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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: kingubu on October 24, 2012, 11:38:44 pm

Title: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on October 24, 2012, 11:38:44 pm
I can't figure out how to tell if there are moghoppers on my map.  Is there any way to list vermin?  Or do I have to just catch a bunch and see what I get?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: TruePikachu on October 25, 2012, 12:22:52 pm
There is no way to list vermin, but the Wiki is a good place to start

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Moghopper (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Moghopper):
Quote
Moghoppers are an amphibious vermin. They are found in any savage area near pools during summer, and can be fished and cleaned for food. Moghoppers can also be captured alive and have mog juice extracted from them.

You likely have them if you have pools (stagnate water), are in a savage area, and it is summer.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2012, 03:21:51 pm
It really isn't worth it as far as I know, better to try buy some from other civilizations then have your vermin catchers get gibbed chasing after teleporting vermin.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: katana on October 25, 2012, 04:10:58 pm
Someone who has random urges to make mog juice isn't exactly going to care about the cost effectiveness of obtaining it.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Drazinononda on October 25, 2012, 05:18:36 pm
kingubu cancels Efficiency: Taken by mood
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on October 25, 2012, 06:06:40 pm
I realized I've cooked everything you can process at a workshop except for mogjuice.  I guess I'll just trap until something happens.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2012, 06:19:08 pm
Someone who has random urges to make mog juice isn't exactly going to care about the cost effectiveness of obtaining it.
Sometimes I forget just what this forum is about - Dwarf Fortress :P
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist Da Vinci on October 25, 2012, 08:43:38 pm
IRL frog juice is a drink in some south american countries.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on October 30, 2012, 03:37:33 pm
Well, I've learned a lot about trapping.

Firstly, the trapping interface is worse than the military.  I always wondered why trappers had the option of just grabbing a trap and wrestling the vermin.  Seemed like that's not how traps usually work.  Now I understand.

Not all savage biomes have moghoppers.

Taming vermin before you sell them doubles their sell price.

You can tame an entire animal cage full of vermin in one job.

DFhack's autolabor plugin doesn't work properly for the TRAPPER labor.  Probably no one noticed because no one sane has a vermin trapping industry.

Still no mog juice, back to work.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: edgefigaro on October 30, 2012, 06:09:56 pm
Excellent Science sir!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on November 12, 2012, 08:50:09 pm
About 4 or 5 forts later and still no juice.  The raws say their frequency is 10.  Which I'm guessing means 10% of the time there's moghoppers. 

I just built my first danger room.  They're pretty cheese.  Pull a level and, poof! magic military.  Still, it's useful.  I'm getting the rat catcher industry running the first summer instead of the second.

Next fort I'm going to embark without cats, since I have so many full time vermin catchers already.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: goblolo on November 13, 2012, 12:18:23 am
mog juice has value of 50 turtles each (25 times the price of common meat!). It will result in uber-great meals!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on November 17, 2012, 06:26:04 am
So I may be facepalming here. 

Moghoppers are amphibious.  Do you catch them from the kennel/butcher as "catch a live land animal" or from a fishery as "capture a live fish"?  I've been doing catch land, but I just realized they may only be in water.

Has anyone actually caught a moghopper?  I have yet to even see one anywhere.

On the plus side, I found that embarking without cats triples the vermin catching output.  And that lungfish aren't tameable.  And guppies left in an animal trap will die.

What a long strange trip it's been.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: AutomataKittay on November 17, 2012, 06:58:03 am
So I may be facepalming here. 

Moghoppers are amphibious.  Do you catch them from the kennel/butcher as "catch a live land animal" or from a fishery as "capture a live fish"?  I've been doing catch land, but I just realized they may only be in water.

Has anyone actually caught a moghopper?  I have yet to even see one anywhere.

On the plus side, I found that embarking without cats triples the vermin catching output.  And that lungfish aren't tameable.  And guppies left in an animal trap will die.

What a long strange trip it's been.

I think moghopper's only around during summer in savage biomes. I've never actually tried to catch them, myself. Pretty sure it's under catch live fish since it's found in pools.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Moghopper
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Lich180 on November 17, 2012, 10:46:31 am
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Captured_live_fish

I think you need a fishery, and capture live fish orders, as well as animal traps.

