Post by: Boksi on July 29, 2012, 07:23:14 pm
Hello everyone, and welcome to yet another attempt at an LP by yours truly :P
The game I'm going to play, Civilization 4, should be familiar to all of you, and even if you haven't actually played the game you'll no doubt have heard of it. If you want to read an excellent LP of the base game, I highly reccommend Zoolooman's LP (http://lparchive.org/Civilization-4/) in the LP Archive. But this LP is not of the base game, but a mod called Caveman2Cosmos (http://www.moddb.com/mods/caveman2cosmos), an overly ambitious mod that attempts to push the engine to the limits and stuff everything, from discovering fire to transcending the limitations of the physical universe, into one mod.
Mind you, I'm not going to be alone when playing this. I'll be depending on you all to make insane, unreasonable and plain stupid demands of me. Bonus points for having no idea what's going on and making demands anyway. Or you can make sensible ones, those are fine too. But the point is, I will listen to any request, no matter how inane, and attempt to fulfil it. I have three rules in case of mutually contradictory requests:
-Majority vote wins
-If it's a tie between doing something and not doing something, status quo wins
-Else, the senior request gets fulfilled
These are the settings that have been decided upon:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And here's a list of civilizations and leaders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We went with the Jivaro Empire, led by Charles de Gaulle.
Table of Contents:
- Update #1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3487126#msg3487126)
- Update #2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3487270#msg3487270)
- Update #3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3488693#msg3488693)
- Update #4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3488982#msg3488982)
- Update #5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3489648#msg3489648)
- Update #6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3492361#msg3492361)
- Update #7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3495291#msg3495291)
- Update #8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3495951#msg3495951)
- Update #9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3498314#msg3498314)
- Update #10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3500015#msg3500015)
- Update #11 - Killing the Celts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3505613#msg3505613)
- Update #12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3508398#msg3508398)
- Update #13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3510529#msg3510529)
- Update #14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3516110#msg3516110)
- Update #15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3522521#msg3522521)
- Update #16 - Reaching the Ancient Era (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3525606#msg3525606)
- Update #17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3535800#msg3535800)
- Update #18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3545039#msg3545039)
- Update #19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3557397#msg3557397)
- Update #20 - Pasargadae and Tarsus burn (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3585337#msg3585337)
- Update #21 - The sack of Persepolis and destruction of Persia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3654335#msg3654335)
- Update #22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3840790#msg3840790)
- Update #23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3849136#msg3849136)
- Update #24 - Kutmichevitsa is razed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg3915590#msg3915590)
- Update #25 - Madara and Pliska burn (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg4242725#msg4242725)
- Update #26 - The sack of Veliki Preslav (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg4269838#msg4269838)
- Update #27 - Tlacopan, Great Bulgar and Sofia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg4303725#msg4303725)
- Update #28 - The conquest of Szeged and destruction of the Huns (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg4397816#msg4397816)
- Update #29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114046.msg5621056#msg5621056)
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: World Leaders (click to show/hide)
Post by: Angel Of Death on July 29, 2012, 07:26:44 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on July 29, 2012, 07:31:49 pm
I say turn the speed up slightly, because that seems needlessly slow, and Always War off because that's just silly.
For a civilization, I say go with the Jivaro Peoples (one of two I had to look up), because the idea of headhunters in space is awesome.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 29, 2012, 07:41:20 pm
Show us the full list of victory conditions and explain any that aren't apparent. I'm curious.
Post by: Boksi on July 29, 2012, 08:19:54 pm
1 vote FOR Unrestricted Leaders
1 vote FOR higher Marathon speed
1 vote AGAINST Always War
1 vote FOR Jivaro Empire
1 vote FOR Aztec Empire
Also, victory conditions:
Time: Have the highest score by the end of time
Conquest: Conquer every other civ
Domination: Have at least 30% of the world's population in your city and 65% of the world within your borders; tends to ruin conquest games
Cultural: Have three cities with legendary culture
Religious: Your state religion is present in at least 80% of your cities and 75% percent of all cities worldwide, no other religions may be present in your cities and you must have built your state religion's shrine(ie Temple of Solomon for Judaism, Masjid al-Haram for Islam)
Space Race: Build a starship and fly to Alpha Centauri! This requires going well beyond the modern era in terms of technologies researched.
Diplomatic: Build the UN and become elected president of the world.
Scientific: Research some seriously advanced techs and build the Ascension Gate.
Mastery: DISABLES ALL OTHER VICTORY CONDITIONS. Although I suppose if you destroy every other civ you win by default. It's basically Time victory, but with a different method of scoring. Launching a spaceship gives you 100 points for example.
I'd like to note that most of the future tech stuff hasn't been implemented yet. There's plenty of techs that do nothing at all beyond the modern era - it's basically half-baked. It's still perfectly possible to play and the developers are currently working on implementing the colonization of Mars and Luna, which will be on separate maps. Oh, and beyond that they're also intending to implement galactic travel and colonization.
And since we will apparently be using Unrestricted Leaders, does anyone have an opinion on who our leader should be? I can tell you the traits they have, but compiling a list of every leader's traits would be exhausting, so please just ask about individuals.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 29, 2012, 08:24:23 pm
And actually examining the leaders? Hah. Our leader must be none other than Charles De Gaulle, Undying God-Emperor of the Aztec Empire.
Post by: mcclay on July 29, 2012, 08:30:42 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 29, 2012, 09:56:56 pm
It is honestly one of the major things that breaks the entire game for me.
So as a suggestion: NO America... Heck no Canada either (and I am Canadian)
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 12:06:26 am
I'll probably wait a bit longer for some more votes. Maybe an hour or so, then I'll generate the world.
Post by: Pnx on July 30, 2012, 12:53:00 am
Honestly the one thing that STILL bugs me about civilisation that I am astounded doesn't bug anyone else is how you can play some civilisations WAAAAAAY outside of their existance.It doesn't bother me much, nobody said games have to be realistic, and besides how many of today's civilizations were even around 5000 years ago? The only one I can think of is China, and China has undergone so many changes that it's difficult to even call it the same civilization.
It is honestly one of the major things that breaks the entire game for me.
So as a suggestion: NO America... Heck no Canada either (and I am Canadian)
If the game had all the empires eventually collapse, and new civilizations cropped up and were consumed by other civilizations all the time, it might be more realistic, but it would also be rather hard to play.
Also, I just thought I'd point out that it's funny that you can play as the Greeks, and the Byzantines. Also the Ottomans and the Arabian Empire. It'd be awkward if those were the only civilizations around... I vote we have a game that includes all those empires together...
Or better yet, have the German Empire, the Hunnic Empire, the Holy Roman Empire... and why not throw in the Gothic Empire as well, they were German too, right?
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 12:57:45 am
Also, supposedly the mod does allow for civs to collapse and splinter, and for barbarian cities to grow into full-fledged civilizations as well. I haven't played enough to see it happen though.
Post by: Neonivek on July 30, 2012, 01:30:57 am
Quote
besides how many of today's civilizations were even around 5000 years ago?
Some I can forgive because they represent them before they took the form we see today. Sure Britain didn't exist in 2000 BC, but there were people there.
But America cannot use that excuse... AT ALL!
Quote
We can easily have all of those be AI nations, if that's what you want
Naw its ok I am being irrational again.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 01:43:32 am
But it's no fun if all I get is rational demands :PQuoteWe can easily have all of those be AI nations, if that's what you want
Naw its ok I am being irrational again.
But of course, you're the one who decides what you want.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 02:10:30 am
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2012, 02:13:39 am
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 02:41:10 am
We're in a pretty wet location. You can see muddy, lush and peat bog terrain there, and plenty of very long grass, which is useful early on for making grass huts I guess.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
While not truly sedentary yet, this band of Homo Sapiens Sapiens must decide what area it will wander.
The game recommends that I settle a tile to the west, but I see little reason to. It'd take an additional turn and we'd lose out on access to bamboo, which gives us cheap armor. From what I can see, it might allow us to grow a bigger capital city with more food, but less production. If nobody objects to it, I'll settle where our settler is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's our tech tree. As you can see, we haven't even researched nomadic lifestyle or language. That's pretty primitive. If nobody objects to it, I'll go for nomadic lifestyle and then gathering.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2012, 02:59:09 am
Also, I vote for language. It's basically the first true step to civilization, after all.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 03:14:53 am
Nomadic Lifestyle: Enables the wanderer, the earliest kind of scout, as well as a couple of promotions. Also the Sioux culture, but I don't think we're in position to build that.
Language: Makes all cities a little happier and enables the native language civiv(yes, language is a kind of civic in this mod).
Gathering: Enables the earliest worker, the gatherer, and the earliest improvements, grain camps and gathering camps. Also reveals various grains, fruits and nuts, as well as enabling several useful early buildings representing early food sources that boost food and production.
Cave Dwelling: Enables the cave dwelling national wonder, which starts a golden age and gives a defense bonus. Might allow us to build Culture (Neanderthal), but we probably don't meet the requirements.
Weaving: Early commerce boost that reveals a couple of resources.
Scavenging: Enables more early food sources, reveals most animal resources and enables the improvement for harvesting them, and enables some early military in the form of thieves and early unique units.
Controlled Fire: Lets us catch fire as a national wonder, which gives a fire pit in each city. Fire pits give +1 culture.
Herbalism: Enables an early food source and reveals tobacco, opium and peyote.
Cooperation: Enables some great general promotions, not very useful early on by itself.
If we're going to research language, we might as well beeline to the tech after Cooperation: Oral Tradition, the first "research tech" of the game.
Post by: Neonivek on July 30, 2012, 03:26:00 am
But... wow... Nomadic Lifestyle... needs to be researched?
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2012, 03:38:17 am
Post by: Neonivek on July 30, 2012, 03:39:44 am
I stick to my vote of language. It is the foundation of just about every great and not-so-great civilization known to man, and thus it should be the foundation of our own.
I agree. Having our people be able to express the evolution we developed several forms ago would be nice.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 04:58:42 am
EDIT:
Alright, we settle our first 'city', and it's called... Mayapan? Isn't that a Mayan city? Well, I guess the head hunters didn't really build any cities.
Also, if you look at the top right corner you can see the number of turns completed and the total number of turns in the game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not a very impressive city I guess. Two things to note here: First, the unhealthiness comes mostly from our civics, which are primitive, but our leader also reduces city health by 1. Second, it takes a really long time for a city to grow early on. Again, this is because of our civics, which greatly increase the amount of food needed for cities to grow.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our explorer finds our first goody hut!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They give us a map. I guess not every tribe knows the secrets of nuclear fusion.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Later, we develop language. Wait, how did the villagers give us maps if we're this primitive? They couldn't even tell us where stuff was because we couldn't talk! Come to think of it, we can't build huts, either! Damn you, tiny tribal villages! Damn you and your technological superiority!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Choices, choices...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm having some odd problems with a few screenshots. They're coming out oddly and I can't use them. So I can't show you the completion message of Nomadic Lifestyle, but I can show you the completion message of Gathering.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, we haven't found any resources. All we have found is a problem.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're stuck on a small swampy island. And yes, I'm building a stick gatherer in Mayapan. It gives a production boost.
Anyway, I picked Cooperation as the next tech to research so we can get Oral Tradition, but you guys can veto that. Especially since a big chunk of the benefits come from the myths it unlocks, which require you to hunt, and it's damn hard to hunt on such a small island. And here I was, hoping to show off the hunting system soon.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A quick description of the new techs:
Shelter Building: Production and commerce. Very useful.
Basketry: Commerce.
Persistence Hunting: Hunting.
Tool Making: Warfare and food.
Cooking: Food.
Oral Tradition: Research
Tracking: Hunting and a bit of trade and warfare.
Trapping: Food, commerce and resources.
Hard-Hammer Percussion: Production.
Ground Stone: Food.
Prehistoric Music: Culture and happiness.
Prehistoric Dance: Culture and happiness.
Post by: RulerOfNothing on July 30, 2012, 07:10:29 am
Quote
Later, we develop language. Wait, how did the villagers give us maps if we're this primitive? They couldn't even tell us where stuff was because we couldn't talk! Come to think of it, we can't build huts, either! Damn you, tiny tribal villages! Damn you and your technological superiority!And this is why I play with No Tribal Villages (or at least one of the reasons). I guess I'll be keeping an eye on this Let's Play as well.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 30, 2012, 09:40:40 am
Post by: Bluerobin on July 30, 2012, 09:41:32 am
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 04:34:48 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 30, 2012, 04:36:16 pm
QuoteLater, we develop language. Wait, how did the villagers give us maps if we're this primitive? They couldn't even tell us where stuff was because we couldn't talk! Come to think of it, we can't build huts, either! Damn you, tiny tribal villages! Damn you and your technological superiority!And this is why I play with No Tribal Villages (or at least one of the reasons). I guess I'll be keeping an eye on this Let's Play as well.
I STRONGLY STRONGLY assume that Language represents a more formalised language.
Given that we had language before Homo Sapien Sapien.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 04:39:55 pm
It probably represents something like the communication of abstract ideas.QuoteLater, we develop language. Wait, how did the villagers give us maps if we're this primitive? They couldn't even tell us where stuff was because we couldn't talk! Come to think of it, we can't build huts, either! Damn you, tiny tribal villages! Damn you and your technological superiority!And this is why I play with No Tribal Villages (or at least one of the reasons). I guess I'll be keeping an eye on this Let's Play as well.
I STRONGLY STRONGLY assume that Language represents a more formalised language.
Given that we had language before Homo Sapien Sapien.
I haven't switched to the native language civic yet, by the way. I'd rather get a several changes done in a big revolution, preferably during a golden age but if that's impossible then our leader's trait makes anarchy last a maximum of four turns.
Post by: EuchreJack on July 30, 2012, 04:47:19 pm
There are soo many things wrong with this... but then again Civilisation games were never about logical progressions of techs in any sort of historical way.
But... wow... Nomadic Lifestyle... needs to be researched?
I agree, that was my first question when I saw that.
Since we're on a swampy island, I conclude we are in fact on the site of our history's Jamestown colony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamestown,_Virginia), and thus should develop herbalism so as to export Tobacco post-haste!
Post by: Karnewarrior on July 30, 2012, 04:57:14 pm
We should focus on expansion first. We need to get a kind of settler, then get some sort of boating ASAP. If we can get a sizable chunk of land under our belts by the time we hit the ancient era we should be good just turtling and researching the living hell out of the tech tree. If we're smarter than the AI, techwise, we can win any war.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 05:26:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here you can see the effects of realistic culture spread. It only spread over one tile because the rest is covered in forests, hills and marshes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We discover weaving, a decent commerce tech if nothing else.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And as it turns out, there's plenty of silk on this island! Also, you can see the barbarian flag to the south of the city, right? It's next to the silk tile. That's a viper, a wild animal. Time to hunt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our clubman chases down the viper. You can't see it properly, but it's submerged in that swamp to the south of the clubman.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not much of a battle, since the viper doesn't have any animations right now. Our clubman kills it and brings the spoils back home. Killing wild animals isn't as good as capturing them, though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, a volcano erupts on the coast. Nothing unusual.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No seriously. There's very few random events that can happen in the prehistoric era, so volcanoes erupt a lot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, I optimistically send our clubman out to hunt some more.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We figure out that those holes in the ground can be used as shelter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we figure out how to build our own shelters.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our clubman, meanwhile, has been having no luck. The graphics in this mod function a bit oddly. Sometimes he's holding a club, sometimes an axe. Oftentimes, crocodiles turn into knights, albeit only graphically.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But surely we can expand soon, right? To sail away from this shithole, we need raft building, and to build new 'cities', we need tribalism. Those techs can't be that far away, right?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our one advantage is that we don't need to worry about having a good military for quite some time.
Post by: Karnewarrior on July 30, 2012, 05:36:08 pm
Post by: ivanthe8th on July 30, 2012, 05:40:54 pm
This is bay12 after all...
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 05:45:48 pm
Well... Shit.Hey, at least everybody else has to do just as much research as we do.
Except they can find goody huts. And capture animals for their myths. And we're playing on monarch so they get a little boost I believe.
Anyway, I believe we're going to research oral tradition and then herbalism? And then we'll try to find ways to expand, I guess. Research techs are definitely a priority, since we won't get a lot of research bonuses from myths.
Can we use the volcano for something? (like killing our enemies?)I think it might give us geothermal power later, maybe.
This is bay12 after all...
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2012, 06:28:27 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on July 30, 2012, 07:07:21 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 30, 2012, 07:12:47 pm
At least until they start expanding, that is! We're trapped on a tiny island! Do I dare ask how long it will be until our first boat?Well... Shit.Hey, at least everybody else has to do just as much research as we do.
Post by: Boksi on July 30, 2012, 07:32:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we discover friendship.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After building the grass huts, we decide to build a cave. No, I don't know how, but we're going to build one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As it turns out, we're the second most cultured civilization in the world!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now that we have language and friendship, we start telling each other stories. Too bad we can't capture any animals to tell stories about, I bet that'd cause our research rate to skyrocket.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The volcano goes dormant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Come to think of it, it doesn't have a name. The only thing with a name is Mayapan, and that's a silly name.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We build a cave, somehow. It starts a golden age. I probably should have waited until later to build it, but whatever.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By the way, the limit is five national wonders per city, not two. Another thing changed by the mod. Anyway, this is the stuff we can build right now. Let's get some science buildings up and running.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research herbalism. Herbalism is pretty good, it significantly increases health and reveals some... interesting resources.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
These are the tech we can research right now. I set it to scavenging, but you can change that as always.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's a picture of our island again. Note the complete lack of tobacco and opium. Also peyote, but that's hardly surprising.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hmmmm. Feels like I'm forgetting something.
Oh yeah! Civics! We have two new civics we can implement, and we definitely will.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since we're in a golden age, I could switch our civics without any anarchy. It's kind of a waste to have a golden age so early, but oh well.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 30, 2012, 07:42:22 pm
We research herbalism. Herbalism is pretty good, it significantly increases health and reveals some... interesting resources.Everything about this "technology" is hilarious. I forgive the makers of this mod for all of its faults for this alone.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on July 30, 2012, 07:47:23 pm
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 30, 2012, 07:53:26 pm
I will vote that Mayapan be renamed to Mayapanponpenpun, to be referred to in passing as MP4. Mayapan is insufficiently silly.
Have some support. Also, PTW.
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 30, 2012, 07:56:34 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on July 30, 2012, 08:56:56 pm
And the isle was barren but for the silk worm, and the people wept, at least those who did not partake of the happy mushroom of giant mushy friends.
Post by: Neonivek on July 30, 2012, 08:57:27 pm
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2012, 08:58:24 pm
This game makes me wish I got Beyond the Sword with Civ 4... just so much opens up with that one expansion.This. So many awesome-looking mods require BTS that I can't stand looking for any :(
Post by: Jarod Cain on July 31, 2012, 12:01:05 am
-J-
Post by: Boksi on July 31, 2012, 12:06:53 am
Forward the butter!
We have some names now. Unfortunately our city ran afoul of the character limit, but that just makes it sillier.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We work on capturing fire and then cooking. Oddly enough, you have to build the captured fire national wonder before you've actually caught any fire.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, for some reason we are now the City State of Head Hunters. Why? Beats me. We don't even have a proper city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And now we've captured fire. Kinda.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here you can see the status of MP4. Currently our storytellers are coming up with an excuse for why we're stuck here, called a creation myth.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Later, we discover cooking. In the previous picture you saw how MP4 had slightly more unhealthiness than healthiness, right? This tech is enough to push us into healthy territory.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now that we've researched cooking without having any fire, I decide on my own to aim for Hard-Hammer Percussion. Stone tools were an important feature of the stone age, after all, and the Stone Tool Maker is the premiere building of the prehistoric era. It starts out weak, requiring a lot of hammers for little gain, but it gets a lot of boosts from various technologies. It also reveals various stone resources; something I neglected to mention before.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First we research scavenging. It reveals a bunch of resources, but unfortunately there are none of those on this island.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mt. Armok, dormant for many centuries, has begun to erupt once more.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research tool making, which allows us to build clubmen(we started with a clubman but we couldn't build them).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we research Hard-Hammer Percussion.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And wouldn't you know it, there's a source of very nice rocks right next door! It's not within our borders yet, though, but once it is we can build Culture (Neanderthal), I think. There's also a hawk over there - I'll send our clubman out to hunt it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's a bit more of the tech tree. Note that bonuses to the Stone Tool Maker are not listed on the picture, so techs like Chopping and Scraping don't appear as useful as they are. Also, Naturopathy is the first tech to found a religion - Druidism, although we have Choose Religion enabled - and we might be able to get it first.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on July 31, 2012, 03:35:42 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 31, 2012, 03:48:04 am
Civilization, and this mod by extension, are really just an abstraction so we shouldn't worry too much about it. Though I find it odd that this mod starts during the hunter-gatherer phase instead of at the Neolithic Revolution like the games normally do.
Post by: NRDL on July 31, 2012, 04:07:09 am
Post by: MonkeyHead on July 31, 2012, 04:27:15 am
Post by: Boksi on July 31, 2012, 04:31:38 am
Technically speaking there was no first religion, just a great many hunter-gatherer bands with lots of myths about the world. That said, there were probably religions before there were modern humans at all, being as some of our immediate ancestors were sapient too.A lot of this mod's decisions can be summed up as "ADD MORE STUFF". In fact, ADD MORE STUFF is pretty much the mission objective.
Civilization, and this mod by extension, are really just an abstraction so we shouldn't worry too much about it. Though I find it odd that this mod starts during the hunter-gatherer phase instead of at the Neolithic Revolution like the games normally do.
Incidentally, we'll probably found a religion eventually even if we don't go for Naturopathy early on. There's a big list and we have to choose one of them; I'll give you a complete list when I make the next update, probably. But it does include Asatru, Mormonism, Scientology and Tengriism, as well as more traditional fare.
Post by: MonkeyHead on July 31, 2012, 04:52:20 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 31, 2012, 05:19:35 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on July 31, 2012, 05:37:47 am
Post by: Iituem on July 31, 2012, 08:07:03 am
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 31, 2012, 09:15:38 am
Post by: Shades on July 31, 2012, 09:18:37 am
Post by: Pnx on July 31, 2012, 11:15:27 am
Post by: Bluerobin on July 31, 2012, 11:58:45 am
Oh, also, a vote for prioritizing getting to the point where you can discover and use water resources.
Post by: Neonivek on July 31, 2012, 01:09:11 pm
I am guessing Beyond the Sword... Anything awsome tends to be beyond the sword.
Post by: Pnx on July 31, 2012, 01:23:36 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 31, 2012, 01:23:57 pm
Yeah Beyond the Sword, it's pretty much mandatory for any modding because of how much it improves the engine.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG!
Post by: Geen on July 31, 2012, 04:14:13 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on July 31, 2012, 09:47:32 pm
Now that I'm in any hurry to see the brave people of Mayanpanpenponpu (which I guess is the name of the island too for what it matters) move on to a more advanced state. They're sitting around campfires with mouthfuls of herbs, brofisting and swapping stories about that time Ugglak knocked out a hawk with a stone and the legend of Mapunupunu, first to club a poisonous snake to death and eat it (they are the great men), all smack in the shadow of a live volcano. I'm sure this stuff is old hat to anyone who plays this mod, but it's just awesome to me.
This generational push towards building boats does an obvious question though. How the Hell did our people get to this island without remembering how to leave? Maybe a land bridge collapsed or something, but for now we get to wallow in blissful ignorance before becoming a mighty seafaring peoples. Seafaring with bamboo boats, of course.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 31, 2012, 09:56:53 pm
I am so damn glad that I got in fast enough to suggest the Jivaro peoples, because this LP is going to be hilarious once we're out of the Stone Age. It's such a pity we got stuck on a little island with no one to wage Stone Age against.Man, at least the Aztecs had a relatively long history and empire. This Jivaro don't have any recorded history at all. We could have been Sun worshipers! We could have built spaceships, filed them with slaves, and launched them into Sol for glorious sacrifice, but no, Aqizzar had to suggest we be the dispersed tribal group that never formed a unified government. Hell, we still don't have a unified government! We're going to be anarchists for the next thousand years!
