Post by: webadict on July 19, 2014, 03:48:17 pm
Please maintain a chill atmosphere.
This game will start when Supernatural ends and there are 13 or more players signed up.
Basic rules:
- No PMing to anyone but me, the mod. I won't make this an action either because PMing is stupid.
- No Quoting of the Mod in relation to PMs. You are free to quote anything in the thread. You may also paraphrase.
- Semi-hammers in effect. Days last on a soft 72 hours, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. If a player is hammered, there is to be no more talking. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you can and should edit out the post.
- Nights last 24 hours or whenever all the actions are sent in. If you do not wish to action, please send a PM stating so.
- Weekends count for 0 hours, as I enjoy my free time on them.
- Extensions require a majority vote. This will be limited to 2 extensions per Day, because, seriously, make up your minds already. Extensions are an additional 48 hours.
- There may be Post Restrictions. These should not interfere with gameplay.
- I cannot answer questions about player's roles unless that player's role is available to be seen. I cannot answer questions about your role in thread. I can, however, answer generic questions. I will simply ask you to rephrase the question, if I deem the question is bad.
- Please vote in a manner that is viewable with my poor eyesight. If I can't see your vote, I might skip it. I can't trust LurkerTracker to do my vote counts for me, but I'll at least check it for semi-accuracy. Bold and Red makes it really easy to see.
- If I leave the thread open at Night, do not post unless you have an ability allowing you to.
You are not in the game until I receive a role. Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities. And have fun! Because, honestly, that's the whole point.
Also, for those without knowledge of how I style roles, here's a little cheat sheet! If you ask me one of these questions, I will not answer it.
Spoiler: Webadict on Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Webadict on Action Order (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Webadict on Alignments (click to show/hide)
Players:
Cheeetar
Nerjin
Silthuri
Tiruin
Toaster
This can no longer be you!
Replacement List:
This can always be you!
Post by: Jack A T on July 19, 2014, 04:09:33 pm
Sending role.
Post by: 4maskwolf on July 19, 2014, 05:52:52 pm
At it's current rate, supernatural won't wrap up for a while, so hopefully I'll be able to play fairly close to the start date.
Post by: Toaster on July 19, 2014, 07:12:36 pm
Post by: Scripten on July 19, 2014, 07:27:57 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on July 19, 2014, 07:33:11 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on July 19, 2014, 07:37:32 pm
I'm in.So, about your lack of interesting traits... :P
Post by: Silthuri on July 19, 2014, 10:35:04 pm
*Giggles maniacally*
Post by: Nerjin on July 19, 2014, 11:29:22 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 20, 2014, 09:00:53 am
Post by: Varee on July 20, 2014, 09:09:03 am
Post by: Jiokuy on July 20, 2014, 11:20:40 am
Post by: Hapah on July 20, 2014, 12:27:52 pm
Post by: Imp on July 21, 2014, 03:37:30 am
But I remember I loved this version, the last one I played. BYOR taught me that Mafia could be fun! I'd like back in, please.
I don't have as much time as I once did; I may not have as much motivation either. But I can promise to follow the thread and get at least 5 posts a week in, that should be very possible for me even as my life is now.
PMing a role.
Post by: Shakerag on July 21, 2014, 09:44:32 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 21, 2014, 10:07:08 am
Just noticed that this won't start until Supernatural ends. This changes thing. Sending a role imminently.
Post by: Shakerag on July 21, 2014, 10:58:46 am
Post by: flabort on July 21, 2014, 03:36:39 pm
Post by: LarsGerhard on July 21, 2014, 07:50:28 pm
Post by: webadict on July 21, 2014, 07:55:20 pm
InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Post by: LarsGerhard on July 21, 2014, 07:59:30 pm
InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Very well.
Post by: flabort on July 21, 2014, 08:57:36 pm
Oh... :(InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Would other games on this forum count?
Post by: Imp on July 21, 2014, 09:06:34 pm
Would other games on this forum count?
They probably will, Flab :) But most games take weeks or so to finish. The reason for 'play a BM first' is usually two fold - one to offer you a feel of what playing mafia here is like (since not everywhere plays the same) and also to try and see if you're likely to stick around and finish a game if you start one (astonishingly many do not).
Post by: Varee on July 21, 2014, 09:15:56 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 21, 2014, 09:19:41 pm
Knock knock. Been a while since I played. Been a while since I've been on the forums!Good to see you back.
Post by: Imp on July 21, 2014, 09:31:46 pm
One, two, someone's coming for you
Three, four lock and shut your door
Five, six grab a crucifix
Seven, eight try to stay awake
Nine, ten never play again...
:-X
Good to see you back.
Ooh, thank you, Persus! It's good to see you and others again too! Sure hope we all have fun, looks like this BYOR is going to overflow with players!
Got to catch them all....
Post by: webadict on July 21, 2014, 09:41:55 pm
You have prior games that I can look at. You have posts and I can at least count on that. Plus, you've played a game of Mafia, I assume.Oh... :(InI'm sorry. I don't accept players that haven't played a Beginner's Mafia. If you'd like to play a Beginner's Mafia first, I could invite you to the next game.
Would other games on this forum count?
Well i never played a BM here but i just finish Jack Byor so i guess that is ok?Jack's BYOR counts enough.
Post by: Cheeetar on July 22, 2014, 01:21:07 am
Knock knock. Been a while since I played. Been a while since I've been on the forums!
Whoah. Welcome back!
Post by: Imp on July 22, 2014, 05:34:12 am
Whoah. Welcome back!
Cheeetar, my not-so successful executioner!
Gain any uninteresting traits yet? Cause you didn't have any when I knew you before :D
Post by: Cheeetar on July 22, 2014, 06:29:44 am
Also: You should totally make a post in the banter thread now that you're back- Other people will be pleased as well.
Post by: webadict on July 22, 2014, 09:45:59 am
Post by: TolyK on July 22, 2014, 11:52:43 am
I'll probably post to watch, maybe replace if needed.
Post by: IronyOwl on July 22, 2014, 09:36:14 pm
Post by: webadict on July 23, 2014, 12:01:01 am
Post by: Toaster on July 23, 2014, 07:47:01 am
Post by: Tiruin on July 23, 2014, 07:54:25 am
Post by: webadict on July 23, 2014, 08:43:31 am
Great, too late to in. :-[You know, if you don't send your role, you can't get in, Tiruin.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on July 27, 2014, 12:50:04 am
Edit:god damn. Ill replace if it come to it.
Post by: webadict on July 29, 2014, 08:57:43 pm
Post by: webadict on August 04, 2014, 10:14:44 am
Post by: Toaster on August 04, 2014, 12:45:19 pm
HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE
Post by: notquitethere on August 04, 2014, 01:16:03 pm
Post by: Shakerag on August 04, 2014, 02:05:11 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 04, 2014, 02:05:45 pm
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.This.
My role is going to be fun to play, regardless of how he casts it, but I want to see where he went with it.
With that said, HYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEE
Post by: flabort on August 04, 2014, 02:08:40 pm
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.http://www.levelupstudios.com/shyguys
Just inspired by your avatar. :P
Post by: zombie urist on August 04, 2014, 02:12:49 pm
Post by: Shakerag on August 04, 2014, 03:49:40 pm
notquitehypedI sniggered.
Post by: Toaster on August 04, 2014, 03:50:13 pm
Post by: flabort on August 04, 2014, 03:51:06 pm
Post by: Toaster on August 04, 2014, 03:51:36 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 04, 2014, 03:52:45 pm
Post by: flabort on August 04, 2014, 03:55:14 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 04, 2014, 03:59:23 pm
Post by: flabort on August 04, 2014, 04:26:50 pm
HypeK.
Hype13.
IronyHype.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 04, 2014, 04:29:09 pm
Post by: Jack A T on August 04, 2014, 04:31:25 pm
Post by: Scripten on August 04, 2014, 04:41:48 pm
Choo choo, let's get aboard the hype train! (Also, kinda actually hyped.)
Post by: notquitethere on August 04, 2014, 04:43:15 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 04, 2014, 04:44:34 pm
HypeK.I prefer HypyK and Hypus13 myself.
Hype13.
Post by: flabort on August 04, 2014, 05:02:25 pm
Those do seem better, but less hype, so...?HypeK.I prefer HypyK and Hypus13 myself.
Hype13.
Post by: webadict on August 04, 2014, 06:37:28 pm
My amount of hype depends on what webadict cooked up for my role.Your role was nerfed into the ground. I had to remove the laser eyes and the flying dinosaur bodyguards.
Also, Hapah has dropped out. That means I have two choices: Place in TolyK (or another replacement) into his role or have them send in a new role. On the plus side, his role wasn't completely done, so it's not a complete loss, but it's still a loss. Sad days.
But, I'd want to keep it at 17, just so I don't have to rearrange alignments and powers.
Post by: notquitethere on August 04, 2014, 07:52:58 pm
Post by: Imp on August 04, 2014, 07:55:24 pm
If you'd still have space, i'd get In S'been a loooong time, tho.
Edit:god damn. Ill replace if it come to it.
Edited to add my hyperbole to the action! Hype hype hype-ray!
Post by: IronyOwl on August 04, 2014, 07:56:20 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 04, 2014, 07:56:48 pm
Ultracompromise: Set TolyK/MBP's role submission to The Role Inherited From Hapah's Departure.This.
Post by: webadict on August 04, 2014, 08:12:37 pm
Compromise: let TolyK send in any role they like, so long as its identical to Hapah's role.
Guys, you can't just list the same compromise. Come on.Ultracompromise: Set TolyK/MBP's role submission to The Role Inherited From Hapah's Departure.This.
But, seriously, I'll probably let TolyK/MBP choose his role.
I'll send them a PM. Whoever replies, gets in.
Post by: Hapah on August 04, 2014, 10:19:31 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 04, 2014, 11:14:21 pm
Post by: webadict on August 05, 2014, 09:05:14 am
Wish I had the time. I wonder what my role would have been?I'll post it post-game.
Post by: Shakerag on August 06, 2014, 09:15:05 am
Post by: Toaster on August 06, 2014, 09:15:39 am
Post by: notquitethere on August 06, 2014, 10:04:03 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 06, 2014, 10:04:39 am
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: notquitethere on August 06, 2014, 10:04:47 am
Post by: TolyK on August 06, 2014, 10:26:47 am
Post by: Shakerag on August 06, 2014, 11:24:18 am
Post by: Scripten on August 06, 2014, 11:30:47 am
You're all a bunch of hype-o-chondriacs.
No need to be a hype-ocrit.
Post by: webadict on August 06, 2014, 07:25:51 pm
I've got a few minor tinks before roles start going out. But, I should have this done soon.
... Aaaand because there are 17 people, I might need to borrow Meph to help send out the rest.
Post by: TolyK on August 06, 2014, 11:44:43 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on August 07, 2014, 01:15:44 am
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 01:28:24 am
Day 1 is going to be hilarious.I've got my money on Day 3 being the hilarious one.
Also, I wasn't able to finish the roles today. Apologies. I have just a few minors actions that were inconsistent or problematic. I'm finishing them up, but it's late. They WILL be ready tomorrow, around 5:30 PM Central, but possibly (probably) earlier.
Do NOT start doing game stuff before the Day is officially started. Doing so will be considered rude. There's lots of messages that need to be sent out, so let me finish that before you start playing.
If you have role questions, please number them so that I can efficiently answer your questions in a legible way for me.
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 12:49:23 pm
Hey, don't worry about roles being late webadict, we're all excited to play and can be as patient as need be.
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 01:03:36 pm
┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 01:07:34 pm
Yeah, I'll put that table back."pssst. He's gonna flip it again at some point in this thread"
┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
Post by: TolyK on August 07, 2014, 02:22:51 pm
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 02:37:22 pm
I may be able to PFP, but it sounds like I'll be absent for Day 1, Night 1, and some of Day 2, maybe even some Night 2. Apologies.You can try, but good luck making sense of 16 other people talking.
Hey, don't worry about roles being late webadict, we're all excited to play and can be as patient as need be.
And roles are going out steadily right now. It'll just take, you know, 2 hours to get them all out. I'll be answering questions as they go, but this is the best way to do it right now.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 02:53:20 pm
┻━┻ ︵ ノ(゜-゜)╯┬─┬
Welcome back Imp..
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 02:54:27 pm
That's my role, by the way. I sent in 'an imp that plays with Tiruin'. *Rubs hands together*.
Lets see what I get!
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 03:01:48 pm
Post by: Shakerag on August 07, 2014, 03:10:21 pm
I have my role as well. In fact, I got my role the second Wuba said he was sending him. Therefore he loves me more than all of you combined. Go ahead, prove that he doesn't.I got my role before he posted he was sending them >_>
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 03:10:59 pm
You're already playing with me pre-game. x_x Eep.
NERJIIIIN! YOU'RE BACK TOO!
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 03:11:50 pm
NERJIIIIN! YOU'RE BACK TOO!
I've been sitting on this role since before the last BYOR ended. There was no way I couldn't come back.
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 03:26:51 pm
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 03:44:57 pm
You weren't first. I was sending them before I was saying I was sending them.I have my role as well. In fact, I got my role the second Wuba said he was sending him. Therefore he loves me more than all of you combined. Go ahead, prove that he doesn't.I got my role before he posted he was sending them >_>
Alright, let's get started!
Dear Sir or Madam,
You have been cordially invited to Webadict's 13th Birthday Party. Please come dressed as your favorite... something!
See you there,
Webadict
And 17 of the 20 guests made it, dressed in very odd and different costumes, ready to eat cake. Because everyone knew that Webadict's dad made the best cake in the whole state. It was judged at the statewide Cake Contest. He even had a ribbon stating so.
But, when Webadict's mom went get the cake, all of it had been eaten. But, by whom?
Clearly, this was a case for over-imaginative preteens instead of simply baking another cake, which Webadict's dad was currently doing anyhow.
It is now Day.
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar -
flabort -
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Jiokuy -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - 4maskwolf, Cheeetar, flabort, Imp, IronyOwl, Jack A T, Jiokuy, Nerjin, notquitethere, Persus13, Scripten, Shakerag, Silthuri, Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK, Varee,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 04:02:24 pm
Oh, the game has started.
Hi everyone. My name is 4maskwolf. It's time to play a game. I like to play. Do you like to play.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 04:04:39 pm
4maskwolf
It's 5am and I'm remembering horror stuffs >_>
Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
. . .
Oh dear 17 people.
And most are returned players ;_;
...Argh I can't think. Questionnaire later on. Sorry.
First time for this too <_<
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 04:05:43 pm
IT IS SAW.Did you just...
4maskwolf
It's 5am and I'm remembering horror stuffs >_>
Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
. . .
Oh dear 17 people.
And most are returned players ;_;
...Argh I can't think. Questionnaire later on. Sorry.
First time for this too <_<
vote me without a question?
Why would you do that?
Ooh, do you like to play games, Tiruin?
Post by: Shakerag on August 07, 2014, 04:08:34 pm
4maskwolf: Who are you looking forward to butting heads with in this game?
Cheeetar: What's your take on claiming miller in your first post?
flabort: If you were offered the choice, pre-game, of being a guaranteed arsonist or just taking a random role, what would you do?
Imp: Do you think your pre-game banter will make you more of a target now?
PPE: You damn ninjas.
Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.
Post by: Scripten on August 07, 2014, 04:09:49 pm
Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?
4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.
Post by: Persus13 on August 07, 2014, 04:12:03 pm
Nerjin: How do BYORs differ compared to regular Mafia?
Imp: You feel ready for Mafia after a long break? Do you think you'll be making any posts as long as the Behemoth this game?
Tiruin: Who do you feel you can reliably tell whether or not they're scum?
Shakerag: Do you think the order roles were sent out and alignments correlate? Will we be switching voting methods like in a previous BYOR or did WUBA heavily nerf your role?
Wuba is awesome. I love my role.Same here. Also, be less obvious when breadcrumbing.
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 04:15:53 pm
4maskwolf: Who are you looking forward to butting heads with in this game?I don't like butting heads with anyone. Everyone is my friend.
Alright, enough breadcrumbs left, game on.
Shakerag: Is there a specific power you hope to see in this game? A specific mechanic that you hope someone has? If so, what?
PPE: Damn ninjas
4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Post by: Scripten on August 07, 2014, 04:16:37 pm
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
Wasn't meant to be a bandwagon, but we're all rushing to post right out of the gate.
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 04:19:32 pm
What happened to the other three guests? O_oOne of them died, and the other two RVSP'd late.
Post by: Scripten on August 07, 2014, 04:19:59 pm
4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Wow, you posted that in the single second between me posting and loading this page.
Banter. I thought you were trying to (heh) role play something creepy.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 04:23:48 pm
Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
Wow, you posted that in the single second between me posting and loading this page.
Banter. I thought you were trying to (heh) role play something creepy.
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 04:29:00 pm
Tiruin is your millerdom thematically appropriate to your role?
Silthuri were you disappointed by your alignment?
Varee, how do you intend to make the most out of Day 1?
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 04:36:12 pm
...
This..this isn't one of those powers which activate when you ask people a certain wording in such a way right? :I
I remember Vector.
I remember that.
I ain't answering that thing, yo. I:
Because seriously, I'm remembering that horror thing too. And wondering if I got my tone right here...bleh
Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.O_o
It's...still readable.
Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
It's only 2 superscript tags, too. I guess its a typing quirk(?) I've developed? That, and I guess it was developed out of my formatting usage in my RtD. Because tons of liberal formatting had to be used to give the writing its desired edge.
In which I must post and update that once I overcome my fear >_> bleh.
Anyway yeah.
PPE: Scrippy
Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
PPE OH COME ON 6 REPLIES x_x
Tiruin: Who do you feel you can reliably tell whether or not they're scum?Not at instantgamestart :P
My tells come from attitude--given my affinity for sentient behavior (heh, sentient...)--as well as tracking behavioral patterns and interactions between players. Motive, intent and other related ideas.
Though...err, reword question please? It's a bit confusing to answer if I get that you're asking me 'who among us[...] > tell names' or 'how do you tell if[...] > give an idea on how you value scummy peoples or such'
It's...not even an hour into the game.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
I don't think this qualifies as a bandwagon despite semi-hammers in effect.
Webadict: What is a semi-hammer?
PPE NQT
Persus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?._.
Tiruin is your millerdom thematically appropriate to your role?
*flips open dictionary*
I can't think on the meaning of thematically despite knowing it! D:
> Grammar.
Err...no? Yes? O_o
I'm guessing my millerdom is pretty much related...in a way? to my role. Because I made it go more along metaphysics. Thought being the theme. T'would've been nice if I picked B12 Forum Mafia Board as my role, but this is an example of the metaphysics of it.
...The essence, I guess? That seems more appropriate.
I believe the millerdom-ship being related to the...essence of my role when thought about...in a way.
>_<
Maybe. It depends.
How is grammar related to being a miller? I'm confused and tried to answer it in the best way possible. Gray morality? Erh?
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 04:42:24 pm
Nerjin: How do BYORs differ compared to regular Mafia?
Oh quite the rapscallion we have here folks. Ha ha, let's answer that. One could consider a BYOR to be America. Strong. Proud. Unpredicitable in composition. As opposed to some less countries which are our stand ins for regular mafia. Weak. Pathetic. Predictable. That is not to say that a regular mafia game isn't good. It's just that a BYOR is the best.
Now I have some questions for you America. If you would be so kind to indulge me.
Wuba is awesome. I love my role.
Oh, the game has started.
Hi everyone. My name is 4maskwolf. It's time to play a game. I like to play. Do you like to play.
A country is only as strong as its people. We stand, right now, at the brink of war. Questions like this make us flabby and soft. I ask you: What did you expect to occur after asking this question? I implore you, keep focused and ever vigilant.
Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
Dear Tiruin. Dear, Dear Tiruin. I'm afraid I can't quite believe that just yet. If I may ask, what exactly your role states in regards to this development? If you can be as specific as possible I promise you a full pardon for any and all transgressions. However, for now, I am forced to regard you as suspect. Though you seem to be quite guilt free at the moment.
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 04:44:40 pm
"Thematically appropriate" means, "fitting with the theme". And 'theme' here means 'collection of related ideas that make up your role'. So miller would be fitting with the role 'Undercover Cop', because an Undercover Cop is a member of the town but would look like a criminal, but it might not fit with Fluffy Bunny, as there's nothing inherently suspicious about bunnies. So you're saying 'miller' is appropriate to your role? So your saying that the role you chose is someone that presents as a bad guy. Is that right?
Post by: TolyK on August 07, 2014, 04:47:42 pm
Hello everyone. Don't feel like asking questions since I need to sleep.
Post by: Scripten on August 07, 2014, 04:49:40 pm
PPE: ScrippyTiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
Okay, at this juncture, I really should clarify that my vote was still RVS. I just prefer my RVS votes to have SOME sort of game-related justification. Though, I appreciate the more in-depth examination of theory.
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.
Post by: Shakerag on August 07, 2014, 04:52:30 pm
Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?Why don't you go back and read games that I've been in and formulate your own opinion, then?
How does one have a strong night game anyway? All you do is send in an action (or not).
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.Role playing?
Persus13:
Shakerag: Do you think the order roles were sent out and alignments correlate? Will we be switching voting methods like in a previous BYOR or did WUBA heavily nerf your role?I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?Scripten: Why you bandwagoning on Tiruin?
Are you being genuinely serious about calling bandwagoning already? :-/
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: Is there a specific power you hope to see in this game? A specific mechanic that you hope someone has? If so, what?I don't think I've ever been in a game with a jester, so I suppose that would be fairly interesting to see. Otherwise ... I'd say that I'm just expecting webadict to throw out something novel as he typically does in BYORs.
Tiruin:
Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
Nerjin: Do you have a posting restriction as part of your role?
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 04:55:37 pm
I'm prone to expounding in verbosity when asked questions that can be answered one way or the other :/Also I'm a miller. Woo first game as a miller! \o/
Dear Tiruin. Dear, Dear Tiruin. I'm afraid I can't quite believe that just yet. If I may ask, what exactly your role states in regards to this development? If you can be as specific as possible I promise you a full pardon for any and all transgressions. However, for now, I am forced to regard you as suspect. Though you seem to be quite guilt free at the moment.
Anyway in regard to that role, i sent in an...amorphous concept. The theme of Thought. It is neutral in its existence, yet may be perceived as evil by some, understood by others, and accepted by the rest. In all sense, it is...erh, like thought ._.
My role has no bearing towards being a miller, however it may be taken as..negative(?) just as much as it is beneficial. Something seemingly malevolent at first but in due process of thought, would be quite benevolent or neutral, and on the flip side something that would seem neutral or beneficial but in the later tense would be...quite bland.
Also pardon? Dear goodness do you write well.
So yeah. I'm trying my best to guess Webadict's thinking. :I Anyone try sending in a role of vanilla townie?
Think upon it.
Then think that I themed my role as Thought.
Then read my one instance that i first responded to it:
PPE: ScrippyIn orange being the essence--or the essential idea of it.Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
PPE NQTPersus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?._.
Tiruin is your millerdom thematically appropriate to your role?
*flips open dictionary*
I can't think on the meaning of thematically despite knowing it! D:
> Grammar.
Err...no? Yes? O_o
I'm guessing my millerdom is pretty much related...in a way? to my role. Because I made it go more along metaphysics. Thought being the theme. T'would've been nice if I picked B12 Forum Mafia Board as my role, but this is an example of the metaphysics of it.
...The essence, I guess? That seems more appropriate.
I believe the millerdom-ship being related to the...essence of my role when thought about...in a way.
>_<
Maybe. It depends.
How is grammar related to being a miller? I'm confused and tried to answer it in the best way possible. Gray morality? Erh?
PPPE
Tiruin, I've played games without declaring Miller d1 (Jack's byor is an example) if I believe there could be others....All games I've played in, the miller claims ~d1 ish.
Hello everyone. Don't feel like asking questions since I need to sleep.
You're the only person, on a search, who I recall does not claim Miller D1. :P
TiruinOh.
"Thematically appropriate" means, "fitting with the theme". And 'theme' here means 'collection of related ideas that make up your role'. So miller would be fitting with the role 'Undercover Cop', because an Undercover Cop is a member of the town but would look like a criminal, but it might not fit with Fluffy Bunny, as there's nothing inherently suspicious about bunnies. So you're saying 'miller' is appropriate to your role? So your saying that the role you chose is someone that presents as a bad guy. Is that right?
So Yes. However, it isn't "appropriate" for my role. Believe me when I say that the first assumption that 'hey, this is usually taken as a bad thing or entity; universal behavior or teaching applies//first impressions pertain to a negative sense about it' is not one to be taken when pondering upon my indication of miller. Thought, is one thing that is neutral, however can be taken into negative/positive with whatever you do with it.
Hilariously, webadict made my role. :I Please take my words for this that I do not want to be role-copped. Any other kind of investigative or whatever power is totally fine. Just not role cop.
PPE
Tiruin:Oh dear :s Sorry Shakerag.Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
Didn't put into mind that thing.
Will not use mini-text from now on in this thread.
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 04:59:02 pm
There are those who doubt whether or not I am capable as president. They wonder amongst themselves "Can our president post as he pleases?"
Well, America, I am sad to say that not all Presidents are given the freedom of speech that the rest of the country so enjoys. I, however, am not one of these weak presidents. I can say what I want, whenever I want. Do bear in mind, that I do this not for myself. But for you dear America. To answer your questions: No, there is no restriction on what your dear President can say.
That's all for now America. One Country. One heart. One soul. One America.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 05:00:48 pm
But query for the future Nerjin--I'll advance this before anything else: Would you differentiate when you RP your role (because fun and all) between serious Mafia scumhunting and technical RP'ing?
Also I'm waaaaaay over half of the world, America!
..Sorry Shakerag.
Post by: Silthuri on August 07, 2014, 05:04:23 pm
Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Silthuri were you disappointed by your alignment?Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun. The only way I could be disappointed is if I somehow managed to be a vanilla townie in this.
Will think of questions later. Maybe. I'm bad with RVS questions.
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 05:10:20 pm
Webadict: What is a semi-hammer?There is a set deadline, but if there has been a majority, they are lynched. By the way, 9 to Hammer. I forgot to add that part.
I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.My roles were sent in the order that I had labeled them finished. The alignment order is therefore mixed fairly well.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 05:13:03 pm
*4maskwolf does a pitiful puppy face*Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Hello America. Let's have a talk.*4maskwolf cocks his head to the side at the barrage of words, then returns to eating food*
There are those who doubt whether or not I am capable as president. They wonder amongst themselves "Can our president post as he pleases?"
Well, America, I am sad to say that not all Presidents are given the freedom of speech that the rest of the country so enjoys. I, however, am not one of these weak presidents. I can say what I want, whenever I want. Do bear in mind, that I do this not for myself. But for you dear America. To answer your questions: No, there is no restriction on what your dear President can say.
That's all for now America. One Country. One heart. One soul. One America.
President Nerjin: How do you feel about the recent theft of cake from Webadict's party?
Silthuri: What do you feel is the most annoying type of third party, should it exist?
Shakerag: Does your role name start with "The BYOR 13 Role that" again?
*cocks head to one side and listens attentively*Webadict: What is a semi-hammer?There is a set deadline, but if there has been a majority, they are lynched. By the way, 9 to Hammer. I forgot to add that part.I think webadict has been doing this long enough and is crafty enough to not send out role PMs grouped by alignment. Granted, I could be wrong, but that seems like something he would have thought of. I have no idea whether or not we will be switching voting methods this game. I'm thinking likely not as I don't recall a lot of recycled gimmicks among webadict games, but then my memory is poor and not to be trusted. I also don't know why you'd think that webadict would "heavily nerf" my role, as that doesn't make any sense to me.My roles were sent in the order that I had labeled them finished. The alignment order is therefore mixed fairly well.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 05:21:47 pm
Spoiler: Shakerag & Scripten (click to show/hide)
Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 05:23:35 pm
Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Why would an investigator worry about me at all? And the best thing 'we' can do right now? Huh. Interesting thought process.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 05:25:05 pm
4maskwolf, the emotes aren't a posting restriction are they?*tilts head to side*
I'm uncertain as to why it matters. Are post restrictions a major thing?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 05:26:51 pm
Why would an investigator worry about me at all? And the best thing 'we' can do right now? Huh. Interesting thought process.
In the absence of anything noteworthy. An investigator might worry about you because functionally they're useless against you- if they receive the result of scum, that information is worthless because you've already claimed miller.
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 05:29:41 pm
Only one question so far?
flabort: If you were offered the choice, pre-game, of being a guaranteed arsonist or just taking a random role, what would you do?Hi, I'm flabort, I don't think I've actually met you before outside discussion leading up to this specific game. If I recall, you're the person responsible for those very special roles that Webadict grumps about?
Ah, as for the question. Looking up arsonist... hmm... Well, I'd certainly shy away from being a third party, due to my experience with such being that I can't play them well. Having a kill suits my idea of how I should play, though, especially a virtually unblockable one, but I think I would go with the random role.
4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?
Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
Flabort Hi. Are you POT-aDoS? No. Are you Mexi Fries? No. Curly fries? No.
Imp Hello. I hear you're a returning player? What is your impression about each player you haven't played with before?
IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?
Jiokuy If you couldn't die, ever, how would you take the most advantage of that? How would you react to a player who's role made them completely immortal?
Nerjin Who do you think would claim if they were really a Miller? Who do you think would keep it to themselves?
notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?
Persus13 Let's say you picked the Death Note for your role, and your a SK. You can kill someone each night, but you can choose for their death to come later, and you can set post restrictions on them. How do you best utilize this power? Let's say your one-shot is to switch roles with some-one, too. How do you best use that to your advantage?
Scripten How do you best make use of a multiple voting role?
Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?
Silthuri if you had the ability to intercept any actions targeting someone, and have them affect you, based off initial impressions who would you intercept for?
Tiruin Let's say you're not a miller, but a jester. Would you still have claimed miller? What would you be doing different if you were a miller or a jester?
Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
TolyK How much time does work and sleep take away from the average Mafia player? How often should a Mafia player be posting?
Varee If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?
PPE: 11 replies. OK, nobody addressed me-tato in any of them.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 05:35:06 pm
Not really, 4mask, but I think it's pretty funny if that's what Webadict is making you do.Tiruin Let's say you're not a miller, but a jester. Would you still have claimed miller? What would you be doing different if you were a miller or a jester?Heck no. Even if my goal is to die, I won't lie about something that has no connection to me at all or would prove any benefit to me in anyway.
I'd be aiming to live to Day 2 then probably scum it up, however my goal would be to proving a tangle to the weave of interactions so that I would in the very least aid scumhunting. Because in all cases that I'm not Mafia, I'm pro-Town. Yeah, even as a SK :V
If I was a miller I'd...claim right away that I'm a miller more on because of the many implications carried with it. Most of which I believe is better inferred than said, given the base suspicion it entails. The powers of presumption are also strong in miller claims, so if I was a miller I'd at least play best to who I am in principle as a player--doing it honestly or doing an outright lie. The threat is little and apparent if I can't be consistent.
If I was a jester (given that jesters win upon lynch)...I'd very well scumhunt beforehand, then suitably--if properly done--attract scum, and then get scum to try to catch me via subtle manipulation [generalizing here], then I'd concede to my lynch via flailing, subtly!
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 05:36:46 pm
Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
That's a thing?
Sent from my iPhone.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 05:37:53 pm
Whoohoo! I don't have to miss the whole day, and things are looking up, too; discussions as to whether or not I have to go with the family are underway.*4maskwolf pokes around the post for a bit before dragging out the part relevant to him*
Only one question so far?flabort: If you were offered the choice, pre-game, of being a guaranteed arsonist or just taking a random role, what would you do?Hi, I'm flabort, I don't think I've actually met you before outside discussion leading up to this specific game. If I recall, you're the person responsible for those very special roles that Webadict grumps about?
Ah, as for the question. Looking up arsonist... hmm... Well, I'd certainly shy away from being a third party, due to my experience with such being that I can't play them well. Having a kill suits my idea of how I should play, though, especially a virtually unblockable one, but I think I would go with the random role.
4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?
Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
Flabort Hi. Are you POT-aDoS? No. Are you Mexi Fries? No. Curly fries? No.
Imp Hello. I hear you're a returning player? What is your impression about each player you haven't played with before?
IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?
Jiokuy If you couldn't die, ever, how would you take the most advantage of that? How would you react to a player who's role made them completely immortal?
Nerjin Who do you think would claim if they were really a Miller? Who do you think would keep it to themselves?
notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?
Persus13 Let's say you picked the Death Note for your role, and your a SK. You can kill someone each night, but you can choose for their death to come later, and you can set post restrictions on them. How do you best utilize this power? Let's say your one-shot is to switch roles with some-one, too. How do you best use that to your advantage?
Scripten How do you best make use of a multiple voting role?
Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?
Silthuri if you had the ability to intercept any actions targeting someone, and have them affect you, based off initial impressions who would you intercept for?
Tiruin Let's say you're not a miller, but a jester. Would you still have claimed miller? What would you be doing different if you were a miller or a jester?
Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
TolyK How much time does work and sleep take away from the average Mafia player? How often should a Mafia player be posting?
Varee If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?
PPE: 11 replies. OK, nobody addressed me-tato in any of them.
4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?Erm...
Okay, semantics point here, if I'm up at four in the morning it means that I just woke up, not that I haven't had sleep. And I'm a morning person, so...
But rephrasing it to "11 pm". If extends are available in this hypothetical game and the day ends tomorrow, vote them, extend, and go to sleep. If the day does not end tomorrow, vote them and go to sleep. If there are no extends and the day ends tomorrow, yell at them, point out how stupid they are being, vote them, and go to sleep.
I get irritable when I'm tired.
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 05:47:10 pm
Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun.Are you implying that you're a third-party?
Tiruin, you're saying miller is fitting for your role but not appropriate? Please be clear. Also, are you claiming 'Thought' was the role you sent in to Wuba? If so, could you explain why this was given 'Miller': what is the justification?
Flabort
notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 05:53:23 pm
My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
"THIS IS NOT crumb: I just wasting your time"
:'(
Post by: IronyOwl on August 07, 2014, 05:56:37 pm
But why? What made you think "Hm, because of _____, I'm going to claim Miller as my first post of the game, thereby accomplishing ______."Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
Cheeetar:
Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
What happens D2?
flabort:
IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
NQT: Your malignant pro-bunny, anti-cake agenda has been noted.
Silthuri, when would you bus an ally as scum? Would that answer change as the game progressed?
Imp, do you trust Tiruin's miller claim?
Varee, would you rather have a roleblock or a kill? Follow or protect? Powerful one-shot or weak infinite use?
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 06:01:33 pm
Tiruin, you're saying miller is fitting for your role but not appropriate? Please be clear. Also, are you claiming 'Thought' was the role you sent in to Wuba? If so, could you explain why this was given 'Miller': what is the justification?>_>
Do you want me to try to outguess the mod? Because that's what I tried to do.
Do you want me to try to say 'this is how webadict made my role' instead of how I believe he interpreted it and made stuff up for it instead?
I can do that, but it'll complicate this a TON LOT MORE THAN IS EVEN NEEDED THAT WOULD BE IMPRACTICAL. With emphasis in capitals.
I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x
Let me ask you one thing.
Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed? Sure, I can understand the townie quality of curiosity but herein you aim for a concept that is short to fullclaiming? It's like you're seeing my role as I interpreted it and that webadict just followed the contours. If it would help, I only gave a theme for Web. Nothing else (other than the specifications in the OP).
It's like just because I claimed miller you've the right to wring everything out of me. And the FoS for emphasis? I don't care if I die. I care if I die to such details like these in the process, however.
Allow me to justify thought, then.
Try to philosophize how mankind, sans the usage of resources, gets its problems. Let's leave that for you, in thought.
PPE
Tiruin:I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.But why? What made you think "Hm, because of _____, I'm going to claim Miller as my first post of the game, thereby accomplishing ______."Tiruin: Instant miller claim. Why claim so early in the game, Tiruin?It's more of a null claim, actually.
Here in B12, I've been amongst the discussions of a 'mandatory D1 miller claim' usage and have more on been leaning that it was a neutral tell than any kind of town idea given that such incorporates either diverse planning, suspicion and psychological aspects of the player, or the consistency of the role, the dayplay and the interactions between players. I'm doing this merely to poke at an aspect of my role.
Thinking along the idea the instance of this is for investigators: I'm either town miller or scum playing miller; neutral in the aspect of having the interpretation of it to...everyone else, actually. Doesn't matter much until value is placed on it however I give it as a note for advance--given the associative value of being a miller, it will be up to those who deem my attitude connected to whatever-may-be-important-to-them as an important note.
Meaning: How you interpret this is mostly based on how you...interpret it. I'm pointing more on others' interpretations here.
All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.
Post by: Persus13 on August 07, 2014, 06:03:52 pm
NQT:
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
I'll have a larger more serious post up in the near future.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 06:05:03 pm
Walls of text, already?You try explaining miller in reference to your role and outguessing the mod that way. :v
NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 06:14:28 pm
Cheeetar:Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
What happens D2?
We'll have all of Day 1 and Night 1 to make some informed decision off of. Do note: I'd prefer a much longer day than just us lynching Tiruin right now, but I do see it as our current best plan.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 06:19:01 pm
You'd do well to expound on that 'plan' Cheeetar. There's so much more out there and you're leaving that space unclaimed by the label of 'best'.Cheeetar:Idea: Lynching Tiruin is currently the best thing we can do right now- if she's miller, we save the trouble of investigator worrying about her. If she's scum, we killed a scum.Cool, I like this plan.
What happens D2?
We'll have all of Day 1 and Night 1 to make some informed decision off of. Do note: I'd prefer a much longer day than just us lynching Tiruin right now, but I do see it as our current best plan.
PFP
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 06:30:36 pm
I haven't quite seen anybody openly scummy yet, but I look with great suspicion on the miller claim- worst case scenario a miller's gone. The current plan is to lead a lynch against you after getting everybody's opinions. Their agreement/disagreement/neutrality, as well as the reasons they give for it, will be a very valuable thing to town regardless of the outcome of the plan.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 06:32:13 pm
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 06:38:17 pm
FlabortInteresting abbreviation. Esperanto isn't very commonly used. Nor is a Caesar Shift of THIRTEEN.notquitethere What is your costume's favorite food? What is your favorite food? Did you eat the cake? What is your opinion on starch?My costume likes food that's on a cocktail stick in a cocktail glass filled with cocktail. My favourite food is pasta but only if it's with the right kind of sauce: it has to have fried onions in it. Maybe onions are my favourite food then. I am also quite partial to the crunch of pears but I also find them a little lacking. I probably didn't eat the cake as I don't like cake. It's too rich and sweet for my tastes. I am pro-starch. Do you know what my role is yet?
Is your role a Caesar Cocktail?
Google translate is coming up with Estonian, but if I turn it around (because TQN is obviously backwards), it's Icelandic. Neither way comes up with a result. ??? I don't know WHAT Persus is saying there at all. Good thing he's not addressing it to me, then.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
Jack A T, do you agree with my proposal?Zombie Urist in Supernatural 7, IIRC. Yeah.Cheetar Hi, I don't recall playing with you before. What is your stance on "PFP Players", players who only ever seem to post from phone?
That's a thing?
Sent from my iPhone.
Heck no. Even if my goal is to die, I won't lie about something that has no connection to me at all or would prove any benefit to me in anyway.Alright, makes sense, post formatting aside.
I'd be aiming to live to Day 2 then probably scum it up, however my goal would be to proving a tangle to the weave of interactions so that I would in the very least aid scumhunting. Because in all cases that I'm not Mafia, I'm pro-Town. Yeah, even as a SK :V
If I was a miller I'd...claim right away that I'm a miller more on because of the many implications carried with it. Most of which I believe is better inferred than said, given the base suspicion it entails. The powers of presumption are also strong in miller claims, so if I was a miller I'd at least play best to who I am in principle as a player--doing it honestly or doing an outright lie. The threat is little and apparent if I can't be consistent.
If I was a jester (given that jesters win upon lynch)...I'd very well scumhunt beforehand, then suitably--if properly done--attract scum, and then get scum to try to catch me via subtle manipulation [generalizing here], then I'd concede to my lynch via flailing, subtly!
Sure. Well, really late works. Thanks for the honesty, though I notice all possibilities are OMGUS; I guess if they had no proof, it would be deserved.4mask Hypothetical: It is 4 AM, on day 2. Your brain is tired, and someone just accused you without any proof. How does your tired brain react? Do you wait for the morning to refute, or do you respond immediately?Erm...
Okay, semantics point here, if I'm up at four in the morning it means that I just woke up, not that I haven't had sleep. And I'm a morning person, so...
But rephrasing it to "11 pm". If extends are available in this hypothetical game and the day ends tomorrow, vote them, extend, and go to sleep. If the day does not end tomorrow, vote them and go to sleep. If there are no extends and the day ends tomorrow, yell at them, point out how stupid they are being, vote them, and go to sleep.
I get irritable when I'm tired.
flabort:Well, not like I want to go; it sounds like I might not have to now, at least. We'll see; depends how tonight goes IRL.IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
Shakerag and Tiruin are not options? You wouldn't trust Silthuri with your spot?
Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?Yeah, it means posting from phone. Basically, short mobile post where you don't have time to create one right.
No. I don't think Webadict would do something like that. I mean, it's already an acronym that means something, if it were a secret scum word that they have to use to breadcrumb communications between each other instead of being able to use a traditional scum chat that would be completely and totally unfair to them. That's something for the "Bring your own Bastard Role" game :P
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 06:42:14 pm
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 06:48:40 pm
I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.Curious. Also, there are many ways to classify thought. I spent a good few years of my life studying philosophy that aims to do just that. But you haven't made any attempt to explain why 'thought' would come up 'scum' under inspect. And also, why are you so keen on not being role inspected?
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x
Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed?
It's like just because I claimed miller you've the right to wring everything out of me.If I say that I've got cake-destroying powers, I'd want people to ask how cake-destroying comes under the purview of my role. If I said I could mix a fine martini, I'd want people to ask whether martini-mixing was relevant to my role. You've claimed miller, if you're not able to say how that's relevant to your role then I'm going to have to lynch you as lying scum. Don't claim what you can't justify.
Allow me to justify thought, then.Sure, there are lots of problems mankind that aren't directly related to resource use. I don't see what that has to do with how 'Thought' justifies 'Being a Miller'.
Try to philosophize how mankind, sans the usage of resources, gets its problems. Let's leave that for you, in thought.
Persus, I figured whatever you're trying to say has been reversed as I can make out 'vegan' and 'NQT'. It's not a language I recognise so I gather there's been an additional level of manipulation. I doubt you've said anything enlightening, so I concede to your superior powers of obfuscation. How do you feel now my vote is on Tiruin?
Flabort, mi estas un Esperantisto. Multajn talentojn havas mi. Mi ne estas 'Caesar Cocktail', sed vi estas proksimeta.
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 06:55:37 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 06:57:03 pm
Spoiler: 4mask does something that wastes space and time (click to show/hide)
Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.
Post by: notquitethere on August 07, 2014, 06:59:54 pm
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2014, 07:08:33 pm
WubaYes. Because that's clever. Ats rnldsghmf khjd sghr htm's (But something like this isn't.) The reason being is that players could hold conversations by sharing keys or what have you, and basically making it completely unfair to other players. If you can hide an entire sentence inside your post (Every fifth letter or the start of each sentence), that's fair game.Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 07:16:39 pm
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!WubaYes. Because that's clever. Ats rnldsghmf khjd sghr htm's (But something like this isn't.) The reason being is that players could hold conversations by sharing keys or what have you, and basically making it completely unfair to other players. If you can hide an entire sentence inside your post (Every fifth letter or the start of each sentence), that's fair game.Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Got it boss. Breadcrumbing (like, first letter of every sentence etc.) is still ok, right?
Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
No, it wasn't intended to be cute. You know what's cute. A Labrador. You know what's cute? A little puppy. My posting style is not intended to be cute. Please calm yourself down and use your vote in a manner that is in accordance with the needs of the town. Thank you, and goodbye.
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 07:21:19 pm
Flabort, do you believe that Random Voting at the start of day 1 aids the town at all? If so, why aren't you using your vote? You seemed slightly passive in the way you responded to 4maskwolf. Also, what do you think of my plan?I think that random votes are just that: random. They have no bias towards helping town or helping scum.
It's the questions that we associate with the votes that aid the town. The questions, Ser Cheeetar.
Let's say a vote is a square knife with four sharp edges and no handle. Without that handle, the vote is as likely to hurt yourself as it is to hurt someone else. But a question is a long pole. A long pole can be used to test for traps, it can be used to test the depths of the waters, it can be used as a weapon if you're against using sharp objects, it can be used to balance yourself. And you can fix a knife to it to turn both into a spear, a highly effective weapon, especially against charging cavalry.
Yes, I was somewhat passive in the way I responded to 4mask. His answer to my question was such that I almost didn't feel it warranted a response, since the context was that in the situation his brain was tired.
What plan, Cheeetar? All I see is you urging a Tiruin lynch.
Flabort, mi estas un Esperantisto. Multajn talentojn havas mi. Mi ne estas 'Caesar Cocktail', sed vi estas proksimeta.Ah, I have to say that Google Translate failed on that last word. :P My best guess is "close". Augustus Caesar? Caesar's Casino?
Ah, it doesn't matter. I guess I'm role fishing again :P
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.Aw, but some of us enjoy this, and cryptology with no purpose is no fun :P
J qtrqnyl xg'op utb uq lght jv sgoeyncmui tkptqk? Just some slightly varied replacement ciphers? Oqwlntn zqx oghh b lgb gqu.
Fine. No more. I guess I'm done that. (Keys? Keys?! I'm insulted. Using a key to encrypt a passage is downright rude if you're not a computer. And way, way too time consuming)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 07:23:10 pm
4maskwolf, do you think my plan is incredibly stupid?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 07:29:30 pm
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.Me?
4maskwolf, do you think my plan is incredibly stupid?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
I think it's a perfectly legitimate plan, in the absence of major scumtells. It just feels kind of... Unfair to the person if they were, in fact, saddled with miller. If a miller is lynched in the absence of scumtells, then getting miller as part of your role becomes a death sentence, I can see the logic in it, but I'll abstain from voting a miller in preference of others. If the day winds down and nothing major comes up, I'll consider it, but a part of me would feel bad if I lynched a claimed miller just because they had claimed miller.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 07:32:44 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 07, 2014, 07:37:47 pm
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 07:40:08 pm
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.That, I don't agree with at all. Claiming post investigation just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to save your own scum hide, where as claiming before anyone has a chance to investigate has a chance to be telling the truth.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 07:44:15 pm
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.
Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 07:52:27 pm
Sounds impossible.
Yeah, claiming miller when it's true is to avoid being mislynched, but not just after investigation: at all.
The way you're interpreting miller, it sounds like you'd have to be psychic to play it right.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 07:59:29 pm
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 08:09:31 pm
interpret from that that they've been investigated,And are you assuming that millers have a power that tells them that they got investigated? It wouldn't show up in their flavor unless they had such a power.
And that's the problem with your assumption.
If the flavor does tell everyone and anyone that they got investigated, then the scum would know if they got investigated too and claim miller the way you're saying a miller should.
Post by: Nerjin on August 07, 2014, 08:16:39 pm
[/quote]Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. . . . Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would . . . prove is] that you don't particularly care about your vote, . . .
No, it wasn't intended to be cute. . . . [C]alm yourself down and use your vote in a manner that is in accordance with the needs of the town. . .
I'm not in the mood to argue. Just don't waste people's time with walls of text that don't need to be wall of text.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 08:22:30 pm
interpret from that that they've been investigated,And are you assuming that millers have a power that tells them that they got investigated? It wouldn't show up in their flavor unless they had such a power.
Drat. I was assuming that you'd get some sort of account of the night previous- "you went and did thing to X, and also while you were doing that some guy rifled through your stuff."
If the flavor does tell everyone and anyone that they got investigated, then the scum would know if they got investigated too and claim miller the way you're saying a miller should.
The scum would probably wait until the investigator claimed as well before claiming miller if they knew they'd been investigated- if only so they could target him during the night phase. If anybody claimed before the investigator claimed ("I have been investigated during the night, I am a miller, sorry investigator!") it's possible to proceed to discussing that ("Are they really a miller or just getting out of an investigation?") normally without the investigator having to claim. I understand this might not always happen! I brought it up purely as a possibility.
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 08:52:28 pm
Imp: Do you think your pre-game banter will make you more of a target now?
It might, which could be useful. Do you view my pre-game banter as useful or meaningful to you?
Scripten:
Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?
I actually don't know. I've played.... a total of 4 games, mid-game subbed into a fifth, and started a 6th that got cancelled after N1. So I haven't really played enough to tell, and I've just come back from about a 6 month break. Not sure I have a suite, strong or weak, but whatever I have I'll bring. That said, I tend to talk a lot. A LOT. But I have far less time than I did, and that should work to keep me from flooding excessively.
Persus:
Imp: You feel ready for Mafia after a long break? Do you think you'll be making any posts as long as the Behemoth this game?
Ready for -this- mafia, yes. I like supernatural but BYOR12 was the mafia game where I learned mafia could be (should be?) fun. I'm ready for fun. Behemoth posts... sure hope not, don't think I have that much time.
Flabort:
Imp Hello. I hear you're a returning player? What is your impression about each player you haven't played with before?Utterly haven't had much time to form them yet. Ideally, by my ideals, I'll be tracking each one of you (new and old; in 6 months even players I 'knew' ((hah, for a handful of games' interactions)) may well have changed greatly) and using intuition and interaction patterns, interpret what I see and feel into something that may mean something about you all as players and alignments. Until I have firmer impressions, you're all 'I don't know' to me, even if I thought I knew you once.
IronyOwl:
Imp, do you trust Tiruin's miller claim?Haven't decided yet, not enough information. Tiruin has both lied and told the truth very smoothly in the past. I am not extremely and deeply concerned about it; at worst Tiruin is identified, as Cheeetar stated directly, as either a miller or as a Scum. Unless she has a power that activates if someone tries to investigate her alignment, and makes something she doesn't want to happen change if she is investigated. Like, dunno, if she picked 'Sub-atomic Particle' or something like that, which you can determine the position of, -or- the speed of, whichever you determine sends the other upon a wild change. I'm looking at everyone and thinking about everyone as best I can.
Cheeetar:
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:Ehh, I usually won't random vote. In general, I vote for reasons and my vote usually means I want them hung; rarely it means I want their attention and think I haven't been getting it previously; maybe someday I'll find another reason to vote for people. (Nerjin for re-election, woo!)
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
Is a miller vote the best possible use of a vote D1, in this game specifically? If I decide it is, everyone will know, because that's how I'll be voting. At this time, I don't have enough information to feel ready to vote.
4maskwolf: You profoundly 'gave up' and I dare say 'self destructed' in our first game together, where we both subbed into a newbie game under some difficult circumstances at about the same time. Do you still do things like that when you play Mafia?
notquitethere: Have you already started your spreadsheet for this game? If yes, what do you now consider the most important thing(s) to track? If not, do you still use spreadsheets? If not, why not?
Nerjin: You're our president, so.... you're saying most of us have voted for you at some point. Are you up for re-election soon, and are you asking for our votes?
Scripten: I'm tempted to step on you, just in case. Do you intend to use much coded/hidden message stuff in your posts? What value do you see in placing hidden messages in your words?
Also, all this role playing is quite fun.[/abbr]
Since you say you like the RP going on, do you intend instead to join it more directly, or is it something you'd rather observe?
Shakerag:
Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.
If you want to read it, copy/paste it into notepad or something, or just quote the post. Since you probably knew of at least both of those options, why'd you claim you couldn't read Tiruin's tinywrite?
Cheeetar: How much time to play this game do you have? Would you say your posts need to be rushed, or are you able to relax and enjoy this game? Also, I'm pretty new to Mafia and I've never played in a game with a Miller before. But millers -are- Town, are they not? And in a BYOR, a miller may have useful powers that are helpful to Town. Am I wrong about this possibility? Can you explain why miller dead, even if miller-is-milller-not-Scum is the best possible lynch for Town for this day?
Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?
PFP, which for me means posting from profession: I'm at work. Some of you got ignored, for now. I'm well aware of it.
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 08:57:52 pm
Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 08:58:48 pm
Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
Soo, you say you're doing this just for fun? Not because it has any strategic purpose of value for you at all?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 09:04:20 pm
4maskwolf: You profoundly 'gave up' and I dare say 'self destructed' in our first game together, where we both subbed into a newbie game under some difficult circumstances at about the same time. Do you still do things like that when you play Mafia?eheh.
Eheheheheheheh.
Good times, good times.
Well, let's take a poll.
Everyone: Have I ever "given up" in a mafia game you have seen me play, barring the over dramatized giving up post I made in Jack's BYOR when I was fakeclaiming martyr and my first two games (my first BM and Wuba's last game)?
Post by: Jack A T on August 07, 2014, 09:06:47 pm
However, I feel that I need to say something quickly, before this miller debate (the primary role of millers, as far as I can tell, is to generate debates about millers) gets too cringeworthy.
Cheeetar: Even with some sort of way for millers to know when they've been acted on, why should they create strategies that depend on them being online earlier in a new day than theoretical investigators? What makes that better than just being transparent about the misinspection issue and making sure that the small chance of a wasted inspection becomes a 0% chance?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.Please clarify: is the "risk of a mislynch" you mention the risk of being investigated and then mislynched, or the risk of being mislynched once one has been investigated? That is, is the risk small due to the low chance of being investigated, or due to there being a low chance of being lynched once investigated?
If the former, why shouldn't a miller try to eliminate a rather small but very easily eliminated chance of being mislynched, or at the very least a rather small but very easily eliminated chance of an investigation being wasted? Is it not more helpful to the town for a theoretical miller to both minimize the chance of a mislynch and maximize the chance of the cop investigating actual scum?
I'll deal with everything later.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 09:07:12 pm
Tiruin, why do you not want to be rolecopped?
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 09:20:18 pm
Eh, pretty much. Isn't that what the game's about? Fun? It wouldn't be a game if it weren't.Soo, you say you're doing this just for fun? Not because it has any strategic purpose of value for you at all?Flabort: You're salting your post pretty heavily with clues about a possible role you may have. Why?Why not-ato? It's not like I have anything BAD this time around that might get me lynched. No kill, no miller, no vote steal... nothing tater-ly controversial.
I'm trying to be very light hearted in this one after being more serious in my other plays. I'm not going to be making mistakes, either, but I'm trying to be more mirthful. Spud-full, if you will.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 07, 2014, 09:26:15 pm
I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?
All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.
flabort:
To be honest I'm not familiar enough with either of them anymore. Well, I think I'm still reasonably familiar with Tiruin, but her posts tend to make my head hurt. :Pflabort:Well, not like I want to go; it sounds like I might not have to now, at least. We'll see; depends how tonight goes IRL.IronyOwl Hi. Let's say you needed a replacement in some other game, and the GM had to choose from the players in THIS game. Which of the players would you want the GM to pick? Which would you least trust to take over for you?Probably Jack AT and... hm. The only thing I recall about Jiokuy is that he got lynched D1 elsewhere, and I'm not familiar with Scripten at all. You're possibly not the greatest choice what with barely existing until D2.
Shakerag and Tiruin are not options? You wouldn't trust Silthuri with your spot?
Silthuri I would better know as... MOWE? I know I should remember more of her than I do, so into the unknown bin she goes.
Cheeetar:
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:I think it's a useless water-treading crutch. Making up our minds that we're going to lynch the most obvious target unless someone else confesses reduces the effectiveness and motivation of scumhunting, which gives us an even more useless D1 than normal. I think that if we can't find a better target than a first-post-confessed Miller, we should man up, accept that we're fucked regardless, and lynch whoever said the wrong thing at the wrong time and then dug themselves a hole with it, just like normal.
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite smallThese first two seem to cancel each other out, don't they? If the odds are low, why bother with it as scum either?
Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.
Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?
What about the third makes post-investigation claiming townier than pre-investigation claiming? It's still a self-preservation no matter when you apply it.
4mask:
eheh.Super7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5473553#msg5473553) You came back eventually, but it wasn't quick or clean. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5473671#msg5473671)
Eheheheheheheh.
Good times, good times.
Well, let's take a poll.
Everyone: Have I ever "given up" in a mafia game you have seen me play, barring the over dramatized giving up post I made in Jack's BYOR when I was fakeclaiming martyr and my first two games (my first BM and Wuba's last game)?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 07, 2014, 09:36:47 pm
Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia. I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past. That's not to say I won't play well: I will. I'm just sick and tired of playing the game. Or any game, for that matter.
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 09:39:23 pm
That's different. My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).
Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia. I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past. That's not to say I won't play well: I will. I'm just sick and tired of playing the game. Or any game, for that matter.
What do you still like about Mafia?
What did you once like about Mafia?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 09:48:11 pm
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Nope- not the best use of Day 1. But it's a great way to get people talking. I think the conundrum presented to the investigator is troublesome, and to lynch Tiruin we wouldn't have to worry about the miller possibly being a scum at all- it's better than a random townie dying, in my opinion.
As to my posts possibly being 'rushed'- I suppose that's just how I play. I'd like to infect the game with my enthusiasm for posting, if at all possible. I'll have plenty of time to post, and it is entirely possible I will annoy some people with the quantity of my posts.
Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)
It's not a 'strategy'- I'm saying even in the eventuality of the miller being investigated (quite low should they act like town and scumhunt), it is not a given that they will then be lynched. If we are to say that a miller claiming is towny, wouldn't every scumteam have a scum claim miller in every game? I don't believe a day 1 claim of miller is helpful to the town, no.
Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)
I believe it is evident enough. If you have an issue with understanding my post, please point out a particular problem and your current interpretation and I will try to ease understanding.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 09:52:43 pm
Spoiler: IronyOwl (click to show/hide)
Claiming first thing is anticipatory self preservation- You are worried about being lynched, and are doing what you can to lower the chance of it happening. To a scum, the effect of one of their number dying is more severe than it is to a townie, and it makes sense for them to be worried about being investigated.
I think claiming after investigation is less scummy because there is absolutely no reason for a town or a scum to not do it- town would be trying to avoid a wasted day and opportunity to lynch a scum.
Post by: Imp on August 07, 2014, 09:54:07 pm
Under what circumstances do you think an investigator should check a claimed Miller?
What would you do if you were an investigator, and checked a claimed Miller, and got a Town result?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 09:57:25 pm
Cheeetar:
Under what circumstances do you think an investigator should check a claimed Miller?
What would you do if you were an investigator, and checked a claimed Miller, and got a Town result?
Be very, very confused. Suspect that I'm a defective investigator, or I was redirected, or shenanigans were occuring. I don't think an investigator should ever check a miller unless they somehow had an ability that let them see through miller.
When I say the investigator has to 'worry about the miller', I mean that their ability is then essentially useless against one person who may well be a scum.
Post by: Toaster on August 07, 2014, 10:29:26 pm
Claiming Miller in your very first post is a good practice, and is a null tell.
This is a practice I've strongly believed and followed all the way back to Paranormal 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77045.0), in which I did just this and was able to catch scum D1 over it. Also that game was three years ago holy shit has it been that long
TL;DR it tells cops ahead of time what result they would get from inspecting that person, and lets them inspect other people instead. If a townie claims that truthfully, then they saved the investigator an action and possibly prevented a mislynch, while a scum fakeclaiming that probably won't get investigated. In both cases, a rolecop can see the truth. In short, it's a null tell.
Anyway.
Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
IronyOwl: Would you rather have a one-shot full rolecop or a regular doc ability?
NQT: What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?
Persus: If you had a one-shot kill, how strongly would you have to suspect someone to shoot them?
Post by: flabort on August 07, 2014, 11:04:44 pm
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 11:09:50 pm
Claiming Miller in your very first post is a good practice, and is a null tell.
This is a practice I've strongly believed and followed all the way back to Paranormal 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77045.0), in which I did just this and was able to catch scum D1 over it. Also that game was three years ago holy shit has it been that long
TL;DR it tells cops ahead of time what result they would get from inspecting that person, and lets them inspect other people instead. If a townie claims that truthfully, then they saved the investigator an action and possibly prevented a mislynch, while a scum fakeclaiming that probably won't get investigated. In both cases, a rolecop can see the truth. In short, it's a null tell.
Alright. In the event of a miller not claiming on day 1, would that be scummy?
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 11:27:01 pm
TiruinI'm being condemned because I'm trying to explain why the mod game me miller in lieu of why I've this kind of role >_>I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.Curious. Also, there are many ways to classify thought. I spent a good few years of my life studying philosophy that aims to do just that. But you haven't made any attempt to explain why 'thought' would come up 'scum' under inspect. And also, why are you so keen on not being role inspected?
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x
You've spent a good few years of your life studying philosophy?
I'm in a psychology course just to get my theories credited, and given my professor's commentaries and opinions on them, they're quite well-received. They are regarding the sphere of thought and human interaction.
I am being blamed for something out of my control--how a moderator interprets my role, and how I explain why I got miller? You append a series of blame to it because I somehow can't clarify it for you?
Wow NQT. That's pretty low of you. Why I'm 'so keen' on not having my role inspected is because it'll end up MAFIA. Are you trying to be obfuscating or are you seeing something I'm not even in the most blatant of logics? <_<
Find me a game where a Miller was a mostly innocent idea in the first place, because the method of your approach is flawed in its foundations. If you cannot, I'm free to hang, but let me tell you that it was in the interpretation of the moderator that led to being a miller in most cases--for the rest, it seems more on just getting miller.
The only short way I can actually prove whatever 'veracity' you've got there is by role/nameclaiming, which I will not do due to my recall of mechanics also working on the idea of knowing people's names and the semantics within it--it was a thing in BYORs, and by far that is what I see in your ideas here, NQT.Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed?Oh you're right Tiruin, I'm questioning another player in a game of mafia too much, I sure better back off right now.You make a bold claim, I'm doing my job of questioning the veracity of that claim.
You believe that I'm a miller, or in the least do claim miller--is my effort on trying to explain why I am a miller too much for you to handle or do you want to go off on a tangent that'd waste both of our energies? I lack any indication on why it is so bold or important for you to dwell on, and lest it be me explaining for myself, you need to clarify your foundation before anything else unless we go into misunderstandings.
Your usage of sarcasm is not well-received. It's like you're inflating my situation and playing it off with a handwave.
Very rude.
Quote
If I say that I've got cake-destroying powers, I'd want people to ask how cake-destroying comes under the purview of my role. If I said I could mix a fine martini, I'd want people to ask whether martini-mixing was relevant to my role. You've claimed miller, if you're not able to say how that's relevant to your role then I'm going to have to lynch you as lying scum. Don't claim what you can't justify....Yeah, downplay an analogy by relating it to food or the concept of physics.
If I'm not able to see how relevant to my role, then I'm lying scum~
How the heck do you want me to see relevance in a mod's decision!? Lying scum for what!?
Quote
Sure, there are lots of problems mankind that aren't directly related to resource use. I don't see what that has to do with how 'Thought' justifies 'Being a Miller'.>__>
For a credited 'philosopher', you're pretty jaded in ideas. Or rather, you lack in expounding on them and instead use the threat of the lynch to try to squeeze some details--details which I cannot find or explain myself--in order to create an implication or show that you're scumhunting in a way.
I've already debunked and blunted your point before you showed it--I'm already attributing the case of me being a miller because that is how the MODERATOR interpreted my role! If you see anything wrong with that, ask me directly instead of poking vaguely and playing around.
Is your aim to know my rolename or not?
Have you missed my obvious cue. THOUGHT. THERE?
Ugh. You vote me for not being direct yet you cling yourself to the idea that you're scumhunting by asking me something I can't even answer.
Guess what--I'm repeating that idea again. Implicate me enough yet, sir?
@Cheeetar: I want a full explanation on your thoughts regarding the miller claim and I want it now. You're dancing around the bush with the assumption and tone of an interrogator facing me, and I'd like you to clarify your position beforehand.
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.AGAIN you use the term 'better' yet your foundation on the idea is vague at most.
Details. I'm repeating myself here by asking you that.
Let me try to stab you with the same jarred point you're facing at me.
I'm a miller. I'm town, yet inspect as miller. The only problem this puts me is with investigative types.
If I don't claim--or in the least find a way to input the idea that I'm a miller and then ge tinvestigated as scum--what can I do to deflect it at a later date? Psychology to you: The implication of a cop-claim is rooted deep in the Mafia player's psyche that only those who are curious enough to approach it with an open-mind would be those who would question the idea in its entirety. Given that this is a BYOR, an amalgamation of roles able to poke you from any which way are pretty much a common staple, adding to the many ways a misinterpreted target would be put down.
Imagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.
Is this it?I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Why?
The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.
Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?
By gods on high I thought what you were thinking would be...deeper as a reason when in all actuality I'm being voted by such a superficial idea!
Chances!
How does a person value their target, Cheeetar? Does the majority--encompassing most players you've seen in your playing time, shoot randomly, especially if they have an investigative role?
Enlighten me.
Next, you brought up a post that seems very out of place.
What was the purpose of this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552669#msg5552669)?
Have you gone blind or are you forgetful of Mafia terminology?
It's in the bloody BM.
But I digress.
Quote
It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?It seems you are too steeped enough by the perception of you scumhunting that you're finding many other ways to 'hunt' instead of consulting the most basic resources at hand, huh.
What did you think of when I said PFP?
PFP
I like how I get 2 replies every preview. That's...what. 6 posts now? >_>
Cheeetar: Given your level of...investment into the posts you make and how many you're able to, I expect a clarified remark on your ideas there.
They are superficial and rely on the logic of 'chance' to persuade.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 11:34:10 pm
Tiruin:Particular-...What?I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?
All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.
It's all up to you to believe me--considering the replies I've had, it was believed. :V
If you want to actually believe in it, contrast and compare my attitude instead of the bloody label.
It's pretty much a heads-up that I'll inspect as scum no matter what.
How believable is that to you, because I can't understand what's your motive or your thoughts behind the observation there.
Could you explain, just like Cheeetar?
Tiruin, why do you not want to be rolecopped?. . .
I'll pull out the dictionary for you. A Miller (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Miller) in most sense is someone who would give an unfavorable result when investigated or acted upon by an investigative role.
Why I do not want to be rolecopped is that I'd appear as scum. It's a waste of an investigation-so I'm putting it out already beforehand.
...
Oh dear gods I think I found the (well, pertinent) explanation why webadict poked me as miller (well, anyway, it's enlightening but...)
Knowing that webadict is a veteran ever since the first game, it would be meritous in his position to know how to play the game well. Given the stance of Miller in any situation--wherein they are investigated or not, I believe it would be in the weight of those who judge it where most of the suspicion lies. It's a bloody paradox with how it is felt and taken, as akin to the law system IRL, the weight and impact of an investigator is very much valued by society.
...Yeah, still needs thought on the matter for y'all to get that but that's my best interpretation of it.
That's different. My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).:-\
Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia. I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past. That's not to say I won't play well: I will. I'm just sick and tired of playing the game. Or any game, for that matter.
This is particularly the reason why I asked you in that one game we're playing before this. NQT's masquerade?
Yeah. That one RVS question.
It's getting to your nerves.
Post by: Tiruin on August 07, 2014, 11:37:21 pm
Tiruin. Why exactly did you claim? Would you please explain how you believed your claim would help town? Until such a time as you've explained this, I feel my vote is best used on you.*points up*
I had felt that everyone beforehand knew the implications of a miller, but it seems its...the obvious is hidden in plain sight.
I'm a miller. A miller, checking definition--and this is where I assumed everyone would already get the gist you ask here--already has a disadvantage by existing and playing the game. Given that it is tied with a very precise, accurate, and time-held traditional role that carries a load of weight on a player's value, it is a crucial aspect to the game yet in itself also does not play out as a foolproof method--the claiming, that is.
You 'feel' your vote is best yet you explain beforehand that your 'way' is "better".
Better than what, I ask? Search the term 'better' and you'll see it in all your posts regarding voting me off. Superlative, best.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 07, 2014, 11:54:30 pm
Spoiler: Response to & Quotes from Tiruin. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 12:04:42 am
Quote
I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?
Quote
And how does that help you?QuoteImagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.
Quote
For an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)That's better, now. Clarity.
It isn't something done by chance unless the investigator lacks experience in what they do and just wishes to shoot blindly--a choice, rather.
It is a matter of thought and analysis. Will mood be the determinant of the action or will you think about using something which can be used as a limited resource in a given timeframe, wisely?
Is it still chance that way?
Or is there something I'm missing when you used chance as a reference?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 12:12:58 am
QuoteI'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?
My initial thought was that a townie wouldn't make the discussion about themselves- they wouldn't be all too worried about being investigated anyway. A claim doesn't aid the town, so there's no need for it, and they'd focus on scumhunting.
QuoteAnd how does that help you?QuoteImagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.
As town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.
QuoteFor an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)That's better, now. Clarity.
It isn't something done by chance unless the investigator lacks experience in what they do and just wishes to shoot blindly--a choice, rather.
It is a matter of thought and analysis. Will mood be the determinant of the action or will you think about using something which can be used as a limited resource in a given timeframe, wisely?
Is it still chance that way?
Or is there something I'm missing when you used chance as a reference?
In my opinion, it's chance of a sort. Perhaps somebody with a much more analytical mind would be able to finger the probable targets of the investigator, but to a simple mind such as my own, it'd seem as if it were anybody's guess in regards the person to be investigated.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 12:39:48 am
Indeed it is--but the worry comes from what others will do no matter what happens, right? Who, in a general sense, would want to make the discussion about themselves? I'm very doubtful that a townie in any sense would do that.QuoteI'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?
My initial thought was that a townie wouldn't make the discussion about themselves- they wouldn't be all too worried about being investigated anyway. A claim doesn't aid the town, so there's no need for it, and they'd focus on scumhunting.
Unless they're jester-types but that's also subjective.
Now a townie in that prospect has the note of being scum due to being a miller--it's a 'chance' in that instance, to use your understanding, but a possibility all the same. It is a null tell in that you cannot prove it unless I am dead or there's some kind of special 'true'cop role out there which can validate it; still justified by the weight it holds.
A claim doesn't aid the town. Yes, if you use the general idea in this context. And to probably specify it: An opinion does not aid the town, but it gives information. A claim related to the usage of abilities to uncover information is useful to the town.
However when the claim contradicts that which is the town's greatest weapon: the lynch, then that is where a claim may most likely aid the town, yes? However only in the case if I am investigated. The latter sentence is more of a condition and situation in itself rather than a chain to connect to the result. A claim with direct relevance this way, is up to the viewer on how it will aid them.
Quote
As town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.Your claim is weighed against the claim of an investigator.
Post by: Imp on August 08, 2014, 12:47:11 am
Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
I have played a lot of Mush the Dawn these last few months. It's an investigative game, though actions (including movement), inactions, and choices made are the major things to investigate, with tons of coordination but not so much discussion that would help determine who that game's scum are. And scum there are killing converters with a lot of other powers.
I've played some Town of Salem.
I'm no longer fascinated by Mafia. Still interested, but not all gung ho.
So lots of related similar game experiences but no longer overfocused on the game.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 12:54:09 am
Jiokuy, has any of that which has been said so far stuck out as particularly scummy to you, or seeming to come from a scum perspective?
QuoteAs town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.Your claim is weighed against the claim of an investigator.
The investigator's claim of me receiving a scum result on investigation wouldn't conflict with my own claim- it'd merely confirm that I was either miller or scum.
Post by: Jack A T on August 08, 2014, 01:29:46 am
Shakerag: Has your role screwed everyone over yet? If not, when will it?
Varee: Do you consider your efforts to fake cluelessness in my BYOR to have been pro-town? Hypothetically, how would you react if you discovered that someone new to the forum was doing similar things in this BYOR?
Tiruin: By rolecop, you mean alignment cop, right? Because the latter's the one that learns alignments. The former learns roles.
Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.
Also, Cheetar, what is this silliness about claiming after instead of before?4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: I'll deal with this later. I don't really feel like digging through Google Drive right now, sorry.
MILLER STUFF AHEAD
At some time, I feel like I should dig through the subforum, find all the miller debates, and write up an extended review of the debates to point to whenever a miller debate starts.
If Tiruin is really a miller, I will eat Webadict's birthday hat.Cheeetar: Is a miller claim really that huge a scumtell to you, or is there something else that leaves/left you so absolutely convinced of Tiruin's scumhood?
Jack A T, do you agree with my proposal [to lynch Tiruin for claiming miller]?No. Your plan is a lazy policy lynch that isn't even based on good policy. I do not support lazy policy lynches. I do not support discouraging millers from doing what they can to minimize wasted inspects.
Spoiler: Cheeetar's strangely uncertain statements (click to show/hide)
It is true that it is not a given that they will be lynched. It is merely a near certainty, as opposed to an absolute certainty. Nobody would take the "I'm a miller and I decided not to tell you until my neck was on the chopping block oh and the cop wasted an inspect!" defense seriously.It's not a 'strategy'- I'm saying even in the eventuality of the miller being investigated (quite low should they act like town and scumhunt), it is not a given that they will then be lynched. If we are to say that a miller claiming is towny, wouldn't every scumteam have a scum claim miller in every game? I don't believe a day 1 claim of miller is helpful to the town, no.Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)
While there is a school of thought on millers in which D1 miller claims are seen as strong town tells on this forum (based on meta: scum almost never claims miller D1, while millers almost always claim miller D1), it is not the dominant one. I, and most other players, view D1 miller claims as generally null tells: claiming miller as a miller minimizes the chance of a wasted inspect and the chance of a mislynch based on that inspect, making it the optimal town play, and optimal town play is generally good scum play.
Is there a reason, beyond some stuff about odds that doesn't make up for the fact that the reduction of low odds of significant harm to town in a harmless way is of value, for your belief that the benefits I noted do not make D1 miller claims from millers pro-town?
...however true it may be, it [claiming miller] seems to me something that a townie would not do.And yet townies do it. You already saw Toaster noting his views and that it was his standard practice. Is there a reason this assumption continues even after it has been shown that townies do it?
PPE:
Alright. Given the resolution of my suspicions, I'll unvote Tiruin.Cheetar: Fascinating. Do you still think Tiruin is lying about being a miller, or has that suspicion been negated? Is this unvote primarily based on the negative reaction to your case?
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 02:38:51 am
TolyK How much time does work and sleep take away from the average Mafia player? How often should a Mafia player be posting?I'm surprised that this is the only question to me, but with this many people...
I don't know how much people actually work at work, but 8-10 hours of sleep and 8 hours of work leave 6-8 for mafia. Seriously, though - probably at least twice a day, but more if they are holding an important discussion (5 at least?).
Some notes.
- Post-explosion! Or rather an explosion of posts.
- Holy crap. Jack and Irony are playing. I must have missed that.
- Op lets me as replacement when I've already replaced :p but that probably means the lack of questions.
The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.I think it's possible to have more scum tells d1 due to 17 players.
4maskwolf, do you think my plan is incredibly stupid?
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
So it's a dumb plan, yes.
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.Nah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.
Claiming Miller later is more suspicious, but possibly more useful to the player if the chip doesn't reveal themselves yet.
Oh, and the only precaution that should be done, imo, is just tracking him. Or rolecopping.
But lynching over it is silly. The discussion that it generated is good though.
I can't really think of any good questions, but since RVS has practically ended I'll look for some more stuff.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 02:48:59 am
The investigator's claim of me receiving a scum result on investigation wouldn't conflict with my own claim- it'd merely confirm that I was either miller or scum.Err...yeah. Hence my point on the matter. >_>
...Also, Resolution? Is this more of a personal thing or am I missing something?
Shifting to NQT:
What is your underlying philosophy with how I can explain my role; is it associated with my claim of being a miller? Is it somewhat related to how I can explain myself, rather?
Question sheet!
Imp
Mmm...fascinated =/= overfocused?Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
I'm no longer fascinated by Mafia. Still interested, but not all gung ho.
So lots of related similar game experiences but no longer overfocused on the game.
I'm a bit confused by the terms but I associate fascinated = interested//something good. :x
What do you mean by fascinated? Did it become...bad?
IronyOwl
Black or white morality, how do you see that in terms of a Mafia game?
Meaning: What do you base your judgement of seeing someone as scummy by? Their attitude, wording, emotional-attachment...?
Cheeetar: What makes a person scummy in your eyes and do you mean all words you say, when you say them? Are they to be taken as-is?
flabort: Why do you use intricate methods of analogy in questions to certain people? Is it a shift of viewpoint or is there something up with your wording there?
4maskwolf: Right, this is where I bring that question back again. In the situation of being chided or seemingly being faced with abrasiveness, do you think it is better to act proactively or act reactively? As in, the former being a response which is calm and collected versus the response that lies with emotions and has more 'impact' in a sense?
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Tiruin: By rolecop, you mean alignment cop, right? Because the latter's the one that learns alignments. The former learns roles....Yeah. Alignments >_> Sorry.
Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.
Also, no? Webadict was creative with the terminology of my role so all my powers are dependent (as in, I'm amorphous~) or better termed 'shift' according to the amount of players. :v This 'fun' is not the DF 'fun' but more...amusing how he structured it.
What webadict said wasn't that I'm a miller but that I'm [REDACTED] - I inspect as Mafia. Which means Miller. I'm not claiming the abilityname because prior experiences with abilities (ie Remember that note I told 4mask early today? Yeah, that's my thoughts on it.)
That's it. He just said...I'm a miller. It's in a list along with my abilities reminiscent of how webadict writes his character sheets.
Or do you mean for me to ask him why he made me miller? <_< Because that kinda question seems...err. Err. It seems Err.
Also, CanLII?
PPE
TolyK
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- Holy crap. Jack and Irony are playing. I must have missed that.You don't view the players list a lot, do ya? :P
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- Op lets me as replacement when I've already replaced :p but that probably means the lack of questions.You replaced someone?
Query for ya since you mentioned a tangent:
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Nah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.I remember one game wherein you were a miller, was caught and didn't claim at the start--could you give insight regarding that matter? How did it feel for you? How did you regard the first person to poke you on it?
Claiming Miller later is more suspicious, but possibly more useful to the player if the chip doesn't reveal themselves yet.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 02:52:24 am
Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.
This, and other posts asking for information about Tiruin's role beyond that of being a miller- still scummy, even if you ask timidly.
Spoiler: More Jack A T stuff and responses (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 03:02:15 am
The investigator's claim of me receiving a scum result on investigation wouldn't conflict with my own claim- it'd merely confirm that I was either miller or scum.Err...yeah. Hence my point on the matter. >_>
...Also, Resolution? Is this more of a personal thing or am I missing something?
Resolution, just as in- my suspicions were resolved. Perhaps I'm improperly using the word. To state it simply: The miller claim to me now seems unsuspicious.
Cheeetar: What makes a person scummy in your eyes and do you mean all words you say, when you say them? Are they to be taken as-is?
I say what I mean, and I mean what I say (at the time in which I say & mean it.) I do like to provoke discussion, however, and exaggerating or downplaying what I say tends to help with that.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 03:51:38 am
Rereading.
PFP
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 04:48:28 am
TolyKSometimes, sometimes)Quote- Holy crap. Jack and Irony are playing. I must have missed that.You don't view the players list a lot, do ya? :P
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Hapah, before the game started.Quote- Op lets me as replacement when I've already replaced :p but that probably means the lack of questions.You replaced someone?
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Query for ya since you mentioned a tangent:AFAIR, I was ready for the questioning to start at any moment, but wasn't really ready to do anything about it. There was a Miller claim before that, so u was suspicious of them, and everyone was suspicious of me.QuoteNah, don't agree. Claiming up front is really risky for scum unless they have a pseudo-miller ability.I remember one game wherein you were a miller, was caught and didn't claim at the start--could you give insight regarding that matter? How did it feel for you? How did you regard the first person to poke you on it?
Claiming Miller later is more suspicious, but possibly more useful to the player if the chip doesn't reveal themselves yet.
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 05:39:43 am
In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:Trouble with policy lynches is, if they're on town they give scum an easy way of not making a case.
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
Imp
notquitethere: Have you already started your spreadsheet for this game? If yes, what do you now consider the most important thing(s) to track? If not, do you still use spreadsheets? If not, why not?No, not yet. I usually wait to see if I survive until Day 2 before putting in that level of investment. The most important things to track are the same: player engagement and strength of cases, and whether players are actively fostering suspicions. I measure these in different ways (I don't want to go into too much detail: as you know, scum have been known to game the metrics I've tried following in the past).
Toaster
NQT: What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?Ask me this again on Day 3. I have an answer but if I tell you now, scum might change their behaviour accordingly.
Do you think not being able to read the posts will affect your scum hunting?
Tiruin
(Before I begin, I want to reiterate that I reiterate that this is not a personal attack, I think you're swell etc. I'm just playing the game.)
Wow NQT. That's pretty low of you. Why I'm 'so keen' on not having my role inspected is because it'll end up MAFIA. Are you trying to be obfuscating or are you seeing something I'm not even in the most blatant of logics? <_<Why should you care about being inspected when you've openly said you're a miller?
Find me a game where a Miller was a mostly innocent idea in the first place, because the method of your approach is flawed in its foundations. If you cannot, I'm free to hang, but let me tell you that it was in the interpretation of the moderator that led to being a miller in most cases--for the rest, it seems more on just getting miller.If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:
(auto) Deviance: Your entertain all manner of strange thoughts and so come up as Mafia on inspection.
(night) Conceptualisation: blah blah blah.
(one-shot) Abstraction: blah blah blah
I want to know what the bold part is for your miller status.
You believe that I'm a miller, or in the least do claim miller--is my effort on trying to explain why I am a miller too much for you to handle or do you want to go off on a tangent that'd waste both of our energies? I lack any indication on why it is so bold or important for you to dwell on, and lest it be me explaining for myself, you need to clarify your foundation before anything else unless we go into misunderstandings.You've made the bold claim here Tiruin: you're saying that you will appear as scum on inspection. You know who else appears scum on inspection? Scum. All too often players just accept other people's claims without pushing them on it. I know that you're more than capable of fake-claiming, so I want to test that by questioning you. I'm not wasting anyone's time here, I'm playing the game.
If I'm not able to see how relevant to my role, then I'm lying scum~It was very obvious to me how each of my role powers fit in with the concept I sent Wuba. Is there [size=18]anyone else[/size] who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent? If you're unclear, you know you can just ask Wuba, right?
How the heck do you want me to see relevance in a mod's decision!? Lying scum for what!?
Is your aim to know my rolename or not?I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.
Have you missed my obvious cue. THOUGHT. THERE?No, I figured that's what you were claiming was your role (or something related to thought).
Ugh. You vote me for not being direct yet you cling yourself to the idea that you're scumhunting by asking me something I can't even answer.You can definitely answer my questions. I'll even restate what I'm now asking for in a very clear way. You can ignore the rest of the above and just respond to these two things if you like:
1. What is the name of the (auto) power that gives you 'miller'?
2. If you're not sure how miller fits with the idea you sent to wuba, could you ask him to clarify?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 05:59:22 am
If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:
(auto) Deviance: Your entertain all manner of strange thoughts and so come up as Mafia on inspection.
(night) Conceptualisation: blah blah blah.
(one-shot) Abstraction: blah blah blah
I want to know what the bold part is for your miller status.
NQT, the point at which you asked for the explicit name of the auto-role was more than a little suspicious.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 06:19:44 am
When I said ability-name stuff, I mean its symbolic.
I'm Unlucky = Miller. [You show up as Mafia on inspects paraphrased]
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Why should you care about being inspected when you've openly said you're a miller?@__@
Didn't I say I don't? >_>
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If I understand your claim correctly, you're saying you're not sure why Wuba gave you 'miller' because it doesn't fit particularly with the concept you submitted. There's a very easy way to resolve this: just tell me the name of the auto-role that gives you the miller status. Then I can see whether it thematically fits or not. So I'm crystal clear, imagine this is your role PM:@1st paragraph: Yes.
(auto) Deviance: Your entertain all manner of strange thoughts and so come up as Mafia on inspection.
(night) Conceptualisation: blah blah blah.
(one-shot) Abstraction: blah blah blah
I want to know what the bold part is for your miller status.
It is Unlucky.
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.
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You've made the bold claim here Tiruin: you're saying that you will appear as scum on inspection. You know who else appears scum on inspection? Scum. All too often players just accept other people's claims without pushing them on it. I know that you're more than capable of fake-claiming, so I want to test that by questioning you. I'm not wasting anyone's time here, I'm playing the game.So why do you ask me to interpret why the mod would make me a darn miller?
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I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.Now that's a brilliant piece of scumhunting <_< Hey let's claim miller for the lolz!
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You can definitely answer my questions. I'll even restate what I'm now asking for in a very clear way. You can ignore the rest of the above and just respond to these two things if you like:I'm failure sure in that its in the interpretation which qualifies it as miller.
1. What is the name of the (auto) power that gives you 'miller'?
2. If you're not sure how miller fits with the idea you sent to wuba, could you ask him to clarify?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 06:42:39 am
I'm Unlucky = Miller. [You show up as Mafia on inspects paraphrased]Ok thanks. And is Unlucky a word that fits with your concept?
@__@You said "don't inspect me". I can only take that one way, that you don't want to be inspected.
Didn't I say I don't? >_>
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.No, I just taking the smallest efforts to check whether you're lying.
So why do you ask me to interpret why the mod would make me a darn miller?Because it should be obvious. Wuba isn't some kind of mystic poet: his roles and role powers make sense with the concepts he's given and should be clear to the person who sent the role in.
Now that's a brilliant piece of scumhunting <_< Hey let's claim miller for the lolz!How is this relevant to what I'm asking? I'm trying to ascertain whether you're telling lies and you're not filling me with much confidence.
I'm failure sure in that its in the interpretation which qualifies it as miller.Could you rephrase this sentence so it's clearer please.
Thank you for answering one of my two questions. Now could you tell me whether 'Unlucky' is an appropriate power name for the role you sent in?
To make sure I'm super clear, here are three pairs of role names and role power names. Can you spot which one is inappropriate?
NECROMANCER
Raise Dead (night) - blah blah
BUNNY
Chartered Accountancy (auto) - blah blah
THE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Cheetar, I'm trying to ascertain whether Tiruin is telling the truth or not about her claim. I'm no asking about anything that isn't relevant to what she's already declared. Do you have a problem with this? What level of scrutiny would be more appropriate?
Post by: Varee on August 08, 2014, 06:47:36 am
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Varee, how do you intend to make the most out of Day 1?Well...... First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
Flabort
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Varee If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?Hmm interesting question. I would say I will be going with scooby doo. yeah...... weird question with a weirder answer?
Irony
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Varee, would you rather have a roleblock or a kill? Follow or protect? Powerful one-shot or weak infinite use?I prefer a power heavy role as I like to relia on info more than scum hunting. Just the amount of stuff that pop up while I sleep is way too much for me to sort though in the morning. So it would be roleblock. Follow and infinite power. I really have a hard time using one shots unless there a plan i have in mind like the CYOR games. Follow is always nice way to gain info. and a kill is always hard to decide to use.
Jack
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Varee: Do you consider your efforts to fake cluelessness in my BYOR to have been pro-town? Hypothetically, how would you react if you discovered that someone new to the forum was doing similar things in this BYOR?I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet. I think it is not so bad to fake noob as you are most likly to pull it off once and in that byor it was close to the end so i decide to do it.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
ppe and NQT ninjaed me ....
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 06:52:41 am
Cheetar, I'm trying to ascertain whether Tiruin is telling the truth or not about her claim. I'm no asking about anything that isn't relevant to what she's already declared. Do you have a problem with this? What level of scrutiny would be more appropriate?
To ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 07:00:01 am
NQTI wait in giddy anticipation.QuoteVaree, how do you intend to make the most out of Day 1?Well...... First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?That's pretty lynch-worthy. Even if you're town, that sort of laziness means you can't be trusted to make the right choice at LYLO.
TolyK, do you intend to let a mislynch happen today?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 07:03:55 am
To ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.It's not likely a role-power thief would steal miller. Tiruin said she didn't know why Wuba had made her a miller. I'm contending that it should be bloody obvious from the name of the auto that gives her miller. If she'd said she knew why she was a miller, I'd have dropped the issue. It's only because she continues to make suspicious claims, I'm continuing to press. If I'm so suspicious though, why aren't you voting me?
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 07:08:17 am
whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?As a universal rule, players when citing RL as a reason have that reason as a sanctum for not being able to do 'x'. If your internet didn't break down--why even lie about it at all?
There are limits to how far your alignment will let you act, and pulling RL into the game of Mafia as an excuse, when it is not and yet used as an excuse, is far beyond any behavior that is acceptable.
The alternative is lurking and not saying a word for it. Because (see: Lie, cited above).
Nyuh.Cheetar, I'm trying to ascertain whether Tiruin is telling the truth or not about her claim. I'm no asking about anything that isn't relevant to what she's already declared. Do you have a problem with this? What level of scrutiny would be more appropriate?
To ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.
I regarded NQT's poking as part of his persona, really. It matches how I view him--he pokes and pokes and pokes the curious specimen, going from tangent to tangent then delivers all details ad maxima...errm, as a whole--the subtle details left out in his interrogation process would show at that area.
And I do see my question on why you're asking it not yet answered, NQT
PPE Three replies, not two. Huh.
TiruinYes.I'm Unlucky = Miller. [You show up as Mafia on inspects paraphrased]Ok thanks. And is Unlucky a word that fits with your concept?
...I have no idea. -_-
Maybe.
* Tiruin flops.
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You said "don't inspect me". I can only take that one way, that you don't want to be inspected....Because I'm a Miller? And it'll show scum eitherwhichway?
Or was it my wording again? :S
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No, I just taking the smallest efforts to check whether you're lying....And what basis do you have for it? Inconsistency? If so, go poke at it please. I wish to know.
Because short of asking me to roleclaim, that's where I see it going.
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Because it should be obvious. Wuba isn't some kind of mystic poet: his roles and role powers make sense with the concepts he's given and should be clear to the person who sent the role in.Eeeeeyeeaaahh.
He's some kind of mystic poet on why he picked that name :v It is irrelevant, however.
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How is this relevant to what I'm asking? I'm trying to ascertain whether you're telling lies and you're not filling me with much confidence.:\
Looking at the trivial piece of snippings to the coupon does not make the coupon invalid. It makes you feel it is but your confidence, by this, seems based on every word I say then? It was relevant in a way that I checked your word of:
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I actually just wanted to know whether it fit in with the rolename. If you'd have said 'yes, it fits with the role' then I'd have probably dropped it. Now I want to know what the role-power name is that gives you miller.This.
Because seriously. I have no idea why I have that term. I focused more that it designates me as Mafia when inspected rather than the term itself.
Are you making the notice that you may have something attached to the names of things more obvious or what? That is a valid ability seen before, by the way.
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Thank you for answering one of my two questions. Now could you tell me whether 'Unlucky' is an appropriate power name for the role you sent in?...Well, a Tsunami usually has aftershocks related to it and the pacific ocean is more Ocean rather than the oceanic crust the energy originates from so I'd go with Tsunami.
To make sure I'm super clear, here are three pairs of role names and role power names. Can you spot which one is inappropriate?
NECROMANCER
Raise Dead (night) - blah blah
BUNNY
Chartered Accountancy (auto) - blah blah
THE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Necromancers raise dead due to etymology of the principle/name and it is possible for a Bunny to have the intellectual ability, as an Automatic power, to perform Accountancy. In its own way, anyway.
But seriously: It's the bunny. Though it may make sense in that manner how the bunny may be able to [Chartered Accountancy]
My best guess is Wubbawubs chose Unlucky because of some historical data I had no idea about in that role. In these matters: I HAVE NO IDEA! Dx
There's a difference between feigning falsities and actually admitting that you have no idea regarding whatever falsehood is presented or implied in the context presented to you and I'm of the latter.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 07:13:15 am
The concept of being Lucky or not in accordance with my role lies in the sphere of interpretation rather than a distinct and tangible fact. "Common" (though I doubt it, pertaining to a more 'elder' belief rather) in other countries that aren't the Philippines.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 07:18:33 am
CheetarTo ask for the exact name of the role is suspicious. It leads me to think there is a reason you want the exact name rather than an explanation of how it ties in.It's not likely a role-power thief would steal miller. Tiruin said she didn't know why Wuba had made her a miller. I'm contending that it should be bloody obvious from the name of the auto that gives her miller. If she'd said she knew why she was a miller, I'd have dropped the issue. It's only because she continues to make suspicious claims, I'm continuing to press. If I'm so suspicious though, why aren't you voting me?
I'm not sure how exactly a scum would benefit from affecting Tiruin's miller auto in some way. I just think there's more to it than wondering why Tiruin was given miller. Do you think I need to vote for you? Is there not enough pressure for you to answer adequately without a vote?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 07:24:43 am
Do you think I need to vote for you? Is there not enough pressure for you to answer adequately without a vote?Saying I'm 'suspicious' is empty if you don't think it's worth lynching over. I'm going to answer your questions regardless of whether you think me suspicious.
Tiruin
OK. You've show sufficient engagement with the question that I now believe your claim. Unvote.
Wolf
In the absence of any other tells, is it okay for us to quicklynch you before you have a chance to enact some complex gambit? Don't tell me you're not tempted by gambits.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 07:53:33 am
TolyK, do you intend to let a mislynch happen today?Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not. If I knew the subject was town (godfathers?!) then I would prevent it by all means.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 08:01:42 am
CheetarDo you think I need to vote for you? Is there not enough pressure for you to answer adequately without a vote?Saying I'm 'suspicious' is empty if you don't think it's worth lynching over. I'm going to answer your questions regardless of whether you think me suspicious.
I think registering suspicion is important. If something sticks out to me, I'll note it publicly. Perhaps I should be keeping a journal with your name in it and a love heart next to it and have written all the times I've thought of you, but posting in this thread is the way I've chosen to record my thoughts & suspicions.
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 08:06:17 am
Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not.A mislynch=member of the town being lynched. Most likely not? So a little bit likely to?
Cheetar
OK, I think looking back I was overstating my point. Do you intend to converse with everyone on Day 1?
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 08:07:09 am
TiruinB-but..my questions.
OK. You've show sufficient engagement with the question that I now believe your claim. Unvote.
What about the answers to my questions ._.
...There are multiple definitions of mislynch other than the obvious?TolyK, do you intend to let a mislynch happen today?Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not. If I knew the subject was town (godfathers?!) then I would prevent it by all means.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 08:11:13 am
Cheetar
OK, I think looking back I was overstating my point. Do you intend to converse with everyone on Day 1?
All 16 other people? No. I can't do this all on my own- I'm no Superman.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 09:05:26 am
TolykIt could possibly be bad to do so - if I think someone is town but that would require revealing my role in a dangerous situation (where my role could do better for later), then I might not risk myself for someone else.Depends on what you mean by mislynch exactly, but most likely not.A mislynch=member of the town being lynched. Most likely not? So a little bit likely to?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 09:07:03 am
What questions, Tiruin? What was left unanswered?
OK Cheet. I usually do, but I might not as I'm pretty busy at the moment.
Interesting Toly. Do you have any questions for me?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 09:48:33 am
WolfI guess you can. I'm not that invested in staying alive this game, so in the absence of other tells, I offer myself as tribute.
In the absence of any other tells, is it okay for us to quicklynch you before you have a chance to enact some complex gambit? Don't tell me you're not tempted by gambits.
I'm not tempted by... oh who am I kidding, I live for complex gambits. Of course, past experience has proven them ineffective, but still.
It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.Also, Cheetar, what is this silliness about claiming after instead of before?4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.
I seem to remember Tiruin dropping a massive question on me, let me see if I can find it...
4maskwolf: Right, this is where I bring that question back again. In the situation of being chided or seemingly being faced with abrasiveness, do you think it is better to act proactively or act reactively? As in, the former being a response which is calm and collected versus the response that lies with emotions and has more 'impact' in a sense?Heh, the question looked bigger on my ipod. Which is better? Calm and collected. Which am I likely to do? Emotional.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 10:06:44 am
Interesting Toly. Do you have any questions for me?Yes - why the question initially?
Also, do you think the miller discussion was all that necessary?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 10:12:54 am
The miller discussion was the most game-relevant thing to happen so far. I questioned Tiruin until it became clear she was most likely telling the truth. Do you think I should have accepted it at face value.
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 10:53:38 am
flabort: Why do you use intricate methods of analogy in questions to certain people? Is it a shift of viewpoint or is there something up with your wording there?I can't say I'm entirely sure what you mean. Could you point out where I used analogy (besides Jack, and it's more reaction test than analogy there)?
Honestly analogy seems to be second nature to me (If I remember what analogy means correctly). I likened restless leg syndrome to a mouse running on a guitar neck for the doctors, and they asked me to stop describing before they get it the visual metaphor was so complete.
So when you say shift of viewpoint, I'm completely confused by that.
FlabortNo, nothing weird about your answer at all. I mean, my question is quite random, but it is/was RVS, which implies random.QuoteVaree If you were to pick a different role, knowing the alignment you would be, than the one you picked, what role would you pick for your repick?Hmm interesting question. I would say I will be going with scooby doo. yeah...... weird question with a weirder answer?
Post by: notquitethere on August 08, 2014, 11:00:57 am
Yup, definitely got out of camping. whew.But camping is the best...
Post by: Toaster on August 08, 2014, 11:05:20 am
Flabort:
Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
Arsonist. I've always wanted to be one, and it's a hilarious asshole role. The thought of getting a "Kill everyone" button really appeals to me.
Are any of the questions you asked advice on how to play your own role?
I got permission to stay! I won't be absent at all it turns out. :D
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.
Not near as bad as I thought, though I'm only up to your post so far.
Have you been reading this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130326.0)?
Also, yeah, camping is awesome.
NQT:
Do you know what my role is yet?
William Shatner?
Do you think not being able to read the posts will affect your scum hunting?
It's a temporary thing (more at the end of the post; I should point it out) but no, not long term.
THE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Considering Tiruin lives in an area where Pacific tsunamis are a legitimate concern, I'd say that was the inappropriate one.
Cheeetar:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?
If we don't have anything better D1, then we weren't trying enough. Lynching a first post miller claimant is essentially a random lynch. Hell, I'd rather lynch the person who proposed it.
I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.
Malarkey.
You honestly wouldn't call bullshit on someone claiming miller in response to a guilty inspect? I sure would.
Varee:
whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
In this board, you occasionally see the policy lynch of "Lynch all Liars" come up. Does that answer your question? (In more specific terms, I'd say the example you posted is less of a scum move and more of an asshole move; we try to respect IRL issues here and lying about them makes it harder to do that.)
V/LA: I'm having LASIK on the 15th. It'll limit my ability to stare at a computer screen for a week or so, but not so much that I won't be able to play. That day and the following weekend I'll surely be out, but the next week I'll be here; just less than usual.
Post by: Persus13 on August 08, 2014, 11:14:13 am
Persus responds to other people's posts. Part 1 of ??: Posts #94-145
Scripten:
Wasn't meant to be a bandwagon, but we're all rushing to post right out of the gate.Good answer.
NQT
Persus, why aren't you bandwagoning Tiruin?Because I'm busy doing other stuff, and Tiruin tends to get mad when suddenly attacked from all sides for no apparent reason.
Nerjin:
Hello America. This is your President, Nerjin, presiding. I think it's time for us to have a little chat, if you don't mind. But before I ask questions of you, a concerned citizen has written to me with regards to a question they have.Wow, Are you going to do this all game?Nerjin: How do BYORs differ compared to regular Mafia?
Oh quite the rapscallion we have here folks. Ha ha, let's answer that. One could consider a BYOR to be America. Strong. Proud. Unpredictable in composition. As opposed to some less countries which are our stand ins for regular mafia. Weak. Pathetic. Predictable. That is not to say that a regular mafia game isn't good. It's just that a BYOR is the best.
Shakerag:
Are you being genuinely serious about calling bandwagoning already? :-/No, I don't think I've played with Scripten before so I did that to see how he would deal with pressure.
Tiruin:Zoom in on it, that's what I always do.Yes, I know. And I seethe every time I see it. Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.Tiruin: Why are you using that damn tiny text? Are you trying to hide something? Obviously you must be fake-miller-claiming scum then.Also I do it everywhere on the forum.
Flabort:
Persus13 Let's say you picked the Death Note for your role, and your a SK. You can kill someone each night, but you can choose for their death to come later, and you can set post restrictions on them. How do you best utilize this power? Let's say your one-shot is to switch roles with some-one, too. How do you best use that to your advantage?I wouldn't pick Death Note as a role. I'm also not going to give advice on how best to use your role. Besides, I've never played with post restrictions.
You'd probably be able to recognize that I had reversed the first and last letters if I hadn't translated what I was saying into Swedish.Google translate is coming up with Estonian, but if I turn it around (because TQN is obviously backwards), it's Icelandic. Neither way comes up with a result. ??? I don't know WHAT Persus is saying there at all. Good thing he's not addressing it to me, then.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
Tiruin:
I am, sortof. I also can use Google Translate.NQT::'( I thought you were Canadian.
AörbannF re TQN. Nägev lilt aidjm nim dit.
4maskwolf:
4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
Cheetar:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?No. Discouraging people from claiming miller is a terrible idea, and that's what a D1 miller policy lynch would do. If you're a town miller, claiming first post D1 prevents a wasted inspect from an alignment cop, which would almost certainly result in the lynch of a town player and the reveal of an important town role to scum, likely causing said investigator to be killed in the night or repeatedly blocked, preventing them from being useful. A town player claiming D1 prevents this from happening. If scum fakeclaim miller in their first post, it causes them to start fakeclaiming as early as possible, which means that they have to be consistent with that the whole game. Fakeclaims tend to be problematic over time, so the earlier scum makes one, the better it is for town. Secondly, claiming miller always gets a lot of attention and pressure, which is always good, especially when the person claiming miller is scum because scum generally want to avoid attention. I'm pretty sure that if we have an role cop of some form, they will be inspecting Tiruin tonight to see whether her claim holds up. The fact that an alignment cop is useless on miller doesn't really matter as much as you think because scumhunting should remain the primary method of finding scum, and there are other roles besides alignment cops that can be used to find scum.
If you were a town miller, what would you do?
Webadict:
Just an FYI, posting coded messages is considered cheating. We're not here to play the long con on cryptography. I don't want hash function roleclaims, because those claims tend to end in modkills.All I did was say something along the lines of "Curse you NQT: Why did you waste my time?" but you've made your point.
Can we get a votecount?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 11:23:42 am
Cheeetar: Why do you believe that preemptive measures are a scumtell?
Flabort: Why in all flavor of damnation did you avoid camping?
Imp: What do you believe is the best survivor strategy?
IronyOwl: If you were a watcher, what types of powers would you want in order to accomplish your wincon.
Jack A T: Do you think Wuba's interpretation of your role is awesome? Good? Perfectly fine? Poor? Dismal?
Jiokuy: If you were a serial killer without a reliable kill, how would you go about playing the game?
Nerjin: Why are you so irritable?
notquitethere: How is your spreadsheet going?
Persus13: You have replaced in numerous times for various people in mafia games. Do you believe there is anything good about replacing in that you wouldn't get by starting in the game?
Scripten: Including this one, how many mafia games have you played/are playing in?
Shakerag: I haven't really played with you all that much. What is your favorite part of Wuba's BYORs.
Silthuri: You've been around about as long as I have, right? What is your favorite game of mafia you have played in so far?
Tiruin: What do you believe is the biggest scumtell on day one? Does the biggest scumtell change as the days progress?
Toaster: What in particular appeals to you about the arsonist?
TolyK: Are you happy with your role? Did it live up to your expectations?
Varee: Do you think that being the newest player here (I think) will impede your play in any way? If so, how?
PPE:
4maskwolf:I was not threatening him, but thank you for demonstrating how little you care about your vote usage.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 11:26:28 am
TolyK: Are you happy with your role? Did it live up to your expectations?Role is good. I'd prefer a more haywire one, but I'll have to think with this one at least. :P
Yep, Wuba roles are Wuba-quality.
Also, are you a schizophrenic?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 11:27:10 am
Also, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 11:33:23 am
Flabort:1)Interesting.Toaster You get the same question Shakerag asked me. If you were offered the choice between arsonist or random role, which would you pick?
Arsonist. I've always wanted to be one, and it's a hilarious asshole role. The thought of getting a "Kill everyone" button really appeals to me.
Are any of the questions you asked advice on how to play your own role?I got permission to stay! I won't be absent at all it turns out. :D
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.
Not near as bad as I thought, though I'm only up to your post so far.
Have you been reading this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=130326.0)?
Also, yeah, camping is awesome.
2)Maybe a couple spud-tions are.
3)That's not very far. Or do you mean a different post than the one I'm thinking?
4) I remember reading the opening post of that, but no.
5)Canoe Camping is an awful experience that I wish I'd never gone through. The only time camping is any fun, is when there's about 300+ campers, and a small group of them are your friends who you rarely ever see in person. This is not that trip, that trip was a few weeks ago.
Persus I didn't pick that as my role, nor do I have a kill or post-ato restriction. Answering the question would not tell me how to play my role. I understand that you would not pick that role, though; let's say it was a bring someone else's role and you got it, then.
Swedish?! Man that's tricky.
PPE: 4mask Sleeping on rocks. Insects. Bears are a risk at the target site. Lack of internet. Wearing dirty clothes. Cousins running around playing a made-up game that's basically lacrosse but instead of a net on the stick it's a hole in the ball. WATER EVERYWHERE, I hate being on, in, or near rivers or lakes. The noises at night. Camp food, dehydrated foods. Trees (Durkon from OotS). Lack of proper climate control making sleeping harder. Not having a sturdy roof if it rains. Not having a proper lightning rod to protect you if it storms. A small wind being enough to topple your temporary home. Packing up to go, having only a small selection of your clothes available. Being separated from your pets. Having to filter your water. THE LIST GOES ON.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 11:34:12 am
You addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 11:37:15 am
Then why didn't you ask me that? :PYou addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 11:37:33 am
ahem.You addressed yourself. It was more or less a joke. :PAlso, are you a schizophrenic?Me?
As in me, or my role?
Quote from: wikipedia
Despite the origin of the term from the Greek roots skhizein ("to split") and phrēn ("mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split personality", or "multiple personality disorder"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.And no, I'm not schizophrenic. Just a horrible person.
Post by: TolyK on August 08, 2014, 11:48:05 am
Post by: Jack A T on August 08, 2014, 12:48:29 pm
Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: Sorry, I'm having trouble finding that stuff right now. Cannot answer.
Is there [size=18]anyone else[/size] who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?
Jack A T: Do you think Wuba's interpretation of your role is awesome? Good? Perfectly fine? Poor? Dismal?NQT and 4maskwolf: I shall answer these questions together.
My role is quite loosely tied to what I sent in, but generally unified by a common theme. My general flavour, which is weakly tied to the thing I sent in, tells me what my role was basically built around. One of my powers does not fit my general flavour, and is barely tied to the thing I sent in, but at least in flavour it fits the wider field my general flavour puts me in.
Basically, Wuba's interpretation of what I sent in is a bit odd, and doesn't fully fit together, but I can sort of see how he came to make it like that.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?Varee: Unless there is a good reason (paranoid gun owner fun, reaction testing...), lying is considered to be a rather strong scumtell. Even with good reasons, it rarely looks good. Claiming RL issues you don't have is in poor taste.
Cheeetar: I'll take it you don't much like my efforts to gain clarifications of an unclear miller claim, even with them done in a way that allows Tiruin to withhold sensitive information without conflict?Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.This, and other posts asking for information about Tiruin's role beyond that of being a miller- still scummy, even if you ask timidly.
4maskwolf: Alright. I tend to expect votes with reasons to be non-random, but it is early enough in the day that I can accept the vote as RVS-type stuff. Unvote.4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.
4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Post by: Toaster on August 08, 2014, 12:54:30 pm
ToasterNQT: What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?Ask me this again on Day 3. I have an answer but if I tell you now, scum might change their behaviour accordingly.
Forgot to explicitly respond to this, but fair enough.
4mask:
Toaster: What in particular appeals to you about the arsonist?