Hope that helps in your strange mood!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on November 19, 2012, 09:40:12 pm
Ok, more vermin news. 

Capture a live fish is doing nothing.  I've designated several fishing zones.  I've put jobs in multiple fisheries.  I've got dwarfs with fishing enabled.  They pick up the traps from the stockpile.  Then stand there.  And do nothing until they are dehydrated.  They don't even move off of the spot they picked the trap up at.  I'm starting to think moghoppers are a myth.  There are toads in the ponds to be captured.

In other vermin news, I've captured a creepy crawler.  Which the wiki claims is butcherable.  How on earth would you butcher a vermin?  I can't designate it to butcher in the z->animal menu.  I've tried with both not tame and tame crawlers.  I don't even know how I could kill the crawler and leave a corpse.  Falls do nothing.  I've killed dwarfs by throwing vermin at them.  But the vermin were fine.
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/20ts8jd.jpg)
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: AutomataKittay on November 20, 2012, 06:02:39 am
Ok, more vermin news. 

Capture a live fish is doing nothing.  I've designated several fishing zones.  I've put jobs in multiple fisheries.  I've got dwarfs with fishing enabled.  They pick up the traps from the stockpile.  Then stand there.  And do nothing until they are dehydrated.  They don't even move off of the spot they picked the trap up at.  I'm starting to think moghoppers are a myth.  There are toads in the ponds to be captured.

In other vermin news, I've captured a creepy crawler.  Which the wiki claims is butcherable.  How on earth would you butcher a vermin?  I can't designate it to butcher in the z->animal menu.  I've tried with both not tame and tame crawlers.  I don't even know how I could kill the crawler and leave a corpse.  Falls do nothing.  I've killed dwarfs by throwing vermin at them.  But the vermin were fine.
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/20ts8jd.jpg)

You shouldn't be able to butcher vermins, just dissect them. Unless something's changed, but it shouldn't since the crawler's too small to be butcherable even if it wasn't a vermin.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Asra on November 20, 2012, 11:03:13 pm
This topic intrigues me. It's one of my favorite parts of this board, so don't stop until you find a moghopper somehow! I'm sure they exist.

You're catching live fish during the summer in a savage biome and still nothing? Well, not catching anything at all? I remember a few updates ago I was able to catch frogs and things with the catch live fish thing. Maybe you need glass tanks?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: i2amroy on November 20, 2012, 11:07:35 pm
About 4 or 5 forts later and still no juice.  The raws say their frequency is 10.  Which I'm guessing means 10% of the time there's moghoppers.
Just a note here, but the [FREQUENCY:X] token is per biome, not per embark. So if you embark in a savage area and there aren't any moghoppers then you will want to find a completely different savage biome to embark in, not just put a fort down right next to your old one in the same biome.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Rohain on November 20, 2012, 11:59:02 pm
I vaguely remember somebody catching moghoppers while training a legendary animal dissector.

As I recall they gave up and eventually just modded all vermin to be processable into mog juice, which makes your cause seem a little more gloomy...
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: AutomataKittay on November 21, 2012, 02:33:07 pm
I vaguely remember somebody catching moghoppers while training a legendary animal dissector.

As I recall they gave up and eventually just modded all vermin to be processable into mog juice, which makes your cause seem a little more gloomy...

That was way back in 40d if it's Morul (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34933.0).

Yeah, vermins' never been easy for me to catch, moghopper's probably the worst since they're pretty specific season and biome.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Rohain on November 21, 2012, 04:44:12 pm
Yep, Morul indeed.  I should read that again, good fun.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on November 23, 2012, 10:34:44 am
Well, this is interesting.  Time for a vermin update.

I am growing frustrated.  This is my 8th fortress in this world.  I don't know how many before this, because I just started counting when I made this one.  Been some really interesting embarks, that I would have kept but for the lack of moghoppers.  CURSE YOU! CURSE YOU MOGHOPPERS!  My favorite so far is the one with the magma sea at z16 and all three caverns crammed from z1-15.  Magma and iron at z9.  It was beautiful.  Never had magma forges running in the first summer before.  Well, except that one volcano.  Anyhoo.

