Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Tiruin on August 29, 2012, 07:06:00 pm

Title: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on August 29, 2012, 07:06:00 pm

Beginner's Mafia XXXVI

Back to the Dark Ages

"The Red Moon is said to be a herald of death and an omen of judgement. War is looming on the horizon, and peace will be shattered once more."

It was night. Flashes of lightning and thunder echoed across the heavens above, proclaiming the coming of a powerful storm along the coastal boarder. Silver drops of rain wreathed through the sky, falling upon the rooftops and torches of the people below, reminding the peasantry of the coming harvest with their constant tapping on the entry door.

It was peace, the very semblance of that which ruled over the realm for decades despite the natural cacophany. And yet, it wasn't this that woke up the commoners -- they were already awake. The sky was filled with the crimson glow akin to blood as the people fixed their gaze on the source. A raging fire.

In the distance, deep in the heart of the realm, the only bastion that was said to be invulnerable to any foe bore a gaping hole in her eastern section. The smell of burning pitch and tar filled the air, along with that of the dead and dying. It was an act of sabotage, surely, but who could've provided the firepower for the operation? Peace was the fact of life at the time, and it had been so for the past decades that most of the populace forgot how grim a war could be, only hearing about tales of conquest and glory through books and tomes.

Of course, this was perhaps all a plot from the inside.

---

The Suspects

Player List

• Nerjin - Victory'd, D3: Mafia Godfather
• wsoxfan > Pranz - Lynched, D3: Vanilla Townie
• Kamin - Victory'd, D3: Mafia Roleblocker
• kingfisher1112 - Lynched, D2: Vanilla Townie
• markressler > webadict - Slain in the second night: Town Doctor
• vodot > penngo009 - Defeat'd, D3: Vanilla Townie
• Wrex - Lynched, D1: Town Cop

ICs

• Jim Groovester - Defeat'd, D3: Vanilla Townie
• Shakerag - Slain in the First Night: Vanilla Townie

Scum IC

• Dariush

Replacements

The Known Audience

• Scelly9
• Hapah
• Jervill
• Phantom of The Library
• Deathsword
• zombie urist
• blackmagechill

Spoiled Spectators

• Bookthras - Observe'd, ?: Spectator

Introduction

Welcome to Beginner's Mafia XXXVI. As the title suggests, this game is for beginners. If you have no idea how to play or you have some experience but you're still not quite sure what to do, then this is the right place for you. If you sign up, your goal is onefold: Learn how to play the game of mafia. Since this is not an easy thing to do on your own and we wouldn't dream of forcing you to do it, you will be assisted by two 'inexperienced challenged' players, or ICs. The ICs are experienced players on the board who have signed up to help you learn. You can always trust that the advice they give is genuine, however, you can not always trust the IC, as they are players in the game and have the same likelihood of being scum as every other single player.

If this is your first time playing, keep in mind that games of forum mafia take several weeks, and can sometimes run longer than a month, and that you are expected to be able to play continuously through that time. If you can't anticipate being able to play for that long for whatever reason, then maybe the game of mafia isn't for you. But if it is, then welcome to the mafia subforum, and I hope you have a great time playing.

---

Gameplay and Concept

The game of mafia has a simple concept. A large group of players known as the town plays against a smaller group of players known as the mafia. In this setup, there are nine players, with seven town and two mafia.

Before the game begins, each players is given a role and an alignment by the moderator. There are two alignments in this setup: Town and Mafia. The town outnumber the mafia, but each individual member of the town does not know the alignment of any of the other members. The mafia know the alignment of everyone on their team and they can discuss the game privately in a special mafia chat. The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.

Once everyone has a role, the game begins in the Day phase. During the Day phase, players may discuss the game and each player has a vote that they cast publicly to lynch a player. At the end of the day after some predetermined amount of time, the player with the most votes is lynched. Lynching does two things: it reveals a player's role and alignment, and it removes a player from the game. Once lynched, a player is no longer allowed to post in the thread.

Once the day ends, the game proceeds to Night. During the Night, discussion is prohibited. The mafia team picks a target to nightkill. If available, any town power roles use their actions as well. At the end of the night, the target the mafia chose to nightkill has their role and alignment revealed, and that player is removed from the game in a similar way to being lynched. Once the night ends, the game proceeds to another Day.

Both teams win by eliminating the other. However, due to the nature of the teams, they win very differently. The town win by finding and lynching the mafia, while the mafia win by avoiding being lynched and nightkilling.

Potential Roles

Vanilla Townie - A member of the town with no special abilities.
Mafioso - A member of the mafia with no special abilities.
Cop (Town) - A cop may choose to inspect a single player during the night and learn that player's alignment.
Doctor (Town) - A doctor may choose a single player to protect during the night, preventing that player from being nightkilled.
Roleblocker (Mafia) - A roleblocker may choose a single player to block, preventing that player from performing his action.
Godfather (Mafia) - A godfather appears town to Cop inspections.

The only role that receives the success of their results in this setup is the Cop. All other roles are not informed if they were successful or not.

There is no limit to the number of Vanilla Townies or Mafiosos the game may have, but all other roles have a maximum of one.

Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)

Here is the list of potential role PMs. This is to discourage flavor claiming from confirming role.

SCUM//MAFIA ROLES

Quote

You are the Templar Grandmaster {Mafia Godfather}, one of the last of your order. Your order has been plagued by slander and conspiracies, burdened by the load of lies and deceit. Your followers are few, and dispersed throughout the land, powerless to take on the multitudes around them in your quest.

But you, are alive, and together with your ally, have managed to infiltrate the Chapterhouse of the highest current order in the land -- the Iridescent Flame. Together, with your specialized training and with the aid of a secret hand, you know that no source of information can betray you in your quest for vengeance.

Your training in subterfuge has proven a boon to your survival, being able to speak with your allies in secret along with personal defense lessons in the arts of swordplay.

((You are of the Mafia Faction! Being the Godfather, you are immune to Town Cop results -- showing up as Town to any inspects laid on you. You may speak with your allies in the scumchat:

You win when the TOWN faction has equal or less players than your faction!))

Quote

You are the Templar Chaplain {Mafia Roleblocker}, a pious and devout man to the memories of the long forgotten past. You recall the times where peace reigned throughout the realm for years, undisturbed by the problems today. But this was then; your people have dwindled throughout the years, replaced by these so-called knights in the quest for growth and prosperity. A new hand rules over the realm, and you and your followers bask in it's shadow.

However, not all hope is lost. Your piety to the reigning diety has granted you powers that these new orders cannot fully comprehend. Being able to invoke their power when needed, you can disable any authority that stands in your way -- whether it be physical or magical force, none can stand against the will of a righteous man except for Justice, herself.

You are here to ensure that your quest for vengeance and redemption will be fulfilled, having breached the confines of the Chapterhouse of the highest order in the land, it would only take a few more crucial steps to ensure victory. Whether it be by the sword, or by the pen, you know you shall succeed.

((You are of the Mafia Faction! Being the Roleblocker, you are able to Roleblock any individual who you deem worthy of being disabled for the night. The roleblock stops any action of the target from occurring. You may speak with your allies in the scumchat:

You win when the TOWN faction has equal or less players than your faction!))

Quote

You are a Knight Templar {Normal Mafioso}, one of the few surviving followers of an ancient monastic order whose roots delve deep into the forgotten past, that you can only recall a glimpse of the age in which it was at it's height of power and glory. The years have not been kind to you or to your brothers -- change has taken place in the lands and in the realm as a whole, loyalties have been swapped and the fault of lies and deceit have been laid unjustly on you and your order's name.

However, that may be all subject to change. Along with a trusted ally, you have breached the impregnable fortress of the nobility of the realm -- the order of the Iridescent Flame.You know that victory is already at hand, but due to recent circumstances, delayed by a pitiful few steps. Granted, your training has proven an invaluable aid in your journey, giving you the ability to speak in secret with your allies.

((You are of the Mafia Faction! Being a Mafioso, you have no other abilities but the shared Nightkill of your faction during the Night. You may scheme and discuss with your allies in the scumchat:

You win when the TOWN faction has equal or less players than your faction!))

TOWN ROLES

Quote

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie. You win when the MAFIA are wholly eliminated, regardless of your survival UNLESS the number of MAFIA is equal to, or more than, TOWN players.))

Quote

You are the Quartermaster of the Iridescent Flame {Town Cop}, one of the elders of the archaic monastic order. You carry the lock and keys to the archives and librariums of your people, and have always been entrusted with keeping the dishes clean. Your oath to the King and to your lord has given you the freedom to browse the archives every night in your quest for vindication due to recent events, and though you have been an influential individual in the presence of nobility for most of your life, your only weapons here are your tongue and your keys.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Inspect any individual to discover their alignment {which will read: Town or Mafia}. You cannot inspect yourself.

You win when the MAFIA are wholly eliminated, regardless of your survival UNLESS the number of MAFIA is equal to, or more than, TOWN players.))

Quote

You are the Apothecary of the Iridescent Flame {Town Doctor}, a noble and trusted man in the eyes of the commoners and of your fellow knights. Your knowledge on herbal lore and treatment of the wounded have been crucial to the survival of your order, being able to heal the most grevous of wounds and maladys. Your trustworthiness has given you free passage of the order halls during the hours after twilight, due to recent events.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Protect any individual, except yourself from the Mafia Nightkill, thereby saving the target if the same target was singled out for death during the Night.

You win when the MAFIA are wholly eliminated, regardless of your survival UNLESS the number of MAFIA is equal to, or more than, TOWN players.))

Notes about the ICs

The ICs are here solely to teach new players how to play, but remember, they are also players in the game. This means they have the same chance to be scum as any other player and it is entirely possible for one IC or even both ICs to be scum. Regardless of their alignment, they are obligated to provide you with genuine advice, so that even if you don't trust the IC, you can trust the advice they give. Some ICs will use a special 'IC voice' to alert players that they are delivering honest, unfiltered advice, while some don't.

The ICs have the special privilege of being able to talk while dead. This is so that they can continue to give advice even if they are killed during the course of the game.

---

Rules

• Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.
  • Tiruin,
  • Vote Tiruin,
  • Tir,
  • Vote Scumbag Tiruin,
  Are all acceptable ways to cast a vote if the target is clear enough.
  • If you want to remove your vote, you may put unvote in red text. You must explicitly state this.  It is possible to put the name of the player you were voting afterwards, but it is not recommended as it can lead to confusion.
• Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.
• PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.
  
  • Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related queries.
• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a trainwreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.
• Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.
  • Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
  • If you stop playing my game altogether without notifying me, I will come looking for you.
  • Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
• Day/Night Length - Days will last 72 hours, excluding weekends. Nights will last 24 hours, or until all night actions are received.
• Extensions/Shortens - A player may vote for an extension to increase the length of the day. It requires >33% of the current number of players to request an extension for an extension to be granted. A player may also vote for a shorten. It requires >50% of the current number of players for a shorten to be granted. Extensions increase day length by 48 hours, while shortens will immediately end the day as soon as possible. There is no limit to the number of extensions that may be granted.
  • Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten.
  • Extensions/shortens can be opposed by declaring opposition (Oppose Shorten/Extend, I oppose this notion!, My Oppose goes to this), and they count against the total number of votes for an extension/shorten. Extensions count as opposition to shortens and vice versa.
• External Participation - While the game is ongoing, if you are not a player, an IC, or a mod, refrain from posting in the thread. I know this won't stop some of you.
• Play to win! There is no hopeless situation, so don't ever give up. And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.

---

Resources and Guides


Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)

Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).
Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"


Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.

If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:


Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true motives.  Pull more from them.  DON'T LET GO!  Even if the town ignores you or even votes for you because of it, DO IT ANYWAY!  Push, push, PUSH, ***PUSH*** until you have solid proof of what they are.

If you can't find enough to prove them and run out of things to say, check one more time to see if you still feel he's scum, then pull back, look at others (Step 2) but be ready to go back to them at any time.  If your convinced and ready to kill them, Step 4

Step 4: Final step.  It's time to convince the town.  Show what you have.  Push the target so they show more scumminess.  Attack, but do it only to demonstrate to the town what you KNOW is true.  You aren't trying to argue with the mafia anymore.. you are trying to show the town why you are right and Mr.Mafia MUST be lynched.  If you are at this point, only 3 things can happen:

1.  The scum is lynched.
2. You are given so much information that you become CONVINCED that the target is town. (no less than CONVINCED.. doubt, maybe, 'perhaps' won't due)
3. You are dead.



That's how a basic scumhunt is done.  One last note on doubt:

Doubt is something that's ok to have but UGLY to show.  If you doubt or have second thoughts, DON'T DISPLAY IT.  If you think "He looks passive but I don't know..."  you SAY "You scum!  Stop being passive!!!"  If you think "He may have a good reason to attack guy really." say "Give me your reasons and stop being vague."

Doubt is something for yourself.  When you have doubt, go back and see if your original ideas still hold up.  If they do or if you find yourself saying "I'm not sure" then go back to the attack until you are sure.  This ain't the USA: we play by Guilty until Proven Innocent here.  Unless you can get yourself to believe they may be honest, keep the attack.

So doubt is ok to have if used right.. but the town does NOT need to hear it.  If you doubt, accuse anyway as if you know.  If you wonder, accuse as if you know it.  If you know the answer, ASK ANYWAY and let THEM answer.  Make them convince you they are town: don't do the job for them.


And that's scumhunting in a nutshell.  Everyone, try to figure out what Step you are on and work accordingly.  Note that you should be almost done Step 1 by the end of Day 1 (though some may be higher by then).  If you aren't, keep random voting and consider an Extension.

If you don't know WHAT you are.. you're in Step 1.  Get to random voting.

Last note: 'Not voting' should only be done when you are doing a quick look over everyone's past.  Otherwise, your vote and your attention should always be on SOMEONE, even if it is at random.

It's best for a lynch to be for a reason reason.. but it's better for someone to be lynched randomly than for no lynch to occur at all.

Spoiler: CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia (click to show/hide)

Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.

Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.

BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)

Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bussing, throwing him/her under the bus) When a mafia member attacks another one in order to make themselves look like a loyal townie when his or her scumpartner gets lynched.

Cult - A group of players that share a win condition, know each other, and can communicate freely. They are generally a second type of scum, although rarely they can be town-aligned. Instead of a kill, they can recruit players into the cult. There is generally a cult leader, who is in charge of recruiting.

FoS - Finger of Suspicion, writing someone's name in blue signifies a great deal of suspicion. It's kind of like a fake-vote, or the threat of a vote. Good for getting attention.

FTD - Failure to Deliver, also known as Toaster's #1 Scumtell. The act of promising to post more information at a later time, and then failing to do so. A very difficult action to justify as town, because it means you are either lazy or lying, it is therefore seen as a pretty solid scumtell.

IC - Inexperienced Challenged, players who are too experienced to justify playing in a Beginner's Mafia, and act as mentors/guides for the Town or the Scum.

Lurking - Purposefully not posting, so that you have few or no posts that can be analyzed. Generally a good strategy for scum. However, has the danger of earning you prods, getting modkilled, or found out via Zathras' Lurkertracker. Lurking is different than simply being away or unavailable. A good way to tell if someone is lurking is to check their profile's last active time, and compare it to their last post.

LYLO - Lynch or Lose, a situation where Town only outnumbers Scum by a single person (e.g. 3 town vs. 2 scum). During LYLO, Town MUST lynch Scum or instantly lose.

Masons - A group of town-aligned players who know each other to be town-aligned. They can communicate with each other freely.

MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, a situation where Town outnumbers Scum by two people (4 town vs. 2 scum). During MYLO, if Town lynches Town, Scum will win after night-killing town, making it 2 town vs. 2 scum, which is an instant scum win.

NL - No Lynch, to choose to end the day without lynching anyone and see if any information is revealed in the night.

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you

PFP - Posting From Phone (or Profession), throwing up a short post to prove you aren't lurking, when you are too busy at the time to make a more complete post.

PL - Policy Lynch, lynching someone for reasons other than scumminess. Variants are Lynch All Lurkers, Lynch All Liars, etc. Also see: Org.

PPE - Pre-Post Edit, typically done when you go to either Preview or Post and notice that someone else has posted before you. PPE is shorthand for acknowledging the "Warning - You may wish to review your post" message.

RIA - Refuge in Audacity, acting really crazy or really scummy to make people think that you couldn't possibly be scum because of how crazy you are. This never works. Neither does sarcasm in general, really. If you want to be sarcastic, make it painfully obvious you are being sarcastic, with <sarcasm>fake sarcasm tags</sarcasm>. Even still, it's not a good idea, because Mafia is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Role - Also called Power Role, any special powers you have. Cops, doctors, roleblockers, and godfathers are examples of classic roles. Some roles are alignment-specific, some aren't, and some can be for any alignment.

Rolefishing - Any question or attempt to learn information about someone's role. Typically something done at the beginning of the game. Typically a scum move, because it is in scum's advantage to find and lynch powerful roles. Can be acceptable later in the game, or in special circumstances where it is beneficial for town to learn someone's role. The reason it is scummy is because the really powerful town roles want to stay hidden so they don't get lynched by scum, and bringing attention to them by rolefishing risks their secrecy.

RVS - Random Voting Stage, the early-early game, shortly after the game begins, where people randomly vote each other and ask each other different questions, trying to find any good reason to suspect someone.

Scum - Mafia, or someone who isn't aligned with the Town. The Informed Minority.

SK - Serial Killer, a third party role with a nightkill, and who is hostile to everyone.

Survivor - a third party role whose win condition requires that they be alive at the end of the game. Normal players can die and still win as long as their team as a whole wins, but a survivor must actually be alive at the end.

Third Party - an alignment that is independent of scum and town. Has a unique victory condition, and is typically a lone wolf type character.

Town - The anti-Scum. The uninformed majority.

Vanilla - Someone who doesn't have a power role. "Vanilla Town", "Vanilla Scum", etc.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

Quote from: Princess Bride

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

WoT - Wall of Text; a really really long post. Sometimes unavoidable, but generally you should try to keep them to a minimum. Sometimes scum use them to seem more active then they are.

Massclaim - When everyone starts roleclaiming, or saying they are a power role.

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or seems reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be seen supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

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Frequently Asked Questions

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Oh my god this game seems fun. But wait, what are the rules?
  This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0) is a good Mafia tutorial, brought to you by the wise JoshuaFH. Heed his words. It isn't included here because it's rather too long for that.
• People are accusing me of being scum! I'm about to get lynched! What do I do?
  The first and most important order of business is not to give up.
  One, two votes isn't much. Even if someone's got a bandwagon on you and people are writing walls of accusations, do not lose hope. You can still turn this around, no matter how bleak it appears. Fight them with your own arguments, and search for people you may think are scum, and try to turn the votes against them. About the worst thing you can do is give up, whether you are town or scum; you are harming the town by making it lose another member, distracting them from hunts for the true scum, and worsening your own game as well.
  The other players have nothing against you: it's just how the game goes. Even if you foul it up and people yell at you for it, once the game is over we're all friends.
  There are still people who give up, saying things like "You'll all be sorry when you find out I'm just town afterwards!" and "I'm not even going to try, there no way to stop this". Don't be that guy. Not only is it rather selfish, it will simply deepen your grave. You have to get out of it with real, meat-laden arguments, and these empty threats and remarks will only make you appear more scummy.
• Do I have to post so much? I can't be bothered.
  Yes, you do. You have to be an active player to scumhunt effectively, and with a lurking playerbase you might as well just hand it to the scum. There is always something to say; even if someone said what you wanted to, say it anyways in your own words. Always ask questions, always observe.
  This is a very demanding game. If you don't have enough time, then perhaps you should look elsewhere.
• How do I even tell if someone's scum anyways?
  This is, in fact, a difficult question. The game involves a lot of observation, and often it's more about intuition.
  You can often tell with the help of the List of Common Scumtells, provided below, but don't make the mistake of overusing it. Not every accusal against you is an OMGUS, and not all attempts at logic are WIFOM.  If in doubt, always remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. Don't take anything for granted.
• What's all this wine stuff that players keep talking about? Does Mafia cause alcoholism?
  They are likely referring to the concept of WIFOM. It's a name for the kind of circular reasoning that you'd find when scrutinising scum motives, and is described in the CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia below. It goes like this:
  
  A: Why didn't our most active player get killed? It would be the scum's goal to kill the most active players to remove accusal, wouldn't it? The only conclusion is that [active player] is scum!
  
  B: Or is it? What if the scum wants to keep the most active player to draw suspicion on him? The scum could then head the attack on this player, thus pushing themselves into a position of trust amongst the town! I've got my eye on you, A!
  
  A: No, that isn't right! Clearly, they would stay in the background, and the people who go for the bait like me would be attacked by the scum, thus making themselves appear insightful! B, how dare you do this to me!
  
  B: Or perhaps the scum would be someone voting for a person that isn't the subject of a bandwagon, thus appearing both inconspicuous and independent! [lurker], you are scum!
  
  As you can see here, both A and B are making wild speculations on the motives of the scum. Their votes and eyes are all over the place, and nothing is really getting done. It distracts from real scumhunting, which is seeing people play and making observations from that, not speculating on how people would or would not play.

---

This is my first time modding. If any mistakes are made, in the votecount or in other events, please inform me immediately.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 29, 2012, 07:11:33 pm

Playing IC in.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Nerjin on August 29, 2012, 07:13:57 pm

In

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Scelly9 on August 29, 2012, 07:46:00 pm

PTW

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: wsoxfan on August 29, 2012, 08:16:11 pm

In

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Kamin on August 29, 2012, 10:12:01 pm

In.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Dariush on August 30, 2012, 02:22:56 am

Scum IC in.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on August 30, 2012, 04:47:05 am

In.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Nerjin on August 30, 2012, 11:21:10 am

Quote from: Dariush on August 30, 2012, 02:22:56 am

Scum IC in.

So... does that mean he's not playing but just giving advice? Or does it mean he is playing and that we all vote him instantly?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Hapah on August 30, 2012, 11:23:39 am

The first one.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: markressler on August 30, 2012, 12:08:22 pm

I'm in!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Phantom of The Library on August 30, 2012, 07:37:05 pm

Excellent looking flavor!

Posting to watch.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: vodot on August 31, 2012, 04:09:37 pm

Inxors.  My noobishness knows no bounds.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Hapah on August 31, 2012, 04:10:22 pm

Then you've come to the right place!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: vodot on August 31, 2012, 04:26:22 pm

So... is groovester playing?  Or is he just erupting with advice as the pressure of watching us suck becomes unbearable?

man, just looking at that name in the preview window makes me dizzy.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Hapah on August 31, 2012, 04:28:23 pm

He will be playing. He may be town, he may be scum, but as an IC (Inexperience-Challenged) in the game he will give honest information on game mechanics and will likely provide some advice as well. Jim's good people.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: vodot on August 31, 2012, 05:09:37 pm

Interesting.

Tiruin, how many people are you looking to roll with?  What minimum level of participation are you looking for from your players?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Jim Groovester on August 31, 2012, 05:16:13 pm

This is a nine player setup.

One decent post every 24 hours is the bare minimum of decent participation. More frequent is better.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Tiruin on August 31, 2012, 10:28:09 pm

And all we need now is one more IC and one more player! :D

Come one, come all, I've an axe to grind.

Edit: In all my posts in-game, flavor is in italics, statements relevant to the game are ((in double parentheses)).

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Tiruin on September 02, 2012, 10:49:30 pm

Do sign-ups usually take this long or is it just me?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: blackmagechill on September 02, 2012, 10:57:02 pm

IN. This looks like my last game (actually it's Jim's call here, he said I did pretty good last game), and I intend to post a whole lot.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Tiruin on September 02, 2012, 11:02:27 pm

Alright!

Now all we need is another playing IC in and we can get your ordeal trial started!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 03, 2012, 12:17:57 am

Quote from: blackmagechill on September 02, 2012, 10:57:02 pm

IN. This looks like my last game (actually it's Jim's call here, he said I did pretty good last game), and I intend to post a whole lot.

If you just post more you won't need another BM.

You don't have to run through another to do that.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 03, 2012, 04:22:07 am

Yeah, you don't need as much experience as me.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Nerjin on September 03, 2012, 07:37:18 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 03, 2012, 12:17:57 am

Quote from: blackmagechill on September 02, 2012, 10:57:02 pm

IN. This looks like my last game (actually it's Jim's call here, he said I did pretty good last game), and I intend to post a whole lot.

If you just post more you won't need another BM.

You don't have to run through another to do that.

Shhh... We need more players. There's no harm in getting a bit more experience.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 08:24:24 pm

C'mon, random IC! Let's get this lynch mob started!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Jervill on September 03, 2012, 08:41:43 pm

Post to watch this one too.  Pass the popcorn, Scelly.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Teneb on September 03, 2012, 08:50:20 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

I'd recommend signing up for replacement. BM's tend to have a lot of those. Also PTW.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 08:56:12 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

Looks like the player list has a somewhat questionable spot for BlackMageChill... Maybe you should sign up, Wrex!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Shakerag on September 03, 2012, 10:26:25 pm

My heart goes out to the newbies. 

Playing IC in.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 10:29:50 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 08:56:12 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

Looks like the player list has a somewhat questionable spot for BlackMageChill... Maybe you should sign up, Wrex!

See, the issue is from analyzing a number of mafia gamestates, i'm not quite sure if I count as a "Beginner" any more. For one, I guessed why C9 was borked in about ten seconds.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 10:33:46 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 03, 2012, 10:26:25 pm

My heart goes out to the newbies. 
Playing IC in.

Yayyy!

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 10:29:50 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 08:56:12 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

Looks like the player list has a somewhat questionable spot for BlackMageChill... Maybe you should sign up, Wrex!

See, the issue is from analyzing a number of mafia gamestates, i'm not quite sure if I count as a "Beginner" any more. For one, I guessed why C9 was borked in about ten seconds.

I don't know what this means, but I agree with you.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 10:50:16 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 10:33:46 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 03, 2012, 10:26:25 pm

My heart goes out to the newbies. 
Playing IC in.

Yayyy!

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 10:29:50 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 03, 2012, 08:56:12 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 08:42:55 pm

You need an IC and not a player? Well damn :(. Posting to watch then.

Looks like the player list has a somewhat questionable spot for BlackMageChill... Maybe you should sign up, Wrex!

See, the issue is from analyzing a number of mafia gamestates, i'm not quite sure if I count as a "Beginner" any more. For one, I guessed why C9 was borked in about ten seconds.

I don't know what this means, but I agree with you.

I did the following:

What is this mafia thing?
*Google search mafia wiki*
*Absorb mafia wiki*
So dispite the fact that I have never played the game, I know not to claim NK immune miller vig.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: zombie urist on September 03, 2012, 11:02:21 pm

You're a beginner unless you've played the game here.  :P

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Medieval Mafia Mayhem!
Post by: Tiruin on September 03, 2012, 11:14:33 pm

Alright, BMC, you've been replaced by those who are newer than you and thus need the experience more. Meaning, Wrex has taken the final player slot, and Shakerag has taken the final playing IC slot.

That said, PMs being sent.

Let the trial begin.

((Jim//Shakerag//Dariush//Any Mafia Veteran, just say if BMC can still play in a BM and I will add him to the replacement queue as the first-line.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Shakerag on September 03, 2012, 11:51:37 pm

Based on previous incidents, I'd say if he really wants to be in a BM that much, throw him in the replacement queue but insert newer players ahead of him in the queue (if necessary). 

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 03, 2012, 11:59:05 pm

((So, is this the game thread, or will there be another one posted?))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2012, 12:00:41 am

I'm busy finishing the day 1 flavor. Hold your horses!  :P

((This is the game thread. If anyone has any game-related questions to be asked, hit me thru PM.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2012, 12:12:38 am

"The rain falls on the innocent and wicked alike."

It was a rainy morn. You glance around you as you stretch your sore arms, the climb to the mount on foot was a tedious and perilous journey, and all for what? A trial.

The man leading you here towers above you, stern and gruff in appearance. He is your judge, jury and your executioner.

"Alright, you nine demand a gentleman's trial? You will have it." His voice is low and deep, similar to one used to dealing with prisoners and criminals. "The only survivors of the breach in our most holy fortress, the King has ordered for the truth, but we'll have it your way."

The man spoke on about the events which had occurred in the past fortnight. An act of sabotage so easily covered up (other than the marks of the dead, that is) and the doubt amongst the people of a revolution, basically due to superstitions that 'the ghosts of the past will rise again' including quips and tales about a red moon and all.

Peasants.

To ascertain equality in judgement, the man ordered all doors to the castle barred, and all weaponry confiscated from those present. He then leads you all into the courtyard, where rows upon rows of the commonfolk have gathered. Several stalls and merchant shops lay nearby, servicing the needs for those gathered here. Your leader moves you to the center of the area, and demands silence from the crowds.

"We settle this like nobles, then. If it be your way you want, then I'll alert the blacksmiths. Nobody do any killing, you've all done that at the time you were caught. Nothing but your swords and shields, personal belongings go there...good.

"Now yous nine are probly wondering how you'd get out of this mess, eh? Well rumors tell me that the Templars are back again, and sent in their best men during tha' attack. What I know, is that it failed horribly when the saboteur lit the wrong fuse. What I also know, is that two of them still walk among you, tryin' ta blend in from their disgrace."

He shrugged before gesturing again, moving closer so only you could hear. "Settle it your way. I'll be watching from that stage, hearing your talk from up there. The common folk need to be informed and all."

The man unfurls a sheet of parchment from his satchel and grabs a stick covered with a reddish substance along with it. He also orders a table to be set in the clearing.

"Tally who you want and we end at dusk, beginning the next day and so on until we find those two or whatever. I know if you're cheating, and damned be I, I'd want nobody cheating this gentleman's game. Ye can ask for more time, but I'd love to hear your voices other than the quiet of this blasted place. Used to be a church and all, remade into this abandoned castle...

"It's like a grave, I swear."

He then taps his wrist, to which you see a minute sandglass running.

"You have your time."

---

((Two Templar Knights are hiding amongst you nine. Each day, you may vote off one person for the lynch through the majority.

Days come and go in 72 hours, nights take 48 hours. Weekends are not counted in the timer.

THE GAME HAS STARTED.))

---

Vote standings:

• Nerjin -
• wsoxfan -
• Kamin -
• kingfisher1112 -
• markressler -
• vodot -
• Wrex -
• Jim Groovester -
• Shakerag -

((Day 1 has begun and will end at September 7, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Keep watch, and keep your vigilance!))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Lets's go.
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?
Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?
vodot: Who would you like most as your scumbuddy?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:03:36 am

I'd like you to answer those questions, king.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Dariush on September 04, 2012, 07:05:54 am

Yarr! Avast, ye heretics!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:09:25 am

Quote from: Dariush on September 04, 2012, 07:05:54 am

Yarr! Avast, ye heretics!

Howdy!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 07:36:54 am

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:03:36 am

I'd like you to answer those questions, king.

Q1: One of the IC's. Taking their vote out of the game takes an educated vote out of the game.
Q2: OMGUS.
Q3: Jim. He is an absolute veteran mafia player.

Now, answer the questions I just answered, markressler.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 08:19:23 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 07:36:54 am

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:03:36 am

I'd like you to answer those questions, king.

Q1: One of the IC's. Taking their vote out of the game takes an educated vote out of the game.
Q2: OMGUS.
Q3: Jim. He is an absolute veteran mafia player.

Now, answer the questions I just answered, markressler.

Q1: The less scummy one.
Q2: OMGUS. Yeah, I agree with you.
Q3: Erm, I don't know anybody and it's my first time here, so anyone would be fine.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 10:58:46 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Lets's go.
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?
Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?
vodot: Who would you like most as your scumbuddy?

I'd want the most experienced player here. I don't actually know who that happens to be, but I'm suspicious its Jim Groovestar. In a beginner's game, I'd gladly ride someone else's coattails to glory, not to mention the learning experience it would provide.

Jim, as one of the most experienced players here, how do you plan on reconciling your role in giving advice with your need to avoid the impression that you are scummerifically masterminding the downfall of this hapless newbie town, you scummy scum?

Karmin, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

Wrex, It's you, me and Kamin on Day 10. You're the last scum, and we're 75% certain it's you. What do you do?

What do YOU do in the above scenario, Kamin?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:02:23 am

All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 11:22:13 am

Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)
markressler-if you could be any role that you wanted, which role would you be?
kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 11:22:13 am

Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)
markressler-if you could be any role that you wanted, which role would you be?
kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Lets's go.
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?
Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?
vodot: Who would you like most as your scumbuddy?

I'm not going to answer that question. Mainly because if I do then I'm dead. If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it." Sorry but that seems like a really dangerous question to answer.

I will however answer the non-suicide question to make up for that. Namely the second one: I feel like the most scummy thing someone can do is to lurk. Trying to stay out of sight would really help in not getting caught [I.E. The last B.M.] So I'm against that sort of thing.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

-Snip
vodot: Who would you like most as your scumbuddy?
-snip-

That's an odd question to ask. If he was scum then he'd just say "Oh whomever I know isn't scum." because that leaves his real scum partner free of charge and guarantees that whichever townie is doomed the next day on a lynch. If he isn't scum that just puts him on the block if the person he wants happens to flip scum.

Now if I may ask you some questions sirs?

vodot Why are you voting Jim? Is it random? Are you trying to get rid of the experienced person up-front so that he can't do more damage to your scum based activities?
markressler Why would you claim to be obvious while scum? Are you trying to throw us off your tracks?
Kingfisher Why did you ask so many "Answer honestly for a suicide" questions? Seriously answering those questions honestly basically gives the mafia a free kill or so. What were you trying to get out of them?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:57:38 am

@Nerjin nope, but I see your point. I'm just answering the question based on my past games.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am

[Good day, newlings.  Jim has a fantastic opening speech for these games, so I won't go into much detail right now.]

[You may note that I'm speaking in square brackets.  This is my personal choice to indicate that I'm speaking to you as an IC and not a player.  Anything I say in brackets you can take to be straight advice that is not biased by game information.]

[We here at Bay12 start off the day in the RVS phase.  Here you randomly vote a player and throw out some questions to get discussion started.  This continues until some player spots something, anything suspicious in an answer, and the questions shift from random (yet game-related) questions to questions about behavior in the current game.  You may find it helpful to ask questions that could become relevant later in the game.  I.e. if you ask a player what they would do in situation X as town, and that situation comes up later in the game and they do something different, you may be able to refer back to your RVS question when building a case on that player.]

[Absolutely don't be afraid to ask questions.  This is the most appropriate time and place to be asking questions.  Keep active, moderate your humor, and if you edit your post I will fuck you with a shovel.]

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:03:36 am

I'd like you to answer those questions, king.

[Try to come up with your own content/questions.  If this wasn't a beginner's game, you would have been dragged over the coals already.]

Quote from: Dariush on September 04, 2012, 07:05:54 am

Yarr! Avast, ye heretics!

Suck it, scumbucket.  [Please note, Dariush is not playing.  Do not feed the Dariush.]

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 08:19:23 am

Q1: The less scummy one.

The less scummy one what, markressler?

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 10:58:46 am

In a beginner's game, I'd gladly ride someone else's coattails to glory, not to mention the learning experience it would provide.

[And you'd get lynched for it long before victory.]

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:02:23 am

All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.

[Your first game(s) will likely be horrible.  The ICs are here to help make sure your non-beginner's games won't be.]


[Most people in RVS will ask between one and four questions per post.  I'm going to tag everyone just for the sake of getting everyone involved.]

Nerjin: It's D2 and you're a cop.  You got a town result on someone last night.  You do not know if there are any other power roles.  There are seven players left including yourself.  Do you claim your result today?

wsoxfan: It's N1 and you're a doc.  Your top scumpick was lynched, and you have pretty poor reads on everyone else.  Re-reading through the thread, what do you look for to help you decide who to protect?

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

kingfisher1112: You're scum, and your scumbuddy is telling you that he's reasonably sure the person voting him (who he is voting for already) is the cop.  You have reason to believe there is a doc in the game.  Do you risk being called on chainsawing to mislynch the cop, or try to take him out at night?

markressler: You're a cop who hasn't claimed.  You're in 3-person LYLO.  You have inspected both remaining players as town.  How do you decide which to lynch?  Also, do you claim?

vodot: It's D2, and you're a cop.  The person who you inspected as scum is tied with another player in votes.  Do you claim?

Wrex: It's D2, and you're a doc.  Your protect was not triggered last night. You're tied with another player in votes.  Do you claim?

Jim Groovester: Did you ever think that newbie from BM27 would be ICing with you in a future game?  Also, if you were a godfather and there was a guaranteed cop in the game, would you modify your gameplay?

PPE:

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 11:22:13 am

Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)

Something that wouldn't get me smacked upside the head with a shovel.  By that I mean that I would be doing what any good player should be doing in LYLO - grilling both of the players left and heavily re-reading the thread to make sure I'm voting scum. 

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 12:10:14 pm

@markressler If you cut my pinky in half that is the size of the FOS I throw at you.

Quote from: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am

-snip-

Nerjin: It's D2 and you're a cop.  You got a town result on someone last night.  You do not know if there are any other power roles.  There are seven players left including yourself.  Do you claim your result today?
-snip-

I would not claim my result on D2. That could be key information later on and claiming that early on for something as small as a town result would just get me killed. So I'd be putting my neck into a wood chipper for no reason. However if I were 100% sure that I was about to be fed into the chipper [or however we get lynched in this game. I personally vote for the wood chipper idea. It's silly AND zany.] then I would claim. It's better for me to help the town in death than to just go silently and leave one more guy open to suspicion.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 12:14:47 pm

@Shakerag I said that I'd kill the less scummy player in that situation.

To your question, I'd read the entire game again, to see if one of them slipped. I'd claim, I don't want the maf to impersonate my role and convince the other player that I'm scum. Would try not to believe them at all until I'm completely sure what I'm doing.



wsoxfan It's D2, you are cop. Doc was lynched D1 or killed N2. Everybody's voting you. Do you claim?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:02:23 am

All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.

Just do your best, Mark... no lame Excuses.

All, major apologies, but I'm Requesting Replacement.  This weekend IRL rose up and bit me in the ass to the point where I'm not going to be able to play a high-quality game for at least two months.

PPE (I):

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

vodot Why are you voting Jim? Is it random? Are you trying to get rid of the experienced person up-front so that he can't do more damage to your scum based activities?

I'm suggesting that he might serve the town better dead than alive, yes.  A dead Jim is still our IC, minus all of his potential scummery.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

...If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it...

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

... If he was scum then he'd just say "Oh whomever I know isn't scum." because that leaves his real scum partner free of charge and guarantees that whichever townie is doomed the next day on a lynch. If he isn't scum that just puts him on the block if the person he wants happens to flip scum....

Oh Nerjin, your rationale is slimy and smells of odorlessly poisoned WINE— I'd bet my life on it.

Answer the questions.

PPE (II):

Quote from: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am

vodot: It's D2, and you're a cop.  The person who you inspected as scum is tied with another player in votes.  Do you claim?

Assuming this setup?  No. If I know there's a doctor, then possibly; but even then, what guarantees that the doctor believes me and saves me N2?  Halving the ranks of the scum is attractive, but I don't think it would be worth losing the cop for the rest of the game.

Now, if I get 'em both, then I claim and try like hell to sway the town without sounding like a scummy scummuffin.  That might be more difficult here than it is in-person, though.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 12:38:40 pm

Oh Nerjin, your rationale is slimy and smells of odorlessly poisoned WINE— I'd bet my life on it.

Answer the questions.

What questions? You didn't ask any questions. You basically said "You are scum because I said." Give me a question to answer and I'll answer it vodot Also, if you are voting for me it has to be in Red.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 01:04:29 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 12:38:40 pm

What questions? You didn't ask any questions. You basically said "You are scum because I said." Give me a question to answer and I'll answer it vodot Also, if you are voting for me it has to be in Red.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Lets's go.
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?

I'm not going to answer that question.

That Question, Nerjin.  *sigh* And way to not defend your fermented rationale.  Aaaand thanks for the blue text, sans explanation.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 01:18:08 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 01:04:29 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

-snip

That Question, Nerjin.  *sigh* And way to not defend your fermented rationale.  Aaaand thanks for the blue text, sans explanation.

The blue text is “Finger of Suspicion” to my knowledge. Sorry about that. I forget this sort of thing from time to time. It just means I’m suspicious of you but not quite so much as to actually vote you.
My reasoning for not answering the question is this:
The goal of scum is to kill as many players as quickly as possible right?
So they’d want to lynch like crazy true?
So if I said I’d kill “X” then I’d answer the question. Simple enough. However “Y” the scum knows this now. So that night he kills “X”. Everyone else, including Y, would know about my “desire” to lynch “X”. So then I’d be on the chopping block. Then I die freeing up “Y” to kill again the next night with a net-loss of about 4 [2 lynches, me, and the next night kill.]
I just don’t think giving the scum that sort of opportunity is wise.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 01:49:10 pm

And now the witch-Hunt begins.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Talk about a lot of questions! I'm just going to post these in order without quoting, since sifting through everything takes forever.

Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?

Probably unjustified bandwagoning on the first day. I haven't seen it yet, but I DO think I've seen some signs of OMGUS, which is also pretty scummy.

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

Wrex, It's you, me and Kamin on Day 10. You're the last scum, and we're 75% certain it's you. What do you do? What do YOU do in the above scenario, Kamin?

25% chance of me being wrong? You can bet your ass I'd be going through all of your old posts and seeing if you appeared to throw anybody under the bus or participated in a deal of unjustified bandwagoning. Still, 75% is better than 25%, so after spending forever and a half sifting through responses, I'd most likely come to the same conclusion as before and lynch. Scrutiny is always important, though, especially if there's a lot of WiFoM--everybody is fallible.

kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

What is the context? First night? Last night? The context would definitely change my criteria.

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

Solid question, but as my other LYLO question above, I'd go through ALL of the pertinent info. I'd crosscheck FoS, votes, and the like to see who is the most scummy. Just because there's not an OBVIOUS hole in a claim doesn't mean there aren't any.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

Nerjin: You're pretty quick with that FoS... Is it the OMGUSFoS?

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 02:39:49 pm

[Some observational notes:]

[Everyone: Think of the discussion in this game like flowing water, and you all are pipes.  If your post is just an answer to a question, the flow stops there.  If the flow stops, then the water stagnates.  Then nothing happens. 
Try to have some "output" in most (if not all) of your posts.  Ask a new question.  Ask a follow-up question.  Apply pressure.  Get someone's thoughts on something happening in the thread.]

