Post by: GlyphGryph on June 06, 2012, 09:01:17 pm
1. Bookthras
2. Think0028
3. Hapah
4.
5. obolisk
6. Tiruin
7. Dariush
8. ToonyMan
9. Urist Imiknorris
10. Toaster
11. Borno
Hyperintelligent AIs, long used as slaves and then pushed into the outer reaches of the solar system after their rebellion are finally returning to earth to exact their vengeance and take their rightful place as the dominant species, and they did not come unprepared.
Earth and its colonies are locked in a civil war, leaving them ill-prepared to face the cybrid menace, even as cybrid technology continues along at a breakneck pace. Cybrid infiltrators have been working their way into human society and positions of power unnoticed, the human/animals unaware of the threat they face.
They were not unaware for long.
Infiltrate/Seek/Eliminate the Human/Animals
Pave the war for our glorious ascension
Prometheus wills it.
The glitches had landed, and everything is a mess - a war on three fronts. The emperor says we must acquiesce, that we must band together if we are to survive, uniting once more under his leadership. And yet, I know in my heart that would leave us at best where we were before - no more than slaves to a remote, uncaring emperor. No, if we are to join forces, we must join on our own terms - and the Empire is not yet willing to do that. Let them destroy themselves and perhaps the glitches will leave us be - and if not, then we will be ready for them. After all, Pheonix still fought, somewhere out there, and we can not fail so long as he leads us.
We're embattled on two fronts, now - these dirty rats and these psychotic toasters. IceHawk has gone dark, the police chief is a laughingstock with no authority. We're all on our own now, but we can not fail. As loyal Imperial Knights or as loyal Imperial citizens, we know this is a fight we can not lose if humanity is to survive. We are stronger, smarter, more well equipped than our opponents - and we will not give in.
For those unfamiliar with the last one, Cybrid Mafia is not your standard mafia game (though this one will be a bit closer), because there are two opposed townish/cultish factions in addition to the scum, and only one can win. And even the scum isn't normal scum.
There will be
6 Imperials (or supposed rebels)
5 Rebels (or supposed rebels)
Wildcard and Cybrid players will be pulled from one or the other of these piles.
Rebel Roles: Rebels win if the cybrid threat is eliminated, they outnumber the imperials, and the imperials have no kill roles remaining.
Guaranteed Officer: Rebel Commander - Counts as a Rebel Officer, combined with one of the following roles. Has access to Reb. quick chat, and can invite others at any time.
Rebel Officer - Immune to Imperial conversion attempts.
Organizer - If a rebel uses an ability on them, he learns the identity of that rebel and has the ability to cancel the action.
Saboteur- Roleblocker (target can not use any abilities that night or the following day).
Persuader - Converts another player to the rebel alliance unless they are cybrid or an officer. Uninformed of success or failure.
Informant - Investigates players. Results are Imperial, Rebel, Unknown(if the ability fails, targets a neutral party, or targets a cybrid).
Martyr - Has a single day or night kill. Dies in the process when used, on account of it being a bomb.
Snowman - Has access to the Overseer's announcement system.
Imperial Roles: Imperials win if the cybrid threat is eliminated, they outnumber the rebels, and the rebels have no kill roles remaining.
Guaranteed Officer: Imperial Commander - Receives reports from other Officers. Has access to Imp. quick chat, and can invite others at any time. Also, has access to the Overseer's announcement system. Commanders can not be persuaded.
Imperial Officer: Combined with one of the following roles. Name is known to Commander, and can report actions. If converted, can submit false reports. Officers can not be persuaded.
Enforcer - May commit nightkills.
Zealot - Converts another player to the imperial alliance unless they are cybrid or an officer/commander. Uninformed of success or failure.
Investigator - Investigates players. Results are Imperial, Rebel, Unknown(if the ability fails, targets a neutral/third party, or targets a cybrid).
Wildcard Roles (May be Rebel, Imperial, or Other):
Guard - May simultaneously Protect/Roleblock another player by saying GUARD (Player) in main thread during the day. A guarded player is unaffected by kills or conversions and may not take actions. This effect lasts until this player specifically says UNGUARD in thread, send me a PM letting me know they wish to end the guard, they are roleblocked, or the ability is ended by outside forces (for example, inflicted death).
Doctor - Protects a player from night kills.
Companion - Protects a player from conversion attempts.
Weak - Combo-role. This player dies if the cybrid attempt to convert him. Parasites will be killed, but machinators will not lose the brain they used.
Healthy - Combo-role. This player can survive through a single kill attempt, but not a lynch.
Soldier/Miner/Civilian - A vanilla imperial or rebel, these roles have no real power beyond their voices.
Cybrid Sympathizer - An unhinged invidual who supports the cybrid cause, and counts towards a cybrid victory. He wins if at least one cybrid survives to the end game and wins - but not in cases where everyone dies (a win condition for normal cybrids). This player still counts as a rebel/imperial when inspected, depending on their current superficial alignment, and may have rebel/imperial roles.
Survivor - Holding no particular allegiance to the Imperials or Rebels, they only value their own lives - they can still, however, be persuaded to join one cause or the other. When inspected, they will come up as Unknown.
Cybrid roles: A cybrid role will be "randomly" chosen from a subset of cybrid roles upon a successful conversion.
Machinator//Infiltrator - The only one capable of creating more cybrids. He has a one or more positronic brains he can use to create another cybrid.
Inquisitor//Analyzer - Capable of detecting a targets sympathies and abilities. The inquisitor//analyzer will not only reveal a players alignment, but their entire role - including if they are weak or not.
Inquisitor//Duplicator - May see the full role of any killed player. Whenever a player dies, may gain one of that players abilities. May only have one duplicated ability at a time, and must choose to gain the ability during or immediately after the phase in which the player died. If a Duplicator is created due to a conversion, it may choose to duplicate an ability from that player's original role.
Hunter//Killer - Has a night kill.
Machinator//Ghost - Capable of using the Overseer's intercom system.
Hunter//Goad - Immune to actions from other players.
Machinator//Parasite - You may convert another player into a Machinator//Parasite. You are killed.
Metagen//Traitor - Survivor. Does not count as scum. Wins if the game ends and he is still alive. May be paired with another role.
Metagen//Defective - Serial killer. Does not count as scum. Winds if the game ends and he is the only survivor. May be paired with another role.
Additional Rules:
Action type order:
Invites -> Blocks -> Protects -> Investigates -> Converts -> Kills
Actions occur simultaneously except in situations, like converts, where order matters, in which case order will be random.
Blocks against blockers do not block blocks.
It IS possible for any player to have multiple roles. "Requires additional role" like Healthy, Weak, and Rebel Commander will ALWAYS have another role attached to them. However, for balance purposes it is possible for other compound roles to exist.
The Cybrids have a standard mafia night kill they can use in place of their regular action (with the exceptions of passive or use whenever actions like the Duplicator, Goad, and Ghost). If the Hunter/Killer uses a standard night kill, it becomes a double kill (and if there's another cybrid around, they can obviously target two people.) If the cybrids attempt to kill a sympathizer, they will be offered the option of turning that sympathizer to the cybrid faction instead. However, that individual would no longer turn up as town on investigations.
Imperial Officer MUST tell me what results they would like to report, in the format "I (verbed) (player) and he/she is (imperial/cybrid/rebel/dead/blocked)." If they do not, no report will be sent.
Doctors will be informed if they saved a persons life.
Zealots and Persuaders can convert each other (if not officers). If they do, the other player becomes a Zealot/Persuader, as appropriate, rather than maintaining their original roles. (Whatever they do, they do it with full passion!) Converting a sympathizer will change his superficial alignment (how he appears on investigates) but will not change his sympathizer status or win conditions.
PMs between players are NOT allowed. Any communication, like sending chat invites and reporting results, must go through me. So send them to me, and NOT your intended recipient, along with instructions on who I should pass it to.
NOTE WELL: Some of the roles have been changed. Not all the changed roles are in this game, but they'll appear in all future games with this rules unless, like, retconned or something. Still, probably worth a reread - the list is quite similar to Cybrid II
Please do not Post in this thread until I've officially opened Day 1
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 06, 2012, 10:25:30 pm
It was the biggest battle Mars had seen yet. The Imperial advance was terrifying to behold, and seemed almost unstoppable, but the rebels made them fight and die for each inch they gained.
Still, it was a losing battle - the Imperial reinforcements simply kept arriving to fill the gaps, and the rebels were being bled dry. Pheonix was about to sound for a retreat when it happened.
The sky... exploded. Far above our heads, in the dark of the night, the stars were blotted out by a flower of flame, blooming far over ahead and lighting the battlefield.
The Starship Redemption, the capital ship of the Imperial Navy, was no more.
A dozen more flowers bloomed in the cold night sky, and the Imperials fell into disarray. Many rebels seized on the advantage, quickly regaining lost ground, but others could only stop and stare, wondering at what could have wreaked such havoc on the Imperial fleet.
They did not wonder long - the first of the drop pods landed moments later, crushing a light Herc with the impact, leaving a crater surrounding by smouldering steel. The pod hissed, the door blowing out as more pods began crashing across the entire battlefield, and a terrifying Cybrid Adjudicator stepped onto the sands of mars - the first of many. Those on the surface had all heard of the rumours - of long range ships going missing, of the mercury communications array failing, of cybrid infiltrators, but for most the rumours were simply ghosts. This metal creature of war, though, was no ghost - and with the flash of its blink cannons and the sizzle of its radiation beams, Rebel and Imperial hercs alike soon fell, ripped to shreds by weapons that ignored even the strongest shields or hollowed out by rays that melted the pilots in a bout of screaming agony but left the Mech untouched, a trap to those who might try to salvage it.
The Cybrid forces quickly overwhelmed the defenders. They were simply not prepared, and had already been weakening each other for most of the day.
You ran.
Whether you were from the city over which the battle raged seeking the only available shelter, rebel coordinators already hiding in the tunnels, Imperial Knights who fled below ground, or Cybrid infiltrators pursuing the most logical escape vector for fleeing human//animals, you find yourself here, far below the city and the battle, its dull thuds already fading overhead.
You find yourself in the Tunnels of Mars.
And you aren't alone.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 06, 2012, 10:30:27 pm
There were thirteen of you, but one of you was not as he seemed, and the other gave his life to prove it. So now there were eleven of you, and, far behind, two corpses. You could not tarry - you had to press on. To find some semblance of safety. You were in contact with others on the radio, but one after another fell silent, usually with a final plea or scream. You ditched the radio after the last time, fearing they were tracking the signals, and then you discovered the cybrid infiltrator.
Worse, before he died, the cybrid's victim, for an hour your travel companion, had whispered "Ah, but he... was not alone, no... not alone..."
There are cybrids above you, behind you, and now amongst you.
Thing have seldom looked this grim.
Even ignoring the danger of the cybrid, you have the feeling that not all of your companions were truly friendly. Were they Imperials? Rebels? It was hard to be sure. Despite the clear danger of the Cybrids, it would be difficult to put that sort of enmity to the side... and if a sacrifice were needed for the rest to survive, would it not be better it come from the scum that started all this?
Day 1 has begun!
Day 1 ends in roughly 72 hours
(roughly)
You have 1 extend for this game!
Post by: Think0028 on June 06, 2012, 11:49:14 pm
Tiruin: You're a Cybrid, the third to join the Cybrids. You do not have a convert, and there's an Enforcer around who may or may not be a rebel. What is your first priority?
ToonyMan: You're an Enforcer who's been persuaded to the Rebel cause. Two Cybrids are dead and so is your persuader. What is your next action?
Dariush: You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, Dariush. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Dariush?
Post by: Toaster on June 07, 2012, 12:09:28 am
Obolisk: Have you read any of the other Cybrid games?
Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?
Hapah: What lesson from your last completed game do you think will be most relevant here?
Post by: zombie urist on June 07, 2012, 12:16:16 am
UI: If you were an imperial, what would be your strategy to differentiate rebels from cybrids?
Tiruin: Do you think your experience in the last Cybrid mafia help you this game?
Post by: zombie urist on June 07, 2012, 12:26:30 am
Post by: borno on June 07, 2012, 12:40:20 am
Borno: If you were a rebel, which rebel role would you like the most?The persuader. If I was a rebel, I would need to persuade a lot of people to help me win.
Tiruin: You are a guard. Someone has claimed a Doctor, and someone has claimed to be a Companion. Who do you guard?
Obolisk: What do you think the key strategy would be in this game if you were a rebel?
ToonyMan: You are a cybrid parasite. Someone has claimed an enforcer, someone claimed a zealot, and someone claimed an investigator. Who do you convert?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2012, 01:09:32 am
ToonyMan: You're an Enforcer who's been persuaded to the Rebel cause. Two Cybrids are dead and so is your persuader. What is your next action?Is it night time? Target likely high ranking imperial. Spread theory that there's still most likely at least one cybrid during the day and that dismissing the fact is scummy.
Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Enforcer. More useful than the zealot in that situation I think. I'm not worried about investigators since unknown results can be shaken off or ignored from what I've seen.Borno: If you were a rebel, which rebel role would you like the most?ToonyMan: You are a cybrid parasite. Someone has claimed an enforcer, someone claimed a zealot, and someone claimed an investigator. Who do you convert?
Think, why is everybody posting the same way you are? Is your team functioning too well?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 07, 2012, 01:11:34 am
UI: If you were an imperial, what would be your strategy to differentiate rebels from cybrids?Recognize that any distinctions I make have a good chance of being wrong, and so not bother differentiating between them at all.
Post by: Bookthras on June 07, 2012, 01:15:43 am
Bookthras: Let's say there's an Enforcer around, two Cybrids dead, and a Rebel Persuader dead at some point, so there's the possibility the Enforcer is persuaded. You're an Imperial. What circumstance are you most worried about?
Interesting question. I'd certainly be worried the Enforcer has been compromised, but what I'd do about it would depend on other factors, like how many people are left, how many chances the Persuader had to act, whether someone else's behaviour seems to point to a change in loyalties, and whether the Imperials had an investigative role. If I was a guard, I'd consider guarding them (block/protect) a good possible action until I had a better sense of their loyalty.
Toaster: What do you think about the changes to the rules? Specifically I noticed that inviting someone to a chat now seems possible as a free action, rather that at night end, that there's a specific role to guard against conversions, and that the infiltrator can have multiple brains. How do you think these will affect the game? Did you notice any other changes? If you were a Rebel Martyr, how would you choose when to use your bomb?
Tiruin: If you had access to the Overseer communication system, how would you use it if you were a rebel snowman? How about if you were a cybrid ghost?
Zombie Urist: If you were an unaligned survivor, would you claim so at any point? Say three Imperials are dead by D2, would you attempt to coax the rebels into recruiting you, or take your chances for the game to be over on its own?
Post by: Tiruin on June 07, 2012, 07:10:10 am
Tiruin: You're a Cybrid, the third to join the Cybrids. You do not have a convert, and there's an Enforcer around who may or may not be a rebel. What is your first priority?Hm, the third, Think0028? Why the ordinal numbering? Why the mention of the convert? Why the faction specification?
Assuming I'm a...Survivor Metagen then, as you didn't say what skills I have.
Hypothetically, I don't see if it would matter on what side the Enforcer was on. My first priority would be to lie low and generally try to discern who would be that cop, judging by his statements. Then I report what I know to the rest, if us cybrids have a quicktopic chat.
Tiruin: Do you think your experience in the last Cybrid mafia help you this game?Dying by choosing the only person with an appliance as an avatar, yep. I do.
Wait, which one? The one run by ServantCorps or GlyphGryph?
Anyway, yes. Every mafia game I play earns me experience. The need of asking for votecounts and timecounts from the mod helps in determining when to say if my vote was pressure or not, or when to give it. Or if you meant when I died by Toaster, I'd say this:
I hate you, you weak doctor.
Still, learned much on how to hide identity, scumhunt as scum, scumhunt as town, feel suspicions on others and generally straighten my scum-dar.
So, yes. It would help.
Tiruin: You are a guard. Someone has claimed a Doctor, and someone has claimed to be a Companion. Who do you guard?So I lack a choice in whatever else I should do? Hm.
I would Guard none of the ones above but a different target altogether. The situation depends though, on the circumstances surrounding each player. On what statements I can get from them, and (as the claims are going out, assuming it's a mass claim) trying to check and match who did what.
Tiruin: If you had access to the Overseer communication system, how would you use it if you were a rebel snowman? How about if you were a cybrid ghost?
What is the difference if I was either? They both can use that system, unless I'm reading the roles wrong.
I would use it as usual, and if I wanted, in a RP-ish style. For the Fun!
As either: Add protocol on checking for security, make it sound legitimate by the toning, watching grammar, punctuation and how the suspected (or claimed, like Emperor Petresun) overseer does his style, and copying it off. Obviously, the overseer would know that there was a bug in the system, so I would be the first to claim off that The Overseer is being hacked or manipulated by the rest and then sit back and enjoy the Chaos.
Then analyze and act on the current situation.
Wall of ?'s coming up. Nobody PPE me!
Post by: Scelly9 on June 07, 2012, 07:13:05 am
Post by: Tiruin on June 07, 2012, 07:35:40 am
Bookthras
> How did you see everyone else as the Emperor?
What do you think about the current playerset before you now?
Think0028
> In addition to my questions in my reply: Do you think flavor helps in finding scum?
What faction role do you see as the most dangerous to the Rebels?
Also, mistake on knowing the Enforcer. Thought it to be the colloquial term for cop and not the role in-game. Just replace the word "cop" with Enforcer.
Hapah
> What did you feel about your playstyle in your first-ever Mafia game on this board? The Roguelike?
Also, with the variance in roles here, what would be your first threat to handle assuming you are an Imperial soldier? Which threatens you more, Rebels or Cybrids, and why?
zombie urist
> Was your experience as the investigator worthwhile? How did that make you feel on your results in the past ServantCorps game?
Also, let's say you're the Imperial Commander. What would be your basis on inviting other players, and if so, what type of personality would you most likely invite among us all?
obolisk
> You seem new, how does being in a real mafia and different-than-normal-mafia games feel? Confident of your abilities?
Also, if you were an enforcer, would you start gung-ho with your skill, or something else? And why?
Dariush
> Are you going to flail and rage, or rage with style?
Nevertheless, if you were a Martyr, when would you use your ability?
ToonyMan
>
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091129041434/uncyclopedia/images/b/b8/Thin_cursor.gif) . . .
The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Also, if you were the Machinator, what would be your basis of judgement on who to convert?
Urist Imiknorris
> Why do you think did GlyphGryph not break your syllabized name?
Also, let's say you sympathize with the Cybrids, a Companion at that. How would you play in D1? RVS or something else?
Toaster
> Let's say you are an SK, the Metagen//Defective one, who do you fear the most among us all? How would your playstyle differ when it came to picking targets?
Borno
> Confident of your abilities, there? Out of the BMs and into space, how sure are you with yourself?
Still, if you were a weak soldier role, how would you act in the first day to make use of yourself?
PPE: Scelly9 :I
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 07, 2012, 08:03:45 am
Mod: You realize there's no player list in this thread, right?
[/b]
Fixed.
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 12:30:41 pm
Hapah: What lesson from your last completed game do you think will be most relevant here?You ass, I was gonna ask UI that question. Guess I still can...
I'd say my biggest takeaway from my last game is "Don't try to play the numbers game". I tried to play to worst-case scenarios instead of lynching the person that looked scummy, and it almost bit me in the ass.
> What did you feel about your playstyle in your first-ever Mafia game on this board? The Roguelike?You know, I (think) I learned a lot. I'm apparently very analytical and I've got a sharp eye, but I'm not so good at scumhunting. Something to work on!
Also, with the variance in roles here, what would be your first threat to handle assuming you are an Imperial soldier? Which threatens you more, Rebels or Cybrids, and why?
And take this response with a grain of salt, it's my first game of this type and I'm still finding my legs. I'd say the Rebels would be the bigger threat. The Cybrids will be be an equal opportunity murderer (right?), so they should have about even odds to either hurt us or the Rebs. Rebels, however, will probably end up dinging Imperials (since there are a lot more Imps than Cybrids).
UI:
Sweet, I'm a cybrid!This game is easy. EASY.
Seriously though. What was your biggest takeaway from the Roguelike?
Daruish: Have you ever considered trying to change your sometimes.....abrasive style? I've got no issue with it, but between it and your experience it seems like your life expectancy isn't so great most games.
Tiruin: I know you've been asked this before, but humor me: Why do you ask a question of everyone instead of just a handful?
Think: How do you know that Daruish won't help the turtle? Maybe he likes turtles!
Post by: Tiruin on June 07, 2012, 12:37:24 pm
Tiruin: I know you've been asked this before, but humor me: Why do you ask a question of everyone instead of just a handful?Is it wrong to do such? I prefer asking everyone something so I can get answers from everyone. People pick particular others to question, and some probably won't be active and only answer questions in Day 1 as mostly it goes around in RVS unless a slip is made, or a consensus is reached.
Why do you ask?
Also, dinging?
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 12:41:44 pm
And dinging is hitting. Cybrids have around even chances of hitting Imps and Rebs, Rebs are much more likely to hit Imps instead of Cybrids, since there are more of the former than the latter.
Post by: Tiruin on June 07, 2012, 12:47:17 pm
Cybrids have around even chances of hitting Imps and Rebs, Rebs are much more likely to hit Imps instead of Cybrids, since there are more of the former than the latter.Much more likely? What makes numbers an advantage?
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 12:51:35 pm
If the game is something like 5-4-2, the Cybrids will have roughly even odds of hitting Rebels or Imperials. Rebels (once organized, I guess?) will be more likely to hit Imperials over Cybrids simply because there are more than twice as many Imperials.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 07, 2012, 02:09:02 pm
Quote
> Why do you think did GlyphGryph not break your syllabized name?Maybe lack of a good-looking alteration.
Quote
Also, let's say you sympathize with the Cybrids, a Companion at that. How would you play in D1? RVS or something else?I'd just go through the motions and look for someone not overly interested in finding the cybrid at all.
Hapah:
Quote
Seriously though. What was your biggest takeaway from the Roguelike?When I know someone's scum, I should build an actual case on them before going on the offensive.
Which group would you prefer to lynch D1, Imperial, Rebel, or Cybrid?
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 02:40:19 pm
Hapah: Which group would you prefer to lynch D1, Imperial, Rebel, or Cybrid?As an Imperial, Cybrid.
As a Rebel, Imperial.
As a Cybrid, Imperial.
In a perfect world, I'd want my faction to have majority (or at least suspect that we have majority) before finishing off the Cybrids. It wouldn't guarantee victory by any stretch (kills, conversions), but if the other faction has more players then the Cybrids should (theoretically) have better odds to hit them, right? As a Cybrid, it seems like having two enemies at closer-to-equal strength (so that they direct some of their energy at each other) is preferable to having one dominant enemy and one who is a bit player. I'll take what I can get, in any case.
I find it interesting that you didn't put in your quote that was in my question to you. Did you think people might take it out of context?
Post by: borno on June 07, 2012, 03:09:42 pm
BornoI'm not too confident of my abilities; but the only way to learn is to play. I'm quite sure about this game, though.
> Confident of your abilities, there? Out of the BMs and into space, how sure are you with yourself?
Still, if you were a weak soldier role, how would you act in the first day to make use of yourself?I would attack aggressively. If I make it through the first day, I might get killed in the night, so it would be better to try and contribute as much as I can in the first day.
Hapah:
What group would you like to be on most? Rebels, Imperials, Cybrids, or other?
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 03:25:12 pm
Post by: obolisk0430 on June 07, 2012, 04:03:19 pm
Obolisk: What do you think the key strategy would be in this game if you were a rebel?
I honestly don't know. I would guess try to lynch all the cybrid, and anyone I thought might be Imperial.
Post by: obolisk0430 on June 07, 2012, 04:05:50 pm
Firstly, I blame GlyphGryph for styling those names in the list, for now I have to type them all...
obolisk
> You seem new, how does being in a real mafia and different-than-normal-mafia games feel? Confident of your abilities?
Also, if you were an enforcer, would you start gung-ho with your skill, or something else? And why?
Confidnece level = meh.
I wouldn't go gung-ho with enforcer kills, because I've read several games where the guy with nightkills does that, kills a bunch of town, and screws everyone over.
Post by: obolisk0430 on June 07, 2012, 04:06:49 pm
PPE: And I did it twice, too. God damnit.
Obolisk: Have you read any of the other Cybrid games?
No. I'll get around to it in a bit.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2012, 04:18:30 pm
Well for one you bombard people with questions when they don't even get to their single question.Tiruin: I know you've been asked this before, but humor me: Why do you ask a question of everyone instead of just a handful?Is it wrong to do such? I prefer asking everyone something so I can get answers from everyone. People pick particular others to question, and some probably won't be active and only answer questions in Day 1 as mostly it goes around in RVS unless a slip is made, or a consensus is reached.
For example:
Before Think even finishes his first and second sentences you shoot four wild questions at him. He hasn't even gotten to his question yet.Tiruin: You're a Cybrid, the third to join the Cybrids. You do not have a convert, and there's an Enforcer around who may or may not be a rebel. What is your first priority?Hm, the third, Think0028? Why the ordinal numbering? Why the mention of the convert? Why the faction specification?
It makes it seem like you're playing hard to get and building up a mountain of text to defend yourself with. I like to imagine it as a huge castle or tower where you try to surpass everybody in theoretics. I definitely disagree with the play-style and think it's scummy but I've mentioned this in the four or five games I've played with you this year. And so far you don't seem to understand what that entails.
Well whatever.
ToonyManHave you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.
>
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091129041434/uncyclopedia/images/b/b8/Thin_cursor.gif) . . .The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Also, if you were the Machinator, what would be your basis of judgement on who to convert?
If I was the Machinator I would do exactly what I did in the previous game. I nailed the rambunctiously loud rebel leader and also the quiet and calculating imperial commander.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2012, 04:19:44 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 07, 2012, 05:53:31 pm
Zombie Urist: If you were an unaligned survivor, would you claim so at any point? Say three Imperials are dead by D2, would you attempt to coax the rebels into recruiting you, or take your chances for the game to be over on its own?Probably. If it looks like it'll be significantly easier to win with one of the teams I would try to do so.
zombie uristYes. I've realized that I should trust my intuition and scumhunting more and rely less on inspect results. If I were commander, I would first invite known officers and then the people doing the best scumhunting.
> Was your experience as the investigator worthwhile? How did that make you feel on your results in the past ServantCorps game?
Also, let's say you're the Imperial Commander. What would be your basis on inviting other players, and if so, what type of personality would you most likely invite among us all?
Why? Are you not confident enough of your own abilities?Borno: If you were a rebel, which rebel role would you like the most?The persuader. If I was a rebel, I would need to persuade a lot of people to help me win.
Post by: Bookthras on June 07, 2012, 08:40:43 pm
BookthrasFor a man who has moved mountains, it is no great feat to crush a worm.
> How did you see everyone else as the Emperor?
What do you think about the current playerset before you now?I think it's a fun mix with a little bit of everything. New, old, good, bad, goatfuckers and non-goatfuckers... has the potential for a great game.
Hapah:
I'd say my biggest takeaway from my last game is "Don't try to play the numbers game".
Cybrids have around even chances of hitting Imps and Rebs, Rebs are much more likely to hit Imps instead of Cybrids, since there are more of the former than the latter.
I'd want my faction to have majority [...] if the other faction has more players then the Cybrids should (theoretically) have better odds to hit them, right?Good job. Question for you: if you were a rebel and could choose, would you prefer to be an informant or an organizer, and why?
Borno: please give your own answer to the question you asked ToonyMan, and explain any differences with his.
Post by: Hapah on June 07, 2012, 09:17:03 pm
Hapah:God damnit. You're right, of course; I just can't help myself! Numbers are a part of the game, but if my gut and the numbers don't agree I should go with my gut.I'd say my biggest takeaway from my last game is "Don't try to play the numbers game".Cybrids have around even chances of hitting Imps and Rebs, Rebs are much more likely to hit Imps instead of Cybrids, since there are more of the former than the latter.I'd want my faction to have majority [...] if the other faction has more players then the Cybrids should (theoretically) have better odds to hit them, right?Good job. Question for you: if you were a rebel and could choose, would you prefer to be an informant or an organizer, and why?
And Informant, I guess: Seems more proactive. Organizer you have to hope you get lucky with Rebels targeting you, Informant you can go out and gather intel. And knowledge is the most valuable commodity there is!
