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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 03:58:17 pm

Title: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 03:58:17 pm

Civilization Forge v3.0
Compatible with Dwarf Fortress version 0.40.05+

About the Mod
  Civilization Forge is a Major Mod designed to enhance and expand upon vanilla Dwarf Fortress. It includes many new races, animals, plants, stones, armor, and weapons as well as many balance fixes. It also includes my Ironworks revamp, Alchemy, and a Library/Training Dummy system to help train difficult skills and keep rarely used skills sharp.

3.0 brings the mod up to compatibility with DF 0.40.5+, with a few tweaks here and there to accomodate a bunch of the changes in version. No fundamental changes, however.

There is a new optional set of Carnivore changes for Dyansauri and some primative races that you can use. They get Meat Plants to cultivate, and that keeps them from outright dying during world gen. However, they tend to be rare and often end up only on the outskirts of other races unless you have a high Savagery world.

40.05+ compatible
Download link: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9530

DF 34.11 with Mayday graphics and Civilization Forge (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) by Anathema (Out of Date)

Wiki link: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Civilization_Forge (horribly out of date)
Alchemy Flowchart: http://www.brightsoft.net/AlchemyGraph.png

Legacy 31.25 packs
Mayday Graphics pack version courtesy of Anathema: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800
Phoebus graphics pack version courtesy of Sol Invictus: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4845

Check the changelist at the bottom to see the specific changes.

Thanks to Lord Shonus for the Sling, Atlatl, and related ammo and workshop

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Features

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New Races

• High Elves - Noble and Wise, the high elves are a little more similar to Humans then their woodland cousins, living in cities and using metal weapons and armor. They are known for forging weapons of great beauty and power. They will accept items made of wood, but still hold life in high regard.
• Silver Xelics - A strange race of Insectoids, these creatures live in the wetlands of the world. While at peace with the world, like elves, they do not seem to mind other races use of wood and animals as much.
• Vamarii - A race of ice-dwelling fox-like humanoids, they live off of the land and sea. When the snows melt, they bring caravans of goods to trade for dwarven crafts, metals, and weapons.
• Chaos Dwarves - A twisted branch of dwarves twisted by the powers of chaos. They have no honor, black souls, and foul tempers. Some few are even rumored to be possessed by demonic spirits, and possess unholy strength.
• Hobgoblins - A cruel but noble race, the Hobgoblins have more honor then their smaller cousins. They do not hold with the thieving ways of goblins, and will not approach an enemy until it is rich enough to be worthwhile attacking. When they come, however, it is in force.
• Bugbears - Large and brutish, unskilled in metalworking, they attempt to take what they cannot make themselves. They are found in the deep forests of the world.
• Dyansauri - A race of Savage saurian warriors who live to fight and die in battle. They do not sneak, they do not steal, and should they war upon you they will come swiftly and in great numbers.
• Violet Xelics - Evil kindred to the Silver Xelics, the Violet ones make dark fortresses within the swamps of the world. They rarely use armor, nor do they need it. Unlike goblins, a single Xelic is more then a match for a dwarf, and fighting them should be done cautiously.
• Frost Giants - Twice as large as a dwarf, and with hearts as cold as the glaciers they live on. Frost giants generally keep to their frozen strongholds, but any who incur their wrath have cause to fear their strength.
• Sand Raiders - A mysterious race of robed humanoids that lives in the deserts of the world. They frequently raid surrounding settlements. They are very stealthy, and even their sieges are done in stealth.
• Zephyrs - a mountain dwelling race of intelligent rodents. They're thieves like Kobalds, and usually killed for the vermin they are.
• Jawas - a strange desert dwelling race. They sometimes sneak into the settlements of other races to steal things, or perhaps just cause a bit of mischief...
• Beastmen - Goatmen driven insane by foul magic. They are cunning and capable of using Wrought Iron, but cannot stand other races and constantly war with everyone around them
• Animal Men (Bearmen, Frogmen, Goatmen, Jackalmen, Lizardmen, Monkeymen, Raccoonmen, Ravenmen, Snakemen, Squirrelmen, Tigermen, Wolfmen). These Primitive civilizations make up much of the world, but due to their limited technological capabilities tend to suffer at the hands of the more aggressive main races.

New Weapons

• Mattock - A two-handed pick often used by dwarven miners. It is no military weapon, but can still do considerable damage when necessary.
• Club - A simple blunt weapon, usually used by more primitive races
• Hand Axe - Lighter than a Battle Axe, the hand axe hits with less force but has greater speed.
• War Axe - Larger and heavier than a Battle Axe, the war axe is often used two-handed by dwarves.
• Raven's Beak - A pole weapon with a hammer-head shaped much like a Raven's Beak. It is useful when fighting armored opponents.
• Skullcracker - A dwarven maul that has been adopted by a few other races. The Skullcracker is heavy, and usually used two-handed.
• Light Hammer - A dwarven work hammer that can be used in combat. Not as good as a real war hammer, but serviceable in a pinch.
• Flambard - A long sword with a blade that is curved like fire.
• Falcata - A long bladed sword weighted for hacking.
• Falcion - A short, heavy sword weighted for hacking.
• Kopesh - An ancient design, the Kopesh is a sword with a sickle-like blade. It is favored by Bugbears, but generally considered inferior by other races.
• Bastard Sword - A large sword in-between a long sword and a two-handed sword.
• Dire Blade - A humongous sword wielded by the Frost Giants. It is unlikely that any normal creature could use one.
• Dire Spear - A humongous spear wielded by the Frost Giants. It is unlikely that any normal creature could use one.
• Dire Maul - A humongous hammer wielded by the Frost Giants. It is unlikely that any normal creature could use one.
• Dire Axe - A humongous axe wielded by the Frost Giants. It is unlikely that any normal creature could use one.
• Dread Star - A humongous spiked mace wielded by the Frost Giants. It is unlikely that any normal creature could use one.
• Scorpion Dagger - A thin, pointed dagger used by Sand Raiders to penetrate armor.
• Scorpion Blade- A thin, pointed sword used by Sand Raiders to penetrate armor.
• Scorpion Spear- A thin, pointed spear used by Sand Raiders to penetrate armor.
• Long Bow - A long-limbed bow used by Elves. It fires longer arrows than a normal bow and is more powerful.
• War Bow - a bow with dagger blades attached to the front. Used by High Elves to improve their archers survivability in melee combat.
• Heavy Morningstar - A two-handed version of the morning star. Basically just a large spiked club.
• Staff - Used by some humans and High elves staves are a simple weapon. With skill, however, they can still be quite deadly.
• Fist Spike - A punch dagger used by dwarves. It utilizes the Strike skill instead of the Dagger skill.
• Longarm - A dwarven weapon that can propel thrown weapons over long distances.
• Sling - A strip of leather used to hurl stones at high speeds. Used by primitive civs.
• Atlatl - A device used to fling javelins long distances. Used by primitive civs.
• Arbalest - A Heavy Crossbow used by dwarves. It uses Broad Bolts, which have better armor penetration capabilities than regular crossbows. Requires two hands to wield.

New Armor

• Mail Vest - A light vest made of woven chain. It provides less cover than a chain shirt, but requires fewer materials and is considerably lighter.
• Mail Hauberk - A long coat made of woven chain. It provides even better protection than a chain shirt, but requires more materials and is considerably heavier.
• Scale Armor - A coat of armor made with overlapping scales. It is generally equivalent to chain.
• Scale Hauberk - A long coat of armor made with overlapping scales. It is generally equivalent to a chain hauberk.
• Lamellar Armor - A coat of armor made with small plates sewn next to each other. It is stiffer than chain, and so provides better protection against blunt attacks. However, it is heavier and less flexible.
• Heavy Lamellar Armor - A long coat of Lamellar. It provides great protection, but is quite heavy.
• Scale Leggings - Armored leggings made of overlapping scales. Generally equivalent to chain leggings.
• Lamellar Leggings - Armored leggings made of small plates sewn together. Slightly better than chain leggings, but a bit heavier.
• Apron - A simple work apron often used by dwarves. When made of leather it can provide some protection.
• Chain coif - A hood of woven chain. It provides better cover than a metal cap, though it protects less against blunt attacks.
• Chain gauntlet - A glove of woven chain. Not as protective as full plate gauntlets, but they are much lighter
• Scale gauntlet - A glove of overlapping scales. Not as protective as full plate gauntlets, but they are much lighter
• Lamellar gauntlet - A glove of small plates. Not as protective as full plate gauntlets, but they are much lighter

New Shields

• Kite Shield - A large shield with a pointed tip at the bottom. It provides better cover than a standard round shield, but is heavier.
• Tower Shield - A very large shield that acts as a portable wall. It provides the best cover, but is very heavy.
• Targe - A small round shield, in between a standard Round and a Buckler. It provides decent protection and is fairly light.

New Domestic Animals

• Cave Crab - A large domesticated land crab. It can be trained for both hunting and war. It is also bred for its meat and shell (which can be used for moods that require shell)
• Giant Beetle - A very large domesticated Beetle. It is used for both war and as a pack animal, and is a match for an armed opponent all on its own.
• Sugar Beetle - A large beetle with sweet succulent meat.
• Land Strider - A gigantic creature that lives on the temperate plains of the world. It can be tamed and used to haul vast amounts of goods

New Wild Animals

• Spike Beetle - A medium sized insect that roams the forests of the world. They can be hostile, but are generally too small to be a threat.
• Fire Beetle - A rare beetle found in savage lands. It is generally docile, but can spit a gout of fire when threatened.
• Giant Ants - While only a minor pest to an established fortress, they can be a serious hazard to a young outpost. They will attempt to raid your food supplies, and Soldier ants especially can be quite dangerous.
• Redstripe Wasp - These medium-sized forest critters can be a serious pest. About the size of a cat, these wasps will raid your fortress for food. Not too dangerous, generally, but their poisonous stings can be deadly.
• Giant Wasp - A serious threat found in Savage lands, the Giant Wasp is nearly the size of a dwarf and boasts a deadly poisoned stinger. They will raid your fortress for food. It is recommended that young forts simply appease them with a pile of extra food stuffs well away from the fortress rather than attempt to actually fight the wasps.
• Arctic Fox - A white-coated fox that lives in the tundra.
• Wolly Mammoth - A huge creature that roams the tundra. It can be tamed and used to haul goods.
• Ravens - Large black birds.
• Giant Cave Crab - Huge crabs that dwell in the deep caverns.

New Toys

• Doll

New Tools

• Jar - Used in Alchemy

New Stones

• Nivocite - A bluish magma-proof stone found in igneous extrusive layers
• Nightstone - A bright blue stone flecked with sparkling minerals. It is considered valuable, and often used in trade goods and murals.
• Verdenite - A dark stone struck through with bright lines of green. It is a good source of Jade.
• Lepidolite - A purple variety of Mica, worth a bit more than normal stone
• Zinnwaldite - A yellow variety of Mica, worth a bit more than normal stone
• Muscovite - A white variety of Mica, worth a bit more than normal stone
• Phlogophite - A green variety of Mica, worth a bit more than normal stone
• Black Marble
• Green Marble
• Midnight Blue Marble
• Rose Marble
• Celestial Marble - A rare and expensive type of marble that seems flecked with stars. However, unlike the other marbles it cannot be used as Flux
• Bladestone - A blueish stone found in small clusters. It can be used to make stone weapons.
• Flint- A blueish stone found as pockets within Chalk and Limestone. It can be used to make stone weapons.
• Alum Shale - An oil shale that can be used to make Alum. This Sedimentary Layer stone is dark blue.
• Melanterite - This green stone is often found in veins of coal or iron ore. It is used in alchemy.
• Chalcanthite - This blue stone is often found in veins of copper ore. It is used in alchemy.
• Truesilver - This purple ore is the only source of Mithril in the world. The mithril must be separated from the silver in the ore in a Separation Chamber
• Levitite - This green ore is the only source of Levisium in the world. The levisium must be separated from the copper in the ore in a Separation Chamber

New Gems

• Amazonite - A green gem found in microcline
• Fine Jet - Gem quality Jet
• Nightfire - A precious gem occasionally found within clusters of Fine Jet
• Frost Crystal - A hardened shard of Elemental Water. It can be combined with iron to make Glacium
• Fireheart - A hardened shard of Elemental Fire. It can be combined with iron to make Incendium
• Storm Crystal - A hardened shard of Elemental Air. It can be combined with iron to make Tempestium
• Ward Crystal - A hardened shard of Elemental Earth. It can be combined with iron to make Ward Iron
• Flare Crystal - A strange glowing gem. It can be combined with Fireheart to make blazing Incendium, a very dangerous material

New Metals & Alloys

• Wrought Iron - Work-hardened iron, it is considerably stronger than regular iron. Not as strong as good steel, though
• Crucible Steel - A special crucible formed steel made from Ilmenite, Crucible Steel is stronger than regular steel
• Mithril - A rare and precious metal, Mithril is stronger than steel and much lighter
• Bright Silver - When smelted normally, Truesilver gives Bright Silver. This shiny metal is roughly equivalent to Iron or Bronze, though a good bit lighter
• Orihalcum - Mithril can be alloyed with Gold and Platinum to create Orihalcum. This Red metal is dense, but much harder than steel
• Royal Bronze - When alloyed with Copper and Tin, Mithril gives you the purple Royal Bronze. This metal is stronger than regular bronze and a bit lighter
• Levisium - Nearly weightless, this bright green metal does not make for good weapons. However, it does make for decent armor that won't weigh down the wearer.
• Green Copper - When smelted normally, Levitite gives Green Copper. This metal is a bit stronger than copper and a bit lighter.
• Verdant Bronze - When alloyed with copper and tin Levisium gives the brilliantly green Verdant Bronze. This metal is slightly lighter than regular bronze, and nearly as strong.
• Shimmersteel - When alloyed with iron in the creation of steel, Levesium gives you the glittering Shimmersteel. This metal is slightly lighter than regular steel and nearly as strong.
• Tempered Crystal - When tempered properly, Crystal Glass can be made into metallic bars. By themselves these bars are a good bit weaker than bronze or iron.
• Blood Crystal - When crystal glass is tempered with Quicksilver you get Blood Crystal. Stronger than iron and razor sharp it makes for superb weapons.
• Night Crystal - When crystal glass is tempered with Midnight Elixir you get Night Crystal. Stronger than iron, this dark blue metal makes good armor and blunt weapons.
• Void Crystal - When crystal glass is tempered with Quicksilver, Midnight Exlixir, and Black Antimony you get the nearly black Void Crystal. This crystal is stronger and sharper than steel.
• Glacium - Imbued with Elemental Water this metal is permanently cold to the touch. It is far superior to Steel.
• Incendium - Imbued with Elemental Fire this metal is permanently warm to the touch. Some of the best weapons in the world are made from this metal.
• Blazing Incendium - Imbued with Elemental Fire this metal is permanently hot to the touch. It is quite hazardous to work with.
• Tempestium - Imbued with Elemental Air this metal crackles with energy. It can only be worked in small amounts, but ammo created with it can pierce the strongest armor.
• Ward Iron - Imbued with Elemental Earth this metal is fantastically tough. Some of the best armor in the world is made from this metal.
• Elementium - Imbued with all four Elements, this Metal is superior to everything but the fabled Adamantine.

New Plants

• Glowcaps - Strange glowing mushrooms. They take a long time to grow, and the yield is small, but they produce one of the finest drinks in the world.
• Slime Mold - Not very tasty, but edible and grows fast
• Cave Bulb - A fragrant bulb that can be milled into spice or brewed into drink
• Dark Crystal Grass - A grass-like stalk covered in dark crystals. It can be milled into dark violet dye
• Crimson Crystal Grass - A grass-like stalk covered in red crystals. It can be milled into scarlet dye
• Verdant Crystal Grass - A grass-like stalk covered in green crystals. It can be milled into jade dye
• Golden Crystal Grass - A grass-like stalk covered in golden crystals. It can be milled into gold dye
• Web Lichen - A rare underground plant, it can be eaten raw or brewed into firewater.
• Raspberry - A temperate berry
• Blackberry - A temperate berry
• Blueberry - A temperate berry
• Cotton - A tropical plant that makes fine cloth
• Cinnamon- A tropical shrub that can be milled into spice
• Black Pepper Vine - A tropical plant that can be milled into spice
• Sugar Cane - A tropical plant that can be processed into sugar, rum, or molasses
• Crowberry - A tundra berry.
• Lingonberry - A tundra berry that can be eaten raw or processed into syrup
• Rime Berry - A rare tundra berry that can be brewed for the finest drink in the world - Winter Wine
• Silverwood - A rare tree found only in goodly lands. It's wood is said to be hard as iron, and it is highly prized by the Elves.

Ironworks

• Iron created at the smelter represents basic iron. Iron can be work-hardened at the Finishing Forge to create Wrought Iron, is in-between regular Iron and Steel.
• Steel is no longer created at the Smelter. Instead, I am using some more historically accurate was to create steel.
• Pattern-welded steel is created by taking Iron Bars, Pig Iron Bars, and charcoal or coke and hammering them together at the finishing forge to balance out the carbon levels between the two types of iron. This is the most labor intensive way to make steel, and dwarves usually have better options, but can be done if other resources are lacking.
• Pig Iron no longer requires Flux
• Two types of Steel are made at the new Crucible furnace. Normal steel is made by taking Iron Bars and Wood and heating them with fuel or magma to add carbon to the iron to make steel. Crucible Steel is a special form of naturally alloyed steel made from Ilmenite (now an iron ore found in gabbro). Crucible Steel is made using Ilmenite, Wood, raw green glass, and fuel/magma. It is stronger than normal steel due to impurities of Vanadium in the Ilmenite.
• The new Blast Furnace is a dwarf-only building that allows for large-scale steel production. Six iron ore, six flux stones, and six coke/charcoal are placed into the blast furnace and fired with fuel or magma to create six steel bars. This is by far the most efficient way to make steel, but since it only works in large batches and requires flux you may still find yourself making steel using the other two methods as well. It requires 3 stone blocks, 2 leather (for bellows), and a wrought iron bar to create.
• The new Charcoal furnace is a high efficiency furnace that turns wood into two units of Charcoal, although it is slightly harder to make than a normal wood burning furnace.

Alchemy

• Alchemy recipes can be found within the 'Alchemy Basics.txt' file that comes with the mod.
• Alchemy is currently used to create the new Metals and is generally optional. However, for those that like complexity it should be a welcome addition to the game.
• As of 2.7 Alchemy now uses Blocks instead of Boulders to compensate for reduced stone drops from mining.

Libraries

• Libraries can be created by using Books - Libraries help train dwarves and keep their skills sharp.
• Books are created using Paper/Parchment/Papyrus, Leather bindings, Glue, and Ink. The are created at a Scriptorium
• Training dummies can now be built which allow for specific combat training.

Changes

• Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, and Brass now use a more realistic ratio of copper to tin/zinc. It's 4/1, although in reality it should be 9/1.
• Ore frequencies and values have been balanced. Ores are now worth less than the smelted metal they produce, and platinum no longer shows up in veins.
• Ilmenite is now an ore of iron.
• Chert is now bluish and can be used to make rock weapons.
• Jet is more valuable, and Obsidian is now a nice dark black
• Kimberlite can now show up in large clusters
• Above-ground crops have seasons, below-ground crops do not
• Chitin is tannable - Courtesy of Lofn
• Many balance changes to weapons and materials - Courtesy of Arrkhal. Blunt weapons are useful again!
• Dwarves have Trapavoid (as do Tainted Dwarves)
• Expedition Leader is now Elected, so you should get a new one if your old one dies.
• Pack Animals now have reasonable carrying capacity
• Cows now have a third caste, Oxen. Oxen are castrated males trained as pack animals/wagon pullers. Not useful for much in a fortress other than slaughtering right now, but you'll sometimes see them show up with merchants
• Shields are now called Round Shields
• Gauntlets are now called Plate Gauntlets
• Bronze Colossus no longer has the Soulshard since Toady fixed that bug.
• Bronze can now be used to create Anvils
• Iron and Bronze anvils can be cast at the Smelter
• The Leathers for many animals have been upgraded to provide better protection. Cows, Rhinos, and Elephants in particular provide much better armor than regular leather. Special hides, like Dragon Scales, are especially good.[/i]
  

Spoiler: Changed Files (click to show/hide)

b_detail_plan_default.txt
creature_domestic.txt
creature_equipment.txt
creature_large_tropical.txt
creature_large_tundra.txt
creature_standard.txt
entity_default.txt
inorganic_metal.txt
inorganic_stone_gem.txt
inorganic_stone_layer.txt
inorganic_stone_mineral.txt
item_ammo.txt
item_gloves.txt
item_pants.txt
item_shield.txt
item_trapcomp.txt
item_weapon.txt
material_template_default.txt
plant_standard.txt
reaction_smelter.txt

Spoiler: Change List (click to show/hide)

-----------------
Version List
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2.01 - Initial 31.03 version
2.02 - Bugfix version
  - Fixed plant spelling/name errors
  - Removed liaisons from Frost Giants
  - Fixed name issue with bladestone & flint
  - Increased material size for Lamellar leggings
  - Fixed max_edge on stone template
2.1 - Ironworks edition 
  - Fixed Sugar Beetles to have higher value meat/chitin
  - Bronze Collossus now has a Soulshard that when destroyed kills the collossus   
  - Steel is no longer created at the Smelter
  - Added in Finishing Forge, Crucible, Blast Furnace, and Charcoal Furnace buildings
  - Iron created at the smelter can no longer be used for weapons and armor.   
  - Added in Wrought iron as an improved version of iron suitable for weapons and armor
  - Added in Crucible Steel as a natural steel alloy
  - Bronze can now be used to make anvils
  - Iron and Bronze anvils can be cast at the Smelter
2.2 - Alchemy edition
  - Added in new metals and ores
  - Added in new Alchemy workshops
  - Added in Light hammers and Aprons, while allowing dwarves to make daggers. Civilian weapons are a go!
  - Adjusted some weapons & materials to handle the 31.10 combat changes 
  - Removed Soulshard from Bronze Colossus
2.21 - Minor Bugfix
  - Mithril and Levisium Separation was happening in the Tempering Chamber instead of the Separation Chamber
2.22 - Minor update
  - Added Long and War bows for the Elves and High Elves
  - Added the Heavy Morningstar and Staff for some races.
  - Brought the raws in line with the 31.12 changes
  - Tweaked some of the civ attributes for Hobgoblins, Chaos Dwarves, and Bugbears
2.23 - Minor edits
  - Fixed a bug where Magma ironworks buildings didn't work
  - Added in Fist Spikes
  - Tweaked Entities a little bit
  - Fixed the price of Bronze
  - Added in Ravens
  - Added in the Optional Filler Stones
2.3 - Primitive Civilizations
  - Added in the primitive civs
  - Added in the Beastmen
  - Added Ratmen back as an underground civ
  - Made changes to bring the mod to 31.16
2.31 - 31.18 update
  - Brings the mod up to 31.18
  - Added banditry and castle building tags to various civs 
2.4 - 31.21 update
  - Made changes to bring the mod up to 31.21
  - Removed the filler stones and Alchemy workaround
  - Changed the Crystal metals to use crystal seed instead of raw rock crystal
  - Added in Jars as tools and smoothlined the alchemy process a bit
2.41 - 31.25 update
  - Made changes to bring the mod up to 31.25
  - Removed the underground ratmen civ as Toady has reintroduced the rodent men
2.42 - Alchemy bug fix
  - Made powders use bags instead of Jars
  - Removed [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag from Dyansaurai, Hobgoblins, and Frost Giants to keep people from randomly turning hostile in Adventure Mode
  - Various Alchemy reaction fixes 
2.60 - 34.05 update
  - Made changes to bring the mod up to 34.05
  - Added new creature interactions to some of the CF creatures (like rooting for vermin).
2.70 - 34.09 update
  - Made changes to bring the mod up to 34.09
  - Rebalanced Ironworks, Smelter reactions, and Alchemy to handle reduced stone drops.
2.8 - Buxfix and Range Balancing
  - Fixes many bugs
  - Rebalances Ranged combat to be more reasonable
  - Adds in the Arbalest, a new heavy crossbow 
3.0 - 40.05+ Release   
  - Added optional Carnivore race sets and some Meat Plants to help them survive world gen

 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: ZeroGravitas on February 18, 2009, 04:38:37 pm

whoops wrong thread

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 04:39:28 pm

Future Plans


Ideas
First off, I've been thinking about races. With the new Caste system going in, I'll be able to do a good bit more with them. One thought I had was to break down each basic race into 3 subraces. These sub races may be simple Civ ethics changes, could involve specific castes, or could be groupings of vaguely related creatures. Some of the notes I have in here won't have any effect on the next version, but I like to have an overall vision for the races that goes beyond the game's limitations.

Here is how I'm thinking of breaking things down right now:
Each race will get a Noble/Good version, a Neutral version, and a Degenerate/Savage/Evil version.

Dwarves:
    Normal - Toady's vision of Dwarves. Good, hardworking people.
    Hill - The Hill dwarves have moved out of the mountains and live in human style cities in the hills. They're renowned for their craftdwarfship, but can be somewhat harsh to other races.
    Chaos/Tainted/Whatever - Total basket cases. Anything goes.

Elves:
     Normal - Your normal stuck-up hippy elves
     High - The CF style High Elves. Still vegetarian, but willing to use wood for fuel.
     Wolf pack - These elves went too far into the mind of nature, and can't come back. They have become total carnivorous hunters, savage and wild.
       And/or Tainted Elves. Not sure what to do with them yet. Give them High Elf level technology and make them evil, perhaps.

Humans:
     High Men - Noble and self rightious, but strong allies and good traders
     Normal - Average humans. A bit greedy and selfish, but not bad
     Slavers/Tainted - Vicious and cruel, they lust after the wealth they cannot make themselves.

Goblins:
     Hobgoblins: The basic CF Hobgoblins. Cruel, but noble. They are warriors above all else.
     Normal: Classic DF goblins. Baby snatching, bone eating, squabbling greenskins.
     Redcaps: Bloodthirsty versions of their cousins, the Redcaps actively TRY to be evil.

Xelics:
     Silver - These insectoids live in harmony with nature. They encourage other races to do the same, but are not convinced that it is possible and seem not to be too offended by others ways
     Cobalt - The Cobalt Xelics are somewhat Xenophobic and can be quite hostile. They may occasionally war with other races, but tend to stay isolated otherwise.
     Violet - The Violet Xelics are cruel creatures, seeming to delight in evil experiments and dissections of other creatures. It is theorized that they don't really understand non-insect biology, and seek to understand its inner workings. Preferable while it's still alive.

Dyansaurai:
     Crested - These herbivorous creatures sport large head crests. They are generally peaceful, but will fight hard to protect their own.
     Normal - Savage warriors, these human sized dinosaurs are clever and adept at metalworking. They love combat, and relish to opportunity to go to war. When at peace, however, they are willing to trade with the 'lesser' races.
     Great Ones - These gigantic beasts are only mildly intelligent. But they have mastered some forms of metalsmithing, and their great size and natural weapons make up for any technological deficiencies. They are hunters and warriors, and powerful foes.

Bugbears:
     Maruuk - Pacifists, these shaggy creatures live deep in the woods hunting and gathering berries.
     Bugbears - Large, hairy, foul tempered, and compulsive thieves. Unlike their smaller cousins, the bugbears take by force. Except for children, which they sometimes eat and sometimes keep as servants.
     Kobolds - Degenerate little thieves. Classic DF.

Vamarii:
     Normal - These beings, similar to Arctic foxes, live in shining palaces of ice among the arctic lands. They are fond of wealth, and gladly trade with other races for what they cannot make or find for themselves. Very fond of gems.
     Woodland - Friendly but mischievous, these Foxlike beings live in scattered hamlets in the woodlands and valleys of the world.
     Night - These small, black foxes are thieves and cowards. Very similar to kobolds, even if they think otherwise.

Desert Folk
    Animara - These strange creatures have the bodies of men with the heads of various animals. They are a proud, noble race who cultivate many strange plants out in the desert sands.
    Jawas - Odd little scavengers, they can be mischievous and a bit kleptomanic.
    Sand Raiders - Harsh beings from a Harsh land, they often raid surrounding lands for slaves.

Giants: A little different from the others, the Giants are based on Elements.
     Storm - These giants wander the great plains of the world, with giant herds of animals that they use for food and clothing. They do some smithing, but care little for technology overall.
     Stone - Living deep in the mountains these beings rival Dwarves for their knowledge and skill with stone and metal
     Frost - Cold-hearted beings, the Frost giants live amongst the snow wastelands of the world. They love combat and drinking, and will travel great distances for either.
     Fire - Hot tempered, these great beings live in the deserts of the world. It is best to avoid them, as they have a habit of killing first and saving questions for your charred corpse.

Eye Creatures
   These need to have the details fleshed out a bit. But they're going to be a very interesting race that heavily utilizes castes. Basic description: Giant Eyeballs with arms & legs, that often have other bits tacked on or modified. Weapons for hands, antenni, frills, spikes, and so on. They cannot communicate with the other races, and seek to wipe them from the planet so they can have it as their own.

--------------------

Non-Race related items:

Things to add: Libraries and Knowledge transfer, Furs & Feathers, More uses for Alchemy

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Tigershark13 on February 18, 2009, 04:57:50 pm

this looks awesome :D *really should try out civ forge* I take it there's no graphics pack for this version coming out?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 05:01:01 pm

For the new version? Well, nothing planned. Although maybe someone will start making one as I get closer to releasing it and actually know what'll be in it.

For the current version Stridor has been working on some graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=831). Doesn't have everything, but it's a start.

I need to get a really motivated graphics person to work on this with me...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Tigershark13 on February 18, 2009, 07:08:03 pm

I'd help but my photoshopping is generally sub par at best :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 08:24:04 pm

Let's see...All basic military roles except crossbow. For Civilians: Pretty much everything except Farming, Threshing, and Milling.

I'm honestly not sure how many different icons most sets actually use. I'd guess one for miner, one for woodcutter, and then a bunch of similar 'worker' ones that are color coded? You could probably use the woodcutter for the Hunter, since Frost Giants don't use any range weapons (not sporting enough).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Vucar Fikodastesh on February 18, 2009, 08:27:29 pm

Maybe i am misunderstanding something, but wouldn't you get a mix of all the different castes in fortress mode? It is my understanding that you select a race in the entity file, and the race is randomly populated from the different castes. I think the main reason Toady created castes was to control male and female facial hair growth.

I think what you are trying to would work best with completely separate races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 18, 2009, 08:36:57 pm

Hmmm...reading back through Toady's answer thread it looks like Civs can set jobs and positions by Caste, but nothing restricts Castes from showing up in a civ. Although that may be subject to change, I'll have to assume it for now.

Oh, well, a lot of these will just be different races. Or, for races like Humans, they'll just be Humans with different Civ entries to reflect the different cultures.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 19, 2009, 10:30:45 am

Yeah, a few are a little hard to tell. But they still look pretty good!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Leissi on February 19, 2009, 10:47:36 am

oh snap all my effort in trying to merge this with LL and Primitivecivs has been in vain.

or maybe not, I'll just grab the additional info and paste it \o/

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 19, 2009, 10:50:15 am

Well, none of this goes in until the new version of Dwarf Fortress comes out, with all it's save breaking awesomeness. So all the mods will pretty much have to be redone at that point anyway.

This is just my planning thread, at the moment, since the release is another two months or so away.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on February 19, 2009, 02:22:38 pm

I like them! When you get them done and up on the DFFD I'll make sure I link to them with the release of the Frost Giant Citidel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Tigershark13 on February 19, 2009, 02:28:30 pm

woah 0.0 they're awesome

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2009, 06:10:15 pm

Anyone have any good ideas for the mid-level Dwarves?

Here are a few random ideas I've had:
   Surface Dwarves: Driven out of the deeps during pre-history, these dwarves have made a living for themselves building giant citadels on the surface. They're more warlike then the classic dwarves, but still generally honorable. They view other races as beneath them, however, and will take slaves during warfare.
   Fire Dwarves: Dwarves that have grown more akin to Magma then to normal Rock, these dwarves have dark skin and red hair. They are more fire resistant then other dwarves, and a bit tougher. However, they're a bit xenophobic and rarely trade with other races.
   Earthkin: These dwarves are much closer to the living Stone then their normal counterparts, going so far as to literally have Stone for skin. This makes them tough, but a good bit slower then their fleshy cousins.
   

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: quintin522 on May 12, 2009, 10:32:58 pm

Dwarfmaids. Not female cleaning dwarfs. Nooooo, I mean Dwarfmaids. As in Urist McDwarf got really drunk one night and mistook a mermaid for his wife.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2009, 10:35:09 pm

While that would be really cool, I can't really do anything with underwater or flying races until Toady makes them functional in Fortress Mode. Right now they'd just cancel all their jobs due to 'dangerous terrain'

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2009, 12:51:16 pm

Based on what Toady has been saying about the new moddable nobility, I'm thinking of adding in Guildmasters. Basically, once you get up to a Barony you'll be able to promote a Dwarf to Guildmaster. This guildmaster will be able to listen to grievances as well as perform the basic function of that guild, and will have some basic room requirements.

Current guild ideas:
Miners
Stoneworkers
Woodworkers
Metalsmiths
Farmers
Fishers/Hunters
Crafters
Weavers

This will do a few things, I think.
  1) It will let you promote your best dwarves to 'noble' status, where they should be immune to mandate punishments.
  2) It gives you more dwarves to listen to problems, which should help with tantrum spirals.
  3) It adds a little bit of overhead in the form of room requirements to offset the benefits. Although if you're like me your best dwarves usually have nice rooms anyway, so I don't think that'll be too much of a burden.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Angellus on July 09, 2009, 02:37:53 pm

On races:

I would add a demon race.

White: Good demons who trade (very) precious items with you.
Grey: Neutral in nearly every aspect.
Black: See them as the orcs in your mod, they attack soon, and with many once they notice your fort standing, they will know no fear, no danger and will spring as much traps as possible before finally dying. High damblock and gore attacks.
They will not use weapons, they will, however (should toady have implemented it) have a variety of poisons. (Paralyse, illness, near-instant death) The leaders will have poisons that can kill a dwarf with a scratch.

The names are just quickly put up and might need some adaption.

A zerg rush race would also be great :D just wait till you have hundreds of critters running at you and your traps, you'll never get enough traps up beforehand.

Hyrilleans: as stated above, the 'zerg' race. very fast, very weak, but extreme birthrate and numbers. they will attack with 10 times the amount of dwarves!
Some of the stronger ones hold minor poisons to near-permanent paralyse poisons.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Grimlocke on July 09, 2009, 03:09:28 pm

Is this 'zerg rush' the new internet fad? Dunno what it is, but I oppose the idea of putting any fad in a mod. They are soooo lame...

Anyhow, on the guilds, I suggest adding a engineers guild, an administrators guild and perhaps also an architects guild. The later only when the architect job has some more use to it. I also sugest merging the weavers guild with the crafters guild. Alternatelly, you could make a clothworkers guild and merge the crafters guilds with the stone, wood and metal workers.

On the earlier idea you stated, about all the different races, you might want to narrow those down a bit. Its not possible to get those all to show up in a single world, and even if it was, then the weaker ones would die out very quickly.

Lastelly, you can allready mod in poisenous attacks, so long as they are innate creature attacks (not weapons). Creatures like GCS use it, you can give them stun, paralise or both. See the wiki for more details.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2009, 03:25:44 pm

Quote from: Grimlocke on July 09, 2009, 03:09:28 pm

Is this 'zerg rush' the new internet fad? Dunno what it is, but I oppose the idea of putting any fad in a mod. They are soooo lame...

Anyhow, on the guilds, I suggest adding a engineers guild, an administrators guild and perhaps also an architects guild. The later only when the architect job has some more use to it. I also sugest merging the weavers guild with the crafters guild. Alternatelly, you could make a clothworkers guild and merge the crafters guilds with the stone, wood and metal workers.

On the earlier idea you stated, about all the different races, you might want to narrow those down a bit. Its not possible to get those all to show up in a single world, and even if it was, then the weaker ones would die out very quickly.

Lastelly, you can allready mod in poisenous attacks, so long as they are innate creature attacks (not weapons). Creatures like GCS use it, you can give them stun, paralise or both. See the wiki for more details.

On the subject of Races, one idea I have for version 2 is to provide lots of options for people, and to make it easy for people to pick which ones they want to include. So I'll have a folder of races, and each race will have their own separate creature and entity files. So I'm perfectly happy to have lots of options, even if any given world will only be genned with a subset of them.

I like the idea of an Engineering guild. I might just merge Architect in with that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Angellus on July 15, 2009, 09:39:41 am

The 'zerg' race is to make your traps wear out, I personally love to put up lots and lots of traps, but they always tend to break a siege, I hope that this will help out on that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Exponent on July 15, 2009, 09:57:46 am

Quote from: Grimlocke on July 09, 2009, 03:09:28 pm

Is this 'zerg rush' the new internet fad? Dunno what it is, but I oppose the idea of putting any fad in a mod. They are soooo lame...

For reference, it is a term from the game StarCraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft) refering to the fictional Zerg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_of_StarCraft#Zerg) species.  To quote Wikipedia, "The phrase 'zerging' has entered video gaming jargon to describe using many low-cost and weak units to rush and overwhelm an enemy."

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Angellus on July 15, 2009, 02:59:14 pm

In any defence I plan I always look for strong enemy's so I'm always weak against zerg rushes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Blargityblarg on July 18, 2009, 03:03:22 am

In DF, elves are also considered to be the Zerg equivalents- and my modded Shade leves aren't much better:

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2uz6sg6.png)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on July 31, 2009, 04:01:16 pm

I've decided to go with Hill dwarves for the middle tier dwarves. They're much like the way the players use dwarves in DF, often cruel and warlike to other races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Heron TSG on July 31, 2009, 07:54:20 pm

Ooh! add a race of Landwhales!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: TheDJ17 on July 31, 2009, 08:06:25 pm

Quote from: Barbarossa the Seal God on July 31, 2009, 07:54:20 pm

Ooh! add a race of Landwhales!

With pet Land Sharks!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Lord Shonus on October 07, 2009, 01:22:54 pm

To be honest, I'd either change "chaos dwarves" to something else, or add a "chaos x" to every racial group (human, elf, goblinod, etc.) As it is, they really don't fit in with the other "evil" subraces.

Also, if you could make normal dwarves recognize "Hill" and "Chaos" dwarves as dwarves, the same way a goblin kidnapee is still a dwarf, that would be very good. Don't know if it will be possible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: shadowclasper on October 08, 2009, 12:15:03 am

If ya have jawas as a desert race, what about the Fremen. They're like desert dwarves, but with a warrior bent, they'd all start off with proficient in at least 1 weapon if that's possible. (They can also build wells without water access, as long as it is underground.)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Devast on October 08, 2009, 08:00:21 am

Big fan of Civforge (using it right now), your list of different casts is impressive, though I wonder how many/few would make it though worldgenning. anyway.
-The Eye race sounds like some Lovecraftian horror maybe have them live in the extremes of the world such as instant freeze/burn regions.
-Orcs are a great challenge especially when they ride GCS, adding to this challenge maybe make a race a 'zerg' like race with a lot of weak soldiers and make another race with few strong soldiers.
-Maybe buff or increase the numbers of megabeasts
-To the guy that mentioned demons...maybe add a dark wizard megabeast that shoots fireballs or something like that.
Just my 2c

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on October 14, 2009, 11:54:21 am

Question for people:

With the new custom workshops I'm rethinking how I want to handle things like the creation of Tempered Crystal, Blood Crystal, etc and the Infused Metals, like Incendium.

Obviously, they won't just happen in the normal smelter anymore.

I'm thinking of having a custom workshop for the Infusions. It'll probably use the Alchemy skill. Not sure yet what components it might need. Blocks and fuel, maybe a bin or barrel.

I'm having trouble deciding about the Crystal materials, though. Right now they just use Cinnabar and Cobaltite. I can do a lot more now, with taking extracts from minerals and whatnot and using those, so I'll probably have Quicksilver and something based on Cobalt. (Blue powder or something). But what else should we use? Gemstones, like the infused iron metals? Plant extracts?

What I eventually do will probably change based on what's actually possible, but I'm trying to get ideas and I'd like to get a sense from people. How much do you use Blood Crystal or Night Crystal right now? What about Void Crystal? They were originally added in to give you a way to make some decent metals without having them on-site (as long as you have cinnabar or cobaltite, at least. Rock crystal of course is all over the place). Not sure if that's how people use them in practice or not, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on December 23, 2009, 06:51:05 pm

I'm thinking of renaming the Dwarves three 'types' off of stones.

Granite Dwarves are the normal ones
Flint Dwarves are the middle group (Hill Dwarves)
Cinnabar Dwarves are the third group (Chaos Dwarves)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: carriontrooper on December 24, 2009, 06:34:32 am

obsidian dwarves for the chaos dwarves, obviously!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 01:01:39 pm

Another option is to have 'Tainted' dwarves, elves, men, etc for the Chaos versions.

Thinking about Castes this morning, and I think it might be neat to have the chaos tainted races have rare castes that show up with things like horns, tails, claws, glowing red eyes, stuff like that. Maybe even bizarre mutations like a single giant arm or skin made of bronze. Could add an interesting aspect to them that makes them more then just 'evil' versions of the good races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 11, 2010, 02:22:39 pm

Hmm... You know, I'm going to try to make my own mod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=50726.0), and I hadn't seen this thread before.  (Looking for feedback on it, by the way.)

Honestly, one of the things I want to do, however, is move away from the sort of Tolkienian fantasy world, especially where every race is a xenophobic always-one-race version.

Really, looking at these, though, the castes just seem to be good/evil versions of the same thing.  I can't say I really care for simply cookie-cuttering "always chaotic evil" over everything, at least, not without some kind of overarching storyline that would help explain it.  (Some version of a zombie virus that forces a certain ethos.) 

I like adding different races in principle, but I'd rather they have a social impact on the creatures that are already there, rather than simply being "oh, and this, too".

... then again, having said that, I can see some places where the same can be said for my own idea.  Well, that's something to revise, then.  I should put in more effort to create original species.

edit: Sorry, as I hit post, I realized I was only highlighting the percieved negatives...  I definitely support, at least, the basic idea of this, it's just that it doesn't quite match my tastes in fantasy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 02:36:07 pm

Well, one of my goals with Civilization Forge is to have a huge variety of options for players. Ultimately, it'll probably get to the point where even on large worlds you won't want to have every race out there. So I'll include my primitive beastmen civs (wolfmen, goatmen, turtlemen, etc), the standard fantasy races, the Xelics, and bizarre stuff like the Eye Creatures.

As Toady gives us more way to influence the cultures of the races I really want to expand on the differences available. Ultimately I expect that the end product will be one where it's less 'always chaotic evil' and more 'likely to pick a fight/be misunderstood/whatever' and those differences should be both cultural and racial. I want the Dyansauri to really be a warlike race. It's not that they're evil, ultimately, its that they are violent and destructive and without war to keep their warriors occupied they get bored and cause problems. Hobgoblins will be more expansionistic and bent on controlling other races. That sort of thing.

So I don't disagree with you. I'm just limited by what Dwarf Fortress will let me do.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 11, 2010, 03:10:11 pm

I have to wonder about how you're using castes here, though.

I was under the impression that castes, in spite of their name, really refers to a sort of sexual (or other) dimorphism within a species at its base.  This means a dwarf civ would spit out chaos dwarves as well as normal dwarves, if both are enabled.

What I was trying to go for was that creatures band together based upon their ethical outlooks and natural habitats, silly things like differences in races be darned.  I actually think that having "humans" or "elves" of slightly different flavors that are inegrated into very different civs would be a better solution, compared to sticking all humans into a single civ, regardless of philosophical outlook.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 03:22:11 pm

Yes, but that's a limitation with the game engine right now. You can't have civs form spontaneously from disaffected groups. They have to have a base race associated with them and other races only get added in through conquest or snatching.

So...for now, my only option is to make these different races, give them what cultural specifications I can, and make things as interesting as I can with them.

I do want to maintain some basic racial influences on culture, though. These aren't all just humans with funny bodies. I want the Dyansauri to *actually* be more violent and destructive then the other races. The Hobgoblins might have an inner need to control things around them that goes beyond what the other races feel. That sort of thing. If I could I'd want all cultures to arise from these sorts of instinctive behaviors and the various pressures the creatures get from each other and their surroundings.

Not sure if DF will ever get there, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

As for castes, I'm going to use them in a few ways. Most races will just have the male/female castes. The 'tainted' races will also have various 'mutation' castes that differentiate them from the others of their species. The Eye Creatures are going to have lots of castes that reflect the physical diversity amongst them.

Which means that 'tainted' dwarves will technically be a separate species from normal dwarves right now, but that's just another limitation to deal with I guess.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 11, 2010, 03:54:46 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 03:22:11 pm

Yes, but that's a limitation with the game engine right now. You can't have civs form spontaneously from disaffected groups. They have to have a base race associated with them and other races only get added in through conquest or snatching.

Which is exactly why I'm trying to use castes to create a civ out of multiple inter-breedable races.  Not to toot my own horn too much, but I'd like to see some more feedback on [url\http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=50726.0]what I have planned, myself[/url].

Quote

Which means that 'tainted' dwarves will technically be a separate species from normal dwarves right now, but that's just another limitation to deal with I guess.

Just looking at that little poll, it seems like tripling the number of races is going to essentially force players to mod out some of the races for the simple reason that the game wouldn't be able to fit them all, while at the same time, most players were just using the last version as-is.

Maybe you should consider making, for lack of a better term, "package deals" of selected races?  That is, have a pre-selected "all savage" set, a few different kinds of mixed sets, and some "noble sets" or a sets that have certain races likey to ally, while others seige.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 05:54:15 pm

Not a bad idea. I was going to provide some sets already (like Primitive or Classic Civ Forge sets). But, yeah, the idea is to set up a bunch of races for the player to choose from to have in their world. That way people who don't like standard High Fantasy races can ignore the High Elves and Hobgoblins and players who enjoy those elements can use them.


I looked at your idea. It's pretty interesting, although I think it might be really odd with the current limitations of the game engine. You'll get some interesting stories out of it, though!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2010, 06:57:40 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on October 14, 2009, 11:54:21 am

Question for people:

With the new custom workshops I'm rethinking how I want to handle things like the creation of Tempered Crystal, Blood Crystal, etc and the Infused Metals, like Incendium.

Obviously, they won't just happen in the normal smelter anymore.

I'm thinking of having a custom workshop for the Infusions. It'll probably use the Alchemy skill. Not sure yet what components it might need. Blocks and fuel, maybe a bin or barrel.

I'm having trouble deciding about the Crystal materials, though. Right now they just use Cinnabar and Cobaltite. I can do a lot more now, with taking extracts from minerals and whatnot and using those, so I'll probably have Quicksilver and something based on Cobalt. (Blue powder or something). But what else should we use? Gemstones, like the infused iron metals? Plant extracts?

What I eventually do will probably change based on what's actually possible, but I'm trying to get ideas and I'd like to get a sense from people. How much do you use Blood Crystal or Night Crystal right now? What about Void Crystal? They were originally added in to give you a way to make some decent metals without having them on-site (as long as you have cinnabar or cobaltite, at least. Rock crystal of course is all over the place). Not sure if that's how people use them in practice or not, though.

I assume that these elements/metal alloys will have some magical element to them as well, given their highly flavorful names. In that case, how about requiring some blood or flesh be sacrificed to create them in the form of chunks?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 07:06:15 pm

Makes sense for Blood Crystal. What about Night and Void crystal?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: darkflagrance on March 11, 2010, 07:12:20 pm

If the process of their creation is magical, the sacrifice of blood might be to provide life energy for the reaction.

Chunks could also be used in one infusion. However, this is just a flavor suggestion; you should fit it into the mod as it accords with your vision.

As for me, I will always have the memory of the dwarf in your Civforge fic getting his first piece of void crystal armor, so it has that unique significance for me, at least.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 07:15:14 pm

I really ought to go back and finish that story sometime...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on March 11, 2010, 08:35:34 pm

I gotta say, jawas and sand raiders seem glitched in the current one, they are ALWAYS hanging around in all major cities, and I got a seige of them once that were friendly........  Maybe replace them with something similar in the newer version, but maybe less stealth more kill?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2010, 08:56:01 pm

Hmmm, I haven't seen either of those behaviors. Are you running any mods alongside Civ forge?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on March 12, 2010, 08:47:50 pm

... just checked, got a double entry for them in mine XD  No wonder.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: bhamv on March 13, 2010, 08:17:39 am

Regarding using the crystal metals, I personally almost never make void crystal.  It's just too rare to get both cinnabar and cobaltite in decent amounts with any sort of regularity.  Since it's possible to search for flux but not to search for cinnabar and cobaltite, it's easier to set up my fortress for steel production rather than void crystal.

When I do get enough cinnabar and cobaltite for a few void crystal bars, though, I usually make armor out of it and give it to my top champions.

Blood crystal and night crystal are made if cinnabar or cobaltite are discovered, separately.  That's frequent enough to make them a feasible option.  A few weapon traps with blood crystal trap components can really bring the pain.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 13, 2010, 11:28:32 am

Yeah, Void crystal is supposed to be a bit rare (it's more powerful then Steel, after all), but Quartzite can have both Cobaltite and Cinnabar, so it is possible to actively search for a location likely to have both.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: bhamv on March 14, 2010, 02:15:34 am

Ooooo, I didn't know about Quartzite, I'll have to look for it in my next fortress.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Cheddarius on March 14, 2010, 02:46:01 am

Looks awesome.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 16, 2010, 10:01:41 am

I have a lot of thoughts about the metalworking industry. One aspect I was thinking was to make it a bit more involved and realistic. Steel, for example, would require a blast furnace and always requires charcoal or coke as part of the reaction. Magma would reduce the fuel requirements a bit, but you can't make steel without carbon.

To compensate, I'd make coal show up in larger batches and possibly give more coke per batch. Trees might also get a chopping block station to reduce them to 2 stacks of firewood so that you can get more charcoal out of wood.

If I wanted to be even more realistic I'd have a step where most ore is crushed and roasted before smelting (which would take even more fuel and dwarfpower). Personally, I like realism and would be fine with the extra steps. Metalworking is not a simple industry, after all.

However, I don't know if that would annoy people too much. And these changes would effect both reaction files and civ entity files, so it's not as simple as just saying 'don't include these files if you don't want more complex metalworking'.

What do you guys think?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on March 16, 2010, 10:24:34 am

Steel existed long before Blast Furnaces. You basically have three methods to get there.

- Blast Furnace: Ore > Pig Iron > Wrought Iron, then Wrought Iron + Pig Iron = Steel
- Crucible: Ore > Steel (but is a specialized and highly skilled operation that can go wrong), see Wootz Steel
- Forging: Ore > Bloom Iron (this step can sometimes yield various grades of steel or pig iron (which can not be used for anything and counts as a waste product at this tech level)) > Wrought Iron > Low Steel > Medium Steel > High Steel (with each step taking fuel which adds carbon until finely there is enough carbon in the iron to make it good weapon grade steel).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 16, 2010, 11:52:27 am

Hmmm, I'll have to look up Wootz Steel.

I think the Forging method for steel sounds like a good route for some other races, like Dyansauri or High Elves. Dwarves are going to be a bit higher tech then everyone else.

High Elves, of course, are probably going to be one of the few races with whatever method allows for Mithril (even if I can't get them to use it yet).

EDIT: Having looked up Wotz steel, it seems it relies on tungsten or vanadium impurities to work. So, perhaps not widely applicable enough. Might make for an interesting alternative, though, if you have the right minerals. I'll have to look into it some more.

EDIT 2: Looks like Gabbro can contain iron-titanium oxides in small amounts which can also contain vanadium. Ilmenite is actually a viable iron ore type found in Gabbro, so a Crucible Steel method that uses Ilmenite instead of other ores might work. Dwarves certainly go down deep enough to find Gabbro pretty often, so it's not unreasonable that they'd have figured something like this out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on March 16, 2010, 01:44:09 pm

The crucible method will still work with ore that does not contain impurities, it just won't make wootz steel (there are other similar steels to wootz (sometimes called damascus, but different from the pattern welded damascus of today), namely Bulat and Noric but others as well).

Pyrolusite occurs in the same areas as magnetite (oddly ilmenite occurs in those same areas, the raws seem to skip this but they are all found in black sand) thus I used an Enriched ore found in small clusters or single squares that occurred in magnetite, limonite, vanadinite (Pb5(VO4)3Cl), wolframite (FeWO4/MnWO4), pyrolusite (MnO2), hematite and black sand but only with a 50% chance of occurring. One of the odd things about this ore is that if you refine it normally the impurities will be removed by the flux with the slag (so you could have some really awesome ore on the map and not realize it and/or not know the method to refine it and retain the properties and just make regular iron out of it). Manganese will also cause similar properties to occur in steel.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_sand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_mineral_sands_ore_deposits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placer_deposit

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 16, 2010, 01:58:04 pm

Hmmm, might be a bit difficult to model properly in DF right now without things becoming unbalanced. Perhaps simply having black sand give small pockets of minerals? I'd go with a custom workshop to sort out minerals from sand with a small chance of success (to simulate the amount of effort needed to get worthwhile amounts of metal this way) but sand is currently limitless so that'd be a bit broken.

I kind of like the idea of having Enriched Black Sand stones in small pockets that you can process at a workshop with a small chance of getting Ore or specific Gemstones.

As far as Blast Furnaces vs Crucibles go I'll need to read about those more. Perhaps Blast Furnaces will be a more economical way to get large amounts of steel but Crucibles will be used for special steels (like Wootz) and more useful for small batches of steel. I could see the blast furnace requiring large amounts of ore and fuel to be used with any efficiency, but I'll have to read more to see if that's realistic.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on March 16, 2010, 02:18:36 pm

It is more of tech level thing than anything else (bloomery + forge superseded by crucible superseded by blast furnace), so perhaps different custom workshops used by different races (restricted by different skills). It wouldn't change them as opponents but it would change them if they were played (enhancing the differences between the races).

The Blast Furnace really needs power (windmill/waterwheel) to operate the bellows.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 16, 2010, 02:20:41 pm

Quote from: sunshaker on March 16, 2010, 02:18:36 pm

It is more of tech level thing than anything else (bloomery + forge superseded by crucible superseded by blast furnace), so perhaps different custom workshops used by different races (restricted by different skills). It wouldn't change them as opponents but it would change them if they were played (enhancing the differences between the races).

The Blast Furnace really needs power (windmill/waterwheel) to operate the bellows.

The power aspect is a good point.

And actually, I like that. Have the Blast Furnace be more efficient but require power, while the Crucible would allow for steel production until a blast furnace is possible. Giving the crucible the ability to make Wootz steel as well would just be a bonus.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 25, 2010, 12:05:12 pm

Moving on to the Infused metals.

I have a few ideas on this. For version 2, we're going to make the process more complicated but yield more usable bars per gem.

First off, we're going to use Alchemy. This is going to require a few different materials, which I'll probably use for other things as well.

We're going to use Aqua Regia for this. To get there, we'll need a few things:

   Vitrol (sulfuric acid) comes from a few places but I'll be using Melanterite, which for convenience will show up as small mineral pockets in coal and lignite deposits.

   Alum is a substance gotten from refining Alunite, Schist, Bauxite or Cryolite.

   Aqua fortis (Nitric Acid) is made from saltpeter and alum

   Aqua Regia is the gotten by combining Vitrol and Aqua Fortis together.

I'm simplifying the actual Alchemy needed to do all of this. Various salts and other things would actually be needed for these processes, but to keep things manageable I'll be going with these basic requirements. Glass vials are going to become very important! Fortunately, between the ability to trade for sand and the increased rock crystal in Civ Forge that won't be too hard.

Aqua Regia will then be used to dissolve the various gems down into an Elixir. You'll get 5 vials worth of Elixir for each Gem.

I still need to come up with names for the various Elixirs.

If you have all four gem types (Frost Crystals, Storm Crystals, Fire Hearts, and Ward Crystals) you can create a Pure Elixir, which will allow for the creation of Elementium. You will only get 5 vials worth, though, so you'll be sacrificing quantity for quality.

Now that we have the Elixir, we'll need somewhere to use it. That's where the Infusion Chamber comes in. The infusion chamber will require stone blocks, a barrel, and gold bars to build. Once it is built you will be able to combine a vial of the appropriate Elixir with Iron Bars to create the various Infused Metals. This process will not require fuel.

So, the end result of all of this is that trading for various minerals is going to be quite important but a small pocket of gems will now give you a much more useful cache of metals to work with.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: xoen on March 25, 2010, 12:27:36 pm

Bravo. Definitely interesting(sorry for my short, useless input, though).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on March 25, 2010, 01:08:19 pm

It might be interesting to vary the ingredients needed based on the gem in question (fire gem needs something fire related or maybe something water related).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: bhamv on March 25, 2010, 01:17:31 pm

That looks quite complicated, as well as having quite specific requirements (coal/lignite veins, saltpeter, the alum stones) so the end result would probably need to be suitably powerful.  Otherwise there's not much incentive to try to go for the infusion metals when steel is so plentiful.  Still, it sounds well cool though.

Plus, hey, something useful for all that alunite!  That's a definite plus in my book!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 25, 2010, 01:20:55 pm

@sunshaker: Not a bad idea, although I'll have to play with it. This system is already adding a lot of complexity to the infusion process, and I don't want to make it so difficult that no one ever bothers to make them.

Yeah, I imagine one of the reasons they aren't used so often right now is that there isn't a major incentive to use them over steel. They're better (for the most part) than steel in the current version, but the difference has such a limited actual effect on the game that I don't know how much people care.

It's quite possible that there will be a larger demand for these in the next version. Using Incendium weapons, for example, might make fighting a Bronze Colossus doable in a way that mere steel doesn't. But we'll have to see. I'd love to have Glacium actually have a stronger effect against Fire based enemies, but I'm not sure if that'll be possible or not. I'll have to see.

Fortunately, I'll have the Arena mode to actually test these changes.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention in my original post that Saltpeter can actually be created using Potash. It requires urine and some other stuff, but was actually made rather then mined during the middle ages. So I'll probably make a potash->saltpeter reaction in the alchemists shop. That'll make this a bit easier.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 25, 2010, 02:19:46 pm

Added a poll. I'm curious to see what aspects people are most interested in. I'll probably be doing bits and pieces of everything as I go along, but if people have a strong preference for one area over another I can focus on that first.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: JanusTwoface on March 25, 2010, 04:17:08 pm

Regarding your earlier question about the more interesting metals, I just wanted to say that I alternate between Dig Deeper and Civ Forge, but I don't have much experience with metal industries of any sort.  However, based on the discussion of new metals requiring Alchemists and the like, I think I'll definitely have to check that out once the new version is out and Civ Forge is updated.

That being said, +1 to new races.  I like the flavor of Civ Forge and it's neat to see a few different races visiting my fortress that might otherwise not show up.

Anyways, that's my two cents, keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 26, 2010, 11:05:42 am

Looks like new races is the preference so far. Which doesn't surprise me.

I'll probably go with the following:

First release will have:
  1) Basic game balance changes (fix crop seasons, fix alloy ratios for bronze/brass, etc)
  2) Classic Civilization Forge Races
  3) New basic stones and gems (Nivocite, Amazonite, etc)
  4) New Weapons and Armor for racial differentiation (like lamellar)
  5) Civilization Forge plants (at least the basics, like glow caps)

After that, we'll see how things go. I'll still have new animals to put in, all of the expanded races, plus the new metals and alchemy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: JanusTwoface on March 26, 2010, 11:09:11 am

Only a week (ish) until the next release! Out of curiosity, how long do you think you'll spend playing vs modding after it first comes out? :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 26, 2010, 11:15:35 am

Knowing me? I'll probably start modding the same day it comes out. Well, depending on how much time I have that day, at least. But I expect I'll start a lot of the basic modding almost immediately (like fixing the alloy ratios)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on March 26, 2010, 04:27:11 pm

Other uses for Alchemy: Extracting Mithril and Levisum

I'm thinking of using Alchemy (the skill, at least, not necessarily the workshop) to make the extraction of Mithril and Levisium from Truesilver and Levitite more interesting. It'll also provide more of an in-game reason why most races can't use them, even though it's not that hard to find sites where they're just sticking out of the walls.

Aqua Fortis (Nitric Acid) was used historically to separate silver from copper deposits. A separation chamber of some sort could prove a good way to do the same with Mithril and Levisium and give the alchemists more to do. Alloys would then be created using normal smelting methods, possibly including further alchemical mixtures.

As a side note, I'm going to probably rename all of the alchemical mixes using the dwarven language instead. So instead of Aqua Fortis (Strong Water) we'd use Midor Arel (power water - since we don't have a direct word for Strong in dwarven).

I also had a thought while reading up on Charcoal production. Apparently a well-made charcoal oven would produce much more usable charcoal then a poorly built one. Which makes sense. So I'm thinking of making a custom workshop that is a Finely Crafted Wood Furnace that requires stone blocks to build. That would then produce two charcoal or ash for each log. Makes a tree-based fuel economy a bit more sustainable.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 02, 2010, 12:27:41 pm

And so it begins. Not even a day could pass with the new version before I started modding it. Mostly balance issues, but a few new things got added as well.

Bronze, Bismuth Bronze, and Brass have been rebalanced so that they require much more copper per tin/zinc.
Aboveground crops have been given seasons
Belowground crops have been set to not have seasons

Added elements:
Blueberries, Raspberries, Blackberries, Cotton, and Glow Caps have all made it in. Adding plants seems to be pretty straightforward, so the others will all make it in shortly, I think.

Additional balancing to do: Mineral frequencies and values (Platinum should never show up in anything other then small clusters, ore should be worth less then processed metal, rock crystal needs to be more common)

Next I'll probably add in the new non-ore stones and gems, like Nivocite and Amazonite.

After that, I may tackle a few basic animals (Like the Giant Beetles, Cave Crabs, pigs, and chickens) or see about modding in a few new races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 02, 2010, 01:44:20 pm

Can't wait for the update. For some reason it amuses me greatly to equip my military in chicken leather armor. (and with uniforms it's all the easier)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 03, 2010, 05:14:47 am

very interested as well, i miss having so many trade caravans and sieges.

re: new non-ores, i was curious; Nivocite seemed to be primarily an igneous extrusive replacement for bauxite; with new melting points for stone making many more things magma-safe, is it much use now?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 03, 2010, 09:57:04 am

Yeah, Nivocite itsn't really needed anymore. But it's a neat looking stone and I enjoy making stuff out of it, so it'll go back in anyway.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 12:09:56 pm

Been doing a bit more work. Got most of the ore balancing done. Ilmenite is also now a viable source of Iron (it shows up in veins). It's also mostly found in Gabbro, so that'll be helpful for traditionally iron poor maps. I have special plans for that ore later (Wootz steel), but that'll have to wait until I get to custom workshops.

Currently working on getting my domestic animals back in. I think I have pigs and chickens working ok. Cave Crabs work in the arena, but I haven't managed to get them to be a dwarf-specific domestic animal yet. They might just end up being common in top cave layers and easily tamed and trained. We'll see. I also need to check to see if they drop usable shells for moods.

After that, Beetles!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 06, 2010, 12:48:54 pm

Out of curiosity, are you going to put mithril in again, and, if so, what will the difference be between it and adamantine?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 12:59:17 pm

Mithril will be going in again. Haven't decided its exact properties yet, but it'll probably be similar to how it was. Stronger than steel and lighter, but not as ridiculous as Adamantine. The various alloys will also go back in, and I expect that we'll find Orihalcum hammers and maces to be pretty nasty.

However, none of that will be in the first release. I'll be doing custom workshops, the new metals, and alchemy for the second release.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on April 06, 2010, 02:37:02 pm

I have a metal/mineral suggestion and it in part answers the question "where do the kobolds get copper if they can't mine/smelt/etc?" Nuggets of copper, silver and gold, these would be effectively pure metals that do not need processing to be used. It would work as a simple reaction that doesn't need fuel or other refining/processing methods to convert, the mineral would not have a metal_ore token, but would use a straight 1 stone = 1 bar custom reaction, value of the stone and the bar should be equal.

For more information see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_metal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Copper_Complex

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 02:41:38 pm

Hmmm, not a bad idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 06, 2010, 02:46:35 pm

@Mephansteras:
- Have you released a version for 0.31.01 yet?  Or were you waiting to finish more of the mod and releasing in a complete pack?
- Random note, the link on the DFFD page (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=161) for the DF Wiki points to the old URL.  It should point here (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Civilization_Forge)

@sunshaker
- You should totally send that over to the new Kobold Camp (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52540) thread as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 02:53:01 pm

I haven't released a version for 31.01 yet. I don't need it to be complete, but I want to have at least a bunch of the core Civilization Forge elements in it. Right now all I have is some balancing and a few new crops/animals.

I might release an interim version once I have a few races in. Probably High Elves, Chaos Dwarves (still need to decide on a name for them) and the Xelics, since they give a good mix of additions.

The Wiki needs to be updated, yeah. I need to retag that page as the old version of the mod and get a new page up for the current version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 06, 2010, 03:00:07 pm

Are Chaos Dwarves worshiping evil gods/equivalent or are they crazy?

It would be funny if they were crazy and wore/used silly things for helmets/armor/weapons. Don Quixote-like Dwarves.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: adam-s on April 06, 2010, 03:03:12 pm

Very interested in this as well. This was one of my can't-do-without-it things on the previous versions and I'm missing the nonstop siege/ambush/trade badly. Props for an awesome mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 03:27:11 pm

@Org: Still trying to figure that out. I may shift them to being Tainted Dwarves, and add in Tainted Men and Elves as well. And maybe Vamarii. I think the Tainted races would be more like the normal races, except they'd have a more goblinish social structure (no real laws, rule by might, that sort of thing) and they'd get bizarre mutant castes that would show up. So you'd get dwarves with a giant crab claw for a hand or elves covered in scales and stuff like that. Something to really set them apart from the normal evil races.

@adam-s: Glad you like it! Keep an eye on the OP, that's where I document where I'm at with everything, along with the occasional post I make.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Deon on April 06, 2010, 03:48:17 pm

I have dusk elves which are pretty much High Elves which hunt animals, also I will have deep dwarves within a day so you may borrow something if you have difficulties with the new version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 04:00:49 pm

Thanks, Deon. I haven't had any trouble so far, mostly just a lack of time to really dig in and get modding.

Have you noticed any oddities with modding Civs compared to the previous version?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 11:30:40 pm

I've been adding in the various RAW corrections from here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=52747.0). I've also corrected the trade capacity for animals, so they're much more realistic now (mules carry about 200lbs of stuff).

Going well. Still testing a few things with that, and I've yet to get cave crabs to be domestic but only for dwarves, but hopefully I'll make more progress on that soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Lofn on April 06, 2010, 11:43:39 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 06, 2010, 04:00:49 pm

Thanks, Deon. I haven't had any trouble so far, mostly just a lack of time to really dig in and get modding.

Have you noticed any oddities with modding Civs compared to the previous version?

Castes and the body/tissue tokens can lead to some confusing errors, and secretions like to be stubborn and illogical, but apart from that most of it is pretty straightforward.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Deon on April 07, 2010, 12:12:13 am

Huh, I didn't see anything illogical yet. There's much more chance to make an error now though, with all the details :P.

If you manage to find out a simple way to limit a creature to dwarves it would be nice. I just haven't tried it yet, but I will have to try it soon (I want a race of dwarves with automatons).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 07, 2010, 11:35:08 am

Yeah, I'll let people know if I manage it. Not sure what I'm going to do with the Guardians if I can't. Maybe make them a very rare caste of dwarf? That could be cool.

Made Obsidian properly black again last night. That medium-gray it is in normal DF just bugs me, especially since I'm in an Obsidian and Marble mountain right now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 07, 2010, 04:40:17 pm

Spent my lunch break working on various beetles. I now have Spike Beetles (kind of hostile, about the size of cats), Sugar Beetles, Giant Beetles, and just did Giant Ants.

They all work in the arena pretty well, now I just need to test them in fortress mode. I should probably also take an adventurer around, see if I see them wandering around forests and such.

Oh, and Giant Ants now try to steel food. And you can get Queens, so if you get a queen and a drone you can breed an army of the little bastards. They're exotic pets, but trainable.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Lord Shonus on April 07, 2010, 07:18:22 pm

Are you going to use blood for anything?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 07, 2010, 07:21:57 pm

Well, we keep getting barrels of it. If that's not a bug, I might use it for Blood Crystal.

Does anyone know if we can purposefully get barrels of blood? Extract from a creature, maybe?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 08, 2010, 12:56:25 am

if it's not a bug, i'd probably set it to edible_cooked to make awesome dwarven blood sausages. I don't know about obtaining it from butchering animals, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on April 08, 2010, 11:07:11 am

well you create a 1/7 pool of blood whenever you butcher an animal, and I set my shop up to collect those so I now have a blood well... and a dwarf just got a drink out of it, so maybe it's a better then water, worse then beer type drink?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 11:20:57 am

Did you change something in the raws to collect it? Or did you do something else?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on April 08, 2010, 11:56:41 am

made a grate with a pit underit in the doorway of my butcher's shop, then slaughtered every animal in the fort!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 11:57:54 am

I think you've just discovered how to make actual blood rivers! I'm impressed!

I'll have to test this out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 08, 2010, 12:12:00 pm

Quote from: kilakan on April 08, 2010, 11:56:41 am

made a grate with a pit underit in the doorway of my butcher's shop, then slaughtered every animal in the fort!

Win!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on April 08, 2010, 02:23:33 pm

humm seems to be a glitch, or very hard to reproduce, because in my other fort, it's just not collecting... though it should since they are liquids now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 02:27:02 pm

Maybe something to do with the size creature you're butchering?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 08, 2010, 02:30:32 pm

I've had problems with blood being tracked everywhere by dwarves, the blood in question may not be butcher-related

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on April 08, 2010, 02:31:45 pm

well once I get some more animals... due to them all being dead, I'm gonna try it again, with just cows, then dogs, and see if there's a difference.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 02:33:40 pm

EDIT: Hmmm, just did a test fort that only brought cows/horses/mules and some butchers (and one miner to get stone to dig a pit and get stone)

Slaughtered four animals, no blood present anywhere.

Perhaps using the military Kill order on animals standing on grates might do it? Needs more tests.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 08, 2010, 08:31:28 pm

You can buy blood at the embark screen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 09:04:07 pm

Oh, yes, but I need to discover how to *get* blood from animals you have in fortress mode if you don't have any.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 08, 2010, 09:11:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 09:04:07 pm

Oh, yes, but I need to discover how to *get* blood from animals you have in fortress mode if you don't have any.

Hmmm...
let me try

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on April 08, 2010, 11:08:47 pm

Hey Meph, have you done an update of your "Extra Civs" mod? The one that turns most of the Animal-Men races into lesser civs that trade?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 11:11:25 pm

Not yet. It's planned, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on April 08, 2010, 11:19:00 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 11:11:25 pm

Not yet. It's planned, though.

Awesome... Do you mind If I make a humble request?

Do you think you could take out "Frogmen" form the group and add in "Satyrs" ?There was a "Satyr Mod" a while ago and I always wanted to merge it with your civ mod

EDIT:

found the Satyr Mod link if yoru interested
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1276

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2010, 11:56:31 pm

I probably won't take Frogmen out, but I could make a Saytr mod easily enough.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 09, 2010, 10:04:58 am

Bearmen!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 10, 2010, 09:35:07 pm

My girlfriend broke her arm, so I've been busy taking care of her. But, I have gotten a little work done.

Cave Crabs work properly now, as do Giant, Sugar, and Spike beetles. Haven't seen Fire Beetles or Giant Ants, yet, but hopefully they'll wander in sometime soon.

Next up I'll probably add in the last few plants and start working on the first batch of races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 10, 2010, 09:38:11 pm

Oh no

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: kilakan on April 10, 2010, 11:08:33 pm

OH YA!
(http://scienceblogs.com/isisthescientist/kool%20aid%20man.png)
...sorry for your girlfriend, just couldn't resist though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on April 11, 2010, 11:22:13 am

Hope your Girlfriend feels beter and the bones knit soon! Send here all of our hugs!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 11, 2010, 12:37:50 pm

Thanks guys, I'll let her know. :)

Fixed a bug with my the insects and cave crabs so that they can breed now. Once I've confirmed that I'll move on to the next set of items (rest of the plants and a few new races).

The first Abandoned World will probably be up sometime later today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 12, 2010, 12:14:13 am

For those that are interested, the first Abandoned world (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51208.0) is up.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 13, 2010, 12:40:57 pm

Currently working on some racial additions. High Elves are pretty much done, and I've started working on the Sand Raiders (since they're pretty easy to do).

Question for people: Would anyone be willing to do some long-life test forts for me? I have a few things I'd like to see tested (like actually seeing Giant Ants show up) but I don't want to slow down my work on the mod long enough to run a fort to the point where I see them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 13, 2010, 04:48:15 pm

Ill try.
What version? .28 right

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 13, 2010, 05:03:22 pm

Of DF? Latest, so 31.03 right now. Basically, I need some extra forts run for longer periods of time to test things. I'll want to see stuff like Ant behavior in fortress mode or Sand Raider sieges and the like. Stuff that takes too long for me to sit around and wait for, but I want to know how it works in practice for a real fort.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 13, 2010, 05:40:31 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 13, 2010, 05:03:22 pm

Of DF? Latest, so 31.03 right now. Basically, I need some extra forts run for longer periods of time to test things. I'll want to see stuff like Ant behavior in fortress mode or Sand Raider sieges and the like. Stuff that takes too long for me to sit around and wait for, but I want to know how it works in practice for a real fort.

Ill try.
But I kinda suck because of the farming stuff.
Can dwarves have above ground plants?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 13, 2010, 05:56:09 pm

Yeah, you can farm aboveground pretty easily. Just have an herbalist harvest a bunch of stuff and you'll have plenty of seeds to farm with.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 13, 2010, 06:00:24 pm

Cool, ill grab it later.
Got some hamlet to translate.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 13, 2010, 06:45:17 pm

File's not up yet. I'll post a link when I have a build to test.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 13, 2010, 08:23:13 pm

Cool.
Ready whenever.
Kinda.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 14, 2010, 10:28:01 am

Ok, the first Test version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2101) is up. I could use feedback from long-term forts on this version, mostly about the new animals and races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 14, 2010, 11:18:23 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 14, 2010, 10:28:01 am

Ok, the first Test version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2101) is up. I could use feedback from long-term forts on this version, mostly about the new animals and races.

will give it a try, thanks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:23:06 pm

Testing now

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:25:36 pm

Spelling Edit:
Queen Giant Ant: Colonys->Colonies
might be for all Giant ants

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:38:37 pm

Okay, pigs dont seem to drown

Pig:
A medium sized animal bred for it's meat.


That is wrong

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 14, 2010, 05:39:45 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. Might just have natural swimming. Can you drown a cow or a mule?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:44:41 pm

Ill check.

Also, a pig almost killed a shark.
Edit, it just did.
A few seconds after piggy died, the shark bled to death.

DOUBLE EDIT: Yeah, it must be natural swimming

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:47:24 pm

Wait...
when I assume control, it says Drowning!
What is this?
Hmmm

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 14, 2010, 05:49:43 pm

Okay, it seems that some squares had more water, although all are filled up to the same level...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 14, 2010, 05:49:57 pm

Odd.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 15, 2010, 05:00:08 pm

Ok, just uploaded a new version of the Test files (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2101).

Changes:
  Fixed some minor typos
  Added civ language files
  Added Giant Wasps and Redstripe Wasps (along with some associated body & description files)

Just download and overwrite your raw files with these.

Thanks for any input you guys can give me. I haven't had much time to play lately and getting a long-term fortress to test everything is very time consuming!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 19, 2010, 12:24:54 pm

New version of the Test Files (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2160) is now up.

New Items:
High Elves
Sand Raiders
Tainted Dwarves (were Chaos dwarves in CF 1)
New Plants (Glow Caps, Raspberries, Blueberries, Blackberries, Cotton)
New Animals (Chickens, Pigs, Cave Crabs, Giant Beetles, Sugar Beetles, Spike Beetles, Giant Ants, Redstripe Wasps, Giant Wasps)

Changed Items:
Dwarves have Trapavoid
Alloys have been rebalanced
Crops seasons have been rebalanced
Cows now have a third caste, Ox, which is sterile and used as a pack animal (represents castrated males trained for hauling)
Trade capacity has been rebalanced and made reasonable (~200lbs for a mule, for example)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Deon on April 19, 2010, 12:30:22 pm

Quote

Trade capacity has been rebalanced and made reasonable (~200lbs for a mule, for example)

That's a right approach, I've made the same. In the vanilla they carry like a truck :P.

Also, happy to see it's being developed. I dig Sand Raiders' flavor :).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 19, 2010, 01:37:53 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 19, 2010, 12:24:54 pm

New version of the Test Files (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2160) is now up.

fantastic.

I've only had about a 2.5-year fort before a completely weird crash bug wiped out most of my progress, but some small feedback:

-noticed that chickens now give leather; dunno if this is intended (or avoidable), as i know in the old civforge they didn't. It makes them pretty powerful, especially being only 6 points apiece on embark. 10 breeders will easily turn into over a hundred in 2 years, and is significantly cheaper than a pair of pigs or a single horse

-sugar beetles have a very low maxage, the pair i had on embark died by the second spring. There were plenty of them roaming in the first underground level, but they could use a bit of a life extension regardless.

edit: also, i liked "chaos dwarves" better  ;D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 19, 2010, 01:44:20 pm

Chickens gave leather back in the old version too. It's kind of silly but it'd also be weird for them not to have a skin layer. I'll look into it, though. Maybe I can do something to balance it.

I've had a sugar beetle die on embark too, so upping the max age for them it probably a good idea.

As for the Chaos/Tainted dwarves I'm still deciding on that. I'm also going to have chaos tainted humans and elves, and 'tainted men' just sounds better to me than 'chaos men'. But it's still a debatable item.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 19, 2010, 02:09:06 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 19, 2010, 01:44:20 pm

Chickens gave leather back in the old version too. It's kind of silly but it'd also be weird for them not to have a skin layer. I'll look into it, though. Maybe I can do something to balance it.

I've had a sugar beetle die on embark too, so upping the max age for them it probably a good idea.

