February 25, 2018, 06:42:04 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 27, 2018, 04:24:53 pm
This will also likely involve the ability to equip multiple items at once, which will necessitate kind of system to organize their cumulative effects. For stat shifts this is less of an issue, but when items change the player's abilities it can become complicated. I guess the most sensible method would be to prevent multiple items from being equipped if they all alter the abilities of a particular button.
Post by: Kamani on February 27, 2018, 04:32:55 pm
B. In addition, for multiple items, allowing items to use slots might be nice. In other words, adding a value for items (or multiple values), and anything with a matching value couldn’t be equipped. That way, you could say that your boot armor that reduces damage is slot one, and so are your fast boots that increase speed, and that way, people can’t use both. Sorry if this was explained poorly, especially since I haven’t had the time to work on my project for a while.
Edit: Well, after getting some more done, I have one note: My gosh, balancing is HARD. I keep fighting the same like 7 enemies to figure out how it needs to be made easier without ruining difficulty. Oh, side note. When working with projectiles with special movement (IE, _update movement) and drop tiles, you probably want to set those to ghostly. Otherwise, projectiles that move straight up towards drop tiles act... Oddly. They loop up until something else would cause them to destroy. They might anyways, of course, as projectiles and drop tiles aren't really supposed to be connected with topdown tiles, but this makes it a little more likely that they will not mess up.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 02, 2018, 01:05:46 am
My suggestion would be to add a small graphic effect a few frames before firing a projectile. There are some explosion effects that can work with the Pyreskull. Since the Mushghast is constantly moving around normally, making it stop moving (setting _speed to 0) a few frames (say, 8 frames) before firing a spore could also work as a visual "tell".
Another possibility is to "lob" projectiles: upon creating them, make them "jump" toward the player's position over a set number of frames, and then create an explosion at the point of contact. This way, even at close range the player will have time to dodge. The robot-armored orc king in Protea uses this method for his bomb attacks.
Your minibosses also have similar randomness issues, particularly the ability where the Shadow Mage randomly teleports the player. Potentially unavoidable attacks with punishing damage = problematic design.
The golems are fairly balanced out in the open despite their multiplying mechanics, because the player can target the fragments like they are supposed to, but can be frustrating to fight in cramped corridors where it can be difficult to hit the fragments without hitting the golem as well.
As for the issues with drop tiles...well, drop tiles are still pretty buggy in general. For the cliff area, I'd suggest setting up invisible walls around all tiles that the player is not intended to drop off of (or jump up on). I'll get around to fixing them at some point.
Your item slot suggestion is what I am planning, though I'm not sure whether I should go with a small number of default slots or a large number. Probably going to go with a lot of slots. There will also be custom equipment slots for purposes of making custom player sprites that are able to equip their own unique items.
EDIT: Also, it looks like you changed the ID of one or more tilesets, which made it disappear from some rooms. Be careful changing the ID of objects that are already in the game. If you change it back without editing the room that it's missing from, or create a copy with the same name as the original, it should reappear unchanged.
Post by: Kamani on March 02, 2018, 04:16:05 pm
The golems didn’t seem to tricky to me, but I made them, so I suppose I know the tricks to beating them.
Ugh, I thought I had fixed everything after I changed my tileset IDs so I could keep stuff straight. Bleh.
Edit: Mushghasts are being kind of redesigned, since I don't think anyone is using them right now anyways. They will shoot a mushroom to the target's position that does no damage, but explodes into a cloud of spores that DOES deal damage after a second. The cloud of spores does .6 damage on contact, and since that hits 40ish times a second, that will BURN if you stand in it. But, because of how it is forecasted, it is quite easy to dodge. They are more dangerous if you pair them in groups with other enemies.
But, I am having an issue. I can't figure out how to set the target for the projectile to the target of the original attack (I think I have done it before even, but I just can't remember how. Ugh) so that it works with the formula. I think this would probably even be pretty easy if I could REMEMBER it, but I am having no luck, so I could use assistance.
Thank you. I hope these Mushghasts, as a kind of bulkier support offensive (I'll probably give them a basic tackle/rush style attack with low damage, because otherwise, they are near harmless on their own) work out better, since you are no longer guaranteed to take damage fighting them, no matter how careful you are (what was I thinking, even? I am totally mystified).
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 03, 2018, 12:39:34 pm
Oddly, the vertical height on this jump doesn't seem to work right...looking at the orc boss, it seems that I ran into the same issue and fudged it by making the bomb fire at a random vertical angle more or less in the direction of the player instead, rather than a proper targeted "lob". I'm going to have to fix that.
Also, make sure that targeted attack techs only have the "attack" box checked, not "self". Otherwise the AI might use itself as the target.
Post by: Kamani on March 03, 2018, 12:47:21 pm
Edit: Poorly phrased. I meant that I didn't consider you could use jumps that weren't just short jumps, even though I know it is possible.
Okay.
I think that comes from the gunslinger shoot attack. It shouldn’t be present on this one in particular, since this needs a target to work, but this was originally a shoot attack variant, so that is why (all of my shoot attacks were changed copies of changed copies of the original gunslinger attack because I couldn’t get mine to work back then. Probably could now, but why bother?)
Oddly enough, they don’t use it on themself anyway.
Edit: Okay, one issue. _target._x,_target._y just is read as 0,0. _target must not be working for some reason. Any clue what I am doing wrong?
Edit: Secondary issue: When my Spore transforms into a sporecloud (team was 2, sporecloud team is -1, so it should carry over), it becomes -1, leading it to damage the person who fired it too. It should probably not be changing if the thing it is transforming into is set to team -1?
Edit: Tilesets fixed. Plus, one of the rooms randomly switched thematic tileset, so it was good to change it anyway.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 04, 2018, 12:28:26 am
As for damaging its own team, the spore isn't transforming into the sporecloud, it's creating a new sporecloud object and destroying itself. You can fix this by either making it a proper transformation, or ticking the "As Spawn" box in the Create event.
Post by: Kamani on March 04, 2018, 02:13:16 am
Oh. I thought I had had it transform. Okay, that was foolish. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 04, 2018, 07:04:28 am
The equipment options aren't working yet, so ignore them for now.
Post by: Kamani on March 04, 2018, 12:08:35 pm
Okay.
Edit: Edited the Pyreskull. Now they explode 40 frames before they shoot. I want to check this one before I put it up, but, it seems to work well. Also, faced of against 6 mushghasts, which was rather fun.
Edit: So how can I make effects work? I want to apply the BlueInferno effect (lasts 40 frames, does nothing) to an enemy that moves a lot to forecast its big fire attack, but applying it with the effect effect did seemingly nothing. So I don't really know what I did wrong, but I probably forgot something again.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 05, 2018, 04:29:55 am
Nice work with the two enemies, they are much more fair and fun to fight now. They also have good synergy together, though they can be tricky (though not exactly unfair) to fight in narrow corridors.
I could make some suggestions for overall dungeon design:
Principle of Isolation: introduce new elements on their own, in an area that is easier to deal with them, so the player knows what they are dealing with before facing more challenging areas.
Maybe include an easy area at the beginning of the dungeon, or even before the dungeon proper (in the village?), where you are faced with one or two enemies out in the open on their own. That way the player can get familiar with their abilities before fighting them in the dungeon''s cramped areas.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 05, 2018, 12:28:12 pm
The equipment system has been rebuilt, so old equipment items must be given appropriate parameters to work (notably whether an item is equippable or not is no longer guessed by the game itself, instead you check a checkbox to mark it as equippable).
The player can now equip multiple items. Each item can be associated with one or more slots; if the item is equippable it takes up these slots when equipped, if the item is usable it merely requires the user to have the associated equipment slot to work. There are many default slots, and it is also possible to create custom slots for player transformations.
The default slots are the following (the default avatar has all of them active):
Main hand (i.e. weapons)
Off hand (i.e. shields)
Body
Head
Arms
Legs
Hands
Feet
Neck
Belt
Aura (for equipment that changes the player's magic ability, elemental effects, or other major gameplay changes)
Food (mainly for potions and the like but due to a quirk in how the item slots work it also works as an equipment slot)
If multiple slots are selected, the item requires all of them. (Example: a 2-handed sword requires both hands, full body armor requires multiple armor slots.)
You can also designate equipment as an "accessory"; this will make the item require the given slot or slots, but not exclude other items on that slot. (Example: rings can be accessories for the hands.) To limit the use of accessories (or other powerful equipment items), items can have an "equipment value". The default avatar's maximum combined equipment value is 100.
Finally, you can add an additional expression that determines if an item can be used or equipped.
Shops coming soon!
Post by: Kamani on March 05, 2018, 05:46:13 pm
(Previous Post Responses)
Ohhh. Okay.
Thanks. Glad they should be more fun to fight now.
I tried to introduce enemies one at a time in the first room of the dungeon (Except the Spid's Guard (also redone), which is introduced in the first dungeon room of the second half). I can make the rooms more favorable to the player, if that would improve it.
Ugh, just realized that room 2 wasn't included in the changes because it used special copies of enemies. More copying stuff around. (Need to stop messing this up).
Edit: Well... Instead of using an effect, I just set it to just to the location of it (in the technique) every 2nd frame (to reduce lag, since 1/20 vs. 1/40 of a second probably won't make a difference), but it doesn't seem to be working. Did I make a foolish mistake, or did I fundamentally misunderstand how something works again?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 06, 2018, 05:49:30 am
But using an effect would be much simpler in this case, just {Set blinf._host to _this} right after creating the flame. (This method will still work once the effect event is functional)
EDIT: So after experimenting with the effects of shops on gameplay I have come to a realization: most non-key items should have limited uses. Otherwise, it will be extremely difficult to balance powerful items with most players' worlds, meaning that most world builders will not import items, meaning that players will be forced to carry around loads of functionally identical items that differ only in the worlds they can be used in.
So I'm going to make some options for destructable weapons and armor. This is already possible to make using partitions but I think it should be a default parameter. This will also require the ability to carry multiple copies of the same item. I'm not entirely sure how non-stacked items will be specified in expressions, but I'll try to come up with something sensible.
While I'm at it, I'm going to add MP to items as well. Item MP will recover when the item is not in use and even when the game is not being played. This will allow you to make, for example, a spell that can only be used a certain number of times in a real-time day.
Post by: Kamani on March 06, 2018, 10:03:34 am
Post by: RoseHeart on March 12, 2018, 07:46:52 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 13, 2018, 07:18:18 am
I know this update is taking a while, but it'll be worth it. I'm adding a bunch of new options for items that are all kind of interconnected and require copious amounts of testing. Features expected to be in the next update:
Any sprite can have an inventory, items can be added to sprites in the world builder
"Pickup" sprites generated automatically from item data, items can be placed directly on the field without needing to create a separate sprite, dead enemies drop their items
Shops with various trading systems (spark-based, bartering, custom currency, limited or unlimited inventories)
Items have HP and MP, and regen speeds for both
Individual copies of the same item class, instead of simply a stack with a number associated with it (each instance of an item can have its own HP, MP, and stored partition variables)
Post by: Kamani on March 13, 2018, 10:13:49 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 14, 2018, 10:47:17 am
In the future, I may implement some kind of system that encourages world builders to start small, releasing smaller, playable samples before allowing them to fully invest themselves in a full-sized project. Otherwise, it's easy to set your goals too high and get discouraged before you even have something to add.
Post by: Kamani on March 14, 2018, 11:54:38 am
Edit: I am starting on the boss. I found a giant spider sprite, even if it isn't really what I want. I can't sprite for my life, so I am stuck with what I found for now. Maybe I'll change it some other time.
Edit: Working on a more complicated attack for the boss. Any ideas on how I would go about drawing a line between a boss and a target (optimally with a line of blue fires, but not something needed)? I want to forecast the charge attack pretty heavily, since it will hit like a truck. Most of the other attacks will be easier to forecast (mostly target signs on the ground), but I am puzzled on this one.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 15, 2018, 11:22:50 pm
Maybe create small flames at random nearby positions and have them move toward the boss for a "sucking in energy" effect? The boss's _flashlevel can increase as they charge up to make them glow.
Post by: Kamani on March 15, 2018, 11:32:01 pm
That would fit for a more explodey attack, but I want this one to specifically show a charge. I want the first phase to be split between some low damage stuff that is a little harder to avoid, but not really hard, and some very high damage (as in 20-33ish damage, probably) but very easy to dodge (on their own) attacks. The second phase will have lots of low damage attacks to force you to think on your feet, but with less punishment for Amy given mistake.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 15, 2018, 11:59:17 pm
Sounds like a cool design. Can't wait to see it in action!
Also, I like what you've done with the hidden rooms. I guess those will be how you tie in this world with your other worlds?
Post by: Kamani on March 16, 2018, 12:13:50 am
Thanks! I hope it turns out well.
You got it. I want my worlds to feel a bit more interconnected. Another example is that if you have the memento from my other current world (and eventually other worlds as well), then you will have a different dialogue when entering the town, since you have a memento from one of the other people trusted by the village. You probably won't get any sparks out of these, since they won't add much time to it, and I have to keep that balanced (sigh), but I do want them to be interesting enough to make it worthwhile. I plan to have two more secret rooms, except those will be in the town (although one of them will only be accessible after completing the dungeon, and only if you bought a rope, so don't just worldhop. The other... Well, that one is secret. There are hints towards it, but only if you think about it closely. Of course, it is completely foreseeable that someone would find it by mistake. Well, c'est la vie).
Edit: Problem 1. My boss seems to be running into some trouble with their charges getting stuck on the outer walls. This means that any kind of charge can be avoided using the walls. Perhaps I'll have to make the outer walls damaging so that the boss can get to them, but the player is forced away? I don't want my boss somehow charging off the walls, so...
Problem 2: Despite the fact that I set up the markers (currently labeled test) to set their location when created, but when I set it to aim at it (assuming that the location should be the last one set), it just aims at the original target (or possibly the second aim function specific position set failed, so it just defaulted to aiming at the target. Could have misused it, causing it to ignore it). I have had no luck with this yet, although I am guessing that this one is just me forgetting something obvious.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 16, 2018, 02:40:54 am
Dashes automatically stop and "freeze" for the remaining duration when the user hits a wall; this is intentional (to avoid messing up the timing of moves that incorporate dashes). The issue is that the boss is charging at the center of the player's position, but its hitbox is much bigger than the player's.
Perhaps if the "liner" has a hitbox the size of the boss, but instead of being fired as a projectile it is a mobile object that has a stalking radius of 0. This will cause it to "walk" toward the player and will therefore not encounter issues with the walls. Then, the boss can use it as the target for the dash instead, ensuring that the target location is not too close to a wall.
Or you can just cheese it by making the boss ghostly.
I'm not sure what the issue with the absolute positioning of a dash is, it looks like it simply doesn't work and the ability's current target is always used as the dash target. I'll try to get that fixed up, though my current version isn't quite ready for uploading yet.
Post by: Kamani on March 16, 2018, 01:18:47 pm
Okay. Thank you.
Edit: Huh, not really sure if I want to redo the third room of the second half or remove it entirely. Right now, it feels totally unnecessary (although I may use the tile bit I used there elsewhere), but I don't know if it is worth the effort of fixing.
Edit: By the way, the target icon gets really large for giant enemies, which looks kind of silly. I'm guessing it is a placeholder anyway, but it feels kind of odd when it stretches out to the entire field on an enemy with a 78 radius hitbox (Nearly a 5 block diameter. Yeesh, they did end up large).
Edit: Second attack plan: Target appears on ground at player location. In 2 or 3ish seconds, a massive damage attack hits there, and blue fire is shot out in a spiral pattern (4 at a time, every 1/8 to 1/4 second, I think). Combines the big attack with the small attack. Ugh, working out the conditions for attacks will probably be a huge pain. I don't want there to be tons of big attacks at once, especially of the ones like this that also add field conditions.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 17, 2018, 12:52:46 pm
The target is a placeholder, yes. Maybe I'll give it a minimum and maximum size.
About that charge attack, you can make a slightly different version by setting _stalk_rad and _stalk_max to 0 (which will make it attempt to collide with the target), and adjusting _speed, _accel, and _frict to determine the properties of motion during this period. (Using Ghostly can get a bit silly if you want the boss to have stalking or wandering behavior at all.)
I'll try and fix up some kind of option for moving in a straight line more reliably... the "Walk" command would be ideal, but it's still kind of unreliable except for cutscenes, I need to give it proper "failure conditions" so that it cancels if the user gets stuck.
The room with the circular flame thing doesn't seem too bad...The only part of the dungeon I really don't like are the tile puzzles...though probably just because I suck at these particular kind of puzzles :). Maybe add an option in the second room that lets you pay a few tokens to cheat :P
Oh, also worth noting that it is possible for the teleporting flames to wind up in unreachable spots, making some of the later rooms unwinnable. Maybe have them teleport back to their original position after a few seconds (just use _origin as the jump destination point, that should work I think).
Post by: Kamani on March 17, 2018, 12:58:44 pm
Okay.
With that, I think the boss will be immobile except when attacking in phase one, so I shouldn’t have to worry too much.
Fair enough. I suppose I could make it skippable for some tokens. It would also help me, since testing that room takes ages. Every time. Edit: Any advice on how many tokens it should cost? I mean, a healing potion was 4, so maybe 2 or 3?
Huh. They should teleport again if the tile they are on isn’t a floor. Strange. Ah well, I’ll do that. Edit: Done. On a 400 second timer that resets every time they get teleported.
Edit: Uh, what are the horizontal angles measured in? I used the 360 degrees, but it didn't seem to work. I had some right next to each other, even though everything is 90 degrees apart. Is this in radians or something?
Edit: My fire attacks from the boss seem to be hitting the boss too, even though they are on the same team. I thought I had solved this earlier, but apparently I didn't. Anyways, this is messing the boss up (run underneath them, watch them use the explodey attack, deal massive damage), so how can I fix it?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 17, 2018, 04:42:43 pm
The horizontal angles are supposed to be in degrees, but it looks like they're being converted to radians here for some reason. Just leave them for the now. I'll make a hotfix on some of these issues at least once I get to a proper computer. Probably tomorrow.
Post by: Kamani on March 17, 2018, 04:45:25 pm
Okay. Weird. Glad I won’t have to try to use radians.
Edit: 1st of the smaller barrage attacks. Shoots fire from every side of the screen. It is low damage (3) and is pretty easily dodged on its own, but paired with a big attack, it should make things interesting. Side question: Is there any way to make damage block ignoring? I don't really want people to defend the big attack. The point is to dodge them, so halving the damage kind of messes that up.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 18, 2018, 02:01:30 am
I fixed the degrees and radians issue, at least partly. There's still a bit of an issue with using expressions in directional variables.
I've also fixed some things relating to projectiles in non-technique functions. You can make a nicer fire spiral by using the _update function - each frame, increase the BlueFireSpiral's _face variable by a small amount (which causes it to rotate). Then, every few frames, create 4 projectiles, with their horizontal directions set to 0, 90, 180, and 270. Projectile directions are added to the direction the sprite is facing, so this creates a 4-way spinning spiral.
Post by: Kamani on March 18, 2018, 02:07:01 am
Oh good. Thanks.
Well, the shoot bit is the way it is because I wasn’t sure if shooting would work without a target, so I aimed them at 0,0. I can do it that way, since would work better.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 18, 2018, 03:11:45 am
Post by: Kamani on March 18, 2018, 03:13:17 am
Edit: Done and done. Set up elements and the flame spiral's improved design. Not sure what to do for my next attack, so that one might take a little longer, but I'll think of something.
Edit: Huh, still stuck for ideas. Any ideas for attacks?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 20, 2018, 12:26:42 am
I would suggest giving the boss a bit more random motion and taking away the ghostly property. I'm going to try working out a system that allows a charge attack to work without getting stuck.
Post by: Kamani on March 20, 2018, 06:36:09 am
Considering that it is impossible for the boss to reach you in corners, even with a good angle, I’ll leave it as is for now and change it when that system is in place.
Edit: Oh, by the way, the second phase will have more random motion, as it is smaller and therefore will have less of these kind of issues. The second phase will also be a little more mobility themed when it comes to attacks, so that should work out well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 21, 2018, 03:28:06 pm
Items can also have HP and MP now, which can be called using $itemname._hp or _mp. Items can be stacked as well, but any item that is equipped, does not have full HP or MP, or has partition values set will be separated from the stack. Using $itemname to call a partition value, hp or mp will prioritize an equipped item, otherwise it will use the first item of the given name on the list. This method makes most basic item uses simple (equipped items take damage or can have limited uses, partitioned items are generally unique mementos and don't need to be stacked anyway), but more complicated systems will be trickier, so I'll have to add some less awkward methods of specifying exactly which inventory item you want to read/modify.
I've also improved the "Walk" event so the "Continue on failure" option actually works. The sprite will evaluate whether it actually moved any closer to the destination each frame, if not, it will assume it is stuck on an obstacle and proceed to the next event. By adjusting _speed and creating a Walk command, you can make a proper "charge" attack. Note that unlike Jumps and Dashes, Walk events do not have a "fixed" timespan and are better used in functions rather than techniques (you can call a function from a technique and call a technique from a function though, to create an ability that utilizes both.)
Post by: Kamani on March 21, 2018, 05:31:01 pm
Okay.
Okay. But I think I’ll keep ghostly on the first phase anyway. Even with improved walk, the size of the hitbox works so that the player can hide in a corner either way, I believe.
Edit: Firebreath is done, as is another attack that hits three random spots with high damage explosions (Same as the one in the spiral flames, but this time with no spiraling flames). Up next is the fire trap one.
Edit: Hmm... I wonder if I could combine the three random spots with the fire trap. Would work better, seeing as they are similar concepts.
Edit: Well, I did that, but there seems to be a strange issue. The first time, it works normally except for the jumps, which fail (see the next edit). But then, after that, they aren't even working in the first place, so the create functions aren't working, and it isn't clear why.
Edit: It also seems that the projectile jumps are waiting until the last ones end, which is what is causing the jumps to fail. They shouldn't be waiting this way, so I am confused about that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 22, 2018, 02:19:58 am
Post by: Kamani on March 22, 2018, 09:02:37 am
I’m not yet entirely sure of the specifics of the second phase, but I know that the boss will be normal spider sized instead of giant, and will be far more mobile. It will still forecast all the big attacks, but you’ll have less time, and they’ll do more like 20 damage instead of 35. The second phase will be less punishing for a single mistake, but since you’ll have less time to dodge, mistakes will be easier to make. If it works well, it should turn out pretty neat.
I still need to set up timers and stuff to control skill use. But the boss only had 100 life, so it even out a little. Still not sure how much health exactly to give the first phase.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 22, 2018, 09:32:04 am
Something to try: give him 1000 HP and make Flamestorm only usable when he has less than 100 HP remaining. Flamestorm makes the battle much harder so it probably should only be active near the end.
If there's a dialogue in between the first and second phase, make sure to either destroy all fireballs or run a "physics disabled" cutscene event to avoid being hit during the dialogue. Shadow Mage also has this issue, you can get hit during the ending dialogue.
Post by: Kamani on March 22, 2018, 01:20:06 pm
I’ll do that. I haven’t really tested out how the skills combine much, so I wasn’t aware how much of a difference it made.
Oh. Oops. Hadn’t considered that. Since I am thinking about redoing the Shadow Mage boss fight anyways, I’ll do those at the same time.
Side Question: would there be a easy way to save the entire state of the room (optional exclusion of life), and then reset to it later (including destroyed objects)? This isn’t relevant for this project, but it would be a neat thing for the next, as a boss attack (something similar was used in Undertale’s final boss (normal route), if you ever played it). It would fit with my concept for the next project excellently.
Also, I think I might combine all the mementos from my projects into one, since otherwise they might clutter people’s inventories too much. Using it would bring up the details of the stuff you have obtained. Opinions?
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 22, 2018, 03:09:37 pm
Persistent rooms are saved in their entirety when you leave and return. It is entirely possible to make an function that passes the player to a different area and then returns them to the first one with all changes to the room retained. (This only works as long as the player remains in the same world though.)
Post by: Kamani on March 22, 2018, 03:41:04 pm
That isn’t quite what I mean. I mean have the room continue and then go back to how it was when it was saved (health could be saved as a global variable, so I could make that not jump back. If I could save and load a room as persistent while in it that might work, but I don’t know if that would actually work. Also, room transfer load time would be annoying.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 22, 2018, 04:55:50 pm
There will likely be a more elaborate checkpoint system at some point in the future, though; I'll consider making it in a way that allows something like this.
Post by: Kamani on March 22, 2018, 04:58:26 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 24, 2018, 01:58:55 pm
- Apply Effect and Remove Effect events work now
- Hitboxes can also apply effects on hit, so you don't need to make a new function for your poison attack or whatever
- New variables for sprites, _enemy and _ally. It refers to either the closest enemy or ally in targeting range, or a specific enemy or ally if one is specifically targeted, and is equal to 0 if there is no enemy or ally in range. Intended for attack or cure items. (You can make the usage condition {_enemy != 0} to make an item only usable if there is a nearby enemy.)
I'm planning on adding some more complex AI so that units can have built-in behaviors more complicated than "mindlessly attack nearest unit on a different team". Stuff like revenge, fear, protection, and cooperation. I want there to be neutral creatures that you can either attack or feed and have them behave appropriately (right now neutral units just ignore you).
Post by: Kamani on March 24, 2018, 04:23:30 pm
That will be cool.
Edit: How should I forecast firebreath? Right now, it can deal brutal damage, since you can't see it coming and then it can hit like 10 times for 3 each.
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 25, 2018, 06:40:50 am
I'm actually making a new flash effect (also quake effect) system that will look nicer and be less buggy than the current one. Shouldn't make a major impact on current functions, except possibly for the Shadow Mage's turning the player black. There will be a better way to do it though.
Post by: Kamani on March 25, 2018, 10:29:03 am
Neat! Good thing I was planning to redo Shadow Mage anyway.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 03, 2018, 04:28:46 pm
The way colors work throughout the whole program have been pretty much completely overhauled, color selectors now use RGBA numeric selectors instead of a text field, which is more consistent overall. You've still got that HTML button to select a specific color as well.
Took a bit of testing to get a good balance between making it simple to do basic stuff and also being capable of more complicated effects, but I think it's come out pretty good. You can add a simple color flash event, a looping color flash, a 2-color blink, add color flashes to hitboxes (you'll notice that all hitboxes now create a small white flash by default), link flashes to sprites (which causes the flash to go away when the sprite is destroyed, allowing you to apply a continuous graphic flash along with a regular status effect), adjust the timing of the flash "wave", and even add a cubic-bezier curve to customize the flash effect however you like, if you're into that kind of thing. Flash effects can be applied to sprites or over the entire _room. (Some of the continuous flash timing might still be a little off, but its intended functionality is pretty self-explanatory in the tooltips. I'll debug it later.)
Flash effects are cumulative. A single sprite can have multiple flash effects at once.
You can also adjust the basic color mask of a sprite by using the sprite._color variable. Colors are objects, they can have their _r, _g, _b, and _a (_a is alpha/opacity) values set through a function. So you can make a sprite's color more or less opaque by changing sprite._color._a; this serves the same role that _flashlevel did before. (_flashlevel should still work but it may be depreciated in the future since it's redundant.) _flashcolor no longer works.
I think most existing colorization effects should be retained, except in the case where a color was set inside a function, but that's okay because the new flash events are just better overall.
Post by: Kamani on April 03, 2018, 04:44:01 pm
Additionally, sorry about not having touched my project in over a week. Oddly enough, I suddenly had a bunch of exams and tests to study for. They’re finally over (for now), so I should be able to get back to it tomorrow.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 05, 2018, 10:42:53 am
Post by: Kamani on April 08, 2018, 04:27:50 pm
Edit: Didn't happen this time. Odd.
Edit: Cause determined. If I click the checkbox to the left of the zero on the start line, then, if I reenter to edit, I am unable to leave.
Edit: How can I prevent an enemy from turning?
Edit: Flash effects in the function update menu don't seem to be working on my firebreath attack. I don't know what could be wrong, although I likely messed SOMETHING up, so do you have any clue what it could be?
Edit: Is there any way I can get some random movement in combat? With the second phase of the boss, I don't want it to mostly be immobile, but avoidance distance/stalking range and making it move to use attacks doesn't seem quite enough.
Also, it seems that something is wrong with avoidance distance. I had avoidance distance set to 48, but if it gets within the radius after using the charge attack, then it runs away and continues to do so until its rush attack triggers again. It should be stopping running away once it reaches that point, so... I don't know what is wrong.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 09, 2018, 02:35:10 am
The reason the flashes aren't working is because the "host" needs to be set. It's supposed to attach to the user automatically if no host is set but I made a mistake. That will be fixed for the next update. (You can use _this in the meantime).
To prevent an enemy from turning, set _turn to 0.
For random movement, use the "idle movement" options. Sprites in between their minimum and maximum stalking radius will move as if they are idle.
The issue with avoidance distance is that you have friction set to 0. It tries to move away and then keeps sliding.
Post by: Kamani on April 09, 2018, 08:52:13 am
Okay. Thanks. That should make the charge look less silly.
Oh, good to know. Thought idle movement was out of combat only. Thanks.
Oops. Thought I had changed that. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 09, 2018, 12:11:14 pm
I've made some significant internal changes to the way functions operate (mostly so that the "Continue Immediately" option for events like Walk, Jump, Flash and Dash should work properly), but I don't think it'll cause any major changes to any existing functions. I went through your world and didn't noticed any issues. Let me know if something doesn't work right.
There's a rare but rather major bug that popped up a few updates ago. If you load a room and it comes up empty, DO NOT save! This will save it as empty. I've only seen this twice but I'm not sure what causes it. Going to work on fixing that.
Combat's looking pretty nice right now (which is especially funny when you realize that BoundWorlds wasn't originally going to have a combat system at all), so I'd like to add in more storytelling-friendly systems. I think the next major thing I work on will be...flowcharts! Technically they won't do anything that you couldn't do with functions, but it will make big, complicated dialogue trees possible without clumsy stacks of If/Else statements.
Post by: Kamani on April 09, 2018, 12:35:32 pm
Thanks for the warning. I would hate to lose a room to a glitch.
Thank gosh. When I start making the item that will handle all of my project, that would have the worst set of Else/If statements.
Edit: Spids Boss Tips: Spring Jump will be needed. If you don't use it, firebreath is likely to get you pinned, and if that happens, you lose. It does huge damage. But it does have a 90 frame visual warm up. Looks kind of silly if Spids uses the charge attack at the same time, but it also is a rather interesting attack to dodge, so I think I'll leave that in as a possibility.
Edit: Having a little trouble deciding what kind of attacks to give Spids round 2. Currently, the only thing I think I am going to use is a watered down version of firestorm (since the stronger version is even more mean when dealing with a fairly mobile enemy), and likely a Rush attack variant, since it seemed pretty interesting in my testing.
Edit: Testing attack: A flame spiral from Spids. 90ish frame warm up, still in testing. Seems okay?
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 11, 2018, 02:15:18 pm
The first phase of the boss is pretty brutal, I think mainly because the flamestorm never really lets up. There's no "safe" phase to attack the boss, since there's always a ton of stuff going on on-screen. That could be what you're going for, but I can see more casual players giving up. (At least you don't have to start over from the beginning.)
Spoiler: Rambling on about boss design (click to show/hide)
My suggestion would be to shorten the length of Flamestorm, or increase its cooldown so that there are times when the player can attack without having to worry about dodging a constant barrage of flames.
EDIT: Oh, also I fixed up some issues relating to transformation, and also patched up item drops. If you put items in a creature's inventory (either from the class editor or by modifying their $itemname value), and that item has the "droppable" box checked, it will drop the items it is carrying when it dies.
Post by: Kamani on April 11, 2018, 02:22:01 pm
I’ll do that (flame storm changes). Somehat ironically enough, this dungeon was originally intended to be pretty easy. Pretty sure I blew that. I guess I’ll just move it up a tier or two in my plan and make a different dungeon to be easy.
Thank you for the rambling on about boss design section. It is helpful in understanding boss design, in both this project and in games that I have played.
Edit: Edit about fixes noticed. Thank you.
Edit: ... Thinking about it, I need to come up with 12ish names for the small town. Oh great.
Edit: And a name for the item that will contain all the memory partitions for this project. Bonus with that: People get stuck with whatever memory partitions they take, unless they restart the entire thing, so people will get stuck with whatever choices they make. This won't generally be relevant, but it will be in a few instances. Nothing major, but what you say to certain characters will change their dialogue permanently as long as partitions are set.
Edit: Oh great, I just realized I haven't even thought of a name for the village.
Edit: Sometimes, the create function on the fire spiral seems to fail for no apparent reason. More often when attacked, but not reliably even then. I am a little confused at what could be wrong here. Any clue what could be wrong?
Edit: After making the spiral generator visible, I have concluded that it is the create function that is failing for some reason. I don't know WHY, but I do know what individual part is broken, at least.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 12, 2018, 12:25:14 pm
By the way, are you balancing using the stomp attack? I will probably make it into an equippable item.
Post by: Kamani on April 12, 2018, 12:33:31 pm
I didn’t realize there was a stomp attack, so no. Oops.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 12, 2018, 02:10:36 pm
Post by: Kamani on April 12, 2018, 02:13:57 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 12, 2018, 03:00:49 pm
By the way, when you go to the second phase, make sure that the boss isn't off the edge of the arena. Maybe have him jump to the middle for the _ondeath event, then transform.
Is there any reason why you always seem to use create events instead of transform events? Create events work too, but it's a little odd.
Post by: Kamani on April 12, 2018, 03:04:19 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 13, 2018, 08:30:46 am
You can now add flash effects to tilemaps, layers, and rooms, both in the world builder and through in-game functions. You can also colorize items in the world builder.
I bought a nice movie making program. Going to try and make some preview videos.
Post by: Kamani on April 13, 2018, 08:34:05 am
Post by: Imic on April 14, 2018, 03:12:54 pm
Post by: Kamani on April 14, 2018, 03:21:15 pm
Side note: Do you think I should put more skills on phase 2 Spids? I am kind of running into a wall with ideas.
Ugh, that reminds me. I still need names for things. Bleh. At least I managed to find two I like. Just leaves 12ish to go.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 14, 2018, 04:03:48 pm
I don't think you really need any more skills for phase 2. Phase 1 seems to be the "main" boss, and it's pretty good - phase 2 feels like a "last ditch surprise attack", which is fine. You don't expect a small spider to be more threatening than a giant spider.
Fun fact about the _ondeath function, the sprite will not actually die until the function is complete, after which it checks to see if it should still die before actually dying. So you can actually pack a whole cutscene in there if you like. And transformations will revive it completely (this is a special rule, transformations maintain the HP percentage that it had before, except in cases where it is at 0 HP).
Don't think too hard about names for minor characters (most NPCs don't even have names). Honestly just naming characters after the things you have on your desk can feel more creative than trying to come up with fantasy-novel names. Or you can just go to http://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/.
EDIT: I fixed a recent bug with the trigger code that was affecting some of the older worlds. It should work properly now.
Post by: Kamani on April 14, 2018, 04:34:24 pm
Fair enough. Thanks.
Good to know. The current transformation was just to test it out, but that should make it easier to make a good one for real. Thank you.
I guess. I just don’t want NPCs to be non-entities, even if most of them will never have their pasts mentioned or be explored.
That reminds me. I should consider renaming Elen and Alend. They became more important to the project then I planned when I chose the names (they were originally just going to be in that dungeon, then I figured I would put them in other projects, then they became core to my full project), so I don’t feel like names that were basically copied from a book (with the last letters cut off) are right, especially since the characters have absolutely nothing to do with the characters that they basically share names with.
Post by: Kamani on April 14, 2018, 10:51:54 pm
Post by: Imic on April 15, 2018, 03:14:48 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2018, 03:33:45 am
I've never seen this before. It shouldn't be possible.
Do you have a browser tab that has been open since you last loaded it?
Post by: Imic on April 15, 2018, 04:37:39 am
Nevermind.
Post by: Kamani on April 15, 2018, 09:05:26 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2018, 10:02:37 am
I can only assume that something went wrong during the last save and somehow the code compiled a legitimately formatted, but completely empty world file.
Now I feel terrible.
I'm going to set up an automatic backup system and maybe something to check for suspiciously empty save data so this doesn't happen again. It'll double my data usage, but I can't have people losing their work because the code hiccups.
I'm really sorry.
Post by: Kamani on April 15, 2018, 10:08:07 am
Okay.
Eh, glitches happen. I probably should have been saving backups anyway. I’ll just have to make it again. Shouldn’t take as long this time, either, since I learned a lot going through it the first time (plus, all of my monsters are saved, since I released them as a package). It is a pain, but that’s life.
Okay.
Eh, don’t worry about it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2018, 01:19:32 pm
This won't happen a second time.
Glad to hear you're still up for building. You're right that rebuilding is often a lot easier than building the first time, but it's still got to be frustrating.
Maybe release bits of the dungeon piece by piece, each part with a public gate, and then tie them together afterwards. That way you'll give other players a chance to test out your creations and not just me, and also earn some sparks while you're at it. (There are other people playing - I can see them logging in - but nobody seems too keen on building, for whatever reason).