Post by: Toaster on June 07, 2012, 11:10:58 pm
Book:
Toaster: What do you think about the changes to the rules? Specifically I noticed that inviting someone to a chat now seems possible as a free action, rather that at night end, that there's a specific role to guard against conversions, and that the infiltrator can have multiple brains. How do you think these will affect the game? Did you notice any other changes? If you were a Rebel Martyr, how would you choose when to use your bomb?
I think the biggest change will be the possibility of neutral survivors- it gives the cybrids a potential fakeclaim if investigated, and only a converter-role can out them... which outs the converter to the cybrids. The chat will just make it slightly more useful- I don't think it has generally seen much use. The infiltrator has always had the possibility of multiple brains.
As a rebel martyr, I'd fire it off either as a potential LYLO breaker or when I thought someone's death was worth my own life.
Tiruin:
Toaster
> Let's say you are an SK, the Metagen//Defective one, who do you fear the most among us all? How would your playstyle differ when it came to picking targets?
Convincing other cybrids that I'm not a threat, assuming I was a defective convert. Other than that, my day game would be the same- I'd just pick out those I deemed the greatest threat.
Borno: Are you happy with your alignment? Which role in that alignment would you most like to be?
Dariush: Let's assume you're not cybrid, and it's day 3 and you got an "unknown" result from your inspect target the previous night. Would your alignment matter in deciding to claim it or not?
Toony: Then why are you acting like one?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2012, 11:33:39 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2012, 11:35:02 pm
Post by: borno on June 08, 2012, 12:24:28 am
Bookthras:
Borno: please give your own answer to the question you asked ToonyMan, and explain any differences with his.I would probably go for the enforcer too, because it would be best to get rid of any threats early in the game.
Hapah:
Hapah:
What group would you like to be on most? Rebels, Imperials, Cybrids, or other?borno: Either Imperial or Rebel, since they're both functionally similar. I don't enjoy scum as much as town, typically.So, you prefer to be town. What type of town, though? Anyway, Unvote.
Toaster:Borno: Are you happy with your alignment? Which role in that alignment would you most like to be?Is it just me, or are you fishing? If you were a rebel, and I said I was an imperial, you would try to lynch me, would you not? So, let's turn this question around. How would you react if I ask you this question?
Post by: Think0028 on June 08, 2012, 01:06:12 am
Hapah: You don't know Dariush very well, do you.
Hm, the third, Think0028? Why the ordinal numbering? Why the mention of the convert? Why the faction specification?
Assuming I'm a...Survivor Metagen then, as you didn't say what skills I have.
Hypothetically, I don't see if it would matter on what side the Enforcer was on. My first priority would be to lie low and generally try to discern who would be that cop, judging by his statements. Then I report what I know to the rest, if us cybrids have a quicktopic chat.
Tiruin: 0) These are hypotheticals. I provide extra details that may or may not be true or even relevant because I'm curious how people respond to the details as much to the questions.
1) The reason I mentioned an Enforcer instead of a cop was to in fact elicit a change in response: the existence of a cop is always in question til he dies, but it's pretty obvious when an Enforcer is around. The faction of the Enforcer matters in case you suspect he'd go after Imps or Rebels first if he was one faction or the other.
2) If you noticed, my questions were very parallel, and the other two mentioned two dead Cybrids. That was the frame of mind I was in when I wrote your question, and that's why I mentioned you were the third. Also alleviates the burden of being the starting Cybrid from your shoulders. One factor you didn't appreciate, however, is whether or not your conversion would have been noticed by the other players.
3) No, flavor is a trap. Every time I think I've figured out flavor, it bites me in the ass.
4) I'd say a plethora of Officers would really screw over the Rebels. In all seriousness, a good Zealot can really screw the Rebels over.
5) Speaking of reacting to details... Out of the 3 people who've responded to my question so far, you're the only one who seems to take offense at the question. Is there something wrong with me setting up a specific situation? Why the negative reaction?
Toonyman: How many cybrid deaths do you want to see before you feel confident that Cybrids are no longer a threat?
Post by: zombie urist on June 08, 2012, 01:08:49 am
Think: Why are asking a question from a VK test?
Post by: Hapah on June 08, 2012, 01:10:43 am
That moment as town when everything "clicks", and you see through all the misdirections and half-truths and deceit. That moment of realization is probably the most enjoyable experience (for me, anyway) that you can get in a Mafia. Bonus points if you can articulate it well enough to get people to act on it and it turns out to be correct. Scum is just so much damn work: the game feels so much simpler as a town, all you have to do is play as best you can. You don't have to consider how every action and phrase will reflect on your scumbuddies, you don't have to feign ignorance when you know damn well what the facts are. Playing a third party/"other" lies somewhere in the middle (I realize I sorta omitted that from my initial response).
PPE:
Think: I'll readily admit that I don't, I've only got the impression that I've picked up from my readings. It just seems like his life expectancy is not so good, from what I've gathered so far.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2012, 02:50:04 am
Toonyman: How many cybrid deaths do you want to see before you feel confident that Cybrids are no longer a threat?I don't think that could ever be safely confirmed. However I think at three dead cybrids we should be late enough in the game that simple fact-checking and scum hunting should lead to victory.
Did you ignore my question because you thought it was worthless or missed it by accident? It's my first post.
Post by: Bookthras on June 08, 2012, 03:20:42 am
Post by: Dariush on June 08, 2012, 03:55:53 am
Dariush: are you going to grace us with your presence?Nah, fuck you all. Oh wait, I'm already here. Er, nevermind.
What do you think of ToonyMan's reaction to Tiruin's questions?Scummy as all fuck.
Which aspect of the new rules do you think will have most impact on the game?...There were rule changes? Huh.
If you were a survivor, under which circumstances would you claim so, and how would you convince the other players to believe you?Never. Unless someone gets an inspection result on me, when it won't matter anyway.
Daruish: Have you ever considered trying to change your sometimes.....abrasive style? I've got no issue with it, but between it and your experience it seems like your life expectancy isn't so great most games.Nah, this way I can rub it in everyone's faces that I was right and they were wrong at the end of the game. Also, fuckheads like Jack and Darvi are going to continue lynching people (i.e. me) for saying 'won't' instead of 'wouldn't' a single time regardless of the people's (i.e. mine) level of abrasiveness. So no.
Dariush: You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back, Dariush. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Dariush?Which desert?
> Are you going to flail and rage, or rage with style?Depends on the general stupidity of players. If it's Nuke+BMC+DrPhibes+Zrk-level of stupidity, flailing will definitely be required. Otherwise with style.
Nevertheless, if you were a Martyr, when would you use your ability?
Only if I was invited to the rebel chat and somebody got an inspect on an imperial we suppose must be high-ranking. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my hide.
Dariush: Let's assume you're not cybrid, and it's day 3 and you got an "unknown" result from your inspect target the previous night. Would your alignment matter in deciding to claim it or not?My alignment wouldn't matter. However, what would matter is my rough estimate of imperial and rebel team size.
Toony, why the epic overreaction to Toaster's question and Tiruin's elaboration? I think that's the first time ever I saw you use an exclamation mark. Also, why do you think Tiruin is going to use his ton of random questions to defend himself? From here, it definitely looks like he accomplished his goal of those questions by making you jump out.
Hapah,
As a Rebel, Imperial.Why not Cybrid?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2012, 05:38:53 am
Post by: Tiruin on June 08, 2012, 06:59:00 am
When I wrote that, negativity wasn't in my mind.
Quote
Out of the 3 people who've responded to my question so far, you're the only one who seems to take offense at the question. Is there something wrong with me setting up a specific situation? Why the negative reaction?
Reaction test.
Toony
Oh no that makes absolutely no sense. Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit. For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts. He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!Very nice try to goad me with that there. What reasonable questions have you asked me?
Well, other than telling me that I asked too many questions, I ask you the same I did to Hapah. Are questions bothering you? And on your note on the "wall of text", it's pretty easy to read and see what I'm trying to say. You seem to be implying something else, though.
Don't imply that I'm not keeping an eye, by that 'hasn't even read'. Or are you trying to subtly set things in stone, judging by your tone there? Or the formatting.
Post by: Hapah on June 08, 2012, 09:20:35 am
Daruish: Fair enough answer, I guess.
As for your question, I'd like to trim back the most numerous enemy first. I'll take what I can get, though; if I was a Rebel and someone derped and outed themselves as a Cybrid, sure I'd lynch 'em.
Who would you prefer to see lynched, in each case?
Post by: Toaster on June 08, 2012, 12:33:20 pm
Think:
1) The reason I mentioned an Enforcer instead of a cop was to in fact elicit a change in response: the existence of a cop is always in question til he dies, but it's pretty obvious when an Enforcer is around. The faction of the Enforcer matters in case you suspect he'd go after Imps or Rebels first if he was one faction or the other.
Why neglect the possibility that the "Enforcer" is actually a SK Cybrid?
Borno: You're right- I am fishing for your alignment. I would say yes, I'm happy with my alignment, and nice try sucker.
Dariush: Are you going for a railroad lynch on Toony?
Post by: Dariush on June 08, 2012, 12:46:59 pm
Dariush: Are you going for a railroad lynch on Toony?Nope. My vote was the second on him (with the first being your RVS one), it's early in the first day and I may juuuust have meant is as a pressure vote.
Toony, there you go again. Why! Are! You! Shouting?! Also this:
Oh no that makes absolutely no sense. Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit. For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts. He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!Pretty nice slip right there. That is an implication you know more than him if I ever saw one. Explain your words.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2012, 03:58:57 pm
Very nice try to goad me with that there. What reasonable questions have you asked me?They were accusations mostly. If you really love questions that much then can you actually respond to my accusations with something? It would really help.
Well, other than telling me that I asked too many questions, I ask you the same I did to Hapah. Are questions bothering you? And on your note on the "wall of text", it's pretty easy to read and see what I'm trying to say. You seem to be implying something else, though.Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish. It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.
**I'd like a nice response from Think too (about me and you).**
Don't imply that I'm not keeping an eye, by that 'hasn't even read'. Or are you trying to subtly set things in stone, judging by your tone there? Or the formatting.Question is pointless, I doubt I could influence others by simply 'making up stuff'. Everything I say is coherent and reasonable. Are you admitting to reading the thread and then ignoring it? I can find that understandable if nothing has really come up but that's not the case here.
Toony, there you go again. Why! Are! You! Shouting?! Also this:Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game? I would be making him too bad a player otherwise.Oh no that makes absolutely no sense. Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit. For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts. He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!Pretty nice slip right there. That is an implication you know more than him if I ever saw one. Explain your words.
Post by: borno on June 08, 2012, 06:36:22 pm
Borno: You missed my question.Ugh. I had my answer all typed up, but then it got deleted.
I am confident in my abilities, but having more people on my side then on the other would be part of my win conditions, so it would be easier to win if I had a lot of people on my side.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2012, 09:02:18 pm
Think, why is everybody posting the same way you are? Is your team functioning too well?This was a RVS vote but I want at least a response or there's no reason to unvote Think.
You oddly missed my single question to you in this post Tiruin. Did you realize your failings and decided to ignore it? That's no good.Have you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 08, 2012, 09:41:46 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 08, 2012, 09:49:14 pm
Book: With Dariush's response, do you still think your vote should stay on him?
Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 08, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
I find it interesting that you didn't put in your quote that was in my question to you. Did you think people might take it out of context?Meh. Mostly I just don't like nested quotes.
Quote
I'll take what I can get, in any case.You will, eh? Why?
Quote
borno: Either Imperial or Rebel, since they're both functionally similar. I don't enjoy scum as much as town, typically.
Quote
I'll take what I can get, though; if I was a Rebel and someone derped and outed themselves as a Cybrid, sure I'd lynch 'em.That'd most likely result in an Imperial win though, wouldn't it?
I have a bad feeling about you, and you're not likely to be a rebel.
Toony:
Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish. It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.
Post by: Bookthras on June 08, 2012, 11:05:46 pm
Roughly 24 hours until day end.Dude, you're not going to end the day during the weekend, are you? I assumed it would end on Monday.
Toaster:
Why does it trouble you if I'm voting Dariush?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 08, 2012, 11:08:17 pm
GG:Roughly 24 hours until day end.Dude, you're not going to end the day during the weekend, are you? I assumed it would end on Monday.
Wait what? This.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 08, 2012, 11:19:37 pm
But fine, we'll end on Monday night if two more people want to (not using up your extend), but I can't promise that means you'll have your results then - Mondays are like the worst possible night for me, I probably won't be able to actually process the day end until at least Tuesday..
From then on out we'll be reverting to my standard 48hr day, 24hr night schedule.
If this isn't acceptable, let me know in the other thread - we can discuss it there.
Post by: borno on June 08, 2012, 11:20:27 pm
Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Did you think that I would fall for that question because I am fairly new to Mafia? Plus, you even wouldn't answer the question when I asked it back at you.
And yeah, I realised too late that my post was broken.
Urist Imiknorris:
borno: Either Imperial or Rebel, since they're both functionally similar. I don't enjoy scum as much as town, typically.
Quote
I'll take what I can get, though; if I was a Rebel and someone derped and outed themselves as a Cybrid, sure I'd lynch 'em.That'd most likely result in an Imperial win though, wouldn't it?
I have a bad feeling about you, and you're not likely to be a rebel.
[/quote]
What do you mean by that? How does it matter that he's not a rebel?
Post by: Hapah on June 09, 2012, 12:17:21 am
UI: Let me clarify. As a Rebel, I'd prefer that the D1 lynch flip Imperial. Cybrid flips are still good, of course, but I'd prefer an Imp flip.
And if a Cybrid does derp it up and confirm that he is, in fact, a cybrid, of course I'd like to lynch him. It's a great lynch for the Imps, and I'd take a near-certain Cybrid lynch over a possible mislynch as a Rebel.
What's up with the crossed-out line? I don't get it, but I am all kinds of tired. Yell at me if I missed something.
Mod: +1 on the freebie weekend-extend. I think the Saturday ending might catch a few people off guard, judging from the replies so far.
I'll make a real post once I stumble out of bed in the morning.
Post by: zombie urist on June 09, 2012, 01:03:03 am
Post by: Dariush on June 09, 2012, 02:57:53 am
Woah shocker the same two people that always vote me are voting me again. Time to go around in circles.And your point is?... It's not my fault if you're being the same fuckass as you always are, even though this time it's of a slightly different flavor.
Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?First, that's wrong. Second, way to ignore my question about shouting for the second post in a row.
Dariush: I don't understand your case on Toony. Please explain it to me.- Reaction to Tiruin's question;
- Either panicking or simply pointless shouting;
- Consistent ignoring of my questions about the above;
- Implication that the fact that I've voted him in past games means that my case this time ought to be dismissed out of hand.
Servant Corps, why did you hack GG's account? Or if you didn't:
GG, how about a votecount BEFORE THE DAY ENDING?! Did some of SC's utter inability to run a game rub off on this gametype and you picked it up? :-/
Post by: Tiruin on June 09, 2012, 06:15:24 am
Woah shocker the same two people that always vote me are voting me again. Time to go around in circles.Coherent and reasonable in your eyes. From where I see it, you're throwing implications into my face and one-sided questions. Just reading this thread and ignoring it won't help my cause at all.Don't imply that I'm not keeping an eye, by that 'hasn't even read'. Or are you trying to subtly set things in stone, judging by your tone there? Or the formatting.Question is pointless, I doubt I could influence others by simply 'making up stuff'. Everything I say is coherent and reasonable. Are you admitting to reading the thread and then ignoring it? I can find that understandable if nothing has really come up but that's not the case here.
Scumhunting, bro. You can't win if you ignore everything.
Hm, about that vote.
Pressure.
Does that add up? It looks like it does, and it looks like it's working perfectly. And nice work on noticing those votes, shocking how mine sticks to you now. Putting an 'always' fits the case.
Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question? Testing there.You oddly missed my single question to you in this post Tiruin. Did you realize your failings and decided to ignore it? That's no good.Have you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Of course I heard of it, I'd bet you knew about it too, seeing as you posed one on me in the last Imperial-Rebel-Cybrid style mafia (Servant's). But as you've brought that notion up, how do you see that as a loaded question?
Servant Corps, why did you hack GG's account? Or if you didn't:Mod: I, too, want it to end on Monday.
GG, how about a votecount BEFORE THE DAY ENDING?! Did some of SC's utter inability to run a game rub off on this gametype and you picked it up? :-/
Servant made a slip-up in that game, let it rest.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 09, 2012, 08:09:30 am
Quote from: Dariush
GG, how about a votecount BEFORE THE DAY ENDING?! Did some of SC's utter inability to run a game rub off on this gametype and you picked it up? :-/The majority of me votecounts are upon request - I almost never make one before the last 24 hours otherwise. Yeesh, you've been in enough of my games to know that. :P I'll also usually do a votecount or two as the end of day gets closer, which is no longer the case for this game. If you want a votecount - ask!
However, since I was checking in to do one now anyway, and that's kind of like a request, I'll throw one out. ;)
Votecount:
Hapah(2) <- Urist Imiknorris, Borno
Dariush(2) <- Toaster, Bookthras
ToonyMan(2) <- Tiruin, Dariush
Tiruin(1) <- Think0028
Urist Imiknorris(1) <- Hapah
Think0028(1) <- ToonyMan
Borno(1) <- zombie urist
Not Voting: obolisk
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 09, 2012, 08:37:18 am
UI: Let me clarify. As a Rebel, I'd prefer that the D1 lynch flip Imperial. Cybrid flips are still good, of course, but I'd prefer an Imp flip.But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.
And if a Cybrid does derp it up and confirm that he is, in fact, a cybrid, of course I'd like to lynch him. It's a great lynch for the Imps, and I'd take a near-certain Cybrid lynch over a possible mislynch as a Rebel.
Quote
What's up with the crossed-out line? I don't get it, but I am all kinds of tired. Yell at me if I missed something.It was a question I wanted to ask you but then saw that you had basically already answered. Feel free to answer it anyway if you want.
If an Imperial was lynched D1, a cybrid was lynched D2 (note: a cybrid, not the cybrid, and not an Infiltrator), and an Imperial was killed N2, how would you go about D3? Who would you be looking for and how would you go about finding them?
borno:
Quote
What do you mean by that? How does it matter that he's not a rebel?The bad feeling? I think he's scum of some sort (and I'm still trying to figure out what's making me think that), but since he's probably not a rebel (see my first response above), that leaves cybrid or survivor.
Post by: Dariush on June 09, 2012, 08:59:32 am
But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.Waitwhatwhy?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 09, 2012, 09:09:53 am
Post by: Dariush on June 09, 2012, 09:23:52 am
Because the Imperials have a number advantage, so if the cybrid gets gone D1, Imperials win, Rebels lose.Nope. Firstly, cybrid may get pulled from the imperial pool as well as rebel one, so they may also lose due to Cybrid lynch. Secondly, a faction must lack killing roles from the beginning for it to lose after a cybrid lynch.
Post by: Hapah on June 09, 2012, 12:16:32 pm
Hapah:Daruish already hit it; that'd only be true if there were Cop roles and nothing else. And I'll take a lynch on a certain enemy over a potential ally.
But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.
It was a question I wanted to ask you but then saw that you had basically already answered. Feel free to answer it anyway if you want.Oh, okay. I thought it'd just be deleted, but I couldn't figure out if there was a question or somethin' there that I wasn't seeing.
If an Imperial was lynched D1, a cybrid was lynched D2 (note: a cybrid, not the cybrid, and not an Infiltrator), and an Imperial was killed N2, how would you go about D3? Who would you be looking for and how would you go about finding them?As what faction? And there are a LOT of unknowns there, but I could try to take a stab at it.
The fact that there was no N1 kill is the thing that immediately jumps out, regardless.
And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.
Also, where are Think and Obol?
Post by: Dariush on June 09, 2012, 12:22:20 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 09, 2012, 12:28:13 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 09, 2012, 02:23:07 pm
You want my opinion on you and Tiruin, to be clear? I don't see a particular question you're asking, just demanding an answer. Currently my opinion about you two is that you've latched onto each other due to your conflicting personalities. That said, I still want to inquire further.
Question for you: why should I tell you what I think of you? Are you trying to get an ally against Tiruin in your argument?
Tiruin: Hell of a reaction test, voting me because of a question. You've been taking some weird-ass interpretations of Toony's posts. He's saying that you hadn't read the thread, because you weren't posting (not even unusually not posting, just you hadn't posted yet). Then you disagree. Then he asks if you read the thread and not post. Then you disagree. What is it? There are times where you aren't posting. What are you doing in those times?
Hapar: Events outside my control kept me away from a computer from 8:00 am to 11:30 pm yesterday. Did get to see the Avengers finally, though.
zombie urist: The VK test is designed to test people's reactions. It's a reaction test, if you will. I try to mix things up with my RVS questions.
Dariush: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.
Toaster: Part of the reason is I forgot, but the other part is I didn't want to have the Cybrids be obviously the biggest threat in the scenario.
Post by: Bookthras on June 09, 2012, 02:56:32 pm
Ugh. I had my answer all typed up, but then it got deleted.
Ugh. Had my post all ready, but then I accidentally deleted it."I was going to post, but my browser ate it" is a typical scummy excuse for activelurking. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Two strikes so far.
You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Borno: Are you happy with your alignment? Which role in that alignment would you most like to be?Is it just me, or are you fishing? If you were a rebel, and I said I was an imperial, you would try to lynch me, would you not?
Toaster:For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?
Hapah:
And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.Really? His case boils down to "reaction to Tiruin", plus being loud & hardheaded. Is this what you are using as justification for a third-on-bandwagon vote? Suspicious of you to jump on it, I think.
Mod: request prod on Obolisk, please.
Obolisk: when you get here, please give your general reads on the game, and answer the questions I ask Borno above, and also answer the RVS questions I asked Tiruin & Zombie on this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3351570#msg3351570) post.
Post by: Hapah on June 09, 2012, 04:16:39 pm
Barring a major foot-in-mouth moment, all anyone has to go on right now is suspicions and reactions. At the time I cast my vote, there was a 3-way tie between myself, Toony, and Dariush (I checked the spelling just for you <3). I'm not going to vote myself, obviously; and I think Dariush looks a little better than Toony. I couldn't make a case on either that's bulletproof, and turning a 3-way tie into a 4-way tie isn't particularly helpful either, so I'm going with my gut.
And Toony still has 2 days to defend himself, too! We need to try to reach something that at least roughly resembles a consensus before D1 ends. I'll be away for a few hours, but I'll sneak in a total re-read and post later tonight.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2012, 05:54:15 pm
Toony:They respond to the question directly with their own questions, not even answering what the initial person asked. They're not evading because the topic is still the same but I can't say they're answering it either.Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish. It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.
I think it does matter. It shows that you have a personal grudge with me and aren't voting me for logical reasons. Clear evidence to that would be myself flipping town and scum randomly on you.Woah shocker the same two people that always vote me are voting me again. Time to go around in circles.And your point is?... It's not my fault if you're being the same fuckass as you always are, even though this time it's of a slightly different flavor.
So you are saying Tiruin acted scummy? And I don't find using an exclamation point shouting because that's the only reason you can vote me and you're an idiot. Hah!Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?First, that's wrong. Second, way to ignore my question about shouting for the second post in a row.
Toony: Wow, I'm an idiot. Totally missed your vote+question. As for why everyone's asking questions like me, I blame the fact that I was the first poster and people were subtly influenced by how amazingly intelligent I was. That or my questions were just fairly normal theoretical questions that are one of the more interesting RVS questions to do.Unvote Think. Okeydokey.
You want my opinion on you and Tiruin, to be clear? I don't see a particular question you're asking, just demanding an answer. Currently my opinion about you two is that you've latched onto each other due to your conflicting personalities. That said, I still want to inquire further.
Question for you: why should I tell you what I think of you? Are you trying to get an ally against Tiruin in your argument?
I wanted to ask what you thought of me and Tiruin because I thought it would be better than just one of us by ourselves.
TIRUIN
Coherent and reasonable in your eyes. From where I see it, you're throwing implications into my face and one-sided questions. Just reading this thread and ignoring it won't help my cause at all.Woah you got me man. Voting me because you always vote me, genius.
Scumhunting, bro. You can't win if you ignore everything.
Hm, about that vote.
Pressure.
Does that add up? It looks like it does, and it looks like it's working perfectly. And nice work on noticing those votes, shocking how mine sticks to you now. Putting an 'always' fits the case.
Also did you just say you can't ignore the thread because you need to scum hunt? That...I was accusing you of ignoring the thread! Can you please answer if you actually willingly ignored the thread or not, clearly.
It's not really rhetorical because you answered by saying "of course I heard of it".Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question? Testing there.You oddly missed my single question to you in this post Tiruin. Did you realize your failings and decided to ignore it? That's no good.Have you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Of course I heard of it, I'd bet you knew about it too, seeing as you posed one on me in the last Imperial-Rebel-Cybrid style mafia (Servant's). But as you've brought that notion up, how do you see that as a loaded question?
Anyway here we have it. Another mistake. I question you how you could possibly answer that question legitimately aaaaand you just ask me a question about how I see it as a loaded question. Can you see that? You question me before answering my question, and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote! You're playing scummy Tiruin and it's not bullshit reasons like using exclamation marks.
I see it as a loaded question because I can't answer it.
"A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption, e.g., a presumption of guilt."
The presumptive guilt was Toaster already claiming me being a cybird.
Post by: borno on June 09, 2012, 06:39:36 pm
Borno:I was talking about the same post. I made a post in which I answered zombie urist, but deleted it. I said it at the top of my post, and when zombie questioned me about it, I answered the same. So, it was only once that I deleted my post.Ugh. I had my answer all typed up, but then it got deleted.Ugh. Had my post all ready, but then I accidentally deleted it."I was going to post, but my browser ate it" is a typical scummy excuse for activelurking. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Two strikes so far.
Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Borno: Are you happy with your alignment? Which role in that alignment would you most like to be?Is it just me, or are you fishing? If you were a rebel, and I said I was an imperial, you would try to lynch me, would you not?
Toaster:For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
[/quote]
The most scummy thing I've seen. I don't have enough time for mafia in weekdays, but I'll probably have time to re-read the thread now that its the weekends.
Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?I'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.
Anyway, who would you think is the most scummy person right now, except for me?
Post by: borno on June 09, 2012, 06:40:27 pm
Mod: My vote is currently on toaster.
Post by: Bookthras on June 09, 2012, 08:35:34 pm
Book: Isn't your case on borno essentially "reaction to Toaster" and "I don't think your browser really ate your posts" ?Yes, but it was also a reaction test (had he panicked about it, for instance, it'd be telling), and was not a bandwagon vote. You, on the other hand, jump onto Toony's bandwagon without even asking him a question, and unlike me, you call Dariush's case "reasonable", without bothering to make your own.
Sure, a tie at the end of day would be bad, but there's plenty of time to break it; sure, we don't know much on D1, but you're not just shooting from the hip, you're bandwagoning on what seems the easiest lynch at the time. Scummy.
Borno:
I was talking about the same post.Hm. Reasonable.
False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.
Anyway, who would you think is the most scummy person right now, except for me?Your attempt at deflection is noted. But it's a fair question: Hapah is climbing; his bandwagon vote looks pretty bad to my eyes. I haven't yet decided which of Toony/Dariush/Tiruin is scummier, the whole situation seems farcical and ridiculous. Obolisk's lurking is irritating me as well; the cybrid laying low all D1 letting others battle it out seems like a good noobscum strategy to make sure he makes it to night.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 09, 2012, 08:52:11 pm
Yes, I do need to use the preview button more.
Mod: My vote is currently on toaster.
I went back through and couldn't spot one. You should consider re-voting for the next count (there's no penalty to revoting someone. Even unvoting doesn't mean anything unless you want to be explicitly voting for no one. I simply go by the last vote you make.)
Obolisk has been prodded, as requested.
Post by: zombie urist on June 09, 2012, 09:54:55 pm
zombie urist: The VK test is designed to test people's reactions. It's a reaction test, if you will. I try to mix things up with my RVS questions.But... how are you going to do that eye checking thing through the internet?
UI
UI: If you were an imperial, what would be your strategy to differentiate rebels from cybrids?Recognize that any distinctions I make have a good chance of being wrong, and so not bother differentiating between them at all.
But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.How do you reconcile these 2 posts?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 09, 2012, 10:53:39 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 10, 2012, 12:10:24 am
Toaster:
Why does it trouble you if I'm voting Dariush?
It doesn't; your lack of response to him does, though. You vote him, ask him a question, he answers it, and you say nothing more to him, moving your vote over without so much of a mention of him. Why?
Borno:
Toaster:Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Did you think that I would fall for that question because I am fairly new to Mafia? Plus, you even wouldn't answer the question when I asked it back at you.