As for the Chaos/Tainted dwarves I'm still deciding on that. I'm also going to have chaos tainted humans and elves, and 'tainted men' just sounds better to me than 'chaos men'. But it's still a debatable item.

hm. I remembered the chickens having the [noskin] or something tag back in 40d16 version. Ah well, it's not really gamebreaking anyhow; worst comes to worst, just bump the cost up by 2-3 points and all's well.

I see your point with chaos men. I suppose you could do something like 'chaos barbarians' with humans, but it wouldn't be very descriptive of the race in general.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 19, 2010, 03:21:34 pm

Maybe call them cursed men

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 20, 2010, 01:56:23 pm

I've been doing some more actual modding. Vamarii and Xelics work in the Arena and show up during world gen, though I haven't seen them in fortress mode yet. Also just went through and added in all of the new rocks and gems (except for the elemental gems and the new ores). Rock Crystal should also be suitably common again. Chert is also a nice dark grayish-blue now, as well as sharp, and flint has been added in to show up in limestone and chalk. It is, of course, also sharp.

Sugar Beetles should live a bit longer now, so you shouldn't have too many of them die on you before they start breeding.

I need to actually test all of this fortress mode, but if I keep modding at this rate I may have a potentially buggy first release of Civilization Forge by this weekend. Obviously, any feedback you guys can give me from the test files I've put out there will be appreciated since I'd like to catch as many bugs as possible ahead of time.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 21, 2010, 02:08:19 pm

The next Abandoned World (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=51208.0) is now up!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 23, 2010, 01:18:31 pm

Added in the code to make Chitin tannable, which should make the various beetles a little more useful after butchering.

I'm hoping to get the last few civilizations done in the next few days. I might also add in some new weapon and armor types, but they might not make it into the initial release. We'll see what I decide to work on.


Anyone have any feedback from the test files yet?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 23, 2010, 03:08:08 pm

Aaaand, I got inspired to add in some new armor over lunch. So we now have chain vests, chain hauberks (long chain coats), Lamellar armor, Heavy Lamellar (basically long coats of lamellar), scale armor (identical to chain, but there for flavor), scale hauburks, and chain mail coifs.

I can't do that much with the new armor system, sadly, but I think the new variety will be nice. Chain vests should only take 1 bar of metal, so it's a cheap light way to armor a soldier a bit. Hauberks take 3 bars but provide very good protection. The chain coif offers a little better protection than a cap, though it's flexible so I think it won't work as well against bludgeoning. It can also be worn under a helm, and the combination is very protective.

All of this needs more testing, but it worked about right in the Arena.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 23, 2010, 11:40:57 pm

Can offer some more small stuff.

- Ambushes seem very fierce. I had four ambushes my second (1 year after embark) spring, which is double-terrifying when you realize that two squads of them were tainted dwarves that would have waltzed through traps and rampaged through my fortress if i didn't hide like a little girl behind my walls. The spring after that caught me a migrant wave of 26 who were all slaughtered by a total of seven ambushes, including four tainted dwarven ones. I like the challenge, so no complaints from me, although others may find it a bit too strong.
-However, because of the above, I haven't really been able to break about 40 dwarves, so no sieges.

Creatures:
-Giant wasps and the redstripe wasps are a bit terrifying, although lots of that is because I've been having problems with crossbows and equipment from military-setup bugs. Dogs seem very driven to attack the giant wasps when they appear, which can be somewhat of a problem as the wasps are so much more powerful that they'll frequently rip the dogs in two (literally) before you even notice there's combat going on. Might reduce their strength a bit and focus more on paralyzing/venomous aspects?
-No sign of fire beetles or giant ants after three years or so.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 24, 2010, 10:36:12 am

Okay, so I am going to embark again, and I have ten thousand embark points, just so I can take a bunch of stuff and take some animals to make sure they aren't bugged.

I took two of every animal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 24, 2010, 10:45:18 am

Sorry, not two of each animal.

Two of each animal GENDER. OH MY GOD I HAVE THREE PAGES OF TAMED BEASTS.

Edit:Make sure to fix the typo in the pig's description. It says "it is bred for it's meat".
That would mean it is bred for it is meat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 24, 2010, 11:28:00 am

Pig should be fixed for the Second Test files. Org, are you using the first or second set? In any case I've confirmed that they're fixed for the next version.

On the wasps, have you tried sending War Beetles against them? Giant Beetles fared pretty well in Arena mode against both types of wasp. In fact, War Beetles are probably one of your best bets against attackers in general. I've seen three of them take out 6 armed and armored goblins in the arena. I can also slow them down a bit, I suppose, which would make them a little less nasty. It does sound like they might be a little unfair until marksdwarves get fixed, though. But hopefully Toady will fix that soon.

Fire beetles are rare and only in savage areas, so I'm not too surprised they haven't showed up. Disappointing about the ants, though. I'll have to look at their raws, since I haven't seen any either.

The Ambush issue is interesting. I've had some forts that got to their second winter before any ambushes showed up at all. Not sure if that's luck or just a lack of wealth in those forts. I'll have to keep playing with it, but it's good to know.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 24, 2010, 12:37:21 pm

I stopped playing. The vermin bug is driving me crazy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 24, 2010, 03:37:37 pm

That they don't rot? It's not a big deal. Just set up a dumping area outside and periodically set all of the vermin corpses to be dumped. Works just fine. Or set up a trash compactor with a bridge somewhere and crush them out of existence.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 24, 2010, 05:24:18 pm

I added in the crematorium workshop from elsewhere on the forums (with some minor alterations for balance) to deal with the vermin remains problem, i quite like it so far as it makes cats actually useful, for once.

as to the giant beetles, I haven't gotten enough breeders to properly test their combat abilities. The military will be fixed soon enough though and everything will be fine.

Ambushes may also be a fluke, I had to re-gen to add in the workshop, so we'll see this time around.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 11:26:07 am

The new armors seem to work pretty well. They might need a few tweaks, but overall I'm happy with the variety they add in.

Currently working on getting the last few civs added in (Bugbears, Dyansauri, Hobgoblins, Frost Giants, and Jawas).

I'll probably add in some new weapons during this, if nothing else the Dire weapons for the Frost Giants.

I'm also playing around with Arrkalz material balance mod, so those changes might make it in as well if I think they help.

My latest fort has survived a few ambushes. It's been nasty, but not too much nastier than it would have been in 40d so I think we're pretty good there. We'll see if the balance mod changes effect that or not.

I'm hoping to have a preliminary release sometime this week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: SugaSuga on April 26, 2010, 03:57:48 pm

Ill be trying this out, buut it might be helpful to other if you update the Original post so people dont have to dig for links.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 03:59:19 pm

Easy enough to do.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 06:52:51 pm

All right, Test Set 3 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2241) is up!

It includes almost all of the original Civilization Forge races (Frost Giants are all that is left to do), a few fixes to the animals, and the new armors! I'm also including Arrkahlz balance mod, so combat should be a bit more sane. I think it still has a few issues (axes are still probably overpowered), but you'll find that maces and hammers are now good weapons against armored foes.

Have fun and let me know what you think could stand fixing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 26, 2010, 06:57:13 pm

Were pigs weakened?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 06:58:21 pm

Pigs needed weakening? The only thing I knew to do with them was fix the typo...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Org on April 26, 2010, 06:59:09 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 06:58:21 pm

Pigs needed weakening? The only thing I knew to do with them was fix the typo...

A somewhat beat-up pig was able to kill a mako shark a few seconds after the pig bled out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2010, 07:04:12 pm

Hmm. Well, lots of stuff was changed in the material balance mod I got from Arrkalz, so...maybe. In any case pigs are docile so I don't expect them to do much fighting. They certainly aren't any nastier than cows are horses.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 27, 2010, 11:22:03 am

A few things I've noticed and wanted to let people know about.

1) Minor Metal is gone, so all races at least use bronze/iron now. This means that bugbears are no longer pushovers. They're big and strong, and if possible you'll want to have steel to fight them with.
2) Bronze is currently better than Iron for both weapons and armor. Steel is better than both, of course.
3) For those that don't know, the game gives you at [/i]least[/i] one of each armor type/level. This means that you might end up with just one chain/scale/lamellar type armor for your dwarves, or you may end up with several types available. One fort of mine could make Chain Shirts, Chain Hauberks, and Scale Armor. My latest fort just gets chain vests.
4) You'll want to make heavy use of Giant Beetles. Two moderately skilled dwarves armed in iron and four untrained giant beetles managed to take out 7 iron armored goblins of various types. Two beetles died and one dwarf was injured, but you can see how effective the beetles are during an attack.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 27, 2010, 04:07:24 pm

Spent my lunch break working on Weapons, since I needed to add in the Dire weapons for Frost Giants anyway.

So, we now have Clubs, Hand Axes, War Axes, Raven's Beaks, Skullcrackers (Kind of a dwarf sized Maul), Flambards, Kopeshes, Falcatas, Mattocks, and Bastard Swords along with the Giant's Dire weapons.

I need to actually test most of these out now to see how balanced they are. A few simple tests showed that clubs are definitely worse than maces (as they should be) but Hand axes seem to be better than Battle Axes in certain circumstances. Probably because they're lighter and allow for more attacks, but I need to do more tests to figure out exactly what is going on.

Upside is that I'm getting very close to a full release. I need to add in Frost Giants and the rest of the new plants and do a bunch of testing, but I think we're almost there.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 28, 2010, 12:59:34 pm

Got the Frost Giants working last night, and added in some more armor.

We now have chain, scale, and lamellar gloves to go along with the normal plate gauntlets (which cover more of the arm and are generally cooler)
Scale and Lamellar leggings have joined the chain leggings, since it seemed odd that civs that don't use chain still used chain for legs
I also added in some more shield options. Regular shields were renamed Round Shields, and I added in Kite and Tower shields which are larger and Targes which are smaller round shields but larger than bucklers.

I have not had a chance to test those outside of the Arena, though, so I'm not 100% sure what the effect will be in fortress mode.

Over all, though, things are shaping up nicely. I still need to get around to adding in the last few plants and I have some more testing to do to make sure nothing breaks horribly. But I'm on track for the initial release to be this weekend.

Any feedback from Test set 3?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 28, 2010, 02:40:37 pm

New poll is up. Trying to figure out what to call the chaos tainted races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 29, 2010, 12:00:33 pm

Not much to report today. Spent a good while last night testing things. So far things look good.

I did finally have some giant ants show up. Nasty things. They rushed my fort and ended up killing two of my weaker recruits before we took them down. Soldier ants are scary, considering that one soldier killed both of my recruits and both recruits were wearing almost complete sets of armor and had weapons. So I'm happy with the ants. I'm also happy that I had my defenses up and a pair of war beetles tied up at the gate before they showed up. I could easily see a swarm of ants taking out an entire embark party if you were unlucky enough to have them on the map when you first show up.

Anyone have any experience with later caravans? Do wagons ever show up, or is that bugged somehow in 31.03?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 29, 2010, 12:54:58 pm

Ok, so after poking around a bit I've discovered that wagons never showing up is a known bug. Since it's not on the list of things fixed for 31.04, I need to do something about that.

Fortunately, I have an easy workaround. One of my forts has the Dwarven Civ in a tropical area and brought Elephants as pack animals, which mimic a wagon's trade capacity pretty well. So, I'll just add in some more large pack animal creatures.

Wolly Mammoths will show up again for Tundra areas, and I'm going to add in a huge animal called a Land Strider for temperate grasslands. That should fix things up a bit.

I also noticed that the WAGON_PULLER tag was missing from the various pack animals, so I'm adding that in. Not sure that'll help, though, since people have reported adding that tag to horses without the caravans showing up with wagons. But..eh, maybe it'll help.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Ampoliros on April 29, 2010, 07:41:51 pm

Chaos dwarves, tainted (or twisted) men of chaos, dark elves.

anyhow, finally bothered to fix my slow FPS, reapply some of the old civ forge graphics, and managed to burn through a couple years of dwarfing with release three. I had a vamarii caravan show up with an outpost liason my first winter, which was nice, except he greeted me with a dwarven greeting ("Greetings from the Mountainhomes" "Farewell, our fortunes rise and fall together", etc)...and instead of handling requests, simply wasted my leader's precious stockpile updating time by complementing my architecture. Dunno if that's expected workings or not.

No wagons thus far in my my fort, but we'll see. My ambush-heavy fort from a few days past seems to be a fluke, which is good. More testing will be coming soon(tm).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: sunshaker on April 29, 2010, 07:43:40 pm

Maybe make horses pack animals (muskoxen didn't seem to have a problem being both).

I'm not really playing DF2010 yet as I'm waiting for a Linux build (old machine+Wine+DF2010=Super Low FPS).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
Post by: Mephansteras on April 29, 2010, 07:57:49 pm

Horses should be pack animals. If they're not, I'll have to give the tag to them.

The Vamarii outpost liaison is odd, yeah. I got it once too,  but had forgotten about it. I'll have to go check their list of allowed positions again.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01
Post by: Mephansteras on April 30, 2010, 02:17:48 pm

Almost ready to release an initial version at this point. I've updated the OP with everything going into this version.

I just need to test a few more things out and make sure there are not glaring errors. The first release should go up sometime tonight or tomorrow.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 30, 2010, 11:36:13 pm

Ok, version 2.01 has been released!

Check it out and let me know what you think

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Ampoliros on May 01, 2010, 03:00:59 am

Groovy so far. Slight errors that I noticed starting off:

-cotton's prefstring is 'softnessness'
-web lichen seeds are called 'slime mold spawn'
-black pepper seeds are called 'cinnamon seeds'
-gold crystal seeds are called 'dark crystal seeds'

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 01, 2010, 04:02:52 am

I like the new beetles' variety, land striders (remind me of Silt Striders from Morrowind) and of course the variety of races you have.

It's great how with a bit different style and name for each of surrounding civilizations you suddenly get a feeling of a different world in each mod. Also I appreciate your desire to share your work with others, because I like to do it too and that's why I mod :).

The RedCaps tribes' goblins idea is great. I've read about redcaps when I was 6 or 7 :).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Org on May 01, 2010, 07:25:48 am

Is thEre any chance that later on for a troll civ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 01, 2010, 09:15:59 am

@Ampoliros - Thanks! I'll get those fixed.

@Deon - Yeah, I like seeing the history of the worlds. It's fascinating seeing different races rise to supremacy in each world. Should only get better as Toady fleshes out the world gen and world interaction with the fortress more.

@Org - Sure. I might even add them into the Primitive Civs section once I start those.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Daywalkah on May 01, 2010, 09:32:53 am

It brings me joy to see Civilization Forge finally be released for the new version. I've always enjoyed this mod, even though now I probably won't use a lot of the civs, too crowded  :(. Great job, as usual Mephansteras!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 01, 2010, 09:34:06 am

Well, it's not too crowded yet. Once it is though you can gen different worlds with different sets of races, which should add a lot of variety to the game.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Daywalkah on May 01, 2010, 09:37:17 am

Just downloaded it and I will use it when I get back from the store. Frost Giants, Vamarii, and the Sand Raiders are my favorites out of this mod. But the Frost Giants get crushed by my Fire Giants, obviously  :P.

EDIT: If you wouldn't mind, I would like to use your Frost Giants in my Fanciful Creatures mod. You will recieve the credit, of course. I was going to add them soon, but you beat me to it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 01, 2010, 10:51:31 am

Go right ahead, dragon.


Also, here is a quick patch for the plant_cf file. Just copy this and overwrite the data in the existing file. It just fixes some spelling and name issues.

Code: [Select]

plant_cf

[OBJECT:PLANT]

[PLANT:BERRIES_RASPBERRY]
[NAME:raspberry][NAME_PLURAL:raspberries][ADJ:raspberry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:162][PICKED_COLOR:4:0:0]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen raspberry wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:raspberry wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling raspberry wine]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[SPRING]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:raspberry seed:raspberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:bumps]
[PREFSTRING:sweet taste]

[PLANT:BERRIES_BLACK]
[NAME:blackberry][NAME_PLURAL:blackberries][ADJ:blackberry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:162][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:0]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen blackberry cordial]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:blackberry cordial]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling blackberry cordial]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:1:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[SPRING]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:blackberry seed:blackberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:bumps]
[PREFSTRING:tartness]

[PLANT:BERRIES_BLUE]
[NAME:blueberry][NAME_PLURAL:blueberries][ADJ:blueberry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:162][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:1]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
[BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen blueberry cordial]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:blueberry cordial]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling blueberry cordial]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[SPRING][SUMMER]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:blueberry seed:blueberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:roundness]

[PLANT:COTTON]
[NAME:cotton][NAME_PLURAL:cotton][ADJ:cotton]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
[WET]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
[VALUE:2]
[SPRING][SUMMER]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:THREAD:THREAD_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[THREAD:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:THREAD]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[SEED:cotton seed:cotton:6:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[PREFSTRING:fluffiness]
[PREFSTRING:softness]

[PLANT:MUSHROOM_GLOW_CAP]
[NAME:glow cap][NAME_PLURAL:glow caps][ADJ:glow cap]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:6][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
[GROWDUR:600][VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
The material template is just called "alcohol" so we need to give it a proper name.
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen moonglow]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:moonglow]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling moonglow]
We also set a few more numbers to distinguish the alcohol from the template.
[MATERIAL_VALUE:4]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:glow cap node:glow cap nodes:2:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:80]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:eerie glow]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:58]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]


[PLANT:MOLD_SLIME]
[NAME:slime mold][NAME_PLURAL:slime molds][ADJ:slime mold]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
    [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
    [EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:6][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:1]
[GROWDUR:300][VALUE:1]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:slime mold spawn:slime mold spawn:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:bitter taste]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:58]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_COLOR:6:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:LICHEN_WEB]
[NAME:web lichen][NAME_PLURAL:web lichen][ADJ:web lichen]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
    [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
    [EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:'#'][PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
[GROWDUR:800][VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
The material template is just called "alcohol" so we need to give it a proper name.
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen dwarven firewater]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:dwarven firewater]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling dwarven firewater]
We also set a few more numbers to distinguish the alcohol from the template.
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[SEED:web lichen spawn:web lichen spawn:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:40]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:intricate webs]
[DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:'#']
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:BULB_CAVE]
[NAME:cave bulb][NAME_PLURAL:cave bulbs][ADJ:cave bulb]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:6][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:1]
[GROWDUR:500][VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen dwarven sherry]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:dwarven sherry]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling dwarven sherry]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cave spice]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:20]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:cave bulb node:cave bulb nodes:5:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:heady scent]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:58]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]


[PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_DARK]
[NAME:dark crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:dark crystal grasses][ADJ:dark crystal grass]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:0]
[GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:dark crystal dye]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:DARK_VIOLET]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[POWDER_DYE:DARK_VIOLET]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:dark crystal seeds:dark crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:1]
[PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:159]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:159]
[SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:0]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_RED]
[NAME:crimson crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:crimson crystal grasses][ADJ:crimson crystal grass]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:4:0:1]
[GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:crimson crystal dye]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:SCARLET]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[POWDER_DYE:SCARLET]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:crimson crystal seeds:crimson crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:1]
[PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:159]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:159]
[SHRUB_COLOR:4:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_GREEN]
[NAME:verdent crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:verdent crystal grasses][ADJ:verdent crystal grass]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
[GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:verdent crystal dye]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:JADE]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[POWDER_DYE:JADE]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:verdent crystal seeds:verdent crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:1]
[PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:159]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:159]
[SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_GOLD]
[NAME:golden crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:golden crystal grasses][ADJ:golden crystal grass]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:1]
[GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:golden crystal dye]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GOLD]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[POWDER_DYE:GOLD]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:golden crystal seeds:golden crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:1]
[PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
[SHRUB_TILE:159]
[DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:159]
[SHRUB_COLOR:6:0:1]
[DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]

[PLANT:CINNAMON]
[NAME:cinnamon bush][NAME_PLURAL:cinnamon bushes][ADJ:cinnamon bush]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:0]
[GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:4]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cinnamon spice]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:cinnamon seed:cinnamon seeds:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
  [SPRING]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:sweet scent]
[WET]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
 
[PLANT:BLACK_PEPPER]
[NAME:black pepper vine][NAME_PLURAL:black pepper vines][ADJ:black pepper vine]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:58][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:0]
[GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:4]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:black pepper spice]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:0:0:1]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:black pepper seed:black pepper seeds:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:sweet scent]
[WET]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]  
 
 
[PLANT:BERRY_ICE]
[NAME:rime berry][NAME_PLURAL:rime berries][ADJ:rime berry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:58][PICKED_COLOR:3:0:1]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[VALUE:3]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen winter wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:winter wine]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling winter wine]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:6]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:3:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[AUTUMN]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:rime berry seed:rime berry seeds:3:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:amazing wine]
[PREFSTRING:glinting] 

[PLANT:BERRY_CROW]
[NAME:crowberry][NAME_PLURAL:crowberries][ADJ:crowberry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:58][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:0]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen crowberry schnapps]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:crowberry schnapps]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling crowberry schnapps]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:1:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[SPRING]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:crowberry seed:crowberry seeds:7:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:75]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:needlelike leaves]

[PLANT:BERRY_LINGON]
[NAME:lingon berry][NAME_PLURAL:lingon berries][ADJ:lingon berry]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:58][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:0]
[GROWDUR:1200]
[DRY][WET]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EXTRACT:PLANT_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen lingon berry syrup]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:lingon berry syrup]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling lingon berry syrup]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:20]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[EXTRACT_STORAGE:BARREL]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[EXTRACT_BARREL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:EXTRACT]
[SUMMER]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[SEED:lingon seed:lingon seeds:5:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[FREQUENCY:75]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:tartness] 


[PLANT:CANE_SUGAR]
[NAME:sugar cane][NAME_PLURAL:sugar canes][ADJ:sugar cane]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
[GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen rum]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:rum]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling rum]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:sugar]
[STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:WHITE]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EXTRACT:PLANT_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen molasses]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molasses]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling molasses]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
[EDIBLE_RAW]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[EXTRACT_STORAGE:BARREL]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[EXTRACT_BARREL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:EXTRACT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN]
[EDIBLE_COOKED]
[SEED:sugar cane seed:sugar cane seeds:2:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
[SPRING]
[FREQUENCY:100]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:sweet juice]
[WET]
[BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
[BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]



Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Adamantine Fist on May 02, 2010, 03:04:14 pm

Why is it that alunite and nivocite (not to mention a whole host of other stones) do not show up as usable in any constructions? They aren't even economic stones, and if they are then they don't show up on the economic stones list.

EDIT: Also, most of the stones in the economic stones list can be sharpened into blades. Is this usual?

EDIT2: Figured it out. The MAX_EDGE value given in the stone template was absurdly high, causing all ordinary stone to be sharpenable, and screwing things up royally for me.

EDIT3: Uhhh... what's stone? Like... just stone. I've now found these huge veins of, well... stone all over my map. I'm a bit worried about this now.
EDIT4: I think there might have been a slight typo when doing the names of bladestone and flint. There's double colons in there, and I think that's why I have veins of stone now. It's all sharpenable.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 02, 2010, 05:01:21 pm

Hmmm, good to know. The max_edge value for stone is from Arrkhal's balance mod. Looks like I might need to change that.

Removing the extra colon seems to work for bladestone and flint. I'll make sure those changes are in the next patch, which I'll probably release tomorrow. I don't think I'll have time to get it out today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Ampoliros on May 02, 2010, 10:47:59 pm

I had a frost giant diplomat (similar to the vamarii one from earlier) show up and chitchat with my expedition leader...except unlike the vamarii one, he dropped dead spontaneously for reasons unknown to me. I'm presuming it has something to do with heat damage, as I didn't get any combat messages and i doubt his heart suddenly gave out in my dining room. I didn't have any magma in the immediate area, so they may just be taking heat damage from nominal underground temperatures(?).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Esti on May 02, 2010, 11:11:32 pm

Quote from: Ampoliros on May 02, 2010, 10:47:59 pm

I had a frost giant diplomat (similar to the vamarii one from earlier) show up and chitchat with my expedition leader...except unlike the vamarii one, he dropped dead spontaneously for reasons unknown to me. I'm presuming it has something to do with heat damage, as I didn't get any combat messages and i doubt his heart suddenly gave out in my dining room. I didn't have any magma in the immediate area, so they may just be taking heat damage from nominal underground temperatures(?).

lol..  a melting diplomat. sweet.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2010, 12:26:28 am

Hmm, strange. I'll look into it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2010, 02:44:23 pm

Trying to upload version 2.02, which just fixes a few things. However, DFFD is having some issues, so I'll let you know whenever I get it uploaded.

Next on my list of things to do is rework the Iron and Steel industries. Lots of ideas there, which should make things more interesting and useful in general.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 03, 2010, 02:47:16 pm

I 've just uploaded 1.61 of my mod just fine. Try now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.01 - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2010, 02:49:33 pm

Ah, excellent.

Ok, version 2.02 is now up!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2010, 10:49:47 pm

Decided to fix the unkillable bronze colossus issue today. They now have a Soul Shard in their chest that will kill them if it is destroyed. Kind of like a heart, except blood isn't involved.

Also got the values for Wrought Iron working pretty well, as well as Crucible Steel (Wootz Steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel)) which is a little better than normal steel.

Currently working on the Finishing Forge which is used to make Wrought Iron and Pattern Welded Steel.

The Crucible is next, followed by the Blast Furnace. Sadly I can't make the Blast Furnace powered, but I can at least make it require leather for bellows and such. Still trying to figure out the exact reactions and overall fuel costs for each method, but I think I'll have something working by the end of the week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 04, 2010, 12:10:03 pm

Finishing Forge is working properly, so adding in the Crucible and Blast furnace should be pretty simple.

Also, for those who haven't noticed it yet there is a bug in the current version with making items out of metal: Forge tasks seem to only require 1 bar regardless of the material size of the item being created. So, right now, everything just takes one bar. Mail vests, Mail Shirts, Mail Hauberks, Breastplates...all 1 bar.

So my comments on things taking more resources to make is how things are supposed to work, not how they work right now in 31.03.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 05, 2010, 01:11:21 am

Pretty much have all the kinks worked out of the actual workshops and reactions.

Now I just need to test to see how things work with trading and what materials dwarves usually have available and whatnot. Then I'll see about rebalancing the rest of the races.

Hmmm...do I give Humans wrought iron, or keep them bronze age?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 05, 2010, 12:08:26 pm

Changed the poll. Seems a lot of people like Tainted for all three races, but Ampoliros came up with an interesting option that combines all three of the popular types. So I figured I'd see if people prefer Tainted overall or if a mix would help.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: tigervx on May 05, 2010, 10:19:09 pm

Started a game out in the new Civilization Forge, it seems to be going well expect that the caravans I'm getting seem to have nothing but cloth. The dwarven caravan I got only had cloth and a single unit of cheese, and the high elven and regular elven caravans I got only had cloth bins and wood. Is there a reason for this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 05, 2010, 10:43:24 pm

Bad luck, I guess. My caravans have all had a nice mix of items.

I am getting a strange bug that's slowing down my ironworks testing, though. My custom furnaces (of which there are a few) seem to occasionally turn to unspecific 'Furnace' buildings after a save and reload. They don't always do this, and deconstructing them and rebuilding them works ok, so it's more of an irritation than a game breaker. Still, very frustrating.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 06, 2010, 12:05:14 am

Ok, found a workaround. It seems that the only custom furnaces that get messed up are those that you build before saving for the first time. Any furnaces built after you first save/load the game are fine even after multiple save & loads.

So, it will be important to save your fortress before you do anything with the new metal industry. It's mildly annoying, but I think it's a minor enough detail that people will be able to live with it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 06, 2010, 02:05:20 pm

Found something I think is a bug. Chain Coifs keep showing up made out of cloth.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 06, 2010, 02:11:36 pm

Hmmm. Odd. The raws for the chain coif doesn't include SOFT, so they really shouldn't be showing up as cloth. Must be a bug with the game. I guess knitted coifs is a fashion statement?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 06, 2010, 03:30:22 pm

Ok, Wiki Page (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Civilization_Forge) is up now. I'll try to expand on it later, but at least all the basic info is up.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Morrigi on May 06, 2010, 05:18:39 pm

No cloth coifs that I've noticed in my games.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Roses on May 06, 2010, 07:42:09 pm

Hey, just wanted to stop by and say I love the work your doing. Played CF for the 40d and had some pretty awesome forts. I was just wondering how much more you have on your 'wishlist' to do for this release. I've been playing a little bit here and there, but I don't want to start a huge fort and project only to find out that you just added like 100 new things.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 06, 2010, 07:53:40 pm

Well, next release is going to have the new Iron and Steel upgrades and changes. I'm currently testing that, and it should be out in the next week.

After that I have a major Alchemy and Special Metals overhaul to bring the various Mithril, Levisium, Crystal, and Elemental metals and alloys back. That'll be quite a bit of work, so I don't really have a release estimate on that. Probably several weeks after the Iron and Steel release at the earliest.

Once that's done I'll take a look at the Guardians, Megabeasts, and other animals. At which point I'll actually be caught up with everything from the 40d version.

After that, I've got more races I want to do, some new animals, and I don't know what else.

So to answer your question, I've got a few new changes with the next release but long-term a lot more to do. So if you want to wait for the Ironworks release you only have to wait a little while. Anything beyond that and you're probably safe starting a major fort and just playing the mod. I'll be adding stuff pretty consistently for a while, but I expect the delays between releases to be pretty long.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 08, 2010, 05:04:22 am

I was wondering if you were aware of this: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55798.0

Its a pretty painless change to make as a temporary fix until toady gets around to putting balanced values in place.  Since you are freely editing weapon balance yourself elsewhere in your mod anyway, I thought you might want to fiddle with the numbers there as well.

Also about chickens:
Custom reactions aren't able to use creatures as inputs or outputs yet, so you can't create a 'harvest eggs'  reaction or anything of that nature.  On the other hand, if you're willing to accept the farmer's workshop 'Milk Creature' job can be extended to egg harvesting, you can very easily add eggs to chickens.  create a custom material template based on milk, but make copy its temperature states from cheese so that it's solid at room temperature.  Anything 'milked' must go into a bucket initially, but after that its fair game. 

Add something like this to the female chicken caste:
      [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EGG:CREATURE_EGG_TEMPLATE]
         [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:chicken egg]
         [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:chicken egg]
         [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:melted chicken egg]
         [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:melted chicken egg]
         [STATE_NAME:GAS:boiling chicken egg ]
         [STATE_ADJ:GAS:boiling chicken egg]
         [PREFIX:NONE]
      [MILKABLE:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG:100000]



And add something like this to your material defs(copied from CHEESE, altered to be more like MILK).
[MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:CREATURE_EGG_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:YELLOW]
   [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:egg]
   [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:eggy]
   [STATE_COLOR:LIQUID:YELLOW]
   [STATE_NAME:LIQUID:n/a]
   [STATE_ADJ:LIQUID:n/a]
   [STATE_COLOR:GAS:YELLOW]
   [STATE_NAME:GAS:n/a]
   [STATE_ADJ:GAS:n/a]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:1]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SPEC_HEAT:4181]
   [IGNITE_POINT:10338]
   [MELTING_POINT:10078]
   [BOILING_POINT:NONE]
   [HEATDAM_POINT:10250]
   [COLDDAM_POINT:9900]
   [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:NONE]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:1200]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:1200]
   [MOLAR_MASS:NONE]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:10000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:10000]
   [IMPACT_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:10000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:10000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:10000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:10000]
   [TENSILE_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [TORSION_YIELD:10000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:10000]
   [TORSION_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:10000] no data
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:10000]
   [SHEAR_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [BENDING_YIELD:10000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:10000]
   [BENDING_ELASTICITY:50000]
   [MAX_EDGE:0]
   [ABSORPTION:100]
   [CHEESE_CREATURE]
   [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [ROTS]
   [GENERATES_MIASMA]

I realize it doesn't entirely line up with reality, but them's the breaks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 08, 2010, 03:48:25 pm

I've integrated Arrkhal's material balance mod in which seems to have fixed the issue with ineffective claws/bites. Considering that Giant Beetles can take on an armored goblin and win, I'd say it's working out pretty well.

I may have to play around with the egg stuff. It sounds interesting.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 08, 2010, 10:22:38 pm

I've now looked through the raws, its seems like Arrkhal went in the other direction.  Rather than make teeth and chitin harder, he made skin softer.  This is a little odd because it leaves teeth and horns MUCH (20 times) softer than bone, but significantly harder than skin.  But as long as its teeth vs skin or chitin vs skin, the combat simulations should work ok.  You won't ever in a million years be able to break anything's bones with a bite attack though, regardless of size/strength differences.  A dragon won't be able to break a chipmunks bones.  He'll crush his organs just fine though. ;p

He also made metal 20 times softer than it was.  This is doubly strange, because he left bone untouched, so bone is 4 times harder than metal, go go bone armor.  This only affects blunt attacks, so limbs should still get severed correctly.  And he probably magnified the velocities(I didn't check) of the various blunt weapon attacks so much that they'll still be effective. 


As to eggs, yea, adding new types of milk or cheese, or making a creature milkable is very very easy to do.  If you don't care about the milk's material state (if you don't care that the eggs are liquid at room tempurature), you can completely omit the new egg material template and just use a standard milk template.  In that case, just copy the pertinent lines from some other milkable creature (like a cow), and change the names that say 'cow's milk' to 'chicken egg'.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 08, 2010, 11:23:19 pm

Hmm, I'll have to test bone armor in the arena.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: ThaMuzz on May 11, 2010, 01:59:54 pm

Okay, I may have missed it when I was skimming the thread, but is there any guide on how the new armor types layer?  I'm currently trying to design the uniforms for my fortress.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 02:06:36 pm

They layer pretty much the same as the normal armors. Chain Vests, Scale Armor, Lamellar Armor, and the various Hauberks are all the same layer as a Chain Shirt. They'll go over clothing but should go under a Breastplate.

Chain, Scale, and Lamellar leggings will go over pants but would be replaced by Greaves.

Chain, Scale, and Lamellar gauntlets should go over leather or cloth gloves but would be replaced by plate gauntlets.

The chain coif isn't working quite right, for some reason. It should replace a cap but go under the helm, but right now it just replaces the helm.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Osdeath on May 11, 2010, 02:22:37 pm

Query, can all axes be used for wood chopping, or is it solely battle axes still?

edit : answered my own question by diving in with hand axes, apparently all axes can be used.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 11, 2010, 05:21:47 pm

Ok first off, Id like to say that I have been playing this mod since the 40d days and its always been FUN. But I just can't play it anymore. This is due to no fault of the creator of the mod (or perhaps it is but I don't think so). The reason I can't play this anymore is due to the @#$%ing military system.

Currently my fort has a massive steel making operation and I have a legendary armorsmith that has created over a dozen complete sets of exceptional or masterful armor sets. But in the military screens NOTHING SHOW UP. I try to equip my troops but even with the basic metal uniform they only pick up weapons that I either brought with me (crappy copper axes and picks) or bought from traders. Its like everything is forbidden but after double and triple checking nothing is. This leads into my second part of my sign off.

Now with vinilla dwarf fort you can servive without a military as long as you don't explore the underground and have lots of weapon traps. Not so with this mod. I JUST got mobbed by a massive sand raider ambush. This was only my second ambush but there was over 20 sandraiders with giant army ant mounts. Normally this wouldnt bother me, I am walled in and I quickly raised my bridges. THEN SOME UNITS ARE DISCOVERED INSIDE MY WALLS AFTER RASING MY BRIDGES. THEY SPAWNED INSIDE MY WALLS!!! Still thinking this was managable I sent my militia after them and my 7 dwarves got torn apart by 1 army ant and 2 sand raiders. Embaresing.

Sorry but until this military system gets fixed so that it doesnt crash every 5 seconds and my dwarfs actually FIGHT then I simply can't play your mod. Until then Goodbye and goodluck modding.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 05:29:21 pm

First off, the fact that they had Giant Ant mounts is awesome. I hadn't seen that yet!

Anyway, yeah, the military is a bit bugged. Sounds like you have it worse than usual, though, since I can usually get my military up and running pretty well. Honestly, I have more problems with the bugged health care leaving my injured military in limbo than I do with the actual military.

Do you have an arsenal dwarf? If you do, are they doing stuff other than the arsenal dwarf job? My military usually lags a little bit behind what i want them to wear, but I haven't had too many problems getting them to equip decent equipment?

Also, the crash might be due to a large dagger. Apparently the knife skill causes the military screen to crash. If that's not fixed in 31.04 I'll switch the skill over to Sword skill to prevent that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 11, 2010, 05:34:47 pm

Quote from: LordShotGun on May 11, 2010, 05:21:47 pm

Ok first off, Id like to say that I have been playing this mod since the 40d days and its always been FUN. But I just can't play it anymore. This is due to no fault of the creator of the mod (or perhaps it is but I don't think so). The reason I can't play this anymore is due to the @#$%ing military system.

Currently my fort has a massive steel making operation and I have a legendary armorsmith that has created over a dozen complete sets of exceptional or masterful armor sets. But in the military screens NOTHING SHOW UP. I try to equip my troops but even with the basic metal uniform they only pick up weapons that I either brought with me (crappy copper axes and picks) or bought from traders. Its like everything is forbidden but after double and triple checking nothing is. This leads into my second part of my sign off.

Now with vinilla dwarf fort you can servive without a military as long as you don't explore the underground and have lots of weapon traps. Not so with this mod. I JUST got mobbed by a massive sand raider ambush. This was only my second ambush but there was over 20 sandraiders with giant army ant mounts. Normally this wouldnt bother me, I am walled in and I quickly raised my bridges. THEN SOME UNITS ARE DISCOVERED INSIDE MY WALLS AFTER RASING MY BRIDGES. THEY SPAWNED INSIDE MY WALLS!!! Still thinking this was managable I sent my militia after them and my 7 dwarves got torn apart by 1 army ant and 2 sand raiders. Embaresing.

Sorry but until this military system gets fixed so that it doesnt crash every 5 seconds and my dwarfs actually FIGHT then I simply can't play your mod. Until then Goodbye and goodluck modding.

Did you try to train them with things like training dummies? Also my dwarves equip weapons just fine, you could try to make them to use steel only and reload just in case there's some bug.

Quote

If that's not fixed in 31.04 I'll switch the skill over to Sword skill to prevent that.

I find a better solution is to switch it to a dodging skill. It doesn't interfere with swords this way.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 11, 2010, 05:35:22 pm

Meph, is your "World Gen log parser v1.3" compatible with df2010?  If not, do you plan to update it soon?  It sounds damned useful. 

If it is compatible, you should mention that on the file description.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 05:40:41 pm

Quote from: derigo on May 11, 2010, 05:35:22 pm

Meph, is your "World Gen log parser v1.3" compatible with df2010?  If not, do you plan to update it soon?  It sounds damned useful. 

If it is compatible, you should mention that on the file description.

It is compatible, for the most part. It misses a little bit with the new Human warlords, but otherwise works ok.

I am actually working on a new version, though, that will allow for some use of the XML dumps you can do in Legends mode. Sadly, those dumps are far from complete so I don't get as much information as I'd like, but it should add a bit more information on about who's been fighting throughout the years.

I'll go update the existing entry, though, so people know it still works.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 11, 2010, 05:41:53 pm

And I will go download it and be happy!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 11, 2010, 07:29:00 pm

Did you already change the bronze ratios?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 07:32:42 pm

Yes, bronze and brass should require 4 copper for each tin/zinc

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 11, 2010, 07:33:46 pm

Well, that may explain why I'm getting cloth coifs. Obviously, I've got somethig wrong with my raws.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 08:29:44 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on May 11, 2010, 07:33:46 pm

Well, that may explain why I'm getting cloth coifs. Obviously, I've got somethig wrong with my raws.

Seems to be a bug in DF in general. I've gotten them too. I think it's related to the cloth quivers and other such items that show up on immigrants that you can't make yourself.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 12, 2010, 06:18:40 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 05:29:21 pm

Do you have an arsenal dwarf? If you do, are they doing stuff other than the arsenal dwarf job? My military usually lags a little bit behind what i want them to wear, but I haven't had too many problems getting them to equip decent equipment?

...Well now I feel stupid...I completly forgot about my arsenal dwarf, but this still doesnt explain why NOTHING shows up on my military equip screens. Edit: Ok now I feel TOTALLY stupid... arsenal dwarf fixed all my miltary problems...and no this is not my FIRST fort heh.

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 05:29:21 pm

the fact that they had Giant Ant mounts is awesome. I hadn't seen that yet!

Yeah well maybe they were mounts or maybe they were just another cast attacking with the sandraiders(I'm pretty sure they were mounts, badass mounts more dangerous then the raiders due to thier impenaturabul carapaces) but seriously the WORST part of the ambush was that I am CERTAIN that some of the units spawned INSIDE my walls after a kitten that was locked outside found another ambush(you know how ambushes come in like 2-3 waves sometimes with each wave being hidden)

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 11, 2010, 02:06:36 pm

They layer pretty much the same as the normal armors. Chain Vests, Scale Armor, Lamellar Armor, and the various Hauberks are all the same layer as a Chain Shirt. They'll go over clothing but should go under a Breastplate.

Chain, Scale, and Lamellar leggings will go over pants but would be replaced by Greaves.

Chain, Scale, and Lamellar gauntlets should go over leather or cloth gloves but would be replaced by plate gauntlets.

The chain coif isn't working quite right, for some reason. It should replace a cap but go under the helm, but right now it just replaces the helm.

Also I dont seem able to make all of these, at least not though the manager screen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 10:11:34 am

They shouldn't be able to spawn inside, I don't think. Although they may have snuck inside before you found the others and closed the gate.

And, no, you won't be able to make all of the armor types. You're guaranteed at least one level 2 armor (chain vest, shirt, scale armor, whatever) but your civilization may only have one. Might have more. It seems to be pretty random. Dwarves like chain, though, so usually you'll have a chain armor plus maybe a few other types of chain or scale/lamellar.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Morrigi on May 12, 2010, 10:14:02 am

Is there an easy way to mod it so I can make all of them?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 10:21:38 am

Well, you can set all of the types to COMMON in the dwarf entity entry to get scale and lamellar more often. I don't know if you can force it to always have all of the options for armor or clothing, though, since even COMMON items don't always show up. The game seems to pick 1-n items in the same category for each civ, and I guess takes more common items more often.

 You could try removing the frequency indicator outright the way weapons are. That might work, although it might just throw some errors up as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 12, 2010, 02:04:00 pm

I wonder if wolly mammoth should be "wooly mammoth"?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 02:14:10 pm

Should actually be woolly. I'll have to fix that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 02:20:47 pm

Also, general update. I think the Ironworks additions are pretty well settled at this point. I'm really just waiting on Toady to release 31.04 since it sounds like that should be in the next few days. Then I can merge my code with that and release it.

I've started doing material testing for the Crystals. Got Tempered Crystal working pretty well. It's in between copper and Bronze, as it should be. Next up is Blood Crystal and Night Crystal, then Void Crystal.

Not sure yet what I'll have to do to make Night Crystal better than Blood Crystal for armor but not weapons. Might just go with high and low Max Edge numbers, so Night Crystal may be better for blunt weapons. I'm ok with that, I guess.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 12, 2010, 03:59:29 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 10:11:34 am

They shouldn't be able to spawn inside, I don't think. Although they may have snuck inside before you found the others and closed the gate.

And, no, you won't be able to make all of the armor types. You're guaranteed at least one level 2 armor (chain vest, shirt, scale armor, whatever) but your civilization may only have one. Might have more. It seems to be pretty random. Dwarves like chain, though, so usually you'll have a chain armor plus maybe a few other types of chain or scale/lamellar.

Pretty damn sure they spawned inside since they spawned on top of my trading depot while I had some elf traders there. Also I never knew that differently generated civilizations developed different types of armor. That explains some questions I'v had for awhile.

BTW after figuring out my silly arsenal dwarf problem, I continued playing my fort (thankfully I always have on seasonal saving) and now I have gotten several sandraider ambushs with giant ant mounts. So far I only see soldier giant ants which makes sense but they are by far the more difficult unit to kill over the sand raiders now that my dwarfs are completly armored in masterful steel armor.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 04:02:18 pm

Soldier ants are pretty scary. I recommend countering them with Giant Beetles, who are a good bit bigger and share all of the natural advantages the ants have. Beetles win hands down.

The ants as a mount is pretty funny, though, since the ants are size 50000 while the Raiders are size 70000. I guess the ants are strong enough but...still pretty funny.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 12, 2010, 04:04:29 pm

They probably just have long enough legs so it's ok for me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/307m4cl.gif)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/2481125425_621c46804f.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/2042521140_7c8e2b5f1c.jpg?v=0)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 04:05:46 pm

That's a good point. The size is total volume, so they probably have long spindly ant legs and such. So, thin but strong. I can see that working.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 12, 2010, 04:08:58 pm

Yeah, and sorry for the mess, I've spoilered the images :).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 04:11:36 pm

Hehe. No worries.

Still pretty funny looking, though.

Hmmm, Giant Beetles are about cow-sized. That would be a pretty scary mount for enemies to show up on.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Vertigon on May 12, 2010, 04:26:47 pm

Just nitpicking, I'm pretty sure they're called falchions, not falcions. Great mod though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 04:35:34 pm

Quote from: Vertigon on May 12, 2010, 04:26:47 pm

Just nitpicking, I'm pretty sure they're called falchions, not falcions. Great mod though.

Hmm...spelling seems to be a bit mixed on this one. Not surprising, since the word probably had multiple spellings over the years. But falchion does seem more common, though, so I'll probably fix that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 13, 2010, 06:27:08 am

I am rather curious if you used any type of combat rebalance because arrows/bolts are quite effective aginst unarmored targets but pretty useless aginst fully armored foes unless using a higher "tier" metal like steel over iron/bronze.

I ask this because I just had my first "mega" beast an ettin. It had the misfortunae toarive just as my dwarven caravan arived and the three guards RIPPED IT UP. The crossbow dwarve did TERRIBLE TERRIBLE damage and then the speardwarve and swordsdwarve killed it before my militia even suited up.

Then some comedy afterwards when one of my dwarves tried to drag the body inside but after checking his stats he had unquestionably weak so it took him almost an entire season to drag the corpse across half the map.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 13, 2010, 06:42:24 am

Wrong thread.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2010, 10:37:50 am

The material balance mod I've included does effect range weapons a little bit. I've noticed the problem with trying to hurt armored opponents, but haven't found a solution yet. I'll play around with the numbers a bit more to see if I can find something that'll work well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 13, 2010, 12:38:04 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 04:02:18 pm

Soldier ants are pretty scary. I recommend countering them with Giant Beetles, who are a good bit bigger and share all of the natural advantages the ants have. Beetles win hands down.

A few questions on the new animals

How good are the new animals warbeast wise? I would imagine cave crabs being tougher then dogs but do they have the same problem with not being able to bite through just about any type of clothing? You meantioned above that giant beetles are pretty good but are they able to take on ambushes if you have beetles in large enough numbers?

Suger beetles are meantioned to have sweet valuable meat but its value it rather low for such a prized animal (I traded for the meat). Also everythime I slaughter one, I only get absolutly nothing at all, no meat, no chitan, no fat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2010, 12:44:15 pm

I'll have to check the value of the sugar beetle meat, it's *supposed* to be higher. Not sure why you're not getting anything when you slaughter them, though, they seem to work fine for me. I'll run some tests on it, though.

Cave Crabs are better than dogs but still not great at dealing with enemy warriors in armor. Good for random snatchers and marauding critters, though. I may have to do a crab-intensive fort and see just how many I can throw at an ambush. It'd be interesting to see how well they do.

Giant Beetles are pretty much a 1-1 match for most opponents. I've had two dwarves and a few beetles hold off an entire ambush of goblins, and the beetles got their share of the kills. Elite soldiers tend to smack them, of course, but they don't lose too much otherwise.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2010, 02:39:27 pm

Did some more arena tests with cave crabs. A group of them was able to take out a goblin dressed in cow leathers using a wrought iron dagger without any casualties on their side, although a few of them did get injured.

It takes a while for them to do serious damage, but they do seem to be able to get through leather pretty well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 13, 2010, 03:11:29 pm

After embarking with about a dozen suger beetles I have found that the slaughtering is rather buggy. (pun unintended)

First beetle sluaghtered, 1 meat, 1 fat, and 1 skin.

2nd beetle, 9 meat, 9 fat, 1 skin

3rd beetle, 1 meat, 1 fat, 1 skin

4th beetle 9 meat, 9 fat, 1 skin
After checking I dont THINK its due to gender. Since both male and female beetles were slaughtered.
Yeah its wierd. Also the meat is worth 2 dwarf bucks a serving. Quite cheap IMO

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Morrigi on May 13, 2010, 04:29:59 pm

I've slaughtered about 6 sugar beetle larvae a couple forts ago and got absolutely nothing for it, this may be related.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Ratbert_CP on May 13, 2010, 04:50:16 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 12, 2010, 02:14:10 pm

Should actually be woolly. I'll have to fix that.

Sorry to be late to this thread...  Illness and all...

Without further ado: *ahem*

"She may get woolly.  Women do get woolly." - 'Nuke' LaLoosh

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Deon on May 13, 2010, 05:04:57 pm

It can also be "wooly".

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Morrigi on May 13, 2010, 11:49:11 pm

The Merriam-Webster dictionary says the proper form is "woolly".

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 14, 2010, 09:07:23 am

Happened to me again....An ambush consisting of sand raiders and giant ants happened again. Once again they spawned INSIDE my walls PAST my weapon traps, PAST my chained up war beetle, and not just a little inside my walls, but about 10-20 tiles past my enterance on top of my stairways.

Also my earlier reports of just soldier giant ants was inccorect. All sorts of giant war ants acompany the sand raiders including queens, drones, and soliders.

Also I friggin miss the all dwarves stay indoors. I just can't figure our burrows and I'v lost about a dozen dwarfs running outside to place items in tombs only to require a tomb for themselves.

Anyways I managed to fend off the ambush of about 20 sandraiders swordsmen and a similar amount of giant war ants but now I have to deal with a tantrum sprial...I'll probably just savescum and hope for a better ambush, maybe I'll get a bunch of sandraider lashers.... or maybe some archers  :-[...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Knight Otu on May 14, 2010, 09:14:12 am

Do you have a nonstandard embark size, by chance? That thing could happen in 40d with nonsquare embarks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 14, 2010, 01:11:41 pm

Quote from: Knight Otu on May 14, 2010, 09:14:12 am

Do you have a nonstandard embark size, by chance? That thing could happen in 40d with nonsquare embarks.

Nah, its a 3x3 embark. Totally Flat. On a custom generated world where you only get 40-50 underground z levels so that theres alot less dead space between the important surface area, the storehouses, and my magma plants.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 01:14:08 pm

Hmmm, check to make sure you don't have any diagonal gaps in your walls or a ramp you didn't know about?

All ambushes should start at one of the edges and work their way in from there. How close to the edge of the map are they spawning inside your walls?

Fixed the issue with Sugar Beetles today. It was just missing a tag. I also did some butcher tests, and didn't have any problems getting meat/fat from all of them. Might need to check Mantis to see if butchering is inconsistent for some reason.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 02:07:56 pm

Quote from: LordShotGun on May 13, 2010, 03:11:29 pm

After embarking with about a dozen suger beetles I have found that the slaughtering is rather buggy. (pun unintended)

First beetle sluaghtered, 1 meat, 1 fat, and 1 skin.

2nd beetle, 9 meat, 9 fat, 1 skin

3rd beetle, 1 meat, 1 fat, 1 skin

4th beetle 9 meat, 9 fat, 1 skin
After checking I dont THINK its due to gender. Since both male and female beetles were slaughtered.
Yeah its wierd. Also the meat is worth 2 dwarf bucks a serving. Quite cheap IMO

Keeping in mind that I haven't even glanced at the creature defs for the creature you're talking about, what determines how much meat (and whatnot) you get from butchering is simply the size of the creature, and the thickness of its various tissue layers.  Get a creature small enough, and you won't get anything at all.  Cats, for instance, are tiny, which is why you get almost nothing when you butcher them.  Does this beetle have a wide range of BROADNESS?  Toady says the broadness appearance modifier actually changes the size of the creature.  Different sizes for different genders maybe?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 02:14:34 pm

No, nothing like that going on with them. They only have a range between 90-110% of the base size, which is 5000. Pretty small, but it should still be more consistent than 9 or 1. No difference in size between the castes, either.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 02:19:05 pm

Wierd.  I dunno then, I'lll take a look.

Oh and the way to change the dwarfbucks value of creature materials is with something like

Code: [Select]

[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[MULTIPLY_VALUE:2]
though you needn't do it across the board like that.  You can select specific materials in the creature. 

Edit: in your raw you just did

Code: [Select]

[MULTIPLY_VALUE:3]
without selecting any materials first, that's why it didn't work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 02:21:24 pm

Yeah, I had that in there but somehow the SELECT_MATERIAL tag got removed. It's back now, and they have tasty meat again.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 02:51:14 pm

ok I shoved sugar beetles into my raws, generated a pocket world and butchered a million of them while observing their descriptive size.  To be honest, the size in the description seems totally unrelated to the amount of meat/fat obtained.  Actually I think we might've uncovered a bug here.  Unlike all the other appearance modfiers, size and muscularity seem to be dwarf-centric rather than creature-centric.  9/10 your beetles are 'Gigantic" or larger.  I suspect that the 1/10 of the time is when they are beetle-average.  Appearance modifiers usually get omitted when the value is 'average for the creature.'  But since even the smallest beetle is much larger than a dwarf, it always says 'Gigantic.'  Same goes for all creatures, too.

Anyway butchery results:

about 20 beetles gave me 9 fat and meat
5 beetles gave me 3 fat and meat
1 beetle gave me 1 fat and meat
And I swear I'm not making this up, one of the female beetles game me 1 stack of 9 meat and fat, and another stack of 1 meat and fat.  Was she pregnant?!  Mmm beetle fetus.... delish.

Is it posible we're overlookng the obvious?  The butcher's skill?  He might have a chance to suck at butchering and lose most of the meats.  My butcher was 'Proficient.' 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 03:21:34 pm

The size thing is odd, since the beetles are only size 5,000 while dwarves are 60,000. The fact that 9/10 of them were gigantic could actually have been a breeding thing in the civ you were from. The game may only choose a few 'sample' individuals for each creature type and just sends random ones of those or something. I guess we'd have to do multiple fortresses from different civs to see if that is consistent somehow.

Butchery skill could do it. Although my test of 8 beetles all had a novice butcher, and they all gave 9 meat. Still, worth checking out, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 03:31:43 pm

Beetles are small!  I didn't even look.

Now that you say that, I'm looking around in my main fort and ALL the non-dwarves are 'gigantic and very fat' or some variation along those lines. Is this just me?  If it is, some other change I made somewhere along the lines is causing it.  That'd be troubling, I have no idea what it could be.

EDIT: 
oh nvm its a known bug.  http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=739

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 03:53:54 pm

Ah. Well, at least that's not a mod problem, then.


I've started playing around with the various crystals, mithril and levisium. So far everything is working out ok, although I'm testing to see what happens when you have a material with a negative density. So far all I've discovered for sure is that it doesn't throw any errors. Might have caused a crash when quitting, though, so that needs more testing.

General notes so far:

Tempered Crystal is a bit worse than bronze or wrought iron, as expected. Better than copper, though, so still a decent choice if you've got nothing else to work with.

Blood Crystal is ok for armor but quite good for bladed weapons. Not as good as steel, but better than bronze or iron.

Night Crystal is good armor and ok weapons. Except for flails, for some reason, which slaughtered everyone who wasn't wearing steel. Not sure why, so that needs more tests. Kind of cool, though.

Mithril is pretty awesome, weak only to Steel Mauls, which seems to get through it pretty easily (even Breastplate and Greaves). Mithril hammers and maces probably suck, need more tests there.

Levisium is...weak. Which is intended, since you're supposed to alloy it with other stuff for the weight reduction. However, it needs more testing since I didn't see any particular benefit to wearing it when I took over the various arena dwarves. Agility still made a much bigger difference than whatever armor I was wearing. So, lots more testing to do there.

I also haven't even started work on the alchemy aspects. But that can get done after I have the end products working properly.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 14, 2010, 06:44:13 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 01:14:08 pm

Hmmm, check to make sure you don't have any diagonal gaps in your walls or a ramp you didn't know about?

All ambushes should start at one of the edges and work their way in from there. How close to the edge of the map are they spawning inside your walls?

Look, it not like all ambushes happen like this, only war ants and sandraiders do this. Also, I am an experience DF player who has played the orcs mod...I know how to build a sealed wall-in  ;D

And its not like they managed to sneek inside. Even when sneeking ambush attackers set off weapon traps, that how I usually discover ambushes when my dwarves go clean the traps and/or recover a corpse. Even if they did manage to get past my traps one warant and 2 sandraiders spawn ON TOP of my stair stack where dozens of dwarves would have found them but when I press z on the anouncment sceen it alwasy shows a cat or something being the one to discover it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2010, 06:45:51 pm

The Ants know ways in....they always get in, they're ants. :P

Seriously, though...I have no idea. Drones can fly, but that shouldn't help all of them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 06:53:17 pm

flying ambushers!  that's terrifying!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: LordShotGun on May 14, 2010, 07:40:39 pm

Quote from: derigo on May 14, 2010, 06:53:17 pm

flying ambushers!  that's terrifying!

Its been done in a 40d mod, I forget which one

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: derigo on May 14, 2010, 07:47:03 pm

its still terrifying!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Morrigi on May 16, 2010, 09:21:41 pm

Update? :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 16, 2010, 11:23:58 pm

Soon, probably Monday night at some point. I need to check everything out and iron out any wrinkles with the new version. But the Ironworks update will be up as soon as I can.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 11:33:55 am

So, good news is that there are no raw changes with 31.04, so I don't have to worry about that. I do need to finish packaging the new version up and getting info written up on how to use all of the new ironworks material, but I should definitely have the new version out tonight.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 17, 2010, 02:35:22 pm

Please note that [WAGON_PULLER] is buggy currently, which is why currently dwarves show up with the quantum donkeys. When I tried, the caravan didn't show up at all. Jus' sayin'.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 02:37:32 pm

So far everything is working fine for me. No wagons, yet, but caravans seem to show up fine and with a variety of pack animals.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.02 Bugfix - Released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2010, 09:12:55 pm

Version 2.1 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is now released!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 17, 2010, 09:48:47 pm

So its up to date with 31.04?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 18, 2010, 12:36:21 am

Seems to work ok for me. 31.04 didn't have any RAW updates anyway, so it shouldn't have any issues.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 10:29:30 am

Any comments or suggestions on the new Steel Industry?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 19, 2010, 12:09:43 pm

the price at embark for bronze/iron anvils is the same, is their no practical difference between the two?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 12:11:41 pm

Nope, none.

Actually, the game doesn't even give a practical difference between those and Steel anvils at this point. Hopefully material and quality of anvils will matter someday, but right now it just effects the value of the workshop.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: LordShotGun on May 19, 2010, 06:43:07 pm

I just installed it and genned a shallow world (less then 50 z levels total) so I should get my magma workshops up and running pretty quick.


BTW how do you feel about incorperating other mod's stuff? Like the genesis cast dwarfs? I rather enjoyied the varied types of dwarves but I feel that just about every other part of your mod is superior, the metal work, the farming, the animals and the races.

Edit: Also I REALLY liked some of thier custom workshops like the dodgeing trainers and doctor training shop.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Deon on May 19, 2010, 06:50:04 pm

I could object that I have the same plants but some shrooms and more and the same critters but beetles and much more, but I won't :P.

I agree that the latest Ironworks addition is great. It really adds to the game.

About castes, you could just copy/paste my dwarf creature in this mod and it would work nicely.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: LordShotGun on May 19, 2010, 06:52:12 pm

Quote from: Deon on May 19, 2010, 06:50:04 pm

I could object that I have the same plants but some shrooms and more and the same critters but beetles and much more, but I won't :P.

I agree that the latest Ironworks addition is great. It really adds to the game.

About castes, you could just copy/paste my dwarf creature in this mod and it would work nicely.

Well it seems like a small thing but the whole underground farming system I dislike. I find it logical that you could grow whatever whenever you want as long as its underground since the temp DOES NOT CHANGE under a certain level.

Also you have WAY to many plants. Some is fine for the flavor but too much just drowns the player. I never made anything but ordinary plants and potatoes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 07:31:41 pm

I'm glad you're enjoying it. :)

In general, though, I'm against adding in stuff from other mods that don't fall into the balance category. I've tried to make Civilization Forge as friendly as possible for combination with other mods, so hopefully it's easy for people to mix in whatever other stuff they like. But I'll let Deon keep his special dwarves in Genesis. If I did something like that, I'd have my own spin on them.   ;D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Deon on May 19, 2010, 07:32:50 pm

Heh, it must be my obsession with herbalism and different plants growing everywhere. Anyway, I tried to make every useful info in the Excel file which comes with the mod, so it should be easy to get what does what.

Speaking of Excel, Meph, do you plan to make a spreadsheet of your mod as a readme file? I've found that it helps players a lot.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: LordShotGun on May 19, 2010, 07:38:24 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 07:31:41 pm

I'm glad you're enjoying it. :)

In general, though, I'm against adding in stuff from other mods that don't fall into the balance category. I've tried to make Civilization Forge as friendly as possible for combination with other mods, so hopefully it's easy for people to mix in whatever other stuff they like. But I'll let Deon keep his special dwarves in Genesis. If I did something like that, I'd have my own spin on them.   ;D

Alright then, how do I go about adding the castes, and/or some of the new workshops?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2010, 07:50:39 pm

Quote from: Deon on May 19, 2010, 07:32:50 pm

Heh, it must be my obsession with herbalism and different plants growing everywhere. Anyway, I tried to make every useful info in the Excel file which comes with the mod, so it should be easy to get what does what.

Speaking of Excel, Meph, do you plan to make a spreadsheet of your mod as a readme file? I've found that it helps players a lot.

Hmmm, I could I suppose. Might do that after the next release, which should have the new alchemy stuff in it. That'll probably warrant some additional explanations of how to get stuff.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 20, 2010, 12:35:59 am

Two things I noticed, not sure if its the mod or a bug of DF but all the traders are only bringing me leather and maybe a handful of other things. They never have wagons, and I do have room for them to bring them. And if I remove a rope or chain restraint the rope/chain is forever gone.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cheddarius on May 20, 2010, 12:43:19 am

Daaang, Ironworks looks awesome. 31.04 means that it works with the newest version of DF, right?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 20, 2010, 12:47:40 am

Other then what I just mentioned it works just dandy in the newest build.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: LordShotGun on May 20, 2010, 05:48:14 am

Quote from: JusticeRings on May 20, 2010, 12:35:59 am

Two things I noticed, not sure if its the mod or a bug of DF but all the traders are only bringing me leather and maybe a handful of other things. They never have wagons, and I do have room for them to bring them. And if I remove a rope or chain restraint the rope/chain is forever gone.

The leather thing happens in unmodded dwarf fort, possibly due to leather being light, pretty valuable, and able to be stored in bins so traders bring lots of it because its easy to transport.

As for the restraits...did you mass dump any items? Because while built, the chain/rope will not be dumped but as soon as you deconstruct it, the dwarfs auto dump it. Same with weapons in weapon traps and stones in stonefalls.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 20, 2010, 12:02:53 pm

dont dump anything, so it will be in the refuse pile?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Bishop36 on May 21, 2010, 02:38:15 am

This is awesome.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 25, 2010, 02:42:34 pm

No real news to speak of. I've been horribly busy and haven't had time to do much. Currently finishing up balancing the Mithril and Levisium alloys right now. After that I'll start playing around with Alchemy. I'm a bit limited, in that you can't have reactions look inside containers to get stuff. So, no filling up vials with mercury or whatnot and using it later.

There are a few workarounds with this, but I need to try stuff out to see which one I want to use. None that are ideal, sadly.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 26, 2010, 04:10:48 pm

Played around with the rest of the alloys. Those seem to be balanced about right, although I still need to play with pure Levisium a bit more.

I think I've found a good workaround for the alchemy issue. It does mean that all alchemy reagents will have to be put into glass vials, but I think it'll be doable. My first test reaction doesn't throw any errors, at least. I'll test it tonight once I get home from work. If this does what I expect it to I'll be able to really start moving forward with the alchemy aspect!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 27, 2010, 10:21:40 pm

Well, I've gotten my alchemist's workshop to give me back a 'quicksilver filled green glass' flask from cinnabar and a green glass vial. Only problem with this is that the flask is still technically empty. I can probably fill it with liquid mercury, though, which might give us some redundancy but should at least stop the dwarves from filling up vials of mercury with dwarven wine and taking it on patrol with them.

I'll play with it and see how it goes. It's a workaround, no doubt about it, but if I do it right this should give us functional alchemy until Toady changes things so that the game can look in containers for reagents.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cheddarius on May 27, 2010, 11:36:37 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 27, 2010, 10:21:40 pm

filling up vials of mercury with dwarven wine and taking it on patrol with them.

I see no problem with this whatsoever.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 27, 2010, 11:41:42 pm

Well, it does have the added problem that any flask they grab for the soldiers won't be usable for further alchemy, which might get annoying.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ultimarr on May 28, 2010, 02:16:40 am

 I just want to say, thanks for making such an awesome mod. I have yet to try 2.1, but I will once my contest fort is done. The 40d version was awesome, and expect the very same this time 'round! Yay :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: JusticeRings on May 28, 2010, 04:45:06 am

You sir are a genius. I wish I had remembered to put this in on my current fortress. The classic method of getting steel is really hating me/not working. So yours is a favorite.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: UnLimiTeD on May 28, 2010, 08:20:47 am

What will alchemy actually be good for?
I tinkered with it myself, but so far I didn't find a lot to use it for, so I pretty much gave up on the matter.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: LordShotGun on May 28, 2010, 09:24:12 am

Could we get a list of new metals and where they would be found? Like in what kind of stone would Mithril and Levisium be found?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on May 28, 2010, 10:23:27 am

@UnLimiTeD: My immediate goal is to use it for extracting Mithril/Levisium from their respective ores as well as the creation of the various Tempered Crystal metals and the Elemental Metals. Long term, I'd like to see what other things I can do with it. Perhaps some sort of poison gas trap.

@LordShotGun: I will, once I get everything in. In the 40d version Mithril showed up in Granite & Gneiss while Levisium showed up in Marble. That'll probably hold true for this version. Not sure about the Elemental Gems, but I imagine that Frost Crystal will still show up in Microcline.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: bluephoenix on May 31, 2010, 07:23:46 am

Great mod, all those civilizations sure bring a lot of "fun" if treated the right way

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 01, 2010, 12:21:28 pm

Anyone ticked off the Frost Giants enough to get them to siege yet? I haven't tried, but based on how nasty they are in the arena I'm guessing they're pretty scary.

As for the next version, I don't think I can pre-fill the newly produced bottles. Apparently the only thing you can fill with a reaction product is one of the reagents. *sigh*

So, we'll just have to have odd empty '* filled green glass flasks' and work with that. Shouldn't be too bad, since you should be able to control where things go with proper stock-pile usage.

In any case, I'm going to move ahead with the alchemy work and start getting all of the basic alchemy components made up. Then I can work on the new workshops/furnaces necessary to make the new metals.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 02, 2010, 11:47:53 am

Looks like Chaos Dwarves, Tainted Men, and Dark Elves was the preferred naming scheme, so I'll go with that.

New poll is up! Basically, we've all noticed that the frequency of ores and gems is insane. You can't create a fortress now without tripping over a few dozen veins of ore and enough gems to create a tower of gem windows. All without even trying to find something worthwhile.

I'm tempted to reduce the numbers of gems and ores so that they show up much less frequently. You'd still get pockets of normal rocks, though. I might be able to get around that a bit by having some new 'cluster' layer stones to even things out. So the game could just spawn a cluster of Limestone in the limestone layer instead of some other rock. It'd even things out a bit.

Do people want this? Or does everyone love the overabundance of minerals?


Oh, and I noticed that Flint and Bladestone are messed up. They both need the [IS_STONE] tag added to them to be usable. That'll be fixed in the next version I release, but it's pretty simple to add yourself if you've been bothered by them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Roses on June 02, 2010, 03:55:52 pm

Currently I think Minerals and gems are to easy to get, but I don't think it should be so hard to find them that you have to dig up the whole map just to make a suit of armor for your dwarves. Is there any way to set it up so minerals are more abundant the deeper you go down? That would be a nice compromise, that way if you wanted to find the minerals they are there, but you're not just running into a crap ton of everything right away.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 02, 2010, 04:09:12 pm

Sadly, no. All I can do is change the overall ratios of ores and gems compared to the rest of the rock types.

I'm not looking to make it so hard that you jump for joy at the mere sight of a hematite vein. I was just thinking of tweaking the numbers to try to reduce the amounts down to 40d levels.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Psieye on June 02, 2010, 04:17:48 pm

Possibly expand that poll to have a middle ground option? 40d was too scarce for my tastes, but I understand how DF2010 is insane. Personally I'm happy with the abundance but I wouldn't mind a middle ground option. Or perhaps, tweak ore differently to gems - it's much easier to import gems than it is to import metal. Sure sieges leave behind metal, but it's dwarf labour intensive to collect then melt it all down.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 02, 2010, 04:33:33 pm

I liked the 40d levels. I think now with waaaay more Z levels even 40d level of mineral abundance would give you tons of metals. Also, the open caverns reduce the need of exploratory mining.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ampoliros on June 02, 2010, 04:45:32 pm

I'm quite happy with the level of minerals in the new version; it's a bit draining when you're just starting out and trying to stockpile most of them until you can get smelting set up, but it also prevents you from having to lovingly treasure every single last bar of tin and silver and lead because you've no idea if there's any more.

Anyhow, i had heard at least with some people they had simply decided to make it so that smelting reactions consumed more iron ore per bar to deal with the overabundance; i haven't really seen fit to do so thus far. At the very least, i'd make it an optional thing to addin/swap out.

Also, i did catch a frost giant siege, but i had no military set up what with bugs to test any combat stuff.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 02, 2010, 04:47:19 pm

An optional set of files might be a good compromise.

1 normal set, 1 set with reduced ore/gem values, and a new file that adds in clusters of the layer stones to them. That way people can mix-match the options to get whatever level of mineral density they like.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2010, 12:14:33 pm

Some disappointing news for Alchemy. My testing so far makes it look like we won't be getting any alchemical components from traders. You can still order the base stones, of course, but vials of quicksilver or vitriol or whatever don't look like they're something you can request from a liaison. Not 100% sure they won't show up on the caravan anyway, but I haven't seen any yet.

I'm going to try one new thing. I'm going to make a new Toy object called a Jar, and have the reactions produce a filled jar instead of a filled flask. This will, at least, prevent your soldiers from walking off with your alchemy supplies. You should also be able to request Jars from the traders, although I have no idea if we'll see the alchemy filled ones show up or not.

EDITED: I'm not quite as worried as I was before. Now that I've broken everything out onto a spreadsheet it seems that the Mithril, Levisium, and Elemental metals will require different alchemical items than the Crystal items. And, except for Void Crystal, those should be pretty easy to get.

Mithril is fine. It's far above even Crucible Steel in effectiveness, so I'm fine with it being expensive and difficult to make.

Levisium isn't too much of a problem. It's mostly just expensive and light anyway, since it tends to make weaker alloys.

The Elemental metals might end up being rebalanced a bit. Glacium was originally pretty common, since it was really just a cheap but limited way to get a steel equivalent from iron. While Frost Crystals will probably stay common, I'm not sure how easy it'll be to actually make Glacium with the new system, so I might get a power boost. The other types were always very powerful and rare, so I imagine the additional alchemical steps won't do all that much to deter them any more then their old scarcity did.

Another option is to add in some plants that can provide some of the more common components. Perhaps the wood of some underground trees could be used, to give you incentive to delve deep. Plus, it'd explain why the dwarves are so much better at alchemy than most of the other races. This doesn't look like it'll be quite as necessary, but still might be a neat idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 02:12:22 pm

Most of the base alchemy modding is done now. I need to run some more tests, but it looks like it'll work pretty well. Since I'm using Jars instead of vials now I've added in a Jar making workshop. Basically a glassblower's furnace that converts raw glass to jars so you don't have to make tons of glass toys hoping for jars. Plus it makes 3 jars at a time from one raw glass object, so it should let you create plenty of glass jars for use in alchemy.

Next up is the addition of the new furnaces for the Crystal Tempering, Mithril/Levisium extraction, Elemental Infusions, and the like.

Once I have those I can get the reactions in to actually make the new metals.

So, things are moving along nicely now and hopefully the new alchemy will be interesting without being so cumbersome that no one bothers with the new metals.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: UnLimiTeD on June 04, 2010, 06:12:28 pm

Just reading about all those metals makes it look overly complicated to me. At 1 am, that is. ;)

Regarding the poll, how do you actually reduce them?
I take it the standard way would be the chances, which are mostly around 100, but reducing them to 20 or 15, while significantly lessening the message spam, didn't have a real subjective effect.

Is there an other way to do so, or would that be the way to go?
In that case, I think 15 for common stuff and coal, 10 for weaponizeable metals and cheap gems, and less for the precious stuff sounds like a good amount.
It would probably still be slightly more than 40d.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2010, 06:21:28 pm

Well, one major idea I had was to add in cluster stones for each layer stone. That would replace a lot of the mineral pockets with more "layer" stone. You'd probably get messages about striking Limestone or whatever, but it should do the trick.

I'm going to test all of that out once I get the Alchemy done. I've got a lot done there, but there is a lot more to do. It's also going to need a pretty decent spreadsheet or usage guide, I'm sure.

On that note, I've added in a new workshop called the Oil Press. It takes a new aboveground plant (the Oil Nut) or Tunnel Tube and presses it into oil which is placed in glass jars. This oil is going to be used to Froth separate Cobaltite into Midnight Elixir. The Midnight Elixir will be used to make Night Crystal (of course), as well as being an additive you can use with Bronze or Copper. Cobaltite has arsenic as well as cobalt in it, so this way you can make arsenic bronze or arsenic copper, which is a bit stronger than the base versions. So, even if you don't make much Night Crystal the Cobaltite will still be useful. I think the Frothing job will also need a new workshop. Maybe a frothing pool or something.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Godmouth on June 05, 2010, 01:42:01 am

Reading about all this stuff makes me really want to play it. Will it work with 03? Because 04 and 05 don't work for me.

For the minerals, I'd like to see less, but not as little as in 40d. Something in between would be nice, so you don't have giant piles of redundant material, but still don't have to explore the entire map just to find metal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Drawde on June 05, 2010, 05:38:44 am

A question about magma blast furnaces.  Where do you need the channel for the magma to fuel it?  I've torn down two of them so far because they didn't have any fuel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lofn on June 05, 2010, 10:13:36 am

Quote from: Drawde on June 05, 2010, 05:38:44 am

A question about magma blast furnaces.  Where do you need the channel for the magma to fuel it?  I've torn down two of them so far because they didn't have any fuel.

It needs to be under one of the eight boundary tiles, and it needs to have at least 4 units of magma below it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 05, 2010, 11:02:39 am

Quote from: Godmouth on June 05, 2010, 01:42:01 am

Reading about all this stuff makes me really want to play it. Will it work with 03? Because 04 and 05 don't work for me.

For the minerals, I'd like to see less, but not as little as in 40d. Something in between would be nice, so you don't have giant piles of redundant material, but still don't have to explore the entire map just to find metal.

There haven't been any raws changes from 03-05, so it should work just fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Drawde on June 05, 2010, 12:41:21 pm

Quote from: Lofn on June 05, 2010, 10:13:36 am

It needs to be under one of the eight boundary tiles, and it needs to have at least 4 units of magma below it.

The blast furnace is a 5x5 custom workshop from this mod.  I can't figure out which of the 25 tiles works, except it's not your choice of any of the edge tiles.  And it has enough magma.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 08, 2010, 11:57:54 am

Hmmm, I actually hadn't tested the Magma Blast Furnace, so I'm not sure. I'll try testing it out tonight to see which tiles work.

In other news, I've gotten most of the alchemy in and working. I'm currently adding in the actual reactions to make the various Crystal metals, as well as the separation of Mithril from truesilver and Levisium from levitite.

I've also made a slight change to the ores. Smelting truesilver will now always give Bright Silver, and smelting levisium will give Green Copper. Only by using the separation chamber will you be able to get the pure metals out from the ore. From there you can use them as-is or alloy them with other metals at the smelter.

I have a huge amount of testing to do, but I hope to have all of the new raws at least in place and not throwing errors by the end of the week. I might also release a new Abandoned World with the new code so that people can test stuff out before the actual release.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 09, 2010, 11:39:05 am

Well, 31.06 is out now and this one actually has some raw changes. So I'll need to get those properly integrated. He also did some balance tweaks similar to Arkhal's, so I'll have to see which values I like better (or if they're the same).

Otherwise, I'm busy testing out the new Crystals as well as Mithril/Levisium and their alloys. Once I'm happy with those I can move on to the Elemental weapons. I have a lot of playing around to do with those. I'd like to see if Glacium and Incendium will be more effective against fire/ice creatures than normal weapons. Not sure if the game really supports that yet, but we'll see.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Roses on June 09, 2010, 02:50:07 pm

Can't wait for the next release. Really digging (pardon the pun) the ironworks section. Very excited to see your alchemical work. Keep up the great work!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 09, 2010, 03:52:36 pm

Glad you're enjoying the ironworks! I think the Alchemy will add a nice touch to the game. It's generally not required to have a functional fortress, but will add an interesting level of complexity for those who enjoy that sort of thing.


On 31.06, I've looked through the files. You should just be able to install Civilization Forge 2.1 over 31.06 and it'll work fine. I didn't touch some of the files he changed, and the rest of them are already balanced properly (at least for the mod).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 12:35:41 pm

Didn't get much chance to mod last night, but I do a bunch of arena tests for the Elemental metals. Elementium is just below Adamantine in power, which is as it should be. Tempestium bolts are borderline unfair, but since that's a scarce resource and they get used up with use I'm not too worried about that.