Quote
This generational push towards building boats does an obvious question though. How the Hell did our people get to this island without remembering how to leave? Maybe a land bridge collapsed or something, but for now we get to wallow in blissful ignorance before becoming a mighty seafaring peoples. Seafaring with bamboo boats, of course.There appears to be another landmass within visual distance of the island. I choose to believe we all swam to Mayanpanpenponpu, being driven by the whip of Charles de Gaulle all the way.
..You know, we never did find out old Charles' traits. It....it is probably a bad sign that none of us asked for that information until now.
Post by: Aqizzar on July 31, 2012, 10:11:13 pm
...Aqizzar had to suggest we be the dispersed tribal group that never formed a unified government. Hell, we still don't have a unified government! We're going to be anarchists for the next thousand years!
..You know, we never did find out old Charles' traits. It....it is probably a bad sign that none of us asked for that information until now.
I can't be the only one who finds these two statements together to be pure gold.
Post by: Neonivek on July 31, 2012, 10:12:57 pm
For example there could have been an Ice Bridge (Which is how humans got to the Americas if I remember correctly)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 31, 2012, 10:17:19 pm
Obviously he just kills anyone who tries to defy him and calls it a government. It isn't even that far from what the real one did....Aqizzar had to suggest we be the dispersed tribal group that never formed a unified government. Hell, we still don't have a unified government! We're going to be anarchists for the next thousand years!
..You know, we never did find out old Charles' traits. It....it is probably a bad sign that none of us asked for that information until now.
I can't be the only one who finds these two statements together to be pure gold.
Post by: Aqizzar on July 31, 2012, 10:39:47 pm
Obviously he just kills anyone who tries to defy him and calls it a government. It isn't even that far from what the real one did....Aqizzar had to suggest we be the dispersed tribal group that never formed a unified government. Hell, we still don't have a unified government! We're going to be anarchists for the next thousand years!
..You know, we never did find out old Charles' traits. It....it is probably a bad sign that none of us asked for that information until now.
I can't be the only one who finds these two statements together to be pure gold.
And probably every other tribal chieftain of our historical era. Charlie is clearly a man of his times, we picked the right guy for the job.
Post by: Karlito on July 31, 2012, 10:40:48 pm
Now that I'm in any hurry to see the brave people of Mayanpanpenponpu (which I guess is the name of the island too for what it matters)
And the river as well, I suppose, since five minutes on Wikipedia taught me that the Jivaro named their tribes after the rivers they lived on. Should we name those four Mountains or are they all Mayanpanpenponpu as well?
Post by: Frumple on July 31, 2012, 10:44:17 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on July 31, 2012, 10:44:57 pm
Boy I hope I'm spelling that right.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 31, 2012, 10:45:06 pm
We are the Jivaro, living in the city of Mayanpanpenponpu, on the island of Mayanpanpenponpu, on planet Mayanpanpenponpu, in the Mayanpanpenponpu System, which is in the Mayanpanpenponpu Arm of the Mayanpanpenponpu Galaxy, in the Mayanpanpenponpu Cluster.Now that I'm in any hurry to see the brave people of Mayanpanpenponpu (which I guess is the name of the island too for what it matters)
And the river as well, I suppose, since five minutes on Wikipedia taught me that the Jivaro named their tribes after the rivers they lived on. Should we name those four Mountains or are they all Mayanpanpenponpu as well?
Post by: Karlito on July 31, 2012, 10:49:48 pm
Mayanpanpenponpu
Mayanpanpenponpu
Mayanpanpenponpu!
Post by: Aqizzar on July 31, 2012, 10:54:59 pm
I do like the idea that after all that work researching language we really only came up with one thing worth saying.
We're not just snake-eating, hut-building, mushroom-popping, volcano-dwelling, head-hunting islanders.
We're snake-eating, hut-building, mushroom-popping, volcano-dwelling, head-hunting islander Smurfs.
Post by: Boksi on July 31, 2012, 11:02:25 pm
In other news, I'm working on the next update. It'll include details of Charles de Gaulle's traits and a full list of religions.
Alright, so my research plan here is fairly simple, but expansive. First I'll research some techs that will increase the research output of the Stone Tool Maker and allow us to build the Spiked Clubman - a clubman whose club has spikes on it.Then I'll go for Tracking, which will allow us to build paths, which are the first verions of roads and allow us to connect resources to MP4. After that I'll go for Cultural Identity which allows the building of the Elder Council, which will boost our science output by about 25%. Finally, I'll research Trap Fishing, which will allow us to exploit the sea and reveals various watery resources. After that, who knows? Maybe Counting to boost our science some more.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our clubman fights the hawk we spotted while an eagle flies into view.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our clubman kills the hawk. Any guesses as to what happens next?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Did you guess "The clubman dies to the eagle and makes Boksi rage"?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I put names above the mountains. I hope this is the right order.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We find a Neanderthal! They are barbarians who will try to kill us. In light of this, our injured clubman is renamed "MonkeyHead".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You know how I mentioned how the graphics in this mod can be a little glitchy? That's the proper Neanderthal model.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Despite being weaker than the Neanderthal, MonkeyHead had a 75% terrain bonus, a 25% defense bonus in bamboo and a 25% bonus against melee units, letting him dispatch the Neanderthal handily.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We then research Soft-Hammer Percussion. It lets us build the first capital punishment building, Public Stoning, which will reduce crime a little but also cause unhappiness and unhealthiness. I'll go into more detail about crime sometime, but we don't need to worry about it right now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news, we are poor.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
MonkeyHead heads out to explore and see if he can kill other tasty animals. And lookie what he found!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First comes the viper!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
He wipes out the viper, but next comes the Neanderthal!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
RIP MonkeyHead, we didn't really care all that much about ya.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We can now make spiked clubs! Spiked Clubmen have the same base strength as Neanderthals, and a bonus versus melee units to boot!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We name our first Spiked Clubman "Geen".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We discover some more ways to use stone.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Geen heads out to explore, but then our borders pop and now the stone is within our boundaries. This increase in culture allso allows us to see corn across the sea, somehow.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Geen goes to the hill to keep watch over our rocks. We mobilize our gatherer to start gathering them. We actually received a free gatherer as soon as we researched Gathering, but we couldn't do anything with her because everything is covered in trees or very long grass and we need to research Slash And Burn to remove that. Anyway, Gatherers differ from workers in that they work slower and once they construct any improvement other than roads, they are gone.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we finish researching Scraping.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We just got a nice random event!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Especially since we can't lose any population. The event can't reduce the population of a city below 1, and the unhappiness is temporary but the health boost is not.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We figure out that stuff is much easier to kill if you chase it until it's exhausted first.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, MP4 has grown! We are now working two tiles!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some crazy guy comes over blabbering about some guy named Chris and how he died for your sins. We let him stay because he's pretty fun to watch when he holds "sermons", whatever those are, and some of his stories are cool even if we can't understand half the words he uses.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Apparently someone beelined Naturopathy. I'll bet it was Isabella. As an aside, the AI in this mod is supposedly improved over the BTS AI, and is capable of beelining techs it wants even if they're rather deep in the tech tree.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We figure out what those things on the ground are: They're tracks, made by us. And sometimes animals. And when you make lots of tracks you get a path.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our gatherer almost finished improving the stone but I cancelled her job before she finished so she wouldn't be consumed. Now she's assigned to building paths to MP4.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And with that, I think it's high time to end this update before it grows too big. But before we finish, the two things I promised.
First of all, de Gaulle's traits. He's got Protective, Politician, Populist.
Protective gives certain units like archery and gunpowder units Drill I and City Defense I for free. It also speeds up the construction of defensive buildings like walls.
Politician makes his people happier and ensures that all revolutions are unusually short. Also, state religion helps him stabilize his empire more than usual. It's basically just a weaker version of Spiritual though.
Populist is a mixed bag. All the leaders in this mod have a third trait that has downsides. Populist causes unhealthiness in cities, increases civic maintenance and reduces trade income. On the other hand it also lets you earn food from trade routes and can increase food production a bit. I honestly don't understand why it does what it does, but it does.
Spoiler: List of Religions (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pnx on August 01, 2012, 02:21:00 am
Kinda feels like you're a Greek city state early game, it's interesting.
Post by: Sirus on August 01, 2012, 02:27:19 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 01, 2012, 02:36:28 am
Post by: Boksi on August 01, 2012, 02:42:06 am
Embrace Christianity. As of right now, it's the only religion founded, and chances are it'll spread around the known world pretty fast. As such, we can get some early friends.We can't. We don't have a civic that supports a state religion. In fact, we haven't even invented religion yet. To us, he's just some funny guy ranting about Chris.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 01, 2012, 03:34:34 am
The terrain of the island actually looks quite good - I would imagine you should be able to have a small numberof cities quite densly populating that island to act as a solid industrial base before spreading to that nearby corn bearing continent.
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 01, 2012, 05:49:09 am
Then you train as many as the game allows you(12 was it?) and keep them around until the space age as a sort of permanent elder council members.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 01, 2012, 06:03:09 am
Post by: Glacies on August 01, 2012, 07:47:37 am
Post by: Svampapa on August 01, 2012, 08:19:45 am
I'm in the middle of my second attempt at installing this mod now, let's hope it works this time.
Edit:
Oh, and MonkeyHead: Please do! Civ III is best Civ. Too bad I last saw my disc three or four house moves ago. :(
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 01, 2012, 08:35:01 am
Post by: jetex1911 on August 01, 2012, 08:57:04 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 09:17:56 am
Embrace Christianity. As of right now, it's the only religion founded, and chances are it'll spread around the known world pretty fast. As such, we can get some early friends.We can't. We don't have a civic that supports a state religion. In fact, we haven't even invented religion yet. To us, he's just some funny guy ranting about Chris.
Given the SHEER amount of times this game ranted and raved about Albert Einstien and his fancy new sticks and stones he uses in World War 4... I am half-convinced this game takes place in the aftermath of WW4.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 09:28:28 am
But yeah, if religions have different effects, I would be very very curious to what they are.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 09:40:04 am
It doesn't help that they didn't even try to write the quote correctly. God that's irksome.
But yeah, if religions have different effects, I would be very very curious to what they are.
We are lucky the quote survived WW3, so give them a break.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 09:41:25 am
It doesn't help that they didn't even try to write the quote correctly. God that's irksome.
But yeah, if religions have different effects, I would be very very curious to what they are.
We are lucky the quote survived WW3, so give them a break.
AHHH I CAN'T STOP REPEATING MYSELF! I'VE BEEN CURSED BY CHRIS!
Post by: Boksi on August 01, 2012, 10:50:05 am
But yeah, if religions have different effects, I would be very very curious to what they are.Eh, I guess I'll try to give very brief summaries:
Andeanism: Religon of the Incas. Increases science and commerce.
Asatru: Religion of the Vikings. Bonus to melee units and reduces war-weariness. Has neat wonders and a neat but limited unit.
Bahá'í: Some oddball religion from Persia. Increases culture. Rather weak.
Buddhism: Vanilla Civ4 religion. Increases culture. Way better than Bahá'í.
Christianity: About some guy named Chris. Increases happiness. Already taken, probably by Isabella.
Confucianism: Increases science.
Druidic Traditions: Increase health and gives bonuses to pre-gunpowder units. Extra benefits from various crops.
Hellenism: Increases culture.
Hinduism: Increases culture.
Islam: Increases happiness. Better wonders than Christianity.
Jainism: Similar to Hinduism. Very undeveloped and bland.
Judaism: Normal buildings weaker than christian ones, but wonders are better.
Kemetism: Religion of ancient Egypt. Increases culture. Has two neat units, but you can only build one of each at a time.
Mesopotamism: Religion of ancient Mesopotamia. Bonuses to pre-gunpowder units. Wonders are freaking awesome.
Mormonism: Buildings remove access to Tobacco, Coffe, Tea and Grapes. Not very impressive.
Naghualism: Religion of the Aztecs, Mayans and other such people. Average buildings, very good wonders, especially when running slavery.
Ngaiism: Religion centered around cows. Gives bonuses to pre-gunpowder units and extra benefits from livestock.
Scientology: Increases commerce by a lot.
Shamanism: Like druidism, but with animals instead of plants.
Shinto: Increases military unit production and reduces war weariness.
Sikhism: Branch of Hinduism. Increases unit experience, but is very undeveloped.
Taoism: Increases culture.
Tengriism: Religion of the mongols. Gives bonuses to mounted units.
Voodoo: Bonuses to commerce and production. Gets "zombies", ie Entranced Workers.
Yoruba: Religion of the Yoruba people. Increases culture.
Zoroastrianism: Religion of ancient Persia. Increases happiness; wonders are pretty swell.
Note that all religions increase culture and happiness, so the ones that I note as doing that do so more than others. And this list is not very accurate, anyway. I haven't played with most of these religions so I can't attest to their effectiveness.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 11:00:37 am
Then again, the Viking one is all about kicking ass and taking names, when actual Nordic religion was mostly about crops and governance, just like every other early-world pantheon. Except for the whole Valhalla thing, so whatever.
I wonder, if they get around to improving the future stuff, whether they'll throw in some future religions, like computer worshipers or New Age-y mysticism.
So I guess everybody wants Voodoo and that does sound kinda cool, improved Workers aren't a bad thing. I'd go for Druidic or Naghualism depending on how soon we'll be able to expand, but a zombie is fine too.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 11:04:36 am
Quote
I get the feeling the Mormonism and Scientology ones were just to fuck with people
I have to agree. While I don't like either of those religions (for different reasons), this is Civilisation. I'd expect Satanism to be a legit strategic religion in the game if it was an option.
Post by: Karlito on August 01, 2012, 11:07:22 am
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 11:12:42 am
QuoteI get the feeling the Mormonism and Scientology ones were just to fuck with people
I have to agree. While I don't like either of those religions (for different reasons), this is Civilisation. I'd expect Satanism to be a legit strategic religion in the game if it was an option.
It would have to be somewhere up the tech tree after Christianity to make any sense. And let's be honest, everybody would go for Satanism, no matter how crappy its effects were.
And now I'm kinda wondering why Satanism isn't in this mod. Sure it was never a "respected" religion, but I bet you there have been more Satan worshipers in history than Mormons or Scientologists.
Post by: Boksi on August 01, 2012, 11:18:28 am
Post by: Shades on August 01, 2012, 11:26:33 am
Or is that way too much like forward thinking for a Bay12 LP? In which case the Aztec one is the most blood for the blood god like, also slaves.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 11:36:35 am
Well as we are stuck on an island we should go with something that will help us get off it sooner, maybe the tech boost ones. Of course it depends how long it is until we get the religion and how much further it is until we have boats.
Or is that way too much like forward thinking for a Bay12 LP? In which case the Aztec one is the most blood for the blood god like, also slaves.
It won't matter until we can build more cities.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 01, 2012, 01:07:10 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 01:13:24 pm
Quote from: Wikipedia
Such a Nagual is believed to use his powers for good or evil according to his personality. Specific beliefs vary, but the general concept of nagualism is pan-Mesoamerican. Nagualism is linked with pre-Columbian shamanistic practices through Preclassic Olmec depictions which are interpreted as humans transforming themselves into animals. The system is linked with the Mesomerican calendrical system, used for divination rituals. The birth date often determines if a person will be a Nagual. Mesoamerican belief in tonalism, wherein all humans have an animal counterpart to which their life force is linked, is also part of the definition of nagualism. In English the word is often translated as "transforming witch", but translations without the negative connotations of the word witch would be "transforming trickster" or "shape shifter".
For an isolated mushroom-eating people on a tropical volcanic island full of vipers, eagles, and invisible Neanderthal tribes, this sounds like a winner to me. Let's do it!
Post by: EuchreJack on August 01, 2012, 05:47:12 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 10:07:44 pm
I like how Charlie reduces hygene by being a stinky Frenchman and not bathing. :P
Which is odd given that historically NO ONE bathed (sorta). It was just a hold-over in france for a while.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 01, 2012, 10:09:22 pm
Actually, a lot of people bathed throughout history. For example, the Aztecs, Aqizzar.I like how Charlie reduces hygene by being a stinky Frenchman and not bathing. :P
Which is odd given that historically NO ONE bathed (sorta). It was just a hold-over in france for a while.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 10:12:00 pm
Actually, a lot of people bathed throughout history. For example, the Aztecs, Aqizzar.I like how Charlie reduces hygene by being a stinky Frenchman and not bathing. :P
Which is odd given that historically NO ONE bathed (sorta). It was just a hold-over in france for a while.
Sort of
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 01, 2012, 10:12:44 pm
Post by: Iituem on August 01, 2012, 10:20:57 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 10:21:30 pm
Actually, a lot of people bathed throughout history. For example, the Aztecs, Aqizzar.I like how Charlie reduces hygene by being a stinky Frenchman and not bathing. :PWhich is odd given that historically NO ONE bathed (sorta). It was just a hold-over in france for a while.
And how do you know the Jivaro didn't bathe? No recorded history, remember? Hell, they lived on rivers and named themselves after them. I'm sure everybody at least fell in once in a while.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 01, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
...For the love of Lord Xenu and all the worlds of the Galactic Confederacy, tell me we don't have to research swimming.
Post by: Pnx on August 01, 2012, 10:33:45 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 01, 2012, 10:43:29 pm
Post by: Bluerobin on August 01, 2012, 11:29:50 pm
...For the love of Lord Xenu and all the worlds of the Galactic Confederacy, tell me we don't have to research swimming.Don't have to research swimming, but we also can't swim. Well, I guess you can walk across rivers, so that probably counts as swimming.
Post by: Neonivek on August 01, 2012, 11:36:52 pm
...For the love of Lord Xenu and all the worlds of the Galactic Confederacy, tell me we don't have to research swimming.Don't have to research swimming, but we also can't swim. Well, I guess you can walk across rivers, so that probably counts as swimming.
Besides the water tiles represents QUITE a bit more then a short distances... They are sort of miles upon miles of distance.
Not something regular people can traverse.
Post by: Pnx on August 01, 2012, 11:52:25 pm
I'm not sure about the level of disease spreading that public baths caused. I've always been under the impression that the Romans were as healthy as they were in part because of the public baths.I'd say it was probably a combination of sewage systems, clean water from aqueducts, and bathing that made them healthier than most other societies of old. But they also didn't have to contend with a lot of the disease Europeans would later be exposed to.
Of course, I can't really say for sure how much disease public baths caused either.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 01, 2012, 11:55:20 pm
Besides the water tiles represents QUITE a bit more then a short distances... They are sort of miles upon miles of distance.
Not something regular people can traverse.
Multiple humans have swam across the English Channel at Dover. That's got to be a tile in Civilization terms. Clearly we just need to fortify our people to Olympian standards of distance paddling.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 12:02:33 am
Transhumanism it is, then.Besides the water tiles represents QUITE a bit more then a short distances... They are sort of miles upon miles of distance.
Not something regular people can traverse.
Multiple humans have swam across the English Channel at Dover. That's got to be a tile in Civilization terms. Clearly we just need to fortify our people to Olympian standards of distance paddling.
...Is that in this mod? I mean, if you're going to model the future....
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 12:06:29 am
Yeah, there's genetic enhancement and cybernetics and stuff like that. I'm pretty sure there's stuff like transhuman soldiers and android workers and suchlike in this mod, although I've never played in that era.Transhumanism it is, then.Besides the water tiles represents QUITE a bit more then a short distances... They are sort of miles upon miles of distance.
Not something regular people can traverse.
Multiple humans have swam across the English Channel at Dover. That's got to be a tile in Civilization terms. Clearly we just need to fortify our people to Olympian standards of distance paddling.
...Is that in this mod? I mean, if you're going to model the future....
But even if normal humans at peak physical condition can swim across the English Channel, could they do it and bring supplies to survive in the wilderness with them? Because that's what'd be required for a scout to swim across.
Come to think of it, look at those reefs on the map. I bet you could swim across that area and just stop once in a while on one of the reefs. Maybe that's the remnant of a land bridge or something.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 12:22:03 am
Come to think of it, look at those reefs on the map. I bet you could swim across that area and just stop once in a while on one of the reefs. Maybe that's the remnant of a land bridge or something.We shall name it Mayanpanpenponpu Reef.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 12:24:04 am
But even if normal humans at peak physical condition can swim across the English Channel, could they do it and bring supplies to survive in the wilderness with them? Because that's what'd be required for a scout to swim across.
Come to think of it, look at those reefs on the map. I bet you could swim across that area and just stop once in a while on one of the reefs. Maybe that's the remnant of a land bridge or something.
Supplies? Our people beat vipers to death with sticks and eat them. They live in grass huts at the foot of an active volcano. There is absolutely nothing they're going to need on the other side of the worldsea that they can't make with what they find on the ground, exactly as they do on this side.
Post by: Pnx on August 02, 2012, 12:47:29 am
Post by: Frumple on August 02, 2012, 01:21:26 am
Deciding the future would involve more rumination on how we're going to
Of course, the only actual decision to make is
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 02:00:34 am
Damn, my sleep schedule is seriously messed up right now.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 03:56:38 am
Post by: EuchreJack on August 02, 2012, 04:24:15 am
Just a note, Boksi, please go ahead and double post if you have the last one in the thread when an update is ready. Editing your last post to include the update leaves us with no notification that it happened.
Agreed.
Right, I'm gonna take a shower and grab some breakfast, then I'll get another update up.
Damn, my sleep schedule is seriously messed up right now.
How un-DeGaulle of you. The DeGaulle way of doing things is "Spit at that tub I haven't used since moving in, grab some wine and drink the bottle for breakfast." :P
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 05:25:24 am
Anyway, we start building a Village Hall, the smallest of the administration building line. It increases the maintenance costs of our city and increases crime as well, but gives a free specialist!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then we develop music.
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And dance. Now we just need to research Personal Adornment and we can invent disco!
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The gatherer finishes the first part of the path.
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We invent ritualism, the first religious tech in the game. We could change our religious civic from Irreligion to Folklore now, but I decide against it.
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Apparently we're not the second most cultured civilization in the world anymore...
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We invent cultural identity: There's us and them, and we're better than them so we should kill them and steal their stuff. By the way, the elder council will increase our science output by more than five beakers.
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The trail is finished. I switched the order of carving and skinning around because we don't have the resources to benefit from skinning.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And here we research carving.
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And here's the finished Special Stone Workshop providing us with stone. In case you're wondering why it took so long after we finished the path, it's definitely not because I misclicked like an idiot. Definitely not.
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Geen heads out to hunt and spots his first victim.
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And captures it! That's great, that is! I don't do anything with the bird yet.
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He then kills another eagle.
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And then he spots a Neanderthal! No doubt the same one that killed MonkeyHead! The coward retreats rather than face Geen, however.
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And finally...
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So the question is, what do we do with the bird? We have several options. We can use him to build the Myth of Birds, which provides +1 beaker of science. We can use him to build the Song of the Sky, which also gives a beaker of science and is a prerequisite for building the Nazca Lines. Or we can use him as a military standard, which increases the experience of most units built in the city. There's also the option of using him for a small food and production boost or a small culture boost, but those options aren't as good.
My ancestors named an entire day after bathing. Of course I'm going to bathe.Right, I'm gonna take a shower and grab some breakfast, then I'll get another update up.
Damn, my sleep schedule is seriously messed up right now.
How un-DeGaulle of you. The DeGaulle way of doing things is "Spit at that tub I haven't used since moving in, grab some wine and drink the bottle for breakfast." :P
Post by: Corai on August 02, 2012, 05:29:04 am
Post by: Iituem on August 02, 2012, 05:30:52 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 05:36:45 am
And dance. Now we just need to research Personal Adornment and we can invent disco!Fund it!
Quote
We invent cultural identity: There's us and them, and we're better than them so we should kill them and steal their stuff.Truly, we are an enlightened people.
Quote
We can use him to build the Song of the Sky, which also gives a beaker of science and is a prerequisite for building the Nazca Lines.This, definitely. We need to build the Nazca Lines so that even if we lose, we'll be able to confuse the inferior civilizations that don't die into believing we had the wisdom of aliens or something.
Post by: NRDL on August 02, 2012, 05:41:44 am
All hail the eagle god. I vote myth of the birds.