Actually, now that I've set up a system where each world can have multiple data files, I might make a system where each world can have both a "public" and a "private" version active at the same time, so you can make experimental updates on an active world without affecting other players.
Post by: Kamani on April 15, 2018, 02:29:50 pm
K.
It is frustrating, but that is life. If you give up when bad things happen, you never get anywhere.
I guess I could release it in thirds(village, dungeon 1st half, dungeon full). But, since I have no intention of making the items gained from tokens persistent (and there will be a use for the rope in the village), I’d probably just block off the end once reached or something.
That would be handy. Would have been useful while I was testing Shadowmage for example (I should probably gave them an actual name (this makes more sense when read after my comment on NPC names from just before the post about it randomly deleting itself. So I attached it). Their past will be explored, to a limited extent, in some of the secret room events).
From earlier post on character names (which got missed because I ended up posting a second time for that glitch), which was in response to NPC names not being that important:
I guess. I just don’t want NPCs to be non-entities, even if most of them will never have their pasts mentioned or be explored.
That reminds me. I should consider renaming Elen and Alend. They became more important to the project then I planned when I chose the names (they were originally just going to be in that dungeon, then I figured I would put them in other projects, then they became core to my full project), so I don’t feel like names that were basically copied from a book (with the last letters cut off) are right, especially since the characters have absolutely nothing to do with the characters that they basically share names with.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 15, 2018, 04:07:00 pm
What are you planning for the Shadow Mage though? I'm a bit of mixed opinions about that one, because his sprite is (a) very recognizable, (b) very cool, and (c) created by one of the main contributors to OpenGameArt (RedShrike), and then made the sprite free for public use which is not common for boss sprites, which means that a lot of world builders (myself included) are probably going to want to make a boss out of him.
He looks insane and voidy, so I'd expect a multiple-choice loose canon would be acceptable.
My basic idea was that the creature itself - Harlequin Epicycle (I prefer to keep the name the original artist gave, plus it's a cool name) - is not really a "person" so much as an abstract force, but people who touch the Void between the Worlds can slowly take on his shape as they are consumed by the Void. That basic concept allows people to come up with their own versions of the character while still maintaining a sense of cohesion. (I guess a similar concept could be used for any other different characters who happen to share public-domain sprites.)
Does that fit with your plans?
Post by: Kamani on April 15, 2018, 06:55:07 pm
Shadow Mage is a close friend of Spids (which is primarily why they are assisting with Elen and Alend’s project in the first place. They have no real interest personally, besides being there for Spids), who they originally met when they originally traveled (and transformed. They didn’t become bitter and transform, they saw themself as a shadow, so that is what they became. Sort of). I doubt any more than that will ever be mentioned (although some more exists, it mostly just exists in my head to make character actions and dialogue fit better with who they are), especially as they don’t tend to talk about themself, but they are not being consumed by the void. Although doing a take on that might be interesting... Eh, another time.
Edit: Ugh, I hate trying to explain characters. Even if I know why they are interesting, I can never get it down right. It should be more interesting in practice than in brief explanation.
A note on pronouns: I use they to refer to everyone, always. Sorry if it can occasionally be a bit hard to tell who I am referring to.
Edit: Is something up with the resources search tab page system? I don't seem to be able to find spider without specifically searching for it. I am guessing that it would go past 2, and the pages don't go past 2 for some reason. Not sure, just guessing, but...
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 16, 2018, 04:18:15 am
Don't worry too much about using public art, I'll make it an aspect of the lore. Forms of monsters have their own existence independent of the people who take them, so multiple people can take the same form. If players want their art assets to not be used by other players, they have to draw them themselves.
Releasing the dungeon in thirds seems like a good idea. You can make them public exits in the meantime.
Oh, by the way, the way the doppelganger object works has been changed. It is no longer a copy of the player object, instead it simply copies the player's class when it is created (this means the player sprite actually has AI, it is just normally overridden by the fact the player is controlling them). This makes it a bit harder to modify directly, but if you still want to make weak shadow clones you can adjust their variables and apply flash effects after creating doppelgangers.
Post by: Kamani on April 16, 2018, 07:06:52 am
That works. Makes it easier, since a fairly large number of people will jut use the easily available open art.
I’ll do so then. Thanks.
Okay. Considering my (lack of) plans for the Shadow Mage fight, it might not matter for that, although I’ll probably use doppelganger eventually.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 16, 2018, 02:25:16 pm
Post by: Kamani on April 16, 2018, 02:35:48 pm
Post by: Kamani on April 23, 2018, 04:11:48 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 23, 2018, 04:23:36 pm
I should be getting the flowchart system done soon, so you'll have some new tools to play with by then.
Post by: Kamani on April 23, 2018, 05:56:33 pm
Oh good. That should make the dialogue system for the core item for my project less of a nightmare to make.
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 26, 2018, 02:41:26 pm
Classes can have flowcharts, which are accessed by clicking the "Edit Flowchart" under the "Functions" tab. Each class has an infinite "flowchart space" where you can add nodes and move them around freely. Each Start Node represents a point that a sprite can enter flowchart space.
Flowchart nodes include dialogue boxes, dialogue options, functions, and conditions. Each flowchart node can be linked to another node by clicking the "?" button under it. Conditions ("If" statements) can have an "Else" link by clicking the ":" button. Dialogue boxes can be linked to multiple dialogue options, as well as a single "default" node that runs if no option was selected.
Unlike functions (which can run simultaneously) sprites can only be at one specific point in their entire flowchart space at a time. This makes flowcharts less useful for complex action-based or update operations, but makes them very good at creating extensive dialogue trees or cinematic cutscenes.
Some minor updates as well:
Added tags and tag searching for packages
Added an option under "Run Function" to allow a single sprite to run multiple copies of the same function to run at the same time (generally not recommended, but might be useful in certain circumstances)
Fixed passive textboxes getting deformed when close to the right side of the screen
Post by: Kamani on April 26, 2018, 05:25:57 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 28, 2018, 03:46:23 pm
I added composite operations for graphical objects, colors and flashes. You can pretty much ignore them for the most part, but they can potentially make some nice special effects if you know what you're doing. You can find a guide to what they mean here (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Canvas_API/Tutorial/Compositing).
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 02, 2018, 03:40:33 pm
You can now save a private draft of your world without overwriting the published version. This will make it easier to make edits without messing up visitors. Note that when using the "Explore" option, you will be exploring the public version - the World Editor will open the private draft instead.
I've cleaned up some duplicate credits, and added a search option for assigning credits to media files, making it easier when uploading multiple files by the same artist. When assigning a website to an artist, use their main "personal" website or the place they generally put their work. I've also added a field to the media file itself to link to the original source page.
I'm also planning to add a system to packages that automatically accumulates editors of an object, if that object was copied from a different user's package. The automatic credit reel is close to being ready - the plan is to automatically sort all contributors under their main contribution or contributions (sprite graphics, background graphics, tile graphics, sound, music, object programming, and world design). It will make your world look like a proper game with a whole team of contributors :)
I've organized the event list better, and added a few new options - setting the camera to follow a sprite (you can make an invisible "camera control" sprite if you like) and also a "Shift" option which is basically a teleport but also moves variables related to that sprite - its origin point, jump destinations, and damage text. It won't be used much, but with some clever scripting you can use it to create the illusion of infinitely-scrolling areas.
As an example, I created a new world, the Cursed Forest. It's basically an endless monster hunt where you can only escape by collecting 256 sparks and defeating a boss (rather difficult, I'd suggest getting some healing potions at the Protea shop first, but if you survive it's a great place for grinding sparks). I'll probably use it to showcase more monsters and other random objects as I make them.
I've also added a new package with a Chest and Mimic sprite. Chests can contain a user-selected number of sparks, and if you place objects on top of them in the world editor they will "store" those objects inside them to be released when the player opens the chest. (In reality, they transform all objects on the same tile as themselves into an invisible "contained object" sprite when created, then change them back when you open the chest.) Oh, and also you can choose to make them Mimics that attack the player when opened.
I'm going to make a method of selecting an individual sprite's inventory (right now it only works on classes) which will be nice for both chests and shopkeepers.
Post by: Kamani on May 02, 2018, 04:03:06 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 03, 2018, 03:25:09 pm
Unfortunately this will not automatically apply to objects copied before this system was implemented, so you will need to "claim" existing packaged objects as your own by editing them. Just adding and deleting a letter to the object's name will be enough for the game to consider it "edited" and add your ID to the list of contributors.
The backend of the credits system is pretty much finished; now all I need to do is make a system for ordering and displaying them.
Also I fixed an obscure but possibly serious logic error that was probably the cause of the rare "room deleted for no reason" bug.
Post by: Kamani on May 03, 2018, 04:05:52 pm
Oh, thinking about it, the tiles were pretty special. Although hoptiles won’t receive that... Well, whatever. They weren’t too difficult to make in the long run. Most important thing about them is probably how they taught me to use each loops and the rest of what I learned in making them.
Post by: Imic on May 04, 2018, 03:15:20 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 06, 2018, 04:17:08 pm
I've found out how to build BW into a stand-alone .exe file, and I'm putting together a plan for how I want to monetize it. Are any games out there with a system for paying content creators?
First I'm going to have to make at least one world that is good enough to sell as a game in its own right.
Of course, anyone who makes decent content in the meantime will get it for free.
Post by: Imic on May 07, 2018, 10:47:07 am
I know not all people like ads... At all... But it's a possible idea, ans the best i can come up with on the spot.
Over the next year, once summer comes around, I hope to possibly work on a project in this, since I'm going to have metric tons of free time over the year.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 07, 2018, 11:27:39 am
My original idea was to publish the game for free, and have a premium version which is almost the same except that it would include an API event allowing world builders to communicate with programs running on their own sites. This would allow them to do things like reward players in their world for visiting their site, purchasing items on their site, or pretty much anything. It would even allow them to make multiplayer areas. The problem is that they would have to be a programmer to make use of the feature.
Another possibility is to publish the game for a small price (5-10$) and funnel a percentage of total revenue back toward content creators. That would be the ideal system (people pay to enjoy an endlessly growing game, and get paid for helping to facilitate said endless growth), the issue with that is working out the logistics of such a system and the likelihood of it being exploited. It's hard to make an automatic system to judge the artistic quality of a world.
Publishing it for a small price regardless could also attract more players early on by offering free copies. People don't pay attention to a permanently free game, but they might show interest in a limited-time offer. But I want to have an actual game before I start asking people for money. Every time I sit down to build a proper world I just wind up adding more features to the world builder... ::)
I can just cheat and make a roguelike world. Programming is my specialty, so a roguelike would be the easiest way to make a full-length game.
At any rate, I'm making some little touch-ups, general quality-of-life updates like making buttons look nicer, fixing up some little issues with clicking on stuff, the polish that makes it look more professional. Polish is also one of my weak points, I suppose. Oh, I also fixed up sprite color composite operations for easy and nice-looking palette swaps. I made the default colorization option "hue" which basically colorizes the sprite while looking natural.
Post by: Kamani on May 07, 2018, 01:46:35 pm
Also, I am going to be back to work in 6 days, once I am (finally) done with finals week. Bright side: worst final is tomorrow, so once it is done, it’ll be downhill from there. Also, I think I have the concepts for 3 of the other dungeons in this project, so I’m feeling cheery about that.
Post by: Imic on May 07, 2018, 02:11:22 pm
Post by: Imic on May 08, 2018, 02:46:19 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 08, 2018, 02:58:03 am
Post by: Imic on May 08, 2018, 04:00:18 am
Post by: Kamani on May 09, 2018, 01:35:41 pm
A. Game gets laggy after a while (so many trees on screen at once).
B. The boss has a lot of life, and, since it basically just summons hoards upon hoards of minions, it is exceptionally deadly.
Edit: Note the third:
C. Run around in circles when you fight the boss around the map, since it gets rid of enemies.
Edit: Trying to think of a name for this town (populated near-exclusively by monsters) is killing me. Any suggestions?
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 09, 2018, 05:06:14 pm
I haven't seen much lag in the forest, but my new computer is pretty good. I guess I can tone it down a bit.
The boss (and indeed the whole forest) is kind of a placeholder, it's just a spot to show off the monsters that I'm making. I'm putting together an "Adventure Pack" with a large number of assets all packed together, which will be nice for world builders to make use of.
Trying to think of a name for this town (populated near-exclusively by monsters) is killing me. Any suggestions?
Hmm... What about "Monstrocity"? Haha.
Or perhaps "Lusuria", a play on "Lucaria" (festival of the sacred grove) and "Lusus" (freaks).
Post by: Kamani on May 09, 2018, 05:15:11 pm
Huh, odd. For me it gets as bad as the original laser ray did once there get to be a bunch on screen.
Makes sense. I figured the boss was, since they don’t really seem to fit any of the boss fighting advice you’ve given. That, and they are just kind of lackluster.
I like Lusuria. I’ll go with that. Thanks.
Post by: Imic on May 10, 2018, 10:59:09 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2018, 11:46:47 am
Objects will never interact with objects outside of their layer (unless you write a script for it). Think of a layer as basically a separate "play area". Most rooms only need one real layer for tiles, sprites, and gates. Maybe a background layer and a foreground for stuff that is supposed to appear in front of the player (like the tops of houses) but that's it.
You can create multiple tilesets with the same image to combine tilesets with transparencies and the like. Using sprites for solid objects that don't move is almost always not worth the trouble.
In your case, the "Ground" layer is probably the one you want to keep. You can make a separate tileset using the same graphic as Tileset3 to add the cliffs, window and door. (Place the tileset "on top" in the list to make it appear on top). That's also where you want to put your gates.
For complex tilemaps, the best option is usually to make the graphic tilesets non-interactive, and add an invisible tilemap to handle the collisions. That way you only need to have one tile designated as solid.
I'm wondering how to make this more clear. Maybe I'll make some in-game tutorial areas where characters explain the topography and how the world works.
Post by: Imic on May 10, 2018, 01:20:31 pm
I still don't know how to actually make a starting location, though. As in, how to place the location for the player to spawn in.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 10, 2018, 01:29:19 pm
EDIT: I noticed that I removed the tutorial button by accident. It's back now.
I added a new feature, an error catcher that automatically closes a room in the case of an infinite loop. (Actually, it will trigger if 1 second passes between one frame and the next. It is virtually impossible to write a process that can reliably identify an infinite loop, but FPS dropping below 1 generally means that something is wrong anyway). That handles the problem of trolls putting game-crashing sprites into their world; rather than freezing the whole site it just boots you out of their world. If you are the world's builder, it gives you an error message to help identify the source of the problem and opens the world builder.
EDIT2: Also added some more sound effect options, like playing a sound on the default player interaction and also when using or landing a default melee attack.
Post by: Kamani on May 11, 2018, 09:53:37 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 12, 2018, 12:35:25 pm
So do most people in the worlds speak the same language because the ancients spoke it and spread it around (like doors in the south)? This would make sense, and it might be helpful to know, so...
That makes sense.
I think I'm going to change the rules for blank tiles, instead of making the blank tile in a tilemap have independent properties, layers will simply have a "default" tile property and the blank tile will simply be to delete tiles. This should make things less confusing for new players (having the entire room suddenly change to a pit because you imported a tilemap is kind of weird). It will change the Treasure Dungeon a bit when it goes up, but I think that's the only one (aside from my rooms) that uses the "basic" tilemap (which has the blank tiles as a pit).
I guess it's about time to try fixing up the platforming sections again. Sigh... this is by far the most frustrating part of making this entire game.
Post by: Kamani on May 12, 2018, 12:56:31 pm
I should take Treasure Dungeon offline anyway. It isn’t very interesting, just a first project when I was new(er, since I am still new. Just... less new, I guess?).
Edit: Loading from the World Editor, I got the message (sitting at the top of the editor), saying: Warning: Saving will overwrite your draft! Load from World Editor instead. (I guess I saved as a draft?), but since I loaded from the World Editor, this is rather odd.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 12, 2018, 10:47:29 pm
Post by: Kamani on May 12, 2018, 10:59:24 pm
Edit: College finals are done (well, technically, they were done Friday, but it was the weekend after finals and I was still pretty busy. Still am, but not to the extent that I will have no free time to use this at all anymore)! Also, I think I decided on what most of the dungeons in this project will be (there will be 10 in total, grouped with three per tier in three tiers, and than the final dungeon), so now I can actually start working on this.
Edit: Message doesn't seem to have anything messed up, so it all looks fine.
Edit: I think I should choose new names for Elen and Alend. Those names are basically copied, and even though the characters have absolutely nothing to do with the characters whose names they borrowed, that still feels off.
Edit: Hmm... occurs to me that one of the characters coming up 4 or 5 dungeons from now will have an appearance that I won't be able to find good art for anywhere. Ugh. No real clue what to do about that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 14, 2018, 02:34:01 pm
Does the character you're making require animation, or are they just a static sprite? Drawing a single sprite is a lot easier than a full-motion one.
I think the message issue may be caused by making a draft copy before you make a public one. I'll fix it up in the next update.
I'm making some progress with the sidescrolling areas. The system is a bit weird with regard to what it considers "legal" transitions, but it will be possible to make sidescrolling areas that transition into top-down ones, provided you don't mix the tile types too much.
Post by: Kamani on May 14, 2018, 02:48:13 pm
Animated, sadly. Plus, since I can’t draw really at all, not sure how I’ll handle that. I guess I’ll just see what happens. It’ll probably be months till I reach that point anyways, so not a huge worry. Just something I need to plan in the long run.
Good. That message is just a bit... unnerving.
Cool. Don’t know how much I’ll use of that, but it is cool. Actually, that might work out for me in the planned desert dungeon, and that might be next up or second to next up.
Edit: So what is the default text size? Would be helpful to know.
Edit: Any suggestions for new Elend/Alend names? I'm still utterly terrible at names, and these two are pretty important. Admittedly, I guess nobody knows enough about them to think of anything that relevant. Ugh, I guess I'll just keep working at it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 14, 2018, 05:18:19 pm
Default text size is 16, although it looks a bit different on different browsers. Going to have to fix that. Though in the end it'll be an .exe anyway.
I can come up with names at random, but usually I like to pick names that reference something about the character in question. My first thoughts were Hydragyre (an archaic name for mercury, i.e. quicksilver) and Frans (reference to Kafka, though as I recall now the character in the Metamorphosis was actually named Gregory). (Plus a human with a fantastic name and a monster with a mundane name seemed to fit the concept as I understand it).
Post by: Kamani on May 14, 2018, 06:16:52 pm
Good. Now I know what to set it to when I want people to whisper (12 or 14, probably).
I do like the Kafka reference (The Metamorphosis was always too gloomy for me, what with the dying at the end and all, but I think the concept is pretty neat). I think I will use that one. Hydrargyre might work (possibly shortened to Gyre for daily use since Hydrargyre is long, and hydra is a word?), so I’ll use it. Now I can actually write dialogue again, since I think I have all the important characters who are going to be showing up in this world (or that will be mentioned) done, and I can put a bit less work into minor characters. Thank you for both names.
Edit: Hmm... what to call the item that holds all other items (and is used to go to the hub area of the project)...? Ugh, I really don't like names.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 15, 2018, 12:11:37 pm
Post by: Kamani on May 15, 2018, 12:43:56 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 15, 2018, 03:50:12 pm
Usable items should generally be their own actual item, since partitions won't be selectable from the menu. Unless you want the main item to open up an option box where the options are based on the partition values.
I'm making a trailer video. I'll probably include clips from worlds under construction in it.
Post by: Kamani on May 15, 2018, 06:08:51 pm
Actually, I do plan to make it work with a menu, although, since most usable items won’t trasfer between worlds (and thus won’t be put in the box), there shouldn’t be too much that requires it.
Okay. I’m afraid that I’m not far enough along to have too much interesting (especially because writing the gate keepers’ dialogue took me (and continues to take me, it isn’t quite done) a while. They definitely have a smaller story associated with them, even if it will never be fully explained), but progress continues slowly. Edit: Bright side: Finished that dialogue, for now.
Edit: How big should this town be? It is a small town, but I don't know what size small towns are in games, typically.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 16, 2018, 12:37:35 pm
You can make a town seem bigger than it actually is by splitting it up into different sections.
Protea has a good example of a minimalist town that uses this trick. There are only 5 houses you can actually enter but it feels bigger because there are 4 outdoor areas. (And a few houses you can't enter.)
I'm going to try making a proper boss. Expect a bunch of special effects.
Post by: Kamani on May 16, 2018, 12:54:40 pm
Good to know, although I probably won’t do that here.
Makes sense.
Cool.
Edit: Uh... could you look at Lusuria please? Something odd happened to it. Kind of like the diagonal room glitch again. Completely destroyed the room (utterly), so whatever this is should probably be fixed before it hits a completed room.
Edit: Bright side: Since I wasn't working on Lusuria because of that, I think I finished (assuming no random destruction) the outline for the first dungeon room. I went with a less boxy room design this time round, which I hope will look a little better. Hopefully it won't fail horribly, but this is only my 2nd/3rd (depends on how you count the original version of this) dungeon, so not everything will be perfect.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 17, 2018, 12:40:33 pm
The good news is that it's an easy fix, but I'll have to do it when you aren't logged in.
Alternatively, you can do it yourself: download the world and opening the text file in a text editor. Then search for "Lusuria" (with the quotes), which should bring you to the room data. You can then edit the _size to say "32,32". You can then upload the text file and it should work.
Now, the real confusing thing is what's going on with the tilemap data in the Town Entry room. Seems there's some kind of object duplication bug which is caught in the world editor but remains in the data for some reason. Going to have to fix that too.
Sidescrolling is working fairly well now. Still a handful of bugs but not too significant.
I'm also changing the way that cutscenes work, so that feature might be a unstable for a bit, but it'll be a lot more user-friendly when it's done.
Post by: Kamani on May 17, 2018, 02:38:04 pm
I won’t be logged in for probably an hour, and then I’ll fix it.
Okay. Thanks.
Huh? I didn’t notice anything there last time I was on. Will anything need to be fixed by me?
Great!
Okay, cool.
Edit: Oddly enough, Lusuria WAS 24x32. Then it somehow got changed to 32x32 without updating the tilemap data. The actual room IS 24 across. The stuff beyond that is pretty much extra tiles. I'm not quite sure what caused that, since I don't recall changing it, but I guess maybe I did or something?
Edit: Two questions: A. So what if someone traveled through the void and didn’t believe in the concept of a true self or form? Would they become an acolyte or something else (this may seem like a minor question, but it effects my project a fair amount).
And B. Can I make a modified version of the acolyte art to use for a certain acolyte? It has no credit listed, so I wanted to check with you specifically.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 20, 2018, 12:26:05 pm
Altering the acolyte sprite should be fine.
I changed the way blank tiles work. Blank tiles no longer have their own properties; instead you can define the properties of blank tiles in the layer itself. The default is a regular floor; if you want to make blank tiles a pit you need to specify that in the layer properties. This should be less confusing, mainly because adding a tilemap to a room will not change the way the room works without actually placing any tiles.
Still working on the cutscene system. The basic idea is to put most sprites into "stasis" for the duration of a function, but also allow some sprites to be excluded from the stasis. The main problem is trying to get it to work for both in-world cutscenes and item-activated ones; if two cutscenes are active at once all sprites freeze at once and are unable to proceed. So that needs to be reworked somehow. You can use it if you like, but you might have to go back and change it once the system is done.
Post by: Kamani on May 20, 2018, 02:24:14 pm
Thanks. That should make that work pretty well.
Okay. Good to know.
I’ll avoid using it until then done then. Sounds good, but I’d prefer to avoid needing to change something once I have it done more than need be.
Edit: Harlequin Epicycle's difficult seems very high. Not really sure how to beat it. I can get it to the second phase pretty easy, but with it hitting for 10 damage whenever I get hit, I can only afford 10 hits, and that is a bit tough. Any advice on this?
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 23, 2018, 11:22:56 am
Cutscenes basically create a "stasis rule" for all sprites in the room. There are 5 "levels" of cutscenes, each which includes the previous rules: Combat AI disabled, All AI disabled, all physics disabled (which also disables _update events), physics and death disabled, and all animation disabled.
The sprite that creates the cutscene may have their own "rule", and individual sprites may be given their own unique rules as well using the "Add Cutscene Exception" event. In addition, any "command" event (like walks, dashes, and jumps), as well as flash effects, that are created by the cutscene function, will be able to operate even if the sprite in question has its physics disabled. So you can freeze all objects in a room, but still have the relevant sprites walking around and talking.
You can also exclude a sprite from cutscenes entirely. This is important if you want to make a "trigger" sprite that checks the position of the player in its _update function; otherwise it is possible that the player may use an item that triggers a cutscene, and walks past the trigger sprite while its physics are disabled.
Cutscenes are "stacked", meaning that the rules of the last cutscene started take precedence. If you use an item that triggers a cutscene and then another cutscene activates, the item's cutscene will pause while the new one plays out, then resume afterwards.
Player input is always disabled while a cutscene is playing.
I've added cutscenes to all existing items, since the game resumes too fast otherwise.
Edit: Harlequin Epicycle's difficult seems very high. Not really sure how to beat it. I can get it to the second phase pretty easy, but with it hitting for 10 damage whenever I get hit, I can only afford 10 hits, and that is a bit tough. Any advice on this?
Harlequin Epicycle was designed with a "Dark Souls boss" mentality in mind, which basically means "really hard, BUT not random - all attacks must be predictable and avoidable with skill and practice". All of its attacks are avoidable, and most can be countered as well (you can generally land a few hits while he's using the flame ring by backing off, dodging between the flames to approach, and then escaping before they constrict, and the multi flame shot leaves an opening for one hit between each shot if you can get the rhythm right), but yeah it's tough. Luckily, he's predictable - the trick is to watch the flashes (2 flashes before the flame shot, 1 slow flash before the flame ring). Or just bring a ton of potions. The third phase gets kind of unfair due to the multi-lightning attack which is a bit too random for my tastes and the "teleport into the background" ability which can't be countered, but I'm still fine-tuning it.
The plan is to give you an item that gives you his powers when you win.
Post by: Kamani on May 23, 2018, 12:30:12 pm
On Epicycle: Ah, okay. Makes sense. I'll take another shot at it later. I keep forgetting I can transfer potions around, since my worlds are only set up to work with each other.
Edit: Some dialogue in my flowchart with the dialogue with Rel and Alan (the gate guards) doesn't seem to be working (exclusively when Alan tries to talk). It is currently set up weirdly, as I ran a function with Alan speaking whenever they spoke so I could copy in the version that had worked on the door (but it didn't work), but it didn't work before that change either. Any clue what could be wrong?
Side note: I don't think I am all that good at writing dialogue.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 24, 2018, 11:47:54 am
I'd suggest giving different characters different color text boxes. Makes it easier to judge who is talking and can even convey a bit about their personalities as well.
I'm not the best at dialogue either, but my suggestion would be to do a bit more "showing" and less "telling" - instead of explaining the characters' personalities, have them talk with those personalities. I can give more specific suggestions later.
Post by: Kamani on May 25, 2018, 08:54:54 am
Seems like a good idea. I’ll try it. Thanks.
I just don’t know how to make an actual (conversation? Dialogue? Not sure which is correct) between characters anyway. The showing/telling thing makes sense (same thing you hear about in composing classes, actually), but beyond the gate dialogue (which will show them a bit more if you don’t have an easy method of entry (which is currently impossible), I don’t know really how to make a dialogue that feels natural.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 25, 2018, 09:44:20 am
I've also added a new event to transfer a number of items from the inventory of one object to another. The main reason for this was to make treasure chests. The public chest object has been edited to incorporate this, you can now put whatever items you like in a chest. The chest package is pretty nice now, with chests that can hold items, sparks, other sprites (i.e. monsters in boxes), turn into mimics, and trigger other sprites when opened (i.e. traps).
I'm working on improving the inventory system for transferring items to different worlds. There is a limit to how many items you can acquire from a world, which is based on the same rules that sparks follow in that it is restricted by the time you spend in that world and the total value of the items. Buying items in shops for their default price is "safe", since the value lost is the same as the value gained, but things beyond that can get confusing. I may incorporate a visible "ranking" system to show players their current "value" compared to their limit, giving them a warning if they are gaining too much value, too fast (it is the world builder's responsibility to ensure this doesn't happen, but it isn't possible to restrict them outright so a warning for the player could help). But, I still need to make sure that it isn't possible for a world to simply troll players by taking away their items, and also to ensure that "restricted" items cannot be modified by a world builder that did not create those items.
Oh, I updated the tutorial page by the way (I'm going to gradually turn it into a proper website). It now has a page on text box commands.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 27, 2018, 08:24:44 am
The beetle sprite is now green by default, and the bat has been altered to include a "dead" animation, so you'll probably want to fix this for any bat sprites you have.
I need to find out where the spider sprite comes from. I know I didn't make it, but it's been on my computer for a long time and I need to check that it doesn't come from any licensed source. If I can't find it, I may just replace it with another spider sprite.
Post by: Kamani on May 27, 2018, 12:23:41 pm
Makes sense.
Could you image search (or was it called reverse image search? I forget) it?
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 27, 2018, 01:08:47 pm
Could you image search (or was it called reverse image search? I forget) it?
That's a good idea, I've never actually used it before.
Well, there it is. The site was in Russian, no wonder I couldn't find it. And, of course, it's an RPG Maker page. I'm not sure if the sprites themselves are licensed, sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. RPG Maker has this really...unique...license where any image in their default packs, and any edits based on said images, can only be used in games made by RPG Maker. Which wouldn't bother me so much, if there were not so many of them, and they would be perfect for BW...well, what are you going to do.
Well, I guess I'll just replace it with Redshrike's spider. Oh wow, it's got multicolors and attacking and death animations? Forget that old sprite.
I've got to send Redshrike a message, they are the source for like half of the good graphics in this game.
Post by: Kamani on May 27, 2018, 01:13:24 pm
So that is how the licensing on that works. Never knew. I better check out Game Character Hub’s liscensing again and make sure it isn’t the same kind of thing.
Guess Spids boss mode no longer has unique art. Fits better anyways, I guess.
Ye.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 27, 2018, 02:37:39 pm
Someone named Kiovenn is making some pretty cool stuff, but is not making any public gates. I have no idea who they are. It is a mystery ???
EDIT: I've checked out Game Character Hub. It looks like the base package uses RPG Maker's license, but assets used in the "Second Story" DLC do not have these restrictions.
Post by: Kamani on May 27, 2018, 02:42:01 pm
I believe I saw a sprite set they uploaded earlier? Well, if they are making cool stuff, I look forward to seeing it.
Edit: Ugh, thought I checked it and I was good (In the past. I was going to recheck it, since I know it has parts from RPG Maker, but I was hoping this would not be the case. Not entirely surprised, but still annoying). I had better remove the sprites in question, then. Bleh. Thanks.
Post by: Kamani on May 27, 2018, 08:12:11 pm
Edit: Side Question: I recolored golem stones (which, for some reason, there are two copies of? Wonder how I messed that up), but even though I used the same color set up, only one of the two sets (two sets of two) recolored the way I wanted. I don't know why they did it differently, and I would appreciate knowing why, since I can't figure it out.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 27, 2018, 10:59:01 pm
Not sure what's up with the golem stones - though it looks like recolorings don't show up properly on the sprite preview, it always uses the composite operation of source-atop, but they should still look fine in game. It looks like you have both a packaged copy and a non-packaged copy of most items; this is probably unnecessary unless you want the versions in the world to be different from the public ones.
If you're looking for a quick character creator, you can use the LPC character creator tool. It doesn't really match up with the player sprite's size and proportions though. Maybe I should make a base character model and let other artists modify it as they will.
Post by: Kamani on May 27, 2018, 11:04:31 pm
Huh, okay. I was talking about how there seem to be two in the package, as I do have a separate copy in the world because I want them to have some additional enemy death count stuff for my world, so I know what those are about.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2018, 11:30:58 am
There's an issue I've been thinking about for a while - how to balance items in such a way to discourage hoarding. The problem is that hoarding a ton of potions or spells will make certain worlds too easy, and when anybody can make their own custom items (which will only work in certain worlds) inventories will likely fill up quick.
I've thought of an interesting potential solution: Making a half-life parameter for items. As in, like radioactive decay. While it is possible to store up as many items as you want, they will gradually decrease over time (as in, over the course of several days) if you keep them in your inventory - even while you are not playing. And the more you store at once, the faster they will tend to disappear.
Post by: Kamani on May 28, 2018, 11:37:07 am
I’d prefer that items don’t decay, since losing certain plot items would be... problematic? With like healing items, it would work, but if you set stuff up right, you could probably get a ton of sparks and then just buy them all at once. Transferable items just might cause those kind of problems.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2018, 12:00:11 pm
I don't mind too much if a player wants to spend all of their sparks on a bunch of items for one battle - that's their choice, and if you want to prevent trivializing your challenge this way, you can just not include those items in your world. The main issue is a standard issue for RPGs - powerful items never wind up getting used, "because what if I'll need it later?" - only even more so, since 1. not all worlds use the same items, so it's possibly to wind up with an inventory full of stuff that you'll probably never use, and 2. there's no real "final boss" to save all your cool stuff for. But if items decay over time, it encourages players to use them as often as they buy them, not just hoard them for later.
Post by: Kamani on May 28, 2018, 12:54:17 pm
Makes sense.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 29, 2018, 05:02:43 pm
Also, if you select the sprite info tool during gameplay you can click and drag sprites around in-game, including yourself. (Obviously this only works in your own worlds). I might add other "god mode" options later to make debugging easier.
Also, sprite rotation (setting turn speed to a value other than 0 or -1) works now. Might add some other features to support Asteroids-type shmups.
Post by: Kamani on May 29, 2018, 05:15:32 pm
Edit: So is there a reason that gates aren't always the same and change whenever the player heads out? My project is focusing primarily around travelers, so these kind of questions are relevant.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 30, 2018, 03:41:10 am
Spoiler: MAJOR plot spoilers ahead (click to show/hide)
But non-insane people understanding the true nature of their world should be rare, so others may come up with different explanations. Some might say that the Void is outside of the normal flow of time, or that it allows people to see the future, or that it just makes people crazy, or that it is a realm of chaos. Others might believe that the universe is a dream and that since dreams are simply ideas time is subjective to those who travel between them. Aside from the few who know the truth, it's really up to the interpretation of the characters.
(Gates create permanent links between worlds - within one playthrough anyway - if both have "allow entrance", "allow exit", and "world exit" boxes checked. The first two are selected by default, but the third is not. Generally public entrances should have both selected, but I wanted there to be an option to separate them - some exits should not be public entrances, like the end of a dungeon, but would be perfectly logical to be able to re-enter one the player has finished with it. Hmm, maybe public entrances with "allow exit" checked should automatically operate as world exits? Is there any valid reason for a player to want a public entrance that can be re-entered, but does not link back to the place the player came from, even if the place the player came from allows re-entry? Hm, got to think about that.)
Post by: Kamani on May 30, 2018, 09:14:03 am
Spoiler: MAJOR plot spoilers response (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 31, 2018, 02:04:23 am
So long as it's well-hidden in your world, I don't mind if you get in on it as well.
Post by: Kamani on May 31, 2018, 06:26:53 am
Edit: Looked at how you did it using quote. Question retracted (also, sorry. I was thinking about spoilersing it until I realized I had no clue how).
Edit: Made a goofy color changing slime because why not? Took a fair amount of space in the update function, but maybe I'll find a use for that. Randomly shifts colors pretty quickly (_color._(r/g/b)+3*_rand), reversing once it gets to 255 and unreversing once it gets to 0. I guess I could use it for something, since it looks kind of neat, although it still needs some fine tuning.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 01, 2018, 12:45:06 am
Post by: Kamani on June 01, 2018, 07:45:12 am
Post by: Kamani on June 02, 2018, 11:53:29 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 03, 2018, 12:44:03 am
I'm probably going to change the default acolyte sprite to make them a bit more...distinguished. Probably going to give them robes, and something with a color so "unusual" ones can be easily made distinctive.
I'm also thinking about text box colors. I'm looking over a bunch of RPGs and trying to discern a pattern between those that use white on black or black on white as their default, and I've found a very interesting pattern... It seems that the text box color is very often tied to the overall "tone" of the game, with casual or kid-friendly games (Pokemon, Starview Valley, Mario) tending to have light colored backgrounds, and those with more serious themes (Zelda, Final Fantasy, Undertale) tend to prefer darker colored backgrounds. It's a very noticeable trend once you know to look for it.
Post by: Kamani on June 03, 2018, 01:21:22 am
Will their faces still be plain grey? Otherwise, I’ll have to think of a different plot point (it’ll make sense when it comes up), which stinks, but c’est la vie.
Huh, never noticed that. Interesting. I’ll have to watch for that. I don’t actually remember what colors my text boxes are, since I’ve been using the default, but I suppose I’ll have to think about that (if only to choose something completely thematically off.