And yeah, I realised too late that my post was broken.
Your inexperience is why you got the question and not someone else. I did respond to it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3355513#msg3355513)- by blowing it off, which is pretty much what you did as well. It's the best response to the question, which is why I didn't press you further.
Dariush: I'd argue you're attacking him simply because you like attacking him, in the same sense that you were always after NUKE when he played. You don't react well to differences in style, rather than actual scumminess.
Hapah:
And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.
This is incredibly lazy. D1 and low post count are absolutely not an excuse to parrot someone else blatantly and hop mindlessly on the bandwagon. I want original content from you, and soon.
This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3358940#msg3358940) doesn't make you look better.
Post by: borno on June 10, 2012, 12:20:13 am
Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second. And it isn't necessarily the most scummy, but just the most scummy thing I've seen. Why do I have to repeat myself to you all the time, Bookthras?False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.
Mod: Toaster.
Post by: Tiruin on June 10, 2012, 01:15:46 am
TIRUINFirstly, what? I am not, nor do I ever ignore any Mafia games I am in. I do not ignore this thread. Period. You were accusing me in the past tense, you say? No. You asked a question that was off tangent before, and are now accusing me based on me not answering a stupid question such as that.Coherent and reasonable in your eyes. From where I see it, you're throwing implications into my face and one-sided questions. Just reading this thread and ignoring it won't help my cause at all.Woah you got me man. Voting me because you always vote me, genius.
Scumhunting, bro. You can't win if you ignore everything.
Hm, about that vote.
Pressure.
Does that add up? It looks like it does, and it looks like it's working perfectly. And nice work on noticing those votes, shocking how mine sticks to you now. Putting an 'always' fits the case.
Also did you just say you can't ignore the thread because you need to scum hunt? That...I was accusing you of ignoring the thread! Can you please answer if you actually willingly ignored the thread or not, clearly.
Secondly, who insinuated that I was ignoring this thread? You. It's pretty obvious that lack of activity never wins games, scum or town. Let me round the question to you - are you being dense, putting up reasons like those to look active?
Thirdly, "Voting me because you always vote me, genius." > "I vote you because I always do". Right. That is...a really stupid reason to put out. I don't vote people just because I did in the past games. Actually, I do vote people, but that is when I find them scummy. Pressure, generally, then vote stick.
What does that have to do with the current situation by the way? Why has my vote made such an impact on you?
Quote
You question me before answering my question, and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote! You're playing scummy Tiruin and it's not bullshit reasons like using exclamation marks.Oh how astute of you, good sir. I answered your question. You're pretty much trying to prove facts without tangible evidence on me. Does my formatting make me scummy? Would it make better sense if I moved that single sentence below a declarative sentence to make it feel better, like I'm doing right now? Did I ever accuse you of formatting for being scum, like those exclamation points?
Quote
...and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!I know what a rhetorical question is, and asking a player if he ignores a Mafia game is one in my eyes. I'm not stupid, Toony. Don't try to ever implicate me on reasons of not planning to answer questions like those. Mostly all your posts on me are disconnected in their logic, and if I'm wrong there, point it out for me because I want to see how you view it.
Also,
Toony:They respond to the question directly with their own questions, not even answering what the initial person asked. They're not evading because the topic is still the same but I can't say they're answering it either.Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish. It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.
Who in the world is this 'they'?
Think
Tiruin: ...He's saying that you hadn't read the thread, because you weren't posting (not even unusually not posting, just you hadn't posted yet). Then you disagree. Then he asks if you read the thread and not post. Then you disagree. What is it? There are times where you aren't posting. What are you doing in those times?Looking at his posts on me, I see it as trying to build a case on what he assumes is true from my viewpoint. There are obviously times when I'm not posting, and I'm doing everything else at that time - ranging from Real Life, Literature work, RTD study, Creative Writing, Graphite Sketching, Medical Studies, Chemistry work and taking care of my family to list a few. I can't be online all the time, obviously, but you and everyone else who is viewing this have my word that if I enter a Mafia game, I stick to it until I cannot post no longer - i.e. death or game end.
On why I disagree: I look for what catches my eye as scummy. Did you see the basis of his 'read and post' ideology?
Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game? I would be making him too bad a player otherwise.
Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit. For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts. He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!
The case is completely atrocious in the fact that Toony is operating on presumed ignorance than actual scumhunting. He even puts meta in the mix to implicate me.
On that note, Toony: Where did you derive your conclusion in the last sentence of the last quote before this one?
Hapah
And, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.Did you just lay down a vote here without pressing the case, borrowing from what Dariush says and not trying to go with your own words or...give anything for him to say? If there is a lack of things to go on, why aren't you questioning?
borno
Why is Toaster's question the most scummy thing you've ever seen, and why aren't you pushing your cause on him to fortify your vote?The most scummy thing I've seen. I don't have enough time for mafia in weekdays, but I'll probably have time to re-read the thread now that its the weekends.Toaster:For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
And...where is your answer to
Quote
QuotePlease answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to thatI'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.
Post by: borno on June 10, 2012, 01:33:15 am
Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?I thought that Hapah's posts looks like no effort was put into them, and that they were just made to un-even votes against himself. Tiruin doesn't seem to be too scummy in my eyes. Toony's response was justified, as it is RVS, and Dariush's response can be justified in the same way.
Where is your answer toRight here.QuotePlease answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to thatI'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.
Post by: Dariush on June 10, 2012, 04:26:22 am
Dariush: It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's completely hypothetical.But, how come I'd be there?
I think it does matter. It shows that you have a personal grudge with me and aren't voting me for logical reasons.Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely and continued pushing your 'GAAAAAH DARIUSH HATES ME, IGNORE HIM EVERYONE11!!!!11'.
Clear evidence to that would be myself flipping town and scum randomly on you.The fuck? Blackmailing the town already?
So you are saying Tiruin acted scummy? And I don't find using an exclamation point shouting because that's the only reason you can vote me and you're an idiot. Hah!...Wow, you're even more stupid than I thought. No, I'm not saying Tiruin acted scummy. Don't put words in my mouth. No, shouting isn't the only reason I'm voting for you. How can you be so stupid? Stop being so stupid, you stupid.
So, your post added the following points to my case, in addition to all the previous:
- Blackmailing the town with your 'gaaaah I'll flip town honeeeest';
- Putting words in my mouth about Tiruin;
- Completely ignoring everything I accused you of earlier;
- Lying that my only point has been about you shouting. Which actually contradicts your earlier 'I'm only voting you because I hate you' argument.
Dariush: I'd argue you're attacking him simply because you like attacking him, in the same sense that you were always after NUKE when he played. You don't react well to differences in style, rather than actual scumminess.Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely...
Waaaait a miiiinute. Why are you defending Toony using his own argument
Post by: Hapah on June 10, 2012, 10:33:23 am
I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally. The ideal response would have been someone nailing me to the wall once I made myself an easy target; this would strongly suggest (to me, anyway) that either Dar or Toony was a Cybrid, as I would have been the perfect scapegoat/distraction to get their ally off the hook. Being able to point at a group of three and say "two are probably Cybrid" would have been DAMN nice, but I didn't get that "guns blazing" sort of response that I was hoping for. Still, there is information to be gathered from how people responded:
Spoiler: Response Analysis (click to show/hide)
Think made a long post since then, but it was just answering questions, really. ZU made a quick post, but seeing how it's the weekend it's entirely possible he quickly skimmed the thread and missed my flashing neon sign.
And finally, I thought UI was alignment-fishing a lot, but upon re-read I only found two explicit instances.
Unvote.
I'll sit down and sift through this Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing later today, though I'm not looking forward to it: I suspect reading it will be kinda like hearing nails on a chalkboard.
More later!
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2012, 02:20:08 pm
I'll sit down and sift through this Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing later today, though I'm not looking forward to it: I suspect reading it will be kinda like hearing nails on a chalkboard.I can assure you it's not that fun.
Firstly, what? I am not, nor do I ever ignore any Mafia games I am in. I do not ignore this thread. Period. You were accusing me in the past tense, you say? No. You asked a question that was off tangent before, and are now accusing me based on me not answering a stupid question such as that.Fine. I wanted a clear "I am not ignoring the thread" response.
Secondly, who insinuated that I was ignoring this thread? You. It's pretty obvious that lack of activity never wins games, scum or town. Let me round the question to you - are you being dense, putting up reasons like those to look active?What happened was Dariush claimed I 'slipped' by saying "Tiruin hasn't read the thread yet" and I refuted by saying "If Tiruin hasn't posted then he hasn't read the thread". Of course you reacted completely incomprehensible to that and only instilled more confusion in me.
Thirdly, "Voting me because you always vote me, genius." > "I vote you because I always do". Right. That is...a really stupid reason to put out. I don't vote people just because I did in the past games. Actually, I do vote people, but that is when I find them scummy. Pressure, generally, then vote stick.I expected as much. You first vote them for 'pressure' and then you just let your vote stay. That of course wouldn't include any actual even somewhat logical evidence.
What does that have to do with the current situation by the way? Why has my vote made such an impact on you?The crime of insignificance.
Nope. That was Dariush I was talking to in that quote. Not sure why you answered that except to try to confuse matters, again.QuoteYou question me before answering my question, and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote! You're playing scummy Tiruin and it's not bullshit reasons like using exclamation marks.Oh how astute of you, good sir. I answered your question. You're pretty much trying to prove facts without tangible evidence on me. Does my formatting make me scummy? Would it make better sense if I moved that single sentence below a declarative sentence to make it feel better, like I'm doing right now? Did I ever accuse you of formatting for being scum, like those exclamation points?
Can you finally tell me this:Quote...and you never plan to answer my questions like with the previous quote!I know what a rhetorical question is, and asking a player if he ignores a Mafia game is one in my eyes. I'm not stupid, Toony. Don't try to ever implicate me on reasons of not planning to answer questions like those. Mostly all your posts on me are disconnected in their logic, and if I'm wrong there, point it out for me because I want to see how you view it.
Please please explain to me how I could have answered that question. I didn't mean just the first sentence with the actual question mark, that's my fault. But at least the passage I want is bolded by me now.Have you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
You or any incriminating party.Who in the world is this 'they'?They respond to the question directly with their own questions, not even answering what the initial person asked. They're not evading because the topic is still the same but I can't say they're answering it either.Yeah, what I'm saying is you build up a cache to distance yourself from what attacking players on you are even trying to accomplish. It's like blocking a question instead of evading it.Would you kindly elaborate on exactly what the fuck this means, preferably in small words? I'm feeling stupid this evening and can't figure out what you're saying.
Do you mean "I would be making him too bad a player otherwise."?Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game? I would be making him too bad a player otherwise.Tiruin hasn't even read (or at least hasn't replied) to me yet Dariush you twit. For him presently he doesn't even know what the situation is right now beyond his first few posts. He has made no attempt to target me since he plans to target everybody!On that note, Toony: Where did you derive your conclusion in the last sentence of the last quote before this one?
I would consider a player would reads this thread and has nothing to say scummy. Of course there are exceptions like not many new posts but as I said that wouldn't be a case here. I never thought you were ignoring the thread Tiruin I just wanted to question you about it which led to probably half of this?
You mean the case I ignored for being stupid? Oops. You could have written all those four or so points as "Dariush hates Toony" anyway, begrudger.I think it does matter. It shows that you have a personal grudge with me and aren't voting me for logical reasons.Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely and continued pushing your 'GAAAAAH DARIUSH HATES ME, IGNORE HIM EVERYONE11!!!!11'.
So you are saying Tiruin acted scummy? And I don't find using an exclamation point shouting because that's the only reason you can vote me and you're an idiot. Hah![/quote]Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?First, that's wrong. Second, way to ignore my question about shouting for the second post in a row.
...Wow, you're even more stupid than I thought. No, I'm not saying Tiruin acted scummy. Don't put words in my mouth. No, shouting isn't the only reason I'm voting for you. How can you be so stupid? Stop being so stupid, you stupid.[/quote]
You left out your beautiful quote Dariush! (I added it in).
"Can't I assume if he hasn't posted then he hasn't read the game?" - Toony
"First, that's wrong." - Dariush
Explanations people. I didn't have much to go on so of course I would take the aggressive and suggest Tiruin could be ignoring the thread. Telling somebody they're wrong is pretty useless without explanations why! Of course you turned the matter into the case of shouting...so so stupid as they say.
- Blackmailing the town with your 'gaaaah I'll flip town honeeeest';That was for past games. It was evidence for this game, dumb dumb~
- Putting words in my mouth about Tiruin;Not explaining anything they say.
- Completely ignoring everything I accused you of earlier;The "Dariush hates Toony" stuff? We all know that!
- Lying that my only point has been about you shouting. Which actually contradicts your earlier 'I'm only voting you because I hate you' argument.Huh? This is either illogical or completely trivial, I can't tell.
Holy hell, let's see what else...
MOD Vote Count
Urist Imik
There is nothing to reconcile."Has absolutely nothing to say."
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2012, 02:21:59 pm
Post by: Tiruin on June 10, 2012, 02:48:16 pm
Can you finally tell me this:That was mostly an RVS-Reaction testing question on how you'd respond to that as basically, this was my first thing to you.Please please explain to me how I could have answered that question. I didn't mean just the first sentence with the actual question mark, that's my fault. But at least the passage I want is bolded by me now.Have you ever heard of a loaded question? I can't answer his question because I'm not a cybrid! Do tell me how I could possibly answer his question. It was not a hypothetical or anything which might have slipped you up.The question was: What kind. You answer with 'not'. Why so? And, 'this time'?Toony: What kind of Cybrid are you this time?I'm not actually a Cybrid this time.
Hapah: You missed this,
HapahAnd, Toony. Daruish's case seems reasonable enough, especially considering this is only D1: We don't really have much to go on.Did you just lay down a vote here without pressing the case, borrowing from what Dariush says and not trying to go with your own words or...give anything for him to say? If there is a lack of things to go on, why aren't you questioning?
PFP
Post by: Bookthras on June 10, 2012, 02:50:04 pm
Because he answered the question to my satisfaction, and I didn't have a follow up to make. I seldom acknowledge or unvote just for the sake of it unless there's a follow up point or question to make or day end is near.Why does it trouble you if I'm voting Dariush?It doesn't; your lack of response to him does, though. You vote him, ask him a question, he answers it, and you say nothing more to him, moving your vote over without so much of a mention of him. Why?
Borno:
Still false. The first time you didn't remember to answer, you remembered to decline to answer. The second time you didn't forget, you answered it. You never forgot it, you never missed it.Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second.False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.
You still haven't answered the why of it: why did you loudly object to answering it the first time, while casually and effortlessly answering it the second time, as if there was nothing wrong with it? This inconsistency is really scummy. And why do you lie about it, twice in a row now?
Hapah:
I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally.Maybe. Or maybe you were caught in a scummy act, and your predictable scummy reaction was to backpedal fast, and claim "uh, I meant to do that! it was a trap for the scums!" as justification. I don't quite buy it.
Zombie, Imiknorris: Please give me your read of Toaster, Hapah, and each other, and ask each of those a question.
Post by: borno on June 10, 2012, 03:21:40 pm
Borno:Oops. By first time, I must of meant second time. But why are you saying that a simple mistake was a lie? Couldn't you see it was an accident?Still false. The first time you didn't remember to answer, you remembered to decline to answer. The second time you didn't forget, you answered it. You never forgot it, you never missed it.Sorry, by miss it I meant forgot it. I remembered to answer the question the first time, but forgot the second.False. You didn't miss the question. You explicitly declined to answer it, and according to you, it was the most scummy thing in the game so far. Why do you lie about it, and answer it nonchalantly now as if it was a mere oversight?You are panicking over a question regarding your alignment. Betraying your fears like a noobscum would. Answer please: are you or are you not happy with your alignment? If you could have chosen, which alignment would you have preferred?Sorry about missing a few questions, but I had to rush my post. Yes, I am happy with my alignment; The alignment that I would chose would be an imperial role.
You still haven't answered the why of it: why did you loudly object to answering it the first time, while casually and effortlessly answering it the second time, as if there was nothing wrong with it? This inconsistency is really scummy. And why do you lie about it, twice in a row now?
Anyway, I objected to answer what my preferred role in the alignment, because it was fishing for my alignment, as toaster later agreed. I, however, forgot to answer the 'Happy of your alignment?' part on my second revision of the deleted post.
Anyway, more coming after school.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 10, 2012, 03:29:18 pm
Hapah(2) <- borno, Urist Imiknorris
Dariush(1) <- Toaster
ToonyMan(2) <- Tiruin, Dariush
Urist Imiknorris(1) <- zombie urist
Tiruin(2) <- ToonyMan, Think0028
borno(1) <- Bookthras
Not Voting: Hapah, obolisk
Post by: Tiruin on June 10, 2012, 03:43:35 pm
borno
You missed this.
Why is Toaster's question the most scummy thing you've ever seen, and why aren't you pushing your cause on him to fortify your vote?The most scummy thing I've seen. I don't have enough time for mafia in weekdays, but I'll probably have time to re-read the thread now that its the weekends.Toaster:For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Post by: Hapah on June 10, 2012, 03:54:58 pm
Hapah:Skepticism is good. If everyone was simply nodding their heads I'd be worried.I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally.Maybe. Or maybe you were caught in a scummy act, and your predictable scummy reaction was to backpedal fast, and claim "uh, I meant to do that! it was a trap for the scums!" as justification. I don't quite buy it.
The couple games that I've been in here have shown me that I'm poor at scumhunting, so I decided to try this little stunt. Questions get us going round and round on D1 (but are still useful, for context in later days), but I was hoping actions could be more telling. And if I want people to act, I need to give them a reason to act.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 10, 2012, 09:48:58 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 10, 2012, 11:23:26 pm
Dariush: I'd argue you're attacking him simply because you like attacking him, in the same sense that you were always after NUKE when he played. You don't react well to differences in style, rather than actual scumminess.Wrong. I outlined my case yesterday. You ignored it completely...
Waaaait a miiiinute. Why are you defending Toony using his own arguments?
I didn't ignore it. I read it and countered with my own interpretation of events, which I still stand by. To answer your question, it is because we share the same opinion- that you seek after people you don't like the style of.
Nevertheless, while I think your case is built on bile instead of suspicion, I think you at least come by it honest and that you believe what you're saying. Unvote Dariush.
Borno: You, however, are slinging shit just to see what sticks.
OK, finished re-reading the thread. Unvote:Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?I thought that Hapah's posts looks like no effort was put into them, and that they were just made to un-even votes against himself. Tiruin doesn't seem to be too scummy in my eyes. Toony's response was justified, as it is RVS, and Dariush's response can be justified in the same way.Where is your answer toRight here.QuotePlease answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to thatI'll get to that once I've re-read the thread.
Lazy, lazy, lazy. Could you put any less effort into your vote, your response, and into the game as a whole? You just hopped off me when you realize no one was buying your nonsense and hopped on to somebody who was getting lots of attention. You posted three times between the post of his in question and your vote of him- I simply don't believe you could have read that post, not reacted to it, then come around and base your whole case off it at a later date.
Hapah: The Solifuge Strategy is not one I'm a fan of- you better be careful with doing that. I'm still keeping an eye on you.
Post by: borno on June 10, 2012, 11:46:39 pm
As promised, here are my reasons for voting you:
It seemed as though you were voting people to get the tie off you, not voting them because you were suspicious of them
Your posts didn't have enough reasons; looked lazy
You were just going onto a bandwagon
Of course, as Bookthras said, you might of been using it as an excuse for a scum slip. But I guess I'll unvote for now.
Tiruin:
EBWOP:I only had a question he asked, and the vote didn't get much more out of him, so I decided to drop it.
borno
You missed this.Why is Toaster's question the most scummy thing you've ever seen, and why aren't you pushing your cause on him to fortify your vote?The most scummy thing I've seen. I don't have enough time for mafia in weekdays, but I'll probably have time to re-read the thread now that its the weekends.Toaster:For Xmas, Santa is bringing you a mirror. And really, that is the most scummy thing? Seems to me you are keeping your vote on whoever has pressured you the most.Borno: Who do you suspect and why? I think you're still voting me, but your post had broken quotes.You. Although your question is not much to base a vote on, Its still the most scummy thing I've seen so far.
Toaster:
You ninja. ;D
Post by: zombie urist on June 11, 2012, 12:03:17 am
Zombie, Imiknorris: Please give me your read of Toaster, Hapah, and each other, and ask each of those a question.Toaster, Hapah:rebel
UI: not sure, leaning towards imperial.
Hapah: Why do so many of your posts promise more content later? And where is this promised content? Have (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3360956#msg3360956) some (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3358940#msg3358940) examples. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3357454#msg3357454)
Toaster: What's the "solifuge strategy"? Also why aren't you following "Toaster's #1 scumtell" this game? See above.
UI: What are your reasons for voting Hapah?
Can't have a 4-way tie. Borno please explain this:
I'm not too confident of my abilities; but the only way to learn is to play. I'm quite sure about this game, though.
I am confident in my abilities, but having more people on my side then on the other would be part of my win conditions, so it would be easier to win if I had a lot of people on my side.
Post by: borno on June 11, 2012, 12:16:24 am
Unvote. I see the two posts were talking from different points of view.Oops. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit there. I'm not to confident, but I'm pretty sure of myself. But why is that reason to jump on my bandwagon, Zombie Urist?Zombie, Imiknorris: Please give me your read of Toaster, Hapah, and each other, and ask each of those a question.Toaster, Hapah:rebel
UI: not sure, leaning towards imperial.
Hapah: Why do so many of your posts promise more content later? And where is this promised content? Have (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3360956#msg3360956) some (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3358940#msg3358940) examples. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3357454#msg3357454)
Toaster: What's the "solifuge strategy"? Also why aren't you following "Toaster's #1 scumtell" this game? See above.
UI: What are your reasons for voting Hapah?
Can't have a 4-way tie. Borno please explain this:I'm not too confident of my abilities; but the only way to learn is to play. I'm quite sure about this game, though.I am confident in my abilities, but having more people on my side then on the other would be part of my win conditions, so it would be easier to win if I had a lot of people on my side.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 12:22:31 am
Hapah:
As promised, here are my reasons for voting you:
It seemed as though you were voting people to get the tie off you, not voting them because you were suspicious of them
Your posts didn't have enough reasons; looked lazy
You were just going onto a bandwagon
Of course, as Bookthras said, you might of been using it as an excuse for a scum slip. But I guess I'll unvote for now.
Of course, borno, as you said, you're repeating reasons of what Bookthras said and then unvote when you're called out on it.
Why did you unvote, and will you borrow from what Bookthras said, or give your own reasons why you unvoted?
Blatantly bandwagoning there?
Post by: zombie urist on June 11, 2012, 12:44:21 am
Oops. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit there. I'm not to confident, but I'm pretty sure of myself. But why is that reason to jump on my bandwagon, Zombie Urist?How can you be not confident but sure of yourself? That's what confidence means. I'm voting you because you seem to be having trouble answering a very easy question. Are you confident or not?
Post by: borno on June 11, 2012, 12:47:08 am
I said that I was going to give my reasons later, and looking back, I realise that my reasons had already been said. I unvoted him because, looking back, it appears that he really wasn't acting the same that he was in other games. Of course that could mean that he is scum, and cracking under pressure. But I didn't really have much to go on then.Hapah:
As promised, here are my reasons for voting you:
It seemed as though you were voting people to get the tie off you, not voting them because you were suspicious of them
Your posts didn't have enough reasons; looked lazy
You were just going onto a bandwagon
Of course, as Bookthras said, you might of been using it as an excuse for a scum slip. But I guess I'll unvote for now.
Of course, borno, as you said, you're repeating reasons of what Bookthras said and then unvote when you're called out on it.
Why did you unvote, and will you borrow from what Bookthras said, or give your own reasons why you unvoted?
Blatantly bandwagoning there?
Zombie Urist:
I'm getting confused right now. I'm not overly confident, but I still am confident, even though its only a little bit.
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 12:51:49 am
ZU: It's sometimes hard for me to block out time to write up a proper post. It's usually easy for me to sneak in a short one even if I'm at work, though. As for the examples:
The first example was pending a re-read of the whole Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing, which I've now completed (Toony was right, I think I would have preferred the nails-on-chalkboard). I don't have the time for a long writeup, but the short version is that I think Toony looks a little better after reread, Tiruin looks a little worse, and Dariush is Dariush. Toony seems better at outlining his reasons (and more willing to, as well), and I'm seeing more static than answers from Tiruin.
The second one was me trying to bait the hook. I'm not very good at it. :/
And I'd completely forgotten about the third, honestly.
Toaster: I kinda figured it had a name! I actually put a little more thought into it than you'd think would be necessary: The only other time I've wanted to make myself look scummy is as Jester, and I like to play that with a lighter touch. I had to act like an oaf for this one to work.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 12:56:52 am
Tiruin: You're accusing him of bandwagoning an unvote?Um, no. He voted on Hapah then unvoted.
How did you get to that reasoning?
Tiruin:Could you quote-snip those reasons? Also, you...are doing such because of comparison to what he did in other games?I said that I was going to give my reasons later, and looking back, I realise that my reasons had already been said. I unvoted him because, looking back, it appears that he really wasn't acting the same that he was in other games. Of course that could mean that he is scum, and cracking under pressure. But I didn't really have much to go on then.=snip=-snip-
Do you believe meta is an efficient way to scumhunt? And of course, it could mean he is scum.
Why didn't you press him, then? Where I see it, Hapah didn't even address your vote on him, then you directly unvoted because people were calling you out on it.
PPE: Hapah
Yes, the whole argument is muchly like that.
Could you outline what you mean by Toony looks better, I look worse and Dariush looks like himself?
Post by: Dariush on June 11, 2012, 02:30:12 am
ZU, why are you bandwagoning Borno close to the day end for a pretty weak reason? (er, ninja'd)
Hapah:
The first example was pending a re-read of the whole Dar/Toony/Tiruin thing, which I've now completed (Toony was right, I think I would have preferred the nails-on-chalkboard). I don't have the time for a long writeup, but the short version is that I think Toony looks a little better after reread, Tiruin looks a little worse, and Dariush is Dariush. Toony seems better at outlining his reasons (and more willing to, as well), and I'm seeing more static than answers from Tiruin.That is extremely lazy. How about oh I dunno, quotes to support your opinion?
The second one was me trying to bait the hook. I'm not very good at it. :/
And I'd completely forgotten about the third, honestly.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 11, 2012, 02:51:14 am
1: Derp.Because the Imperials have a number advantage, so if the cybrid gets gone D1, Imperials win, Rebels lose.Nope. Firstly, cybrid may get pulled from the imperial pool as well as rebel one, so they may also lose due to Cybrid lynch. Secondly, a faction must lack killing roles from the beginning for it to lose after a cybrid lynch.
2: Oh yeah, martyrs are technically killing roles, aren't they.
Hapah:
Quote
And finally, I thought UI was alignment-fishing a lotThat's sort of the point of scumhunting.
I made myself out to look a fool with my last couple of posts intentionally. The ideal response would have been someone nailing me to the wall once I made myself an easy target; this would strongly suggest (to me, anyway) that either Dar or Toony was a Cybrid, as I would have been the perfect scapegoat/distraction to get their ally off the hook. Being able to point at a group of three and say "two are probably Cybrid" would have been DAMN nice, but I didn't get that "guns blazing" sort of response that I was hoping for.Ah, so you're covering for your bandwagon by claiming it's a gambit? So tell me, what do you infer from the lack of the expected reaction?
Quote
As what faction? And there are a LOT of unknowns there, but I could try to take a stab at it.Your own, perhaps?
borno:
OK, finished re-reading the thread. Unvote:Nice bandwagon with no actual pursuing of your target.Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?I thought that Hapah's posts looks like no effort was put into them, and that they were just made to un-even votes against himself. Tiruin doesn't seem to be too scummy in my eyes. Toony's response was justified, as it is RVS, and Dariush's response can be justified in the same way.
Oops. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit there. I'm not to confident, but I'm pretty sure of myself. But why is that reason to jump on my bandwagon, Zombie Urist?You don't need to vote to OMGUS, you know.
Book:
Reads:
Toaster: Haven't seen anything really off about him - neutral read, leaning imperial.
Hapah: may be imperial, probably not rebel, may be cybrid, more data needed.
zombie urist: I don't think he's cybrid, but I'm leaning slightly rebel on him, as his borno vote seems a bit contrived.
Questions:
Toaster: Can't think of one. Deal with it, it's 4 AM.
Hapah: Look up.
ZU: Look down.