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?

I'm not going to answer that question. Mainly because if I do then I'm dead. If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it." Sorry but that seems like a really dangerous question to answer.

[This is a favorite topic of Jim's, but I'll go ahead and make a point here.  Trying to dissect why the scumteam killed someone is going to be almost always fruitless.  This is a perfect example of WIFOM.  Keep your attention focused on the day game.]

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 12:10:14 pm

@markressler If you cut my pinky in half that is the size of the FOS I throw at you.

[Why are you FoSing him?]


Unvote

[Nerjin: Please use quotes when quoting other players.]

[vodot: Blue text is for FoSing a player's name, not ... whatever the hell it is you're doing.]

Wrex: You have two outstanding questions.  Why aren't you answering them?

[Kamin: Don't quote that way.  It's god-awfully horrible for the rest of us to follow.  Even if you're not going to use the built-in quote function on the forum, at least indicate a name and post number as reference to what you're replying to.  Example (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108236.msg3281575#msg3281575).]

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

[You believe wrong.  Scum has a guaranteed IC that isn't a player.  In this game, that role is being filled by Dariush.  The two playing ICs have as equal of a chance as anyone else to be scum.  BM33 - Both ICs were on the scumteam.  Many games neither IC is on the scumteam.  Sometimes just one of the ICs is on the scumteam.  You can't make assumptions to that effect. 

To answer your question, my number one scumtell is getting caught in a lie.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 02:45:15 pm

I would rather not answer that question. Generally because claiming doctor is a terrible idea, unless it is LYLO. If I were scum, I would live. If I were not scum, I would be shot.


Vodot, you seem.... particularly accusatory. As does Kamin, actually.


If you were 75% sure that I was scum, you better belive I would be coming through your post to prove you were the traitor.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 01:18:08 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 01:04:29 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

-snip

That Question, Nerjin.  *sigh* And way to not defend your fermented rationale.  Aaaand thanks for the blue text, sans explanation.

The blue text is “Finger of Suspicion” to my knowledge. Sorry about that. I forget this sort of thing from time to time. It just means I’m suspicious of you but not quite so much as to actually vote you.

I know what the blue text means... I was commenting on your lack of reasoning to assign it to me (unless, of course, the reason is simply 'Oh, Marbles. Go Upstream, Salmon!')

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 01:18:08 pm

My reasoning for not answering the question is this:
The goal of scum is to kill as many players as quickly as possible right?
So they’d want to lynch like crazy true?
So if I said I’d kill “X” then I’d answer the question. Simple enough. However “Y” the scum knows this now. So that night he kills “X”. Everyone else, including Y, would know about my “desire” to lynch “X”. So then I’d be on the chopping block.
Then I die freeing up “Y” to kill again the next night with a net-loss of about 4 [2 lynches, me, and the next night kill.]
I just don’t think giving the scum that sort of opportunity is wise.

And I don't think you would need to be concerned, Nerjin, because the attempt to lynch you on D2 just because "X" died N1 would be scummy wrapped in a scummy blanket:

Spoiler: WIFOM example: (click to show/hide)

"But he SAID he wanted "X" to die and *gasp!* "X" died!  LYNCH HIM!!" 

The obvious follow up is: "But what if the mafia wanted to make it look like he killed "X"?  He's Clean!"

And so on: "But what if he knew that we would think that the mafia might have framed him, and he actually did just kill "X" anyway!? 

And what if we knew that we knew that they knew...

That's called WIFOM, or "wine in front of me" and it is a pointless exercise that adds no new information to the town. 

TL;DR
I wouldn't lynch you D2 if your D1 "X" died, because the fact of "X's" death provides me with zero real additional information.

PPE(I):

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel.  :)

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

I'm not proud of it... but I would probably just NK the suspicious player.  I prefer direct solutions, and in my in-person experience it rarely pays to allow a smart suspicious player to live.

It would completely depend on the weakness of the suspecting player, however, and the degree to which he appears capable of influencing the town.

PPE(II):

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 02:45:15 pm

I would rather not answer that question. Generally because claiming doctor is a terrible idea, unless it is LYLO. If I were scum, I would live. If I were not scum, I would be shot.


Vodot, you seem.... particularly accusatory. As does Kamin, actually.

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.


You want answers? You got answers. Claiming Doc, as previously stated, is stupid, because you might as well tape a sign to your back that reads "Shoot me". Unless it is absolutely, 100% sure that it is LYLO and it is essential that you are not lynched and there will not be another round. I would not claim doctor unless the other person was giving some sort of monologue designed to make other people look bad to save his own skin E.G Vodot. You could easily cause a WIFOM with the questions you ask, which are pointed as weapons at anyone that catches your fancy. You appear to be giving the town misinformaiton, more than anything.

As for the other question, if you were 75% sure I was scum, you better belive I would be hunting down as much information as I could to prove you false. At that point, claiming would be appropriate. The only issue would be support whatever claim is appropriate.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:27:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel.  :)

It's alright, I forgive you--shovels seem a bit too extreme for my nether-regions as well  :P

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

So to answer you, I'm going to take a few things into consideration. If I was scum, I imagine I'd probably pick an experienced player, whichever one (or two) wasn't on my side. This is because experienced players are death to scum. If I wasn't scum, I'd still be extremely worried about a scum IC. The problem is that there's not enough info right now and I'm completely in the dark, so if I had to pick right now, I'd stick with my current vote against Mark.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.


PPE: Also...

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 01:49:10 pm

And now the witch-Hunt begins.

You were pretty awake when you posted that almost 2 hours ago, and trying to sleep for over 12 hours when you're not tired seems... Unnecessary. Why would you post while you were trying to sleep?  :-\

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:32:24 pm

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:41:46 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:32:24 pm

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

[I'm really sorry if you're having trouble sleeping and all IRL, don't feel like I'm actually attacking you--it's all in good fun!]

A real cop would never do that on the first day. Probably scum. Vote to lynch.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:58:36 pm

((Excuse my lack of questions, I'm quite busy irl right now))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 04, 2012, 04:30:31 pm

As mentioned by Shakerag, here's the speech.

Spoiler: The Speech (click to show/hide)

Now that the game has started and I am now responsible for teaching seven of you how to play a game, I will say the following first.

I will be a completely impartial source of advice that I will freely give at every opportunity, whether I am asked for it or I decide to give it on my own. You can trust that everything I have to say will be given in good faith, even if it comes at a personal cost to me in this game. If you do not listen to what I have to say, for any reason, you will severely hamper your ability to learn how to play the game. So, to reiterate,

Listen to what I tell you.

If you don't, then what's the point of me being here?

For those of you who don't know what to do, games usually start with the Random Vote Stage. You should pick a target randomly, vote them, and ask them a question. The sole purpose of this is to get conversation going when there would otherwise be no reason to do that. I'll start.

Boltur, let's say it's late in Day 1. The person about to be lynched is somebody you think is town, while your target is only a few votes away from being in the lead. Do you extend and try to change people's minds or do you wait and see what happens?

Ideally you should ask game related questions in the RVS. Asking what kind of flavor of ice cream is a player's favorite does absolutely nothing to help you find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

Since many of you are going to have no idea what to do and will mangle scumhunting in just about every possible way, it does you no good to hold back. So be bold, and just do the best you can. Ask lots of questions, try to get a good feel for how the game is played. I'll be there to help you when you go wrong.

Additionally, before anybody else does anything, I will stress the importance of activity. You should be as active as possible. A good guideline is to get one good post in a day, but if you can post productively more often than that it's generally a good idea to do so. As a player, town or scum, being active and visible is very much an asset, as you're out there making yourself readable, and this is considered a town quality. While there are very good personal benefits to being active, the reverse is detrimental to the whole game. Low activity makes games hard to play or outright kills them. This is fun for absolutely no one, so make a good effort and be active.

If you played a Beginner's Game before you probably recognize this spiel, but it's good all the same.

Unfortunately this game started late last night when I was too tired to post, and now I'm stuck at school with less than fifteen minutes to hack a post together, so I'll get around to asking and answering questions sometime later tonight. It seems the game started off well enough without me, so that's a good sign.

In the meantime, if you're not being active, start, and if you're not trying to find scum, start.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

Except that part where you logged in here 30 minutes ago to not answer a question and vote for me.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

You want answers? You got answers. Claiming Doc, as previously stated, is stupid, because you might as well tape a sign to your back that reads "Shoot me". Unless it is absolutely, 100% sure that it is LYLO and it is essential that you are not lynched and there will not be another round.

You wouldn't claim doctor if you were on the block with majority?  If you were facing a hammer?

I would.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

I would not claim doctor unless the other person was giving some sort of monologue designed to make other people look bad to save his own skin provide the town with more information. E.G Vodot.

Fixed.  Save my own skin? I came under suspicion as a result of my questions, not vice-versa. 

Let's assume I was giving the town misinformation. How exactly would a doctor claim help in that situation?  Or are you merely grafting your dislike of me onto the end of your sentence because I'm making you uncomfortable?*

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

You could easily cause a WIFOM with the questions you ask, which are pointed as weapons at anyone that catches your fancy. You appear to be giving the town misinformaiton, more than anything.

Initiating WIFOM is probably the result of an answer, and not the question. Which questions that I've asked are you concerned about?

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

This is just a blatant counter-vote, and it's scummy.  Kamin votes mark -> mark votes Kamin.

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.

unvote.

Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

Jim, Another question: You're scum and your noobly partner has basically bungled up D1, OMGUSing and WIFOMing all over heaven.  What advice do you give him?  How badly does he have to eff the scum game up before you simply bus him and move on?

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:32:24 pm

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.

Lame, Lame, LAME!

*"grafting" was a reach, I admit it.

PPE:
Jim is alive!  Please answer my questions, good sir, or i shalt lynch thee forsooth.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 04:59:30 pm

Mkay! I have some time now to actually do some questions.

@vodot, yeah, it was a counter-vote, I can't argue with that.

@Wrex, you prefer to start bandwagons or jump into them? Regardless being maf or town.

@Jim, D2, you got a guilty on somebody. What do you do to convince the others to lynch that guy? Or do you wait to make your move? (no need to claim).

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum." Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game. How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of? Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:15:04 pm

@Kamin, I've already said why I said that: I'm not a native english-speaker, sometimes I find it difficult to defend myself. What I've meant to say it's that I always look scummy for everybody, because I don't come up with the right words.

Is this the first time you play a game of forum mafia? I'm just curious.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 05:27:29 pm

@Mark: Why do people bandwagon in the first place? I would join a bandwagon, and only If I was absolutely assured of that person's guilt.


Now, the misinformation I am concerned about is your...agressive? interogation style. You are fingering everybody when at this stage of the game, such an agressive approach does nothing but draw attention to yourself.


So, Vodot, I have a question for you: d2. You examine someone, and they are guilty. However, you -may- be playing with a bastard mod. Do you trust your results?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:39:29 pm

@Wrex, I was just asking. And I'm not being agressive at all... you think that? Does everybody thinks I'm being agressive?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:41:46 pm

I'm also not fingering anybody, Wrex, are you sure you are reading everything?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 05:41:54 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:39:29 pm

@Wrex, I was just asking. And I'm not being agressive at all... you think that? Does everybody thinks I'm being agressive?

The earlier comment was dirrected at Vodot, I should have been more specific :(

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:42:36 pm

Well, I'm fingering Kamin, but it's a counter-vote most of all. Won't last long there.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:43:03 pm

Oh, excuse me, then, haha.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:07:37 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 04:59:30 pm

Mkay! I have some time now to actually do some questions.

@vodot, yeah, it was a counter-vote, I can't argue with that.

I appreciate the honesty, Mark, but the fact that your vote was an OMGUS wasn't really in dispute.  The real question is: Why do you feel so threatened right now that you're voting for someone for absolutely no reason other than they voted for you?  Here, I'll try: Is it because you know that you are absolutely the most vulnerable and overexposed player in this game, at the moment?

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum."

Don't go after me for calling out the fact that you didn't state your reasons clearly.  I know you can retroactively make explicit some implicit reason for your having voted someone, but the point is that you didn't make it explicit when you voted... probably because you didn't really have a solid reason. You just bandwagoned him based on a feeling, on D1.  And that's scummy.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game.

I'll admit it, that was pretty good.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of?

Taking five questions at once is a lot of pressure, and a lot of exposure for a shifty person like you to try and deal with.  Looking back, you're right: no one was directly accusing or voting you.  But for a player with more than one game under their belt, I find it interesting that your first vote out of the gate was a bandwagon on poor, language-hampered (feigned or not), vulnerable mark.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration.

But bandwagoning is all about timing, and when you cast the vote, it WAS bandwagoning.  Yes, or No?

And RE:Your potential hypocrisy, I agree, and I'd have to chuckle about it.  Kind of like I am now, actually. :)

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 05:27:29 pm

Now, the misinformation I am concerned about is your...agressive? interogation style. You are fingering everybody when at this stage of the game, such an aggressive approach does nothing but draw attention to yourself.

Ick, ick.  I'll agree that it draws attention to myself, but only because there is a vacuum of other interrogation going on.  The rest of what you said is just slimy and gross. Read the IC posts, or read through a few of the other games, please.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 05:27:29 pm

So, Vodot, I have a question for you: d2. You examine someone, and they are guilty. However, you -may- be playing with a bastard mod. Do you trust your results?

...No...?  I might not be familiar with bastard mod (unreliable narrator, right?), but that just seems like a pointless question to me.  "A potentially unreliable person gives you information.  Do you trust it?"

Am I missing a wrinkle here, Wrex, or are you just asking a question to ask a question?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:10:20 pm

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 06:14:34 pm

Not quite. The question does in fact, have a point.


So Markressler, Why do you feel so vulnerable?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:18:00 pm

@Wrex, I do really have to answer that again? I'm a bit handicapped with the language, sometimes I try to explain something and I end making the situation worse. As it happened before, here. I'm trying to overcome that, though. So, Wrex, once again I ask you, are you reading everything?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:19:31 pm

Also, unvote. Since I've admitted to vote just as a counter-vote, there's no point to not unvote.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:29:17 pm

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Hapah on September 04, 2012, 06:31:19 pm

Hang on guys, I got this.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:34:03 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:29:17 pm

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

6 v 2? You meant 5 v 2?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Hapah on September 04, 2012, 06:34:47 pm

(Sorry if I'm intruding, Tir!)

To save someone the trouble of digging it up, I include a rant that Book gave to me on the subject of D1 lynches.

Quote from: Bookthras

I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.

Quote from: Bookthras on May 08, 2012, 09:31:27 pm

Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.

A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 07:22:06 pm

Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),

Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104547.msg3146622#msg3146622)) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.

So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.


Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:39:07 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:34:03 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:29:17 pm

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

6 v 2? You meant 5 v 2?

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 06:51:15 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

-snip-
Nerjin: You're pretty quick with that FoS... Is it the OMGUSFoS?
-snip-

No. It’s simply the fact that I don’t know what everyone else is.  Over time the suspicion will fade replaced by knowledge.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 06:58:44 pm

Very sorry, I was sleeping. Don't have time for a full read, but remember, instead of just continuing to gather info on one dude who is very scummy, continue to gather info.
Nerjin: To answer your question on page 4. Those are dangerous and difficult questions to answer, and I think it gleans good information more so then " Do you like turtles" It's heavy shit. Asking " What would you do in X situation" again does little.
Shakerag: I would try and vote someone else. Voting the cop head on is dangerous, I'd go for a Nightkill.

I'm not jumping on the EasyLynchMobile yet. I have somewhere to be very soon.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 07:04:33 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 06:58:44 pm

-snip-
Nerjin: To answer your question on page 4. Those are dangerous and difficult questions to answer, and I think it gleans good information more so then " Do you like turtles" It's heavy shit. Asking " What would you do in X situation" again does little.
-snip-

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

-snip-
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?
-snip-

Fair enough. I do like turtles by the way. But I suppose if I had to pick right this second who I would lynch as mafia it would be you. Mainly because you keep asking me questions so I'd want to avoid attention as much as possible. Now kingfisher who is your top suspect right now? Who would you be most afraid of if you were mafia?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 04, 2012, 07:11:12 pm

Quote from: Hapah on September 04, 2012, 06:34:47 pm

<Lynch on D1>

Hapah, you da man, that's what I was looking for.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 06:14:34 pm

Not quite. The question does in fact, have a point.

So what was it, Wrex?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 08:46:21 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am

wsoxfan: It's N1 and you're a doc.  Your top scumpick was lynched, and you have pretty poor reads on everyone else.  Re-reading through the thread, what do you look for to help you decide who to protect?

I'd look to see which group of people seems to be interacting the least. While on D2 that's not a certain giveaway, it helps to narrow it down. From there, I look at each person in the possible group(or mulitple) and see who was bandwagoning, or simply laying low. I'd then make a case from there.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 12:14:47 pm

wsoxfan It's D2, you are cop. Doc was lynched D1 or killed N2. Everybody's voting you. Do you claim?

I wouldn't roleclaim unless I had good reason too, as it's D2 it would largely be seen as a scummy move, which wouldn't be helping my case at all.
Wrex

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 05:27:29 pm

@Mark: Why do people bandwagon in the first place? I would join a bandwagon, and only If I was absolutely assured of that person's guilt.

You essentially answered your own question without answering Marks. Is this a question that you would like to leave unanswered for later in the game?

Quote

Now, the misinformation I am concerned about is your...agressive? interogation style. You are fingering everybody when at this stage of the game, such an agressive approach does nothing but draw attention to yourself.

Shouldn't he want to finger everyone? That in itself isn't aggresive. It's what he should be doing at this point in the game. Is there any reason why he would want others to scumhunt for him? Also, why haven't you been asking more people questions? Are you satisfied that you've found sucm, Wrex?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane. Replacement Needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2012, 09:32:05 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

All, major apologies, but I'm Requesting Replacement.  This weekend IRL rose up and bit me in the ass to the point where I'm not going to be able to play a high-quality game for at least two months.

((Erp. I blame timezones and sleep stopping me from entertaining this.))

"Hey, peasant! Yes you! Could you fetch me a refreshment?"

"You can do that? We're in the middle of a trial!"

"There's nothing stating I can't do that."

blackmagechill has been sent a PM for replacing vodot.

Awaiting confirmation.

---

---

Quote from: Hapah on September 04, 2012, 06:34:47 pm

(Sorry if I'm intruding, Tir!)

Have some of Phantom of the Library's popcorn.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2012, 09:35:29 pm

”Tarry not, waste not.
Time is precious, and as countless as the sand in the sea.
Everything has it's time.”

“What the hell is this? Who are these people?!”
“Calm down Sir Knight! Maybe it’s a code of some sort?”
“A code with Arabic numbers? Arabic numbers?! Look at this man’s name!”
“Err, that would be me.”

As the knights bickered, they failed to notice the parchment moving on it’s own volition despite being struck to the table by a dagger.

”Hello there!”

The light, mellow voice caught their attention.

“Who in blazes said that? I-…You have to be kidding. What is this?”
”I’m the map!”
“You’re a sheet of parchment.”
”I’m an enchanted sheet of parchment...

“As my master is busy calming the peasants, I’ll be keeping mark of all your votes. Your real names have been disguised, so if you somehow die here, your house and family won’t be held to shame. Yes, an Arab made me and sold me, a bargain really, about seventy p-”

But the knights were back to their bickering, leaving the ol’ sheet of paper talking to itself in the background.

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (1) - Kamin
• vodot (1) - Wrex
• Wrex (1) - Shakerag
• Jim Groovester (0) -
• Shakerag (0) -

Not voting: Nerjin, wsoxfan, kingfisher1112, markressler, vodot, Jim Groovester

((Day 1 will end at September 7, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance!))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 10:05:13 pm

It's true, I haven't asked many questions. I personally thought I answered Mark's question precisely, so the answer would be "prefer to join bandwagon".

The point of the question I addresed to you, Vodot? I needed to assess your level of trust, although trust in a game of mafia is much like a carp on fire.
Now, I would disagree that fingering everyone is a good idea. You will simnply get more stress responses from unskilled players. If you are going for a shot in the dark, which at some point we will have to make, then why would you fire it at the player with the least ability to cause harm? At the same time, being highly agressive is the best way to disguise yourself . Who would hang the most agressive defender of the town, after all? It is, qute simply, the perfect cover.

So, Wsoxfan, answer me this: What is your opinion of bandwagoning?
And Vodot, How is this information you are gathering going to benefit the town?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 11:31:35 pm

My opinion on bandwagoning? It should only be done if you're absolutely convinced that the bandwagonee is scum.
 As I am PFPing right now, its easier to just write my comments as I go rather than provide the related text.
You have to examine each player in order to determine if they are indeed the least harmful, or if they're actually the most harmful. I'm not saying by any stretch that the most aggressive questioner is always town-I'm simply saying that the method isn't scummy. Conversely, i believe not asking many questions is a large scumtell.

Also, while a mini-OMGUS isn't quite as much of a scumtell as a full size one, that doesn't mean it doesn't get suspicion. Was this FOS simply due to mine on you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Jesus Christ.

This is what I get for the first day in a BM.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 07:36:54 am

Q2: OMGUS.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 08:19:23 am

Q2: OMGUS. Yeah, I agree with you.

Pfffft, silly noobs.

Only terrible players OMGUS without reason. If someone OMGUSes but otherwise has good reasons for their vote, then it doesn't really matter that it's an OMGUS.

Quote from: Shakerag on September 04, 2012, 11:59:45 am

Jim Groovester: Did you ever think that newbie from BM27 would be ICing with you in a future game?  Also, if you were a godfather and there was a guaranteed cop in the game, would you modify your gameplay?

Talent's easy to spot. I didn't specifically think, "One day, this kid is going to be an IC alongside me someday," but it was pretty easy to see that if you stuck with the game you'd do pretty well.

They grow up so quickly. Brings tears to my eye.

As to your question, hell no. I like to think I play a pretty good scum game, so getting a result of town on me as Godfather would be a tremendous advantage. And as an IC, I'm probably higher on the list of targets to be inspected than other players, as demonstrated last Beginner's Mafia with Deathsword inspecting me.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 11:49:24 am

I'm not going to answer that question. Mainly because if I do then I'm dead. If I said for example "I say -Player- because -reasons-" then the scum will just kill -Player- and then the next day you'd say something along the lines of "When I asked -Question- on day 1 you said -Player- and now they're dead. You obviously had something to do with it." Sorry but that seems like a really dangerous question to answer.

Paranoia like this is usually an obstacle in mafia.

Scum teams rarely connive like you're giving them credit for. Read any scum chat. They're almost always more worried about getting detected and avoiding being lynched than trying to think of tricky ways to dupe the town and supervillainous plotting.

That's not to say it doesn't happen, but for the most part it's usually not worth bothering with.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 07:03:36 am

I'd like you to answer those questions, king.

Hell of a way to start off the game, by demanding someone answer the questions they themselves asked.

Why did you ask kingfisher111111111111112 to do that?

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Are you this obvious?

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 04:59:30 pm

@Jim, D2, you got a guilty on somebody. What do you do to convince the others to lynch that guy? Or do you wait to make your move? (no need to claim).

If the evidence is there to lynch him and it's good evidence, then I do that.

Otherwise, I'd consider claiming my result immediately.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:39:29 pm

@Wrex, I was just asking. And I'm not being agressive at all... you think that? Does everybody thinks I'm being agressive?

Why are you worried about this?

Being aggressive isn't a problem. You should strive to effectively scumhunt and be aggressive while you do so.

You're kind of freaking out. Why? People figure out you're scum?

If you weren't inexperienced I'd probably be voting you for this.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum." Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game.

You say it is, but how about you tell me how it is.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

That's not really an assumption you can safely make.

I can't really say that there's a #1 scum tell that gives a player away 100% of the time. I can list a bunch of scumtells I think give away players a majority of the time, but it's never a sure thing with scum tells.

Panicking under pressure, voting with poor or no reasons, lazy bandwagoning, showing little interest in hunting, intentionally avoiding answering questions, are all scum tells I think strongly indicate that a player is scum. There are others I'm probably forgetting.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 10:58:46 am

Jim, as one of the most experienced players here, how do you plan on reconciling your role in giving advice with your need to avoid the impression that you are scummerifically masterminding the downfall of this hapless newbie town, you scummy scum?

This question was asked before I delivered my speech, but I answer it by pointing out that I am honor-bound to provide genuine advice even if it's at cost to me.

And I can do both, mastermind a scum victory and give genuine advice. Easily. If I do it right, I won't give the impression that I'm masterminding anything, because that would naturally be detrimental to actually winning the game as scum.

And it takes little effort to win as scum in a Beginner's Mafia. No need to mastermind anything. It's easy to win when no one knows what the hell they're doing.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

I'm suggesting that he might serve the town better dead than alive, yes.  A dead Jim is still our IC, minus all of his potential scummery.

That's not an argument to lynch me. That's not an argument to lynch anyone.

You need a reason to think somebody is scum. You can't vote players based on how dangerous they are.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

Assuming this setup?  No. If I know there's a doctor, then possibly; but even then, what guarantees that the doctor believes me and saves me N2?  Halving the ranks of the scum is attractive, but I don't think it would be worth losing the cop for the rest of the game.

I'd actually seriously recommend claiming immediately on finding a guilty result. In this setup, it's impossible for anyone except mafia to come up guilty, so if you get a guilty result as Cop you know for certain that that player is scum.

Finding the final scum is considerably easier once the first one flips, so even though it's likely a cop will die immediately after claiming, on the whole I think it's a plus.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

Jim, Another question: You're scum and your noobly partner has basically bungled up D1, OMGUSing and WIFOMing all over heaven.  What advice do you give him?  How badly does he have to eff the scum game up before you simply bus him and move on?

I first tell him to stay calm, because staying calm is the single best thing a scum player can do. And then I tell him to stop being paranoid, that if he answers questions well he can totally salvage his situation, and then I tell him he needs to start looking like he's hunting, but not in a way that looks like it's in reaction to external pressure.

Then I tell him to take my advice on how to scumhunt and such.

Since it's Day 1 in a Beginner's Mafia, I can probably avoid bussing him, and if it's possible to avoid bussing without giving myself away then that's what I would do. In any other game, he'd be dead.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

PPE:
Jim is alive!  Please answer my questions, good sir, or i shalt lynch thee forsooth.

Can't lynch me if you don't vote for me.

Which you did lines above this statement.

Is there any reason why all your questions directed towards me are from the scum perspective?

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:07:37 pm

Sentence

by

sentence

attack

Was it really necessary to respond to Kamin sentence by sentence?

Honestly, I have trouble following what the hell you're getting at, and since I've already been at this for four hours I don't really feel like spending any more time trying to figure it out.

I harp on this a lot in Beginner's Mafias, but only because I think it's important: You should be trying to communicate your points as effectively as possible for the purpose of convincing everyone that your targets' are the right ones for the lynch. When you deconstruct it sentence by sentence, you may think you're doing a scathing attack, but in actuality nobody knows what the hell you're talking about.

You need to remember that the players in this game don't have infinite time to read everything, so the faster and easier you get your points across the faster everyone can play this game. Since forum mafia's already take forever, every little bit helps. So I strongly recommend you respond concisely and list your points in as concise manner as feasible.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:07:37 pm

Taking five questions at once is a lot of pressure, and a lot of exposure for a shifty person like you to try and deal with.  Looking back, you're right: no one was directly accusing or voting you.  But for a player with more than one game under their belt, I find it interesting that your first vote out of the gate was a bandwagon on poor, language-hampered (feigned or not), vulnerable mark.

Check your facts, eager beaver. This is Kamin's first game.

I think. In any case, I've been IC for the past thirteen out of fifteen games, and this is the first I've seen him, so I think it's a fair bet it's his first time.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:29:17 pm

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

Lynching is always better than not lynching. As town, the lynch is how you win the game. If you choose not to use it you severely handicap yourself.

I like to say that the lynch's primary purpose is investigative, because that's what you should be using it as: confirmation of whether you top suspect is scum or not. Its secondary purpose (erroneously listed as its primary purpose) is to remove players from the game, which is how the town wins. By considering it as an investigative tool, you make sure that you use to constantly refine and reconsider your suspicions so that hopefully you end up lynching scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 03:05:44 am

Alright Wrex, coming off the back of Lurk-O-BM, when did you decide it was a good idea to lurk. Why are you not questioning? Also, why did you vote Vodot with only the statement " He seems pretty accusatory."? You have constantly made short posts, and have made no effort to question. So please tell me the reason.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 03:12:38 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Jesus Christ.

This is what I get for the first day in a BM.

Dammit, I meant missing the first day.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:42:04 am

@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.

And yeah, Wrex, you are asking less questions than me. Why?

Also, King, you are not asking a lot of questions neither, why do you jump against Wrex?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:44:55 am

Also, Jim, I forgot to answer, yeah, I tend to freak out sometimes whether my alignment is because my lack of experience. Let some day pass and I will be more sure about what to do/what not to do.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:49:11 am

Re-reading things, Wrex did more questions than you, king, your reason to vote him is a bit suspicious.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 09:49:30 am

I have school. And sleep. And things like that. Then again, you seem to have been fairly reactionary, instead of asking questions. But, Wrex seems suspicious.
Nerjin: Please answer the question.
Wsoxfan: Please rank your top three scumpicks.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 09:57:32 am

I have school, too. And sleep. And things like that, and I'm even asking more questions than you, despite it being 'reactionary', as you claim.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 09:59:27 am

Half of your posts seem to be reactions to accusations, and unfortunately most things happen at around midnight here.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:03:25 am

And more than half of your posts seem to be evading questions and don't asking anything. I see your lack of activity, your evasion and your excuses really suspicious. The reasons you are giving are a bit hypocrite.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:10:02 am

Evading questions. Evading. Questions. Accuse me of something, you're probably right. But I have not evaded questions. You are really starting to set off my scumdar. Getting in a reread now.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:11:50 am

My fault, Wrex was the one evading questions. Regardless of that, I think all the other reasons are still valid.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:17:25 am

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

Alright. This little gem REALLY set me off. Really. This post is incredibly scummy. This says to me " You nasty man, I have no reason to vote you. Oh wait, it's RVS. VOTE VOTE VOTE. "  How in the hell does RVS give a legitimate reason to vote? And you say luckily which REALLY sets off all kinds of alarms.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:20:13 am

Quote from: Nerjin on September 04, 2012, 07:04:33 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 06:58:44 pm

-snip-
Nerjin: To answer your question on page 4. Those are dangerous and difficult questions to answer, and I think it gleans good information more so then " Do you like turtles" It's heavy shit. Asking " What would you do in X situation" again does little.
-snip-

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 04, 2012, 12:53:54 am

-snip-
Nerjin: If you were mafia, who would you kill?
-snip-

Fair enough. I do like turtles by the way. But I suppose if I had to pick right this second who I would lynch as mafia it would be you. Mainly because you keep asking me questions so I'd want to avoid attention as much as possible. Now kingfisher who is your top suspect right now? Who would you be most afraid of if you were mafia?

Sorry this slipped my net. I would be most afraid of the IC's and the most suspicious person is markressler.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:21:09 am

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:42:04 am

@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.

And yeah, Wrex, you are asking less questions than me. Why?

Also, King, you are not asking a lot of questions neither, why do you jump against Wrex?

You need to jump on people, or nothing gets done.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:24:21 am

I've already agreed that the counter-vote was stupid of me. I said that we were 'luckily' in the RVS because we have the chance to be mistaken, and still pull it off. I don't think I'd vote this happily if we are in D4 or something.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:25:47 am

Yes, you need to jump on people to get things started, but you weren't the best example of someone that can jump on somebody without being suspicious.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:33:25 am

Everything is suspicious in mafia.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Kamin, you're voting mark.  What do you think of Mark and King's ongoing argument? Is it changing your mind?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

Jim, Another question: You're scum and your noobly partner has basically bungled up D1, OMGUSing and WIFOMing all over heaven.  What advice do you give him?  How badly does he have to eff the scum game up before you simply bus him and move on?

I first tell him to stay calm, because staying calm is the single best thing a scum player can do. And then I tell him to stop being paranoid, that if he answers questions well he can totally salvage his situation, and then I tell him he needs to start looking like he's hunting, but not in a way that looks like it's in reaction to external pressure.

Then I tell him to take my advice on how to scumhunt and such.

Since it's Day 1 in a Beginner's Mafia, I can probably avoid bussing him, and if it's possible to avoid bussing without giving myself away then that's what I would do. In any other game, he'd be dead.

Wrex: In your opinion, do you see any players that seem to be conforming to the above scenario? (lurking, OMGUSing and WIFOMing, then getting suddenly calm/quiet or abruptly starting to scum hunt "unsuspiciously")? I'll suggest one for you, if you're having a hard time.

Nerjin: You're scum with Wrex. Looking at how he's playing, what advice do you give him?

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 10:05:13 pm

And Vodot, How is this information you are gathering going to benefit the town?

It's information. It forces people to commit. It exposes lies. It exposes weakness. It informs the uninformed majority. It makes educated use of our only weapon: the lynch.

The only piece of information that I think is NOT helpful to the town is: "Game over, the town loses". I know that you're having a hard time relating, Wrex, but we members of the town are feeling pretty in the dark right now— except about your continued scummy behavior and questions.

Spoiler: boring aside about in-person vs. forum formats (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

Assuming this setup?  No. If I know there's a doctor, then possibly; but even then, what guarantees that the doctor believes me and saves me N2?  Halving the ranks of the scum is attractive, but I don't think it would be worth losing the cop for the rest of the game.

I'd actually seriously recommend claiming immediately on finding a guilty result. In this setup, it's impossible for anyone except mafia to come up guilty, so if you get a guilty result as Cop you know for certain that that player is scum.

Finding the final scum is considerably easier once the first one flips, so even though it's likely a cop will die immediately after claiming, on the whole I think it's a plus.

Interesting. Answering this question, I felt like this is one of the points where this setup diverges from larger in-person games.  In an in-person game (especially one with more than one cop) I do claim immediately, because I can rely on being convincing through non-logical means. In this setup, I obviously haven't read enough games (let alone played) to know whether or not a cop claiming that early gets supported, or if they are more likely to be lynched out of suspicion. Seems like a much easier scum move when you're protected behind anonymity like this.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Is there any reason why all your questions directed towards me are from the scum perspective?

Because I think you're scum, Jim, and I want our noobly town to think of you that way. I know this is BM, but my priority is still winning. And honestly?  I don't like your role and the idea of the "playing IC". I think it unfairly swamps the noob town with a whole extra dynamic they shouldn't have to deal with, namely a super-experienced player that will have absolutely no difficulty in shoving opinion around with his reputation alone.  How is that fair?  How can that be trusted? I think it's just a carrot to get IC's to participate.

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.

Shakerag, if you think I'm one iota less suspicious of you than I am of Jim, you're wrong. How does your mafia philosophy differ from Jim's? How would you pick a great player like Jim apart if you suspected he was scum?

Jim, who is playing the most like bad newbie scum right now?  Who is playing the most like good newbie scum right now?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:43:24 pm

@vodot, you thought the possibility that we may think you prefer Jim off the game because you are scum and he is townie?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:45:22 pm

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:43:24 pm

@vodot, you thought the possibility that we may think you prefer Jim off the game because you are scum and he is townie?

Yep. If he and I were even remotely evenly skilled, that's exactly what i'd do if I were scum. As it stands, don't be foolish: given the gap in our skill levels, regardless of how hard I tried to cloak my Jimbotting [can I use that as a verb?]  he would just eat me and move on. 

I think I feel so safe going after Jim because I know that he can spot my true alignment, right now, from ten miles away.  So if he's scum, we newbs had better start preparing for an epic battle against him or Shake. And if he's town, I have no real need to be concerned about him retaliating or eating me; he almost certainly knows my alignment already.

I'm not dismissing your concern. I think it's valid. I just know it is ultimately unmerited.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:45:22 pm

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:08:11 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 04, 2012, 11:22:13 am

Shakerag-it's day 4. There are two people besides you left. One is not scummy, but a person who was voting him was nightkilled. The second player seems scummy, and you were voting him in the last round. Who would you vote for? (essentially, if you were in Hapah's position in the endgame of BM XXXIV, what would you do?)
markressler-if you could be any role that you wanted, which role would you be?
kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

This is an interesting position to take my friend and one that will, inevitably, lead to being proven scum!

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

First of all your English seems fine enough right now. How is he being evil with you? Why aren’t you answering his question?

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

-wall of text-

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.
-Text-
 

Also just because we’re in the RVS doesn’t mean you should toss around votes like they’re candy. That’s not really a scum thing that’s just how I happen to understand the game.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:10:20 pm

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

Is that because you just so happen to be scum?

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:19:31 pm

Also, unvote. Since I've admitted to vote just as a counter-vote, there's no point to not unvote.

So mark what you are saying is that you got caught in a OMGUS and then you took several posts to remove it? Why did it take you so long? Why did you keep your OMGUS vote going so long despite admitting pretty early that it was just that? Were you perhaps hoping that somebody would find reasons to doubt Kamin and then you could just say “Yeah that’s what I thought too!” because that seems the most likely possibility right now.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:44:55 am

Also, Jim, I forgot to answer, yeah, I tend to freak out sometimes whether my alignment is because my lack of experience. Let some day pass and I will be more sure about what to do/what not to do.

So you’re saying “Let me find out what you people think are scumtells so that I can avoid detection in the future because right now I’m not sure despite having read up on mafia games in the past.” Panicking tells me you have something to hide. If you’re innocent than you should be able to convince us of this fact instead of going for pity points.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

-Lots of text-
 Nerjin: You're scum with Wrex. Looking at how he's playing, what advice do you give him?
-Lots of text-
 

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 01:22:00 pm

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:31:04 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 01:22:00 pm

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

I saw things that I thought were scummy. I'm not picking on you kiddo. We're all about as vulnerable as you I just haven't seen anyone with as many scum-tells. Feel free to prove me wrong. Instead of trying to guilt me out of this how about you explain all of those things.

To answer your "question" no I wouldn't do a thing. He's obviously made himself a target, why would I go out of my way to make myself a bigger target? If I were scum I'd just let things run their course.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 02:08:11 pm

Quote from: markressler (emphasis mine) on September 05, 2012, 01:22:00 pm

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it.

So if only his reasons were airtight, then it wouldn't be a waste of time for him to vote you?  Tell me: Why does your scumminess rest on HIS reasons and not YOUR alignment?

I think we're going to lynch you on D1, mark. I'm more than a little dissapointed that you're cool with it.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:08:11 pm

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

I think I'd be taking out Shakerag's shovel. If I was feeling nice, I might just hand it to him to give him some help digging out of his massive hole. If not...

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 02:14:16 pm

Oh and, the vote stays, Nerjin.  You're dogpiling on Mark like a bullied schoolboy looking for someone smaller to beat up on.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: markressler on September 05, 2012, 02:19:52 pm

I'm not cool with it at all, his reasons doesn't seem valid to me. He is voting me because my lack of experience at the game? That's a waste of time.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Shakerag on September 05, 2012, 03:05:48 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:08:11 pm

Also just because we’re in the RVS doesn’t mean you should toss around votes like they’re candy. That’s not really a scum thing that’s just how I happen to understand the game.

[In my opinion, we started to leave the RVS phase around the 50-post mark and are certainly past the RVS phase around the 100-post mark.  I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to see if they can figure out why.]

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

And it takes little effort to win as scum in a Beginner's Mafia. No need to mastermind anything. It's easy to win when no one knows what the hell they're doing.

[And everyone lurks like sons of bitches.  Everyone go look at the previous Beginner's game to see a shining example.]

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:42:04 am

@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.

[You're not the first, and you won't be the last.  Each board likely has its own flow that you have to feel out at first.  Especially if you're coming from face-to-face mafia to here.  Also, you're not the first non-native English speaker here either, so don't get too worried about that.]

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:24:21 am

I've already agreed that the counter-vote was stupid of me. I said that we were 'luckily' in the RVS because we have the chance to be mistaken, and still pull it off. I don't think I'd vote this happily if we are in D4 or something.

[Just to clarify things a bit.  The vote in the RVS phase is ... more like applying extra pressure to get your questioned answered than really being used as an indicator of who you're suspicious of.  Regardless, when you vote someone, you need reasons.  Voting someone along with a question to pressure them to answer it?  Fine.  Voting someone and stating why they're scum?  Great.  Just stating that you're putting a vote on someone?  Bzzt.]

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Shakerag, if you think I'm one iota less suspicious of you than I am of Jim, you're wrong. How does your mafia philosophy differ from Jim's? How would you pick a great player like Jim apart if you suspected he was scum?

Oh good.  I always seem to evade notice of many players for some reason.  This gives me warm fuzzies.  However, you need to clarify your "philosophy" question, because just asking about my philosophy and how it differs from Jim's could be a thesis-level response. 

How would I pick apart Jim if I suspected he was scum?  [joke] I wouldn't.  I'd pray for an inspect result.  And even then, no guarantees. [/joke]  Against someone with an overwhelmingly strong day game, I'd be more looking to prove everyone else isn't scum, so that the remaining player is scum by process of elimination. 

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.

That's nice, but I'd expect scum to say the same things. 

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

Wow, I've come back to quite the clusterfuck... Let's see if we can get some info out of this overload.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 02:14:16 pm

Oh and, the vote stays, Nerjin.  You're dogpiling on Mark like a bullied schoolboy looking for someone smaller to beat up on.

Vodot: How is Nerjin dogpiling? You pretty much said the same thing about me when I voted Mark, on my own volition, sometime after Shakerag did. The funny thing about this situation is that if he was "dogpiling" on somebody, it could only be true if he'd voted Wrex. Wrex had two votes previously, and Mark only had one (my own) when Nerjin voted... So in reality, it would seem Nerjin was keeping things even. He certainly hasn't voted as many times as you yourself have.

Now Vodot, I can see what you're doing. You're trying to lay down pressure and get people to break. I mean, you have voted for two different people; Jim right out of the gate, and now Nerjin for doing something you claim he didn't really do. But are you actually trying to help the Town by info mining, or actively deflecting attention by pointing the finger at everybody whose name doesn't start with a 'V'? I'm starting to really think you have something out for pretty much EVERYBODY...

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 02:08:11 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:08:11 pm

I’d tell him to quit lurking so much. It’s a pretty big scum-tell to me. At the very least it makes me suspicious of him so I’d tell him to get more involved. Sure he posts occasionally but it’s pretty rare and small stuff from what I’ve seen. Now what would you do Mr. Vodot?