Speed kills.  I've started using dfhack.  Turning on fastdwarf 1 1 so I can get all the support crap out of the way so everyone can be catching vermin full time.  And I've found a fun bug.  Teleporting fast dwarfs catching teleporting vermin will teleport into the fog of war without revealing it.  There they will sit until they die of dehydration.  Lost 5 dwarfs to the inky darkness.  It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Spoiler time:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Last dwarf is a chump stuck in an unreachable part of the caverns.  Almost dead.  And there he goes.  Next time I'm going to set moghopper frequency to 100 just to see if they actually exist.

Oh yeah, buzzards and keas will steal vermin from cages.  Then dwarfs will chase them around trying to put them back in.  Hilarity ensues.

I need sleep.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: napancux on November 23, 2012, 01:28:51 pm
I wonder will you go berserk or stark raving mad.  :-\
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: WealthyRadish on November 23, 2012, 01:42:24 pm
I had a strange mood like this once, only it was for the perfect siege engineer to help build an embark-wide wall of ballistae around the fort... one who liked ballista parts, ballista arrowheads, and blood thorn wood, to get maximum benefit from making ammo and ballista parts. I only wanted masterwork ammo and masterwork siege engines, and a ridiculous quantity of both. After executing ~400 immigrants waiting for one with the right preferences, I eventually gave up. Good luck, anyway.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: AutomataKittay on November 23, 2012, 02:34:08 pm
:D
So much madness in this thread. This is an example of strange mood, only we can recover from it, unlike poor dwarves!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: DerNachbar on November 26, 2012, 01:45:11 pm
We can?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 26, 2012, 03:59:50 pm
If you pull this strange mood off, you might be the forum's first legendary animal trapper.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Sutremaine on November 26, 2012, 04:44:25 pm
Moghoppers exist. My current fortress gets their meat in trade from either the elves or the humans. I think this is the first time in a long time that I've seen them.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: xeivous on November 26, 2012, 06:19:50 pm
I had a strange mood like this once, only it was for the perfect siege engineer to help build an embark-wide wall of ballistae around the fort... one who liked ballista parts, ballista arrowheads, and blood thorn wood, to get maximum benefit from making ammo and ballista parts. I only wanted masterwork ammo and masterwork siege engines, and a ridiculous quantity of both. After executing ~400 immigrants waiting for one with the right preferences, I eventually gave up. Good luck, anyway.
I can just imagine a dorf at a desk in front of your fort, interviewing each dorf migrant before sending the undesirables to their deaths just because they didn't quite love ballista parts enough.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Cobbler89 on November 27, 2012, 06:52:22 pm
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
SLAVERING FANGS!!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on November 28, 2012, 10:10:16 am
I had a strange mood like this once, only it was for the perfect siege engineer to help build an embark-wide wall of ballistae around the fort... one who liked ballista parts, ballista arrowheads, and blood thorn wood, to get maximum benefit from making ammo and ballista parts. I only wanted masterwork ammo and masterwork siege engines, and a ridiculous quantity of both. After executing ~400 immigrants waiting for one with the right preferences, I eventually gave up. Good luck, anyway.

Hmm, can you even have both ballista arrows and ballista parts as a preference?  Also, glumprong wood is 1200 to blood thorn's 1250--it would be an acceptable substitute, IMHO.  Not like I settled for my weaponsmith liking anything less than steel and serrated discs, but...  Ahem.  Skimming my current citizens--you can have both ballista parts and crossbows as pref, which is awesome.  (Siege engineering isn't a moodable skill, remember!)

I'm pretty sure I've seen moghoppers in the current version.  It will take me a bit to check this, since it's (1) winter in my fort and (2) there isn't a Savage biome in my embark.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on November 28, 2012, 11:19:52 am
Quote
Capture a live fish is doing nothing.  I've designated several fishing zones.  I've put jobs in multiple fisheries.  I've got dwarfs with fishing enabled.  They pick up the traps from the stockpile.  Then stand there.  And do nothing until they are dehydrated.  They don't even move off of the spot they picked the trap up at.  I'm starting to think moghoppers are a myth.  There are toads in the ponds to be captured.