By the way, will you be continuing Chromatic Spirits again sometime? I was just wondering, since it has been silent for like a month, and I had enjoyed it. I suppose it takes a lot of work to maintain something with that many people (I sure couldn’t), especially on top of a big project like BoundWorlds, so it makes sense if the answer is no, I’d just prefer to know.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 03, 2018, 02:20:00 am
As for Chromatic Spirits, it'll probably continue at some point when I'm less busy. I still have a whole lot of plot planned out (multiple possible plots depending on player choices actually), but it's a lot of effort to write. See my avatar quote.
Post by: Kamani on June 03, 2018, 11:05:39 am
Okay. Thank you for the answer.
Post by: Kamani on June 04, 2018, 12:20:55 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 04, 2018, 10:26:53 am
Hello, {@._title}!
Text only becomes 0 if you try to apply it to a numeric variable, like stats.
Post by: Kamani on June 04, 2018, 12:41:14 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 05, 2018, 04:18:16 pm
I've also uploaded a trailer video! Could probably be better, but whatever, it's just to hopefully gain a bit of attention.
Post by: Kamani on June 05, 2018, 04:49:31 pm
I just took a look at the trailer, and it was pretty cool. Although, what was the map that was visible during the "and labyrinths to challenge the Avatars"? It looked pretty nice, and I wasn't familiar with it. Also, since I saw colored text used in said trailer for Alan and Rel and it looked good, I decided to switch to using colored text for characters (which also helps differentiate between non-character text (stuff like "you received x" or "the door opens"), which has white text in all instances). Thanks for the (idea I guess would be the phrase here? Not entirely certain).
Edit: Check the Charasproject link by the way. It is broken (apparently it is charas-project.net, and the one on the Media Resources tab has no hyphen).
Edit: For some reason, the opacity on Textbox Styles text color is treated as 0 if the use text color option is checked and cannot be changed. Because of this, using the text color setting in the Text Box menu doesn't work, since using it makes your text not show up.
Edit: Could Flowcharts be added to items? This might be relevant for more complicated ones, so...
Post by: Eschar on June 05, 2018, 06:44:32 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 05, 2018, 11:50:26 pm
Quote from: Kamani link=topic=137474.msg7779634#msg7779634
Although, what was the map that was visible during the "and labyrinths to challenge the Avatars"? It looked pretty nice, and I wasn't familiar with it.
That was by Kiovenn. It isn't publicly accessible, but it was too cool to not include :)
So... no spoilers please, but is there (or will there be) a reason for the Harlequin Epicycle to not destroy the world?
There will be. I'm a big fan of games that offer multiple solutions to problems (the combat/diplomacy/stealth trifecta is my favorite) so I'm going to try and include a non-violent solution to everything at some point.
Post by: Kamani on June 06, 2018, 12:00:14 am
Ah, okay. Thanks. Hope they release some stuff. It seems like there is some cool stuff from them.Quote from: Kamani link=topic=137474.msg7779634#msg7779634Although, what was the map that was visible during the "and labyrinths to challenge the Avatars"? It looked pretty nice, and I wasn't familiar with it.
That was by Kiovenn. It isn't publicly accessible, but it was too cool to not include :)
Just spent about 10 minutes trying to figure out why this item's Memory Partition wasn't working. Then I realized I didn't add the @. before it. Oops. Well... at least it was an easy fix?
I threw on some edits in my last post, and since two were error reports, I am just making sure they got noticed. If you had had the tab open before I added them, they could easily have been missed, so I wanted to make sure.
Edit: Randomly got the something went wrong Oh Snap chrome page while editing. Thankfully, I randomly save pretty often, but... still annoying, and it could cause more trouble. It didn't really seem to be caused by anything, I had just saved, left, was backing out to the top I think, and then it randomly crashed. Sorry that I can't provide any more details, but I have no clue why this happened.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 06, 2018, 01:53:13 am
I've seen that bug before. It seems to be related to Chrome simply running out of memory, and may be unavoidable in some more complex worlds depending on one's computer hardware limits (it happened a lot more on my old computer).
This is one of the reasons that I am planning on converting BoundWorlds into a downloadable app; the app version doesn't seem to have this problem. Until then, just make sure to save often.
Post by: Kamani on June 06, 2018, 01:55:19 am
I had been editing for a while, so that would make sense. I’ll make sure to save often. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 06, 2018, 05:33:17 am
Post by: Kamani on June 06, 2018, 05:36:07 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 06, 2018, 10:33:04 am
By the way, you can change the name that appears over a dialogue box by changing the sprite's {_title}.
The next big update will be data structures, I think - basically the ability to create abstract objects that do nothing but store variables, and also to create and manipulate lists. This won't add much for basic things, but it will greatly expand the possibilities for more complex functions, like procedural generation or storing large amounts of data without creating a bunch of actual sprites to do it. It will also be essential for API functions.
Post by: Kamani on June 06, 2018, 12:55:13 pm
I never thought of that for some reason. I guess I can stop placing invisible targets for a title change then. Thanks
Cool. Seems useful. Although I can’t remember what an API is and what it is used for. I know I’ve seen it before, so that’s annoying.
Post by: Kamani on June 07, 2018, 10:27:36 pm
Edit: Working on the inside of a house, no idea what to use for interior walls that fit with the style of Hyptosis tiles (ironically, the Hyptosis ones don't really fit with the otherwise more bright tiles). Any suggestions? I searched around and couldn't find anything just by searching interior, but I'll try again later, and maybe I'll have better luck then.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 08, 2018, 12:56:41 am
As for the game itself running slowly, I'll have to check - it's possible that something in the code changed to be less efficient than before. My computer is pretty fast, so I don't see all of the issues, but I'd like to keep BW running at a solid 60 frames for even mediocre computers. I wonder if there's a way to simulate a slower computer using a faster one?
I uploaded a bunch of interior tiles recently, and tagged them with "indoor". Not sure if they go perfectly with Hyptosis, but you can check them out. If it's a color issue, you can try recoloring the tilesets (making the color black or white and adding a small amount of opacity can make the colors less "bright").
Post by: Kamani on June 08, 2018, 01:00:23 am
Okay. My computer isn’t super great, but it is pretty okay.
I saw those. My problem is actually that I didn’t see any walls. The tiles otherwise seemed perfect, but rooms don’t really work without walls. I also could have missed them foolishly, but that is life.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 08, 2018, 05:17:46 am
I figured out a way to simulate a slower computer, by changing the maximum CPU usage in power settings. Turns out the problem was indeed one of the changes I made recently, which makes it possible for sprites to render above the main layer, which is used to make manipulating sprites hidden by foreground objects easier. It had a very inefficient system for handling this, so I improved on it. It should run much faster now.
Post by: Kamani on June 08, 2018, 10:53:24 am
Okay. Thanks. Glad it should be running faster (now maybe I can finish the Epicycles battle).
Edit: Item issue with potions: For some reason, using one of the full heal potions costs me two.
Edit: Worlds are sometimes opening with the tiles not visible (just objects) and everything running super slowly before the tiles load in and everything goes back to normal. This should probably not be happening after loading?
Side note: Harlequin Epicycle is running better, but is still a bit slow. Not sure if it is just me or a general issue.
Edit on my note: Running a bit unreliable. Sometimes faster, sometimes slower. Odd.
Edit: The first time I buy a full heal potion at Protea's store, I get nothing. I only get a potion the second time I buy (and I still lose the money). Wow, I am losing like 250 sparks because of all the weird issues I keep running into. Not my lucky day. Well, c'est la vie.
Edit: Hey, actually managed to beat the Epicycle. Took 3 sets of potions (see the double cost thing) and the Sealer Sword (with associated vaguely creepyish messages). Well, got my Flame of the Void Mage. Sweet. Now I can actually work on my project once I get some time, instead of trying to see what happens when the Epicycle looses. Well, I can start on Monday, since I don't have to work or anything. Or Sunday, if I don't end up busy.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 10, 2018, 01:08:28 pm
Odd about the tiles...the whole point of loading rooms beforehand was to stop that from happening. Going to have to go over that again. And maybe see if I can streamline the process as well. Right now the world loads all global objects when first entering a world, whether they are needed for the first room or not, which makes the loading take a lot longer than it should. That can probably be improved on, though given the complicated nature of how objects can create other objects it can be rather hard to determine automatically exactly which objects need to be loaded for a room to function.
Potions do have the (still somewhat experimental) gradual decay going on. On average, a potion should last for 7 days. The exact mechanism used to calculate this is a bit complicated and is actually based on radioactive decay formulas. Some of it might not be working right.
There's also the fact that sometimes it can be a bit hard to understand what's supposed to be happening due to the rather esoteric rules the system operates under when calculating item quantities while traveling from world to world. Mostly this is related to ways of preventing world builders from just giving out a ton of items for free. I intend to put some kind of meter allowing the player to see whether they are "overburdened". That's not quite the right word. Maybe "dimensionally stable" would make more sense. All of these rules only apply to items that have prices though, so plot items (which should generally be free) won't run into this issue.
The Sealer Sword is probably going to have a heavy plot associated with it. It's actually taken straight from a story I wrote when I was younger. And yes, it is evil...you probably guessed that already though. :)
Post by: Kamani on June 10, 2018, 01:50:49 pm
Makes sense.
That makes sense (and I believe I had one lost that way), although I don’t know why that would affect shopping or use of potions.
Makes sense.
Yeah, red text involving destruction or killing related phrases has like a 99.9% correlation with being evil. Based on the name, I’d guess something malevolent and probably pretty powerful is sealed in it (possibly, based on the feed me style demands, one that needs to be used to get free? Something like that would be my current guess). Definitely not a Nightblood style sword.
Edit: Taking another look at interior walls: Not fully present in any other the indoor tiles (besides the stone walls in the lowres indoor tiles). In the LPC House Tiles for examples, there are no bottom of the room walls. Oddly, I found it difficult to find a good one on OpenGameArt (although I am bad at finding anything). I found a good looking one, but it was an RPG Maker set up one (https://opengameart.org/content/lpc-modified-base-tiles. Inside_A4), and those don't really work all that well for non-RPG Maker (it said it was modified for RPG Maker, but I was unable to find the original), so I am still stuck for now (this didn't come up with, say, the library, because every single wall is a bookshelf, thus you don't need a standard backwall). I guess I'll work on some character dialogue and take another shot at it later.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 10, 2018, 11:41:01 pm
Well, I made the Mana World tilesets public (I hadn't realized they weren't, since they were added to the system before the credits system was online.) Those are the tilesets used in Protea, so they have walls.
Post by: Kamani on June 11, 2018, 12:04:03 am
Cool. I’m not sure how well they’ll fit with my world’s aesthetic (because I don’t remember the walls well and I am not currently editing), but if they do, great! Thanks.
Edit: Eh, I've had no luck finding anything, so this is close enough for now. Not quite what I was looking for, but I don't believe I'll find that right now, so this will do. Thanks.
Edit: The Mana tileset doesn't actually have proper sidewalls either. Shoot. Well, the way you managed it was good enough for now. Also, check the solidity of the walls in the shop. The forth tile from the bottom on the left isn't solid (although it would make a pretty nice secret area. It also has strange solidity set beyond that, but since I can't interact with anything in it, I am assuming it is still a missed spot, not a secret).
Edit: What rules are the Mana tilesets under? I did a rotation on them to modify them for my own use, so I need to know if that is allowed under its rules.
Edit: Plus, I might make some other small changes on them to make them more sidewall-y later, if allowed.
Edit: Got distracted from my project to work on chess themed monsters. Why? Not really sure, but hey, they might come in handy.
Edit: Is there a way to use absolute values? I tried taking the absolute value of 32 using |-32| for a test variable, but it just made 1. This would be useful for some more complicated stuff, so it would be nice.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 11, 2018, 03:52:32 am
The "secret area" of the shop is where I like to test new items, actually. Guess I forgot to close it off last time :)
There is no current single-line method for making absolute values, though there should be. Honestly I should probably add a whole bunch of math functions to the scripting system. It's pretty basic right now, and doesn't even do order of operations properly.
Post by: Kamani on June 11, 2018, 12:49:07 pm
Ah, okay. Makes sense.
Guess I’ll just have to use < 0 tests for now. But yeah, improvements for the math functions would be nice.
Edit: I think I know how I’m going to redo the Shadowmage fight. Going to focus more on the shadow aspect than just a flat projectile mage. Should be a bit more interesting.
Edit: Based on my brief chess-themed distraction, there is now a rook style monster labeled Charger in my monsters package. Not of great interest, but it was neat enough in design that I decided to add it in. Might be interesting to make some similar projectiles for a boss. Worth considering.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2018, 01:43:30 am
Post by: Kamani on June 12, 2018, 01:47:48 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2018, 02:41:57 pm
I've started working on more advanced ai that will allow objects to have more complex behaviors than mindlessly attacking objects on different teams. They will be able to make allies or enemies (if their team is set to 0), run away from threats, and remember things that have been done to them in the past. Right now the only effect is that neutral units like chickens will become hostile if you attack them. There will be more custom personality traits soon.
There's a "threat rating" parameter, which will affect how other sprites perceive each other and evaluate their chances in battle. What would be a good rating for the player, do you think? It's all going to be relative, but I want something that feels intuitive. Maybe 100, and a "typical" threat rating would be about the same as the sprite's max HP?
EDIT: Checking out Lusuria. It's pretty cool - love the branching dialogue and the characterization! (I loled at the idea of a mushroom monster who is sensitive about his age, and the clumsy dragon bartender :) )
A few minor quibbles (with the understanding that it's not done, of course):
Maybe put some of the longer dialogue into the dialogue trees instead of running it automatically when the player enters the room? Some players want to read everything, but others will want to just get on with it.
I think you may be overusing the "one talkative character, one quiet character" dynamic a tiny bit; even though there's some differences between them it still feels a little repetitive. (Unless it's meant to be an intentional theme... like the idea that monsters tend to find partners that represent the opposite qualities.)
Also, you can spice up long text with colored text, which can be nice when referring to important items. I've added a section for text options in the tutorial.
I made a package called "Check Desk", which you might find useful for any time you want to talk to a character on the opposite side of a desk.
The layering issue with the inn can be fixed by making the front desk a sprite instead of tiles.
Post by: Kamani on June 12, 2018, 05:30:32 pm
Cool. Should be useful.
Yeah, 100 would make sense.
Thanks. I think those two will be the only auto-acting dialogues (Remy is very gregarious, so it makes sense for them), and the last of the one talkative, one quiet, although I could change it to make it less prevalent if it is overused (I suspect I’ll change it when it comes to Gyre and Fraz already, so that should make a difference).
Colored text would look nice in some areas, so how do I add colored text on certain words in BoundWorlds?
On the layering issue: Thank you. I couldn’t figure out anything for that. I’ll take a look at the package next time I can get back to it.
Edit: Spent several minutes trying to figure out why something wasn't working. Forgot that I don't start with the quest item in my inventory. Well... that was a bit of a waste. Need to think of a good way to add that to my inventory for this kind of testing.
Edit: Do cutscenes stop jump actions? I have the cup set to jump, but ever since I created a cutscene there, it just sits there, freezing the entire cutscene up (even when I tried it with a cutscene exception). How can I avoid this, since apparently jumps won't work.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 13, 2018, 10:15:14 am
EDIT: Okay, figured out the issue. Really weird stuff, but...essentially every time a textbox closed, the flowchart was being "passed" to the speaker, causing...several problems. Also, apparently there's a problem with passing cutscenes to the next event in a flowchart, got to fix that up too.
Post by: Kamani on June 13, 2018, 10:34:25 am
Also, apparently, I should make a bird enemy. Having a large bird fly at your head while you hold a broom up in hopes it attacks it, not you, is terrifying. Good thing to remember for whatever dungeon is next, I suppose.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 13, 2018, 11:29:24 am
A bird enemy would make a nice touch. I was going to make a mission relating to a witch forcing you to fulfill a quest or else you get attacked by geese, but I suspect the joke may be too subtle. Were you attacked by birds lately? :)
Post by: Kamani on June 13, 2018, 11:46:09 am
I don’t get the joke, so... makes me think of (I think it was Baba Yaga?) that witch with a duck (or maybe another bird) footed house though. Admittedly, humor is something I am quite bad at, so... And yeah, a peregrine falcon attacked me when I was helping band them. Not so fun, all in all. That bird is apparently unusually vicious for the area.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 13, 2018, 01:55:42 pm
I've also fixed a bug where walk commands would fail if the sprite arrived at the destination point exactly.
Post by: Kamani on June 13, 2018, 01:58:15 pm
Okay. Good. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 14, 2018, 11:41:57 am
Post by: Kamani on June 14, 2018, 02:51:10 pm
I seem to be having an issue with flowcharts. I have dialogue that is appearing 4 times (even though I deleted it and replaced it). It seems that it isn't going away, even when I delete it, and then, when I added a new one (which I tried several times, since it worked on the first two dialogue options), a new one showed up. This is present in the Will dialogue, with "Okay." showing up four times in the first dialogue instead of one. Rather annoying.
Edit: Remy's check dialogue also seems to do the same.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 14, 2018, 04:13:08 pm
Post by: Kamani on June 14, 2018, 04:15:40 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 14, 2018, 04:52:10 pm
Post by: Kamani on June 14, 2018, 04:54:38 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 14, 2018, 04:55:44 pm
Post by: Kamani on June 14, 2018, 04:56:46 pm
Edit: Just fixed it. Thanks.
Edit:
A. Now I am double wondering what Kiovenn is working on (they put up some new public image files).
B. Lusuria is getting pretty close to done for now (only two and a half characters I presently know will live in town are left, although I suspect I will end up adding some more (not counting the one who won't be available until the dungeon is done). It feels a quite sparse to me right now), so yay. Don't think it is going to turn out as well as it could, but I'm new at building a town, so that's okay. I should get it done in two-three days, and then the dungeon should go pretty fast (after all, I already have the planning done this time). I'm feeling a bit more motivated than usual, so I want to try to have it done by the end of June or so (I started in December, so it would be nice to get on to the next dungeon. That, and I feel like I should have gotten it finished already had I been putting in a reasonable amount of effort). If I manage that, then that means I can actually get this project going. I mean, 10 dungeons won't be fast by any stretch of the imagination, but it shouldn't take 10 years for me to do so.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 17, 2018, 07:46:19 am
Kiovenn is making an area called "Magma Forge" and another called "quarry" which both sound pretty dwarfy and thus makes me suspect they are probably someone on the Bay12 forums, but I can't be certain. Whoever they are, it's a pretty neat and visually complex area.
Post by: Kamani on June 17, 2018, 10:26:01 am
Yeah, sounds pretty dwarfy. From the one bit of it in the trailer. I’m not surprised that it is visually complex. The brief glimpse looked the part.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 17, 2018, 01:51:08 pm
I'm also adding some extra functions to sounds. You can alter the playback speed of music using {_room._music._speed}.
Post by: Kamani on June 17, 2018, 10:44:26 pm
That reminds me. I need to actually start putting music into Lusuria and the dungeon.
I also need to see if there are any good doors for the style of Hyptosis Tiles. Back to OpenGameArt for me.
Edit: Forgot that you had added some tilesets with doors. Delayed thanks.
Edit: Having really, really slow running again. The loading is fine, but the actual running is awful. Not sure why, but it makes it pretty impossible to do anything.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 18, 2018, 12:38:10 am
I re-uploaded it and it seems to be fine now. Don't know what went wrong.
Post by: Kamani on June 18, 2018, 12:39:41 am
Post by: Kamani on June 19, 2018, 01:02:48 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 19, 2018, 01:23:32 am
Post by: Kamani on June 19, 2018, 01:27:03 am
Side Note: I am up to like 30 times of running into an issue (caused by me), spending like 6 minutes trying to figure it out, and then realizing I forgot to prefix something with an @. Woops.
Edit: The town of Lusuria is up! Hopefully, I solved all the various issues and got everything in order, but I can't be 100% sure. Now I just have to finish the two sections of the dungeon and both bosses, which I have to redo.
Edit: Oh, right. Please tell me if something inevitably goes wrong. Hopefully, any mistakes won't be too major, but I never know.
Edit: By the way, Vaults of Imperia is slightly broken, ever since the empty tiles/tileset changes. Might want to check that, since I believe the original creator is gone.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 19, 2018, 10:43:26 am
I take it Arc and Thaum are the [spoiler] characters? That works pretty well, actually. I like the idea of mages being slightly associated with understanding the nature of their reality (thereby allowing them to bend it). A little bit of void exposure creates mages, too much creates monsters.
Only one bug I can see; Wren and Jeremy don't save properly, probably forgot to prefix the item with @.
Well, there are other cutscene-related bugs, but those are my problem.
I'm moving general lore to the library instead of the Hall of Lore. Every bookshelf can have 3 books on it, so there's a lot of space to fill up :)
EDIT: Also, perhaps you can add a Link Tag or two to the main entrance. That way random gates can link to it logically (example: it can be turned into a town in another player's overworld.)
Post by: Kamani on June 19, 2018, 02:17:31 pm
Well, Arc and Thaum definitely know, and they might make certain hints, but they won’t actually tell you. The character who does do the [spoiler] is an acolyte who takes the acolyte idea and goes their own way with it. I do like the mages knowing thing though. It seems to fit.
Although... making Arc and Thaum be the [spoiler] characters would give them something to do and it would fit well with who they are... Huh, I’ll have to consider how to do this.
Ugh, thought I had fixed that. Must of either missed another issue with it, or just have lost the fix in a crash. I’ll take a look as soon as I can.
Cutscene systems must be difficult to make I guess. There seems to be a lot of stuff that can go wrong.
Makes sense.
Oops! Forgot to do that. Thanks.
Edit: Fixed the Wren Jeremy glitch (There were TWO instances of missed @ signs, and I only noticed one), and added tags (town, monster, and kamani (I didn't make the kamani tag to my knowledge, but I figured since it was there, I probably should) all seemed to fit pretty well). In addition, I fixed some 1 opacity text backgrounds that should have been .75, and I fixed the doors that stood out slightly from their houses, thus making their collision odd. To my knowledge, that is all that was currently wrong with it, so tell me if I missed anything.
Also, I found another cutscene issue. If you are rolling from a dive when a cutscene activates, you get stuck in the roll and don't walk or anything until the cutscene ends. I suppose that should probably cancel on cutscene activation or something.
Edit: Platformer Dungeon by Whisperling is also glitched due to the changes in how tilesets work. If you fall in a pit, you just keep falling forever. I don't know if Whisperling is present as of lately, but if so, you may want to fix this, Whisperling.
Post by: Whisperling on June 19, 2018, 11:16:02 pm
Edit: Platformer Dungeon by Whisperling is also glitched due to the changes in how tilesets work. If you fall in a pit, you just keep falling forever. I don't know if Whisperling is present as of lately, but if so, you may want to fix this, Whisperling.
My current activity level is a solid "meh," but I've been poking around a bit.
Pretty sure the pits should be fixed now. Just give me a heads-up if you notice them getting broken again.
Post by: Kamani on June 19, 2018, 11:18:16 pm
Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 20, 2018, 01:25:45 pm
I've also fixed an issue with Each loops inside Each loops. They should work as intended now.
Found another bug in Lusuria, seems that Jeremy only sets _room.jer if you haven't met them before, causing issues if you return later.
Post by: Kamani on June 20, 2018, 01:27:46 pm
On Jeremy: Oops. Must have put the set _room.jer inside the conditional. Wonder why I messed up the most on that set of dialogues though.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 20, 2018, 04:30:25 pm
_frozen and _stasis are now variables. _frozen prevents all voluntary movement and abilities, but physics continues to work. _stasis freezes all physics. Mainly useful for status effects.
_distance_to and _direction_to are added as inline functions. They return the distance or direction to either a sprite or a point. You can set {_face = _direction_to(sprite)} to make a sprite face another sprite.
Timing on the player's attack hitboxes have been adjusted a bit to feel more "natural".
Post by: Kamani on June 20, 2018, 07:10:15 pm
I fixed the Jeremy name bug (since I got some time to sit down). Hope that should be the last issue with that dialogue in particular.
Edit: I can finally get back to my project, so that should start to continue again (my computer charger got messed up). Might be a few days behind, but beyond that, should be getting back to it.
Edit: It would be appreciable if stores could work off of trading/item currencies (I looked at the trading button, but it didn't seem to do anything, so I am guessing it is not finished?). The shop menu works better than just having a bunch of dialogue options and checks, so it would be nice. Not a huge important thing, but it would be nice.
Edit: Ugh, just realized I lost my returning fireballs. Those were a pain to make. Guess I'll just have to remake them. Wish them and the Spids boss hadn't been lost. Shame I didn't package Spidsboss and Spidsguards I suppose. C'est la vie I guess.
Edit: Was working on some boss skills for Shadowmage. Forgot to set the line skill cooldown. That was interesting.
Edit: Based on my brief messup above, my current final phase is an rapid rush of the shadow line attacks. But since the battle only lasts for 75 hp, it isn't too nasty. Might change it. Shadowmage has three phases (opposed to Spids's 2), but they each only have a few attacks (the final has only 1, the other two have 3 or 4) and low life, so it isn't all that tough. Decided to try something different for this, although I don't know how well it will work.
Post by: Kamani on June 22, 2018, 10:40:55 pm
- The full crashes are getting really annoying. I was starting testing some more boss skills, and crash. Thankfully, I
save out of habit every like 10 seconds, but this if you don't do so, you could really run into problems.
- Loop issue I think? Look at the function labeled firebreath on the object shadowmagedragon. Even though the loop
has a wait 2 frames, it fires all 20 flames at once. If I move the set timer to timer+1 to the second spot, it instead
never stops shooting flames (but does wait properly). I don't know WHY, but it seems to skip the second unless the
second is the fire command.
Edit: I had this temporarily working with some workaround, but a crash scrapped that. Still wasn't quite on either.
Not sure why.
- My mushghast monster's projectile spore attack suddenly stopped working. The jump is not functioning, so the
spore just sits on the ground. Any clue what changes could have been made that would affect this?
- If you use a URL, you can use files that aren't set to public. Probably doesn't matter, since what are you going to
actually DO with it, but still figured it was worth mentioning. This also apparently includes files that were deleted.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2018, 01:20:59 pm
Stores that use items as currency are planned. Haven't gotten around to it yet.
The URL working with non-public files is...well, semi-intentional at least. You can actually use it to link to external image files from other websites, though doing so sort of bypasses the credits system (though I guess I can add any sites linked directly in the credits as well), and some sites have policies against this. I might have to think it over a bit.
I'm going to see if I can work out exactly what causes the crashes. They do seem to have increased recently.
Sorry about all the bugs, I'll get them worked out as soon as possible.
That said, the Shadow Mage looks neat so far. I couldn't figure out how you even made the beam attacks at first, pretty clever solution there.
EDIT: Oh, as for the returning fireballs - they were way more complicated than they had to be. You only need a single class; just fire them as projectiles in different relative directions (like what you did with the enemy that shoots 3 fireballs), then after a timer, set them to jump (slowly, and with zero height) back to their origin point. Actually, I should probably add a function for applying a directional force on an object, but it's not necessary for them.
In general, if you find yourself making multiple very similar copies of a class, you're probably overcomplicating things. Well, either that, or I need to add something to remove the necessity to do so.
Post by: Kamani on June 23, 2018, 01:35:39 pm
Okay. I just realized it would be nicer than using the golem venders from the first version of the dungeon.
Makes sense. Nearly impossible to exploit usefully anyways, since you would need to know the URL for the file you wanted, but the external site policy thing could be an issue.
K. I’ll tell you if I notice any patterns with them (besides often occurring when switching between editing/not-editing and rooms).
No worries. I run into bugs in everything for some reason, and you fix them at a pretty fast rate, so it is pretty good, all in all.
Thanks. I wanted to do something interesting with them, so I figured this would work better than a teleporty mage who shoots fireballs and clones everything. Plus, I thought going with a shadow themed boss would be more interesting than a mage boss for the idea of Shadowmage.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2018, 03:26:25 pm
I've also changed something in the room loading code that was eating up a lot of memory, which should hopefully make crashes less frequent, though there's still the intrinsic issue with running a program that can load arbitrarily large amounts of data in Chrome. I wonder if other browsers have the same issue?
Post by: Kamani on June 23, 2018, 03:54:21 pm
Well, making it less common will still help a lot. It was getting painfully common. I can try other browsers if it might help.
Edit: Does jumping cancel skills or something? In the 3rd Shadowmage phase (shadowmageabstract), I made it jump to a random location on damage receive, but it keeps canceling the line skills when that happens, and I'd prefer that doesn't happen.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2018, 05:08:18 pm
You can get around this by setting _x and _y directly instead of using a jump event, but I'd advise against making it a habit for the above reasons. Techniques that are more loosely "choreographed" can work through the update function anyway, with the technique itself just being a one-frame trigger.
Maybe I'll make an option to specifically not cancel techniques, for circumstances where it is planned out like this.
For the line skills, wouldn't it be simpler if the line warning object just changed into the real line by itself?
Post by: Kamani on June 23, 2018, 05:13:35 pm
Edit: Yup, that fixed it.
Still not sure what is wrong with Sorceryflames, but apparently, it is spending too much time in loops (I switched it to wait 0 frames, and got the too long in loop message). So I guess it isn't finding something to teleport to fast enough? Not sure why it isn't.
Ugh, I think my old dungeon room design worked better. I guess I'll need to keep trying at it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2018, 10:52:19 pm
Post by: Kamani on June 23, 2018, 10:54:34 pm
Post by: Kamani on June 24, 2018, 02:55:35 am
I had made some of these fixes before (like the pyreskull explosion one), but I guess that must have been on the world-only copy rather than on the packaged copy. Annoying, but a good lesson to upload that kind of stuff immediately I suppose. Think I have most of the enemy issues fixed, so I guess back to room building (ugh, I wish I still had the old layouts for those. Some of those really turned out better the first time. I suppose I used up the idea already. I guess I'll need to just keep working at it.
For some reason, I can't stop thinking about what a hard mode version of Shadowmage. In the first two phases, they'd occasionally make clones with low life (but light instead of dark. Not a confusing trick with identicals). In the third, two full fledged boss level enemies would appear (but the rate of laser attacks would remain unchanged. It would be handled by a third, invisible enemy), and fireball shooting minions would be summoned. Lastly, a fourth phase would be added in which a modified version of each phase would attack at once (modified to prevent the lasers from becoming totally overwhelming), but with a shared life total. Hopefully now that I wrote that down I can stop thinking about it.
Edit: I think I might rename Shadowmage to Umbra. It’s shorter and it sounds more natural.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2018, 04:27:17 am
I've noticed you tend to keep both a packaged and local copy of the same enemies. That's usually unnecessary - as above with the reversing fireballs, there's almost always a better solution than making multiple copies of very similar objects (the exception being when they have different graphics - and even that can be worked around with the frame shift parameters). If you work with the packaged objects directly, they upload automatically when you publish, so it makes maintaining them easier. What are you using the extra copies for?
Umbra sounds cool. Maybe "Shadow Mage" could be the boss subtitle. I should publish the boss subtitle object.
Post by: Kamani on June 24, 2018, 10:12:19 am
My local copies (when done) will also have some extra variables that count the number of enemies defeated for things like making sure all enemies were defeated.
I’ll change it then. Shadow Mage would make a nice subtitle. And yeah, packaging the boss subtitle object would be nice. I’d guess I could recreate it with background opacity 0 mid-centered textbox with white text and a size change (don’t know if that is how you did that. I just figure that would look about the same), but that would be a pain.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2018, 11:28:13 am
Code: [Select]
[b][align=center][size=36][speed=0.1]Boss Name[/speed][/][speed=0.02]
[/speed][speed=0]Boss Subtitle[/][/][/]
As for checking if all enemies were defeated, you can do something like this:
Code: [Select]
Set hasenemy = 0
Each _room._sprites
If #._team = 2
Set hasenemy = 1
End
End
If hasenemy = 0
(do stuff)
End
EDIT: Some other things -
The update_after function runs after damage is taken during a frame, but before calculating the damage numbers to be shown and whether or not the sprite should die, so you can adjust HP there to change the actual damage taken. It's ideal for making enemies that respond to damage in unusual ways, like the golems.
Post by: Kamani on June 24, 2018, 11:46:41 am
... that didn’t occur to me at all. Oops. Well, guess I’ll just use the packaged instead.
Edit: All changes that I had to make for the packaged monsters (pyreskull, most visibly (and they use actual status effects now too), although also the sorcery flames and golems also had bugs fixed) are uploaded. I'll use _update_after later, but in the Golem case, their healthbars shouldn't be visible anyways, I just apparently never changed that for... some reason? So it shouldn't matter too much in their case.
Edit: A note on the basic attack: Enemies who are walking backwards will easily dodge it because it aims for the edge. Probably not all that great for most situations, since it makes enemies who don't like to be near to the player and have a vaguely okay speed very hard to hit.
Also, I think I might nerf golem stones a bit. I think I am going to make the second tier of golem stone carry over the damage from the first (even though they will still gain some bonus life). This is because, in testing, the golem seems to be a bit more dangerous than I really intended.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2018, 04:19:16 am
Post by: Kamani on June 25, 2018, 12:15:17 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2018, 12:40:02 pm
I've made a few fixes to inventory memory (inventory was randomly not loading sometimes) and also added cookie-based autologin, finally. Still perfecting the movement-in-item-cutscene system.
Hmm, it might be nice to make a better solution for repetitive loops inside a technique. Right now the standard workaround is to put loop-based functions in the update function or create a separate function for the technique to call, even when they should be regarded as part of a technique.
Post by: Kamani on June 25, 2018, 01:05:34 pm
Inventory fix is good. Also, auto login is very appreciated. Thanks.
I guess that would be nice. I’ve gotten so used to just using functions that I never even considered it.
Post by: Kamani on June 25, 2018, 10:23:16 pm
Also would be useful if you could... deactivate a tilemap, I suppose, and make both it's appearance and its tiles skip. This would mean I would have to set 0 tilechangers, which would be nice for this, and it also seems like something that would be useful in a lot of situations.
Edit: Is there a way to make flash effects using the flash effect function stay at peak strength? I want to use one to darken (and later undarken, but only after a boss) a room, but I want the room to stay dark (until that is undone). Since _flashlevel is no longer in use, I am not aware of how this is doable.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2018, 11:09:06 pm
The tilemap suggestions seem reasonable. I'll add those.
Post by: Kamani on June 25, 2018, 11:13:05 pm
Okay. Thanks.
Edit: Now clearly I just have to make an entire dungeon on one floor with way too many tilesets (not really, although that would be interesting).
Post by: Kamani on June 26, 2018, 12:46:27 am
Edit: Could you make the player sprite accessible for use in things? I'd like to use them for a bit in the Umbra fight (or rather the cutscene after).
Also, the preliminary outlines for the first two dungeon rooms (might edit them) and the Umbra bossfight is down. The second dungeon room requires some more work (once the tileset things are in), as does the dialogue for Umbra (which is waiting on the above comment), but this is starting to move along. Might be behind a few days beyond my target, but I have had to deal with a fair number of glitches, so it evens out I suppose. Not sure how long remaking Spids's boss mode will take, but it hopefully shouldn't be too bad, since I know most of the skills and pitfalls I'll be dealing with.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 26, 2018, 04:16:19 am
I'll fix up the other bugs as soon as I can.
Edit: Go To issue is fixed.
Post by: Kamani on June 26, 2018, 12:35:36 pm
Okay. Thanks.
Good. The Go To issue was pretty irritating. Hope fixing it wasn’t too bad.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 26, 2018, 03:13:39 pm
Anyway, I added some new properties to tilemaps - you can now adjust their _opacity, _visible, and _enabled properties. (Disabling also makes them invisible. I guess I can give them another option to make them non-colliding but visible, though I don't think that would generally be necessary). You can select a tilemap in _layer._tilemaps (not _layer._tilesets; that refers to the source of the image, while tilemaps are the actual tiles themselves. A bit confusing, I suppose.)
I also made a thing where you can select an individual object in an array by using their ID. For example, {_layer._tilemaps.tilemapname._enabled = 0}. This also works with sprites, and any other array of objects, so you don't need to set a global variable anymore or loop through the entire list to target an individual sprite (provided there is only one sprite of that class in the room); you can just use {_room._sprites.spritename}. If multiple objects have the same ID, only the first is chosen. This is usually not allowed in programming languages, but I figured it would be convenient.
EDIT: It seems that tilemaps don't work very well with colorization; very high amounts of slowdown occur. I'll have to fix that up.
Post by: Kamani on June 26, 2018, 03:25:03 pm
Great! Now I should be able to finish up Droom2. Thanks.
Cool. That should come in handy.
Edit: These crashes are torment. I had just finished adding in the bunch of set tile commands I needed to make the walls work, went to test them, and then crash.
Oh, but there is an issue with your suggestion for checking for enemies with _room._sprites rather than counting up variables (quoted below, since you might not know to what I refer). To prevent lag, all of the enemies have active ranges, and, if they are outside them, the counter will ignore them since they aren't actually loaded. I suspect I will just have to use variables that increase with enemy deaths and either add that to the package or just use non-package copies. C'est la vie, I suppose (shame the suggestion wouldn't work. It was a good suggestion, but with a room over 1700 in x and 1300 in y, I'll have no luck with it).
