Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Robosaur on March 25, 2012, 12:34:37 pm

Title: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Robosaur on March 25, 2012, 12:34:37 pm
I watched an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer last night featuring a monster called Gnarl who would paralyze you, then cut your skin into little strips and eat it in front of you in a process that would take 6 hours of pain and torture, and ended up thinking of DF's night creatures.

So yeah, I just think it would be cool if we could get creatures that would rather eat you alive slowly (or hell, just torture, no eating) then kill you outright.
Good idea?
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2012, 12:57:27 pm
The problem with a creature-level token is that it means all creatures of this type enjoy torture as an innate aspect of their being, the way that needing to breathe air is a part of their being.

Instead, we already have things like personality traits, which can lean a character to be more likely to enjoy harming other beings and dislike being nice to other beings (the way that goblins do), and giving them civ-level [ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:PERSONAL_MATTER] type things.  That means it's more a personal choice than something innate to their being.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Neonivek on March 25, 2012, 01:04:39 pm
Also that creature killed that way not because it loved torture (it seemed almost mindless) but because it needed fresh skin.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on March 25, 2012, 05:39:26 pm
Could offer another gruesome !!scientific!! use for the restraints and traction benches.  You could use these to torture experiment to find to limits of goblin, elven, human, kobold, etcs. endurance and please for release information acquirement.

Pits can be used as forget-me-knots, animal torture ball pits (see child care thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91093.0), and drowning and melting spa chambers.

Drawing and quartering biopsies for their !!Scientific!! value, which are necessary for furthering scientific understanding.  I'm sure the victim volunteer understood this when they ran, crawled, and screamed through hallways over the corpses of their brethren only surviving due to the traps being jammed with the corpses of the dead and dying couldn't wait to signed up.

Branding for the aesthetic value.....and the smell of bacon, gotta love that bacon.

Hanging cages for dunking and slow baking at the hand of torturer Dwarfa McStewart in order to create the perfect artifact quality food and that perfect ambiance for the coming meal.

This can turn into a !!FUN!! thread......God I have problems...... :D
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2012, 06:38:21 pm
I came up with a way to make an "Elf Hell" a while ago...  The point was to think of the most horrific things that could be done to an elf.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then, someone actually built it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on March 25, 2012, 06:43:47 pm
It's...it's...beautiful!  I really would like torture to be brought into the game--at least for fortress mode--since I sometimes need something more depraved than watching goblins and trolls dieing in drove within my execution chambers--a room of traps and the other is firing squad based--or being thrown off the edge of a drop trap 30z's down int my mines.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 25, 2012, 06:53:37 pm
Of course, we now have evil biomes and evil clouds.  Plus FBs...

Some of those syndromes do things like cause victims to have their internal organs slowly melt into a liquid as they vomit their insides out, bleeding through their eye sockets (whose blood is, itself, a fortress-slaying vector of the disease) until they waste away into an empty skin bag. 

You could just... you know, make your prisoner pit happen to be a place where that dust happens to have collected.  See what happens. 

Remember, scientific rigor requires you do it at least hundreds of times before posting your results.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on March 25, 2012, 06:58:31 pm
Of coarse validity is the most important aspect of !!SCIENCE!!.  Problem is all the FB's I've seen have only had spittle and no other syndrome inducers.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Robosaur on March 25, 2012, 08:32:30 pm
The problem with a creature-level token is that it means all creatures of this type enjoy torture as an innate aspect of their being, the way that needing to breathe air is a part of their being.

Uhhhh that was the idea
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Sus on March 26, 2012, 04:53:05 am
Oh, enjoys torturing others... I misunderstood (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TooKinkyToTorture).  :-[
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Robosaur on March 26, 2012, 08:02:59 am
Yeah this isn't an ethic thing this is an instinct that drives every member of the creature to torture. It can't be an ethics thing because it would be in (certain) animals too.

hell cats would have this tag!
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on March 28, 2012, 08:21:42 pm
Would there be a way to make it so it was no longer an entire civ/ethnic/creature related token but given on an individual basis?  Also could this be a side effect of evil biomes/spheres in that creature born and raise here become steadily more devious over the generations/time spent there.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 08:34:18 pm
Would there be a way to make it so it was no longer an entire civ/ethnic/creature related token but given on an individual basis?  Also could this be a side effect of evil biomes/spheres in that creature born and raise here become steadily more devious over the generations/time spent there.