1) The surprise factor. Short of a rolecop, there's really no warning that it's coming.
2) The hilarity factor.
3) This. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63487.msg1554852#msg1554852)
Flabort: 3) I had only read up to the post you asked me that as of the time I typed the answer. All caught up now, and it still wasn't too bad.
4) Ah. Potatoes are heavily involved later.
5) It's not really camping if there are 300+ people.
Post by: webadict on August 08, 2014, 01:03:31 pm
Quote
My role is quite loosely tied to what I sent in, but generally unified by a common theme. My general flavour, which is weakly tied to the thing I sent in, tells me what my role was basically built around. One of my powers does not fit my general flavour, and is barely tied to the thing I sent in, but at least in flavour it fits the wider field my general flavour puts me in.The pains of being an artiste!
Basically, Wuba's interpretation of what I sent in is a bit odd, and doesn't fully fit together, but I can sort of see how he came to make it like that.
I'll get you guys a vote count when I get off work.
Post by: Jack A T on August 08, 2014, 01:05:27 pm
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 01:30:59 pm
Is there anyone else who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?Didn't see this question earlier. I'm a tad confused how the night ability fits, but I'm quite happy with how it works, so I have no complaints.
That's fine, I'm just pleased you remember what I was referring to.Jack A T Mario is Busing Bowser. How does Princess Peach, who is Tiruin, react? As a Toad, how do you react?flabort: Sorry, I'm having trouble finding that stuff right now. Cannot answer.
Flabort: 3) I had only read up to the post you asked me that as of the time I typed the answer. All caught up now, and it still wasn't too bad.3) OK. That's good.
4) Ah. Potatoes are heavily involved later.
5) It's not really camping if there are 300+ people.
4) Alright. How involved? Actually, I can look for myself, can't I. I'll do that after watching House for a bit.
5) Precisely. There's even a store that sells books and vegetarian food, plus Jones Soda, which is part of why I can tolerate that particular yearly trip. And a cafeteria, though no-one I know chooses to eat there. And my friends there all play MtG, so we played that almost all week, with Munchkin and Crazy Eights and Phase 10 as well. Which many of the older people at said trip would disapprove of, because ages range from 0 to 110, and they're sticks in the mud, but my friends make it all worthwhile. So yeah, that's not camping, which is why I put up with that trip. The trip I was about to be taken on is camping, and my friends would not be joining us, so I didn't want to go.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 01:36:51 pm
Is there anyone else who is unsure how their role fits in with the idea they sent?My powers and autos and stuff seem to fit perfectly with the role, but my role wasn't exactly the hardest one to work with.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 01:45:55 pm
Err, I should done my clarifications. I was staring at your note to Jack A T here, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5553774#msg5553774) using a time-honored tradition of referencing Mario.flabort: Why do you use intricate methods of analogy in questions to certain people? Is it a shift of viewpoint or is there something up with your wording there?I can't say I'm entirely sure what you mean. Could you point out where I used analogy (besides Jack, and it's more reaction test than analogy there)?
It was curiosity.
pfp
What questions, Tiruin? What was left unanswered?
OK Cheet. I usually do, but I might not as I'm pretty busy at the moment.
Interesting Toly. Do you have any questions for me?
[...]
And I do see my question on why you're asking it not yet answered, NQT
>QuoteIt is Unlucky.
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.
[...]Are you making the notice that you may have something attached to the names of things more obvious or what? That is a valid ability seen before, by the way.
:c4maskwolf: Right, this is where I bring that question back again. In the situation of being chided or seemingly being faced with abrasiveness, do you think it is better to act proactively or act reactively? As in, the former being a response which is calm and collected versus the response that lies with emotions and has more 'impact' in a sense?Heh, the question looked bigger on my ipod. Which is better? Calm and collected. Which am I likely to do? Emotional.
But sometimes it feels like you take it personally. I know I just did...because of my mood at the time which wasn't good due to RL stuff >.> (Srry NQT)
Got methods there which would help ya with your emotions? This is more player-person based.
That was my joke :PTHE PACIFIC OCEAN
Tsunami (one-shot) - blah blah
Considering Tiruin lives in an area where Pacific tsunamis are a legitimate concern, I'd say that was the inappropriate one.
But yeah, despite being near/along the PRF [Pacific Ring O' Fire], I'm in a pretty nice place away from the Tsunami.
...Last one that hit us was thankfully not that strong, thank God.
I'm on a mountain.
But thanks for the concern. It stabs my heart nicely. C:
Spoiler: As an aside (click to show/hide)
Tiruin: What do you believe is the biggest scumtell on day one? Does the biggest scumtell change as the days progress?I believe the biggest scumtell is that which carries over to the proceeding days--no game is won in a day and in D1 the information just begins to seep. I speak this in a general way because of the...err, 'interval' approach I look at scumtells at D1.
Those that curry suspicion and may as well carry over in D2, usually as conversational topics, are pretty much 'big' for me.
So yes, it changes as much as how you word your...words.
No you ain't. :IQuote from: wikipediaDespite the origin of the term from the Greek roots skhizein ("to split") and phrēn ("mind"), schizophrenia does not imply a "split personality", or "multiple personality disorder"—a condition with which it is often confused in public perception.And no, I'm not schizophrenic. Just a horrible person.
PFP here, will get back to read soon
Post by: Persus13 on August 08, 2014, 01:46:53 pm
Flabort: Why in all flavor of damnation did you avoid camping?PPE:4maskwolf:I was not threatening him, but thank you for demonstrating how little you care about your vote usage.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Do that again, and I will vote you for wasting everyone's time. That was NOT neccesary and you shouldn't have done it. You are obviously intelligent enough to trim the post into something resembling coherent, so I expect you to do so in the future. It wasn't cute. It wasn't funny. It was a waste of time and space. If you're going to make a wall of text, do it because you have something to say. Not because... Whyever you did it.You know the number of shits I give about people threatening me with votes? Zero. You heard me right. Zero. Go ahead, use your vote for no other reason than you hate my posting style. All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.
All it would serve to do is prove that you don't particularly care about your vote, that you don't see it as a valuable weapon for you. Which is not a good thing, mind you.Those weren't meant as a threat?
Use your vote in a manner that is in accordance with the needs of the town.
Also, your accusing me of not caring about how I use my vote, and your voting flabort for not liking camping?
Persus13: You have replaced in numerous times for various people in mafia games. Do you believe there is anything good about replacing in that you wouldn't get by starting in the game?You get to avoid D1, and often get to experience a fresh start while other people have scummy things they've already said, so you can focus less on defending yourself and more on scumhunting.
Jack A T
For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Anyway, I think 4maskwolf is scummy because of the way he reacted to Nerjin voting him. The right response would have been to apologize for reposting an entire giant post and drop the matter. Instead he reacted extremely defensively for no reason, swearing at Nerjin and basically telling Nerjin that if you vote me I will try and lynch you for it. 4maskwolf had no reason to repost that giant post of flabort's and it was at worst an inconvenience, so 4maskwolf's reactionary and ridiculous defensiveness is uncharacteristic and unnecessary, especially as last I checked, you were the only one voting him.
Also, thanks for getting me to clarify that, I needed to figure out why I thought something was off with that.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 01:51:28 pm
Jack A TWould be weird to say he's pretty much a lyncher due to the way he positioned and worded his curiosity regarding the claim in question. While I'd say its intriguing to know (I'm biased a bit in checking Cheetar out as a vet, too), that's one of the main reasons I unvoted him (as an extra since this'll come up later anyway though I'm too tired to connect it to othe rpertinent ideas in my thoughts right now)[...]For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on[...] lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 01:54:12 pm
Those weren't meant as a threat?It was a warning about how it would be perceived.
Also, your accusing me of not caring about how I use my vote, and your voting flabort for not liking camping?
Also, what I did was a blatantly obvious random vote because lolz and I don't care anymore. What you did is a deliberate vote for no reason other than you don't like my posting style.
Anyway, I think 4maskwolf is scummy because of the way he reacted to Nerjin voting him. The right response would have been to apologize for reposting an entire giant post and drop the matter. Instead he reacted extremely defensively for no reason, swearing at Nerjin and basically telling Nerjin that if you vote me I will try and lynch you for it. 4maskwolf had no reason to repost that giant post of flabort's and it was at worst an inconvenience, so 4maskwolf's reactionary and ridiculous defensiveness is uncharacteristic and unnecessary, especially as last I checked, you were the only one voting him.Nerjin never voted me, in case you didn't notice. What I said was "I don't care if you vote me". How is that scummy, precisely? I also did not threaten him or tell him I would lynch him: I was telling him to find better grounds for a lynch or look elsewhere, because voting someone on shaky grounds like that is extremely scummy. You have blatantly misinterpreted my post to the point where I'm not sure it's possible for it to be an accident, Persus13.
Oh, and unvote, I'll read over the thread later and see if there's anyone worthy of an actual vote, rather than an RVS vote.
Post by: Nerjin on August 08, 2014, 01:58:55 pm
Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cheetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Persus13 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Silthuri (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Well America, that’s almost everything. But one thing that caught my eye:
I'm not that invested in staying alive this game, so in the absence of other tells, I offer myself as tribute.
So aside from being incredibly rude towards other players and semi-active lurking [he has made several posts recently that contain little to nothing of value inside of them.], His voting of Flabort for no real reason, he also doesn’t care about remaining alive to help town. Perhaps it is foolish to expect someone on their way out to commit. But if you don’t care about being alive, why should we 4mask?
With that sad business out of the way I’m afraid we must part ways for now sweet America. Remember: One Soul, One Heart, One America.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 02:03:41 pm
So aside from being incredibly rude towards other players and semi-active lurking [he has made several posts recently that contain little to nothing of value inside of them.], His voting of Flabort for no real reason, he also doesn’t care about remaining alive to help town. Perhaps it is foolish to expect someone on their way out to commit. But if you don’t care about being alive, why should we 4mask?*shrugs*
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.
Post by: Jack A T on August 08, 2014, 02:14:35 pm
Also, CanLII?Tiruin: Forgot to answer this, sorry. CanLII. (https://www.canlii.org/en/) I read stuff.
For the record, I have read the entire thread, and I haven't seen anywhere where 4maskwolf said he was on an iPod. Regardless, that is irrelevant to the present discussion.Persus13: Thank you for the clear and detailed response.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Anyway, I think 4maskwolf is scummy because of the way he reacted to Nerjin voting him. The right response would have been to apologize for reposting an entire giant post and drop the matter. Instead he reacted extremely defensively for no reason, swearing at Nerjin and basically telling Nerjin that if you vote me I will try and lynch you for it. 4maskwolf had no reason to repost that giant post of flabort's and it was at worst an inconvenience, so 4maskwolf's reactionary and ridiculous defensiveness is uncharacteristic and unnecessary, especially as last I checked, you were the only one voting him.
Also, thanks for getting me to clarify that, I needed to figure out why I thought something was off with that.
On the iPod thing: 4mask mentioned using one here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554676#msg5554676). The relevance is in the possible explanation of 4mask's failure to cut the quote down... but, looking back, he did make a cut version of the quote later in the post, so it is irrelevant.
On votes for 4mask: NQT was also voting for Wolf. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554326#msg5554326)
You state that the "right response" to Nerjin's post would have been purely apologetic and would have involved dropping the issue, and that 4maskwolf was needlessly and ridiculously defensive/aggressive. I have a couple questions:
*Does the fact that Nerjin explicitly threatened to vote to lynch 4maskwolf for poor etiquette alone have any impact on the "right response" to Nerjin's complaints?
*Aside from your view of 4maskwolf's response as excessively defensive, what do you think of 4mask's argument that voting him for etiquette reasons is a bad idea and worthy of a vote?
Nerjin: Can you explain how flabort's question to Cheeetar about PFP players is irrelevant enough to the game, compared to the average RVS question, that you felt it was necessary to take a shot at him for?
As a side note, I fully understood flabort's question to me (it's based on an odd private conversation the two of us had a while back in which we ended up coming up with roles for Mario characters). With that information added, do you still see it as irrelevant?
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.4maskwolf: What are you even doing?
Post by: Shakerag on August 08, 2014, 02:27:52 pm
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: Does your role name start with "The BYOR 13 Role that" again?I am nothing if not a creature of habits.
I haven't really played with you all that much. What is your favorite part of Wuba's BYORs.Seeing what he comes up with when I submit another "The BYOR ## Role That ..."
That, and crazy power-related bullshit.
flabort:
Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?Are you seriously asking me to come up with 16 roles for your amusement?
Why would you want me to spend my time on something like that rather than paying attention to the game and finding scum?
Also, PFP can mean "posting from profession" which is pretty much what I use PFP for.
Cheeetar:
See the last line of flabort's response.
Also, I'd be behind a miller lynch if there really wasn't anything scummier to go on. Having said that, I think the odds of a miller claim being the scummiest thing on D1 are pretty low though. For the record, I think a miller claim post-inspection is more scummy than an early miller claim, for whatever that's worth.
Imp:
Shakerag:So you're saying that you'd benefit from being a target? That's interesting to know. No, I don't think your pre-game banter is useful, although your responses to it now may be.Imp: Do you think your pre-game banter will make you more of a target now?
It might, which could be useful. Do you view my pre-game banter as useful or meaningful to you?
Shakerag:Note that I didn't say 'read it', because I can't.
If you want to read it, copy/paste it into notepad or something, or just quote the post. Since you probably knew of at least both of those options, why'd you claim you couldn't read Tiruin's tinywrite?
Also, I'm not going to be arsed to take extra steps to read someone's post. If I need to magnify, decode, or copy/paste what you're writing then it isn't worth reading. And I'll think less of you as a person for doing so.
IronyOwl:
To be honest I'm not familiar enough with either of them anymore. Well, I think I'm still reasonably familiar with Tiruin, but her posts tend to make my head hurt. :PYou wound me, IO. But I do agree with you in regards to Tiruin.
Jack A T:
Shakerag: Has your role screwed everyone over yet? If not, when will it?You, too, wound me, Jack. While I would find it hilarious if my role could screw everyone over, I doubt webadict would allow things to be that unbalanced. As for the rest, you can take your role-fishing attempts elsewhere.
Persus13: Are you willing to lynch a person for posting in an annoying manner as the only reason?
If I missed a question, yell.
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 02:33:30 pm
Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!So aside from being incredibly rude towards other players and semi-active lurking [he has made several posts recently that contain little to nothing of value inside of them.], His voting of Flabort for no real reason, he also doesn’t care about remaining alive to help town. Perhaps it is foolish to expect someone on their way out to commit. But if you don’t care about being alive, why should we 4mask?*shrugs*
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.
1) Because I was prepared to BE a PFP Player, and I wanted to know if he was they type to lynch someone over it. I mercifully don't have to go now, so I won't be, but I wanted to know..Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
2) Seeding spuds.
3) Well, that's one way that question could be interpreted. Jack understood the other.
4) Fair enough. It seems nobody is ever able to predict the actions of others.
5) The questions you may feel are less than applicable have their own way of being applicable. Many of the questions I ask may seem this way, that they do not apply or may not be timed right. The reason for this is that I'm still learning to ask the right questions and I feel that the questions have to be creative; I don't feel like asking the same questions every game is productive.
flabort:Actually, I'm asking you to think of what you know about each player, and come up with an answer based on that. Though I added the roles part for my amusement, yes, the question is less about the roles and more about the players.Shakerag What "shakeragian" role would you recommend for each player, based on what you know of those players?Are you seriously asking me to come up with 16 roles for your amusement?
Why would you want me to spend my time on something like that rather than paying attention to the game and finding scum?
Also, PFP can mean "posting from profession" which is pretty much what I use PFP for.
Post by: Toaster on August 08, 2014, 02:48:14 pm
I'm probably paranoid, but you should probably refrain from saying any variant of the P-word around Flabort.
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 02:54:17 pm
I just thought that since I was going to be absent, I should check if my low activity levels would get me lynched.
Since I'm not going to be anymore, I'm perfectly fine with that word.
Post by: Persus13 on August 08, 2014, 03:02:11 pm
Persus13: Thank you for the clear and detailed response.Thanks for providing the other vote. Votes have been flying thick and fast, so it's hard to keep track of who is voting who.
On votes for 4mask: NQT was also voting for Wolf. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554326#msg5554326)
You state that the "right response" to Nerjin's post would have been purely apologetic and would have involved dropping the issue, and that 4maskwolf was needlessly and ridiculously defensive/aggressive. I have a couple questions:
*Does the fact that Nerjin explicitly threatened to vote to lynch 4maskwolf for poor etiquette alone have any impact on the "right response" to Nerjin's complaints?
*Aside from your view of 4maskwolf's response as excessively defensive, what do you think of 4mask's argument that voting him for etiquette reasons is a bad idea and worthy of a vote?
I was mentally comparing Nerjin's response to 4maskwolf to Wuba stepping in on the cryptography issue. When Wuba had made it clear that he did not want cryptography I dropped the issue as it was serving no purpose and could reduce the fun. While Nerjin was overly offensive on 4maskwolf, I equated it to Wuba modkilling someone who did cryptography. Anyway, if I was 4maskwolf, I would have apologized, questioned Nerjin about why he thought voting someone over something useless was a good idea, and then depending on Nerjin's answer, either dropped the issue or voted him, making it about Nerjin instead of about myself. Instead, 4maskwolf made it about himself. I could understand 4maskwolf questioning Nerjin about how scummy voting someone over an inconvenience would be. I could understand 4maskwolf even voting Nerjin over that bit. But instead of taking the opportunity to scumhunt Nerjin or apologize, 4maskwolf instead made it about himself by being hostile to Nerjin and threatening him, telling him to use his vote to help town, when Nerjin hadn't voted him at all yet.
Could Nerjin's hostility impacted 4maskwolf's decision, yes, but it doesn't justify his manner of response.
Is voting 4maskwolf for etiquette reasons bad? It depends, but it's the start of D1, and Nerjin only threatened to vote him, he didn't actually vote him, so I'd consider it to only be a little over the top.
Persus13: Are you willing to lynch a person for posting in an annoying manner as the only reason?No. Lynching someone for being annoying, excessively defensive indicating that they could be hiding something, and not scumhunting? Well, it's still early D1, so I'd like to gather more evidence first, although it does seem from his other posts that 4maskwolf is just being uncharacteristically grouchy and unhelpful.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 08, 2014, 03:09:09 pm
Me? I'm telling the truth. You all don't know what my alignment is, be it town or scum or whatever: true. As such, there is no particular incentive to keep me alive over anyone else. This goes for everyone: currently, there is no particular reason to keep any given person alive because only they (and their scum buddies, should they have them) know who they are.You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.4maskwolf: What are you even doing?
Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!Lolz you actually think I'm a jester?
Post by: Imp on August 08, 2014, 03:23:51 pm
ImpMmm...fascinated =/= overfocused?Imp: Welcome back! What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?
I'm no longer fascinated by Mafia. Still interested, but not all gung ho.
So lots of related similar game experiences but no longer overfocused on the game.
I'm a bit confused by the terms but I associate fascinated = interested//something good. :x
What do you mean by fascinated? Did it become...bad?
I often respond to 'new things' by giving them a lot of attention, probably more than most people would, and that can go on for a long time. I'm simply out of that stage now. Means I probably won't be putting 5+ hours a day into thinking, reading, and writing for the game, like I did for my first few games. Overfascination can fuel that level of reaction
I don't consider how I react to new things to be 'bad'; but its definitely 'different' and 'temporary', and I'm out of that stage for Mafia.
Varee:
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
I believe that all you do should further your goals, whatever those goals are. How you asked that question effectively states that the goal is to 'not answer questions'. That doesn't sound like a Town goal to me, nor an involved player's choices.
After all, what are you going to do, keep your internet broken the rest of the game? Because when you return, you.... will be expected to answer the questions you feel motivated to avoid. Or do you think to bury your head under the broken internet until you are slain? Probably better to replace in that case.
As to what is lying too much; I don't know. I saw some Town use a lot of lying in the Paranormal I played to totally rock the game (to be fair, there were also freely-allowed PMs that game, which I had missed the rules about; and that also changed gameplay hugely). It was awesome and shocking to me. I currently don't have a definition for what 'lying too much' may be, -if- it serves your goals and allows you to achieve those goals. However lies that fail to achieve your goals are clearly a complete waste of time.
Questions for you, Varee:
What would three questions be that you would feel tempted to claim 'my internet broke down' rather than answer?
What do you think of my answer to your question about lies?
How useful do you believe conversation is, compared to use of abilities? Do you use the conversation much in your play?
4maskwolf:
Imp: What do you believe is the best survivor strategy?Flexibility and responsiveness.
Shakerag:
So you're saying that you'd benefit from being a target? That's interesting to know. No, I don't think your pre-game banter is useful, although your responses to it now may be.
Peoples' responses and interactions are useful. Targeting someone for their pre-game banter is an unusual choice, and that could be useful.
Post by: Shakerag on August 08, 2014, 03:31:18 pm
Actually, I'm asking you to think of what you know about each player, and come up with an answer based on that. Though I added the roles part for my amusement, yes, the question is less about the roles and more about the players.... ... ... okay, fine, whatever.
4maskwolf - Looks like a quitter
Cheeetar - Seems like he hasn't played in a while.
flabort - Has an obsession with potatoes. And is annoying me.
Hapah - Is apparently TolyK now. Which is a name I recognize and not much else.
Imp - Is wordy.
IronyOwl - A good veteran player.
Jack A T - A veteran player of some quality.
Jiokuy - I have no idea who this is.
Nerjin - Really likes revolvers.
notquitethere - Analytical, but loses a lot.
Persus13 - *shrug*
Scripten - I have no idea who this is.
Shakerag - A cantankerous asshole.
Silthuri - I have no idea who this is.
Tiruin - Makes wordy and difficult to read posts.
Toaster - A good veteran player.
Varee - I have no idea who this is.
I will make a note that I am possibly the worst person you could have asked a "what do you know about each player" question to.
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 03:47:09 pm
It seems like you're trying to get yourself lynched. Which is a huge jester tell, because that's what jesters DO.Ow-tato! Stop that. Stop poking your Jester's stick into my trillions of eyes!Lolz you actually think I'm a jester?
And I have trouble believing you genuinely don't care about the game. If you genuinely didn't care, you'd just stop posting; leaving the games absent, vanishing from them. You wouldn't be responding to my accusation.
I will make a note that I am possibly the worst person you could have asked a "what do you know about each player" question to.What? You want me to ask someone who's GOOD at answering the question? It's not a "hard question" if it's asked to someone who can answer it easily. Asking the people who have trouble answering yields more data per weight than asking someone who has a pre-fabricated answer.
I'm quite satisfied with your answer.
Post by: Tiruin on August 08, 2014, 03:49:29 pm
So why aren't you asking me anything @__@I will make a note that I am possibly the worst person you could have asked a "what do you know about each player" question to.What? You want me to ask someone who's GOOD at answering the question? It's not a "hard question" if it's asked to someone who can answer it easily. Asking the people who have trouble answering yields more data per weight than asking someone who has a pre-fabricated answer.
I'm quite satisfied with your answer.
PFP
Post by: flabort on August 08, 2014, 03:53:45 pm
So why aren't you asking me anything @__@But I did, and you answered.
PFP
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How does a well-played day 1 RVS affect the game? How does a poorly played RVS affect the game?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 05:37:42 pm
TolyK: Did you replace Jiokuy? Have I been voting for somebody who is actually no longer playing the game?
Cheetar:
If you were a town miller, what would you do?
I now realise the best thing to do would be to claim immediately.
Cheeetar: Why do you believe that preemptive measures are a scumtell?
Scum have more important lives than townies, in terms of how much their death would affect the game. They should be more self interested than townies.
Cheeetar: I'll take it you don't much like my efforts to gain clarifications of an unclear miller claim, even with them done in a way that allows Tiruin to withhold sensitive information without conflict?Is your miller power one of those dependent on the number of players? What did Webadict say about you being a miller? Please tell us everything you're comfortable telling us about your milleriness.This, and other posts asking for information about Tiruin's role beyond that of being a miller- still scummy, even if you ask timidly.
Yes, I don't. Regardless of how comfortable sharing they are, you should never ask for somebody to volunteer information about their role at such an early time. It's just role fishing, that's all it is.
4maskwolf: Alright. I tend to expect votes with reasons to be non-random, but it is early enough in the day that I can accept the vote as RVS-type stuff. Unvote.4maskwolf: Out of all of Cheeetar's lynch push, this is what you latch on to? The bit where he shows cluelessness about how the game works? Please explain how this specific part of Cheeetar's argument indicates scumhood.It's called a random vote. I was prying for more specifics on why Cheeetar believed that claiming miller after an investigation was a null tell but claiming before was a scumtell. I believe the exact opposite: claiming miller day one is a good idea in games. I see it as a null tell: I'll still lynch them if they act suspicious, but I won't put their lynch before anyone else's.4maskwolf, quoting a small wall of text for no reason is bad forum etiquette, especially as you can't go back and edit it. This game already has and will have plenty of extremely long posts. Adding to it does not help. It is unhelpful to the game in general. Responding to someone's comment about it being unhelpful by being even more unhelpful and threatening doesn't help either.Persus13: Alright, I understand that you haven't read a significant part of the thread, and thus are unaware of the votes already on 4maskwolf and of his use of an iPod to play. However, this is still an astoundingly lazy vote. You're largely repeating Nerjin's complaint about 4mask not cutting his quotes enough, and your addition (that his response to Nerjin's threats was unhelpful) does little to make voting for 4mask a good idea.
Please explain, in detail, how 4maskwolf's poor etiquette in posting a longer post than necessary and how 4mask's response to Nerjin threatening to vote him for poor etiquette indicate scumhood.
This, Jack A T, is strange. In one unvote you forgive a RVS-type vote, and then immediately you're voting for Persus13 for what seems to be a RVS-type vote.
Here's my explanation. Currently 4maskwolf is the scummiest player for his response to Nerjin. The only other player I find scummy currently, is Cheeetar, because up until he voted Jiokuy, I was convinced he was a Lyncher due to his focus on lynching Tiruin and pushing for that lynch instead of doing any scumhunting. Now he's started scumhunting, so my suspicions of him are somewhat lessened.
Persus, my vote on Jiokuy isn't exactly scumhunting- I just wanted him to start posting. This is a pretty lazy way to decide who you suspect or don't. I think my suspicion of Tiruin has been much more constructive and helpful to the town than my poking of Jiokuy.
Post by: Persus13 on August 08, 2014, 05:51:57 pm
TolyK replaced in for Hapah, not Jiokuy. Also, Jiokuy stated in CYOR that he was having internet issues and that they wouldn't get resolved until today (I think).
Post by: Cheeetar on August 08, 2014, 06:02:15 pm
Post by: Jack A T on August 08, 2014, 06:30:16 pm
Jack A T:Shakerag: Alright. Not sure what "the rest" is in this case, as you answered both of my questions fully before the last comment.Shakerag: Has your role screwed everyone over yet? If not, when will it?You, too, wound me, Jack. While I would find it hilarious if my role could screw everyone over, I doubt webadict would allow things to be that unbalanced. As for the rest, you can take your role-fishing attempts elsewhere.
Persus13: Are you willing to lynch a person for posting in an annoying manner as the only reason?Are you willing to read the bit where Persus13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555338#msg5555338) gives more reasons for his vote, including significant elements beyond 4mask posting in an annoying manner?
Persus13: In response to this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555559#msg5555559), I hereby unvote. I get the impression of honesty in your explanations of your vote. I'm not sure comparing an intervention by Nerjin (a participant in the game with possible ulterior motives) to an intervention by Webadict (the moderator, who is hopefully not hostile) is the best idea, though.
Imp: I find your response to Varee's question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555619#msg5555619) interesting, largely for the pragmatism and the lack of comments about etiquette. Do you believe there to be any situations in which you would feel comfortable lying about your real life circumstances for an advantage?
Yes, I don't. Regardless of how comfortable sharing they are, you should never ask for somebody to volunteer information about their role at such an early time. It's just role fishing, that's all it is.Cheeetar: "Never" is quite a strong word in Mafia. Do avoid allowing believed absolutes to block notice of situational issues.
This [the unvoting of 4maskwolf and voting of Persus13], Jack A T, is strange. In one unvote you forgive a RVS-type vote, and then immediately you're voting for Persus13 for what seems to be a RVS-type vote.I do not agree with your analysis. We appear to have very different views of what an RVS-type vote is. I view votes with actual reasons to be, unless otherwise indicated, non-RVS votes: they're not random. 4maskwolf's vote had a reason (making it seem to not be an RVS vote), but he indicated it was an RVSish vote and I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Persus13's vote has a reason (making it seem to not be an RVS vote), and he is seriously making a case. He is also not saying it was an RVS vote.
Please explain how Persus13's vote appears to be an RVS vote.
I shall do a reevaluation of the game and post reads later.
Post by: webadict on August 08, 2014, 07:11:35 pm
Also, bold and red, please!
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - notquitethere, Persus13, Nerjin,
Cheeetar - flabort,
flabort -
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Jiokuy - Cheeetar,
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 - Shakerag,
Scripten -
Shakerag -
Silthuri - IronyOwl,
Tiruin - Scripten,
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Jiokuy, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: Varee on August 08, 2014, 07:22:43 pm
Quote
Varee: Do you think that being the newest player here (I think) will impede your play in any way? If so, how?
I don't feel like being new here is the biggest problem for me currently. It is more of the go to bed and woke up to 4-5 new pages of stuff in the morning. Just the sheer amount of people in this game is giving me head ache. I have a feeling i wont be able to read every single post.
IMP
Quote
What would three questions be that you would feel tempted to claim 'my internet broke down' rather than answer?
What do you think of my answer to your question about lies?
How useful do you believe conversation is, compared to use of abilities? Do you use the conversation much in your play?
1 well i dont really want to go as far as lying about thing IRL as i feel like that is going a bit too far. That also seem to be what majority of people here think too.
2 Your answer is different from other people opinion. It is a question for opinion after all so it is personal i guess? Also it give me the feeling that you are like one of those guy that are willing to do anything to win.
3I personally not a conversation heavy guy. It might be the style i play before which is pretty much speed mafia. Also my limited interaction of posting like one or twice a day also impose a limit on my ability to use conversation effectively.
Also this role web adict give out will be kind of fun:D
Post by: Silthuri on August 08, 2014, 09:56:53 pm
It kinda reminded me of a little horror game called Ib. With paintings, little girls, dolls... In short, it was creepy and if that's not you being creepy...*4maskwolf does a pitiful puppy face*Oh no, I can be far more creepy if I'm actually trying to be creepy.That's terrifying.
Silthuri: What do you feel is the most annoying type of third party, should it exist?Hmm... I'd just say the average SK that kills random people and creates chaos because it's not just scum killing.
Everyone: Have I ever "given up" in a mafia game you have seen me play, barring the over dramatized giving up post I made in Jack's BYOR when I was fakeclaiming martyr and my first two games (my first BM and Wuba's last game)?Not that I've seen.
Silthuri: You've been around about as long as I have, right? What is your favorite game of mafia you have played in so far?I think our first game was Tiruin's Court of Colors BM, yes? We kinda got here at about the same time.
It's hard to pick a favorite... perhaps MMM, which I lost due to replacing in for someone who hadn't posted the entire game, but it was fun because I successfully pulled off a win in my tent with one single well-placed scum kill and turning the remaining two on each other.
Flabort:
Silthuri if you had the ability to intercept any actions targeting someone, and have them affect you, based off initial impressions who would you intercept for?I'd probably just not intercept for anyone. I'm unsure about everyone at this point.
NQT:
SilthuriNope. I was saying that while I have the least experience with third parties, I still like playing as one. And I've been third party twice. Forgot GBU...Nope. I like playing as all alignments. I've only been third party once where I replaced in to die, and even that was kinda fun.Are you implying that you're a third-party?
IronyOwl:
Silthuri, when would you bus an ally as scum? Would that answer change as the game progressed?I'd bus them if they were a lost cause in order to make myself look more town but only as a last resort. This answer probably wouldn't change as the game goes on.
Silthuri I would better know as... MOWE? I know I should remember more of her than I do, so into the unknown bin she goes.I'm naturally inconspicuous. I'm always in the unknown bin...
Cheeetar:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?If we have no other direction to go in, it would be an alright choice in case they're throwing out miller as an excuse to come up scum to inspects. As 4mask said though, that's kinda cruel to the miller if they are indeed just a miller. Besides. This is Tiruin's first miller experience apparently. I'm willing to believe she's actually a miller. For now.
Nerjin: So you're the President from Fallout 3? Are you roleplaying it excessively so I can't catch you in a lie?
Just skimmed through the pages of posts for the questions addressed to me. I'll go back through everything again on Sunday. Apologies if I missed anything.
Post by: Tiruin on August 09, 2014, 12:11:49 am
Nerjin: So you're the President from Fallout 3? Are you roleplaying it excessively so I can't catch you in a lie?O__o
Where'd you get Fallout 3 all of a sudden? xD
To be honest, in the answer of my question he does pretty much cut roleplaying straight, in that I get that he designs to include it with his mafia-related-posts.
...He sounded more like John F. Kennedy to me...
Post by: Nerjin on August 09, 2014, 12:54:45 am
Nerjin: So you're the President from Fallout 3? Are you roleplaying it excessively so I can't catch you in a lie?
I'm afraid, in the interest of National Security, I am unable to divulge that information. When my term is up, however, I will lay bare all that I can. I assure you however that I am playing no role: For nefarious or no. Instead I am focusing on that which is important: Finding the moral degenerates who dare attack our sweet America.
That's all for now America and remember: America the Brave. America the Beautiful. America the Eternal.
Post by: TolyK on August 09, 2014, 02:27:15 am
I'm really not sure whether 4mask is genuinely sick of Mafia at this point, or just a jester. I'm having trouble seeing his behaviour as helpful to the town though.4mask seems to be playing games. Probably ones related to scum hunting, but that's less sure.
TolyK: Did you replace Jiokuy? Have I been voting for somebody who is actually no longer playing the game?
No, I'm replacing for Hapah, Jiokay was busy as far as I remember.
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
Who are your cabinet members?
Post by: Imp on August 09, 2014, 07:22:19 am
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
What are you seeing in Nerjin's responses that leads you to be pretty sure he is third party?
Jack A T:
Imp: I find your response to Varee's question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555619#msg5555619) interesting, largely for the pragmatism and the lack of comments about etiquette. Do you believe there to be any situations in which you would feel comfortable lying about your real life circumstances for an advantage?
Only thing that comes to mind is outside the bounds of probability and certainly isn't happening now: someone threatening me with IRL consequence unless I lied about it. I'm not interested in making such lies for an in game advantage, and I don't see possible in game advantage to be gained from doing so either.
Varee's reply 193 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554231#msg5554231) left me with some concerns about his intentions and strategies as a player.
There's a difference between lacking etiquette oneself and discussing an etiquette-sensitive concept without mentioning etiquette at all. If a player does not already view it as wrong to use lies about real life circumstances, how convincing is a discussion about the etiquette they lack likely to be upon shaping their behavior? Other approaches exist; I used one.
Scripten: You've got some unanswered questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5553157#msg5553157) still, but I've got more for you again.
Banter. I thought you were trying to (heh) role play something creepy.4maskwolf: You're playing a creepy role, aren't you? Betcha mine is creepier.nope. You're wrong about my role.
Your's would be, naturally. It's hard to get any less creepy than my role.
Scripten: Why the role question right off of the bat?
At the time you posted your question to 4maskwolf, wolf had made only two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552275#msg5552275) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552285#msg5552285). What did you see in those two short posts that you interpreted as creepy roleplay? What role did you see him roleplaying as, and why did you offer a bet that yours was creepier?
Okay, at this juncture, I really should clarify that my vote was still RVS. I just prefer my RVS votes to have SOME sort of game-related justification. Though, I appreciate the more in-depth examination of theory.You state your vote was RVS, and that you want your RVS votes to have a game-related justification, and that you appreciate the examination of theory.
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.
Do you believe that stating that your vote is RVS weakens or strengthens it?
You haven't exactly been pressuring or questioning except with your vote and you haven't been posting very much; are you satisfied with the effects you perceive that your play has so far?
Silthuri: You mentioned you are bad with RVS questions, and that you're so far just skimming through posts to catch questions addressed to you, though you did mention you'd reread Sunday.
How will you know when we leave the RVS stage, what marks that change to you?
Post by: TolyK on August 09, 2014, 02:17:14 pm
Tolyk:Gut feeling. Don't tell me gut feeling isn't which to be pretty sure about something, but knowing Wuba rules and roles, along with how Nerjin is responding to questions about his restriction, those seem most logical assumptions to me.Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
What are you seeing in Nerjin's responses that leads you to be pretty sure he is third party?
Post by: Imp on August 09, 2014, 02:37:26 pm
My powers are based on the # of people alive!
Why did you tell us this?
Post by: Imp on August 09, 2014, 02:51:56 pm
Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?
But PFP has been used in other games you've played in, while you were still alive. Here's one example, taken from the last BYOR, and it was used while you were still alive.
PFP - Bad net.
PFP was used a good, 6 times or so in that BYOR. You serious that you just saw it now for the first time?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 09, 2014, 06:59:12 pm
Hey Cheeetar, this just caught my eye.Also I haven't heard or seen the acronym PFP before, and it doesn't come up on google as anything interesting. It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?
But PFP has been used in other games you've played in, while you were still alive. Here's one example, taken from the last BYOR, and it was used while you were still alive.PFP - Bad net.
PFP was used a good, 6 times or so in that BYOR. You serious that you just saw it now for the first time?
It's entirely possible I'd seen it before and forgotten. I didn't recall it, anyway.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 09, 2014, 09:06:35 pm
4maskwolf: Do you think the most likely outcome of Day 1 is your lynch, given that you seem fairly resigned and 3 votes are on you? (3 of the 9 necessary is not that much, mind.)
If so: Do you have anything to say that will aid town upon your flip? Any suspicions we can reliably trust if you flip town or uninvolved third party?
If not: Who do you think is acting scummy- would you like to put your vote and scumhunting abilities to use?
Post by: Nerjin on August 09, 2014, 11:59:05 pm
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.
Who are your cabinet members?
Hello concerned citizen, you have raised the question whether or not I am third party. From what I hear you believe I am third party due to some gut feeling you have. I ask you: How sure are you? Are you willing to risk it? You use Occam's Razor as a baseline for your assumption. As far as I can tell, your reasoning looks something like this:
Our President is posting oddly
Third parties...
Therefore, President Nerjin is third party.
A wise American train of thought is not I'm afraid. Allow me to propose an alternate theory.
Our president is posting in a manner that he deems interesting and relevant to his role.
Our Concerned Citizen does not know Nerjin's role.
Therefore, Our Concerned Citizen is wary of Our President.
I cannot blame you for your wariness. I too am weary. Weary of an America focused on the non-issues. How I am posting matter not. What I post is filled, absolutely filled, with my scumhunting abilities at the forefront. What does this mean for America? It means she has a powerful ally by her side. Now, as I have stated, there are some things I cannot discuss. But one thing I can tell you is my cabinet composition.
It is you sweet America. America will guide me. Together, with America, I, and by extension you, will find the moral degenerates who attacked our proud nation. We will deal with them. Then, we shall enjoy an era of peace, unprecedented in this savage world.
That's all for now dear TolyK. That's all for now.
Post by: Varee on August 10, 2014, 01:40:50 am
I dont mind peopl talking in roles though, it is kind of entertaining to read.
Post by: TolyK on August 10, 2014, 04:02:37 am
Post by: Scripten on August 10, 2014, 09:45:55 am
Scripten: You've got some unanswered questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5553157#msg5553157) still, but I've got more for you again.
-snip-
At the time you posted your question to 4maskwolf, wolf had made only two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552275#msg5552275) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552285#msg5552285). What did you see in those two short posts that you interpreted as creepy roleplay? What role did you see him roleplaying as, and why did you offer a bet that yours was creepier?Okay, at this juncture, I really should clarify that my vote was still RVS. I just prefer my RVS votes to have SOME sort of game-related justification. Though, I appreciate the more in-depth examination of theory.You state your vote was RVS, and that you want your RVS votes to have a game-related justification, and that you appreciate the examination of theory.
Also, all this role playing is quite fun. I hadn't been in a BYOR until now, so it's a nice change.
Do you believe that stating that your vote is RVS weakens or strengthens it?
You haven't exactly been pressuring or questioning except with your vote and you haven't been posting very much; are you satisfied with the effects you perceive that your play has so far?
Apologies for being out for so long. I've been very busy these past two days, so I'm going to have to try and catch up now that this game has slowed down a bit. Firstly, regarding 4maskwolf's posts, this is what jumped to mind immediately:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's pretty creepy. The basis for my role is something that exists in real life and is, moreover, just a bit creepier.
As I said above, I've been very busy and it will take me a little time to catch up with the massive number of posts that popped up the past few days. I've been keeping up and skimming them, but they definitely need a more in-depth look. I do believe that stating that my vote is RVS weakens it, but I do not believe that a weak RVS vote has any effect upon later votes in the same game. I would like, and plan to interact more as the game progresses, as my current interaction has been less impressive than I'd like.
Scripten: I'm tempted to step on you, just in case. Do you intend to use much coded/hidden message stuff in your posts? What value do you see in placing hidden messages in your words?Also, all this role playing is quite fun.[/abbr]
Since you say you like the RP going on, do you intend instead to join it more directly, or is it something you'd rather observe?
I don't use a lot of hidden message stuff in my posts. I don't think I've done it more than the one time you're quoting. I like the idea of keeping my game-related content in the open, so if I do add hidden messages, they would not be particularly important to the game itself. As far as RP goes, I do enjoy watching it, but I don't really have any way of participating myself save in response to other people. My role's not a particularly talkative sort. I suppose I could buzz meaningfully if you guys really want me to RP. :P
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 12:32:23 pm
I already answered that:[...]
And I do see my question on why you're asking it not yet answered, NQT
>QuoteIt is Unlucky.
Why do you care so much about it? Got an ability or tag to inspect it? Go bloody ahead.
[...]Are you making the notice that you may have something attached to the names of things more obvious or what? That is a valid ability seen before, by the way.
I haven't got any power related to ability names or anything like that.Got an ability or tag to inspect it?No
Toaster
William Shatner?Not. even. close.
Wolf
notquitethere: How is your spreadsheet going?As I said to Imp, I don't bother with that usually until seeing if I survive until Day 2. Are you making any kinds of notes?
Scripten, did you deliberately pick a creepy role hoping to get creepy powers?
Post by: flabort on August 10, 2014, 12:38:18 pm
I mean, sure, ocean life can be creepy, spiders can be creepy, but potatoes are among the most creepy things on the internet.
Post by: Scripten on August 10, 2014, 12:52:06 pm
Scripten, did you deliberately pick a creepy role hoping to get creepy powers?
Not exactly. I picked an interesting role to get interesting powers. That it was also creepy was incidental. And fun.
Post by: Tiruin on August 10, 2014, 01:01:14 pm
Both stuff concluded in a really :C several days.
Tiruin:...I didn't think it would hurt me telling it (since I'm being asked about ability names anyway)...My mind went on a silly tangent.My powers are based on the # of people alive!
Why did you tell us this?
But yeah. Didn't think about why I shouldn't (since I've no power over it :I).
Also, Nerjin is a third party, pretty sure. Otherwise he just has a post restriction that doesn't allow him to say that he has a post restriction.You say this like its a 'pretty sure' "fact". Something ping your radar there?
Who are your cabinet members?
What exacts made you think that?
Firstly, regarding 4maskwolf's posts, this is what jumped to mind immediately:Oh you too?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*high five*
Spud if his role is based on something in real life, it's barely creepy at all!Oh come on. Calories? Starch?
I mean, sure, ocean life can be creepy, spiders can be creepy, but potatoes are among the most creepy things on the internet.
They're basically plant matter.
That equals a ton of energy.
Post by: flabort on August 10, 2014, 01:03:59 pm
These specific potatoes are among the creepiest things on the internet.
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 01:04:44 pm
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 01:11:59 pm
Imp, is this going to be one of those games where you post right at the end of each day?
TolyK, shooting from the hip, who's scum?
Toaster, theory time now: does it matter for the town's chances of success who gets voted on Day 1?
Varee, who is the most suspicious player in the game right now?
Post by: Tiruin on August 10, 2014, 01:17:26 pm
Tiruin, you can say "I don't want to answer this" and that would be fine, but I'm curious to know: do you get more powerful with fewer players alive, or less powerful?. . .
. . .
Err. That depends on how you see the usage of a power. :v Like I said, Amorphous.
I'm no omnicellular mass though :P
Post by: webadict on August 10, 2014, 01:43:45 pm
Wuba, could we get a prod on Jiokuy?I suppose, but he might live far away from me, and I don't know where he lives.
But, I can certainly send him a prod over PM.
Post by: Jack A T on August 10, 2014, 01:53:51 pm
Nerjin: Can you explain how flabort's question to Cheeetar about PFP players is irrelevant enough to the game, compared to the average RVS question, that you felt it was necessary to take a shot at him for?Also, what do you think 4mask is?
As a side note, I fully understood flabort's question to me (it's based on an odd private conversation the two of us had a while back in which we ended up coming up with roles for Mario characters). With that information added, do you still see it as irrelevant?
Cheeetar: I do wonder why you are not paying much attention to the posts of the person you say you suspect of being scum. Answer this:
Please explain how Persus13's vote appears to be an RVS vote.Imp: Alright. You designed your answer to Varee to best influence him based on impressions you got from his post. Do you continue to get these impressions from Varee?
flabort: You indicated that you think 4maskwolf is a jester. What do you believe is the best way to deal with jesters? In addition, you are voting for Cheeetar. Your last interaction with him was a while back (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552992#msg5552992). Do you believe Cheeetar is scum? If so, why aren't you trying to strengthen your case? If you don't think he's scum, why are you voting for him?
notquitethere: A while back, you asked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554123#msg5554123) if there was anyone other than Tiruin who was unsure of how their role fit with their submission. What effect has the set of answers you've received had on your view of this game?
Tiruin: What, aside from miller stuff, do you find to have been the most notable event/topic of discussion/whatever in game today? Why?
Reads
Ah, early game stuff. As expected, a null-heavy read set.
*4maskwolf: Clearly tired of Mafia, and has been for the past few games, but is still playing. Playing very half-heartedly, even compared to his normal Day 1 avoidance of usefulness. However, his contributions are not worthless. Null read.
*Cheeetar: Carried out a daring, attention-grabbing move in trying to get Tiruin lynched for claiming miller. A terrible move, but a daring, attention-grabbing one. The risk for scum inherent in this is mitigated in part by the necessary lack of awareness of standard Bay 12 miller procedures and the possibility that, based on the self-preservation part of early miller claims, he may have believed a Tiruin lynch to be easier than it is. Still, mild town read.
*flabort: Is posting a lot, but aside from dumping a bunch of RVS questions on us in his first post and contributing a bit to the miller debate, he's not doing all that much, which seems unusual for him. Mostly quickly answering questions, talking about camping, and saying things about potatoes. Has his vote on Cheeetar for Cheeetar's miller beliefs, but has stopped actively gathering more information on Cheeetar and pushing his case. Mild scum read.
*Imp: Still approaching the game as if it is in RVS. Is contributing, though. Null read.
*IronyOwl: Not quite here yet. Null read.
*Jiokuy: Who? Null read.
*Nerjin: Is not my head of state. Buried underneath his AMERICAN PATRIOTIC FERVOR is some content (best seen here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555371#msg5555371)). Did snap at 4maskwolf for his needlessly long post, and threaten to vote to lynch 4mask, but did so out of character. I get the feeling that that move was out of rage. Neutral read.
*notquitethere: Thoroughly interrogated Tiruin on her miller claim. Very thoroughly. Seems to be in-character for him. Still start-of-game NQT, before he starts doing his main work. Null read.
*Persus13: Sort of blandly active, but definitely active. His 4maskwolf accusation seems to have been made honestly. Mild town read.
*Scripten: Busy catching up. Null read.
*Silthuri: Low activity in RVS, as is normal for her. Has promised to go through everything today. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5556784#msg5556784) Null read.
*Tiruin: Claimed miller. Got tangled up in a miller debate. Has been busy dealing with life as well. Miller claim seems real. Mild town read.
*Toaster: Due to eye problems, is having trouble reading the thread, and will be having trouble for a while. Null read.
*TolyK: Isn't doing much, but that's not all that unusual for him. Thinks Nerjin is a third party. I do think more detail on that belief will be valuable. Null read.
*Varee: Not a day player. Should try to do more day stuff, though. Null read.
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 02:08:19 pm
notquitethere: A while back, you asked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554123#msg5554123) if there was anyone other than Tiruin who was unsure of how their role fit with their submission. What effect has the set of answers you've received had on your view of this game?It made me see that Tiruin wasn't the only one to have a role that had been interpreted in a way that wasn't immediately clear to them. Part of why I eased off on that line of attack (but mainly because Tiruin's bafflements seemed to flow from genuine uncertainty and the post after she got clarification from Wuba seemed genuine).
Post by: flabort on August 10, 2014, 03:05:26 pm
flabort: You indicated that you think 4maskwolf is a jester. What do you believe is the best way to deal with jesters? In addition, you are voting for Cheeetar. Your last interaction with him was a while back (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552992#msg5552992). Do you believe Cheeetar is scum? If so, why aren't you trying to strengthen your case? If you don't think he's scum, why are you voting for him?I'd forgot I had that vote on him. And I guess he's been thoroughly corrected on how a miller works, so I guess there's no reason to leave it on him.
I think the likelyhood of him being scum is a bit higher than average, a slight lean in that direction.
Quote
he's not doing all that much, which seems unusual for him.Ahahaha! Someone who knows more about what I do than I do!
I personally don't think I've been any less active than usual, but if you've got an eye to catch that, then good work! Though it is harder to keep track of my thoughts with more people, so that may be contributing.
More RVS questions!
4maskwolf At what point is it most important for one to claim? What is the best time for a scum to fake claim?
Cheeetar When should a cop claim? When shouldn't a cop claim? If a cop receives an investigation result of third-party, should he claim?
Flabort Are you safe? Yes.
TolyK What variety of tuber is your favorite? I'm partial to Yukon Gold myself. How many potato varieties can you think of without turning to wikipedia?
Imp What do you think of Nerjin's Role-tato Play? Is it too over the top?
IronyOwl What kinds of common scum strategies (such as bussing or fake-cop) are you most expecting to see? Least expecting to see?
Jack A T What BYORs have you participated in? Which BYOR was your favorite?
Jiokuy How do you like potatoes served best? How often do you eat potatoes or food made out of them? How often should one review who they think is most suspicious?
Nerjin Is your role that of a specific President? Which President? Who is the Vice President?
notquitethere If you were a self-doctor, would you always doctor yourself? What situations would you protect someone else in?
Persus13 What is your opinion on nonsense questions?
Scripten Three potatoes walk into a bar. One of them kills another, and one commits suicide. Two potatoes leave the bar. How? And do you think this has any relevance to this game? How?
Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?
Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?
Tiruin Do you think it might be possible that some players are somewhat psychic, or do you think that any signs of that are just them being really lucky or observant?
Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?
Varee Who do you most suspect of having the ability to kill someone? Do you suspect those players of being scum?
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 03:12:09 pm
notquitethere If you were a self-doctor, would you always doctor yourself? What situations would you protect someone else in?I'd pretty much protect myself every time unless I had compelling reason to believe a confirmed town player was going to be night killed. For instance, if a cop claimed and that claim got scum lynched that day, the following night I'd protect the cop instead of myself. Curious as all this, do you think this answer would have been different if I'd have been mafia or 3rd party?
Post by: IronyOwl on August 10, 2014, 04:32:32 pm
IronyOwl
IronyOwl: Would you rather have a one-shot full rolecop or a regular doc ability?Regular Doc. A one-shot rolecop can prevent us from lynching someone who was useless anyway, or be held onto so I have it with me when I die. Trust me, I'm a potion hoarder, I know how these things go.
Other than that, it gives me a lot of information I probably can't use, and which if I could share we could probably get by just asking them to roleclaim.
A regular doc ability, on the other hand, can be fired at someone I like each night, and maybe cost scum a kill eventually. That's basically granting town an extra day, which is infinitely more valuable than letting me know somebody's got a follow, roleblock, and self-revive.
Varee:
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?How much lying were you intending to do this game?
Tiruin:
Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?Particular-...What?
It's all up to you to believe me--considering the replies I've had, it was believed. :V
If you want to actually believe in it, contrast and compare my attitude instead of the bloody label.
It's pretty much a heads-up that I'll inspect as scum no matter what.
How believable is that to you, because I can't understand what's your motive or your thoughts behind the observation there.
Could you explain, just like Cheeetar?[/quote]
Seems pretty simple to me. You claimed to see how everyone would react to it, right? Why would you need to actually have such a role to do that, then? Couldn't you have claimed miller to see how we'd react even though you weren't one?
IronyOwlHm. Usually attitude and wording, more specifically behaviors that seem like they're lazy or disingenuous.
Black or white morality, how do you see that in terms of a Mafia game?
Meaning: What do you base your judgement of seeing someone as scummy by? Their attitude, wording, emotional-attachment...?
Cheeetar:
Alright. Given the resolution of my suspicions, I'll unvote Tiruin.What exactly was the resolution of your suspicions? I seem to have missed the point where you stopped saying "Tiruin is dangerous or scum let's lynch her" and started saying "Yeah I don't really believe that anymore." What happened, exactly?
Persus:
Warning - while you were reading 80 new replies have been posted. I think I win?Mother of God.
4mask:
IronyOwl: If you were a watcher, what types of powers would you want in order to accomplish your wincon.The obvious and presumably overpowered- something to keep me alive.
Less direct methods of avoiding kills, like redirects or roleblocks, would be a bit hit-or-miss for my tastes.
That said, roleblocks or protects to extend the game rather than save my hide could prove useful. I wouldn't typically be concerned about being lynched, though if I get inspected as third party that could end poorly.
I wouldn't generally value things to make me useful to town or scum, because said things are likely to make me a target to the other group. Though on that note, revives could be another game-extending shenanigan. In fact, a one-shot revive could put me above suspicion or murder, if I revived some dumb mislynched townie N1, claimed it D2, and then swore I had no more powers and was therefore ultasafe to leave un-NK'd.
Yeah, I like that. A one-shot revive, maybe some RBs or something.
Toaster:
4mask:Also this, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119041.msg3922643#msg3922643) which I can't believe was from a different game.Toaster: What in particular appeals to you about the arsonist?3) This. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63487.msg1554852#msg1554852)
Hm.Probably.
I'm probably paranoid, but you should probably refrain from saying any variant of the P-word around Flabort.
flabort:
IronyOwl What kinds of common scum strategies (such as bussing or fake-cop) are you most expecting to see? Least expecting to see?Most? Late-game fakeclaims. Least? Early-game fakeclaims. In a game this big and power-heavy, everything is likely to go to hell for everyone, which makes intricate scum plans even riskier and more difficult to pull off than normal.
Also lurking/active lurking. A game this big is just asking for scum to coast by.
Post by: TolyK on August 10, 2014, 05:16:00 pm
@Tiruin I've already answered that, I think, look at my previous post.
@nqt: Toaster 4mask Cheetar Irony. That good for you?
@flabort Even though I live in a country (in)famous in Europe for being potatostan, I do not know any varieties of potatoes, not do I think anyone else knows) Why are you so after potatoes? Looking for the Irish?)
Post by: notquitethere on August 10, 2014, 05:19:04 pm
And so why aren't you voting anyone you might think is scum?
Post by: Nerjin on August 10, 2014, 05:23:21 pm
Nerjin: Please answer my questions:Nerjin: Can you explain how flabort's question to Cheeetar about PFP players is irrelevant enough to the game, compared to the average RVS question, that you felt it was necessary to take a shot at him for?Also, what do you think 4mask is?
As a side note, I fully understood flabort's question to me (it's based on an odd private conversation the two of us had a while back in which we ended up coming up with roles for Mario characters). With that information added, do you still see it as irrelevant?
Well the PFP question in, well, question was one that I found irrelevant as it makes no difference whether an American is short or tall. White or black or any other ethnicity. It matters not if they are a genius or a moron. All that matters is that they are American and dead set against those communist lackwits who dared attack America's food production industry. In the end I felt that it didn't matter whether someone was PFPing or not. After getting the full facts, however, I am forced to rescind my statement of it being irrelevant. One who fears not being taken seriously, is right to do so under these circumstances.
My early statement also applies to your second point about Mario characters. Given the proper context I can see why it might have been more useful than first thought.
As for 4mask heh heh, well... Well I think it would best be explained by one of inspirational quotes: "Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing."
What I mean by this is that he is, at BEST, worthless as he doesn't care. At worst he is a detriment to America. I hope this helps you understand my vote and my thoughts
Quote
*Nerjin: Is not my head of state. Buried underneath his AMERICAN PATRIOTIC FERVOR is some content (best seen here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555371#msg5555371)). Did snap at 4maskwolf for his needlessly long post, and threaten to vote to lynch 4mask, but did so out of character. I get the feeling that that move was out of rage. Neutral read.
Oh, but I am your President I'm afraid. However when my term is up I encourage you NOT to vote for re-election. Mind you, I use the term vote in regards to a different meaning than is currently applied at this party. If you wish my resignation by all means vote for it. After all, the right to vote is what keeps America strong.
Nerjin Is your role that of a specific President? Which President? Who is the Vice President?
My role is me. I am your President as I have no doubt mentioned before. As for which President? As I've said before it is a matter of national security. I cannot divulge the information. As for my Vice President? Well I'm afraid he is no longer with us. However, one day, after all of this is over, we shall appoint a new Vice President. It is unfortunate what befell our beloved Vice President. Allow us all a moment of silence...
Well I'm sorry to leave our conversation on such a sorrowful note. For now though America, reflect on what I've told you with a solemn frame of mind. We WILL catch those responsible. We WILL find those who have destroyed our cake. And we WILL deal with them properly.
That's all for now America. Stay safe, stay alert, and above all else: Stay American.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 10, 2014, 06:22:59 pm
Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 10, 2014, 06:24:09 pm
Post by: flabort on August 10, 2014, 06:52:50 pm
I think it does. Reading the opening post Webadict specifically spells out thirteen alignments, including a number of third-party ones with names for each. I think the result of an investigation probably says the name of such.
This is, I realise, making the assumption that an alignment cop's investigation returns the victory condition. If they're just told it's a third party... I'd say they should probably still claim on it if there are no real leads, but it's less of a sure thing than a scum result.
What is your opinion on Lyncher? Seeing as I was one in Jack's Simple BYOR, and that was using the alignment list of Wuba's, I think I can say I know what I'd do if I found one, but how would you react to a lyncher?
Right. I propose the theory that if Nerjin does indeed have a post restriction, which I'm doubting but think it's possible, then anything that is a "matter of national security" is something he can't talk about.Nerjin Is your role that of a specific President? Which President? Who is the Vice President?
My role is me. I am your President as I have no doubt mentioned before. As for which President? As I've said before it is a matter of national security. I cannot divulge the information. As for my Vice President? Well I'm afraid he is no longer with us.
That said, aw... that's sad. Poor Mr. Vice President.
But how can we trust our faithful president if he won't even show his true face? He speaks on camera but hides himself behind a mask, and filters out his voice. We hear him, but he has no identity. How can we trust that?
@flabort Even though I live in a country (in)famous in Europe for being potatostan, I do not know any varieties of potatoes, not do I think anyone else knows) Why are you so after potatoes? Looking for the Irish?)Nope, not looking for anyone in particular. Well, maybe someone who I can trust, and looking for scum, but I'm not hunting the Irish, no.
It's just that I have so many potatoes. Enough to feed... I dunno, lots of people for a long time.
As for how many varieties there are, it's a lot. Off the top of my own head, I can think of Fingerlings, Yukon Gold, Red Russet, and... OK, I can only think of three, but there are lots. Oh, and yams. It's important to have some sweet among the starch.
Come to think of it, no it wouldn't have been.notquitethere If you were a self-doctor, would you always doctor yourself? What situations would you protect someone else in?I'd pretty much protect myself every time unless I had compelling reason to believe a confirmed town player was going to be night killed. For instance, if a cop claimed and that claim got scum lynched that day, the following night I'd protect the cop instead of myself. Curious as all this, do you think this answer would have been different if I'd have been mafia or 3rd party?
Thinking of questions that would yield different answers is hard, especially since it comes off looking like role-fishing most of the time. Granted, a lot of the time it is role-fishing.
This is why I'm fascinated and frustrated with the Bay12 standard of asking questions instead of shooting blindly from the hip. It does make the game more balanced, but it's difficult to actually be effective. Even harder to blend in and not be noticed, too.
Speaking of which, do you ever try not to be noticed? When?
I seem to have done that thing where I chip through posts bit at a time, then get to the end and not really want to go back through the whole thing looking for questions and things of note. Oops.Hmm. That's probably what piqued Jack's radar, since I think that's what I was doing too.
flabort:IronyOwl What kinds of common scum strategies (such as bussing or fake-cop) are you most expecting to see? Least expecting to see?Most? Late-game fakeclaims. Least? Early-game fakeclaims. In a game this big and power-heavy, everything is likely to go to hell for everyone, which makes intricate scum plans even riskier and more difficult to pull off than normal.
Also lurking/active lurking. A game this big is just asking for scum to coast by.
I see. When you say intricate, does that imply a risk to the plan? Or does this risk only come about from this game being so "big and power heavy"?
So then what is your response to inactivity? What do you define as active lurking as opposed to lurking? What is lurking as opposed to inactivity?
Post by: Varee on August 10, 2014, 07:56:48 pm
Varee:so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?How much lying were you intending to do this game?
Well I was planning to keep it to minimal and people answer to that question kinda make that seem like a good plan.
Varee Who do you most suspect of having the ability to kill someone? Do you suspect those players of being scum?I have a feeling that alot of player will have one shot kill. thoses are not likely scum but it can just be as bad.
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[size=78%]Varee, who is the most suspicious player in the game right now?I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guess
Post by: webadict on August 10, 2014, 08:35:19 pm
You'd be wrong. Normal inspects only return Town, Mafia, or Third Party. Special inspections can return varying results depending, but a normal inspects only returns three results.I think it does. Reading the opening post Webadict specifically spells out thirteen alignments, including a number of third-party ones with names for each. I think the result of an investigation probably says the name of such.
This is, I realise, making the assumption that an alignment cop's investigation returns the victory condition. If they're just told it's a third party... I'd say they should probably still claim on it if there are no real leads, but it's less of a sure thing than a scum result.
Post by: flabort on August 10, 2014, 09:00:16 pm
A normal inspect you say? But this is a Bring Your Own Role, wouldn't that imply that most roles are, by their very nature, not normal? That a normal role is abnormal?
*Dr. Forman Voice*
That's ridiculous. Each role is composed of multiple parts, some of them have to be-
*House*
You'd be right, if it weren't for the symptoms already present in the other patients. Some very unusual roles, wouldn't you agree?
*Dr. Chase*
I think this is it. House has officially gone insane. Flabort too.
*Dr. Forman*
Start them both on regular therapy and remedial lessons on mafia.
Post by: Scripten on August 10, 2014, 09:32:02 pm
Scripten:Imp, Cheetar, & Shakerag: I haven't played or seen a game of mafia in which you've taken part, but you seem to be a regular around these parts. What's your strong suite; day or night game?Why don't you go back and read games that I've been in and formulate your own opinion, then?
How does one have a strong night game anyway? All you do is send in an action (or not).
Missed this one way back.
How does one have a strong night game? Well, so far as I've seen it, you often have players who are especially good at figuring out who is the best target of their abilities. Supernatural games seem to have a lot of night play, for example. A strong day game would be a mostly vanilla town in a standard mafia game. I'm most comfortable with my day game right now, but I'd like to get better with night-time actions and roles that use them better. I've seen games won by town power roles, so a strong night game is pretty important, I think.
Scripten How do you best make use of a multiple voting role?
And this one.
Honestly, I've never had this come up. I'd probably be fairly conservative with it. I'd either only use it on confirmed scum or in a situation where idle players are risking a town win.
So, thoughts thus far:
- Cheetar pushed an early lynch pretty hard, then backpedaled when confronted. Not a strong tell, but it caught my eye.
- Nerjin's reaction to 4mask's one post was reactionary to the point where it didn't feel genuine. Might have been, but I'm not sure.
- Tiruin almost seems to be pleading not to be investigated. While I understand this wastes a night if she's town and a miller, it seems... far too blatant to be wholly truthful. She does eventually become flustered, which I've seen before and is a bit of a town tell for her. (Also, condolences for the crappy past few days there, Tiruin.)
- Varee is, as I've seen before, a little hard to read. Null tell on him, but I want to see more of him. Day 2 will probably help with that.
- Toaster and TolyK have been quiet and unreadable. Legit reasons for Toaster, but TolyK makes me suspicious. He feels... off, maybe evasive, and certainly loathe to use his vote.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 03:34:14 am
TolyPrecisely because shooting from the hip. I don't have any good picks yet.
And so why aren't you voting anyone you might think is scum?
Yes, Scripten, I'm always cautious on using my vote.
Pfp
Post by: Imp on August 11, 2014, 09:59:28 am
Imp, is this going to be one of those games where you post right at the end of each day?Dunno yet. Our day end comes during worktime for me, so if work's slow it could happen. When work's busy definitely won't happen.
Jack A T:
Imp: Alright. You designed your answer to Varee to best influence him based on impressions you got from his post. Do you continue to get these impressions from Varee?No. I now think he asked
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?expecting to get the obvious answer, not because he was seriously asking about something he was unsure of for himself and deciding about.
Jack, your list of reads includes only 15 players, is your impression of Shakerag utterly null?
Flabort:
OK. Let me clarify..... http://trollpasta.wikia.com/wiki/File:Scary-potato.jpg All I can think of in response to that.
These specific potatoes are among the creepiest things on the internet.
I'd forgot I had that vote on him. And I guess he's been thoroughly corrected on how a miller works, so I guess there's no reason to leave it on him.
I think the likelyhood of him being scum is a bit higher than average, a slight lean in that direction.
Do you tend to forget about what you are doing with your vote?
Would you explain a bit more about how Cheeetar's being 'thoroughly corrected on how a miller works' makes you 'guess there's no reason to leave [your vote] on him', despite immediately following that comment with the statement that you think Cheeetar is more likely than average to be scum? If he had not been corrected, would that be reason to continue to vote for him?
Imp What do you think of Nerjin's Role-tato Play? Is it too over the top?Nerjin started this RP early. Pre-game, even, he inned with it.
Hello my fellow Americins. This is your presidint, Nerjin. Signin off.I think Nerjin is a formulaic player; every game I've seen him in he has taken 'something' and pushed it pretty far. This is the first time I've seen direct RP be the 'something' for his play. Just the RP by itself, it's amusing and 'nice' to me; I actually enjoy it more than I do your potato puns, but I'm partial to effort and I don't mind reading; Nerjin's working a bit to make those posts.
Outside of style and RP, I'd like him to do more scumhunting and I'd like his RP (since he's using it and only it) to more clearly state his stances (other than being president, that's pretty clear). But it is early game, and it is Nerjin. I participated heavily in an early mislynch of Nerjin my second Mafia game (we were both Town, Supernatural 6). I'm hoping this game I can better pick 'alignment' from 'strengths and weaknesses of the player'. That can be really hard to do, we'll see.
So for me it's not too over the top, but I hope to see him -do- more, period, with or without the RP as he pleases. Do more scumhunting, especially.
Varee, the content of your posts is raising my hackles. I may be misunderstanding you, and it wouldn't be the first time this game, but here's what I think I'm seeing.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5561870#msg5561870) you answer two questions about your suspicions in a way that makes it clear you have none; you even outright state
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet....Will just have to wait and see i guessyou also answer IronyOwl's challenge in a way that seems appeasing. You say your plan to minimally lie is good, despite claiming
I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet.because of the way people answered your "question with one clearly correct answer" which makes that seem 'like a good plan'. You're actively trying, not to scum hunt - you don't even have any suspicions, you're not chasing to find any - you're actively trying to fit in and be liked. You're trying to answer IronyOwl's question in a way that makes you look good.
Even in asking this question...
I dont know the threshold of lying in this forum yet. I think it is not so bad to fake noob as you are most likly to pull it off once and in that byor it was close to the end so i decide to do it.
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
...it's intended to be rhetorical. It's all part of trying to fit in for you.
You make repeated statements...
First thing is i need to sort though this 6 page of stuff that pop up when i sleep and 6 more when i return home..... then maybe i can start forming some question....
It is more of the go to bed and woke up to 4-5 new pages of stuff in the morning. Just the sheer amount of people in this game is giving me head ache. I have a feeling i wont be able to read every single post.
I personally not a conversation heavy guy. It might be the style i play before which is pretty much speed mafia. Also my limited interaction of posting like one or twice a day also impose a limit on my ability to use conversation effectively....but we've known we had 17 players in this game since July 27th.
You can do a great job as a player posting just once a day - one content-filled interactive post a day is perfectly adequate. But you need to post content; you need to do what you can to scumhunt, to discuss and interact. Not 'just respond', but -interact-. If you cannot track all 16 other players, then you track the 5 or 9 or 13 that you can, and shift your focus over time as you get a feel for the people you interact with.
You need to form opinions, you need to do what you need to do to attempt to sort us faceless people into probable baddies and goodies. We know we have baddies among us. The only thing we don't know is who they are. That's what we're supposed to be trying to figure out. Only you're not trying at all yet that I can see. You don't look like you're trying find Scum. You look like you're trying to fit in, and you even say you're not suspicious of anyone.
You know who tries to fit in, and who doesn't have any suspicions? Scum.
They know who the bad guys are. And they just want to fit in. You look the scummiest here to me.
Are you interested in finding scum, and willing to put some work into it; into getting some interaction going with people, and trying to get a feel for who -you- do find more and less suspicious? Cause you don't even look like you are trying to do that, at all.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 11, 2014, 10:41:40 am
Well, while I'm waiting on Jiokuy to show signs of life...eh. I don't really think the odds of me being lynched are all that high, seeing as how I think I have two votes on me right now.
4maskwolf: Do you think the most likely outcome of Day 1 is your lynch, given that you seem fairly resigned and 3 votes are on you? (3 of the 9 necessary is not that much, mind.)
If so: Do you have anything to say that will aid town upon your flip? Any suspicions we can reliably trust if you flip town or uninvolved third party?
If not: Who do you think is acting scummy- would you like to put your vote and scumhunting abilities to use?
My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.
Now it's time to read what happened this weekend.
Post by: Varee on August 11, 2014, 10:46:25 am
snipSo it is bad to not vote people, not trying to ask question? It doesnt mean I dont care it is just that i dont know what to ask you guys. Most people put out like 15 null read and a few other read so i dont think am the only one without any specific target yet. Just because I complain about a lot of thing to read doesnt mean I wont read it. So Imp what do you really want me to do ? ask people more random question? or dig up more discussion about miller claim ?
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 11:31:42 am
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.
I agree with you opinion that Nerjin's posts should contain more content per RP. I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
And that's a good answer. Unvote
Varee I wouldn't say it's bad not to vote, as long as you eventually do; by this point in the day, most players should have voted someone once, but don't necessarily have had to if they've been scum-hunting well. It's the not-asking-questions part that bugs me. I think you should try even if you just ask nonsense.
4mask I think that OMGUS is almost just as bad as the reason Nerjin voted you. It seems petty to me.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 11:32:39 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 11, 2014, 11:34:16 am
4mask I think that OMGUS is almost just as bad as the reason Nerjin voted you. It seems petty to me.My only current lead is Nerjin's seeming uncaring nature towards where or why his vote is wielded. As such, I will vote following that.
Nerjin: rationale behind threatening the vote and voting me, if you wouldn't mind.
Post by: Shakerag on August 11, 2014, 11:35:53 am
flabort:
Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Unvote
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 11:45:32 am
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
flabort:I see. So when looking for mistakes, one should examine angry posts first?Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Post by: Shakerag on August 11, 2014, 11:56:33 am
I think when one is looking for mistakes one should analyze all posts, but anything with strong emotion in it should be carefully looked at. Whether you want to do that first or not is up to you, I suppose.flabort:I see. So when looking for mistakes, one should examine angry posts first?Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Any particular reason you're asking me for advice on how to pick a mislynch target instead of your scumbuddies, flabort?
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 12:04:08 pm
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
Post by: Shakerag on August 11, 2014, 12:27:07 pm
Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
Post by: Toaster on August 11, 2014, 12:47:31 pm
America
When are you up for reelection? Have you reached your term limit? Who do you suspect of being a terrorist?
What benefit do you find in your politician-speak obfuscating your posts?
NQT:
ToasterWilliam Shatner?Not. even. close.
Picard, then. With powers such as "The Picard Maneuver" and "Facepalm".
Toaster, theory time now: does it matter for the town's chances of success who gets voted on Day 1?
Absolutely.
That said, I'd say it does make more impact based on the role of the player eliminated. Think Paranormal; what if an Advanced Doppelganger or Exterminator got lynched the first day? That'd make things significantly easier for town.
I guess it's more likely for a D1 lynch to make things better for town than worse, given the town's power is almost never concentrated on one person.
In terms of day-game, not as much. A successful lynch of scum would lead to analysis of how others dealt with that player, which could yield hints toward teammates, while D1 interactions with a townie are almost always unhelpful.
(I also realized I read "voted" as "lynched" in your question; I hope that's what you meant.)
Flabort:
Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?
Until day-end Friday, yes. Over the weekend, that was procrastination on my part. Also, if I'm quiet this week before Friday, feel free to call me out over it. I'm good until then.
Do you see value in shooting off that many questions?
Shakerag:
Shakerag When is the appropriate time to be angry at a player? Should you post on Mafia while angry?When is the appropriate time? Whenever someone does something boneheaded.
Should you post angry? I don't see why not. Sometimes that raw emotion can help persuade others. Of course, it can be easier to make mistakes when posting angry as well. So I suppose that's a bit of a double-edged sword.
Posting drunk is more fun.
Do you expect to get a third party role from your Shakerag© submissions?
I suspect that post "restrictions" are probably optional but provide some benefit to the participant.
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 12:54:48 pm
flabort:Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
Flabort:Yes, I do. It makes sure that I don't miss anyone and forget that someone exists, therefor letting me remember to evaluate that player, and get more information on each player. Even the nonsense questions garner information about the player, resulting in the philosophy that "More questions equals more results".Toaster I don't recall that you've been any more active than me. Is this due to the eye problems?
Until day-end Friday, yes. Over the weekend, that was procrastination on my part. Also, if I'm quiet this week before Friday, feel free to call me out over it. I'm good until then.
Do you see value in shooting off that many questions?
Post by: Toaster on August 11, 2014, 12:56:27 pm
flabort:Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.Wait, advice on a mislynch target? That's not what that is!Oh, I don't think you're trying to lynch one of your scumbuddies. I think you're trying to mislynch some random townie. I just wonder why you want my advice over the advice of your scumbuddies. Shouldn't they be helping you figure out how to take an emotional reaction and turn it into a lynch?
It's getting a firm grasp of your level of skill, and learning from that.
I don't have any "buddies" that I care about. I'm not trying to drive the lynch away from anyone.
But then again, WIFOM, now you think I'm trying to get my buddies lynched.
Seriously, based on your comment, who would you assume my "buddies" are? I think most of the players have had an emotional reaction so far.
That's some nice WIFOM you're pouring there.
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 01:06:28 pm
That's some nice WIFOM you're pouring there.It's impossible to answer the question without WIFOM (Actually, Vodka would be more appropriate than Wine). If I asked you why you weren't getting help from your scumbuddies about something, your answer would be the same.
That said, "Why aren't your buddies helping you catch up?"
Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"
Nerjin "Why aren't your buddies helping you disprove doubt about any post restrictions?"
I predict that all three questions will result in very VIFOM answers.
Post by: Jack A T on August 11, 2014, 01:12:03 pm
Jack A T What BYORs have you participated in? Which BYOR was your favorite?flabort: Off the top of my head (this is probably an incomplete list), I've played in BYOR 6.3, BYOR 7 (my favorite), BYOR 11, Bring Someone Else's Role, Bring Your Own Historical Figure, Why Would You Do That?: A Mafia Misadventure, Bring Your Own Picture, Bring Your Own Picture 2, and Totem Mafia. I have run a BYOR as well.
How is this answer going to help you in the long run? Why so much RVS stuff now, when people are and have been making serious accusations?
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read? You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.
@nqt: Toaster 4mask Cheetar Irony. That good for you?TolyK: And why, if shooting from the hip, would you think they are scum? Anything specific of note about them?
Erp, sorry. Anyway- I see RVS votes as votes in Day 1 which have basically no reason. By no reason, I don't mean they can't attach a reason- just that if the reason is really silly, it might as well be no reason. For example, I see "I'm voting Varee because he likes oranges and only the scum like oranges" as more or less the same as "I'm voting 4maskwolf for being rude only the scum are rude."Cheeetar: Ah, we have very similar views of RVS votes. You just failed to take tone into account. There's a difference between the latter of those two "reasons" and the vote placed by Persus13: tone. He wasn't making a joke vote, and it showed. So I voted, and got him to explain his vote more. By the time you came in, even if you saw the initial vote as looking like RVS-type stuff, you should have noticed that Persus was trying to put together a case.
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guessVaree: Might it be a better idea to try to dig for suspicious stuff? Ask questions and such?
Jack, your list of reads includes only 15 players, is your impression of Shakerag utterly null?Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.
On Shakerag: He's here, he says his role won't screw everyone over, and he's active. He did attack and vote Persus13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555451#msg5555451) for Persus's Wolf vote without reading a large part of the justification of the vote, making him come off as a bit twitchy. Wary neutral read.
A question to you: Have you read my recent BYOR (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139254.0)? It may be of use to see how Varee played there.
My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
UnvoteShakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote. Why?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 11, 2014, 01:42:32 pm
I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum. There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 02:06:49 pm
Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
Post by: Nerjin on August 11, 2014, 02:44:24 pm
Nerjin:America
When are you up for reelection? Have you reached your term limit? Who do you suspect of being a terrorist?
What benefit do you find in your politician-speak obfuscating your posts?
In order: After this party, Not yet, I suspect 4mask of being detrimental to America [or town if you prefer]. I do not see my posting style obscuring what I'm saying. There is a little more, yes, but isn't the point of America? Just the right amount, of a little more. My main points are easy to see however, if you're willing to actually read them.
Nerjin "Why aren't your buddies helping you disprove doubt about any post restrictions?"
Well, you see Dear Potato, I do not have buddies. A politician who panders to his audience is insulting both the public and himself. If everyone were to hate me as president I would be proud so long as I was effective. I will admit that I've not been as effective as I'd like. However, so many players make it hard to focus on enough to be effective. I will focus on those I view as communistic terrorists. Namely 4mask. As I said, he does not care. He has stated as much. At best he is useless. At worst he is a detriment. Until I see something else, more harsh that catches my eye, I shall remain firmly on 4mask. However, I don't see why you think I am a communist sympathizer. If you could show me your thought process, I would be more than happy to answer any further questions.j
Now, America, I would like to address 4mask directly:
4mask
How did it come to this?
I think it is more likely scum than town because the scum don't care who they use their vote on, as long as someone not-them gets lynched, while the town would want to ensure their lynch is a scum. There isn't a particular advantage to the scum, other than they get to use their vote and seem active.My scum pick right now is Nerjin, for threatening to vote me out of irritation over a single post. While I can understand his frustration, threatening a vote over a minor nuisance like that is beyond what I would expect from someone.4maskwolf: An interesting move, but not an impressive one. What makes scum more likely than town to do what Nerjin did? Where's the advantage to scum?
You make a few assumptions: The worst being that I am voting you over one post. No. I am actually voting you because of a poor posting style [the wall of text] that wasted everyone's time. If that had been all I would not be voting you. There is, in fact, more. Specifically:
You shouldn't care about me being alive. Nobody but me knows my alignment, I could be anti-town for all you know. If you really want to lynch me, feel free.
An American [or townie if you prefer] should NEVER want to die like that. Your death means nothing to you. You don't care enough to even attempt to try and hunt communists [or scum-hunt if you please] to prove yourself town. But there's even more than that:
You're active lurking. You have several posts detailing nothing. Not answering questions. Not asking questions. Only posting.
I'll admit it's not much to go on. However, on day one, it is the strongest argument one can put together.
If you will: Answer me this question: Do you feel you have played to the best of your abilities, and if so, how?
I look forward to hearing your answer.
That is all for now America. Farewell for now.
Post by: Shakerag on August 11, 2014, 03:05:23 pm
Do you expect to get a third party role from your Shakerag© submissions?Honestly? I never know what alignment I'm going to get. Nor do I really anticipate a certain alignment from my submissions. My expectations are just for something novel and creative, really.
Do you submit roles with certain kinds of power/alignment expectations yourself?
flabort:
Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Also, your first clause isn't logical (as scumbuddies are not obligated to help each other), and your second clause, restated, is "because my scumbuddies are not helping me, therefore they must not exist".
Smells kind of "begging the question"-ish to me, and it looks like you're admitting that you have unhelpful scumbuddies.
Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies. Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right?
To directly answer your question: I'm not knowingly setting up a mislynch, and I furthermore do not have any buddies to my knowledge.
Jack A T:
Shakerag: Alright, you've abandoned your Persus vote. Why?It was just a reaction vote. As in, I was wanting to see how he'd react to being voted. Also, found a better location for my vote.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 03:19:37 pm
Also, Idaho. Mr. President must know that Idaho is important.
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 03:38:44 pm
flabort:Touche. That is not the vibe I meant to give off, but I don't have scumbuddies, helpful or not.Exactly. If I had Scumbuddies, they'd be helping me with that. Since their not, I don't.While Toaster beat me to the punch, I feel obligated to say "that's exactly what scum would say".
Also, your first clause isn't logical (as scumbuddies are not obligated to help each other), and your second clause, restated, is "because my scumbuddies are not helping me, therefore they must not exist".
Smells kind of "begging the question"-ish to me, and it looks like you're admitting that you have unhelpful scumbuddies.
Actually, I kind of wish I did. I'm pretty good at playing scum, I think, since it just seems easier. "Proving" I'm not scum becomes a simple matter of fabricating evidence; same with "Proving" that I don't have scumbuddies. As town, I actually have to look around and do shit, which takes a whole lot more work.
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Quicker to type. I did mean "your scumbuddies". But I was hungry and wanted to eat.Shakerag "Why aren't your buddies helping you mislynch me?"I am noting you dropped the "scum" off of buddies. Hard to call someone else scum when you know you're the scum, right?
To directly answer your question: I'm not knowingly setting up a mislynch, and I furthermore do not have any buddies to my knowledge.
Speaking of which, has McDonalds ever given you Four Pies when you asked for Two?
And I'm not knowing setting anything up either. And therein lies my point: I can't prove that you're lying and you can't prove that I'm lying; quite possibly because we're both telling the truth. And I assure you I am telling the truth.
I am most definitely pota-town.
Damn anti-federalists...Ah, very true. The debt generated by Idaho is very low, making it one of the more profitable states for the country to keep around.
Also, Idaho. Mr. President must know that Idaho is important.
Nerjin It's not that I suspect you of being a sympathiser, as I was proving a point to our dear friend Toaster, and his pal Shakerag. My though process is that you of all people would be the most likely to evade and least likely to answer with a WIFOM'y answer. And even though you obscured your answer with president-talk, I still see a WIFOM in the answer. THEREFOR proving my point that it was the question, and not the answer, that generated the WIFOM, making shakerag the guilty party.
4mask, Nerjin still holds you in suspicion. Who do you suspect? What do you think specifically about Nerjin, Shakerag, and Toaster?
Jack A T Then I shall go read BYOR 7, and glean information and strategy for application here.
As for why so much RVS, I don't feel like the serious accusations being flung around are correct. Not many of them feel like they synergize; most are mutually exclusive. When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere. So by asking more questions, I draw out more accusations in the hopes that some of them synergize.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 11, 2014, 03:48:12 pm
Just skimmed through the pages of posts for the questions addressed to me. I'll go back through everything again on Sunday. Apologies if I missed anything.
Eagerly awaiting your opinions on the day so far, Silthuri.
Flabort, I'm not sure this talk of "If I had buddies" is at all useful as a debate if it comes from the person you intend to lynch. By all means, discuss it if somebody accuses you of having scumbuddies in detail - 'If Toaster is my scumbuddy, why was he voting for me before?' and such, but it's just WIFOM if you bring it up as a talking point yourself.
Imp: Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.
I agree with you opinion that Nerjin's posts should contain more content per RP. I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
And that's a good answer. Unvote
Varee I wouldn't say it's bad not to vote, as long as you eventually do; by this point in the day, most players should have voted someone once, but don't necessarily have had to if they've been scum-hunting well. It's the not-asking-questions part that bugs me. I think you should try even if you just ask nonsense.
This unvote and quick re-vote on the target Imp voted for pinged me on the scum-o-meter.
Fake edit: And it seems you've already given up on that vote- did it not gain enough traction? With such a quick abandonment of your previous vote, with what seems a blatant OMGUS (I don't see much reasoning behind your Shakerag vote) I will unvote Jiokuy the idle and vote for you, Flabort.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 03:55:22 pm
That is not the vibe I meant to give offOf course you didn't mean to, because you are trying to look town. Even though you're not.
Post by: Scripten on August 11, 2014, 03:55:22 pm
TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 03:56:47 pm
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...
Post by: Imp on August 11, 2014, 04:03:54 pm
So Imp what do you really want me to do ?Do what you (hopefully) want to do, chase your Wincon. Right now you're chasing 'don't target me' and 'I want to fit in'.
So it is bad to not vote people, not trying to ask question? It doesnt mean I dont care it is just that i dont know what to ask you guys. i dont think am the only one without any specific target yet.
Two different concepts mixed here. No, it is not bad to not vote, and it is not bad to lack a specific target. We all start the game in an unvoted condition, and only the executioners have a specific target from the start.
However, yes it usually is bad not to ask questions. Beyond that, it -is- bad to fail and engage. How the heck do you intend to -gain- any targets without engaging?
How do you intend to find something to discuss and decided if who you talk with is suspicious if you don't engage and interact?
Scum don't have the same need to engage and would often rather not do so.
Just because I complain about a lot of thing to read doesnt mean I wont read it."doesnt mean I wont read it" (that implies future tense, you have not read most of the thread yet but will) or "doesnt mean I haven't read it" (which implies past tense, that you already have read the thread)?
ask people more random question? or dig up more discussion about miller claim ?Hrm. True or false: There is nothing going on in this thread that you are aware of other than the miller claim (and presumably now my challenge to you), so you have only two options, you can poke at the miller claim or you can ask people 'more' random questions.
I have to put more in '' because... you actually haven't asked random questions, unless that's what you call these to me. Sure, you can skip the random questions step, I've seen it done before and it's actually a bit late to start now (but if that's what you feel helps your wincon best, do what you need to do).
But you're also claiming, in your reaction to my challenge, that there's nothing going on to react to or discuss except that miller claim. And before that you claimed you had no suspicions.
Scum don't have the same motivation to read the thread that many other roles do. There's precious little puzzle for them in that thread other than picking who to use what powers on when.
flabort
Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it. Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?
My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar. I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please. Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.
Someone is Scum or they are not (conversions aside). They are Scum or not regardless of what they misinterpret and no matter if they are dense or clever. How can you 'have a case' that someone is Scummy because of what they say, but later you say 'I don't have a case' because they learn something new or change their mind? Scum don't stop being Scum because they change their mind.
Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.I'm getting closer? That was my first and only offering. You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that. I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy. But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start. I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though. I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack. That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town. Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum? I don't think I've ever seen that. Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections. There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.
Ever heard of bandwagon?
Discuss these ideas, yours and mine, further please.
Jack A T
Imp: I must have accidentally skipped over him on the list.I have not. I'll start chewing on it tonight, time permitting, thanks for the suggestion.
A question to you: Have you read my recent BYOR (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139254.0)? It may be of use to see how Varee played there.
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 04:19:36 pm
-snip-Heehee. Seems I'm doing nothing right today :P
As previously mentioned, I kind of tend to forget what I'm doing with my votes.
Let's see if I can recall why I did those votes... If I remember right, neither my vote on Varee or my vote on Imp was very serious. They didn't "Gain much traction" because they had very little to begin with. Yes, I'm aware that I FoS'd 4mask in the same posts, which makes my Varee and Imp votes pretty serious; however, did you even see what I was voting Imp over? A very RVS question about Nerjin's roleplay. Did you see what I was voting Varee over? About not even trying to vote for vote's sake. Which is pretty much admitting that I was voting him to have my vote in use.
So why didn't I vote 4mask instead? Because unlike Varee, I actually knew that someone else had already voted him. I had no idea that Varee was already being voted by Imp, for the same reasons that I forget who I'm voting for.
My vote for Shakerag is after a lengthy discussion over WIFOM, more than a bit emotional, and yes, while it may be a form of OMGUS, I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.
flabortI don't see how you don't see it.Yeah, I tend to think I've voted at the start when I haven't, and tend to forget who I've voted for. Which is why I pay close attention to when vote-counts are posted, usually.Ooh, so if there's an error in the vote counts, you usually won't be able to help catch it. Do you track votes on yourself with more attention than you track how you use your own vote?My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.I'm confused by your stance on your 'case' on Cheeetar. I'll explain my thinking, and ask you to discuss where yours differs from mine, please. Because I can't get my head to the conclusion that you say you do - that you had a case, and now you don't.
Someone is Scum or they are not (conversions aside). They are Scum or not regardless of what they misinterpret and no matter if they are dense or clever. How can you 'have a case' that someone is Scummy because of what they say, but later you say 'I don't have a case' because they learn something new or change their mind? Scum don't stop being Scum because they change their mind.
He changed his mind, after being corrected.
My case was that he wouldn't change his mind.
Therefor, he broke my case.
Therefor, I have none.
I still suspect him on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").
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You as in the whole group of people, I can't keep track of who guessed what (without my sheet, which I've been reworking and still isn't functional).Nope, not that potato. Though you're getting closer. I did grab my role from a wiki.I'm getting closer? That was my first and only offering. You had to make repeated posts about your creepiness and potatoness to even get me to spend the single minute it took to find that. I'm not that interested in why you are a potato or creepy. But you sure are, it's been a major theme in your posts from game start. I do appreciate that -you- have been adding more scumhunting and follow up to your RP posts though. I'm as willing to see you RP as you choose as I am to follow Nerjin's and everyone elses - but if I can't spot the strategies and your efforts towards a wincon (or if it looks like the wrong wincon) I will be discussing that lack. That lack -had- existed, but you've greatly improved that.
I'm sad that you don't enjoy puntatos, but they are my own version of RP.
And thank you for the small vote of confidence.
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Aye. Ever play on Giant in the Playground Games? The vanilla townie is nicknamed "sheep". Because that's how the game is played there, the fastest player to get a bandwagon to form on someone wins. None of this question stuff or conversations, it's all jokes and rewritten song lyrics (Somebody rewrote Sexy and I Know It to fit me and my avatar once). I know what a Bandwagon is. And usually the second or third player(s) to vote the wagon'd player is scum.When I start seeing accusations that fit together, that make sense, I'll be out of the RVS phase. Because if no-one agrees on anything, then the town is still divided. Once members start to grow up (out of the ground) and agree with each other, we'll start seeing some progress. One small group working together will probably be scum, one large group working together is to the benefit of the town. With so few accusations that work together, I'm only seeing scattered signs of scum everywhere.In my (limited) experience, Town usually stays divided, because for the most part most of them don't have any idea who else is Town. Why would Scum want to visibly form a small group that works together and is composed only of Scum? I don't think I've ever seen that. Scum often spread out and stick their fingers into whatever they see fitting, and often different members work different directions to avoid any visible connections. There's nothing to stop one, or even all of the Scum from joining that larger group either, even if the target is a Scum member but especially if it isn't.
Ever heard of bandwagon?
I acknowledge that scum would not want to be seen working together, but they still wind up working together, and if you take the accusations coming from scum players, they will fit together and mesh; they will form a small group of accusations that work together even if the scum players are trying to target different players. There won't be any connections on the surface, but if you analyze who accuses who of what and lump those accusations together, you will probably find small celles of scum-accusations.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 04:35:47 pm
Also, you're being very defensive instead of scum hunting. Granted, you're being hunted yourself, but that doesn't mean that you should stop trying to find who'd scummy. If you're lynched anyways, your points against others could help in further hunting.
Pfp
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2014, 04:39:27 pm
Because not scum hunting, in at least some way, is definite anti-town behavior.
There is one way you could relieve my suspicion of you a bit as a response to this post, I'll let you figure that out by yourself.
This is to Flabort by the way. Sorry for double post.
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 05:21:07 pm
He opens to me with a question about being asked, pre-game, about Arsonist. Gets mad about Tiruin's formatting.
He says that the night game consists of just sending in an action or not; clearly someone who'd pretty lazy about their night game. Very little thought at all as to who to target, like they don't care; that's pretty scummy. He gets on Persus's case for getting on scripten's case (protective of scripten, or protecting persus from bandwagoning?).
He vanishes for over a hundred posts, he tries to correct me on the proper use of PFP (What does it matter what it stands for, it all means the same thing), accuses Imp of gaining advantage from being targeted, accuses Jack of rolefishing (Does Jack ever rolefish? I didn't think he'd be the type), and votes Persus.
When I get him to post a list of his impressions of players, it seems somewhat emotional. It looks like he isn't willing to put much work into looking like he's trying, and he covers it up with he was "the worst person" to ask. Oh, and he crabs about Tiruin, me, and 4mask.
When next he's seen, he makes a level headed answer to only one question, and unvotes Persus. Mysteriously.
It's only now when typing this that I see the coincidence that he had an angry post (List of player impressions), and I asked him about angry posts. This may be why his next action is to accuse me of trying to ask him how to drive a mis-lynch.
He then asks THE QUESTION. The one that cannot be answered correctly, the one with no right answer. This is HIS attempt to drive a mis-lynch. He also votes for me.
He somehow argues that my logic means nothing. What, does he expect scumbuddies to be helpful in thread? Obviously I'm asking him because I have no form of quicktopic, which is where I would have asked the question IF I had scumbuddies. He also claims he found a better place for his vote than Persus. But he only voted me and found that place to vote AFTER he unvoted persus.
That's not many posts yet. 97 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552290#msg5552290), 111 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552424#msg5552424), 236 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555451#msg5555451), 243 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555643#msg5555643), 298 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563674#msg5563674), 300 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563729#msg5563729), 302 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563815#msg5563815), 311 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564191#msg5564191), and that's it. 8 posts in total.
And he's looking very scum already to me.
So yeah, I'd say that I'm justified in voting him.
Also, since it was conversed about by scripten and TolyK, let's look at the votes on me.
First is 4mask, post 215 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554942#msg5554942); He removes his vote later.
Jack A T, post 276 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5560728#msg5560728): The start of the Wagon.
TolyK, post 296 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563668#msg5563668)
Shakerag, post 300 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563729#msg5563729); magic #3 spot. What did I say about scum being second or third on a wagon?
Cheetar, post pi (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564315#msg5564315).
For these reasons, Shakerag is scum.
Post by: Shakerag on August 11, 2014, 05:37:43 pm
I'll address the rest tomorrow.
Post by: notquitethere on August 11, 2014, 05:44:45 pm
Varee
I dont see anything "suspicious" as of yet. the miller debate is informative but dosent really tell much. Will just have to wait and see i guessI don't think we'll have the luxury of waiting and seeing. Of all the players that have yet to vote, you've posted the least. That's suspicious in the Book of NQT. Poor engagement and inability to press cases and form genuine suspicions is a genuine scum tell. You're cannier than you pretend to be, you should know this. Make a case.
Post by: Scripten on August 11, 2014, 05:56:30 pm
That said, TolyK, I wasn't only talking about your vote. You've been sheeping pretty hard these last two pages. Maybe it's just how fast and intense this game is feeling. Could you summarize your feelings on Flabort and those who are voting him alongside you?
Post by: Varee on August 11, 2014, 08:41:13 pm
Yeah yeah whatever. It seem like this place have a certain standard of how mafia should be play. I woild love for a no lynch day one. For all thoses who are on my trail , am aware how scummy you might make that but for all you can tell there is LITERALLY no information to base a decision on. If you want to call all the half lie and claim information then by all mean go ahead. Let me add something ro your list of "information" then.
So who look like they need power? Come come we got everything you want, you just say so and i can build it! So wgo want ti be empower who our lucky person. I say our devoted president seem to be a good guy so should we give him a gift? Or sjould ee help our poor miller who work hard to gain our trust. Just name it and all i can say is "We can build it !"
Post by: Nerjin on August 11, 2014, 09:08:54 pm
O.O okie my english bad,i bad person not speak english perfect.
That's perfectly fine. So long as you are American, we all accept you. If you were, on the other hand, to have communist leanings. THAT would be an issue. But onwards to what you said:
Quote from: The Same
I woild love for a no lynch day one. For all thoses who are on my trail , am aware how scummy you might make that but for all you can tell there is LITERALLY no information to base a decision on. If you want to call all the half lie and claim information then by all mean go ahead. Let me add something ro your list of "information" then.
No. A no lynch on day one does NOTHING but help the communists. The Day 1 lynch shows us who thought who was scum. Who had a weak case AND it verifies someone's role, or more importantly, their alignment. A no lynch on the other hand shows us... That the communists kill. The lynch gives so much more information. A no-lynch shoud, in my humble opinion, be used only if it is a Mislynch and lose situation. A lylo is prefereable to a MYLO. In this one man's honest opinion.
Quote from: The Same
So who look like they need power?
Oh, I'm sorry. But what?
Quote from: The Same
Come come we got everything you want, you just say so and i can build it!
What are you talking about? Are you roleclaiming?
Quote from: The Same
So wgo want ti be empower who our lucky person. I say our devoted president seem to be a good guy so should we give him a gift? Or sjould ee help our poor miller who work hard to gain our trust. Just name it and all i can say is "We can build it !"
Are you Bob the Builder perhaps? No, obviously you have a kingmaker role. Which is strange all things considered. I don't care who you give it to. I am already the President. I need no more power than that. However, if the people were willing to grant me emergency power I would not decline. But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.
My secondary pick for Communist sympathizer would probably be Flabort. Mainly due to rather weak case against Shakerag. I am, I must say, using a Day Two perspective on this however. As I do not plan on moving my vote, until someone does something incredibly Communist seeming.
I'm afraid, Dear America, that this all for now. Now now. Don't cry. Your President will always be watching you. Making sure you have the utmost that America has to offer. Farewell, and good night sweet, sweet, America.
Post by: Varee on August 11, 2014, 09:57:26 pm
Thank you for your insight our ever caring president. You have
Post by: flabort on August 11, 2014, 11:20:18 pm
Hard choice, but I'd have to say... agh, can't decide between yourself (Nerjin), 4mask, or...
Actually, it's not that hard of a decision once I've reminded myself of Cheeetar's existence. The guy is rubbing one of my
Shakerag remains my top suspect.
Post by: Tiruin on August 11, 2014, 11:40:47 pm
All the pooosts.
Will post soon!
Post by: Silthuri on August 12, 2014, 12:35:25 am
First the answering of questions.
Varee:
so whoever feel like they have time to give opinion: What do you think is lying too much. Is saying your internet broke down to avoid answering question?
That's abuse of trust. If you say you're having a bad time in RL, we're all inclined to believe that you're legitimately having problems. It allows those having a few issues to remain in the game and not have others scream scum because they've been absent or their posts haven't had the content they should. Please avoid lying about these things.
Imp:
Silthuri: You mentioned you are bad with RVS questions, and that you're so far just skimming through posts to catch questions addressed to you, though you did mention you'd reread Sunday.
How will you know when we leave the RVS stage, what marks that change to you?
RVS always ends when people find solid evidence to latch on to. The atmosphere usually becomes more serious.
Flabort:
Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
Nerjin:
Unvote.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.I will answer this tomorrow morning, along with posting my reads. I've got most my notes written down on paper but have run out of energy tonight to type them. 300 posts is a lot to sort through...
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 07:14:22 am
Nerjin, are there any players you've seen as acting suspicious apart from 4maskwolf? Any possible communist sympathisers?
Nerjin, was your vice president a cake?
Post by: notquitethere on August 12, 2014, 09:00:56 am
Flabort is in line for the lynch. A cursory glance at the lurker tracker shows he's the second highest poster of the day and has voted a whole raft of different suspects. On the broad-brush level, perfectly reasonable Day 1 play. Here are three better lynch candidates than Flabort:
Varee - very few amount of posts, no suspicions
Toaster - even fewer posts, never voted
Silthuri - only three posts, not currently voting.
If you don't press cases, you can't lynch scum. Flabort is not the scummiest player, we should be voting for a likelier candidate.
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 09:18:06 am
Flabort:Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
"If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week."
Why have you made a unique exception in this case?
Nerjin:
Remember this?
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
NQT did not respond to your comments or answer your question. You didn't follow up. Why not?
notquitethere:
Why didn't you react to Nerjin's concerns, quoted in my question to him in this post?
A cursory glance at the lurker trackerBoth lurker trackers I know of (think, ZU) are throwing errors. Would you offer link to a functional tracker?
Spoiler: My reads: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 09:27:02 am
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.
4maskwolf, because of how I feel when I interact with him/watch him interact. As explained in 'my reads', previous post above.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 09:59:11 am
Silthuri:Because it's me rolefishing, and I've made it clear in previous games that that's part of what I do.Flabort:Silthuri How do you plan to use your role to it's full potential? How do you plan on using the day game to your best advantage?I don't really know. My powers are things unlike I've ever experienced before. I'll use the day game to hone in on the scum. If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week.
"If anyone else were rolfishing so obviously, I'd vote them into next week."
Why have you made a unique exception in this case?
I still occasionally get in trouble for it, but I've been doing it so consistently that it seems Silthuri has given up arguing with me over whether it helps find scum or not (It does).
Although in this case, I wasn't really looking for her role, but what she intends to do with it; use it aggressively/wildly, or hold back and look for appropriate targets.
Quote
Silthuri: Only 3 posts so far.This is interesting to note, though. I think we should work to encourage them to talk more.
IronyOwl: Low post count; 3 posts so far.
IronyOwl Do you have a plan to get the scum? I've seen good ideas for mass-claiming plans from you before, and non-claiming plans. Have you had a flash of genius?
Silthuri Looking back on the discussion about Tiruin and Miller, what do you think of the way Cheeetar was behaving? Do you think his behavior has changed since? Is Shakerag's behavior any different before and after he latched onto me as a target?
Imp Do you think it's possible that some player's behaviors could be explained by them having a day-use power? If so, which players?
Post by: TolyK on August 12, 2014, 10:10:48 am
That said, TolyK, I wasn't only talking about your vote. You've been sheeping pretty hard these last two pages. Maybe it's just how fast and intense this game is feeling. Could you summarize your feelings on Flabort and those who are voting him alongside you?The main problem is indeed the speed of the game - I just can't keep up with all the players' posts, and concentrating on things that tickle my scummeter.
Most of my case on Flabort:
This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
PPE: Also, rolefishing as a playstyle is something that you should try to learn not to do, flabort. If you keep saying "I rolefish and can't do anything about it" you can quite well turn out to be a policy lynch.
4mask (who later unvoted) is the person who is also setting off alarm bells with strange content. He did so in the beginning of the game, saying he was "not really wanting to play the game" and the like.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 11:00:04 am
Post by: TolyK on August 12, 2014, 11:05:30 am
I suddenly feel that I might have missed a LOT.
Or Varee is drunk, either way.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 11:07:29 am
Post by: notquitethere on August 12, 2014, 11:15:32 am
I'm not used to spotting my name in spoiler tags and I simply missed Nerjin's response. Thanks for bringing it to my attention: in a game with so many people, it's easy to miss things.
The Zombie Tracker (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~azhou/projects/LT/) is fixed: make sure you check the box to clear the database when you use it.
Nerjin
Mr. NQT, I have to say I'm disappointed. You are reaching far beyond what a normal, innocent, man would ever dare to. What, exactly, in this post claimed her as Third Party?She openly mentioned having 3rd party roles before. It's quite common for 3rd parties to indirectly out themselves through their preoccupations.
Varee, what are the effects of said house?
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 11:19:30 am
am not drunk D:< I just really need to build someone a new house tonight. :PI'd like to know more about this house. Is it a power boost? A lasting-doctor effect? A you-cannot-be-targeted-but-neither-can-you-target-anyone-or-post-for-a-round effect?
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 11:22:06 am
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 11:26:49 am
@Cheetar
Got a few unanswered questions, Nerjin.
I cannot remember everything. Thank, however, for bringing these to my attention. Let us answer them.
Nerjin, are there any players you've seen as acting suspicious apart from 4maskwolf? Any possible communist sympathisers?
Currently? Flabort. For reasons I already explained. Also, I find that NQT is acting strangely. He slipped away from my mind for a while but now that he's back in my mind I find his recent comments unnerving. But we'll talk more about that later.
Nerjin, was your vice president a cake?
Vice President V. Nilla Frosting will be missed. However, my role did not say specifically that he was my Vice President. I took that an ran with it for purposes of making these chats a little more entertaining.
@Imp
Nerjin:
Remember this?
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
NQT did not respond to your comments or answer your question. You didn't follow up. Why not?
For two simple reasons. The first, and most shameful, is that I simply forgot. That leads to the second though. He stopped doing it. It was suspicious, yes, but he stopped so I chalked it up to a bad day or some other such thing. As it stands I view what he did as more of a Null-Leanscum than a Scum movement.
@NotQuiteThere
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
True, he is engaged. However, he is engaged with statements such as:
This is why I'm fascinated and frustrated with the Bay12 standard of asking questions instead of shooting blindly from the hip. It does make the game more balanced, but it's difficult to actually be effective. Even harder to blend in and not be noticed, too.
Because it's me rolefishing, and I've made it clear in previous games that that's part of what I do.
He gets on Persus's case for getting on scripten's case (protective of scripten, or protecting persus from bandwagoning?).
Wherein he is getting on Shakerag's case for getting on Persus' Case for getting on Scripten's case.
Plus in several other posts [including the one just now mentioned] he relies very heavily on accusations that are missing steps:
He says that the night game consists of just sending in an action or not; clearly someone who'd pretty lazy about their night game. Very little thought at all as to who to target, like they don't care; that's pretty scummy.
Shakerag does not view the night game as particularly strong or weak. [Logic is missing]. Therefore Shake is lazy about their night game. [Reasons that Scum are lazy about their night game]. Therefore Shake is scummy.
I would like to point out that every scumchat I've read has had rather large discussion on who to use their ability on. I have NEVER seen scum kill at random. No. Scum have strong night play. Yes, Flabort's accusations sound scary. But they have no substance.
Lastly, he also, early on, relied overly much on saying very little. The posts I read had a significant amount of talk of camping.
However, as you mentioned, he does seem interested in the game. Thus, he is my secondary pick though barely.
What I find interesting is that you seem to be saying that simply being active is enough to make anyone not scum. I know your little tendency to think that the highest posting person isn't scum but... Surely you see that quality should also be taken into account.
That’s all for now America and remember: The cost of Liberty, is constant vigilance.
Post by: Toaster on August 12, 2014, 11:30:31 am
I don't see how you don't see it.
He changed his mind, after being corrected.
My case was that he wouldn't change his mind.
Therefor, he broke my case.
Therefor, I have none.
I still suspect him on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").
If someone does something because you prod them into doing it, it doesn't change that they weren't doing it in the first place.
Scripten:
I keep wanting to vote Varee, but I'm remembering just how badly the town hurt in the CYOM that's going on now. A Varee lynch seems easy, but is that what we want? Seems to me that both Varee and 4maskwolf may end up being a liability to the town even if they are aligned with it, just from the gameplay I've seen in the thread so far.
Ongoing games are ongoing, but in any case you should focus on the current game. Meta observations are only worth so much.
NQT:
Toaster - even fewer posts, never voted
I'm too cool for random voting.
