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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Darvi on April 26, 2012, 05:26:42 am

Title: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on April 26, 2012, 05:26:42 am

Beginner's Mafia XXXIII
I'm in ur gaem, lynching ur players.

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Introduction

This version of the game is aimed specifically at players who are new to Mafia, or are still relatively inexperienced. Here, it's more about having fun and learning than anything else, so don't give up hope if you find yourself in a bad position!
This Beginners' Mafia will feature playing ICs. This means that two more experienced people will join in the game to help you guys out and will actually be playing in the game. They can also be scum too, so always stay suspicious!
The ICs will never lie to you about the game mechanics though, and will usually have a special IC voice to use when they want to teach you guys, since their goal will be to get you guys ready for a real Mafia game. Just because they're playing doesn't mean you can't learn!

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Gameplay and Concept

In Mafia, you are divided into two parts: 7 Town players and 2 Mafia players:

If you are Town, your goal is to lynch the Mafia. You do this by convincing others that one of the group is scum, and getting enough votes on them to lynch them.  The Town does not know who else is Town.

If you are Mafia, your goal is to kill off the Town until there is an equal number of them to you by getting them to lynch other Town or by killing them. You are given a kill each Night to kill any player in the game.  All the Mafia members know each other, and can communicate privately.

Each Day, everyone votes to lynch a player.  Vote for a player by posting their name in red.  You may change your vote at any time, remove your vote, or vote for No Lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day gets lynched, even if there is no majority. (Example: Nobody votes except for one guy, who votes Generic_Steve. Generic_Steve would get lynched). If you have a great deal of suspicion for someone, but don't want to vote for them just yet, point their name out in blue.

The Day will not end prematurely unless people vote to shorten the day. That is, there is no "hammer" in Beginner's Mafia, where X amount of votes (more than 50%) on a single person immediately ends the day with a lynch on that person. Some games do that, but not this one, and you would be explicitly informed in the rules if the hammer is active.

If there are tied votes for who gets lynched at the end of the day, the day ends in a no-lynch. (Two people vote for Generic_Steve, two people vote for Unassuming_Mary. Nobody gets lynched.) 

Each Night, you send in your actions. The cycle continues until one side wins. Days are 72 hours and nights are 24 hours. W33kends count for zero hours.

---

Rules and Guidelines

• You may not PM other players other than the mod. The mafia will have a place to talk to themselves.
• Never edit your posts, even to fix typos!  If you make a mistake, just double post- it's permitted here. Violation of this rule can lead to deadly repercussions.  I recommend using the preview button every time you post.
• Never quote your role PM or any other PM sent to you by the mod.
• If you n33d more time to discuss, you may ask for an extension.  If more players ask for one than those who decline one, the day will be extended by 48 hours.
• • There are no limit to the number of extensions allowed per day.
     
• Please don't forget about this game if you sign up! If you cannot continue playing, please ask for a replacement! I will prod you via PM if you do not post in 48 hours to remind you that this game exists!
• • Note that a Mafia game usually takes a long time to finish: two w33ks at least, and sometimes even longer than a month. Be ready for this.
  • Upon receiving your second prod, you are forcibly replaced (Another player takes your place) or modkilled (removed from the game) for inactivity. Beware.
     
• Upon being killed, you are entitled to one "Bah!" post, but you are not allowed to post any game-related content. After your Bah post, you MUST NOT POST AGAIN unless you somehow come back to life (impossible in this setup) or replace back in (you must have b33n town to do this). Failure to comply with this rule can lead to a bad reputation amongst mods, and difficulty in joining other games.
• Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!

In this setup, there are the possibility of extra roles. These roles are Cop and Doctor for Town, and Roleblocker and Godfather for Mafia.

• A Cop inspects any player at Night. They are told that player's alignment, but not their role.
• A Doctor may protect any player at Night. This stops that player from being killed.
• A Roleblocker stops an extra role from using an action. This stops Doctors and Cops but does nothing for Townies.
• • Roleblockers do not actually discover if their attempts were successful or not; that would be too powerful because the roleblocker would know they found a town power role. It isn't an investigative role (the same goes for the Doctor)! The Mafia n33ds to find the town power roles the old-fashioned way: analyzing behavior and voting patterns.
  • Townies do not receive a message if they were blocked by a Mafia Roleblocker. Only a Cop or a Doctor will receive a message.
     
• A Godfather, if investigated by a Cop, looks just like a normal Townie.

There is a 50% chance for any of these roles to show up. It is possible to end up with no extra roles.

Extensions require support from at least one of the players.  You may oppose extensions as well, which cancels out an extension request.  For example, if there were five players, with two requesting and two opposing, there would be no extension.  (2-2 = 0 of 5)

Along with opposing extensions, there is also the option to Shorten/End the Day. They work differently from extensions, 33% required to pass with no objections. Shortening the Day ends the Day makes the day end as quickly as I can process it. Due to the nature of these requests, they also act just like Counter-Extensions.

Please bold requests/opposition to extensions, and Mod/my name if you want to ask me a question in-thread.  (IE: Mod: I have a question!)

---

Attendance Sh33t

Players:

• obolisk0430
• Dr Phibes
• borno
• Jiokuy
• Hapah
• Karlito
• Lord Allagon

ICs:

• Shakerag
• Urist Imiknorris
• Non-playing Mafia IC: Toaster who toasts toasts
• Non-playing perma-IC: Jim

Player Replacement Queue:

---

Frequently Asked Questions

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Oh my god this game s33ms fun. But wait, what are the rules?
  This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0) is a good Mafia tutorial, brought to you by the wise JoshuaFH. H33d his words. It isn't included here because it's rather too long for that.
• People are accusing me of being scum! I'm about to get lynched! What do I do?
  The first and most important order of business is not to give up.
  One, two votes isn't much. Even if someone's got a bandwagon on you and people are writing walls of accusations, do not lose hope. You can still turn this around, no matter how bleak it appears. Fight them with your own arguments, and search for people you may think are scum, and try to turn the votes against them. About the worst thing you can do is give up, whether you are town or scum; you are harming the town by making it lose another member, distracting them from hunts for the true scum, and worsening your own game as well.
  The other players have nothing against you: it's just how the game goes. Even if you foul it up and people yell at you for it, once the game is over we're all friends.
  There are still people who give up, saying things like "You'll all be sorry when you find out I'm just town afterwards!" and "I'm not even going to try, there no way to stop this". Don't be that guy. Not only is it rather selfish, it will simply d33pen your grave. You have to get out of it with real, meat-laden arguments, and these empty threats and remarks will only make you appear more scummy.
• Do I have to post so much? I can't be bothered.
  Yes, you do. You have to be an active player to scumhunt effectively, and with a lurking playerbase you might as well just hand it to the scum. There is always something to say; even if someone said what you wanted to, say it anyways in your own words. Always ask questions, always observe.
  This is a very demanding game. If you don't have enough time, then perhaps you should look elsewhere.
• How do I even tell if someone's scum anyways?
  This is, in fact, a difficult question. The game involves a lot of observation, and often it's more about intuition.
  You can often tell with the help of the List of Common Scumtells, provided below, but don't make the mistake of overusing it. Not every accusal against you is an OMGUS, and not all attempts at logic are WIFOM.  If in doubt, always remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. Don't take anything for granted.
• What's all this wine stuff that players k33p talking about? Does Mafia cause alcoholism?
  They are likely referring to the concept of WIFOM. It's a name for the kind of circular reasoning that you'd find when scrutinising scum motives, and is described in the CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia below. It goes like this:
  
  A: Why didn't our most active player get killed? It would be the scum's goal to kill the most active players to remove accusal, wouldn't it? The only conclusion is that [active player] is scum!
  
  B: Or is it? What if the scum wants to k33p the most active player to draw suspicion on him? The scum could then head the attack on this player, thus pushing themselves into a position of trust amongst the town! I've got my eye on you, A!
  
  A: No, that isn't right! Clearly, they would stay in the background, and the people who go for the bait like me would be attacked by the scum, thus making themselves appear insightful! B, how dare you do this to me!
  
  B: Or perhaps the scum would be someone voting for a person that isn't the subject of a bandwagon, thus appearing both inconspicuous and independent! [lurker], you are scum!
  
  As you can s33 here, both A and B are making wild speculations on the motives of the scum. Their votes and eyes are all over the place, and nothing is really getting done. It distracts from real scumhunting, which is s33ing people play and making observations from that, not speculating on how people would or would not play.

---

Resources
Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)

Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).
Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone f33ls 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your f33lings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you s33 them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"


Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't f33l like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'f33ling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to s33 more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:


Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to s33 if you still f33l he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.



That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and s33 if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, k33p the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT n33d to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.


And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, k33p random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

Spoiler: CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia (click to show/hide)

Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.

Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.

BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)

Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bussing, throwing him/her under the bus) When a mafia member attacks another one in order to make themselves look like a loyal townie when his or her scumpartner gets lynched.

Cult - A group of players that share a win condition, know each other, and can communicate fr33ly. They are generally a second type of scum, although rarely they can be town-aligned. Instead of a kill, they can recruit players into the cult. There is generally a cult leader, who is in charge of recruiting.

FoS - Finger of Suspicion, writing someone's name in blue signifies a great deal of suspicion. It's kind of like a fake-vote, or the threat of a vote. Good for getting attention.

FTD - Failure to Deliver, also known as Toaster's #1 Scumtell. The act of promising to post more information at a later time, and then failing to do so. A very difficult action to justify as town, because it means you are either lazy or lying, it is therefore s33n as a pretty solid scumtell.

IC - Inexperienced Challenged, players who are too experienced to justify playing in a Beginner's Mafia, and act as mentors/guides for the Town or the Scum.

Lurking - Purposefully not posting, so that you have few or no posts that can be analyzed. Generally a good strategy for scum. However, has the danger of earning you prods, getting modkilled, or found out via Zathras' Lurkertracker. Lurking is different than simply being away or unavailable. A good way to tell if someone is lurking is to check their profile's last active time, and compare it to their last post.

LYLO - Lynch or Lose, a situation where Town only outnumbers Scum by a single person (e.g. 3 town vs. 2 scum). During LYLO, Town MUST lynch Scum or instantly lose.

Masons - A group of town-aligned players who know each other to be town-aligned. They can communicate with each other fr33ly.

MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, a situation where Town outnumbers Scum by two people (4 town vs. 2 scum). During MYLO, if Town lynches Town, Scum will win after night-killing town, making it 2 town vs. 2 scum, which is an instant scum win.

NL - No Lynch, to choose to end the day without lynching anyone and s33 if any information is revealed in the night.

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you

PFP - Posting From Phone (or Profession), throwing up a short post to prove you aren't lurking, when you are too busy at the time to make a more complete post.

PL - Policy Lynch, lynching someone for reasons other than scumminess. Variants are Lynch All Lurkers, Lynch All Liars, etc. Also s33: Org.

PPE - Pre-Post Edit, typically done when you go to either Preview or Post and notice that someone else has posted before you. PPE is shorthand for acknowledging the "Warning - You may wish to review your post" message.

RIA - Refuge in Audacity, acting really crazy or really scummy to make people think that you couldn't possibly be scum because of how crazy you are. This never works. Neither does sarcasm in general, really. If you want to be sarcastic, make it painfully obvious you are being sarcastic, with <sarcasm>fake sarcasm tags</sarcasm>. Even still, it's not a good idea, because Mafia is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Role - Also called Power Role, any special powers you have. Cops, doctors, roleblockers, and godfathers are examples of classic roles. Some roles are alignment-specific, some aren't, and some can be for any alignment.

Rolefishing - Any question or attempt to learn information about someone's role. Typically something done at the beginning of the game. Typically a scum move, because it is in scum's advantage to find and lynch powerful roles. Can be acceptable later in the game, or in special circumstances where it is beneficial for town to learn someone's role. The reason it is scummy is because the really powerful town roles want to stay hidden so they don't get lynched by scum, and bringing attention to them by rolefishing risks their secrecy.

RVS - Random Voting Stage, the early-early game, shortly after the game begins, where people randomly vote each other and ask each other different questions, trying to find any good reason to suspect someone.

Scum - Mafia, or someone who isn't aligned with the Town. The Informed Minority.

SK - Serial Killer, a third party role with a nightkill, and who is hostile to everyone.

Survivor - a third party role whose win condition requires that they be alive at the end of the game. Normal players can die and still win as long as their team as a whole wins, but a survivor must actually be alive at the end.

Third Party - an alignment that is independent of scum and town. Has a unique victory condition, and is typically a lone wolf type character.

Town - The anti-Scum. The uninformed majority.

Vanilla - Someone who doesn't have a power role. "Vanilla Town", "Vanilla Scum", etc.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

Quote from: Princess Bride

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

WoT - Wall of Text; a really really long post. Sometimes unavoidable, but generally you should try to k33p them to a minimum. Sometimes scum use them to s33m more active then they are.

Massclaim - When everyone starts roleclaiming, or saying they are a power role.

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or s33ms most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be s33n as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or s33ms reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be s33n supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

Notes:
-Renamed "Appearing Too Townie" because as it was, the name would encourage people to lynch good players, not scummy ones.
-Roles have been already rolled, so who gets to be what depends entirely on who joins when. Theoretically makes no difference to role distribution - just as random as ever.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 05:37:46 am

IN!

:I

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Shakerag on April 26, 2012, 09:08:10 am

Playing IC in?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 26, 2012, 11:34:10 am

Sorry about my lurking in BMXXXI (I think that was the one I was in).  I'll definately try to play this one better.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 26, 2012, 12:14:05 pm

Quote from: Darvi on April 26, 2012, 05:26:42 am

ICs:

• Come on Jim I know you want to.

No way, man. I'm still on my mafia vacation and enjoying it way too much to sign up for any games right now.

Quote from: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 05:37:46 am

IN!

:I

Dude, you're fine. You don't need another one of these.

The best way for you to learn now is to sharpen your skills against all the other players in the forum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Dr.Phibes on April 26, 2012, 12:26:04 pm

I am freakin, IN!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Toaster on April 26, 2012, 12:33:52 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on April 26, 2012, 12:14:05 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 05:37:46 am

IN!

:I

Dude, you're fine. You don't need another one of these.

The best way for you to learn now is to sharpen your skills against all the other players in the forum.

I agree- you're not going to learn anything against new players.  Throw in with the big boys.


Also, scum IC in.  Note I'll be out of town tomorrow and Saturday, so I won't have anything to say if the game starts before that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [0/7; 0/2; 0/1]
Post by: Darvi on April 26, 2012, 12:46:05 pm

I agree with Jim. About Tiruin I mean. Not about his not wanting to be an IC.

While you could do with improving your play it's nothing that can only be fixed with a BM. Regular games should do.

Also since nobody has objected way back when Shakerag asked if he could be an IC I guess he can have the spot.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [2/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Scelly9 on April 26, 2012, 02:54:12 pm

PTW

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [2/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2012, 02:55:39 pm

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 26, 2012, 02:54:12 pm

PTW

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [2/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: borno on April 26, 2012, 03:09:59 pm

IN.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 06:03:53 pm

I'll admit I'm a fair bit Intrigued.

Now I'm going to have to find an avatar, won't :I.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 06:55:48 pm

Alright then, thanks for the recommendation everyone!  :D

Good Blessings to all who participate this time!

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 06:03:53 pm

Now I'm going to have to find an avatar, won't :I.

Nope.  :P Avatars are not needed to play.

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 26, 2012, 02:54:12 pm

PTW

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2012, 02:55:39 pm

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 26, 2012, 02:54:12 pm

PTW

Won't you two want in?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 06:55:48 pm

Won't you two want in?

I could try being an IC if nobody else calls IC, but I'm not sure if I'd do a good job. I blasted through the last BM with pure logic and manipulation skills, but I'm probably severely lacking in experience.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Hapah on April 26, 2012, 07:45:05 pm

Fresh blood is IN.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 26, 2012, 08:00:14 pm

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 06:55:48 pm

Won't you two want in?

I could try being an IC if nobody else calls IC, but I'm not sure if I'd do a good job. I blasted through the last BM with pure logic and manipulation skills, but I'm probably severely lacking in experience.

You need more experience.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Karlito on April 26, 2012, 08:01:05 pm

I haven't played me any forum mafias since like the first few months after this board was created, so this would probably be a good opportunity to get back in to the game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Scelly9 on April 26, 2012, 08:16:08 pm

Eh, I'm taking a break.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 09:28:51 pm

Quote from: MagmaMcFry on April 26, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 06:55:48 pm

Won't you two want in?

I could try being an IC if nobody else calls IC, but I'm not sure if I'd do a good job. I blasted through the last BM with pure logic and manipulation skills, but I'm probably severely lacking in experience.

I'm still bitter about it.  :P

I just figured one last BM before I head out, as my logical analysis tends to become twisted around the smaller, less discernible details when scumhunting.

I can't be a replacement, can I?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 09:42:34 pm

Half of Mafia is the roleplaying, and I figure an avatar enhances the perspective of others.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 26, 2012, 09:56:16 pm

IN.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 26, 2012, 10:03:44 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 09:42:34 pm

Half of Mafia is the roleplaying, and I figure an avatar enhances the perspective of others.

If you're expecting roleplaying, you'll be very disappointed. It's not something we really do in this subforum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 10:05:22 pm

I think he meant by where the players are mostly seen.

But, yes. Mafia is serious business. Think of it like being in an area where everyone is guilty unless proven innocent, and the guilty will die out one by one, every day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 10:13:52 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on April 26, 2012, 10:03:44 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 09:42:34 pm

Half of Mafia is the roleplaying, and I figure an avatar enhances the perspective of others.

If you're expecting roleplaying, you'll be very disappointed. It's not something we really do in this subforum.

We have different definitions of Roleplaying. I was referring to my capacity and ability to express character; which, consciously or not, is partiality influenced by Name, Avatar, Quote, and Signature.

Plus I've been meaning to do this for a while.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jiokuy on April 26, 2012, 10:19:43 pm

Which in hindsight I should probably not call roleplaying.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [3/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2012, 10:20:45 pm

You can edit posts, just not in game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Shakerag on April 27, 2012, 02:46:00 pm

Hmm.  We just need another IC now, folks. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 28, 2012, 05:15:28 pm

Comeone guys.  We newbies need teachers.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 28, 2012, 05:35:35 pm

Not sure if I have enough experience to IC. If the mod/Jim thinks I do, I'll do it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 28, 2012, 05:43:44 pm

You'll do fine.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 28, 2012, 05:58:42 pm

Playing IC in, then.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jiokuy on April 28, 2012, 07:42:46 pm

Whew Mafia sure seem to win alot of the beginner matches. Best be wary watchers.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 28, 2012, 07:45:29 pm

The game favors the mafia when the town doesn't know how to hunt. It's nothing to worry about, since the whole point of a Beginner's Mafia is not to win or lose, but learn.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: I can has players? [7/7; 1/2; 1/1]
Post by: Darvi on April 29, 2012, 03:27:25 am

Aight then. Will start this on Monday.

Title: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on April 30, 2012, 01:07:47 am

One day the kittehs of the world have found out that all their ch33zburgers have b33n stolen.

"Oh noez our ch33zburgers haf b33n stolened!", Obvious Cat said.

"We haf to find teh bad kittehs who stealed zem and taek back our ch33zburgers!"

---

Day 1 has begun, and, barring extensions, will end on Thursday.

From now on, the IC's, Urist and Shakerag, will occasionally pipe in and give you some advice on how to play. If you want to post before one of them does, make sure you have read some other games before so you don't screw up because you don't even have a grasp on the basics.
You can be assured that any advice an IC gives has b33n made in good faith and is completely unbiased (Or should be, at least). Even if they flip scum, that is not a reason to completely disregard any advice they would make before or afterwards.
Conversely, they are still actual players, so treat them like that because they can still be scum. The exception to this is Toaster who is guarant33d to be scum but is not actually playing so don't waste your time voting him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:53 am

This is my teaching voice.

Welcome to Mafia. Town, your goal is to find and lynch the scum. That is your only goal, because it is your only way to win. Everything you do should be in pursuit of that goal. Conversely, scum, your goal is to pretend you're town long enough to kill off the actual town. You do that by acting like you're looking for scum.

Games usually start with the random voting stage (RVS). Pick a player, vote them, and ask them a question. Ideally your questions should be game-related. For instance:

Karlito, you mentioned that you had some previous mafia experience here. Care to give us some examples?

Jiokuy: If you were a doctor, who would you protect on the first night?

You can only vote one person at a time, but don't let that stop you from questioning anyone you please. The point of the RVS is to start discussion, which is helped along a bit if there are questions flying every which way.

As Darvi said, ICs are not guaranteed town, and should not be treated as such. Our advice, however, is given entirely in good faith - we're here to help you learn first and foremost.

Finally, to quote Jim:

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 15, 2011, 01:27:49 pm

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 30, 2012, 07:59:42 am

((What the hell, I'll take replace list))

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: zomara0292 on April 30, 2012, 08:06:15 am

((replace))

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

[Hello everyone!  My particular ICing voice for this game will be commentary enclosed in square brackets.  Urist Imiknorris has covered a lot of the good introductory points already.  But, for emphasis' sake, I'll repeat a few things.] 

[You can expect any comments from us in our IC voices to be completely objective.  As ICs, we are honor bound to be helpful and truthful in what we say to you as advice.  Our goal in this game is not to win, but to teach, so we may very well give advice that would be detrimental to ourselves in-game.] 

[Also, please realize that we are also players in this game as you are, and as scum roles were randomly determined, either of us, neither of us, or both of us could be scum.  Don't worry about lynching or NKing one of the ICs; we will give advice even if it has to be from the grave.]

[And, yeah, another quote from Jim, who happened to be IC in the beginner's games I started in.]

Quote from: Jim Groovester, patron saint of ICing

Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

[So, having said that, let's all get to playing.  This is my first time being an IC, so this will be a bit of a learning experience for all.]

Lord Allagon:  If you were a Godfather, would you try and draw suspicion on yourself in order to get inspected? 

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Dr. Phibes:  It's N1, and you're a town doctor.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

obolisk0430:  You are scum (hypothetically) and your partner is in danger of getting lynched.  Which scenario appeals to you more:  Bussing your scum partner and putting yourself in a more secure (read: appearing town-like) position for a longer game, or making a potentially risky fakeclaim to save your scum buddy and win the game right then and there?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

d

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 11:12:55 am

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

obolisk0430:  You are scum (hypothetically) and your partner is in danger of getting lynched.  Which scenario appeals to you more:  Bussing your scum partner and putting yourself in a more secure (read: appearing town-like) position for a longer game, or making a potentially risky fakeclaim to save your scum buddy and win the game right then and there?

I would bus them.  I have only ever played one mafia game, in which I was a vanilla townie.  I have no experience playing any power-roles, and therefore I have no confidence in my ability to fake-claim a cop.  Beyond that, if there is a real cop, I would certainly be caught, again, due to my lack of ability to pretend to be a cop.  By the same token, although in the BM I was in, several people, me included, lurked the game into a scum death, I still have some experience playing vanilla townie, and I figure that I would be better at pretending to be a townie for a longer game, especially if bussing my scum partner makes me look better.

Urist:  Suppose you're a cop.  One person has been agressively scum hunting, but doesn't always seem to have good reasons for their attacks.  Another person has been kind of active and helpful, but doesn't really give off any vibes one way or the other.  Another person is really scummy but may just be noob-town.  A fourth person has been lurking.  Which person do you inspect at night.

Shakerag:  Suppose you're a doctor.  One person has been agressivelly scum hunting, but doesn't always seem to have good reasons for their attacks.  Another person has been kind of active and helpful, but doesn't really give off any vibes one way or the other.  Another person is really scummy but may just be noob-town.  A fourth person has been lurking.  Which person do you protect at night.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on April 30, 2012, 11:40:28 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:53 am

Jiokuy: If you were a doctor, who would you protect on the first night?

Doctor: Given the general lack of information N1 I would protect A) if scum was lynched, the first player to non random vote him. or B) the second/third most aggressive/confidant player (If I understand correctly that protecting a Mafia=dead doc)

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Jiokuy: It's D2. You are a cop. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you investigate?

C) It is a trick question They're both scum. aggression alone is not a tell, but unwarrented levels of agression plus excessive use of falliacies to support claims can be. same with Lurking it can e a tell, but you should look at the time zones, and make sure they really are lurking, and not just away for a day.

@Dr Phibesit is N3 and you are a Roleblocker.
*A doctor has claimed, but that claim also saved him from a lynch.
*Your scum-pal claimed Cop and two other players are disagagreeing with him, one aggressively/firmly and one passivly tagging along.
*One of the other players claimed Vanilla, and is posting enough not avoid getting called out for lurking without making bold statements.
--Who do you Roleblock; Who do you kill?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 12:32:57 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 11:12:55 am

Urist:  Suppose you're a cop.  One person has been agressively scum hunting, but doesn't always seem to have good reasons for their attacks.  Another person has been kind of active and helpful, but doesn't really give off any vibes one way or the other.  Another person is really scummy but may just be noob-town.  A fourth person has been lurking.  Which person do you inspect at night.

I'd inspect the aggressive attacker - if they're town then they've got the right idea, and if they're scum I can stop them from trying to influence the rest into mislynching.

I'll toss a similar situation back at you, obolisk: You're a cop the night before 3 player LyLo. The living players are you, a chronic lurker (who has claimed doctor), a slightly scummy player who frequently jumps on bandwagons, and an aggressive but petty scumhunter who refuses to let go of anything that could be a slip. Who do you inspect?

