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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 03:14:19 pm

Title: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 03:14:19 pm
I'm not sure if anyone has done this before, but I had an idea for a way of making a timer for machines using were-beasts. The machine would be pretty simple. The infected dwarf would be placed ina 1*1 room with a life supply of food and drink (much like dwarven child care) atop a pressure plate, set to be triggered by non-civilians. That way whenever the dwarf transforms, it becomes a non-civilian, setting of the pressure-plate. Even if the dwarf set off the pressure plate when not transformed or the transformed dwarf counted as a civilian. You could acheive the same goal by setting the preassure plate to be set off by civilans at just over the weight of a large dwarf. that way when they transform, the gained mass sets off the pressure plate.

I have not tried this yet, and so I'm not sure which way would be most effective, but I'm almost certain this would work. It would allow you to make things happen every full moon. you could use it to automate a GCS silk farm by opening floodgates to give it a line of sight to a chained animal, and close said floodgates to allow dwarves to collect the webs, maybe even incorperating a door that locks when the spider has line of sight, thus making it less likely that dwarves will be caught in the webs.

Any ideas for ways to use and/or improve this "were-clock". One idea I have is that you could make it so the dwarf has line of sight to a legendary dining room to keep them from going melancholy, the design I have in mind is something like this:

Code: [Select]
+++++++++++
++.......++
++.BBBBB.++
+..BBBBB..+
+.BB===BB.+
+.BB|W|BB.+
+.BB===BB.+
+..BBBBB..+
++.BBBBB.++
++.......++
+++++++++++

key:
+ = floor (part of dining room)
. = pit (to keep stupuid dwarves from being crushed by the bridges)
B = bridge connected to the clock (raising in the direction of the clock to keep other dwarves happy and un-frightened)
= and | = glass or fortifications
W = the clock itself

once agian, any improvements or uses are appreciated.  :D
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Mura on August 22, 2012, 03:23:35 pm
... This is brilliant.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: GoombaGeek on August 22, 2012, 03:31:02 pm
Incredible.

Do werebeasts live forever?

If so, couple them with a dorfvault (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113237.0) that drops a steady stream of plump helmets and bone pots (is that possible?) or barrels of alcohol through the werebeast hole. It's the dwarf way of timing out a month, and only requires sealing away a breeding pair of potash makers to keep the clock going forever.

Even better - after fifty years, the youngest dwarf gets assigned to a secret bedroom below the bridge level. A bridge opens, the access to the rest of the vault closes, and the child becomes the next lunar timepiece once the old werebeast is also smashed by a bridge. Lovely.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 03:37:20 pm
Incredible.

Do werebeasts live forever?

If so, couple them with a dorfvault (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113237.0) that drops a steady stream of plump helmets and bone pots (is that possible?) or barrels of alcohol through the werebeast hole. It's the dwarf way of timing out a month, and only requires sealing away a breeding pair of potash makers to keep the clock going forever.

Even better - after fifty years, the youngest dwarf gets assigned to a secret bedroom below the bridge level. A bridge opens, the access to the rest of the vault closes, and the child becomes the next lunar timepiece once the old werebeast is also smashed by a bridge. Lovely.

I believe were-beasts live forever, because I have seen 138 year-old ones in legends mode, so while eventual replacement might be possible, It wasn't part of the plan as that would require access to another square that doesn't have a pressure plate, thus causing the clock to sometimes, if not always, fail. The DorfVault 2.0, however, should work perfectly with this design as I believe were-beasts still require food, unlike vampires.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: GoombaGeek on August 22, 2012, 03:39:58 pm
Dwarves can live to be 180, check out the ages of some of your "clean" citizens.

The wiki doesn't seem to say anything ???
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 03:41:55 pm
Dwarves can live to be 180, check out the ages of some of your "clean" citizens.

The wiki doesn't seem to say anything ???

well, I don't beleive any fort has lasted anywhere near that long, so I would suggest simply using a young were-beast, just in case.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Supernerd on August 22, 2012, 03:48:13 pm
You don't need to feed the were-beast clock. If a dwarf is a were-beast they will transform before they die of starvation and transforming eliminates hunger.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Kate Wissen on August 22, 2012, 03:59:18 pm
I don't know if you can make a were-creature a vampire as well, but that would remove the need for food, and resolve any old age death issues.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 04:08:34 pm
You don't need to feed the were-beast clock. If a dwarf is a were-beast they will transform before they die of starvation and transforming eliminates hunger.

If the time it takes a dwarf to starve is shorter than the time between two full moons, that would make design a lot simpler. Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 22, 2012, 06:01:42 pm
Do werebeasts live forever?
Yes

You don't need to feed the were-beast clock. If a dwarf is a were-beast they will transform before they die of starvation and transforming eliminates hunger.
It will however make them very unhappy. So either drop some food/booze or choose a Dwarf who's hardened to tragedy.