+1
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 05:46:34 am
Post by: Jarod Cain on August 02, 2012, 06:24:23 am
-J-
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 02, 2012, 06:34:35 am
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 02, 2012, 07:25:10 am
Post by: SoHowAreYou on August 02, 2012, 07:29:12 am
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 09:13:52 am
We're not really a religious people yet, we're much more animist and living-in-the-moment, so Song of the Sky makes sense anyway. Then we start covering our island in giant pictures, to beg the sky spirits for an answer to why we're stuck on this rock and a way to get off.
Y'know, these updates have me wondering about something. It's 27567 BCE. We've been at this civilization business for more than twelve thousand years, a good half-over-again the length of modern recorded history. And in that time we've learned how to communicate abstractly, tie stuff to other stuff, not be afraid of fire, and yell in harmony. I'd ask why Civilization burns through so much time in the primitive age, but this is actually a pretty close reflection of real human history. Which really makes you wonder what the heck Primitive Man was doing for dozens of thousands of years. It took a geological eon from the appearance of the frontal cortex until sedentary living, then like ten thousand years tops from sedentary living to space flight.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 09:23:45 am
The issue is that we don't know much of anything right about now, so the learning potential is low. Also, we aren't modern humans yet and won't be for about 12,500 years, so we're operating at diminished mental capacity.
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 02, 2012, 09:28:02 am
Then we start covering our island in giant pictures, to beg the sky spirits for an answer to why we're stuck on this rock and a way to get off.This a preposterous notion! The Mayapanponpenpu is all there is, was and will be. There is nothing more beyond the Sea of Twelvebays. The Sky Spirit told me so.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 02, 2012, 09:39:23 am
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 02, 2012, 09:45:15 am
Post by: Shades on August 02, 2012, 09:51:53 am
This a preposterous notion! The Mayapanponpenpu is all there is, was and will be. There is nothing more beyond the Sea of Twelvebays. The Sky Spirit told me so.
How you can you claim such a heresy when the sky spirits themselves show us it is otherwise. You only have to pilgrimage to the great Mount Armok to see other land beyond the Sea of twelve bays. In fact the home of the great sky spirits rose in a direct line towards the new world, they must be telling us to go there.
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 09:55:30 am
Holy crap, now did we just domesticate eagles? That's the awesomest thing ever.Actually domesticating them actually comes later. We just knocked him out and captured him without killing him. Unless it's a her, I guess.
Also, if we manage to find and capture a bear sometime, we can have bear cavalry. Just so you know.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 09:56:51 am
Also, if we manage to find and capture a bear sometime, we can have bear cavalry. Just so you know.This is now your Number One Priority. If it comes down to winning the game or getting bear cavalry and losing, I expect us to go out in Ursine glory.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 09:57:58 am
Then we start covering our island in giant pictures, to beg the sky spirits for an answer to why we're stuck on this rock and a way to get off.This a preposterous notion! The Mayapanponpenpu is all there is, was and will be. There is nothing more beyond the Sea of Twelvebays. The Sky Spirit told me so.
Dude, you walk to the farthest tip of Mayanpanpenponpu (get it right) where the Great Light goes at night and you can freakin' see other lands across the worldsea! All we have to do is get over there, and we'll be masters of two worlds!
Hey Boksi, when you capture an animal, are they just like a point you can use, or do you get an actual unit? If it's a unit, maybe we should have that eagle we psychically dominated take a quick looksie across the straights there.
Also, if we manage to find and capture a bear sometime, we can have bear cavalry. Just so you know.
Madness! We already have vipers, I say we start there. How big do vipers grow, anyway?
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 02, 2012, 10:00:04 am
"Sir, the Russians have overrun our captal! What are your orders sir.... sir?"
"I AM RIDING A BEAR! BLLLLEEEGGGRRREEAAARRGHHH!"
Post by: Iituem on August 02, 2012, 10:02:06 am
"Dispatch the URSINERY!"
A number of moneylenders walk out of the gate and bribe the troops.
"Not what I meant, but it'll do."
Post by: Bluerobin on August 02, 2012, 10:04:53 am
Hey Boksi, when you capture an animal, are they just like a point you can use, or do you get an actual unit? If it's a unit, maybe we should have that eagle we psychically dominated take a quick looksie across the straights there.You get an actual unit and that's a pretty good idea. I'm not sure if birds can actually fly over water, though. Also, what's the military strength of the eagle? And can animals level up/get promotions like other military units?
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 10:05:50 am
"Sir, the Zulus are at the gate!"
"Dispatch the URSINERY!"
A number of moneylenders walk out of the gate and bribe the troops.
"Not what I meant, but it'll do."
Alright, you win. Everyone can go home now.
Hey Boksi again, can we get like a complete worldmap with the updates? Or some links in the OP? Not necessary, but it'd be cool.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 10:06:48 am
Madness! We already have vipers, I say we start there. How big do vipers grow, anyway?The largest viper in Mayanpanpenponpu is the Mayanpanpenponpu Viper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitis_gabonica), which sadly only grows to 4 or five feet long and weighs 20 pounds if it has not devoured a small child recently. They aren't very aggressive, but when they do bite...
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In humans, a bite causes rapid and conspicuous swelling, intense pain, severe shock and local blistering. Other symptoms may include uncoordinated movements, defecation, urination, swelling of the tongue and eyelids, convulsions and unconsciousness. Blistering, bruising and necrosis may be extensive. There may be sudden hypotension, heart damage and dyspnoea. The blood may become incoagulable with internal bleeding that may lead to haematuria and haematemesis. Local tissue damage may require surgical excision and possibly amputation. Healing may be slow and fatalities during the recovery period are not uncommon.With our tech level, if you're bit, you die in an extremely horrific and painful fashion, no questions asked.
I am afraid we will not be able to employ them as mounts until we research genetic engineering.
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 10:08:19 am
I'm 99% sure they can't cross water, but they can cross peaks. They have a strength of 2 and cannot get any promotions as far as I know. This makes them inferior to normal recon units in most situations, really. They'll just get eaten by some other animal, whereas recon and hunting units get enormous bonuses versus animals.Hey Boksi, when you capture an animal, are they just like a point you can use, or do you get an actual unit? If it's a unit, maybe we should have that eagle we psychically dominated take a quick looksie across the straights there.You get an actual unit and that's a pretty good idea. I'm not sure if birds can actually fly over water, though. Also, what's the military strength of the eagle? And can animals level up/get promotions like other military units?
EDIT: Alright, I'm working on another update. Then I'll go update the OP as Aqizzar suggested.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 10:25:07 am
Madness! We already have vipers, I say we start there. How big do vipers grow, anyway?The largest viper in Mayanpanpenponpu is the Mayanpanpenponpu Viper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitis_gabonica), which sadly only grows to 4 or five feet long and weighs 20 pounds if it has not devoured a small child recently. They aren't very aggressive, but when they do bite... (Terror)
I am afraid we will not be able to employ them as mounts until we research genetic engineering.
Or commit to several generations of careful husbandry. Which literally is genetic engineering, just a really slow way of doing it. How fast do vipers reproduce anyway? I think it only took a few centuries to raise original wild horses from donkey-sized to big enough to pull tree stumps. I'm telling you man, we've got millennia to burn here, let's do something worth remembering.
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 02, 2012, 10:28:49 am
We should under no circumstances go there, least we unhinge the pegs and cause a calamity.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 10:40:04 am
Heretics, all of you! The bits of rock that you can see on the horizon when the air is clear are not other worlds but pegs that hold the sky and the sea together. If not for them the sky would fall off and the sea would drain over the edge.
We should under no circumstances go there, least we unhinge the pegs and cause a calamity.
Its exactly that kind of dogmatic thinking that made the road to the stone pit take three hundred generations to build. We haven't knocked over the volcano yet, how could we possibly knock over the sky pillars? Even if the worst should come to pass, I'm sure the five mighty mountains surrounding us will be sufficient to keep the sky up if it falls. It'll just be a little closer, that's all. The sea draining wouldn't be so great, but then we'd be able to walk to other lands anyway!
Where would our glorious tribe be if the guys who killed that snake and knocked out that eagle and inspired our entire cultural heritage said, nah, I don't want to rock the boat that we can't conceptualize yet by taking a few risks?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 10:41:53 am
If not for them the sky would fall off and the sea would drain over the edge.The waves would be so extreme....
Have we invented surfing yet never mind I'll figure it out later, time to unhinge those worldpegs.
Post by: Glacies on August 02, 2012, 10:53:13 am
Now one of you help me milk this viper.
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 02, 2012, 11:33:35 am
The problem is that we've become way too comfortable here. Our kids hang around in the caves and talk too much instead of doing something productive. I mean, get a job. Those sticks won't gather themselves.
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 11:45:48 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, Geen gives chase to the Neanderthal.
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And he chases...
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And in the middle of the chase we develop Bone Working.
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The Neanderthal is cornered.
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He chooses to fight rather than run further...
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And falls to Geen's spiked club. MonkeyHead's death has been avenged.
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Meanwhile, we move closer to our goals of TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION by inventing Basketry. Once we invent sports we'll be able to play Underwater Basket Weaving! No wait, that'd be Extreme Sports we'd have to research.
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We're really blazing through these techs.
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Here it is! Finally, we can actually catch fish!
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After a bit of deliberation I decide to just beeline Raft Building, since that's what people want anyway.
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As it turns out, there's plenty of fish in the sea!
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Geen takes on yet another viper. No guesses as to how that goes.
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We research Ground Stone. No, not stone that's on the ground, stone that has been ground. As in the verb grind.
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We also complete Culture (Neanderthal)! Since it's a World Wonder, we get a cool movie too!
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Not content with marrying Neanderthals, the young people of our tribe invent Natural Pigments so they can dye their eyebrows.
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There's not much going on beyond research right now. I miss the good old times. All those years Geen spent chasing that Neanderthal...
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Our borders get bigger again; now there's even fewer places for barbarians and wild animals to spawn. Also, we can't harvest that silk yet.
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We're the second bigger civilization in the game! Probably because we're so cultured.
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We continue our quest to get off this island until I decide it's time to put an end to this update.
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Alright, before I end this update, I'd like to talk a little bit about civics. Namely, Religious and Economic civics.
In regards to religion, we have Irreligion, Folklore, Prophets and Divine Cult. Note that only the first two have been researched yet.Irreligion means a lack of religion, while Folklore is basically a collection of stories with no real unifying theme or pantheon. Prophets means prophets go around being prophety and preach their religion without the government having any kind of control over it, while Divine Cult means the leader of the nation is worshipped as a god, like ancient Egypt or modern-day North Korea.
In economic matters, we have None, Barter and Slavery, if I remember correctly. None just sucks, so we'll want to upgrade from that. Barter and slavery are both pretty self-explanatory.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 02, 2012, 11:55:49 am
For civics, I say at the best opportunity we enable Folklore to reflect our great bullshitting traditions, and Slavery because we're clearly conquering and absorbing the minor population of Neanderthals on Mayanpanpenponpu.
Kinda sucks that sooner or later there won't be any room for wild animals and barbarians to spawn, but the leap from two-tile-wide culture to three is pretty massive.
Post by: Boksi on August 02, 2012, 11:59:39 am
I'm curious how it is that you can bee-line rafting while researching all these other technologies. Do you discover two things at a time or something?I'm beelining ratf building by only researching the prerequisite techs. Of which there are a lot.
For civics, I say at the best opportunity we enable Folklore to reflect our great bullshitting traditions, and Slavery because we're clearly conquering and absorbing the minor population of Neanderthals on Mayanpanpenponpu.
Kinda sucks that sooner or later there won't be any room for wild animals and barbarians to spawn, but the leap from two-tile-wide culture to three is pretty massive.
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that we haven't researched barter or slavery yet.
Post by: Frumple on August 02, 2012, 12:22:56 pm
Definitely beeline for rafts, and then maybe sailing after that. There's apparently a random event activated by some tech or another somewhere in there that can net you a free galleon, if the game I'm playing around with is anything to go by.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 02, 2012, 04:07:25 pm
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 02, 2012, 04:38:39 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 02, 2012, 06:28:31 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 02, 2012, 07:13:50 pm
Can... can we get flying monkeys? And maybe hurry up with dyes and/or tattoos once we have boats? Then we can tattoo Charles green and everyone else blue, and be closer to what we're aiming for. Islander smurfs under the oppression of the Wicked Frenchman of Ambiguous Direction.
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on August 02, 2012, 07:53:17 pm
Post by: Thexor on August 02, 2012, 09:21:09 pm
Islander smurfs under the oppression of the Wicked Frenchman of Ambiguous Direction.
I strongly doubt this is possible... but on the faint hope it is, PTW. :D
Post by: Neonivek on August 02, 2012, 10:22:25 pm
PTW. Just got Civ IV + Warlords expansion, and cannot believe I didn't play this game earlier.
and you still cant...
BEYOND THE SWORD! Honestly it makes almost all the other expansions moot.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on August 02, 2012, 11:33:52 pm
Post by: Jarod Cain on August 02, 2012, 11:37:36 pm
-J-
Post by: Sirus on August 03, 2012, 12:27:42 am
Quote
I just thought I'd come in and whisper that the Civ IV collection is $9.99 on Steam.That's a dirty rotten lie, Jarod :(
It's $29.99 for the complete collection. Beyond the Sword by itself is $9.99, but that only works if you have the Steam version of Civ IV installed rather than the disk version.
Post by: NRDL on August 03, 2012, 12:41:24 am
Post by: Jarod Cain on August 03, 2012, 12:42:08 am
That's a dirty rotten lie, Jarod :(Really? :|
I must have looked at the wrong box then when I looked up Civ IV this morning. >_>
-J-
Post by: Jacob/Lee on August 03, 2012, 12:42:51 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 03, 2012, 01:06:01 am
Apperantly ONLY I get this issue and I cannot get rid of it because there is no option anywhere... AHHH!
Post by: Boksi on August 03, 2012, 09:17:06 am
Folklore: 1
Divine Cult: 1
Slavery: 2
Beeline Raft Building: 1
Gonna get at least one update up today. Gotta work through as much as I can while I'm still on vacation, you know?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 03, 2012, 09:20:17 am
Post by: Karlito on August 03, 2012, 09:21:15 am
Folklore: 1
Slavery: 2
Beeline Raft Building: 1
Yes, all of these things. Do them.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 03, 2012, 09:31:32 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 03, 2012, 10:01:16 am
Post by: Shades on August 03, 2012, 10:05:46 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 03, 2012, 11:55:52 am
Post by: Frumple on August 03, 2012, 12:08:50 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 03, 2012, 12:37:44 pm
The community is devastaded by a powerful hurricane. Certain elements of Jivaro society proclaim that this is the punishment of the sky spirits for the corruption and immorality of our youth.
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A large amount of housing is damaged. As it turns out, grass huts are not very resistant to hurricane-force winds.
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We figure out how to make some primitive ropes.
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Geen kills yet another viper.
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And then Sikhism is founded. There's no funny old guy arriving to tell us stories this time, though.
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The next religion-founding tech after Naturopathy is Shamanism, I believe. Have a look at the tech tree.
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Our youth continues its eternal descent into immorality and depravity. Kids these days...
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Our woodworking skills increase as we approach the Rafture. The Rafture is one of my favorite stories about Chris.
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Somebody has built the first wonder of the world, the Lascaux Paints!
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Whatever. We develop more woodworking - this time, we learn Bark Working.
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Now we can build bark huts as well as grass huts. However, bark huts actually replace grass huts but have the same stats, so we don't really benefit.
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More technology...
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More phlebotomy...
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Thanks to our recent advances in woodworking and rope-making, we can now combine sticks and stones into one mighty weapon!
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Geen gets a new toy. Stone Axemen are almost identical to Spiked Clubmen, but they get a 50% bonus vs. melee units instead of 25%.
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Despite both this and a slow buildup of Neanderthal Warriors, we are not very powerful by international standards.
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We develop some more woodworking.
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Turns out there's some nice timber to our south.
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We're almost there! With Carpentry researched, all that's left is to research Raft Building itself!
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Oh no! A barbarian Neanderthal!
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Geen handles him, no problem.
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In anticipation of our crossing, we build our first scout! We name him Jacob Lee because the game doesn't accept slashes in names.
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And then, after all our hard work, sweat and tears, we reach it. Rafture.
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...So where to next?
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Also, IIRC, Fixed Borders do not freeze your borders in place, they just let you send soldiers to places not inside your borders and say "this is my land now" and claim it.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 03, 2012, 02:37:39 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 03, 2012, 02:49:17 pm
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 03, 2012, 03:04:14 pm
Oh, go for Shamanism because it looks like there are some ways to use vipers in there (assuming the snake pit is one of them) and having a religion could be useful.Since I have absolutely no idea of what these tech are doing (I have Civ4, but not BTS nor C2C), I'll go with this because snake pits sounds funny.
Post by: Boksi on August 03, 2012, 03:09:42 pm
Oh, go for Shamanism because it looks like there are some ways to use vipers in there (assuming the snake pit is one of them) and having a religion could be useful.We can do that, sure. Mind you, we need to capture a viper first. And we can't use it to found a religion because somebody else has already researched it and founded Sikhism. Come to think of it, I ought to do a quick writeup of the techs:
Canine Domestication: Lets us train wardogs and start herding animals.
Games: Prerequisite tech that does nothing.
Petroglyphs: Cave paintings.
Counting: Learn basic counting, improves research.
Microlith: Provides a national wonder that boosts military unit production.
Flint Knapping: Revelas several types of stone, building improves military unit production.
Heat Treatment: Prerequisite tech, with one unique unit we can't build.
Tattoos: If we had dye, tattoos would slightly improve our units' strength.
Stone Building: Basic stone huts.
Spear Making: Take a guess.
Sewing: We don't have any kind of cloth though.
Bead Making: Pretty baubles.
Portable Shelters: Benefits from horses or bison.
Spearfishing: Slightly more food.
Warfare: Learn to fight before you can read.
Tanning: We don't have leather, but we do have bamboo! Bamboo armorers require a city population of 6 but give a promotion that gives a +20% bonus against archery units.
Barter: Reveals resources like amber, silver and gold. Improves economy and enables barter economic civic.
Atlatl Making: Enables best prehistoric ranged unit.
Fire making: Increases health and lets us build fire pits. Also obsoletes the stick gatherer.
Hunting Tactics: Lets us build the hunter, an upgrade of the tracker. We can build neither though, because we haven't captured enough animals.
Slavery: Enables the slavery civic, plus fighting pits and crucifixion crosses.
Obsidian Weapons: Enables several unique units.
Arithmetic: Enables two crime-reduction buildings:
Shamanism: First to discover founds a religion. Somebody else has gotten to it first.
Earth Oven: Boosts food.
Tribalism: Lets us settle new cities. Also enables the tribal society civic.
Pictographs: Prerequisite tech.
Ceremonial Burial: Doesn't actually enable that much, you need other techs like masonry to build most of those buildings.
Boat Building: Lets us build canoes.
Chiefdom: A better government civic, a building that increases unit experience, and more uses for captured animals.
Animal Husbandry: Various buildings that require animals.
Mysticism: A couple of myths and reveals incense. Enables divine cult.
Mind you, this is all by memory, since I don't have the game open right now.
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 03, 2012, 03:16:08 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 03, 2012, 03:20:36 pm
Anyway. Vague waving toward "tribalism before picking up gift island-whatsits, if that's what we need to get free cities."
Post by: Boksi on August 03, 2012, 03:38:36 pm
Ah, definitely have tribalism before your raft(s) starts picking up those... island things. If they're in this game, and you actually need the tech before it'll gift you them. Game I'm running with small islands I got five, six tribes from those damn island-things. Got cities latched onto whatever landmass they're nearest simply because th'rafts can't carry more than one tribe >__<Were you playing on Settler difficulty? You don't get free tribes on higher difficulties, I think, but when I played my first game on Settler by accident I got two tribes from huts.
Anyway. Vague waving toward "tribalism before picking up gift island-whatsits, if that's what we need to get free cities."
Post by: Aqizzar on August 03, 2012, 03:46:07 pm
Tribalism is probably the best, since we want to found new cities sooner rather than later, even if they stay on our island.
And can I request that the first raft be named for the fellow who's been going c'mon guys lets get across the water the whole damn time? Me and my mighty banded-log-with-paddle ain't afraid of no hurricanes. I honor the sky spirits as brothers to we the obviously awesome ground spirits, not as lords, and there's land over there I'm telling you guys I can see it.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 03, 2012, 04:09:05 pm
I still support draining the Mayapanponpenpu Sea and just walking across, but if you really want to use the silly rafts...
Post by: Neonivek on August 03, 2012, 04:42:14 pm
Anyhow we REALLY are in here for the long haul.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 03, 2012, 05:46:33 pm
I think Tribalism should have a relatively high priority, but barter and canine domestication could be good too. Also flint knapping could be good so we have a better idea of where to put our next city.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on August 03, 2012, 06:53:26 pm
Tribalism is definitely most important.No, no, if anything, we should walk across the sea like that guy Chris could from the stories.
I still support draining the Mayapanponpenpu Sea and just walking across, but if you really want to use the silly rafts...
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 03, 2012, 06:56:06 pm
No, no, if anything, we should walk across the sea like that guy Chris could from the stories.He probably just tied some fish to his feet.
Post by: Furtuka on August 03, 2012, 09:27:03 pm
Post by: NRDL on August 04, 2012, 12:40:27 am
I say bartering. We'll need gold to fuel galactic conquest.
+1
Post by: Corai on August 04, 2012, 12:53:10 am
I say bartering. We'll need gold to fuel galactic conquest.
+1
+2
Post by: Boksi on August 04, 2012, 02:19:03 am
Post by: Boksi on August 04, 2012, 04:03:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We tie a couple of big sticks together and it floats! Hooray!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The raft sails due north with Jacob Lee onboard. There's a lot more animals over there! Nice!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Back home we do some more research. We figure out how to use fire and wood together in was other than setting fire to the wood. Certain elements of Jivaro society are scandalized by this new method of "Heat Treatment", calling it an abberration and perversion of the holy fire. Then somebody mentions that we haven't build the Captured Fire national wonder or researched Fire Making and everything gets all awkward.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do your best, Jacob Lee!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I decide that it's probaby best to not put every single use of a captured animal to a vote.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're sending out as many rafts as we can. Each one is loaded with a Neanderthal Warrior, since we have a bunch of those and they'll do pretty alright against most animals, especially since we've built the Hunting Instruction building, which gives them all the Hunter I promotion.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Jacob Lee keeps fighting the wildlife. You can see another feature added by this mod: Random free promotions after battles. There's a complex formula which determines the probabilities of promotion, but it's essentially random.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oops.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You shall be avenged, Jacob Lee!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, look at that! Seems like we've found another civilization!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, we keep finding more and more nice stuff.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lee Jacob avenges Jacob Lee. He tears the hawk's feathers off and uses them as decoration, sparking the newest fashion fad.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, another Neanderthal Warrior heads out and subdues a bison! Soon after it's brought back to the capital, it splits into several smaller bison. Soon we've got a whole herd of them! They don't seem to mind the rain and the mud.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The brave Neanderthal then fights off several other animals.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since it seems to work well for him, we decide to invest in some spears as well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Imagine if we could have been getting these myths earlier! We'd have a lot more techs then.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We make contact with the Celts! Since we're both minor civilizations, we are automatically at war with each other.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our intelligence agency leaps into action. Finally they have a target to spy on! As it turns out, the Celts are led by a man named Abraham Lincoln.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, Frumple mentioned islands. This is what he was talking about.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some of these promotions you might not recognize! The upper row is promotions specializing in various terrains - for example, our home island is entirely wetland except for the mountains. There's also the "Barbarian Hunter" and "Animal Hunter" promotions, which allow units to continue gaining experience for fighting those even after the usual cap.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We scout the Celts. No wonder they have more people than us!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More myths...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A target of opportunity!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More scouting...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those spears turn out to be pretty useful for catching fish.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We build a very important building. The Master Hunter is required to build all hunting units
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, since I think enough stuff has happened to call this update finished, have an updated world map!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So the Celts are nearby. I mean, they're really close. Should we make a concerted effort to destroy them? And if we do, should we recall all those scouting Neanderthals so we can focus all our forces on them? A big stack of Atlatlists and Neanderthal Warriors ought to be able to crush them.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 04, 2012, 04:11:03 am
Wise men say it is better to kill them all and take thier land than to not kill them all and not take thier land.
