Post by: Nerjin on December 11, 2012, 04:35:04 pm
Beginner’s Mafia XXXVIII
Welcome to Jackalope. A small western settlement where the need for law enforcement is about as frequent as the rain. This dry dusty patch of land has always been on the fringe of society and on the border of becoming a ghost town. However a familial bond holds the people together and stops many from leaving. It has never lacked supplies though it has never been in surplus either. It’s not much, but for most of you it is home.
Yesterday however a wonderful, town changing, event occurred. Ol’ Jimmy Pete found a lump of gold worth more than any of the other townsfolk had seen in their entire lives put together! This joyous occasion was celebrated by all. Ol’ Jimmy Pete stated that he would share the profits with everyone on account of his old age and lack of any actual family. “Each an’ e’ry on’a ya is family ta me!” He stated as he patted the gold lump. Even better, though never stated by Ol’ Jimmy Pete himself, was that once word got out about this magnificent find treasure hunters and gold diggers would come from all over the west to seek their fortune! The resulting boom in business would make each and every one of you rich!
However it seemed that a few of you were not prepared to share or put off gratification for the future. Ol’ Jimmy Pete was found murdered in his home the next morning with a single bullet in his skull. Luckily it would appear that the gold was still within his safe.
After several hours of investigating you can only find very basic clues. You know for sure that it must have been one of the townsfolk as no one else would have known about the gold. You also found a few sets of bootprints so you know just how many people were involved in Jimmy’s murder.
You all decide to take justice into your own hands to avenge Ol’ Jimmy. However, in the back of your minds, you think “What if they kill again?”
Player List [7/7]
notquitethere- Town Sheriff - Night Killed: Night 1Kadzar Burn_healsuperBlast- Regular Townsfolk - Lynched: Day 3Onyxjew944- Regular Townsfolk - Night Killed: Night 6Captain Ford- Regular Townsfolk - Overpowered: Day 7ReDeadEr- Regular Bandit - Lynched: Day 2Fraxertlynx_- Regular Townsfolk - Night Killed: Night 3+!!scientist!!+- Regular Townsfolk - Lynched: Day 1
[/li][/list]
ICs [2/2]
- Tiriun - Bandit Wrangler - Got Out of Dodge: Day 7
Ironyowl- Regular Townsfolk - Night Killed: Night 5
Scum IC [1/1]
- Bookthras - Bandit Over-Seer - Got Out of Dodge: Day 0
Replacements
Spoiled Spectators
- zombie urist - Undercover Agent - Got out of Dodge: Day 0
- Skyrunner - Undercover Agent - Got out of Dodge: Day 0
Not-Quite-So-Spoiled Spectators
- Jim Groovester - Local Marshall - Got out of Dodge: Day 0
- Scelly9 - Local Marshall - Got out of Dodge: Day 0
Introduction
Welcome to Beginner's Mafia XXXVIII. As the title suggests, this game is for beginners. If you have no idea how to play or you have some experience but you're still not quite sure what to do, then this is the right place for you. If you sign up, you have one goal: Learn how to play the game of mafia. Since this is not an easy thing to do on your own and we wouldn't dream of forcing you to do it, you will be assisted by two 'inexperience challenged' players, or ICs. The ICs are experienced players on the board who have signed up to help you learn. You can always trust that the advice they give is genuine, however, you cannot always trust the IC, as they are players in the game and have the same likelihood of being scum as every other single player.
If this is your first time playing, keep in mind that games of forum mafia take several weeks, and can sometimes run longer than a month, and that you are expected to be able to play continuously through that time. If you can't anticipate being able to play for that long for whatever reason, then maybe the game of mafia isn't for you. But if it is, then welcome to the mafia subforum, and I hope you have a great time playing.
Gameplay and Concept
The game of mafia has a simple concept. A large group of players known as the town plays against a smaller group of players known as the mafia. In this setup, there are nine players, with seven town and two mafia.
Before the game begins, each players is given a role and an alignment by the moderator. There are two alignments in this setup: Town and Mafia. The town outnumber the mafia, but each individual member of the town does not know the alignment of any of the other members. The mafia know the alignment of everyone on their team and they can discuss the game privately in a special mafia chat. The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.
Once everyone has a role, the game begins in the Day phase. During the Day phase, players may discuss the game and each player has a vote that they cast publicly to lynch a player. At the end of the day after some predetermined amount of time, the player with the most votes is lynched. Lynching does two things: it reveals a player's role and alignment, and it removes a player from the game. Once lynched, a player is no longer allowed to post in the thread.
Once the day ends, the game proceeds to Night. During the Night, discussion is prohibited. The mafia team picks a target to nightkill. If available, any town power roles use their actions as well. At the end of the night, the target the mafia chose to nightkill has their role and alignment revealed, and that player is removed from the game in a similar way to being lynched. Once the night ends, the game proceeds to another Day.
Both teams win by eliminating the other. However, due to the nature of the teams, they win very differently. The town win by finding and lynching the mafia, while the mafia win by avoiding being lynched and nightkilling.
Potential Roles
Vanilla Townie - A member of the town with no special abilities.
Mafioso - A member of the mafia with no special abilities.
Cop (Town) - A cop may choose to inspect a single player during the night and learn that player's alignment.
Doctor (Town) - A doctor may choose a single player to protect during the night, preventing that player from being nightkilled.
Role-blocker (Mafia) - A role-blocker may choose a single player to block, preventing that player from performing his action.
Godfather (Mafia) - A godfather appears town to Cop inspections.
The only role that receives the success of their results in this setup is the Cop. All other roles are not informed if they were successful or not.
There is no limit to the number of Vanilla Townies or Mafiosos the game may have, but all other roles have a maximum of one.
Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)
Notes about the ICs
The ICs are here solely to teach new players how to play, but remember, they are also players in the game. This means they have the same chance to be scum as any other player and it is entirely possible for one IC or even both ICs to be scum. Regardless of their alignment, they are obligated to provide you with genuine advice, so that even if you don't trust the IC, you can trust the advice they give. Some ICs will use a special 'IC voice' to alert players that they are delivering honest, unfiltered advice, while some don't.