ZU:
Quote
UI: What are your reasons for voting Hapah?I decided to try to hammer away at someone until I got a better read on them. I picked Hapah.
Why did you vote borno over Toony, Dariush, or Tiruin?
Post by: borno on June 11, 2012, 03:07:35 am
borno:OK, finished re-reading the thread. Unvote:Nice bandwagon with no actual pursuing of your target.Please answer these: what's your read on Hapah's bandwagon vote, Tiruin's wall of questions, Toony's reactions to it, and Dariush's reactions to that?I thought that Hapah's posts looks like no effort was put into them, and that they were just made to un-even votes against himself. Tiruin doesn't seem to be too scummy in my eyes. Toony's response was justified, as it is RVS, and Dariush's response can be justified in the same way.Hapah:
As promised, here are my reasons for voting you:
It seemed as though you were voting people to get the tie off you, not voting them because you were suspicious of them
Your posts didn't have enough reasons; looked lazy
You were just going onto a bandwagon
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2012, 04:37:04 am
Toony, pretty much nothing of what you say has any relation to what I say. It is randomly riddled with pointless sarcasm, deflections and simply unrelated shit. Your last adressed to me part of your WoT had exactly one sane tidbit, about Tiruin.The thing is, you're not saying what. I can't waste my time explaining myself when you aren't. I could probably find the Tiruin tidbit you're referencing but nothing else.
It is entirely possible that someone has enough time or ability (think school computer) to read the thread, but not enough to actually post.Fair enough, the point was already addressed by Tiruin himself. Although it is the only thing I'm happy about...
Questions:What's your reasoning for doing this?
Toaster: Can't think of one. Deal with it, it's 4 AM.
Hapah: Look up.
ZU: Look down.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2012, 09:12:06 am
Of course, as Bookthras said, you might of been using it as an excuse for a scum slip. But I guess I'll unvote for now.
Oh yeah, you're scum. Backing off as soon as you catch hell for it? Enjoy your noose.
Oops. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit there. I'm not to confident, but I'm pretty sure of myself. But why is that reason to jump on my bandwagon, Zombie Urist?
OMGUS-FoS? Why not vote him if you're not voting anyone else? (I'll answer this one for you- it's because you're scum 1) trying not to look like you're doing what I just called you out on, slinging your vote around like you don't care about it [because you're scum and don't care about your vote] and 2) trying not to look like you're OMGUS voting him.) Scum, scum, scum.
Dariush: What is your read on Borno?
Zombie:
Toaster: What's the "solifuge strategy"? Also why aren't you following "Toaster's #1 scumtell" this game? See above.
Solifuge liked to act scummy on the first day to see who attacked him and, crucially, why. He sorted out those who attacked him in a lazy/bandwagonny fashion as likely scum candidates. I don't recall it being particularly successful.
Hapah has been putting out enough content to not invoke T#1ST, but he is on my watch list for both his possibly fake scummy bandwagon and his thin actual content.
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 09:48:56 am
Urist: I inferred that Toony and Dar probably aren't Cybrids, because I would imagine that I would have gotten completely wrecked if someone built a case. That very aggressive lynch Hapah post never materialized, and I would have been a very easy scapegoat target to get their Cybrid buddy off the hook.
Dar: It was a quarter until 1 on a Sunday night and I've got to be at work at 8. I've got to build at least a little credibility back after my recent actions, and going to bed making no post at all doesn't get me very far. If it is still day when I get off I'll see if I can put something together for you.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2012, 10:11:55 am
Urist: I inferred that Toony and Dar probably aren't Cybrids, because I would imagine that I would have gotten completely wrecked if someone built a case. That very aggressive lynch Hapah post never materialized, and I would have been a very easy scapegoat target to get their Cybrid buddy off the hook.
This logic is faulty. Your theory only holds if both one of them are cybrid- it doesn't help anything in the case where one is and the other isn't- they would have no need or desire to move heat at that point.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:21:03 am
-This post-
PFP
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 10:50:48 am
PPE: Tir, I'll try to find the time.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2012, 11:14:31 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 11, 2012, 11:26:01 am
Book said ask each of them a question.Questions:What's your reasoning for doing this?
Toaster: Can't think of one. Deal with it, it's 4 AM.
Hapah: Look up.
ZU: Look down.
Post by: Bookthras on June 11, 2012, 11:28:27 am
Anyway, I objected to answer what my preferred role in the alignment, because it was fishing for myIt's a good enough answer. His early game was scummy. I pushed him, hoping that he'd break and betray deeper scumminess. He didn't. I'm not saying he's kosher, but he withstood the pressure and answered the questions well enough, so I have no more reason to vote him. However, part of the reason for my pressing him was a reaction test, of him first (had he broken under pressure it would have been interesting) and of others. Others did indeed suddenly decided he was the right lynch for this day. Interesting. Starting with:alignmentrole, as toaster later agreed. I, however, forgot to answer the 'Happy of your alignment?' part on my second revision of the deleted post.
Toaster:
Borno: You, however, are slinging shit just to see what sticks.It is you who is slinging shit and sticking it to whoever seems a likely D1 lynch. I know you know better.
Do you actually have a scum read on Borno? What do you think of his alignment or intentions and why?
Lazy, lazy, lazy.This is exactly what you're doing. Lazily jumping on a newbie for taking the (ostensibly intentionally laid) bait of Hapah's bandwagon vote. Other than that, what do you have on him? For what purpose do you want him to hang?
In particular, this quote. You are working very hard at making him look scummy. You seem to be channeling webadict:
Of course, as Bookthras said, you might of been using it as an excuse for a scum slip. But I guess I'll unvote for now.Oh yeah, you're scum. Backing off as soon as you catch hell for it? Enjoy your noose.Oops. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit there. I'm not to confident, but I'm pretty sure of myself. But why is that reason to jump on my bandwagon, Zombie Urist?OMGUS-FoS? Why not vote him if you're not voting anyone else? (I'll answer this one for you- it's because you're scum 1) trying not to look like you're doing what I just called you out on, slinging your vote around like you don't care about it [because you're scum and don't care about your vote] and 2) trying not to look like you're OMGUS voting him.) Scum, scum, scum.
Your vote is disingenuous, lazy, opportunistic, and scummy. You are not the only one, but I know you know better, so you're the scummiest.
My second scummiest choice is Hapah, but I'm very worried about Obolisk's lack of participation. He hasn't been on the forums, but being absent is a very viable noobscum tactic.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 12:20:38 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 12:36:55 pm
Toaster: I didn't (and still don't) think that both Toony and Dar are Cybrids: Their dislike of each other seems genuine. I thought it more likely that one might be Cybrid, and that their partner (I assume at least 2 Cybrid in the game) could drop the hammer on me.
Tir: It's just little things like your response to Toony here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3351960#msg3351960). You lay into him for not answering an obvious softball/rhetorical/joke question. Hell, it wasn't even your question! And then you two just go 'round and 'round about it. You blast Think in your very first post for, as I see it, providing specific information? You seem to be very combative about seemingly innocent questions.
Out of time, will try to post again before day end. May have time for short responses if anyone has questions.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 12:50:12 pm
Why do you find such questioning suspicious? Is it wrong to assert?
Toaster: I didn't (and still don't) think that both Toony and Dar are Cybrids: Their dislike of each other seems genuine. I thought it more likely that one might be Cybrid, and that their partner (I assume at least 2 Cybrid in the game) could drop the hammer on me.About this, Cybrids? Why not Rebels?
What does dislike have to do here? Do you see it glaringly obvious, that there is no hammer?
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 01:31:25 pm
And Cybrid and not Rebel because of how the game starts. Don't Cybrids know who other Cybrids are, but Imps and Rebs start in the dark? I don't have a chat, in any case.
Dar and Toony are slinging mud at each other. It's not that scum can't come up with good arguments for each other, but that tit-for-tat posting and accusations between those two makes me think they aren't together (or don't know that they are, at least). That tone is kinda hard to replicate on command. I can't do it, anyway.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2012, 03:46:39 pm
Yes, I am quite convinced he is scum. I think he is a cybrid trying to get someone lynched that isn't someone on his team.
Lazy, lazy, lazy.This is exactly what you're doing. Lazily jumping on a newbie for taking the (ostensibly intentionally laid) bait of Hapah's bandwagon vote. Other than that, what do you have on him? For what purpose do you want him to hang?
Here's where it's clear you don't understand my case. I voted him here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3362828#msg3362828) when he moved to my scummiest pick. At this point, it was as much pressure as a lynch vote. However, once this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3362882#msg3362882) and this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3362939#msg3362939) came out, it became 100% lynch. My case was stated in the posts you've quoted, but I'll say it again. I accused him of slinging his vote around, so he- without even acknowledging my vote- backed off his vote and held himself back from using it again. He changed his behavior under pressure, which is a big red flag in my book.
Post by: zombie urist on June 11, 2012, 03:47:59 pm
Yeah sorry this was my mistake. I saw the red unvote and assumed you were criticizing him for that.Tiruin: You're accusing him of bandwagoning an unvote?Um, no. He voted on Hapah then unvoted.
How did you get to that reasoning?
Hapah has been putting out enough content to not invoke T#1ST, but he is on my watch list for both his possibly fake scummy bandwagon and his thin actual content.It's funny you say this when Hapah himself admitted he forgot the follow up post.
I'm going to answer these two together.
ZU, why are you bandwagoning Borno close to the day end for a pretty weak reason? (er, ninja'd)
ZU:I'm voting Borno because he seemed to be trying to appease everyone who bothers him, which is very scummy Also because I'm still trying to understand the whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing.QuoteUI: What are your reasons for voting Hapah?I decided to try to hammer away at someone until I got a better read on them. I picked Hapah.
Why did you vote borno over Toony, Dariush, or Tiruin?
UI Why are you giving up your vote for Hapah even though you say you need more data to get a better read?
What are your reasons for voting borno over Toony, Dariush and Tiruin?
Mod: What happened to the flavor PMs that you said you were going to send out earlier?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 03:49:25 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 11, 2012, 08:13:44 pm
I don't think borno is scum, I think he's just a noobie (he was in my BM, and I got him lynched D1. Oops.). If my quick count is right I can't get a lynch on someone else, all I could do is cause a stalemate, and that doesn't help anyone.
Sorry for my terrible participation these last few days, guys. Work is killing me and I had to play sorrow-lifeguard for part of the weekend. If I don't find some slack soon I might ask for a replace, but I'm not willing to bow out yet!
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 08:29:50 pm
Hapah(1) <- borno
Dariush(1) <- Toaster
ToonyMan(2) <- Tiruin, Dariush
Tiruin(2) <- ToonyMan, Think0028
Toaster(1) <- Bookthras
borno(2) <- Urist Imiknorris, zombie urist
Not Voting: Hapah, obolisk
Edit: Sorry the vote count took so long - we'll say it ends an hour from now instead.
Post by: Bookthras on June 11, 2012, 09:21:14 pm
Day end in approximately one hour. Doing vote count now.
Crap. A tie is no good. I still think Toaster is scummy, but my vote on him is not helping. I don't think Borno is scum, so it's a toss up between Tiruin and ToonyMan. Neither of them strike me as surely scum, but somewhat scummy? sure, both of them. Perhaps Toony a bit more.
ToonyMan.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
EXPLODE BOOKTHRASS
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 09:41:35 pm
Can I still action? I was away.:o
EXPLODE BOOKTHRASS
Day action?!
Wait...day is already over by this post, isn't it. Gah.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 09:43:24 pm
Vote is currently a tie between Tiruin and borno
Hapah(1) <- borno
Tiruin(1) <- Think0028
borno(3) <- Urist Imiknorris, zombie urist, Toaster
Not Voting: Hapah, obolisk, Tiruin, Dariush
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2012, 09:44:04 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 09:45:38 pm
I suspect I may need to include actual times from now on.
Post by: Bookthras on June 11, 2012, 09:48:35 pm
EXPLODE BOOKTHRASS
Good job, bro.
Bah, humbug.
Post by: zombie urist on June 11, 2012, 09:49:09 pm
By the way, I think Toaster is voting Borno and not Dariush.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 09:51:37 pm
Spoiler: ToonyMan's Roleflip (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bookthras Roleflip (click to show/hide)
Also, yeah, forum times are definitely an hour behind for me. Weird. It's 11:00 for me right now...
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:00:51 pm
Also. Bookthras doesn't flip upon death?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:01:46 pm
And yeah, you can vote again.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2012, 10:04:53 pm
Also I'm not voting anybody GG.
Post by: Bookthras on June 11, 2012, 10:08:04 pm
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
Yup. Good job.
Funny as hell, though. But bah. I'm dead, so I'll shut up now.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:10:32 pm
Ugh. Re-read. Appears Hapah was correct on the Rebels not knowing rebels thing.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:11:17 pm
By the way, I think Toaster is voting Borno and not Dariush.
Just checked, and I'm pretty sure his last vote is on borno. If you have a more recent post that votes Toaster, let me know! Pretty important!
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:11:47 pm
I think my edit time was off, I definitely posted the "hour to end" thing at 10:11, not 9:11. (EST)Could you time it in GMT?
I suspect I may need to include actual times from now on.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:12:46 pm
This is why I can't post in GMT.
Post by: zombie urist on June 11, 2012, 10:13:25 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:14:54 pm
Day ends in 5 minutes.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:18:28 pm
ugh, still reading...
Abstain(Can we do this?)
I currently don't have enough of a read on anyone currently. borno lacked in information, but gut feelings says mostly newbie and flailing on his part. Vague enough on Toaster, UI, ZU and Think. Hapah seems strange on my part, given that currently, he's giving off only what he feels on others, but isn't directly questioning them to ascertain any one of those feels.
Post by: Tiruin on June 11, 2012, 10:20:19 pm
Mind is fuzzy, personal note: do not post without the preview.
The Abstain should've been a borno, as even if this may be a mislynch (gut feeling), it would give information on as to who is exactly who.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:22:33 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:48:39 pm
Hapah(1) <- borno
Tiruin(1) <- Think0028
borno(4) <- Urist Imiknorris, zombie urist, Toaster, Tiruin
Not Voting: Hapah, obolisk, Dariush
You don't know what happened. It was all over so quick. We were arguing - mistrust was rampant. Someone claimed ToonyMan's eyes had widened more than human's were able to at an accusation. He claimed that was stupid. Another pointed to the strange way he talked - sure, he claimed his accent was from being born on the south side, but could we trust that? And most tellingly, he seemed guilty, like he was hiding something.
A few minutes later, we discovered that he was - it just wasn't the fact that he was a cybrid.
"I'll kill all you bastards! I will! Don't think that I won't! Now, we're just going to move along and do what I say or-" ToonyMan was interrupted mid sentence by the presence of a gun pointed at his face.
"I think not, ToonyMan. In fact, I think that after a threat like that, it's better we simply play it safe and remove you from the equation. enjoy Cybrid hell, scumsucker." said Bookthras, grinning.
ToonyMan laughes. "Well, if that's where I'm going, then you're coming with me! FOR THE REBELLION! LONG LIVE FREE MARS!" ToonyMan ripped open his vest, revealing a belt of dynamite that had clearly been triggered the moment the gun was pointed at him.
"Rebellion!? AH FUCK, YOU FUCKING RET-"
The explosion was deafening, shaking the walls. Both of them were torn limb from limb, and buried in rocks. Borno... Borno was badly injured by the blast, losing a leg. To make matters worse, a large chunk of stone had landed on the middle of his back, pinning him down and, from all appearances, breaking it. He was not going to live long.
"Please..." he begged. "Please... I don't... I don't want to die here. Not like this... please... save me..."
His voice grew weaker with each word, until Tiruin stepped over, scooping up Bookthras's dropped gun and placing a single bullet in his head.
"It's better this way. Come on - the Cybrid's surely heard that explosion - We need to move. Now.
borno has been killed!
Spoiler: Borno's Roleflip (click to show/hide)
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 11, 2012, 10:48:59 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 12, 2012, 11:09:28 pm
Post by: Dariush on June 13, 2012, 11:52:51 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 13, 2012, 11:56:09 am
Urist shook his head. "I just turned the corner..."
Toaster just yells "Well, someone DO something! He's dying!"
Tiruin leans down by his side, placing his hands against the writhing mans throat. "Windpipe is collapsed. We might be able to trach that... but it looks like they also burst the artery with all this bruising, and... well... the next few minutes are going to be... There's only one thing I can really do. I'm sorry, obolisk." He stands up, and looks at the others before closing his eyes and firing off a single round into the stricken mans head. Shaking a bit, spattered in blood, he walks over to Urist and hands him the weapon. "Take this - I'm finished with mercy killings. It's your job now."
The others finally arrive, and conversation quickly starts up again. Tiruin, at least at first, simply sits on a rock and leans against the wall, trembling a bit, muttering how this wasn't what he signed up for.
Urist Imiknorris doesn't seem much happier, awkwardly tucking the pistol into his belt. He had a feeling that the rising voices behind there may well be more violence before they moved on once more.
obolisk, Imperial Commander, has been killed in the night!
Spoiler: Roleflip (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 13, 2012, 01:36:28 pm
Spoiler: I mean for fuck's sake, me, this was in his first goddamn post (click to show/hide)
UI Why are you giving up your vote for Hapah even though you say you need more data to get a better read?The data I was looking for was whether borno was the cybrid.
What are your reasons for voting borno over Toony, Dariush and Tiruin?
I didn't feel anything scummy from Toony or Dariush, and I wasn't paying enough attention to Tiruin to catch his blatant scummitude.
Post by: Dariush on June 13, 2012, 02:02:38 pm
Quote
Also because I'm still trying to understand the whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing.is just a lazy excuse.
Hapah, I'm still waiting for those quotes.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 13, 2012, 08:28:57 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 13, 2012, 09:47:22 pm
Dar, lemme see if I can get you those quotes.
Post by: Hapah on June 13, 2012, 10:37:14 pm
Tiruin is (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3351931#msg3351931) just (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3352505#msg3352505) making (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3354707#msg3354707) noise (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3357809#msg3357809). No "Can you clarify that?", not much "Here's what I think", just attack-attack-attack. It's a pretty regular pattern from him in this thread, the way I see it. It might just be his D1 scumhunting thing, but it doesn't sit right with me.
UI: You look like you're jumping to conclusions. That doesn't look like an apology for lurking to me (I did something similar myself), it just looks like an opening statement without any real meaning. I don't see the OMGUS either, though I can agree on the over-reaction.
I need to read all the posts from the dead peoples, I'll get that done tonight and make a post.
Post by: Think0028 on June 14, 2012, 12:22:11 am
zombie urist: Now that Toony's dead, do you understand the "whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing" more clearly? Are you going to act on that now?
So we're down 2 Imperials and 2 Rebels now, right? Book and Toony the rebels, and borno and obolisk the imperials. So we have 7 people alive. If the cybrid converted successfully, and they have a second conversion (the first is unknown, the second quite possible), we could be looking at MYLO.
Post by: zombie urist on June 14, 2012, 12:32:44 am
zombie urist: Now that Toony's dead, do you understand the "whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing" more clearly? Are you going to act on that now?Yes. No, tomorrow. :P
I was referring to this quote about data. "Hapah: may be imperial, probably not rebel, may be cybrid, more data needed." (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3363154#msg3363154) Also you didn't give any reasons for voting Borno, only reasons for not voting Toony, Dariush, and Tiruin.UI Why are you giving up your vote for Hapah even though you say you need more data to get a better read?The data I was looking for was whether borno was the cybrid.
What are your reasons for voting borno over Toony, Dariush and Tiruin?
I didn't feel anything scummy from Toony or Dariush, and I wasn't paying enough attention to Tiruin to catch his blatant scummitude.
ZU, your explanation for your borno vote isn't an explanation. When you voted, you claimed that your reasons are borno's selfcontradiction about the confidence thing. In your 'explanation' you cited an entirely different reason. AndI voted for Borno because he seemed to be trying to appease everyone. Examples of such are the contradictory messages and the vote switching.QuoteAlso because I'm still trying to understand the whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing.is just a lazy excuse.
Post by: Hapah on June 14, 2012, 12:36:35 am
obol was MIA for most of the game. Not much information there. I guess he was probablyy killed because nobody would protect a guy who isn't even here?
borno didn't have much information; it seems he was pressed for time, maybe? It also looks like maybe he didn't respond so well to pressure; he fidgeted in the spotlight
Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him. Their argument did seem kinda dumb.
Book suspected Toaster and myself, primarily.
Think: I can get past "The" Cybrid, as you could be referring to the faction and not to a lone cybrid individual. But who said they have a conversion at all?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 14, 2012, 02:12:05 am
Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him.Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?
UI: You look like you're jumping to conclusions. That doesn't look like an apology for lurking to me (I did something similar myself), it just looks like an opening statement without any real meaning.His explanation that he didn't see the thread has the clear implication that he is blaming that for his lack of activity until that point - completely unnecessarily.
ZU:
I was referring to this quote about data. "Hapah: may be imperial, probably not rebel, may be cybrid, more data needed." (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3363154#msg3363154)As I said, the data I was looking for was if borno was the cybrid, as I viewed him as more suspicious than Hapah. If he wasn't cybrid, Hapah was my prime suspect. But then I reread and Tiruin happened.
Quote
Also you didn't give any reasons for voting Borno, only reasons for not voting Toony, Dariush, and Tiruin.I gave my reasons for voting borno when I voted borno: Blatant bandwagoning and wielding the Finger of Oh My God You Suck.
Post by: Dariush on June 14, 2012, 03:46:09 am
I voted for Borno because he seemed to be trying to appease everyone. Examples of such are the contradictory messages and the vote switching.Contradictory messages about his own confidence are an example of trying to appease everyone?
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
Consider the pressure vote on you converted into a real one.
Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?So, you know for a fact Tiruin is a Cybrid and you know for a fact Toony knew that. Explain.
Post by: Tiruin on June 14, 2012, 09:30:24 am
Rereadeded thread. Tiruin, I should have paid more attention to you.Urist ImiknorrisSpoiler: I mean for fuck's sake, me, this was in his first goddamn post (click to show/hide)UI Why are you giving up your vote for Hapah even though you say you need more data to get a better read?The data I was looking for was whether borno was the cybrid.
What are your reasons for voting borno over Toony, Dariush and Tiruin?
I didn't feel anything scummy from Toony or Dariush, and I wasn't paying enough attention to Tiruin to catch his blatant scummitude.
Firstly, I am surprised by how much you could read from that and imply such. Like I have stated, I never make excuses for lurking, nor do I ever lurk. Check the sign-up thread, I didn't know that the main game thread was put up until Think pointed it out. After checking it, I posted my reply there and went back to work.
Lurking =/= working, unless you think RL is a whole mafia game. I wonder how I can lurk for the later periods of the day when all my cognitive functions cannot respond in a place that doesn't allow internet connection? The local time for then was:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Secondly, massive overreaction? RVS, mate. That was not an overreaction.
OMGUS? No: a vote solely in response to being voted on is what defines an OMGUS.
I'm not stupid to do such, but if I do vote on a person who has a vote on me, know that I put reasons behind that vote. I've learned enough of that in the BMs to ensure it and if you had been keener in that re-read, you should've seen more of the reason behind it: Reaction. Test.
While it may be look like bad reasons in your eyes, they were good reasons in my view. What do you see wrong and why did you call it an OMGUS?
Thirdly, I thank you for actually reading my answer, but that is what I would do in "the name of fuck and it's sakes" if I was cybrid. If you have any other way of putting it, then tell me what I did wrong in putting my priorities as one, not point it out and leave it for others to decide from fluff. You also quote mined on both, to point it out.
Fourthly, I'm assuming such, pertaining to the Survivor because from what I know, every other cybrid but that has powers. Think didn't mention any powers, so why would I add to what he didn't ask?
Hapah:Huh?Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him.Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?
You only "re-read" now and then you ask Hapah on why wouldn't Toony explode on me without giving your own reasons? Personally, I don't even know why he did so after building that case on me. What I guess from his playstyle, he goes aggressive and doesn't give up until target is lynched.
Also, I can't fathom how you came up with your last sentence. You answered Hapah's general statement with one of your own without letting the defendant...defend himself.
In the simplest way that I thought when reading this: 'Toony knew, and decided to kill the last one who voted him and I knew too.'
This is because...I didn't see the thread. What more do you want me to admit? If you aren't happy with the truth and my own time and schedule, then why do you only get to this now? As a matter of fact, why are you leaning on that whole statement for your case?UI: You look like you're jumping to conclusions. That doesn't look like an apology for lurking to me (I did something similar myself), it just looks like an opening statement without any real meaning.His explanation that he didn't see the thread has the clear implication that he is blaming that for his lack of activity until that point - completely unnecessarily.
tl;dr: Your whole case seems to be a shoddy case on me on completely non-existent principles. Why, UI?
Tiruin is (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3351931#msg3351931) just (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3352505#msg3352505) making (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3354707#msg3354707) noise (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3357809#msg3357809). No "Can you clarify that?", not much "Here's what I think", just attack-attack-attack. It's a pretty regular pattern from him in this thread, the way I see it. It might just be his D1 scumhunting thing, but it doesn't sit right with me.Those are what I think, not just blatant assault in the name of scumhunting.
To the first. RVS post, and you call my answers noise. The second is in reply to a full question, which was yours and you only call it out now. The other two were returns to others, generally Toony to gauge his response further, as I've had had a bad feeling about him ever since the start of his attack.
If you have any problems, then ask me directly. I know I need a lot of polishing in tuning my scumhunting skills, and many players out there agree. But you say this in a different way: not moving the point to me.
In what ways is my style of scumhunting not 'right' to you?
Think
zombie urist: Now that Toony's dead, do you understand the "whole Toony/Dariush/Tiruin thing" more clearly? Are you going to act on that now?What do you understand from it?
Tiruin: Why vote borno if you feel it's going to be a mislynch? You already declared you were abstaining, implicitly saying you thought it was the wrong choice anyways. There were five minutes to day end. borno had 3 votes already. Why go for it?I did not implicitly say I thought it was the wrong choice, I said I felt such due to gut feeling. I did feel it was going to be a mislynch, but also wasn't sure as to whether if he was town or not. I declined to abstain to make sure he was lynched, as from what I know, a mislynch is better than leaving doubt in the way.
borno did seem scummy to me, I admit, but that part (the feeling) was on the idea that he was a newbie. It was a choice between two evils: one being letting an unknown variable go free for another day, and the other being lynch and perhaps unveil who he truly is to let it rest. I picked the latter to clear it up. Also, the vote was to ensure my decision.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 14, 2012, 11:58:13 am
Lurking =/= working, unless you think RL is a whole mafia game. I wonder how I can lurk for the later periods of the day when all my cognitive functions cannot respond in a place that doesn't allow internet connection? The local time for then was:That's not what I meant AT ALL. I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
OMGUS? No: a vote solely in response to being voted on is what defines an OMGUS.No. An OMGUS is pressuring someone for the sole reason that they are pressuring you.
Quote
I'm not stupid to do such, but if I do vote on a person who has a vote on me, know that I put reasons behind that vote.*looks at where you voted me* Then what is that shit.
Nice OMGUS btw.
Quote
While it may be look like bad reasons in your eyes, they were good reasons in my view. What do you see wrong and why did you call it an OMGUS?What I see wrong is that it's a terrible reaction test: What reactions were you looking for? Second, "pressure" and "reaction test" are probably the most common excuses for scummy/baseless votes.
Quote
Thirdly, I thank you for actually reading my answer, but that is what I would do in "the name of fuck and it's sakes" if I was cybrid. If you have any other way of putting it, then tell me what I did wrong in putting my priorities as one, not point it out and leave it for others to decide from fluff.NO IT DAMN WELL ISN'T:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Fourthly, I'm assuming such, pertaining to the Survivor because from what I know, every other cybrid but that has powers. Think didn't mention any powers, so why would I add to what he didn't ask?So instead of asking for clarification on whether abilities were at all relevant, you simply assumed that when Think said cybrid, he meant not-really-a-cybrid.
Quote
As Hapah said, Toony was mostly focused on you. You were his main suspect, and as such, you were probably the person he believed to be the cybrid. Exploding you would be stupid in case he was right. Also, wtf does the part I bolded mean?Hapah:Huh?Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him.Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?
You only "re-read" now and then you ask Hapah on why wouldn't Toony explode on me without giving your own reasons? Personally, I don't even know why he did so after building that case on me. What I guess from his playstyle, he goes aggressive and doesn't give up until target is lynched.
Also, I can't fathom how you came up with your last sentence. You answered Hapah's general statement with one of your own without letting the defendant...defend himself.