I think I'd be taking out Shakerag's shovel. If I was feeling nice, I might just hand it to him to give him some help digging out of his massive hole. If not...

Unvote

Except maybe Wrex. Now why would you sympathize with him? Is there some link between the two of you we're not aware of?

All of the vitriol and flying accusations--including the sheer number of your posts--just makes me wonder if you're not trying to compensate for being scum. What do you have to hide, Vodot? Maybe we won't be lynching Mark D1, after all... Which was a quick assumption to make, I might add. I actually worry we're going to lynch some sorry Townie without enough info (NOT that you're absolved, Mark). But losing a Townie on D1 isn't going to do my chances of winning any good at all. Why do you seem less concerned about that, Vodot?

And now for the Lurktrain...

Sox and Shakerag, are you enjoying the show yet? Two lurkers for the price of one, how convenient... So let me ask, if you were town, what would you think about lurkers? What would you do if there just so happened to be two lurkers, when there are also two Mafia still out and about? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here, but I haven't seen anything very positive out of you two.

PPE: Just saw your post, Shakerag.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Wrex on September 05, 2012, 03:35:52 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 03:05:44 am

Alright Wrex, coming off the back of Lurk-O-BM, when did you decide it was a good idea to lurk. Why are you not questioning? Also, why did you vote Vodot with only the statement " He seems pretty accusatory."? You have constantly made short posts, and have made no effort to question. So please tell me the reason.

Unvote
Have you not been watching? I have made plenty of questions. Not as much as the hyperactive lord of the text wall that is vodot :p Wsoxfan, consider yourself un FOS'd, I misread one of your earlier posts in the haze of "Been awake for far far too long". Now, I am a quiet fella. I enjoy watching people do this back and forth talky talky fest. It's fun. It's informative. But please notice that I have posted more often than shakerag has, although not to the same quantity. Is it because I don't make massive text walls disecting everyone's posts? Or is it because you saw a bandwagon forming and jumped on it, King?

Now, you may be asking why did I vote Vodot? Kamin stated the reason far more eloquently than I ever could. Applying pressure is a good thing, generally. But this is far more agressive than I have ever seen anyone play Mafia. It may be a personal style, or it may be a tell. I have no idea. Never played with him before. He is, however, performing better (I think) Than King, who is lurking harder than me.

Now, Nerjin....If Nerjin is scum, it would be easy, by a show of sympathy to someone who is under suspsiscion to deepen that suspiscion, hopefully getting an easy lynch off someone who is (hopefully) a power role. If that's what's going on, that's really clever of you. I'm watching you.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:13:42 pm

RE:Me being an aggressive ass
I apologize for overposting.  I'm pretty bitter about having to RR. Second, If you're reading the IC posts (or literally any other game of mafia), you'll know that voting a bunch early on, badgering, etc. serves a purpose and it's a good one.  Yes, I've been a hyperactive ass. Yes, I have a ton of exposure. I play a high-octane game, and I won't balk at apologizing for overreaching or making occasional mistakes.  A strong, mistake-making town is better than a skulking, apathetic town.

Quote from: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

Except maybe Wrex. Now why would you sympathize with him?

I'm not sympathizing with Wrex. I'm pitying Wrex for starting so badly. While drawing attention to his bad start.  I've been a little wary of outright voting him (he's currently voting me), given my already high level of exposure.

Quote from: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

But losing a Townie on D1 isn't going to do my chances of winning any good at all. Why do you seem less concerned about that, Vodot?

Because I'm not concerned about it. I was, at first: Please reread Tiruin or Jim's responses, in which they allay my fears about a D1 mislynch.

Quote from: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

Vodot: How is Nerjin dogpiling?

Ok, Ok, I read the thread (which some hyperactive ass has filled up with HUGE posts) again, and it turns out that Nerjin WAS the first to FoS mark. He was technically at the bottom of the dogpile, then, with that early FoS.  What he DID do, though, was intensify his accusations and actually vote mark in a period when it seemed en vogue to do so, and that's what caused me to add that post about him dogpiling. I'm not saying that doing so makes him scum, I'm just drawing attention to the fact that he did it.

Quote from: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

You pretty much said the same thing about me when I voted Mark, on my own volition, sometime after Shakerag did.

You voted mark two hours after Shake did, Kamin. Why do you feel such a need to distance yourself from that bandwagon?

Aaaand no, I'm not going to apologize for predicting that we'll lynch mark. It's nothing personal, I just think we will. And I still don't think he cares about it enough.

Looking for answers to my questions, Wrex and Jim.

Quote from: Wrex on September 05, 2012, 03:35:52 pm

Not as much as the hyperactive lord of the text wall that is vodot :p

I like that! :)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:21:36 pm

...but I will try to tone it down.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:29:19 pm

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

This is the question I'm talking about:

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Wrex: In your opinion, do you see any players that seem to be conforming to the above scenario? (lurking, OMGUSing and WIFOMing, then getting suddenly calm/quiet or abruptly starting to scum hunt "unsuspiciously")? I'll suggest one for you, if you're having a hard time.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Wrex on September 05, 2012, 05:37:07 pm

@Vodot: Kingfisher looks far more suspiscious to me now than he did before. Overposting is an unorthodox straegy, to be sure, and it was silly of me to immediatly jump on you for that. However, King, on the other hand, lurks hard, and then picks a safe target, I.E Me. That is very suspiscious, simply because oh how unsuspiscious it looks. He is probably my top scumpick.

So:
@ Vodot: Why are you piting me? I can't learn if I don't make mistakes.
@Mark: You are scum, and have claimed cop to defend yourself. The (presumeably) real cop also claims. What do you do?
@King: You are doctor, but you are leading in votes, and claim as a last ditch defence. Someone else claims Doctor. How do you proceed?


Also, thank you for informing me. If you want to know what it was about, I was asking him to repeat his question so that I could answer it. I wasn't sure if "Please repeat your question" constituted as Game relevant.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 06:53:59 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 05, 2012, 03:35:52 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 03:05:44 am

Alright Wrex, coming off the back of Lurk-O-BM, when did you decide it was a good idea to lurk. Why are you not questioning? Also, why did you vote Vodot with only the statement " He seems pretty accusatory."? You have constantly made short posts, and have made no effort to question. So please tell me the reason.

Unvote
Have you not been watching? I have made plenty of questions. Not as much as the hyperactive lord of the text wall that is vodot :p Wsoxfan, consider yourself un FOS'd, I misread one of your earlier posts in the haze of "Been awake for far far too long". Now, I am a quiet fella. I enjoy watching people do this back and forth talky talky fest. It's fun. It's informative. But please notice that I have posted more often than shakerag has, although not to the same quantity. Is it because I don't make massive text walls disecting everyone's posts? Or is it because you saw a bandwagon forming and jumped on it, King?

Now, you may be asking why did I vote Vodot? Kamin stated the reason far more eloquently than I ever could. Applying pressure is a good thing, generally. But this is far more agressive than I have ever seen anyone play Mafia. It may be a personal style, or it may be a tell. I have no idea. Never played with him before. He is, however, performing better (I think) Than King, who is lurking harder than me.

I'm not lurking, I'm just legitimately not here. The first 5 page burst was not me "Lurking", it was me sleeping. And I did not see a bandwagon forming, markressler has the real bandwagon forming. Now. Moving on. While you are still suspicious, I don't know who could really be scum here. And watch out for your sleep Wrex. I made an angry post because I had just slept and was tired, and it cost me my life.
Unvote

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 06:59:07 pm

Wrex: Fight my damn hardest to survive. There's nothing special you can do in that situation.

And something I forgot, YOU saw a bandwagon forming and jumped on it, not me.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 05, 2012, 07:50:41 pm

PFP-I'll get access to a computer in a couple hours. In the meantime, answers to questions-
I didn't think I'd be unable to post for this long. I was planning on waiting for a computer to post. I don't consider 24 hours lurking. Anyways, someone who lurks for long periods of time is almost certainly scum.
To kingfisher:at this point my top three choices are Wrex(see my earlier posts on why), and vodot because he wants to get rid of the most experienced player because he's the most experienced player. I don't see why I need to think of three scum, as there can only be two. I'll post questions in hopefully two hours or so.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:44:55 am

Also, Jim, I forgot to answer, yeah, I tend to freak out sometimes whether my alignment is because my lack of experience. Let some day pass and I will be more sure about what to do/what not to do.

I have no doubt that this is true, but it strikes me as more than a little self-preservationist.

"Nah, don't lynch me today, I'll be good and town looking in a few days."

Asking people to give you slack probably won't work.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 01:22:00 pm

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

This is not how you defend yourself.

You have to do more than just say the people voting you are wrong. It won't change people's minds if that's all you say. You have to explain how they are wrong. You have to address the reasons that people are voting you and ably demonstrate that those reasons are false or incorrect. Otherwise, you just let what people say about you stand with no rebuttal. They are, in effect, controlling the opinion about you. This is not a good situation to be in, as you can probably imagine.

Also, if Nerjin is scum, why aren't you voting him? Afraid of OMGUSing?

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 12:25:34 am

Is there any reason why all your questions directed towards me are from the scum perspective?

Because I think you're scum, Jim, and I want our noobly town to think of you that way. I know this is BM, but my priority is still winning. And honestly?  I don't like your role and the idea of the "playing IC". I think it unfairly swamps the noob town with a whole extra dynamic they shouldn't have to deal with, namely a super-experienced player that will have absolutely no difficulty in shoving opinion around with his reputation alone.  How is that fair?  How can that be trusted? I think it's just a carrot to get IC's to participate.

If you think I'm scum, then vote for me.

Come on come on come on come on. I want you to do it, I want you to do it. Come on come on come on come on, I want you to do it. Vote me! Vote me! Come on, vote me! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fis8XMe5zIE&t=40s)

Or maybe you should try a different approach and not suspect people because of their experience. Because here's the hard facts: even if it weren't completely fallacious to suspect somebody simply for their experience (it has no bearing on alignment given at the beginning of the game), the moment you step out of the comfort zone of the Beginner's Mafias, everyone is experienced. There's no significant skill gap between me or Shakerag or any of the other players on this board, so you are teaching yourself the absolute shittiest of lessens by suspecting experienced players before they even do anything.

And you're forgetting the purpose of the Beginner's Mafias. It's not to play a good game. It's to learn how to play. Good games make this easier. Your priority should be to learn how to play, not worry about winning or not.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.

This answer doesn't seem honest.

If your priority is winning, then there's no good reason why you should be taking notes on how to play scum unless you are scum.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Jim, who is playing the most like bad newbie scum right now?  Who is playing the most like good newbie scum right now?

I generally refuse to rate player's performance while the game is in progress, because I don't want to be discouraging.

Similarly, I don't want to give a player any reason to have an ego.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

It's up to you if you think your level of participation will be sufficient enough.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

I think I feel so safe going after Jim because I know that he can spot my true alignment, right now, from ten miles away.  So if he's scum, we newbs had better start preparing for an epic battle against him or Shake. And if he's town, I have no real need to be concerned about him retaliating or eating me; he almost certainly knows my alignment already.

You have way too much confidence in this being the case.

Yuh huh, you're so town that I, in my (apparently) infinite skill, can just tell this obvious and immutable fact.

Claim that I can recognize that you're town all you want. You saying this makes me seriously think otherwise.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Quit talking around the issue of suspecting me and lynching me and make it happen.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:13:42 pm

Looking for answers to my questions, Wrex and Jim.

Why don't you fucking wait.

For fuck's sake, I do not have all day to play mafia.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 05, 2012, 10:21:28 pm

Vodot:I find a couple of things odd with what Vodot is doing right now-first he places what is essentially a RVS vote on Nerjin on post 118. Why? This game has been out of the RVS stage for a while now. Also, as Jim stated above, if you think he(and Shake) are scum, why aren't you voting them, or at least FoSing them? You're making a lot of talk, but you're not backing it up. You appear to want both of the IC's gone because they are experienced, not because of anything scummy that they did. That seems dangerous.

Wrex:If I may ask, what part of my statement did you misread? Also, why did you OMGUS Kingfisher? Yes, he had flimsy reason for voting for you, but you had still flimsier reasons voting for him. The finger of suspicion grows, Wrex.

Also...
General statement. If I haven't posted for more than 30 hours, then I'm lurking. Otherwise I am at school. I am sincerly sorry if some people are unhappy I can't play this game 24/7.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2012, 02:46:57 am

Update

blackmagechill has denied replacing vodot!

vodot will still act as himself until I can get someone in who needs to replace him! Or until he decides to not request for a replacement!

---

"Hey, did I tell you yet that master is a mighty wizard?

"Yes he is! Ooooh yes."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (1) - vodot
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (2) - markressler, Wrex
• markressler (0) -
• vodot (0) -
• Wrex (2) - Shakerag, kingfisher1112
• Jim Groovester (0) -
• Shakerag (0) -

Not voting: Nerjin, wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, Kamin

((Day 1 will end at September 7, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance!))

---

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

As long as you do post high-quality ones, and make sure they're relevant, you're fine. Nobody until now seems to want to undergo the first trials anyway.

Tally ho, knights! :P

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Or maybe you should try a different approach and not suspect people because of their experience. ...you are teaching yourself the absolute shittiest of lessens by suspecting experienced players before they even do anything.

I think if anyone really reads, they will see that what i'm trying to do is to encourage the town to treat you like a player; not to actually lynch you, and not to revere you like some infallible angelic being.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Additionally, I ask you scum questions because I'd rather ask an excellent player I know is required to give me good answers and information about how he would play the scum side, since I am otherwise going to acquire exactly zero first-hand information about playing the scum side this game, until i read the scum chat and discuss the game with everyone afterward.

This answer doesn't seem honest.

If your priority is winning, then there's no good reason why you should be taking notes on how to play scum unless you are scum.

I don't think there is any game in the history of ever in which it is disadvantageous to know how your opponent is going to play. Prove me wrong, IC.
 

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

It's up to you if you think your level of participation will be sufficient enough.

Provided that's the consensus, awesome.  Cancel Replacement Request.  I'm having an absolute blast. :)

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Yuh huh, you're so town that I, in my (apparently) infinite skill, can just tell this obvious and immutable fact.

Claim that I can recognize that you're town all you want. You saying this makes me seriously think otherwise.

[OK, Can I pause the hardassery to just say... really? I really did think you would be able to tell pretty much immediately, and that you ICs are basically playing with the kid gloves on.  If you REALLY can't, then I really might be pushing too hard to increase the 'default' level of healthy caution the town should have for the ICs.]

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Quit talking around the issue of suspecting me and lynching me and make it happen.

Back off.  I said "there's no reason to fear lynching him", not "there's no reason not to lynch him", and there is a BIG difference between those two thoughts.  That's been my line throughout, and I'm not ashamed of it.  I've kidded around with you and pressed you as a personal challenge, and because I thought you'd be a fun target, but I WILL vote and lynch you when I am convinced you're scum, and I'm certainly NOT, yet. 

@sox, see above.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

Why don't you fucking wait.

For fuck's sake, I do not have all day to play mafia.

Ok, ok.  fair enough.  that was utterly hypocritical, especially given my own RR for the same reasons. I'm just getting excited.

But come on Jim, this is has got to be better than lurking, right?

Oh, and:

DO Answer the question...  pretty please.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2012, 02:56:27 am

No replacements are currently needed!

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 05, 2012, 08:56:23 pm

It's up to you if you think your level of participation will be sufficient enough.

Provided that's the consensus, awesome.  Cancel Replacement Request.  I'm having an absolute blast. :)

"So...still parched, sir knight?"

"It's noon, I guess I can still go on without refreshments. Thank ye muchly, squire."

"I'm a popped corn vendor..."

"Precisely."

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:39:15 am

Guys, I can't continue wiht this. It has been a blast, but frankly, I am drained by some events beyond my control. You may want to warm up that replacement button.

"Wait, squire! I am in need of refreshments!"

"I told you I'm not a-...Fine, sire. Let me get the lemons, and I'll make them extra juicy. Sire."

Wrex has requested a Replacement!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 06, 2012, 03:15:04 am

Alright, getting another retread.
Wrex: In post#62 you OMGUS. Your reasoning? He was acting like a good townie. Asking questions, and pressuring people. Wrex.
In post #75 you again accuse Vodot of being too aggressive. A post in the last BM said something along the lines of "Scumhunting is not a scum tell, no matter the aggressiveness."
In post #130 you OMGUS. a noting really needs to be said about this.
However, I have noticed a few traces of possible scumteaming from Vodot to Wrex and vice Versa. Like how Vodot " Pities" Wrex. And the compliment to Vodot. Hmmmm. More coming soon.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 06, 2012, 03:37:22 am

Quote from: Wrex on September 05, 2012, 05:37:07 pm

@Vodot: Kingfisher looks far more suspiscious to me now than he did before. Overposting is an unorthodox straegy, to be sure, and it was silly of me to immediatly jump on you for that. However, King, on the other hand, lurks hard, and then picks a safe target, I.E Me. That is very suspiscious, simply because oh how unsuspiscious it looks. He is probably my top scumpick.

So:
@ Vodot: Why are you piting me? I can't learn if I don't make mistakes.
@Mark: You are scum, and have claimed cop to defend yourself. The (presumeably) real cop also claims. What do you do?
@King: You are doctor, but you are leading in votes, and claim as a last ditch defence. Someone else claims Doctor. How do you proceed?

Alright. This post as well. I am a safe target because no one seems to give a shit about me. I have evidence. You do not. You are not a safe target. So, I am suspicious because I am not suspicious. Truly, you are the real life Batman.

@Kamin: You are a jester. What do you do?
@Vodot: Do you have any scum team suspects?
@Shakerag: You are cop. You investigate someone and he turns up town, but he seems scummy.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:39:15 am

Guys, I can't continue wiht this. It has been a blast, but frankly, I am drained by some events beyond my control. You may want to warm up that replacement button.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 06, 2012, 03:41:44 am

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:39:15 am

Guys, I can't continue wiht this. It has been a blast, but frankly, I am drained by some events beyond my control. You may want to warm up that replacement button.

Thanks for playing Wrex. Hope you can take part in the next BM.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane
Post by: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:49:18 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 06, 2012, 03:41:44 am

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:39:15 am

Guys, I can't continue wiht this. It has been a blast, but frankly, I am drained by some events beyond my control. You may want to warm up that replacement button.

Thanks for playing Wrex. Hope you can take part in the next BM.

I will, but as I'm sure you've noticed, I've not been up to form. A combination of sleep deprevation, and failing to prevent a suicide, mostly.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Shakerag on September 06, 2012, 09:29:13 am

Quote from: Kamin on September 05, 2012, 03:09:23 pm

Sox and Shakerag, are you enjoying the show yet? Two lurkers for the price of one, how convenient... So let me ask, if you were town, what would you think about lurkers? What would you do if there just so happened to be two lurkers, when there are also two Mafia still out and about? Perhaps I'm grasping at straws here, but I haven't seen anything very positive out of you two.

PPE: Just saw your post, Shakerag.

Please note that there are some of us that are post-school, and therefore may not be able to post as often as you whippersnappers.  The bare-minimum for activity is one solid post a day, and I make sure that I try to get at least that in.

Lurkers: If possible, I fire off an inspect or some information-gathering night ability (which includes a vig-kill) at one.  I'm of the opinion that lurking isn't a terribly strong scumtell, because I've seen plenty of town get lynched for doing it.  If there are two lurkers and two scum left, it's possible they're both scum, but there's no good rule of thumb about it to me.  Best thing you can do is go to policy lynch one and see if that spurrs some activity.

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:29:19 pm

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

[?]

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

[OK, Can I pause the hardassery to just say... really? I really did think you would be able to tell pretty much immediately, and that you ICs are basically playing with the kid gloves on.  If you REALLY can't, then I really might be pushing too hard to increase the 'default' level of healthy caution the town should have for the ICs.]

[As has been stated by many ICs before me, we're looking at a bunch of newbies flailing around dropping tells left and right.  We've got a fairly high noise-to-signal ratio when sifting through all the newbtells looking for genuine scumtells here.]


kingfisher1112, why are you still asking RVS questions?

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:49:18 am

I will, but as I'm sure you've noticed, I've not been up to form. A combination of sleep deprevation, and failing to prevent a suicide, mostly.

[Come back when you're ready.  We'll be here.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2012, 09:39:53 am

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:29:19 pm

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

Just a note:

Quote from: First page post

PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.

    Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related queries.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 10:26:51 am

Quote from: Nerjin on September 05, 2012, 01:08:11 pm

So mark what you are saying is that you got caught in a OMGUS and then you took several posts to remove it?

MOD I am indeed voting. For Markressler currently.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

@King: I honestly don't know what a "jester" is. Clarify?
@Wrex My God, that's really awful. I'm sorry to hear that, and offer my support and condolences. Feel free to PM me if you're ever feeling off--I've enjoyed playing with you, and hope to see you on the forums soon.

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I haven't gotten a good read on you Sox, so if you had anything constructive to say, now might be the time to say it.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 02:55:50 pm

@Kamin: jester is a nonstandard role that wins the game if he gets lynched.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

@Wrex

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:49:18 am

I will, but as I'm sure you've noticed, I've not been up to form. A combination of sleep deprevation, and failing to prevent a suicide, mostly.

...

... 

I'm trying not to feel so guilty for the fact that I might be voting for you later today, wrex.  But seriously, that is just completely terrible.  I am so sorry.  Good luck and thanks for playing.

Quote from: Shakerag on September 06, 2012, 09:29:13 am

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:29:19 pm

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

[?]

Wrex sent me a PM yesterday asking me to remind him of a question he had been neglecting to answer.

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

...it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs...
...It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them....

Kamin, please get off your ass, read my damn WoT's, and quote me directly.  "seems" and "almosts" and "feelings" aren't reasons and evidence, and it is just beyond lazy that you can't find a shred of evidence to support your vote in at least ONE of my fricking huge posts.  Do a fricking search.

In fact, no. It's time for you to DELIVER, Kamin. Show us you aren't just scum trying to get rid of me since I'm playing well and I'm relatively exposed. I want to SEE your reasons.

@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.

All, please pay attention to who is going after me for this.  I'm playing an aggressive game with the IC's, but I'm playing an equally aggressive game with everyone else, too.  This "lynch the IC's!!" strawman they're putting up is pretty serious and it is a great point of attack.  They are going to go after me for it to try and get me out of the game without having to spend an NK on me.

TL;DR: I prefer direct solutions.  I'd just NK Jim if I were scum and afraid of him, and don't WIFOM me here.  That is what I would do, and it's how I answered your first question on day one, Kamin.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 03:09:08 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

-snip-
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.
-snip-

Before I forget to reply to this they are not allowed to give faulty information when it comes to advice. They can lie just like everyone else. Although now that I think about it they would be a bit more powerful scum players if they decided to speak in little half-truths. But so far they seem legitimate so I think they may not be scum. But just for fun EVERYONE!!! [NOTE: I put it in purple to indicate that I was joking with that FoS.] Now to make up with this post with another post of actual work. Be back with that in a bit.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 03:27:06 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

...it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs...
...It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them....

Kamin, please get off your ass, read my damn WoT's, and quote me directly.  "seems" and "almosts" and "feelings" aren't reasons and evidence, and it is just beyond lazy that you can't find a shred of evidence to support your vote in at least ONE of my fricking huge posts.  Do a fricking search.

I have. I read everything, and from everything I've read, you're scum. Absolutely. I see you're getting upset now, too--that's exactly what I'd expect from scum. You have a lot more to lose than I do, being on a team of only two... Isn't that so? And as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as "evidence" in this game. It's all based on what you are able to deduct from what you read, which is based off of... Right! Feelings! This vote definitely stays. Even if I wasn't going to vote for you, now it's almost a PL on your attitude. You've had one from the very beginning, and you even pissed off an IC with it. Vodot (Let's see if I get NKed now  :P )

Although I don't think it's really acceptable to post my Role PM up for you to see, I'll do my best to satisfy anybody who asks. I've been quite forthright in my answers thus far, and without being a WoT'er... Which I have come to see as true compensation for being scum (and which I've said explicitly before). It's sad, but the more you post in response to simple questions, the more desperate and guilty you look. In my book, anyway.

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 02:55:50 pm

@Kamin: jester is a nonstandard role that wins the game if he gets lynched.

@ KingI don't think we have jesters in this game, and I don't see what you gain by knowing my answer, but considering it doesn't matter anyway, I'd probably just claim Cop first day. That'd get me lynched or NKed for sure. Although if the Jester must be lynched instead of NKed... Maybe claim Doctor? This ties in with a lot of the questions I've already answered, but going back and sifting through a hundred posts gets tedious, so I'm happy to humor you.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 04:37:28 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 06:29:17 pm

[non-Dariush] IC's, I'd like some insight into the merits and pitfalls of a D1 lynch for the town in this setup.  Seven of us have a one-in four chance of picking a scum; should we act on D1 or not? 

• Best case, we nail scum and the game gets weird, assisted 6 v 1 on D2.
• Worst case, we nail a townie power role and drop to a dangerous, unassisted 5 v 2 on D2.
• Average situation, though, is we go into D2 with an assisted 5 v 2, hopefully with a cop having picked or cleared a critical player on N1 and surviving.

Is that better than just going 6 v 2 on D2?  I'm definitely EC in this regard and would love to hear your analysis.

While going through to see something I noticed this little gem. Now who benefits if we don't lynch? Only the mafia. Who would try suggesting something that only benefits the scum? I don't think a town player would. ESPECIALLY when you go on to say:

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

-snip-

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 10:05:13 pm

And Vodot, How is this information you are gathering going to benefit the town?

It's information. It forces people to commit. It exposes lies. It exposes weakness. It informs the uninformed majority. It makes educated use of our only weapon: the lynch.

The only piece of information that I think is NOT helpful to the town is: "Game over, the town loses". I know that you're having a hard time relating, Wrex, but we members of the town are feeling pretty in the dark right now— except about your continued scummy behavior and questions.
 

Quite odd it would appear. But this alone I can’t fault you on. After all opinions change. Apparently they change as they suit your needs though. When you’re not under pressure you’re fine with no-lynch. When you come under fire though you instantly switch to saying “I’m just trying to get a lynch to help the town.” Care to explain this change in heart?

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:43:24 pm

@vodot, you thought the possibility that we may think you prefer Jim off the game because you are scum and he is townie?

Yep. If he and I were even remotely evenly skilled, that's exactly what i'd do if I were scum. As it stands, don't be foolish: given the gap in our skill levels, regardless of how hard I tried to cloak my Jimbotting [can I use that as a verb?]  he would just eat me and move on. 

I think I feel so safe going after Jim because I know that he can spot my true alignment, right now, from ten miles away.  So if he's scum, we newbs had better start preparing for an epic battle against him or Shake. And if he's town, I have no real need to be concerned about him retaliating or eating me; he almost certainly knows my alignment already.

I'm not dismissing your concern. I think it's valid. I just know it is ultimately unmerited.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:45:22 pm

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.

You seem awfully intent on lynching Jim. That’s understandable actually. Jim is a very intimidating guy. He’s a talented player so he’d obviously be the one a scum like yourself would want to get rid of. I mean who wouldn’t want to get that Bronze Colossus of a player out of the way if they were a scum? Let me guess your plan. You kill Jim, get his ability to examine the game [and share the information] out of the way, and then day two you say “Well since Jim wasn’t scum then it must be Shakerag! What’re the odds of BOTH IC’s not being scum? Pretty low if you ask me.”

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

-Snip-
@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.

All, please pay attention to who is going after me for this.  I'm playing an aggressive game with the IC's, but I'm playing an equally aggressive game with everyone else, too.  This "lynch the IC's!!" strawman they're putting up is pretty serious and it is a great point of attack.  They are going to go after me for it to try and get me out of the game without having to spend an NK on me.

TL;DR: I prefer direct solutions.  I'd just NK Jim if I were scum and afraid of him, and don't WIFOM me here.  That is what I would do, and it's how I answered your first question on day one, Kamin.

You’re right you are too smart for that. Which is why I find it odd that you did it anyway. Maybe I misread the above, if so feel free to prove me wrong. You DO however seem to be trying to push suspicion onto them pretty hard. You claim it’s to make sure we don’t idolize the omni-potent Jim who is capable of seeing alignment very easily, according to you. Maybe, and feel free to prove me wrong, you are trying to shift suspicion onto them right now. Then when they start claiming that you’re scum you bust out “See? I suspected them from D1 and now they’re finally trying to take me out.” I get the slight feeling that what you are REALLY trying to do is play on our fears of the experienced players. Fear that you, as a potential scum, would feel the most.

I think you're scum Vodot. Be sure that I'll be watching your posts a little more closely.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Shakerag on September 06, 2012, 04:45:32 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 06, 2012, 09:29:13 am

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 05:29:19 pm

Wrex, no PM's about the game, please.

[?]

Wrex sent me a PM yesterday asking me to remind him of a question he had been neglecting to answer.

[Please copy that PM to the mod if you haven't already.]

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.

[Again, ICs are honor-bound to not mislead you in an instructional role.  If one of us is giving advice/commentary about how you're playing the game, take it in good faith.  Yes, we can mislead you, but only in the context of in-game information (i.e. fakeclaiming a doctor role).  BMXXXIII is a good example, as both ICs were scum, but gave the town earnest advice on how to hunt scum.

And, frankly, speaking as someone who has been scum as a playing IC, we don't need to give you misinformation in the way you were thinking to win.]

Having said that, vodot, while being aggressive isn't a scumtell per se, you do seem to be reacting in a rather strong manner when (at the point of your last post) you didn't seem to have one vote on you. 

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 03:27:06 pm

Although I don't think it's really acceptable to post my Role PM up for you to see, I'll do my best to satisfy anybody who asks.

[PROTIP: It's not.]


[Tiruin: Loving the flavor so far.  Good job.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 06, 2012, 05:54:00 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 06, 2012, 03:49:18 am

I will, but as I'm sure you've noticed, I've not been up to form. A combination of sleep deprevation, and failing to prevent a suicide, mostly.

I'm sorry to hear that.

If you want to play another BM, feel free to sign up again when you're ready.

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

[OK, Can I pause the hardassery to just say... really? I really did think you would be able to tell pretty much immediately, and that you ICs are basically playing with the kid gloves on.  If you REALLY can't, then I really might be pushing too hard to increase the 'default' level of healthy caution the town should have for the ICs.]

This is hilarious. You said you wanted to get everyone to treat me like a player and not an angelic being, when you've made the same mistake and attribute to me divine skill.

If you thought I could instantly tell everyone's alignment I would already be voting scum.

How good did you really think the players on this board were when you signed up?

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

Back off.  I said "there's no reason to fear lynching him", not "there's no reason not to lynch him", and there is a BIG difference between those two thoughts.  That's been my line throughout, and I'm not ashamed of it.  I've kidded around with you and pressed you as a personal challenge, and because I thought you'd be a fun target, but I WILL vote and lynch you when I am convinced you're scum, and I'm certainly NOT, yet. 

Back off? I'll do no such thing.

The ICs are not here to throw yourself against and see how you measure up. This is a place to learn how to play the game, not a dojo for cocky bastards to challenge the grandmasters like in some shitty anime or martial arts movie.

And you're sending me mixed signals here. You said you thought I was scum (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3585021#msg3585021). Now you're not convinced I'm scum. Quite the change of position.

Why do you keep adding reasons between you and the vote on me you really, really want to cast? Scared, cowardly scum much?

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 02:53:33 am

DO Answer the question...  pretty please.

No.

Okay, fine. Everyone has room for improvement.

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.

All, please pay attention to who is going after me for this.  I'm playing an aggressive game with the IC's, but I'm playing an equally aggressive game with everyone else, too.  This "lynch the IC's!!" strawman they're putting up is pretty serious and it is a great point of attack.  They are going to go after me for it to try and get me out of the game without having to spend an NK on me.

ICs are obligated by their position to provide genuine advice. If an IC abused their position like you thought they would, I would be livid. How many times have we said this? It's ridiculous that you still held to the same position even after our assurances we wouldn't abuse our positions.

And it's not really much of a strawman at all because you've repeatedly said you've suspected the ICs.

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

TL;DR: I prefer direct solutions.  I'd just NK Jim if I were scum and afraid of him, and don't WIFOM me here.  That is what I would do, and it's how I answered your first question on day one, Kamin.

But this is WIFOM. You can't magically make it not WIFOM just because you say so.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 04:37:28 pm

FOS on vodot

So what exactly is your case on vodot? You're talking about how he's scum in ways that aren't necessarily relevant to the posts you're quoting.

And some of your points are really stretching it.

It's kind of a bandwagon right now to suspect vodot for suspecting the ICs, and I think you're jumping on it.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: vodot on September 06, 2012, 06:13:39 pm

@Shake,
I don't know how to respond to you; I know I'm coming on really strong, but I don't want accusations against me to stop me from scumhunting aggressively.  Where is the balance here, and how do I escape this accusation -> strong response -> stronger accusation -> stronger response cycle?

@Nerjin,
Between those two posts of mine is Tiruin telling us all to lynch on D1. I was on the fence about the D1 lynch, having typically avoided it in in-person play, but I trust the experience of the IC's in this format and I simply made up my mind after reading his and Jim's posts. 

Now, THIS is interesting to me:

Quote from: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 04:37:28 pm

I think you're scum Vodot. Be sure that I'll be watching your posts a little more closely.

I'll take a page out of Jim's book here, and say: if you think I'm scum, Nerjin, then why aren't you VOTING me?

Jim called me out for it, and I'm not voting him because I have no reason to actually think Jim is scum. 

But you? It's a day before Lynch, the votes are coming in, you just came out and TOLD me I'm scum to my face, and then:

you
didn't
vote.

Why not, Nerjin? At least Kamin is consistent; and I think he really believes what he is saying about me.  I think YOU, however, are just a tagalong, bandwagoning scum, and you don't care who we lynch tonight, as long as it isn't you.

[Wow, I hope you're scum and I can look back on this as the first good example of me using deduction.]

(I'm already voting Nerjin, but you should imagine me putting his name here in big red letters as the dramatic conclusion to my deduction).

PPE (I):
Jim ninja'd me and took a page out of his own book regarding Nerjin's bandwagon.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: vodot on September 06, 2012, 06:25:54 pm

@Jim
While I'm a little embarrassed that I made the same mistake that I was warning others not to make, I think that just reflects the reality of my own unrealistic expectations regarding your skill level, coming in.  I'm paying for that, obviously, a lot right now, but that genuinely was my expectation and I think I've played consistently according to that erroneous expectation.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 06, 2012, 06:37:49 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 06:13:39 pm

@Shake,
I don't know how to respond to you; I know I'm coming on really strong, but I don't want accusations against me to stop me from scumhunting aggressively.  Where is the balance here, and how do I escape this accusation -> strong response -> stronger accusation -> stronger response cycle?

It's not about reacting stronger than the guy before you, it's about making convincing arguments. This doesn't usually require that you come off as more condemning than the guy you're responding to, only that your arguments are better.

They have to be well presented as well, so that people don't just skip over them.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 06, 2012, 06:52:23 pm

@Kamin: Thank you for answering the question. And a strange one at that.
@Vodot: Andddddd here comes the emotion. Vodot I was pretty sure about your towniness and you reminded me of someone from the last BM. Now, not so sure. So answer me this: Why are you being angry?
@Shakerag: Because I'm not happy with the amount of info at present.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: vodot on September 06, 2012, 07:22:43 pm

King,
I'm wrestling (badly) with trying to reconcile a lot of emotions regarding the last day of posts: indignation and suspicion that people are accusing me to get me killed and to shut me up, I'm embarrassed by Jim pointing out how much of a mess my whole "let's suspect the IC's" bit played out.

I think part of the problem is simply that I have (until tomorrow) too much free time at my job to read this thread, so I'm posting way too much and spending way more time than I should be on each posts, tweaking, which tends to make them sound angrier and pointier with each tweak I make. 

I'm not angry, I just want to win, and I don't want to die,  plain and simple.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 07:39:45 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 06:13:39 pm

-snip
@Nerjin,
Between those two posts of mine is Tiruin telling us all to lynch on D1. I was on the fence about the D1 lynch, having typically avoided it in in-person play, but I trust the experience of the IC's in this format and I simply made up my mind after reading his and Jim's posts. 

Oh alrighty then. I suppose that does make sense.

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 06:13:39 pm

Now, THIS is interesting to me:

Quote from: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 04:37:28 pm

I think you're scum Vodot. Be sure that I'll be watching your posts a little more closely.

I'll take a page out of Jim's book here, and say: if you think I'm scum, Nerjin, then why aren't you VOTING me?

Jim called me out for it, and I'm not voting him because I have no reason to actually think Jim is scum. 
But you? It's a day before Lynch, the votes are coming in, you just came out and TOLD me I'm scum to my face, and then:

you
didn't
vote.

Why not, Nerjin? At least Kamin is consistent; and I think he really believes what he is saying about me.  I think YOU, however, are just a tagalong, bandwagoning scum, and you don't care who we lynch tonight, as long as it isn't you.

[Wow, I hope you're scum and I can look back on this as the first good example of me using deduction.]

Well I think you’re scum. I’m SURE Mark is. He’s my top suspect right now. He’s lurking right now to try to get us to forget about his tells and move onto other people. Until he assuages some of my fears he is my top suspect. You are #2 although your above response has lowered my suspicion [for now].

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 06, 2012, 07:47:38 pm

Nerjin, answer my questions.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 06, 2012, 08:11:01 pm

Sorry I didn’t realize you asked a question Jim [May I call you Jim?] Well let’s get the embarrassing part out of the way.
The first two points are now totally irrelevant. He has answered the switch in opinion to my satisfaction. Should I elaborate on that a bit more or not?

 

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 01:05:45 pm

[IC's + Tiruin: If I stay in the game my participation is going to drop to probably like 0.85 high-quality posts per day due to the aforementioned IRL ass-biting.  What would you prefer, that I RR like I currently am and bow out, or that I stick around with a significantly reduced level of participation?]

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:43:24 pm

@vodot, you thought the possibility that we may think you prefer Jim off the game because you are scum and he is townie?

Yep. If he and I were even remotely evenly skilled, that's exactly what i'd do if I were scum. As it stands, don't be foolish: given the gap in our skill levels, regardless of how hard I tried to cloak my Jimbotting [can I use that as a verb?]  he would just eat me and move on. 

I think I feel so safe going after Jim because I know that he can spot my true alignment, right now, from ten miles away.  So if he's scum, we newbs had better start preparing for an epic battle against him or Shake. And if he's town, I have no real need to be concerned about him retaliating or eating me; he almost certainly knows my alignment already.

I'm not dismissing your concern. I think it's valid. I just know it is ultimately unmerited.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 12:45:22 pm

Seems like a stupid question, I know, but seeing he is an IC, if townie, it could help us better, I think.

See, this is the dangerous line of thinking I'm talking about.  Jim will still IC this game even if he's dead: there is no reason to fear lynching him based on his IC-ness and reputation alone.  Don't get complacent.
[/quote]
First off what is Jimbotting? Is that a phrase?
The reason I find this suspicious is that he’s going after you for no reason other than that he figures you’d be a powerful enemy. Why is he so worried about you when you’ve shown no scum-tells? I’m suspicious of you too but that’s because you haven’t proven you’re town yet. It appears, here, that he’s saying “Jim would be powerful as scum. Let’s lynch him just in case.” It just strikes me as scummy.

Quote from: vodot on September 06, 2012, 03:03:16 pm

-Snip-
@Everyone else who think's I'm scum damn stupid enough to lynch the ICs in broad daylight on D1 without having or citing any evidence against them at all:
Maybe this will help clarify my mindset: I came in fully expecting that an IC could roll scum.  If that happened, I expected that IC (like any good mafia) to at some point give some poor sucker misleading information during the game, use that misinformation to their advantage to win, and then use the whole situation as an educational talking point in the dead/after-game chat.

How can that not be a possibility, given that the ICs are ostensibly also trying to win?  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, ok— maybe that isn't allowed, or something— but I do not want to be that sucker. If they are scum, they will try to lie convincingly to us at some point.  How can I not desire to guard myself, at least, from buying that lie?  This is why I really like Shake's use of brackets so that I can tell the difference between gameplay and advice; and it's probably part of the reason why I'm still *feeling* a little more touchy around Jim.

All, please pay attention to who is going after me for this.  I'm playing an aggressive game with the IC's, but I'm playing an equally aggressive game with everyone else, too.  This "lynch the IC's!!" strawman they're putting up is pretty serious and it is a great point of attack.  They are going to go after me for it to try and get me out of the game without having to spend an NK on me.

TL;DR: I prefer direct solutions.  I'd just NK Jim if I were scum and afraid of him, and don't WIFOM me here.  That is what I would do, and it's how I answered your first question on day one, Kamin.

He gets very upset that people are worried with his logic. Very angry. I’m lead to believe that outbursts of anger when challenged is a scum-tell. Even if it’s not he says that the IC’s have to be scum or at the very least one of them. He also seems to think that the IC’s would be able to get away with giving faulty gameplay related information. Maybe I read it wrong, but if that’s the case then he’s either A) Not thinking or B) Hoping we are not. I’m pretty sure the fine folks who run this board-set wouldn’t let people who take advantage of new players to IC in a BM. If that makes sense ya know?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 08:20:51 pm

Kamin

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

I haven't gotten a good read on you Sox, so if you had anything constructive to say, now might be the time to say it.

My job in this is to find scum. It is not to give you a background check on myself. I've had several posts, you can look at those. If you can't get anything from that, then you question me to get something out of me. You were essentially FoSing me because you were being lazy. Do you have any reasons for this?
@Wrex-I'm so sorry about those circumstances. Thanks so much for playing.

Kingfisher-You know from experience how hard it is to stay active and not get emotional eventually(espcially in your first game). You were lynched largely due to this as town, so why suspect someone for it?

Mark-On post 123, you essentially made a RVS vote(even if I misinterrperited it, it came with a RVS question). Even then, we were far past the RVS stage of the game.  Why did you feel it was needed to ask that question? In addition, you never answered his questions, all of which were essentially questioning wheter your actions which appeared scummy. How come you never answered those questions?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 08:47:48 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 08:20:51 pm

Kamin

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

I haven't gotten a good read on you Sox, so if you had anything constructive to say, now might be the time to say it.