The ICs have the special privilege of being able to talk while dead. This is so that they can continue to give advice even if they are killed during the course of the game.
Rules
- Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.
- Nerjin,
- Vote Nerin,
- I reckon that there Nerjin is scum!,
- Vote Scumbag Nerjin,
- If you want to remove your vote, you may put unvote in red text. You must explicitly state this. It is possible to put the name of the player you were voting afterwards, but it is not recommended as it can lead to confusion.
- Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.
- PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.
- Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related queries.
- Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a train-wreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.
- Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.
- Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
- If you stop playing my game altogether without notifying me, I will come looking for you.
- Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
- Day/Night Length - Days will last 72 hours, excluding weekends. Nights will last 24 hours, or until all night actions are received. Neither of these include weekends.
- Extensions/Shortens - A player may vote for an extension to increase the length of the day. It requires >33% of the current number of players to request an extension for an extension to be granted. A player may also vote for a shorten. It requires >50% of the current number of players for a shorten to be granted. Extensions increase day length by 48 hours, while shortens will immediately end the day as soon as possible. There is no limit to the number of extensions that may be granted with one exception. If an extension goes through and players do not make use of it there will be no more extensions on that day. If you request an extension USE IT!
- Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten.
- Extensions/shortens can be opposed by declaring opposition (Oppose Shorten/Extend, I oppose this notion!, My Oppose goes to this), and they count against the total number of votes for an extension/shorten. Extensions count as opposition to shortens and vice versa.
- External Participation - While the game is ongoing, if you are not a player, an IC, or a mod, refrain from posting in the thread.
- Play to win! There is no hopeless situation, so don't ever give up. And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.
Resources and Guides
Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)Spoiler: On D1 No-lynches (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)
[spoiler=CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia]
Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.
Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.
BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)
Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bus
Post by: zombie urist on December 11, 2012, 04:39:27 pm
Post by: notquitethere on December 11, 2012, 05:22:07 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 11, 2012, 07:50:06 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on December 12, 2012, 02:41:58 am
Post by: zombie urist on December 12, 2012, 02:59:09 am
In general, its when the mod tells you the alignments/actions of every player. This also partially depends on the mod.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 12, 2012, 03:00:39 am
Post by: Dariush on December 12, 2012, 04:31:14 am
Post by: Tiruin on December 15, 2012, 12:59:06 am
May I ask what a spoil-spec is?
It shows who is on what faction - town/mafia or third-party, and possibly everyone's role, win condition and in advanced games - any sort of twists available to the players at the time of day/night.
That being said, I'm watching this.
Post by: Skyrunner on December 15, 2012, 01:03:46 am
Post by: Kadzar on December 15, 2012, 01:52:46 am
Post by: Onyxjew944 on December 15, 2012, 09:31:21 pm
Post by: notquitethere on December 16, 2012, 01:17:57 am
Post by: Tiruin on December 17, 2012, 01:38:24 am
Still, Playing IC in, if any of the veterans have no qualms over my experience.
Post by: Captain Ford on December 18, 2012, 12:30:14 pm
Post by: Kadzar on December 19, 2012, 05:08:08 am
Post by: Nerjin on December 19, 2012, 10:41:38 am
Post by: ReDeadEr on December 22, 2012, 02:11:17 am
Post by: fraxert on January 04, 2013, 01:07:46 pm
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 04, 2013, 08:39:29 pm
Post by: burn_heal on January 06, 2013, 09:13:54 pm
Post by: Dariush on January 07, 2013, 04:02:17 am
Post by: Nerjin on January 07, 2013, 04:30:34 am
Post by: burn_heal on January 07, 2013, 05:12:51 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 07, 2013, 08:22:52 am
Post by: Bookthras on January 07, 2013, 09:25:03 am
Post by: Nerjin on January 07, 2013, 12:04:38 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 08, 2013, 11:52:42 am
Post by: Nerjin on January 08, 2013, 11:58:23 am
burn_heal has replaced in for Kadazar.
Day ends in 72 hours. January 11, at 12Pm [1200]
The Old Parchment Reads:
- notquitethere
- Burn_heal
- Onyxjew944
- Captain Ford
- ReDeadEr
- Fraxert
- +!!scientist!!+
- Tiriun
- Ironyowl
[/list]
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 12:39:18 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 08, 2013, 12:41:20 pm
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 12:41:36 pm
Burn_heal, same question.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 08, 2013, 01:09:41 pm
ReDeadEr: How is your name supposed to be pronounced? What meaning does it have?
Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?
Onyxjew944: Are you actually jewish? On a related note, are you actually made of onyx?
Tiriun: From previous games, I'm aware that you live in a radically different timezone from the rest of us. What sort of challenges does that pose and how good do you think you are at dealing with them?
+!!scientist!!+: What's it like being constantly on fire? Also, would it be good for the town if we lynched you?
Post by: notquitethere on January 08, 2013, 01:18:11 pm
Captain Ford, what exactly are you a Cap'n of?
+!!scientist!!+, what's the guiltiest thing a man can say?
Onyxjew944, what happened to the other 943 Onyxjews before you?
Tiriun, tell me straight up- did you kill Ol' Jimmy Pete?
Ironyown, in your own words, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Fraxert, if you're a bandit, what would you say to make me think you weren't one?
ReDeadEr, where were you on the night of the 7th?
Burn_heal, if you were innocent, what would you say to make me think you didn't do it?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 08, 2013, 01:39:38 pm
Captain Ford, what exactly are you a Cap'n of?
Short Answer: Evil.
Spoiler: Long Answer (click to show/hide)
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 08, 2013, 01:58:19 pm
notquitethere, I was at home. And asleep.
Anyway, I guess I'm supposed to ask some questions at this point?
Onyxjew944: What do you say to allegations by people who I definitely didn't make up that you are neither jewish nor an onyx at all?