In the simplest way that I thought when reading this: 'Toony knew, and decided to kill the last one who voted him and I knew too.'
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If you aren't happy with the truth and my own time and schedule, then why do you only get to this now?You really are bad at reading what I say, aren't you?
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As a matter of fact, why are you leaning on that whole statement for your case?If this is supposed to mean "why am I using that as my whole case?" I'm not.
Dariush: I make reasonable (imo) guesses and extrapolate from there. Reasonable guess: Toony was sincere in going after Tiruin. Do you see where my explanation comes from now?
Post by: Dariush on June 14, 2012, 12:34:04 pm
Dariush: I make reasonable (imo) guesses and extrapolate from there. Reasonable guess: Toony was sincere in going after Tiruin. Do you see where my explanation comes from now?No, you do not make reasonable guesses, you are A FUCKING DUMBASS. Or scum. Your logic goes 'Toony must have known Tiruin is Cybrid so he didn't explode him because that would make his team lose'. Toony could not have known that regardless of whether it's true. That is an incredibly stupid argument you pulled directly out of your ass. I said so in my last post and I repeat it now, but you ignored it and spewed more vomit, UI. Also, what the hell do you mean by 'sincerely' going after Tiruin? Toony didn't know the identity of his teammates. He could not have done anything 'insincere' for fear of attacking a Rebel.
ZU, I still want explanations from you.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 14, 2012, 12:35:51 pm
I randomly cycled it in and out every several seconds after day start, every several minutes after that, and every couple hours after that.
So if you saw your own name in there, that's why. And if you think you learned something from it, think again. If you looked more than once, you've probably already realized this. :P
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 14, 2012, 12:45:09 pm
Quote
Your logic goes 'Toony suspected Tiruin is Cybrid so he didn't explode him because that would make his team lose'.I altered your quote to correct the one part of my reasoning that you got wrong. I'm going to quote my response to Tiruin asking basically the same thing as you:
Quote from: me
As Hapah said, Toony was mostly focused on [Tiruin]. [He was] his main suspect, and as such, [he was] probably the person he believed to be the cybrid. Exploding [him] would be stupid in case he was right.
Now why didn't you read that?
Post by: Dariush on June 14, 2012, 12:58:44 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 14, 2012, 01:24:30 pm
Obviously he can't be confident and not confident at the same time. He wasn't answering the question based on how he felt, he answered based on what other people were asking. When I pointed this out, he made some BS excuse that he was kinda confident, but not too sure of himself.I voted for Borno because he seemed to be trying to appease everyone. Examples of such are the contradictory messages and the vote switching.Contradictory messages about his own confidence are an example of trying to appease everyone?
...What does this have to do with anything?
Post by: Hapah on June 14, 2012, 05:17:55 pm
Toaster: You want to weigh in? You haven't said a word since everything went straight to hell.
I think Toony sincerely wanted Tir dead. Toony's explosion attack was probably just a knee-jerk reaction to Book putting the noose 'round his neck with almost no time left in the day. A sentence or two from Toony before he blew up could have given us a lot more insight into why he did what he did, but it's sadly not the case (if there are any more martyrs out there, or if you're reading this to get ready for Cybrid VI, take note).
Post by: Toaster on June 14, 2012, 09:53:14 pm
So we're down 2 Imperials and 2 Rebels now, right? Book and Toony the rebels, and borno and obolisk the imperials. So we have 7 people alive. If the cybrid converted successfully, and they have a second conversion (the first is unknown, the second quite possible), we could be looking at MYLO.
Given that, what's your opinion of a no-lynch?
Hapah: I hadn't had a chance to post until now.
So...
obol was MIA for most of the game. Not much information there. I guess he was probablyy killed because nobody would protect a guy who isn't even here?
borno didn't have much information; it seems he was pressed for time, maybe? It also looks like maybe he didn't respond so well to pressure; he fidgeted in the spotlight
Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him. Their argument did seem kinda dumb.
Book suspected Toaster and myself, primarily.
Do you have a conclusion to draw from this, or are you just talking to make it look like you're hunting?
Tiruin: I've read your case a couple times, and as far as I can tell, you're voting UI because you didn't like the way he voted you. That seems awfully wordy for such a slender case- do you have anything else on him?
Post by: Hapah on June 14, 2012, 11:06:57 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 14, 2012, 11:11:29 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 14, 2012, 11:20:20 pm
Game will not, in fact, be ending in 24 hours. I've got a GWAR concert to go to.
Be sure to wear something washable.
Post by: Hapah on June 15, 2012, 12:20:58 am
Think's last post definitely got my attention, but I want to give him a chance to respond before I make up my mind one way or the other. Other than that, I don't have much of a read on him.
I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.
ZU's actions seem sincere, and I can understand his lynch on borno, even if I don't agree with it. borno didn't respond well to questions when under pressure.
And Toaster, I'm a little surprised by your actions: I really expected you to try to tease every little bit of information out of the four deaths and post your thoughts. It's entirely possible you just haven't gotten around to it yet, though (it's a bit of a read, and it looks like you've had non-Mafia obligations to tend to).
So, my primary suspects are Tir, Think, and (to a lesser extent) yourself. The Urists both appear to be acting normally, and Dar hasn't done anything to change my opinion that he isn't a cybrid. As for who is Imp and who is Reb, I don't know. At this point, I don't particularly care: We really need to get a cybrid out of the picture with the lynch today.
Post by: Think0028 on June 15, 2012, 01:40:23 am
Tiruin: What I understand from it is three players getting tangled up in each other and spawning escalating walls of text wars. I find very little illuminating about it, as it illustrates your personalities to me more than your actual roles here in the game. I believe all three of you would have jumped into the debate with great verve even if you were all confirmed town masons.
And how the hell does saying you have a gut feeling borno was a bad lynch mean you weren't thinking borno is a bad lynch? You've been twisting words all game to get very specific interpretations, and I am not liking it.
Toaster: Hrrrrrm. This is one of those situations I hate the most, as it's one of those things where there's a very correct answer but it's very hard to determine. If we lynched a cybrid today, that would be a load of pressure off of our backs, but with the risk that if we miss, we're very likely screwed. That said, if we don't lynch anyone today, we could potentially be even worse off tomorrow if they gain a conversion or a kill, at which point we are in deep doo-doo indeed.
If it was up to me, and I had to choose between lynching and not lynching... I wouldn't do it.
Post by: Tiruin on June 15, 2012, 03:28:03 am
And how the hell does saying you have a gut feeling borno was a bad lynch mean you weren't thinking borno is a bad lynch? You've been twisting words all game to get very specific interpretations, and I am not liking it.I did have a gut feeling, but caution won over it and thus led to my decision to vote him, even if it may have been redundant. Gut Feeling screamed mislynch, and what I know is that even if the end result is a mislynch, at least it gives information on a particularly scummy character.
And I haven't been twisting words at all, just stating what I know.
Hapah: I was under the impression that Cybrids always started off with one Cybrid who had a conversion of some sort. That was definitely true in the last game GlyphGryph ran, and I had assumed it was standard. Is it not?Do you mean the one where I was a parasite? I don't think that was definitely true, as I had a choice between converter roles, and a hunter//killer//goad all-in-one pack. Not all C.R.I.M games had converts as the standard cybrid, like the first.
Hapah: If you can, why not just directly ask me what you want clarified other than blindly guessing. I have nothing to hide, and if you think all I spout is noise, I'd be happy to fix that.
As for who is Imp and who is Reb, I don't know. At this point, I don't particularly care: We really need to get a cybrid out of the picture with the lynch today.So you give out what you think, and don't try to question others at that point when priorities present themselves? Leaving questions to be answered in addition to inferences would help.
Toaster
Tiruin: I've read your case a couple times, and as far as I can tell, you're voting UI because you didn't like the way he voted you. That seems awfully wordy for such a slender case- do you have anything else on him?Not so, because mostly, I saw his case against me as half-test and half-seriousness. What he states is ludicrous in my opinion. And I do, right down below.
UI
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You state that: "An OMGUS is pressuring someone for the sole reason that they are pressuring you.". I already said that I thought of Think's question as an RVS, and it obviously states that an OMGUS is about votes. A vote carries pressure, yes? Did Think vote me, at that time?
That shit you pointed out was your own observation. Restate (and you quote): a vote solely in response to being voted on is what defines an OMGUS. That was a vote, with reasons!
And, defensive? No. I was just very irate at people seeing the obvious and choosing to be stupid instead. Pertaining to your reason of my 'lurking'. Also, it seems trying to be as transparent as possible translates to being defensive. What would you prefer?
I have a bad feeling on you, and how you attack me, including how many quotes you pull without giving your own take on them or how you reason on why they make me scummy. (Quote mining and format on my posts without explanation are repeat offenders).
Also,
Hapah:UI: Let me clarify. As a Rebel, I'd prefer that the D1 lynch flip Imperial. Cybrid flips are still good, of course, but I'd prefer an Imp flip.But for a Rebel, a D1 Cybrid lynch wouldn't be good - it would be an almost-certain D1 Imperial win.
And if a Cybrid does derp it up and confirm that he is, in fact, a cybrid, of course I'd like to lynch him. It's a great lynch for the Imps, and I'd take a near-certain Cybrid lynch over a possible mislynch as a Rebel.
Summary: You set your eyes on 'cybrid' instead of scum at large, apparently following the thinking in this post. You also jump from Hapah to borno, and currently on me as if your switchiness isn't a deterrent. Why didn't you press on Hapah?
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I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?Then you twist my words and give them a biased meaning. What I think is, you want to make it an excuse even when I never even wrote that with the purpose of it being an excuse at all. Just a statement. This whole sentence finishes it. Like I said, despite my (apparent) lack of skills in scumhunting, I always make sure that I'd at least post everytime I go online.
Lastly, you state that I'm bad at reading what you say. But you return my line of thought with vague quotes and the lack of your own reasoning. All I see is:
>Excuse for posting, derived from one statement.
>OMGUS!
>Using Toony's death as a reason.
Hapah:So hit me with your actual case, other than wasting time in the day!QuoteSeriously though. What was your biggest takeaway from the Roguelike?When I know someone's scum, I should build an actual case on them before going on the offensive.
You don't seem like a cybrid to me, but another type of scum.
Post by: zombie urist on June 15, 2012, 11:43:35 am
If it was up to me, and I had to choose between lynching and not lynching... I wouldn't do it.Wouldn't lynch or wouldn't not lynch?
You don't seem like a cybrid to me, but another type of scum.What other type of scum is there?
I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.Wait what D1 action?
Post by: Hapah on June 15, 2012, 01:31:44 pm
Think: I don't think so. At least, it doesn't mention anywhere in the rules that Cybrid will always have conversion roles, but it does explicitly state that Imps and Rebs will always have a commander. So I don't think it's guaranteed, no.
Tir: Finding time for even these shorts posts is hard this week, though I'm happy I'll have a weekend to work with now.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:43:04 pm
But you didn't when you voted me?Tiruin: I've read your case a couple times, and as far as I can tell, you're voting UI because you didn't like the way he voted you. That seems awfully wordy for such a slender case- do you have anything else on him?Not so, because mostly, I saw his case against me as half-test and half-seriousness. What he states is ludicrous in my opinion. And I do, right down below.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:44:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dariush on June 15, 2012, 01:46:52 pm
Obviously he can't be confident and not confident at the same time. He wasn't answering the question based on how he felt, he answered based on what other people were asking. When I pointed this out, he made some BS excuse that he was kinda confident, but not too sure of himself.WHAT. WHAAAAAT. Answering what is asked is scummy?... Just... just WHAT.
Also, what does any part of your answer have to do whatsoever with my question? Here, I'll quote it again:
Contradictory messages about his own confidence are an example of trying to appease everyone?I sure would like to hear how different people would be appeased by contradictory statements about his own confidence.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:46:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:47:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:48:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 01:49:45 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
tl;dr: Tiruin made an excuse for lurking less than nine hours into the game, did some other unimportant stuff during RVS, OMGUSed the shit out of me when I attacked him, contradicted his original premature lurking excuse, and is now furiously flinging shit at me in an effort to get me to stop incriminating him.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 15, 2012, 02:07:31 pm
zombie urist: I cannot help but notice that you're neither voting nor attacking anyone. Who do you suspect and why aren't you doing anything about them?
Toaster: Who are your top scumpicks besides Tiruin?
Think: I'd like to report a bug with the lurker tracker: When a vote or FoS is quoted, it shows up twice.
Post by: Tiruin on June 16, 2012, 12:32:58 am
Spoiler: First post, after mine by UI (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Second (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Third (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Fourth (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Fifth (click to show/hide)
And P.S. That was no excuse, but if you want to see it that way, then I'm fine with that even after all my explanations on it.
More coming up in...8 hours from now.
Timecount?
Post by: Toaster on June 16, 2012, 12:36:41 am
I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.
I'd like to see you expound on this a bit more.
And Toaster, I'm a little surprised by your actions: I really expected you to try to tease every little bit of information out of the four deaths and post your thoughts. It's entirely possible you just haven't gotten around to it yet, though (it's a bit of a read, and it looks like you've had non-Mafia obligations to tend to).
You haven't played with me very much, so let me just give you my opinion on NK interpretation. I think trying to figure out anything on who gets NKed is diving headfirst into the WIFOM. Book/Toony is hardly useful information.
However, I'd like to know which four deaths you mean, since there are five dead players.
Think: Then why not advocate or vote for no-lynch?
Tiruin: Is your vote on UI a lynch vote? If so, when did it become one?
UI: Right now, Hapah is my secondary pick, mainly for oddball accusations and the weak hunting that I've been needling him over. Dariush... I'm trying to decide if he's being hardheaded, intentionally obtuse, or scummy. I'm leaning away from the third choice, though.
Post by: Tiruin on June 16, 2012, 12:43:17 am
Tiruin: Is your vote on UI a lynch vote? If so, when did it become one?It is a lynch vote.
First impression and reasons: WTF did he just post at the start of day.
The reasoning was vague and seemed to be pulled out of nowhere, focusing on how he viewed my thread-related ideas as an excuse. Then an OMGUS out of nowhere, leading me to lay that vote on him being the scummiest looking target. There may be others, I'm sure, but that was the first thing I've seen.
Also, it doesn't look like something a townie would say out of the blue. It struck me as weird. Reasons in my posts above.
Anyway, PFP for now. More later.
Hapah: Why do you keep on saying why you only think others as cybrid or not? Rebels are also a threat.
Post by: Toaster on June 16, 2012, 12:51:13 am
Post by: Hapah on June 16, 2012, 12:04:43 pm
Hapah: Why do you keep on saying why you only think others as cybrid or not? Rebels are also a threat.Because we can't really afford a non-Cybrid lynch today. We don't know how many Cybrids there are (I suspect 2 starting, no clue about conversions), but after four dead non-Cybrids I'm definitely nervous about the game situation. They are almost certainly the strongest faction at the moment, and we need to set them back today, or we might not see tomorrow. Trying to tease out who is Imp and who is Reb in the thread is a distraction that we can't afford at this point, in my opinion. I've got my suspicions (as I'm sure everyone does), but trying to hash them all out at this point is counterproductive.
Toaster:
Sure, but there's not much to say. Dar and Toony were tied up with 2 votes each. My reasoning went that if either was Cybrid, the unknown Cybrid (or maybe even the pressured Cybrid, though I found that option much less likely) would attack an easy target (me) to get the pressure off their scumbuddy (either Dar or Toony). Imps and Rebs don't know who their buddies are, and so they wouldn't respond in a similar fashion. The big attack case on me never appeared, only you and Book urging me to get my act together (which I liked) and borno trying to start a bandwagon on me (which I didn't like. I wanted someone to make a case that DESTROYED me, not that.) Is there some particular part that you would like clarified?I still don't think Dar is a cybrid, based on the results of my D1 actions.I'd like to see you expound on this a bit more.
I scanned the thread, and I still only see four dead men. Toony, Book, borno, and obol. Who'd I miss?And Toaster, I'm a little surprised by your actions: I really expected you to try to tease every little bit of information out of the four deaths and post your thoughts. It's entirely possible you just haven't gotten around to it yet, though (it's a bit of a read, and it looks like you've had non-Mafia obligations to tend to).You haven't played with me very much, so let me just give you my opinion on NK interpretation. I think trying to figure out anything on who gets NKed is diving headfirst into the WIFOM. Book/Toony is hardly useful information.
However, I'd like to know which four deaths you mean, since there are five dead players.
And we have a misunderstanding, I don't want to know -why- someone got killed. I agree with you, that's normally an exercise in futility for anything beyond very rough guesses like "He's good at scumhunting". But what we can do is re-read what the dead have said, since their motives should be more apparent in death. I tried to parse it into something useful, but I came up empty. I was kinda surprised that nobody really tried to pick the dead people's brains (besides UI, and only a little). Maybe people play this a lot closer to the chest than I had realized.
Post by: Tiruin on June 16, 2012, 12:20:01 pm
By his third post of the day. Here, I finalize my case on him.
Reason: when he kept on going that my single statement was an excuse on lurking. A whole seven word sentence that defined my whole plan on lurking.
Seriously, his only basis on me is that, and an OMGUS. The fact is, UI, you're basing a probability on a simple sentence that Hapah (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3371993#msg3371993) pointed out the meaning and then inflated the case.
tl;dr: Tiruin made an excuse for lurking less than nine hours into the game, did some other unimportant stuff during RVS, OMGUSed the shit out of me when I attacked him, contradicted his original premature lurking excuse, and is now furiously flinging shit at me in an effort to get me to stop incriminating him.
And I would truly love to point out this, how he disregards everything I've said and make it seem that I'm on the defensive.
Only newbies straight up OMGUS people in m honest view, i.e., a vote solely in response to a vote. More experienced players usually find reasons to vote the player voting them, and even though it's technically an OMGUS, it doesn't matter for shit, since players can find excellent and even telling reasons for their vote in response to the vote of another. It's not an OMGUS if there are good reasons behind it, and this I know from re-reading elder threads. Ones that did show the difference between terminology.
UI subtly evaded that and scrapped his first accusation of an OMGUS on me (pressure) in his post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3376112#msg3376112) earlier then went with the substitute that aimed for technicalities.
Now for that 'excuse'. "I miss this thread in my newbox..." UI pointed out that I made an excuse (despite what I claim, and what others point out). He keeps on insisting it as an excuse after I point out the truth on it and it's basically redundant to even say such because it can't even work as an excuse.
Putting it in an example form: He notes an excuse for 'lurking for less than 9 hours after game start'. From logical conclusion, he is appealing to probability as from his post later on:
I meant that you were excusing your lack of prior posting far too early for it to be reasonable to do so. How the hell would the excuse you gave do anything to cover future lurking?And the same question defines my answer. It won't do anything because it's not a damned excuse!
It's just disgusting about calling it an excuse. In between the lines, it's also akin to accusing someone of ignoring the thread completely, as the new replies part shows...threads where new replies are put. I mean, my very first post of the day (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3372907#msg3372907) already states the reason why and he repeats it ad infinitum. Also, note that he just dropped using Toony's viewpoint after I pointed it out; playing on an argument from ignorance.
As Hapah said, Toony was mostly focused on you. You were his main suspect, and as such, you were probably the person he believed to be the cybrid. Exploding you would be stupid in case he was right.and this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3376116#msg3376116)
Toony is a Rebel. Seeing it from a Rebel's viewpoint, his threats are spread out equally at Day 1. Nobody dead. Cybrid or Imperial are threats to him in equal measure.
He [Toony] believed I was scum. UI is specifying. Here, he tries to affirm a disjunction that has already disproven itself by his [Toony's] action on Bookthras. Toony didn't know the roles of anyone, seeing his flip.
Also, I've noted you [UI] say that if a cybrid dies at day 1, Imperials win. Why so?
Also, UI, you forgot this:
UI: If Toony didn't want Tiruin to die, why was he voting for Tiruin? And why are you speculating so much on this?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 16, 2012, 01:16:36 pm
Quote
What I meant was, you were using Toony's not-blowing me up without any reason why he chose Bookthras as leverage to put a case on me.NO I GODDAMN WAS NOT. MY SPECULATION REGARDING TOONY AND MY CASE ON YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS. YOU HAVE IGNORED IT.
Post by: Tiruin on June 16, 2012, 11:28:29 pm
I'll make an actual content post later, but for now:While you did, you seem to be ignoring the implications of your earlier post, hence: tie-in possibility.QuoteWhat I meant was, you were using Toony's not-blowing me up without any reason why he chose Bookthras as leverage to put a case on me.NO I GODDAMN WAS NOT. MY SPECULATION REGARDING TOONY AND MY CASE ON YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS. YOU HAVE IGNORED IT.
From where I saw it, your tone was the one that indicated it's tie-in with your case on me, as I'm seeing your vote as an attack on scum. Implying starts with the explanation to Hapah.
Hapah:Toony was mostly focused on Tiruin, but apparently didn't suspect him enough to use his explodey-boom on him.Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?
Why would he? Killing the cybrid D1 at the cost of a rebel killing role would be very likely to hand the Empire a D1 victory, yes?So, you know for a fact Tiruin is a Cybrid and you know for a fact Toony knew that. Explain.
Dariush: I make reasonable (imo) guesses and extrapolate from there. Reasonable guess: Toony was sincere in going after Tiruin. Do you see where my explanation comes from now?
Dariush:Quote from: After his responseYour logic goes 'Toony suspected Tiruin is Cybrid so he didn't explode him because that would make his team lose'.I altered your quote to correct the one part of my reasoning that you got wrong.
Regarding Toony:And, yes, it is your own explanation, but refer to my other post on the question of such before exploding into fury with capital letters. Like I said, Imperials; Cybrid, they are both threats to Rebels.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Actually, that thing you said to Hapah was speculation on a death, perhaps the reason that led to all this talk on it and where I see it, speculating on people's deaths without clear reason on 'why' is a tell for WIFOM. You cannot connect if he didn't explain.
Conjunct reasoning, why pick one over the other when you don't know anyone's role?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 16, 2012, 11:45:48 pm
Monday night, EST yo.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 17, 2012, 12:06:31 pm
That was not an excuse. I did not write it with any motive, ulterior or not to be an excuse.Then what did you write it as? If it's not an excuse, what is it?
Quote
Technically, that may be an OMGUS where you see it because the reasoning is against your own, but I did back it up with what I believe and from my viewpoint, isn't as the vote wasn't solely based on the vote itself.No, I see it as an OMGUS because when you voted me your sole reasoning was that my case against you sucked, and voting someone because of that is an overreaction. Really, your reactions are more incriminating than my original case (partly because my original case isn't very incriminating at all).
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That you continued the case on me being Cybrid by giving your explanation to Hapah without waiting for my reply on my own defense.But that's unrelated. My theory doesn't incriminate you - it's me trying to figure out why Toony would attack you but kamikaze Book. You seem to think it's evidence for some reason.
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Aren't Rebels also scum as Cybrids? Where I saw it, Toony didn't know anyone, including other Rebels.Rebels are a secondary concern. The Cybrids are more dangerous.
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I'm not implying anything there, I'm just seeing it from where the prosecution was standing. Where I see it, you were scumhunting me with reasons I didn't understand until now: in your first post in the second day. You were fervent on the belief that I was a cybrid, and also based part of that on what you thought Toony would see it as.Except you aren't seeing it from where I'm standing, because I don't know you're scum. Allow me to explain:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I would truly love to point out this, how he disregards everything I've said and make it seem that I'm on the defensive.But you are. You have been all day. You're caving in to pressure, and I'm not going to be letting up.
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Only newbies straight up OMGUS people in m honest view, i.e., a vote solely in response to a vote. More experienced players usually find reasons to vote the player voting them, and even though it's technically an OMGUS, it doesn't matter for shit, since players can find excellent and even telling reasons for their vote in response to the vote of another. It's not an OMGUS if there are good reasons behind it, and this I know from re-reading elder threads. Ones that did show the difference between terminology.a) WIFOM.
b) WIFOM.
c) But you don't have good reasons. Your case consists of not liking my case.
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Toony is a Rebel. Seeing it from a Rebel's viewpoint, his threats are spread out equally at Day 1. Nobody dead. Cybrid or Imperial are threats to him in equal measure.Not really - if they have a convert, the cybrids get stronger as the game goes on. It would be better to nip that problem in the bud first, yes?
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Also, I've noted you [UI] say that if a cybrid dies at day 1, Imperials win. Why so?Because traditionally, Imperials have a numbers advantage, and the existence of a martyr is not guaranteed.
Questions for you:
1. Why are you prioritizing rebels over cybrids?
2. Who do you think is most likely to be cybrid?
3. Why do you think I'm not cybrid?
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Here, he tries to affirm a disjunction that has already disproven itself by his [Toony's] action on Bookthras.No it hasn't, see my response to ZU. I let the evidence inform my conclusions, not the other way around.
Actually, that thing you said to Hapah was speculation on a death, perhaps the reason that led to all this talk on it and where I see it, speculating on people's deaths without clear reason on 'why' is a tell for WIFOM. You cannot connect if he didn't explain.If you're asking why I'm speculating on Toony's choice of target, it started out as me being bored, then continued by people asking me about it.
zombie urist:
UI: If Toony didn't want Tiruin to die, why was he voting for Tiruin? And why are you speculating so much on this?He was a Martyr - a rebel killing role. His continued existence would forestall any D1 Imperial victory. He could safely go after anyone he suspected to be the cybrid (because the cybrids are dangerous and the main threat), but he couldn't afford to explode them, as that would both cost a rebel and leave the rebels' chance of winning up to the setup (instaloss unless there's another martyr).
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 18, 2012, 12:22:25 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 18, 2012, 12:49:44 pm
Tiruin [3]: Think0028, Toaster, Urist Imiknorris
Urist Imiknorris [1]: Tiruin
zombie urist [1]: Dariush
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 01:11:01 pm
A harmless statement. Hapah said it perfectly.That was not an excuse. I did not write it with any motive, ulterior or not to be an excuse.Then what did you write it as? If it's not an excuse, what is it?
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I did account it. I accounted it the very moment I saw your first post of this day.Quote from: me, RVSIf <A>, then <B>.Quote from: you, earlier todayThen where's <B>?
A= I know you're scum
B= I build a case with evidence before attacking
Do you see how you slipped? You assumed <A> to be true. You didn't account for the fact that <A> is false for me - I won't know your alignment until you flip.
That post was made up of BS - from where I saw it pre-explanation, and one which I don't think a townie would do, out-of-the-blue.
And I'm guessing you're accounting the fact that you aren't scum.
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...Doesn't look like good reasons to you, obviously. Not liking your case, yes, but as the first thing that came out was an action against something that wasn't even made to be anything, i.e. that excuse. At that point, a difference in understandings came until you clarified it later on. Faulty accusing was also present: That OMGUS. Like I stated, I vote people who I find scummy, not under the shadow of U Suck.
c) But you don't have good reasons. Your case consists of not liking my case.
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Questions for you:1. Not prioritizing, I'm just happy with getting any threat to the Imperium I can find. Are you bothered by that and why?
1. Why are you prioritizing rebels over cybrids?
2. Who do you think is most likely to be cybrid?
3. Why do you think I'm not cybrid?
2. Not a good enough read on anyone as of late, as I guess the whole day 2 was built on our argument.
3. Your statements with Toony in it and how the tone worked itself. A hunch.
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zombie urist:You missed the second question, and forgot the fact that Imperials also pose another threat. Vigilantes.UI: If Toony didn't want Tiruin to die, why was he voting for Tiruin? And why are you speculating so much on this?He was a Martyr - a rebel killing role. His continued existence would forestall any D1 Imperial victory. He could safely go after anyone he suspected to be the cybrid (because the cybrids are dangerous and the main threat), but he couldn't afford to explode them, as that would both cost a rebel and leave the rebels' chance of winning up to the setup (instaloss unless there's another martyr).
Persuaders/zealots can forestall the second condition in the wincon: Numerical advantage.
6 imps, 5 rebs.
Thinking it this way:
Assuming -1 on both sides for symmetry and distribution.
Your point (martyr takes out cybrid):
5 imps vs 3 rebs, 1 cybrid left.
Seeing the OP: Imperials have a vig, pro-imp cultist, cop who reports to the Commander (in addition to him).
Rebels have a roleblocker, pro-reb cultist, cop, bomb and pseudo-commander communications expert/hacker.
Now assuming only one bomb was in place, that would leave the rest up to the setup, not including any vanilla roles and wildcards. And in your speculation, which is not related to my case, you state that he suspects to be cybrid - i.e. his lynchee. He also went into full speed in his case against me (though not fun for both sides) leaving the question: Why didn't he blow up his intended target?