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 30, 2012, 11:40:28 am

(If I understand correctly that protecting a Mafia=dead doc)

Not here.

Quote

aggression alone is not a tell, but unwarrented levels of agression plus excessive use of falliacies to support claims can be.

Aggressive scumhunting is a fairly reliable towntell - the trick is to figure out whether they're sincere in their efforts or are just looking for a justifiable mislynch.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 01:06:13 pm

Spent all my (brief, work is killing me) lunch in the Roguelike Mafia, will answer questions after I get off.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on April 30, 2012, 01:08:53 pm

Please spare us the details.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on April 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@borno: It's D2. You are a doctor. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you protect?
[/quote]
Last BM I was scum, so I would pick the aggressive player. If he/she is a Mafia, I would be wrong. However, If he/she is a Towny, then the Mafia would of missed a chance at knocking out an active player. But it also depends on who was killed D1.

obolisk0430, It is MYLO, and you are a Vanilla Towny. There is a New person to the sub forums, who is either Very nooby, or a scum. There is a player who actively scumhunts, an activelurker, and a lurker. Who do you vote?

Lord Allagon, It is D2, and you are the cop. You mislynched the first lynch, and one of your prime suspects was killed. Your first investigation turned up Towny. There is a very active player, but who isn't very good at scumhunting, an activelurker, and there is a suspicous lurker who turned up Towny. Who do you vote for? And who do you investigate?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 03:49:59 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 11:12:55 am

Shakerag:  Suppose you're a doctor.  One person has been agressivelly scum hunting, but doesn't always seem to have good reasons for their attacks.  Another person has been kind of active and helpful, but doesn't really give off any vibes one way or the other.  Another person is really scummy but may just be noob-town.  A fourth person has been lurking.  Which person do you protect at night.

I assume you mean those are the players who are remaining after day end?  Unless I have a good reason otherwise, I typically pick the most aggressive and/or strongest player to protect, so I'd likely target the first person in your example. 

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Lord Allagon:  If you were a Godfather, would you try and draw suspicion on yourself in order to get inspected?

No. Maybe if I had more experience, but if I tried to do it now I'd probably fail and discover myself to the town.

That's interesting wording, Lord Allagon.  You seem to be responding not in the context of my hypothetical situation, but as if you actually *are* a godfather in this game.  Consider my RVS vote on you to now be a lynch vote, scum. 

[Typically, during the RVS phase, when a person whom you are voting on answers your question to your satisfaction you unvote them.  However, if you decide to keep your vote on that person because his or her response is scummy, it is good to clarify why you're not unvoting.]

[Additionally, the answers to RVS questions are often pretty dull, and not much information is gleaned from them.  I usually end up looking more at *how* the player answered the question, not what they answered it with.]


Jiokuy:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and know who has it (or if no one does) which role would you pick and why?

Urist Imiknorris:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and whoever had it died (or know that no one had that particular role in event of no death), which role would you pick and why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on April 30, 2012, 04:01:51 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 03:49:59 pm

Jiokuy:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and know who has it (or if no one does) which role would you pick and why?

In this game (e.g. BM and not Mafia in general), I would want to know who the cop was. Knowing who the doctor is doesn't really help me all that much, but the ability to trust that a player really is a cop is invaluable. The cop is who helps inform the uninformed majority.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 04:54:45 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 03:49:59 pm

Urist Imiknorris:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and whoever had it died (or know that no one had that particular role in event of no death), which role would you pick and why?

Godfather. In a game like this, a godfather who gets inspected and isn't overly scummy is pretty much a guaranteed scum victory.

Hapah, if you were scum, how would you determine who to night-kill?

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@borno: It's D2. You are a doctor. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you protect?

Last BM I was scum, so I would pick the aggressive player. If he/she is a Mafia, I would be wrong. However, If he/she is a Towny, then the Mafia would of missed a chance at knocking out an active player. But it also depends on who was killed D1.

The preview button is your friend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Response time! If I missed your question, just let me know.

Darvi: Will do!

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Neither. They can both be useful, in their own way. The player aggressively attacking anything that moves muddies the waters, and as far as I'm concerned he's doing the Scum a favor. A lurker isn't hunting scum, and it's REAL hard to find them if not you're looking. As an added bonus, he'll look a little scummy because he's lurking: He might not be a hard lynch later in the game. If I had to choose one, though, I guess I'd NK the lurker.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 04:54:45 pm

Hapah, if you were scum, how would you determine who to night-kill?

If you have a solid idea that someone is a power role (see Shake's question), them. Otherwise, kill the really analytical types. You want to be able to nudge the town towards lynching who you want, and some person mucking it all up with reasonable arguments just won't do.

Shakerag: Which is worse for the town: A townie that drops scumtells/noobtells but is okay at scumhunting, or one that doesn't scumhunt much but doesn't drop many tells? Why?

Urist Imiknorris: If you are scum, and your newbie scumbuddy is dropping tells like crazy despite your guidance, what do you do?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 05:52:33 pm

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

What if that person is jumpy because he's your scumbuddy? Then what would you do?

Quote

You want to be able to nudge the town towards lynching who you want, and some person mucking it all up with reasonable arguments just won't do.

But reasonable arguments are one of the scum's best weapons during the day. It's harder to suspect someone if you find yourself agreeing with their cases.

Quote

Urist Imiknorris: If you are scum, and your newbie scumbuddy is dropping tells like crazy despite your guidance, what do you do?

I'd probably tell him how he's doing it wrong in-thread (disguised as an accusation and accompanied by a vote) and hope he shapes up before I have to lynch him. If he doesn't, I'd "help" him into the noose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 05:52:33 pm

What if that person is jumpy because he's your scumbuddy? Then what would you do?

That's rough. You shouldn't spook him yourself, if you've laid out the plan in scumchat. If it's still RVS, I guess all you can do is keep the conversation moving, since it seems people have really short memories in the RVS days. You definately can't just ignore it, though: I guess you'd make some witty remark about how jumpy they are and then move the conversation on to the next person.

Quote

But reasonable arguments are one of the scum's best weapons during the day. It's harder to suspect someone if you find yourself agreeing with their cases.

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers. You need to be able to come up with reasonable arguments of your own as scum, but it helps if the town's arguments are generally weaker.

And I like your answer to my question, it gives you a certain degree of distance if things do go south.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 08:04:06 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

I see what you did there. Our conversation was about what I would do as scum, and I stand by my comment.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:18:17 pm

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm

obolisk0430, It is MYLO, and you are a Vanilla Towny. There is a New person to the sub forums, who is either Very nooby, or a scum. There is a player who actively scumhunts, an activelurker, and a lurker. Who do you vote?

No lynch.  I'm not sure who would be scum in that mess, but I would bet on the activelurker, unless I feel that the scumhunter's claims are mostly bullshit.  Regardless, No lynch, and wait to see who dies would be better than lynching and having a higher chance of messing up.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 12:32:57 pm

I'll toss a similar situation back at you, obolisk: You're a cop the night before 3 player LyLo. The living players are you, a chronic lurker (who has claimed doctor), a slightly scummy player who frequently jumps on bandwagons, and an aggressive but petty scumhunter who refuses to let go of anything that could be a slip. Who do you inspect?

I'm not sure.  If the scum is the lurker, he'll have to suddenly become active at LyLo if he wants to win for his team, and he'll face flak for that anyway.  If the scumhunter is scum, I figure he would probably kill me or the bandwagoner, and try and count on either the lurker lurking the vote into a tie or him being able to concince the lurker based on his activeness.  If the bandwagoner were scum, I figure he would either kill me or the scum-hunter, and hope the lurker lurks or that he can convince the lurker.  For some reason, I'm leaning to the bandwagoner, but that's probably just because he looks a bit more scummy than the scumhunter on face value.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:19:34 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

Urist, why are you talking peoples quotes out of context?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:20:19 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:19:34 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

Urist, why are you talking peoples quotes out of context?

Damnit.  Unvote.
Sorry Urist, that was supposed to be blue.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 09:29:44 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:20:19 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:19:34 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

Urist, why are you talking peoples quotes out of context?

Damnit.  Unvote.
Sorry Urist, that was supposed to be blue.

Why does that matter this early? Unless there's a lynch-train going that I don't see.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 09:46:35 pm

Hapah, obolisk: My brain keeps parsing it as a declaration of intent.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 04:54:45 pm

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@borno: It's D2. You are a doctor. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you protect?

Last BM I was scum, so I would pick the aggressive player. If he/she is a Mafia, I would be wrong. However, If he/she is a Towny, then the Mafia would of missed a chance at knocking out an active player. But it also depends on who was killed D1.

The preview button is your friend.

Oops.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:18:17 pm

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm

obolisk0430, It is MYLO, and you are a Vanilla Towny. There is a New person to the sub forums, who is either Very nooby, or a scum. There is a player who actively scumhunts, an activelurker, and a lurker. Who do you vote?

No lynch.  I'm not sure who would be scum in that mess, but I would bet on the activelurker, unless I feel that the scumhunter's claims are mostly bullshit.  Regardless, No lynch, and wait to see who dies would be better than lynching and having a higher chance of messing up.

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

Ha, I read the very first bit of your question and thought you were REALLY jumping the gun on calling me scum.

Random, if those are the only two options and I don't think the lurker is trying to fly low with a power role. Lurkers aren't a bad thing for scum, it's hard for them to find you if they don't go looking.

I can't help but notice your question is very similar to one I answered already, borno. Why is that? Did you miss it? I thought I had already made my night actions (and the reasoning behind them) as a scum reasonably clear.

borno: Answer the two questions posed to me, if you would.

Q1.)

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Q2.) The question you asked me (quoted at the top of this post).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 01, 2012, 03:30:34 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia on D1. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

Ha, I read the very first bit of your question and thought you were REALLY jumping the gun on calling me scum.  Random, if those are the only two options and I don't think the lurker is trying to fly low with a power role. Lurkers aren't a bad thing for scum, it's hard for them to find you if they don't go looking.  I can't help but notice your question is very similar to one I answered already, borno. Why is that? Did you miss it? I thought I had already made my night actions (and the reasoning behind them) as a scum reasonably clear.  borno: Answer the two questions posed to me, if you would.  Q1.)

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Q2.) The question you asked me (quoted at the top of this post).

Oops, forgot to add something. And I must of not seen that post. Also, it's called RVS for a reason, and that is my reason for voting for you.  Q1) From my (Small) experience as scum, I have learned that it is be a good strategy to NK the active player. That way he/she won't call attention to you. But it also depends on how competent the person is. If the lurker's post have been extremely smart and logical, it may be the safe option to vote for him/her. But usually that is not the case.  Q2) What would the point be in answering my own question? I will, if you insist, but only after you answer the revised version.

Dr Phibes: You haven't contributed so far. Here's a question: You are a cop on MYLO. The town has decided to call a No-Lynch. There a very scummy person (Although it may just be Newbieness) who is actively scumhunting, and one from a person who hasn't contributed to scumhunting, but hasn't dropped any scumtells either. Who do you inspect?

Karlito: You haven't contributed so far. Here's a question: You are mafia on LYLO. You dropped a major scumtell, and now everyone's on your back. Do you accept your fate? If not, what do you do to get the heat off you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2012, 10:05:52 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 30, 2012, 04:01:51 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 03:49:59 pm

Jiokuy:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and know who has it (or if no one does) which role would you pick and why?

In this game (e.g. BM and not Mafia in general), I would want to know who the cop was. Knowing who the doctor is doesn't really help me all that much, but the ability to trust that a player really is a cop is invaluable. The cop is who helps inform the uninformed majority.

True, but players putting too much faith in cops is why we have godfather roles [and millers, but that's in non-beginner games].  Why would you want to know who the cop is over who the godfather and/or roleblocker, Jiokuy? 

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Shakerag: Which is worse for the town: A townie that drops scumtells/noobtells but is okay at scumhunting, or one that doesn't scumhunt much but doesn't drop many tells? Why?

Arguably both are bad for town.  The former is prone to get mislynched for thier *tells, and the latter is prone to get mislynched for active lurking.  If I had to pick, I'd say the second one, because at least the first player is generating activity via scumhunting. 
[I would personally disagree with your answer to Lord Allagon.  As scum, NKing the lurker over the agressive player would be, I think, a bad move.  Said aggressive player could end up targeting you or your scumteam and one of you could end up cracking under the pressure.  Better to remove that person so one of the scumteam can move in as "the aggressive player" and direct the rest of the town.]

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:18:17 pm

No lynch.  I'm not sure who would be scum in that mess, but I would bet on the activelurker, unless I feel that the scumhunter's claims are mostly bullshit.  Regardless, No lynch, and wait to see who dies would be better than lynching and having a higher chance of messing up.

[I can't quote a source at present, but I have heard it stated that unless you have a confirmed scum to lynch during MYLO, the safest bet is to no lynch and bring the game to LYLO.  Roles in non-beginner games like vigilante, cult, etc. can make a situation that looks like MYLO actually *be* LYLO, however.]


[borno:  If you're reposting something for formatting issues, please indicate that a little more clearly with something like "Reposting with better formatting:" right before it, and give a little space after the 'repost'.  Your question to Hapah looks like it is in reference somehow to your reposted post.  Just makes reading a little easier on us :)]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on May 01, 2012, 11:08:17 am

Hapah[1]: borno
Phibes[1]: Jiokuy
borno[1]: L.Allagon
L.Allagon[1]: Shakerag
Karlito[1]: Urist

Not voting: obolisk, Phibes
No Lynch:

Extend:
Shorten:

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:25:46 pm

Mod: Are we missing two people on that votecount?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on May 01, 2012, 12:29:33 pm

They're not being voted to so no.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2012, 12:30:15 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:25:46 pm

Mod: Are we missing two people on that votecount?

Indeed.  Hapah and Karlito are missing.  They should be tacked on to the Not Voting list?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Darvi on May 01, 2012, 12:32:11 pm

Oh that kind of missing. <_<

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 01, 2012, 12:32:21 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 01, 2012, 10:05:52 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on April 30, 2012, 04:01:51 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 03:49:59 pm

Jiokuy:  If you could pick one of the power roles in this game and know who has it (or if no one does) which role would you pick and why?

In this game (e.g. BM and not Mafia in general), I would want to know who the cop was. Knowing who the doctor is doesn't really help me all that much, but the ability to trust that a player really is a cop is invaluable. The cop is who helps inform the uninformed majority.

True, but players putting too much faith in cops is why we have godfather roles [and millers, but that's in non-beginner games].  Why would you want to know who the cop is over who the godfather and/or roleblocker, Jiokuy? 

Yes that is very true. I had not considered Godfathers, they are by and far the most valuable to know. But I also feel that knowing who the godfather is would remove the fun of hunting them down.

e.g. If I know who the cop is I might be able to bait the Godfather with the cop, then again who knows. Godfathers are unusual.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Lord Allagon on May 01, 2012, 05:25:36 pm

MOD: I'm sorry, but something in real life came up and I won't be able to play. Requesting a replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia on D1. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

borno, that's a weak edit, man. You added a whole four letters. It suggests that you aren't so much concerned with the answer as making sure you're pointing enough fingers. If you missed it the first time, that's cool, it happens. If you wanted to ask an actually DIFFERENT question, I'm cool with that too. But what you did, with the lazy edit and not answering my question? It doesn't smell right to me.

Shakerag[IC]: It's not ideal. I'd much rather kill neither, but if I had to go one, I'll take the lurker. I'm not convinced there's a right or wrong answer, it probably depends on what the scum schemes are.

obolisk0430: Do you prefer playing Town or Maf? Much more importantly, why?

Lord Phibes and Karlito, where are you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Karlito on May 01, 2012, 06:34:22 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:53 am

Karlito, you mentioned that you had some previous mafia experience here. Care to give us some examples?

I managed to dig up this ancient thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32387.0), which was probably the most exciting game I played. I'm sure there's been a lot of evolution of play in the three years since then, like doing this question thing on day one as opposed to just voting for no lynch. I like it.

Quote from: borno on May 01, 2012, 03:30:34 am

Karlito: You haven't contributed so far. Here's a question: You are mafia on LYLO. You dropped a major scumtell, and now everyone's on your back. Do you accept your fate? If not, what do you do to get the heat off you?

Ideally, sow as much confusion as possible. I doubt I'm deceptive enough to wriggle out of a lynch for more than another turn, so the best thing would be to try and transfer some suspicion onto a townie or two. Realistically, such shenanigans depend a lot on my available time and energy in real life. If I've got a lab report due the next day, I'd probably just roll over and die  :).

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Karlito, where are you?

Right here! Give me a few minutes to read through the thread again more carefully and then I'll put up another post with questions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:41:55 pm

Karlito: Good to see you're still alive! I was afraid of one person requesting replacement and two more going MIA: It'll kill a game real fast.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 01, 2012, 08:50:50 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

obolisk0430: Do you prefer playing Town or Maf? Much more importantly, why?

I have no idea.  I'm town right now, and I've only ever played one other game, in which I was also town.  That game pretty much died due to everyone lurking.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 09:29:44 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:20:19 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on April 30, 2012, 09:19:34 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on April 30, 2012, 07:56:06 pm

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 07:48:40 pm

Oh, definitely. But I want to remove the real town thinkers.

You do?

Urist, why are you talking peoples quotes out of context?

Damnit.  Unvote.
Sorry Urist, that was supposed to be blue.

Why does that matter this early? Unless there's a lynch-train going that I don't see.

I switched it because I honestly think it's a bullshit reason to vote someone, and it seemed to close to an I'm voting you because of X as opposed to a random vote.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 09:16:15 pm

Fair enough answer on both points, I guess.

Though don't hesitate to vote someone if you have a reason! (though you're right, taking quotes out of context is a weak reason. It is RVS though, everything is weak).

And nobody asked, but I don't really like the RVS in general. You do have to get the conversation moving, sure, but I wish people were a little tighter with their votes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 01, 2012, 11:13:32 pm

Obolisk: At this stage of the game that's not really a bullshit reason.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 01, 2012, 08:50:50 pm

it seemed too close to an I'm voting you because of X as opposed to a random vote.

Ideally, once you start getting actual suspicions, you'd stop random voting and start pursuing them.

Dr. Philbes, what did you learn from the last game?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 02, 2012, 12:11:23 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia on D1. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

borno, that's a weak edit, man. You added a whole four letters. It suggests that you aren't so much concerned with the answer as making sure you're pointing enough fingers. If you missed it the first time, that's cool, it happens. If you wanted to ask an actually DIFFERENT question, I'm cool with that too. But what you did, with the lazy edit and not answering my question? It doesn't smell right to me.

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me. What I meant by that edit was asking if your NK would change if it was D1, no reason for an OMGUS, Scum. Every post you make sounds more like someone is telling you what to do. Toaster? Or your scumbuddy?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Quote

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me.

It's RVS. I don't think that I need a reason. Even if I did, it appears you are more guilty of this than me: You voted obol and myself with nothing more substantial than what I have on you.

Quote

What I meant by that edit was asking if your NK would change if it was D1, no reason for an OMGUS, Scum.

No, it wouldn't. I feel the first question covered my general blueprint as scum for all days (every game is different, of course, but a rough plan is always good to have. The plan should guide you, though, not control you). And I really don't think my post on you qualified as an OMGUS, I just think you look a little scummier than everyone else.

Quote

Every post you make sounds more like someone is telling you what to do. Toaster? Or your scumbuddy?

Now this, this looks like an OMGUS to me, though I'd like to know what other people think. You're saying that not only am I scum, I'm incompetent scum: I can't even figure out what to say on my own.

Everyone: What is your opinion on mine and borno's little spat?

Karlito: If you've had a chance to catch up with the thread, what are your impressions so far?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 02, 2012, 09:45:12 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 01, 2012, 12:32:21 pm

e.g. If I know who the cop is I might be able to bait the Godfather with the cop, then again who knows. Godfathers are unusual.

"Bait" the Godfather? 

Quote from: Karlito on May 01, 2012, 06:34:22 pm

Quote from: borno on May 01, 2012, 03:30:34 am

Karlito: You haven't contributed so far. Here's a question: You are mafia on LYLO. You dropped a major scumtell, and now everyone's on your back. Do you accept your fate? If not, what do you do to get the heat off you?

Ideally, sow as much confusion as possible. I doubt I'm deceptive enough to wriggle out of a lynch for more than another turn, so the best thing would be to try and transfer some suspicion onto a townie or two. Realistically, such shenanigans depend a lot on my available time and energy in real life. If I've got a lab report due the next day, I'd probably just roll over and die  :).

[I'd like to take this opportunity to reinforce one of the lines at the top of this thread.  "Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!"  If you roll over and die, under any circumstance, then you're not helping your team win.  I have certainly seen players be near lynch and manage to turn things around by playing strong from that point on.  If you give up, you'll never know if you could have turned things around.]

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:41:55 pm

Karlito: Good to see you're still alive! I was afraid of one person requesting replacement and two more going MIA: It'll kill a game real fast.

[It's my opinion that active players not posting is what kills a game more often.  Remember:  Town needs to post (scumhunt) to root out the scum.  Scum needs to post to look like town and avoid getting lynched.  Both sides need to be making with the content to win.]

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 09:16:15 pm

And nobody asked, but I don't really like the RVS in general. You do have to get the conversation moving, sure, but I wish people were a little tighter with their votes.

[You certainly wouldn't be the first to have that opinion.  People have tried some alternatives to RVS to start the game, but it's generally run this way.]

Quote from: borno on May 02, 2012, 12:11:23 am

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me. What I meant by that edit was asking if your NK would change if it was D1, no reason for an OMGUS, Scum. Every post you make sounds more like someone is telling you what to do. Toaster? Or your scumbuddy?

[Definitions may differ depending on who you ask, but I'd technically not call that an OMGUS.  If your vote wasn't an RVS vote, then perhaps.]

Quote from: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Everyone: What is your opinion on mine and borno's little spat?

Meh.  [Don't look to everyone else for approval.  If you think you've found scum, then press on!  If you think he's town, then go after someone else.  Everyone else will (or should) "tell" you what they think by going after you, your target, or someone else.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Dr.Phibes on May 02, 2012, 03:29:32 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 01, 2012, 11:13:32 pm

Obolisk: At this stage of the game that's not really a bullshit reason.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 01, 2012, 08:50:50 pm

it seemed too close to an I'm voting you because of X as opposed to a random vote.

Ideally, once you start getting actual suspicions, you'd stop random voting and start pursuing them.

Dr. Philbes, what did you learn from the last game?

That i shouldnt draw my conslusions to fast. How on earth is that a reason to vote someone for?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Dr.Phibes on May 02, 2012, 03:36:53 pm

Quote from: borno on May 01, 2012, 03:30:34 am

Dr Phibes: You haven't contributed so far. Here's a question: You are a cop on MYLO. The town has decided to call a No-Lynch. There a very scummy person (Although it may just be Newbieness) who is actively scumhunting, and one from a person who hasn't contributed to scumhunting, but hasn't dropped any scumtells either. Who do you inspect?

The one who is not contributing, since he havent done anything it would be impossible to know if he was scummy. So i would prolly question the lurker.

Sorry, have been a bit busy, but i can be semi-active know. Going to look through the thread now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 03, 2012, 12:51:30 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Quote

Every post you make sounds more like someone is telling you what to do. Toaster? Or your scumbuddy?

Now this, this looks like an OMGUS to me, though I'd like to know what other people think. You're saying that not only am I scum, I'm incompetent scum: I can't even figure out what to say on my own.

Where did I say you were incompetent scum? Even if you are competent, toaster is even more.

Quote from: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Quote

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me.

It's RVS. I don't think that I need a reason. Even if I did, it appears you are more guilty of this than me: You voted obol and myself with nothing more substantial than what I have on you.

I interpreted what you said as a vote against me just because I did a 'Bad' edit. Also, my votes on Obolisk and you had even less substance, because they were RVS votes. I also assumed that you had already voted for someone else, and that it wasn't random.

Also, Extend. I want to see how Hapah and I's little argument turns out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 03, 2012, 09:28:41 am

Dr. Philbes:

Quote from: Dr.Phibes on May 02, 2012, 03:29:32 pm

How on earth is that a reason to vote someone for?

Because voting someone for pressure is a thing that can be done. Also, early on in the game, there may not be much evidence to support any vote.

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Quote

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me.

It's RVS. I don't think that I need a reason. Even if I did, it appears you are more guilty of this than me: You voted obol and myself with nothing more substantial than what I have on you.

The point of RVS is to generate discussion so that people can start voting and scumhunting based on actual reasons. Once that starts happening, the RVS is pretty much over. So why didn't you think you needed a reason?

Quote

Everyone: What is your opinion on mine and borno's little spat?

That depends. What's your opinion on borno's alignment?

Jiokuy, obolisk: Why aren't you voting? Who do you suspect at this point?

Karlito:

Quote from: Karlito on May 01, 2012, 06:34:22 pm

Give me a few minutes to read through the thread again more carefully and then I'll put up another post with questions.

Whatever happened to this?

Shakerag: Are you just going to let your vote sit on Lord Allagon?

Mod: Please prod Jiokuy, Karlito, and obolisk. Also, what's your policy on votes made by people who are up for replacement? (i.e. Are you still counting Lord Allagon's vote?)

Everyone: Post more. Inactivity is one of the major killers of Beginners' Mafias, and makes it much easier for scum to win.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 03, 2012, 09:29:40 am

EBWOP: Extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 03, 2012, 10:14:34 am

Unvote

Well both Urist and borno are a bit suspicious. The most recent spat nonwithstanding. There has not been anything that really shouts oh look at me. Iwas mostly watching to see how it would  play out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 03, 2012, 11:28:30 am

Quote from: Karlito on May 01, 2012, 06:34:22 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Karlito, where are you?