Post by: Sirus on August 04, 2012, 04:11:30 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 04, 2012, 06:05:26 am
Ignore Lincoln and his people's unintelligible babbling. They're probably just strange human-shaped animals.
Post by: Boksi on August 04, 2012, 07:31:46 am
Fun fact: I'm hoping there's gold near our city. We would seriously benefit from gold.
Post by: Frumple on August 04, 2012, 07:44:51 am
Mudada. Kill them while they're weak.
Early game pile on, if you can manage it, might be nice. Depends on if the celts city's in a good spot and you've got (or can get) the forces for it.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 04, 2012, 08:19:06 am
Quote
You may wonder about the presence of an intelligence agency in prehistoric times. Tell me, have you ever seen a Neanderthal? No? That's how good they are.
I lol'd.
Well, we've encountered our first superpower, and a whole crapload of resources on the mainland. We're cooking with gas now... metaphorically, since we don't even have fire somehow. Good to now we'll be able to control this whole inner sea, once there's naval powers to control stuff.
I'm thinking the first target to settle is either that pennisula west of Armok, with the horses, or the fertile inlet northwest of that with the river and corn. Everything on our island can wait until we have a foothold in the land of many animals. Then, we prepared for waaar!
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 04, 2012, 08:56:25 am
Post by: SoHowAreYou on August 04, 2012, 09:27:48 am
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on August 04, 2012, 09:47:56 am
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 04, 2012, 10:11:11 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 04, 2012, 10:22:32 am
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 04, 2012, 10:30:55 am
Post by: Boksi on August 04, 2012, 10:36:49 am
Post by: Iituem on August 04, 2012, 11:38:19 am
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 04, 2012, 11:47:30 am
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 04, 2012, 11:51:09 am
War? War!? War is hell. We should not step unto that viciou-- ZA WARUDO *grk*Just lol.
Mudada. Kill them while they're weak.
Also I agree. Mudada![/glow]
*attempt to find good warcry picture*
...
GODDAMMIT google, why u no give the picture I want?
warcry = crapton of crappy rockbands
uruk hai warcry = pictures of arab-spring wars (including H. mubarak. WTF?)
barbarian warcry = 459 pages of diablo 3...
Post by: Boksi on August 04, 2012, 12:20:07 pm
These technical difficulties promise to be very delicious, but it is next to impossible to update while enjoying them, so they are technically difficulties. Thus I am not sure if I'll be able to update today; we'll see if I can.
Post by: Glacies on August 04, 2012, 12:27:26 pm
Technique wise, it would be cool to camp an ambusher in the city radius of an enemy civ. When they leave a worker/gatherer undefended, pounce on them. Then disband all captured workers/gatherers cos' if you don't then next turn they'll send a unit in who will attack the ambusher and reclaim the workers. Also watch out for dogs. A lone dog probably can't damage you but if he spots you for a stack of axemen...
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 04, 2012, 12:40:18 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 04, 2012, 01:05:39 pm
What will be the negatives to conquering another tribe right now?
Post by: Svampapa on August 04, 2012, 01:28:53 pm
*attempt to find good warcry picture*
(http://tem.kontek.net/Pictures/GIF/warface.gif)
Show me your warface!
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 04, 2012, 01:30:09 pm
Post by: Jacob/Lee on August 04, 2012, 05:30:35 pm
Post by: Corai on August 04, 2012, 05:33:48 pm
No slavery though.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on August 04, 2012, 05:35:59 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on August 04, 2012, 10:52:34 pm
...but all survivors are granted full citizenships as reward for surviving our attack. The greatest thing about headhunters: You're either their friend or your head is on a spike. There is no middle ground.
So, that is another veto for slavery. It's just not the headhunter way.
Also when we get a chance, I'd like us to adopt barter. I have way too many spears that I'd really like to trade for some food. Please? EuchreJack hungry, please take spear for food. EuchreJack like making spears, but no good at fishing (apparently fish no like EuchreJack smell).
Post by: NRDL on August 05, 2012, 04:47:41 am
Post by: Boksi on August 05, 2012, 06:33:40 am
Well, I'm not dead yet, but if I had only the infrastructure and knowledge of the Jivaro, I'd probably die. As it is, I'll live, but I will be incredibly butthurt for a while.
I'd like to make an update nevertheless, but I cannot guarantee anything.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 05, 2012, 12:04:49 pm
Remember that idea some people had a couple dozens of generations ago? The one where you enslave other people? I think we've just found these other people.
I seem to recall hearing that the sky pillars would fall over if anybody put some wood in the sea and got on it. Yeah, I see how it is. We find some humans who aren't Mayanpanpenponpu and all of a suddenlike, boy sitting on that wood and kicking water sure was a good idea!
I think somebody owes somebody an apology.
Post by: jetex1911 on August 05, 2012, 01:34:44 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 05, 2012, 02:54:16 pm
As for the installation: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m77OhRj6b74)
Post by: Svampapa on August 05, 2012, 03:42:53 pm
Turns out I need cities on tundra to build Viking Culture, so there goes my dream of a futurist asatru society. :(
Post by: Sirus on August 05, 2012, 04:32:21 pm
Yeah. I've been crashing a few times.Whaaaaaaat. That sounds like a crappy restriction.
Turns out I need cities on tundra to build Viking Culture, so there goes my dream of a futurist asatru society. :(
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 05, 2012, 07:03:25 pm
I'm sorry, but that was back when we only had sky spirits to consult with. With modern improvements in technology, like the acquisition of earth spirits, we know more about the world and can predict the outcomes of our actions with near certainty. So yes, it's obvious today that paddling to the Lands of the Others only causes the sky spirits to punish people with grasshut-destroying hurricane. The point is, we did not know that back then, our scientific thought was still flailing blindly about the mysteries of our existence, and we hadn't had enough data to justify putting each and every one of our brothers and sisters at risk.Remember that idea some people had a couple dozens of generations ago? The one where you enslave other people? I think we've just found these other people.
I seem to recall hearing that the sky pillars would fall over if anybody put some wood in the sea and got on it. Yeah, I see how it is. We find some humans who aren't Mayanpanpenponpu and all of a suddenlike, boy sitting on that wood and kicking water sure was a good idea!
I think somebody owes somebody an apology.
You may brag about your supposedly good judgement now, but the fact remains that you advocated exploration with reckless abandon, with complete disregard for the safety of your kin, and quite simply without much thought. Don't you realise that you and your henchmen could've killed us all?
I ask you this, are we animals or children(pretty much the same anyway, but I digress) to let ourselves be driven by sudden urges and random fooleries, or are we people?
Think first, then act.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 05, 2012, 07:12:25 pm
Wait....what if....what if you all are automatons! What if I am! What if none of this is even real! We could just be a simulacrum of real people! I can't take this!
Post by: Frumple on August 05, 2012, 07:19:59 pm
Post by: A Spoony Bard on August 05, 2012, 09:50:55 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 05, 2012, 10:10:17 pm
I think we should we should go with slavery, after all, we use those subdued vipers and animals all the time, and these "kill-ticks" make strange noises and are different from us, just like the animals we've used in the past!Agreed, we could definitely use the bonus from Advanced Livestock.
Post by: Jarod Cain on August 06, 2012, 02:46:04 am
Quote
You may wonder about the presence of an intelligence agency in prehistoric times. Tell me, have you ever seen a Neanderthal? No? That's how good they are.They are also quite adept with the law, one spoke on my behalf when I speared Pen a few weeks ago during a fishing trip.
I say we do to these Keltics the same we did to the Neanderthal only on a greater scale. We war with them, take their city and make their people our own.
-J-
Post by: Boksi on August 06, 2012, 11:38:39 am
Also, votes:
Economic civic:
Slavery: NRDL, Il Palazzo, A Spoony Bard, Metal Slime Hunt, Aqizzar, Karlito?
Barter: EuchreJack, ansontan2000, Corai
Religious civic:
Divine Cult: MetalSlimeHunt, Bluerobin
Not Divine Cult: Frumple
Folklore: Aqizzar, Karlito?
Prophets:
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 06, 2012, 11:45:34 am
Slavery sounds like a crappy civic.
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 06, 2012, 11:53:43 am
1 vote barter.
Slavery sounds like a crappy civic.
I'll tell you right now, yeah, it is.
Post by: Neonivek on August 06, 2012, 11:57:09 am
1 vote barter.
Slavery sounds like a crappy civic.
I'll tell you right now, yeah, it is.
Yeah if I have to attribute a major flaw to this game it is the sheer number of "What am I insane? Why would I want to research or build that?" you get (actually mine would be the sheer content loading it does >_<)
I don't want to build impliments of torture, pain, and destruction. Why would I? For a lower crime rate? I have no crime!
Post by: Boksi on August 06, 2012, 12:28:59 pm
Naghualism has wonderful synergy with slavery since several of its wonders completely eliminate unrest from sacrificing population.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 06, 2012, 12:46:25 pm
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 06, 2012, 12:50:19 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 06, 2012, 01:00:42 pm
Post by: Solifuge on August 06, 2012, 01:28:07 pm
Also, following.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 06, 2012, 01:36:18 pm
Edit:actuallyactuallyactuallyactuallyactually. Hopefully that gets it out of my system for a while.
Post by: Iituem on August 06, 2012, 01:52:18 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on August 06, 2012, 02:26:56 pm
Ok, I'll change my vote to slavery for now. We can always become civilized and start trading for stuff later.
Post by: Frumple on August 06, 2012, 02:30:42 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 06, 2012, 02:34:26 pm
First, we begin recalling the various Neanderthal Warriors sent out to explore. This takes a long while because both the Neanderthals and the ships can only move one tile per turn. As it turns out, travel delay is probably the most significant factor in this war.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Two of our Neanderthals had been sent to explore the east, so they simply go north and scout out the Celts. Man, they have a lot of resources.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lee Jacob is unique in that I'm going to have him try to go to Bibracte by land rather than sea.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research some more stuff on our way to tribalism. Atlatlists are actually very powerful. They're strength 4 archery units and have a bonus when defending cities.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, Lee Jacob fights off a hippopotamus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, my plan is to disembark the Neanderthals at the Disembarkation Point, and then march them in the safe and defensible hills towards the city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The immorality and laziness of our youth reaches new depths of depravity.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lee Jacob versus angry wildlife! What a haul! That's three more myths to our growing collection.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, overconfidence of the player and the RNG conspire against him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fighting is not unknown to the Jivaro, but this is not a mere brawl. This is war.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And we're going to need all the help we can get to defeat the Celts on their home turf.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At this point, I come to a realization: It's quicker to just delete the rafts and build new ones. Early boats, ie rafts and canoes, are limited in number, so you have to lose some before you can make more of them. The first victim of this new policy is, sadly, Aqizzar's Raft. Don't worry, we'll build you a much nicer boat someday!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This... Is not good. We don't even show up on the list.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, and by the way, our intelligence agency has infiltrated Celt society to the point where we can see what they're researching. Right now, they're researching boat building.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Caveman2Cosmos: A work in progress.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I decide to build a healer. This fight may last longer than a single turn, after all, and he might be useful.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh look at that. The Celts had stationed two units on the hill north of Bibracte to block our progress. Last turn, there was a barbarian Neanderthal on the hill to the north of the north hill.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, let's try to get rid of this annoying hill garrison. The Neanderthals move south, next to Bibracte.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Predictably, the Celts pull everything back to protect their sole city. Who's king of the hill now, bitch?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We keep sending more and more troops to the siege. Bibracte is gonna be a tough nut to crack.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, we figure stone makes for excellent hut material.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like the Celts are researching Atlatl making, since they've finished boat building. Hopefully they won't build a navy and sink all our ships. I doubt they will, they're probably too preoccupied with building more land units to defend the city from our army. Plus they don't know we're stuck on an island; they don't know where we're from period.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The wind spirits show they favor us!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We've brought our log ram to bear to batter down their defenses. Since they don't have any defenses built, we simply use it to make insinuations about the size of certain organs and how the Celts cannot pleasure their wives.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, after all that hard thinking, we develop Tribalism. Sweet.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We still haven't killed the Celts though. I decide to tech towards slavery, since it's currently winning the vote. And if it loses to barter, well, barter is the prerequisite tech to slavery anyway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another feature of this mod: Surround and Destroy gives you bonuses for surrounding the enemy. I'm not exactly sure how they work, so here I just put a Neanderthal Warrior in each tile around the city. I did check whether ships would help the bonus, and it turned out it didn't. At least, not for rafts. I wonder if it'd have been better to have more units in the surrounding tiles?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A long and epic struggle ensues. In fact, I'm so absorbed into it that I forget to take pictures. Well, it's just two dudes whacking each other with their weapons until one of them falls down, anyway. This update is big enough already, it doesn't need even more pictures.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The necessity of counting how many mens you have left and how many mens your opponent has leads to the discovery of, well, counting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After that big fight, it's clear that we have the advantage. It's just a matter of mopping up now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We stop just short of killing all of them. Not out of any kind of mercy, but because we didn't have any more units to attack with. We only had four surviving Neanderthal Warriors after that big fight. Incidentally, you can see how that Log Ram has enough experience to level up, but it can't be promoted because we haven't unlocked any promotions it could get.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, we can just kill them on the next turn. And we do.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
However, when we stormed the city, there was one last warrior who opposed us. His name was Abraham Lincoln, and he towered over all of our troops. His skill with the axe was incredible, and he cut down many of our troops. It seemed he would turn the tide of the battle by himself, when something unexpected happened! De Gaulle himself arrived, screaming "There can only be one!". Their fight was fierce, and none of our troops dared intervene, for they could barely see the axes the two wielded, such was their speed. Eventually, de Gaulle broke Lincoln's axe, and with a mighty swing he clove Lincoln's head clean off his shoulders. But Lincoln's power was such that even in his death, he struck down many of the dumbstruck warriors who had simply been watching the fight. Still, that was the last of Lincoln, and as such it was also the last of the Celts. Bibracte was ours.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, have an updated world map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Only took us a little under three millenia.
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 06, 2012, 02:49:15 pm
also PLUNDER!! death! and pillage! yesss
shame, we couldn't make slaves of them yet.
Oh well, I'm technically a celt, so good enough. I call dibs on some science-related job in bibracte (rename it! but I cant think of a fitting name. "City of spillt blood" would be nice, if you guys find some traduction in our imaginary language.)
Post by: Frumple on August 06, 2012, 02:50:44 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 06, 2012, 03:06:50 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 06, 2012, 03:11:13 pm
-PonPan()
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 06, 2012, 03:19:38 pm
We should also end it with. I think the river should refer to Toads in some way. (Toadanie, Toadier, Toadstream?)
-PonPan()
Toadwythïen ("toad's vein").
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 06, 2012, 03:24:55 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 06, 2012, 03:43:56 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 06, 2012, 03:52:46 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 06, 2012, 04:26:57 pm
Post by: Glacies on August 06, 2012, 06:34:37 pm
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 06, 2012, 06:40:42 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 06, 2012, 06:45:23 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 06, 2012, 07:12:18 pm
Long term loss for Short Term Gain.
Post by: Iituem on August 06, 2012, 07:19:01 pm
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 06, 2012, 07:35:28 pm
Post by: Iituem on August 06, 2012, 07:41:56 pm
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 06, 2012, 07:55:59 pm
Post by: RulerOfNothing on August 06, 2012, 08:02:28 pm
In vanilla civ4+Expansions, nope, not possible. Maybe it was added with this mod, although I doubt it.They did add it, unless they got rid of it later on (I distinctly remember actually trying this feature).
Post by: BunnyBob77 on August 06, 2012, 08:07:42 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 06, 2012, 08:11:11 pm
Post by: Bluerobin on August 06, 2012, 08:19:52 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on August 06, 2012, 11:30:58 pm
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on August 06, 2012, 11:55:07 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 07, 2012, 06:47:58 am
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 07, 2012, 07:10:31 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 07, 2012, 07:15:08 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 07, 2012, 07:15:49 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 07, 2012, 07:27:07 am
We haven't researched Liberalism yet.
SHUSH! We mustn't let the developing peoples know of our technology, or the fact that we are guiding their every step!
Post by: Shades on August 07, 2012, 08:29:22 am
And Barter overtakes slavery once again! Hooray Liberalism!
I vote slavery :)
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 07, 2012, 08:30:49 am
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 07, 2012, 10:13:09 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 07, 2012, 10:15:02 am
I vote for nuclear fusion. :PWe can't see uranium yet. It is invisible to our ignorant tribal senses.
Radiation isn't even going to exist until 1870.
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 07, 2012, 10:37:53 am
We have noticed the yellow rocks are poison though.I vote for nuclear fusion. :PWe can't see uranium yet. It is invisible to our ignorant tribal senses.
Radiation isn't even going to exist until 1870.
Post by: Boksi on August 07, 2012, 10:42:37 am
Economic civic:
Slavery: NRDL, Il Palazzo, A Spoony Bard, Metal Slime Hunt, Aqizzar, Karlito?, kaian-a-coel, Iituem, Shades
Barter: ansontan2000, Corai, Karnewarrior, Bluerobin, Glacies, Sirus, BunnyBob77, EuchreJack, JacenHanLovesLegos, 10ebbor10, stabbymcstabstab
Barter is in the lead.
Religious civic:
Divine Cult: MetalSlimeHunt, Bluerobin, BunnyBob77
Not Divine Cult: Frumple
Folklore: Aqizzar, Karlito?
Prophets:
Divine Cult is in the lead.
And now, this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4QYkrp44us)
Post by: Glacies on August 07, 2012, 11:18:09 am
Post by: Shades on August 07, 2012, 11:19:10 am
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 07, 2012, 12:26:33 pm
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 07, 2012, 12:39:13 pm
*clik link*
...
AAAUUUUUGGGHHHHHH!! MY EYES! IT BBUUUUUURRRRNNNNN!!!
Post by: Karlito on August 07, 2012, 02:02:03 pm
Post by: FritzPL on August 07, 2012, 02:10:50 pm
Also, when are Jivaro going to get settler type units? As in, leave their mudstone huts and set up a new place to build huts in?
I mean, the bay north-west of Mt. Armok looks very promising.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 07, 2012, 03:48:57 pm
I vote for Folklore and Barter.You get settlers when you research sedentary. (This is the beginning of the first Civ era.) Quite a long way of currently.
Also, when are Jivaro going to get settler type units? As in, leave their mudstone huts and set up a new place to build huts in?
I mean, the bay north-west of Mt. Armok looks very promising.
Though we can make tribes now, which are essentially the same.
Post by: Boksi on August 07, 2012, 03:50:35 pm
First of all, thanks for the tip!
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Thanks to Raft Building, Bibracte is connected to our trade network. There didn't seem to be any kind of consensus on a new name, so I refrained from renaming it.
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Gotta get more science up.
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Shinies!
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Holy fuck! That's a third religion founded. We really gotta get more science up.
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Look at where the next religion-founding tech is; it'd normally found Tengriism. We probably won't win the race to Sedentary Lifestyle.
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Time to get a new tribe going! Let's make our own city! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the city, we haven't invented cities yet anyway!
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Meanwhile, the Celts are getting unruly.
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We also subdue a horse. This is the first time it's happened to me, and of course we have plenty of horses near our cities now so we didn't need to capture it anyway.
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We research Barter.
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Now we're researching Canine Domestication. We actually pillaged most of that tech from the Celts, so we only need to do a little research by ourselves. Oh, and we found gold near MP4, which is a really really good thing for us. I'll go into the why later.
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We try to send out some more scouts, but there's a lot of animals out there.
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That sure didn't take long.
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Alright, we'll go for Chiefdom for the Chiefdom civic, and then Mysticism for the Divine Cult civic, which is winning the race at this point in time.
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Better get some more science going!
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Uh-oh! A shark! Our raft can't handle that! Let's try to save the embarked horse at least.
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We research the prerequisite to Chiefdom, but don't have the resources to actually use it.
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Since our rafts won't be able to handle anything but the puniest of sea animals, I decide to disband them once they reach their destination.
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I also build the Myth of the Earth, the other Myth required to build the Nazca Lines. It doesn't need a palace like most myths, so we can build it in Bibracte just fine.
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Our warrior faces off against a fierce and terrifying beast. Also, you can see how it has a tiny chance of becoming a permanent resource rather than just dying or being captured.
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This is why you'd want to capture a horse if you have none near your cities. I use him for the myth, though.
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Sometimes you have nothing better to do with animals than to eat them.
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Our scouts continue their work.
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I decide to get Boat Building done before Mysticism so we don't have to worry so much about sea animals.
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Some things to note about crocodiles in this mod: They often turn into knights, graphically, and they like to laze around in the same spot. Sometimes forever, or at least until killed.
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I suddenly realize that having gold won't do us any good if we don't have the necessary technology! I think these pictures speak for themselves.
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We research Chiefdom. Let's not wait any longer to implement new civics!
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For a few seconds I though we were being attacked by mindworms or something. But it turned out to just be reused graphics from an AC remake mod.
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Another of our scouts dies, but our last one finds an unguarded tribal village!
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One warrior of Bibracte's garrison faces the locust horde.
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The tribe is ready to leave for drier pastures. Let's get a gatherer to get that gold.
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I'm proposing two possible ways to settle the north-west.
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We need to pacify the area before sending out our tribe, though.
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Also, the chief's hut is a very useful building, although it takes a while to build.
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More technology!
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Let's get that gold!
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We really need that hut to calm down the Celts.
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Welp.
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Some animals are more valuable than others.
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We discover the reason why we're paler than the people up north. Oh wait, no we don't, that's another kind of Tanning.
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Time to build some scouts, right?
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NOPE. Hunter time.
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Here you can see how unstable Bibracte is in numerical terms. That red Che face represents instability. High instability causes revolts, which are bad for you.
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Our hunter uppercuts a fucking Cheetah.
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Oh hey, a list we show up on!
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We research Boat Building! We need a Canoe Builder's Hut before we can build canoes, though.
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Hunters are good against animals, but nothing special versus anything else.
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We do more research! Yay!
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Canoes are twice as strong as rafts and have an innate 50% bonus versus animals. This stacks with the free Hunter I promotion from our Hunting Instruction.
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Also we can just upgrade our rafts into canoes, so I didn't need to delete those rafts earlier. Derp.
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Zebras count as horses mythwise, but not herdwise.
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I should have used it to build Governor's Pets, though. Even the Chieftain's Hut hasn't completely stabilized Bibracte. A bit of hunting is all it takes to get the governor a whole menagerie, though.
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At some point, the Aztecs contacted us, but I didn't notice because we don't get a popup greeting like in vanilla Civ4, on account of being minor civilizations who cannot conduct diplomacy.
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Obsidian Weapons GET!
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Also, our
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No new world map because I am a dumb.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 07, 2012, 04:12:05 pm
I support Settlement Plan Teal. The culture spread will go to waste under Settlement Plan Violet because of proximity to Mayanpanponpenpu.
Post by: Pnx on August 07, 2012, 05:01:57 pm
It's not surprising that you're behind on tech, tech in the early stages depends heavily on how many animals you can get for myths.
Post by: Furtuka on August 07, 2012, 05:34:19 pm
Post by: Sirus on August 07, 2012, 05:56:31 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 07, 2012, 06:30:27 pm
I vote for what I think is spot 3? I don't know what the colors being referenced refer to
I'm proposing two possible ways to settle the north-west.It's easy to see how you'd miss it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on August 07, 2012, 07:04:22 pm
Anyway. Five shinies as opposed to four or three. Obvious choice is obvious, especially when the two "three" options don't allow for crab jokes.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 07, 2012, 07:09:34 pm
I for one don't think it's so weird that it took three goddamn millennia to fight a war with the Celts. Sure, it's fun to picture some Neanderthal islanders having a conversation like, "We have always been at war with the Celts. Who are the Celts? The ones we have always been at war with." But I think of it like the earliest records of 'warfare' which really more like violent migrations. In the earliest known histories of places like Egypt and Babylon (themselves still worlds more advanced than us), their early historical records don't even have names for who they were fighting and conquered by. Like the "Sea Peoples" and such, which is probably what the native Celts call us.
