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Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: PineMarten on July 06, 2019, 03:22:27 pm

Title: Communicable Diseases
Post by: PineMarten on July 06, 2019, 03:22:27 pm
I think it would be really cool if communicable diseases other than the infections and miasma we currently have were implemented into Dwarf Fortress. The symptoms of these diseases could be randomly generated. These diseases could range from minor colds that  would incapacitate a dwarf for a few days to plagues that could wipe out entire settlements. Each disease could spread a different way. For instance, you could have some diseases spread through the venom of cave spiders or bees. Diseases could affect different species with some affecting all sentient races, and others only affecting specific animals. These diseases could have procedurally generated names like "Orange Pox" or "Sheep's Scourge". Diseases could also affect crops, like the potato blight but for plump helmets. There is so much room for creativity here. Some diseases could have more exotic, or magical effects on their victims, like turning them into a different animal or making them grow extra limbs. Historically plagues and diseases have played an enormously important role in the growth and decline of civilizations. There is no reason to think that this wouldn't also occur in a medieval fantasy world. There are just so many interesting possibilities. It would add a whole new layer to the game!
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 06, 2019, 05:08:38 pm
I could be mistaken, but aren't infectious diseases already in the works for the longer term? Thought I remembered Toady bringing it up somewhere.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: PineMarten on July 06, 2019, 06:38:02 pm
Oh, sorry. If that's true I wasn't aware of it.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 06, 2019, 06:46:38 pm
Like I said, I could be wrong. Doesn't hurt to have it as a suggestion anyway. :)
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: MachoNacho on July 14, 2019, 11:56:10 am
I want a disease that turns dwarves into mushrooms.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: GoblinCookie on July 14, 2019, 03:52:32 pm
Quote from: PlumpHelmetMan on July 06, 2019, 05:08:38 pm
I could be mistaken, but aren't infectious diseases already in the works for the longer term? Thought I remembered Toady bringing it up somewhere.

True, but that does not stop us discussing how it should be implemented.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: PlumpHelmetMan on July 14, 2019, 04:20:11 pm
Indeed not. Like I acknowledged in my last post, it's helpful to have as a thread.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: scourge728 on July 15, 2019, 12:52:26 am
Quote from: MachoNacho on July 14, 2019, 11:56:10 am
I want a disease that turns dwarves into mushrooms.
better yet, plump helmet men
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: Azerty on July 15, 2019, 07:07:42 pm
We could use the same framework as the one used for syndromes.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: GoblinCookie on July 16, 2019, 06:46:56 am
Quote from: scourge728 on July 15, 2019, 12:52:26 am
Quote from: MachoNacho on July 14, 2019, 11:56:10 am
I want a disease that turns dwarves into mushrooms.
better yet, plump helmet men

A lot of that comes down to how unpleasant and how magical the world is.  Diseases will be rather interesting in a magical world and rather nasty in an unpleasant world; actually I would say that disease is almost the only way to make a truly hyper-nasty world.

Quote from: Azerty on July 15, 2019, 07:07:42 pm
We could use the same framework as the one used for syndromes.

I don't think that is a good idea.  The syndrome system works well for poisons, but we cannot use to for diseases unless we want to go down the route of actually modelling the clouds of microbes going about the place.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: Strik3r on July 16, 2019, 08:40:54 am
The syndrome system would work just fine for handling the symptoms of a disease, but the transmission part is a bit more difficult, as ideally it would happen among both civ-pop and histfigs.

Diseases will need their own raws that describe how they interact with non-historical population and what syndrome it results in should it come in contact with a historical figure. Syndromes themselves will also need to be retooled to allow them to be transmittable in various ways.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: MachoNacho on July 16, 2019, 10:03:20 am
Quote from: scourge728 on July 15, 2019, 12:52:26 am
Quote from: MachoNacho on July 14, 2019, 11:56:10 am
I want a disease that turns dwarves into mushrooms.
better yet, plump helmet men
Here.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: GoblinCookie on July 20, 2019, 10:06:35 am
Quote from: Strik3r on July 16, 2019, 08:40:54 am
The syndrome system would work just fine for handling the symptoms of a disease, but the transmission part is a bit more difficult, as ideally it would happen among both civ-pop and histfigs.

Diseases will need their own raws that describe how they interact with non-historical population and what syndrome it results in should it come in contact with a historical figure. Syndromes themselves will also need to be retooled to allow them to be transmittable in various ways.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think the way to do this is to create an invisible group of infectible folks that recruits a new member whenever a new individual comes into contact with it's members.  Periodically we infect new members of the group with the disease and add an immunity trait to those we do not choose in this manner.  I guess we would also cull immune members from the group every so often, so we end up with a spread of disease immunity.  What we end in essence is to have a means to keep folks that have no contact with infected people from catching the disease, that accounts for immunity and which prevents us having to actually model the actual microbes going about the place.
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: Timeless Bob on August 13, 2019, 12:43:37 am
Take "miasma" and give it the random properties of an "evil fog".  Make sure bodies will rot and have miasma regardless if they are underground or up top, if the random effect creates undead zombies, so be it.  There's a reason "cleanliness is next to godliness"
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: scourge728 on August 13, 2019, 08:28:03 am
I thought cleanliness was next to godliness because God was clean, turns out it's because if you aren't clean you'll start summoning undead zombies
Title: Re: Communicable Diseases
Post by: SixOfSpades on August 14, 2019, 01:23:09 pm
Quote from: Timeless Bob on August 13, 2019, 12:43:37 am
Take "miasma" and give it the random properties of an "evil fog".  Make sure bodies will rot and have miasma regardless if they are underground or up top, if the random effect creates undead zombies, so be it.  There's a reason "cleanliness is next to godliness"
Good, but if the miasma-like dispersal pattern only takes effect after death, that's a pretty small window of communication. I say any infected dwarf should be contagious 24/7 (after the disease is past its dormancy stage, that is), and the miasma method is excellent for modelling airborne contagions. Some should instead be waterborne [bathing at a well could contaminate the well for a while], some could require direct skin contact [assume chatting with friends would involve some such contact, while interactions between spouses would involve much more], infected Cooks & Butchers could contaminate the products of their labor, and some diseases could be passed with other animals [pets, livestock, fish, parasitic insects] as an intermediary vector.

To mimic RL diseases, most (all?) should affect only some creatures, leaving others completely untouched. Foot-and-mouth disease can be devastating to most mammalian livestock, but birds are immune, and humans almost-completely so.