Right here! Give me a few minutes to read through the thread again more carefully and then I'll put up another post with questions.

Karlito.  Dude.  This was two days ago.  Where the hell are you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 03, 2012, 11:40:33 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 03, 2012, 09:28:41 am

Shakerag: Are you just going to let your vote sit on Lord Allagon?

Yes, until he Oh, derp, forgot he was up for replacement.  unvote


Extend.  [Activity, everyone.  You need more of it.  Don't let this extend go to waste.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 03, 2012, 10:14:34 am

Unvote

Well both Urist and borno are a bit suspicious. The most recent spat nonwithstanding. There has not been anything that really shouts oh look at me. Iwas mostly watching to see how it would  play out.

[There is something important missing from your post.  Reasons.  Voting someone because you were called out for not voting can and likely will be looked at as scummy, *if* you don't have a good reason for voting that person.  Also, if there's nothing that shouts out at you, maybe you could try some scumhunting.  Guess what sitting back and watching something play out would likely be seen as?]

Also, I asked you a question, Jiokuy.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 03, 2012, 11:28:30 am

Quote from: Karlito on May 01, 2012, 06:34:22 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Karlito, where are you?

Right here! Give me a few minutes to read through the thread again more carefully and then I'll put up another post with questions.

Karlito.  Dude.  This was two days ago.  Where the hell are you?

[You may want to investigate some leads into more active players while you wait for a response.]


[Which leads me into a good bit of advice for everyone.  Make sure your posts aren't just comprised of answers to other people's questions.  Yes, you have to respond if you're being asked, but if you don't initiate any questioning/scumhunting of your own then you're not helping to find scum.  And if you're scum doing that, then you're not doing a very good job of trying to look like town.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 03, 2012, 12:55:08 pm

Forgive me if the formatting is a little janky.

Spoiler: Urist (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 03, 2012, 09:28:41 am

Hapah:

Quote from: Hapah on May 02, 2012, 09:25:15 am

Quote

I'm having trouble with my wording, but that's no reason to vote for me.

It's RVS. I don't think that I need a reason. Even if I did, it appears you are more guilty of this than me: You voted obol and myself with nothing more substantial than what I have on you.

The point of RVS is to generate discussion so that people can start voting and scumhunting based on actual reasons. Once that starts happening, the RVS is pretty much over. So why didn't you think you needed a reason?

I should have been clearer. That line as a whole was supposed to be something along the lines of "So you can vote me and obol for whatever you'd like, but as soon as I question you for anything I need one." I readily admit my reason for voting him (his weak edit) is very weak, but it's Day 1: Barring some masterwork-quality scumslip, you've got to work with what you're given.

And really, I don't know about borno's alignment. I saw what I think is a scumslip, and I'm basing my vote on that. If someone elses makes a scumslip, I'm examine their posts too. There's probably another slip or two that I'll see if I stare at the thread long enough, but I haven't seen them yet.

borno: Good response, see my answers to Urist. If there's a question in your latest post, just let me know.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 03, 2012, 07:07:42 pm

Jiokuy: Why does Urist look suspicious to you? (S)he's ruffling some feathers, sure, but you've got to do that to catch people. What do you see?

And yeah, where the heck is everyone?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 04, 2012, 12:01:13 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 03, 2012, 07:07:42 pm

And yeah, where the heck is everyone?

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 03, 2012, 09:28:41 am

Everyone: Post more. Inactivity is one of the major killers of Beginners' Mafias, and makes it much easier for scum to win.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 03, 2012, 11:40:33 am

Extend.  [Activity, everyone.  You need more of it.  Don't let this extend go to waste.]

I can only post a few times a day, and I'm also going away for the weekends.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 03, 2012, 10:14:34 am

Unvote

Well both Urist and borno are a bit suspicious. The most recent spat nonwithstanding. There has not been anything that really shouts oh look at me. Iwas mostly watching to see how it would  play out.

Jiokuy,Like what Shakerag said. What are your reasons for suddenly jumping on my bandwagon?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 04, 2012, 08:39:34 am

Unvote. Fair enough.

Hapah and borno: Could you sum up why you're voting each other?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 04, 2012, 08:52:07 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 04, 2012, 08:39:34 am

Hapah and borno: Could you sum up why you're voting each other?

Sure. I'm voting for borno because he's SCUM!!!!!11oneoneeleven

(kidding, kidding).

Seriously though, I think he's only interested in getting questions out there, and not so much concerned with what the answers are as looking like he's scumhunting. He asked me a question that I had (more or less) already been asked, and then put a very small edit on it that didn't really change it at all once I pointed this out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:07:30 am

Sorry about that. It is exam week and I have been making most of my posts after the exams. suffice to say I am
"burned out". So I will be trying to make most of my posts in the morning now.

Both Urist and Borno are playing aggressive. This by it's self is a good thing, but often a scum will tend to hide in the top 2-3.
It is really all I have to go on atm. I suppose it is time to chum the waters.

I voted Borno to keep the conflict balanced, If all of our votes crowd onto one wagon there is a very high possibility of D1 ending with 7 votes on one person (who has a 1/9 chance, tops of being scum. If I can keep the sides balanced it will escalate further, and a real tell might show up.

Unfortunantly I still cannot think of any good questions to get the topic moving.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:10:10 am

It is a weak response, but really, I'm playing this match to get a feel for how to respond to tells, and It's D1, THERE ARE NO TELLS, yet; or i'm just noob-blind.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 04, 2012, 10:46:19 am

...Jiokuy.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:07:30 am

Both Urist and Borno are playing aggressive. This by it's self is a good thing, but often a scum will tend to hide in the top 2-3. It is really all I have to go on atm. I suppose it is time to chum the waters.

So borno and I are suspicious because we're scumhunting.

No. Just no. (link) (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie)

Quote

I voted Borno to keep the conflict balanced, If all of our votes crowd onto one wagon there is a very high possibility of D1 ending with 7 votes on one person

So consensus is a bad thing?

Quote

(who has a 1/9 chance, tops of being scum).

How did you get that number?

Quote

If I can keep the sides balanced it will escalate further, and a real tell might show up.

But until you voted Hapah and borno were tied for votes. How is breaking a tie "keeping the sides balanced?"

---

Unofficial votecount:

borno: Hapah, Jiokuy, Lord Allagon
Hapah: borno
Karlito: obolisk0430
Jiokuy: Shakerag, Urist Imiknorris

Not Voting: Dr. Philbes, Karlito
People needing prods: Darvi, Dr. Philbes, Darvi, Karlito, Darvi

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 04, 2012, 11:06:34 am

[Activity, everyone.  Let's see some more posting.  You signed up to play this game, so play.  the.  game.  If you don't feel like you have any leads, start making them.  Read through the thread, question people about thier responses or how they responded.  Applying pressure can sometimes get people to crack or panic.  Being active and aggressive is what catches scum and makes scum look like town so as to not be discovered.  It's in both parties interest to be as productively active as possible.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:07:30 am

Sorry about that. It is exam week and I have been making most of my posts after the exams. suffice to say I am
"burned out". So I will be trying to make most of my posts in the morning now.

Both Urist and Borno are playing aggressive. This by it's self is a good thing, but often a scum will tend to hide in the top 2-3.
It is really all I have to go on atm. I suppose it is time to chum the waters.

I voted Borno to keep the conflict balanced, If all of our votes crowd onto one wagon there is a very high possibility of D1 ending with 7 votes on one person (who has a 1/9 chance, tops of being scum. If I can keep the sides balanced it will escalate further, and a real tell might show up.

Unfortunantly I still cannot think of any good questions to get the topic moving.

[Generally speaking, we want to see at minimum one decently-sized, content laden post per player per RL day.  More is obviously better.  Some of us have other obligations; that's fine.]
[Again, being aggressive isn't a scumtell.  That's the "being too towny" fallacy.]
[I'm not sure what you are trying to get at in your third paragraph.  If you think someone is scum, you vote for them regardless of any bandwagon.  If you want to put pressure on someone, a vote often helps to that end.  Voting to keep a conflict balanced isn't going to achieve anything.  If you want to get some scumtells, then put the thumbscrews on someone until either they show up, or you feel the person is town.  Waiting and watching won't achieve that, and only serves to make you look scummy for being passive.]

PPE:  Goddamnit, Urist. 

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:10:10 am

It is a weak response, but really, I'm playing this match to get a feel for how to respond to tells, and It's D1, THERE ARE NO TELLS, yet; or i'm just noob-blind.

[Start by looking over posts that aren't strictly RVS Q and A.  Do you find yourself thinking "why did he ask that" or "why did he respond in that way"?  Post it.  If you really don't get any thoughts from those posts, go back to the RVS posts.  Read them over, make note if you think anything odd.  You should be able to get something to start with from that.]


[Which leads me to think of another general point.  Don't be afraid to post a "dumb" question.  Don't get caught up worrying about making mistakes.  You will make mistakes.  That's why this is a learning game.  And that's why Urist Imiknorris and I are here.  There's more emphasis on learning over winning here, and you can't learn if you don't post.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 04, 2012, 12:39:13 pm

Unvote since karlito is still not doing anything.

After re-reading the whole Hapah-Borno thing, I think Hapah looks suspicious.  His vote was originally placed on Borno from this.

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 06:29:06 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia on D1. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

borno, that's a weak edit, man. You added a whole four letters. It suggests that you aren't so much concerned with the answer as making sure you're pointing enough fingers. If you missed it the first time, that's cool, it happens. If you wanted to ask an actually DIFFERENT question, I'm cool with that too. But what you did, with the lazy edit and not answering my question? It doesn't smell right to me.

This is bullshit reasoning.  I don't see his quote change thing as anything more than a lazy edit. 
Hapah's latest posts regarding this Borno thing are these two.

Quote from: Hapah on May 03, 2012, 12:55:08 pm

-snip-
borno: Good response, see my answers to Urist. If there's a question in your latest post, just let me know.

Quote from: Hapah on May 04, 2012, 08:52:07 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 04, 2012, 08:39:34 am

Hapah and borno: Could you sum up why you're voting each other?

Sure. I'm voting for borno because he's SCUM!!!!!11oneoneeleven

(kidding, kidding).

Seriously though, I think he's only interested in getting questions out there, and not so much concerned with what the answers are as looking like he's scumhunting. He asked me a question that I had (more or less) already been asked, and then put a very small edit on it that didn't really change it at all once I pointed this out.

What the hell is this crap?  When you put your vote on him, you said it was because of him making a lazy edit and not answering your questions.  He then answers your questions, and you even say it was a good response!  But you keep the vote on him, even though he just cleared out half of your reason. 
You should try harder at being less a obvious scum, scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 04, 2012, 01:20:34 pm

obolisk0430: If you think my reason for voting borno is bullshit, that's fine. You and he both can vote me, or anyone else, for whatever reason you'd like. I'm voting him because of (what I see as) a weak scumtell. I liked that his answer laid out why he voted (instead of the normal "He's scum get him!" that you see so often, where figuring out what they're thinking is like pulling teeth), but it doesn't make his scumtell go away. And you get the FoS because of the below (I had your name in front of both, but it looked janky).

Where did I say that he didn't answer my questions? As far as I know he's answered 'em all.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 04, 2012, 05:30:09 pm

This will potentially get awkward if Darvi doesn't show up soon. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 06, 2012, 12:02:10 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 04, 2012, 08:39:34 am

Hapah and borno: Could you sum up why you're voting each other?

Originally it was just an RVS vote. His answer wasn't satisfactory, and he voted for me because of a lazy edit, so I kept my vote on him.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:07:30 am

Sorry about that. It is exam week and I have been making most of my posts after the exams. suffice to say I am
"burned out". So I will be trying to make most of my posts in the morning now.

Both Urist and Borno are playing aggressive. This by it's self is a good thing, but often a scum will tend to hide in the top 2-3.
It is really all I have to go on atm. I suppose it is time to chum the waters.

I voted Borno to keep the conflict balanced, If all of our votes crowd onto one wagon there is a very high possibility of D1 ending with 7 votes on one person (who has a 1/9 chance, tops of being scum. If I can keep the sides balanced it will escalate further, and a real tell might show up.

Unfortunantly I still cannot think of any good questions to get the topic moving.

What the hell is this crap? Are you voting me just because I am being aggressive? Or are you voting me because if you vote me, my chances of getting lynched are much higher? And if I have 2/9 chance of being scum, I also have 7/9 chance of being town. If you don't have a real vote, look for one, scum.

Unvote, Vote Jiokuy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 06, 2012, 12:25:31 am

Hmm. So the mod for this game hasn't been logged in since May 2nd, so obviously he cannot perform his moderator duties. I've contacted him to see if I can get the game running.

If I don't hear from him soon, I'll take over for modding. In preparation for this, make sure you have your role PMs ready to send to me. Until that point, continue playing as normal.

I know the moderator's disappearance has kind of shot the activity of this game in the foot. I don't expect that my announcement here will return it to the levels the game started with, but if I do end up taking over, I'll expect all of you to play actively and busily from then on.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 06, 2012, 01:32:09 am

Darvi: wherefor hither art thou Darvi, hast thou forsaken us?

And yeah I'd just as soon not roll belly up as the D1 sacrificial Kitteh, but I have no idea how to go about defending myself.
I suppose I was not ready for a beginners game. Good luck in in your scumhunts. May you find your ch33zburgers safe and sound, so that your bellies shall once again be full. Remember me. . .

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: IronyOwl on May 06, 2012, 01:40:28 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 06, 2012, 01:32:09 am

And yeah I'd just as soon not roll belly up as the D1 sacrificial Kitteh, but I have no idea how to go about defending myself.
I suppose I was not ready for a beginners game.

Everyone's ready for a beginner's game; it's designed for beginners. If you don't think you're doing well or learning properly, it's probably because you're either not doing enough to learn from or accomplish much, or not following or asking for the right advice. Blindly trying things is usually better than blindly not trying things.

And of course, there's always next time. Not that you should just give up, but I mean, worst case keep trying.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 06, 2012, 11:13:44 pm

Darvi has missed the deadline for returning that I told nobody about.

Send me your roles. I'm sending out prods to speed up the process.

Day will end Tuesday 9:00 PM MST.

If I don't receive your role by 9:00 PM MST tomorrow, you will be prodded again.

Let's get this game going again.

---

[3] borno: Hapah, Jiokuy, Lord Allagon
[1] Hapah: obolisk0430
[3] Jiokuy: Shakerag, Urist Imiknorris, borno

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Karlito

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 07, 2012, 10:48:56 am

[Okay everyone, due to moderator shenanigans, we've been granted a couple of extra days.  Let's see you all make the most of them.  Given that we've had a bit of a lapse, now would be a good time for everyone to give a brief review on why they are voting who they are voting.]

My vote's on Jiokuy because (1) he made a fairly reasonless vote after being poked about not voting, (2) missed answering my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3247166#msg3247166), and (3) not voting who he thought was scum, but to "keep the conflict balanced".  And, of course, (4) throwing in the towel like the guilty scumbag he is.

[Let's break this down point by point for educational purposes.  Both for Jiokuy and for everyone else to not do these things.

1)  If you're going to vote, have a reason.  Even if it's "because RVS" or as a pressure vote, reasons, reasons, reasons.  Otherwise you look like you're voting arbitrarily, and that's scummy.

2)  If someone asks you a question, it looks scummy if you don't answer or avoid answering it.  At the very least it looks like you're not paying attention, which doesn't help whichever team you're on, and likely will not contribute to your longevity.

3)  Going with number one, having a shitty reason for voting is just as bad (or worse) than having no reason for voting.  Also, tactics involving "gaming" the voting system are outside the scope of a beginner's game, so let's stick to good ol' fashioned scumhunting for now. 

4)  Again, never give up.  It is certainly not unheard of for someing being fitted for a noose to face his or her accusers, smash thier arguments, and live for another day.  Sometimes it all falls on deaf ears, but you never know.  Always go out fighting.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 07, 2012, 11:48:10 am

[And a few more things.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 04, 2012, 10:07:30 am

but often a scum will tend to hide in the top 2-3.

[I'm not picking on you intentionally, I swear, but this is another good point to address.  You assume here that the scumteam is competent.  This is not necessarily a good assumption to have.  The scum players in a game you are in may be good, bad, or anywhere in-between.  Look for scum, not whoever's at the top.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 06, 2012, 01:32:09 am

I have no idea how to go about defending myself.

Quote from: IronyOwl on May 06, 2012, 01:40:28 am

Blindly trying things is usually better than blindly not trying things.

[At least do this.  If you do it right, great, people voting you may unvote you.  If you don't do it right, you'll hear from me again until you are.]

Quote from: IronyOwl on May 06, 2012, 01:40:28 am

If you don't think you're doing well or learning properly, it's probably because you're either not doing enough to learn from or accomplish much, or not following or asking for the right advice.

_{[Or maybe your ICs are new and they suck.  *cough*  >_>]}

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 07, 2012, 01:00:19 pm

I'm voting Jiokuy because:

-Voting people for scumhunting
-BSing about keeping sides balanced
-Giving up

However, I also don't like how borno tied the vote to stop his own lynch.

I'd also like to second Shakerag's points about assuming competent scum and giving up. Don't do either - the first may well come back to bite you in the ass if/when scum don't do what you expect, and giving up means you get lynched instead of whoever you think is scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 07, 2012, 02:12:24 pm

I am voting hapah because he was using bullshit reasoning in his vote borno.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 07, 2012, 02:16:13 pm

This is OOC and has no relevence to the game. Move along.

I would like to sign up as a replacement, in case one is needed.

This is OOC and has no relevence to the game. Move along.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 07, 2012, 02:43:14 pm

I am voting Jiokuy for his his bad reasoning for his bandwagon vote. Also because he voted for the people who were scumhunting.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 07, 2012, 02:48:23 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 07, 2012, 02:16:13 pm

I would like to sign up as a replacement, in case one is needed.

Yay, because one is. Rather, one more is.

Jim: Lord Allagon requested a replacement, and Karlito and Dr. Philbes apparently are either indisposed or too lazy to play. Scelly and zomara have stated that they'd be willing to replace in, so if/when you get role PMs from those three, will those three be replaced during the transition?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 07, 2012, 04:23:14 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 07, 2012, 02:48:23 pm

Jim: Lord Allagon requested a replacement, and Karlito and Dr. Philbes apparently are either indisposed or too lazy to play. Scelly and zomara have stated that they'd be willing to replace in, so if/when you get role PMs from those three, will those three be replaced during the transition?

Yes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

First things first: Jim, thanks for stepping up!

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

obolisk0430: I'll be the first to admit my reasoning is weak, but I've got to go with what I saw. I don't think Jiokuy smells like roses either (I'd really like to know where that 1/9 came from, among other things), but there you are. If anything, I think the fact that Jiokuy managed to make that large a misstep makes him look a little less suspicious to me (which goes into "So Scummy He's Town" territory a little, I know, but I stand by it).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 07, 2012, 09:20:00 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

First things first: Jim, thanks for stepping up!

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

obolisk0430: I'll be the first to admit my reasoning is weak, but I've got to go with what I saw. I don't think Jiokuy smells like roses either (I'd really like to know where that 1/9 came from, among other things), but there you are. If anything, I think the fact that Jiokuy managed to make that large a misstep makes him look a little less suspicious to me (which goes into "So Scummy He's Town" territory a little, I know, but I stand by it).

"Oh no, he's on to me.  I know, if I throw out an FOS, it will totally make him leave me alone, right?"

Wrong.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 08, 2012, 03:50:37 pm

[So everyone's content to end the day on a tie then?]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 04:15:36 pm

If nothing else, it should be educational.  :) I'm fine with it for that reason: experience is a very good teacher.

There's still a few hours, though: Someone might change their mind.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 08, 2012, 05:08:08 pm

Day ends Today 9:00 PM MST, in ~6 hours.

---

[3] borno: Hapah, Jiokuy, Lord Allagon
[1] Hapah: obolisk0430
[3] Jiokuy: Shakerag, Urist Imiknorris, borno

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Karlito

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 08, 2012, 05:24:50 pm

Extend

Hapah, as much as I think Jiokuy is scum, I can't ignore your last few posts.

-You're voting someone with admittedly weak reasoning.
-You're trying to claim that a large misstep somehow makes someone look more town.
-You're okay with the day ending on a tie (functionally a no lynch).  Guess what the only way for scum to get taken out is?  Why do you want the scumteam to have a free NK? 
-Asking about your "spat" as if looking for town approval.

I could go on, but unfortunately my posting time is getting cut short right now due to RL.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 08, 2012, 06:08:04 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

First things first: Jim, thanks for stepping up!

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

obolisk0430: I'll be the first to admit my reasoning is weak, but I've got to go with what I saw. I don't think Jiokuy smells like roses either (I'd really like to know where that 1/9 came from, among other things), but there you are. If anything, I think the fact that Jiokuy managed to make that large a misstep makes him look a little less suspicious to me (which goes into "So Scummy He's Town" territory a little, I know, but I stand by it).

Wait, what the hell is this?  I didn't even notice when you first posted this.

Have fun swinging from a rope, scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 07:37:33 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 08, 2012, 05:24:50 pm

Extend

Hapah, as much as I think Jiokuy is scum, I can't ignore your last few posts.

-You're voting someone with admittedly weak reasoning.
-You're trying to claim that a large misstep somehow makes someone look more town.
-You're okay with the day ending on a tie (functionally a no lynch).  Guess what the only way for scum to get taken out is?  Why do you want the scumteam to have a free NK? 
-Asking about your "spat" as if looking for town approval.

I could go on, but unfortunately my posting time is getting cut short right now due to RL.

By line:
-Yes. It's Day 1, anyone who says their reasoning isn't weak is deluding themselves. If someone had a rock-solid case we wouldn't have a split vote, we'd have someone on the end of a rope.
-I'm saying that scum normally have their shit together more than that. Even in a beginner's name, I wouldn't expect a scum to manage to cram his foot so far down his own throat.
-I am. I'm not exactly fresh off the bus, and I understand the value of a D1 lynch in a vanilla game like this, but I'm not going to make the townie's best decisions for them. If it managed to go through the entire weekend, all of Monday, and most of today (until you broke the tie) without anyone stepping up to the plate, then I'll let it ride.
-I don't see how soliciting opinions is scummy at all. I thought I saw a scumtell, and I wanted to see if anyone else saw what I saw.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 08, 2012, 06:08:04 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

First things first: Jim, thanks for stepping up!

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

obolisk0430: I'll be the first to admit my reasoning is weak, but I've got to go with what I saw. I don't think Jiokuy smells like roses either (I'd really like to know where that 1/9 came from, among other things), but there you are. If anything, I think the fact that Jiokuy managed to make that large a misstep makes him look a little less suspicious to me (which goes into "So Scummy He's Town" territory a little, I know, but I stand by it).

Wait, what the hell is this?  I didn't even notice when you first posted this.

Have fun swinging from a rope, scum.

A.) I'm town.
B.) You'll need one more. Not saying you won't get it, but this seems a little premature.
C.) Your last four (four!) posts have been attacking me. I admire your dedication, really, but you haven't so much as glanced at anyone else since last Friday. I answered your questions as best I could; if you're not happy with the responses, that's fine. But following up every one of my posts with an attack on me seems a bit excessive.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 08, 2012, 10:21:11 pm

Quote from: Darvi on April 26, 2012, 05:26:42 am

• If you n33d more time to discuss, you may ask for an extension.  If more players ask for one than those who decline one, the day will be extended by 48 hours.
• • There are no limit to the number of extensions allowed per day.

Day has been extended. Day will now end Thursday 9:00 PM MST.

I'll honor this rule for this extension, but I'm changing it for the future. I will require that >33% of the players request an extension for an extension to go through in order to make sure this game keeps going and people don't fall victim to extenditis. There will still be no limit to the number of extensions.

To extend again, there will need to be four votes for extension.

Supercharazad will replace Lord Allagon.
Flying Dice will replace Karlito.

---

[3] borno: Hapah, Jiokuy, Supercharazad
[2] Hapah: obolisk0430, Shakerag
[2] Jiokuy: Urist Imiknorris, borno

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Flying Dice

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Jiokuy, you've been online very recently, but you haven't posted for two days. I see two possibilities here:
1. You are lazy town. Just because things look bad doesn't mean you should give up. Get back in here and dig for scum. You won't save yourself by giving up (and frankly, you shouldn't care about being lynched if you're town), but you might if you start being aggressive and scumhunting. If you're town and not protesting or trying to stop a mislynch, you're hurting town. If you're town and you're giving up or lurking instead of scumhunting, you're hurting town.
2. You are scum, and have either given up at the prospect of an imminent lynch or are attempting to redirect attention by acting like lazy town.

I'm also curious about why you voted to "keep the conflict balanced"? That sounds like you don't care who gets lynched, which would suggest that either you're scum and both Hapah and borno are town and you're trying to fit into the "sideliner" category where you're active enough to smell like town but not active enough to be in the spotlight, or that you are (as above) lazy town.

I'm not positive which it is, but rest assured that if you do not respond, I will be voting for you, not least because your last few posts feel like what I've seen of Org's scumplay back in old 2009 games, albiet somewhat less polished.


Hapah, I only found it to be mildly suspicious when you answered Urist as if you were scum in this game, rather than hypothetically. That could very well be a newbtell, though, so I was going to put it aside if nothing else caught my eye.