As for checking if all enemies were defeated, you can do something like this:Code: [Select]Set hasenemy = 0
Each _room._sprites
If #._team = 2
Set hasenemy = 1
End
End
If hasenemy = 0
(do stuff)
End
Edit: Just realized that I no longer have the Spids's Guard monster because I never included it with the package. Guess I'll have to make another enemy for the dungeon. Might do it differently this time though, as I feel like Spids's Guard was pretty so-so.
Beyond that, outline for Droom3 is done, so the room shouldn't take long once I make the new enemy, but making a new enemy takes an inconsistent amount of time, so that might set me back.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 27, 2018, 05:50:22 am
Edit: Looks to be the case. Are you sure you're not confusing the sprites called "inactive" (the inactive puzzle tiles) with actual disabled sprites?
Actually, it seems the issue in the second room is something more complicated. I'm going to see if I can figure it out.
Edit2: Okay, I figured it out - you put _x instead of #._x, and also hasenemyl twice. The issue was hard to check properly because _room variables weren't resetting when opening the world builder in the same room, making testing objects that used room variables problematic. So I've fixed that.
As for the crashes, I can try uploading the PC app for download on the site. The only issue is, there's no auto-update feature so you'd have to download it after every update for it to work properly. I'll see about how to make an automatic update feature.
Post by: Kamani on June 27, 2018, 12:06:05 pm
On the crashes and PC app: that would be greatly appreciated, even if I had to keep downloading. Crashes have made progressing a bit of a pain.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 27, 2018, 01:05:03 pm
I haven't seen any crashes using it - my understanding is that the crashes are simply what happens when Chrome runs out of memory. But save regularly anyway, because I'm not 100% sure.
Post by: Kamani on June 27, 2018, 01:06:30 pm
Okay. I save pretty frequently, but I’ll tell you if I get any crashes anyways.
Edit: I searched the About page and couldn't find the app. Am I just missing the obvious (in which case where is it?) or is it not currently present?
Edit: You can cross a 5 length 5 height gap like the one after the pillar in Droom3 if you start at the top and roll (kind of like the rolling thing back in Treasure Dungeon). Is this intentional? If it is, I'll make some edits, but I didn't think it was intentional, so...
Edit: Actually, it only seems possible to cross the pillar bit from the opposite side. Odd.
Edit: Uh, are angles measured in radians? I thought that got changed to degrees, but I checked, and it seems to be radians. Degrees are a bit more accessible, so that might make more sense, but it isn't too bad either way.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 28, 2018, 01:01:13 am
It's best if you only add drop tiles at points where you are expected to drop down or jump up, or as entries to sidescrolling areas, and block off everything else. Drop tiles mixed with floor tiles still have a number of issues. You aren't supposed to be able to move off a ledge to the side, except in sidescrolling mode.
Angles are supposed to be measured in degrees, but it's possible that some variables aren't working right (internally the code uses radians, but it's supposed to convert to and from degrees whenever a variable is modified). Where are you seeing radians?
Post by: Kamani on June 28, 2018, 01:07:36 am
Fair enough. Problem to note, in that case. You can move between top-down and drop tiles if you are on the top of the top tile.
The ShockerSpider (in the unnamed room (room17 or something like that)) has a skill that shoots projectiles at an angle, and it was working in radians a few minutes ago. I tested it with multiples of 60, and when that wasn’t the right angle, I tested it with radian numbers and it worked as I would expect radians to do (except I forgot to double it. Oops).
Edit: Okay, I looked twice (and even used Ctrl-F) for this download tab, and I have had no luck at all. The only tabs I see at the top are Home, About, and Tutorial, and under them, all I see is text (excepting tutorial, which has some tutorials, none of which are download related). Any clue on why I could be not seeing this?
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 28, 2018, 03:01:51 am
Anyway, I made a link for the download on the front post here.
I'll check out the radians issue.
Post by: Kamani on June 28, 2018, 03:05:56 am
Thanks, although I guess since the first suggestion worked, I don't really need it. Should still come in handy for others, since it is in a bit more obvious of a place now.
Thanks.
Edit: What font does BoundWorlds normally use/how can I change the font the downloadable version uses? It is using a different font than the online version (I guess maybe I don't have the in-use font on my laptop), and I prefer the standard font to the less readable version my laptop is using?
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 28, 2018, 03:43:48 am
Post by: Kamani on June 28, 2018, 03:44:30 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 28, 2018, 07:52:50 am
I'm also fiddling with knockback and "push" values to make them a little more consistent, instead of sending the target flying sometimes and sometimes doing nothing.
Post by: Kamani on June 28, 2018, 10:59:21 am
Good.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 28, 2018, 05:26:39 pm
I found a method of getting better crash data, hopefully that could give me some more leada.
Post by: Kamani on June 28, 2018, 05:36:00 pm
Good luck. Hope it gets found pretty fast.
Post by: Kamani on June 29, 2018, 12:14:05 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 29, 2018, 01:12:51 am
Post by: Kamani on June 29, 2018, 01:17:12 am
Edit: Just put the new monster into the package. Named ShockerSpider. It has pretty high damage (highest attack does 20, others are 10 and 11), but all attacks are pretty forecasted, so it isn't too tough to dodge most attacks. Tell me what you think, if you have the time. It seemed to go pretty well, but I can't judge it all that accurately.
Edit: I also just uploaded an alternate package version of the monster package where all of the monsters drop a 15 point heal (primarily for my own use, but I made it public, since the 15 point heal makes certain dungeon design plans work way better). Because of how it works, I SHOULD only have to edit one to edit both, but I haven't actually tested that yet, so I'll have to see how well that goes.
Edit: I just finished the dungeon room 3, so now all that's left is the forth, the final boss, and the post-dungeon Lusuria (people will have moved around, but, bright side, only one room will really even slightly, so no room redesigns). I'm not going to have enough time to manage it in my goal to do it before July, but I shouldn't take too much longer. If nothing significantly slows me down unexpectedly, I should be done in less than a week. Seeing as the original took about 4 months to do this (and that didn't even have Lusuria), this is going pretty well (about half of the time this time around).
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 29, 2018, 04:38:31 am
Hmm, now you've made me consider the use of fire, ice, and lightning spiders. I'm all for the Standard Fantasy Elements Trinity, and there are enough color variations...
Minor graphical quibble, you might want to give enemies a fade timer, right now they kind of just vanish. My usual standard is 60 frames and flickering for normal enemies, or 30 frames without flickering for certain ghost-like enemies, but whatever feels right. You might also want to adjust (or remove) some shadows, like for the warning effects and the spore cloud (you can add a looping flash effect on the spore cloud in its _create function to make it easier to see).
If you edit a packaged object that is included in another package, the original package will be edited as well. So if you load KamaniMonsters without KamaniMonstersHeal, they will try to create a heal item, and will fail since the item doesn't exist. This is a bit messy code-wise, but it does technically work, so eh.
You may or may not have noticed that objects no longer target you if there is a wall in the way. There's a "Wall Vision" option in the AI Behaviors -> Targeting Vision tab if you want to remove this.
Post by: Kamani on June 29, 2018, 01:53:06 pm
Would be interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if I end up making a fire one for the desert dungeon I have planned.
Just went and added fade timers. In addition, I also removed the shadows. What kind of looping flash effect would make the spore cloud easier to see, by the way?
I actually designed it so that it would work that way. I originally copied the effect directly on to KamaniMonsters, actually. I knew it would be a bit messy, but what works, works.
I just went through and set Wall Vision to enemies who I felt would be able to (Sorcery Flame, Pyreskull, Lightning Spider, and the Spheres), and made it so that each individual instance can be set individually (primarily so that people using it can set it to how they need it).
Edit: Starting to hate the words Oh Snap, since they appear every crash. Also, there is no sling this time around. Instead, you can buy armor for a 25% damage resist. Buying every item reduces your reward to 30% (edit: miscalc, 15%), but will make things far easier, since you'll be dealing 50% extra, taking 25% less, and have two full heals.
Edit: Because I have spent SO much time doing this tile puzzle while editing, I think I might make it a 4x4 instead. So that people can actually solve it in less than a millennia. Because this is really getting boring, and I just spent like 15 minutes on it and still didn't solve it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 30, 2018, 01:27:25 pm
I actually added the wall vision thing because there are a number of points where enemies shooting through walls makes them feel a bit unfair...But whatever you think works.
I think I mentioned this before, but yeah I really don't like the tile puzzle - difficulty aside, it feels out of place in an otherwise action-oriented dungeon. Adding a way to skip it, or just removing it entirely (maybe putting it in a later puzzle-oriented challenge) would be my suggestions.
To make the sporeclouds more visible, give them a Flash event in their _create function, set the flash timers to a small value (like 5) and check the "loop" option; this will make the cloud blink continuously.
An idea - to make the town and the dungeon feel more "integrated", maybe some of the NPCs can give hints about the dungeon? Tips to beat particular enemies, the most recommended items, or outright hidden areas. Stuff like that.
I'm working on figuring out how to fix the crashes. The crash logger that I added on doesn't seem to help, so I'm going to have to do this the old-fashioned way. Unpredictable crashes that can't be reliably reproduced are the worst bugs to fix...
Post by: Kamani on June 30, 2018, 05:30:27 pm
Yeah, that is why I made it individually setable. Need to adjust how it is set in some places, but I think it works pretty well in most places.
That makes sense. I like mixing it up a bit, but I didn’t realize the puzzle would take a long amount of time on average. I’ll definitely make it easier (and skippable), and I might remove it.
Makes sense. I’ll do that. I was testing, and they can be pretty tough to see as is, so that’ll really help.
I’ll do that for the Lusurians who would reasonable have gone into the dungeon (Wren, Jeremy, Evrel, and Leaal, who have all been adventurers). The others wouldn’t really have been in there for actually doing the Trial, so they know nothing.
Yeesh. Stinks that the logger didn’t work. Good luck figuring it out.
Edit: Just made the tile puzzle DRASTICALLY easier. As in it takes like 20 seconds (and hitting every tile solves it too). It should probably be doable for people now, and it shouldn't break up the flow so much. I think I'll leave it in as is, for now.
Edit: Just finished up all of the death rooms, persistent rooms (and the unloading that makes that work), and dungeon rooms 2 and secret2, which it turns out I entirely forgot to finish. Woops. I don't know whether making Spids's boss version will take one day or two, since they were a pretty complicated boss technique-wise, but that is where I'll be starting tomorrow (well, today, I guess, looking at the time).
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 01, 2018, 11:52:55 am
A few minor things:
The flame at the bottom of the jump is a bit of a nasty trick - the player doesn't really have any time to prepare.
Is there any limit to how much the golems can multiply? I get the concept, but sometimes an inopportune tactical retreat can make a situation much worse. Maybe the spawn could be temporary, or unable to grow to full size, but let the golems regenerate if left alone for too long.
The randomness of the flame's teleport makes them annoying to deal with sometimes. Having them teleport back to their origin point after a few seconds would work well.
The mushrooms can be kited away from their origin point. This isn't always a bad thing, though - it's actually a handy trick in some areas where they are teamed up with another enemy.
Hey, I just got an idea - leaving comments at positions in a world (like in Super Mario Maker). Would be quite useful for making suggestions to world builders. Maybe with different options, like who is allowed to leave comments and whether they are visible only to the creator or also to other players.
I'm making some progress with the crashes! The Chrome tools has a useful function for monitoring memory consumption. Press F12, then the Performance tab, then record a few seconds and examine the results. The green line (nodes) seems to be the important bit - it basically says how many objects the program is trying to hold in its memory at once. When that green line reaches a maximum threshold, it crashes. The key is to try and figure out when it is storing more data than it is supposed to; that indicates a memory leak (the program isn't deleting unused data.)
I've already found and fixed one major memory leak: turns out that not only were damage numbers not being deleted properly, they each held a reference to the sprite that created them, which means that any sprite that was damaged at any time was also being stored in memory indefinitely. Not surprisingly, that was consuming a ton of memory over time. That's fixed, though I'm pretty sure it's not the only memory leak, since there have been crashes occurring even when damage was not involved. Figuring out the exact cause is tricky, but at least now I have something to work with.
Post by: Kamani on July 01, 2018, 12:16:27 pm
Which jump was the flame at the bottom of? I’ll take a look once I am at a computer again.
Oh. Hadn’t considered that. I’ll make the golem regenerate (although I might need to increase their active radius for this to work) after 10 or so seconds off screen, and doing so will destroy all clones they made. That sound like it would work?
Oh, right, I forgot to readd that after the lost progress (another world-copy problem). I made them do that so they couldn’t get into unreachable rooms, but it should help for this too.
Yup. Especially when the other enemy is a golem (which is basically how I handle golem encounters). Don’t plan on changing this one as is because of that.
Good. I’m glad there’s something that can help make solving the crash issue less of a problem. Seems like it would be a real pain without that.
Yeah, I’ve had crashes just editing rooms and the like, but that helps to explain why I was crashing so often during boss fight testing on Umbra. I had figured it was just loading the room a bunch, but this makes far more sense.
Edit: Hmm... The golem thing might be a bit tricky. It wouldn't be bad, but I am not entirely sure how to handle the fact that you might have more than one. I would need to do something with summons I guess. Perhaps I could make golems spawn an invisible golem control? That might work. I'll test it out when I can get back to my computer.
Also, I noticed the world comments idea, and that would be real useful.
Edit: Is there a good way to destroy all summons? If I can do that, I should be able to manage it, but if that won't work, I'll have to try something else.
Also, any suggestions for handling this that might work better? I feel like there might be a better solution I am just not thinking of.
Edit: Hmm... I think the Spids skills were flamestorm (two versions), charge, fire breath, flame spiral, and fire trap (the one that made 4 delayed exploders). I think that was everything in phase one. Hope I didn't forget anything, but I guess I'll see once I am done if it feels right.
Also, if I ever decide to do a hardmode version of bosses, Spids phases 1 and 2 will be primarily the same, but Umbra will join in as an invincible attacker, and there will be an additional phase between them in which Spids becomes a giant spider made of blue flames with the smaller Spids spider floating in the middle. In that phase, Spids would be immune to damage (and attacking them would inflict damage), but all of the attacks would sap their own life (since they would literally be firing the blue flames that make up their form. Think it would be pretty interesting.
Edit: Was just testing Spids skills. Yeah, that went... badly... 52 blue flames on screen based on a quick count. I REALLY wish I had thought to keep Spids preserved somewhere. I don't remember how I handled the firestorm and flame spiral skills (the skills beside that were pretty easy, although flames might be moving a bit slower/faster) when it comes to timing and speed. Edit: Admittedly, with the damage so low (and my laptop so SLOW. Lag has been getting worse for some reason) I still did fine, but still.
Edit: This is fixed(ish).
Spids phase one is done(again, ish). All of the skill and the big attack timer have been added, but it may need a lot of balancing. Now I just need to add phase two (for which I don't really remember the skills, so I might need to redo that from the start. I think there was still a spiral flame and firestorm and I know there was a rush, but that is all I can remember. I think I'll need to continue this later (ugh, I should have used my time better so I wasn't behind schedule).
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 02, 2018, 02:47:41 am
1. Don't allow the subgolems to "mature", just have them remain small golems.
2. Allow the subgolems to mature, but remove the spawning ability from the golem clones. This would allow them to multiply to an extent, but not indefinitely.
3. Give the golem a timer that is reset every time it is hit. If it goes too long without being hit, destroy all spawns and restore its HP.
4. This is a bit trickier, but probably what I would do if making a similar enemy: don't have the stones mature at all, instead give the golem an ability that makes it stand still and makes one of its stones jump toward it (you can loop through the sprite list to find a suitable stone, if one exists, using the code below). The stone is destroyed and the golem heals 1 HP. Basically it slowly puts itself back together if you leave it alone for too long.
I also made an example of an enemy type that can multiply over time from any individual, but the total number in a given "group" is restricted. It's in the Amanita package, you can check it out if you want an idea of how this kind of thing can work.
The usual way to destroy all spawns is:
Code: [Select]
Each _room._sprites
If #._spawner = _this
Set #._hp to 0
End
End
Note this only works if the spawns were created as the original object's spawns (or projectiles). Otherwise you can do something similar by setting a custom variable to the spawn when it is created. Also make sure that any transformations the spawns make are actual transformations; if you do the destroy/create thing then the _spawner will not transfer.
Any particular reason why you want Spids to get smaller in its second phase? Nothing wrong with that, but most game bosses tend to do the opposite.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on July 02, 2018, 01:06:57 pm
Oh, didn’t know about _spawner. I should have checked for that.
I thought about setting them to variables, but then, if there are more than one, that falls. Bright side: using method four, I have to worry less about proper transformations.
The 2nd phase has way less life (and less damaging big attacks), but they move faster (and passive move, unlike phase one, who stays still except when charging). The idea is that it is that Spids is actually running low on energy, so they are using more finesse than brute force. If you can keep near to Spids in the second phase, they shouldn’t last too long, and they don’t hit as hard, but they are harder to hit and dodge.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Okay, I think Spids boss is done(ish). I don't really feel like it is good as the original, but I took like 2 weeks on the original, and 2 and a bit days on this, so... I'd try to improve it, but I can't figure out what it is that doesn't seem right. If you play it, please tell me what is up with it. For now, I am going to work on post-dungeon Lusuria.
Edit: Oh, and Spids's dialogue. Have to do that first.
Edit: Bad glitch (halted progress entirely until fixed). Double number entries don't seem to be working (like those in the jump effect or in image scale). I click on it, and then both of them disappear and can't seem to be changed.
Edit: After some brief testing, it appears that they CAN be changed, but it requires a workaround and should still be fixed.
Edit: After some more brief testing, I can only get one digit with the workarounds. Ugh.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 03, 2018, 12:06:49 am
Post by: Kamani on July 03, 2018, 12:12:35 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 03, 2018, 12:31:16 am
Post by: Kamani on July 03, 2018, 12:31:48 am
Edit: I guess I'll need to test how long it takes to run through the dungeon to see how long it takes so I can set up the value of tokens.
Edit: Well, instead of doing that, I made the changes to golem. Tell me what you think, if you have the time. The golemstones heal them after 10 seconds for 1.5 mana, and as long as one golemstone is present, the golem cannot die (well, you could probably reduce their health to 0, but that would take a LONG time).
That, and I figure out what jump you meant when you were talking about the flame at the bottom of the jump. Yeah, that was bad. I moved it.
Edit: Took me about 10 minutes. I'll make it 10 sparks per token, I guess. If people take longer, I can adjust. I might have gone faster than normal, since I know it well, but I also don't know how much most people will spend. I bought a sword, and it made it feel excessively easy, but I know the enemies quite well by now. Edit: I guess I'll use 15 sparks instead, thinking about it.
Edit: Well, I finished Spids and did a rough time test. Now I just have to do the post-dungeon town (instead of using a bunch of tests in everything, there is just an entirely different set of rooms that look identical excepting objects. That should be faster). This should be done tomorrow or two days at the latest (I am pretty busy this month, so I might be slowed down a tiny bit).
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 03, 2018, 09:51:31 am
The easiest way to make multiple versions of a room with very different sprite arrangements is to put in both sets of sprites and have one of them destroy itself in its _create function depending on whether or not a variable is set. (You can set a global variable in a world without using items by targeting _world.) For characters though, I'd just use one sprite and put everything in a single flowchart with different start points.
There are other things you can do if you want to get really fancy (I made a random encounter system that uses a special "variant" helper sprite to make a room with 10 different variations) but for only 2 variations this should be easy.
Edit: I went through the dungeon - nicely done! Took me quite a number of tries to beat, despite having full equipment, but maybe I'm just not as good of a gamer :P Just a few things:
Flames still need to be able to jump back. The last one actually jumped out of range in the last room (where you have to kill all the enemies), and since the room is persistent it made the dungeon unwinnable (without cheating).
Spid's intro - nice! Should probably be facing down when done though.
Sometimes when the second phase starts, if Spids is partially off the edge they get pushed entirely off. Maybe they can jump to the center of the room when transforming? A quote would be nice as well, to give a moment to prepare for the second phase.
Something seems wrong with the ending cutscene. It works if you put "continue immediately" on the Walk command that makes Spids face downwards, though this does appear to be another cutscene bug that I need to fix. (By the way, you can set _face to make an object face in a particular direction. You can even {Set _face to _direction_to(sprite or point)} to make it face a particular object.)
The new golems are...interesting. Might want to add a hint about how to beat them somewhere in the town (some things that may seem obvious when you've made them could be less clear to a new player.) Golems along with sorcery flames are a tough combo to deal with.
Don't rush yourself! It's a nicely-done world and the characterizations lend a lot to its charm (maybe some multi-character sidequests could go in later?). I'm probably going to showcase it in my next video once it's done.
Now, back to sorting out these memory leaks. It's a little bit like pruning dead branches off a tangled bush that's stuck to a ceiling, except the bush is moving, the dead branches are still growing, and the branches extend through time as well as space.
Post by: Kamani on July 03, 2018, 12:35:30 pm
I’ll do that.
Makes sense.
Huge secret to winning: spring jump. You can use it to avoid a lot of the tough projectiles. But based on that, I might have to increase the number of sparks per token. It’s tough for me to judge difficulty since I know the entire dungeon very well.
Oops! Sorry. I also realized I have to make spore clouds from sporeghasts more visible.
I tried to make it do so, but I messed up and forgot to fix it. I’ll do that.
Oh, yeesh, missed that in testing. Thanks. I’ll do so.
Huh, weird. I didn’t have time to test it yesterday, but I’ll fix that all today. I had similar problems in the Remy cutscene, but I worked around them, and I thought they got fixed. I’ll just use _face instead (I didn’t think about it because I had been using the move commands that way before I learned about _face).
Not entirely sure if interesting is a good thing, but I’ll make sure to put a hint in town.
Ugh, I’ll make sure not to rush. I just wanted to have this done by my original target and I failed that. But, it’s better to make a good world than have it done fast. Multi-character sidequests would be interesting to do later. I’ll be publishing (if that is the word. I’m blanking on it) it without them for now, but it would be a good thing to do. Now I just have to figure out what kind of sidequests would work.
Yeesh. Good luck.
Also, thanks for all the feedback. It is highly appreciated.
Edit: Fixes done:
Flames jump back after 10 seconds of not being hit.
All Spids fixes are made (turning, falling, and cutscene fixed and added (this included making a 13 line if statement that destroyed every single boss skill object. I figured the longest function part I used in Lusuria would be dialogue. I guess that showed me)).
So lorewise, what are sparks? Stores use them, even in places that don't know about gates, so are they the Ancient's currency (like the language thing?) or something?
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 04, 2018, 04:37:53 am
It is also the stuff that floats around game worlds for no clear reason, and which is, for even less clear reasons, usually yellow. Coins, rings, bananas... All are different manifestations of the same thing.
They may appear differently in different worlds and to different people. Sparks transform into whatever people see as the main form of value in that world. So stores aren't actually trading sparks, they may be trading coins or whatever.
The role of the Travelers is to find these sparks and return them to their source, from which they can create new worlds.
I think most of the memory leaks are cleaned up. At least, I'm hoping things should be less prone to crashing.
I'm going to redo knockback physics to make them feel more natural. I don't think any of your objects receive knockback, so it probably won't change anything significant.
Post by: Kamani on July 04, 2018, 10:44:09 am
On crashing: I didn’t crash at all during my last edit session, so I think it is probably pretty good. Thank you.
On knockback physics: Okay. I disabled them on my enemies to prevent skill cancel, so yeah, won’t effect them much, but neat.
Edit: Something that would improve flowchart convenience: when you are adding in a piece (startpoint, dialogue, function, etc.), it would be helpful if it moved to the top left corner of where you are rather than the top left corner. When you are editing something on the opposite end of the flowchart, it can be really quite inconvenient. Not something that is in any way required, it would just be handy.
Edit: I guess I am now 1/5 done with post dungeon dialogues (and that's only counting with counting Thaum and Arc, who barely change at all). Forgot how long these take to write. Plus I didn't really get anything done yesterday at all, so this'll probably take a while. But I am going to make sure I don't rush on this and just keep getting it done, so it'll be out pretty soon.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 06, 2018, 05:06:36 am
Something that would improve flowchart convenience: when you are adding in a piece (startpoint, dialogue, function, etc.), it would be helpful if it moved to the top left corner of where you are rather than the top left corner. When you are editing something on the opposite end of the flowchart, it can be really quite inconvenient. Not something that is in any way required, it would just be handy.
Oh right, I kept meaning to do that.
Updated to add new nodes under the current selected one.
By the way, not sure if you figured this out already but to rearrange dialogue options you can position them in the flowchart space. Options placed higher up will appear first in the option list.
As far as knockback is concerned, I've finally figured out where I was going wrong - I've been trying to make knockback realistic. But realistic physics in games, counterintuitively, feels more awkward and is overall less fun than simpler, easily controlled mechanics (unless the whole point of the game is abusing the physics engine, like Just Cause or Goat Simulator). Sort of like the uncanny valley for physics.
I'm going to do a study of how different games handle knockback and try and make something that is more easily controlled from both a world builder and a player perspective.
Edit: I added an option to change the size of the graphics in a tileset. The room will still use 32x32 tiles, so if you use for example a 16x16 tileset the graphics will be stretched to fit. This is mainly because a huge number of free tilesets are 16x16; they will be a bit pixellated but you can use them if you want to.
Post by: Kamani on July 06, 2018, 12:37:12 pm
Thanks.
Yeah, just figured that out a few days back. Didn’t realize it earlier, so things won’t be quite in order if they are older than that, but newer things are usually in the right order.
Ah, okay. Makes sense.
Okay. Hope it goes well.
Okay. Makes sense.
Edit: That inescapable moment when you end up making a dialogue with two groups of people in it, and you may know any combination of them, so you have to write four different intro dialogues before starting the actual dialogue. Both frustrating and interesting.
Edit: Problem with the nodes thing for flowcharts. It doesn't work if you are scrolled past the screen. It goes to where it would be if the screen was not scrolled around.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 07, 2018, 03:12:18 pm
Edit: That inescapable moment when you end up making a dialogue with two groups of people in it, and you may know any combination of them, so you have to write four different intro dialogues before starting the actual dialogue. Both frustrating and interesting.
Such is the price of authenticity and detail - which is why most games don't include it. But it does make your world feel more "alive" when characters react and remember your choices.
Speaking of which, if you enter the farm after the dungeon without having visited before, the cutscene starts trying to play out. This is because, if you run a Destroy event but don't select "Instantly", the object is not actually destroyed until the end of the frame. (This allows you to run some final actions after the object is destroyed, and also prevents inconsistent results when destroying an object during a collision by ensuring that the order of events doesn't matter. Maybe a bit counter-intuitive though... maybe I should change it.)
Edit: Problem with the nodes thing for flowcharts. It doesn't work if you are scrolled past the screen. It goes to where it would be if the screen was not scrolled around.
Fixed.
Post by: Kamani on July 08, 2018, 01:15:22 am
Oops, I'll fix that. On that, perhaps setting it to be instantly with an option to wait until end of frame would work?
Thanks. Glad that is fixed.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 08, 2018, 04:09:53 pm
I'm still not 100% satisfied with the result, but I've added these properties to several sprites, including the gremlins, floating eyes, spiders and bats. I'll improve on it more. I'd also like to get "defensive" hitboxes working as well, basically allowing hitboxes to clash with and/or block attacks.
Post by: Kamani on July 09, 2018, 12:38:29 am
Ugh, I made all of my flowcharts neat and nicely packed. Unfortunately, now I am running through some of them, setting them up so if you meet them in the inn before getting their standard text and then get their standard text, you won't miss important dialogue, but people won't be responding to you with "who are you?" when you've met them. Lesson on careful creation for me: Leave whitespace in flowcharts if you might need to add content/actually plan out content ahead of time so that I don't end up adding things in weird corners and connecting across large distances.
Edit: Problematic glitch (surprised nobody's bumped into this): If you accidentally drag a text box into an area which you can't reach, you cannot reach the close button. Or the drag space. So you can't get rid of it at all. And then you lose what you were working on. :( Not sure how, but one suddenly moved to the top midway through making another dialogue flowchart, so I probably just lost that.
Edit: Hey, I was able to use inspect and view the page source to move the text box and free the thing. No progress lost! :)
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 10, 2018, 11:47:34 am
How do you typically run tests? You can set _world variables using the in-game object editor, but there should probably be something to make this more convenient. (Often I'll add a temporary test object that automatically sets the relevant variables when you touch it.)
I should probably improve the bug handling for cases where the flowchart gets stuck. Right now it seems to open up a blank textbox in the case of an error for some reason...
Post by: Kamani on July 10, 2018, 12:10:52 pm
Haven’t run many tests lately, but I am planning to just add a special variable setter bit to the core item that only appears if your title is Kamani. Should make that easier.
Not sure which bug that is, but hope fixing it goes well.
Edit: All main post-dungeon dialogues are done. All that remains is the secret Lusuria areas and the associated secret dialogues.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 12, 2018, 11:11:38 am
I've added hitlag to hitboxes (that subtle effect in fighting games where both the attacker and the target freeze for a few frames on impact) which gives a good feel of weight to attacks. Combat feels pretty good - almost like an old-school beat-em-up - though I still need to handle all the edge cases as well as making the options in the world builder a bit more user-friendly, but you can give Monster Island a whirl to get a feel for the system.
Edit: It might be a good idea to test while you're writing up the dialogue... I think you got a whole bunch of If nodes backwards. (The solid line from the ? is if the condition is fulfilled, the dotted line from the : is if it is not.)
Post by: Kamani on July 12, 2018, 04:56:54 pm
I'll take a look at it sometimes.
Oops! I thought it was the opposite. I was just going to test it once I had it all finished (Edit: Because I have to do world variable messing with when I want to test). I better go fix those all.
Edit: Fixed all the ones in the inn, as far as I saw. Hope there aren't others. I'll take a run through of everything later I suppose.
Edit: Although testing will be a nightmare, since I'll have to make some kind of system to change up a bunch of different variables so I can make sure everything actually works right...
Edit: Decimal points seem to be slightly messed up in the tileset opacity menu. When I entered a decimal point, it disappeared in like 1/2 a second. If I typed a 0 first (0.5 or whatever) it works, but it took me a minute to figure that out, so it might be worth fixing.
Edit: Significant issue: I suddenly can't use the + button to add tilesets from the unused tilesets list to the active list in rooms. Since I can't add tilesets, this makes making room just about impossible. I also can't delete unused tilesets. Not great.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 13, 2018, 12:05:46 am
The decimal point issue...hm, more a quirk of the browser than an actual bug. I would like to replace the plain input fields with something more stylized (maybe with a special indicator for those that have a different value at -1) so I'll fix it then.
As for testing, you can manually set any value, item or otherwise, during gameplay by using the object editor on the player. I'm trying to think of a better solution like adding "test profiles" to the world builder but in your case the issue is more a huge number of possible variables than repeated testing of a single variable, so using the object editor would probably be the better solution anyway.
Post by: Kamani on July 13, 2018, 12:07:10 am
Okay. Makes sense.
Oh, okay. I’ll do that. Thanks.
Edit: You said that you will probably change the acolyte art (post quoted below because it was quite some time back). Any timeframe for this? I am making an acolyte character with slightly modified art (I already checked if that was okay back in late May. Again, quoted below, since this was from like two months ago, and that could be forgotten easily), so if it is soon, I'll do a lazier job on that. If you have decided not to change acolyte art, I'll probably make a better effort.
I'm probably going to change the default acolyte sprite to make them a bit more...distinguished. Probably going to give them robes, and something with a color so "unusual" ones can be easily made distinctive.
Altering the acolyte sprite should be fine.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 16, 2018, 12:04:44 am
Post by: Kamani on July 16, 2018, 12:06:01 am
Edit: Just found it. It looks nice. Also, didn't know you made the death sprite. I had thought that was one you got. Cool.
Edit (Plot Spoilers for BoundWorlds):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: The variables on my project core now stretch beyond a single page when in testing mode. But hey, finished up the last dialogue (the second to last took me like 5 days. I just couldn't get that character down). Now I just have to test everything.
Edit: Is there a way to say not-and in if statements? I need to check if one thing is active and another isn't, so I need that functionality.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 16, 2018, 02:29:04 am
Statements in parenthesis "collapse" into a 1 or a 0 depending of if they are true or false. So you can write a whole expression, then enclose it in parenthesis, and check if it is equal to 1 or 0.
Also any variable that is not set is assumed to be equal to 0, so you can use that.
If (mustbeactive = 1) & (mustbeinactive = 0)
Post by: Kamani on July 16, 2018, 02:29:54 am
Edit: I just realized I could have used = 0 instead of != 1. That was rather foolish of me.
Edit: Easy design mistakes to make: Set a _world variable, then check for a _room variable.
Edit: The number of PAINFULLY foolish mistakes in this is painful. Like the (sizable) number of times that I forgot to make checking something actually activate the dialogue.
Edit: Okay, I caught a fair number of bugs, all dialogue is done, etc. I think I am publishing Lusuria. It is still QUITE possible that there are a fair number of glitches, but I have caught all of the real blatant ones.
If anyone runs into a bug, I would appreciate it if they would tell me about it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 16, 2018, 06:36:15 am
There might be some inconsistencies due to the still not quite complete knockback physics (the stunlock from flames causes problems right now, and I haven't quite decided on how interrupting techs will work by default).
There might be some adjustments needed later to get them to handle correctly, but I'll try to minimize the extra work.
Post by: Kamani on July 16, 2018, 12:54:42 pm
Huh. I thought I had set poise damage to 0 on those, in order to fix that. I guess the new changes changed how that works. I prefer the techs on my enemies to be entirely interrupt immune unless set up to be interruptible, since I forecast all of them, and it kind of ruins it if you attack the Pyreskull in the middle of the explosion animation and it cancels it (this used to happen).
Okay. Thank you.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 17, 2018, 12:16:40 am
Eh, I'll probably just go with the first option. I mean, the "default" object has no HP and is therefore invincible, so adding conditions shouldn't be much of an issue.
The other issue is whether or not techs should be interruptable (assuming the user is subject to knockback). Interrupting a dash by necessity messes up the entire flow of the technique, but this is not necessarily the case for all techniques. Hmm... Maybe making techs interruptable can be a condition which is off by default, but any object with infinite mass and flinch resistance cannot be interrupted anyway... And there should probably be a way to turn off and on "super armor" during a tech... This is basically turning into some kind of RPG/fighting game hybrid.
Post by: Kamani on July 17, 2018, 12:20:59 am
Makes sense.
I’d go with making it intertuptable but disabled by default, I guess? I suppose the fighting game hybrid thing is kind of funny, since BoundWorlds was originally going to be more artsy and with no combat, but it seems to be working out pretty well all in all.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 17, 2018, 01:57:28 pm
I think what I'll do is make flinching and knockback off by default, but make techs interruptable by default if the user is either able to flinch or is subject to knockback. So the gameplay for existing "immovable" creatures will remain the same (basic RPG-like), but as long as you set either a mass or flinch value the user will utilize the more advanced knockback/combo system.
Spoiler: Lusuria Secrets (click to show/hide)
There's a character I plan on making who hides "behind" trees and gradually figures it out.Post by: Kamani on July 17, 2018, 02:23:22 pm
Also makes sense. Probably the best way to do that all in all.
Spoiler: Lusuria Secrets Response (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 17, 2018, 03:10:47 pm
Post by: Kamani on July 17, 2018, 07:03:29 pm
Edit: Oh, one exception to the monsters thing: Sorcery Flames are not people whatsoever. They are just magical flames Spids made. Entirely non-sentient.
Edit: Yeah, crashes are still happening, but they are wayyyy slower. I just got one after editing for like 4-5 hours. Admittedly, I was just writing dialogue, so that doesn't take much memory, probably, but it seems to be slower either way. Edit: I did save first, thank gosh.
Edit: All changes are made. Odds are, I missed some bugs, but probably less this time, so that's an improvement.
Unfortunately, for the next 5ish days, I am going to be way too busy to use BoundWorlds (or do really anything at all. I can't say I am a fan of times when I have no free time), so I won't have time for any bug fixes or starting the next dungeon during that time. If any bugs are noticed, I'll just have to fix them after that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 18, 2018, 03:20:44 am
Hmm, it's possible I missed a data leak source somewhere. Do you happen to remember exactly what kind of objects you were mainly editing before the crash? Flowcharts? Functions?
Post by: Kamani on July 18, 2018, 03:56:53 am
Dialogue flowcharts. It crashed when I was testing them (I think I was either exiting or leaving the inn), and I had been editing the Fulmine/Eritae (if the second name is similar to a word, it’s unintentional. The first is Italian for lightning bolt) dialogue before the crash for like 2 or 3 hours. Before that, I was just doing the brief item on gate sidequest.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 20, 2018, 09:51:54 am
There is a slight difference between setting Max Poise to -1 and setting Poise Regen to -1. If Max Poise is infinite, the sprite cannot be knocked down at all. If Poise Regen is infinite but Max Poise is not, poise damage will not accumulate but the object can still be knocked over by a single attack that overcomes their Max Poise. Armor works the same way.