Still trying to balance out Glacium, Incendium, and Ward Iron. It's getting close. (Fun Fact, a small group Frost Giants using Glacium can kill whole armies. Even those using 'better' materials)

Glacium and Incendium have fixed temperatures, but that doesn't seem to do a whole lot right now. I'll keep messing with stuff, but giving them decent elemental properties may have to wait until Toady adds more capability to dwarf fortress.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 10, 2010, 01:55:33 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 12:35:41 pm

(Fun Fact, a small group Frost Giants using Glacium can kill whole armies. Even those using 'better' materials)

Does it mean some of the alchemical metals will be used by different civilizations? Because that would be awesome. Having it only for the player would get too easy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 02:22:25 pm

Yes, different races can now have an appropriate array of metals. So you'll see various groups using the different special metals.

Still debating who gets what, a little bit.

Frost Giants get Glacium, of course.

High Elves get Mithril.

Dyansauri get Tempered/Blood/Night Crystal

Violet Xelics get all of the Crystals, including Void.

Hobgoblins should have something significant, but I haven't decided what yet. Possibly Mithril like the High Elves, since the hobgoblins are their Evil counterpart.

Chaos Dwarves get pretty much everything, of course. They're supposed to be your worst enemies.

I'm thinking that perhaps the Silver Xelics will get the Elemental metals to better differentiate them from the Violet Xelics.

Can't decide what to do with the goblins, though. Right now I think the best they get is Bright Silver. Which is decent, but still pretty weak compared to what a lot of the other races get.

Vamarii and Humans probably get the short end of the stick, being pretty much stuck with Bronze. But that's ok. I don't want too many trading partners showing up with good stuff. That'd probably get a bit too easy.

Bugbears, of course, get squat. Might even knock them down so that they really only get to use Copper, Silver, and Gold from native deposits. They're supposed to be pretty primitive and poor at metalworking, after all.

Sand Raiders need thought.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 10, 2010, 02:40:26 pm

Can you somehow influence the rarity of the expensive materials, or will invaders spawn with pretty much full mithril inventories? Because that would make getting good weapons really easy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 10, 2010, 02:42:46 pm

I don't think I can. But from what I've seen, the game is pretty haphazard about what people show up with. So you'll almost never see anyone in full mithril. You'll get some guy with mithril gloves, tempered crystal chain shirt, wrought iron leggings, night crystal boots, a bronze shield, and a copper sword. Or some other random mish-mash of metals. It's pretty bizzare, really.

But I'll see what further testing gives me.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 11, 2010, 04:38:48 pm

Using DF31.06, I'm not able to generate worlds with this mod.  DF just crashes as soon as I begin generation

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 11, 2010, 05:02:49 pm

Hmmm. Odd. Are you getting any error messages in errorlog.txt or gamelog.txt?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 11, 2010, 06:09:06 pm

It seems that none of the tokens are being recognized.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 11, 2010, 06:17:14 pm

Hmmm. Can you give me the specific errors? It works fine on my computer.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Deon on June 11, 2010, 06:23:27 pm

I think there can be duplicates or a wrong install. Try to make a clean install. Everything works fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 11, 2010, 06:57:42 pm

I've tried it with a clean install twice, once with the phobeous graphics pack, and one without any mods at all.


This is only the first bit of the errorlog.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/material_template_default.txt"
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: GRAY
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: ORANGE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: ORANGE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: GRAY
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: RED
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: BROWN
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: GRAY
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: PINK
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: MAUVE
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: PALE_PINK
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: BLACK
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: YELLOW_GREEN
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: YELLOW_GREEN
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: YELLOW_GREEN
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: CREAM
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: DARK_GREEN
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: DARK_GREEN
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: DARK_GREEN
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: CREAM
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: BROWN
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Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: DARK_VIOLET
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: SCARLET
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: JADE
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: GOLD
Unrecognized Color Token in Material Template: CINNAMON
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*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/building_custom_cf.txt"
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*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_bugbear_cf.txt"
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: HUMANOID
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: 2EARS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: 2EYES
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: NOSE
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: 2LUNGS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: HEART
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: GUTS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: ORGANS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: HUMANOID_JOINTS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: THROAT
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: NECK
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: SPINE
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: BRAIN
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: SKULL
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: 5FINGERS
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: 5TOES
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: MOUTH
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: FACIAL_FEATURES
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: GENERIC_TEETH_WITH_LARGE_EYE_TEETH
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: RIBCAGE
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Gloss Token: PAW
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Creature Token: INSULATION
BUGBEAR:Unrecognized Tissue Template: CLAW_TEMPLATE

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 11, 2010, 07:06:32 pm

Looks like you're missing some core Dwarf Fortress raws.

How are you installing this? You have to do a clean install of 31.06 and simply copy the files from Civilization Forge into it. Don't delete any files that exist already, just overwrite the ones that are changed with the mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 11, 2010, 08:39:34 pm

...
Yes, because installing the mod properly would make far too much sense. 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 11, 2010, 10:37:24 pm

Sorry, not trying to be insulting. I'm just not sure how you can be missing core raw files, which is what most of those errors seem to be showing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 11, 2010, 11:06:00 pm

Sorry, my previous comment was supposed to be self-deprecating, not sarcastic.  I was missing the core files.  The problem has now been fixed.

Although I have run into a new problem now: Chert doesn't show up on the stone menu, but it is still being used for construction.  Any idea how to fix this?

Edit: never mind, fixed it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 12, 2010, 12:28:09 pm

Ah, ok! Glad it's all fixed now. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 17, 2010, 04:05:07 pm

Just popping in to say I'm really looking forward for the next version. I haven't used any mod ever but I've already decided I'll start a new game in Civilization Forge as soon as it comes out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 17, 2010, 05:38:32 pm

Haven't had as much testing time as I'd like, but things are moving along. I think I'll have the new version out sometime next week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Orkel on June 18, 2010, 02:18:19 pm

The download link seems down for me, could you upload it to mediafire aswell?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 18, 2010, 03:04:16 pm

The DFFD seems to be up again. Try now.

If it still doesn't work I can try uploading it somewhere else once I get home.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Orkel on June 18, 2010, 03:26:16 pm

Works now, good.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 22, 2010, 09:15:38 am

I'm running this mod with Phobeus graphics pack and the completed civforge graphics pack.  Its running perfectly, with two exceptions.  Neither Chaos Dwarves or cave crabs are displayed properly.  Any ideas on how to fix this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 22, 2010, 09:44:30 am

Hmm...strange. There shouldn't be anything new about those two, graphically. What kinds of problems are you seeing?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ThaMuzz on June 22, 2010, 02:07:09 pm

Both show up as the would without a graphics pack.
EDIT:  Fixed the dwarves. In the graphics file for the chaosdwarves, they refer to DWARF_CHAOS, instead of DWARF_TAINTED.  Still working on crabs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 23, 2010, 06:01:51 pm

Ok, since real life has seriously curtailed by testing time, I'm putting a test version of 2.2 up for download (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2570).

Please test it out and let me know how well everything works for you. I've included a file called Alchemy Basics which should help a bit with figuring out the various alchemy stuff, but a lot of stuff hasn't been documented yet. Hopefully you'll manage anyway.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 23, 2010, 07:09:07 pm

YES!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 23, 2010, 07:17:10 pm

Here is some basic info on the new metals:

Tempered Crystal - Better than copper, worse than bronze
Blood Crystal - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel. Makes better Bladed Weapons than Night Crystal, but worse for blunt weapons and armor
Night Crystal - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel. Makes better Blunt Weapons and Armor than Blood Crystal
Void Crystal - Better than Steel, but worse than Orihalcum or Mithril

Bright Silver - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel
Green Copper - Worse than copper, but worth a lot more and a bit lighter

Mithril - Much better than Steel, only worse than Tempestium, Elementium, or Adamantine
Royal Bronze - Better and Lighter than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel.
Orihalcum - Much better than Steel. Only worse than pure Mithril, the Elemental Metals, and Adamantine
Levisium - Very weak, but almost weightless
Verdant Bronze - Slightly weaker than Bronze, but lighter
Shimmersteel - Slightly weaker than Steel, but lighter

Glacium - Stronger than Steel and Void Crystal, but weaker than Mithril. Has a fixed low temperature (about 0 degrees Fahrenheit)
Incendium - Almost as strong as Mithril. Can only make weapons. Has a fixed high temperature.
Ward Iron - Almost as strong as Mithril. Can only make Armor
Tempestium - Only Elementium and Adamantine are better for ammo. Can only be used to make Bolts/Arrows
Elementium - Only Adamantine is superior to this metal

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2010, 06:07:18 pm

what do the fixed low temperatures do to dwarves who wear it for armor?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 24, 2010, 06:11:50 pm

In the Arena, it doesn't seem to do anything.

I haven't had time to sufficiently test it out in Fortress Mode. Nor do I know what Incendium items will do over long periods of time in Fortress mode.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on June 24, 2010, 06:51:41 pm

ah sounds dangerously FUN!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cult of the Raven on June 26, 2010, 02:31:44 am

Hi - I'm running a mildly modded version of Civforge 2.1.

everything was absolutely a-ok in DF 31.06. I was getting a bug where web-lichen bushes showed as a blank square, but once I had fiddled with the file (I think I changed the display tile from '#' to the number of the pound tile) the problem was fixed.

However, now in 31.07 and 31.08, all the shrubs are showing up as white # signs. it's not game-breaking, but it is a little annoying, because I can't think what could be wrong. Any ideas?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ampoliros on June 26, 2010, 09:37:53 am

I noticed that there's a tag missing in the 2.1 and 2.2 test files - web lichens don't have the [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK] tag so they can't be brewed.

ThaMuzz: dunno if you fixed it, but the problem with the cave crab graphics is that the tag changed from [CAVE_CRAB] to [CRAB_CAVE] (or vice versa, i forget which) between civforge versions for 40d and .31, so you'll have to update the graphics files with the new tag, same as with the chaos dwarves

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: ojd on June 26, 2010, 10:04:10 am

I found a couple of errors:

The oil press does not need oil nuts to produce a jar of oil.
I could not build the tempering chamber, it would not accept any of the hatches produced as fire safe including ones made out of steel.  Removal of the fire safe tag in the building raw allowed construction.
The frothing chamber produced 5 oil filled jars instead of 5 midnight elixir jars.  The produced oil filled jars allowed the infusion of night and void crystal.

A couple of oddities:

Entities that have ethics against the use of wood do not use bins when bringing trade goods.
Chaos dwarf thieves appear with only a hat and a bag.

And some suggestions:

Would it be possible to only have one type of glass jar? It would simplify the reaction making.
A training building for the alchemy skill would be appreciated.
Some of the ores are hard to find on all maps such as rock salt.  Would it be possible to have another option? 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: microMOOSE on June 26, 2010, 11:52:32 am

I've noticed every captain of the guard assigned is bursting into flames and dying. :(  I could send you my save file but I'm not sure how to do that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 26, 2010, 12:50:21 pm

@Cult of the Raven: That sounds a bit odd. I'll have to go in and see what might be up with that. Nothing i can think of would cause all plants to show up incorrectly, though.

@Ampoliros: Thanks, I'll get the drink tag added in.

@ojd: The oil press definitely sounds wrong. I'll check that out. Not sure what's up with the frothing chamber, might just be a name bug. The hatch cover issue is annoying, I discovered that yesterday. But I guess even having wooden hatch covers wouldn't be *too* bad, and most people would use stone anyway.

Does anyone know if Elves bring bins? I'd imagine not, so I guess it's more of a DF bug/feature than a CF one. The Chaos dwarves probably have a civ that doesn't use clothing (to cut down on junk in battles). I can make sure they always have a tunic or robe or something, though.

I considered having any type of glass make a generic 'alchemical jar', but wasn't sure if losing the material type was worth it. Might be, just to cut down on the annoyance factor.

A training building would be doable, I suppose. Would it make that big of a difference, though? I think Alchemy skill will just let them work a bit faster.

As for the ores, I agree. I talked with Toady, though, and I think I have a solution. Since traders will bring bars, I'm thinking of creating a building that creates 'transport tubes' that work kind of like jars. Basically a way to sort of sensibly allow trading alchemical components as bars. That should open up the alchemy options a good bit. You'd just have to use the building to transfer the alchemy items from the bars to the jars, which would be simple and help train up alchemy.

@microMOOSE: That's...really odd. All you should have to do is upload your save folder to DFFD and I can take a look at it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: microMOOSE on June 26, 2010, 01:25:43 pm

I have a feeling I know what it was. :D He was wearing a incendium battle axe.  Which I assume is not meant to be a worn material.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6028832/flamin%20dorfs.PNG)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 26, 2010, 01:28:34 pm

Ah! So it does have an effect in fortress mode!

Guess I'll have to reduce the temperature to a non-lethal level.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on June 26, 2010, 01:46:29 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on June 26, 2010, 01:28:34 pm

Ah! So it does have an effect in fortress mode!

Guess I'll have to reduce the temperature to a non-lethal level.

or give dwarves immunity to that level of heat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on June 27, 2010, 01:30:59 pm

Oh wow... first migrant in a wave of 23 was a miner with an incendium pick.  He lasted about 20 steps or so before bursting into flames... causing a forest fire... which killed 22 other migrants.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 27, 2010, 01:49:55 pm

Well, Incendium is officially too much Fun, I suppose. I'm testing out a lower fixed temp right now. We'll see what works.

Might have a patched version of the test files out today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Eagle_eye on June 27, 2010, 02:16:02 pm

just a question, can the blast furnace also mass-produce crucible steel?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 27, 2010, 02:52:33 pm

Quote from: Eagle_eye on June 27, 2010, 02:16:02 pm

just a question, can the blast furnace also mass-produce crucible steel?

No, crucible steel can only be created in a crucible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Eagle_eye on June 27, 2010, 03:01:22 pm

I just had 7 ambushes and 3 caravans at once, and they all killed eachother, leaving only two dynasauri guards.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on June 27, 2010, 06:27:02 pm

I am drooling over the idea of having my trap entrace covered with incendium blocks.  Wondering how to make blocks of the stuff without killing the dorfs.

will have to see the effect of glacium on water.  Or dropping goblins in a galcium/incentium checkerboard pit.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Eagle_eye on June 27, 2010, 11:08:21 pm

even better: flaming arrows (incentium heads)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 28, 2010, 05:53:14 pm

Still trying to figure out why the Oil Press isn't requiring Oil Nuts. Also playing around with the Incendium values a bit.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on June 29, 2010, 01:58:57 am

I have play 3 years into a game so far, and I can make one observation -

Its too easy to get all the metals from caravans.  Wealth is far to easy to come by (its a game problem).  With just a 10x5 farm plot, flowing into foods and textiles (alcohol for my dorfs), and 13 dorfs (1 farmer, 1 brewer, 1 cook, 2 threshers, 2 millers, 2 weavers, 2 dyers, 2clothiers) I can buyout every caravan.  Melt down the goods...

These new materials alter the game dramatically, and aquiring them so easily should not be possible... then again, ambushers were dressed in this way...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ampoliros on June 29, 2010, 07:41:52 am

The oil press thing looks like there's a missing tag at the end of the reagent info. It should look like:
   [REAGENT:A:1:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:OIL_NUT:PLANT]
as opposed to
   [REAGENT:A:1:PLANT:NONE:PLANT_MAT:OIL_NUT]

also, odd question - i was wondering if it was intended that many of the new CF plants be only plantable inside their native biomes. It'd make sense as an encouragement to trade, but i was pretty confused when I bought a bag of black pepper seeds and couldn't plant them  :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 29, 2010, 09:46:50 am

@Ampoliros: Yeah, that was it. Felt rather stupid when I figured it out. And, yes, it is intended for plants to only grow in their own biome. You have to have some reason to open your doors!

@marcusbjol: Being able to get all of the metals from trade shouldn't be overly unbalanced, since with the reduced trade capacity you can't actually get too many pure bars of metal and melting down items from traders won't get you all that much. And, as you mentioned, your enemies show up with it as well so it should all work out. But if people find it too easy to just outfit everyone in full mithril armor without having access to truesilver that might be a problem. After all, I'd rather you had a reason to use alchemy.

I do think that green copper and bright silver are worth too much right now. The ores, while they should be valuable, are really only valuable because they can be turned into Mithril and Levisium. The natural smelted metals really aren't all that great and world-wise aren't really any rarer then gold, so they shouldn't be quite so expensive.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on June 29, 2010, 12:15:04 pm

Its not the nature of the materials, but the amount of them and their relative strength vs existing materials.

3 years into it, not building an alchemist shop, I have:

7 royal bronze
5 orihalcum
9 glacium
4 tempestium
4 ward iron
6 mithril

and I have not worked the caravans yet to import the high end stuff to melt yet.

On a side note, I love it when an sheathed invader in an ambush with an incindium weapon...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 29, 2010, 12:20:47 pm

Hmm, I wish I could make materials rare without forbidding them outright.

Do you find it unbalanced in practice? As in, you can make enough armor and weapons from the high end metals you've gotten that you don't have any real problems with the ambushes?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on June 30, 2010, 02:14:14 am

Well, this is the first time I have used a weapon trap hallway... very nice (only been playin a month or 2)... so I havent fielded a military yet.  I am waiting 20 of a type of ore before making a peice of armor.

I estimate, as in my 2 smelters cannot keep up with goblinite supply, that all the ores will be readily avaible enough that I can field 10 dorfs in mithril , another 10 in void crystal, another 10 in orihalcum... all within 10 years sitting behind my walls.

It probably has to do with the item probablity of weapon and armor grade materials went up considerably (3 or 4 times), so that means copper/iron/steel/silver/bronze happens 1/3 or 1/4th the time.  The rest are the new materials.

If there was a way to limit these materials to only the player civ, that would fix this problem.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on June 30, 2010, 02:20:50 am

Well, it's easy to limit them to just the player. I can make them all DEEP metals, which means you can only get them by making them yourself. No one will be able to trade you bars or use items made from it, and no one will be able to use it.

That's how it was in 40d. Mostly because Civs defaulted to the most powerful thing available in that version, and I didn't want all of your enemies running around in mithril.

What does everyone else think? Too common to allow the other civs to actually use?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on July 01, 2010, 05:56:18 pm

naw, i thinks it's awesoem that an enemy commander can show up with a flaming sword.... and the burst into flame from it's hilt.. FUN!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 01, 2010, 08:03:48 pm

It's too bad that blade and hilt can't be different materials. If they could, incedium would be the ultimate in blades.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 01, 2010, 08:27:40 pm

Yeah. Someday, perhaps.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: microMOOSE on July 03, 2010, 12:09:46 pm

I noticed that like attacking forgotten beasts you can't attack giant ants... I had to station them to make em attack.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 03, 2010, 12:25:39 pm

Hmm. Odd. I'll have to look into that. I thought I'd selected specific ants for killing before, I may have just been stationing squads around.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: microMOOSE on July 04, 2010, 10:56:29 am

I notice that chitin cannot be made into "leather" and that it just sits in the tanning workshop.  Quivers and stuff made with it cannot be put into any stockpiles.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 04, 2010, 11:28:48 am

Hmm. I haven't noticed any problems when using chitin. I know it doesn't become 'leather' specifically, but it always ends up in my stockpiles and I can use it as if it were leather just fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 04, 2010, 07:02:32 pm

I will be livestreaming Dwarf Fortress with this mod for the next few days.
However I am also doing a challenge, so I may die out.
Very fast.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on July 05, 2010, 12:12:44 pm

The Hammerdwarf bashes The Sugar Beetle in the right second leg with her ({levisium war hammer}), but the attack glances away!


LOL - Might as well be attacking with a peacock feather.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 05, 2010, 12:33:50 pm

Yeah...levisium's pretty much worthless for a blunt weapon. It works as an edged weapon against an unarmored opponent, but that's about it.

Right now it's also pretty worthless as armor, since just about anything will rip through it. I might change that, since weightless armor is a cool idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 05, 2010, 12:46:48 pm

Kinda Off topic, but how can I get dwarves to hunt?

Annoying.

and Meph, are there any civs I should watch out for because of early sieges?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 05, 2010, 12:50:06 pm

Make sure they have ammo assigned to hunters from the military screen, and make sure you have quivers and crossbows available.

No early siege groups in normal Civ Forge right now. As far as enemies to watch out for, it's still Tainted Dwarves and Violet Xelics.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 05, 2010, 12:51:34 pm

Okay. My poor dwarves shouldn't have too many problems.
Ah, I guess it is the quivers.


Also, Meph, chain coifs can be made from cloth.
I am assuming this is not right.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 05, 2010, 01:16:49 pm

Well, you shouldn't be able to make them from cloth. But for some reason migrants can come in with lots of stuff made from cloth, like lamellar. It's silly. But I think it's a DF bug, since migrants can show up with cloth quivers and you can't make those yourself.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 05, 2010, 01:37:40 pm

Probably.
It was a starter dorf.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 06, 2010, 04:46:40 pm

Sorry about the delay in getting a new test version out (and the actual new version out at all). I've been horribly busy.

It looks right now like Incendium is going to just be mildly warm for now. I can't really get it to be useful without toasting the users. I did discover that dwarves could haul ridiculously hot stuff around, though, and make super hot floors. Sadly, the floors don't seem to do anything. Might be able to make steam by dropping hot bars into water, though. I'll have to test that.

In any case, I'll try to get the new version of the test files out this week. I'll have the tradable alchemy bars in as well as simplified jars.

Looking forward to after this release, I'll probably start getting the various Primitive Civs in. I'm also thinking about ways to implement a Library in a suitable fashion. Those have cropped up in a few places, and I'd like to do something like that. But probably a bit more intensive then the small-scale stuff that people have put in place so far. I'm thinking Scribing Tables that take in some sort of Ink and Paper (skins, maybe?) and produce Scrolls of a given type. Architecture, Farming, Engineering, and the like. Those scrolls would then be required to produce a library workshop that trains that skill.

I can't enforce skill levels at this point, I don't think, but I figure you can make things realistic yourself if you're so inclined. Simply require a sufficiently high level skill in the Scribing Tables and a sufficiently low skill cap in the actual Library sections and you can simulate highly skilled dwarves writing down knowledge to train lesser-skilled dwarves with.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 06, 2010, 05:00:50 pm

Siege Engineering is a must.
No need in wasting all of the ballista arrows just to increase skill.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: marcusbjol on July 07, 2010, 04:20:12 pm

Umm.. ya used arrows for practice?  Why not set up a catapult and use the most abundant resource around.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 07, 2010, 04:32:57 pm

Well, Siege Operating lets you use stone. Siege Engineering (making the siege engines) requires quite a lot of wood to train up right now. And it's an area where I can really see book learning help a good bit. After all, we don't start out modern engineering students out by having them crank out chunks of stuff endlessly. We start them with basic book learning and THEN have them try to make stuff.

I'm also thinking of making Scroll Tubes so that you can import books on various subjects. They'll show up as bars, but at least they can show up. The ability to import scrolls to make various libraries out of should be nice, since it'll make trade more useful and let you make up for deficiencies in your fortress skill set.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on July 07, 2010, 05:14:59 pm

that would be awesome.  that is all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 07, 2010, 07:43:03 pm

Shameless Self Plug.
My Livestream is up, in case anyone wants to see the mod in work.

 :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on July 07, 2010, 08:36:06 pm

I would, how do I get to it?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 07, 2010, 09:07:08 pm

Blarg. I am off now.
Maybe I should have posted the link.   :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 08, 2010, 01:02:30 pm

Probably.

Spent a good amount of time playing last night. The simplified alchemy jars are in, so now it doesn't matter what type of glass you make them from. Much cleaner this way. A few other random bugs have been fixed, and Incendium no longer makes people burst into flame. Which is kind of sad, but necessary. Might make a 'Blazing Incendium' metal that you can make by adding Flare Crystals to the mix so people can play around with super hot metals if they really want to. It'll be deep so random visitors don't show up with it, but you can make it and play with it to your heart's content.

Still need to add in the transport tubes so you can trade for alchemical supplies, but once that's done I should be able to release the files for more testing by you guys.

Oh! And following a suggestion by someone in another thread I successfully had a marksdwarf take down a Giant Wasp. Apparently the trick is to make sure your marksdwarves have the Hunting job enabled. It only sort of works, but it did work!

Granted, that won't matter once 31..09 comes out, but it's a useful trick for now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 08, 2010, 01:17:07 pm

Man, Giant Beetles are great if you want to train dwarves.
I had a guy with a crossbow hit him unsuccessfully for 68 pages. He skilled up quite a bit.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 08, 2010, 04:54:54 pm

Out of curiosity, why didn't you give frost giants a super-powerful missile weapon to go with their powerful melee weapons?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 08, 2010, 04:58:42 pm

When I originally made them, they were one of the Evil races that could be selected as your opponent for that Fortress (back when you just got 1 race per season). They were very large and had building destroyer, so to keep them manageable I decided they considered missile weapons dishonorable and cowardly so they refuse to use them.

I haven't really changed that about them. And, considering how scary a group of frost giants is, I don't think they need overpowered range weapons.

When I add in the other Elemental giants I'll probably give some of them ranged weapons. Storm Giants, for sure, since they'll get Tempestium.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 08, 2010, 05:02:28 pm

Ah. That makes sense.

Edit: If you're making other elemental giants, you could give the fire ones your hypothetical "super-incendium" metal to use in their weapons and armor, by only giving them the necessary reaction.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 08, 2010, 05:21:25 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on July 08, 2010, 05:02:28 pm

Ah. That makes sense.

Edit: If you're making other elemental giants, you could give the fire ones your hypothetical "super-incendium" metal to use in their weapons and armor, by only giving them the necessary reaction.

That's a fun idea. Make them immune to heat, and give them weapons that cause their opponents to burst into flames. I like it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 08, 2010, 07:22:25 pm

In theory, you could do the same with frost giants and glacium, but I don't think cold is as useful as heat right yet.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2010, 01:00:23 am

Yeah, I tested out super-cold Glacium, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Eventually, though, that'll be the goal.

So, apparently there is a bug where you can't make Crystal glass items right now. Lame. So I'm going to make a temporary workshop so you can make raw crystal glass. It'd be hard to make the Tempered Crystal items without it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2010, 03:29:12 pm

Getting the tradable alchemy bars in place today. Since Toady's releasing a lot of changes with 31.09, I'll probably have to make a bunch of adjustments for that. Once those are done I'll release the next set of test files.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Dohon on July 09, 2010, 03:50:47 pm

I'm looking forward to your changes. Your "Ironworks" sure peaked my interest and now the Library stuff is also looking good.

It isn't a very Dwarfy thing to ask, but, do you intend on having some kind of graphics pack for the mod, somewhere in the future?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2010, 04:29:43 pm

There is a set of graphics that were made for the 40d version, which apparently work with a bit of tweaking. But, no, I don't have any plans for an 'official' set since I don't use graphics packs myself.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Dohon on July 10, 2010, 07:25:51 pm

Alrighty! I used to play everything in ASCII, but a few sets (including RR's) spoiled me. Won't stop me from trying "Civ Forge" once the new version hits and you update the mod. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 11, 2010, 04:40:29 am

The new Alchemy changes are pretty fun. Or, I find them fun, at least. And the expanded materials is kind of cool, with a lot more variety in what can show up. Even if it is pretty random about it.

Looking at the changes for 31.09, it's pretty extensive. Mostly in the sense that I'll need to balance out the new metals with the changes toady made to the combat logic.

Basically, I think we may need to move away from Arkhal's balance mod at this point and start adapting the changes Toady is making. Hopefully it won't be too hard to do. In any case, I imagine it'll take up a good chunk of my time tomorrow.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 11, 2010, 07:05:29 pm

Plugging away at re-balancing everything for 31.10. The changes Toady put in are pretty significant. Tempered Crystal went from being a bit better than copper to being almost as good as steel!

Looks like Iron is also pretty worthwhile now. I'm keeping the hardened wrought iron from ironworks, but I've decided to leave iron usable as it is. Basically hardening iron will give a slight edge over normal iron but is no longer required. Essentially an in-between step between iron and steel. Not quite accurate, since any iron used for weapons has to be hardened in real life, but it does reflect the highly variable iron quality a bit more.

I hope to have the new test files up tonight. Shouldn't be long before I get the actual release out after this. Mostly documentation stuff, which won't be hard but is a bit time consuming.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 12, 2010, 12:37:17 pm

Still tweaking a few things, sorry. Almost got everything working smoothly at this point, though, so I'll have the new test files up today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: kilakan on July 12, 2010, 01:24:24 pm

wooo go Meph

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cheddarius on July 12, 2010, 01:49:24 pm

In general, would you say this mod is easier or more difficult than standard DF?
Why does the first post link to itself?
Is this mod compatible with graphics packs, or will it mess up because the raws are different?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 12, 2010, 02:04:52 pm

I would say it is generally harder, simply due to the increased number of ambushes and sieges from the greater number of enemies. It's not insanely difficult, though, since you have more trading partners and some more powerful materials to outfit your warriors in. Overall it is designed to add more variety and some optional complexity to the game. Especially with the Alchemy that's coming up in the next release.

The first post linked to itself because I copied the change list off of the file that gets distributed with the mod...I fixed it.

It is compatible with graphics packs, including one that was made for Civilization Forge for 40d. It might need some minor tweaking, though. You can use other graphics packs, but the new animals and races won't have graphics (of course). Plus, some of the new races will show up a little odd, like the Xelics who show up as cabinets. Not a big deal in ASCII, but a bit odder with a graphics pack.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cheddarius on July 12, 2010, 02:10:53 pm

All right, thanks!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 12, 2010, 05:46:24 pm

Civilization Forge 2.2 Test#2 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2570) is up!

Could still be a bit buggy, but hopefully things are nicer now. You can now trade for "metal bars" of the Alchemical items, which are actually in glass tubes, but I can't get the game to trade anything other than metal bars. Odd. Anyway, there is a new Alchemy Workbench used to transfer alchemy items from jars to tubes and back again. Kind of a cheap way to skill alchemy right now, I guess.

There is also a new Crystal Furnace, used to get around the fact that crystal glass seems to be bugged. It'll let you make raw crystal glass, crystal glass blocks, and crystal glass windows.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 13, 2010, 04:14:52 pm

Performing various tweaks and whatnot. Still working on balancing the various metals to my satisfaction.

Also, I've updated the Alchemy Basics.

Spoiler: Basic Alchemy Guide (click to show/hide)

--------------
Alchemy Guide
--------------

Basic Alchemy items:

Alchemical Jars: These jars are the basic unit to hold alchemical items. They are created at the Jar Maker's workshop from raw glass (green, clear, or crystal). Note that many reactions require 5 jars, so it is wise to keep many extras on hand.

Alchemical Transport Tubes: These are 'metal' bars that you can import that contain a jar's worth of an alchemical substance. Their contents can be transferred to a jar at the Alchemy Workbench.

----------------------

General Note: All reactions here are assumed to be at the Alchemist's workshop unless stated otherwise

Alchemical Components:

Oil
    Found: Extracted from Oil Nuts or Tunnel Tube in an Oil Press
     Uses: Used to create Night Crystal and Void Crystal
     Requires: 1 bunch of Oil Nuts and 1 alchemical jar OR 1 tunnel tube log and 3 alchemical jars
     Produces: 1 jar of Oil or 3 jars of Oil


Quicksilver
    Found: Extracted from Cinnabar
     Uses: Used to create Blood Crystal and Void Crystal
     Requires: 1 boulder of Cinnabar and 1 alchemical jar
     Produces: 1 jar of quicksilver

Midnight Elixir
    Found: Created from Cobaltite and Oil in a Frothing Pool
     Uses: Used to create Night Crystal and Void Crystal
     Requires: 1 boulder of Cobaltite and 5 alchemical jars filled with Oil
     Produces: 5 jars of Midnight Elixir

Black Antimony
    Found: Extracted from Stibnite
     Uses: Used to create Void Crystal
     Requires: 1 boulder of Stibnite and 5 alchemical jars
     Produces: 5 jars of Black Antimony

Saltpeter
   Found: Either dug from the earth or created from Potash in the Saltpeter beds.
    Uses: Used to create Emen Aren
    Requires: 1 bar of potash
    Produces: 1 boulder of saltpeter
   
Green Vitriol
   Found: Extracted from Melanterite
    Uses: Can be distilled to Oil of Vitriol
    Requires: 1 boulder of Melanterite and 5 alchemical jars
    Produces: 5 jars of Green Vitriol
   
Oil of Vitriol
   Found: Distilled from Green Vitriol or Alum
    Uses: Used to create Emen Aren
    Requires: 1 jar of Green Vitriol OR 1 Jar of Alum
    Produces: 1 jar of Oil of Vitriol   
   
Blue Vitriol
   Found: Extracted from Chalcanthite
    Uses: Used to create Night Crystal and Emen Aren
    Requires: 1 boulder of Chalcanthite and 5 alchemical jars
    Produces: 5 jars of Blue Vitriol
   
Alum
    Found: Extracted from Alunite, Bauxite, or Alum Shale
     Uses: Used to make Oil of Vitriol and Emen Aren
     Requires: 1 boulder of an Alum Stone, 1 bar of Potash, and 5 alchemical jars
     Produces: 5 jars of Alum
     
Emen Aren (Strong Water)
    Found: Made from combining Saltpeter and Oil of Vitriol or combining Blue Vitriol, Saltpeter, and Alum
     Uses: Used to create Relon Aren and separate Mithril/Levisium from ore
     Requires: 1 boulder of Saltpeter and 5 alchemical jars filled with Oil of Vitriol OR 2 alchemical jars filled with Blue Vitriol, 1 boulder of Saltpeter, and 1 jar filled with Alum
     Produces: 5 jars of Emen Aren OR 3 jars of Emen Aren
     
Salt
    Found: Mined from Rock Salt
     Uses: Used to create Nabid Ubal
     Requires: 1 boulder of Rock Salt and 5 alchemical jars
     Produces: 5 jars of Salt
     
Nabid Ubal (Spirit of Salt)
    Found: Made from Salt and Oil of Vitriol
     Uses: Used to create Relon Aren 
     Requires: 1 jar of Salt and 1 jar of Oil of Vitriol
     Produces: 1 jar of Nabid Ubal and 1 empty alchemical jar             
     
Relon Aren (Royal Water)
    Found: Made from Nabid Ubal and Emen Aren
     Uses: Used to create the various Elemental Metals
     Requires: 3 jar of Nabid Ubal and 1 jar of Emen Aren
     Produces: 4 jars of Relon Aren   

Ikal Nabid (Healing Salts)
    Found: Made from Dolomite, talc, or olivine
     Uses: Used to create Tempered Crystal, Blood Crystal, Night Crystal, and Void Crystal
     Requires: 1 boulder of Dolomite, talc, or olivine and 5 alchemical jars
     Produces: 5 jars of Ikal Nabid
         
Elixir of Frost
    Found: Made from Frost Crystal and Relon Aren
     Uses: Used to create Glacium bars
     Requires: 1 cut Frost Crystal gem and 5 jars of Relon Aren
     Produces: 5 jars of Elixir of Frost         

Elixir of Fire
    Found: Made from Fireheart and Relon Aren
     Uses: Used to create Incendium bars
     Requires: 1 cut Fireheart gem and 5 jars of Relon Aren
     Produces: 5 jars of Elixir of Fire
     
Elixir of Fury
    Found: Made from Storm Crystal and Relon Aren
     Uses: Used to create Tempestium bars
     Requires: 1 cut Storm Crystal gem and 5 jars of Relon Aren
     Produces: 5 jars of Elixir of Fury
     
Elixir of Stone
    Found: Made from Ward Crystal and Relon Aren
     Uses: Used to create Ward Iron bars
     Requires: 1 cut Ward Crystal gem and 5 jars of Relon Aren
     Produces: 5 jars of Elixir of Stone
     
Pure Elixir
    Found: Made from Frost Crystal, Fireheart, Storm Crystal, Ward Crystal and Relon Aren
     Uses: Used to create Elementium bars     
     Requires: 1 cut Ward Crystal, 1 Frost Crystal, 1 Fireheart, 1 Storm Crystal, and 5 jars of Relon Aren
     Produces: 5 jars of Pure Elixir
     
-----------------
Infusion Chamber
-----------------
The Infusion Chamber is used to create the various Elemental Metals

1 bar of iron + 1 Elixir of Frost = 1 Glacium Bar                     

1 bar of iron + 1 Elixir of Fire = 1 Incendium Bar

1 bar of iron + 1 Elixir of Fury = 1 Tempestium Bar

1 bar of iron + 1 Elixir of Stone = 1 Ward Iron Bar

1 bar of iron + 1 Pure Elixir = 1 Elementium Bar
   
-----------------
Tempering Chamber
-----------------
The Tempering Chamber is used to turn Raw Crystal Glass into the various Crystal Bars
   
1 Raw Crystal Glass + Ikal Nabid + Fuel = 1 Tempered Crystal Bar

1 Raw Crystal Glass + Ikal Nabid + Midnight Elixir + Fuel = 1 Night Crystal Bar

1 Raw Crystal Glass + Ikal Nabid + Quicksilver + Fuel = 1 Blood Crystal Bar

1 Raw Crystal Glass + Ikal Nabid + Quicksilver + Midnight Elixir + Black Antimony + Fuel = 1 Void Crystal Bar

   
-----------------
Separation Chamber
-----------------
Used to Separate Mithril from Truesilver and Levisium from Levitite

1 boulder Truesilver + Emen Aren = 1 Silver Bar + 1 Mithril Bar (20% chance)             

1 boulder Levitite + Emen Aren = 1 Copper Bar + 1 Levisium Bar (33% chance)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 13, 2010, 04:56:32 pm

Are giant ants supposed to rival dragons in power? I had one tear a mithril-armored outpost liason in half with a single strike, then slaughter two dwarves full kitted out in bronze without even slowing.

Not bitching, but with the new combat changes, I figured maybe the balance you intended was thrown off.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 13, 2010, 05:02:35 pm

Hmmm. No, no, they're not supposed to be that scary. Looks like I'll have to run some tests with the ants.

EDIT: Just ran some arena tests. Moderately skilled Dwarves in full bronze and full iron were able to slaughter giant ants without getting more than scratched. That includes soldiers and queens. Maybe you just got unlucky?

Sounds like I'll need to watch it in fortress mode, though. Things don't always translate smoothly from arena to the actual game for some reason.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 13, 2010, 06:34:27 pm

Did some more general material tests. I think I have the various Crystal types working reasonably well now. I strongly recommend having a good variety of weapon types, as there does not seem to be a clear winner as far as which weapon is best. Certainly not in all situations. Royal Bronze, for example, seems to do best with Spears and War hammers. Why war hammers? I have no idea, since it's lighter than normal bronze. But my dwarves using royal bronze did much better against the iron clad goblins when using hammer and spear than they did with battle axes.

Dwarves are kind of wimpy, though. I guess it's for balance, since you can get better materials than most of your foes, but even using slightly better equipment (like blood crystal) the dwarves still take a lot of damage from goblins using iron.

Oh, and don't tick off the Frost Giants unless you have about 3-1 odds on them or lots of archers in towers. They're scary. I saw 8 Frost Giants take on twice as many Violet Xelics and mop the floor with them. Said Xelics had just mopped up an army of goblins with no losses. Oh, and the Xelics were using Steel and Void Crystal while the Giants had Iron with a few glacium weapons.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 12:02:57 pm

Heh. Lost my most recent test fortress due to the adamantine wealth bonus bug. Hadn't noticed that the fortress wealth was about 160k when I showed up, so I didn't get my defenses up fast enough. An early Bugbear ambush alerted me to the fact, but before I could get my defenses ready I got hit by a two-squad ambush of Sand Raiders. The only dwarf left alive at the end was my woodcutter who'd been wounded by the bugbears. His faithful Giant Beetles drove off the attackers while he lay helpless in bed. But with no one to bring him water, he was pretty much doomed.

Ah, well. It reminded me that the bugbears needed to be fixed (they showed up with a Bright Silver Kopesh). So Bugbears are now limited to just copper, silver, and gold (metals that can be worked with low or no heat).

I also went in an rebalanced the new weapons, since I had apparently forgotten to do that.

While I was there I decided to add in some new stuff. Sand Raiders now get three new weapons - Scorpion Dagger, Scorpion Blade, and Scorpion Spear. All three are piercing weapons with very thin blades. Good at piercing armor, though not as good at actually killing people as the normal weapons are. Still, should make the Sand Raiders a bit more deadly for the late-game.

Dwarves now get Large Daggers and Light Hammers. Basically Civilian Weapons, for those of you who want your butchers, masons, and metalworkers to walk around with a suitable tool to defend themselves with. I also added in aprons, which seem like a suitably dwarven bit of clothing. Something to catch all the blood splatters, flying chunks of obsidian, and burning embers. Plus, it can be made of leather so you can give your craftsdwarves a military 'uniform' that gives some protection without seeming like actual armor.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cheddarius on July 14, 2010, 02:35:15 pm

About alchemy - I looked over the reactions but I couldn't quite understand what the goals were. What useful things does alchemy produce? Just those metal bars (glacium, incendium, elementium, mithril, etc.) for weapons?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 02:44:25 pm

Yeah. For now, Alchemy is only useful in getting your hands on the various new metals. It'll have more point in the future, but this was a good starting point.

As for why you would want to get these new metals...well, here's a rough listing of power

Levisium (near weightless)
Iron
Blood Crystal
Night Crystal
Steel
Void Crystal
Orihalcum
Glacium
Incendium/Ward Iron
Mithril
Tempestium
Elementium
Adamantine

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Dohon on July 14, 2010, 03:46:35 pm

OOoh, "civilian" weapons. And aprons! In order to have the civvies wear that, you just have to create a squad and put them on a permanent "stand down", right? This mod looks awesome. I'm gonna have my "DF 2010" cherry popped once the new version of your mod hits the market. So, take your time and make this mod a real doozie. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 04:13:38 pm

I'm quite close to being able to release, I think. I do have two more things I want to add in, though.

1) The poor wood Elves are even worse off now than they were before. So I need to give them something decent. I'm thinking a druidic circle workshop that lets them turn wood into something as strong as steel. Most elves will still probably have pine swords or whatever, but this way they'll have a chance at actually killing something.

2) Blazing Incendium still sounds fun, so I need to add an alchemical reaction to make it. It'll be player-only, though. Just something for you guys to mess with and try to come up with ingenious traps and whatnot.

Any more bugs show up for those of you testing the last set of files?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Org on July 14, 2010, 04:14:38 pm

Bloodwood.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cult of the Raven on July 14, 2010, 05:05:45 pm

I've been having a trouble:
When genning a world, 9 times out of 10 the dwarf civ dies. I wouldn't mind, except that getting migrants after the first year is nice.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 05:10:13 pm

Hmmm. What size world are you genning? Also, how long do you have the world go on? I usually keep it around 200-300 years before I start, mostly because I like to have *some* possibility of there actually being goblins, violet xelics, and the like actually living in their settlements.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 14, 2010, 07:46:26 pm

What's ward iron used for?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 08:08:42 pm

Ward Iron is one of the best armor materials in the game. My list is slightly wrong, it should be Incendium/Ward Iron. Incendium can only be used for weapons, Ward Iron for armor, and Tempestium for ammo.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ampoliros on July 14, 2010, 09:44:18 pm

yeah, few bugs/problems/suggestions:

I'm finding most of the elemental crystals to be too inconsistent their rarity. Frost crystal, like microcline, is basically everywhere, and there are *some* firehearts in granite layers, but ward and storm crystals just don't seem to exist anywhere (and i'm looking around with reveal and dfprospector on maps with lots of granite/marble). It might be worthwhile to add firehearts, ward crystals, and storm crystals to common types of non-mineral layer stones (orthoclase, olivine, alunite, verdenite, etc) instead of directly to the layer to ensure somewhat of a uniform rarity

The tannable chitin stuff was (accidentally?) removed i think in the second test set, probably because of the material_template_default changes

I have a dwarf who currently likes 'alum filled alchemical'; i don't really know if that's fixable given the workarounds necessary.

Unless it's necessary for the workings of the mod, imho i would remove the various glass-material jars and try to stick to one type...eg, a special type of generic alchemical glass, or just plain green glass, or something along those lines. I think it clutters up things like the jobs and managers screens to have all the various material reactions for all the various jar types and stuff

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 10:39:10 pm

Quote from: Ampoliros on July 14, 2010, 09:44:18 pm

yeah, few bugs/problems/suggestions:

I'm finding most of the elemental crystals to be too inconsistent their rarity. Frost crystal, like microcline, is basically everywhere, and there are *some* firehearts in granite layers, but ward and storm crystals just don't seem to exist anywhere (and i'm looking around with reveal and dfprospector on maps with lots of granite/marble). It might be worthwhile to add firehearts, ward crystals, and storm crystals to common types of non-mineral layer stones (orthoclase, olivine, alunite, verdenite, etc) instead of directly to the layer to ensure somewhat of a uniform rarity

Yeah, Frost Crystal is supposed to be a bit more common, since Glacium isn't as powerful as the others. Which others you get seems a bit random, since I know I've gotten both Ward and Storm Crystal on maps before. But bumping up the commonality might be ok. Or maybe reducing the occurrence of Frost Crystal a bit, since you're not supposed to really have much of the Elemental Metals.

Quote

The tannable chitin stuff was (accidentally?) removed i think in the second test set, probably because of the material_template_default changes

Hmmm. Thanks, I'll have to fix that.

Quote

I have a dwarf who currently likes 'alum filled alchemical'; i don't really know if that's fixable given the workarounds necessary.

Yeah, kind of annoying but there really isn't a good way around it at this point.

Quote

Unless it's necessary for the workings of the mod, imho i would remove the various glass-material jars and try to stick to one type...eg, a special type of generic alchemical glass, or just plain green glass, or something along those lines. I think it clutters up things like the jobs and managers screens to have all the various material reactions for all the various jar types and stuff

The second test set should do that. You can make Alchemical Jars from any of the glasses, but after that they're just jars.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Ampoliros on July 15, 2010, 12:36:23 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 10:39:10 pm

Yeah, Frost Crystal is supposed to be a bit more common, since Glacium isn't as powerful as the others. Which others you get seems a bit random, since I know I've gotten both Ward and Storm Crystal on maps before. But bumping up the commonality might be ok. Or maybe reducing the occurrence of Frost Crystal a bit, since you're not supposed to really have much of the Elemental Metals.

Yeah, just levelling out the rarity inline with the power somewhat was the hope; the frost crystals could definitely do with a bit of reduction, while i thought the rest could use a bit of a tweak upward.

Quote

The second test set should do that. You can make Alchemical Jars from any of the glasses, but after that they're just jars.

fantastic. I hadn't gotten a chance to test the alchemy parts in the second set out just yet, i had just merged the raws with the graphics set I use this afternoon

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Dohon on July 15, 2010, 05:04:39 pm

A question about Libraries:

A couple of replies back, you said you intended to introduce a library to the mod. A rather extensive one. Do you intend to release it in the next version?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 15, 2010, 05:51:15 pm

After the Alchemy release? Possibly. I know the next release is going to have the various Primitive Civs, but I haven't decided what's going in other than that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Cult of the Raven on July 15, 2010, 06:01:35 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 05:10:13 pm

Hmmm. What size world are you genning? Also, how long do you have the world go on? I usually keep it around 200-300 years before I start, mostly because I like to have *some* possibility of there actually being goblins, violet xelics, and the like actually living in their settlements.

I normally generate the default medium-sized regions. (that makes 1050 years of history, if I recall) I'll try to run some shorter gens though, and see if that is a major factor.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 15, 2010, 06:14:09 pm

That's probably it. Medium worlds for me always have a few Dwarven civs left after about 300 years.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.1 Ironworks released
Post by: Mephansteras on July 16, 2010, 12:59:55 pm

Currently doing some minor tweaks and testing.

Kimberlite now shows up in large clusters as well as veins, since in RL it actually shows up in giant columns. I've also added Fireheart, Storm Crystal, Flare Crystal, and Ward Crystal to Kimberlite.

Alum Shale is now a nice dark blue, like Kimberlite, so those of you who like that color have a layer stone to play with. Plus it kind of looks dark and oily, the way Alum shale should.

There is a new tree found in good lands called Silverwood. It is somewhat rare, but the wood is quite valuable and as hard as iron. It gives the poor Elves a slightly chance of surviving longer in world gen, now. And gives the dwarves more reason to clearcut joyous forests, I guess.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 16, 2010, 06:15:43 pm

Version 2.2 is out! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277)

Hopefully the number of bugs in it is minimal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 16, 2010, 06:43:44 pm

Is it incompatible with 2.1 saves?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 16, 2010, 06:48:57 pm

Very much no. You'll need to gen a new world. Especially since Tainted Dwarves went back to being Chaos Dwarves, and for cleanliness sake I renamed the file as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Cheddarius on July 16, 2010, 07:39:54 pm

Alchemy! Sweet!
I must confess that though I have looked forward to this, I have never actually played it... but hopefully I'll get a chance to soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: shibdib on July 16, 2010, 11:59:07 pm

Love the mod.. but for some reason i just cant stand the beetles.. dont see why a bug should be considered a land animal when the rest of them r considered vermin

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 17, 2010, 12:00:58 am

Umm, because it's a giant bug the size of a horse? At least in the Giant Beetles case. The others are more cat sized.

In any case it's easy to take them out. Just don't include the creature_insects_large_cf.txt file.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.2 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 18, 2010, 02:07:10 pm

2.21 is released. Just a minor bugfix. The separation jobs for Mithril and Levisium were happening in the Tempering Chamber instead of the Separation Chamber, so I fixed that.

If you don't want to re-download it, just replace the reaction_separation_cf.txt file with this.

Code: [Select]

reaction_separation_cf

[OBJECT:REACTION]

-- THis workshop is used to separate mithril and levisium from their native ores
--  something that cannot be done at a normal smelter, as it requires emen aren to do

-- There is only a 20% chance that you'll get usable mithril from truesilver
--   Test...maybe a smaller amount of mithril bars is possible? Must try it.
[REACTION:SEPARATE_TRUESILVER_GREEN]
[NAME:separate mithril from truesilver]
[BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_T]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:TRUESILVER]
[REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:20:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
[SKILL:ALCHEMY]


-- 33% chance for Levisium from Levitite
[REACTION:SEPARATE_LEVITITE_GREEN]
[NAME:separate levisium from levitite]
[BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_L]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEVITITE]
[REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:33:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:LEVISIUM][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
[SKILL:ALCHEMY]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 18, 2010, 02:13:39 pm

Sweet! Can't wait to try it out. Gonna wait a few days though. Toady is going to release a new version with updated training mechanics for the military in a few days. Then I'll load up with this puppy and have at it. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 18, 2010, 02:47:06 pm

There may be a new update for 31.11, depending on what Toady changes. We'll have to see.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 18, 2010, 03:08:53 pm

Looks really good.  Going to try it out, mixed (with some modifications here and there to taste) with SethCreiyd's Dwarf Chocolate and Flora & Fauna, and Seasonal Crops Mod, in the Ironhand tileset.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 18, 2010, 11:25:17 pm

Civilization Forge does have seasonal crops already, so that may not be needed (not sure exactly what that mod does).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: breadbocks on July 20, 2010, 01:47:10 am

Tempest crystal and ward crystal say made of fire, not air an earth in the OP. Just pointing it out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 20, 2010, 01:58:24 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 18, 2010, 11:25:17 pm

Civilization Forge does have seasonal crops already, so that may not be needed (not sure exactly what that mod does).

Actually, the seasonality of crops under the mod is a minor aspect of it compared to its main function: lengthening all GROWDURS -- most to 2016, some to 672.  That's the part that makes me happy, anyway.  :)

On another note, I converting your CF plants for use with the Ironhand graphics package for my own use.  If you'd like, I can send over the changed raws in case you'd like to have a look and consider making an Ironhand version (after tweaking them to preference). 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 20, 2010, 09:57:00 am

@breadbocks - Thanks, I fixed it!

@ChickenLips - Ah, ok. I've considered lengthening the GROWDURS, but haven't gotten around to really balancing farming too much yet. Feel free to send me the graphics. I really ought to get around to learning how all that works and maybe creating a graphics bundle for Civ Forge. Lots of people seem to want to use graphics but have issues with it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 20, 2010, 01:46:29 pm

Had a random idea this morning that I decided to implement.

I give you, the Dwarven Longarm!
This modified Crossbow fires not bolts, but specially designed throwing axes, daggers, and hammers. Watch as your enemies have limbs hacked off by flying axes! See chain shirts rendered useless as chunks of spinning metal break bones and shatter faces!

I imagine it as something like a hand catapult.

Not sure how I'm going to use it yet, but it was fun to mod in! Might create a special workshop for it or something. Make it require metal mechanisms to work. The ammo, of course, will be forged as usual.

Also added in Elven Longbows and High Elven War bows. The Longbows are more powerful than the other ranged weapons and fire larger arrows. The Warbow has blades attached to it so the High Elven archers can put up a better fight in close combat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 20, 2010, 04:22:22 pm

The wiki has been given some basic updates to reflect the new Alchemy additions.

What kind of information would you guys like to see on the wiki?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 20, 2010, 05:00:32 pm

Okay, here are the changes.  I'm totally new to all this, so I can't promise anything is optimal, but I'm going off of how he set it up in the Ironhand plant_standard.txt, and my own examination of the tileset.

Also, I could not totally suppress the editor in me, so I offered a few suggestions and corrections (often repeatedly where applicable, to make them easily locatable, preceded by ****).  Do with them as you wish.

So, first, a catalog of tile numbers in Ironhand, and a description of what they look a bit like:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

THIS IS NO LONGER ACCURATE; USE HERMANO'S RAW TILE SELECTOR TOOL FOR BEST RESULTS

5   - deciduous tree, broader
6   - deciduous tree, narrower
23  - deciduous tree, broader
147 - coniferous tree
244 - large willow tree (can double as large, bulky fluffy thing)
245 - palm tree
231 - sapling graphic -- looks like it could pass well for a variety of plants
226 - the old upside-down L, often used for weird trees
144 - cactus

160 - dead tree, but recolored can pass for some other things
248 - dead tree, possibly can pass for other things
169 - dead shrub

13  - grass/grain
18  - herb bush/shrub
28  - three little thingies, often used for dead shrub, but quite usable for
      other things

21  - coiled thread/fiber often used for herbs already
127 - bunched fiber/asparagus/stalks (looks like it's tied, so this is
      probably better for harvested stuff than the shrubs themselves)

3   - succulent large fruit or mushroom
15  - star/masterwork/turtle symbol, usable for spiky fruits, flowers, and the
      like
41  - parenthesis -- works well for banana type fruits
42  - parenthesis -- works well for banana type fruits
43  - asterisk, usable for spiky fruits, flowers, and the like

161 - bulky fruit/vegetable/tuber thing
141 - small mushroom
236 - large rock; usable as large, bulky fruit like pumpkin

152 - moss/lichen (actually just stone, but it really looks good in this usage)

156 - leeks/assorted small stalks/herbs -- or at least looks like it could
      pass for them fairly well

235 - old handcuffs, passes for a couple of fruits with stems or other odd
      shape

248 - tube (small circle not much different from default ASCII)

There is some potential in others for creative use, even the rocks and such, but these are the ones that suggest themselves right away.

On the other hand, I should note that, while it may just be me, 58 (colon) and 34 (double-quotes) don't seem to make as good plants anymore in this scheme, but they could probably still work.

Also, I'm totally new to modding DF, so I don't know if it's important, but just as a heads-up, I noticed that in most standard entries, the PICKED_TILE and color lines come early in the plant entry, while the TILE and COLOR lines for the shrubs and dead shrubs come toward the end of the entry.  I have *not* done that here, so if it's a problem, my apologies and those parts will
(obviously) needs to be cut and pasted in their appropriate spot.

Finally, note that I was not at *all* creative or careful when assigning shrub colors.  I just copied the color of the picked plant over to the shrub color, and that may make a few look strange.  You'll definitely want to go over those.

Cheers!
CL

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

plant_cf

[OBJECT:PLANT]

[PLANT:BERRIES_RASPBERRY]
   [NAME:raspberry][NAME_PLURAL:raspberries][ADJ:raspberry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:4:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:4:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen raspberry wine]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:raspberry wine]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling raspberry wine]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [SPRING]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:raspberry seed:raspberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:50]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:bumps]
   [PREFSTRING:sweet taste]

[PLANT:BERRIES_BLACK]
   [NAME:blackberry][NAME_PLURAL:blackberries][ADJ:blackberry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:1:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]

   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen blackberry cordial]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:blackberry cordial]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling blackberry cordial]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:1:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [SPRING]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:blackberry seed:blackberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:50]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:bumps]
   [PREFSTRING:tartness]

[PLANT:BERRIES_BLUE]
   [NAME:blueberry][NAME_PLURAL:blueberries][ADJ:blueberry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:1:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SWAMP_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [BIOME:MARSH_TEMPERATE_FRESHWATER]
   [VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen blueberry cordial]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:blueberry cordial]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling blueberry cordial]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [SPRING][SUMMER]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:blueberry seed:blueberry seeds:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:50]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:roundness]

[PLANT:COTTON]
   [NAME:cotton][NAME_PLURAL:cotton][ADJ:cotton]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:244][PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:13]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:3:6:0]
   [WET]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
   [VALUE:2]
   [SPRING][SUMMER]
   [FREQUENCY:50]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:THREAD:THREAD_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
      [THREAD:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:THREAD]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
   [SEED:cotton seed:cotton:6:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [PREFSTRING:fluffiness]
   [PREFSTRING:softness]

[PLANT:MUSHROOM_GLOW_CAP]
   [NAME:glow cap][NAME_PLURAL:glow caps][ADJ:glow cap]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:142][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:142]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:28]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:600][VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      The material template is just called "alcohol" so we need to give it a proper name.
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen moonglow]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:moonglow]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling moonglow]
      We also set a few more numbers to distinguish the alcohol from the template.
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:4]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [SEED:glow cap node:glow cap nodes:2:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:80]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:eerie glow]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]


   [PLANT:MOLD_SLIME]
   [NAME:slime mold][NAME_PLURAL:slime molds][ADJ:slime mold]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
    [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
    [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:152][PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:152]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:28]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:6:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:300][VALUE:1]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:slime mold spawn:slime mold spawn:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:bitter taste]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]

   [PLANT:LICHEN_WEB]
   [NAME:web lichen][NAME_PLURAL:web lichen][ADJ:web lichen]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
    [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
    [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:152][PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:152]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:28]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:800][VALUE:3]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      The material template is just called "alcohol" so we need to give it a proper name.
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen dwarven firewater]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:dwarven firewater]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling dwarven firewater]
      We also set a few more numbers to distinguish the alcohol from the template.
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [SEED:web lichen spawn:web lichen spawn:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:40]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: "intricate webs" suggests spider webs, and is already
     used in the name -- perhaps "intricate patterns"?  May be just me.

   [PREFSTRING:intricate webs]
   [DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]

[PLANT:BULB_CAVE]
   [NAME:cave bulb][NAME_PLURAL:cave bulbs][ADJ:cave bulb]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:161][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:161]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:161]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:500][VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen dwarven sherry]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:dwarven sherry]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling dwarven sherry]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cave spice]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:1]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:20]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [SEED:cave bulb node:cave bulb nodes:5:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:heady scent]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]


   [PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_DARK]
   [NAME:dark crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:dark crystal grasses][ADJ:dark crystal grass]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:13]
**** Possibly 156 instead of 13 (for this and all other grasses here)?

   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:dark crystal dye]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:DARK_VIOLET]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [POWDER_DYE:DARK_VIOLET]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: [color] crystal seeds -> [color] crystal grass seeds
    (name seems to suggest inorganic crystals, but this may just be me --
    please take it as a weak suggestion; also possibly "[color] crystalline
    seeds)"

   [SEED:dark crystal seeds:dark crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:1]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: crystal coated stalks -> crystalline stalks
     (crystal coated seems a bit off...?  weak suggestion, no strong
     impression, but it seems more plausible this way)

   [PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]

   [PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_RED]
   [NAME:crimson crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:crimson crystal grasses][ADJ:crimson crystal grass]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:4:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:13]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:4:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:crimson crystal dye]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:SCARLET]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:4:0:1]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [POWDER_DYE:SCARLET]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: [color] crystal seeds -> [color] crystal grass seeds
    (name seems to suggest inorganic crystals, but this may just be me --
    please take it as a weak suggestion; also possibly "[color] crystalline
    seeds)"

   [SEED:crimson crystal seeds:crimson crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:1]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: crystal coated stalks -> crystalline stalks
     (crystal coated seems a bit off...?  weak suggestion, no strong
     impression, but it seems more plausible this way)

   [PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]

   [PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_GREEN]

****  TYPO/SPELLING: verdent -> verdant

   [NAME:verdent crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:verdent crystal grasses][ADJ:verdent crystal grass]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:13]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]

**** TYPO/SPELLING: verdent -> verdant

   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:verdent crystal dye]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:JADE]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:2:0:1]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [POWDER_DYE:JADE]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]

**** TYPO/SPELLING: verdent -> verdant

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: [color] crystal seeds -> [color] crystal grass seeds
    (name seems to suggest inorganic crystals, but this may just be me --
    please take it as a weak suggestion; also possibly "[color] crystalline
    seeds)"

   [SEED:verdent crystal seeds:verdent crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:1]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: crystal coated stalks -> crystalline stalks
     (crystal coated seems a bit off...?  weak suggestion, no strong
     impression, but it seems more plausible this way)

   [PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]

   [PLANT:GRASS_CRYSTAL_GOLD]
   [NAME:golden crystal grass][NAME_PLURAL:golden crystal grasses][ADJ:golden crystal grass]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:13]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:6:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:500][VALUE:3]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:golden crystal dye]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:GOLD]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:1]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [POWDER_DYE:GOLD]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: [color] crystal seeds -> [color] crystal grass seeds
    (name seems to suggest inorganic crystals, but this may just be me --
    please take it as a weak suggestion; also possibly "[color] crystalline
    seeds)"

   [SEED:golden crystal seeds:golden crystal seeds:5:0:0:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:1]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: crystal coated stalks -> crystalline stalks
     (crystal coated seems a bit off...?  weak suggestion, no strong
     impression, but it seems more plausible this way)

   [PREFSTRING:crystal coated stalks]
   [WET][DRY]
   [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
   [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]


   [PLANT:CINNAMON]
   [NAME:cinnamon bush][NAME_PLURAL:cinnamon bushes][ADJ:cinnamon bush]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:6:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:4]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:cinnamon spice]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [SEED:cinnamon seed:cinnamon seeds:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
  [SPRING]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:sweet scent]
   [WET]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]

   [PLANT:BLACK_PEPPER]
   [NAME:black pepper vine][NAME_PLURAL:black pepper vines][ADJ:black pepper vine]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:21][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:169]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:0:0:1]
   [GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:4]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:black pepper spice]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:CINNAMON]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:0:0:1]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [SEED:black pepper seed:black pepper seeds:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:sweet scent]
   [WET]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]


[PLANT:BERRY_ICE]
   [NAME:rime berry][NAME_PLURAL:rime berries][ADJ:rime berry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:3:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:3:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:TUNDRA]
   [VALUE:3]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen winter wine]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:winter wine]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling winter wine]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:6]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:3:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [AUTUMN]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:rime berry seed:rime berry seeds:3:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:50]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:amazing wine]

**** SUGGESTED CHANGE: glinting -> icy glint

   [PREFSTRING:glinting]

   [PLANT:BERRY_CROW]
   [NAME:crowberry][NAME_PLURAL:crowberries][ADJ:crowberry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:1:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:1:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:TUNDRA]
   [VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen crowberry schnapps]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:crowberry schnapps]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling crowberry schnapps]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:1:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [SPRING]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:crowberry seed:crowberry seeds:7:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:75]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:needlelike leaves]

   [PLANT:BERRY_LINGON]
   [NAME:lingon berry][NAME_PLURAL:lingon berries][ADJ:lingon berry]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:5:0:0]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:5:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:1200]
   [DRY][WET]
   [BIOME:TUNDRA]
   [VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EXTRACT:PLANT_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen lingon berry syrup]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:lingon berry syrup]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling lingon berry syrup]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:20]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [EXTRACT_STORAGE:BARREL]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [EXTRACT_BARREL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:EXTRACT]
   [SUMMER]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
   [SEED:lingon seed:lingon seeds:5:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [FREQUENCY:75]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:tartness]


[PLANT:CANE_SUGAR]
   [NAME:sugar cane][NAME_PLURAL:sugar canes][ADJ:sugar cane]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:159][PICKED_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:231]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:28]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:2:0:1]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:2000][VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:DRINK:PLANT_ALCOHOL_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen rum]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:rum]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling rum]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:3]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:1]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [DRINK:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:DRINK]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:MILL:PLANT_POWDER_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:sugar]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:WHITE]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [MILL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:MILL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EXTRACT:PLANT_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen molasses]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molasses]
      [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling molasses]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:30]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:0:0]
      [EDIBLE_RAW]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
      [EXTRACT_STORAGE:BARREL]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
   [EXTRACT_BARREL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:EXTRACT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [SEED:sugar cane seed:sugar cane seeds:2:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [SPRING]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:sweet juice]
   [WET]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
  [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]


[PLANT:OIL_NUT]
   [NAME:oil nut][NAME_PLURAL:oil nuts][ADJ:oil nut]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [PICKED_TILE:161][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:1]
   [PICKED_TILE:18][PICKED_COLOR:6:0:1]
   [SHRUB_TILE:18]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:252]
   [SHRUB_COLOR:4:0:0]
   [DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GROWDUR:600][VALUE:2]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
      [MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
      [EDIBLE_VERMIN]
      [EDIBLE_COOKED]
   [SEED:oil nut seed:oil nut seeds:6:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]
   [AUTUMN]
   [FREQUENCY:100]
   [CLUSTERSIZE:5]
   [PREFSTRING:pungent oil]
   [WET][DRY]
   [GOOD]
   [BIOME:NOT_FREEZING]

[PLANT:SILVERWOOD]
   [NAME:silverwood][NAME_PLURAL:silverwood][ADJ:silverwood]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
   [BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WOOD:WOOD_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:silverwood]
      [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:silverwood]
      [STATE_COLOR:ALL_SOLID:WHITE]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
      [DISPLAY_COLOR:7:0:1]
    [IMPACT_YIELD:642500]
    [IMPACT_FRACTURE:1200000]
    [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:300]
    [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:642500]
    [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:1200000]
    [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:300]
    [TENSILE_YIELD:155000]
    [TENSILE_FRACTURE:310000]
    [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:73]
    [TORSION_YIELD:155000]
    [TORSION_FRACTURE:310000]
    [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:175]
    [SHEAR_YIELD:155000]
    [SHEAR_FRACTURE:310000]
    [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:175]
    [BENDING_YIELD:155000]
    [BENDING_FRACTURE:310000]
    [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:73]
    [MAX_EDGE:15000]
    [MATERIAL_VALUE:15]
  [FREQUENCY:50]
   [TREE:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:WOOD][TREE_TILE:23]
   [TREE_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [PICKED_COLOR:7:0:1]
   [DEAD_TREE_COLOR:7:0:0]
   [PREFSTRING:metallic sheen]
   [DRY][GOOD]
   [BIOME:NOT_FREEZING]
   [SAPLING]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:100]

And while I'm on a marthon post, I tried to get your unused SING_SILVER_WOOD reaction to work -- I imagine it's unused as of yet because it's problematic?  (I got an error when assigning it to a civ.)  Will it be fixed and included?  I like it.  :)

Finally, since I just read it, I like the idea of the elven bows a lot, but I'm not crazy about the crossbow-like thrower device.

Cheers!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: breadbocks on July 20, 2010, 05:05:40 pm

You can make metal mechanisms? Huh. Also, like the idea of throwing weapons, but can't you just make the weapons and mark them a one use or something?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on July 20, 2010, 05:09:06 pm

You can't.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 20, 2010, 05:10:09 pm

@ChickenLips: Yeah, that stuff is broken at the moment. I'll probably mess around with it again sometime soon to see if I can get it to work. It wasn't important to the rest of the 2.2 release, though, so I left it out.

I'll try playing with the graphics a bit at some point. Might not be this week, though, since I'm going to be at ComicCon for most of it.

@breadbocks: Sadly, no. If I could just give dwarves throwing weapons I'd do that, but the only people who know who to throw things in fortress mode are tantruming dwarves. I guess Toady just hasn;t gotten around to it yet. So this is sort of an odd workaround for it. Nor can I set items to be one-use or anything like that. All I can do is make it so that you have stacks of ammo to fling from a weapon. Plus, the idea of a strange catapult-like device hurling axes at people just sounds sort of dwarven to me.

Maybe I should give the humans a sling or something. Might need to play around with that idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 20, 2010, 05:41:13 pm

I'm actually working on making slings and atlatls. If I get anywhere with them, I'll post them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 20, 2010, 07:25:28 pm

Cool.

Started working on the Primitive Civs. Wolfmen and Jackalmen are working now.

Current list of Primitive Civs to add:

Wolfmen - Done
Jackalmen - Done
Raccoonmen
Ratmen
Lizardmen
Turtlemen
Goatmen
Bearmen
Tigermen
Snakemen
Crabmen
Ravenmen
Monkeymen

They will all come in a Primitive Civs folder. This makes them optional, since having EVERY civ is probably going to be unworkable. Or at least boring, since you'd have a dozen trading partners and fewer enemies around. But adding them to any given world-gen will be easy, since you just have to move their entity, creature, and language files up to the main raw/objects directory.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 21, 2010, 02:50:42 am

About time we got goatmen!  :D

Look forward to it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on July 21, 2010, 04:03:17 am

Goatmen = satyrs :P.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shintaro Fago on July 21, 2010, 04:43:47 am

Satyr (http://mitchys.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/tumnus_faun_satyr.jpg) and goatman. (http://cantodea.altervista.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/poster_cg_borderland_11x17rev2.jpg) And yes, I'm from the city.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on July 21, 2010, 05:12:16 am

I meant satyrs are pretty much goatmen. But yeah, they do not have goat heads :D.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on July 21, 2010, 05:17:12 am

Meph, your wiki link in the first post is wrong.

It should be http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Civilization_Forge.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 21, 2010, 05:34:03 am

Quote from: Deon on July 21, 2010, 04:03:17 am

Goatmen = satyrs :P.

Not really.  Satyrs are libidinous fellas with the heads and upper bodies of men, and goats' lower bodies.  Goatmen, on the other hand-- well, this could just be me, but the general idea of goatmen, as far as I understand, is akin to those Warhammer beastmen with goat or ram heads.  Satyrs are playful and mischievous, taking your daughter off into the woods.  Goatmen want your blood.

In short, one is horned, and the other is just horny.  :D

However the interpretation goes here, it is quite welcome.   :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 21, 2010, 09:41:53 am

Thanks Deon.

And, yes, these Goatmen are going to be humanoid goats, so they're a bit different from satyrs. They won't quite be the evil monsters that you find in Warhammer or Diablo, though. But I am going to give them those nasty two-handed morning stars that they used in Diablo/Diablo2. I figure Goatmen have a rather practical brutality about them when it comes to dealing with threats.

Ooh...I bet I can give them a headbutt attack!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 21, 2010, 01:24:35 pm

Ok, Goatmen are in. Headbutt attack and all. Which is pretty nasty, especially if you don't have a helm on. They killed quite a few opponents by smashing their bits of skull into brains.

Wolfmen are scarier, though, and tend to win any straight fights. Makes sense, I guess.

Also, while looking through the weapon raws I noticed that most two-handed weapons are only two-handed for dwarves, goblins, and the like. Pikes, for example, are only [TWO_HANDED:67500]. Which means that even a slightly smaller than average human should be able to use a pike one-handed.

Time to correct this. I'm switching all two-handed weapons of that sort to [TWO_HANDED:75000]. A really big human could use it one-handed, but otherwise they should be two-handed for all normal races. I've got the Skullcrackers, Bastard Swords, and War Axes for the two-handed to smaller races and one-handed to humans set.

Frost Giants still scoff at the puny normal weapons, of course.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 22, 2010, 07:04:59 am

I'm a huge fan of the Warhammer Beastmen, so I will put them in my install. :) Are all the Primitive Civs considered friendly? As in, we-will-trade-but-keep-ripping-us-off-and-we-will-rip-you-limb-from-limb?

The idea of one-handing a pike is indeed ... odd. You can't balance it in one hand and two hands are required to accurately use the weapon. But then again, Conan would probably sneer at the "puny man" and throw the entire length of it like it was just a spear.

What's a skullcracker? Huge hammer/mace?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 22, 2010, 09:30:05 am

All of the primitive civs are pretty much neutral by default, since I didn't want to make any of them baby snatchers. So you'd have to either start at war with them or tick them off to fight them. So, yeah, minor trading partners for the most part.

Yeah, the Skullcracker is basically a Dwarven maul.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on July 22, 2010, 01:42:00 pm

can't wait, loved the primitive civs in the old one, being able to go from fighting 3 guys to fighting 15 by killing all the liasons was GREAt!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 22, 2010, 03:39:58 pm

Heh, yeah, that would be fun. 15 ticked-off civs. The slaughter will be glorious. And bloody Fun. I really wanna see that Skullcracker do its gory business.  ;D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 23, 2010, 12:51:28 am

Hehe. Yeah, talk about blood everywhere! At least the primitive civs don't have too much equipment to litter the battlefield with.

Still need to run a bunch of tests with the new two-handed values, but I expect everything will work out ok.

Not too likely that I'll get anything done for the next few days though, since I'm so busy with Comic-Con.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 23, 2010, 06:47:54 am

Here's the Sling and Atl-Atl I made, in case you want to include them.


http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62199 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62199)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 23, 2010, 07:44:39 am

Take your time with the new version. We can wait. And in the meantime, it allows me to dip my feet in the 0.31 DF version. I think that going from 40d to your mod and the new version totally unprepared would make my brains melt. Or smashed to a pulp by the frost giants. Both situations result in "auwch".

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Godmouth on July 24, 2010, 04:06:42 am

Great mod, been playing it for a while. Just noticed my magma finishing forge refuses to notice magma. Tried pretty much all sides, including digging out everything except for a few tiles for it to stand (so like, 6 channeled tiles with magma underneath, in addition to some on the side for kicks). Still doesn't want to. Also, the magma jar makers workshop doesn't like being placed on channeled tiles at all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 24, 2010, 09:26:18 am

Hmm. I know I've gotten the magma Finishing Forge to work. Not sure why it's ignoring you. I'll check where I have it set up in one of my saves. I'll have to check the magma jar maker, I don't think I actually tested that one.

Also, 31.11 does have some raw changes that I haven't had time to check out too much on what they do. So I'm not sure if 2.21 is actually compatible or not.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on July 24, 2010, 01:23:08 pm

It's compatible (as far as I can tell) since that is what I'm playing right now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Scaraban on July 25, 2010, 12:22:45 am

coulb b im retarded *cough* ACT 32 *cough* but i would really appreciate sum more in-depth info on wtf goes where, just 2 b sure i dont royally fuck up sumthing

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 25, 2010, 04:33:42 am

It all goes into the raw\objects folder. Overwrite if prompted. :)

I noticed that there is a file called "CivilizationForge.README" in the download. Shouldn't it be "CivilizationForge_README.txt" or something akin to it? I haven't actually tried the mod itself though, but I'm a hoarder and I keep the latest version of mods securely in storage. In case the world ends or something. ;) And so, I noticed that it had a file with a rather odd extension.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 25, 2010, 10:10:19 am

Yeah, Dohon has the instructions correct.

Having a file just called README or with a README extension is an old convention. It makes finding README files really easy, since they have this nice blaring extension telling you that they're not just another file for the program. So I've used that convention here. It should open in any text editor just fine.

Also, I've finished looking at the file changes for 31.11 and 31.12. A few things that might matter eventually, but nothing that should break your games. I'll see about getting 2.22 up with corrected files either tonight or tomorrow, but you should be fine using Civilization Forge with the latest version of DF until then.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Scaraban on July 25, 2010, 01:23:45 pm

so don't move any entries into appropriate raws?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on July 25, 2010, 08:46:39 pm

Hi,
   If anyone wants to use Civ Forge with graphics i have put together a little pack for civforge + Undeadstag graphics + Phoebus graphics + some other mods and tweaks to get them all working nicely together.

http://www.brightsoft.net/df_31.12_civforge_graphics_pack.rar  (16Mb)

--
Dwarf Fortress 31.12 by Toady One http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/
------

• Phoebus' Graphic Set 0.31.12v00 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57557.0
• Civilization Forge Graphics Pack by Undeadstag http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1119
• Drayaths mods to civforge to use Phoebus graphics for all non-creature civ forge additions.
      - No new graphics have been added for this, but all new minerals/gems use appropiate graphics and in use groups of minerals seems to stand out from there surroundings.

• Civilization Forge 2.21 by Mephansteras http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.0
• Dwarven Higher Learning Mod by Shukaro (v2.1) http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60853.msg1377358
• Crematorium Workshop by Lazureus http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54058.msg1159978
      - Drayaths tweaks to add Magma Crematorium, normal crematorium now needs fuel, new reactions to burn fat/tallow, outputs tweaked
• Profits Stone Annihilator (2.00.000)
      - Drayaths tweaks to support civforge stone types and to add a new set of reactions to crush boulders into sand.
• Drayaths Gem Splitting Workshop
      - New mod, allow the cutting of large gems and gem crafts into a number of small gems.
      - If you have a legendary gemcutter this can result in significantly more gems as they produce more gem crafts.
        - Uses Gem Cutting skills (only affects speed)
        - Crown => 5 small gems
        - Scepter => 3-5 small gems
        - Figurine => 2-4 small gems
        - Large Gem => 1-5 small gems
        - Earring => 2 small gems
        - Amulet => 0-4 small gems
        - Ring => 1-2 small gems
        - Bracelet => 1-2 small gems

• DFHack (0.4.0.5) http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.0
• DwarfTherapist by chmod (0.5.7 + .12 config) http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39229.0
• RuneSmith by sizeak (v0.1.5 + .12 data) http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59056.0
• NoExotics by madk http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.msg1332644#msg1332644
      - THIS HAS NOT BEEN RUN. Run to train exotic animal without dungeon master.

------
Hope you enjoy
Drayath

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 25, 2010, 10:35:20 pm

Very cool, Drayath!