However.

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 09:16:15 pm

And nobody asked, but I don't really like the RVS in general. You do have to get the conversation moving, sure, but I wish people were a little tighter with their votes.

Why don't you like RVS votes? Are you uncomfortable with people putting pressure on you that early in the game? I understand that it could be tricky to hide your scumminess with little prior experience, so I can see how you wouldn't like having to deal with that sort of attention. RVS is one of the better ways for D1 town to start digging up enough reason for a focused scumhunt.

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

What really got my attention was your response back in your first active post.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

So someone who responds once, with a brief post, is preferable to someone who posts multiple responses in a short period of time? More posts are always better because they let us get a better read on people, even if we're relatively new and don't have metaknowledge of playstyles. The more someone posts, the higher the chance that they'll drop a scumtell. I'll agree that people who freak out because they're targeted would be something to notice in a veteran game, but in BM it is basically a nulltell because people aren't used to being pressured like this. Quite apart from that, someone who is posting a lot, even if only in their own defense, is at least helping to keep the game active, which is always good for town.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Neither. They can both be useful, in their own way. The player aggressively attacking anything that moves muddies the waters, and as far as I'm concerned he's doing the Scum a favor. A lurker isn't hunting scum, and it's REAL hard to find them if not you're looking. As an added bonus, he'll look a little scummy because he's lurking: He might not be a hard lynch later in the game. If I had to choose one, though, I guess I'd NK the lurker.

So someone who is aggressively scumhunting and pressuring people is bad for town? You've implied and stating this several times now. One time I would probably file as a newbtell. Maybe twice. But three times, you've said that aggressive scumhunting is bad. That reeks of newscum trying to get town to be more passive to me. You also implied that it is preferential for scum to NK lurkers. Scum who NK lurkers are generally scum who are scared; this suggests that you're trying to subtly convey the notion that lurkers are therefore probably town. What this says to me is that you're trying to talk people into going after aggressive scumhunters (who help town and hurt scum) rather than pressuring lurkers into activity, which can only help town.

You reek of scum to me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:22:09 pm

Clarification: Jiokuy: You should care about being mislynched, but you should be trying to hunt scum, not defend yourself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 11:50:18 pm

Flying Dice: To avoid the whole quote-pyramid thing, I'll answer your questions in order. If you need clarification on any of them, just let me know.

On RVS - I don't like the RVS stage because I think the "pressure vote" is highly overused. I think town would get a lot more mileage if they didn't actually throw their vote at anything that moves and then change it to someone else for no discernible reason. It happens so often that people don't panic anyone if they get a vote or two on them in D1, because the votes are probably going to slide back off again. If the voting was a little less frequent, someone might actually flinch.

On why I'd "start a bandwagon" - This question is LOADED, but I'll play with it anyway. I don't know how I'm "starting a bandwagon" when, to my knowledge, I was the first person to point out what I see as a scumtell, not making things less complex. The original question didn't look complex at all to me, but it had already been asked. It looked like he was making a halfass attempt at scumhunting, so I grabbed onto it.

About who I'd target: I don't quite see what you're driving at here. The question assumed I was a scum roleblocker, and as a scum roleblocker I'd go after the jumpy folks, because I think they'd be more likely to be a power role.

On your last sentence - Where the hell is this coming from? A townie lashing out like a goddamn idiot at anything that moves because he doesn't have any leads ISN'T NECESSARILY A THREAT, the way I see it. People will disagree, sure, but that's how I see it.

I don't much care for the way you framed some of my words, but I think I've answered all of your questions. If I missed one, or you want a followup/clarification, just let me know.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 12:11:08 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

Welcome to Day 1. Nobody knows anything, so the smaller things count for more. And starting a bandwagon isn't a scumtell.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 09, 2012, 12:26:00 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:22:09 pm

Clarification: Jiokuy: You should care about being mislynched, but you should be trying to hunt scum, not defend yourself.

This, Jiokuy. If you are town, you have to remember that your main goal is to lynch all mafia, and if you give yourself up for a mislynch, it will actually hinder your chances at winning. As I have read somewhere, never underestimate your importance. If you need some help, read the FAQ.

Quote from: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 11:50:18 pm

On why I'd "start a bandwagon" - This question is LOADED, but I'll play with it anyway. I don't know how I'm "starting a bandwagon" when, to my knowledge, I was the first person to point out what I see as a scumtell, not making things less complex. The original question didn't look complex at all to me, but it had already been asked. It looked like he was making a halfass attempt at scumhunting, so I grabbed onto it.

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 12:41:16 am

Unvote.

I'm wondering how exactly I "framed your words"? I quoted your responses to those questions in their entirety. Sounds to me like you're trying to back out of what you said.

Yes, you were talking in hypotheticals, but you were still suggesting that being active is bad for town. I'd argue that even a Toony Tunnel is better for town than townies that aren't putting pressure on people. Yes, we don't have a lot to go on at the moment, so we're mostly pushing people to see where cracks appear. That's what D1 is about; it isn't going to be clean, and there is going to be a lot of arbitrary voting, but that's what good town does on D1. Even if we end up with a mislynch, that is still better than not doing any investigating, because if we're passive in D1, then we don't have much to work with on D2, which essentially means that the scum get a free NK. Once we have evidence and patterns to work with, we'll be more directed in scumhunting. But for now, any effort at convincing people to stop applying pressure looks like antitown behavior to me.

I was going to switch my vote to Jiokuy at this point in an attempt to pressure him into not giving up so easily, but then I noticed your response to one of Shakerag's questions.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 08, 2012, 03:50:37 pm

[So everyone's content to end the day on a tie then?]

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 04:15:36 pm

If nothing else, it should be educational.  :) I'm fine with it for that reason: experience is a very good teacher.

There's still a few hours, though: Someone might change their mind.

Sounds like you don't care too much who gets lynched, or even if there is a no-lynch. SCUM SCUM SCUM.

Hapah


Jiokuy. Get in here and start contributing. Even if you're mislynched, you might turn up something we can use to catch scum. If you let yourself be killed, you are hurting town. For now, I am assuming that you are either scum or a townie so apathetic that a mislynch of you is better than a possible mislynch of an active townie. Prove me wrong.

This has already been mentioned before, but you voted borno for a very scummy reason. Town doesn't want to make things balanced, town wants to catch scum. Don't throw your vote on someone because you want to balance things, throw your vote on someone because you want to pressure them, because they look like scum.

Here is my question for you:

If you were scum, what sort of behavior would you want to see from a townie taking pressure from other townies?

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 12:11:08 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

Welcome to Day 1. Nobody knows anything, so the smaller things count for more. And starting a bandwagon isn't a scumtell.

Thanks, and thanks for the reminder. Since I haven't even been here for most of D1, I'm mostly throwing accusations to see what sort of cracks show up.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 09, 2012, 09:08:01 am

Flying Dice: I disagreed with the meaning you pulled out of my questions here

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Jiokuy, you've been online very recently, but you haven't posted for two days. I see two possibilities here:
Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

Where me going after what I see as a scumtell is somehow starting a bandwagon (despite the fact that I was the first and laid my argument's weakness on the table), and here

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

So someone who responds once, with a brief post, is preferable to someone who posts multiple responses in a short period of time? More posts are always better because they let us get a better read on people, even if we're relatively new and don't have metaknowledge of playstyles. The more someone posts, the higher the chance that they'll drop a scumtell. I'll agree that people who freak out because they're targeted would be something to notice in a veteran game, but in BM it is basically a nulltell because people aren't used to being pressured like this. Quite apart from that, someone who is posting a lot, even if only in their own defense, is at least helping to keep the game active, which is always good for town.

Where me answering a question on what I'd do as a scum roleblocker SOMEHOW gives you that first sentence of "insight" about what I think is best for town. I'm trying to see what you see in those words, and I can't.

You are quoting me word-for-word, this is true, but you're pulling some very odd meanings out of them.

And YES, of course pressure is needed D1, we can't just sit around with our heads up our collective asses. I'm saying that plenty of pressure can be applied without throwing out some arbitrary votes, and that if the votes were saved for someone with a little suspicion instead of "here's a vote, now answer my question", we might manage to gather more information. I don't think I'm the first to put forward that view (Shakerag said I wasn't the first, but I couldn't tell you who has said it before), but I agree with the idea.

borno: I thought your halfass attempt at scumhunting WAS a scumtell. How many times do I have to say it before it sticks?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 09:44:00 am

I notice that you conveniently ignored the most significant of those statements of yours.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Neither. They can both be useful, in their own way. The player aggressively attacking anything that moves muddies the waters, and as far as I'm concerned he's doing the Scum a favor. A lurker isn't hunting scum, and it's REAL hard to find them if not you're looking. As an added bonus, he'll look a little scummy because he's lurking: He might not be a hard lynch later in the game. If I had to choose one, though, I guess I'd NK the lurker.

Emphasis mine. You outright stated that you think that active scumhunting helps scum. Random, aggressive attacks in D1 are normal; we're trying to find something to work with here. Why do you think that scumhunting is good for scum? Townies shouldn't be passive or careful, scum should. If you're town, you should be concentrating on scumhunting, regardless of whether or not you have firm evidence to go on, and this is a perfect example of why.

Note that you didn't say "throwing out random votes", you said "aggressively attacking". They are not the same thing, and now you're trying to take back what you said.

I wouldn't disagree that RVS is not always necessary, but in a game where people are slow/unwilling to respond, it can be. Quite apart from that, if you meant random votes, why didn't you say random votes?

Urist: A question. You're scum, and you see a few townies going at each other while ignoring everyone else, with the end of the day still a decent amount of time away. What do you do?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 10:12:46 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 09:44:00 am

Urist: A question. You're scum, and you see a few townies going at each other while ignoring everyone else, with the end of the day still a decent amount of time away. What do you do?

Fan the flames. Ruthlessly question all of them until the town eventually decides to lynch one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 09, 2012, 10:23:13 am

Okay, so I'm here.

Borno[/b]:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2012, 12:26:00 am

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

So, you seem to be getting defensive. Angry. If I'm understanding all this correctly, you're voting him and suspecting another because they voted you? OMGUS.
Why are you so defensive about them, and trying to prevent yourself getting lynched as opposed to actually trying to get the scum lynched? Voting Hapah without proper reasons is making you very suspicious in my eyes. Assuming that because someone voted you, then another person did makes them both scum is bullshit. Or did you already know that, Mr.Scumbucket?

Give some proper reasons for voting them.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 11:42:45 am

Supercharazad brings up a good point, borno. It's suspicious of Hapah to go after you for scumhunting (unless he genuinely thought that you were pretending to scumhunt rather than doing so badly, but I've seen no indication of that), now that I read your responses again, you seem to be more concerned with redirecting suspicion onto Jiokuy, who apparently has given up on responding to questions. That scumteam assumption seems rather premature as well. In addition to that, when you responded to Hapah's OMGUS on you with a single line implying that he's taking instructions from someone. That does look like half-assed, unconcerned scumhunting to me, borno.


Supercharazad, your (previously Lord Allagon's) vote has been on borno since the third post of the game. Do you suspect him, or have you not found anyone you think is worth pressuring?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 09, 2012, 12:03:39 pm

Flying Dice, right now I'm still getting into this. I suspect him, but haven't yet seen too much suspicious activity in anyone else.

I suspect him very heavily right now though, and will continue to do so until he's answered the questions to my satisfaction.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 09, 2012, 02:54:16 pm

Quote from: borno on May 01, 2012, 03:30:34 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 12:02:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 30, 2012, 11:44:53 pm

Unvote, Vote Hapah. You are mafia on D1. You haven't gotten a good read on the behavior of the town, except for a lurker. Do you NK the lurker, or a random towny?

Ha, I read the very first bit of your question and thought you were REALLY jumping the gun on calling me scum.  Random, if those are the only two options and I don't think the lurker is trying to fly low with a power role. Lurkers aren't a bad thing for scum, it's hard for them to find you if they don't go looking.  I can't help but notice your question is very similar to one I answered already, borno. Why is that? Did you miss it? I thought I had already made my night actions (and the reasoning behind them) as a scum reasonably clear.  borno: Answer the two questions posed to me, if you would.  Q1.)

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Q2.) The question you asked me (quoted at the top of this post).

Q2) What would the point be in answering my own question? I will, if you insist, but only after you answer the revised version.

Now, he said one of his reasons for voting me was because I didn't answer this question, although he never asked me again.
In my eyes, him and Jiokuy were taking advantage of the one vote from the person asking for a replacement by voting for me. This, to me, is very suspicious. I mentioned it before in my previous post. I'm also voting for him in a big change of reasoning, from calling saying he votes me because of a 'small scumtell' and as you are saying now, a 'halfassed attempt at scumhunting'. And It smells kind of fishy on how, when Jiokuy dropped a scumtell, he still stuck on me for a 'small scumtell'

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 09, 2012, 10:23:13 am

Okay, so I'm here.

Borno[/b]:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2012, 12:26:00 am

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

So, you seem to be getting defensive. Angry. If I'm understanding all this correctly, you're voting him and suspecting another because they voted you? OMGUS.
Why are you so defensive about them, and trying to prevent yourself getting lynched as opposed to actually trying to get the scum lynched? Voting Hapah without proper reasons is making you very suspicious in my eyes. Assuming that because someone voted you, then another person did makes them both scum is bullshit. Or did you already know that, Mr.Scumbucket?

Give some proper reasons for voting them.

Yes, I am getting angry. However, getting angry helps with aggressive scumhunting. Also, it's not an OMGUS, because he has had his vote on me for almost the whole game. Also, that's not being defensive. It's being aggressive. I'm attacking them aggressively because if I do, something may show up. And since I suspect them heavily, I will keep on attacking them until I get something out of it.

Flying dice, Why did you only show your suspicion to me after Supercharazad had posted? I didn't answer with just implying that he was taking directions from someone else, I answered with that he might be taking directions from someone else. Back then it was still RVS, and I was trying to get our argument going. The more heated an argument is, the more likely someone is to slip. Which, to me, he has.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 03:05:25 pm

borno, why do you suspect everyone who attacks you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 03:49:31 pm

Borno: I've been mildly suspicious of you since I read through the thread. I went after Hapah first because he seemed to be the most consistently suspicious, though not much more so than you. (Obviously, Jiokuy isn't posting, or I'd be going after him for a bit just for being such obvscum.)

I didn't voice my suspicions largely because I didn't have them entirely formulated yet. When Supercharazad FoSed you, I went back over your posts and noticed that you were trying to redirect suspicion to Jiokuy, which is a fairly safe move, given that he's both very inactive and rather scummy looking. You also tried to make a scumteam pairing between him and Hapah. Now, when I FoS you, you respond in the exact same way: you get defensive and try to redirect suspicion onto me and try to form a scumteam pairing between Supercharazad and myself. You don't appear to be concerned with scumhunting so much as defending your own skin in any way you can, which reeks of scum a lot stronger than Hapah's posts supporting antitown behavior; the latter is much more likely to be newbie behavior (unsolidified opinions).

Therefore, borno. You aren't trying to scumhunt, you're trying to push people away from suspecting you. No town should be worried about being suspected as scum; what do they have to hide?




Urist: I'm curious. You voted Jiokuy because:

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 07, 2012, 01:00:19 pm

I'm voting Jiokuy because:

-Voting people for scumhunting
-BSing about keeping sides balanced
-Giving up

Now, I can understand the motivation for a policylynch here, and might even have supported it if I didn't see other people acting scummy. At this point, though, Jiokuy is feeling like such an obvscum to me that the only way for him to look more scummy would be a blackmail attempt. In other words, scummy enough that I'm inclined to believe that it could really be someone who just has no idea how to start into this game. Obviously, this wouldn't be a good line of judgment in a game full of veterans, but here, I believe I've got about a 60% shot at being right, just on gut feeling.

You responded to my question

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 10:12:46 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 09:44:00 am

Urist: A question. You're scum, and you see a few townies going at each other while ignoring everyone else, with the end of the day still a decent amount of time away. What do you do?

Fan the flames. Ruthlessly question all of them until the town eventually decides to lynch one.

like that. Now, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable approach for scum to take in that sort of situation (not unlike this one). However, what would a veteran do if they were scum in a BM game and several townies were already going at each other and there was no heat on them at all? One thing that springs to mind would be: sideline, and put a vote on an easy lynch. That way, they can appear to be active by asking occasional questions and FoSing (not unlike what you've been doing since you explained why you were voting Jiokuy), while still staying below the radar. As a bonus, if the easy lynch you voted for goes down and flips town, you don't look particularly scummy, because they looked scummy.

After all, if you are town, why would you just drop a vote and then not put much pressure on anyone beyond posting the occasional single sentence about others' lines of inquiry? Even if you're absolutely convinced that the person you have your vote on is scum, isn't it good to keep getting data on other players? But if you were veteran scum in a BM game, there wouldn't be much risk in sitting back; even if a newbie thinks to question you, what sort of information would they have on you? How easy would it be for you to fool them?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 09, 2012, 05:02:35 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 02, 2012, 09:45:12 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 01, 2012, 12:32:21 pm

e.g. If I know who the cop is I might be able to bait the Godfather with the cop, then again who knows. Godfathers are unusual.

"Bait" the Godfather? 

Ahh yes, I was referring to a gambit in which a cop tries to oust a godfather by directly contacting players they have confirmed as town, In the hopes that when the cop dies there is a good probability the godfather started it. Course that's a fair bit more useless now, and it relies on the ability to PM other players. It was really just an excerpt of my newbie logic.

In regards to my lack of direct activity I do apologize. It became obvious that I did not know enough about Mafia D1 straegy, so I refrained from posting so that I could study more from the Mafiscum wiki, and other games.

So obolisk what is your opinion on the current situation?

And I am sorry, I am not a very talkative person. I prefer to watch and analyse, sadly there is very little to go on here. I am trying to learn to scumhunt. But it is a bit aquard for me to phrase anything.

On that Note:

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 09, 2012, 12:03:39 pm

I suspect him very heavily right now though, and will continue to do so until he's answered the questions to my satisfaction.

You entered on P8 did you not? I was going to question your vagueness, but you asked some very good questions. They should be anwsered.
Unvote

And I'm drawing a blank, I have very little reason to suspect anyone so far, and I know any of my attempts at pressure will backfire.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 06:02:50 pm

My main contention with Jiokuy at the moment is that he hasn't actually contributed at all since resigning himself to the noose. I don't know if he's taking advantage of Hapah and borno to lay low or just stopped paying attention to the game (in which case Mod: Prod Jiokuy?), but either way he needs to get in here and take part in the discussion. Once he's done that I'll reconsider my vote.

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 03:49:31 pm

However, what would a veteran do if they were scum in a BM game and several townies were already going at each other and there was no heat on them at all? One thing that springs to mind would be: sideline, and put a vote on an easy lynch. That way, they can appear to be active by asking occasional questions and FoSing (not unlike what you've been doing since you explained why you were voting Jiokuy), while still staying below the radar. As a bonus, if the easy lynch you voted for goes down and flips town, you don't look particularly scummy, because they looked scummy.

The problem with that is that Jiokuy isn't an easy lynch with Hapah and borno acting as they are.

Quote

After all, if you are town, why would you just drop a vote and then not put much pressure on anyone beyond posting the occasional single sentence about others' lines of inquiry?

I will admit I haven't been giving this game (or either of my other ones really) the effort that I should. I blame pokecapn & co.

Quote

Even if you're absolutely convinced that the person you have your vote on is scum, isn't it good to keep getting data on other players?

Indeed.

Quote

But if you were veteran scum in a BM game, there wouldn't be much risk in sitting back; even if a newbie thinks to question you, what sort of information would they have on you? How easy would it be for you to fool them?

No idea. I don't exactly trust my ability to lie.

PPE: Speak of the devil.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 09, 2012, 05:02:35 pm

And I'm drawing a blank, I have very little reason to suspect anyone so far

Nobody?

Quote

and I know any of my attempts at pressure will backfire.

What makes you think that? Try anyway. Doing nothing guarantees failure.

However, you're trying. Unvote.

borno: See my previous question to you.

Townies are more open to the idea that they are being attacked by misguided townies - after all, if you're not 100% sure who the scum are yourself, why should you expect anyone else to not make mistakes? However, scum, out of a desire to stay alive, are more inclined to try to get attention away from themselves. This tends to manifest as either deflecting questions (Why are you attacking me for that? <that player> did it too!) or OMGUSing (I'm not scum, you are!). You are doing the latter to everyone who attacks you, borno. Why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 06:18:38 pm

Urist: That's reasonable enough. I had figured it was more due to inactivity, but I wanted to see what you would say about it.



Jiokuy: Unless you're scum, you don't need to worry about screwing up your scumhunting and looking scummy. If you're town, you don't have any reason to worry about appearing scummy apart from the chance for a mislynch, which is drastically less important than finding scum (or at this point, just helping to dig up information). The more reluctant you are to participate, the more suspicious you look (to me, at least; I can't claim to speak for any other townies).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 09, 2012, 06:41:31 pm

I'm glad to see a lot more activity since Jim grabbed the reins!

Jiokuy: I'm not an IC (and see below, I've got some habits to break as well), but the best way to improve is to play. Even if you make mistakes (hell, look at me, I'd say at least half the damage done to me is self-inflicted), it's still better to take a shot at it. Never give up, and don't be afraid to get your hands dirty, if that's what it takes to shake loose a lead.

Flying Dice: I'd like to add some context to that bolded phase (in your last post that was pointed at me) that I should have put in from the beginning. This is only my 2nd forum Mafia. I've played plenty of Mafia, but it was the SC2 custom-map interpretation, and from what I'm now seeing it's a totally different beast. The days are much, much shorter, and the day phase plus trial is usually somewhere around the 2-minute mark. Typical game size is 14-15 players. It is VERY easy for legitimate information to get lost or a person's motives misinterpreted when 15 people are all trying to speak their piece in such a small amount of time. I've seen players that are confirmed, beyond-all-doubt Town get lynched simply because the proof gets washed away in the wall of text. Bandwagons are almost a necessity early on (it takes 51% plus to put someone on trial most games), and someone lashing out can more often than not be manipulated into lynching a townie. I will say that this (likely) does not apply in forum Mafia. I see now that this is (obviously) a much slower game type, and that here someone spitting out tons of information is not a detriment to the town.

I was wrong. You can read this as me trying to backtrack, or you can read it as a clarification, but how you choose to interpret it is your choice. I have much left to learn, ESPECIALLY when it comes to reading between the lines (I took a shot at borno and caught a lot of flak for my trouble). I'll make mistakes, it's practically a given. But that is how I will learn.

borno: I haven't gotten a chance to re-read the entire thread as of yet, but Urist and Super do seem to have a point. And concerning Jiokuy: You've got to agree that his comments looks like more of a newbtell than a scumtell, given his actions and recent posts. I'm not saying that being a noob is a free pass, but you do have to examine a noob's posts in a little different light. (No offense meant, Jiokuy. We all start somewhere.)

I'll try to fit in a good re-read tonight and see what comes up.

PPE: Well said, Flying Dice. (Do I shorten that to Flying or Dice?)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 07:18:50 pm

Hapah, I read it as the latter. I said from the very start that I was not entirely sure if it was you being scummish or you not being used to the normal line of thought here. Not to say that I no longer suspect you (or anyone else who isn't me), but you've given context and an explanation, which was the main thing I was after.

At the moment, all of the Mafia I've seen has been reading games played by vets, so I'm having to consciously direct my paranoia because there are going to be newbtells here.

((People usually use Dice, but it doesn't really matter either way.))

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 09:05:46 pm

Just realized I missed something important...

Unvote, vote borno.  :P

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2012, 12:45:18 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 03:05:25 pm

borno, why do you suspect everyone who attacks you?

I suspect people who, to me, either haven't posted their reasons for attacking me, or if I find one of their reasons for attacking me faulty.

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 03:49:31 pm

Borno: I've been mildly suspicious of you since I read through the thread. I went after Hapah first because he seemed to be the most consistently suspicious, though not much more so than you. (Obviously, Jiokuy isn't posting, or I'd be going after him for a bit just for being such obvscum.)

I didn't voice my suspicions largely because I didn't have them entirely formulated yet. When Supercharazad FoSed you, I went back over your posts and noticed that you were trying to redirect suspicion to Jiokuy, which is a fairly safe move, given that he's both very inactive and rather scummy looking. You also tried to make a scumteam pairing between him and Hapah. Now, when I FoS you, you respond in the exact same way: you get defensive and try to redirect suspicion onto me and try to form a scumteam pairing between Supercharazad and myself. You don't appear to be concerned with scumhunting so much as defending your own skin in any way you can, which reeks of scum a lot stronger than Hapah's posts supporting antitown behavior; the latter is much more likely to be newbie behavior (unsolidified opinions).

Therefore, borno. You aren't trying to scumhunt, you're trying to push people away from suspecting you. No town should be worried about being suspected as scum; what do they have to hide?

You have to keep in mind that it is still D1, and I'm trying to introduce the ideas of who is scum and who is scumteam. This is my second (The first one I came in when the game was already finished) mafia, and I still haven't really grasped the concept of being town yet (I was scum in the last one). I admit; I'm trying to not be lynched, but I still don't know how a normal town acts like.

Quote from: Hapah on May 09, 2012, 06:41:31 pm

borno: I haven't gotten a chance to re-read the entire thread as of yet, but Urist and Super do seem to have a point. And concerning Jiokuy: You've got to agree that his comments looks like more of a newbtell than a scumtell, given his actions and recent posts. I'm not saying that being a noob is a free pass, but you do have to examine a noob's posts in a little different light. (No offense meant, Jiokuy. We all start somewhere.)