There is also Mass and Hardness. Mass reduces the amount a sprite is knocked back. Hardness reduces stun frames.
Hitlag is now a stat that is found on all hitboxes. It causes both the attacker and the attacked to freeze for a few frames on impact. This is an effect found in many fighting games and animations and gives a better feeling of "weight" to attacks.
On to Lusuria...
I played through the Trial Dungeon, and it was neat! There were two major bugs - both sprites that let you enter the boss rooms were missing for some reason. Maybe you were planning on having them appear when the path to them was open? Normally I don't do this on principle, but since the fix was both essential for completing the dungeon at all and extremely minor to fix, and you said you wouldn't be around for a few days, I fixed them up myself so other people can try out the dungeon.
The only thing the world is missing now is music and sound effects. It'll need them to give it a professional feel.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on July 20, 2018, 10:16:42 am
Makes sense.
Also makes sense.
Seems neat. I’ll have to test it out next time I make some enemies (or maybe a boss, since it seems like that might not work super well on something like a golem).
On Lusuria: Oh gosh, thanks for the fix. I could have sworn I placed them, but I guess I forgot.
I’m still at kind of a loss for music for the dungeon (and doubly so for Lusuria). I’m looking for something specific, but I have yet to find anything.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Again, thanks for the fix (I thought I tested that bit, but I guess not). I’m still unable to edit for two or three days, so I am glad that it won’t be badly broken for that time.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 20, 2018, 11:25:15 am
There's also http://soundimage.org/ which has a huge amount of the best free-use music loops I have ever found. Make sure you give credit to Eric Matyas if you add anything from there, he's already in the system.
Which reminds me, I should really finish up the auto-credit reel event. (The event is there as a placeholder, it just doesn't do anything yet.)
Post by: Kamani on July 20, 2018, 11:38:46 am
I’ll take a look at them. That should work for the dungeon. Not sure if I’ll find the music I need for Lusuria, since I am looking for something pretty specific.
Yeah, that’s probably pretty important. Which reminds me, I need to find a place to add that. Possibly post dungeon win? Either that, or on a sign thingy.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 22, 2018, 04:03:24 pm
I've added a preliminary version of the credits reel. It's not as organized as I'm planning for it to be, but it does give a list of all artists and their contributions, and links to their websites when applicable, so that works as a minimum.
Roll Credits works as a normal event; the function continues when the credits are done. You can make it a cutscene or even leave the game playable during the credits. I'll add more specific options soon.
Post by: Kamani on July 22, 2018, 05:51:41 pm
Cool. I’ll take a look at how it currently is tomorrow (when I’ll be back to my next dungeon (I think I’ll do Batelier’s dungeon next)).
Makes sense. Probably the best way to do it, given the condition.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 23, 2018, 03:34:55 pm
Seriously, you've been doing a lot. If I ever do wind up making money off of this game, I think I'll have to pay you for content creation :)
As for me, let's see what's next on the checklist... I guess it's about time to start working on more advanced AI behaviors. I think I'll start with enemies that run away when they are in danger.
Post by: Kamani on July 23, 2018, 09:03:16 pm
Eh, it’s been fun for me to work on this, so I’m good.
Makes sense. Should be useful. I’ll try it for some ambient none-hostiles when it’s done.
Edit: Hmm... I used the Roll Credits effects and it just tinted the screen. Any clue what could be wrong?
I'm not going to set it up to look nice until there are some improvements (something to prevent gameplay and black out the screen while the credits rolled would probably work well for my case. Beyond that, those might be good to add anyway, since they seem generally useful).
Edit: Are the volume, pitch, and speed options for SFX not yet implemented? I need them to test out some of the sound effects.
Beyond that, preliminary run at sound effects is done. It isn't great, since I don't have sound effects tailored to certain specific instances, where a more specific use effect would work better, but it is there. There is still no Lusuria music because I can't figure out what to put there, since I lack the one specific song I want.
Edit: Hmm... Any advice on finding sideview tilesets? Unlike probably all of the other Trial dungeons, Batelier's is going to be sideview. Might use some sideview elements in others, thinking about it, but probably not to the same level Batelier's uses them. Need kind of a dungeony-towery sideview tileset, and I have no clue where to even begin looking. I'd make one myself, but, like I've said before, I can't art.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 24, 2018, 03:24:19 am
Volume and speed should work for sound effects. Pitch does not, but speeding up or slowing down sounds changes their pitch. I did see a program that managed to separate them but I'm not sure how.
Sideview tilesets shouldn't be hard to find. I'll see if I can locate a good one later.
Post by: Kamani on July 24, 2018, 03:28:14 am
Huh. I didn’t think the volume changed, but I’ll test it again tomorrow. Maybe I just missed it.
Okay. Thanks. I guess I am just not very good at finding things.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 24, 2018, 03:20:46 pm
Volume did in fact have a bug. It's fixed now.
I found a few platformer tilesets. Most of them are 16x16, but you can use those now. (Don't even ask about the meat one, figured it might be cool at some point though.) Depending on how detailed you want to be, sidescrollers are a bit more forgiving in what you can get away with and still look decent; all you really need is a brick tile for the solid blocks and another tile for the backgrounds. You can probably manage with existing tilesets anyway.
Post by: Kamani on July 24, 2018, 03:25:19 pm
Oh, thanks. I’ll have to adjust the sound volumes in Lusuria now that that works.
Regarding 16x16 tilesets: Thanks. I’ll take a look.
Regarding detailedness of sidescrollers: I guess, but I’d prefer it look pretty nice. You have to sit through it for the whole extent of the dungeon, so it shouldn’t be bland or it will get dull.
Edit: It appears that if you save a world as a draft without publishing world first, you won't be able to load it again. This should probably be fixed before someone loses a lot of work (I lost about two minutes of tile set setting up, so nothing major, but someone could actually lose something significant, so...).
Edit: Note: For purposes of talking about switching sprite control, I'll be referring to the original sprite as the main sprite. Because it'll make more sense for me to keep writing it.
Edit: Think I'll give the main sprite jump 8 (same as the jump boots/spring jump) and slightly reduced gravity (to .46 rather than .5). This way the player won't have to spring jump all the time. Of course, flight using Batelier will be present, but you'll only be able to leave rooms with the main sprite (most rooms anyways. Some rooms can be entered with Batelier, although you can't switch between the main sprite and Batelier if they aren't in the same room). Also, some switches will only be activatable by the main sprite (because bats aren't going to easily manipulate things that need detailed hands).
Edit: While looking for an exterior bit for the castle, I noticed that Whisperling's tilesets can be found here: https://opengameart.org/content/pixel-art-castle-tileset. These aren't... cited, I guess?, so...
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 24, 2018, 11:54:00 pm
Edit: While looking for an exterior bit for the castle, I noticed that Whisperling's tilesets can be found here: https://opengameart.org/content/pixel-art-castle-tileset. These aren't... cited, I guess?, so...
Hmm, yeah I don't really have a good solution for adding missing credits to files that someone else uploaded. Not sure if there is one short of making moderator accounts. Which is what I'll probably end up doing.
I should probably also specify that uploaded files should be made public, unless the uploader created them themselves.
Post by: Kamani on July 25, 2018, 12:00:48 am
Also, thanks. I couldn't remember the word credited, so I just used cited because it was closeish. Words are hard.
Edit: Somehow, I completely missed the second half of that (or you just edited it, not sure). Makes sense. I have a fair number of non-shared tiles, but they are all either stuff available in other content (I have the a Hyptosis Goblin Cave and Town set because sorting through all four tilesets was getting old) or stuff people wouldn't really need (a blank person sprite from Chara's Project I used for Shadow Mage's art, and a single piece of a Hyptosis tileset reversed because I needed it reversed).
Edit: Not sure if this is a glitch or just a strange setup, using set as avatar and set as camera on a testing Batelier sprite create function caused the main sprite's head to be put on Batelier and follow them around (until they died due to not being flying). Seeing as I need the main sprite around so they can switch between them, this isn't working. Is this a glitch or a design thing (I can work around it, but if it is a glitch, I'll just wait)?
Edit: Actually, it makes the main sprite follow around the testing sprite, not just the head. That was due to some misuse of grass tiles.
Edit: Any good way to add a skill to the player without transforming or items? I'll use items if there is no other way, but having a way to add a skill otherwise would be nice.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 25, 2018, 03:46:35 pm
I've got a basic version of the fear system in place. Units in combat will evaluate the combined {(_hp / _hp_max) * _threat} of all their nearby allies and enemies, multiply their combined ally's strength (including themselves) by their own individual {_courage}, and then compare the two values; if their own values are less then that of their enemy's then they will attempt to flee from the most significant nearby threat. This creates some fun and surprisingly realistic emergent behaviors when pitting groups of sprites against each other, like a few less courageous soldiers breaking rank creating a chain reaction that leads to a rout of their army.
There's also a loose framework for drawing aggro and choosing the most appropriate target, but I haven't done much with it yet. This will become more elaborate once I start working with player allies.
I've decided to make the threat level of the player as 10 by default. The base threat level is roughly based on the amount of damage the sprite can inflict in a short period of time (which makes more sense than basing it on HP). It's not really an exact value.
Edit: I'd like to make a system to add a skill using status effects, but there's nothing in place for that yet. You're talking about the switch ability, I take it?
Post by: Kamani on July 25, 2018, 03:59:10 pm
Cool. Probably won’t end up using that in Batelier’s Trial, since that won’t really fit here, but I think it will be relevant for the Trial after that.
Makes sense. Should be neat.
Also makes sense.
Makes sense, and yup, talking about the switch ability. I guess I’ll just use an item. Bright side: I wanted Batelier to give you an item upon victory, so I can just make it (plot wise) the same item (Which will actually be a variable on the core item. It will make Batelier appear in Lusuria too).
Edit: Having the main sprite attached to Batelier sprite issue again, even though I am in an item skill function instead of a create function (the item is gotten from a create function, but I wouldn't think that would make a difference).
Also, another new glitch. Flying up from drop tiles on to tiles that would be solid (example: try to fly all the way up the tower using the Batelier sprite in the map) causes the player to gain an amount of vertical height that, based on some short testing, appears to be based on the distance to the current ground for the flyer.
Also, flying at the side of a solid tile while on drop tiles above topdown tiles acts weird. Kind of jumpy?
I won't have any instances of this besides the initial tower room, but it is impossible to avoid topdown drop flying mix for the first room, and that is probably going to be a source of many bugs.
Working on this is going to be wayyy different than Lusuria. Different gameplay style, different number of NPCs, etc. Well, variety is the spice of life and all that.
Edit: Basic Batelier switch is in. Haven't noticed any new bugs (and the player sticking on seems to have stopped. If you fixed that, thanks), and basic flight is working. Tomorrow I'll get started on the actual dungeon design and all that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 26, 2018, 10:22:22 am
One option: You can make the entire area a sidescroller, and have the entrance to the tower kind of on the side, with a balcony above it. Maybe a narrow strip of land surrounded by water or obstacles to make it more reasonable why you can't go "around" it. It's a bit difficult to explain, so I built a temporary area using a similar setup. (I also realized while building it you can also add a parallax background that way, which is cool. Maybe even a short platforming area leading up to the tower would be nice.)
I'd also suggest setting a maximum height for flying, unless you make every area a sidescroller and cap off the top with solid blocks.
Are each of the Trials going to have a "theme"? I missed the one for Lusuria, if there was one.
Post by: Kamani on July 26, 2018, 11:28:56 am
But that should work better anyways. I’ll do a short platforming bit before the tower too.
I thought I had? Although I guess since I’ll be changing the starting room, I won’t really need it, since every room can have roofs.
Nope. The real reason Batelier calls it the Trial of Teamwork is because they don’t want people to know that they are the Trial Guardian until you’ve won. They’ll also refer to themselves (when talking about the Trial Guardian) in third-person, and if you are sufficiently nice, they’ll give you hints towards beating the Trial. Also, Lusuria didn’t really have much of a theme, whereas this one does.
Edit: Going to look at the tower example you made, but I can't seem to load worlds in the world selection. I double click them, and nothing happens. The bottom of the screen says Loading (insert opening room name), but nothing seems to happen. After waiting a few minutes, nothing happens (except the FPS drops for a second).
After some more testing, I can load some worlds (Bottom of the Mountain), but I got a partial loading glitch where one of the tilesets didn't load, the avatar didn't load, and everything was a bit slow (and this never ended or fixed itself like the similar old glitch). After leaving and reentering, things are back to normal.
After running around for a while exploring worlds, everything is loading fine. Still, that wasn't super great, and should probably be fixed.
Edit: Oh, right, checked out the example, trying it out now.
Edit: Any good ways to make a tile be solid from the top but drop from the bottom (besides adding a bunch of invisible _y checkers)? In addition on that, it would also be nice to be able to make it possible to drop through a platform like that (like the platforms in platformers that you can drop through but can be flow up through). Not sure how I could manage that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 27, 2018, 01:12:06 am
Edit: Any good ways to make a tile be solid from the top but drop from the bottom (besides adding a bunch of invisible _y checkers)? In addition on that, it would also be nice to be able to make it possible to drop through a platform like that (like the platforms in platformers that you can drop through but can be flow up through). Not sure how I could manage that.
That is planned eventually, but there's no real good solution for it right now. The closest you can get, if you're looking to ascend to a higher level by jumping, is using "stairs" of floor tiles alternating with drop tiles, closed off at the sides with solid blocks so you can only jump up or down. Mostly I would just use solid blocks and ladders. BW is still lacking a lot of the conveniences of a "true" platforming game.
Also it looks like making the base tile type "drop" has some unintended effects that you don't get when using actual drop tiles...that needs to be fixed too I guess.
By the way, if you uncheck a tilemap's "visible" box it will be semi-transparent when you are editing it but invisible otherwise. This may be more convenient than changing its opacity.
Post by: Kamani on July 27, 2018, 07:39:30 am
Hmm. I might want to hold off on Batelier’s Trial until that’s done. Those platform kind of tiles are already painful not to have, and I am about four jumps in.
I guess I’ll start on one of the other Trials for now?
Okay.
Yup. Used visibility unchecked on the invisible sign in the stone pillar, if I recall correctly.
But for tilesets, I prefer changing opacity. Means I can have it be visible when I want, but it can be fully invisible when I am adding objects or similar. Plus, since I use one tileset for all tile controlling, it doesn’t take too much work to deal with the opacity.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 27, 2018, 08:09:13 am
I've improved on the morale system to somewhat fix the issue where sprites end up "hovering" right outside their aggro range as if unsure if they want to attack or retreat. I've also added a _morale variable; you can adjust it manually if _courage is -1, otherwise it functions automatically. Sprites will retreat if their _morale is less than 0.
Post by: Kamani on July 27, 2018, 08:14:49 am
Makes sense. I really have to get around to taking a look at that.
Edit: I should really learn how to sprite. Being able to make a couple of characters would make life far easier. I just realized that I don't have a great sprite for the next Trial Guardian, and I checked OpenGameArt and didn't really find what I need. I really do need to look into that...
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 30, 2018, 06:16:41 am
I'm improving the animation system - I'm redesigning the item code to allow for animations while using an item, and a play animation event is in the works. I think it's about time to start thinking about animated tilesets as well.
Post by: Kamani on July 30, 2018, 11:52:43 am
Cool. And yeah, animated tilesets would probably be helpful.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 30, 2018, 01:32:36 pm
Due to the way BW places hitboxes (rotating them based on the object's actual direction, which may not be the same as the apparent direction of their sprite) getting big sprites like that dragon to work nicely as an enemy may prove to be rather difficult, so be warned (I tried giving it a bite and flame attack but was unable to get it to look right). I may have to make some new code options specifically to handle sprites like that.
Post by: Kamani on July 30, 2018, 04:23:15 pm
I think I could workaround that pretty easily by just setting the firing angle to straight lines. I think I’ll be able to figure it out. Or I’ll just do the boss a different way. Not yet sure.
Edit: Possibly loading issues? Was attempting to look at your worlds (saw the edit dates had all changed), had the refusing to load issue, got into temple of worlds teleport hall, wandered around, but some wolds didn't really seem to load. The screen just went dark and the loading text appeared, and then it stayed that way for like 30 seconds (which is unusual). Also, I'm having worlds on the world selection menu refuse to load again.
After some more testing, the Library of Sepharia usually seems to work (although there is no actual indication that a map is loading when you are in the world selection screen, and since the Library of Sepharia is usually taking 10-20 seconds to load, this was a bit easy to miss), but Harlequin Epicycle fight is failing (although it could just be taking a weirdly huge amount of time, because of aforementioned lack of indication, it has been at least 5 minutes, and the map has not loaded, and it really shouldn't be taking this long).
Edit: The castle mega pack looks nice. Now I just wish I was making Batelier's Trial so I could use it. Don't think there are going to be any castles in the desert Trial. Well, c'est la vie I guess. I'll be using it eventually.
Edit: It's... Enemy Creation Time! Wooh. Need to think up a new set of enemies for this Trial (because repetition could make things boring). Even if I reuse some of the same gimmicks (which will be inevitable at a certain point), they at least shouldn't LOOK the same, and I should reuse gimmicks as little as possible.
Edit: A tag exclude option for searches would be convenient.
Edit: Okay, how do I actually use the _distance_to variables? I tried _distance_to_target, and it returned 0 every time, and _distance_to._target, and it returned undefined and caused a weird glitchy state. So I'm kind of at a loss on this one. Also, you might want to try that, because that glitch state thingy was weird.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 31, 2018, 03:36:39 am
The loading issues are probably just caused by loading a lot of data on a slow connection (the library is its own world, but most of my other areas are part of a single world). I have to find some way of testing. A loading bar would probably be a good idea if I could figure out how to make one work.
Tag exclude option? You mean like a search for everything that does not include a particular tag? Well, I'll see what I can do.
Post by: Kamani on July 31, 2018, 03:50:47 am
Okay. I figured that, even in the larger Elemin loading case, 5 minutes would be enough, but my connection isn’t great, so...
Yeah, a loading bar would be appreciable, assuming it would be reasonably possible (I wouldn’t know, so...).
Yeah, that’s exactly it. It would make searching for not-tilesets much easier (plus, it should be fairly useful when there is a larger amount of uploaded content). Thanks for taking the time to see what you can do (I guess? I’m not entirely sure how to phrase that thanks...).
Edit: Hmm, need to remember to make this set a bit easier for enemies than the last. Also, things that would be helpful: Skills that only get used if enemies are in a line from the player (with an area on the line), and a decent way to make enemies try to move to use said skills.
This would be really useful for making a LOT of enemies with 4-way art (the previously mentioned dragon for example, and the Floating Eye enemy I was working on. Which may be on hold now).
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 31, 2018, 02:50:49 pm
First, dialogue boxes now have text inputs! Just check the "Enable text reply" option under Replies to add a custom textbox. The value in the textbox is saved as the reference variable.
Now, that's pretty pointless for the most part (unless you want to include, say, passwords or something) BUT it opens up new possibilities with what is probably the single biggest update to BoundWorlds, and can very well revolutionize what BoundWorlds is. It's time to introduce the API event!
The API event simply makes a call to an external website. Most free APIs are pretty pointless for BoundWorld's purposes, but it opens up many new doors of possibility for players who have their own websites. Any data you can store externally, can be loaded in BoundWorlds through the API. The API is intended to use JSON responses and will automatically convert JSON into generic data objects which can be read through the standard BW coding.
Some major applications I can see with this are making your own personal feed show up in your BoundWorlds creation, offering rewards in BoundWorlds to players who are also members of your own website, and even multiplayer!
Given the potential power of this event (and the fact that its overuse could eat up a significant amount of bandwidth), there is a high probability that the API will only be usable by premium users. But for now feel free to play around with it. I will probably make a couple of packaged objects that make use of it.
Edit: Hmm, need to remember to make this set a bit easier for enemies than the last. Also, things that would be helpful: Skills that only get used if enemies are in a line from the player (with an area on the line), and a decent way to make enemies try to move to use said skills.
This would be really useful for making a LOT of enemies with 4-way art (the previously mentioned dragon for example, and the Floating Eye enemy I was working on. Which may be on hold now).
I do have a plan to make more "geometric" type motion at some point (probably by setting Turn Speed to 90). And also better pathfinding AI. But for the most part I'd like to try and streamline the overall behaviors of BoundWorlds and get it settled into a specific look and feel, while trying to minimize unnecessary bloat that is available as far as basic sprite parameters are concerned (kind of too late for that, eh?), leaving more unique gimmicks for scripters to work out.
You can do some of the scripting yourself if you have specific ideas of how these particular objects are supposed to work, using things like XY comparisons, _face comparison and setting and Walk events. Not a whole lot of options for complex maze navigation though.
I did make a public Floating Eye, you can use or modify that if you want to.
Post by: Kamani on July 31, 2018, 03:00:59 pm
Well, that should probably be pretty useful for people.
I don't think I'll be really using it, since I don't have a website, but still, seems neat.
Yeah, that should be real neat.
Makes sense.
Fair enough. I'll do some messing around and try to figure it out.
Eh, the floating eye you used is neat, but it isn't quite what I am going for.
Edit: Has the dragging frames around techniques glitch been fixed? I remember that it used to break stuff, but I don't recall if that was ever fixed.
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 31, 2018, 03:36:39 pm
Post by: Kamani on July 31, 2018, 03:45:11 pm
Also, I made my Flying Eye's skills. They also paralyze, but instead of using a paralyze, they change color, and, if you are in a line with them, you get hit for 10% of max life + 5 damage and get stunned (with a color reverse because it looks nice). Now I just have to figure out how to make them actually walk into a line with the player reliably.
The main reason I want my flying eye to work like this rather than your version is because I'm hoping that with the damage inflicted this way, it should be a bit more interesting with groups. Could be totally off base, but it's worth a shot.
Edit: On a second though, I don't think the Flying Eye really fits the dungeon. Maybe one of the other dungeons, but not in the desert/cave.
I think I'll go with a golem (although they'll be a different color in the second half), snake, dragon, in the second half, and a sand-slime, plus one more in the first half I still can't decide on.
Edit: Today's loading issue: I can get everything to load as normal from the world selection menu except the new Throne Room map, which won't load (even if I make a gate to it in one of my worlds). So I guess that world just won't load for me for some reason.
Edit: Oh, and the Floaty Metal World is messed up. Only the red circle tiles are fall tiles now, and empty tiles are just floor tiles. I don't know if Shook is around, but if they are, they may want to fix that.
Edit: If you have a rotating free-rotation projectile (_face + (number) in update, for example) with damage and knockback, the knockback will trigger in any direction. Which is, admittedly, rather fun, but doesn't really make any sense for a thrown rock. I mean, I guess I could just make it no-rotate, but it looks nice this way, so I'd rather not. Any way for me to make the attack knockback work in either a line based on movement or make it work with a radial force vector (like for hitboxes. Would be goofy if you managed to run into the back of the projectile, but would otherwise work well, and kb for running into the back of a projectile can be goofy)?
Edit: I think the new golem (labeled StoneGolem so as not to mess up if used with the other golem). They disguise as rocks, then attack once the player reaches within 150. They have one general rush attack and one attack where they throw a rock. The only thing about them that is at of interest is that the color of the rock they can be disguised as can be changed, and both the golem and the rock they throw will be set to be the same color. But they should be okay enemies. Hopefully.
Edit: Also did the snake enemy, although I even less of an idea how they turned out. They have an ability that makes an egg that turns into a mini snake after 10 seconds, a poison bite, and a regular damaging bite. Pretty standard. Hopefully okay.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 01, 2018, 02:27:56 am
As for the snake, you might want to add a short-range aimed lunge to the bite attacks to make them look better. You might also want to experiment a bit with hitlag.
The throne room issue seems to have been a weird error due to the uploaded script. I fixed it so it should work now. (It's basically just a demo for text inputs - but it will probably be the center for a quest in the future.)
Post by: Kamani on August 01, 2018, 02:33:56 am
... Yeah, that would be a really good idea. Thanks. Feel kind of silly for having failed to think of it now. I’ll try out hitlag too. I just don’t know how well it’ll work for multiple enemies at once. I’ll try it out though.
Oh, okay. I’ll take a look when I am able.
Edit: Still isn't working for me. Is there another issue, or were the fixes not published? Bright side: Other worlds are loading pretty well.
Edit: If multiple packages are loaded with objects that have the same ID, will things get messed up? If so, that could lead into issues quite easily (projectiles named fireball or whatever could end up present en mass).
Edit: Messing around with Composite Operations, I tried out exclude. With a blank white circle, it makes a circle of reverse color. Very neat, possibly useful. Not really useful to me now, but I think I'll be using that eventually.
Edit: Wow, having a 672*672 image on an object makes the menu look really goofy. And the image isn't even that detailed. Possibly I should have made it smaller and just scaled it up...? That may have been a better idea.
Edit: Any good way to make an entire room change color until it is undone? I tried setting the room's color (using the... debug menu for world editing, I guess?), and nothing happens, and I don't see a way to make a flash effect have infinite duration, so I am at a loss here.
Edit: Severe glitch I guess? Suddenly every room has turned into a black and white thing in edit mode, and when I go into test mode, it's just black. The objects and tiles still seem to be normal (and I didn't save just in case), but this makes doing really anything impossible.
Edit: Happens to non-edit mode worlds too?
Edit: Rebooted BoundWorlds. Now it works. Feel silly to have taken that long to think of that, but... Still weird.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 02, 2018, 12:49:54 am
I haven't done much experimenting with composite operations outside of flashes, but my understanding is that it should be possible to make stuff like a "light circle" in a dark room by creating a black foreground layer, making a sprite that looks like a "fuzzy light ball" in that layer, and setting the light sprite to use a particular composite operation. I'm not sure which one though.
You can change a layer's color (I did this recently in a dark dungeon area). Might not work for an entire room, I'll check it out.
As for that last glitch, it seems to be related to switching rooms (or possibly opening the editor) while a flash effect is running. I'm working on fixing it.
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2018, 12:52:53 am
I think Xor should be the right one. Thanks, hadn't thought of that. That should work much better.
Edit: Wait, no, that won't work for what I am doing. Unless I make an extra invisible layer of solid black and change it's visibility all of the time. Plus it wouldn't be easily packaged.
Edit: This should work as longs as people don't go significantly offscreen, and there is nothing I can do about that.
Edit: Hmm, seems to cause some lag (probably because a huge sprite using the player as a host, and thus probably jumping to them every frame). That isn't great. Can't think of any great way to manage this one. Might have to think of something else. Any good ways to avoid this?
Oh, okay. Thanks.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 02, 2018, 01:50:07 am
1. Add a foreground layer.
2. Give the foreground layer a black square as a background. (If you like, you can use the image bounds to select a small portion of an existing image.)
3. Create a "light ball" sprite, and set its composite operation to xor or destination-out. (Not sure exactly what the difference is.) You'll see some flickering while the object is selected in the editor but it will settle when not selected. You can have multiple light balls in the layer.
You can't use this as a status effect (because it has its own layer), but you can set its _x and _y to the player's position each frame.
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2018, 01:53:28 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 02, 2018, 02:15:56 am
Well, I guess special effects will require more advanced graphical effects, and these will need to be flexible, so it might make sense to make a "create layer" event. Then effects like this will be usable in packaged objects.
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2018, 02:18:55 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 02, 2018, 02:30:08 am
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2018, 02:31:54 am
Edit: Seem to have found a workaround for the lag. I switched it to jumping every four frames (using an on create loop). Could look odd if teleported more than like 4 blocks, but will generally be fine.
The debuff will only apply to the player (because it isn't actually any kind of functional effect), but otherwise, should work just fine. It resets the lifetime on hit, but doesn't stack (because multiblind is just not needed).
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 02, 2018, 11:18:59 am
I've been doing some experimenting with composite effects and boy does it open up a ton of possibilities for cool graphic effects. (I kind of added them all at the same time just because they all happen to be options for canvas drawing operations, without really understanding how they work.) Here's a page with detailed explanations (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CanvasRenderingContext2D/globalCompositeOperation). Combined, these allow you to create a ridiculous number of possible graphical effects, which will be a lot of fun for making cool-looking spells and such.
I added a packaged lighting effect for caves. It allows you to place light sources (with adjustable sizes) or apply them as status effects, making the rest of the room show up black. It is also designed so that if you have a foreground layer called dark_layer, it will use that layer as the dark layer instead, so you can make stuff like mobile smoke or hidden passages that open up a circular "cutout" around you when you walk behind the foreground tiles. It's pretty flexible.
Post by: Kamani on August 02, 2018, 12:00:05 pm
Yeah, I was messing around with some of those yesterday. Exclude on a solid white object is fun, as were things like hue on non-solid white objects.
Neat. I’m looking forward to trying this out.
Edit: Golem has been fixed, snakes lunge, and sand dragons blind (and inflict a minor disadvantage status effect (including on non-players)). Now I just need to figure out a forth.
Edit: Unless I use sand slime in the first half instead. The second half will probably have a miniboss anyways (I'm planning on using the same style of dungeon here as Lusuria, besides the town in the middle of the trial (After you beat the trial, you'll be able to go to it without doing the first half). Not all of the Trials will do this, but I'm not sure of how many dungeon formats there really are. Any advice on dungeon formats, while I'm thinking about it?).
Edit: Actually, the sand slime doesn't work too well thematically in the cave, so I think I'll go with something else.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 03, 2018, 12:39:41 am
Most dungeons seem to go for the in-and-out structure, putting a town in the middle is interesting. Some popular dungeon "shapes" I've seen over the years:
Straight course from start to finish
Get to the middle and find a way back
"Find the key" sidepaths where you need to backtrack to the main path after getting the key/hitting the switch/doing something that lets you progress
The same as the above, but instead of forcing you to backtrack there is an easy exit that puts you back on the main path once you have completed the sidepath (preferable - backtracking is usually boring)
You can make backtracking more interesting by designing it to be played differently depending on which way you are coming from, so it "feels" like you are playing a new area even when the area is technically the same. This is rare but cool when it is done well.
"Hub" dungeons where you need to find several keys to progress
When you think about it, most adventure games follow one of these formats in their entirety. Isn't a "collect the keystones" game basically just a really big "hub" dungeon? "Every world is a temple for its inhabitants and a dungeon for its gods..."
Anyway...as for a sand-themed enemy, maybe something that burrows in the sand and pops out to attack or throw stuff at you. Or zombies. The undead seem to be popular in deserts for some reason.
Post by: Kamani on August 03, 2018, 12:58:16 am
I figured that I didn’t want to have it just be the exact same shape. Plus, a town makes a more interesting rest stop then a single generic rest room.
I’ll have to think about these more as I continue. Hadn’t really considered it before.
Thinking about it, my whole project is a hub dungeon. Although it isn’t the classic “Hero must gather N artifacts to stop bad guys from summoning the (insert ultimate evil enemy here). But inevitably, after all N artifacts are gotten, the (repeat insert ultimate evil) is summoned anyway so that the hero can dramatically defeat them instead of just sealing them away.”
That should work well. I’ll have to look for some art for them, since what we have now isn’t quite right.
Edit: Wish there was any real 4-way scorpion art on OpenGameArt. Unless I am unusually oblivious today, there is none.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 03, 2018, 11:01:42 am
I couldn't find a 4-way scorpion sprite either, but I did find one that was nice for free-rotation. I made a scorpion enemy that uses it. There's one of them in the palace dungeon.
Post by: Kamani on August 03, 2018, 11:03:52 am
Okay. Thanks for looking. I’ll take a look at it. It might work well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 04, 2018, 05:01:58 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 04, 2018, 11:05:32 pm
Edit: Minor text glitch sorta?: If you have text that appears character by character, and you have a word that would go past a line and thus gets moved to the next line, it starts on the first line, and then only goes to the next line when the text gets that far. For an example, the middle left Royal Guard in the second room of Throne Room has the word come start on the first line and then jump down to the second (although it happens fast and is easy to miss). It looks kind of odd.
Edit: Scorpion monster is possibly completed? Not sure if I'll keep their design. They have a standardish stinging damage attack, and a special teleport that also uses the sting attack that activates at a 100 minimum range.
Fun to mix with the blinding dragon though.
I should probably nerf their damage, either way. This set of mobs was sort of supposed to be easier, since they are earlier in the Trial dungeons. ... Again, actually, since I seem to recall that this happened in early Lusuria design (which makes more sense placed where it is, thankfully).
I'll keep thinking about it.
Edit: I can't seem to properly type decimals or negatives in the Set box for status effect modifiers? I typed in 0.05 (you can't start with a negative, just like you can't start with a decimal point), but it just turned into 5. After some more messing around, I managed to get it to work either by typing 0.5 and then adding the 0 and negative sign, or by just copy-pasting it in. I guess it doesn't like to have 0.0 typed in, so it resets when you have that.
Edit: Hmm, I think the dragon enemy needs a second skill. Too flat right now. Maybe something similar to Umbra's dragon flying attack?
Edit: Yeah, that seems to be okay.
Edit: Is there a way to use greater than or equal to (and less than or equal to) in if statements without doing something like Is n > 10 | n = 10?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 06, 2018, 02:11:00 am
I like what you did with the scorpion. The dissolve effect works well as a teleport, or an ambush.
Maybe the dragon should be a "sand dragon"? I might make an enemy scan at some point.
I'm working on making better options for weapons. Making them is quite a pain right now and it should be more automatic, at least for things that follow the general format of "stick you hit enemies with".
Post by: Kamani on August 06, 2018, 02:17:46 am
Thanks. Glad that turned out decently. I'm using it as a teleport (because I already have golems as an ambush mob, mostly. I might make a way in the package to let them also work as an ambush mob, but I don't know if I want two different ambush mobs in one world).
Good idea. Thanks. I never really got around to naming them (since I just decided to use the dragon sprite and then the rest of what they ended up doing just ended up happening), so that'll work nicely.
An enemy scan would be pretty neat. Not sure how it would work, considering how many different ways you can design an enemy, but it would be cool nonetheless.
Makes sense. Once there are some good options, maybe I should use a proper weapon (instead of just a damage multiplier like my sword) in one of the Trials to mix things up. Either way, should be neat.
Edit: First attempt for the Sand Slime (Sand Mimic?) is done. On a 5 second cooldown, it transforms into any other enemy, attacks with either of the two enemy attacks, and then transforms back. It isn't super dangerous (5 second cooldown on one attack), but it is a little less predictable then normal.
I don't know whether this will be interesting to fight or no, so it might end up replaced. Either way, I don't actually need them for the first half of the dungeon, so tomorrow, the actual dungeon building should start.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 06, 2018, 04:19:01 am
Some other ideas for a sand themed boss: slowing down the player with quicksand tiles, a sandstorm attack that obscures visibility or forces the player to find shelter, summoning sand minions (colorisation could help here), hiding under the sand. Maybe even a "puzzle boss" for an ancient ruins feel (if that's the overall aesthetic you're going for).
Post by: Kamani on August 06, 2018, 04:30:43 am
But I’m probably still using some of these for the actual Hiekka boss. Don’t think this one’ll end up a puzzle boss, although I should consider doing one of those.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 06, 2018, 01:04:17 pm
Loops can now be assigned a maximum limit. So you can do a set number of loops in a single line.
You can now make Host Techniques, basically add an ability to the player through a status effect instead of an equipped item. Note that when using the technique all variables are evaluated as the player sprite, not the effect sprite.
Finally, I fixed up the frame dragging in the tech editor, which should make creating complex techniques easier.
The weapon parameters (in the item editor) are not actually working, so ignore them for now.
Post by: Kamani on August 06, 2018, 01:56:43 pm
Cool! That should come in handy.
Thank gosh. Next time I need to move a complicated frame 20 frames over because the player doesn’t have enough time to dodge, it will be far easier.
Okay.
Edit: Can word variables be stored to item's memory partitions?
Edit: Scrolling backgrounds work very strangely. Try putting a player on the same one as it. You get some odd results.
Edit: Sorta a bug? If you are shift multi placing tiles and you mouse over a tile in the tile palette, when you release, it will switch to the tiles you were over and place that tile instead. When you are creating tile patches bigger than your screen, this can wind up being a real inconvenience. Not a huge issue, just a minor pain.
Edit: Hmm... Do you think the cave first room looks alright? I'm not 100% on this tileset yet (it's missing some pieces (I made some bad fill-ins with lazy editing, but that already has the word bad in it), and some things look wrong), but I don't know if the issues with it are bad enough to justify losing that decent color scheme match (comparable to, say, the Hyptosis Goblin Caves, with purple floors and stuff).
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 07, 2018, 04:20:24 am
Yeah, don't put the player on scrolling or parallax layers, the reason why you can put sprites on scrolling backgrounds at all is because it can make some cool effects like tiny objects moving or interacting in the distance, but the camera doesn't know what to do with it and trying to manage xy positions across disjointed layers will also be weird (since scrolling only affects where the objects are drawn, not their "real" positions. I might add some handler for this at some point.
I'll check out the rest later.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 07, 2018, 04:23:54 am
Post by: Kamani on August 07, 2018, 12:43:57 pm
Edit: Oops, missed your first post. Responses:
On text variables in items: Got it in one. I want to be able to use an alternate title to use for the player (which will be under a settings tab in the quest core). If I could store a text input, I could just have an on create effect at the beginning of each world that set the player's title to that. (Side note: A max characters number for text entry would be appreciable).
