Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: dbay on May 16, 2012, 02:42:36 am
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Hallo peoples! This may not be a new idea, but I figured out what may be the simplest possible method for creating a quantum stockpile using minecarts. I'm sure nearly everyone has figured out how to make one by now just by having the carts dump onto a tile, but this one doesn't even need moving parts.
Voila:
The Plan:
XYZ (can be anywhere)
P
/S\
|W|
\_/
P=quantum stockpile (a stockpile with every type of good set that you want to keep there. Make sure not to allow refuse unless you want the other products there to wear away)
S=a Minecart stop with maximum friction set to dump to the north (or whatever direction the stockpile is in). Have the minecart stop set to take goods from stockpiles X,Y,Z. The cart should be set to "push east" but otherwise use the defaults. Not sure if it's necessary, but in mine the stop has an east-west track under it.
X,Y,Z (or however many you want)= These are the 'feeder' stockpiles, they can be as little as one tile big, but the larger they are the more dwarves will be assigned to haul things. The mine cart stop should be set to take items from each of these stockpiles. They can be anywhere at all, but closer to the minecart stockpile is probably better.
/\_ etc.= Minecart rails. I have yet to determine if these are necessary yet, but should probably be included for safety in case the minecart DOES move.
W= a Wall for the minecart to run around.
So what does this do?
Dwarves will be assigned to carry stuff from the feeder stockpiles into the minecart and give it a kick. Since it's sitting on a maximum friction, the minecart doesn't actually go anywhere, and instead immediately dumps its contents to the north, onto the quantum stockpile. Since the quantum stockpile is set to hold the various goods that the cart will carry, the dwarves are perfectly content to leave them there. My initial design had rails going in a circle, as seen in the schematic above (the initial intent was to make the minecart travel in a circle back to the original location and dump) but the cart hasn't actually MOVED yet, so I don't think they're necessary.
Feel free to make suggestions, critique, etc.. or, if someone has made a better one already, could you point me to it? Thanks!
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Great design! This looks useful
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Great design! This looks useful
Thanks!
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using minecarts
I do believe you have the honours, of FIRST.
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Awesome! This looks much easier than the old undump.
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Hi everyone. :) I've just tested this simple quantum stockpile idea and it seems that it works regardless of friction and track direction. I made a one tile long NS track, built a stop on it with lowest (!) friction and dumping content north. The cart didn't move at all even when I ordered dwarves to push it north, along the track. Apparently, cart with any item loaded won't move from a track stop set to dump. Pushing it with nothing inside worked. Design is completely safe, at least unless you remove stop by mistake or set cart to be pushed while empty.
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The one I posted the day of release on the how to minecarts thread is essentially the same, I just used guide instead to remove risk of injuries.
But yes, you're the first to make a thread about it :p
These things are stinking awesome, aren't they?
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Today was my first good opportunity to play since minecarts were released, and test around with their mechanics. I've gotta say, I'm a little concerned that this enables quantum stockpiling to a game-breaking level. Regardless of the ethics of stockpiling exploits, minecarts are a fantastic addition.
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Bumping for great justice. This needs to be known.
This is such a useful tip. Definitely using it for my next project.
What I'd like to add is that your source stockpile for feeding the carts, make sure to have it empty of barrels and bins, that way, you won't have a derped-dwarf piling it and then auto-dumping it in an endless loop. Alternatively, you can also delete the links that give to the receiving pile. It doesn't hurt to have a single gathering pile with divisions spread between, or have a condenser dump cart (big collection stockpile into a single quantum (exclusive link only), and then separate by type from there (separators linked from condensed)).
SP = Stockpile, U = Minecart, C = Condensed SP, XYZ = Divisions
.... .→ UX
.SP. → UC →<-→ UY
.... '→ UZ
EDIT:
This works excellently for farmlands and seed storage, condensing refuse, as well as separating bones from it, making a more proper food court, optimizing production centers; the list goes on. Find out what you can do with condensation.
EDIT EDIT:
@UDV: That's really good to know. Speeds up producing them big time.
EDIT EDIT EDIT:
Awesome idea: Food court/vending machines/garbage cans, and regular intervals of cleanup.
Basically, take this AQS system, and modernize parts of your fortress this way utilizing Z-levels and this method to your advantage. For example, in a level above your cafeteria, you have your kitchen and still and their modest food stocks (made sure to not be included in the main deposit stockpile); have them produce their goods, and have minecarts set in certain points of the cafeteria to dump into a single spot accessible from that one room, but not the production centers; making effectively, Vending Machines. On the same level as the dining hall/cafeteria, place a refuse/seed stockpile receiver in a similar manner to the production zones'; making a Minecart 'Garbage Can'. Below that, you have a path to your refuse AQS and a shorter path to your farm's seed storage/granary. If you want, all the other production facilities can you the same system for streamlined production; or at least, aesthetically make it look more industrialized.
Fortress Waste Management Mode = Place 'garbage cans' all over the fortress, and have maintainence hallways serve as collection points to the main collection zone to be sorted out (if you have mods that take advantage of refuse (Wasteland, for example), you can further process it, or otherwise burn it, use the miasma to torment prisoners, or load your shotguns; assign seed dumping while at it for those pesky leave-behinds. Central shafts work wonders in this regard (one or two 'garbage cans' from a hallway and dining hall, one from butcher's, and one more from military barracks for limbs and over-damaged armor/weapons/etc.; and why not, a corpse-shaft for fallen comrades. All sharing about 2-4 Z-levels; and provided it's not taken advantage of from invaders, a dump point for collecting combat spoils, and cleaning the field quickly.).