My job in this is to find scum. It is not to give you a background check on myself. I've had several posts, you can look at those. If you can't get anything from that, then you question me to get something out of me. You were essentially FoSing me because you were being lazy. Do you have any reasons for this?

Reasons? Because nothing you've posted has substance. When you post, it's short, and it happens relatively rarely. Calling me "lazy" is a tad out of line given that context, no? I'm not sure about you based on that information. You haven't really voted yet, either, so I have no idea where you stand. Do you see where I'm coming from? My FoS is my way of getting you to include more content later; it's not a vote. Not yet. Understand?

And also, the point of this game is kind of to give people a background check on yourself. Otherwise they're lynched as question-dodging, lurker scum. Try to keep that in mind later.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 09:09:53 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 08:47:48 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 08:20:51 pm

Kamin

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

I haven't gotten a good read on you Sox, so if you had anything constructive to say, now might be the time to say it.

My job in this is to find scum. It is not to give you a background check on myself. I've had several posts, you can look at those. If you can't get anything from that, then you question me to get something out of me. You were essentially FoSing me because you were being lazy. Do you have any reasons for this?

Reasons? Because nothing you've posted has substance. When you post, it's short, and it happens relatively rarely. Calling me "lazy" is a tad out of line given that context, no? I'm not sure about you based on that information. You haven't really voted yet, either, so I have no idea where you stand. Do you see where I'm coming from? My FoS is my way of getting you to include more content later; it's not a vote. Not yet. Understand?

And also, the point of this game is kind of to give people a background check on yourself. Otherwise they're lynched as question-dodging, lurker scum. Try to keep that in mind later.

Given that context, yes it's a little out of line. However, if you don't think I'm posting enough content, then ask me questions to post more content. My read on this was that you FoSed me simply so you could get a reaction to save you some work. The reason I haven't voted yet is primarily because I'm not seeing anyone who looks to be definite scum. I probably would have voted Wrex, however he's up for replacement now, and I'll have to wait for a replacement to get a better read on him. And I understand that you aren't voting me-thankfully I'm not colorblind :D. While you're right that you have to give them a background check, you can't just step foward and say, "here's this, this, and that information. Make of it what you will." I feel that it's less scummy to wait until you're asked for information to give it. I hope that adressed your questions(btw, ironically enough, if this was the last BM, I'd actually be one of the more active players at this point. I'm not saying that it's the reason for a low post count, I'm just pointing out how much more active this is)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 09:31:21 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 09:09:53 pm

Given that context, yes it's a little out of line. However, if you don't think I'm posting enough content, then ask me questions to post more content. My read on this was that you FoSed me simply so you could get a reaction to save you some work. The reason I haven't voted yet is primarily because I'm not seeing anyone who looks to be definite scum. I probably would have voted Wrex, however he's up for replacement now, and I'll have to wait for a replacement to get a better read on him. And I understand that you aren't voting me-thankfully I'm not colorblind :D. While you're right that you have to give them a background check, you can't just step foward and say, "here's this, this, and that information. Make of it what you will." I feel that it's less scummy to wait until you're asked for information to give it. I hope that adressed your questions(btw, ironically enough, if this was the last BM, I'd actually be one of the more active players at this point. I'm not saying that it's the reason for a low post count, I'm just pointing out how much more active this is)

You're right, and I appreciate you being candid. I just suppose that I'm kind of on the fence about asking questions now, since we're past the RVS stage (although I'm not entirely clear why that means we shouldn't ask questions in some form or another). However, I'm not blaming you for that; I blame myself for not asking you before RVS and understanding the game as well as I should. If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else  :P

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 06, 2012, 10:11:52 pm

"Hey, looks like they're heating up the forge and getting firewood. I wonder what the trial for today would be? I mean, I'm a piece of paper but I can smeeeeel them coals."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (1) - vodot
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (2) - markressler, Wrex
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Wrex (2) - Shakerag, kingfisher1112
• Jim Groovester (0) -
• Shakerag (0) -

Not voting: wsoxfan, Jim Groovester

"If anyone has their vote and I've missed it. Tell me! I don't want that stick to write on me...please no."


((Day 1 will end at September 7, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Meaning ~10 hours from the time of this post!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance!))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 10:27:35 pm

I suppose this would be the time people want to ask for extensions? So far, what we have would result in a no lynch. If anybody wants an extension, I suppose that should probably be voiced.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 10:38:29 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 10:27:35 pm

I suppose this would be the time people want to ask for extensions? So far, what we have would result in a no lynch. If anybody wants an extension, I suppose that should probably be voiced.

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie. I would like to do more investigating, but I believe I have a good case on Wrex as is. So I'll vote Wrex now, and if I find more conclusive evidence on someone else, then I'll change my vote.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 07, 2012, 03:17:14 am

Sox: They had a point. It was scummy. It may have happened to me, still doesnt change anything. But Vodot has given me some good response so i am less suspicious of him. For now.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement Needed!
Post by: Tiruin on September 07, 2012, 07:03:29 am

""Swords! Swords!

"It's going to be a trial by battle! The people will rejoice!""

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (1) - vodot
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (2) - markressler, Wrex
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Wrex (3) - Shakerag, kingfisher1112, wsoxfan
• Jim Groovester (0) -
• Shakerag (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester

"I've outlined the competitor ((to be lynched)) in red for easier...stuff"

((Day 1 will end at September 7, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Meaning ~1 hour from the time of this post!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance!))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Night 1, Trial by Combat - Victory?
Post by: Tiruin on September 07, 2012, 08:05:30 am

"Curse this! You're the saboteur! I bloody know it!"

"I say nay, sir Knight! He is the one!"

"How dare ye befoul my honor! I held my sword in the defense of the keep!"

"Quiet!"

The clamor of the convicted parties died down as their leader approached, all eyes drawn on him as he held up the sandglass.

It was empty.

"Right, you! Sir Gavorn. Stand over there. We settle this through the rite of battle. Make your choice of your opponent and we settle this by the glory of the Creator."

"I challenge whosoever sent me to this place!"

The man licked his lips before nodding and gesturing to the far end of the courtyard opposite him.

"You'll be facing a man who I know will be able to dispense justice, or die trying. Strip thyself of thy armor, and face him in honourable combat."

In silence, the accused removed his gauntlets, sabatons and any other covering of the hands and feet along with any other metallic armor on him and placed them on the table, where they were gathered by several squires. The knight was left with nothing but cloth on him from top to bottom.

"Take thy sword and thy house shield. For now, you face Sir Devon Alarai, Champion of the seven realms and Marshall to the King!"

A deathly silence followed, and all eyes shifted their gaze to the direction in which the man was pointing. There, at the gate stood a hulking man, six feet tall and clad in the same armor Gavorn wore -- linen clothing, bearing a blackish shield and an ornate longsword. He strode into the space, and all could feel the tension in the air.

"Hail, sir knight. Shall we begin?" he intoned. Gavorn only nodded in reply.

The scene was of an auburn hue, made so by the setting sun, of sixty feet square. The light streamed over the walls and onto the duelist's sides, so as to not give an advantage to either. The sigil of the flame mirrored that of the lion on their surcoats. With an acknowledging nod from the watcher, the duel started in earnest.

Brilliant orange and yellow danced around the knights' swords as they wove in and out of each other's reach. Shields met each other with a sonorous clang as the pair tried to strike at their opponent's blindside, egged on by the cheers of the crowd. The combatants were fierce, yet noble in their strikes, employing the best of what they were taught and using the tactics of yore.

And then, the end came as swiftly as it started. A shade of crimson fell on the land as the Marshall parried the strike with the pommel and drove his blade through his opponents midriff, bringing it out in a clean motion before moving it to the side of the nape.

"Do you yield?"

"I stay loyal to the end."

With the flick of a wrist, the knight fell to the ground in a pool of his own blood. Followed by the sheathing of a sword and the movement of boots. The duel was over, and the body was gathered for the burial rites. It was quite a while before the crowd's applause died down after the duel, though.

"It is done. Let it now be known that-"

"Milord, wait!...

"He's one of us."

It was a squire, a boy of no older than fourteen who spoke. He held up a ring of keys and picks that resembled that of a royal armorer, styled and made out of the finest iron and branded with the sigil of the burning flame.

"Impossible...Providence is deemed-"

"To be determined in truth, yes. While we may have sacrificed an honest man, no sorcery can tell a lie, here. Unless there is foul play afoot. You, knight! Search the halls tonight, make sure nobody will escape the area. If we've a magic-user in the place, he or she cannot be far from our location to shift the hand of fate.

"I will be here until the end."

The Marshall returned to his place, leaving the man to disperse the crowds for the night as well as show the nobility watching to their provided quarters. Lastly, he turns to you all.

"Alright lads, I don't know what happened there, but things have gone awry. You will all be provided your personal quarters in the Aerie -- the highest tower of the mountain fane. We continue in the morning, the same trial applies at dawn.

"Fare thee well, knights."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (1) - vodot
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (2) - markressler, Wrex
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Wrex (3) - Shakerag, kingfisher1112, wsoxfan
• Jim Groovester (0) -
• Shakerag (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester

---

((Wrex has been lynched! He was the Town Cop!))

Quote

Sir Richard "Wrex" Gavorn

You are the Quartermaster of the Iridescent Flame {Town Cop}, one of the elders of the archaic monastic order. You carry the lock and keys to the archives and librariums of your people, and have always been entrusted with keeping the dishes clean. Your oath to the King and to your lord has given you the freedom to browse the archives every night in your quest for vindication due to recent events, and though you have been an influential individual in the presence of nobility for most of your life, your only weapons here are your tongue and your keys.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Inspect any individual to discover their alignment {which will read: Town or Mafia}. You cannot inspect yourself.))

---

((Night 1 will end at September 10, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

The game has entered the night phase, no one may post during the night phase and the thread will be locked to ensure as such.

Please submit your actions via PM, if any. The Night will end at the time stated or until all probable actions are sent in. The Night will not obviously end on the Weekend.))

"Well, at least he won't be needing refreshments anymore."

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 10, 2012, 08:21:22 am

”Time is precious, and as countless as the sand in the sea.”

The coming morning was a splendid one. The preceding night, your leader held a feast in honor of the King, the Marshal, and for the large number of the commonfolk attending the unconventional trials (also for your good etiquette, nobles). As you gather by the courtyard, a terrible scene unfolds.

In the middle of the area lay a broken body, armor shattered and sword broken. The banner of the Iridescent flame was evident on the shield which hung limply by his arm. As you search the area, it seems like he was struck down on the spot by a hidden blade, or perhaps the sky fell on him. You aren't sure.

Nevertheless, your leader breaks out into the same attitude as yesterday night -- despondency.

"Sir Conricht, a knight banneret of our order. You will be sorely missed."

"His swordplay was unlike anything ever seen, I am saddened by his loss."

You all turn to see a familiar man, now clad in black plate standing by your side as he draws the familiar table. The Marshall has returned.

"This is a defiance to what we stand for. Who would kill a man under trial when it can easily be settled by words?! I've had patrols scouring the areas, and all we could find of magic was a squirrel with two tails!"

"Calm down, sir knight, we all feel the same about this loss. Our rallying man has been judged unfortunately, and we can do nothing else but continue this."

"Then finish it quickly, I'd not want this to take the whole day! The sun shines above, this better be over before it sets. The whole deal."

Your leader unfolds another familiar piece of paper, empty only for differences in the names of yesterday.

"Let's get on with it."

As you begin the start of your day, you can see several men attending to the body of Sir Conricht, one of them positioning a banner by your side. You lay your spears, complete with pennoncelles, beside it in honor of the dead and the coming trial.

((Shakerag has been slain! He was a Vanilla Townie!))

Quote

Sir Wilhelm "Shakerag" Conricht

You are a Knight Banneret of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, an elder and holder of the order's flag and status. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your wisdom in the war of words.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie

You are an IC!))

---

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, Kamin, Nerjin, vodot, wsoxfan, kingfisher1112, markressler

((Day 2 will end at September 13, 2012 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance!))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 08:46:59 am

Oh no. We are truly up shit creek without a paddle. Cop gone, shake gone...

Gentlemen, it's time for some serious Scumhunting.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Shakerag on September 10, 2012, 09:20:36 am

Ahh, the first time I've been NK'd as an IC.  I shall treasure this memory fondly.

[So, yes, as it may have been stated before, death is a trifling matter for ICs.  Yes, I can't vote or comment on the game directly, but I'll still be about to crack all of you over the head with a shovel if necessary. 

Now that there have been two roleflips, this is an excellent time to review D1 with the knowledge that Wrex and I are confirmed town.  Look at interactions, look at lack of interactions.  Update whatever mental theories you have on who may or may not be scum.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 10, 2012, 12:37:40 pm

Well done markressler. Until such a time as more evidence presents itself I stand by my case that Mark is a scum. And now for flavor.

While the assembled drank in the sight of the broken body which lay in the yard Sir Nerjin sighed to himself. 'Who would kill such an old man? It's impossible that it could have been him. War is a young man's game and...' Aloud he declared the next part of his thoughts "Fiends, whomever you are, I declare that I shall not rest until Sir Wilhelm's death is avenged! I take it upon myself personally to rip the life from your treacherous bodies until his soul may rest in peace." Glancing around at the assembled his eyes rested upon Sir Mark "I know it was you who caused his death. I suggest you admit it while you can. We will find you guilty Sir Mark. Admit to your sins and the gods will have enough mercy to make your death swift." Once again he addressed the rest of the group "To any of the others who assemble here and are in league with this villainous scum I implore you to take heed of my offer. We will find you. Your tainted souls cannot hide forever." When none stepped forward Sir Nerjin sighed "Very well. We shall find you the old fashioned way." [NOTE: Nothing in flavor has any gameplay meaning. Hope it was entertaining. let the hunt begin anew.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 10, 2012, 07:44:55 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

-Voted sox then reasons- You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

What do you mean by that last part?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 08:45:29 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

My reasons for voting Wrex? First of all, I was not happy about being forced into that situation. I was not completely convinced that he was scum, and would have liked more time. However, I voted for him because I have heard numerous times(including once from Hapah on this thread) that a no-lynch on D1 is bad. Of the two who were on the chopping block, I found Wrex much scummier than you, and though I would have appreciated more time to feel around more, though no one asked for an extend-so I decided to forgo it as well. Also, if you look at my posts(which you clearly have since you have such exact numbers) you will see that I had several reasons there for finding him scummy. However, I am curious to see your though process, so while I do a more detailed reread, tell me who you think is scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 09:35:32 pm

Alright, here's my thoughts after I reread the thread-
Markressler-

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

This is old, but it should be brought up again-RVS is not a reason to OMGUS. Why did you feel panicked enough to do it? I don't believe I saw an answer as to why you did this.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:19:31 pm

Also, unvote. Since I've admitted to vote just as a counter-vote, there's no point to not unvote.

In addition, here you essentially admit to this being an OMGUS and after that you unvote. Are you trying to play up the new player image as a disguise?

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 07:42:04 am

@Jim, I'm used to Mafiascum games, not because I've played there, because I've read a lot of games there. They play a bit different, because they have longer deadlines. They start the day asking dumb questions and such, they don't jump straight to ask questions like king's. I was mistaken to think that mafiascum and bay12 played the same, so I was a bit surprised with king's questions, and that was my reaction, ask him to answer his own questions.

And yeah, Wrex, you are asking less questions than me. Why?

Also, King, you are not asking a lot of questions neither, why do you jump against Wrex?

This is actually what I find the most interesting. You post this asking why Wrex and Kingfisher haven't posted more, and now you haven't posted for the past 5 days(or four pages). Hypocrite, much?

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 10:03:25 am

And more than half of your posts seem to be evading questions and don't asking anything. I see your lack of activity, your evasion and your excuses really suspicious. The reasons you are giving are a bit hypocrite.

More hypocricy. And here you call out Kingfisher for being a hypocrite. So as I sit here now, can you tell me why this label of being a hypocrite doesn't apply to you too Markressler?
Kingfisher-After re-reading the thread, as far as posts go, you haven't had very many. There was the point where you and Mark were arguing for a page, and after that you did start posting more. At least I've been constant with posting. Also, I notice several interesting things in your argument with Mark-

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 09:49:30 am

I have school. And sleep. And things like that. Then again, you seem to have been fairly reactionary, instead of asking questions. But, Wrex seems suspicious.
Nerjin: Please answer the question.
Wsoxfan: Please rank your top three scumpicks.

I've got to sleep and I've got to go to school also, and you've attacked me for that. There's my defense.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 09:59:27 am

Half of your posts seem to be reactions to accusations, and unfortunately most things happen at around midnight here.

I find this very interesting. When you posted this, you had asked next to no questions(I think I had more than you at that point), and you had posted saying that Wrex seemed scummy. That was the amount of content that you had posted when this was said.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 05, 2012, 10:17:25 am

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

Alright. This little gem REALLY set me off. Really. This post is incredibly scummy. This says to me " You nasty man, I have no reason to vote you. Oh wait, it's RVS. VOTE VOTE VOTE. "  How in the hell does RVS give a legitimate reason to vote? And you say luckily which REALLY sets off all kinds of alarms.

This post. If you truly felt that post was so scummy, why didn't you vote him for this? What at that time was so complelling about voting for Wrex that you decided that he'd be better than Mark?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 11, 2012, 02:59:31 am

Just because I'm doing it doesn't mean I can't scum hunt peop.e who are doing it. Now, I try very hard to post as often as I can, but sometimes I just don't have time. I'm managing at least 2 posts a day.

Anyway, I have to say you have made a very convincing case. Unvote.
Getting in a reread tonight.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 am

[MOD: do we have a prod out for Mark?]  I know it must be hard for him to remember to type a few obligatory sentences in this thread every once in a while to keep up the illusion that he's still playing, but we all have problems. 

[Also, and feel free to just insta-reject this suggestion out of hand, but can we get a timer on your posts indicating how many hours are left in each day?  I was totally taken off guard by the last day ending because the thread time is so far ahead (+13 hours) of my local time.]

Jim: You're being non-commital, and the only player you've seriously pressed (me) is the only one that has engaged you at all.  Why? And what would you have done if you were Sox, unsure of either player's guilt but with the power to break a tie? 

Mark: I know you're having trouble keeping up with your [hugesarcasticairquotes] terrible [/hugesarcasticairquotes] English, so I'll repeat the above question in your mother tongue: Lurky lur klur klu-R-klu rk, Lurklur Klurky?  (I still expect an answer)

Nerjin: You bandwagon me without voting, being content to just leave an FoS on me when you were "convinced" I was scum.  Then when Jim and I call you to the carpet, first you retreated while completely ignoring our questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588862#msg3588862). Then when Jim asks again, you  kiss his ass like it was your job (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588942#msg3588942) and still manage to avoid answering his questions.  You started this game out by dodging questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3581806#msg3581806), but you're going to finish it by stumbling through your failed attempts to explain yourself to me here on D2, scum. Now:

Why did you pander like a schoolchild to Jim?  Why did you not VOTE me on D1?  Why did you bandwagon me with no evidence at all? And why did you immediately retreat the moment I countered? 

Kamin: Are you ready to admit that you bandwagoned mark, that you still haven't delivered any evidence to support your D1 vote, and that you were content to watch Wrex be lynched without an extension when you were "certain" I was scum?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 11, 2012, 03:33:10 am

Homework comes before mafia. I'll get to posting later. Don't expect it tomorrow though.

In the meantime, get to work, people. You have two flips to look at and all of Day 1 to look at in their context. There's plenty of material available for perusal, analysis, and questions.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 11, 2012, 06:46:07 am

Quote from: vodot on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 am

[MOD: do we have a prod out for Mark?]  I know it must be hard for him to remember to type a few obligatory sentences in this thread every once in a while to keep up the illusion that he's still playing, but we all have problems. 

[Also, and feel free to just insta-reject this suggestion out of hand, but can we get a timer on your posts indicating how many hours are left in each day?  I was totally taken off guard by the last day ending because the thread time is so far ahead (+13 hours) of my local time.]

"Request granted."

"Wh- it's the same map from yesterday!"

"Cheers for jovial company."

"Pardon me, but what time is it exactly? I don't want to arouse the ire of the Marshal."

"Ahh, listen lad. The people have gathered at the chapel for the Tierce -- prayers sung between the brink of dawn and midday, when the sun is at it's peak."

The knights gave the map one last look of suspicion from it's seemingly out-of-place-answer-to-nobody before returning to their debate.

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (1) - vodot
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, Kamin, kingfisher1112, wsoxfan, markressler

Between the hour of the Swallow and the Raven.

((Day 2 will end at September 13, 2012 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

49 hours, 20 minutes and ~14 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you refresh a lot.))

---

Quote from: Shakerag on September 06, 2012, 04:45:32 pm

[Tiruin: Loving the flavor so far.  Good job.]

Thanks you! :))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 11, 2012, 11:56:00 am

Quote from: vodot on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 am

-snip-
Nerjin: You bandwagon me without voting, being content to just leave an FoS on me when you were "convinced" I was scum.  Then when Jim and I call you to the carpet, first you retreated while completely ignoring our questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588862#msg3588862). Then when Jim asks again, you  kiss his ass like it was your job (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588942#msg3588942) and still manage to avoid answering his questions.  You started this game out by dodging questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3581806#msg3581806), but you're going to finish it by stumbling through your failed attempts to explain yourself to me here on D2, scum. Now:

Why did you pander like a schoolchild to Jim?  Why did you not VOTE me on D1?  Why did you bandwagon me with no evidence at all? And why did you immediately retreat the moment I countered? 

-snip-

There are a few problems with your theory:
1.   I didn’t vote on you because while I think you’re scum I KNOW that Mark is. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again until you get all the scum out of your ears and listen.
2.   I answered his questions. I spent post #166 talking about how a vanilla townie wouldn’t be so worried about Jim simply because he’s an IC. ESPECIALLY when that IC has yet to show any Scumtells. So who would be worried about an IC who hasn’t done any scumtells? A scum.

Now to answer questions:
1.   I don’t see how I pander like a schoolchild but I think I know what you mean. Jim is a teacher here so I find it appropriate to give him a decent amount of respect as he is taking time from his busy schedule to inform us on how to play the game. That being said the second he tries anything scummy I’m voting for him.
2.   We’re back to this again. I am sure that you’re scum. I KNOW that Mark is scum. I’ll take a confirmed scum lynch over suspected scum lynch any day of the week.
3.   I presented my case as best I could. Is it even a bandwagon if I’m not voting you by the way? Either way I find that you are acting scummy enough to be my #2 suspect.
4.   I “retreated” so to speak because you negated ½ of my argument when you explained your sudden switch from “Let’s not lynch at all on day one” [wonderful math by the way] to “Let’s lynch lynch LYNCH!”

Now if I may ask you a question? Why are you voting so hard for me? I get the feeling that it's an OMGUS but I want to be clear on the matter. What is your evidence exactly?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

[Flavor post! Doesn't impact the game.]
Kamin gazes despondently upon the broken body of his former brother-in-arms. He feels that those who were supposed to be his comrades are no longer trustworthy, and that pains him to no end. Kamin internalizes the awful information the scene imparts, and knows that it just as easily could have happened to him. There is no doubt in his mind that he is marked for death, just like the once-ardent Sir Conricht. He silently wills the night to remain beyond the horizon, wishing helplessly for the sun to never again set.

Quote from: vodot on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 am

Kamin: Are you ready to admit that you bandwagoned mark, that you still haven't delivered any evidence to support your D1 vote, and that you were content to watch Wrex be lynched without an extension when you were "certain" I was scum?

Here you go again. I didn't bandwagon Mark. I've explained that to you. And I'm rightly tired of you digging for some other answer that doesn't exist, Vodot. Now that Wrex is gone, we don't even have a cop to point your scummy ass out of the crowd. I've been pretty adamant that I think you're scum, just like last time--your probing won't change that. Oh, and here's my "evidence" again (we've been over this, just as I explained to you how "evidence" works in this game.)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588182#msg3588182 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588182#msg3588182)

I love your witch hunt, Vodot, but I'm afraid the one pointing the finger is actually the one to blame. You don't seem all that upset about Shakerag; why is that? Are you upset with your NK decision because Shake was only a vanilla townie? I imagine Jim is the next on your NK/lynch list, huh? God knows those ICs are dangerous!

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 08:45:29 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

My reasons for voting Wrex? First of all, I was not happy about being forced into that situation. I was not completely convinced that he was scum, and would have liked more time. However, I voted for him because I have heard numerous times(including once from Hapah on this thread) that a no-lynch on D1 is bad. Of the two who were on the chopping block, I found Wrex much scummier than you, and though I would have appreciated more time to feel around more, though no one asked for an extend-so I decided to forgo it as well. Also, if you look at my posts(which you clearly have since you have such exact numbers) you will see that I had several reasons there for finding him scummy. However, I am curious to see your though process, so while I do a more detailed reread, tell me who you think is scum.

Sox: You seemed pretty quick to vote for Wrex. You did not ask for an extension, and that's on you. Just because nobody else voiced a wish for it doesn't mean that you shouldn't--you just voted. 

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 10:38:29 pm

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.

That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

Nerjin: You seem to be pretty partial to Jim, so why might that be? Is there some secret club I'm unaware of? You said:

Quote from: Nerjin on September 11, 2012, 11:56:00 am

I answered his questions. I spent post #166 talking about how a vanilla townie wouldn’t be so worried about Jim simply because he’s an IC. ESPECIALLY when that IC has yet to show any Scumtells. So who would be worried about an IC who hasn’t done any scumtells? A scum.

Now this is interesting thinking... an IC is cleared to fly so quickly because they "have yet to show any scumtells?" So are you implying that, say, a lurker isn't scum because they don't "show any scumtells?" That's quite intriguing reasoning. I'd like to know more about it.

King: You're sitting pretty today, aren't you? You jumped all over Sox for a tiebreaker on someone you yourself voted for. That's a pretty interesting approach; throw out a straw man for everybody to beat on while you laugh at the poor bastards that end up at the end of the rope. Sox is a really easy target, truth be told--it's pretty suspicious that you'd jump all over him like you did before just backing off. That whole interplay between the two of you almost seemed scripted... "Here's an argument." "Oh, ok. You're not scum..." *wiiiink* So why did you jump to attack Sox? And why did you just content yourself with his answer and back off? Tell me that you don't think that's a bit scummy.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 11, 2012, 06:44:30 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 08:45:29 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

My reasons for voting Wrex? First of all, I was not happy about being forced into that situation. I was not completely convinced that he was scum, and would have liked more time. However, I voted for him because I have heard numerous times(including once from Hapah on this thread) that a no-lynch on D1 is bad. Of the two who were on the chopping block, I found Wrex much scummier than you, and though I would have appreciated more time to feel around more, though no one asked for an extend-so I decided to forgo it as well. Also, if you look at my posts(which you clearly have since you have such exact numbers) you will see that I had several reasons there for finding him scummy. However, I am curious to see your though process, so while I do a more detailed reread, tell me who you think is scum.

Sox: You seemed pretty quick to vote for Wrex. You did not ask for an extension, and that's on you. Just because nobody else voiced a wish for it doesn't mean that you shouldn't--you just voted. 

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 10:38:29 pm

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.

That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

First of all, why are you getting on me about not voting for an extension if you didn't either? I already outlined my reasons for why I voted him in an earlier post. Also, considering how that post oozed of scum, you must sincerly doubt what you're saying. If you're that certain I'm scum, then vote me. As I explained to King, I only did that because of how much it's been stressed a no-lynch is bad. Also, if I was to believe everything that you're saying, then me, vodot, and Kingfisher are all scumbuddies. Would you like to clarify this? Your tone has been rather accustory, which leads to some... conclusions.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 11, 2012, 06:54:31 pm

I've got to admit I'm pretty weak sauce right now. I won't have real time until tomorrow and if my vote stayed then I would be bombarded with ' WHY U VOTE SOX' while I was gone. And he seems less suspicious after that. He is still suspicious, just not as much. And what is with all of this ' Easy Target' bullshit?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 11, 2012, 07:41:12 pm

@Nerjin,
My vote has been for you since D1 when you dodged those initial two questions, and it has never wavered. If you need to find an OMGUS in this situation, check the mirror.

My vote has stayed on you becuase of the generally shoddy way that you have tried to back up your accusations of me, and becuase of the way you responded to Jim and I D1. That being said, I actually like your response to this latest bout of 'hyperactive-assery' enough to unvote you.

I'm not going to apologize for calling you out for kissing ass, becuase that's what you were doing.

@Kamin,
...The post you linked as your "evidence, again" has no evidence.  Its just your explanation for why you don't think you need to provide evidence.  Moreover, you make zero effort to address the fact that allowed wrex to be lynched without an extension. 

We're not moving forward at all in this discussion. Yes, You're tired of my questions, and yes, I know you're voting me. Joy. You've refused to relent on your "vodot wants to lynch the ICs!" tack despite my efforts to show you that I was operating under a genuinely mistaken assumption.  I want to make progress, but you're not even making an effort to address the content of how I'm responding and what I'm asking you.

While I'm waiting for Sox and Jim to answer my questions (I'm not really holding my breath for Mark),

King:
1. You've been watching this thread like a hawk, making sure you get in that crucial first post, both at game start and at the start of D2.  True or False?
2. How have the events of the last few pages changed your game?
 

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 11, 2012, 08:57:19 pm

@vodot-what question did I miss? I swore I answered all of them. Could you kindly redirect me to the question?

@kingfisher-could you answer my question in post 183?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 11, 2012, 11:41:10 pm

Sox, I'm sorry: I had a question posed to you in an earlier version of a post that I later removed.  It was about your role in casting the final vote on Wrex, but it's been discussed a bit and I'm trying to keep my posts shorter.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 12, 2012, 01:12:25 am

[re-reading this, I just realized I'm actually starting to forget that mark is even playing in my mind when I'm considering scum teams.  Is that happening to anyone else?]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 12, 2012, 01:24:57 am

Quote from: vodot on September 12, 2012, 01:12:25 am

[re-reading this, I just realized I'm actually starting to forget that mark is even playing in my mind when I'm considering scum teams.  Is that happening to anyone else?]

Everyone listen on the votecount is a player and is still playing.

((markressler has been prodded))

"Sir Knight, would you mind if I said 'please stop poking my armor'? I know how much you like steel but..."

"It's so shiny!"

"...nevermind ye."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, wsoxfan, markressler

Between the hour of the Raven and the Elk.

((Day 2 will end at September 13, 2012 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

30 hours, 37 minutes and ~34 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you refresh a lot.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 12, 2012, 02:21:35 am

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 12, 2012, 03:01:54 am

Vodot:
1. True so hard.
2. Going a bit more defensive.
Sox: Here's a ranked list.
1: Markressler
1:Wsoxfan
1: Kamin

These are th people im torn between voting for.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Shakerag on September 12, 2012, 10:45:03 am

Quote from: Nerjin on September 10, 2012, 12:37:40 pm

Well done markressler. Until such a time as more evidence presents itself I stand by my case that Mark is a scum. And now for flavor.

[If you think he's scum so much, what are you doing to convince everyone else of that fact?]

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 09:35:32 pm

hypocricy

[Isn't a scumtell. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93649.msg2686249#msg2686249)]

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 12, 2012, 02:21:35 am

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.

[Lurk moar, newb.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 12, 2012, 12:15:15 pm

I posted along list of scum tells that I believe Mark has commited on day 1. Add to that Lurking and I think we can all agree that he's pretty suspicious.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 12, 2012, 12:47:58 pm

Extend come on guys! We have to find the scum! Get back to scum-hunting and stop lurking! The only thing lurking does is help the scum!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 12, 2012, 03:46:39 pm

Vodot: The funny thing about your "evidence" is that it would only be satisfied by a copy of the Role PM. Very cute, and hardly absolving on your part. You're pulling the "Sox Defense": Try your hardest to make a claim about yourself seem insubstantial by selectively reading it--then weakly try to turn it around on the one asking the questions.

Sox: I do think you're scum. "Why don't you just vote me?" Easy to say, but a shitty defense--I have only one vote, friend, and we both know that so you should consider being less patronizing. It really makes you look bad. You might also want to try harder before making some truly vague claim about why my attack "oozed" scumminess; it makes everything you said look pretty weak under the headlights of my Justice. Explain how my question was unjustified or scummy.

Nerjin and King: I'm hoping for a little bit more from you guys, and since you've both posted a few times since I asked, I'm starting to assume you're dodging.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 12, 2012, 04:40:02 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 12, 2012, 03:46:39 pm

Sox: I do think you're scum. "Why don't you just vote me?" Easy to say, but a shitty defense--I have only one vote, friend, and we both know that so you should consider being less patronizing. It really makes you look bad. You might also want to try harder before making some truly vague claim about why my attack "oozed" scumminess; it makes everything you said look pretty weak under the headlights of my Justice. Explain how my question was unjustified or scummy.
You misread what I said(understandable, I worded that very poorly). I was not saying your attack oozed scuminess, I was saying that if my vote on wrex oozed scuminess, why didn't you vote for me? However, you've already answered it already. However, you, good sir, have not answered my question. How are me, king, and vodot scum-buddies?
Mark:I've had enough. I can see through your profile that you were on eight hours ago. You are lurking your way through this while still being online. I may drop this vote once you respond, until then it stays. I hope that you either post or we get a replacement for you soon.
extend I'd really like to hear from Mark before this day ends.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 12, 2012, 05:54:09 pm

[quote author=wsoxfan link=topic=115600.msg3605613#msg3605613 date=1347486002w
You misread what I said(understandable, I worded that very poorly). I was not saying your attack oozed scuminess, I was saying that if my vote on wrex oozed scuminess, why didn't you vote for me? However, you've already answered it already. However, you, good sir, have not answered my question. How are me, king, and vodot scum-buddies?
[/quote]
I just think that it was interesting you chose so quickly--or that's how it seemed to me. As far as you, King, and Vodot being scumbuddies, I know that is probably not the case. There's still Mark, who has indeed seemed to be lurking, and Jim, and Nerjin... So to be honest? It's hard to say. All I can assume is that there are at least two mafia, if the OP's Role List can be believed--one Godfather, one Roleblocker. There might not be either, which is possible, granted. But I highly doubt there is only one, even if one isn't anything but vanilla mafia scum. That wouldn't make sense, as the game would be imbalanced, and we haven't lynched one yet--so I assume there are at least two. As far as who they are, you can see who I suspect based on my vote and my FoS. Regardless, am I positive of who is who? No. I have not seen your guys' private Role PMs, and anything short of that is just simple deduction. Anybody who claims they have "hard evidence" of anybody in this game ever 100% being scum is blowing smoke up everybody's ass, so I am making as many useful and discerning observations as possible.

Just like when I made my first vote, I still obviously suspect Mark, especially with his OMGUS and his claim about how we would know if he was scum due to his poor grasp of English. But, as I feel we need to give everybody an equal chance, and something very well may have come up, I am willing to EXTEND. We can always vote to shorten later if he pops up soon, anyway.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 12, 2012, 07:10:09 pm

extend

With my lack of internet access at work this is just getting ludicrously difficult. I really DO look like an impatient (the hyperactive part I already knew) ass now, looking back at the beginning of this thread.  Is there a documented dynamic of BMs called the "Noob's Lament"?  Where you look back on your early play, even in the very same thread, and just cringe at your own suck?  If not, dibs on that trademark, naming rights reserved. :)

In related news, I printed out the thread so I could at least read it when I have some time. I'm going through noting every FoS and vote, and I'm really starting to like Kamin as one of my top suspects. You've made some really interesting posts, buddy, and at some interesting times.

I know I need to back that up: I just have zero time to post right now.  Really glad we're extending, I was getting stressed thinking about the lynch and forgot we could do that.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 12, 2012, 07:43:41 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 12, 2012, 07:10:09 pm

In related news, I printed out the thread so I could at least read it when I have some time. I'm going through noting every FoS and vote, and I'm really starting to like Kamin as one of my top suspects. You've made some really interesting posts, buddy, and at some interesting times.

Paint me red V; nothing like an incident of poorly-disguised OMGUS to hammer the scumminess home :P

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 12, 2012, 08:06:06 pm

((The DAY has been EXTENDED to MONDAY,

Also, I'm taking wsoxfan's vote in the quote as his vote. Seems he broke it.))

As the sun moved in it's natural pace in the sky, the Marshall approached the knights.

"So, lads. Have ye come up with your choice?"

"We're hungry sire!"
"No refreshments for us?"
"It's midday! Can we take a break?"
"Accursed autonomous collective rules..."

"I'm tired of waiting while justice is withheld. If I can all try you all now by my methods, then we wouldn't have this dispute."

"We're noblemen, sire and we've got our rights too. Just because you've got authority and power doesn't mean we have to grovel under you."

"I am your Marshal. Graced by Divine Right to lead the King's men in the security of the realm!"

"So says the man who killed our Quartermaster."

"Sign the paper now or I shall be forced to use my-"

"Oh come and see the violence in our system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

"Bloody p-...bah, fine. By the law and all other authority within the land I find myself unable to condemn anyone at the time of-"

"Popped corn! Get your popped corn here!"
"I'll have some!"
"Me too!"

"I don't even...Fine, have your break."

The ploy of the knights worked, though seemingly cliched and used, the Marshall did not suspect a thing. It would be the same as yesterday, awaiting the rise and set of the sun as before.

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (2) - Nerjin, wsoxfan
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, , markressler

Between the hour of the Elk and the Lion.

((Day 2 will end at September 17, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

96 hours, 18 minutes and ~29 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you refresh a lot or for the first time as it seems...))

"Why don't I ever get breaks..."

"You're a bloody map!"

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Shakerag on September 12, 2012, 09:01:55 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on September 12, 2012, 08:06:06 pm

"Oh come and see the violence in our system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

[Oh you.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 13, 2012, 03:53:29 am

I get the sense that the game is slowing down because of me. For that I apologize.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 10, 2012, 12:37:40 pm

Well done markressler. Until such a time as more evidence presents itself I stand by my case that Mark is a scum. And now for flavor.

This is several days late, but not so fast.

I dislike your congratulations here, since it reveals that you think you're incredibly certain about markressler being scum. Believing somebody is scum to the point of certainty is usually a problem, but especially so in Beginner's Mafias since nobody knows what they're doing and hence they're probably wrong.

You also can't really accuse any player of performing the night kill, since there's no way it could ever lead to any specific player. If you're going to call a player scum, it should only be in reference to evidence that's happened during the day or role results. That's for the most part the only legitimate evidence that can be used in role-light setup like this.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 11, 2012, 11:56:00 am

1.   I don’t see how I pander like a schoolchild but I think I know what you mean. Jim is a teacher here so I find it appropriate to give him a decent amount of respect as he is taking time from his busy schedule to inform us on how to play the game. That being said the second he tries anything scummy I’m voting for him.

On the one hand, I like it when people are deferential to me.

On the other hand, I don't like it when people are deferential to me.

All I care is that you respect my lessons. The man who gives them out, less so.

Quote from: vodot on September 11, 2012, 03:25:02 am

Jim: You're being non-commital, and the only player you've seriously pressed (me) is the only one that has engaged you at all.  Why? And what would you have done if you were Sox, unsure of either player's guilt but with the power to break a tie? 

Noncommittal is putting it nicely.

Before Day 1 ended, I was planning on going through the thread and finding things to question of Kamin and Nerjin since my gut was telling me that they're suspicious, as well as cast a vote on somebody. (I still plan on doing this but it'll have to wait for sometime tomorrow.) However, the day ended 16 hours earlier than I expected, since the mod lives in GMT+8 and I live in GMT-8. By the time I woke up the day was over.

Breaking a tie is sometimes easy and sometimes hard. If it's a choice between a player you're suspicious of who is not your top suspect and another who isn't your suspect, then the choice is obviously easy. From where I stood near the end of Day 1, I had no strong suspicion of either kingfisher111111112 or Wrex. The choice was not ideal at all, and I don't think I would've made a choice one way or the other. I make a big deal about any lynch being better than a no lynch, but then I'd be willing to coward out if I didn't have a reason to think either of the two players were scum. I would have voted who I thought was scum, tie be damned.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 09:35:32 pm

Hypocrite, much?

Hypocrisy isn't a scumtell, as brought up by Shakerag.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

[Flavor post! Doesn't impact the game.]

Anything you post has an impact on the game.

Anything you say is potential material for someone to use against you whether you meant it to or not.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

Now that Wrex is gone, we don't even have a cop to point your scummy ass out of the crowd.

But who needs a cop when there's players like you!

Decrying the loss of town players does nothing. What's your primary goal? To find scum. How does mourning the loss of dearly departed members of the town help you do that?

I suspect you did this because you think it makes you look more town. Well, it doesn't. Nightkills are a basic fact of mafia. They happen, it sucks. No use worrying about it. Anybody who does looks weird and they look like they're trying to look town in the hollowest way possible, which is scummy.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

Here you go again. I didn't bandwagon Mark. I've explained that to you. And I'm rightly tired of you digging for some other answer that doesn't exist, Vodot. Now that Wrex is gone, we don't even have a cop to point your scummy ass out of the crowd. I've been pretty adamant that I think you're scum, just like last time--your probing won't change that. Oh, and here's my "evidence" again (we've been over this, just as I explained to you how "evidence" works in this game.)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588182#msg3588182 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3588182#msg3588182)

That's your evidence?

That's the emptiest string of accusation devoid of evidence I've seen in a long time.

You can't shout out empty accusations and then claim that a player complaining about empty accusations is evidence that they're scum. You'll find that pretty much everyone has a problem with empty accusations.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

I love your witch hunt, Vodot, but I'm afraid the one pointing the finger is actually the one to blame. You don't seem all that upset about Shakerag; why is that? Are you upset with your NK decision because Shake was only a vanilla townie? I imagine Jim is the next on your NK/lynch list, huh? God knows those ICs are dangerous!

Yet more empty accusations.

You're throwing accusations at vodot that you don't have a chance in hell of ever proving, much less ever having even a shred of basis, so why are you throwing them out there?

There's literally nothing about the nightkill that could ever point to any specific player; that's the whole point of it. Any arguments based on it are automatically flawed for that reason.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 10:38:29 pm

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.

That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

It's not that scummy.

Quote from: Kamin on September 12, 2012, 03:46:39 pm

Vodot: The funny thing about your "evidence" is that it would only be satisfied by a copy of the Role PM. Very cute, and hardly absolving on your part. You're pulling the "Sox Defense": Try your hardest to make a claim about yourself seem insubstantial by selectively reading it--then weakly try to turn it around on the one asking the questions.