Would you like me to link that in the OP?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 26, 2010, 03:12:24 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 25, 2010, 10:10:19 am

Having a file just called README or with a README extension is an old convention. It makes finding README files really easy, since they have this nice blaring extension telling you that they're not just another file for the program. So I've used that convention here. It should open in any text editor just fine.

...

I'll be ... All those years of using a computer and I didn't know a .readme extension worked! Handy. Very handy indeed.

Quote from: Scaraban on July 25, 2010, 01:23:45 pm

so don't move any entries into appropriate raws?

No. You simply extract all the files from the archive to the raws\objects folder. No need to insert the entries manually into other files.
 

Quote from: drayath on July 25, 2010, 08:46:39 pm

...

Thanks for your efforts, Drayath!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Scaraban on July 26, 2010, 08:29:29 am

text in that package is very hard to read, numbers look fine but most letters have pieces of their top & bottom missing, except for sum reason the word "Evil" on search function, which appears as "Cvil" still playable but annoying

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 10:47:03 am

*sigh*

My laptop seems to be having issues and isn't booting up this morning. Which means all the work I did last night is unavailable at the moment. And, maybe forever. But I hope not.

I'll see if I can remake the patch files for 2.22 to get it synced up with 31.12 over lunch today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 26, 2010, 12:26:01 pm

Ouch, that sucks. :( Hope the laptop decides to bring itself back to life!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Cheddarius on July 26, 2010, 01:28:02 pm

Hopefully at the very least you can recover the hard drive, yes?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 03:29:52 pm

I should be able to. Most of my data is fine, anyway, since I made a full backup of the hard drive about a week ago and my DF work is generally backed up on a thumb drive. I'll just have lost the work I'd done the night before when I hadn't had a chance to copy the files over to my thumb drive. And the new fortress I'd started to test some of the primitive civs, but it wasn't even to the first autumn yet so that's not a huge loss.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: marcusbjol on July 26, 2010, 05:59:44 pm

Has the Weapon rebalance mod been updated to v.10+?  If not, it might be making weapons a little too effective.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 06:03:01 pm

Weapons should generally be fine. What behavior are you seeing that makes you say that?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: marcusbjol on July 26, 2010, 06:10:37 pm

I am seeing arrows and daggers rip off limbs.  Combat went from laughably easy pre .10 to VERY deadly after.

And I occationally have a game where I cannot make hauberks as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 06:16:36 pm

Hmm. Haven't seen that. But the core weapons are now vanilla DF, so they're as balanced as regular DF is. I can see about playing with them, though, to see if I can rebalance them a bit.

Hauberks aren't used by all Dwarf Civs. You're guaranteed at least 1 type of basic chain torso armor, but which type is random. You could just have chain vests, you could have all of the chain + scale + lamellar, although that's really rare. It's just how DF determines clothing/armor options.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 07:35:42 pm

Version 2.22 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) has been released.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: darkedone02 on July 26, 2010, 09:26:55 pm

Any new graphics compatable with this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Scaraban on July 26, 2010, 09:29:00 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 06:16:36 pm

You could just have chain vests, you could have all of the chain + scale + lamellar, although that's really rare. It's just how DF determines clothing/armor options.

I'm special... :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 26, 2010, 10:37:15 pm

None of the changes for 2.22 should effect graphics.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on July 27, 2010, 03:08:23 am

Quote from: marcusbjol on July 26, 2010, 06:10:37 pm

I am seeing arrows and daggers rip off limbs.  Combat went from laughably easy pre .10 to VERY deadly after.

And I occationally have a game where I cannot make hauberks as well.

I've seen it like that in vanilla df. It seems like everything can rip off limbs like crazy. It's a bit comical. The old version was comical in the sense that maces and stuff would send enemies flying all over (was very cool imho), but the new version is much more sadic. I had a guy in full steel get his hand ripped off in the first hit by a copper dagger or something like that. Not sure I like it too much, it just makes it so the first serious hit they land on a soldier cripples him for life, no matter the armour.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2010, 11:17:24 am

Sounds like we'll have to just wait until Toady tweaks the combat results a bit more.

In honor of 31.12 making combat work, and me being generally grumpy about my laptop going out on me, I've decided to add in Beastmen today. Nasty, foul, will-always-attack-you style beastmen based off of the Goatmen. Should be Fun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 27, 2010, 12:47:18 pm

Beastmen! Woo!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2010, 01:47:24 pm

Any opinion on the sling I made?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2010, 01:51:16 pm

Haven't had a chance to play with it yet, sorry. But I'll try to get to it soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on July 27, 2010, 05:46:18 pm

Hi,
   Spotted a small issue with the latest version:

*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/plant_cf.txt"
BERRIES_RASPBERRY: Could not locate material template PLANT_SOAP_TEMPLATE

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2010, 05:50:39 pm

Hmm, must have been left in from when I was playing around with getting Elves to make soap. I stopped working on that when I realized that merchants wouldn't bring soap anyway.

I'll have that fixed for the next version. Shouldn't break anything at the moment, I hope.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on July 27, 2010, 06:31:24 pm

Do you have any map seeds that still have most/all of the civilizations alive at year 1050.

Ideally a medium region, but I am having trouble managing for a large region at the moment. (had 10 on a large but managed to delete the seed).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2010, 06:32:29 pm

I ran into the same problem. I just edited all the entities to start with 1000 pop.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2010, 06:34:50 pm

I just start around 300, since by 1050 none of the babysnatching races ever have any of their actual race left. And 300 is long enough to get some decent empires and wars for the history.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on July 27, 2010, 06:36:54 pm

My civs were dying out by 75.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2010, 06:37:35 pm

You can also try doubling the number of Civs that get placed initially. That usually helps as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on July 27, 2010, 08:22:27 pm

I usually just place 100 civs, atleast one always survives.  Course if more then one survive, well FUN when the ambushers get around.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 28, 2010, 05:16:51 am

EDIT: Bah, I gave bum scoop.  I *thought* I saw someone mention that the "fixed potential crash in container reactions" thing meant that reactions could now check containers, but I think I misread it.  Sorry bout that...   :-\

[ . . . ] BUM SCOOP QUESTION SNIPPED [ . . . ]

(Plus, I seem to get a number of dorfs with preferenced for "oil filled alchemical" and such.)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Patchouli on July 28, 2010, 05:21:24 am

Quote from: ChickenLips on July 28, 2010, 05:16:51 am

Hey, Meph, I've seen Deon note (in another thread) that reactions can now check in containers.  Does that mean the placeholder materials (inorganic_workarounds_cf) and other such things are no longer technically necessary?  And, if so, are you coming out with a fix for that shortly?  Just asking, cuz I'm starting a new game and all, and trying to see if I should delay for another version.  :D

(Plus, I seem to get a number of dorfs with preferenced for "oil filled alchemical" and such.)

Out of curiosity, couldn't odd preferences like "oil filled alchemical" be avoided by giving it separate STATE_NAME and STATE_ADJ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on July 28, 2010, 10:09:39 am

Packaged up the new version of civforge with the Phoebus graphics pack.

http://www.brightsoft.net/df_31.12_civforge_graphics_pack_V2.rar

31.12 V2 (26/07/10)
- Removed: 3rd party tools (i.e. now just dwarf fortress + things that modify the raw and graphics files)
- Updated civforge: 2.21 => 2.22
- Updated Phoebus: 0.31.12v00 => 0.31.12v01
- Added: Drayaths Seed Brewery
- Added: Female caste names for common animals (for easier caging and breeding programs)
- Fixed: Errors from Civilization Forge Graphics Pack logged to errorlog.txt
- Fixed: Missed the higher learning mod entries from the entity_default.txt file!

Readme

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dwarf Fortress 31.12 (win-graphics)
  by
Toady One

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

------
Graphics Sets

  Phoebus Graphic Set 0.31.12v01 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57557.0]

  Civilization Forge Graphics Pack by Undeadstag [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1119]

  Drayaths mods to civforge to use Phoebus graphics for all non-creature civ forge additions.
    - No new graphics have been added for this, but all new minerals/gems use appropiate graphics and in use groups of minerals seems to stand out from there surroundings.

-------
Mods

  Civilization Forge 2.22 by Mephansteras [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.0]
 
  Dwarven Higher Learning Mod by Shukaro (v2.1) [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60853.msg1377358]
 
  Crematorium Workshop by Lazureus [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54058.msg1159978]
    - Drayaths tweaks to add Magma Crematorium, normal crematorium now needs fuel, new reactions to burn fat/tallow, outputs tweaked
 
  Profits Stone Annihilator (2.00.000)
    - Drayaths tweaks to support civforge stone types and to add a new set of reactions to crush boulders into sand.

  NoExotics by madk [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.msg1332644#msg1332644]
    - THIS HAS NOT BEEN RUN. Run to train exotic animal without dungeon master.

  Drayaths Gem Splitting Workshop [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62608.0]
    - New mod, allow the cutting of large gems and gem crafts into a number of small gems.
    - If you have a legendary gemcutter this can result in significantly more gems as they produce more gem crafts.
      - Uses Gem Cutting skills (only affects speed)
      - Crown => 5 small gems
      - Scepter => 3-5 small gems
      - Figurine => 2-4 small gems
      - Large Gem => 1-5 small gems
      - Earring => 2 small gems
      - Amulet => 0-4 small gems
      - Ring => 1-2 small gems
      - Bracelet => 1-2 small gems

  Drayaths Seed Brewery [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62433.msg1431166#msg1431166]
    - New mod, allows brewing of seeds directly to alcohol.
    - Each brew operation uses up 5 seeds of the appropiate type.
    - Once 25 seeds have been used you will get a barrel containing 25 of the appropriate alchol.
    - If a plant does not normally produce alcohol you will get sewer brew.
    - Use to safely reduce your seed stockpiles and recover bags and space (e.g. use job manager to brew 20 pig tail seed jobs will consume 100 pig tail seeds and produce 4x25 dwarven beer)
    - Support for the civforge plants.

  Domestic and some other start animals have specific names for members of the female sex. (base and civforge animals)

------

Hope you enjoy
Drayath

http://www.brightsoft.net/df_31.12_civforge_graphics_pack_V2.rar

------

31.12 V2 (26/07/10)
- Removed: 3rd party tools (i.e. now just dwarf fortress + things that modify the raw and graphics files)
- Updated civforge: 2.21 => 2.22
- Updated Phoebus: 0.31.12v00 => 0.31.12v01
- Added: Drayaths Seed Brewery
- Added: Female caste names for common animals  (for easier caging and breeding programs)
- Fixed: Errors from Civilization Forge Graphics Pack logged to errorlog.txt
- Fixed: Missed the higher learning mod entries from the entity_default.txt file!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 28, 2010, 10:10:09 am

Hmm, hadn't heard that Toady had fixed that. I'll have to check it out.

Sadly, my laptop is officially dead at this point. So my development speed is going to be reduced a bit as I get my desktop back in proper modding order.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 28, 2010, 05:46:29 pm

Dwarves can now menace with spikes. I've added in a punch dagger called a Fist Spike for dwarves that used the striking skill. It's a decent enough weapon with good armor penetration ability. Plus, it's good for those rookie dwarves who have general fighting/wrestling experience but no real weapon skill.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: majikero on July 29, 2010, 10:07:23 am

Can I ask a question? What how strong is mithril as a weapon and armor? I have truesilver every where. In my work shops, forge, magma chambers, bedrooms even the main stairs. I wanna know before use them for my future army.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 10:36:43 am

Mithril is one of the best metals in the game. I wouldn't bother making maces or hammers out of it, since it's pretty light, but for everything else you'd need to get Elementium or Adamantine to do better.

Bright Silver (which you get by merely smelting truesilver) is only slightly better than Iron, so only smelt the truesilver if you really need metal for your army. Otherwise you're better off making Emen Aren and separating out the mithril.

In modding news I discovered what's wrong with the Magma Jarmaker's shop and the Magma Tempering Chamber. They're missing the [NEEDS_MAGMA] tag that actually makes them magma workshops. *sigh* So that fix will be in the next version. Easy enough to add in yourself, though, to fix your current forts.

I also learned that the Longarm, since it's a crossbow type weapon, seems to confuse the dwarves. They keep sticking the wrong type of ammo in their quivers. Very annoying. The only workaround for it right now is to make it so my squad only used longarms or crossbows, not both, since then I can specify the correct ammo for the squad. I'll have to play with it some more to see if I can fix that. I like the Longarm, having hammers flying around smacking people is fun, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle if I can't get them to carry the right ammo.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 12:45:06 pm

Other news:

I've created the 'filler stone' file that will reduce the richness of sites. It basically adds in a bunch of clusters of the layer stone. You'll get messages about striking granite and whatnot, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

It'll be in a folder of Optional Stuff in the download, so those of you who want to use it will have to specifically copy/move it out.

I'll also be releasing a stand-alone version for normal Dwarf Fortress. Note that this version will NOT work right for Civilization Forge, so you'll need to use the _cf specific version.

--

Got a Wolfman diplomat this morning, but no merchants. Since I didn't tell the primitive civs to have merchants yet, this is a good sign. It means that I can have truly neutral races who only interact with you if you're at war with them.

Would people like me to move the Hobgobilns, Dyansauri, and Frost Giants over to the neutral status? They're technically EVIL races, so they probably shouldn't be trading with you. On the other hand, having Frost Giant merchant guards rampaging through ambush parties is a lot of fun....

New Poll time, I guess.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: majikero on July 29, 2010, 02:32:34 pm

trying to get mithril but seperation chamber says no materials/fuel? How do you use it? My hope is riding on it working or the dwarven caravan comes with the ward iron. I already have everything. All the native silver is making me rich enough to attack

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 02:38:17 pm

Should just require one boulder of Truesilver and one Jar of Emen Aren. You'll get Mithril bars about 20% of the time, and silver bars 100% of the time.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: majikero on July 29, 2010, 02:56:00 pm

I have several veins worth of true silver and bins worth of emen aren

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 02:58:32 pm

Hmm...it should work just fine.

Oh! What version are you on? There was a bug with one of them where the separation reactions were happening in the Tempering Chamber, not the Separation Chamber. Try there.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 29, 2010, 03:46:48 pm

Hey, Meph, I ended up cutting some modding teeth working on an expansion of your hobgoblin entity file for a friend who wanted to play, in essence, Hobgoblin Fortress.

It gives them a full slate of thematic nobles (including a couple of twists like making EXECUTIONER also MORALE_BUILDER), and assigns all allowable techs to them (at least in its current stage).  I was sorta wondering if it's worthwhile at all for anyone else, and curious to know if you'd like to take a look at it and implement anything from it.  No worries if not, but if you'd like to see it, lemme know.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 03:54:38 pm

No harm in releasing it. I think I did some stuff with the Hobgoblin culture already, but I haven't fleshed them out too much at this point.

Flavor-wise, they're sort of Anti-High Elves and vaugely Eastern in culture. Sort of the epitome of the evil-but-honorable Chinese Warlord/Japanese Shogun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 29, 2010, 04:02:33 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 03:54:38 pm

No harm in releasing it. I think I did some stuff with the Hobgoblin culture already, but I haven't fleshed them out too much at this point.

'K.  I suppose I can either throw the code up in a thread, or put it up on DFFD.

Quote

Flavor-wise, they're sort of Anti-High Elves and vaugely Eastern in culture. Sort of the epitome of the evil-but-honorable Chinese Warlord/Japanese Shogun.

Yep, that's sort of my take on it, though my friend preferred the Japanese elements be toned down, so the flavor as I've got it is more about Mongol-ish advanced tribal structure than a more settled feudalistic structure (i.e., more the Chinese Warlord theme than the Japanese Shogun theme).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 07:04:45 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 29, 2010, 12:45:06 pm

I've created the 'filler stone' file that will reduce the richness of sites. It basically adds in a bunch of clusters of the layer stone. You'll get messages about striking granite and whatnot, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

It'll be in a folder of Optional Stuff in the download, so those of you who want to use it will have to specifically copy/move it out.

I'll also be releasing a stand-alone version for normal Dwarf Fortress. Note that this version will NOT work right for Civilization Forge, so you'll need to use the _cf specific version.

Quick note on this. While it does in fact reduce the overall mineral wealth of an area, it doesn't necessarily reduce the mineral wealth on any given z-level. Due to how dwarf fortress calculates things you may still have z-levels chock full of ores and gems and whatnot. It just means that you should also have levels where it's mostly the layer stone and nothing else.

Not ideal, maybe, but good for time when you want levels to build on and levels to mine out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on July 30, 2010, 01:32:14 am

I personally got used to ignoring of the stuff like ore everywhere, but it's a nice solution. Not as good as some worldgen tweak for mineral richness (it would be awesome) but still it's okay and it works. Nice :).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 30, 2010, 10:32:35 am

A while back, you spoke of adding Aprons and "civilian weapons" (long knives for example) to your mod. Are those in already? The idea of "arming" my smiths with aprons and some kind of small weapon makes me salivate.

*Dohon engages Lurk-mode: figuring out Military Screen*

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 30, 2010, 10:47:08 am

They are in the current version, though not all dwarven civs will have aprons. They're common, but that doesn't guarantee anything. Right now the only dwarven civilian weapons are light hammers and hand axes, since I seem to have forgotten to add large daggers to the dwarven weapon list. That'll be fixed for the next version, and you can add that line in pretty easily to entity_default in the meantime.

Just add [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE] in the dwarven weapon list. You'll have to gen a new world to see it, though.

Still playing around with the new primitive civs and the longarm. I've changed it to use the throwing skill and made it a one-handed weapon. It also fires with less force than a crossbow, so it shouldn't be more powerful anymore. I'm testing a dwarf in my current fort who uses thrown weapons in one hand and a melee weapon in the other. We'll see how that goes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on July 30, 2010, 12:02:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 30, 2010, 10:47:08 am

Still playing around with the new primitive civs and the longarm. I've changed it to use the throwing skill and made it a one-handed weapon. It also fires with less force than a crossbow, so it shouldn't be more powerful anymore. I'm testing a dwarf in my current fort who uses thrown weapons in one hand and a melee weapon in the other. We'll see how that goes.

EPIC!!!!  Also I think that the evil civs shouldn't trade, something about frost giants actually wanting helms made for dwarves seems so wrong to me.  Also due to the fact that dwavres use ranged weapons and they believe them wimpy, along  with traps.  Hob-goblins I wholly disagree with, shouldn't they carry over the hate of dwarves from their goblin cousins.  Dyansaur, well IDK about them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 30, 2010, 12:22:50 pm

Thanks for the reply, Mephansteras. And I agree with kilakan. Frost Giants trading with little "runts", who above that throw sticks at their foes, is something most of those giants would find odd. Just like the Dynasauri. Hobgoblins are the cruel, stronger but honorable versions of Goblins, no? Since Goblins don't trade, why should their bigger, badder cousins? :)

But in the end, it is your mod. :) You have the last say. As long as you don't turn the game into a "peace and love" kinda thing, everything is cool by me.  ;D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 30, 2010, 12:32:31 pm

Ideally it would be based on general politics and economics. The Frost Giants would generally look down on the dwarves and the dwarves would find some of the Giant's habits distasteful. But they may get together to trade occasionally, since the Giants would want dwarven metals and gems and the dwarves would want some of the tundra items (like Winter Wine) or animals. War Mammoths, anyone? But most of the time the Giants would ignore the dwarves or raid them for their goods instead of trade. Dwarves in hot climates should never see a Frost Giant (although there will be other types around eventually).

The Hobgoblins might trade occasionally, but should generally prefer to simply conquer the dwarves. Depending on the political landscape I could see the two even having an uneasy alliance, though, since Hobgoblins at least can be trusted more than the other evil races.

The Dyansauri are savage and brutal. They might trade with the dwarves if they're busy fighting some of the other races, but would generally prefer to raid for what they need. In this case I think the dwarves would be the ones refusing trade, since the Dyansauri aren't too trustworthy and have a habit of eating people.

For now, though, I may just stick them in a folder and give them two entity files for you to pick from. One that's neutral and one that trades. It's a bit more maintenance work in the long term, but the flexibility might be worth it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.21 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 30, 2010, 07:03:28 pm

Current list of Primitive Civs to add:

Wolfmen - Done
Jackalmen - Done
Raccoonmen - Done
Ratmen
Lizardmen - Done
Turtlemen - Done
Goatmen - Done
Bearmen - Done
Tigermen - Done
Snakemen - Done
Crabmen
Ravenmen
Monkeymen

Things are progressing nicely. Snakemen are pretty frightening, copper weapons notwithstanding. They tend to have large territories. The downside to this is that the Sand Raiders tend to snatch a bunch of them. Then you get the Sand Raiders mostly composed of iron-clad snakemen. Scary.

Not as scary as the one map I let gen to 2000, though. It was mostly 2 Sand Raider empires made up of Frost Giants, a Frost Giant Civ, and one lonely Dwarven Civ who I guess was just ignored. Seriously, one of the Sand Raider empires was composed of over 4000 Frost Giants! It's no wonder they smashed everyone else.

Well, there were a few scattered civs out on islands, but I guess they were just lucky.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: ChickenLips on July 30, 2010, 07:28:33 pm

Yikes.  Looking forward to the new variants.

By the way, I just checked out your alchemical and metallurgical modwork close-up, and I just wanted to say, very, very nice work.  Rigorous, creative in naming schemes, interesting.  I really appreciate the care, attention to detail and intricacy of it.  Even the workarounds, like the transport tubes, are done with style.  I can't wait to get the time to actually play it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Organum on July 31, 2010, 12:07:10 am

Hey, Mephansteras. I think I genned a world that used Kobold as it's native tongue. It's called Uturycysefathubupythyhÿp.

?:|

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

^That is a man with a ducktail. He cannot believe what he is seeing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 31, 2010, 12:20:45 am

Huh. Never seen that before.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Organum on July 31, 2010, 12:56:56 am

Yeah. I'm not sure what's up with that, but it's pretty humorous.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on July 31, 2010, 03:39:08 am

Heh, flexibility is always nice. A pain to update though. If you are willing to go through with it, my hats off to you, good sir! Also thanks for the write-up about the evil races.

Sand Raiders ARE scary! I knew Snatchers were a pain in the backside, but having those little buggers bring up Frost Giants and armoured Snakemen ... I sense much Dwarf Slaughter. Which is Fun, ofcourse.

Oh, about the Beastmen: They are based off the Goatmen civ, but what weapons will they have? Just natural weapons? Or some copper?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 31, 2010, 11:45:34 am

The Beastmen use Wrought Iron, and are armed generally with two-handed weapons. They also wear armor. Mostly scale, I think.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on August 01, 2010, 03:51:29 am

Nasty. Fully-armoured, human-sized freaks, running full tilt at you with a wicked blade. No wonder you'd need alcohol to get through the day. ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: majikero on August 02, 2010, 04:50:28 am

There's a problem with the iron works mod that doesn't let you smelt on the magma versions. I poked around and fixed it myself though. Now my dwarfs are armed with crubicle steel

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 02, 2010, 09:53:19 am

Which version are you using? Last time I tested everything all of the magma ironworks worked fine...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 02, 2010, 07:26:36 pm

No real news on the modding front. Still testing out a bunch of stuff and I have a few more primitive civs to add. Having *all* of them on a world is definitely a bit much since it crowds the "civs on embark" screen if you have more then 20 or so on the list. And having that many trading partners would get crazy. So you'll probably want to limit how many you use on any given world.

Looking forward, I have a few options for what to do next.

I could do a major materials mod and add in fur, wool, feathers, quills, paper/vellum, ink, and libraries. Might also figure out what I want to do about the Stone Guardians that were in CF 1.x

Or I could see about adding in a bunch of the expanded civs on my list. Dark Elves, Tainted Men, Hill Dwarves, the various other Giants, and so on.

Preferences?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 02, 2010, 08:45:51 pm

I'd prefer the new giants, then the materials.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Dohon on August 03, 2010, 05:18:38 am

I prefer the materials first, then the new races. We already have a few new critters to smash thanks to the primitive civs. :) And I'm quite psyched about libraries myself.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on August 03, 2010, 10:49:21 am

I decided to give this mod a try (really like genesis, but thought more alchemy could be badass). However I'm having serious issues trying to get civilizations to survive in a medium region? Anyone have any advice besides just cut down the simulation time? With so much stuff it seems awfully hard to balance.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 03, 2010, 12:23:11 pm

Quote from: bobbens on August 03, 2010, 10:49:21 am

I decided to give this mod a try (really like genesis, but thought more alchemy could be badass). However I'm having serious issues trying to get civilizations to survive in a medium region? Anyone have any advice besides just cut down the simulation time? With so much stuff it seems awfully hard to balance.

increase the number of civs to be seeded to 50, I always have them all with that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 12:56:26 pm

Magma Ironworks aren't working for me either, I just downloaded this last night.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 01:09:33 pm

Is this the Ironworks stand-alone mod or the ironworks that comes with Civilization Forge?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 01:22:33 pm

It was from the link you have in the first post, so the whole thing I guess.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 01:25:22 pm

Hmm. Strange. My last fort used all of the various Magma buildings just fine.

Can you upload a save for me to check out?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 02:07:08 pm

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2891

I haven't used the file depot before, but I think I got it right.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 02:09:44 pm

Cool. I'll take a look at it tonight.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 03, 2010, 03:33:07 pm

if you build any custom buildings before saving/quitting atleast once, they all break... forever.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 03, 2010, 04:58:29 pm

Here is a diagram showing how the alchemy reactions link together if it helps anyone use alchemy.

http://www.brightsoft.net/AlchemyGraph.png

Key:
Boxes = mineable items
Triangle = bars
Dotted boxes = plants/trees
Ovals = alchemy materials
Dotted Ovals = alternative ways to make something.

If you want to recreate or tweak the diagram here is the data to create the graph using the free GraphViz program.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

digraph G {
   ratio=compress;
   size=16;
   
   // minable
   Cinnabar [shape=box];
   Cobaltite [shape=box];
   Stibnite [shape=box];
   Melanerite [shape=box];
   Chalcanthite [shape=box];
   Bauxite [shape=box];
   Alunite [shape=box];
   "Alum Slate" [shape=box];
   "Rock Salt" [shape=box];
   Talc [shape=box];
   Olivine [shape=box];
   Dolomite [shape=box];
   "Frost Crystal" [shape=box];
   Fireheart [shape=box];
   "Storm Crystal" [shape=box];
   "Ward Crystal" [shape=box];
   "Flare Crystal" [shape=box];
   Saltpeter [shape=box];
   Truesilver [shape=box];
   Levitite [shape=box];
   
   // bars
   "Crystal Glass" [shape=triangle];
   Mithril [shape=triangle];
   Levisium [shape=triangle];   
   Gold [shape=triangle];
   Platinum [shape=triangle];
   Tin [shape=triangle];
   Silver [shape=triangle];
   Copper [shape=triangle];
   Iron [shape=triangle];
   Glacium [shape=triangle];
   Incendium [shape=triangle];
   Tempestium [shape=triangle];
   "Ward Iron" [shape=triangle];
   Elementium [shape=triangle];
   "Blazing Incendium" [shape=triangle];
   "Bright Silver" [shape=triangle];
   "Royal Bronze" [shape=triangle];
   "Verdant Bronze" [shape=triangle];
   "Green Copper" [shape=triangle];
   Orihalcum [shape=triangle];
   "Tempered Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Night Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Blood Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Void Crystal" [shape=triangle];   
   
   // Plant
   "Oil Nut" [shape=box, style=dotted];
   "Tunnel Tube" [shape=box, style=dotted];
   
   // Structal
   Oil1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Oil2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum3 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Emen Aren1" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Emen Aren2" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid1" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid2" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid3" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Vitriol1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Vitriol2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];

   Potash -> Saltpeter;
   
   Fuel  -> Quicksilver;
   Cinnabar -> Quicksilver;
   
   Oil -> "Midnight Elixir" [weight=5];
   Cobaltite -> "Midnight Elixir";
   
   Fuel -> Antimony;
   Stibnite -> Antimony [weight=5];
   
   Fuel -> "Green Vitriol";
   Melanerite -> "Green Vitriol";
   
   Fuel -> Vitriol1;
   "Green Vitriol" -> Vitriol1;
   
   Fuel -> Vitriol2;
   Alum -> Vitriol2;
   
   Vitriol1 -> Vitriol;
   Vitriol2 -> Vitriol;
   
   Chalcanthite -> "Blue Vitriol";
   
   Potash -> Alum1;
   "Alum Slate" -> Alum1;
   
   Potash -> Alum2;
   Bauxite -> Alum2;
   
   Potash -> Alum3;
   Alunite -> Alum3;
   
   Alum1 -> Alum;
   Alum2 -> Alum;
   Alum3 -> Alum;
   
   "Green Vitriol" -> "Emen Aren1" [weight=5];
   Saltpeter -> "Emen Aren1";
   
   "Blue Vitriol" -> "Emen Aren2" [weight=2];
   Saltpeter -> "Emen Aren2";
   Alum -> "Emen Aren2";
   
   "Emen Aren1" -> "Emen Aren";
   "Emen Aren2" -> "Emen Aren";
   
   "Rock Salt" -> Salt;

   Vitriol -> "Nabid Ubal";
   Salt -> "Nabid Ubal";
   
   "Nabid Ubal" -> "Relon Aren";
   "Emen Aren" -> "Relon Aren";
   
   Talc -> "Ikal Nabid1";
   Olivine -> "Ikal Nabid2";   
   Dolomite -> "Ikal Nabid3";
   
   "Ikal Nabid1" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   "Ikal Nabid2" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   "Ikal Nabid3" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Frost Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Frost Crystal "-> "Frost Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Fire Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Fireheart" -> "Fire Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Storm Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Storm Crystal" -> "Storm Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Ward Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Ward Crystal" -> "Ward Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Pure Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Frost Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   Fireheart -> "Pure Elixir"
   "Storm Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   "Ward Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Blaze Elixir" [weight=5];
   Fireheart -> "Blaze Elixir";
   "Flare Crystal" -> "Blaze Elixir";
   
   "Frost Elixir" -> Glacium;
   Iron -> Glacium;
   
   "Fire Elixir" -> Incendium;
   Iron -> Incendium;
   
   "Storm Elixir" -> Tempestium;
   Iron -> Tempestium;
   
   "Ward Elixir" -> "Ward Iron";
   Iron -> "Ward Iron";
   
   "Pure Elixir" -> Elementium;
   Iron -> Elementium;
   
   "Blaze Elixir" -> "Blazing Incendium";
   Iron -> "Blazing Incendium";

   "Oil Nut" -> Oil1;
   
   "Tunnel Tube" -> Oil2;
   
   Oil1 -> Oil;
   Oil2 -> Oil;
   
   Truesilver -> Mithril;
   "Emen Aren" -> Mithril;
   
   Levitite -> Levisium;
   "Emen Aren" -> Levisium;
   
   Mithril -> "Bright Silver";
   Silver -> "Bright Silver" [weight=4];
   
   Mithril -> "Royal Bronze";
   Tin -> "Royal Bronze";
   Copper -> "Royal Bronze" [weight=4];
   
   Levisium -> "Verdant Bronze";
   Tin -> "Verdant Bronze";
   Copper -> "Verdant Bronze" [weight=4];
   
   Levisium -> "Green Copper";
   Copper -> "Green Copper" [weight=3];
   
   Mithril -> Orihalcum;
   Gold -> Orihalcum;
   Platinum -> Orihalcum;
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Tempered Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Tempered Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Night Crystal";
   "Midnight Elixir" -> "Night Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Blood Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Blood Crystal";
   "Quicksilver" -> "Blood Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Quicksilver" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Midnight Elixir" -> "Void Crystal";
   Antimony -> "Void Crystal";   
};

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 05:14:12 pm

Very cool!

Speaking of Alchemy, I'm thinking of adding in another plant to get oil from. Night Crystal is a bit too hard to get early on right now, and considering that it isn't as good as steel that doesn't seem right.

Has anyone done much with Night Crystal yet? What about Blood Crystal? That, at least, is pretty easy to do.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 06:47:44 pm

Alchemy is so dizzyingly complicated I'm ignoring it for a while until I can get everything else in place in the fort. Mostly they are inferior to steel, but incendium and elementium look like awesomesauce.

Then I get to experiment!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 06:49:34 pm

Void Crystal, Mithril, Orihalcum, and all of the Elemental metals are better than Steel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 03, 2010, 06:57:31 pm

I trade for bars of elemental metals/crystal bars that I want, I don't bother taking the time to figure alchemy out (though I may eventually, I'm not saying remove it.)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 07:03:58 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 03, 2010, 06:49:34 pm

Void Crystal, Mithril, Orihalcum, and all of the Elemental metals are better than Steel.

More to discover then!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 03, 2010, 07:37:53 pm

Not actually used any alchemy yet, the diagram was my attempt to see want i needed to do.

From brief looks with dfreveal i have seen lots of frost crystals and a few flare crystals but very few of any other type (though if may just have been my maps) and a few of the other minerals seem to be both rare and found in very small clusters. I've also seen almost no rock salt on the couple of maps i have played properly, which prevents all the special weapon materials, a few extra reactions to produce intermediate reagents from trace elements in common stones may make alchemy a bit easy to use in practice (even if trace reaction only produce 5% of output so need 20 boulders & possibly 20 fuel)

Part of the imbalance i think is because the amount of special metals/crystal weapons and armour i have collected from ambushers in the second year of my fort if more than i could get from completely mining out multiple levels of the map.

As a final not i like the couple of evil races coming to trade, after all our loyal dwarfs (i.e. the ones not swimming in magma!) don't care who if bringing them stuff. And the get a ringside seat when foxes, hobgolbins? and elfs send caravans at the same time; the elves avoid the depot safely until an ambush happens, which is chased by the evil guard brings them too close to the elven caravan, which gets accidental slaughtered by the evil guards. Diplomatic chaos thus endues.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 10:49:09 am

Quote from: Prepaid Lenin on August 03, 2010, 02:07:08 pm

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2891

I haven't used the file depot before, but I think I got it right.

Ok, found the problem. Somehow the new reactions files didn't make it into whichever version you're on, but the new entity files did. Which means that none of the Magma buildings actually have any reactions assigned to them that your civ can use.

I'll check out what's in 2.22 to see if it's correct. If you're not on 2.22, you should grab that one.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 11:52:37 am

Ok, looks like it was a problem with the files in 2.22. I'll get 2.23 up as a patch sometime today.

It'll probably include some of the misc. changes that I've been working on for 2.3, but it won't have any of the new civs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 03:50:56 pm

Version 2.23 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is up!

Note: Seems this will *NOT* patch old saves properly. So you'll either have to hack in the fixes or gen a new world.

To fix the broken magma workshops, simply add in the magma building to the normal reactions.

For example:

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:STEEL_MAKING_PATTERNWELD]
[NAME:make pattern welded steel bars]
[BUILDING:FORGE_FINISHING:'s']
[BUILDING:FORGE_FINISHING_MAGMA:'s']
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[REAGENT:B:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:PIG_IRON]
[REAGENT:C:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
[PRODUCT:100:2:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:STEEL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:SMELT]
Adding in the [BUILDING:FORGE_FINISHING_MAGMA:'s'] line to this reaction should allow your civ to properly use the magma finishing forge to make pattern-welded steel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on August 04, 2010, 04:56:44 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 03:50:56 pm

Version 2.23 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is up!

Note: You can install 2.23 over your existing 2.2x version. You won't see the new stuff unless you gen a new world, but it'll fix the issues with the broken workshops without harming anything.

Cool, was just starting to run into the magma issues as I had just gotten magma running at my fort. Let's hope it fixes all the issues. The mod is looking pretty great overall, just the alchemy is still a bit too complex, I haven't even bothered with metals yet, sort of scared. Locked up between sieges on the surface and forgotten beasts in the depths.

EDIT: It doesn't run: missing plant gloss: ROOT_SOAP. I'll see if I can hack fix it.

EDIT2: Blargh, also missing reaction definitions. So this definitely doesn't upgrade older saves well. Luckily I kept a backup.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 06:14:06 pm

Well, rats. Sorry about that. I'll edit my other post to note that it's not compatible with other saves.

In other news, here is a Test File (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2898) for Civilization Forge 2.3 for those who want to play with it. It should be stable, but as always I can't promise anything.

This includes all of the primitive civs, the beastmen, and the longarm.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on August 05, 2010, 02:42:28 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 04, 2010, 06:14:06 pm

Well, rats. Sorry about that. I'll edit my other post to note that it's not compatible with other saves.

In other news, here is a Test File (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2898) for Civilization Forge 2.3 for those who want to play with it. It should be stable, but as always I can't promise anything.

This includes all of the primitive civs, the beastmen, and the longarm.

To fix the magma reactions what files would I have to copy over?

EDIT: Been messing around and can't seem to get any of the magma stuff working with an old save... Anyone have luck with that?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2010, 07:48:37 am

You should just need to make the modifications I mentioned a few posts up in the reaction_ironworks file. Don't *copy* the file over, just add the line for the magma workshop buildings to the regular reactions.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on August 05, 2010, 08:40:30 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 05, 2010, 07:48:37 am

You should just need to make the modifications I mentioned a few posts up in the reaction_ironworks file. Don't *copy* the file over, just add the line for the magma workshop buildings to the regular reactions.

Yeah, I haven't been able to get that to work. It's pretty strange. However all the magma stuff from civ forge doesn't show anything at all. It just says the "lacks fuel or accessible raw" stuff. Everywhere I've read seems to indicate there is no need to regen world, however I am not seeing that.

EDIT: After testing with the harden iron, it seems to dislike the need for iron bars. Without them it works fine... It's a bit strange.

EDIT2: Hilarious, it seems like there's a bug where workshops _ONLY_ search for reagents in the current burrow... Funky. I'll see if it's been reported.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 05, 2010, 08:15:24 pm

that's not a bug, it's made that way to cause you to be able to select specific stockpiles for use/item upgrading.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 05, 2010, 10:03:25 pm

So magma workshops are still not working in this version of the mod. Does that workaround on the last page still apply? I saw that line in the reactions file.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2010, 11:42:54 pm

I'm not sure what the current situation is. It sounds like bobbens may have been having an issue caused by burrows.

Can anyone confirm if they've gotten them to work for older saves? How about new worlds? Those should work just fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: bobbens on August 06, 2010, 02:59:22 am

Quote from: kilakan on August 05, 2010, 08:15:24 pm

that's not a bug, it's made that way to cause you to be able to select specific stockpiles for use/item upgrading.

It is a bug. It only affects actually setting the task iirc. So if you have queued it already and change the burrow, they won't cancel. This also happens without actually assigning civilians nor restricting them to the burrow, it just happened that my stockpile was new and I hadn't added it yet.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Jiri Petru on August 06, 2010, 05:47:57 am

Meph, I'm trying to make the goblins friendly. I've removed the SNATCHER tag but no matter what I do, they always show up as "NO TRADE" on the embark screen. Could you please advise me how to enable goblins caravans? I'd like to play as the evil side.  8)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 06, 2010, 08:24:47 am

The Alchemy workshops aren't working either. I designated a burrow with all the needed reagents in it and it still doesn't work. :(

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Knight Otu on August 06, 2010, 08:33:13 am

Quote from: Jiri Petru on August 06, 2010, 05:47:57 am

Meph, I'm trying to make the goblins friendly. I've removed the SNATCHER tag but no matter what I do, they always show up as "NO TRADE" on the embark screen. Could you please advise me how to enable goblins caravans? I'd like to play as the evil side.  8)

Goblins lack any sort of trade animal, so they can't trade. If you add, for example, the following creature, they should be able to trade.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:KO_DF_GOBLIN_SLAVE_BEAST]
[DESCRIPTION:A large and humanoid monster found in the deeps, often used by goblins for labor.]
[NAME:smangesk†bu:smangesk†bus:smangesk†bu]
[CASTE_NAME:smangesk†bu:smangesk†bus:smangesk†bu]
[CREATURE_TILE:'s'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:2]
[LARGE_ROAMING][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2][FREQUENCY:25]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:3]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[LARGE_PREDATOR][MEANDERER]
[CAN_LEARN][SLOW_LEARNER]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BONECARN]
[PET]
[PETVALUE:250]
[PACK_ANIMAL][WAGON_PULLER]
[TRADE_CAPACITY:2000]
[PREFSTRING:strength]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH:FACIAL_FEATURES:TEETH:RIBCAGE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:EYEBROW:EYEBROW_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW:ABOVE:BY_CATEGORY:EYE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:EYELASH:EYELASH_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:EYELID:EYELASH:FRONT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL:FRONT]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL:FRONT]
[SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
[PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
[TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
[TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
[HAS_NERVES]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:15000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:168:75000]
[BODY_SIZE:20:0:225000]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:75:95:98:100:102:105:125]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:CLOSE_SET:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DEEP_SET:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:ROUND_VS_NARROW:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LARGE_IRIS:25:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:LIP]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:THICKNESS:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:lips:PLURAL]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EAR]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:SPLAYED_OUT:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HANGING_LOBES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:ears:PLURAL]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:GAPS:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:teeth:PLURAL]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_CHEEKBONES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROAD_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:JUTTING_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:SQUARE_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:NECK]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DEEP_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:RASPY_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
[BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
[MAXAGE:20:30]
[CHILD:2][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
[ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
[EQUIPS]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:SPOTS_WHITE_BLACK:1:SPOTS_BLACK_WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:RED:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 06, 2010, 08:39:12 am

I managed to get the ironworks working. I copied the ironworks reaction file over from the Genesis mod. There is probably a typo in the current version of the file.

Alchemy sill doesn't work. I'm going to look at differences between the two files and see if I can see what's up.

Edit: It looks like the current ironworks folder just doesn't have the magma reactions in it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2010, 10:11:10 am

Yeah, those got consolidated in. Having both buildings set for the same reaction DOES work. I just confirmed it by adding in the magma crucible to the main crucible steel reaction in the bugged save that was uploaded. Plus everything works fine in my games.

So I guess older saves just need to have the Magma reactions in place because the game expects them. They shouldn't actually be necessary for a new world.

I'll try genning a new world with a fresh install of 2.23, though, just to make sure.

@Jiri: Knight Otu is right, the goblins just lack a pack animal to actually trade with. His example beast should work just fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 06, 2010, 11:48:59 am

Any idea what the hangup is on the alchemy workshops for me then? I bought a truckload of elixers from the caravan and can't use them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2010, 11:50:46 am

Oh! That's easy! You need to transfer them from the transport tubes to jars at the Alchemist's Workbench.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 06, 2010, 12:22:49 pm

Yeah this might be my ignorance about glass making in general causing me to think that the alchemy is broken. I'm a metallurgical dwarf, not a ponce glassmaker damn it!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2010, 12:35:04 pm

Hehe.

Yeah, you'll need to make Alchemical Jars at the Jarmaker's shop. Then you can transfer the alchemy items from their transport tubes (bar form) to the Jars for use. You need the Alchemy Workbench, not Laboratory, for this.

Once they've been transferred over they should be usable in the various Chambers and at the Laboratory.

However, I did discover a problem. 31.12 has a bug where glass vials don't get created properly, and the Dwarven civ seems to lack the ability to make Crystal Vials at the workaround Crystal furnace. I'll have to fix that, otherwise it'll be very difficult for people to create Alchemy Laboratories in the first place!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2010, 05:08:50 pm

Currently working on getting the last Primitive Civ done (Crabmen). Everything is pretty much set, otherwise. I just need to make sure everyone works properly in-game. Especially the Beastmen, since I want to confirm that they'll siege pretty early on.

Those of you who've downloaded the test files, do you have anything to report?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Jiri Petru on August 06, 2010, 07:03:36 pm

Quote from: Knight Otu on August 06, 2010, 08:33:13 am

Goblins lack any sort of trade animal, so they can't trade. If you add, for example, the following creature, they should be able to trade.

It worked!  ;D Thanks a lot.

---
Mephansteras: What's the deal with primitive civilisations? I mean how will they differ from the primitive civilisation that already are in the game? Perhaps you've already explained it somewhere, and in that case simple link to the thread/message will do. Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2010, 07:21:40 pm

These primitive civs aren't the underground feature ones. They're overland civs, so they'll make villages and spread out and trade and war and whatnot with everyone else. Unlike the main races, however, they're very limited technologically. They can only use copper, gold, or silver items and have a very limited range of armor and weapons that they can use. Not that this stops some of them from being very deadly (snakemen), but it generally means that they lose if they get into a war with any of the major races.

Gameplay-wise, it adds some more flavor to the world. Most of them will come trade with you, a few will try to steal items from you, and you might end up at war with them. I'm sure they'll make things much more interesting in Adventure mode than they do in Fortress mode, especially since Toady is expanding on that.

I created the Primitive civs as a standalone mod back in 40d and quite a lot of people liked it, so I figured I'd fold them into Civilization Forge this time. I'll also release a vanilla version of them as a stand-alone mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 07, 2010, 02:43:46 pm

So my weaponsmith made a platinum fist spike. :O

I didn't even know they were modded in. Does it use wrestling or something else?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2010, 12:46:52 am

They use Striking. So, basically the punching skill.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lupusater on August 08, 2010, 09:19:45 am

Separation reactions don't show up at the separation chamber. I've manually added them to the infusion chamber and they show up there, but not at the separation chamber, so it isn't lack of material on my part. If i check the separation chamber, it tells me that there is no task available and to check for raw materials or fuel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Angle on August 08, 2010, 12:50:47 pm

for alchemy, you might want to remove the flare crystals and replace them with a generic "power gem" that can be used with any of the elemental materials to make something better. Like you use it with the fire crystals to make blazing incendium, or you use it with frost crystals to make arctic glacium, etc.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 08, 2010, 12:59:40 pm

Quote from: Angle on August 08, 2010, 12:50:47 pm

for alchemy, you might want to remove the flare crystals and replace them with a generic "power gem" that can be used with any of the elemental materials to make something better. Like you use it with the fire crystals to make blazing incendium, or you use it with frost crystals to make arctic glacium, etc.

Chaos Emeralds?  :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 08, 2010, 02:52:41 pm

I'm pretty sure where there's only flare is because blazing incendium causes dwarves to burst into flame when used thn die.... it was added as a player mess-around sort of thing, like do bars of it dropped in water cause boiling death to fish.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2010, 08:00:33 pm

Quote from: Lupusater on August 08, 2010, 09:19:45 am

Separation reactions don't show up at the separation chamber. I've manually added them to the infusion chamber and they show up there, but not at the separation chamber, so it isn't lack of material on my part. If i check the separation chamber, it tells me that there is no task available and to check for raw materials or fuel.

Odd. I'll have to check that. I know I had it working fine before.

And, yeah, the Flare Crystals will have a good purpose at some point but for now they're just a way to make crazy kill-anything-that-holds-it Incendium.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Angle on August 08, 2010, 11:28:07 pm

Ah, OK then. Also, how do you make glass flasks? I can't find an option for them at the glass furnace. are you sure you didn't mean glass vials? Cause theres an option for that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 05:44:56 am

Sorry, yes. Glass flasks are called Vials, much the same way that leather flasks are called Waterskins. In any case, when you try to make them a bug makes them of fuel instead of the proper glass. So you get 'coke flasks' instead of 'green glass vials'.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Angle on August 09, 2010, 12:23:13 pm

so how should i edit the alchemy workshop so I can build it?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 12:23:42 pm

The Magma Finishing Forge just doesn't seem to work for me, so frustrating. :(

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 12:30:04 pm

Quote from: Angle on August 09, 2010, 12:23:13 pm

so how should i edit the alchemy workshop so I can build it?

Change [BUILD_ITEM:3:FLASK:NONE:NONE:NONE][GLASS_MATERIAL][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]
to [BUILD_ITEM:3:FLASK:NONE:NONE:NONE][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]

That should let you build it with ANY 3 flasks

@Prepaid Lenin: What errors are you getting?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 01:02:42 pm

Just the raw material and check for fuel warning.

Which is weird because all I need is iron and I have a couple bars.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 01:05:40 pm

Hmm. My guess would be that your civ is looking for a reaction that they don't have.

Try adding [BUILDING:FORGE_FINISHING_MAGMA:'s'] to each of the ironworks reactions that use the regular finishing forge in the raw folder for that fort. That should fix it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 01:23:17 pm

So it turns out that the way I had set up the workshop walled the middle square off from everything else.

FFFUUUUUUUUUUU

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 01:24:31 pm

Well, at least that's a fixable problem. :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 01:43:57 pm

One other thing that is bugging me is how impossible it is to defend caravans. I only ever trade with the yearly dwarven elixer convoy, but the moment they come on the map they get ambushed because 1 or 2 groups from every hostile species spawn with them. Is it possible to increase the number of caravan guards?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 01:49:16 pm

Unfortunately, no.

Best approach I've found is to make a few long underground tunnels for them to take that lead up outside your gate. If that's the only way in you can force them to use the tunnels. At each tunnel entrance you stick a tower with marksdwarves to defend it. As long as they can make it to one of those tunnels, they're pretty easy to defend since your enemies will be peppered by bolts which will hopefully slow them down.

Sticking War Giant Beetles chained up just inside the tunnels helps as well, since they're tough enough to take on a few enemies for a bit which should also slow down the ambushers enough to let the merchants get to your fortress.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 05:01:59 pm

Strangely enough I've been doing exactly that.

Maybe I just need to get more creative with the engineering...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 05:19:43 pm

Well, if you want to get excessive about it you can make a 'Forced Entryway'. Use raised bridges to create a walled off area right on the edge that has a single path to the fortress. Every invader and caravan will arrive at that spot, since that's the only way they can actually get to you. You can then make that area as heavily fortified as possible, including setting up special defense towers that can be opened/closed remotely to allow your warriors to enter and fight off any ambushes that show up. Or have tons of traps, chained animals, archer towers, etc.

You might still lose some caravans to ambushes showing up on top of them, but this gives you the most control.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Angle on August 09, 2010, 05:33:12 pm

How do I remove the races from the objects? Just delete the entity and creature file? I know I saw some advice for this somewhere, but now I can't find it....

NVM, it was in the README.

Oh, and thank you for your help so far :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2010, 05:46:39 pm

You're welcome.

Also, if you want some races for a given world-gen but not others, I'd just make a folder called 'Unused' and move the entity files you don't want for that Gen over. For civs you don't even need to remove the creature file, since they won't be placed on the world without the entity file.

The only time you really need to delete a file is if you flat out don't want a given race in your games.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 10, 2010, 12:50:59 pm

Evening, been trying out 2.22 mod, the latest when I first downloaded it, in an attempt to add some complexity and difficulty to the usual game.

However, I have a bit of an issue. On my current map I have gypsum and flint that I'd like to use in some constructions, but they do not appear in the list of possible materials, nor are they even listed in the economic stone menu to enable their use. Is there some workaround to it (or perhaps it was fixed in 2.23)?

Also I assume it is intended that animals only carry a tenth of what they do in vanilla, given there are more trading civilizations (and just to increase the difficulty somewhat)?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2010, 12:56:44 pm

I think you need to enable 'Gypsum powder' in the economic stones menu to use gypsum. I know I've gotten it to work in the past, and I didn't do any modding to Gypsum anyway. Flint should show up there as well. I'll have to check into it.

Yeah, it was a bit silly seeing a donkey come in with 4 cows on its back. So I made them a bit more realistic, although I may need to adjust the numbers some. The Land Strider was also added as a way to increase trade amounts in a reasonable fashion, since it can carry as much as a wagon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 10, 2010, 01:47:05 pm

Ah, I found the Gypsum toggle in the economic menu. Was just blind (four pages down and in the middle of a bunch of other disabled but not present stone). Flint, though, is definitely not there - no F stones at all from what I saw. I think it has the same issue as Obsidian - if it's not present as an entire layer, the max edge tag keeps it from being listed for some reason.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2010, 01:56:28 pm

That would explain it. Hopefully that's one of the bugs Toady will fix at some point.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 10, 2010, 06:08:36 pm

I have 2.2, and I'm having a problem. The dwarves refuse to use rock salt for anything (I haven't tried alchemy yet), regardless of the economic stone toggle.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2010, 06:10:10 pm

Hmm, I don't recall having any problems with it. Is this the layer stone or the deposits you find in sand?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 10, 2010, 06:14:21 pm

Both, actually. They'll dump it fine, I just cant build or craft with it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2010, 06:16:30 pm

Ok, I'll check it out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Angle on August 11, 2010, 12:16:30 am

there are two entries for rock salt, one between levitite and hematite, the other between claystone and limestone. maybe thats your problem? Also, for the alchemy workshop, maybe you should just have it use alchemy jars from the jarmakers furnace? At least until the flask bug gets fixed.

P.S. Good advice on the folders for the races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 11, 2010, 05:05:29 am

Playing with 2.3 test at the moment (with all primitive civs included and alive, which seems to be working so far).

Might just be my playing around but had two [ENTITY:MOUNTAIN_EVIL] items (from memory chaos_dwarf and dwarf_tainted)

The reactions in reaction_seperation_cf.txt should have been using the building CHAMBER_SEPARATION.

-

Fortress up and running, just about to start building all the metal/glass working and alchemy buildings now. See how things go them.

-

A request; Could you consider adding male/female caste names to the domestic (I.e. possible embark, and ideally all tameable animals). Makes management of breeding, caging and slaughter of animals much easier if you can tell there sex in all df lists. (E.g. Horse & Mare (or Horse mare), Horse foal, Mare foal (or Horse mare foal). This is also a pain to merge into all the appropriate raw files on updates if you do it yourself.

Keep up the good work
Drayath

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 09:56:22 am

Argg. Stupid tainted dwarf file. I keep removing it and it keeps creeping back in from somewhere. I'll make sure it's gone for the actual release.

And, yeah, I could get names for a bunch of the domestic animals. Should be easy enough to do.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 11, 2010, 11:00:28 am

Here are i think most of the ones i am presently using, can see where i started getting stuck with names near the end.
Choose to use a original name plus a postfix to indicate the females, means they stay together in sorted lists, but female children can end up with names that dont show up clearly unless you use the 1/2 screen menus instead of the 1/4 screen menus.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:dog bitch:dog bitches:dog bitch]
   [CHILDNAME:dog bitch puppy:dog bitch puppies]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:cat molly:cat mollies:cat molly]
   [CHILDNAME:cat molly kitten:cat molly kittens]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:donkey jenny:donkey jennies:donkey jenny]
   [CHILDNAME:donkey jenny foal:donkey jenny foals]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:horse mare:horse mares:horse mare]
   [CHILDNAME:horse mare:horse mare foals]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:pig sow:pig sows:pig sow]
   [CHILDNAME:piglet sow:piglet sows]
   
// hen, only one where female name is presently used
[CASTE:MALE]
   [MALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:rooster:roosters:rooster]
   [CHILDNAME:rooster chick:rooster chicks]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:cave crab hen:cave crab hens:cave crab hen]
   [CHILDNAME:cave crab hen hatchling:cave crab hen hatchlings]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:sugar beetle (f):sugar beetles (f):sugar beetle (f)]
   [CHILDNAME:sugar beetle (f) larva:sugar beetle (f) larva]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:giant beetle(f):giant beetles (f):giant beetle (f)]
   [CHILDNAME:giant beetle (f) larva:giant beetle (f) larva]
   
[CASTE:FEMALE]
   [FEMALE]
   [CASTE_NAME:land strider (f):land striders (f):land strider (f)]
   [CHILDNAME:land strider (f) calf:land strider (f) calves]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 11:09:15 am

Some animals also have specific names for juveniles of a given sex. Young female horses are Fillies, for example. That might solve the space problem a bit.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 11:35:23 am

Quote from: Angle on August 11, 2010, 12:16:30 am

there are two entries for rock salt, one between levitite and hematite, the other between claystone and limestone. maybe thats your problem? Also, for the alchemy workshop, maybe you should just have it use alchemy jars from the jarmakers furnace? At least until the flask bug gets fixed.

P.S. Good advice on the folders for the races.

If you're referring to the economic stone list that's just because there is the layer rock salt and the rock salt deposits that show up in sand. They have different tokens, so they should be fine.

Yeah, I should switch the alchemist's lab to need jars. Easier to make sure you have at the moment.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 11, 2010, 11:38:24 am

Beetle were the ones i got particularly stuck on, as far as i can tell they are normally just called "female xxx beetle". Long names for children is not that bad (though messy in the ui), cant do much except stick them in a cage to save FPS until they grow up anyway.
Land Strideress might work for land strider, made up but short.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 11:40:52 am

Yeah, I don't think anyone ever bothered to come up with sex-specific beetle names. Eh, I'll think about it.

Hmm, I could just have the males be called Land Strider Bulls, which would work just as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 11, 2010, 02:13:04 pm

ha bull and Betty like in morrowind.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 11, 2010, 04:10:21 pm

If you have foxes ((Can't remember)) the females are called "vixens."

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 04:17:41 pm

Foxes are standard DF animals, and not normally domesticated, but I guess I could change them.

Hmm...I suppose I could also call female Vamarii Vixens, since they're basically humanoid arctic foxes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 11, 2010, 04:21:32 pm

That's an idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 12, 2010, 11:58:08 am

Having no better options for the beetles, I think I'll call the males Bulls. That's used commonly enough in naming male animals and it's short. So you'll have a Giant Beetle Bull or a sugar beetle Bull.

Also, I'm adding in some more Crab species. An ocean-going version of the Cave Crab, and a Giant Cave Crab that'll show up further in the depths. Plus Semimegabeast and Megabeast versions of Crabs and Beetles.

Hmm. I should also add in some vermin crab to the ocean as well. I don't think those are in there.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 12, 2010, 01:17:57 pm

Are the workaround buildings for creating crystal glass intended only to make windows, blocks, and raw crystal? I'd like to make crystal vials for the alchemy lab but obviously the standard glass furnace is still bugged and the option doesn't exist in the crystal furnace.

I suppose in retrospect using rock crystal for anything other than raw crystal and crystal bars is a waste, given you are limited to only what you have on your map (or, if you're lucky, what few extra traders bring you).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 12, 2010, 01:20:14 pm

You're supposed to be able to make vials too, but I apparently forgot to add that reaction to the dwarven civ. It'll be in for 2.3.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 12, 2010, 10:18:11 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on August 10, 2010, 06:08:36 pm

I have 2.2, and I'm having a problem. The dwarves refuse to use rock salt for anything (I haven't tried alchemy yet), regardless of the economic stone toggle.

Not sure what's causing that for you. I just made a new fortress and was able to use rock salt just fine after toggling it to usable.

Are you using the Filler Stones? If you are, there are three Rock Salt options in the stones list, not just two.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 13, 2010, 12:41:05 pm

Oops, never mind. I should update to 2.23.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 13, 2010, 12:42:35 pm

They shouldn't need any of the magma specific reactions anymore, since I moved both buildings into the main reaction.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 14, 2010, 02:47:58 pm

Just as a note - long-standing text error here: "verdent crystal grass" really should be "verdant". It's managed to slip through editing passes for a while.

Of more concern: Maybe I just missed this, but - is flint supposed to be not useable for building? I took some along with me at embark and they won't build with it, yet I can't find it in the stones menu.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 14, 2010, 03:25:25 pm

it's probably missing the [IS_STONE] tag under it's data in the raws, look to see if it has it, if not add it and you can build with it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 14, 2010, 05:20:04 pm

Mmmm... nope:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INORGANIC:FLINT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:flint][DISPLAY_COLOR:3:0:0][TILE:'%']
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:LIMESTONE:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:CHALK:CLUSTER_SMALL:100]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:LIMESTONE:VEIN:70]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:CHALK:VEIN:70]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:LIMESTONE:CLUSTER:10]
[ENVIRONMENT_SPEC:CHALK:CLUSTER:10]
[IS_STONE]
[MAX_EDGE:20000]

It is missing a MATERIAL_VALUE, but I think that just means it defaults to 1, thus not an error. Seems to be the case with stock stones that don't have increased value.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 14, 2010, 07:22:13 pm

Flint has the same problems as Obsidian does in vanilla. The MAX_EDGE tag, for some reason, prevents it from being listed in the economic stone menu unless it exists as a layer stone - at least in Obsidian's case. Since Flint can't be a layer stone that's not exactly a possibility in its case.

As a workaround, you can save your fort, remove the MAX_EDGE tag, load the fort, enable Flint, save the fort, and add the MAX_EDGE tag again. That's assuming you even care to use it in stone swords, can just leave it off otherwise.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 15, 2010, 01:52:49 pm

Ah, okay. Good to know - I gave up on that fort in favour of one that was a bit more forgiving(a 30-tall magma pump stack instead of 130, among other things), but definitely good to know about that little quirk.

Speaking of magma - I searched and found mention that it was unclear which boundary tiles would permit a blast furnace to be magma-fired. Has there been any new development on that front? I can try to slice across it vertically, one tile away from center, and hope that I can get the necessary tile while staying under the impassable tiles(trying to avoid accidental tumbles into magma), but if I can work with a little more precision, it'd certainly be welcome.

ADDENDUM: Seems I've answered that for myself, at least partially. When making a magma blast furnace, the second tile from the left and second from the top(that is, if the top left corner is (0,0), tile (1,1)) is the "anchor" tile, the tile that must be built on solid ground rather than over open space. I would gather that it's the same for other larger-than-normal workshops. At any rate, I have the top middle(2,0) and bottom middle(2,4) tiles dug out, and the blast furnace works; my guess is that the top one is responsible - that any of the eight tiles surrounding (1,1) would work. (2,0) happens to be one of those which is impassable on the finished workshop, which is a handy place to put the channel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 15, 2010, 10:06:04 pm

I just dug out wherever under the new magma furnaces. I don't think it matters where the magma sits as long as it's not under where the dwarf works. That's true for vanilla smelters and forges too.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 16, 2010, 06:06:40 am

With vanilla smelters and forges, you can't place them if the tile where the dwarf sits is dug out, because that's the tile that needs to be on solid ground. :)

Good to know the furnaces are forgiving, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2010, 12:23:36 pm

Yeah, I didn't have any real problems placing any of the magma furnaces when I tested them out.

I was a groomsman in a friend's wedding this weekend, so I didn't have any time to play. So I'm still testing stuff out for 2.30.

Any more comments from those of you who've been trying out the test files?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 16, 2010, 12:32:19 pm

Would it be readily possible to extend the crystal glass furnace to make more types of furniture? Notwithstanding what's been said about the limited supply of rock crystal, it might be nice to have e.g. coffins made from crystal glass. At least for the special people.

I can understand not having crafts, instruments, and toys(because those normally have variable elements), but for most furniture, the only thing that could potentially be missing is the quality modifier, and in certain special cases I'm willing to do without that - if I'm making a home or tomb for a dwarf that's been particularly awesome but doesn't demand such accommodations outright, having the quality mod be nil can actually be beneficial(as nobles who DO want such accommodations don't whine about this person's awesome stuff). This will be moot if glass is working again before most nobles are, but still...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on August 16, 2010, 01:10:46 pm

Once you have the raw crystal made, I'd bet you can use the normal furnace. I haven't tried, though, so don't take my word for it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 16, 2010, 01:26:54 pm

Nnnnnnnnope. As with all types of glass, crystal glass furnaces are supposed to make the item directly. They don't use raw glass as a reagent to make blocks, toys, furniture, or anything - they use the same material you would use to make raw glass, in this case pearlash and a glassable gem(rock crystal), the latter of which is currently broken.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2010, 02:05:51 pm

Sure, it's easy enough to add in. I just didn't initially because it was extra work and I didn't know what people would want.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 16, 2010, 03:48:42 pm

I'm curious, now - has the issue with finding reagents in containers been addressed yet? Being able to use glass vials would make alchemy feel somewhat less clunky(and allow for them to be stored separate from toys, always a plus). I thought I'd seen a mod that used such a reaction,  but I don't know if it was tested in-game...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2010, 03:50:27 pm

As far as I know that hasn't been fixed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 16, 2010, 04:16:55 pm

Ah, I had a closer look at the reaction format and it seems you're right - or at least, I was wrong. It can look for empty containers or containers full of, say, lye, and it can output the product to a container(presumably a vial would work here - FLASK:NO_SUBTYPE:GLASS_MATERIAL:NO_SUBTYPE or something similar), but that still leaves the other half of the problem.

Curses. Though even if it had, that would have left the problem of how to handle the various substances. Mercury is a metal, sure(it just has a very low melting point), but some of the others might be... kind of iffy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on August 16, 2010, 10:54:32 pm

The reactions for separating mithril and levisium refer to the tempering chamber instead of the separation chamber, even in 2.23. However, although the tempering chamber would inform you that no tasks were available and to check for material access and fuel (at least in the case of my magma tempering chambers, built directly over the magma sea), I was able to get the separation chambers to work after fixing the appropriate entries:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[REACTION:SEPARATE_TRUESILVER_GREEN]
   [NAME:separate mithril from truesilver]
   [BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_M]
   [REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:TRUESILVER]
   [REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:20:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
   [SKILL:ALCHEMY]

   
-- 33% chance for Levisium from Levitite
[REACTION:SEPARATE_LEVITITE_GREEN]
   [NAME:separate levisium from levitite]
   [BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_M]
   [REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEVITITE]
   [REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:33:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:LEVISIUM][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
   [SKILL:ALCHEMY]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2010, 01:45:51 pm

Yeah, that's pretty much how it looks in 2.3

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[REACTION:SEPARATE_TRUESILVER_GREEN]
   [NAME:separate mithril from truesilver]
   [BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_M]
   [REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:TRUESILVER]
   [REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:SILVER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:20:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:MITHRIL][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
   [SKILL:ALCHEMY]

   
-- 33% chance for Levisium from Levitite
[REACTION:SEPARATE_LEVITITE_GREEN]
   [NAME:separate levisium from levitite]
   [BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_L]
   [REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:LEVITITE]
   [REAGENT:B:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMEN_AREN_FILLED_GREEN]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:COPPER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:33:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:LEVISIUM][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_JAR:INORGANIC:EMPTY_ALCHEMICAL]
   [SKILL:ALCHEMY]

Anyone with the 2.3 test files had any experience with the Beastmen yet? They're the last part that I haven't really seen show up in fort mode yet. I may need to do a specific test of them.

Once I know they work ok, I'll probably release 2.3. Any additional bugs can just come out in future versions.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 17, 2010, 03:02:08 pm

Not seen any beastmen yet in my game, which has just resulted in fortress death.

With all primitive races on you seem to get 2-3 years before chaos strikes. Due to large amount of ambushers combined with large amounts of caravans to be killed you quickly upset some->most of the friendly/neutral civs.

Note that the first siege in all 3 forts i have had has been dynisoria riding flying ants. Not so bad for a fully below ground fortress, but a nightmare if you are relying on large amount of above ground defence tower, fortification corridors. Allways seem to miss a single floor tile somewhere letting in the flying squad.

Had the entire border of a 4x4 embark within xbow range of by defensive wall, but was missing a single floor tile above one of the fortifications, and it seems flying things can travel diagonally downwards.

Code: [Select]

___
F F
 #    g g
## ######
## ######
#########


Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Prepaid Lenin on August 18, 2010, 08:06:10 am

I'm not certain, but I think flint may have displaced coal entirely from limestone layers :X

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 10:17:29 am

It shouldn't, although I suppose you could get maps where the RNG gives you much more flint than anything else.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 11:53:06 am

argh I can't find the test files, where are they?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 12:17:18 pm

Civilization Forge 2.3 Test Files (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2898)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 12:28:02 pm

ok then thanks, downloaded now, added all primitive civs, and beastmen, did not add filler stone.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 12:32:38 pm

Thanks. Let me know how it goes.

Also, you might find *all* of the primitive civs a bit excessive. But I suppose that's just more opportunity for fun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 01:31:46 pm

I rather like having huge hordes of enemies, find it a challenge, also am planning on pissing off any of those who trade so they attack too.  One thing to report, I have no idea what is used to 'throw' the throwing items, I've tried longarms, crossbows, bows, ect and they wont use it (and I do know to assign ammo, quivers ect.) 
-Also even when I didn't add in the filler stones package, I've continously strike limestone within limestone...... and I've mined two levels and found gems and flint but no ore because of it, guess flint hand axes are gonna be my military weapon... along with bone crossbows, this shall be fun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 01:34:39 pm

Hmm, the throwing weapons should work just fine with the Longarm. They do on my games, at least. Just make sure that the squad that uses them *only* uses throwing weapons and long arms for ranged, otherwise they'll grab the wrong ammo type and walk around clubbing people.

Anyone else using the test files get longarms to work? I'm not sure how tested those were by the time I put out the test files...

I'll have to look into the Limestone issue. Sounds like that's causing problems.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Shurhaian on August 18, 2010, 02:05:36 pm

On a different note, I confess to having some difficulty understanding alchemy. Some of this may be because I'm not working with it in sufficient volumes to stay fresh(dratted lack of rock salt), but whatever the cause, it means a lot of scrolling back and forth in the Basics file, thinking "And that's used for what, exactly?" or "What is it that I need to make this, again?"

Is anyone out there half-decent at graphical design? A visual "tree" of what's needed for what, a flowchart like there was for crops (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/File:Df-crops-diagram.png) in 40d, might help connect the dots - or at least reinforce what's necessary and what would be redundant. It would need care, especially where two different reactions can produce the same thing(I'm looking at you, Emen Aren), but it might make for a helpful at-a-glance guide.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.22 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 02:08:27 pm

Yeah, drayath made one.

Quote from: drayath on August 03, 2010, 04:58:29 pm

Here is a diagram showing how the alchemy reactions link together if it helps anyone use alchemy.

http://www.brightsoft.net/AlchemyGraph.png

Key:
Boxes = mineable items
Triangle = bars
Dotted boxes = plants/trees
Ovals = alchemy materials
Dotted Ovals = alternative ways to make something.

If you want to recreate or tweak the diagram here is the data to create the graph using the free GraphViz program.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

digraph G {
   ratio=compress;
   size=16;
   
   // minable
   Cinnabar [shape=box];
   Cobaltite [shape=box];
   Stibnite [shape=box];
   Melanerite [shape=box];
   Chalcanthite [shape=box];
   Bauxite [shape=box];
   Alunite [shape=box];
   "Alum Slate" [shape=box];
   "Rock Salt" [shape=box];
   Talc [shape=box];
   Olivine [shape=box];
   Dolomite [shape=box];
   "Frost Crystal" [shape=box];
   Fireheart [shape=box];
   "Storm Crystal" [shape=box];
   "Ward Crystal" [shape=box];
   "Flare Crystal" [shape=box];
   Saltpeter [shape=box];
   Truesilver [shape=box];
   Levitite [shape=box];
   
   // bars
   "Crystal Glass" [shape=triangle];
   Mithril [shape=triangle];
   Levisium [shape=triangle];   
   Gold [shape=triangle];
   Platinum [shape=triangle];
   Tin [shape=triangle];
   Silver [shape=triangle];
   Copper [shape=triangle];
   Iron [shape=triangle];
   Glacium [shape=triangle];
   Incendium [shape=triangle];
   Tempestium [shape=triangle];
   "Ward Iron" [shape=triangle];
   Elementium [shape=triangle];
   "Blazing Incendium" [shape=triangle];
   "Bright Silver" [shape=triangle];
   "Royal Bronze" [shape=triangle];
   "Verdant Bronze" [shape=triangle];
   "Green Copper" [shape=triangle];
   Orihalcum [shape=triangle];
   "Tempered Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Night Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Blood Crystal" [shape=triangle];
   "Void Crystal" [shape=triangle];   
   
   // Plant
   "Oil Nut" [shape=box, style=dotted];
   "Tunnel Tube" [shape=box, style=dotted];
   
   // Structal
   Oil1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Oil2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Alum3 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Emen Aren1" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Emen Aren2" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid1" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid2" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   "Ikal Nabid3" [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Vitriol1 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];
   Vitriol2 [width=.37, height=.25, fontsize=10, style=dotted];

   Potash -> Saltpeter;
   
   Fuel  -> Quicksilver;
   Cinnabar -> Quicksilver;
   
   Oil -> "Midnight Elixir" [weight=5];
   Cobaltite -> "Midnight Elixir";
   
   Fuel -> Antimony;
   Stibnite -> Antimony [weight=5];
   
   Fuel -> "Green Vitriol";
   Melanerite -> "Green Vitriol";
   
   Fuel -> Vitriol1;
   "Green Vitriol" -> Vitriol1;
   
   Fuel -> Vitriol2;
   Alum -> Vitriol2;
   
   Vitriol1 -> Vitriol;
   Vitriol2 -> Vitriol;
   
   Chalcanthite -> "Blue Vitriol";
   
   Potash -> Alum1;
   "Alum Slate" -> Alum1;
   
   Potash -> Alum2;
   Bauxite -> Alum2;
   
   Potash -> Alum3;
   Alunite -> Alum3;
   
   Alum1 -> Alum;
   Alum2 -> Alum;
   Alum3 -> Alum;
   
   "Green Vitriol" -> "Emen Aren1" [weight=5];
   Saltpeter -> "Emen Aren1";
   
   "Blue Vitriol" -> "Emen Aren2" [weight=2];
   Saltpeter -> "Emen Aren2";
   Alum -> "Emen Aren2";
   
   "Emen Aren1" -> "Emen Aren";
   "Emen Aren2" -> "Emen Aren";
   
   "Rock Salt" -> Salt;

   Vitriol -> "Nabid Ubal";
   Salt -> "Nabid Ubal";
   
   "Nabid Ubal" -> "Relon Aren";
   "Emen Aren" -> "Relon Aren";
   
   Talc -> "Ikal Nabid1";
   Olivine -> "Ikal Nabid2";   
   Dolomite -> "Ikal Nabid3";
   
   "Ikal Nabid1" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   "Ikal Nabid2" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   "Ikal Nabid3" -> "Ikal Nabid";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Frost Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Frost Crystal "-> "Frost Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Fire Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Fireheart" -> "Fire Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Storm Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Storm Crystal" -> "Storm Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Ward Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Ward Crystal" -> "Ward Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Pure Elixir" [weight=5];
   "Frost Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   Fireheart -> "Pure Elixir"
   "Storm Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   "Ward Crystal" -> "Pure Elixir";
   
   "Relon Aren" -> "Blaze Elixir" [weight=5];
   Fireheart -> "Blaze Elixir";
   "Flare Crystal" -> "Blaze Elixir";
   
   "Frost Elixir" -> Glacium;
   Iron -> Glacium;
   
   "Fire Elixir" -> Incendium;
   Iron -> Incendium;
   
   "Storm Elixir" -> Tempestium;
   Iron -> Tempestium;
   
   "Ward Elixir" -> "Ward Iron";
   Iron -> "Ward Iron";
   
   "Pure Elixir" -> Elementium;
   Iron -> Elementium;
   
   "Blaze Elixir" -> "Blazing Incendium";
   Iron -> "Blazing Incendium";

   "Oil Nut" -> Oil1;
   
   "Tunnel Tube" -> Oil2;
   
   Oil1 -> Oil;
   Oil2 -> Oil;
   
   Truesilver -> Mithril;
   "Emen Aren" -> Mithril;
   
   Levitite -> Levisium;
   "Emen Aren" -> Levisium;
   
   Mithril -> "Bright Silver";
   Silver -> "Bright Silver" [weight=4];
   
   Mithril -> "Royal Bronze";
   Tin -> "Royal Bronze";
   Copper -> "Royal Bronze" [weight=4];
   
   Levisium -> "Verdant Bronze";
   Tin -> "Verdant Bronze";
   Copper -> "Verdant Bronze" [weight=4];
   
   Levisium -> "Green Copper";
   Copper -> "Green Copper" [weight=3];
   
   Mithril -> Orihalcum;
   Gold -> Orihalcum;
   Platinum -> Orihalcum;
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Tempered Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Tempered Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Night Crystal";
   "Midnight Elixir" -> "Night Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Blood Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Blood Crystal";
   "Quicksilver" -> "Blood Crystal";
   
   "Crystal Glass" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Ikal Nabid" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Quicksilver" -> "Void Crystal";
   "Midnight Elixir" -> "Void Crystal";
   Antimony -> "Void Crystal";   
};

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 02:15:09 pm

hum interesting note, 'stone hand axes' take their material from the wood used not the stone, thus instead of having flint hand axes, I'm ending up with oak hand axes... which really suck.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 02:16:54 pm

Quote from: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 02:15:09 pm

hum interesting note, 'stone hand axes' take their material from the wood used not the stone, thus instead of having flint hand axes, I'm ending up with oak hand axes... which really suck.

Hmm. Sounds like Flint might be a bad thing to have in the game at this point. Maybe I should take it out until making stone weapons is actually practical.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 02:54:28 pm

shouldn't you just be able to change the reaction for making stone weapons to take the material from the stone and not the wood, cause not having to make iron axes for all my woodcutters, yet still having half decent axe for them is a good thing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 02:59:46 pm

Well, I can't effect the crafts workshop. I could make a custom workshop for various weapons out of stone and wood, though. I don't think they'd have quality modifiers, but they'd probably be better than wooden weapons.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 18, 2010, 03:00:18 pm

It's a DF display bug. It happens with vanilla obsidian as well. Absolutely nothing can be done about it. (I'm nearly certain that it is, in fact, purely a display issue. My experiments in vanilla showed the "wooden" weapons made from obsidian were much deadlier than normal wooden weapons against soft targets.)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 03:03:06 pm

ah that's a good thing, only odd thing is that my high master wood crafter is the one making them, of course they are all masterful because of it, haha anyways first dwarven caravan showed up, expecting animalmen to show soon too due to their civs being on the "c' menu.
edit*This may be a problem

Quote

Duplicate Object: entity MOUNTAIN_EVIL

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 03:04:25 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on August 18, 2010, 03:00:18 pm

It's a DF display bug. It happens with vanilla obsidian as well. Absolutely nothing can be done about it. (I'm nearly certain that it is, in fact, purely a display issue. My experiments in vanilla showed the "wooden" weapons made from obsidian were much deadlier than normal wooden weapons against soft targets.)

Ah. Well, in that case I guess we're fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 09:06:46 pm

latest fort has a ratmen civ beneath it, and they seem to work fine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 20, 2010, 11:59:36 am

If anyone wants to test civforge 2.3 TEST with graphics (and some other tweaks) try this:

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

Hopefully after civforge 2.3, next version of df and the significant graphics pack update this should allow (text can use a separate ttf font instead of the graphics tiles, + other features) I will have something ready to go on the first post if that offer is still open.

readme

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dwarf Fortress 31.12 (win-graphics)
  by
Toady One

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

------
Graphics Sets

  Phoebus Graphic Set 0.31.12v03 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57557.0]
    - Meld tileset enabled (more subtle rock symbols), see phoebus readme for information on the alternatives included.