In all seriousness, lunch next, then rereading until I find some scum. Gut's telling me to reread Flabort first, for the record.
Varee: Since you're claiming and all, is this a one-shot power upgrade or something? Shouldn't you be wary of redirection for something like that?
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 11:38:39 am
PPE: Interesting, Nerjin. Your analysis of me seems mostly to be a mildly strong case; wrong, but a good case.
However, early on, when I was "relying on saying very little", and where there was "much talk of camping", I have to point out that preparation for that camping was eating up most of my time. Even though in the end, I didn't go, I still had a lot of work to do helping everyone else get ready.
PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 11:42:35 am
It something i NEED to do every night. I do it liek on my spare time or something(I dont know how I find tiem to build a house every night but i guess it "WE can build it!" right?). Since this urge need to be fulfill I got two choice. one i just build it on the street and it finder keeper and i got no clue who is going to claim it. I might even claim it in the morning if noonelse does. Second is I sneak into someone backyard and pop a shack down. The house in the end of it self doesnt do a thing. It is more the owner of the house that give it the power. It might be an outhouse or garden storage shack but it can also be cultist hideout or personal torture chamber. I just got to build it ok?
And i start to understand why Nerjin to doing what he is doing :P
Also people need to clam down and take the clue. Sarcasm is dense in some of my posts.
Ninja-ed :P so you want to help me build house? who do you think need a new resident?
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 11:56:45 am
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?
I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
Post by: Shakerag on August 12, 2014, 12:02:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
NQT:
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?You're missing a vote on me if you want the full chainsaw experience, NQT. Regardless of how much he's voting and posting, if he looks scummy then he looks scummy. Isn't it the point for scum to be active and try to look like scumhunting town anyway? I'm not going to pull the "too-townie" card, but I will say that activity and voting does not necessarily make someone town.
Do you not see anything of note in flabort's replies? Are you content to just try and poke at the
Toaster - even fewer posts, never votedTechnically, didn't Toaster claim medical reasons?
Nerjin:
I think my second pick might be NQT. He's defending flabort on merits of activity, and not "Shakerag your case is bullshit and this is why".
Varee:
As others have mentioned, it's best not to advertise you have some kind of upgrade power openly. If the scumteam has a redirect, then they could end up with the benefit.
Post by: TolyK on August 12, 2014, 12:04:42 pm
Could also be a mason or cult thing.
We could have two mafias in this large of a setup.
Saying things that come to mind, by the way, turns out to help broaden thinking patterns.
Post by: Silthuri on August 12, 2014, 01:54:49 pm
Imp: Flabort has always liked to rolefish. It's kind of his thing. I'll take a bit more rolefishing from him than I will everyone else because I know this. That isn't to say I'll completely ignore it. If he keeps it up, I'll definitely get after him for it. It's almost like how I'll forgive unnecessary outbursts from Nerjin more than others because I know how he reacts when things really push his buttons.
flabort: I plan to use my role wisely and not squander it. I don't plan to be aggressive with my role, as I'm not a very aggressive player normally. Hopefully this gives you the answers you were going for.
Now: Reads
Note: if I don't say anything about someone, my read is null.
4mask: His first vote was on Scripten for the question regarding creepy roles. He never has been terribly... I don't want to say useful, but he's more laid back in the RVS stage and D1. I'm one to talk because I'm not very useful in RVS myself. I don't understand why people are getting after him for "wasting everyone's time" with his one unnecessarily long quote that I actually found amusing. Nerjin did react quite hostilely to this and I don't blame 4mask for reacting how he did. All in all, I have a fairly neutral read on 4mask.
Cheeetar: I find him the most scummy for all of his crap during the miller debate. All of this crap about the miller distracting town by claiming right off... No. Just no. That's going to prevent any inspection roles from wasting their action on someone who will definitely come up scum. And then all of this talk about a miller predicting when they've been inspected and claiming before the inspector claims... bull. Claiming miller after an inspector has claimed and outed you as scum is the worst possible course of action. No one will believe you and you will die. I think he's scum and trying to convince everyone that when/if he's inspected and comes up scum, people will believe him when he starts blurting miller.
flabort: Potato. It seems like everyone's attacking him for his scumbuddy statement unless I missed something. Nothing he's done has really stood out to me. Neutral.
Imp: I'm leaning town. She's fairly active, quick to question people, but has yet to use her vote.
Nerjin:Speaking in tongues of the president. I'm starting to wonder if he's Lincoln, with his repeated use of "Evil only triumphs when good men do nothing." (That was Lincoln, right?) Went off on 4mask, which was a bit much, but that doesn't really scream scum to me. Like I said, I know how Nerjin reacts to things that bug him. Neutral read.
NQT: Seemed overly nosy about Tirun's role, but I understand why he did it. His curiosity seems to have been sated and has moved on to other things. Neutral.
Scripten: Jumped on Tiruin for miller claim as well; claimed he has a very creepy role. Not sure what to think about this one. Neutral.
Tiruin: Claimed miller in her first post. She was then forced to defend herself from those saying it made her scummy. I believe that she was right in claiming before it became an issue and she was investigated. I'm willing to believe that she's actually a miller unless something happens to prove otherwise.
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 03:09:12 pm
Imp Do you think it's possible that some player's behaviors could be explained by them having a day-use power? If so, which players?
I haven't seen anything to rule out someone having a day-use power, that's hard to rule out. You asked about 'possible' and 'having a day-use power' - to that I'd say anyone could have a day-use power - but you linked having one to 'behaviors could be explained by them having it'. To that I'm going to say no. I don't see anyone acting as if their having a day-use power explained their behavior. I can't even imagine behavior that would be a tell-tale for having a day-use power, then again I don't recall ever seeing one used.
Is this a random question?
If you can imagine behavior that would be a tell-tale for having a day-use power, would you describe an example please?
I'd rather give more time for Scripten to examine TolyK if Scripten chooses to chase this further without this possibly clouding reactions, if Scripten was just being indirect about beginning to explore it, but day end nears and I don't know if work will allow me much time to post again before day is over. I wrote it yesterday, after reading the post I quote that I say blew my mind, and haven't changed it since.
« Reply #296 on: Today at 11:32:39 am »
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?« Reply #316 on: Today at 03:55:22 pm »
There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...
TolyK, your answer just blew my mind.
That I can see, you've voted once this entire game. 4.5 hours before being asked about your vote. Yours was the second vote on flabort, and there's 4 votes now.
I don't see a flabort wagon, though one may have begun; momentum can happen. notquitethere seems concerned about a possible flabort wagon too.
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
Totally legit question, I want to see the answers too of course. Just... 4 out of 17 votes. We're about a 24 hours from day end when NQT posted that, but still...
But what blows my mind about your answer TolyK, is you talk about 'As far as I remember, when I voted flabort' as if it was in the dim, misty past or something - it was 4.5 hours before you answered the question about it.
You say your vote on flabort is random (though you gave something of a reason with the vote), and you say you remember placing the vote while people were talking about millers - Millers have not been much of a discussion since Friday. Tiruin (claimed miller) has 0 votes now, and Cheeetar (proposed miller lynch best D1 choice at the time) has 0 votes now too. The current attempt to discuss millers seems to be mostly questions from people who ask why voters changed their votes without explaining.
I don't like how you answered Scripten's question about your vote, TolyK, and I'd like you to explain why you chose to answer with redirection as if your vote was some old random RVS thing from near the start of the thread, why you linked your vote to the Miller discussion that mostly stopped over a day before you voted, and why you didn't directly answer the question asked at all.
Silthuri:
Imp: has yet to use her vote.
I have voted. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563445#msg5563445)
I'm no webadict, but a few people have asked for a vote count/mentioned they were not good at tracking even their own votes/thought someone hadn't voted who had, so here's what the votecount looks like to me right now. This is based on webadict's previous votecount, then I visually went through the posts since, it -could- contain errors but does not to my knowledge.
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - Persus13, Nerjin,
Cheeetar - Silthuri,
flabort - Jack A T, TolyK, Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Jiokuy -
Nerjin - 4maskwolf,
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Scripten,
Varee - IronyOwl, Imp, notquitethere,
Not Voting - Jiokuy, Toaster, Varee, Tiruin,
Post by: Jack A T on August 12, 2014, 03:11:44 pm
Webadict: I think Jiokuy may need a replacement.
Flabort: Answer this.My case on Cheeetar was entirely based on his misinterpretation of Miller, and how dense he was being over the matter. Now that he's changed his mind, I don't have a case. I still suspect him with my gut, but have no case whatsoever to vote him over.So, if you suspect him, and have for some time, and felt you didn't have enough evidence, why weren't you trying to gather more evidence and improve your read? You stopped interacting with him in the middle of the miller mess.
He vanishes for over a hundred posts, he tries to correct me on the proper use of PFP (What does it matter what it stands for, it all means the same thing), accuses Imp of gaining advantage from being targeted, accuses Jack of rolefishing (Does Jack ever rolefish? I didn't think he'd be the type), and votes Persus.Wow. You're spinning Shakerag being away between posts for less than (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552424#msg5552424) (post #111: 4:52 PM Aug. 7) 24 hours (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5555451#msg5555451) (Post #236: 2:27 PM Aug. 8) to look as bad as it can, by saying he "vanishe[d]" and emphasizing the high activity of other players in the thread during that reasonable absence. Then you take a shot at him for daring to accuse me of rolefishing, ignoring the fact that said accusation was correct. It was highly limited rolefishing, and I see it as justified by Shakerag's history of submissions meant to screw everyone over and/or screw the game up, but it was rolefishing.
Is there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?
When next he's seenHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!
I still suspect him [Cheeetar] on a gut level, so yes, scum don't stop being scum, but I have NO WAY OF PROVING THAT HE IS (Also known as a "CASE").And? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote? Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?
TolyK: I find your contribution to the flabort wagon troubling. You voted for flabort (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563668#msg5563668) for his apparent effort to give away his role name. How is this scummy?
Later, you, when asked to explain your "shooting from the hip" targets (which did not include flabort), came out with this:
@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material....but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?
Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
Since that post, you've taken a few (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564339#msg5564339) short jabs at (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564477#msg5564477) flabort, but have never really brought together a case against him. You're sort of sitting back on the bandwagon.
Most of my case on Flabort:...And? What makes this scummy?This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?NQT (Flabort should read this too): He's definitely posting, yes. It is true that he is now engaged with the game, as any reasonable player under heavy fire would be. Up until my vote for him (at which point he had 19 posts), his contributions had been a first post set of RVS questions, a little bit of Cheeetar engagement (which he abandoned quickly), and a very short Jester accusation against 4mask. While flabort says he suspected Cheeetar even after the miller stuff, flabort had completely stopped interacting with Cheeetar after this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552992#msg5552992) (the sixth of flabort's posts). (Heck, even now, he does nothing to improve his Cheeetar read) Most of flabort's posts had consisted of him babbling about potatoes and camping, and his one vote at that point was one he didn't really care about. Low-engagement play, without even awareness of where his vote was, and his high post count was largely due to him flooding the thread with potatoes.
My vote was enough, at least, to get him to take some sort of action. Unfortunately, that action (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5560917#msg5560917) was to abandon voting for his suspect and return to RVS, complete with an RVS vote. And babble about potatoes. His later Varee vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563663#msg5563663) was a quick jump on a wagon (one already with Irony and Imp on it), largely using a chunk of Imp's reasons.
His current vote? This beautiful bit of panicking under fire. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564293#msg5564293) He's accusing Shakerag of trying to make him look scummy by asking the wrong questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564427#msg5564427). His detailed reasons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564604#msg5564604) given later are a post-by-post analysis in which he tries desperately to turn any gap between posts, among other things, into evidence of scumhood. As Nerjin correctly points out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566641#msg5566641), his case has significant gaps in it as well.
Flabort, for most of the game, was doing his best Scum SaintDraze imitation: flooding the thread with posts, but contributing little. Quantity far over quality. He sat back, rambling about potatoes and answering questions, but not scumhunting. He was so unengaged with the game that he lost track of where his vote was and avoided trying to investigate his main suspect. He has only become engaged with the game under fire, and his votes are rather poor.
But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.Nerjin: Please explain.
Right now, I would like hear EVERYONE'S number one suspect aside from the person you are voting and why. Just to see who is who in this situation.TolyK, for his weak participation in the Flabortwagon (see above). I do also find Silthuri's low activity off-putting (thanks, NQT, for reminding me of her), but not as much as I find TolyK's actions off-putting.
Silthuri: Do you think that Cheeetar, after losing in the miller debate, has a significant chance of success if he claims miller post-investigation?
Shakerag: You have stated that you suspect NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) for his behaviour with regard to flabort. What do you think a town NQT would do differently?
Post by: Silthuri on August 12, 2014, 03:19:43 pm
Imp: Sorry I missed that... it wasn't a big factor in my read on you regardless.
Jack: Cheeetar would have virtually no chance of success after his failings. I felt that that might have been part of the plan early on when he was trying to support it. But I think that's just getting into WIFOM.
PFP
Post by: Silthuri on August 12, 2014, 03:28:03 pm
I know my lack of participation has been an issue. Now that I'm fairly caught up, keeping up shouldn't be too terribly hard. Expect more activity from now on.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 03:29:31 pm
Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Silthuri (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 03:33:13 pm
But whatever you do, do NOT give it to Tiruin. I love her like a student. She is my heir so to speak. However, her loyalty to America itself is in question. A 'miller' as it is called should never be given that sort of power.Nerjin: Please explain.
The reason I said this was that Bob the Builder [or Varee] made it seem like his buildings would be beneficial to the recipient. Now as I said: I love Tiruin. She is my favorite student. However, her Miller claim may be false. It's unlikely, yes, given how she's handled it. BUT I would not wager against her actually being scum. It's more of a small doubt than a true conviction. However, I believe, in this case, we should be better safe than sorry.
That's all for now America. Stay safe.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 03:39:24 pm
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.
Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.
Quote
How dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
Quote
Is there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
Quote
And? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote? Why make babbling about potatoes and camping a higher-priority action than gaining information on your suspect?Because he's not my prime suspect. Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now? You're all tunnel visioning and WANT to believe I'm scum. Babbling about camping and forgetting about my vote because I had no time because of the stress of preparing for camping.
And now I'm stressed because of other IRL issued. I idolized that guy, OK? :'(
Quote
His current vote? This beautiful bit of panicking under fire.That's a fire? That's panicking? I was as cool as a cucumber for that post.
No, a fire is what you're setting now.
But I don't care. You're wasting your vote.
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 03:46:44 pm
Post by: Toaster on August 12, 2014, 03:59:16 pm
Flabort:
I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.
Can you show a few of those questions? Ideally with him voting over the answer?
PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
An example will help:
PlayerA: Hey PlayerB, why aren't you voting anyone?
PlayerB: *votes someone* Sure I am!
The buildup that got PlayerA's attention is still there.
Yeah, I want to help out. Help confirm whether you are town or not.
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?
I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
While I'm not opposed to beneficial actions being used on me, I fail to see how this confirms anyone of anything.
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Now this is a rather forward claim.
Shakerag:
Technically, didn't Toaster claim medical reasons?
Again, that excuse died Saturday. Any lack of posts after that, feel free to blame me for.
Anyway, Flabort I couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other. Need to do some more rereading, starting with NQT and TolyK.
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 04:03:02 pm
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
So you are claiming to be immune to lynching AND it seems like you might be indicating a cult of sorts. Could you discuss these claims in more detail?
Post by: Toaster on August 12, 2014, 04:05:16 pm
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 04:16:27 pm
Extend.Oh, yeah, those exist.
Extend.
Extend. A review on Flabort isn't turning up what I expected. That said...
Flabort:I also actually suspect him of building questions to which there is no right answer in order to cause a mislynch. I've accused Tiruin of that before, in previous games, and I feel very justified in voting Shakerag for it now.
Can you show a few of those questions? Ideally with him voting over the answer?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sorry I can't answer this question to the full degree that you seem to expect, but I'm not sure how best to answer it.
Quote
PPE2: Toaster, eh? OK, that's a weird answer. If you don't prod someone into doing something, then they haven't done it. So if you do prod them into doing something, then it's your fault that they did it, right? I don't quite understand how you came to your conclusion.
Also, yeah, I guess he should be wary of redirections, but so should anyone.
An example will help:
PlayerA: Hey PlayerB, why aren't you voting anyone?
PlayerB: *votes someone* Sure I am!
The buildup that got PlayerA's attention is still there.[/quot]
OK, I see. Just because someone prods you into doing something, doesn't mean you weren't doing something else.QuoteOK, then it's settled.Yeah, I want to help out. Help confirm whether you are town or not.
Oh, and FYI, don't build me specifically a house, it won't do anything.
Who do I think needs a new house?
I'm partial to saying Tiruin, but with the Miller claim, we can't know for sure if that's a good idea.
So perhaps Toaster would be an excellent candidate. Since nobody's confirmed anyways, we could go with the reputedly hardest person to confirm.
I believe that the way your power and mine might interact will confirm all three of us as one alignment or the other; you, me, our target.
That all depends on what toaster says about that plan, though. If he rejects it, due to not trusting either of us or his auto possibly interacting with either power, we can target someone else.
While I'm not opposed to beneficial actions being used on me, I fail to see how this confirms anyone of anything.
Also, OK, I guess it doesn't confirm anything, but it should reveal more information about all three parties.QuoteWhat does it tell you? What is your interpretation of this?Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
Now this is a rather forward claim.
I'm pretty sure I breadcrumbed this claim earlier? I forget.QuoteAnyway, Flabort I couldn't find anything conclusive one way or the other. Need to do some more rereading, starting with NQT and TolyK.You do that. I'll just be mourning a great mind. :(Hello, Flabort, this is your president, Nerjin, addressing you directly.I was not indicating a cult. I was indicating that I cannot die. And yeah, I'm pretty immune to lynching; not that specific wording, but the effect is the same.Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
So you are claiming to be immune to lynching AND it seems like you might be indicating a cult of sorts. Could you discuss these claims in more detail?
"And that plant creates more potatoes" is just an indication of my flavor. I have so many potatoes, I have no idea what to do with them all. It just refers to if you try to kill me, I'll just come back.Oh yeah, Nerjin. Meant to say I at first thought he was posting as he was to hide him not doing anything, then I saw the content. Then it was I thought he was posting that way to make it just hard to read his posts, but I haven't seen any malicious activity from him.Hidden messages? There might be some clue in his sign-offs.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 04:18:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jack A T on August 12, 2014, 04:25:55 pm
Fine, Jack, if you're right about me being scum, then what does that say about Cheeetar?flabort: I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Please clarify.
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.
Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.You were able to be active enough to throw a bunch of posts around and answer questions, but not enough to do much scumhunting after your short Cheeetar engagement?
...what is this? There's a difference between a sub-24 hour absence or weekend absence (which are quite common and expected) and an extended absence (which is lurking), and there's a difference between posting content and not posting content. This bit from you is, to be frank, nonsense.QuoteHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
...You just said the gaps were an issue. You just argued that an effort to excuse those absences was wrong (I think). In addition, the weekend gap and the rolefishing accusation you specifically emphasized with italics. Why, if not to attack Shakerag?QuoteIs there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
So? I understand that Cheeetar is no longer your prime suspect. Merely your second-strongest suspect. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you have strategic reasons for focusing just on your prime suspect and avoiding your second-strongest suspect. But again, why, during the extended period after you completely abandoned Cheeetar but before I voted you, did you not try to gain more information on him? Why so completely abandon him?QuoteAnd? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?Because he's not my prime suspect.
Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now?Do not use me or your other attackers as an excuse not to improve your read or get evidence. Why do you care so much about how your attackers would view efforts to scumhunt? Why are you letting that interfere with your scumhunting?
Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.
One last thing: any response to Shakerag's recent post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) about you? (I can see how you might have missed it, with it being the last post of a 25 or 50 post page).
Not changing my vote: quite late in the day and I'm not doing last-minute vote screwy stuff.
Spoiler: Off topic (click to show/hide)
Seriously, people, we could really use an extension.
Post by: Persus13 on August 12, 2014, 04:32:52 pm
If the extend fails to go through. Flabort, you are not going to tie up the vote and cause a No Lynch. If you are unlynchable as you claim, you'd survive it.
Post by: Shakerag on August 12, 2014, 04:48:04 pm
Jack A T:
Shakerag: You have stated that you suspect NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) for his behaviour with regard to flabort. What do you think a town NQT would do differently?I guess I have a mental image of NQT being a bit more analytical than just saying we shouldn't vote a player because he's really active. It just feels a bit off that he's not giving something a bit more concrete as to why we should let flabort off the hook. Or some kind of game-by-game analysis of flabort's playing style or something.
flabort:
OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.How do you even go from one person having an excusable absence to absences don't matter? I can't even begin to follow your reasoning for that, let alone the rest of the paragraph.
Quote
However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Oh well, gee, I guess we'll just not vote flabort for the rest of the game because he claimed unlynchable/a resurrect. You realize that these kinds of claims never end well, right?
Silthuri:
Can you point out specific things to me that said to you "Cheeetar is full of shit and is scum" as opposed to "Cheeetar is mistaken about things related to millers and night actions"? Because I'm not seeing it myself.
Post by: TolyK on August 12, 2014, 04:48:23 pm
cannot post good content at this time.
Post by: Tiruin on August 12, 2014, 04:49:47 pm
x_x is me.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 05:07:39 pm
Extend. Larger post hopefully later today.Part of the reason I didn't vote varee. Who I don't suspect in the slightest anyways.
If the extend fails to go through. Flabort, you are not going to tie up the vote and cause a No Lynch. If you are unlynchable as you claim, you'd survive it.
If you think I'm scum, if I flip scum, then you'll have to go back and reevaluate all my interactions.Fine, Jack, if you're right about me being scum, then what does that say about Cheeetar?flabort: I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Please clarify.
First I try to bus him and then I try to distance myself is how I would see it from your flawed perspective.
It would be easy to assume, I assume, from your perspective that what I did with Cheeetar was a scum strategy.
Which is why if I ever die without being revived, whether I'm town or scum, I want you to lynch Cheeetar; right after Shakerag if I'm town. However, that will likely never happen unless there's a hard counter to my powers, so I don't think it will ever be an issue.
Quote
I was sneaking away from the IRL stress and activity to read and post. Most of the time my absence was noticed before I could do any scumhunting or thinking.Again, early game lack of participation was out of my hands. I was distracted by the whole camping issue, I had no time to knuckle down and focus. You'll also notice my activity was down from earlier in the CYOM of NQT's during this period, I think. I was still active, but I was talking more about queued actions and stuff.You were able to be active enough to throw a bunch of posts around and answer questions, but not enough to do much scumhunting after your short Cheeetar engagement?
Quote
If that's what you think this is, then that's what it is to you. I still believe his absences were long enough to matter....what is this? There's a difference between a sub-24 hour absence or weekend absence (which are quite common and expected) and an extended absence (which is lurking), and there's a difference between posting content and not posting content. This bit from you is, to be frank, nonsense.QuoteHow dare Shakerag not be a weekend player!?!OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.
Quote
Yeah, the absences were a note of interest; they indicated that he was far less involved than most of the other players....You just said the gaps were an issue. You just argued that an effort to excuse those absences was wrong (I think). In addition, the weekend gap and the rolefishing accusation you specifically emphasized with italics. Why, if not to attack Shakerag?QuoteIs there a reason you're spinning a non-issue to look as bad as possible and omitting an inconvenient fact that would interfere with your case?Does everything in that post have to be an issue? I was going over everything he's done. Not everything he's done is bad. But he has done bad things, and is pinging "scum" like crazy to me.
But you had quoted several other "issues" with that question, and you could have easily been talking about any or all of those. I was wondering why you thought I was spinning those as issues.
Now that I know only those two issues matter to you, I can answer better.
Yes, the gaps are an issue. And I can't see you, as a player, rolefishing in any way near approaching the way I do; subtle or otherwise. So I'm quite surprised at both of you for that not, and it was a very interesting point to note.
Quote
Will "I forgot about it" work? Obviously I remember now, and it's an issue for you, but I forgot completely during that period. As stated before, the stress of IRL getting ready for camping was giving me little time, including time to think. So I forgot.So? I understand that Cheeetar is no longer your prime suspect. Merely your second-strongest suspect. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you have strategic reasons for focusing just on your prime suspect and avoiding your second-strongest suspect. But again, why, during the extended period after you completely abandoned Cheeetar but before I voted you, did you not try to gain more information on him? Why so completely abandon him?QuoteAnd? Again, why haven't you been trying to improve your read/get evidence? Why go beyond abandoning a flawed-looking case and outright abandon your suspect? Why leave him so completely that you even forgot about your vote?Because he's not my prime suspect.
Quote
Why is this specific case needling at you so much? At this point I'm just not asking him questions because it's provoking you, and I'm starting to suspect a connection between him and you.Because what can I do to improve my read or get evidence without being accused of something else now?Do not use me or your other attackers as an excuse not to improve your read or get evidence. Why do you care so much about how your attackers would view efforts to scumhunt? Why are you letting that interfere with your scumhunting?
So, anyways, done with that, I guess now I'll start asking him questions too, then. Bottom of this post. If it's not there, yell at me.
Quote
Looks like you noticed the answer and just didn't remove the question here.Oh, and I even see an opportunity to tie the vote and cause a no-lynch. I won't do that, though, because I value town's right to a flip. However, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Alright, I understand the non-flipping, reviving stuff, but what do you mean by the "that plant creates more potatoes" part?PPE: Alright.
Quote
One last thing: any response to Shakerag's recent post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566744#msg5566744) about you? (I can see how you might have missed it, with it being the last post of a 25 or 50 post page).Sure. "Yes, I do say that vote analysis has a use even here on bay 12. No, I don't believe you were busy with 'the job thing' over the weekend."
Quote
Not changing my vote: quite late in the day and I'm not doing last-minute vote screwy stuff.Fine.
Quote
Yes. I've been bouncing between anger and grief and denial like a pinball for the last few minutes. Do you know just how many movies with him in them I've watched? Good movies? Movies where I didn't even recognize him for the first half hour or longer because he's that good?Spoiler: Off topic (click to show/hide)
Now who's the next best comedian? Will Ferrel? Yuk. Disgusting.
I would rather have Robin. Even if he does a horrible job.
Shakerag I'm going to get lynched today. I will revive. What is your emotional reaction to this? Also, who else do you suspect of being scum?
Cheeetar What is the best way for you to win? Specifically you. Doesn't matter what your alignment is, what is the best thing that could happen right now, or later in days 2 or three, that would lead to you winning? How do you plan on bringing that about?
PPE:
flabort:My reasoning is that if I have to excuse one absence, then I have to excuse others, at which point I have to excuse them all, at which point they don't matter any more. Which as the logic then follows, means that Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter because no absence matters because I've excused them all.OK, so shakerag's absences are excusable. But by that logic, no-body being absent matters. Jiokuy being absent doesn't matter. And if low activity doesn't matter, high activity doesn't matter. And by that logic, my low activity followed by high activity doesn't matter. I still get to think that shakerag's active lurking if you think that that matters.How do you even go from one person having an excusable absence to absences don't matter? I can't even begin to follow your reasoning for that, let alone the rest of the paragraph.QuoteHowever, you won't get one if you continue to vote me anyways, so *shrug* why not pursue some target that can die? You can't kill a potato. Grind it up? It just grows from a piece of an eye. And that plant creates more potatoes. I'm afraid there's no point to voting me.Oh well, gee, I guess we'll just not vote flabort for the rest of the game because he claimed unlynchable/a resurrect. You realize that these kinds of claims never end well, right?
And if absence doesn't matter, then the lack of absence, or high activity, doesn't matter. Which means that neither states of activity that Jack was saying I had matters. Which meant that Jack's point is invalid. So if he still considered that point valid, then absence and activity do matter, which would mean that the idea that I had to excuse all absence was incorrect, which meant that the idea that I had to excuse YOUR absence was incorrect.
Yeah, I know that claiming unlynchable never ends well when it's true. And claiming a revive does turn out OK sometimes; I am aware that it's not often.
However, what I said was that my revival power makes me effectively unlynchable. Different thing. Doesn't mean your point is wrong. But it means you need a workaround to kill me. So go ahead and vote me, you'll see I'm right, but I am warning you that you're wasting the vote. It will end well for me, that I claimed. Even if you do try to lynch me once or twice.
It would, however, work out better for the town if you lynched someone who was able to die less then infinite times. Because you'd get a roleflip. You don't want the only flip to be scum's nightkill, right?
Ah, well, as Jack said, it's too late for vote screwyness.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 06:24:56 pm
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 06:55:14 pm
Where it stops...
Who knows?
Suddenly, flabort grabs his chest and mimics an epic death scene. Everyone is mildly surprised. The frothing mouth was a good touch, someone added.
But then flabort jumps back up. "Just kidding!" he spits out, wiping the foam away.
Webadict's mom hangs up the phone before she managed to finish dialing emergency services.
flabort has been killed!
flabort has come back to life!
Votes reset!
Day extended!
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar -
flabort -
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Jiokuy -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Jiokuy, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Nerjin, flabort, Cheeetar, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Jiokuy has not responded to PMs. I will be replacing him with Mysteriousbluepuppet soon.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 07:10:18 pm
Something odd just happened. If I died, why isn't it night?
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 07:12:24 pm
I sincerely suggest you start explaining.
Sincerely,
Your President
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 07:21:32 pm
My auto power resurrects me. Several times. That's it!
It said nothing about the votes, nights, or anything of that sort!
My one shot does nothing of the sort either, and my night action can't be used during the day!
My mind is boggling at what happened. I don't understand.
Cheetar, Toaster, Varee, IronyOwl: Did one of you do this?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 12, 2014, 07:23:46 pm
What just happened there...
Also, Flabort, you can revive several times?
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something Wuba would give a townie.
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 07:26:35 pm
This is, indeed, a dark day for America.
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 07:46:07 pm
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.
Fine. 4mask, I am willing to full claim if it puts your mind at ease. Yes, I can revive several times. The power is called Spudradic Reproduction.
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 07:54:37 pm
I call shenanigans!
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.
Explain to me why exactly scum, or otherwise, would day kill you? Especially, if you had all the votes on you? No. I think what happened is you used a one shot ability that allowed you to clear the board and make it look like a death/revive.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:02:14 pm
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 08:06:51 pm
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 08:08:13 pm
No, my one-shot is Vote-ato, and I'll prove that it's not clearing the board by simultaneously voting Cheeetar and Shakerag.I call shenanigans!
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.
Explain to me why exactly scum, or otherwise, would day kill you? Especially, if you had all the votes on you? No. I think what happened is you used a one shot ability that allowed you to clear the board and make it look like a death/revive.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:10:58 pm
You have a problem?
Can we fix it?
Yes we can!
How we fix it?
...........
You want a house?
Can we build it?
Yes we can!
(well if no one want a house I will sleep walk and but it in the middle of nowhere and it will be first come first serve.)
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 08:13:39 pm
Potato potatoSeriously. Target Toaster. He says he isn't opposed to being buffed.
You have a problem?
Can we fix it?
Yes we can!
How we fix it?
...........
You want a house?
Can we build it?
Yes we can!
(well if no one want a house I will sleep walk and but it in the middle of nowhere and it will be first come first serve.)
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 08:17:00 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 08:17:28 pm
Re: 'what would be best for you to win' from Flabort- I think it'd be by lynching you, at the moment. I'm not convinced somebody tried to day kill you (at the same time as the day was supposed to end, while the votes were against you? Not likely.) nor am I convinced that you supposedly have infinite resurrects. Far more likely you have just the one party trick.
And you're a double voter, and using it to spread your OMGUS around it seems. I don't think just the one double vote is a convincing one shot, it seems a bit... Underpowered.
There is one good thing here I think- I don't think Flabort intended for the day to continue, and a day extension is a pretty big boon for the town in the event of a lynch not occurring- we can still try to get a flip.
Varee, why are you so interested in somebody volunteering for being targeted by your night action?
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:20:52 pm
Varee, why are you so interested in somebody volunteering for being targeted by your night action?Cuase I got to build it. Better find some willing target that will tell what the hell the house really do (cuase i dont even know) than building it is random place and still got no clue o who or what it do(I guess i sleepwalk to build house or something)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 08:24:53 pm
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:30:46 pm
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 08:33:15 pm
I am town. I am SCP-1689, the bag of infinite potatoes.
I have Spudradic Reproduction, an auto that allows me to revive on being lynched or killed. Several times; the clause being more than one death in a certain time period overrules this. So yeah, lynching me now, while it's still day 1, I'm dead. Happy?
I have Latvian Dream (I barely understand where this power is coming from after a google search). Using it makes me immune to all incoming powers, but I need to select a target. Any powers targeting this target (was going to be Toaster) also target me. Also, the target's own powers are unblockable, unredirectable, unrandomizable, giving the target a power buff for that night.
And I just used my one-shot to vote my top two scum picks. I have a number of votes equal to the number of potatoes I have (which is infinite), I may only target two people with it; I'm not sure if this means there are now infinite votes on both my two picks, or if it just means I can vote two people once.
My plan with Varee was going to be target whoever he targets, so that he would build two houses, and I'd get the power boost he was mentioning; if he target's me, I get nothing.
I said my role was among the scariest things on the internet, because seriously have you read the SCP foundation website? I said I was safe earlier, because that's my item class. I'm considered "safe" by the foundation (unless I'm Euclid, I honestly forget). The cafeteria uses me on a regular basis, for Pete's sake, I'm pretty sure that mean's I'm safe to use. Just don't go exploring inside me.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 08:35:35 pm
Also full power claim I am going to need a bit to process this.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 08:39:20 pm
And uh, if Flabort did just kill me... best of luck guys?
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:42:00 pm
Well I guess it a Yes WE can situation.
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 08:49:29 pm
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort,
flabort - Nerjin, Cheeetar,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: Varee on August 12, 2014, 08:53:26 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 08:54:54 pm
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 08:58:49 pm
flabort: Look liek your infinite vote is not working..... Are you lying or something?I forgot that I needed to PM Wuba about it. I got a reminder about it, it should work now.
Revotecount
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 08:59:46 pm
Cheetar, shakerag
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 09:01:22 pm
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort,
flabort - Nerjin, Cheeetar,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: Tiruin on August 12, 2014, 09:03:06 pm
Alright. Full claim time, to save town from a grave mistake.For Reference (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1689) :P
I am town. I am SCP-1689, the bag of infinite potatoes.
Also PFP. As in, seriously tied up with school stuffs here x-x
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 09:03:46 pm
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 09:07:21 pm
I think the extension should have happened, if it could have.
Cheeetar was the 10th voter for an extend. We just need a majority, that's 9. I think the extension did happen.
No votecount was provided before flabort was killed.
Previous wubba BYOR games start of night have shown fluff followed by votecount followed by result of vote. Start of games have shown fluff followed by kills/revives/whatever followed by the votecount.
The page set up resembles a day start, not a day end (or an extend).
We're still listed as on day 1. I think the vote cancellation happened before flabort was killed, which is why votes were not shown before his death. We were not shown -why- he was killed. More specifically, we were not shown that he was lynched.
And we usually are, if that's what killed them.
From wubba's last BYOR, a lynch death:
TolyK has been lynched!
A kill (happened to be a nightkill) target:
Hapah has been killed!
I believe flabort was killed, not lynched. I do not know how, if it is self-targeted or other. But that was not a lynch; he would have been called 'lynched' not 'killed' if he had been lynched. I believe the day would have ended had we not had enough extension votes. I can not tell if the vote clearing is directly connected to the kill but I suspect it is, Occam's Razor.
Flabort.
For one: Why do you believe Varee's 'house' to be a beneficial thing? You seem to completely believe 1) that this 'housebuilding' exists. 2) That it is beneficial to recieve it.
For two: You said you planned to target Toaster. Was that 'if' you did not instead target Varee's target? Or did you say that because you offered Toaster as a Varee target, because Toaster had said he would not mind?
For three: You seem to completely disregard that you have an additional way to gain Varee's 'house', which would be the normal way; to be targeted by Varee for building it but to 'not' target Varee back; in fact don't use your 'Latvian Dream' power at all that night. Why do you appear to not even consider this option even slightly?
For four: If you target Varee as Varee targets you, this makes -you- immune to incoming powers, however it would make Varee's power unblockable. Is immunity a form of block? Have you already asked Webadict about an outcome to this?
For five: Why did you pick Toaster to target?
For six:
Cheetar, Toaster, Varee, IronyOwl: Did one of you do this?
Why did you specifically ask those people instead of asking everyone?
You may have already explained this, I am work pressured and must go back to my work extremely soon and cannot further read/reread. But please explain why Cheeetar got your vote here and now. You had not even been voting for him before the vote reset, you'd been voting for Shakerag. How did Cheeetar jump to the top of your list?
For Six: Wait a sec. You just got 'killed', sort of at least. The second person you ask if they did it, is Toaster. And you're recommending Toaster gets Varee's 'house', and you just explained that you intended to target Toaster with your huge buff.
THis seems senseless.
Explain your thinking, please. Turn this into sense.
Everyone:
I suspect that Varee cannot actually 'give' someone a 'house' without consent. I view Varee's behavior with grave suspicion and am concerned that there's some unusual interconnection between Varee and Flabort. I suggest that noone give Varee consent. Varee started acting like this when he started to gain votes. I believe this act of Varee's is not a friendly act, and that Varee -wants- consent way to much, and he started determinedly seeking it it only under pressure. If Varee could just pick anyone to target for the house, I believe he would, if he doesn't in fact want to just randomly 'give' it. He could select -anyone-, including anyone he may like or trust (he said he had no suspicions); instead he wants consent, and that started only under pressure. Be wary.
Post by: Imp on August 12, 2014, 09:17:15 pm
Alright. Full claim time,
I just used my one-shot to vote my top two scum picks. I have a number of votes equal to the number of potatoes I have (which is infinite), I may only target two people with it; I'm not sure if this means there are now infinite votes on both my two picks, or if it just means I can vote two people once.
At least one thing is missing from your full claim: The name of that 'vote for two' oneshot.
Everyone:
This seems like a very strange power, especially if flabort MUST target two different people at once with it. Since we can only lynch one person, what possible advantage is it to be able to vote for two different people at once?
However we do not see a votecount on anyone. It is -possible- that flabort's votes are indeed infinite.
If so, he has now tied today's vote for sure, I think. Two players with 'infinite votes', even if one of those should be 'infinite +1' or so, are surely tied in votes; it's a way to force a mislynch, does anyone understand this differently?
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 09:21:35 pm
Can I change my multi vote, in that case?
To Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Cheetar Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag? 9 to hammer, right?
@Imp:
1) I was hoping it was, and willing to find out the hard way if it wasn't. And find out for sure which alignment Varee was.
2) Because I offered Toaster and he said he wouldn't mind.
3) Heh. Because before I claimed, I wanted to make sure that scum didn't try to NK me tonight, because now I don't get my revive back until after a while. But now they know I can prevent my death; now it's a guessing game of do I or don't I target someone.
4) I hadn't considered that. Let's see... actions targeting me directly fail. I think that negates even unblockable. I haven't checked with wuba.
5) Out of a random list of players, I felt he might be trustworthy, might not be. If the house turned out to be evil, I felt him an acceptable target. If it was good, I still felt him an acceptable target.
6) Besides cheetar, I literally rolled dice for that one. Because I feel that asking everyone is a cop-out, and that I can't say "Person I'm voting, and everyone else:", because that also feels wrong. It goes against some form of orange-and-blue morality code I subconsciously have but am aware of. You know?
And no, before you even ask, it is NOT a game mechanic, it is not a post restriction.
PPE: Said earlier. Vote-tato.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 09:25:37 pm
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 09:25:49 pm
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort,
flabort - Nerjin, Cheeetar,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 09:27:01 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2014, 09:28:01 pm
Post by: flabort on August 12, 2014, 09:30:24 pm
I'm letting someone else be the hangman if anyone finds either of my two suspects scummy.
OK, that's actually a pretty powerful one-shot. Just how high powered is this game then?
Post by: Nerjin on August 12, 2014, 09:30:54 pm
I'm afraid not.
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 09:31:16 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 12, 2014, 09:37:06 pm
The hammer hits when the votecount hits the # of votes needed and...that is final?
Just asking for clarity.
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2014, 09:45:31 pm
O_OYes. No abilities may be used after the end of the Day, which is either Hammer or the deadline.
The hammer hits when the votecount hits the # of votes needed and...that is final?
Just asking for clarity.
Shakerag looks around the room, stunned.
"Well, you guys probably made a good choice... Except you might all be really, really screwed now."
And then he runs out of the house, fake masks going everywhere. All of the masks have the word Shakerag written all over them.
That kid is always making Web's parties weird. Oh well.
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort,
flabort - Nerjin,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, Cheeetar,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Shakerag has been lynched!
Shakerag was The BYOR 13 Role That Is a Constant Source of Aggravation And Annoyance to Everyone Else (sk-ally).
It is now Night. Do not talk unless you are allowed to. Send in your actions please, or say that you do not wish to action.
Quote
Shakerag
The BYOR 13 Role That Is a Constant Source of Aggravation And Annoyance to Everyone Else
SK-Ally
You are… A really long rolename. You came here to make this game irritating for as many people as possible, and by god, you might be able to do it. Just don’t blame me when they start blaming you!
[REDACTED]
(Auto) Sorry!: While you are alive, only one player may die each Night. This is chosen at random among those that died with the most kills targeting them. The rest are revived.
(Auto) Aggravation: While you are alive, all players roleflip as Shakerag Did It (Town).
(Auto) Trouble: While you are alive, one random player is randomized.
(Auto) The Game of Life: While you are alive, you may talk to the dead. You may also use this ability while dead.
Shakerag Did It
Town
Shakerag, what the hell?
(Auto) Shakerag Did It: You know it was him.
Post by: webadict on August 13, 2014, 10:55:47 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar -
flabort -
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, IronyOwl, Scripten, Nerjin, flabort, Cheeetar,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
It is now Day.
Post by: Persus13 on August 13, 2014, 11:00:18 pm
Could you explain your actions at day end yesterday further?
Flabort: Could you do so as well?
Also congrats on killing an Sk ally.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 13, 2014, 11:03:58 pm
Nerjin, what was the power you attempted to use yesterday and why did you try to save Shakerag?
Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.
PFP
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 13, 2014, 11:05:47 pm
Somone obviously distrusts me still. Dunno who, but it isn't really relevant to me anyway who did it.
Cheeetar: what Persus asked. Why the hell did you quick hammer Shakerag.
Also, lolz, I love Shakerag's role. SHAKERAG DID IT, EVERYONE!
PPE: oh, he responded. Eh... I don't really buy it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. unvote.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 13, 2014, 11:07:22 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 13, 2014, 11:07:53 pm
4mask, your input for the night is a... Vote then an immediate unvote? :(
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 13, 2014, 11:10:45 pm
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.You responded in the middle of me writing a post, and I'm tired. My apologies for having exhausted my mental faculties trying to outwit the town in CYOM, hopefully my full wits and scumhunting potential will be back by morning.
4mask, your input for the night is a... Vote then an immediate unvote? :(
I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Post by: Cheeetar on August 13, 2014, 11:19:35 pm
Persus13, it was me orFlabortShakerag and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!
Correction in bold.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 13, 2014, 11:27:48 pm
Cheeetar:
Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!What is your wincon?
Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.So you're saying desperate actions are untrustworthy?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 13, 2014, 11:44:39 pm
I'll start digging back for things later. For now:
Cheeetar:Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!What is your wincon?Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.So you're saying desperate actions are untrustworthy?
All anti-town factions dead.
In that situation, his desperation was suspicious (he had two votes of a necessary 9 on him and he needed to 'save town from a grave mistake'?) I do not trust people who are suspicious, so I am questioning him.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 13, 2014, 11:58:51 pm
All anti-town factions dead.And why was quickhammering Shakerag to save your own skin necessary for that?
In that situation, his desperation was suspicious (he had two votes of a necessary 9 on him and he needed to 'save town from a grave mistake'?) I do not trust people who are suspicious, so I am questioning him.And you had a hammer unilaterally poised over your head by someone you already suspected for other things, and now suspect for that as well. As a result, you felt you had to instantly kill someone you didn't suspect in order to save yourself from the chance that somebody else would say "Yeah, that sounds great!" and unilaterally hammer you, likely ending up on the chopping block themselves for it in the process.
See anything desperate and suspicious about that?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 12:08:10 am
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 12:22:58 am
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)
> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 12:37:02 am
Flabort: Why did you pick two targets and multivoted them--wherein only one was lynched; did you have any information with how your ability worked?
Cheeetar
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!How?
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.We?
This sounds like a fact more than a speculation--or it may be just my interpretation of your wording. Sup?
NQT
Brilliant design knowing my power. What was all that about knowing the name, by the way?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 12:44:30 am
I claim no responsibility for preventing deaths this night, nor do I claim to have no responsibility :D
And uh, congratulations on losing the miller?
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 12:51:11 am
The sk ally is a dude who's trying to help the sk, so he's anti-town. By getting rid of him we're one step closer to winning.Yeah...SK Ally.
I claim no responsibility for preventing deaths this night, nor do I claim to have no responsibility :D
However it is unsure, though I've to ask any vets who have knowledge about alignments and somesuch in this case *stares at OP*, that the ally knew who was the SK, other than there was an SK for the rule to take place.
So I'm pretty wary regarding that case and your attitude--though knowing you...I am undecided.
Also why the paradox of claiming a yes or no and leaning on the 'or' in the middle? :I
...And thanks, but it seems someone swapped it (given the wording) or stole it. Less likely the latter.
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 12:52:02 am
And flabort, did you decide to go with your Latvian Dream of trying to get housing? You implied information gain through that use, would you explain what you learned or whatever else you're willing to say, given that you've already said so much?
Tiruin, so Miller became Filler for you, do you anticipate further changes, perhaps to exchange for Biller or Killer one day, or is Filter an equally likely direction for your permutations? Do you understand -why- you have gained and lost abilities, or was this a surprise to you when it happened? And why have you chosen to tell us about the Miller/Biller thing?
Cheeetar, if another player had made the choice you did at the end of D1, what questions would you want to ask that player? Do you consider 'acting to save oneself' to be appropriate for every player under every condition of high pressure/immediate threat of death?
I'm not going to specifically prod just yet, it's quite early in D2 and right now I am exhausted, but various people have D1 questions that haven't been answered yet. Hope those get a little attention as people have time.
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 12:57:02 am
Imp, did you play around with my role or...
I distinctly remember, and am partly biased by, that one thing you said in banter pre-game .__.
...And no. I do not anti- waaait is this one of the verbal cue abilities which use an answer to activate it -_-
And sure, I can understand why. A philosopher by nature (aha xD), I'm trying to check on how people udnerstand it--the best way possible is that 'oh hey let's check if its a proven cause that Tir is a miller :D!' among others.
A surprise? Yeah. Someone wasted an ability on me and gave me an ability that does fish. 50% to lose...what. I'm being leeched now? :v
I chose to tell you about--and oh no am I not falling for semantic cues such as Biller, my elder Imp--it because.
...
Because. :v
I literally have nothing to lose but information to gain.
*prods everyone with a stick*
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 12:58:46 am
Replace that with Filler. Ability.
Yeah. Those two words.
No permutation or semantic shenanigans. I may have been leeched or...yeah. Stolen. Stuff like that.
The question I'm pondering on is if, ever, I lose any other ability, where does it go.
Per cycle.
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 01:02:18 am
Cheetar:How would an SK ally even work, anyways?
Could you explain your actions at day end yesterday further?
Flabort: Could you do so as well?
Also congrats on killing an Sk ally.
The SK would have to kill it's ally to win. Shakerag would have to die anyways for him to win.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.
As for your question, I knew that:
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.Let's see: I had two choices. Die and never use it, or use it and not know for sure the outcome.
So I went with the advice of "remember to use your one-shots, don't hoard them", and used it. Using an early one-shot is not suspicious.
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!
Try living with that when it makes everyone suspicious of you.
PFP???
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)
> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
Would you mind elaborating?
Varee What did you do last night? Did you target Toaster as discussed?
Toaster What happened last night? Did you gain an ability?
Cheeetar If nobody had chosen to vote anyone else, do you think that 2 votes is not scary? If you're town, what do you see the best plan from here being?
4mask What do you mean, someone distrusts you still?
MysteriousBluePuppet I'd like to hear your thoughts on the situation. Who do you suspect most?
Silthuri What do you think of Tiruin's new claim?
PPE: 4 posts.
Tiruin: My given information was that I had infinite votes with the power, and I could only vote two people. It was later explained to me that I could put multiple votes on one person, and have as many as I want to use. So I put 8 votes each on two people.
If I had voted more votes, that would have been hammer. If I had multihammered, I think it would have been a tie and no-lynch, or it would have been whoever's name had 9 votes first in my list of votes.
Imp: I have not received a PM confirming or denying anything yet; I have not recieved information that would imply that I successfully copied the housing power onto myself. The power is not innately one of information, but I should learn about certain powers affecting me, such as if I gained a new ability like was implied by Varee.
The power is literally a version of WIFOM at night, I think. It's certainly very interesting.
PPE 2 more posts.
Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me.
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 01:19:28 am
No, I have not played around with your role, or you. I am not involved in whatever is happening with your abilities, but I am asking you about what you have said about what has happened.
Are you focused on this part of my pre-game statement?
I get to play with Tiruin.
I specifically said that because of what you said, just before it:
I get to play with Imp.
I added to what I said, yes. I made the pre-game claim,
That's my role, by the way. I sent in 'an imp that plays with Tiruin'. *Rubs hands together*.
Lets see what I get!
That was meant as a joke, and was not the role I actually submitted to webadict this game. Gamer's honor.
Furthermore, if I had actually submitted that role, I would not have stated so pre-game. I believe specifically stating it would weaken my enjoyment of playing such a thing.
I asked what I asked because the way you announced the ability change, and how similar the two names are (Miller/filler) made me wonder if your ability was partially randomized or something. You seemed both confused and forthcoming, and I couldn't even tell by how you wrote if you were surprised that it happened or just confused about a part of it or what.
Like you I'm after information.
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 01:26:41 am
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 01:27:52 am
Also, Varee, what is the deal with that house thing? We're all inside Wuba's house...
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 01:31:14 am
Did you intend to get around to answering them if you hadn't been reminded?
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 01:34:18 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 14, 2014, 01:45:26 am
4 new post
God damn people you guys should be sleeping. Young guns these days ...
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 14, 2014, 01:50:57 am
I might be able to confirm a townie.
Confirming a townie ain't something easy in a By or with all the funky matchup , redirect and all that jazz. Also plant a sign of KILL ME over your head
. Scum hate lightningrod
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 01:59:31 am
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 02:04:57 am
No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
How do you know there's two killing teams when there were no kills last night?
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 02:17:36 am
Pardon ShakeragWtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?
I'm afraid not.
@flabort: Rolefishing, I see... )
Two killing teams as in teams that need to kill everyone.
Also, given an SK, I bet the third party is a survivor.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 14, 2014, 02:36:51 am
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!Haha well all's well that ends well! :))
Really though that was panicky, scummy bullshit and I want to know why.
Tiruin:
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)Per cycle or what? Permanently?
NQTWhat?
Brilliant design knowing my power. What was all that about knowing the name, by the way?
*prods everyone with a stick*Laaaaaaateeeeeeer.
flabort:
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.Really. You want us to believe that you just now figured this out. "SKs? What SKs?! I don't know anything about SKs! Why I didn' even notice anything about SKs when the guy I suspected and helped murder flipped 'SK ALLY!'"
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.So your scummy, panicky, self-serving bullshit is perfectly understandable because you want to live and it "helps town," but Cheeetar's awfully suspicious for pulling the trigger on the gun you cocked for pretty much identical reasons?
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Try living with that when it makes everyone suspicious of you.
MBP: Are you an arsonist again?
TolyK:
Wtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?Shak had already been hammered, so it presumably could not trigger.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 03:21:29 am
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
Here's my case against Flabort: He claimed to be certain both me and Shakerag were scum, and that's why he essentially condemned one of us to death. He does not, however, want to be viewed as responsible for it- he wants everyone to say that I'm to blame for Shakerag's death. He made the situation occur, then blamed me for reacting rationally to it. He thinks I'm a scummy person for lynching a SK ally instead of letting myself die - however, he's perfectly towny for panicking at the sight of two votes and using his one-shot to OMGUS. Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'
I'm going to unvote Nerjin and vote Flabort in the hope that his resurrect was a one-shot. I do still however want Nerjin to explain his attempted saving of Shakerag.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 14, 2014, 03:53:28 am
I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.And have you messaged him for confirmation?
But if scum finished you off, that'd make them rather suspicious, wouldn't it? Were you not prepared to give your life in order to incriminate scum?And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
I was worried somebody would finish me off because we're in a 17 player game of mafia, and some of those 17 players are scum! Yes, I'd rather that I had lived than Shakerag, even before we knew who he was.
I hope that second part isn't intended to be an answer to my third question. "Killing someone else to save my own scummy hide is understandable because I wanted to live!" could be applied to anyone at any time. Would you view tying the vote to save yourself as understandable as well? Vigkilling someone for the sole reason that they might drive a lynch on you tomorrow? Driving a lynch on someone because they suspect you and therefore might in some way lead to your death at some point?
Speaking of which, what about Shakerag? If he'd gotten on first and hammered you instead, what would your reaction be if we all went "Well that was perfectly understandable. Now to lynch flabort for giving him the opportunity!"
Seeing as you see Flabort as equally suspicious for creating the situation- why do you view my reaction as more scummy than him setting it up?He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively. If they'd had the chance, anyone before you could have pulled the shit you pulled on their preferred target, and then justified it with "Well but I wanted this one to live!" But I suspect not many of them would have, because they'd have known it was scummy and counterproductive. Even flabort knew that, in the midst of panicking and scrambling to save his own skin otherwise.
Everyone but you, in other words, probably knew that was a terrible, scummy idea.
But hey, let's ask them about it. Why not, right?
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 04:31:08 am
Cheeetar:I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.And have you messaged him for confirmation?
No- the questions I'd already asked about my role were sufficient. I'm not going to ask Webadict to spell things out for me because I'm fairly sure the uncertainty of what exactly happened is on purpose.
But if scum finished you off, that'd make them rather suspicious, wouldn't it? Were you not prepared to give your life in order to incriminate scum?And why would a townie be desperate here? Why would you be concerned that somebody would come along and finish the job at all? Is there any reason not to heavily suspect you from anyone else's perspective?
I was worried somebody would finish me off because we're in a 17 player game of mafia, and some of those 17 players are scum! Yes, I'd rather that I had lived than Shakerag, even before we knew who he was.
So a townie should be eager to die because then the people who voted him would be suspicious...? I reject that. I'm not a jester- I have no desire to be lynched. If me being lynched aids the town later, huzzah, but I'm not planning for it to happen.
I hope that second part isn't intended to be an answer to my third question. "Killing someone else to save my own scummy hide is understandable because I wanted to live!" could be applied to anyone at any time. Would you view tying the vote to save yourself as understandable as well? Vigkilling someone for the sole reason that they might drive a lynch on you tomorrow? Driving a lynch on someone because they suspect you and therefore might in some way lead to your death at some point?
Speaking of which, what about Shakerag? If he'd gotten on first and hammered you instead, what would your reaction be if we all went "Well that was perfectly understandable. Now to lynch flabort for giving him the opportunity!"
No, my reaction would've been- I probably would've done the same in that circumstance, and now I'm going to lynch Flabort not for giving him the opportunity, but for putting him in the circumstance where it was suicide or lynching somebody else. I didn't get an 'opportunity' to lynch someone. I was essentially forced to- it was me or him.
Seeing as you see Flabort as equally suspicious for creating the situation- why do you view my reaction as more scummy than him setting it up?He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively. If they'd had the chance, anyone before you could have pulled the shit you pulled on their preferred target, and then justified it with "Well but I wanted this one to live!" But I suspect not many of them would have, because they'd have known it was scummy and counterproductive. Even flabort knew that, in the midst of panicking and scrambling to save his own skin otherwise.
Everyone but you, in other words, probably knew that was a terrible, scummy idea.
But hey, let's ask them about it. Why not, right?
No, he couldn't've. The way I see it, he could put X number of votes on two people - that is, both people would receive the same amount of votes from him. So if he set it to 9 it would've tied the day.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 04:52:41 am
Varee Who did you build a house for then?
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.
I'd rather lynch Toaster, who's yet to place a vote despite saying he will (ok, in fairness, the quicklynch probably happened before he got a chance). I want to see whether he's able to press a case today.
Did I miss any questions?
Post by: IronyOwl on August 14, 2014, 04:58:55 am
No- the questions I'd already asked about my role were sufficient. I'm not going to ask Webadict to spell things out for me because I'm fairly sure the uncertainty of what exactly happened is on purpose.I see. Is there a point at which you will be more forthcoming about what exactly you think happened?
So a townie should be eager to die because then the people who voted him would be suspicious...? I reject that. I'm not a jester- I have no desire to be lynched. If me being lynched aids the town later, huzzah, but I'm not planning for it to happen.A townie should be eager to die if the only way to kill him is either the town's will or something scum have to reveal themselves to do.
For instance, you claim to be highly suspicious of flabort for doing that to you, yes? So even if he'd hammered you outright, might it be fair to say that'd have been an excellent trade and that you were glad he'd outed himself to do it? Or would you still bemoan dying even though you didn't want to, because all that was accomplished was making flabort look suspicious?
In fact, let me ask you this: Are you glad flabort did what he did?
So I take it your answer to all of the above scenarios is "yes?" Even while town and thinking somebody else is town, any danger to yourself is a you or them scenario, right? And not just a you or them scenario, but an immediate you or them scenario; can't give town time to discuss it or anything like that. Gotta survive.I hope that second part isn't intended to be an answer to my third question. "Killing someone else to save my own scummy hide is understandable because I wanted to live!" could be applied to anyone at any time. Would you view tying the vote to save yourself as understandable as well? Vigkilling someone for the sole reason that they might drive a lynch on you tomorrow? Driving a lynch on someone because they suspect you and therefore might in some way lead to your death at some point?
Speaking of which, what about Shakerag? If he'd gotten on first and hammered you instead, what would your reaction be if we all went "Well that was perfectly understandable. Now to lynch flabort for giving him the opportunity!"
No, my reaction would've been- I probably would've done the same in that circumstance, and now I'm going to lynch Flabort not for giving him the opportunity, but for putting him in the circumstance where it was suicide or lynching somebody else. I didn't get an 'opportunity' to lynch someone. I was essentially forced to- it was me or him.
I'm sure you're really town.
No, he couldn't've. The way I see it, he could put X number of votes on two people - that is, both people would receive the same amount of votes from him. So if he set it to 9 it would've tied the day.Mm. Possibly. Let's ask him about it too.
flabort: Did your one-shot target two or up to two targets? What would have happened if you applied an uneven number of votes to each, or tried to vote additional targets?
NQT:
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.Now that I think about it, a self-reviving role might make more sense if he also periodically killed himself. Or had some other condition whereupon he was brutally murdered without overt outside help.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 05:29:20 am
Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 05:30:15 am
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.
Do you believe Flabort has a regenerating resurrect?
Post by: IronyOwl on August 14, 2014, 06:04:48 am
Spoiler: Cheeetar (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 06:20:05 am
"I should be happy to be lynched because then people would lynch the person who lynched me"
No, I'm not going to plan to be lynched to prove that I was right.
"I am scum because I voted to lynch somebody rather than die myself."
No. I had no way of knowing what alignment he was, and spoiler alert: turned out to not be townie.
"You want me to believe you! Aha! I've caught you!"
Errr... I want you to at least consider my points. You're tunneling a bit much here.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 06:35:55 am
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 06:45:07 am
Nerjin, what was the power you attempted to use yesterday and why did you try to save Shakerag?
Why do you think? I believed him to be doing no wrong and felt that Flabort was simply trying to save their own skin. But I'll address that later. As President I issued a full pardon to Shakerag. Apparently however, if a hammer occurs I don't get to use that ability because... I'm too slow or something. It seems to limit what I'm capable of but then again a hammer is a rare thing.
I assure you that I will not use this ability unless I find it absolutely necessary. If the town wishes it, I can prevent all lynches [though I’d prefer not to] and if town wishes I can simply not issue pardons. I leave it up to town to decide. I consider this ability no longer mine. But towns.
Flabort: . . . congrats onkilling an Sk ally.saving your own skin and luckily killing a SK Ally.
I fixed that for you.
Spoiler: Flabort – MUST READ (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Irony (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)
That’s all for now America [and Flabort]. I leave you, now, with one of my inspirational quotes: Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation, for it is better to be alone, than in bad company
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 14, 2014, 06:49:13 am
Quote
MBP: Are you an arsonist again?
Nah. While I wish I was ( because let's be clear, i can't think of a funner role, i was laughing histerically during the entirety of BYOR 4) i think that game showed that it waaay too powerfull. Silent triggerable mass kills ? Uncopable ? Kills undirectable/going trough protect? Scum wished they had all that sweet stuff.
And to bring it to Cheetar point, i mostly see it as a null tell. If you wanna keep playing, and you got a ability to allow you to doso, why the fuck not. You risk being unlucky and killing someone useful, but that didn't happen.
ALso Nerin, what's up with the pardon? Ability ? Presidential Flavor?
New Post:
Fair enough,
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 07:08:51 am
Tiruin:1. I've totally no idea. I have the Filler thingy however that gives me a 50% chance to lose an ability per cycle.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)Per cycle or what? Permanently?NQTWhat?
Brilliant design knowing my power. What was all that about knowing the name, by the way?*prods everyone with a stick*Laaaaaaateeeeeeer.
I queried at Wuba on the exact details of it--still have to get an answer.
And about the miller thing? It just says I lost it O__O
So yeah. I'm not a miller now \o/
2. That's a cont. to D1. NQT kept on poking me about my power name and stuff like that. As of now, its a placeholder vote.
3. :I
Here's my case against Flabort: He claimed to be certain both me and Shakerag were scum, and that's why he essentially condemned one of us to death. He does not, however, want to be viewed as responsible for it- he wants everyone to say that I'm to blame for Shakerag's death. He made the situation occur, then blamed me for reacting rationally to it. He thinks I'm a scummy person for lynching a SK ally instead of letting myself die - however, he's perfectly towny for panicking at the sight of two votes and using his one-shot to OMGUS. Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
I'm going to unvote Nerjin and vote Flabort in the hope that his resurrect was a one-shot. I do still however want Nerjin to explain his attempted saving of Shakerag.
Tiruin, I already told you, I don't care what your ability was called (I don't have any power that targets ability names), I just wanted to know whether it fit with your theme (so I could judge how believable your miller claim was). If you suspected me of replacing your miller power with a filler power, then I'm not sure why you'd be voting me... did you want to be a miller?!...unvote
>_> Like I wanted to be Miller. Oh yeees I did! :D No. <_<
It was more a vote-incentive to poke you because I'm busy reading up the thread as of late. What I'm wary of, now, is that a person is able to target (probably by knowing the name of the ability), an...ability and steal it. I'm biased by previous encounters with such shenanigans though.
Also how did you judge Unlucky fitting my theme? :I
MBP: You're Jiokuy, right?
What's your opinion regarding that usage of a one-shot in D1 that equals an insta-kill?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 07:16:50 am
he essentially condemned one of us to death.Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
Well, there's one lynch per day- so, one of us. It could've been either of us, but only one could've died.
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 07:19:47 am
Nothing says how many lynches can occur in the OP.he essentially condemned one of us to death.Err, didn't he condemn both of you to death?
Well, there's one lynch per day- so, one of us. It could've been either of us, but only one could've died.
...
Though nothing says otherwise, too.
Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 07:46:24 am
Wondered why another tab was open.
Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
>_>
It's troubling you, how.
Is that so easy to append?
PFP
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 07:47:32 am
Tiruin:I know silly! :P I was also saying that in jest (though I did make it of mention that...the wording may make it sound like its a crucial factor. Sorry about that :x)
No, I have not played around with your role, or you. I am not involved in whatever is happening with your abilities, but I am asking you about what you have said about what has happened.
Are you focused on this part of my pre-game statement?I get to play with Tiruin.
I specifically said that because of what you said, just before it:I get to play with Imp.
I added to what I said, yes. I made the pre-game claim,That's my role, by the way. I sent in 'an imp that plays with Tiruin'. *Rubs hands together*.
Lets see what I get!
That was meant as a joke, and was not the role I actually submitted to webadict this game. Gamer's honor.
Quote
I asked what I asked because the way you announced the ability change, and how similar the two names are (Miller/filler) made me wonder if your ability was partially randomized or something. You seemed both confused and forthcoming, and I couldn't even tell by how you wrote if you were surprised that it happened or just confused about a part of it or what.In truth, I'm quite :O that someone picked me as a target!
Of all the games, I'm finally picked by someone *_*
I feel both honored and in awe, because I got picked. Also other stuffs which are confusing at the moment and all (ie Who hit Tiruin?).
Tiruin, what action did you use this night? Don't say on who or what, perhaps not even concretely what it did, but what you used....
What action > Don't say who or what.
...
Err. Doesn't that defeat the first question?
I used an action last night, yeah?
...
...
You ask me what action I did, but I shouldn't say what.
@__@
Wat.
Post by: webadict on August 14, 2014, 08:07:18 am
Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 08:54:15 am
Cheeetar:
Alright, I think you're still suspicious, but Flabort is more suspicious.Persus13, it was me orFlabortShakerag and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town. Thanks!
Correction in bold.
Tiruin:
> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.That wasn't me.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
However it is unsure, though I've to ask any vets who have knowledge about alignments and somesuch in this case *stares at OP*, that the ally knew who was the SK, other than there was an SK for the rule to take place.I believe SK-ally doesn't know who the SK is unless it's one of their autos. I'm not too sure on that. However I'm pretty sure that the SK doesn't know who their ally is.
So I'm pretty wary regarding that case and your attitude--though knowing you...I am undecided.
Also why the paradox of claiming a yes or no and leaning on the 'or' in the middle? :I
...And thanks, but it seems someone swapped it (given the wording) or stole it. Less likely the latter.
Flabort:
How would an SK ally even work, anyways?Allies win when the people they're allied with win.
The SK would have to kill it's ally to win. Shakerag would have to die anyways for him to win.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.
Dying does not equal losing, unless you're the last member of your faction.
We have 17 players. Why did you think there wasn't an SK?
As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Imp: I have not received a PM confirming or denying anything yet; I have not recieved information that would imply that I successfully copied the housing power onto myself. The power is not innately one of information, but I should learn about certain powers affecting me, such as if I gained a new ability like was implied by Varee.If you don't get a PM, it means your action was or seemed successful.
It's called common sense. TolyK did the same exact thing in Jack's BYOR too. If there's a 17 player game, then either there is a large scumteam or multiple third parties. Only multiple third parties is more balanced and FUN. Also, Shakerag's role only allows one kill to occur, which means that at least two people have some form of kill. One of which we know is the SK, while the other is likely the Mafia or a Vigilante. Weren't you in Jack's BYOR? Stop trying to cast suspicion on other people.No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
How do you know there's two killing teams when there were no kills last night?
TolyK:
I happened to see this while reading (yes, I see posts 352 and 353, but I'm on phone and can only quote one at a time).Webadict specifically said at the end of D1 that actions sent in after the hammer fail. So yes.Pardon ShakeragWtf was this? Apparently a mayor who failed?
I'm afraid not.
NQT:
I want to say that, in Cheetah's position, I'd probably have done the exact same thing. When you're hammer-tied and you don't know the alignment of the person you're tied with, hammering them is probably the right move regardless of your alignment.Although I agree with you on Cheeetar, you're being really lenient on people this game. Are you prviding any alternatives to Flabort and Cheetar?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 09:03:20 am
4mask What do you mean, someone distrusts you still?What I mean was that my action last night failed, which I'm assuming means I was roleblocked (which is odd, because that's my power). Either that, or my target was immune to roleblocks.
I can't really fault Cheeetar for trying to save his own skin, but his defensiveness about it... idk. Something strikes me as off, and I want to get to the bottom of this.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 09:19:30 am
I can't really fault Cheeetar for trying to save his own skin, but his defensiveness about it... idk. Something strikes me as off, and I want to get to the bottom of this.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
So... I can't help but notice that you ask him a question that has nothing to do with the defensiveness that you claim to want to get to the bottom of.
Interesting... Very interesting...
That's all for now America. Stay safe. Stay America.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 09:20:06 am
Hello once again America [and Flabort]. I want to address 4mask today.The question is going to lead into another one. I want his answer to this one first.I can't really fault Cheeetar for trying to save his own skin, but his defensiveness about it... idk. Something strikes me as off, and I want to get to the bottom of this.
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
So... I can't help but notice that you ask him a question that has nothing to do with the defensiveness that you claim to want to get to the bottom of.
Interesting... Very interesting...
That's all for now America. Stay safe. Stay America.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 09:33:13 am
Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
In a typical 12 player game, there's like 3 scum (generally?)
So 25% of 19 is uh, 5? 4?
Maybe two scum teams of 3 each?
Third parties: We know there's a sk, there's tons of other probabilities as well. Guessing... 4? I really don't know. Webadict has some insane setups sometimes.
Post by: Varee on August 14, 2014, 09:39:01 am
Well my brain is too tired today, I will just make a full post tmr.(that like 10 hrs )
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 09:49:00 am
Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.Cheeetar: How many scum do you think there are? How many third parties?
In a typical 12 player game, there's like 3 scum (generally?)
So 25% of 19 is uh, 5? 4?
Maybe two scum teams of 3 each?
Third parties: We know there's a sk, there's tons of other probabilities as well. Guessing... 4? I really don't know. Webadict has some insane setups sometimes.
Okay. So you're saying that you guess 10-11 townies, 4-5 scum, and 4 third parties?
In which case, why were you afraid of dying. The town outnumbers the scum by a lot right now. Yes, you managed to off a hostile third party, but you didn't know that at the time. What made you convinced that Shakerag wasn't town? Why did you think you mattered more to the town than he did?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 09:57:23 am
Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.
Okay. So you're saying that you guess 10-11 townies, 4-5 scum, and 4 third parties?
In which case, why were you afraid of dying. The town outnumbers the scum by a lot right now. Yes, you managed to off a hostile third party, but you didn't know that at the time. What made you convinced that Shakerag wasn't town? Why did you think you mattered more to the town than he did?
(Emphasis mine)
I never claimed I knew anything. I knew I was town, I didn't know he was. I was afraid of dying because there was one vote necessary to kill me. I don't like having to repeat things like this- please just read my previous posts if you'd like to ask me stuff, because I may have answered it already.
Post by: Scripten on August 14, 2014, 09:59:51 am
Vote Flabort
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 10:09:56 am
You didn't answer my last question. What made you think you being alive was more important than him being alive to the town? Also, who would have hammered you? Nobody had any major suspicions of you that I can recall, and if someone hammered you they would be outing themselves as anti-town unless they could come up with a damn good excuse. You don't have to be alive to fulfill the town wincon: why are you so important you have to be kept alive? Particularly when anyone hammering you would be summarily lynched, thus making your death take a scum down? Is you being alive more important than a scum being dead?Well, we've killed one third party and there probably is an sk, so that makes two.
Okay. So you're saying that you guess 10-11 townies, 4-5 scum, and 4 third parties?
In which case, why were you afraid of dying. The town outnumbers the scum by a lot right now. Yes, you managed to off a hostile third party, but you didn't know that at the time. What made you convinced that Shakerag wasn't town? Why did you think you mattered more to the town than he did?
(Emphasis mine)
I never claimed I knew anything. I knew I was town, I didn't know he was. I was afraid of dying because there was one vote necessary to kill me. I don't like having to repeat things like this- please just read my previous posts if you'd like to ask me stuff, because I may have answered it already.
Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 10:17:01 am
There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 10:40:08 am
Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
PFP
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 10:51:51 am
Because only Shakerag got hammered, by Cheeetar. If you mean why didn't he hammer both Cheeetar and Shakerag and lynch them both, I don't know.Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
PFP
Flabort: Why didn't you lynch both Cheeetar and Shakerag?
Post by: Scripten on August 14, 2014, 10:52:24 am
There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2014, 10:52:54 am
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
Because he put them at L-1, not hammer.
A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 10:54:41 am
You quoted a post from me responding to 4maskwolf, with a response that appears to be responding to 4maskwolf, not myself. What post are you trying to respond to here?There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Post by: Scripten on August 14, 2014, 11:13:47 am
Scripten:You quoted a post from me responding to 4maskwolf, with a response that appears to be responding to 4maskwolf, not myself. What post are you trying to respond to here?There was no incentive not to hammer. If flabort really had cared about getting town to focus on those two, he could have made it so there were two votes needed to hammer.Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it.Not necessarily: had neither of them hammered the other, the one who lived wouldn't be regarded with extra suspicion, at least not by me. The one who delivered the quickhammer would be.
Also, what are you trying to argue that's different from anything IronyOwl has said and that Cheeetar has already responded to?
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Oh, thought the question was directed toward me just because of the content, rather than the context. Either way, it's relevant.
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2014, 11:21:56 am
Varee:
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Wasn't me. Did you target someone or just let it be random?
Scripten:
Regardless of who got out of that situation, Shakerag and Cheetar would both have ended up being suspicious, depending on who survived it. Because of that, Flabort comes up pretty damn scummy, or at least anti-town, for propagating the situation.
Vote Flabort
I agree with this sentiment. I can't blame Cheeetar for what he did (though he had no way of knowing the outcome, so he gets zero credit for hammering a dangerous third party), because Flabort put them both in a sticky situation.
That said, is that it? You're just going to come in here and bandwagon with a regurgitated case on Flabort? What happened to your case on TolyK? On Varee?
NQT spent the first half of D1 going on and on with Tiruin about her miller claim, in a way that really just looked like a way to act busy.
NQT:
Everyone on Flabort's Case, he's engaged, he's voting people and posting: is he really the best Day 1 lynch candidate?
What about now?
If we lynch Flabort, someone will have to night kill him or day kill him to stop him coming back. But frankly, I don't see Wuba giving scum an insta-hammer ability like that.
I have learned it's best not to suppose what Wuba will and won't do.
So for reals, who do you suspect and why?
TolyK:
flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
This is the sum total of your vote history. Beyond that, I can't really find you pursuing targets with any real interest. Who do you suspect now and why? Does your suspicion of Flabort still hold?
More should be coming; I want this out now.
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 12:29:19 pm
Nine to hammer. If nobody else votes, you only need one vote and the day to end to lynch. Two votes is still enough to kill; nine is just what ends the day early.Flabort, why did you use your one-shot so early? Your move seemed incredibly desperate.Let's see: I had two choices. Die and never use it, or use it and not know for sure the outcome.
So I went with the advice of "remember to use your one-shots, don't hoard them", and used it. Using an early one-shot is not suspicious.
It is suspicious if you use it for seemingly no reason to essentially daykill someone. And no, don't create a false dilemma for yourself. You wouldn't die if you hadn't used it- there were two people voting you of a necessary nine.
Here's my case against Flabort: He claimed to be certain both me and Shakerag were scum, and that's why he essentially condemned one of us to death. He does not, however, want to be viewed as responsible for it- he wants everyone to say that I'm to blame for Shakerag's death. He made the situation occur, then blamed me for reacting rationally to it. He thinks I'm a scummy person for lynching a SK ally instead of letting myself die - however, he's perfectly towny for panicking at the sight of two votes and using his one-shot to OMGUS. Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'Shakerag turned out to be anti-town. I trust my gut. It still says you're scum.
I'm going to unvote Nerjin and vote Flabort in the hope that his resurrect was a one-shot. I do still however want Nerjin to explain his attempted saving of Shakerag.
I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger; I admit that I set up the situation. But if I were to be the one that chose and killed a person, all on my own, that would be a jerk move; also, biased. If this action still gets me killed, I still bring the person(s) that are most scummy with me.
I didn't "blame" you for "acting rationally": I said the situation was such that anyone who thought it through and still wanted me to die would not have voted for shakerag or you. You panicked, in other words.
Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.
And come on, a vote? "In the hopes that [my] revive was a one-shot"? My votes were a one-shot. My revive recharges.
flabort:Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.Really. You want us to believe that you just now figured this out. "SKs? What SKs?! I don't know anything about SKs! Why I didn' even notice anything about SKs when the guy I suspected and helped murder flipped 'SK ALLY!'"C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.So your scummy, panicky, self-serving bullshit is perfectly understandable because you want to live and it "helps town," but Cheeetar's awfully suspicious for pulling the trigger on the gun you cocked for pretty much identical reasons?
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
Maybe it did, but it means that you were the hang-man, the one with blood on your hands now.
Try living with that when it makes everyone suspicious of you.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
OK, fine, my given reasons for voting him are a bit of a double standard. But I notice you're voting him and finding him suspicious too.
So we both want to live and used that as our justification for yesterday. We still suspect each other and find each other to be scummy.
@flabort: Rolefishing, I see... )How is asking how you know that rolefishing? Unless knowing that information is part of your role, how would you assume that I asked that because I was rolefishing?
Two killing teams as in teams that need to kill everyone.
Also, given an SK, I bet the third party is a survivor.
OK, so you're considering the SK to be a killing team. OK, I can understand that.
But how would you know there's another third party? We already have an SK and an SK-ally for thirds, how would you know there is a third third?
There's no information in any of the mod-posts indicating this.
flabort: Did your one-shot target two or up to two targets? What would have happened if you applied an uneven number of votes to each, or tried to vote additional targets?I would interpret it as up to two targets.
With an uneven number of votes, it would imply suspicion of one over the other. I chose not to, so it's a moot point.
If I had tried to vote additional targets, I guess it would have failed, or would have not counted the additional targets.
Quote from: Nerjin
FLABORT MUST READYou are entitled to your opinions. I am entitled to my opinions too, and if I choose to believe you are President Stalin For Life, you wouldn't be able to change that opinion. I choose to believe that you are working for the town, right now, but that you are very mistaken about who to pursue.
You hypocritical communist. I choose to believe you are entirely to blame, in order to set up the idea that it's been you the whole time
So now you're saying... what? I don't understand this talk of Unlucky and having nothing to lose but information, and you're saying you're not miller now?Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
>_>
It's troubling you, how.
Is that so easy to append?
It's tickling my suspicion, and I don't understand the chaos of those posts. It's troubling me because you're saying something that directly affects how we perceive your alignment is changed.
An SK is such an underpowered alignment though. So easy for someone to accidentally kill the SK or find him out; almost impossible for the SK to win, even with their kills and other powers.
Flabort:How would an SK ally even work, anyways?Allies win when the people they're allied with win.
The SK would have to kill it's ally to win. Shakerag would have to die anyways for him to win.
Wait, does that mean we have an SK? Great.
Dying does not equal losing, unless you're the last member of your faction.
We have 17 players. Why did you think there wasn't an SK?
So benefit of the doubt. I was assuming that if there were third parties, they'd be a bit more survivable. Like a watcher or something.
Quote
Not totally avoid responsibility, but yes, I guess that's a good summary.As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Quote
OK, but that means that it didn't interact with Varee's or Varee didn't target Toaster.Imp: I have not received a PM confirming or denying anything yet; I have not recieved information that would imply that I successfully copied the housing power onto myself. The power is not innately one of information, but I should learn about certain powers affecting me, such as if I gained a new ability like was implied by Varee.If you don't get a PM, it means your action was or seemed successful.
Quote
OK. He could have explained that that information was coming from Shake's powers. Instead of thinking it's rolefishing. How did he even come to that conclusion that that's what I was doing this time? He just assumed that because I do that a lot, that's what I was doing?It's called common sense. TolyK did the same exact thing in Jack's BYOR too. If there's a 17 player game, then either there is a large scumteam or multiple third parties. Only multiple third parties is more balanced and FUN. Also, Shakerag's role only allows one kill to occur, which means that at least two people have some form of kill. One of which we know is the SK, while the other is likely the Mafia or a Vigilante. Weren't you in Jack's BYOR? Stop trying to cast suspicion on other people.No, I'm just in a different time zone. GMT+2, 10am now.Where are you getting this information? How do you know there's another third party after the SK and SK-ally?
That's true, of course, which is something I might confirm only to me.
Also, we almost definitely have an SK, given an SK-ally (unless Wuba really is a bastard in regard to Shakerag :D), and we have another third party to be sure.
Given at least two killing teams, I'd guess we either have an arsonist or a really strange mafia kill.
How do you know there's two killing teams when there were no kills last night?
Because I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch, then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.Err.Webadict: Is this game restricted to One Lynch Per Day?No. But only in cases where two or more players are successfully Hammered. Ending the Day with equal votes less than Hammer is a No Lynch. Or those related to abilities, as always.
Flabort. Why was there only one person lynched?
PFP
See directly above.
Flabort: Why didn't you lynch both Cheeetar and Shakerag?
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?*facepalm* Because the ability only works on up to two people. It's part of the ability.
And oh boy would that ever be overpowered. "Here's an instant win button."
And also, see answer directly above.
Toaster, how could you assume that I could hammer everybody but myself?
If I missed anything please let me know.
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2014, 12:57:05 pm
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?*facepalm* Because the ability only works on up to two people. It's part of the ability.
And oh boy would that ever be overpowered. "Here's an instant win button."
And also, see answer directly above.
Toaster, how could you assume that I could hammer everybody but myself?
If you said that, I missed it. And remember what I said about not assuming anything with Wuba? Allow me to cite BYOR 10:
Quote from: Hapah's Role
Hapah - Kefka
Alignment: Town
Wincon: You win when all anti-Town factions are dead. (Mafia, Cult, SK, Lyncher, Assassin, and respective Allies and Brothers)
(1-Shot, Night) Demon: Blocks all actions used against you during this Night.
(1-Shot, Night) Fiend [target]: Delays the target. If the target is targeting you, they are blocked.
(1-Shot, Night) Goddess [target]: Target gains (Auto) Zombify: When you die, you revive once. If you are the target of a non-kill action, you die. Kill actions have no effect on you.
(99-Shot) Light of Judgment: This is only usable after you have used Demon, Fiend, and Goddess. You kill everyone else.
And yes, that's a town role.
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 01:01:03 pm
Here's my case against Flabort: [Cheetar's case] Do note that his reasons for suspecting me so far had been 'that guy just doesn't sit right with me.'. . . I trust my gut. It still says you're scum.
The rest of us, however, would greatly appreciate proof of your status. Specifically: Something that did NOT arise from the situation you masterminded.
(a)I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger; I admit that I set up the situation. (B)But if I were to be the one that chose and killed a person, all on my own, that would be a jerk move; also, biased. (C) If this action still gets me killed, I still bring the person(s) that are most scummy with me.
A) Why? If you were certain of someone's communist leaning and used logic and reasoning before using the vote power America would have been less suspicious of you. HOWEVER that's not what you did.
B) No. Forcing someone else to implicate themselves due to your failure to have a legitimate case makes it a jerk move.
C) No. You panic and bring the two people who you had the biggest gut reaction towards with you. If a gut reaction makes a man right, then science is wrong. Medicine is wrong. A bowling ball falls faster than a feather due to gravity. No. You have no case other than the case you pulled out of the air via your own mechanations.
Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.
I still don't think you were day killed. You wiped the board. Or one of your 'komerades' did. Why would someone day kill you if you were already on the block to be lynched? No, no I think it makes much more sense that after wiping the board didn't save your communist hide, you decided to pull out the big guns. You don't care about the town. You don't care about America! The only thing you care about is your own victory condition.
And come on, a vote? "In the hopes that [my] revive was a one-shot"? My votes were a one-shot. My revive recharges.
We only have your word for that. I'm willing to bet that this isn't the case.
OK, fine, my given reasons for voting [Cheetar] are a bit of a double standard. But I notice you [IronyOwl] voting him and finding him suspicious too.
So we both want to live and used that as our justification for yesterday. We still suspect each other and find each other to be scummy.
Yes. You both do. Cheetar AND you find the other suspicious. The difference being that you are doing nothing to help and are doing a lot to hurt. Cheetar, though I don't know his alignment for sure, at least is focusing on the person responsible for forcing his hand.
Quote from: NerjinFLABORT MUST READYou are entitled to your opinions. I am entitled to my opinions too, and if I choose to believe you are President Stalin For Life, you wouldn't be able to change that opinion. I choose to believe that you are working for the town, right now, but that you are very mistaken about who to pursue.
You hypocritical communist. I choose to believe you are entirely to blame, in order to set up the idea that it's been you the whole time
Hahahahaha heheheheheh... Oh you're too cute. That really is an adorable way to try to discredit what I said. No. What I say is backed up with facts. How you acted. How you ARE acting. How you react. Your opinion is, yet again, based on the fact that someone else suspects you.
Shake and Cheetar suspected you. We see how that went. Now I suspect you and... You're panicking. You see what I'm saying has truth to it. But now, your precious little one shot is gone. Now all you can rely on is ad hominem attacks. How about, instead of dismissing my comments you prove them wrong? Using logic and reasoning. Evidence and quotes. Instead of "You're wrong because I say so". I don't think I'm making an outrageous request. So how about you humor me. Prove to me, no, prove to AMERICA that what you did was warrented. That what you did proves you're town. I've given my evidence. Now you give yours.
It's tickling my suspicion, and I don't understand the chaos of those posts. It's troubling me because you're saying something that directly affects how we perceive your alignment is changed.
Again you say something along the lines of 'gut reaction'. Well a gut reaction is like iron. Unrefined by the fires of truth and evidence it is simply a rock. A more useful rock than some [the rocks of lurking and deciept] but a rock none-the-less. Give evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise, keep them to yourself.
Not totally avoid responsibility, but yes, I guess that's a good summary.As for your question, I knew that:So you did it to draw attention away from yourself, get two other people lynched that weren't you and avoid responsibility for it. Nice try. Yeah, you need to be lynched.
A) I would die for reals if I was voted that day after being daykilled, because my revive would not have time to recharge.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe. Yes, this was incredibly self-serving, but I feel like my powers could help town. Less so now that I've actually claimed them, but I think they can still help; turning the night game against Scum into an excruciating game of "Did I or didn't I, and if I did where?". Night WIFOM vs Scum, if you will.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
E) I essentially presented the two of them with a variation on Prisoner's Dilemma. If one votes the other, they survive the day. If anyone else considered them scummy, though, they didn't. If they managed to each vote each other simultaneously (they didn't), they'd both survive due to it becoming a tie and no-lynch.
F) I didn't trust either of them.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Thank you for admitting that you were throwing suspicion off yourself [or trying to]. But once again you lied. I went ahead and marked the statements that show you trying to avoid responsibility directly. I was even kind and let the "I don't want to cause a tie" comment slide as that can be reasonably argued to be American in nature.
If I missed anything please let me know.
Well... You missed my entire argument. Well, not so much missed as dismissed. How about you respond to it in a rational manner instead of making the childish retort of "No it isn't".
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2014, 01:07:39 pm
Flabort:
I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger;
This is incredibly self-serving.
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 01:09:24 pm
You...confuse me heavily.So now you're saying... what? I don't understand this talk of Unlucky and having nothing to lose but information, and you're saying you're not miller now?Tiruin I don't fully understand what you're saying but it's troubling me....Yeah, let's give me the finger without giving any more details than 'D: WAT U SAY'
>_>
It's troubling you, how.
Is that so easy to append?
It's tickling my suspicion, and I don't understand the chaos of those posts. It's troubling me because you're saying something that directly affects how we perceive your alignment is changed.
First you don't ask why or how.
Next you note somethingsomething perceive my alignment being changed.
Did you get the note that the ability that got the perceiving of my alignment being wiped out or are you noting something subtle there, flabort? Am I missing something or is your wording being silly?
What did you get from reading my post, anyway?
Quote
Because I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch[...], then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.But it wasn't a hammer-tie, was it?
Someone got lynched. Shakerag got lynched.
And I can't view the votecount back then right now so excuse me if there's one extra vote that made Shakerag > that other target you got there.
Also...you had no idea because you thought the description of the ability was clear-cut?
Do note: No-lynch hammer ties were mentioned when the votes were BELOW THE HAMMER COUNT.
The hammer had fallen back then.
PFP
Post by: Tiruin on August 14, 2014, 01:11:10 pm
Tiruin:Why're you telling this out loud, now?> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
Post by: Jack A T on August 14, 2014, 01:33:50 pm
Also, Flabort, you can revive several times?4maskwolf: Darvi, BYOR 7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81714.msg2323871#msg2323871) However, there, the revives were limited more strongly and each death (which would happen at least once a cycle after the first kill) would drain him of the ability to use his other powers/his other powers would drain his life.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something Wuba would give a townie.
Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.flabort: Dariush, BYOR 8. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99587.msg3024926#msg3024926) Also, stop it with the slippery slope absence argument. It doesn't work at all.
So 25% of 19 is uh, 5? 4?Cheeetar: There's only 17 slots in this game.
TolyK: Respond to my stuff. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5567323#msg5567323)
So. A few people, through their actions, have caught my attention. I'm tired, I have a bad headache, and my internet connection is a mess, so I'll try to examine them more closely and deal with them later today, but they are the following players:
*Flabort. Was scummy Day 1. Got scummier now with the whole hammer gambit being an effort to get attention off of him and onto someone else while avoiding responsibility for a lynch he caused. I would probably place my initial Day 2 vote here, but he's careening towards a hammer and I'd rather not help bring one too quickly. Also, might be third party (powers are odd for mafia. Doublehammer for an/the informed minority seems a bit much, though I wouldn't put it beyond Wuba)
*TolyK for his very weak participation in the initial Day 1 Flabortwagon and lack of any other scumhunting.
*NQT, aside from the Tiruin scuffle, has largely contributed in a way that could easily be replaced by an NQTbot that occasionally pops up to tell us to stop voting for an active player and vote for an inactive one. Which feels wrong, considering that would be, in most circumstances, just a bad caricature of him. He gives me the feel of someone coasting through the game, not engaging with the cases he opposes and not making cases against the people he says he wants to lynch. He seems to be, to put it simply, not quite here.
*Cheeetar: That hammer.
For now, extend for the following reason:
Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.Webadict: That is an error, right?
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 01:41:45 pm
EBWOPBecause when things are a confusing mess, I like to help fix it when I can.Tiruin:Why're you telling this out loud, now?> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
I'm confused by what you're saying here, and I think its because you're misunderstanding what happened yesterday.QuoteBecause I had no idea about this. If I had known that hammer-ties do not result in a no-lynch[...], then hammering both of them would have been the better course of action, because now knowing this a lot of what I had said about not wanted to cause a tie is voided. I didn't know this at the time, though, so I thought if I had hammered them both, no-one would have died.But it wasn't a hammer-tie, was it?
Someone got lynched. Shakerag got lynched.
And I can't view the votecount back then right now so excuse me if there's one extra vote that made Shakerag > that other target you got there.
Also...you had no idea because you thought the description of the ability was clear-cut?
Do note: No-lynch hammer ties were mentioned when the votes were BELOW THE HAMMER COUNT.
The hammer had fallen back then.
PFP
At end of day yesterday, Flabort played an ability that he says allowed him to vote two players as much as he wanted. He voted so that Cheeetar and Shakerag each had 8 votes, meaning one last vote would hammer. Cheeetar then voted Shakerag, hammering and causing the day to end with a Shakerag lynch. Only one person was lynched because only one person was hammered.
Flabort says he gave them enough votes for someone else to hammer because those were his top two suspects and he wanted to avoid responsibility for them being lynched. He also says he didn't know that Hammering two people at the same time would result in both being lynched.
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 01:44:55 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort,
flabort - Nerjin,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Shakerag - flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, flabort, Cheeetar,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Toaster, TolyK, Varee, Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Jack A T, notquitethere, Persus13, Shakerag, IronyOwl, Scripten,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Thursday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 02:05:52 pm
And yes, that's a town role....there had to be something else in play in order to make that balanced. Though that's not an instant win. He had to use all three of his other abilities, and I'm guessing that he could only use one per night. That essentially makes his power "Town is Watcher 4 if you stay alive".
Tiruin I confuse you? You confuse me.
I don't understand what you mean "first you don't say why or how", at all.
To clarify what I said: Something that affects "The way we perceive your alignment" has been changed. You're saying you lost miller, so if town investigates you and finds a scum result now, what does that mean?
I think one of us is missing something or both our wording is being silly, because I didn't fully understand the sentence where you just voted me.
Shakerag got lynched because there was an additional vote besides mine. And I didn't know I could make a tied hammer, so that's why only one person died.
Forgot to mention this bit:Fine. Guilty as charged, it was self-serving. Still town. Still not lying in anything I've said.
Flabort:I don't want to be seen as the one who pulled the trigger;
This is incredibly self-serving.
Maybe still omitting details. Not lying. I don't lie to town as town.
Quote from: President Stalin
Well... You missed my entire argument. Well, not so much missed as dismissed. How about you respond to it in a rational manner instead of making the childish retort of "No it isn't".Let me think of a way to best answer that then.
But how can you pretend to hate communism so much when you're the head of Russia?
But seriously, how can you be so blind to the truth? Drop your "president" act and tell me exactly what you think of each player right now, how they can or could relate to me or Cheeetar, and what the results tell you.
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Your case on me is that I am a big fat hypocrite, and that I am not genuinely scum hunting. Tell me if this is accurate, and then tell me I haven't been hunting for scum.
PPE: Thank you Persus. That was explained pretty well. How do you perceive the current situation?
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 02:18:59 pm
Quote from: President StalinWell... You missed my entire argument. Well, not so much missed as dismissed. How about you respond to it in a rational manner instead of making the childish retort of "No it isn't".Let me think of a way to best answer that then.
But how can you pretend to hate communism so much when you're the head of Russia?
So we're off to a good start. Name calling. I've been tossing the terms "communist" and "America" around as replacements for Scum and Town respectively. This right here is just name calling.
Quote from: Flabort
But seriously, how can you be so blind to the truth? Drop your "president" act and tell me exactly what you think of each player right now, how they can or could relate to me or Cheeetar, and what the results tell you.
Okay. I have null reads on everyone except: You (Scum), NQT (Scum-lean), and Varee (Scum-Lean).
There. I've put in exactly as much effort as you. Actually, far more so but that's beside the point.
Quote from: Flabort
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
It would be most helpful yes.
Quote from: Flabort
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
My my my... So many claims and... Wait... Why? What evidence do you have? Hold up... Let me try something.
Town wins. Scum loses. All third parties lose. Webadict makes a public apology for murdering his family which he murdered with an acid based shotgun.
Hm... No, just saying something was true didn't make it true. Go figure. How about you PROVE that I'm scum? How about you PROVE Cheetar is an SK. How about you PROVE that these people [who oddly enough all have cases on you] are so evil. Hm?
Quote from: Flabort
Your case on me is that I am a big fat hypocrite, and that I am not genuinely scum hunting. Tell me if this is accurate, and then tell me I haven't been hunting for scum.
It is not. You are not. It is not. You have not.
There. I responded to all your accusations. Please refute my actual argument if you please.
P.S.
I agree. He did explain what you said very well. Then he posted the vote count because reasons I guess.
Anyways, your OMGUS is adorable.
@Everyone
Sorry for breaking character. I'll try not to do so in the future.
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 02:40:30 pm
I'd rather give more time for Scripten to examine TolyK if Scripten chooses to chase this further without this possibly clouding reactions, if Scripten was just being indirect about beginning to explore it, but day end nears and I don't know if work will allow me much time to post again before day is over. I wrote it yesterday, after reading the post I quote that I say blew my mind, and haven't changed it since.I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?
« Reply #296 on: Today at 11:32:39 am »flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?TolyK: You seem relatively happy to jump on the Flabort wagon. What makes Flabort's role talk more dangerous to the town or more scummy than everyone else's?« Reply #316 on: Today at 03:55:22 pm »There was a flabort wagon? When I voted?
As far as I remember, when I voted flabort with a random vote people were taking about millers...
TolyK, your answer just blew my mind.
That I can see, you've voted once this entire game. 4.5 hours before being asked about your vote. Yours was the second vote on flabort, and there's 4 votes now.
I don't see a flabort wagon, though one may have begun; momentum can happen. notquitethere seems concerned about a possible flabort wagon too.
TolyK: I find your contribution to the flabort wagon troubling. You voted for flabort (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563668#msg5563668) for his apparent effort to give away his role name. How is this scummy?I was... second on the bandwagon. I voted him with minimal evidence to pressure vote him and hopefully get more out of him. Evidently, he has incriminated himself even more.
Quote from: Jack A T
Later, you, when asked to explain your "shooting from the hip" targets (which did not include flabort), came out with this:He's worth the vote for rolefishing, and now even more for causing a bull fight to save his own skin, and even more for being very defensive and OMGUS-ing Nerjin. (SORRY TIRUIN FOR TERM MISUSE :P)@jack I hipfire horribly, so those are more or less random picks. They're the names that came up after more or less re-skimming though the material....but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?
Flabort, who I've already voted, had since taken the front scene.
Quote from: Jack A T
Since that post, you've taken a few (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564339#msg5564339) short jabs at (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564477#msg5564477) flabort, but have never really brought together a case against him. You're sort of sitting back on the bandwagon.a) It continues the pressure, andMost of my case on Flabort:...And? What makes this scummy?This is obviously not a satisfactory answer, since you typically play to win as well, and this could be detrimental to that fact.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?Because it's fun.
b) This is scummy because, as it seems to me, he's trying to increase the chaos in the game this way. It's a probable explanation, as well as what he is doing now.
I typically PFP, so please excuse not quoting and such completely.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 02:47:12 pm
Well um...Also, Flabort, you can revive several times?4maskwolf: Darvi, BYOR 7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81714.msg2323871#msg2323871) However, there, the revives were limited more strongly and each death (which would happen at least once a cycle after the first kill) would drain him of the ability to use his other powers/his other powers would drain his life.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like something Wuba would give a townie.Someone day killed me. A day kill is not a town power.flabort: Dariush, BYOR 8. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99587.msg3024926#msg3024926)
Did Wuba scale down how powerful the roles were, or was I just given a weak role? I'm specifically looking at Dariush's role: immune to kills and can cause all powers targeting someone else to target him? Impressive... Unlike my rather unimpressive role (at least powerwise).
Post by: Toaster on August 14, 2014, 02:56:11 pm
I was... second on the bandwagon.
This does not excuse you from the bandwagoning charge.
You missed my post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)
4mask:
Did Wuba scale down how powerful the roles were, or was I just given a weak role? I'm specifically looking at Dariush's role: immune to kills and can cause all powers targeting someone else to target him? Impressive... Unlike my rather unimpressive role (at least powerwise).
Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities.
A lot of oddball town roles exist as counters to specific scum roles, as well as seemingly powerful ones having counters. Like that Kefka role posted earlier; scum had some revive power that game, and one had a roleswap that could simply steal it. Plus, there was a town 50% magnet for all kills.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 03:18:18 pm
*NQT, aside from the Tiruin scuffle, has largely contributed in a way that could easily be replaced by an NQTbot that occasionally pops up to tell us to stop voting for an active player and vote for an inactive one. Which feels wrong, considering that would be, in most circumstances, just a bad caricature of him. He gives me the feel of someone coasting through the game, not engaging with the cases he opposes and not making cases against the people he says he wants to lynch. He seems to be, to put it simply, not quite here.This is exactly the case. I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other things. Now CYOM2 has ended, I'm going to give this more focus, starting with tonight... I've survived until Day 2 which means *rolls up sleeves in real life* time for some analysis.
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 03:22:43 pm
TolyK:I currently don't suspect anyone but Flabort, but I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.flabort, why are you giving your role name away to people (slowly but surely)?
This is the sum total of your vote history. Beyond that, I can't really find you pursuing targets with any real interest. Who do you suspect now and why? Does your suspicion of Flabort still hold?
I do think I know who isn't scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 04:08:56 pm
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 04:09:33 pm
I'm certainly suspicious of Cheetar, but Flabort shows himself to be much more scummy by this play in my book. I suppose you could say I agree with Cheetar, but only on a superficial level.
Huh.
Ok, so you are coming up with the same answer as Cheeetar, but for different reasons then, thus only 'superficially agreeing' with Cheeetar?
Please explain your reasons.
Cheeetar:
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.
When you typed this, did you have -any- consideration or concern for arsonist, conversion, or other negative things that may have happened in place of a N1 kill, or was 'no kill=good, pro-Town play' the only thing you considered?
TolyK:
I might be able to confirm a townie.
Why did you tell us this?
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?
Cheeetar:
Cheeetar, if another player had made the choice you did at the end of D1, what questions would you want to ask that player? Do you consider 'acting to save oneself' to be appropriate for every player under every condition of high pressure/immediate threat of death?
Not for every circumstance, but if a townie is given a choice between themselves dying and somebody else who they don't really know anything about yet dying, the townie should probably pick the other dude. Is this a controversial view?
I bolded the question you failed to answer.
In addition to still wanting it answered, I also want an explanation of why you completely ignored that question when you answered me.
You ask in turn 'Is this a controversial view', and you ask it while you are engaged in a debate with multiple people discussing views very counter to what you expressed. So I say that the answer is clearly yes. So clearly, I also ask you in turn, why did you ask me if it was a controversial view?
flabort:
Your first attempt to use your double vote:
No, my one-shot is Vote-ato, and I'll prove that it's not clearing the board by simultaneously voting Cheeetar and Shakerag.
What did you believe the board would look like at that point? And/or did you believe that the game was already over at this point, with both Cheeetar and Shakerag hammered? If not, why not?
At that point, votecount showed you still voting for Cheeetar only. So:
Oh, yeah, and now I need to do both simultaneously it seems.
Cheetar, shakerag
Again, what did you believe the board would look like at that point? And/or did you believe that the game was already over at this point, with both Cheeetar and Shakerag hammered? If not, why not?
But votecount now showed you voting once for each of those people.
At that point, that is when you voted 8 times for both of those people.
Now, about your claimed intentions about those 8 votes.
B) Someone having more votes on them then me would make me safe.
C) I didn't want to be responsible for killing either of them if they wound up town.
D) I didn't want to cause a tie.
G) Whoever cast the hammer vote would come under suspicion from the whole town.
Therefor, while it was a hasty and self-preserving action, there was plenty of reason behind it and I believed it would help town.
You had 2 votes on you. You state that someone having more votes on them than you would make you safe. You claim that whomever cast the hammer would come under suspicion of the whole Town. You claim you had plenty of reason behind what you did.
Any number of votes more than 2 would 'make you safe' by the logic you used, -and- you clearly can change your votecount at will; you had done so with your multi-votes once already. Why did you immediately move to 8 votes, a completely loaded hammer-gun, instead of a lower votecount that you remained capable of changing at will if you later found it necessary or useful?
Furthermore, you -knew- you had this ability. How could you feel frightened of or threatened at all by having 2 votes on you? You had the power to instantly change that at any time. Extension had already happened, day end wasn't going to be for 2 more days. You were very, very far from a hammer and online. Explain in detail please, how you felt any fear or urgency in this situation. You appear to me to have held every card and complete control over the votecount needed to protect yourself at any point.
IronyOwl:
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?
I was online and watching at the time. I did not hammer, though I also had no idea if a hammer was actually possible until after Cheeetar had hammered (I did not know if flabort's votes had a measure or not, I was not sure what was going on. My last refresh before the hammer was before wubba posted the votecount showing the 8 votes on each). Had I seen the votecount, I would not have hammered.
If I had been picked to be one of the targets of the prisoner's dilema, I'm not sure what I would have done on the spot. I've never seen a situation like this before; I did not view it 'one or both of those players is about to be killed' until it happened; I've little previous experience with hammers. This has been a great chance to think about it and decide. I think I would have been quite calm and discussing matters as I understood them - I didn't really understand hammer at that point.
Now that I -know- that Cheeetar would instantly kill if in a situation where he could instantly die, if I were balanced against Cheeetar, this is what I would do:
If I did not have a highly useful night ability, I would attempt to discuss and wait, and probably try to talk flabort into changing the situation to allow more discussion and less risk of instant death, reminding that he can always change it back when the talking is done.
If I had a highly useful night ability, one that I believed the use of would tremendously benefit Town, and it was -Cheeetar- I was balanced against (I know I have no time in that case, for Cheeetar will instantly vote me the first moment he is aware of the choice, it for sure is a race measured in seconds), I would try to kill Cheeetar and save my use of the night ability. I would use it and pray I lived long enough into the night for it to take affect; when day came if I was still alive I would fullclaim, explain my reasoning, accept and agree that my actions were absolutely suspicious, and spend that day scumhunting. Maybe I could help uncover useful clues for my team; for sure I would put a ton of effort into doing so and into clearing the mud I'd added to the water by my actions.
Varee:
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Do you need explicit consent to target someone for that house? You had said you wanted to know who would get the house. Why didn't you target someone specifically so you would know who got it?
Toaster:
A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Why did you specify 'If you're town' in that question? If he could have hammered everyone, there's extremely few roles he could possibly have where he would not win by hammering everyone but himself (ironically, the something-ally roles are among those).
What was the purpose of this very odd question, and why do you think this is a 'better question'?
Post by: TolyK on August 14, 2014, 04:59:11 pm
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
However, causing this scenario to happen is very scummy. As I already said, and so did others.
Re-voting Flabort if I don't find anything end noteworthy.
Imp, I said it to attract the scum kill, obviously. Depends on how much they want to WIFOM, to be honest.
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 05:19:42 pm
Imp, I said it to attract the scum kill, obviously. Depends on how much they want to WIFOM, to be honest.
Thanks. Why did you only answer one of my questions? Here's a repost of the unanswered one.
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 05:21:47 pm
TolyK:That's...Imp, I said it to attract the scum kill, obviously. Depends on how much they want to WIFOM, to be honest.
Thanks. Why did you only answer one of my questions? Here's a repost of the unanswered one.I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?
Mysteriousbluepuppet said that, not TolyK...
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 05:43:20 pm
That's...
Mysteriousbluepuppet said that, not TolyK...
Heh. Thank you, 4maskwolf. Trusted my incorrect formatting way and didn't re-read myself.
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?[/quote]
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 05:47:52 pm
Who needs an SK?The sk-ally :D
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 05:51:19 pm
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
To answer my own question:
I believe that the arguments against Flabort have a lot of merit to them: they make good sense and fit with my philosophy of how townies should act. However, Flabort has burned his one-shot ability and we know how to get rid of him, so I think that we should get rid of someone who is a greater unknown but still (in my opinion) scummy.
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 05:54:23 pm
Are you serious?
Go after a greater unknown? Obviously we are each really certain that he's scum. Why in the hell would we go after someone else that we think isn't as scummy?
"Oh dear, I think Vector is scum! I better vote Wuba!"
Explain why that makes sense.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 05:57:00 pm
Okay, I'm not gonna roleplay this one either.Going after the greater unknown that is still scummy. I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scum, but I'd rather have the scum I know last another day than the scum whose powers I don't know, and who may not have burned any powerful one-shots they have. That's the reason my vote remains on Cheeetar.
Are you serious?
Go after a greater unknown? Obviously we are each really certain that he's scum. Why in the hell would we go after someone else that we think isn't as scummy?
"Oh dear, I think Vector is scum! I better vote Wuba!"
Explain why that makes sense.
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 05:58:46 pm
Explain again your case on Cheetar? He's scum because... Flabort essentially forced him to hammer vote?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 06:10:08 pm
Okay, I'm not gonna roleplay this one either.I'm giving MY rationale for why I believe that it is a better choice. I'm not trying to tell the town to vote him: I'm stating MY reasons for not voting Flabort and instead proposing another target. Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions), but I think that Flabort is scum as well and would be almost as happy with his lynch.
Are you serious?
Go after a greater unknown? Obviously we are each really certain that he's scum. Why in the hell would we go after someone else that we think isn't as scummy?
"Oh dear, I think Vector is scum! I better vote Wuba!"
Explain why that makes sense.
Yes... Because Flabort has told us all of their abilities.It's my contention that he did not have to hammer vote. I'm trying to get to the bottom of the logic that says "well, me and another person are at L-1, let's hammer him quickly". Because that makes no sense to me as town logic.