Fraxert: What kind of swallow, African or European?
notquitethere: How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?
Post by: notquitethere on January 08, 2013, 02:44:07 pm
notquitethere: How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?
Current research is highly inconclusive, ranging anywhere between 70 (http://m-net.arbornet.org/~kzyla/tootsie/) to 3481 (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+many+licks+does+it+take+to+get+to+the+center+of+a+tootsie+pop) licks. The world may never know. Question: how does this line of questioning help establish whether I may be a bandit?
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 08, 2013, 02:56:24 pm
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 03:26:34 pm
Fraxert, if you're a bandit, what would you say to make me think you weren't one?Ahem, "Herp derp I haz a roal, don't killz me"
Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
Fraxert: What kind of swallow, African or European?I don't know that.
Post by: burn_heal on January 08, 2013, 04:22:29 pm
notquitethere: I'd state my innocence simply, address any concerns and get on with life. Defending oneself too vehemently would probably only increase suspicion (if there was any).
I'll be back with questions a bit later...
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 08, 2013, 04:32:21 pm
Onyxjew944: What do you say to allegations by people who I definitely didn't make up that you are neither jewish nor an onyx at all?
Onyxjew944: Are you actually jewish? On a related note, are you actually made of onyx?
Captain Ford, what exactly are you a Cap'n of?
Onyxjew944, what happened to the other 943 Onyxjews before you?
[/quote]
Oddly, you lot are the first to have ever cared about my name since its conception several years earlier. In answer to your questions,
I agree. No. No. It involves either a rape dungeon or random.org, I seem to have forgotten which.
+‼scientist‼+ How do you science if you are constantly on fire?
notquitethere Then where are you?
Burn_Heal I believe scientist has need of you in the foyer.
Captain Ford If I were a bandit, what would a lovely conversation over red wine in the moonlight sound like?
ReDeadEr How do I pronounce your name?
Fraxert Same question.
Tiruin Approximately how many of the players seen thus far have made a complete mockery of this game?
Ironyown I sense an inside joke within your username, that, or random.org has made a fool of me again. Any thoughts on the matter?
COMIC SANS!
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 08, 2013, 04:51:22 pm
+!!scientist!!+: What's it like being constantly on fire? Also, would it be good for the town if we lynched you?
a. highly illuminating, it fills me with a fiery passion for !!SCIENCE!!.
b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
+!!scientist!!+, what's the guiltiest thing a man can say?
probably "I did it!" or "bathing in the blood of your murder victims is amazing. Trust me on this, 'cause I know from personal experiance. :D"
+‼scientist‼+ How do you science if you are constantly on fire?easy. Don't science, !!SCIENCE!!
ReDeadEr: Why aren't you randomly accusing like everyone else? also, does your name mean:
a. You were very dead (deader), but you came back to life and were killed violently agian.
b. You are a very powerful Legend of Zelda Zombie.
c. You are an Emergency Room for Legend of Zelda Zombies. (redead ER)
d. other (explain)
NotQuiteThere: When will you get there?
Burn_Heal: Why do you insist to stand on the side of the extinguished?
Captain Ford: Would you consider yourself to be more Captain America or more Ford Prefect? (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
Fraxert: What do you think of the game so far?
Tiruin: Scince everyone else is being asked I'll ask you: What does your name mean? (I also ask because I have no clue)
Ironyown: What came first, the chicken, the egg, or the chicken sandwich?
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 05:02:06 pm
Fraxert Same question.If you mean the same as your question to ReDeadEr, the answer is Frak-sert
If you are reusing my words, then this website http://style.org/unladenswallow/ (http://style.org/unladenswallow/) provides good answers.
+!!scientist!!+, good beginning with hints of an absolutely !!FUN!! endgame.
Unvote
Tiriun, whats with the pointy ears. Are you an elf?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 08, 2013, 06:08:27 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on January 08, 2013, 06:42:49 pm
Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
I wasn't aware they got that big. I find this to be kind of alarming. Perhaps the bandits aren't our biggest concern ...
... but then, we can't hang tumbleweeds, so I s'pose it's not worth losing sleep over.
Fraxert: What kind of swallow, African or European?I don't know that.
I think you forgot to scream.
Captain Ford: Would you consider yourself to be more Captain America or more Ford Prefect? (from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
Oh dear. Definitely more Ford Prefect. If I could be half that zany, my life would be complete.
Captain Ford If I were a bandit, what would a lovely conversation over red wine in the moonlight sound like?
... there are so many ways to answer this question. I'm going to go with my favorite, though. *clears throat*
"Sounds kinky!"
+!!scientist!!+:
b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
Is this a role claim?
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 06:49:22 pm
It is a rarity. Most range from a foot in diameter to three or four feet.Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
I wasn't aware they got that big. I find this to be kind of alarming. Perhaps the bandits aren't our biggest concern ...
... but then, we can't hang tumbleweeds, so I s'pose it's not worth losing sleep over.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 08, 2013, 06:53:54 pm
It is a rarity. Most range from a foot in diameter to three or four feet.Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
I wasn't aware they got that big. I find this to be kind of alarming. Perhaps the bandits aren't our biggest concern ...
... but then, we can't hang tumbleweeds, so I s'pose it's not worth losing sleep over.
All my ideas of Walmart-bag-sized tumbleweeds just keeled over. I had no idea hunks of dead plant would accumulate to that size.
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 08, 2013, 06:59:46 pm
ReDeadEr: Why aren't you randomly accusing like everyone else? also, does your name mean:
a. You were very dead (deader), but you came back to life and were killed violently agian.
b. You are a very powerful Legend of Zelda Zombie.
c. You are an Emergency Room for Legend of Zelda Zombies. (redead ER)
d. other (explain)
ReDeadEr How do I pronounce your name?
I refer the both of you to my earlier response to the good captain.
As for why I'm not randomly accusing people like everybody else, I'd rather like to have my facts straight before I commit to anything.