  Civilization Forge Graphics Pack by Undeadstag [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1119]
    - Drayaths fixes so that the graphics have a proper transparent background. (I.e. the purple square background in game)
    - Drayaths fixes so that nothing reported to the errorlog.txt file.
    - PLEASE REPORT any creatures you see not using graphics. I'm not going to attempt to draw anything, but can at least use an appropiate existing image for it.
    - Known Issue: None of the new primitive civs or beastmen have any graphics.

  Drayaths mods to civforge to use Phoebus graphics for all non-creature civ forge additions.
    - No new graphics have been added for this, but all new minerals/gems use appropiate(ish) graphics and in use groups of minerals seems to stand out from there surroundings.
    - Known issue: punctuation in words (language_*.txt files) for the new races gets converted into various odd symbols. Next version of dwarf fortress should be splitting out the text and graphics to resolve this.

-------
Mods

  Civilization Forge 2.30 TEST by Mephansteras [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.0]
    - All primitive civilizations and beastman have been activated.
    - Reduced mineral availability not enabled.
    - Large map template included, generate a map with most civs still alive. (addition start civs, generation ends at year 250, some other tweaks)
    - Drayaths tweaks so Ravens occur less frequently (too much job cancelation spam when doing outside constuction) but it tamed can now be trained as Hunting Ravens!

  Dwarven Higher Learning Mod by Shukaro (v2.1) [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60853.msg1377358]
    - Drayaths fixes for some typos in the reactions.
 
  Crematorium Workshop by Lazureus [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54058.msg1159978]
    - Drayaths tweaks to add Magma Crematorium, normal crematorium now needs fuel, new reactions to burn fat/tallow, outputs tweaked
    - Drayaths fixes to added keyboard shortcuts to reactions
 
  Profits Stone Annihilator (2.00.000)
    - Drayaths tweaks to support civforge stone types.

  NoExotics by madk [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.msg1332644#msg1332644]
    - THIS HAS NOT BEEN RUN. Run to train exotic animal without dungeon master.

  Drayaths Stone Crusher Workshop
    -  Crush selected types of boulders into bags of sand. Allows glassworking on a sandless map.
    -  1 boulder (of any type) + empty bag => bag of sand.

  Drayaths Gem Splitting Workshop v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62608.0]
    - New mod, allow the cutting of large gems and gem crafts into a number of small gems.
    - If you have a legendary gemcutter this can result in significantly more gems as they produce more gem crafts.
      - Uses Gem Cutting skills (only affects speed)
      - Crown => 5 small gems
      - Scepter => 4 small gems
      - Figurine, Large Gem  => 3 small gems
      - Earring, Amulet, Ring, Braclet => 2 small gems

  Drayaths Seed Brewery v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62433.msg1431166#msg1431166]
    - New mod, allows brewing of seeds directly to alcohol.
    - Each brew operation uses up 5 seeds of the appropriate type.
    - Once 25 seeds have been used you will get a barrel containing 25 of the appropriate alcohol.
    - If a plant does not normally produce alcohol you will get sewer brew.
    - Use to safely reduce your seed stockpiles and recover bags and space (e.g. use job manager to brew 20 pig tail seed jobs will consume 100 pig tail seeds and produce 4x25 dwarven beer)
    - Support for the civforge plants.

  Drayaths Burnstuff addon v1
    - New mod, most wooden items (e.g. barrels, boxes, catapult parts) can be burnt in the civforge/genesis/ironworks 'Charcoal Furnace' to produce charcoal. Clear out low quality wooden item, or burn some of the tat from elven caravans.
    - Existing reaction is 1 wood = 2 charcoal
    - New reactions : 1 wood + 2 small wooden items = 3 charcoal  (weapons, armour, buckets, splints, crutches)
    - New reactions: 1 wood + 1 large wooden item = 3 charcoal (barrel, bed, bins, blocks, boxes, cabinet, cages, chairs, doors, pipe sections, statues, tables, seige engine parts/ammo, trap components, weapon/armourstand,
    - Burning arrows is not supported

  Drayaths Plant Grow times increased significantly
    - Weeds=500 (rat weed, slime mould) [did not exist]
    - Fast=800 (plump helmet, pig tail, rope reed, oil nut) [was 300]
    - Normal=1200 (most plants) [was 500]
    - Slow=2000 (quarry bush, cinamon, black pepper) [quarry bush was 800]
    - Genarally vanilla plants have more than doubled, civforge plants have been tweaked.
    - 1 farmer will still produce the same ammount of plants, but will need more fields and more fertilizer.

  Drayaths Weapon Tweaks
    - Lowered ranged weapon damage. Still high (and iron bolt to the head/throat will usally kill through any armor)
    - Other than lucky shots any metal armor help greatly (most shots go from chips bone to bruises fat/skin)
    - Armor of better metals only seems to help a little, civforge heavy armors only seem to help a little.

  Unknowns Display Case Mod
    - Weapon, Armor and General display cases. Finally something useful to do with your useless artifacts.

  Use of enemy bones (e.g. goblins) and skull totems now allowed.
    - If you dont want this, in entity_default.txt replace the first MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE with MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:APPALLING

  Domestic and some other start animals have specific names for members of the female sex. (base and civforge animals)

  Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram.

  Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram.


------

Hope you enjoy
Drayath

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

------

31.12 V3 (20/08/10)
- Added: ExpandRawTags tool, helper tool to merge mods together. Ensure every tag in raws is in on a separate line (indentation retained as per unexpanded line)
- Added: Drayaths Burnstuff addon
- Added: Drayaths Stone Crushing workshop
- Added: Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram
- Added: Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram
- Added: Allow trophies of enemies
- Added: Plant grow times significantly increased (especially vanilla plants)
- Added: Ranged ammo and whips are affected by armour slightly more
- Updated civforge: 2.22 => 2.3 TEST
- Updated Higher Learning Mod 2.0.1 => 2.1
- Updated Gem Splitting Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts, made reactions automatic, tweaks to output ammounts)
- Updated Seed Brewery Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts)
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v01 => 0.31.12v03
- Fixed: Keyboard shortcuts to crematorium reactions
- Fixed: Tidy up of entity_default file and comments. Each mod listed above is in a separate block to allow easy removal/changes.
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack was not using transparent background for graphics (show as purple squares in game).
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack some animals specified incorrectly: Cave Crab, Chicken
- Doc: Added display cases to readme.

31.12 V2 (26/07/10)
- Added: Drayaths Seed Brewery
- Added: Female caste names for common animals
- Updated civforge: 2.21 => 2.22
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v00 => 0.31.12v01
- Fixed: Errors from Civilization Forge Graphics Pack logged to errorlog.txt
- Fixed: Missed the higher learning mod entries from the entity_default.txt file!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2010, 12:09:38 pm

Cool

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Repulsion on August 20, 2010, 08:05:11 pm

  Any help in getting graphics to work in Civforge 40d?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 23, 2010, 12:33:14 pm

The 40d Civilization Forge (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18746.msg185017#msg185017) thread should have some info on that.

Horribly busy weekend for me, so I didn't get a chance to play. May or may not get some time tonight. I do have a new fort set to test the Beastmen, though, so as soon as I get to see them in action I'll be able to figure out what tweaks I need to make (if any).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: negorath on August 24, 2010, 01:18:12 pm

Quote from: drayath on August 20, 2010, 11:59:36 am

If anyone wants to test civforge 2.3 TEST with graphics (and some other tweaks) try this:

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

Hopefully after civforge 2.3, next version of df and the significant graphics pack update this should allow (text can use a separate ttf font instead of the graphics tiles, + other features) I will have something ready to go on the first post if that offer is still open.

readme

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dwarf Fortress 31.12 (win-graphics)
  by
Toady One

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

------
Graphics Sets

  Phoebus Graphic Set 0.31.12v03 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57557.0]
    - Meld tileset enabled (more subtle rock symbols), see phoebus readme for information on the alternatives included.

  Civilization Forge Graphics Pack by Undeadstag [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1119]
    - Drayaths fixes so that the graphics have a proper transparent background. (I.e. the purple square background in game)
    - Drayaths fixes so that nothing reported to the errorlog.txt file.
    - PLEASE REPORT any creatures you see not using graphics. I'm not going to attempt to draw anything, but can at least use an appropiate existing image for it.
    - Known Issue: None of the new primitive civs or beastmen have any graphics.

  Drayaths mods to civforge to use Phoebus graphics for all non-creature civ forge additions.
    - No new graphics have been added for this, but all new minerals/gems use appropiate(ish) graphics and in use groups of minerals seems to stand out from there surroundings.
    - Known issue: punctuation in words (language_*.txt files) for the new races gets converted into various odd symbols. Next version of dwarf fortress should be splitting out the text and graphics to resolve this.

-------
Mods

  Civilization Forge 2.30 TEST by Mephansteras [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.0]
    - All primitive civilizations and beastman have been activated.
    - Reduced mineral availability not enabled.
    - Large map template included, generate a map with most civs still alive. (addition start civs, generation ends at year 250, some other tweaks)
    - Drayaths tweaks so Ravens occur less frequently (too much job cancelation spam when doing outside constuction) but it tamed can now be trained as Hunting Ravens!

  Dwarven Higher Learning Mod by Shukaro (v2.1) [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60853.msg1377358]
    - Drayaths fixes for some typos in the reactions.
 
  Crematorium Workshop by Lazureus [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54058.msg1159978]
    - Drayaths tweaks to add Magma Crematorium, normal crematorium now needs fuel, new reactions to burn fat/tallow, outputs tweaked
    - Drayaths fixes to added keyboard shortcuts to reactions
 
  Profits Stone Annihilator (2.00.000)
    - Drayaths tweaks to support civforge stone types.

  NoExotics by madk [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.msg1332644#msg1332644]
    - THIS HAS NOT BEEN RUN. Run to train exotic animal without dungeon master.

  Drayaths Stone Crusher Workshop
    -  Crush selected types of boulders into bags of sand. Allows glassworking on a sandless map.
    -  1 boulder (of any type) + empty bag => bag of sand.

  Drayaths Gem Splitting Workshop v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62608.0]
    - New mod, allow the cutting of large gems and gem crafts into a number of small gems.
    - If you have a legendary gemcutter this can result in significantly more gems as they produce more gem crafts.
      - Uses Gem Cutting skills (only affects speed)
      - Crown => 5 small gems
      - Scepter => 4 small gems
      - Figurine, Large Gem  => 3 small gems
      - Earring, Amulet, Ring, Braclet => 2 small gems

  Drayaths Seed Brewery v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62433.msg1431166#msg1431166]
    - New mod, allows brewing of seeds directly to alcohol.
    - Each brew operation uses up 5 seeds of the appropriate type.
    - Once 25 seeds have been used you will get a barrel containing 25 of the appropriate alcohol.
    - If a plant does not normally produce alcohol you will get sewer brew.
    - Use to safely reduce your seed stockpiles and recover bags and space (e.g. use job manager to brew 20 pig tail seed jobs will consume 100 pig tail seeds and produce 4x25 dwarven beer)
    - Support for the civforge plants.

  Drayaths Burnstuff addon v1
    - New mod, most wooden items (e.g. barrels, boxes, catapult parts) can be burnt in the civforge/genesis/ironworks 'Charcoal Furnace' to produce charcoal. Clear out low quality wooden item, or burn some of the tat from elven caravans.
    - Existing reaction is 1 wood = 2 charcoal
    - New reactions : 1 wood + 2 small wooden items = 3 charcoal  (weapons, armour, buckets, splints, crutches)
    - New reactions: 1 wood + 1 large wooden item = 3 charcoal (barrel, bed, bins, blocks, boxes, cabinet, cages, chairs, doors, pipe sections, statues, tables, seige engine parts/ammo, trap components, weapon/armourstand,
    - Burning arrows is not supported

  Drayaths Plant Grow times increased significantly
    - Weeds=500 (rat weed, slime mould) [did not exist]
    - Fast=800 (plump helmet, pig tail, rope reed, oil nut) [was 300]
    - Normal=1200 (most plants) [was 500]
    - Slow=2000 (quarry bush, cinamon, black pepper) [quarry bush was 800]
    - Genarally vanilla plants have more than doubled, civforge plants have been tweaked.
    - 1 farmer will still produce the same ammount of plants, but will need more fields and more fertilizer.

  Drayaths Weapon Tweaks
    - Lowered ranged weapon damage. Still high (and iron bolt to the head/throat will usally kill through any armor)
    - Other than lucky shots any metal armor help greatly (most shots go from chips bone to bruises fat/skin)
    - Armor of better metals only seems to help a little, civforge heavy armors only seem to help a little.

  Unknowns Display Case Mod
    - Weapon, Armor and General display cases. Finally something useful to do with your useless artifacts.

  Use of enemy bones (e.g. goblins) and skull totems now allowed.
    - If you dont want this, in entity_default.txt replace the first MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE with MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:APPALLING

  Domestic and some other start animals have specific names for members of the female sex. (base and civforge animals)

  Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram.

  Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram.


------

Hope you enjoy
Drayath

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

------

31.12 V3 (20/08/10)
- Added: ExpandRawTags tool, helper tool to merge mods together. Ensure every tag in raws is in on a separate line (indentation retained as per unexpanded line)
- Added: Drayaths Burnstuff addon
- Added: Drayaths Stone Crushing workshop
- Added: Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram
- Added: Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram
- Added: Allow trophies of enemies
- Added: Plant grow times significantly increased (especially vanilla plants)
- Added: Ranged ammo and whips are affected by armour slightly more
- Updated civforge: 2.22 => 2.3 TEST
- Updated Higher Learning Mod 2.0.1 => 2.1
- Updated Gem Splitting Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts, made reactions automatic, tweaks to output ammounts)
- Updated Seed Brewery Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts)
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v01 => 0.31.12v03
- Fixed: Keyboard shortcuts to crematorium reactions
- Fixed: Tidy up of entity_default file and comments. Each mod listed above is in a separate block to allow easy removal/changes.
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack was not using transparent background for graphics (show as purple squares in game).
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack some animals specified incorrectly: Cave Crab, Chicken
- Doc: Added display cases to readme.

31.12 V2 (26/07/10)
- Added: Drayaths Seed Brewery
- Added: Female caste names for common animals
- Updated civforge: 2.21 => 2.22
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v00 => 0.31.12v01
- Fixed: Errors from Civilization Forge Graphics Pack logged to errorlog.txt
- Fixed: Missed the higher learning mod entries from the entity_default.txt file!

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 24, 2010, 05:08:31 pm

Quote from: drayath on August 20, 2010, 11:59:36 am

If anyone wants to test civforge 2.3 TEST with graphics (and some other tweaks) try this:

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

Hopefully after civforge 2.3, next version of df and the significant graphics pack update this should allow (text can use a separate ttf font instead of the graphics tiles, + other features) I will have something ready to go on the first post if that offer is still open.

readme

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dwarf Fortress 31.12 (win-graphics)
  by
Toady One

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/

------
Graphics Sets

  Phoebus Graphic Set 0.31.12v03 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57557.0]
    - Meld tileset enabled (more subtle rock symbols), see phoebus readme for information on the alternatives included.

  Civilization Forge Graphics Pack by Undeadstag [http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1119]
    - Drayaths fixes so that the graphics have a proper transparent background. (I.e. the purple square background in game)
    - Drayaths fixes so that nothing reported to the errorlog.txt file.
    - PLEASE REPORT any creatures you see not using graphics. I'm not going to attempt to draw anything, but can at least use an appropiate existing image for it.
    - Known Issue: None of the new primitive civs or beastmen have any graphics.

  Drayaths mods to civforge to use Phoebus graphics for all non-creature civ forge additions.
    - No new graphics have been added for this, but all new minerals/gems use appropiate(ish) graphics and in use groups of minerals seems to stand out from there surroundings.
    - Known issue: punctuation in words (language_*.txt files) for the new races gets converted into various odd symbols. Next version of dwarf fortress should be splitting out the text and graphics to resolve this.

-------
Mods

  Civilization Forge 2.30 TEST by Mephansteras [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.0]
    - All primitive civilizations and beastman have been activated.
    - Reduced mineral availability not enabled.
    - Large map template included, generate a map with most civs still alive. (addition start civs, generation ends at year 250, some other tweaks)
    - Drayaths tweaks so Ravens occur less frequently (too much job cancelation spam when doing outside constuction) but it tamed can now be trained as Hunting Ravens!

  Dwarven Higher Learning Mod by Shukaro (v2.1) [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60853.msg1377358]
    - Drayaths fixes for some typos in the reactions.
 
  Crematorium Workshop by Lazureus [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54058.msg1159978]
    - Drayaths tweaks to add Magma Crematorium, normal crematorium now needs fuel, new reactions to burn fat/tallow, outputs tweaked
    - Drayaths fixes to added keyboard shortcuts to reactions
 
  Profits Stone Annihilator (2.00.000)
    - Drayaths tweaks to support civforge stone types.

  NoExotics by madk [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59411.msg1332644#msg1332644]
    - THIS HAS NOT BEEN RUN. Run to train exotic animal without dungeon master.

  Drayaths Stone Crusher Workshop
    -  Crush selected types of boulders into bags of sand. Allows glassworking on a sandless map.
    -  1 boulder (of any type) + empty bag => bag of sand.

  Drayaths Gem Splitting Workshop v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62608.0]
    - New mod, allow the cutting of large gems and gem crafts into a number of small gems.
    - If you have a legendary gemcutter this can result in significantly more gems as they produce more gem crafts.
      - Uses Gem Cutting skills (only affects speed)
      - Crown => 5 small gems
      - Scepter => 4 small gems
      - Figurine, Large Gem  => 3 small gems
      - Earring, Amulet, Ring, Braclet => 2 small gems

  Drayaths Seed Brewery v2 [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62433.msg1431166#msg1431166]
    - New mod, allows brewing of seeds directly to alcohol.
    - Each brew operation uses up 5 seeds of the appropriate type.
    - Once 25 seeds have been used you will get a barrel containing 25 of the appropriate alcohol.
    - If a plant does not normally produce alcohol you will get sewer brew.
    - Use to safely reduce your seed stockpiles and recover bags and space (e.g. use job manager to brew 20 pig tail seed jobs will consume 100 pig tail seeds and produce 4x25 dwarven beer)
    - Support for the civforge plants.

  Drayaths Burnstuff addon v1
    - New mod, most wooden items (e.g. barrels, boxes, catapult parts) can be burnt in the civforge/genesis/ironworks 'Charcoal Furnace' to produce charcoal. Clear out low quality wooden item, or burn some of the tat from elven caravans.
    - Existing reaction is 1 wood = 2 charcoal
    - New reactions : 1 wood + 2 small wooden items = 3 charcoal  (weapons, armour, buckets, splints, crutches)
    - New reactions: 1 wood + 1 large wooden item = 3 charcoal (barrel, bed, bins, blocks, boxes, cabinet, cages, chairs, doors, pipe sections, statues, tables, seige engine parts/ammo, trap components, weapon/armourstand,
    - Burning arrows is not supported

  Drayaths Plant Grow times increased significantly
    - Weeds=500 (rat weed, slime mould) [did not exist]
    - Fast=800 (plump helmet, pig tail, rope reed, oil nut) [was 300]
    - Normal=1200 (most plants) [was 500]
    - Slow=2000 (quarry bush, cinamon, black pepper) [quarry bush was 800]
    - Genarally vanilla plants have more than doubled, civforge plants have been tweaked.
    - 1 farmer will still produce the same ammount of plants, but will need more fields and more fertilizer.

  Drayaths Weapon Tweaks
    - Lowered ranged weapon damage. Still high (and iron bolt to the head/throat will usally kill through any armor)
    - Other than lucky shots any metal armor help greatly (most shots go from chips bone to bruises fat/skin)
    - Armor of better metals only seems to help a little, civforge heavy armors only seem to help a little.

  Unknowns Display Case Mod
    - Weapon, Armor and General display cases. Finally something useful to do with your useless artifacts.

  Use of enemy bones (e.g. goblins) and skull totems now allowed.
    - If you dont want this, in entity_default.txt replace the first MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE with MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:APPALLING

  Domestic and some other start animals have specific names for members of the female sex. (base and civforge animals)

  Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram.

  Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram.


------

Hope you enjoy
Drayath

http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html

------

31.12 V3 (20/08/10)
- Added: ExpandRawTags tool, helper tool to merge mods together. Ensure every tag in raws is in on a separate line (indentation retained as per unexpanded line)
- Added: Drayaths Burnstuff addon
- Added: Drayaths Stone Crushing workshop
- Added: Drayaths Civforge alchemy diagram
- Added: Unknowns core dwarf fortress production diagram
- Added: Allow trophies of enemies
- Added: Plant grow times significantly increased (especially vanilla plants)
- Added: Ranged ammo and whips are affected by armour slightly more
- Updated civforge: 2.22 => 2.3 TEST
- Updated Higher Learning Mod 2.0.1 => 2.1
- Updated Gem Splitting Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts, made reactions automatic, tweaks to output ammounts)
- Updated Seed Brewery Workshop v1 => v2 (added keyboard short cuts)
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v01 => 0.31.12v03
- Fixed: Keyboard shortcuts to crematorium reactions
- Fixed: Tidy up of entity_default file and comments. Each mod listed above is in a separate block to allow easy removal/changes.
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack was not using transparent background for graphics (show as purple squares in game).
- Fixed: Civforge Graphics Pack some animals specified incorrectly: Cave Crab, Chicken
- Doc: Added display cases to readme.

31.12 V2 (26/07/10)
- Added: Drayaths Seed Brewery
- Added: Female caste names for common animals
- Updated civforge: 2.21 => 2.22
- Updated Phoebus Graphic Set: 0.31.12v00 => 0.31.12v01
- Fixed: Errors from Civilization Forge Graphics Pack logged to errorlog.txt
- Fixed: Missed the higher learning mod entries from the entity_default.txt file!

Question on this. Will this pack work properly with graphics off and the default tileset, or did you do remapping like the graphic versions of Genesis? I like the package, but I don't particularly like the graphical tiles.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Gearheart on August 25, 2010, 05:29:12 pm

I really like the additions to the game made by this package, the new races especially, but the graphics change throws me off a bit. It's not bad, quite the opposite, but I'm so used to using Phoebus that it all just seems a bit strange.

Eh, guess I'll have to deal with it though, because the additions are totally worth me being a little uncomfortable about graphics.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: drayath on August 25, 2010, 07:14:00 pm

Very quickly before i head to bed, at the moment there is not a complete set not using graphics, but;

All workshops and reactions are in separate files and are graphic independent, if you take the core civforge 2.30 TEST pack as the base, then add/replace the following files from my pack into its raw folder:

building_crematorium.txt
building_crushstone.txt
building_destroystone.txt
building_display_case.txt
building_distillseed.txt
building_gemsplitter.txt
building_library.txt

entity_default.txt

item_ammo.txt
item_ammo_cf.txt
item_armor.txt
item_armor_cf.txt
item_library.txt
item_weapon.txt
item_weapon_cf.txt

reaction_crematorium.txt
reaction_crushstone.txt
reaction_destillseed.txt
reaction_destillseed_cf_addon.txt
reaction_destroystone.txt
reaction_ironworks_cf_burnstuff_addon.txt
reaction_library.txt
reaction_nickelscrew.txt
reaction_splitgem.txt

This should get you all changes except the plant growth time modifications, for them you would have to copy the new grow time across manually (plant graphic specifications are changed as well as the grow time in my version)

plant_cf.txt
plant_standard.txt

If you want the custom map copy across:

data/init/worldgen.txt

Finally you probably want to grab the _Documentation folder for the alchemy/production diagrams.

--

Untested but should work as each item was added separately when something irritated me.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Gearheart on August 25, 2010, 08:32:51 pm

Thanks, now I can get the best of both worlds.

I appreciate the help.

In all actuallity, I'm fairly new to this, and don't understand the quirks of modding, if there are any, so don't take offense to my asking, but is there any possibility of all those alchemical rocks/workshops being rendered graphicless? Or indeed, altered to fit the Phoebus set?

I'd really love to play around with them a bit, but I simply cannot adjust to a new graphic set. Call me stubborn, but I'm too used to that tileset by now.

Again, I don't mean to impose, just curious is all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: vhappylurker on August 26, 2010, 08:42:50 pm

Downloaded both the regular version and drayath's tweaked version. This sounds like FUN.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: negorath on August 27, 2010, 06:36:06 am

My fortress is now under siege by no less than 5 civs, definitely brings on the Fun, but a bit extreme perhaps? :p

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 27, 2010, 09:26:03 am

It can get a bit brutal. But I guess that's what magma is for.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: tigervx on August 31, 2010, 01:28:36 am

Chiming in here to note that me and all my clan mates are currently hooked on your mod, we just love the complexity and variety that it adds to dwarf fortress. I currently have a 90+ dwarf fortress that is constantly under siege by at least 4 armies at a time like the previous poster, maybe next time I'll let some of the races die out during world gen since I tried so hard this time to keep them all alive  :P Luckily my wrought iron metal industry is keeping up well enough to defend me with the aid of many traps and crossbow defensive towers,.

I have to say I hate the sand raiders the worst, they are incredibly difficult to fight and always sneak. Runner ups are Chaos Dwarves for having trap avoid. My fortress is a battlefield since I used to get caravans that would get ambushed and multiple caravans would fight multiple ambushes, resulting in death all around my castle. Eventually the good races would lay siege to me to try and get revenge for their dead diplomats, only to spawn inside evil sieges and... Well, the entire map is basically a battlefield. There's even random kobold and jawa thieves running around stripping the dead and stealing their items.

Some fun things to report, on embark the bugbears were at war with the dwarves for no particular reason, with the big red WAR letters next to the Bugbear civ. A general of their civilization even came on map leading a bugbear host mounted on land striders, a fucking dwarf! Filthy traitor. Also I've been seeing a lot of frost giants leading chaos dwarves and giant ants being used as mounts. It seems like all the new races are doing fine. I'd give alchemy a go, but the constant sieging doesn't allow for such luxuries, and I dont have the ingredients anyways for half the stuff. Keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 31, 2010, 10:04:22 am

Sounds like things are working more or less as intended. Glad you're enjoying the mod!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Asagi on September 05, 2010, 11:03:04 am

Don't know if this has been posted in this thread but, I'm unable to plan oil nut seeds above or below ground during any season.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 05, 2010, 11:10:32 am

Probably the wrong biome for them. Did you trade for them or did you pick them?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Asagi on September 05, 2010, 12:07:36 pm

I brought them on embark, its a hot sinister grassland. I also noticed I'm not able to make Obsidian a non economic stone, it isn't even on the list.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 05, 2010, 01:23:04 pm

Yeah, Oil Nuts won't grow there.

The Obsidian thing is a bug with DF in general.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 09, 2010, 12:25:57 pm

Sorry for the lack of updates, guys. I've been horribly busy and haven't had much time to even play DF, let alone do any modding.

I'm considering just releasing 2.3 as-is, although I may have to rework everything once Toady releases the next version of DF.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 01:00:53 pm

I think you can try to "fix" the obsidian by making a reaction which is not used anywhere. I have to test it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 09, 2010, 01:40:47 pm

Hmm, that's an idea. I'll try that.

But if you get a chance to try it before me, let me know if it works. :)

Even if I need a place where it is used, I can do that. Some interesting Alchemy reaction or something.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on September 09, 2010, 02:03:43 pm

Is it known that imported stone can't be used in alchemy reactions? I think it might've even been mentioned before.

Though even some bauxite of my own can't be processed into alum anymore, after I had rebuilt my magma labs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 09, 2010, 02:26:48 pm

Imported stone should work just fine. Are you sure you have everything you need? Enough jars and all that? Some reactions take up to 5 alchemical jars.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on September 09, 2010, 02:30:41 pm

Am I just a retard, or is there no way to forge weapons and armor? I'm not finding the option to do so. Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Found it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 06:01:04 pm

I don't really have time right now because I try to make CivForge to work with Ironhand, but was it reported that you have entity_tainted_dwarf_cf.txt and entity_chaos_dwarf_cf.txt with the same entities?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 06:15:38 pm

I've used Drayath's graphical compilation and set up all necessary files to use the mod with Ironhand's pack.

Here you can find a pre-packaged version: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3090. I just thought that it can expand your player base, Mephansteras. Your mod is great, but not everyone plays with ASCII and not everyone wants to learn how to set up the graphics correctly, and some people are too used to some specific tilesets. So, here it goes :).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 09, 2010, 06:18:23 pm

Quote from: Deon on September 09, 2010, 06:01:04 pm

I don't really have time right now because I try to make CivForge to work with Ironhand, but was it reported that you have entity_tainted_dwarf_cf.txt and entity_chaos_dwarf_cf.txt with the same entities?

The tainted dwarf file can, and should, be removed.

And I don't mind at all, Deon. The more pre-packaged versions the better, I imagine. I just haven't managed to get around to messing with it myself.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 06:48:40 pm

Ehh, I removed the chaos dwarf file in the prepackaged version instead. Is that bad? Should I reupload it? The "tainted" file seemed to cause no errors but maybe it has some entity flaws?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 09, 2010, 07:32:56 pm

I think the tainted dwarf file is outdated, so the chaos one is better. I don't think it would cause problems, per se, but it's the wrong file.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 09, 2010, 09:38:50 pm

Okay, I will update it soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Niveras on September 09, 2010, 11:05:28 pm

Heh. I just had 3 squads of masterful steel equipped dwarves beating on a chaos dwarf for, like, 5 days. The only damage they managed to do was some bruising to his limbs, some cutting around his toes... and to lop off his hands. His orichalcum armor was constantly deflecting all other attacks, no one could get a deathblow in. I finally decided to just take my squads off duty to let him die of infection, but the chaos dwarf finally got up and staggered off the map.

Without his hands. I am imagining him something akin to Dooku in the beginning of Return of the Sith (just before he gets killed, anyway), completely depressed about the loss of his hands. But given this is Dwarf Fortress he'll probably come back with two daggers jammed into his stumps.

Guess it's time to upgrade my weapons to void crystal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on September 09, 2010, 11:26:02 pm

Quote from: Deon on September 09, 2010, 06:15:38 pm

I've used Drayath's graphical compilation and set up all necessary files to use the mod with Ironhand's pack.

Here you can find a pre-packaged version: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3090. I just thought that it can expand your player base, Mephansteras. Your mod is great, but not everyone plays with ASCII and not everyone wants to learn how to set up the graphics correctly, and some people are too used to some specific tilesets. So, here it goes :).

I think I'm in love with you. Thank you SO much for this! I love the Civmod, but plugging through tons of raws (when you've never done it before) to make it work with Ironhand seemed harsch >.<

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Grocer on September 10, 2010, 04:29:49 am

Couple years in with 2.3 Test and I've gotten jackal-, tiger-, wolf-, frog-, turtle-, lizard- and snakemen traders, and raccoon- and rat-thieves.   Silver and copper weapons exclusively which seemed a bit odd, I'd expected at least some wooden and bone weapons, for bows if nothing else.  A bow-lizard showed up wearing large giant desert scorpion fatty armor, which didn't seem right.

Questions:  what is soaproot, and how do I use it?  Some traders showed up with it, might have been hobgoblins.  How does devilwood differ from silverwood?

Overall the primitives seem really nice, they feel pretty good.  A jackalman latched onto a racconwoman's head and then shook her till the head popped off, which was pretty nice.  It'll be cool to see them differentiate more culturally once that civ stuff gets more fully into the main game.  Frogmen traders showing up loaded with lots of fish, tigermen with exotic leathers, jackalmen with fancy bonecrafts, that sort of thing.

Excellent mod, really great work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 10, 2010, 09:57:59 am

Didn't realize that soaproot was still in there. It's part of a non-fat soap I was working on for the elves, which I stopped working on once I realized that they wouldn't show up with it to trade anyway. Might get back around to it at some point, but I'll probably remove it from 2.3 for the actual release.

Devilwood is similar to Silverwood, in that it is actually decent for weapons and armor, but not quite as good.

As for the primitive races using wood/bone, I don't seem to be able to do that at this point without preventing them from using metal at all. Pretty annoying, really. Hopefully Toady will give us more options there at some point.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Roses on September 13, 2010, 04:20:58 pm

Just got attacked by a 60 strong Chaos Dwarf siege with each one riding a different animal (although Rutherer is the most common). Their only leader attacked with them, the might Bearman wearing nothing but a cloak. I felt bad for all those Chaos Dwarves...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 15, 2010, 12:19:08 pm

Well, with 31.13 out now I suppose I'll run some tests on it. I may have a few minor tweaks to do, but hopefully I'll be able to release 2.3 this week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 15, 2010, 12:23:17 pm

I've just merged Genesis and it requires only to remove [START_GROUP_NUMBER:X] in entity files and replace/change the inorganic_stone_mineral.txt (and if you had it unchanged, just replace it with new).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 15, 2010, 12:25:45 pm

Cool. Thanks, Deon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 15, 2010, 12:33:45 pm

I try to figure out are there old-styled towns for major locations... I don't want to see the shops gone :(.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 15, 2010, 12:34:28 pm

I think Toady said that they're out for the moment. They'll be back in eventually, but I think you're better off with 31.12 for adventure mode.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Deon on September 15, 2010, 12:42:30 pm

Yeah, I see it. I will upload two versions then, one for adventure and another for fortress :).

Right now it's impossible to find quest-givers in those hunderds of towns.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: midnightlupine on September 17, 2010, 05:04:33 pm

Okay, I had a look through this forum, and I couldn't see anything on the topic.
But for whatever reason I am not receiving any traders. I only get two migrant parties so I am under the assumption that I've screwed up under the civilization section. Pressing 'c' does however show that my mountainhomes parent city is still alive. But I do not get any traders, no prompts saying I don't have a trade depot, nothing. It's been four years in game, and nobody has come. I don't get goblin thieves [which is nice], but I've realized that I'm the only civilization recognized.
I am not sure if there is something I've installed badly with the mod. I'm using 0.30.12. My guess is I've made a newbie error somewhere without realizing. Has anybody else had this kind of problem, and do they know of any way to fix it? I do have Mayday's tileset, as well as Undseadstag's ontop of it.
You'll have to forgive me, I'm new to the whole dwarf fortress thing, I've only got some basic experience modding games like Oblivion. So, did I do something incredibly obvious?
Please help my dwarves are starving, and there is little to eat or grow within the pantry.
That and I'm pretty sure my dwarves are starting to become a little inbred... it's disconcerting.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 17, 2010, 05:18:12 pm

Sounds like you embarked on an area with no access to outside civs. An enclosed valley or island will do that.

As for your parent civ, does it have any members listed? A king or queen, perhaps? If not, you probably have a dead civ even though it shows up as existing.

If it's not dead, you *should* be getting plenty of migrants and traders.

As for the starvation issue, you probably need to brave the caverns. Should be plenty of muddy ground down there to grow stuff on, as well as plants to pick and animals to hunt. It's dangerous, so you'll want to wall of a safe section that nothing can get in to as well as trap the corridors leading to your main fortress. But no outpost should starve if it can dig.

Also, I recommend bringing chickens along. They're dirt cheap and bread fast, and a few of them on embark can breed a large enough population to feed lots of dwarves.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: midnightlupine on September 21, 2010, 06:27:50 pm

Cheers, followed your advice, took over a cavern and have a large plantation of plump helmets. I'm not in the middle of a valley or island as far as I can tell... but oh well, it might just be dead.

I did have a titan wander into my outpost... but the inbreeding program must be paying off, cause I looked away for a brief moment and then on of my dwarf hicks came dragging himself into my hospital, covered in vomit and blood. Following the trail led me to the slain corpse of the hill titan with the hard to pronounce name.

So I must be doing something right... or terribly wrong.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 21, 2010, 06:34:16 pm

Hehe. Well, there should be plenty of fun to be had down in the caverns. And a fortress that has to breed it's future can be kind of cool. You get a lot of generational stories and since the game has rudimentary genetics you can actually track how the traits go from parent to child.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: demol on September 22, 2010, 02:25:53 am

Mephansteras, is your mod compatible with graphical mods?

For example, can i install it above MayDay's DFG? (yes, i can, but would it work properly?)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Moonshine Fox on September 22, 2010, 05:12:56 am

Quote from: demol on September 22, 2010, 02:25:53 am

Mephansteras, is your mod compatible with graphical mods?

For example, can i install it above MayDay's DFG? (yes, i can, but would it work properly?)

No, it wouldn't unfortunately. You'd have to do A LOT of merging RAWs to make it work. So far, we have a Phobeus set and an Ironhand set out there (someone did the work for you) but not Mayday as far as I am aware.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: demol on September 22, 2010, 06:47:59 am

Hmm, thank you.
New question.

Are there any irreducible obstacles to the installation of the CivForge and referred graph mods to the core of DFG?

I very appreciate it fulscreenness, and tripple-window structure, but can't understand interface-design of original DF to make the same things in it  (unlucky for me) :(

Did somebody try it?
((yes, block we roll, ball we pull)) :(

//

Do I understand correctly, that Phobeus and Ironhand sets ARE compatible? or i made a logical mistake.

O, yes. Found the ironhand-graphic version. thank you Deon!

Can't find Phobeus-graphic version to compare :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 22, 2010, 12:13:30 pm

There's probably a link to it somewhere in this thread. If not try doing a search for Civilization Forge (or maybe Civ Forge) and Phobeus. That should find it.

In general modding news, I've been pondering how to handle the Primitive Civs with the latest version. They're not a problem in a Large region, but they do make finding embark spots rather tricky in smaller worlds. I could move them to the caves, which would keep them from spreading out as much, but I'm not sure how much I like that option.

In amusing news, Turtlemen seem to be able to make settlements just about anywhere in the ocean they want, so you see their little 'farmed' areas all over the place out in the water. I guess they have a lot less competition out there....

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: demol on September 24, 2010, 11:05:33 pm

There is a real and strange problem with parent Civ.

three testruns:

Dwarves has "members" at start but at some moment (after first year, i think) they disappears.
In result: 6-9 migrants only, all arrive at first year. No dwarven caravans. No dwarven civ members.
But other (unmarked at first year) civs appearing, if not on island.

--
Thank you for mod

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2010, 01:21:34 am

Hmmm. Odd. Which version of DF is this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: demol on September 25, 2010, 05:48:19 am

Deon's "graphic pre-pack", 2.23 Civ Forge on DF version 0.31.12


After third year i enjoy the caravans from all continental civilisations, but excluding dwarven.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 25, 2010, 11:18:47 am

Ah, ok. That means you have a 'dead' home civ. Even though it technically shouldn't have any people at all you still get migrants for the first year for some reason.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Seriyu on September 26, 2010, 03:21:33 am

Where do you make Heavy Lamellar scale armor? I try to make it at the metalsmith's forge but I only get up to scale hauberk. Is there a certain grade of material I need or something?

Looking through the raws, I see leather, but I have 5 leather. What am I missing?

Also I appreciate the material notes in the raws for them, while I'm here.

Edit: Nevermind, been reading through the thread, and saw the "only 4 armor types" thing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Morrigi on October 11, 2010, 02:38:11 am

*poke* Is this thing still alive?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2010, 11:40:12 am

Yeah, sorry about the lack of updates. Things have been a bit hectic.

I'm going to try to get the raws fixed up for 31.16 and get 2.3 out in the next few days.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 13, 2010, 04:59:16 pm

Update: Finished getting all the migrations done. Now I just need to run some tests to make sure nothing is horribly broken and I'll be able to release the mod. Should be up tomorrow, I think.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 14, 2010, 05:59:22 pm

Ok, Version 2.3 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is finally released.

Let me know if you find any bugs or issues.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: kilakan on October 14, 2010, 06:23:33 pm

awesomesauce, to bad I don't have time tonight.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 20, 2010, 04:47:35 pm

Anyone have any interesting stories from the latest version, yet?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Cheddarius on October 20, 2010, 05:31:34 pm

Hmmm. I haven't had the time for DF in a long while, but I might pick it up with this mod soon and try it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Cal on October 21, 2010, 10:33:59 am

Loved your mod in 40d, looking forward to testing it out again. I just picked DF back up after waiting for a while for most of the bugs to get worked out in .31. Someone needs to make a graphics pack for it again though! i don't think I'm skilled enough to do it myself, the last time i tried fixing things in a graphics pack that wasn't working with a mod it seriously screwed up my game.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2010, 12:14:46 pm

Check back through the thread. I'm pretty certain someone has gotten a graphics pack working for the current version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Manbearpigbear on October 22, 2010, 04:16:59 pm

I just got this today and started playing with it. So far it's been great and helped my game be a bit more fun and less dull with only the 3 main races!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: kasan on October 29, 2010, 02:28:00 pm

So I installed this the other day and finally have gotten around to playing a regen'd world with it.  Fortress has been going well and all the new flora and fauna have added more depth to my cooking as well as the rest of my experience.

However today was the 2nd caravan month in my game, and let me tell you...

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5563/ohshitcaravans.th.png) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/ohshitcaravans.png/)

This happened in the span of about 200 frames.  O.o  The Jakalmen and Tigerman arrived at my single depo at the same time and both unloaded their goods.

Is this normal for this many caravans to all decend on me at the same time?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 29, 2010, 02:35:44 pm

Yeah, it happens pretty often. No big deal, though, since the game handles it just fine. And with everyone there to compare against at once you can maximize your trades and it makes hauling stuff to the TD more efficient.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: vhappylurker on October 30, 2010, 12:08:43 am

Just wait till you get ambushes and sieges! 8D

Best thing about all those caravans (at least in the first couple of years) is that you can stock up on cheap leather, food, and copper. I've also had a beastman caravan bring animals, but that's only happened twice to me so far.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Seriyu on November 03, 2010, 07:20:15 pm

Was the bug where glass vials made at the glass furnace would be coal flasks instead fixed? I haven't tried yet but I'd like to know if I have to change the reactions before I get that far into this fort.  :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 03, 2010, 07:21:59 pm

According to the bug tracker that should have been fixed back in 31.13

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Seriyu on November 03, 2010, 07:45:17 pm

Oh, that's a bug with vanilla DF, I didn't know. At any rate I haven't updated yet, so thanks anyway. :p

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Grocer on November 10, 2010, 11:47:47 am

Is there a rundown on what environments the various civs and primitives require? I'm having trouble getting everyone to survive, but I think it's mostly a result of my messed up random worldgens.  I can add in more of particular types of biomes without too much trouble, I just need to know what to add.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2010, 12:45:32 pm

Forest, Plains, Tundra, and Mountains should give you pretty much everyone. A few races require strange stuff (Tigermen need tropical forests), but that'll get you most races.

It's rare for ALL of the races to survive to 1050, except on large worlds.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 10, 2010, 12:59:59 pm

I know swords aren't the best weapons against armor, but should no-quality bronze heavy lamellar be completely impenetrable to an artifact crucible steel falchion? Even the gauntlets the goblins were wearing were invincible, and the sword only worked on bare flesh.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2010, 01:01:52 pm

That's bizarre. Crucible steel should slice through bronze easily.

Hmm. Maybe something changed? I'll play around with it in the arena. Could just be horrible luck on your part, but a falchion is like an axe. It should penetrate armor better than a regular sword.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 10, 2010, 01:09:40 pm

Does weapon skill play a part? The dwarf was only Competent.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2010, 01:11:14 pm

Hmm. Maybe? I know Toady's new combat code has a concept of how 'square' that blow lands. If that's in the current version that could effect how often armor is penetrated. I'll test that out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Niveras on November 11, 2010, 09:36:56 am

I had a similar issue with (gold, I think it was) lamellar armor in the last game I played; it's been a while, but I think I had two full groups of dwarves equipped in masterful steel weapons beat on something for a couple days. The armor was constantly deflecting attacks, except for its hands. Not sure what version this was but it was probably two months back; been caught up in other things and have just been waiting for the next DF release.

Actually, seems I posted about it already:

Quote

Heh. I just had 3 squads of masterful steel equipped dwarves beating on a chaos dwarf for, like, 5 days. The only damage they managed to do was some bruising to his limbs, some cutting around his toes... and to lop off his hands. His orichalcum armor was constantly deflecting all other attacks, no one could get a deathblow in. I finally decided to just take my squads off duty to let him die of infection, but the chaos dwarf finally got up and staggered off the map.

Without his hands. I am imagining him something akin to Dooku in the beginning of Return of the Sith (just before he gets killed, anyway), completely depressed about the loss of his hands. But given this is Dwarf Fortress he'll probably come back with two daggers jammed into his stumps.

Guess it's time to upgrade my weapons to void crystal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 11, 2010, 10:29:37 am

Ok, well that one isn't that bad. Orichalcum is one of the best materials in the game. Warhammers would probably have been your best bet to kill him, but even that might be iffy. Void Crystal War Hammer should work ok.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: RetSpline on November 12, 2010, 10:35:25 pm

So I took a look at the alchemy instructions, interesting stuff. Decided I should get working on a glass industry, so I make a zone over some sand tiles, but it says it can't be used for sand collection. It's just a Yellow Sand Cavern Floor. Is there something I'm missing here to be able to gather sand? I'm pretty sure I have enough bags, but the Gather Sand task at the Glassworks just gives me a lot of errors about no suitable location being available.

In short: can I gather sand from yellow sand floors?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 13, 2010, 01:13:58 am

You should be able to.

Can your dwarves get there?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2010, 01:52:14 am

Did the new version break anything in this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: RetSpline on November 13, 2010, 01:57:38 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on November 13, 2010, 01:13:58 am

You should be able to.

Can your dwarves get there?

Yup. I just had my miners dig out an area of sand and, while they were standing there, tried to make a Sand Gathering zone. Didn't work. I've also tried aboveground, with the same results.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 13, 2010, 10:44:21 am

@RetSpline: Strange. I'll have to try sand gathering to check, but that shouldn't be an issue with the mod. I didn't do anything to sand.


@Lord Shonus: Sadly, I haven't had a chance to merge things in yet since I managed to get sick. There were changes to a few files that could cause problems, though. Plus, I think there are some new civ tags that we'll want added in. I don't know if lacking those would be a problem or just not give good adventuring results, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Deon on November 13, 2010, 11:19:39 am

I wanted to ask, did you notice the crashing behavior during the world generation? I can make worlds easily in vanilla with 3.17, but with any of my major mods the worldgen is much slower now and often crashes without any visible errors.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: kilakan on November 13, 2010, 01:51:30 pm

I find without pop cap, people reproduce at an insane rate, stopped a medium create new world now, world at year 100 and it had 25,0000 people.... set a pop cap at 18,000 and have yet to crash even at year 1000

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 13, 2010, 02:12:59 pm

Quote from: kilakan on November 13, 2010, 01:51:30 pm

25,0000

Is that 25k or 250k?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: kilakan on November 13, 2010, 05:53:08 pm

ah shit 25k

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: RetSpline on November 14, 2010, 01:18:21 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on November 13, 2010, 10:44:21 am

@RetSpline: Strange. I'll have to try sand gathering to check, but that shouldn't be an issue with the mod. I didn't do anything to sand.


@Lord Shonus: Sadly, I haven't had a chance to merge things in yet since I managed to get sick. There were changes to a few files that could cause problems, though. Plus, I think there are some new civ tags that we'll want added in. I don't know if lacking those would be a problem or just not give good adventuring results, though.

Ah, think I figured it out. Apparently, removing the [AQUIFER] tag from sand soil layers prevents you from gathering sand. I put it back in and sand works now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: crappypappy on November 14, 2010, 01:54:54 am

quick question is there a list up of the details on the new metals and stuff u added in? was wondering cause uve got all of them some saying way better then steel some say just a bit better and such but is there anything like the weapon and armour quality?

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Metals

was just wondering cause ive got my commander in a void crystal breastplate and a blood crystal battle axe with a royal bronze helm (no idea where igot them from though) and for all i know they could be worse better or not functional for weapons and armour. i mean they sound like cool things to use but it can sound as cool as it wants but for all i know paper could make better armour. (not really just an example)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 14, 2010, 10:50:40 am

I could put up something with the values, I suppose, though it won't mean much to most people. Especially since some things, like the Crystals, are set up very differently from the iron/bronze style metals.

In your case, Void Crystal is awesome (better than steel in pretty much every way) and Royal Bronze is better than Bronze by a good bit but not quite as good as steel.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: crappypappy on November 14, 2010, 12:56:25 pm

lol alright thank u and sry what about the blood crystal battle axe? idk know where they came from though is the funny thing i gave em to my commander and he shortly there after went insane ripped one of my admins arms off and then stripped. although now hes back to his normal blood thirsty self although his crazy ass wont use the axe instead he's been eating all my enemys literally he keeps taking bites out of them he wont shield bash em or attack em with the axe well no he does somtimes. usually though he chases them around the map eating them. u can always tell where hes been too theres a trail of blood everywhere from his enemys. sry bout the bird walk. could u make somthing like those lists or just like the thing at the very bottom? terrible poor fair good better best. or somthing like that that

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 14, 2010, 02:59:11 pm

I could probably do something like that.

Oh, and Blood Crystal makes for decent weapons. Not awesome, but better than Bronze or Iron.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: crappypappy on November 14, 2010, 04:22:34 pm

lol i notced meng has been goin to town with it hes got over 50 kills so far and idk why are the crystals lighter then metals? cause he out runs everything

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Deon on November 14, 2010, 04:36:55 pm

They are lighter because they have lesser density. Also not all metals, adamantine is lighter.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: crappypappy on November 16, 2010, 02:53:46 pm

nother question are these new materials u added in good for traps cause i just remember that glass is broken as a trap material but i think i heard it used to be great.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 16, 2010, 03:23:58 pm

Glass used to be ok, since it was 50% the strength of iron. So it didn't kill things that effectively, but it was cheap and easy to mass produce if you had magma and sand.

As for the new materials, yeah, they should be fine. At least as good as they're stated to be for weapons, at least. I wouldn't bother making levisium hammers or anything like that, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: crappypappy on November 16, 2010, 05:48:58 pm

lol k

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: kilakan on November 16, 2010, 06:01:31 pm

when shall this be good for .18?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 16, 2010, 06:48:44 pm

Probably be a few days. I've been horribly busy at work this week and I was sick last week, so I just haven't had the time to go in and do anything with it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: vhappylurker on November 17, 2010, 01:23:09 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on November 16, 2010, 06:48:44 pm

Probably be a few days. I've been horribly busy at work this week and I was sick last week, so I just haven't had the time to go in and do anything with it.

Hey it's cool. Just take your time with it. Love this mod, so it'll be worth the wait.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 17, 2010, 07:49:22 am

Do you plan to do the CITY fix temporarily?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 17, 2010, 11:32:39 am

Quote from: Lord Shonus on November 17, 2010, 07:49:22 am

Do you plan to do the CITY fix temporarily?

Which one is that?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 17, 2010, 12:24:58 pm

Mountainhomes are not currently working, so only CITY creatures have settlements in adventure mode right now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 17, 2010, 12:56:35 pm

Ah. Yeah, I see what you mean.

I could probably do an Adventure Mod version as well as the normal one, with all civs using Cities. It'd be simple enough.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 17, 2010, 04:23:56 pm

Hey Meph! Did you ever get out a "slimmed down" version of your mod? The one that JUSTS adds beastmen and Satyrs into the game?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 17, 2010, 05:31:23 pm

I have not, no.

Sorry, been busy with other things.

Getting stand-alone beastmen is easy. They don't need much from the rest of the mod. I'd have to make a Satyr civ, but that wouldn't take too long I suppose.

I doubt I'll have anything out this week with how work is going, but I'll try to get that and the main mod up to 31.18 out next week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 17, 2010, 08:34:43 pm

Its no worries mate, I know how busy you are.  And there was actually a Satyr mod already made a while ago you could incorporate, I was mostly responsible for it so you can use it in your own mod with my say so :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 18, 2010, 07:51:37 am

Also, not to nag, but did you give any thought to incorporating the Primitive Weapons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62199.msg1423913#msg1423913) mod I suggested a long time ago?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 18, 2010, 07:47:24 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on November 18, 2010, 07:51:37 am

Also, not to nag, but did you give any thought to incorporating the Primitive Weapons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62199.msg1423913#msg1423913) mod I suggested a long time ago?

Ah, yes. I'll have to get those added in as well.

Oh, and I looked into the issue with the Crucible Steel Falchion. Really not sure what happened. When I did my tests in the arena the group with the Crucible weapons would always soundly trounce the group with Bronze weapons. Most of the time without any casualties whatsoever.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 19, 2010, 09:10:24 am

It must have been a weapon skill thing, then.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Cal on November 19, 2010, 05:20:14 pm

Thanks for pointing me towards the graphics, Mephansteras. It actually helped me learn a bit because some of the stone was tough for me to make out so I mixed in some of the stone graphics from Beefmo (the ones with extra symbols based off of how valuable the ore was and if it was iron producing or not [I honestly don't know if his was the first to do that but his was where i took them from]) and i managed to get it all working together flawlessly. Looking forward to the .18 update even though i'll have to re-edit my raws. It'll be easier though now that I've got a base to work from.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Johnfalcon99977 on November 20, 2010, 10:10:32 pm

Please oh please tell me this is going to work with the new verison soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 21, 2010, 12:28:24 am

Quote from: Johnfalcon99977 on November 20, 2010, 10:10:32 pm

Please oh please tell me this is going to work with the new verison soon.

It will. Hopefully Monday.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.3 Primitive Civilzations released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 23, 2010, 02:07:30 pm

Ok, 2.31 is now uploaded (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277)! It just brings the mod up to date with 31.18. I'll work on an Adventurer pack that makes all civs use towns and see about the other requests next. But I wanted to get something out so people had something to work with.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on November 24, 2010, 05:39:25 am

What a lovely thing to see first thing in the morning! Thanks, Mephansteras!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Axecleaver on November 24, 2010, 01:47:11 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 11, 2010, 04:17:41 pm

Foxes are standard DF animals, and not normally domesticated, but I guess I could change them.

Actually, the domestication of foxes is redundant.

There was a well published Russian study on the domestication of foxes as succeeding generations were raised for fur. Apparently, as the offspring became more docile their endocrine system changed (less adrenalin, for one). This changed the expression of epigenomes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics) to the point that they started looking less like foxes and more and more like common dogs, complete with floppy ears. This was a problem for the fur trade since their fur no longer resembled that of a wild fox.

Quote from: Prepaid Lenin on August 09, 2010, 01:43:57 pm

One other thing that is bugging me is how impossible it is to defend caravans. I only ever trade with the yearly dwarven elixer convoy, but the moment they come on the map they get ambushed because 1 or 2 groups from every hostile species spawn with them.

Quote from: drayath on August 17, 2010, 03:02:08 pm

With all primitive races on you seem to get 2-3 years before chaos strikes. Due to large amount of ambushers combined with large amounts of caravans to be killed you quickly upset some->most of the friendly/neutral civs.

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 18, 2010, 12:32:38 pm

Also, you might find *all* of the primitive civs a bit excessive. But I suppose that's just more opportunity for fun.

No offense, but aren't these signs that things are out of balance? Not only does this make this significantly more difficult than vanilla DF, but after a short while you won't have any traders coming to trade. Considering how useful trade can be sometimes, esp. if you're lacking certain things, this could be a major handicap.

Quote from: kilakan on August 18, 2010, 01:31:46 pm

I rather like having huge hordes of enemies, find it a challenge, also am planning on pissing off any of those who trade so they attack too.

Depends on one's definition of fun. And I'm sure it is, for a while. But this situation defeats the whole purpose of traders, which is to have someone to trade good with.

Quote from: tigervx on August 31, 2010, 01:28:36 am

I'd give alchemy a go, but the constant sieging doesn't allow for such luxuries...

May I propose that the amount of ambushers be reduced? Or, perhaps a separate file and/or instructions could be included on how to do this?

I realize people are different. Some players feel this mod is fine as it is, while I see some others mention how difficult it tends to make things. It's just too bad mods don't have a customization window or an init file that allows adjustment of difficulty and turning certain features on / off.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Urist McUristy on November 28, 2010, 06:05:21 pm

What is the use of blazing incendium other than to burn the user? It doesn't affect enemies whenever I stab them and if I pick it up it scorches my hands, even when I am wearing glacium gauntlets. I'm I doing something wrong?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 28, 2010, 06:30:36 pm

Eventually, it will be used by high-temperature creatures.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.23 Alchemy released!
Post by: Axecleaver on November 29, 2010, 02:40:13 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 30, 2010, 07:03:28 pm

Snakemen are pretty frightening, copper weapons notwithstanding. They tend to have large territories. The downside to this is that the Sand Raiders tend to snatch a bunch of them. Then you get the Sand Raiders mostly composed of iron-clad snakemen. Scary.

Not as scary as the one map I let gen to 2000, though. It was mostly 2 Sand Raider empires made up of Frost Giants, a Frost Giant Civ, and one lonely Dwarven Civ who I guess was just ignored. Seriously, one of the Sand Raider empires was composed of over 4000 Frost Giants! It's no wonder they smashed everyone else.

Quote from: Dohon on July 31, 2010, 03:39:08 am

Sand Raiders ARE scary! I knew Snatchers were a pain in the backside, but having those little buggers bring up Frost Giants and armoured Snakemen ... I sense much Dwarf Slaughter.

I'm thinking that Sand Raiders are way too strong with their snatching ability. If you remove this ability, then they should be much more reasonably balanced.
As for Snakemen and Frost giants, the biggest issue seems to be when they get snatched by others. Is there some way to increase the baby to adult maturation for these two races? Perhaps it should take at least 50 years for a Frost Giant to reach adulthood? And maybe 25 or more years for Snakemen? These are big, strong races, so it should take much longer for them to grow and their numbers should be small. Frost giants will wipe the floor with most races. Dwarves, in comparison, are very small and super weaklings. So dwarves should grow up fast and be able to breed like rabbits just to have a chance at survival. (As a general rule, smaller creatures tend to have shorter gestation cycles, more offspring, and faster maturation. For instance, the breeding onset in mice is about 50 days.)

BTW: Your solution for having snakemen so strong was to limit them to copper stuff. Alternatively, maybe snakemen should be buffed up slightly and be too proud to use armor (and/or weapons) and rely on their natural scale hide (or wrestling, biting & claws)? Or maybe their scaly, snake-like body makes wearing armor uncomfortable. (Or their claws makes using weapons somewhat uncomfortable?) That way, even if they are snatched, they can't be equipped with steel or better armor (/weapons).

Quote from: kilakan on August 03, 2010, 12:23:11 pm

Quote from: bobbens on August 03, 2010, 10:49:21 am

I decided to give this mod a try (really like genesis, but thought more alchemy could be badass). However I'm having serious issues trying to get civilizations to survive in a medium region? Anyone have any advice besides just cut down the simulation time? With so much stuff it seems awfully hard to balance.

increase the number of civs to be seeded to 50, I always have them all with that.

Again, I don't mean to nag, but I see these things as signs this mod still has serious balance issues. I thought the whole point of adding lots of different races was to add variety? If a couple stronger races keep killing off and conquering the rest... isn't that a problem?
In my opinion, increasing the number of civs to seed is a workaround, not a fix. Anyway, doing that clutters up the history with an excess of violence and dead civs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on November 30, 2010, 07:48:26 am

It has nothing to do with weakness, actually, as the exact races that survive is mutable. The problem is that with so many races doing so many things, it's easy for any race to be overwhelmed in worldgen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2010, 10:42:40 am

Yeah, it's not that any given race is going to go extinct if you don't have enough, it's that some races will go extinct. I've seen pretty much every race end up dominant and every race end up gone. Except elves, who tend to just be on the 'gone' side of things. I think that'll probably be normal until Toady puts in some ways to really buff them that don't involve giving them metal. Silverwood helps, but isn't quiet abundant enough yet. I'll have to keep tweaking them.

As for the Snakemen, they already use pretty much no armor by themselves. It's when they're snatched that they become armor-wearing, iron-wielding doombringers. But there just isn't anything I can do about that since there is only one tag that regulates whether a creature can use items and if I take that away...they're really just glorified animals.

In any case, it's MUCH less of a problem now. Snatched creatures make up a small percentage of the overall population in the newer versions of DF so the they don't make as much of an impact. It was worse when the snatching civ tended to get replaced by whatever races it was snatching.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 30, 2010, 01:07:13 pm

Hey Meph, any update On the simplified "primitive civ's" mod?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2010, 01:16:11 pm

I'm doing some work on that today, actually.

I think it'll end up being a stand-alone Primitive Civs pack, with just the various civs and their attendant items. That'll make it easy for them to get used as a stand-alone mod or with other mods.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 30, 2010, 03:04:31 pm

Thanks!

Really thats all I ever wanted, some extra civs mostly so I have more people to trade with and to up the variety of people who may attack me :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vrga on December 02, 2010, 12:59:29 pm

i'm loving this mod, the sheer number of races running around trying to kill my fort and then realising "Hey, we dont like those sand raiders either, so lets go whack them first" is awesome :D



mbwahahahahahahahahhahah


in the three years i've been running this fort ingame, already 12 or so caravans have died outside my fort.



and all i can say is "FREE LOOT!" XD

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on December 02, 2010, 06:21:01 pm

Had a frogmen civ attacking the lizardmen & snakemen that came to trade. It was...odd.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 02, 2010, 06:22:25 pm

Are they at war?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Urist McUristy on December 02, 2010, 06:24:51 pm

Had frogmen, turtlemen, snakemen, hobgoblins and silver xelics come, at all once, from each corner of the map. None liked eachother much, and lets just say my marble walls in my depot look like bauxite.
EDIT: And lizard men.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 02, 2010, 06:32:45 pm

Hmmm. That's new. I may have to find a fix for this.

I'm ok with the 'Evil' races and the 'Good' races not getting along, but that's a bit ridiculous.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on December 02, 2010, 08:58:04 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on December 02, 2010, 06:22:25 pm

Are they at war?

I didn't see anything saying that they were. Didn't think to check before embarking. Just the first spring the frogmen arrived along with turtlemen, then I had the other two caravans show up and the frogmen went for blood. Happened the next year and now my current year none of them appeared.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 02, 2010, 09:08:24 pm

You can check who they're at war with on the civilizations screen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on December 05, 2010, 10:52:09 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on December 02, 2010, 09:08:24 pm

You can check who they're at war with on the civilizations screen.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: EvilJawa on December 07, 2010, 08:33:14 pm

just started playing this mod but i was wondering if anyone knew where i could find a good graphics pack for it

and i seem to get double's of certain ores, like two different stacks of andesite in my building materials list.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 08, 2010, 07:37:28 am

That's the filler stone. Material scarcity is bugged right now, so Meph rigged it to generate deposits of worthless stone in place of metal ore or gems. This helps reduce the massive overdose of resources.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 08, 2010, 07:53:15 am

Note that's is completely optional. So if you don't want it, just remove the inorganic_stone_filler_cf.txt file.

As for graphics, if you go back through the thread a bit there is a graphics pack that should work.

I really need to find it and put the link in the OP...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: L0master on December 10, 2010, 04:21:10 am

Questions.
1) Can I really plant any seed in any season? I mean I was unable to plant cave wheat in winter in vanilla DF.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 10, 2010, 10:59:36 am

Quote from: L0master on December 10, 2010, 04:21:10 am

Questions.
1) Can I really plant any seed in any season? I mean I was unable to plant cave wheat in winter in vanilla DF.

Sort of. You can plant any underground seed in any season in Civilization Forge. Aboveground plants have seasons, unlike in vanilla. It just makes more sense this way.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: L0master on December 12, 2010, 12:27:59 pm

Are there any new labors introduced? Or all the new workshops use some vanilla skills? Which of them then?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 12, 2010, 02:32:06 pm

The Alchemy buildings use the Alchemy skill, but that's it. Everything else is normal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: L0master on December 12, 2010, 02:58:06 pm

As far as i remember I didn't get any migrants with alchemy skill in vanila. I could add skill points to alchemy while embarking though. Are there migrants with alchemy skill now?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on December 17, 2010, 03:17:36 pm

*POKES*

Wheres there Primitive civ mod! :P
Silly sod I know you have it in you mate! don't make me come down there! ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 17, 2010, 07:33:26 pm

Ah. Blame work. It's been hectic. Should calm down after Monday, though.

I'll make it a Christmas gift for you guys! :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: L0master on December 19, 2010, 05:55:28 am

Flint doesn't appear on the stone list. And dwarfs can't use it for construction.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2010, 10:46:39 am

Same problme as teh vanilla obsidian bug. Remove the MAXEDGE tag.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: L0master on December 19, 2010, 01:32:58 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on December 19, 2010, 10:46:39 am

Remove the MAXEDGE tag.

It solved the problem. Thanks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 05, 2011, 09:22:55 pm

Where exactly do I put this in DF?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on January 05, 2011, 09:39:02 pm

Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 05, 2011, 09:22:55 pm

Where exactly do I put this in DF?

Go to the raw folder, then objects and copy-paste.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 09, 2011, 01:23:42 pm

Does this mod change what materials are magma safe because my obsidian floodgate and mehansims melted... :(

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on January 09, 2011, 01:26:17 pm

Obsidian isn't supposed to be magma safe.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 09, 2011, 02:14:27 pm

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Magma-safe

Obsidian is on the list.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 09, 2011, 02:15:06 pm

I didn't touch the melting point of any stones, so they're whatever Toady has them set to.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 12:01:51 pm

Another this I wonder about is how the new materials stack up against each other. Like how does Glacium compare to Crucible steel compare to Void Crystal compare to Orihalcum? The descriptions don't tell me. Just that they're all better than steel. Also why is blood and night crystal only stronger than iron (which I assume means weaker than steel) when their production is so much more difficult than steel? Also I'm assuming incendium is better for weapons than glacium (only bladed weapons or all weapons?) and ward iron is better for armor than glacium. So where does that put glacium? Is it like the jack of all trades of metals? What about Orihalcum versus ward iron? I know Orihalcum is supposed to be awesome for armor but so is Ward Iron.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 10, 2011, 12:53:29 pm

Here's a basic comparison list I did a while ago.


Tempered Crystal - Better than copper, worse than bronze
Blood Crystal - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel. Makes better Bladed Weapons than Night Crystal, but worse for blunt weapons and armor
Night Crystal - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel. Makes better Blunt Weapons and Armor than Blood Crystal
Void Crystal - Better than Steel, but worse than Orihalcum or Mithril

Bright Silver - Better than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel
Green Copper - Worse than copper, but worth a lot more and a bit lighter (I need to check, it might be better than copper now)

Mithril - Much better than Steel, only worse than Tempestium, Elementium, or Adamantine
Royal Bronze - Better and Lighter than Wrought Iron & Bronze, but worse than Steel.
Orihalcum - Much better than Steel. Only worse than pure Mithril, the Elemental Metals, and Adamantine
Levisium - Somewhat weak, but almost weightless
Verdant Bronze - Slightly weaker than Bronze, but lighter
Shimmersteel - Slightly weaker than Steel, but lighter

Glacium - Stronger than Steel and Void Crystal, but weaker than Mithril. Has a fixed low temperature (about 0 degrees Fahrenheit)
Incendium - Almost as strong as Mithril. Can only make weapons. Has a fixed high temperature.
Ward Iron - Almost as strong as Mithril. Can only make Armor
Tempestium - Only Elementium and Adamantine are better for ammo. Can only be used to make Bolts/Arrows
Elementium - Only Adamantine is superior to this metal


Glacium is indeed sort of a jack-of-all trades metal. It's better than Steel but worse than the rest of the Elemental metals. The Crystal metals are supposed to be made when you don't have access to the materials for Steel. They're really there for races that don't make Steel, not Dwarves. Although dwarves can use them, and Void Crystal is better than steel so it can be worth the effort. Generally, though, Dwarves are probably going to be making Steel and the Elemental metals, or Mithril based metals if they have access to Truesilver.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 03:24:47 pm

Ok I guess that makes sense. Although it makes me sad that there's really little point in me using the crystal stuff because it's pretty cool.

Also I never would have guess that mithril is stronger than Orihalcum given that in the description mithril is listed as stronger and lighter than steel and Orihalcum is listed as 'much harder than steel'. But given its weight it's probably better for blunt weapons? Mass effects armor vs blunt weapons too doesn't it?

Also you didn't mention anything about where crucible steel fits in.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 10, 2011, 04:23:47 pm

Yeah, Orichalcum is a lot heavier than Mithril, so it makes good blunt weapons. Not sure about armor being effected by weight, but Mithril armor seems to beat Orichalcum armor.

Crucible Steel is better than Steel, but not quite as good as Void Crystal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 05:13:23 pm

Ok all good to know. Also why would anyone waste mithril on making royal bronze? :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 10, 2011, 05:19:30 pm

Quote from: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 05:13:23 pm

Ok all good to know. Also why would anyone waste mithril on making royal bronze? :P

Usually it'd be made because you traded for a small amount of Mithril or Truesilver and need to make the most of it. Or if you have tons of everything you could make it for fun. Royal Guard outfitted in all Royal Bronze?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 05:23:26 pm

Right right... I guess most of the alloys in the game don't really have any practical use since they generally have the same value as their component metals did and they take extra work and effort to produce.

Also do you know if trapavoid creature avoid triggering pressure plates(I've actually never used pressure plates before)? I'm working on an impregnable fortress setup and I want it to be able to handle chaos dwarves too... (I hate them they slaughtered everyone in my last fort). Right now my only idea is repeating spikes on a one tile bridge suspended above a huge pit with spikes at the bottom. Nothing should get through that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 10, 2011, 05:24:51 pm

They should avoid pressure plates, yes.

And you're supposed to hate them. Although they do bring nice stuff for you to loot after you kill them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 06:46:54 pm

*sigh*

Well I guess I'm stuck with manually triggered magma traps and of course my repeating spike traps (no one can avoid those right? RIGHT???). And if all else fails good old blood and steel (or in this case incendium, mithril, and elementium)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vrga on January 11, 2011, 08:42:58 am

Quote from: Sarudak on January 10, 2011, 06:46:54 pm

Well I guess I'm stuck with manually triggered magma traps and of course my repeating spike traps (no one can avoid those right? RIGHT???)

fliers in some cases? :p

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 14, 2011, 10:34:00 am

Hey Meph!
Do you still have the 0.28 version of Primitive Civs?  I am puttign together a version of DF for my brother whose never played before and using .28 since it is a bit easier to a newcomer. I want to load it up with some interesting mods and hoing to use your old one but cant find it anymore.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2011, 11:30:07 am

Should still be on DFFD. It might be mispelled as primative instead of primitive, though.

EDIT: Found it

Here you go (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=544)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 14, 2011, 01:09:00 pm

Awesome! thanks matie!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2011, 01:13:56 pm

I should have the stand-alone Primitive Civ mod done soon too. Just finishing up the Satyr/Nymph civ today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 14, 2011, 02:49:21 pm

Just out of curiousity What is the list of Civs you are thinking of addig to the new version?
I mostly am curious  because I know your other mods have dozens of new races, but the Prim-Civ was mostly just makign the existing "beast men' into civs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2011, 02:59:50 pm

Primitive Civs has:
Bearmen
Frogmen
Goatmen
Jackalmen
Lizardmen
Monkeymen
Raccoonmen
Ravenmen
Snakemen
Squirrelmen
Tigermen
Turtlemen
Wolfmen
Ratmen
Satyr/Nymph

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 14, 2011, 03:11:59 pm

Awesome thanks, can't really think of ayone I would't want on the list, or anyone else to add.  Maybe frogmen, not really sure about a Frogmen civ, they seem so, squishy ;P

That said can't wait to gen a new 40D world when this comes out ;D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2011, 03:17:35 pm

Quote from: Crossroads Inc. on January 14, 2011, 03:11:59 pm

Awesome thanks, can't really think of ayone I would't want on the list, or anyone else to add.  Maybe frogmen, not really sure about a Frogmen civ, they seem so, squishy ;P

That said can't wait to gen a new 40D world when this comes out ;D

Eh, they breed fast.

And this is for 31.18, not 40d. And it's going along well. I'm just about done, I think. Just need to run some tests and clean up any of the inevitable problems.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 15, 2011, 11:37:45 am

I really love this mod by the way.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vrga on January 15, 2011, 01:03:19 pm

i'll have to bitch about the amount of clutter constant 12-16 ambushes and siege after siege after siege bring constantly.




i mean, almost the whole embark (2x2) is blood smeared.



so yeah :p



also, glacium, elementium, incendium stuff is evil.


blazing incendium is meh. i have approximately 30 or so weapon traps with blazing incendium serrated discs. not a single fart was incinerated.


or... derp.


i just remembered i had temperature turned off.


derp derp deeeerp...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 17, 2011, 03:27:01 pm

You may want to look into modifying how and where the elemental crystals are spawned. I had noticed that I was regularly finding frost crystal but none of the others. Using the prospector in DF_Hack I has consistently seeing 0-50 of storm, ward, fire heart, and flare crystals while having 1000-3000 (!!!!) frost crystals on the map. This is the case even on maps that I specifically chose to have 2 layers of granite and one of marble, as a side point though the prospector claimed they were there on using reveal I could find no evidence of said crystals. This means that all the elemental metals are EXTREMELY rare (far rarer than mithril which is stronger and lighter) except for glacium which is limited only by how much rock salt you can find. Not to mention all those frost crystals makes for ridiculously valuable encrusting (not that an experienced player has any difficulty making value just sayin). I think the problem relates to competition for spawning but it may be something else entirely because I can't say I've ever actually found a fire heart cluster and I think I've found storm crystals and ward crystals once each even though on one map I searched two entire marble layers.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 17, 2011, 04:01:53 pm

Hmmm. I've found all of them before, but I may need to tweak things. I'll look into that after the next version of DF, since I think Toady is changing how rare resources are for the Caravan arc.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 17, 2011, 04:40:00 pm

Also why is Frost Crystal the only one that has a unique way of finding it and all the other crystals are all found in the same stuff? Why not put ward crystals in olivine and verdenite? And fire crystals in cinnabar? And storm crystals in orthoclase? Or something like that...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 17, 2011, 04:45:21 pm

Holdover from the old 40d version. I'll probably do something new and interesting with them soon, but I just kept the old system when I migrated everything over.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sarudak on January 17, 2011, 05:58:08 pm

So is there no way to make the supposedly warlike nations actually more likely to go to war (without resorting to the baby snatcher tag)? I wouldn't mind it if sometimes they were peaceful but it'd be cool if fairly regularly at least one was at war with me...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 17, 2011, 10:59:32 pm

Not yet, no. We'll have to wait until Toady gets more of the War arc done.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 18, 2011, 05:45:38 pm

Ok, Primitive Civilizations (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=75416.0) has been released as a stand-alone mod.

I'll have the Satyrs and Nymphs in the next version of Civilization Forge. I have a few other things I'm going to add there, but hopefully it'll be up soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Thundercraft on January 19, 2011, 12:45:07 pm

I was reading in the Legendary Lands (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=61301.0) thread and I noticed this:

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 12:54:25 pm

Quote from: Captain Mayday on July 14, 2010, 12:51:26 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 14, 2010, 12:48:27 pm

That's a good system you have going there, Mayday! How long did it take you to whip it up?

I might have to steal this idea. It'll make some of my future ideas much easier to pull off.

This has taken some time to implement. The goal here is to provide a basis upon which I can build Legendary Lands. It is also to provide a resource to help people new to modding to get into it with less difficulty.

Sounds like a good goal. Any objections to me using your work for Civilization Forge at some point?

But upon looking at the raws in the latest Civ Forge, I did not find the telltale "c_variation_VBASE_..." or "creature_LL_..." type files. Does this mean that Civ Forge does not yet have elements of Legendary Lands added? And if not, are there still plans to add this (for more creatures, civs, and or creature variation) at a later date?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 19, 2011, 12:57:27 pm

Yeah, I want to move over to V_Base at some point to make things cleaner and use some of the nifty tag that Captain Mayday has come up with. I probably won't be using any actual Legendary Lands stuff, since I like to keep my mod more or less distinct from the other major mods.

Not sure when this'll happen, though, since it's a lot of work to translate everything I've already built over to that system.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on January 22, 2011, 06:27:47 pm

i cant figure out how to use the separation chamber... i have the necessary reagents but it says i do not
i noticed on truesilver and levitite that it says turning them into their respective metals takes place in the tempering chamber, so i went into the raws and melded the separation chamber and tempering chamber .txt files and interestingly enough i can use the tempering chamber to separate the metals, the separation chamber still doesnt work however

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 22, 2011, 07:42:45 pm

Hmmm. Should all work ok. Is this with 2.31?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on January 22, 2011, 09:52:40 pm

yeah everything is up to date

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 22, 2011, 09:53:42 pm

I'll take a look at it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on January 22, 2011, 09:55:36 pm

i seriously doubt this would have any impact but you never know... i removed the filler stone and i removed several of the hostile races (too much lag with that many units all the time)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 22, 2011, 10:03:57 pm

That shouldn't have effected anything, no.

EDIT: Figured it out. An old problem seems to have crept back in.

In reaction_separation_cf there is a line that says:
[BUILDING:CHAMBER_TEMPERING:CUSTOM_M]

when it should say:
[BUILDING:CHAMBER_SEPARATION:CUSTOM_M]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on January 22, 2011, 10:10:06 pm

oh hey there it is, i can't believe i missed that

i must have somehow skipped over it when i was reading the file

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Hoooooooar on January 23, 2011, 08:37:19 pm

Just downloaded and played my first game, awesome mod.  I do have a few questions i hope this is the correct place to ask them.

#1.  Where do i find iron at?  I don't have any hemitite or liminite or anything anywhere that you use in vanilla.  This was the downfall of my glorious castle, that and i wasn't anticipating 4 convoys showing up at the same time killing each other and blaming me for it, then all invading me at the same time :0  I like that, but i'll be more prepared next time, if i could figure out how to get my metal industry rolling that would help.  I read the changes of everything and i get it, but i cannot find any iron, i've tried 4 different embark places across the continent.

#2  When multiple convoys arrive all at the same time how do you pick which one to trade with?

#3  I use.. phoebeus i think graphic pack whatever one comes with lazynewb pack, i love it, but getting invaded by hills and armies of green leather looks a little odd, any graphic packs for the new stuff that i can use in addition to the lazynewb one?

thats about it, #1 is obviously the most important and probably obvious. i checked the wiki couldn't find anything on it.