More importantly, I am baffled that we're not the most powerful civilization in the world right now, given that we have two cities to probably everyone else's one. I hate Civilization difficulty.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 07, 2012, 07:21:56 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 07, 2012, 07:25:54 pm
I definitely support north-most teal for the first new city here, up by the river. West-most violet for the second area, riverside hills are always the best places to put cities.Yes, this seems like a pretty good idea to me. Both cities should be near rivers and have good access to resources, and the culture borders should expand to cover the gaps between them.
Post by: Furtuka on August 07, 2012, 07:30:17 pm
Post by: Bluerobin on August 07, 2012, 08:34:33 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 07, 2012, 08:36:51 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 08, 2012, 01:43:45 am
I like the middle or top location, but how would trade routes work if we settled in the top one? If we settle in the middle or bottom location we get free trade routes because of raft building, but if we settle in the top we can't link that city to our trade network with a REALLY long road. I don't really remember how important that is, though.There's a river leading to the sea. Rivers are natural roads
Post by: FritzPL on August 08, 2012, 02:25:30 am
I definitely support north-most teal for the first new city here, up by the river. West-most violet for the second area, riverside hills are always the best places to put cities.
I am just gonna trust Aqizzar's suggestion here, as I think we both wish the same thing.
If a city has a diagonal access to the sea, does that still count? Can it still build ships and take benefits from having access to sea?
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 08, 2012, 03:07:40 am
I definitely support north-most teal for the first new city here, up by the river. West-most violet for the second area, riverside hills are always the best places to put cities.
I am just gonna trust Aqizzar's suggestion here, as I think we both wish the same thing.
If a city has a diagonal access to the sea, does that still count? Can it still build ships and take benefits from having access to sea?
Yep. Diagonal access is fine, or at least in vanilla civ 4 it is.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 08, 2012, 03:19:17 am
Besides, If we have problems with rebellions, we can always try to bribe. One thing I notice about this mod is that you get much more money. At least I do.
Post by: Svampapa on August 08, 2012, 08:28:01 am
Post by: Boksi on August 08, 2012, 09:32:15 am
Post by: Bluerobin on August 08, 2012, 11:47:48 am
Post by: Boksi on August 08, 2012, 11:50:37 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We found our third city! We are now the Jivaro Empire! The city is also named Mayapan, until someone invents a better name.
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Wee need to get this city up and running. The founding of the city forced the barbarian Neanderthal outside our borders and automatically explored the village he was sitting on.
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Might as well build sometime I've always wanted to build.
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We upgrade the stone thrower to an Atlatlist and have him guard the new city.
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We've got a bunch of Gathereres working to improve the surroundings of Bibracte.
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Another animal that's great to capture when you don't have its associated resource already!
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Is it just me, or is it really dry up north?
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Constructing improvements is supposed to consume Gatherers, but in this case it doesn't. Odd.
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Making our own fire turns out to be fairly simple once we put our minds to it.
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This is the building that Captured Fire would have given us. It's alright, but I'm building it for the smoke signals.
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This game does not support divergent evolution. Desert animals can spawn in any desert in the world, for example, and bamboo is found on all continents.
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We probably won't reach this first, but I still want to try for it. I'm pretty sure it's easier to research techs that are in past eras, too, so it might speed up our tech rate.
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Smoke Signals!
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Our canoe engages a hammerhead shark! The canoe wins, by the way.
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And our hunter proves that while he's nothing special, he can still take on barbarians.
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We research Petroglyphs. Painting on rocks, basically.
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Owch. Shark took a pretty big bite out of our canoe.
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Still, we got something out of the fight.
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Also, you can use practically any animal for a military standard. Including a pigeon.
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Oh no, our hunter is surrounded!
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We also find something interesting. We're pretty damn far south, aren't we?
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We invent a new sport: Not getting crushed to death by a herd of angry bison. It's fun!
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We also invent basic arithmetic. We're freaking geniuses!
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But we had better stop somewhere. The update, that is, not our scientific progress. So here's a world map:
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on August 08, 2012, 12:00:57 pm
Constructing improvements is supposed to consume Gatherers, but in this case it doesn't. Odd.I noticed it depends on the improvement! If you've got higher tech stuff (camp instead of scavenger (iirc) camp, ferex), the gatherer can use that instead and not get ate by it. It's only the lower tech stuff that includes a "will consume unit" bit, so it's not something unique to the gatherers but instead the improvements they build.
Post by: Karlito on August 08, 2012, 12:05:06 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 08, 2012, 01:13:54 pm
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 08, 2012, 01:17:19 pm
Pumayapan, definitely.
Yeah, let's go with this. Could use an additional po though.
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 08, 2012, 01:21:04 pm
Popumayapan for our fourth city then.Pumayapan, definitely.
Yeah, let's go with this. Could use an additional po though.
Post by: Boksi on August 08, 2012, 01:21:14 pm
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 08, 2012, 01:28:32 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 08, 2012, 01:32:49 pm
Seconded.What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Yes. This.
Post by: Darkmere on August 08, 2012, 01:38:22 pm
Post by: Pnx on August 08, 2012, 01:41:58 pm
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 08, 2012, 01:42:40 pm
What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Yes. This.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 08, 2012, 01:45:55 pm
Post by: Satarus on August 08, 2012, 02:11:26 pm
THIS!What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Yes. This.
Post by: Sirus on August 08, 2012, 02:15:14 pm
NOT THIS!!!THIS!What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Yes. This.
Just kidding, I'm good with this :p
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 08, 2012, 02:49:53 pm
Toadwythïen ("toad's vein").
That's the river btw
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 08, 2012, 03:05:35 pm
THIS!!NOT THIS!!!THIS!What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
Yes. This.
Just kidding, I'm good with this :p
Post by: Shades on August 08, 2012, 04:18:52 pm
Post by: Iituem on August 08, 2012, 04:24:29 pm
What about Aberpanapopuma?
I thought we were going to show these Celts how do their own city names properly.
and
Popumayapan for our fourth city then.Pumayapan, definitely.
Yeah, let's go with this. Could use an additional po though.
Post by: Pnx on August 08, 2012, 05:51:27 pm
Post by: FritzPL on August 09, 2012, 12:23:18 pm
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on August 09, 2012, 12:27:39 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 09, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
Is it just me, or is this let's play's researching slower than normal? It's 4300 BC now, and I am one tech from the third era, ahead of probably every civ out there.
Quote from: From the first post
Snail speed(second slowest)Which is to say, you're probably not on snail. If you are, then the difference is probably just due to tile yields around your starting and later cities.
Post by: Boksi on August 09, 2012, 12:38:39 pm
We're on marathon speed, actually. And Monarch difficulty. And we haven't started capturing any animals until fairly recently. I know for a fact that we're rather behind in the tech race.Is it just me, or is this let's play's researching slower than normal? It's 4300 BC now, and I am one tech from the third era, ahead of probably every civ out there.Quote from: From the first postSnail speed(second slowest)Which is to say, you're probably not on snail. If you are, then the difference is probably just due to tile yields around your starting and later cities.
I'm pretty sure that if you're in the third era by 4300 BC you're way ahead of where you should be.
Post by: FritzPL on August 09, 2012, 01:03:25 pm
Also, how to make the signs stay? They just dissapear after a couple of turns.
Post by: Satarus on August 09, 2012, 02:04:28 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 09, 2012, 02:40:15 pm
I have a question about fixed borders. Do I have to keep my guys on that tile forever or does culture eventually let me move my troops away ?Your culture will spread there eventually, but I don't think it'll get there any faster. If you're claiming territory outside the radius of any city, you can build a fort to claim the area more permanently, since forts automatically control their tile and all surrounding tiles(you'll want to have units garrisoned there though, or the enemy can just waltz in and claim them). You can do it inside the radius of a city too, but I usually wouldn't recommend it.
Post by: Azkul on August 09, 2012, 02:45:05 pm
Post by: Maldevious on August 09, 2012, 06:00:56 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 09, 2012, 06:13:55 pm
I'll try to do two tomorrow then, to make up for it. Gotta make the most of summer vacation while it lasts.
Post by: MonkeyHead on August 10, 2012, 03:30:50 am
WELSH =/= CELTS
Last time I checked we very much had them as a major part in our anscestry, as do the Scots and Irish and Bretons....
Post by: Azkul on August 10, 2012, 06:20:49 am
What I meant was that the Welsh are Celts but the Celts are not Welsh, if that makes sense.WELSH =/= CELTS
Last time I checked we very much had them as a major part in our anscestry, as do the Scots and Irish and Bretons....
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 10, 2012, 06:23:41 am
Post by: Boksi on August 10, 2012, 10:33:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We find a stone thrower on an island. We don't want him, so we delete him.
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Then our canoe fights a killer whale.
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We encounter the Persians.
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This is a lot of crocodiles. I'm not sure if it's intended behavior.
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Freaking Locust Swarms.
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We found the other edge of the continent!
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Meanwhile, the canoe that was resting after the orca attack is attacked by another whale.
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We research Pictographs! Yeah, that's useful.
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Aggressive scouting of Persian lands. We're automatically at war with everyone, so we can do shit like this.
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Freaking locust swarms.
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Also, we got a monkey.
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Our hunter gets into a knifefight with two Persian Hunters, and wins.
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Shamanism, the second religion-founding tech of the game! Of course, we're far from the first to get to it.
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Big booty borders.
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Further scouting of Persia.
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We also locate the Aztecs.
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Border growth, hooray!
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Our hunter gets into a third knifefight and this time he does not win. Another of our hunters manages to knife a fucking elephant to death, though.
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Oh look, the Aztecs have some nice stuff.
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And hey, we can construct Culture (Huron)!
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Then we finish researching Ceremonial Burial. Most of those buildings require more techs to build though, like Masonry.
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We find the capital of the Aztecs, while our other hunter moves in from the west.
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I wasn't kidding when I said the Stone Tool Maker was the premiere building of the stone age.
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Turns out the Aztecs have a second city!
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We also encounter the Navajo, who are probably located futher up north.
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The Culture (Huron) is finished. I'm not sure what their UU is supposed to provide, though.
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Oh god nine strength this is too much like my japanese animes ruuuun! Or row, since that's a canoe.
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Capping off the update, we research Mysticism. I don't change to Divine Cult though, because we don't have a proper religion to build a cult around. The only religion in our cities is Christianity.
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Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 10, 2012, 10:52:22 am
SPAM THE TRIBES
More cities means more growth at a time, and the more growth we have, the more tribes we can pump out, or more other units to improve the cities or simply take over others cities.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 10, 2012, 10:53:02 am
We can have 6 cities now, correct?City limit was removed in the later versions of this mod, I think.
SPAM THE TRIBES
More cities means more growth at a time, and the more growth we have, the more tribes we can pump out, or more other units to improve the cities or simply take over others cities.
Post by: Boksi on August 10, 2012, 10:55:04 am
There's still a soft cap in the form of extra unhappiness if you go above a certain number, though.We can have 6 cities now, correct?City limit was removed in the later versions of this mod, I think.
SPAM THE TRIBES
More cities means more growth at a time, and the more growth we have, the more tribes we can pump out, or more other units to improve the cities or simply take over others cities.
Post by: Pnx on August 10, 2012, 10:59:45 am
But yeah, I think at least getting down that second city should be a priority, you may also want to build some more military units, now that you're on the mainland you're going to have to contend with a lot of barbarians invading, and potentially quite a few attacks from other civs.
Post by: Karlito on August 10, 2012, 11:00:27 am
Post by: ansontan2000 on August 10, 2012, 11:08:28 am
We can have 6 cities now, correct?
SPAM THE TRIBES
More cities means more growth at a time, and the more growth we have, the more tribes we can pump out, or more other units to improve the cities or simply take over others cities.
Post by: Maldevious on August 10, 2012, 11:25:15 am
Post by: Satarus on August 10, 2012, 11:50:04 am
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 10, 2012, 01:32:45 pm
In other news, since we're an empire now can't we end some of these wars, or are city-states perpetually at war for the entire game?
Post by: Neonivek on August 10, 2012, 01:36:30 pm
We can have 6 cities now, correct?
SPAM THE TRIBES
More cities means more growth at a time, and the more growth we have, the more tribes we can pump out, or more other units to improve the cities or simply take over others cities.No, we have 3 citiesOh. Oopsies. Yeah, having more cities leads to exponential growth. You gotta watch out for maintenance costs, though.
It is almost pathetically easy to keep up with maintenance costs once you got enough hammers since this game has soo many unbelievable amounts buildings that give gold.
In fact it is science that can give you trouble in trying to get some. Gold not so much.
Post by: Boksi on August 10, 2012, 01:38:18 pm
I think there's room on MP4 island for one or even two more cities, IIRC. But settling the mainland takes priority; ot means the Aztecs/persians/other won't get it.We're an empire, but we're still a minor civilization. Silly, I know. We have to research writing to communicate with people, so until we and and our opponents have writing, we can't have peace.
In other news, since we're an empire now can't we end some of these wars, or are city-states perpetually at war for the entire game?
Post by: ed boy on August 10, 2012, 03:08:54 pm
Also, I say we scout out the military strength of our closest enemy, and if they're weak start attacking them. Also, settle lots of new cities.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 10, 2012, 06:14:29 pm
Feel free to get rid of that "Disembarkation Point" marker any time, unless you just really like commemorating it.
Why aren't all civilization automatically at war with me in my game? I know you're supposed to be a minor civilization, and I think I am, but I definitely have diplomacy.
Just how good an idea is it to use animals as units? I've got an elephant and two gorillas subdued, and some Mongols who look like they could use a gorilla fist in the face. Obviously, I'll need Spiked Clubmen to guard them.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2012, 06:16:38 pm
Post by: thunderclan on August 10, 2012, 06:49:26 pm
And oddly my first game was lost because of elephants killing everything that left my territory...
Post by: Boksi on August 10, 2012, 06:49:46 pm
Things:I just kept it as a reference point for later world map. Incidentally, feel free to suggest names for landmarks.
Feel free to get rid of that "Disembarkation Point" marker any time, unless you just really like commemorating it.
Why aren't all civilization automatically at war with me in my game? I know you're supposed to be a minor civilization, and I think I am, but I definitely have diplomacy.
Just how good an idea is it to use animals as units? I've got an elephant and two gorillas subdued, and some Mongols who look like they could use a gorilla fist in the face. Obviously, I'll need Spiked Clubmen to guard them.
I believe you need to go into 'Custom Game' and select the 'Start as Minor Civs' option for that stuff. Unless they changed it in the new version; I know I'm one version behind right now and I don't care to upgrade.
Animals are not very good warriors. They have no promotions and anti-animal promotions are very easy to acquire; almost all our units in this LP have Hunter I, for example, which is a 50% bonus against animals. Still, there's nothing stopping you.
Post by: Pnx on August 10, 2012, 06:52:13 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 10, 2012, 06:55:21 pm
Animals also have a malus for attacking cities.
Plus if you just think about how useful it is to capture tons upon tons of animals and use them for every kind of boost available it is quite sizable.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2012, 07:06:07 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 10, 2012, 07:10:47 pm
If Hunter I gives humans a 50% boost over animals, I can only imagine what Hunter III does. Immunity?
Hunter 3 is something like 200% advantage on animals.
Hunters, which you can only obtain by having a hunters lodge built which can only be built be some animals, get a free Hunter III
Post by: Karlito on August 10, 2012, 07:11:49 pm
Incidentally, feel free to suggest names for landmarks.
The desert, at the very least, needs a name. How would one go about rendering Big-Unpleasant-Not-Wet-Place into Jivaro?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 10, 2012, 07:14:58 pm
Alright, so we just need a boat with a base strength of 4 or 5 and Hunter III to take on the Giant Squid.If Hunter I gives humans a 50% boost over animals, I can only imagine what Hunter III does. Immunity?Hunter 3 is something like 200% advantage on animals.
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 10, 2012, 07:53:06 pm
The desert of Papaynu.Incidentally, feel free to suggest names for landmarks.
The desert, at the very least, needs a name. How would one go about rendering Big-Unpleasant-Not-Wet-Place into Jivaro?
Also, I can make some generic names to be placed at your convenience.
The flatlands
Usun's Peak
Jivar Mountains
Briac's Point
Pupanya Penninsula
Pupanya Bay
Aqizzar's Teeth
Jaws of Fate
Jivaro Island
Sandsea
Landfall
The Spines of Pupnaupa
Dares' Lowlands
The Waterdirt fields
+100 more upon request
Post by: NRDL on August 11, 2012, 04:42:11 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 11, 2012, 04:55:45 am
Then we'll just have to resort to killing them all because of arbitrary genetic differences.
Post by: EuchreJack on August 11, 2012, 05:27:30 am
Post by: Maldevious on August 11, 2012, 05:56:43 am
If that translates to: Kill 'em all until we learn writing, then it has my vote.
Agree
Post by: Boksi on August 11, 2012, 08:11:25 am
I suppose I'll send out another tribe to the other side of the bay, and then build up an army to crush the Persians.
Post by: NRDL on August 11, 2012, 08:13:41 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 11, 2012, 08:16:59 am
I guess we'll attempt to expand both peacefully and by war, then.I don't recall anyone saying anything about peace, you automaton-sympathizing hippie bastard.
Post by: Boksi on August 11, 2012, 08:21:08 am
Taking unclaimed land is not technically war, no matter how badly we rape the land in search of wealth. I'm just being accurate.I guess we'll attempt to expand both peacefully and by war, then.I don't recall anyone saying anything about peace, you automaton-sympathizing hippie bastard.
Post by: A Spoony Bard on August 11, 2012, 08:56:57 am
Post by: Satarus on August 11, 2012, 10:25:31 am
Post by: Pnx on August 11, 2012, 10:58:27 am
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 11, 2012, 11:39:12 am
I'm actually worried if we're even going to be able to keep control of the city we already have. I vote that we try exploring to the east more to see if there's any good city spots along the coast there, and try to have cities all along the coast.Yeah.
I also posit we fence off our permanent borders now with a ring of cities and units to stop any forighn transgressors. Then we turtle until we have a huge advantage.
Post by: Karlito on August 11, 2012, 12:37:54 pm
I'm actually worried if we're even going to be able to keep control of the city we already have.Couldn't we, in theory, attack the Persians, burn their cities to the ground, and then settle their fertile lands with our own tribes?
Post by: Boksi on August 11, 2012, 12:52:42 pm
Totally possible.I'm actually worried if we're even going to be able to keep control of the city we already have.Couldn't we, in theory, attack the Persians, burn their cities to the ground, and then settle their fertile lands with our own tribes?
Post by: Pnx on August 11, 2012, 01:21:31 pm
I say we explore east, colonise that one spot to the west, and start working on conquering the Persians. We should also make sure our colonies are well defended, there should be at least 2 or 3 alatl's in every single one.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 11, 2012, 01:39:06 pm
However, distance is also a serious contribution to the problem.Totally possible.I'm actually worried if we're even going to be able to keep control of the city we already have.Couldn't we, in theory, attack the Persians, burn their cities to the ground, and then settle their fertile lands with our own tribes?
If all fails, we can always bribe. We have enough money for 1-3 max bribes, more if we don't just throw it around.
Post by: EuchreJack on August 12, 2012, 03:25:02 am
Post by: Boksi on August 13, 2012, 09:52:07 am
We start the update by discovering another civilization. This place is crowded!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also start preparing for a military buildup.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The new civilization to the east are the Huns, lead by Zara Yaqob.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The NSA(Neanderthal Security Agency) has done an admirable job, but its resources will be strained if we try to spy on all our foes. Let's focus on the Persians and the Huns for now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're beelining for Sedentary Lifestyle. Here's Animal Husbandry, one of the prerequisites for it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Persians have a canoe too!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A size six city is so much better than a size five, so let's try to promote some growth.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We locate the Persian capital. The Persian canoe seems to be heading west, to explore.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our other explorers are busy as well. That's a lot of cotton.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I start putting some names up. It'd help if people wanted specific places named, but I suppose even random names are better than nothing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know the vote was against it, but we had to research Slavery.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A size six city can build a lot of nice buildings that smaller cities cannot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We encounter a new civilization, Carthage, and the most bizarre leader/nation combo yet!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hello there, Huns. That's a lot of Atlatlists you've got there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our canoe follows the Persian canoe west. Although our canoe is slightly more powerful, the difference is so small as to make the outcome of battle uncertain.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Huns have a second city!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We start to dream big. We're almost at Sedentary Lifestyle! If you look at the scoreboard, neither the Aztecs nor the Persians have even researched the prerequisites for that, as seen by the techs they're researching(Mysticism and Chiefdom, respectively).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're still preparing for the buildup rather than building up, but I have a very good reason for that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The world's first great prophet has been born, it seems.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hey, where'd the Persian canoe go? Also, you can see the Persians have a second city by the shape of their borders.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We find a Carthaginian city. Its not their capital.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We've finally started our military buildup. See that bamboo armor promotion? A 20% bonus versus archery units is a great boon.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also found this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't play any further. So the question now is: Persia or Hunnia?
Post by: Shades on August 13, 2012, 10:10:18 am
Post by: Satarus on August 13, 2012, 10:22:18 am
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 13, 2012, 11:08:40 am
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 13, 2012, 11:29:33 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am
Post by: Pnx on August 13, 2012, 11:56:00 am
Anyway yesss, we're well on our way to the conquest of the persians and the huns... yesss...
Post by: Glacies on August 13, 2012, 12:43:27 pm
On the peaceful side of things, I say we should find a group to live at the great fields of cotton. This will get us many warm garments for the Jivaro people, and maybe even hats. But north holds nothing for us. Beyond the mountains and into the dry lands the men speak with ashes in their mouths and dance in prayer to gods of death. The Aztec are hollow men and spiritless, and should be driven from our lands should they approach.
Our great hunters, I feel, should seek to subdue the elephant. We should settle families of Elephants in our lands (And one day build a national elephant breeder!) so that we may feast upon them. (Also Elephant workers are only a tiny bit more expensive and work WAY faster than normal workers + gives us strong siege units all the way into late Renaissance.)
Lastly, I speak to the fellow elders of religious matters: We should take up the traditions of Druidism and enjoy the health and bounty of food it will provide. Until the spirits can be coaxed forth (Read: We found voodoo!) we should tend to their vessels.
Post by: sonerohi on August 13, 2012, 11:04:42 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 14, 2012, 02:25:34 am
Post by: NRDL on August 14, 2012, 04:10:22 am
Post by: EuchreJack on August 14, 2012, 12:21:55 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 14, 2012, 12:29:41 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 14, 2012, 02:15:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We don't have any elephants, but we do have camels.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More scouting around Carthage.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Apparently, we're fairly powerful, but so are all our neighbours.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Although we're building up our military, we can still try to expand our empire peacefully.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like the Persians have another city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since Sedentary Lifestyle obsoletes Culture (Neanderthal), we have to build as many Neanderthals as we can while we still can.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We encounter Brazil, led by Hammurabi! Also, those barbarian canoes decide to not attack us, for some reason.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Frederick doesn't intend to leave his cities undefended. Also, the Aztecs have started researching Sedentary Lifestyle, as seen on the scoreboard.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, our scouts suffer some setbacks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fucking locust swarms. Why is sending in the military the best way to defeat them, anyway? It doesn't make sense.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We continue assembling the army. Having your production center on an island is a pain.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I guess our luck with the barbarians didn't last very long. But who cares? It's just a canoe. Although I guess it is a bit significant...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After all, that canoe was the last unit to die in the Prehistoric era.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since we got to Sedentary Lifestyle before anyone else, we get a free technology! What tech do I pick?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Continuing from that, we can found a religion! Naghualism won the vote by a decent margin.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course, we can't build Neanderthal Warriors anymore. They're all in the NSA now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We can adopt Divine Cult as our Religious civic now, and Naghualism as our state religion. Or we could go research divination for Prophets. I'd rather not keep Folklore, but we can keep it if you guys really want. That means no state religion, though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, here's the tech tree:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Un67 on August 14, 2012, 02:26:37 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 14, 2012, 03:12:02 pm
We need to get to writing ASAP so we don't have to war with everyone everywhere, but it's so far away right now....
Post by: Boksi on August 14, 2012, 03:25:45 pm
I say we go for prophets, Divine Cult looks a little iffy to me. That extra unhappiness just screams rioting.What extra unhappiness? The one from non-state religions that won't even spead into our empire? The one we can build inquisitors to remove?