Yes, I guess I have to. (And it's called being a newb, not a noob.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2012, 12:47:54 am

EBWOP: Extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 10, 2012, 09:31:06 am

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2012, 12:45:18 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 03:49:31 pm

Borno: I've been mildly suspicious of you since I read through the thread. I went after Hapah first because he seemed to be the most consistently suspicious, though not much more so than you. (Obviously, Jiokuy isn't posting, or I'd be going after him for a bit just for being such obvscum.)

I didn't voice my suspicions largely because I didn't have them entirely formulated yet. When Supercharazad FoSed you, I went back over your posts and noticed that you were trying to redirect suspicion to Jiokuy, which is a fairly safe move, given that he's both very inactive and rather scummy looking. You also tried to make a scumteam pairing between him and Hapah. Now, when I FoS you, you respond in the exact same way: you get defensive and try to redirect suspicion onto me and try to form a scumteam pairing between Supercharazad and myself. You don't appear to be concerned with scumhunting so much as defending your own skin in any way you can, which reeks of scum a lot stronger than Hapah's posts supporting antitown behavior; the latter is much more likely to be newbie behavior (unsolidified opinions).

Therefore, borno. You aren't trying to scumhunt, you're trying to push people away from suspecting you. No town should be worried about being suspected as scum; what do they have to hide?

You have to keep in mind that it is still D1, and I'm trying to introduce the ideas of who is scum and who is scumteam. This is my second (The first one I came in when the game was already finished) mafia, and I still haven't really grasped the concept of being town yet (I was scum in the last one). I admit; I'm trying to not be lynched, but I still don't know how a normal town acts like.

If you were scum in the last one, you should probably have a better idea of what townies are going to act like, because you were able to view a whole game knowing exactly who was town. Even if most of them were newbies, that'll still give you some idea.

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2012, 12:45:18 am

I suspect people who, to me, either haven't posted their reasons for attacking me, or if I find one of their reasons for attacking me faulty.

The problem is that every time someone has voted for you, you instantly became suspicious of them. It is fairly basic town logic that a vote or FoS is below the concern of a townie; after all, they aren't scum, and don't need to worry about being found out. Town putting pressure on other players is one of the most basic aspects of gameplay, basic enough that you probably should have picked up on it, either from IC comments, watching other players play, or reading through old games.

You have given fairly poor reasons for why you responded like that multiple times, but that isn't the main thing. The main thing is that your last two votes and your last FoS (in other words, all the votes and FoS you've cast since the end of RVS) have been directed at people who pressured you, just after they did so. That doesn't say "confused newtown trying to scumhunt" to me, it says "newscum not comfortable with taking heat". You have yet to do any scumhunting or questioning of people (outside of RVS) who haven't voted you, and when you do so, you appear to be more concerned with deflecting suspicion onto other people. If you think people look scummy, why are you telling the people pressuring you "oh, they look more scummy than I do, hint hint" instead of going after them yourself?

Incidentally, I agree. This is still D1, and we don't have too much to go by apart from reactions and little things. We'll have much more information after the first lynch and NK, once we can see those flips and start looking for patterns.

Unless anyone has any further lines of inquiry that they think are worth an extension, Veto Extension.
__
Unofficial Votecount: Lemme know if I missed something. Just for reference.
[5] borno: Hapah, Jiokuy, Supercharazad, Flying Dice, Urist Imiknorris
[3] Hapah: obolisk0430, Shakerag, borno

NV: Dr. Phibes (or his replacement)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 10:34:13 am

Borno: You didn't answer my questions or give more reasons like I asked.


Right now, I'm fairly certain Borno is scum. He's not answering half the questions directed at him and seems a hell of a lot more concerned with not getting lynched rather than getting the scum lynched.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 10:43:21 am

@Dice A Myslynch is bad for town. If I indirectly-lynch myself without providing sufficient information (e.g. scumhunting well) I have done the town a disservice.
PS: I unvoted
PPS: I'll post more when I am home

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 10, 2012, 11:31:45 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 09, 2012, 05:02:35 pm

So obolisk what is your opinion on the current situation?

Too lazy to make your own?

Also, I'm sitting here reading everything that just happend.  I'll re-read it in a sec, but right now, I'm seeing just one single thing.  Massive bandwagoning.  Shortly after I started grinding Hapah, a ton of people suddenly started voting him.  Then I see this:

Supercharazad shoots an FOS at borno for being defensive and voting Hapah.
Flying dice comes up from his last post in which he was pressuring Hapah, and suddenly goes "Herp derp, supercharazad makes a good point, borno is probably scum"
Borno throws an FOS at flying dice for being a wishywasy bandwagoning scumbucket
Urist comes in and nailes borno for suspecting everyone who pressures/votes him
Then suddenly, votes on borno.

This is bullshit.  I'm reading borno's vote on Hapah, and it looks completely legit to me.  In fact, it's the damn reason I'm voting Hapah in the first place.  Because Hapah doesn't care about having a good reason for voting borno, he just wants to vote him.
As was said, flying dice is a wishywashy scumbucket.
Urist is also just shooting off bullshit.  Borno has completely good reasons for acting suspicious of the people voting him: those people have no good reasons what so ever.
The hell are you guys doing?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 11:38:31 am

I like how you're defending Borno while reusing his bullshit arguments.
We all have plenty of good reasons for voting Borno, and your defense of him basically means that if he's scum, you're next to go on the lynching block.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 10, 2012, 12:28:58 pm

[ohai everyone.  Busy day yesterday, so I've some catching up to do.  Very glad to see so much activity, even if it means more for me to look over!]

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 07:37:33 pm

By line:
-Yes. It's Day 1, anyone who says their reasoning isn't weak is deluding themselves. If someone had a rock-solid case we wouldn't have a split vote, we'd have someone on the end of a rope.
-I'm saying that scum normally have their shit together more than that. Even in a beginner's name, I wouldn't expect a scum to manage to cram his foot so far down his own throat.
-I am. I'm not exactly fresh off the bus, and I understand the value of a D1 lynch in a vanilla game like this, but I'm not going to make the townie's best decisions for them. If it managed to go through the entire weekend, all of Monday, and most of today (until you broke the tie) without anyone stepping up to the plate, then I'll let it ride.
-I don't see how soliciting opinions is scummy at all. I thought I saw a scumtell, and I wanted to see if anyone else saw what I saw.

Okay, I'll respond likewise:
-Yes, granted, there's usually going to be less to go on D1 as opposed to later in the game.  However, calling your reasoning "weak" sends off the vibe of "I'm scum and can't get anything better but I *really* want to lynch this person" to me at least.  [Also, think about what happens if that person gets lynched and the other players look at why you voted them.  If they flip scum, people may be inclined to think you got lucky and are a poor scumhunter.  If they flip town, they may think the previous at best, or think you're scum at worst.]
-Again, don't assume competency level of the scumteam.  You will be surprised at how good/bad both town and scum can be.  [To me, arguments about competence only really work when you know a particular player's playstyle well.  i.e. if someone is a known strong player and they do something seemingly really dumb ...]
-So step up to the plate yourself?  If you want whomever you're voting for lynched, then keep building a case against them so that everyone else looks at it and goes "gee, Hapah's got a point, that person really *is* scummy!" and votes who you are voting. 
-If your argument is strong, others will notice it on thier own.  If you feel you have to call attention to it, then you're either a) doing it wrong, or b) scum trying to show off how town you look.

Quote from: Hapah

C.) Your last four (four!) posts have been attacking me. I admire your dedication, really, but you haven't so much as glanced at anyone else since last Friday. I answered your questions as best I could; if you're not happy with the responses, that's fine. But following up every one of my posts with an attack on me seems a bit excessive.

[Generally speaking, tunneling in and of itself isn't a scumtell.]


Jim:  What happened to Scelly9 and zomara0292 in the replace queue?  And doesn't Dr. Phibes still need a replacement?


[Gurgh.  Lots of posts.  I'm just going to respond to points as I go and quote only if I need to.]

[Hapah@123: Typically RVS votes don't have much "weight" behind them, but when it's clear that the voting is switching from RVS to "pressure" or "lynch" people tend to react to that more.]

[borno@125: Caution yourself against trying to pick out the scumteam early, especially before scum has flipped, and extra especially on D1.  It's almost always a bad idea.]

[Hapah@127: I was more referring to alternatives to RVS altogether if I recall correctly.  Like starting of D1 with a massclaim in a role-heavy game, or some manner of insane gambit (like doing something blatently scummy and peg whoever tries to go for the easy lynch as scum).  Neither has generally worked terribly well, so we stick with RVS.]

Supercharazad@130: Here's a little mental exercise.  Put yourself in borno's position.  Would you act the same way borno is if you were town?  If you were scum?  [This is a good thing to do in general, by the way.]


Flying Dice@131: Can you clarify what makes you feel that borno is "redirecting suspicion onto Jiokuy"?


[Jiokuy@136:  That's a fair amount of time away "studying".  I hope to see you applying your newfound knowledge.  Additionally, I'm more of a "sit back and analyze" player myself, but you have to break out of that somewhat in these kinds of games.  Also, try not to refer to page numbers, as not all of us show the same number of posts per thread.  To me, we're only on page three.  There's been a lot said, especially lately.  You have more than enough to work with in front of you.  Finally, be bold!  You're here to learn, so try and pressure anyway.  The ICs will critique and correct if necessary.]


Hapah@139:  Hum.  Well, that explains some things.  unvote while I re-evaluate everything going on here.


Supercharazad: Another mental exercise:  What if borno flips town?  What will your thoughts be then? 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 10, 2012, 12:32:34 pm

obolisk0430: Why the hostile tone? The question seems reasonable enough to me. Before your latest post, all you'd done is go after me. I'm guilty of the same sort of focus on borno, but I've been getting jabbed and forced to defend myself; I think my thoughts and opinions are out there.

The votes on me were probably justified; I did a pretty good job of putting my foot in my mouth. borno did seem dodgy in his responses, and he did lash out at anyone that questioned them and tried to put them on the defensive and implicate them as scum instead of trying to change their mind. I'm green enough that I don't know if this is the typical response, but I do think it smells a little off. It's not what I did, anyway.

Supercharazad: I think the last part of your latest point is premature. That comment seems counter-productive: You could be bussing borno yourself, and that phrase could be you setting the stage for a very reasonable mislynch D2. Let's not get ahead of ourselves: wait and see what we get from the lynch and the NK.

borno: newb, noob, color, colour, whatever. Different ways to spell the same thing.

I don't much like that you voted for an Extend, there is definitely activity now, and I think we've bled D1 just about dry (It's been going on, what, nine days?). Let's keep things moving. It appears either you or me are getting lynched, and your extend vote looks like you trying to get your neck out of the noose. I'd rather you get lynched than me, obviously: but I'm not fighting it either way. Lynching me would be unfortunate, but very informative. Even if you flip town, it will still be very informative. (I kinda lost my thread here, but I think you get the gist of it).

PPE: Oh gods, Shakerag wall. I'll try to read it now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 01:05:07 pm

Shakerag:
1: If I were town, which I am, I would act the way I am currently. If I were mafia, I wouldn't act like him at all, I would act in exactly the same way as if I were town. I would aim to lynch anyone that seems scummy. If that meant my partner because he was being stupid, so be it.

2: In that case, I'll reconsider my views on obolisk0430 and begin the search for people who seem scummy. Right now I have a small list of people I find suspicious and who I want to investigate further, but will most likely do so after I see which way Borno flips.

Hapah: The point I was making was that if Borno does flip scum as I believe he will, I have a very good idea of who I'm going to start grilling next.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 10, 2012, 02:23:39 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 10, 2012, 12:28:58 pm

Jim:  What happened to Scelly9 and zomara0292 in the replace queue?  And doesn't Dr. Phibes still need a replacement?

I asked them if they wanted to replace in when I took over and they said no. And yes, Dr.Phibes is still in need of a replacement.

Don't worry, man. I'm totally on top of stuff and things.

Day ends 9:00 PM MST Today, in ~ 8.5 hours. There is one vote for an extension and one vote against. Four are required to extend the day.

---

[4] borno: Hapah, Supercharazad, Flying Dice, Urist Imiknorris
[2] Hapah: obolisk0430, borno

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Shakerag, Jiokuy

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 02:38:48 pm

Uuh, I'll [b vote against extend.[/b]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 03:23:42 pm

Vote Against Extend
I'm not necessarily sure lynching Borno is the best route to go. Remember if we mislynch it is one less night we can outnumber the mafia.
That said if we never lynch we can never win, and Borno has given some semi-incriminating (for D1) evidence.
I'm still not convinced enough to non RVS vote him though. I'll leave that to yall if you feel he is scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 03:28:47 pm

That's rather wishy-washy, Jiokuy.
You're not being productive and scumhunting, leading me to believe you may be scum yourself. What have you got to say for yourself?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 10, 2012, 03:31:40 pm

Jiokuy: Can't be afraid to pull the trigger on the town's only weapon. The information, especially this early in, is invaluable. In very power-heavy games it MIGHT (it's probably just my past experiences talking) be alright to no-lynch if D1 is a real snore-fest, but the general rule is that town has to lynch to win, and mislynches are going to happen from time to time.

You'll make mistakes with your speech, and you'll mislynch a townie sometimes. It's just the price of doing business.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 10, 2012, 04:14:42 pm

obolisk:

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 10, 2012, 11:31:45 am

Shortly after I started grinding Hapah, a ton of people suddenly started voting him.

Two is a ton? One of whom is a replacement who voted Hapah with his first post?

Quote

Urist comes in and nailes borno for suspecting everyone who pressures/votes him
Then suddenly, votes on borno.

Already explained.

Quote

Urist is also just shooting off bullshit.  Borno has completely good reasons for acting suspicious of the people voting him: those people have no good reasons what so ever.

News flash: Voting someone D1 for shitty reasons isn't scummy. Suspecting someone for doing so is. Unless scum make a massive slip up like claiming scum, there probably won't be any good reasons for voting someone D1. I seem to remember having said this before.

You're chainsawing for borno awfully hard, aren't you?

borno:

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2012, 12:45:18 am

I suspect people who, to me, either haven't posted their reasons for attacking me, or if I find one of their reasons for attacking me faulty.

And what of the people who aren't attacking you?

Quote

You have to keep in mind that it is still D1, and I'm trying to introduce the ideas of who is scum and who is scumteam. This is my second (The first one I came in when the game was already finished) mafia, and I still haven't really grasped the concept of being town yet (I was scum in the last one). I admit; I'm trying to not be lynched, but I still don't know how a normal town acts like.

A normal townie is focused on one goal: finding and lynching the scum. Look for people acting suspiciously and question them about it. Pursue anything that seems out of the ordinary.

Jiokuy:

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 03:23:42 pm

Vote Against Extend
I'm not necessarily sure lynching Borno is the best route to go. Remember if we mislynch it is one less night we can outnumber the mafia.

What do you think is the best route? And if you're not sure about it why vote to oppose an extension?

Supercharazad:

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 01:05:07 pm

Right now I have a small list of people I find suspicious and who I want to investigate further, but will most likely do so after I see which way Borno flips.

Who?

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 02:38:48 pm

Uuh, I'll vote against extend.

Why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

Then allow me to clarify.
I am in no way sure Borno is scum.
I understand that lynching is necessary.
Mislynches are a regrettable but necessarily occourance.
Atm we will have a lynch, I would rather not take part in what I would believe to be a mislynch (seeing as I cannot find solid reasons (it's D1)) AND he will currently be lynched anyways, so I will abstain from voting until the point where I am needed for a vote.

This is my first game of fourm mafia and the lack of facial expression is difficult.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 10, 2012, 04:37:35 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

Then allow me to clarify.

Alright.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

I am in no way sure Borno is scum.

None of us can be sure. We have suspicions, but we have to act.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

I understand that lynching is necessary.

Alright. Then pull the damn trigger.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

Mislynches are a regrettable but necessarily occourance.

If it's necessary, then make sure it happens.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

Atm we will have a lynch, I would rather not take part in what I would believe to be a mislynch (seeing as I cannot find solid reasons (it's D1)) AND he will currently be lynched anyways,

Dangerous assumption. If any of the people on borno switch it me, it's tied up 3-3 and turns into a no-lynch.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

so I will abstain from voting until the point where I am needed for a vote.

Your vote is needed now, in a way. We need someone to hang for information, and me and borno are the two lambs up for slaughter. It's not pretty, but you need to make sure that one of us goes down by either
a.) Ensuring that the vote on borno goes through. Pour it on!
b.) Bring a case against me. If you think I'm the better choice, then spell out why. (and holding your vote here to avoid a tie while people digest your case would be alright, since a mislynch is better than no lynch, but that's not what's happening)

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 04:23:13 pm

This is my first game of fourm mafia and the lack of facial expression is difficult.

We're Brothers in Noobness (Newbness? Who cares, lol) here. I've never played real-life Mafia, but it's a very different ballgame here than what I'm used to as well. Just have to try to adapt as best you can, and accept that mistakes will be made.

PS: I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything, IC's. I'm just in a good position to empathize, being a new guy here myself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 05:07:30 pm

I was under the notion that this match did not include hammers?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 05:08:51 pm

I should add, that Borno is #1 (though I am skeptical) and if it is tied I will change my vote.

PS sorry for double

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 10, 2012, 05:13:44 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 10, 2012, 05:08:51 pm

I should add, that Borno is #1 (though I am skeptical) and if it is tied I will change my vote.

PS sorry for double

[Double (and sometimes triple or quadruple) posting is absolutely fine in these games because you can't edit your posts.  No one will mind.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 10, 2012, 05:30:36 pm

Jim:  Okay, cool just checking.

Supercharazad:  I more meant that first part as "Does borno's reactions to what is happening to him make sense if he was town?  Do his reactions make sense if he was scum?"  I'm not sure if you caught that distinction or not. 

Jiokuy is passive, distancing scum. 

UI: I don't really see that as chainsawing.  Honestly, to me, borno is reacting like someone getting screwed over, which I'm inclined to think he is.  If he flips scum, then good on all of you.  If he flips town, Hapah and I are going to talk further, I think.

[You are correct, Jiokuy, there are no hammers in beginner's games.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 10, 2012, 05:36:02 pm

Sorry I haven't been available for most of today-busy with finals and moving out.
__

Quote from: Shakerag on May 10, 2012, 12:28:58 pm

Flying Dice@131: Can you clarify what makes you feel that borno is "redirecting suspicion onto Jiokuy"?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2012, 12:26:00 am

Quote from: Hapah on May 07, 2012, 06:06:26 pm

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 11:50:18 pm

On why I'd "start a bandwagon" - This question is LOADED, but I'll play with it anyway. I don't know how I'm "starting a bandwagon" when, to my knowledge, I was the first person to point out what I see as a scumtell, not making things less complex. The original question didn't look complex at all to me, but it had already been asked. It looked like he was making a halfass attempt at scumhunting, so I grabbed onto it.

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

It was mainly that post. Quite apart from that being the first of several times he responds to pressure by voting/FoSing the person pressuring him, he slipped in that implication that Jiokuy was scum. If he thought that Jiokuy was scum, why didn't he start questioning him? Even after Jiokuy came back, borno has practically ignored him. That says that he is more concerned about making other people look suspicious and trying to get people to back off of him, rather than going after people he finds suspicious.

Admittedly, Hapah was a bit suspicious, and is still above my average level of paranoia, but borno's actions both here and later made him look much scummier. Basically, unless someone outright scumclaims, I probably won't be shifting my vote, because he looks far scummier than anyone else in the game to me. Most people are a little bit scummy, but everything he has done since the end of RVS has looked like nervous scum trying to convince people to stop accusing them.

Jiokuy: Correct, there is no hammer in BM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 10, 2012, 11:35:30 pm

Teh kitties talked and talked and meowed and then they decided borno was the bad kitties.

"No, I'm not a bad kitty," he said, "I'm Cieling Cat." And he was right.

And then he left and the rest of the kittehs were sad.

---

[4] borno: Hapah, Supercharazad, Flying Dice, Urist Imiknorris
[2] Hapah: obolisk0430, borno
[1] Jiokuy: Shakerag

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Jiokuy

borno has been lynched. He was Ceiling Cat (Cop)!

It is now Night 1. It will last until 9:00 PM MST Tomorrow. Get your actions in!

Since I can't lock the thread, and I'm not going to make a new thread for this game, nobody is allowed to post in this thread until day arrives. You are honor-bound to do this. If you break this rule, you will receive one warning. After that, you will be modkilled.


Edio is replacing Dr.Phibes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2012, 11:41:48 pm

_[DELETED]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 10, 2012, 11:43:12 pm

borno has been warned for posting at Night!

I said no talking, dammit. Keep your bah post to yourself until it's day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2012, 04:42:05 pm

The sunbeam that put the kittens to sleap finally passed and they all stretched and woke up.

"Flying Dice is missing!" One kitteh shouted.

"Oh no!" everyone else said in unison. "The bad kittehs must have got to him"

"Oh no!"

You look through his tings and find out he was Dr. Tinycat.

"we have to find teh bad kitties before they find us"

---

It is now Day 2.

Flying Dice has been killed in the night. He was Dr. Tinycat (Doctor)!

Day 2 will end on Tuesday 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 11, 2012, 05:16:14 pm

We lost two powerroles in one night? Oh, this can't be good.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 11, 2012, 05:28:25 pm

Well shit.

Welcome to day 2. You know two peoples' alignments now, so if you're lacking leads go back and review D1 with that new information.

Edio: Welcome. Presumably you've read through the game so far. What have you found notable about the events of D1?

My questions from yesterday to Supercharazad still apply:

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 10, 2012, 04:14:42 pm

Supercharazad:

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 01:05:07 pm

Right now I have a small list of people I find suspicious and who I want to investigate further, but will most likely do so after I see which way Borno flips.

Who?

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 10, 2012, 02:38:48 pm

Uuh, I'll vote against extend.

Why?

Jiokuy: Who do you suspect and why?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 11, 2012, 05:41:43 pm

I think I speak for everyone when I say:

ffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2012, 06:26:44 pm

I will be gone overnight. I will be unavailable to provide votecounts and answer rule related questions.

If you have any, direct them to the ICs until I get back.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Tidal on May 11, 2012, 06:35:12 pm

Urist Imiknorris: I've read through most of it. I can't say I read it that intently, but I read it. It seemed that a lot of folks were arguing over that borno fellow. In the end though, that didn't seem to turn out so well. Hapah essentially summed up all of my thoughts for the happenings of D1.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 09:30:26 pm

. . .Well. . . Is this a new record?

In light of the recent flips, I would have to put my vote on eithir Urist or Hapah.

It is very WIFOM though, If Hapah was scum, and he knew borno was town, then he really pushed that vote hard and that makes him suspicious now that he has flipped. As a matter though he did directly lead to the lynching of a power role, so my vote is on him. for now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 11:33:14 pm

PPS: the Nightkill looks more like a personal kill than a strategic one. Who argued/disapproved/disagreeded with dive the most. Or who was #1 on Dice's list.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 11, 2012, 11:56:54 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 09:30:26 pm

. . .Well. . . Is this a new record?

Quite possibly - there might be other games where that's happened, but I don't feel like looking. There is a bright side though - any power roles the scum have are now useless as well.

Quote

In light of the recent flips, I would have to put my vote on eithir Urist or Hapah.

It is very WIFOM though, If Hapah was scum, and he knew borno was town, then he really pushed that vote hard and that makes him suspicious now that he has flipped. As a matter though he did directly lead to the lynching of a power role, so my vote is on him. for now.

You're voting Hapah because he lynched a power role?

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 11:33:14 pm

PPS: the Nightkill looks more like a personal kill than a strategic one.

What makes you say that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 12, 2012, 12:09:01 am

Well I doubt that they could have know Dice was the doctor. From what I have leanred dice really did not drop any doctor tells. So I would assume it was a defensive kill.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 12, 2012, 02:33:11 am

Urist Imiknorris:


Well, right now they are as follows:

Jiokuy
Flying Dice
Hapah
Urist Imiknorris.


I voted against extend because it seemed very likely that he was trying to extend to try and pass away some of those votes, and because there really wasn't any need for an extend.


Which leads to my question. Why are you voting me and ignoring the other pweron who voted against an extend?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:21:08 am

Would it be considered in poor taste to start off with "I told you so" and "You guys are dumb"?
Imma re-read day 1, be back in a bit

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:35:44 am

Well, that was fast.  Okay:
My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.  I still say his reasons for voting borno are bullshit.  Beyond that, he was perfectly alright with letting Day 1 end with a no lynch.
In addition to this, Urist looks pretty goddamn suspicious to me.  I think your attack on Borno was also bullshit.  OMGUSing is a scum tell, but in this case, I think it's a null tell, because EVERYONE ATTACKING HIM HAD BULLSHIT REASONS.  Including you.
I would also like to clarify something in this post.  I make a clear distinction between a shitty reason and a bullshit reason.  A vote with a shitty reason actually has some basis, however small.  A bullshit vote has NO REAL BASIS.  You are not making votes with shitty reasons, you are making BULLSHIT votes.  That's why I think you're scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 12, 2012, 11:46:09 pm

I have reread the posts from D1 looking for clues. From this I have gained a modicum of certainty that Hapah is indeed scum.