I started a tester fort overlapping two savage biomes and cranked up fastdwarf.

I'm getting the same thing.  The "capture a live fish" task conflicts mightily with the "fishing" labor.  If there's no fishing zone when I tell them to "capture a live fish", they go to the animal stockpile and just stand there, holding their traps forlornly.  If I designate a fishing zone, my six trapper/fisher dwarves dash out and capture a fishie each, and then...  fish.  Despite there being "capture a live fish" R tasks queued in the six fisheries.

HOWEVER!  One of them did bring in a live pond turtle when I gave up on that and told them to get live land animals.  As moghoppers also have the [AMBIPHIOUS] tag, this would make it possible--not likely, but possible--that they can be picked up via kennels' "land animal" task.

I say possible-not-likely because in my real fort, what land animal you catch seems to be affected by either the frequency/quality of the vermin.  Tons of rats and lizards, only the rare demon rat or fluffy wambler.  I'd wager it's a combination of statistics (you have fireflies, dragonflies, monarch butterflies, roaches, slugs, snails, rats, etc.) and frequency (even if the frequencies were even, your odds would be less than optimal because of so many other possible trap occupants).

Those of us who fish for food will be aware that your given pond/river/ocean will only yield a few set species.  Moghoppers, as far as I know, have never been catchable by the "fishing" labor, and it's still spring.  I'm going to try tediously micromanaging my little dudes by turning the fishing zone for the pond that only yields pond turtles on and off, while manually checking what the .s around it are.  If that fails, I'll build a bridge across the river and find out what those evil-weather clouds do.

Oh, and the first place your dwarves will go when you give them a land animal task is your food stockpile.  You could probably up the odds of them getting a moghopper if you placed your trappers in a burrow where the only food stockpiles they could get to were around murky pools.

[ETA] -- It's mid-summer and I've fished out all the murky pools on the surface.  I have 125 pond turtles and not a single moghopper.  Also, I was wrong--dwarves don't catch live vermin from your food stockpiles; they catch it from where your food is.  (Which is usually the stockpiles, but hey, DF runs on technicalities.)  Also, easy work-around for them preferring fishing over fish-catching:  either inactivate the zone or turn off fishing once your trappers run out; wait 'till they're lurking in the animal stockpile and then turn the zone back on.  Repeat until you are the DeBeers of pond turtles.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 28, 2012, 04:39:40 pm
Two questions:
1) Have you guys built and filled an aquarium before trying to "Capture Live Fish?" It may be that they will not start the labor until there's someplace to put the little guys once you catch them.
2) Have you tried just building traps around the ponds? I haven't messed with vermin very much, but whenever I want a cave spider, I just build a couple cages in an area where there are lots of spider webs and bait them with meat. I usually get one pretty fast. (I don't think I've ever caught amphibians this way, but I've never been trying to)
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on November 28, 2012, 07:36:20 pm
1) Have you guys built and filled an aquarium before trying to "Capture Live Fish?" It may be that they will not start the labor until there's someplace to put the little guys once you catch them.

They will catch the fishies without an aquarium.  You may get an animal stockpile full of rotten eels and all, but they'll catch stuff.  Also, got an aquarium successfully filled with water in the spring of both tester games so far...  The lack of an aquarium never stopped dorfs from collecting salmon/brook lampreys/steelhead trout/mussels/etc. in any game I've ever played.  :<

Quote
2) Have you tried just building traps around the ponds? I haven't messed with vermin very much, but whenever I want a cave spider, I just build a couple cages in an area where there are lots of spider webs and bait them with meat. I usually get one pretty fast. (I don't think I've ever caught amphibians this way, but I've never been trying to)

I've had really poor luck with built traps after 40d, and I've been catching craploads of vermin with the manual labor...  just no moghoppers.