On scrolling layers: Okay. Good to know.
On the rest: Okay. Thanks.
In addition: minor glitch: Type q into a text entry box, and the menu will still pop up. This should probably be prevented as long as the text entry box is open.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 08, 2018, 07:51:36 am
I've also added a _pos variable for layers, which contains the absolute position of the layer relative to the room, after taking scrolling and parallax into account. Since sprite _pos refers to the sprite's position relative to the layer, you can get a sprite's absolute position by using {_pos.0 - _layer._pos.0,_pos.1 - _layer._pos.1}. Useful if you want objects between layers with scrolling to interact.
(I don't think I've mentioned before, but you can get an individual object in an array variable using a .(index) format, starting with 0. So _pos.0 is the same as _x, and _pos.1 is the same as _y).
I used this along with some layering effects to create an overpowered item that will probably be made a secret (or at least really expensive) soon, but I feel like showing it off anyway so I snuck one into Chicken Rock (you can't leave with it). It is also an example of the kind of attack that the boss flag is intended for.
Edit: Another minor touch-up, making it easier to set bounds on an image. The corners are easier to click, the rectangle is less buggy, and you can hold shift to create the bounds anywhere.
Post by: Kamani on August 08, 2018, 12:26:59 pm
Okay. Should come in handy.
Oh, neat. Hasn’t effected me yet, since all the times I have used array variables, I’ve been changing the whole thing, but that should come in handy.
I’ll make sure I take a look at it today, while it’s still around.
Good. Image bounds could be a bit annoying to set, so that should be helpful.
Edit: Ugh, just can't find inspiration on what to do for this second dungeon floor of the cave section. Maybe I should just make it enter out into the desert early. I know what I want to do for the desert section, so I wouldn't get stuck here.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 10, 2018, 03:08:45 am
Having a general theme or backstory for the dungeon could help you come up with ideas. I don't know what the town is going to be like or how it's different in principle from Lusuria, but if you start with that it can help you come up with ideas.
Going to start making a new video soon. The new layering system should make for some nice flashy effects that will go well in a trailer.
Post by: Kamani on August 10, 2018, 04:02:31 am
The desert section of the dungeon has a fair amount of thought put into it, but the caves ended up as kind of a last minute addition (possibly I should just do full desert?). Actually, considering BOTH of the Trial Guardians, full desert makes more sense (one being too large to fit into a smaller space, and the other being a sentient animating force/spirit of the entire desert). I think I’ll go with that.
Neat. A new video should turn out nicely.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 10, 2018, 04:37:46 am
Post by: Kamani on August 10, 2018, 04:42:12 am
Edit: For a couple minutes, loading wasn't working at all. It was just going up to a percent then stopping. Any clue why that was?
Edit: Screen glitch again: If you load the BossTesting room I have editing and enter the gate, BoundWorlds will partial freeze (menu still works). But if you use the menu to leave, the edit/playing screen goes entirely black, and will remain that way until BoundWorlds is fully rebooted. Not sure why this is happening, but since this appears to be a repeatable glitch, it might be possible to figure it out.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 12, 2018, 03:55:35 am
As for the loading issue, it's probably just your internet connection, though it is possible that there are some bugs that only occur if the connection is slow or faulty that can stop loading entirely (it's supposed to keep trying until it succeeds, but I haven't tested it much) . There is an issue with backtracking into certain areas while exploring, but this is probably not what you were dealing with.
Edit: Ok, shouldn't crash anymore. Also fixed up some other bugs, like the backtrack issue, retaining flash effects between rooms, and made option selectors look nicer.
Post by: Kamani on August 12, 2018, 12:21:33 pm
Okay. The weird thing was that it was loading normally (still slow, what with the bad connection here), and then suddenly it started loading up (once up to like 70%), and then stopping, which I haven’t seen before. But I suppose it’s gone now, so...
Good. Thanks for the fixes.
Edit: Hmm... Not sure if the boss is sufficient or no (before life balancing, of course). It feels a bit lacking with just the two moves and the summoning, but I can't think of anything to add. I guess I'll just keep thinking on it for now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 13, 2018, 08:28:34 am
Maybe an attack where he dives under the sand and bursts out from below the player?
Post by: Kamani on August 13, 2018, 11:29:54 am
That might work. I’ll try it out later today. Thanks.
Edit: Not sure if I should note spelling mistakes or not (people seem to generally complain about them, so I guess they should probably be fixed?), but in the Create Hitbox event menu, if you mouse over the condition setting, the word condition in the description is spelled condtion. Also, should I note any future spelling issues or no?
Edit: Dig attack is done. I think dragon health should be about 350? Now I just have to set up the thing to make the battle actually end correctly when hp becomes 0, and then this should be good. Edit: 400 health, I think?
Edit: Glitch I do not understand whatsoever: for some reason, when I have the sand blind status effect from the sand dragons, I can move while blocking.
Edit: Post-dragon cutscene set up to be easily made.
Edit: Credits glitch: If you go into edit mode (might happen if you main menu too, I haven't checked), the credits will stop rolling, but won't disappear (you can actually scroll through them though). They should probably disappear?
Also, is there a good way to make flash effects that last until disabled? I know that used to be done with _room.flashcolor and _room.flashlevel, but I seem to recall that was removed, so I don't know how to do it now, since flash effects are short term.
Edit: Oh, right, is the IndigoFenix at the end of the credits always added because you made BoundWorlds? I only ask because it looks a little odd if you also have you in the credits for a sprite (the acolyte red face in this instance).
Edit: Wait, it is also in there an extra time because of the rainbow blocks. Must have been entered differently? I better figure that one out...
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 14, 2018, 02:59:35 am
To handle flash effects, you can either set a reference variable (use looping to keep the flash going until then) and destroy it when needed using Destroy Object, or you can bind it to a sprite (generally a status effect) and it will disappear when that object is destroyed.
I'll fix up the credits. My name is probably at the end because you are using some of my objects (the object programmer credits are still only partially implemented.)
Pointing out spelling errors is fine.
Post by: Kamani on August 14, 2018, 03:20:43 am
Okay. Thanks.
Ohh. Okay. Makes sense. I’ll still have to try to consolidate the other two instances of IndigoFenix, but at least I know this one’s presence makes sense. Thanks.
Okay. I will do so if I see any more.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 14, 2018, 02:44:36 pm
Basically, as the world builder, you will pick up the most reward points for players in your world if the player gets right at the low end of a D- rank. It should never be possible to exit a world with an S rank; players who do so will have the extra sparks (or if they did not get enough sparks, some of the new items they picked up) taken from them upon completing a world and if it is possible to do so then this indicates bad world design. S ranks are bad!
Yeah the ranking system makes no sense, I'm going to change it, I'm just not sure exactly what it should be changed to, or how the system will fit in with the plot exactly.
Post by: Kamani on August 14, 2018, 02:48:27 pm
Yeah, I do have to agree that that ranking system doesn’t make much sense.
Okay. Looking forward to whatever it will end up becoming.
Edit: The Sculptor (golem boss) has only two skills (not counting the one that is only used as part of one of the others), and I can't decide whether it works as a miniboss or not. Admittedly, the last miniboss had three, and one of them was a basic tackle, but there was a pretty big difference, since Sculptor has precisely 0 damaging attacks (they have a regen move that can be countered sort of Lusuria golem style, but with immobile rocks instead of living rocks (and no nodeath), and a move that makes a desert golem).
They are still tough though, since you have to keep destroying their spawns if you want a clear shot.
I guess I'll just leave it in for now.
Edit: I think Hiekka will need to be a puzzle boss, since there is no real way that Hiekka can be harmed (I mean, story-wise, all of the Trial Guardians are far more powerful then they act for the player (Trial difficulty does change with the participant, since different forms may have otherwise unfair combat advantages), but I don't think that works really at all with the sentient living force of an entire desert (which fills the entire world)). Haven't made one before, so this might be a bit more tricky...
Also, you called it right when you said a puzzle boss might work well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 15, 2018, 04:35:02 pm
Also I should mention that items used count toward points lost, which can make the whole system fairly indeterminate, you'll have to make an educated guess as to what the average player will use up to complete the world. This might need some adjustment, given that players may vary significantly in terms of how often they use items.
All of this only shows when you are in one of your own worlds. None of these details affect the player directly unless they go over the limit, in which case they get an "Unstable" warning message to let them know that they will lose sparks for entering a gate to a new world unless they wait around for a while.
All this is basically to answer the question of "limiting rewards gained from player-made stages" that games like Super Mario Maker and Little Big Planet both had to deal with. (SMM handled it by simply setting a maximum of 3 extra lives and making this the only thing that carried over, while LBP as far as I know just kind of ignored the issue entirely). This is a rather complicated solution, but hopefully it will create a system where acquiring sparks actually means something.
Post by: Kamani on August 15, 2018, 04:45:28 pm
Okay.
Makes sense, and it sounds like it'll probably work. On Little Big Planet: you didn't really have a grand score as far as I recall, so carrying stuff between levels wasn't a huge deal. You could collect as many items in a world as possible, but since you could only use them to build your own content or to decorate yourself, it didn't really make a huge difference in the long run. And scorewise, you only competed against people in the same level, so if everyone hit the maximum number of points, everyone just tied for first and it didn't do anything.
Edit: Huh, unstable 47 on Guardian's Challenge. I suppose spamming Spring Jumps makes it a bit easy... Those really counter some standard enemies.
Edit: I am completely clueless on how to do a boss fight for Hiekka. This one might take me a day or two to figure out. Hard to make a boss fight for something that could never be hurt in any way I guess. I'd do a shapeshifter bossfight, since that would fit, but I already have one of those, so I should probably avoid it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 16, 2018, 01:29:42 am
Maybe Hieakka's challenge can be a part of the dungeon instead of a boss fight? After all, there's no reason why a trial guardian's challenge must be a battle. This can also help you come up with new and interesting dungeon areas. Some sort of puzzle involving sand sculptures perhaps.
Do you have a plan for each of the worlds you are intending to make? With two or even three boss battles per dungeon I'd be concerned about running out of ideas unless I planned them out ahead of time. (That's basically enough material for an entire Zelda game).
Post by: Kamani on August 16, 2018, 02:03:01 am
That is a very good idea. Thank you. I know Batelier won’t be the final boss, so there is no reason that they all should be.
I have plans for the end bosses of every Trial Dungeon except the third tier one and the third tier two (which I don’t have really any plans for... it just feels like there should be three per tier).
The mid-bosses I have plans for most of them (although I don’t know if Batelier will have a real mid-boss).
The mini-bosses I am a little less worried about, since they generally have pretty basic skill sets (Fulmine has two skills and a rush (and wasn’t even originally intended to BE a boss), and Sculptor has two (a heal and a summon. They never attack directly)), and a little repetition in them won’t be the end of the world as long as they are decently unique.
Edit: Think I'm going to end up not putting the town in the middle of the Trial because my original plan (caves, town, desert) is not getting used. I think I'm going to end up doing a light puzzle that covers the entire dungeon based on two special types of floors which both can't be active at once (and can only be switched after you fight the mid-boss (Sculptor, who is getting redesigned and promoted to mid-boss). Autem is the final boss now, and Hiekka is both the puzzle, and, technically speaking, the dungeon (I guess this counts as a very strange twist on the classic "dungeon inside a monster" :P)). This also means that I am actually bothering to draw out the dungeon before making it, so hopefully that'll turn out pretty well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 17, 2018, 04:28:45 am
Working on a few new item-related features, notably the ability to permit or forbid the use of particular items in particular rooms. I guess that classifying items under particular "categories" like healing, combat, and so on might also make sense.
Edit: You can now permit and forbid the use of all or specific items in individual rooms. No item categories yet.
Post by: Kamani on August 17, 2018, 12:36:55 pm
Neat. That should come in handy.
Cool.
Edit: Do 48x32 rooms lag for you? A nearly empty 48x32 room is lagging pretty badly for me, so I'd like to know if that is normalish.
Edit: Never mind. The real issue was not the SIZE of the room, it was that I have 4 colored tilesets and they lag terribly. This is... problematic. Not really sure what to do about this.
Edit: I guess I could make some copies and then colorize them using GIMP. That would mean BoundWorlds isn't colorizing them, which would mean no lag. Plus maybe I could add some transfer tiles...
That'll work, I suppose.
Edit: To avoid uploading like 5 tilesets that I will never use again, will the colorize lagging thing be fixed?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 18, 2018, 01:02:49 pm
I'm wondering if I should increase the sparks-per-second maximum, and if so by how much. It doesn't really matter in a practical sense, only in the sense of how many points per second people generally expect to get in a game and what "feels good". I guess part of the issue is whether or not BoundWorlds should feel more "arcade" friendly. Very few fast-paced games only give you a maximum of one point per second (let alone one point every five seconds); my space shooter test has to give fractional points to work, and it just doesn't feel natural. I can of course make a custom value and then exchange them afterwards but... I'm going to do a quick study of different kinds of games and see what is a typical "base denomination per second".
Post by: Kamani on August 18, 2018, 01:36:07 pm
I don’t really know what would be good, but good luck finding the right balance.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 18, 2018, 03:29:22 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 18, 2018, 04:51:46 pm
Edit: I ended up making colorized tilesets anyways, primarily because I wanted to make transfer tiles, and then, since I wanted to make sure the transfer tiles had the exact same color as the colorized tilesets, I figured it would just be easier to do it this way. Although I ended up combining all of them into a single tileset for some reason.
Well, colorized tilesets will definitely come in handy in the future, in any case.
Edit: Woops. All that, and I mes up the transfer tiles. Better redo that... Ugh.
Edit: Advantages of GIMP: Can do a lot of different stuff. Options!
Disadvantages of GIMP: You might never even figure out how to do pretty basic stuff without guides because it is so utterly unintuitive.
Edit: Welp, I tried making a sprite (because I couldn't find what I needed) called ColorSandControl. I really need to learn how to sprite, because it's pretty awful and it took like two hours. Well, I guess I'll go back to searching OpenGameArt.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 19, 2018, 06:32:57 am
You can post your art on the "random things you drew" topic and ask for advice on improving it. It's how I developed the current player sprite.
I'm making some more character sprites. Might have to ask for advice myself soon.
Post by: Kamani on August 19, 2018, 11:15:29 am
Okay. Will do. Thanks.
Neat. Looking forward to seeing them.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 19, 2018, 12:11:52 pm
Post by: Kamani on August 19, 2018, 12:57:02 pm
Edit: I went to fix the Lusuria credits and add the flash effect, but when I went to fix it, the credits didn't appear. I initially thought it was the flash effect, but I removed that and still nothing appeared. I seem to recall this happening once before, but it worked in-between then and now, so I really don't know what's wrong. This may be a glitch, or I might have just messed something up.
Edit: Additional question: Which formats of sound files does BoundWorlds support?
Edit: Seeing as the town is no longer going to come in the middle of the dungeon, I'll be doing that next.
Edit: If someone doesn't have a website, it probably shouldn't be possible to click on them (creating an about:blank page) when making credits. Won't normally matter, but when using a compilation, you might not have a page.
Edit: Getting to the point where you can recognize tiles you see online/in games from other places is an odd experience.
Edit: Never considered the difficulty game designers go through to make every door inexplicably face south without making places look terribly unnatural. Would be kind of silly to see a game large city converted into real life buildings.
Edit: Normally towns are entered from one of the four directions (especially north, east, and west). This one is entered from the center. Advantages of everything working based on magic portals, I suppose. Lorewise, the town was built around the gate, which is used to obtain materials that wouldn't be found in a desert. Security used to be a problem, but these days, with the gate magic created by Hydragyre and Franz (the town is warned twenty four hours before the player arrives) and the fact that the entire desert is sentient, that isn't really an issue. The entire desert being sentient also means that the town is comfortably warm instead of painfully hot, despite it being in the middle of a desert (although I suppose technically the desert has no center, seeing as it spends an entire world, which is, in theory, a sphere. Or maybe all points are the middle?). I wonder if this counts as overthinking it... Ah well, if extraneous information isn't shoved into the player's face, the amount that exists isn't really significant.
Edit: The gate is also why the houses are in such different style. The houses initially built were made with area materials, and thus they look one way (the adobe tileset buildings), but some new houses were built with new materials (everything else).
Edit: Annoyingly enough, if anyone looks too closely, the tileset repeats are not quite in line, meaning that things jump around a bit. I probably should have considered that more before building 90% of the town... Bad planning, all things considered.
Edit: Logically speaking, the design of this town makes no real sense at all... Well, I suppose when you get to work with magic based logic, you can skip a lot of the standard rules in these kind of instances.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 21, 2018, 03:20:44 am
BoundWorlds can handle mp3, wav and ogg sound files. If there are others you'd like to use I can probably add them.
I'll check out what's up with the bugs.
Post by: Kamani on August 21, 2018, 03:28:56 am
Okay. Thanks. No need to add any types or anything, I am just going to be recording a bit of music once I get some equipment, and I’d rather not save it as a different type and have to mess with converters if I decide to use any for BoundWorlds.
Thanks.
Edit: Unlike Lusuria, Unnamed Desert Town (I need a name for it...) is going to contain mostly humans. Not entirely, because most of the town are travelers, but unlike Lusuria, it isn't a place where people mostly ended up because they had nowhere else to go. Most people in the town are natives, and though some people have ended up transformed, a majority of the town has not trasformed. In other words, time to head back to Charas Project (btw, in the media resources tab, it is written charasproject.net, but it is actually charas-project.net, so the link sends you to a dead page). Now I just have to decide if the average character should be short or tall...
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 22, 2018, 03:20:37 am
Oddly I wasn't able to reproduce the credits bug, it seems to work fine for me. I should mention that credits are only really loaded when the world is loaded so credit reels in new worlds might not work at first, but that shouldn't have been an issue in Lusuria...
Post by: Kamani on August 22, 2018, 11:13:58 am
Huh. I don’t know then. I’ll try it out again and see if I bump into it again.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 22, 2018, 11:46:08 am
I have also added _face_target as a variable, which can be easily turned on and off, and sprites can be set to automatically face their target by default or not. Since the default for this is OFF wheras before the default was on, this may mess up some existing enemies, especially those that use projectiles. You'll probably want to run down the list and turn on Face Target for existing enemy sprites. It's under the AI Behaviors tab.
Post by: Kamani on August 22, 2018, 11:51:02 am
Should come in handy. I’ll make sure nothing broke for my monsters next time I’m on.
Edit: For flash effects: Is _room supposed to target all of the sprites in a room and not the room? I thought _room targeted the whole room, but when I was testing my shocker spider lightning, it targeted only every sprite in the room rather than the room.
I wonder if I should remove the spheres from my monsters package... They're not very good, so they're pretty much just clutter as is.
All of my monsters are updated to fit with the face target changes. Thanks for the heads up on that by the way.
Edit: Hmm, can't quite get my characters to look right in Charas.
Side note: Why do the light skin parts in Charas greatly exceed the number of darker skin parts (in face parts, it's like 10-1 or worse)? It's annoying, as well as a less than great sign... I'd prefer to make sure not literally every single human character appears to be of the same set of ethnicities for no explicable reason.
Edit: I am going to be getting back into the busy 2/3rds or so of the year, so I’m going to have to start working on my project at different times of the day. This is going to take me some getting used to, so I might not be working on my project as much for the next little while.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 23, 2018, 02:20:10 am
The spheres are a bit weird. Something can be done with them once better support for ghostly enemies is implemented, but I don't think they need that many variations at any rate (it's possible to use custom variables to make different variations of a single class).
The issue with skin color in Charas... Well, there's no real consensus color options in Charas (since each part is made by different people) and adding every variation for every color would be a tremendous number of variations. It's pretty easy to edit the file to change the pallete once you've downloaded it.
Using Paint.NET, you can use the magic wand globally with zero tolerance to select all pixels of a particular color, then use the color filler to change all of those pixels to the color of your choice. Most Charas parts only use 3 colors for skin shades so changing it should be simple.
Don't worry about it. At any rate, I'm going to be starting on my own world once I've got some more sprites drawn up.
Edit: Alternatively , you can use the LPC character generator over here (https://sanderfrenken.github.io/Universal-LPC-Spritesheet-Character-Generator/)... I need to figure out how to handle credits for character generators such as these.
Post by: Kamani on August 23, 2018, 10:20:38 am
I’ll just toss them. They were the first things I made and are no longer needed. If I need better ghostly enemies, I can make new ones later.
That’s fair. I’ll do so.
Same thing with GIMP, conveniently. I’m starting to finally figure out how to actually use it.
Neat! Looking forward to seeing it once it is done.
That one looks niceish, but it has some design I don’t really like, which I seem to recall Chara’s avoids.
Do they have crediting rule guidelines somewhere? I would think Chara’s at least would, since it is a site designed entirely to create characters. Admittedly, they might not anyway, it would just make sense.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 23, 2018, 11:07:46 am
So I looked into Charas-project licensing and it appears that its baseline structure is actually designed for RPG Maker. An older version, but they still maintain the licensing on their artwork. Which means using it is not allowed. I assumed it was open-source.
I really don't like Enterbrain. While an artist is technically allowed to license their original art for whatever purpose they choose, designing a license in a way that both encourages the free creation of derivative art while also ensuring that they maintain control of all said derivatives is...an annoying way of doing things.
LPC at least is open-source, that I'm certain of.
Post by: Kamani on August 23, 2018, 11:17:56 am
I won’t argue with you there. This makes twice that it has messed me up.
Well, guess I’m switching to LPC.
Edit: Ugh, I can't really say I'm fond of a lot of the options available on the LPC creator. Maybe I'll have better luck just looking for NPC sprites on OpenGameArt...
Edit: Shoot, Thaum's art is also from Charas. No clue what would make a good replacement for that...
Edit: Until I can find a proper fix, all of the Thaum art is going to be generic.
Edit: Both Umbra and Thaum's art are now good under use rules, although Thaum's art is (hopefully) highly temporary.
Now I just have to find new Thaum art and find art for every single villager in Unnamed Desert Town (Oh gosh, I'm going to need to do this two to three more times, aren't I? Thank gosh I already decided not to put towns in the most of the tier three trials...).
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 24, 2018, 07:37:49 am
I'm getting a bit better at spriting. It takes a while but I'm rather proud of the results. Maybe I'll make my own character maker at some point...
I'm also making a few minor changes to the player's default combat abilities (largely to reduce the usefulness of spamming the spring jump as an attack). Ideally the dash attack should be for dealing damage, holding the dash attack should be for maximizing damage over time but risks counterattack, and the spring jump should be for hitting flying enemies and also for knocking away an enemy (dash + jump has a nice hit followed up by a knockback inflicting jump attack combo). I'm also adding a spin attack, possibly to replace the spring jump as the ideal means of inflicting knockback when surrounded.
Post by: Kamani on August 24, 2018, 07:59:18 am
I’ve seen what you’ve posted on random things you drew/shopped/made, and those were good. A character maker would also be cool (although I don’t know how long it would take to make all the parts. Probably a while).
Makes sense. Sounds like good changes. I’ll have to take a look once they’re up.
Edit: I'll have to look for some NPC sprites. I saw some skimming through OpenGameArt, so I'll have to take a look and see if there are any that are good for what I am doing...
Edit: Annoying feelings for finding art: Finding some decent sprites, but every single one is in a different file and they all inexplicably have a blue background instead of no background. At least I can edit them to remove that.
Edit: Oh, just realized I have to make cliff transfer tiles between standard and special color desert tiles. I better do that now.
Edit: Hmm... Not sure how to get these to look quite right. I got the basic transfers down, but now the original tiles aren't fitting together super well. The horizontal edges don't fit super well with the vertical edge pieces, so I'll need to figure out what to do about that before I continue further.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 27, 2018, 01:22:47 pm
I do plan on making an enormous and endless desert at some point, so creating a link to a "town" that backlinks to a "desert" would be suitable for that.
Post by: Kamani on August 27, 2018, 04:19:10 pm
Yeah, that sounds neat and should work.
Edit: It occurred to me that, since I will occasionally refer to the player by a pronoun, it should be possible for players to set their own for the Trial Dungeons, to avoid having completely incorrect pronouns (since that is pretty disrespectful), so I added a mediocre settings menu to the core item that allow you to set your preferred pronoun (this was inspired by the game Read Only Memories, although that implements it several thousand times better). I'll need to think of a way to excuse this lorewise if possible, and make the text better (I ended up writing it pretty late at night, and I feel like my writing is currently worse than usual, so I suspect that, when I next look at it, it won't be all that great).
They, she, he, ze, and xe pronouns are going to be used, and I might add custom ones if items get text variables. Hopefully that should cover everyone.
It was a surprisingly large pain, since it involves setting 8 _world variables (possibly more if I need reflexive pronouns too...) and one item variable per pronoun, and I'm going to have to set them at the beginning of every world.
Edit: Shoot, just realized that I'll also have to adjust whether singular or plural words are used (they and is, for example) based on whether they is the active pronoun. Don't have enough time to finish this tonight, so I'll be finishing this tomorrow, probably.
Also, I never realized how weird pronouns are until I had to compare them all. They pronouns have 4 distinct forms, whereas he and she pronouns have three, and although both he and she pronouns have a pronoun used in two situations (his and her respectively), the situations they have one pronoun for aren't the same two. His fills the their and theirs slots, whereas her fills the them and their slots. It doesn't really make any sense.
Side Note: I really should have done this draft style so that a half-finished system didn't end up there... Well, too late now. At least the odds of people messing around with the box in the next day aren't all that great.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 28, 2018, 03:43:10 am
Personally I prefer to just have other characters refer to the player by nicknames, like "Wanderer", "Human", or "Poppet" (that last is going to be the Jester's nickname). Occasionally I use "they" but it's awkward so I try not to do so too often.
I might also use the wer/wif/mann system in a world or two. It sounds weird to modern speakers but I think things would be a lot easier if we brought that back :)
Post by: Kamani on August 28, 2018, 03:54:41 am
Read Only Memories remains the only game I have seen to actually do this really well.
Nicknames would work, but not in every case. People aren’t super likely to say “the (nickname) is over there” instead of “(pronoun) is over there.” They is typically my preferred pronoun for cases of unknowns, but I’d rather allow people the option to choose elsewise (or keep as they, if you prefer it too). I know I hate it when people persistently get it wrong (people referring to groups I am in as boys, for example), so I’d rather not subject other people to that.
Edit: Didn't see that edit before I posted. Which system is the wer/wif/mann system?
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 28, 2018, 02:02:00 pm
Anyway I think that if our society is trying to be more gender-equal than the wer/wif/mann system is a more suitable one, all of the words are one nice clean syllable. "Woman" is an annoying word in this sense since it sounds like "man" is neutral and it's just a modified "man" (there may have been a male equivalent once, but I don't know what it is). And that way we can keep all of those nice and non-awkward terms like "mankind" and "humanity" without them sounding like they are primarily referring to males.
But nobody will ever do that, probably. Still, I'd like to include my own opinions in worlds I make. Cause what's the point of making worlds if you can't express your opinions in them.
(Also this means a "werewolf" is always male - the female should be a "wifewolf".)
EDIT: Looked up the etymology of woman, turns out it just evolved from wif-mann and the male equivalent would be wer-mann. Of course, they both wind up sounding like "woman" once they've been corrupted that far.
Post by: Kamani on August 28, 2018, 02:08:12 pm
Sounds good with me. The current system is a bit strange, and that one would probably be easier for me.
Makes sense. And yeah, major linguistic changes to make things less bad seem to happen basically never.
Fair enough.
Edit: Uh... Where did the memory partitions button for items go? I can't find it, and I think I'm not just foolishly missing it this time (although I wouldn't 100% discount that).
Edit: Other than that, the pronouns system is now fully set up. It doesn't affect anything yet, as the only instance I found where I used a pronoun to refer to the player is in the town dialogue before the box is gotten, but it could come up in the future, and it would be torment to go back and enable it if I did it half way through instead.
I also changed a few pieces of Lusuria dialogue for voice and continuity fixes (for example, Rel and Alan said they were waiting for lunch, but everyone else said they had already eaten. Now Rel and Alan also say the same). I still probably missed some stuff, but it should be better now. Haven't published the changes yet, since I still have to test the pronoun thing, but I will once that's done.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 29, 2018, 02:00:33 am
I do remember there being a few discrepancies in Lusuria when you start out, the sign at the dungeon entry is there even at the beginning (unless you fixed that). You can use the object editor on the player to run tests with different starting parameters.
Post by: Kamani on August 29, 2018, 02:22:07 am
... A. How did I never notice that? B. Why did I use a standard sign for that?
I am utterly confused at past me's actions.
Edit: At least it was an easy fix.
Edit: Okay, all changes should be published. As far as I know, there are no glitches, but I am pretty good at messing up, as far as I can tell.
Edit: Brief note on the Jester in the prison. If you talk to them twice, their turn to face you probably shouldn't repeat, seeing as that just makes them turn right and then face back up. This is still pretty obviously mid-dev, since the King still does things like say "You must tell me your name" no matter what you input, but...
Edit: It occurs to me. If it was possible to save text variables to items, I could also put a name setter for the Trials, just so that people could change what they were called there (since it might be a bit goofy if your username was something entirely un-namelike). As is, I would have to convert each individual letter into a number, and then reconstruct, which would be less than pleasant.
Ugh, I really need to decide what NPC sprites to use already. I suspect that I should use the ones from this pack (https://opengameart.org/content/edited-and-extended-24x32-character-pack), seeing as it has a lot of options, but since I have to individually cut out every single one I want to use, I have to decide on a set, rather than just testing them all.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 29, 2018, 05:38:56 am
I do plan on making an option to save text variables, but the truth is I didn't really intend for characters to use the player's name very much... Making it an option at all was intended more for characters who can break the fourth wall.
Check out any plot-heavy game with both a name input and full voice acting, and you'll be surprised at just how much dialogue you can get away with while never mentioning the protagonist's name.
But at any rate, I'll make it an option.
Post by: Kamani on August 29, 2018, 12:28:12 pm
Yeah, I would think writing in rhyme would get real annoying real fast.
Eh, I’ve already started, and it makes sense in Lusuria (where if you told people that you wanted to be called really anything, they’d accept it), both in that everyone just asks, and that they do know about the spoilers plot stuff.
Yup. I often see them write it in the text, and then say something else. But I’m not voice acting, so I’m not stuck with that rule. Voice acting is completely beyond what I have access to anyway, so...
Okay. Thanks.
Oh, I need to start coming up with characters. Seeing as this is a more... standard, I suppose?, town, I'll need a greater cast, but most of them aren't going to be quite as talkative, in all probability. I am also probably going to use an excuse and say that the player isn't allowed into the main town part of the town with all of the houses.
Although, thinking about it, the people who are more likely to get along with strangers are more likely to be living in the middle of the town, since the people who are less likely to get along with strangers were more likely to have moved away.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 30, 2018, 02:25:50 am
I mean the only time you really need to say someone's name is to get their attention or to talk about them when they are not present, so it really depends on the story you are telling... I mainly intended for the player to usually be a generic "everyman", a catalyst and a spectator who is just kind of there while the actual plot mainly happens to other people. But we'll see how that evolves.
You can use the Last Guardian npc for generic townsfolk, or at least as a placeholder until you find more high-quality sprites. Generally a game town doesn't need that many houses or people though.
I notice you like to set up towns symmetrically. While this is not exactly bad, placing features a bit more randomly can look more visually interesting.
Post by: Kamani on August 30, 2018, 02:38:41 am
Undertale does handle that in quite and interesting way. Probably the only game I’ve seen do that. Edit: Not counting Amnesia plot lines. Plus, it effectively handles players who try to choose the name to make it the same as the real name pretty well.
Spoiler: Grand Trials Spoilers (click to show/hide)
Symmetry is something of a bad habit of mine. I just like how it looks. But it’s important to try different things, so I’ll give it a shot next time I make a town.
Edit: Town is on hold for one more day, because I'd like to talk to someone I know about relevant topics so that I can not mess it up.
Edit: So instead I made some more minor tileset edits to add pieces that I need. Still looks bad, but it looks better than it would otherwise. So, I guess, good?
Edit: Looks like I need another thing this doesn't come with. This tileset has a lot of holes...
Edit: Thinking on it, I decided to do it this way so I could do it lazily and spend less time doing tileset modification which I am pretty bad at. I think I'm bad at this whole laziness thing. I mean, this is far less work than actually making a tileset, but I was just planning on doing a bit of colorization.
Edit: Wonder how many tilesets you can have in a room/world at once before loading and lag start to get painful... Seeing as I'll be using like 30 tilesets, I might be running into that... Maybe I can find a more efficient way to handle this? Anyways, think I have everything I need for the tileset, so that's probably finally good. For now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 31, 2018, 03:39:38 am
Have you considered using a white-and-transparent mask layer tileset? Using plain white squares, some colorization, and possibly an alternate composite operation or semi-transparency you can probably just use one extra tileset for each color, and then use that as an overlay over the regular tiles. I'm not exactly sure what you're doing but I'm guessing that would probably be easier than whatever method you have planned.
Post by: Kamani on August 31, 2018, 10:52:35 am
Although doing it that way would make infinitely more sense, certain pieces of the tileset don’t fit together the way I need them to, so I made modified versions. Doing semi-transparent white squares probably would have made infinitely more sense though. Unfortunately, at this point, I actually have everything set up, and it would probably take me longer to set it up to work that way. Good idea for next time though.
Edit: Going to end up doing starting the town tomorrow because I was busy today. At least I can work on the dungeon still. Even if I am doing it an unnecessarily complicated way.
Edit: Hey, wait, with how I'm doing the inactive tiles, I don't need to make an inactive tileset for every one. That subtracts my needless tileset count by 4. Wooh.
Edit: Wonder how much trouble I'm going to run into with enemies being on red/blue tiles when they become inactive...
Edit: Prototype Droom1 is done (not counting the second time it'll be pathed through while on the blue path). If you've got time, could you tell me if it looks okay? I know it works pretty well function-wise (except that I temporarily disabled the switcher requiring the player to have an item for testing), besides the potential issue listed above, but I am not really the best judge of aesthetics. It doesn't have to look perfect, since I am developing this with only free tilesets and no art abilities, but it should look okay at least.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 01, 2018, 12:18:37 pm
Almost figured out the string storage function. Do note that it will consume 16 bits per character. But hey, if you want it...
Post by: Kamani on September 01, 2018, 03:59:37 pm
Okay. Thanks. I guess I might need to make a separate item for highly specialty settings, just in case. Oh, but are there any ways to make a letter limit on text input? Either way, I can’t let things get too long. Otherwise, they’ll make text boxes look bad.
Edit: Didn’t end up getting anything done because I thought I’d spend a few minutes finishing up some work and it accidentally took two hours. Oops. Sorry about that.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 02, 2018, 02:51:18 pm
Post by: Kamani on September 02, 2018, 11:33:11 pm
Edit: I organized this post to make it more readable (and to make it obvious what is actually important, and not just miscellaneous notes). It was starting to go on, and I figured it would be less of a pain to read this way.
(Potential) Bugs:
- Some of the menus get cut off on my screen. For example, the text editor menu gets cut off at Textbox Shadow Blur when the first tab is open, and it isn't possible to scroll down below that. The opacity on tilesets also gets partially cut off, although clicking on that fixes it (I've seen the opacity issue before, although I forgot to mention it, but the other one is new to me). This can prevent some settings from being used, and is thus a sizeable issue.
- Where did the reply variable setting setting go? I can't find it. I might just be missing it (or it could be because of the previously mentioned scrolling issues), but I don't see the setting that saves the reply text to a given variable.
- You can edit the numbers of characters on a partition, even if there is another partition after it. I don't know if that would also break things, but it might, since editing bit numbers would.
- It appears that the Bits Remaining is displaying only for the one I'm currently editing. Is it supposed to do that or not? I am not really sure, but it does make it a bit tricky to know what's left.
- It seems like you can edit some stuff that isn't normally possible by using tab. If I hit the tab key several times while in the flowchart menu, I can edit things like the title of the world or the name of an object. I don't really know if this could do anything problematic, but I figured it was better to be careful and note it than ignore it.
Non-glitch Questions:
- Is there any way to capitalize the first letter of a text variable without otherwise changing it? I'll probably wait to consider custom pronouns if no, since otherwise, that might run into a bit of trouble. Of course, I don't have to worry about bits on this item, so if I just made them retype for capitals, that would probably work too, I'd just prefer not to inconvenience users. Inconveniencing myself is more optimal, under the conditions and based on numbers.
Notes:
- Seeing as there are 4032 bits on an item, and adding a name variable (12 characters long, since I suspect that is the longest I'd be likely to run into in a majority of situations) will move my current count up to about 247, I should be good without adding a second item. I might add an optional second item for custom pronouns, because pronouns could take up a LOT of space (they, a standard length pronoun with 5 forms (they, them, their, theirs, themselves) would take up 464 bits. If I wanted to give enough for nearly any situation, I would have to give something like 10, 10, 10, 10, 13 characters, which would take up 848 bits. I would rather not lose that much space, since I don't know how much I'll end up needing). In addition, deleting one of the two items without the other wouldn't cause the entire project to break, which would be something to worry about with having a two item system. I think I'll probably handle that as such.