Post by: notquitethere on January 08, 2013, 07:39:45 pm
notquitethere Then where are you?
I'm in Jackelope courthouse, investigating the murder of my dear friend Ol' Jimmy Pete, Gawd rest his bones.
NotQuiteThere: When will you get there?
We'll all get to where we need to be when there are two guilty folk strung up.
Looks around suspiciously at Tiriun and the Ironyowl.
"I'll give you 'til tomorrow and if you still aint said yer piece by then I can't say I won't be suspicious."
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 08, 2013, 09:37:28 pm
+!!scientist!!+:[/b]b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
Is this a role claim?
I'm just saying don't kill me. Nobody wants to die today. Besides, is your great tactic for finding these bandits asking people if their dying will benifit you? nobody would say no! Now I don't want to overreact to this, but I'm starting to think that you, Captain Ford, are a bandit.
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 09:52:35 pm
It is a rarity. Most range from a foot in diameter to three or four feet.Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
I wasn't aware they got that big. I find this to be kind of alarming. Perhaps the bandits aren't our biggest concern ...
... but then, we can't hang tumbleweeds, so I s'pose it's not worth losing sleep over.
All my ideas of Walmart-bag-sized tumbleweeds just keeled over. I had no idea hunks of dead plant would accumulate to that size.
Well it just depends on how well nourished they are. A tumble weed is just a big ball, somewhat similar to a bush, of thorns with a main trunk which weakens with a drought or autumn. The bigger they get the more the wind will catch them (they have a lot of air, the smart-car sized one wasn't incredibly heavy (it was pushed by a fifty mile per hour breeze with seventy mile per hour gusts)) and the farther their seeds will spread. If enough hit a barbed-wire fence at once, they can take it down.
Post by: burn_heal on January 08, 2013, 09:59:33 pm
Burn_Heal I believe scientist has need of you in the foyer.
Sorry did I miss something?
@scientist: that would depend whether being on fire makes one scummier or not...
Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?
Ironyowl Do you enjoy better being a mafia or a townsperson?
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 08, 2013, 10:00:27 pm
I'm not your IC but I've been one multiple times.
Focus on the game and not things extraneous to it, like silly questions or flavor.
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 10:06:43 pm
I was just corrected, the smart-car one was very heavy (it wasn't pushed by those breezes it was found on the side of the road, we brought it to my uncle's house and we decorated it because we were over for Christmas). I was also reminded that if you hit one going down the highway at seventy-five miles per hour it can break the grille of your car.It is a rarity. Most range from a foot in diameter to three or four feet.Fraxert: What's the best thing about living in Texas?The tumbleweeds, (I have seen one as big as a smart car) and the wind I guess (I live on the panhandle which is on the great plains, so we have fairly strong wind. I must say I dislike the tornadoes, however.
I wasn't aware they got that big. I find this to be kind of alarming. Perhaps the bandits aren't our biggest concern ...
... but then, we can't hang tumbleweeds, so I s'pose it's not worth losing sleep over.
All my ideas of Walmart-bag-sized tumbleweeds just keeled over. I had no idea hunks of dead plant would accumulate to that size.
Well it just depends on how well nourished they are. A tumble weed is just a big ball, somewhat similar to a bush, of thorns with a main trunk which weakens with a drought or autumn. The bigger they get the more the wind will catch them (they have a lot of air, the smart-car sized one wasn't incredibly heavy (it was pushed by a fifty mile per hour breeze with seventy mile per hour gusts)) and the farther their seeds will spread. If enough hit a barbed-wire fence at once, they can take it down.
Also sorry, Jim. I'll get back to the game.
Unvote
+!!scientist!!+, you're acting rather defensive.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 08, 2013, 10:12:33 pm
Now, as most of you seem to have figured out, we're currently in RVS, or Random Vote Stage. This is the part of the game where we don't have anything to go on, so we have to make something to go on by flailing around a lot.
However, ideally this flailing should also help give us at least rudimentary information on other players, which is why game-related stuff is usually better than favorite flavor of ice cream and so on. That said, anything is better than nothing, and sillier questions can sometimes still be of use.
Or more or less what Jim ninja'd me to say considerably more bluntly. Jim is wise, so you should consider listening to him when he talks.
So, on we go:
Onyxjew:
Ironyown I sense an inside joke within your username, that, or random.org has made a fool of me again. Any thoughts on the matter?It was partially inspired by a valiant owl (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190188) that managed to enrage my opponent sufficiently to eat a condemn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205098) (he was losing anyway).
Speaking of which, if you could have a role inspired by any color from Magic: The Gathering, what color would that be?
!!scientist!!:
Ironyown: What came first, the chicken, the egg, or the chicken sandwich?Depends on whether you define a chicken egg to be an egg containing a chicken or an egg laid by a chicken. I would generally lean towards egg.
Also, would you rather be a water bear or a regular bear? How come?
I'm just saying don't kill me. Nobody wants to die today. Besides, is your great tactic for finding these bandits asking people if their dying will benifit you? nobody would say no! Now I don't want to overreact to this, but I'm starting to think that you, Captain Ford, are a bandit.Now this seems oddly defensive, doesn't it? "I'm just saying don't kill me?" While we're at it, don't kill me either! We should get a tally going of people who don't want to die.
Captain Ford:
Before I answer any more questions, I must confess some amusement at how several players have picked up Nerjin's mispelling of IronyOwl's name in post #28. Kind of interesting to know that they're referring to that post rather than the OP for picking their RVS targets.So you don't think there's anything to that?
Also, the origin of your username is awesome. Speaking of which, would you rather be a doctor (protects target from a kill), vig (kills target at night), or roleblocker (prevents target from actioning that night)?
notquitethere:
Looks around suspiciously at Tiriun and the Ironyowl.Ye'll wait as long as ye need to fer me te get whar I'm goin', boy.
"I'll give you 'til tomorrow and if you still aint said yer piece by then I can't say I won't be suspicious."