We need to get to writing ASAP so we don't have to war with everyone everywhere, but it's so far away right now....
Hang on, I'm gonna start up the game again to make a list of techs for comparison.
EDIT: Alright, here's the civic comparison:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for the techs?
Most of the prehistoric techs are self-explanatory - Elephant Domestication gives us elephant units, for example. Falconry gives us Trackers, who are improved Hunters. Megafauna Domestication gives us Bear Riders, amongst other things. Boat Fishing reveals pearls and sailing enables lighthouses, galleys and beacons.
Ideograms, Board Games and Oratory are prerequisite techs.
Agriculture lets us build farms, Archery lets us build archers, Caste System enables the Caste society civic, Folk Dance and Folk Music increase culture, Naval Warfare enables War Galleys, Fungiculture enables various mushroom-related buildings, Orchards reveals olives and lets us build orchards, Pottery enables granaries and potters and lets us build cottages, Apiculture enables apiaries, Priesthood lets us build temples, The Wheel gives us better roads, Candle Making speeds up workers, Mining reveals various gemstones and lets us build mines, Fermentation lets us build a bunch of buildings, Ancestor Worship increases culture a bit, Dualism would normally found Zoroastrianism, and Divination enables Prophets and the Oracle.
Post by: ed boy on August 14, 2012, 04:09:37 pm
Post by: LordSlowpoke on August 14, 2012, 04:16:01 pm
These best be sacrificed.
Also, beeline to whatever's going to give us a library. Isn't that the best SCIENCE! boosting building in the era? I don't even know.
Post by: Karlito on August 14, 2012, 04:21:05 pm
Post by: Bluerobin on August 14, 2012, 04:24:27 pm
Realistically Orchards or something researchy/sciency would probably be better, but I just have a really hard time not suggesting we domesticate what looks like bears, rhinos, and velociraptors (probably actually some sort of big bird) among other things in the icons.
Post by: Neonivek on August 14, 2012, 04:25:48 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 14, 2012, 04:33:01 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 14, 2012, 04:40:00 pm
Holy cities still generate money for every religious city, right?
Post by: Boksi on August 14, 2012, 04:59:50 pm
I like prophets still because Great people and also MONEY!Yeah. But remember, we can only found one religion. Them's the rules, y'know.
Holy cities still generate money for every religious city, right?
Post by: Neonivek on August 14, 2012, 05:06:03 pm
I like prophets still because Great people and also MONEY!Yeah. But remember, we can only found one religion. Them's the rules, y'know.
Holy cities still generate money for every religious city, right?
Yes because no civilisation has EVER founded more then one major religion EVER!
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 14, 2012, 08:03:00 pm
Looking at you, Jerusalem.I like prophets still because Great people and also MONEY!Yeah. But remember, we can only found one religion. Them's the rules, y'know.
Holy cities still generate money for every religious city, right?
Yes because no civilisation has EVER founded more then one major religion EVER!
But anyways, if we spread Naghulism we can get enough money to make economics irrelevant. And we can net some allies, if they get our religion as their state.
Post by: NRDL on August 14, 2012, 11:42:27 pm
Post by: Satarus on August 15, 2012, 07:33:21 am
Looking at you, Jerusalem.I like prophets still because Great people and also MONEY!Yeah. But remember, we can only found one religion. Them's the rules, y'know.
Holy cities still generate money for every religious city, right?
Yes because no civilisation has EVER founded more then one major religion EVER!
They got around that restriction by getting their holy city razed by the Babylonians and then built a brand new city over top the ruins of the old one. :D
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 15, 2012, 11:33:25 am
Also, this mod doesn't now it's plurals. (Domuses, Insulas, and quite a lot of others.)
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 15, 2012, 01:49:24 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 15, 2012, 01:50:41 pm
We should have the ability to make multiple holy cities. Maybe you get a Great Prophet, and he can make any city a holy one, but he only lasts for three turns or so?You'll have to discuss that with the mod makers, not me. They're still trying to balance religions.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 16, 2012, 11:18:16 am
Anyways posting to watch.
Post by: Neonivek on August 16, 2012, 11:30:24 am
Can I say that I love you guys and want to have your children? Not your babies though, too high maintance.
Anyways posting to watch.
Dang child stealers
Post by: Boksi on August 18, 2012, 10:28:58 am
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Divine Cult is in the lead, so I revolt to that. Also, since we're sedentary now, we can upgrade our gatherers to workers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Once we've established the Divine Cult, we can convert to Naghualism. Wait, shouldn't it be the other way around?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We encounter Gilgamesh of the Maori Empire
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also research the first technology necessary for Bear Riders: Elephant Domestication. We don't have any elephants, but then again we captured fire without capturing fire.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile our tribe has made its way to its destination, settling our fourth city. And we can call it a city because we're sedentary now!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aberpanapopuma has huge borders.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aw, not again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We train a Huron Manlet. As far as I can tell, it's a log ram that can defend itself better. Kind of underwhelming as far as unique units go.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aberpanapopuma has grown enough to support a tannery. Soon we'll be building units both MP4 and Aberpanapopuma.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, our scouting hunter swoops in and captures an unguarded Brazilian gatherer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This isn't much of an update, but I wanted to reassure people that this isn't dead.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 18, 2012, 07:33:25 pm
woohoo!
Post by: Boksi on August 18, 2012, 07:42:57 pm
We have our fourth city! Well on the way to the sprawling enemy-capturing-and-sacrificing empire we're meant to be! Except that I don't think you can actually capture or sacrifice units... so, yeah.Can't capture or sacrifice units without slavery, and Barter beat Slavery in the vote.
woohoo!
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 18, 2012, 08:36:43 pm
Anyhow, I say we work on expansion almost exclusively, then switch over to fortification, and then start churning out science like there's mo tomorrow. I call it my five-era-plan.
Post by: Bluerobin on August 18, 2012, 10:28:32 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 18, 2012, 10:34:26 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 21, 2012, 04:18:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hilariously enough, it appears that the only Hunnic units that survived the attack were some Hunters and a Scout - presumably because they attacked last, since Hunters have a city attack penalty. They all attack our Hunter, and don't even manage to scratch him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A little while later, we discover Equine Domestication.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Brazilians organize what might be a counterattack. I don't plan on sticking around to see if it is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The AI really loves Atlatlists. Nearly all the units in this picture are Atlatlists. It makes sense, since they're Strength 4 when almost every other unit is Strength 3. The Atl-atl is an archery unit, but it's actually part of the "skirmisher" line of archery units, and gains bonuses against other archers. They can upgrade into bowmen, becoming mainline archery units, or they can upgrade into javelinists, who are the next tier of skirmishers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The people of Popumayapan have started building shelters made entirely out of snow. Seems a bit silly to me, shelters are there to keep out snow, plus they'll melt in the summer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And now, the moment we've all been waiting for... Megafauna Domestication!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We can build bear riders now, right? Nope, we need to build training buildings first. Those are world wonders, so there can only be one of each.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some centuries later, the Second Violent Migration is ready. It's mostly Neanderthal Warriors and Stone Macemen. Neanderthals have native Str 4 and a free Combat I promotion, while Stone Macemen have a city attack bonus. Hopefully bamboo armor and big bonuses versus cities will be enough to defeat the Persian defenses.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, the question is, should we attack the lightly-defended Susa, or the valuable Persepolis? Should we attempt to hold Persepolis if we capture it, or burn it to the ground because it'll be too difficult to administrate and defend?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, here's a comparison of Tribal society and Caste System society.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, have the tech tree.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maldevious on August 21, 2012, 04:28:01 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 21, 2012, 04:47:42 pm
-A captured city always loses one population in the sack, regardless of whether you raze it or not. That means a city with one population is automatically razed.
-If you capture a city from another civ, and that civ still exists, it'll drive local instability right up. We didn't suffer that with the Celts because they only had one city.
-Persia has at least three cities.
Still, Persepolis is a big and wealthy city, and a holy city to boot, so capturing it would be worth it. Basically, if we just want to kill Persia, I'd suggest a direct attack on Persepolis, and to raze it to the ground. If we want to capture Persepolis, I'd suggest razing the other Persian cities first and then taking Persepolis.
Post by: Sirus on August 21, 2012, 04:52:46 pm
Post by: Frumple on August 21, 2012, 05:07:52 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 21, 2012, 05:15:33 pm
Post by: Jarod Cain on August 21, 2012, 11:47:43 pm
Capture Persepolis, but burn down Susa first. We can deal with the instability if needed.Pretty much this, it's time to civilize the Persians and place them where they belong. The bottom of our new Caste System. Let our temples run red, so that we may shake the foundations of creation.
-J-
Post by: Karnewarrior on August 22, 2012, 12:14:22 am
Let it be known that advisor Karne is certain we shall all fall down in doom and gloom, never to be seen again in history. Let it also be known that he is in favor of Crumpet thursdays and higher pay for wisemen and teachers.
Post by: EuchreJack on August 22, 2012, 12:56:06 am
This is going 100% contrary to plan.
Let it be known that advisor Karne is certain we shall all fall down in doom and gloom, never to be seen again in history. Let it also be known that he is in favor of Crumpet thursdays and higher pay for wisemen and teachers.
So it will follow the Dwarf Fortress Model. EuchreJack approves!
*EuchreJack also favors fine beer and crude humor.*
Post by: NRDL on August 22, 2012, 03:58:04 am
Post by: Frumple on August 22, 2012, 04:02:51 am
You might be thinking of civ5. I think that changed in that'un.
Post by: Aqizzar on August 22, 2012, 07:37:04 am
Um...could you place units in stacks like that in vanilla Civ 4?
In every Civ game, and for that matter pretty much every 4X game ever made, the basic rule of warfare is "how many cheap units can you converge on one tile in an unending blob?" Civ 5 decided to break away from that model to mixed results depending on who you ask.
Now I'll admit, I've never seen a stack that fucking big in Civ 4, except maybe one time when I found an AI city on a three-tile island.
Anyway, let's burn Susa to the ground and see if we can find that other city. Make sure to keep sending reinforcements up the coast.
Post by: Satarus on August 22, 2012, 07:53:13 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 22, 2012, 08:22:37 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 22, 2012, 01:06:58 pm
Also, when can we build a Hero? Heroes are awesome.
Also, are you playing with cities retain their original culture on? While fun, it can break the game a bit if you conquer lot's of 1 city former barbarian civilizations. (You get lots of different cultures, giving you a serious benefit.)
Post by: Neonivek on August 22, 2012, 01:10:54 pm
To be fair, Caveman to Cosmos gives a pretty nice bonus for surrounding you enemy. (Surrounding on 3 tiles something of 40%, so a complete blockade might be the thing you need.)
Also, when can we build a Hero? Heroes are awesome.
Also, are you playing with cities retain their original culture on? While fun, it can break the game a bit if you conquer lot's of 1 city former barbarian civilizations. (You get lots of different cultures, giving you a serious benefit.)
Nowhere close. The prehistoric Era all leads to the classical era with the first building that was actually in the base game.
Post by: Korbac on August 22, 2012, 06:12:08 pm
Um...could you place units in stacks like that in vanilla Civ 4?In every Civ game, and for that matter pretty much every 4X game ever made, the basic rule of warfare is "how many cheap units can you converge on one tile in an unending blob?"
In theory, this is counterbalanced by the fact that those with many weaker stacks can cover more land, but all that usually results in is the weaker stacks initially taking more ground, and then getting smashed piecemeal by the deathstack, which accrues massive xp bonuses.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on August 22, 2012, 07:47:03 pm
Post by: Satarus on August 23, 2012, 07:36:19 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 23, 2012, 07:46:00 am
Another usefull things is the mechanic of combat promisions, which gives random promotions to units surviving against the odds.
Post by: Boksi on August 23, 2012, 11:51:41 am
Post by: Donuts on August 23, 2012, 01:01:52 pm
Post by: Korbac on August 23, 2012, 06:25:18 pm
when you're playing civilizationAnd build the Taj Mahal right in Cleveland?
history becomes your creation
learn to write before you can read...
ok, I can't remember the rest of the song.
yeah, I got C2C not too long ago. it's a good mod! and the starting screen song is the best.
Post by: Satarus on August 24, 2012, 01:25:04 pm
Post by: OREOSOME on August 25, 2012, 10:27:40 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 25, 2012, 12:27:41 pm
Post by: Korbac on August 25, 2012, 12:59:55 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 26, 2012, 06:15:04 am
Now where were we? Oh yeah, we were going to kill some Persians.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the Persians apparently intend to raid our territory with a tiny force.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We discover Caste System and switch immediately. It is the just fate of those who are poor and oppressed to be poor and oppressed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh look, the Zebra Trainer! We can't actually use it until we discover Chariotry, though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our forces draw near Susa...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Huron Manlets batter down the enemy's defenses... Somehow.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The macemen then spread out while our Neanderthal Warriors prepare to attack. Those Persians don't stand a ghost of a chance!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I took quite a lot of screenshots of this battle, but it can be summed up in only two.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Suffice to say, we take Susa and raze it to the ground. We didn't have a choice to keep it, since it only had 1 population.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also start a mob of kangaroos. On a cold, swampy island.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It turns out I underestimated the Persians a bit, and several macemen die as a result.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We finish the Bison Trainer. We need to research Archery to actually use Bison Riders, though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The little Persian raiding party has reached Popumayapan. I have no worries.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Although we've sacked Susa, Frederick still reigns from his palace in Persepolis.
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The Persians attack Popumayapan, like the fools they are.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research Boat Fishing, and can finally acquire those tasty ocean resources!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Another list proclaims us as the greatest civilization upon this earth, which is really quite obvious.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our army discovers Pasargardae, a scenic town located near a mountain range, known for its large herds of horses. Will our intrepid band of violent murderhobos be able to defeat the vile Persians and burn it to the ground? Find out next time on "Let's Play Civilization IV: Caveman2Cosmos"!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I forgot to take another world map picture, so I drew one for you instead.
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaian-a-coel on August 26, 2012, 07:08:24 am
Good job for the persians! maybe you should ransack Pasargardae, and then let Fred to rot in the ruins for some time? After making him pay full-price for peace of course.
Post by: Boksi on August 26, 2012, 07:27:31 am
I like this map ^^We haven't researched diplomacy yet.
Good job for the persians! maybe you should ransack Pasargardae, and then let Fred to rot in the ruins for some time? After making him pay full-price for peace of course.
Post by: EuchreJack on August 26, 2012, 08:47:35 am
Post by: Korbac on August 26, 2012, 10:10:05 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 26, 2012, 10:38:21 am
Goddamm you missing file! Why won't you let me enjoy the game!!! XDAre you sure you're dumping it in the right mods folder. Also, you need BTS.
Try starting it up, click advanced, click mods, and see if the game recognizes it. If it doesn't, you used the wrong file.
Post by: Korbac on August 26, 2012, 10:48:15 am
It says : "Tag TECH_MINDUPLOADING in Info class war incorrect
Current XML file is: modules\MrAzure\Digital Era Buildings\Online Shippping Warehouse\OnlineShipping_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
Tried editting the spelling of the chief folder incase it was referrenced, trying now. (Nope, didn't work. Also tried editting out the line in question, no error came up, but it still didn't work. :( )
Great lp by the way, amazing stuff! :D
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 26, 2012, 12:02:00 pm
Post by: andrea on August 26, 2012, 12:51:16 pm
game still crash, but I doubt it is due to the missing file.
once in a while, the game just instantly closes, with no message at all :/
and that is excluding the black/cyan screen bug which forces me to restart the computer ( and which happens to many other game, so not mod's fault) and the several "out of memory" crashes ( which, if I understand correctly, are mod's fault, but can't really be avoided by mod creators).
a little ranting aside, thank you for making me learn of this great mod! I had a lot of fun playing to sedentary life. now it seems to crash more often , so I may have to start a new game ( and with faster speed), but it was still a great game while it lasted. I followed your example of an army of neanderthals :P
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 26, 2012, 01:32:27 pm
Post by: andrea on August 26, 2012, 01:50:02 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 26, 2012, 02:00:11 pm
EDIT:
For the other, the black/ cyan screen might be caused by a failing/overheating graphics card, and the out of memory error is caused by running out of memory. Ie, buy more RAM*.
*Shouldn't be to costly.
Post by: andrea on August 26, 2012, 02:41:27 pm
last time I cleaned fans, it reduced the black/cyan screen problem a little, for a day or 2.and that was after removing a ton of stuff ( 4 years without ever cleaning). may be the problem, but I suppose a nearly 5 years old graphic card may be part of the issue.
well, thank you for the advice!
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 26, 2012, 02:50:19 pm
Post by: andrea on August 28, 2012, 07:53:31 am
I'll try cleaning. if you never hear me again, it is because I got lost in the dust, or died from lung obstruction.
meanwhile, how is the turn going? I am curious to see if you defeated and conquered persians.
edit:I am alive! alive!! muhahaha. GPU still idles at 60+ °C however :/
Post by: FritzPL on August 28, 2012, 09:33:08 am
Post by: andrea on August 28, 2012, 09:58:06 am
a new fan may do the trick. not entirely sure of where I would place it however.
also, maybe I should get my own thread, discussion is getting long :P
Post by: Bluerobin on August 30, 2012, 03:40:12 pm
Post by: Boksi on August 30, 2012, 04:13:25 pm
However, due to issues involving ISPs and fans(the cooling kind), this LP is currently on hiatus until after the weekend. I should probably have mentioned that sooner, so sorry about that.
Post by: Shades on August 31, 2012, 03:31:10 am
edit:I am alive! alive!! muhahaha. GPU still idles at 60+ °C however :/HOLY SHIT! you'll want that knocking down, else your computer won't last long at all.
I wouldn't worry overly, a few years ago I had a card that idled at over 100c and it's 'green' temperature monitor level went up to 125.
All depends on the card. Don't forget the internal card sensors will be much higher than any heatsink or case sensors because they tend to be on chip.
Post by: Stonecutters on August 31, 2012, 06:35:53 pm
Post by: andrea on September 01, 2012, 08:49:24 am
Post by: Boksi on September 05, 2012, 02:59:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, while we're busy with the Persians, the Huns have begun encroaching upon our territory. We'll have to kill them eventually.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research Sailing and can build Galleys. Unfortunately, we can't upgrade canoes into galleys. I've started researching archery because that's a requirement for Bison Riders.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the Maori convert to Christianity.
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This Hun decides to hang around in our territory. We can't really take him on without several units thanks to his defense bonus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But on to more pleasant matters: The conquest of the Persians.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pasargadae burns. We salt the city, burn the women and rape the fields.
...Yeah, we're still getting the hang of the whole pillaging thing. Invention ain't easy, you know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh look. Now Persia is Christian too. Even though they founded Hellenism.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We finally have fish.
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I put signs on the two ruins. I'm spelling from memory so I might not spell the name correctly, but who cares about Persian names anyway? OK, Persians obviously, but they don't matter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ooh, we can build a new culture! I wonder what they can do?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In any case, this is what I'm actually going to build.
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Looks like an Aztec hunting party.
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A diverse diet is a healthy diet.
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I have a bad feeling about that chunk of Persian culture to the East. It shouldn't be there, unless...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We could build galleys now...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But let's build this instead.
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Looks like I was spot on. Damn you, Frederick! The doomstack will have to take a detour!
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I remember some people wanting to become Ambushers. I can't remember who they were so please post again, or for the first time for that matter, if you want to be named an Ambusher.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We captured these two workers during the sack of Pursegaudium and right now they're just following the army, since I don't want to send units to escort them somewhere else.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh hey, another culture that we can build!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We have sight of the new Hunnic city. It's lightly defended, so I'm going to start recruiting a second doomstack in Aberpanapopuma.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I'd just like to note that I really like this map. There's fertile land at the south coast, but mountains block most of the wind and thus moisture from the ocean and form a desert to the north of us.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well then, time to take Tarsus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That was easy. Let's end the update here, 7700 BC is a nice number. I also updated the world map! It even includes the path of the second violent migration.
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 05, 2012, 03:14:03 pm
Post by: Glacies on September 05, 2012, 05:01:16 pm
Post by: Un67 on September 05, 2012, 06:32:16 pm
Post by: Jarod Cain on September 06, 2012, 12:54:42 am
-J-
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on September 06, 2012, 09:32:27 pm
Post by: NRDL on September 07, 2012, 01:52:25 am
Post by: MaximumZero on September 07, 2012, 01:57:27 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 23, 2012, 10:02:56 pm
Post by: Boksi on September 24, 2012, 07:01:26 am
This is MetalSlimeHunt, guilt-tripping you for not updating in 16 days.Bah. You can't guilt-trip me as badly as I'm guilt-tripping myself. But my free time has really disappeared quickly after school began. If I'm not in school or doing my homwork or studying for some test, I'm busy practicing on my tuba or sleeping.
Well, I've actually got quite a bit of free time even then, but it's spread out in tiny chunks, and I prefer to do updates in one fell swoop, since it takes so long to load the game.
Bah, I'll get it done eventually.
Post by: MaximumZero on September 24, 2012, 05:51:06 pm
Post by: Zrk2 on September 25, 2012, 10:50:13 am
Post by: Boksi on September 30, 2012, 06:57:14 pm
First off, some ambushers set off for the coast.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the army regroups after the sack of Tarsus, ready to march on Persepolis.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the Huns are busy...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's a lot of atlatlists...
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And the Persians have sent another raiding party. This one is slightly more threatening.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yet another hunter dies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And we research archery! However, I'm having a lot of trouble with my screenshots. I usually take three screenshots of every event, because a lot of the time there's some error in them. This time, all three shots of the research window are failures!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Look at those shiny new archers! We got an archer for free after discovering archery, and we're definitely upgrading our guarding atlatlists into proper archers.
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The Persian raiding party destroys some roads, but I'm not worried...
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Because the army has reached Persepolis. Soon, it will be ours.
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So that's where the Hunnic tribe went, huh?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Building a stable in MP4...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We've got two new ambushers: stabs and Cain. You'll notice that the Galley there is named Galley 2 - Galley 1 was renamed Aqizzar's Galley and sent out to explore the east, but I don't have any successful screenshots of that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A part of the army stays behind and lays siege to Persepolis while the bulk of it moves to the southeast so they won't have to cross a river when attacking.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research Animal Riding. I decide to head for Agriculture next, we've put it off long enough.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Glacies and Un67 reach the shore. Cain and stabs wil get there twice as fast because they're in a galley. I decide to make them handle the Persian raiders. Also, Islam has been founded in a distant land.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Before researching Agriculture, we need Slash and Burn. I'm pretty sure we looted most of the research required from a Persian city, so it's hardly surprising that it's already done.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, we start building Culture (Cheyenne). The game doesn't distinguish between North and South American cultures. So what unique unit do the Cheyenne get?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So it's a special horse archer. How does the regular horse archer compare?
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Enough faffing about. It's time for the main dish. The conquest of Persepolis.
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I had no choice but to end my turn. The next turn, the stable in MP4 is finished. We can make Bison Riders! Yeah!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, back to the action.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And so, the once great(for a proto-agricultural civilization) settlement of Persepolis was sacked by the savage Jivaro peoples. The city was looted, the women raped and the food eaten. But they did not destroy the city - they conqured it, appointing themselves the new overlords of Persepolis and of all of Persia.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But there was someone missing. Their great chieftain, Frederick, was nowhere to be found...
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With the conquest of the Persians came knowledge of Agriculture.
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Cain and stabs have reached the shore; Glacies and Un67 were both injured in their attacks and were sent to Popumayapan to recuperate. Time for them to do what they do best!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, this asshole is hanging around Aberpanapopuma. I'll let you guys decide what to do with him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There you are, Frederick!