- I am going to redo the Sculptor boss fight, since they are getting moved up to full mid-boss from mini-boss. I think they'll retain their unusually passive skill set though, since they are the Sculptor, not a standard fighter. That, and it should mix up the types of bosses fought more. I'll probably want to make the boss fight a bit longer and with a few more unique skills too. Might take me a bit to figure out how to do this well...
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 03, 2018, 04:22:49 am
Unless your plan is to let the player independently input all possible conjugations of their preferred pronoun, which sounds more like a parody of modern political correctness culture than something a typical player would actually appreciate.
There aren't really any methods for string manipulation yet, but I wouldn't worry about capitalization. Just inserting a name as it is entered is sufficient for every game I have ever seen.
Odd about the menus getting cut off, they should be scrollable. I'll check it in different browsers maybe...
I'll fix up the other stuff. Changing the number of characters in a non-last partition will cause issues with existing saved data, so don't do that. Tabbing to other windows is a bit odd but I don't think it will cause actual problems.
Edit: Ok, all of those bugs are fixed.
Post by: Kamani on September 03, 2018, 09:42:05 am
I’ll admit it’s a niche addition, but adding a custom pronoun set would allow me to cover every pronoun, without adding an incredibly long list. Most players can just pick from the standard 5 (they, she, he, xe, ze), but for this, I’d rather give an option than leave it out.
Oh, no, the capitalization question is for custom pronouns, not a name.
Thanks for all of the bug fixes.
Edit: Issue with reply references solved, but only because I found another issue. You can't use a text input reply when you are in a flowchart textbox, since you can only use replies by using Add Option. You can workaround this, but it is preferable to not do so.
Edit: Name system is in place. It should work fine, as far as I know, but I can't be entirely sure.
Edit: Hmm... Hope making every desert room persistent won't cause lag. I can probably set it up to work without needing it, but I'd prefer not too. I guess I'll just test it out and see what happens.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 03, 2018, 11:41:25 pm
There are a few issues with Spids by the way, seems you forgot to set the Face Player variable. I also saw them charge attack off the screen once and not come back. This may be related, or it may be because the target projectile moves too fast. I'll have to check.
Post by: Kamani on September 03, 2018, 11:47:46 pm
Oops. Should have known I was forgetting something. I’ll have to check Umbra too. Not sure how they could charge off the screen though... the projectile should run into a wall and break whether it is facing the player or not. Unless it somehow got fired past the boundaries... I’ll set the blank tiles there to walls when I get some time. That should fix it either way.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 06, 2018, 07:41:01 am
If that was a bug, I still have the backup and can restore it. If not, I might just steal it. That was some fine work and it would be a shame to waste it.
I still don't know who they are.
EDIT: Oh, they made an OpenGameArt account.
Post by: Kamani on September 06, 2018, 09:08:33 am
If it’s a bug, good that it can be restored.
I can’t really tell if that last bit was intended as humor or not, but stealing someone’s content would be incredibly rude. People really should have control over their own creative content. I’m terrible at understanding humor, to be clear, so... I really can’t tell if you are being serious or not. Apologies if that was intended as humor.
Eh, we’ll know or we won’t. Que será será and all that. But whatever. If Kiovenn isn’t going to be blatant, then I’m not going to bother them or try to figure it out.
Okay.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 06, 2018, 11:44:39 am
Post by: Kamani on September 06, 2018, 12:22:07 pm
Edit: I may not be on BoundWorlds much for the next twoish weeks. I have gotten far more busy than expected with this set of college classes, and until I get more in order for that, I’m not going to have time for much else. Sorry. Bright side is that I don’t think the dungeon will take too much longer when I can get back to it, based on what’s done of it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 07, 2018, 08:04:47 am
Trying to write a plot is hard. I've basically got this whole set of notes on particular scenes I want to happen but not much to tie them together in a logical way. I guess I can always start with the big twists first and fill them in later...
Post by: Kamani on September 07, 2018, 08:56:53 am
Yeah, plots can be tricky. I had to come up with one recently for my creative writing class, and that took me a while. Plus, it turns out I can usually only think of plots in the middle of the night. Not sure why.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 07, 2018, 05:56:43 pm
Eh, don't worry about it. I've been rather busy myself.
Trying to write a plot is hard. I've basically got this whole set of notes on particular scenes I want to happen but not much to tie them together in a logical way. I guess I can always start with the big twists first and fill them in later...
Research the 3-Act Structure and Dan Harmon's Story Circle. It's very difficult to write anything cohesive without a plan, so my advice is to use the aforementioned structures to outline the plot.
Also do some research on world building, consider the history of your universe/multiverse, make a map, etc. etc.
Finally, since Boundworlds has the potential to be so vast and nebulous, consider the major players in the story. What are their character spines--the thing that drives them? And how have their inevitably clashing wants and needs created this situation that the players find themselves in?
It might be best to keep the actual plot simple and save all those ideas for scenes and lore to insert into the game later for the players to find (Which is what Hollow Knight does)
@Kamani, if you want to come up with a draft of a plot really quickly, write down a bunch of things, characters, and actions you want to include in your story on notecards and lay them out, start rearranging them and you will find the story being outlined in front of your eyes.
Post by: Kamani on September 07, 2018, 07:40:34 pm
I’ll remember that for if I do run into trouble with that though. Might come in handy.
Edit: My Sculptor golem boss has inexplicably lost all of the skills I gave them. This isn't a huge loss, since I needed to redo them anyway, but it is probably best that it is figured out why, if possible, so it can be prevented from occurring. Might be a bug, might be my own fault. Just noting this in case I run into a similar issue in the future.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 08, 2018, 12:34:22 pm
Maybe a few isolated "short stories" would work better. Sort of like Live A Live, a Square game from the early SNES era. Or maybe Octopath Traveler, which I hear is a kind of spiritual successor to Live A Live. Maybe I should look that up for inspiration.
A three-act structure... hm, that could work. Actually making the game resemble a stage play could be an interesting angle for other reasons, since there's already a character who acts like he's in a stage play...
Edit: My Sculptor golem boss has inexplicably lost all of the skills I gave them. This isn't a huge loss, since I needed to redo them anyway, but it is probably best that it is figured out why, if possible, so it can be prevented from occurring. Might be a bug, might be my own fault. Just noting this in case I run into a similar issue in the future.
I've checked in on it a couple of times, and I've never seen any techniques on the Sculptor. I thought you hadn't started.
Post by: Kamani on September 08, 2018, 12:45:14 pm
I’ve been watching someone play through Octopath Traveler (although I’m far from seeing the end). Based on a very brief read through of Live A Live, I could the similarities. Seems like a decent game so far, as well.
Sounds like a neat idea.
Huh. I had given them a rock toss, golem summon, and an auto healing based on delayed objects that could be destroyed. I guess I must have forgot to save. Shoot.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 08, 2018, 04:19:16 pm
I mean... it does seem like quite a challenge to write a story when you literally have no idea what the characters are going to do and where they're going to go. Or even who some of the central characters are going to be, I guess.
Just an idea (idk, there are probably other ways to look at it), but it seems like you kinda have two ways you could approach it, you could just like give players a primer on the lore and let them decide how they incorporate it into their worlds (and hope some homestuck level of story tangle develops), or have some kind of meta plot that can happen no matter where you are. IDK.
Post by: Kamani on September 08, 2018, 11:53:51 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 09, 2018, 12:30:17 am
I mean this is just how I think, but even if the average player is NOT going to be aware of 99% of what's going on you should at least have an outline for yourself. Also, getting world builders to meaningful contribute to the story can be decidedly difficult. I see that the task of creating a story that is idiot/troll proof is kinda tough.
I mean... it does seem like quite a challenge to write a story when you literally have no idea what the characters are going to do and where they're going to go. Or even who some of the central characters are going to be, I guess.
Just an idea (idk, there are probably other ways to look at it), but it seems like you kinda have two ways you could approach it, you could just like give players a primer on the lore and let them decide how they incorporate it into their worlds (and hope some homestuck level of story tangle develops), or have some kind of meta plot that can happen no matter where you are. IDK.
When I'm talking about the story, I'm talking about the story for the world that I'm building, not the meta-lore. As far as meta-lore is concerned, there are some things for players to build off of (I've built a few small worlds like the Library to help give players a primer on that), but it's all fairly generic and easy to build off of. (There are many worlds, the Void is the place between worlds, magic comes from the Void, people exposed to the Void sometimes turn into monsters but not always.)
There are no real central characters to the multiverse as a whole aside from the player, although it is possible to create "public" characters using the package system. I can make, for example, a wandering merchant that sells particular items, or a particular enemy, and other people can just drop them into their world as they like. Other players can also create these. It's meant to be very flexible.
As for my own world's story, I do have a fairly good idea about the major characters and their plot developments. It's the padding, the space in between the major developments, that it tends to fall short. You can't just go from major plot twist to major plot twist without having anything in between.
Post by: Kamani on September 09, 2018, 02:01:18 am
It seems to have stopped doing it now, but I don't really know why, as I didn't change the shake effect.
I'll tell you if I see it again I guess? I was getting it repeatedly, so I thought I'd be able to give a set of actions that led to the occurrence, but that seems to be impossible.
Oh, also, if an object's animation frame would change at the same time as it would die from lifespan, you can see the frame switch over for just an instant before it actually dies. I don't know if this is intentional or not, so I figured I would check. I need to know so I can set up my animation vs. lifespan timing.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 09, 2018, 03:37:38 am
Let me know if you figure out how to reproduce the shake effect glitch. If it appears to freeze but allows you to open up the menu and then updates everything at once, it's probably a Javascript issue.
Post by: Kamani on September 09, 2018, 03:40:01 am
Oh, so that is what causes those freezes? Never knew. But no, this one alternated like a half second of total freezing and a half second of working fine. Anyways, I’ll tell you if I figure out how to recreate it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 14, 2018, 07:28:58 am
I'm also making an experimental day and night cycle as an object. This will probably be released as a package.
Post by: Kamani on September 14, 2018, 08:43:45 am
Also neat.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 14, 2018, 09:13:40 am
Post by: Kamani on September 14, 2018, 09:26:07 am
Glad that the bug got fixed.
I feel like you mentioned _game._clock a long time ago, but not recently.
Maybe I’ll use the clock to make some alternate Lusuria inn conversation groups post dungeon. Not as something required, just as a thing for people who replayed the dungeon for other reasons. Either that or I could random it. I’ll think about it once Desert is done.
Edit: The odd glitch relating to the game alternating freezing and then unfreezing in like 20ish frame sections that I thought was related to shaking isn't actually related to shaking. It just happened for no apparent reason when I started testing Droom3's entry object, and, on an identical tests, it didn't reoccur. Unfortunately, I don't have any idea of why it occurs, seeing as the situations it has occurred in don't really have anything in common. I am completely lost on this one.
Edit: Many attempts later, for no apparent reason, it happened again. Still no ideas.
Also, I'm having a bit of a tough time with the already mentioned entry object. As far as I can tell, the Droom3FirstTimeCheck object should be changing the opacity smoothly during each loop for spawning and despawning each version, but instead, only the first fades in, and the others just switch over instantly (even before I added the set to 1/set to 0s). They are all set up the same, but it seems like the waits after the first are being ignored. Any clue what could be wrong? I don't really know if I just made a mistake or if there is something else going on, but I can't figure it out either way, so I could use the assistance if possible.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 15, 2018, 12:39:02 pm
That other bug seems odd. I guess I'll have to run some tests of my own. Is it possible that it's related to having two cutscenes active at once?
Post by: Kamani on September 15, 2018, 12:45:36 pm
Can’t be because of cutscenes. Last time I got it, it was during miniboss testing, and I hadn’t added a cutscene to that at all yet (and the room, as far as I know, was otherwise empty). It seems to be happening unreliably and with no obvious links between cases. I really don’t get this one. Most other things at least can be easily reproduced. Ugh.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 15, 2018, 12:55:07 pm
Post by: Kamani on September 15, 2018, 12:56:28 pm
Edit: Got the bug, but the console had several unrelated errors, and I didn't know what was linked with what, so I couldn't figure out anything about it. This time, I'm just keeping it open to see what happens as I edit. Oddly enough, every time I type in a character in any (forgetting the word, the stuff in the object menu like Hitbox Radius, opacity, combat stats, etc.) an error pops up. Doesn't actually seem to do anything, so meaningless, I guess.
Edit: Potential version of the golem boss is done. Don't know if I'll keep it, but it is definitely a possibility. Beyond that, finished up tilesets and cutscene in Droom3.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 16, 2018, 07:50:49 am
I've added some new functions for gates; you can now go through a layer's gate list and read their _tpos and _tsize (tile position and tile size) and also turn them on and off using _active, or activate them automatically by setting _triggered to 1. These are mostly pointless except when making an exportable object that interacts with gates, which is what I did. I made a package called Void Portal, it lets you make a cool Chrono Trigger inspired portal effect over a regular gate that expands when the player walks nearby and "swallows" the player when they walk over it. Could be nice for gates that you want to just appear in the middle of the air or whatever. I might make some additional options for custom portal backgrounds and such.
Post by: Kamani on September 16, 2018, 10:15:16 am
Although I think I already do have a cloud of dust effect for Earthquake. Maybe I need to make it more visible? I suppose sand colored on sand colored would be tricky.
Either way, I’ll definitely add the others.
Sounds neat. I’ll have to take a look when I can.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 16, 2018, 11:50:51 pm
Post by: Kamani on September 16, 2018, 11:55:04 pm
I’ll probably change the pre-attack dust cloud too. Seems off that it looks like it is being sucked in.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 17, 2018, 12:45:01 pm
You can also select the "Picky Trader" option, which will prevent the trader from buying any items they do not sell. (You can get them to buy items by putting an item in their inventory but setting its quantity to 0.) This is probably recommended if you want to have control over your custom currency.
Post by: Kamani on September 17, 2018, 10:36:52 pm
Makes sense.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 18, 2018, 07:35:55 am
I've been seeing the bug you were talking about. Seems to happen mainly after editing things... I'll see if I can figure out what causes it.
Post by: Kamani on September 18, 2018, 03:09:29 pm
I mostly edit, so it makes sense it would mostly show up then. Hope that solution-finding goes well.
Edit: The Sculptor now has some attack animations. Oddly enough, I could have sworn the one for Sculpt Golem was working, but now it is. Well, never look a gift horse in the mouth I guess. They aren't super great, but I believe they should do for now.
A good portion of the dungeon is actually done, thinking about it. Not a terrible rate of progress, all things considered. This is roughly my 1.5th month of work, so this is an acceptable rate (I apparently started the desert around the end of July). The town will probably take a while, as usual, since I apparently don't really know when to stop when it comes to dialogue. It might have a bit less than Lusuria though, since Lusuria is a bit more involved in the Trials, as well as a fair number of people in Lusuria would be completely cool with a random stranger walking up to them and engaging them in conversation.
Edit: It occurs to me that this dungeon is missing something important. I completely forgot secret rooms. Maybe one for backtracking after activating the sand statues? I'll need to correct this.
Edit: Okay, this is an odd one. Whenever I change the position of the Sculptor boss, it moves back (to a place I don't want it) when I reload the room. Any clue what could be wrong (don't even know which end this one's on, so...)?
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 19, 2018, 03:55:07 pm
The boss feels good, though could still use a bit of polish (EarthquakeWarn as a slow implosion, followed by EarthquakeHit as a fast explosion looks good).
I've fixed up a few things with large numbers of effects on-screen; now sprites with "Is Effect" checked should cause much less slowdown. Still haven't figured out the stattaco framerate bug, though I am slowly tracking it down. Since it only shows up on rare occasions, testing is tricky.
I should mention that objects in the foreground always appear over objects in the main layer, which can cause some weirdness when spring-jumping in front of them (for example, the cactuses). Mostly I've been handling this by making small, stationary objects into sprites, this is the reason for the above (if you make them Effects and then use a solid tile to block them off, they cause much less slowdown). I would like to figure out if there's a solution for objects such as these in other games... 16-bit RPGs had it easier by just not allowing the player to jump too high.
I've decided to make my story a bit more broken up, instead of putting it all into one single world. After all, BoundWorlds' demonstration story should probably include the idea of travelling between worlds in it. I'm still going to be keeping the same main characters, but they will each have their own world, with the final world being unlocked after the others are completed.
Spoiler: Story plans so far (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on September 19, 2018, 09:10:25 pm
I thought I had set face rather than use a walk this time?
Thanks. I’ll try it.
Makes sense.
Yeah, I know. The problem is, if I make them sprites, than if you stand behind them and walk all the way down, you end up places over them. I don’t really know what the optimal solution for this one is.
Makes sense. I like the stories’ concepts,and I look forward to trying them once they are complete.
Edit: Very odd glitch. I place The Sculptor at 256, 256, test the room, and they've moved to 272, 272. When I return to editing mode, they are still at 272, 272. I have no clue why this keeps happening, but I've tried placing new copies, exiting and leaving the world, and rebooting the entirety of BoundWorlds, so I am really at my wits end on this one. Any clue what could be wrong?
Edit: I really need to find a sandstorm animation for the tile swappers. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one on OpenGameArt, so that makes it a bit tough. I need to find for the right pattern and than just repeat it using a top layer with the pattern as a background, but I really can't draw, and I don't know what sandstorms actually look like, so...
Edit: I guess I'll put death checkpoints at start, The Sculptor's fight DroomPostMB, and Autem's fight. Annoyingly enough, because of how two rooms are gone through twice at different times, I'll have to make them work by variables.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 21, 2018, 07:26:09 am
I plan on making a sand storm area myself, so I'll probably add a graphic for that anyway.
I also need to come up with a solution for checkpoints and saving in larger worlds. The main intent of the "death gate" was less of a gamey respawn point and more like a place where you get rescued or captured, so it doesn't handle things like rolling back items all that well.
Edit: It looks like any fog or cloud foreground, colored yellow and moving at a high speed, makes a pretty fair sandstorm effect. You can then make a few copies of the layer with slightly different speeds to make it look more dynamic.
Post by: Kamani on September 21, 2018, 07:32:02 am
Oh. Convenient. Thanks. I guess I’ll just wait on that one.
Makes sense. I’m just going to end up working around it with variables, but it would probably be more convenient in general working differently.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 21, 2018, 08:08:05 am
I've added a purple fog graphic which can also double up as a nice sandstorm layer when colored yellow. You can experiment with flashes and composite options to find what works best. By the way, flashes with all timers set to 0 now act as static color layers which can be modified or destroyed using functions.
Post by: Kamani on September 21, 2018, 08:48:04 am
Double thanks. Both the fog and the flash changes should be helpful.
Edit: I'm not going to be able to respond to messages very reliably or quickly for the next few days. Preemptive apologies about that. Technical difficulties with my typical system. Annoying, but nothing I can do about it for now.
Edit: I really have to wonder why past me created a complicated "lag prevention" no switch variable. It caused a pretty terrible problem before I realized it was both the core problem and totally useless.
Edit: Hmm... I wonder if I should reduce the difficulty a bit. It seems a bit extreme right now, since this is a relatively early dungeon. Of course, players will have the checkpoints and the full heals, but I know all of the patterns of enemies, so...
Edit: I'm getting an excess time in loops error on the red blue swapper. I just added the sandstorm added layer effect, but there aren't actually any loops on it, so I'm a bit mystified on this. Any clue what could be wrong here? I don't know if I just messed up, but I checked a bunch, and I don't have any loops as far as I see, so I could use some assistance seeing where.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 23, 2018, 04:54:02 am
One way of handling difficulty is to add occasional healing areas that the player can backtrack to if they need it; experienced players can get through without backtracking. This works best when the rooms are persistent.
Since the blind effect doesn't transfer properly between rooms (it would be tricky to make that work) the sand coating effect probably shouldn't either.
I'd also suggest making the smaller tile details (like the two small rocks) not solid, since they don't look like they should be.
Post by: Kamani on September 24, 2018, 11:01:58 pm
Edit: It works fine. I have no clue why.
I’ll do that. Thank you. Rooms are persistent, but they reset when you die, so that should work fine.
Oh, yeah, right. Forgot to make that change. Thanks.
Yeah, that is a good idea. I’ll do so. Thanks.
Also, the issue with me not being able to get notified about posts here are going to be active for longer than I thought. 5 days, to be precise. Turns out the enter system falls apart if one thing breaks. Apologies about that.
Edit: Ugh, looks like I might end up making another tileset change. The tiles on the mid platform on the left in the boss room don't shade from light to dark because I am using them a bit outside of standard use, and they look awful. Well, that's life. Bright side is that I have the framework for the tileset changes there, and it should look pretty neat.
Also, I really need to start writing down what I was doing when I stopped. I have the nagging feeling that I started something and then left it half done. Well, hopefully, I'll notice sooner or later.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 28, 2018, 10:00:26 am
I'm wondering if I should implement a built-in party system. Some of the worlds I'm building involve allies alongside the avatar, which may or may not be playable themselves. I guess it's a question of whether the player's role is to be a "spectator" for other characters' stories, or if there could be a justification for playing as them directly. People will probably want to make worlds where you play as a different character, so there should probably be an in-game explanation for how that works...
There also has to be more done on how the inventory will be handled. Right now, leaving a non-persistent room after switching characters effectively destroys the original avatar and makes them inaccessible until a new world is loaded. While leaving the world reverts the player back to the original avatar, it is not possible to directly access their inventory otherwise, meaning it is not possible to save any actions that occur after "losing" the avatar using mementos.
I guess the solution would be to store unloaded sprites as a variable in "abstract space" and allow a function to recreate them in a newly loaded room, but that would be fairly advanced stuff that would preclude switching to a new character until the world builder had a solid grasp on how functions worked.
Post by: Kamani on September 28, 2018, 01:55:55 pm
A built-in party system would be neat. Don't really know if there is any decent justification for directly swapping characters in game (although that logical oversight is one that a lot of games do, so I don't know if it is quite as bad. Would still be cool to have lore justification though), but it would be cool.
Yeah, that could be problematic.
That would probably be useful for things outside of character switching too, thinking about it. But yeah, it would also probably be pretty tricky for new world builders (I suppose I have the advantage of hearing about everything as it is added).
I really need to get to work on the town already. I've been putting that off to work on the dungeon for weeks. Thinking about that, I did that for the pre-restart version of Lusuria too. Well, I should probably do the next dungeon the same way I did the second incarnation of Lusuria, since that one was better than the first anyway. Possibly exempting the first dungeon floor, which I seem to recall I felt like Lusuria one did a bit better on.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 29, 2018, 01:13:21 pm
Spoiler: Some fun stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on September 29, 2018, 07:07:11 pm
I’ve finally got everything working again, so I will respond at a more normal speed for me from now on.
Edit: Seems like the boss entrance cutscene is good. I think I'll be adding some attacks from Hiekka to the battle (you don't have to attack them, they'll just perform occasional attacks to make life harder. This will probably replace the summoning sand dragons ability).
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 02, 2018, 10:23:26 am
Spoiler: Slightly spoilery (click to show/hide)
I'm also considering the possibility of making objects with -1 gravity "stick" to the floor except when using a programmed jump or dash, and making this the default for objects. Sometimes enemies with 0 gravity get stuck in the air, generally when targeting the player while they are jumping. Hmm... or maybe I should just fix up vertical targeting so that objects travel in a straight line by default, then they won't get stuck unless something else moves their vertical position.
EDIT: I fixed up some issues with the "Aim at Target" event. Using horizontal and vertical spread should work correctly now; setting vertical spread to 0 will force the next dash or projectile to go in a straight line, and default melee attacks now use this to minimize the risk of objects floating in the air. I also made it possible to save an aimed position as a variable so it may be referenced later.
EDIT: I'm doing some server updates, so BoundWorlds might not run for a few hours. EDIT2: It's back up.
Post by: Kamani on October 06, 2018, 01:17:20 am
Spoiler: Spoilery Responses (click to show/hide)
Seems like that would work well.
Saving an aimed position as a variable should come in handy, and fixes are always great.
Edit: Projectiles seem to be facing in odd directions when fired. I have face enemies set to true on my DragonLanded, but even though the projectiles are moving in the right directions, they are facing arbitrary ones (and I made sure face was working on the projectile too). Any clue what is up? It is likely I just messed something up, but I can't figure out what.
The boss seems to be doing okay. It should be medium easy, which it may or may not be? Hard to tell, since I know all its moves.
Edit: Hmm... Need to find out how long it takes to play through the dungeon. Well, at least I have it set up for that now.
Ugh, I don't feel like this Trial is quite as good as Lusuria. Which stinks, because I actually like the concept of this one quite a bit. I just don't feel like it has turned out as well.
Ah well. Can't really do much about that now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 06, 2018, 04:03:04 pm
As for the trial's overall quality, Lusuria had a lot more variation between rooms, while this one pretty much uses a single gimmick the whole way through. While building a dungeon around a single main gimmick is common practice, all the rooms have basically the same structure the whole way through, which feels less interesting. Maybe instead of just having a grid of identical plateaus, you can join some of them together and put something unique in the larger space?
Post by: Kamani on October 06, 2018, 08:20:47 pm
Yeah. Ugh, maybe I'll end up restarting on this. I'd rather not, but I also don't want to create an inferior product. I was originally going to do a cooler, more complicated setup, but I couldn't figure out a good way to keep track of everything, so I didn't end up doing that way. Originally, I was going to have a two-layer system in which activating a path on one later would block it for the other. This would also mean that I wasn't stuck doing this plateau system. In retrospect, I really should have gone with that, despite it being harder to track. Hmm... not sure what to do here.
Edit: Hmm. Looking at it again, changing it so that it isn't just perfectly samey plateau, but more irregular shapes might work just fine.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 07, 2018, 02:52:34 pm
I should also point out that for custom dashes, if you don't restrict vertical spread to 0 during aiming, the user can jump up while using them while the player is jumping. If they have no gravity set this will cause them to hover in the air. This happens with the scorpion, and possibly others. This does not happen with default melee attacks (which automatically constrain vertical spread). I don't think I'll make -1 gravity the default; at least if there's a zero-gravity problem it's easy to see the error, so this will just be something that people who make custom techs have to learn.
Post by: Kamani on October 07, 2018, 08:52:59 pm
Oops again. I better fix that one too. I’ll fix that.
Edit: Both bosses now auto heal, and the shapes in Drooms 1 and 2 are changed (I have to think a bit on how to handle three). Still not really as great as they could be, or as Lusuria, but it is a bit better, at least. Also, 0 vertical spread is now the standard for the Desert enemies. I checked the Lusuria enemies just to be sure, and they're also still good.
Any recommendations on how to handle droom3 (the biggest one)? Because of how packed it is, it's a little harder to just make things irregular, but it is a bit dull as is)
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 09, 2018, 07:05:19 am
Spoiler: Suggestions on the desert dungeon (click to show/hide)
Continuing on the Realm of the Tower (I haven't come up with a good name for it yet) I came up with an idea for designing the world as a whole. I'm writing up a large number of sidequests that give you a "Soul Shard" as a reward, and then constructing the world around that list - every major structure will be either related to the main plot or have a Shard associated with it. This will help me fill out the world in between the main quest points and ensure that every area has some reason for players to explore them. There will be 108 Shards in total, and can also be used to purchase some unique items in a special shop, as well as unlocking a secret area for finding them all.
Post by: Kamani on October 09, 2018, 01:43:39 pm
Spoiler: Suggestion Responses (click to show/hide)
That sounds super neat. Looking forward to that.
I think I'll be removing Thaum's quest. It doesn't fit in with what I have going for Lusuria, so it won't work well. Thaum will still show up, although possibly elsewhere, and might even give a different quest, but the current one just isn't what I want to be in Lusuria.
Edit: Finished up the map of the new version of the dungeon. Seeing as I'll be recreating it from scratch (the dungeon portion. The bosses will be staying as is, excepting a single change to the Sculptor Boss Fight room), this might take a while, but I think it should turn out well. There are going to be four Sand Statues, so they'll spread out better.
Edit: More tileset editing! Ugh, I should have thought ahead better...
This would be a lot less annoying if I thought anyone else would really have any use of this or that I would use it in the future.
Edit: Does Droom1's new outline look alright? If it does, I'll be good to finish off the rest of it and get the dungeon all finished.
Also, is there a way to change something's image? I looked at an object's variable menu, and _image just says [object Object], and changing it does nothing. Although I can work around this pretty easily, I realized this would be a good thing to know for both this and for other work.
Oh, but I'll have to make another edited tile, while I'm thinking about it...
Edit: Edited tiles stitched together and used (they turned out pretty well, too. Using this tileset for things that it really wasn't designed for has improved my ability to do stupid stuff like this dramatically. Now things can do normal turns instead of the goofy double turns I was using before. Well, at least I've gained potentially useful skills out of my dubious decision in tilesets).
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 17, 2018, 02:32:16 am
You can use the _frame_offset to pack multiple graphical variations into a single file and switch between them freely, provided the variants are placed one on top of the other. The Last Guardian NPC and spider graphics are set up this way. The Strange Dragon monsters sort of are but since they are arranged horizontally it can get weird if the frame offset is too high.
I may make an option to copy one objects' entire graphic data, including animations, onto another. But this is not an option yet.
The new room 1 looks better, more "natural" than before. Should turn out nicely.
Post by: Kamani on October 17, 2018, 03:51:24 pm
Okay. Thanks. Good to know.
Okay.
Great! Thanks. I’ll get working on the rest then.
Edit: Adding a fair number more tiles. I really need to learn when to quit. One more set to do tomorrow before I get back to Droom1's details.
Also, I need to look into colorblind accessibility for this.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 19, 2018, 05:33:08 am
I did a run through Lusuria again, trying to see it as a first time player. The hidden areas are really well done now that I think about it. The implication that there is something more tragic behind the scenes meshes with the music to produce a rather subtle vibe that raises intrigue as far as the whole plot is concerned. There are some things that can use a bit of polish (mostly things I added after it was already done, like text box typing and character "voices"), but on the whole it's quite good. The town should really have at least some music though.
Spids needs the "face target" boxes checked though. There's a game breaking bug that happens on very rare occasions where the line charge sends Spids off the screen completely, causing him to disappear, but facing targets seems to prevent it...I think. It's pretty rare so it's hard to be certain.
I made a open demo for one area I'm making, since it's more or less self-contained for now - Akashmandir, the Mountain City, to the East of the Tower. The "flavors" for the four worlds are Eastern (Tibetian), Northern (Nordic), Western (Standard European fantasy), and Southern (some kind of desert Near Eastern flavor, ancient Persia or something, I don't know). I'm kind of building them all at once. The Tower itself might have its own town, maybe modern or futuristic, but I haven't started with that yet.
EDIT: I added a few new text tags to make handling text boxes easier. [wait=30] simply pauses the typing for the designated number of frames, much more convenient for pauses in speech than messing around with [speed] tags. [next] clears the text box after hitting space and then continues typing, allowing you to make multiple text boxes in a single event. This also allows you to create multiple text boxes in the basic player interaction text. Unlike other tags, these do not require a closing tag.
Post by: Kamani on October 20, 2018, 12:44:27 am
Oh. I totally forgot that I hadn’t put in music for Lusuria town. I had been looking for the right song, if I recall, and then I totally forgot that I had. Oops. Thanks, I’ll put something in as soon as I get my WiFi back up (at least my phone still works for replies).
Edit: Hey, it's back. Weird. Rebooting the modem didn't work, but I guess it just fixed itself. Well, if it works, good enough, I guess.
Thanks for the advice, but what do you mean by text box typing? Do you mean having it enter at a speed or something? I’d look and try to figure it out, but I can’t currently.
Edit: Any advice for what to use for character voice noises? I can't really figure out what sound would pair well with how they work.
Oops. I’ll add that as soon as possible.
Neat! I’ll look when I can.
Cool. Those should be useful.
Edit: When I try to upload music (an .mp3 called 92nd floor looping from https://soundimage.org/drama-2/), I am getting an Unknown Upload Error. Any clue what's up? I don't know if I am missing something because of lack of relevant knowledge or if the system is a little off.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 20, 2018, 01:06:02 pm
The typing speed is set by Text Display Rate under Dialogue Boxes. Setting it to 1 types 1 letter per frame. Shorter values are actually slower. Ideal speed may vary, especially if you are using text sound as well, you'll have to test to make sure the sound isn't grating or annoying. I typically use a display rate of 0.5 and set the sound as menu__10.wav (which is just a generic beep) for most NPCs, adjusting the Text Sound Speed variable to give characters different "pitch". Special characters get their own unique voice beeps.
It's not really necessary, but it's a nice bit of polish that can add some extra character to a world and it's characters. (Undertale did this wonderfully.)
I may need to find a better generic beep, since 0.5 is a bit slow for lengthy text, and menu__10.wav sounds really annoying at a speed of 1.
Post by: Kamani on October 20, 2018, 01:10:49 pm
I'll probably set my text speed a touch faster, to make sure the text isn't too slow, but I'll have to figure out a way to do a generic text sound.
Edit: Could you add something like hitting space to skip the text speed (excepting wait)? This would mean that even if the text was a bit slow, fast readers wouldn't end up waiting.
I'll do the text speed for now, but I'll leave the sounds for later, I think.
Okay.
Spoiler: Akashmandir Secret (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 20, 2018, 02:29:50 pm
Both of these can be disabled for particular sprites.
Post by: Kamani on October 21, 2018, 12:05:39 am
Edit: Any good way to assign numbers 1-5 (no repeats) to 5 different variables? I can think of some complicated ways using loops, but I probably missing a way that would work much faster, and without risk of causing loop-timeout issues, so if you have any suggestions, they would be appreciated.
Edit: Well, I had Droom2's outline all set up, and then my entire computer crashed, so I have to restart on that. Ugh, and it had turned out pretty nice too. Bleh.
Edit: To clarify, since I was rather vague, I very much doubt this has anything to do with a BoundWorlds issue. I just got bad luck, and that is frustrating.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 21, 2018, 06:57:51 am
I thought you might be looking for arrays though. I should add a method for creating and modifying arrays, possibly even saving arrays as partition data, which would allow far more complex data storage without defining excessive numbers of variables. I wanted to add a long-term Harvest Moon type farming minigame somewhere, and that's not really viable with the current save system, but arrays could make it possible.
Post by: Kamani on October 21, 2018, 10:28:31 am
Edit: Somehow I completely forgot that computers can easily run loops about 11 times (anywhere between 5 and approaching infinity, but that's probability). That was deeply foolish of me, thinking about it. But hey, it works now!
Edit: Added all of the fixes and music to Lusuria. There is currently no music in the secret home, because I feel like it needs a special theme (I tried 92nd floor, but that isn't quite right), but everywhere else has it. And I added Face Targets to the enemies that needed it (which included the SorceryFlames and Umbra), and fixed the sizeup skill on Umbra (it was not supposed to make Umbra giant permanently. That was a side effect of copying the skill from the old model, which was sized up from its size instead of sized down). Now Lusuria should work everywhere.
Edit: Droom2's outline is done. If you have time, could you tell me if it looks alright (it ended up a little odd because I ended up adding a diagonal version of a room that was originally going to be elsewhere because it couldn't be where it was going to be)? If it is good, it'll be the last major dungeon room (not counting already complete boss rooms, the small room that is just going to be a little mob rush, and the equally small but less technically tricky room that just forms a path between Droom2 and the final boss), so I'll be nearly done with the dungeon.
Ugh, thinking on it, progress has really slowed in the past month or so. I need to start working more efficiently. I'll start planning the town characters tomorrow when I'm away from my computer and thus can't do the dungeon. That should shave off time.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 24, 2018, 12:42:31 am
Anyway, don't worry about it, everyone has their down time. Pushing yourself too hard is a sure way to burn out. Honestly, I'd really wish there were more casual world builders out there, BoundWorlds was designed for people who don't have the patience to put together a full game, and you're setting a bad example with your good examples, haha :P
I've fixed up a bug related to functions and animations on new sprites not working properly the first time you create them. I also fixed knockback on high-mass objects. Going to have to start making a party system soon, I think, and that will probably require fixing up pathfinding to prevent party members from getting stuck on walls.
Post by: Kamani on October 24, 2018, 07:07:40 pm
That change to cactus and trees would be a really good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.
Fair enough. Thanks.
Clearly I'm going to have to make some small-scale side projects. :P
Good fix. Haven't noticed that one myself, but it sounds like a real issue.
Party system should be neat. Plus, it'll help once I get to Batelier's trial. Thinking about that trial, I have to figure out the other tier one trial, since I can't do Batelier's before the platform tiles system is set up. Not sure what to do for the other one. Hmm... I better figure that out pretty fast. I'd rather not do things any more out of order than is already done.
Edit: When you updated the Mountain Village whose name is hard to spell, you left the functional tiles visible by mistake. Probably by mistake anyways, you could have had a reason I just don't know about.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 26, 2018, 07:03:58 am
Pathing is tile-based and doesn't work very well in all circumstances; it doesn't really know what to do with drop and climb tiles and doesn't work in 2-d segments. I'll continue to make this work better.