That would be personality-based, which is where I believe it belongs.

To say that every single creature of a species shares the exact same psychological trait is a little strange, in general. 
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Gotdamnmiracle on March 28, 2012, 09:32:20 pm
Man I love Alyson Hannigan. Sigh. Yeah, I love that episode. That whole season is pretty good in fact.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Robosaur on March 29, 2012, 03:22:04 pm
Would there be a way to make it so it was no longer an entire civ/ethnic/creature related token but given on an individual basis?  Also could this be a side effect of evil biomes/spheres in that creature born and raise here become steadily more devious over the generations/time spent there.

That would be personality-based, which is where I believe it belongs.

To say that every single creature of a species shares the exact same psychological trait is a little strange, in general.

Then in that case, maybe it would be a personality tag like what Dwarves have, for compassion and stuff. That way, it'd be possible to mod in an animal or demon that enjoys slowly killing it's victim, with maybe just a few outliers.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 29, 2012, 08:16:58 pm
Personality Rewrite is supposed to be about how personality traits we have now are not useful for the game, and Toady wants to have things like "enjoys hurting people" and "penchant for crime", so that they are more "judgmental", and the criminal traits will lead to criminal dwarves or bandits or something. 

Making an "outright sadistic torturer" personality trait wouldn't be far-fetched, and it could just be slanted far away from that on most races, so as to make it very rare, but some creatures could have a very high probability of it.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on March 30, 2012, 12:44:34 am
It would give us something to build to;to strive towards.  Start with an innocent and benign character and slowly turn them into something far fouler then any goblin or nightbeast. Or even the clowns for that matter!  Overall it could just be like a little tick at first, similar to how some people like watching fires burn, and can grow with each "taste" to the point where your walking away from your neighbors inferno of a house with an empty gas can in your hand.  Except that the house is a workshop smeared with blood and sizzling with magma and the gas can is his head/torso/guts/liver/heart/etc.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: nxcho on March 31, 2012, 07:26:46 am
At first I thought this suggestion was about masochism. "...He enjoyed a good spanking lately..."
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 31, 2012, 12:53:14 pm
At first I thought this suggestion was about masochism. "...He enjoyed a good spanking lately..."

... another possibility for the Personality Rewrite.   :P
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on March 31, 2012, 05:26:13 pm
Would there be a way to make it so it was no longer an entire civ/ethnic/creature related token but given on an individual basis?  Also could this be a side effect of evil biomes/spheres in that creature born and raise here become steadily more devious over the generations/time spent there.

That would be personality-based, which is where I believe it belongs.

To say that every single creature of a species shares the exact same psychological trait is a little strange, in general.

I think that the idea was for night creatures, which are rare enough that likely only a handful would enjoy torture, and would be raised by torture-loving parents, and are also Monsters of the Night.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Robosaur on March 31, 2012, 11:58:00 pm
I totally think most, if not all but a few, night creatures should be able to [ENJOY_TORTURE], and take those they do not want to convert into spouses and instead eat them slowly while they are forced to watch.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: Supersnes on April 03, 2012, 01:39:22 am
Just had a !!scientific!! idea :D   You are torturing a werebeast to the brink of death and then they heal after every transformation.  So this means that even as they die they are wisked away from the sweet embrace of death to continue their agony over and over again.  Seems like a good way to grind the soon to be, hopefully, torturer skill tag.
Title: Re: [ENJOYS_TORTURE]
Post by: NW_Kohaku on April 03, 2012, 10:06:20 am
I think that the idea was for night creatures, which are rare enough that likely only a handful would enjoy torture, and would be raised by torture-loving parents, and are also Monsters of the Night.

Even then, however, if the Personality Rewrite works similarly to how it works now, you could simply set those specific hags to something like [PERSONALITY:SADISM:75:95:100]

Provided the "loves torture" range is 80+, you're basically saying that 87.5% of the species is going to love torturing people, but still leaving 12.5% to be the "weirdos" who are perfectly fine with committing torture, but don't quite get off on it.