Speakin' a which, would you rather a player be moderate in post frequency and quality, or very high in post quality but rather sparse in frequency?
burn_heal
Ironyowl Do you enjoy better being a mafia or a townsperson?That's a tough one. Being mafia is probably more fun because of the "teehee nobody suspects a thing!" part, but only when you act like a townie; the temptation to just lurk makes the game less fun as scum. Being townie is also fun because it gives you a more obvious goal- find scum- as opposed to scum's more nebulous "anything it takes to run out the clock."
Tiruin, nobody seems to be questioning you. That's no fun. Would you rather have a one-shot inspect or a two-shot roleblock?
fraxert:
+!!scientist!!+, you're acting rather defensive.Is that all? How do you feel he could react to this in a way that will give you a better read on him?
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 10:40:50 pm
fraxert:I figure that his insistence on innocence was suspicious, so I vote him for suspicious activity. Scum seem more likely to become defensive or offensive, so if he responds strongly to the accusation I let the vote stand on a basis of more heavy suspicion. If he doesn't respond as strongly (no response is unlikely in any case) I assume innocence and unvote.+!!scientist!!+, you're acting rather defensive.Is that all? How do you feel he could react to this in a way that will give you a better read on him?
Now, however, because I explained myself, he knows how to act to get me to drop it, so my vote shall stand.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 08, 2013, 11:08:15 pm
On a lighter note,
Also, would you rather be a water bear or a regular bear? How come?I would prefer to be a normal bear with the invincibilty of a water bear, but while I think water bears are awesome, I would have to side with the regular bear for it's brain and concious life span.
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 08, 2013, 11:18:38 pm
Is it normal, in your first game of Mafia, to feel somewhat out of your depth?
Post by: fraxert on January 08, 2013, 11:19:54 pm
Unvote
IronyOwl, why are you making me question my sanity?
Post by: IronyOwl on January 08, 2013, 11:43:23 pm
I figure that his insistence on innocence was suspicious, so I vote him for suspicious activity. Scum seem more likely to become defensive or offensive, so if he responds strongly to the accusation I let the vote stand on a basis of more heavy suspicion. If he doesn't respond as strongly (no response is unlikely in any case) I assume innocence and unvote.By "let the vote stand," do you mean turn it into a lynchvote? Are you saying that if he'd answered calmly/quickly you'd have written him off as town and moved on?
Now, however, because I explained myself, he knows how to act to get me to drop it, so my vote shall stand.What was your plan here?
+!!scientist!!+, I don't know what to say. Me says "guilty", and Myself says "he makes a fair argument". (I says "hahaha those dorfs, man", but that is neither here nor there)Probably because it could use a review. Did Bookthras suggest this turnaround, from "letting your vote stand" to "Gee I dunno he could be either one?"
Unvote
IronyOwl, why are you making me question my sanity?
If you don't know what to say, you should attempt to scumhunt more. If there's nothing more to go on with !!scientist!!, then just keep an eye on him and move to another target.
!!scientist!!:
Fraxert, you're not making this very easy on me. :-\ I don't know what to do, because at the moment I haven't seen anything to make me sure enough to hunt down any particular person. I think that the captain blaming me for giving the only answer possible to his question was suspicious enough to be brought to attention, but I haven't even voted for him. At this moment all I'm trying to do is live, because right now I've got 2 more votes than anyone else, and in my book that's a bad sign in a lynching vote. This post is intended to be calm, but I realize that at the moment even this could look defensive. I understand that everything I've said things that could be said by scum, but please try to understand that it all could be, and was, said by a townie.Ah yes, the noob death spiral. It's a tragic thing, really.
On a lighter note,Also, would you rather be a water bear or a regular bear? How come?I would prefer to be a normal bear with the invincibilty of a water bear, but while I think water bears are awesome, I would have to side with the regular bear for it's brain and concious life span.
"I don't know what to do because nobody looks scummy" is lazy and scummy. The whole point of mafia is to find something scummy, not sit around waiting for someone to run out, waving their arms and screaming "I have a nightkill! I have a nightkill!" If you don't have any concrete suspicions, question seemingly innocuous things that might turn out anyway, including more RVS questions if necessary. You should never be sitting around with nothing to do.
"I realize this could be scummy but you've gotta believe me it's not" is also lazy and scummy. It's appealing to emotion or basically asking everyone to assume that you're town for no reason. If people suspect you, explain why their suspicions aren't especially sound or accept that they have valid reason to suspect you, then resume hunting for scum.
Post by: fraxert on January 09, 2013, 12:40:26 am
fraxert:Not so much quickly as calmly, and I guess I should have mentioned logically. My point was that more lynchvotes would likely put an inexperienced scum off-balance, albeit I wasn't thinking about the guidance they are getting from the ScumIC.I figure that his insistence on innocence was suspicious, so I vote him for suspicious activity. Scum seem more likely to become defensive or offensive, so if he responds strongly to the accusation I let the vote stand on a basis of more heavy suspicion. If he doesn't respond as strongly (no response is unlikely in any case) I assume innocence and unvote.By "let the vote stand," do you mean turn it into a lynchvote? Are you saying that if he'd answered calmly/quickly you'd have written him off as town and moved on?
Unfortunately, because of the prohibition on PMs I couldn't explain myself to you privately, and not answering would likely bring about lynchvotes. Although, it now occurs to me that answering privately would likely still instigate votes against me.Now, however, because I explained myself, he knows how to act to get me to drop it, so my vote shall stand.What was your plan here?
I was being wishy-washy. Perhaps I still am.+!!scientist!!+, I don't know what to say. Me says "guilty", and Myself says "he makes a fair argument". (I says "hahaha those dorfs, man", but that is neither here nor there)Probably because it could use a review. Did Bookthras suggest this turnaround, from "letting your vote stand" to "Gee I dunno he could be either one?"
Unvote
IronyOwl, why are you making me question my sanity?