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The Inuksuk has been built somewhere. It's a wonder - presumably it's the first inuksuk, because an inuksuk is just a kind of artificial landmark as far as I know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Most of the ambushers are injured, but Cain is fine so I send him out to hunt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The army reaches Ecbatran. Although it has far fewer defenders, it's in a much more defensible position because I can't surround it to the extent that I could with Persepolis.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cornered at long last, Frederick had no option but to fight. Outnumbered by de Gaulle's mighty host, he nevertheless fought like a mad beast, desperate to survive, but in the end he was brought low by de Gaulle's mighty axe, cleaving his head from his shoulders. There can be only one!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So. Feel free to suggest things to research, what to do with that asshole over in Aberpanapopuma, and generally what to do now. Do we try and crush the Huns? The Aztecs? Or do we try to actually build up our economy for once? I assume you guys want to build some wonders, after all.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 30, 2012, 07:09:20 pm
If you can't rename great generals, then just kill him or something. I don't care.
Post by: Karlito on September 30, 2012, 07:12:20 pm
So, I figure we can stick the General in an army stack for a bonus, but what else is he good for? The Huns have a city right on our eastern border I see, so we'll probably have to deal with them sooner rather than later. Have we researched the ability to make peace treaties yet?
Post by: EuchreJack on September 30, 2012, 07:20:44 pm
But seriously, I think we got a while before we can initiate formal diplomacy.
I'd like to see the General used in fighting, if he can't be used for anything else.
And, Yay Update!
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on September 30, 2012, 07:22:56 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on September 30, 2012, 08:09:44 pm
Post by: Karlito on September 30, 2012, 08:45:04 pm
I say we fortify and regrow our troops beforemarching onriding bison through the huns.
Post by: Un67 on September 30, 2012, 09:22:40 pm
Post by: Boksi on September 30, 2012, 09:40:24 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 30, 2012, 10:08:55 pm
We do have several unnamed cities, right? Or cities with heathen barbarian names. How about we settle him in one of those cities, and rename that city to "The Rtiz". That way we could have Radomir Putnik on The Ritz. Or in The Ritz as the case might be, but then the pun doesn't exactly work.
Post by: FritzPL on October 01, 2012, 10:45:21 am
I say we dismiss the units or return them for retraining, get resources and then start another war with the Huns, so we can control the entire southern shore, maybe southern hemisphere.
Post by: Satarus on October 01, 2012, 11:50:23 am
Post by: Boksi on October 29, 2012, 03:24:42 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on November 03, 2012, 12:11:29 am
It was an inexplicably exciting moment in my day. Good luck with school!
Post by: EuchreJack on November 04, 2012, 11:18:06 pm
It'll get updated eventually. Like, "before Christmas" eventually. In fact, there's probably gonna be a bunch of updates in December. It's on the backburner right now though.Too busy killing me, eh? :P
Post by: Boksi on December 01, 2012, 06:39:59 pm
Rights, so where were we?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh right, we just got done crushing the entire Persian empire beneath our heel.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I believe the vote was for us to continue our march of conquest, this time heading east to defeat the Huns. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We begin our march of conquest by discovering the oven.
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Two of our ambushers, Glacies and un67 I believe, are fully healed up and are sent out to hunt. I can't be arsed to micromanage them so they just get set to auto-hunt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also start constructing a farm near Persepolis to farm mushrooms. Yum yum.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This here is our new Bison Rider. Badass, huh? No, I don't know where the helmet comes from either. I think he was just born with a face like that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One thing to note about farms: We can clear away forests and bamboo and such thanks to having researched Slash and Burn, but we don't get any hammers from clearing them.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
However, there is a bit of a workaround which I'm not sure is an exploit or not.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
stabs is ready to head out. He's set to auto-hunt like the others.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Huns have settled down, as evidenced by their building a settler instead of a tribe.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Persepolis... Is still worrying me. It's got a lot of factors contributing to its instability.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I finally get around to renaming our general. I believe the vote was two for leading a stack and one for settling him, so he's waiting for the army to roll around before marching on the Huns.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the Aztecs built Stonehenge! Damn them! I guess this is what happens when you focus on military to the exclusion of long-term economy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm currently just researching the few prehistoric techs that are left.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We finally find the Maori!
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Oh dear, I forgot to build a Riding School in MP4.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, Naghualism has spread to all our cities except the Christian Aberpanapopuma. We'll have to re-educate them someday.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The big army is ready to head east, but it's going to be a long march. You know, it feels a lot smaller after taking on Persia. Probably because it is smaller. We'll build some more troops while it' marching east.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
stabs likes his odds and decides to attack a Neanderthal sitting on a village.
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That's a lot of Atlatlists.
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We research Falconry, which is an important prerequisite for Aristocracy. Obviously. It also lets us use some of the birds we've been capturing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It also allows us to upgrade our hunters into rangers.
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Aqizzar's Galley is exploring the east. This is a new Brazilian city. It also spots another city further to the east, but all my screenshots of that one got screwed up.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Portable Shelters aren't really notable except as a prerequisite for Trade, a much more useful tech.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's the Maori capital! It's built in a swamp, just like ours! Except ours was on a swampy island and this one is just in a swamp.
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Aqizzar's Galley continues to head east.
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It appears there's a barbarian city built on those bison. Wait, did I already note that? It's been so long that I've forgotten.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've been keeping a Hunnic hunter trapped with two archers for a while now. It didn't really serve any purpose, either, I just forgot about them. Now the Huns are trying to save him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You may have noticed that we've somehow encountered the Cherokee Empire this turn. I think it's from Aqizzar's Galley encountering their culture(You can also see the third Brazilian city there).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And then we research Harpoon Making. This is the last prehistoric technology in the tech tree. Where will we go from here?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
By the way, the Cherokee just took that previously barbarian city we found.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, here's the tech tree. What should we research? I can't be arsed to detail everything, but if you're curious about a tech you can ask me what it does.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You'll get a new world map in the next update, I promise!
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 01, 2012, 06:48:36 pm
Post by: Thexor on December 01, 2012, 06:55:41 pm
Also: Yay, this isn't dead!
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 01, 2012, 07:11:08 pm
Post by: Thexor on December 01, 2012, 07:31:08 pm
See, Boksi?! This is what happens when you don't update for months! I don't even know what board games we can play! :P
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 01, 2012, 07:42:26 pm
Post by: mcclay on December 01, 2012, 07:46:32 pm
Fine, we'll just play Mesoamerican Head Ball.Only as long as we're using the Incan variant! Base game is too losing-team-gets-sacfriced heavy.
Post by: Thexor on December 02, 2012, 01:30:39 am
I'd suggest Monopoly, but I doubt we've invented currency, either. How about golf? Do we have sticks, rocks, and holes?
Post by: Shooer on December 02, 2012, 01:46:29 am
Also sign me up as a ranged unit of some sort.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on December 02, 2012, 08:19:59 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 03, 2012, 08:24:13 am
Sweet, also where do you get a working Version of C2C every version i download is missing all the files.The mainpage of the mod has it. It should work.
Certain you haven't misplaced anything, and that you're using the beyond the sword expansion?
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on December 03, 2012, 03:42:39 pm
Sweet, also where do you get a working Version of C2C every version i download is missing all the files.The mainpage of the mod has it. It should work.
Certain you haven't misplaced anything, and that you're using the beyond the sword expansion?
yep to both.
Post by: Un67 on December 03, 2012, 06:21:28 pm
Also, good to see you back :)
Post by: Boksi on December 03, 2012, 06:36:35 pm
Beeline to Masonry for the Valley of the Kings?It's good to be back.
Also, good to see you back :)
I'll hopefully have an update for you guys tomorrow. It seems to be two votes for fermentation, one for copper working and one for masonry. To be honest, copper working synergizes better with our current plan of kicking the Huns' asses so hard they'll eat and shit from the same hole, since it gives us stronger units, while masonry would require us to stop producing units to benefit from it. Although the benefits of masonry should not be underestimated - bricks will unlock a huge amount of new buildings. But we already have plenty of unbuilt buildings anyway, that's the opportunity cost of focusing on the military.
Still, I haven't done the turn yet so you guys have all night to argue.
Post by: mcclay on December 03, 2012, 07:34:32 pm
Post by: Un67 on December 03, 2012, 08:54:36 pm
Post by: Jarod Cain on December 04, 2012, 01:09:17 am
So, beat the Huns with copper working, maybe, and then go into building mode and beeline towards Masonry? Valley of the Kings is really good, I think, since it gives a free tech, but you need both the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx to build it.I agree with all of this.
We really should work on getting some megaliths up, we can't let the backwards Aztecs show us up. Sure they may have pulled some rocks together in a circle to honor their puny gods. But we were the ones who sent a team onboard a rotton log armed little more with slings into a peril that could have torn the sky. Instead they found a new land which we have tamed and conquered two of its great powers and our Great General Putnik on the Ritz is preparing to conquer a third. These deeds must be memorialized and our culture must be allowed to express its greatness. But only after we figure out how to use all these hard rocks that we keep pulling out of my mines.
-J-
Post by: Karnewarrior on December 04, 2012, 01:16:32 am
Post by: Boksi on December 04, 2012, 05:45:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Persepolis is getting more stable now. That's good news.
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Also we built another culture.
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Hey, is that a barbarian city?
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Un67 challenges a locust swarm to a knife fight.
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Meanwhile, another locust swarm shows up and eats our fences and roads. Damn locusts.
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Aqizzar discovers another barbarian city! Man, we're pretty far to the south aren't we?
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And here's yet another barbarian city!
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I'd been leaving this neanderthal alone because he was fortified on a forest and I couldn't be bothered to clear him out when there were whole civilizations to fight.
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Taste cold flint, locusts!
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Hey look, they have a penguin! We've gotta get ourselves a penguin too, someday!
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Also this is a new Aztec town or I am a small, red nut.
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Seriously far south.
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Oh hey, we've found some new neighbors! Hello Incans!
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There's been a lot of barbarian towns popping up lately.
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Lots of towns in generaly been popping up lately.
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We finally get this myth.
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Another wonder built before we could get our grubby mitts on it! Admittedly it's just a culture, but it's a culture we could have gotten! Oh well. I didn't think to get a screenshot of the civilopedia entry for it or its unique unit, so we know nothing about it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The problem with exploring jungles is that you can't see things that are far away because the trees get in the way.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh hey, another Cherokee town!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...And another target.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're the strongest, and everybody knows it!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Especially now that we can build beehives and get honey! No mead until fermentation though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh dear.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ooh, eggs. Screw hens, let's domesticate emus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've been training some rangers to use as scouts. This is why:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, this is just the perfect standoff pose, isn't it?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Man, those Huns have a lot of resources near their capital. I count deer, corn, obsidian, bison, horses and clams in workable distance, and there's grapes and fine clay nearby too.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the army has finally assembled in Aberpanapopuma. It's big and mean and it's going to stomp all over the Huns.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And from the looks of it, we've got six towns' worth of stomping to do.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, I build a tiny bit of infrastructure.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Putnik on the Ritz is assigned to lead our stack and especially MaximumZero, who will hopefully turn into a badass city-clearer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, the year 6900 BC dawns. We make three important discoveries. First, the technology of orchards. Our fruit picking improvements will now upgrade into orchards.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We also learn of one new city...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...And one possible city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, I want to make this clear: Our current government civic can support up to six cities. Beyond that, we start racking up 3 unhappiness for each city over the limit. We currently have five cities, so we could take the Hunnic capital without unhappiness penalties. But I'm fairly sure large empires suffer instability penalties. I'm not sure what will happen if we take Szeged. But we will have another big city at least. So do we capture Szeged, or burn it to the ground with the rest of them?
Finally, have a new world map!
Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)
Oh, and also a list of world leaders.
Spoiler: World Leaders (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2012, 06:20:49 pm
Post by: Boksi on December 04, 2012, 06:29:43 pm
Oh look, Fermentation leads to Copper Working. I told you all we needed to get drunk before we made any serious advances as a civilization, but no, nobody listens to MetalSlimeHunt. Once you get Copper Working we need to get rid of the Huns. We deserve their land anyway.Actually, if you look closely you can see that the arrow actually goes under Fermentation rather than coming from it. I don't have the Civilopedia open, but it looks like the prerequisites are actually Archery and Mining. Although given how complex this mod is it probably has half a dozen prerequisite technologies.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2012, 06:37:23 pm
Post by: Thexor on December 04, 2012, 07:14:42 pm
If not, seize the Hunnic capital (holy resources Batman!), and burn everything else. The potential irony of razing the Hun's cities should not be missed!
Post by: mcclay on December 05, 2012, 12:38:52 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 05, 2012, 12:41:50 am
Post by: Karlito on December 05, 2012, 12:46:58 am
Post by: Jarod Cain on December 05, 2012, 02:19:29 am
-J-
Post by: Karnewarrior on December 05, 2012, 02:48:49 am
Vassalage would be nice, but instead we must seize their capitol and raise the rest. Shame as their cities would make a nice consolidated section of territory to call our own. Maybe build a series of forts, a line of magiont maybe eventually staffed with rangers to keep an eye on things and to keep barbarians and others from settling in lands claimed by the mighty Jivaro. Also, at some point in the future we need to take those barbarian's penguin.The war of the penguin will be swift, feirce, and shrill with the cries of women and non-flying birds.
-J-
Post by: Satarus on December 19, 2012, 11:02:26 am
Post by: Boksi on December 31, 2012, 10:13:43 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, we explore the territory of the Navajo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And find that last Hunnic city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Huns continue to retreat south, but we'll catch them eventually.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
See what I mean? Several of our bison riders have enough movement to attack. I also have one move southeast to give us a flanking bonus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More exploration...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That is a lot of animals.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Cherokee appear to have some lingering barbarian troubles.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And now it's time to kill some more Huns. I send out the bison riders who fought last turn to do some flanking, then bombard the city, then attack.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We all know what happens next, don't we?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Glacies shoots at a white rhinoceros with his invisible bow! And he actually subdues the beast, too.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Remember that horde of animals I mentioned earlier?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can't use a subdued animal on the same turn that it's captured, so on this turn I have it create the myth of the unicorn. Narwhals can also create this myth. It gives you no science but doesn't go obsolete with writing either.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, Aberpanapopuma has become unhappy. I must fix this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Good thing that animal horde was closest to Aberpanapopuma.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh look, a new Brazilian city!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh look, a new Cherokee city!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's some Hunnic stragglers at our borders, but they present no threat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We make a huge leap forward in abstract thought.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh hey, looks like the Carthaginians and the Navajo don't like each other very much.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, we got a pig.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm still building more military units. I have a feeling we'll need them to tackle the Huns.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also realize that there is a way to increase stability that I had forgotten! Capital punishment! I'll build it immediately in Persepolis, since that city is in a precarious position stability-wise.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Cherokee are a coastal folk.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Glacies tries his luck again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, a picture of the Hunnic empire. This is what we must destroy.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
With that all said, happy new year! I'll be giving you another update sometime next year.
Post by: Karnewarrior on December 31, 2012, 10:47:46 am
Post by: Aqizzar on January 01, 2013, 10:25:56 pm
Quote
Somehow making a big pit full of snakes and organizing a boxing match with a kangaroo makes the inhabitants happy.
Man, it would be weird if that didn't make the inhabitants happy. Mortal man born of god died for our sins? Lame, c'mon let's go watch a dude get his ass kicked by a wallaby.
And oh isn't that ironic, the Jivaro are the folks actually doing the crucifying. Doesn't that just make a really uncomfortable sort of sense. Well, good to see our mighty empire is still kicking the wicked barbarian style into the Mesolithic era.
Post by: Karlito on January 02, 2013, 08:46:35 pm
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 02, 2013, 09:02:54 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on January 02, 2013, 09:18:09 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 02, 2013, 09:32:27 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 03, 2013, 04:03:06 am
Post by: Un67 on January 05, 2013, 06:27:30 pm
Post by: Satarus on January 08, 2013, 12:57:45 pm
Post by: Zrk2 on January 13, 2013, 02:43:54 pm
Post by: TomatoWalrus on January 18, 2013, 01:17:04 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 22, 2013, 12:03:23 am
Post by: MaximumZero on April 22, 2013, 12:22:49 am
SO HOW ABOUT THEM UPDATES, HUH? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO SCHEDULES WITH YOU KIDS. BACK IN MY DAY...Yeah! Back in MY day...
Post by: Frumple on April 22, 2013, 12:24:19 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on April 22, 2013, 12:24:37 am
qɐɔʞ ıu ɯʎ pɐʎ!SO HOW ABOUT THEM UPDATES, HUH? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO SCHEDULES WITH YOU KIDS. BACK IN MY DAY...Yeah! Back in MY day...
Post by: Man of Paper on April 22, 2013, 12:50:21 am
बचक इन मय दय...qɐɔʞ ıu ɯʎ pɐʎ!SO HOW ABOUT THEM UPDATES, HUH? WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO SCHEDULES WITH YOU KIDS. BACK IN MY DAY...Yeah! Back in MY day...
(That's sanskrit for Back in my day. Do I win?)
Post by: Karlito on April 22, 2013, 01:36:09 am
Post by: Boksi on April 22, 2013, 05:25:34 am
Post by: Jarod Cain on April 23, 2013, 11:24:35 pm
-J-
Post by: Boksi on May 12, 2013, 01:00:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, we prepare for the siege of Madara. There's two atlatlists outside the city which we don't want fortifying inside it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sadly, the Huns have upgraded some of their units to archers. It's going to make taking their cities somewhat harder. We can still do it, I'm sure, but it's slightly more difficult.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news, our scout reveals a barbarian city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And another one spots a Navajo settler.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damn locusts, I'll cut ya.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A quick reminder of the current extent of the Hunnic empire.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Persepolis is finally stable, but for some reason our financial situation is bad and that's causing our empire to become unstable. Maybe it's because we don't really have any finances per se. We haven't invented them yet.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, time to raze Madara.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, and Carthage has formally converted to Mesopotamism, along with the Maori. Why are the Maori Mesopotamists? Maybe they want to curry favor with Carthage? Or is it because they're led by Gilgamesh?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aqizzar's Galley continues on exploring. We're starting to see improvements in Cherokee lands, so we must be nearing the core of their empire.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, Cain takes a risk.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, another Hunnic settler! We'll have to kill it sometime.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's a limit to how many bison riders we can train, and we've almost reached it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah, that's the Cherokee capital alright.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We finally research pottery! No longer are we limited to porous baskets and crude vessels, we can fashion pots and stuff. This is one of the first techs in vanilla Civilization and we've only just researched it, after more than five hundred turns! This also enables cottages. I haven't really been planning out improvements or specializing towns but I'll probably build some near the capital.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You know, it would make sense for the Maori to try to curry favor with Carthage, because they're both neighbors with the Navajo. And the Maori don't look like they have good relations with the Navajo. Isn't Nambé a Maori city name?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, there's a Hunnic canoe near our cities. It's an annoyance and therefore it must die.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like the Inca have built a second city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aqizzar fights a bunch of crocodiles, armed with nothing but sticks and stones and his manly chin. Other people take note of these events that are happening on the other side of the continent.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, we get a dry-land scout to explore Cherokee lands.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't really show any of the boring preparation, but we're about to take another Hunnic city. As you can see, they are almost completely surrounded. They have a large stack two tiles to the south-east, but it won't reach the city this turn, and next turn we'll attack and raze the place.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More exploration happens. Looks like Mesopotamism spread to the Maori capital. Perhaps through a random event?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, time to take Pliska. You know the drill. The Huns move to save their city, but they're too late to do anything.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After that, I decide to push onwards and attack the too-slow reinforcements as well. The odds are good, after all.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And with that, this update is over. Who knows what will happen next? One thing is certain: This LP will continue.
Post by: Thexor on May 12, 2013, 01:48:40 pm
Also, glad to see this LP is still alive!
Post by: Zrk2 on May 12, 2013, 07:49:34 pm
Post by: Satarus on May 15, 2013, 12:06:24 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2013, 02:10:08 pm
Post by: Un67 on May 15, 2013, 03:41:58 pm
Out of curiosity, though, have you updated to the newest version?
Post by: Boksi on May 15, 2013, 04:27:37 pm
Awesome! :)Nope. No updates since this LP began. I dunno if the saves are compatible, and even if they are, I can't be arsed to download such a big file right now, nor figure out all the new mechanics - I still don't understand all the old ones. I wouldn't be surprised if using old saves with the new mechanics would somehow break some of them, anyway. I'll probably update after I finish this LP.
Out of curiosity, though, have you updated to the newest version?
Post by: kaian-a-coel on May 15, 2013, 04:54:30 pm
We have herbs. Herbal Tea!Quick, put these in bags and throw it at your opponent!
That's how you "teabag" someone, right?
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 21, 2013, 06:18:04 am
2. Is there anything we watchers need to decide?
Post by: Boksi on May 21, 2013, 08:36:42 am
1. Is the title accurate?1: Yes. Slow updates are better than no updates at all.
2. Is there anything we watchers need to decide?
2: Nothing you need to, but if you want to see something feel free to ask for it.
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on May 21, 2013, 03:33:33 pm
Looks like you'll force me to get back into Civ IV... damn you! My sleep schedule weeps.
Post by: Boksi on May 24, 2013, 06:31:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Seriously. Why the hell?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, our soldiers rest in the ruins of Pliska. It counts as friendly territory and will remain as such as long as we have troops there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Actually catching that hunnic settler would be difficult, but we can at least prevent it from settling anywhere.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And we discover fungiculture, the last prerequisite for fermentation. We've almost got booze - it's so close I can taste it. It's an imaginary taste of something we don't even know exists yet, but I can taste it anyway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Inca have three cities, it seems. Also, they have a unique unit!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see here how Aqizzar's Galley, badly damaged after his fights with several crocodiles, has claimed a stretch of water. So long as we have a unit stationed there, it will remain ours. It'll speed up his healing quite a bit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've decided to build some Atlatlists. They'll be deadly against archers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're still acquiring myths. They'll speed our research up a bit, I guess.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, have a picture of the Cherokee empire. They're pretty damn big.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Remember that Hunnic settler?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We can't have that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fortunately for us, they move.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, not all of our soldiers are geared towards killing archers in particular.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, he managed to scratch that archer at least. I'll send Geen too, if he fails then he'll hopefully have weakened the archer enough for the bison riders to take him out next turn.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, we're almost ready to take another Hunnic town. This one's a tough cookie, situated on a hill with plenty of archers. Still, we can take it, I'm sure.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
One last thing to note: The inhabitants of Aberpanapopuma get religion. Not that stupid Christianity bull, but proper Naghualism, which as we all know is infinitely better.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, time to take Veliki Preslav.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But ultimately, the sack of Veliki Preslav was an unimportant event. Something far more important to the development of our nation is brewing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And as for what happens next? I think we all know what's going to happen next. But that's for the next update.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on May 24, 2013, 06:37:16 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 24, 2013, 08:04:38 pm
Quote
Fermenation
Reveals: Sausage
Leads to: Piracy
Best technology ever?
Post by: Boksi on May 25, 2013, 04:40:48 pm
EDIT: Oh yeah, and should we destroy that Aztec town? On one hand, it's actually causing them unhappiness and it's completely useless. On the other hand, it's really close to our own towns.
Post by: Un67 on May 25, 2013, 04:59:25 pm
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 25, 2013, 05:12:30 pm
1: Yes. Slow updates are better than no updates at all.They're a bit hard to tell apart at times, though.
Quote
2: Nothing you need to, but if you want to see something feel free to ask for it.Hm, poorly phrased.
What technologies do we have access to research? Mining's probably good, then we can be proper dwarves or something like that, but I'd like to hear anyway.
By the way, do you think Persepolis should stay Persepolis? I think it needs a new name. And so does Szeged, once we capture it.Which civilization are we, again?
Quote
EDIT: Oh yeah, and should we destroy that Aztec town? On one hand, it's actually causing them unhappiness and it's completely useless. On the other hand, it's really close to our own towns.Burn and pillage and all that stuff, just the usual. Just not in that order.