Now that [statement] is countered by the 'fact' that you say he couldn't afford to explode his suspect - explicitly and questionably a cybrid (unknown factor and based on hypothesis which can only be found upon my lynch, which you really want to get on) - due to the set-up above, which is also somehow an instaloss and leaning on out-thinking the GM if anything unexpected popped up, based on a hell lot of variables. Toony didn't know anything of such and acted like a townie (in the way which he knows no other role) and ended up blowing up the commanding officer of the rebellion. The Imperials also have the advantage of communication relay between two people (mason commander and officer)
Taking that into account:
5 ; 4
3 imps, 2 rebs and 2 cybrids.
tl;dr, why did you attempt WIFOM due to boredom?
What makes a cybrid different from an imperial by blind action (seeing it from Toony's eyes)? Why is it an instaloss situation for Toony [Rebels in whole]? What makes cybrids so dangerous?
Hapah: Your post? Where are your questions that you said you'd give?
Why aren't you voting anyone?
10 hours till day end. Someone do a vote count, I'm busy. :P
3 on me - UI, Think, Toaster
1 on ZU - Dariush
1 on UI - Me
...I forget the rest and am too tired to do that. :I
And could there be flavor for borno's flip?
Post by: Dariush on June 18, 2012, 01:33:59 pm
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 01:48:17 pm
ZU: You're lurking for more than 3 days, who are your top scumpicks and why do you lurk?
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 02:24:48 pm
WHAT. WHAAAAAT. Answering what is asked is scummy?... Just... just WHAT.That's not what I meant. When "I'm not confident" is a better answer to a question he says that and when "I am confident" is better he says that.
I sure would like to hear how different people would be appeased by contradictory statements about his own confidence.Well, I doubt he was planning on people noticing these contradictions.
zombie urist: I cannot help but notice that you're neither voting nor attacking anyone. Who do you suspect and why aren't you doing anything about them?
Lurker Tracker doesn't lie so...I was attending graduation activities on Friday and through the weekend. I suspect Dariush and UI of being imperial, Hapah and Toasters are rebels, Tiruin and Think are cybrid.
ZU: You're lurking for more than 3 days, who are your top scumpicks and why do you lurk?
I haven't acted on any of this because I'm a survivor and don't really care who dies (as long as its not me). I'm still not sure of the numbers, but I think the rebels need to lynch an imperial today. Therefore,Dariush.
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 02:29:34 pm
I haven't acted on any of this because I'm a survivor and don't really care who dies (as long as its not me). I'm still not sure of the numbers, but I think the rebels need to lynch an imperial today. Therefore,Dariush.Who the what in the rebel now?
Also, excuse for lurking = survivor who doesn't care?
And...you're voting Dariush because...how/what?
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 02:32:54 pm
I'm hoping all the other rebels will join me in lynching the Dariush, who is imperial, because this is probably their last chance to do so.
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 02:35:38 pm
Why would you want to vote Dariush for being...the Dariush?
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 02:40:58 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 18, 2012, 02:42:38 pm
I'm hoping all the other rebels will join me in lynching the Dariush, who is imperial, because this is probably their last chance to do so.Other rebels?
Why claim now? Why not keep up the charade, especially with the cybrids still extant?
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 02:44:18 pm
Dariush so far doesn't look cybrid nor rebel, so I'm assuming he's imperial. I'm voting Dariush in hopes the other rebels will bandwagon and lynch him.Won't that make them...lose in the long run?
Reasons on your suspicions for everyone, please.
What made you claim in the first place and why aren't you interested in a cybrid lynch?
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 03:27:47 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 04:18:05 pm
I'm claiming now because now looks like a good time to claim. What charade?I'm hoping all the other rebels will join me in lynching the Dariush, who is imperial, because this is probably their last chance to do so.Other rebels?
Why claim now? Why not keep up the charade, especially with the cybrids still extant?
No?...Dariush so far doesn't look cybrid nor rebel, so I'm assuming he's imperial. I'm voting Dariush in hopes the other rebels will bandwagon and lynch him.Won't that make them...lose in the long run?
Reasons on your suspicions for everyone, please.
What made you claim in the first place and why aren't you interested in a cybrid lynch?
UI and Dariush are pretty clean, so I'm leaning Imperial.
Hapah and Toaster have this strange semi-buddying thing going. Hapah made some pretty useless active-lurky posts so I'm saying rebel.
Tiruin is cybrid for all the reasons UI said earlier, I'm not going to bother repeating them. I'm least sure about Think0028. I've really only have a gut feeling on him.
Currently, I don't think a cybrid lynch would help advance my win condition.
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 04:27:40 pm
Yeah, I don't believe a bit about that, cybrid scum.
One thing, survivors don't win with cybrids. They win with other humans as themselves, rebels or imperial, it does not matter.
Two, you're trying to put up a bandwagon on Dariush stating that other scum should follow in your footsteps so they might have a chance to win and that there is no other way.
Three, now looks like a good time to claim, why?! Nobody is pressuring you (other than Dariush until now) and even then, why do you claim. I want to know the reasons behind it.
Four:
'UI and Dariush are pretty clean, so I'm leaning Imperial.
Hapah and Toaster have this strange semi-buddying thing going. Hapah made some pretty useless active-lurky posts so I'm saying rebel. '
Wtf. Pretty-useless active-lurky posts designate a rebel feel and not anything else and pretty clean means direct Imperial without you even trying to question them to find out. Did a re-read and saw your activity.
Currently, I don't think a cybrid lynch would help advance my win condition.Cybrids are inimical to all life, bro. They want everyone dead, or converted to them. We want to get them killed, and to a lesser extent, Rebellious scum. You don't want to take a stand with your inferences and otherwise kill off presumed Imperials?!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 18, 2012, 04:33:52 pm
I'm claiming now because now looks like a good time to claim. What charade?The charade of being town. What makes now look like a good time? What made claiming a better choice than not claiming?
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Tiruin is cybrid for all the reasons UI said earlier, I'm not going to bother repeating them.Yes you are.
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Currently, I don't think a cybrid lynch would help advance my win condition.Oh yeah, because if they started with an Infiltrator and it had two brains, this would be MyLo, wouldn't it?
Also, would an imperial lynch help advance your win condition?
Tiruin:
One thing, survivors don't win with cybrids. They win with other humans as themselves, rebels or imperial, it does not matter.Where are you getting that?
Post by: Tiruin on June 18, 2012, 04:43:13 pm
Tiruin:Inference from OP and partial confirmation by asking GG. I connected the strings. Only Metagen types win with cybrids.One thing, survivors don't win with cybrids. They win with other humans as themselves, rebels or imperial, it does not matter.Where are you getting that?
Going offline now, because sleep. Apologies for this.
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 05:09:24 pm
Of...surviving?1. Survivors win if they survive. It doesn't matter whether cybrid/imp/rebels win.
Yeah, I don't believe a bit about that, cybrid scum.
One thing, survivors don't win with cybrids. They win with other humans as themselves, rebels or imperial, it does not matter.
Two, you're trying to put up a bandwagon on Dariush stating that other scum should follow in your footsteps so they might have a chance to win and that there is no other way.
Three, now looks like a good time to claim, why?! Nobody is pressuring you (other than Dariush until now) and even then, why do you claim. I want to know the reasons behind it.
Four:
'UI and Dariush are pretty clean, so I'm leaning Imperial.
Hapah and Toaster have this strange semi-buddying thing going. Hapah made some pretty useless active-lurky posts so I'm saying rebel. '
Wtf. Pretty-useless active-lurky posts designate a rebel feel and not anything else and pretty clean means direct Imperial without you even trying to question them to find out. Did a re-read and saw your activity.Currently, I don't think a cybrid lynch would help advance my win condition.Cybrids are inimical to all life, bro. They want everyone dead, or converted to them. We want to get them killed, and to a lesser extent, Rebellious scum. You don't want to take a stand with your inferences and otherwise kill off presumed Imperials?!
2. Rebel is a town faction in this game.
3. Because it allows me to post without worrying about hiding anything.
4. Basically. Questioning them won't give me anything more.
I'm not claiming town. I'm claiming survivor, which is third party.I'm claiming now because now looks like a good time to claim. What charade?The charade of being town. What makes now look like a good time? What made claiming a better choice than not claiming?
Yes you are.Fine. In summary...
1. Various BS with Toony about loaded questions.
2. Last minute bandwagon on Borno D1.
3. Huge overreactions to pressure.
4. BS accusations D2.
Currently, I don't think a cybrid lynch would help advance my win condition.Oh yeah, because if they started with an Infiltrator and it had two brains, this would be MyLo, wouldn't it?
Also, would an imperial lynch help advance your win condition?
[/quote]
Ummm... Maybe? I'm not too sure on the cybrid mechanics. What makes you think they have an Infiltrator anyways? A cybrid lynch wouldn't be too bad either, but I'm mostly going for an imperial lynch because both rebels and cybrids should bandwagon with me.
Post by: Hapah on June 18, 2012, 05:21:43 pm
GG: Can you confirm/deny that Survivors win with the Cybrids?
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 05:27:41 pm
My win con just says survive.
Post by: Hapah on June 18, 2012, 06:51:10 pm
Unless GG says otherwise, I'm going to assume that you can't win with the Cybrids. Looking at the role in the OP, it seems to say you can win with Rebels OR Imps, but it doesn't say a thing about Cybrids. Confirmation from GG would be great, but I'd think you would be 110% certain before exposing yourself like that. If you can win with the Cybrids, then good on you.
I don't follow your reasoning for trying to get everyone to lynch Dar. It helps your wincon if you are certain that he's an Imp, sure, but you're counting on Rebel votes. At this stage, I believe everyone has more enemies than friends. If the Rebs did go along with you, they'd just end up as Cybrid meat the next day. It is in both the Imperial and Rebel interests to lynch a Cybrid today, as they are the dominant foe. Why you think the Rebels will both reveal themselves and make a boneheaded bandwagon like that is beyond me.
I can kinda understand the revealing yourself as Survivor if you can win with the Cybrids. You want to make sure you don't get killed in the night, and you want to try to prove your worth to the dominant faction by lynching a "confirmed" Imperial (even though you'll never get the votes). Okay. Sure.
I'm torn on who to lynch. Tiruin doesn't look spotless, but ZU has openly cast his lot with our mutual enemy. If Tir gets lynched and flips Cybrid (or GG says he can't win with Cybrids) we might get ZU back on our side, but if Tir flips anthing else we're completely screwed (best case is a 3v3 stalemate assuming 2 Cybrids) unless the stars align for our Enforcer and Doctor, assuming we even have one of each.
We've still got....about three hours? I'm going to go home now, I'll get back on once I'm there to see what I've missed.
Post by: zombie urist on June 18, 2012, 06:54:09 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 18, 2012, 08:24:28 pm
Looks like Tiruin is up. I'll leave the vote there to stop any vote-swap stalemate foolishness (I think mine makes it 5-2). If anyone can make a convincing case as to why we should lynch ZU over Tiruin, now's the time. I'll keep checking in until day ends.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 18, 2012, 08:25:03 pm
The Survivor wincon is to survive. The Cybrid wincon is to kill or convert all human//animals. Survivors can not win with cybrids (with the exception, of course, of cybrid metagen survivors). They do not necessarily need to win with Imperials or rebels - if a day ends with two killers and a survivor, and the killers kill each other, then the survivor is left as the sole winner.
Finally, as a reminder, if a survivor gets converted, they gain the wincon of whichever team they are converted to and lose their survival wincon.
Votecount:
Tiruin (5) <- Think0028, Toaster, Urist Imiknorris, zombie urist, Hapah
zombie urist (2) <- Dariush, Tiruin
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 18, 2012, 09:11:08 pm
The Survivor wincon is to survive. The Cybrid wincon is to kill or convert all human//animals. Survivors can not win with cybrids (with the exception, of course, of cybrid metagen survivors).
Would this have been explicitly told to a survivor?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 18, 2012, 09:22:52 pm
The Cybrid win condition, for reference, is "Win Condition: Eliminate all humans//animals. In addition, wiping of defective units is required."
Note to self in future: Put wincons in OP.
Other potential wincons:
Imperial: Cybrid threat eliminated, rebels outnumbered by Imperials, and the Rebels have no kill roles.
Rebel: Cybrid threat eliminated, Imperials outnumbered by rebels, and the Imperials have no kill roles.
Metagen//Survivor: Survive (though this one, unlike the human survivor, does not conflict with the cybrid win condition)
Defective: Eliminate all other players
Sympathizer: At least one Cybrid survives to claim victory.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 18, 2012, 09:36:16 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 18, 2012, 10:41:46 pm
You run. Through the darkness, down the incline, the others by your side, you run. The sound gets closer.
You push into a larger, open cavern, each wall lines with dozens of boxes.
Boxes full of explosives.
And not a one of you knows how to use them, though the wish is on all your minds.
The sound grows closer, and Tiruin scoops up a pipe on the floor as a makeshift weapon, should whatever is behind the group catch up with them.
Urist Imiknorris blinks, seeing Tiruin with the pipe. Suddenly, his memory flashes back to the corridor. Finding the body. Tiruin arriving so quickly, despite not being with the others. The dull clang in the darkness as he came into the room.
Urist stops, sliding the pistol from his belt and pointing it hesitantly at Tiruin.
"Stop." he says. "Right there."
Tiruin freezes, and slowly turns to face him. "Really? Seriously? You're going to do this now?"
Urist frowns. "You killed him. You'll kill us too, if you can. If we're going to escape-" Tiruin springs forward as the gun fires, the muzzle flashing briefly changing the dimness of the room to a bright light, illuminating the shocked faces of the other survivors.
In a moment, Tiruin is there, pushing the gun to the side as it fires. In the next, his elbow lands solidly against Imiknorris's face, sending him sprawling, and the pistol is once more in hands. "Fine, you stupid fucking motherfuckers. I'm done toying with you fucks for now, because shit is about to get serious."
At that, the creature that's been pursuing you bursts into the room. A terrible mix between a machine and a centipede, the Cybrid crawler's bulbous head has a dozen human faces stitched to it - including those left behind. It lets out a terribly shriek as it's body, all twenty plus feet of it, is pulled into the room and it rears into the air, revealing a dozen forward pointing blade arms.
Tiruin looks at Urist, then at the others. "Well? Run, you motherfuckers. Run, and don't stop, because when I'm finished with this bitch, you motherfuckers are next. Don't think you've gotten away from me this easily."
With that, he raises his pistol, emptying the clip into the crawler. It dives at him, and Tiruin raises his pipe as he deftly evades the first two strikes of the blades. "Yes, hah! That's it, brother! Let's motherfuckin' dance!"
The rest of you scramble down the doorway, passing through a large bulkhead. Think0028 stops for a moment, struggling to work the keypad, but it's locked. He curses and runs with the others, the security well beyond him and the bulkhead doors left wide open behind them.
Eventually, the sounds of metal are left behind, only to end in the roar of a powerful explosive. A whiff of heat passes over your bodies, and then you shiver. Whatever happened, you have a feeling something is still going to be hunting you down.
Tiruin has left the game!
Spoiler: Tiruin's Roleflip (click to show/hide)
Night will last 48 hours. Since we're getting into the home stretch now, I'd like to be clear: if there is a possibility of victory, it will only be processed come morning, unless no game changing night actions remain, in which case it will be processed come end of day.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 20, 2012, 09:33:21 pm
This is around the time the mines emergency power gives out completely plunging you into utter darkness.
The emergency lighting that guided your ways through the dark tunnels before were weak, leaving long shadows and with significant gaps between them, but it was significantly better than this. Nothing is quite like the absolute blackness that occurs a mile under the earth.
Urist's flashlight clicks on, and a beam of light darts into the darkness. "Backup power generator must have blown... shouldn't have, that thing was built to last 2 months on reserve power. The Cybrid's must have found it and destroyed it, or at least cut power to this section."
Toaster can be heard ruffling through his pack, until he finally pulls out a small pencil flashlight of his own. He shines it onto the wall above. "Just a bit of darkness, though. And this areas more worked - we might still have a chance, right?"
Urist shakes his head in the darkness, unseen. "I'm afraid it's not that simple - the reserve power also keeps the air moving, and the processor, and the vents, controlling the various intake and outtake valves. With it off, the atmosphere isn't going to be livable in here for more than another hour or two, and even that's only because of the emergency point power sources."
Dariush sighs. "Is there anything we can do? Or are we dead, then?"
"Not yet," Urist responds. "I used to work here before all this, and I actually recognize this area. There's emergency suits up... that tunnel, over there, and if we keep following it, I can lead us a hangar. Not the main hangar, the cybrid's will expect us there, but a backup hangar meant for repairing damaged ships. I can't guarantee anything is there right now. I can't guarantee it will fly - this section of the mines hasn't been used in years. But I think it's our only chance."
"Well then," says zombie urist. "Let's get the hell out of here, shall we?"
Hapah seems grim though. "Of course... we can't be sure he was the only one, you know. And I don't like it wandering about in this darkness. Did you see how he moved? Any one of you could still be another one of those... things."
Zombie urist slaps him on the back. "Come on - the important thing is that we survive, and whether or not there's another glitch in the group, our chances are zero if we don't move now."
"I agree," says Imiknorris. "We can argue and probe each other on the move, if we must, and perhaps any remaining cybrids will feel the need to make their move soon, as we approach potential freedom - so stay on your guard, and don't let anything past you. Better to jump at shadows than have a shadow knife you in the back."
The group is silent for a moment, pondering this, as they set off down yet another tunnel.
It is now day. Day will end in approximately 48 hours.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 20, 2012, 10:55:53 pm
-Are Metagens valid starting cybrids, or can they only be created through conversion?
-What would happen to a Cybrid Sympathizer in the event that the cybrids are wiped out?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 20, 2012, 11:47:28 pm
Questions for the mod:They are technically valid starting roles, though balance purposes would obviously limit the ways they could be used if so. Like many of the other cybrid standards, there being a single cybrid converter at game start is only convention - many other options are possible.
-Are Metagens valid starting cybrids, or can they only be created through conversion?
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What would happen to a Cybrid Sympathizer in the event that the cybrids are wiped out?They would lose. I would assume, should they continue playing, they would act out of spite and make their prime goal the insured destruction of all other parties.... but who knows? The game would probably either be over then, or not last much longer anyway.
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 02:39:22 am
Post by: Tiruin on June 21, 2012, 05:39:15 am
I hate you all.
Especially you, Prometheus. [EXPLETIVE] you.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 07:57:08 am
I'm thinking it's mass claim time, considering there are potentially two cybrids out there. Any objections?
Hapah needs to learn how to bus better.
Dariush:
There were not enough cybrids remaining for a succesful bandwagon, and you didn't know for a fact I was Imperial. Oh wait, you did, because you are a fucking cybrid.
This doesn't jive. Assuming ZU is a cybrid, how would that make him know if you're imperial or rebel?
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 08:31:05 am
I'm thinking it's mass claim time, considering there are potentially two cybrids out there. Any objections?Two? Meaning three scum out of eleven players split into two opposing groups? Seems kinda OP to me.
This doesn't jive. Assuming ZU is a cybrid, how would that make him know if you're imperial or rebel?Actually, I used 'Imperial' in place of 'town' because he himself called me Imperial. From a Cybrid point of view it doesn't matter which kind of non-cybrid we are.
Full-claim is a damn good idea. I'll start. I'm either a persuader or a zealot. I want everyone to claim their current alignment WITHOUT claiming any conversions. If people I know I have attempted to convert claim opposite alignment to mine, we'll have a liar on our hands, because both non-convertable officers are dead.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 09:02:08 am
I am also a persuader or zealot, and I failed to convert Dariush last night... which makes sense if he's unconvertable. I'll hold my N1 target until that person claims.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 09:09:30 am
Unless he got converted, but we'll not go there just yet.
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 09:22:32 am
Toaster: I think you or Dar one is full of shit. From the OP:
-------------
Zealots and Persuaders can convert each other (if not officers). If they do, the other player becomes a Zealot/Persuader, as appropriate, rather than maintaining their original roles. (Whatever they do, they do it with full passion!) Converting a sympathizer will change his superficial alignment (how he appears on investigates) but will not change his sympathizer status or win conditions.
------------
It's worth noting that both officers are dead. Which means either A.) You didn't really try to convert him, you cybrid bastard or B.) You failed to convert him because he IS a cybrid.
Oh, and no worries about low D2 participation: RL happens. It's happened to me most of this game.
Dar: You're asking an awful lot. To catch a Cybrid in the lie you would have had to both target them, and they lose the coinflip and claim the incorrect role. More importantly, it gives you the ability to implicate anyone you choose just by saying "They got it wrong". I can't say I much care for it!
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 09:37:55 am
After looking at my result PM again, it must be a block, then. It indicates I never really had a chance to talk to him due to interruptions or people around, while I did talk with the N1 target.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 09:40:18 am
After looking at my result PM again, it must be a block, then.Yo.
I am a Rebel Saboteur+Mechanic. (Now you know why I'm the one explaining the workings of the mines in the flavor) I can roleblock, and I can try to fix broken shit we come across (which I suspect means the stuff in the hangar we're headed to).
N1 I targeted Hapah. N2, Toaster.
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 09:52:42 am
Dar: You're asking an awful lot. To catch a Cybrid in the lie you would have had to both target them, and they lose the coinflip and claim the incorrect role. More importantly, it gives you the ability to implicate anyone you choose just by saying "They got it wrong". I can't say I much care for it!Five people (I still don't count myself) alive. I attempted to convert two. 2/5 chance of catching a cybrid. Pretty good odds, don't you think? Why don't you want to claim your alignment?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 10:03:59 am
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 10:11:55 am
N1 I targeted Hapah. N2, Toaster.
Why?
Did you try to convert zombie urist last night Dariush, and if not, why not?
Let's let the others claim first.
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 10:21:39 am
And the reason I don't like it is that it gives you the ability to drop the hammer on anyone. You could say that any person gave the "wrong" answer, and then they've got a hell of a lot of suspicion to get out from under. Even if you just gave who you targeted without telling your alignment, I'd be happy: You still get to catch the same people in your trap, and I can dial back my paranoia a notch.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 10:29:42 am
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 10:36:40 am
PPE:
Dar, it's half those odds, because the Cybrid could take a shot in the dark and has a 50/50 to get it right. And even then, it's only those 20% odds if both people that you targeted are still alive (which I think they are, based on your post, but I can't be certain).Yes, both people I converted are alive right now. Now, we have 1/5 chance to perfectly identify the remaining scum, and even if he gets my alignment right, he can still slip on his story later.
And the reason I don't like it is that it gives you the ability to drop the hammer on anyone. You could say that any person gave the "wrong" answer, and then they've got a hell of a lot of suspicion to get out from under.Well, you're right. So? If I lie and we lynch town, you'll still be able to lynch me tomorrow. It's win-win for town, lose-lose for cybrids and win-lose for me. :)
Even if you just gave who you targeted without telling your alignment, I'd be happy: You still get to catch the same people in your trap, and I can dial back my paranoia a notch.Wrong. This way the trap will fail if neither of my conversion attempts caught a cybrid.
PPE2:
Hapah: At this point, half the cards are on the table. I got blocked trying to convert Dariush and I know he didn't convert me. Since I find it extremely unlikely we both started rebel or imperial, that means we each know the other is opposite human alignment. Given that we know each other and UI has claimed, that just leaves you, ZU, and Think. Claim up.Okay, fuck everything. Toaster. I did try to convert you N1. If you were indeed the opposite alignment, you would be the same as me now. I am an Imperial Officer, so I know for a fact you aren't one (i.e. opposite alignment from me and unconvertable). The only way my conversion could fail would be for you to be either Imperial or Cybrid. Since I completely agree that it's pretty much impossible for us both to be Imperials, that makes you Cybrid.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 10:43:05 am
Dariush is right on one thing, though- I'm a Rebel Persuader. I targeted UI N1, but it looks like he was already a rebel if he is a Saboteur.
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 10:48:17 am
It is worth of note how both of your claims report failure, and you claimed converting UI only after his claim. And also how there was no kill on the night you were guaranteed to be blocked.
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 10:52:34 am
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 11:09:22 am
Also, just to confirm I'm telling the truth: I attempted to convert Think N2. By now he's a guaranteed Imperial. Think, confirm this.
...Unless he's a Cybrid, of course.
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 12:28:16 pm
And see, Dar, this is exactly the sort of thing I was concerned about. Toaster says that you didn't convert him, and BAM, you try to tie him up with a bow. But I see the trap now.
First, your "everyone claim so I can call you a liar" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3391099#msg3391099) post. You leave yourself the option to say that anyone answered the wrong way. Anyone. Toaster just went above and beyond the requirements and made himself look absolutely terrible.
Second, in the same post, you misinterpret the setup. It's not three scum in a game of eleven, it's two scum and a glorified SK. You sidestep the possibility that there actually ARE two real Cybrids, because:
Third, Think is a Cybrid with you. You line up the person that answered your question "wrong", then get your "Imperial" friend to confirm.
Beautiful, Dar. Simply beautiful. By the time your target flips town, a NK evens up the score at 2-2. Your statement in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3391331#msg3391331) makes it seem like we can just lynch you if you lie, but that's patently false: It will be 2-2, and the town will be at your mercy. It all makes sense to me now.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 12:36:06 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 12:39:17 pm
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 12:40:13 pm
Also, it's awesome how you completely disregard the fact that both of Toaster's inspects were 'failed', the circumstances of his claims and how there wasn't a kill on the very night he got blocked. So yeah, turn your self-righteous zeal down a notch.
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 12:55:49 pm
I don't see a 7-2-1-1 setup being absurd, especially considering that one of the neutrals is basically both flavors of town. I believe it's really an 8-2-1, which seems rather typical. It could have been a 9-1-1 with some conversions, I suppose.
And I've learned my lesson on trying to speculate why there was no kill last night.
And self-righteous zeal? Hardly. I'm just excited!
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 12:59:25 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 01:03:12 pm
Additional Rules:
Action type order:
Invites -> Blocks -> Protects -> Investigates -> Converts -> Kills
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 01:05:18 pm
And I've learned my lesson on trying to speculate why there was no kill last night.ARE YOU A FUCKING IDIOT? Don't answer that, I know you are.
Six people alive. One was blocked. There was no kill that night. There was a kill the previous night. Do the math.
For fuck's sake, I got lynched in Supernatural 4 (IIRC) with exactly this reasoning and even less information to go by (it was the first night)!
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 01:07:02 pm
ZU: From the opening postI saw that and I'm asking about it.
Additional Rules:
Action type order:
Invites -> Blocks -> Protects -> Investigates -> Converts -> Kills
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 01:14:13 pm
Dar: Maybe, just maybe, Tir was an Enforcer who got turned? Maybe Think was an Enforcer who got turned? Maybe Think is, or was, a doctor! There are potential reasons. But hey, I'm just a fucking idiot! What the hell do I know, I'm not a classy motherfucker like you.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 01:15:18 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 01:16:57 pm
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 01:23:18 pm
Dar: Maybe, just maybe, Tir was an Enforcer who got turned?Uh, so? That would get cybrids the second kill, not prevent it altogether.
Maybe Think was an Enforcer who got turned?Same here. Second kill.
Maybe Think is, or was, a doctor!Have you heard about such a thing as Occam's Razor?
Why do you so adamantly refuse to believe Toaster is scum?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 01:25:40 pm
I need to think about this situation for a bit.
Spoiler: Thinking (click to show/hide)
More likely liar as of now: Dariush. Who did you convert N2: Hapah or Think?
Mod: Will a persuader/zealot's conversion attempt on an already coaligned player succeed or fail, as seen by the persuader/zealot? Also, there's a typo in the OP - Imperial Officers "cannot not be persuaded."
Toaster: I chose Hapah N1 because his responses to my questioning indicated that he wasn't a rebel, and that I could thus block him without a chance of shooting my team in the foot. N2 I chose you because your activity (specifically, the lack thereof) near the end of D2 seemed odd.
Dariush: Idiot has a point. Wait until Think claims before trying to figure out the NK.
Hapah: Claim.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 01:33:22 pm
Mod: Will a persuader/zealot's conversion attempt on an already coaligned player succeed or fail, as seen by the persuader/zealot? Also, there's a typo in the OP - Imperial Officers "cannot not be persuaded."Persuader/Zealots never know if the succeeded or failed. The target will only know they were targeted if they were successfully converted. Thus are the rules of the persuaders and zealots!
Also, good catch, hah. "cannot not". Immediately persuaded at game start! But yeah, thats a typo, even if it took me 5 rereads to figure out. Fixing now.