From his induction Flying Dice pressured Hapah heavily.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Hapah, I only found it to be mildly suspicious when you answered Urist as if you were scum in this game, rather than hypothetically. That could very well be a newbtell, though, so I was going to put it aside if nothing else caught my eye.

However.

Quote from: Hapah on May 01, 2012, 09:16:15 pm

And nobody asked, but I don't really like the RVS in general. You do have to get the conversation moving, sure, but I wish people were a little tighter with their votes.

Why don't you like RVS votes? Are you uncomfortable with people putting pressure on you that early in the game? I understand that it could be tricky to hide your scumminess with little prior experience, so I can see how you wouldn't like having to deal with that sort of attention. RVS is one of the better ways for D1 town to start digging up enough reason for a focused scumhunt.

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

What really got my attention was your response back in your first active post.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 30, 2012, 09:58:02 am

Hapah:  It's N1, and you're a scum roleblocker.  No one claimed a role during D1.  How do you pick your target?

Look for the nervous one. You know the type: Posts 4 times in 30 minutes after getting one hard question and a RVS vote. New players get weighted a little easier (they're twitchy all the time), but I'd guess anyone that jumps when you say "Boo" probably does so for a reason.

So someone who responds once, with a brief post, is preferable to someone who posts multiple responses in a short period of time? More posts are always better because they let us get a better read on people, even if we're relatively new and don't have metaknowledge of playstyles. The more someone posts, the higher the chance that they'll drop a scumtell. I'll agree that people who freak out because they're targeted would be something to notice in a veteran game, but in BM it is basically a nulltell because people aren't used to being pressured like this. Quite apart from that, someone who is posting a lot, even if only in their own defense, is at least helping to keep the game active, which is always good for town.

Quote from: Hapah on April 30, 2012, 05:17:32 pm

Quote from: Lord Allagon on April 30, 2012, 10:23:22 am

@Hapah: It's D2. You are scum. There is a player aggressively attacking other players, and there is a lurker who has only posted twice in the actual game. Who do you kill?

Neither. They can both be useful, in their own way. The player aggressively attacking anything that moves muddies the waters, and as far as I'm concerned he's doing the Scum a favor. A lurker isn't hunting scum, and it's REAL hard to find them if not you're looking. As an added bonus, he'll look a little scummy because he's lurking: He might not be a hard lynch later in the game. If I had to choose one, though, I guess I'd NK the lurker.

So someone who is aggressively scumhunting and pressuring people is bad for town? You've implied and stating this several times now. One time I would probably file as a newbtell. Maybe twice. But three times, you've said that aggressive scumhunting is bad. That reeks of newscum trying to get town to be more passive to me. You also implied that it is preferential for scum to NK lurkers. Scum who NK lurkers are generally scum who are scared; this suggests that you're trying to subtly convey the notion that lurkers are therefore probably town. What this says to me is that you're trying to talk people into going after aggressive scumhunters (who help town and hurt scum) rather than pressuring lurkers into activity, which can only help town.

You reek of scum to me.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 09, 2012, 12:41:16 am

Unvote.

I'm wondering how exactly I "framed your words"? I quoted your responses to those questions in their entirety. Sounds to me like you're trying to back out of what you said.

Yes, you were talking in hypotheticals, but you were still suggesting that being active is bad for town. I'd argue that even a Toony Tunnel is better for town than townies that aren't putting pressure on people. Yes, we don't have a lot to go on at the moment, so we're mostly pushing people to see where cracks appear. That's what D1 is about; it isn't going to be clean, and there is going to be a lot of arbitrary voting, but that's what good town does on D1. Even if we end up with a mislynch, that is still better than not doing any investigating, because if we're passive in D1, then we don't have much to work with on D2, which essentially means that the scum get a free NK. Once we have evidence and patterns to work with, we'll be more directed in scumhunting. But for now, any effort at convincing people to stop applying pressure looks like antitown behavior to me.

I was going to switch my vote to Jiokuy at this point in an attempt to pressure him into not giving up so easily, but then I noticed your response to one of Shakerag's questions.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 08, 2012, 03:50:37 pm

[So everyone's content to end the day on a tie then?]

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 04:15:36 pm

If nothing else, it should be educational.  I'm fine with it for that reason: experience is a very good teacher.

There's still a few hours, though: Someone might change their mind.

Sounds like you don't care too much who gets lynched, or even if there is a no-lynch. SCUM SCUM SCUM.

Hapah


Jiokuy. Get in here and start contributing. Even if you're mislynched, you might turn up something we can use to catch scum. If you let yourself be killed, you are hurting town. For now, I am assuming that you are either scum or a townie so apathetic that a mislynch of you is better than a possible mislynch of an active townie. Prove me wrong.

This has already been mentioned before, but you voted borno for a very scummy reason. Town doesn't want to make things balanced, town wants to catch scum. Don't throw your vote on someone because you want to balance things, throw your vote on someone because you want to pressure them, because they look like scum.

Here is my question for you:

If you were scum, what sort of behavior would you want to see from a townie taking pressure from other townies?

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 12:11:08 am

Quote from: Flying Dice on May 08, 2012, 11:20:51 pm

Furthermore, you went after borno for an insignificant change to his question for you, one which clarified it. That suggests to me that you're looking for an excuse to start a bandwagon without any real reason. Care to explain why town would want to bandwagon someone not because of evidence or even a gut feeling, but because they were trying to make things less complex? Complexity and confusion are tools of the informed minority, after all.

Welcome to Day 1. Nobody knows anything, so the smaller things count for more. And starting a bandwagon isn't a scumtell.

Thanks, and thanks for the reminder. Since I haven't even been here for most of D1, I'm mostly throwing accusations to see what sort of cracks show up.

Now Hapah was able to direct Dice’s suspicions to Borno thanks to his slip up, but it is my suspicion that Hapah knew Borno would flip town, and that he feared that on D2 Dice would direct his active scumhunting at him

Also I have aome suspicions of supercharzard in how he indirectly defended Hapah earlier on.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 09, 2012, 10:23:13 am

Okay, so I'm here.

Borno[/b]:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2012, 12:26:00 am

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

So, you seem to be getting defensive. Angry. If I'm understanding all this correctly, you're voting him and suspecting another because they voted you? OMGUS.
Why are you so defensive about them, and trying to prevent yourself getting lynched as opposed to actually trying to get the scum lynched? Voting Hapah without proper reasons is making you very suspicious in my eyes. Assuming that because someone voted you, then another person did makes them both scum is bullshit. Or did you already know that, Mr.Scumbucket?

Give some proper reasons for voting them.

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.
If Hapah flips scum, seriously consider supercharzard as a potential scum candidate.

However I won’t let Dice’s (and his avatar’s) sacrifice stand in vain. I will see these scum lynched.
Vote Hapah

Brain hurts, I sleep now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 12, 2012, 11:48:19 pm

PPS: the stuff with super is more of a suspicion, the Hapah is far more certain, upon review my post did not differentiate that enough.
Hapah is scum, I stake my life on it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 13, 2012, 12:37:37 am

[Welcome to D2 everyone.  Now we've got some guaranteed solid information to work from.  Flying Dice and borno are confirmed (posthumously) as town.  Obviously, any theories any of us had in our heads that relied upon one of the two being scum are rendered invalid.  Now it helps to look at each player's interactions (or lack thereof) with the flipped players.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 09:30:26 pm

In light of the recent flips, I would have to put my vote on eithir Urist or Hapah.

It is very WIFOM though, If Hapah was scum, and he knew borno was town, then he really pushed that vote hard and that makes him suspicious now that he has flipped. As a matter though he did directly lead to the lynching of a power role, so my vote is on him. for now.

[Are you implying that Hapah somehow knew borno had a power role?  If so, how do you think he knew?  Also, generally speaking, applying the attribute of WIFOM to your own reasons is a ... poor idea.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 11:33:14 pm

PPS: the Nightkill looks more like a personal kill than a strategic one. Who argued/disapproved/disagreeded with dive the most. Or who was #1 on Dice's list.

[I have the honor of bestowing upon you a piece of advice that has, in all likelihood, been given in almost every beginner's game.  Do not try to reason out why scum picked their target for the NK.  You will most likely be wrong.]


Supercharazad: borno flipped.  Are you going to make with the investigations now?

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:21:08 am

Would it be considered in poor taste to start off with "I told you so" and "You guys are dumb"?
Imma re-read day 1, be back in a bit

[In a beginner's game, yes =P]

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:35:44 am

My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.

[I don't see a vote here, however.  Either you forgot some color or you incorrectly assume votes carry over from the previous day.]


Hapah:  I am getting too sleepy to finish this post right now, but expect that I'm going to knock on your door in the near (read: very likely Monday) future. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 13, 2012, 04:54:01 am

Shakerag: I had IRL stuff to do yesterday.



Jiouky:

Quote

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.
If Hapah flips scum, seriously consider supercharzard as a potential scum candidate.

However I won’t let Dice’s (and his avatar’s) sacrifice stand in vain. I will see these scum lynched.
Vote Hapah

You obviously want Hapah lynched, and if he is scum I will heavily suspect you of being his scumpartner. My reasons?
1: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you could bus him, and because of my "defense" of him earlier, you would have another easy target.
2: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you would have nothing to fear by vowing to vote yourself if he flipped town because it wouldn't be a possiblity.

You're either scummier than a hard water sink, or you're really bad at being town. Vote Joikuy
I'm also going to quote from the Scumhunting bible, which puts  "voting yourself for any reason" as a scumtell. Threats and vows to vote yourself mean that either way he flips you still have scumtells on you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 13, 2012, 04:54:54 am

I just realised I'm commiting chainsaw defense. Huh.
Eh, I'm going to call this justified in any case.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 13, 2012, 08:41:13 am

Nah It is completely justified. I had not considered that aspect. It was a huge flaw in my attack, and really I should not have included the part about super, if only because it misdirects the focus. I still think your scum, but I cannot prove it.

So I guess the lesson here is, when making big posts make sure to read them from a scum's perspective as well.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 13, 2012, 09:04:44 am

I doubt looking at things from the scum's perspective would be too hard for you, scumbucket.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 13, 2012, 10:19:13 am

Just popping in for a quick note, more tomorrow.

Jiokuy:

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 12, 2012, 11:46:09 pm

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.

(http://img.ie/3312b96.gif)
If Hapah flips town, tomorrow is LyLo, and sacrificing yourself would cost town the game if you were town. Think about it: Currently there are five town and two scum. If Hapah gets lynched and flips town, there would be three town and two scum (because nightkill). In order for the town to actually lynch scum, they'd need a unanimous vote for scum to not be able to tie the vote and win. The only way that town would have a chance would be if you were scum, but I doubt you are because staking your life on Hapah being scum tells me that you don't know his alignment for certain. Or you're bussing, but at this point you don't seem to have any reason to do that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 13, 2012, 10:33:32 am

Therefore, he's either stupid or scummier than a hard water sink.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 13, 2012, 11:19:48 am

Never ever underestimate my stupidity. That said, yeah, I have not scumhunted before. I'm assuming I did it wrong?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 13, 2012, 02:39:12 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 13, 2012, 12:37:37 am

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:35:44 am

My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.

[I don't see a vote here, however.  Either you forgot some color or you incorrectly assume votes carry over from the previous day.]

That right there.  Whoops.
Hapah

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 14, 2012, 03:36:21 am

[1] Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris
[3] Hapah: Jiokuy, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[1] Jiokuy: Supercharazad

Not voting: Edio, Hapah

Day ends Tuesday 9:00 PM MST.

Prods may be requested. If I determine that a player with a prod request has not posted within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 14, 2012, 09:55:28 am

Wait, Urist Imiknorris, why are you voting me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 14, 2012, 10:18:21 am

Vote Extend, Hapah has not responded yet and I would like to hear his opinions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 10:47:12 am

[Weekend's over, so I'm expecting to see you all active now.  We've had two flips and pages of discussion, so excuses along the lines of "I don't have anything to go on" are not going to fly.]

[General observation:  phrases along the lines of "if X, then I'll do Y".  For those making them, don't do this.  Because if X happens and you can't/won't do Y, you're likely going to hang.  For those seeing these phrases, generally speaking, don't trust them.  In non-beginner's games this will really show up when you start to see 3rd-party survivors.  "If you don't hang me, I'll help town win."  <couple days later> *backstab* "Sorry, I'm siding with the scumteam now."]

[Supercharazad@184:  I'll grant you that your reasoning in your "2:" point is solid and a good observation, but ... what is your reasoning for why one scum would want to bus another from the start of D2, especially since the town power roles have just been eliminated?]

[Supercharazad@185:  Metaphorically speaking, when everyone is pointing a gun at each other, it's best to not start handing out extra ammo.  Admitting reasoning is weak when FoSing/non-voting is okay if you follow through.  Admitting reasoning is weak when voting = bad.  In this particular case, you shouldn't have mentioned "chainsawing" at all.  Best case: no one notices; you're fine.  Worst case: get called on it.  However, even if it looks like a chainsaw and quacks like a chainsaw, *if* your reasons for voting are air-tight then you'll likely be fine.]

[Jiokuy@186:  See above.  Also, if you think someone is scum, but can't prove it ... what do you think you should be doing next?  What makes you think you have to "read from a scum's perspective" when posting?]

[Jiokuy@190:  Never stop scumhunting.  If you're doing it wrong, the ICs will not neglect to inform you of that fact.  If one of us isn't breathing down your neck, then you're fine.]

[obolisk@191:  Unless it states so in the rules, all votes are wiped at day start.]

[Jiokuy@194:  Day ends Tuesday; no need for an extend yet.  Unless you have a good reason ("I'm going to be gone tomorrow") it makes you seem jumpy/nervous to extend early.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 14, 2012, 10:55:00 am

1: I don't know, but it's the only thing that really makes sense.
2: True, but if I mention that it's justified and the person I'm voting also happens to say it's justified, it's pretty damn hard to say it isn't.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 12:02:05 pm

Hapah:  So, your weak-ass case on borno actually got you to a mislynch.  Congratulations, scum.  Let's detail what you're going to be hanging for today. 

borno's "edit" to his RVS question was inconsequential.  Dopey, sure, but not scummy.  Not answering a question until you've answered his?  Unnoteworthy.  But you vote him for it and get fairly defensive when he responds (IMO appropriately) to you. 

[Also, borno@76, that really wasn't an OMGUS.] 
See the top of Hapah@77 for something more OMGUS-like.

You've got a self-admitted weak case.  You had other players telling you it was a weak case.  Yet you kept your vote on borno the entire time and, more importantly, never really went back to put more pressure on him!  If you had put in as much effort pressuring borno D1 as you did defending your "weak scumtell" to everyone else, I might not be voting you right now. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 01:20:36 pm

Supercharazad:

Quote

I voted against extend because it seemed very likely that he was trying to extend to try and pass away some of those votes, and because there really wasn't any need for an extend.

Which leads to my question. Why are you voting me and ignoring the other person who voted against an extend?

Because you, unlike Jiokuy, hadn't explained why you opposed an extend. Now that you have, unvote.

Shakerag: Nice move there, completely forgetting that oh yeah, you were voting Hapah, and should maybe build a case on him.

obolisk:

Quote

Would it be considered in poor taste to start off with "I told you so" and "You guys are dumb"?

Probably.

Quote

I would also like to clarify something in this post.  I make a clear distinction between a shitty reason and a bullshit reason.  A vote with a shitty reason actually has some basis, however small.  A bullshit vote has NO REAL BASIS.  You are not making votes with shitty reasons, you are making BULLSHIT votes.  That's why I think you're scum.

Who are those last two sentences directed to?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 14, 2012, 03:13:56 pm

Alright, I've got some time. Lots to read through, so let me know if I missed anything.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 11, 2012, 09:30:26 pm

. . .Well. . . Is this a new record?

In light of the recent flips, I would have to put my vote on eithir Urist or Hapah.

It is very WIFOM though, If Hapah was scum, and he knew borno was town, then he really pushed that vote hard and that makes him suspicious now that he has flipped. As a matter though he did directly lead to the lynching of a power role, so my vote is on him. for now.

I'd disagree with this. I knew my case wasn't the strongest, but I felt borno was the best vote of a bad lot. I dont' think I crammed it down anyone's throat, though I did have to defend that vote more than once. And how would I know borno was a power role? It's real unfortunate, but I had no way to know.

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 12, 2012, 09:35:44 am

Well, that was fast.  Okay:
My vote on Hapah still stands, because he's a scummy son of a bitch.  I still say his reasons for voting borno are bullshit.  Beyond that, he was perfectly alright with letting Day 1 end with a no lynch.
In addition to this, Urist looks pretty goddamn suspicious to me.  I think your attack on Borno was also bullshit.  OMGUSing is a scum tell, but in this case, I think it's a null tell, because EVERYONE ATTACKING HIM HAD BULLSHIT REASONS.  Including you.
I would also like to clarify something in this post.  I make a clear distinction between a shitty reason and a bullshit reason.  A vote with a shitty reason actually has some basis, however small.  A bullshit vote has NO REAL BASIS.  You are not making votes with shitty reasons, you are making BULLSHIT votes.  That's why I think you're scum.

So I a "scummy son of a bitch." I know my reasons are weak, and I played it straight. And yeah, I was alright with Day 1 ending in a no-lynch, because this is a beginner's game. Telling people that a D1 lynch is necessary is all fine and well, but experience is the best teacher: And most of us are in this game to learn. I actually wanted to see how it played out, I've never been in a mafia without a D1 lynch. I'm well aware that my actions may be controversial, but there you are.

Jiokuy: Glad to see you getting your hands dirty! Not happy that you're shooting at me, but it's preferable to lurking. I wouldn't say that I redirected anyone to borno. I was asked questions about my actions and opinions, and answered to the best of my ability. Others (Super and Flying, if memory serves. Will have to re-read to confirm) picked up on things that made him borno look scummy, and the things they spotted seemed reasonable (to me, at least). Also...nevermind, Urist already set you straight on the "if he flips town, lynch me" thing. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 12:02:05 pm

Hapah:  So, your weak-ass case on borno actually got you to a mislynch.  Congratulations, scum.  Let's detail what you're going to be hanging for today. 

borno's "edit" to his RVS question was inconsequential.  Dopey, sure, but not scummy.  Not answering a question until you've answered his?  Unnoteworthy.  But you vote him for it and get fairly defensive when he responds (IMO appropriately) to you. 

[Also, borno@76, that really wasn't an OMGUS.] 
See the top of Hapah@77 for something more OMGUS-like.

You've got a self-admitted weak case.  You had other players telling you it was a weak case.  Yet you kept your vote on borno the entire time and, more importantly, never really went back to put more pressure on him!  If you had put in as much effort pressuring borno D1 as you did defending your "weak scumtell" to everyone else, I might not be voting you right now.

Saying I'm going to hang today is a bit premature. Why is everyone so hostile? I haven't even defended myself before this post.

Yes, I knew my case was weak, and I readily admitted it. I kept my vote on borno because it was generating discussion, even if most of it was accusations and suspicions leveled at me. I think anything I did at that point would have been painted as scummy.

More pressure? He's trying really hard to get this guy lynched on no evidence, SCUM.
Less pressure? Apparently that makes me scummy-looking too.
Change my vote? God help me, can you imagine that? "Look, he's trying to get away! LYNCH!!"

Hell, if borno hadn't tried to deflect suspicion every time someone looked at him he'd probably still be alive, but we have to go with what we've got. I'm sorry that he got lynched, but I'm not going to stick my neck in the noose so he can live. I know town's primary concern isn't living, but I'm not going to martyr myself for another person whose alignment I don't know at the time.

If I missed anything, or if you have any follow-up questions, let me know.

I imagine Flying was killed because (s)he was very good at that particular way of questioning that makes you spill your guts to answer the questions. You just get needled and needled, have to answer this legitimate question that that quote taken somewhat out of context and oh yeah, what about this questionable thing you said? It's exhausting to be on the receiving end of that, and when you make a slip Flying would know.

My suspicions are that at least one (MAYBE both, but I find that unlikely) of the people that voted borno are scum. Flying is dead, so that leaves me, Super, and Urist. Signs point to me, apparently, but there you are.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 03:48:29 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 01:20:36 pm

Shakerag: Nice move there, completely forgetting that oh yeah, you were voting Hapah, and should maybe build a case on him.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 13, 2012, 12:37:37 am

Hapah:  I am getting too sleepy to finish this post right now, but expect that I'm going to knock on your door in the near (read: very likely Monday) future. 

Added emphasis.  I wrote up my IC post and decided to put the stuff about Hapah in a separate one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 04:48:58 pm

Quote

I imagine Flying was killed because (s)he was very good at that particular way of questioning that makes you spill your guts to answer the questions. You just get needled and needled, have to answer this legitimate question that that quote taken somewhat out of context and oh yeah, what about this questionable thing you said? It's exhausting to be on the receiving end of that, and when you make a slip Flying would know.

This is a good description of good scumhunting.

Quote from: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 03:48:29 pm

I wrote up my IC post and decided to put the stuff about Hapah in a separate one.

And that took you over an hour to type?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 14, 2012, 06:08:19 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 01:20:36 pm

Quote

I would also like to clarify something in this post.  I make a clear distinction between a shitty reason and a bullshit reason.  A vote with a shitty reason actually has some basis, however small.  A bullshit vote has NO REAL BASIS.  You are not making votes with shitty reasons, you are making BULLSHIT votes.  That's why I think you're scum.

Who are those last two sentences directed to?

You.  You were excusing away your lack of evidence as "Oh, it's only day one, nobody has much of anything to go on day 1".
I'm saying that you didn't have a shitty reason for voting.  In fact, you didn't have any. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 06:11:55 pm

Incorrect. If you'll remember, I stated my reason: He was deflecting suspicion onto whoever attacked him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 14, 2012, 10:36:55 pm

@Hapah so what about Dice. It would seem very convenient that the player whom was hunting you prior to borno's slip up would die on the same night borno flips town no?

aAso, something still seems off about super's posts, but I cannot identify it. Is it that they seems to lack actual content/solidity? Enh it is probably nothing but beginner game jitters. Hell I'm sure I throw 30 dozen tells a post. Dosen't mean I'm not gonna look at you funny though Supercharazad!?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 15, 2012, 12:42:55 am

Hah, just posting to mention how funny it was that no one had posted a 'Bah' post. It's as if this thread is protected with some sort anti-bah thing!


...Damn.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 07:10:42 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 14, 2012, 10:36:55 pm

@Hapah so what about Dice. It would seem very convenient that the player whom was hunting you prior to borno's slip up would die on the same night borno flips town no?

Attempting to glean information from nightkills is beyond pointless, because scum could easily use that to frame someone else.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 15, 2012, 07:50:11 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 06:11:55 pm

Incorrect. If you'll remember, I stated my reason: He was deflecting suspicion onto whoever attacked him.

With good fucking reason.  Everyone was voting him for completely dumbass and shitty reasons.  That makes it a null tell.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 15, 2012, 10:18:12 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 14, 2012, 10:36:55 pm

aAso, something still seems off about super's posts, but I cannot identify it. Is it that they seems to lack actual content/solidity? Enh it is probably nothing but beginner game jitters. Hell I'm sure I throw 30 dozen tells a post. Dosen't mean I'm not gonna look at you funny though Supercharazad!?

So wait, was there meant to be a question following that, or did you just think it would be a good idea to kick a bit of your suspicion onto me, scumbucket?
If you'd voted me there, instead of FoSing me, I'd have a case of OMGUS on you as well as voting with bullshit reasons, leading me to believe you're acting townier than you actually are.

Here's a question for you, if you knew I was scum with total certainty through cheating or something, would you have voted me there instead of the FoS?

What was your reason for FoSing me? Did you have one, or are you just making up mindless bullshit to try and throw some suspicion onto the only person voting you? Scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 15, 2012, 10:51:01 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 04:48:58 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 14, 2012, 03:48:29 pm

I wrote up my IC post and decided to put the stuff about Hapah in a separate one.

And that took you over an hour to type?

I had to do some RL stuff in the interim. 

Quote from: Hapah on May 14, 2012, 03:13:56 pm

I'd disagree with this. I knew my case wasn't the strongest, but I felt borno was the best vote of a bad lot.

So out of all of the players in the game, and with all the other reasons they had for voting whomever they did, you still felt that borno was the best person to keep your vote on? 

Quote from: Hapah on May 14, 2012, 03:13:56 pm

So I a "scummy son of a bitch." I know my reasons are weak, and I played it straight. And yeah, I was alright with Day 1 ending in a no-lynch, because this is a beginner's game. Telling people that a D1 lynch is necessary is all fine and well, but experience is the best teacher: And most of us are in this game to learn. I actually wanted to see how it played out, I've never been in a mafia without a D1 lynch. I'm well aware that my actions may be controversial, but there you are.

[The ICs are experienced, and your teachers.  If we're telling you a D1 no lynch is almost always a bad idea, then you listen.  If you're here to learn, and we're here to teach, but you're not going to listen to us, then what's the point?]
[Experience has also shown that controversial actions will get you lynched.  That's best left for game theory threads, not in the middle of a game.]

Quote from: Hapah on May 14, 2012, 03:13:56 pm

Saying I'm going to hang today is a bit premature. Why is everyone so hostile? I haven't even defended myself before this post.

[Try not to take it personally; this is a game that favors aggression.  I had to get used to it myself when I started.]

Quote from: Hapah on May 14, 2012, 03:13:56 pm

Yes, I knew my case was weak, and I readily admitted it. I kept my vote on borno because it was generating discussion, even if most of it was accusations and suspicions leveled at me. I think anything I did at that point would have been painted as scummy.