If you don't know what to say, you should attempt to scumhunt more. If there's nothing more; to go on with !!scientist!!, then just keep an eye on him and move to another target.
Your suggestion for more scumhunting does appear to be wise (you are an IC), but I am still suspicious of +!!scientist!!+ and my sanity is still missing.
I Unvote for now.
Post by: Tiruin on January 09, 2013, 03:12:35 am
So Welcome newbies and experienced folk alike! Due to net shenanigans, I haven't been able to visit Bay12 in the past days and am quite impressed with the posts right now. However, questions must still be made even if you've a good 'feel' of the other person. Conversation must keep flowing!
A note: For Town, you guys should focus on one thing- finding scum. To do this, you must ask pertinent questions, or in the case of such, ask questions related to Mafia. Things such as acting in character and questioning like the ol' detectives is OK, but return to being serious after while. For Scum, same deal. Act like a Townsperson.
Days count, hours pass. The clock unravels who will hang. Choose your words wisely, for time is precious.
Lets begin.
fraxert: I've noticed that you're into one liners, in the start, being your only vote. Now, while this is forum mafia, every post by a player is scrutinized and read well, and must at least contain things pertaining to the game.
Kadzar, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
It's RVS, yes, but this doesn't explain what use you're doing this for. You must put in things for people to bite on when thinking, or in the least post something for thought and not a random question pulled out of thin air...or of a reference to Monty Python.
Why are you targeting one person at a time, and questioning him only then?
Tiriun, whats with the pointy ears. Are you an elf?
And yes. My avatar is based on such. Why does being an Elf make me scum?
Lastly, what did you gain from all those other questions you made?
Captain Ford
Tiriun: From previous games, I'm aware that you live in a radically different timezone from the rest of us. What sort of challenges does that pose and how good do you think you are at dealing with them?When Radical = Philippine timezone? Yeah. Let me list this in a comprehensive way. Also, its Tiruin XD
Quote from: Challenges > Most of the activity comes from the Western part of the world, so when I post, I make sure to be as clear as possible, for I don't have the time to wait on a person's post. | Quote from: How good I think I'm dealing with them? > Planning ahead. |
...So I guess that's it. Most other things vary on the event.
Are you stalking me? Also, if you were the Cop, how would you justify your Inspect target?
NQT - shortening this because long to type. Thanks. ^_^
Tiriun, tell me straight up- did you kill Ol' Jimmy Pete?I KILLED JIMMY PETE! Got a problem with that?
Oh dear.
Now, tell me what information you've gained from a question relating to flavor -- does that sort of answer give you and perceptions of me?
Tiruin Approximately how many of the players seen thus far have made a complete mockery of this game?By far? None.
Everyone makes mistakes, though I see in everyone the potential to grow and realize what they're doing wrong - some may be in the name of fun, but everyone will wise up sooner or later.
It just takes time.
Now, why are you asking me such?
Scientist
Tiruin: Scince everyone else is being asked I'll ask you: What does your name mean? (I also ask because I have no clue)Tiruin came from the ideas and words of J.R.R. Tolkien, and a derivative of the Norse Mythology. From the God Tyr, and the story of Turin Turambar, from The Children of Hurin. In its own sense, it has no meaning. What meaning there is to glean from it is based on your perception of me.
Now, in
other than ask what Captain Ford said, why are you using blue instead of the red?+!!scientist!!+:[/b]b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
Is this a role claim?
I'm just saying don't kill me. Nobody wants to die today. Besides, is your great tactic for finding these bandits asking people if their dying will benifit you? nobody would say no! Now I don't want to overreact to this, but I'm starting to think that you, Captain Ford, are a bandit.
Tiruin, nobody seems to be questioning you. That's no fun. Would you rather have a one-shot inspect or a two-shot roleblock?I'm also wondering the same why people aren't. >.>
> I'd pick the one-shot inspect.
Now, everyone reading (this is due to the brevity I've seen in others' posts), this is technically what defines an answer to the question, but explaining in more detail would help why you're doing such.
> I'd pick the one-shot inspect because if I compared this to the other choice, it would at least clear a player's role instead of randomly picking someone else- someone who may or may not be a powerrole, and wasting the roleblock.
Post by: burn_heal on January 09, 2013, 03:16:36 am
fraxert: I think you missed my previous question:
If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?
ReDeadEr
Is it normal, in your first game of Mafia, to feel somewhat out of your depth?You can be sure you’re not the only one :)
IronyOwl
Being mafia is probably more fun because of the "teehee nobody suspects a thing!" partI’ll have to keep an eye on you to make sure you’re not having too much fun then ;)
Now speaking of having too much fun…
Captain Ford, this isn’t the first game of mafia you’ve played here, but not much you’ve contributed so far has been very relevant.
Are you trying to distract everyone from our job of finding scum, namely … you?
Post by: burn_heal on January 09, 2013, 03:36:15 am
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 09, 2013, 08:03:29 am
Captain Ford, I find your actions somewhat suspect. More specifically, your attempt to make a simple statement by +!!scientist!!+ out to be a roleclaim.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 09, 2013, 03:55:22 pm
Fraxert, you're not making this very easy on me. :-\ I don't know what to do, because at the moment I haven't seen anything to make me sure enough to hunt down any particular person. I think that the captain blaming me for giving the only answer possible to his question was suspicious enough to be brought to attention, but I haven't even voted for him. At this moment all I'm trying to do is live, because right now I've got 2 more votes than anyone else, and in my book that's a bad sign in a lynching vote. This post is intended to be calm, but I realize that at the moment even this could look defensive. I understand that everything I've said things that could be said by scum, but please try to understand that it all could be, and was, said by a townie.
Captain Ford, I find your actions somewhat suspect. More specifically, your attempt to make a simple statement by +!!scientist!!+ out to be a roleclaim.
I'd like to point out that I was already voting +!!scientist!!+ before I asked if his statement was a roleclaim. I was expecting him to answer "no", because it wasn't. Instead, he FOSed me.
