Post by: backora900 on August 11, 2012, 11:59:59 am
Also I tried to make it as compact as possible.
No design was showing any speed ups or slow downs of minecart after several laps. (cca 5 minutes). This created precise timing of repeaters.
Also I have tried some designs with track stops for slowing minecart but it caused some wierd behavior with oscilating time for 1 lap.
And when you consider this topic:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114394.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114394.0)
It doesn't require any power. (Until Toady decide it's a bug which needs to be "fixed" :D)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5th design - perfect for retracting spikes; they are visible like for only 0.2s ;) (5x7)
Time for a minecart to complete one lap - 148 ticks
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2696/tr148t.png)
The system is same as in design 1. Track ramps are marked N/W - north-west ramp (+wall on northern side) and W/S - west-south (+walls on W). There are also doors for emergency shutdown (see picture of design 6) - it can be replaced with track stop on highest friction linked to a lever.
T - track stop set on medium friction
6th design - perfect for waving bridges :) (5x9)
Time for a minecart to complete one lap - 209 ticks
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8735/tr209t.png)
It's practicaly a bigger design 5.
You can also see possition of 2 pressure plates which makes 1 bridge to open and the other to close. (with cca 5 ticks inconsistency but hey, I am even happy it it working somehow :D)
Just a warning, I have experienced some lags when waving with 2 bridges.
Downfall of these designs is that you can't place any pressure plate on track crossings only on U-bends.
One advantage is that you don't need hatch cover one level above. To start this repeater just order a dwarf to push minecart from the top right corner to the west and it should do the trick. (or at least it worked for me on design 6) And after he pushes it forbid the minecart :)
video "repeater in action":
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2463-minecartrepeaters (http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-2463-minecartrepeaters)
Spikes work fine but bridges cause some lags and I don't know why.
I doubt I can create anything more compact and still usefull. Have fun repeating those goblins not to step on your retracting spikes. ;D
Also when you create design 5 or 6 follow hte minecart (k-F).
Post by: GoombaGeek on August 11, 2012, 12:13:03 pm
Post by: ed boy on August 11, 2012, 01:45:55 pm
Also, you should be able to use bridges to compress the area if you want a quick repeater. I might be able to throw a couple designs together later tonight.
Post by: Itnetlolor on August 11, 2012, 02:01:35 pm
Post by: Iosyn on August 11, 2012, 02:19:12 pm
I am intrigued with this. I can finally automate a spikestrip defense grid without too much convoluted machinery.
This, oh so so very much.
Post by: backora900 on August 11, 2012, 04:05:57 pm
Post by: doublestrafe on August 11, 2012, 06:29:02 pm
Edit: Oh wait, if I turn the contrast way up I can see the ramps, which helps a lot. Which means the weird purple chandelier must be a minecart?
Post by: Sutremaine on August 11, 2012, 06:58:51 pm
Which means the weird purple chandelier must be a minecart?No, that's a ^. The minecart is either hidden or not on the tracks in the screenshots.
Post by: Itnetlolor on August 12, 2012, 12:21:19 pm
I mean, to clean out a spike strip safely, you need to shut them off.
EDIT:
Considering that bridges can still operate like tracks, it seems possible; and to make it single-tile, which also turns into a wall when *closed*, I think it can work, as long as it's built on a straightway.
EDIT EDIT:
Alternatively, a bridge that disappears when it retracts can also be used, and just send the cart through an endless loop that doesn't force it to repeat again until it slows down could also work. It can be placed virtually anywhere. Alternative to the alternative: De-rail it completely into a safe catch spot. Just place one at one of the corners to keep it going straight out.
Post by: backora900 on August 12, 2012, 04:21:19 pm
Can you post any movies of these in action? And would it be possible to build a bridge in the track to turn into a wall to stop it, just in case?
I mean, to clean out a spike strip safely, you need to shut them off.
EDIT:
Considering that bridges can still operate like tracks, it seems possible; and to make it single-tile, which also turns into a wall when *closed*, I think it can work, as long as it's built on a straightway.
EDIT EDIT:
Alternatively, a bridge that disappears when it retracts can also be used, and just send the cart through an endless loop that doesn't force it to repeat again until it slows down could also work. It can be placed virtually anywhere. Alternative to the alternative: De-rail it completely into a safe catch spot. Just place one at one of the corners to keep it going straight out.
- Well, I would but I really don't know how. I onced wanted to upload my fort layout on mkv25.net but for some reason unknown to me it didn't work. So I guess video would be the same problem for me. (I use Phoebus tileset so maybe it doesn't like it). And on youtube video you won't see much because it moves pretty fast.
if you want I can post my save where is working design 6 for bridges. (cca 7 MB)
- Bridge is a bad idea:
- there is probability it could atomsmash your minecart
- use doors as mentioned or highest friction track stop. That both should work. (or a cat, or useless kid)
Post by: Kofthefens on August 12, 2012, 07:48:25 pm
Post by: backora900 on August 13, 2012, 06:54:05 am
Post by: Itnetlolor on August 13, 2012, 05:25:45 pm
Movie looks good, and shows it working. I gotta try this.