The wiki says that moghoppers can be caught by fishing...  is this verified for the current version?  Are the season tags functional?  The [GOOD]/[EVIL] tags for sun berries and sliver barbs were totally kaput for a while.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 28, 2012, 08:16:52 pm
Capture a live fish is doing nothing.  I've designated several fishing zones.  I've put jobs in multiple fisheries.  I've got dwarfs with fishing enabled.  They pick up the traps from the stockpile.  Then stand there.  And do nothing until they are dehydrated.  They don't even move off of the spot they picked the trap up at.
After a bit of experimentation, this seems to be caused by there being no fish in the fishing zone. I designated a bunch of fishing zones in one map and had this happen. A message sometimes pops up saying "There is nothing to catch in the ___ swamps." If you check all your fishing zones and they all say Fishing (0), then your fishers will just stand around holding traps like idiots.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on November 29, 2012, 06:04:12 am
After a bit of experimentation, this seems to be caused by there being no fish in the fishing zone. I designated a bunch of fishing zones in one map and had this happen. A message sometimes pops up saying "There is nothing to catch in the ___ swamps." If you check all your fishing zones and they all say Fishing (0), then your fishers will just stand around holding traps like idiots.

Nope--you get the "nothing to catch" message when they're trying to fish and failing.  If they're trying to catch a live fish, you'll get a message along the lines of "no valid collection source/zone", like when you tell the dorfs to collect sand without a sand-collection zone.

Although they probably still sit there blinking on the animal stockpile.  Dorfs are good at standing around like idiots.

The main problem I've noticed with Experimental Games 1-2 is that the fishing labor takes precedence over the catching live fish labor.  If you tell them to catch a fish without an active zone, they'll stand on the animal stockpile.  Enable a zone, and they will all rush out and catch one fishie-thing each, and then when that task is done, they'll ignore other catch-live orders and promptly start to fish the ponds dry instead of trapping another live critter.

The next step is probably to fiddle with the raws.  I still suspect the season tags.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: MrWillsauce on November 29, 2012, 06:08:18 am
Psh, mog juice. I'll stick with my dwarven cheese than you very much.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 29, 2012, 01:31:34 pm
Has anyone actually SEEN a moghopper?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: JohnieRWilkins on November 29, 2012, 02:53:25 pm
Try starting an adventurer and searching carefully in the proper regions during the summer. That seems like a faster way of checking for mog hoppers.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: MrWillsauce on November 29, 2012, 03:23:04 pm
Try starting an adventurer and searching carefully in the proper regions during the summer. That seems like a faster way of checking for mog hoppers.
That gives me an idea. Could somebody go out as an adventurer, collect a TON of live vermin using his boundless TARDIS backpack, then leave them at a place for a dwarven settlement later on to use easily. Think about it: thousands of blocks of dwarven cheese, barrels of mog juice, and tame demon rats (I don't actually know if they can be tamed) right from the start. 
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 29, 2012, 03:46:31 pm
Try starting an adventurer and searching carefully in the proper regions during the summer. That seems like a faster way of checking for mog hoppers.
tame demon rats (I don't actually know if they can be tamed)
Demon rats have the [EVIL] tag, which IIRC, means they can't be tamed.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 29, 2012, 04:49:54 pm
I still suspect the season tags.
I've been doing a little research on this. Chipmunks also have the [NO_WINTER] tag, but I have tons of them in my current fort. So unless its an issue with the [NO_SPRING] and [NO_AUTUMN] tags in particular, I don't think this is the issue.

PS. Acorn Flies have the [SAVAGE] tag, and they work fine. So its not that either.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: laularukyrumo on November 29, 2012, 05:21:39 pm
That gives me an idea.

I've had swarms of flies that WILL NOT GO AWAY under any circumstances... Can you trap flies or acorn flies with animal traps? If so, fuck yes, I'm starting a trapping industry, because those damn flies are just raping my collective psyche. Not to mention aggravating the SHIT out of my OCD, because I can have cats massacre the rat swarms, but they do nothing to flies.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 29, 2012, 05:24:28 pm
Can you trap flies or acorn flies with animal traps?
No. Flies, and things like that have the [VERMIN_NOTRAP] tag.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: laularukyrumo on November 29, 2012, 05:28:20 pm
Grr. Is there ANY way to get rid of them? Like. At all?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: MrWillsauce on November 29, 2012, 05:29:42 pm
Grr. Is there ANY way to get rid of them? Like. At all?
magma.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on November 29, 2012, 05:37:40 pm
Grr. Is there ANY way to get rid of them? Like. At all?
You could just delete them from the raws. Then they'd never exist.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: astianax on November 29, 2012, 07:55:44 pm
i'd suggest making sure moghoppers are found all four seasons and possibly adding the [UBIQUITOUS] tag (found in flies). that should have them show up in any savage biome with murky pools