Captain Ford, this isn’t the first game of mafia you’ve played here, but not much you’ve contributed so far has been very relevant.
Are you trying to distract everyone from our job of finding scum, namely … you?
The point of RVS is to get people talking. The reason we're playing is to have fun. I don't see a problem.
Captain Ford:Before I answer any more questions, I must confess some amusement at how several players have picked up Nerjin's mispelling of IronyOwl's name in post #28. Kind of interesting to know that they're referring to that post rather than the OP for picking their RVS targets.So you don't think there's anything to that?
Not really. At the time they were writing their posts, Nerjin's (empty) votecount would have been visible from the Post Reply screen. I don't think it merits more discussion.
Also, the origin of your username is awesome. Speaking of which, would you rather be a doctor (protects target from a kill), vig (kills target at night), or roleblocker (prevents target from actioning that night)?
Roleblocker. The roleblocker can be used to detect scum while also protecting against the nightkill. Statistically, it's the most beneficial to the town of the three you mentioned, although it's not used on the town side in BM games on this forum. But neither is vig.
If I were scum, it would be vig. Obviously.
I wasn't able to get on again last night, and I'm busy for the rest of the day. I need more time to parse +!!scientist!!+'s response before I decide what to do next.
I know there are question I wasn't able to get to. I will get to them later.
Also, Tiriun, I asked you about the timezone difference to bring it to the attention of the new players, so that they could plan accordingly.
Post by: Nerjin on January 09, 2013, 04:05:11 pm
Day ends in 49 hours. January 11, at 5Pm [1700]
The Old Parchment Reads:
- notquitethere:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: notquitethere, burn_heal, ReDeadEr
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert:
+!!scientist!!+: Captain Ford, Onyxjew944, Tiruin,
Tiriun: Ironyowl,
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Captain Ford, Fraxert, +!!scientist!!+,
Post by: burn_heal on January 09, 2013, 04:21:46 pm
b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
Is this a role claim?
Captain Ford, I find your actions somewhat suspect. More specifically, your attempt to make a simple statement by +!!scientist!!+ out to be a roleclaim.
Captain Ford, I think you need to explain exactly what you were trying to achieve with your comment above.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 09, 2013, 05:04:58 pm
Onyxjew:Ironyown I sense an inside joke within your username, that, or random.org has made a fool of me again. Any thoughts on the matter?It was partially inspired by a valiant owl (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190188) that managed to enrage my opponent sufficiently to eat a condemn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205098) (he was losing anyway).
Speaking of which, if you could have a role inspired by any color from Magic: The Gathering, what color would that be?
I do not play very much Magic, but I think it would be... hmm. I don't know enough about Mafia to make a very educated assumption on what the roles might be. Odd. Welp, I'm ending this before I wall of text it. Fire.
Tiruin. One incredibly lengthy post after five pages of deliberation, a strong set of questions, advice I seem to have already forgotten, and a mild bit of Tolkien. Apparently you have some experience with this particular game. What, exactly, would you define as a proper question "relevant to the game"?
scientist. I'm not sure if recent posts by you have raised or lowered your scuminess rating. Understandable, considering it's your first game; but I still think it's more than that. My vote shall remain until someone scummier shows up.
Ironyowl. Same question I delivered Tiruin. I think most of us are here to learn the mechanics. More examples have never hurt.
Captain Ford. I concur with burn_heal and ReDeadEr.
Ah, what a confusing game. Undeniably intriguing, yet confusing to an initiate.
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 09, 2013, 06:17:00 pm
Post by: notquitethere on January 09, 2013, 06:31:01 pm
Speakin' a which, would you rather a player be moderate in post frequency and quality, or very high in post quality but rather sparse in frequency?I think infrequent posting can be acceptable if the posts are of a very high quality, but really a moderate-to-high frequency is best for everyone in the game: it lets everyone know you're not a lurker and it helps give people a better read on your character. Ultimately, there are eight other players, and as town three quarters of which are your allies but they don't know it. The more information you can convey to your allies the better.
Tiruin
NQT - shortening this because long to type. Thanks. ^_^No problemo :D, I may not be a cutie but I am NQT.
Now, tell me what information you've gained from a question relating to flavor -- does that sort of answer give you and perceptions of me?Well it shows me your reception to the theme of the game. I'm a big fan of roleplaying and I like to get in character a bit. So, thus far I've seen Irony Owl is receptive to the game's themes, but Jim Groovestar would much rather be getting on with strictly mafia-related questioning. This gives me an idea of who they are as people. This in turn will give me some small handle when I come to interpret their reactions to further questioning.
Healer of Burns
notquitethere: if you were doctor would you rather save an IC or a newbie on the first night?As a person, I'd rather save the newbie: it's their first game and they'll get more out of it the longer they stay. However, as a player of games I know that the person to save is the person most likely to get killed and often that's going to be an IC because they're more experienced and pose a greater threat to the scum.
Unvote.
Fraxert: You deflected my question earlier with humour. That's okay. But in all honesty, how would you act if you were scum?
Post by: burn_heal on January 09, 2013, 06:46:27 pm
We don't really have anything much to go on at the moment, so an Extension might be a good idea.Not sure if that's necessary yet. We still have a day and a half. I guess we'll so what progress we can make for now...
Post by: burn_heal on January 09, 2013, 07:45:21 pm
but Jim Groovestar would much rather be getting on with strictly mafia-related questioning.
I think Jim was concerned we were letting the theme sidetrack us. He probably thinks we should Keep It Simple for now. We are beginners after all.
Then I guess some people aren’t into the roleplaying element as much as others, partner. ;)
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 09, 2013, 08:46:33 pm
Not sure if that's necessary yet. We still have a day and a half. I guess we'll so what progress we can make for now...