I don't know if you can make a were-creature a vampire as well, but that would remove the need for food, and resolve any old age death issues.
Not possible.

Also the full moon happens on the 23rd in Fortress mode (as far as I can tell), and lasts for 2 days. There is one snag however, aren't werebeasts trap avoid?
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on August 22, 2012, 06:22:04 pm
There is one snag however, aren't werebeasts trap avoid?

That is a problem, now that I think about it. a possible way of fixing it would be to trap it with a tame GCS, that way, when it transforms it gets bitten, is paralyzed, and triggers the preassure plate, and it would recover when the full moon stopped. even if the GCS bit him while he wasn't transformed, he would just be paralyzed until the full moon. (you'd have to make sure the pressure plate was set so that he couldn't trigger it by being paralyzed when not transformed)
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Farmerbob on August 22, 2012, 06:46:04 pm
There is one snag however, aren't werebeasts trap avoid?

That is a problem, now that I think about it. a possible way of fixing it would be to trap it with a tame GCS, that way, when it transforms it gets bitten, is paralyzed, and triggers the preassure plate, and it would recover when the full moon stopped. even if the GCS bit him while he wasn't transformed, he would just be paralyzed until the full moon. (you'd have to make sure the pressure plate was set so that he couldn't trigger it by being paralyzed when not transformed)

Eh, if Weres are trapavoid, the clock should still work, but instead of detecting the mass of the were, you detect the mass of the dwarf.  Basically instead of opening the door 2 days out of a month, you close a door for all but 2 days.  Different logic path, same end result.  Unless I'm missing something :P
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Scruffy on August 22, 2012, 06:46:47 pm
There is one snag however, aren't werebeasts trap avoid?

That is a problem, now that I think about it. a possible way of fixing it would be to trap it with a tame GCS, that way, when it transforms it gets bitten, is paralyzed, and triggers the preassure plate, and it would recover when the full moon stopped. even if the GCS bit him while he wasn't transformed, he would just be paralyzed until the full moon. (you'd have to make sure the pressure plate was set so that he couldn't trigger it by being paralyzed when not transformed)
Werebeasts don't get [TRAP_AVOID] so they should be able to trigger traps in their beastform if they are not a member of your civ. I'm not certain of the exact details but I have caught many werebeasts in regular cage traps, some of which have been dwarves. I'm not sure if they are treated like berserk dwarves (which can be trapped) if they were originally your own dwarves that got infected.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on August 22, 2012, 08:00:57 pm
Will an infected dwarf werebeast only scare animals when transformed? If so, a trapped one could cause a pastured animal to run away over a pressure plate or something.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 22, 2012, 08:40:47 pm
Eh, if Weres are trapavoid, the clock should still work, but instead of detecting the mass of the were, you detect the mass of the dwarf.  Basically instead of opening the door 2 days out of a month, you close a door for all but 2 days.  Different logic path, same end result.  Unless I'm missing something :P
You've got a clock :P

Will an infected dwarf werebeast only scare animals when transformed?
Yes. A Dwarf infected with were-ism can also do all the jobs a normal Dwarf can (usually better too). Basically a really good Dwarf until full moon.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: TruePikachu on August 23, 2012, 04:50:31 am
You don't need to feed the were-beast clock. If a dwarf is a were-beast they will transform before they die of starvation and transforming eliminates hunger.
It will however make them very unhappy. So either drop some food/booze or choose a Dwarf who's hardened to tragedy.
There is another solution: engrave the walls of the chamber, and make the pressure plate out of an artifact mechinism.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Mr S on August 23, 2012, 09:26:04 am
I always want to think about moods and thoughts when doing something that involves permenantly locking somebody away, such as a time capsule, control lever room, or, in this case, a clock.

Does the were-transformation cancel moods?  If so, will they come back after the lunar cycle?  This is some good !!Science!! to do, I would think.

If it DOES cancel a mood, then will the dwarf be subject to a subsequent mood?  Dwarves can normally only have one mood, either they succeed or go mad and do something to themselves or others that ends in !!fun!! for the moody dwarf (and possibly a tantrum spiral).  If the mood is negated by were-ism, will they have another go sometime down the line?

Also, clothing is a consideration.  Drop in new *Socks* now and then?  Or will the negative thoughts of being without proper trousers be doused at moon phase before driving the poor sod bonkers?