with demon rats, it's not that they're [EVIL] that'd make them untamable. if they have [PET] or [PET_EXOTIC] then you can catch and tame 'em if you've got an evil area in your embark (i usually do embarks with good, evil, and savage areas all together)

and, on the subject of flies...i've found that they will show up on rotting food even if it's underwater or burning away in magma. same with lizards and rats, actually. yay for teleporting vermin
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Thormgrim on December 01, 2012, 01:40:04 am
you guys aren't going to believe what the elven merchants brought me this season....

I can't figure out how to post an image, but I just got a female moghopper...
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on December 01, 2012, 07:56:13 pm
Grr. Is there ANY way to get rid of them? Like. At all?

Like the other poster said--delete them from the raws.  Or possibly make peace with them, on the basis that at least they're not mosquitoes carrying malaria and West Nile syndromes...

Quote
Demon rats have the [EVIL] tag, which IIRC, means they can't be tamed.

I'm pretty sure some [EVIL] creatures are tameable.  The alignment tags deal with restricting creatures to certain biomes; [PET] and [PET_EXOTIC] control tameability.

To the OP:  I tried slicing just about every vermin besides moghoppers out of the raws.  I missed hamsters.  So...  Hamsters everywhere.  Not a single moghopper sighting yet.  This is pretty nuts.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: itisnotlogical on December 01, 2012, 08:36:19 pm
There are no moghoppers. We have always been allies of Oceania, and at war with Eastasia.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on December 04, 2012, 12:19:44 pm
After trial and error, I'm going to blame this on moghoppers' [FREQUENCY:10] tag.

I genned a world where almost no other vermin existed, but still no moghoppers until I upped the freq. to 100, like that of proper vermin IE rats/hamsters.

Oh, and the best way to catch them is to place masterwork traps by murky pools and bait them with meat or fish.  You'll want to turn off the autopause in announcements if you do that, though.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on December 04, 2012, 10:32:44 pm
After trial and error, I'm going to blame this on moghoppers' [FREQUENCY:10] tag.

I genned a world where almost no other vermin existed, but still no moghoppers until I upped the freq. to 100, like that of proper vermin IE rats/hamsters.

Oh, and the best way to catch them is to place masterwork traps by murky pools and bait them with meat or fish.  You'll want to turn off the autopause in announcements if you do that, though.

Excellent!  That was my next step.  I'd already changed the frequency tag and genned a new world before I was distracted by non-dwarf things.  I was thinking placed trapped was the way to go, since "catch live fish" is so messed up.

Thanks!  I'm glad someone jumped in to help.  I was about to go berserk. 

I need to head over to the dfhack thread and ask someone to write a plugin to count vermin next.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on December 05, 2012, 04:36:33 pm
After trial and error, I'm going to blame this on moghoppers' [FREQUENCY:10] tag.

I genned a world where almost no other vermin existed, but still no moghoppers until I upped the freq. to 100, like that of proper vermin IE rats/hamsters.
So you didn't mess with their season tags at all?

Also, do you have to regen a new world? Or does just changing the frequency tag in your existing save's raws do it?

I tried that, and a summer of trapping yielded 15 blue jays, 11 cardinals, 6 wrens, 7 bushtits, 10 rats, 10 grey squirrels, 5 chipmunks, and 7 flying squirrels. But still no sign of the elusive moghopper!
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: melomel on December 05, 2012, 11:27:10 pm
Quote from: Urist McDwarfFortress
So you didn't mess with their season tags at all?

I did indeed.  Didn't do jack...  other vermin have [NO_SEASON] tags and still show up, so it shouldn't invalidate my results.  Probably.

Quote
Also, do you have to regen a new world? Or does just changing the frequency tag in your existing save's raws do it?