Post by: Satarus on May 28, 2013, 12:52:29 pm
Post by: Boksi on June 07, 2013, 08:04:48 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That just means we've got two small cities to destroy. Easy enough.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So how ab- HOLY SHIT THAT IS ALOT OF CROCODILES
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Uh, so anyway, since we're going to crush the Huns pretty soon, I've decided to switch the efforts of the Neanderthal Security Agency towards Brazil.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, we've got a bunch of soldiers near Tlacopan, let's destroy it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Cherokee are the founders of Christianity. Now, thanks to our scouts, we know what the hell they were smoking when they came up with it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, let's not waste anymore time. Time to kill some Huns.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In unrelated news, the Aztecs have pack llamas. They're upgraded workers - we could probably upgrade our workers too, if we had llamas, donkeys or elephants.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh no. Oh nooooo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the Navajo and the Maori continue fighting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And MaximumZero levels up. I feel there is only one possible pick.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We've got booze!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I've built a galley in Persepolis to deal with the pesky barbarian canoe hanging about.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks like the Maori just destroyed Nambé.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, since I have troops in the area, I might as well revisit an old foe.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh! Look what our scout just spotted! Another Aztec city. Or the borders of one, at any rate.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, our soldiers near Sofia have healed up and are ready to assault it. There's only two units guarding it, so I have no worries.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And at long last, we discover the art of digging up things that are buried under rocks instead of just dirt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It lets us build a gold mine in our capital. Hooray.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
However, more importantly, it allows this...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So with that said, I think it's time to wrap this update up. First off, have a screenshot of the known world. It's big and full of labels. A far cry from back when we were stuck on a tiny cold swampy island.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So what will happen to our interpid band of murderhobos next? Will they take Szeged, or will disaster befall them? Find out in the next action-packed episode of Let's Play Civilization IV: Civilization2Cosmos!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note: I'll be going to Sweden in a few hours and staying there for a week, so don't expect any updates before I get back. Once we crush the Huns once and for all I'll make a special status update post so you people can know what our situation is.
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 07, 2013, 10:48:51 pm
Anyways, are there Miner units? If so, make a few and call them Urist. All of them. Then have them mine or something by Mt. Armok.
Post by: Zrk2 on June 08, 2013, 03:11:03 am
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 08, 2013, 04:14:59 pm
Are we living in Australia?IC? It's too wet and volcanic*.
OOC? I dunno, not all of us.
*One of the reasons Australia is so barren is the fact that there hasn't been any volcanic activity there for...a hundred million years at the latest sites, IIRC.
Post by: Aqizzar on June 09, 2013, 06:13:06 pm
Oh no. Oh nooooo.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I died doing what I loved. Wrasslin' sea monsters on a distant shore. Never 5get my friends.
I love that our post-neanderthal civilization is like halfway to conquering the world before we've even mastered recurve bows or the keystone arch.
Post by: Karlito on June 09, 2013, 06:38:35 pm
Post by: FritzPL on June 10, 2013, 10:39:42 am
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2013, 10:41:57 am
Post by: Satarus on June 11, 2013, 10:56:54 am
Post by: Boksi on June 17, 2013, 05:44:37 am
EDIT: Whoops, looks like there won't be an update this week. Might be on next sunday at the earliest.
Post by: Boksi on July 12, 2013, 07:01:21 am
Oh yes, we were about to destroy the Hunnic civilization.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the Aztecs continue making a nuisance of themselves.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still, we've got a big army, it's not like we can't crush those little outposts. But should we, or should we let them drain the Aztecs' resources? They won't be productive until the Aztecs get a better government. But more on that later.
We caught a tiger! That's a new type of animal, we haven't gotten the myth of the tiger yet.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Let's get down to business.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now that we're done with all this killing, what do we have?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And we mustn't forget to take note of the beautiful words that show up near the top of the screen...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, we've got this guy. We need to do something with him.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This update is a bit of a short one, but we've ended on a good point in my opinion. Tomorrow I will be doing a status update that will cover the situation of our empire and the world as a whole. Please ask any questions you'd like an answer for now.
Do Zapotec or Nootka unlock any neat units or heroes?This is a good question, and it's one I'll be answering in the status update.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 12, 2013, 01:42:17 pm
Post by: Boksi on July 13, 2013, 05:11:39 pm
Post by: Descan on July 14, 2013, 01:34:04 am
It feels a little... wrong, to do it. But I guess what matters more? Stability or keeping with our awesome island?
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 14, 2013, 05:21:31 am
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 14, 2013, 10:31:13 am
Log rams have no animations whatsoever. The maceman just walks up to them whacks them a bit, possibly gets hit by their psychic powers or something, and then walks away. They also have no available promotions at start, which is why they're glowing blue.And here I thought they were glowing blue because of their psychic powers.
Quote
And we mustn't forget to take note of the beautiful words that show up near the top of the screen...Yup, it's a good thing that our stone maceman got City Raider III.
Have you thought about movin the capital to the mainland and getting less "OMAHGAWDWE'REACOLONY" instability?Sounds like a plan.
It feels a little... wrong, to do it. But I guess what matters more? Stability or keeping with our awesome island?
Post by: Boksi on July 14, 2013, 06:35:22 pm
Mayapanpenponpu, our glorious capital
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aberpanapopuma, once Celtic, now Jivaro.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pumayapan, our holy city!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Popumayapan, our smallest city.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Persepolis, taken from the Persians, holy city of Hellenism.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Szeged, our newest conquest. Has lots of resources.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have no idea why our financial trouble is the chief cause of our empire's instability, seeing as our finances seem just fine to me. Maybe we're having trouble with them because we haven't invented them yet?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, let's consider our
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The most immediate threat is the Aztecs. Damn those annoying lime green bastards.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our newest neighbors are the Brazilians, led by Hammurabi.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Further east are the Cherokee, who seem fairly dangerous, having taken at least one barbarian city already.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To the north of the Cherokee are the Inca, led by Julius Caesar. We can pretty much ignore them.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To the west of the Inca are the Maori, led by Gilgamesh. They're fighting a lot with the Navajo.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Speaking of the Navajo, they're to the northwest of the Maori.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, to the west of the Navajo and to the north of the Aztecs, we have the Carthaginians. Amazingly, they're led by Hannibal of Carthage.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Next is a quick rundown of our current civics.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In case you're wondering what slavery does, it's this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's a list of currently constructed world wonders, as well as the top 5 cities of the world.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We've built a couple of cultures, so let's see what units they make available. First off, the Caribs.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cheyenne.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Huron.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, the Zapotec, which we'll finish building soon.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally, let's have a look at the tech tree.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Do Zapotec or Nootka unlock any neat units or heroes?You've already seen the Zapotec, but as for the Nootka...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Have you thought about movin the capital to the mainland and getting less "OMAHGAWDWE'REACOLONY" instability?It's entirely up to you guys whether we do it or not. I did state right there in the OP that I'd be playing according to your whims. While being a colony does cause instability, it's entirely solvable with a big enough garrison.
It feels a little... wrong, to do it. But I guess what matters more? Stability or keeping with our awesome island?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Descan on July 14, 2013, 07:25:48 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 14, 2013, 09:18:44 pm
I say we keep Mayapanpenponpu our capitol. Did the Romans move their capitol because Rome wasn't in the center of the empire? No! Because it was fucking Rome! Mayapanpenponpu shall be the capital for all time, the gem of the world....and eventually, the galaxy.
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 14, 2013, 10:03:13 pm
I say we keep Mayapanpenponpu our capitol. Did the Romans move their capitol because Rome wasn't in the center of the empire? No! Because it was fucking Rome! Mayapanpenponpu shall be the capital for all time, the gem of the world....and eventually, the galaxy.
we need to make cities on the glacier in order to make our capitol be in the center of the empire
WHO'S WITH MEEEEEEE
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 15, 2013, 12:56:30 pm
Post by: Glacies on July 15, 2013, 01:15:02 pm
Ahem.
Yeah. Stability would be near perfect if we moved the capital there, I reckon. If we plan to completely expand over the entirety of the continent we'll need to put our palace on the mainland. If we're to expand onto a second whole continent we should hold off on building the forbidden palace until we've secured the center of our next continent. I realize this is really far ahead, but it's worth it, I assure you. Also rename Persepolis and Szmegma to something more appropriate. Smepaponpumpu, Perpaponpanpu, Peponpunpanpu?
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 15, 2013, 02:44:00 pm
Also rename Persepolis and Szmegma to something more appropriate. Smepaponpumpu, Perpaponpanpu, Peponpunpanpu?
Ponpanpun. Ponpunponpan. Ponpanponpunpon. Ponponponponponponpunandpon.
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on July 15, 2013, 02:56:22 pm
Also rename Persepolis and Szmegma to something more appropriate. Smepaponpumpu, Perpaponpanpu, Peponpunpanpu?
Ponpanpun. Ponpunponpan. Ponpanponpunpon. Ponponponponponponpunandpon.
I do believe it is time to explore the meaning and significance of our ancestral mountains, and then assign names to cities to represent their values and virtues.
Does Pon stand for Honour and Victory? Then a military city, or one where great combat has happened, will be at least PonPon.
What do you think, folks?
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 15, 2013, 03:58:38 pm
Also rename Persepolis and Szmegma to something more appropriate. Smepaponpumpu, Perpaponpanpu, Peponpunpanpu?
Ponpanpun. Ponpunponpan. Ponpanponpunpon. Ponponponponponponpunandpon.
I do believe it is time to explore the meaning and significance of our ancestral mountains, and then assign names to cities to represent their values and virtues.
Does Pon stand for Honour and Victory? Then a military city, or one where great combat has happened, will be at least PonPon.
What do you think, folks?
pon for honour and victory?
oh boy the implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g)
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on July 15, 2013, 04:10:32 pm
pon for honour and victory?
oh boy the implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g)
...what did I just watch o.O
Post by: LordSlowpoke on July 15, 2013, 04:14:44 pm
pon for honour and victory?
oh boy the implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g)
...what did I just watch o.O
the reason pon will not stand for honour and victory
it will stand for "oh god i'm on drugs" instead
objections?
Post by: Thexor on July 15, 2013, 04:22:02 pm
pon for honour and victory?
oh boy the implications (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g)
...what did I just watch o.O
the reason pon will not stand for honour and victory
it will stand for "oh god i'm on drugs" instead
objections?
For this civilization? I'm pretty sure we can use the same word for both "honour" and "heavily drugged".
Post by: Boksi on July 17, 2013, 12:15:24 pm
Well, I'm not gonna call it just yet. Just a reminder, Mayapanpenponpu was named such because the name couldn't be longer.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on July 19, 2013, 05:04:44 pm
Post by: Karnewarrior on July 28, 2013, 02:17:45 pm
PonShen, perhaps. PonpuNez, maybe?
Post by: Satarus on August 27, 2013, 12:39:14 pm
Also get stargazing. Get those tech buildings early for the long march to monarchy.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on August 27, 2013, 12:41:57 pm
Post by: Toaster on December 03, 2013, 12:31:38 pm
No, this isn't a bump. Why do you ask?
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 03, 2013, 01:14:12 pm
Post by: LordSlowpoke on December 03, 2013, 01:16:01 pm
/me hammers thread incessantly
Post by: Boksi on December 03, 2013, 08:09:47 pm
Why no sir, this is a bump.Stop it, you'll scratch the paint!
/me hammers thread incessantly
I'll see if I can't get an update out before next year. I had a slight hard drive failure but I'm pretty sure the saves and the mod are still okay. I just haven't bothered to reinstall Civ 4 because of school.
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 04, 2013, 09:55:53 am
2 votes for moving the capital, 3 votes against. 1 vote for researching stargazing.
Well, I'm not gonna call it just yet. Just a reminder, Mayapanpenponpu was named such because the name couldn't be longer.
Initiating in-character mode:
---
What are we still discussing this for? We are Jivaro! Conquest is in our blood!
We have brought oblivion to the Celts, the Persians and the Huns alike!
We have expanded from our small poor island beneath the boot of the world to standing atop the throne of dominance!
We have broken the Neanderthals to our will and made them the tip of our spear!
We of course shall move our capital! So what if Rome didn't? Do you want to follow those weaklings? Broken under the weight of their arrogance and fear of expansion.
With change comes stability.
With stability comes surplus garrisons, to conquer our enemies!
With stability comes industrial development, to arm our military!
With stability comes scientific discoveries, to find ever better ways of crushing our enemies
With stability comes cultural advancement, to tell our foes what awaits them so they may know despair!
We will progress ever onward and upward to spread across the world and then turn our attention to the planets above and the stars beyond!
We shall not stop until the heavens burn with the name Jivaro!
So I ask of you, shall we cower from greatness like all others, or shall we make it ours?
What say you?
---
Ending in-character mode:
So put me down for moving the capital please.
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 04, 2013, 05:00:18 pm
As soon as Copper Working is done Metal Casing opens and after that's done Bronze Working opens immediately.
Bronze Working gives us units but more importantly we can upgrade to Despotism.
Limit of 10 cities before getting a penalty and the penalty is 2 unhappiness instead of 3, plus 30% maintenance increase for distance, number and overseas cities instead of 50% maintenance increase for those, plus a 25% bonus to military production.
So yeah...
[Disclaimer: At least on my copy]
Post by: BishopX on December 04, 2013, 07:50:37 pm
Also, you can't have too many free tech wonders.
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 04, 2013, 09:21:18 pm
The Aztecs are far north across deserts and marsh, while the Brazilians are within a daggers throw of the Cherokee heartland. With any luck they'll fight each other with the barbarians attacking the Cherokee constantly.
OK:
1. Move the capital to Aberpanapopuma, it's our largest city and near the center of our empire.
2. Research Bronze Working for Despotism. Massive. massive benefits, little drawbacks.
3. Research Candle Making & Oil Lamps, 25% bonus to workers each.
4. Research The Wheel, now we can make mud paths, 1/2 cost for movement over mud paths and our workers will be building them like lightning. Never, ever underestimate the advantage of internal movement.
5. Research Masonry, lots of buildings is always good.
6. Build Barracks in every city we haven't already, every XP we get at the start is an XP we don't need to fight for.
7. Is the tech for Town Watchmen nearby? If so, grab it as soon as practical, Riot Police I + immediate upgrade to Riot Police II via Barracks + 50% city defense bonus = massive decrease in crime, instability and forces necessary to hold cities against assault.
8. Build Military, Science, Industrial and Commerce buildings in that order. Military is an utter requirement for conquest, Science improves everything, Industrial means it takes less time to build material and Commerce isn't needed at this point with the advantages of moving the capital and implementing Despotism.
So what do you all think?
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 04, 2013, 09:52:30 pm
So what do you all think?
I think we could use a couple of updates.
Post by: Toaster on December 04, 2013, 09:58:22 pm
I think now is the time for internal reform.
The Aztecs are far north across deserts and marsh, while the Brazilians are within a daggers throw of the Cherokee heartland. With any luck they'll fight each other with the barbarians attacking the Cherokee constantly.
OK:1. Move the capital to Aberpanapopuma, it's our largest city and near the center of our empire.
2. Research Bronze Working for Despotism. Massive. massive benefits, little drawbacks.
3. Research Candle Making & Oil Lamps, 25% bonus to workers each.
4. Research The Wheel, now we can make mud paths, 1/2 cost for movement over mud paths and our workers will be building them like lightning. Never, ever underestimate the advantage of internal movement.
I agree with everything minus the strikeout. It is indeed time to consolidate our gains. I also heartily endorse the last option. We have a bazillion turns to build roads and a long future to get benefit out of them- there's really no reason for all our cities- even the far-flung ones- not to have roads connecting them. If you feel brave you could even start running them toward our next conquests.
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 04, 2013, 10:04:29 pm
I think now is the time for internal reform.
The Aztecs are far north across deserts and marsh, while the Brazilians are within a daggers throw of the Cherokee heartland. With any luck they'll fight each other with the barbarians attacking the Cherokee constantly.
OK:1. Move the capital to Aberpanapopuma, it's our largest city and near the center of our empire.
2. Research Bronze Working for Despotism. Massive. massive benefits, little drawbacks.
3. Research Candle Making & Oil Lamps, 25% bonus to workers each.
4. Research The Wheel, now we can make mud paths, 1/2 cost for movement over mud paths and our workers will be building them like lightning. Never, ever underestimate the advantage of internal movement.
I agree with everything minus the strikeout. It is indeed time to consolidate our gains. I also heartily endorse the last option. We have a bazillion turns to build roads and a long future to get benefit out of them- there's really no reason for all our cities- even the far-flung ones- not to have roads connecting them. If you feel brave you could even start running them toward our next conquests.
Why not move the capital? Big stability and commerce bonus.
Post by: Toaster on December 04, 2013, 10:53:40 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 04, 2013, 10:55:18 pm
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 04, 2013, 11:09:38 pm
Fucking heretics, the lot of you. Our capital is a holy place, we can't govern from anywhere else.
Our religion is based on human sacrifice and you don't want to move the capital towards the future offerings?
Mixcoatl will not be pleased.
Post by: Toaster on December 05, 2013, 09:07:34 am
Fucking heretics, the lot of you. Our capital is a holy place, we can't govern from anywhere else.
Somebody gets it!
Our religion is based on human sacrifice and you don't want to move the capital towards the future offerings?
Mixcoatl will not be pleased.
The gods are HOLY. We work to bring the sacrifices to the gods. We do NOT bring the gods to the sacrifices.
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 05, 2013, 09:52:56 am
Our religion is based on human sacrifice and you don't want to move the capital towards the future offerings?
Mixcoatl will not be pleased.
The gods are HOLY. We work to bring the sacrifices to the gods. We do NOT bring the gods to the sacrifices.
You're claiming the Gods live where we tell them to?
They might start thinking we're hiding something from them...
Which would explain why keeping our capital offshore is causing instability, the Gods are punishing us for our arrogance.
Post by: Toaster on December 05, 2013, 01:56:43 pm
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 05, 2013, 02:10:08 pm
No, no. We are where we are because the gods put us there. We don't tell them where to live- much the opposite. Moving the centrality of our existence is tantamount to heresy.
Then why is moving such a great benefit to stability?
Building a palace for the Gods on the mainland must be the right to do, otherwise why are these omens popping up?
The only thing I can figure out is that they want our capitol on the same continent as our holy city, and what better place then our largest city right next door?
Post by: EuchreJack on December 10, 2013, 02:48:36 am
Post by: Lukeinator on December 17, 2013, 09:40:55 pm
Post by: Sergarr on December 19, 2013, 10:41:12 pm
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on December 19, 2013, 10:49:46 pm
Post by: Boksi on December 20, 2013, 12:39:59 pm
The Capital:
Move Capital: Descan, GreatWyrmGold, Glacies, Satarus, A Real Libertarian, BishopX, EuchreJack, Lukeinator, Sergarr
Don't Move Capital: MetalSlimeHunt, Toaster
Colonize the Arctic to make Capital more centric: LordSlowpoke, stabbymcstabstab
The last one would take a lot of research - as in 'beyond modern-day tech' - and probably wouldn't solve our stability problems anyway, but it is a real option.
Research:
Research Stargazing: MetalSlimeHunt, Satarus
Rush Bronze Working and then some other stuff: A Real Libertarian, Toaster
Since researching stargazing is the senior request it gets the tiebreaker.
If everything goes well, I'll update tomorrow. You have until 12:00 UTC to cast any further votes, as well as suggest new names for Persepolis and Szeged. And remember, the votes of dead people don't count! Not that I'm encouraging you to kill each other or anything, that would be bad~
Post by: A Real Libertarian on December 20, 2013, 02:27:37 pm
suggest new names for Persepolis and Szeged.
I say keep the names to commemorate our victories!
Post by: Evilsx on December 20, 2013, 04:57:40 pm
Post by: Boksi on December 21, 2013, 07:06:01 am
Post by: A Real Libertarian on January 15, 2014, 07:27:13 am
Alright, voting has closed. Hopefully we'll have an update later today.
Soooooo....
Do you have a time estimate?
Post by: Boksi on August 31, 2014, 06:37:44 am
Well, anyway. Where were we?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, research. We'll go for copper working, stargazing and then bronze working.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We're also moving our palaxe to Pumayapan.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, it looks like the Brazilians and the Cherokee are getting up in each other's grills. That's good, it means they're not attacking us.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our galley beats up an entire humpback whale, somehow.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Everybody knows we're the best. Simply the best.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I decide to showcase merchants. You can use them to conduct little trade missions like a mini-great merchant, or to slightly hurry production like a mini-great engineer, effectively transferring hammers from one city to another.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also isn't this our last neanderthal? I'm pretty sure all the other ones are dead and we can't build any more of them.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Our exploring rangers keep getting into fights. One survives. The other does not.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But who cares? We've got Lightning Warriors! For comparison, bronze working unlocks units with 5 base strength. Lightning Warriors have 7. Seven. And a city attack bonus like macemen.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And normal life resumes in Szeged. Only took sixteen years of anarchy and brutal crackdowns before the Huns got in line! We're getting better at this!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, here's a merchant. Hello merchant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Aztecs and the Carthaginians are at each other's throats. The fabled Carthaginian bear cavalry does not avail them, and one of their cities is lost.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, we've got copper working!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We still need a source of copper though. Let's take a look at our lands.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meanwhile, the knowledge of the Jivaro continues to expand. Studying the corpse of a beached whale as the locals merrily chopped it up, the wise men of the Jivaro realized that there were significant differences between whales and other fish beyond mere size differences. Most notably the arrangement of their fins are different, especially the tail fin, but also the fact that they have lungs and other fish do not. Furthermore, they also taste differently. Thus, whales and dolphins have been recognized as lungfishes, distinct from other fishes. This was a great revelation.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I think someone suggested connectin our cities together with roads? Our cities are all connected by coastal routes already, but I suppose roads won't hurt, even if dirt paths don't give any movement bonuses.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, a barbarian city has been left alone long enough to turn into an actual(if minor) civilization!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wonder if this city will also turn into a minor civ?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, since we're at peace, I decide to try for some wonders.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We finally get the myth of the tiger.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the merchant arrives at Pumayapan just in time to help out with the palace... Except that he's used up all his movement and the palace will only take this turn and the next to construct.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More whale killing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We research Ancestor Worship.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And the road between Szeged and Aberpanapopuma is finished. It's kind of hard to see, but it's there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I think that's a good enough update to end the hiatus on. Don't you?
Mind you, updates will continue at a fairly slow pace. But they will continue.
Post by: Lukeinator on August 31, 2014, 07:04:52 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 31, 2014, 08:30:11 am
Post by: Sirus on August 31, 2014, 11:01:51 am
Post by: Boksi on August 31, 2014, 12:23:49 pm
I just downloaded this mod yesterday, so I'm terribly excited for updates to begin again. Probably gonna reread the thread just to pick some tips up :PAhahahaha, you think I am at all competent? My strategy is: Get all the bonus-granting buildings(like bamboo armorer), make a fucking huge doomstack, surround the enemy and smash polygons into the opponent until I win. I'm just winning this hard because the AI just isn't programmed to handle all of this complexity.
Also, I haven't updated my version of the mod since this LP started. There's probably even more complex stuff in it now.
Post by: Thexor on September 01, 2014, 10:14:53 pm
I swear, if I had a few weeks off work, I'd happily get a start on this mod. Until then, I guess I'll keep following this LP. :)
Post by: Duuvian on September 02, 2014, 01:53:44 am
Also isn't this our last neanderthal? I'm pretty sure all the other ones are dead and we can't build any more of them.
This reminds me of one of the Age of Empire games where you could build a fort and cram it full of troops that didn't count against the population limit when inside. I used to put surviving early age units in one of these forts/castles instead of killing them off and then I forgot about them. Once you got to the modern age the forts were obsolete and easy to destroy. A computer opponent raided me with modern infantry with rifles and destroyed my fort of obsolete troops. It looked like a whole circus spilled out with all the cavalry and elephants that were in it.
Post by: IronyOwl on September 02, 2014, 02:31:20 am
Post by: Boksi on September 02, 2014, 02:57:47 am
I don't think any Age of Empires game covers that much of the timeline. You're probably thinking of Empire Earth or Rise of Nations or something.Also isn't this our last neanderthal? I'm pretty sure all the other ones are dead and we can't build any more of them.
This reminds me of one of the Age of Empire games where you could build a fort and cram it full of troops that didn't count against the population limit when inside. I used to put surviving early age units in one of these forts/castles instead of killing them off and then I forgot about them. Once you got to the modern age the forts were obsolete and easy to destroy. A computer opponent raided me with modern infantry with rifles and destroyed my fort of obsolete troops. It looked like a whole circus spilled out with all the cavalry and elephants that were in it.
Post by: Therolyn on September 02, 2014, 03:17:01 am
Post by: Sirus on September 05, 2014, 11:02:17 am
Still, no harm in reading over the history of the Jivaro again!