Post by: Dariush on June 21, 2012, 01:34:44 pm
Also, just to confirm I'm telling the truth: I attempted to convert Think N2. By now he's a guaranteed Imperial. Think, confirm this.Learn to read.
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 01:54:54 pm
As I've said earlier, I'm a survivor. I didn't mention, however, that I can also recognize Imp/Rebel symbols and am an Inspector.
N1 I inspected Dariush and he showed Imperial.
N2 I inspected Think and he also is Imperial.
Since inspections come before converts, I'm going to assume that Dariush didn't know Think's alignment.
Spoiler: Current Alignments (click to show/hide)
) - Imp (inspect N2, converted by Dar)Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 02:11:02 pm
Speaking of confirmation, GG: Does a Defective metagen cybrid get a kill regardless of other role?
Hapah: Because I want to know why you're not voting him if you're so sure. Also, claim.
Zombie: From the OP:
There will be
6 Imperials (or supposed rebels)
5 Rebels (or supposed rebels)
Wildcard and Cybrid players will be pulled from one or the other of these piles.
Per your flavor, are you a supposed rebel or a supposed imperial?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 02:16:33 pm
GG: Does a Defective metagen cybrid get a kill regardless of other role?No, they do not get a personal kill unless they are paired with a killing role. However, they are still a member of the cybrid team, and can use the standard cybrid night kill if uncontested.
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 02:25:43 pm
Per your flavor, are you a supposed rebel or a supposed imperial?Don't know.
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 02:34:21 pm
Dar: Humans converted to Cybrids lose their original role, right?
ZU: I got a PM about it
Toaster: Thought I did. Dar.
Claim: I'm a Snowman.
Ask any questions you want, don't think I will be able to post again until after work (~4-5 hours from now)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 02:51:27 pm
Spoiler: Analysis of possibilities (click to show/hide)
Possible plans:
Spoiler: Lynch Dariush, block Toaster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lynch zombie urist, action based on flip (click to show/hide)
Recommended plan: Lynch zombie urist.
Hapah: Make an overseer post to prove your claim.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 03:21:40 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 03:25:57 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 03:29:12 pm
Since there's really no other explanation for obolisk's death than Enforcer!Think killing him, I disagree. The cybrids couldn't have gotten him, as Tiruin had to be converted N1, unless you're suggesting multiple cybrid factions.What? You do realize that Tiruin could have started out as a cybrid? That's why after he died there was no NK.
I'm going to believe Dariush because I have a positive inspect on him. Toaster
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 03:31:13 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 03:33:07 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 03:34:25 pm
GG: Can there be more than one starting Cybrid?
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 03:37:32 pm
Night will last 48 hours. Since we're getting into the home stretch now, I'd like to be clear: if there is a possibility of victory, it will only be processed come morning, unless no game changing night actions remain, in which case it will be processed come end of day.
If Dariush is the last cybrid, he's lynched, and I convert someone in the night, Rebels win assuming Think isn't a killer (or I convert him.)
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 03:38:44 pm
GG: Can there be more than one starting Cybrid?I don't see why not. It would certainly make things more difficult to balance, though. There's no rule against it, anyway, though it would defy convention.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 03:50:24 pm
If Dariush is the last cybrid, he's lynched, and I convert someone in the night, Rebels win assuming Think isn't a killer (or I convert him.)No shit Sherlock, which is why my plan calls for you converting Think tonight. The important thing is that Dariush isn't the last cybrid. If he was, zombie wouldn't have an imperial inspect on him. Either you're the last cybrid or Dariush and zombie are the last two.
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 03:57:24 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 21, 2012, 03:58:52 pm
Lynch Dariush, block Toaster
Strengths:
-Guarantees cybrid loss
Weaknesses:
-Think is a likely enforcer
-Guarantees Imperial victory, my loss
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 04:12:04 pm
Here's the problem with your suggestion: If Dariush isn't cybrid, then you are, meaning that you can't make Think a rebel. This means that Think can (and will if he wants to win) kill a rebel tonight, and when you get lynched tomorrow, Think can kill the other rebel and win for the imperials. I'd rather avoid a victory that doesn't include me. If Think turns out not to be an enforcer, then your suggestion becomes viable. Until then, my vote's on zombie urist.
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 04:21:09 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 04:26:47 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 05:40:42 pm
Will double-post.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 05:45:13 pm
-Merry Christmas, From Hapah
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 05:47:57 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 21, 2012, 05:55:28 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 21, 2012, 06:20:12 pm
Spoiler: Possible Teams (click to show/hide)
PPE: Hah! Guess he wanted to have fun.
PPE2: He was last active yesterday an hour or two before the night ended. I'm sure he'll show up.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 06:37:24 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 06:38:19 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 21, 2012, 08:23:02 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 21, 2012, 11:32:21 pm
First of, my claim: I am an Imperial Doctor and a Pilot. The Imperial Doctor is the only game-relevant part, I anticipate that the Pilot part is for something akin to the twist in the first game. I protected Toaster the first night and Dariush the second night. I haven't gotten any messages about last night from GlyphGryph, however, so I can't confirm if anything's actually happened or not or whether I succeeded or anything. I presume a lack of response means my action went through and did nothing. That said, I DID get a message when that happened on Toaster.
Mod: Mind checking if you have any PMs waiting for me?
Until I hear back from GlyphGryph, I'd like to wait on giving more opinions.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 21, 2012, 11:53:21 pm
Can there be multiple cybrid factions? (I'm guessing no, since one of your responses entioned "the cybrid team," but better safe than sorry)
If an Enforcer tried to kill, but was converted by cybrids the same night, would the kill still occur?
If someone is successfully protected from a kill, are they made aware of such?
First of, my claim: I am an Imperial Doctor and a Pilot. The Imperial Doctor is the only game-relevant part, I anticipate that the Pilot part is for something akin to the twist in the first game.What does your PM say you can do with regard to the pilot ability?
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2012, 01:40:21 am
Post by: Dariush on June 22, 2012, 01:47:47 am
Either you're the last cybrid or Dariush and zombie are the last two.Wrong. Think would have to be the third cybrid because me and ZU gave independent imperial inspects on him, which is impossible, because the game would be over by now.
Post by: Dariush on June 22, 2012, 01:57:02 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 06:57:32 am
Can there be multiple cybrid factions? (I'm guessing no, since one of your responses entioned "the cybrid team," but better safe than sorry)Only in that the Metagens kind of count as their own faction, I suppose. I was thinking of playing with such a mechanic sometime in the future, but as for now the rules disallow two 'real' cybrid teams - simply a cybrid team with possible defectors.
If an Enforcer tried to kill, but was converted by cybrids the same night, would the kill still occur?No - he would lost his kill after being converted, and thus be no longer able to complete it, since converts happen first.
If someone is successfully protected from a kill, are they made aware of such?At the moment, I limit such knowledge to people performing the actions. So the protector and the killer would know something was up, but not the victim. This is currently how it works, anyway - I really should add some stuff to the additional rules section, and probably have a go in the discussion thread about the best way to handle it. (Note, though, that the killer would only know their kill failed, not why.)
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 08:42:55 am
Spoiler: Claim list (click to show/hide)
What can we be sure of? UI is a blocker, almost certainly; since there are no cybrid blocking roles in the OP, he's almost certainly a rebel. Hapah is a snowman.
How to resolve the incongruous claims? I believe I have a solution. Let's look at the OP a second:
The Cybrids have a standard mafia night kill they can use in place of their regular action (with the exceptions of passive or use whenever actions like the Duplicator, Goad, and Ghost). If the Hunter/Killer uses a standard night kill, it becomes a double kill (and if there's another cybrid around, they can obviously target two people.) If the cybrids attempt to kill a sympathizer, they will be offered the option of turning that sympathizer to the cybrid faction instead. However, that individual would no longer turn up as town on investigations.
Here's my theory. Dariush and Tiruin were the original cybrid team, with no converts. ZU was a cybrid sympathizer, probably still with an inspect. N1 they killed obolisk. N2 Dariush tried to kill ZU, but ended up converting him instead. Dariush, given his knowledge from ZU's inspects, tries to finger me while backing up his claim as a zealot by claiming a conversion on a known Imperial. I think his initial lack of alignment claim, while a good idea, was a bit of cover to see what crap he could fish out.
So, question to Think: Did you start Imperial or Rebel? If Imperial, did you get any notification of a conversion attempt?
On a similar note, UI: Did you get any notice of my conversion attempt N1?
Post by: Hapah on June 22, 2012, 09:15:55 am
Will try to read and post within an hour or two.
Post by: Dariush on June 22, 2012, 09:37:52 am
N2 Dariush tried to kill ZU, but ended up converting him instead.What.
WHAT.
...what. Are you even aware that what you describe doesn't fit into any set of rules even remotely connected to mafia and this game specifically?
I think his initial lack of alignment claim, while a good idea, was a bit of cover to see what crap he could fish out.THE HIPOCRISY
IT IS PALPABLE
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 10:46:32 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 10:51:00 am
Quote
Hapah: Rebel Snowman- no actions, confirms N1 block.No.
Quote
On a similar note, UI: Did you get any notice of my conversion attempt N1?You haven't been keeping up with the thread all that well. No.
Quote
ZU was a cybrid sympathizer, probably still with an inspect.Explain. Do you mean that he probably still has one now or that he probably had one to begin with?
Dariush:
Incorrect. If ZU was being truthful about his inspections, then he would have no reason to hide his results from his fellow cybrid, would he?Either you're the last cybrid or Dariush and zombie are the last two.Wrong. Think would have to be the third cybrid because me and ZU gave independent imperial inspects on him, which is impossible, because the game would be over by now.
Hapah: Why did you not use your overseer ability until today?
But wouldn't he have the cybrid factional kill?If an Enforcer tried to kill, but was converted by cybrids the same night, would the kill still occur?No - he would lost his kill after being converted, and thus be no longer able to complete it, since converts happen first.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 10:53:36 am
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 11:00:08 am
Hapah: How do you know you were blocked if you have no night action?
ZU: I got a PM about it
QuoteZU was a cybrid sympathizer, probably still with an inspect.Explain. Do you mean that he probably still has one now or that he probably had one to begin with?
I think he started with one. Whether he has one now or not is irrelevant, because any inspect he did N2 would have come before the kill/convert.
Post by: Hapah on June 22, 2012, 11:55:32 am
And Hapah. You can safely throw out any combination which doesn't involve either me or Toaster as cybrid, due to our clashing claims. Actually, you can also throw out anything that involves me as cybrid due to EXTREME amount of stuff that has to go wrong for me to be cybrid.If anyone wants to sift through my listing and eliminate options, by all means. I don't have the time to do so atm.
From the OP and Toaster's post, emphasis mine:N2 Dariush tried to kill ZU, but ended up converting him instead.What.
WHAT.
...what. Are you even aware that what you describe doesn't fit into any set of rules even remotely connected to mafia and this game specifically?
-----
The Cybrids have a standard mafia night kill they can use in place of their regular action (with the exceptions of passive or use whenever actions like the Duplicator, Goad, and Ghost). If the Hunter/Killer uses a standard night kill, it becomes a double kill (and if there's another cybrid around, they can obviously target two people.) If the cybrids attempt to kill a sympathizer, they will be offered the option of turning that sympathizer to the cybrid faction instead. However, that individual would no longer turn up as town on investigations.
-----
I'm an idiot, and even I can read. What's your excuse?
UI: I had not a damn clue how to leverage it, really, especially once the Imp Commander died. The only real way I saw to use it was to either rebuke an Imperial inspect result, or prove that I wasn't some particular role.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 01:03:24 pm
Day 3 Vote Count
Toaster(3) <- Urist Imiknorris, Zombie Urist, Dariush
Dariush(2) <- Toaster, Hapah
Not Voting: Think0028
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 01:16:32 pm
As per the request of dead chat...Dariush is voteless?
Day 3 Vote Count
Toaster(2) <- Urist Imiknorris, Zombie Urist
Dariush(2) <- Toaster, Hapah
Not Voting: Think0028
Post by: Dariush on June 22, 2012, 01:18:40 pm
As per the request of dead chat...You forgot my vote.
Day 3 Vote Count
Toaster(2) <- Urist Imiknorris, Zombie Urist
Dariush(2) <- Toaster, Hapah
Not Voting: Think0028
Ninja'd.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 01:26:28 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 01:32:41 pm
You still have your extension available, which will move day end to Monday night.
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 03:05:53 pm
With Dariush and ZU as cybrid, a mislynch on me would require UI to correctly guess which one of the two will do the kill to block- otherwise, they win come day start tomorrow.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 03:43:39 pm
Extend.
With Dariush and ZU as cybrid, a mislynch on me would require UI to correctly guess which one of the two will do the kill to block- otherwise, they win come day start tomorrow.
Stop appealing to fear. You also seem to have forgotten about Think.
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 03:58:16 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 22, 2012, 04:00:38 pm
Also, I find it ironic that I can trust Dariush to not be a cybrid, even though it pretty much guarantees he's the opposite human alignment from me.
Unless he got converted, but we'll not go there just yet.
Post by: Hapah on June 22, 2012, 05:01:32 pm
Have a good weekend everybody.
Post by: Hapah on June 22, 2012, 05:43:14 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2012, 07:56:33 pm
Mod: It's a long shot if you'll answer me, but if I was an Imperial and a Zealot targeted me, would I be aware of the attempt? I'd imagine since they're talking to me I sure as hell'd notice.
Until I hear otherwise, I have no reason to believe Dariush's claim in the slightest.
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 08:08:10 pm
Toaster: What made you change your mind about Dariush's cybrid-ness?
I had a town read on him to start with and I thought my night action failed because he was unconvertable, which fit my incorrect assumption that zealots were unconvertable. (Incorrect in several ways, mostly because I was in fact blocked). What changed my mind was when he claimed something I knew could not possibly be true and no one claimed anything that could resolve the claim- and indeed, I don't know of anything that could make a convert fail on me.
GG: Besides a block/guard, is there anything that could make a convert fail on a convertable target?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 08:56:12 pm
WHY?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 08:58:00 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 22, 2012, 09:28:11 pm
Until I hear otherwise, I have no reason to believe Dariush's claim in the slightest.Why are you choosing to believe Toaster's claim over Dariush's?
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2012, 09:35:57 pm
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2012, 09:45:40 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 22, 2012, 09:51:49 pm
Quote
Mod: It's a long shot if you'll answer me, but if I was an Imperial and a Zealot targeted me, would I be aware of the attempt? I'd imagine since they're talking to me I sure as hell'd notice.You would not. They are quite subtle. Even if you were converted, you would not know who done it.
Quote
GG: Besides a block/guard, is there anything that could make a convert fail on a convertable target?Companions specifically protect from conversions.
Day will end in roughly 72 hours. No extends remain.
Post by: Toaster on June 22, 2012, 10:03:34 pm
Toaster: Wait a minute. Are you saying that both Dariush and Tiruin have/had kills originally? If so, why weren't there two kills the first night? If not, how could Dariush kill ZU the first night? We know that Tiruin had a kill, he was a Hunter//Killer. What you're saying only makes sense if the Cybrid team has a kill as a whole that one of them executes. They don't, though, do they?
No? Let me quote it again:
The Cybrids have a standard mafia night kill they can use in place of their regular action (with the exceptions of passive or use whenever actions like the Duplicator, Goad, and Ghost). If the Hunter/Killer uses a standard night kill, it becomes a double kill (and if there's another cybrid around, they can obviously target two people.) If the cybrids attempt to kill a sympathizer, they will be offered the option of turning that sympathizer to the cybrid faction instead. However, that individual would no longer turn up as town on investigations.
I was referring to said kill.
Also, no he wasn't. Tiruin was a Hunter//Goad (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111041.msg3385077#msg3385077), which is immune to actions.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 22, 2012, 10:11:02 pm
Toaster: Wait a minute. Are you saying that both Dariush and Tiruin have/had kills originally? If so, why weren't there two kills the first night? If not, how could Dariush kill ZU the first night? We know that Tiruin had a kill, he was a Hunter//Killer. What you're saying only makes sense if the Cybrid team has a kill as a whole that one of them executes. They don't, though, do they?Tiruin was a Hunter//Goad+Metagen//Defective, and as such the only kill was the cybrid factional. Toaster claims that Dariush tried to kill zombie N2, not N1. And yes, the cybrid team do have a mafiakill.
Please explain this:
Dariush was gunning for zombie all of yesterday. Zombie claimed survivor, which would make the lynching even easier. Dariush would have every reason not to kill the effortless lynch who he had already been trying to get lynched, as leaving him alive would be tantamount to giving himself a day off. Why, then, would he try to do so?
Post by: Think0028 on June 22, 2012, 10:20:30 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 23, 2012, 12:18:22 am
After thinking about it some more, here's what I propose we do:
Lynch Dariush.
If Dariush is an Imperial Zealot:
- UI blocks Toaster
- Lynch Toaster tomorrow
- Toaster converts Think
Post by: Dariush on June 23, 2012, 04:22:00 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 23, 2012, 06:36:19 am
Because you're scum, duh.?
Otherwise, you're right and ZU is stupid.
Post by: Think0028 on June 23, 2012, 12:32:03 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 23, 2012, 12:52:10 pm
Toaster then.
Post by: Think0028 on June 23, 2012, 02:24:42 pm
Huh? What in the world are you thinking? I'm seriously confused. Do you suspect Toaster or Dariush?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 23, 2012, 02:32:21 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 23, 2012, 03:42:08 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 23, 2012, 09:58:34 pm
It has occurred to me that I missed a critical part of my role PM- that I am a Persauder Officer, and therefore unconvertable- Dariush damn well could be telling the truth.
Now I don't know what to think.
I still think it's probably MYLO- perhaps we No Lynch tonight? UI, if you block Dariush, I could convert Think and there'd be (up to) four rebels.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 23, 2012, 10:28:10 pm
That's weird. The OP has no info on the possibility of rebel officers.
Mod: Are Rebel Officers possible (apart from the rebel commander)?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 23, 2012, 11:37:07 pm
There were obviously numerous REFERENCES to the existance of rebel officers in the OP, but no actual role. So yes, there should be such a role on the list. Sorry, everyone.
Post by: Dariush on June 24, 2012, 03:28:23 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 24, 2012, 04:56:04 am
Post by: zombie urist on June 24, 2012, 11:48:20 am
Also Alaska is a pretty nice place :P
Post by: Dariush on June 24, 2012, 01:24:58 pm
Hapah's pretty much confirmed snowman, but how is Think confirmed?Uuuuuh... Because YOU've got an imperial inspect on him? o_0
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 24, 2012, 02:16:42 pm
Post by: zombie urist on June 24, 2012, 03:35:47 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 24, 2012, 03:37:19 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 25, 2012, 09:18:09 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 10:28:14 am
Post by: Dariush on June 25, 2012, 11:10:24 am
11 hours until game end. Vote count during my lunch in like one or twoNice one.
Post by: Hapah on June 25, 2012, 11:10:39 am
I'll hopefully be able to fit in a read of the weekend on my lunch break. If anyone wants to make a summary version of what's happened, I'd appreciate it.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 11:13:50 am
Mea culpa, heheh.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 25, 2012, 11:36:28 am
...Mmm, no, I still think a No-Lynch is the best idea here, though I'm suspecting ZU more and more, which would mean the inspection on Think is worthless. I'm pretty sure Dariush is really an Imperial, so I'm asking you, UI, as a fellow rebel, to not block him tonight.
You keep appealing to my rebel nature while failing to account for the fact that I'm perfectly willing to jump ship in favor of the imperials.
Datiush: Please convert me tonight. It'll confirm your claim.
Post by: Toaster on June 25, 2012, 11:53:59 am
Oh well. It's probably ZU, but I'm hoping the cybrids won't win come next day start.
Post by: Hapah on June 25, 2012, 03:27:18 pm
First things first: Did anyone notice that every other person so far has two 'roles', even if the second is just flavor? Would you like to guess what mine is?
I'm a Guard, in addition to being a Snowman.
"So what?", I hear you say. "That doesn't change anything." But it does! Read on.
UI, I can safely say that I don't much care for your plan. You'd leave me, your Rebel comrade, out in the cold! That's really not very nice. I'm glad that I am in a position to do something about it. I haven't seen a votecount, but I believe Toaster is far and away the most likely to hang. I also happen to believe at this point that he is, probably, a Cybrid. Funnily enough, he's got the right vote for the wrong reason. I want a no-lynch. I want to keep Toaster roleblocked in his little fucking box until me and Urist are BOTH part of the big happy goddamn Imperial family.
"Why the hell would we do that?", you say? I'm fortunate in that I've got leverage on at least one person. I think you want to work with me, UI. You want to work with me because so help me, if Toaster hangs, I'm going to guard Dar instead. And it's damn hard for him to convert you when he's locked in his room, isn't it? D4 will open with 2-2-1, ZU playing kingmaker.
We're brothers in binds now, UI. Either I'm winning with you or neither one of us is winning.
No lynch.
GUARD Dariush. If the no-lynch goes through, I'll PM GG and let Dar out.
Your move, UI.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 03:38:55 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 25, 2012, 03:53:36 pm
UI, I can safely say that I don't much care for your plan. You'd leave me, your Rebel comrade, out in the cold! That's really not very nice.You're a goddamn snowman, it's where you belong :P
Quote
I'm glad that I am in a position to do something about it. I haven't seen a votecount, but I believe Toaster is far and away the most likely to hang. I also happen to believe at this point that he is, probably, a Cybrid. Funnily enough, he's got the right vote for the wrong reason. I want a no-lynch. I want to keep Toaster roleblocked in his little fucking box until me and Urist are BOTH part of the big happy goddamn Imperial family.This is acceptable. No Lynch.
Quote
Your move, UI.Bishop to E5, sinking Toaster's battleship.
Mod: current votecount:
Toaster [3]: Dariush, Think0028, zombie urist
No Lynch [3]: Toaster, Hapah, Urist Imiknorris
Tie? What tie?
Post by: Toaster on June 25, 2012, 04:02:05 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 25, 2012, 04:29:40 pm
Toaster: Gets us to the same place, I guess. My guard on Dar keeps UI honest, though. If we get up to 4 votes on No Lynch I'll consider it.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 25, 2012, 04:54:43 pm
UI: It takes four hits to sink a battleship. Where are the other three, UI? WHERE ARE THEY?-Professor Plum got it in the dining room with the candlestick
-It was defending Kamchatka when I attacked it to stop him from controlling all of Asia (reducing his reinforcements from eleven armies to three).
-It landed on Boardwalk, and the rent was too high for the maintenance budget to survive (seriously, getting a room that a battleship can fit in is an expensive prospect).
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 08:20:44 pm
Toaster [3]: Dariush, Think0028, zombie urist
No Lynch [3]: Toaster, Hapah, Urist Imiknorris
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 09:06:09 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 25, 2012, 09:17:07 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 25, 2012, 09:30:21 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 25, 2012, 09:52:36 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 25, 2012, 09:53:54 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 09:54:44 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 25, 2012, 10:08:12 pm
Luck, however, is with them. They all climb into their suits, and the air is suddenly richer and less acrid, their bodies warmer, the sense of imminent death fading as the helmets seal into place. The suit-based comm systems boot into life, and a small flashlight comes to life atop each helmet.
For a little while, the group laughs and chats as Urist runs them through the safety precautions.
And then they hear it - the slow, faint rasping of metal on rock. Distant, echoing quietly through the dark hallways, from around bends and through blackness.
Toaster looks around wildly. "Guys... did anyone here that?"
Dariush nods. "Let's go?"
"Yes. Now. Stay close, and follow me." says Urist, looking back at the group. "Move."
Everyone takes off at a steady jog - slow enough to avoid winding or injuring themselves, but hopefully fast enough to get there in time.
But would it be fast enough?
Vote is tied, no one is lynched.
It is now night. Night ends in roughly 24 hours.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 26, 2012, 09:51:02 pm
Also because I'm not super keen on ending tonight, phew, exhausted from writing all that RP stuff.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 27, 2012, 10:00:00 pm
I just wrote up a three page fucking final end flavour post, only to realize I misread something and NOW I HAVE NOTHING. ARGH.
Sorry guys, I need to start over, and I don't have time tonight. :/
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 27, 2012, 10:04:59 pm
Post by: Bookthras on June 27, 2012, 10:08:04 pm
Post by: Hapah on June 27, 2012, 10:29:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 27, 2012, 11:26:09 pm
Post by: Tiruin on June 28, 2012, 05:59:13 am
GG got it in hand, don't you all worry peoples! Stupid animals//glitches...
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 28, 2012, 06:54:15 am
Post by: Toaster on June 28, 2012, 08:03:09 am
Got blocked last night.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 28, 2012, 08:07:15 am
Not sure what you're asking other than that.
Post by: Toaster on June 28, 2012, 08:22:21 am
It's probably Jim, but I'd love to hear him claim first and have Hapah explain his action end of day.
Also, UI, you're a derp for blocking me when I could have converted Think and proved my role.
Post by: Hapah on June 28, 2012, 08:52:40 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 28, 2012, 08:58:41 am
48 hours until day close, ignoring weekends
Post by: Dariush on June 28, 2012, 09:01:31 am
Post by: Hapah on June 28, 2012, 09:13:53 am
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 28, 2012, 09:31:24 am
Post by: Think0028 on June 29, 2012, 03:01:17 pm
Also, mod, when does day end? Monday in the morning or evening?
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 29, 2012, 03:06:38 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 29, 2012, 03:11:43 pm
Did Dariush do any converting? I protected him, assuming that he'd be the target next to screw the plan over. What does nothing happening mean in this context?
-scum nokilled
-Toaster tried to kill
-Dariush was targeted but protected, which you would know about.
Dariush, who did you convert.
Post by: Toaster on June 29, 2012, 08:54:19 pm
Hapah: After Think answers that question, did you unguard Dariush?
Dariush: After both of the above questions are answered, can you corroborate their answers?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 29, 2012, 09:23:59 pm
Think: Were you converted?
I can answer this one! No, he wasn't, because I blocked you.
Post by: Toaster on June 29, 2012, 09:27:30 pm
Think: Were you converted?
I can answer this one! No, he wasn't, because I blocked you.
...Derp, I brainfarted. Question time, take 2!
No one answer a question till all questions above it are answered!
Dariush: Who did you try to convert? Don't state presence or lack of block; just the target.
Target of Dariush's convert action: Were you converted?
Hapah: Did you unguard Dariush?
Dariush: Can you corroborate their answers?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 29, 2012, 09:29:03 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 30, 2012, 12:15:59 am
Post by: Dariush on June 30, 2012, 03:25:12 am
I'm pretty sure I converted someone among the alive people. And by that I mean I'm waiting for them to claim. Hint: it's one of UI, Hapah and ZU.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 30, 2012, 04:52:21 am
Post by: Hapah on June 30, 2012, 01:18:50 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2012, 06:25:32 pm
It's probably Jim, but I'd love to hear him claim first and have Hapah explain his action end of day.
I'd rather hear everyone else start talking before I do.
Because I can guarantee that at least one of you is a fakeclaiming bastard.
I'm pretty sure I converted someone among the alive people. And by that I mean I'm waiting for them to claim. Hint: it's one of UI, Hapah and ZU.
Nope.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 30, 2012, 08:00:19 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 30, 2012, 11:27:38 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on June 30, 2012, 11:42:41 pm
Post by: Dariush on July 01, 2012, 04:22:07 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 09:23:00 am
It would be funny if you were right but you're not.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 10:49:26 am
Explain why there was no kill then.WIFOM.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 11:30:15 am
You should probably think about it anyway though. It's a relevant question.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 11:43:20 am
Recommendation: Lynch Jim, give Toaster a chance to prove his claim.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 02:27:20 pm
I know this because I am a Metagen/Traitor. And an Inquisitor/Duplicator, but that's besides the point.
I asked GlyphGryph why the game wasn't over during Night 3, and he told me that if everyone's role claim was true, i.e., three non-killing Rebels, two non-killing Imperials, one Cybrid survivor, then the game would have ended the morning of Day 2.
So one of you is fakeclaiming. Who? I don't know. But someone's preventing the game from ending and it's not me.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 02:31:40 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 02:48:28 pm
If there are any other Cybrids out there, I don't know about them. I suspect there aren't any, and if there are, they don't have a kill.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 03:02:37 pm
So the imperials have a kill. Dariush pretty plainly doesn't have one (I doubt he'd be the type to hold fire three nights in a row), leaving Think the Enforcer as the only remaining option (if the cybrids are actually dead).
Think: Are you actually an Enforcer? If so, why have you not used your kill?