I made a tiny little 8-bit dungeon room that has enemies with basic pathfinding.
Post by: Kamani on October 27, 2018, 09:44:41 pm
Yeah, that makes sense.
Checked out the dungeon. Is neat how that works. I'll have to try out how it works myself.
Edit: Made the cactuses and trees no longer work as top tiles only. Instead, they do as you recommended and are the entire object image. The best one is the big cactus, because I made it two objects, the cactus and floor, (one of which spawns the other in the right location), and thus I didn't need to worry about people being under the floor tile. It looks and works better. It was also basically necessary, since otherwise, the big cactus wouldn't have worked at all.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 29, 2018, 04:49:30 pm
Each orb is worth 120 sparks, which means that at the very least the challenge must take 2 minutes to complete (minus any other sparks or items of value the player will pick up), or require the player to spend their own sparks or use a different item of value to acquire. So you can't just place all the orbs at the entrance to a world. 2 minutes seems like a good amount of time for a relatively small but still challenging world; other similar rewards might be made for even smaller worlds or more elaborate quests.
You can only hold one orb of each color at a time; if you already have one the orb will be grayed out and picking it up will just grant the player 100 sparks instead.
The Orbs are as follows:
Orb of Power (red): Intended to be granted for a combat or destruction focused task
Orb of Heroism (yellow): Intended to be granted for heroic deeds
Orb of Kindness (green): Intended to be given as a reward for helping someone or making bonds
Orb of Tranquility (cyan): Intended to be found while wandering a generally peaceful world
Orb of Wisdom (blue): Intended to be given for completing a puzzle
Orb of Mastery (magenta): Intended to be given for completing a particularly difficult challenge
They can also just be found in a place that fits their color and theme for other reasons, I'm not restricting their use beyond the 2 minute requirement so world builders can use them as they want to.
Post by: Kamani on October 29, 2018, 10:16:14 pm
By the way, I'm having terrible lag on Droom2 new. Is it because of the size or the fairly large number of objects (all of which are immobile trees)? Will be unplayable until I can work this out. At least, it will be unplayable for me. Might work better on other computers.
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 29, 2018, 11:52:22 pm
Post by: Kamani on October 30, 2018, 12:07:07 am
Edit: It has been a real busy week, but I finally got some time to add active ranges. Unfortunately, the room is still lagging for me. Are you getting the same? I might have to change some things around to reduce size. Maybe break it in to two parts (uggh). But if that's all I can do, that's what I'll end up doing.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 03, 2018, 02:15:26 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 03, 2018, 02:17:00 pm
Edit: Got the statue art determining thing working, I think. I haven't tested them with dying yet, but they should work. I easily could have overlooked something, but it seems to work right.
Edit: Uh, the tutorial button is giving me a 404 error. What happened to it?
Edit: Welp, just spent ten minutes trying to figure out why the rush room wouldn't work, and then realized I had just forgotten to put _room._sprites in the each. I need to stop missing the obvious so much.
Edit: Okay, this time I am really stuck. On the DroomRush's object labeled Rush, I set it up so that the loops will break once conditions are met. The first loop works just fine, but the second loop didn't seem to work, and when I moved the loop break outside of any conditions so that it should be always triggered, it still didn't work. Did I mess up somewhere, or is there something up with loop breaks?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 04, 2018, 04:31:35 am
There might be other issues, when I fixed this it ran into an infinite loop, I'll check this out later (if you don't fix it).
EDIT: There does appear to be an issue with break statements placed after existing loops. Going to fix that up ASAP.
EDIT2: Ok, the break bug is fixed. It should work now, apart from the aforementioned issue of projectile lifespans. (Also, status effects have the same team as their creator. You can check if a sprite is a targetable unit by checking if _unit = 1, although I'd strongly advise giving projectiles lifespans anyway.)
Post by: Kamani on November 04, 2018, 01:40:19 pm
Edit: DroomRush is done, unless I decide that I don't like it and it needs to be restarted. This dungeon is starting to come together. Now I need to start planning out which enemies go where, finish connections, make the room that connects Droom2 to the boss, and do some cutscenes, and all that will be left is the town (which is also a big project).
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 07, 2018, 01:28:02 pm
I've been making a sprite generator Paint.net file for making it easier to create new NPCs (basically a file with the different parts stored in different layers, by setting the layer visibility you can combine the parts to make new spritesheets). Nothing "official" but it should be helpful for building the town.
Post by: Kamani on November 07, 2018, 03:35:19 pm
Oh, cool! That should really come in handy, since most people in this town will be humans. Not everyone, of course, but a solid majority.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 07, 2018, 03:44:19 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 07, 2018, 03:44:56 pm
Edit: Alright, mob heal drops are now in. I used the same rather sloppy system as before, with the dubious method of just calling out to something that is only in one version of the package, but it means that I only have to do edits once, so it'll do.
Edit: Alright, sometimes Droom2 lags a ton in the editor too. Did you ever figure out what was wrong with that? It is still a pretty serious issue, and, although I could work around by splitting the room, I'd prefer not to, since it would require completely redoing a large part of a room, which would be a pain, and would mess up it after I went to the trouble of getting it to look nice this way. But that's life sometimes, so if I have to, that's okay.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 08, 2018, 05:00:00 am
You can try disabling the AI of objects that don't need AI, although this doesn't change as much as you'd expect since being blind and immobile they already skip most AI steps.
I'm going to try and figure out what is using up memory. Might be related to that occasional stattaco freezing bug, which I still haven't figured out.
Post by: Kamani on November 08, 2018, 08:30:11 am
Well, I should probably do that anyway, thinking about it, so it’s a good idea either way. Thanks.
Okay. Good luck. Hopefully it’s an easyish solve this time around.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 08, 2018, 05:48:00 pm
Post by: Kamani on November 08, 2018, 11:40:41 pm
Edit: Is there any way to make an object appear below shadows? I want the cactus floor object to basically work as a tile, just not on the grid, and that's messing this up. I can either think of a way to deal with that, or I can just make no shadows. Either will work, I just need to know.
Edit: Huh, some stuff I could have sworn I fixed isn't fixed. Saving must have not worked or something. Annoying. Well, hopefully I didn't miss anything. I think I remember everything I did, but I don't have a very good memory...
And it seems like the stuff that isn't there wasn't the stuff I did earlier either. Very confusing.
Oh, and Droom2New still seems to be lagging. I have little clue why.
Would setting a tileset (that is already enabled) to be enabled every frame cause any lag? One of the updates does that.
... I think I figured out the issue with the unfixing stuff (in retrospect, it is pretty obvious. I should have noticed earlier). I just saved, and then went back in, and the things that I thought I had fixed that had become unfixed and then I fixed again were again unfixed. Everything that unfixed itself was part of the Kamani Monsters Desert package that SHOULD be loading in through the Kamani Monsters Desert Heal package. But each time I add it, it disappears. I must have forgotten to upload the changed original Kamani Monsters Desert package when I realized I forgot to add lifespans on projectiles and active ranges on enemies.
But now my question is why the healing version of the package isn't loading the standard package like it should. If I try to add it on again, then suddenly there are two copies of it added, and I can't delete either, so I think this part is probably an actual glitch. Could you take a look at this? I can't figure it out.
Bright side is, I took the map I had made for the dungeon, drew a path through it, and plotted out where to put dungeon enemies, so that should be fast when I can do it again.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2018, 04:36:49 am
I'm not sure exactly what the cactus floor is doing though...? Oh, I see, for the shadow. Hmm, maybe make the cactus set the tile below it to the appropriate tile index instead of creating a new sprite? That might help with slowdown as well, since there will be less sprites.
Frequently enabling and disabling tilemaps can cause slowdown, since it forces the layer to recalculate all tile data, though it isn't supposed to recalculate anything if you're just setting it to what it already was (though changing it back and forth within a single frame does cause slowdown). I'll have to check.
I'll check out the thing with the packages.
I've been getting into the habit of drawing rough maps on paper before actually building them in-game - seems to be easier to design things in pencil. The theme of Akashmandir is dreams and visions, so it has a bunch of small dungeons (most only a single room) that represent the dream of the various characters, with puzzles that symbolically represent their psychological problems. Right now I'm making a dungeon representing the mind of a flutist who is obsessevely focused on making the perfect song (who will be one of the four main party members). Since dream worlds are a likely recurring element given BoundWorlds' structure (that's why "Bed" is one of the preset Gate type options), I'm working a the design for another "transcendant" creature called Toringou, who are basically bird monsters that attack people through their dreams.
EDIT: Are you seeing slowdown mainly when first starting a session, but then it seems to clear up if you return to the editor and start again, but then it tends to slow down if you enter using a different gate? I'm trying to figure out a pattern but it's so inconsistent that it's hard to tell.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2018, 08:41:19 am
Can’t have it change the tile below it. It’s not on grid, so the shadow will end up in the wrong place. I could just disable it entirely and see if that helps the lag though.
Okay. I’m just enabling it repeatedly or disabling it repeatedly (never both for one at the same time), so that probably isn’t it then.
Thanks. This one just has me confused.
Huh, I didn’t draw out the Desert trial on paper (at least partially because I’m even worse at that then computer drawings), but I did plan it out in gimp.
Akashmandir sounds really neat. Looking forward to it.
And bird monsters are always appreciable. Especially since I hear about birds all the time anyway from someone else.
I didn’t check that yesterday (I only entered through different gates). I was getting lag in the editor mostly (which did not clear up when I entered the room through a gate and then left, or while I was in the room). Unfortunately, that doesn’t do much for figuring out a pattern or what is causing the issue. Sorry. I’ll try that out later today.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2018, 11:21:04 am
EDIT: Since this is the main issue, having only the red or the blue tiles active at the same time makes it much smoother.
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2018, 12:05:42 pm
What do you mean by this? I don’t think they ever are both active at once. Is this something I need to change? Apologies, but I am unable to figure out the meaning of the statement.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 14, 2018, 12:52:33 pm
Gradual flashes on specific tilesets will still be laggy if there are a lot of tilesets in a layer, but making the whole layer flash should be fine. Maybe I'll make a way to target all tilesets with a flash, so that you can make all tiles flash but not sprites.
Spoiler: Technical info if you're interested in what's going on behind the scenes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kamani on November 14, 2018, 04:04:22 pm
Okay. Makes sense.
On the technical info: Oh, okay. I think I understand it better now. Thank you for the explanation.
Edit: By the way, should you have a link to the patreon site on the main page? I noticed the link to it on the character creator, but I hadn't know about it until then. To be fair, I know roughly nothing about patreon or dwarf fortress forums logic, but it would make it easier to find.
Edit: Okay, I think I've figured out part of the package issue. It seems that, when I click on the delete button for a package that is being loaded into another package, it usually won't delete. Instead, it just goes straight to the menu for the package that I am clicking on without giving me the delete message.
If I hit the delete message in the main package while the tab for the loaded in package is still up, I'll get the delete message, but nothing will happen.
So I can delete any loaded in packages at all. This was the reason I was unable to delete anything.
The rest of the issue still has me mystified though.
Hopefully, that makes it a bit easier to solve this glitch. I'll tell you if I encounter anything else that might assist.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 17, 2018, 04:08:46 pm
As for the Patreon, I guess I'll put it here as well. Maybe I should try doing another ad now that it exists... I haven't been paying much attention to advertising lately, since turnout hasn't been great and I've been focusing on building my world(s). Well, we'll see how it goes. I see you've signed on, thanks :D
Hmm...What's a good symbol that can represent four worlds, joined at the center, and partially connected to each other?
Post by: Kamani on November 17, 2018, 06:23:28 pm
Well, having more worlds would probably help with advertising, so I suppose both things can help each other.
And yeah, BoundWorlds is great, I’ve put lots of time into it, and you’ve helped me many times with problems that are my fault like 50-75% of the time, so it feels right to give back, and you’ve definitely earned my support. Plus, BoundWorlds is really cool, and I’d love to see it do well.
In other words, since I suspect I may be babbling slightly, you earned my support, and you’ve made BoundWorlds deserve my support.
I’m not super great at symbols, so I don’t really know. Makes me think of a quadruple version of a ven diagram, but that’s just four overlapping circles, not anything really special. Hopefully, something better comes to you.
Edit: Welp. Went and added two more tile types to the color tiles. On the bright side, I think the number of potential situations in which I could need them is running low, so these might be the last I add.
Do you think anyone but me would find these at all useful? They save a lot of time if you need to do something weirdly niche like this, but are otherwise useless.
Edit: And another one, plus redid the previous two added because their color was slightly off (probably not really all that noticeable, but if you looked really closely...). But I really do think this was it this time. There can't possibly be anything else I need.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 18, 2018, 04:23:26 pm
The desert dungeon seems pretty good; looks like it only lacks the usual polish like enemy death timers and the like.
I've published a new area - it's a small dream "dungeon". No enemies, only puzzles revolving around a single mechanic. The context is that there is a young flutist who has been obsessively trying to write a song, and then fell sick with a mysterious illness, so you have to travel into his dream to help him recover. I'd like to know if the puzzle's solution is too hard to figure out - it's intended to be symbolic but I'm not sure how obvious the symbolism is. It's called "Taran's Dream".
Post by: Kamani on November 19, 2018, 01:20:41 am
Right, death timers. Have to add those. Right now, I’m heading into the last few weeks of the semester, so I might be a bit more absent, but after that, I should definitely be able to finish it, if I can’t earlier.
Oh, I’ll have to test that tomorrow. Sounds cool.
Plus, I love music and music composition, so it’s extra interesting.
Edit: Okay. Just ran through it. It was good, although the needing to loop around the entire thing to get the puzzle right before the final bit was kind of confusing. Beyond that, it made sense.
Edit: Oh, but I was getting a little of the big room occasional lag in it too. That was less than great, but when I rebooted by dying, it worked better.
Edit: Death timers added, grey tiles fixed (I accidentally set their enabled to 1 instead of 0 in the create bit...). I need to add sound effects and music, and I need to figure out how to handle the Droom2 lag (I'm not sure I can publish it as long as that is around). Beyond that, I now have everything in the dungeon ready to test (beyond variance on the pre-final boss droom). Still not sure how to handle the lag, but I'm hoping I can get a testing round where I get no lag so I can at least make sure everything else works, since I've probably messed up at least something.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 21, 2018, 09:27:08 am
I haven't yet fixed the issue with using too many visible tilesets at once, but this will be better once you add and activate the RedBlueControl.
Post by: Kamani on November 21, 2018, 09:28:40 am
I forgot to add that again? Whoops. Sorry.
Edit: Okay, having a spot of difficulty. For some reason, after the Sculptor fight, pretty often, instead of the dialogue beginning, the entire game just locks up (I think the locking up is because it activates the cutscene effect and then doesn't move past it, but I am not sure). What should happen is the player walking to a designated point, Sculptor giving some dialogue, etc., but instead, nothing. I even have the walk set to continue on failure. It is pretty likely that I just messed something up and I'm just totally missing it, but could you take a look and tell me if you see anything wrong?
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 26, 2018, 01:23:24 pm
Ok, it looks like the issue relates to how cutscenes work. During a cutscene, if the cutscene level is "disable all physics" or higher, all sprites apart from the cutscene master (or any specified exceptions) will not update at all. There is supposed to be a rule that automatically makes an exception for sprites that have specific commands given by the "cutscene master" (the sprite that initiated the cutscene) but it looks like initializing the "walk" command while the player is in the middle of a dash attack is messing this up since walk commands are normally cancelled if the target sprite is in the middle of dashing. I'll have to fix this, but if you set the general cutscene level to something lower (like "disable all AI") it should simplify things. The player's input is always disabled during a cutscene, so don't worry about that.
Post by: Kamani on November 26, 2018, 02:07:35 pm
Now I can take another testing run through and see if I can get this done.
Edit: The music in the tier one Trials is going to have be more light and energetic music, I think. The seconds will have more like Lusuria, indicating that things might not be exactly as they seem, the thirds... well, all of the thirds will be way different, and finding stuff for the thirds will be hard. Bright side is that I'm looking into music composition, so by the time I get to them, I might be able to deal with it on my own.
Will there be credit roll customization? I'd like to make sure that Eric Matyas is attributed correctly based on the specific requirements on the website's homepage.
Edit: Although I might be able to do some really nice custom credits if I made scrolling objects... then I could put the art on them and stuff. That might be worth it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 29, 2018, 12:24:18 am
Post by: Kamani on November 29, 2018, 12:28:07 am
Edit: Hmm... None of the Matyas music I've been looking at seems quite right for the desert dungeon. I'll have to start searching OpenGameArt.
Post by: IndigoFenix on November 30, 2018, 08:30:11 am
I've made a few improvements to drop tiles. Still fairly buggy in certain circumstances but the issue with entering sidescrolling areas from the side on the top tile (instead of just the bottom) has been fixed. Sidescrolling areas covered above and below in solid tiles seem to work fine. Still needs work.
I've also added the ability to scale background images which is nice for skyboxes.
Post by: Kamani on November 30, 2018, 08:51:37 am
Okay. Good to know. Hope the rest of the fixes go pretty easily.
Should come in handy.
Edit: Wow, I was just checking something in Lusuria, and I just realized that Will's dialogue is HORRIBLY lacking. He introduces himself to you every single time you talk to him. It's awful. Anyways, today I'll be making Lusuria fixes.
Oh, and I realized that I need to go back in make sure I didn't use they for every pronoun. It's a bad habit. Plus, the characters wouldn't like it. Some characters should be using it, but not every single one.
I made some questionable design choices for Lusuria, didn't I...
Edit: Wow, I messed up a lot of stuff, didn't I? It looks like I had some dialogue backwards on Azeron, causing them to use the wrong phrases.
Edit: I let Remy ask you if you wanted a drink in the past-first dialogue, and then didn't let you get one. I should do that.
Edit: Wait, and Remy has modified post dungeon dialogue that, for some reason, doesn't actually ever appear?
Edit: Clarification: This was just a mistake I made, not a glitch or something I need help with. I just, for some arcane reason, did not actually write the bit that made it work at all. It was an obvious and easy mistake to noticed and fix, just one that I somehow totally missed before.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 02, 2018, 06:43:36 am
Post by: Kamani on December 02, 2018, 11:43:54 am
Edit: I published Lusuria with the changes. Forgot to test it first, and I won't have time today, but I'm reasonably confident that nothing should be broken. Or at least nothing worse than some text being odd. I'll take another run through tomorrow and check it all.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2018, 03:14:36 pm
I went through Lusuria again. Everything seems to work well, though Arc and Thaum don't seem to have dialogue? There are also a few text boxes without a speaker defined...hm. Maybe an indicator on the flowchart screen specifying the speaker would be worthwhile.
Post by: Kamani on December 03, 2018, 03:18:13 pm
... whoops. Wonder what I did wrong. Probably renamed the chat starting point or something. I’ll check as soon as I have time.
I’ll look for text boxes without a defined speaker. Must have missed some more or unfixed some that had been working.
Thanks for taking a look at it.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2018, 03:57:25 pm
Unfortunately this bypasses the main menu, so people who enter this way will not be able to save unless they return to the menu (unless they have logged in previously and have active cookies). I'll see if I can come up with a solution to this...maybe in-world login stations. But it might help gain more interest at least.
Oh, by the way...to help music load in time you can preload rooms before entering them. This starts the music loading process and once loaded the music will be stored for the rest of the session.
Post by: Kamani on December 03, 2018, 04:00:50 pm
... starts considering url based secret rooms...
But more reasonably, yeah that should be neat. Hope it helps get some interest. I’d try to put it out there some more, but I barely know anyone and have a relatively small online presence, so I doubt there’s much I can do.
Edit: I was testing Lusuria inn dialogue, and I got the same kind of lag that I get in Droom2New in the desert. Only happened one, but it's quite strange that I'd get it there, since there's not much there.
Edit: Okay, it keeps happening.
Edit: And the credit scene is also failing. I start it in the inn, the screen goes black from the black flash, nothing happens, I wait five or so seconds, and then the credit scene ends and everything returns to standard continuing.
Edit: And that time, when I walked into the inn, testing a fix to Azeron's name issue, I had a full crash (one of the Oh Snap ones, like the other crashing issue). Don't know if this is an isolated incident or not, I just figured I'd note it.
Edit: Fixed the Rel unlabeled dialogue and Azeron's name. The credit scene is still broken, but for now, this is everything I know of.
Is there a problem with the music somewhere? I usually play muted, so I haven't noticed anything. I didn't notice that edit until now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2018, 05:07:33 am
I'll check out the bugs you mentioned. Strange, but I did make some internal data structure changes in order to accelerate the framerate.
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2018, 07:39:41 am
Thank you. Hopefully any required solutions are easy to reach.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 04, 2018, 04:17:44 pm
I did do a complete rebuild of how the credits work - non-media contributions will now show up, and media and objects are now divided up by category. I wasn't sure exactly how best to describe the world builder's own contribution without adding a whole bunch of objects, so the world builder's contributions to their own world are not specified in the credits. Maybe when a large part of a given category falls under a single contributor their specific contributions don't need to be mentioned.
The way that I built the new credits system can also potentially make smart analysis of how certain objects are used, like separating "enemy design" from "character design" or things of that nature... I'll have to experiment to figure out what works.
Post by: Kamani on December 04, 2018, 04:20:29 pm
Neat! I'll take a look at it when I go through Lusuria again to make sure everything is fixed.
Sounds cool.
Edit: I had a flash of inspiration on how to make a boss I had some ideas for, so I am doing that instead tonight. I've been thinking about this for quite some time, so I'm hoping it works.
Edit: It works on the first test projectile. The boss saves the player's position and activates a variable that makes each projectile create a marker that stores the projectile's position, speed, and face, and then triggers another variable that destroys all current projectiles, moves the player, and makes the markers recreate the old ones. It works like the Omega Flowey's Save and Load ability in Undertale, if you've played it.
The boss is themed around time, so I figured jumping around time was fitting. They'll also slow and speed up everything, and stop all projectiles totally for a few seconds before making them move MUCH faster for a few. All in all, it should be interesting.
But this isn't for anything soon, I just wanted to make the concept while I still had the idea.
Edit: The tutorial page seems to be down down for some reason. Probably worth a check.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2018, 11:55:03 am
Tutorial page is fixed.
I forgot to mention that I added the ability to perform basic operations on variables using the Set Variable event, which should make some things a bit more convenient. Now you don't have to do {Set variable to variable + 1} anymore, you can just select Add and then put in 1. I guess that's more convenient, anyway. I might also put in some common variables as a dropdown list to make things more convenient for new players who are just starting to use functions. Got to think of ways of making the interface more user friendly.
Post by: Kamani on December 05, 2018, 04:20:10 pm
Would make sense if that was how it worked for Omega Flowey. It seems like a pretty good way of handling it without access to save states.
Good. I was going to check the exact time that _update_before triggered, and I noticed that. Now I’ve checked, so I’ll know for the future.
Yeah, I noticed the changes to that. But by now I’m just used to doing it this way, so I didn’t bother. Doesn’t take much extra time to do it this way, so...
Some basic variables on a list would probably come in handy for new folks, so that’s probably a good idea.
Edit: Is there a good way to change an object's current speed with variables separately from changing its max speed? I tried _spd, but that does nothing, and _vel couldn't be changed in the in-world object editor menu.
I can think of a workaround, but it would be kind of goofy and potentially could lead to long-term trouble, so I'd prefer to avoid that for now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 06, 2018, 04:35:48 pm
There's some weird code that overrides max speed during knockback but you can't call knockback directly yet, except by creating an actual hitbox.
I do need to come up with better solutions for this kind of thing, right now the whole speed scripting is rather overcomplicated.
Post by: Kamani on December 06, 2018, 04:51:16 pm
I’ll give it a try. Thanks. I’m trying to modify the speed of every object.
That shouldn’t matter I think, but thanks for the warning.
Makes sense. Actually, since I should really be finishing the desert dungeon instead. I can wait on doing this anyway.
Edit: Spent twenty minutes trying to fix a glitch before remembering that you had already told me how to fix it (the Sculptor lock up glitch from before), and fixed another glitch that could break everything if blue was active on death. Woops. Beyond that, coming along.
Edit: Having a problem with BoundWorlds crashing again. The one on room transfer. Had this a few days ago, but apparently, I forgot to mention it?
Additionally, having an issue. When I beat the miniboss and move back to Droom1, I instantly die. I think I know why (Droom1 is still on red tiles, so even though it immediately switches to blue, I think the player falls through anyway (I know they player dies by falling, since they switch to fall art before dying)), but I don't know how to fix it without overcomplicated workarounds. Any ideas on how I can fix this?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 09, 2018, 04:53:05 am
Post by: Kamani on December 09, 2018, 04:53:39 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 10, 2018, 04:04:04 pm
I fixed the issue that was causing the crashes.
Putting the change event in _update_before does fix the issue. To make it less of a hassle, you could copy and paste the _update function, rename it, and then call it as a function in the _update_before function. There should really be a way of copying multiple events at once, though.
I played through the desert trial, such as it is. Looking nice so far! A few small suggestions to make it nicer (though you're probably planning on some of them anyway):
Preloading the boss rooms will make their music start more consistently.
The hourglasses could make the sandstorm fade in, then use a flash to conceal the tile swap. Kind of like what happens when you find the secret area, but faster.
The secret room needs to be connected to the right gate - it tries to return you to the old rooms.
Come to think of it, I don't even know how you do that "sinking into the sand" effect. Gonna have to check out how that works. The way the last statue crumbles is pretty cool, maybe the others should do the same?
Would be nice if the dragon had some animations, like flying or opening its mouth to breathe fire.
Other than that, it's pretty nice! I've added some more layers to the NPC generator on Open Game Art so that's there if you want to use it for making new human or humanoid characters.
Post by: Kamani on December 10, 2018, 04:13:15 pm
Great! Thanks.
Okay. Thanks. I’ll do that when I get on.
Thanks!
Will do. Although, since their music doesn’t immediately start on room entry if I recall, will that still work?
Oh, yeah. I had been planning to make them fade in, but I forgot. The flash sounds like a good idea too. Thanks. I’ll definitely add those.
Whoops! Thanks. That was a real silly mistake for me.
Excluding white box and later changes. I’ll add it to the others. That should make them look nicer.
Oh, yeah, right. Completely forgot. Thanks, will add.
Thanks for all the tips. This really needs some polish now that I think about it, and these should add it.
Cool! I’ll have to use those on my town NPCs.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 10, 2018, 05:22:06 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 10, 2018, 06:57:48 pm
Edit: I’ll be trying to finish the dungeon tomorrow and over the weekend. I’ve been taking way too long on this, so I’d like to get it done and start catching up.
Edit: By the way, I got a crash when I was testing an attempt at fixing the sand controller first room death thing. The test had failed (I had accidentally only edited the standard version, and not the first room version), so I would have died immediately. It was an easy fix this time (since I had to fix what probs caused it anyway), but it could be a more meaningful issue in other circumstances.
Edit: Okay, now I'm just getting the standard crashes again. Finished a boss test round, returned to the editor, and instantly got a crash. Something appears to still be wrong?
Edit: Sometimes, when I create a layer or room (anything that is labeled (thing)(number), like room18 or layer2), the number on the end disappears after I switch menus (or possibly enter testing mode? Not sure exactly when this occurs). I keep ending up with layer2s labeled layer, which is messing things up. Probably not a significant glitch (unless it has greater implications), just annoying.
Edit: I forgot that I made Sand Scorpions stop being a unit during their teleport. That messed up the rush room because it tested for units. I'll make it test for not bullet/effect instead.
Edit: Welp, might not end up getting does as soon as I hoped. Ended up spending a long while on getting the crumbling effect to work on standard sand statues. Bright side is that I think it works now.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2018, 11:50:35 am
Also fixed the new object numbering problem.
Post by: Kamani on December 16, 2018, 03:15:37 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 16, 2018, 05:38:43 pm
I'm almost positive there is an easier way of doing whatever it is you're doing with them. Like a single invisible sprite that handles the dialogue, that creates and manipulates the visible statue.
Post by: Kamani on December 16, 2018, 06:05:29 pm
There is definitely an easier way. Unfortunately, I realized that far too late, so I might just leave as is.
Edit: I added a cutscene to the beginning Autem cutscene. I added an End Cutscene to the end, but it doesn't seem to be ending? I just end up unable to move. I don't know whether this is a mistake I made or some greater problem (probably the first), but if you could take a look, it would be appreciated.
Edit: Nevermind. I figured it out. I put the destroy yourself effect before the end cutscene by mistake, so it just destroyed itself before it could end the cutscene.
Woops.
Edit: Bright side is that that actually helped me avoid a problem. The destroy also happened before a variable activation, so it would have messed up dialogue on repeat plays.
Edit: Oh, the problem with the statues being unactivatable is that they don't spawn again. Must have forgotten to reset their setting effect... Woops. Well, should be an easy fix.
Yeah, just forgot to set _world.sp to 0. Foolish mistake for me. You might end up with some of the statues swapping between rounds, but they should work. Now I just wonder what _world.sc is. Was it just a typo, or was it meaningful? Welp. I should label better. Edit: Oh, right, it is the number of statues checked. Wonder why I set that right, but not the actual statue setting.
Edit: Fixed a bunch of stuff (what was I even doing with the second secret room. That wasn't done at all), but I didn't quite finishing testing. I should have time to wrap up tomorrow though.
Edit: The desert trial is kind of shoddily made. What was past me doing? I mean, it mostly works, but it is kind of messy in a lot of places.
Edit: Apparently still getting random crashes? Wasn't even in a room transfer this time. I had been testing for quite some time (about an hour or so), and I just crashed while editing the sand controller in the post Sculptor boss room.
Hope I didn't lose anything, because my memory is garbage right now, and I have no idea what I was doing before that...
Edit: Oh, wait, I remember now. Nothing was lost.
Anyways, I've ran quite a few rounds, and I've probably forgotten some of the stuff I need to fix, but this is really starting to work. I don't know what past me was doing sometimes, but I've managed to fix most of it anyways.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 17, 2018, 02:55:44 pm
I would change some of the dialogue though. The characters' tendency to tell you that they're holding back or assuring you of your safety during the trial itself can be a bit of a mood-killer. Besides, if you're able to meet with them afterwards, that's a much better place to put that kind of thing.
I do think Hiekka's role during the final battle could be done a bit better too - manifesting as a single sand dragon that regenerates almost immediately when beaten and occasionally dropping easily-avoided magic bursts feels more annoying than powerful. The sandstorm is cool though, and could probably be played up. Hmm...maybe Hiekka could manifest as a sandstorm and during the sandstorm uses a bunch of various kinds of arena magic to put pressure on the player and make them focus on dodging, but occasionally enters a "rest" period, allowing the player to focus on fighting Autem.
Post by: Kamani on December 17, 2018, 03:35:01 pm
Fair enough. Hiekka’s a bit tricky to write, but yeah, thinking about it, I killed the tension there. Will change.
Oh, yeah, right. The single sand dragon was actually pre-Hiekka even being part of the fight. I’ll remove them. The magic blasts are also probably dull, now that you mention it. I seem to recall that I just added them because I had decided to add Hiekka to the fight, had no ideas on what to do, and then just gave up or something I guess. I have no idea what past-me was thinking. I like the sandstorm manifestation idea, although what do you mean by arena magic?
Thanks for the critique. I felt like the dialogue and boss just weren’t quite there this time, so this should really help me make them good enough. Thank you.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 17, 2018, 04:00:09 pm
Post by: Kamani on December 17, 2018, 04:36:44 pm
Mayhap the shelter could be an attack that got used while Autem is in the air and have it used randomly instead of the flying fireball drop?
Edit: I'm thinking about just nullifying the defend skill during the Trials. It messes up balance on a lot of stuff (small attacks just get fully blocked), and I think I prefer making people dodge to block. I just don't know if it is what I am going for.
Edit: Is there a good way to make a player move towards a point a set distance (like one of those black hole attacks in games) without making them reduce distance when they get close? I can think of some workarounds, but no really good ways.
Edit: It appears that when trying to set _face to _direction_to is crashing BoundWorlds? I'm probably doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what. I'm using on the object labeled PlayerPlacerMarker in the TestingBossroom, but when it activates, everything just goes black. Any clue what's going on?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2018, 12:14:46 am
The black hole effect will be a good opportunity for windboxes, which I'm working on.
I'll check out the bug.
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2018, 12:19:10 am
Oh, okay. Cool. Looking forward to seeing them.
Thanks for taking a look.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2018, 01:53:13 am
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2018, 08:09:49 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2018, 05:35:28 pm
Hitboxes now have 3 separate knockback values: a base speed that is applied regardless of mass, a variable force value that is multiplied by the target's mass, and a max value that restricts the top speed the hitbox can accelerate the target. This is nice for cases where, for example, you want an attack that will knock a person with mass of 1 back a few tiles but not turn a mouse with a mass of 0.001 into a supersonic missile, or a strong wind that will push the player but will not accelerate them over a certain speed.
I've also added two related function events, Accelerate and Apply Force. The former just applies an acceleration value and direction to a target, capped at a max speed if you want, the latter simulates knockback of a hitbox collision on a given sprite without needing to actually create a hitbox. Both are pretty similar in practice, though Accelerate is recommended if it's all you're doing.
You can create objects that suck stuff in or push things away by giving them a windbox with Radial Force selected. Negative knockback will allow you to suck things in; this also works with the basic melee attack so you can make whirlpools or tornadoes or something of the sort.
Quite a number of things in the physics engine have been changed around, hopefully the bugs it causes will be minimal.
Post by: Kamani on December 19, 2018, 07:44:38 pm
Makes sense.
Also makes sense.
Great! That should help me make a big Hiekka attack.
Hopefully. I'll tell you if I run into anything.
And thanks for the convenient timing on this addition! Super useful, and should be useful for lots of stuff besides just the big attack.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 20, 2018, 02:56:55 pm
I think it would be cool if these powerups were pseudo-characters. Some people or creatures who enter the void become spirits and they can join with you to give you new abilities. I'm going to design a jump creature of some sort I guess...
Post by: Kamani on December 20, 2018, 03:12:10 pm
Edit: Some more Lusuria dialogue problems fixed. Someone's name had a typo, a character referred to having done something in one text while specifically having mentioned never having done it elsewhere, etc.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 20, 2018, 06:04:31 pm
I'm experiencing a few bugs with saving, sometimes it seems the world will be unable to save because it thinks you're not logged in. If this happens, open up another tab and this should automatically log you in, allowing you to save in the original tab. I'm not sure if it's a regular issue or if it's just my computer, so let me know if you encounter this.
Post by: Kamani on December 20, 2018, 06:05:40 pm
Oh, thanks for the warning. I'll tell you if I see the issue.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 21, 2018, 06:20:34 am
Here's the link (https://discord.gg/bW99U7P)
Post by: IndigoFenix on March 29, 2019, 04:28:15 am
I've also added an experimental feedback system. If you're logged in, you can leave your thoughts and comments in a world by creating "echoes" in the menu screen.
Post by: RoseHeart on April 29, 2019, 03:41:03 pm
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 13, 2019, 02:36:42 pm
I may do another one that uses voice acting later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjCdRsmHcxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjCdRsmHcxk)
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 24, 2019, 12:19:22 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfimJ4ZVeaQ
Post by: IonMatrix on September 01, 2019, 12:15:47 am
When I try to accesses the website Microsoft Edge just shows the loading icon for a while, then pretends it's loaded. But it's just a white screen. Maybe it has something to do with my crappy internet connection or the fact that I'm in China. Maybe you can check?
Anyways, great job!
Edit: Also, what do you use for pixel art?
Post by: Kamani on September 01, 2019, 12:55:59 am
On the topic of pixel art, you can use anything you can upload (and legally use with licensing), or anything that’s already been uploaded. A lot of what I’ve used is from opengameart.org.
I wouldn’t know about the other issue since I just use it, but hope it turns out to be an easy fix.
Post by: IonMatrix on September 01, 2019, 03:58:53 am
Also, I meant what software you recommend for pixel art. I guess I have crappy english skills.
Post by: IndigoFenix on September 01, 2019, 04:05:03 am
I use Paint.NET for image editing, although I mostly get graphics from OpenGameArt.org.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2020, 04:27:44 am
I recently created a complete Zelda-inspired dungeon creator package, which will make creating new worlds a lot easier. Check it out.
Legendary Dungeons Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgDR3azAPW0)
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 14, 2020, 01:06:46 pm
You can now create a profile page and browse the pages of other world builders
Cumulative Traveler Points and Creator Points are shown on your profile
Object editor overhaul - object properties are now better organized in terms of importance, which should hopefully make creating objects easier to learn
Sprite centering has more options and works better, and the GUI for animation editing is more intuitive
Significant improvements to the combat system - melee attacks, auto-blocking and dodging can be added to units without getting into custom techniques
Directional, breakable shields and super armor with various parameters can be added to techniques
Creating custom weapons is much less convoluted
QOL improvements to Creator Tools
I've also just added BoundWorlds to Itch.io, so if you would check it out there and give it a like that would be much appreciated!
https://indigofenix.itch.io/boundworlds (https://indigofenix.itch.io/boundworlds)