Explain again your case on Cheetar? He's scum because... Flabort essentially forced him to hammer vote?
Post by: Scripten on August 14, 2014, 06:10:57 pm
@Toaster: My thoughts on Varee have mostly shifted toward him being a little less talented with communication and I refocused elsewhere. As far as TolyK, I only had feeling that I was following before legitimate scumtells started showing up. Neither are cleared, but there's evidence out there and not following it would be folly on my part.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 06:11:42 pm
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
TolyK
I do think I know who isn't scum.Please enlighten us!
Varee
You've not done a damn thing all game besides flailing a bit and chatting about houses. Make a case!
MBP, yeah I get the fact you're replacing in and Jiokuy didn't even post, but your grace period is now up. Make a case!
Wolf, your play always sets off alarm bells for me but it's doing it double. Your Day 1 play was soft balls, soft balls everywhere. Like here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554942#msg5554942) where you drop a nascent case on Cheetah for another RVS question vote. Who's the worst player in the game right now?
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.
I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scumSo you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.
Jack, your playing fine. Do I have any outstanding questions from you?
Imp, you can be thorough when you want to be but who are you going to vote today?
Cheetah, your first case (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5552519#msg5552519)was nonsense and your play has continued to be self-serving since. Give us a reason not to hang you now.
Ironyowl, your flying just below the radar, with a damn narrow focus. I don't trust you. Tell me one thing that's happening in this game that I should be paying attention to.
Nerjin, behind your Presidential bluster you've been light on cases of substance. What do you think of the players that have received less attention like Irony, Imp, MPB?
Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.
Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?
Persus13, Scripten, I don't have anything to say to you two right now. Do you have anything to say to me?
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 06:23:23 pm
Nerjin, behind your Presidential bluster you've been light on cases of substance. What do you think of the players that have received less attention like Irony, Imp, MPB?
Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.
Light on... Are you... Have you READ my posts? I've been making post after post discussing [logically mind you] why Flabort is scum. As for those three? I don't have a read on them.
I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.
I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other things. Now CYOM2 has ended, I'm going to give this more focus, starting with tonight... I've survived until Day 2 which means *rolls up sleeves in real life* time for some analysis.
I don't see a case here. I see no analysis. I see a bunch of lame duck questions where you just sorta lob stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You've said, time and again, that you want to 'kill people who are coasting along'. That's fine and good. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SCUM ALREADY!!!
Should we just not lynch suspicious people, who are actively posting suspicious things, in favor of the people who aren't posting at all? That seems rather like coasting by to me.
Oh wait... You said that's something you're against!
Maybe make a case as for why we should ignore players like Flabort and instead focus on people who aren't posting anything one way or the other.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 14, 2014, 06:24:54 pm
This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
My suspicions of who?
Wolf, your play always sets off alarm bells for me but it's doing it double. Your Day 1 play was soft balls, soft balls everywhere. Like here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5554942#msg5554942) where you drop a nascent case on Cheetah for another RVS question vote. Who's the worst player in the game right now?Well, obviously I'm the worst player. I always am. But other than me... worst as in poor play or worst as in not doing anything worth a damn. Because I have two different answers, depending.Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scumSo you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.
When I say scum, I mean "anti-town". I'm pretty sure the two of them are NOT on the same team, or at least not knowingly. Flabort's play reminds me a little bit of Imperial Guardsmen's play in Supernatural 7, when he freaked out as sk and flailed wildly. My best guess is he is anti-town without backup.
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 06:39:19 pm
I'm fairly certain Wuba only let me change the votes because he was letting me slide and he had just clarified it to me by PM. He didn't say anything about actually being able to change it at will.
It may be clear to you how I had complete control over the situation, but I did not understand that I did at the time. It's fairly evident that I felt fear from two votes, because nobody else had gathered any after Nerjin reset the votes yet. I am a rather short-sighted person, using only the tools I perceive at the times I perceive them. I could not see the rest of the 48 hours going any better then the previous hours had, causing me to panic.
I don't see the rest of the game going well if you continue to lynch me.
Nerjin So if what I thought your case was is not your case, then what on earth is your case? Because if it's not my doublestandards and setting up the loaded guns, then I don't see what you're saying. To me, your denial of me being correct on that sounds like scum.
Also, that was NOT how much effort I was putting in; that is how much effort I was SHOWING.
FlabortObservation of the individuals, responses to tests (such as my name-calling), their reactions to events (Nerjin's subtle reaction to the daykill cinched the belief that it's his), vote analysis. More background work then abilities or question asking. Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Basically, giving everyone enough potatoes to bury themselves with and watching what they do with them.
PPE: For example Nerjin's post about how he has a null read on the three people you mentioned. I had manipulated him into ignoring most of the crowd in favor of tunnel visioning on me. Now that you bring them up, he dismisses them as nothing; he doesn't care about spreading out his scum-hunting, he doesn't care about those three. He feels that they are inconsequential to his goal as scum.
Or 4mask's post in reply to Scripten, or more specifically Scripten's post that 4mask is replying to. It shows that 4mask is at large falsely suspect by Scripten, who is also tunnel-visioning, but on less of a scale, in order to further his own goals. Showing that Scripten is possibly a survivor, watcher, or lyncher, if he isn't aligned with Nerjin.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 06:44:13 pm
Light on... Are you... Have you READ my posts? I've been making post after post discussing [logically mind you] why Flabort is scum. As for those three? I don't have a read on them.Yeah, what I'm saying is you've been very tunnely. Now you'll be super vindicated if Flabort does flip scum, but if he doesn't you'll have wasted two days ignoring everyone else.
I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.Quite the contrary, I admitted I'd not been giving this game my full focus. I've still managed to develop a few lines of suspicion. I gave Tiruin's claim a good grilling and I'm beginning to get back on track again.
I don't see a case here. I see no analysis. I see a bunch of lame duck questions where you just sorta lob stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You've said, time and again, that you want to 'kill people who are coasting along'. That's fine and good. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SCUM ALREADY!!!Flabort's at L-1, I'm not going to hammer him right now. So I'm questioning him. I'm developing cases, sure my cases are mostly such-and-such a player is not really contributing but being unable to form suspicions and place votes outside of RVS is the big scum tell. I've looked over a lot of games to ascertain this. But I'm glad you're getting riled up. Says good things about your engagement. You've got a lot of investment in this.
Should we just not lynch suspicious people, who are actively posting suspicious things, in favor of the people who aren't posting at all? That seems rather like coasting by to me.
Maybe make a case as for why we should ignore players like Flabort and instead focus on people who aren't posting anything one way or the other.It's more that, I don't want to focus solely on Flabort. Manipulating the attention of the town is how scum survive until the mid to late game with very little scrutiny. Also, I believe Flabort's power claims, so killing him would net me less info than someone else.
Tiruin, now that you've acquainted yourself with what happened, what's your take on Flaborts Day 1 behaviour?
Wolf, yeah that's not a bad comparison. But look, Cheetah is most likely not scum. He's got the most posts in the whole game. He makes cases. He came off badly at the end of Day 1, but you can't really think he's coming off worst in either sense, right?
Flabort, I'd like to see that vote analysis if it really exists. Are you taking notes? Without providing evidence for these claims (linked posts etc.) I can only conclude you're pulling them out of thin air to make you seem more observant than you have been. If you have been taking notes, give us a screenshot of your spreadsheet.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 06:56:13 pm
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Excellent! Now we know who everyone is- we confirm that you're telling the truth by lynching you, and we can then lynch and vig the third parties and scum. Flabort should be happy to be lynched in this circumstance, right?
Would you agree, Irony Owl?
Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
Appealing to your own meta from a game in which you lost and people were angry about your bussing? I'm not falling for it, 4maskwolf.
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on August 14, 2014, 07:04:39 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - 4maskwolf, IronyOwl,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Tiruin,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin - flabort,
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten - Toaster,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee - notquitethere,
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, TolyK, Varee, Jack A T,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 07:44:18 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 07:47:48 pm
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?As was TolyK. So I'd like him to answer the same question.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 14, 2014, 08:03:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
flabort:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
TolyK:
I missed this.What? How does that follow?Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
4mask:
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?I think they're pretty solid in general, though I strongly disagree with the "everything Cheeetar did is flabort's fault because he had absolutely no choice" line of reasoning. It also loosely feels like there's something more bold about flabort's panicking than Cheeetar's, which pushes my own suspicions closer to Cheeetar.
I think Cheeetar's the better lynch because he's been openly and unabashedly self-serving to a much greater degree. To some extent that's probably just because he's opened his mouth more, but he's displayed absolutely zero shame or remorse for what he did, and tried to justify it retroactively with the fact that Shakerag wasn't town. flabort at least acknowledges that what he did was panicky and desperate and probably not a great idea at least in the long run, and gets the actual points for correctly guessing at least one of his targets.
Which I mean, I feel like I could almost make a whole separate point about. flabort hasn't gone particularly overboard in saying "BOOYAH I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG SUCK IT BITCHES RIGHT MOVE RIGHT MOVE AWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAAH!" Cheeetar clearly has; every time he opens his mouth, he can't help but gloat over how fortunate we are to have killed an SK Ally and/or how right he was to quicklynch because Shak wasn't town and therefore would have done the same. Even ignoring the rather obvious issue of knowing that what he did wasn't townlike because he knows nontown would have been more likely to do it, he's reveling in something he had absolutely no intentional hand in, whereas the person who actually pinpointed scum seems to know it wasn't a great move he can use as an omnishield against any and all suspicion.
On the other hand, of course, flabort's talk of being functionally invincible doesn't sit well with me.
NQT:
Ironyowl, your flying just below the radar, with a damn narrow focus. I don't trust you. Tell me one thing that's happening in this game that I should be paying attention to.You seem to have covered all the ones I know of. Cheeetar's being incredibly self-serving, flabort's crashing and burning, Varee's being useless and I haven't had a chance to go back and see how normal that is...
Conversely, thank you for reminding me that Silthuri exists.
Spoiler: On The Nature of Cowardice (click to show/hide)
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 08:20:13 pm
Hmmm... so I'm not at T-1 like suspected, but T-4. That's some nice subtle manipulation yourself, there, NQT. A bit of a lie, too, but it could be a mistake.
flabort:Because I thought the win-con on a SK-ally was impossible to fulfill, forgetting that it's possible after death.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I guess they shouldn't except that I've put more thought into my actions today.
Because I didn't know for sure at the time, just largely suspected, and I didn't want to be wrong and pick the wrong one. It's like choosing between Door 1 and Door 2, when one of three doors has a flood of acid behind it; you don't pick door three, because you've been told what's behind it is worth less then the other two already. Anyways, where the metaphor breaks and trying to fix it doesn't matter, I didn't know for sure at the time if I'd get it wrong, and didn't know I could pick both.
Then I compiled my notes and did a vote analysis. And knew that I was wrong about him being a misguided towny.
NotQuiteThere: I didn't keep them on the computer, and I lack a scanner at the moment, but I can copy a cleaned up summary of the analyisis (started a bit too late I admit) to this spoiler for you:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
((I have to note that communism, in it's pure form, is for the good of all, and capitalism is for the good of the individual; Nerjin is just disguising this fact with 'MERICA; Not saying I am scum like he's trying to imply, just saying that communism was designed the way the town faction is supposed to work))
Post by: Nerjin on August 14, 2014, 08:22:14 pm
Post by: notquitethere on August 14, 2014, 08:27:27 pm
Hmmm... so I'm not at T-1 like suspected, but T-4. That's some nice subtle manipulation yourself, there, NQT. A bit of a lie, too, but it could be a mistake.Honest mistake. You had eight votes on you according to the lurker tracker, and I'd already discounted Shakerag's. Turned out a few more of them were from Day 1.
NotQuiteThere: I didn't keep them on the computer, and I lack a scanner at the moment, but I can copy a cleaned up summary of the analyisis (started a bit too late I admit) to this spoiler for you:Thanks! It's good to see you've put in the work. I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere. So, by your own analysis, Nerjin is hardly the scummiest player. He's tunnelling you sure, but is your vote anything other than an OMGUS?
Post by: Imp on August 14, 2014, 08:35:47 pm
Wanted more detail about this, notquitethere:
I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere.
Do you mean false as in his reasoning was genuine, but conclusions inaccurate, or false as in you think he's making up his conclusions and lying about what he claims to think?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 08:43:22 pm
Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)
If you're just going to keep attacking my character rather than what I've done (or continually misrepresent what happened), we're done, Irony Owl. You're not going to convince me to stop voting for Flabort, whatever strange reason it is you don't want him to be lynched I do not care about- he's scum, or at least anti-town.
Post by: Persus13 on August 14, 2014, 08:55:13 pm
You going to anything in this game, besides argue with each other?
IronyOwl: You realize it's entirely possible that Cheeetar could be an alignment that isn't mafia or town and revolves around him surviving. SO your comment that he has to be scum isn't necessarily true.
Varee, Slithuri:
Are you still playing?
Persus13, Scripten, I don't have anything to say to you two right now. Do you have anything to say to me?Yeah, I asked you some questions, one of them being a comment on you being really lenient this game. Can you answer or point to the post where you answered that?
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?Trying to duck responsibility for lynching his top suspects, and acting extremely panicky D1. I believe he's anti-town
Post by: Varee on August 14, 2014, 09:13:07 pm
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 09:20:31 pm
4maskwolf What is your opinion on what he has done since Jack A T unvoted you?
Jack A T What do you think of 4mask now? You've been unusually quite about most issues, I'd think you'd have your feet wet instead of just your toes.
Imp I want a full analysis on Toaster from you. What he's done, what you think of that, how it affects you.
Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.
Varee How do you feel about Nerjin? What do you fear most about him?
Nerjin How has Varee done so far? Is he part of your team, in your opinion?
Cheeetar Could you tell me more about Persus?
Persus What about Cheeetar is redeeming? What about him is condemning?
IronyOwl When did you start ignoring Jiokuy/MysteriousBluePuppet? What are you going to do to fix this?
MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 09:26:24 pm
And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
Cheeetar Could you tell me more about Persus?
Brevity is the soul of wit. He doesn't have the wall-o-text ability that many mafia players do, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think he has the right intentions in his heart (town read!)
Post by: flabort on August 14, 2014, 09:43:59 pm
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 14, 2014, 10:12:10 pm
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?
Also: I like how you said I was OMGUSing you in my vote on you, when you clearly mentioned that I voted you for a Shakerag vote.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 14, 2014, 10:53:03 pm
I'll say that a SK is pretty much a given in a large game like this one. You need it.
Please explain why an SK is needed in a large game like this one. Who needs an SK?[/quote]
[/quote]
Bizarelly, Town. A SK has VERY low chances of winning a game. Like, forget about it, unless he has an overpowered role. Most of the game come down to individual lynches, until either town his overwhelming and can simply cop and outvote everyone, protect it's stuff, etc OR scum get ahead and can basically vote someone down by force of number. in either case, an Sk becomes a bit of a balancer, since his killings statistically will affect the dominant party more often.
As an example. If you get a 17 man game like this one with say a 4 man scumteam. If in the first few day town find a scum, scum is almost statistically dead. Unless town fucks up hard, town has got it, and Scum will have trouble using it's best weapon ( the lynch knowledge) to get ahead. But if there is an Sk, his killings will add up, and weaken town much faster, give them a chance later down the line.
In the inverse situation, a mafia dominated game is basically unbreakable around lylo (often WAY before, if they know what they are doing) if you don't have kill power around. Sk brings that.
I see it like that, Mafia is too prone to snowballing to go without either 3rd party killers or stuff like Cults.
Quote
MysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.
Quote
MBP, yeah I get the fact you're replacing in and Jiokuy didn't even post, but your grace period is now up. Make a case!Still getting up to speed. The fact this day started while i was doing a graveyard shift back to back ain't helping it. Right now i see people getting all up on Flabort wich is understandable yet reeks of bussing ( When scum all vote a guy to look neat, my terms are rusty. Correct me if wrong). Flabort already revealed his role, so personally i'd wait maybe a day. He'll probably be pelted by cops and disables.
If i missed something point it out, else i'm gone for my first nap in 39 hours
Post by: Scripten on August 14, 2014, 11:51:10 pm
Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.
Looks town to me. So far I've seen mostly vanilla scumhunting from him. (Her? I saw a her before, but that might've been a typo.) It's a really big game, and I'll admit to being overwhelmed and outpaced by many of you. Imp seems to be holding their own, though I haven't seen anyone make a serious play toward them.
Now, mind explaining why you felt the need to derail people onto others to break up the concerted push toward yourself? I dislike deflection without reason. If you want to scumhunt, then do so, but don't try to defend yourself by slaving us to your purpose.
Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.
Post by: flabort on August 15, 2014, 12:17:42 am
Post before last.And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other, I think it's time to bring people to each other's attention.
You did that at some point? I'm not seeing it.
I don't see any 'subtle manipulation' mentioned at all. Maybe it was too subtle for even you to explain normally?
Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.
This response feels a bit lacking, but is about what I expected from MBP at this time. However, MBP, I expect you will think about this question and give a longer answer later.QuoteMysteriousBluePuppet How do you feel about IronyOwl?Nothing particular. I played with him a few years back. Looks like a stand-up fella.
This response tells me that you haven't had much time yet to get any coherence together, and are only starting to piece together perceptions. It also tells me you are probably town.
This response is also what I expected. Except for the abbr.Scripten Tell me what you can about Imp so far.
Looks town to me. So far I've seen mostly vanilla scumhunting from him. (Her? I saw a her before, but that might've been a typo.) It's a really big game, and I'll admit to being overwhelmed and outpaced by many of you. Imp seems to be holding their own, though I haven't seen anyone make a serious play toward them.
Now, mind explaining why you felt the need to derail people onto others to break up the concerted push toward yourself? I dislike deflection without reason. If you want to scumhunt, then do so, but don't try to defend yourself by slaving us to your purpose.
Yes, it is a big game, and it's hard to keep track of who's keeping track of who. I agree with you on the point that Imp hasn't been making any game-changing moves and nobodies made any moves on Imp; the way you put it, though, "holding their own", is not what is traditionally considered a tell, but lets me know more then you'd think.
The way you consider these questions to be derailment is also concerning. Derailment is what I did to gain attention, this is more like rerailment. I admit this response of yours does nothing to further my case on you, but it's par for the course; it does nothing to make anyone else less suspicious.
The way I see it, I narrowed everyone's focus by getting as much attention as I could. I let this simmer, and planted clues. As soon as people's focus expands, which I'm doing with these questions, these clues will sprout and reveal which potatoes are rotten, and which are genuine. Your claiming of my "deflection" being for "no reason" is a rotten potato. You are rotten at your core, Scripten, and you, among others, need to be thrown out to compost.
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 01:43:28 am
TolyK:Unless you make the first move, others make the first move. The outcome heavily depends on who moves first. Agreeing amongst everyone to not lynch is nearly impossible (though hammering would be incriminating to people not on the hammering block), while having the other person hammer you is bad for whatever alignment because they might not br (or are definitely not) your alignment, and given everyone being more or less equal in terms of power, hammering would be the optimal choice in both game theory and statistics.I missed this.What? How does that follow?Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
@question to spill the beans on townies:
I could, if you want. Bread crumbs are harder to do. But I don't know enough townies yet, and an not sure if them all.
Post by: Jack A T on August 15, 2014, 01:50:45 am
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?4maskwolf: Flabort's most likely scum of some variety (mafia or third party). However, he's getting close to a hammer and I'd rather avoid hammering early D2, particularly against someone who is less likely to die when lynched than most players. Also, I'm leaning third party on him (powers seem a bit much for the mafia), and would rather catch the mafia.
Do you have any suspects other than Cheeetar and flabort? If so, why do you suspect them? If you don't have any other suspects, why not? How have your Day 1 suspicions held up?
Jack, your playing fine. Do I have any outstanding questions from you?NQT: No. Let's make a couple. What do you think of Cheeetar's reasons not to lynch him? Are your reads of Persus and Scripten null?
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?I'm not willing, at this time, to vote Flabort. He's my top suspect, but I wish to avoid drawing us close to a hammer this early in the day. With regards to other players, I had not had the chance to do a good examination of those who had caught my attention when I first posted today (bad headache, bad internet...), and decided to leave my vote for when I could place it effectively.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.flabort: Lovely. A quadruple OMGUS sans evidence. Cut the posturing.
And because I've put up those notes and revealed my act of subtly manipulating people to not notice each other,Cut the bad jokes too.
Jack A T What do you think of 4mask now? You've been unusually quite about most issues, I'd think you'd have your feet wet instead of just your toes.4mask has improved significantly this game since his Day 1 slump, and his attitude appears to have changed for the better. He's begun scumhunting semi-effectively, with some reasonably good work with Cheeetar. Problem is, that's been his only real target for scumhunting today, and he hasn't done much of it. Mild scum read.
Why try to get the pairs/trio you chose to focus on each other? Why those specific pairs/the specific trio? Why this sudden push to change where people are focusing?
PPE: Cut the bravado as well.
IronyOwl: Please summarize your case against Cheeetar.
In hindsight? Of course I'm glad he did what he did- he killed a SK ally and he outed himself as scum (in my eyes) because of his terrible reasoning for what he did.Cheeetar: Would it be correct to say that you consider flabort to be fully to blame for the Shakerag lynch? Also, please summarize your defense against IronyOwl.
MysteriousBluePuppet: Great to see you again. If you had been in the position of Cheeetar or Shakerag at the end of Day 1, what would you have done? What are your reads? How, if at all, does Flabort's claimed Latvian Dream (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5568283#msg5568283) power play into your idea of how to deal with Flabort?
Imp: You talk a lot, but I don't see much in the way of stances on issues from you. Reads?
Nerjin: Now this is quite the reaction (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573320#msg5573320). In response to a small jab about your cases, you snap at NQT and spend several lines accusing him of hypocrisy. And best of all...
I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job....you drag in an element you should know to be untrue. I say you should know because the very next thing in your post is you seemingly selectively quoting much of the post that proves the above assertion false. I say "seemingly selectively quoting" because you omitted only the part that proves your accusation false.
So. Would you be so kind as to tell me what it is about the attention of NQT that so scares you? Would you mind explaining the assertion that NQT believes himself to have done an excellent job this game?
I was... second on the bandwagon. I voted him with minimal evidence to pressure vote him and hopefully get more out of him. Evidently, he has incriminated himself even more.TolyK: See, I don't have a problem with when you joined the wagon. What I have a problem with, TolyK, is how you contributed, not when you joined. You came in, voted flabort with minimal evidence (you say it was a pressure vote), and then mostly just sat back and watched. You were part of the push, but not really participating in the push. Your vote was there, but little more. And when that's basically all your scumhunting so far, there's something wrong.
It is good to see this strong statement of your opinion. Flabort, you say, is very much worth your vote.Quote from: Jack A T...but what do you think? Why do you think he is worth your vote?He's worth the vote for rolefishing, and now even more for causing a bull fight to save his own skin, and even more for being very defensive and OMGUS-ing Nerjin.
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, TolyK, Varee, Jack A TSo much so that you're not voting for him. Or, for that matter, anyone. Why are you sitting back and coasting through the game with little scumhunting? Why is your only vote so far in this entire game such a halfhearted one? Why are you not voting the person you say is very much worth your vote?
I do think I know who isn't scum.
@question to spill the beans on townies:...Huh? What information do you feel comfortable giving about this?
I could, if you want. Bread crumbs are harder to do. But I don't know enough townies yet, and an not sure if them all.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 15, 2014, 02:21:04 am
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 03:32:26 am
Jack, I am using the same logic that you are for not voting, if you read my other posts. I was busy finishing up CYOM at the beginning, and I haven't yet done my grand reread yet, either. SoonTM
Post by: Imp on August 15, 2014, 06:58:29 am
I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Did you elaborate on this already, or change your mind about it?
IronyOwl:
He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively.
The bolded part of your logic trail loses me. How can you describe preparations that puts a hammer in the hands of any single individual who acts first to be given 'to the town collectively'? This also seems to clash with other things you said. Why'd you include that sentence?
notquitethere:
I'd rather lynch Toaster, who's yet to place a vote despite saying he will (ok, in fairness, the quicklynch probably happened before he got a chance). I want to see whether he's able to press a case today.
What happened to your follow up with this, NQT? I remember you feel that having multiple suspicions and both voting and changing one's vote is a very town thing to do.
Toaster's next post answers someone else's question and asks this:
A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Followed soon after by a post with more content, including the line to NQT:
So for reals, who do you suspect and why?
Toaster makes 3 more smallish posts, offering comparisons to earlier BYOR games and making a couple of single sentence pressure maintainers to flabort and TolyK.
NQT, you respond (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572797#msg5572797) to Jack A T, talking about having been overwhelmed (know the feeling) and how it's time for analysis now.
The next post has a vote for Varee and a one liner for Toaster:
Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?
Please explain why you voted for Toaster D1 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
Varee:
Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Would you explain yourself if we asked you to, or is teasing and evading the only answering you are prepared to offer?
Just in case you answer, why are you now discussing the 'house' as a possible downgrade to 'toilet' or something? Implying you dumped on someone?
Jack A T:
Well. Two of us lynched what was probably the best possible lynch target D1 based on less than no evidence.
Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?
TolyK:
I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?
I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.
What blew my mind was your use of language and timing. People had mostly stopped talking about millers for over a day at the time you voted, so when you voted, no, people weren't talking about millers. That combined with your use of past tense, 'as far as I remember', 'when I voted', and 'random vote', to me that sounded like an attempt to make your 4.5 hour old vote sound like something from over a day before, back when people were talking about millers and when random votes were the only votes there were.
I didn't take your vote for a random vote at all; you even gave it a reason that didn't sound random in the slightest, for all it was a one-liner.
Given that you're not reading 'the whole thread', I guess you just grabbed bits of stuff that caught your eye while you skimmed, and you randomly grabbed flabbort's talk about his role as something to vote and ask about? And you honestly meant what you said, 'people still talking about millers', because to you they were, you hadn't bothered to track the thread for over a day, really, so you just assumed that was still a topic?
4maskwolf:
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
To me the main issue in 'should flabort be lynched, and should he be lynched D2' revolve around balancing the fairly clear feel of 'Town' I was getting from interaction with him against his actual visible use of abilities. I have an analysis of that and his playstyle partially typed up but I am way to tired to finish it tonight. I actually still think Varee is the scummiest person in play, but I think we all still have a lot to discuss today and Varee has largely decided to only participate in fragments of discussion that appeal to him, so I'm expecting I'm going to simply offer my case against Varee and if needed compromise vote to the scummiest possible lynch choice, if there is a choice as day-end nears.
notquitethere:
Imp, you can be thorough when you want to be but who are you going to vote today?
Still deciding on who to vote for. Day doesn't end for another almost 100 hours, that's plenty of time to gather more interactive information. If the day ended right now, I'd vote for Varee, understanding that flabort is probably being lynched instead. I really want to see more interaction before day ends, and there's quite a few questions I want to read answers to first.
I'm done for tonight, I have to sleep.
This post is incomplete; I haven't even answered all my questions yet. One's for my reads, I'd posted those, current as of then, about 12 hours before the hammer fell D1. They're in a spoiler labeled 'My reads' (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5566389#msg5566389) which might have made them hard to see. I'll provide an updated list of reads and get around to the rest of my questions when I have time, Saturday if not Friday.
Post by: Imp on August 15, 2014, 07:01:28 am
NQT:
Please explain why you voted for ToasterD1D2 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 07:19:43 am
TolyK:It was a random vote with pressure attached, a weak accusation to start a question barrage.I... don't understand what blows your mind. I voted, there were more votes behind me. I did not remember what exactly was happening 4.5 hours before. Is that what does it?Would you say you don't really follow the thread?I haven't read everything yet. I just said that.
What blew my mind was your use of language and timing. People had mostly stopped talking about millers for over a day at the time you voted, so when you voted, no, people weren't talking about millers. That combined with your use of past tense, 'as far as I remember', 'when I voted', and 'random vote', to me that sounded like an attempt to make your 4.5 hour old vote sound like something from over a day before, back when people were talking about millers and when random votes were the only votes there were.
I didn't take your vote for a random vote at all; you even gave it a reason that didn't sound random in the slightest, for all it was a one-liner.
Given that you're not reading 'the whole thread', I guess you just grabbed bits of stuff that caught your eye while you skimmed, and you randomly grabbed flabbort's talk about his role as something to vote and ask about? And you honestly meant what you said, 'people still talking about millers', because to you they were, you hadn't bothered to track the thread for over a day, really, so you just assumed that was still a topic?
And yes, you caught me, I really wasn't reading the thread back then. And unfortunately answering questions takes up a lot of time for me.
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 08:11:49 am
Spoiler: Proof (click to show/hide)
While Flabort seems to be taking a lot of risks for no reason, most notably telling parts of his role (even before the post I quoted, as it turns out) and then panicking and multi-voting several failed times. He is playing to save his own hide, which is very likely either a personality thing (though I haven't see that before from him) or a part of his alignment. He could very well be a survivor, watcher, or serial killer. Not likely scum, though, because it would be OP for a lylo breaking power like that.
Currently finished reading page 20 (for own reference).
Now, Flabort, did you use a night power, and who did you target? Don't say what you did exactly, just those two. If you prefer, you may refuse to answer, but given your playfulness I would guess you would want to comply. It could confirm or break a suspicion I have...
Post by: Nerjin on August 15, 2014, 08:30:58 am
Nerjin: Now this is quite the reaction (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573320#msg5573320). In response to a small jab about your cases, you snap at NQT and spend several lines accusing him of hypocrisy. And best of all...I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job....you drag in an element you should know to be untrue. I say you should know because the very next thing in your post is you seemingly selectively quoting much of the post that proves the above assertion false. I say "seemingly selectively quoting" because you omitted only the part that proves your accusation false.
So. Would you be so kind as to tell me what it is about the attention of NQT that so scares you? Would you mind explaining the assertion that NQT believes himself to have done an excellent job this game?
It was a personal reason. I'm afraid that I can't actually tell you why I snapped at NQT. His attention doesn't scare me. In fact, I don't really care one way or the other what he thinks about me. Silthuri's been having Real life problems and I've wanted to avoid mentioning it because it isn't really my place in this game. However he started getting on her and I kinda snapped.
Also, don't say "Seemingly Selective Quoting" when what you mean is "Selective Quoting". If you want to accuse me of something just accuse me of it and be done with this. There is never enough time in mafia to be beating around the bush like that.
@TolyK
Not likely scum, though, because it would be OP for a lylo breaking power like that.
I don't know about that. If your only reason for him being not-scum is because a Lylo breaking power... That's pretty weak. You're assuming that there isn't a counter to it. You're assuming that Scum simply CANNOT have powers that can break votes [They easily can]. You're also assuming that Wuba is infallible. He is human just like the rest of us. He could easily put a power in a game without fully grasping how powerful it is in practice.
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 08:41:37 am
And yes, I've been persecuting third parties in this game for several reasons.
- Wuba's BYOR's tend to have quite a few third parties
- Several points of behavior from various players do not fit with scum play, but neither do they fit town play
- We have a confirmed SK-ally, ffs.
- * CLASSIFIED *
Also, I will almost certainly be PFP this weekend, possibly longer.
Post by: notquitethere on August 15, 2014, 10:06:46 am
NQT:Well, he made a case in the interim, and his lack of engagement was what I'd voted him over and there were stronger candidates after that. In the early game, I see a large part of my mafia role in not only finding scum, but cajoling town players to play better (I'm not implying I play perfectly all the time myself, when I'm short on time my play suffers accordingly). He began a case on Scripten which showed at least a modicum of effort, effort that a few of the other players (like Varee) hadn't even managed. I didn't directly respond to his question (not deliberately, I was just looking at other things in my read through), but I answered it with my actions anyway.Please explain why you voted for ToasterD1D2 with the given reasons, then appear to so completely change direction in regards to him.
As for the analysis, I checked up on a few things (like whether Flabort had suspected Shakerag and Cheetah before he put them both at L-1) but there was nothing super-weighty on my first pass.
I only meant that he couldn't reliably draw such strong conclusions from such weak premises and so he's bound to be wrong about at least some of the claims.I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere.Do you mean false as in his reasoning was genuine, but conclusions inaccurate, or false as in you think he's making up his conclusions and lying about what he claims to think?
Persus
Yeah, I asked you some questions, one of them being a comment on you being really lenient this game. Can you answer or point to the post where you answered that?Some reasons that we use to sink our teeth into players aren't actual scumtells and it's important to recognise this to minimise false positives. On what point do you think I'm being too lenient?
MBP
Still getting up to speed. The fact this day started while i was doing a graveyard shift back to back ain't helping it. Right now i see people getting all up on Flabort wich is understandable yet reeks of bussing ( When scum all vote a guy to look neat, my terms are rusty. Correct me if wrong). Flabort already revealed his role, so personally i'd wait maybe a day. He'll probably be pelted by cops and disables.When you're all rested, I'd be interested to see who you'd think would make a better alternative right now.
Jack
NQT: No. Let's make a couple. What do you think of Cheeetar's reasons not to lynch him? Are your reads of Persus and Scripten null?Cheetah thinks he's nailed obvscum, what I think about that depends on what Cheetah's alignment is.
I'm not willing, at this time, to vote Flabort. He's my top suspect, but I wish to avoid drawing us close to a hammer this early in the day. With regards to other players, I had not had the chance to do a good examination of those who had caught my attention when I first posted today (bad headache, bad internet...), and decided to leave my vote for when I could place it effectively.That's reasonable enough I suppose. No need for another quickhammer.
Toly
And yes, I've been persecuting third parties in this game for several reasons.3rd party hunting is a typical 3rd party trait. Are you a 3rd party?
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 11:08:32 am
Post by: Varee on August 15, 2014, 11:13:05 am
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
This lead to two other possiblity
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 11:16:43 am
Wait, it does, actually.
Post by: Varee on August 15, 2014, 11:32:32 am
So Here is what happen last night. I tried build a house for toaster liek what flabort suggested. But form the other info, there a few thing that could have happen.
1 Toaster didnt get the power.
This can happen in two
1.1 Flabort did not target me or toaster as if he target one of us either he would also get the power or toaster would get the power
1.2 Flabort lied about his power( well this is the most likely thing that happen)
2Toaster got the power but he dont want to tell us (I dont think this happen)
3 I totally misunderstand my power..... ( I dont think it is this one too, It might not be a house but i am positive i built something.)
So for a few question that came up....
@Tolyk
Quote
we are in wuba houseyeah thqat kinda make sense and we all went to toilet so I think It might have been a toilet rather than a house. Not about dump or shit or other meaning toilet may refer too....
@Irony
Quote
If you were in shake situa blah blah blahWell If i was in that situation I think I would have done what cheetar did. I dont see it as selfish or anything but It survivor right? I dont think both guy have the reason to believe that the other is town or will likely help their wincon if they kill them self instead of hammering the other party. (I hope you guys understand this)
@Imp
Quote
Targeting someoneWell I was hoping on someone actually telling me what the freaking house do but it seem liek whoever got it is keeping quiet.... I Was going to make it sound Like i random the target so I can maybe figure out a lie or something.....
Quote
Voting flabort blah blah blahI Believe that lynching flabort is a waste of lynch.... He seem to just get back up. I have a feeling he is like an annoying role that wouldnt really die....
@flabort
Quote
neijinHis roleplaying is amusing but for his content and stuff... I have a feeling he have a day power or some thing about president order. I still doubt that he is really a president though.
Andddd For those who concern about me stalking or what ever term you use around here. Let say Am gathering information and I am sorry for lack of involvement.
Post by: flabort on August 15, 2014, 11:47:58 am
Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)
Bravado (Noun): a pretentious, swaggering display of courage.
Why getting people into groups? To expand their horizons, to expand their field of vision.
Why those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier.
Why this sudden push? I've actually been working on this the whole game, it's not sudden; perhaps you meant why do that all at once? To maximize the reads and information I get today.
Now, Flabort, did you use a night power, and who did you target? Don't say what you did exactly, just those two. If you prefer, you may refuse to answer, but given your playfulness I would guess you would want to comply. It could confirm or break a suspicion I have...Yes, Toaster.
Given what I have claimed as my only night power, though, I don't think Varee is telling the whole truth.
What two other possibilities?
I for sure targeted Toaster. I did not get targeted by your power as far as I can tell. I think it might be that it failed on Toaster, or you totally misunderstood your power, OR you lied about it.
No, I'm not. I'm hunting whoever I find easiest to hunt for me personally. Getting more bang for the buck, so to say.Careful. That's close to being lazy about hunting; being lazy about hunting is a scum tell. So be careful when you say things like that.
Yes yes yes, I understand you say you've done it. You haven't got much to back it up there, though.That's kind of difficult to prove without ruining the results. However, go back and take a look at some people you haven't been thinking about or dismissed as non-issues/town. Think about when you would have focused on them, and look to see if I have a post near that point; odds are, it's the post that starts people voting for me.
Post by: Varee on August 15, 2014, 12:08:36 pm
As flabot is immune too all power and if someone were to target toaster it should hit flabort too. Unless the pirtiy is kinda weird and weird thing happen if i and flabort both target toaster, at least flabort should get the power.
Still i find it hard to lynch flabort. Am pretty sure we cant kill him without atleast one othe player dying.
So if we need to kill him twice in a day. Assuming he got lynch and he use his power you would have to kill his target too to kill him unless someone can stop him from using power.... Which is unlkely as it would be a waste without a block
Post by: flabort on August 15, 2014, 12:20:12 pm
Assuming he got lynch and he use his power you would have to kill his target too to kill him unless someone can stop him from using power.... Which is unlkely as it would be a waste without a blockI like how you're talking about getting the mafia to help the town to kill me, or vice versa. Unless there's a vig, but that's an assumption that we can't make yet.
Basically, I like how you're asking opposed factions to work together to kill me. Unless what you mean by
Still i find it hard to lynch flabort.is that you don't want to kill me.
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 02:55:43 pm
Varee, how does your power decide who to give the house to? If you don't know, ask Wuba (privately).
Also, Flabort, maximizing personal utility is a bad idea? :p
Post by: flabort on August 15, 2014, 03:03:56 pm
And here is where I claimed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5568283#msg5568283).
Post by: TolyK on August 15, 2014, 03:15:16 pm
I have Latvian Dream (I barely understand where this power is coming from after a google search). Using it makes me immune to all incoming powers, but I need to select a target. Any powers targeting this target (was going to be Toaster) also target me. Also, the target's own powers are unblockable, unredirectable, unrandomizable, giving the target a power buff for that night.So, you targeted Toaster this night, which made him true-hit his target and made you invulnerable to actions other than those copied from Toaster.
Meanwhile Varee targeted Toaster with building-a-house, which gives a power (right?) to whoever he used it on. And it should've given both Toaster and you a power, which it didn't. Thus, he didn't actually hit you, which could be either lying, randomization, blocking, redirection.
Did anyone else target any of those three? Actually, those two who are not Flabort. Or if you know someone else targeted, but then don't say who.
Mystery almost solved.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 15, 2014, 08:38:20 pm
4maskwolf What is your opinion on what he has done since Jack A T unvoted you?Jack A T is one of the two people who I almost invariably end up reading as town. Frankly, I'll have to go back and look at what he's done. If people aren't directly engaging me, I tend not to notice their contributions as much.
...You could read my post(s) about why I suspect Cheeetar. However, his posts seem mostly well thought out and make sense, so I'm going to Unvote Cheeetar for now.Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.
What's this about one-trick pony? I know what the phrase means, but... what are you referencing?
Currently, no. Tomorrow, I'm going to go back, read the thread, and see if anything jumps out at me. Frankly, work has been hella busy this week and I haven't had much time to play mafia or to think things through.Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort? Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?4maskwolf: Flabort's most likely scum of some variety (mafia or third party). However, he's getting close to a hammer and I'd rather avoid hammering early D2, particularly against someone who is less likely to die when lynched than most players. Also, I'm leaning third party on him (powers seem a bit much for the mafia), and would rather catch the mafia.
Do you have any suspects other than Cheeetar and flabort? If so, why do you suspect them? If you don't have any other suspects, why not? How have your Day 1 suspicions held up?
4maskwolf:Bluh. Sorry, totally spaced on that promise.I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Did you elaborate on this already, or change your mind about it?
1. A protector protected the nightkill last night (quite possible).
2. A roleblocker roleblocked a killing role (also possible).
3. The killer(s) decided not to kill (unlikely).
4. All killing roles not affected by the above targeted someone who is immune/resistant to kills (highly unlikely, but possible).
Post by: Scripten on August 15, 2014, 09:13:38 pm
...You could read my post(s) about why I suspect Cheeetar. However, his posts seem mostly well thought out and make sense, so I'm going to Unvote Cheeetar for now.Basically, I'd rather see Cheeetar be lynched (unless he convinces me otherwise, or at the very least assuages my suspicions)
This. What suspicions of Cheetar? (I would have thought this was obvious, but my bad for not directly quoting you.) Also, last game was massively different form this one. Plus, if you were a one-trick pony, you wouldn't be so self-aware with regard to it. Your defense is weak.
What's this about one-trick pony? I know what the phrase means, but... what are you referencing?
I was hoping to not have to read through the thread again to find out what you were talking about. It kind of wastes my time, but whatevs. Isn't a big deal.
However, I'm a little surprised to have to explain what I meant by one-trick pony. You said that you played scum differently in another game. Then you went and used that as defense against my suspicions of you being scum in this game, as if you expected me to believe that you simultaneously play scum only one way and are aware of it. That's simply contradictory and thus a weak defense.
Post by: Varee on August 15, 2014, 09:20:32 pm
The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Post by: Silthuri on August 15, 2014, 09:27:53 pm
This is yesterday's stuff, but I feel the need to answer it regardless.
Silthuri:It was basically "Cheeetar's full of shit and scum" which can be attributed to "Cheeetar mistaken." That was the best thing I could come up with because I wasn't around to witness Flabort's stunt.
Can you point out specific things to me that said to you "Cheeetar is full of shit and is scum" as opposed to "Cheeetar is mistaken about things related to millers and night actions"? Because I'm not seeing it myself.
Flabort:
Silthuri What do you think of Tiruin's new claim?As with her miller claim, which was supposedly confirmed by Persus, I believe her. I'm really curious about her morphing role though...
4mask:
Alright, on to more serious things:I feel that Flabort is definitely not town. He put two people at one below hammer, claiming that whoever hammered would look scummy. He forced the hammer when he had a decent chance of not getting lynched in the first place. There was what... two votes on him? Then he starts claiming he knows who the SK and such are. Just... doesn't feel right. I'll try to go back and form a solid case before the Day ends.
Everyone voting Flabort: What are your points against him? What alignment do you believe him to be?
NQT:
Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.
Persus:
Barely, but yes.
Varee, Slithuri:
Are you still playing?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 15, 2014, 09:47:06 pm
MBP, you weren't in the game until the very end of Day 1. As such, you stand from a fairly neutral position. Were you at all reading the thread before you replaced in? Did you notice anything scummy, or would you be willing to read back on Day 1 and point out scum players that may have escaped attention?
Flabort, exactly how much of your subtle manipulation would you be willing to reveal to us, and do you understand that if you aren't able to show the subtle manipulation people may disbelieve you were doing such a thing in the first place?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 15, 2014, 10:40:45 pm
Basically, Flabort justification don't float much, but at the same time i can't see scum using an ability that powerfull this early. Late game that would have been devastating and would give scum a ''free'' day. Worth gold. From a action point of view, scummy. From a more ''meta'' view, ill advised>townie. The role claiming and throwing names around will need to be verified, too.
Varee
I've got a kind of tingle that reminds me of my arsonist. If you can't say what those ''powers'' are i'm not inclined to see them as beneficial.
Jack
Glad to see you agan, Jack. Been a long time.
NQH
With all the wall of text being thrown around, i can't say you guys aren't making this easy. In normal circomstances i mostly use vote history to catch the patterns, no dice here. Tolyk ''bang for the buck'' comment had me raise my eyebrow (yes, it's a mono). I'll have to ask him about it.
Hey TolykWhat's up about the ''bang for the buck'' thing ?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 15, 2014, 11:01:26 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 16, 2014, 02:04:39 am
I'm currently off doing stuff that isn't really mafia-hunting, but rather third-party-hunting, because that is my most effective use of time at the moment. That is what that post meant.
Also, I have a strong urge not to lynch Flabort if he agrees not to spew out random crap. Before I'm sure on this I'm waiting for a reply...
Post by: Tiruin on August 16, 2014, 02:16:51 am
Persus: Thanks for clarifying it back there--the misunderstanding >_< Will be completing my read in the next half-day.
Tiruin:Could you explain the orange part? My intuition had a bad ping after I thought about this.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.> I've gained a Filler Ability. Literally called such. Ihave a 50% chance to lose an ability while...I have that ability.That wasn't me.
As if its going to do anything anyway. :V
How did you test, and how did you check if the ability is gone?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 16, 2014, 10:22:21 am
I was hoping to not have to read through the thread again to find out what you were talking about. It kind of wastes my time, but whatevs. Isn't a big deal.I'm not a one trick pony, but that is one of the things I do as scum. If one of my scumbuddies messes up, I get them killed off. I wasn't refuting the point that I was scum, technically I was refuting the idea that Flabort and I knew we were on the same time, but that's an irrelevant distinction since the point I made is, as you have correctly pointed out, completely useless.
However, I'm a little surprised to have to explain what I meant by one-trick pony. You said that you played scum differently in another game. Then you went and used that as defense against my suspicions of you being scum in this game, as if you expected me to believe that you simultaneously play scum only one way and are aware of it. That's simply contradictory and thus a weak defense.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 16, 2014, 10:55:55 am
I was hoping to not have to read through the thread again to find out what you were talking about. It kind of wastes my time, but whatevs. Isn't a big deal.I'm not a one trick pony, but that is one of the things I do as scum. If one of my scumbuddies messes up, I get them killed off. I wasn't refuting the point that I was scum, technically I was refuting the idea that Flabort and I knew we were on the same time, but that's an irrelevant distinction since the point I made is, as you have correctly pointed out, completely useless.
However, I'm a little surprised to have to explain what I meant by one-trick pony. You said that you played scum differently in another game. Then you went and used that as defense against my suspicions of you being scum in this game, as if you expected me to believe that you simultaneously play scum only one way and are aware of it. That's simply contradictory and thus a weak defense.
In light of the fact that you've acknowledged your point is useless...
This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 16, 2014, 11:43:56 am
It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Post by: Scripten on August 16, 2014, 12:06:17 pm
It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Fair enough. That being said, you haven't really offered an alternative explanation. While life events are hardly something I could hold against you, it's a little ridiculous to think that such a slip is irrelevant. You seem to be supporting Flabort blindly and I'd like to know why, considering his actions are pretty damn scummy to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 16, 2014, 12:19:28 pm
Oh no, I think he is probably anti-town. I've stated as much several times. I've also stated the case that we should be looking for scum who haven't spent some of their abilities, to take them out before they can use said abilities. That's why my vote was on Cheeetar for a while: I thought both were anti-town, but I didn't know what Cheeetar had ability-wise so I thought it would be prudent to lynch him first.It was a useless and silly thing I did when I was already irritated by life events. I know this, and I've accepted it. Had I been thinking straight, I would realize that me saying that would be pointless and mean nothing.This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him. You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.
How do you feel about this?
Fair enough. That being said, you haven't really offered an alternative explanation. While life events are hardly something I could hold against you, it's a little ridiculous to think that such a slip is irrelevant. You seem to be supporting Flabort blindly and I'd like to know why, considering his actions are pretty damn scummy to me.
Post by: flabort on August 16, 2014, 12:35:07 pm
Flabort, exactly how much of your subtle manipulation would you be willing to reveal to us, and do you understand that if you aren't able to show the subtle manipulation people may disbelieve you were doing such a thing in the first place?I'm OK with them not believing it, because it would not be subtle if I was blatant about how I did it.
Also, I have a strong urge not to lynch Flabort if he agrees not to spew out random crap. Before I'm sure on this I'm waiting for a reply...What do you define as random crap?
So let me talk about the power without the fluffy non sense....So you have two powers. One that hits someone randomly, giving them a new power. And the other power lets you control who the random power hits?
The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Are you sure the second power works that way? Could you paraphrase these abilities for us?
Post by: IronyOwl on August 16, 2014, 01:38:48 pm
Spoiler: Cheeetar (click to show/hide)
IronyOwl, are you a lyncher?No. I want you dead as only a small part of my wincon.
Persus:
Cheeetar, IronyOwl:Haven't I?
You going to anything in this game, besides argue with each other?
IronyOwl: You realize it's entirely possible that Cheeetar could be an alignment that isn't mafia or town and revolves around him surviving. SO your comment that he has to be scum isn't necessarily true.
That's why I asked him about it. He claimed town, though, so either he's malicious or unnecessarily lying about it.
flabort:
IronyOwl When did you start ignoring Jiokuy/MysteriousBluePuppet? What are you going to do to fix this?Since game start. Nothing until he does something to warrant it, possibly including doing nothing for excessively long periods of time.
I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
TolyK:
Unless you make the first move, others make the first move. The outcome heavily depends on who moves first. Agreeing amongst everyone to not lynch is nearly impossible (though hammering would be incriminating to people not on the hammering block), while having the other person hammer you is bad for whatever alignment because they might not br (or are definitely not) your alignment, and given everyone being more or less equal in terms of power, hammering would be the optimal choice in both game theory and statistics.But you agree that hammering is incriminating. That seems to imply there's something unoptimal about it; not just from a suspicions standpoint, but regarding its worth to town and therefore odds of a townie performing it.
More directly, you discount the benefits to town from having a discussion about it rather than a race, understate the fractional alignment gains to town from the likelihood that the other person is town as well, and rely on circular "I have to do X or else he'll do X because he knows otherwise I'll do X" logic to describe the situation in general.
Jack A T:
IronyOwl: Please summarize your case against Cheeetar.He pulled an unabashedly self-serving, cowardly move with the hammer, and has since been completely and utterly unashamed of it, consistently and defensively dodged every attempt to question any aspect of it, and done very little since except defend himself as an utter victim with absolutely zero say in the matter far as I can tell.
Imp:
IronyOwl:Public decisions tend to fall under the purview of the game, and therefore largely and officially of the town, as a whole. It's true that anyone could have made the call, and in this case did, but most people, or at least most people not racing someone else, probably would have let it lie to discuss what to do about it rather than seizing it for themselves because they could.He had the good sense to set it up but not actually fire. If he'd panicked all the way, he could have just hammered a target, any target, all on his own. Instead he set up a loaded gun at each of two suspects, and left it up to everyone else as to which or any trigger they wanted to pull. Meaning, nominally, to the town collectively.
The bolded part of your logic trail loses me. How can you describe preparations that puts a hammer in the hands of any single individual who acts first to be given 'to the town collectively'? This also seems to clash with other things you said. Why'd you include that sentence?
Hence, town collectively. The specifics of this situation made that rather more tenuous and strongly pointed at two particular outcomes, hence nominally.
Post by: TolyK on August 16, 2014, 03:27:02 pm
@Irony: This was analyzed from the point of view of someone on the chopping block (one of the two), but you're right in that I missed some immediate benefits, as well as missing the fact that the first to post could say "NOBODY FREAKN HAMMR" etc.
It was a simplified model, yet I believe rightfully simplified.
Post by: flabort on August 16, 2014, 11:02:14 pm
I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.
@Flabort: Random crap would include blatant WIFOM, rolefishing, otherwise distracting town from lynching scum. Scum hunting is the opposite of random cap, in this discussion.OK, sure.
Quick post, since I just got home from a day-trip and it's already too late to go and do any major analysis. But something funny? I thought the day was going to end today, thinking today was Friday and the day ended Friday; I guess Monday is the day end.
So I'll make sure to do more tomorrow.
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 04:09:16 am
- Toaster 98%
- Tiruin 95%
- Flabort 75% if he keeps promise, 35% if not
- Varee 60%
I currently won't explain why, but. Yeah.
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 04:11:23 am
Post by: notquitethere on August 17, 2014, 04:30:06 am
Aw c'mon, TolyK. You've got to give some supporting reasons. Tiruin I think is probably legit, Varee is useless but yeah maybe on reflection not scum-useless. Toaster has struggled to muster a case and Flabort is super sketchy... why should we even care what percentages your pulling out?
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 06:09:25 am
Those with a high percentage are almost guaranteed to be town and should not be lynched, from my perspective. This stuff would be confirmed by my death or my confirmation from someone else. However, I'd prefer to get more info before dying... :P
Post by: notquitethere on August 17, 2014, 06:23:52 am
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 06:45:05 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 08:50:29 am
Do you intend us to take you at your word when you claim these things, or only after the death you feel is imminent?
Post by: Nerjin on August 17, 2014, 09:27:50 am
I'm claiming that I currently know more than you, and will likely know even more later. Quit trying to get me to say where I know it from, since I'm not going to say today. At least not planning on it.
So... You've decided that instead of telling us how you know these things you'll just paint a giant target on your back and take the secret to your grave. Am I understanding you correctly?
Otherwise, stating "I have a way to figure out scum and stuff but I won't reveal how." seems rather... Foolish.
Post by: Tiruin on August 17, 2014, 09:33:33 am
Sorry for my absence over the weekend. Had a family-time and then when I was free, that one B12 thread happened that had be divert my attention.
Extend? I'll make a post by Monday evening (my time, GMT +8).
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 17, 2014, 10:16:38 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 10:41:21 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 17, 2014, 10:54:52 am
No, but seriously, extend.
Post by: Varee on August 17, 2014, 11:05:08 am
From the day one thing that flabort got kill during extend i have a feeling that someone have an ability to kill when we vote extend.
Pisud mai dai
Post by: notquitethere on August 17, 2014, 11:28:55 am
Oh but NQT, you rascal, why are you trying to stifle discussion?
Drawn out days are bad for overall player morale. Town will perform better if the game doesn't slow to a crawl. I see this like I do boardgames where people are taking forever to take their move.
But you're not even voting Flabort!
Yeah you're right. Flabort, I think it's weird you haven't made any serious attempts to get to the bottom of the apparent day kill. Why would anyone want to kill you when you were about to be lynched? And why haven't they claimed?
Post by: flabort on August 17, 2014, 11:36:32 am
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.
Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Post by: Tiruin on August 17, 2014, 11:42:23 am
Is there any chance of the Flabort wagon being shifted with the extend? Are any of you actually going to make use of your extra time? I see a lot of knee-jerk extending on this forum. Oppose Extend, if possible.You didn't have to cope with [RL SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTIES] >_>
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 12:13:54 pm
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 01:05:14 pm
Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 01:12:42 pm
As for your question, Flabort, I'd kill the current lynch target if I was town, and possibly if I was scum (if the next in line was also a townie). Otherwise, I'd either kill the towniest player or the one who seems to be most powerful.
Sorry for double post.
Post by: notquitethere on August 17, 2014, 02:04:59 pm
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third partyDo you know this for a fact?
Flabort
Are you a 'neutral third party'?
If they were town they would have claimed.Why?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?If I had a day kill I'd use it to eliminate suspects to get the most out of the early days where we've got a buffer of expendable players. So I'd be shooting you right now. Unfortunately, I don't have a kill.
Post by: flabort on August 17, 2014, 02:29:09 pm
Typically, Cheeetar, the right answer for town is to kill whomever has the most votes on them, functioning as a second lynch; giving town the flip they were going for, and a second chance to lynch right that day. I get what you are saying, though, it does make sense, but it's a much more risky strategy and someone else might find it more suspicious.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Your scum answer works fine; as long as the kill can't be tracked back to you.
Pfp at dialup speeds. It's painful ;(Ouch, yeah, that would be painful.
Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
It could be argued that as scum he would kill someone else, such as me, but yeah, it seems like he'd really be gunning for you right now. Also, since I'm pretty certain he's the SK, neither case actually applies to him.
I would (hypocriticly) recomend against you claiming so early. You are not currently the focus of any gambit or conversation that I am aware of, except for Cheeetar, so unless you're about to pull a gambit of your own, hold off for now.
I am seriously bugged by the fact that everyone thinks I'm third party or scum, but I guess after the stuff I pulled it's no surpirse. This is a step up from being lying scum, anyways, and I appreciate the trust. I will try to refrain from wrecking stuff, as you put it.
Obviously, I'm not certain that Cheeetar is scum. However, trying to coerce people into killing someone who's giving information seems maligent.Double post is fine.
As for your question, Flabort, I'd kill the current lynch target if I was town, and possibly if I was scum (if the next in line was also a townie). Otherwise, I'd either kill the towniest player or the one who seems to be most powerful.
Sorry for double post.
This is exactly the answer I expected from... most everyone and anyone, to be honest. It's the deviants from this answer that we have to be wary of.
Also, yes, Cheeetar is doing that; "lynch all cops" is not exactly a town policy. Among others, he is one of the ones that I am positive is antitown; I would rather lynch mafia than SK, but I guess he needs to die too.
TolyNo he does not know it for a fact.Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third partyDo you know this for a fact?
Flabort
Are you a 'neutral third party'?If they were town they would have claimed.Why?Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?If I had a day kill I'd use it to eliminate suspects to get the most out of the early days where we've got a buffer of expendable players. So I'd be shooting you right now. Unfortunately, I don't have a kill.
No, I'm not a third party. If I was, it would be Town-ally, which I'm not (the only difference being how investigative roles interact with it). I am town.
Why not? If they claimed, town would do everything they could to protect them.
Either way you'd be shooting me? Scum or town? Hmm. This new data might tip some scales on my notes.
NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?
Who are your top suspects right now?
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 05:28:15 pm
@Flabort: Why... are you buddying me? I understand that I'm more or less defending you, but why are you voting Cheeetar right after me? And giving me advice on when to reveal. Individually, each would be fine, but all together it starts to worry me.
And you know, eh. Meh.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 05:30:10 pm
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
A watcher with infinite resurrects and the ability to lynch anyone he so chooses once? I'm not buying it, TolyK. And why exactly do I want you dead, again?
Obviously, I'm not certain that Cheeetar is scum. However, trying to coerce people into killing someone who's giving information seems maligent.Also, yes, Cheeetar is doing that; "lynch all cops" is not exactly a town policy. Among others, he is one of the ones that I am positive is antitown; I would rather lynch mafia than SK, but I guess he needs to die too.
As for your question, Flabort, I'd kill the current lynch target if I was town, and possibly if I was scum (if the next in line was also a townie). Otherwise, I'd either kill the towniest player or the one who seems to be most powerful.
Sorry for double post.
This again? You've had all this time and the best you can come up with now is the same OMGUS you were making earlier.
No, I'm not a third party. If I was, it would be Town-ally, which I'm not (the only difference being how investigative roles interact with it). I am town.
TolyK, do you honestly think a watcher would be so scared to reveal their alignment to town?
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 05:31:32 pm
Policy lynching survivors is a thing.
Post by: TolyK on August 17, 2014, 05:33:21 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 05:38:48 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 05:50:57 pm
Post by: flabort on August 17, 2014, 06:33:46 pm
@NQT: Not completely, but relatively sure.Not buddying. Agreeing with you, but not trying to connect us. You're trying to connect us with that "I made him promise" thing, that's buddying. I'm just agreeing with you about another point.
@Flabort: Why... are you buddying me? I understand that I'm more or less defending you, but why are you voting Cheeetar right after me? And giving me advice on when to reveal. Individually, each would be fine, but all together it starts to worry me.
And you know, eh. Meh.
I voted Cheeetar... because I think you laid down the tying vote? I do eventually want the SK dead anyways, but I don't want a tie to result in a nonlynch, and by casting my vote back on Cheeetar, I prevent a tie vote.
Let's check. Wuba, can we get a votecount?
Third parties aren't house pets, TolyK. You can't put Flabort on a leash and expect him to do what you want, and that you expect us to trust you that you have him under control because of a verbal agreement is a bit silly.I AM FLABORT, IMMORTAL DEMILICH AND SACK OF POTATOES IN MY SPARE TIME. :P
Yeah, no, he's right; my actions can't be controlled by anyone; I stick to guidelines for the good of my wincon, though, and since that wincon is kill all antitown, my actions are in the best interests of anyone else with that same wincon (TOWN). So I'll just keep doing what I do, and town will win. I have agreed not to do anymore things that could be super risky or result in distractions, but I won't turn off my brain or tame down because of it.
You are wrong about me being third party, though. I am town.
You believe a survivor would have those abilities?One or the other, but not both, I think. The Dream would fit on any alignment, but for the vote control and revive, I think both together could only go on a Towny. Though, as certain someones are prone to remind me, we can't predict what Wuba considers balanced powers for any given alignment.
A survivor would.It is, because more often then not they switch sides and start helping scum so that they won't get killed.
Policy lynching survivors is a thing.
As a member of the town, I won't and cannot do that.
A Survivor would be afraid of revealing to the town because of that policy. There are some players that try to help town out even if it's easier to side with scum as a third party, but the policy still stands.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 17, 2014, 06:57:25 pm
Cheeetar, I hate to add more to the pile, but:
So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
flabort:
But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.
If they were town they would have claimed.So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.
Why?
Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
NQT, why were you rolefishing TolyK? What's your current case on flabort?
Varee:
I have a feeling that extending is like voting for no lynch.Interesting theory. Are you concerned enough about it to recommend that we avoid extending this game? Why do you feel like extending is voting nolynch?
From the day one thing that flabort got kill during extend i have a feeling that someone have an ability to kill when we vote extend.
Pisud mai dai
Who are your current suspects?
Tiruin:
*sympathetic pat*Is there any chance of the Flabort wagon being shifted with the extend? Are any of you actually going to make use of your extra time? I see a lot of knee-jerk extending on this forum. Oppose Extend, if possible.You didn't have to cope with [RL SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTIES] >_>
Who are your current suspects, if any? If you had to vote for someone right now, who would it be?
TolyK:
Pfp at dialup speeds. It's painful ;(And you're sure?
Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.
Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.
Nerjin, what's your stance on third parties? Would discovering that flabort was indeed third party change your opinion of him?
Post by: flabort on August 17, 2014, 07:51:45 pm
flabort:How did those contradict? I didn't KNOW that I COULD kill both, so the only options I were aware of were pick and kill one, or kill neither.But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone
Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.
So I chose not to pick and kill one in order to avoid suspicion. IronyOwl, those two things do not contradict. Yes, they are different reasons. No, they don't contradict.
For example, you can be a girl and interested in the internet, those are two different things but they don't contradict.
So my theory is that if whoever killed me was town, they would have claimed.If they were town they would have claimed.So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.
Why?
Since they didn't, my theory is that it was an anti-town that killed me, trying to look town, then clammed up about it because they're anti-town.
For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
That's four days worth of lynches, during which I will spend some time pressing anyone who remains.
So yes, tomorrow I will spend more time looking for more suspects, and I will spend some time today pressing my current suspects.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 17, 2014, 09:05:39 pm
Cheeetar, I hate to add more to the pile, but:
So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?
Naw. I'd use the daykill as town to get rid of people who were being cagey despite being 'certain' they knew who scum was. I'd use it as scum to avoid detection. As town: to confirm/disprove suspicious stuff ("I am certain this person is scum but I will not tell you why!"). As scum: Get rid of people who are good at Mafia and spotting scum (kill Tiruin start of Day 1 before she has the chance to post, and from then on anybody who might be investigatorily powered.)
Post by: Nerjin on August 17, 2014, 09:58:56 pm
Nerjin, what's your stance on third parties? Would discovering that flabort was indeed third party change your opinion of him?
Third parties that can win WITH town I'm all in favor of. But if they can win without town [or can only win with mafia] they need to be killed. It sucks. Makes me feel like a jerk. But I'd rather town win than some third party wins.
@Flabort
I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to provide evidence for your 'theories'.
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 02:34:46 am
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 02:35:59 am
Yes, vote count pls.
Post by: Jack A T on August 18, 2014, 02:45:58 am
Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?Imp: Had we lynched anyone else, Shakerag's powers would have been quite disruptive and town-damaging for the entire game, concealing the alignments and powers of both the D1 lynch and the N1 killed.
[stuff about real life omitted]Nerjin: When I have significant doubts and wish to show where they are, I will show where they are. I'm not one for acting more certain than I am, as I find it looks ridiculous when others do it.
Also, don't say "Seemingly Selective Quoting" when what you mean is "Selective Quoting". If you want to accuse me of something just accuse me of it and be done with this. There is never enough time in mafia to be beating around the bush like that.
MBP: I asked you some questions. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5574263#msg5574263) Do answer them.
TolyK: Quick question: Which of your assorted statements on people are statements of facts you know, and which are statements of your nonconfirmed beliefs? I'm having trouble recognizing which is which when you differentiate minimally.
Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)flabort: Not the definition intended. The one intended is more like "(verb): 1. To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize."
Why those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier....but why those specific groups? Explain why you selected each group. Separate explanations for each group, please.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?As town: If there were some person I 100% knew to be scum, I would daykill them. Aside from that, the lynch target near the end of a day is reasonable if people haven't been setting up night action plans in thread. However, to limit town use of daykills to being based on the collective claimed suspicions of the full player set is to limit them excessively. Another approach I could take early in the game (and only early) is elimination of a major suspect, or (really early) a lurker. All daykill decisions would be based on the situation at the time, and a single universal daykill plan for town me does not exist.
As scum: I could try to act like town me, or I could kill a dangerous townie, or I could save it for LYLO. This all depends heavily on the situation at hand.
I do not have the daykill.
What does my deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about me? What does NQT's deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about him?
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.Considering the overwhelming majority of players here have experience in BYORs, and should already know that daykills can easily be and have been town abilities, I doubt that this had much of an effect.
For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Oh, hey, the allegations again. You keep on making these claims. Back them up. Or are they as lacking in substance as your assertions that your scumminess was really you manipulating everyone into not looking at each other and just focusing on you (which is totally in the interests of the town)?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 18, 2014, 02:47:01 am
Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
Nope!
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 03:38:24 am
But in that case we do have a vigilante, imo.
Also, all of my suspicions are at least partially confirmed by fact. I agree that it's a lot, but given that I consider myself intelligent enough, I would follow those percentages (at least their relative positioning) if you believe my claims at least partially.
NQT, by the way, why do you oppose that extension? Want to end the day quicker, so that people get less time to consider what I and others have said?
Post by: notquitethere on August 18, 2014, 03:48:46 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 18, 2014, 03:52:13 am
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 05:09:11 am
@Cheeetar, obviously I don't expect most people to believe me, but considering what I'm saying is obviously necessary in order to play best. For the who you are not me, you obviously should take it with a soon of salt, but just throwing it away is nonsense. You sure seem to be trying to convince people into doing illogical things - first shooting people who are trying to give information, then trying to tell people to disregard it (not directly, that would be too obvious).
It also seems that this hostility is towards me alone, at this point - are you a lyncher?
Post by: notquitethere on August 18, 2014, 05:17:30 am
NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
TolyK It was literally in the same damn post!
Oh but NQT, you rascal, why are you trying to stifle discussion?
Drawn out days are bad for overall player morale. Town will perform better if the game doesn't slow to a crawl. I see this like I do boardgames where people are taking forever to take their move.
Varee
So Here is what happen last night. I tried build a house for toaster liek what flabort suggested. But form the other info, there a few thing that could have happen.Did we get to the bottom of this?
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
This lead to two other possiblity
Is there any reason this power would fail on you, Toaster?
Silthuri
I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.(Sorry life stuff is tough: I'm sending positive thought beams in what I imagine to be your general direction.)
I have a need to focus on everyone. You're as likely as anyone to be scum. Remember, it's not a crime to replace out if you don't the time to play.
More in a bit
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 05:22:25 am
I'm also interested in Varee and Toaster and the house, and how anything that could've changed anything.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 18, 2014, 05:48:05 am
@Cheeetar, obviously I don't expect most people to believe me, but considering what I'm saying is obviously necessary in order to play best. For the who you are not me, you obviously should take it with a soon of salt, but just throwing it away is nonsense. You sure seem to be trying to convince people into doing illogical things - first shooting people who are trying to give information, then trying to tell people to disregard it (not directly, that would be too obvious).
I'm saying that people shouldn't believe you just because you say something- you need to prove what you say. What about that is 'illogical', and where have I told people to shoot 'information givers'?
It also seems that this hostility is towards me alone, at this point - are you a lyncher?
Jee, I'm sorry for not only focusing on Flabort. I questioned you because you were posting suspicious things- this is a fairly ordinary part of the game, and a passing suspicion is not a reason to accuse somebody of being a lyncher (especially when they're leading a lynch on somebody else...)
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 08:15:50 am
I agree, I do need to prove what I say, but that doesn't mean that you should disregard what I say. That was my point and your illogicity.
This is where I got the notion... that you would kill people claiming to know something without explaining. And saying that if you were scum (which might be a tip-off to scum, theoretically) you would get rid of someone like me ASAP. :
Typically, Cheeetar, the right answer for town is to kill whomever has the most votes on them, functioning as a second lynch; giving town the flip they were going for, and a second chance to lynch right that day. I get what you are saying, though, it does make sense, but it's a much more risky strategy and someone else might find it more suspicious.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
Your scum answer works fine; as long as the kill can't be tracked back to you.
Post by: Silthuri on August 18, 2014, 08:45:35 am
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?I would kill those who I find incredibly suspicious, although this would die out when mistakes come at great cost . At this point, I'd use my kill sparingly. As scum, I would go with my usual scum tactic of either killing those whose deaths wouldn't cast suspicion on me in any way or killing those I deem the greatest threat. I don't have a day-kill. Would be interesting though.
NQT:
Silthuri(Thank you! This has already been the best day I've had in a while so it must be working! :D )I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.(Sorry life stuff is tough: I'm sending positive thought beams in what I imagine to be your general direction.)
I have a need to focus on everyone. You're as likely as anyone to be scum. Remember, it's not a crime to replace out if you don't the time to play.
I understand your questioning of me. My comments directed at you were made in anger and for that I'm sorry. I know it's not a crime to replace out, but webadict took the time to make an awesome role for me and I really want to see what I can do with it. Things are starting to get a bit better though.
Beginning read-through a bit later. Also, extend.
Post by: Varee on August 18, 2014, 09:56:32 am
I feel the house thingy got redirected..... I got to try the random thing. I hope that will make it harder to redirect.
Post by: notquitethere on August 18, 2014, 10:11:44 am
NQT : The second part is a few post under the one you quote. Is your goal to lynch me or something? I got a feeling that you really wnat rid of me.Yeah I saw that but it doesn't resolve the issue. I do want to get rid of you, but that's not my wincon. If it was, I'd be voting you and making up some case as to why you have to die. Lyncher is a rare role, incidentally.
Did you get a post saying your action was a success or failure?
Post by: Varee on August 18, 2014, 10:21:56 am
Post by: Varee on August 18, 2014, 10:26:11 am
Post by: webadict on August 18, 2014, 11:06:53 am
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 11:45:08 am
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 11:48:36 am
Post by: Varee on August 18, 2014, 11:50:06 am
I give someone a power related to their role every night. I can either give a random player, which include myself, the power or i can specify a target for the power, which i cant target myself.
I think i can make one house but if for example flavort copy the power then i guess there can be more house. I got no clue about what kind of power it give though so i cant answer your second question.
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 12:10:28 pm
Final thing: It gives a good power, right? As in, it's a buff to a specific player or to a random player?
Post by: Toaster on August 18, 2014, 01:45:14 pm
Imp:
Toaster:A better question is this:
Flabort: If you're town, why didn't you simply hammer everybody but yourself?
Why did you specify 'If you're town' in that question? If he could have hammered everyone, there's extremely few roles he could possibly have where he would not win by hammering everyone but himself (ironically, the something-ally roles are among those).
What was the purpose of this very odd question, and why do you think this is a 'better question'?
Because I have my doubts as to if he's actually town. Sure, the same logic could apply to several alignments, but I wanted to know what Supposedly Townie Flabort would do in that situation.
It's a better question because Tiruin's question has a purely objective answer. (It wasn't a hammer because there weren't enough votes for a hammer.)
NQT:
Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?
Prior to his antics D1, he had actually improved. Now he's swinging back to scum and pending me finishing this read (I'm answering questions as I encounter them) I'm considering more and more voting him.
Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?
Prior to this, you twice (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573294#msg5573294) mentioned (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573372#msg5573372) Flabort at being L-1, implying heavily you would be voting him otherwise. You didn't here, though. Why?
Flabort:
Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,
If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
I dispute the first claim. Why would they claim?
Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy.
Given he tried to act again, this is extremely unlikely.
Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Probably as an extra lynch, much like it was (attempted to be) used. As a LYLO breaker or to eliminate a claimed power role before they could screw us up; that or to reset votes at an opportune time. Rolefishing.
TolyK:
Lynching 4mask might be a good idea. Mostly because he does WIFOM a lot.
Seriously? Not even a vote?
And yes, I've been persecuting third parties in this game for several reasons.
- Wuba's BYOR's tend to have quite a few third parties
- Several points of behavior from various players do not fit with scum play, but neither do they fit town play
- We have a confirmed SK-ally, ffs.
- * CLASSIFIED *
A very Mafia-aligned trait, I might add. Is the CLASSIFIED there to represent that you are a mafia member?
I want to put out information before I'm likely dead, but want to increase my life expectancy. That is, I'm not comfortable telling how I got this quite yet.
I still remember you pulling this crap when you didn't actually have anything.
Varee:
The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Just to clear this up: even if you target it, it's still an auto power? Or do you target a night action and it just fires off even if you don't target? Or some third thing?
Cheeetar:
Third parties aren't house pets, TolyK. You can't put Flabort on a leash and expect him to do what you want, and that you expect us to trust you that you have him under control because of a verbal agreement is a bit silly.
I totally agree with this.
Jack:
Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
I consider it highly likely that he's not being entirely truthful about the nature of the revive. In short. I doubt it. At the least, there's some other condition on it.
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
In conclusion, Flabort almost certainly isn't town, Scripten isn't hunting well, TolyK is trying to act like a mafia member, and I'd be happy to see any of them hang.
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 01:57:28 pm
It's more like a hider at night, but it seems possible if he's third party. As town I'd say that's impossible.
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 02:01:30 pm
I was town that game, and turned out to be right, didn't I?
Also, this time I'm giving percentages!
Post by: Toaster on August 18, 2014, 02:01:55 pm
I believe you're several days off the timeline..?
I'm caught up reading, if that's your question.
Also, this time I'm giving percentages!
Meaningless ones!
Post by: TolyK on August 18, 2014, 02:06:39 pm
Post by: Scripten on August 18, 2014, 02:49:09 pm
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
-snip-
In conclusion, Flabort almost certainly isn't town, Scripten isn't hunting well, TolyK is trying to act like a mafia member, and I'd be happy to see any of them hang.
Oh, please. If you're going to push to lynch me, then at least bother to read the damn thread. I've posted several times since the one you quoted, specifically targeting someone (4maskwolf) who looked scummy to me. I'm keeping my vote on Flabort because he's the most obvious choice of scum and nothing he's said recently has changed that. About the only alternative explanation I can think of would be that he's an anti-jester and wants to both be lynched and waste the town's time, which is exactly what is happening. We've had a single flip, which was a third party, and one person tried to kill Flabort. (The biggest recent conversation has been Flabort trying to rolefish for the person who did that.) The rest of the day's events have been rehashing old information.
But you'd like to see me lynched for "not hunting well." When you ask questions like below?
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
Of course it's not a town role... Flabort isn't town. Anyone who doesn't see that is just not keeping up with the thread. You put a vote on me which isn't going to go anywhere and call me out on poor scum hunting? Come on, you're supposed to be good at this. Who do YOU want to see lynched? Considering you have your vote on me, a FOS on TolyK, and... a bit of a post saying that Flabort isn't town, I assume that's your list of scummiest players in the game? TolyK is playing strangely, I'll grant you that, but Flabort is practically holding a neon "I HATE THE TOWN" sign above his head, and 4maskwolf kept his vote off of scum because he wanted us to "be looking for scum who haven't spent some of their abilities, to take them out before they can use said abilities."
Post by: Cheeetar on August 18, 2014, 02:50:52 pm
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
In response to 1), not unless they really needed it because of their win condition (or Webadict designed a role to screw with it.) In either case, I still can't see it as town.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 18, 2014, 03:18:10 pm
Ah, but I'm just pressing points and pressing buttons.
I agree, I do need to prove what I say, but that doesn't mean that you should disregard what I say. That was my point and your illogicity.
This is where I got the notion... that you would kill people claiming to know something without explaining. And saying that if you were scum (which might be a tip-off to scum, theoretically) you would get rid of someone like me ASAP. :As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.
If I were scum and knew you weren't (aka you were probably telling the truth about knowing things) getting rid of you immediately would be logical, though! Anyway, I wasn't trying to convince people of anything- at the moment, I think if anybody has a gun they ought to point it at Flabort. If I was town vig, without context (as was the case in the hypothetical), those are the targets I'd try to aim at in general.
Post by: flabort on August 18, 2014, 09:28:55 pm
Cheeetar Who, besides me, do you hold the opinion of being the greatest threat to town? Why?
Nerjin What are your plans following this day? What do you see happening tomorrow?
Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Jack A T How has your own play been so far, in your opinion? Do you believe there are any holes in your defense?
Toaster When you said that Cheeetar gets no credit for hammering a dangerous third party, does this imply that anyone else who suspected this third party gets credit? Does the suspicion I get for creating that situation override any credit I have so far?
TolyK I'd like to know as much as you can think of about my four suspects (above the divider). How scummy would you would rate each one?
Tiruin You seem to have gone silent. Is this a sign of RL troubles, or is there nothing for you to say?
Post by: webadict on August 18, 2014, 09:37:27 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, TolyK, flabort,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Tiruin, notquitethere,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten - Toaster,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Jack A T,
Varee -
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf,
9 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 7 PMish CST.
Post by: flabort on August 18, 2014, 10:05:30 pm
I honestly though there were more votes on Cheeetar. Guess not.
Part way through answering Jack, still working on my post.
Post by: Scripten on August 18, 2014, 10:41:53 pm
Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Nope, not any more proof than what you've presented for your case where I'm a third scum or some anti-town alignment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572602#msg5572602) Why? Because I'm voting you alongside three of the other people you're suspecting. So, like I said ages ago, you're OMGUS-y anti-town/scum. You keep trying to get everyone to focus on people you're assigning rather than making direct accusations and following through. (You've done this twice now, off the top of my head.)
Post by: flabort on August 18, 2014, 10:52:21 pm
I'm super tired. Might have missed something or another.I'm trying to, but when your clues are abstract differences in observed behavior, it's hard.
@Flabort
I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to provide evidence for your 'theories'.
Also, when you don't ask a full question. Which theories are you refering to with this particular question?
The one that you are scum? Can't just make a collection of quotes in ten minutes to proove it. It would take hours to fully explain to YOUR satisfaction why you have to be scum.
OK, so it sounds like I'm being dodgy here. Promise you, tommorow I will spend some time tracking down where and when you feel off, building this proof.
I see. Well, that makes sense. I can see how you thought I was doing that. However, I don't believe I was.Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)flabort: Not the definition intended. The one intended is more like "(verb): 1. To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize."
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Tall order :PWhy those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier....but why those specific groups? Explain why you selected each group. Separate explanations for each group, please.
Alright.
For a pre-note, each group was a mutual analysis to keep all members trustworthy in their analysis, for purposes of catching lies.
Yourself and 4mask have a mutual relationship of distancing. When 4mask answered about you, he said he invariably reads you as town; and as far as I've ever observed, you only ever find him to be mildly scummy. This was an experiment in seeing if I could get you two to give different reads on eachother for once.
Imp, Toaster, and Scripten are some of our most active players right now, with possibly the exception of Scripten. However, when I issolated everyone from eachother with my "lookit me I'm faking defending myself" act to atract votes, it split these three up. I would like the more active players to take a look at the more active players.
ALSO, for this trio, Scripten was my scum suspect. But he's a weaker player as far as I've seen. So getting him to analyze the same person analyzing him would be less effective (for this reason I SHOULD have included a third person with Varee and Nerjin); so I had him analyze a player I was less familiar with and had that player analyze the more familiar player, to keep them all trustworthy.
Varee and Nerjin President Stalin and Wreck it Ralph. The fox in the henhouse and the guy who quite possibly gave Tiruin her new "50% chance to lose an ability" ability. Name calling and reaction testing asside:
Actually, this pairing was mostly just a reaction test. Nerjin basically ignored how I asked Varee about fearing Nerjin. In fact, he also ignored the question directed at him, too. Varee also ignored the fear portion, and answered minimally.
I infer from this that Nerjin wants to avoid comenting on who is part of his scum team, yes or no; if he were town the question would have refered to if he thinks Varee is town or not; but his diening not to answer infers that he is part of a different team.
Cheeeetar and Persus Cheeetar is active and Persus is... when was persus last online?
This was a test of Cheeetar's reaction speed, sort of, to test if he was actively paying atention or if he was going to hide away from anything.
It was also a test to see if I could draw Persus out. I haven't seen him post since.
Honestly, I don't rightly remember everything about why I paired these two, but I know there was more. But since I forget why, the results beyond what I have are useless.
IO and MBP I knew that unless Irony had a really, really good reason to focus on someone, they would ignore that someone. Jiokuy/MBP has been mostly absent, with nothing to focus on. I wanted to see if I could encourage MBP to be more active, and to see if I could get Irony looking in more places then just where stuff was happening.
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Yours is probably the one with the most contingencies. However, it's pretty much the same answer as TolyL's, but with additions. I'm not surprised to see such an experienced player have a longer, more extensive strategy for using the kill to cover more situations.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?As town: If there were some person I 100% knew to be scum, I would daykill them. Aside from that, the lynch target near the end of a day is reasonable if people haven't been setting up night action plans in thread. However, to limit town use of daykills to being based on the collective claimed suspicions of the full player set is to limit them excessively. Another approach I could take early in the game (and only early) is elimination of a major suspect, or (really early) a lurker. All daykill decisions would be based on the situation at the time, and a single universal daykill plan for town me does not exist.
As scum: I could try to act like town me, or I could kill a dangerous townie, or I could save it for LYLO. This all depends heavily on the situation at hand.
I do not have the daykill.
What does my deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about me? What does NQT's deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about him?
NQT's deviation from the norm is alarming, but only on a personal level. It makes sense; it's more of a cavelier attitude, shoot first ask questions later consequences be damned, but it is still a legitimate town strategy. Just, less so.
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You say tomatoe, I say potato. You see a shadow, I see a Rorschach Test. Even if you're right and I didn't scare anyone off, I think that had some sort of effect somewhere.Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.Considering the overwhelming majority of players here have experience in BYORs, and should already know that daykills can easily be and have been town abilities, I doubt that this had much of an effect.
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It was a bad strategy to steal town's attention. I admit that now. I'm working to undo that now, and I'm still getting more results from it even now. For example, you, Jack, are not likely to believe a lie when told one, but equally likely not to believe the truth. Even if you are not who I believe you to be, you have a strong distrust of everything. Especially if you are not scum, even. And you are being a lot more trusting of Nerjin than I would expect you to be if either of you were town, honestly. Just subtle clues here and there that you could be questioning him more.For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.Oh, hey, the allegations again. You keep on making these claims. Back them up. Or are they as lacking in substance as your assertions that your scumminess was really you manipulating everyone into not looking at each other and just focusing on you (which is totally in the interests of the town)?
Hmm. It does, I'm telling you. See below, reply to Toaster.Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?
Nope!
FlabortRight. So your style of analisis only starts to work when one team or the other starts to get a numerical advantage over the other.NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
Whereas the gambit style of analysis I've been using works right away but carries more risk. I think you should try to psychologically seperate people and see what happens when you put them back together some time; I think you'd be better at this then I am.
Basically, I disagree about there being too many people for good analisis.
Flabort:I find it interesting how most players are assuming it's one-shot, but you assume you could use it over and over.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?I would kill those who I find incredibly suspicious, although this would die out when mistakes come at great cost . At this point, I'd use my kill sparingly. As scum, I would go with my usual scum tactic of either killing those whose deaths wouldn't cast suspicion on me in any way or killing those I deem the greatest threat. I don't have a day-kill. Would be interesting though.
I don't have anything else to say about that yet at this time, though.
Flabort:Yes, and I have to say, good job on spotting that he's full of bogus, and I like the use of the word regurgitated. However, your answer leaves me wanting more from you.Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
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This is undoubtedly the most confusing bit. Assuming it was a one-shot, it's expended now. It can't be used to kill again, since it didn't trigger when the day extended this time. And since it's expended, there is no risk to the person who used to to take credit for it. I would assume that they wanted to take credit for it? No?If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
I dispute the first claim. Why would they claim?
There's no risk to, and there's credit to be had. But that's probably not enough to satisfy your answer.
Assuming everyone believed I was scum at the time, and possibly still do (dat vote count), it would make them less suspicious themselves. And assuming that they're not you, Toaster, who has a reputation of never revealing anything (more widly applied to alignment), there aren't many people who'd have the restraint not to as town.
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He tried to put some words in bold. After the hammer.Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy.
Given he tried to act again, this is extremely unlikely.
His goal with that was to pretend to have an ability, but pretending to miss his opportunity to use it.
I find it doubtful that he actually has a vote reset ability unless it's tied to his day kill.
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OK, Toaster as second candidate for day kill if Nerjin flips and doesn't have it.Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?
Probably as an extra lynch, much like it was (attempted to be) used. As a LYLO breaker or to eliminate a claimed power role before they could screw us up; that or to reset votes at an opportune time. Rolefishing.
I still believe Nerjin has it.
Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?Yes and Yes.
I will reveal the one piece of information regarding my role I have withheld until now:
My revive takes a whole cycle to recharge. As I was killed Day 1, I will get my revive back Night two. If I had been killed Night 1 instead, I would have my revive on the morning of Day 2.
I don't have it back yet! Yay! You may procede to lynch me over allowing you to believe I had it now. ::)
The revive is probably not as strong as you were assuming when you wrote that question, mate.
The OMGUS or the assigning of focus?Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Nope, not any more proof than what you've presented for your case where I'm a third scum or some anti-town alignment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572602#msg5572602) Why? Because I'm voting you alongside three of the other people you're suspecting. So, like I said ages ago, you're OMGUS-y anti-town/scum. You keep trying to get everyone to focus on people you're assigning rather than making direct accusations and following through. (You've done this twice now, off the top of my head.)
Because I don't remember how many times it could be percieved that I've done the former, but I've done the latter four times. Five if you include subtle manipulation within this very post.
I like mind games. Puzzles and mind games. Mafia is the perfect expresion of both. And I am playing the mind games like a Potato Occarina. Sure, maybe I shouldn't, but I am definitely enjoying them.
You may not be able to trust me, but I have been telling the truth and I am town. I just wanted to have fun with mind games, is all.
Post by: Scripten on August 18, 2014, 11:20:48 pm
Imp, Toaster, and Scripten are some of our most active players right now, with possibly the exception of Scripten. However, when I issolated everyone from eachother with my "lookit me I'm faking defending myself" act to atract votes, it split these three up. I would like the more active players to take a look at the more active players.
ALSO, for this trio, Scripten was my scum suspect. But he's a weaker player as far as I've seen. So getting him to analyze the same person analyzing him would be less effective (for this reason I SHOULD have included a third person with Varee and Nerjin); so I had him analyze a player I was less familiar with and had that player analyze the more familiar player, to keep them all trustworthy.
Congratulations on trying to pass scum play as an act/gambit. You know, if it gets you lynched and you ARE town (Doubtful in my mind) you're not helping the town. Last time I remember you making a gambit, it only paid off because TolyK pulled it the rest of the way. Seems to me that, if you were town, you'd be working with the town like you had before. Meta sucks, but this is scummy as well as out-of-character. As it stands, I feel like your play is anti-town and self serving. Thus, either scum or anti-town third party.
Flabort:Yes, and I have to say, good job on spotting that he's full of bogus, and I like the use of the word regurgitated. However, your answer leaves me wanting more from you.Toaster How has Scripten's play been? Where do you see it going, what is your opinion about it?
Did you catch where I voted him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572337#msg5572337)? He's had a grand total of one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) post since then, and no, it didn't go anywhere of clearing my issues with him. That said, I intend to go over his further posts in more depth,probably at the end of this postright here. I'm still unimpressed with his play.
Masterful buddying. Why don't you post some of your fantastic deductive results? Considering you haven't claimed any sort of inspection powers and say you've fullclaimed, this is a bunch of self-congratulatory BS. Toaster feels more town, or at least unaligned with you, because of this post, though.
The OMGUS or the assigning of focus?Scripten How do you plan to prove that I'm not town? Can you produce concrete proof?
Nope, not any more proof than what you've presented for your case where I'm a third scum or some anti-town alignment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572602#msg5572602) Why? Because I'm voting you alongside three of the other people you're suspecting. So, like I said ages ago, you're OMGUS-y anti-town/scum. You keep trying to get everyone to focus on people you're assigning rather than making direct accusations and following through. (You've done this twice now, off the top of my head.)
Because I don't remember how many times it could be percieved that I've done the former, but I've done the latter four times. Five if you include subtle manipulation within this very post.
I like mind games. Puzzles and mind games. Mafia is the perfect expresion of both. And I am playing the mind games like a Potato Occarina. Sure, maybe I shouldn't, but I am definitely enjoying them.
You may not be able to trust me, but I have been telling the truth and I am town. I just wanted to have fun with mind games, is all.
OMGUS-ing. You're still doing it, this far into the second day, which is fairly telling. You set up a player to take the fall for you, dog them and everyone who votes you, and pray they're anti-town to clear yourself while you distract everyone by getting reads and reports all day. It's a little simple and I'm frankly amazed you expect us to fall for it. Also, seriously, are your palms getting hairy or is your vision fading lately?
Post by: Tiruin on August 18, 2014, 11:49:18 pm
Tiruin You seem to have gone silent. Is this a sign of RL troubles, or is there nothing for you to say?RL has gone better (thanks Irony u_u) and I've been reading up, just finalizing my notes here! :O
Also why the lapse is more on 'o hey let's rush group works because :D' sort of deals -_-
Unvote
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 19, 2014, 12:02:38 am
Quote
MysteriousBluePuppet: Great to see you again. If you had been in the position of Cheeetar or Shakerag at the end of Day 1, what would you have done? What are your reads? How, if at all, does Flabort's claimed Latvian Dream power play into your idea of how to deal with Flabort?
I'd probably have posted asking people not to vote. Like, 36pt NOBODY VOTE. The move is scummy, Basically put anybody up to get killed, shorten the day, nothing good to get out of it. In that case. Shakerag got killed, he was SK ally, everything went better than expected. Still, scummy move.
Latvian dream aint a town role imo. You don't give a multiple revive to a townie. Possibly a 1 shot revive disguised to discourage another attack. As to how to handle it, I suppose a lynch would be the best thing. Flabort will probably earn my vote once i re-do a good reading, unless i get a new perspective on somebody else. Lynch don't often fail. It's town best weapon, after all.
Oh and thanks for your concern Flabort, i'll admit ive been msotly absent the last few days. The switch between work and college is incoming, and so scheduling is beign a bitch, Should be fine for next 2 days, at least. Hopefully i'll be able to stay ahead rather than lagging behind on the reading. Shit's killing me.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 03:50:07 am
Imp, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, what are your plans for voting this day; do you notice any people who seem suspicious?
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 04:07:25 am
CheeetarJack AT: Very logical. Can't really say anything about him otherwise.
Nerjin
Scripten
Jack A T
TolyK I'd like to know as much as you can think of about my four suspects (above the divider). How scummy would you would rate each one?
Scripten: I haven't seen enough of Scripten to gauge play.
Nerjin: Seems like a president (duh), like a mayor. Seemed like a third party, but that makes too many of them. Mixed read between town, third party and scum - mostly leaning on town, though.
Cheeetar: More or less scum read. Answered questions with hidden accusations embedded and seemed to want to shoot me (skepticism is fine, but that's a bit too far, I think).
Flabort: Neutral third party, pretending to be mass manipulating, which I find a bit silly.
Tiruin: Pretty sure she's town due to behavior and circumstances.
Toaster: Town due to circumstances.
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
Lynching Flabort is not out of the question, but possibly not the best lynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 04:12:25 am
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
Your post in general was fairly low commitment & content, but this in particular sticks out. "I don't understand why he isn't claiming, but he shouldn't claim."
Would you care to rephrase?
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 04:42:19 am
Also since I'm not completely sure about what happened.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 04:44:49 am
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 04:50:22 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 04:57:56 am
Do note that any reasons you provide for why it would be good would be, y'know, reasons he shouldn't post his role.
Post by: notquitethere on August 19, 2014, 05:17:14 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 05:27:46 am
NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.
Who are your top suspects right now?
Did you plan on doing this and forget, notquitethere?
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 05:29:32 am
Varee, did you gain any abilities this night? Just a yes or no.
Post by: notquitethere on August 19, 2014, 06:10:24 am
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 07:50:54 am
I didnot get a new ability tolyk
I accept that I am lazy but I just believe that pressing case is not the best way for me to gain info right now.
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 08:02:25 am
Post by: notquitethere on August 19, 2014, 08:24:10 am
be patient NQT My vote is safest where it is right now.Your wincon isn't to 'get information'! The lynch is the weapon of the town, by passively refusing to press a case you are acting anti-town.
I accept that I am lazy but I just believe that pressing case is not the best way for me to gain info right now.
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 09:08:45 am
But yeah. I'm gaining information for the public use, which is why I'm fine, but I'm not sure what information Varee is gathering.
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 09:14:57 am
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 09:21:52 am
Post by: Scripten on August 19, 2014, 09:27:01 am
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for. I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.
An idle town is just about as good for scum. Right beside an idle town is a town afraid to use votes. (This is something that is greatly bothering me about the way Flabort used his multi-vote power: It can be seen as a scare tactic.)
Who would you be voting for if you weren't worried about using your vote, Varee?
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 09:48:45 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 09:51:47 am
Yeah, reading up, but slow net .-.
Post by: Scripten on August 19, 2014, 10:01:24 am
Slithuri
...why are you afraid to vote someone who has absolutely no votes?
And why do you suspect Silthuri of being scum? Activity level?
Post by: notquitethere on August 19, 2014, 10:05:41 am
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for. I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.Yes, and town allow mislynched to happen when they don't press cases on actual scum. Why are you content to sit by and let scum mislynch?
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 10:17:32 am
Well I dont say that sitting and let other people vote will prevent mislynch. Am leaving that to the more potent player to make that decision.
I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying , Why dont everyone just mass claim as that is one thing you can do to force certain people to lie.
Giving power to random people or a certain someone is definitely not scum hunting but something that got to be done have to be done.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 10:22:54 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 10:38:30 am
Yea, drop a finger of Suspicion on somehow--however leave not anything else for them to grab on, to utilize a metaphor, and you'll have curiosity at its peak.
For quite well everyone.
The term of 'distraction' could be taken wrongly in that scenario, but knowing you, I...doubt it.
And no. No ignores :V That's just rude.
Query, Varee: (also its real late here, good morning :p) What was behind your idea of FoS'ing without context?
Post by: Scripten on August 19, 2014, 10:40:16 am
Well I dont have anyone in mind to vote really... Sithuri isnt any more suspicious than most other player actually but there just not much to go on for her.
Well I dont say that sitting and let other people vote will prevent mislynch. Am leaving that to the more potent player to make that decision.
Now, please don't take this the wrong way, but if this is your mindset, then what exactly is the point of you? I know you prefer to play during the night and you say you have a more solid night game, but if you aren't using all the tools given to you as town, then how are we supposed to consider you town? That is, if you aren't playing as a townsperson, you are essentially saying that you are not town, or at least don't want to play as town.
I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
Ehh... WIFOM. Acting anti-town is acting anti-town, whether you are scum or not.
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying , Why dont everyone just mass claim as that is one thing you can do to force certain people to lie.
How so? You can't really tell an alignment from role powers in this game. I don't think a mass claim is necessary right now.
Giving power to random people or a certain someone is definitely not scum hunting but something that got to be done have to be done.
Why? What if you give power to scum?
So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Most town? Probably IronyOwl and Imp. Most everyone is null save for a few.
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 10:40:31 am
That fos was just answering to scripten,
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 10:49:22 am
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Most town? Probably IronyOwl and Imp. Most everyone is null save for a few.
Post by: Varee on August 19, 2014, 10:53:24 am
I am sitting here like a santa handing out gift. Not many poeple feel like their should get involve with my house discussion but am getting there.
Post by: Persus13 on August 19, 2014, 11:26:19 am
Well Mislynch is the best thing that mafia can wish for.This isn't true. The best thing the mafia could wish for is a No Lynch every day. Mafia is primarily a game of information, and the scum start off with the most amount of information. Every lynch gives town information, not just on what the lynched person's role was, but also on how they interacted with other players, who voted for the lynched player, and why people behaved the way they did. Lynching is often town's only weapon against the scumkill so use your vote or don't play.
I still believe I cannot be certain that my using my vote, I will further my wincon, I believe that I am doing what is best for me by not misplacing my vote.That's because you've done nothing this game except babble on about houses. Do stuff to help change that instead. Ask questions. Prod about stuff you find odd.
Well I dont say that sitting and let other people vote will prevent mislynch. Am leaving that to the more potent player to make that decision.But that more potent player could be scum. People like NQT or Toaster are good players, whether they are scum or town. They won't watch themselves, and need other people to do that for themselves.
I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).This is a good start to formulating an opinion on someone. You think flabort is unlikely to be scum because he was reckless D1? So ask people who are voting flabort why they think that being reckless means flabort's scum.
Also: You cite CYOM as where you got lynched for doing something reckless, and everyone thought you were scum. What do you think this says about the alignment of people who normally do reckless stuff in Mafia? Look at all the responses to the question about people using daykills that said "If I had a daykill, I'd use it sparingly and on someone I was positive was scum"
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying , Why dont everyone just mass claim as that is one thing you can do to force certain people to lie.The problem with this is that Scum powers often look like town powers, and they can conceal their powers pretty easily. Look at CYOM when everyone mass-claimed. The one remaining active Mafia player full-claimed completely all his actions, which caused him to seem pretty town. It was only a town player suddenly deciding to kill him that caused him to lose the game.
Giving power to random people or a certain someone is definitely not scum hunting but something that got to be done have to be done.I'm glad you see it that way. Are you saying you're a third party and this house thing helps your wincon? Because this is what you sound like you are.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?I think Tiruin is probably Town because of her play and her reporting losing her Miller auto.
Other than that, I can't really think of anyone. From what I've seen of Slithuri and Imp's pay, they have been playing well and seem pretty town to me. Oh, and Toaster is playing well, but then again, Toaster can be very good at being scum too.
Scripten:
Please define exactly how Flabort's behavior was anti-town. I have my own reasons, but I want to hear yours.I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
Ehh... WIFOM. Acting anti-town is acting anti-town, whether you are scum or not.
Tiruin:
Persus: Thanks for clarifying it back there--the misunderstanding >_< Will be completing my read in the next half-day.I used an ability to destroy your Miller auto last night. I got no response from Webadict, which means it was successful. The next day you claimed you lost your Miller auto. If you were scum, you wouldn't have that, so you would likely wouldn't have said anything about it.Tiruin:Could you explain the orange part? My intuition had a bad ping after I thought about this.> I've lost my Miller ability (...yeah.)That was me testing to make sure you weren't fakeclaiming scum. You passed. It also is completely gone, not stolen.
How did you test, and how did you check if the ability is gone?
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 01:01:01 pm
If its RL-school issues, I could help there.Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.
Otherwise: *hugs a lot*
Yeah...will get notes soon x_x
Post by: Toaster on August 19, 2014, 01:09:22 pm
But you'd like to see me lynched for "not hunting well." When you ask questions like below?Everyone: Do you believe a role with a reusable revive AND the ability to make itself unactionable at night really 1) is a true claim 2) is town?
Quoting a question where I'm trying to prove a point and calling it bad hunting is pretty misleading.
That said, I'm having less issues with your play now, and am willing to back off for now.
Unvote Scripten.
Flabort:
Toaster When you said that Cheeetar gets no credit for hammering a dangerous third party, does this imply that anyone else who suspected this third party gets credit? Does the suspicion I get for creating that situation override any credit I have so far?
Not really. Given that he was an independent actor (we have no reason to suspect that the SK even knew an ally existed nor do we know that Shakerag knew who the SK was), there's no associative tells to work with. Additionally, scum wouldn't know if he was town or not.
As for you, all I can go by is your case on him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5564604#msg5564604). From what I can tell, your biggest beef comes from the question in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5563729#msg5563729). I really don't see a big deal with it. I guess your case is based in reality, but that doesn't award you nearly enough points to override anything. In fact, any credit for a case is wiped out by you merely asking if that covered for it.
Regarding claiming daykills: Interestingly, a one-shot (day) kill is one of the things I'm more likely to claim unprompted- see Jack's BYOR (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139254.msg5464938#msg5464938).
Regarding the slight change of claim on your revive: That pushes it slightly into the realm of plausible, though I'm still not convinced of its validity or your alignment.
Varee:
be patient NQT My vote is safest where it is right now.
Several people have already said this, but let me just agree that this is malarkey.
Slithuri
Seriously, there is zero reason this can't be a vote.
For all you know i could have been causing distraction and trying to get something to happen so why dont you just ignore me.......
Good point!
Varee.
Tiruin:
Unvote
Why did you unvote Flabort here?
Persus:
I used an ability to destroy your Miller auto last night. I got no response from Webadict, which means it was successful. The next day you claimed you lost your Miller auto. If you were scum, you wouldn't have that, so you would likely wouldn't have said anything about it.
Huh. If that's true, then Tiruin is almost certainly not mafia and very likely town.
Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?
Post by: flabort on August 19, 2014, 03:25:18 pm
Excellent. We don't have to worry about today's lynch having been a waste- Flabort was lying when he roleclaimed earlier, and his resurrect is not what he said it was. We're safe to lynch him.I'm afraid I never, ever said when my revive resets. I never said "It comes back the day after". I allowed people to guess that and believe that, but I never said that. So I'm not lying.
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 03:29:48 pm
Tiruin:Behavioral analysis (sans the idea of 'oh hey that power couldn't REALLY BE [alignment-related]) of the person in question.Unvote
Why did you unvote Flabort here?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 19, 2014, 03:42:20 pm
Just for now, however: Varee, stop making me want to lynch you when now is the time Flabort's resurrect hasn't regenerated. Voting is pro-town, and claiming that you're afraid of mislynching just means you're afraid of looking like scum to your fellow town. Be brave! Mistakes may be made, but worse things will happen if none of us vote for a lynch.
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 04:09:56 pm
I am reminded of a friend.
Also, it smells so much of bs that I don't even know.
Flabort's a neutral third party, my say is final in third resurrect. But what the hell are you doing.
Post by: Nerjin on August 19, 2014, 04:22:50 pm
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.
Frieken finally! Something other people can reply to on your case! Thanks a bunch Flabort! It's long, so I'm gonna go ahead and spoiler it.
Spoiler: Flabort (click to show/hide)
TL;DR: Flabort claims to be a genius who manipulates me around the block and back when in actuality he just says a bunch of crap and then expects everyone to be stupid enough to believe it.
Post by: Persus13 on August 19, 2014, 04:27:09 pm
Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments), NQT (focusing solely on flabort's post count besides vote count late D1), 4maskwolf (suicidal behavior and defense of 4maskwolf), Cheeetar (hardcore tunneling of Flabort and running argument taking up almost all of his posts), IronyOwl (tunneling Cheeetar for something Flabort should mainly be blamed for), Jack A T (something just feels different from his play in Supernatural 7, he doesn't feel hyper-townie like he did then), and Varee (behaving like some sort of weird third party, though could just be his inexperience).
This is roughly in order from scummiest to least scummiest.
Flabort:
Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:Excellent. We don't have to worry about today's lynch having been a waste- Flabort was lying when he roleclaimed earlier, and his resurrect is not what he said it was. We're safe to lynch him.I'm afraid I never, ever said when my revive resets. I never said "It comes back the day after". I allowed people to guess that and believe that, but I never said that. So I'm not lying.
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
His address to Silthuri in that post feels suspicious,SLithuri is Nerjin's girlfriend in RL, so his comment referring to her as First Lady makes sense in that context.
Quote
Also, I'm not sure why Shakerag says Nerjin likes revolvers. This is mildly suspicious.Read the text under Nerjin's forum avatar. It's also a reference to something, but I don't remember the name. (Revolver Ocelot maybe?)
Quote
And assuming he's referring to himself when he says America, his closing statement becomes a taunt to the town.It's fairly obvious that America is the town overall, and Nerjin just calls himself the President.
A Day kill and a Pardon both fit the flavor of a president, so it's possible Nerjin could have both. But what would be the point of Nerjin faking having a Pardon?
Your case also has several elements that just feel like you tried to shoehorn in stuff. So despite the fact you brought up a few good points, I still want to see your roleflip to make sure.
Post by: Persus13 on August 19, 2014, 04:27:57 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 19, 2014, 04:33:34 pm
Toaster:Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments)
Fair enough. Mind if I ask for some follow up on that? Just in general is fine. I'm rather curious.
Quote from: Persus13
Flabort:Quote from: Flabort[[Flabort posts a giant Wall of text with a bunch of crap within it.Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:
No, no it isn't. It is crap. Please, please tell me you're not serious.
Quote from: Persus
QuoteHis address to Silthuri in that post feels suspicious,SLithuri is Nerjin's girlfriend in RL, so his comment referring to her as First Lady makes sense in that context.
And I am quite lucky in that regard. Seriously, you guys are missing out.
Quote from: Persus
QuoteAlso, I'm not sure why Shakerag says Nerjin likes revolvers. This is mildly suspicious.Read the text under Nerjin's forum avatar. It's also a reference to something, but I don't remember the name. (Revolver Ocelot maybe?)
Yes, it is something Revovler Ocelot says.
Quote
[Flabort] Your casealso has several elements thatjust feel(s) like you tried to shoehorn in stuff.
Fixed that for you.
Post by: Jack A T on August 19, 2014, 05:07:38 pm
Nerjin: Seems like a president (duh), like a mayor. Seemed like a third party, but that makes too many of them. Mixed read between town, third party and scum - mostly leaning on town, though.TolyK: Can you explain these? Posting reads without reasons doesn't help town. I know you've decided you love posting thoughts without explaining, but you really have to explain.
Cheeetar: More or less scum read. Answered questions with hidden accusations embedded and seemed to want to shoot me (skepticism is fine, but that's a bit too far, I think).
Tiruin: Pretty sure she's town due to behavior and circumstances.
Toaster: Town due to circumstances.
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
I accept that I am lazy but I just believe that pressing case is not the best way for me to gain info right now.Varee: Explain this statement. Also, give reads of everyone. What the fuck are you doing and why are you doing so little to scumhunt?
So If finding scum is the goal and finding scum is find who is lying...Thing is, it isn't. The majority of the time, the scum won't be lying about much beyond their alignments. In a game like this, with third parties, the "scumhunting" of scum will even be largely legitimate, as they need information too. We're not primarily hunting liars. We're primarily hunting people who are trying to use the tools of town for goals other than town victory.
So who do you people think is the most town right now?Tiruin. Definitely Tiruin. Believable miller claim, plus unproven corroboration by Persus.
That said, I'm having less issues with your [Scripten's] play now, and am willing to back off for now.Toaster: Please explain.
Persus13: What points in flabort's attack on Nerjin do you believe to be the good points?
Nerjin: Why am I the one asking the above question to Persus13, instead of you? You had the chance to try to learn what Persus was thinking were the good points, and you instead just jabbed Persus for his relatively high opinion of flabort's attack. A reflexive defence instead of an informed defence, basically. What makes it so important to strongly indicate you disagree with Persus13 without even trying to figure out exactly what the disagreements are?
Jack A T How has your own play been so far, in your opinion?Flabort: I have not had the chance to be as active as I'd like, but my play is non-terrible.
Do you believe there are any holes in your defense?Considering I have not yet had to defend myself, as I have not had anything to defend myself against, the premise of this question is invalid. Besides, isn't it your job to find holes in your targets' defences?