More pressure? He's trying really hard to get this guy lynched on no evidence, SCUM.
Less pressure? Apparently that makes me scummy-looking too.
Change my vote? God help me, can you imagine that? "Look, he's trying to get away! LYNCH!!"

Remember what we've been trying to impress upon you this entire time?  Active scumhunting makes you not look like scum.  But, I'll address your options individually anyway:
-More pressure: If you get results, great.  You look like you're aggressively scumhunting.  Not getting results?  Maybe that's an indication you're barking up the wrong tree. 
-Less pressure: I can't really think of a good situation where this would be beneficial.
-Changing vote: If your reasoning is weak, and you're not getting anything else to continue a case with, changing your vote is not scummy. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 15, 2012, 01:42:08 pm

Shakerag: Fair enough.

Jiokuy: As Urist said, only the scum knows why they chose their target. I'd guess it was because Flying demonstrated a talent for scumhunting, but it's only a guess.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2012, 02:37:58 pm

[1] Shakerag: Urist Imiknorris
[3] Hapah: Jiokuy, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[1] Jiokuy: Supercharazad

Not voting: Edio, Hapah

Day ends Today 9:00 PM MST. 1 vote for an extension. 3 are needed to extend the day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 03:37:56 pm

Mod: Prod Edio please. He's made all of one post.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 04:35:32 pm

Unvote, extend.

Supercharazad: Panicking much?

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 15, 2012, 10:18:12 am

So wait, was there meant to be a question following that, or did you just think it would be a good idea to kick a bit of your suspicion onto me, scumbucket?

"I suspect you but don't know why" is an attempt to deflect suspicion onto you?

Quote

If you'd voted me there, instead of FoSing me, I'd have a case of OMGUS on you as well as voting with bullshit reasons, leading me to believe you're acting townier than you actually are.

Translation: "You didn't throw off a particular scumtell, so I think you're arse-covering scum."

Quote

Here's a question for you, if you knew I was scum with total certainty through cheating or something, would you have voted me there instead of the FoS?

Please bear in mind that at this point "something" can only mean "by being your scumbuddy," which would likely have a very different answer than the cheating case. What is the point of this question?

Quote

What was your reason for FoSing me? Did you have one, or are you just making up mindless bullshit to try and throw some suspicion onto the only person voting you? Scum.

Exactly how does his FoS work to deflect suspicion? It's a statement, not an argument. It has zero persuasive ability.

obolisk:

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 15, 2012, 07:50:11 am

With good fucking reason.  Everyone was voting him for completely dumbass and shitty reasons.  That makes it a null tell.

As you said, there is a distinction between shitty reasons and bullshit reasons. So how was borno's response a null tell?

Hapah: Who do you suspect and why aren't you voting them?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 15, 2012, 05:16:35 pm

Urist: I'd guess you or Super, but I unfortunately don't have the time for a re-read right now.

Supercharazad seems a bit more likely, but I don't have anything I can hang a hat on. Apologies that I can't give more, but RL is a piece of work right now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2012, 05:49:07 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 03:37:56 pm

Mod: Prod Edio please. He's made all of one post.

Already done.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 07:51:05 pm

I probably won't be able to post much tomorrow/Thursday. I will if I get the chance. (homeward bound)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2012, 11:03:47 pm

The kitties rand around all day long and then they figured out who the bad kittehs were.

"You are the bad kitties!" One said to Hapah.

"No I'm not." He said. But nobody believed him.

So then they found his Not-Bad-Kitteh Card but it was too late.

---

[1] Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris
[3] Hapah: Jiokuy, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[1] Jiokuy: Supercharazad

Not voting: Hapah, Edio

Hapah has been lynched. He was a Hungreh Kitteh (Town)!

It is now Night 2. It will last until 9:00 PM MST Tomorrow. Get your actions in!

Edio needs a replacement.

Reminder: No talking.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2012, 12:00:13 pm

Everyone finishes cuddling with teh humenz and come back to talk about the missing cheeseburgers.

But Edio is missing!

"Maybe he is still cuddling with a teh humen?"

"He doesn't have a human!"

"Oh noooooooooooo"

---

Edio has been nightkilled. He was a Hungreh Kitteh (Town)!

Day 3 has begun. Day 3 ends Monday 9PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 16, 2012, 12:12:15 pm

All of my reasons for Jiouky still stand, and whatever small doubts I may have had have been washed away due to Hapah's townienes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 16, 2012, 12:18:03 pm

[Well everyone, welcome to LYLO.  There are three town-aligned players and two scum-aligned players left.  This means that if a scum-aligned player isn't lynched today, the game is over and the scumteam wins.  The day ending in a tie vote (or if no lynch gets a majority vote for some odd reason) will cause the same result.]

[Generally speaking, this is a good time for a roleclaim, but seeing as all town powerroles have been eliminated ... there's really no point.]

[Finally, the absolutely most important bit of advice for today.  When it is LYLO it is of utmost importance that you be very active.  Inactivity at LYLO will often spell doom for whichever team you're aligned with (although, historically, it's town that gets screwed).]

[I suggest you all do a re-read of the game to figure out who you think is scum.]

[P.S.  Activity, activity, activity!]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 16, 2012, 02:30:03 pm

My vote remains on Supercharazad. Stop ignoring me.

Also, everything Shakerag said. Especially the part about activity. There is no room for failure.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 16, 2012, 04:02:03 pm

Huh? Have you asked me any questions?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 16, 2012, 04:15:44 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 04:35:32 pm

Supercharazad: Panicking much?

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 15, 2012, 10:18:12 am

So wait, was there meant to be a question following that, or did you just think it would be a good idea to kick a bit of your suspicion onto me, scumbucket?

"I suspect you but don't know why" is an attempt to deflect suspicion onto you?

Quote

If you'd voted me there, instead of FoSing me, I'd have a case of OMGUS on you as well as voting with bullshit reasons, leading me to believe you're acting townier than you actually are.

Translation: "You didn't throw off a particular scumtell, so I think you're arse-covering scum."

Quote

Here's a question for you, if you knew I was scum with total certainty through cheating or something, would you have voted me there instead of the FoS?

Please bear in mind that at this point "something" can only mean "by being your scumbuddy," which would likely have a very different answer than the cheating case. What is the point of this question?

Quote

What was your reason for FoSing me? Did you have one, or are you just making up mindless bullshit to try and throw some suspicion onto the only person voting you? Scum.

Exactly how does his FoS work to deflect suspicion? It's a statement, not an argument. It has zero persuasive ability.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 17, 2012, 07:06:40 am

Hey Obolisk get your scummy butt out here. You have been lurking most of the game, and all of your votes are late on bandwagons.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 17, 2012, 10:24:14 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 16, 2012, 04:15:44 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 15, 2012, 04:35:32 pm

Supercharazad: Panicking much?

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 15, 2012, 10:18:12 am

So wait, was there meant to be a question following that, or did you just think it would be a good idea to kick a bit of your suspicion onto me, scumbucket?

"I suspect you but don't know why" is an attempt to deflect suspicion onto you?

Quote

If you'd voted me there, instead of FoSing me, I'd have a case of OMGUS on you as well as voting with bullshit reasons, leading me to believe you're acting townier than you actually are.

Translation: "You didn't throw off a particular scumtell, so I think you're arse-covering scum."

Quote

Here's a question for you, if you knew I was scum with total certainty through cheating or something, would you have voted me there instead of the FoS?

Please bear in mind that at this point "something" can only mean "by being your scumbuddy," which would likely have a very different answer than the cheating case. What is the point of this question?

Quote

What was your reason for FoSing me? Did you have one, or are you just making up mindless bullshit to try and throw some suspicion onto the only person voting you? Scum.

Exactly how does his FoS work to deflect suspicion? It's a statement, not an argument. It has zero persuasive ability.

1: Well, I've voted him and if he can get people to suspect me and thus ignore him, he can avoid being lynched and thus the scum would win. It also happens to be shitty reasoning, which furthers my argument against him.
2: No, he threw off the "acting too townie" scumtell.
3: It's a good way to get people to focus on the person you are FoSing, instead of yourself.


So wait, I have a question for you. What actual reasons do you have for voting me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 17, 2012, 10:53:57 am

Bullshit.
Wrong. Also bullshit.
Bullshit.
Because you're scum.

1. Ask yourself: If someone else was voting him, and he FoS'd them with no case, would you look harder at him or the person voting him?
2. The "Too Townie" scumtell is a fickle beast. It's not that someone isn't acting scummy, it's that they're going out of their way to avoid scumtells or trying to tell everyone how town they are. Also, an OMGUS does not necessarily require a vote - the point of an OMGUS is that the accused attacks his accuser for daring to accuse him. Also also, an FoS is mostly used when the user has a suspicion, but it either isn't as great as the person they're voting already or doesn't have enough supporting evidence to justify a vote. In this case, I'm fairly certain it was both.
3. Not without a case attached, it isn't.

And yeah, because you're scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 17, 2012, 11:04:30 am

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 17, 2012, 07:06:40 am

Hey Obolisk get your scummy butt out here. You have been lurking most of the game, and all of your votes are late on bandwagons.

I'm sorry, what?  How in the hell have I been lurking?  I'm re-reading this shit, trying to figure out who the scum is.  The fact that Hapah flipped town means I need to re-evaluate everything.  Also, having 3 projects at once doesn't leave you with much time.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 17, 2012, 11:11:41 am

Huh, I think I actually get what your saying there about lurking.  Here's the deal.  Unlike most everyone else (aparently) I have much more time on the weekends, and not as much on weekdays.  Thus I will appear less active because I either don't have time to post a ton, or because nobody else has time to respond to me quickly enough.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 17, 2012, 12:24:58 pm

[Activity everyone.  The outcome of the game may be decided by what happens today.  Post like you want to win.]

Supercharazad:  Let's hear your case against Jiokuy again.  If you're convinced he's scum, then sell it to me like you're going door-to-door and working on commission.

Jiokuy:  Do you think obolisk is the scummiest player right now, or is that a pressure vote?  Who is your scummiest pick and why? 

obolisk:  [If you can't post with quantity, then make sure you post with quality.  But either way, it's LYLO, make sure you post.]

Urist:  I've been too busy trying to herd these newbies to notice until now that you've barely directed anything my way outside of a vote for (IMO) derpy reasons.  Cherrypicking the easy ones, scum? 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 17, 2012, 04:12:31 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 13, 2012, 04:54:01 am

Jiouky:

Quote

If Hapah flips town, Lynch me. I will personally vote myself if Hapah is town.
Remember we have 7 players if we lose 2 more the game is not lost, but if we mislynch 3 times, we lose.
If Hapah flips scum, seriously consider supercharzard as a potential scum candidate.

However I won’t let Dice’s (and his avatar’s) sacrifice stand in vain. I will see these scum lynched.
Vote Hapah

You obviously want Hapah lynched, and if he is scum I will heavily suspect you of being his scumpartner. My reasons?
1: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you could bus him, and because of my "defense" of him earlier, you would have another easy target.
2: If you were scum and knew he was your scumpartner, you would have nothing to fear by vowing to vote yourself if he flipped town because it wouldn't be a possiblity.

You're either scummier than a hard water sink, or you're really bad at being town. Vote Joikuy
I'm also going to quote from the Scumhunting bible, which puts  "voting yourself for any reason" as a scumtell. Threats and vows to vote yourself mean that either way he flips you still have scumtells on you.

This. A large pile of scumtells.

There's:

Threatening the town
Threatening to vote himself

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 14, 2012, 10:36:55 pm

aAso, something still seems off about super's posts, but I cannot identify it. Is it that they seems to lack actual content/solidity? Enh it is probably nothing but beginner game jitters. Hell I'm sure I throw 30 dozen tells a post. Dosen't mean I'm not gonna look at you funny though Supercharazad!?

FoSing without any reason or cause, most likely to deflect the suspicion I placed on him prior to this. (possible OMGUS here)

Not posting for two days, but being online earlier on

Votes Borno (who flipped town) because he was actually scumhunting at the start

Quote

(3) not voting who he thought was scum, but to "keep the conflict balanced".  And, of course, (4) throwing in the towel like the guilty scumbag he is.

That one's stolen off Shakerag, but still applies here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 17, 2012, 09:05:39 pm

Shakerag: I haven't seen anything really objectionable from you. I see nothing that warrants questioning.

Super:

Quote

There's:

Threatening the town
Threatening to vote himself

How did he threaten the town? More detail here please.
Why do you think he didn't vote himself for being wrong about Hapah?

Quote

FoSing without any reason or cause, most likely to deflect the suspicion I placed on him prior to this. (possible OMGUS here)

See my last post.

Quote

Not posting for two days, but being online earlier on

When he gave up because his lynch was imminent? I think I remember what you're talking about, as I was voting him for that time.

Quote

Votes Borno (who flipped town) because he was actually scumhunting at the start

You mean when everyone told him he was a moron?

When dealing with first-timers, it might be a good idea to weigh recent actions more heavily, as they're probably going to be a complete moron early on. In this case, I see Jiokuy as a townie who had no idea what to do at the start, but shaped up when he started figuring out how the game worked and how to hunt better.

Your case is crap. Make it better or tell me who your buddy is.

Jiokuy, Obolisk: Top two scumpicks and reasons?

Shakerag: Why aren't you voting?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 18, 2012, 09:56:13 am

Hey Super, I'll admit my ploy at pressuring Hapah was a bit of a failure (I did not change my vote in time :I), but that's all that was, a bold attempt to pressure Hapah into revealing a tell. It does appear that you are fishing for some bait to end the day with, find some real proof.

Obolisk I would be very interested in your opinion, If you had to vote Urist or Shakerag as scum, who would you vote?

@Jim, Urist, or Rag, is it reliable to use information from our role PM's as a method of scum hunting, I can assume that we have acquired similar or identical role PM's, scum excluded. Is counting the number of words in a role PM a violation of the no direcly quoting role PM clause. We do not have any power roles, so there should be 3 town PM's and two scum ones.

Also id I am not mistake due to the nature of BM one of our IC's is likely scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 18, 2012, 10:11:09 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 17, 2012, 09:05:39 pm

Shakerag: I haven't seen anything really objectionable from you. I see nothing that warrants questioning.

Fair enough, but I'm feeling like you're avoiding me intentionally for some reason.  If you're scum, and I was in your position, I know I wouldn't want to attract undue attention from the other IC. 

So, if you're so certain Supercharazad is scum, who's your pick as his scumbuddy?

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 17, 2012, 09:05:39 pm

Shakerag: Why aren't you voting?

-I'm waiting on Jiokuy to answer my questions and on obolisk to post something substantial, in particular.
-In general, I want to see these nublets post some more because:
 a) It's LYLO, and posting more is what they had damn well better do.
 b) I'm not here to play the game for them
 c) I want to see them post first so as to encourage thier own arguments and not just play "follow the IC".


PPE:  Jiokuy, you're not answering my question to you.

[Jiokuy:  I'm not 100% sure if that would technically be against the rules, but there's no guarantee that all town-aligned players received the exact same role PM anyway.]

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 18, 2012, 09:56:13 am

Also id I am not mistake due to the nature of BM one of our IC's is likely scum.

[Not pictured:  Reasons]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 18, 2012, 10:28:16 am

@Shakerag I was attempting to pressure Obolisk into speaking more, he has not been active enough for me to determine his alignment.

My role PM was very spartan, and it would not surprise me if the town all got the same PM, but I will avoid using this avenue as it would seem a bit like breaking the rules of the game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 10:56:34 am

My top two scum picks are urist and super for going after borno like they were.  I still maintain they had no goddamn case against him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 11:02:28 am

The fuck? I removed my vote from Borno the second he answered my questions. I'm one of the few people that didn't
join the Borno-wagon.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 11:31:26 am

Jiokuy:

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 18, 2012, 09:56:13 am

Also id I am not mistake due to the nature of BM one of our IC's is likely scum.

Please do explain.

Shakerag:

Quote from: Shakerag on May 18, 2012, 10:11:09 am

Fair enough, but I'm feeling like you're avoiding me intentionally for some reason.  If you're scum, and I was in your position, I know I wouldn't want to attract undue attention from the other IC.

Your reasoning is understandable but your feeling is incorrect.

Quote

So, if you're so certain Supercharazad is scum, who's your pick as his scumbuddy?

Either obolisk or you, leaning far toward obolisk.

Speaking of obolisk:

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 10:56:34 am

My top two scum picks are urist and super for going after borno like they were.  I still maintain they had no goddamn case against him.

I smell a distancing attempt between you and Super. Also, you gained no new information D2? Nothing at all?

Super:

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 11:02:28 am

The fuck? I removed my vote from Borno the second he answered my questions. I'm one of the few people that didn't
join the Borno-wagon.

LIES.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 10, 2012, 11:35:30 pm

[4] borno: Hapah, Supercharazad, Flying Dice, Urist Imiknorris

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 11:54:20 am

Eh? Okay, so I'm confused here. I thought I'd moved my vote to Jiokuy by that point.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 18, 2012, 11:55:50 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 11:02:28 am

The fuck? I removed my vote from Borno the second he answered my questions. I'm one of the few people that didn't
join the Borno-wagon.

That's funny, Supercharazad, because I can't seem to find an instance of you acknowledging borno answering your questions, nor you unvoting. 

You had seven posts before borno was lynched.  In which one of these did this happen?

[1] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3267831#msg3267831)
[2] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3267995#msg3267995)
[3] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3270707#msg3270707)
[4] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3270851#msg3270851)
[5] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3270989#msg3270989)
[6] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3271280#msg3271280)
[7] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3271461#msg3271461)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 12:01:29 pm

In that case I'm confused as hell and I'm trying to figure out what the hell happened back there.




Though I'm not quite ready to give up on this, I'm pretty damn sure you guys are going to lynch me now. This isn't intended as a threat to the town, but if I am lynched, then we lose without having taken out a single scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 18, 2012, 12:16:32 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 12:01:29 pm

Though I'm not quite ready to give up on this, I'm pretty damn sure you guys are going to lynch me now. This isn't intended as a threat to the town, but if I am lynched, then we lose without having taken out a single scum.

[If you're not going to throw in the towel (which is the correct course of action), then you need to counter the case against you and solidify your case on who you think is scum.  If your arguments for someone being scum are strong enough, that may get people to vote your target as well.]

[Also, statements along the lines of "if I get lynched, then <something bad>" are generally poorly received and often seen as scummy.  Instead of telling everyone they're making a mistake, show them that they're making a mistake by making a brilliant case as to why someone else is certainly scum.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 12:39:42 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 11:31:26 am

Speaking of obolisk:

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 10:56:34 am

My top two scum picks are urist and super for going after borno like they were.  I still maintain they had no goddamn case against him.

I smell a distancing attempt between you and Super. Also, you gained no new information D2? Nothing at all?

Urist, what the hell are you smoking?  Since when have I been working with super?  I've been suspicious of him since that bullshit with borno.  Consider this a lynch vote, scum.

Super, from where I'm standing, you started the damn wagon.  You weren't the first, or even second, to vote, but it was you who came out and started digging up idiotic reasons to vote borno.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 01:11:41 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 12:39:42 pm

Consider this a lynch vote, scum.

Unsurprising. As soon as you get a chance to move your suspicions you do. Why are you voting me when Super (your other prime suspect) just made a glaring slipup and provably lied to you specifically about his vote?

Quote

Since when have I been working with super?  I've been suspicious of him since that bullshit with borno. 

I see no mention of Supercharazad at all that entire day, although you do call out everyone else voting borno. If you actually suspected him, why ignore him?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 01:21:13 pm

EBWOP: Examining how players interact with one another can provide valuable information. It tends to be somewhat more reliable after someone actually flips scum, but in this case I feel it's fairly damning.

Also, again, obolisk: You gained nothing from D2?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 18, 2012, 01:35:46 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 12, 2012, 02:33:11 am

Which leads to my question. Why are you voting me and ignoring the other pweron who voted against an extend?

I'm going to dig this up here, because I just realised: You never answered this, Urist.

The way I see it, you were trying to get me lynched back then, and you never actually took your vote off me that round. Seems like a failed attempt to start a bandwagon against me and get me lynched, doesn't it? You never actually did question or vote the other people who voted against extend, unless I'm very much mistaken.


Checking the vote in which we lynched Borno, you were also the last person to jump onto the bandwagon (if the votecount isn't telling me the wrong things) and you did so because he didn't answer your question. In my eyes, it seems like pretty feeble reasoning to have someone lynched by.



Care for some explanations?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 02:12:05 pm

Supercharazad:

Quote

The way I see it, you were trying to get me lynched back then, and you never actually took your vote off me that round. Seems like a failed attempt to start a bandwagon against me and get me lynched, doesn't it? You never actually did question or vote the other people who voted against extend, unless I'm very much mistaken.

You mean this?

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 01:20:36 pm

Supercharazad:

Quote

I voted against extend because it seemed very likely that he was trying to extend to try and pass away some of those votes, and because there really wasn't any need for an extend.

Which leads to my question. Why are you voting me and ignoring the other person who voted against an extend?

Because you, unlike Jiokuy, hadn't explained why you opposed an extend. Now that you have, unvote.

You and Jiokuy were the only two people to oppose an extend, and I did (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3271614#msg3271614) question Jiokuy about it, and his answer satisfied me.

And also, I did unvote. See my quote. I voted you again later because you were being panicky about getting attention. Town shouldn't be worried about having someone focused on them - they're worried about finding scum and lynching them. Are you certain that your targets are always scum? No? Neither are the people questioning you, save for special circumstances (cop with scum inspection). So why get defensive about being voted or questioned? It makes little sense from a town perspective.

Quote

Checking the vote in which we lynched Borno, you were also the last person to jump onto the bandwagon (if the votecount isn't telling me the wrong things) and you did so because he didn't answer your question. In my eyes, it seems like pretty feeble reasoning to have someone lynched by.

The question you're referring to was "why do you suspect everyone who attacks you?" and was accompanied by an FoS because I didn't want to unvote Jiokuy until he started contributing again. Once Jiokuy started posting again, I moved my vote to borno.

Explanations cared for and given.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 18, 2012, 02:15:31 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 18, 2012, 09:56:13 am

@Jim, Urist, or Rag, is it reliable to use information from our role PM's as a method of scum hunting, I can assume that we have acquired similar or identical role PM's, scum excluded. Is counting the number of words in a role PM a violation of the no direcly quoting role PM clause. We do not have any power roles, so there should be 3 town PM's and two scum ones.

You'd be right, and it wouldn't be a violation of the no direct quotes from the moderator, but in the event that you try to do this I will provide the scum team the default vanilla town role PM so that the scum team can convincingly fake claim in situations like that.

---

Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag
Jiokuy: Supercharazad
obolisk0430: Jiokuy
Urist Imiknorris: obolisk0430

Day ends Monday 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 09:04:00 pm

Urist, my supsision has been on you and Hapah since day 1.  It's regretable that Hapah turned out to be town, but that doesn't change the fact that almost EVERYTHING I've read from you that wasn't green was COMPLETE BULLSHIT.  That's why I'm voting you, and not super.  I have a very low tolorance for bullshit in any form.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 09:23:07 pm

I see. So you think I'm bullshitting, hence your vote. Is provably, objectively lying (yes, emphasized again) not as great an offense? If it is, why aren't you voting Super, and if it isn't, why not?

Also, examples of such "bullshit" please. The more the merrier You want to convince others I'm the correct choice to lynch, don't you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 19, 2012, 05:29:45 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 18, 2012, 09:23:07 pm

I see. So you think I'm bullshitting, hence your vote. Is provably, objectively lying (yes, emphasized again) not as great an offense? If it is, why aren't you voting Super, and if it isn't, why not?

Also, examples of such "bullshit" please. The more the merrier You want to convince others I'm the correct choice to lynch, don't you?

'Kay

Here's your first piece of bullshit.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 09, 2012, 03:05:25 pm

borno, why do you suspect everyone who attacks you?

Then this

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 10, 2012, 04:14:42 pm

Quote

Urist is also just shooting off bullshit.  Borno has completely good reasons for acting suspicious of the people voting him: those people have no good reasons what so ever.

News flash: Voting someone D1 for shitty reasons isn't scummy. Suspecting someone for doing so is. Unless scum make a massive slip up like claiming scum, there probably won't be any good reasons for voting someone D1. I seem to remember having said this before.

You're chainsawing for borno awfully hard, aren't you?

Then this

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 14, 2012, 06:11:55 pm

Incorrect. If you'll remember, I stated my reason: He was deflecting suspicion onto whoever attacked him.

How's all of that?  In summery, you vote start going after borno for being suspicious of everyone attacking him.  This is bullshit, because EVERYTHING was being built off of Hapah's argument.  Which was bullshit.  Therefor, your arguments against him, and every
defence you have given for your arguments, are bullshit.  That is why I am voting you.  You have been spouting crap since Day 1.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 19, 2012, 05:34:52 pm

You got the green text, but ignored the black.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 19, 2012, 06:56:09 pm

I thought I made my answer clear, but I guess not.  He has been lying, yes, but you've been pulling crap for longer than he has.  I'll vote him if you can convince me you're not scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 19, 2012, 07:01:41 pm

I'm going to go ahead and quote you:

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 18, 2012, 12:39:42 pm

Super, from where I'm standing, you started the damn wagon.  You weren't the first, or even second, to vote, but it was you who came out and started digging up idiotic reasons to vote borno.