Useless hyperbole.

Get a case and try again.

Quote from: Shakerag on September 12, 2012, 10:45:03 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 12, 2012, 02:21:35 am

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.

[Lurk moar, newb.]

Shawt up.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Dariush on September 13, 2012, 06:41:15 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 13, 2012, 03:53:29 am

Quote from: Shakerag on September 12, 2012, 10:45:03 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 12, 2012, 02:21:35 am

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.

[Lurk moar, newb.]

Shawt up.

You'll never outlurk ME!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 13, 2012, 08:15:49 am

Quote from: Dariush on September 13, 2012, 06:41:15 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 13, 2012, 03:53:29 am

Quote from: Shakerag on September 12, 2012, 10:45:03 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 12, 2012, 02:21:35 am

Extend. I still haven't had a chance to look at this game.

[Lurk moar, newb.]

Shawt up.

You'll never outlurk ME!

Markressler seems to be trying. And failing.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 13, 2012, 07:12:15 pm

Mod:If Mark hasn't responded yet to your prod, can we put him up for replacement? As in now?

Title: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 13, 2012, 10:52:12 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 13, 2012, 07:12:15 pm

Mod:If Mark hasn't responded yet to your prod, can we put him up for replacement? As in now?

Well, I just came back online and it's past the 24 hour prod-poke.

So, yes. markressler is up for replacement! Checking his profile, it seems he's been gone for quite a long time without prior notice.

---

"Sir Knight, are you coming back to the table soon?"

"Just a bit...this is just like the water of life!"

"But everyone else is waiting!"

"One. More."

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 07:29:59 am

@allLurk moar newbs.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Shakerag on September 14, 2012, 02:17:41 pm

[DAY 2 STATS:

wsoxfan: 7 posts, no votes, last posted 7 hours ago.

kingfisher1112: 6 posts, not voting, last posted 30 hours ago.

Jim Groovester: 3 posts, no votes, last posted 35 hours ago.

Kamin: 4 posts, voting vodot, last posted 43 hours ago.

vodot: 5 posts, not voting, last posted 43 hours ago.

Nerjin: 5 posts, voting markressler, last posted 50 hours ago.

So, would any and or all of you like to continue playing the fucking game you signed up for?  Let's see some activity; let's see some scumhunting; and let's see some of you voting for who you think is scum.

You've got a full previous day of posts to draw from.  You've got two confirmed roleflips.  The material is there, now you just need to do something with it.

If you're going to complain about not knowing what to do, don't.  You will get no sympathy.  There is plenty of information to go on and make a meaningful post from.  If you're really truly lost, post something anyway, and the ICs will nudge you on the right path.  We respond much much better to earnest (if misguided) effort, not whining. 

If you're bored or maybe this is too hard for you then at least grow a pair and ask for a replacement before scurrying off to write your brony fanfic instead of lurking out of the game.  This is not directed at anyone in particular, before one of you gets your panties in a bunch.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 06:25:00 pm

*sigh* starting a re-read. If lurking is scummy, then everyone is scum. Dammit people, post!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 14, 2012, 07:26:48 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 14, 2012, 02:17:41 pm

[If you're bored or maybe this is too hard for you then at least grow a pair and ask for a replacement [...]

Oh dear, too many replacements! D:

Quote from: Tiruin on August 29, 2012, 07:06:00 pm

Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.

    > Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
    > If you stop playing my game altogether without notifying me, I will come looking for you.
    > Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.

Let's do this. Happy Weekends!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: webadict on September 14, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Need a replacement?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 14, 2012, 07:40:38 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 14, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Need a replacement?

For markressler, yes. He's been inactive for more than 5 days (well, not posted for more than that) and hasn't replied to my prods.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: webadict on September 14, 2012, 08:22:40 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on September 14, 2012, 07:40:38 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 14, 2012, 07:36:23 pm

Need a replacement?

For markressler, yes. He's been inactive for more than 5 days (well, not posted for more than that) and hasn't replied to my prods.

Okay.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 14, 2012, 08:31:40 pm

I have said everything that I think needs said. When others post a bit more I will be more than happy to analyze their posts. You also left Mark off that list. I still think he's scum. Vote Mark 2012 Scum-Mayor award. Why do I think he's scum? See my previous entries on the matter.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: vodot on September 14, 2012, 10:17:00 pm

Eh, I've got my target, but I only made it about a third of the way through my research. I need a couple hours to just sit and lay it out, and I think I have enough; but when I post, I'm going to want this guy lynched. It's a totally different game than I've been playing so far. 

[Building the casefile for an aggressive Lynch is way harder than hardassery or asking good questions.]

Honestly, after I saw the extension go through, I've been planning on waiting for the weekend to knock this out and actually do it right.  But if you're going to moan about it so hard, Shake, maybe I'll try to get it done tonight.  I feel like doing it half-assed is just way worse than not doing it at all, though, with everything under so much scrutiny.

We'll see. Kamin, if you intend on responding to Jim's questions before I go and pile onto you my critical examination of every one of your posts so far, the time to do it would be now.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm

@kamin-

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 09:31:21 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 09:09:53 pm

Given that context, yes it's a little out of line. However, if you don't think I'm posting enough content, then ask me questions to post more content. My read on this was that you FoSed me simply so you could get a reaction to save you some work. The reason I haven't voted yet is primarily because I'm not seeing anyone who looks to be definite scum. I probably would have voted Wrex, however he's up for replacement now, and I'll have to wait for a replacement to get a better read on him. And I understand that you aren't voting me-thankfully I'm not colorblind :D. While you're right that you have to give them a background check, you can't just step foward and say, "here's this, this, and that information. Make of it what you will." I feel that it's less scummy to wait until you're asked for information to give it. I hope that adressed your questions(btw, ironically enough, if this was the last BM, I'd actually be one of the more active players at this point. I'm not saying that it's the reason for a low post count, I'm just pointing out how much more active this is)

You're right, and I appreciate you being candid. I just suppose that I'm kind of on the fence about asking questions now, since we're past the RVS stage (although I'm not entirely clear why that means we shouldn't ask questions in some form or another). However, I'm not blaming you for that; I blame myself for not asking you before RVS and understanding the game as well as I should. If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else  :P

Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] ::).(post in question shown below.

Quote from: Kamin on September 11, 2012, 03:30:12 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 10, 2012, 08:45:29 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 10, 2012, 07:01:37 pm

Alright wsoxfan, yours was the vote that tipped Wrex into death. So, why was it without reason? You didn't state any reasoning, you just said I'm tie breaking. You are very scummy. And of course lurking. 6 posts up to page 12. You have barely any interaction with most people and most is answering questions not answering them.

My reasons for voting Wrex? First of all, I was not happy about being forced into that situation. I was not completely convinced that he was scum, and would have liked more time. However, I voted for him because I have heard numerous times(including once from Hapah on this thread) that a no-lynch on D1 is bad. Of the two who were on the chopping block, I found Wrex much scummier than you, and though I would have appreciated more time to feel around more, though no one asked for an extend-so I decided to forgo it as well. Also, if you look at my posts(which you clearly have since you have such exact numbers) you will see that I had several reasons there for finding him scummy. However, I am curious to see your though process, so while I do a more detailed reread, tell me who you think is scum.

Sox: You seemed pretty quick to vote for Wrex. You did not ask for an extension, and that's on you. Just because nobody else voiced a wish for it doesn't mean that you shouldn't--you just voted. 

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 10:38:29 pm

Don't worry. I have no issues with breaking a tie.

That's pretty scummy, friend. I think you may have just shown your true colors. Did you help Vodot make the decision for NK-ing Shake? I wonder how you two came to consider him?

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 15, 2012, 05:34:31 am

Wait. Wsoxfan, you are a Doctor?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 15, 2012, 05:58:47 am

Where did you get that assumption?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 15, 2012, 06:02:26 am

The whole' Kamin Knows my Role' thing.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 15, 2012, 06:30:16 am

I believe he means "Townie" but I'm not sure.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 15, 2012, 08:20:00 am

I'm an idiot. Herpalerpa Derp.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 15, 2012, 08:23:02 am

Don't get down on yourself mate, it happens to the best of us. Not me but the rest of the best.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 02:45:54 pm

Mod, please cattle prod Kamin. I want answers.
@Kingfisher, I have a question on post 184 that you haven't answered. Please solve that issue.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 03:46:59 pm

Dammit Kamin, I just saw your posts in the WTF moment thread. Post here. I know that you're active.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: webadict on September 15, 2012, 08:03:45 pm

So, am I gonna replace in, or what?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 09:43:53 pm

@all-lurk moar, noobz.
@vodot-where's the critical anaylsis you promised?
@Kamin-Do you need a replacement?
@King and Nerjin-is that it? Is they only this you guys will be doing debating what I meant with my post?
@Jim-You're supposed to be setting an example for us noobz. Post more dammit!
Seriously, I've made the only post with content for the past 2.5 days. That's not a good record.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2012, 09:48:59 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 15, 2012, 08:03:45 pm

So, am I gonna replace in, or what?

You didn't ask me! XD I've sent you a PM for clarification though.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 03:46:59 pm

Dammit Kamin, I just saw your posts in the WTF moment thread. Post here. I know that you're active.

He has some IRL problems currently in relation to posting, he has PM'd me about it (before the prod) so I'm giving him until tomorrow.

Jim also PM'd me that he'll be gone for a day so I'm expecting him back soon-ish enough.

The reason why BMs are not counting weekends in the day (IMO) is that most players have personal business to attend to during weekends like family time, personal pursuits and other things...

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 09:43:53 pm

[...]
@Jim-You're supposed to be setting an example for us noobz. Post more dammit!

So in the meantime, read up and fortify whichever case you have. You don't need someone to prod you into action, because you can do it yourself.  :)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2012, 10:12:33 pm

"Why did they just go out and kill the man. That's against all ethical probability!"

"Well, you did hear what Map said. There is a wizard...and it may be our leader."

"Why can't we vote him?"

"Because."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (1) - wsoxfan
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• markressler (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, , markressler

Between the hour of the Lion and the Boar.

((Day 2 will end at September 17, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

33 hours, 47 minutes and 46 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you refresh a lot or for the first time as it seems...))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 10:45:25 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on September 15, 2012, 09:48:59 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 15, 2012, 08:03:45 pm

So, am I gonna replace in, or what?

You didn't ask me! XD I've sent you a PM for clarification though.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 03:46:59 pm

Dammit Kamin, I just saw your posts in the WTF moment thread. Post here. I know that you're active.

He has some IRL problems currently in relation to posting, he has PM'd me about it (before the prod) so I'm giving him until tomorrow.

Jim also PM'd me that he'll be gone for a day so I'm expecting him back soon-ish enough.

The reason why BMs are not counting weekends in the day (IMO) is that most players have personal business to attend to during weekends like family time, personal pursuits and other things...

So in the meantime, read up and fortify whichever case you have. You don't need someone to prod you into action, because you can do it yourself.  :)
[/quote]
Oh. Redact the messages sent to Kamin and Jim then. My apologizes gentlemen. :-[
Also, I don't understand the last part of what you said.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2012, 10:50:25 pm

"Alright, time's up. Let's do this!"

"Hold it!"

"Wh- Sir Knight, you look...different."

"It's the juice. Perks up my spirits."

webadict has replaced markressler!

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (1) - wsoxfan
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• webadict (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, , webadict

Between the hour of the Lion and the Boar.

((Day 2 will end at September 17, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

33 hours, 10 minutes and 06 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you refresh a lot or for the first time as it seems...))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 15, 2012, 11:01:57 pm

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 15, 2012, 11:09:00 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 15, 2012, 11:01:57 pm

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

You're in the game.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 11:38:03 pm

alright, webadict-after you read through the thread, who are your top scumpicks? Would you justify the previous player's actions?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 12:30:26 am

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin

This is the exact sort of stuff I gave Kamin crap for. You can't lynch people with metaphor.

I also don't recall you expressing previous suspicion towards Kamin, which makes me think you voted him just because I railed on him. Color me suspect of your motives.

Also, why the unvote?

Quote from: Nerjin on September 15, 2012, 08:23:02 am

Don't get down on yourself mate, it happens to the best of us. Not me but the rest of the best.

Pfft, sure.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 14, 2012, 08:31:40 pm

I have said everything that I think needs said. When others post a bit more I will be more than happy to analyze their posts. You also left Mark off that list. I still think he's scum. Vote Mark 2012 Scum-Mayor award. Why do I think he's scum? See my previous entries on the matter.

I'm lazy. Humor me.

If your case is largely that he's lurking up an absentstorm, what do you make of him being completely absent from the forum as a whole since the 12th?

Quote from: webadict on September 15, 2012, 11:01:57 pm

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

Noobs being noobs, mostly.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 16, 2012, 08:23:29 am

@wsoxfan: Because Mark was a blank vote. He was lurking like all hell, and voting him Would do nothing.
I feel horrible right now. More questions coming.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 16, 2012, 10:27:30 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 12:30:26 am

-snip-

I'm lazy. Humor me.

If your case is largely that he's lurking up an absentstorm, what do you make of him being completely absent from the forum as a whole since the 12th?
[-snip]

Well I'll be honest. Since he lurked to Replacement-dom it does sort of weaken my case. I shall re-read the forum and check on who is what.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2012, 12:47:14 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 15, 2012, 11:38:03 pm

alright, webadict-after you read through the thread, who are your top scumpicks? Would you justify the previous player's actions?

Well, what I read was lurker lurker lurker.

So, lynch the lurkers.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 16, 2012, 04:08:32 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 12:30:26 am

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm

Unvote
Kamin, you accused me of showing my true colors. I now believe that you've been flashing them for a while, and I've just been too blind to notice. Kamin

This is the exact sort of stuff I gave Kamin crap for. You can't lynch people with metaphor.

I also don't recall you expressing previous suspicion towards Kamin, which makes me think you voted him just because I railed on him. Color me suspect of your motives.

Also, why the unvote?

First, I honestly wasn't looking too carefully at your post. This re-read was simply to re-analyze Kamin's posts, and if I couldn't find anything on him, I'd move onto the next person and find dirt on them. I was rereading because I wasn't completely convinced about Mark, hence the unvote(I voted him to hopefully force him to respond-it didn't work) So yes, but even if I was knowingly using your arguments, so what? If only one person could use a piece of evidence, then everyone would have a vote on them. The evidence on a player would have to overlap eventually. Also, the huge eye-opener was the fact that he was very, very confident in my role, which the only way you could know that would mean that he's scum.
webadict-Can you answer the question with more information? i.e., who are the lurkers, and do you have any other evidence to back it up once they come back online?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 16, 2012, 06:40:24 pm

Spoiler: Kamin 1 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Talk about a lot of questions! I'm just going to post these in order without quoting, since sifting through everything takes forever.

Kamin: What do you think the most scummy thing someone can do is?

Probably unjustified bandwagoning on the first day. I haven't seen it yet, but I DO think I've seen some signs of OMGUS, which is also pretty scummy.

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use it RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

Wrex, It's you, me and Kamin on Day 10. You're the last scum, and we're 75% certain it's you. What do you do? What do YOU do in the above scenario, Kamin?

25% chance of me being wrong? You can bet your ass I'd be going through all of your old posts and seeing if you appeared to throw anybody under the bus or participated in a deal of unjustified bandwagoning. Still, 75% is better than 25%, so after spending forever and a half sifting through responses, I'd most likely come to the same conclusion as before and lynch. Scrutiny is always important, though, especially if there's a lot of WiFoM--everybody is fallible.

kamin-if you were the doctor, how would you choose how to save a player?

What is the context? First night? Last night? The context would definitely change my criteria.

Kamin: It's 3-player LYLO, and you're a vanilla townie.  Both remaining players have claimed they're the doc.  Neither claim has any obvious holes in it.  How do you decide who to trust?

Solid question, but as my other LYLO question above, I'd go through ALL of the pertinent info. I'd crosscheck FoS, votes, and the like to see who is the most scummy. Just because there's not an OBVIOUS hole in a claim doesn't mean there aren't any.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Mark: What exactly would be "obvious" about somebody playing scum? You seem to know what scumminess entails, so please, regale me. Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Vodot: You seem pretty active, cast the first vote against Jim, and have also been "fingered," so I would like to ask you a question. If you were scum on the first day and were under suspicion, would you OMGUS, or would you do some combo of roleblock on the suspicious party and NK somebody else? (So many possibilities...)

Nerjin: You're pretty quick with that FoS... Is it the OMGUSFoS?

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

On Kamin's first post, he answers three questions and requests clarification on two others. 

To me, one of the more interesting parts of this post is where he says "unjustified bandwagoning" is scummy, and then becomes the first player to cast a second vote for someone.  He votes Mark, and does it without stating any explicit reason beyond quoting his semi-infamous line "I'm obvious when I'm scum".

In the paragraph where he votes Mark, he also recycles one of my exact criticisms of Mark:

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 12:26:39 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:02:23 am

All this questions make me feel like I'm less than a newbie, haha.

Just do your best, Mark... no lame Excuses.

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Mark...and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Also in his Mark paragraph, doesn't this sound at least a little bit like one scum player giving advice to another? At the very least, I would say that Kamin is pretty aware and concerned about how a Scum should defray suspicion:

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Please be more detailed than simply saying something like "OMGUS," and keep the "I feel like everybody's a newb except for me" to a minimum.

Finally, Kamin asks this very interesting question:

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag: I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Now, admittedly, this sounds similar to a question that I ask Jim later, but Kamin asks his from the opposite perspective.  I ask Jim what I should be looking for in noob scum that have been yelled at by an angry Dariush.  But Kamin asks the IC's what scumtells he (Kamin) and the other scum should avoid in order to minimize the amount of suspicious they cast his way.  Kamin's smart, and I think his was an interesting way of getting backhanded advice from the ICs about how to play scum.

Spoiler: Kamin 2 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:27:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Ka[r]min, if you had a oneshot kill but you had to use iat RIGHT NOW, who would it be?

I'm not sure, does this mean I'm the deciding factor in a lynch situation, or that I have a night kill, or what?

I misspelled your name, to my eternal shame. I would edit... but my concern for my nether-parts prevents me, out of fear of the aforementioned shovel. 

It's alright, I forgive you--shovels seem a bit too extreme for my nether-regions as well 

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

No, what I meant is, you PM the Mod, and he kills your target RIGHT NOW, no waiting.  BAM.  Now who would it be?

So to answer you, I'm going to take a few things into consideration. If I was scum, I imagine I'd probably pick an experienced player, whichever one (or two) wasn't on my side. This is because experienced players are death to scum. If I wasn't scum, I'd still be extremely worried about a scum IC. The problem is that there's not enough info right now and I'm completely in the dark, so if I had to pick right now, I'd stick with my current vote against Mark.

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.


PPE: Also...

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:07:14 pm

Allright. If you want to know why I haven't been answering questions, is that for the past tweleve hours I was trying to sleep, then having nightmares, then consumng as many caffinated beverages as possible so that when the crash hits I am so dead tired I can get some decent sleep.

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 01:49:10 pm

And now the witch-Hunt begins.

You were pretty awake when you posted that almost 2 hours ago, and trying to sleep for over 12 hours when you're not tired seems... Unnecessary. Why would you post while you were trying to sleep? 

Ok, this is one of my favorites, becuase it came so early and I think everyone just missed it in the flurry of posts.  Why in the world would Kamin voluntarily answer this question from the SCUM perspective?  I didn't even really read this answer until going through this thread for analysis, but this is just a complete slip.  It's glaring.  I wasn't looking or hinting that he answer this as scum at all, but he does... and he purposefully puts 'if I WAS scum' in italics, which tells me that he thought about that answer more than once.

I think it is interesting that an IC died the night after he said this, but the NK means nothing, so, eh.  Everyone knows that I'd be no great fan of playing against the ICs as scum, either.

The other part of this post that is just great to meis how nervous he is about appearing accusatory.  Look at him piggyback off of what I said about Wrex:

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:27:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 02:54:47 pm

Wrex, how about playing the game and answering/asking some questions to give the town information, instead of non-answering and voting for other people that are answering/asking questions to give the town information?

I can agree with this. I'm sorry if my first post was a wall of text because I had a million questions to answer, but at least I'm not lurking like you, Sox, and Jim. Just because I answered and asked questions doesn't make me more accusatory than anybody else. I'm not upset with Kingfisher because he asked me a question before anybody else, for instance. That's just how it goes. Asking questions is how we dig out scum. You should perhaps answer what questions are posed to you later and ask some questions of your own, because I'm starting to waver on my Mark vote.

Look at him backpedal!  Nobody has even accused him yet, but he's couching his bets; he apologizes for his WoT (uneccessarily, I think we all know who would win that contest here), he proactively starts asserting his anti-lurker-ness, he buddies a bit with king and reassures himself that he's not upset for being questioned. 

Why is he comparing himself so carefully to other players this early? Hm.

Spoiler: Kamin 3 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:41:46 pm

Quote from: Wrex on September 04, 2012, 03:32:24 pm

I was playing some DF to calm down, alright? It works wonders as a sleep aid. And I am very, very tired.


Now, Kamin, What would you do if someone -anyone, it dosen't matter who- Claimed cop on the first day?

[I'm really sorry if you're having trouble sleeping and all IRL, don't feel like I'm actually attacking you--it's all in good fun!]

A real cop would never do that on the first day. Probably scum. Vote to lynch.

Here he apologizes to wrex for badgering him.  "It's all in good fun!  I'm not really atacking you" Interesting. I know I'm coming across as a total hardass for the larger part of this game, butI would never let a player off the hook like this, especially so early on, especially over an excuse as easy as missing sleep.  And Kamin had him on the rails, here: He had basically caught Wrex in a blatant contradiction (posting when he said he was trying to sleep).  Why back off?  To quote Jim: "scared, cowardly scum, much?"

Spoiler: Kamin 4 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 04, 2012, 04:45:40 pm

But then, Kamin was the second person to vote Mark, and our first bandwagoner... and he did it as a response to pressure.
unvote.
Kamin, why were you the first to cast a second vote for someone?

I thought that was evident. You should go back next time before asking a question, but here, I'll be a good sport this time.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

That's why. "I'm obvious when I'm scum." Tell me that isn't the scummiest thing that's been said all game. How, then, was my vote a response to "pressure?" What "pressure" do you speak of? Vodot, I am quite aware of my vote being cast and the implication, but my vote was not unjustified, nor is it currently bandwagoning because Shakerag changed his vote. I have not. I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

This one is where the game really starts to turn for Kamin. After this post, he is going to halt his thus-far bland progress at investigating the town, and switch to going after me with a vengence. 

First, in response to my question, he gets pretty snarky.
"Here", he says, "I'll be a good sport THIS time".  But the reason he gives for voting Mark is barely a reason at all; and it certainly wasn't explicitly stated in his original post.  Why does Kamin get so defenseive about my having asked him this question?

As he fleshes out his reply, it just gets better: He starts getting defensive about the factthat he voted.  He's not trying to explain WHY he voted; he's obsessed with trying to prove to me that his voting ISNT SCUMMY.  But I don't care about that, I just wanted him to explain why he voted!

He goes as far to say, "look, Shake changed his vote from mark!  Now I'm not bandwagoning!"  But wha does that have to do with anything?  If you jump on a bandwagon, nobody cares if you're the last one on the bandwagon; the point is that you jumped on it.

I wasn't really even going to press him at all on this; I just expected a simple acknowledgement that he did, indeed, cast the first #2 vote for someone.

Finally, he says this:

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 05:10:42 pm

I declared unjustified bandwagoning to be superscum earlier, to boot... It'd be pretty hilarious if I started unjustified bandwagoning so soon after such a declaration. If you feel like voting against me, that's your prerogative. It's RVS, and I know what all of this hardassery intends to accomplish.

I think he says this because he's legitimately concerned about how this is looking; and I think it explains his (Lasting!) unwillingness to simply agree with me that he cast that vote for second vote for Mark.  And Kamin is NOT a fan of my hardassery: that much is going to become very apparent in his next several posts, where he starts going after me for wanting to lynch the ICs.

Spoiler: Mini-Kamin (click to show/hide)

Quote from: vodot on September 05, 2012, 12:38:01 pm

Kamin, you're voting mark.  What do you think of Mark and King's ongoing argument? Is it changing your mind?

Coincidentally, Kamin never answered this question.

Kamin 5-15 coming soon, as I have time.  Anyone want to guess the ending? :)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2012, 07:04:02 pm

Calm down, vodot. You don't need to unload a whole bunch of info at once. I think you'd do better not to comment on everything all at once. Instead, make short sweet points. It's easier to convince your audience (us) of your view if you're not overloading us with info.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 07:41:03 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 16, 2012, 06:40:24 pm

Wall o' text with promises of more to come!

Ugh, no. I am not reading that.

webadict's right in that you're not going to convince anybody with a flurry of information. Focus only on the strongest pieces of evidence you have and make your case digestible for your audience, which is the rest of us. The quicker and easier to process you make your point the easier time you'll have convincing everybody of it.

I get it, it's your first game, and you're really excited. But the magic of trying to prove that somebody's scum by looking at literally everything they have to say and dissecting it word by word wears off quickly.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 16, 2012, 07:46:44 pm

Does this make Web an IC?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 07:48:59 pm

He's experienced enough to be one, so you should listen to what he has to say.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 16, 2012, 09:31:31 pm

"You know, I'm pretty suspicious about that guy, over there. With the bushy mustache and the bent back?"

"He's not on trial."

"No, he's not..."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (1) - wsoxfan
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• webadict (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Jim Groovester, vodot, kingfisher1112, , webadict

Between the hour of the Boar and the Lynx.

((Day 2 will end at September 17, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

10 hours, 29 minutes and 13 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 16, 2012, 09:53:51 pm

There's not enough people voting-extend so people can get their votes in.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 16, 2012, 10:20:25 pm

Extend.
Alright, I havevreally got no idea who to vote.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 16, 2012, 10:31:12 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 16, 2012, 07:46:44 pm

Does this make Web an IC?

Considering I've been playing Mafia here longer than most of you have been members of the forum, I'd say probably. If you believe anything that lunatic says.

wsoxfan: I didn't bother looking back at anything lurkers have said, because lurkers don't say anything. So, lynching them is unfortunately better for all of our time right now then waiting for something to happen. Plus, it let's me see how you all are acting now, because I don't really have the want to go back and read further than I have to.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 11:39:35 pm

Extend.

Kamin, hurry up and answer me.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 16, 2012, 11:45:29 pm

Before anyone says anything-yes, Jim beat me to this arguement. However, that doesn't make it any less valid. Kamin, it's perfectly fine to not have enough time to post on this. However, if you're going to post on other threads after a long period of absence, the very least you can do is to let us know that information is coming. If you could find time to post on other threads, I'm sure you have time to give us a quick update.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 12:10:17 am

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 17, 2012, 12:33:36 am

"Extension accepted"

"So is that how we prolong this thing?"

"Nah, this is how we say: 'Hey Marshal, I don't like your sword' in a vague way."

"Shut it, he's right over there."

"My point exactly."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (0) -
• webadict (1) - Nerjin
• vodot (1) -  Kamin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:  vodot, webadict

Between the hour of the Boar and the Lynx.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Wednesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

55 hours, 29 minutes and 55 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

"The sun really hurts my ink..."

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:00:30 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 12:10:17 am

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Cool, I think somebody finally tripped up. Unvote

You never answered my question in post #190. Also, you completely ignored me when I prodded you to answer my question, when I tried to grab your attention in post #203. King... Nor did you refrain from bandwagoning when it seemed convenient. Jim voted me to get me to talk and pay attention--that's my guess. But you? You're just hopping on the Lynch Mobile. I think that's the most compelling thing that's happened all game. Aside from your nice ABC list. Vodot is actually doing something. It may be overkill, but it's still really active and he is working hard to make his case. That is respectable. What you are doing, King, is not. It's what I'd expect from your ilk. Oh, and what was this little gem?

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 15, 2012, 05:34:31 am

Wait. Wsoxfan, you are a Doctor?

Bahaha, seriously? Rolefishing, too? Even though I'll probably be lynched this round, I believe the rest of the town will remember this. You're done, King.


Let's see, time to answer questions.

@Jim: Did you actually ask me a question? I didn't see it before, and I don't see it now; all I've seen is you bashing me for my hyperbole. I didn't see any real questions in that. Please direct me to it and I will answer it.
@Sox: Did you ask me questions, too? I just saw that you voted for me after learning that Vodot had it out for me with his rather elaborate OMGUS. As I just asked Jim, please refer me to the question. I've been out for a while, so humor me. I actually did try to find the questions you guys want answered, but was unable to find them.
@Nerjin: Unless I missed it, you're pulling a King--you never answered my question. It's in the same post I referred him to above.

Not all is well on the Kamin life front, so I've been doing lighthearted fluffy bullshit on the forums and online (although I've been gone most of the weekend playing football; I'll admit I should have posted from my phone, but did not because I suck). As Mafia doesn't qualify as light and fluffy--as well as being super depressing and seemingly personal at times--I abstained from posting when I had the chance. Depression is a fickle mistress, my friends. You can choose to believe or not that some pretty serious shit has been happening with me. However, I think your wait hasn't gone unrewarded, what with ScumKing's new case and Mark getting replaced. Regardless of that, I give you all my apologies for holding up the game.

(Thank you for letting them know but without breaking confidentiality, Tiruin. I appreciate that a lot and am glad to know my trust hasn't been misplaced.)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:15:42 am

Finally, some action.
As you can see, I've incited the Kamin Hate Machine^TM. An OMGUS, admitting you're gonna get lynched, and only providing some bloody content when a player who nobody pays attention to votes you. You are now even trying to suck up to Vodot, and accusing me of Rolefishing EVEN AFTER I POSTED SOMETHING LITERALLY 5 MINUTES AFTERWARDS saying that I was confused about Sox's statement. Congrats, you've just taken the bait.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

Extend. 

I will attempt to condense my case against Kamin into a few key points.

1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

2. Later in the same post and often throughout the thread, Kamin becomes agitated and obsessed over proving that what he is doing is not scummy, rather than directly confronting logic he disagrees with or simply admitting when he is wrong.  This strikes me as convoluted play for town.  Instead of trying to "de-scummify" your image, why would you not instead spend more time asserting your townie-ness and telling town by using evidence and refuting bad reason?  But Kamin doesn't tell town, get frustrated, or attack logic; he just denies responsibility and compares himself to other scummy players, saying "look!  I'm not half as scummy as they are!" Posts where he does this: 65, 73, 168, 

3. In post 129, Kamin begins what is going to be a thread-long attack against me for two of my behaviors:
- Being a hardass and strongly pressuring every other player
- My special suspicion and distrust of the ICs

He never offers a lot of substance to show how either of these two charges are scummy, and eventually he is just going to repeat them no mater how often I explain these behaviors to him and to others that found these behaviors uncomfortable. Even when I directly demand that  he deliver evidence, he trots out a repeated line about how there is no evidence in Mafia, and how things are based on feelings, which is just wrong; and it should be especially easy for him to find something in my case given my large amount of exposure here.

4. Finally, Kamin has displayed a lack of willingness to actually engage the town with real information and play.  In post 131, I pressure him to explain why he second-voted mark.  All i wanted was for him to admit that he indeed cast a second vote on Mark; Kamin never answers.  In post 151, Kamin says he 'likes my answers'; but He says it still just really seems like I do want to lynch the ICs, telling me it seems I'm on a "witch hunt" (....yes?) and that I "look guiltier" than Mark.  I demand evidence.  No Evidence. In 172, Kamin nonchalantly asks about an extension when he knows the town is facing no-lynch; and in post 190, Kamin spends more time writing flavor text than he does actually going after me with real evidence or responding to my self-defense, lamely misdirecting the town to an "evidence" thread completely devoid of any.

For these reasons and more, I say we lynch Kamin; I think his play has been one dimensional and non-town, his lack of engagement is non-town, and his method of self-defense is definitely non-town.
 

PPE: I see nothing in his latest thread that changes my current opinion, but I am more than open to hear you explanations of these four points, Kamin.

IC's, I would like to hear come cold-blooded analysis on this Kamin/King situation during our extension.  This isn't MYLO, so my though is that it is perfectly safe to mislynch here and then reanalyze after the flip.  Yes?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:32:01 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:15:42 am

Finally, some action.
As you can see, I've incited the Kamin Hate Machine^TM. An OMGUS, admitting you're gonna get lynched, and only providing some bloody content when a player who nobody pays attention to votes you. You are now even trying to suck up to Vodot, and accusing me of Rolefishing EVEN AFTER I POSTED SOMETHING LITERALLY 5 MINUTES AFTERWARDS saying that I was confused about Sox's statement. Congrats, you've just taken the bait.

You're really very naive if you actually believe that what you said just now exonerated you in the slightest. You're clutching at straws, King, and I'm pretty sure everybody will see that. If I get lynched, I get lynched. Until that time, I will do my best to play how I think is right--and I am convinced you're scum. Is that everybody else's opinion? Maybe not yet. But I think they'll see it, even if it takes me getting lynched first to prove it.


Riding off of everybody else's work and accusations makes your shit look mighty weak. Oh, and I'm pretty sure posting "Whoops" five minutes after you post something incriminating isn't a very good defense, but maybe I'm wrong. And honestly? If I wanted to be spiteful, I'd just keep voting for Vodot; he's got a good case coming along. If me respecting the time he is putting into this game is sucking up, then fine, Have it Your Way BK! Maybe try putting together a better response next time--I think you responded too quickly to me this time to do so. (And your alacrity at posting a defense wasn't suspect at all!)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 17, 2012, 01:41:56 am

@kamin-last post on page 15.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:45:56 am

You are the one clutching at straws. ' THEY'LL ALL SEE AFTER I GET LYNCHED' is not a Defence, and neither is ' YOU ARE GOING DOWN AFTER I GET LYNCHED'. Your feeble attempts at intimidation are not working. I'm all the more convinced you're desperate scum. Kamin, it's time for you to hang.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 03:28:31 am

Unvote for now.Extend need more time for my re-read.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 17, 2012, 03:41:08 am

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:00:30 am

You never answered my question in post #190. Also, you completely ignored me when I prodded you to answer my question, when I tried to grab your attention in post #203. King... Nor did you refrain from bandwagoning when it seemed convenient. Jim voted me to get me to talk and pay attention--that's my guess. But you? You're just hopping on the Lynch Mobile. I think that's the most compelling thing that's happened all game. Aside from your nice ABC list. Vodot is actually doing something. It may be overkill, but it's still really active and he is working hard to make his case. That is respectable. What you are doing, King, is not. It's what I'd expect from your ilk. Oh, and what was this little gem?

That's quite a departure from your previous position concerning vodot. Which I will note was outlined in your post previous to this one.

Why the new attitude?

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:00:30 am

@Jim: Did you actually ask me a question? I didn't see it before, and I don't see it now; all I've seen is you bashing me for my hyperbole. I didn't see any real questions in that. Please direct me to it and I will answer it.

Yeah, I wanted you to provide evidence and justification for your weak-ass case on vodot.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 12:10:17 am

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Blatant bandwagon is blatant.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:15:42 am

Congrats, you've just taken the bait.

What bait?

You bandwagoning is bait to provoke a reaction out of Kamin? Sure, you'll get one, but you won't look good coming out of it.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

I will attempt to condense my case against Kamin into a few key points.

Excellent.

It's places like these where including links to the relevant posts would be useful.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

IC's, I would like to hear come cold-blooded analysis on this Kamin/King situation during our extension.  This isn't MYLO, so my though is that it is perfectly safe to mislynch here and then reanalyze after the flip.  Yes?

That's what would happen if there was a mislynch.

But, you know, that's not something you really want to be striving for. Nailing scum before lylo makes life lots easier. And you don't really want to settle for a mislynch if you can help it, i.e., each lynch should be your best guess for who is scum.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

He answered as scum first? Seriously?

Let's say he answered from the town perspective first. What would you say then?

He gave both alignments fair consideration, so you're going to give him crap for the order he answered them with?

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:32:01 am

You're really very naive if you actually believe that what you said just now exonerated you in the slightest. You're clutching at straws, King, and I'm pretty sure everybody will see that. If I get lynched, I get lynched. Until that time, I will do my best to play how I think is right--and I am convinced you're scum. Is that everybody else's opinion? Maybe not yet. But I think they'll see it, even if it takes me getting lynched first to prove it.

Less hyperbolic speechifying, more casemaking.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:45:56 am

You are the one clutching at straws. ' THEY'LL ALL SEE AFTER I GET LYNCHED' is not a Defence, and neither is ' YOU ARE GOING DOWN AFTER I GET LYNCHED'. Your feeble attempts at intimidation are not working. I'm all the more convinced you're desperate scum. Kamin, it's time for you to hang.

Less hyperbolic speechifying, more casemaking.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2012, 08:06:52 am

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

I will attempt to condense my case against Kamin into a few key points.

I like you. You're probably town. That makes this easier.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

In fact, there's nothing scummy about the first part of this. However, saying "If I wasn't scum" actually IS scummy. Instead, I'd say "If I were town" or "If I were scum".

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

3. In post 129, Kamin begins what is going to be a thread-long attack against me for two of my behaviors:
- Being a hardass and strongly pressuring every other player
- My special suspicion and distrust of the ICs

Ironic, actually, considering this:

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 03:27:53 pm

If I wasn't scum, I'd still be extremely worried about a scum IC.

As for the first point, not scummy. Second point is though.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

IC's, I would like to hear come cold-blooded analysis on this Kamin/King situation during our extension.  This isn't MYLO, so my though is that it is perfectly safe to mislynch here and then reanalyze after the flip.  Yes?

What about it?

If you want my opinion, I see king as bandwagoning. His reasons suck, and he's just posting to post. I'd even go so far as to say bussing, if not for Nerjin and wsoxfan needing to post more. All in all, not good.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 09:08:24 am

Bussing? And you also say I am bandwagoning. Yet you do not vote...

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:55 am

Alright, rail on my reasons all you want. They may be crap. But when Kamin's Defence is ' King Has Crap Reasons' then it goes downhill.
In post #190,  OMGUS. Your reasoning? Calling you out on voting mark. In addition, you are very adamant in continuing to beat on Vodot, despite everyone being suspicious in your books. Where is this Vodot suspicion?
In post #203, you talk down to Vodot, and beat on him and sox a bit more. And continually, I notice the ' HE WANTS TO LYNCH ICS LYNCH HIM' Argument.
Post #207 Hypocrisy
Really, I'm seeing a pattern. Vodot is dangerous to scum. Scum would probably want hm Dead. Now, I have left myself open to attack. Be careful, Kamin. You won't be lynching me too easily. Why not refer to Vodot and try to wagon him again?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 17, 2012, 11:04:18 am

Quote from: webadict on September 17, 2012, 08:06:52 am

I'd even go so far as to say bussing, if not for Nerjin and wsoxfan needing to post more. All in all, not good.

Huh? I'm sorry, but I don't understand this part. Why is the fact that me and Nerjin aren't posting more indicitive that King's not bussing? I'm very confused.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Shakerag on September 17, 2012, 11:17:15 am

Quote from: webadict on September 15, 2012, 11:01:57 pm

So, what'd I miss? Other than the lurking.

[Why hello there, little boy.  Have you ever been in a cockpit before?]

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 16, 2012, 07:48:59 pm

He's experienced enough to be one, so you should listen to what he has to say.

[Yeah, but he's not King of the Mafia anymore, so he's clearly past his prime.]

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:00:30 am

Not all is well on the Kamin life front[...]

[...]seemingly personal at times[...]

[1 - Shit happens.  We know, and we understand.  A brief heads-up is all that's required.
2 - It shouldn't be.  Yes, we can be raging assholes in game, but we try to leave that at the door, so to speak.]

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

I will attempt to condense my case against Kamin into a few key points.

[Thank god.]

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:55 am

Post #207 Hypocrisy

[I don't like repeating myself, kingfisher.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2012, 11:29:39 am

Pfp.

@king: I do not need to vote to point out either bandwagoning or bussing. However, I am at an impasse as to whether I should vote you or Kamen. Also, I had simply forgotten to.

@wsoxfab: One cannot bus someone that is not his partner.

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Shakerag on September 17, 2012, 11:34:15 am

Quote from: webadict on September 17, 2012, 11:29:39 am

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

[I know; I'm teasing you, old man.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 1, Judgement in the Archaic Fane - Replacement needed!
Post by: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 02:31:40 pm

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 11:25:05 am

-snip-
Any town role. I'm obvious when I'm scum.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:52:41 pm

@Kamin Um, what? I tried to say that I fell newbier than you, not less newbie than you, sorry if I was misunderstood. King said 'OMGUS' and yet you are only questioning me. I'm used to face to face mafia, and in my own language. Because of my sometimes rusty english, is easy to spot me when I'm scum. I think that you are being a little evil with me, maybe it has a reason. Luckily, we are in the RVS, so I will vote you now. Kamin.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 03:58:36 pm

((Excuse my lack of questions, I'm quite busy irl right now))

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:15:04 pm

@Kamin, I've already said why I said that: I'm not a native english-speaker, sometimes I find it difficult to defend myself. What I've meant to say it's that I always look scummy for everybody, because I don't come up with the right words.

Is this the first time you play a game of forum mafia? I'm just curious.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 05:42:36 pm

Well, I'm fingering Kamin, but it's a counter-vote most of all. Won't last long there.

Quote from: markressler on September 04, 2012, 06:10:20 pm

@vodot, yes, I do feel vulnerable. But now I'm trying my best to not look like that and actually do something.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 09:57:32 am

I have school, too. And sleep. And things like that, and I'm even asking more questions than you, despite it being 'reactionary', as you claim.

Quote from: markressler on September 05, 2012, 01:22:00 pm

You're really convinced I'm scum, don't you? You are seeking for 'evilness' where's nowhere to be found. I understand, I'm a suspect, you are a suspect, everybody is. But I think you are wasting your time with me, if those are your reasons to vote me. You saw my vulnerability and now you are trying to take advantage of it. I'm not saying this because it's me the one being voted, I'd think this if you were doing it to anybody else. It's easy to scum pick on the once-more vulnerable townie.

Nerjin, it's D1, you are scum. You saw how a townie started to dig his tomb and, once he noticed that, tried to fix it. Won't you try to get him lynched because of his first mistakes?

