Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2012, 09:59:04 pm

Title: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2012, 09:59:04 pm
Do you want more meat on your animals? Tired of micro-managing your careful eugenics programs for your Dwarves' wholesome nourishment?

If not, it's still an excuse to drown things.

That's reason enough.

One day I happened to come across the idea of using the undead to preserve corpses, and by extension, preserving bacon for a Dwarf vault. On the occasion where the notion that becoming undead instantly makes something more muscular, the two facts clicked in my mind to form a whole new concept.

Zombie bacon farms.

Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.

It adds Fun to your food.

If you haven't caught the gist of the situation here - there's a way to garner more meat from your slaughter.

What you need:
1. A source of undead evil goodness. A necromancer or evil biome with spooooky interactions will do just fine.
2. A source of meat.
3. ???
4. Water

First, start building a drowning chamber.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It need not be anything fancy - it could just be a hole in the floor for all it needs to be. As long as you drown things in it, it's good.

Next, secure your source of necromancy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Add your livestock. For purpose of demonstration : Three pigs and one dog.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Assemble the fortress for the demonstration.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

PULL THE LEVER
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Animal data
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In retrospect I probably should've chained up the animals.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Results afterwards:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Size bonus and muscle bonus. More bacon for all.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Notes: The drowning just ensures the corpses stay fresh and uninjured, ensuring maximum yield. I originally tried it with a regular ol' evil biome and I'd say it works better than with a necromancer; whilst the animals are drowning the undead can still hurt them and potentially sever limbs, lowering bacon yields. On the other hand a necromancer is much more reliable and more easily controlled. In addition the corpse could potentially rot before the evil biome raises it whereas a necromancer will raise a corpse as soon as it has visual contact, guaranteeing your corpse stays fresh.
Also if you want to drown the necromancer for Fun, make the chamber at least 3x3. 2x1 is too small apparently, it was a very close call.




There is a serious science in why doing such things is profitable for your Fort's well-being.


*EDIT
Fixed broken images.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 21, 2012, 10:08:20 pm
But can you eat undead corpses?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 21, 2012, 10:11:43 pm
If you slaughter them first, yes.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: darkrider2 on July 21, 2012, 10:52:27 pm
I. love. you.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: acetech09 on July 21, 2012, 10:55:17 pm
Can you drag a undead pig to your butcher's shop, or do you have to re-kill the zombie corpses and butcher them from a stockpile?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Sutremaine on July 21, 2012, 10:56:23 pm
Also a good way of recycling unwanted pets, as their ownership tag goes away once they get reanimated.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2012, 12:02:10 am
Can you drag a undead pig to your butcher's shop, or do you have to re-kill the zombie corpses and butcher them from a stockpile?
You have to first lodge an axe in the creature's brain, yes.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Sabreur on July 22, 2012, 12:41:09 am
Excellent science!  Also, I like that you have successfully used "Bacon" as a verb.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: DrKillPatient on July 22, 2012, 01:16:22 am
The carpenter in the first picture doesn't seem to be scared of the necromancer. What's up with that?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: XXSockXX on July 22, 2012, 08:04:00 am
I never run out of meat, but this is a very nice application for a necro migrant.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Sutremaine on July 22, 2012, 09:23:40 am
By the way, what the heck is going on in that last panel? How did those dwarves get set off like that?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2012, 10:54:33 am
By the way, what the heck is going on in that last panel? How did those dwarves get set off like that?
One of the Dwarves must've not liked the cramped conditions and attacked another Dwarf. Apparently at some point while this was happening, a loyalty cascade occurred. I locked the brass doors to see what happened next, then once the water lever had lowered the necromancer decided now was a good time to start raising Dwarf corpses.

The carpenter in the first picture doesn't seem to be scared of the necromancer. What's up with that?
It was in a cage before I chained it. Apparently chains and cages make everything docile.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on July 22, 2012, 01:05:04 pm
It's probably best if you do this with a necromancer, not an evil biome, so that you can kill and butcher the Bacon safely elsewhere. Viewing galleries are also apparently not recommended.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on July 22, 2012, 03:01:10 pm
This is why I love dwarf fortress in a nutshell. Discovery for the ages.

I don't know what is more impressive, that dwarves can skip salting and curing meat opting for zombiefication, or that the dark art of necromancy has been twisted to the cause of curing meats.

For what good is immortality, if your beloved, delicious meats can't join you in eternity.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2012, 03:32:08 pm
It's probably best if you do this with a necromancer, not an evil biome, so that you can kill and butcher the Bacon safely elsewhere. Viewing galleries are also apparently not recommended.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Sutremaine on July 22, 2012, 03:35:07 pm
Heh. Can I sig that?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 22, 2012, 03:38:06 pm
If you want to sure
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Pyro627 on August 20, 2012, 02:32:35 pm
By the way, what the heck is going on in that last panel? How did those dwarves get set off like that?
One of the Dwarves must've not liked the cramped conditions and attacked another Dwarf. Apparently at some point while this was happening, a loyalty cascade occurred. I locked the brass doors to see what happened next, then once the water lever had lowered the necromancer decided now was a good time to start raising Dwarf corpses.

Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.

Edit: It seems that the necromancer in question is loose.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Hurize on August 20, 2012, 02:51:50 pm
By the way, what the heck is going on in that last panel? How did those dwarves get set off like that?
One of the Dwarves must've not liked the cramped conditions and attacked another Dwarf. Apparently at some point while this was happening, a loyalty cascade occurred. I locked the brass doors to see what happened next, then once the water lever had lowered the necromancer decided now was a good time to start raising Dwarf corpses.

Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.

NECRO ALERT l NECRO ALERT
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 20, 2012, 04:02:50 pm
NECRO ALERT l NECRO ALERT
Necromancer? Quick! Get the pigs!
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: darkrider2 on August 20, 2012, 04:09:23 pm
Alert the emergency responders! A necromancer tower fell over on the thread!
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: WealthyRadish on August 20, 2012, 04:22:40 pm
Well, it's only a month... the thread probably just went into a diabetic coma.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 20, 2012, 04:56:56 pm
Too much delicious undead bacon to handle in a day, couldn't have been good for the thread
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 09, 2012, 02:54:02 pm
I want to do this, but I'm unsure of the specifics. Is drowning needed? Because I think I know how you could do this without tons of water.
1. Long drop onto your fortress' finest spikes, preferably bronze, iron, steel, or *gasp* adamantine. Kill your livestock instantly.
2. Pull a lever to lower the spikes, and let the necromancer see the animals. Let him reanimate them.
3. Pull it again to raise the spikes, re-killing the animals and blocking the necro.

Questions:
- Is drowning required so the animals are uninjured? If so, disregard everything I said :I
- You could remove the spikes and raise the drop to reduce overall injury, but that makes killing the zombies hard again, right?
- Can necromancers see through solid glass walls? Nobody agrees on this. (Or, a fortification in front of a window would work better)
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 09, 2012, 03:15:56 pm
Questions:
- Is drowning required so the animals are uninjured? If so, disregard everything I said :I
Yah, unless the animal is a grazer and can be starved to death.

- You could remove the spikes and raise the drop to reduce overall injury, but that makes killing the zombies hard again, right?
???
I just send in Marksdwarves/Mace/Hammer Dwarves to do the killing.

- Can necromancers see through solid glass walls?
Noot
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 09, 2012, 03:22:17 pm
Military deployment = too much work
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Emily on October 09, 2012, 03:26:59 pm
Can zombies be caught in cage traps? And can you butcher them from the cage traps? (...that would require being tame though and I assume the renamation detames them.)

I think spike traps may be a better idea just on the grounds of they can also kill the zombies.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: darkgloomie on October 09, 2012, 03:42:47 pm
Military deployment = too much work
well, upright traps to kill the undead after drowning could work, I think?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 09, 2012, 05:58:11 pm
Military deployment = too much work
well, upright traps to kill the undead after drowning could work, I think?
Exactly, and you don't even need to time anything, because you can have it on the same lever.

The only problem is if the spikes cause severed limbs - from Adventure Mode tests, a dead vulture and a mutilated dead vulture both gave 9 vulture meat, showing that if there is a loss when butchering mutilated corpses, it isn't that significant.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on October 09, 2012, 08:46:36 pm
...
The only problem is if the spikes cause severed limbs - from Adventure Mode tests, a dead vulture and a mutilated dead vulture both gave 9 vulture meat, showing that if there is a loss when butchering mutilated corpses, it isn't that significant.

The game actually keeps track of which body parts were severed and how much meat was on each, and it's all based on relative body part sizes. Body parts don't count until they pass a size threshold, and only add up integer amounts. A vulture is size 9000, whereas a water buffalo is size 1000000.

Details here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78108.msg2012244#msg2012244

Since it takes longer to butcher several dead pieces, I'd suggest keeping the body intact.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 10, 2012, 11:03:22 am
Since it takes longer to butcher several dead pieces, I'd suggest keeping the body intact.
Which is why that much more little effort is woth it :3
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Gaybarowner on October 10, 2012, 11:34:13 am
Hey mommy whats going on..

S-science my son.. beautiful science..
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: nanomage on October 10, 2012, 11:45:02 am
I suggest using high z-drop to kill the zombies. While this produces more butchery and tanning jobs, the advantage is more bone stacks (useful for moods and decorations) and, most importantly, much more leather.
Initially animals may be killed by upright spikes I think - in larger animals, they can only sever teeth or maybe horns, and those are unsignificant. This
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: goblolo on October 26, 2012, 04:47:05 am
Can zombies be caught in cage traps? And can you butcher them from the cage traps?
And can you tame them from a cage?
Then breed.
Then war-train.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 26, 2012, 06:10:03 am
Can zombies be caught in cage traps? And can you butcher them from the cage traps?
And can you tame them from a cage?
Then breed.
Then war-train.
1. [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]
2. [NOT_LIVING]
3. Dear eyes of my eyes why would you want to do this
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: goblolo on October 26, 2012, 07:04:45 am
1. [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]

But if i can tame them, there will be my 'tame' zombos.