Yourself and 4mask have a mutual relationship of distancing. When 4mask answered about you, he said he invariably reads you as town; and as far as I've ever observed, you only ever find him to be mildly scummy. This was an experiment in seeing if I could get you two to give different reads on eachother for once.Fascinating! You couldn't explain this group without depending completely on information you could not have had when you assert you created the group: our responses to your group questions. My previous posted read of 4mask this game is a null read (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5560728#msg5560728), and 4maskwolf had not once posted a read of me before you requested one. Your "mutual relationship" is lacking. Your assertion that the group was based on our reads of each other is false. Your reasons for the group are based on 4mask having consistent reads of me that he had not yet shown and me having a consistent mild scum read of 4mask that was without a base in reality.
It's almost as if you're trying to create a reason for these groups after you claim you made them!
So, why can't you explain why you allegedly created the 4mask/me group?
For example, you, Jack, are not likely to believe a lie when told one, but equally likely not to believe the truth. Even if you are not who I believe you to be, you have a strong distrust of everything. Especially if you are not scum, even. And you are being a lot more trusting of Nerjin than I would expect you to be if either of you were town, honestly. Just subtle clues here and there that you could be questioning him more.Alright, you've finally said something about what you're attacking me for. Would you be so kind as to give evidence for your assertions?
I will reveal the one piece of information regarding my role I have withheld until now:Based on the fact, correctly pointed out by some, that a rapid recharging revive would be rather ridiculous, plus this new claim, I hereby place my vote where it should be. Flabort.
My revive takes a whole cycle to recharge. As I was killed Day 1, I will get my revive back Night two. If I had been killed Night 1 instead, I would have my revive on the morning of Day 2.
I don't have it back yet! Yay! You may procede to lynch me over allowing you to believe I had it now. ::)
One last thing: would you mind saying what your key points against Nerjin are, and why they indicate he is scum? I skimmed your massive link dump, but it is a a massive post-by-post analysis where your points are sandwiched between piles of unimportant material. Can you summarize the important parts and give their relevant evidence on their own?
Post by: Tiruin on August 19, 2014, 05:10:52 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 19, 2014, 06:18:19 pm
How much time till day end? 12 hours from now and I'm totally free (+ destressing x_x)About 25 hours from this post.
Nerjin:
You were unexplainably irritable in some posts, especially in that post regarding 4maskwolf's unnecessary post. Your reaction to some of flabort's previous comments (not sure which ones) seemed over the top. It wasn't much, you've just been provoking the strange radar (in fact you shoud have been much lower on that list, now that I think about it).Toaster:Who else do you suspect besides Flabort?Right now? Probably Nerjin (some strange comments)
Fair enough. Mind if I ask for some follow up on that? Just in general is fine. I'm rather curious.
I was mainly applauding the fact he mainly spent a lot of time and effort building a giant post with links and stuff in it. A giant case on you gives a lot of information, and flabort should be applauded for that. I also wanted to see what your reaction would be. You seriously overreacted to my post. Why are you so worried about a post that you believe is full of BS and is coming from someone who has been on the chopping block since D1, when no one has been voting you? Me saying that flabort's case has a few good points shouldn't be disconcerting, especially since I'm still voting him and mentioned that I still wanted to see flabort's roleflip. And fixing my post was unnecessary.Quote from: Persus13Flabort:Quote from: Flabort[[Flabort posts a giant Wall of text with a bunch of crap within it.Well done, this is a good solid post on Nerjin that raises a few good points. Some Nitpicks, and I'd have more if I had time:
No, no it isn't. It is crap. Please, please tell me you're not serious.Quote[Flabort] Your casealso has several elements thatjust feel(s) like you tried to shoehorn in stuff.
Fixed that for you.
Jack A T:
Persus13: What points in flabort's attack on Nerjin do you believe to be the good points?Nerjin's comment on the food production industry seemed out of place, if not as significant as flabort seemed to think.
Flabort's day kill scenario seems possible, so I'm asking him why he thinks it's that not anything else.
Flabort's mention that Nerjin has focused a lot on 4maskwolf is a good point.
Quote
I reveal my suspects; I forget to prove them. It does, however, Get nerjin to finally drop the roleplay. He also doesn't say what his actual arguement is, because he'd rather I just flail about innefectually, so that I get mislynched.These three end comments do have merit to them. Nerjin dropping roleplay does seem like an unneccesary overreaction. 4maskwolf's proposition that we go after scum that isn't flabort seems like a valid suggestion given flabort's revive (also deserved more discussion, not just getting attempted to be shut down), and the fact that Nerjin went after NQT for stuff also seems odd given the large list of people who haven't posted a lot (including Tiruin, Scripten, Slithuri, Varee, MBP, and Myself, as well as possibly you and Toaster).
He completely dismisses 4mask's point right after he says I dismissed his.
And he hasn't picked up the roleplaying again yet. Instead he's being really angry at NQT and deflecting her questions. And saying that she isn't putting in any work.
Post by: TolyK on August 19, 2014, 07:35:01 pm
I do love it, yes.Nerjin: Seems like a president (duh), like a mayor. Seemed like a third party, but that makes too many of them. Mixed read between town, third party and scum - mostly leaning on town, though.TolyK: Can you explain these? Posting reads without reasons doesn't help town. I know you've decided you love posting thoughts without explaining, but you really have to explain.
Cheeetar: More or less scum read. Answered questions with hidden accusations embedded and seemed to want to shoot me (skepticism is fine, but that's a bit too far, I think).
Tiruin: Pretty sure she's town due to behavior and circumstances.
Toaster: Town due to circumstances.
Varee: Town due to behavior and circumstances. Except that I don't get why he isn't claiming something, but on the other hand he probably shouldn't.
As I've said, I'll say tomorrow why. If I happen to die, you'll have to take it at face value (since I'm not lying here). I kinda hope I'll live, but the risk of death is smaller than possible rewards.
Post by: webadict on August 19, 2014, 07:57:24 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, TolyK, flabort,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee - notquitethere, Toaster,
Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin,
9 to Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 7 PMish CST (Approximately 23 hours from this post.)
Post by: Scripten on August 19, 2014, 08:31:34 pm
Scripten:Please define exactly how Flabort's behavior was anti-town. I have my own reasons, but I want to hear yours.I dont believe that flabort is scum as his day one move would be suicidal as a scum. I dont think playing that reckless will end well. I already tried that and everyone just pin the word scum on you(CYOM).
Ehh... WIFOM. Acting anti-town is acting anti-town, whether you are scum or not.
His posts are confusing, distracting, and riddled with terrible/nonexistent logic. I've said before that I believe he's either scum or possibly an anti-town Jester who wants lynched and to distrupt the town as much as possible. His votes are nonsensical and OMGUS-y, despite being fairly late into the second day, and even if he were town, he's definitely not helping us achieve our wincon by trying to "manipulate and decieve" us into doing his work for him. He's either playing poorly or playing to an anti-town wincon and I've held that he should be lynched for many RL days now.
I was mainly applauding the fact he mainly spent a lot of time and effort building a giant post with links and stuff in it. A giant case on you gives a lot of information, and flabort should be applauded for that. I also wanted to see what your reaction would be. You seriously overreacted to my post. Why are you so worried about a post that you believe is full of BS and is coming from someone who has been on the chopping block since D1, when no one has been voting you? Me saying that flabort's case has a few good points shouldn't be disconcerting, especially since I'm still voting him and mentioned that I still wanted to see flabort's roleflip. And fixing my post was unnecessary.
That post is BS, though. You had to pick through a mountainous pile of crap to get several barely servicable points out of that post. Walls of text aren't inherently commendable, even if they happen to be on target with a tiny fraction of their scattershot. I get that you're giving points where you feel they are deserved, but this doesn't look like good behavior in a pro-town player to me.
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?
You're town to me, Tiruin. I hadn't taken your cleared miller status from earlier into account. Persus13 reads town to me right now, but he's mostly null. I find his hunting to be legitimate and his motives so far seem pro-town, but it's hard to tell with only one flip and so many players.
Toaster
Quoting a question where I'm trying to prove a point and calling it bad hunting is pretty misleading.
That said, I'm having less issues with your play now, and am willing to back off for now.
Unvote Scripten.
Wait a second, I'd like to understand this a bit better. What, exactly, has changed in my play since your post besides me putting pressure on you? And why are all of your votes on people who aren't going to flip? You've gone from me to Varee, so I'm curious what you expect to achieve with your vote. I barely registered your vote initially and Varee is practically begging to be lynched. (Something probably activates in his power when he's lynched/killed and he wants to test it.) It's like you're keeping your vote safely applied but uncommitted.
Post by: flabort on August 19, 2014, 09:35:24 pm
Yes, I do think I'm clever. Now give me a reads list that does not include 4mask or myself. I know your opinions on both of us.
Alright. At least we have our views on drinking in common. Still isn't relevant.
I have a hard time believing that's all fluff.
My point with that "quote mining" is that you are already distracted, as per my plan.
Sure. None of my evidence is concrete, I said that when I was saying that I'd post the list today. You were pre-warned about that.
You were citing a headache. Not anger.
Is the word "easy" better then "lazy", then? You were giving him what he wanted.
Aknowledged.
Hah hah. I get it. That's sarcasm, right?
OK. I don't pay attention to personal text. Interesting to know that.
WHAT POINT?! YOU ALWAYS SAY WHAT I INTERPRET TO BE THE POINT IS NOT THE POINT, SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
You are the american in our small russian town. That means you are refering to yourself, that means that you have a powerful ally. OK, if what you are saying when you say "America stands for town" is not a flat out lie, then my point becomes BS, but I think you are a liar.
So you admit that you were refering to me. And you had said that the communists were attacking the reference to me, then, meaning that whether america is town or scum, the alignment that is opposite yours (communism opposite America) was attacking me. And since I'm town, that makes you scum. Also, if you were town, you'd have no way of knowing for sure that we were opposites and wouldn't so boldly declare us to be opposites; only scum start with that knowledge off the bat.
No, it didn't waste my time. Having to defend myself against scum like you in the first place wastes my time. Proving that you are opposite me is not a waste of time.
I hope you understand that this is an aggregate suspicion of abstracts and hidden clues. It's the sum total of all this that is my point; any one point being 100% proof of you being scum would be enough and I wouldn't have to make this "empty void of gibberish".
Your continued deflection is suspicious. If the name does not matter at all like you say, why not claim it instead of continuing to be scummy?
Yeah, a very clever idiot who plays mind games, who has a 140 IQ. I expect everyone to be able to focus on more than two players at a time. You must do excelent in LYLO.
It implied you were preparing for after I flip or don't already. You would be the only one doing that, but if you knew I was going to die from day kill, you would already consider it to be after the kill, which is effectively a lynch. And after the lynch comes day 2, so when you already had a day 2 perspective, it meant you were already triggering the day kill.
My point about NQT being predictable was that I knew that if I were the most suspicious, she would post a list of better candidates, and implore everyone not to lynch me. She always does that: Most suspicious person? Don't lynch them!
Yeah, the post has value. Worth it's weight in uranium. And you are blowing up over it.
Well it is. :P Seriously. You are making me more sure you did it with that response. The town Nerjin with no reason to let this bother him wouldn't be getting so upset over this.
I have seen "Hammer has hit, stop talking" so, so many times. You seriously have never seen that before? I find that hard to believe.
I know you're not willing to listen. But I keep getting responces.
Hmm. I think Varee is starting to pull "a Flabort". I don't think you'll ever think town is making a mistake, unless it's to trust you.
If I still haven't seen your point by now, then there's nothing to dismiss because you don't have a point, because I would have seen it going over the thread this many times.
It's not as much of a waste of time as you believe.
TL;DR The above: Reads on everyone but me and 4mask please, why not stop being so dodgy and scummy and claim your name if it doesn't matter?
Persus Oh. OK. That makes sense about the First Lady part. What about the "good men do nothing" bit?
OK, he explained the reference himself, but good to know.
Yes, I guess it is possible he could have multiple day abilities.
If it feels I tried to shoehorn anything in, I'm sorry, I did not, but I respect your opinion and will allow the roleflip now.
Oh, and my case on Cheeetar still stands, but nothing has happened on that front. And there's no point in voting Nerjin while there's no chance of him being lynched today. Cheeetar still has more votes on him.
Jack A T OK, if anyone were to pursue you for any reason, what do you think they would be accusing you over? I'm sorry that wasn't clear.
I'm using the answer to explain the reason; the reason did not come after the answer. I knew he usually does that, but his answer made it easier to explain.
I'll find some "evidence for [my] assertions" before the lynch, if I'm not hammered. OK?
My key points are that he is hiding massive amounts of hidden communications in his roleplay, is evasive as heck, and is getting upset over things that shouldn't upset him. To summarize in as brief as I can.
Scripten And I've said it before, you are either a anti-town third or a third scum. I was trying to manipulate, not decieve. When I flip, you will see that I am town, and that I actually have put in quite a bit of work tracking down and finding each of my four suspects.
Even if some of that post is BS or irrelevant, there are more servicable points than you give me credit for. I'd like to see YOU do a post-by-post analysis that doesn't have some useless information.
Post by: Imp on August 19, 2014, 09:56:58 pm
I have seen "Hammer has hit, stop talking" so, so many times.
flabort, what's your previous Mafia playing experience? I had been assuming you were a pretty new player, but you're just pretty new to this forum's Mafia games, is that correct? Or is even that wrong, and my search of the Mafia forum for your games what is failing me?
Also, extend. I believe we still have a second unused extension.
Post by: Jack A T on August 19, 2014, 10:21:25 pm
Jack A T OK, if anyone were to pursue you for any reason, what do you think they would be accusing you over? I'm sorry that wasn't clear.flabort: I do not carefully watch my activities for possible avenues of attack, and will not start now. However, I could see players (particularly NQT) going for me for not posting as often as I should.
I'm using the answer to explain the reason; the reason did not come after the answer. I knew he usually does that, but his answer made it easier to explain.Lovely. You're not engaging with my point at all. My point, of course, being that there was a lack of prior evidence that could even begin to support your assertion of 4mask and I having consistent reads of each other and a "mutual relationship of distancing," there was evidence that falsified your assertions of specific consistent reads, and thus that your asserted reasons for the 4mask and I group had clearly been made after the fact. The only evidence supporting the consistent reads claim that was your alleged reason for the group was the evidence you gathered in group questioning.
Essentially, your reason is bullshit not because you're using the answers to explain it, but because the evidence available when you allegedly made the groups could not have led you to have that reason.
I'll find some "evidence for [my] assertions" before the lynch, if I'm not hammered. OK?Alright. You had best do so quickly. There is not much time left.
My key points are that he is hiding massive amounts of hidden communications in his roleplay, is evasive as heck, and is getting upset over things that shouldn't upset him. To summarize in as brief as I can.Alright, thank you. I don't understand the part about "hidden communications," though. Why would scum do this? Why not use scumchat, which is much easier and safer to do than veiling communications in flavour? What is even the point of veiled statements like the ones you accuse him of making, like the below one?
"As your president I have been authorized..." means "My scum buddies are allowing me to...".
I'd like to see YOU do a post-by-post analysis that doesn't have some useless information.As a side note, flabort, this is why everybody hates post-by-post analyses. They almost always have a few points in them, but almost always buried in walls of crap. Nobody wants to read walls of crap. It would be a good idea, in the future, to try to remove the useless information and just give your important points and the evidence for them.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 20, 2014, 03:16:35 am
OK, going to where I manipulated Nerjin, and why he is scum.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can't really address all of this, nor should I, but there were some things that stuck out to me and I did say I'd respond to it earlier:
There's a lot of stuff here in which you 'pretend not to notice' things until later- is this a convenient way of saying you didn't see it as suspicious then, but realise now that it could be seen as so?
You mention a lot that you were trying to attract attention and suspicion- how do you see this as positive to the town?
You also mention that part of your manipulation of Nerjin is getting him to daykill you. How did you know he had a daykill before he used it? How do you know he's the one who daykilled you?
Unrelated: you still see me as very scummy. Would you like to reinforce your case on me? I've been posting a fair bit- you should be able to figure out some of the ways I've given myself away with your 140 IQ. Perhaps just restate the points you have on me apart from the fact that I've been voting for you?
Post by: Imp on August 20, 2014, 05:31:45 am
updated reads, on flabort and Varee:
Spoiler: flabort (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: varee (click to show/hide)
Varee:
You claim you targeted Toaster N1 with your claimed santa ability. The first thing you said about D2 was
so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so.Given that you targeted Toaster, why didn't you ask Toaster what the house he got was? Why did you even suspect at that point that Toaster didn't get it?
Toaster never said if he got it or not. Why have you not at all, at any point, directly asked Toaster about it - even though you used the words
Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lyingas a possible explanation of what happened? Do you often call people liars when they don't answer a question they were not even directly asked?
Toaster:
You didn't directly respond to Varee's question if someone got a house. He also didn't specifically question you about it. Why didn't you talk to him about this odd indirection, and the other odd things he said about it, like:
there a few thing that could have happen.
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
1.1 Flabort did not target me or toaster as if he target one of us either he would also get the power or toaster would get the power
1.2 Flabort lied about his power( well this is the most likely thing that happen)
2Toaster got the power but he dont want to tell us (I dont think this happen)
3 I totally misunderstand my power..... ( I dont think it is this one too, It might not be a house but i am positive i built something.)
Do you usually ignore when people say you may be lying, when you haven't even answered the question in any way - and haven't even directly been asked?
Post by: Imp on August 20, 2014, 05:37:26 am
flabort:
Meant to ask you, what did you mean when you posted this?
I don't see the rest of the game going well if you continue to lynch me.
Post by: Toaster on August 20, 2014, 08:12:04 am
That said, I'm having less issues with your [Scripten's] play now, and am willing to back off for now.Toaster: Please explain.
Yeah, I could have elaborated better here.
My original attack was that he was just coasting along, putting out a token vote, and not really looking elsewhere. Since then, he has expanded his horizons and looked elsewhere, so that's blunted the issue I had with him.
If he had voted with an explanation like this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5588225#msg5588225) instead of doing it later, I never would have voted him in the first place.
Varee (not hunting), TolyK (not giving any explanations for his suspicions), and Flabort (his odd claims and actions) are all much scummier than him now anyway.
Scripten:
Wait a second, I'd like to understand this a bit better. What, exactly, has changed in my play since your post besides me putting pressure on you? And why are all of your votes on people who aren't going to flip?
See above. As for where I place my vote, I put it where I damn well please. I feel zero obligation to vote for someone with a lot of votes already on them. A Flabort lynch seems pretty likely, so right now I can 1) use my vote on my top suspect [which I'd do anyway] 2) have a chance to tease out some side leads. If you're asking whether I'd vote for Cheeetar or Flabort, it'd be Flabort in a skinny minute.
Flabort: The top half of this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5588339#msg5588339) is unreadable.
Imp:
Toaster never said if he got it or not.
False:
Varee:so someone get the house. I will be real happy if whoever got it said so. Also on second thought it might not be a house. more like toilet or something.
Wasn't me. Did you target someone or just let it be random?
You didn't directly respond to Varee's question if someone got a house. He also didn't specifically question you about it. Why didn't you talk to him about this odd indirection, and the other odd things he said about it, like:
Also false; I did here:
Varee:The power is an auto trigger that will give a random player, including me, a new power according to their role every night. I have the ability to target someone, that is not myself, with it as a free action every night. The person that recieve the power then should be inform of it.
Just to clear this up: even if you target it, it's still an auto power? Or do you target a night action and it just fires off even if you don't target? Or some third thing?
He never answered me. I care less now because he's probably just lying scum, because if everyone was telling the truth, Flabort would have gotten something too. He never said he did.
Post by: Toaster on August 20, 2014, 08:14:26 am
Post by: Varee on August 20, 2014, 08:27:15 am
Ok I understand now that certain people take this game seriously so I will stop goofing around. My attempt of RIA is doing exactly what the wiki warn me will happen.
I dont believe it a LYLO situation but I wont denied that a lynch is useful to the town.
@Persus
-snip-I understand that my distraction may seem counter productive but I Hope I can justify it in this post.
more on lynch and power. From my brief look at other Web's game, the power seem to be well spread out in the town. There usually a few kill with in their rank, enough to take the scum with out needing a single lynch. There seem to be quite alot of day power too. I still suspect day one extend kill to be some reuseable power.
@Jack AT
Varee: Explain this statement. Also, give reads of everyone. What the fuck are you doing and why are you doing so little to scumhunt?The first part is a bit too much to ask of me right now but I will try put out a few and I will answer the second part.
@scripten
I dont believe mass claim should be weigh most on the person power list, more on the result of the power. It would atleast be certain contradiction and certain player will have to lie and certain will be telling half truth so even the power list dont tell much, it still more informing than a flip in my opinion.
I cant control my "urge to build" so to say so If scum have redirect then there almost nothing I can do to stop them from getting power unless someone make it unredirectable.
@toaster
I gave my PoV on why you did not recieve a power last night. I still believe that I was redirected but then it would have been target at me as flabort should be redirected to the same target unless it a randomise. I see no reason for you to vote me, All you said was you feel better about scripten and then vote me on case NQT is building so little explaintion?
I explain my power many times. It an unstoppable auto that fire of randomly unless I specifically target it at someone. You seem to be oblivious to that fact.
@cheetar
I appreciate your concern on my action, I will refrain on causing you anymore concern if possible. No promise though :P
I feel your reaction to flabort is totally justified. In situation of it either you or me there rarely any reason for you to kill yourself, unless you have to get lynch as a goal. Taking matter into your own hand is just risk management.
Me and my actions.
From the first day I was not very certain on how I was going to approach this amount of player. I tried to answer question directed at me and not get involve in big discussions seem to be a good idea but NQT keep at me and calling me out. I start my talk about power as I feel it a way to get people involve in something a bit closer to me. The Flabort oneshot cut it short though. I couldnt really make a decision on how I should use my power.
Day 2 approach is to try get someone to clarify the effect of my power. Imp I was not targeting toaster directly to give the feeling that I random target the power but people dont seem to buy it. People are splitting up on Flabort and Cheetar, which is a better lynch target. I decide to stay away from it. I dont need to get information to win the game, true, but playing with more information definitely will give you an upper hand. Why would people demand a flip if not for information?
Scripten ask me about voting and scare tactic so I FoS slithuri, putting on some pressure trying to get a reply but It seem that she is inactive. Intentionally causing distraction to draw attention to me did not go as I hope it would. Most of the respond seem a general PoV of player toward playing "Lazily". I dont think It is relate to player role in this game as much as i hope, I may be wrong though. Only respond from my action seem to be from scripten tirutin NQT Jack and cheetar. The rest either ignore me or is pursuing bigger prey.
Toaster strike me weird though. He seem to easily change his mind about his vote. I Still believe him to have good intent but that switch doesnt seem right.
So any question? I like to answer question more than asking so ask away i guess?
PPE: I type this in other word processor so format might be kind of wonky. And forgive me for all the grammar and spelling mistake am sure I am making :D
Post by: Silthuri on August 20, 2014, 08:49:41 am
Spoiler: A Few things that Bother Me (click to show/hide)
Will try for more in a few hours. Class starts soon.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 20, 2014, 09:15:48 am
Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.I'm fine with a Flabort lynch. I had honestly forgotten that I was still playing a game of mafia, so sorry for not posting.
The reasons why I'm okay with a Flabort lynch? For one, I don't have any other cases right now. I'll see if I can look over what has happened in my absence later today. For the second, his claims have become more and more wild as the day goes on.
Post by: notquitethere on August 20, 2014, 09:40:31 am
Post by: Persus13 on August 20, 2014, 09:40:42 am
Post by: notquitethere on August 20, 2014, 10:04:18 am
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, TolyK, flabort,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, 4maskwolf, Silthuri, NQT
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee - Toaster,
9 to Hammer
So everyone stop talking.
Post by: TolyK on August 20, 2014, 10:07:25 am
Post by: TolyK on August 20, 2014, 10:09:10 am
I'm sorry. Nobody talk.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 20, 2014, 10:51:13 am
Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.
ust woke up, won'tvote Flabort because that would be hammer i do think he is anti town of soem kind, but things can change, fast.
Post by: Persus13 on August 20, 2014, 11:10:26 am
NQT hammered already.Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, Varee, 4maskwolf, Tiruin: Why are you not voting? Are you content with the Flabort lynch? If you're not, you should vote otherwise, because at this point a vote for no one is a vote for Flabort.
ust woke up, won'tvote Flabort because that would be hammer i do think he is anti town of soem kind, but things can change, fast.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 20, 2014, 01:10:14 pm
Post by: webadict on August 20, 2014, 01:56:27 pm
Post by: webadict on August 20, 2014, 05:36:35 pm
"Now now, spuddies," he pleads, holding his hands up. "Let's not starch anything here. You're making a gravy mistake!"
Someone mashes him in the back of the head, causing him to throw up everywhere for absolutely no reason. ...There's an odd amount of potatoes, but no cake. Definitely wasn't him. Of course, the traumatic force means the ambulance has to take him away.
I hope he feels butter soon.
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, TolyK, flabort,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf, notquitethere,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee - Toaster,
Not Voting - Mysteriousbluepuppet, Varee, Tiruin,
flabort has been lynched!
flabort was SCP-1689 (town).
Send in your actions. Night ends Thursday 7 PMish CST (Approximately 26 hours from this post.)
Quote
flabort
Town
SCP-1689
You are a sack of potatoes. That’s cool. Here’s some horrible puns!
[REDACTED]
(Night) Latvian Dream [target]: If you use this action, actions targeting you directly fail. Actions targeting your target apply to you as well. Your target is unable to be blocked, redirected, or randomized.
(1-Shot) Vote-ato: You have one vote for every potato you have. Which is INFINITE! You may only vote up to two players at once.
Post by: webadict on August 21, 2014, 06:47:49 pm
13 remain...
notquitethere has been killed!
notquitethere was the Monte Carlo Casino Roulette Streak (town).
Persus13 has been killed!
Persus13 was The Role that Nerfs Shakerag’s Role (town).
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar -
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee -
Not Voting - Mysteriousbluepuppet, Varee, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf, IronyOwl, TolyK, Toaster,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 100+ hours from this post.)
Quote
notquitethere
Town
Monte Carlo Casino Roulette Streak
Breaking all gambler’s know about luck, you’ve decided that 26 times in a row isn’t enough for you. You can’t just let Luck control you. Nooo…
[REDACTED]
(Night) Ante Up [target]: You obtain a copy of a random action from the target for a cycle.
(1-Shot) Russian Roulette [target]: Spin the roulette. If it’s Red, the target dies. If it’s Black, you die. If it’s 0, you both die.
Quote
Persus13
Town
The Role that Nerfs Shakerag’s Role
You are the Role that Nerfs Shakerag’s Role. Haha ha hahaha haha.
[REDACTED]
(Night) Nerf [target]: You destroy an Auto ability the target has. If the target is Shakerag, you destroy two of his Auto abilities.
(1-Shot, Night) OP [target]: The target cannot be lynched, killed, blocked, tracked, inspected, looked at directly, eaten, shot to the moon, or actioned by Shakerag. In fact, nothing works on the target. They are immune to death and all abilities for one whole Cycle.
(1-Shot, Day) Lucky Number Thirteen: You gain an extra vote for the rest of this Day Phase.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 06:55:03 pm
Thoughts:
1) The REDACTED probably refers to Masons. Yay! Strange that they didn't do so much to prevent his lynch.
2) The revive he had wasn't his own (I think, unless it was in the REDACTED, which is unlikely.) So he was lying about having infinite revives- he was also lying about having revives full stop. I'm not sure what purpose this went towards- was he afraid of being nightkilled (why?)
3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed. In the event of this, here are my top suspects and why:
4maskwolf- Consistently scummy/suspicious low content, late bandwagon.
Varee- Nonparticipation in the lynch on either side, generally noncommital attitude, hasn't voted and was really focused on 'building'.
Town (most likely):
Tiruin- despite her inability to participate fully, her miller claim and the events that resulted from this (remaining pretty calm underneath my stupidity, broad focus scumhunting, involved in the game, claiming on the lost miller) make me believe she's town.
TolyK- I think it's likely he was one of Flabort's mason pals given how he acted. You guys- you can probably trust him! If he says I am scum, do not trust him though (please?)
Third Party (?):
Irony Owl I do not think is pro town at all. He was equally suspicious of Flabort as he was of me, but tunneled hard on me and that's pretty much the only involvement in the game he's had - I think he's a lyncher with me as a target.
Also: I potentially had involvement in the no night kills Night 1, but I'm not sure! I'll claim if a bandwagon starts on me, but I really do hope that doesn't occur.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 06:58:04 pm
Post by: flabort on August 21, 2014, 07:06:18 pm
Post by: Scripten on August 21, 2014, 07:08:32 pm
4maskwolf- Consistently scummy/suspicious low content, late bandwagon.
Varee- Nonparticipation in the lynch on either side, generally noncommital attitude, hasn't voted and was really focused on 'building'.
While I agree with these to an extent, your post strikes me as very odd. ESPECIALLY this bit here:
Quote
TolyK- I think it's likely he was one of Flabort's mason pals given how he acted. You guys- you can probably trust him! If he says I am scum, do not trust him though (please?)
Why did you write that and why do you think this will change how the game turns out? Why should we always trust TolyK unless he wants to lynch you?
Your anti-town read on Irony Owl seems OMGUS-y. Why do you think he's a lyncher and doesn't just think you're scum for that (admittedly somewhat justified) hammering? After all, you were at L-1 and he didn't quicklynch. If he was a lyncher, suspicious actions wouldn't matter after he'd gotten his wincon. Does this mean you think he's also a survivor?
PS: Sorry Flabort. Your gambit WAS super scummy, and ultimately the waters are now super muddy because there were plenty of legitimate reasons for any of us to vote you.
Post by: Persus13 on August 21, 2014, 07:09:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 07:17:28 pm
While I agree with these to an extent, your post strikes me as very odd. ESPECIALLY this bit here:QuoteTolyK- I think it's likely he was one of Flabort's mason pals given how he acted. You guys- you can probably trust him! If he says I am scum, do not trust him though (please?)
Why did you write that and why do you think this will change how the game turns out? Why should we always trust TolyK unless he wants to lynch you?
Not always trust him- I merely thought he was one of the few people who trusted Flabort, and seeing as at the time I thought the [REDACTED] was about masons, I thought TolyK might have been a mason along with him. So, y'know, towny and mostly trustworthy? I no longer believe that, but he was one of the few to not vote for Flabort's death or stand by the sidelines.
Your anti-town read on Irony Owl seems OMGUS-y. Why do you think he's a lyncher and doesn't just think you're scum for that (admittedly somewhat justified) hammering? After all, you were at L-1 and he didn't quicklynch. If he was a lyncher, suspicious actions wouldn't matter after he'd gotten his wincon. Does this mean you think he's also a survivor?
He mightn't've been quick enough to lynch me while I was at L-1. I acted pretty quickly, and I'm not sure if he was online.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 07:19:14 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 21, 2014, 10:48:59 pm
The redacted abilities are abilities that were stolen from the bodies upon their death. The rolecop himself can say who they targeted (I wasn't privy to that information), but I have told you what I know. More substantial post in the morning.
At least, I have to assume the fact that I was given the action results of two players was due to another player's action, since I have no power (even in my new, stronger form) that would give me such an ability.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 10:51:08 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 21, 2014, 10:55:09 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 10:58:01 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 10:59:37 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 21, 2014, 11:04:28 pm
Also: Did the result of the rolecop's investigation tell us what powers those who had them stolen had? Because that might be useful to us.Nope. It discovered the thieving ability itself.
Also, you're forgetting IO.
But yeah, since you guessed it, it is MBP. And MBP, good news: I'm now a bodyguard. I grew up from being a cute playful pup and am now man's best friend.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 11:05:36 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 21, 2014, 11:10:54 pm
Probably don't tell us more than is strictly necessary to eliminate that guy who steals role abilities.One more thing, that may be good to know: NQT was not killed by an ability backfire. I roleblocked him last night, and I did not get a report of my action failing (unlike N1), so he was locked down. Someone out and out killed him.
Post by: Imp on August 21, 2014, 11:43:42 pm
4maskwolf, are you willing to tell us everything you know about the ability theft ability?
Failing that, are you able to tell from it if the person who has it gets -all- the abilities that have been REDACTED, or only keeps the most recent, or however else that ability may be limited?
Are you willing to tell us why you picked NQT to roleblock last night?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 21, 2014, 11:46:17 pm
And i think i got the rolestealer, just need confirmation from Wubbah. Ill give it to yah soon.
The ability steal is a Auto that that scavenge the ability of a dead player, and REDACTED it. Also, losing it = death, apparently.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 21, 2014, 11:56:53 pm
Post by: Imp on August 22, 2014, 12:03:26 am
Several things in your D3 opening post seem odd to me. Especially understanding that you wrote it during N2, so you weren't rushed, right?
Why did 'REDACTED' make you think 'Mason'? REDACTED is used for many 'classified' things, it's especially all over the SCP website that flabort's role was from. Everyone who has roleflipped has had a REDACTED showing, and for all four of them it's been their first ability. I think someone has an auto that hides the first ability from each flip.
It seems weird to me that seeing REDACTED in Shakerag's flip and REDACTED in flabort's flip, you would decide that flabort's REDACTED meant he was a mason. Would you please explain your reasoning?
Also, why do you think TolyK is a Mason as well?
What do you mean by this:
Dang. I honestly did not expect Flabort to be town. I maintain that he behaved really scummily. I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.
Are you claiming it's your 'fault' that flabort was Town, or your fault that he was lynched? Why do you expect people to not be happy with you; what have you done that you are so worried about?
Why do you believe this?
3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed.
Do you believe that you are about to be hammered instantly day killed? Why? Any why you, out of all of us?
Your post 711 looks a lot like a 'final post of the day' to me, or a post made right before someone thinks they are about to die. It looks rushed and it starts and explains your suspicions, but the only question you ask in it is struckthrough because it has to do with NQT's hammering, and NQT is dead.
Why are you so focused on 'I am about to die' and not at all focusing on asking questions or interacting with people, your top scum picks or anyone? Are you so sure of your top suspects that for you there's nothing left to discuss?
Also: I'm reading him as a lyncher and not just scum because he should've been fine with a Flabort lynch if he was scum. Instead, he was pretty much tunneling me for the entire day, and not doing much else.
Cheeetar, you're talking about IronyOwl, who you said you think is your lyncher?
As I look back over IronyOwl's posts (there's only 12 of them, Irony posts less than most players), I see a lot of discussion with a lot of players. I also note that she didn't post at all on the last hours of D2, her last post was on the 17th, about 63 hours before flabort's hammering vote.
Can you point out where and how she's talking to you like a lyncher, as opposed to reasonable scum hunting? I don't see the tunnelling you're talking about and I don't see exclusive focus on you.
And, one older issue:
Is there anything you're willing to add to what you said here, about what you did or tried to do to Tiruin?...And thanks, but it seems someone swapped it (given the wording) or stole it. Less likely the latter.
I think I may have had something to do with it. I didn't receive much info on my PM from Webadict.
Varee: You've talked about a theory that someone has a daykill they get to use when we vote to Extend. Do you still believe this theory? If you do, will you explain why you think we didn't see a daykill when D2 was extended?
Anything further you are willing to tell us about your santa ability, and/or how you used it last night?
IronyOwl: It's been a few days since we last heard from you. Are you coming back? What are your reads?
Silthuri: Positive thought beams from me to you too, I hope things continue to get much better. Are you current on the thread? Do you predict needing more time of not being able to really play?
Mysteriousbluepuppet: With your college about to start, and work schedule issues, are you able to play? Have you gotten more caught up on the thread? Do you have time for the game scheduled in during your about to start college/work schedule, or do you think you may need to replace? Or is night game enough, and daytime scumhunting something that just has to be set aside?
Jack A T:
Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?Imp: Had we lynched anyone else, Shakerag's powers would have been quite disruptive and town-damaging for the entire game, concealing the alignments and powers of both the D1 lynch and the N1 killed.
Shakerag wasn't Town and needed to play to make Town lose, and it's annoying and challenging for us all to not to see roleflips. But Shakerag's Sorry! power probably would have prevented some (or many) night deaths, notably N2 instead of losing both NQT and Persus, we would have only lost one of them.
There is mafia and (probably) at least one serial killer in play; unless the mafia converts there are at least two anti-town killing alignments/killing abilities. The Sorry! auto would have slowed night deaths, and likely delayed or outright prevented all but one night death. Any Town nightkills would have also been leashed, but we have reason to believe there's more than one non-Town killer out there, and alive. Shakerag alive put limits on the nightkills.
Simultaneously, Shakerag could speak with the dead while still alive; granted he was not Town and any use he made of information from this would have not been intentionally for Town's benefit, but when we started to see multiple roleflips of 'Shakerag Did it (Town)' the pressure we put on Shakerag could have gotten information offered to us that Town could use, even if Shakerag offered it just to try and save his own neck for longer.
Furthermore, Shakerag's lynch was in place of a possible directly deadly to Town target. Did you not consider these things when you declared Shakerag probably the best D1 lynch target? Or why do you feel that hidden flips are that much worse than a limit on the rate of night kills + the lynch of someone who might have been an anti-Town killer or converter?
Tiruin: Anything you'd like to tell us about how Filler went for you? I hope the distressing stuff leaves you alone soon. You're a skilled player and we could really use your involvement and help when you can give it.
Scripten: At one time (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) you said you thought 4maskwolf was flabort's scumbuddy. Would you review your case on 4mask and how it has changed over time?
Quite a few people have said I'm a null read to them.
Why do/did I and IronyOwl seem more Town to you than others in the game? Specifically, why do I and IronyOwl appear more Town to you than Persus13, who you are specifically asked about and answer, 10 hours later:So who do you people think is the most town right now?
Most town? Probably IronyOwl and Imp. Most everyone is null save for a few.
What's your detailed viewpoint on Persus13 and I?
You're town to me, Tiruin. I hadn't taken your cleared miller status from earlier into account. Persus13 reads town to me right now, but he's mostly null. I find his hunting to be legitimate and his motives so far seem pro-town, but it's hard to tell with only one flip and so many players.
4maskwolf: You've told us you are rather burned out of Mafia, and recently mentioned you'd even forgotten you were still playing in a Mafia game. Do you only play this game for the night game, and do you feel that's enough for a good mafia game?
I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Ready to share your theories yet?
Nerjin, Toaster, TolyK; ran out of time in my rereading to focus on you guys. More tomorrow.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 22, 2014, 12:07:18 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 12:48:58 am
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Varee, do you plan on voting today?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 01:04:58 am
There's two things that really struck me as strange about Irony Owl's attack on me- one, unlike pretty much everyone else, she thought my vote on Flabort was proof of me being scum (which seemed and continues to seem strange to me.)
Erp. By this, I meant: my vote on Shakerag
Post by: IronyOwl on August 22, 2014, 01:27:09 am
3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed. In the event of this, here are my top suspects and why:I suspect you have time to scumhunt and respond to my megapost. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5577890#msg5577890)
Varee:
Ok I understand now that certain people take this game seriously so I will stop goofing around. My attempt of RIA is doing exactly what the wiki warn me will happen.Do you intend to scumhunt today? If the post you reply to this in does not contain scumhunting, append a "When? Why aren't you doing so yet?" to that.
I dont believe it a LYLO situation but I wont denied that a lynch is useful to the town.
So any question? I like to answer question more than asking so ask away i guess?
4mask:
To clarify: I know the identities of the tracker and the rolecop. I'm not going to say who, because if they are town I want to protect their identities unless they choose to claim. The tracker probably shouldn't: you don't really have much info to share, at least not from last night (nothing adverse happened to TolyK). The rolecop, however, may want to, and I'll tell you that this player's name can be easily shortened to an acronym (which should narrow it down for you, so you know I'm telling the truth if this person does choose to claim).Why'd you mostly but not explicitly out a rolecop?
One more thing, that may be good to know: NQT was not killed by an ability backfire. I roleblocked him last night, and I did not get a report of my action failing (unlike N1), so he was locked down. Someone out and out killed him.This is good to know.
Imp:
IronyOwl: It's been a few days since we last heard from you. Are you coming back? What are your reads?Yeah, sorry.
Reads are mostly what you'd expect: A lot of null reads on powerful players and dubious reads on players who might be scum or just weak.
Cheeetar's scummy as hell, but his flailings are starting to remind me of flabort. I'm not gonna lose sleep over killing him, but if I had a choice between right now or later I'd wait and see.
4mask seems lurky/activelurky in a lazy way, as opposed to others who are claiming IRL difficulties or who seem... I don't know, more naturally useless I guess? I haven't been impressed with TolyK's contributions, for instance, but he seems to wear it well.
Tiruin's miller business seems to semi-confirm her. I guess third party could be a miller, but it'd be mostly redundant unless they could bribe their way out with power usage.
Scripten's play bothered me D1 but seems more solid now. I haven't had a chance to go examine that in more detail, so I can't swear he's not just going for the target I like instead of the target I don't like or something.
Toaster's a good player, but it seems like he's going exclusively after easy targets. That bothers me.
Jack A T I've tried to review in the writing of this post, and has proven an utter monster. If he's scum we're probably fucked.
Otherwise it's mostly null/uncertain reads.
Toaster, I can't help but notice that the only semisolid player you've gone after this game was Scripten, whom you bailed off of immediately on their doing anything. Do you intend to do any big game hunting today, or harass TolyK, Varee, and anyone who's not voting?
Jack A T, what does flabort's lynch tell you?
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 01:48:08 am
Anyways, jokes aside, I'm sort-of an inspector, though not necessarily.
It turns out that Toaster is the neutral third party, by the way. I thought it more likely that Flabort was it, but it happens to not. I inspected Toaster N1 and got two results, "town" and "neutral". That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town. Toaster is a third party, but likely not the serial killer (more like survivor, as that's a good counter to an SK). Flabort is somehow town with all that bs. Well, whatever.
This night I investigated NQT and got Town. Unfortunately, this means I have lost a night (and possibly incriminated myself as well).
I'm interested in what MBP and 4mask say/will say.
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 01:52:26 am
<.<
Post by: IronyOwl on August 22, 2014, 02:03:04 am
It turns out that Toaster is the neutral third party, by the way. I thought it more likely that Flabort was it, but it happens to not. I inspected Toaster N1 and got two results, "town" and "neutral". Toaster is a third party, but likely not the serial killer (more like survivor, as that's a good counter to an SK). Flabort is somehow town with all that bs. Well, whatever.What does this mean and how did it lead you to tell us you were 98% sure we shouldn't lynch Toaster and 60-75% sure we shouldn't lynch flabort?
That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
This night I investigated NQT and got Town. Unfortunately, this means I have lost a night (and possibly incriminated myself as well).Then why'd you claim at all? Say about what?
I'm interested in what MBP and 4mask say/will say.
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 02:19:26 am
That's to certain people, since I don't want to claim everything.
I claimed so that people won't go "but what did you do this night? I saw you go kill NQT" or the like.
Will say about the redacting. Actually, rereading, I realized that 4mask wants to say no more, which is fine.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 03:45:06 am
Cheeetar:3) I am likely going to be lynched, or possibly even day killed. In the event of this, here are my top suspects and why:I suspect you have time to scumhunt and respond to my megapost. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5577890#msg5577890)
Yep, I'll give it a try now. I am going to cut it down a bit (especially the quote pyramids) for my own readability as much as anybody elses. If I don't address something in particular or misrepresent your points, let me know.
Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)
This is, I acknowledge, not the best response. I find it hard to respond in length to these things. If you're legitimately interested in interrogating/investigating me (if you aren't already 100% sure I'm scum, or you're a lyncher) I would welcome your efforts to highlight important things I should note and respond to.
and... I'll try to get some more reads than were in my first post today out later tonight.
Post by: notquitethere on August 22, 2014, 04:19:34 am
Post by: Varee on August 22, 2014, 07:07:34 am
There not only Death power theft, one of my power was stolen too so there someone that can take people power out there.
Hey and both people that is trying to get me lynch is dead yeah!
Wait wait dont point fingers yet. thoses two dont only suspect em but they are one that push thoses who are less than active.
Enough nonsense !
Toaster: Explain your move yesterday, What the deal with scripten and vote swing?
Imp: I still believe there alot of other power going around. someone is building quite a pool and there might be a day kill or extend kill among them.
Wolf and Slithuri : What do you think of NQT death? He seem to be the one that suspect the "less than active players" a lot. Do you think this will bring suspicious to us?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 07:26:32 am
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Very busy, not so many posts (understandable.) Find it hard to understand his posts on occasion. If the rolecop thing turns out well, should be good. Town read due to claim, would be reading as scum if not.
Varee: Doesn't want to play the day phase, really, and would prefer it if people left him out of it altogether (apart from him having willing subjects for his night activity.) Suspicious! Has been for ages.
Nerjin: I felt suspicious of him at the start- his roleplaying seemed to be hiding noncontent. Been much more engaged towards the end of Day 1 and through Day 2. Nerjin: I would like to see your thoughts on the Flabort flip.
Scripten: Broad-ish focus Day 1, vision narrowed Day 2 given the whole Flabort situation. Similarly critical of Varee and 4maskwolf. Slight town?
Jack A T: Very dense posts. Late on the Flabort lynch, only after Flabort claimed that the lynch would be able to kill him. Clearly good at the game, attentive, hasn't said anything particularly insightful. Mild scum?
Imp: Engaged but has been busy on occasion. Focus & interesting questions on quite a few people. Town read.
Silthuri: Late on the Flabort lynch, but good reasoning for it. Hasn't been able to engage much. Null.
TolyK: One of the few people who thought Flabort was ultimately not scum, wasn't afraid to say so. Not a mason. Still reading as slight town. Upon reading his posts, it seems he claimed a bit later to believe that Flabort was third party. TolyK, what do you think was his eventual plan as town, given his 'mass manipulation' of people?
Toaster: Very much on the sidelines for the Flabort lynch, feeling that the Flabort lynch was likely so he would go after other people. Could've been using it as an excuse to not vote for a town- not feeling that, though. Good follow through on Varee questioning, paying attention to lots of different strands of conversation. Town? Toaster: You FoS'd TolyK for his posting during Day 2- are you still suspicious of him following the lynch and night's results?
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 07:39:54 am
Also, about Toaster.
You're a survivor, and now I'm pretty damn sure. You have taken jabs at people, but have otherwise been noncommittal. You aren't really questioning anyone, as far as I've noticed, but are making sure you don't seem scummy either. Basically, you're doing very well to stay neutral in most respects. I wouldn't have guessed if I hadn't expected you.
What do you plan to do, eh? [/inb4 Canada jokes]
Post by: Silthuri on August 22, 2014, 08:42:43 am
Silthuri: Positive thought beams from me to you too, I hope things continue to get much better. Are you current on the thread? Do you predict needing more time of not being able to really play?Thank you! I was fairly current up until day end. Semester just started for me and I'm settling back into my schedule. This should mean that I'll be around much more than I was, surprisingly enough. I might be able to get in two/three posts a day, depending on the amount of homework and closeness to an exam.
Varee:
Wolf and Slithuri : What do you think of NQT death? He seem to be the one that suspect the "less than active players" a lot. Do you think this will bring suspicious to us?
Possible Vig or SK kill?? He didn't seem like a good candidate for a scum kill. I would suspect 4mask of lying about NQT not killing himself with his ability, but I fail to see why NQT would use his ability so early on someone who didn't seem really scummy. I don't see it coming back on the "less than active players." Especially those who have legitimate reasons to be absent.
Will try to get in another post later today containing reads.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 22, 2014, 10:53:02 am
Post by: Toaster on August 22, 2014, 11:04:39 am
For the record:
Shakerag: An auto that does nothing, but is removed first if an auto ability is removed.
Flabort: His revive, which pretty much works as he claimed it
NQT: He can dictate how random abilities work. Therefore, it's extremely safe to assume that he didn't kill himself, block claims notwithstanding.
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
I don't have any non-auto actions. And yes, if I lose that auto, I die.
More coming later; wanted to get that out.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 22, 2014, 11:38:02 am
4maskwolf, are you willing to tell us everything you know about the ability theft ability?I'm actually not allowed to say any more. Sorry.
Failing that, are you able to tell from it if the person who has it gets -all- the abilities that have been REDACTED, or only keeps the most recent, or however else that ability may be limited?
Are you willing to tell us why you picked NQT to roleblock last night?Yes I am. I targeted him for the same reason I targeted Cheeetar N1: I was suspicious of him due to his hammer, particularly his given reasons for it.
4maskwolf: You've told us you are rather burned out of Mafia, and recently mentioned you'd even forgotten you were still playing in a Mafia game. Do you only play this game for the night game, and do you feel that's enough for a good mafia game?No, I play for the day game too.I have a couple of theories on no night deaths, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you all them (tomorrow as in tomorrow, not as in day 3).
Ready to share your theories yet?
I did tell you my theories, but since my role has evolved I'll tell you what could have happened:
My old role was kill resistant: the first time a given player targeted me with a kill action, it would fail.
4mask:I'm not allowed to say any more on the matter. I'm sorry.To clarify: I know the identities of the tracker and the rolecop. I'm not going to say who, because if they are town I want to protect their identities unless they choose to claim. The tracker probably shouldn't: you don't really have much info to share, at least not from last night (nothing adverse happened to TolyK). The rolecop, however, may want to, and I'll tell you that this player's name can be easily shortened to an acronym (which should narrow it down for you, so you know I'm telling the truth if this person does choose to claim).Why'd you mostly but not explicitly out a rolecop?
Wolf and Slithuri : What do you think of NQT death? He seem to be the one that suspect the "less than active players" a lot. Do you think this will bring suspicious to us?I've told you what I know of NQT's death.
Okay, so.
On the whole Toaster having these powers thing.
I'd vote him, but TolyK has vouched for him. This could be a quick reaction to save his scumbuddy, but I can't confirm this and am going to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 11:47:14 am
Well, this makes perfect sense.
Lynching Toaster is silly as he has a revive. He's also almost definitely a survivor, with an auto called "lawless scavenger" to boot. I do not know what to do with him, given we have an SK (unless Wuba made the ultimate Skakerag troll) and mafia as well, and three townies dead.
Wait. 4mask. Why can't you say more? Did Wuba make an error, or did your buddies tell you not to?
Post by: Scripten on August 22, 2014, 12:09:07 pm
Scripten: At one time (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5573292#msg5573292) you said you thought 4maskwolf was flabort's scumbuddy. Would you review your case on 4mask and how it has changed over time?
Honestly, as we go into the new day, 4maskwolf does appear more town to me, and not only because of Flabort's flip. I'm not sure where I want to go to lynch scum, honestly. I am definitely feeling like Toaster is a third party, but he may also be scum who's trying to pass himself off as a harmless outsider role.
Varee is doing a little better with scumhunting but he's also setting off a ton of red flags in my head. Granted, he's done that whenever I play in the same game, so it can be tough to get a good read on him.
Also, flavor note. [REDACTED] is a trope used in the SCP files website to act as a sort of thematic veil over information meant to be kept in the dark. May have relevance to Flabort's role. He may have a hidden power.
Post by: Toaster on August 22, 2014, 01:06:33 pm
I am The Player of BYOR 13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply. Apparently that means 1) I don't get actual actions 2) I don't care for the normal Town/Mafia alignment rules. I was hoping for some sort of crazy outsider alignment, or a hilarious role that could edit posts and talk at night and such hilarity, but alas.
I have no actions to claim because I have no non-auto actions.
Scripten:
Also, flavor note. [REDACTED] is a trope used in the SCP files website to act as a sort of thematic veil over information meant to be kept in the dark. May have relevance to Flabort's role. He may have a hidden power.
Or I ate his revive.
I'm starting to believe TolyK's motives now, though his claiming methodology still baffles me.
TolyK: What do you know of Varee? Why did you give a percentage on Tiruin and Flabort when you hadn't inspected them for actual information?
Cheeetar: The above lines should answer your question. Can you confirm you were blocked N1?
Irony:
Toaster, I can't help but notice that the only semisolid player you've gone after this game was Scripten, whom you bailed off of immediately on their doing anything. Do you intend to do any big game hunting today, or harass TolyK, Varee, and anyone who's not voting?
I'll shoot it straight: I want to find that SK. Given his claims, I doubt it's TolyK (pending his answers to the questions above) and it's clearly not Flabort, so I'm going to continue to check on Varee and also broaden my search.
Varee:
Toaster: Explain your move yesterday, What the deal with scripten and vote swing?
It's exactly as I said. His D2 start was wimpy, but then he beefed up his game later in the day.
Are you ever going to vote anyone? Also, I can't help but notice your so-claimed easily confirmable power has consistently failed to deliver.
Going to do some digging. Did I miss anything?
Post by: Scripten on August 22, 2014, 01:21:33 pm
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.
I am The Player of BYOR 13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply. Apparently that means 1) I don't get actual actions 2) I don't care for the normal Town/Mafia alignment rules. I was hoping for some sort of crazy outsider alignment, or a hilarious role that could edit posts and talk at night and such hilarity, but alas.
I have no actions to claim because I have no non-auto actions.
Alright. Why should we trust you to work toward the goals of the town? If the game ends with a mafia win, all you have to do is be in the subset of players left. Therefore, making easy lynches benefits your role and that makes you a liability. Can you explain how I'm wrong, if you think I am?
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 01:28:16 pm
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.Yup.
Quote from: Toaster
I'm starting to believe TolyK's motives now, though his claiming methodology still baffles me.My claiming methodology is insane, but it works. :D
TolyK: What do you know of Varee? Why did you give a percentage on Tiruin and Flabort when you hadn't inspected them for actual information?
I actually inspected Flabort through his hiding at your place. With actions copying. It was the only logical explanation to getting a double inspect result.
Tiruin has unknowingly confirmed herself as non-scum. Well, she knows now, but she couldn't have at the time.
Varee, who I thought I knew something about, is unknown now. I suspect he's not the SK you're looking for (see? how good that I've blown your cover!), though.
Scripten, as long as he's looking for an SK I'm fine with him living. You can't kill him now, anyways, because he must be double-killed.
Post by: Scripten on August 22, 2014, 01:33:19 pm
Scripten, as long as he's looking for an SK I'm fine with him living. You can't kill him now, anyways, because he must be double-killed.
I'm aware of these points. I'm just curious about what Toaster thinks about his play in the later part of the game. Is he going to just become flotsam?
Post by: Toaster on August 22, 2014, 02:05:55 pm
Alright. Why should we trust you to work toward the goals of the town? If the game ends with a mafia win, all you have to do is be in the subset of players left. Therefore, making easy lynches benefits your role and that makes you a liability. Can you explain how I'm wrong, if you think I am?
For now, nobody can win as long as that SK is alive. It's in everyone's interest to eliminate him/her.
Beyond that, having a revive makes me more town-sided, since the typical "help us or we'll kill you" mentality of the Mafia toward survivors does not apply; they gain nothing by shooting me.
And no, I'm not going to just post "lol sup" every day to avoid a force replace after the SK is removed, if that's your question. I'll still do up some work then.
TolyK:
Varee, who I thought I knew something about, is unknown now. I suspect he's not the SK you're looking for (see? how good that I've blown your cover!), though.
Why?
Post by: Toaster on August 22, 2014, 02:22:49 pm
Code: [Select]
4maskwolf: Claimed roleblocker. Claimed to be now a bodyguard. Saw MBP's rolecop and an as-yet-unnamed tracker. Said tracker tracked a player to TolyK.
TolyK: Claimed cop. Something possibly negative happened to whoever targeted him N2.
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Claimed rolecop. Targeted Toaster N2, saw [REDACTED]-ifier ability.
Nerjin: Tried to pardon Shakerag. From this, almost certainly not the person who daykilled Flabort. Despite Shakerag being SK-Ally, probably not the SK because this would be a dangerously obvious use of a power. Plus, a SK with a pardon? Really?
Scripten: Light hunting early on, has improved.
Tiruin: Due to her miller and its removal, which was claimed by Persus (town), is almost certainly not Mafia. Probably town, too.
Toaster: Survivor. Is grabbing the abilities that have been [REDACTED].
Varee: It's day 3 and he hasn't used his vote yet. Claimed to give out a house nightly; this hasn't happened yet.
Somebody is a tracker.
Somebody caused 4mask to see two other night results.If a name isn't on the list, I haven't got anything on that player yet. I left off Cheeetar's hammer because I'm not sure if it's really alignment-relevant; gut's saying no on that one.
Post by: TolyK on August 22, 2014, 03:19:35 pm
Probably influenced by what happened N1.
Post by: Varee on August 22, 2014, 07:02:12 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 07:07:20 pm
Cheeetar: The above lines should answer your question. Can you confirm you were blocked N1?
I can confirm that I got the response of "One or more of your abilities has failed." on Night 1.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 07:15:20 pm
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Why would Persus have this part of his role if all Shakerag had was autos? You're saying Shakerag's first auto was completely useless except as a buffer against Persus13?
Post by: Jack A T on August 22, 2014, 09:35:44 pm
Hey and both people that is trying to get me lynch is dead yeah!Varee: Yes, let's all celebrate the deaths of townies that suspected you. ...I assume that's what you're doing here (correct me if I'm wrong).
Scripten ask me about voting and scare tactic so I FoS slithuri, putting on some pressure trying to get a replyA reasonless FoS is not exactly pressure. At all.
Intentionally causing distraction to draw attention to me did not go as I hope it would.What did you hope would happen? Why did you try to do this? Also, I still want your reads. Who do you think is most likely to be scum, and why have you not been able to give that information for days? Finally, what do you feel comfortable telling us about your power loss?
I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.Cheeetar: Explain.
Jack A T, what does flabort's lynch tell you?IronyOwl: It tells me that everything flabort did was intended to help the town somehow. More importantly, that is a lynch that scum almost certainly would not have completely avoided. Incredibly easy mislynch. Probably a few anti-town players on the lynch. I intend to go back through Day 2 later (probably during the weekend) and see who focused almost completely or completely on flabort, and who was just sort of on the lynch.
Jack A T:Imp: Knowing what we now know about Shakerag, how long do you think he should have been kept alive? Considering every death with him alive is a death without the high-value roleflip information, do you believe the cumulative loss of information is outweighed by the value of players (quite likely including scum and/or third parties) kept alive?
Shakerag wasn't Town and needed to play to make Town lose, and it's annoying and challenging for us all to not to see roleflips. But Shakerag's Sorry! power probably would have prevented some (or many) night deaths, notably N2 instead of losing both NQT and Persus, we would have only lost one of them.
There is mafia and (probably) at least one serial killer in play; unless the mafia converts there are at least two anti-town killing alignments/killing abilities. The Sorry! auto would have slowed night deaths, and likely delayed or outright prevented all but one night death. Any Town nightkills would have also been leashed, but we have reason to believe there's more than one non-Town killer out there, and alive. Shakerag alive put limits on the nightkills.
Simultaneously, Shakerag could speak with the dead while still alive; granted he was not Town and any use he made of information from this would have not been intentionally for Town's benefit, but when we started to see multiple roleflips of 'Shakerag Did it (Town)' the pressure we put on Shakerag could have gotten information offered to us that Town could use, even if Shakerag offered it just to try and save his own neck for longer.The pressure placed on Shakerag would likely get him to say a bunch of stuff, yes. Said stuff would have been of limited (and quite possibly negative) value to the town. Limited because dead townies tend to be careful around mediums (especially ones like Shakerag after a non-flip) and would likely have been careful about giving him information, because dead scum would have lied about their alignments and quite likely their powers, and because Shakerag could not be trusted to give us unfiltered information (he could, say, lie about inspection results to protect his SK). That is to say, the stuff would have been of limited value due to being information from dubious sources filtered through a dubious (and, as we know now, malicious) source. The high chance of harm to the town comes from the WIFOMiness of all information gained through this, the more direct damage caused by the inevitable misinformation that would come out, and the massive and distracting debate(s) over whether to trust anything Shakerag says dragging us away from scumhunting.
Would you have been willing to depend on what Shakerag would have said about the dead?
Furthermore, Shakerag's lynch was in place of a possible directly deadly to Town target. Did you not consider these things when you declared Shakerag probably the best D1 lynch target? Or why do you feel that hidden flips are that much worse than a limit on the rate of night kills + the lynch of someone who might have been an anti-Town killer or converter?I considered those things. In the early game, valuable information generally outweighs the life of a townie. Information as valuable as flips, when coming along with the death of an anti-town entity and the prevention of a nightly random randomize, easily outweighs one or two lives that may or may not even be town. Lynching Mafia without a flip, while good, leaves us without the information allowing people to make well-thought-out attempts to connect players (yes, people try to make such connections anyway without flips, but the results are usually quite poor). Lynching the SK, while useful, does not immediately outweigh the importance of keeping death flips working. The "probably" was in my statement pretty much due to the chance of a cult leader.
Post by: Varee on August 22, 2014, 09:54:34 pm
Quote
Quote from: Varee on 22,August 2014, 07:07:34 pm (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5595046#msg5595046)[/size]Hey and both people that is trying to get me lynch is dead yeah!
[/color]Varee[/font][/size]: Yes, let's all celebrate the deaths of townies that suspected you. ...I assume that's what you're doing here (correct me if I'm wrong).[/size]
[/size]Am being rather sarcastic if you havent notice.[/size]
Quote
[/color]Quote from: Varee on 20,August 2014, 08:27:15 pm (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5589258#msg5589258)Intentionally causing distraction to draw attention to me did not go as I hope it would.
What did you hope would happen? Why did you try to do this? Also, I still want your reads. Who do you think is most likely to be scum, and why have you not been able to give that information for days? Finally, what do you feel comfortable telling us about your power loss?[/font]
Reads are rather hard. I am not comfortable with doing them. I can talk about my power loss though. It a oneshot kill that ignore protect. it was stolen last night.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 10:26:33 pm
I've written this up before day time (just in case I survived!) because I am very aware of the fact that this was my fault and people will not be happy with me.Cheeetar: Explain.
I led a lynch against a townie who thought I was scum. Now that he's a confirmed townie, I expected at least some people to immediately want to lynch me. I'm... pleasantly surprised?
Jack, who are your top scum picks apart from Varee?
Also: It probably would've been best to gut the SK rather than the SK-ally re: your opinion on best possible lynch. Were the SK out of the game, the SK-ally would instantly fail and thus leave the game, right? (I do think a Shakerag lynch was an incredibly lucky occurrence, though.)
Post by: Jack A T on August 22, 2014, 10:51:37 pm
I led a lynch against a townie who thought I was scum. Now that he's a confirmed townie, I expected at least some people to immediately want to lynch me. I'm... pleasantly surprised?Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe that leading a mislynch against someone who thinks the mislynch leader is scum is scummy enough to warrant an immediate lynch effort against the mislynch leader? Enough to warrant a daykill?
Jack, who are your top scum picks apart from Varee?On scumpicks: I'll be working on getting that together this weekend.
Also: It probably would've been best to gut the SK rather than the SK-ally re: your opinion on best possible lynch. Were the SK out of the game, the SK-ally would instantly fail and thus leave the game, right?
On SKs and their allies: The SK wincon does not explicitly require the SK to be alive, and Wuba has spoken before about (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.msg2226339#msg2226339) how SKs should not need to be alive to win. The SK-ally would be in a very bad situation, but I see no reason for an automatic loss when the SK (and by extension, the ally) can still win.
Varee: Apologies for the lack of quotes here. I'm not dealing with the piles of tags.
Unmarked sarcasm is often hard to recognize in text. Do be careful.
The fact that you made that remark is still interesting, and jokes can say a lot about their tellers in this game. Why did you make that remark? Do you feel happy that your attackers died?
As for your lack of reads, is there at least anyone you suspect of being scum of any sort? If not, why not?
Post by: Varee on August 22, 2014, 11:20:11 pm
Varee: Apologies for the lack of quotes here. I'm not dealing with the piles of tags.Well i thought it is better tyo point that out as if not it will bring suspision toward em anyway. I dont think that it will help me really though.
Unmarked sarcasm is often hard to recognize in text. Do be careful.
The fact that you made that remark is still interesting, and jokes can say a lot about their tellers in this game. Why did you make that remark? Do you feel happy that your attackers died?
As for your lack of reads, is there at least anyone you suspect of being scum of any sort? If not, why not?
My suspision is on wolf He seem to be less than willing to play but his power seem a little more suspicious than he make it sound like. Someone that is stealing power is still out there so I think I might be looking for that guy.
oh and just to prove a point wolf
Toaster: do you think your power and affect the random target of my auto?
Post by: Scripten on August 22, 2014, 11:24:22 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 22, 2014, 11:29:35 pm
I led a lynch against a townie who thought I was scum. Now that he's a confirmed townie, I expected at least some people to immediately want to lynch me. I'm... pleasantly surprised?Cheeetar: Interesting. Do you believe that leading a mislynch against someone who thinks the mislynch leader is scum is scummy enough to warrant an immediate lynch effort against the mislynch leader? Enough to warrant a daykill?
Not personally, but I'm aware that other people might- Mafia is often a collision of many different types of people. I definitely don't think it warrants an immediate lynch, but I'll put it this way: Were I not me, I would be suspicious of me simply for the fact that a confirmed townie believed me to be scum.
Post by: TolyK on August 23, 2014, 01:58:11 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 23, 2014, 02:07:32 am
Post by: TolyK on August 23, 2014, 03:48:41 pm
Or is just the weekend. :P
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 23, 2014, 10:26:21 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 24, 2014, 01:57:09 am
Post by: Nerjin on August 24, 2014, 10:14:06 am
Obligatory Bah post. :P
I believe I have a hat to go eat... I could have sworn he was scum the way he was acting...
Nerjin: Nerjin: I would like to see your thoughts on the Flabort flip.
I think that town did the right thing. If someone acts as scummy as Flabort they deserve to be lynched. I hope his gambit was worth getting himself killed and wasting towns time with no real benefit.
Varee
Do you plan to actually do anything today? From what I recall you just seem to come in whenever you feel like to talk about how you’re going to use your abilities to do ‘something’ that you don’t understand. There’s no way. Scumhunt. Now.
Reads are rather hard. I am not comfortable with doing them. I can talk about my power loss though. It a oneshot kill that ignore protect. it was stolen last night.
So... You have a power that you've never used [despite claiming to use it nightyly] and you won't do reads. Nevermind what I said earlier. Varee you are harmful to town. Accidently at best, on purpose at worst. Regardless, you won't help town. So you hurt town.
On another note
So far the claims are as follows:
Quote from: Claims
4mask – Roleblocker with a protect? (Not quite sure)
Cheetar
Imp
Irony
Jack A T
Puppet – Role-stealer.
Nerjin – President role. Specific president not stated. Has a Pardon ability.
Scripten –
Silthuri –
Tiruin – Ex-Miller (Definitely Not Scum) [Confirmed by: TolyK]
Toaster – Survivor (Gets Autos from dead players) [Confirmed by: TolyK]
TolyK – Cop-thing (He's stated it's a bit differnet than a normal investigate as I recall)
Varee – Can build houses that he does not understand. Has done nothing yet apparently.
I might have missed something or misunderstoood someone.
PPE:
Nerjin, I know you've been around. Do you have any thoughts about the last night?
I think that Flabort messed town up with his 'gambit' and... Well I don't really know what to think about the night kills. That's really all I have to say about that.
Post by: Varee on August 24, 2014, 10:35:40 am
On the other note, Mr President. I am interested by you "Pardon" and wondering what exactly is it. It seem to be somesort of day power but are you willing to share that information?
Post by: TolyK on August 24, 2014, 11:39:54 am
Post by: Varee on August 24, 2014, 11:41:07 am
Post by: Varee on August 24, 2014, 12:03:43 pm
There 9 player left and atleast one is a SK(unless wuba really troll shakerag and he cant win)
So that mean 8 player and i will bet there atleast 3 mafia. If i got lynch and there a kill tonigt it will quickly become a situation where it town only have one person advantage of the mafia. With the number of player not voting this may likely screw the town over. So can you guys please reconsider the situation and stop band-wangoning on with the "you are not doing anything" claim.
I was staying away due to the amount of player on the first day before imp and nqt and jack push me to make a case. I start talking about my power and it was getting to a good discussion before flabort pull the oneshot thing and hammered. N1 give me almost nothing. Second day i tried to continue about the house but noone seem to get it. Everyone is so focus on flabort noone even really want to talk to other people..... Even after i tried to engage i only get three respond.....
There atleast three other people that is even less active than me and that dosent make them any less likely to be a scum so why dont those that is voting me try get some useful info out of wolf or scripten. Heck even tirurin can be in league with tolyk to make up the roose about miller claim.
Post by: Nerjin on August 24, 2014, 12:21:26 pm
I am interested by you "Pardon" and wondering what exactly is it. It seem to be somesort of day power but are you willing to share that information?
It is a day power. I'm pretty sure I've already explained it. It means that I am able to give a player a pardon from being lynched that day. It's not very useful except for saving myself. Well, it would be if I could use it to save myself. According to the "Pardon" power it can only target other players. So that's fun...
And we're not getting on you about lurking. At least i am not. I'm suspicious because you've given no indication of doing anything night game. You've played no day game to speak of [with just a few posts active lurking]. That's really it. You've not pressed a case yet that I can recall.
Post by: Scripten on August 24, 2014, 12:25:30 pm
And we're not getting on you about lurking. At least i am not. I'm suspicious because you've given no indication of doing anything night game. You've played no day game to speak of [with just a few posts active lurking]. That's really it. You've not pressed a case yet that I can recall.
This. So much this. Right now you're just coasting by. I just don't see any reason why you can't give actual reads or do anything, Varee. (Seriously, it is not that hard...) Your current play is hampering the town, and if you are a townie, that's not good.
Why did you want to get more information out of 4maskwolf or myself? What information do you want to get from either player? Don't just say "I want more information" and make other people play the game for you. Ask questions. Start probing. Just talking about your night powers (that may or may not even be doing what you say or anything) isn't helping us, so of course no one is going to take part in those discussions.
Post by: TolyK on August 24, 2014, 12:41:28 pm
Aren't there? Or am I really dumb?
Also, Varee, you can't just say "don't lynch me because it gets us into a bad position"... is not a good argument for us at all.
I'd say, by the way, that we probably don't have enough material to expose all scum members, which means that full claiming now is a horrible idea. I think all that's been claimed is more or less enough.
Post by: Nerjin on August 24, 2014, 12:44:21 pm
Post by: webadict on August 24, 2014, 12:59:29 pm
There are exactly 13 players. Plus Web, who is playing a game of "Let's watch the players sweat as they try to figure out my ingenius mechanations."Ingenious? Well, I don't know about going that far...
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 24, 2014, 02:52:27 pm
Furthermore, Pardon is a good, very good ability. Especially later on if there a bus passing trough.
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 24, 2014, 05:08:52 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on August 24, 2014, 05:16:32 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on August 24, 2014, 05:17:53 pm
I can replace in if you need.Wow.
Sheepy replacing for me again?
Supernatural 7 was a ridiculous chain of replacements, wasn't it.
4maskwolf -> TheWetSheep -> 4maskwolf -> Nerjin
Post by: webadict on August 24, 2014, 06:25:27 pm
I can replace in if you need.I believe Urist Imiknorris is first up for replace, but I will replace you if he does not respond or says otherwise.
Post by: Varee on August 24, 2014, 06:38:24 pm
Anyway it is very unlikely for me to find out what the hell my power actuallly do so i would like to pass on this to toaster. I know you will get my auto when i die right? So please find out what the hell my god damn auto really do......
Post by: Cheeetar on August 24, 2014, 06:38:57 pm
Post by: webadict on August 24, 2014, 08:36:49 pm
Could we get a votecount, Webadict? I'm curious as to whether Varee's vote will register.It's the weekend. So, later.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 24, 2014, 09:00:28 pm
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Why would Persus have this part of his role if all Shakerag had was autos? You're saying Shakerag's first auto was completely useless except as a buffer against Persus13?
Toaster, something about your role is off to me. Aside from answering the quoted question: Do you mind at all explaining more about what exactly your role is? Is there nothing to it except an auto that steals roles from people? Do you know why when you were role investigated, only 'lawless scavenger' showed?
How does NQT's auto work- if it's an auto, how exactly does he choose how the random abilities work?
Post by: Jack A T on August 25, 2014, 03:19:11 am
Persus13: What points in flabort's attack on Nerjin do you believe to be the good points?Nerjin: Respond to the above stuff addressed to you.
Nerjin: Why am I the one asking the above question to Persus13, instead of you? You had the chance to try to learn what Persus was thinking were the good points, and you instead just jabbed Persus for his relatively high opinion of flabort's attack. A reflexive defence instead of an informed defence, basically. What makes it so important to strongly indicate you disagree with Persus13 without even trying to figure out exactly what the disagreements are?
Alright. I've looked back a bit through the Flabort votes, and found material of interest. One particular player caught my attention: Imp.
What caught my attention was Imp's vote at the end of the day:
updated reads, on flabort and Varee:Part of what caught my eye was how the flabort content started. "I didn't and really still don't feel hostile intent from his day game" is not exactly a phrase I expect to see associated with "Moderate lean Scum," particularly in a case that was based around flabort's day game. Downplaying the scumminess of one's end-of-day target as one votes for them seems like an effort to minimize association with the end result.Spoiler: flabort (click to show/hide)Spoiler: varee (click to show/hide)
What really set off alarm bells, though, was one of her reasons for the flabort vote (bolding by me):
Yes, this is Imp attacking flabort for saying he wanted to be alive long enough to learn who tried to kill him, using the post-game reveal to say that he'll learn anyway whether alive or dead. There were a lot of valid reasons to attack flabort. This is not among them. It is a contrived reason, dependent on an unrealistically literal reading of flabort's statement; it is dependent on an assumption that flabort had no interest in dealing with the person(s) who wanted him dead and cared only about learning who they were. The assumption is, of course, not supported by flabort's actions, including his repeated assertions that one of his reasons for attacking Nerjin was a belief that Nerjin was the daykiller.Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.That doesn't sound or feel like a new player playing Town. Furthermore he's made a claim of being very, very familiar with hammers. So he also knows he doesn't 'need to be alive' to learn anything; we learn everything when the game is over no matter when we die.
I also noticed Imp's other suspect: the other easy target, Varee.
So I looked back through Imp's posts. Her primary case has been one on Varee, which she started pushing in the middle of Day 1. She largely abandoned it Day 2 until her flabort vote (her second vote so far), asking Varee only a few scattered questions about his alleged construction power until the vote.
Imp, for all her questioning of everyone, hasn't taken much action. Lots of poking and prodding, but very little attacking. About the biggest conflict she's gotten into with anyone but Varee or flabort that I noticed was a rather (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5567304#msg5567304) short clash (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5574597#msg5574597) with TolyK about memory issues, soon abandoned. She questions everyone, making herself look active and useful, but she doesn't visibly get anywhere. Mostly, she just sits back and suspects the easy targets.
Imp, overall, has done little to help the town. While keeping up the appearance of activity through questioning, her questioning has rarely seemed to help her get anywhere. She has focused on (and only ever voted for) the easiest targets in the game: Varee and flabort. Her last-minute participation in the Day 2 wagon on the latter was odd and poor, with a bizarre attack and a statement about not seeing malice in flabort's day game.
Imp has promised content will come on the 23rd. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5594493#msg5594493) Let's see what she eventually delivers.
Imp: Who, aside from Varee, do you suspect? Also, you asked this question to Cheeetar (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5558230#msg5558230) a while back about his knowledge of the acronym PFP. Is there any answer that would have been a sign of scumhood that you can think of?
Post by: Varee on August 25, 2014, 08:35:43 am
Scripten : so how exactly am i "hampering town" i did notdo much to benfit town but that is not hampering town...
Tolyk: You think the current info is enough? I dont think we have nearly enough information. There have been nothing but town dead(not counting shakerag). So what exactly is the information you are talkng about. Also you say you target nqt last night. Are you willing to share about that.
Me and myself. I understand that i dont do much right now but am still buffing people every night. That might not be very beneficial, in fact it wont change at all as my auto willbe redacted upon death. Let me just full claim right now seeing that people dont really care to change their mind right now. The auto is random and i can take a free action to target it. The power i have been using nightly is a protect. On flabort n 1 and tolk n2.
I am not very good at babbling so i feel like it would be easier if someone ask question and i answer them.
Fighting !?!
Post by: Scripten on August 25, 2014, 08:44:27 am
Scripten : so how exactly am i "hampering town" i did notdo much to benfit town but that is not hampering town...
Specifically, by not hunting, giving reads, or... well, doing anything during the day game unless prompted or handed information you're hampering the town by not playing as part of a team. I'm not convinced that you're scum, but that sort of confusion muddies the scumhunting waters, if you will. Therefore, you may not be a mafia member, but your play is not furthering the town's goals.
While a full claim isn't necessarily a bad thing, just because you have a protective role doesn't really mean you aren't scum. For all we know, you could just as easily be a sort of scum jailkeeper. Or entirely lying about your powers. We just don't know.
Post by: Varee on August 25, 2014, 09:06:52 am
I am not doing any less hunting than slithuri or wolf. It might be ture that I offer more than just your typical scum hunting question but I will say that they are my point of view. I dont see harm in offering alternate perspective, why should all the people focus on a single entity that is most like to be lynch anyway. Boarden your vision a bit wont hurt you. while it is less focus, in the end that might win you the game.Scripten : so how exactly am i "hampering town" i did notdo much to benfit town but that is not hampering town...
Specifically, by not hunting, giving reads, or... well, doing anything during the day game unless prompted or handed information you're hampering the town by not playing as part of a team. I'm not convinced that you're scum, but that sort of confusion muddies the scumhunting waters, if you will. Therefore, you may not be a mafia member, but your play is not furthering the town's goals.
While a full claim isn't necessarily a bad thing, just because you have a protective role doesn't really mean you aren't scum. For all we know, you could just as easily be a sort of scum jailkeeper. Or entirely lying about your powers. We just don't know.
It just not i dont want to give read, it is just too much for me to handle. I tried to not get involve and people keep making me get involve and now when i tried get involve people say I am distracting/annoying. you guys are sure hard to please.
Post by: TolyK on August 25, 2014, 09:16:12 am
Tolyk: You think the current info is enough? I dont think we have nearly enough information. There have been nothing but town dead(not counting shakerag). So what exactly is the information you are talkng about. Also you say you target nqt last night. Are you willing to share about that.No, it's not enough, but opening up everyone's cards will definitely not catch all the scum, so I think all the information we have on table should not be increased.
I already said that I targeted him with my inspect, and it said he was Town. Which turned out to be a waste, but whatever.
Post by: Varee on August 25, 2014, 10:43:01 am
This not knowing what my god damn power do is driving me crazy .....
Post by: Nerjin on August 25, 2014, 01:14:48 pm
Quote from: Jack A T link=topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178 date=1408954751
[quote author=Jack A T link=topic=140896.msg5587692#msg5587692 date=1408486058
[quote author=Jack A T link=topic=140896.msg5587692#msg5587692 date=1408486058
Nerjin: Why am I the one asking the above question to Persus13, instead of you? You had the chance to try to learn what Persus was thinking were the good points, and you instead just jabbed Persus for his relatively high opinion of flabort's attack. A reflexive defence instead of an informed defence, basically. What makes it so important to strongly indicate you disagree with Persus13 without even trying to figure out exactly what the disagreements are?
Because I didn't think about it honestly. I sorta figured he would further explain his points in later posts. After you pointed it out I felt stupid. Unfortunately I forgot to actually reply to your question so... Double Dipping in the stupid right about now for ol' Nerjin.
@Varee
It just not i dont want to give read, it is just too much for me to handle. I tried to not get involve and people keep making me get involve and now when i tried get involve people say I am distracting/annoying. you guys are sure hard to please.
You tried to stay in the background and do nothing. Then when we asked you to do something you state that you have been but you continue to do exactly the opposite of that. We're not hard to please, we just expect you to actually try.
This not knowing what my god damn power do is driving me crazy .....
You not scum-hunting is driving me crazy...
Post by: Varee on August 25, 2014, 06:17:37 pm
Webby can we get a vote count now?
Post by: Scripten on August 25, 2014, 06:21:25 pm
Nerjin: How, exactly, does your pardon work? Specifically, I'm curious as to how it activates and why you could not have used it on a quickhammer like what Flabort set up.
Post by: Nerjin on August 25, 2014, 06:31:37 pm
You know, looking back through older posts, Cheetar has been acting exceptionally strange Day 3. I'm not sure whether Flabort's flip really deserves quite so much paranoia. However, the thing that's stuck in my head is that he puts a FoS on Nerjin, who goes for Varee, who is obviously a pretty easy lynch right now, and as such the thread got diverted for a few pages. Something doesn't sit right with that.
Nerjin: How, exactly, does your pardon work? Specifically, I'm curious as to how it activates and why you could not have used it on a quickhammer like what Flabort set up.
Could you quote some of the posts that are tipping you off? Also, you seem to be building more of a case on me than Cheetar.
I can pardon someone from being lynched. I post in thread that I [b)Pardon X[/b) and then they don't get lynched. As for why I didn't use it on Flabort's thing? Well blame Web. I did use it, but apparently a few minutes after Hammer is too long to wait therefore making it pretty useless against hammers. In fact, I don't really see the point of it at all aside from preventing a person from being targeted for lynchings... I dunno. Maybe I'm just not creative enough. I'm still a little sore over that.
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2014, 10:13:39 pm
Post by: Scripten on August 25, 2014, 11:19:26 pm
Could you quote some of the posts that are tipping you off? Also, you seem to be building more of a case on me than Cheetar.
Sure, they're at the bottom. I'm more building a case on a dynamic between the two of you that I hadn't noticed due to my heavy suspicion of Varee.
I can pardon someone from being lynched. I post in thread that I [b)Pardon X[/b) and then they don't get lynched. As for why I didn't use it on Flabort's thing? Well blame Web. I did use it, but apparently a few minutes after Hammer is too long to wait therefore making it pretty useless against hammers. In fact, I don't really see the point of it at all aside from preventing a person from being targeted for lynchings... I dunno. Maybe I'm just not creative enough. I'm still a little sore over that.
This is true, after looking back. Thanks.
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 12:16:33 am
The power i have been using nightly is a protect. On flabort n 1 and tolk n2.Varee: Why did you select those two people to protect? (I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet.)
Well if your action suceed then someone is redirecting/randomising my action as it did not give nqt any power.....Quick question: what do you know about what your construction power gives its targets?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 12:25:09 am
I'd like to have more information from this day. We won't learn too much from a Varee lynch at the moment, given his desire to not participate so much in the day phase. I'd also like to respond to Scripten and there's something about TolyK and his 'sorry to whoever targeted me' thing that's irking me.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 12:27:41 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 12:30:46 am
Also got x_x on the weekend and was busy catching up with school stuffs...sorry for that.
Will post reads, and pertinent observations later on.
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 02:16:17 am
What, were you the one affected? :p
and there's something about TolyK and his 'sorry to whoever targeted me' thing that's irking me.
But seriously, it interests me as well - given I thought there were more shenanigans at play than I think now, it was likely that the side effect of my ability would cause a lot of mischief, but it doesn't seem to.
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 02:16:37 am
Post by: Varee on August 26, 2014, 06:07:16 am
The power i have been using nightly is a protect. On flabort n 1 and tolk n2.Varee: Why did you select those two people to protect? (I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet.)Well if your action suceed then someone is redirecting/randomising my action as it did not give nqt any power.....Quick question: what do you know about what your construction power gives its targets?
First night I was trying to save flabort, I never see him as a scum, well it might just be my view on being reckless most the time is not scummy. Also someone already tried to kill him once so I think it might happen again.I dont even think the power hti flabort as if I was redirected it suppose to redirect all my power right?
Tolyk is the other guy that is engaing with me without non stop "scumhunt or you are scum" mentality so I targeted him. Again i got no clue if it really did go though to him or not as I feel I got redirected.
I already claim everything I know about the power. It only say that it will give the target power according to role. oh and It is call Build!
and the other power is call "Can we fix [target]?" Yes we can!
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 06:39:51 am
First off, I never called you scum. But besides the fact...
I did receive a power last night, which more or less confirms this (unless someone else also targeted me to give me powers).
Saying ability names so far might be a bad idea.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 06:41:10 am
Spoiler: Scripten (click to show/hide)
Scripten, would you like to establish a more firm case? I can't see anything here that Irony Owl hasn't already said in a much more convincing fashion- it seems very lazy of you.
Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.
<.<
So, this was bugging me. We know that you were targeted by somebody (result of the anonymous tracker) and we also know that Varee tried to target you (possibly unsuccessful? Varee believes his protect was redirected- could you clarify that, Varee?) Varee also believes an action was taken from him. From the way you were talking Day 2 (I will only reveal how I know these things on Day 3) it looked like you were begging to be night actioned by scum.
Based on this: You have some sort of ability that destroys the powers of people that action you at night, and this is how Tiruin lost her miller?
Varee, what ability did your one-shot kill get replaced with (seeing as Tiruin got her miller replaced with filler, and that was apparently a result of actioning TolyK.)
People not to lynch:
- Toaster 98%
- Tiruin 95%
- Flabort 75% if he keeps promise, 35% if not
- Varee 60%
I currently won't explain why, but. Yeah.
Where did you get those numbers on Varee?
Post by: Varee on August 26, 2014, 06:46:52 am
[/size]Ninjaed XD[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]The thing is I ws trying to give NQT power but it is not there in his death list. so I think the build just fire off at random people i think.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.
<.<
So, this was bugging me. We know that you were targeted by somebody (result of the anonymous tracker) and we also know that Varee tried to target you (possibly unsuccessful? Varee believes his protect was redirected- could you clarify that, Varee?) Varee also believes an action was taken from him. From the way you were talking Day 2 (I will only reveal how I know these things on Day 3) it looked like you were begging to be night actioned by scum.
Based on this: You have some sort of ability that destroys the powers of people that action you at night, and this is how Tiruin lost her miller?
Varee, what ability did your one-shot kill get replaced with (seeing as Tiruin got her miller replaced with filler, and that was apparently a result of actioning TolyK.)People not to lynch:
- Toaster 98%
- Tiruin 95%
- Flabort 75% if he keeps promise, 35% if not
- Varee 60%
I currently won't explain why, but. Yeah.
Where did you get those numbers on Varee?
Also one of my power is gone. I was inform about that just before n2 end. My oneshot kill is gone. and I didnt get anything about getting new power.
Post by: webadict on August 26, 2014, 07:35:48 am
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, Scripten,
Imp - Jack A T,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris - Varee,
Varee - Cheeetar, Toaster, Nerjin,
Not Voting - Mysteriousbluepuppet, Tiruin, Imp, Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 14 hours from this post.)
Post by: Varee on August 26, 2014, 07:41:50 am
Also look like wuba just caught up with giving me power or something but now i am panicked, my action will only suceed 50% of the time .....
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2014, 07:46:01 am
Post by: Silthuri on August 26, 2014, 08:45:47 am
I also received Panicked.
Post by: Varee on August 26, 2014, 08:55:06 am
I guess Toaster is the one that benefit the most from this right? as it doesnt really change his power as they are all auto anyway? or will his power stealing happen half the time too?
I guess my auto will still fire off though. from the wording I feel it is unstopable.
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 09:04:57 am
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 10:15:51 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 26, 2014, 10:42:03 am
a) Extend.
b) I am also panicked.
c) I'll be reading through the thread and getting my thoughts in order this afternoon/evening. Additionally, I'd be interested in a summary of what's happened so far from anyone interested in giving one. (the more the merrier)
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 10:43:04 am
Um.
Who didn't get affected?
...
Bastard(s). I was q as well.
Varee is town, that much is certain to me. So is Tiruin.
I am town (well, at least in my reality :p) and Toaster is a survivor.
Whee, 4 more or less confirmed players (in my mind, 3 in yours) out of 13.
...
Good enough.
My ability doesn't make you give away abilities, by the way.
Theory: The person who mass-panic'd everyone is the SK. It would be too good of a scum ability.
Meanwhile, the scum can likely steal abilities as well as kill. Some others can steal as well, and it seems to be a central theme in this game.
Now... This thing is a self-destroying auto with a half-life of 1 day. Which stops 50% of actions.
Great.
Ninja'd: Oh hi there UI!
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 10:50:32 am
Damnit
What i'm wondering is ifwe got individual chances of getting out of panic mode, or it's a global thing.
I can imagine some poor sob ( probably me) staying panicked forever.
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 11:59:38 am
I'M PANICKING
Damnit
What i'm wondering is ifwe got individual chances of getting out of panic mode, or it's a global thing.
I can imagine some poor sob ( probably me) staying panicked forever.
What makes you think that the panic will run out? Just gut feeling or do you have some other information?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 26, 2014, 12:01:33 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 12:10:22 pm
I'M PANICKING
Damnit
What i'm wondering is ifwe got individual chances of getting out of panic mode, or it's a global thing.
I can imagine some poor sob ( probably me) staying panicked forever.
What makes you think that the panic will run out? Just gut feeling or do you have some other information?
The message i got from Wubbah? 50% chance to lose the ability? Did you not receive the message? Maybe you didN't Scripten
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 12:20:17 pm
- 50% chance for ability to disappear each day. (Pretty sure this was per person, by the way it was written)
I thought you had received a different version of the power, MBP. One that perhaps said something different and suggested a global chance.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 12:38:45 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 26, 2014, 12:39:02 pm
Anyways, I'm
Aside from that, I want to ask TolyK how you figure all of those players are town?
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 12:43:59 pm
No, i see the global because most people here do claim to have been panicked. Likely either SK ( in wich case he only would be unnafected, presumably) or MAYBE scum, and i expect that the scumbuddies would be spared of it.
Ah, I see. I took your post the wrong way. Apologies.
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 01:05:58 pm
Aside from that, I want to ask TolyK how you figure all of those players are town?Just trust me. :p
I got Toaster's survivor right (on the second try, since I forgot that nothing based on actions was 100% believable, i.e. inspection order isn't guaranteed), which would've been much less likely if I didn't actually have an inspect (and scum with an inspect is something I've never seen... >.>).
The others are definitely not lying, but their towniness isn't quite confirmed (not action-ly, but logically).
So... just trust me? Until I share all my info at some point of the game.
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 01:22:25 pm
Aside from that, I want to ask TolyK how you figure all of those players are town?Just trust me. :p
I got Toaster's survivor right (on the second try, since I forgot that nothing based on actions was 100% believable, i.e. inspection order isn't guaranteed), which would've been much less likely if I didn't actually have an inspect (and scum with an inspect is something I've never seen... >.>).
The others are definitely not lying, but their towniness isn't quite confirmed (not action-ly, but logically).
So... just trust me? Until I share all my info at some point of the game.
Mafia rolecops are essentially scum inspection roles.
Post by: Nerjin on August 26, 2014, 01:23:10 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 26, 2014, 02:10:35 pm
Oh. Right.
Well...
As I say, everything I say can be taken as truth in case I die.
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2014, 03:06:42 pm
Cheeetar:
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
Why would Persus have this part of his role if all Shakerag had was autos? You're saying Shakerag's first auto was completely useless except as a buffer against Persus13?
Persus couldn't have known that; it would be a bit of an anti-counter to the role. Plus, you're assuming that Shakerag couldn't gain a role. Varee has claimed to be able to boost roles in a way; perhaps he could give Shakerag an action. Given all the action modifying we've seen out there, some way of adding actions seems totally plausible.
By the same token, you're assuming that Persus was the only person to remove roles. It's also possible that, by definition, I would pick up that part of Shakerag's role from him. Imagine if Persus had shot off that auto of Shakerag's and I had picked up the "Sorry!" action instead.
Varee:
Toaster: do you think your power and affect the random target of my auto?
I don't know. By the wording, it's not explicitly limited to NQT's ability, but how could I affect an ability if I don't know it exists? Say Shakerag was still alive and he hadn't claimed; how could I possibly affect who gets randomly targeted to be randomized? Wuba refuses to answer questions about the roles of people who haven't flipped; if I ask him "Can I affect PlayerX's abilities" he'll just tell me he can't tell me.
The second night power should fail as nqt died but i recieve no such information.
Can you back this up? In typical action resolution, his death would have no effect, like I'm sure how TolyK got a result even on NQT.
I am not doing any less hunting than slithuri or wolf.
That doesn't make what you are doing right.
Cheeetar:
Toaster, something about your role is off to me. Aside from answering the quoted question: Do you mind at all explaining more about what exactly your role is? Is there nothing to it except an auto that steals roles from people? Do you know why when you were role investigated, only 'lawless scavenger' showed?
How does NQT's auto work- if it's an auto, how exactly does he choose how the random abilities work?
There is something more, yes; I never said it was a full claim. It's another auto, but not one that would prevent itself or anything from showing on a rolecop action. I just assumed that MBP's ability only revealed one part of the role. Keep in mind that N2 I also had the abilities from Shakerag and Flabort, and he didn't see those either... or at least neither he nor 4mask claimed seeing them.
I did use it, but apparently a few minutes after Hammer is too long to wait therefore making it pretty useless against hammers. In fact, I don't really see the point of it at all aside from preventing a person from being targeted for lynchings... I dunno.
By game definition, the day is over when the hammer is reached. Since it's no longer day, there's no more time to use a day action. I suppose if someone you are convinced is town is about to be lynched, you can prevent that from happening; key words "about to be lynched."
On the Mass Panic: I doubt a townie did this, because I imagine they'd claim it. Somehow, I doubt this is a Mafia ability either, since (assuming it hit everyone or at least everyone besides the person who used it; I admit this is a large assumption) it'd affect their team. I get the feeling this is a third party action, so the SK is a reasonable suspect.
For the record, Jack is pinging my gut as scum, but I can't put a finger on why. I think it's something like he's just acting like a townie instead of actually be one, but don't ask for concrete examples because I don't have one. It happened when I first read this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5597046#msg5597046), but... there's something wrong here; I just can't put my finger on it.
MBP and Imp: Who do you suspect and why?
TolyK:
I'm not likely lying, and not likely scum either, confirming townies...
That doesn't clear you.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:13:30 pm
Toaster, you have an auto that lets you decide how random things work. This 50/50 chance for nothing to work is random. Are you going to let us not be panicked tonight and use our abilities, or not?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:27:18 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 03:40:49 pm
@EveryoneSo... Post restriction or something? O_o
Sorry for breaking character. I'll try not to do so in the future.
On the Mass Panic: I doubt a townie did this, because I imagine they'd claim it. Somehow, I doubt this is a Mafia ability either, since (assuming it hit everyone or at least everyone besides the person who used it; I admit this is a large assumption) it'd affect their team. I get the feeling this is a third party action, so the SK is a reasonable suspect.PFP
I did it--it's my one-shot and hits everyone else.
...Which pokes on the imagine they'd claim it due to activity reasons. >_<
Why I did it?
...
...
It can only be used when the # of players = 13. [It just says one-shot, not one-shot day/night or other conditional affixes)
Why did I choose to use it instead of not using it (and therefore not doing obvious collateral damage?)
> Analysis of threat.
There has been someone who was acting as a saboteur early in game (someone gave me the Filler ABility, now checking on Persus' bio), as well as hindrance of the kills. I...honestly didn't ask as to what limitations my one-shot of Panicked goes (it just says actions, no specifics as to what actions however, due to not thinking about it in that sense [and busyness]). Checking up on my skimmed notes, most of those abilities known are not that direct in leading to the extreme of the wincon (The Win.), meaning its a comparing of values--hindering a kill or hindering an everythingelse that doesn't make a player stop anything (talking, playing...basically living).
Note, I could've claimed it earlier but part of the idea was to check on reactions to it.
...Primarily, I wanted to add the explanation to my reads to get caught back(?) with the game.
So since my last post... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572518#msg5572518) here're some reeds.
On Persus13, I was reading him as town at that time, but a hilarious thought--
Spoiler: in which I ramble...skip to the reads for pertinency (click to show/hide)
4maskwolf -- I'm a bit...leery? Cautious on this one. Notice of comparison on role value/power (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572700#msg5572700) here, its only a trivial note in hindsight, but curious all the same.
Cheeetar -- Erm.
Basically my perception of him is an inquisitive one. Reactionary, though not deep in the sense of finding reactions through being reactionary (see: D1; interactions with me in regard to Miller-ness. I'm focused more on the idea of 'quicklynch to prove,' though honestly it is a rather acceptable concept.) But how the...following (proceedings?) went kept the scale imbalanced.
So unsure. Very unsure.
Spoiler: Hapah -> TolyK (click to show/hide)
IronyOwl -- Goes with Imp. Leaning Town. Activity would help :3 Though I seriously appreciate the kind tone towards me when I'm..erm. Troubled. The Troubled part ties with Cheeetar.
Jack A T -- He's also in with Imp. Pointy posts. Solid nature. 'Hard' [as in like rock, not difficulty-hard] way of answering and asking.
Jiokuy -> Mysteriousbluepuppet -- ...This is the first time I haven't felt one way or another regarding him or his posts. Grey zone/Unsure.
Scripten --Wary, though unsure. This is more based on how I saw him judge Flabort and his wording towards considering his judgement; definitive use of 'scum' (though would make sense if the target is under direct suspect) when poking at Flabort. Rolling over to D2 onwards? Requires more for a better read.
Spoiler: Silthuri (click to show/hide)
Tiruin -- This is Tiruin. O__O
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2014, 03:41:53 pm
I got panicked too.
Toaster, you have an auto that lets you decide how random things work. This 50/50 chance for nothing to work is random. Are you going to let us not be panicked tonight and use our abilities, or not?
You think I could entirely negate the panic? Interesting concept. I guess I could try? Seems awfully strong for it to work that way.
That said, I don't think removing it is a good idea; this way, I could effectively keep a leash on people and start denying them actions if they're probable scum.
...or could I just entirely lock down the night phase and only let the day game happen. HMM.
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 03:44:28 pm
...or could I just entirely lock down the night phase and only let the day game happen. HMM.That is the best case scenario you could do. :D
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:48:37 pm
...or could I just entirely lock down the night phase and only let the day game happen. HMM.That is the best case scenario you could do. :D
Yes please. Imagine a mafia game with only the Day Phase. This is my dream, and it too can be yours, Toaster, if only you wish it.
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 03:50:53 pm
But Toaster only has Autos.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:51:49 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 26, 2014, 03:52:16 pm
Quote from: Cheeetar
Persus13, it was me or Flabort and I had a very small window of time in which to decide. I'm incredibly glad he ended up not being town.
Also: huzzah for no night deaths! We're doing something right.Both of these sound like you trying to ingratiate yourself to the town.
4mask, your input for the night is a... Vote then an immediate unvote? :(
What is your wincon?All anti-town factions dead.
I see desperation, but not suspicion (is it possible to suspect yourself?) It was a choice between me (a confirmed townie to myself) and Shakerag dying. In such a time pressured moment, I didn't at all feel comfortable saying 'yes okay let's let any one person decide who should die here.'
Quick hammering Shakerag wasn't necessary for me to win, but it sure seems like it helped!
The sk ally is a dude who's trying to help the sk, so he's anti-town. By getting rid of him we're one step closer to winning.Unless I'm really missing something, you're contradicting yourself here.
I claim no responsibility for preventing deaths this night, nor do I claim to have no responsibility :D
And uh, congratulations on losing the miller?
Now for Read 2: Electric Boogaloo.
PPE: I love Toasters night-game lockdown idea. Rob the mafia and SK of their primary weapons forevermore. Just make sure that the 50/50 chance of the ability going away swings correctly as well.
Tiruin: One of Toaster's autos rigs probability-based events.
Did your panic ability affect you as well?
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 03:54:51 pm
Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
Tiruin: One of Toaster's autos rigs probability-based events.I understand myself to not fear myself.
Did your panic ability affect you as well?
...
Meaning Nup. Doesn't affect me.
Also then what did he mean by locking the night? Did I miss that?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:56:41 pm
If all anti-town factions are dead, the sk-ally being dead is necessary for me to win. Quick hammering him wasn't the only way to accomplish this, though. He coulda been lynched at a later date, or after a lengthy mediated discussion by town, scum, and third parties in which no single person decided to lynch either of the two people who could've been quicklynched (Irony Owl's solution.)
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 03:57:07 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 26, 2014, 04:02:01 pm
Also then what did he mean by locking the night? Did I miss that?Toaster has claimed an auto (specifically, the one he stole from NQT's corpse) that lets him decide the outcome of chance-based events. Theoretically, he could use this power to prevent anyone except you (because you're not panicked) from acting, as well as preventing the panic effect from wearing off.
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 04:04:39 pm
Tiruin: You received powers N1 and N2, yes?
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 04:07:12 pm
Ah, good. Now that Tiruin's here, it's time to start revealing some stuff.. . .No.
Tiruin: You received powers N1 and N2, yes?
Err, wait, unless you include the Filler Ability, yeah.
N2?
*checks*
Nup.
However stuff did happen in regard to what I did.
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 04:12:37 pm
Tiruin: Do you have any power, or did you have any power during N2, that would have interfered with powers aimed at you?
I can talk about my power loss though. It a oneshot kill that ignore protect. it was stolen last night.Varee: You omitted something here. Why did you choose to lose the oneshot kill?
TolyK: Did you choose to lose a power called "Filler Ability" N1? If not, what power did you choose to lose?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 04:16:32 pm
Got a few questions for you Toaster
Does your ''decide luck'' thing allow you to both increase the chance to 100% and Keep it going at the same time ?If yes that would be very, strong. Also, does it affect only you ? Could use it to look for kill abilities. I doubt it, but never hurt to ask.
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 04:50:04 pm
Not the answer I was expecting.None at all.
Tiruin: Do you have any power, or did you have any power during N2, that would have interfered with powers aimed at you?
I don't have anything to interfere with anything aimed at me :P
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.Oooo, interesting! :O
Explain.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 26, 2014, 05:39:24 pm
Toaster: Would you ask Webadict for the necessary clarification on how NQT's auto works?
Tiruin: I would see your activation of that power as scummy (causing mass confusion and reducing a lot of things to chance generally helps out the informed minority rather than town) were it not for Toaster's auto. Did you at all consider this when you activated it? Or: did you even know it would do what it did?
TolyK: Were you claiming to be certain that Tiruin had actioned you, or was that conjecture based on her loss of her miller auto?
Post by: Varee on August 26, 2014, 06:04:14 pm
Jack: so it is you who take my power? Anyway back to the point, as i have answer the rvs about one shot, it is really hard for me to decide to use it so i just let it go. What are you planning to do with that power?
Also i believe that panic is about as benificial to towns as it is to mafia. It make the chance that they might be no kill tonight but it also hamper the power on investigative role. So what do you guys think? Does panic help town of mafia?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 26, 2014, 06:25:21 pm
The way I see it, there are a few ways this could go:
a) Tiruin is town. Everyone except her is affected.
b) Tiruin is scum. Everyone except her is affected.
c) Tiruin is scum. Everyone except scum is affected.
d) Tiruin is the SK. Everyone except her is affected.
If Toaster's ability works like I hope it does, then scenario C is the only case where the scum can act, and even then the cat'll be out of the bag after that night and Toaster can clear it the next night, unless the scum pretend it's B and have a nasty surprise planned.
However, keep in mind that Web's games, while crazy with powers, generally don't have game breakers, as he puts in a lot of effort into making sure there's no way to completely crush the setup (and thus ruin the fun of the whole game). Someone opposed to Tiruin probably has abilities that can't fail or something. Or maybe they have an ability that prevents them from gaining abilities, which would mean they aren't panicked.
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 07:14:31 pm
Jack: so it is you who take my power? Anyway back to the point, as i have answer the rvs about one shot, it is really hard for me to decide to use it so i just let it go. What are you planning to do with that power?Varee: I do not have your power, but I am the one who forced you to give it away. Tiruin is supposed to have your power, but she claims that she doesn't have it. This is a problem.
Basically, I have a power that forces one player to hand a power of their choice over to another player. The first doesn't know where the power's going, and the second doesn't know where the power came from.
On panicklocking: Something's clearly wrong here. We have what appears to be a game-breaking set of powers (most notably Tiruin's mass panic and NQT/Toaster's probability control). I've figured out how these powers, if no counter exists, could be used with my own power transfer power and a single cop to slowly catch every inspection-vulnerable scum:
Spoiler: Slow, painful, boring, effective game-breaking! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jack A T on August 26, 2014, 07:18:59 pm
Varee and Tiruin's claims regarding my power transfer are evidence of this, I think. Either someone's lying, or something screwed up the transfer.
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2014, 09:01:23 pm
Does your ''decide luck'' thing allow you to both increase the chance to 100% and Keep it going at the same time ?If yes that would be very, strong. Also, does it affect only you ? Could use it to look for kill abilities. I doubt it, but never hurt to ask.
I have clarifications out to WUBA WUBA WUBA right now.
Varee: Does it specifically say that the target of your house gains a RANDOM ability? Specifically includes that exact word?
UI is totally correct that Web has counters to everything planned out. I'm sure some anti-town has the ability to ignore the panic (or that anti-town sourced it; I'm almost positive Tiruin isn't Mafia, but SK isn't totally ruled out. I doubt it though) or bypass it in some other way. Anyway, we'll see what Web says about clarification.
Post by: Silthuri on August 26, 2014, 09:18:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I may have missed some things because my main focus, due to lack of time, was Varee due to suspicions I had earlier.
Post by: Tiruin on August 26, 2014, 09:24:23 pm
UI is totally correct that Web has counters to everything planned out. I'm sure some anti-town has the ability to ignore the panic (or that anti-town sourced it; I'm almost positive Tiruin isn't Mafia, but SK isn't totally ruled out. I doubt it though) or bypass it in some other way. Anyway, we'll see what Web says about clarification.Note: If I'm the SK--that means (and in truth giving an SK a Miller ability is an -_-) I'm lacking an Auto.
General Query: I've browsed the many reads on me and they pertain solely to the D1 miller fiasco, and Persus13.
Then looking at now, is the whole basis of judgement (alignment) on me based purely on...the degree of perceived 'power' of my...um, power?
Because it can pretty much ONLY work if there's 13 people. As in, if the # of people are above or below 13, I can't activate it.
EBWOP: That counter may be Tiruin being scum and scum not being effected. It may instead be someone with a power that screws up power gains/losses, or someone with immunity to the issues panic causes. Whatever it is, there is a counter out there.Counter...erh? I literally have /nothing/ to block whatever you can throw at me (in that manner), so this is either evidence that someone is connected to me that I've no idea of--or someone has action'd me in some manner that affects...other actions coming in towards me?
Varee and Tiruin's claims regarding my power transfer are evidence of this, I think. Either someone's lying, or something screwed up the transfer.
I cast wonder at Varee's house. I think I was housed, perhaps? I've no message of anything otherwise though, and am speculating.
General query: Hypothetical question this. If I was scum, why would I claim that I did the Panick-all and detail it down to the perceived period?
I poke That Blue Puppet. What governs your suspicion towards me?
Post by: Scripten on August 26, 2014, 10:06:24 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 26, 2014, 10:25:57 pm
He can make all action fail
So it wouldn't affect you in the slightest.
Post by: webadict on August 26, 2014, 10:39:57 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, Scripten,
Imp - Jack A T,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
Toaster -
TolyK - Tiruin,
Urist Imiknorris -
Varee - Cheeetar, Toaster, Nerjin, Silthuri,
Not Voting - Imp, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Varee,
Day Extended!
7 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 46 hours from this post.)
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 11:11:25 pm
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2014, 11:35:16 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 11:53:49 pm
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 12:05:57 am
I did ask; I can't block action types. For example, I can't block all kills while allowing all inspects to go through.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 12:06:28 am
Good? Bad?
Quick question toaster. What would stop you from lockdowning everyone but the scum and win like a dirty Survivor ?
He probably doesn't know who the scum are, but- if he does, it's a worry.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 12:13:01 am
Then X guy would kill every non scum until while they just vote off the stragglers. Considering 13 people game, 3 scum + you, that would in 2-3 night unless some scum start dieing. 2-3 night.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 12:19:22 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 12:24:11 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 12:30:34 am
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 12:41:09 am
Your unstoppable need to build things causes a random player (including you) is given a random ability that coincides with their role each Night. You may choose to target (excluding you) this as a free action.