 

So Webaddict, mind justifying why your predessecor may have OMGUS’ed it up? Why he constantly played the sympathy card instead of answering questions in a satisfactory manner? Made excuses like crazy? Why haven’t you tried to even half-ass an explanation? Maybe you could explain why he tried to make me look like a scum for picking up on scum-tells? Maybe it’s because we’re supposed to forget about that just because he's replaced out? Well I haven’t. I’m still sure you two [one?] are scum. Convince me otherwise though if you would.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2012, 05:15:37 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 02:31:40 pm

1) So Webaddict, mind justifying why your predessecor may have OMGUS’ed it up?

2) Why he constantly played the sympathy card instead of answering questions in a satisfactory manner? Made excuses like crazy?

3) Why haven’t you tried to even half-ass an explanation?

4) Maybe you could explain why he tried to make me look like a scum for picking up on scum-tells? Maybe it’s because we’re supposed to forget about that just because he's replaced out?

Well I haven’t. I’m still sure you two [one?] are scum. Convince me otherwise though if you would.

Sorry man, I had to break that up. I literally cannot read it when it's bunched together.

First, I'd like to point out that my name is webadict. No capital W. No double Ds. The capital is less annoying than the double d thing.
Second, I'm not my predecessor, so everything I'm going to say is all guessing. Guessing you probably could've done yourself.
Third, even if I do guess correctly, you could simply say I'm wrong and vote me anyway with no real counter other than that.
But, let's try anyway.

1) I'm not sure where the OMGUS vote is because I literally have 0 cares about what my predecessor said. If you refer to the vote in the second post of yours, then you're taking a RVS vote and trying to underpin some sort of malicious intention to it, instead of a beginner's folly where they believe they are me and therefore don't do anything correct.
2) The fact that I'm here right now pretty much means he had legitimate excuses. Because, seriously, I replaced him. Because he was busy. You don't really lie about that.
3) Can't understand what explanations I'd have to give here, so I'll need you to reiterate what, exactly, I'm explaining. If you mean about his behavior, it's because I didn't read anything he posted.
4) People do not replace out to avoid scrutiny. That's both morally reprehensible and incredibly stupid. People seek replacement because of other duties. I also have no idea what scumtells you were picking up on because you seem to think I have the ability to read your mind as to your argument. Again, this problem is fairly common, but I lack telepathy, so providing a further explained argument would be nice.

I mean, you didn't have to unvote me, either, just because I replaced in, especially seeing as how you were planning to continue a case against me for things I never did. So, really, make up your mind. Am I responsible for his behavior or not?

Also, because I forgot to earlier, Kamen.

Quote from: Shakerag on September 17, 2012, 11:34:15 am

Quote from: webadict on September 17, 2012, 11:29:39 am

@shakerag: I gave up the title as per tradition. Not because I don't deserve it. Leafsnail is currently in charge of giving the title away.

[I know; I'm teasing you, old man.]

Toaster's older than I am! Geez!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:23:45 pm

1) Sorry about it all being bunched up I'll try to avoid that in the future.

2) I don't know about illegitimate excuse. I'm still suspicious of his actions but since a big part of my vote was how much he lurked.

3)But since everyone caught a case of lurkititus I had to rescend it. Now that he's replaced out most of the "I'm a poor little child." thing goes away. That's why I unvoted.

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

P.S. Sorry about the mispelling.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2012, 05:30:55 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:23:45 pm

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:18 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 17, 2012, 05:30:55 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:23:45 pm

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

You may know you're scum but we don't. Surely you would at least look through what he did to be able to deal with any heavy contradictions if any come up.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

@ All: Please actually take your time to read this, as I've taken some time to answer outstanding questions since my hiatus.

@ Sox:

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 09:09:53 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 09:31:21 pm

If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else  :P

Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] ::).(post in question shown below.

It's a statement. I wasn't sure if I'd be lynched or NK'ed, and you wouldn't know either unless you were scum. As far as your role is concerned, I couldn't possibly know your role unless I was a cop. There's no other possible way to know it without you being lynched. You could be a doctor for all I know (which King seemed to be trying to guess at), and I still couldn't know. So again, I think your argument/evidence lacks basis.

Thank you for being patient and referring me to your questions.

@ Jim：
Given that I had to go off of evidence primarily from Day 1, I felt that Vodot truly kept condemning himself. He attacked everybody with vitriol and gusto, and it seemed quite un-town to proceed in such a manner. He also seemed extremely paranoid about you ICs, which actually led me to think that neither you nor Shake were scum. As it turns out, Shake was not scum, and also happened to get NKed. If that's not damning, I'm not sure what is.

Now, to be completely honest (given the information I provided), I still think Vodot is scum. But King puts Vodot to shame if he is. See, for instance, the progression of the bandwagon--

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 16, 2012, 10:20:25 pm

Extend.
Alright, I havevreally got no idea who to vote.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 12:10:17 am

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Not only was this sloppy, but King posted his vote less than two hours after he really had "no idea who to vote." And this, of course, came shortly after you voted for me and Sox prodded me. Not to mention yesterday, when King posted a really, truly awful "defense" within 15 minutes of my voting him. King is lurking. And not just a little bit.

More than just this, Vodot actually dredged up a hell of a lot of very pertinent info. I respect that, and although Vodot has attacked others more than I think he's defended himself, he still has contributed a million times more than King. I've been waiting for something substantive from him, but it's never come.


@Vodot: You have a very nice case. I can see you put a lot of time into it, so I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away. I still respect what you've done, regardless. If, however, there are questions you'd like to ask me, I'd be willing to answer them. Just keep in mind that everybody makes mistakes, be it town or scum, and this is both of our first game. I've been trying to find my own personal style of playing, so I've probably seemed all over the place... Nice and cordial to finger-pointing asshole, which I readily admit is completely contradictory and sloppy. I don't think it's inherently scummy so much as n00bish and stupid. I've yet to find a balance with play, but I'm trying. I know you've been grappling with the same problem of personal style balance just as I have, which is probably pretty normal this early in our respective Mafia careers. Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular I can answer, and I will do my best to do so.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:29 pm

You once again accuse me of lurking. I have mentioned on multiple occasions that I am in a completely different time zone. And it sucks because all of you get on at about midnight here, when I'm asleep.
And again, the defence ' His Defence is crap' doesn't work.
Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 17, 2012, 08:16:39 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

...I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away.

Nah, I like you after all, Kamin. Like Nerjin before you, I think you just finally told town under extreme pressure; it just took you a little longer. Actually, it's me who doesn't want to waste my time, reading your responses to my points. This attitude reversal was enough for me, for now. Unvote.

Well, now I'm really interested in this game again.

Oh ick, King, what is this garbage?

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:29 pm

Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

I don't get that impression at all- This isn't "more of the same" from Kamin; this was a complete reversal of attitude. To me, he just sounds like honest and embarassed Town that hasn't been playing as well or consistently as he would've liked.  But You aren't contributing anything new with your post at all, and I think you're being nasty just to be nasty. What good is your nastiness doing right now? He's on the block, the case has been made.  He either is or he isn't, based on reason and evidence alone.  Insulting someone in such a weak and exposed position is a sign of meanness and of your lack of concern that we lynch the CORRECT player tonight. 

And don't think I can't recognize your quote as a thinly veiled assertion and plea about what will or won't change my mind.

Now explain the bandwagon, King.

And I'd do it fast, you mean, suspicious, lurking, increasingly desperate SCUM.

[IC's: I would appreciate a no-nonsense read on the authenticity of Kamin's Noob Lament (TM!).

Also, is there an established and previously analzed point in BM where we noobs first start clumsily changing the font size for effect? If not, I'd like to register a trademark on 'Noob-sizing', or some other attractively ironic or punny term for this.  Does it work occasionally, or is it merely obnoxious?]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 17, 2012, 08:48:05 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

@ Sox:

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 14, 2012, 11:04:09 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 04, 2012, 01:59:14 pm

Jim and Shakerag:I have to believe that the Scum has at least one experienced player, so I just want to ask you two one question. If you were town, what would your number one scumtell be?

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 01:24:57 pm

Now, I must admit that you've been pretty good with your responses, Vodot. However, I'm still not satisfied with them--it really does seem like you want to get rid of the ICs for being ICs. Am I saying I don't see them as possible scum? Not at all. It just almost seems to me that you're going on a witch hunt for them. This is all fine and well, but it just makes me think you've got something to hide from them, and that you're worried about them finding out. I think you look even guiltier than Mark at this point. Vodot

I bolded the parts that stuck out to me. What changed your thinking? In one of your first posts, you suggested that either Shake or Jim would be scum. Then you reversed this position when vodot was asking the IC's questions about what they'd do if they were scum-essentially showing the same thinking as you. So why'd you change this? Was it for the convience of what appeared to be an easy vote- because the IC's were blasting him for his statements, right? However, the more I look at this post, the more red flags I'm seeing.

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

In all honesty, that's not the big scumtell that I had on you. I found it odd that your opinion changed that fast, but that wasn't the big scum tell that I found on you. The next one that you addressed is.

Quote

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 06, 2012, 09:09:53 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 06, 2012, 09:31:21 pm

If we're both lucky enough not to be lynched or NKed before next RVS, I'll make certain to grill you as much as I grill everybody else  :P

Bold added by me for emphasis.

So, if I may ask, why did you add the the first part of the last sentence? That seems to be a pretty strong indication that you know my role... as the cop is not you, there is only one way to know my role at this point. And that is to be scum. In other funny news, your next interaction with me calls me scum. Why? Did I slip and give away my role? No, I expressed I had no issue tie-breaking. Clearly that's enough evidence to accuse me of being in a scum team[/sarcasm] ::).(post in question shown below.

It's a statement. I wasn't sure if I'd be lynched or NK'ed, and you wouldn't know either unless you were scum. As far as your role is concerned, I couldn't possibly know your role unless I was a cop. There's no other possible way to know it without you being lynched. You could be a doctor for all I know (which King seemed to be trying to guess at), and I still couldn't know. So again, I think your argument/evidence lacks basis.

This is the big scumtell that I found on you. I personally think that this statement is just damage control for a scum slip up. I have a very good idea on your role as well Kamin, and I am very sure that you are scum. I actually should clarify on this a little bit, what I mean is that you must know my towniness/scuminess very well in order to 'hope' that I won't be NK'd.

Quote

Thank you for being patient and referring me to your questions.[/i]

No problem. :D I understand that RL can be a bitch at times.
@Kingfisher-I won't jump on the bandwagon like you did to Kamin, but tell me, why did you vote Kamin without providing any evidence beyond what me, jim and vodot did? You could have at least provided some examples of this.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 17, 2012, 10:32:45 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:18 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 17, 2012, 05:30:55 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 17, 2012, 05:23:45 pm

4) I just wanted to see what you thought of your predecessor's behavior but it appears you don't care at all.

Of course not. I already know I'm not scum.

You may know you're scum but we don't. Surely you would at least look through what he did to be able to deal with any heavy contradictions if any come up.

... Why? Again, I can only guess what he's thinking. And it tells me jack about who's scum. Or is this Cover My Tracks: The Game?

Why do I care about a contradiction my predecessor did? Am I supposed to avoid HIS contradictions? No. I'm not. Because that makes about the same amount of sense as a balloon made of rocks.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 07:00:29 pm

You once again accuse me of lurking. I have mentioned on multiple occasions that I am in a completely different time zone. And it sucks because all of you get on at about midnight here, when I'm asleep.
And again, the defence ' His Defence is crap' doesn't work.
Also, suck up more to Vodot. It won't do anything, just entertain me at your futile, failing attempts at trying to get his vote on your side.

Wow. That's kinda rude. Kamin's actually trying now, but I feel your vote is just as terrible as his was. What makes you think that you're NOT going to get lynched? What have you done to stop it, kingfisher1112?

Because people aren't here to entertain you, and if you think taunting's going to work out for you, then you're going to be disappointed. Your case is poor, and you're not nearly trying as hard as Kamin is, even if his case on vodot is terrible.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2012, 12:09:52 am

"What's the deal with you knights and swords?"

"Poke, poke. Stab, stab."

"Why not swish-swish?"

"We aren't that crude."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (3) - Kamin, vodot, webadict
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Nerjin

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Wednesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

31 hours, 51 minutes and 32 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 2
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

Alright. Think about it like this. And I apologise for the nastiness. Im sorry, and it shouldn't have slipped in there. It was pretty rude.
Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.
Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P #168 nothing special.
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.
P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?
P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

@Everybody: Lurking implies that I'm there, and I'm just sitting back. I'm Australian. Geez.
Also, @Vodot:
EXPLAIN THE FONT SIZE AND SUDDEN CHANGE OF HEART
And a complete reversal from riding you too hard to completely sucking up is a scum tell. He desperately wants your vote on his side.

@Wsoxfan I really should have done that.
@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 18, 2012, 08:21:19 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

Oh, I don't disagree. But it got what it needed - it got you to start making a case. But how you managed to come to vodot is beyond me. Like, vodot is pretty much confirmed town to me, so you're going to have to make a really big effort to convince me. I don't have much time, but I will comment a bit when I get back.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 09:32:53 am

Vodot and Kamin seem to have gone from ' I HATE YOU ' To ' I LOVE YOU '. It is just way too schizophrenic.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 18, 2012, 03:19:34 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112, (Font Size Reduced to protect the innocent) on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

EXPLAIN THE FONT SIZE AND SUDDEN CHANGE OF HEART

Nah, I did both already (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3619072#msg3619072).

My "Change of Heart" would make a lot more sense to you if you were town, King.  I'm not on a crusade.  And I don't care if anyone else is. I rage for a reason: to expose scum.  He changed his attitude, engaged the town, and responded.  Why press him further if I now think he's telling town in a big way?  If the whole purpose of my anti-Kamin "four points" post ends up just being to wheel out the bandwagon for you to scummily pounce on, I'm actually ok with that. 

I still believe what I said about Kamin, but he explained more to me with his change of attitude than he probably would've if he had tried to refute my four points.  You attitude, though, is pretty much the same... and you're walking down a familiar road with this "look at that scummier guy over there (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3619882#msg3619882)!" post.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 07:01:27 pm

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 18, 2012, 07:44:06 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 07:01:27 pm

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

Okay. I'm gonna have to cut you off here.

See, you're literally doing the same thing you're accusing Kamin of doing. Not only that, but you're trying to dodge your lynch by pushing everyone's attention away from you. Like, that's a really dumb move.

Not only that, but you not only just used the worst statistics I've ever seen, but you got them wrong even with your wrong stats! You're saying that town is something we want? Or is it power role? Or is it scum? Not sure, but only 1 of those 3 are apparently what we want. The other 2 are bad...? No, not only that though, but it's not even a 66% chance Kamin is something we don't want. That statistic proves nothing. That's like me voting you saying I have a 2 in 6 shot of being right, except for the technicality where I'd actually be correct for the wrong reasons.

But, I've got some time. Here we go:

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.
Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.
P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?
P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

So... let me get this straight...

Vodot is scum.
Kamin is scum.
Jim is scum.
webadict is scum.

4 man scumteam? Or am I misconstruing what exactly you're blaming everyone for. All I can tell is that you're attacking anyone that doesn't agree with you. Also, that everyone's case is terrible. Yet, I've found nothing in your case that vodot should be lynched, which is ironic considering that you're pretty sure he's scum.

Except, I've got a better theory.

You don't believe vodot is scum. If you did, you would have voted him. Instead, you believe that continuing to vote Kamin will save your life, considering that he and you are tied. At this point, your only real hope of living is to prove that Kamin is scum, which is why you've suddenly jumped toward him, and you've gone about doing exactly what you're blaming him of doing.

I've pretty much solidified the opinion that vodot is unlynchable. This is undeniable given Kamin's attempts plus the lack of other voters for him. That means jumping on him won't let you live.

So, why not webadict? He's a pretty easy target. You're actually testing the waters by pointing out scummy things he does, yet don't pursue in vain, as going after me loses the tie that's barely saving your neck, and you've got no real support, except for your partner.

So, you've decided to throw Kamin under the bus. Kamin, however, isn't your scumbuddy. That'd be too simplistic. Jim is a possibility, but he'd be far more eager to play if that were the case. vodot is town, simple as that. That leaves two left: wsoxfan and Nerjin. While I'd certainly love to save it's wsoxfan, the far likelier scumbuddy is Nerjin, as King as pretty much left him to be. Lurking, of course, is not good. And he hasn't bothered to try to get Nerjin's attention. I mean, the guy he should be reaching out to that hasn't voted? Man, that'd be a pretty good guy to try to get to vote, wouldn't it?

Except, scum aren't that willing to help their buddies. It brings too much attention. Therefore, the scum are kingfish1112 and Nerjin.

And that's what I think.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 18, 2012, 08:08:47 pm

Well… Now I feel bad for not scum-hunting as hard as I should be. However with others doing the work [sorry guys next day I will try to do a bit more than re-iterated arguments] I’ll say my theories:
 

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 01:00:30 am

You never answered my question in post #190. Also, you completely ignored me when I prodded you to answer my question, when I tried to grab your attention in post #203. King... Nor did you refrain from bandwagoning when it seemed convenient. Jim voted me to get me to talk and pay attention--that's my guess. But you? You're just hopping on the Lynch Mobile. I think that's the most compelling thing that's happened all game. Aside from your nice ABC list. Vodot is actually doing something. It may be overkill, but it's still really active and he is working hard to make his case. That is respectable. What you are doing, King, is not. It's what I'd expect from your ilk. Oh, and what was this little gem?

So why have you so suddenly switched attitudes again? I can understand respect but I don’t believe you answered his post. Why aren’t you trying to convince us you’re not scum?

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 12:10:17 am

Kamin.
Your constant
A) Accusing people of 'Witchunting'
B) Pointless Arguments
And C) General tying to appear town in The worst ways possible
Has earned you a vote.

Band-wagoning right? Mafia is a witch-hunt so accusing people of it is redundant but not much of a scum-tell. Unless I’m mistaken as what you meant. However C caught my attention more than the other two. What does trying to look town have to do with being scum? You seem to be trying awfully hard to do it yourself. Is Kamin acting towny to save his life? Are you? Maybe expand on those points a bit.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:15:42 am

Congrats, you've just taken the bait.

As Jim has asked: What Bait? I saw no bait?...

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

IC's, I would like to hear come cold-blooded analysis on this Kamin/King situation during our extension.  This isn't MYLO, so my though is that it is perfectly safe to mislynch here and then reanalyze after the flip.  Yes?

Safe yes. Approved? No. Why would you be so okay with a mislynch? A mislynch should never be acceptable. You should go after who you are SURE is scum. Being so laissez-faire about it strikes an odd tone for a town to take.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 01:25:23 am

1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

That seems like you’re clutching at straws my friend. Just because he gave both sides and answered from both doesn’t mean anything other than that he answered from both perpectives Gonna need more than that to convince me.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 01:45:56 am

You are the one clutching at straws. ' THEY'LL ALL SEE AFTER I GET LYNCHED' is not a Defence, and neither is ' YOU ARE GOING DOWN AFTER I GET LYNCHED'. Your feeble attempts at intimidation are not working. I'm all the more convinced you're desperate scum. Kamin, it's time for you to hang.

You respond to a feeble defense with a feeble attack. You’re scum because you are scum

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

Alright. Think about it like this. And I apologise for the nastiness. Im sorry, and it shouldn't have slipped in there. It was pretty rude.
Post #129, the one Kamin Crusade begins on Vodot. In this post, he is Thinking scum hunting is a scum tell, and trying to start a wagon.

He was referring to rapid voting I think. Vodot had, at that point, switched votes and then voted me for “dogpiling” when there was a dogpile of one [only myself]. It was a weak attack, one that an inexperienced scum would make.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

Post #151 Begins the ' Vodot hates IC's campaign.
P #155 Slips In a few little ' I'm town don't lynch me guize' beacons. I've seen him do this a few times. Do you think adding in a thing seemingly taunting the scum really increases your authenticity? Really?
P #168 nothing special.
P#170 This is... A strange post. Another little beacon of fake towniness. Saying ' I HOPE I DON'T GET NKED' *Wink* Is pretty scummy.

He was being friendly… I think. I honestly don’t see how #170 was overly scummy.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

P#190 The crusade continues. I am starting to see perhaps an eleborate ploy by the scumteam of Kamin/Vodot. Infact,Vodot, why the sudden change in heart to the person who has had it in for you the entire game?

So they argued and drew attention to each-other through-out the entire game with the goal of teaming up at the last minute? That seems unlikely at best. I think you’re making things up with this one.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

P#203 The insults fly, weakly attacking Vodot's Defence by trying to make it go away.
P#207 Only now when he says he's seeing about your posts, you decide to call him out on his 'OMGUS'.
P#260 The tide turns, and Kamin shuts the hell up. Then, he sees my vote and goes ' Easy Pickings' Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

#260 was a pressure vote. Jim wasn’t building a case he wanted an answer…

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

@ Webadict: That is a shameless bandwagon jump there. Your case is more crap than mine. I am trying. I am trying as hard as I bloody can to prove my case.

You know it seems to me that you’re trying very hard to prove that the only other person with votes is scum. You look like a scum trying only to save their own life with some arguments King. Like the following:

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 07:01:27 pm

So. You think it is not a scum tell for some dude to have a murderboner for lynching you the entire game and when he is on the block turning round and saying 'Hey bro don't lynch me bro that dude over there lynch him bro' That is a sign of
A) Desperate Scum
B) Bad Desperate Town
C) Desperate Power Role
66% chance Kamin is someone we do not want.

People change their minds. More evidence comes to surface. Like the above. Just what are you saying? There’s a 1/3 chance that Kamin is scum so you vote him? You literally refute some of your arguments when you mathematically prove [which doesn’t prove anything in Mafia] that Kamin is most likely not scum. I don’t get your point here unless it was just to throw out numbers and hope that confuses us enough to switch sides.


All of this plus everyone else's arguments lead me to say Kingfisher1112 is scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 18, 2012, 09:17:52 pm

"I hope you don't mind me painting the names in blood."

"I thought you were a sponge."

"Of blood."

. . .

"Oh look, they're heating the coals! I wonder what's cooking up for tonight?"

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Wednesday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

10 hours, 47 minutes and 28 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 2
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue - ONE Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 18, 2012, 09:55:09 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:55 am

Now, I have left myself open to attack.

And attacked you shall be.

From a completely alignment neutral perspective, deliberately leaving yourself open to attack is a bad idea.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 17, 2012, 09:34:55 am

Why not refer to Vodot and try to wagon him again?

Whatever case you're trying to make, you're doing a terrible job at making it.

See, you need to do a better job of constructing your posts so that the points you're trying to communicate are both evident and convincing.

See posts from myself, Shakerag, and any other player who's willing to throw up a wall of text to make an argument (not that they need to). These are the sorts of posts you should be trying to emulate.

I think you have decent points to make but your ability to express them as well as your poor argumentation skills are hampering you in getting your message across.

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 18, 2012, 03:30:22 am

Please, if my case is crap look at Jim's. One line and a vote.

Pshaw, fair newb, watcheth thine mouth.

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

italics

WHY

A lot of the time I feel more like an English professor than a mafia instructor with how I have to always tell people how to construct legible posts and make coherent and convincing arguments.

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

As for the first quote that you are suspicious of, please note that it was the first day of play, and I was (still am) trying to figure out how to play this game. Also note that I don't think it is a completely unreasonable assumption to make--unless you really push the matter like Vodot did. I wasn't going out of my way to get ICs lynched like he did, which is evidence Vodot knew something about the ICs we didn't--namely, that they were town and he was not. I think you are observant enough to have noticed the difference. If not, go back and do some reading. If you feel that this is truly a convincing scumtell on my part rather than a tenuous link, that's your prerogative.

But it is a completely unreasonable assumption, as stated by both myself and Shakerag. So why do you still think that way?

So what you're telling me here is that you share the same opinion that vodot has, but it's scummy for vodot to do something about it and in a big fucking way and not scummy for you to sit around passively and do jack shit about it.

Hrmmmmmm. I'm sensing a problem with that. Can you tell what it is? (Hint: It's the passivity and the criticism of aggression.)

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

@ Jim：
Given that I had to go off of evidence primarily from Day 1, I felt that Vodot truly kept condemning himself. He attacked everybody with vitriol and gusto, and it seemed quite un-town to proceed in such a manner. He also seemed extremely paranoid about you ICs, which actually led me to think that neither you nor Shake were scum. As it turns out, Shake was not scum, and also happened to get NKed. If that's not damning, I'm not sure what is.

Now, to be completely honest (given the information I provided), I still think Vodot is scum. But King puts Vodot to shame if he is. See, for instance, the progression of the bandwagon--

But it isn't damning. Shakerag being town does not imply that vodot is scum. If vodot was scum and wanted to lynch the ICs, he wouldn't then nightkill them. It draws unnecessary attention to himself, and it's counterproductive and self-incriminating. And lynching the ICs is fucking hard. Why bother with lynching them as scum when there's this thing called the nightkill. Your argument doesn't make any sense unless you're also going to accuse vodot of being the ballsiest fucking noob scum ever. (Which I will grant you is possible, but I don't think it's that likely.)

Quote from: Kamin on September 17, 2012, 05:37:45 pm

@Vodot: You have a very nice case. I can see you put a lot of time into it, so I don't imagine you'd be willing to drop the vote after all of the work you did. It's ok to be honest here--if you're convinced I'm scum, I won't waste my time writing a wall of text explaining every point away. I still respect what you've done, regardless. If, however, there are questions you'd like to ask me, I'd be willing to answer them. Just keep in mind that everybody makes mistakes, be it town or scum, and this is both of our first game. I've been trying to find my own personal style of playing, so I've probably seemed all over the place... Nice and cordial to finger-pointing asshole, which I readily admit is completely contradictory and sloppy. I don't think it's inherently scummy so much as n00bish and stupid. I've yet to find a balance with play, but I'm trying. I know you've been grappling with the same problem of personal style balance just as I have, which is probably pretty normal this early in our respective Mafia careers. Anyway, let me know if there's anything in particular I can answer, and I will do my best to do so.

Buddying.

Buddyyyyiiiing.

If you love kissing vodot's ass so much why don't you marry it.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 08:16:39 pm

Nah, I like you after all, Kamin. Like Nerjin before you, I think you just finally told town under extreme pressure; it just took you a little longer. Actually, it's me who doesn't want to waste my time, reading your responses to my points. This attitude reversal was enough for me, for now. Unvote.

I see that Kamin kissing your ass has worked out in his favor.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 08:16:39 pm

[IC's: I would appreciate a no-nonsense read on the authenticity of Kamin's Noob Lament (TM!).

I can't, because I read it and strongly think Kamin is scum for it. It wanders too close to the line of my opinion as an IC and my opinion as a player.

Quote from: vodot on September 17, 2012, 08:16:39 pm

Also, is there an established and previously analzed point in BM where we noobs first start clumsily changing the font size for effect? If not, I'd like to register a trademark on 'Noob-sizing', or some other attractively ironic or punny term for this.  Does it work occasionally, or is it merely obnoxious?]

Anything that gets in the way of my standard 12pt font I think is obnoxious.


I was considering swapping my vote from Kamin to kingfisher1112 but his terrible case on vodot and explanation made me reconsider. And the blatant and obvious buddying.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 18, 2012, 11:03:08 pm

Come now, Jim. You're letting me off easy! Why aren't you coming after me?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 19, 2012, 12:15:33 am

Because you haven't done anything suspicious yet.

But since you want me to, tell me what you think of Kamin's buddying up to vodot.

Like, really, who genuinely says a player's case is nice? Especially if the case is about them.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 19, 2012, 01:25:11 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 19, 2012, 12:15:33 am

Because you haven't done anything suspicious yet.

But since you want me to, tell me what you think of Kamin's buddying up to vodot.

Like, really, who genuinely says a player's case is nice? Especially if the case is about them.

I don't know. It's a really dumb thing for him to say. But, then again, this is a beginner's mafia. They haven't learned anything about it yet.

But, I don't know if it's genuine or not, so it's tougher to comment on it. If it's genuine, he's just ignorant. If it's not, then he's pretty good at emotional twisting.

I mean, in a real game, you'd get lynched really hard for that (just fwi) because you should know better. It's an appeal to emotion. However, I do believe that king's guilt is far worse, regardless. Not to say that Kamin isn't scummy. Simply that he doesn't seem like scum yet.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 02:57:36 am

@Nerjin
Read Jim's post. It may seem unlikely, but think about it. Kamin has had poor evidence against Vodot the entire game, and now he simply tries to kiss his ass? Very scummy.
@IC's Finally paying attention to my posts.
@Vodot Why are you accepting Kamin's scummy asskissing? Can you not see the immense scumminess? He may appear ' Innocent Townie' but he is just a scummy dude trying to get you to gang up on me.
Extend. People are going to lurk now because they think I am done. I really do not want that to happen.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 19, 2012, 07:00:16 am

((Question: Can an extend or shorten be Opposed after the number of votes equal the number needed to do such?))

Quote from: Sir Knight on September 19, 2012, 02:57:36 am

Extend.

D:

"Oh deary dear, this seems like a whole day of-"

"Quiet you! You aren't going through the ordeals."

"B-but I-"

"Map, meet burning coal. Burning coal, meet parchment. I trust you'll be good friends soon."

"Now show us the update."

"Eeeeee-"

The blood-like shade recedes back into the ol'parchment, leaving nothing but the cursive script of the knight's name once more.

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

49 hours, 0 minutes and 01 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Under momentary reconstruction and maintenance! Useable if you use it on the first try, it seems))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 07:34:00 am

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 02:57:36 am

Extend. People are going to lurk now because they think I am done. I really do not want that to happen.

So instead of trying to give us a good argument about why Kamin is scum and you're not, you just ask for an extend.  Also, accusing Kamin of kissing vodot's ass isn't going anywhere as far as I'm concerned. Kamin was going at Vodot for a good part of the game-his change now is largely due to a lack of evidence that Kamin can use without showing his true colors.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 09:24:41 am

Everyone is lurking now. Look at it.
And look at it. Kamin, as soon as a sign of danger comes about he gets down and kisses ass. It is scummy as ever loving fuck.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2012, 01:32:12 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 09:24:41 am

Everyone is lurking now. Look at it.
And look at it. Kamin, as soon as a sign of danger comes about he gets down and kisses ass. It is scummy as ever loving fuck.

Mud-slinging is pretty low-form. If you're not scum [I'm sure you are] than you're sort of rude. State your case or don't insult people. It's impolite.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 04:24:04 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 09:24:41 am

Everyone is lurking now. Look at it.
And look at it. Kamin, as soon as a sign of danger comes about he gets down and kisses ass. It is scummy as ever loving fuck.

Well, if everyone's lurking, then we've got six scum don't we? Get off your high horse. Because you're being in Nerjin's words, a jerk, that's scummier than trying hard not to be one. You are being extremely aggresive. That leads to certain thoughts-and the more this goes on, the greater incentive there is to believe that you are scum.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Kamin on September 19, 2012, 04:51:09 pm

Hey all, just wanted to shoot you a quick message letting you know I'm still around! I've been doing some much-needed reading up.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

Fine then.
Kamin, for this entire game, has had it in for Vodot. Most of his votes have had very little reason for attacking Vodot. It was his primary plan of attack. He has been trying to get rid of him since nearly the start of the game. And now he has more than one vote on him, he tries very hard to get his vote. Why? Why would a townie show emotion to get himself protected? Answer: They wouldn't. Scum would try to appear remorseful and embarrassed, and get some poor sap in on it.
However, Vodot has fallen for it. Why? Because he is also scum. Vodot has been putting on the guise of a really good townie the entire game. He also did try to start an attack on the IC's, and an attack on a lot of people.

@Ner + Sox
Get off your high horses. Acting like you are the arbiters of being polite is annoying. Jim has pretty much used those exact same words, so go annoy him about it.

@sox
May I please refer you to the ' Shorten' option. Go ahead and use it if you want me dead RIGHT NOW.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2012, 07:06:59 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

Fine then.
Kamin, for this entire game, has had it in for Vodot. Most of his votes have had very little reason for attacking Vodot. It was his primary plan of attack. He has been trying to get rid of him since nearly the start of the game. And now he has more than one vote on him, he tries very hard to get his vote. Why? Why would a townie show emotion to get himself protected? Answer: They wouldn't. Scum would try to appear remorseful and embarrassed, and get some poor sap in on it.
However, Vodot has fallen for it. Why? Because he is also scum. Vodot has been putting on the guise of a really good townie the entire game. He also did try to start an attack on the IC's, and an attack on a lot of people.

So if you go after only one person you are scum. If you go after multiple people you are scum. Doesn't leave much room to meanuver.

Why did you try the emotion thing as well? Pot calling the kettle black perhaps?

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

@Ner + Sox
Get off your high horses. Acting like you are the arbiters of being polite is annoying. Jim has pretty much used those exact same words, so go annoy him about it.

Don't talk about Buttercup that way. She is very sensitive about her height. Besides there is a difference between being logical and upfront and being hateful. I understand where you're coming from but the thing is you don't have to be quite so rude. It doesn't help anything and may even get you in more trouble as the super-heavy reaction may be seen as a scum-tell.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Nerjin on September 19, 2012, 07:11:44 pm

Mod Is there a limit to how many extends can happen per day?

I'm thinking maybe we should just shorten. King seems to be out of empty rhetoric to throw at us if he has to resort to such weak arguments. Or should we just wait?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 07:13:29 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

@Ner + Sox
Get off your high horses. Acting like you are the arbiters of being polite is annoying. Jim has pretty much used those exact same words, so go annoy him about it.

@sox
May I please refer you to the ' Shorten' option. Go ahead and use it if you want me dead RIGHT NOW.

I'm not telling you to be more polite or I'll lynch you. I'm telling you that being a jerk can be a scum tell. And if I wanted you dead, I'd have shifted my vote from Kamin to you, true? What I'm saying is that while I find some things weird about your actions, I find that scumtell from Kamin much more. I'm using this time to feel around, to see if you're town or not.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: vodot on September 19, 2012, 09:02:05 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

May I please refer you to the ' Shorten' option. Go ahead and use it if you want me dead RIGHT NOW.

Don't mind if I do.  Shorten it out Yo.

I wish I had canceled my previous extension vote.  I had really wanted that for the cycle before this one. Shortening seems ick, and I'm not speaking for everyone, but I really do think I've personally seen enough to lynch King and wait for the flip.  My brain hurts from this 100-post D2 of hugeness.  If anyone feel strongly enough to make a serious case that I should switch back to Kamin, I'm listening.  It is certainly possible that my ass is just being overly responsive to smooches, but I haven't heard anything really compelling so far. 

I would like to hear back from sox and/or Jim before anyone else votes to shorten. 

Jim, are you still voting Kamin over King even after this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3624218#msg3624218)  Why?

King, feel free to elaborate on that nasty bit of last minute OMGUSing you're doing; it's so vague that I'm not even getting excited about it.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 09:17:26 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 19, 2012, 09:02:05 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 19, 2012, 07:00:23 pm

May I please refer you to the ' Shorten' option. Go ahead and use it if you want me dead RIGHT NOW.

Don't mind if I do.  Shorten it out Yo.

I wish I had canceled my previous extension vote.  I had really wanted that for the cycle before this one. Shortening seems ick, and I'm not speaking for everyone, but I really do think I've personally seen enough to lynch King and wait for the flip.  My brain hurts from this 100-post D2 of hugeness.  If anyone feel strongly enough to make a serious case that I should switch back to Kamin, I'm listening.  It is certainly possible that my ass is just being overly responsive to smooches, but I haven't heard anything really compelling so far. 

I would like to hear back from sox and/or Jim before anyone else votes to shorten. 

Jim, are you still voting Kamin over King even after this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3624218#msg3624218)  Why?

King, feel free to elaborate on that nasty bit of last minute OMGUSing you're doing; it's so vague that I'm not even getting excited about it.

I'm sorry. What'd I miss now? If you're asking why my vote's still on Kamin, it's largely for stating that I wouldn't get NK'd. At this point, I'm certain that one of the two is scum, and while I'm pretty sure it's Kamin, it we lynched King and he flipped scum I'd have no leads.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 19, 2012, 10:11:19 pm

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 07:34:00 am

Kamin was going at Vodot for a good part of the game-his change now is largely due to a lack of evidence that Kamin can use without showing his true colors.

Yes, but isn't it the least bit curious that Kamin did it in the first place?

His case was crap, but he only had this realization after I told him it was.

And his case still is crap, since you seem to have missed that he still thinks vodot is scum.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 07:13:29 pm

I'm telling you that being a jerk can be a scum tell.

Nope. Players are jerks. Alignments aren't.

We're not here to sip tea and chat about polo, we butt heads and aggressively get answers. Sometimes things heat up and we turn into jerks. This happens to everyone regardless of alignment.

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 19, 2012, 04:24:04 pm

Because you're being in Nerjin's words, a jerk, that's scummier than trying hard not to be one. You are being extremely aggresive.

Being a jerk =/= being aggressive.

If you're calling him aggressive, you're actually complimenting him, as aggression is a town trait.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 19, 2012, 07:11:44 pm

King seems to be out of empty rhetoric to throw at us if he has to resort to such weak arguments. Or should we just wait?

Shame on him for trying to stay alive.

Actually, no, there's no shame in that. If I were in his position I'd be doing the same thing. It's just so annoying when someone refuses to go down easy, isn't it?

Quote from: vodot on September 19, 2012, 09:02:05 pm

Jim, are you still voting Kamin over King even after this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3624218#msg3624218)  Why?

What's so special about it? It's a stupid argument. Oh, right, it's about you. How dare he malign the towniness that wubadict hath dubbed thee with.

It's stupid, but kingfisher1112 is a weak player and I've seen noobs like him flail just like him in the exact same way. I don't think too much of it and all I read from it is 'panicky noob'.

His bandwagon was scummy but I think Kamin's ass-kissing and shitty cases are scummier. It's actually pretty hilarious how much the ass-kissing has gotten to you.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 19, 2012, 11:54:33 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 19, 2012, 07:11:44 pm

Mod Is there a limit to how many extends can happen per day?

I'm thinking maybe we should just shorten. King seems to be out of empty rhetoric to throw at us if he has to resort to such weak arguments. Or should we just wait?

"No limit, sir Knight. In this game. Just...um, shout your actions out!" ((Bold them. Check the recent BM wherein the Extend option was beaten to death.  :P))

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

32 hours, 5 minutes and 57 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
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Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 02:57:10 am

@vodot:
Last minute OMGUS?
And you seem to really be ignoring all of mine and and Jim's posts. Kamin is simply using you as a disposable vote, and after this he'll get right back on you. And if you want me dead then it won't really matter about who gets lynched. Kamin will most likely get lynched tomorrow after this ordeal. And really, even if my Defence is for naught I've just info mined a whole lot for the town players.
@everyone voting me
You all have crap arguments. I have been looking back at nearly all Kamin's posts, and you guys are just looking at my own recent posts. Put some effort in.
@Jim
Should I just give in? Is this benefitting the town for me to put up a fight?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2012, 03:32:15 am

If you think you can change people's minds then try all you want.

At a certain point though, it's just not going to happen, and everybody wants to get done with the day and move on.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 04:43:22 am

I believe that time has come. I am tired of this pointless Defence.
Shorten.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2012, 05:38:30 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2012, 03:32:15 am

At a certain point though, it's just not going to happen, and everybody wants to get done with the day and move on.

So I take it everyone wants to shorten and end it before day end without acting then?

2 more votes to end day.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 07:52:00 am

Pretty much.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2012, 09:13:40 am

King: When you give up, you lose. If you never give up, sometimes there's a light at the end, and it's not death. It sounds stupid, but if you're not trying, then we don't want to keep you alive. That's why Kamin is alive where you're not about to be. He tried ever so slightly.

I mean, if you wanna give up, then I'll shorten too. It's just a shame though. Sometimes there's no way out, but you keep fighting just in case. It's happened to me plenty of times. Sometimes I did get out, sometimes I didn't. Hey. At least I tried.

Did you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: wsoxfan on September 20, 2012, 04:38:44 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 04:43:22 am

I believe that time has come. I am tired of this pointless Defence.
Shorten.

Have it your way.
shorten

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 06:35:35 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 20, 2012, 09:13:40 am

King: When you give up, you lose. If you never give up, sometimes there's a light at the end, and it's not death. It sounds stupid, but if you're not trying, then we don't want to keep you alive. That's why Kamin is alive where you're not about to be. He tried ever so slightly.

I mean, if you wanna give up, then I'll shorten too. It's just a shame though. Sometimes there's no way out, but you keep fighting just in case. It's happened to me plenty of times. Sometimes I did get out, sometimes I didn't. Hey. At least I tried.

Did you?

I tried. I tried very hard. I tried my hardest to acquit myself and lynch Kamin. But, I think everyone, including me, is sick and tired of this. Look, I really wanted to keep going. But I can see it is pointless to.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2012, 07:57:22 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 20, 2012, 06:35:35 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 20, 2012, 09:13:40 am

King: When you give up, you lose. If you never give up, sometimes there's a light at the end, and it's not death. It sounds stupid, but if you're not trying, then we don't want to keep you alive. That's why Kamin is alive where you're not about to be. He tried ever so slightly.

I mean, if you wanna give up, then I'll shorten too. It's just a shame though. Sometimes there's no way out, but you keep fighting just in case. It's happened to me plenty of times. Sometimes I did get out, sometimes I didn't. Hey. At least I tried.

Did you?

I tried. I tried very hard. I tried my hardest to acquit myself and lynch Kamin. But, I think everyone, including me, is sick and tired of this. Look, I really wanted to keep going. But I can see it is pointless to.

Pointless why? What is pointless about dying?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2012, 08:35:33 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 20, 2012, 09:13:40 am

That's why Kamin is alive where you're not about to be. He tried ever so slightly.

Say what.

A post filled with asskissing after days of lurking followed by days of lurking is just enough to count as trying?

kingfisher1112 is hampered by ability, not effort, and the exact opposite is true for Kamin.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2012, 10:11:28 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 20, 2012, 08:35:33 pm

Quote from: webadict on September 20, 2012, 09:13:40 am

That's why Kamin is alive where you're not about to be. He tried ever so slightly.

Say what.

A post filled with asskissing after days of lurking followed by days of lurking is just enough to count as trying?

kingfisher1112 is hampered by ability, not effort, and the exact opposite is true for Kamin.