Just imagine: fortress is under attack, gobbos marching from east. All what i need to do is to drop some Z's from the fortress wall so they can deal with invaders.
It will not be just Z's killing gobbos.
It will be MY Z's!
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: StLeibowitz on October 26, 2012, 10:51:48 am
Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.

I am glad this thread was necroed. I found my first sig!
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Zombi on November 26, 2012, 06:26:46 pm
My brain hurts now, you can eat undead?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: nanomage on November 27, 2012, 01:52:05 am
My brain hurts now, you can eat undead?
yeah, sure, until they rot, and why couldn't you?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on November 27, 2012, 02:04:19 am
My brain hurts now, you can eat undead?

They aren't undead when you eat them, as one of the processing steps is to make them dead again.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Gaybarowner on November 27, 2012, 07:21:31 am
Hmm what if instead of pigs you add giant sponges that died.. instant zombie torture chamber
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 27, 2012, 03:57:05 pm
Hmm what if instead of pigs you add giant sponges that died.. instant zombie torture chamber
How do eat zombie sponge? ;_;
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 27, 2012, 05:37:58 pm
How do eat zombie sponge? ;_;
How do you kill a zombie sponge?
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: pisskop on November 27, 2012, 05:40:20 pm
Drop it into a pit full of large, flying masterful monsters who swarm in large numbers.  Open the pit up in a year and see !!science!!
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: taptap on December 19, 2014, 01:40:12 pm
There are some obvious issues w/ the implementation. I appreciate the idea. (+ Will run my next fortress vegetarian, if I think about it.)
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: pisskop on December 19, 2014, 01:47:43 pm
Well no.  Aside from the risk of dying to zombies and the speed at which it must be done.  Zombies in 34 were easier to kill too . . .

Ideally you drop animals into a pit.  They bleed out.  A nearby necromancer reanimates it, and then gets his LOS broken.  You kill the critter, who is now buffed for strength to the point of providing more meat.  You butcher the critter fast.  Bacon.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Max™ on December 19, 2014, 09:35:50 pm
Worthwhile necro just for fixed images.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Archereon on December 20, 2014, 10:06:31 am
Will necromancers even raise corpses when not in combat? IIRC they don't anymore.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Dwarf4Explosives on March 30, 2015, 01:19:43 pm
As far as I know, they will. Then again, I've been testing in arena, so...
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Max™ on March 30, 2015, 06:48:46 pm
Yes they will, I've cut limbs off of them in adventurer mode and had them reanimate it immediately.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Amaranth on October 13, 2021, 03:06:33 pm
A drowning then freezing chamber. Maybe by exposing the water to nether cap or ice walls. If thats possible and butchering animals that froze is possible in fort then its probably the better way of preservation especially if you can leave the frozen chamber static for a year and unfreeze it hopefully the bacon hasn't rotten in the ice. If its possible i think that's a fridge freezer.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Thisfox on October 13, 2021, 09:48:23 pm
Honestly I just leave food animals in a small walled-off section of the caverns with enough cave moss to graze on in perpetuity, then take from the endless breeding chamber as needed. I have been known to have a "male animals" section and a "female animals" section which I can breed from if I don't want the population explosion to be too massive.

That said, I had forgotten about the zombie bacon thread, thankyou for reminding me.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 14, 2021, 02:40:59 am
A drowning then freezing chamber. Maybe by exposing the water to nether cap or ice walls. If thats possible and butchering animals that froze is possible in fort then its probably the better way of preservation especially if you can leave the frozen chamber static for a year and unfreeze it hopefully the bacon hasn't rotten in the ice. If its possible i think that's a fridge freezer.
With seasonal map freezing you could have a pretty reliable way of freeze preserving food. Or perhaps you could do it on a map with permanent freezing, and set up freezer rooms which you dig out every time you need access to food stores. Food preservation is mostly just a positive side effect of necromancy as the main benefit is the size, muscle, fat, aggression and possibly age increase, so you could make your own cool freezer setup

Honestly I just leave food animals in a small walled-off section of the caverns with enough cave moss to graze on in perpetuity, then take from the endless breeding chamber as needed. I have been known to have a "male animals" section and a "female animals" section which I can breed from if I don't want the population explosion to be too massive.

That said, I had forgotten about the zombie bacon thread, thankyou for reminding me.
Cheap and easy is usually always the best way, but it's nice to remember dwarfy overengineering every now and then ;D
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Immortal-D on October 21, 2021, 09:38:56 pm
Posting for posterity.  I remember voting for this project 2 HoL's ago.  Dang it but I am old :-\  On a serious note; I thought that encasing, be it ice or obsidian, effectively destroys any items, even if the ice thaws instead of being mined.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Bumber on October 24, 2021, 09:39:06 am
On a serious note; I thought that encasing, be it ice or obsidian, effectively destroys any items, even if the ice thaws instead of being mined.

Nope, but encased items still rot, so it won't work regardless.
Title: Re: How to Bacon like a pro
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2021, 05:25:04 am
That's a shame