There fore technically you can give your self what ever power except if I target someone .......
Slithuri: I will adress your question later tonight.
Jack: I have a feeling thatyour plan might not work. Certain power might not be blockable. Also consider that ability that toaster could technically give himseld any power relate to his role if my target action fail, this might need to some unweildy situation.
Ont the random control power: OMG it toally OP.pls nerf.....
Post by: TolyK on August 27, 2014, 05:08:19 am
...Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
I was sure you targeted me to take away a power of mine. Because you got my Filler Ability...
TolyK: Were you claiming to be certain that Tiruin had actioned you, or was that conjecture based on her loss of her miller auto?I was saying that since a confirmed town confirmed her loss of the Miller, and her Filler Ability was taken from me.
Not the answer I was expecting.I did lose "Filler Ability".
TolyK: Did you choose to lose a power called "Filler Ability" N1? If not, what power did you choose to lose?
So it was you who targeted me N1. And Tiruin. Gotcha.
So,
Toaster is a survivor that can control luck.
Tiruin is not scum, but possibly the SK (yes, this is totally possible).
I can say that Varee is almost certainly town.
I was the one that got Varee's one-shot kill.
I'll see what else I can think of...
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 05:15:35 am
Post by: TolyK on August 27, 2014, 05:49:38 am
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 07:51:22 am
Varee: Given the responses from Web, I'm not sure that I could dictate the result of that ability, especially if it's modified based on the role on the person. Plus, I doubt that Web would let me give myself unlynchable and kill immune.
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 08:37:40 am
Silthuri:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PPe this large post are very hard to make .... It keep adding random tags everywhere ..... I dont understand why T_T
Post by: Scripten on August 27, 2014, 08:40:52 am
I'm not sure if a Varee lynch is the best shot we have right now. He's been very unengaged in scum hunting, but he's also been unfailingly honest about things, and Toaster could potentially screw us over really badly with his auto. Varee has played mafia here before- would anybody who's played with Varee before clarify if this is how he generally acts?
In the last game I played with him, the CYOMask game, he acted very similarly. He was mostly engaged with his own powers, to the point where he gimped me for almost the entire game. (I was town, and expected that only a scum players would attack a town player at random.) It seems to me that he's not a particularly good asset for town and is fairly obsessed with having people talk about his powers. That said, he was a resurrecting townie, not scum, and cost us several days of deliberation.
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 08:58:23 am
I think I might get over it sometime, hopefully soonish.The effect I am getting is more of a pressure than comfort though.
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 09:25:07 am
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 09:38:11 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 01:12:49 pm
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.Query--I saw Cheeetar(?) say you got this from NQT but...NQT has no Autos?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 01:18:31 pm
Where did that even come from?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town....
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
So you vote me on shortsightedness and blame of 'omg so op power'?
Wow. That's...wow. >_>
It's something I could really defend. Just like me trying to explain the mod's idea with me.
*looks at orange part*
Nice note, puppet. That's a strange wording which is very different from your reason. Could you clarify more? Because its not making ANY sense. You say its something something comparison. I don't get it.
MBP for now.
So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
The same sense you got in D1? MMmmm?
...Uh huh....Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
I was sure you targeted me to take away a power of mine. Because you got my Filler Ability...
So I got an ability that IS JUST THE SAME AS PANICKED IN DETAIL AND EFFECT, for some reason?
Because its very much like YOU TARGETED ME given the usage of that power there, now.
So tell me TolyK, how in the world would you have a power of...yours..when said power is a detriment if you have it?
>_>
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 01:24:34 pm
No, Persus claimed to have destroyed her Miller ability.And he did (or for you jolly skeptics out there, he destroyed my AUTO).
This was the same time (...err, I got notice in the same PM as me receiving Filler Ability anyway)
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 02:36:04 pm
I'm voting you on having a power that's not town. Kinda like if i cop someone wiht a nightkill i fuckign accuse him. Your panic! is not a town power, i can feel it. I'd verify it too, but then again i won't be able to. Well played, scum.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 02:43:20 pm
Brilliant interpretation, for a vote meant to get you talking. "You know very well what I meant"...very good account of communication sir, when the question is directly questioning in an interrogative structure.
You know very well that that comes off as evasion, right? Because that's how I interpret your brevity and lack of discourse. Sudden shift to 'stressed scum' huh? You haven't given me anything to be stressed about at all given your...how shall I say, weak efforts at anything.
Quote
I'm voting you on having a power that's not town. Kinda like if i cop someone wiht a nightkill i fuckign accuse him. Your panic! is not a town power, i can feel it. I'd verify it too, but then again i won't be able to. Well played, scum....Interesting method of jumping to conclusions. It becomes an isolation notion of 'not' instead of 'seems like' pertaining to the power, huh.
My panic isn't a "town" power...because?
> I know very well what you meant! :D
Yeah...this is what I mean by weak efforts. Your ending note of 'Well played, scum.' doesn't even match in semantics. Trying to provoke a reaction through bad use of sentence structure as well as providing provocational arguments which only have effect in reactionism and pure emotional response...isn't effective, for posterity.
Now let me ask you again. Detail your bloody case.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 02:53:13 pm
The only catch with lynching me is if the scum have some way to bypass the lock (even if it's one shot), then they'll take the chance to off me, and you'll lose the benefits.
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 02:55:10 pm
I'm not sure if a Varee lynch is the best shot we have right now. He's been very unengaged in scum hunting, but he's also been unfailingly honest about things, and Toaster could potentially screw us over really badly with his auto. Varee has played mafia here before- would anybody who's played with Varee before clarify if this is how he generally acts?
In the last game I played with him, the CYOMask game, he acted very similarly. He was mostly engaged with his own powers, to the point where he gimped me for almost the entire game. (I was town, and expected that only a scum players would attack a town player at random.) It seems to me that he's not a particularly good asset for town and is fairly obsessed with having people talk about his powers. That said, he was a resurrecting townie, not scum, and cost us several days of deliberation.
Alright. That's a shame.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 02:56:07 pm
Complaining i'm evasive when you can't read 3 lines IS kneejerk. I'll change that for OMGUS, because that's clearly what it is. Instead of trying to spin purple prose, how about you explain how your power could be town alignment ? Again, by meta, it's game breaking for Town ( especially since another townie had the combo key) while it's effective but counterable if scum. WHy would Wubbah break his own game just like that?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 02:57:11 pm
*Tiruin flails around.The only catch with lynching me is if the scum have some way to bypass the lock (even if it's one shot), then they'll take the chance to off me, and you'll lose the benefits.
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.
Could anyone inform me about:
I have no idea what anyone is saying about whatever lockdown is here because if I get what Toaster's claim said (which I lost the link but he did fullclaim? earlier with his role and the usual 'I am [rolename]'...that post) and this thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607685#msg5607685)...Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.Query--I saw Cheeetar(?) say you got this from NQT but...NQT has no Autos?
I'm totally lost.
NQT doesn't even have an AUTO >_>
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:00:53 pm
I explained it in my last post already. Whatever your alignment may be, your power as you described is a boon to Mafia before being one to Town. Haven't seen wubbah give townies powers detrimental to themselves and other towns, especially should they be given a time limit to use them,@Orange: You described it. Ok!
Complaining i'm evasive when you can't read 3 lines IS kneejerk. I'll change that for OMGUS, because that's clearly what it is. Instead of trying to spin purple prose, how about you explain how your power could be town alignment ? Again, by meta, it's game breaking for Town ( especially since another townie had the combo key) while it's effective but counterable if scum. WHy would Wubbah break his own game just like that?
HOW.
>_>
You're just stating a statement without giving any backing to it. Can you get my curiosity towards it yet or do I have to define it more that you're being confusing without any relevant evidence or idea or...anything to grasp what you're thinking.
Quote
Haven't seen wubbah give townies powers detrimental to themselves and other towns, especially should they be given a time limit to use them,What?
Quote
Complaining i'm evasive when you can't read 3 lines IS kneejerkWhat. Three. Lines.
Quote
I'll change that for OMGUS, because that's clearly what it is....Yeah. Like everything I said in connected to you being voted equals an OMGUS. It's not like I voted you out of suspicion...no. That wasn't obvious in my tone. My toooone~
Yeah.
Quote
Instead of trying to spin purple prose, how about you explain how your power could be town alignment ?...So you can't even read someone trying to be detailed. Ok.
How the heck can I even answer that question? What makes a power be town alignment, for one? -_-
You're judging me by a set of values that is too vague as a foundation. Clarify your foundation of judgement.
Quote
Again, by meta, it's game breaking for Town ( especially since another townie had the combo key) while it's effective but counterable if scum. WHy would Wubbah break his own game just like that?Again:
HOW.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:04:03 pm
So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
The same sense you got in D1? MMmmm?
I got the sense that TolyK was claiming responsibility for you not being miller, or at least having investigated you. You were his '95% not scum' on Day 2 when he didn't want to explain how he knew things.
That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
This looked to me like he was claiming responsibility for your de-millering.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:06:20 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:08:39 pm
Tiruin: Urist Imiknoriss (previously 4maskwolf) got the nightly results for two players. One was a rolecop investigation (TolyK initiated on Toaster) that revealed somebody had been stealing the role abilities of dead players- this is what the [REDACTED] in people's roles after they die has been. NQT's redacted was apparently an auto that let him control luck (or so claims Toaster, who has been stealing the role abiliites.)@orange: Oh huh. Nice to know :o Thanks for that.So we don't know how Tiruin lost her miller? Things are starting to make a lot less sense in my head.What's the sense you got here, buddy?
The same sense you got in D1? MMmmm?
I got the sense that TolyK was claiming responsibility for you not being miller, or at least having investigated you. You were his '95% not scum' on Day 2 when he didn't want to explain how he knew things.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.
This looked to me like he was claiming responsibility for your de-millering.
Next: ...Err, if TolyK is claiming responsibility, then Persus...what?
Did you notice me saying, and going along with, what Persus said before he claimed it himself earlier in the game? I ask because you...think TolyK did that, for some reason, instead of Persus.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:09:25 pm
That is to say: Toaster steals the role ability, and then nobody knows what it is because it doesn't show up when the victim flips- it's removed completely.It steals on death or...at the time of death but before roleflip?
Anyway, where is the post in question where he said that he can do this directly? I think I missed it. ._.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:11:43 pm
Anyway- yes. I know Persus did it, with nerf, but for a while there I got kind of confused because it really looked like TolyK was using your de-millering as some way to establish both your and his innocence.
TolyK: Why, on Day 2, did you say that Tiruin was 95% likely to be town?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 03:18:36 pm
Quote
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.
Now do answer the queston rather than flounder about.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:23:51 pm
A lynch of Toaster may be the best choice right now.
A) He can revive anyway, and if he's lying about having a revive he's not town (he claimed survivor.)
B) If he truly can lock everyone down in the night phase, he can stop people night killing him. If not, we can lynch him the next day.
C) In the event that we don't lynch him and scum kill in the night, we would have to dedicate another two day phases to lynching him during which the scum will probably still be able to kill people seeing as Toaster couldn't lock them down.
This is all moot in the case of a town vigilante that can bypass lockdown, but I don't think we should take this chance- we don't lose much by making Toaster have to regenerate his revive, but there is a lot at stake if a third party holds this much power.
Spoiler: Incidentally funny (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 03:28:55 pm
But yeah, that is funny. I probably had forgotten what my alignment was when I said that.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:29:31 pm
Dude, you're just repeating yourself. I SAW THAT.
Now I'd like you to explain how in the bloody game is it 'WAAAAY' too strong for a townie.
Did you read that I said it was a one-shot and could ONLY be used if the # of players = 13?
I bet you did judging by how EXTREME you are in poke poke poking me and using such aggressive terms to describe what I'm doing--when I'm honestly just confused about what you're saying and ask you in all honesty to explain better.
Yes, that is floundering! Wow! <_<
Now again, can you explain how any of that makes sense?
I don't even have whatever you call this Complete Lockdown. It's like you're attributing a hell lot more than what even exists. Assuming. All that. Game Balance and other details which don't make sense until you talk about it more. In detail.
Tha'ts what I'm asking. DETAIL. >_>
Now how the heck do I answer a question about what the mod gave me? Again, I repeat like I said in D1, you're asking me to...what. Defend the mod's choice of role-making? Or probably explain 'oh hey guiz my power is town' :D
When I don't even get what makes a power 'town' or whatever. I mean, I even transcended that kind of idea back in my reads (compare my analogy to TOlyK//Nerjin as a note) because it is senseless to judge purely based on powers.
PPE: Err...could I still get note on TOaster's 'Can Steal Autos' here? I can't find where that's directly mentioned.
fakeedit: The above is to Puppet :O
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:31:13 pm
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
If we lose all our town abilities (except TolyK's investigate, assuming we're trusting him on that count) then we'd damn well better get a safe night out of it.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 03:39:00 pm
If you'd rather, i can explain it in French. Because english certainly isn't working right now.
For everyone else, can i have a confirmation that the sentence i'm not in a weird bizarro world where my sentences are impossible to decipher?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:44:13 pm
And I feel like you're being evasive about your weak case--saying that I've to try and understand what you mean.
Do you mean me to explain my power in terms of how it is town? That's exactly what you said.
Now I'll also bring another point other than the obvious ones I'm poking at.
Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities.
You're asking me to do something that doesn't lead to objective results, to rephrase, and the suspicious point is you make it your primary detail in whatever idea you have of me.
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 03:53:58 pm
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
If we lose all our town abilities (except TolyK's investigate, assuming we're trusting him on that count) then we'd damn well better get a safe night out of it.
Sure, but it's not my fault if the scum has some sort of lockdown bypass; (double) lynching me then won't do you any good.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 03:55:32 pm
WHat is also lacking is your answers. Stop deflecting.
Quote
Do you mean me to explain my power in terms of how it is town?That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 03:57:00 pm
I take issue with your points B and C in that a kill is immediately my fault.
If we lose all our town abilities (except TolyK's investigate, assuming we're trusting him on that count) then we'd damn well better get a safe night out of it.
Sure, but it's not my fault if the scum has some sort of lockdown bypass; (double) lynching me then won't do you any good.
Sure, and it's not our responsiblity to keep you alive. I'm sorry if this seems mean, Toaster: Town doesn't mean nice. If we want to win this way, we need to trust you, and that means making sure you don't have revives to fall back on if you support the scum.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 03:57:35 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 03:58:56 pm
My case isn't weak, it's your comprehension that is sorely lacking. I'm associating that a Panic power that is either blatantly broken if town but fair when scum is most likely owned by a scum.::)
Nice excuse. Now could you explain how it is so?
Quote
WHat is also lacking is your answers. Stop deflecting.Like you bother to quote and respond to them given your brevity. Actually, did you even read them? Because deflecting is the last thing you'll end up thinking if you bothered to.
Quote
That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.Oh good! Now explain what makes a 'town' power so we can meet on common ground, for one.
Because it is annoying how a case is made when you ask someone to clarify that their power is 'town'. It's like you're asking me to define a stereotype or a label, as an idea.
What is a 'Town' power? How is asking you that even counted as 'deflecting'?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:00:47 pm
There's a reason Policy lynching survivors is a thing. The farther this game go the bigger a threat you are. Doubly since you scavenge other's ability. I'm personally not for lynching you yet, but it may come to it in a few days, depending on lynch and night results.There's a reason there are reasons behind whatever 'policy' procedure exists.
The survivor has a choice to side on an alignment-team, unlike those who are Town/Mafia, who are stuck with their teams whether they like it or not. I'm beginning to understand how you comprehend things now, however.
The orange part is amusing though. COuld you explain that, too? Also as far as I read, he can only scavenge the Auto's of the dead.
Post by: Jack A T on August 27, 2014, 04:03:12 pm
MBP: You seem to be misunderstanding the situation quite a bit. Tiruin never claimed to have a complete lockdown power, and panic isn't in itself a complete lockdown effect. What Tiruin claims to have used is a power that, when combined with NQT/Toaster's probability control power, can result in what is (unless countered, and there's almost definitely a counter) basically a complete lockdown.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:05:59 pm
You're deflecting, Puppet. You're not answering any of my questions back there and just work in brevity to continue on your line.
It's like you're not concerned with communication here.
PPE:
...Exactly.
Err, wait what?
Quote
NQT/Toaster's probability control power, can result in what is (unless countered, and there's almost definitely a counter) basically a complete lockdown.Ah.
...Yes? All I've heard TOaster can do is somethingsomething probability-power manipulation.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:07:12 pm
So I'm a bit confused how an Auto can affect everyone else.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
Again, i'm utterly baffled how you can't do anything but say HOW. HOW. HOW. YOu can write and hopefully read, you aren't braindead to the point you can't understand that shit, right ? RIGHT?
As for
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The farther this game go the bigger a threat you are. Doubly since you scavenge other's ability.
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.
2 more post
Are you this fucking incapable of comprehension!?!
Jesus fuckign christ, you are maddening
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:17:33 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:21:36 pm
How about instead of playing the poor wittle wictim you start answering the damn fucking questions.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:22:26 pm
My vote is sticking.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:23:23 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 27, 2014, 04:25:48 pm
I'm voting you on having a power that's not town. Kinda like if i cop someone wiht a nightkill i fuckign accuse him. Your panic! is not a town power, i can feel it. I'd verify it too, but then again i won't be able to. Well played, scum.
You're voting her for having a power you think isn't town. Also, you will treat Tiruin with respect and build a case that actually has merit beyond "I say you are scum because I am the mod."
You are not the mod. You don't know her alignment. YOu aren't trying. Get to work or shut the hell up.
There, have fun Tiruin. Seriously, rather than writing wall of HOW WHAT and other shit, try reading. It was 2 pages back, jesusQuoteTiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.
Now do answer the queston rather than flounder about.
The only possible response to this she could have is: "Wuba thought it would be."
There's not another possible response! Stop acting like you saying "I don't think that's town" means anything.
My case isn't weak, it's your comprehension that is sorely lacking. I'm associating that a Panic power that is either blatantly broken if town but fair when scum is most likely owned by a scum.
WHat is also lacking is your answers. Stop deflecting.QuoteDo you mean me to explain my power in terms of how it is town?That's part of what I want to know. Now if you'd answer instead of throwing empty posts whit maybe we could go forward.
See the above. Also, your case is incredbily weak. Like... a Level 1, straight 3 ability wizard weak.
Okay... Blue? Shut up. You do not insult Tiruin like that. I'm not going to let you insult a friend like that. Your case is shit! Build a case, or shut the hell up.
Seriously.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:26:40 pm
I really feel like I'm arguing with an immature kid here.
Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean that the person you're talking to is scum. :v
I understand however, how you're approaching this. I cannot answer it, however, because that'd be trying to interpret the Mod.
Have you made any progress as to communicate on that matter?
Nah, you're just poking the same stick. Was that not an answer to your question?
Doesn't look like you consider it to be one.
PPE Hi Nerjin!
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:30:53 pm
Did you get here on a bus ?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:31:49 pm
I understand that perfectly Jack. I also know he never claimed so. Seriously, can nobody understand english ?PS: Did you even read the conditions of my power?
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
Again, i'm utterly baffled how you can't do anything but say HOW. HOW. HOW. YOu can write and hopefully read, you aren't braindead to the point you can't understand that shit, right ? RIGHT?
You seem to believe that, given that you aren't arguing that, but you're arguing on a tangent related to it.
Post by: Nerjin on August 27, 2014, 04:34:33 pm
Oh and the white knight show themselves.
Did you get here on a bus ?
... Was there a point to that or...?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:40:58 pm
You aren't the mod, neither am I. I've played quite a few BYOR back fuckign 3 years ago, and i've never seen completely broken games from wubbah. Except KILL WEBADICT. Giving town your Panic, with the condition set, and formerly NHQ now Toasty power IS broken.
I'm voting you since you are scum. Hell, i could simply inspect your abilities tonight and confirm it. Depending on toaster, now.
Nerjin
Well, when people tell me to shut up because i offend their frail sensibilities, I call bullshit. She's your friend, now? Always fun to take a bus with a friend.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:43:24 pm
But given that somehow, English isn't your native language and you're able to spout expletives as if they mattered to you, I'm quite distressed at your attitude.
Living ball of rage...
But if or if not you're able to confirm it honestly, that'll have to wait. Unless you're scum that is, which by then it all needs you to lie about who you are.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:46:06 pm
Well, when people tell me to shut up because i offend their frail sensibilities, I call bullshit.It's more 'respect as a player'.
I'm sure you've heard of 'respect', right?
Or on the matter that 'aggression as a form of communication only goes so far', right?
Or...actually learned communication, right? :P
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:49:11 pm
Agression is useful to put pressure when your interlocutor is unalbe or unwilling to answer questions. You don't see me insulting someone like Toaster,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:50:14 pm
I've read your power, obviously. I'm able to read and understand english, even if it's not my first language. Now if only i could expect the same from everyone else, that game would be something else than 2 page oh whuuut? whuuut? and other fucking stupidities.Your perception of how 'broken' it is is subjective and personal. Your viewpoint changes pretty drastically from before to now, to an 'since you are scum' ideology. Pretty much doesn't speak well of scumhunting at all given the distinction of how you're able to verse your logic.
You aren't the mod, neither am I. I've played quite a few BYOR back fuckign 3 years ago, and i've never seen completely broken games from wubbah. Except KILL WEBADICT. Giving town your Panic, with the condition set, and formerly NHQ now Toasty power IS broken.
I'm voting you since you are scum. Hell, i could simply inspect your abilities tonight and confirm it. Depending on toaster, now.
Now, given that you read my power: You can see its based on player count. That doesn't seem to be something which has leverage on your decision of what is broken and what isn't, right?
So let's get to something that is debatable. The orange portion. Could you explain, for everyone, how you understand Toaster here?
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 04:52:46 pm
Agression is useful to put pressure when your interlocutor is unalbe or unwilling to answer questions. You don't see me insulting someone like Toaster,Yeah...useful if the other is not aware that that is the case..Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I, however, already saw that from the start and see it as a trivial or immature form of communication--especially if you devolve into insults and expletives as emphasis for emotions and details, when such are just...useless sprinkles and dirt on paper.
Hint: You never answered me questions or responded to my answers but handwaved them off. You didn't even state any opinion about them--the least I'd expect is 'that's not a valid answer' or 'your answer doesn't make any sense [then you state context].' You don't even try to give your own understanding versus my understanding about it.
You just handwave it off.
And English is my third language here.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:02:27 pm
I handwave bullshit, because that's all you got
Abloo bloo bloo, you are not Wubbah, AND/OR Whut whut can't understand who, why , where huhhh ? Are not fucking answers.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:04:35 pm
Quote
Level 1, straight 3 ability wizard weak
Is that 4th ed D&D ? I swear you young ones with you newfangled systems.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:10:08 pm
Never seen you talk so much, tho. Is it because i kicked the hornet nest ? Can't handle having a vote on you? Classic Scum...You've a real jaded viewpoint on someone who is active enough to post at this time.
Dear goodness. You disappoint me :/
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:12:39 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:15:05 pm
I've answered your questions--you didn't give it any care at all and just kept doing what you were doing despite there already being an answer.
You aren't concerned, are you.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:16:25 pm
You never answered 'what makes a power "town"', scumbag.
If only you could be more detailed than to speak in brevity, it would be a much better way of discourse here.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:30:43 pm
I explained, the same thing, 3 times,
I'll try to do basic logic items, maybe that will help you
If You and NQH Town, then Scum is affected by panic, then Toaster can completely lockdown the night, No Nightkill = Overpowered, game broken to bits.
If you scum , NQH Town, then panic unlikely to affect you/the scum. Scums keep killing power, NQH can lockdown everyone else. Game not broken to hell.
This is circonstantial and uses meta analysis. The fact that voting you made you OMGUS me is only reinforcing it. And i'll verify my claim during the night barring Toaster intervention.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:33:16 pm
So not having a nightkill for scum is overpowered?
Quote
This is circonstantial and uses meta analysis. The fact that voting you made you OMGUS me is only reinforcing it.No, an OMGUS is subjective by perception. I voted you--initially, to get you talking (as a sort of emphasis or leverage vote). What else is left as interpretation by the viewer.
Now it's sticking due to...how you interpret everything, really. Though I'm wavering on the point of you being scum--possibly the SK or someone pretty stressed out.
Post by: Scripten on August 27, 2014, 05:35:38 pm
Peeps need to calm down a hair. Especially you, MBP. There's no reason to belittle other players because you disagree or, worse, you don't accept their answers. Keep in mind that Toaster is a third-party. If he's allied with the town, he sets himself up to be nightkilled, especially if Tiruin is lynched or something else counters either of their powers.
The ability is only potentially overpowered if two alignments come together in a way that is slightly disadvantageous to one.
Do you understand now?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 05:41:30 pm
Tiruin, do you know ahead of time what powers you get at 'X' amount of players?
PFP.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:46:19 pm
Tiruin, do you know ahead of time what powers you get at 'X' amount of players?Yes.
But it is situational :x
Like 'when the # of players is >[certain number], you can [do ability]; when # of players is <[certain #]...'
The number is the same value here.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:47:14 pm
Quote
So not having a nightkill for scum is overpowered?
Are you SERIOUSLY asking this ?
Yes
Yes it is.
Also an OMGUS is not perception. I voted you, you came right back with a vote. That's an OMGUS. Deny it if you want, it is.
Scripten
The whole fucking point is that if Tiruin was town, There would NOT have been any disadvantages. Toaster power was NQH power at the start, who is a confirmed townie. Can't you see ?
Even if NOW its a 3rd party that got it, the fact that both powers would be owned by townies at the start makes it at the very least unlikely unless Wubbah got hit on the head and decided to give town an easy win.
Furthermore,
Quote
If he's allied with the town, he sets himself up to be nightkilled,depends on the source of the panic. He's setting himself to be killed IF scum can NK, which would need Tiruin to be town. ANd in any case, Tiruin is not necessary anymore. Now that the panic is on, he just need to keep it going. It's all Toaster game now.
Cheetar
No, i'm an ability cop. I've claimed and proved it with Toaster ''Lawless Scavenger''. COnsidering her 1 shot is done, i doubt ill need mroe than 1-2 night to see if there are nightkills in there.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:51:18 pm
Yes. I am seriously asking that. Because it gives detail to my knowledge of who you are.QuoteSo not having a nightkill for scum is overpowered?
Are you SERIOUSLY asking this ?
Yes
Yes it is.
Thank you.
Quote
Also an OMGUS is not perception. I voted you, you came right back with a vote. That's an OMGUS. Deny it if you want, it is.. . .I'm judging what an OMGUS is by added reference to the meaning of it in the BM.
Meaning: There's a meaning of OMGUS. Oh My God You Suck.
And there're added connotations beneath the word, hence why I'm arguing it isn't an OMGUS in that form. :I
Voting someone back with a vote doesn't necessarily mean OMGUS, unless there is no reason at all for the vote to exist, if only to just 'vote' back the person voting them for arbitrary value.
...That isn't why I voted you.
Quote
wat.
The whole fucking point is that if Tiruin was town, There would NOT have been any disadvantages. Toaster power was NQH power at the start, who is a confirmed townie. Can't you see ?
Even if NOW its a 3rd party that got it, the fact that both powers would be owned by townies at the start makes it at the very least unlikely unless Wubbah got hit on the head and decided to give town an easy win.
So you're judging me because...well, emphasis on the orange part, it's very jaded.
Post by: Nerjin on August 27, 2014, 05:52:15 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 05:54:08 pm
Yes, i'm judging you because you being town means Wubbah is a crazy. I've played many wubbah game, he's not a crazy.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 05:58:08 pm
I've already detailed why I chose to shoot it off (which would pretty much explain everything you've been accusing me of, Puppet.) instead of not shooting it off. Here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607617;topicseen#msg5607617)
I am surprised why you didn't make that a single point in your case...puppet.
instead, you made something...wholly unrealistic as your case. I mean, sure, I understand that case of perceived imbalance, and its only now that I'm beginning to get your standpoint, sans all the useless crap added onto it with the fucking and the expletives.
Now about the disadvantages though...
What disadvantages are you talking about?
Keep defending your hubby, Nerjin,:3
Yes, i'm judging you because you being town means Wubbah is a crazy. I've played many wubbah game, he's not a crazy.
He's crazy then.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 06:04:54 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 06:06:42 pm
That's what it does. It affects everyone else but me.
THere would be no disadvantages since If town , you ability would have likely affected scum too. If it didn't it would be completely useless save for screwing your teammates. So, if you are town and your ability affect scum, then the lockdown also remove the NK from the game and transform it in a day game exclusively, barring some scum being immune and whatnot.So isn't that a good thing? For everyone BUT SCUM!?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 06:08:29 pm
Which means it'S not happening, because Wuba is not crazy.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 06:18:04 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 06:18:20 pm
And whoever said that it becomes complete lockdown? Either I've missed a post with that idea or I'm really missing it. Where was it mentioned that Toaster can /"complete lockdown"\. It's an Auto--knowing TOaster steals auto's, anyway.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 06:24:34 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 06:25:25 pm
Sure. The ability by itself is annoying, nothing more. It's the combo it opens that's OP. It's not a good idea to do, but assuming perfect play is not the way to win at mafia. Saves themselves over getting revealed by a cop, at the very least.
TIruin
That's why i asked you to read. It's been explained by Toaster. He can manipulate luck, and just say that panic has 100% chance of working and staying there. There you go, complete lockdown. He could be lying about it, but his claim fits with my inspect from N2, so i'm inclined to believe him.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 06:31:40 pm
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 06:39:29 pm
MBP, i dont helieve you can tell poeple alignment from their power. Someone say that to me when i talked about mass claim. I dont think lockdown is a scummy power per say as if only scum got to act everynight then.... That op too. Also you ask why tirurin cant explain how her poer is town, would you want to try explain why flabort one shot is town as everyone seem to think it is scum also.
Toaster, I still only half believe you lockdown claim. It seem ridiculousely op. I dont think it is impossible that it is real but maybe i have it greater purpose. So how does redacted work? Do you choose the power if the dead guy have more than one auto? Also wold you be so nice and radom my power back at me *puppy face*
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 06:44:34 pm
Tiruin, MBP: Toaster claims to have gotten this confirmed by Webadict. Shouldn't we at least give it a chance of a flawless town victory? And also lynch Toaster for his revive so he can't screw us over quite as badly if he so wishes?I'd not go with lynching TOaster given MBP//TolyK's claims on him, meaning I'm against Toaster being killed in that manner, if he's non-scum. TolyK's claims as a {Town/Neutral} note.
So...yeah, why not? Block me though if you want to be skeptical, not that I mind. I'm able to full inspect (or...alignment inspect as a night action? Unsure what 'inspect' means though) if the # of players = 13. Below this, and I'm nominally useless.
Unvote.
Though let me get my facts straight.
Toaster. [Reference (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5595814;topicseen#msg5595814)] He has probably stolen from four people:
> Has NQT's Auto which lets him 'control' "probability". To the extent of how it works, as well as how far the Auto power goes, is unknown however. (ie Is it personally controlled or can it, somehow, control others, given that its contextually an "Auto"). [NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5593832#msg5593832)]
> Something from Persus13 (see above)
> Has a Revive. [Flabort (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5590809#msg5590809)]
> Something from Shakerag (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5568447#msg5568447)
General query: Can someone counter check what Flabort said here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5567660;topicseen#msg5567660), however? Specifically this line:
Quote
Shakerag I'm going to get lynched today. I will revive. What is your emotional reaction to this? Also, who else do you suspect of being scum?Err, as in, Flabort reviving and all.
It would be weird that a Survivor gets such a power as 'steal all autos' but -_- TolyK and Puppet.
Problem is, I'm unsure where it was stated (compared to the believability where everyone else is talking about) that TOaster can affect that 'lockdown' idea on everyone else.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 06:48:45 pm
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made :).
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 06:51:11 pm
This being after Webadict was active and Toaster asked for clarifications on if lockdown was possible:\o/Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made :).
So...this means? Given that tomorrow seems like massclaim day and the request is put in (if a bluff, it's a real tough one), anyone up for Massclaiming today as an idea?
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 06:52:18 pm
Post by: Varee on August 27, 2014, 06:52:48 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 06:53:45 pm
And yeah, extend.
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 06:56:16 pm
Tirurin flabort revive when someone day kill him at d1 extend. He later say that his power work once per cycleSo lynching Toaster won't work then given his request, presumably due to how it works out.
...Unless the 'lockdown' also comes into play for that.
Extend too.
I'm up for a mass claim on Day 4, if and only if Toaster's plan works. Given that he could screw us over, and as a survivor it'd just help his wincon, I think we should lynch him today so we can threaten him with a day 4 lynch if he doesn't go through with complete lockdown.So...Toaster then?
And yeah, extend.
Toaster: What does NQT's Auto do? By 'control', are you able to set the chance to a set amount (say, 95% chance? :P) What do you mean by 'control' is what I mean.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 27, 2014, 07:24:20 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 27, 2014, 08:15:07 pm
Again... I hate to say it but I'm not trusting this Brave Little Toaster right now. Mainly because well... He's a survivor with a revive. Seems a little... Unwise to let that run around unchecked. This should force some compliance if he's telling the truth. Or kill him if he's a lying liar from Liarsburg.
Post by: Jack A T on August 27, 2014, 08:19:28 pm
Unvote: my target disappeared from the forum and I'm confused.
Webadict: Imp has not been online since the 23rd. Please prod and probably replace.
Alright, so at least I now know what happened with my power transfers.
N1: TolyK gave Filler Ability to Tiruin.
N2: Varee's kill was supposed to go from him to Tiruin, but apparently went to TolyK instead.
TolyK: Please give the name of the kill you got from Varee.
Jack: I have a feeling thatyour plan might not work. Certain power might not be blockable.Varee: Exactly my point. There's almost definitely some sort of strong counter. By the way, when TolyK says your kill's name, please say whether it's true or not.
MBP: Your entire attack on Tiruin, as you clarified it (dependent on the combo), seems to be built on an odd set of assumptions. Why are you assuming that scum doesn't just have some sort of unstoppability powers or something else that counters the combo? Why are you assuming that the panic is what's in scum hands, not just a way around the panic? Are there not many ways for Wuba to balance the relevant set of powers, no matter whose hands those powers are in (particularly in a game like this, where powers are rapidly flying from player to player and town powers can quickly become scum powers)?
Post by: Silthuri on August 27, 2014, 08:24:06 pm
My internet decided to give up on life tonight. I'll try to get up to speed again tomorrow.
Pfp
Post by: Toaster on August 27, 2014, 08:25:56 pm
If an ability uses randomness as a factor, I can choose that in any way that I would like.
I claimed what I got from whom here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5595534#msg5595534). I don't know if I could change the probability to something other than the stated odds besides 100% or 0%, but I don't see why I couldn't. (I also don't see why I would want to do that, but that's beside the point.)
Also, I have no choice as to what abilities I get. For the record (and MBP/4mask->UI can confirm this) it does not say it's randomly chosen, leading me to believe Web pre-chose what I would get from each player.
MBP, be civil.
Please maintain a chill atmosphere.
Post by: webadict on August 27, 2014, 08:29:51 pm
Webadict: Imp has not been online since the 23rd. Please prod and probably replace.I prodded her a bit. Seems she hasn't been on to receive said prods.
Since I don't count weekends, she's only been out for less than 72 hours. Hopefully nothing has happened to her.
Also,
Mysteriousbluepuppet
I would kindly ask you to be more civil, please. I understand the nature of the game maintains some amount of hostile interactions, but personal attacks are not fun to deal with. If you want to personally attack me, feel free, but I will not allow as such on your fellow players. Thank you for your cooperation in the matter.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 08:41:21 pm
I'm easy to anger when people dilly dally, just saying.
Post by: webadict on August 27, 2014, 09:06:53 pm
Fine.That's alright. I don't mind anger. Just try not to be too angry at players. Be angry with their play. Then we can all go back to killing each other amiably.
I'm easy to anger when people dilly dally, just saying.
Let me know if anything's wrong.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, Scripten,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
Toaster - Cheeetar, Tiruin, Nerjin,
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
Varee - Toaster, Silthuri,
Not Voting - Imp, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Varee, Jack A T,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 24 hours from this post.)
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 09:08:52 pm
This! D:Fine.That's alright. I don't mind anger. Just try not to be too angry at players. Be angry with their play. Then we can all go back to killing each other amiably.
I'm easy to anger when people dilly dally, just saying.
Though really--was my answer seen as valid or was it seen as [BS]? I'm honestly curious.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 27, 2014, 09:16:59 pm
Let me know if anything's wrong.
Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 46 hours from this post.)
Just this one thing, really :P
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 09:18:50 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 09:19:25 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 27, 2014, 11:44:54 pm
M'eh, no. I don't see an actual answer, but i'll drop it off for now.@_@
No seriously.
...Actual answer?
...Got it.
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 04:40:05 am
I didn't even bother reading through the second half of MBP/Tiruin discussion/arguing/whatever. Just saying.
Now. Clearing some facts.
N1 I lost a 'Filler Ability', which was given to Tiruin. Persus said that he took off Tiruin's Miller, which Tiruin confirmed, and given Persus was town I'm inclined to believe both of them, which is why I said that Tiruin is very likely town (along with claiming getting my Filler Ability). I did not do anything (that I know of) to the Miller.
The one-shot kill is called the opposite of "Yes, I can". Direct opposite in name (all the words). I can say the whole name if you want.
Extend.
This night my inspect is powered-up. Whoever we say that I should investigate could also be unblocked and action (also should be predetermined by us). The problem is if said person is scum - they could perform a final NK, e.g. on me.
What does everyone think? Also, who would we lynch today?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 28, 2014, 04:44:39 am
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 04:53:51 am
Might I humbly suggest Toaster, TolyK?I don't know. We know that he isn't town, but lynching him could hamper our night (due to backlash etc etc).
Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role....Uh huh....Waitaminute. I knew something wasn't in my post.That night, Tiruin actioned me as well, and was de-millered, which is now confirmed by a dead townie. Thus, Tiruin is definitely not scum and very likely town.Also, whoever targeted me, I'm sorry about that. Unless of course it's a horse. Then just keep it.What's all this about?
<.<
TolyK.
I never targeted you. I hit Cheeetar and Flabort.
I was sure you targeted me to take away a power of mine. Because you got my Filler Ability...
So I got an ability that IS JUST THE SAME AS PANICKED IN DETAIL AND EFFECT, for some reason?
Because its very much like YOU TARGETED ME given the usage of that power there, now.
So tell me TolyK, how in the world would you have a power of...yours..when said power is a detriment if you have it?
>_>
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 28, 2014, 04:55:49 am
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 05:39:09 am
Any other ideas?
Wait a second. Varee, don't say much more about your abilities, except to confirm that I got your kill name right. Jack, what exactly did you do these two nights?
Post by: Varee on August 28, 2014, 05:46:34 am
Well, I don't know.Well it too late for that but I think you got the name right
Any other ideas?
Wait a second. Varee, don't say much more about your abilities, except to confirm that I got your kill name right. Jack, what exactly did you do these two nights?
Post by: Tiruin on August 28, 2014, 06:13:54 am
Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Also yes. It is quite much the same. 50% fail. 50% lose any ability (even itself...)
Explain please :O
Lynching him is a better guarantee of co-operation with town (because then he is threatened by us) than letting him have free roam.Either we don't lynch him and lynch the scummiest person alive or we go straight with lynching him?
I'm a bit fried on comprehension this day...
Post by: Cheeetar on August 28, 2014, 06:50:42 am
Lynching him is a better guarantee of co-operation with town (because then he is threatened by us) than letting him have free roam.Either we don't lynch him and lynch the scummiest person alive or we go straight with lynching him?
I'm a bit fried on comprehension this day...
We can do either- I'd prefer lynching Toaster than Varee because we can then confirm if Varee is scum etc with investigatory roles.
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 08:23:45 am
...Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Also yes. It is quite much the same. 50% fail. 50% lose any ability (even itself...)
Explain please :O
I thought you targeted me in order to take one of my powers, of which I gave you my "Filler Ability".
It turns out that Jack gave you it from me.
Different 50% chances, so no luck there to you.
I don't understand what it is you're not understanding.
Post by: Tiruin on August 28, 2014, 10:29:50 am
What do you mean no luck -_- It has exactly the same-...Same question to you: Why did you have a Miller power? Same answer: To nerf my role.Err, my question wasn't sarcastic. It was based on your wording in the quote mentioned. You said I targeted you to...get your power.
Also, it's not the same. You have a 50% chance not to fail your ability, but to lose an ability.
... Right?
Also yes. It is quite much the same. 50% fail. 50% lose any ability (even itself...)
Explain please :O
I thought you targeted me in order to take one of my powers, of which I gave you my "Filler Ability".
It turns out that Jack gave you it from me.
Different 50% chances, so no luck there to you.
I don't understand what it is you're not understanding.
*rereads*
...Well ok, not exactly the same meaning but-..
Huh, forgot to compute if the second [IF] factor is related to the first >_>
Yeah, my mistake. Misunderstood the '50% [disappear] everyday' to my own '50% succeed; 50% disappear @D start'.
Bluhh prelim fried mind.
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 11:00:08 am
What is our night plan? Toaster, what can you do and what would you be willing to do?
Post by: Toaster on August 28, 2014, 11:04:48 am
Post by: Varee on August 28, 2014, 11:24:33 am
Post by: Toaster on August 28, 2014, 11:25:34 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 28, 2014, 11:29:59 am
Toaster, can you manipulate Tiruin's Filler ability to remove itself?
Post by: webadict on August 28, 2014, 12:01:32 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 28, 2014, 02:23:37 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2014, 02:54:23 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 28, 2014, 05:26:51 pm
Toaster can you give me the house tonight ^_^...Weren't you the housemaker?
Also I can fully act tonight since I don't have Panicked :v
Just checking.
And on that note, I'm seriously checking [either one of MBP, Scripten, Varee or Nerjin [because I'd like to solidify something on him]. My actions for the first 2 nights have 'failed', for posterity.
Post by: Varee on August 28, 2014, 06:17:47 pm
So toaster, who will you be directing the power too?
Post by: Toaster on August 28, 2014, 09:06:26 pm
So toaster, who will you be directing the power too?
Since we're extending so much, that raises an excellent question.
Everyone: Assuming that Varee is telling the truth about his house power, where should it be aimed?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 28, 2014, 09:13:33 pm
Post by: webadict on August 28, 2014, 09:58:20 pm
Let me know if anything's wrong.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - IronyOwl, Scripten,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - Cheeetar, Tiruin, Nerjin,
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
Varee - Toaster, Silthuri,
Not Voting - TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Varee, Jack A T,
Day (Officially) Extended. I'll allow 1 additional Extension this Day, but only because of Replacements.
7 to Hammer. Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 100+ hours from this post.)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 28, 2014, 10:08:09 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on August 28, 2014, 10:10:02 pm
Post by: Nerjin on August 28, 2014, 10:44:10 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on August 29, 2014, 12:48:43 am
So first off, I disapprove of antagonizing our new shenanigans pet by murdering him. Even if he can't pull off the full townie time stop, I don't see any particular reason to soften him up right now.
Secondly, I approve of naively and optimistically trying it, wide-eyed and hopeful that we've just broken the game over three players' knees.
To more personal business, I'm going to very reluctantly unvote Cheeetar. I'm too frazzled in this game to get a good read on him anyway, but I was starting to suspect he was flailing notscum back when I was relatively active and reading over his thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5594766#msg5594766) seems to loosely be more of the same.
MBP:
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.What does scum "not needing fancy things" have to do with inconveniencing a lot of other people?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.Did you miss this? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572491;topicseen#msg5572491) Surely murdering every other player in the game is weaker than a 50% roleblock debuff with a 50% chance to fade each night? I'd even peg 13 players as harder to hit than N4, at that. There was, unless I'm missing something, a pretty decent chance of her never getting to use it at all.
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
I don't understand your issues with the combo, either. Why would this make perfect sense as a scum ability but not as a town ability, with the chance thing in the hands of a townie but stealable on death by a survivor?
Heh, that's true. But i do fear that then it would advantage them. They got a survivor they can keep around, and Panic with him render rolecopping moot. If they get 2-3 favorable lynch they got it golden. And the further we go, the easier it will be fore them, knowing what sides they are on and all.And what the hell is this all about? You're worried that if Toaster turns on us AND scum gets 2-3 free lynches we're going to lose? Why even bother with that kind of scenario?
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.This is better, but it relies on a town massclaim, everyone trusting each other, and there being no other counters to it. A better question might be whether Panic would really be so useless. You can only use it IF- not when- the player count is exactly 13, it's a day ability so it can't catch anyone unawares, and it targets everyone so everyone is likely to realize at some point that it's been used. Then it's just a matter of its town counter deciding to block everyone he doesn't trust and let everyone he does trust off the hook? How is that a specific-situation scum one-shot?
And for that matter, care to explain how a scum had a miller ability?
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.This is a fair point, though. If we are going to murder Toaster- and I still approve of not- we're better off doing it sooner rather than later.
Toaster:
Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.*town-survivor brofist*
Cheeetar:
Idea: Seeing as Toaster already has a revive, we should lynch him today so if he lets us down tonight (aka townies die) we won't have to spend another two days lynching him for town to have a chance in the night phase.Bad for four reasons.
Good? Bad?
One, going all Evil Overlord on our new minion is probably unwise. Executing your best asset for failing you once tends to not work out very well.
Two, a wasted lynch is a wasted lynch. I don't see why pushing it forward saves us anything.
Three, if it does work it'll have wasted a lynch pre-emptively. That's even less productive.
Four, we'd be softening him up for a scumkill. I'd much rather our new pet remain well-armored until such time as we declare him a treacherous cur, which he's likely smart enough to avoid.
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.I'd disagree on this, too. He's got a very good reason to side with us- we'll lynch him if he's anything below neutral, and possibly if he's anything below helpful.
Furthermore, I doubt scum have a teamwide ability that lets them bypass the lock. Even if they have a counter to it, I suspect it's not going to be a complete and total counter that renders the whole idea worthless.
TWS:
Can someone sum up all the important stuff please? 67 pages is a lot.Aw hell.
The main hubbub at the beginning of the game was flabort panicking and putting Shakerag and Cheeetar at L-1 to hammer. Cheeetar instantly murdered Shakerag, who turned out to be an SK-ally.
Night came, no nightkills, we had merry discussions about the exact ramifications of Cheeetar's little incident. flabort was eventually murdered himself and flipped town.
Then... I lurked for a while, and when I came back Toaster was an ability-scavenging survivor who now has NQT's old ability that lets him mess with chance-based things at will. Tiruin used an AOE ability that applied Panic to everyone, meaning now in theory Toaster can just perma-lock the night.
TolyK claims rolecop, so the current plan is some shade of having Toaster obliterate the night phase for anyone but TolyK, who inspects people one by one. Obvious flaws in this plan include that wubsy has probably not overlooked the possibility of this combo and therefore someone unpleasant somewhere is probably able to counter it in some fashion.
Other than that, Varee's useless and has supposedly been granting people extra abilities each night but we don't know where they've gone. MBP and Tiruin got into a spat about Tiruin's Panic ability, and... that's all I can remember.
I was probably not the very best candidate to bring you up to speed.
Post by: TolyK on August 29, 2014, 12:53:20 am
Post by: Cheeetar on August 29, 2014, 01:13:33 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 29, 2014, 02:41:34 am
Illtry that wall of textg thing, not my fault if it fucks up
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Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 26, 2014, 04:16:32 pm
And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.
What does scum "not needing fancy things" have to do with inconveniencing a lot of other people?
I don't remember the context forthe fancy stuff. I don't really intend to go reread what i wrote when i was mad as hell, not good for my soul . My reasoning for the vote will follow in the other posts.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselves.
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
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Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 12:24:11 am
Heh, that's true. But i do fear that then it would advantage them. They got a survivor they can keep around, and Panic with him render rolecopping moot. If they get 2-3 favorable lynch they got it golden. And the further we go, the easier it will be fore them, knowing what sides they are on and all.
And what the hell is this all about? You're worried that if Toaster turns on us AND scum gets 2-3 free lynches we're going to lose? Why even bother with that kind of scenario?
Because Toaster is a 3rd party, not town. Shit like that happen.
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Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
This is better, but it relies on a town massclaim, everyone trusting each other, and there being no other counters to it. A better question might be whether Panic would really be so useless. You can only use it IF- not when- the player count is exactly 13, it's a day ability so it can't catch anyone unawares, and it targets everyone so everyone is likely to realize at some point that it's been used. Then it's just a matter of its town counter deciding to block everyone he doesn't trust and let everyone he does trust off the hook? How is that a specific-situation scum one-shot?
And for that matter, care to explain how a scum had a miller ability?
I don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.
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Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 27, 2014, 04:16:14 pm
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.
This is a fair point, though. If we are going to murder Toaster- and I still approve of not- we're better off doing it sooner rather than later.
Yup. Again as i said, Policy lynch for survivors exist for a reason. They are not town. And the latter we go, the mroe detrimental they get.
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 03:10:38 am
What does a house do?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 29, 2014, 03:57:57 am
PFP
What does a house do?
It's not the best explanation, but:
Toaster: here the exact word of the power
Your unstoppable need to build things causes a random player (including you) is given a random ability that coincides with their role each Night. You may choose to target (excluding you) this as a free action.
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 04:02:39 am
So...he picks someone, yet it goes off randomly? Strange.
Still a bit confused on how you can control others' auto's Toaster, but just preparing for prelims here. Will get a nice read over the weekend.
Post by: Toaster on August 29, 2014, 07:55:55 am
Point A:
The ability steal is a Auto that that scavenge the ability of a dead player, and REDACTED it. Also, losing it = death, apparently.
Point B:
Nah, that's me. Yeah, I've been getting those abilities, in return for not having any to start with.
For the record:
Shakerag: An auto that does nothing, but is removed first if an auto ability is removed.
Flabort: His revive, which pretty much works as he claimed it
NQT: He can dictate how random abilities work. Therefore, it's extremely safe to assume that he didn't kill himself, block claims notwithstanding.
Persus: Immunity to Shakerag. Shakerag cannot action this person, including this person being unlynchable if Shakerag is voting him.
I don't have any non-auto actions. And yes, if I lose that auto, I die.
Point C:
Okay, you got me. I am a Survivor.
I am The Player of BYOR 13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply. Apparently that means 1) I don't get actual actions 2) I don't care for the normal Town/Mafia alignment rules. I was hoping for some sort of crazy outsider alignment, or a hilarious role that could edit posts and talk at night and such hilarity, but alas.
I have no actions to claim because I have no non-auto actions.
Post by: TheWetSheep on August 29, 2014, 09:38:02 am
MBP:
WIch is a damn shame, since i wanted to use my copper-ingWhat ability is this?
Irony: Thanks.
Two, a wasted lynch is a wasted lynch. I don't see why pushing it forward saves us anything.I disagree. It's better to waste a lynch earlier in the game, where we know less and we've got a bigger margin between scum and town.
Tiruin: From the pieces I've read of the game, you were a miller, then lost it to Persus, who confirmed it by dying and flipping town. You were also inspected at some point. Is this right?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 29, 2014, 09:45:15 am
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 09:46:17 am
Yes? I'm unsure if someone inspected me yet though. The last sentence I've no idea of.
Tiruin: From the pieces I've read of the game, you were a miller, then lost it to Persus, who confirmed it by dying and flipping town. You were also inspected at some point. Is this right?
Post by: Varee on August 29, 2014, 09:48:40 am
Oh huh.I think if my target freeaction failed it still go off at random.
So...he picks someone, yet it goes off randomly? Strange.
Still a bit confused on how you can control others' auto's Toaster, but just preparing for prelims here. Will get a nice read over the weekend.
Post by: Toaster on August 29, 2014, 10:14:36 am
(Auto) Picturesque: You can create any role and alignment. Any actions that take role, action, or alignment information will use that. This can be changed at any time. Note: This will take everything word for word.
I'm guessing the control is more of an attribute then an actual action. Configurable autos have precedent, certainly.
Post by: TheWetSheep on August 29, 2014, 10:42:08 am
Post by: Toaster on August 29, 2014, 12:36:25 pm
Controlling an ability is easier if I know what it is. If I don't have details, I can only make blank general statements. (If PlayerX randomly targets someone, it's not me, and things like that.)
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 03:12:22 pm
On that note ,TolyK: Why were there 2 reads in your inspect?
Panicked is a state of constant terror; anyone who has it has a 50% chance to succeed at actions, with this ability having a half chance to disappear at the start of each Day.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 29, 2014, 03:52:35 pm
The unfortunate part of us lynching him if he ever turns out to be unhelpful? We'll need to do it twice, and even then we won't have killed a scum. If he chooses to do so, he can give the scum two nights of complete immunity to town, in which they may do as they wish. This would be really bad, and we need to lower the chances of it happening. To those saying 'what if scum then nightkill him?'- in that case, he couldn't lock down scum anyway and all we've lost is a third party aka somebody who has no motive to help town win.But why would he? It'd be painting a giant target on his chest in a game with a lot of unpredictable shenanigans.
And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter.
MBP:
I don't remember the context forthe fancy stuff. I don't really intend to go reread what i wrote when i was mad as hell, not good for my soul . My reasoning for the vote will follow in the other posts.Fair enough, though this is in line with my interpretation that you seemed to be panicking at this whole situation.
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselvesWhat? Why would scum be immune to it by default? It sounds like you're saying that this combo shouldn't affect scum at all and is therefore reasonable but harmful as a town ability.
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
For the second part, did you see the role I linked? Do you have an explanation for why that could be perfectly balanced but this couldn't, beyond what you've said above about it not affecting scum in the first place? And in the same vein, what about the severe targeting restriction countered by a town auto ability?
Finally, why would it be alright if scum got to use the combo but not alright if town did?
Because Toaster is a 3rd party, not town. Shit like that happen.Third parties cause us to give scum 2-3 favorable lynches?
I don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
You're saying a Miller is scum.
Post by: TolyK on August 29, 2014, 05:31:16 pm
i really just hope you're a survivor which TolyK's {Town} & {Neutral} thing is true with.It's because Flabort his behind Toaster, I targeted Toaster, and my action was copied to Flabort as well. The results were mixed though (dammit Wuba :p).
On that note ,TolyK: Why were there 2 reads in your inspect?
Also, @miller removal, she could still be the SK, or scum who lied about losing it to get confirmed somehow. The second is unlikely at best, but still possible.
Does anyone want anyone else inspected? I'll take your opinions into consideration.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 29, 2014, 05:54:47 pm
Cheeetar:The unfortunate part of us lynching him if he ever turns out to be unhelpful? We'll need to do it twice, and even then we won't have killed a scum. If he chooses to do so, he can give the scum two nights of complete immunity to town, in which they may do as they wish. This would be really bad, and we need to lower the chances of it happening. To those saying 'what if scum then nightkill him?'- in that case, he couldn't lock down scum anyway and all we've lost is a third party aka somebody who has no motive to help town win.But why would he? It'd be painting a giant target on his chest in a game with a lot of unpredictable shenanigans.
And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter.
"Cannot stop scum from killing town while at the same time can stop all town from doing anything ever" = useless.
Why would he do it? Because there's something he hasn't told us about his alignment, or because he has a feeling that scum would be able to win within two flawless, uninterrupted nights if he sides with them. We don't need to guess at why he might do it, we need to eliminate the chance of it happening. If this works and Toaster sides with us we have won. Let's do our best to make sure this happens, eh?
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2014, 07:32:00 pm
Err, on that note--Persus targeted an auto (which I rambled about back in my ..big post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607617;topicseen#msg5607617) back there?) :PI don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
You're saying a Miller is scum.
Yeah, I'm not the SK. :vi really just hope you're a survivor which TolyK's {Town} & {Neutral} thing is true with.It's because Flabort his behind Toaster, I targeted Toaster, and my action was copied to Flabort as well. The results were mixed though (dammit Wuba :p).
On that note ,TolyK: Why were there 2 reads in your inspect?
Also, @miller removal, she could still be the SK, or scum who lied about losing it to get confirmed somehow. The second is unlikely at best, but still possible.
Does anyone want anyone else inspected? I'll take your opinions into consideration.
Both my actions N1/2 failed. As in, they failed. They weren't redirected or whatever--they failed.
Inspect me! \o/
Who are your choices for inspection, TolyK. I'm wary of investigators being scum here [/obv] :v
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 29, 2014, 07:39:57 pm
I'm going with the most likely function of that panic. Disrupting town to give the scum a chance. early on
Post by: Varee on August 29, 2014, 07:53:47 pm
Ok i understand that toaster might be lying and lockdown might not actually work but even if it dont work, it doesnt really affect the game much anyway.
Anyway i agree with lynching toaster just for the guarantee that we can get rid of him tmr if something fishy happen. Even if this might kill him tonight, we will atleast know that his ability doesnt work the way he say it should or scum have a unstoppable kill or at the very least we force a oneshot unstoppable kill.
Post by: TolyK on August 30, 2014, 02:03:40 am
And I wouldn't be for a Toaster lynch, but whatever.
Post by: IronyOwl on August 30, 2014, 02:39:08 am
Does anyone want anyone else inspected? I'll take your opinions into consideration.If MBP's not dead, which I'll not be happy about, confirming him as scum after all or an ability cop could be nice.
More generally, there are two nice classes of people to inspect: Suspicious people, so we don't have to waste a lynch on them if they're town, and people with useful actions, so we can let them run amok if Toaster's thingy works. Both is even better, ie MBP/Varee.
Speaking of which, who have you confirmed so far?
Cheeetar:
No, it's not. I just explained why it's not. He might be able to lock down scum but not the SK. He might be able to lock down all actions save a specific one-shot. He might be able to out someone as lying about their role.And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter."Cannot stop scum from killing town while at the same time can stop all town from doing anything ever" = useless.
"Cannot stop all kills forever" != useless.
Why would he do it? Because there's something he hasn't told us about his alignment, or because he has a feeling that scum would be able to win within two flawless, uninterrupted nights if he sides with them. We don't need to guess at why he might do it, we need to eliminate the chance of it happening. If this works and Toaster sides with us we have won. Let's do our best to make sure this happens, eh?He's not gonna give up his cushy job as town antiaction field on a hunch. He's probably not even gonna give up his cushy job as town antiaction field on a promise- the same "what if he's hiding something" shenanigans apply to the town at least as much as they do him. I would agree that there's a chance of him betraying and murdering us all, but I would argue that it's a particularly small one.
MBP:
If scum isn't immune,then why have this ability ? You risk failling your NK, and lose the other actions from ally scum. Again, it's a thing of balance. I guess you could have the person launching it be immune, but then he must do the NK.This is circular logic. "This ability would be worthless on scum, therefore it's a scum ability but they're immune to it."
I'm going with the most likely function of that panic. Disrupting town to give the scum a chance. early onBased on what? You've ignored every question I've raised about it, from a prior example to feasibility concerns, and are relying on circular logic and Tiruin lying in a hyperspecific way to make your version work.
I don't think you actually think Tiriun's scum. I think you're terrified/enraged at the combo because it's ruining your wincon.
Post by: TolyK on August 30, 2014, 04:14:55 am
I am also inclined to believe Tiruin and Varee due to them being fairly transparent.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 30, 2014, 05:14:56 am
Cheeetar:No, it's not. I just explained why it's not. He might be able to lock down scum but not the SK. He might be able to lock down all actions save a specific one-shot. He might be able to out someone as lying about their role.And I'd like to reiterate that "cannot stop all NKs forever" is not the same as "useless." Again, recall the counter to Goddess- scum revives, ability steals, and a 50% town kill magnet. That didn't mean the ability was worthless or didn't affect scum, it just meant it had a counter."Cannot stop scum from killing town while at the same time can stop all town from doing anything ever" = useless.
"Cannot stop all kills forever" != useless.
Let's assume there's a kill on Night 3. What then? Do we continue to have Toaster block everybody (most assuredly all town actions unless somebody hasn't claimed something) in the hope that it was 'just a one-shot' or something?
And how exactly would Toaster be able to show that somebody was lying about their role?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 30, 2014, 05:28:50 pm
Actually, don't. I'll save you the hassle. It is OP for Town, so it's not town. Easy enough to understand?
Post by: TolyK on August 30, 2014, 05:50:44 pm
Also, meta-reasons are totally the best reasons for lynching someone who's been seen as very likely town. :p
Post by: Jack A T on August 30, 2014, 06:14:08 pm
Did MBP ever answer my questions?
Post by: Cheeetar on August 30, 2014, 07:55:19 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 30, 2014, 11:16:34 pm
MBP:
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselves.As a scum tool, it doesn't seem powerful enough to warrant the playercount == 13 restriction, especially since the charade of scum being affected would go away if they did anything publicly visible (like a kill), as NQT/Toaster would simply reverse the current plan and allow everything/remove the ability. And with his regenerating revive, Toaster doesn't need to fear the scum nearly as much, and instead can afford to ingratiate himself to the town.
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
TolyK: Define "neutral" re: your inspection results.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on August 30, 2014, 11:48:05 pm
Urist
They still get a almost free night, with lower chances of inspec, protect, etc. It's not weak, at all.
Post by: TolyK on August 31, 2014, 02:45:13 am
He's a goddamn confirmed survivor.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on August 31, 2014, 08:18:17 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 04:40:43 am
TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Jack A T- None of you are voting: Why?
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2014, 09:40:13 am
Actually, though.
Ugh. Labor day today, right?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 01, 2014, 10:25:39 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 11:14:35 am
Votecount please?
Post by: Varee on September 01, 2014, 11:20:27 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 01, 2014, 11:21:27 am
Cheeetar: What's this about heading toward a tie vote?
Nerjin: You're voting Toaster, why pardon him as well?
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 11:29:56 am
I've already explained why.
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2014, 12:06:49 pm
I trust Varee. Why would scum or an SK have a one-shot kill? I did recieve a one-shot kill.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 01, 2014, 12:33:15 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 03:09:58 pm
Yeah... I'm gonna Pardon Toaster. I disagree that killing him would be beneficial to us. So yeah. That's fun. No ties.
Votecount please?
Urgh. Unvote Toaster, vote Varee. I do hope you've actually used that ability, and you aren't just saying that you're using it to trick us.
Nerjin, I'll have you know that this is suspicious, especially considering how earlier you thought a Toaster lynch would be fine and you only switched to Varee so he wouldn't continue to 'coast'. TolyK, what's this about 'as much possible info'? Do you have an actual case, or are you just voting to appear active? You have plenty of time to make a case and plenty of material to work off.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 03:11:50 pm
Wait a minute. The last votecount showed Toaster in the lead at three votes. The only two votes since then have been Irony moving from Cheeetar to MBP and Varee moving from not voting to Toaster, so Toaster's winning even harder now.
Cheeetar: What's this about heading toward a tie vote?
Nerjin moved from Varee to Toaster, making Varee the preferred lynch. Then Varee voted for Toaster (likely purely out of self preservation) tying the vote again. I am also suspicious about Nerjin pardoning Toaster.
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 04:15:54 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2014, 04:25:26 pm
I'm starting university (undergrad)... today (in 8 hours o.O) and am on the verge of going insane (almost literally).
Therefore I will vote you for whatever reasons I have. It won't affect the outcome (the lynch), but I wanted to get my point through.
Tiruin, what do you plan on doing this night?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 05:40:47 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 05:45:43 pm
Tiruin, what do you plan on doing this night?Action'ing one of my suspects (MBP, Varee...someone someone(?) Nerjin..) as mentioned earlier in the thread. Though knowing that my actions have failed in the last 2 nights, I'm very suspicious as to who is doing it and why.
Yeah... I'm gonna Pardon Toaster. I disagree that killing him would be beneficial to us. So yeah. That's fun. No ties.For posterity, if I die, y'all have to go get Toaster :v This wholly affects my stance on him.
Votecount please?
PFP
I'm really tired of the unsubstantiated way you act, TolyK. You didn't fully explain your percentages yesterday, either, and if you are actually suspicious of me, you could have at least stated some reason for it or something. No- you're simply voting me so it's not registered that you haven't been voting today.Oh dear gods yes.
Post by: webadict on September 01, 2014, 05:51:51 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - Scripten, TolyK,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T - Urist Imiknorris,
Mysteriousbluepuppet - IronyOwl,
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - Tiruin, Varee,
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
Varee - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar,
Not Voting - TheWetSheep, Jack A T,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 3 hours from this post.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 05:54:56 pm
Nerjin: Does your pardoning work when you state it?
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 05:56:32 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 06:04:53 pm
Of all the information gathered today, you based who you'd pardon on how far that [information] goes? Any foresight applied to the formula?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 06:35:46 pm
So, i guess the removing of Toasty extras life is out of question now? I'm unsure how to feel about this, since as i've said the longer he stays the stronger he gets, and survivors are NOT town.
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 06:37:29 pm
So, i guess the removing of Toasty extras life is out of question now? I'm unsure how to feel about this, since as i've said the longer he stays the stronger he gets, and survivors are NOT town.Either we test the Pardon and it fails (because Pardon!) or we go lynch Toaster--and it works, somehow, by which Nerjin would be under suspect, though given his behavior this game that is doubtful (in my observations).
Though it isn't out of the question in the later days, in my opinion.
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 06:48:37 pm
Mmm, I'll be searching the reason on your pardon on Toaster in the time being but query.
Of all the information gathered today, you based who you'd pardon on how far that [information] goes? Any foresight applied to the formula?
I... Think that you're asking "Why Pardon Toaster"... I pardoned toaster because I think Varee is scum. Toaster is helpful [for now] while Varee is doing nothing but saying he's working, lazy voting, talking about his power (Which has yet to give any benefit whatsoever)... Essentially I think getting Rid of Varee is the best way to proceed. So... It's less that I'm against a Toaster lynch and more that I'm in favor of a Varee lynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 06:52:48 pm
Post by: Varee on September 01, 2014, 06:59:38 pm
I will be readin mass claim tmr then :3
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 07:10:09 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 07:13:58 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 01, 2014, 07:52:13 pm
TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Jack A T- None of you are voting: Why?Because I didn't feel confident enough in my knowledge of the situation to put a vote on somebody, and now it doesn't really matter. Varee's last post seems like mafia giving up rather than town, but voting him would put him at L-1.
TolyK: Does your inspect show Town/Anti-town/Neutral, Town/Mafia/Neutral or something else?
Tiruin:
Varee, by the way.Why?
MPB: Why are you complaining about Toaster being pardoned when you weren't voting for him?
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 07:54:19 pm
Tiruin:Consensus dictates Toaster, but the pardon hit, and the majority are piling up for Varee (though my prime target would be MBP >_> in which Varee is less scummy than him [sure, Varee is...has been very lackluster and passive but.. <_< I've got a feeling on him, which is strange.)Varee, by the way.Why?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 08:01:39 pm
Wet Sheep, because i stillthink Tiruin is the likeliest scum, and Toaster was basically confirmed lynch before the pardon. It was fine.
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 08:08:50 pm
You haven't even done anything to 'reinforce' whatever.
Or...actually, make any case--return answers to my queries, and in general actually communicate with me. :P
It's like you're making up an excuse to action me somehow (which I don't mind, if you want to twist me up).
...
Your sense of what an OMGUS is is faulty though. If in the least, you could do pretty well with more details.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 08:24:13 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 08:26:44 pm
With your closed-minded attitude? Everything I do will just 'reinforce' whatever beliefs you hold there.
Not that you cared to detail it.
MBP: Summarize your beliefs about me.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 08:58:28 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 09:02:34 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 09:03:56 pm
I get how you work with aggression--I've seen it before in a myriad amount of people. The reasons I ask many of the questions up there is for everyone, not just me, to check, because your attitude could be very well easily attributed to someone being scum, rather than a townie. I'm leaning on doubt as the only safetyline here in checking whether you are or are not really malevolent in intent.
SO far you haven't done anything to forward your case on me--just letting your vote lie, mudslinging, and spouting many accusations on a level just a bit less than how aggressive you were before. You didn't reinforce anything but for yourself, as you aren't detailing anything for anyone else to ponder on, and the only thing you're giving your target is...
Well, crap.
You believe I'm scum: Why?
I infer its because of my power? Why?
Or perhaps its my actions? Why so?
You could do with a lot more detailing. Or in fact, why don't you make effort into detailing?
Post by: IronyOwl on September 01, 2014, 09:17:35 pm
Irony, if you don't wanna read and understand, fine by me. Because it shows. Try againThis isn't helpful. Play or don't. Sidestepping everything anyone asks or points out to you to repeat your thesis is useless. It's earned you four detractors and zero supporters. Nobody believes you, because your claims are terrible and unsupported.
Actually, don't. I'll save you the hassle. It is OP for Town, so it's not town. Easy enough to understand?
Do you actually intend to do anything today, tomorrow, or at any point over the course of the game? Because at the moment, you're exactly on par with Varee as far as accomplishments go, but are currently getting a pass for replacing in later.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:19:19 pm
Maybe you should re-read, seriously.
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 09:21:14 pm
You think I'm scum because I've a power. Right.
NQT had an Auto which is now Toasters. I'm scum because...why again?
Because if you're really judging by powers alone, rethink it. I nearly made the same pitfall but reconsidered (looking at Nerjin and the others with powers like such), as detailed in my reeds post 'searchword: reeds'.
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 09:22:46 pm
Therefore your reasons are still awful and won't sway anyone. Point out how Tiruin has been playing [in any situation not regarding you preferably]. Then we might be swayed.
We don't have to re-read because we saw your reasons and know that they aren't good reasons to vote someone.
Please try again.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 01, 2014, 09:25:22 pm
Considering your end is only affecting you, while our end is afflicting, what, six people now, it seems more likely that you're not actually saying anything, wouldn't you say?
See, look at this shit. Three fucking people, MBP, IN A ROW. All of them telling you the exact same thing- "I have read your reasons, but they're terrible and you ignore everything I say about them." That's pretty much a giant glowing neon sign stating THOU HAST FUCKED UP, EXPLAIN THYSELF BETTER.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:29:21 pm
I'm starting to believe this is a sick joke, i refuse to believe people able to use this site have goldfish level memories.
Tiruin
And your reasons are not subjective? THey are, i voted you, so you kneeerked right back, OMGUS
I'll god damn judge you by your power if those powers are scummy by design
Nerjin
You got a better idea ? Ain't seeing you come with anything. Again, i said id inspect Her to prove my claim, but that all depends on toasty good will.
Instead of protecting a fuckign 3rd party, why don't you try to something else than whiteknighting.
IronyOwl
That's mostly a giant '' If i cry enoguh that his reasoning is bad, maybe someone will believe it''
Tought better of you, Irony.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:30:55 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 09:36:33 pm
And my effort into detailling was few pages ago.
And it was awful because all you have is your word against Tiruin's when all is said and done. You think the ability is OP and Wuba would never include it. Everyone else has played enough games to know not to try to outguess Wuba. I designed a game with him once. It was rather complex and had a lot of powerful abilities.
Quote from: The Same
I'm starting to believe this is a sick joke, i refuse to believe people able to use this site have goldfish level memories.
We don't. You're just repeating the same thing over and over. It wasn't convincing the first time so you said it again. it still wasn't convincing. We said as much. You don't seem to catch onto this.
Quote from: The Same
Tiruin
And your reasons are not subjective? THey are, i voted you, so you kneeerked right back, OMGUS
Voting someone because they have a bad case is part of mafia. Thus she didn't OMGUS because she had legitimate complaints with you and your 'case'.
Quote from: The Same
I'll god damn judge you by your power if those powers are scummy by design
And we'll continue to ignore you because you don't seem to get that this doesn't mean anything coming from you because you are not the mod.
Quote from: The Same
Nerjin
You got a better idea ? Ain't seeing you come with anything. Again, i said id inspect Her to prove my claim, but that all depends on toasty good will.
Instead of protecting a fuckign 3rd party, why don't you try to something else than whiteknighting.
I do. Build a case. I've said as such. I've made cases, if that's what you're implying. It does depend on Toasty. You'll have to deal with that while we lynch Varee.
I'm not protecting Toaster to protect Toaster. As I said, I'm doing it to get rid of Varee who I view as scum. Please try to pay attention to the thread.
Quote from: The Same
IronyOwl
That's mostly a giant '' If i cry enoguh that his reasoning is bad, maybe someone will believe it''
Tought better of you, Irony.
Well everyone does believe it because it's true. Your reasoning isn't very good. Please try again.
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 09:37:10 pm
TiruinDamn the deity then, I believe we can't speak more on this matter if you keep your eyes focused and your lips shut.
And your reasons are not subjective? THey are, i voted you, so you kneeerked right back, OMGUS
I'll god damn judge you by your power if those powers are scummy by design
Now let the avalanche of YOU MEANY start.Yeah...you're not worth that kind of logic, in this scenario.
However.
Keep the OMGUS-ing Tiruin, just reinforces my beliefs.Seems like you had doubts before that, given how it 'reinforces' something?
Wet Sheep, because i stillthink Tiruin is the likeliest scum, and Toaster was basically confirmed lynch before the pardon. It was fine.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 01, 2014, 09:41:15 pm
IronyOwlNonononono. This shit is what got you into this mess in the first place. It's also what fucked up Cheeetar, as far as I was concerned.
That's mostly a giant '' If i cry enoguh that his reasoning is bad, maybe someone will believe it''
Tought better of you, Irony.
Address my points. My ACTUAL points. Do not brush things off as covered by your overall thesis. Do not roll everything into one summarized point. Do not address my post as a whole.
Go line by line, and actually exchange information with me. What you have up there is not data. It's a useless grey puree labeled RESPONSE, utterly devoid of nutritional value.
Though that does remind me:
Cheeetar:
Let's assume there's a kill on Night 3. What then? Do we continue to have Toaster block everybody (most assuredly all town actions unless somebody hasn't claimed something) in the hope that it was 'just a one-shot' or something?One kill instead of two? That's progress. Most likely we'd start unblocking people as they were confirmed, or maybe just keep blocking people we didn't trust.
And how exactly would Toaster be able to show that somebody was lying about their role?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
How about the fact that you knowingly protected a 3rd party from being voted, that such 3rd party will be more and more of a liability until the end?
Now that's a fine argument. And your argument vs Varee where?
Quote
Well everyone does believe it because it's true. Your reasoning isn't very good. Please try again.
Man I flubbed my logic 101 class but even i now argument ad populum.
Maybe you should think this through.
Tiruin
Maybe you missed the pages and pages of me saying the same stuff again and again, apparently vainly hoping someone would catch on.
Irony
What points?
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 09:46:44 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:49:31 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 01, 2014, 09:51:37 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 09:54:15 pm
In other news, that day should have ended 2 years ago, no?
Post by: IronyOwl on September 01, 2014, 09:56:53 pm
IronyI'm glad you asked!
What points?
One:
Because as a scum they should be immune by default. If so, they can continue NKilling while inconveniencing town. The combo also falls since they can simply kill NQH/Toaster and get rid of it. Then again, they can let it go,since it impact town and not themselvesFor the second part, did you see the role I linked?
If it's a town ability, then scum is affected by it, and NQH/Toaster can lockdown. Scum only chance lay in lynching NQT/Toaster, which is unlikely, since he can just come out if his head is on the chopping block.
Two:
Do you have an explanation for why that could be perfectly balanced but this couldn't, beyond what you've said above about it not affecting scum in the first place?
Three:
And in the same vein, what about the severe targeting restriction countered by a town auto ability?
Four:
Finally, why would it be alright if scum got to use the combo but not alright if town did?
Five:
Because Toaster is a 3rd party, not town. Shit like that happen.Third parties cause us to give scum 2-3 favorable lynches?
Six:
I don,t really understand what you are talkign about here. I didn't speak about a miller in this game.Yeah you have. You're calling Tiruin scum. Tiruin, who had her Miller ability removed by confirmed-town Persus.
You're saying a Miller is scum.
Seven:
If scum isn't immune,then why have this ability ? You risk failling your NK, and lose the other actions from ally scum. Again, it's a thing of balance. I guess you could have the person launching it be immune, but then he must do the NK.This is circular logic. "This ability would be worthless on scum, therefore it's a scum ability but they're immune to it."
Eight:
I'm going with the most likely function of that panic. Disrupting town to give the scum a chance. early onBased on what? You've ignored every question I've raised about it, from a prior example to feasibility concerns, and are relying on circular logic and Tiruin lying in a hyperspecific way to make your version work.
I don't think you actually think Tiriun's scum. I think you're terrified/enraged at the combo because it's ruining your wincon.
Conveniently chopped up and numbered for ease of reading and replying!
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 10:20:14 pm
2) No, that's the point. Either the scum get affected and it's game breaking, or they don't and it's a fine ability.
3)Can't understand what you are meaning there. Pretty sure the auto oesn't allow redirects unless first ability is random, which i assume there aren't a whole lot.
4)Because if scum can act through, town (or toater) could drop it. Again, as i've said A LOT, if scum got the panic, the key to the combo is either town or 3rd party, wich doesn't make it game breaking.
5)-1 one day to LyLo, and the longer Toasty stay here the more lynch needs to be wasted, and lower the town/scum ratio risk to be.
6)I'm not trusting claim like that with redirect and other power running rampant. It's a BYOR, nobody is confirmed.
7)Meta-logic. It goes a long way.
8)I'm unhappy i won't be able to confirm my suspicions of it. And i doubt said combo will work.
Post by: Scripten on September 01, 2014, 10:24:56 pm
Did I seriously read through ANOTHER three pages of fruitless back-and-forth about the same singular point that the last tunneling incident was about?
So much active lurking and deflection going on. That said, Toaster cannot be lynched. I'm comfortable with Varee at L-1.
Unvote Cheetar
Vote Varee
HoS MBP
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 10:29:34 pm
I swear this town gone full on lazy mode.
Post by: Scripten on September 01, 2014, 10:37:05 pm
If you think I'm going to go at you for another three page romp, you're well mistaken. It's a waste of time as you've shown.
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2014, 10:53:05 pm
Town/Scum/Neutral.
Though I really really don't see how Toaster could be the SK.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 10:55:39 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 01, 2014, 10:56:10 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2014, 10:57:00 pm
Ninja'd.
I also really really don't see how Tiruin could be scum. Only SK, and even then it's a bit strange.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 10:59:37 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 11:03:15 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 01, 2014, 11:12:52 pm
Varee:
Only thing am worry about Toaster is that he might start snowballing as he can get another power each night as long as he keep the block up or i die as I think my auto will go to him if idie right?
Only if someone dies. And I have no idea what ability I'd get; there's no indication that one type is more likely to be gotten than others.
Cheeeetar:
Before somebody hammers Varee- please give him some time to detail his night actions so far (and maybe final reads on people.) I don't see any danger of him evading lynch, so give him some time?
By time, the day should be over already. In any case, he's had plenty of time to go into detail; I don't think he plans to say anything else. Not that I'm advocating a hammer, of course.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 01, 2014, 11:18:46 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 01, 2014, 11:25:39 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 01, 2014, 11:37:45 pm
We are
LEFT BEHIND
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 11:48:28 pm
TiruinNo, I got it plain and frank (sans the expletives, which were uselessly sprinkled everywhere :I).
Maybe you missed the pages and pages of me saying the same stuff again and again, apparently vainly hoping someone would catch on.
I got how you can infer that its a scum power--yes, it makes sense for that kind of preposition, and I thusly replied that I can't defend against such an accusation (because by nature, I really can't).
I was confused at that time as to your intent or thoughts behind it, now its more clearer. (emphasis on the semantic failure :v)
You judge me because you perceive my power is scum-sided.
Meaning > You judge me based on my power.
What I'm trying to nudge you hard, as a player, is that judging solely by that kind of instance is fallacious and does not do well for giving you insight into the game in general. You remember for 3 years? Good! I checked your play history and it really appears such--that you resurfaced after 3 years, however, isn't mentioned.
Webadict is more like a pioneer in the Mafia field in that he destroys most common and traditional conceptions regarding Mafia in his BYORs. They are subjective by nature, and rely not on perception of the role, but have essence in the classic figure of scumhunting: You cannot fully rely on the role, the powers and the abilities therein but focus more on scumhunting.
That's what I've been pressing you to say before. Your brevity did not help there. If I did commit any error, you're not even pressing it. If I had missed it, judging by the question above, you aren't pressing it.
God damn...Wait did you just hammer? o_O
Did I seriously read through ANOTHER three pages of fruitless back-and-forth about the same singular point that the last tunneling incident was about?
So much active lurking and deflection going on. That said, Toaster cannot be lynched. I'm comfortable with Varee at L-1.
Unvote Cheetar
Vote Varee
HoS MBP
*reading up*
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 01, 2014, 11:50:39 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 01, 2014, 11:51:25 pm
Nerjin for protecting a known 3rd party. Rest would depend on how Varee flips. Town i'd check amongst the voters for a mafia bus....Yeah. My assumptions on you are being solidified that your reads or perceptions are...maligned by previous bias.
I check your beliefs regarding survivor Toaster, and you're still keeping it despite what many of us say, in public. It's a traditional belief that does not fully encompass the playstyle of a Survivor--it ignores personal player principle. The human nature aspect of the game, that is. That belief only focuses on the technical aspect.
All teh good peopleare already playign the ngiht gameWut.
We are
LEFT BEHIND
No, Varee's at L-1.Ah, thanks.
I'll not leave this at L-1 though. Any other discussion? Unvote. MBP
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 02, 2014, 12:23:56 am
OMGUS be the name of the game
Post by: Tiruin on September 02, 2014, 12:31:20 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 02, 2014, 12:39:26 am
Quote
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
Did you vote me right after i did? Yes. Is it OMGUS? Yes it is. Keep arguing if you want, I'm done on that point.
Post by: Tiruin on September 02, 2014, 12:44:45 am
I'm not arguing, though. I'm clarifying. :v
Also just for posterity: I'm scum because you see my power as scummy? By itself?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 02, 2014, 05:37:20 am
Why not? The day was technically over by that point.No, Varee's at L-1.Ah, thanks.
I'll not leave this at L-1 though. Any other discussion? Unvote. MBP
Post by: Tiruin on September 02, 2014, 06:17:48 am
Correct the first: Varee can vote ._.
Then...the day just ended?
As in, 10 hours ago!?
Quote
Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 3 hours from this post.)Edit out posts, right?
Post by: TolyK on September 02, 2014, 06:38:28 am
We didn't hammer, so I think it's fine.
Post by: webadict on September 02, 2014, 07:05:50 am
Post by: webadict on September 02, 2014, 07:19:15 am
"Now before this part-"
Of course, you've already figured out that Varee just ruined a good carpet. Unfortunately, no cake chunks could be found amongst the spill. Why you bothered going through it is another thing entirely.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - TolyK,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T - Urist Imiknorris,
Mysteriousbluepuppet - IronyOwl, Tiruin,
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - Varee,
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
Varee - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten,
Not Voting - TheWetSheep, Jack A T,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately -10 hours from this post.)
Varee has been lynched.
Varee was the Bob the Builder Theme Song (town).
It is now Night.
Quote
Varee
Town
Bob the Builder Theme Song
Bob the Builder… You get it.
[REDACTED]
(Night) Can We Fix [target]?: Yes you can! You protect the target, stopping all kills against them.
(1-Shot, Night) No You Can’t [target]: You kill the target. The target is unable to be revived or protected.
Post by: webadict on September 03, 2014, 07:12:22 am
Unfortunately for Toaster, as he jumps off the trampoline, he lands directly on his head, snapping his neck. Luckily, he just snaps it back into place and he's fine again.
Toaster has been killed!
Toaster comes back to life!
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
Not Voting - TheWetSheep, Jack A T, Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten, TolyK, Urist Imiknorris, IronyOwl, Tiruin, Mysteriousbluepuppet,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 86 hours from this post.)
It is now Day.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 03, 2014, 07:17:19 am
TolyK: Did you find any scum, or can you confirm anybody as town?
Post by: TolyK on September 03, 2014, 07:21:24 am
*ahem*
What did everyone do today? I was also able to see what action a target used this day, so watch it.
And... Well, someone killed Toaster (duh) thus this isn't broken :p
I'd like to figure something out before spilling the beans, but I've got a plan as well after that.
Removing the Panic from at least me would have been good, though - though possibly not for you, Toaster.
I am surprised I've lived this long. I must've gotten something wrong.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 03, 2014, 07:25:17 am
So, MBP, would you like to state your NEW AND IMPROVED suspicions in light of that flip you were waiting for?
Toaster: What'd you get from Varee?
Tiruin: Since I don't think you understood what the hell I was talking about when I asked the first time, why did you move your vote off Varee (presumably to avoid someone hammering) when the day was basically over anyway?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 07:50:10 am
As for improved suspicions, i assume people will roleclaim today, so i'll wait for that, Pretty sure we can find 1-2 scum from the votes of the last 3 days.
AND Toasties death means either scum or Sk are immune to panic, which bode well for my theory.
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 07:58:05 am
Tiruin: Since I don't think you understood what the hell I was talking about when I asked the first time, why did you move your vote off Varee (presumably to avoid someone hammering) when the day was basically over anyway?I...err, same reasons as before--however I didn't know day was over at the time. >_<
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 08:03:21 am
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 08:06:26 am
AND Toasties death means either scum or Sk are immune to panic, which bode well for my theory.No Vig in your solution?
PFP
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 08:08:41 am
Post by: TolyK on September 03, 2014, 08:19:56 am
Tiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 08:21:30 am
Tiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
Unlikely for town to have 2 night kills, and Varee had one. MAY happen but don't bet anything on it.TolyK has a kill. Any comment on that.
Oh, and since you're judging on power-abilities and people's alignment, can you give your feedback on all known powers in this game claimed?
Like TolyK's Filler Ability?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 08:27:22 am
Tolyk has a kill? Good for him, if he's town then i'd be surprised we got an actual vig unless it's him. He may simply be scum/SK, i'll see on the claim.
Did you use your kill on Toaster, Tolyk?
Post by: Nerjin on September 03, 2014, 09:03:47 am
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
Based on what exactly? "That" is very vague.
Post by: Silthuri on September 03, 2014, 12:50:11 pm
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
Based on what exactly? "That" is very vague.
I'd like an answer to this too.
Post by: TolyK on September 03, 2014, 01:53:56 pm
I did not kill Toaster, I inspected.
I got Varee's one-shot kill.
What did Toaster get?
What did everyone else try to do?
The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 01:56:30 pm
I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
How did that happen?
Post by: Toaster on September 03, 2014, 02:03:23 pm
I used Gambler's Fallacy to send it to myself... and it turns out that the ability doesn't give me anything. Sucks for me!
Also, screw you whoever killed me. That wasn't nice.
MBP:
Well my ability check failed, so that's not coming into account.
I was going to let you through, but based on your actions late D3 I decided against it.
Unlikely for town to have 2 night kills
Nonsense. It's happened plenty of times before, and this is a big game. Plus, Varee had one that was one-shot; I'd say a one-shot superkill is quite plausible.
TolyK:
I got Varee's one-shot kill.
If you got his kill, why does he still have it?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 03, 2014, 02:05:45 pm
Will try to get in another post later today containing reads.Please provide this post you promised.
I tried to block Toaster.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 03, 2014, 03:44:19 pm
TolyK: Why are you reserving your investigation results? You have the ability to back up what you're saying- why is it that you're again just asking us to trust you at your word?
Toaster: Somebody tried to kill you. Do you think it was more likely it was town, third party, or scum? Are you worried that you might be targeted again tonight, fatally?
Post by: TolyK on September 03, 2014, 04:00:29 pm
Varee said he lost a one-shot kill, and I said that I got it, and Jack said that he actioned to transfer an action from Varee to Tiruin but it ended up with me. Please note that if I had killed Toaster he wouldn't have revived.I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
How did that happen?
TolyK:That I don't know. Probably because it's part of his initial role, while added actions are thrown away (since I recall someone (Varee?) wondering why someone who flipped didn't have an ability).I got Varee's one-shot kill.
If you got his kill, why does he still have it?
Are we go for mass claim time?No mass claim yet, too many people and too little information, imo.
TolyK: Why are you reserving your investigation results? You have the ability to back up what you're saying- why is it that you're again just asking us to trust you at your word?
I'm not asking to trust my word this time - I'm trying to catch a liar. That's why I want to know who did what this night. I already said that I'll reveal it after that (I think I did? Damn midnight).
Post by: Nerjin on September 03, 2014, 04:07:14 pm
As for
Tiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
I see. Well you must have targeted Irony because I didn't get anything.
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 04:32:51 pm
Well I don't really have a night action to take so... Yeah. I just sorta sat around and updated my DnD games.Err, knowing my action, my target won't know they would get anything unless...they'd know ._.
As forTiruin, what did you do this night, given you were immune to yourself?I either targeted Nerjin or IronyOwl, because it was a conditional based on the # of players and I'm unsure if it holds on the current # of players in the cycle (or was it phase? The term for a whole Day) or the current # of players at the current time the action is used.
I see. Well you must have targeted Irony because I didn't get anything.
Oop :xVaree said he lost a one-shot kill, and I said that I got it, and Jack said that he actioned to transfer an action from Varee to Tiruin but it ended up with me. Please note that if I had killed Toaster he wouldn't have revived.I got Varee's one-shot kill.O_o
How did that happen?
I remember now. Yeah. Sorry .-.
I'd FoS you or anything at the moment but given that it's exam time and my brain is x_x, I'll be frank here.Are we go for mass claim time?No mass claim yet, too many people and too little information, imo.
TolyK: Why are you reserving your investigation results? You have the ability to back up what you're saying- why is it that you're again just asking us to trust you at your word?
I'm not asking to trust my word this time - I'm trying to catch a liar. That's why I want to know who did what this night. I already said that I'll reveal it after that (I think I did? Damn midnight).
I am not trying to be Frank. :v
I'm swinging unsure about you as a partial bias on how you see things (and the notes of future promises and ideas of that manner) but there's also a note that catches...my feelings on you in a good way.
Though your tactic here seems a bit...ok less than a bit, inefficient. Anyway.
I am Triskaideckaphobia.
Yeah, seriously. We don't believe unlucky here, in that manner of fear. We'd be more scared of an Aswang--our Asian Vampire or...insulting the spirits of our dead...or disrespecting other people that isn't us than the #13. :P
...Though I do recall some of the international/American hotels in our capital lacking the 13th floor. Huh.
I lack one Auto due to Persus13 (Unlucky)
I have one other Auto I'm not willing to say right now due to conflicting reasons--however if I die, please kill Toaster :v
I have {Nyancat} as my only action--if the # of players > 13; I {do something harmless}. If the # of players = 13; I Inspect. If the # of players < 13; I {do something just as useless but benevolent}.
I had a one-shot, which was detailed and used, referenced here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5607617;topicseen#msg5607617).
N1 I targeted Flabort. So he can pass it on and also to allay any note on scummyscumscum in the least.
N2 I targeted Cheeeeeeetar. Didn't like how the proceedings went and I went with who I felt was best to get Fear'd...due to my lacking activity at the time.
D3 I noticed it was 13 players...my one-shot had 13 players exactly as a requirement.
N3 I poked either Nerjin or IronyOwl...because of the conditional action and understanding of that action. I'll ask.
Will fully full claim later after everyone else :I
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 03, 2014, 05:09:34 pm
The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
What did you claim your role to be? You have an alignment-inspect and an action inspect?
Tiruin: Does your panic ability explicitly say it affects everyone?
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 05:12:25 pm
Tiruin: Does your panic ability explicitly say it affects everyone?Everyone else but me, paraphrased. Yep.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 05:31:56 pm
Ain't happy about the blok, because info is at a premium and it could have put my case for Tiruin to rest or jsut confirm it. Then again, 3rd party.
Also, did you block EVERYONE? Because based on the (claimed) PANIC tiruin claimed, only she could have killed you. Either that or she is lying, or scum got some counters. Either way i,d assume scum will try again tonight.
As for the claim, here goes.
I'm a Owlbear, Half Owl, Half Bear.
Got Nighteyes, to check a random ability from the target
Got Bearhug, which destroy a random ability from a target, kill action excluded.
My Auto is Cavern, meaning that if i don't use one the other 2 abilities, people visiting me with kills get kiled in return
And i got a 1 shot called Night Owl where nothing happen during the night. Because nobody want to anger an Owlbear. Asked Wubbah that doesn't stop redirected or unblockable things.
As for actions, used Nighteyes every night.
N1?: 4mask power is null tell, a death prevention due to cuteness. May explain lack of death that night.
N2?: Toaster, Lawless scavenger
N3?: Action Failed.
Gonna take the time to read during the evening
Post by: Cheeetar on September 03, 2014, 05:54:28 pm
PFP.
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2014, 05:57:07 pm
Why did you pick those people for your action?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 03, 2014, 05:57:38 pm
Puppy (initial):
My auto is Cute. Any player attempting to kill me will fail if they haven't tried to do so before.
My other auto is Dog Years. I get a fabulous prize for surviving to D3. (the prize is a new role)
As a night action I can Play With someone, blocking them.
Dog (granted morning of D3):
My Auto is Circle of Life. Once per Phase I may switch between puppy and dog forms, retaining this ability (and no others).
As a night action I can be someone's Best Friend, taking a bullet for them if they're shot at.
Once, as a night action, I can invoke All Dogs Go To Heaven. I become the Labrador Retriever God for a day and a night, after which I die. This ability is automatically triggered in the event of my death.
N1 4mask blocked Cheeetar, failed.
N2 4mask blocked NQT, and grew up into Dog state.
D3 I reverted from Dog state to Puppy state, ridding myself of Panic.
N3 I blocked Toaster. That may have been why you didn't get an action, BTW. I'm not sure how blocks and autos interact.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 06:02:52 pm
What did you do @N3, puppet?
Why did you pick those people for your action?
Targeted you, as i said.
As for why, 4 mask was a random choice since i joined basically during the night and had'nt read anything. He was 1st on the list.
Toaster was chosen because i played with him long ago, and he's a good player, so it's always good to be wary.
You because reasons.
And i confirm the Puppy dog eyes from Urist
Post by: IronyOwl on September 03, 2014, 06:52:14 pm
TolyK:
What did everyone else try to do?Your actions are starting to strike me as cagey, scummy bullshit. This had better be an amazing power/role.
The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.
Last night I targeted MBP. It failed. Is that sufficient or do you require the precise action for some reason?
Post by: IronyOwl on September 03, 2014, 06:53:04 pm
Post by: Silthuri on September 03, 2014, 08:04:23 pm
Based on the voting and my gut, possibly more.So... you're going by MBP's theory incriminating the majority of the players (excluding himself, of course)? And are you saying you possibly inspected me at one point? If you did, I ask that you share your results before I claim.
What did everyone else try to do?Last night, I twiddled my thumbs. My only night action is a one-shot I've yet to use, meaning I've never taken a night action in this entire game.
Urist:
Silthuri:Will try to get in another post later today containing reads.Please provide this post you promised.
Since you asked nicely, I shall. It's kinda quick and may involve some incorrect information due to piles of homework and two exams next week absorbing my focus.
Cheeetar: D1 actions still seem kinda scummy to me.
MBP: I don't even know about this one. Horrible arguments that make no sense. Has tried to incriminate everyone but himself and his entire case on Tiruin yesterday seemed to focus on "She is scum because I think she is scum because I don't like her power". Leaning not-town.
Nerjin: Nothing really suspicious here. I found it quite suspicious that he tried to pardon a SK-ally at the beginning although I'm having second thoughts because I'm not sure if the SK and the ally would know each other's identities (has this been discussed before? Sorry if I missed it). Town lean.
Tiruin: Her miller was confirmed by a townie who is now dead and even though her power is a bit odd for a town, It's almost confirmed she's not scum. I still think there's a slight possibility she's third party due to her power affecting everyone but herself and someone with an immunity, but that's me being a bit paranoid.
Toaster: Survivor? Seems incredibly powerful and dangerous... so far he seems to be playing to town's wishes though.
TolyK: He's holding supposed inspect results over our heads. It's quite suspicious that he's wanting everyone else to claim before he claims his results. Perhaps he wants us to think he's going to call bullshit on people's claims. I'm not sure I buy it.
Post by: Toaster on September 03, 2014, 08:42:33 pm
Toaster: Somebody tried to kill you. Do you think it was more likely it was town, third party, or scum? Are you worried that you might be targeted again tonight, fatally?
I'm thinking nontown, but I'm reserving judgement on that.
Yes it does worry me, since that'd make me lose. Losing may be fun, but it's not what I want here.
MBP: Yes, I action-failed (not blocked) everyone but myself and TolyK. I didn't have an action, but eh? I also removed it from nobody- not even myself.
UI: You blocked me? Why?
TolyK: If you wait for everyone to claim and then say "Lol I didn't learn anything last night!" then I will see you lynched.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 03, 2014, 08:47:19 pm
And that's obviously with CLAIMED affect everyone Panic. Jsut making that clear.
Post by: Scripten on September 03, 2014, 09:02:29 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 03, 2014, 09:06:36 pm
I have an auto called Split Personality. It makes me unable to use the same action two nights in a row.
I have two actions: Philanthropy makes me use a random beneficial action on the target, from this list:
Protect - Target cannot be killed
Assist - Target is unblockable
Guard - If the target dies, I die instead
Gift - The target receives a 1-shot version of a random one of my eight sub-actions
Misanthropy makes me use a random harmful action on my target, from this list:
Kill - Target dies
Block - Target's action(s) fail
Randomize - Target's action(s) hit a random player
Disable - All the target's role abilities have no effect for a full cycle
I'm not told which action is chosen.
N1(Imp): Philanthropy on Jack AT
N2(Imp): Misanthropy on Varee(This might explain why Toaster(?) didn't receive the house)
N3(Me): Philanthropy on IronyOwl(Failed because of panic)
TolyK:
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
That's based on this post?
Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Why Silthuri? She was on two of the lynches, but so were Nerjin, Scripten, and Jack A T. Cheeetar was on three.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 12:15:23 am
Whatever.
Jack AT is Town and !none'd/failed.
What I was hoping for was someone claiming a randomize, redirect or the like on me so that I could be certain as to my inspection results. At least I can be more sure that who claimed is not scum (in personal reads).
I have a one-shot kill, I can now check role name/ability claims, and I can randomize (that turns into a redirect with Toaster's help.
Jack, as I understand, can move abilities from one person to another, which can be very useful.
Do not claim your roles ffs, there's enough to check anyways.
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2014, 12:20:38 am
Do not claim your roles ffs, there's enough to check anyways.So massclaiming is bad...why?
You didn't say anything towards (...or against) it before when the query was asked :I
Post by: Toaster on September 04, 2014, 12:33:28 am
Post by: IronyOwl on September 04, 2014, 01:18:31 am
No more claiming, dammit. I asked only for N3 actions. -.-So you demanded everyone inform you of their N3 actions on the off chance that unblocked scum who had redirected you might panic and admit to it.
Whatever.
Jack AT is Town and !none'd/failed.
What I was hoping for was someone claiming a randomize, redirect or the like on me so that I could be certain as to my inspection results. At least I can be more sure that who claimed is not scum (in personal reads).
I have a one-shot kill, I can now check role name/ability claims, and I can randomize (that turns into a redirect with Toaster's help.
Jack, as I understand, can move abilities from one person to another, which can be very useful.
Do not claim your roles ffs, there's enough to check anyways.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 01:42:58 am
I do not have anything concrete on Silthuri. I also only have town confirmations... which sucks.
Irony, more or less.
Toaster, no, only one ability. I also didn't claim everything.
Massclaiming is bad because we don't have enough info to catch all scum and the SK, and probably won't after this night either.
Had I found scum that would've been better.
Post by: Jack A T on September 04, 2014, 04:26:34 am
N3 I tried to use my transfer power to make TheWetSheep (see my issues with Imp) hand a power to Tiruin. This failed: panic.
MBP: Your entire attack on Tiruin, as you clarified it (dependent on the combo), seems to be built on an odd set of assumptions. Why are you assuming that scum doesn't just have some sort of unstoppability powers or something else that counters the combo? Why are you assuming that the panic is what's in scum hands, not just a way around the panic? Are there not many ways for Wuba to balance the relevant set of powers, no matter whose hands those powers are in (particularly in a game like this, where powers are rapidly flying from player to player and town powers can quickly become scum powers)?MBP: Please answer this stuff.
TolyK: You continue to leave much unexplained. Would you be so kind as to explain why you decided to inspect me? In addition, what is that analysis of Silthuri? In addition, why have you decided to claim your role at this point, sort of outside of a massclaim?
Jack A T- None of you are voting: Why?Cheeetar: I was busy and confused, as already stated.
TheWetSheep: Why Philanthropy on IronyOwl?
Urist Imiknorris: You've made an interesting move. Interesting in that it gives me a lot of points I can use to learn more about you. Let's look at your post.
Jack A T: As far as I can tell, the only players you've indicated any real suspicion of are either the inactive (NQT/TolyK D2, Varee today) or easy targets (both Cheeetar and flabort D2First, is it correct to say that your use of "inactive" here has little to do with amount of activity, and much to do with the quality of the activity shown? That's the only way I see your statement making sense.
Second, I find the most interesting parts of your assertions here are not what you chose to include, but what you omitted. For instance, this FoS of Nerjin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5574263#msg5574263) alongside my TolyK vote and case. Now, I assume that most players making cases based on records of suspicion would carefully examine, among other things, voting records. You should have found this easily. This leads me to believe that either you made your case without careful examination of the evidence, or you chose to leave this out. Please explain this omission.
Of more importance is your choice to leave my day 1 activities out completely. What led you to believe that inclusion of my Day 1 activities, including a major part of my record of votes and suspicions (particularly the first major Flabort vote), would not be of value to your case?
[impressive how you take both sides simultaneously]Raise your standards. The ability to see issues on multiple "sides" and note them publicly should not be, in itself, all that impressive.
Your framing of this particular issue is interesting, though. What makes you view Cheeetar and Flabort as the two sides of the conflict? What makes them "both," as in all, of the sides? What is it that is scummy about a willingness to critically examine "both sides" of an issue? Finally, why are you stretching a statement of intent to examine Cheeetar for having caught my eye (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572557#msg5572557) while suspecting flabort into a solid taking of "both sides" in the conflict?
The rest you just poke at a little (if at all) and answer questions/discuss the setup. The closest you get to actually hunting is when you accused Imp of doing the same thing you are: providing lots of words with little aggression.Considering that you consider me to have taken aggressive action against six players (seven if you include Nerjin) out of the 15 non-me living players D2 and on, this "little aggression" thing and insinuation that I attack very few players is not exactly as strong as you seem to think it is. This part of your attack is particularly unconvincing when it has already become clear that you either haven't been looking at my posts in much detail or have been omitting aggressive acts you don't want to mention for whatever reason.
But this part does make your goal in your accusation clear. You want to flip part of my attack on Imp around, and put reaching my Imp conclusion about me above reaching an evidence-based conclusion. Why did you prioritize flipping the attack on Imp around over making a good case?
Notably, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the stronger players (except when Cheeetar was looking like an easy lynch due to his quickhammer).And who are you specifically referring to here? And why are you turning a person whose attackers were already strongly dissipating by the time of my first post D2 into someone who looked like an easy lynch at the time? And when did Imp become a weaker player?
So, who do you suspect? What are your reads?I'll do a solid reads post and examination tomorrow, with a focus on the TolyK and MBP matters and the pushes against them. Quick thoughts now:
*MBP is flaily and his case against Tiruin is absolutely abysmal, but I have trouble seeing scum as being that attention-grabby in such a bad way. I lean a bit towards him being town.
*TolyK's strategic uselessness is still uselessness, but his inspect seems like it's probably legitimate. Not sure what to think of him. Need to squeeze more info out of him. Get him to take actual stances and explain opinions.
*TheWetSheep... My case against Imp was weakened a bit by the arrival of an alternate explanation for the poor level of play: whatever real life stuff it is that got her to stop visiting the forum may have been interfering with her play (and certainly stopped the promised content). However, most of the case still applies. TheWetSheep hasn't had the chance to show much of himself yet, and cannot defend Imp, so I'm leaving this case mostly away for a bit.
Why are you only going after easy targets like some sort of opportunistic scum?Cannot answer: invalid premise.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 04:46:51 am
Alright. Less busy.Reasons for inspecting you:
N3 I tried to use my transfer power to make TheWetSheep (see my issues with Imp) hand a power to Tiruin. This failed: panic.
TolyK: You continue to leave much unexplained. Would you be so kind as to explain why you decided to inspect me? In addition, what is that analysis of Silthuri? In addition, why have you decided to claim your role at this point, sort of outside of a massclaim?
- claimed role changer
- person that I find hard to read
Reasons for voting Silthuri:
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
- not doing anything too noticeable (i.e. staying under the radar and above inactivity)
- my gut
As I've already said twice, no concrete evidence.
Reasons for revealing part of role:
- so that people know at least partially what to expect of me
- possibly form a new night-plan
PFP, as always.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 04:50:45 am
Since there was a kill last night, it's entirely possible that there will be another one under lockdown. Also, we've seen that several people already are free of "panicked" in their own way.
Jack, how exactly does your ability-move ability work?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 04, 2014, 06:15:17 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2014, 06:24:57 am
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?Ddn't someone else vouch for Toaster before? As in, I remember TolyK's claim being {Town}{Neutral} or something like that but I also...remember someone else?
PFP exams x-x
Now, about a possible plan.Which part do you affect, Toaster? The chance of success of an action or the chance of the power being removed?
Since there was a kill last night, it's entirely possible that there will be another one under lockdown. Also, we've seen that several people already are free of "panicked" in their own way.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 04, 2014, 06:27:59 am
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?Ddn't someone else vouch for Toaster before? As in, I remember TolyK's claim being {Town}{Neutral} or something like that but I also...remember someone else?
PFP exams x-x
I have no doubt Toaster is third party- I believe 4maskwolf received TolyK's investigative results because of [unknown reasons (?)] and confirmed that. What I am confused about is why Toaster was targeted with the kill- he's the part of this combo with the revive, and it'd be more efficient to just kill TolyK if you could get past panic.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 04, 2014, 06:34:42 am
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 06:40:59 am
As far as I remember, Tiruin, I'm the only one - the vouching was for his graverob ability.
Also, Toaster, why didn't you remove my panicked state? (My guess: You either aren't convinced I'm town or you want to have options in terms of who to win with).
I'm also confused as to why I wasn't killed. Possible explanations:
- Scum kill, and they think Toaster is more of a threat or want to scare him into coordinating less with the town
- SK kill, in which case the lack of mafia kills and the whole locked situation thing hurt their chances of winning
- Scum or SK kill, and I've mistakenly labeled a scum or SK as town (godfather or redirect in case of those who I investigated, or I said they are "most likely town")
- Someone protected me and there was only one kill, or actions targeting me went to Toaster, etc.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 04, 2014, 06:53:44 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 04, 2014, 07:07:09 am
Cheetar, you are wrong. Tiruin fired the panic, and Toaster is makign it stick. Tiruin is not necessary anymore, it's toaster that make the blocks.
Yes, hence why I was talking about TolyK and not Tiruin.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 04, 2014, 09:03:30 am
Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
That's based on this post?Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Why Silthuri? She was on two of the lynches, but so were Nerjin, Scripten, and Jack A T. Cheeetar was on three.
TolyK:The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
What did you claim your role to be? You have an alignment-inspect and an action inspect?
Reasons for voting Silthuri:Nerjin, Scripten, and Cheeetar are checked or partially confirmed?
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
Jack:
Quote
TheWetSheep: Why Philanthropy on IronyOwl?Philanthropy because I had no choice, IronyOwl because I didn't have much of a read on anyone and his play seemed pretty solid. I didn't spend a lot of time making the decision because it was going to fail anyway.
Post by: Silthuri on September 04, 2014, 09:18:35 am
Reasons for voting Silthuri:
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
- not doing anything too noticeable (i.e. staying under the radar and above inactivity)
- my gut
As I've already said twice, no concrete evidence.