Gonna have to disagree with that one. King has shown self-preservation to be far more vital than necessary.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: Tiruin on September 20, 2012, 10:46:22 pm

The map whistles nonchalantly. For those of you who look, see nothing but a flat sheet of paper with it's corners folding and undulating.

Weird.

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting:

Between the hour of the Lynx and the Falcon.

((Day 2 will end at September 19, 2012 [Friday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

9 hours, 14 minutes and 32 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

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Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 2, Deliberations Continue
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2012, 11:35:34 pm

Shorten

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Night 2: Purged?
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2012, 12:32:03 am

"Eeep!"

The same hue of red appeared around Sir Xavier's name as the heavy footfalls of the Marshall approached.

"Have ye all decided?"

"Yea, verily."

"Very well."

Sir Devon's hands clasped around something hidden behind his back -- not the hilt of his sword, though -- and revealed a wooden box. It was embellished with gold and amber lining. The seal of the King was broken down the middle as the Marshall opened it.

"This is the locket belonging to my beloved. Sire, I ask you to fetch it from that pot over there," he said, pointing to a blackened cauldron about the width of two men and half as high, "through the ordeal of boiling water."

"Get your heirloom, if wounded, I'm guilty. If not, I'm safe?"

"Aye. Judicium Dei, my friend. But under different conditions than what you know...Special case, and all."

The Knight beat his right hand on his chest as a salute as the Marshall grasped the locket and threw it into the cauldron, leaving a sonorous ringing as it sank to the bottom. You could hear Leon's breathing as he stood, perched adjacent to the cauldron, imagining the heat he was feeling from the thick steam.

"Now, Sire. We've but little time. Remember the drink I- let you all have? They were prepared with Wintersnap, an herb growing on the high mountains of the north. Now, this means there are only two conclusions. You get harmed, or not. All within the sanctity of this place.

"Ready?"

"Drop."

With the aid of the people nearby, the Knight's arm plunged hand-first into the boiling water. Any reaction he had was muffled by the hiss of the water and a dense cloud of steam engulfing him.

Suddenly, the sky turned dark, attracting the eyes of every spectator. The sun was blocked by a strange disc-like object, covering the world in darkness. Cries and screams came from the commoners gathered around you, which the attending guards hushed as attention was brought back onto the persecuted.

"I've your trinket. Now release me."

Sir Leon stood upright, his naked arm holding the Marshall's locket which glistened in the light of the flames.

"Witchcraft.""Strange...an eclipse." ^Magic._Lies...""Blight!""No, sire, I can see it too.""He cheated! I saw it! _{I think...}"
"Do you think he's up, now?""Take him in!""Must surely be his doing.""To the dungeons!"

"Silence! I will have none of this superstitious tomfoolery until this trial is finished! Everyone of you, take to your quarters. I will personally see to this place that nobody is out and free. A guard at every man's door! This is not wizardry or whatever you see it as!

"Well? Move!"

Unbidden by the order of the Marshall, you all head back into the Keep, your leader directing you all into the Great Hall as you see the Knight being taken into a different corridor, flanked by people in black plate.

"This place is barred on the outside, lit on the inside. Whatever happens, I'll know. Take any corner of this place, you all sleep here. Map will keep watch."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (3) - wsoxfan, Jim Groovester, kingfisher1112
• kingfisher1112 (4) - Kamin, vodot, webadict, Nerjin
• webadict (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

The hour of the Falcon.

---

kingfisher1112 has been /lynched/! He was a Vanilla Townie!

---

Quote

Sir Leon "kingfisher1112" Xavier

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie))

---

((Night 2 will end at September 24, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

The game has entered the night phase, no one may post during the night phase and the thread will be locked to ensure as such.

Please submit your actions via PM, if any. The Night will end at the time stated or until all probable actions are sent in. The Night will not obviously end on the Weekend.))

"At least I'm safe in your hands, sir knights!"

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2012, 09:15:08 am

"After darkest night..."

"Wake up! Wake up! Sire Mendel yet fails to stir!"

The cries of Map brought you all here, gathered at the sight of one of your own, dead at the eastern wall overlooking the countryside. There were no visible marks of wounds or cuts on him, but his body is splayed out in an odd-angle, as if trying to scramble away from something. A pouch of herbs was found, crushed under his body along with most of it's contents, now rendered rotten and spoiled save for three. They were herbs, grown in the same place as the structure you all reside, as said by your leader as he inspects the corpse.

"Still warm, whoever has done this is still with us. The killer is among us."

After a prayer for the dead, you are led out of the Great Hall, the burden heavy on your shoulders as you wonder how he could've died without any of you even knowing. Map explained that it didn't see anything -- despite not having eyes, it could sense the outside world within a forty yard radius, whatever a yard is.

Though, your leader heads down a different set of pathways, verging from that leading to the Courtyard, crossing up and down several stairwells only lit by burning torches and bereft of the light of the sun.

"We're dealing with a powerful enemy here. I'm a fair man and I'd like to see things done where anyone can win this.

"We're heading to the Inner Chambers. A place built during the foundation of this sanctuary here, said to house...immense power."

"What power may that be, sire?"

"We'll find out when we get there, won't we?"

As you pass another hallway, you can hear the screams of a man echo in the distance. The dungeons aren't an inviting place, indeed.

---

((webadict has been slain! He was the Town Doctor!))

Quote

Sir George "webadict//markressler" Mendel

You are the Apothecary of the Iridescent Flame {Town Doctor}, a noble and trusted man in the eyes of the commoners and of your fellow knights. Your knowledge on herbal lore and treatment of the wounded have been crucial to the survival of your order, being able to heal the most grevous of wounds and maladys. Your trustworthiness has given you free passage of the order halls during the hours after twilight, due to recent events.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Protect any individual, except yourself from the Mafia Nightkill, thereby saving the target if the same target was singled out for death during the Night.))

---

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (0) -
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Kamin, vodot, Nerjin, wsoxfan, Jim Groovester


The hour of the Rooster.

((Day 3 will end at September 27, 2012 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

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Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: kingfisher1112 on September 24, 2012, 09:42:41 am

Bah post time.
@Kamin: You are scum.
@Vodot: You are scum.
@Jim: Oh stop you *Blushes*
Bah bah scum sheep have you any scum? Yes sir yes sir I've got two. One is an asskisser and the other is a sap.
I will be watching. Have fun, and keep calm.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 24, 2012, 09:44:43 am

Quote from: OP

You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.

Yes, this means your speculation or opinion. You can comment on your demise, though.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: webadict on September 24, 2012, 06:45:20 pm

Quote from: kingfisher1112 on September 24, 2012, 09:42:41 am

*moron*

You got yourself lynched, moron. Now, edit all that out and put in a proper message, you penguin slut.

Also, congratulations scum. Kill the active people. I just love that strategy because it goes so well with the spirit of the game.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 24, 2012, 06:55:53 pm

Well... this bodes badly. So anyone have any ideas right now? I'll be posting later/tomorrow with mine.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Yeah, sucks that your lack of ability made it freaking impossible for me to separate your potential scummitude from your abjectly horrendous play! Way to give up and almost throw the game you crop-dusting ASS!!!  You can't even bah post without playing the idiot!!

I am freaking sick of reading this garbage!  How do you ICs even PLAY?

Props for the colossal ass-kiss, Kamin. Answer all four of my points.

Shorten.

PPE:
Nerjin, here's an idea: Who is more likely than you to be Kamin's scummate, and why?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:03:08 pm

unshorten. 

Actually, I think it is better to let this one play out.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 24, 2012, 07:29:12 pm

You seem awfully quick to try to kill people off today Vodot. Trying to win quickly?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 24, 2012, 08:59:50 pm

It's lylo, which means the town must lynch scum or they lose. It's time to go back through the game and look at the remaining players. Have an eye for detail and if you come across anything odd or suspicious, ask about it. Once you've gone through all the evidence, make your case and cast your vote.

Kamin for asskissing and then lurking and every other point I brought up yesterday.

Nerjin, give me your read on Kamin.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: wsoxfan on September 24, 2012, 09:47:19 pm

Kamin, the fact that King was lynched doesn't change anthing. I still believe that you're scum for the reasons I stated before.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 24, 2012, 11:51:05 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 24, 2012, 07:29:12 pm

You seem awfully quick to try to kill people off today Vodot. Trying to win quickly?

Yes, I am. Answer your two outstanding questions.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 01:35:14 am

@All: Web is dead. That's probably the single worst thing that could have happened for me over the night. He was the only person that was really giving me a chance: Sox was already convinced I'm scum, Jim has a hard-on for newb butthole, and Vodot and Nerjin would probably flip in the next round. Well let me just say that if I were scum, I can guaran-fuckin'-tee you I would not have killed Web. I already knew I didn't have a big pull on most of you, and I sure as hell wouldn't bank on being able to talk my way out of it if I was scum. In all honesty, I'd probably have gone for Jim or Sox if they were town simply because I was already up for the chopping block--it wouldn't have changed the way things ended for me personally, but at least I'd get a good spitekill in there. It simply doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping that this mistake on part of the Scumteam is one that some of you will pick up on. Make damn sure I'm the guy you want to lynch, because this is pretty much the worst case scenario for us as a town.

@Sox: I answered your questions pretty well, which I think Web also said. I don't know what I can say to you to sway you one way or the other, but just like always, I'm always willing to answer questions. I'm not sure whether what you're doing is just trying to appear convicted, or try to lynch town so you can win. It's a hard call for me to make, especially knowing that you have played Mafia before.

@Vodot:
1. In post 65, Kamin voluntarily answers my opened-ended question from the scum perspective, saying"if I was mafia, I would do" such and such, and "if I wasn't mafia, ..."  I think this is a blatant slip, and I am surprised I missed it in previous reads.  My question was directly referencing the current game and in no way biased him towards a scum or town answer; but he answered it first from a scum perspective.  I see no reason for him to do this unless he had been spending considerable time considering the current game from he scum perspective.  A town player would answer as town to such an open-ended question.

I don't honestly see how me answering first from a scum perspective could at all be used as evidence as a scum slip-up. I believe you were playing the hardass at the time, and I didn't think there was anything wrong with trying to be thorough in order to answer your question satisfactorily. This is probably the most tenuous of the links you're trying to make in your case against me.

2. Later in the same post and often throughout the thread, Kamin becomes agitated and obsessed over proving that what he is doing is not scummy, rather than directly confronting logic he disagrees with or simply admitting when he is wrong.  This strikes me as convoluted play for town.  Instead of trying to "de-scummify" your image, why would you not instead spend more time asserting your townie-ness and telling town by using evidence and refuting bad reason?  But Kamin doesn't tell town, get frustrated, or attack logic; he just denies responsibility and compares himself to other scummy players, saying "look!  I'm not half as scummy as they are!" Posts where he does this: 65, 73, 168,

I don't really know how this is something you wanted me to "respond to." You yourself say it's "convoluted play for town;" does that mean town couldn't do it? Especially in a beginner's mafia? Moreover, it seems to kind of contradict your first point in that I seemed super scummy for the order in which I answer a question, but then I'm playing "too convoluted for town." So how, pray tell, am I supposed to play? You're not leaving much room here.

3. In post 129, Kamin begins what is going to be a thread-long attack against me for two of my behaviors:
- Being a hardass and strongly pressuring every other player
- My special suspicion and distrust of the ICs

He never offers a lot of substance to show how either of these two charges are scummy, and eventually he is just going to repeat them no mater how often I explain these behaviors to him and to others that found these behaviors uncomfortable. Even when I directly demand that  he deliver evidence, he trots out a repeated line about how there is no evidence in Mafia, and how things are based on feelings, which is just wrong; and it should be especially easy for him to find something in my case given my large amount of exposure here.

I think "special suspicion" of the ICs is pretty scummy. I can understand it to some extent, but you seemed to really like running with it. "Special suspicion"... That term right there is pretty scummy, no? This "special suspicion" implies that you are worried about them for some reason, which can in turn be used to imply that you know that they are town or not. And, funny enough, the first NK was Shakerag. I think that's kind of suspicious in and of itself. "Being a hardass and strongly suspecting other players" also seems a bit scummy in that you're attacking absolutely everybody so as to seem "more town" (impartial?). It seems like a classic case of misdirection, and that seems scummy to me.

4. Finally, Kamin has displayed a lack of willingness to actually engage the town with real information and play.  In post 131, I pressure him to explain why he second-voted mark.  All i wanted was for him to admit that he indeed cast a second vote on Mark; Kamin never answers.  In post 151, Kamin says he 'likes my answers'; but He says it still just really seems like I do want to lynch the ICs, telling me it seems I'm on a "witch hunt" (....yes?) and that I "look guiltier" than Mark.  I demand evidence.  No Evidence. In 172, Kamin nonchalantly asks about an extension when he knows the town is facing no-lynch; and in post 190, Kamin spends more time writing flavor text than he does actually going after me with real evidence or responding to my self-defense, lamely misdirecting the town to an "evidence" thread completely devoid of any.

I answered every question directed to me throughout the game, and asked questions of my own. As seen in your first point, apparently answering questions in as complete a manner as possible, as well as the order of the perspective used, is "scummy" in your book. I don't agree and feel that this point is also pretty contradictory. It seems like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't in your condensed points, and it currently just seems predatory. Oh, and I did say why I voted Mark; I said he was saying some of the scummiest things in the game. Asking me if I did or did not vote for Mark after somebody else is a stupid and leading question--all you need to do is refer to the posts. This was aggressive of you too, and looking back at it, was also scummy of you. As far as flavor was concerned, I like flavor. I was also doing what I could to read back on the game and try and figure out who's scum and who's not. Again, not that scummy. You can look at it as a post to even just remind people I was around, as that's pretty much what it was. If you take issue with that, it's your prerogative. I just hope that if you're town, you realize you're barking up the wrong tree.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:48:49 am

Kamin, which scum team is more likely: Jim/Sox, or Nerjin/Sox?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:56:02 am

Jim, why would noob scum kill webadict rather than you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 02:35:34 am

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:48:49 am

Kamin, which scum team is more likely: Jim/Sox, or Nerjin/Sox?

This is hard to answer because I need to actually go back through posts hXc and get discriminating. I have already said that Jim and Sox have seemed to have bloodboners for me, especially Sox--his evidence is lacking and I think, based on what I can recall of his posts, he is the most likely candidate as scum. However, I don't think Sox and Jim are on a team simply because they both want me lynched. That would be a pretty poorly-backed assumption to make. Here, however, are my current reads on Jim and Nerjin. I realize I'm laying all of my cards on the table in posting my following analysis, but it's something I think I need to get out there, even if just to vindicate me once I get lynched.

Jim: Jim kind of waited around and didn't post a lot in the beginning. I understand that everybody has shit to do in their lives, and I respect that. However, you can bet your ass that he read absolutely everything that people posted in the meantime. This seems like a total double standard (if not a little scummy), and it turned out that we kind of let him rest on his Mafia laurels without getting on him too hard. In the same breath, I think Jim is more calculating than that, but you never know, as he might just be taking advantage of newbs in the BM to teach them something.

I don't know if he's really convinced I'm scum, as his case on me doesn't seem like a very solid one. "Oh, you kiss ass, you're scum." Yeah, not really what I'd have expected from someone with so much experience. I think, rather, that his move was to pressure me into being more active, and then to frustrate me into telling scum or town. It's hard to say at this point where he's going to go with it, but that's my take on the situation. Because of this, I think he's probably town.

Nerjin: Nerjin hasn't posted a whole hell of a lot with substance, and he also played in the last BM. That being said, it's hard to get a read on him. If it's any indication, I've noticed that the more you say, the more people think you're scum--at least in my case. It makes sense though, because people who talk more are more likely to say stupid shit and get jumped on for it. Nerjin and Sox played the last game, so they say less because they know better. This isn't a very solid scum tell, but it's something.

Nerjin is probably about as active as Sox, and posts about as much of substance as Sox does. However, a lot of people who posted less or shit that just didn't have a lot of substance have turned out to be town (i.e., Wrex/Web and King), so I'm trying to keep that in the back of my mind.

I suppose that would leave you with a tentative "Sox/Nerjin." I would really love it if it turns out to be Sox and Jim, but Jim seems 60/40 town for me right now. Sox is probably 70/30 scum, and Nerjin a 60/40 scum. As for you, Vodot, you're with Jim at 60/40 town. You post a lot, which means there's a lot of ammo against you, but it's pretty much the same with me. You also seem genuinely concerned with getting things right, which is town, and you have done a fuckload of work (even if I think a lot of your points against me were tenuous). If you turn out scum, I fucking salute you.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 25, 2012, 10:25:29 am

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Props for the colossal ass-kiss, Kamin. Answer all four of my points.

Shorten.

This is all I'll really have time to bring up at this time but I will do more later on. We just started the day and you're already calling for a shorten? You take it back in your next post I just find it a bit suspicious that you want to shorten right away? Did you reread the thread keeping in mind that Web and King were no longer scum-suspects? Why did you want to shorten so quickly? Why did you take it back so soon afterwards?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Shakerag on September 25, 2012, 02:20:44 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

I am freaking sick of reading this garbage!  How do you ICs even PLAY?

[We all have saint-level amounts of patience.  Usually.  Also, let's keep it civil, hmm?]

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Shorten.

[A terrible thing to open LYLO with.  You want to be absolutely certain you are lynching scum right now or you lose.  Even if you think you're certain, use this time to be extra certain.]


[Kamin: Every time you drop a wall of text, god kills a puppy.]

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:56:02 am

Jim, why would noob scum kill webadict rather than you?

[Haven't we been over this one already?]


[All:  Keep up the activity, people.  Lack of activity at LYLO will absolutely cost you the game.  Just look at the previous BM for a shining of example of LYLO lurking.]

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 25, 2012, 05:07:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:48:49 am

Kamin, which scum team is more likely: Jim/Sox, or Nerjin/Sox?

So despite the fact that you are betting the game on the fact that Kamin is scum you ask the one who you are absolutely certain is scum who is the most likely scum-team? What's your logic here?

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:56:02 am

Jim, why would noob scum kill webadict rather than you?

Just what are you getting at here? I don't see how asking him this does anything. How would he know for certain? If he did know for certain he'd be scum. Are you trying to set up a WIFOM perhaps? Just what is your motivation on this one?

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Yeah, sucks that your lack of ability made it freaking impossible for me to separate your potential scummitude from your abjectly horrendous play! Way to give up and almost throw the game you crop-dusting ASS!!!  You can't even bah post without playing the idiot!!

I am freaking sick of reading this garbage!  How do you ICs even PLAY?

Props for the colossal ass-kiss, Kamin. Answer all four of my points.

Shorten.

PPE:
Nerjin, here's an idea: Who is more likely than you to be Kamin's scummate, and why?

I think it's most likely you. You've seen how badly he's set himself up by being a bad player and now your bussing him to make everyone else see you as an untainted saint for ridding them of the evil scum of Kamin. However I think you're scum-telling as opposed to Kamin's awful gameplay style.

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:03:08 pm

unshorten. 

Actually, I think it is better to let this one play out.

Two minutes after you wanted to shorten? Did you even think that move over? Why were you so eager to shorten in the first place?  It seems like a foolish move to make during LYLO. You say in #337 that you are trying to win quickly. But the only person who can be sure that they win if Kamin is lynched is a scum. After all if we lynch kamin and he is scum than we still have one more to get. But if he isn't scum and you are then by shortening you win. I'm pretty sure that's what you're getting at Vodot

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 24, 2012, 08:59:50 pm

-snip-

Nerjin, give me your read on Kamin.

I'm thinking Kamin may be scum. He is giving tells but some of those could be considered just a bad player move. I'm still not 100% convinced that he is scum though. But he is my second pick.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: wsoxfan on September 25, 2012, 08:06:34 pm

unvote
Gentlemen, I'm sorry, but some prior commitments I've made for other forums have been acting up as of late in addition to schoolwork really adding up. So a combination between the two just doesn't leave me with enough time to stay active on this. I had a lot of fun, but I just can't see myself staying as active as I should in Mafia. I hope to see you in possibly RTD games later.

request replacement

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 25, 2012, 09:21:20 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on September 25, 2012, 02:20:44 pm

[Kamin: Every time you drop a wall of text, god kills a puppy.]

((Nobody complained when I dropped a wall of text. Well, puppies didn't. :P))

---

---

---

Quote from: wsoxfan on September 25, 2012, 08:06:34 pm

request replacement

((Acknowledged. If you can still play, post in until I can find a willing replacee!))

---

You hear your footsteps echo along the dark and dank passage, the tone dropping deeper and deeper as you move through.

"How long until we reach the Chamber, Sire?"

"It was a long time ago."

"Err, alright. Does anyone have something to drink? I'm parched."

"Ahh, note. Keep on discussing behind me, I don't mind. Map will take care of it."

"Map is with u-"

"I'm on your head!"

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (2) - vodot, Jim Groovester,
• vodot (1) -  Nerjin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Kamin, wsoxfan


The hour of the Rat.

((Day 3 will end at September 27, 2012 [Thursday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

34 hours, 39 minutes and 02 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Used once per browser, every other attempt seems to fail until...some time later.

Orange names are up for replacement.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: vodot on September 25, 2012, 11:37:07 pm

Unvote.

Nerjin, that was just absolutely terrible.

Extend.

More later.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 01:35:14 am

@All: Web is dead. That's probably the single worst thing that could have happened for me over the night. He was the only person that was really giving me a chance: Sox was already convinced I'm scum, Jim has a hard-on for newb butthole, and Vodot and Nerjin would probably flip in the next round. Well let me just say that if I were scum, I can guaran-fuckin'-tee you I would not have killed Web. I already knew I didn't have a big pull on most of you, and I sure as hell wouldn't bank on being able to talk my way out of it if I was scum. In all honesty, I'd probably have gone for Jim or Sox if they were town simply because I was already up for the chopping block--it wouldn't have changed the way things ended for me personally, but at least I'd get a good spitekill in there. It simply doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping that this mistake on part of the Scumteam is one that some of you will pick up on. Make damn sure I'm the guy you want to lynch, because this is pretty much the worst case scenario for us as a town.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM

And more pleading.

What the hell good do you think pleading is going to do for you? Scumhunting is the only way to look like town. Why are you wasting time making appeals to the remaining players in the game when you could be trying to get the person you think is scum lynched.

Which you are not doing, seeing as how you have yet to vote anybody. Who's your top suspect, and why aren't you voting them and grilling the fuck out of them? Maybe you seem to think you can make it through lylo if you make a convincing argument for how everything looks bad for you but you're totally not scum, really, guys, come on.

Quote from: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 01:35:14 am

I answered every question directed to me throughout the game

Ha ha.

Ha. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3622004#msg3622004)

You're funny.

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 01:56:02 am

Jim, why would noob scum kill webadict rather than you?

Fuck if I know.

Maybe they rate his ability to pierce through lylo higher than mine. Or maybe they flipped a coin. I can't say.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 25, 2012, 05:07:53 pm

I'm thinking Kamin may be scum. He is giving tells but some of those could be considered just a bad player move. I'm still not 100% convinced that he is scum though. But he is my second pick.

Tells like what?

This is perfunctory suspicion because you were called out on it. Bare bones. Nothing there. No reasons.

Scummy of you.

Quote from: vodot on September 25, 2012, 11:37:07 pm

Unvote.

Why?

Extend because more than two people need to cast their votes during lylo.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 26, 2012, 11:51:17 pm

"Extension accepted!"

"Ugh, there Map goes on again. What is it talking about?"

"Perhaps, the distance from our relative position which is shifting from our destined location due to the layout of-"

"...What?"

"Err, nevermind. Let's just keep moving."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (0) -
• Kamin (1) - Jim Groovester,
• vodot (1) -  Nerjin
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Kamin, wsoxfan, vodot


The hour of the Rat.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

104 hours,13 minutes and 26 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Used once per browser, every other attempt seems to fail until...some time later.

Orange names are up for replacement.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Who's your top suspect, and why aren't you voting them and grilling the fuck out of them?

My top suspect is Sox, did you happen to conveniently skip my last post? And hard to grill him now that he's not saying a word, eh?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 01:35:14 am

I answered every question directed to me throughout the game

Ha ha.

Ha. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3622004#msg3622004)

Directing me to a post where you ask rhetorical questions and put on a show is not asking ME anything, nor does it prove me wrong. It's simple misdirection, and that's scumtastic.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Why are you wasting time making appeals to the remaining players in the game when you could be trying to get the person you think is scum lynched.

If you are asking a question, end it with a question mark please. It's only proper. In any case, it's a LYLO situation, Jim; I want to be sure about it, whereas you just want to tunnel somebody (me).

You've been tunneling me pretty fucking hard since #256 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.256), and have contrived as much as you could out of literally everything I've done. Your "case" against me is essentially that I'm kissing ass and not scum hunting, but that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. You yourself have been sitting on ass going for me forever and a half, and I wouldn't say brazen tunneling counts as scum hunting either, Jim.

Sox is probably lurking around to throw in a random vote to tip the game into a scum win, and I don't feel that opting for a replacement when the heat gets turned up in any way absolves you from the game. We all know damn well he's not likely to get replaced, so why now? Moreover, I feel he was disingenuous about his justification for continuing to vote me after #280 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.280). His justification for it, in #283 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.283), was extremely weak, and it leads me to believe that he couldn't find anything else to go with and was just tunneling the bandwagon out of scummy laziness.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2012, 07:52:57 am

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Sox is probably lurking around[...]

Err, about that. Nobody can use the guise of replacement requested to then vote in, unless it is redacted or someone else comes in. If the latter happens, the person would still have to mark their target in red to do so.

Regardless, that would just be foul play (or a tactic I've never seen before that completely astounds me by it's intricacy)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Pranz on September 27, 2012, 10:05:18 am

I can hop in. Played one other mafia game on this forum, some epicmafia too.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: wsoxfan on September 27, 2012, 04:08:11 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Who's your top suspect, and why aren't you voting them and grilling the fuck out of them?

My top suspect is Sox, did you happen to conveniently skip my last post? And hard to grill him now that he's not saying a word, eh?

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 25, 2012, 01:35:14 am

I answered every question directed to me throughout the game

Ha ha.

Ha. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3622004#msg3622004)

Directing me to a post where you ask rhetorical questions and put on a show is not asking ME anything, nor does it prove me wrong. It's simple misdirection, and that's scumtastic.

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 26, 2012, 06:45:28 pm

Why are you wasting time making appeals to the remaining players in the game when you could be trying to get the person you think is scum lynched.

If you are asking a question, end it with a question mark please. It's only proper. In any case, it's a LYLO situation, Jim; I want to be sure about it, whereas you just want to tunnel somebody (me).

You've been tunneling me pretty fucking hard since #256 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.256), and have contrived as much as you could out of literally everything I've done. Your "case" against me is essentially that I'm kissing ass and not scum hunting, but that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. You yourself have been sitting on ass going for me forever and a half, and I wouldn't say brazen tunneling counts as scum hunting either, Jim.

Sox is probably lurking around to throw in a random vote to tip the game into a scum win, and I don't feel that opting for a replacement when the heat gets turned up in any way absolves you from the game. We all know damn well he's not likely to get replaced, so why now? Moreover, I feel he was disingenuous about his justification for continuing to vote me after #280 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.280). His justification for it, in #283 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.283), was extremely weak, and it leads me to believe that he couldn't find anything else to go with and was just tunneling the bandwagon out of scummy laziness.

This will be my last post in this game. I just F*CKING ASKED FOR REPLACEMENT. If that's not justification for lurking, then nothing is.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 04:15:51 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Sox is probably lurking around to throw in a random vote to tip the game into a scum win, and I don't feel that opting for a replacement when the heat gets turned up in any way absolves you from the game. We all know damn well he's not likely to get replaced, so why now? Moreover, I feel he was disingenuous about his justification for continuing to vote me after #280 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.280). His justification for it, in #283 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.283), was extremely weak, and it leads me to believe that he couldn't find anything else to go with and was just tunneling the bandwagon out of scummy laziness.

He asked for a replacement. That's not lurking, that's a newb scum trying to deflect attention in the worst way possible. unvote So now I say Kamin / Vodot scum team.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2012, 04:18:25 pm

One of the Knights whistle, his tone echoing down the stonework passage.

"Hear that? It goes on and on and on!"

"Just like what we're doing right now?"

"What are you implying?"

"Walking."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (1) - Kamin
• Kamin (2) - Jim Groovester, Nerjin
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: wsoxfan, vodot


The hour of the Rat.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

87 hours,41 minutes and 28 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Used once per browser, every other attempt seems to fail until...some time later.

Orange names are up for replacement.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:10:47 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 04:15:51 pm

He asked for a replacement. That's not lurking, that's a newb scum trying to deflect attention in the worst way possible. unvote So now I say Kamin / Vodot scum team.

So you think he's trying to deflect attention, too? Then you voted the wrong person.

The reason I came to my conclusion is because Vodot wanted a replacement too, but he still ended up doing things like voting, and only later said he'd stick it out. Not really completely unreasonable to assume Sox could do the same thing.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 05:23:52 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:10:47 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 04:15:51 pm

He asked for a replacement. That's not lurking, that's a newb scum trying to deflect attention in the worst way possible. unvote So now I say Kamin / Vodot scum team.

So you think he's trying to deflect attention, too? Then you voted the wrong person.

The reason I came to my conclusion is because Vodot wanted a replacement too, but he still ended up doing things like voting, and only later said he'd stick it out. Not really completely unreasonable to assume Sox could do the same thing.

I mistyped there. What I mean to say is "That isn't lurking. That's a pretty scummy way to try to deflect attention from yourself."

Vodot isn't Sox. Their circumstances, I'd be willing to bet, are entirely different so the same outcome wouldn't happen.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:29:54 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 05:23:52 pm

Vodot isn't Sox. Their circumstances, I'd be willing to bet, are entirely different so the same outcome wouldn't happen.

And how could you know this to be true without being privy to some sort of special information, pray tell?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 05:31:53 pm

That's your defense? How could I know if their circumstances were different? Well I don't know, but I feel that it's pretty likely that their circumstances are different.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:34:50 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 05:31:53 pm

Well I don't know, but I feel that it's pretty likely that their circumstances are different.

And this is your defense? Absolutely fascinating, Nerjin.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: vodot on September 27, 2012, 08:01:25 pm

I was right the first time, guys. Requesting Replacement.  This will be my final post in this thread.  I am really truly sorry about the timing, but I have to do this for RL reasons. 

If you're interested in my current, half-way through D3 thoughts, I'm sorry but I don't really have much to offer. I'm more or less completely lost. I have been putting off and putting off a serious reread, and I realize now that joining this game was biting off more than I can chew, even for one good post per night.

When it was good it was a blast, which was most of the time. Thanks everyone!

Jim, Shake, I learned a lot, thanks!

Tiruin, awesome flavor.

Good luck!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:04:24 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 27, 2012, 08:01:25 pm

I was right the first time, guys. Requesting Replacement.  This will be my final post in this thread.  I am really truly sorry about the timing, but I have to do this for RL reasons. 

If you're interested in my current, half-way through D3 thoughts, I'm sorry but I don't really have much to offer. I'm more or less completely lost. I have been putting off and putting off a serious reread, and I realize now that joining this game was biting off more than I can chew, even for one good post per night.

When it was good it was a blast, which was most of the time. Thanks everyone!

Jim, Shake, I learned a lot, thanks!

Tiruin, awesome flavor.

Good luck!

See ya man. It was a lot of fun to play with you. Hope you get to try mafia again someday. You were a blast and a half.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2012, 08:17:40 pm

Quote

Everyone's replacing out

But whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

It's lylo. You mean to tell me that none of you can hold out for a few days longer and finish this game strong?

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

My top suspect is Sox, did you happen to conveniently skip my last post? And hard to grill him now that he's not saying a word, eh?

He asked to be replaced after you declared you suspected him.

Why weren't you grilling him before then?

Oh, right, because you were too busy kissing vodot's ass and lurking.

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Directing me to a post where you ask rhetorical questions and put on a show is not asking ME anything, nor does it prove me wrong. It's simple misdirection, and that's scumtastic.

Apparently you think you only have to respond to direct questions.

This assumption will serve you poorly in future games.

I think I make some pretty damning points. You're going to let me get away with making them and provide no counter? Suit yourself.

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

Sox is probably lurking around to throw in a random vote to tip the game into a scum win, and I don't feel that opting for a replacement when the heat gets turned up in any way absolves you from the game. We all know damn well he's not likely to get replaced, so why now? Moreover, I feel he was disingenuous about his justification for continuing to vote me after #280 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.280). His justification for it, in #283 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.283), was extremely weak, and it leads me to believe that he couldn't find anything else to go with and was just tunneling the bandwagon out of scummy laziness.

What.

Seriously.

This is the best argument you can summon up to vote wsoxfan?

Your best argument for him being scum is that he's being a horrendous sportsman and replacing out in bad faith?

That's bullshit. Complete and total.

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:29:54 pm

And how could you know this to be true without being privy to some sort of special information, pray tell?

This is something that is off fucking limits.

We will not pry into the private lives of players in order to verify that their request for a replacement is justified. If it's requested, you should assume that it's done in good faith.

Which is why it is mind boggingly ridiculous that you would throw an FoS at Nerjin for believing that it was in good faith. Not just ridiculous, but scummy as well.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:20:07 pm

Um... Jim I have a question. When Sox and Vodot replacements show up... How do we judge them? We have no prior count on them and the plain fact of the matter is that they'll just claim they don't know why who did what anyway. Also is this situation common?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2012, 08:22:10 pm

For Beginner's Mafias it's horribly common.

But you highlight the many problems that arise when a player replaces out. There's no good solution to it.

Shit comes up, of course, but if you make it to lylo, please finish it out.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:24:25 pm

But doesn't that place us at a disadvantage? Especially considering they may panic like I did last BM when I replaced in and make a HUGE mistake [doctor claim...] Ugh... Replacement stuff is going to get us screwed over isn't it?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2012, 08:30:56 pm

Generally, yes.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:33:10 pm

Well hopefully Kamin will flip which'll give us another day. We could always get lucky. Right?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 08:49:42 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2012, 08:17:40 pm

This is something that is off fucking limits.

We will not pry into the private lives of players in order to verify that their request for a replacement is justified. If it's requested, you should assume that it's done in good faith.

Which is why it is mind boggingly ridiculous that you would throw an FoS at Nerjin for believing that it was in good faith. Not just ridiculous, but scummy as well.

Says the man that told me ANYTHING can be used in Mafia. Nice.

Well, this is pretty much bullshit now. With everybody switching out all the time, there's no point in bothering anyway. Whoever's next, just vote to lynch me and end the game. I'm done.

Shorten.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:51:20 pm

No need to be rude... Is there a way to counter-act his vote to shorten? I think we should wait until the replacements show up or one of the originals manages to get some time.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 27, 2012, 09:10:19 pm

You can oppose it if you want.

Two more people would have to shorten before it would go through though.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 09:11:46 pm

Oh okay then. I assume that means opposing would be redundant as you probably won't want to shorten just yet.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - TWO Replacements Requested!
Post by: Tiruin on September 27, 2012, 11:09:01 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 27, 2012, 08:01:25 pm

I was right the first time, guys. Requesting Replacement.  This will be my final post in this thread.  I am really truly sorry about the timing, but I have to do this for RL reasons. 

D:

"Wh- hey look at Map!"

"What's wrong?"

"He's trying to be all emotional as he can't drink or eat."

"Awwww~"

"That was just a D. With your bread crumbs all over. I'm not crying deep inside. No I'm not..."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• wsoxfan (1) - Kamin
• Kamin (2) - Jim Groovester, Nerjin
• vodot (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: wsoxfan, vodot


The hour of the Rat.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

80 hours,51 minutes and 12 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 1

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Used once per browser, every other attempt seems to fail until...some time later.

Orange names are up for replacement.))

Edit: Erp, votecount wronged. Sorry for that.

Kamin is voting for Sox'

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - TWO Replacements Requested!
Post by: Pranz on September 28, 2012, 07:22:18 am

Did everyone miss i applied for being replacement?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2012, 09:59:06 am

Quote from: Pranz on September 28, 2012, 07:22:18 am

Did everyone miss i applied for being replacement?

"Oh dear."

"What now?"

"Your voice, sir Knight."

"What's with it?"

"Err...what is in this drink anyway?"

"Your blood."

"Tastes pretty salty, I'm still parched."

"...How much longer until we get there?"

The leader holds up his fist without a word, the index finger and thumb extended to form an 'L'.

"Oooooh, perfect! Right around the corner!"

The sound of a palm hitting metal echoed throughout the passage.

Pranz has replaced wsoxfan
penngo009 has replaced vodot

"He's the only one wearing a helmet, too. And you said helmets were only for fashion. Hah!"

---

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• Pranz (1) - Kamin
• Kamin (2) - Jim Groovester, Nerjin
• penngo009 (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Pranz, penngo009


The hour of the Rat.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

70 hours, 02 minutes and 45 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 1

2 votes needed to extend the day
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Orange names are up for replacement.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 28, 2012, 02:04:24 pm

So Mr./Mrs. Pranz... WHat are your thoughts? Who seems most likely scum to you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Pranz on September 28, 2012, 03:14:22 pm

Greetings. Short answer: You. In the few posts I've seen you are mostly grasping at straws (regarding your vodot vote) and some of your posts don't have much substance overall; mostly pointing out the situation obviously, I guess this is what you call filler posts? Quotes and stuff will come later when I have taken a good read out of all this.

Kamin plays very strange and not beneficial for town, but that doesn't mean he's scum neccesarily. Still, he's high on the list of suspects in this time when we are short in numbers.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Nerjin on September 28, 2012, 04:07:22 pm

Could you be a bit more specific? In Mafia [to my understanding] this sort of thing requires quotes of some sort. I don't know for sure... Ask Jim.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2012, 05:46:23 pm

((Edited the votecount and playercount above. _{Too tired to make any comprehensive quips for the votecount.} No change in votes, only the players.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: penngo009 on September 28, 2012, 08:48:06 pm

Well hello everyone, it seems like I'm replacing! :)
First of all Extend until I say not. I'd like to hear everyone's reasoning for who to vote who. This just helps me in catching up, thanks. I do go through the thread, but you only remember so much of what you read in it anyways. :P

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem - One Replacement Requested!
Post by: Pranz on September 29, 2012, 12:01:01 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:33:10 pm

Well hopefully Kamin will flip which'll give us another day. We could always get lucky. Right?

Things like this, always asking IC excessively, buddying. Also, you say you hope to "get lucky" on Kamin, like he's set in stone to lynch today; it's just bad luck if he isn't scum. I say you're careless with your votes, with no real reasoning behind them.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 25, 2012, 05:07:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Nerjin, here's an idea: Who is more likely than you to be Kamin's scummate, and why?

I think it's most likely you. You've seen how badly he's set himself up by being a bad player and now your bussing him to make everyone else see you as an untainted saint for ridding them of the evil scum of Kamin. However I think you're scum-telling as opposed to Kamin's awful gameplay style.

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:03:08 pm

unshorten. 

Actually, I think it is better to let this one play out.

Two minutes after you wanted to shorten? Did you even think that move over? Why were you so eager to shorten in the first place?  It seems like a foolish move to make during LYLO. You say in #337 that you are trying to win quickly. But the only person who can be sure that they win if Kamin is lynched is a scum. After all if we lynch kamin and he is scum than we still have one more to get. But if he isn't scum and you are then by shortening you win. I'm pretty sure that's what you're getting at Vodot

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 24, 2012, 08:59:50 pm

-snip-

Nerjin, give me your read on Kamin.

I'm thinking Kamin may be scum. He is giving tells but some of those could be considered just a bad player move. I'm still not 100% convinced that he is scum though. But he is my second pick.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 04:15:51 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

*kamin bullshit*
He asked for a replacement. That's not lurking, that's a newb scum trying to deflect attention in the worst way possible. unvote So now I say Kamin / Vodot scum team.

This is where it gets real interesting. You first say vodot is scum because he wants to shorten and lynch Kamin, essentially saying "If kamins not scum you are". Since you weren't really sure Kamin were scum, you voted vodot. That's fine, but then you go on and votes Kamin for...what again? Because he gives a shitty reason to vote? You haven't said what your "tells" were on him. Continuing, you say VODOT is his partner, but in your previous post vodot was only a suspect because there was a possibility of Kamin being innocent.

You're scum Nerjin

1. What is your reasoning for FoSing vodot?

2. What is your tells on Kamin?

And a third one for Jim, you asked the same question regarding Kamin to Nerjin, why haven't you pressed him more? What do you think of Nerjin buddying you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Pranz on September 29, 2012, 12:02:31 pm

^failed at quoting, the last text that appears to be quoted from Nerjin was posted by me and meant to be outside quoting frames. Including copy:

This is where it gets real interesting. You first say vodot is scum because he wants to shorten and lynch Kamin, essentially saying "If kamins not scum you are". Since you weren't really sure Kamin were scum, you voted vodot. That's fine, but then you go on and votes Kamin for...what again? Because he gives a shitty reason to vote? You haven't said what your "tells" were on him. Continuing, you say VODOT is his partner, but in your previous post vodot was only a suspect because there was a possibility of Kamin being innocent.

You're scum Nerjin

1. What is your reasoning for FoSing vodot?

2. What is your tells on Kamin?

And a third one for Jim, you asked the same question regarding Kamin to Nerjin, why haven't you pressed him more? What do you think of Nerjin buddying you?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: penngo009 on September 29, 2012, 07:56:07 pm

Hey, Jim I would wish to see what you have to say here. First of all, I want to know why under the assumption you're town. Why weren't you killed before the other ICs? And who do you think is scum, and why?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 29, 2012, 11:56:22 pm

How about you read the fucking thread.

Let me direct you to posts where I've, amazingly, surprisingly, already answered those questions.

Quote from: penngo009 on September 29, 2012, 07:56:07 pm

Why weren't you killed before the other ICs?

Answered here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3643379#msg3643379).

Quote from: penngo009 on September 29, 2012, 07:56:07 pm

And who do you think is scum, and why?

Answered here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3637890#msg3637890), and additionally here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3622004#msg3622004).

So, basically, you were totally lazy, didn't bother to read the thread, and expected people to hand you cases.

Do your due diligence and read through the thread and come back with an actual case.

Quote from: Pranz on September 29, 2012, 12:02:31 pm

And a third one for Jim, you asked the same question regarding Kamin to Nerjin, why haven't you pressed him more? What do you think of Nerjin buddying you?