I did not, but I only caught 'em with baited traps.  Figured that since vermin are constantly spawning/regenerating, it'd work... should be easy enough to double-test, but I've found a shiny new toy (terrifying volcano/cliff embark site) and am trying to roll up a starting party that might survive the first season.  >_>
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Urist McDwarfFortress on December 07, 2012, 06:19:47 pm
Still no luck for me. Maybe I'll try yet another embark. Do you build you traps out over the slopes at the edges of the ponds, or just on the ground next to the pond?
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: BFEL on July 23, 2014, 08:38:38 pm
WE HAVE GONE TWO YEARS WITH NO MOG JUICE. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: cyberTripping on July 23, 2014, 08:41:27 pm
The thread shudders to life, et cetera et cetera.

That being said, this made me realize I've been playing DF for over two years now, since I remember reading this thread when it was made.
I still have no idea how to into fortress. /almost solely adventure mode player

edit: I also can't into grammar, apparently.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: kingubu on July 23, 2014, 11:03:08 pm
Oh mog juice, you sassy bitch. I never did make any. It's still on my things to do before I die list. Along with war jabbered army.

I did learn a lot about animal trapping.  The piece missing is a way to automatically empty animal traps. Writing a script for that is also on my to do list.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: parlor_tricks on July 24, 2014, 12:28:36 am
Aww, I was hoping for a shuddering to life with redemption at the end. Mog juice still eludes.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: BFEL on July 24, 2014, 07:33:40 am
Oh mog juice, you sassy bitch. I never did make any. It's still on my things to do before I die list. Along with war jabbered army.

I did learn a lot about animal trapping.  The piece missing is a way to automatically empty animal traps. Writing a script for that is also on my to do list.

Bumping your bucket list.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Cholek on July 24, 2014, 06:47:58 pm
On first try I have found region with moghoppers. :D

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9138

Edit:
I did it! First caught moghopper!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Tomsod on November 08, 2023, 04:29:34 am
(Apologies for necromancy, but it's hopefully no worse than creating another topic about this.)

In my quest to found the perfect fortress (v47.05 because I started before the v50 Linux build), I recently attempted to "transfer" captured moghoppers from a temporary embark to my chosen main site (which otherwise lacked little) via the medium of adventurer.

Unfortunately, it failed: when released into the wild, moghoppers eventually disappear like all vermin, but a new region population is not increased, unlike with native vermin.  Probably because the entry for them doesn't exist to begin with!

I did learn some facts about moghopper capture: for one, the "capture live fish" job appears to ignore them, likely because they lack the [VERMIN_FISH] token (see also this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175923.msg8109087#msg8109087)).

Baited traps might work, but there's apparently some internal vermin type order, and until all the vermin higher on the list are extinct, no amount of savescumming will yield moghoppers.

"Capture live land animal" is what I ended up using.  Unlike the former two, it actually targets a vermin on the map (as opposed to abstract region populations), so I put a barrel of booze near each pool (which were conveniently evaporated at the time) and guided my trapper to every sighted moghopper by forbidding every barrel except the nearest one (and all other food, too).  Awful lot of micromanagement, but burrows didn't work.

I ended up with 10 of them, and it took a lot of effort!  Shame it was for naught.

Another thing I noticed is when a spawned vermin disappears back into the region population, sometimes it's increased by more than 1.  That's how they replenish, I suppose.

Oh, and I also tried to catch moghoppers in adventure mode first, but apparently pond vermin don't show up on their own there, and [L]ooking for them doesn't work because they're not [VERMIN_SOIL].  (You can dig up mussels as an adventurer, though, which is likely the easiest way to stuff the future fort with shells.)

That temporary embark also caught and tamed several giraffes -- I wanted to see if I can raid for them from the main fort, but after the moghopper failure I'm starting another world so I can't yet say if it's a viable strategy.
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: Laterigrade on November 17, 2023, 09:22:03 am
IRL frog juice is a drink in some south american countries.
that is cool as fuck
Title: Re: I have a sudden urge to make mog juice
Post by: DerpFortress on January 06, 2024, 02:05:14 am
If you're using dfhack anyway, spawnunit MOGHOPPER FEMALE (yes, in caps, and MALE works too) spawns one in.