Post by: gchristopher on May 20, 2013, 03:42:57 pm
Code: [Select]
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒╔╗╝╝╝╝╝╝B
╚╬══════P▒
╚╝▒
▒
▒ = wall
╝ = NW impulse track/ramp
B = retracting bridge over NW impulse track/ramp with minecart resting on it.
P = pressure plate over NW track
Retract the bridge at B to launch the minecart. It is accelerated by the impulse ramps into the loop on the left. Until it slows down, it will derail on the left center track and continue on the larger 2x3 counterclockwise loop. Once the cart has slowed down enough, it will not derail and will instead be routed back to the right, where it will trigger the pressure plate, then be re-launched by the impulse ramps.
This was my first try at the design and I haven't counted ticks yet, but it works great for waving a bridge. (For a silk farm)
I bet with some refinement, this might be a more compact general way to get variable-length repeaters using minecart.
Post by: backora900 on May 21, 2013, 10:06:58 am
A retracting bridge tend to toss items around.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you want to launch the cart with that bridge you should probably surround it with the ramps. In your design it has 4 out of 6 chance that the cart will land on tile that will not accelerate it (E/W track, preasure plate or empty space to the right).
Try this modification:
Code: [Select]
▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒╔╗╝╝╝╝╝╝B▒
▒╚╬P╔╔╔╔╔B▒
▒╚╝▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒
╝╝╝╝╝╝ and ╔╔╔╔╔ are those acceleration ramps
B-2-tile bridge on top of track turn (not ramps) upper one is W/S, tho lower one is W/N And because you added more ramps you can probably shorten the bigger loop. I don't know how to calculate if cart derails on the track turn so you will have to find out by trial and error.And if you do construct this kind of repeater please tell let me know if it has stable number of ticks betwean activations of the preasure plate.
Post by: gchristopher on May 21, 2013, 01:16:16 pm
A retracting bridge tend to toss items around.Yeah, I was hoping for some way to use both directions for acceleration. That design still won't quite work, because the cart will stop on a non-ramp track and when you retract the bridge, if it doesn't throw the cart, then it won't start moving.
If you want to launch the cart with that bridge you should probably surround it with the ramps. In your design it has 4 out of 6 chance that the cart will land on tile that will not accelerate it (E/W track, preasure plate or empty space to the right).
Try this modification:Code: [Select]▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒And because you added more ramps you can probably shorten the bigger loop. I don't know how to calculate if cart derails on the track turn so you will have to find out by trial and error.
▒╔╗╝╝╝╝╝╝B▒
▒╚╬P╔╔╔╔╔B▒
▒╚╝▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒
▒▒▒▒
╝╝╝╝╝╝ and ╔╔╔╔╔ are those acceleration ramps
B-2-tile bridge on top of track turn (not ramps) upper one is W/S, tho lower one is W/N
And if you do construct this kind of repeater please tell let me know if it has stable number of ticks betwean activations of the preasure plate.
The derailment should be based on velocity. I'll try confirming that with dfhack.
Thanks!
Post by: Xinael on November 04, 2016, 12:50:56 pm
Post by: Fleeting Frames on November 04, 2016, 02:30:41 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/FdTXuYj.png)
Ramps below standard two-ramp bouncers.
As for the bridge design, you can do much more compact if you use something like hatch as a delay, ex.
(Someone's else design, again...Didn't save notes. Edit: Larix's design, I think (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:Larix/MPL/3))
(https://i.imgur.com/1hegwBL.png)
Downramps again bouncers to both tracks upwards, with the solitary east ramp being impulse to push it back.
Of course, once you have taken the fps hit from repeating bridges once, you'll likely look some ways to not use repeating bridges, so it's something of a novelty.
Post by: Xinael on November 04, 2016, 05:18:42 pm
I'm not sure what you mean by "bouncer", though?
Post by: Fleeting Frames on November 04, 2016, 07:31:02 pm
The system is same as in design 1. Track ramps are marked N/W - north-west ramp (+wall on northern side) and W/S - west-south (+walls on W). There are also doors for emergency shutdown (see picture of design 6) - it can be replaced with track stop on highest friction linked to a lever.
T - track stop set on medium friction
6th design - perfect for waving bridges :) (5x9)
Time for a minecart to complete one lap - 209 ticks
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8735/tr209t.png)
It's practicaly a bigger design 5.
For the second, a "bouncer" is two track/ramps - here, the second one isn't visible on level below - with connection to floor towards each other. (Diagram: Wall==Wall). Named so for minecart bounces endlessly unless it has connection upwards (which it has on these diagrams, spring it up.)
Frequently used in very simple fortress defences (though, those usually use something like ╔╗ with wall to the south instead - that hatch also has both ramps as corner ones underneath), minecart logic, minecart repeaters/timers* and acceleration/checkpoints that works for carts going both ways.
*The simplest/smallest which is just a pressure plate, heavy weight cart on track stop and light cart tapping it over and over on level below.
Post by: Pseudo on April 14, 2017, 12:53:48 pm
(And on a side note: this is one of the reasons I prefer ascii-art designs over screencaps... less likely to be lost in the mists of time.)
Post by: Lando242 on April 10, 2018, 05:12:29 pm
I found this on a Reddit page. IIRC this is based on design #5. It has four pressure plates instead of the basic one but everything else about it is stock.