Fair enough. It's just that the way you said it made it seem like you'd inspected me. So where was Nerjin partially confirmed? Is this because of his pardon power? Or is it just that I'm the one the farthest away from any sort of confirmation?
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 09:57:03 am
TolyK: Answer my questions.As if I'm not answering them?
Quote
Yes, that post.Based on that... Silthuri for now, though not necessary my final vote.
That's based on this post?Discussion piece, people voting each lynchee for the first 3 day. I'm not posting Flabort vote-ato, and 1st day was pre-empted.
Day 1 - Jack A T, TolyK,Shakerag, Cheeetar,
Day 2 - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Jack A T, Imp, Silthuri, 4maskwolf,notquitethere,
Day 3 - Toaster, Silthuri, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Scripten
Slashed are dead, probably missed 1-2 of those there due to name changes, feel free to modify
Why Silthuri? She was on two of the lynches, but so were Nerjin, Scripten, and Jack A T. Cheeetar was on three.
I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.
But really.
It was answered already (see your own quote).
TolyK:[/quote]The sooner everyone claims the sooner I can say who I inspected.Is it because you need to know what people are to fabricate an inspect result?
What did you claim your role to be? You have an alignment-inspect and an action inspect?
I had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.
Quote
No, I am wrong in that count then.Reasons for voting Silthuri:Nerjin, Scripten, and Cheeetar are checked or partially confirmed?
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
Still PFP.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 10:00:20 am
That was intentional, to see if you'd jump to claim something about an investigation-changing action or whatnot.Reasons for voting Silthuri:
- sitting on the last two mislynches (others who did this are either checked or otherwise at least partially confirmed)
- not doing anything too noticeable (i.e. staying under the radar and above inactivity)
- my gut
As I've already said twice, no concrete evidence.
Fair enough. It's just that the way you said it made it seem like you'd inspected me. So where was Nerjin partially confirmed? Is this because of his pardon power? Or is it just that I'm the one the farthest away from any sort of confirmation?
Yes, Nerjin is less likely to be scum for that reason.
The vote was also a reaction-testing vote. I still don't know what to make out of it, though, and that part was more or less an afterthought.
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2014, 12:41:47 pm
But for now I'm going to say Cheetar.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 04, 2014, 02:55:09 pm
It may be an unblockable neutral as well. Just because they are aligned against what looks to be a survivor role doesn't mean they are aligned against us.
If they are not explicitely Town, then they are not to be trusted. Again, nothing prevents them to betray town if it's not in their wincon, and they should do whats best for themselves. Altruism is not something that happens in Mafia
As for you Jack
Giving a complete such a power to a townie while giving Scum a way to bypass is kind of a sucking gift. ''you can sue this but it'll totally suck for everyone but scum'' kind. It's ratehr hard for me to put it in word, it's like a Kaizo trap.
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2014, 03:07:10 pm
It wasn’t a convincing argument then! It’s not a convincing argument now. DO SOMETHING ELSE! Your moronic strategy of waiting for everyone to see your brilliance obviously isn’t working. Maybe because YOUR CASE SUCKS! BUILD A NEW GOD DAMN CASE!
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 04, 2014, 03:08:42 pm
Calm down.
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2014, 03:11:06 pm
I am tired of you wasting our time! ADD SOMETHING RELEVANT! READS! GOD DAMN VOTE ANALYSIS! I DON'T CARE JUST. DO. SOMETHING!
Post by: IronyOwl on September 04, 2014, 04:21:24 pm
Irony, more or less.Why?
Cheeetar:
Here's a strange thought: TolyK has claimed investigator- without his investigative skills, Toaster locking down the whole town is useless. Why was Toaster targeted with the kill and not TolyK?It's generally unwise to attempt to read much into nightkills. They're very complex affairs utilizing variables we're unaware of, and therefore difficult to figure out.
That said, the obvious answer is that they're less concerned about TolyK hitting them than they are about Toaster suppressing them. Less obvious answers include pretty much anything.
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 04:49:02 pm
If you're right, you get a massive "I told you so!" right.
Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 04, 2014, 04:58:32 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 04, 2014, 05:47:03 pm
Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
Tell me, why should we leave you unblocked tonight? You're nowhere near confirmed, you were one of three people unblocked the night somebody murdered Toaster, one of which was Toaster while the other's a Miller, and aside from Toaster you've got no inspect information you couldn't have guessed. Add to that you've been shifty and misleading in general, and I'm forced to really wonder how wise it is to leave you running around.
MBP:
I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.If you knew it all along but nobody believed you, that generally means you were either complete crap at communicating this information, or your information was bad and so you were right on pure luck. Either way, it's not generally something to be proud of.
Either way, you should really be scumhunting right now. Do you have any suspects at all? Any reads? Any lines of pursuit? Any idea what you'd do if Tiruin and Toaster suddenly keeled over?
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2014, 05:56:45 pm
I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.While you may have merit in playing WEB's games in the last 3 years; your experience with it...comes from about 3 years ago.
Many things have changed--philosophy, thinking and many other 'common' ideas that I bet are swimming in your head there.
Do you find it efficient for yourself to change your ideas in the situation currently? Like, be more open-minded?
Or don't you see any merit in us telling and commenting on what your case is?
You seem to not believe in Player Principle, huh.It may be an unblockable neutral as well. Just because they are aligned against what looks to be a survivor role doesn't mean they are aligned against us.
If they are not explicitely Town, then they are not to be trusted. Again, nothing prevents them to betray town if it's not in their wincon, and they should do whats best for themselves. Altruism is not something that happens in Mafia
As for you Jack
Giving a complete such a power to a townie while giving Scum a way to bypass is kind of a sucking gift. ''you can sue this but it'll totally suck for everyone but scum'' kind. It's ratehr hard for me to put it in word, it's like a Kaizo trap.
Tell me, do you think people are chained by their alignment or roles or do they still have a choice in doing what they may do with their alignment?
Like an SK 'working with the town' in aiming to kill scum, with the underlying idea of Vigilante (though that is not the SK's intent). Does that scenario seem even possible for you?
What is your basis for 'no altruism in Mafia'? Is there anything recently on this board that reinforces that?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 04, 2014, 06:11:01 pm
Tiruin depends on the flip. Again, i've got a huge gut feeling she's scum, or anything actively detrimental. If she ends up town well, thats gonna be a major mistake. Still sure of myself tho, we'll see eventually.
Nerjin somehow blew a fuse starting today, dunno why. I've got a pang that he wants to look as usefull as possible. Furthermore, he did protect confirmed 3rd party, (he could be scum with some really weird shit happening, but that's not likely). Toaster dying and rev-ing
As for more, I posted the votes for the lynches, and i suspect at least 1 people there is scum. Still unsure, frankly. In any case, I'm a bit pressed for time ( trying to get a new job right now, and college started), but i'll try writing something comprehensive when able.Extend just in case i'm gone more than 2 days.
Tiruin
My case as been explained like 6 times already. Understand it or don't believe it or don't, at this point i won't be aresed for a 7th iteration of the same arguments.
As for Player principle, whatever that means, i do believe that you should play your role. If i'm a Townie cop and i reveal the doc's and other good roles from town, you can bet the other townies game will be fucked. If i'm Mafia and i give the other scum name, i'm ruinign everyone's game.
It may not be as blatant, but when you play, but SK is not a town ally. Sure he can help lynch scum, but it's becasue they are also hunting for him, not to help town. Hell, the best situation for him is to go down to 1 scum then just double murder his way to the end.
Nothing recently i know off, since i've been gone for years. But nothing new came about that i know of that makes it okay to not play your role. So yeah, no altruism.
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2014, 06:14:00 pm
What was your read on those two, given that you judge mainly by powers.
[...]So yeah, no altruism.You should look in the recent BYOR games (or ToonyMan's Love-Themed Mafia)...there are lots of cases where the principles of a player [also altruism] came before their role (ever heard of an SK not even using his kill? That happened while you were gone, and the SK still won :P).
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2014, 06:15:08 pm
I'd still like an answer here for the orange part :3I CANNOT wait for that I told you so. It makes me giddy in all the right places.While you may have merit in playing WEB's games in the last 3 years; your experience with it...comes from about 3 years ago.
Many things have changed--philosophy, thinking and many other 'common' ideas that I bet are swimming in your head there.
Do you find it efficient for yourself to change your ideas in the situation currently? Like, be more open-minded?
Or don't you see any merit in us telling and commenting on what your case is?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 04, 2014, 06:17:14 pm
TolyK: Thank you for confirming Jack A T as town. Why didn't you wait until everybody had claimed their night actions before revealing your brilliant plan? Neither Jack A T or Scripten had said anything about what they did that night.
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Post by: TolyK on September 04, 2014, 11:26:34 pm
TolyK:No, I didn't think that was problematic. My reasoning?Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
- Technically, all people except me, Toaster and Tiruin should've been blocked, so unblocked people not in the list who didn't claim would look instantly scummy on the off chance that I saw where they went last night.
- I specifically asked people what they did/tried to do last night (specifically, who they targeted).
I did not ask for any more than that - individual role claims, however partial, are not what I wanted.
Quote
Tell me, why should we leave you unblocked tonight? You're nowhere near confirmed, you were one of three people unblocked the night somebody murdered Toaster, one of which was Toaster while the other's a Miller, and aside from Toaster you've got no inspect information you couldn't have guessed. Add to that you've been shifty and misleading in general, and I'm forced to really wonder how wise it is to leave you running around.- Actually, others claimed to have been able to action this night that were not unblocked... At least two, if I remember.
- I have a one-shot kill, which was confirmed by Varee before his death, which bypasses revives.
Actually, lynching me would confirm a lot, but if you plan to do that definitely (i.e. everyone agrees) then I'll spill all the beans.
Post by: Jack A T on September 04, 2014, 11:46:08 pm
As for you JackMBP: Alright. Is a read based on action powers seemingly not fitting alignment really a good read in a game where the theme is power shifting? In a game where powers are moving from player to player through multiple mechanisms?
Giving a complete such a power to a townie while giving Scum a way to bypass is kind of a sucking gift. ''you can sue this but it'll totally suck for everyone but scum'' kind. It's ratehr hard for me to put it in word, it's like a Kaizo trap.
TheWetSheep: In addition to my issues with your predecessor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178), I have issues with your play. Specifically, your TolyK vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5631638#msg5631638) Even for a newcomer to a very long game, this is light on content. There isn't a case, and the questions consist of a rhetorical question and a clarification request. Your next few questions to TolyK are a bit better, but you're barely there on him. Considering you've only really looked at TolyK today, there's an issue here.
What is your case on TolyK?
Jack, how exactly does your ability-move ability work?TolyK: I target two players. First target has to choose a power to lose, but doesn't know where it is going. Second target gets the selected power, but doesn't know where it came from.
Post by: Tiruin on September 05, 2014, 12:17:04 am
But you didn't talk about your stance regarding a massclaim :ITolyK:No, I didn't think that was problematic. My reasoning?Irony, to get as much info out of the night game as possible. Also to keep people who are continuously lying (typically the bad guys) on their toes.And you don't feel screaming EVERYONE TELL ME WHAT YOU DID RIGHT NOW off a sliver-thin chance that ended up yielding nothing was in any way problematic?
- Technically, all people except me, Toaster and Tiruin should've been blocked, so unblocked people not in the list who didn't claim would look instantly scummy on the off chance that I saw where they went last night.
- I specifically asked people what they did/tried to do last night (specifically, who they targeted).
I did not ask for any more than that - individual role claims, however partial, are not what I wanted.
...In my memory.
...
You didn't talk about your stance regarding a massclaim in my memory. :I [We were talking about that as a real possibility come D4]
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 01:13:09 am
Tiruin, I think I did, but it was a wait-and-see one. Anyways, I asked only about N3.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 05, 2014, 03:00:47 am
TolyK: Thank you for confirming Jack A T as town. Why didn't you wait until everybody had claimed their night actions before revealing your brilliant plan? Neither Jack A T or Scripten had said anything about what they did that night.
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 03:29:29 am
Post by: Toaster on September 05, 2014, 07:46:37 am
Web: Do roleflips show any alterations? If a player lost a power then died, would that power be visible in their roleflip?
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 07:50:53 am
Post by: Toaster on September 05, 2014, 07:52:03 am
Cheetar, you are wrong. Tiruin fired the panic, and Toaster is makign it stick. Tiruin is not necessary anymore, it's toaster that make the blocks.
I am the man who arranges the blocks.
Tiruin:
Now, about a possible plan.Which part do you affect, Toaster? The chance of success of an action or the chance of the power being removed?
Since there was a kill last night, it's entirely possible that there will be another one under lockdown. Also, we've seen that several people already are free of "panicked" in their own way.
Either one I want, or both in this case.
Scripten:
I actually haven't been able to do much of anything at night. I'm basically a town roleblocker/primer. If I block a person twice, they're primed, and I have a one-shot that kills everyone primed when I set it off. I don't think I have anyone primed, however, since I've been blocked on a number of occasions.
A slowcooker town arsonist?
Post by: webadict on September 05, 2014, 08:02:06 am
I smell a rat.No. Roleflips flip as the basic form for the role the player has.
Web: Do roleflips show any alterations? If a player lost a power then died, would that power be visible in their roleflip?
Post by: Toaster on September 05, 2014, 08:02:37 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 05, 2014, 09:05:48 am
Nerjin somehow blew a fuse starting today, dunno why. I've got a pang that he wants to look as usefull as possible. Furthermore, he did protect confirmed 3rd party, (he could be scum with some really weird shit happening, but that's not likely). Toaster dying and rev-ing
I swear I want to beat you to death with a god damned golf trophy. Do you not pay attention to other people's posts? I explained why I did it. I felt Varee was scum and that Toaster was safer to keep around. As for why I'm blowing up it's because you're a god damned moron who doesn't listen when other people are talking. You categorize people in two groups: "Listened to my stupid bull shit" and "Didn't listen to it so they're wrong."
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 05, 2014, 10:19:56 am
Unvote Jack due to TolyK's inspect. I'll respond to your post when I have time tomorrow.
Toaster: I blocked you because you're a known third party in a game with an SK. Your playstyle this game is also somewhat reminiscent of my own manifold experiences as an SK in web's games.
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 10:46:46 am
A slowcooker town arsonist?
Ja. Basically that. It's the main reason I find MBP's argument completely irrelevant. (Inb4 Tiruin/Scripten scumteam accusation from MBP.) If my power is town (it is), then I see no reason why the mixture MBP is so worried about is a problem.
I'm trying to figure out if he's scum or poorly played town.
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 11:08:51 am
Just sayin'.
Also, if it turns out that most of your targets were my targets, well...
Just sayin'.
But given action cops, this could be a valid nerf to those (i.e. as a miller, but stronger).
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 05, 2014, 11:22:00 am
I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
Quote
I had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
Quote
No, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
Jack:
TheWetSheep: In addition to my issues with your predecessor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178), I have issues with your play. Specifically, your TolyK vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5631638#msg5631638) Even for a newcomer to a very long game, this is light on content. There isn't a case, and the questions consist of a rhetorical question and a clarification request. Your next few questions to TolyK are a bit better, but you're barely there on him. Considering you've only really looked at TolyK today, there's an issue here.I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?
Quote
What is your case on TolyK?1. Asking for people's actions before claiming, which he would need to do if he was scum fakeclaiming.
2. A lazy, passive vote on Silthuri based partly on mistaken grounds that he doesn't remove even after the mistake is pointed out.
3. OMGUS on me after I point it out
Scripten: You don't think anybody's primed? Shouldn't you know?
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 11:35:28 am
TolyK:In italics.I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
I agree that I'm not pressuring. It's currently not my priority, as I would rather do concrete things instead of those based on gut.QuoteI had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
I get the alignment. Last night I also could see who the person targeted (for free). Now, instead, I can see what action or role name the person has.QuoteNo, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
It was more or less an afterthought. And yes, I more or less did, except I picked a person I didn't know anything about (more or less), looked at the activity and log of that person, try to remember something, and then more or less realize that I indeed know nothing about the l said person, and that is more or less a reason to believe they're staying in the "sweet spot" between active and passive.
It's exactly why I'm not pressing the case - it totally is "not very good at all" due to there being only one point and a gut feeling.
More or less.
Also, Tiruin:
Quote
3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 12:09:18 pm
Scripten: You don't think anybody's primed? Shouldn't you know?
They need to be hit twice to be primed. Otherwise, they are merely blocked. Web responds only with whether or not one or more of my actions have failed. I've gotten this every night so far, but I can target multiple people with a block.
Post by: Toaster on September 05, 2014, 12:13:50 pm
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 12:17:43 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 05, 2014, 12:36:47 pm
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 12:45:39 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 01:06:30 pm
Town mass killing role? Hmmmmm.
Post by: Tiruin on September 05, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
Nerjin, MBP is stubborn...Let it go for this game :SNerjin somehow blew a fuse starting today, dunno why. I've got a pang that he wants to look as usefull as possible. Furthermore, he did protect confirmed 3rd party, (he could be scum with some really weird shit happening, but that's not likely). Toaster dying and rev-ing
I swear I want to beat you to death with a god damned golf trophy. Do you not pay attention to other people's posts? I explained why I did it. I felt Varee was scum and that Toaster was safer to keep around. As for why I'm blowing up it's because you're a god damned moron who doesn't listen when other people are talking. You categorize people in two groups: "Listened to my stupid bull shit" and "Didn't listen to it so they're wrong."
He's the kind of person who won't think until he sees it.
And who somehow misses the reasons which are explicit and apparent in nature -_-
MBP: STILL WAITING ON YOUR READ ON PEOPLE'S CLAIMED ABILITIES.
Like Scripten's Arsonist-like role for one >_> Or TOlyK's inspection, for another.
Or Nerjin's Pardon ability (and why you linked him as scum with me).
All the things you're missing...it is phenomenal.
Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
Post by: Tiruin on September 05, 2014, 06:27:45 pm
My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Post by: Scripten on September 05, 2014, 08:26:53 pm
My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 05, 2014, 08:59:19 pm
MysteriousBluePuppet: I'd like a list of your three top suspects for being scum. I would also like at least two reasons each person for why you suspect them.
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 11:16:06 pm
*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
Wuba, is an SK or mafioso able to lose their ability to kill someone? I.e. by it being stolen, by it being taken out by another ability (such as the one Tiruin claimed, Filler Ability).
We could effectively have ~1.7 lynches per day with such a setup.
Post by: Tiruin on September 05, 2014, 11:36:07 pm
...?*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
This is referring to when, and to what in particular?
You lost it wherenow?TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
We could effectively have ~1.7 lynches per day with such a setup.@_@
Let's not go that far with the numbers.
Oh yes, let's kill half a person now and then kill the other third later on...
Post by: Tiruin on September 05, 2014, 11:38:56 pm
So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
Post by: TolyK on September 05, 2014, 11:56:22 pm
To you pointing out my incorrect use of the term in a recent game. ;)...?*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
This is referring to when, and to what in particular?
Quote from: Tiruin
Numbers!You lost it wherenow?TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.We could effectively have ~1.7 lynches per day with such a setup.@_@
Let's not go that far with the numbers.
['sup]Oh yes, let's kill half a person now and then kill the other third later on...[/'sup]
I don't have an alignment inspect but gained a role name/ability investigation.
And nearly, yeah. If Wuba answers it's, then we can technically take people's abilities, esp. if they're kills, with an action-cop-and-steal combo, or just use the claim list. Whoever doesn't give away the right power gets lynched the next day.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 06, 2014, 12:00:51 am
Post by: Scripten on September 06, 2014, 12:43:36 am
So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
For right now? I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of Cheetar and MBP, but those are merely gut feelings base don playstyle. I was pretty damn convinced Flabort was scum, and Varee was... well, you know how he plays. I had suspected P13, but, as you saw, he was NK'd, so my ability didn't really do anything. My picklist hasn't been very good, I'll be honest. I think I targeted Toaster once and he's 3rd party, but now I don't think I CAN target him. Or I was blocked.
And yeah, I had abilities fail every night, but I do not know which. My night game needs some work, I think. I feel like I'm falling behind in this game and I'm not sure where to turn my suspicions.
Post by: TolyK on September 06, 2014, 01:41:54 am
Nerjin: Can you pardon yourself?I think he said no, when asked D2.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 06, 2014, 01:56:25 am
I assure you that I will not use this ability unless I find it absolutely necessary. If the town wishes it, I can prevent all lynches [though I’d prefer not to] and if town wishes I can simply not issue pardons. I leave it up to town to decide. I consider this ability no longer mine. But towns.
Nerjin, why the change of heart over pardoning? Surely saving Toaster wasn't 'the towns wish', being as it was purely your idea?
Post by: webadict on September 06, 2014, 08:28:38 am
Wuba, is an SK or mafioso able to lose their ability to kill someone? I.e. by it being stolen, by it being taken out by another ability (such as the one Tiruin claimed, Filler Ability).Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Side Note: Going to be gone most of the weekend. So, I'll update as much as I do on normal weekends.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar - Nerjin,
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Cheeetar,
Nerjin -
Scripten - Tiruin,
Silthuri - TolyK,
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster -
TolyK - TheWetSheep, IronyOwl,
Urist Imiknorris -
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Urist Imiknorris,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Monday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 56 hours from this post.)
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2014, 11:52:55 am
@Cheetar
With just "Pardon" I cannot target myself. I do, however, have an ability that lets me use my abilities on myself. It has a weird time thing that I'm not allowed to go into detail on though.
As for why I Pardoned it was because town was about half and half on the matter. As President I must sometimes make tough decisions. I felt Varee was more of a threat to town than Toaster.
Post by: TolyK on September 06, 2014, 12:19:43 pm
Hmm.
That means that an SK-kill could be stolen away, but not the mafia one but rather supporting abilities.
...
Jack, could you steal an ability from me and give it to someone scummy, potentially?
Post by: TolyK on September 06, 2014, 12:21:25 pm
I meant to say Tiruin, and the Filler Ability.
Then Toaster could make the target lose more abilities.
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2014, 12:22:34 pm
I can't steal abilities even if I wanted to :v
You're better off re...wording and quoting. I got lost there and thought you're replacing Jack > Me.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 06, 2014, 12:27:44 pm
Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Would it be possible to remove the mafia kill from play completely with the use of an ability (without killing the mafia members)?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 06, 2014, 12:46:48 pm
Cheeetar: You've been rather involved with Nerjin's pardon ever since he tried to pardon Shakerag. Indeed, your first action D2 was to vote him over it, indicating you felt it more important than flabort's multivoting shenanigans and set-up attempt. What is your aim in such interest?
Scripten: Why did you block who you did?
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2014, 01:29:06 pm
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.I remember vaguely that you played an arsonist role before...
...
Awkwardly, I've to ask 'were you town' then? ._.
Post by: TolyK on September 06, 2014, 01:59:36 pm
TolyK: Why would you mistake the owner of the Filler Ability as yourself?Because I was the initial owner.
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.
I haven't heard of one, but a town poisoner is close.
...
Wait. I've been in that role, haven't I? Lovers with Toaster and eventually backstabbing town, but I played to the town wincon for most of the game. There I held people hostage, more or less. That could be a valid tactic for an arsonist, I'd imagine.
Post by: Scripten on September 06, 2014, 02:18:21 pm
Scripten: Why did you block who you did?
Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.
For nights 1 and 2, I tried to choose people who looked fairly scummy or anti-town. Flabort and Toaster fit the bill, and I was suspicious enough of P13 to aim at him. Last night, I didn't think my ability would work at all (I was told that one or both of my primes failed, so I'm fairly certain it didn't work.) so I chose a player that I have a null read on atm.
I'm getting the feeling that town arsonists are not particularly useful, but I am trying my best. If I do end up in a situation where it's just me and all the other players are primed, using my one-shot would win us the game, but I'm not banking on that. Too many counters.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 06, 2014, 02:39:42 pm
That was BYOR9, where I was the SK and you were my ally.Anyone: Has there ever been a town arsonist before? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around it. The long-term planning required for an arsonist to be effective seems to be directly contradictory to the adaptability required by a townie.I remember vaguely that you played an arsonist role before...
...
Awkwardly, I've to ask 'were you town' then? ._.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 06, 2014, 03:42:27 pm
Urist Imiknorris: You've made an interesting move. Interesting in that it gives me a lot of points I can use to learn more about you. Let's look at your post.On the first point, you are correct. Lots of talk, little actual hunting.Jack A T: As far as I can tell, the only players you've indicated any real suspicion of are either the inactive (NQT/TolyK D2, Varee today) or easy targets (both Cheeetar and flabort D2First, is it correct to say that your use of "inactive" here has little to do with amount of activity, and much to do with the quality of the activity shown? That's the only way I see your statement making sense.
Second, I find the most interesting parts of your assertions here are not what you chose to include, but what you omitted. For instance, this FoS of Nerjin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5574263#msg5574263) alongside my TolyK vote and case. Now, I assume that most players making cases based on records of suspicion would carefully examine, among other things, voting records. You should have found this easily. This leads me to believe that either you made your case without careful examination of the evidence, or you chose to leave this out. Please explain this omission.
Of more importance is your choice to leave my day 1 activities out completely. What led you to believe that inclusion of my Day 1 activities, including a major part of my record of votes and suspicions (particularly the first major Flabort vote), would not be of value to your case?
On the second, I have had substantially less time than I wished, and have had to rush my readings of the thread. Additionally, as far as I can see, the FoS of Nerjin didn't actually go anywhere, and was dropped in your next post.
Quote
I was reading your FoSes in that post as actual FoSes instead of merely things that caught your eye.[impressive how you take both sides simultaneously]Raise your standards. The ability to see issues on multiple "sides" and note them publicly should not be, in itself, all that impressive.
Your framing of this particular issue is interesting, though. What makes you view Cheeetar and Flabort as the two sides of the conflict? What makes them "both," as in all, of the sides? What is it that is scummy about a willingness to critically examine "both sides" of an issue? Finally, why are you stretching a statement of intent to examine Cheeetar for having caught my eye (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5572557#msg5572557) while suspecting flabort into a solid taking of "both sides" in the conflict?
Quote
It hardly counts as an attack when you back down almost immediately, as you've done a rather large portion of the time.The rest you just poke at a little (if at all) and answer questions/discuss the setup. The closest you get to actually hunting is when you accused Imp of doing the same thing you are: providing lots of words with little aggression.Considering that you consider me to have taken aggressive action against six players (seven if you include Nerjin) out of the 15 non-me living players D2 and on, this "little aggression" thing and insinuation that I attack very few players is not exactly as strong as you seem to think it is. This part of your attack is particularly unconvincing when it has already become clear that you either haven't been looking at my posts in much detail or have been omitting aggressive acts you don't want to mention for whatever reason.
Quote
But this part does make your goal in your accusation clear. You want to flip part of my attack on Imp around, and put reaching my Imp conclusion about me above reaching an evidence-based conclusion. Why did you prioritize flipping the attack on Imp around over making a good case?False.
Quote
a) I'm specifically referring to Irony and Toaster, whom you've had very little interaction with. Toaster is somewhat understandable after his third-party reveal, but what is your read on Irony, exactly?Notably, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the stronger players (except when Cheeetar was looking like an easy lynch due to his quickhammer).And who are you specifically referring to here? And why are you turning a person whose attackers were already strongly dissipating by the time of my first post D2 into someone who looked like an easy lynch at the time? And when did Imp become a weaker player?
b) I thought your first post D2 was earler than it was.
c) By weaker players, I'm referring to the players who were either fairly new or who I've played with in the past and thought could do a lot better. Keep in mind that I left the forum for some time, and that list could use some updating.
In any case, I look forward to your promised evaluation.
Scripten: What I'm gathering of your claimed actions is:
N1 blocked Toaster and flabort
N2 blocked Persus
N3 blocked Jack
If you can target multiple people, why did you only do so N1?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 06, 2014, 10:20:49 pm
Cheeetar: You've been rather involved with Nerjin's pardon ever since he tried to pardon Shakerag. Indeed, your first action D2 was to vote him over it, indicating you felt it more important than flabort's multivoting shenanigans and set-up attempt. What is your aim in such interest?
I viewed trying to save the sk ally as more suspicious than Flabort's seemingly self serving actions, although I viewed both as highly suspect. I was waiting on more explanation from Flabort, which didn't work out for him - his reasons were no more noble than the worst assumption I could've made.
Nerjin's pardon is a very public ability (he has to post in this thread to use it, even.) It's a thing that is easy to discuss given how public it is, and important to know about- similarly, Tiruin's panic.
Post by: Scripten on September 06, 2014, 10:24:45 pm
Scripten: What I'm gathering of your claimed actions is:
N1 blocked Toaster and flabort
N2 blocked Persus
N3 blocked Jack
If you can target multiple people, why did you only do so N1?
Two blocks equal a prime. I can block the same person twice in one night. Currently, I do not believe anyone is primed.
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2014, 10:28:25 pm
He said Why.Scripten: What I'm gathering of your claimed actions is:
N1 blocked Toaster and flabort
N2 blocked Persus
N3 blocked Jack
If you can target multiple people, why did you only do so N1?
Two blocks equal a prime. I can block the same person twice in one night. Currently, I do not believe anyone is primed.
That doesn't answer Why (or What or How or...)
You don't think you can target him? You don't know which roleblock failed? Do you specifically know which one failed as to whom?So...may I ask your list of suspects? How effective was your picklist? Did any of such abilities fail early on and was it specific?My blocks are limited to two per night. I can only, at most, prime one person per night. So far, I don't believe anyone is primed.So...you claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635999#msg5635999) without stating who you targeted, for some reason?
Scripten. Poke at thee. :I Why the incompleteness?
Honestly? Because I accidentally lost my forum messages. For the past two nights, I blocked Jack A T and Persus13. In the first night, IIRC, I blocked Toaster and Flabort. I'm pretty sure most of my attempts have failed. (Obviously, Persus13 failed because he was night killed. Prior to that, I'd been slightly suspicious of him.)
For right now? I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of Cheetar and MBP, but those are merely gut feelings base don playstyle. I was pretty damn convinced Flabort was scum, and Varee was... well, you know how he plays. I had suspected P13, but, as you saw, he was NK'd, so my ability didn't really do anything. My picklist hasn't been very good, I'll be honest. I think I targeted Toaster once and he's 3rd party, but now I don't think I CAN target him. Or I was blocked.
And yeah, I had abilities fail every night, but I do not know which. My night game needs some work, I think. I feel like I'm falling behind in this game and I'm not sure where to turn my suspicions.
Post by: Scripten on September 06, 2014, 11:36:20 pm
He said Why.
That doesn't answer Why (or What or How or...)
Whenever I targeted only one person in the night, it was to prime them. P13 is already dead, so that obviously failed. My ability failed last night as well. I do not know if both blocks were stopped, or only one. Probably both.
You don't think you can target him? You don't know which roleblock failed? Do you specifically know which one failed as to whom?
I don't think I can target Toaster any more. He's got a lot of powers. And no, I don't know which roleblocks failed. I only know if one or more of them have failed in the night. So far, I have been told that one or more of my abilities failed in the night every night so far. That's all the information I have.
Post by: Nerjin on September 07, 2014, 12:15:16 am
Nerjin: How was Varee 'more of a threat' to town? What specific fears did you have of him- more so than of a constantly reviving third party who can block every action?
I viewed him as Scum. Toaster was confirmed third party. I've explained all of this before. I'm pretty sure you commented on it.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 07, 2014, 01:23:00 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 07, 2014, 08:50:08 am
Someone who could ally with scum but could also ally with town is 0.
Town is 1.
I found it basic enough. And I wasn't going against towns wishes. It was an even split.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 07, 2014, 07:09:15 pm
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
Toaster, re this quote: Do you plan on continuing to try to lockdown everyone, or are you going to remove the panic tonight?
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 07, 2014, 07:29:16 pm
If the only case you can make is a bad one, either don't make it at all or put some pressure on the person and try to make them crack.TolyK:In italics.I still stand that Silthuri has been trying to stay under the radar and above the rocky ground.And this is the most suspicious thing you've seen so far? You're not even pressuring her - that vote could hardly be any more passive.
I agree that I'm not pressuring. It's currently not my priority, as I would rather do concrete things instead of those based on gut.QuoteI had an alignment investigation, now I have a role name/ability investigation. The action inspect was a bonus for the last-time use.What do you mean, last time use? Explain, clearly, what results you get from an inspect, and why it changed.
I get the alignment. Last night I also could see who the person targeted (for free). Now, instead, I can see what action or role name the person has.QuoteNo, I am wrong in that count then.No. Why do you accuse me of chainsawing when you admit that my point is valid? You obviously didn't examine that vote log very hard - did you just go for the first target that caught your fancy?
Also, is Silthuri your scum buddy?
It was more or less an afterthought. And yes, I more or less did, except I picked a person I didn't know anything about (more or less), looked at the activity and log of that person, try to remember something, and then more or less realize that I indeed know nothing about the l said person, and that is more or less a reason to believe they're staying in the "sweet spot" between active and passive.
It's exactly why I'm not pressing the case - it totally is "not very good at all" due to there being only one point and a gut feeling.
More or less.
In my opinion, any time you accuse somebody because they accused you, it's an OMGUS. It doesn't have to be accompanied by a vote.*points at word OMGUS and then points at the vote list*Also, Tiruin:. . . ???Quote3. OMGUS on me after I point it outI'm not the only one, so :p
What is this pointing at?
You should be able to keep things like that straight - unless you're getting confused with your fakeclaims.TolyK: Why would you mistake the owner of the Filler Ability as yourself?Because I was the initial owner.
Unvote
Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
Post by: Salsacookies on September 07, 2014, 07:50:02 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 07, 2014, 09:31:56 pm
Post by: Scripten on September 07, 2014, 09:32:30 pm
Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
So you're basically judging your vote based on my role?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 07, 2014, 09:46:31 pm
Ok, back from my superb weekend of job finding and college stuff. Can't stay for tonight, but i will post something tommorow evening. Sorry for that
That's fine. I do hope you can get some solid reads done before Day 4 ends.
Post by: TolyK on September 07, 2014, 11:28:02 pm
Scum is more of a threat than a highly powered third party who could ally with the scum? Enough so that you go against towns wishes?Scum... Is more of a threat than survivor. Especially when we had agreed on a plan, or at least part of us did and the others are unwillingly cooperating at any rate. :p
I still think Toaster is a more positive than negative player, atm.
TWS, since I'm PFP morning style I'll just answer questions without quoting.
1. That's exactly the problem, there is basically no real content to look at that I remember. I haven't had enough time to reread the game from the start, which is why I can't really press anything.
2. That's my opinion as well, it just referred to a previous game where I was getting bugged about "improper term use".
3. That's the result of partially reworking my post over the course of several hours - I initially had a different plan, but didn't delete it all, and when glancing over my text once it seemed fine.
Post by: Toaster on September 08, 2014, 09:12:40 am
TolyK: You've lost your alignment inspection (?)- does this mean that the whole 'have Toaster lock down everyone then slowly reveal everybody's alignments one at a time' plan is kinda screwed now? In this case: Does everyone think we should have Toaster remove the panic?Yes, I have. I think it was bound to fail at some point due to people being free on their own terms. :p
I can still provide useful information (checking claims), though. And I'd love it if Toaster removed it from everyone.
Also, Jack's move-around-ability ability could be useful in deactivating potential threats.
Toaster, re this quote: Do you plan on continuing to try to lockdown everyone, or are you going to remove the panic tonight?
Plan A was to keep it going, since we have no idea the nature or source of that kill that got through. If we did want to remove it, frankly I'd rather instead fix it so everyone's action works but they keep the ability, so that the option to lock down individuals remains. I'm open to discussion about it though, since barely anyone commented. On that note:
Everyone: Do you think Plan Lockdown should continue? Why or why not?
Post by: TolyK on September 08, 2014, 12:43:59 pm
Given I can't actually investigate alignments any more... And that a kill went through, targeted at YOU... And if you die, we are stuck with the same 50% chance...
Idea: Unlock the people who are confirmed town (this probably includes Tiruin, since even if she is the SK she was probably the one who was able to kill you). Possibly me as well, though since people are FoS-ing me a lot you could keep me panic'd (which I'm personally against, but still :P).
Post by: Cheeetar on September 08, 2014, 03:00:42 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 08, 2014, 03:33:36 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 08, 2014, 03:39:49 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 08, 2014, 04:36:21 pm
Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.Yeah, this is an issue. Jack is confirmed assuming TolyK is telling the truth, I believe, which is... not great, but something.
That said, we can loosely guess that the plan has cut the number of kills in half, so I'm in favor of continuing it. I say we block TolyK as well, though; he's shifty as fuck and all of his inspects conveniently die except Toaster who dies when he's left unblocked.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 08, 2014, 05:35:50 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 08, 2014, 05:39:24 pm
pfp I'm sick
Post by: IronyOwl on September 08, 2014, 06:16:53 pm
pfp I'm sick*more pats*
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 08, 2014, 06:33:46 pm
Yeah, I agree with keeping people locked - especially TolyK. Has anyone else claimed an inspect?
Idea: Unlock the people who are confirmed town (this probably includes Tiruin, since even if she is the SK she was probably the one who was able to kill you).Tiruin isn't panicking.
Scripten:
Yes. At some point you have to admit that the person claiming a role that looks exactly like an SK role is probably the SK.Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
So you're basically judging your vote based on my role?
Post by: Scripten on September 08, 2014, 08:57:53 pm
Scripten:Yes. At some point you have to admit that the person claiming a role that looks exactly like an SK role is probably the SK.Scripten: Why are you going around priming people when you have very little information on them? I'm assuming you can't unprime - if you prime somebody, killing them will be unavoidable if you decide to kill anybody at all. Your behaviour(and role) seem more like SK than town to me.
So you're basically judging your vote based on my role?
And that point is apparently immediately after they claim? Exactly what do you expect me to do to defend myself? I've given all the information I have on my role and actions. In this setup, I could have literally claimed any sort of power and you wouldn't be any the wiser. I chose to do what I did because more information for the town is good for the town.
Do you find MBP's case against Tiruin to be viable as well, then?
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 08, 2014, 09:31:43 pm
I considered the possibility that Tiruin was the SK, yes, but that ability could make sense for a non-SK to have. It wasn't as damning, and I wasn't as certain about it.
Post by: Jack A T on September 08, 2014, 10:10:19 pm
Scripten: You never explained why you were intending to prime people, if you were intending to prime people.
TheWetSheep: Wasn't your attack on Scripten partially about his behaviour, and not just based on his role?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 08, 2014, 10:24:56 pm
Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Nobody is confirmed town. This is not paranormal. The only person you can be sure is town is yourself when you get your role from wubbah. And even then. Saying that anybody is confirmed should be punishable. Suggesting it too.
Furthermore, My top 3 are Tiruin, Scipten, and Nerjin. Also, Toaster.
Basically. Tiruin i'm pretty sure is either scum or 3rd party. Don't believe me, i don't care.
Scripten poisoner, i can't understand how that would work. I've got strong SK viibes from this. You got a town ability that you can use to prime someone, and since he got 2 he can just do 1 kill a night or hell, prime then go on a rampage. That's like an extra strength arsonist.
Nerjin did protect a known third party against town wishes. Maybe mistake maybe bad will, still something you shouldn't do.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 08, 2014, 10:28:41 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 08, 2014, 10:29:28 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 08, 2014, 10:35:13 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 08, 2014, 10:36:51 pm
And you all seem to forget that I confirmed Toaster as survivor and made him talk, which would be extremely unlikely otherwise.
The only problem with lynching me is that I'd lose a one-shot kill and another one-shot...
Morning post. Pfp. Extend.
Post by: Scripten on September 08, 2014, 11:34:53 pm
Scripten: You never explained why you were intending to prime people, if you were intending to prime people.
Since I'm town, I can use my ability in a lylo situation to leave us with only confirmed townies, if I play my cards right. (So far I haven't, it seems.) I haven't been relying on my powers alone to play the game. Exactly what am I expected to do to not be scumread for the ability set the mod gave me? If you feel that my role is too dangerous to keep around, then lynch me. I'll still win with the town. I'm defending myself only because a mislynch/nolynch would hurt the town.
I will admit, however, that having to defend my role is frustrating when I didn't design it myself.
Post by: Tiruin on September 08, 2014, 11:46:03 pm
Had less time to read and post than i tought. so, Extend. I need it.Why Nerjin?Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Nobody is confirmed town. This is not paranormal. The only person you can be sure is town is yourself when you get your role from wubbah. And even then. Saying that anybody is confirmed should be punishable. Suggesting it too.
Furthermore, My top 3 are Tiruin, Scipten, and Nerjin. Also, Toaster.
Basically. Tiruin i'm pretty sure is either scum or 3rd party. Don't believe me, i don't care.
Scripten poisoner, i can't understand how that would work. I've got strong SK viibes from this. You got a town ability that you can use to prime someone, and since he got 2 he can just do 1 kill a night or hell, prime then go on a rampage. That's like an extra strength arsonist.
Nerjin did protect a known third party against town wishes. Maybe mistake maybe bad will, still something you shouldn't do.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Also your top suspects don't include Toaster...yet you vote him. Meaning: Your whole case against me now equals 'Unsure'?
Huh.
What's the reason for the orange part being there?Scripten: You never explained why you were intending to prime people, if you were intending to prime people.
Since I'm town, I can use my ability in a lylo situation to leave us with only confirmed townies, if I play my cards right. (So far I haven't, it seems.) I haven't been relying on my powers alone to play the game. Exactly what am I expected to do to not be scumread for the ability set the mod gave me? If you feel that my role is too dangerous to keep around, then lynch me. I'll still win with the town. I'm defending myself only because a mislynch/nolynch would hurt the town.
I will admit, however, that having to defend my role is frustrating when I didn't design it myself.
Fine for unvoting MBP. Very glad to see you have some actual reads and scumhunting. Perhaps there are some questions you'd like to ask those people you view as suspicious so you can be more sure of their alignment?How do you see MBP scumhunting?
Is he reactionary or being pro-active?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 08, 2014, 11:53:31 pm
Should the day get extended I'll be able to get home and take another look at things so I can get a good read on the most likely scummy player.
Post by: Scripten on September 09, 2014, 12:02:27 am
What's the reason for the orange part being there?
I was explicit about my alignment because my roles applications to a town player were called into question.
Post by: Tiruin on September 09, 2014, 12:35:33 am
On 'why Nerjin' being "Why exactly does that make him a suspect? His reasons are detailed and outlined before your post, and show why he chose to utilize his Pardon on Toaster--the exact same effect came out anyway in the night as an aside."Had less time to read and post than i tought. so, Extend. I need it.Why Nerjin?Who is confirmed town? By my count, nobody. Tiruin is extremely close, but third party is remotely possible. TolyK I don't see any proof of confirmation at all. Remember that "confirmed" is a very strong word in Mafia.
Nobody is confirmed town. This is not paranormal. The only person you can be sure is town is yourself when you get your role from wubbah. And even then. Saying that anybody is confirmed should be punishable. Suggesting it too.
Furthermore, My top 3 are Tiruin, Scipten, and Nerjin. Also, Toaster.
Basically. Tiruin i'm pretty sure is either scum or 3rd party. Don't believe me, i don't care.
Scripten poisoner, i can't understand how that would work. I've got strong SK viibes from this. You got a town ability that you can use to prime someone, and since he got 2 he can just do 1 kill a night or hell, prime then go on a rampage. That's like an extra strength arsonist.
Nerjin did protect a known third party against town wishes. Maybe mistake maybe bad will, still something you shouldn't do.
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Also your top suspects don't include Toaster...yet you vote him. Meaning: Your whole case against me now equals 'Unsure'?
Huh.
Also I don't think you answered my queries as to how you perceive 'Role Abilities == Alignment of the person' here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5637323;topicseen#msg5637323) Please do answer when able :o
Votecount please Web?
Post by: IronyOwl on September 09, 2014, 12:41:42 am
I'd be fine with lynching me if that confirms what I said.But you haven't said anything, except that Jack is town.
And you all seem to forget that I confirmed Toaster as survivor and made him talk, which would be extremely unlikely otherwise.What do you mean "otherwise?" How is outing and then controlling a third party not also scum behavior? It even worked! You were one of three people allowed to act last night, well done.
MBP:
And I voted toaster since i'm unsure amongst the other 3, and a 3rd party lynch is better than a mislynch in my book. No offense Toasty.If you think he's likely to be NK'd anyway, why vote for him? Surely a town mislynch is better than doing scum's first pick for free and letting them spend their kill getting their second choice as well.
Also Toaster, If you want to keep the panic rolling you can, but if they killed you yesterday i assume they would be capable tonight too. Wouldn't like to be in your shoes.
Cheeetar:
Tiruin: he's actually being suspicious of people (and not all of his reasons are related to their roles.)Pretty close. Tiruin because the block/combo is too strong, Scripten because being an arsonist+ is too strong, Nerjin because he pardoned Toaster.
Post by: TolyK on September 09, 2014, 01:01:45 am
Jack is very likely confirmed town, even if I am scum (trying to get his sympathy by putting him as town :p).
Extension to finalize crap would be good. Please extend.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 09, 2014, 02:06:38 am
Irony: I meant that I am a confirmed investigator, not town.Oh. Yeah, unless scumbuddies but that'd probably be overelaborate. Although you are claiming to have now lost your original investigator ability, or something? Could you summarize your claim so far?
Jack is very likely confirmed town, even if I am scum (trying to get his sympathy by putting him as town :p).
And yeah, that'd be my first guess, but you could be scumbuddies. If your ploy works, you're both less suspected while no townies get a pass and no third parties risk getting a pass while ruining everything. If your ploy fails, suspecting Jack for it is WIFOM so he's probably somewhere between better and not much worse off.
Extension to finalize crap would be good. Please extend.I'm counting... seven extension votes, I think? I think we got it.
Post by: TolyK on September 09, 2014, 02:20:58 am
Initial role: Investigate, Randomize, Filler Ability + unclaimed
N1: Inspect Toaster, got "town" "neutral" (action happened twice), lost Filler ability
N2: Inspect NQT, got town. Gained one-shot kill.
N3: Inspect Jack, got town. Inspect turned into ability-or-rolename cop (possible power or own role gag).
I also have an unclaimed one-shot that is helpful near lylo.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 09, 2014, 02:26:22 am
N1: Inspect Toaster, got "town" "neutral" (action happened twice)Do you know why it fired twice? Do you mean it hit him twice and delivered a different result each time? That sounds less like "third party" and more like "shenanigans," if so.
N3: Inspect Jack, got town. Inspect turned into ability-or-rolename cop (possible power or own role gag).So you don't understand why your ability was altered? Have you tried confirming with wuba?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 09, 2014, 02:29:08 am
Irony: IIRC flabort actioned Toaster N1 so all actions on Toaster got copied to him.
Extend
Post by: TolyK on September 09, 2014, 02:51:46 am
I'll confirm when I have the chance.
And don't worry about me, vector algebra is easy.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 09, 2014, 07:07:40 am
Suspicious people:
TolyK: The more he types, the less inclined I am to believe he's an investigator. All of the stuff he's claimed (that person is definitely not scum, guys) has been pretty easy to claim as a scum, and the fact that he only explained why after they were dead for a few was suspicious, along with the generally reasonless way he acts. The only thing that's been on target so far has been pinning Toaster as a third party- and this was after Toaster'd already been rolecopped and somebody was likely going to expose him for stealing powers from corpses.
Toly K: You're 'okay' with being lynched. Let's say you're lynched and flip as town- how does this help us, beyond knowing that Jack is town and Toaster is third party?
MysteriousBluePuppet: Not sure if the scumminess is playing style or the fact that he's scum. Really needs to push his cases. You can't just say 'this is scummy' or 'you are scum' by itself- you need to investigate! Question people constructively- search for the answer to your suspicions.
Scripten: Attempted to prime people day 2 and 3 with little explanation as to why. I'd like to see the explanation for why you acted this way, Scripten- I don't specifically think your role condemns you to being scum, but the way you've been using it is strange to me. Why not just block everybody once so you can later prime two people per night? That way you would only target people late game anyway, at a stage in which you have much more information.
Post by: webadict on September 09, 2014, 07:57:43 am
Everything is possible.Everything is possible. A Mafiakill cannot be directly stolen by abilities that target actions, since the Mafiakill is a group ability. If you want a more specific answer, please be more specific.
Would it be possible to remove the mafia kill from play completely with the use of an ability (without killing the mafia members)?
Let me know if anything's wrong.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Nerjin,
Nerjin -
Scripten - Tiruin, TheWetSheep,
Silthuri - TolyK,
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TolyK - IronyOwl,
Urist Imiknorris -
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Urist Imiknorris, Cheeetar,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 36 hours from this post.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 09, 2014, 08:05:45 am
Unvote by the way. Thinking this through.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 09, 2014, 10:27:29 am
For nights 1 and 2, I tried to choose people who looked fairly scummy or anti-town. Flabort and Toaster fit the bill, and I was suspicious enough of P13 to aim at him. Last night, I didn't think my ability would work at all (I was told that one or both of my primes failed, so I'm fairly certain it didn't work.) so I chose a player that I have a null read on atm.You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
Post by: Scripten on September 09, 2014, 01:09:39 pm
Scripten:For nights 1 and 2, I tried to choose people who looked fairly scummy or anti-town. Flabort and Toaster fit the bill, and I was suspicious enough of P13 to aim at him. Last night, I didn't think my ability would work at all (I was told that one or both of my primes failed, so I'm fairly certain it didn't work.) so I chose a player that I have a null read on atm.You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
I didn't have any significant scumreads like I did the first two nights. I was also nearly sure my abilities would be blocked. They were.
Post by: Scripten on September 09, 2014, 01:12:32 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 09, 2014, 01:20:56 pm
If it happened that you had primed everyone at LYLO/MYLO, that would be a very great SK (arsonist) win possibility.
Also I find it funny that you claimed your role AFTER I claimed role investigator.
Post by: Scripten on September 09, 2014, 03:12:25 pm
You mean people most likely not to by lynched off, so that you could take out the rest of them and be stuck with easier-to-lynch players?
If it happened that you had primed everyone at LYLO/MYLO, that would be a very great SK (arsonist) win possibility.
Also I find it funny that you claimed your role AFTER I claimed role investigator.
So what I'm understanding is that I should have just forgotten about using my role whatsoever?
And my ability to manipulate time is well known among certain circles. Namely the fact that it doesn't work. Frankly, all full claiming is doing is getting me scumread, so maybe you can extrapolate why I would be hesitant? Also, exactly how many third parties are to be expected in this game?
Post by: Silthuri on September 09, 2014, 03:26:39 pm
Get well soon Tiruin!
Post by: Cheeetar on September 09, 2014, 03:30:15 pm
Scripten:
You tried to prime Jack N3 because you had a null read on him? Why on earth would a townie try to prime someone they had a null read on, as opposed to someone they had a scum read on?
I didn't have any significant scumreads like I did the first two nights. I was also nearly sure my abilities would be blocked. They were.
"I thought my action wouldn't go through so I did it" is not a very good excuse- instead imagine that a claimed vigilante used a kill on somebody for spurious reasons (priming people is a time-delayed kill assuming you survive to activate your 1 shot) and their excuse was "I thought I'd be blocked." Would that fly with you?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 09, 2014, 03:50:32 pm
For right now? I'm not sure. I'm suspicious of Cheetar and MBP, but those are merely gut feelings base don playstyle. I was pretty damn convinced Flabort was scum, and Varee was... well, you know how he plays. I had suspected P13, but, as you saw, he was NK'd, so my ability didn't really do anything. My picklist hasn't been very good, I'll be honest. I think I targeted Toaster once and he's 3rd party, but now I don't think I CAN target him. Or I was blocked.(emphasis mine)
And yeah, I had abilities fail every night, but I do not know which. My night game needs some work, I think. I feel like I'm falling behind in this game and I'm not sure where to turn my suspicions.
Even a gut feeling is better justification than nothing at all. Why not prime one of them?
Post by: Scripten on September 09, 2014, 03:55:34 pm
"I thought my action wouldn't go through so I did it" is not a very good excuse- instead imagine that a claimed vigilante used a kill on somebody for spurious reasons (priming people is a time-delayed kill assuming you survive to activate your 1 shot) and their excuse was "I thought I'd be blocked." Would that fly with you?
That's a false equivalency. Remember that I also block players and each of my actions had a 50% chance of failing without the power lockdown. Yes, if both of my blocks went through, that would have become a prime. It was relatively unlikely, and I may never end up using my one-shot. It is, at its core, a backup in case things get hairy.
Urist Imiknoriss: I foresee Jack being a more viable endgame player. My aim was to, if my actions did not fail, have my powers act as insurance later in the game.
Post by: webadict on September 10, 2014, 04:39:13 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 10, 2014, 04:46:18 pm
Urist Imiknoriss: I foresee Jack being a more viable endgame player. My aim was to, if my actions did not fail, have my powers act as insurance later in the game.As opposed to, if your actions did not fail, priming a suspect of yours.
Post by: Scripten on September 10, 2014, 05:05:31 pm
Urist Imiknoriss: I foresee Jack being a more viable endgame player. My aim was to, if my actions did not fail, have my powers act as insurance later in the game.As opposed to, if your actions did not fail, priming a suspect of yours.
If I suspect scum, I can push a case on them during the day. Scum-leading-town, however, are much more dangerous in the long run. So I am using my powers as a backup plan.
Post by: Jack A T on September 11, 2014, 01:20:36 am
Fuck it, cancel my replacement request. I'm not in great mental/emotional shape right now, but the guilt I feel for requesting a replacement isn't helping me. I'm not going to be as involved as I normally try to be at this stage of the game, but I'll try to be involved.
Jack:TheWetSheep: Heh. You have to understand that I placed my vote not just because of your poor activity at the time, but because of Imp's stuff as well (which does make this conversation rather awkward, unfortunately). As for the specific people you referred to, TolyK's strategic uselessness, while incredibly aggravating, is something he tried in at least one previous game as town (also, he was making real contributions to the game somehow), and Nerjin's attack both was with a clear and rebuttable reason and was clearly a preliminary statement to be improved or altered soon.TheWetSheep: In addition to my issues with your predecessor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178), I have issues with your play. Specifically, your TolyK vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5631638#msg5631638) Even for a newcomer to a very long game, this is light on content. There isn't a case, and the questions consist of a rhetorical question and a clarification request. Your next few questions to TolyK are a bit better, but you're barely there on him. Considering you've only really looked at TolyK today, there's an issue here.I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?
Now, you have significantly improved since my attack. This is good. My vote holds, though, primarily for one reason.
Why do you feel the need to deflect? What makes you so scared of my vote that you feel the need to not only defend yourself, but push me towards a bunch of other players?
Scripten: I am troubled by what appear to be attempts to delegitimize criticism of your night actions by equating it to criticism of your role. (see here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5642756#msg5642756) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5645844#msg5645844)) I am also troubled by your nervous, rather defensive (all the way up to you feeling the need, for some reason, to defend the fact that you were defending yourself) response to a quick, non-aggressive question from someone who was replacing out at the time (see the second linked post). Please explain.
Would it be correct to say that your plan was basically to prime all the likely long-lived players so you could zap a bunch at the end if you felt it was necessary? Also, even ignoring the priming part, why did you feel so comfortable with blocking a skilled non-suspect?
On the second, I have had substantially less time than I wished, and have had to rush my readings of the thread.Urist Imiknorris: Alright. Did you intend to read my Day 1 stuff later?
I was reading your FoSes in that post as actual FoSes instead of merely things that caught your eye.They were sort of a mix. Suspicion due to things I noticed that, in my quick initial post, I declared I would examine in more detail to determine what to do. By the way, you skipped a few questions here:
What makes you view Cheeetar and Flabort as the two sides of the conflict? What makes them "both," as in all, of the sides? What is it that is scummy about a willingness to critically examine "both sides" of an issue?Answer them.
It [the attack on Nerjin] hardly counts as an attack when you back down almost immediately, as you've done a rather large portion of the time.It was a true attack. Just one that, due to the response (which was a real-life-based explanation that fit the actions taken quite well), I had no reason to continue with. The fact that I am somewhat willing to accept reasonable defenses does not make aggression non-aggression.
I am amused to see you try to justify not including Nerjin this way, with your reasons having clearly been created after your actions (by this standard, the Cheeetar FoS should not have been included. You outright emphasized that FoS.). Please explain this.
Alright, I shall rephrase. Why is your attack a flipped version of one part of my attack on Imp, and why did you try to make the evidence fit such a conclusion instead of finding a conclusion with the evidence?QuoteBut this part does make your goal in your accusation clear. You want to flip part of my attack on Imp around, and put reaching my Imp conclusion about me above reaching an evidence-based conclusion. Why did you prioritize flipping the attack on Imp around over making a good case?False.
what is your read on Irony, exactly?General thoughts (no in-depth search, sorry): He's come across as stressed and confused for much of the game, albeit still trying to contribute well. Biggest issue, which I think I considered well-covered by others at the time, was his temporary obsession with Cheeetar. Generally, though, he's mostly seemed okay. Bit of a background player, though that's easy when the game's been dominated by self-destructing players (Flabort, MBP...) and irritating non-contributing players (TolyK, Varee...). Mild town lean.
In any case, I look forward to your promised evaluation.Not now, sorry.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 11, 2014, 01:37:49 am
Good use of that extension.I know. Been busy. Remain busy. Odds of lynching scum approaching zero.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 11, 2014, 03:52:18 am
If I suspect scum, I can push a case on them during the day. Scum-leading-town, however, are much more dangerous in the long run. So I am using my powers as a backup plan.
You have a pretty strong power- just having two blocks alone would be fairly good for town. Why are you only aiming to use it as a backup plan in case you can't find scum during the days lynch? I remind you of the question in the post I linked above- doesn't it make more sense to block multiple people once, and then only prime those you see as suspicious later?
Good use of that extension.
Sorry Webadict :(
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 05:31:34 am
TolyK: The more he types, the less inclined I am to believe he's an investigator. All of the stuff he's claimed (that person is definitely not scum, guys) has been pretty easy to claim as a scum, and the fact that he only explained why after they were dead for a few was suspicious, along with the generally reasonless way he acts. The only thing that's been on target so far has been pinning Toaster as a third party- and this was after Toaster'd already been rolecopped and somebody was likely going to expose him for stealing powers from corpses.It doesn't, except that it makes me less of a burden on everyone (which is not a valid point from my perspective). But I wouldn't be too disappointed with it, to be honest.
Toly K: You're 'okay' with being lynched. Let's say you're lynched and flip as town- how does this help us, beyond knowing that Jack is town and Toaster is third party?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 06:44:00 am
Post by: webadict on September 11, 2014, 07:58:04 am
Couldn't post yesterday, always got a bad gateway error. I suspect it was the Slow Internet movement thing causing it. I'll check it up when i'm back from classes.I, too, got this. So, 12 Hour extension from now.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Nerjin,
Nerjin -
Scripten - TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris,
Silthuri - TolyK,
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TolyK - IronyOwl,
Urist Imiknorris -
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Cheeetar, Tiruin,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 13 hours from this post.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 08:08:20 am
And I'm still sick!
Though recovering, on due part to people wishing me well and physical regeneration :v
Err, didn't the extend push through?
Post by: webadict on September 11, 2014, 08:55:00 am
So, I'm dealing with a ton of workload and missed stuffs due to missing ONE DAY of class due to sickness.You mean the first one? Yeah. You guys aren't even using this one though, so why should I give a second one?
And I'm still sick!
Though recovering, on due part to people wishing me well and physical regeneration :v
Err, didn't the extend push through?
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 08:55:35 am
Post by: webadict on September 11, 2014, 10:01:06 am
Because we've a maximum of 2 per day?I'm still waiting for you guys to use this one.
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 10:35:04 am
Unvote.
Current cases/info (totally incomplete)
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid with things going both ways (inc. Flabort's dilemma)
IronyOwl - null
Jack A T - town
Mysteriousbluepuppet - spouting a case and defending it very stubbornly, slight scum read (knowing him)
Nerjin - has pardon, but very possibly scum (due to PoE)
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK, timing of claim right after my action-investigate claim + bad logic for targets
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling, not much more
Tiruin - very likely town
TheWetSheep - can't say at the moment as I need to reread
Toaster - blank Toaster read
TolyK - most definitely insane
Urist Imiknorris - need to reread, but replaced for 4mask (?) who seemed a bit scummy to me.
What's out night game?
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:42:50 am
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:43:14 am
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 10:45:40 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 10:47:34 am
I'm guessing I should not waste my one-shot, then.What one-shot?
Unless I hear a convincing case already, I already know what I'm doing. Saying what that is would wreck the plan, so everyone should just act like they would normally.What plan?
Mysteriousbluepuppet - spouting a case and defending it very stubbornly, slight scum read (knowing him)Could you detail his behavior?
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:53:12 am
Extend then
Why? Web's right; nothing happened with the last one, and we got a bonus day from the gateway errors.
Unless I hear a convincing case already, I already know what I'm doing. Saying what that is would wreck the plan, so everyone should just act like they would normally.What plan?
The plan of what I'm doing with lockdowns.
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 10:56:35 am
What do you mean, detail his behavior? I didn't read through a bunch of the posts where he kept on stubbornly sticking to his "that power is too OP to be town". To be more precise I need to reread, and that's not something I can do atm.
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 11:18:32 am
Tiruin:Err, on why stuff aren't being posted for a day == a TON of factors :sExtend then
Why? Web's right; nothing happened with the last one, and we got a bonus day from the gateway errors.
Here, I'm too sick to contribute however my suspicions still lie with MBP//Script + TolyK, who is...confusing :/
MBP however is balanced by how forceful he goes on with his case and ideas...though something is still sticking me strange :I
Script due to...err, how he used his role. While I do appreciate the honesty, the appearance of an SK is a very good scapegoat for him as a target--not to mention the unconscious bias regarding any primer, unless you'd take in the counterknowledge of town primers (which exist)...and the situation wherein 'yes, bad decisions happen', of which I'm all too aware of its existence. :I
>.>
The one game where you're 99% town and you can't decide. GRAH.
What do you mean, detail his behavior? I didn't read through a bunch of the posts where he kept on stubbornly sticking to his "that power is too OP to be town". To be more precise I need to reread, and that's not something I can do atm.You added a
So...^ orange.
Unvote.
Current cases/info (totally incomplete)
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid with things going both ways (inc. Flabort's dilemma)
IronyOwl - null
Jack A T - town
Mysteriousbluepuppet - spouting a case and defending it very stubbornly, slight scum read (knowing him)
Nerjin - has pardon, but very possibly scum (due to PoE)
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK, timing of claim right after my action-investigate claim + bad logic for targets
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling, not much more
Tiruin - very likely town
TheWetSheep - can't say at the moment as I need to reread
Toaster - blank Toaster read
TolyK - most definitely insane
Urist Imiknorris - need to reread, but replaced for 4mask (?) who seemed a bit scummy to me.
What's out night game?
So this to me feels like you've some kind of analysis you have about him that modifies how you see him. 'Knowing him'.
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 11:38:12 am
I'm sorry for being confusing.
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 11:54:52 am
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 12:06:23 pm
His character as a person, a human being, in his behavior.
Post by: Scripten on September 11, 2014, 12:44:07 pm
That said, I am giving my best account of my logic (however poor) in choosing night targets. Were I to be lynched, I could understand the points brought up against me when it comes to my actual play. However, I was also being attacked much earlier over the pure appearance of my role, which is something I completely disagree about. Due to the nature of the game, I feel like trying to analyze roles alone is folly. I could see just about any combination of roles and alignments being viable if the designer (Web) were skilled enough to balance.
I will admit to substandard play this game. I've been slightly overwhelmed and have made choices that, in retrospect, were not the best. At this juncture, I'm purely defending myself for the sake of avoiding another mislynch. I don't have any hard scumreads on others. (Suspicions, sure, but those are, as I said, gut reads and not particularly strong.) I don't really know what to do with my night actions atm. The more people concentrate on tearing apart my night actions, the more time we spend avoiding actual scum, so I'm going to just summarize like this:
My night play has been bad. I apologize. Lynch me if you think I'm going to be a liability. Just don't let my poor play distract you from real scum. As shown with prior lynched, poor play =/= scum play. Take from that what you will, I guess.
Post by: Nerjin on September 11, 2014, 12:46:23 pm
Nerjin - has pardon, but very possibly scum (due to PoE)
What do you mean by PoE?
Aside from that I really have nothing to add. I won't be around much today due to work and I've been sick the last couple of days so I didn't feel like dealing with it.
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 01:02:45 pm
As I said, this would be pseudo-math.
And wow long post.
Post by: Nerjin on September 11, 2014, 01:11:26 pm
Current cases/info [Nerjin makes notes in Limegreen]
TolyK - Town [I assume you think yourself town in this list]
Jack A T - town You say as much.
Tiruin - very likely town
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid with things going both ways (inc. Flabort's dilemma)
TheWetSheep - Null You say you need to re-read
Toaster - blank Toaster read I assume this just means null
IronyOwl - null
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK, timing of claim right after my action-investigate claim + bad logic for targets
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling, not much more
Urist Imiknorris - need to reread, but replaced for 4mask (?) who seemed a bit scummy to me.
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Slight scum for poor case.
Nerjin - Has Pardon, but Scum due to Process of Elimination.
So you pick four people as scum here out of the remaining players with three being people you have no case on. That's 3 town, 4 Nulls, 1 as SK, and 4 Scum. I'm not entirely sure how you arrive to your conclusion that I'm scum. Could you please elaborate on why process of elimination leads to me as opposed to the other three players that you pick out as scum? Why doesn't it point to one of the null players?
I'm just curious.
Post by: Scripten on September 11, 2014, 01:15:35 pm
And wow long post.
Sorry. Trying to get back into this game. Play's been crap so far.
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 01:43:45 pm
So let me just sort this out really quickBecause you aren't 100% scum. Lets see...
%scum (0% means totally town), %SK
Given 13 players and 3 scum, and 1 SK and 1 survivor (I'm assuming he's confirmed for simplicity) in the mix as well.
Average scum chance is 3/12 = 25%
Average SK chance is 1/12 ~= 8%
TolyK - Town 0% 0%
Jack A T - town 1% 0%
Tiruin - very likely town 3% 2%
Cheeetar - neutral, fairly solid 20% 7%
TheWetSheep - Null 25% 7%
Toaster - blank Toaster read 25% 8%
IronyOwl - null 25% 8%
Scripten - very good candidate for an SK 20% 35%
Silthuri - slightly scum just based on gut feeling 30% 8%
Urist Imiknorris - aka slightly scummy 30% 8%
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Slight scum for poor case. 33% 9%
Nerjin - Has Pardon, but Scum due to Process of Elimination. ??% 8%
[/quote]
0 0 2 7 7 8 8 35 8 8 9 8 (sum) = 100
1 3 20 25 25 20 30 30 33 ?? (sum) = 187 + ??
This actually gives the four of you higher than ~30% probability.
Numbers are taken more or less from the sky, but are symbolic in that more scummy players have higher numbers (the function of scumminess-to-score has a positive slope everywhere... yeah...)
Quote
So you pick four people as scum here out of the remaining players with three being people you have no case on. That's 3 town, 4 Nulls, 1 as SK, and 4 Scum. I'm not entirely sure how you arrive to your conclusion that I'm scum. Could you please elaborate on why process of elimination leads to me as opposed to the other three players that you pick out as scum? Why doesn't it point to one of the null players?'splained. I hope.
I'm just curious.
Post by: Nerjin on September 11, 2014, 03:44:07 pm
Care to explain a little better how "PoE" factors into this in any meaningful fashion?
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2014, 04:45:27 pm
Process of Elimination. Not really elimination, but given 300 scum-points on 1300 total (x100 so that % likelihood is integer) it turns out to be a fairly high probability.TolyK could you come up with a more definitive or concrete or qualitative case?
As I said, this would be pseudo-math.
And wow long post.
Bah.ISN'T THIS VERY IMPORTANT TO DETAIL THEN!?
His character as a person, a human being, in his behavior.
I don't see any details from who you may be detailing as possibly scum--when you talk about his behavior as a CHARACTER, then MAYBE that would be a great deal of something, right?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 06:18:20 pm
Just back from classes. 12 hours long laboratories, fun day.
For today, i'll keep my vote on Toaster. I cannot condone having a 3rd party around so long, especially one that could aquire kills, protect and other powers that WILL become detrimental to town the longuer the game goes.
Should Toaster be pardoned or some other shenanigan i'd vote for Nerjin, for protecting said KNOWN third party. Whom do a survivor benefit late game? Scum.
Tiruin by my logic, that I'm sure will be vindicated. Take it as gut feeling if you prefer.
Jack A T is nonexistant, wich is a shame. Wetsheep i doN,t even remmeber who you replaced. Will have to look into it. 4 mask i think.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 11, 2014, 06:45:37 pm
TolyK, I find your percentages fun to read but not very informative. Why are there two null reads in your list if Nerjin is only scum due to process of elimination?
For today, i'll keep my vote on Toaster. I cannot condone having a 3rd party around so long, especially one that could aquire kills, protect and other powers that WILL become detrimental to town the longuer the game goes.
I would be voting for Toaster with you, were it not for the fact that he did take a bullet the previous night and might just take another. I don't think scum are his friend currently.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 07:32:58 pm
Quote
Quote from: Mysteriousbluepuppet on Today at 06:18:20 pm
For today, i'll keep my vote on Toaster. I cannot condone having a 3rd party around so long, especially one that could aquire kills, protect and other powers that WILL become detrimental to town the longuer the game goes.
I would be voting for Toaster with you, were it not for the fact that he did take a bullet the previous night and might just take another. I don't think scum are his friend currently.
I can understand that, but it may also be that they wanted to have him on a leash, and only have to use 1 kill later if they need it. Anyway i don't think either of us know at this time.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 11, 2014, 07:36:57 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 11, 2014, 08:09:45 pm
Why'd you tie the vote so late in the day Tiruin?
Jack:
My vote holds, though, primarily for one reason.Why is the Imp stuff less of an issue now?
Quote
Why do you feel the need to deflect? What makes you so scared of my vote that you feel the need to not only defend yourself, but push me towards a bunch of other players?I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.
MPB: I replaced Imp.
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 09:31:04 pm
So I've been reading back a bit, and I notice nobody at all has really made any big deal out of Urist Imiknoriss being able to lose his panic so quickly. I'm worried here that he's not the only one who did. What do you think the chances are that that nightkill's likely to be used again, Toaster?
Er... did I miss that? I didn't see him saying that. And I don't know; I'll just have to wait and see.
Sheep:
Day will be ending any time, right? And we're heading into a tie(2 for TolyK, 2 for Scripten). Scripten's post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5651703#msg5651703) seems very transparent and genuine, and I'm having second thoughts. I'll go with TolyK, who's been suspicious for a while, to avoid a tie.
While I wouldn't really mind seeing either of them hang, I'd rather do Scripten first. I'm not going to force a tie over the issue, though.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 11, 2014, 09:55:25 pm
Cheeetar:So I've been reading back a bit, and I notice nobody at all has really made any big deal out of Urist Imiknoriss being able to lose his panic so quickly. I'm worried here that he's not the only one who did. What do you think the chances are that that nightkill's likely to be used again, Toaster?
Er... did I miss that? I didn't see him saying that. And I don't know; I'll just have to wait and see.
Yep! Lots of people seem to have missed it.
D3 I reverted from Dog state to Puppy state, ridding myself of Panic.
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:06:01 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:08:53 pm
Post by: Jack A T on September 11, 2014, 10:28:52 pm
Jack:TheWetSheep: It's not that the Imp stuff is less of an issue now. It's that the brazen deflection is much more of an issue, and keeps my vote on you instead of Scripten.My vote holds, though, primarily for one reason.Why is the Imp stuff less of an issue now?
Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.QuoteWhy do you feel the need to deflect? What makes you so scared of my vote that you feel the need to not only defend yourself, but push me towards a bunch of other players?I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.
So, I ask again: why did you feel the need to deflect?
Scripten: Alright. Please answer these questions:
Would it be correct to say that your plan was basically to prime all the likely long-lived players so you could zap a bunch at the end if you felt it was necessary? Also, even ignoring the priming part, why did you feel so comfortable with blocking a skilled non-suspect?
'splained. I hope.TolyK: No, it really isn't. A bunch of numbers mean little without a good explanation of how you came up with those numbers (and no, "taken more or less from the sky" is not a good explanation).
So UI, why did MBP claim a different ability name than the one you gave?Toaster: Can you remind me where this was?
Jack A T is nonexistant, wich is a shame.MBP: I'm back now. Still in the poor mental/emotional state I was in that got me to drop out of the game, but I found the guilt tied to dropping out wasn't helping me.
Post by: Toaster on September 11, 2014, 10:42:33 pm
My auto is Cute.
My other auto is Dog Years.
As a night action I can Play With someone, blocking them.
Dog (granted morning of D3):
My Auto is Circle of Life.
As a night action I can be someone's Best Friend,
Once, as a night action, I can invoke All Dogs Go To Heaven.
And i confirm the Puppy dog eyes from Urist
Right here.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 10:46:07 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 10:46:34 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 11, 2014, 10:47:29 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 11, 2014, 11:49:31 pm
I actually did goof, since Nerjin was also a mixed read, he should've started out at the "average" level. However I still maintain that it makes the other three scummier than average.
The actual numbers themselves aren't as important as their relative order. But since I'm about to be lynched anyways, if anyone wants I can explain after the game is finished (or in deadchat hahaha).
My one request is to unblock me for today, so that I could still be useful today (I have a day action!).
Post by: IronyOwl on September 12, 2014, 12:16:39 am
I will hopefully at some point do things.
Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Cheeetar, Tolyk: Day's ending and you're not voting. Are you as braindead as I am or what? Are you fine with a 2-vote Scripten lynch?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 12, 2014, 12:21:57 am
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 12:59:49 am
Post by: Silthuri on September 12, 2014, 08:30:36 am
Toaster, Silthuri, Scripten, Cheeetar, Tolyk: Day's ending and you're not voting. Are you as braindead as I am or what? Are you fine with a 2-vote Scripten lynch?Braindead seems like the correct term. :P
Scripten claimed arsonist or something similar, didn't he? I haven't read much yet, but that doesn't seem like something we want hanging around.
Post by: Nerjin on September 12, 2014, 09:05:10 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 12, 2014, 09:10:40 am
No lynches don't help anyone but mafia. We gain information if someone is lynched. If no one is lynched scum get a free day kill and we come right back to where we are now. DO NOT NO LYNCH!!!Err, this, dudes.
Especially if I somehow get hilariously killed and Toaster is still alive (no offense orange appliance buddy ._.)
That's why I'm voting one person rather than...not :/ I'm also feeling undecided, however I'm feeling that scum are pretty much hiding under the veil of honesty here :\
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 12, 2014, 09:31:39 am
Unvote. Don't feel comfortable with my malaise vote at the moment, and I think we're tied at two votes apiece anyway.Nope. We were, but I switched to Tolyk making it 3 for TolyK and 1 for Scripten. Now it's 2 TolyK, 2 No-lynch and 1 Scripten(I think).
Post by: Nerjin on September 12, 2014, 09:35:03 am
I'm especially curious as to why the No-Lynchers think that No-lynching is a good idea.
No- I'm not. I don't have a better suggestion though- absolutely not thinking too well right now. I think Scripten has picked his night actions poorly, but he was also completely upfront about them. I'd rather a no lynch than a 2 person lynch on Scripten.
Explain why getting information from a lynch by two people is beaten by giving Mafia a free night kill and then us doing this same song and dance tomorrow.
I'd agree with a no lynch, as I don't feel comfortable voting Scripten, or anyone, at the moment.
YES YOU DO! You've stated your reads on everyone. YOu said you had scum reads. You have THREE people you suspect of being scum [or at least leanings towards that] so get in here and build a case on one of them. Don't have one? Explain why you think they're scum enough that you assigned numbers to it. Stop being lazy with your vote.
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 09:46:35 am
Given 8-3-1 in terms of town/mafia/SK.
Post by: Scripten on September 12, 2014, 10:07:15 am
In the meantime, I'm disliking the idea of a nolynch. TolyK hasn't really struck me as particularly scummy, but I'd rather go for a potential non-town than a (from my POV) confirmed town.
Therefore... TolyK
Post by: Tiruin on September 12, 2014, 10:08:02 am
Ok, maybe I may be jumping over the bush but TolyK: What really makes you see people as scum or not? Numbers? Or qualitative details?
Can you make your case based on the latter and not the former? Reword it, I mean.
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 10:11:01 am
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 10:11:43 am
Anyways.
Ebwodp soon
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 10:16:02 am
I've been working by confirming townies and rooting out scum that way, given I wasn't able to find a bad guy the normal way. That would theoretically increase our chances of lynching scum each day.
Also, I can make myself die in two days. Yes, days, not ways.
Also, how much time until deadline?
Post by: webadict on September 12, 2014, 11:56:34 am
Post by: TolyK on September 12, 2014, 04:42:10 pm
Post by: webadict on September 12, 2014, 07:02:36 pm
No...
Wait.
Scratch that.
They look at Scripten. Yep, the votes don't lie. He's the one that's up for a stomach pump this time.
And his stomach contains nothing but peanut brittle that he brought from home.
Bleh.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Scripten - Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Tiruin, TheWetSheep, Nerjin, Scripten,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch - Cheeetar,
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri, IronyOwl,
7 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately -22 hours from this post.)
Scripten has been lynched!
Scripten was an Emerald Cockroach Wasp (town).
It is now Night.
Quote
Scripten
Town
Emerald Cockroach Wasp
You are an Emerald Cockraoch Wasp. I really have nothing else to add to this.
(Night) Sting [target]: You may use this ability a second time each Night if this ability is the only action you use. You sting the target, paralyzing them. The target is blocked. If a target has been stung twice, you lay an egg in the target.
(1-Shot) Hatch: All eggs hatch, killing any players that have an egg laid in them.
[REDACTED]
Post by: webadict on September 15, 2014, 10:23:42 pm
IronyOwl has been killed!
IronyOwl was a Catgirl Maid (town).
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, TolyK, Tiruin, TheWetSheep, Nerjin, Cheeetar, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Jack A T,
6 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 71 hours from this post.)
It is now Day.
Quote
IronyOwl
Town
Catgirl Maid
You are a… Catgirl Maid, I guess.
(Night) Nya~! [target]: You do your stupid catgirl noise thing and motivate the target, giving them an extra vote during the following Day.
[REDACTED]
(1-Shot, Night) Blood Destruction: You may activate this as a free action. You have an unlimited number of actions this Night. Afterwards, you may no longer action for the remainder of the game.
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 10:31:38 pm
The imagery is quite funny.
IronyOwl goes Nya nya nya~ :P
@Scripten: In...talking about your role in the context prior to knowing it, you could've given
MBP: I'd like your answer to my questions a long time ago, and to the current one. A refresher idea is: What did you think of an arsonist being town, as a tangent.
PFP
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 15, 2014, 10:44:39 pm
My action worked tonight, i spied you Tiruin and got your redirect, so that at least checks out.
WHat i'm wondering is what does Tolyk has to say about the whole lynch another player with less votes thing.
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 10:46:23 pm
I tought it was extremely unlikely, since arsonist is normaly a SK ability. Was wrong, it seems.Err...redirect?
My action worked tonight, i spied you Tiruin and got your redirect, so that at least checks out.
WHat i'm wondering is what does Tolyk has to say about the whole lynch another player with less votes thing.
Also
Quote
lynch another player with less votes thing.^?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 15, 2014, 10:50:00 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 10:53:20 pm
Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.
The Day was about to expire and the leading lynch was two people voting for somebody. I'd rather not vote for anyone at all and hope that Toaster blocks the nightkill than have somebody be lynched by two people- wasn't thinking too clearly at the time and couldn't name a better target.
PFP.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 15, 2014, 10:54:24 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 10:54:43 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 10:55:52 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 15, 2014, 11:09:00 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 15, 2014, 11:09:53 pm
. Err...redirect?
Redirecting lynches ?
Seriously, follow the damn game.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 11:11:26 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 11:13:09 pm
Wut?. Err...redirect?
Redirecting lynches ?
Seriously, follow the damn game.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 11:34:23 pm
If Tiruin has that ability (MBP isn't lying and wasn't redirected) then Tiruin is definitely scum, seeing as she was voting for TolyK at the time and the use of the ability caused Scripten to be lynched.
Post by: TolyK on September 15, 2014, 11:35:29 pm
Alright, first off. Wuba, I didn't get any PM. Does this mean my action failed or what?
Now, uh.
Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.Because I wasn't sure Scripten was scum, and I'd prefer to check someone's claim (and get more information from others).
If you want to say that I'm back-tracking after Scripten is already not scum, read my posts before day end.
Now. I'm the person who switched the votes from me to Scripten - 'tis an ability that I got. It can only transfer from me, not anyone else. As you see, I was forced to lynch him instead of me by his own logic (if it's between him and me, I'm confirmed town to myself, so I'll lynch him).
Toaster, what happened this night? Though it might be better to wait until others claim. You got the autos, at least.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 11:38:46 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2014, 11:40:01 pm
...Interesting...so you're both an inspector and someone who can, in particular, possess the ability to save thyself if you are voted (ie switch votes to a single person).
Alright, first off. Wuba, I didn't get any PM. Does this mean my action failed or what?
Now, uh.Cheeetar and TolyK: Please explain why you would have preferred to no-lynch.Because I wasn't sure Scripten was scum, and I'd prefer to check someone's claim (and get more information from others).
If you want to say that I'm back-tracking after Scripten is already not scum, read my posts before day end.
Now. I'm the person who switched the votes from me to Scripten - 'tis an ability that I got. It can only transfer from me, not anyone else. As you see, I was forced to lynch him instead of me by his own logic (if it's between him and me, I'm confirmed town to myself, so I'll lynch him).
Toaster, what happened this night? Though it might be better to wait until others claim. You got the autos, at least.
And you did it at day end.
The latest parts of day end.
Now, this is reasonable. Understandable. But what ticks me off mark is that one part.
As you see, I was forced to lynch him instead of me by his own logic (if it's between him and me, I'm confirmed town to myself, so I'll lynch him).The wording does not sound right here.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 15, 2014, 11:40:37 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 12:04:01 am
Second of all, I still have my one-shot kill that could be useful, as well as action inspecting (which I did this night but didn't get a reply on).
Thirdly, it was at a moment where I thought I wouldn't have enough time to play in two games at once, and I had slightly screwed up in this one already. (slightly...)
As to why I didn't say anything - well, the first reason is obvious (you would just re-vote), and I was also uncertain as to the timing.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 12:08:03 am
Tolyk claimed it now, anyway
In any case, i really dont like that ability. Strong scum vibes, again. Also, at this point if we don't get scum fast enough we'll hit lylo soon.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 12:08:55 am
Was it a one shot, auto, or something else that was used, TolyK? Also, it might've indeed been preferable to tell people so they could change their vote. If you were still lynched (and that lynch was redirected) at least you were honest about what would happen, right?
I see it as very strange. Seeing as you caused it to happen (or at the least knew it would happen) why did you let the situation develop such that it did? Why not try and change the course of the day?
Post by: IronyOwl on September 16, 2014, 12:10:22 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 12:35:01 am
C'mon dude, everyone know
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 12:36:28 am
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 01:18:25 am
MBP, what was the wording? Tiruin, why didn't you claim it earlier?o_O
If I have either received such an ability--Web didn't message me. I, however, do not have any such ability along the lines of possible redirecting.
MBP: You have either lied, or have been redirected. Has it explicitly been stated that Tiruin = [Has Redirect ability]?
Why aren't you jumping on my case--as I've never mentioned such a power in my possession in my fullclaim earlier?
Also could you rephrase or reword your last 2 post prior to this one please?
...I can't understand them in relation to Cheeetar's question.
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 01:24:45 am
Night, Rewrite (target). You randomise the targetOh, and I mean that I don't have this. Ever.
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 01:45:59 am
It was an N-shot (1 or 2). I'll withhold that for now, it might be useful at LYLO.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 01:51:26 am
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 08:34:22 am
Scripten could force himself to be guarded by anyone he had primed. Per Wuba, this does not affect their action and they don't realize they're doing it; they just take the bullet if he is the target of a kill. This is not an auto- it requires an action. Basically, he could block two people or one person and activate the guard. Since he never blocked anyone twice (by his claim, which I'm taking at face value), pretty useless.
Irony had a track, which means when combined with his 1-shot could track everyone one night. Not sure why he hadn't used it yet (or if so why he hadn't claimed it.)
More importantly, Tiruin, TolyK, and MBP should claim what they did last night, and be really friggen crystal clear about it, considering how night action prevention went down last night. Anyone else who can circumvent the lockdown should claim too.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 16, 2014, 08:36:15 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 08:43:45 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:01:50 am
More importantly, Tiruin, TolyK, and MBP should claim what they did last night, and be really friggen crystal clear about it, considering how night action prevention went down last night. Anyone else who can circumvent the lockdown should claim too.Que?
I did the same thing I could only do to Nerjin, due to same reasons of insight on him + personal reads on him.
...Also why the stressy words Toaster? ._.
For your aswer Toaster, i used my ability check TIruin, like i said i would. Got the Randomise ability thing i described earlier.Reword that again please in a legible format.
You used your ability on Me.
You found I can Randomize?
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 09:03:21 am
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 09:04:52 am
The two above posts are NOT crystal clear, as I did not understand them and they're ambiguous in general.
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:11:12 am
Tiruin: Just for the record, can you spell that out please?...Spell what out? o_O
Toaster is stressed.
That?
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 09:18:25 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:22:16 am
I was pretty divided on whether it'd be Irony (because I love him so) or Nerjin :^
But in all seriousness. I targeted Nerjin. At the current player # of the time; it is a Protect.
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:24:51 am
More importantly, Tiruin, TolyK, and MBP should claim what they did last night, and be really friggen crystal clear about it, considering how night action prevention went down last night. Anyone else who can circumvent the lockdown should claim too.Why isn't UI in this area? He was able to puppy dog out. I wasn't affected by my own one-shot.
Why those specific people?
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 09:32:18 am
I blocked everyone I could but MBP. TolyK reported action failed, which is consistent. MBP reported an action, which is also consistent.
The inconsistency is MBP claiming to find an action on Tiruin that she did not have. This leads to three possibilities:
1) MBP is lying
2) Tiruin is lying
3) MBP got redirected/randomized
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?
MBP: Is there anything in your role that could have caused you to hit the wrong target?
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:34:18 am
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?Err, like I said before--I have nothing on my person that does redirects. Ever. At all.
Hence why I poked at:
MBP: You have either lied, or have been redirected. Has it explicitly been stated that Tiruin = [Has Redirect ability]?...Which he's not answering.
Why aren't you jumping on my case--as I've never mentioned such a power in my possession in my fullclaim earlier?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 09:39:34 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 09:40:16 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 09:42:24 am
Quote
Night, Rewrite (target). You randomise the target
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
There, spoonfed.
I tought it was Randomise the target as in, redirect abilities. Then i've read it back, and saw that it wasn't the good wording for that.
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 09:44:16 am
Hey TIruin. I'm all for more people playing, but i did say that. Again, ho about you drop the empty accusation and read what people are saying.I get it :v
What I don't get is why you don't consider yourself being redirected and/or acknowledging what I say at all other than 'this is what I said'.
I mean given how you claim to remember things, you at least must have remembered my roleclaim. You aren't poking at it, but only saying 'Tiruin's ok'.
Now, is this what you saw IN ME?QuoteNight, Rewrite (target). You randomise the target
Reading back, could be a random ability thing too.
There, spoonfed.
I tought it was Randomise the target as in, redirect abilities. Then i've read it back, and saw that it wasn't the good wording for that.
Is this your current belief, now?
Please do say if its not anyone else or had a hint to anyone else.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 16, 2014, 09:51:45 am
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?If the answer to both those questions is no, it means there's at least one scum among the unblocked players(and very possibly two). Was anyone else unblocked, other than MBP, Tiruin and UI?
MBP: Is there anything in your role that could have caused you to hit the wrong target?
TolyK is still scum, and I find MBP to be acting strange today. Normally he wouldn't be missing a chance to accuse Tiruin, especially over a night-action conflict this blatant. He's also completely avoiding the question when asked about it.
TolyK: Couldn't you have tied the vote, making it no-lynch, which you were arguing for?
Toaster: Your probability control thing can't be blocked?
PPE: Lots
Post by: Nerjin on September 16, 2014, 09:59:41 am
Wait- are you saying Tiruin redirected the lynch, MBP?
Why did you vote Tiruin here while asking a question to MBP who we already know is useless when it comes to anything concerning Tiruin due to bias and crappy scum-hunting.
Puppet could you please be more precise with your arguments? You seem to just say stuff with little justification. "This is that." and that's all. No explanation. When we asked you to use good arguments we didn't mean one word statements with very little actual content.
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 10:03:45 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 10:06:54 am
I'm unsure when the exact time was for day end (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5654128#msg5654128) but you...had an hour or so to panic? It's pretty understandable of the pressure of the situation//realization time, but...
Why the note of panic, anyway? I think that's the first time I've seen that idea in your posts here TolyK.
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 10:14:01 am
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 10:26:30 am
Tiruin: Is there anything in your role that could have caused MBP to hit the wrong target?If the answer to both those questions is no, it means there's at least one scum among the unblocked players(and very possibly two). Was anyone else unblocked, other than MBP, Tiruin and UI?
MBP: Is there anything in your role that could have caused you to hit the wrong target?
I only let MBP through. Tiruin never had it, and UI fixed himself. Anyone else is avoiding it.
Toaster: Your probability control thing can't be blocked?
It appears not since MBP and TolyK matched up what I said, and no one else is claiming getting through.
So... Neither MBP nor Tiruin claim any ability that could deflect the inspect. Assuming neither are lying, that leads to three conclusions:
1) Someone bypassed the lockdown and targeted MBP.
2) Someone bypassed the lockdown and mass-redirected.
3) Some sort of automatic ability redirected MBP. (See Shakerag's flip for an example)
I rather doubt it's case 1. Why would someone bypass the lock to target one person who may or may not even be acting?
The issue with 3 is that it'd mean two people have an identical ability. This isn't impossible, but it'd be really odd.
Now 2 has potential. For example, why was Irony killed? Assuming the kill from both of the last two nights are scum-based, why not kill me when they had the chance? A mass redirect would explain that as well.
Back to the original possibilities, I do not doubt that MBP has an ability cop action. He called my ability (name included) and 4mask/UI saw this. Therefore, I believe that SOMEONE has that ability, as he claimed.
Tiruin... now Tiruin could be lying. The problem is I don't see as to what benefit. I can't think of a reason Tiruin would be lying about having a randomize, since it's not a terribly scummy ability.
Am I missing anything here?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 03:05:59 pm
Wait- are you saying Tiruin redirected the lynch, MBP?
Why did you vote Tiruin here while asking a question to MBP who we already know is useless when it comes to anything concerning Tiruin due to bias and crappy scum-hunting.
I thought it was one of those moments in a crime procedural where the main detective uncovers one clue almost by coincidence and suddenly all the pieces come together- if Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course! - this was silly of me. MBP clarified that what he meant was nothing like what I read from his post, anyway.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 16, 2014, 03:08:36 pm
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!Sigged.
Toaster: You're missing Jack and Silthuri's claims, as they haven't posted yet.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 03:20:30 pm
This is not an auto- it requires an action.
Toaster, didn't you claim only being able to take autos?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 03:21:28 pm
Quote from: CheeetarIf Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!Sigged.
Aw. Thanks :D
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 03:22:02 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 03:22:32 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 03:42:01 pm
This is not an auto- it requires an action.
Toaster, didn't you claim only being able to take autos?
No. I had just only taken autos until the Scripten lynch. I theorized that, but it was never stated fact.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 03:49:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 03:54:29 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 16, 2014, 03:59:42 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2014, 05:32:28 pm
PFP
Post by: Jack A T on September 16, 2014, 10:05:36 pm
Toaster: You're missing Jack and Silthuri's claims, as they haven't posted yet.Urist Imiknorris: My action, a power transfer from TolyK to Tiruin, failed.
MBP: So, who do you suspect now?
TolyK: Did you not consider the standard player reaction to those who do last minute self-saving silliness?
I'm tired of us charging after every high-profile twit we see. That approach has gotten us absolutely nowhere, and our ever-growing line of dead twits (flabort, Varee, and secondary suspect Scripten) is town. And our major secondary suspects each day? High-profile twits like Varee or MBP, or people who made high-profile poor moves like Scripten.
We're at 10 players out of 17, and we're burning through townies. What we're doing is not working. We are failing.
Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
I can tell you mine: TheWetSheep.
Let's begin with his predecessor, Imp. I made a case against her back on day 3. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5603178#msg5603178) Essentially, although active and questioning broadly, she had had only two vote targets for the entire game. They, of course, were the ridiculously easy targets: Varee and flabort. The latter she voted for at the end of day 2, and did so in a half-hearted way. Her questioning, while looking good, didn't help find scum. And then there's one rather off-putting reason for her flabort vote:
Unfortunately, Imp disappeared before she could respond. TheWetSheep replaced her.Yes, this is Imp attacking flabort for saying he wanted to be alive long enough to learn who tried to kill him, using the post-game reveal to say that he'll learn anyway whether alive or dead. There were a lot of valid reasons to attack flabort. This is not among them. It is a contrived reason, dependent on an unrealistically literal reading of flabort's statement; it is dependent on an assumption that flabort had no interest in dealing with the person(s) who wanted him dead and cared only about learning who they were. The assumption is, of course, not supported by flabort's actions, including his repeated assertions that one of his reasons for attacking Nerjin was a belief that Nerjin was the daykiller.Yes, I was panicking too. Somewhat. You don't gather ~5 votes, get daykilled, and then get the only votes so far back on you and not panic about that; someone wants you dead, and that someone is very determined. I want to be alive long enough to learn who.That doesn't sound or feel like a new player playing Town. Furthermore he's made a claim of being very, very familiar with hammers. So he also knows he doesn't 'need to be alive' to learn anything; we learn everything when the game is over no matter when we die.
So, on Day 4, I vote TheWetSheep (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5635544#msg5635544) both for the Imp stuff and for poor play, including a bare-bones TolyK vote. His play does improve, but his reaction to my vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5636345#msg5636345) is quite the reaction:
I can't address your issues with Imp, but would you say I'm the lowest on content today? Many people haven't even voted, and TolyK's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5630358#msg5630358) and Nerjin's (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5633774#msg5633774) votes are similarly low-content and low-pressure. I realize this doesn't mean I'm less guilty of it, but why are you focusing on only me?He deflected, and did so badly. He focused on a single aspect of my case and shoved me at other targets. When I called him out on his deflection (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5650723#msg5650723), he claimed he was just pointing out a flaw in my argument. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5652832#msg5652832) My response:
He has yet to respond to my last attack.I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.
So, I ask again: why did you feel the need to deflect?
TheWetSheep's response to my vote was panicky deflection, and his predecessor spent her time coasting through the game with little in the way of suspicions. I believe TheWetSheep is most likely scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 16, 2014, 10:17:46 pm
Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.
PFP.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 10:35:48 pm
My picks don't really change. Tiruin is hiding stuff, i'm sure. Nerjin pardonning a 3rd party survivor get some red light flashing in my head. Tolyk using a 1 shot to save himself doesn't inspire me any confiance. At all. Furthermore, a full claim by everyone would be a good way to weed out the lairs arounds.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tiruin
I acknowledged it the first time you asked it, and then spoonfed you a second time
I HIGHLY suggest that you read what people are posting, miss. It's a good way to play a forums game on the internet.
Post by: Nerjin on September 16, 2014, 11:08:25 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 16, 2014, 11:10:03 pm
White knighting's one hell of a drug
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 11:27:41 pm
I can randomize people.
(I think I claimed this before?)
It's an infinite-use.
Perhaps it really was redirected at me?
In that case... Tiruin.
Because:
a) you're one of the people I said was likely town without inspecting.
b) you claimed to have miller, claimed the ability name, got it removed and claimed its removal; but the ability itself (what it does) was never checked by anyone! I (nor anyone) would inspect you because of that assumption!
c) there seems to be a long redirect from you to me, as Jack said.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 16, 2014, 11:45:46 pm
Now what I'm wondering is why all that would lead to you suspecting Tiruin, especially given that your case is that she looks town but you can't prove it.
Post by: TolyK on September 16, 2014, 11:58:42 pm
Why this makes me suspicious of Tiruin?
a) she did this to herself, via power or auto or whatnot. She hasn't claimed this, thus very suspicious.
b) someone else did it to her. Why would town redirect actions from her to me? Especially given I was a claimed cop at the time. Scum would have daykills and inspects hit me. So...
c) actions targeting her were randomized and thus hit me twice - chance very low (~5% without any serious calculation)
Either way with a or b it is suspicious. Along with the fact that I previously thought her town (4mask cyom syndrome).
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 01:39:56 am
So let's divide it into to posts. Now, and before net went bleh :I
Wait a second....
I can randomize people.
(I think I claimed this before?)
It's an infinite-use.
Perhaps it really was redirected at me?
In that case... Tiruin.
Because:
a) you're one of the people I said was likely town without inspecting.
b) you claimed to have miller, claimed the ability name, got it removed and claimed its removal; but the ability itself (what it does) was never checked by anyone! I (nor anyone) would inspect you because of that assumption!
c) there seems to be a long redirect from you to me, as Jack said.
None of these reasons make any sense :/
a. So...?
b. Persus13.
c. Wut. Long redirect?
~~~
And now.
a. What?
As in, what are you even talking about?
b. Were you not talking about something something Mastahcheese something something [connected with why you're poking at me]
and...what?
c. Huh, interesting.
Where did this idea come from?
c) actions targeting her were randomized and thus hit me twice - chance very low (~5% without any serious calculation)
Along with the fact that I previously thought her town (4mask cyom syndrome)....And here I was, thinking you actually had deeper insight than that in this game.
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 01:57:48 am
JackAnd you're doing nothing about it, @orange.
My picks don't really change. Tiruin is hiding stuff, i'm sure. Nerjin pardonning a 3rd party survivor get some red light flashing in my head. Tolyk using a 1 shot to save himself doesn't inspire me any confiance. At all. Furthermore, a full claim by everyone would be a good way to weed out the lairs arounds.No bully, plsSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Tiruin
I acknowledged it the first time you asked it, and then spoonfed you a second time
I HIGHLY suggest that you read what people are posting, miss. It's a good way to play a forums game on the internet.
@purple: ...No you didn't. :v
You only made a technicality. You 'technically' answered my question of 'what happened'.
You are subtly evading the minor details that make my question different.
MBP: You have either lied, or have been redirected. Has it explicitly been stated that Tiruin = [Has Redirect ability]?Did you answer this with a yes/no? No, you just requoted it.
Why aren't you jumping on my case--as I've never mentioned such a power in my possession in my fullclaim earlier?
Also could you rephrase or reword your last 2 post prior to this one please?
...I can't understand them in relation to Cheeetar's question.
Did you answer the purple at all? No. You didn't do anything.
You're not being that conducive for communication at all. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5664283#msg5664283) This doesn't even speak that you're 'all for people playing'.
All I asked was specific details in another format. You could just bother with it since you can take time to post one-sentence details.
This is your first post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5663589#msg5663589)
Between that and now--you aren't answering the purple point.
At all.
I mean instead of being useful, you take the time to snip at Nerjin for some reason.
What a fine image. Maybe you could imagine more of those fine pieces instead of buddying Tiruin. It's been what, 5 times now?This post is useless and not even relevant to scumhunting at all.
White knighting's one hell of a drug
I mean, you see Nerjin has a point. Do you talk about it? No.
Ugh.
Post by: TolyK on September 17, 2014, 03:36:09 am
B) Persus claimed removing the ability, knowing the name. He did not know what it did, only via your words. You did the mapping between the claimed and actual abilities - your actual ability was removed, due to it having the same name, so you claimed that your claimed ability was removed.
Cheese is the other game, no?
C) powers targeting you target me instead. Not sure if the other way works.
I'm saying you're scum because the redirect protected you from alignment inspects, kills, redirects, etc.
I'm not dead yet via NK because I'm either useless, incorrectly pinned someone as town, or I'm required to redirect stuff away from you.
Nobody has claimed any power like that, thus it's likely the job of the scum.
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 03:43:21 am
>_>
Now B: Yeah.
...I said that before in detail. :v
...and yeah Cheese is in the other game -_- Bluhh. Reword that to
Quote
b) someone else did it to her. Why would town redirect actions from her to me? Especially given I was a claimed cop at the time. Scum would have daykills and inspects hit me. So...> me remembering you talking about it before and my mind is fuzzy right now that I can't remember what was my idea back there x_x
Anyway.
C. I have no idea :^
I'm saying you're scum because the redirect protected you from alignment inspects, kills, redirects, etc.. . .?
I'm not dead yet via NK because I'm either useless, incorrectly pinned someone as town, or I'm required to redirect stuff away from you.
Nobody has claimed any power like that, thus it's likely the job of the scum.
You're saying I'm scum because...a redirect happened.
How would I even know any of that or have any say on that!?
And you're somehow blaming efficiency because you're alive?
...Err, news to you--you claimed investigator a long time ago :/ That's like painting a target on yourself (and at that time, maybe someway having an ace up your sleeve) but...blaming someone, now?
...And me, for some reason?
That's just poor form.
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 03:58:41 am
...Is what you're saying that 'Mr. Inspector says Tiruin is town, but did not inspect them'; hence due to your talk that I'm town, people won't suspect her, hence she's scum now?
Because that assumes a ton from everyone else.
A) since I said that you were town, you were less at risk of getting found out. I also said, a while back, something along the line of "I am not dead yet, so I must be mistaken in a townie".Also what relevance does the quotation marks give to your suspect list?
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2014, 08:38:02 am
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Tiruin, Nerjin,
Nerjin -
Silthuri -
Tiruin - TolyK,
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster -
TolyK - Mysteriousbluepuppet, Cheeetar, TheWetSheep, Urist Imiknorris,
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster, Silthuri,
6 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 71 hours from this post.)
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2014, 08:39:33 am
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 17, 2014, 11:00:57 am
I can tell you mine: TheWetSheep.Yes, I admit that I made the mistake of believing that I could address one part of your case individually, as a separate attack from the rest of it. I see now why that doesn't work in this instance. Again, the intention wasn't to deflect to those people.
He deflected, and did so badly. He focused on a single aspect of my case and shoved me at other targets. When I called him out on his deflection (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5650723#msg5650723), he claimed he was just pointing out a flaw in my argument. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5652832#msg5652832) My response:I was pointing out a flaw in your argument. I was not telling you to go vote those people.Yes, yes, the horrible flaw that was me going after you instead of Nerjin, TolyK, or a non-voter. The horrible flaw in my argument being that if much of my case was to be ignored and one single part was to be treated as my entire case, I should have been going after people you believed that single part of my case fit better than you.
So, I ask again: why did you feel the need to deflect?
I did not ignore the rest of your case, though. I answered the only part I could.
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 11:33:26 am
Wait a second.Do you forget what you said in this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5632729;topicseen#msg5632729)
I can randomize people.
(I think I claimed this before?)
It's an infinite-use.
Perhaps it really was redirected at me?
How does the question parse in relation to that idea with a vague yet direct association with Toaster?
It's like you're forgetting...your own role.
Post by: TolyK on September 17, 2014, 11:58:35 am
Oh and wow, I didn't realize that many people were voting me already. O.o
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2014, 12:01:51 pm
Tiruin, I did not remember whether I had claimed it at the time. Granted, I have a LOT of abilities on my phone list which I have or had at some point....Did you bother to sort your abilities in anyway differing this game from that other game?
Oh and wow, I didn't realize that many people were voting me already. O.o
Also...no queries towards your question-ers?
Also I'm waiting on my question, thanks. :)
@TolyK; @A:
...Is what you're saying that 'Mr. Inspector says Tiruin is town, but did not inspect them'; hence due to your talk that I'm town, people won't suspect her, hence she's scum now?
Because that assumes a ton from everyone else.A) since I said that you were town, you were less at risk of getting found out. I also said, a while back, something along the line of "I am not dead yet, so I must be mistaken in a townie".Also what relevance does the quotation marks give to your suspect list?
Post by: TolyK on September 17, 2014, 12:08:28 pm
They're in different files. I was talking solely about this game.
Post by: Silthuri on September 17, 2014, 05:00:58 pm
Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Well I don't know. I'm kind of bugged at MBP's refusal to explain virtually anything and simply re-quotes himself or repeats himself over and over again. TolyK... I'm not sure about. I suppose I'm a bit wary of Toaster because of all of his power and such.
Last night, I continued to do nothing. As I think I said before, my only night action is a one-shot and I'm not wasting it.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 17, 2014, 07:17:21 pm
There are 9 players left out of 17. If we assume there are 4 scum, we're at MYLO bar some extraodinary town play tonight, and given how Toaster is locking everyone down (but somehow letting scumkills through) I'm not sure we can do that. We need to do something different. The end of today marks the beginning of my midsemester break, so I should be able to look a lot more deeply into the game, but I'm going to ask everyone else to help if they can- Jack made a good point in sharing our secondary suspects.
Also, Webadict, would you please update the playerlist as to who is dead and not on the OP?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 17, 2014, 07:24:06 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 17, 2014, 07:36:45 pm
Okay, did you read the part where he's specifically asking about people who aren't TolyK or MBP? Do you have any reason at all on Toaster related to his play? What do you think he is?Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?
Well I don't know. I'm kind of bugged at MBP's refusal to explain virtually anything and simply re-quotes himself or repeats himself over and over again. TolyK... I'm not sure about. I suppose I'm a bit wary of Toaster because of all of his power and such.
Post by: Jack A T on September 17, 2014, 11:58:33 pm
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
Nerjin: Great, you're here. You're angry. Now would you mind answering my question: who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect?
Tiruin: That question about non-TolyK and non-MBP suspects is to you as well.
TheWetSheep: Now, on to more questions. First, when you gave your response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5636345#msg5636345), what was your intention in specifically pointing towards TolyK and Nerjin? Second, I would like to know who your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect is.
TolyK: Your case against Tiruin makes no sense. Please summarize it clearly.
I have a one-shot kill, I can now check role name/ability claims, and I can randomize (that turns into a redirect with Toaster's help.I'm guessing you were referring to Toaster's ability to control random events, yes?
Silthuri: Well, this is certainly useful. Since the start of day 2, the only votes you've made have been against high-profile easy targets (and you didn't even vote yesterday), and you've done little to help town find scum. As your response to a question asking for your top non-MBP, non-TolyK suspect, the best answer you could give is the claimed survivor for being too powerful. Granted, you've been busy, but this still isn't great. I'd like to see your full reads, please.Everyone: Who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect and why?Well I don't know. I'm kind of bugged at MBP's refusal to explain virtually anything and simply re-quotes himself or repeats himself over and over again. TolyK... I'm not sure about. I suppose I'm a bit wary of Toaster because of all of his power and such.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 12:02:54 am
Tiruin: That question about non-TolyK and non-MBP suspects is to you as well.Other than them, not very well 'top''d. I've trouble in sighting on a nominal scale in this instance.
I mean, on one hand, they're doing quite well in the fields of honesty--if it did not include...clarity. However I really feel like there's a pattern the scumteam is using--though of what, I've no idea :I
I love my intuition and all, but there's also calibrations which make it hard to understand. It's somehow always right, but that's only when I understand it in non-objective terms. Gwuh.
Will do a reread after my next exam for today though.
Though I can tell who aren't my suspects.
Nerjin
...and I saved the rest in my notes -_- Hold on. APologies for that.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 12:10:33 am
It's like they are fucking coinjoined twins.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 12:12:19 am
It's like this is the first time I'm frustrated to this level.
::)
Yeah, apologies ahead of time for this post. But it's pretty annoying how you DO NOTHING OR EVEN TALK TO US AT ALL, ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS OR EVEN IN THE LEAST COMMUNICATE WITH US.