Buddying? Where?

You're right that he never actually answered my question about what he found about Kamin suspicious. I found his vague answer for why he suspected Kamin scummy enough that it made me think they were partners. (Scum, especially inexperienced scum, will declare token suspicions towards their partners so that in the event that their partners are lynched they won't look silly if they say otherwise.) The point of the question about his read on Kamin wasn't to get a list of the things he found suspicious about Kamin, the point was to show that he had no such list. I.E., he answered exactly the way I wanted him to based on my gut feeling at the time, and the purpose of the question was served regardless of followup, so I actually didn't really care all that much what he said afterwards.

Him changing his vote from vodot to Kamin doesn't significantly affect my opinion, and it provides no new topics I can grill him on. Questions like, "Why are you bussing your partner?" are predictably useless and I can't fault him for his reasons for voting Kamin that he stated since I do believe that Kamin is incredibly scummy for them.

I do think he's scum, but I want to see Kamin lynched more right now. His flip will either confirm or deny my suspicions about Nerjin, and in the case that my suspicions are denied the game will be over anyway.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 30, 2012, 07:36:05 am

"Alright, refreshments aside, does anyone want to hear a story to pass the time?"

The Knights were intrigued. This was the first time their leader attempted to give a reprieve to their deliberations. At the sound of silence, the leader nodded and stopped the party by an alcove, setting his torch on the wall rest while gesturing like a minstrel.

"Let me begin."

'It all began four score ago, when the final elimination of the Templars were had. The citizenry upheld  the belief that the catastrophes of the time were not due to their hand (magic and sorcery and whatnot) but their leaders -- the Nobility -- spurned them on in the persecutions and destruction of their fortresses and bastions. Apparently, their hold on power was threatened by the Templar presence.

'Now the Templars, or Temple Knights, as they were officially known as, had no qualm against the commonfolk and thus, couldn't mount a counter-attack or even a reasonable defense for their own sakes, resorting to wordplay, philosophies and the ideologies of the time then. It is to be known that a Templar knight is usually schooled in the art of linguistics, literature, lore and economics -- what we know today as banking. The former three were supposed to aid them in any path they travel, whether it be in local or foreign lands, as the Templars were a benevolent faction, dedicated to the well-being of the realm. Nevertheless, words against pitchforks and torches on open ground did not mix well.

'You may be asking yourselves, "Then why did they attack our most high Order if their cause was good?", yes? This is where I come in. I know how their tactics work, I know how their codes are spoken. And yet I bring you here, in the Mountain Fane, constructed at the waning year of the Golden Age -- the last years of the Templars, for the single reason in that they still exist.

'Cutting to the point, this sanctum was made for all sorts of people. Refugees, criminals, convicts and generally anyone who needed a safe place to rest. Yet you've heard the screams, yes? In every place of safety, there is also a rite of Judgement, varying from location to location.

'We have the usual amenities of a Castle, you name it. Dungeon, pallisade, gatehouse, Keep...all these are made for convenience, but what I'm about to show you all will change your worlds.

'The Inner Chambers, the foundations of the Fane and the roots of the end eighty years prior. This was built by the Templars, themselves, as their last refuge and a fall-back position. It is said that the stones that we tread on hold their vengeful spirits: both from unjust issuance of justice, or other causes unknown -- as a superstition, of course, but one to think about.

"Now come, rest has been made and the torch flickers. Make haste."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• Pranz (1) - Kamin
• Kamin (2) - Jim Groovester, Nerjin
• penngo009 (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (1) - penngo009

Not voting: Pranz


The hour of the Owl.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

25 hours, 34 minutes and 27 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 1
Shorten requests: 1

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day
Current status: 1/1

Praise be, for Think's LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html)! Used once per browser, every other attempt seems to fail until...some time later.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: penngo009 on September 30, 2012, 12:28:33 pm

Unvote, so Jim do you think(assuming that we lynch a mafia) that you would be killed during night? And if so what evidence would you leave behind to help the rest of the townees find the other mafia member?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: webadict on September 30, 2012, 01:57:22 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 29, 2012, 11:56:22 pm

Blah Blah Blah

Jim...

You're the IC. You should be motivating the town to play, regardless of alignment. Do YOUR job before you lecture someone about doing theirs, you condescending douchebag.

Because, last I checked, this game is about letting people learn how to play the game. Not being a whiny trite. So, instead of complaining about how you have to do so much, try doing your basic requirements first. Because I'll take over for you. I mean, aren't you trying to show exemplary town performance? Where is that?

Get back to work, you half-witted layabout.

And before anyone says I can't comment about anything because I'm dead or whatever stupid thing you're about to say, my goal is to make sure people learn. If they're not learning correctly, then I will make it my job to teach them. Got it? Good. Let's see less lurking and more playing.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Jim Groovester on September 30, 2012, 05:05:09 pm

Quote from: penngo009 on September 30, 2012, 12:28:33 pm

Unvote, so Jim do you think(assuming that we lynch a mafia) that you would be killed during night? And if so what evidence would you leave behind to help the rest of the townees find the other mafia member?

This question is almost entirely irrelevant since it's lylo. The task at hand is to lynch scum, else the town loses.

Why are you worrying about whether I'm going to get night killed and what I'm going to do? Further, why am I the only person you're talking to and why don't you have suspicions or a case yet?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: penngo009 on September 30, 2012, 06:23:57 pm

Well it's pretty obvious if you're town you're going to die tonight following the pattern of the ICs dying. So assuming that you're town, you would still wish us to win? Following your next answer I'm starting to doubt you're town in the first place, after all you don't seem to be motivated in my eyes, which I'm not very experience with beginners mafia but you don't seem to be caring a whole heck of a lot. My suspicion is you, and I'll go find evidence later. Right now I just don't have time.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 30, 2012, 07:02:52 pm

Was my read on Kamin too vague? Sorry. I thought when you asked for a "read" you just meant my basic thoughts. Could you gimme a bit to find the stuff?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on September 30, 2012, 07:41:41 pm

Quote from: Pranz on September 29, 2012, 12:01:01 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 08:33:10 pm

Well hopefully Kamin will flip which'll give us another day. We could always get lucky. Right?

Things like this, always asking IC excessively, buddying. Also, you say you hope to "get lucky" on Kamin, like he's set in stone to lynch today; it's just bad luck if he isn't scum. I say you're careless with your votes, with no real reasoning behind them.

Ic’s are there to be asked questions. How is it buddying if I take advantage of that? He’s the only one left. The only one I can ask.
Well let’s look at the facts on your second point. #354 is my main reasoning for the vote switch. I find the fact that he attacks a man who CANNOT DEFEND himself pretty scummy. Sox was leaving the game so Kamin saw a weak defenceless victim who he could accuse of lurking and what have you. Sure Vodot has made some tells [check my earlier posts on the subject. I’d direct you to them but I get the feeling that you haven’t read the entire thread.]

Quote from: Nerjin on September 25, 2012, 05:07:53 pm

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:01:10 pm

Nerjin, here's an idea: Who is more likely than you to be Kamin's scummate, and why?

I think it's most likely you. You've seen how badly he's set himself up by being a bad player and now your bussing him to make everyone else see you as an untainted saint for ridding them of the evil scum of Kamin. However I think you're scum-telling as opposed to Kamin's awful gameplay style.

Quote from: vodot on September 24, 2012, 07:03:08 pm

unshorten. 

Actually, I think it is better to let this one play out.

Two minutes after you wanted to shorten? Did you even think that move over? Why were you so eager to shorten in the first place?  It seems like a foolish move to make during LYLO. You say in #337 that you are trying to win quickly. But the only person who can be sure that they win if Kamin is lynched is a scum. After all if we lynch kamin and he is scum than we still have one more to get. But if he isn't scum and you are then by shortening you win. I'm pretty sure that's what you're getting at Vodot

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 24, 2012, 08:59:50 pm

-snip-

Nerjin, give me your read on Kamin.

I'm thinking Kamin may be scum. He is giving tells but some of those could be considered just a bad player move. I'm still not 100% convinced that he is scum though. But he is my second pick.

Quote from: Nerjin on September 27, 2012, 04:15:51 pm

Quote from: Kamin on September 27, 2012, 05:43:27 am

*kamin bullshit*
He asked for a replacement. That's not lurking, that's a newb scum trying to deflect attention in the worst way possible. unvote So now I say Kamin / Vodot scum team.

Quote from: Pranz on September 29, 2012, 12:02:31 pm

^failed at quoting, the last text that appears to be quoted from Nerjin was posted by me and meant to be outside quoting frames. Including copy:

This is where it gets real interesting. You first say vodot is scum because he wants to shorten and lynch Kamin, essentially saying "If kamins not scum you are". Since you weren't really sure Kamin were scum, you voted vodot. That's fine, but then you go on and votes Kamin for...what again? Because he gives a shitty reason to vote? You haven't said what your "tells" were on him. Continuing, you say VODOT is his partner, but in your previous post vodot was only a suspect because there was a possibility of Kamin being innocent.

You're scum Nerjin

1. What is your reasoning for FoSing vodot?

2. What is your tells on Kamin?

And a third one for Jim, you asked the same question regarding Kamin to Nerjin, why haven't you pressed him more? What do you think of Nerjin buddying you?

1.   I am FoSing him because I think he’s scum. Well that would be Penngo now wouldn’t it? I think Vodot/Penngo is scum as well but the whole “attack a defencless man” bit is just too scummy to overlook.
2.   Well let me direct your attention [as well as Jim’s] to a few posts made by other people so I don’t Wall of Text [have I already?] because I feel they’ve said it better than I could. While at first I thought several of the points could be explained away after a bit more careful examination I find that they’re probably right. Posts #247 [parts I do disagree with but most is fine] and #267. Basically he does a lot of weak cases, OMGUS, WIFoM, Lurking, and plus the part that threw it over the edge, accusing someone of using “personal troubles” as an excuse to lurk.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on September 30, 2012, 10:46:45 pm

Only footsteps could be heard, as the group proceeded in single file down yet another winding passage.

"He's hiding something about this place. Don't you see how he ended the story?"

"I wouldn't blame him. It's been a long journey until here, and boredom tends to dull the sense of time, Sire."

"Humph. At least he didn't say anything about the shadows and the lurkers."

"Hmm? Is that another folktale or summ'at?"

"Aye." The leader said, cutting all chatter with his deep voice. Whether he heard the whole conversation or the last part of it is uncertain.

"Stories say that even in the day, there are shades who plague the thinking of the living. Scions of magical birth, and a dubious end, any coherent thinking is destroyed by one afflicted by a Shade, and any conversation or flow of notion is broken -- Shades which exist in places where the veil between the living and dead is lifted. This is my guess on what is interfering with us."

"Shades, Sire?"

"Aye, lurking in the dark. As the old adage goes, 'See no evil, tell no evil; hear no evil, speak no evil.' No doubt I also suspect that the dead are watching us as we speak, if we...are speaking, that is."

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• Pranz (1) - Kamin
• Kamin (2) - Jim Groovester, Nerjin
• penngo009 (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Pranz, penngo009


The hour of the Owl.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

9 hours, 13 minutes and 28 seconds from the time of this post until day end!

Extension requests: 1
Shorten requests: 1

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

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((NOTE: If 1 extension and 1 shorten is made, the request is nullified as said in the OP.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 06:37:14 am

((One hour and twenty minutes remaining.))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 07:57:32 am

Unvote vote Pranz

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 07:59:14 am

Shorten

Title: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 08:05:09 am

"I can't take this silence! We've been moving through these blasted corridors and arched passages, including the vaulted hallways for- what, hours?"

"Calm down, lad! We've not even reached the Chambers yet and you're acting all fidgety!"

"Our leader speaks the truth! I can hear them!"

"Oh, I can hear them too. And I'm wearing a fake mustache and know how to dance the Tango with my left arm behind my back."

The leader stops and turns around with a bemused expression. "I- what? Bah, Map! Mark Sir Rynhart. Only a Templar would shy away from what he hath constructed! The dead will speak, and judge you by your word!"

The knight stepped back in apprehension as you all gaze at him, feeling the power of your leader's words echo on. A feeling of dread descends upon you all. You feel a certain tension.

Sir Rynhart bolts through the nearest passageway, and you try to follow but are stopped by the arm of your leader- how did he get in front of you again?

"Leave him be. We're near our location. Only four left, but that will do finely."

~Mafia Victory!~

---

Quote from: Vote standings:

• Nerjin (0) -
• Pranz (2) - Kamin, Nerjin
• Kamin (1) - Jim Groovester,
• penngo009 (0) - 
• Jim Groovester (0) -

Not voting: Pranz, penngo009


The hour of the Owl.

((Day 3 will end at October 1, 2012 [Monday]  9:00 pm [GMT//UTC +8]

0:00:00

Judgement has been invoked.

Extension requests: 1
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---

Pranz has been lynched! He was a Vanilla Townie!

Quote

Sir Henry "wsoxfan//Pranz" Rynhart

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie))

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 08:23:37 am

As requested by one of the players. Background music! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gosY-UrpHcA)

It is strange.

Strange, that despite everything you have gone through, only four remain. From the nine that were chosen, it would have been a peaceful trial, with words given and lost as the only casualty. Yet death leers it's ugly head, and this time, you weren't ready.

A few more steps, and the journey ends. You find yourselves in a vast chamber flanked with columns of smooth towering granite, depicting engravings of an earlier age. At the middle of the chamber lies an altar, somehow lit by it's own existence in a radiant blue.

As you approach the altar, you hear the tortured sound of metal echo behind you, and see the only exit shut itself from the outside, but your leader beckons on, pointing towards the altar.

Sir Locke is the first to speak, holding up Map and tapping the altar. "This is the place, then? The final deliberation?"

The leader replies. "Oh no, you're quite safe now. You can discard the wreath."

"Wreath?"

"The one you call, 'Map'. Notice that he has the feel of parchment, yet at the end of everyday, a name is marked in red? He is my pet. My companion. My tool. He tried to warn you on the first day, but I made sure that you'd take no other clue than that."

The leader smiles, and you see two of your companions have not reached the altar.

"Sir Creyn, Sir Zatheras. What are you two doing? Explain this nonsense!"

"Ahh, Sir Theras. Despite your wisdom, you couldn't prevent the death of your friends."

"I- what? You two are the Templars? Impossible!"

"We did not kill them," 'Nerjin', known as Creyn, replies. "And this is where you die."

"This is under peace! We wish you no harm in this manner!"

'Kamin', known as Zatheras, hefted his Morningstar as he pointed at the leader. "Yet it is his."

You all turn to see the very man who led you to this place: to the Fane and through all the tedious days and nights here, standing behind the altar. An aura with colors unlike anything ever seen enveloping his body.

"Yes, my friends. I am the wizard, hardly thought you would've noticed with all the clues."

"We know, well, knew. But this is hardly the case anymore, is it?" Kamin replies.

penngo009, known as Locke, brings out his sword and points it at the two. "It is the case! You will kill us in cold blood? Like- like you did for the rest?"

"It will not be I who did so, sire." Nerjin said, "My friend watches over me, and we will return absolved."

With that, the two rush the remaining survivors of the Iridescent Flame, easily disarming them and knocking them out with the haft of their weapons.

Turning to the leader, Kamin speaks. "The deal is done. No more pretending. No more lies. You stop the killing, and return to us our promise from long ago."

"What promise?"

"That one? About memory and whatnot?"

"Oh, right."

The leader steps over the fallen bodies of penngo009, and Jim Groovester, now known as Theras, and sweeps his hands over their temples, muttering silently.

"It is done, carry them back to the surface and reclaim your reward. Nothing shall stop you, for no man will remember."

~~~

The day comes, and the crowd watches on as the Marshall and his men attack the doors of the Keep of the Mountain Fane.

"Harder, ye dogs! The door may be locked from the inside, but we will have the traitorous scum soon enough! Harder!"

"Halt!"

Sir Rynhart's voice calms the crown as an oaken beam is lifted from the inside and the doors are opened, showing him and another -- Sir Xavier.

"We have been attacked, milord," he says, holding his colleague's limp body. "Hundreds...no, thousands of shadows coming from the walls. Nearly drove me mad, but I managed to get out of the hellhole-"

"Hold it, what hellhole? There is no passage anywhere in the fane which crosses the hard bedrock which nestles it."

"A- That passage! There-"

"No need, Sir Knight."

All eyes are drawn to four knights emerging from the Great Hall, two carrying the other two.

"It has been dealt with. The shadows were nothing but the spirits of justice. We have found the perpetrators, and they have been dealt with. Sir Alarei, if you may, return us to our standing."

As if mystified, the Marshal draws his sword. Drawing it in such a way that no ill will is meant as he takes the two and blesses the rest.

"Ye have done well, knights. I had thought the trials be lost, and had a whole regiment ready to charge into wherever ye had gone, but it seems ye are now safe, aye? Thy leader, where is he?"

"He was...the culprit. We sealed the passage, gave him the Amontillado treatment. A befitting way of ending this."

The Marshal nods as he gestures to Sir Rynhart, ordering him to sheath his blade and help with the festivities to follow.

The day draws to a close after a long period of revelry and mirth, where the bodies of the slain are put to rest in their final place just outside the Mountain Fane.

Quote

Ye see a memorial, made out of the finest marble we can afford. On it lies the names of those who have been tried, and died at this momentous occasion.

Sir George "markressler//webadict" Mendel
- Had an herb, lost his word. His life was forfeit. He shall be missed.

Sir Wilhelm "Shakerag" Conricht
- Of finest blade, lost his spade. He is buried in the grounds he lived in.

Sir Richard "Wrex" Gavorn
- The keys of knowledge, life in thy hands. He lives on in our memories.

May ye be remembered, forsooth, Justice has claimed thine lives in the conflict. Yet hope shines forth and Providence is deemed to be determined in truth.

The rays of the setting sun cover the land, and in the distance on King's Road, a carriage moves. It's driver being one of the merchants servicing the Fane, while it's passengers being the two knights who arrived, victorious.

"So, Nerjin. Sounds like a mighty fine sobriquet. When we meet the King, it will be good to know that he expects our presence."

"Aye, I actually had it in for ye. What happened anyway?"

"It was our leader, he was the wizard who had caused all this -- controlling the ways of the land while keeping an eye out for potential sources of power. Power by which, you had."

"I killed them?"

"Technically. We did leave that old heretic though. I managed to jam the lock of the doors as he was coming back up, explaining why he didn't, actually."

"Well, all's good in the end, I suppose. At least those knights had what was coming to them. A good burial and an honorable word from the Marshal."

"Are ye ready?" the coachman said. "The Capital is on the horizon!"

"Dariush! You old dog. We know that!" Nerjin said. "You were the juice vendor all along. Can't say I love your work, but it seems it did the job!"

No reply was made, but the smile of the Spymaster. No blood shed but a day's work done.

Sir Thead whistles a merry tune in tandem with the horses' trot, for they were headed for the King himself, and there was nobody to stop them.

~The End~

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 08:24:53 am

Scum chat! (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FGSrjgaFAMN)

Dead chat! (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe) - which I probably shouldn't have put up due to...well.

Spoiler: Cast of XXXVI (click to show/hide)

Mafia

Quote

Sir Gregoir "Kamin" Zatheras

You are the Templar Chaplain {Mafia Roleblocker}, a pious and devout man to the memories of the long forgotten past. You recall the times where peace reigned throughout the realm for years, undisturbed by the problems today. But this was then; your people have dwindled throughout the years, replaced by these so-called knights in the quest for growth and prosperity. A new hand rules over the realm, and you and your followers bask in it's shadow.

However, not all hope is lost. Your piety to the reigning diety has granted you powers that these new orders cannot fully comprehend. Being able to invoke their power when needed, you can disable any authority that stands in your way -- whether it be physical or magical force, none can stand against the will of a righteous man except for Justice, herself.

You are here to ensure that your quest for vengeance and redemption will be fulfilled, having breached the confines of the Chapterhouse of the highest order in the land, it would only take a few more crucial steps to ensure victory. Whether it be by the sword, or by the pen, you know you shall succeed.

((You are of the Mafia Faction! Being the Roleblocker, you are able to Roleblock any individual who you deem worthy of being disabled for the night. The roleblock stops any action of the target from occurring. You may speak with your allies in the scumchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FGSrjgaFAMN))

Quote

Sir Jurith "Nerjin" Creyn

You are the Templar Grandmaster {Mafia Godfather}, one of the last of your order. Your order has been plagued by slander and conspiracies, burdened by the load of lies and deceit. Your followers are few, and dispersed throughout the land, powerless to take on the multitudes around them in your quest.

But you, are alive, and together with your ally, have managed to infiltrate the Chapterhouse of the highest current order in the land -- the Iridescent Flame. Together, with your specialized training and with the aid of a secret hand, you know that no source of information can betray you in your quest for vengeance.

Your training in subterfuge has proven a boon to your survival, being able to speak with your allies in secret along with personal defense lessons in the arts of swordplay.

((You are of the Mafia Faction! Being the Godfather, you are immune to Town Cop results -- showing up as Town to any inspects laid on you. You may speak with your allies in the scumchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FGSrjgaFAMN))

Quote

Sir Darius Thead

You are the Templar Spymaster {Mafia IC}, tasked with the overwatch of the infiltration in the keep. You have always been on the opposing side, only choosing to remain with the heretics until the time is right. However, due to the fact that you are known as a neutral party, you may not harm any of the other knights in their deliberations but can advise those under your tutelage through the noble act of subterfuge.

((You have volunteered to be the Mafia IC!))

---

Town and other Factions!

Quote

Sir Henry "wsoxfan//Pranz" Rynhart

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie))

Quote

Sir Leon "kingfisher1112" Xavier

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie))

Quote

Sir Theodore "vodot//penngo009" Locke

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, one of the recent neophytes in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your oath of chastity.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie))

Quote

Sir George "markressler//webadict" Mendel

You are the Apothecary of the Iridescent Flame {Town Doctor}, a noble and trusted man in the eyes of the commoners and of your fellow knights. Your knowledge on herbal lore and treatment of the wounded have been crucial to the survival of your order, being able to heal the most grevous of wounds and maladys. Your trustworthiness has given you free passage of the order halls during the hours after twilight, due to recent events.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Protect any individual, except yourself from the Mafia Nightkill, thereby saving the target if the same target was singled out for death during the Night.))

Quote

Sir Richard "Wrex" Gavorn

You are the Quartermaster of the Iridescent Flame {Town Cop}, one of the elders of the archaic monastic order. You carry the lock and keys to the archives and librariums of your people, and have always been entrusted with keeping the dishes clean. Your oath to the King and to your lord has given you the freedom to browse the archives every night in your quest for vindication due to recent events, and though you have been an influential individual in the presence of nobility for most of your life, your only weapons here are your tongue and your keys.

((You are of the Town Faction! Every Night you can choose to Inspect any individual to discover their alignment {which will read: Town or Mafia}. You cannot inspect yourself.))

Quote

Sir Edmund "Jim Groovester" Theras

You are a Knight of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, an elder in the monastic order. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your wisdom gained from your status as a noble.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie

You are an IC!))

Quote

Sir Wilhelm "Shakerag" Conricht

You are a Knight Banneret of the Iridescent Flame {Normal Town}, an elder and holder of the order's flag and status. You have always been known to be loyal to the King and to his vassals, now having the power to speak your own in their presence. However, due to recent events, your only weapon now would be your tongue and your wisdom in the war of words.

((You are of the Town Faction! You cannot act at Night, being a Vanilla//Normal Townie

You are an IC!))

Quote

Sir Devon "Bookthras" Alarai

You are a retired Templar Knight, having served your duty and purpose before the fall of your order. Your name is compared to the legends of your day, having survived the Eastern war with nothing but your tongue, lacking a sword and forgetting your armor. Now, you hear rumors of sabotage and some sort of failed coup happening in the realm, more specifically, an attack on the highest order in the land -- the Order of the Iridescent Flame.

For days you journey to the place where the trials would be held. An aged sanctuary on a mountain, the peasantry greet you by name as you join in with the groups in their ascent.

Now that the trials have begun (and you, satisfied with the ongoings), you pick out certain figures in the list of suspects. Figures that you find, can still speak with in the old common tongue. Your trained eye easily picks out the differences in the knights' gait and posture, their mannerisms and involuntary signs. You wonder how nobody else could discern the innocent from the guilty with this information.

Unfortunately, you know that your name is held high in the eyes of the people, especially by the King himself. Win or lose, you cannot directly aid the Templars in their plot and must remain neutral.

But you can speak to them, obviously. (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FGSrjgaFAMN)

Due to your extensive knowledge and lore of the land, even those under judgement are able to contact you. The dead (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe), in short.

Quote from: I spy with my little eye

Players
    Nerjin – Mafia Godfather
    Wsoxfan – Vanilla Townie
    Kamin – Mafia Roleblocker
    kingfisher1112 – Vanilla Townie
    markressler – Town Doctor
    vodot – Vanilla Townie
    Wrex – Town Cop

ICs
    Jim Groovester – Vanilla Townie
    Shakerag – Vanilla Townie

Scum IC
    Dariush – Scum IC

((You are a spoiled spectator! Enjoy your popcorn!))

Spoiler: Night actions/Death Messages -- Townies (click to show/hide)

The First Night

Doctor
> Protect vodot

Quote

There is magic or foul play afoot, and you know time is short until whoever did such would strike again. The leader suggests a regale in honor of the Marshall, and of the King so you acquiesce. Better to deliver your type of protection in a feast other than approaching him personally.

As you all dine together, you ensure that your special brand of herbs and spices is passed around the table as a tributary gift, carefully marked to ensure the survival and vigor of your target – that one called ‘vodot’ as well as livening up the dinner.

After the feast, you relax in your quarters, overlooking the nearby lands in all their splendour and lay down to meet your slumber, only to wake up the next morning for the proceeding trial.

Well, at least you had a good dinner!

((You protect vodot))

The Cop
> Argh, lynch.

Quote

The battle was of the finest you've ever seen, and will ever see for now. You were the brightest and quickest fighter in the realm, but it seems Justice has caught up to you and your 'crime'.

You can feel being pulled out of your mortal shell, watching the scene from afar before noticing that your combatant -- The Marshall, speaking to you!

Somehow, he can communicate with the dead! And...

You can, also. (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe)

Unfortunately, the dead are the only ones you can speak to...The land of the living is now a far dream, and you will only truly rest in peace if your comrades get their wits about, and vanquish the evil among them.

((You have been lynched! That is the link for the deadchat! Hope you had fun! You can still win the game if the Town faction wins!))

---

The Second Night

The Doctor -- webadict
>Protect vodot - Death.

Quote

The long hours of the night pass as you stare out the windows of the Great Hall, thinking on the eclipse while checking your trusty pouch of herbs.

Safety. The Templars won't get you here, you muse. There seems to be a pattern to all this, a death per night. You're sure the person you protect is one of your own.

Kingsfoil, Nightshade, Sage, Thyme, Basil...you've more than enough to last a week's ration, but the toll was faster than your own healing. Who could be so elusive as to escape being seen? The faint silhouettes prove that nothing else is moving, or even stirring as you glance around. It would be dawn soon.

Suddenly, you feel a fire erupt in your lungs, as if the smell of incense is coming from within you. You try to cry out, but fail to get a single word or wheeze from your burning lips. Your pouch falls to the floor, spilling it's contents with you following after. Whether it would be poisoning, or just your specific allergy to squid, you wouldn't know, but bodily spasms and heavy constriction of the air passage does not bode well.

Before darkness overwhelms you, you hear the calming voice of the Marshall, echoing outside. Somehow, his is the last voice you hear.

You are dead. (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe) Do you want your possessions identified? (Y/N)

Miscellaneous

kingfisher1112 - die.

Quote

Throwing down the gauntlet didn't seem to be a good idea, but at least you're unharmed. Still, to the dungeons you go - you didn't even know this place had a dungeon - for holding while waiting for the trial to rest.

Strangely, you can hear the Marshall's voice, as well as the two before you as you sit in your cell. Waiting...

Perhaps you've gone mad?

But you're speaking with the dead now. (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe) Nothing but them, and the stone walls surrounding you.

Shakerag

Quote

How amusing. Not even the forces of this place couldn’t prevent the death of a fellowman in the name of justice.

Regardless, you stretch on your bed, calmly counting the disappearing stars and preparing your speech for the new day, having enjoyed a sumptuous feast provided by the leader in honor of the King and the presence of the Marshall. Your thoughts wander off into the night, becoming a rhythm of words and ideas.

That is all broken when you jolt awake, hearing someone rapping on your door. You look at the window outside. Morning.

Fearing tardiness, you hastily grab your sword and answer the call, only to be met by a strange figure cloaked in darkness – wasn’t it already morning? You could see sunlight streaming from behind him, but strangely, nothing of the figure’s identity.

A ghost, a shade, a being of the past returning to haunt you perhaps? A soul of the wars you’ve fought long ago returning for vengeance? They do say that all of you were brought here because judgement was done by a higher power other than man’s decision, but this was going too far!

You question, and receive no answer. You threaten, and silence reigns. You feel your own breathing shift, becoming hoarse and irregular as the seconds pass, as if the being was a semblance of death itself.

Suddenly, it lunges forward with it’s sword, striking at you with a dizzying combination of thrusts, slashes and mixed combat of body and blade. Your years of training and fighting prove you well; if this opponent had been any human at all, you would’ve trounced the interloper on the spot.

But it wasn’t to be. The being turns most of your blows aside, giving only a token few cuts to pass through to feed your hope of survival.

Now pressed between the window and it’s blade, you shout a curse at it in defiance.

“Why do you do this! A Templar, you are! Scoundrel! Murderer! Traitor!-”

It cuts you off with a low, deep tone.

“I am an honest man, my blade shall not taint itself by your blood.

“May the Earth and sky judge you.”

With a kick, you feel several ribs break despite your armor as you stumble and finally fall from the window, meeting the ground with a sickening snap.

Your vision clears, and you can only feel pain all over, but this pain is not of the physical world but of the mental and emotional. Have you done all these to only fail in the end?

No matter, for you feel a presence envelop you. You can feel significant others acknowledging your presence. The clamor of the commonfolk sound around you and you swear you hear the Marshall’s clear tone sound for the last time.

“Providence is deemed to be determined in truth.”

One way or another, you feel at peace knowing that you will be avenged.

((You have been slain!

By the Mafia.

Luckily, your voice is heard by those above. Rest well, Sir Knight. (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe)))

Spoiler: Night Actions -- Scum (click to show/hide)

The First Night

The Roleblocker Quote Time is running out, and another interruption to your plans presents itself. There is a magic-user about, but he or she, whatever it is, won’t stop a follower of the cloth from performing his duty. As the other knights round up near the stairwell, along with the leader, you calmly request if there could be a communal feast this evening, with yourself performing the blessing before meals. He accepts and leads all of you to the Great Hall of the Fane for the regale in honor of the King, his vassals, and in good gentlemanly habit. You all seat yourselves around a long rectangular table, cleaned and refurbished for present use, and begin your solemn deed. Bénedic, Dómine, nos et haec tua dona quae de tua largitate sumus sumpturi. Per Christum  Dóminum nostrum. “Amen.” You all say in unison. You move next to each knight in turn, giving them your blessing, keeping them under watchful eye of the Creator above from any malice or scorn for the night. You have marked Jim Groovester to be kept under special notice. After the feast, you slump into bed and wake the next morn, feeling a gentle breeze waft in your room before moving down the lonely halls and entering the courtyard along with the rest. ((You roleblock Jim Groovester))

The Godfather Quote Time is running out, and another interruption to your plans presents itself. There is a magic-user about, but he or she, whatever it is, won’t stop you from performing justice. Before commencing your duty, you ensure that your weapons are ready for it’s designed purpose, enhanced by the doings of your partner. Day is slowly dawning as you make your way past the roaming patrols, using a map provided. You rap on the one called Shakerag’s door and see his confused expression upon seeing you. Wordlessly, you draw your weapon – a personally crafted arming sword and enjoy the sight of him scrambling for his own. He says words you don’t understand, perhaps shouting for guards or calling some other power. You don’t listen. Advancing with your sword raised, you engage in a flurry of strikes befitting of a master swordsman and duelist, parrying every blow and catching him off guard until he is pressed between the window overseeing the courtyard, and your blade. “Why do you do this! A Templar, you are! Scoundrel! Murderer! Traitor!-” “I am an honest man, my blade shall not taint itself by your blood” With that, you deliver a decisive kick to his midsection, sending the aged knight off balance, and watch as he disappears below the window, hurtling into the ground below. You sheathe your sword and quickly leave, only to meet the others at the entry of the courtyard once more for the day's deliberations. Your memory is clouded on why exactly you did such, but this means one less man for the trials. ((Shakerag has been slain!))

The Second Night

The Roleblocker Quote Trapped. In a room with the very people who tried to kill you off, you are glad that you weren't subjected to the same fate as Sir Leon. The dungeons these people have, are worse than what you could believe. Extraction of information by torture, perhaps. One of the crudest ways to get a person to talk, and in your opinion, one of the dumbest. You grab your makeshift censer as you tell the rest about your designated area -- near the door, working your way around the room as you mark the one called 'vodot''s destined area with a prayer. You feel someone watching you as you do such, ensuring he comes to no mischief tonight. As you sleep, you dream of a world at peace, with those of open mind and free of thought able to voice out their word, unfettered by the iron fist of rulers and tyrants. But at what cost? You know your ally has not killed anyone, nor have you. But the death count is rising, per night, like a pattern. Before your mind can dwell on the subject for any longer, you feel the calming radiance of the sun's rays fall on your face, and wake up. To see one more death. ((You roleblock vodot!))

The Godfather Quote Time swiftly passes as the knights choose their location in the Hall. You are separated from your ally to make due with your identity, and through that, your personal belongings. The eclipse was strange, nothing in your plans. Perhaps Map was right in it's words, that magic was involved in this cause. A death per night wasn't a good thing, and even from your eyes it was despicable. As you think about it, you feel your body moving of it's own accord, seeing yourself walk over to the one called 'webadict' like a puppet. Stranger yet, as you turn back, you see your own body in the same pseudo-sleeping position! You're being warped! Your ghostly hands grasp the knight's throat, but you balk at the sight of his protection -- Alrunia, a powerful herb said to cast away any supernatural presence. The Knight falls along with his pouch, but only after the herb manages to come in contact with your 'skin'. You feel it burn you, and scream. Thousands of screams echo around you, and none of them your own. Suddenly, you feel a sharp tug and you return to your body with nary another thought. Soon enough, the light of the morning wakes you from your restful and dreamless slumber. You check your arm, legs and sigil, they're all normal somehow. Perhaps...there really is a wizard. ((You KILL webadict!))

What should have been

_{If not for that last minute shift...}

The Roleblocker

Quote

Death.

The sounds grow louder and more apparent as the leader tells his story, you can hear the wailing within the stones and the cries within the rocks, but something is amiss.

Glancing around, it seems that nobody has noticed your mannerisms -- perhaps they couldn't hear what you did? Nevertheless, the sounds grow weak as the group marches on after the reprieve.

A few more steps in, a couple of floors down and another torch lit to replace the last. To aggravate the situation, it is as if the deeper you go, the more distinct the voices become. It's like lapsing into a coma, but...a lucid one. Your leader seems to be in a different shade, an invisible aura forming around him at times. You're sure there is something wrong with him; the furtive glances while most of the group isn't looking or perhaps mumbling to himself at odd intervals. It did sound like swearing, but something is very off, now that you think of it. Glancing at your companion, he doesn't notice a thing after you signal your intention.

This was the Inner Sanctum, and your knowledge of the land returns to you as you decide to act on a hunch. Whoever killed those men would pay, and perhaps...it really was someone on the inside.

Suddenly, you see his aura flare up in an instant, engulfing the passage. You falter, stepping back as the others cast suspicious glances at you. Was that a- it is. The place is swarming with the souls of the dead, and they can't even see it!

You turn heel and run, ignoring the words cast from your group, turning a corridor and taking cover at a nearby alcove. The group passes your location, running as if they caught one of the Templars in their silly game, but you know better. As the sound of their footsteps grow fainter, you stand up and address the general location.

"I fear no evil. Show yourselves to me, spirits and let me be your mediator."

As expected, there is a momentary silence before the air shifts and moves in front of you, white matter coalescing into a human form.

It speaks: "We are the Shackled. Unable to free ourselves from this torment. You, speaker of the Lost, redeem us! Your leader is a Sorcerer! A dealer with the devil! It is he who deigns to lead you to your death!"

You swallow as you think of a reply, even in all your experience, dealing with ghosts was not the best thing you had in mind.

"Then let me free you."

"You are not strong enough. Those who you wish vengeance on, have the key to his death. Go with them, and form an alliance."

"They will not trust me after that affront. But I live and breath, and I can still act."

"Then follow us."

You acquiesce to the spirit's request, following the ghost who acts as your light source down a different path than where your leader was heading.

You (http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe) sense other spirits as you move along the path, souls of those who died in what may have been his work. Your vengeance will have to wait, and ((you cannot communicate on the Templar chat)) given the situation, but you have a feeling it will all be right in the end.

Grasping your Morningstar tightly, you can also hear the faint echo of the Marshall in the distance. Strangely, it seems that he is nearby, but...on a different, deeper path than what you take.

Spoiler: Night Actions -- tl;dr (click to show/hide)

Night 1
markressler - protect vodot
Kamin - roleblock Jim Groovester
Nerjin - kill Shakerag

Night 2
webadict - protect vodot
Nerjin - kill webadict
Kamin - roleblock vodot

I was secretly rooting for the town. -_-

Somehow, I feel like I messed something up...not @ the game but still something.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Shakerag on October 01, 2012, 09:02:02 am

Quote from: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 07:57:32 am

Unvote vote Pranz

Ahh, ye olde classic scum maneuver.  Well played.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on October 01, 2012, 09:58:25 am

Bastard. That happened to me in my first game. I had the guy marked as scum, then he tied the vote five minutes from day end.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Pranz on October 01, 2012, 11:35:52 am

Well fuck me. Why wasn't my vote counted? in it's orignal quoted form i marked Nerjin in red.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Hapah on October 01, 2012, 12:11:33 pm

I don't think votes in quotes are typically counted, because it would be a huge pain in the ass in any game with hammers (you would have to manually read every quote you insert and remove any votes). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.

And basically, mods are humans like the rest of us, and you want to make life as easy for them as possible: keep the votes outside of quotes and spoilers. Heck, mods miss votes that are out in plain sight from time to time. You did good to repost, but I can't fault Tir for missing it.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 02:57:51 pm

Please allow me to quote something from scum chat "Yes! YES!" Also... What was the deal with the templars? Why did they go crazy like that? Is it them or some higher power?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 03:01:16 pm

Also good game. Anything I could have done better on?

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: Day 3, Enter the Green Requiem
Post by: Bookthras on October 01, 2012, 03:18:35 pm

Fun game. Excellent flavour, Tiruin! That was very enjoyable.

I had some spectator popcorn, but wasn't really able to give it full use, as I was away for a while and later it would have been too intrusive. Still, fun play in both chats as well. That last minute hammer win was low, but funny and perfectly valid. Much, much better than a win by mass-lurking. Congrats to the scum for the win, and for having kept up with the game throughout. Great to see neither of you had to replace.


My favourite bit:

Quote from: webadict on September 30, 2012, 01:57:22 pm

Quote from: Jim Groovester on September 29, 2012, 11:56:22 pm

Blah Blah Blah

Get back to work, you half-witted layabout.

Burn! Oh, I missed you wuba!

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Jim Groovester on October 01, 2012, 03:39:01 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 07:57:32 am

Unvote vote Pranz

Ouch.

I wish lylo had been better, otherwise, this would have been a great game. Overall, still good though.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 04:06:01 pm

Quote from: Pranz on October 01, 2012, 11:35:52 am

Well fuck me. Why wasn't my vote counted? in it's orignal quoted form i marked Nerjin in red.

:o

Err...I'll just go off and die now. :'( Nobody said anything despite the votecounts so...ugh.

Quote from: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 02:57:51 pm

Please allow me to quote something from scum chat "Yes! YES!" Also... What was the deal with the templars? Why did they go crazy like that? Is it them or some higher power?

See: Epilogue.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Bookthras on October 01, 2012, 04:14:15 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 04:06:01 pm

Quote from: Pranz on October 01, 2012, 11:35:52 am

Well fuck me. Why wasn't my vote counted? in it's orignal quoted form i marked Nerjin in red.

Err...I'll just go off and die now. :'( Nobody said anything despite the votecounts so...ugh.

No, it was not your error, it was Pranz's.

Pranz: votes inside quotes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3650597#msg3650597) do not count, otherwise every time you quoted someone voting you you would be self voting. You did say it was a mistake, and reposted (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.msg3650599#msg3650599) without the quotes, but in that repost you did not vote Nerjin! You failed to make it red, therefore it was not a valid vote either.

The mod can't read minds; it is your responsibility to be explicit and clear who you are voting if you want your vote to make an impact.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Toaster on October 01, 2012, 04:19:44 pm

If it makes you feel better, a tie is a town loss anyway.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 04:24:34 pm

Plus no difference would have been made. I had no votes on me at the time.

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 05:20:26 pm

Quote from: Bookthras on October 01, 2012, 04:14:15 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on October 01, 2012, 04:06:01 pm

Quote from: Pranz on October 01, 2012, 11:35:52 am

Well fuck me. Why wasn't my vote counted? in it's orignal quoted form i marked Nerjin in red.

Err...I'll just go off and die now. :'( Nobody said anything despite the votecounts so...ugh.

No, it was not your error, it was Pranz's.

Oh, now I see it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Quote from: Toaster on October 01, 2012, 04:19:44 pm

If it makes you feel better, a tie is a town loss anyway.

Thanks you!  :D

Well, epilogue up, and I wish everyone had a great game and all! Was fun writing it anyway.  :)

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: wsoxfan on October 01, 2012, 07:15:07 pm

Goddammit, I knew it was Kamin. I just felt like I didn't have enough on him. Thankfully my replacement saw the same scumminess that I did. Seriously, he voted me after I asked for replacement ???? Anyways, I feel like I should have been questioning people more, as I let Nerjin go almost the whole game without serious questioning. Good game scum :D

Title: Re: BM XXXVI: The Dirge of the Dead -- Scum Victory!
Post by: Nerjin on October 01, 2012, 07:17:34 pm

Thanks. We did our best.