Thanks in advance, great mod can't wait to start up another castle, i just love building up in the air what can i say.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 23, 2011, 11:06:57 pm

#1) Iron shouldn't be a problem. All of the normal ores are in place, and Ilmenite had been added in. Bad luck, I guess? My current fort is swimming in the stuff.

#2) When trading you can just pick from a list. The game handles that just fine.

#3) Couldn't say, sorry. I don't use any graphics packs. Maybe someone else can comment?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: rephikul on January 24, 2011, 12:35:21 am

ya you may want to consider using plain characters to represent your units because graphics sets usually have modified most original symbols save for plain characters.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Hoooooooar on January 24, 2011, 12:37:31 am

i guess so this evil continent has no iron :0 on a side note, i just built a wall over a brook and literally just had about 200 fish collide on the wall and are flapping about the surface now, automatic fish catcher.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 31, 2011, 02:06:17 pm

New Poll up, btw. I'm curious to see what things you guys are interested in.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: nbonaparte on January 31, 2011, 06:36:38 pm

The dyansauri tend to be at war with the elves and high elves, and they all come to trade at the same time. I mean, I like the free stuff they leave, but my depot gets covered in giant beetle vomit and I don't want to make everybody siege me at once. Perhaps the dyansauri's season could change.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 31, 2011, 07:21:59 pm

Yeah, I may need to tweak things on that front. It gets kind of ugly right now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 03, 2011, 01:05:54 pm

Looks like Libraries has the commanding vote right now. I've got a bunch of ideas on how to do that in an interesting fashion.

I'll probably wait until Toady releases the next version of DF, since that's supposed to be soon and it'll be changing trading and resources a bit, I think. Shouldn't effect too much of what I want to do, but I'd like to avoid the Transport Tube workaround if possible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: crappypappy on February 13, 2011, 02:53:39 pm

i for the life of me cant get either of ure graphics packs uve supplied us with, working and idk how to >.< any one got a vanila version of civilization forge with either of the graphics packs or a complete graphics pack for it that they could upload onto here? please and thank you

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Anathema on February 15, 2011, 09:20:58 pm

Quote from: nbonaparte on January 31, 2011, 06:36:38 pm

The dyansauri tend to be at war with the elves and high elves, and they all come to trade at the same time. I mean, I like the free stuff they leave, but my depot gets covered in giant beetle vomit and I don't want to make everybody siege me at once. Perhaps the dyansauri's season could change.

Yeah I get this too, except more often with the Vamari and the Frost Giants. I mean, I expect caravans to be in danger - I get flooded by ambushes and sieges and many caravans don't make it 3 steps alive, that's part of the unique challenge of CivForge, but there are things you can do to try and get caravans safely to your trade depot. But what can you do when you've gone through all that effort to get a couple caravans inside safely, and they decide to butcher each other on the depot itself? It's a bit frustrating, sure you get their stuff for free, but it spoils the chance to have a healthy trading relationship with about half the caravans.

I've experimented with some crude workarounds involving multiple trade depots and locked doors, by the way. It's tough to pull off, sometimes they insist on using the same trade depot even if you cut one side off from it and have a second one they can access, and if any traders or animals get killed, or if they merely get frightened away from the depot after starting to unpack, it seems to bug any trading that season ("no traders present" even after any that still live arrive at/return to the depot). I usually have to settle for trading with one caravan while keeping the other safely locked out. DF just wasn't intended to have caravans hostile to each other, I think.

Edit: Not meant to be a rant though, I do love the mod, and the variety of races to fight/trade with is one of its many high points. Just want to emphasize that this is a problem, it makes it hard to actually enjoy the aforementioned variety of races to trade with. ..Conflicts among ambushes of different races, on the other hand, are hilarious and don't really stop me from interacting with them in the intended way (i.e. killing them).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Anathema on February 16, 2011, 02:14:03 am

Quote from: crappypappy on February 13, 2011, 02:53:39 pm

i for the life of me cant get either of ure graphics packs uve supplied us with, working and idk how to >.< any one got a vanila version of civilization forge with either of the graphics packs or a complete graphics pack for it that they could upload onto here? please and thank you

I've uploaded the graphical CivForge I hacked together for myself here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800), it's mostly standard Mayday graphics with the gaps filled in by Drayath's pack from this thread. Let me know if you know run into any problems. That's DF 31.18 + CivForge 2.31, for the record.

I had to overwrite CivForge's languages with default DF ones to stop graphic tiles from appearing in names, so High Elves now speak Elven, etc. I included a backup of the original CivForge languages, so you can revert that change pretty easily if you prefer a greater variety of slightly buggy languages. I've also changed the default Mayday graphics pretty significantly for my own purposes (e.g. made ilmenite look different from magnetite/sphalerite, that was driving me nuts). But graphics and language aside, there should be no actual gameplay changes to CivForge.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 16, 2011, 05:36:44 am

Yeah, I've been trying to think of some good workarounds as well. I may tweak the trading seasons a bit, have all the evil races show up at the same time. It'll help at least a little. Can't guarantee anything, though.

But we'll see, with the Caravan arc maybe Toady has fixed it a bit?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: crappypappy on February 16, 2011, 03:45:00 pm

lol anthema thank u very much but erm i may not use it now on the main point that erm the caravan stuff is out now sry and thank u very much. erm lol i feel like an ass

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Thundercraft on February 16, 2011, 04:13:20 pm

Quote from: crappypappy on February 16, 2011, 03:45:00 pm

lol anthema thank u very much but erm i may not use it now on the main point that erm the caravan stuff is out now sry and thank u very much. erm lol i feel like an ass

Personally, I'm grateful to Anathema for putting together a graphics version as I really do not care for ASCII tiles. (Only thing is, version 0.31.19 is out now and it has many new creatures that need graphics.)

But, you do realize that Wagons (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Wagon) are missing from all versions of Dwarf Fortress (versions 0.31.01+), right? Unless wagons were fixed in the new 0.31.19 version (and from what I'm reading, that does not seem to be the case), caravans will be bugged no matter what flavor of DF you play.

And, for the record, this other problem of bloody conflicts erupting between multiple caravans - while incredibly annoying - seems just as commonplace in Genesis Mod - and possibly with other mods as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Anathema on February 16, 2011, 04:20:27 pm

I think he's referring to today's new release, 31.19, not being included in my upload - so yeah, it got made obsolete the day I posted it, hah. Just bad timing, I'll post an updated version when a new CivForge gets released.

No problem by the way, like I said I put it together for my own use, I just cleaned up my copy a little and uploaded it. I'm sure someone will find it useful, at least until there's a new CivForge to go with 31.19.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 16, 2011, 05:27:27 pm

Yeah, it'll be a bit. Lots of stuff to look at and incorporate.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 24, 2011, 01:22:50 am

Progress is good. Got a lot of stuff integrated already, but there is still a lot left to do. Should be able to make Alchemy a bit less clunky now, which is nice. And the new mineral distributions should make the various Tempered Crystals a lot more useful (like they were back in 40d).

Debating whether I want to keep the Oil Press in or just use what Toady has for pressing oil nuts. Might move those jobs over to the press, but we'll see.

Also, Dyansauri now get eggs! Fun! Currently debating whether or not to give them some feathers as well. Hmmm. I wonder how they'd react to nest boxes if you play them in fortress mode. Might need to try that out.

The various egg laying primitive civs will get updated as well, of course.

Once I've got version 2.4 out I'll start working on adding in the various inks and papers and libraries and such.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Morrigi on March 04, 2011, 07:38:43 pm

What's happening with this thing?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 04, 2011, 07:39:35 pm

I'm working on it. It's going pretty well, but the revamp of Alchemy to use the new container syntax is taking a bit.

My goal is to get it finished up this weekend and to have a release sometime early next week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 07, 2011, 03:18:41 pm

Status update: Got a lot of work done over the weekend, mostly in the vein of getting Alchemy to work better. We should have functioning Acids now, which I'll be testing out tonight! We certainly have jars working correctly as containers.

Still not sure about whether we need the transport tubes workaround or not. I'll find that out soon, although I suspect that merchants still won't bring new stuff that isn't metal.

Current goal is the same. I'm planning on having a mostly complete version done tonight that I can start major testing on. Depending on how well that goes I'll have a release sometime this week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2011, 04:39:00 pm

Making good progress. Alchemy seems to be working pretty well now and you can bring the various alchemical powders along with you at embark. No luck on the various acids and elixirs in that department, but it should be good enough trade-wise that I can ditch the clumsy transport tube workaround. Still needs a bit more testing, but that's what I'm leaning towards at the moment.

Going to be doing another test fort tonight that should be pretty much complete. All the major changes are done at least, so it'll be down to bug fixes.

One slight change: The Tempered Crystals now use a product called a Crystal Seed to form. You can get Crystal Seed by processing rough or cut Rock Crystal gems at the alchemist's lab. Basically I did that so that you can order rock crystals for trade and use them for the crystals if you're on a metal-poor map that doesn't have the crystals on-site. Especially if you happen to have cinnabar/cobaltite on-site.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 09, 2011, 04:51:26 pm

RE: the question in the title:

I don't think most dinosaurs had feathers.  Many did, but most probably only had a kind of proto-feather... basically more like a scale than a feather, but jutting off the body.

The real question is: Are the Dyansauri Therapod based or Sauropod based? I believe the common scientific knowledge is that Therapods had the feather-like structures, while Sauropod skin was far more elephantine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2011, 04:57:00 pm

They are definitely therapod based. Which is why I'm considering it. They're also fairly large, though, and I know not all therapods are thought to have had feathers.

The real question, I suppose, is whether we think it would enhance them or detract from them?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 09, 2011, 05:40:26 pm

Maybe give them feathers as "hair" on their heads... http://www.artdinouveau.com/feathered/velociraptor-mongoliensis1.jpg

^ That's what I mean about protofeathers.

GOD that picture creeps me out.  Gigantic killer chicken or something,

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2011, 05:46:36 pm

That is pretty creepy.

I was thinking something along the lines of a feathered crest and maybe feathers on the tail.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Thundercraft on March 09, 2011, 06:00:39 pm

Quote from: Jeoshua on March 09, 2011, 05:40:26 pm

GOD that picture creeps me out.  Gigantic killer chicken or something,

I think it's vaguely suggestive of a mutant or gremlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlins) version of Big Bird. (Don't feed Big Bird after midnight!) :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Morrigi on March 09, 2011, 10:56:04 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 09, 2011, 04:57:00 pm

They are definitely therapod based. Which is why I'm considering it. They're also fairly large, though, and I know not all therapods are thought to have had feathers.

The real question, I suppose, is whether we think it would enhance them or detract from them?

Velociraptors definitely had feathers and the common belief is that the possibly 160 pound deinonychus as seen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinonychus) also did. In my opinion it would fundamentally change the way one would look at them if the dyansauri were given feathers, but definitely not for the worse. It's a healthy dose of realism and while a technologically advanced humanoid dinosaur with feathers and all would be a very bizarre image, it would also just be plain awesome.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Scaraban on March 09, 2011, 11:56:02 pm

Quote from: Morrigi on March 09, 2011, 10:56:04 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 09, 2011, 04:57:00 pm

They are definitely therapod based. Which is why I'm considering it. They're also fairly large, though, and I know not all therapods are thought to have had feathers.

The real question, I suppose, is whether we think it would enhance them or detract from them?

Velociraptors definitely had feathers and the common belief is that the possibly 160 pound deinonychus as seen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinonychus) also did. In my opinion it would fundamentally change the way one would look at them if the dyansauri were given feathers, but definitely not for the worse. It's a healthy dose of realism and while a technologically advanced humanoid dinosaur with feathers and all would be a very bizarre image, it would also just be plain awesome.

The boy speaks truth.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 10, 2011, 09:58:01 am

You could make them "look" more humanoid by making sure there are no feathers on the face, specifically.  Frills on the head sound really good  Maybe you could make a caste system where there are "Leader" types, very rare, but very powerful.  1 in 1000 births would be a leader type, and the main thing separating them would be their higher strength and toughness and their massive "Mane" of feathers.  This kind of thing actually happens in the animal kingdom, too.  Look at Lions.  Big Mane = Tough dude.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2011, 01:13:09 pm

Hmmm. That's an interesting idea.

Now...how do we want to go with this? Should males have the bright colors and females be brown or drab? Probably not, since their predators and not prey. I might let them be brightly colored, even though I doubt they would be from an evolutionary standpoint.

Other question is whether or not the females should be larger than the males.


In modding progress news, I've run into some odd bugs that I'm trying to work out. For some reason some reactions are giving me the results I expect and others are giving me 150x what I expect. I just had a test fort produce 150 Void Crystal Bars from a single reaction last night. Nice, I suppose, since the only metal on site is Tetrahedrite. But not exactly what I was going for. So I'm trying to figure out what is going on there.

Also, you may notice that world-gen populations are a bit wonky. The various carnivorous races, like the Dyansauri, had to be set to [NO_EAT] to keep them from all starving by year 4. So now they regularly get empires with over 100K citizens while everyone else is lucky to have 10k. Shouldn't effect Fortress mode too much, but it might make Adventure mode a bit wonky.

I might need to make an Adventure Mode friendly version with some tweaks to it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Anathema on March 10, 2011, 04:03:05 pm

I guess I'm just a traditionalist - have a hard time wrapping my head around dinosaurs-with-feathers, scientific accuracy be damned, so I picked "no."

But anyway, looking forward to the new release! I'm definitely still planning to upload a mayday graphics version once we get the new civforge, as a few people seemed to like the old one.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on March 10, 2011, 06:31:16 pm

Personally, I think male Dyansauri should at least have a color head frill and/or elaborate tails like peacocks, but whatever sounds most reasonable.

I'm eagerly awaiting an update to 31.21 for this mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 14, 2011, 12:22:14 pm

Almost ready to release. Still working out a kink with some of the Alchemy reactions. Most of it works ok, but I'm having an issue with Quicksilver and Midnight Elixir. The alchemists use an entire container's worth when making the various crystals. Which would be ok, except that a container holds 5 uses and the game won't use just part of it. So I'm stuck either forcing you to make crystal in batches of 5 or reducing the ratio of Cinnabar/Cobaltite to Rock Crystal to 1. I was trying to keep the scare resources, like the stones, from being a bottleneck in actually producing the crystals.

I'll keep playing with it, but which do you guys prefer? Only being able to make crystal in batches of 5 (so, 5 Quicksilver, 5 Crystal Seed, and 5 ikal nabid to make 5 Blood Crystal bars) or only getting 1 Blood Crystal bar per cinnabar.

In other news: Dyansauri, Hobgoblins, and Frost Giants all now show up in Winter since they're the most likely to be at war with other races. Elves and High Elves show up in spring, Silver Xelics and Humans show up in Summer, and Vamarii and Dwarves show up in Fall.

If you're using the various Primitive civs...well, you may get lots of caravan wars going on. There are too many of them for me to really try and prevent too much conflict, sorry.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Niveras on March 14, 2011, 12:52:22 pm

Maybe an interim step where you turn the stone into 5x of something (cinnabar tablet?), which is then used in the reactions to produce the metal/crystal? Perhaps produced at a masonry or jewelcrafting, using alchemy skill (the shops have the tools needed to create the tablets, the skill is the knowledge to make them without much waste), or it could just be added to one of the alchemy workshops.

Personally, I find it odd at the lack of interim materials used in DF. It doesn't make sense to me that dwarves only ever work in huge boulders or a whole tree-as-log. If I were so inclined I'd create reactions for "blanks" of stone (wood would make planks), which can then be used in the same way we use boulders now. The number of blanks used for furniture or other items would vary, similar to how materials worked in 40d (though not quite the same; a door might take 2, a statue 10, where each boulder/plank produces 3 blanks). Furniture and other things could still use a single boulder, but they'd be "rough" and have a lower value than items made from blanks. Blocks would be removed; the blanks could be used as blocks are now. Metal would only ever have bars, used pretty much as they are now (maybe increasing the number of bars you get from a boulder, and increasing the number of bars needed to make items equivalently). Glass especially would benefit from this process: you'd make glass blanks, which you'd then either cut into glass gems or mold into furniture. You wouldn't buy sand anymore, but instead glass blanks that you can use as you'd like, instead of having only sand and raw/cut glass gems.

But that is way outside the scope of your mod. Sorry for my tangent. :-p

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 14, 2011, 01:08:25 pm

Well, powders seem to work ok. So maybe I just need to turn the various Elixirs into some sort of powder for now.

Still, kind of annoying that it won't let me put them into separate containers AND won't let me just use 1 dose per use. But I haven't given up yet, I still have a few things to try.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 17, 2011, 11:05:20 pm

Figured it out. The liquid containers have tags, so it was just a matter of having container a, container b, etc.

Bah. So obvious. Can't believe that it took me this long to figure that out.

Anyway, almost done. Doing some testing tonight. With any luck I'll have a release tomorrow.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: SalmonGod on March 18, 2011, 01:47:54 am

Looking forward to trying this mod when 31.22 comes out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Morrigi on March 18, 2011, 09:56:13 pm

Good to hear there's progress, it will be great when this comes out because it looks like genesis mod won't be updated for awhile.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 19, 2011, 05:01:31 pm

Ok. Two last tests to run and I'll be done.

Still getting some annoying behavior out of the dyansauri feather descriptions, but it's not a big deal so I'm not going to let that hold up the release. Today I'll be a bit too busy to wrap things up but I expect to get a release bundled up and out tomorrow.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 19, 2011, 06:41:59 pm

Yay! And I can once again plunder this mod for it's gooey center XD

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Skald on March 20, 2011, 03:41:51 pm

Yeaaah. Looking forward to that update.

I just installed the latest version of Civ Forge over a clean install of 31_21, and well...

I'm getting some weird civilizations showing up...

I mean, playing as elves where there are no dwarves is one thing, but being at war with a race of sentient wagons and giant roaches? That's a bit much for my tastes...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Scaraban on March 20, 2011, 04:09:54 pm

Catten FireBelch's speech to the militia before the Great Caravan of 1057
DWARVES!
The wagons come to trade blood for wood in their annual effort for our trade...
[Troops laugh uproariously]
BUT WE SHALL SEIZE THEIR GOODS AND LET NONE ESCAPE WITH PROFIT!!!!
NOW TO THE DEPOT!!!!
[AHOO! AHOO! AHOO!]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.18 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 20, 2011, 04:15:27 pm

Civilization Forge 2.4 has been released! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: tigervx on March 20, 2011, 11:08:09 pm

Thanks for the release! I come back to Dwarf Fortress to try out the new Caravan features and can use my favorite mod again without skipping a beat, appreciate it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.31 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on March 21, 2011, 12:20:32 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 20, 2011, 04:15:27 pm

Civilization Forge 2.4 has been released! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277)

Not gonna lie, I squealed happily when I saw this.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Morrigi on March 21, 2011, 10:07:20 am

Awesome, downloading now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: tigervx on March 22, 2011, 04:49:42 am

I set a pasture zone, and my stray horse is fine, but my land strider is starving to death and I need to butcher the poor insane beast. Could this be a bug?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 22, 2011, 07:14:34 am

Land striders probably strave faster than they can eat, just like Vanilla elephants.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 22, 2011, 09:56:40 am

Ah, right. Forgot to fix that. I meant to set land striders and elephants to eat at a rate that won't kill them. I'll put that fix into the next version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Seriyu on March 24, 2011, 12:15:40 am

Rock crystal doesn't seem to be able to be found in all stone types anymore. I just embarked on a place, 2x2, and didn't find a single piece of rock crystal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 24, 2011, 12:52:49 am

Quote from: Seriyu on March 24, 2011, 12:15:40 am

Rock crystal doesn't seem to be able to be found in all stone types anymore. I just embarked on a place, 2x2, and didn't find a single piece of rock crystal.

Rock Crystal can show up anywhere. The problem is that the game doesn't do a large variety of stone/gem types in any given region anymore. It seems to just pick a few per map. So even though it could show up anywhere it's no longer a given that it will show up on your map.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 24, 2011, 01:32:47 am

And with this it's more likely to have rock crystal picked as one of the gem types.  So "real" gems become extra-rare

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Seriyu on March 24, 2011, 05:48:42 am

Hmmmmm, I see. I'd wondered if the metal scarcity update had something to do with it, but I just waved it off. That'll teach me. :P

Thanks!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Umbreon on March 26, 2011, 07:04:40 am

I can't seem to build any of the Custom CivForge workshops, as they don't appear in the Workshops OR Furnaces section of the build menu. I got DF v0.31.22, installed the Phoebus Graphics pack and then put the CivForge raws in the raw folder, but the Workshops and Furnaces don't appear, which basically means I can't use custom metals, which is the main reason I wanted this mod.

Do I have to 'find' something before they appear? (E.G. Finding Lava for a Magma forge)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on March 26, 2011, 11:01:19 am

Minor thing, but you seem to have integrated the primitive weapons mod, without mentioning it anywhere in the changelog. Is this fucntional, or were you just messing with it and left in the raws?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 26, 2011, 12:37:42 pm

@Umbreon: No, they should show up just fine. Double-check your entity_default file in the raws. You should see all of the custom workshops show up there in the dwarven entry. Also check your error log to see if it's complaining about missing stuff.

@Lord Shonus: Ah, those are in there for the Primitive Civs. Seems I forgot to mention it, though. I'll get proper mention of that in.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Umbreon on March 26, 2011, 11:41:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 26, 2011, 12:37:42 pm

@Umbreon: No, they should show up just fine. Double-check your entity_default file in the raws. You should see all of the custom workshops show up there in the dwarven entry. Also check your error log to see if it's complaining about missing stuff.

Turns out the "entity_default" raw didn't extract itself. Did it manually and it works fine, thanks! :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on March 27, 2011, 12:03:22 pm

Well, due to the great and mighty Toad being ultra-fast with bugfixes, I'm now wondering if the current update for this mod would work with 31.24. Haven't downloaded it yet (just in case a new update happens...), so I'm wondering if anyone has done science on this.

I love this mod so freaking much.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 27, 2011, 05:48:53 pm

Might have some issues. Quite a few files got updated with the most recent release. Fortunately it shouldn't take me too long to get a new version out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 27, 2011, 06:28:32 pm

31.21 -> .24 doesn't have many changes in the raws except a few body changes and some new creatures... took me about 20 minuites.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on March 27, 2011, 08:06:18 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 27, 2011, 05:48:53 pm

Might have some issues. Quite a few files got updated with the most recent release. Fortunately it shouldn't take me too long to get a new version out.

Quote from: Jeoshua on March 27, 2011, 06:28:32 pm

31.21 -> .24 doesn't have many changes in the raws except a few body changes and some new creatures... took me about 20 minuites.

Spiffy. I can wait.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 28, 2011, 04:17:00 pm

Civilization Forge 2.41 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) has been released.

Nice and easy to do, this time.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Dohon on March 28, 2011, 05:44:48 pm

Sweet!

Once I play some DF (Still haven't played DF 2010 ... "Just one more release so I can have the best experience!"), I'm gonna try the mod. Been keeping an eye on it for quite some time.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: vhappylurker on March 29, 2011, 01:20:39 pm

I am in my happy place now. Thank you.  :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on March 31, 2011, 02:08:03 am

The game's crashed a couple times now a few seconds after a dyansauri caravan appearing. Nothing's showing up in the error log, and the only changes I made were to add some things from another mod to their entity definition which work fine for other races, so I don't know what's going on there.

Edit: Nevermind, the crash still happened after a quick mod tweak to keep them from sending a caravan.

Edit 2: That time the crash seemed to be because of my modding the raws for that save after worldgen, except... the arrival of a dyansauri caravan just crashed the game again, in a fresh worldgen. :| Is this happening to anyone else?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: ricree on April 06, 2011, 04:31:42 am

I'm not sure if I've already thanked you these past 60 pages, but if I haven't it's long past time.

This is easily my favorite DF mod, and I find that its changes make things a lot more varied and interesting.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Deon on April 06, 2011, 04:42:50 am

Quote from: InsanityPrelude on March 31, 2011, 02:08:03 am

The game's crashed a couple times now a few seconds after a dyansauri caravan appearing. Nothing's showing up in the error log, and the only changes I made were to add some things from another mod to their entity definition which work fine for other races, so I don't know what's going on there.

Edit: Nevermind, the crash still happened after a quick mod tweak to keep them from sending a caravan.

Edit 2: That time the crash seemed to be because of my modding the raws for that save after worldgen, except... the arrival of a dyansauri caravan just crashed the game again, in a fresh worldgen. :| Is this happening to anyone else?

Did you play around with beekeeping/wax materials? Are you sure they can get those?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 06, 2011, 08:30:58 am

No? I didn't change anything related to beekeeping at all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2011, 08:59:45 am

Quote from: InsanityPrelude on March 31, 2011, 02:08:03 am

The game's crashed a couple times now a few seconds after a dyansauri caravan appearing. Nothing's showing up in the error log, and the only changes I made were to add some things from another mod to their entity definition which work fine for other races, so I don't know what's going on there.

Edit: Nevermind, the crash still happened after a quick mod tweak to keep them from sending a caravan.

Edit 2: That time the crash seemed to be because of my modding the raws for that save after worldgen, except... the arrival of a dyansauri caravan just crashed the game again, in a fresh worldgen. :| Is this happening to anyone else?

Hmm. I'll poke around a bit to see if I can figure anything out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 06, 2011, 01:36:56 pm

I don't think it's actually related to Civforge, since dyansauri showed up in a different fort without any problems.

It looks like you did forget to give them egg materials though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 06, 2011, 04:17:15 pm

Quote from: InsanityPrelude on April 06, 2011, 01:36:56 pm

I don't think it's actually related to Civforge, since dyansauri showed up in a different fort without any problems.

It looks like you did forget to give them egg materials though.

Huh. They have them in my copy. I wonder if the wrong file got added to the zip.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 06, 2011, 10:30:47 pm

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

creature_dyansauri_cf

[OBJECT:CREATURE]


[CREATURE:DYANSAURI]
   [DESCRIPTION:A manlike creatures with rough scales and a reptilian head and tail. It has a feathered crest and a fan of feathers on its tail. It stalks the plains of the world, forging great empires and attacking all who stand in the way.]
   [NAME:dyansauri:dyansauri:dyansauri]
   [CASTE_NAME:dyansauri:dyansauri:dyansauri]
   [CREATURE_TILE:146][COLOR:3:0:0]
      [EVIL]
   [INTELLIGENT][LIKES_FIGHTING]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [CARNIVORE][NO_DRINK][NO_EAT]
   [SAVAGE]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [PREFSTRING:bloodlust]   
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:0:50:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:20:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:50:100]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:75]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:TAIL:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH:GENERIC_TEETH_WITH_LARGE_EYE_TEETH:RIBCAGE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:SKIN]
      [REMOVE_MATERIAL:LEATHER]
      [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
      [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:FEATHER:FEATHER_TEMPLATE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
      [REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
      [REMOVE_TISSUE:SKIN]
      [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SCALE:SCALE_TEMPLATE]
      [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:FEATHER:FEATHER_TEMPLATE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SCALE:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:BODY_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS:FEATHER]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:NAIL:NAIL_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL:FRONT]
   [TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL:FRONT]
   [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
    [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_HEAD_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
   [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
   [TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
   [HAS_NERVES]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
   [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
   [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
   [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
   [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]              ++
   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]              +
   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]               ++
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:INTUITION:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500]                -
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:EMPATHY:0:100:200:300:400:450:500]                       ---
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:SOCIAL_AWARENESS:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500]         -
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:KINESTHETIC_SENSE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]      +
   [BODY_SIZE:0:0:60]
   [BODY_SIZE:1:168:20000]
   [BODY_SIZE:12:0:75000]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_CHEEKBONES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROAD_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:170]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:JUTTING_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:150]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:SQUARE_CHIN:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]

   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DEEP_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:RASPY_VOICE:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]

   [SET_BP_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]
      [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
         [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:700]      
   [MAXAGE:60:80]
   [ATTACK:PUNCH:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:GRASP]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:punch:punches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
   [ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_TYPE:STANCE]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK:SCRATCH:CHILD_TISSUE_LAYER_GROUP:BY_TYPE:GRASP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:GRASP_STRIKE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:scratch:scratches]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
   [ATTACK:BITE:CHILD_BODYPART_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:BY_CATEGORY:TOOTH]
      [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
      [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
      [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_PENETRATION_PERC:100]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_EDGE]
      [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
      [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
   [BABY:1]
   [CHILD:12]
   [EQUIPS]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [CASTE:FEMALE]
      [FEMALE]
         [LAYS_EGGS]
         [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGGSHELL:SOLID]
         [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_WHITE:LIQUID]
         [EGG_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:EGG_YOLK:LIQUID]
         [EGG_SIZE:100]
         [CLUTCH_SIZE:1:3]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:FEATHER]
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:25:70:90:100:110:130:150]
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:25:70:90:100:110:130:150]
          [APP_MOD_NOUN:crest:SINGULAR]
        [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:COBALT:1:INDIGO:1:MIDNIGHT_BLUE:1:BLUE:1]
          [TLCM_NOUN:crest-feathers:PLURAL]   
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:TAIL:FEATHER]
          [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:25:70:90:100:110:130:150]
          [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:25:70:90:100:110:130:150]
            [APP_MOD_NOUN:tail-feathers:PLURAL]
          [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:COBALT:1:INDIGO:1:MIDNIGHT_BLUE:1:BLUE:1]   
            [TLCM_NOUN:tail-feathers:PLURAL]        
   [CASTE:MALE]
      [MALE]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:FEATHER]
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]   
          [APP_MOD_NOUN:crest:SINGULAR]    
        [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GREEN:1:TURQUOISE:1:TEAL:1:SLATE_GRAY:1:SEA_GREEN:1:SCARLET:1:RED:1:PURPLE:1:MIDNIGHT_BLUE:1:MAROON:1:JADE:1:INDIGO:1:BLACK:1:CRIMSON:1:COBALT:1:YELLOW:1:EMERALD:1]
        [TLCM_NOUN:crest-feathers:PLURAL]   
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:TAIL:FEATHER]           
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]
        [TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:70:90:100:110:130:200]      
          [APP_MOD_NOUN:tail-fan:SINGULAR]
      [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GREEN:1:TURQUOISE:1:TEAL:1:SLATE_GRAY:1:SEA_GREEN:1:SCARLET:1:RED:1:PURPLE:1:MIDNIGHT_BLUE:1:MAROON:1:JADE:1:INDIGO:1:BLACK:1:CRIMSON:1:COBALT:1]
          [TLCM_NOUN:tail-feathers:PLURAL]    
   [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SCALE]
         [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GREEN:1:TURQUOISE:1:TEAL:1:SLATE_GRAY:1:SEA_GREEN:1:SCARLET:1:RED:1:PURPLE:1:MIDNIGHT_BLUE:1:MAROON:1:JADE:1:INDIGO:1:BLACK:1:CRIMSON:1:COBALT:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:scales:PLURAL]
      [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
   [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_AQUA:1:IRIS_EYE_AQUAMARINE:1:IRIS_EYE_AZURE:1:IRIS_EYE_BLUE:1:IRIS_EYE_CERULEAN:1:IRIS_EYE_DARK_BLUE:1:IRIS_EYE_DARK_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_DARK_OLIVE:1:IRIS_EYE_EMERALD:1:IRIS_EYE_FERN_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_JADE:1:IRIS_EYE_LIGHT_BLUE:1:IRIS_EYE_MINT_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_MOSS_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_OLIVE:1:IRIS_EYE_PALE_BLUE:1:IRIS_EYE_PINE_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_SEA_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_SKY_BLUE:1:IRIS_EYE_SPRING_GREEN:1:IRIS_EYE_TEAL:1:IRIS_EYE_TURQUOISE:1:IRIS_EYE_AMBER:1:IRIS_EYE_GOLD:1:IRIS_EYE_GOLDEN_YELLOW:1:IRIS_EYE_YELLOW:1]
            [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

The references to LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT egg materials are there but not the "use these material templates" tag. Or else I missed it, which is entirely possible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Knight Otu on April 07, 2011, 04:51:01 pm

Well, the crash that Deon mentioned seems to occur when an entity has a reaction/tool related to a job that the entity lacks. Or maybe it is restricted to beekeeping. The dyansauri only seem to lack the PLANTER job though in InsanityPrelude's raws.

Mephansteras: Creatures that lay egg all have a BODY_DETAIL_PLAN that adds the egg materials to the creature, which the dyansauri lack at least in InsanityPrelude's raws.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 07, 2011, 05:53:28 pm

Yeah, I have those in my RAWS but not the one he showed. Maybe have not made it in or something like that. The last release got worked on multiple computers, so it's entirely possible things were a little out of synch. I'll have to go in and make sure all the egg-layers have those tags. I'll put out a patch release for that sometime soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: volnrok on April 09, 2011, 10:34:54 am

Hey people of Civ Forge!

I have one problem with the Land Striders included with CF. They are too big.
Butchering one gives about 270 meat and plenty of other meat bits.
With the new grazer update in DF recently, all of my land striders are starving to death. This is because they have the tag [GRAZER:12], meaning that they eat as much as elephants. To quote the DF wiki here http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Pasture (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Pasture):

Quote

It is believed that each time unit adds one point to hunger. An animal takes an average of one turn per ten time units, and so a creature of standard speed and agility with [GRAZER:10] would have to eat grass on every single one of its turns just to stave off starvation. Since it takes another turn just to move to the next tile to graze, anything with [GRAZER:20] or less is completely incapable of feeding itself enough grass, even if enough is available. Because of this, the larger creatures like dralthas are virtually impossible to keep fed, and elephants are incapable of feeding themselves fast enough to stave off starvation.

Also, by comparison, a grown elephant has size 5 000 000, and a land strider 8 000 000.
Just a question: Are land striders supposed to be the size of elephants?

Aside from that, I really like this mod, especially the alchemy and other races.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 09, 2011, 11:25:03 am

Yes, Land Striders are supposed to be larger than Elephants. They're basically Wagon replacements, since wagons are busted and the idea of a horse bringing in 3000 lbs of goods on its back was a bit ridiculous.

I do need to fix Elephants and Land Striders to not eat quite so much, though. At least until Toady gets that issue fixed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: volnrok on April 09, 2011, 08:47:31 pm

Just making sure.

For now I'll just go into the raws and arbitrarily increase their GRAZER amount.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: jaxy15 on April 10, 2011, 01:35:54 pm

Oh god, why did you never tell anyone that land striders can be dangerous?
My carpenter died because one got pissed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Kon on April 10, 2011, 08:07:52 pm

Quote from: Umbreon on March 26, 2011, 11:41:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 26, 2011, 12:37:42 pm

@Umbreon: No, they should show up just fine. Double-check your entity_default file in the raws. You should see all of the custom workshops show up there in the dwarven entry. Also check your error log to see if it's complaining about missing stuff.

Turns out the "entity_default" raw didn't extract itself. Did it manually and it works fine, thanks! :D

I had the same problem, more or less. "entity_default" did not overwrite the vanilla "entity_default." I copied it over manually, and it worked. However, the following is missing from the Civ Forge "entity_default":

   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:ALCHEMY_WORKBENCH]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS_MAGMA]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 10, 2011, 11:15:18 pm

Quote from: Kon on April 10, 2011, 08:07:52 pm

Quote from: Umbreon on March 26, 2011, 11:41:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 26, 2011, 12:37:42 pm

@Umbreon: No, they should show up just fine. Double-check your entity_default file in the raws. You should see all of the custom workshops show up there in the dwarven entry. Also check your error log to see if it's complaining about missing stuff.

Turns out the "entity_default" raw didn't extract itself. Did it manually and it works fine, thanks! :D

I had the same problem, more or less. "entity_default" did not overwrite the vanilla "entity_default." I copied it over manually, and it worked. However, the following is missing from the Civ Forge "entity_default":

   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:ALCHEMY_WORKBENCH]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS_MAGMA]

You shouldn't need any of those any more. Is there a lingering reference to them somewhere?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: volnrok on April 11, 2011, 09:12:20 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 10, 2011, 11:15:18 pm

Is there a lingering reference to them [Alchemy Workbench, Jarmaker's] somewhere?

Yes, in the file "building_alchemy_cf.txt". I didn't find mention to these buildings in any of the civilization raws, so I think you're good there. "Alchemy Basics.txt" also refers to alchemical transport tubes, a workaround which I believe is no longer used in Civ Forge alchemy.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 11, 2011, 09:18:45 pm

Ah. Those are still in there for debugging purposes. As long as no one is trying to build them or use them in the entity files it's fine.

Thought I got all the references for Transport tubes out of the Alchemy Basics file, though. I'll have to fix that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: ojd on April 11, 2011, 09:41:37 pm

I just tried to make Tempered Crystal and found a problem.  When creating Ikal Nabid it used the same jar that had crystal seed in it.  I forbid that jar and tried again, and it used a new jar but only 1.  That jar had 5 Ikal Nabid in it, instead of 5 separate jars.  The tempering chamber acts as if I don't have the raw materials.  Any Ideas?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 11, 2011, 11:21:45 pm

Hmm. Odd that it acts like you don't have the materials. It usually sticks 5 in the same jar, but the reaction always worked fine for me. I'll run a few tests and see if I can figure out what might be causing the problem.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.4 - DF31.21 update released!
Post by: Kon on April 12, 2011, 10:22:40 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 10, 2011, 11:15:18 pm

Quote from: Kon on April 10, 2011, 08:07:52 pm

Quote from: Umbreon on March 26, 2011, 11:41:02 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 26, 2011, 12:37:42 pm

@Umbreon: No, they should show up just fine. Double-check your entity_default file in the raws. You should see all of the custom workshops show up there in the dwarven entry. Also check your error log to see if it's complaining about missing stuff.

Turns out the "entity_default" raw didn't extract itself. Did it manually and it works fine, thanks! :D

I had the same problem, more or less. "entity_default" did not overwrite the vanilla "entity_default." I copied it over manually, and it worked. However, the following is missing from the Civ Forge "entity_default":

   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:ALCHEMY_WORKBENCH]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS]
   [PERMITTED_BUILDING:JARMAKERS_MAGMA]

You shouldn't need any of those any more. Is there a lingering reference to them somewhere?

They are still referenced in one of the txt files. After building a  JARMAKERS_MAGMA and seeing it didn't work, I figured I didn't need it. Sorry for the confusion. Are jars no longer needed at all? I made a few clay and glass jars in case I do. Getting Alchemy up and running has been a bit of a pain due to a shortage of ingredients. Been trying to get the dwarf caravan to bring some of them. Main goal is to convert my True Silver to Mithril.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 12, 2011, 11:19:17 am

You do need jars, but since they're craftable at the normal workshops now you don't need the jarmaker's workshop anymore.

Most of the basic ingredients can be ordered as either stones or powders. Powder is better, since it weighs a lot less, but some stuff has to be ordered in boulder form.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: jomen on April 14, 2011, 11:50:33 am

Hi ,

I will try to explain my case as english is not my mother tongue.

So

I try to play Civforge with an other mod : Flora and Fauna fort 31.25 et the Cuisine Mod which add more meal type.

The game works , but i can't play Dwarf civ when i launch the Fortress mod. I have Elves instead. What could i do to play dwarves again ? Or it's not possible to merge other mods with civforge and play dwarves ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 14, 2011, 12:50:04 pm

That means there is a duplicate entry in the raws somewhere. Check the error file, it should tell you what the duplicate is.

Then you just need to go into the raws and add something like _2 to the end of the name.

So, for example, if you had two entries for [CREATURE:BIRD_RAVEN] you'd need to either delete one of the entries or rename one of them to [CREATURE:BIRD_RAVEN_2]. That will make the game work, although you'd have two versions of ravens flying around.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: jomen on April 14, 2011, 01:19:31 pm

thank you very much ! i will try this

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 15, 2011, 01:17:49 am

I just noticed that the various alchemical powders are getting dumped on the floor when made, cluttering the workshop. I haven't touched the reactions so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on April 15, 2011, 10:04:37 pm

I've just finished combining the 31.25 version of CivForge with Mayday graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800). Apologies for the delay - I've been meaning to do this since 31.19, but this is my first real break from class/work since it released.

This is more 'official' than the 31.18 version I made: I started from fresh copies of DF/CF/DFG, there are definitely no gameplay changes to CivForge, just added the graphics (well, and overwrote CivForge's custom languages with the default ones to avoid associated graphical bugs). Of course most of the creatures added since 31.18 don't have graphics yet, and neither do a few odd CivForge features such as Land Striders. I did fix corpses of CivForge races since the last version; now they show up as appropriate letters rather than random furniture graphics.

Anyway for those of you that want graphical CivForge without the hassle of piecing it together yourself, this is it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on April 16, 2011, 11:55:38 pm

Mephansteras, you have a MAMMOTH_WOLLY in creature_large_tundra.txt - pretty sure that's supposed to be a Woolly Mammoth? Discovered this while trying to figure out why the mammoth graphic wasn't linking properly (fixed in latest CivForge+Mayday graphics upload, along with a couple other minor bugs).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 17, 2011, 12:53:22 am

Huh. That ancient misspelling is still around? Damn. I'll have to fix that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: tigervx on April 20, 2011, 06:35:47 pm

So I'm messing around with Legend Viewer in Civilization Forge, and I've found something peculiar.

In 794, late winter, The Onslaught of Rages occured as part of The Riddled War waged by The Hairy Claws  on The Incenses of Ink  at Helmedfield.



The Hairy Claws  (Attacker) 12 Members, 6 Losses [Load]

8 Bugbears , 6 Losses

the bugbear Tew Laudnightmares
the bugbear Merun Hoaryleak
the bugbear Dubevequ Hellwoman
the bugbear Bewet Specialdrool (Led the Attack)
  Victor

The Incenses of Ink  (Defender) 3766 Members, 3323 Losses [Load]

1850 Hobgoblins , 1850 Losses

844 Ant Giants , 439 Losses

430 Beetle Giants , 420 Losses

404 Land Striders , 399 Losses

195 Elf Highs , 177 Losses

26 Bugbears , 26 Losses

6 Bear Grizzlies , 6 Losses

4 Jaguars , 2 Losses

4 Leopards , 4 Losses

the elf high Naihi Dipswamp
the elf high Ethaiteay Fishtapered
the elf high Ceipaath Valeguards (Led the Defense)
 

Event Log
In 794, late winter, The Hairy Claws  attacked The Scale of Harmonizing of The Incenses of Ink  at Helmedfield. the bugbear Bewet Specialdrool led the attack, and the defenders were led by the elf high Ceipaath Valeguards. In The Onslaught of Rages as part of The Riddled War.

Bug Bears ARE GODLESS KILLING MACHINES in history, is this because civilizations dont use equipment during World Gen so they just massacre everyone or some other reason? I checked some other Bugbear Civs and they seem the same.

Seriously, the Onslaught of Rages indeed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 20, 2011, 06:58:32 pm

World gen battles are silly. Not sure how that worked out, since the Land Striders could probably squish 6 bugbears all on their own, but obviously the RNG likes them.

Well, at least during world gen. They don't do that well in actual game combat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on April 20, 2011, 10:21:14 pm

For those who already downloaded CivForge with Mayday Graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800), you may want to redownload the latest version - this one fixes the bugged graphics for dwarves whose highest skill is one of the new professions (i.e. that invaluable high master shearer migrant), along with a few other minor fixes.

If like me you already have a save you don't want to lose, you can fix the bugged dwarf graphics by downloading the latest version and just copying the new /raw/graphics/graphics_mayday.txt file into your existing data/save/region1/raw/graphics folder (where 'region1' is whatever your save is called). Don't copy anything else, some of the other bug fixes aren't save compatible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 21, 2011, 06:11:49 pm

Hello Ult1mara here, a youtube LPer.

I am trying to do a lot of DF mods as LPs atm on Youtube. And I was wondering if u would allow me to do an LP on ur mod? It seems pretty good I enjoy playing large mods ^_^. And I prefer doing LPs more than playing them lol

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 21, 2011, 06:28:55 pm

Sure, go ahead. You can even post a link to your channel here if you'd like.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 21, 2011, 06:50:30 pm

I will be posting a link to each vid/playlist I do of this mod? If u would like?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 21, 2011, 07:13:09 pm

I'm fine with it. If it annoys other people you can just have the link to your main Youtube playlist and people can subscribe from there if they like.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 21, 2011, 08:49:04 pm

I keep seeing dorfs/goblins/etc. with cloth chain coifs running around. :|a As with the alchemy bug though, I didn't mess with those raws at all, and I don't see anything about cloth in them...

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4235 Here's a save that demonstrates both that and the "dumping powders on the floor" issue. (The bug I actually uploaded it for turned out not to be a bug.)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 22, 2011, 01:34:45 am

Thanks for the save, I'll check it out.

The cloth coif thing is silly, but it's more a game bug than a mod bug. Because chain coifs are flexible the game makes them out of cloth when people spawn, even though you can't actually make them from cloth. Same way the game spawns people with cloth quivers.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Kon on April 24, 2011, 10:31:05 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 12, 2011, 11:19:17 am

You do need jars, but since they're craftable at the normal workshops now you don't need the jarmaker's workshop anymore.

Most of the basic ingredients can be ordered as either stones or powders. Powder is better, since it weighs a lot less, but some stuff has to be ordered in boulder form.

I can't construct an Oil Press for pressing Tunnel Tube into Oil. Should I be able to construct an Oil Press? The Oil can be used to create Midnight Elixir. Btw, I can't press Tunnel Tubes in the new Screw Press either.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 24, 2011, 04:02:22 pm

Ah. You don't need to press tunnel tubes anymore. You can use the rock nuts oil now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 24, 2011, 06:13:46 pm

Another thing I was wondering. Is there any chance of getting a graphics pack with the DL?

Say like Ironhand? Or Pheobus? Or Mayday? Instead of just the ASCII version?

If there is that would be GREAT thanks again

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 24, 2011, 07:14:55 pm

Quote from: Anathema on April 20, 2011, 10:21:14 pm

For those who already downloaded CivForge with Mayday Graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800), you may want to redownload the latest version - this one fixes the bugged graphics for dwarves whose highest skill is one of the new professions (i.e. that invaluable high master shearer migrant), along with a few other minor fixes.

If like me you already have a save you don't want to lose, you can fix the bugged dwarf graphics by downloading the latest version and just copying the new /raw/graphics/graphics_mayday.txt file into your existing data/save/region1/raw/graphics folder (where 'region1' is whatever your save is called). Don't copy anything else, some of the other bug fixes aren't save compatible.

Anathema has one.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 24, 2011, 08:25:13 pm

Thank You very very much this is great now I can do my recordings ^_^

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on April 24, 2011, 11:27:56 pm

Quote from: Ult1mara on April 24, 2011, 08:25:13 pm

Thank You very very much this is great now I can do my recordings ^_^

FYI I used Mayday graphics (if you prefer Ironhand or Phoebus you're on your own, and I must warn you converting a graphic set to cover all of CivForge's new plants/animals/civs/etc is a bit of a pain :P).

But anyway, it's mostly Mayday - just a few additions from another graphics package to cover the new CivForge stuff, and some arbitrary changes of my own compared to vanilla Mayday (just because I like stone/soil appearance to be more consistent and ores easier to tell apart). Gameplay-wise it's unaltered CivForge though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Kon on April 25, 2011, 10:47:40 am

The Alum I'm making from Alum Shale is cluttering up my Alchemist's Workshop. I couldn't figure out what stock pile Alum is supposed to go to. For now, I think I need to make just a little bit of Alum and then use it before making more. I'm using the Alum to make Emen Aren, which is used to separate Mithril from Truesilver. Btw, this fort is a real challenge--my only metals are Zinc and Nickel, and I have no sand. Been trading for iron ore, steel, sand, alum shale, truesilver, etc. Thanks for answering my questions, Mephansteras.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 25, 2011, 10:55:02 am

Alchemical items that are in jars or jugs should just go into a general goods stockpile. I like to make a largish one that only holds tools near my alchemy area.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Kon on April 25, 2011, 11:50:46 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 25, 2011, 10:55:02 am

Alchemical items that are in jars or jugs should just go into a general goods stockpile. I like to make a largish one that only holds tools near my alchemy area.

The Alum isn't going into jars or jugs. But, I'll take another look when I get home from work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 25, 2011, 12:46:18 pm

Quote from: Kon on April 25, 2011, 11:50:46 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on April 25, 2011, 10:55:02 am

Alchemical items that are in jars or jugs should just go into a general goods stockpile. I like to make a largish one that only holds tools near my alchemy area.

The Alum isn't going into jars or jugs. But, I'll take another look when I get home from work.

Powder ending up on the ground is a bug I'm looking at. Not sure where it ends up just as a powder.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: InsanityPrelude on April 25, 2011, 06:11:37 pm

I just tested reactions with bags as the powder container instead of jars, and that works fine.

I'd say the game just seems to have a problem with putting powders in liquid containers, since the liquid alchemy reagents are produced into jars without a problem, except I use the expanded glazes mod too and the glaze powders go into jugs without a hitch. Not sure what's going on here.

Edit: Tried reducing the capacity of jugs back to default, since Expanded Glazes increases it, and got glaze dumped all over the floor in the same fashion. So the problem here is probably that jars can't hold enough.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 25, 2011, 06:40:27 pm

Hmmm. Maybe I should have powders go into jugs instead of jars.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Dave1004 on April 25, 2011, 09:01:35 pm

I would love to download this, but if it doesn't work with Ironhand's pack, then it's a no-go...Ah, well, whatever. Sounds awesome though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ult1mara on April 27, 2011, 11:18:52 pm

Here is my first video for the LP I will be doing of this mod. I hope u all like it and please give me some feedback for wat u think of the video ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOIYA9YZxK4

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on April 28, 2011, 11:38:07 am

Looks like you're off to a decent start. One note, though, bronze doesn't take a 1-1 tin/copper ratio in Civilization Forge. It actually has a somewhat more realistic ratio of 1 tin to 4 copper. The actual ratio is about 10% tin, but that got a bit excessive since we only work with whole bars right now. So you'll find yourself with a good bit of extra tin lying around. Not a bad thing, since copper is easier to get and much cheaper, but I figured you should know.

You might also want to read the AlchemyBasics file. It'll explain a bit more about how all the new alchemy buildings work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Teneb on May 01, 2011, 02:27:51 pm

[REDACTED]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 02, 2011, 03:39:45 pm

Yeah, at some point I need to rework the various colored marbles into something more realistic. Right now they're just sort of filler junk that I threw in to make things more interesting.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: utuki on May 04, 2011, 11:41:00 am

(http://i.imgur.com/TsCRy.png)
-_- and most dwarves seem to like alchemy items. and there are very few funky stones on map  :'(

Alchemy crystals are annoying to look for in caverns, maybe use different tile then normal gems ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: utuki on May 08, 2011, 03:36:44 pm

Mephansteras are you sure [UBSTEP:MAX] in hauburk works ? i am getting consistent bitten off arms only at upper arm which it is supposed to cover. Vanilla df doesnt use this setting on armor, only on cover.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 08, 2011, 06:41:39 pm

Hmm, I thought my original testing showed that working. I might need to check things again.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: utuki on May 10, 2011, 06:18:52 pm

I tested hauberks, they work properly, seems i just got unlucky several times with those damned giant ants.
Do you think it would be possible to spread evil civilization to different  game progress stages according to their strength ?
Jars seem to have too little capacity, i had to set it to 5000 to get them to work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 12, 2011, 10:40:13 am

This is a nice mod and I use pieces of it to play DF. However, I spotted a few things that bug me.

The first two are name gripes:

First, you used 'ubal' as the gloss for 'spirit' in 'spirit of salt' (hydrochloric acid). I think 'ubal' means spirit as in disembodied soul, a ghost, or poltergeist. In reacting salt with oil of vitriol, what is formed is sodium sulfate and gaseous hydrogen chloride and steam. The hydrogen chloride and steam is distilled out to yield hydrochloric acid. Thus, this isn't the 'ghost of salt', but the 'distilation product of salt', or more colorfully, the 'rain of salt.'

Second, the gloss of water is 'arel' not 'aren'. Aqua fortis should be 'emen arel', and aqua regia should be 'relon arel'.

The second two are chemistry gripes:

The chemistry for preparing magnesium sulfate (aka, epsom salts) from dolomite, talc and olivine does not work out. Dolomite is primarily the carbonate of calcium and magnesium, while talc and olivine are the silicates of magnesium and magnesium/iron. There's no sulfur in either of them. You'll need sulfuric acid to prepare it.

In the case of dolomite, you'll get not only the magnesium sulfate (epsomite/epsom salts), but you will also get a precipitate of hydrous calcium sulfate (gypsum) and carbonic acid as by-products. The epsomite will be in solution, and you will need to wash the precipitate with water, and then boil off the carbonic acid from the wash to recover the epsomite. Similarly with talc and olivine — you will get a precipitate of silicates, and the epsomite will be in solution, this time only of water. Wash with water, and boil the wash to recover the epsomite.

(I'm not a chemist, so I'm not sure the reaction will work, but it's closer to reality than the current reaction.)

Finally, your oil of vitriol preparation needs water to be complete. What you get by baking the green vitriol is gaseous sulfur trioxide, which you need to let dissolve in steam (hence water), and then distil it out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2011, 11:24:48 am

They chemisty of a lot of it is really rough. Water would be used for most things, to be honest. So I made some sacrifices to keep things marginally less complex for the player. As it is I think the whole Alchemy aspect is largely ignored by a lot of people. So some of it gets glossed over or simplified to make things more manageable.

I'll look at the word issues, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 12, 2011, 11:56:48 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 12, 2011, 11:24:48 am

So some of it gets glossed over or simplified to make things more manageable.

"Manageable?"

This! Is! DWARF FORTRESS!!! :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 12, 2011, 08:44:23 pm

Obviously I don't speak for Wyrm here (your chemistry is.. impressive, by the way. Armok help us if alchemy ever gets that realistic), but personally I'd give up some chemical realism if it made alchemy more usable. The end results are certainly worthwhile, but there are two barriers to actually getting alchemy to work:

-It's difficult to get all the necessary ingredients in a single embark, particularly with the 31.19+ changes; there tends to be less variety now, you have a lot of a few types of mineral/other rare stone and none of anything else. Your chances of having all the necessary ingredients to, say, make mithril on a given embark are slim; it takes some looking just to find an embark where you can make steel, which is about half as complicated as mithril. Alchemy needs to be less dependent on certain key materials: for example needing the (in my experience) relatively rare chalcanthite or melanerite to make Emen Aren, which is required for most of alchemy. Can these minerals be made more common, or a third alternative provided, or what if you got a lot more Emen Aren from each reaction (or used less of it) such that importing or embarking with a few melanerite boulders was all you needed? I feel like finding the actual truesilver/elemental crystal should be the difficult part, yet being able to make enough Emen Aren is the harsher restriction in my experience, and you need this stuff for practically everything.

-It's difficult to figure out how the system works; too many reactions, ingredients, buildings. I say this as someone who scaled vanilla DF's patented Learning Cliff of Doom^TM and decided it just wasn't complicated enough, so I downloaded CivForge - anyone who gets this far is a gamer not scared off by a little complexity.

Anyway I spent quite some time pouring over the alchemy basics txt and the wonderful alchemy flowchart (http://www.brightsoft.net/AlchemyGraph.png) (which should be linked in the first post!), and abusing dfprospector to try and find an embark that actually had the ingredients I needed to get some alchemy going - ultimately the best site I could find had tons of truesilver, a little chalcanthite hidden somewhere, everything else I needed, except.. no saltpeter, so I gave up. Weeks later I accidentally stumbled across the building that makes saltpeter from potash, I hadn't realized I didn't even need natural saltpeter. The documentation is good, the information's all there, there's just too much of it - with so many steps and buildings and ingredients involved, it's easy to miss a crucial little thing like the saltpeter beds. If it were up to me I'd merge some of the building functions (4 separate buildings to make mithril bars, including saltpeter beds and jarmaker's shop, is a little much), and abstract out a few unneeded intermediate reactions, i.e. use chalcanthite directly for Emen Aren instead of turning it into blue vitriol first.

Not that I'm complaining; if I can continue fending off of half a dozen hostile races with crucible steel while ignoring that whole 'alchemy' system, I'll still enjoy the mod. Just saying if you wanted more folks like me to actually use alchemy, addressing the above issues would help.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 13, 2011, 07:30:11 am

I would agree with you, but none of the changes I suggested should be a problem from an acquiring materials standpoint. In the current CF, you are not able to create mithril unless you are also able to create sulfuric acid. And the addition of water to make sulfuric acid... if you have absolutely no water on your embark, you are in really deep trouble.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2011, 09:48:49 am

Well, with the new version you can order the powders that you need. They aren't that expensive to start with a bunch at embark and pretty easy to import if that's all you ask for. They aren't even that heavy. I'm pretty sure that all of the basic alchemical reactions can be met with just the various powders and saltpeter.

It does sound like the Alchemy Basics file could stand a re-write to make things easier to understand, though.

@Wyrm: Water is reasonable for most things, except that I'm not sure that I can make it part of a reaction yet. I know that prior to .19 it was impossible. I haven't looked too hard in the new version, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 13, 2011, 03:13:25 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 13, 2011, 09:48:49 am

Well, with the new version you can order the powders that you need. They aren't that expensive to start with a bunch at embark and pretty easy to import if that's all you ask for. They aren't even that heavy. I'm pretty sure that all of the basic alchemical reactions can be met with just the various powders and saltpeter.

I've considered importing, but I'm skeptical that it's worthwhile. Consider your options:

-Import green vitriol
-Find truesilver
-Create saltpeter
-Create Emen Aren
-Smelt 5x (or was it 10x?) truesilver to get (on average) a bar of mithril

or:
-Import mithril

To make importing green vitriol worthwhile, it'd have to generate a lot more mithril than you'd get by requesting mithril bars directly (cost is, in general, a nonissue except at embark). If I ask for nothing but bars of mithril, incendium, glacium, etc., the dwarves will bring me.. say about 10-20. If I ask for nothing but green vitriol, can I get enough to make significantly more than 20 bars? Well, I'll find a good truesilver embark and try it for the sake of !!Science!!, we'll see if it's practical.

I should clarify that now that I've figured out the learning curve, I actually enjoy the added complexity of making your own mithril - I just expect that same complexity is a big factor in keeping others from using alchemy, it took me a while to get the hang of it myself. And unless you get many more bars by importing ingredients and doing your own alchemy than by simply importing bars, there's not much incentive to go through with that added complexity (assuming you can't find a dwarf heaven embark with all the ingredients you need readily available).

Edit: Ah, and Wyrm, I don't object with the addition of water to the reaction in theory - it certainly makes sense, and most embarks should have it available. It's just that in practice, that's a few extra steps (you would need to create/designate a water source and make buckets) added to a system that, I think, is already more complicated than it needs to be. That's just my preference, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2011, 04:42:38 pm

I imagine that as the trade system gets more complex and reasonable that this will all average out. Mithril should be pretty expensive/rare and once you can't just trade a bunch of masterwork mugs for a bar I think importing relatively cheap alchemy components to use the truesilver you have will be a good option.

A lot of this mod is sort of a looking-ahead sort of thing, so stuff doesn't always make the most sense for a given version.

I am curious to know how well your science works out, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 13, 2011, 06:34:23 pm

Quite right. Once scarcity becomes an issue (we'll see how relative abundancies play a role in DF), simply requesting mithril directly will not net you a bunch of mithril.

Now, I noticed something verrry interesting when I was trolling the Wikipedia: if you drop zinc into copper sulfate, the copper will get displaced by the zinc, and you'll get a precipitate of copper and zinc sulfate. Now, if you have zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, zinc and (now) copper, some jars, and some salt (to make a salt bridge), you've got the makings of a galvanic cell.

In short, electrochemistry.

Won't allow you to directly smelt aluminum by way of the Hall-Héroult process, but it will allow you to separate alkali metals like potassium and sodium from their hydroxides. You can use hydrochloric acid to turn alumina into aluminum chloride, and after carefully dehydrating it, you can then react the anhydrous aluminum chloride and sodium/potassium to yield metallic aluminum. The alkali grabbed up the chlorine from the aluminum, leaving the poor old aluminum behind.

I put this out because it's long bugged me that while most of the minerals (which aren't completely made up) are geologically plausible, native aluminum is not. Aluminum is never found naturally in metallic form; it's is just too reactive. With this, you can have your expensive aluminum, without needing a bogus natural mineral type.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2011, 07:17:03 pm

Hmmm. Not a bad idea.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 14, 2011, 12:53:03 pm

Yeah, I expect the entire trading system is skewed until the volume of trade goes up drastically (perhaps when wagons come back at long last?). Currently I could assign 10 dwarves to creating [anything, let's say pig tail socks], and in a year generate enough pig tail socks to buy out a caravan full of mithril battle axes. Not that there's anything wrong with pig tail socks, the quantities are just skewed; no matter what they choose to make, those 10 dwarves could make enough of it to buy out any caravan, the caravans just don't bring enough to make you consider cost.

I assumed earlier that a caravan could bring about 20 bars of mithril if you asked for nothing else, which may seem like a lot, but compare it to how much crucible steel (about 1/2 value of mithril) a fort could generate in a year - more than enough to trade for those 20 mithril. Now if the caravan was bringing, say, 200 mithril, I'd have to stop and think if I could actually afford that much, and consider asking for cheaper green vitriol instead. Not that mithril should ever be that common, just making a point that the low quantities caravans bring are the problem.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 14, 2011, 12:56:48 pm

That and no trader would buy that many socks unless they could sell them somewhere at a good enough mark up to make the trip worthwhile. So flooding the market with socks might work one year, but you'd have to do something else the next year or you won't sell any. I imagine that you'd also have to sell them at a lower cost to convince the merchant to take so many.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 14, 2011, 01:00:57 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on May 14, 2011, 12:56:48 pm

That and no trader would buy that many socks unless they could sell them somewhere at a good enough mark up to make the trip worthwhile. So flooding the market with socks might work one year, but you'd have to do something else the next year or you won't sell any. I imagine that you'd also have to sell them at a lower cost to convince the merchant to take so many.

Supply and demand is, indeed, a whole 'nother problem that I hope Dwarf Fortress doesn't implement anytime soon - I love trading my precious stone crafts to the gullible merchants year after year.

I mean of course it would make trading more realistic, which is a good thing, but it's a pretty drastic change - it'll force everyone to rethink their strategies for dealing with caravans.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 15, 2011, 03:50:19 am

So I did some testing, saving and backing up a new fort just before speaking to the first liaison, then seeing what they brought with the second caravan depending on my import requests - keeping everything but the import requests as constant as possible. I ran 4 tests, twice asking for powder and twice for bars.

It seems apparent in all tests that they'll bring at most 4 of any particular item; 4 bars of mithril, 4 bags of green vitriol powder (10 units per bag), etc. So really if importing superior metals that you can't make on site is your primary goal, you'd be best off requesting everything, bars and powders alike; but if you have to choose:

40 green vitriol powder and 40 blue vitriol powder works out to 140 Emen Aren if I understand the alchemy correctly (5 green = 5 Emen Aren, 2 blue + some alum = 5 Emen Aren). So assuming you have sufficient truesilver, wood or natural saltpeter, and sand for alchemy jars, then you can import 140 Emen Aren a year and alchemize it into an average of 28 mithril bars. This is about enough to fully outfit two dwarves.

Obviously this is better than just importing 4 mithril bars, but if your aim is to get anything better than crucible steel (i.e. any of the alchemical metals), then you can request 28 bars of superior-to-crucible steel metal (4 each of mithril, orihalcum, void crystal, and the 4 elemental metals).

So I guess it depends - importing bars gets you 28 better-than-crucible steel bars ready to use, although the other 6 varieties aren't quite as good as mithril, and 3 of them are limited as to what you can make them into (i.e. incendium only makes weapons). Importing powders instead allows you to make 28 mithril, the best bar that can be imported, although it depends on plentiful truesilver and other reagents on site, not to mention the whole alchemy process. I can see importing powders (or whatever other reagent one is missing) being practical if you discover your map has plenty of everything but that one reagent, otherwise it would seem simply importing bars is better.

Again you'll probably just want to request everything, any bar you can't make on site and any alchemical reagents you lack, you'll probably get 4 of each item.. and no matter what you request, it'd be far better to find a site that already has everything needed to make mithril. The 4-item limit hamstrings a fort that tries to rely on trade for metal, outfitting 4 dwarves a year (ideally, if you get 28 bars and enough powder to make 28 more) just doesn't seem like enough.

Ah, and this may seem obvious, but I ran another test to confirm it: requesting any kind of stone is a very bad idea. Try asking for truesilver, chalcanthite, etc., and you'll get 3 or 4 stones that take up most of the weight limit and they barely have room for anything else.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on May 15, 2011, 09:32:09 am

If you give the caravan hefty surpluses, that is less of a problem. Once yhey start bringing extra animals, weight is a non-issue.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on May 15, 2011, 02:55:17 pm

True. And if they bring elephants or Land Striders as their animals they can carry a huge amount of stuff. But generally stones are a bad idea.

I think it'll be better once you can order amounts of stuff. Put in an order for 10 bags of each of the powders you need and with a decent truesilver stock you can trade silver crafts for alchemical powders and keep the mithril for your troops. Not a bad trade arrangement for the fort.

In the long run I think it'll work out ok. In the meantime you can also get tons of metals just by melting down all the weapons and armor your enemies leave behind, which sort of upsets the balance a bit anyway.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on May 15, 2011, 08:12:53 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on May 15, 2011, 09:32:09 am

If you give the caravan hefty surpluses, that is less of a problem. Once yhey start bringing extra animals, weight is a non-issue.

I gave them enough of a surplus the first time around, that the second caravan (the one I based my tests on) brought 3 giant beetles instead of 2. Even with 3 beetles, they were able to bring only 3 stones, and 3 powder bags - we're talking 6 items total on 3 beetles, absolutely nothing else. Asking for just powder instead got me 8 powder bags plus a ton of other random stuff using up the extra weight. Even if they brought 6 beetles, that's.. not very many stones. I still think asking for stones is a bad idea :P

Now if they used elephants or land striders instead it'd be a different story, but for some reason the dwarves always seem to use giant beetles in my CivForge experience. Other races sometimes bring better pack animals, but since you can't request what they bring, it just results in that much more cloth..

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Thundercraft on May 15, 2011, 10:50:22 pm

Quote from: Wyrm on May 13, 2011, 06:34:23 pm

electrochemistry...
...Won't allow you to directly smelt aluminum by way of the Hall-Héroult process, but it will allow you to separate alkali metals like potassium and sodium from their hydroxides. You can use hydrochloric acid to turn alumina into aluminum chloride, and after carefully dehydrating it, you can then react the anhydrous aluminum chloride and sodium/potassium to yield metallic aluminum. The alkali grabbed up the chlorine from the aluminum, leaving the poor old aluminum behind.

I put this out because it's long bugged me that while most of the minerals (which aren't completely made up) are geologically plausible, native aluminum is not. Aluminum is never found naturally in metallic form; it's is just too reactive. With this, you can have your expensive aluminum, without needing a bogus natural mineral type.

Yes, the availability of native aluminum also bothered me.

As for the chemical extraction of aluminum, I remember thinking along similar lines years ago, when I was in high school. I found the concept of a strictly chemical production alternative to the Hall-Héroult process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall-Héroult_process) to be interesting. Considering how abundant aluminum salts and minerals are in the Earth's crust, I thought at first that it might allow for even cheaper production of aluminum.

But the problem with using hydrochloric acid or other reducing agents is how cost prohibitive that would be. And then there's the issue of disposing/treating the end products. Such a method would not be cheap on an industrial scale, even compared with the hundreds of thousands of Amperes consumed in industrial aluminum electrolysis cells.

Still, I could imagine a society of industrious dwarves who might be able to produce the chemicals and minerals needed, especially if aluminum is valuable enough to warrant the costs and effort. Considering that they most likely butcher lots of animals for food and leather, why couldn't they save the stomach contents from butchering and distill to make hydrochloric acid?

I do hope Mephansteras considers adding an alchemical reaction for producing aluminum and removing the possibility of finding native aluminum.

That said, under Production and Refinement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum#Production_and_refinement), the Wikipedia article on aluminum mentions a new production method:

Quote

Compared to most other metals, it [aluminum] is difficult to extract from ore, such as bauxite, due to the energy required to reduce aluminium oxide (Al2O3). For example, direct reduction with carbon, as is used to produce iron, is not chemically possible, since aluminium is a stronger reducing agent than carbon. There is an indirect carbothermic reduction possible by using carbon and Al2O3, which forms an intermediate Al4C3 and this can further yield aluminium metal at a temperature of 1900-2000°C. This process is still under development. This process costs less energy and yields less CO2 than the Hall-Héroult process...

I was thinking a custom magma-powered furnace could be modded for this new process. But in-game, magma's temperature is only 1,111°C, so it does not seem realistic (on the surface). Wikipedia says magma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magma) is usually in the range of 700°C to 1300°C, so 1111°C seams a reasonable median. Then again, there are a lot of material properties in DF - including temperature - that are unrealistic.

Consider the melting points for iron and steel:

• Pig iron melts at 12106°U = 1170°C
• Iron melts at 12768°U = 1538°C
• Steel melts at 12718°U = 1510°C

In real life, cast iron melts somewhere around 1100°C to 1375 °C, steel melts at about 1400°C and wrought iron (malleable iron) melts around 1500°C. But how can a magma-powered Magma smelter (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Magma_smelter) achieve those temperatures if magma is only 1111°C? Is it the fuel added to the reaction?

Even more extreme is the Magma glass furnace (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Magma_glass_furnace), because in-game glass has a melting point of 2000°C. And no fuel is needed for the reaction. Taking that into consideration, the 1900-2000°C temp range to use the new, non-electrolysis method of reducing aluminum actually seems plausible.

Perhaps dwarves have exceptional furnace technology and an advanced (for a pre-industrial society) understanding of thermodynamics? Or maybe they use magic?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wyrm on May 17, 2011, 06:26:18 pm

Oh, yes, the alternative way to extract hydrochloric acid — stomachs of critters. CF already has a way to produce hydrochloric from sulfuric acid and ordinary salt (which is why hydrochloric acid's alchemical name was 'spirits(distillate) of salt'), however. I would have to think carefully about how one would mod stomach-derived HCl into CF.

As to in-game magma not being able to smelt the stuff its supposed to smelt, the real stuff is quite often ~3000 K up, owing to the orange glow it takes on (blackbody radiation) from volcanoes. I think it was fudged for that reason.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Angle on May 20, 2011, 08:40:28 pm

Maybe you could use a bar of Incendium as a power source?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: utuki on June 01, 2011, 04:50:32 pm

It seems i have hit weird bug - moody dwarves always ask for blazing incendium (4 times now i think, they didnt have preference for it) instead of just metal bars. but when they get it in forge it burns down anything else they bring :(

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 02, 2011, 10:07:46 pm

Hmm. Odd. It shouldn't show up that often as a required metal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on June 03, 2011, 07:00:38 am

Have you considered how you're going to use the new features in next release?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2011, 06:09:40 pm

Only a little bit. Life's been pretty hectic lately, so I haven't had time to do much with dwarf fortress at all. But I've been reading the dev logs and I've got a few ideas percolating. I want to make sure I do something interesting and unique to Civilization Forge, but I haven't decided what that's going to be yet.

But it might involve a revival of the old stone guardians...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Judarud on June 04, 2011, 12:47:54 pm

can you play with other races in fortress mode or just the dwarves

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 04, 2011, 03:25:21 pm

I don't have any versions at the moment that have any other playable races, but it's not that difficult to make one of the others playable instead.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Wes on June 07, 2011, 11:19:52 pm

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but for some reason when I have my dwarves do alchemy instead of putting the resultant products into jars they just leave them as piles in the workshop. Do you know what's causing this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: plantpot on June 19, 2011, 09:51:10 am

i dont know if this has been asked or brought up befor but would it be possible to use pheodus graphics with the mod couse im have't been play DF long but i disslike other tilesets but last time i attempted to instal pheobus with the mod i mucked up and on the walls were there would be an image for a matterial i had cats and trees. but i like the items added so keep up the good work

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on June 27, 2011, 03:46:55 pm

Quote from: plantpot on June 19, 2011, 09:51:10 am

i dont know if this has been asked or brought up befor but would it be possible to use pheodus graphics with the mod couse im have't been play DF long but i disslike other tilesets but last time i attempted to instal pheobus with the mod i mucked up and on the walls were there would be an image for a matterial i had cats and trees. but i like the items added so keep up the good work

I merged Mayday graphics with Civilization Forge, and I assume you could merge Phoebus in the same way if you want to make the effort (it's not that hard if you're comfortable with modding the raws, but it is time-consuming).

Basically, start with a copy of CivForge and a separate copy of Phoebus. Copy the entire raw/graphics folder and data/init/init.txt file from Phoebus to CivForge. Now check all the text files in CivForge's raw/objects folder: if the text file does not end in _cf, open it and see if there's a note at the top saying it's been modified by CivForge. If it hasn't been modified by CivForge, you can overwrite it by copying over the equivalent file from Phoebus. That was all pretty easy to do, and you can stop here and you'll have a basically functional CivForge+Phoebus: anything added/changed by CivForge will have incorrect graphics, but most of the vanilla stuff will display properly at least. The next steps are if you have some time to kill and want more complete graphics.

Now open any raw/object file that ends in _cf or has a note saying it was modified by CivForge (all the ones you didn't replace before), and manually fix every TILE: field (find and replace helps a lot). As far as which tile to use, use Phoebus as a guide: for example when you're selecting tiles for CivForge's minerals, compare to the mineral file in your Phoebus folder and use the same tiles Phoebus does.

Also if you want to stop graphic tiles from appearing in names, this is due to special characters in CivForge's language files, the easiest fix is to overwrite them with vanilla languages. So make a copy of, say, the language_DWARF.txt file from Phoebus, rename it to language_DWARF_CHAOS.txt, and use that to replace CivForge's language_DWARF_CHAOS.txt. Replace all the new CivForge languages with vanilla languages of your choice, and no more graphic tiles appearing in names.

Lastly, figure out how you want new CivForge creatures to display. You have a few choices:
-Do nothing, leaving new critters to display as letters.
-Copy the relevant parts of Drayath's graphics pack (http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html) to fill in the gaps of Phoebus.
-Get graphics from some other source, you could even make them yourself! See Drayath's pack for an example of how to write the .txt files in the graphics folder to make your new tiles work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Goddifist on June 28, 2011, 12:51:07 am

i was wondering and sorry if you ansewered this but......64 is way too many pages but it will be a simple question
i downloaded in was just wondering how do i get the buildings for alchemy?
i mean i did everything right as far as everything else goes. Glacium (i think its spelled) and such.
but i just don't have the buildings.
so yea a little help with that would be...well...helpful.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Seraphyx on June 28, 2011, 09:07:00 am

Hello everyone, firstly this looks like an amazing mod but I have some concerns about it. I play DF casually so I really don't have the time or will to search 68 pages or numerous other topics that are probably discussing this mod, aside from that I'm not very informed on anything modding DF related, so in short I'm a newb.

My first concern is that I "need" to play with a graphics pack, by need I mean highly want, and will not play DF without one just because I can't, it's too much on my brain and it will explode trying to make sense of everything (props to anyone who can play it and prefers it in ASCII). I've seen some posts that mentioned a lot of heavy editing of files, I don't exactly have time to go through and do that and 'hope' that I get everything done correctly. My question is can someone who has already done this for Phobeus(?) graphics pack upload it somewhere? I don't really care which graphics pack I think I'll get used to any, I just prefer Phobeus since that's what I learned to play on.

The second thing is that I saw someone was making a graphics pack specifically for this mod and I have a question about it. How finished is it and how functional is everything? I've read that a few people have issues with the alchemy thing? Is that related to using the graphics pack someone made for this mod or what?

Thanks in advance to any who help.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 28, 2011, 11:25:36 am

Quote from: Goddifist on June 28, 2011, 12:51:07 am

i was wondering and sorry if you ansewered this but......64 is way too many pages but it will be a simple question
i downloaded in was just wondering how do i get the buildings for alchemy?
i mean i did everything right as far as everything else goes. Glacium (i think its spelled) and such.
but i just don't have the buildings.
so yea a little help with that would be...well...helpful.

Depends on what you mean. The buildings themselves should be under the standard building and smelter menus. If you're wondering how you make the buildings, it depends on the building in question but the game should tell you what you need. If you don't have the buildings showing up, I suggest reinstalling the mod.

 
@Seraphyx: Anathema created a download pack for the mod with Mayday's graphics. You can get that here (http://Civilization Forge Mod: Mayday Graphical Edition)


I'm adding the Alchemy flowchart and the graphic pack version to the OP so it's easier for people to find.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on June 28, 2011, 06:35:49 pm

Quote from: Seraphyx on June 28, 2011, 09:07:00 am

Hello everyone, firstly this looks like an amazing mod but I have some concerns about it. I play DF casually so I really don't have the time or will to search 68 pages or numerous other topics that are probably discussing this mod, aside from that I'm not very informed on anything modding DF related, so in short I'm a newb.

My first concern is that I "need" to play with a graphics pack, by need I mean highly want, and will not play DF without one just because I can't, it's too much on my brain and it will explode trying to make sense of everything (props to anyone who can play it and prefers it in ASCII). I've seen some posts that mentioned a lot of heavy editing of files, I don't exactly have time to go through and do that and 'hope' that I get everything done correctly. My question is can someone who has already done this for Phobeus(?) graphics pack upload it somewhere? I don't really care which graphics pack I think I'll get used to any, I just prefer Phobeus since that's what I learned to play on.

The second thing is that I saw someone was making a graphics pack specifically for this mod and I have a question about it. How finished is it and how functional is everything? I've read that a few people have issues with the alchemy thing? Is that related to using the graphics pack someone made for this mod or what?

Thanks in advance to any who help.

My signature links to the merge of Civilization Forge+Mayday graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) I put together. The graphics are about 95% complete, just missing some of the animals introduced since 31.19 (lacking graphics, they just show up as ASCII characters). It's fully 'functional' - I made no changes to gameplay (including alchemy), just patched in Mayday graphics. As far as I know, it's the only graphical CivForge updated for 31.25.

There used to be a Phoebus version of CivForge (Drayath's graphics pack here (http://www.brightsoft.net/Drayaths_Dwarf_Fortress_Pack.html)), but it hasn't been updated since 31.12. It could certainly be updated as described in my post above, like I said it's not that hard to do, but it is a bit time consuming.