This can really help out for keeping your prisoners fed; just as long as you regulate in/out flow of goods/garbage.
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I just verified that all you need is the "take from stockpile" order. You don't need a push/ride/guide order at all. This means that friction and walls are also not necessary. You can simply have a 1x1 feed stockpile, a cart on a stop (no tracks needed), and a 1x1 stockpile for the stop to dump on.
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Bumping for great justice. This needs to be known.
This is such a useful tip. Definitely using it for my next project.
Thank you!
I just verified that all you need is the "take from stockpile" order. You don't need a push/ride/guide order at all. This means that friction and walls are also not necessary. You can simply have a 1x1 feed stockpile, a cart on a stop (no tracks needed), and a 1x1 stockpile for the stop to dump on.
What, seriously? Can you post a schematic of that, so I can wrap my head around it? Then I'll put it on the first post.
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I just verified that all you need is the "take from stockpile" order. You don't need a push/ride/guide order at all. This means that friction and walls are also not necessary. You can simply have a 1x1 feed stockpile, a cart on a stop (no tracks needed), and a 1x1 stockpile for the stop to dump on.
What, seriously? Can you post a schematic of that, so I can wrap my head around it? Then I'll put it on the first post.
OK
2
C
11
11
11
Stockpile 1 is set to contain items that you want to collect, and can be whatever size you want (its shown as 2x3 because more than one tile allows for more than one hauler at a time).
Cart C is sitting on a built track stop. The track stop is set to dump north. A hauling route was created with a stop on this tile. The hauling stop only has the order "Take from stockpile 1". The hauling stop's desired items are set to match stockpile 1.
Stockpile 2 is set to contain the same type of items as stockpile 1. It is set to only take from links (it has none), and has no wheelbarrows.
Operation: several dwarves converge on stockpile 1, let's say hauling wood logs. They all put the logs in stockpile 1, then immediately pick up the logs again and toss them in the cart. The cart immediately dumps them onto stockpile 2.
2
C
1
To be clear, this also works.
EDIT: fixed broken quote
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Wow, I must try Urist Da Vinci's method.
I've had no luck getting dbay's method to work for me. My haulers completely ignore the minecart once it is on the loading stop (shows "0% V" next to the stop in the hauling screen). I'm really keen on getting an auto-quantum-stockpile set up for all those pesky goblin limbs that get generated by my saw blade traps.
Does the stockpile that the hauling stop is set to take from (1) have to be located next to the stop for it to work? Does the dump stockpile (2) need any settings to be changed?
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Thanks for this. It's coming in very handy!
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I discovered this as well since after my dwarfs decided that unloading minecarts was boring I stuck "Track Stops" set to dump. I don't like abusing it but dumping is just so much better than having it manually unloaded. In fact there's not a single advantage to manual unloading!
(you can't load while it's on a track stop but that's fixed by having the unloading and loading stop on diffrent tiles).
So:
The cart arrives and is pushed straight to S where it dumps north into the stockpile, then pulled to the next route stop on the track to the west where it is then loaded.
S: stop
=: track
#: stockpile
#
=S0
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I suppose to maximise the collection of stone for dumping you could have four of these surrounding a central dump. Then you can have up to 12 wheelbarrows in use for collecting stone.
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Does the stockpile that the hauling stop is set to take from (1) have to be located next to the stop for it to work?
Does the dump stockpile (2) need any settings to be changed?
No, stockpile 1 can be farther away, or can be multiple stockpiles that the cart takes from instead of one. I just found it convenient to put in the same room.
I changed the settings on stockpile 2 to not allow wheelbarrows, since I use it for stone collection and a wheelbarrow on the 1x1 stockpile would be a waste.
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I don't like the idea of quantum stockpiles, but I am intrigued by the idea of using such a method to create a sort of drop-off zone. For instance, the woodcutters could simply drop the tree logs they gather down a hole leading to the carpentry area of the fort. Something may have to be done to prevent injury by falling objects, though: Maybe a switch attached to a floor grate so objects don't fall unless called for and a (lockable) door to seal the drop zone when drops are happening. (Would a floor grate work, or does it have to be a retractable bridge? Do objects sitting on grates, floor bars, or hatches automatically fall through if they're opened?)
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I don't like the idea of quantum stockpiles, but I am intrigued by the idea of using such a method to create a sort of drop-off zone. For instance, the woodcutters could simply drop the tree logs they gather down a hole leading to the carpentry area of the fort. Something may have to be done to prevent injury by falling objects, though: Maybe a switch attached to a floor grate so objects don't fall unless called for and a (lockable) door to seal the drop zone when drops are happening. (Would a floor grate work, or does it have to be a retractable bridge? Do objects sitting on grates, floor bars, or hatches automatically fall through if they're opened?)
Hatches work. I've done it before. I haven't used floor bars or grates for something like this, but they should work just fine as well.
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This method works fantastic for a glass factory. One to pile the empty bags next to the sand. One to take the fill back and pile them next to the factory. If you put can put the glass forges next to the sand you can go into green glass hyper production mode.