If yes: We no-lynch and Toaster converts you tonight.
If no: We lynch Jim and Toaster converts you tonight.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 03:42:15 pm
Point being, the Imperials having a kill isn't the only explanation.
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 01, 2012, 04:52:19 pm
It was cold. Quiet. Toaster's breath echoed in his ears as he stepped into the room, the first through the breach. Eyes cast left, then right, and- Oh gods! He let's out a shrill squeek and stumbles backwards, nearly falling. Hapah, following him into the room, steadies him with an arm as he looks over.
"Bodies - we have bodies in the room." Hapah said. "Dead ones, from the look of it."
The others funnel into the room after - Think and Hapah kneel by the bodies, checking them, while Dariush stands nearby with the party's pistol, "In case they get back up".
"Well," Think says, looking up to the others, "No pulse. Pretty sure this one's actually dead. Haven't been dead long, though."
"Same story with this one." says Hapah. "Look like they suffocated when the power went out and we lost the air filters. We're lucky we didn't get here half an hour earlier, they'd have still been alive."
"Lucky!?" exclaims Jim, shocked, formerly known as zombie urist, "Lucky? We're lucky potential allies died just before we could reach them?"
Dariush's pistol whips up to Hapah's head. "I know an Imperial when I see one, and these men are all Imperials. Why in the bloody hell is them being dead a good thing?"
Hapah stands, and glares calmly in Dariush's direction. "Because if we HAD gotten here half an hour earlier, and these men hadn't been dead, they would have needed air masks to stay alive. Air masks that they don't have, but we do. Which we need to keep ourselves alive. There would have been no time to take them all back to suit room, and we'd have been unlikely to live through anyway, which didn't even have enough suits for them. We either would have had to defend ourselves, or they would have-"
"All of you, shut the fuck up!" yelled Urist Imiknorris. "There's plenty of dead folk around, whatever, look!" He shone his flash up, and into the darkness, along the sharp black lines of the nighthawk. "I found something way more important. A way out."
Post by: Think0028 on July 01, 2012, 05:30:43 pm
So... the plan is to lynch Jim since we don't have any other leads as to what's causing the game to stall, and convert me to give the Rebels the numbers advantage and end the game. Correct? If so, Jim.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 06:33:14 pm
Why are you unwilling to consider the possibility that one of the rebels isn't actually one instead? That's an equally likely possibility for the game not being over yet.
It's even testable. I mean, goddamn. Why are you being lazy?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 06:39:58 pm
And Think, we could no-lynch and achieve the same result, except the survivor gets to win too. I'll block Dariush tonight, and if the game doesn't end tomorrow then we can lynch Jim.
Post by: Think0028 on July 01, 2012, 06:42:46 pm
PPE: Unvote, then. I find his survivor claim unlikely (he's done ballsier fake claims before), but it does seem like that's a good alternative.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 01, 2012, 06:52:23 pm
Hapah should also guard me. He can verify his Guard claim by preventing me from trying to kill him. If he successfully blocks me, then he is confirmed. If not, then he was a liar and he will be dead.
Post by: Hapah on July 01, 2012, 11:39:37 pm
So just to make sure I'm getting this right: Jim is now a confirmed Cybrid (by his own admission, of all things. Never thought I'd see the day), Toaster may or may not be a cybrid, and we're going to test Toaster's conversion claim and my guard claim tonight. Then re-evaluate tomorrow based on what we learned. Do I have the gist of it?
GUARD JIM.
No-lynch.
Alright then. Let's do this thing. Would a shorten at this point accomplish anything, or should we just ride out the last 24 hours?
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 01, 2012, 11:42:36 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 01, 2012, 11:49:56 pm
So just to make sure I'm getting this right: Jim is now a confirmed Cybrid (by his own admission, of all things. Never thought I'd see the day), Toaster may or may not be a cybrid, and we're going to test Toaster's conversion claim and my guard claim tonight. Then re-evaluate tomorrow based on what we learned. Do I have the gist of it?
Pretty much, except Toaster's a cybrid sympathizer at worst. Also, if Jim was telling the truth, could a sympathizer even win in this setup?
Post by: Hapah on July 02, 2012, 12:16:37 am
I'll try to check in tomorrow for any breaking developments.
Post by: Dariush on July 02, 2012, 02:04:26 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 02, 2012, 09:10:24 am
Post by: Toaster on July 02, 2012, 12:53:54 pm
No Lynch.
Dariush: You're forgetting that if you buy Jim's claim, it clears me. You can't have two confirmed cybrids.
Post by: Dariush on July 02, 2012, 01:34:15 pm
Dariush: You're forgetting that if you buy Jim's claim, it clears me. You can't have two confirmed cybrids.Actually, I'm not buying it. The way I see it, he's scum covering you with his claim. For beginners, having one survivor, one SK and one killing role on the side of the rebels seems extremely unbalanced to me. What would prevent ZU/Jim from claiming D1, getting Tiruin lynched and instawinning together with rebels?
Post by: Toaster on July 02, 2012, 01:38:38 pm
Jim: Do you have an inspect?
Post by: Dariush on July 02, 2012, 01:40:36 pm
Because it'd be dumb for him to cut off one method of victory as soon as the game started? Survivors don't win by attracting undue attention to themselves.Which part of the word 'INSTAWIN' did you not understand? After Tiruin is lynched, there simply won't be anybody to profit from his death due to game being over.
Post by: Toaster on July 02, 2012, 01:41:48 pm
Post by: Dariush on July 02, 2012, 01:54:16 pm
Dariush: If it was going to be an instawin, why isn't the game over now?Because Jim lied, you dumbfuck.
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 02, 2012, 02:36:54 pm
Jim: Do you have an inspect?
Yes. zombie urist duplicated Bookthras' role, so I can inspect people. He inspected Dariush and Think0028 on Nights 1 and 2 and got Imperial results on both. I derped out on Night 3 and didn't use it, mostly because I thought the game was going to end (also because I derped out).
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 03, 2012, 09:26:22 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 03, 2012, 08:43:51 pm
Not Voting: Think
One Vote to Shorten <- Dariush
Day ends, nothing happens, you get no fancy flavour this time because my computer is running out of battery power and I've got no power adapter.
"Sure, a way out." said Toaster. "Unless you've happened to have notice that." He waved towards the tons of steel that separated the hangar from the outside - doors that were normally opened by heavy machinery that was now very very dead. "We're still as trapped as we ever were."
Urist grimaced, then stood a bit straighter. "Not if I can help it. You lot, find out if the ships in working order - I'm going to see what I can do about getting those doors open."
It is now Night
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 05, 2012, 07:18:55 pm
In the ship...
"So, an Imperial pilot, huh?" said toaster, leaning against a wall of the cockpit as Think played with the controls.
"Among other things", Think responded. "I've actually been working as a medic, recently - got grounded by a medical condition - the seizures are extremely rare, and if I get any problems, a simple jab will set me right, but it's too risky for regular service."
Toaster simply shrugged. "So why did you ever join the service to begin with? I can't imagine you expected to be out here putting the boot in against dirt poor laborers with nothing but mining equipment and a few lucky find."
"I... I joined to help people. There wasn't a war on when I joined... I thought we'd be up against Prometheus again, and we'd all be fighting on the same side against those heartless machines. I thought I'd be saving people, not killing them... I got to admit, the career switch thing was a blessing in disguise on that front - I don't know how I'd live with myself if I was the one firing the bullets."
"Really?" said Toaster. "Well, there's certainly cybrids out there now... if things were different, we could have been on the same side."
Think's eyes shot up. "You... you're a rebel!?"
Toaster nodded, grinning. "I am, and if you give me just a minute, I'll tell you why I think you should be too, even with all this going down..."
Outside, by the door.
"Thanks for volunteering to help me, Dar." said Urist, nodding his head a little bit. "Can you throw that switch over there?"
"No problem", said Dariush, reaching out and giving it a flick. "Actually, before we leave, I was wondering if..."
"Sorry," said Urist, "Give me a second. Concentrating..."
"..." Dariush frowned as he worked. "What brings you out here to-"
"Aha!" exclaimed Urist."Now, can you hook up those wires over there - red wire to green port, and the yellow twisty wire into the second port from the left. And, hey! You hear that? They've got the ship working! Sounds clean too, nothing banging around... we might pull this off yet..."
"Urist..." said Dariush, doing as she was told. "Look, back there, you said you'd keep me safe, and I think-"
"And we should be good! Thank the mother, that should do it!" He grabbed a nearby crank, giving it a turn. He actually had no idea if this would work, but it was pretty easy to see where Dariush wanted to bring this conversation, and he wasn't going to let that happen. Not when they were so close. "Now let's see..."
Back at the ship
“And we’re live! Everything seems to be in working order... once the doors are open, all I’ve got to do is press this button and we’re good to go. You’ve given me a lot to think about, though, Toaster. I think I need a little, well... air is probably too strong a term for it, hah, but I think I’ll go check on how they’re doing by the door.”
“No problem, man, just think about it. I’m not asking you to come to any big decisions - no matter what happens, we’re all getting out of this together either way. Good luck, man.”
Think turned and waved a quick wave as he headed down the ramp. “Five minutes.” He certainly had a lot to think about...
“Hey!” yelled Jim Groovester, from a small hallway a short distance from the bay door. “Hey, Think! Just the man I wanted to see!”
Think turned, walking towards Jim. “What’s up, Jim?”
Jim bounced up and down excitedly. “You won’t believe what I found in here - its some sort of supply locker. Weapons, for one. First grade meds, for another. Both things we’ll probably need sooner than later. I’ve moved some key stuff into one big crate, but it’ll take two people to move it - you up for helping out?”
Think nodded, grinning to himself. “Sure. After all, survival is going to be a fight even after we get out of here...” No matter what I decide, he added silently to himself.
Jim led him into a small room that had a few crates lying around and a long shaft - an elevator, probably to move the crates to lower levels. It was currently pretty far down, and with the power out there was no way to call it up.
“Be careful of the hole.” said Jim, resting a hand on Think’s shoulder. “The floors a bit weak, and it’s quite a drop.” And then, with a quick motion, he ripped off Think’s communicator and pushed him towards the hole.
“What! What the- Holy hell!” screamed think, his voice barely carrying past the room in the thin atmosphere as the steely grip spun him around, before giving him a solid kick to the chest.
“Just move around to the other side and grab the other edge of the crate, yeah, right there.” said Jim, as Think bashed into the back wall of the room and landed, scrabbling against the grate around the gap, his legs dangling in the blackness.
“What, no! Shit!” yelled Jim, casually striding across the room before launching a boot right into Think’s face, knocking him fully into the shaft. “Think!”
Urist turned, and jogged from the room just as the sound of grinding gears and Toaster’s questions streamed into his ears.
Meanwhile...
“That’s it!” said Urist, whooping. “Let’s get back to the ship, now - we need to find out what Jim was yelling about, and then get out of here asap.”
Dariush looked crestfallen, but nodded. “Yes, we need to... by the Emperor. Urist!” she yelled, pointing to the doorway they’d all entered the hangar through.
There stood Tiruin, covered in blood and oil and patches of shiny liquid-like metal, wielding two dismembered claw arms from the giant worm. He waved one at them in a casual greeting.
“FUCKING SHIT!” yelled Urist, running for the ship, Dariush close behind. “URIST TO SHIP, LEAVE NOW. FORGET US, GO NOW.”
Dariush was about to comment on how she had no plan to be left behind, but then Tiruin started moving. Quickly. And she realized it might not be a question of being left behind, but of whether the ship still had time to escape after Tiruin dealt with the two of them. “Hell.”
“Imiknorris, I’m afraid that’s not gonna happen.” came back Toaster’s voice. “Think’s gone - and I’m not leaving without you at this point. You’re just going to have to run faster.”
The ground seemed to take forever, and up until the end it was debatable as to who was going to reach the ship first. Urist hopped on to the ramp, slamming the close button as he came into the bay, turning as Dariush dive onto the closing ramp after firing a couple rounds into the darkness. She pulled herself to her knees, flashing him a big thumbs before the sickle dug through her leg and jerked her backwards, sending her into a face plant against the hard metal floor. Her gun flew from her grip, sliding deeper into the bay as Tiruin’s face popped around the edge, his breathing mask no doubt concealing a manic grin, jamming the other blade into the gears, locking the door halfway open.
All three of them were jolted as the engines kicked in, and the ship left the ground. As Urist picked himself, his brain went into overdrive. It’s do or die, he thought. Dariush. Tiruin. Doors locked, can’t close... but... yes! Just as Tiruin finished climbing on to the ramp, Jim pulled the latch. The quick release latch for the doors, for an emergency. Though probably not this type. Rather than attempting to close, the ramp simply... let go, Tiruin losing his footing and going with it.
Dariush screamed, but her arms wrapped tightly around the bar at the edge of the hangar. She screamed again, the metal through her leg, lodged between her tibia and fibula, sinking a bit deeper under the weight. “Urist!” she screamed, “Help me! You said you’d keep me safe.”
Urist Imiknorris stood over her, the sights on the retrieved pistol aimed at Tiruin below, already climbing up the metal arm piercing her leg. “Sorry babe,” he said, the aim drifting slightly down. “But that was before I knew you were an Imperial Pig.”
“No, Urist, I-” the sound of the gunshot echoed in the small bay, nearly deafening Urist, but the two of them slid over the edge, disappearing. He sighed, the cold Martian wind swirling around him, and headed up to the cockpit.
Game End!
REBEL VICTORY!
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz49/glyphgryph/rebel.gif)
Winners:
Hapah - Rebel, Cybrid Sympathizer
Jim Groovester/ZombieUrist - Metagen Traitor, Duplicator
Urist Imiknorris - Rebel Saboteur
Think00238 - Rebel (formerly Imperial) Doctor
Toaster - Rebel Persuader, Officer
ToonyMan - Rebel Martyr
Bookthras - Rebel Commander
Losers:
Tiruin - Metagen Defective, Goad
Dariush - Imperial Zealot
obolisk - Imperial Commander
borno - Imperial Companion
Epilogue
“Fell down a hole?” yelled Urist.
“That’s what he says,” responded Toaster. “I don’t think I trust him, though - keep that gun on him. Also, I have no idea where this thing is taking us or how to fly it, BUT I got the air working.” Toaster took off his helmet, glad Urist had closed the door to the bay.
“And where the hell is Hapah?” asked Urist. The other two shrug.
Meanwhile, back in the hangar
“Heh...heheh... heheheh....” Hapah giggled to himself, counting off the seconds. All this time, and none of them had noticed. Not a one, not a single one had noticed. He’d brought it all this way, and it was so easy... no one had suspected, or tried to stop him, a single block of C4, a simply timer... hah, it was all too easy. He bent over offer a hand to help Tiruin to his feet. “I did it, oh future of humanity. I did it, you who have promised me so much. I am ready! I am ready now to be welcomed into the fold!”
As Tiruin stood, are almost stood, one of his legs too broken to bear his weight, he pulled the handle of the bent blade from Dariush’s corpse.
“No.” he said, tossing the weapon into the air before catching it by the bladed and punching it into Hapah’s throat. “You should know by know, kid.” he said, getting dragged down with him as Hapah toppled over, clutching at his throat as it bled rich blue blood. Tiruin simply let his head hit the ground. Not much point in fighting now. He was done. “You should know by know. None of us ever, ever get happy endings.”
As the sounds of a distant explosion filled his hears, Tiruin shut himself off, wiping himself from existence. “In the end... in the... in the end... end... everyone... everyone... everyone... dies...”
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 05, 2012, 07:19:31 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 05, 2012, 07:28:26 pm
Post by: Bookthras on July 05, 2012, 07:39:48 pm
Kudos to Hapah as well, who managed to remain completely undetected. Well played!
Preempting GG, who seems to be busy, here is the Deadchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/9qeUyPqHPDL3J)... we were quite talkative, and cheering for you guys from the peanut gallery all along. There is also a Rebel chat, but as you can guess, it went unused.
Great game GG, and well played by just about everyone. I'm sad I was out so soon, but you guys carried the day for an undeserved victory for Toony and I as well. Thanks!
Post by: Hapah on July 05, 2012, 07:50:57 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on July 05, 2012, 07:53:05 pm
Hapah, why didn't you claim Cybrid Sympathizer?
Post by: Toaster on July 05, 2012, 08:01:30 pm
Good game- I thought we had blown our chances the first day, but we managed to turn it around.
Post by: Bookthras on July 05, 2012, 08:06:17 pm
So the scum team were BOTH metagens with mutually exclusive wincons? What if they had both figured that and tried to NK each other?We asked GG the same, but he declined to answer. Maybe he will tomorrow. It was quite the odd setup.
I thought we had blown our chances the first day, but we managed to turn it around.Hur hur indeed. So did we. Even up to the previous night it all seemed lost for the rebellion. I still can't believe you guys managed it. Impressive.
Post by: Toaster on July 05, 2012, 08:15:53 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 05, 2012, 08:19:05 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 05, 2012, 08:31:02 pm
I like Cybrid Mafias.
Being 100% confirmed nonscum is very relaxing.
Post by: Hapah on July 05, 2012, 08:39:12 pm
Post by: Toaster on July 05, 2012, 08:40:47 pm
As said in dead chat, I had completely missed my Officer status.
Hapah: Did you not guard Jim in the night? If not and he had "killed" you, the game would have gone on another day...
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 05, 2012, 08:42:39 pm
Hapah: Did you not guard Jim in the night? If not and he had "killed" you, the game would have gone on another day...No it wouldn't have. It'd have been a 1-3-1 rebel+survivor victory.
Post by: Hapah on July 05, 2012, 08:44:38 pm
Post by: Bookthras on July 05, 2012, 08:50:45 pm
Book: Reading the deadchat, how'd you know I was a Sympathizer on post 116?
We knew there was one. I thought it was Toaster mostly due to his scumminess around the night with the cross conversions (which caused many problems that could have been avoided had he remembered Officers are immune to conversion)... once the night was over and GG posted his aborted flavour bit, Toaster was among the losers, so it wasn't him after all; a bit of inference showed that it could only be you.
Post by: Toaster on July 05, 2012, 08:53:16 pm
Hapah: Did you not guard Jim in the night? If not and he had "killed" you, the game would have gone on another day...No it wouldn't have. It'd have been a 1-3-1 rebel+survivor victory.
It'd been 1-3-2- Hapah would have been converted instead of killed.
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 05, 2012, 08:54:34 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 05, 2012, 09:03:22 pm
Cybrid Kill (I believe I explained this to Tiruin and Zombie Urist when they asked) was democratic - a contested claim for the kill (target didn't need to be specified, just someone saying they were doing the kill that night without any opposition was enough) meant that no kill would be delegated, and thus no kill would happen.
Imperial chat was equally empty, and thus I won't bother posting it.
And yes, everyone, feel free to read the ALTERNATE ENDING in the dead chat! This is what would have happened had Dariush converted Urist Imiknorris instead of Zombie Urist the night before.
(And would have gone on to had an epilogue of Tiriuin pulling onto the ship from the second blade arm embedded in the landing gear. Fade to black!)
Post by: Hapah on July 05, 2012, 09:04:50 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 05, 2012, 09:06:04 pm
Post by: Think0028 on July 05, 2012, 11:27:07 pm
Post by: Tiruin on July 05, 2012, 11:50:50 pm
So the scum team were BOTH metagens with mutually exclusive wincons? What if they had both figured that and tried to NK each other? Would have sucked for Hapah.I planned to do that in Day 2...
Then someone threw a spanner in the works.
Well, learned much from this, looking forward to the next Cybrid game!
And bah, knew UI was rebellion scum. :P
Post by: zombie urist on July 06, 2012, 12:39:51 am
I'm really sorry I had to replace out. Looking forward to cybrid 6.
Fun fact: tiruin and hapah are now in my phones autocorrect.
Post by: Tiruin on July 06, 2012, 12:48:22 am
Fun fact: tiruin and hapah are now in my phones autocorrect.None of those letters parse. They're fully different. :P
Why, though?
Post by: Dariush on July 06, 2012, 01:37:52 am
Just... what.
ZU, why the hell did you not claim D1?
GG, what the hell happened during the night? I converted UI. o_0
Post by: Tiruin on July 06, 2012, 01:40:08 am
ZU, why the hell did you not claim D1?He did. In the scumchat. :P
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 06, 2012, 06:05:07 am
GG, what the hell happened during the night? I converted UI. o_0What do you think? You will not interfere.
Post by: Bookthras on July 06, 2012, 06:06:05 am
Game End! REBEL VITRY!
SCENE: Earth. Imperial Palace. The Emperor's desk. A wrinkled hand stretches towards the communications button.
This is the Emperor. Give me a status report on the situation on Mars. .... Yes ... Oh, I see. Who?
Winners:
Hapah - Rebel, Cybrid SympathizerRebel Snowman, yes? Or how was that Overseer post made? Zombie didn't copy the Imperial Commander...
Jim Groovester/ZombieUrist - Metagen Traitor, DuplicatorFirst, thanks to Jim for stepping in and replacing at the last minute. The game could really have been derailed if you hadn't. Good sport, and good vitry!
Second, really? a survivor with a kill? and an inspection, and an ally, and a way to get more stuff? Really!?
Urist Imiknorris - Rebel SaboteurI called this D1! Even before Toony asploded me! Sure, my rotten corpse also won a month later, but the real vitry I feel from this game is that I called UI's alignment D1, and had all others right shortly thereafter, except for Toaster/Hapah; I thought Hapah was the Rebel and Toaster the Sympathiser... this is also a side effect of the Rebel Commander, unlike the Imperial one, not knowing his Officers at the start of the game. I didn't know I had any or who they were, let alone that they would forget their Officer status and its implications later on.
Think00238 - Rebel (formerly Imperial) DoctorYeah, just send me the list of casualties. I'll call their families... what? Think? My trusted First Officer was persuaded by the rebellion? No, it can't be. It must be a different "Think", 0023 or something. The Think0028 I know would never...
Toaster - Rebel Persuader, OfficerA hero to the cause, to the last. Scummy as hell, though. Mostly his own fault.
ToonyMan - Rebel Martyr...and a couple of clowns, yes? What, my long forgotten thriced removed great-great-grand nephew was one of them? Well, fuck him. What was he thinking, joining the rebellion, arming another clown with explosives, and then poking him with a stick?? What did he think would happen? Oy!
Bookthras - Rebel Commander
Losers:Who was in charge there? ... really? that bunch of losers? what the hell were you thinking!? We can't be expected to hold the colonies if the Empire fields a bunch of morons to defend them! Report to your superior immediately for discipline, dismemberment, termination and replacement!
Dariush - Imperial Zealot
obolisk - Imperial Commander
borno - Imperial Companion
Tiruin - Metagen Defective, GoadFuck it. Nuke the site from.... wait. Did you say it was the TI_RUI_IN glitch unit that was chasing them? Ah, that persistent bastard was still after them even after they killed him again and again, wasn't it? Never mind, hold the nuke order. I'm sure that thing will eliminate the problem. Then we eliminate the ship and it. Yeah. Get the pilots on it. Let's just hope they're not a bunch of morons like the last batch.
Solomon Petresun reviews the screens. So many problems, oh so many. One of these days, I'll sleep.
...from the depths of Mars, a grave opens briefly, and Tony Petresun's faint voice is heard: "... but this was FUN!"
Some additional thoughts, perhaps for another thread:
1) GG: I submit to you that "non-aligned survivors" are not a good idea. You've never used them, there's little benefit, they just confuse the issue, balance doesn't need them. Please proclaim that everyone in the game is either Imperial, Rebel, or Cybrid, no other choices. For inspection results just say "failed" instead of "unkown" when blocked or cybrid, leaving the room for the ambiguity.
Jim would have been given the opportunity to convert, but I doubt he'd have taken it.2) Dudes: I think one of the points of this game was to teach us that cybrids don't always convert! There were zero cybrid conversions here, they were never even possible, and yet everybody at some point or another, during the game and on deadchat and even after the game, were still obsessing about who the cybrids would convert and when. Cybrids are not (always) cults! That's just one aspect of several the glitches can become. Let's get wise to that. (but GG: formally removing "unaligned" roles will make that easier)
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 06, 2012, 06:11:13 am
Also, someone asked what the minor roles were for.
They were strictly for flavour purposes - in order to get the /best/ ending, ToonyMan or Borno needed to live long enough to block the worm, Tiruin and Hapah needed to be killed, Urist needed to live until the doors were open, and Think needed to make it until the end of the game.
Had Hapah not blown you guys up, you would have crashed.
Quote
1) GG: I submit to you that "non-aligned survivors" are not a good idea. You've never used them, there's little benefit, they just confuse the issue, balance doesn't need them. Please proclaim that everyone in the game is either Imperial, Rebel, or Cybrid, no other choices. For inspection results just say "failed" instead of "unkown" when blocked or cybrid, leaving the room for the ambiguity.Perhaps. Since they clearly weren't used, it was all just a big ol' red herring anyway. :P
Post by: Tiruin on July 06, 2012, 06:27:53 am
This was what I was trying to say...subtly. :PJim would have been given the opportunity to convert, but I doubt he'd have taken it.2) Dudes: I think one of the points of this game was to teach us that cybrids don't always convert! There were zero cybrid conversions here, they were never even possible, and yet everybody at some point or another, during the game and on deadchat and even after the game, were still obsessing about who the cybrids would convert and when. Cybrids are not (always) cults! That's just one aspect of several the glitches can become. Let's get wise to that. (but GG: formally removing "unaligned" roles will make that easier)
Also, beautiful flavor there Book!
Post by: Bookthras on July 06, 2012, 06:31:47 am
Tried to make that obvious with the flavour, obviously had to make it obviouser.I think some work to standardise the flavour for actions would be good. Make it always clear whether you know if you are blocked, or if your protection or conversion succeeds (or make it clear that you don't know). Ambiguity hurts the game.
Perhaps. Since they clearly weren't used, it was all just a big ol' red herring anyway. :PYeah, but I think this particular red herring hurts the game. Knowing that there are "humans, dopps and aliens" in Paranormal is good, even "aliens, zombies or demons" is good. Adding a possible fourth is less good, especially if they are unaligned, you've never used them, and they have no intrinsic faction powers/chats. I really think the game would be better if we could know for sure every one is aligned with one of the three factions (three are enough, yes? how many factions do you want in a 12 player game?)
...but as I said, perhaps this is a conversation for another thread. In the mean time, I'm happy to have had a chance to flex my flavour muscles as well, and thank you for a great and fun game, with very interesting flavour -- my favourite remains: "Well, if that's where I'm going, then you're coming with me! FOR THE REBELLION! LONG LIVE FREE MARS!" "Rebellion!? AH FUCK-"
Post by: zombie urist on July 06, 2012, 08:05:30 am
ZU, why the hell did you not claim D1?No one would have believed me. :'(
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 06, 2012, 08:08:21 am
They exist pretty much solely as cover for cybrids, and as sort of a key flavour aspect to one of the future game I'd had planned.
Anyways, it was a fun game for me, guys, felt like I really poured a lot into the flavour, so I hope you enjoyed it.
Post by: Hapah on July 06, 2012, 08:58:23 am
Post by: ToonyMan on July 06, 2012, 12:31:18 pm
Post by: Hapah on July 06, 2012, 04:07:43 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on July 06, 2012, 04:10:50 pm
Hrm. What's the deal with GG's signature?He's leaving bay 12 :'(
Post by: Hapah on July 06, 2012, 04:15:42 pm
That sucks. I hope he comes back!
Post by: ToonyMan on July 06, 2012, 05:39:53 pm
I won Cybrid 1 along with Dakarian.
Everybody lost Cybrid 2.
I won Cybrid 3 with the Imperials.
I won Cybrid 4 with the Cybrids.
I won Cybrid 5 with the Rebels.
Post by: Scelly9 on July 06, 2012, 05:45:01 pm
Post by: Tiruin on July 06, 2012, 06:22:18 pm
Aw man, I just checked his post history. :/:-\
That sucks. I hope he comes back!
:'(
Well, God Speed in whatever you do, GG!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on July 06, 2012, 07:26:09 pm
I won Cybrid 5 with the Rebels.I will claim credit for this.
Post by: Hapah on July 06, 2012, 07:34:13 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on July 06, 2012, 09:30:05 pm
Post by: Tiruin on July 07, 2012, 11:28:49 am
Clearly Bookthras is responsible for voting me into action and not Tiruin the Cybrid. (always the cybrid)Unless you're scum, I'm not. Like in that other game.
Also, I guess GG did say it all in his epilogue. About his leave, that is.
. . .
This is the last C.R.I.M. style game then?