Also alchemy works last time I checked, but it's.. quite complicated. If you enjoy making steel in vanilla, look into alchemy - it's similar, a complicated process that rewards you with better weapon/armor materials, except moreso. This flowchart (http://www.brightsoft.net/AlchemyGraph.png) gives a nice overview. The crystal materials are generally similar to iron/steel, more complicated to produce, but do not require metal ores (you sort of farm them). The mithril/orihalcum/elemental metals are much better than anything steel or crystal, but rely on lots of rare materials and are also complicated to produce. It's something extra for the experienced player to try and master. There's a more detailed 'alchemy basics.txt' file included in all versions of CivForge, it's a good reference to look up how a specific reaction works.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Seraphyx on June 29, 2011, 08:21:51 am

Thanks for the replies and taking the time to make a graphics pack for this mod. And no, I quite hated making steel ;p I am much more comfortable with it now that I know I can use lignite and such for fuel, which makes it way easier than burning trees with no access to magma. But I will more than likely stay away from alchemy for a very long time if it is more complicated than steel making.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on June 29, 2011, 05:04:36 pm

Yeah I'm honestly not a fan of the alchemy system in its current form either, a little too much micromanagement and making 6 different workshops and hunting for rare ingredients that might not occur on your map.

Note that you can still benefit from superior alchemical metals (mithril, glacium, etc.) without actually doing alchemy - the dwarven caravan will bring you bars if you request them, and the occasional invader will be equipped with something better than steel that you can melt down and reforge into dwarf-sized gear.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: plantpot on June 30, 2011, 09:48:12 am

thx for the reply about pheobus for now il use the old version if it use's pheobus my main drew to the civ mod oddly is it has tower shields above all other aspecs unfortunatly i dont have the patants when at home to go through and alter the latest version of the mod for use with pheobus i have a tendancy to jump from one thing to another wich would explain why may pc has 8 df's on it each one a different mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Kon on June 30, 2011, 02:37:50 pm

Quote from: Wes on June 07, 2011, 11:19:52 pm

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but for some reason when I have my dwarves do alchemy instead of putting the resultant products into jars they just leave them as piles in the workshop. Do you know what's causing this?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is a known bug that has not yet been fixed. The salt, alum, and other powders that you buy from caravans will work, but making them is bugged.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on June 30, 2011, 02:47:13 pm

Yeah, it's still kinda bugged. Haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. I have a few other alchemy bugs on my to-do list as well. I just need life to calm down a bit so I can work on them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Goddifist on July 01, 2011, 03:56:25 am

ive tried reinstalling the mod and it never works
i use lazy newb pack so would that be the reason since it seems any major mod i try never works

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ascaronth on July 01, 2011, 11:43:18 pm

Hi, I haven't had the chance to try your mod in depth yet, but I just wanted to tell you that you can't farm crimson crystal grass, meaning it doesn't appear in the list when you [q]uery a farm plot. I'm back to playing now, will report about any bug I find ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 02, 2011, 11:11:58 am

Hmm. That doesn't sound right. I'll have to check into it, but are you sure you have seeds for it? Because I know I've grown it in the past without any problems.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Ascaronth on July 02, 2011, 07:16:38 pm

Yes, obviously you were right... I though I embarked with every new millable (to dye) plant seed (I'm into textile industry) but I was wrong. Tested on another embark and, yep, my bad. Sorry :-X

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Lexx on July 08, 2011, 07:39:34 am

Just genning a large region with your mod to try it. It sounds fun! Will post on my experiences later.

EDIT: Okay I have started a game but for some reason when I try to change Z levels with the standard keys nothing happens. Meaning i cant chance Z levels at all. So you know I downloaded the graphical edition of the game. Any help figuring out how to fix this would be appreciated.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 08, 2011, 11:29:59 am

Go look at your config files. One of them controls key bindings, and was probably changed in the graphics pack.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Lexx on July 08, 2011, 11:50:24 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 08, 2011, 11:29:59 am

Go look at your config files. One of them controls key bindings, and was probably changed in the graphics pack.

I checked and weirdly it hasn't got them any different than what they are normally. To be clear I downloaded from the 4th link on the first page. I made sure my keyboard is working and it works on all my other DF game installs when in Fortress mode. This one seems to be the only exception. Thanks for the effort though. I'm stumped though for the time being what might be wrong.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on July 10, 2011, 10:16:22 pm

Hey I'm not sure if this is a known glitch or not, but i cant seem to be able to make Ikal Nabid in alchemy, I have both Olivine and Dolomite and it wont let me produce any. Any help?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on July 12, 2011, 03:33:59 pm

Quote from: Lexx on July 08, 2011, 11:50:24 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 08, 2011, 11:29:59 am

Go look at your config files. One of them controls key bindings, and was probably changed in the graphics pack.

I checked and weirdly it hasn't got them any different than what they are normally. To be clear I downloaded from the 4th link on the first page. I made sure my keyboard is working and it works on all my other DF game installs when in Fortress mode. This one seems to be the only exception. Thanks for the effort though. I'm stumped though for the time being what might be wrong.

I didn't change the keybindings in making the graphics pack - they should be the same as vanilla DF, which is < and > for up/down z-levels (meaning you hold shift+comma or shift+period). I just redownloaded the file to double check that, < and > work for me, not sure what to tell you =/

Maybe try changing the binding from within the game? (hit escape while in fortress mode, choose key bindings, general).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 12, 2011, 03:40:23 pm

Quote from: Fallen Flame on July 10, 2011, 10:16:22 pm

Hey I'm not sure if this is a known glitch or not, but i cant seem to be able to make Ikal Nabid in alchemy, I have both Olivine and Dolomite and it wont let me produce any. Any help?

Hmm. You should be able to.

I'll try to do some testing tonight. I need to fix up a bunch of Alchemy issues anyway, so I'll add that to my list of possible issues.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on July 14, 2011, 05:55:37 pm

In regards to me not being able to make Ikal Nabid, I was looking at the raws and neither Talc, Dolomite, or Olivine are in the Magnesium reaction class group. which is what the Ikal Nabid reaction requires, so wouldn't that be the problem?

Forgive me if im wrong, im not too competent with the raws, but i thought id look.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on July 14, 2011, 06:07:37 pm

That would be an issue. Might be a disconnect between my version and the raws that got uploaded. That happens sometimes when I'm working from different computers.

I'll double-check the versions.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on July 14, 2011, 07:08:38 pm

yeah that was definitly the problem, i added [REACTION_CLASS:MAGNESIUM] to dolomite, talc, and olivine, and now i can make Ikal Nabid.

EDIT: Well that fixed part of the problem, I can now produce it, but it will not store it into jar, and cant be used in any further reactions.

Also another question on the Alchemy Graph on the first page it says that the different types of crystal materials require crystal glass, while in the reaction it specifies Crystal seed, are these the same or is the graph wrong?

Another thing that I found out, I cannot make Alum from Bauxite, and the flowchart indicates that I can. Bauxite seems to be missing the Alum reaction tag in the raws.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Harry959 on August 01, 2011, 04:54:19 pm

I'd just like to tell you that the "entity_default" file missing a few tags, like the one that allows the Jarmaker's Workshop, so we can't actually make Jars and such.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 01, 2011, 05:03:40 pm

You can make jars from the regular workshops, now. They're like pots and jugs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 03, 2011, 12:35:47 am

Quote from: Fallen Flame on July 14, 2011, 07:08:38 pm

yeah that was definitly the problem, i added [REACTION_CLASS:MAGNESIUM] to dolomite, talc, and olivine, and now i can make Ikal Nabid.

EDIT: Well that fixed part of the problem, I can now produce it, but it will not store it into jar, and cant be used in any further reactions.

Also another question on the Alchemy Graph on the first page it says that the different types of crystal materials require crystal glass, while in the reaction it specifies Crystal seed, are these the same or is the graph wrong?

Another thing that I found out, I cannot make Alum from Bauxite, and the flowchart indicates that I can. Bauxite seems to be missing the Alum reaction tag in the raws.

Sorry, missed the question about Crystal Seed. Everything should use Crystal Seed now instead of crystal glass.

As for the others, I've confirmed that all of the materials in my set of the raws have the correct Reaction Classes. So once I finish up a few other fixes for alchemy I'll get a new set out. Hopefully tomorrow night, as I'm stuck on an issue at the moment. But I'm back to actually spending time modding, so that's a good thing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Nighthawk on August 03, 2011, 11:04:25 am

Never saw this mod before. How did that happen?

This looks really cool. I'll be sure to download it once my fortress (inevitably) experiences Fun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 04, 2011, 04:46:43 pm

Will I have to abandon ALL my forts to successfully download this?


Will my modifications to the smelter, weapons, armour, entities and creatures stay the same, or will I have to redo them all once I download this mod?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 05:27:45 pm

The mod is NOT going to be compatible with any of your existing worlds, so there isn't any reason to abandon your fortresses. Any changes to the base raws won't have any effect on existing fortresses since each save has it's own copy of the raws now.

If you have any other modifications to the raws you'll need to redo them in the raws that come with Civ Forge. WinMerge makes that a lot easier. Keep in mind that Civilization Forge has a huge number of changes to a lot of files, so you'll need to be careful when working in other mods to make sure things don't break.

Generally, I'd just suggest installing another copy of Dwarf Fortress 31.25 and putting Civilization Forge in there. Mostly to keep things clean, and it lets you muck around with the new stuff without breaking any of your old stuff.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 04, 2011, 06:22:49 pm

Ok, good. I just abandoned two of my forts on my five worlds.

DAMMIT. I worked hard on my modifications. And I didn't use any pre-made mods, I just fiddled around a bit with creatures, entities, weapons and the smelter.

OK. But last time I tried installing the game a 2nd time, it didn't show another Dwarf Fortress thing in My Documents.


Perhaps I could download 0.31.24 and use Civ Forge on that game.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 06:26:27 pm

Or you could just make a shortcut to the second DF install and use that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 04, 2011, 08:17:45 pm

I got 0.31.34 in. Now what?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 09:19:55 pm

Just unzip all of the files in the mod into the objects/raw folder. Then you should be able to create a new world with the mod and start playing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 04, 2011, 09:21:33 pm

Mass-modding before first world. Hoping to redo some things from my normal 31.25 games. Turning invaders off. Making sand-people, kobolds, and Jawas playable by me. Using the Just Embark tool to embark on other settlements. Modding the workshops and entities.

Did you fix the 'no waggons' bug?

Did  you add more embark points so I can take more skills and more stuff?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 09:23:35 pm

Haven't been able to fix the no wagons bug, but I do have some larger pack animals that can sort of make up for them.

You can add more embark points if you do a custom world. That's not really a mod thing so much as an advanced DF parameter thing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 05, 2011, 07:15:57 am

I'm gonna see if I can use the embark party size to take 30 dorfs and gonna mod the advanced world gen raws to get a whopping 5000 embark points.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2011, 10:52:53 am

Have fun!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 05, 2011, 04:33:58 pm

Did you remove bogeymen? Because I haven't been ambushed by them in adventure mode lately.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2011, 04:43:30 pm

Nope, didn't touch them at all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 05, 2011, 10:05:33 pm

I'm modding the different things to spew out the really expensive, valuable and useful stuff, as well as the ordinary items. Gonna see if I can make some other creatures controllable by me.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Thundercraft on August 05, 2011, 11:20:56 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 09:23:35 pm

Haven't been able to fix the no wagons bug, but I do have some larger pack animals that can sort of make up for them.

If you don't mind my asking: Which animals in particular has the extra capacity to help make up for the missing wagons?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 01:22:44 am

Quote from: Thundercraft on August 05, 2011, 11:20:56 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 04, 2011, 09:23:35 pm

Haven't been able to fix the no wagons bug, but I do have some larger pack animals that can sort of make up for them.

If you don't mind my asking: Which animals in particular has the extra capacity to help make up for the missing wagons?

Land Striders, Wolly Mammoths, and Elephants can all carry a great deal. Land Striders are the major one, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: The Doctor on August 06, 2011, 01:29:08 am

Uhm. Are the cave crab eggs edible? o.o They're in my food stockpile, but they won't eat them and the eggs aren't in my kitchen Z-screen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: vrga on August 06, 2011, 03:53:29 am

I'm just gonna be saying hi here, and congratulating you , mephansteras on a job being very well done :)


CivForge is one of those things i cant play DF without anymore.

So, cheers, and dont you dare ever quit working on this :D

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 07:46:06 am

See if you can incorporate even more crops from the real world, like maize corn, potatoes, and perhaps wheat to make normal beer like you have normal rum made from sugar canes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 12:13:47 pm

Quote from: The Doctor on August 06, 2011, 01:29:08 am

Uhm. Are the cave crab eggs edible? o.o They're in my food stockpile, but they won't eat them and the eggs aren't in my kitchen Z-screen.

They should be, I didn't do anything specific to make them inedible.

Quote

See if you can incorporate even more crops from the real world, like maize corn, potatoes, and perhaps wheat to make normal beer like you have normal rum made from sugar canes.

Maybe. Too many crops gets a bit unwieldy, though, and I think there are some mods out there that just add in a bunch of plants so I haven't worried about it too much. Might do some more once I can get Alchemy to do interesting things, though. At which point I'll probably add in some more specialized plants.

For regular beer, though, I've always figured that Longland Grass was pretty much wheat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 12:20:34 pm

Yeah, about unwieldy... I've let my dorfs able to use above-ground crops, and it's made my embark choosings a tad bit harder than usual.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on August 06, 2011, 12:28:40 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 01:22:44 am

Land Striders, Wolly Mammoths, and Elephants can all carry a great deal. Land Striders are the major one, though.

So Mammoths are still Wolly in your version, eh? Sorry, I have to laugh every time I see that typo :P

Also, beware wild Land Striders: they're huge and very deadly, they're like the Elephants of the Boatmurdered era reborn. You even gave them horns. I had an embark last week wiped out within minutes by a single zombie land strider, it wasn't pretty.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 01:22:19 pm

Bah. You people and your 'proper spelling'. :P

They'll be fixed in the next version. Which should be soon, once I finish some more tests.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 06, 2011, 03:55:49 pm

I am currently suffering from a strange bug: My dwarves don't use bins to store items in them. At all. The bins just sit in the stockpiles, ignored and empty, while stonecrafts are littering everywhere.  :-\ I am fairly sure this bug is related to the mod, this is my first game with Civilization forge (the newest version complete with a graphics tileset included), and I had no issues with Lazy Newb Pack vanilla game previously.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 04:10:12 pm

Every single GODDAMN game I play as a race other than human, normal elf or dwarf, the civilization I'm in suddenly turns hostile towards me, even though I didn't do ANYTHING. Is this a bug? Has anyone else experienced this?


EDIT: This is in adventure mode. What gives with this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 04:17:38 pm

@Saeldanya: Odd. I've never heard of that problem before, and certainly never experienced it. Did you make any other changes?

@UristMcHuman: Not sure. Haven't played with too many other races so far.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 06, 2011, 04:22:17 pm

No changes, no... I just started a game with the graphics included version. The only utility I run is dwarf therapist, and I have not changed any settings or files.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 06, 2011, 06:03:25 pm

Update: I was able to fix the bug by dumping all the empty bins from each stockpile, then reclaiming them, and assigning reserved bins to each stockpile. The dwarves now no longer ignore the bins.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 06, 2011, 06:58:05 pm

How odd. Well, I'm glad they seem to work now

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on August 06, 2011, 08:43:03 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 04:10:12 pm

Every single GODDAMN game I play as a race other than human, normal elf or dwarf, the civilization I'm in suddenly turns hostile towards me, even though I didn't do ANYTHING. Is this a bug? Has anyone else experienced this?


EDIT: This is in adventure mode. What gives with this?

Yeah, I've seen that too. Here's what I think is happening: in vanilla DF, elf/dwarf towns aren't implemented, only human towns - so if you start an elf/dwarf adventurer, it looks for a functioning town to put you in, which is no problem since the humans are friendly with you. But this becomes a problem in CivForge, when it looks for a town to start you in, it sometimes picks a Sand Raider or Dyansauri or whatever town, and they can be hostile to your civilization.

Edit: Wait, maybe I misread. Are you saying it happens when you pick a race other than elf/dwarf? 'Cause I get it all the time with dwarf adventurers, if you're talking about Frost Giant or Dyansauri or whoever, I've little experience with them. The problem may be similar, though.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 06, 2011, 09:06:02 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 04:10:12 pm

Every single GODDAMN game I play as a race other than human, normal elf or dwarf, the civilization I'm in suddenly turns hostile towards me, even though I didn't do ANYTHING. Is this a bug? Has anyone else experienced this?


EDIT: This is in adventure mode. What gives with this?

I've had it where I go to a Sand raider or Dynasauri (sp?) town and everyone there is hostile to me as well. I've also had it that I go and recruit some sand raiders and they're friendly however as soon as I enter combat they start attacking me. I can't remember what race I was in adventure mode, but this has happened.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 07, 2011, 09:29:02 am

Quote from: Anathema on August 06, 2011, 08:43:03 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 04:10:12 pm

Every single GODDAMN game I play as a race other than human, normal elf or dwarf, the civilization I'm in suddenly turns hostile towards me, even though I didn't do ANYTHING. Is this a bug? Has anyone else experienced this?


EDIT: This is in adventure mode. What gives with this?

Yeah, I've seen that too. Here's what I think is happening: in vanilla DF, elf/dwarf towns aren't implemented, only human towns - so if you start an elf/dwarf adventurer, it looks for a functioning town to put you in, which is no problem since the humans are friendly with you. But this becomes a problem in CivForge, when it looks for a town to start you in, it sometimes picks a Sand Raider or Dyansauri or whatever town, and they can be hostile to your civilization.

Edit: Wait, maybe I misread. Are you saying it happens when you pick a race other than elf/dwarf? 'Cause I get it all the time with dwarf adventurers, if you're talking about Frost Giant or Dyansauri or whoever, I've little experience with them. The problem may be similar, though.

Yes, other than normal humans, elves and dwarves. I've played a sand raider, my plundering party of 7, as well as my WHOLE DAMN CIVILIZATION, turned on me. Played a hobgoblin, got vamarii friends, they and their civ turn hostile. Played a FROST GIANT, the high elf civ I was a member of turned hostile. What gives?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 01:11:15 pm

Hmm. All three of those are Evil races. Do you get this same behavior with High Elves, Silver Xelics, or Vamarii? My guess is something in the tags for the evil races makes it so that they somehow turn on you.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 07, 2011, 02:58:18 pm

Hmmm. Can anyone help me figure out how to train giant beetles into war beetles? The kennels only work for dogs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 02:59:09 pm

Quote from: Saeldanya on August 07, 2011, 02:58:18 pm

Hmmm. Can anyone help me figure out how to train giant beetles into war beetles? The kennels only work for dogs.

The kennels say dogs, but actually work for any trainable animal. both Cave Crabs and Giant Beetles can be trained there no problem.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 07, 2011, 03:22:05 pm

Ah, thanks! The giant beetle I have does not give the kennels a "train war animal" option to select, but I guess there must be another reason for this... maybe because it arrived as someone's pet?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 07, 2011, 03:27:53 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 01:11:15 pm

Hmm. All three of those are Evil races. Do you get this same behavior with High Elves, Silver Xelics, or Vamarii? My guess is something in the tags for the evil races makes it so that they somehow turn on you.

No, when I was a sand-person, I took other sand-people with me to raid a human town. I walked into a lasher, and my whole sand-man civ turned on me. I haven't tried a silver xelic, high-elf or vamari yet, but I will.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 07, 2011, 03:39:25 pm

Quote from: Saeldanya on August 07, 2011, 03:22:05 pm

Ah, thanks! The giant beetle I have does not give the kennels a "train war animal" option to select, but I guess there must be another reason for this... maybe because it arrived as someone's pet?

If it's a named pet, you cannot do anything to it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 04:43:56 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 07, 2011, 03:27:53 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 01:11:15 pm

Hmm. All three of those are Evil races. Do you get this same behavior with High Elves, Silver Xelics, or Vamarii? My guess is something in the tags for the evil races makes it so that they somehow turn on you.

No, when I was a sand-person, I took other sand-people with me to raid a human town. I walked into a lasher, and my whole sand-man civ turned on me. I haven't tried a silver xelic, high-elf or vamari yet, but I will.

Sand Raiders are also evil.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: The Doctor on August 07, 2011, 05:17:34 pm

If you kill a named animal with, say, a ballistae... Would it be butcherable?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2011, 05:58:27 pm

Quote from: The Doctor on August 07, 2011, 05:17:34 pm

If you kill a named animal with, say, a ballistae... Would it be butcherable?

I would assume so.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: The Doctor on August 07, 2011, 06:43:26 pm

Good. Because I hate named animals. Only if I assign you a pet, will you have a pet!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Thrin on August 07, 2011, 10:56:53 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 06, 2011, 04:10:12 pm

Every single GODDAMN game I play as a race other than human, normal elf or dwarf, the civilization I'm in suddenly turns hostile towards me, even though I didn't do ANYTHING. Is this a bug? Has anyone else experienced this?


EDIT: This is in adventure mode. What gives with this?

I think I remember Kolbold Camp had problems with this as well. If I recall correctly, it had something to do with the LOCAL_BANDITRY tag. I'll go back through that thread and report back.

EDIT:

Quote from: guale on November 16, 2010, 03:16:21 am

I belive Deon discovered that being attacked by supposedly friendly towns is a cause of the [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag which I see 'bolds have.

There you go. Looking through the raws show that all three have the [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag. Remove them, and your problem is solved. I think.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 08, 2011, 02:31:49 am

Hmm one thing that I've noticed (I'm assuming its a bug) is that I've gotten cave crabs and giant cave crabs spawning in HFS. Anyone else noticing this?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: The Doctor on August 08, 2011, 02:34:23 am

They're giant insectoid beasts.

Of course they fit in with the clowns. The clowns are probably scared shitless.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In all seriousness, I haven't see that, but I haven't breached the HFS... well, ever. Anyway, the only problem I've noticed with cave crabs is inedible eggs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 08, 2011, 02:41:02 am

Well I have not breached it either but in my last world I kept seeing "Giant cave crab is caught in flames x20" (or something like that). So I used DFreveal and went looking for what it was, and basically it was some cave crabs that had spawned in an underground structure which were attacking clowns. On another world I used reveal and unpaused, and as soon as clowns spawned they started attacking random cave crabs in HFS. It's quite odd...

EDIT: looked in the raws and noticed this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:5]

I'm not sure what impact this would have or if it would do anything, but doesn't this mean they will spawn in a cavern from level 1 to level 5 and since there is only 3 cavern's does HFS count as the fourth?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Knight Otu on August 08, 2011, 07:16:43 am

Underground depth 4 is the magma sea. Underground depth 5 is the HFS layer.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 08, 2011, 08:20:59 am

Alright, who's goddamn idea was it to make giant ants able to gravely wound, let alone kill me IN THREE GODDAMN TURNS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: jaxy15 on August 08, 2011, 08:27:56 am

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 08, 2011, 08:20:59 am

Alright, who's goddamn idea was it to make giant ants able to gravely wound, let alone kill me IN THREE GODDAMN TURNS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It was your idea to even challenge the ants.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 08, 2011, 08:31:05 am

I didn't WANT to challenge the dang things! It just came up to me while I was picking up the supplies for my cave-dwelling and it bit me so as to bleed out IN THREE TURNS. I swear I'm gonna significantly weaken the damn things.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2011, 10:50:45 am

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 08, 2011, 08:31:05 am

I didn't WANT to challenge the dang things! It just came up to me while I was picking up the supplies for my cave-dwelling and it bit me so as to bleed out IN THREE TURNS. I swear I'm gonna significantly weaken the damn things.

It's the giant mandibles. Which makes sense, a huge ant would be pretty scary in real life too. They're not much of a threat against an armored opponent, though.

Good catch on the cave crabs, I'll have to fix those tags to only go down to 3.

I'm also going to swap out the Local banditry tag for the normal one. That should fix the adventurer issue while still letting the evil races banditize the countryside.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 08, 2011, 10:51:54 am

Argh! I know I ask a lot of questions, but I've tried to figure this out by myself for nearly a week now before giving up. I have no idea how to make flasks or alchemical jars, and I have never seen oil nuts or tunnel tube. None of these exist in the stocks menu, either, and the wiki doesn't give information on these particular things. Sure, I can make jars, but not -alchemical- jars. I can make vials, but not flasks (which are required to build the alchemy laboratory). I've searched all possible build options many times, but there don't appear to be any oil press or jarmakers workshop. The only thing I can press into oil is rock nuts, but considering the wiki information I assume that's a different kind of oil.

Probably going to start a new game, too many newbie mistakes made and, more importantly, NO resources to make any sort of metal bars on this embarkment site. My poor dwarves in leather armor were getting owned by invaders with WAY better equipment. I had hoped for alchemy to save me, there was cobaltite and rock crystal there, but alas I couldn't figure alchemy out.  :-\

This is way more fun than vanilla was, however... and I'm not getting owned quite as hard, so far. No invaders with flying and underwater mounts yet.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2011, 10:58:26 am

I wonder if my updated Alchemy Basics file didn't make it in?

In any case:

Jars are jars. Alchemical jars was a just a holdover term from when they were a workaround toy. At this point any jars you make that can hold liquid (so, glazed, glass, or rock) should work fine. You no longer need oil pods or tunnel tubes. You can use the regular oil in vanilla DF from pressing rock nuts (quarry bush seeds). There is an option in the quern/millstone to grind seeds to paste. You can then press them at the Screw Press into oil. Oil can then be used to make soap (vanilla DF) or at the frothing pool to make Midnight Elixir for alchemy.

Glass vials are a type of flask. Same way leather flasks are called waterskins, but they're all of the FLASK type to DF. Green glass vials work fine for making an Alchemist's lab.

I'm hoping to have the next release up in the next few days. I have one more section to test out, but I've gotten the rest of the alchemy bugs worked out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 08, 2011, 11:42:55 am

Thanks for the quick reply! I hope to get it working for the next fortress. The wiki and introduction post at the beginning of the thread mention a jarmakers workshop and oil nuts / an oil press, which can be confusing. If it could be made more clear that any jars, rock nut oil and glass vials will work, that might be helpful for others as well.

Keep up the good work with my favorite mod!  8)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 08, 2011, 11:57:40 am

Another thing that I noticed is that your dorfs can and will use jugs to store alchemy ingredients. Jars and jugs are the same thing just with different names.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 08, 2011, 12:12:49 pm

Quote from: Fallen Flame on August 08, 2011, 11:57:40 am

Another thing that I noticed is that your dorfs can and will use jugs to store alchemy ingredients. Jars and jugs are the same thing just with different names.

Technically, jugs are larger. But it often doesn't matter.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 11:24:35 am

Looks like it'll be a few more days before I get a release out. I'm getting a world gen crash without any entries in the error log to help me figure it out. And I won't have much time to work on it for most of this week.

But I'll get it out as soon as it can.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 11:38:45 am

Can you PLEASE make the giant ants somewhat weaker?!?!? I don't like being bitten by one and dying instantly or bleeding out from the bite in one turn.

EDIT: And make your giant beetles flee like normal wildlife. I lost three dwarfs and 7 or 8 of my dogs and cave crabs to just 2 beetles on my way to the caverns!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 03:52:27 pm

Giant ants are at the difficulty I want them at. They're tough against lightly armored people but simple for armored soldiers to dispatch.

The Giant Beetles are set up that way so they can work well as attack/guard animals. That does make wild ones a bit nastier, however.

You may want to consider having a marksdwarf at embark if you find that the giant insects are causing you too many issues.

Feel free to make these changes yourself, but they are both functioning as I intend them to.



General update: Still working on the crash issue, but everything else seems to be working properly. So as soon as I fix this crash bug I'll be able to release the update.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on August 09, 2011, 05:23:24 pm

I really like the giant ants, myself. And giant beetles, and wild land striders - and the new giant badgers from vanilla, for that matter.

Too many unspeakable horrors of the overground have gone the way of Elephants and Carp and Undeads: pacified until they run in fear from your plant gatherers, or nerfed until a kitten can slaughter them. The surface needs some danger.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 05:32:33 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 03:52:27 pm

Giant ants are at the difficulty I want them at. They're tough against lightly armored people but simple for armored soldiers to dispatch.

The things bit me in the face!!! How's armor supposed to defend against THAT?!?!

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 03:52:27 pm

The Giant Beetles are set up that way so they can work well as attack/guard animals. That does make wild ones a bit nastier, however.

So what are you saying, to train my cave crabs and dogs to war animals to dispatch them, or what?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on August 09, 2011, 05:36:00 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 05:32:33 pm

So what are you saying, to train my cave crabs and dogs to war animals to dispatch them, or what?

I think he means that giant beetles are more aggressive than most animals because (like dogs and crabs) they're meant to be used as war animals. So take advantage of their fierceness, any giant beetles you get as pack animals can be trained into war animals.

I usually get one or two free after embarking, and the occasional one with migrant waves, they're certainly more useful than the old mules and horses and such.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 05:37:46 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 05:32:33 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 03:52:27 pm

Giant ants are at the difficulty I want them at. They're tough against lightly armored people but simple for armored soldiers to dispatch.

The things bit me in the face!!! How's armor supposed to defend against THAT?!?!

Helms help many things. And, no, it won't always save you. Of course, an arrow to the face can do the same thing.

Quote

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 03:52:27 pm

The Giant Beetles are set up that way so they can work well as attack/guard animals. That does make wild ones a bit nastier, however.

So what are you saying, to train my cave crabs and dogs to war animals to dispatch them, or what?

Well, you can always bring along your own Giant Beetles and train them to be war animals. That should even the odds a bit.

@Anathema: Exactly

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 05:38:34 pm

Never though of that. I intend to save my starting beetles to breed, though, so I tend not to make war animals early on.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 09, 2011, 05:41:25 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 09, 2011, 05:38:34 pm

Never though of that. I intend to save my starting beetles to breed, though, so I tend not to make war animals early on.

Swarms of war dogs and cave crabs work as well. And bringing along a hunter at embark to train them and take care of wild animals can also be effective.

Cage traps also work wonders, since you get a trainable beetle out of it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 10, 2011, 03:59:38 pm

Are the coloured crystal grasses underground plants?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2011, 04:05:39 pm

Quote from: UristMcHuman on August 10, 2011, 03:59:38 pm

Are the coloured crystal grasses underground plants?

Yes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2011, 04:43:11 pm

Still working on the crash bug. Might have it resolved now, but that'll take more testing.

In the meantime, I'm resurrecting a bunch of work that I had done on libraries. So that might go out with this release. Or maybe a follow-up one. But they should be pretty nifty. I've got parchment working, as well as the creation of glue to make ink. I'll probably have glue used to make books as well. There should be some interesting stuff going in.

Question for all of you: What do you consider the most important thing for the libraries to do? Right now I have 10 separate library sections, which cover broad areas. So you have a woodworking section, a metalworking section, a medical section, and so on. Would having a bunch of separate workshops be annoying? Or would you rather have one giant library that can take any of the research options (although that would restrict it to one dwarf at a time)

Also, my current thought is that writing manuscripts will train both the skill and Teaching, while reading will train the skill and Student. I'm torn on how detailed this should be. It would be simpler to have a few jobs for each, and have the training be across the board. So writing about medicine (or studying it) would train all of the medical skills. But it seems more in the spirit of dwarf fortress to have each skill have a separate action. That's a ton of workshop options for the scriptorium, though!

Granted, I'm not 100% sure that a given job can train more than one skill. That needs testing. If it can't, then I guess I'll have to do the one-job-per-skill route regardless.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 10, 2011, 05:48:36 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 10, 2011, 04:43:11 pm

Question for all of you: What do you consider the most important thing for the libraries to do? Right now I have 10 separate library sections, which cover broad areas. So you have a woodworking section, a metalworking section, a medical section, and so on. Would having a bunch of separate workshops be annoying? Or would you rather have one giant library that can take any of the research options (although that would restrict it to one dwarf at a time)

Make Book-shelf buildings that can have a library room dragged out from it. Place tables, chairs and additional book-shelves throughout the room. Have scribes write lots of books for both entertainment and education, and fill the shelves with the books. When dwarfs are bored, they can go read a fantastic story about an adventurer's great travels across the world. When a dwarf is losing certain skills or wants to learn a skill (like metal-working or carpentry), he/she can go read a book about (re)learning the skill and doing some types of work. If a kid wants to learn about what happened prior to his/her birth, arrival to the fort, or to just learn general history about the world, he/she can go read a book written by a historian if about the world or by a battle-hardened soldier if about wars.

I don't want the 'labor' "Study (skill)" or "Read Story" to take up a job on a useful dwarf. If he/she is reading, the item he/she is hauling should be the book and they should be sitting at a table in the library. When a job needs to be done, the dwarf would either re-shelf their book or put it on the table and go do their job. When they are done, the will go back to reading the book or studying.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 10, 2011, 06:11:48 pm

Sadly, what you're talking about there is beyond the scope of modding for DF. That would all take changes to the source code. So right now I'm limited to what the raws will let me do.

Namely, the ability to have custom jobs, workshops, and items.

My current design is thus:

Libraries are small sections with a cabinet (bookshelf), table, and chair. They require a selection of manuscripts on the subject area to be built. Probably 5. Once built you'll be able to have a dwarf Study in the library to gain skill in the subject area. The primary reason for doing this is to skill up rarely used skills (like medical skills) or skill up dwarves in areas that use up scarce materials. Keeping your Surgeon's skills from rusting would be nice without having to injure some dwarves, after all!

Ideally, I'd cap the level that you could skill up in. So you couldn't become, say, a Master Armorer by reading books. But that's not possible at the moment. You could, however, put skill level restrictions on the rooms so that your Master Armorer won't go use the library but your novice armorer would.

I may have to have the jobs use an input and give an output. I'm thinking of having the dwarves take paper of some sort in with them, with a very slight chance to have them create a Manuscript of their own based on what they read. Otherwise it would be assumed that they'd just use the paper/parchement up taking notes. But I'm still thinking about that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 10, 2011, 07:22:45 pm

Regarding libraries I think a good idea for the amount that what you should do is have different libraries for each group of related skills, and then each one can train the skills. For example you could have a geology library that could train: mining, masonry, engraving, stonecrafting. And then so on for each other type. This way you don't have one central one, and you don't need lots for each skill

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Saeldanya on August 10, 2011, 08:48:19 pm

Heh... my first ever visiting titan was totally anihillated by... Vamari merchants. He caught an early crossbow bolt in his lung, then had trouble breathing for 25 combat report pages. The whole time he was tanked by one macefox who he only hit once... the fox broke his bones bit by bit, and when the titan was just lying there on the ground, the furry little thing started -wrestling- him. The only support he had were his buddies shooting bolts from further away.

That nameless fox deserves a legends entry, I swear.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2011, 11:01:11 am

Another option for libraries is to make it so that they're generic, and the dwarves simply take the appropriate book with them from the stockpiles. Only problem with this is that you end up with a bunch of books/scrolls lying around in some stockpile instead of sitting on the shelves. But it's another way of handling it.


@Saeldanya: Yeah, Vamarian guards are pretty awesome. They're quick, which helps a lot. Oh, and if you check the legends after you abandon that fort I'm sure you'll find that Vamarii in there, with the titan's kill to his name.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 11, 2011, 12:36:21 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 11, 2011, 11:01:11 am

Another option for libraries is to make it so that they're generic, and the dwarves simply take the appropriate book with them from the stockpiles. Only problem with this is that you end up with a bunch of books/scrolls lying around in some stockpile instead of sitting on the shelves. But it's another way of handling it.

I think it would be better to have it so any book can be used at any library, or else like you said you will end up with lots of books lying around, and it will be more of a hassle to make the ones you want.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2011, 12:48:52 pm

I'm not too fond of having 'generic' books, though. I'd at least like to have them category specific. So, you could use any Medical book to study Diagnosis or Bone setting or whatever, but you couldn't use it to study Mining or Herbalism. Generic books just seems...odd.

Did a quick test, looks like jobs can only use/train a single skill. That's unfortunate. Looks like the Scriptorium will have a giant list of jobs that can be done at it.

I think I'll stick up a poll with the options. There are three basic options, I think.

1) Large General Library. A single, large workshop that needs 1 manuscript of each of the various subject areas to be built. The advantage is that you've got a single place to do everything, you don't need a ton of books on each subject, and I can make it look pretty snazzy. Disadvantage is that you can only have one dwarf study in there at any given time, and you can't just make a library to deal with one or two subjects.

2) Smaller Specific Libraries. Small library sections that are used for a specific subject area. Agriculture, for instance, or Medicine. They would require a few manuscripts of the appropriate type to be built. This lets you have as many or few sections as you want for a given subject and you don't have to clutter up your fortress with books. Disadvantage is that you have to make a lot of them to cover all subject areas.

3) Generic libraries and stockpiled books. Small library sections that can be used to study any book. This makes the books you have on hand the only limiting factor in their use. Disadvantage: You have to have book stockpiles sitting around, so you have an odd disconnect of having a library without any real shelves. Probably just bins of books.

I kind of like 2, since I like the fact that I can build in a selection of books to the library sections. So you'd need to have, say, five manuscripts on medicine in order to start training doctors. It doesn't truly enforce the knowledge transfer logically, since they could all be on diagnosis but somehow train surgery, but it'd be closer. It also means that each library has a somewhat limited set of actions in the menu, making it easier to navigate. But 3 has some nice aspects as well. I just that stockpiles could be made more fine grained. Right now you can't quite restrict it so that ONLY books and no other tools end up in the stockpile.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 11, 2011, 02:48:54 pm

How would it work having both option 1 and 2? that way if you want to just have one big library you can, but If you want something more specific you can just build the smaller ones?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 11, 2011, 02:53:47 pm

Hmm. Yeah, that's doable.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Anathema on August 11, 2011, 04:10:51 pm

Based on your description, 2 seems like the way to go, easy to use and it makes sense. If it was a big general library, I'd need woodcrafting and farming books when all I want to do is train doctors, and then it could only train one dwarf at a time - I'd need several sets of odd books to create enough general libraries to train an entire medical staff at once.

On the other hand having book stockpiles separate from the "library" is a bit.. unintuitive, and one thing the game doesn't need more of is extra items and stockpiles to keep track of. Having the item simply be a component in creating the workshop seems like a much 'cleaner' approach.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: Mephansteras on August 12, 2011, 02:04:30 pm

Progress is going fairly well. I think I have the the crash bug resolved. I'm hoping to get that fully tested this weekend, so fingers crossed for a release on Monday.

Library stuff is moving. Right now I'm testing having both options 1 & 2 available. I don't think it'll be a big issue for me, and if it makes things easier for everyone else then I might as well.

I'm also going to add in training dummies. That's pretty easy, and useful. There will be some military knowledge in the libraries as well, but I don't like the idea of dwarves learning TOO much just by reading about it. Although there were fighting manuals in period which are quite helpful, so I'm thinking of having both.

People can always restrict skill levels in the various areas to keep their Master Swordsdwarves from hogging the training dummies.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.41 - DF31.25 update released!
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 14, 2011, 03:17:13 pm

I've noticed that your giant ants have some sort of weakness: the abdomen. I just 1shotted two by slashing them there with a SILVER bastard sword, and they sailed off. The third took two shots to kill, but it died though. A fourth one killed me. AGAIN. Damn thing bit me in the head AND I DIED INSTANTLY. Why do they have that nasty habit of ALWAYS going for your head and ALWAYS hitting?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 15, 2011, 06:40:03 pm

Ok, bug fix is up!

Still working on Libraries. Getting everything to work the way I want it to has been annoying, but it's been going reasonably well. I'll probably add some other stuff in while I'm add it. Mostly minor stuff, like some new creatures.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Anathema on August 15, 2011, 10:00:06 pm

Graphics pack (see signature) updated to CivForge 2.42.

[Edit: Hold on, missed something. Now the graphics pack is fully updated to 2.42 and uploaded.]

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Saeldanya on August 15, 2011, 11:57:01 pm

Do previous savegames work with the update?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2011, 12:35:33 am

Quote from: Saeldanya on August 15, 2011, 11:57:01 pm

Do previous savegames work with the update?

They should, but I'm not 100% sure.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Sol Invictus on August 16, 2011, 10:48:52 am

Probably some of you will like Civilization Forge with Phoebus graphics pack and creature tilesets from several other sources.
I prepared the package very quickly so errors are possible
The file is already uploaded on Dwarf Fortress File Depot
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4845 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4845)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 16, 2011, 04:25:47 pm

Thanks, Sol. Added that link to the OP.


Got an amusing bug this morning. I had my dwarves make parchment and glue from hides and got one of them to make a book from it. All well and good. I had him make another, and instead of grabbing the other unused parchment he decided to re-use the parchment from the existing manuscript. While that's technically period, it's not at all what I wanted. But I think I have that sorted out now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Anathema on August 16, 2011, 05:40:26 pm

Quote from: Sol Invictus on August 16, 2011, 10:48:52 am

Probably some of you will like Civilization Forge with Phoebus graphics pack and creature tilesets from several other sources.
I prepared the package very quickly so errors are possible
The file is already uploaded on Dwarf Fortress File Depot
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4845 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4845)

This is pretty hilarious. You credit me as the source of some of the creature graphics; I, in turn, credit Drayath who I got them from, and Drayath credits someone named Undeadstag who he got them from. Those critters get around..

By the way, I'm sure people can figure out what you mean, but you may want to revisit this line just to be sure:

Quote

4. Copy the files from <this package>\raw\objects\ to <your Dwarf Fortress folder>\raw\graphics\

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 16, 2011, 08:16:27 pm

What was the bug? I never managed to use and Alchemy Laboratory.

And your giant ants helped me and my companions sort of by attacking the Sand-men. They were all killed, though, and I butchered their corpses.

I made a scraper and want to clean their chitin. I drop an uncleaned chitin, and I got the scraper in my hand. I hit 'x' and select Clean Chitin, but it says I need and Unrotten CHITIN_MAT producing body part. I got the uncleaned, unrotten chitin from butchering, but it still says I need An Unrotten CHITIN_MAT producing material. What gives?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2011, 09:32:47 am

There was an issue with a few reactions. Powders not going into containers properly, and some other reactions producing the wrong amounts.

Not sure what the issue is with Chitin in adventure mode. I'll have to test that out to figure out what's going on.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 17, 2011, 07:26:37 pm

Sorry. I was thinking about Wanderer's Friend. My bad...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2011, 09:23:44 pm

Ah. No worries.

Getting some good progress done on the libraries and military training dummies. Needs a bunch of testing, but I think I'm getting close. I'll probably upload a test version at some point so we can get some more eyes on it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2011, 03:52:00 pm

Having some issue dealing with studying/training. In order for a dwarf to gain skill, the reaction has to produce something.

I tried making it produce an item that immediately boils away, but that destroyed the workshop. I've successfully made the training dummies (pells) produce grime after a practice session. Which is ok, but in order for it to be cleaned up the dwarves have to first take it to a stockpile. Kind of odd. Maybe if you forbid grime in food stockpiles it will be cleaned where it is? I'll have to check that.

I'm debating having the actual library ones require tablets that could be engraved with notes or something. But that'll clutter the fort up with junk. So maybe grime there as well? Means there are lots of cleaning jobs to be done, but I guess that's ok.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 18, 2011, 10:51:59 pm

Quick question, how can you make a stockpile that accepts alchemy ingredients, my dorfs always store them in the food stockpile and how can I make them stop storing them there?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 19, 2011, 06:52:05 pm

Quote from: Fallen Flame on August 18, 2011, 10:51:59 pm

Quick question, how can you make a stockpile that accepts alchemy ingredients, my dorfs always store them in the food stockpile and how can I make them stop storing them there?

Hmmm. I'd need to play with it, but usually I make a stockpile for bags, which where the powders end up, and a stockpile for tools. Haven't noticed alchemy ingredients going to the food stockpiles, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 20, 2011, 12:57:29 am

Well to be honest it might be something that you fixed (havent goten the newest update yet) and it was only the alchemy ingredients that were stored in jugs that got put in Food stockpiles.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: spanish.fly on August 24, 2011, 09:13:18 am

hi, is there a way to add diplomats to the new races?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 24, 2011, 10:54:28 am

Quote from: spanish.fly on August 24, 2011, 09:13:18 am

hi, is there a way to add diplomats to the new races?

Which sort of diplomats? Some of them have the human Merchant Prince tags. The only other types of diplomats are the Elven ones who bug you about wood and the liaison from the mountainhomes.

So, if you want diplomats that you can make trade agreements with then yes, if you add in the [MERCHANT_NOBILITY] tag to a race they should send you a diplomat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 24, 2011, 02:13:52 pm

General mod news: Still doing long long-term testing on the training/studying reactions. Grime seems to be ok. If you want to ignore it you can just forbid grime from all of the food stockpiles. You can also stick a grime-specific stockpile near the training areas, which speeds up the cleaning a bit.

It's not an ideal solution, but at least it works ok.

Also decided to go and add in some stuff I've been meaning to do for a bit. A bunch of wild animals now have natural skill levels, so wolves and the like are a little more deadly. Not a whole lot more, but enough to make them at least a low level threat. Some animals also have thicker skins, so having Cow leather armor is now much better than, say, goatskin leather armor. Dragons are also a bit more of a threat now, with scales as hard as iron. Oh, and I added in the code to allow scaled hide to be tanned, so you can have pretty awesome Dragon Hide armor now if your fort manages to kill one.

Also considering an option to allow bedrolls made of cloth that function like beds. It'd be a sensible alternative for wood-poor forts.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 24, 2011, 08:27:31 pm

Bedrolls are in now. Seem to work fine, so that's cool. Does make me want to add in Fur, though, so we can have fur bedding and the like. So that might go in, depending on how much work it is.

Also, I think I'm going to leave grime in for training. However, I think I have a better solution for studying. Candles! They can be used as a reagent for the studying, and are turned into wax globs at the end with a chance of being used up. I'll probably have each training session use up 2 or 3 candles. So you'll have a reason to make stuff out of wax, which is cool. Although I guess tallow candles is probably also historically accurate. I'll need to think about that. I can probably make it work regardless, but it'll take testing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: spanish.fly on August 25, 2011, 04:17:22 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 24, 2011, 10:54:28 am

Quote from: spanish.fly on August 24, 2011, 09:13:18 am

hi, is there a way to add diplomats to the new races?

Which sort of diplomats? Some of them have the human Merchant Prince tags. The only other types of diplomats are the Elven ones who bug you about wood and the liaison from the mountainhomes.

So, if you want diplomats that you can make trade agreements with then yes, if you add in the [MERCHANT_NOBILITY] tag to a race they should send you a diplomat.

thanks, yes i mean liaison, do i need to re-gen after adding [MERCHANT_NOBILITY] ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 25, 2011, 11:17:28 am

Probably, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I don't know if the merchant nobility of the humans is generated or taken from historical figures. My guess would be that they're historical, so you'd need to gen a new world.



Did a ton of testing last night. I think I'll definitely do candles. The ability to do wax or tallow should make them pretty easy to make.

I did notice that I needed an insane amount of glue to do anything with my current reactions, though. So I might change that somehow. Maybe make it so you get more than 1 glob of glue per reaction. Right now you need 1 glue to make the ink and another to make the book. That means a single library section needs you to render 10 glue globs. That's a lot of hides or hooves to render down, and then you still need 5 leather to bind the book in. Not to mention the parchment or paper. In fact, if all you have is skin available you could end up using 4 skins for a single book. I really wish skins had some sort of size property to them. Kinda silly that you get the same amount from a cow as you do a cat.

All told, a single book right now (assuming you use the basic carbon ink) takes Ash, 2 glue, 1 leather, and parchment/paper/papyrus. It's a fair investment of resources, although books are worth quite a bit. And the training ability is pretty powerful.

I've also decided to switch Giant Beetles over to being carnivores. They eat too much right now to really be viable as herbivores. I had one female starve herself to death raising a clutch of eggs. She managed to get them to hatch, but starved to death shortly afterwards following around the dwarf that trained her.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 26, 2011, 10:39:57 am

So you're making candles, huh? Interesting. I can't wait to see how the next release turns out!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: DOOMCHUG on August 30, 2011, 11:45:46 am

I don't know if its my end or yours but none of your download links are working.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 11:47:22 am

Links work ok for me. What kind of an error are you getting?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: DOOMCHUG on August 30, 2011, 11:55:30 am

Oh its working now must of been maintenance. thanks anyways.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 30, 2011, 12:43:19 pm

Hey, Mephansteras, is zinnwaldite a particular ore of anything in this mod? 'Cause I'm starting a 10k point mega-embark, and I have a choice of bringing a stone known as 'zinnwaldite' in my options. I looked up the stone on the wiki and it came up with nothing. Is this stone in your mod, and if so, what is it an ore of?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 01:12:17 pm

It's a type of mica. Purely an ornamental stone, with a yellow color. It is worth more than regular stone, but it's not an ore.


Still testing things. I hope to get some good play time in tonight. If I'm lucky I'll have things polished up enough to at least get a test version released so you guys can start looking at the new stuff.

Oh, and...fear dragons. They just got a massive upgrade in lethality.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 30, 2011, 03:54:11 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 01:12:17 pm

It's a type of mica. Purely an ornamental stone, with a yellow color. It is worth more than regular stone, but it's not an ore.

Oh. Sorry. I always thought that anything that ended with an "ite" in its name was an ore unless the wall tiles said so.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 03:57:54 pm

Via the internet: The suffix "ite" is derived from the Greek word lithos (from its adjectival form -ites), meaning rock or stone. While the vast majority of mineral names end in "ite," some have the suffixes "ine" or "ide."

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 30, 2011, 04:00:25 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 03:57:54 pm

Via the internet: The suffix "ite" is derived from the Greek word lithos (from its adjectival form -ites), meaning rock or stone. While the vast majority of mineral names end in "ite," some have the suffixes "ine" or "ide."

OK. I get it now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 04:11:18 pm

I swear I've learned more about stone and metals playing/modding dwarf fortress then I ever did going through geology in high school and college. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 04:26:41 pm

For a vanilla example, there's cobaltite.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 04:29:59 pm

Quote from: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 04:26:41 pm

For a vanilla example, there's cobaltite.

That's an odd example, though, since cobaltite uses the same boulder tile as ores. It, and cinnabar, have always felt like Toady intends to do something with them someday beyond being interesting colored stones.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 04:33:31 pm

That I will grant you.

But there's also granite (admittedly not pronounced the same), rhyolite, and diorite, as further examples of unexceptional stone ending in -ite.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: UristMcHuman on August 30, 2011, 04:50:08 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 04:29:59 pm

Quote from: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 04:26:41 pm

For a vanilla example, there's cobaltite.

That's an odd example, though, since cobaltite uses the same boulder tile as ores. It, and cinnabar, have always felt like Toady intends to do something with them someday beyond being interesting colored stones.

I myself have made Cobaltite an ore of nickel with a 10% chance to give an iron bar, too.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 06:16:28 pm

You may have done, but Toady certainly won't; cobaltite contains cobalt, arsenic, and sulfur. If Toady ever intends to put in cobalt, though, cobaltite would be the obvious ore for it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 30, 2011, 06:21:09 pm

Well, cobaltite does contain about 10% iron according to Wikipedia, as well as some percentage of nickle, so he's not being unreasonable about that. Not sure how easy it is to get those metals out of it, since it got its name for being an obvious ore that medieval smelters couldn't melt down.

Now, that's not to say dwarves shouldn't be able to get cobalt out of it, but it does make it reasonable that cobalt wouldn't be a regular metal for most of the world.

I, of course, decided to go a different direction with it and used it in Night and Void Crystal.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Shurhaian on August 30, 2011, 06:28:01 pm

Contains them, yes; but with up to 10% iron and, by the wording, possibly less nickel, it'd be a very inefficient ore. If it were found in large quantities and one had access to magma I suppose it could be used as a backup ore (20% iron, 15% nickel? Smelting is already more efficient than in the real world AFAIK), but at the same time it'd make sense to have it also yield a substance that boils at room temperature and causes some unpleasant syndromes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 31, 2011, 04:09:14 pm

Ok, I think we're up to a point where you guys can play around with the test version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4904) if you want.

It's not quite done yet. I still have to add library aspects to the other civs, and there are still some minor issues with creatures that I need to clean up. But for the most part it's functional.

Important things to know:

There is both a large single library (The Hall of Knowledge) and Library Sections. The Hall of Knowledge takes 1 book of each type. The library sections need 5 books of the same type. So, a Medical library will need 5 Medical Manuscripts.

Studying in a library takes 2 candles. These can be made of Wax or Tallow. There is a 50% chance that you will get a usable Glob of wax or Tallow back from each candle (depending on what the candle was, of course).

Books require Ink, Leather, Glue, and Paper/Parchment/Papyrus to make. Glue is gotten by rendering down hides or hooves from animals. Ink is made from Ash and Glue. (Actually, there is another recipe for ink but it requires Acacia to work).

The hides from different animals can now be better for use as armor. Cow leather is pretty decent, and Rhinoceros leather is pretty damn good. Apparently during the bronze age in china they mostly used Rhino leather for armor.

You can also use scaled hides now. There are also some new creatures in the world that have good hides. Various Drakes, Ironhide Centipedes, and Boulder Bugs are all pretty good. Well, for leather armor anyway.

Have fun with it and let me know what bugs you run into. I hope to have the actual release cleaned up and out in a week or so. I'm at the point where most of my testing needs to be long term forts, so it takes a while.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 31, 2011, 04:55:16 pm

Do you know off the top of your head which files have had the modifications added to them?
I really like the sounds of some of these new additions that you have made, but I don't want to lose the modifications I have made.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 31, 2011, 05:01:45 pm

Most of the Library stuff is in new files. There were some changes to the material templates file that effects it. Otherwise, I know entity default got changed as well as a bunch of the creature files.

Depending on how you extract the files from the zip you might be able to see when I changed them. Pretty much everything after the 12th of august was changed for this version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Fallen Flame on August 31, 2011, 05:04:54 pm

Well I think I managed to copy most of the new changes, as long as none of the previous files were changed (other than entity_default) then I should be good to go, I'll run it and see what happens error wise.

If there's a lot I may try to migrate my changes into your version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on August 31, 2011, 05:09:28 pm

This is a test version anyway, so having a separate install of DF just for it might be wise in any case.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 04, 2011, 11:25:45 pm

Anyone had a chance to play around with it yet?

Feedback?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Pan on September 05, 2011, 06:26:47 am

Can you list the highlights of this mod? I loved this mod back in 40d, but I see there's lots of changes, and it used to be mostly a content mod. Now it's clearly gone beyond that  :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Roses on September 05, 2011, 02:12:16 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on September 04, 2011, 11:25:45 pm

Anyone had a chance to play around with it yet?

Feedback?

I've had a bit of a chance. Haven't noticed any bugs yet, and I like the amount of materials it takes to build and use the libraries, makes it seem like actual work to get your skills up. I role play a bit and only let people with high skills write the books.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Seriyu on September 05, 2011, 07:30:28 pm

There seems to be two identical striker skills in the embark screen. Raising one will raise the other too so it doesn't really affect anything so far as I know but it does look wierd.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Stronghammer on September 05, 2011, 08:37:51 pm

Hey I noticed a few things. First parchment and paper dont stockpile anywhere. Second I have noticed a typo when you hit enter on make parchment reaction when it is unavailable parchment is listed with two p's. A third thing i noticed was that i had four hooves and made them into glue, i then made a single ink, however afterwords i had no glue. Does any of the things i did use more then one glue, as i should still have three glue.  Anyways this is what i have found so far, I dont know if is just me. Thanks

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 06, 2011, 11:13:22 am

@Pan: Most of what was in the 40d version has been ported over, with the exception of the Stone Guardians. Who may show up again with the next version of DF. As for new stuff, I now have a detailed ironworking section, an in-depth Alchemy system, and am currently working on a library/training system.

@Seriyu: Odd. I'll have to look at that.

@Stronghammer: The no-stockpiling issue I've noticed. I may try sticking them into boxes as part of the creation process. Hopefully then the boxes would at least get stockpiled.

  The typo I didn't know about. I'll see about getting that fixed.

  The hooves/glue issue is a standard bug in DF. An entire stack gets used up in a reaction, instead of just a single item. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about that. Although I suppose it's a bit more realistic in this case, since you get a single glue from an entire hide, you probably shouldn't get that much from just 1 hoof.


Thanks for the feedback, guys! Let me know what else you run across.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Sol Invictus on September 06, 2011, 12:26:28 pm

Mephansteras,
a possible solution to for the stockpile issue can be found in the "DF Synthetics - plastics industry mod v 0.31" created by Reelyanoob.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84471 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=84471)

I am not a modder but I modified the Civilization Forge RAW to replicate the structures of DF Synthetics.
Those changes allow me to store the alchemy products in a stockpiles. The powders are going together with milled plants and the "liquids" under Plant extract.
Probably this is not the best solution but it is working...At least for me, this is better than nothing.
In addition to the storage in stockpile I can now purchase the alchemy products during the embark (not much useful considering the cost) and probably they can also be requested to outpost liaison.
I did not yet have any time to test the reactions but I am confident they will work.
If you are interested i can post the modified RAW files

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 06, 2011, 12:35:20 pm

The Alchemy supplies should all show up in stockpiles already. And powders can already be traded for/requested from the liaison. Although if you have a way to trade for the liquids that could be useful.

The stockpile issue we're currently dealing with is paper/parchment for the new libraries. For some reason the game isn't recognizing them as a stockpile-able item. Probably because they're tools with an unusual material.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 12, 2011, 01:10:09 pm

Any more reports from the test version?

Unfortunately I've been too busy to do much testing of it lately. And probably won't really have much time until next week.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: darthbob88 on September 13, 2011, 09:07:55 pm

One small problem; both the Crystal Furnace and the Magma Crystal Furnace have the hotkey "R". The Crystal Furnace proper should probably have the hotkey "r", yes? Also, for some reason sugar beetle, cave crab, and giant ant eggs are not usable in cooking.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Anathema on September 14, 2011, 08:49:47 am

Would you want to eat a beetle egg?

I know, I know, given some of the other things dwarves can eat, I guess that should be allowable too. Still..

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 14, 2011, 09:34:39 am

Odd. I'll check into it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: darthbob88 on September 22, 2011, 01:08:04 pm

Been playing it a bit more and I have to say, I am very pleased at just how "import-friendly" the alchemy and ironworks additions are; there is nothing, possibly barring truesilver, that I have to mine out or grow inside my fortress, all the raw materials can be imported. Even the gems I need to make the elixirs can be imported if I really want to.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 22, 2011, 01:13:11 pm

Glad to hear that's all working well for you! With how limited the range of minerals/gems is at sites now I wanted to make sure that alchemy was viable via trade as much as possible.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Gizogin on September 22, 2011, 08:45:38 pm

So, 'crucible steel' is harder than steel and comes from ilmenite?  It's titanium.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 22, 2011, 09:40:20 pm

Quote from: Gizogin on September 22, 2011, 08:45:38 pm

So, 'crucible steel' is harder than steel and comes from ilmenite?  It's titanium.

Actually, it's an alloy of steel that contains Vanadium.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Seriyu on September 24, 2011, 12:25:45 am

I can't seem to use bauxite or rock salt for their respective alchemical things in the alchemy lab.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2011, 11:13:39 am

Huh. Ok, I'll test those out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: qqq122 on September 24, 2011, 12:55:58 pm

i cant find the Alchemy Workbench or the Jarmaker's Workshop or the Oil Press.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2011, 03:25:20 pm

Quote from: qqq122 on September 24, 2011, 12:55:58 pm

i cant find the Alchemy Workbench or the Jarmaker's Workshop or the Oil Press.

None of those are needed anymore.

You can make jars from stone, clay, or glass using the normal workshops. Same way you'd make pots or jugs.

The oil press capabilities came in Vanilla DF with the Screw Press, so you just that now. You can use Rock Nuts to make oil by milling it to paste and then pressing it. Same thing you'd do to make oil for soap. Tunnel tubes no longer give oil, but if you trade or find oil pods you can use them the same way you use rock nuts.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on October 03, 2011, 10:57:24 am

Quote from: Seriyu on September 24, 2011, 12:25:45 am

I can't seem to use bauxite or rock salt for their respective alchemical things in the alchemy lab.

They work fine for me. I wonder if there is a tag missing in the files you have. I'll make sure all the files are synced up properly with the next release.

On that note, I spend a good chunk of time this weekend testing and tweaking the mod. It's just about ready for full scale release, which I'm hoping to have out in the next day or two.

Any more bugs or issues with the test files?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 09, 2011, 12:14:34 pm

Nice mod, might give it a spin :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Seriyu on October 09, 2011, 07:05:18 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on October 03, 2011, 10:57:24 am

Quote from: Seriyu on September 24, 2011, 12:25:45 am

I can't seem to use bauxite or rock salt for their respective alchemical things in the alchemy lab.

They work fine for me. I wonder if there is a tag missing in the files you have. I'll make sure all the files are synced up properly with the next release.

On that note, I spend a good chunk of time this weekend testing and tweaking the mod. It's just about ready for full scale release, which I'm hoping to have out in the next day or two.

Any more bugs or issues with the test files?

Very possible, I had some issues installing it as I forgot a few things, then copied it from the non test version or something, so there might be a few mixed up raw files in there.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: tigervx on December 12, 2011, 03:42:37 pm

I'm bumping this thread since I'm going to be playing a game of Dwarf Fortress again, and despite looking through the mods forum, there are just no other mods that do the same thing that Civilization Forge does.

Is this mod still being worked on? It'd be a shame if it just kinda died out.

Also, on an unrelated note, is there any chance to lower the possibility of sieges and ambushes? Because when you're bordered by 6+ hostile races, thing spiral out of control real fast. It's still fun, but you will never receive another caravan again.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on December 12, 2011, 04:06:45 pm

It's sort of been on hiatus as I've been working on other stuff. But it does occur to me that I never officially released the Library version, so I should do that soon.

As for dialing back the sieges...that's a little tougher to do. The game doesn't really give me a decent way to do that. However, as an easy fix you could just restrict yourself to 1 or 2 hostile races in a world gen. Say, Violet Xelics and Bugbears for one world and Chaos Dwarves and Sand Raiders for another. It's pretty easy to do, you just stick all of the entity files you don't want into a folder while you do the world gen and just bring them back out when you want them. Goblins are still in the default entity file with dwarves, humans, and elves, though, so you're kind of stuck with them unless you put in the effort to split them out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Nice Save on December 13, 2011, 04:19:22 am

Quote from: tigervx on December 12, 2011, 03:42:37 pm

Also, on an unrelated note, is there any chance to lower the possibility of sieges and ambushes? Because when you're bordered by 6+ hostile races, thing spiral out of control real fast. It's still fun, but you will never receive another caravan again.

I went into the entity files and changed the active seasons of all hostile races to summer, and non-hostile races to all other months. That way you can have both worlds, at least in theory.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Kon on December 26, 2011, 01:34:29 pm

I'm getting a crash every time the vamarian caravan shows up. I'm playing version 2.42. Anyone else have this problem?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on December 26, 2011, 01:43:09 pm

Quote from: Kon on December 26, 2011, 01:34:29 pm

I'm getting a crash every time the vamarian caravan shows up. I'm playing version 2.42. Anyone else have this problem?

Hmm. I haven't seen that, but it could be related to a creature. Might be fixed in the newest version, since I did muck with some of the creatures.

In related news, I'm running some final tests to work out a few bugs I found. I plan on releasing the Library edition this week so people can play with that for a bit. I know Toady will have out a new version of DF in the next few months, but this should tide people over for a bit.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on January 12, 2012, 10:14:38 pm

Sorry about the delay on this, folks, I've been getting a crash on my latest test fort and haven't been able to pin down what it is.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Nice Save on January 14, 2012, 02:11:03 am

Quote from: Kon on December 26, 2011, 01:34:29 pm

I'm getting a crash every time the vamarian caravan shows up. I'm playing version 2.42. Anyone else have this problem?

If you make a back door for your traders so there's only one place on the edge of the map that's depot accessible, sometimes two caravans will try to spawn on the same square and crash the game.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Kon on January 26, 2012, 10:38:22 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on January 12, 2012, 10:14:38 pm

Sorry about the delay on this, folks, I've been getting a crash on my latest test fort and haven't been able to pin down what it is.

Does it occur when a caravan shows up? What is the last entry in the log file?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.42 - Alchemy Bug Fix
Post by: Mephansteras on January 26, 2012, 11:08:30 am

Quote from: Kon on January 26, 2012, 10:38:22 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on January 12, 2012, 10:14:38 pm

Sorry about the delay on this, folks, I've been getting a crash on my latest test fort and haven't been able to pin down what it is.

Does it occur when a caravan shows up? What is the last entry in the log file?

One time it was after a caravan showed up. Another time it was after a cat had kittens. And another time the last few messages were just about some craftsdwarf creating masterpieces. It's odd and I haven't been able to pin it down at all.

I did start up another fort, which has been going along ok without any errors at all. So I'm wondering if it's just one of those rare DF bugs and I shouldn't worry about it too much. Although the next release of DF should be within the next few weeks so...eh.

I guess I can release it as-is. People will either play with it or wait, and I'll be working on the next version soon regardless.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 28, 2012, 07:02:21 pm

Ok, new version is up!

Sorry for the lack of documentation. Hopefully it's all easy enough to figure out in game. If not, feel free to ask questions.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: TehNoob on January 29, 2012, 08:23:05 am

How powerful are violet xeiics, frost giants and hobgoblins?? I intend to give this mod a go, and I'd like to poke around and see what I'm in for.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 29, 2012, 01:04:21 pm

Quote from: TehNoob on January 29, 2012, 08:23:05 am

How powerful are violet xeiics, frost giants and hobgoblins?? I intend to give this mod a go, and I'd like to poke around and see what I'm in for.

Violet Xelics can be nasty, since they can carry multiple shields, but they don't wear armor as often as other races so they're not too bad. Hobgoblins are slightly tougher than goblins, but you won't actually fight them or the Frost Giants unless your civ is at war with them. Frost Giants are brutal if you actually have to fight them, although they don't use missile weapons so they're pretty easy to pick off if you get them blocked off.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Kon on January 30, 2012, 02:06:38 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on January 28, 2012, 07:02:21 pm

Ok, new version is up!

Yeah! In my current Civ Forge fort, I will soon (3 or 4 dwarf years) be ready to unleash the forces of hell. Whether that goes well or not, my next fort will use the new version.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on February 22, 2012, 05:51:37 am

does this work with the latest version of DF?

it seems it wouldn't but reading raws is painfully slow when I don't know what I'm looking for.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 22, 2012, 11:23:11 am

It will not work with the current version. I've started the slow process of going through everything and converting things as necessary, but it'll be a bit before I have the mod compatible with 34.x.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on February 23, 2012, 03:34:09 am

I don't suppose it would be possible to get the things you do have done? I'm anxious to play! :3 I tried moving over plants and minerals myself but decided it was too much work and that my understanding of things is too low to do it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 23, 2012, 10:36:28 am

Quote from: Sabre of Pain on February 23, 2012, 03:34:09 am

I don't suppose it would be possible to get the things you do have done? I'm anxious to play! :3 I tried moving over plants and minerals myself but decided it was too much work and that my understanding of things is too low to do it.

Well, not at the state that it is in currently. But I could do a staged approach where I do various mini-releases of the mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on February 24, 2012, 01:48:33 am

that'd be cool, I mean plants and minerals should be relatively easy to add in right?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: thistleknot on February 24, 2012, 06:18:22 am

I loved civ forge in 31.25.  It was way harder than the current iteration of DwFort.  If your editing mainly similar raw's, I would suspect using an editor that does text diff/comparison's would come in handy.  I personally use pspad (I've used it in modding myself for other games, primarily Call to Power 2) and it's great.  It will highlight all different text lines of varying sizes between two similar documents.  Might want to check it out (although you may already have a tool you use).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 24, 2012, 11:56:41 am

Yeah, I use WinMerge to help me with that sort of thing. Lots of minor changes in files this time (Like animals getting Tongues), but I can see about getting plants and minerals done first. I'd meant to get a bunch of modding done last night, but ended up not having time to do much.

Hopefully tonight will be less eventful.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Sabre of Pain on February 27, 2012, 07:01:02 am

hey, you might already do this idk but i had an idea, what if you had all the changes your made to the raws in their own txt files so that if theres ever another compatibility break you can just copy paste the stuff that still works (like buildings reactions minerals and plants)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 27, 2012, 11:22:54 am

Quote from: Sabre of Pain on February 27, 2012, 07:01:02 am

hey, you might already do this idk but i had an idea, what if you had all the changes your made to the raws in their own txt files so that if theres ever another compatibility break you can just copy paste the stuff that still works (like buildings reactions minerals and plants)

Well, everything new in Civilization Forge already has its own file. Changes for existing files...that probably wouldn't be any more convenient than doing the merge, since I'd have to remember where it all goes anyway.

My current system works pretty well, I just haven't had as much time to Mod this past week as I'd have liked.

However, I think I have things far enough along to release an interim version. Haven't been able to do the various new civilizations, creatures, or get the Library stuff reworked to deal with the books in the game yet, but everything else seems to work ok.

So I'll try to get that packaged out and released some point today.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Library and Training edition!
Post by: Mephansteras on February 27, 2012, 08:26:23 pm

Ok, I have an Interim release (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5719) uploaded. Lots of stuff still missing, but most of the core stuff you should be used to is in.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Sabre of Pain on March 01, 2012, 12:21:59 pm

thanks meph!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 01, 2012, 05:43:22 pm

Since .34.04 is still .34.xx, should this work "ok" with .04?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2012, 05:59:45 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on March 01, 2012, 05:43:22 pm

Since .34.04 is still .34.xx, should this work "ok" with .04?

Yeah, should be ok. There were a few minor raws changes between .02 and .04, but nothing should break.

Making good progress on getting the full conversion done. I'm hoping to have it ready in the next few days.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 01, 2012, 08:36:15 pm

Does toady ever consider using these mods?  I love yours.  I know you prolly run into limitations when you make mod's (gotta love dfhack).  It's just I want to donate to you, because you make the game more challenging, but I think it's weird and unfair to donate to a developer plus a modder, especially if the modder knows he's limited.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2012, 08:56:52 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on March 01, 2012, 08:36:15 pm

Does toady ever consider using these mods?  I love yours.  I know you prolly run into limitations when you make mod's (gotta love dfhack).  It's just I want to donate to you, because you make the game more challenging, but I think it's weird and unfair to donate to a developer plus a modder, especially if the modder knows he's limited.

Last I heard Toady doesn't use anything from mods to avoid any concerns about legal "He stole my XXXXX!! I deserve money!" issues. Which is cool, although if he did want anything that I did I'd be happy to have him use it.

As for donations, that's really cool of you, but I'm hardly hurting for money. So you can just donate more to Toady if you want. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 01, 2012, 09:12:35 pm

well that's a good situation.  Prolly best, keeps you modding.  Secondly.  Worldgen on 34.04 created a warning of low number of civ's the 1st time, second time, crash!  But... I set everything to +1 normal, then reduced world size by 1 after the low number of civ's warning.  Then the crash came on the Medium world size with everything else +1.  I was able to get a world up the second time by leaving everything alone, and reducing world size to 1 lower than default.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 09, 2012, 09:21:38 am

Have you considered passing your work onto Masterwork Dwarf Fortress?  Apparently masterwork Dwarf Fortress uses both Fortress Defense Mod 2 and Genesis stuff.  I think it would be awesome if it had your stuff as well.  I really like the bug races your mod made.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 11:11:44 am

I suppose if he wants to use parts of it he's welcome to. *shrug*

In other news, I should have the release out shortly. I'm just doing some final testing with 34.05 to make sure everything works ok.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 09, 2012, 11:25:16 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 11:11:44 am

I suppose if he wants to use parts of it he's welcome to. *shrug*

In other news, I should have the release out shortly. I'm just doing some final testing with 34.05 to make sure everything works ok.

That doesn't sound like your too excited about it.  Your work would continue to live on.  Just in one consolodated project.  If you check out Masterwork Dwarf Fortress, in the creatures section it states "Fortress Defense creatures".  So it does give credit to the original mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 12:11:19 pm

Well, but I plan on continuing this project and doing my own thing, so I don't really have any desire to merge into someone else's project.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Meph on March 09, 2012, 02:21:02 pm

Hi,

Just got the message about this. Deon gave me his work directly in the beginning, and the FD Mod was added without any changes. But I usually take ideas from small mods, improvements and so forth. I dont plan to add a big mod into an already big mod. If people want me to have some features that you do, and I dont, then I would be glad if I can offer this option to them. It would still be a tiny portion of the mod in the end.

Just sent me a PM about it, I dont even know what he wants from your mod in mine though. Or what exactly all the features of the Civ Forge are. ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 02:50:40 pm

Mostly new races, equipment, alchemy, and libraries. Sounds like he'd like the Xelics and possibly some of the Giant Insect creatures, but I'd have to let him speak to that himself. But if you do see anything you really want to use, feel free. As long as I get credit I don't mind pieces being taken. I know the Ironworks section has been used in a few different mods, including Genesis.

Btw, your name throws me for a loop every time I see it, since that's usually how people shorthand mine.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Meph on March 09, 2012, 02:59:14 pm

Well, I am always Meph or Mephistopheles, did not know about your nick ;) Must be weird, Hey Meph, you should really add this mod to mephs mod. lol, what ? ;)

Giant Insect race I dont have, but an underground antmen civ that sieges you in the caverns and wields three shields. Using the vanilla DF castes, worker, soldier and queen. You xelics are a real above-ground civ, right ?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 03:04:42 pm

Yeah, there are two of them. Silver Xelics are trading partners, kind of like less annoying elves. Violet Xelics are a snatching race, and can be pretty nasty. Mostly because they carry 2 or 3 shields into combat with the extra arms.

They're based more on beetles than ants, so no castes or anything like that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 09, 2012, 03:06:48 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 02:50:40 pm

Mostly new races, equipment, alchemy, and libraries. Sounds like he'd like the Xelics and possibly some of the Giant Insect creatures, but I'd have to let him speak to that himself. But if you do see anything you really want to use, feel free. As long as I get credit I don't mind pieces being taken. I know the Ironworks section has been used in a few different mods, including Genesis.

Btw, your name throws me for a loop every time I see it, since that's usually how people shorthand mine.

yes, the giant insect races kick ass because they have like 5 arms so they can wield multiple weapons.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Meph on March 09, 2012, 03:14:32 pm

@thistleknot: So what feature is it that interests you, the xelics ? I have the antmen, they are not too far away from them, but I could replace the ants, with this more fantasic creation. Would add more flavor (?)

@meph :P : The alchemy system looks very impressive. And very difficult to learn. How were the reports you got about it ? Do most people use it, or disregard it because they found it overburdened ? 

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 03:17:23 pm

Alchemy is...probably underused due to the complexity. It does add some fun for people who like interesting and complex work interactions to play around with, but I imagine most people just ignore it and import the various metals. It'll get more use once I add in stuff with Interactions from the current version, since I'll be able to do stuff that isn't just 'a better metal' then you can do with the smelter.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: Meph on March 09, 2012, 03:33:10 pm

Good luck with the interactions, you can do tons of stuff. It is maddening, since one does not know when to stop. I want to do diseases after I finish with the mage system, but that will be complex and hard to balance.

I refrained from doing chemistry/proper alchemy yet, exactly because of the complexity. Not so difficult to set up, but make it easily understandable is a real task.

I will have a look through your mod, and if anything strikes out and I would like to use it, I will PM you. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: thistleknot on March 09, 2012, 05:55:48 pm

Sand raiders were cool too!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.50 - Plus Interim 34.02 edition
Post by: trees on March 09, 2012, 11:00:05 pm

Posting so that I don't forget to check for updates regularly. Always enjoyed this mod, odd that I've yet to post.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 11:58:47 pm

Civilization Forge 2.6 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is released! Should be in pretty good shape, although there is a known bug with error messages stemming from broken eyelid raws with forgotten beasts and other generated creatures. Doesn't seem to hurt anything too much, but I'm looking into it.


Let me know if you run into any bugs.

As for the future, I am planning on exploring the new interactions system to make Alchemy much more interesting and worthwhile. New potions, possibly some traps, and probably a return of the old 40d Stone Guardians in some form.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on March 10, 2012, 12:41:33 am

you think I can copy my game from my interim?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2012, 12:50:19 am

Yeah, there aren't many changes from that so your save should be ok.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: trees on March 10, 2012, 04:20:57 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on March 09, 2012, 11:58:47 pm

Should be in pretty good shape, although there is a known bug with error messages stemming from broken eyelid raws with forgotten beasts and other generated creatures. Doesn't seem to hurt anything too much, but I'm looking into it.

Sounds like an issue with one of the raw changes that was in vanilla 0.34.05.

From file_changes.txt:

Code: [Select]

body parts
new eyelids in rcp body
body plans
fixed r_eye/l_eye
I think [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS] is what was changed. This is what it looks like in .34.05:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
This command lets you assign a position within the parent to all bodyparts that fit in a group.
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_TOKEN:R_EAR:RIGHT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_TOKEN:L_EAR:LEFT]
This command lets you establish a relationship between bodyparts within their parent bodypart.  The number establishes the extent to which the relationship holds (only used for bodyparts, not the tissue relationships above).
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:BRAIN:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:R_EYELID:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:REYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:L_EYELID:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:LEYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:EYELID:AROUND:BY_TOKEN:EYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:R_EYELID:CLEANS:BY_TOKEN:REYE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:L_EYELID:CLEANS:BY_TOKEN:LEYE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:EYELID:CLEANS:BY_TOKEN:EYE:100]

Compared to .34.03:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
This command lets you assign a position within the parent to all bodyparts that fit in a group.
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:FRONT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_TOKEN:R_EAR:RIGHT]
[BP_POSITION:BY_TOKEN:L_EAR:LEFT]
This command lets you establish a relationship between bodyparts within their parent bodypart.  The number establishes the extent to which the relationship holds (only used for bodyparts, not the tissue relationships above).
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TEETH:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:LIP:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:TONGUE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_CATEGORY:SKULL:AROUND:BY_CATEGORY:BRAIN:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:R_EYELID:AROUND:R_EYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:L_EYELID:AROUND:L_EYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:EYELID:AROUND:EYE:50]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:R_EYELID:CLEANS:R_EYE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:L_EYELID:CLEANS:L_EYE:100]
[BP_RELATION:BY_TOKEN:EYELID:CLEANS:EYE:100]

Looks like the underscores were removed for R_EYE and L_EYE, is all. Should be a simple fix.