So I've been pulling crap for longer? You just don't want your buddy lynched.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 19, 2012, 07:17:25 pm

Oh, thanks for reminding me.  You're lying too, with this bullshit about me being buddies with super.  Thanks for clearing the last bit of doubt I had left, scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 20, 2012, 04:49:53 am

Though right now both me and obolisk look scummy as hell, I'm going to go ahead and say our dear friend Urist  is scum.

All my money on him being scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 09:35:30 am

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 20, 2012, 04:49:53 am

Though right now both me and obolisk look scummy as hell, I'm going to go ahead and say our dear friend Urist  is scum.

All my money on him being scum.

An OMGUS with no reasoning given? You're just digging yourself deeper.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 20, 2012, 09:38:01 am

Hey, Urist.  Answer my goddamn question.

 >:(

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 10:15:03 am

Which question? I've answered them all as far as I can tell.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 20, 2012, 11:22:18 am

Where are you getting the idea that super and I are buddies?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 20, 2012, 02:42:35 pm

Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag
obolisk0430: Jiokuy
Urist Imiknorris: obolisk0430, Supercharazad

Day ends Tomorrow 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 20, 2012, 11:22:18 am

Where are you getting the idea that super and I are buddies?

You claim he's one of your prime suspects when you haven't been questioning him at all.
You vote your other "prime suspect" when it is pointed out that super's made a glaring error.
You cite reasoning for that vote that contradicts your earlier statements.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 21, 2012, 08:08:02 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You claim he's one of your prime suspects when you haven't been questioning him at all.

Yeah, I guess I haven't.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You vote your other "prime suspect" when it is pointed out that super's made a glaring error.

Nope.  I was voting you befor your pathetic redirect attempt.  And, you were allready saying we were buddies before that too.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You cite reasoning for that vote that contradicts your earlier statements.

And what contradiction would that be?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2012, 12:08:27 pm

Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag
obolisk0430: Jiokuy
Urist Imiknorris: obolisk0430, Supercharazad

Day ends Today 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 12:25:26 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 21, 2012, 08:08:02 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You claim he's one of your prime suspects when you haven't been questioning him at all.

Yeah, I guess I haven't.

And I saw that as a distancing attempt, so I made the accusation and pointed out Super's lie.

Quote

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You vote your other "prime suspect" when it is pointed out that super's made a glaring error.

Nope.  I was voting you befor your pathetic redirect attempt.  And, you were allready saying we were buddies before that too.

Then you vote me for daring to accuse you of being Super's buddy.

Quote

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You cite reasoning for that vote that contradicts your earlier statements.

And what contradiction would that be?

That I've been bullshitting for longer than Super's been, when you claimed that Super was the one who "started the damn wagon" on borno D1 (emphasis yours).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 02:18:05 pm

Extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 21, 2012, 02:51:32 pm

One vote for extension. One more needed to extend the day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 05:57:59 pm

The vote is tied, and the day ends in four hours.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 09:10:46 pm

*tick tock*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:12:13 pm

Well shoot. Sorry I had an unexpected loss of internet over the weekend, damn beavers. And now the problem we have 2 votes on two guys. hmm. So if who we lynch turn scum we know who to target next no, otherwise we lose yes?

Unvote, Vote Urist

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 09:14:14 pm

Wow, people are ignoring a lot of giant slip in favor of a little gut feeling up in here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

ok now that we have a small chance of not losing, as opposed to none I can try to explain.

IMHO the scummiest players of the game would be Obolisk and Shakerag, but I do not have the time to make a case to send 3 votes their way sadly.

So deciding between Urist our valiant IC and Super, the guy who repeatedly attacked me.

Having looked over Super's posts he in all instances seems to be honestly scumhunting, overall unless he is secretly Toaster, that is a supervillian mastermind, or something I sincerely doubt he is scum.

Now honestly given a choice i would rather vote Shakerag than Urist, but that is not an option at this point.

To add to it, Urist has been pressuring a motion, and while this might be seen as a town tell in that he desired someone to be lynched before we lose, the fact that I am the deciding vote and that super has been poking me post of the Day leads me to suspect he expected my to vote super. <- all hypothesis.

I am interested in learning who the scum were.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:24:10 pm

and now I look like an idiot, seeing as my clock read 915 at the time of this I thought there was less time than expected and rushed through P6 that is posts 240-300. I am deeply sorry for that.

Unvote, Vote Super[unvote]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 21, 2012, 09:26:44 pm

Wait, is Jiokuy voting for Super now?  What's up with that thing at the end of his vote bit?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 21, 2012, 09:27:25 pm

Oh yeah, also, EXTEND

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:29:17 pm

Sorry for so many posts, finally got done reading through.

Super, #1 rule to mafia. Town do/should not lie. it will in most all situations lead too a bad outcome for town if you are town / a good outcome for scum. e.g. it is a scummy move.

So how does Scum IC work anyways? I'm assuming they have some sort of mentor?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:32:57 pm

Wow I am hitting post too fast tonight, the thing at the end of my vote is messed up tagging, that is a vote for Super, also do we want and extend? as far as I can tell we probably are not going to get much more than what we have given more time?

I'll abstain from the extend.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 21, 2012, 09:36:01 pm

The extend went through when obolisk voted it.

Quote

IMHO the scummiest players of the game would be Obolisk and Shakerag, but I do not have the time to make a case to send 3 votes their way sadly.

Now you do. It'll give us something to think about tonight.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Tiruin on May 21, 2012, 10:45:02 pm

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

...Toaster...

You can't suspect a non-player.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 22, 2012, 07:40:56 am

I'll re-read everything, and then make up my mind about Urist vs Super.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 22, 2012, 08:31:39 am

Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag, Jiokuy
Urist Imiknorris: obolisk0430, Supercharazad

Day ends Yesterday 9:00 PM MST. Two votes for an extension, two needed to extend the day.

Day has been extended to Thursday 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jiokuy on May 22, 2012, 09:35:16 am

Unvote, Vote Jiokuy

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 22, 2012, 10:07:42 am

[So you all opted for an extension.  Let's see you use it.]

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 21, 2012, 08:08:02 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 20, 2012, 07:46:13 pm

You claim he's one of your prime suspects when you haven't been questioning him at all.

Yeah, I guess I haven't.

Way to follow through here.  You're not exactly making me feel like what Urist is saying about you is off the mark.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:12:13 pm

And now the problem we have 2 votes on two guys. hmm. So if who we lynch turn scum we know who to target next no, otherwise we lose yes?

Unvote, Vote Urist

What the hell is this crap?  Where are your reas...

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

ok now that we have a small chance of not losing, as opposed to none I can try to explain.

... okay. 

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

IMHO the scummiest players of the game would be Obolisk and Shakerag, but I do not have the time to make a case to send 3 votes their way sadly.

... wait, what?  Where in the hell is this coming from now?  With everything that's been going back and forth this last day of the game, you're putting me and obolisk as scummier than Urist or Supercharazad?  Luckily for you there's an extension, so I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

Having looked over Super's posts he in all instances seems to be honestly scumhunting, overall unless he is secretly Toaster, that is a supervillian mastermind, or something I sincerely doubt he is scum.

And what Urist pointed out about Supercharazad is irrelevant ... how?

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

Now honestly given a choice i would rather vote Shakerag than Urist, but that is not an option at this point.

All of my WTF.  Is my head screwed on correctly?  Because I don't remember hearing anything about this before now. 

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:21:37 pm

To add to it, Urist has been pressuring a motion, and while this might be seen as a town tell in that he desired someone to be lynched before we lose, the fact that I am the deciding vote and that super has been poking me post of the Day leads me to suspect he expected my to vote super. <- all hypothesis.

I am interested in learning who the scum were.

"A motion"?  Also, it took me a while to parse what you were saying here.  I think I see what you were getting at, but the reasoning feels weak to me.  Wouldn't Super/obolisk be expecting you to vote Urist? 

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 21, 2012, 09:29:17 pm

Sorry for so many posts, finally got done reading through.

Super, #1 rule to mafia. Town do/should not lie. it will in most all situations lead too a bad outcome for town if you are town / a good outcome for scum. e.g. it is a scummy move.

So how does Scum IC work anyways? I'm assuming they have some sort of mentor?

[This is good and all, but just because you feel you've found scum doesn't mean you're off the hook for the day.  There are two scum left, so assuming scum is lynched today, the game will go on, and the other scum needs to be found as well.]

[Also, I'm not sure what you're asking about scum IC.  In a beginner's game, there are two scum, and a non-playing IC is assigned to coach the scumteam in the scumchat.]

Quote from: Tiruin on May 21, 2012, 10:45:02 pm

You can't suspect a non-player.

[Hush, you.  I think he was joking, anyway.]

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 22, 2012, 07:40:56 am

I'll re-read everything, and then make up my mind about Urist vs Super.

I'm not necessarily certain this is the case, but saying this without addressing Urist's last post to you comes across to me as "Oh shit, I need to bus my scumbuddy and distance myself while doing so."  I had you pegged as town for most of the game in my head, but now I'm wondering if you're getting the LYLO jitters. 


PPE:

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 22, 2012, 09:35:16 am

Unvote, Vote Jiokuy

[I can't even fathom what you're about here.  Voting one's self is nearly universially seen as scummy, and there is especially no reason to do so in a beginner's game.]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 10:48:10 am

Jiokuy:

Quote from: Jiokuy on May 22, 2012, 09:35:16 am

Unvote, Vote Jiokuy

The fuck.

Quote

So how does Scum IC work anyways? I'm assuming they have some sort of mentor?

Toaster advises the scum over radio scumchat.

Shakerag:

Quote

... wait, what?  Where in the hell is this coming from now?  With everything that's been going back and forth this last day of the game, you're putting me and obolisk as scummier than Urist or Supercharazad?  Luckily for you there's an extension, so I'd love to hear your reasoning.

a) How am I scummy? Your own words, please.
b) He sort of answered that when he voted Super.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 22, 2012, 10:53:49 am

Fuck it, time to follow Herr Dakerion's bible.


Unvote, Vote Jiokuy: What the flying fuck are you doing voting yourself?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 22, 2012, 11:32:37 am

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 10:48:10 am

Shakerag:

Quote

... wait, what?  Where in the hell is this coming from now?  With everything that's been going back and forth this last day of the game, you're putting me and obolisk as scummier than Urist or Supercharazad?  Luckily for you there's an extension, so I'd love to hear your reasoning.

a) How am I scummy? Your own words, please.
b) He sort of answered that when he voted Super.

a) Oh, hmm, I guess that wasn't terribly clear.  I wasn't saying that you were scummy, per se, but that it seemed odd for Jiokuy to pop up and basically go "hmm, there's a lot of posts as to why Urist is scummy, and a lot of posts as to why Supercharazad is scummy, but I think these other two people are scummiest" and not exactly detail why he thought so. 

Interlude: Interesting wording on your question, Urist.  If you had said something more like "Why do you think Supercharazad and I are scummier than obolisk and yourself?" I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but I'm getting the feeling that you're concerned about appearances.  Why didn't you switch your vote to Jiokuy after he voted himself?

b) Yeah, I was responding to posts in order without really looking ahead.  I decided to leave it in because I wanted to hear his reasoning at the time he said that regardless. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 22, 2012, 11:37:45 am

Allright, so I reviewed stuff.  Unvote.  Vote Super.

Honestly, I think both you and Super are scum, Urist, but, upon reflection, I'm going to vote super.  He started that crap with Borno, and he flat out lied about his past votes.

Jiokuy, what the hell are you doing?  Shape up or ship out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 12:01:07 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on May 22, 2012, 11:32:37 am

a) Oh, hmm, I guess that wasn't terribly clear.  I wasn't saying that you were scummy, per se, but that it seemed odd for Jiokuy to pop up and basically go "hmm, there's a lot of posts as to why Urist is scummy, and a lot of posts as to why Supercharazad is scummy, but I think these other two people are scummiest" and not exactly detail why he thought so. 

Ah.

Quote

Interlude: Interesting wording on your question, Urist.  If you had said something more like "Why do you think Supercharazad and I are scummier than obolisk and yourself?" I wouldn't have thought anything of it, but I'm getting the feeling that you're concerned about appearances.

I read it as "I think Super and Urist are scummy and why do you disagree Jiokuy" which was odd as you haven't really been doing anything about it if you think I am.

Quote

Why didn't you switch your vote to Jiokuy after he voted himself?

Not exactly at liberty to talk about it, but suffice to say I think I know what he's trying to do (and he's doing it wrong).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 22, 2012, 12:07:12 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 12:01:07 pm

Not exactly at liberty to talk about it, but suffice to say I think I know what he's trying to do (and he's doing it wrong).

Oh?  Don't want to give away your scumbuddy's plan?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Supercharazad on May 22, 2012, 12:17:35 pm

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 12:01:07 pm

Not exactly at liberty to talk about it, but suffice to say I think I know what he's trying to do (and he's doing it wrong).

And why is that, Urist? You're either scared to give away your scumbuddy's plan, or you're deliberately holding information away from the town, which is also pretty much a scumtell.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 22, 2012, 12:32:00 pm

Other ongoing game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 23, 2012, 02:08:47 pm

[3] Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[2] Jiokuy: Jiokuy, Supercharazad

Day ends Tomorrow 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 23, 2012, 04:46:39 pm

Quote from: Supercharazad on May 22, 2012, 12:17:35 pm

And why is that, Urist? You're either scared to give away your scumbuddy's plan, or you're deliberately holding information away from the town, which is also pretty much a scumtell.

Since that game's basically over, and I'm dead in it anyway...

I'm pretty sure he's trying to bait the scumteam into voting him looking for an easy win. He's doing it wrong because he'd have to vote to shorten too in order to give them the chance to "hammer" him for an instant day end (because there are no hammers in this game and two bandwagons would be really easy to spot). He's also doing it wrong because it works far better at 3 players when there's only one person who could conceivably oppose the shorten before scum take the bait. Also, without knowing what Jim's policy on shortens/extends is, it might be a game over move anyway. I think he got the idea from what I tried to do in RL 4, which (Shakerag) is why I'm not voting him.

Jiokuy: Am I right?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 23, 2012, 11:15:31 pm

Hello? Anybody?

Post, people. Lurking at LyLo gets towns killed. See BMs 30+31 for proof. This is giving me bad feelings about tomorrow's activity.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 24, 2012, 10:32:18 am

Jiokuy, where are you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 24, 2012, 10:42:47 am

[3] Supercharazad: Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag, obolisk0430
[2] Jiokuy: Jiokuy, Supercharazad

Day ends Today 9:00 PM MST.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 24, 2012, 11:04:08 pm

The kitties in the itteh bitteh lynching commiteh gathered round to play with string and find the bad kitties.

"SUPERCHARIZARD" One kitteh said. "I CHOOSE YOU... FOR BAD KITTEH!"

And then Supercharazad wasn't a bad kitteh.

"You mean we lost?"

"Yes."

"Then who was bad kittehs?"

And then Urist Imiknorse and Shakeragg raised their paws. "Look at our delicious cheezburgers."

And then they nommed teh sheezeburgers all by themselves and left out all the other kittehs.

---

Supercharazad has been lynched. He was Hungreh Kitteh (Town)!

Jiokuy and obolisk0430, Hungreh Kittehs (Town), have lost!

Urist Imiknorris, Basement Cat (Roleblocker), and Shakerag, Bad Kitteh (Mafia), have won!

Scum chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/7mBJY8ERkTxt)
Dead chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/C8ymc6EwBApW)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Tiruin on May 24, 2012, 11:07:50 pm

O_o

The...

The IC.

The ICS!

O dem kittehs.

Never suspected both as scum!

((Thanks Jim for the modding!))

Edit: Dat scumchat. So long. Long as longcat.

Edit II: 200+ posts on that chat. A trove of information indeed.  :o

Edit III:

Spoiler: Favorite Quotes :3 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Jim Groovester

You mean to tell me that both ICs are scum in this game?

Those poor, poor newbies.

Quote from: Urist Imiknorris

Yep. Just like thirty BMs ago, except neither of us are webadict.

Quote from: Shakerag

We came to the agreement that it would be a ... learning experience for them.

*Cue teaching by aggression.

Perfect.

---

Quote from: Shakerag

BM33: Blue is the new red.

---

*Post lynch

Quote from: UI

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

COP WHAT COP

WE ARE INVINCIBLE

. . .

Sure. Flying Dice is the most competent so far, and I have no idea who (if anyone) is a doctor so really, why not block Hapah.

And yes, this game is going to be somewhat mean to the town.

EDIT: It would be hilarious if FD was the doctor.

Quote from: Shakerag

NK Flying Dice then.

I will die if FD turns out to be a doctor.

. . .

Day begins.

"Wow. Just ... wow."

. . .

Quote from: Shakerag

Also, I wonder if Toaster is even bothering to check in here anymore.

The game was good, everyone.

But don't let LYLO and the fact that 'you've caught scum' deter any other questioning. Unless you are truly sure that your target is scum, press on.

Then shorten for good measure.  :P

Edit IV: All in all, I've seen good throws and bad, but mostly on the former. And quite some nice arguments.

Great game everyone, enjoyable to watch.

Well, until day 3 came, but it happens, usually.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 24, 2012, 11:14:06 pm

Actions

Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)

Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2012, 04:35:45 pm

"it is time to get rid of Flying Dice"
"it is time to block Hapah"

and so taht is what you do.

Flying Dice

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 11, 2012, 04:36:52 pm

You go out to keep Shakerag safe from teh bad kittehs but oh no it looks like it was you who needed to be kept safe from teh bad kittehs.

you are ded. You can talk with the other kitties in dead chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/C8ymc6EwBApW).

Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)

Urist Imiknorris, Shakerag

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 16, 2012, 11:59:40 am

You turn to page to 2o f the evil kitteh masterplan and read it.

"take Edio's chezburgers and block obolisk003940923345."

"this is a good masterplan."

"Meow."

And everything goes according to plane.

Edio

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 15, 2012, 11:05:04 pm

Wuh oh, you're dead. Or you're out of cheeseburgers. Or you've been voted off Cat Island.

Talk with your fellow dead or cheeseburgerless cats here (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/C8ymc6EwBApW).

'Cause, you know, the flavor is definitely worth revealing for everyone.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 24, 2012, 11:17:45 pm

SOLID flavor.

(lol)

Oh well. :/

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 24, 2012, 11:28:55 pm

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a textbook example of lurking your way to a scum LYLO victory. 

Now do you see why we stress activity during LYLO?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 24, 2012, 11:30:05 pm

Derp.  Had more to say.

So, first time being an IC.  How terrible was it? 

Also, make sure to read the scum chat as there's lots of good info there to take with you into future games. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2012, 12:07:10 am

Hohoho, I don't think I ever seriously suspected that both of you were scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Toaster on May 25, 2012, 12:08:19 am

Jim, you been studying Alien Zombie Demons for flavor inspiration?


But yeah.  Lurking at LYLO equals scum win.  Go see BM XXI for a particularly egregious example of it.


Obolisk, you have good instincts, but you have to convince people you're right or it won't come to any good.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Bookthras on May 25, 2012, 12:12:28 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on May 24, 2012, 11:04:08 pm

And then Urist Imiknorse and Shakeragg raised their paws. "Look at our delicious cheezburgers."
And then they nommed teh sheezeburgers all by themselves and left out all the other kittehs.

Jim, the flavour has hilarious! I didn't know you had it in you! 8-P     Very enjoyable. Reminded me of GG's alens/zombie/demons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=67921.0), but that was much more impenetrable. (PPE: damn them ninja appliances.)

_{Plus great cheers and props for taking over when Darvi fell off the edge of the planet.}

Quote from: Shakerag on May 24, 2012, 11:30:05 pm

Also, make sure to read the scum chat

...that's some scumchat! And I thought I was verbose... I'm sure it'll be lots of fun. Beautiful scum team.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 12:17:44 am

All my rage urist, all my rage.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2012, 12:40:41 am

Oh, and to answer Toaster's question somewhere near the middle of the scumchat: Nope, this was my first game. I have read over a number of notable old games, though. I think the one that I spent the most time studying was the Not-So-Beginner Mafia.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 08:07:58 am

After reading scum chat, I feel slightly flattered, I suppose.  The reason I switched to Super was because I was convinced the scumteam was Super and Urist.  Should have tried to keep going with Urist.

*le sign*

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 25, 2012, 08:11:32 am

Quote

I mean what? Oh god, IC dream team.

Nice.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 25, 2012, 09:21:00 am

I still think my favorite quotes from scumchat were:
"You mean to tell me that both ICs are scum in this game? Those poor, poor newbies. " from Jim.  I can only imagine the reaction he had when he realized that. 

"Do you guys happen to know the meaning of 'lucky sons of bitches'? "  also Jim.

"You guys are funny. Yes, we must outwit all these beginners. "  Jim's very quotable.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 25, 2012, 09:30:55 am

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 12:17:44 am

All my rage urist, all my rage.

Trololol. But seriously, your persistence had me a bit on edge.

Jim's "lucky sons of bitches" quote is objectively the best quote of scumchat.

And one thing I'd like to bring up:

Quote from: Hapah

I imagine Flying was killed because (s)he was very good at that particular way of questioning that makes you spill your guts to answer the questions. You just get needled and needled, have to answer this legitimate question that that quote taken somewhat out of context and oh yeah, what about this questionable thing you said? It's exhausting to be on the receiving end of that, and when you make a slip Flying would know.

I would have said this earlier but I didn't see it. This is good scumhunting in a nutshell. This persistence and thoroughness are what win games for town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 25, 2012, 09:36:43 am

Quote from: Shakerag on May 25, 2012, 09:21:00 am

I still think my favorite quotes from scumchat were:
"You mean to tell me that both ICs are scum in this game? Those poor, poor newbies. " from Jim.  I can only imagine the reaction he had when he realized that. 

"Do you guys happen to know the meaning of 'lucky sons of bitches'? "  also Jim.

"You guys are funny. Yes, we must outwit all these beginners. "  Jim's very quotable.

Yeah, I just keep thinking of Toaster's intro in an extremely bored voice followed by a "Wait, wut?" moment and cracking up.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 09:51:47 am

To be honest, I really wasnt expecting shakreag to be scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 25, 2012, 10:34:45 am

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 09:51:47 am

To be honest, I really wasnt expecting shakreag to be scum.

Heh.  I was worried that the ICs would start getting extra attention due to the (very) common (yet often not true) meme of "alive ICs = scum".  That, and the fact that UI and myself had had little interaction throughout the game. 

I kind of wish Jiokuy had showed up again, because I really wanted to hear why he thought you and I were scummiest. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 10:48:19 am

Hey, urist, did it really look like super and I were buddies, or were you just pulling that out of your ass?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Shakerag on May 25, 2012, 11:45:56 am

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 10:48:19 am

Hey, urist, did it really look like super and I were buddies, or were you just pulling that out of your ass?

Well, if he just pulled it out of his ass, then it wouldn't have been terribly convincing, would it? 

Having said that, I know there were some posts from the two of you that looked like it could arguably be buddying.  I think something about how you both were going after Urist.  Oh, and you going after Urist instead of Supercharazad, who was arguably scummier with the case Urist and I were pressing on him.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 12:25:46 pm

That bit with borno seemed like an ass pull to me, and it worked spectacularly.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 25, 2012, 05:26:16 pm

Quote from: Toaster on May 25, 2012, 12:08:19 am

Jim, you been studying Alien Zombie Demons for flavor inspiration?

Quote from: Bookthras on May 25, 2012, 12:12:28 am

Jim, the flavour has hilarious! I didn't know you had it in you! 8-P     Very enjoyable. Reminded me of GG's alens/zombie/demons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=67921.0), but that was much more impenetrable. (PPE: damn them ninja appliances.)

I'm glad you enjoyed the flavor, because I put literally no effort into it. (That was the point.)

I haven't read alens/zombie/demons, but it's not like dumb internet speak is uncommon.

I hope everyone had fun playing the game, and primarily, I hope everyone learned a lot. It was my great pleasure to mod.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Hapah on May 25, 2012, 05:31:25 pm

Glad you enjoyed it. And I think I can speak for everyone when I say thanks for stepping up to the plate and taking over!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2012, 08:25:42 pm

Quote from: Hapah on May 25, 2012, 05:31:25 pm

Glad you enjoyed it. And I think I can speak for everyone when I say thanks for stepping up to the plate and taking over!

Agreed, thanks for pushing this back onto the tracks.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on May 25, 2012, 08:32:20 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 10:48:19 am

Hey, urist, did it really look like super and I were buddies, or were you just pulling that out of your ass?

When someone's made a major slip, I tend to look for the people who don't do anything about it. So yes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: borno on May 25, 2012, 08:58:05 pm

Yeah, I was sick on the day of the lynch, so I didn't have time to write up my post.  :-\ And in fact, I was planning on role-claiming.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 25, 2012, 11:07:16 pm

Fun scum chat.

Also, I'm glad my game got mentioned twice do the flavour. :P The joy of meme-inspired games.

....


....

Has anyone run a 4chan-mafia yet?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia XXXIII: u no can has ch33zburgers (9/9)
Post by: Toaster on May 25, 2012, 11:29:00 pm

Quote from: obolisk0430 on May 25, 2012, 08:07:58 am

After reading scum chat, I feel slightly flattered, I suppose.  The reason I switched to Super was because I was convinced the scumteam was Super and Urist.  Should have tried to keep going with Urist.

*le sign*

I mean it- I hope you stick around.  You just need to learn to back up your points with less bile and more logic and reason.

Also, that is why building scum teams is dangerous.  You lynch the person most likely to be scum, not just any old member of a hypothetical scum team.