Just fling more mud :s
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 12:36:40 am
No, you cannot.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 12:59:02 am
/me punches the wall and rests her head in the depression.
Yeah. Yeah I'm buddying Nerjin. Yeah...that's what I do. Buddy Nerjin...And he's standing up for me regardless of your statements. Yes.
That's a thing.
Mhmm.
Very nice thing it is. We're buddying to the high-heavens and beyond the western sea.
We are buddy buddies.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 12:59:55 am
But can you deny that you are blatantly buddying Nerjin, and him the same?I like how you never reply to even communicating with us. And yet do NOTHING about it.
No, you cannot.
Or, y'know, talk to us.
It's like you're being deliberately obfuscatory.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 08:45:06 am
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
Another third party. Serial killer/mafia-ally? Definitely not mafia because of the kill he took from night 3 (and threat of being lynched day 4 for not blocking all the kills), but I'm not buying a survivor this actively influencing the game- kills are getting through and he has nothing to say about it (while still blocking mine and others actions.)
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 09:03:49 am
Post by: TolyK on September 18, 2014, 09:30:51 am
Am I logically fucked up, or are you?
<has post written up on phone about Tiruin case that he can't access right now>
Post by: Toaster on September 18, 2014, 09:32:08 am
Toaster. He's been taking an incredibly active role in the game for a supposedly survival oriented third party, and I still don't entirely believe him about Shakerag/Persus13's autos. One of them could be true, but both of them being true just seems strange.Cheeetar: What do you believe Toaster is, if not a survivor? Why?
Another third party. Serial killer/mafia-ally? Definitely not mafia because of the kill he took from night 3 (and threat of being lynched day 4 for not blocking all the kills), but I'm not buying a survivor this actively influencing the game- kills are getting through and he has nothing to say about it (while still blocking mine and others actions.)
Would you rather I just sit back and watch?
Post by: Nerjin on September 18, 2014, 12:44:23 pm
Nerjin: Great, you're here. You're angry. Now would you mind answering my question: who is your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect?
Cheetar. He seems to be attempting to lead the town by the nose and given the way he's acted in some situations I'm starting to think he might not be town. Still, that's only a scum-lean.
Post by: Nerjin on September 18, 2014, 12:49:15 pm
Man, am i the only one seeing all that blatant Nerjin-Tiruin buddying?
It's like they are fucking coinjoined twins.
You are the only one seeing it because you're the only person who doesn't realize that your case is the worst possible case that could ever be made. Honestly, I'm surprised you're still trying. At first I thought you were trolling or something. Now I'm starting to think that you're actually this poor of a player.
But can you deny that you are blatantly buddying Nerjin, and him the same?
No, you cannot.
Care to explain why she can't? I'm not buddying her. I'm getting on you for a poor case. Everyone else has done it as well. So apparently everyone is buddying Tiruin.
Well i can give you a pity FoS, Tiruin. Those things are free. If you want a vote you'll have to wait after Tolyk, barring a upset during rolecall.
Aw, how kind of you to put off being a moron for a little while to pursure TolyK. You sure are nice.
Post by: TolyK on September 18, 2014, 02:04:27 pm
We're playing to enjoy the game. Please be civil.
I still can't post my case on Tiruin because baaah time. :(
Post by: Toaster on September 18, 2014, 02:41:26 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 18, 2014, 06:55:31 pm
TheWetSheep: Now, on to more questions. First, when you gave your response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5636345#msg5636345), what was your intention in specifically pointing towards TolyK and Nerjin? Second, I would like to know who your top non-TolyK, non-MBP suspect is.When I looked back through the thread those were the people I found with lackluster cases.
I'm beginning to suspect Silthuri - she's been unremarkable the whole game, to the point of me forgetting she's even playing. Her first and only post today is also extremely short and only contains a half-claim and an attack that parrots what other people have said.
MBP: You still haven't answered a question that you've been asked at least three times. Why did you not attack Tiruin when you had apparently contradictory claims?
Toaster: We had an accidental half-massclaim, so yeah, this late in the game it might be a good idea. I've already claimed my entire role, and the last two nights I've been blocked.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 07:39:18 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because Tiruin can't fucking read my posts doesn't mean those posts exist. I re-read and said it was a fucking Randomise days ago. Confusion between target is randomised and randomise target. It's fucking insulting. Between half the game being invisible and the other not even fuckign bothering, i'm fuckign mad.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:08:30 pm
WetsheepHave you bothered through your fuckign madness to see me QUESTIONING your logic on seeing my 'Randomize'?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because Tiruin can't fucking read my posts doesn't mean those posts exist. I re-read and said it was a fucking Randomise days ago. Confusion between target is randomised and randomise target. It's fucking insulting. Between half the game being invisible and the other not even fuckign bothering, i'm fuckign mad.
I mean you acknowledged TolyK having it.
...Then what?
You just stand by there doing nothing but going D:< and RAEG and OH FUCK THIS.
>_>
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 08:11:23 pm
Quote
I mean you acknowledged TolyK having it.and god damn emoticon. This isn't fuckign MSN be clear what your ''questions'' are.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:15:28 pm
Because its annoying dealing with your attitude, honestly. :-\
Do I have to highlight what you're missing? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5666287#msg5666287) You could do with a lot of anger management. It's seriously clouding your perception. Also, in the link, second paragraph, @purple.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 18, 2014, 08:39:37 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:42:08 pm
i can't understand what the fuck you are talking about. All i see is shit like is stupid falseties likeAlso I've no idea about MSN.QuoteI mean you acknowledged TolyK having it.and god damn emoticon. This isn't fuckign MSN be clear what your ''questions'' are.
Anyway, that note on TolyK?
Represented here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5663589#msg5663589) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5666000#msg5666000) but you don't bother to comment on the events happening right now. Unless I take your "My picks don't really change. Tiruin is hiding stuff, i'm sure." in the latest link to be your answer regarding you seeing my 'Randomize' and TolyK claiming it--then I'd say you're really lacking in essence of scumhunting or posting.
Unless you consider in your post here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5663589#msg5663589) "Tolyk claimed it now, anyway" being an 'answer', yeah. It's a very technical way of saying you answered, but it doesn't detail ANYTHING ELSE but you acknowledging it.
And then you rage and swear and generally cause a ruckus as to me 'missing' your answer. Suggestion: Could you bother with quoting and linking that 'answer' or whatever so we don't go into this mess?
I tire of listening and reading you swearing so much. Emphasis on the swearing. It's a ton of useless added words to express how frustrated you are. So I clarify--what your case is, and what your stance is, is not clear at all.
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:50:20 pm
WetsheepAnd PS, to poke your anger.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because Tiruin can't fucking read my posts doesn't mean those posts exist. I re-read and said it was a fucking Randomise days ago. Confusion between target is randomised and randomise target. It's fucking insulting. Between half the game being invisible and the other not even fuckign bothering, i'm fuckign mad.
I have understood and realized that you saw a power I didn't have.
My questions lie along the parallel of: "What is your insight on that?"
In which I get nothing but you repeating what you saw. :-\ Yes, that's understood.
I'd at least like to talk to you for once, where you don't assume many things about me. For once.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 08:51:02 pm
Ask me a question. Do it, make it clear
I've drafted 6 different post saying i quit I'll get a 7th done if you don't get a fuckign question out of that bendy little head
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 08:51:44 pm
YOU POSTED A QUESTION
OH SHIT
IT'S HAPPENING
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 08:52:17 pm
Post by: webadict on September 18, 2014, 08:52:32 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Tiruin, Nerjin, Silthuri,
Nerjin -
Silthuri - Urist Imiknorris,
Tiruin - TolyK,
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster -
TolyK - Mysteriousbluepuppet, Cheeetar, TheWetSheep,
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster,
6 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 1 hours from this post.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:53:43 pm
You are a liar or i was redirected. Damn, that was hard. NEXT...I waited so long. Only to hear this.
This is quite the progress.
Why are you voting TolyK, again?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 08:55:00 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 08:57:23 pm
...Can we Extend this? I'm moving towards unvoting here.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 18, 2014, 09:01:52 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 09:09:45 pm
...Unvote.
I've thought long and hard about this. Separating attitude from scumminess. However, we're quite much at a predicament here.
Toaster locks down all those who are able, except for MBP.
MBP > Inspect = Sees Randomize [Rewrite], claimed by TolyK. Now, I say someone redirected MBP...for some reason, into not seeing my powers as they truly are, or there is something quite fishy in between.
Though I don't wish to vote TolyK, despite all his shenanigans. The query lies: Why would he claim?
Neither I or TolyK noted any auto or any other which is able to redirect.
...And I'm seriously waiting on your post on me, TolyK. :I
Follow-up question: Are you 100% sure that Toaster is a survivor? The raw data of your inspect on him states...what again?
...Or, y'know, I'll just balance the votes to end up in a no-lynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:24:49 pm
Another third party. Serial killer/mafia-ally? Definitely not mafia because of the kill he took from night 3 (and threat of being lynched day 4 for not blocking all the kills), but I'm not buying a survivor this actively influencing the game- kills are getting through and he has nothing to say about it (while still blocking mine and others actions.)
Would you rather I just sit back and watch?
I'd rather you give me 1 million dollars. That isn't very likely, unfortunately. Ultimately, what I read you as isn't related to how I want you to act- it's related to how you are acting. Typically I'd say that survivors would take a more passive role in the game, and you're being very active and putting yourself at far greater risk for seemingly no reason if you are a survivor. You're not playing to your claimed win condition, and that makes me think you're not a survivor.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:27:37 pm
...And I'm seriously waiting on your post on me, TolyK. :I
Follow-up question: Are you 100% sure that Toaster is a survivor? The raw data of your inspect on him states...what again?
...Or, y'know, I'll just balance the votes to end up in a no-lynch.
N1: Inspect Toaster, got "town" "neutral" (action happened twice), lost Filler ability
"Neutral" could mean a lot of things- I'm thinking it just means third party (which would fit with serial killer and mafia ally as well, unless mafia ally reveals as scum when alignment inspected.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 09:29:22 pm
Tiruin: Do you want a no lynch? I still want to lynch TolyK for his actions yesterday- it goes contrary to everything he'd been saying before, and he hasn't adequately explained his change of tune.It is...hard to explain.
One note are the connections formed. TolyK has claimed Toaster as Neutral--if TolyK was scum, then he'd be an identified threat or also known as an SK. Given that notice, he'd be believable as its currently related to Mr. IwillStealAutosButHaveNoAction survivorman.
In that sense, it seems Toaster's revive is spent (or...does it regenerate?), by which other than moving for a no lynch, I'd also agree on voting Toaster. If things get down to dirty, tomorrow will amount to his vulnerability.
"Neutral" could mean a lot of things- I'm thinking it just means third party (which would fit with serial killer and mafia ally as well, unless mafia ally reveals as scum when alignment inspected.)Did TolyK give details in specifics regarding this? I mean, with an inspection-ability like that, there'd at LEAST be some guide pertaining as to what he sees. The goal? The alignment?
mmph.
I need ~5 others to extend, and we've thirty minutes left :I
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:33:16 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:44:46 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 09:51:36 pm
...
Err, why? What's your insight on TolyK?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:52:36 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 09:55:32 pm
I'm very ambivalent towards that but...I mean--he singled out Toaster as Neutral! (and that thing with Flabort being the other {town} thing)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:56:14 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 09:56:42 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 09:59:38 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:00:10 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 10:00:26 pm
Well, it's TolyK...unless shenanigans happened.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:01:09 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 10:03:50 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:04:28 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 10:05:15 pm
...Yeah.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:05:52 pm
Unvote TolyK
Vote TolyK
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2014, 10:06:55 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:09:02 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 18, 2014, 10:21:08 pm
Post by: webadict on September 18, 2014, 10:22:30 pm
Of what, you might ask?
Paper.
And fan fiction. Or at least, you think it's fan fiction. It's all in Latin. What kind of sick stories are you writing, TolyK?
Oh, and he's innocent of everything else.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet - Nerjin, Silthuri,
Nerjin -
Silthuri - Urist Imiknorris,
Tiruin - TolyK,
TheWetSheep - Jack A T,
Toaster -
TolyK - Mysteriousbluepuppet, TheWetSheep, Tiruin, Cheeetar,
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster,
6 to Hammer. Day ends Thursday 9 PMish CST (Approximately -1 hours from this post.)
TolyK has been lynched!
TolyK was Ipsum Lorum (town).
It is now Night. Send in your actions. Be prepared.
Quote
TolyK
Town
Lorem Ipsum
You are Lorem Ipsum. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
(Auto) Filler Ability: If a player would steal one of your abilities, instead give them a dummy ability named Filler Ability. Every Cycle, they have a 50% chance to lose an ability while they have Filler Ability.
(Night) Target Rewrite [target]: You randomize the target.
(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.
Post by: TolyK on September 18, 2014, 11:11:09 pm
BUT WHY WOULDN'T YOU LET ME FINISH MY LATIN FANFIC?! WHYYYY?!
I only wanted to help. *sob*
I.e.
Bah.
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2014, 06:38:19 pm
Agreements can be heard as murmurs and nods.
"Good. Then, I'd like for the prosecution t--"
"HOLD IT!" shouts Nerjin, waving a piece of paper. "As you can see by the evidence, I'm President of these here premises."
Jack A T examines the documents quickly. "These are clearly written in crayon."
But Nerjin continues anyway. "So, here's the new rule. I pick one of you, and we get to invade your privacy. For America." Jack A T whispers something about Canada. And then he realizes that he's been slowly building a stomachache this whole time.
Needless to say, Jack A T is NOT one of the culprits.
Jack A T has been killed!
Jack A T was Kuypers v. Langley, 1992 CanLII 693 (BC SC) (town).
Nerjin has been Kinged!
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Nerjin, Cheeetar, TheWetSheep,
Cannot Vote - Toaster, Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Tiruin,
2 to Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 100+ hours from this post.)
It is now Day.
Quote
Jack A T
Town
Kuypers v. Langley, 1992 CanLII 693 (BC SC)
The Honorable, the Chief Justice of the Court of the BYOR 13 Game. All persons having business before the Honorable, the Supreme Court of the BYOR 13 Game, are admonished to draw near and give their attention, for the Court is now sitting.
(Day) OBJECTION!: To activate this action, you must quote a post in which you reply to a quoted vote with the phrase “OBJECTION!” That vote is removed, and the player may no longer vote for the rest of the Day. If, however, that post is replied to with “OBJECTION!” by the original author, then you lose your vote as well, and may no longer vote for the rest of the Day.
[REDACTED]
(1-Shot) Illegal Seizure [target]: Steal a named ability. If you do not provide a name that matches an ability exactly, you steal a random ability. If the player files the proper paperwork to the courts, the ability shall be returned with interest. But that requires filling out paperwork that can only be obtained from the judge.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:05:59 pm
Cheeetar, TWS: Why can you vote?
My suspicion remains on Silthuri, who cannot seem to suspect anyone except the obvious, and only has tiny vague doubts about the claimed third party (but only due to his powers).
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:09:10 pm
Heh. 2 to hammer. Let me guess, you'll be removing Toaster's revive again?
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2014, 07:11:15 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:20:59 pm
No offense, but fuck royalty
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:21:29 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:22:11 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2014, 07:23:27 pm
I'm done.
MysteriousBluePuppet
If this vote fails either he leaves or I do. I'm not playing with this prick any longer.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:24:36 pm
I'll be waiting for you.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:26:35 pm
Nerjin, you really aren't even pretending to be town. A town king would allow for some discussion before casting the vote. At the very least, they'd allow more than two other people to post.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:28:52 pm
I guess if town got some daykills now is the time. VIVA LA REVOLUTION kind of thing.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:29:50 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2014, 07:30:14 pm
Besides, you already think I'm scum so I don't really care how you view my actions.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:31:21 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:33:12 pm
Don't take us for idiots. You scum fellas made it trough. It's a god damn shame tho. I ad you as my #2 choice, why would fuckign anybody protect a 3rdparty.
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2014, 07:33:39 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2014, 07:36:04 pm
So... What exactly is your claim here? I get crowned and two others are also able to vote so I'm scum? I fail to see the line of reasoning.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:38:58 pm
Nerjin
I'm not urist, but i'd say that i'd heat my beaver fur hat if it wasn't the case.
It's a nice hat, i wouldn't eat it under normal circumstances.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:40:18 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 07:50:40 pm
By the way, I'll not be blocking anyone tonight.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 07:59:01 pm
Post by: Jack A T on September 19, 2014, 08:00:47 pm
Man i wish everyone was here. Why do all the cool kids go out and have lot's of fun and other stuff on fridays.MBP: I'm here!
I'm also dead.
Bah.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 08:03:00 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 08:14:17 pm
Sorry.
Post by: Toaster on September 19, 2014, 08:45:13 pm
PS I have Jack's A gives an ability to B ability; it works like he claims it.
But I think that's beyond the point now. Also beyond the point, I let everyone act last night. TolyK stuck me with Filler, which I told to leave me alone.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 08:46:06 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 08:48:06 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 08:48:34 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 19, 2014, 08:53:26 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 19, 2014, 08:54:16 pm
Then again, my gues sis that scum didn't claim since they were so close from Kingmakering.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 19, 2014, 10:49:48 pm
Spoiler: Roleclaim (click to show/hide)
There's my claim. Hope it explains some things. We're definitely at lylo now, so you'll excuse me if I don't immediately follow what you'd like me to do, Nerjin. Specifically, I'd like Tiruin to give her input here on who I should lynch, given my role.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 11:01:56 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 19, 2014, 11:06:16 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 19, 2014, 11:12:24 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 19, 2014, 11:33:40 pm
Night 2 was Varee to TolyK (failed.)
Night 3 was Toaster to Toaster (failed.)
Night 4 was Toaster to Toaster (failed.)
Night 5 was Toaster to Toaster (success! Whoooooo! That or I didn't receive my message from Webadict about my actions failing.)
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 05:34:13 pm
Well okay then. Anyways, I'm still for getting rid of Mysterious Blue Puppet for the same reasons as yesterday. Thoughts?Nerjin! (sorry for absence, was power outage-d)
I advocate you do not vote-kill MBP. He's been...in many ways, very inefficient, however either way, if he's scum--pick someone else. If he's town--pick someone else.
What I'm saying is that either way his alignment is, let his actions stay with him until post-game, wherein I believe his eyes will finally open against his stubbornness. Pretty much a better way to get him to realize and think, if ever he decides to play again.
Now, point on MBP--if Town, scum would use him as a pretty scapegoat given his...crude behavior, looking back, very few (other than you and I) have been pointedly direct with him (well, IO was dead :v). He's not a valid target, sire.
I'd really advise you to repick your vote.
...Also: My comment on the lynch (of TolyK).
:o
Something is messing with the lynch, in the least. Toaster: Why is the Auto not [REDACTED].
Next: Considering TOlyK's and my communication D1, it'd be REAL weird that the Filler Ability is an...Auto. And its predispositioned for stealing rather than anything else--I was the one who received that thing early in the game and...nobody is commenting on it for today?
Well i guess i owe apologies to Tiruin....For...what?
Sorry.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 05:41:03 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 05:45:32 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 05:47:34 pm
I'll ask again why there hasn't been a mass claim.People probably being lazy? :S
It somehow died in the earlier days when TolyK said 'no'.
...For some reason. Anyone collating the info? Because I'll do it if nobody else is able (no thanks to RL catastrophes happening).
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 06:48:21 pm
It would help.
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 06:56:07 pm
UI queried the other two who can vote, Nerjin prodded you and you reacted back like a jerk, earning his vote. Cheeetar's first post of the day (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5674759#msg5674759) is a full roleclaim, and presumably he can vote because he action'd last night, if considering Nerjin's Kingship is a result in the night.
TWS has to speak.
I don't get your thoughts, MBP. Realize that, in why I'm asking you, please.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 06:58:10 pm
Me, Nerjin, and TWS can vote today because Webadict said in the initial post of Day 6 that we were 'not voting' rather than 'unable to vote'.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 07:08:23 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 07:15:50 pm
As I'm extremely sure--given that somehow nobody is trying to implicate me, that his shown role is a lie, or has been tampered with.
...Because if not, then TolyK does a pretty fancy way of misinterpreting his 'auto' and how I've gotten it...early-game.
Either way its pretty interesting. There's no [REDACTION].
Me, Nerjin, and TWS can vote today because Webadict said in the initial post of Day 6 that we were 'not voting' rather than 'unable to vote'.Yeah...funny thing :v
You're connected due to a power-restriction. Now all it takes is TWS to swing by. And/or him to hammer :v
Also pertaining to yesterday, I was also watching the near-day end for any lolvotes to happen regarding the end.
Everyone: Opinion on TolyK's role.
Who hasn't fullclaimed (role & actions) by this point? We should be looking for whoever activated that thing to save TolyK's life on Day 4, because it wasn't TolyK.I'm trying to collate info from all pages back but if anyone else can do it--please do. Doing that in between-home clean up due to typhoon is pretty...hectic.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 07:18:01 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 07:22:36 pm
And no, my guess is that even with hammer you can still lose. Best guess would be the SK or a vig kill.
Let's be real here,we know you are scum. You can drop the masquerade.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 07:30:52 pm
At least three of these people (probably four) are scum:
Spoiler: Urist Imiknorris's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cheeetar's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: TheWetSheep's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Mysteriousbluepuppet's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Toaster's roleclaim (click to show/hide)
People whose roleclaims I can't find (please help): Silthuri, Nerjin
People whose roleclaims/whatever are severely lacking content: Toaster (update on your scavenged abilities, all the stuff you have?)
People who could stand to tell us who they targeted every night: Everyone but me!
Silthuri suspicion level: Coast to coast globetrotter.
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 07:32:35 pm
Yesterday...What makes Cheeetar scum?
And no, my guess is that even with hammer you can still lose. Best guess would be the SK or a vig kill.
Let's be real here,we know you are scum. You can drop the masquerade.
Also PFP still. Home cleanup is x_x
Also searching thru PMs.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 08:18:01 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 08:21:43 pm
And you're not suspicious of me at all because I can't vote? Regardless of past actions?
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 08:29:08 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 08:32:02 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 20, 2014, 08:33:20 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 20, 2014, 08:34:37 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 08:44:43 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 20, 2014, 08:46:40 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 08:49:54 pm
While I appreciate you guarding Tiruin: Why not guard the confirmed town, Jack A T?Jack was confirmed?
...
I protected Nerjin last night ._.
Post by: Toaster on September 20, 2014, 08:53:17 pm
Something is messing with the lynch, in the least. Toaster: Why is the Auto not [REDACTED].
Next: Considering TOlyK's and my communication D1, it'd be REAL weird that the Filler Ability is an...Auto. And its predispositioned for stealing rather than anything else--I was the one who received that thing early in the game and...nobody is commenting on it for today?
Maybe you should read TolyK's auto again. (Hint: His power trumped mine)
Cheeetar: The only thing I haven't claimed is my other starting auto; I am immune to auto abilities as long as I don't action. As such, I opted not to action last night, given that whole "totally interested in survival" thing.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 08:54:38 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 09:00:47 pm
TolyK (who was lynched day 5) claimed to have investigated Jack A T and received town. Neither of our two people with protects protected him. That's a bit frustrating to be honest :(....Damnit >_>
Tiruin:Something is messing with the lynch, in the least. Toaster: Why is the Auto not [REDACTED].
Next: Considering TOlyK's and my communication D1, it'd be REAL weird that the Filler Ability is an...Auto. And its predispositioned for stealing rather than anything else--I was the one who received that thing early in the game and...nobody is commenting on it for today?
Maybe you should read TolyK's auto again. (Hint: His power trumped mine)
Cheeetar: The only thing I haven't claimed is my other starting auto; I am immune to auto abilities as long as I don't action. As such, I opted not to action last night, given that whole "totally interested in survival" thing.
Quote
(Auto) Filler Ability: If a player would steal one of your abilities, instead give them a dummy ability named Filler Ability. Every Cycle, they have a 50% chance to lose an ability while they have Filler Ability.It has no mention of anything towards you or towards itself.
Also why isn't it REDACTED?
Also why isn't anyone poking me on ;stealing' TolyK's thingy here?
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 09:02:57 pm
I don't care what you think. He's scum. He has to be. No one would pursue such a shit case, have such shit play, and be such an all around unpleasant person to play with.What if he was Town, Nerjin?
Besides, you already think I'm scum so I don't really care how you view my actions.
Consider the idea if he was town? Where would your allegations be placed? :-\
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 20, 2014, 09:03:09 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 20, 2014, 09:26:45 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 20, 2014, 09:27:27 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 20, 2014, 09:38:03 pm
Hours later and I'm calmed down now. I still want that bastard dead though.
I will full-claim in the follow up post.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 20, 2014, 09:40:22 pm
Those things drive you up the wall.
Post by: Nerjin on September 20, 2014, 09:48:16 pm
This leads me to my second point... Martial Law. When things have become dire I may be forced to enact Martial Law causing myself to be the only player able to vote. It is for use only in dire situations obviously and I can't claim it until it has occurred. As we speak Enclave Soldiers have begun surrounding the area, waiting only for my orders. Or so I had thought. It would appear that some people still have the ability to vote and over-ride my decision.
Sweet sweet America, I have done all that I have done in an effort to better our situation. I only hope that you can forgive me if all goes wrong.
For Freedom. For America... For the Enclave.
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2014, 10:25:24 pm
Now I only have to finish the game. Hmph.
So what we're seeing is a day-action, and a presumable one-shot?
Post by: Nerjin on September 20, 2014, 10:26:28 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 20, 2014, 11:26:13 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 12:23:06 am
I think our best chance of nailing scum at the moment is voting for Silthuri. I'm not going to vote her just yet because we have more to discuss today, but... the whole coasting along and never making any significant arguments thing is irksome. Plus, we're not going after a 'high-profile twit' as Jack called it, because Silthuri's been pretty much inconspicuous.Why Silthuri, though, of all people?
Looking back at TolyK--I'm still lost on what Toaster's hinting on order and such (sorry Toaster ._. Please restate).
And how he actually shifted the lynch, seeing the roleflip.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 01:21:53 am
Silthuri because Jack was suspicious of her, and I'm so very hesitant to want to lynch somebody else.
Other reads:
One of my top suspects was Nerjin, due to how passionate he was being about this game, and that I didn't really agree (or disagree, largely) with some of the things he's been saying. His more detached moments are very clear and towny seeming, however, and I found myself very agreeable with him in his thoughts during the earlier parts of the game.
Mysteriousbluepuppet is too clueless and ineffectual (sorry! But you really have been missing a lot of things that seem evident to me) to be scum- he would have friends in scumchat to yell at him to do different things if he were scum.
I'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)
Toaster is Toaster. Whatever alignment he is, it's not scum, and right now we need him to kill the scum.
Urist, while forgetful, is fairly convincing as Town.
But wait:
TWS! Concerned that he'll be one of the people voting with me and Nerjin. Would very much like to see how he still has a vote- it wasn't anything in the role he's claimed, so he might have fakeclaimed earlier. Actually, he might be a good candidate for a lynch as well. Thoughts?
Post by: Silthuri on September 21, 2014, 01:17:45 pm
Anyway, fullclaim time.
I am Jack Sparrow. I am a survivor.
The one-shot I've spoken about before is the ability to steal the vote of one person permanently. I have not used this ability because I did not find a worthy target before the lockdown and haven't tried to use it since.
I also have another one-shot that allows me to gain as many votes as there are on me to use how I will. I obviously haven't used this because it hasn't been an issue.
I also have an auto that grants me two votes. I didn't use this ever because of the stuff it would have stirred up.
I may also revive once upon death. Again, never used because I haven't died.
My situation with Toaster: being a survivor myself, I'm suspicious of him. This is one of my main reasons for being very wary of him but I was hesitant to state this. I really don't like his horde of powers because it does scream SK to me. So my suspicions of Toaster stems quite a bit from my own role.
I'd like to hear TWS's reasons why he wasn't affected by Martial Law. Currently, he seems like a good candidate for the lynch. There's nothing in his role that would have protected him and no one thus far has claimed to have protected him. I would love to hear the explanation though.
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 01:43:17 pm
I'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
I am a survivor.
Quote from: Toaster
I'm a survivor, also I have no actions and steal autos(?)Err o_o
Not enough time currently (RL stuff) but I'm tracing vote patterns between you two--the latter was the first to come out than the former.
Poke at you though Sil :o
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?
I may also revive once upon death. Again, never used because I haven't died.That makes you and him. Oh huh.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 02:32:53 pm
Spoiler: train-of-thought rambling re:scumteam (click to show/hide)
I'm going to go compile the night action claims. I need to figure out what the hell I'm talking about.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 02:38:54 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 02:42:05 pm
Post by: Silthuri on September 21, 2014, 03:35:01 pm
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
I am willing to give the majority rule of my vote-stealing power. Just let me know who I should use it on and I'll target the person. Assuming Toaster allows me.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 05:19:48 pm
(note: Denoting Imp/TWS's claimed "positive effect"/"negative effect" as bless/curse)
N1:
4mask: Block Cheeetar (failed)
MBP: Rolecop 4mask (found Cute)
Tiruin: ??? flabort
Nerjin: !none
Imp: Bless Jack A T
Cheeetar: Redirect Varee to Cheeetar (failed)
Toaster: !none
Silthuri: !none
N2:
4mask Block NQT
MBP: Rolecop Toaster (found Lawless Scavenger)
Tiruin: ??? Cheeetar
Nerjin: !none
Imp: Curse Varee
Cheeetar: Redirect Varee to TolyK (failed)
Toaster: !none
Silthuri: !none
N3:
UI: Block Toaster
MBP: Rolecop Tiruin (failed)
Tiruin: Inspect/Protect? Nerjin/Irony? (Clarify please)
Nerjin: !none
TWS: Bless Irony (failed)
Cheeetar: Redirect Toaster to Toaster (failed)
Toaster: !none
Silthuri: !none
N4:
UI: Block Toaster
MBP: Rolecop Tiruin (redirected to TolyK) (found Target Rewrite)
Tiruin: ???
Nerjin: !none
TWS: ???
Cheeetar: Redirect Toaster to Toaster (failed)
Toaster: ???
Silthuri: !none
N5:
UI: Bodyguard Tiruin
MBP: ???
Tiruin: Protect Nerjin
Nerjin: Crown Self
TWS: ???
Cheeetar: Redirect Toaster to Toaster
Toaster: ???
Silthuri: !none
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 05:51:28 pm
Inspected tiruin. Again. Got
(Night) Fear [target]: If there are currently more than 13 players alive, the target is blocked. If there are less than 13 players alive, the target is protected. If there are exactly 13 players alive, the target is inspected.
Doesn't quite fit with what she said
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 06:02:32 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 06:18:34 pm
Oh hey, you finally hit me right! \o/
had to happen someday.
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 06:19:09 pm
But:Oh hey, you finally hit me right! \o/
had to happen someday.
Doesn't quite fit with what she said^ ???
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 06:20:13 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 06:24:43 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 06:32:54 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:10:10 pm
Nerjin, I think I know who I'd like to lynch at the end of Day 6. I'm going to ask you how much you trust me, and if you're around right now.
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
Cool. Why not counterclaim Toaster when he claimed survivor- if he's the SK, you're going to have to die for him to win. He's basically the biggest threat to you in the game.
I'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
Honestly really proud of how I played Day 1. Essentially I pushed the weakest case in the world against you, and once it inevitably failed everyone went out of it thinking that you were towny because of it. Worth the minor suspicion cast on me because of it.
Post by: Nerjin on September 21, 2014, 08:17:09 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:19:21 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:22:49 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 08:24:07 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:24:39 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 08:26:17 pm
Tyranny ain't cool, man.
Post by: Nerjin on September 21, 2014, 08:28:44 pm
But... You'll have to do a little more to convince me about Silthuri.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 21, 2014, 08:30:55 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:31:21 pm
Anyway.
You're town, I'm town, Tiruin is town. Toaster is not scum.
Three or four scum remain, and I don't think it's MBP simply because of how clueless he is. That leaves: TWS, UI, Silthuri. Of these three, I'm pretty sure Silthuri has been the most suspicious (coasting, late role counterclaim against somebody who is probably (?) a SK (scum's primary target at the moment.)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:32:12 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:33:31 pm
Post by: Silthuri on September 21, 2014, 08:43:05 pm
You could also be the SK--given the status currently. What makes Toaster an SK, regardless of your alignment?I understand why one might think I'm SK, but think about the differences between our roles. Toaster's is based on gathering power. Mine is based on simply staying alive. I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere that two survivors are unlikely in a game. But theory is not my thing. He might be another survivor. I don't know. This is just my thought process.
Cool. Why not counterclaim Toaster when he claimed survivor- if he's the SK, you're going to have to die for him to win. He's basically the biggest threat to you in the game.
I'd hoped that with his powers and such, town would get rid of him quickly. I don't do confrontations well so I hoped others would do it for me...
I'd also like to hammer Silthuri before she has the chance to react to this suspicion, seeing as she did claim vote-related abilities.Uh... revive? If this is LYLO, you're screwing yourself over because I'll just come back. I'd advice trying to lynch at least one scum before coming after me.
Also, why not give me a chance to defend myself?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:44:59 pm
I don't believe the revive claim, anyway. TolyK's was enough for this game.
Post by: Nerjin on September 21, 2014, 08:47:25 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:48:36 pm
Tiruin, Toaster, what are your thoughts?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 08:53:51 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:04:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Additionally, didn't Silthuri claim that his votesteal was a night action?
And furthermore, there's one more angle to think of, considering I didn't block Toaster last night:
webadict: Do doctors know if they stop a kill? Do would-be victims know if they're protected?
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 21, 2014, 09:05:25 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:08:09 pm
Besides, let's put it this way:
Silthuri is survivor, and Toaster is SK.
That leaves 6 people, 3 of whom I am pretty near 100% sure are town-aligned. This means, uh... you're scum, UI. Sorry to have to break it to you in such a way.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:08:29 pm
PPE: My bad, 4mask.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:09:24 pm
Why do you think Nerjin's town?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:10:30 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:14:18 pm
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2014, 09:15:54 pm
webadict: Do doctors know if they stop a kill? Do would-be victims know if they're protected?When have I ever volunteered free information?
Never. The answer is never. So, no. They are not, unless an ability would do so.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:16:01 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:20:04 pm
But Silthuri's claimed a revive. It'd be a waste of a mislynch for scum.
Also note that he's yet to jump on the chance to lynch you.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:22:01 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:24:28 pm
Also: Does this mean you'd be fine with a TWS lynch?
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 09:25:14 pm
I'm good for UI or Silthuri, to be honest. Might actually be better to go for UI if Silthuri actually does have one of the claimed abilities.Err...I'd recommend an extend because I'm seriously pondering the implications of many things on my side--stemming from one thing in question in my notes.
Tiruin, Toaster, what are your thoughts?
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 09:27:45 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:29:51 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:31:42 pm
As for why they wouldn't hammer, as I said: they're not revealing themselves in case town has a way to screw them. Hammering by themselves would either reveal themselves, or require far more activity on TWS's part, far more suddenly (also a detection risk), than he's shown. Note that TheWetSheep has made zero posts today.
Day doesn't end until Wednesday, but Extend anyway because I'm going to be busy Mon+Tue.
Post by: Silthuri on September 21, 2014, 09:37:09 pm
Additionally, didn't Silthuri claim that [her] votesteal was a night action?I did in a sort of indirect way. It is a night action.
Last night, I twiddled my thumbs. My only night action is a one-shot I've yet to use, meaning I've never taken a night action in this entire game.
The one-shot I've spoken about before is the ability to steal the vote of one person permanently. I have not used this ability because I did not find a worthy target before the lockdown and haven't tried to use it since.
Extend as well.
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 09:38:04 pm
Cheeetar
Imp -> TheWetSheep
Jiokuy -> Mysteriousbluepuppet
Nerjin
Silthuri
Tiruin
Toaster
Assume 3 scum, at best (because 4 right out considers either the SK being the only deterrent or in hilarious cases [considering the past BYORs], someone with either a NUKE//scum-wincon-stopper)
Now we've two claimed Survivors, a claimed Bro (to me o_O?)
Nerjin/MBP are who I believe are town. Orange - survivor dudes. Teal = Brother To I.
Considering this claimant list (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5676857#msg5676857)
...That's quite a short list, and considering 3 scum...well. Ergh, pressed for time here but will leave thoughts.
I'm good for UI or Silthuri, to be honest. Might actually be better to go for UI if Silthuri actually does have one of the claimed abilities.I'd rather thoughts be put into this. Also, a serious EXTEND.
Tiruin, Toaster, what are your thoughts?
Cuz Extend.
I will return in about 5 hours because ohgodsmyheart (figuratively)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2014, 09:41:10 pm
I think Nerjin and MBP are scum.
No way, no how. Nerjin put MBP at L-1 while MBP was busy looking as scummy as possible.
Post by: Toaster on September 21, 2014, 09:44:14 pm
I have to read all this and process it, but let me throw in two things:
1) I'm not a SK. I'm a survivor.
2) I claimed what I did the last two nights; no action.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:46:30 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 09:47:30 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 09:49:43 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2014, 10:00:56 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 21, 2014, 10:14:12 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 10:16:44 pm
Holy crap I have actual actions now!
<scripten's action>
Irony had a track, which means when combined with his 1-shot could track everyone one night. Not sure why he hadn't used it yet (or if so why he hadn't claimed it.)
So Toaster, why did you !none N5?
Cheetar:
The only one who'd hammer MBP would be you, and you'd have to give him time to make a defense (lest you put yourself in the firing line again for quickhammering), which would give Nerjin time to 'calm down' and unvote (like he did). Put on your tinfoil hats, boys, because it was all staged, just like the moon landing and 9/11.I think Nerjin and MBP are scum.
No way, no how. Nerjin put MBP at L-1 while MBP was busy looking as scummy as possible.
Post by: Toaster on September 21, 2014, 10:21:44 pm
Cheeetar: The only thing I haven't claimed is my other starting auto; I am immune to auto abilities as long as I don't action. As such, I opted not to action last night, given that whole "totally interested in survival" thing.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 21, 2014, 10:22:58 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 21, 2014, 10:36:30 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 22, 2014, 10:51:26 am
N5: Philanthropy Jack. I'm assuming it was Assist, as anything else would have protected him or shown up in his role.
Being blocked doesn't count as a role use for the purposes of Split Personality, so I could choose which action I used the last two nights.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 22, 2014, 02:56:48 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 22, 2014, 07:26:39 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2014, 07:34:10 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 22, 2014, 07:41:52 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 07:00:46 am
Silthuri
Toaster
Imp -> TheWetSheep
4maskwolf -> Urist Imiknorris
Nerjin
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Jiokuy -> Mysteriousbluepuppet
Right'o, bringing this sheet back up. We're under consensus assumption that there's at least 3 scum. There's obviously an SK given the presence of an ally (unless Shakerag has transcended Mafia), and we've got 2 survivor claims.
I've grouped the lower portion to whom I'd be more willing to believe (and MBP being town because u_u...I mean, if he's scum then-...unhh.) Cheeetar claimed a brother to me. I'm hanging on a tie in seeing town in UI/Nerjin, but given the scenario--there's at least 1 survivor (or...fakeclaiming, for some reason?) and 1 SK.
We've got a list of claims:
Cheeetar's link (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5676857#msg5676857) + Nerjin's Claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5677271#msg5677271) + Silthuri's Claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5678520#msg5678520)
We've also got an action listing
Urist Imiknorris' work. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5679104#msg5679104)
For posterity, I used this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5679168#msg5679168) (amorphous effect):
N1 - Flabort, due to how he was acting in the day prior to night.
N2 @ Cheeetar due to how he acted during the earlier day--and I was pressed for time so it was more a snap-block than anything else.
N3 - Nerjin (and not IronyOwl because the # of players during the night was lesser than 13) because Pardon + his activity in the days prior.
N4~N5, same target [same reasons], until the situation cuts into the list above.
Queries unfulfilled:
> Why was Toaster not double-killed given his resurrect thingy?
> It seems its a sure scum win--their only detriment is the SK's living existence. [ie 3 vs 2+1 Brother? Unsure if Brother = Treat same as the alignment the brother is attached to; 1 survivor and 1 SK]
> Our hopes lie in 3 people: Nerjin, Cheeetar and TWS.
> Silthuri has the power to steal a vote.
> Toaster has only autos, and IronyOwl's Track.
UI: Do you have any idea on what the Labrador God does? Also it seems you reverted this morning? o_O
Toaster: Full-auto claim once more?
Survivors: Which side are you siding on, sans the presence of the SK, at the moment?
Considering the stance at present, you both have threats on either side. Scum/SK, though you can win with the former by kicking townies. :v
Cheeet:
...Really...proud? :II'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
Honestly really proud of how I played Day 1. Essentially I pushed the weakest case in the world against you, and once it inevitably failed everyone went out of it thinking that you were towny because of it. Worth the minor suspicion cast on me because of it.
You were |---| thiiiiis close to being lynched. And you're proud? :V
I'm leaning for a hammer on TWS.
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 07:03:55 am
HAH, finally remembered what that was termed!
...I think those exams debilitated my innate thesaurus :I
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2014, 07:09:29 am
Cheeet:...Really...proud? :II'm not going to lynch Tiruin, because then I'd lose (or become town ally? Gonna PM Webadict about that, should have before >.>)And this had any effect on your demeanor towards me @D1: How?
Honestly really proud of how I played Day 1. Essentially I pushed the weakest case in the world against you, and once it inevitably failed everyone went out of it thinking that you were towny because of it. Worth the minor suspicion cast on me because of it.
You were |---| thiiiiis close to being lynched. And you're proud? :V
I'm leaning for a hammer on TWS.
I asked Wubba for confirmation- a brother wins if the person they're brother to wins, regardless of if I'm dead or alive at the time in which they win. Having you seen as 'most towny' was a pretty solid victory for me.
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 07:13:18 am
I'm most suspicious of Silthuri for the survivor counterclaim, and UI for his general conduct and 'forgetting' to protect the confirmed town, as well as replacing the generally shaky 4maskwolf. I'm definitely understanding TWS as the third member of their scumgroup though, especially due to the unexplained ability to vote.I've been checking ZU's vote/lurker tracker but it seems...stunted, somehow, at the moment?
It searches only...few posts of some, and others come up as blanks. o_o
So manual vote pattern checking is fun.
I wonder how NQT is doing in deadchat.
Webadict: Did you forget to create a deadchat this game? :I
Post by: webadict on September 23, 2014, 07:56:26 am
Webadict: Did you forget to create a deadchat this game? :IIs this a serious question?
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 08:06:27 am
._.
Yeah sorry. :-X
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 23, 2014, 09:11:10 am
Didn't he mention he had 1 auto he would not talk about ? Could be a deal like get X numer of ability, and you get a kill or something.
In any case, 2 survivors is a no go. One of them is likely lying
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2014, 09:18:36 am
I wonder how NQT is doing in deadchat.Just peachy, Tiru-chan.
I've been checking ZU's vote/lurker tracker but it seems...stunted, somehow, at the moment?Pro-tip: always check the 'clear DB first' box, otherwise it won't work.
It searches only...few posts of some, and others come up as blanks. o_o
So manual vote pattern checking is fun.
Post by: Nerjin on September 23, 2014, 10:03:27 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 23, 2014, 10:04:34 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2014, 10:46:56 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 23, 2014, 11:24:27 am
UI: Do you have any idea on what the Labrador God does? Also it seems you reverted this morning? o_ONo clue, and yesterday, respectively.
Cheeetar:
I'm most suspicious of Silthuri for the survivor counterclaim, and UI for his general conduct and 'forgetting' to protect the confirmed town, as well as replacing the generally shaky 4maskwolf. I'm definitely understanding TWS as the third member of their scumgroup though, especially due to the unexplained ability to vote.I still recommend lynching TWS. Also, your cases require support:
-What makes Silthuri's claim scummy, and what makes it scummy in a 'mafia' way instead of a 'third party' way?
-Define my general conduct. I'm also not the only one who forgot Jack was confirmed, but you actively don't care about that.
-Is there anything else about TWS that's scummy to you?
Post by: Toaster on September 23, 2014, 12:23:22 pm
The Player of BYOR13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply, Survivor
Starting game abilities:
(Auto) Whenever a player dies, I get one of their abilities and make it flip as [REDACTED]. Also, I die if I lose this ability.
(Auto) I am immune to autos if I don't action. I can't gain abilities except through the above ability.
I haven't taken a single action all game.
Ability gains:
D1 (Shakerag): (Auto) Does nothing, but is lost first if something makes me lose an ability.
D2 (Flabort): (Auto) His revive, as he claimed it.
N2 (NQT): (Auto) Can control random effects, to a point.
N2 (Persus): (Auto) Immunity to Shakerag
D3: (Auto) Panicked
D3 (Varee): (Auto) His building action, as claimed. I've always forced this to go to me, and I don't gain anything from it.
D4 (Scripten): (Night) Force egged players (primed by double-tap with his ability) to guard me. Useless since there aren't any (AFAIK)
N4 (IronyOwl): (Night) Track
D5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.
N5 (Jack): (Night) Player1 must give an ability to Player2.
I have gotten several things, but the only really useful things are the random control and the revive.
So who is scum? I think we can safely say that no more than one scum can currently vote, so among Nerjin, Cheeetar, and TheWetSheep no more than one is scum. That means among the rest:
Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Tiruin
...there are at least two scum. Noteworthy is that two of these are unaffected by Panicked. MBP has been confirmed to be at least acting in a non-Mafiakill fashion. Silthuri... possibly SK, possibly Survivor.
My gut's telling me UI and Tiruin, but I don't have much to back it up besides the above-written process of elimination.
What of the other three? Nerjin was awfully jumpy to vote MBP in such a tight-hammer situation, but I'm really not sure what to make of that. Cheeetar had his quickhammer of Shakerag, but I don't consider that strong evidence either way.
Ehhhhh it's probably TWS; though his *claimed* action pattern doesn't really match with a likely scum one, how many of those actions of his can be verified?
Calling it now: scum is TWS, Tiruin, and UI.
Note to Tiruin: Given that I neither have a vote nor do I have a dog in this fight (reminder: look at my alignment) no, I'm not going to go into detail on why I think you're scum. It's a cross between gut and process of elimination.
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 04:02:23 pm
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Are you forgetting your alignment or...?
Because the SK is still present.
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 04:09:49 pm
D5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
Given that your sole action is IO's Track, I find it weird that you aren't using it at all ever since you gained it.
And you've got Scripten's action too.
Primarily, I'm curious about why this is a valid occurrence (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5679822#msg5679822) when the only thing it does is belay autos from getting to you--next thing, it's strange. 'You' personally? Maybe not, but it helps quite well everyone else around you.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 23, 2014, 04:42:50 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 23, 2014, 05:33:53 pm
Calling it now: scum is TWS, Tiruin, and UI.Error on line 7: Cheeetar.align must equal Tiruin.align
...
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 05:56:30 pm
Cheeet; TWS = Lynch, and you act Toaster back to himself. How's that for you?
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 05:59:28 pm
N1 - No K
N2 - Both//Scum Doublekill(?)
N3 - Probably no SK Kill; Toaster dies here and Revives
N4 - No SK(?)
N5 - No SK(?)
Checking the OP links anyway.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 23, 2014, 06:40:03 pm
MBP:
That sounds like quite the cop out, considering you got a kill, targeted the guy that got killed, and have an ability that force you to switch..How do you want me to respond to this?
Cheeetar:
TWS: It's good to see that you actually tried to protect Jack last night. Who do you think the most scummy people are? Why do you have a vote?MBP has been acting with blatant-jester levels of scumminess for a lot of the game... but I don't actually think he's scum.
Nerjin's use of a kingmaker ability is suspect - he would have to be supremely confident in his own abilites over other peoples, and since he was willing to give scum an easy hammer on MBP based on emotion, that doesn't really add up.
One of the survivors is probably lying, and Toaster's been confirmed neutral. I don't feel like Toaster's actions line up with a SK's motive, so Silthuri looks like scum.
Cheeetar's claim dribbled out over a series of posts(starting here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5674759#msg5674759)), which he should know not to do by now.
UI's attack on Nerjin gave me a gut feeling of him being opportunistic scum jumping on an easy target, and his action claim last night was suspect.
Who do I think the scum are? 3 of: Silthuri, UI, Cheeetar, Nerjin. Cheeetar and Nerjin cannot both be scum, so I guess it must be Silthuri and UI and either one of them. The other is probably the SK, or it could be Toaster. If there's anything missing in my logic, tell me.
The urge to hammer you so we lose and you're proved wrong is so god damn strong, MBP. If I didn't want everyone else to lose because of how I felt about you, I would do it.How do you know lynching MBP would make you lose?
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Nerjin: Why did you decide to do Martial Law today? Could you have allowed others to vote if you had wanted to?
Post by: Toaster on September 23, 2014, 08:24:47 pm
Error on line 7: Cheeetar.align must equal Tiruin.align
While Cheeetar wins with Tiruin, that doesn't mean Cheeetar *knows* what Tiruin's alignment is. Therefore, they're not exactly equal.
Tiruin:
D5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
All I know is that it does. It's quite self-evident, given the description of the ability, what I got, and that TolyK is the sole person to not flip with a [REDACTED].
TWS:
Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
If I'm right that Tiruin is scum and Cheeetar is brothered to her, then the count would make sense.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 23, 2014, 08:45:00 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 23, 2014, 08:46:50 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2014, 08:53:08 pm
Cheeet; TWS = Lynch, and you act Toaster back to himself. How's that for you?
I redirected Toaster to himself last night, and it seemingly did nothing. Are you sure you'd like me to do it again this night?
-What makes Silthuri's claim scummy, and what makes it scummy in a 'mafia' way instead of a 'third party' way?
-Define my general conduct. I'm also not the only one who forgot Jack was confirmed, but you actively don't care about that.
-Is there anything else about TWS that's scummy to you?
Apart from what I already said:
-Silthuri's claim was scummy in that if she's survivor, she shoulda counterclaimed Toaster claiming it (because Toaster would almost definitely be scum/sk, and sk is pretty much the only alignment she can't win with.)
-Your general conduct has been pretty convincing, but I'm worried about your claimed night actions and Jack's suspicion of you.
-TWS has been generally one of the less active players recently, and also Jack was suspicious of him.
I'm honestly treading pretty lightly on solid material. I'll look through things and try to bring up some evidence if you'd like, but I'm trusting my brain when it's telling me 'you noted these people as suspicious in the past' for the most part.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 23, 2014, 08:55:56 pm
Maybe. Could be Cheeetar lying about his brotherhood (kinda low odds); do we have any independent confirmation of that?Nope.
So it's basically unanimous that TWS is scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 23, 2014, 08:58:50 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 23, 2014, 09:29:37 pm
-snip-No response to me? :(
Quote
Nerjin's use of a kingmaker ability is suspect - he would have to be supremely confident in his own abilites over other peoples, and since he was willing to give scum an easy hammer on MBP based on emotion, that doesn't really add up.Actually he leveled the idea and presented his stance on the moment--it is to be noted that it is a continuous and understandable stance, given Nerjin's outlook on MBP in the prior days.
However, narrow down reading to the orange part.
...It's like you're subtly saying both are town in that situation. o-o
And add in the factor of emotion--that's only purely known as a result and not the intent, so the conclusion of such and such 'adding up' is already flawed.
Quote
One of the survivors is probably lying, and Toaster's been confirmed neutral. I don't feel like Toaster's actions line up with a SK's motive, so Silthuri looks like scum.. . ."Probably?" What makes you say 'probably' instead of anything else? If 'probably', then is there any other suspect other than the survivors?
Note in orange: Check TolyK. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5672038#msg5672038)
Quote
(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.Is Neutral pertaining directly to Survivor? Nein!
I mean, really. I do vividly recall TolyK poking at that exact ideology back in the thread but I'm busy being alone and sad here.
...Also, care to expound the purple part? You feel such... alright. Why?
Quote
Cheeetar's claim dribbled out over a series of posts(starting here), which he should know not to do by now.T'would be weird to just claim BROTHAH! out of the blue, wouldn't it. Especially in this kind of situation--unless, by which I believe its a scum-move, he's using it as a ruse (because for some reason, nobody is contending me or making a serious case against me the whole game ._.) ...err, because of the parenthesis leading to a majority-conclusion to get him out of view.
But that's irrelevant at the moment as we're pretty much at straws--an idea to pull out for later if the foothold is secure, to use a metaphor.
I've my ideas on Cheeet using that tangent of thought but that'll only be relevant later, given the intensity of today.
Quote
UI's attack on Nerjin gave me a gut feeling of him being opportunistic scum jumping on an easy target, and his action claim last night was suspect.His attack on Nerjin...being which one again?
Also action claim being. . .?
Quote
UI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
Ya could do with appending and answering the invisible 'why' at the end of your sentences.
Quote
Who do I think the scum are? 3 of: Silthuri, UI, Cheeetar, Nerjin. Cheeetar and Nerjin cannot both be scum, so I guess it must be Silthuri and UI and either one of them. The other is probably the SK, or it could be Toaster. If there's anything missing in my logic, tell me.@Orange: Yes.
...How you got there.
I don't fully understand how that's a possibility. If so: then oh wow my feelings >_>Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
Toaster
Tiruin:...It's self-evident because you can see it, yourself. Err...yeah. :oD5 (TolyK): His ability trumps mine and stuck me with (Auto) Filller. Pointless since I can force it to not affect me.And how does it trump yours, Toaster?
All I know is that it does. It's quite self-evident, given the description of the ability, what I got, and that TolyK is the sole person to not flip with a [REDACTED].
Unless my semantics got messed up there, because knowing that is very different from 'yeah, it [just] does'.
Quote
TWS:Could you illustrate it for us?Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
If I'm right that Tiruin is scum and Cheeetar is brothered to her, then the count would make sense.
Post by: Toaster on September 23, 2014, 10:18:42 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:13:13 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:14:04 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 07:18:06 am
Do note if UI dies, something something Labrador God. :V And on random thought, TWS seems very much more likely due to his powers being retroactively random rather than a distinction of ability. In a convoluted way, that would work well in a scumteam given the wide array of power instead of a limited set-profile.
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 07:19:41 am
Mhmm!Cheeet; TWS = Lynch, and you act Toaster back to himself. How's that for you?
I redirected Toaster to himself last night, and it seemingly did nothing. Are you sure you'd like me to do it again this night?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:28:35 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 07:37:03 am
Why UI and why not TWS?...You missed this?
Also...because you were acting on him in the past days?
Of all people, it was all Toaster throughout...why?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 08:35:08 am
Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
Why UI and why not TWS?...You missed this?
Also...because you were acting on him in the past days?
Of all people, it was all Toaster throughout...why?
I thought he was the serial killer- so, redirecting him to himself stops him killing anybody, and also potentially makes him kill himself. But it succeeded last night, and nothing happened, so I'm not sure what to think.
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 08:50:46 am
...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
I thought he was the serial killer- so, redirecting him to himself stops him killing anybody, and also potentially makes him kill himself. But it succeeded last night, and nothing happened, so I'm not sure what to think.Oh.
...In that case, redirect whomever isn'y lynched and isn't a claimed survivor at the other.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 08:55:02 am
...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
If TWS were mafia, he'd have some people around to back him up- but no, it seems people are fine with TWS being lynched. You don't think the scum team would try to prevent such a thing happening, given that they only need one more mislynch to absolutely cement their win?
I thought he was the serial killer- so, redirecting him to himself stops him killing anybody, and also potentially makes him kill himself. But it succeeded last night, and nothing happened, so I'm not sure what to think.Oh.
...In that case, redirect whomever isn'y lynched and isn't a claimed survivor at the other.
Mmhmm.
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:03:12 am
Isn't the merit in how they back them up and not solely that there are people backing them up, at all?...Erm, how does that work?Why UI and why not TWS?
I'm more suspicious of UI because TWS doesn't have anybody defending him.
If TWS were mafia, he'd have some people around to back him up- but no, it seems people are fine with TWS being lynched. You don't think the scum team would try to prevent such a thing happening, given that they only need one more mislynch to absolutely cement their win?
Checking back, UI has been acting very well. A lot well more than TWS (who...hasn't acknowledged me yet other than the Toaster-thing).
Also if that's the case of TWS--then the list is pretty...err, clear-cut. You acknowledged the process of elimination--is UI a bigger threat than TWS, if we discard alignment for the moment?
Post by: Nerjin on September 24, 2014, 09:05:41 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:07:51 am
So it's basically unanimous that TWS is scum?
I dislike this. I dislike that Urist is building a consensus that TWS is scum (especially given that we don't all think he's scum), and it makes me feel as if Urist is scum- more of a mood feeling from his posts than a solid evidence feeling, I'm sorry.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:08:48 am
Is UI a bigger threat than TWS, if we discard alignment for the moment?
Assuming they're telling the truth about their roles, yes. He's claimed to not be blocked by Toaster's chance thing because of his changing from dog to puppy thingo.
Post by: Nerjin on September 24, 2014, 09:10:09 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:11:17 am
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 24, 2014, 09:12:21 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:18:29 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 24, 2014, 09:18:56 am
As for "Letting it lie" it is a phrase meaning "I will let this situation occur naturally without any direct intervention on my part in order to see what happens."
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 24, 2014, 09:23:03 am
Hell- I forgot that UI claimed to have a revive. Assuming he wasn't lying about that (and thus scum) he'll revive and we have a chance to block/redirect scum tonight.It's not a revive. It'll give me a new role and delay my death for a cycle.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:26:01 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:36:13 am
...It was an interrogative sentence. As in, a question rather than some kind of declarative build-up ._.So it's basically unanimous that TWS is scum?
I dislike this. I dislike that Urist is building a consensus that TWS is scum (especially given that we don't all think he's scum), and it makes me feel as if Urist is scum- more of a mood feeling from his posts than a solid evidence feeling, I'm sorry.
Hell- I forgot that UI claimed to have a revive. Assuming he wasn't lying about that (and thus scum) he'll revive and we have a chance to block/redirect scum tonight.The question is: Does he flip. :P
Quote
Once, as a night action, I can invoke All Dogs Go To Heaven. I become the Labrador Retriever God for a day and a night, after which I die. This ability is automatically triggered in the event of my death.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:48:54 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:51:46 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 10:13:31 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 10:18:25 am
...Cheeet, in what pretense makes you think UI >>>> TWS? People actively defending him?...and that's all?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:21:06 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:53:39 pm
No, actually, it's probably best to go for lynching Silthuri- scummier than both TWS and UI, inactive, and with a very unconvincing counterclaim.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 07:54:14 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 08:34:23 pm
My confidence is really dropping in you here :/
And by that, I mean you're really pushing a very unconvincing case.
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 08:39:30 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 08:44:20 pm
...You're seriously being wasteful, Cheeet?
My confidence is really dropping in you here :/
And by that, I mean you're really pushing a very unconvincing case.
Well, who do you think is most likely scum?
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 08:45:51 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 08:48:06 pm
SK'd be better (for me)(because its either you or her as the SK :V)
*nudge nudge*
Toaster: Scum....Seriously, my confidence in you is sinking :/ That's quite a brief explanation, huh....You're seriously being wasteful, Cheeet?
My confidence is really dropping in you here :/
And by that, I mean you're really pushing a very unconvincing case.
Well, who do you think is most likely scum?
Could you explain well how SIlthuri is scum, in this scenario? I'll answer that one later (when its particularly hinted in the past posts of mine)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 08:58:14 pm
I don't believe she's Survivor because she didn't counterclaim Toaster's initial claim of survivor (which she shoulda if she was survivor.)
I don't believe she's SK because she hasn't at all purused the Toaster with a revive- her explanation for this was 'she didn't do confrontations well'.
It leaves scum, and it fits nicely with UI being in a scumteam with her given his defence of her.
Consider: It's possible we're in a game with no survivor. Maybe they're both lying?
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:21:57 pm
Okay. Silthuri's been very inactive, last to claim, with a very poor claim. As I see it, there's three possibilities. Silthuri is SK, Scum, or Survivor.@_@
I don't believe she's Survivor because she didn't counterclaim Toaster's initial claim of survivor (which she shoulda if she was survivor.)
I don't believe she's SK because she hasn't at all purused the Toaster with a revive- her explanation for this was 'she didn't do confrontations well'.
It leaves scum, and it fits nicely with UI being in a scumteam with her given his defence of her.
Consider: It's possible we're in a game with no survivor. Maybe they're both lying?
If they're both lying, then Toaster is an obvious nyancat outsider.
But still: Why Silthuri, which would be strange to lean Survivor at this point in time than anyone else?
I mean, considering your erratic behavior this game, it's strange that out of the blue, you poke at Sil...She could have been having RL issues :^
I mean sure, checking the lurkertracker (which somehow WON'T let me get the permalink :I), she hasn't voted Toaster at all, and with understandable reason. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5679588;topicseen#msg5679588) ToasterScum is pretty >:I'ey when he's scum. If he's an SK, he'll play provocatively, yet still passively.
Now did you base any of your reasons on the above? Because MafSilthuri will not be a constant lurker with bad activity in my eyes, here.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:25:31 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:28:08 pm
It's a complex thing that would do well with no snap-decisions. I seriously advise you to not vote her at this moment in time and switch to the other targets.
No, actually, it's probably best to go for lynching Silthuri- scummier than both TWS and UI, inactive, and with a very unconvincing counterclaim.Because really. How is she scummier than them?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:30:45 pm
Tiruin: Would it help you if I were to vote for somebody else? You're going to have to tell me directly- at the moment, I'm trying to use my own judgement to spot scum, but if there's something you'd specifically like me to do I need to know.
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:36:42 pm
That risk is lessened when there's TWS/UI in the way, with me leaning heavily on the former than the latter (not because he's...cute dog...no >_>).
And looking at Sil's posts...err.
It...makes sense that she didn't claim, really. While I get that the only obstacle for a Survivor is a third-party (SK), so they can win with either side--fun fact: Doesn't look like Toaster's egging [proactively going with] against Sil either (or at least, as far as I'm watching him and his reads lately).
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:42:39 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 09:43:57 pm
Toaster, do you think Silthuri is the SK?(he'd not say himself if he was the SK :P but I jest)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 09:47:41 pm
What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
Things don't go so well for us- if she's the SK, likely we lose immediately. If she's survivor, well, we have the grace period as the Mafia try to wear down Toaster's lives, and the possibility of blocking/redirecting them. But I don't think she's either.
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 09:51:42 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 09:52:39 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 10:06:52 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 10:09:11 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 10:13:42 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 10:19:01 pm
PS: I think you forgot she has a one-shot Revive.What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
Things don't go so well for us- if she's the SK, likely we lose immediately. If she's survivor, well, we have the grace period as the Mafia try to wear down Toaster's lives, and the possibility of blocking/redirecting them. But I don't think she's either.
My thinking: Anybody with a one-shot daykill (and I am assuming it is one-shot because it hasn't been used since) would not have another one-shot (or at least not as powerful as the oneshots Tiruin and Nerjin have used, for example.)UI perhaps? He lacks any notice of one-shot but that's seemingly awkward to his other powers, admittedly.
Soooo. Cheeet. How far has my persuasion to you gone in poking Silthuri?
Post by: Toaster on September 24, 2014, 10:20:17 pm
PS: I think you forgot she has a one-shot Revive.What happens if we lynch Silthuri and she's an actual Survivor? :V Or worse, the SK? :^
Things don't go so well for us- if she's the SK, likely we lose immediately. If she's survivor, well, we have the grace period as the Mafia try to wear down Toaster's lives, and the possibility of blocking/redirecting them. But I don't think she's either.
She SAYS she has one.
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2014, 10:21:20 pm
Post by: webadict on September 24, 2014, 10:23:04 pm
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Silthuri - Cheeetar,
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
Urist Imiknorris -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Nerjin, TheWetSheep,
Cannot Vote - Toaster, Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Tiruin,
Day Extended.
2 to Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PMish CST (Approximately 47 hours from this post.)
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 10:31:33 pm
My thinking: Anybody with a one-shot daykill (and I am assuming it is one-shot because it hasn't been used since) would not have another one-shot (or at least not as powerful as the oneshots Tiruin and Nerjin have used, for example.)UI perhaps? He lacks any notice of one-shot but that's seemingly awkward to his other powers, admittedly.
Soooo. Cheeet. How far has my persuasion to you gone in poking Silthuri?
I'm not sure what you're asking- have you made me doubt myself? Yeah, pretty heavily. I'm not sure how I'm to poke Silthuri, though.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 24, 2014, 11:04:48 pm
Post by: Silthuri on September 25, 2014, 06:26:09 pm
Unvote Silthuri- wariness of vote being stolen, etc.
1. I can only actually steal your vote during the night and it has nothing to do with you voting me.
2. I'm not going to waste my other one-shot (which gives me more votes but doesn't steal from those voting me) to gain one single vote. It could easily be undone by the other two who are able to vote.
Nerjin: Is this vote situation permanent?
Post by: Nerjin on September 25, 2014, 06:27:18 pm
Post by: webadict on September 25, 2014, 08:20:40 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 25, 2014, 08:22:44 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2014, 08:35:29 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 25, 2014, 08:48:56 pm
Sheepy sheepI didn't see any questions addressed to me. What did you want me to respond to?-snip-No response to me? :(
Quote
I realize he suspected MBP earlier, but my point still stands. I can't imagine that he, as town, would willfully put himself in a situation where the fate of the town rests completely on him, then risk everything in a fit of anger. Even though he didn't end up being the only one with a vote, putting MBP at L-1 at lylo is throwing the game almost as much.QuoteNerjin's use of a kingmaker ability is suspect - he would have to be supremely confident in his own abilites over other peoples, and since he was willing to give scum an easy hammer on MBP based on emotion, that doesn't really add up.Actually he leveled the idea and presented his stance on the moment--it is to be noted that it is a continuous and understandable stance, given Nerjin's outlook on MBP in the prior days.
However, narrow down reading to the orange part.
...It's like you're subtly saying both are town in that situation. o-o
And add in the factor of emotion--that's only purely known as a result and not the intent, so the conclusion of such and such 'adding up' is already flawed.
I know I'm presuming that MBP is town, but I said that I was fairly certain he was earlier in the post. And I'm not saying both are town, I'm saying that a situation in which both are town doesn't make much sense.
Quote
I say probably because it's not 100% certain. I know he wasn't confirmed to be a survivor, and I'm not saying he was.QuoteOne of the survivors is probably lying, and Toaster's been confirmed neutral. I don't feel like Toaster's actions line up with a SK's motive, so Silthuri looks like scum.. . ."Probably?" What makes you say 'probably' instead of anything else? If 'probably', then is there any other suspect other than the survivors?
Note in orange: Check TolyK. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5672038#msg5672038)Quote(3-Shot, Night) Fill In The Blanks [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s alignment; or learn what action the target used during the Night; or both, and you can no longer use this ability.Is Neutral pertaining directly to Survivor? Nein!
I mean, really. I do vividly recall TolyK poking at that exact ideology back in the thread but I'm busy being alone and sad here.
...Also, care to expound the purple part? You feel such... alright. Why?
Toaster has been very open, forthcoming and willing to help town and hasn't used his probability control in underhanded ways(which would probably be quite easy and useful for him as an SK).
Quote
Going after Nerjin for his MBP attack at the beginning of the day.QuoteUI's attack on Nerjin gave me a gut feeling of him being opportunistic scum jumping on an easy target, and his action claim last night was suspect.His attack on Nerjin...being which one again?
Quote
Also action claim being. . .?Yeah, not guarding the confirmed town.QuoteUI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
Quote
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.QuoteWho do I think the scum are? 3 of: Silthuri, UI, Cheeetar, Nerjin. Cheeetar and Nerjin cannot both be scum, so I guess it must be Silthuri and UI and either one of them. The other is probably the SK, or it could be Toaster. If there's anything missing in my logic, tell me.@Orange: Yes.
...How you got there.
Quote
Even if they're half the town, they don't necessarily control the lynch today, and another of them could die to the SK in the night, making a town win possible with four scum.I don't fully understand how that's a possibility. If so: then oh wow my feelings >_>Also I'm assuming three scum instead of four because the game is still going on.Actually, since it's a kingmaker scenario with an SK around, it's possible for there to be four.
If Silthuri and UI are telling the truth, is lynching either of them pointless? If UI's scum and we're at lylo, won't we lose if he doesn't die when we lynch him? Same with Silthuri?
Hang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
Post by: Silthuri on September 25, 2014, 08:54:13 pm
Hang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
As far as I know, I'm still panicked. I was never notified about being free of it.
Post by: Tiruin on September 25, 2014, 09:06:24 pm
Wow, this extension has been super useful. No wonder everyone suggested it!Yes it is useful Mr Snark.
I dislike how you snark right now >_>
Oh, as if everyone ELSE can do something but suggest for an extend <_<
Nerjin, Tiruin- do you have any insights/changes of thought since you last posted? I haven't! Still probably gonna lynch Silthuri here.I gave my insight :<
Preferable: TWS is the lynch target; least priority being Toaster/Silthuri.
And you're somehow still sticking with Silthuri over the rest...
Post by: Tiruin on September 25, 2014, 09:14:30 pm
And I'm not under suspect because...?QuoteAlso action claim being. . .?Yeah, not guarding the confirmed town.QuoteUI: Bodyguard TiruinThis?
(I mean I'm sure you took the idea that I can guard too, right? And read it back there?)
What's your read on me, given the above posts of yours?
Quote
I realize he suspected MBP earlier, but my point still stands. I can't imagine that he, as town, would willfully put himself in a situation where the fate of the town rests completely on him, then risk everything in a fit of anger. Even though he didn't end up being the only one with a vote, putting MBP at L-1 at lylo is throwing the game almost as much....You do know it doesn't rest completely on him, right?
I know I'm presuming that MBP is town, but I said that I was fairly certain he was earlier in the post. And I'm not saying both are town, I'm saying that a situation in which both are town doesn't make much sense.
And this fit of anger--being you judging after the event has passed. During that event, his reads have matched his idea of MBP :V
Quote
I say probably because it's not 100% certain. I know he wasn't confirmed to be a survivor, and I'm not saying he was.Right...
Toaster has been very open, forthcoming and willing to help town and hasn't used his probability control in underhanded ways(which would probably be quite easy and useful for him as an SK).
What's your reads on everyone in particular?
Quote
Going after Nerjin for his MBP attack at the beginning of the day.So how is this an opportunistic scum feeling?
Quote
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.Nerjin
Cheeetar
Imp -> TheWetSheep
Tiruin
Toaster
Jiokuy -> Mysteriousbluepuppet
Silthuri
You've an interesting way of judging people, TWS. Given that last paragraph, you've found 4 innocents! Or non-scum :v
Leaving Silthuri and Toaster!
...Yeah. ::)
Check my bolded questions above to you.
Why is there brevity in your posts? :OHang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
As far as I know, I'm still panicked. I was never notified about being free of it.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2014, 09:41:47 pm
Toaster has been very open, forthcoming and willing to help town and hasn't used his probability control in underhanded ways(which would probably be quite easy and useful for him as an SK).
Well... not always 100% forthcoming- re: blocking everyone but MBP that one time, not wanting to tell us about his other auto.
Those people are scum for the reasons I gave above, and process of elimination. Out of the eight players, you, me, Toaster and MBP are not scum, so the scum are in the other four. A Cheeetar/Nerjin pair would have hammered for the win already, so they're not scum.
Wouldn't a scum Nerjin have hammered Urist when he was around for my vote on him - wouldn't a scum Cheeetar have hammered MBP when I was around for Nerjin's vote on him? So... do you think there's only 2 scum, or do you disagree with my/your combined thoughts?
If Silthuri and UI are telling the truth, is lynching either of them pointless? If UI's scum and we're at lylo, won't we lose if he doesn't die when we lynch him? Same with Silthuri?
If we assume they're scum, we should also assume they're lying about their roles - concealing daykills and such.
Hang on. Everyone: What happened with your panic?
It's still on me. Remembering it exists makes me a bit happier, because I just realised Silthuri can't activate her vote steal anyway!
Toaster: Block Silthuri's everything- if she's SK you want her lynched, and she has counterclaimed survivor- assuming you're telling the truth, you're most concerned with her death right now. I think she's scum, but you don't want to inadvertently save the SK do you?
Nerjin, Tiruin- do you have any insights/changes of thought since you last posted? I haven't! Still probably gonna lynch Silthuri here.I gave my insight :<
Preferable: TWS is the lynch target; least priority being Toaster/Silthuri.
And you're somehow still sticking with Silthuri over the rest...
TWS is less viable as a lynch target for me. There is one thing really niggling at me about TWS still, though, and that's that he has no idea of how he has a vote. Did somebody hide him or something?
Do we have a full roleclaim & action claim for all players yet?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2014, 09:42:36 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 25, 2014, 09:51:10 pm
Do we have a full roleclaim & action claim for all players yet?*Bloop* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5682561#msg5682561)
There's the links in that post :O
Now we don't have a vote pattern count yet, because ZU's lurkertracker seems grumpy at me to not be able to post a permanent link to it.
And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
What measures tips the scales in favor of one or the other, and what value do you put to it that makes them scummy?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 25, 2014, 10:00:06 pm
Do we have a full roleclaim & action claim for all players yet?*Bloop* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140896.msg5682561#msg5682561)
There's the links in that post :O
Now we don't have a vote pattern count yet, because ZU's lurkertracker seems grumpy at me to not be able to post a permanent link to it.
Cheers!
And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
What measures tips the scales in favor of one or the other, and what value do you put to it that makes them scummy?
As I see it, the only thing that distinguishes TWS from Silthuri or UI in terms of scumminess (they've all been pretty inactive) is that TWS is able to vote (claims to have no idea why). Whereas Silthuri has been inactive and also counterclaimed Toaster with a fairly unconvincing roleclaim.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 25, 2014, 10:19:46 pm
I haven't been able to give this game any attention recently. Will post tomorrow.
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 12:26:18 am
@_@And yes: I appreciate the insights, but I'm not convinced it's TWS, or that Silthuri isn't scummy.. . .Why again? I'm a tad bit forgetful :x
What measures tips the scales in favor of one or the other, and what value do you put to it that makes them scummy?
As I see it, the only thing that distinguishes TWS from Silthuri or UI in terms of scumminess (they've all been pretty inactive) is that TWS is able to vote (claims to have no idea why). Whereas Silthuri has been inactive and also counterclaimed Toaster with a fairly unconvincing roleclaim.
Will check up on that...
I mean, you have a clear idea why.
Nerjin has one (because.)
...
Tiruin:Other than those in my above post (Reads :I), what about this:Sheepy sheepI didn't see any questions addressed to me. What did you want me to respond to?-snip-No response to me? :(
Do you have any idea in your role, that pertains to resisting whatever Nerjin did?
Anyway back to Cheet.
..Silthuri doesn't look like she's counterclaiming at all--rather just claiming.
Also given your SilthuriScum idea, do you think her inactivity has anything at all to do with her being scum and her actions as scum?
...Like, anything that overrides the idea of lynching either UI or TWS first?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 01:35:42 am
Misc. thought: The only indication we have that Toaster's control of luck is an auto and not a normal ability (that is, he can choose to use it but if he does he can't use his other stuff) is Toaster himself.
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 01:42:44 am
Misc. thought: The only indication we have that Toaster's control of luck is an auto and not a normal ability (that is, he can choose to use it but if he does he can't use his other stuff) is Toaster himself.Everyone: Recount failures.
It's a counterclaim because I don't honestly think we'd have an endgame dominated by four third parties (two survivors, one sk, one brother) and 3 scum. That would leave only one town, and that's silly, so Silthuri claiming survivor is basically her claiming that Toaster isn't survivor. I think her inactivity is equally as scummy as UI & TWS's is- it's not specifically her being inactive that makes me think she's scummy (it makes me think of all of them as scummy), it's primarily her claim of survivor that singles her out as 'most scum'.And so you're valuing Silthuri OVER TWS/UI?
In the least, she has a higher 'chance' of being the SK than them, and we're facing a full house of scum here.
...And the above doesn't push forward an agenda of wanting Silthuri over UI/TWS, in any terms of 'scum = lynched'...
If UI is lynched, something something extra day + Labrador God activate comes into play.
TWS seems the best...really.
But I'll get back to ya after I actually nudge ZU's lurkertracker enough.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 02:20:54 am
Let's say, in a hypothetical situation, I knew Toaster's alignment for sure. If he were survivor or SK, it still wouldn't make me think Silthuri was more likely to be telling the truth/lying- I'd still think she was scum.
Misc. thought: The only indication we have that Toaster's control of luck is an auto and not a normal ability (that is, he can choose to use it but if he does he can't use his other stuff) is Toaster himself.Everyone: Recount failures.
Received a failure message every night but Night 5.
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 02:27:16 am
Whether or not they've claimed to have a revive should have nothing to do with whether or not I lynch them. If I lynch them, it is because I have decided they are the most scummy, and thus I believe they are scum and should not believe their roleclaims for one instant.So why not play it safer by targeting someone else? If Silthuri is scum, woo. We've uncovered a plot plan. If she's the SK, boo. Game Over. If she's a survivor: Bloop. There goes our weapon for the day.
Let's say, in a hypothetical situation, I knew Toaster's alignment for sure. If he were survivor or SK, it still wouldn't make me think Silthuri was more likely to be telling the truth/lying- I'd still think she was scum.
You believe they're scum? There are other targets--and I'd rather you poke at one that doesn't have a chance of being the SK.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 04:43:39 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 04:55:21 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 04:56:33 am
Nerjin, what is the exact phrasing of your kingmaker one-shot?
Everyone: Does anybody have a hide, or something that could have protected TWS from having his vote taken for Day 6?
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 05:02:08 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 05:06:50 am
Mmph.
or I'm forgetful ._.
PFP
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 26, 2014, 05:33:31 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 26, 2014, 09:03:08 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 09:16:06 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 11:20:04 am
Tiruin: The blocks on both me N1 and you N2 are consistent with Cheeetar acting both nights. The problem with that theory is that he's claimed both actions failed (which presumably means the auto would not apply).
Blocks go before redirects in the turn order anyway- there's no way for me to have been the cause of your block not working.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 26, 2014, 02:54:27 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 04:18:36 pm
Okay, so Night is soon. Wondering if i should continue on with the ability checking or keep myself safe.Check either TWS/UI.
Or you want, Check Sil :V
I don't have much time today so I'm going to place my vote on Urist. I'll explain why if I get the chance later.(why not TWS ._.)
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 26, 2014, 06:50:51 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 26, 2014, 07:55:20 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2014, 07:57:00 pm
Hammering Urist Imiknoriss to prevent shenanigans.*SHENANIGANS*
>_>
<_<
shenanigans
Sorry, just being silly.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 26, 2014, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2014, 08:38:14 pm
Post by: webadict on September 26, 2014, 10:08:08 pm
"I agree," follows Cheeetar.
"What the? I'm the Ki... President here!"
"Eh."
"Okay."
Urist Imiknorris just shrugs his shoulders, but he doesn't decide to empty the contents of his stomach... Which is kind of a fatal flaw in the whole structure of this witch hunt.
Hmm... We'll come up with something tomorrow, I guess.
Vote Count
------------------------
Cheeetar -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin -
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
Urist Imiknorris - Nerjin, Cheeetar,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - TheWetSheep,
Cannot Vote - Toaster, Silthuri, Urist Imiknorris, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Tiruin,
Urist Imiknorris has been lynched!
Urist Imiknorris has come back to life!
A sleeping god has awoken!
2 to Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PMish CST (Approximately -1 hours from this post.)
It is now Night. You have been warned.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 03:32:13 pm
Urist Imiknorris, the Labrador Retriever God, points a finger at TheWetSheep, stripping him of his powers. He looks confused, and stares puzzled at Silthuri, teeth sinking into her neck. "Uhhh..." she stammers. "I can explain?"
"It's too late for that," says Toaster. "We've caught you now. I could really use your powers anyhow..."
"AND STOP BITING ME ALREADY!"
TheWetSheep looks around, letting go off Silthuri. "You see, this is actually real--" and then TheWetSheep was engulfed in fire, screaming.
"Ha," says Mysteriousbluepuppet. "Burn." Then, he too was on fire. And so was everyone else. Except Urist Imiknorris, Toaster, Cheeetar, and Toaster.
Toaster's teeth suddenly grew larger, and a pirate's pistol formed in his hands. He spoke with an air of dignified brilliance. "This is probably the end for you three." Urist pointed out he was a god, but Toaster ignored him.
No, I think not.
Toaster looked around, confused. Cheeetar began scribbling faster and faster into a book Toaster hadn't quite seen before.
Urist Imiknorris never hit TheWetSheep.
Urist Imiknorris hit Toaster.
Steadily, the scene rewound faster and faster, until Urist Imiknorris was pointing at Toaster.
Urist Imiknorris began siphoning all the power out of Toaster. Toaster's body went from gaunt to skeletal. He collapsed, turning into a pile of dust, billowing into the air.
Nerjin was lying on the ground, bleeding. "I should've lynched you... so very long ago..." he whispers.
But, the fire engulfed Nerjin again.
"What the?" said Cheeetar. "But, I changed the past!"
Tiruin, who had been hiding in the corner, was crouched in the fetal position. "goawaygoawaygoaway" Tendrils of shadows erupted from her, flailing wildly up the wall. Tiruin turned to them, eyes darks and sad, and managed a "run"
The tendrils shot towards the rest of them. Silthuri was hit first, setting her on fire. TheWetSheep was next, letting out a piercing cry as he burst into flames.
Cheeetar turned towards Mysteriousbluepuppet. "I'm gonna need to borrow you."
"Piss off," says the Owlbear, growling slightly.
He starts writing. "I wasn't asking."
Mysteriousbluepuppet suddenly goes rigid, eyes focused on nothing in particular. He lets out a roar that shakes the very fabric of reality. The sun decides that his time is up.
"No!" Urist Imiknorris points a finger at Cheeetar, but disintegrates before he can do anything more.
Mysteriousbluepuppet looks at Cheeetar and charges, but a tendrils licks him, setting him aflame.
"Brother!" Tiruin shouts. "Run! They'll get you too!" But, she's too slow. A tendrils licks Cheeetar...
But it does nothing.
"Sister, I already know of your curse. It cannot harm me." Cheeetar yells back. She looks up at him, tears pooling in the corner of her eyes. "They can't?"
"No."
She wipes her eyes and smiles.
But they can hurt YOU.
A tendrils freezes in midair before slowing, steadily, jamming itself straight through Tiruin. Tiruin lets loose a scream as her body is consumed by fire.
Suddenly, webadict's mom was telling everyone to get out. The yelling and screaming had clearly gotten out of hand. Luckily, the cake was now finished, and even if multiple people had stolen some cake, Cheeetar got away scot-free.
Mysteriousbluepuppet has been killed.
Mysteriousbluepuppet was an Owlbear (sk).
Nerjin has been killed.
Nerjin was John Henry Eden (town).
Silthuri has been killed.
Silthuri was Jack Sparrow (sk).
TheWetSheep has been killed.
Toaster has been killed.
Toaster was The Player of BYOR13 to Whom the Rules Do Not Apply (sk).
Day Ended.
Urist Imiknorris has died.
Urist Imiknorris was the Labrador Retriever God (town).
TheWetSheep has died.
TheWetSheep was a Blue-Ringer Octopus (sk).
Night Ended.
Tiruin has been killed.
Tiruin was Triskaidekaphobia (town).
Cheeetar and Shakerag wins.
Cheeetar was the Narrator (sk).
Game Over.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 03:39:33 pm
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 03:40:00 pm
The
HELL
Just happened.
The role that was mine just did a whole bunch of weirdness.
I can't wait to see what the Labrador Retriever God role worked.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.This. So much this.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 03:40:17 pm
Spoiler: Roles (click to show/hide)
I have a couple of the actions, but not all of them. I'll get them later.
Deadchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/PaefBF748wD
Oh right.
And Shakerag won.
Post by: flabort on September 27, 2014, 03:40:24 pm
Dang, the game could have gone so much better for town if I had double KOd in the first day. :P
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 03:41:10 pm
Congrats, Cheeetar.You would probably have caused a lot more WIFOM too.
Dang, the game could have gone so much better for town if I had double KOd in the first day. :P
Post by: Persus13 on September 27, 2014, 03:52:00 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 04:01:13 pm
5 SKs? Seriosuly? Fucker.This.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.
SO WE WERE PLAYING AGAINST SK'S ALL ALONG!?
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 04:02:34 pm
Why does everyone assume I WON'T screw with you guys?5 SKs? Seriosuly? Fucker.This.
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.
SO WE WERE PLAYING AGAINST SK'S ALL ALONG!?
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 04:06:41 pm
We didn't even lynch ONE scum. Ever.
>:(
... :'(
Bloody technicalities and SK > Town. mphphmhmhmhhphmphmhhmff.
HAPAH. I HAVE FAILED YOU.
Forgive me...
...
/me also punches TolyK. And MBP.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 04:11:01 pm
Post by: Jack A T on September 27, 2014, 04:13:55 pm
Yay.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 04:14:45 pm
At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Tiruin killed Silthuri and Mysteriousbluepuppet.
Tiruin and Cheeetar and Mysteriousbluepuppet killed TheWetSheep.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 04:15:58 pm
Who killed Nerjin?At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Tiruin killed Silthuri and Mysteriousbluepuppet.
Tiruin and Cheeetar and Mysteriousbluepuppet killed TheWetSheep.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 04:16:22 pm
Mysteriousbluepuppet.Who killed Nerjin?At least you killed a bunch of SKs.Urist Imiknorris and Cheeetar killed Toaster.
Tiruin killed Silthuri and Mysteriousbluepuppet.
Tiruin and Cheeetar and Mysteriousbluepuppet killed TheWetSheep.
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 04:18:34 pm
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 04:18:54 pm
At least everyone I protected was town.*cough* Toaster *cough*
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 04:20:04 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 04:21:40 pm
See, I told you all Cheeetar was bad after his panicked quickhammer of Shakerag, but nooooooooo. We had to be all reasonable and stuff. :POther than 3 unreasonable people in a group, we had FIVE unreasonable people working alone.
...
I am exactly in the cringing position as described by flavor.
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 27, 2014, 04:44:50 pm
Also Toaster i refrained from kiling when you did not block me a few nights ago, to assuage suspicions. God dammit again.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 05:09:24 pm
Those night action reports I gave to all of you, after I think N2? Wuba made a mistake in sending those to me. He didn't realize he had and pm'd me shortly after I mentioned them to tell me I couldn't talk any more about them. That's why I clammed up about them.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 05:13:04 pm
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 05:35:31 pm
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 27, 2014, 06:20:14 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 06:23:09 pm
Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 06:30:55 pm
Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Except Shakerag because seriously, he always does this to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 06:35:24 pm
FTFY.Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Except Shakerag because seriously, fuck Shakerag's roles.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 06:39:27 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 06:42:00 pm
Also, if that was the case, why not make him a mafia-ally? The role you gave him actually gave him a high chance of winning.Alignments are random.Anyway, how was that game?I'd give you a cake but I ate it.
I think the thing that surprised me most is that I didn't end up as an SK.
Except Shakerag because seriously, he always does this to me.
Okay, maybe mafia-ally would be a little too mean. Fun for WIFOM, but little more. Maybe the brother of one of the sk's? So that they only win with a specific one.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 07:10:30 pm
Also, if that was the case, why not make him a mafia-ally? The role you gave him actually gave him a high chance of winning.Eh. I was expecting SKs to be lynched/killed more often.
Okay, maybe mafia-ally would be a little too mean. Fun for WIFOM, but little more. Maybe the brother of one of the sk's? So that they only win with a specific one.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 07:29:09 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 07:35:54 pm
Quote from: Flabort's Dead Chat
Cheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
Also- jesus, IronyOwl was correct about a lot.
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 07:47:51 pm
What an incredible game. So sorry for lying about being your brother, Tiruin! Would everybody call me an even bigger liar if I said that I suspected there was more than one SK (didn't suspect anything on this level, of course.) I didn't want to say that because then everyone would know one of them was me. Also: it is amazing that all the SKs survived until the end. Shakerag must have been so beside himself. This is going to be a great deadchat.Until Webadict spoiled it. In deadchat. :PQuote from: Flabort's Dead ChatCheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 08:13:29 pm
It's not very fun to hold the secret of the whole game while watching, especially when it's hilarious.What an incredible game. So sorry for lying about being your brother, Tiruin! Would everybody call me an even bigger liar if I said that I suspected there was more than one SK (didn't suspect anything on this level, of course.) I didn't want to say that because then everyone would know one of them was me. Also: it is amazing that all the SKs survived until the end. Shakerag must have been so beside himself. This is going to be a great deadchat.Until Webadict spoiled it. In deadchat. :PQuote from: Flabort's Dead ChatCheeetar is probably going to die today.
If he's the SK as expected, I'll be mighty surprised if he has any chance of winning.
Post by: flabort on September 27, 2014, 08:15:25 pm
Unless it's even more fun to keep that secret.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 08:16:14 pm
...yes.The overall fun of watching is certainly more hilarious than the sudden WTF moment at the end.
Unless it's even more fun to keep that secret.
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 08:18:58 pm
Agreed....yes.The overall fun of watching is certainly more hilarious than the sudden WTF moment at the end.
Unless it's even more fun to keep that secret.
Actually, I had an interesting question to pose: should players who replace out for whatever reason be allowed to read and post in the deadchat on the grounds that they say nothing of their role? They already have investment in the game and are effectively out of the game, much as dead players are.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 08:22:45 pm
Post by: Jack A T on September 27, 2014, 08:24:37 pm
If they have the time to be engaged in the game via deadchat, they can probably afford the time to post as an actual player. It'd be super cool if people could sign up at the start of the game as 'spectators' and never be able to post or have a role but would know what the deadchat and mafiachats etc. were.So, spoil specs? We tend to avoid those, as they leave less interested players in the replacement pool.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 08:26:59 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on September 27, 2014, 08:29:57 pm
If they have the time to be engaged in the game via deadchat, they can probably afford the time to post as an actual player. It'd be super cool if people could sign up at the start of the game as 'spectators' and never be able to post or have a role but would know what the deadchat and mafiachats etc. were.Sometimes people have to replace out for temporary reasons, such as overwhelming homework or surgery or whatnot, but are free later on. They need to replace out so that they don't just leave people hanging for a week or whatever, but when they get back they don't have anything to do, but have investment in the game.
Post by: notquitethere on September 27, 2014, 08:37:09 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on September 27, 2014, 09:36:48 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2014, 09:38:41 pm
Good game everyone.
Except Puppet. Fuck puppet.
In the end my enjoyment of this game ranks above The Great Temple. So that's kinda nice.
Post by: Toaster on September 27, 2014, 10:00:16 pm
So I didn't revive because I was doublekilled?
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 10:02:51 pm
Hahahaha. I underplayed my role, especially considering the setup, and especially since I got called out early on.No. You had all your abilities removed. Which kills you.
So I didn't revive because I was doublekilled?
Post by: Toaster on September 27, 2014, 10:20:24 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 27, 2014, 10:21:07 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 10:23:44 pm
I had an Auto--doomspeaker :I
I am rather annoyed right now. Like... Quite furious at how this went down. I'm not sure if it's the setup or just how it ended up happening. Bah... All I know is that I'm all played out on mafia for a while...I hug your face, and bop your nose, and say you're the best President ever and I had no regrets protecting you.
Good game everyone.
Except Puppet. Fuck puppet.
In the end my enjoyment of this game ranks above The Great Temple. So that's kinda nice.
Post by: Silthuri on September 27, 2014, 10:24:23 pm
I think this was pretty fun although I think I'm burned out of mafia right now as well.
Post by: 4maskedwolf on September 27, 2014, 10:24:46 pm
Waitaminute, how did Toaster lose if he didn't take an action?He was stripped of all of his powers. Thus, he lost his cheaty cheat cheat thing, which specifically stated that "if you lose this, you die"
I had an Auto--doomspeaker :I
...
Ah hell, I'm on the wrong account right now, aren't I?
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 10:28:29 pm
Huh, where was he stripped?Waitaminute, how did Toaster lose if he didn't take an action?He was stripped of all of his powers. Thus, he lost his cheaty cheat cheat thing, which specifically stated that "if you lose this, you die"
I had an Auto--doomspeaker :I
...
Ah hell, I'm on the wrong account right now, aren't I?
Also honestly, I believed Toaster was more SK than Sil :P I just said such because I presumed the Mafia would think along those lines and kill Toaster...somehow. Like a hitman.
But then there's no Mafia and we didn't get any closer to finding out the puzzle because lolSK
Also really, MBP. :-\
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 10:29:01 pm
EDIT: Which is to say I nullified TWS and Cheeetar redirected me to Toaster.
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 10:30:29 pm
So how did TWS go?
Quote
(Auto) Camouflage: If you do not action, all actions fail against you. If you use an action, players tracking you see nothing. You inspect as Town.
Also action list, Webbyweb >:I
Post by: 4maskedwolf on September 27, 2014, 10:31:08 pm
I did it with my godly night action.And Urist Imiknorris said "let Toaster be stripped" and Toaster was stripped. And Urist Imiknorris looked upon it and saw it was good.
:P
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 27, 2014, 10:32:59 pm
I did it with my godly night action.And Urist Imiknorris said "bark TWS bark bark" and Toaster was barked. AndUrist ImiknorrisCheeetar looked upon it and saw it was good.
:P
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 10:33:27 pm
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 10:47:12 pm
Oh.I only have up to Day 5 or something:
So how did TWS go?Quote(Auto) Camouflage: If you do not action, all actions fail against you. If you use an action, players tracking you see nothing. You inspect as Town.
Also action list, Webbyweb >:I
Quote from: Action List
Day 1
notquitethere Russian Roulettes flabort (Gambler’s Fallacy to Red)
flabort Spudradic Reproductions
flabort Vote-atos
Shakerag is Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Barrel Of Monkeys: This ability does nothing. However, if you lose an Auto ability, this is chosen automatically.
Night 1
flabort Latvian Dreams on Toaster
4maskwolf Plays With Cheeetar [Fails]
Scripten Stings Toaster
Scripten Stings flabort [Fails]
Tiruin Fears flabort [Fails]
Imp Bites Persus13
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Cheeetar [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes 4maskwolf
Cheeetar Narrate flabort Latvian Dream Nerjin {SCP-1689, the Bag of Infinite Potatoes} [Failed name]
Cheeetar Story Control Varee To TolyK
Varee Can We Fixes flabort {Redirected to TolyK}
Varee Builders Toaster {Redirected to TolyK}
Persus13 Nerfs Tiruin
notquitethere Antes Up flabort (Gambler’s Fallacy Vote-ato) [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements TolyK to Tiruin {Filler Ability activates}
IronyOwl Tails Jack A T
TolyK Fills In The Blanks Toaster (alignment) {Doubled to flabort}
Toaster Nones
Nerjin Nones
Silthuri Nones
TolyK receives “Inspect successful. Target is Town.
Inspect successful. Target is Neutral.
You have gained an ability.
(1-Shot, Day) Typographic Error [target]: Remove any number of votes from yourself. Place these votes on the target.”
Tiruin receives “You have lost an ability.
(Auto) Unlucky: You inspect as Mafia.
You have gained an ability.
(Auto) Filler Ability: Every Cycle, you have a 50% chance to lose an ability while you have Filler Ability.”
IronyOwl receives “Target targeted Tiruin and TolyK.”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “(Auto) Cute: You’re so adorable, players that target you with kill actions fail the first time.”
Day 2
flabort Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Spudradic Reproduction: If you have not been killed within the past 2 Cycles, you Revive if killed.
Night 2
Persus13 is Blocked [Night 1]
Persus13 dies from Bite [Night 1]
Cheeetar Story Controls Varee to TolyK
Cheeetar Narrates Tiruin [Thought] to inspect TolyK [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs notquitethere
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Toaster [Lawless Scavenger]
4maskwolf Plays With notquitethere
notquitethere Ante Ups Mysteriousbluepuppet [Blocked] {Oddly enough, not by Mysteriousbluepuppet!}
Scripten Stings Persus13 [Twice]
Imp Bites Toaster
Persus13 Nerfs Nerjin [Blocked]
Varee Build on notquitethere [Redirected to TolyK]
Varee Can We Fixes TolyK
Tiruin Fears Cheeetar [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements Varee to TolyK {Haha, man, everyone’s giving TolyK everything}
TolyK Fills In The Blanks notquitethere [Alignment]
IronyOwl Tails Varee
Tiruin Filler Abilities [Loses Filler Ability] {Haha}
Toaster Nones
Silthuri Nones
Nerjin Nones
notquitethere dies
Persus13 dies
Toaster gains Gambler’s Fallacy and Shakerag Immunity
Cheeetar, Tiruin Failed
notquitethere, Persus13 Blocked
4maskwolf Grows Up
TolyK gains (2-Shot, Night) All The Facts [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s role name; learn the one of the target’s actions; learn the target’s targets during the Night; OR choose two of the previous AND you are no longer able to use other actions. The second time you use this, this action cannot fail or be blocked, redirect, or randomized, but you die at the end of the following Day.
4maskwolf receives “Your role has changed.
Your role has changed.
4maskwolf
Town
Labrador Retriever Dog
You are a Labrador Retriever Dog. Good job making it to Day 3! That’s a good boy!
(Auto) Circle Of Life: Once per Phase before you action, you may switch between Labrador Retriever Puppy and Labrador Retriever Dog.
(Night) [target]’s Best Friend: You guard the target. If the target is targeted by a kill action, you become the new target.
(1-Shot, Night) All Dogs Go To Heaven: You become the Labrador Retriever God for one Cycle. Afterwards, you die. This ability automatically activates when you die.”
IronyOwl receives “Target actioned TolyK”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “Target has (Auto) Lawless Scavenger: Pickings are slim for those that don’t follow the rules. Each time a player dies, you scavenge an ability, removing it from the dead player and [REDACTING] the ability. If this ability is removed, you start following the rules. But, mostly, you die.“
IronyOwl receives “Target actioned TolyK”
Mysteriousbluepuppet receives “Target has (Auto) Lawless Scavenger: Pickings are slim for those that don’t follow the rules. Each time a player dies, you scavenge an ability, removing it from the dead player and [REDACTING] the ability. If this ability is removed, you start following the rules. But, mostly, you die.”
Tiruin receives “You have lost an ability.
(Auto) Filler Ability: Every Cycle, you have a 50% chance to lose an ability while you have Filler Ability.”
Toaster receives “You have gained 2 abilities.
(Auto) Gambler’s Fallacy: You tell Luck what’s what. Any abilities with random factors can be selected any way you want. Yes. ANY.
(Auto) Shakerag Immunity: We felt Shakerag was too powerful, so we changed the way Shakerag works. Shakerag can no longer action you. Ever. Also, if Shakerag is ever voting for you, you cannot be lynched. We feel like this change should really keep Shakerag in line.”
TolyK receives “Target is Town.
You have gained an ability.
(2-Shot, Night) All The Facts [target]: Choose one: learn the target’s role name; learn the one of the target’s actions; learn the target’s targets during the Night; OR choose two of the previous AND you are no longer able to use other actions. The second time you use this, this action cannot fail or be blocked, redirect, or randomized, but you die at the end of the following Day.”
Varee receives “You must choose an ability to give away. If you do not select one within 24 hours, one will be selected at random.”
Day 3
Varee Settles with TolyK (1-Shot, Night) No You Can’t [target]: You kill the target. The target is unable to be revived or protected.
Tiruin Triskaidekaphobias
Cheeetar, TolyK, IronyOwl, Jack A T, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Nerjin, Scripten, Silthuri, Toaster, Varee Panicked
Urist Imiknorris Circle of Lifes back to Puppy Form
Nerjin Pardons Toaster
Varee Lynched
Toaster gains (Auto) Builder: Your unstoppable need to build things causes a random player (including you) is given a random ability that coincides with their role each Night. You may choose to target (excluding you) this as a free action.
Night 3
Urist Imiknorris Plays With Toaster
TolyK Fill In The Blanks Nerjin (Both)
Scripten Stings Jack A T (x2) [Fails]
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
TheWetSheep Bites IronyOwl
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Nerjin [Fails]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Tiruin [Fails
Cheeetar Narrate TolyK No You Can’t TolyK [Fails]
Jack A T Settlements TheWetSheep to Tiruin [Fails]
IronyOwl Follows Mysteriousbluepuppet [Fails]
Toaster Redirects Builder to Himself
Toaster Dies
TolyK Receives “Target is Town. Target used no action.”
Day 4
TolyK Typographical Errors to Scripten all votes
Scripten Lynched
Night 4
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes TolyK
Nerjin Martial Laws Nerjin [Fails]
TolyK All the Facts Cheeetar [Action] [Fails]
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
Jack A T Settlements TolyK to Tiruin [Fails]
Urist Imiknorris Plays With Toaster
TheWetSheep Bites Jack A T
IronyOwl Tails Nerjin [Fails]
IronyOwl dies
Mysteriousbluepuppet recevies “Target has (Night) Target Rewrite [target]: You randomize the target.”
Toaster receives “You have gained an ability.
(Night) Tail [target]: Curiosity might just kill the catgirl. You track the target, finding out who they target during the Night. Because what else do maids do?”
Day 5
TolyK Lynched
Night 5
Tiruin Fears Nerjin
Toaster Nones
Jack A T Settlements TheWetSheep to Toaster [Blocked]
Nerjin Martial Laws Nerjin
Cheeetar Story Controls Toaster to Toaster
Urist Imiknorris Circle of Lifes
Urist Imiknorris Guards Tiruin
TheWetSheep Nones
Mysteriousbluepuppet Bear Hugs Jack A T
Mysteriousbluepuppet Night Eyes Tiruin [Fear]
Mysteriousbluepuppet Receives “(Night) Fear [target]: If there are currently more than 13 players alive, the target is blocked. If there are less than 13 players alive, the target is protected. If there are exactly 13 players alive, the target is inspected.”
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 11:04:34 pm
Post by: 4maskedwolf on September 27, 2014, 11:05:29 pm
...So how did TWS die?Sheepy died for being a serial killer, and that's all you need to know.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 11:08:35 pm
...So how did TWS die?
My guess is they actioned during the night, but their 1-shot auto delayed their death until the following day auto-ended (due to MBP's ability). They couldn't post a picture of an octopus to revive with, so, death.
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 11:12:51 pm
>:I...So how did TWS die?Sheepy died for being a serial killer, and that's all you need to know.
But nobody targeted him (as in, the ability hitting him failed :v) and that he has an Auto working quite much just like Cheeetar's.
They're both technically immune to my 13-th hour.
MBP didn't target TWS......So how did TWS die?
My guess is they actioned during the night, but their 1-shot auto delayed their death until the following day auto-ended (due to MBP's ability). They couldn't post a picture of an octopus to revive with, so, death.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 11:15:53 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2014, 11:32:29 pm
If TWS targets somebody, TWS is then vulnerable to being actioned (only immune if they do nothing). Thus, they can die. TWS died from one of the many mass kills going around (yours, probably?), but the death was delayed due to their one-shot. The day then immediately ended and TWS died for realsies.But it's emphasized that he none'd. He can't be daykilled either given that Camouflage.
Meaning he's immune quite like you are--except that you need to act to be immune.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 11:35:57 pm
We only have the data up until the end of Night 5 - Wubba has yet to collate the actions of Day & Night 6 (because this is, I imagine, incredibly tedious and annoying to sort through.) The last day we posted in was Day 6, and you killed thm Night 6, hence my guessing that they actioned during Night 6.
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2014, 11:37:47 pm
TheWetSheep Bit Silthuri...
IT'S IN THE DANG FLAVOR! THAT'S WHAT I WAS WAITING FOR!
Post by: Cheeetar on September 27, 2014, 11:40:55 pm
Sidenote: The flavour was excellent in general, and specifically at the end (I am biased here.) Being mostly lighthearted and silly was very appreciated.
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 12:21:23 am
Eep. Sorry Wubba :(You were so mean ;_;
Sidenote: The flavour was excellent in general, and specifically at the end (I am biased here.) Being mostly lighthearted and silly was very appreciated.
Meaning: Flavor is excellent. But I did not parse any TWS sinking fangs < Silthuri to be any hint that he had acted. :-\
Edit: Deadchat.
...Was this all a punishment for everyone for 'outthinking the mod'? Even those who didn't even think of doing such?
Huh. That's quite mean.
I find it strange however, that most of the SKs didn't even use their factional kill...
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 28, 2014, 12:50:24 am
Poe's law is a marvelous thing.
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2014, 01:01:10 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 28, 2014, 01:01:17 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 01:07:15 am
SKs don't get factional kills, Tiruin.O___O
Woah.
Poe's law is a marvelous thing.This doesn't apply here, however. It's fully player-based.
Post by: TolyK on September 28, 2014, 01:27:31 am
- Only SK-ally lynched
- No SK's dying until the very end
- I manage to inspect only one third party and only one townie that didn't immediately die.
- Neutral is Third Party
- Mislynched the town arsonist
- Refrained from using kill when I could
Basically, duck the RNG. Good game. :p
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 01:28:30 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 28, 2014, 01:30:34 am
- Neutral is Third PartyI called Toaster as SK Day 4 based on this alone. Why did you assume he was a survivor?
Post by: TolyK on September 28, 2014, 01:36:22 am
But yeah. It was.
Post by: TolyK on September 28, 2014, 01:36:53 am
Good guy TolyK...
Post by: Cheeetar on September 28, 2014, 01:38:03 am
So how did I die again? Octopus to my face? :o
Nope! You and me were the only people left alive in the end- we couldn't lynch each other, and I was immune to your doomspeakery stuff. But I won because SK, and thus you lost :(
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 01:39:22 am
Oh. Technicalities.So how did I die again? Octopus to my face? :o
Nope! You and me were the only people left alive in the end- we couldn't lynch each other, and I was immune to your doomspeakery stuff. But I won because SK, and thus you lost :(
...hmphy. :I
Grats though. Your role saved you and argh we should've lynched you and hmph you were subtle and working with forgetfulness in poking at the D1 stuff..
Actually, o wanted to kill him just in case, but thought better of it.So what was that big post on how I'm scum?
Good guy TolyK...
Because his role was not an SK role.You had to say 'neutral is benevolent :D'
But yeah. It was.
I:
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on September 28, 2014, 01:50:30 am
Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2014, 01:54:36 am
I got that, silly. :P It's that we thought Neutral actually also meant the INTENT [though now looking at a reference {Mephansteras' Paranormal(?)}, its quite plaintive of the assumptions...Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
Post by: Persus13 on September 28, 2014, 03:00:29 am
Post by: TolyK on September 28, 2014, 04:27:56 am
I have no regrets.
Actually.
I have a lot of regrets. :p
Post by: Mysteriousbluepuppet on September 28, 2014, 09:23:19 am
Post by: Toaster on September 28, 2014, 11:59:39 am
Because his <claimed> role was not an SK role.
But yeah. It was.
I pretty much trueclaimed.
The real problem is no one asked Wuba what a neutral inspect meant. I knew full well (even ignoring my own alignment) that a neutral result meant third party with no implication of hostility to town... but I sure wasn't going to point that out.
Post by: TolyK on September 28, 2014, 12:29:20 pm
I was willing to give you benefit of doubt the whole time.
I even didn't kill you because you'd likely lose + I wanted to catch scum.
Good thing you died and lost. Bastard. :p
Post by: Toaster on September 28, 2014, 12:51:30 pm
EDIT: I will say I had a niggling doubt in my mind in that "how will mafia dying give me a kill? I can't steal a mafiakill..." but I never completed the thought.
Post by: zombie urist on September 28, 2014, 04:05:48 pm
The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.lol
Post by: Hapah on September 28, 2014, 09:06:11 pm
Post by: webadict on September 28, 2014, 10:14:32 pm
What would my role have ended up being?Oh right.
You basically were WIFOM. You had a one-shot Mafiakill borrow and Millerdom. After that, I didn't have anything else for you.
Post by: Shakerag on September 29, 2014, 09:35:03 am
i kno, rite?The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.lol
Well. This feels a little awkward right now.