As for body_rcp, it looks like the following replaced the old [BODY:RCP_EYELIDS]:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[BODY:RCP_1_EYELID]
[BP:EYELID:eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:4]

[BODY:RCP_2_EYELIDS]
[BP:L_EYELID:left eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2]
[BP:R_EYELID:right eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2]

[BODY:RCP_3_EYELIDS]
[BP:L_EYELID:left eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2]
[BP:R_EYELID:right eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2]
[BP:EYELID:center eyelid:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][CATEGORY:EYELID][SMALL][EMBEDDED]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2]

Hope this helps! For all I know you might have already solved this by now, but I felt like I should give back to someone who's made something that I've spent a lot of time enjoying.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2012, 04:29:14 pm

Yeah, it was body_rcp that was the culprit. I'd thought I'd fixed it but it looks like the fixed file didn't make it in with the others.

Thanks, though, you made me go back and check it!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Meph on March 12, 2012, 12:37:05 am

Just wanted to let you know: Poll results:
#1. Keep Antmen Civ as it is. (keeps realistic creatures) 39 (34.2%)
#1. Replace with Xelics from CivForgeII. (similar creatures, just fantastic version) 15 (13.2%)

Twice as many people want to keep the good old ants, so your intellectual property is save from me ;) Although if I ever do an chemistry/alchemy system I know who to ask, I dont think anyone has done a more complex one then you.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Drago55577 on March 17, 2012, 10:15:43 pm

so does this has the reaction things when you press x?

like in genesis (i think) but im downloading, looks good

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Anathema on March 26, 2012, 01:00:12 am

Civilization Forge with Mayday graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) has been updated to 34.06.

Sorry about the delay, for the first few weeks I was waiting on CivForge's updated to 34.xx, and then I couldn't resist waiting for the training and clothing changes in 34.06. Now that we have both Mayday 34.06 and a version of CivForge to go with it, I've finally gotten around to updating the graphics pack.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Anathema on March 31, 2012, 09:46:10 pm

And CivForge with Mayday graphics (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) is updated again to bring it up to 34.07 (plus a couple minor bug fixes).

Should be save compatible for those that got the 34.06 version. After copying your 34.06 save folder into the 34.07 version, if you want to get the bug fixes, you'll have to copy all 'language' files and creature_domestic_cf from 34.07/raw/objects to 34.07/data/save/yoursavename/raw/objects.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on April 02, 2012, 11:54:48 am

Thanks, Anathema! I'll get this link added to the OP.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Paramatter on April 08, 2012, 07:41:28 pm

I think I've spotted an error in creature_crustacean_cf.txt;  CRAB_EMERALD and CRAB_SEA_GIANT both have "giant sea crab" in all of their name tokens, I imagine that one of those is supposed to be called something else?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on April 08, 2012, 11:50:16 pm

Good catch! Ill get that fixed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Jeoshua on April 09, 2012, 03:38:12 pm

Been a while since I've been around but I come back to see all my favorites, including the actual game itself, updated to wonderous shiny new splendor! Amazing.

Slight bug in the "34.07 compatible" version of Civ Forge tho.  The Body_RCP.txt file is not updated to 34.07's version at all, and contains no real changes otherwise.  This causes world gen to fail out with a long string of complaints about eyelids in the error log.  Using the original file from the 34.07 version of DF's original raws seems to fix the problem and allow worldgen to complete.

Kudos anyways.  I couldn't play DF without CF (and other things of course)

Edit: Spoke too soon.  I'm getting a continuous error on worldgenning a custom map.  I'm going to try a random map with default values and see if the problem keeps occuring.  It might be something in my worldgen parameters, but it's a CTD during the history portion so I kind of doubt it has to do with the world itself...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on April 09, 2012, 03:49:50 pm

Hmm. Ok, I'll see if I can upload a new version tonight. I fixed a few minor issues like that, so maybe your crash bug is fixed as well. I'm not having any errors popping up on my world gens, at least.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Jeoshua on April 09, 2012, 03:59:02 pm

It seems I may have left some dll files from a previous version of DF in the root directory of my installation.  Changing them out and I generated a few pocket universes and am currently generating the custom world I wanted without the same problem.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Zale on April 15, 2012, 12:35:45 am

How.. Exactly do you use the other races? I can't for the life of me figure it out.

EDIT: I mean, is it possible to play as any of these in Fortress Mode?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on April 15, 2012, 01:02:10 am

Quote from: Zale on April 15, 2012, 12:35:45 am

How.. Exactly do you use the other races? I can't for the life of me figure it out.

EDIT: I mean, is it possible to play as any of these in Fortress Mode?

Not by default, no. Although it's a fairly simple change in the raws to play as another race. Getting them to work in a way that feels non-dwarven...that takes a bit more work. What race did you want to play as?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Stiefel on April 29, 2012, 03:18:55 pm

In my kennels it seems that I can't train war dogs. This became an issue only when I installed this mod, so it's probably related to this mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on April 29, 2012, 04:56:50 pm

Quote from: Stiefel on April 29, 2012, 03:18:55 pm

In my kennels it seems that I can't train war dogs. This became an issue only when I installed this mod, so it's probably related to this mod.

That's not the mod, it's the new version of DF. Training is now assigned via the Animals screen off of the main fortress status screen (z).

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Tierre on May 03, 2012, 07:05:30 am

Could you please update README file in archive?:) It is really confusing downloading 2.6 and seeing in readme that it is 2.3 with changes up to 2.5 O_O
And no word about 2.6:)
btw in body_rcp files toady made 2-3 eyelids parts while you don't have them in archive and only got eyelids.... need rework here i think.
Thanks for your great work anyway - i use your mod for more than 1 year in all releases (well with changes to suit myself).

Also you got a mistype in file creature_large_temperate - in red panda : [DESCRIPTION:A small tree-dwelling mammal will distinctive color. - should be with

In creature_ocean_new - shouldn't horseshoe crab have [AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM] tags?

In creature_savage_tropical - scorpions are not insects but arachnids... so Toady is right in its description of [CREATURE:SCORPION_DESERT_GIANT]
   [DESCRIPTION:A gigantic arachnid with huge pincers and a poisonous barbed tail.

Also why did you delete all [BENIGN] tags from all creatures? Was it intentional to make them appear in savage biomes?

in creature_birds_new [CREATURE:GIANT_BUSHTIT] have wrong prefstring - [PREFSTRING:small size] should be    [PREFSTRING:somewhat great size] as it is waaaaay bigger than original (in 40007 times actually) so i guess it's not that little anymore.

Another thing - file material_template_plant_cf is empty.... is this intended?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2012, 10:28:16 am

Most of those issues are actually vanilla DF. I didn't add in or touch any of those creatures. Might want to submit a bug report on those to Toady.

I can go in and fix them for Civ Forge, though.

And, yeah, the Readme needs to be overhauled a bit, I just haven't had time to really do much with it. I need to get everything cleaned up a bit and sorted out. There is still some lingering stuff from previous versions that really doesn't need to be cluttering stuff up anymore.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Tierre on May 03, 2012, 01:35:07 pm

Well i was modding ironhand 0.68 - 34.07 which is a copy of vanilla 34.07 but with his tileset and after modding some of my ideas i started to installing your CivForge with WinMerge (so that i can change everything to Ironhabd on the fly and let my modifications be left alone:)). And this is all the things i found which actually differ from original raws. I checked with vanilla ASCII 3407 DF and they are the same - so i guess it was an issue in 34.05 and already repaired in 34.07. I hope i helped a little.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on May 03, 2012, 02:26:20 pm

*pokes*
Ahoy mang :D

Did I miss the Primtive Civ for the newest version yet/
Or is it still under works?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 03, 2012, 06:41:51 pm

Quote from: Crossroads Inc. on May 03, 2012, 02:26:20 pm

*pokes*
Ahoy mang :D

Did I miss the Primtive Civ for the newest version yet/
Or is it still under works?

Still under works, sorry. Haven't had too much time to mod lately, and I haven't gotten around to fixing them up yet. I'm hoping to have some time this weekend though!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on May 04, 2012, 07:22:55 am

No worries.
I am proly the only one who really wants this mod :P

I guess I just liek having a bunch of extra races without changing the basic game too much.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Pan on May 04, 2012, 07:59:03 am

I remember this mod back in 40d. I loved it back then. What's the new versions got to offer in a nutshell?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 04, 2012, 10:56:52 am

Quote from: Pan on May 04, 2012, 07:59:03 am

I remember this mod back in 40d. I loved it back then. What's the new versions got to offer in a nutshell?

Most of the stuff from 40d is still in, plus an expanded Alchemy system as well as Libraries and Training dummies. Oh, and a more detailed and flexible Ironworks system that makes the steel industry more realistic.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Saeldanya on May 07, 2012, 09:02:49 am

I'm quite fond of war trained giant beetles. However, I've noticed that newborn beetle larvae keep on being snatched up as pets and then cannot be war trained. Can this be fixed with some sort of change in the text files? Or if not, can they be set to unavailable as standard in a future version of the mod?

Thanks much!

p.s. I noticed that unlike an older version of the mod, the beetles now no longer need to be pastured to survive. This helps a lot. Thanks for that change!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 07, 2012, 11:21:25 am

Quote from: Saeldanya on May 07, 2012, 09:02:49 am

I'm quite fond of war trained giant beetles. However, I've noticed that newborn beetle larvae keep on being snatched up as pets and then cannot be war trained. Can this be fixed with some sort of change in the text files? Or if not, can they be set to unavailable as standard in a future version of the mod?

Hmm. I haven't noticed this issue. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Tierre on May 13, 2012, 10:21:02 am

Are OIL_NUTs working in producing oil? In my 31.25 version i never seen them used up to make oil though i had few hundreds of them. I even made burrows with workshops and food stockpile which had only oil nuts - never worked:( Is it working in 2.6? Or i will have to do personal reaction to make it into oil.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on May 13, 2012, 10:31:05 am

Just wanted to say, I'm still using this mod (vs Masterwork).  I read that Masterwork was too crammed full of stuff (altho... I hear they have awesome siegers).

But after hearing Masterwork didn't really incorporate anything of civforge, I think I'm gonna be hard dier here until I burn out on civforge

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 13, 2012, 12:22:01 pm

Quote from: Tierre on May 13, 2012, 10:21:02 am

Are OIL_NUTs working in producing oil? In my 31.25 version i never seen them used up to make oil though i had few hundreds of them. I even made burrows with workshops and food stockpile which had only oil nuts - never worked:( Is it working in 2.6? Or i will have to do personal reaction to make it into oil.

Hmm. It's supposed to work. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the head's up!

@thistleknot: Thanks for the support!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on May 18, 2012, 07:53:59 am

Hey, I had some ideas...

what do you think of a building/power source, a steam magma forge.
  all it does is make steam to generate power...
  benefits are, no more vertical axles to get power below ground, just a water source.

what about building's that act as ballista's/catapults, hopefully to circumvent the z level problem currently associated with siege weapons.  I started a discussion on the forums about modding ballista's to shoot across z levels.  Someone said it might be possible to create a weapon that shoots boulders...

???QUESTION???

Does your version (2.6) remove access to wheelbarrels?  I can't seem to build one from within a carpenter's workshop inside version 34.09.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 18, 2012, 09:57:14 am

2.6 isn't compatible with 34.09 yet. I'm hoping I'll finally have time to get 2.70 done this evening.

As for the ideas, I'll have to see what is possible in the new version. I know that you couldn't generate power in earlier versions, but I haven't even had a chance to look at the raw changes yet so I'm not sure if that is possible now. It might be, with the rollers and whatnot. We'll have to see. Same with the siege weapons. Before they were hard coded, not sure if there is anything we can do yet but it might be interesting to see.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on May 18, 2012, 11:50:08 am

Any update of the prim civs?
Should be less work next to how ambtious your full mod is ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Meph on May 18, 2012, 12:14:55 pm

So far as I know power still cant be generated and siege engines are still not modable. Would be nice though...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on May 18, 2012, 12:28:59 pm

Quote from: Meph on May 18, 2012, 12:14:55 pm

So far as I know power still cant be generated and siege engines are still not modable. Would be nice though...

just think of the steam magma forge as a windmill that sits on magma (but doesn't need flow).

tada, instant steam magma forge underground!

Of course.... there should be water somehow implemented as a requirement.

Here was the discussion on catapults and z-levels

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104027.msg3076181#msg3076181 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104027.msg3076181#msg3076181)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 18, 2012, 12:58:01 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on May 18, 2012, 12:28:59 pm

Quote from: Meph on May 18, 2012, 12:14:55 pm

So far as I know power still cant be generated and siege engines are still not modable. Would be nice though...

just think of the steam magma forge as a windmill that sits on magma (but doesn't need flow).

tada, instant steam magma forge underground!

Of course.... there should be water somehow implemented as a requirement.

Here was the discussion on catapults and z-levels

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104027.msg3076181#msg3076181 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104027.msg3076181#msg3076181)

As far as I know, though, Windmills/watermills are hardcoded. There isn't anything in the raws that deals with power generation.

The movable siege engines as a creature is interesting. Might be able to get that to work. I'll have to ponder it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Asra on May 20, 2012, 11:29:46 am

Any hope on 34.09 compatibility soon?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on May 20, 2012, 11:56:36 am

Quote from: Asra on May 20, 2012, 11:29:46 am

Any hope on 34.09 compatibility soon?

ooh ooh, me too

btw, he's working on it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Jeoshua on May 20, 2012, 11:56:41 am

I made a suggestion a year ago about [NEEDS_POWER:x] and [GENERATES_POWER:x] tags for buildings.  It was well recieved.  It isn't in the game.

And that's precisely what would be required to make a Magma forge that generates power.  That or a hardcoded building of the same type.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 20, 2012, 02:40:54 pm

Quote from: Asra on May 20, 2012, 11:29:46 am

Any hope on 34.09 compatibility soon?

Soon, yes! I'm going through my tests today. I'm hoping that it will all work ok and I'll be able to put out a version tonight. But we'll see how it goes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: thistleknot on May 21, 2012, 10:42:39 pm

woohoo!  Civ Forge 2.70...

wait...


oh man!

(secretly scurry's back to Masterwork which supports 34.09... btw, that's guys a hard core mf modder...  bikes all over the world, and still has time to mod, wtf is up with that? (sorry... be watching too much 'the wire' slang)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2012, 11:37:30 pm

Civilization Forge 2.70 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277) is now ready for download.

I think everything works ok, but I didn't get a chance to really test everything fully. Seems to run fine, though. Please let me know if you run into any bugs!

Primitive Civs is next. I'm hoping to get them rolled back in tomorrow (as well as a separate download for Crossroads). Busy week for me, though, so we'll see. Mostly just depend on how much free time work leaves me with during the day.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Pan on May 21, 2012, 11:41:44 pm

Won't primitive civilizations sort of clutter everything up? I mean, I'd hate to have a 1 squad primitive frog man race come and block the dwarven caravan...

Also, I suppose this is compatible with Legend of Forlorn Realms mod, right?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Jeoshua on May 21, 2012, 11:48:13 pm

In my experience, the Primitive Civs are kind of lame during worldgen.  They get beat up on and therefore make up a sort of "savage" race group.  If any significant amount of dwarves, humans, goblins, or elves are in the area they tend not to survive long.  This means you get Ruins and ancient stories about animal men in legends/engravings... but not so many seiges unless you're stuck on an island with just them.

As it should be!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.60
Post by: Mephansteras on May 21, 2012, 11:54:19 pm

Quote from: Pan on May 21, 2012, 11:41:44 pm

Won't primitive civilizations sort of clutter everything up? I mean, I'd hate to have a 1 squad primitive frog man race come and block the dwarven caravan...

Also, I suppose this is compatible with Legend of Forlorn Realms mod, right?

They can clutter stuff up, but you're free to use any number of them. Or none at all.

As for Legend of Forlorn Realms, I have no idea. Perhaps someone else here has combined them in the past? Civilization Forge generally plays well with other mods, but some aspects do cause problems. Mostly when trying to merge together changes to the dwarven civ entity.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Jeoshua on May 22, 2012, 12:20:05 am

I combined older versions of Genesis, Civ Forge, and LFR into one master mod.

Haven't done it with the current versions, but it wasn't terribly hard and there were only a few doubled creature names.  Most everything in those mods is very modular, and WinMerge did a very nice job of letting me merge the changes to the Entities easily.

So yeah it can be done, and nothing will really "break", but there is abit of love that needs to be performed on the files that are changed in both mods.

Biggest trouble spots:
entity_default.txt
creature_standard.txt
item_weapons.txt

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Anathema on May 22, 2012, 07:28:34 pm

DF 34.10 with Mayday graphics and Civilization Forge (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) posted to DFFD.

Not thoroughly tested but it seems good, let me know about any bugs.

Edit: And a slightly newer version of 34.10 has been posted as of now (Late 5/22). I reverted the open air/chasm tiles to how they looked in the old version - missed that in the first pass - if you prefer Mayday's new version it's included as an alternate tileset ("maydaynew").

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Wannabehero on May 30, 2012, 04:44:23 pm

Geez Meph, I wish I had known about this hugemongous mod earlier.  Looking through your changes and modifications, a great many of them are things I modded for myself in my personal games because they bugged me (casting anvils, proper alloying ratios, greater selection of items, more bars from ores, ect.)

Then there are all the nice little things on top of all that stuff!  This is a really great package dude, thanks for it!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on May 30, 2012, 05:11:36 pm

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Anathema on June 05, 2012, 03:28:57 am

DF 34.11 with Mayday graphics and Civilization Forge (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) posted to DFFD.

Many thanks to Doren for his critter graphics pack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110591.0), I'm now using it to supplement Mayday (it's included in the latest Mayday+Civforge pack linked above). Many, possibly most, of the random new critters and animalmen recently added to DF should have graphics now.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on June 05, 2012, 10:26:03 am

Quote from: Anathema on June 05, 2012, 03:28:57 am

DF 34.11 with Mayday graphics and Civilization Forge (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3800) posted to DFFD.

Many thanks to Doren for his critter graphics pack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110591.0), I'm now using it to supplement Mayday (it's included in the latest Mayday+Civforge pack linked above). Many, possibly most, of the random new critters and animalmen recently added to DF should have graphics now.

Thanks, Anathema!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Shiramizu on June 14, 2012, 04:11:20 pm

Great mod. I really enjoy having a dozen races to trade (or wage war :P) with.
A small question. You mention in the readme how each new metal is for making weapons/armor, but I would like to know which of them if any are magma-safe.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on June 14, 2012, 04:46:59 pm

I'm pretty sure all of the new metals are magma safe.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Putnam on June 14, 2012, 05:33:58 pm

Ah, I remember this was the first mod I ever used~

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Tierre on June 15, 2012, 04:21:31 am

I still use it in all my games:) I love xelics and other races from here. Also i really like alchemy and crystal metals. Though i had to change rock crystal occurance - it was waaaay too high.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on July 27, 2012, 11:53:22 am

Started tinkering around with the mod again. Inspired by something CaptainArchmage did for a succession game I put in the ability to turn alchemical stones to block into the Alchemist's lab. Mostly so they'll show up as Economic stones again.

I've also taken Whips and Scourges out of every civilization's weapon list. They're just too broken. But I added in the ability to make Leather Whips/Scourges for most civs in the craft workshop, so you should be able to have your captain of the guard walk around whipping people if you want. So that might be fun. Still needs more testing.

Next version will also see the return of the Primitive Civs as an optional set of races. I miss having Snakemen around in my worlds.

After that, I'm finally going to start mucking with the various special syndromes and whatnot. Magic potions shall be experimented with!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 27, 2012, 12:08:32 pm

Yay! It's nice to see another mod raise up and come back to life :P

Altho it's more of already raised, just needed a few extra steps ;)

Creepy thing I think both our mods are quite simliar. When I have time I'm for sure going to play this.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Kon on July 27, 2012, 01:27:19 pm

Looking forward to new version of Civ Forge. Currently in year 2 of a new fortress using latest Genesis mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2012, 01:10:02 pm

Been slowly working on this. I think I have the primitive civs working properly again, we'll see how that goes with my current test fort.

Also added in Arbalests, as a heavy two-handed crossbow. Uses heavier ammo than a regular crossbow, so they're good against heavily armored foes. No shields, though, so you'll have to be careful about enemy archers.

Next up is some advanced alchemy work.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Cal on October 09, 2012, 07:31:13 pm

Just wanted to note something. I grabbed the 34.11 version (thank you both, Mephansteras and Anathema, still my favourite mod) and was getting a crash during worldgen when it was progressing the years. What do you call that stage anyway?

I got no crash dump or error log about it so I tinkered with some things and nothing seemed to work until I changed number of civs to 40 from 12. Possibility that too few civilizations with so many to choose from caused it?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on October 09, 2012, 07:54:58 pm

Maybe. I'd have to try genning with a small number of civs to see if it causes problems.

Thanks for the Report.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: CaptainArchmage on October 10, 2012, 03:21:16 pm

If development is continuing, I'd like to point out the language files are missing some of the new words. I'd also like the, *ahem* words removed in DF2012 to remain in the mod if possible please  :D.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on October 10, 2012, 05:06:45 pm

Yeah, I need to revamp the language files at some point.

Development is...sluggish. Been testing things off and on, but I've been busy and keep being distracted by shiny new games.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Beenoc on November 10, 2012, 04:55:28 pm

What is the purpose of "grime"? I've been training my dwarves at a bunch of pells and now my food stockpile is full of the stuff.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2012, 10:17:03 pm

Quote from: Beenoc on November 10, 2012, 04:55:28 pm

What is the purpose of "grime"? I've been training my dwarves at a bunch of pells and now my food stockpile is full of the stuff.

Reactions have to produce something. So pells produce 'grime'. Just put a food stockpile just for it next to the pells/quintain and disallow containers. Your dwarves will put it there and then clean it up later.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Beenoc on November 11, 2012, 08:15:15 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on November 10, 2012, 10:17:03 pm

Quote from: Beenoc on November 10, 2012, 04:55:28 pm

What is the purpose of "grime"? I've been training my dwarves at a bunch of pells and now my food stockpile is full of the stuff.

Reactions have to produce something. So pells produce 'grime'. Just put a food stockpile just for it next to the pells/quintain and disallow containers. Your dwarves will put it there and then clean it up later.

Ah, ok. I was going to say you could make it useful, then I saw that even with all my dwarves cleaning it up as fast as they could, from 5 pells and a quintain, I had over 900 grime at any given time. That would be a little OP XD

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Deon on November 11, 2012, 09:47:28 am

You could make grime to evaporate at room temperature.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Beenoc on November 11, 2012, 12:09:37 pm

On another note, both strange moods I've gotten have been shields made from the remains of my fallen enemies. âst Sut, The Furs of Bleeding, a chaos dwarf bone tower shield, and Fikukzamoth, Fieldvenom, a violet xelic chitin kite shield. This is win.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on November 11, 2012, 06:17:12 pm

Quote from: Deon on November 11, 2012, 09:47:28 am

You could make grime to evaporate at room temperature.

Huh. Now why didn't I think of that?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Protesilaus on November 15, 2012, 08:35:58 pm

Would setting the chance of creating grime to 0 prevent my dwarves from gaining the skill when using the machine?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2012, 08:44:11 pm

Quote from: Protesilaus on November 15, 2012, 08:35:58 pm

Would setting the chance of creating grime to 0 prevent my dwarves from gaining the skill when using the machine?

Making the grime is what gives the skill.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Zucchini on November 15, 2012, 09:28:54 pm

Would the grime-that-evaporates make sense renamed sweat?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2012, 09:30:20 pm

It did with Dwarf Chocolate.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on December 27, 2012, 10:25:12 am

Meph:
Have you considered using either Modest Mod or Accelerated Mod as a basis for a v34.11 version (I believe your mod still doesn't have minecarts :( )

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on December 27, 2012, 12:51:10 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on December 27, 2012, 10:25:12 am

Meph:
Have you considered using either Modest Mod or Accelerated Mod as a basis for a v34.11 version (I believe your mod still doesn't have minecarts :( )

Huh? Minecarts work just fine. Nothing in my mod touches them, but I'm not aware of any issues with them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on December 27, 2012, 01:20:33 pm

my bad. i thought minecarts were not working

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on April 09, 2013, 08:40:20 pm

since it's been a while, have you considered using accelerated mod ([url+http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117954.msg3963237#msg3963237]and jimmy's fixes on the accelerated mod thread[/url]) to increase the fps of your mod?

Honestly, I love your mod.  I don't care for the extra learning curve of masterwork, I added some stuff into vanilla that I'd rather add into yours, but Meph (mw) brough some fps increases into the game that might be of use.

By the way, there's a lack of leather gloves as well as some yarn bugs (as detailed in my mod (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7351)) that could be incorporated.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Major Monocle on April 19, 2013, 02:13:58 pm

*raises hand tentatively* is this for adv. mode too?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on April 19, 2013, 02:28:13 pm

Most of the changes effect Adventure Mode as well as Fortress Mode, but it hasn't been specifically tailored for Adventure mode in any way.

We'll see, I may do more with it after the next release and non-human sites actually get to show up again.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on April 21, 2013, 09:22:44 pm

I did it.

I wanted to redo the merge of accelerated mod and civilization forge from scratch WITHOUT mod manager since it screwed up a bunch of stuff...

so here it is, hopefully you like meph

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7595

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Dakkan on April 24, 2013, 12:17:17 pm

This mod is great. I'm bad on a DF kick again, and as usual I'm turning to your mod to spice up the world a bit! But I do have a question. I've been piddling more with the books and library this time around and built the Hall of Knowledge, but am actually unsure what it does. I'm making candles and having my Strand extractor (Novice) study there, but nothing appears to be happening. His skill is still marked rusty as well, so I've crossed that off the list of possibilities as well.

Some day, when DF is more liquid friendly... my moat will be mercury. Thank you for such an opportunity.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on April 24, 2013, 12:40:31 pm

Hmm...his skill should be going up. I've tested it plenty of times with other skills (especially the medical skills), so it should work ok. I'll have to check the strand extraction bit to make sure that's effecting the right skill.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on April 24, 2013, 06:38:43 pm

I don't know if this is an issue with your version, but as pointed out here

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100707.msg4201510#msg4201510

coif's can be made out of non armor type clothing without the [armor level:x] token.  (at least in my mod, and I didn't have items_hard specified_

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Dakkan on April 26, 2013, 11:22:55 am

Well I've tested a few more things. I've tried training Siege operator, and then surgery, since you said that was thoroughly tested. None of these caused experience to go up in the subject. I also tried building the individual medical library and training there.

I feel like I need to also include that this was a fresh install of DF with Civ Forge installed. Nuffin' fancy done at all.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on April 26, 2013, 11:51:52 am

Interesting. I'll have to check it out. I know it was working fine before...


I've seen the issue of coif's before. Haven't found a way to fix it, so I think it's probably an odd DF bug for world-gen created items.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on April 26, 2013, 12:10:37 pm

the coif's were fixed by giving them an armorlevel:2

Title: Growth Durations over 1008
Post by: Northstar1989 on August 17, 2013, 03:02:11 am

So, I've been playing this mod a good bit to add a little variety to my DF games...  After a tundra fortress that failed miserably due to Sand Raider ambusher spam (I was getting as many as 80-100 Sand Raiders visible on my map at a time!  I couldn't leave the fort, and eventually some of their bowmen caught a half-dozen of my dwarves in a fortress courtyard open from above with their bows- setting off a tantrum spiral...), I started another fortress on a Tundra island further to the south of the map (a "Freezing" biome through and through- but no Sand Raiders!  they shouldn't be able to survive in Tundras anyways...)  But I was having trouble farming the Tundra crops- Rime/Lingon/Crowberries.


Rime Berries, Crowberries, and Lingon Berries were all present on my map as natural "shrubs"- so I collected a number of the plants, and their seeds after brewing/eating raw the plants...

The first problem I noticed was that the seeds didn't appear in the Kitchen Menu (through Z), so I couldn't cook them if I wanted.  No big deal, I was going to try to farm them anyways...

However when I started some farming plots, channeled a Z-level down from the surface in some covered courtyards, I ran into some serious issues farming the plants.  They would select just fine to plant, and my dwarves would even go and plant the seeds (I confirmed through 'T' that the seeds were actually planted) but the crops wouldn't seem to grow!  So I started browsing the raws a bit... (raws for the CF plants can be found in "plant_cf" in the raws/objects folder)


Turns out that a major error was made in coding these plants (if they were meant to be farmable- if not they probably shouldn't have dropped uncookable seeds when eaten/brewed...)  Their growth duration was set to 1200!  That might not seem like a big deal- but a full season in Dwarf Fortress, from start to finish, is exactly 1008 growth duration 'units'  (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Time#Plant_growth). And these plants only grow for one season each (Spring for Crowberries, Summer for Lingon Berries, and Autumn for Rime Berries)!

That means that the plants can never be farmed on Farm Plots!  Instead of growing to maturity and being harvested at the end of each growth period, they get planted, at best, at the very beginning of the season, and then grow to close to full maturity before the season changes and they completely disappear- leaving no seeds or crops behind!  This obviously is a balance issue, but it's not the only one- several other crops also had growth durations longer than a season.  Most of the normal berries (blue/black/raspberries) also had growth durations of 1200 and only grew in one season, and sugar canes had a growth duration of 2000 and only grow in the Spring!  Other crops with impossible [growdur]'s included Cinnamon and Black Pepper.


Obviously, this makes farming most, if not all, of the new above ground plants impossible- as most of them have growth durations longer than the full season they grow in!  Obviously, these values need to be tweaked so it's at least possible to grow them to maturity.  A good rule of thumb would probably be no growth durations longer than about 800- to give Dwarves enough time to plant a field at beginning of the season.  Most 'vanilla' crops only have [Growdur] of between 300 and 600.  So 1200 is a really long [GrowDur], and 2000 is frankly, insane.  Without the ability to grow in multiple seasons and some way of cross-seasonal farming (read: built-in modding in the CivForge mod to allow growth across seasons- so it's not necessary to install separate, additional mods just to get CF farming to work properly); or [Growdur] values a good bit under 1008, these crops will NEVER be farmable.  So, either they should be tweaked; or they shouldn't drop seeds- or at least the seeds should be cookable, and the Mod description should warn that these crops are un-farmable...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 17, 2013, 03:05:05 pm

Hmm...I think there was a change with plants at some point. Those growth durations were supposed to make the plants grow for an extended period of time, and I know that it worked properly at one point.

Looks like they'll have to be updated.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Meph on August 17, 2013, 11:20:15 pm

I actually use 4 active seasons and 4000 growdur for all underground crops (all plants can be planted and grow all year, but take one year), and 3 active seasons and 1000 growdur for all aboveground crops (all plants can be planted spring/summer, and harvested summer/autumn. Anything planted in autumn dies before it can be harvested, and nothing can be planted in winter.)

People think that the 4000 growdur is a bit much, but the aboveground system seems to be taken well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Northstar1989 on August 18, 2013, 05:38:00 am

Quote from: Meph on August 17, 2013, 11:20:15 pm

I actually use 4 active seasons and 4000 growdur for all underground crops (all plants can be planted and grow all year, but take one year), and 3 active seasons and 1000 growdur for all aboveground crops (all plants can be planted spring/summer, and harvested summer/autumn. Anything planted in autumn dies before it can be harvested, and nothing can be planted in winter.)

People think that the 4000 growdur is a bit much, but the aboveground system seems to be taken well.

I'm getting these [Growdur] values directly from the raws- so I'm not quite sure what you are talking about.  Most of the new aboveground crops have values of 1200 or 2000- but many grow for one season only.  I tried farming the Crowberries/Lingon Berries/Rime Berries for several game years before giving up- and as stated, the planted seeds simply disappeared at the end of each season.  That might have been because I had the subsequent crop planted in the next season for the case of the Crowberries and Lingon Berries- but since nothing grows in the Winter in Tundra Biomes, I had nothing planted for Winter and the planted Rime Berry Seeds (only plantable in Autumn) still disappeared when the first day of Winter rolled around...


EDIT:  Meph, I just realized you're referring to the Masterwork Modpack.  I'm not running that.  I found it interesting, and almost installed it instead of just Civ Forge alone- but then I looked at the changelogs and as far as I could figure out from them, you removed a number of Civ Forge civilizations- such as the High Elves (personally, my favorite Civ Forge race- I'm a huge Tolkien fan, and they're modeled after Tolkien's elves.  Though, a note to Mephansteras- they should probably have different racial Personality averages than standard elves- higher patience, discipline, and altruism for a start.  If they're truly meant to represent more Tolkien-like elves, they should also have a human or larger body size, rather than one equal to Dwarves, and tend towards greater height rather than girth.  As it stands, they're just renamed standard/primitive elves with some new materials they can work and different ethics- which doesn't capture any of the critical personality or physical differences.)

Anyways, I like the idea of many of the Masterwork features- especially the simplification of leather (though I do think there *should* be a number of different types, with different thicknesses/properties- certainly not the obscene practice of every species having its own leather, which becomes nearly unmanageable very quickly...)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Northstar1989 on August 18, 2013, 06:11:40 am

Replies broken to two posts due to length (and different subjects)

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 17, 2013, 03:05:05 pm

Hmm...I think there was a change with plants at some point. Those growth durations were supposed to make the plants grow for an extended period of time, and I know that it worked properly at one point.

Looks like they'll have to be updated.

The problem might lie in a change to how season changes were handled.  I think Dwarf Fortress must now check each season if the currently planted seeds are able to grow in the next season, and clear them if they aren't...  It would appear that the underground crops grow fine across seasons, as they *can* grow in all four seasons; but the surface crops- at least the Tundra ones I'm talking about- are limited to just one season, and so clear automatically at the end of it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the way Meph was saying Masterwork handles Growth Durations longer than one season (1008 [Growdur] 'units') is by having the crops plantable for all seasons but Winter.  You just have to know (or learn by trial-and-error) that you shouldn't actually activate planting for Autumn- because it will just waste the seeds.

So, if you want to leave Rime Berries' [Growdur] at 1200, for instance, then you need to make them a [Autumn]/[Winter] crop rather than just an [Autumn] crop.  That way, if a player plants them in Autumn they'll have enough time to grow.  If he/she plants them in Winter, on the other hand...  he/she will just end up wasting some very rare/valuable seeds.

I don't know how you would make the seeds register with the Kitchen menu, but while you're updating/fixing the crops with [Growdur] values longer than their maximum potential growth period, you might also want to see if you can't get them to register with the Kitchen menu so they can be cooked and their quantities assessed in the same screen as other foodstuffs like Meat, Milk, and Cheese. (personally, I find assessing the ratios between different ingredient types is *VERY* important- it gives me an idea of, say, how long my kitchens can make Lavish Meals on /repeat before they run out of solid ingredients and have nothing but Milk and Syrup left...)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 18, 2013, 10:40:57 am

Yeah, I think you're correct on the change. I'll have to decide how I want those crops to be handled. And, yes, the seeds should be cookable, so I'll make sure that goes in as well.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Meph on August 19, 2013, 01:58:27 pm

@Northstar1989 & Mephansteras: I was just offering the information about my "solution" for the growdurations. I didnt mean that it should be taken or is in CivForge, it was just that Mephansteras said: "I probably should rebalance this", so I wanted to show a possible balancing idea.

About removing civs: MasterworkDF has nothing to do with CivForge, I did not add or remove anything. ;)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 19, 2013, 02:02:40 pm

I knew what you meant, Meph. I appreciate the information. :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: L0master on August 20, 2013, 12:50:57 am

Could someone please direct me to the latest mayday-compatible CivForge release? The opening post seems to be outdated just as dffd.wimbli seems as well. CivForge was my my mod of choice when i last played DF more than a year ago. A changelog would also be much appreciated. Thanks.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2013, 08:56:49 am

The Change List in the bottom of the OP is up to date.

Not sure about a mayday-compatible release. I don't really manage any tileset versions.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: L0master on August 20, 2013, 11:14:17 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 20, 2013, 08:56:49 am

The Change List in the bottom of the OP is up to date.

Not sure about a mayday-compatible release. I don't really manage any tileset versions.

So no big changes since summer 2012 then? Great, then i'll be playing pretty much the same DF i enjoyed a year ago.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2013, 11:16:28 am

Yeah, haven't gotten much modding done in the last year or so. My creative energies have been redirected into making boardgames.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: RoguelikesESP on August 20, 2013, 02:12:09 pm

*o*U!!!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 20, 2013, 02:21:17 pm

Quote from: RoguelikesESP on August 20, 2013, 02:12:09 pm

*o*U!!!

I'm...not really sure what you're trying to say.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Northstar1989 on August 27, 2013, 03:37:04 am

Quote from: Meph on August 19, 2013, 01:58:27 pm

@Northstar1989 & Mephansteras: I was just offering the information about my "solution" for the growdurations. I didnt mean that it should be taken or is in CivForge, it was just that Mephansteras said: "I probably should rebalance this", so I wanted to show a possible balancing idea.

About removing civs: MasterworkDF has nothing to do with CivForge, I did not add or remove anything. ;)

I apparently got a little confused there- I was apparently mixing you up with the maintainer of a combined Modpack including both Masterwork and CivForge (and "Accelerated Mod"), though you're the author of plain Masterwork Mod (hence why I call it the "Masterwork Modpack" instead of the "Masterwork Mod"), and the Modpack is someone entirely different.  Sorry about that- yeah, Masterwork *Mod* doesn't have to do with CivForge...  Would be nice if there was a better merger modpack for combining the two though (the combined modpack removes a number of CivForge civs and features, despite the author claiming in the initial summary it's "still the same Civforge" or some such...)

Sorry about that.   :-[

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Putnam on August 27, 2013, 12:08:28 pm

Masterwork is a modpack, which probably adds to the confusion. You're looking for Thistleknot, I think.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Northstar1989 on August 29, 2013, 01:49:02 am

Quote from: Putnam on August 27, 2013, 12:08:28 pm

Masterwork is a modpack, which probably adds to the confusion. You're looking for Thistleknot, I think.

Exactly.  I didn't remember who made which one, and I had just been looking at the Masterwork Modpack before posting here, which had led to the confusion on my part..


Anyways, Meph (the other Meph- Civforge maker)- I was wondering when we might see an updated version of CivForge posted with the changes to the plant growth times or seasons and see cookability (forgive me if it's already included in the latest version posted here somehow).  Also, I noticed a few other things that might need tweaking, going through the Raws, and from gameplay:

- Considering the number of new Tundra creatures added, you might want to tweak (increase) the population sizes of a few of the Vanilla creatures so they still show up in Tundra Biomes reasonably often.  Particularly, the populations for Polar Bears are far too small- only 2-3 per Biome/Region (I'm not sure which the population size refers to- but either way it made collecting a breeding pair extremely difficult *without* all the new creatures- and near-impossible with them).  With all the new creatures added, and their much larger population sizes (relatively speaking) you almost never see Polar Bears because of all the Wooly Rhinoceros herds roaming the Tundra and whatnot...

- The material values for Ironhide Centipede Chitin need a tiny bit of tweaking.  They don't seem to be working properly, and I find I can easily buy it from the Dwarven Caravan for usually about the same price as most other types of leather (the raws seem to indicate it should cost somewhere between 5 and 10 times as much as standard leather- I saw multiple value multipliers listed, and I'm not sure which was meant to apply).  IT currnetly costs less than jaguar leather, for instance.  I say this needs fixing even though I rather enjoy my bins upon bins full of cheap uber-leather.  :D

- Manuscript Crates seem to be usable as blocks for most purposes.  I'm not sure if this was intended, but I can build Roads, Bridges, Walls, and even Wells from what should be nothing more than a pile of paper or parchment!  Then again, considering how Ash and Soap bars can both be used for all these same purposes as well, maybe it really isn't so out-of-the-ordinary for Dwarf Fortress...

- Finally, there doesn't seem to be any way to restrict the new Alchemical economic stones from being used to make pots, grates, doors, and whatever else I choose to make out of stone...  I was examining the changelogs, and it seems like in a previous version you had it working correctly so that these stones would show up in the Economic Stones screen, but now, the only way I seem to have to stop all my Stibnite and Saltpeter from being used to make common pots and doors instead of being reserved for their intended Alchemical purposes, is to just order/make more of them!  That's rather annoying when I end up with 50 +Saltpeter Doors+ instead of having Saltpeter reserves for my budding Mithril production industry!  It is even more annoying when I chose to build my fortress in a Tundra, and have to IMPORT all my Saltpeter, as I have no readily available sources of Saltpeter- it is neither found locally in the stone layers, nor does the biome support any surface trees which I could use to fuel Saltpeter Beds!!!

(Thankfully, the new Ore-stones work properly with the Economic Stones screen...  At least Dwarves don't make 42 *Large Truesilver Pots* out of all my Truesilver ore...)

EDIT:  If they did, at least it would make my Truesilver-liking Weaponsmith very, very happy...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on August 29, 2013, 01:22:17 pm

Meant to make those changes over the last weekend, but I've been sick. Hoping I'll get a chance sometime soon to put them in.

Thanks for the feedback on the other bugs. I'll add those to my list of things to look at.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Northstar1989 on September 24, 2013, 05:18:40 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on August 29, 2013, 01:22:17 pm

Meant to make those changes over the last weekend, but I've been sick. Hoping I'll get a chance sometime soon to put them in.

Thanks for the feedback on the other bugs. I'll add those to my list of things to look at.

I hope it wouldn't be inappropriate to give a little *poke* on this?

I haven't heard anything- did you end up implementing the bug fixes and fixing the plant growth times (and seed cookability) yet?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on September 24, 2013, 06:59:50 pm

*sigh* No. I keep getting my programming times pre-empted by various things.

But! This Friday is getting blocked out as a project night, so I'm going to use this as my project for the evening.

So I'm setting myself a deadline to get these fixes in place and out Friday night.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on October 01, 2013, 10:53:28 pm

Update! I've made a bunch of the changes, currently testing everything out. Still have a few bugs left to squash, but I'm making progress.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Splint on October 04, 2013, 11:11:54 am

I'm sure this will be good. I should try another community fort with this mod...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on October 16, 2013, 07:38:01 pm

what's going on with this mod?  I see some update posts on oct 1...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Splint on October 16, 2013, 07:42:59 pm

He said he's ironing out the bugs so it'll probably be a bit before we see a fresh release.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on October 16, 2013, 10:53:06 pm

Yeah, working on stuff. Got tomorrow night free, so I'm planning on doing more work on it then.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on October 17, 2013, 11:15:55 pm

I hope you figure out a way to fix grime from quintains... it can't be set to evaporate at 0, because it will destroy the quintain, so as is, it just sits in stockpiles to be cleaned up.

I do see one possible solution, quantum stockpiling it with minecarts

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Splint on October 17, 2013, 11:17:08 pm

Periodic reconstruction allows for it to be simply cleaned up by an idle worker. I do agree it's a bit of a problem though otherwise.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on October 18, 2013, 12:22:08 am

Quote from: Splint on October 17, 2013, 11:17:08 pm

Periodic reconstruction allows for it to be simply cleaned up by an idle worker. I do agree it's a bit of a problem though otherwise.

I stick a food stockpile set only for grime nearby. The dwarves will clean it off, stockpile it, and then someone comes along and cleans it up.

I'll play with it a bit, though, see if I can up with a better solution, though.

In general, testing is going well. No issues so far, but I need to get my current fort a little further along so I can test a few of the specific bugs and the winter plants.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Splint on October 18, 2013, 12:32:47 am

Could have a generic dust produced instead. Wouldn't that just go "poof" into the air while still having the desired affect?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: thistleknot on October 18, 2013, 07:27:57 pm

i really hope you incorporate fps improvements with standardized materials.  So so so hope.  It's like a new defacto standard in my opinion.  It doesn't have to be done on all creatures, but the ones where it doesn't matter what type of sinew or fat or pus it needs, you can make a standard animal creature (meph's invention btw) and point to this creature for all that stuff, but to be honest, it creates some headaches,  I had some with chitin and meat...

but you can compare with my civmwforge mod or one of it's predecessor's to get an idea on what was changed...

Update:
Apparently rubble 2.0 has this as an "add-on"

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128013.0

have fun trying to figure out the instructions

update:
yeah, I just did my creatures to standard materials... didn't take too long.

On grime:
Is it possible to make grime rot?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.70
Post by: Mephansteras on November 01, 2013, 09:14:33 pm

Version 2.8 is up! (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2277)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Putnam on November 01, 2013, 09:17:23 pm

Then update your topic name >:I

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on November 01, 2013, 09:21:12 pm

Knew I was forgetting something...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Putnam on November 01, 2013, 10:02:08 pm

Your sig too :P

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on November 02, 2013, 01:10:41 am

Awesome. Now I can regen the world for Carrayscar! Was holding off on that since you said a new version was coming out soon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: kilakan on November 02, 2013, 08:39:04 pm

downloaded and starting playing, pretty awesome so far except.... my plumphelmets and other plants never actually grow up for some reason?  Also what's the metalworking manuscript?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on November 02, 2013, 09:05:21 pm

Quote from: kilakan on November 02, 2013, 08:39:04 pm

downloaded and starting playing, pretty awesome so far except.... my plumphelmets and other plants never actually grow up for some reason?  Also what's the metalworking manuscript?

That's odd...farming was working fine for me.

Manuscripts are used to build libraries. Manuscript crates need to be unpacked at a library workbench first.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on November 03, 2013, 11:43:45 am

Hey Meph...

I standardized the creatures for you (and that was it, no other shenanigans)

It has the added consequence of changing the pricing on leather/chitin...

But other than that, it should give great fps improvement.

Let me know what you think.

One could always change the creature_mat:animal:leather to local_creature_mat:leather, and I think that would retain value for that specific material.

derp

http://dffd.wimbli.com/category.php?id=12

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on November 03, 2013, 12:50:08 pm

Yeah, I'll probably leave the leather piece alone, since I did a bunch of stuff to differentiate some of the leathers. Stuff like nervous tissue and cartilage can all be the same, though, since those don't really matter.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on November 03, 2013, 08:47:13 pm

apparently I posted this here and not in a message...

but I was testing out some raw changes after some tests comparing various types of chitin and leather armors...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

well I applied that to cave crab and ironhide centipede

didn't really do what I had hoped

19:25

ironhide vs cave crab

(from 44 vs 44)

further update:
using dfhack's gui/gm-editor, I looked at the values in memory for both antman chitin vs ironhide chitin armor, as well as dog leather vs cow leather armor

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

dfhack.matinfo.decode(dfhack.gui.getSelectedItem()).material.strength

ironhide chitin armor

absorption: 100

bending: 60000
Shear: 115000
torsion: 60000
impact: 100000
tensile: 60000
compressive: 100000

fracture: 65000
shear: 130000
torsion: 65000
impact: 100000
tensile: 65000
compressive: 100000

strain_at_yield
bending: 100
shear: 100
torsion: 100
impact: 100
tensile: 100
compressive: 100

max_edge: 5000

antman chitin

absorption: 100

bending: 60000
Shear: 115000
torsion: 60000
impact: 100000
tensile: 60000
compressive: 100000

fracture: 65000
shear: 130000
torsion: 65000
impact: 100000
tensile: 65000
compressive: 100000

strain_at_yield
bending: 100
shear: 100
torsion: 100
impact: 100
tensile: 100
compressive: 100

max_edge: 5000

dog leather armor

absorption: 40

yield

bending: 10000
shear: 25000
torsion: 10000
impact: 10000
tensile: 10000
compressive: 10000

fracture
bending: 10000
shear: 25000
torsion: 10000
impact: 10000
tensile: 10000
compressive: 10000

strain_at_yield

bending: 50000
shear: 50000
torsion: 50000
impact: 50000
tensile: 50000
compressive: 50000

max_edge: 0

cow leather armor

absorption: 40

yield

bending: 10000
shear: 25000
torsion: 10000
impact: 10000
tensile: 10000
compressive: 10000

fracture
bending: 10000
shear: 25000
torsion: 10000
impact: 10000
tensile: 10000
compressive: 10000

strain_at_yield

bending: 50000
shear: 50000
torsion: 50000
impact: 50000
tensile: 50000
compressive: 50000

max_edge: 0

to do so

you highlight said armor with "k"
and then in dfhack (thanks to Putnam for the tip)

gui/gm-editor dfhack.matinfo.decode(dfhack.gui.getSelectedItem()).material.strength

In conclusion: I think it's safe to say that varying types of leather or chitin equal the same defensive value based on their material_template

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2013, 11:51:00 am

Huh, well, good to know. Guess my initial tests were a fluke. I'll have to go through and add in some tougher material templates, then.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on November 04, 2013, 10:22:05 pm

trying to use dfmm with your mod

needs
[OBJECT:CREATURE] for your creature_ravenman_cf.txt

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Northstar1989 on June 26, 2014, 12:31:45 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on November 04, 2013, 11:51:00 am

Huh, well, good to know. Guess my initial tests were a fluke. I'll have to go through and add in some tougher material templates, then.

Any news on this?  It's been a while since you said you'd fix that...

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Northstar1989 on June 26, 2014, 12:43:38 am

Quote from: thistleknot on November 03, 2013, 11:43:45 am

Hey Meph...

I standardized the creatures for you (and that was it, no other shenanigans)

It has the added consequence of changing the pricing on leather/chitin...

But other than that, it should give great fps improvement.

Let me know what you think.

One could always change the creature_mat:animal:leather to local_creature_mat:leather, and I think that would retain value for that specific material.

derp

http://dffd.wimbli.com/category.php?id=12

Ahhh, Thistleknot, the man himself...

I appreciate your working on helping to improve the FPS for CivForge.  I also appreciate some of the ideas (like standardized leather) you implemented in your Masterwork/Civforge integration.

And, Meph, it would be easy enough to make all leather generic for CivForge in the way Masterwork does it, and just have a couple special categories for the new unique leathers, distinct from the generics.  I hope you'll consider doing this.


But Thistleknot, was it really necessary to remove the High Elves in your integration modpack?  If you don't think they're distinct enough from the other elves, why don't you try modding the version of CivForge used in your modpack (with permission, of course) to have High Elves that are more authentic to the ones in Tolkien?

Specifically, some of the changes I suggested before- greater patience, height (they are *taller* than humans in Tolkien, certainly not shorter like the standard Dwarf Fortress elves- which more closely resemble "Wood Elves"), and traits related to empathy/compassion/altruism.  The High Elves of Tolkien could be selfish at times, but tended to be a lot more altruistic than humans on average- which form the baseline for all traits in Dwarf Fortress (even dwarves are based off human standards, rather than the other way around).


Regards,
Northstar

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Putnam on June 26, 2014, 09:48:20 am

...could you not call Mephansteras "Meph" when you're talking about Masterwork in the same sentence? It's confusing as hell >_>

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on June 26, 2014, 11:31:16 am

Sorry, haven't done anything with DF in a while. I've been working on other projects and just sort of waiting for the new version. I'll make sure it's working correctly in the new version, though.

Not sure what I'll end up doing with the variety of leathers yet. Personally, I don't mind having a ton of different types, but we'll see how it goes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on July 09, 2014, 02:46:00 pm

Been busy plugging away at things and converting files over to 40.01. It'll be a while before I have a release out, but I figured I'd let people know that I'm working on it.

I think the plants are going to be the biggest time sink. I need to decide what I want to do with the new system and see if there are versions of some of my plants already in that I need to tweak to make work with things like the Library. But we'll see how it goes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Seagoon on July 13, 2014, 12:08:53 pm

looking forward to it :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on July 17, 2014, 12:43:02 pm

Things are progressing nicely. I have most of the files converted over and things are more or less functional now. Haven't tested the various primitive civs yet, but they should work ok when I test them tonight.

Minor change, due to something about the new Dark Fortresses the goblins make they have to have variable site positions or the game crashes at world gen. So I think I'll switch Violet Xelics over to having them and the Hobgoblins over to Cities. I don't care about Bugbears or Violet Xelics losing their positions, but the Hobgoblins are very orderly and I like the custom positions I made up for them.

Once I have all that working, it'll be time to get town to testing the details and modding in some of the various game fixes people have found (like reducing animal man populations). Right now I have no idea if most of the reactions actually still work, especially the library based stuff since those got effected by the various plant changes. I also need to do more checks into my plants to make sure they work correctly. Right now all I can say is they don't throw errors in the log.

After that I'll need to tackle things like the leathers not keeping the properties of the living creature, and probably streamlining at least some of the stuff down. Might see about having a streamlined/regular version of the animals so people can use whichever they like.

How soon do you guys want to get your hands on a test version?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Knight Otu on July 17, 2014, 12:53:16 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 17, 2014, 12:43:02 pm

Minor change, due to something about the new Dark Fortresses the goblins make they have to have variable site positions or the game crashes at world gen. So I think I'll switch Violet Xelics over to having them and the Hobgoblins over to Cities. I don't care about Bugbears or Violet Xelics losing their positions, but the Hobgoblins are very orderly and I like the custom positions I made up for them.

According to the bug tracker, the culprit seems to be having multiple positions with CHAT_WORTHY. According to my tests, that seems to be correct - removing chat_worthy from all but the highest position removes the crash. Probably not worth it for hobgoblins if they're anything like mine in terms of positions, still, but it may help with your other civs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on July 17, 2014, 12:58:50 pm

Quote from: Knight Otu on July 17, 2014, 12:53:16 pm

Quote from: Mephansteras on July 17, 2014, 12:43:02 pm

Minor change, due to something about the new Dark Fortresses the goblins make they have to have variable site positions or the game crashes at world gen. So I think I'll switch Violet Xelics over to having them and the Hobgoblins over to Cities. I don't care about Bugbears or Violet Xelics losing their positions, but the Hobgoblins are very orderly and I like the custom positions I made up for them.

According to the bug tracker, the culprit seems to be having multiple positions with CHAT_WORTHY. According to my tests, that seems to be correct - removing chat_worthy from all but the highest position removes the crash. Probably not worth it for hobgoblins if they're anything like mine in terms of positions, still, but it may help with your other civs.

Hmm. Good to know. Thanks!

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on July 18, 2014, 02:13:47 pm

Hmm, now I'm not so sure about that. I was looking at my bugbear civ and they only had a single CHAT_WORTHY position, the Chief. The only other position was for warriors. Might require some more testing.

I'm currently playing around with some Meat bearing plants for crops. Right now the various carnivorous civs (like Dyansauri) just have No Eat/Drink tags, which is silly. Farming meat plants is still silly, but slightly less silly.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on July 18, 2014, 02:17:17 pm

Slightly less silly indeed. Will we be facing off against the dyansauri and frost giants as constant enemies in the updated version of the mod?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on July 18, 2014, 02:26:45 pm

Quote from: Splint on July 18, 2014, 02:17:17 pm

Slightly less silly indeed. Will we be facing off against the dyansauri and frost giants as constant enemies in the updated version of the mod?

Probably not constant, no. Although I think warfare between them and dwarves is a bit more common now? Needs more testing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on July 19, 2014, 10:59:13 am

Quote from: Northstar1989 on June 26, 2014, 12:43:38 am

Quote from: thistleknot on November 03, 2013, 11:43:45 am

Hey Meph...

I standardized the creatures for you (and that was it, no other shenanigans)

It has the added consequence of changing the pricing on leather/chitin...

But other than that, it should give great fps improvement.

Let me know what you think.

One could always change the creature_mat:animal:leather to local_creature_mat:leather, and I think that would retain value for that specific material.

derp

http://dffd.wimbli.com/category.php?id=12

Ahhh, Thistleknot, the man himself...

I appreciate your working on helping to improve the FPS for CivForge.  I also appreciate some of the ideas (like standardized leather) you implemented in your Masterwork/Civforge integration.

And, Meph, it would be easy enough to make all leather generic for CivForge in the way Masterwork does it, and just have a couple special categories for the new unique leathers, distinct from the generics.  I hope you'll consider doing this.


But Thistleknot, was it really necessary to remove the High Elves in your integration modpack?  If you don't think they're distinct enough from the other elves, why don't you try modding the version of CivForge used in your modpack (with permission, of course) to have High Elves that are more authentic to the ones in Tolkien?

Specifically, some of the changes I suggested before- greater patience, height (they are *taller* than humans in Tolkien, certainly not shorter like the standard Dwarf Fortress elves- which more closely resemble "Wood Elves"), and traits related to empathy/compassion/altruism.  The High Elves of Tolkien could be selfish at times, but tended to be a lot more altruistic than humans on average- which form the baseline for all traits in Dwarf Fortress (even dwarves are based off human standards, rather than the other way around).


Regards,
Northstar

I removed elves in my mashed mod? I thought I kept all civforge creatures

BTW all those ideas are thanks to other modders. I just opted to mix them in w civforge

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on July 19, 2014, 11:19:23 am

I would just like it on record I approve of anything that improves FPS for this wonderful mod. Carryscar's been kinda having FPS issues, probably due in part to all the new stuff.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on July 19, 2014, 07:34:14 pm

looking back on these armor comments for leather, I realized that maybe... there are some raw options to set for material templates.

I noticed the materials I posted here

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31157.msg4738872#msg4738872

in the 2nd spoiler.

some of the #'s are different inbetween materials.

Even though... they don't have much difference in arena combat.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2014, 12:19:20 pm

Yeah, the whole leather issue is still on my list of things for this release.

Right now I've been going back and making sure that everything works as intended. Globs getting incremental amounts like bars is handy, since that'll make the Library stuff less clunky. Currently testing my new stuff for that, and when I'm done Studying from books should be much more reliable. Turns out the issue before was that dwarves wouldn't always grab two boxes of candles, but were somehow able to do the job anyway (and fail), so they'd basically just waste time. Other times they'd do things properly, so it took me a while to figure out what was going on. That'll be fixed.

My biggest issue at the moment is that the game is so much slower than it used to be. Back in .34 I'd have starting forts with over 100FPS easy. Now my starting forts have around 40FPS. It eats up a surprising amount of time just trying to test fairly simple things.


Oh, and I did an experiment with Dyansauri and meat plants. Turns out that meat plants do let them survive as carnivores from farming, which is cool. Sadly, they have drastically reduced numbers (2k vs 20k for other races) so it's not really viable right now. I think I'll just take out the Carnivore bit for now. But I have meat plants for Savage and Evil biomes now, so that's kinda fun.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 05, 2014, 12:22:33 pm

Of course the dyansauri strike me as having size advantage, thick hides and such, so against most "common rabble" they'd be up against I dunno if numbers would be nearly as much an issue for them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2014, 12:30:35 pm

Quote from: Splint on August 05, 2014, 12:22:33 pm

Of course the dyansauri strike me as having size advantage, thick hides and such, so against most "common rabble" they'd be up against I dunno if numbers would be nearly as much an issue for them.

True. I may do some more world gens to see how things go. But in the tests I did they ended up just kinda hanging out in a small area and not doing much. Pity I can't tell them to only use a specific set of crops. Hmm...but maybe if I gave them a broader biome selection in addition...that might work.

I'll play with it. I'd really like them to be carnivores.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 05, 2014, 02:05:48 pm

I never looked at their raws, but I'm assuming they're relegated to deserts and badlands and have to compete with the sand raiders and possibly jawas for that territory, so expanding that into any generally typically warm biome (jungles, savannas, deserts, swamps... what with them being a much scarier form of lizard men and all) would help them greatly while still being constrained to warmer climates; this has the side benefit of potentially putting them into conflict with the elves and xelics of both types more frequently, keeping their forces away from your lands.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 05, 2014, 02:16:36 pm

They're actually more competition with humans, having grasslands, savanna, shrublands, and forest as their main biomes. But expanding that out so that they're more global might help. Looking at the raws, they're already more inclusive than I thought.

We'll have to see what testing gets me.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2014, 03:13:34 pm

Things are moving along nicely. I have a few more tests to run for Alchemy and Libraries, but so far they are working as intended. My Armorer in my current test fort is not only a metal smith, she's a dabbling wordsmith :)

I have also decided what to do with leathers and whatnot. Using the More Leathers method to get somewhat appropriate amounts of leather from animals, combined with several levels of tough/thick hides, I should be able to give us a more reasonable selection. Cow leather will be better than, say, deer leather for armor, while Rhino Leather will be about as good as bronze armor. Creatures like the Ironhide Centipede should also work as intended. I may add in Furs while I'm at it.

I'm also going to do a modest bit of acceleration to make all non-useful animal materials generic (sinews, nerves, blood, stuff like that). There will probably be a few exceptions for special/sentient creatures (Dragon Blood could be useful for Alchemy somehow, for example, and we generally want to know about dwarf/goblin/elf blood), but we don't really care if there is cow blood or pig blood on the ground.

Dyansauri, sadly, do not seem viable as carnivores in your basic medium world. I'm going to test them some more with larger and high savagery worlds, but as-is they become more of a remnant race. I'll probably include the carnivore version + meat plants as an option, since having remnant/savage-lands only dinosaur people is kind of flavorful. But they won't be that way by default.

After that, I think we'll be about ready for a release. Lots to do, but I'm getting there.

Any other major requests from anyone?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 07, 2014, 03:31:14 pm

Maybe rename hand axe to hatchet or wood axe? I may just be spoiled by my incessant need to learn things but when I read hand axe I keep thinking of the prehistoric one which was just a lump of rock with a sharp end knapped on the bottom.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2014, 03:44:06 pm

Sure, that's an easy one :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 07, 2014, 03:51:05 pm

Heh, honestly it's something I normally do myself but I tend to forget sometimes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on August 07, 2014, 04:44:16 pm

all this sounds great btw.  I love the fact that your bringing in the simplified creature stuff.  If your curious how 34_11 phoebus accelerated mod did it from 34_11 phoebus, check it out here

https://github.com/thistleknot/BasedOnVanillaRaws/commit/992700e363a472d0988d8732448b67d4b057fbb0

you can do a search for raw/objects/ and sort through the relevant files.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2014, 04:46:59 pm

Yeah, I've been looking through a bunch of that. Seems pretty straight-forward.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Lord Shonus on August 07, 2014, 07:02:24 pm

Are my primitive weapons still included? Do they still work?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 07, 2014, 07:04:54 pm

If you're talking about stuff like the clubs and khopesh, yeah. Pretty sure a couple races field those.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 07, 2014, 07:23:02 pm

Quote from: Lord Shonus on August 07, 2014, 07:02:24 pm

Are my primitive weapons still included? Do they still work?

They are in, yeah. Haven't actually tested them in the new version, though. Guess I should do that.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 12, 2014, 01:28:59 pm

Progress has been a bit slow. I've been busy with other things and haven't had much of a chance to test stuff out lately. However, I do have all of the raw changes in place for the acceleration, so once that is tested we should be good to go there.

I'm giving myself a timeline to try and get at least an initial release out by this weekend.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Splint on August 12, 2014, 02:45:59 pm

Glad to see it's going good with the mod man.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 19, 2014, 08:11:53 pm

Well, unfortunately events have conspired against me. I lost some of my work to a crash, so I've had to redo that, and I've been busy dealing with other things and not able to play DF much lately to test the changes I've made.

Still, I'm determined to get more done and get a release out this week. May or may not have the leather changes in place, we'll see.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on August 19, 2014, 09:35:04 pm

github bro

github

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on August 23, 2014, 07:58:43 am

I could make you a v 40_09 that just brings in 40_09 changes. You'd have to update things like traits and whatnot but it would only take maybe 15 min w kdiff3 (I finally learned how to use it!) If that would help.

Here it is

by no way unofficial.

https://www.mediafire.com/?3gmry9vej1ly71a

Merge conflicts arose when both 40_09 and civforge tried to edit the same spots for some weapon damage types, such as item_weapon I believe.

I also pulled in some of your optional creatures in a raw\objects\primitive subfolder, but I believe those are simply add on files.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Grubsauce on August 24, 2014, 01:49:41 pm

Very nice mod. Had a ton of fun playing adventure as a female dinosaur axeman. Though it didn't last long I had quite a lot of money and kills under my belt when dino peasant Ahosish Praisedboots struck me down, one of the 3 survivors a rampage I comitted in some peasant dino town.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(http://i.imgur.com/k0afthB.png)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Starmantis on August 26, 2014, 05:07:30 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on August 23, 2014, 07:58:43 am

I could make you a v 40_09 that just brings in 40_09 changes. You'd have to update things like traits and whatnot but it would only take maybe 15 min w kdiff3 (I finally learned how to use it!) If that would help.

Here it is

by no way unofficial.

https://www.mediafire.com/?3gmry9vej1ly71a

Merge conflicts arose when both 40_09 and civforge tried to edit the same spots for some weapon damage types, such as item_weapon I believe.

I also pulled in some of your optional creatures in a raw\objects\primitive subfolder, but I believe those are simply add on files.

This keeps crashing at worldgen, errorlogs show that the creatures are all messed up, body segments were not connecting and there were issues with the language files

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: Mephansteras on August 26, 2014, 05:26:23 pm

I'll be releasing a basic version of the mod tonight. Just need to finish a few really minor tweaks and make sure that 40.10 didn't mess any thing up.

Leather changes will be next on my list to finalize, but those need more testing.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 2.80
Post by: thistleknot on August 26, 2014, 06:06:34 pm

Quote from: Starmantis on August 26, 2014, 05:07:30 pm

Quote from: thistleknot on August 23, 2014, 07:58:43 am

I could make you a v 40_09 that just brings in 40_09 changes. You'd have to update things like traits and whatnot but it would only take maybe 15 min w kdiff3 (I finally learned how to use it!) If that would help.

Here it is

by no way unofficial.

https://www.mediafire.com/?3gmry9vej1ly71a

Merge conflicts arose when both 40_09 and civforge tried to edit the same spots for some weapon damage types, such as item_weapon I believe.

I also pulled in some of your optional creatures in a raw\objects\primitive subfolder, but I believe those are simply add on files.

This keeps crashing at worldgen, errorlogs show that the creatures are all messed up, body segments were not connecting and there were issues with the language files

It was a blind merge, no errors were fixed. That was to b someone elses task if they wanted. I just threw it out as a freebie.

Glad to see an update coming soon :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on August 26, 2014, 11:31:26 pm

Civilization Forge 3.0 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9530) is up.

3.0 brings the mod up to compatibility with DF 0.40.5+, with a few tweaks here and there to accomodate a bunch of the changes in version. No fundamental changes, however.

There is a new optional set of Carnivore changes for Dyansauri and some primative races that you can use. They get Meat Plants to cultivate, and that keeps them from outright dying during world gen. However, they tend to be rare and often end up only on the outskirts of other races unless you have a high Savagery world.

Also, Golden Salve should work as a Soap now (in theory).

There are minor tweaks and such all over the place, and integration with the new crops and whatnot for most of the old Civ Forge plants. More work to be done...probably everywhere, but it seems pretty functional so far.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: AJC on August 27, 2014, 11:04:42 pm

you should use obsidian's vanilla raws has the pre 40.05 raws lack of sheer and yield values which made them use stone template's means that without properly set values for the sheer and yield values means regardless of what you set max-edge to they won't be able to cut skin and will just be a club even if a edged weapon is made using them.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on August 27, 2014, 11:15:53 pm

Ah, good point. I'll get that fixed.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Orange Wizard on August 27, 2014, 11:16:09 pm

Woah, hey, I should download this.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: jax3639 on August 28, 2014, 08:20:47 am

Quote from: InsanityIncarnate on August 27, 2014, 11:16:09 pm

Woah, hey, I should download this.

This is the exact same thing my brain says with every mod I see

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: thistleknot on August 28, 2014, 01:02:54 pm

your front page link to dffd says 34.09+ compatible.  Kind of confusing :)

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Splint on September 06, 2014, 07:26:25 am

A bump and to say I'm gonna give this a whirl today.

Hope you remembered to make anything war trainable fearless since now most fighting animals turn right around and flee instead. Stupid leopards were a waste of gold mugs.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on September 06, 2014, 10:45:21 am

It's on the list of things, but hasn't been implemented yet, sorry.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Splint on September 06, 2014, 07:38:29 pm

Has anyone else had trouble getting a world to generate? I've been sitting here and sitting here since I woke up from my nap and nothing.

EDIT: I've only gotten one world genned and that was less than ideal. Apparently there's some kind of trouble regarding crops, which is causing some serious problems. Also my errorlog is getting flooded with things regarding goatmen.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on September 07, 2014, 02:39:02 am

Odd, I'll have to check it again. Maybe something go messed up with the raws, since I had it working fine before.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Timeless Bob on September 07, 2014, 01:56:34 pm

I think they figured out the .09 farming bug in the Middle Earth mod.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: CaptainArchmage on September 08, 2014, 08:31:03 pm

Good to see this is still being updated, I think I’ve found some errors though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/plant_new_trees.txt"
ABACA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
BANANA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
BANANA: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
BANANA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
BANANA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
BANANA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
BANANA:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
CARAMBOLA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
CARAMBOLA: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
CARAMBOLA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
CARAMBOLA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
CARAMBOLA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
CARAMBOLA:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
CASHEW: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
CASHEW: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
CASHEW:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
CASHEW:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
CASHEW:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
CASHEW:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
COFFEE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
COFFEE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
COFFEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
COFFEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
COFFEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
COFFEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
DURIAN: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
DURIAN: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
DURIAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
DURIAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
DURIAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
DURIAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
GUAVA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
GUAVA: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
GUAVA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
GUAVA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
GUAVA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
GUAVA:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PAPAYA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PAPAYA: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PAPAYA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PAPAYA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PAPAYA:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PAPAYA:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PARADISE_NUT: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PARADISE_NUT: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PARADISE_NUT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PARADISE_NUT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PARADISE_NUT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PARADISE_NUT:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
RAMBUTAN: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
RAMBUTAN: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
RAMBUTAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
RAMBUTAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
RAMBUTAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
RAMBUTAN:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
TEA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
TEA: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
AVOCADO: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
AVOCADO: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
AVOCADO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
AVOCADO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
AVOCADO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
AVOCADO:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
LIME: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
LIME: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
POMELO: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
POMELO: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
POMELO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
POMELO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
POMELO:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
POMELO:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
CITRON: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
CITRON: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
CITRON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
CITRON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
CITRON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
CITRON:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
ORANGE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
ORANGE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
BITTER_ORANGE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
BITTER_ORANGE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
BITTER_ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
BITTER_ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
BITTER_ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
BITTER_ORANGE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
FINGER_LIME: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
FINGER_LIME: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
FINGER_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
FINGER_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
FINGER_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
FINGER_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
ROUND_LIME: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
ROUND_LIME: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
ROUND_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
ROUND_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
ROUND_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
ROUND_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
DESERT_LIME: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
DESERT_LIME: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
DESERT_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
DESERT_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
DESERT_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
DESERT_LIME:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
KUMQUAT: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
KUMQUAT: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
KUMQUAT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
KUMQUAT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
KUMQUAT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
KUMQUAT:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
CUSTARD-APPLE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
CUSTARD-APPLE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
CUSTARD-APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
CUSTARD-APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
CUSTARD-APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
CUSTARD-APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
DATE_PALM: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
DATE_PALM: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
DATE_PALM:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
LYCHEE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
LYCHEE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
LYCHEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
LYCHEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
LYCHEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
LYCHEE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
MACADAMIA: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
OLIVE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
OLIVE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
OLIVE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
OLIVE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
OLIVE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
OLIVE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
OLIVE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_GLOB_PRESSED
POMEGRANATE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
POMEGRANATE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
POMEGRANATE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
POMEGRANATE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
POMEGRANATE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
POMEGRANATE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
ALMOND: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
APPLE: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
APPLE: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
APPLE:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
APRICOT: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
APRICOT: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
APRICOT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
APRICOT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
APRICOT:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
APRICOT:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
BAYBERRY: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
BAYBERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
BAYBERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
BAYBERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
BAYBERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
CHERRY: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
CHERRY: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
CHERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
CHERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
CHERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
CHERRY:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PEACH: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PEACH: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PEACH:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PEACH:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PEACH:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PEACH:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PEAR: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PEAR: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PERSIMMON: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PERSIMMON: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PERSIMMON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PERSIMMON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PERSIMMON:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PERSIMMON:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
PLUM: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
PLUM: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
PLUM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
PLUM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
PLUM:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
PLUM:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
SAND_PEAR: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
SAND_PEAR: Could not locate material template FRUIT_TEMPLATE
SAND_PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_VERMIN
SAND_PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_RAW
SAND_PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: EDIBLE_COOKED
SAND_PEAR:Unrecognized Plant Token: STOCKPILE_PLANT_GROWTH
WALNUT: Could not locate material template FLOWER_TEMPLATE
*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_dyansauri_cf.txt"
Unrecognized Personality Facet Token: ANGER
*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_generic.txt"
ANIMAL:Unrecognized Creature Caste Body Token: QUADRUPED_HOOF
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: TAIL
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: 2EYES
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: 2EARS
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: NOSE
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: 2LUNGS
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: HEART
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: GUTS
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: ORGANS
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: THROAT
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: NECK
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: SPINE
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: BRAIN
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: SKULL
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: 2HEAD_HORN
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: MOUTH
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: TONGUE
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: GENERIC_TEETH
ANIMAL:Body Token Recognized But Could Not Connect: RIBCAGE
ANIMAL:Unrecognized Material Template: SHELL_TEMPLATED
ANIMAL:Unrecognized Creature Token: PREFIX
ANIMAL:Unrecognized Material Template: HOOF_TEMPLATED
ANIMAL:Unrecognized Creature Token: PREFIX
*** Error(s) found in the file "raw/objects/creature_goatman_cf.txt"
GOATMAN:Attack SCRATCH seems to have correct format but could not find proper BPs in any caste, so not added


Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Splint on September 11, 2014, 11:34:22 am

Those were what showed up in my game too. i thought they had something to do with the rejections but they didn't. It also appears that the goatmen/beastman civ isn't properly insane and hateful of everything around them like they should be.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on September 11, 2014, 02:24:24 pm

Sorry about the delay on getting a new version out, I started a new job this week and have been quite busy.

Goatmen are actually different from Beastmen. They're just normal goat people. Beastmen...aren't in this version, actually. I need to put them back in.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: infiniteunrest on September 26, 2014, 06:11:50 am

Quote from: Mephansteras on September 11, 2014, 02:24:24 pm

Sorry about the delay on getting a new version out, I started a new job this week and have been quite busy.

No worries, looking forward to it though! Good luck with the new job.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Orange Wizard on September 26, 2014, 05:33:52 pm

Trying to gen a new (small) world with this mod. Unless I reduce the number of civilisations via the Advanced menu, the game will always reject a world after placing civs. Assuming it doesn't crash.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Xyon on April 02, 2015, 10:14:35 pm

Oh man I remember this from years ago, glad to hear you got a new job, I guess the updates have not been coming along much for this though?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on April 02, 2015, 11:11:11 pm

Yeah, I'm behind a bit. I'll probably get it updated after the new version comes out. I'll have to see how the knowledge stuff shakes out to see how it'll effect the libraries and alchemy and whatnot.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Splint on April 02, 2015, 11:49:04 pm

Don't forget the display stands for junk artifacts.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on April 03, 2015, 12:27:37 am

Ah, yes.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Xyon on April 03, 2015, 06:38:43 am

Cool, cant wait to see what happens over the horizon.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: dubem on May 10, 2015, 07:17:51 am

So uhh, im kinda new to the forums and all that..i dunno why im pointing that out but anyways: i have a problem with this here mod, whenever i try to create a world it always crashes and starts creating the world all over again once it's almost done with the civs, is there any fix for this? im using DF 40.24 and followed the installation instructions, the description does say that it is compatible with 40.05 and everything past that point.
Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on May 12, 2015, 12:38:55 pm

Hmm. Can you post some of the errors you get in the error log?

Also, are you using ALL of the races in the mod (including the animalman races?) or just some of them? You're probably better off only including, say, 10 races at most. Otherwise the game can have trouble putting everything into a world.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: acekid2 on July 21, 2015, 04:49:57 am

I'm just curious, is this mod still being updated? It's by far my favorite mod and I'd hate to see it slowly die out.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on July 21, 2015, 10:23:47 am

Quote from: acekid2 on July 21, 2015, 04:49:57 am

I'm just curious, is this mod still being updated? It's by far my favorite mod and I'd hate to see it slowly die out.

It's not being actively updated at the moment, but it's not dead. I'm planning on doing a major overhaul once the next version of DF gets released.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: HappyBivouac on November 29, 2015, 12:38:55 am

Forgive me if this has been addressed, but is there any way to get civforge creature graphics for 40.24?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on November 29, 2015, 01:16:39 am

Hmm. I haven't tried to do anything with graphics so I'm not sure. Has anyone else gotten them to work in a while?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on December 21, 2015, 02:49:25 pm

I have begun the process of converting the raws over to the new version of DF. Might take a bit, but I'll try to release some in-progress versions as I get stuff working.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Splint on December 21, 2015, 05:52:47 pm

What are you going to do with the library system now that actual ones are in-game?

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on December 21, 2015, 08:09:59 pm

Quote from: Splint on December 21, 2015, 05:52:47 pm

What are you going to do with the library system now that actual ones are in-game?

Probably keep it as is but pare it down a little. Still give you the option to train up dwarves using books, but I'll get rid of all of the social/fluff books that were there since better ones are in vanilla now. I also need to see how much I can make use of the new bookmaking stuff. I'd love to get rid of the junky book crate system if I can.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Iban on February 27, 2016, 02:55:20 pm

I'm giving this a love bump because IMO the only thing DF lacks is a variety of civs.

I used to play the hell out of the Dig Deeper mod back in the day but this is the second best as far as I know.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on February 27, 2016, 05:31:52 pm

Yeah, sorry. Been caught up in a bunch of other stuff lately and haven't put as much work into this as I need to. Should have some more time in the next few weeks, though, so I'm planning on getting back into it.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Putnam on February 28, 2016, 07:42:08 pm

hey not sure if i mentioned yet (certainly not in the last year or two) but this was the first mod i ever played, fun fact

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Rekov on February 29, 2016, 03:40:10 am

Is this at all compatible with 0.42.06? It looks quite interesting.

Title: Re: Civilization Forge 3.0
Post by: Mephansteras on February 29, 2016, 11:13:17 am

Not really, no. I am planning on focusing on it this week, though, so hopefully I'll have at least a partial version up soon.