If they HAVE managed to go SRM because his mother was killed in siege, somebody smashed his artifact Ice Trumpet and his kitten died, with the were-transformation set his mood meter back to an even keel?  So much !!Science!! to do for these were-creatures.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 23, 2012, 10:23:07 am
Does the were-transformation cancel moods?  If so, will they come back after the lunar cycle?  This is some good !!Science!! to do, I would think.
I don't know, it's never happened before. I guess with enough time someone with a were-dwarf will win the mood lottery...
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: GoombaGeek on August 23, 2012, 10:30:57 am
Make the were-beast male - if they're female, it's possible that the constant dehydration/starvation will cause a miscarriage (magic spores, amirite?) and a GIGANTIC mood drop.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Quietust on August 23, 2012, 11:15:09 am
Make the were-beast male - if they're female, it's possible that the constant dehydration/starvation will cause a miscarriage (magic spores, amirite?) and a GIGANTIC mood drop.
A female dwarf can only become pregnant if she is married (which is probably unlikely for a werebeast) and she is capable of pathing to her husband (which will be impossible if she's sealed inside a room with no exit).
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Farmerbob on August 24, 2012, 12:33:09 am
Does the were-transformation cancel moods?  If so, will they come back after the lunar cycle?  This is some good !!Science!! to do, I would think.
I don't know, it's never happened before. I guess with enough time someone with a were-dwarf will win the mood lottery...

Be interesting if it is possible to cure a dwarf of madness by turning them into a were.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: DanteThanatos on August 24, 2012, 02:56:29 am
I think I've seen toady says that any failed mood(no matter the cause) will cause Insanity.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Rvlion on August 24, 2012, 05:05:23 am
There is one snag however, aren't werebeasts trap avoid?

That is a problem, now that I think about it. a possible way of fixing it would be to trap it with a tame GCS, that way, when it transforms it gets bitten, is paralyzed, and triggers the preassure plate, and it would recover when the full moon stopped. even if the GCS bit him while he wasn't transformed, he would just be paralyzed until the full moon. (you'd have to make sure the pressure plate was set so that he couldn't trigger it by being paralyzed when not transformed)
Werebeasts don't get [TRAP_AVOID] so they should be able to trigger traps in their beastform if they are not a member of your civ. I'm not certain of the exact details but I have caught many werebeasts in regular cage traps, some of which have been dwarves. I'm not sure if they are treated like berserk dwarves (which can be trapped) if they were originally your own dwarves that got infected.

In a previous fort I recall getting a visit from a dwarven were-beast (don't recall what animal kind)...
Anyway I had a whole array of cage traps set-up to prevent unwanted attention inside the fortress as.
Below in Code I attempt to show the layout of the traps... When it came it went immidiately for my entrance, ran across several traps and I was like !FUN! ???
But suddenly it changed back into dwarven form and despite being friendly according to the 'u' screen it got itself trapped in one of the cage traps and as such moved to the animal storage together with all the goblins I had already caught.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After this I got a message every few minutes that the dwarf became werebeast and vica versa while it was in the cage.

The fortress did not survive very long after that... It appears Titans are not only trap-avoid and building destroyers... So not only evading my traps, but also bashing the door in at the end of the corridor, but they are also strong enough to whipe out your fortress without a good militairy...  ;D
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Helgoland on August 24, 2012, 06:58:03 am
The traditional method of giving eternal life to a fortress is sealing in a melancholy vampire - why not use a melancholy werebeast (about whose mood you no longer need to worry) in the clock?
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Mr S on August 24, 2012, 07:48:45 am
I think I've seen toady says that any failed mood(no matter the cause) will cause Insanity.

Sure, but if there's a were-beast transformation, will the mood FAIL, or will it simply not exist any more (flag reset)?

And if it DOES go insane, will the were-beast transformation remove the applicable insanity flag?

Also, what does the were-transformation do to a dwarf's mood and/or thoughts under "normal" circumstances?
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 24, 2012, 09:49:28 am
Sure, but if there's a were-beast transformation, will the mood FAIL, or will it simply not exist any more (flag reset)?

And if it DOES go insane, will the were-beast transformation remove the applicable insanity flag?

Also, what does the were-transformation do to a dwarf's mood and/or thoughts under "normal" circumstances?
1. It's very hard to get a were-dwarf to mood D:
2. Who knows? When a Dwarf is in animal form they're berserk. I can see two outcomes : They're berserk in were-form and whatever form of insanity they were in Dwarf form, or they are cured of the crazy.
3. I'm not sure about that one. It looks like it resets their happiness to fine though.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Broken on August 24, 2012, 11:12:16 am
You can resolve the mood problem using a dwarf that has already make an artifact, since they can only be mooded once.
Title: Re: Were-beast powered clock.
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 24, 2012, 11:59:44 am
You can resolve the mood problem using a dwarf that has already make an artifact, since they can only be mooded once.
Or by choosing a military Dwarf who's on duty all day every year.