Yeah, sorry. I wasn't really paying attention and I just saw that Nerjin's post said January 9.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 09, 2013, 10:49:49 pm
other than ask what Captain Ford said, why are you using blue instead of the red?From what I understand it's a way to say you suspect someone without actually voting.
unvote (nobody noticed ReDeadEr had a random vote)
At this point I gotta say I found out I'm bad at mafia. I can't figure out how to hunt scum, (despite looking at the guides repeatedly) and every attempt has made me look more scummy.
What I will say is I made a stupid mistake: for whatever reason I thought that Captain Ford was saying that I was being to insistant that I was townie, when that was the only possible response. If I understand correctly he was asking if I was claiming a power role, (the answer is no) and that's a lot less scummy. My only question is why Captain Ford asked me if it was a role claim in the first place.
Post by: burn_heal on January 10, 2013, 01:03:05 am
I can't figure out how to hunt scumSo there's no one you're even slightly suspicious of?
Post by: IronyOwl on January 10, 2013, 07:49:46 am
This is good reasoning, but what I'm wondering about is the next step. You seemed to be implying that depending on how he responded to that one question, you'd have written him off as innocent or guilty.fraxert:Not so much quickly as calmly, and I guess I should have mentioned logically. My point was that more lynchvotes would likely put an inexperienced scum off-balance, albeit I wasn't thinking about the guidance they are getting from the ScumIC.I figure that his insistence on innocence was suspicious, so I vote him for suspicious activity. Scum seem more likely to become defensive or offensive, so if he responds strongly to the accusation I let the vote stand on a basis of more heavy suspicion. If he doesn't respond as strongly (no response is unlikely in any case) I assume innocence and unvote.By "let the vote stand," do you mean turn it into a lynchvote? Are you saying that if he'd answered calmly/quickly you'd have written him off as town and moved on?
Also, "lynchvote" tends to refer to a vote whose purpose is to dispose of someone come day end, as opposed to a "pressure vote" which is designed to force a reaction out of someone because they think they might be in the noose.
I meant the "let the vote stand" part.Unfortunately, because of the prohibition on PMs I couldn't explain myself to you privately, and not answering would likely bring about lynchvotes. Although, it now occurs to me that answering privately would likely still instigate votes against me.Now, however, because I explained myself, he knows how to act to get me to drop it, so my vote shall stand.What was your plan here?
I was being wishy-washy. Perhaps I still am.Then why aren't you hunting anyone, !!scientist!! or otherwise?
Your suggestion for more scumhunting does appear to be wise (you are an IC), but I am still suspicious of +!!scientist!!+ and my sanity is still missing.
I Unvote for now.
ReDeadEr:
Alright, so I've had some time to sleep on it and I've decided to go with my gut.Votes and suspicions tend to work better in the form of a question, unless you're absolutely sure and trying to convince others.
Captain Ford, I find your actions somewhat suspect. More specifically, your attempt to make a simple statement by +!!scientist!!+ out to be a roleclaim.
For instance, compare the following:
Quote
You've been lurking, so I think you're scum.
Quote
You've been lurking an awful lot. Don't you want to catch scum? It's not looking like it.
Now consider how someone would respond to each of them. For the statement, they might not respond at all- you're not asking them anything, after all- and if they do, it might not be what you wanted to know. For the question, even a relatively meaningless question like that (the answer's never going to be no), they'll feel much more obliged to respond, and that response will probably be more what you were looking for- you got to design the question, after all.
Onyxjew:
Tiruin. One incredibly lengthy post after five pages of deliberation, a strong set of questions, advice I seem to have already forgotten, and a mild bit of Tolkien. Apparently you have some experience with this particular game. What, exactly, would you define as a proper question "relevant to the game"?Anything that gives you more of a useful read on someone. So for instance, asking them their favorite book or ice cream flavor probably isn't going to help you get a grasp on them as a mafia player. Asking them what role they'd prefer, who they'd like as scumbuddies, or what they'd do in a given hypothetical situation might, however.
Ironyowl. Same question I delivered Tiruin. I think most of us are here to learn the mechanics. More examples have never hurt.
For instance, let's say it's LYLO, you're scum, and your partner is still alive. If you lynch town, you win. If you don't lynch town, it goes to another day and everyone knows whose interactions to look at. Your partner makes a slipup and starts getting heat, but it's not completely unsalvageable. If you go for another lynch, you might be able to save him and win the game. You might also fail and look really bad come tomorrow. What do you do?
So, in this case, however you answer might give me a better read on your playstyle. Even if this particular situation never comes up, and even if nothing particularly like this comes up, I'll still get to know you a little better as a mafia player, and thus be a little more able to figure out when something's off.
Oh, and the Magic question was an attempt at reading playstyle indirectly. It largely failed because you're not familiar with Magic, and I didn't have high hopes for it anyway, but I still know a little bit more about you than I did before I asked it.
Ah, what a confusing game. Undeniably intriguing, yet confusing to an initiate.Yep. Among other issues, there's not a lot of concrete stuff to latch onto like there is with most games; it's all gut and theory and trying to read intent and sense genuine patterns amongst arbitrary stuff.
notquitethere: Well done. You seem to have a fair idea of what you're doing.
burn_heal:
I think he was more concerned about the RVS questions not really relating to anything in general. He's not a big fan of "Did you see that latest movie?" style fluff.but Jim Groovestar would much rather be getting on with strictly mafia-related questioning.
I think Jim was concerned we were letting the theme sidetrack us. He probably thinks we should Keep It Simple for now. We are beginners after all.
Then I guess some people aren’t into the roleplaying element as much as others, partner. ;)
+!!scientist!!+:
At this point I gotta say I found out I'm bad at mafia. I can't figure out how to hunt scum, (despite looking at the guides repeatedly) and every attempt has made me look more scummy.Everyone's bad at mafia until they get better. Never give up.
What I will say is I made a stupid mistake: for whatever reason I thought that Captain Ford was saying that I was being to insistant that I was townie, when that was the only possible response. If I understand correctly he was asking if I was claiming a power role, (the answer is no) and that's a lot less scummy. My only question is why Captain Ford asked me if it was a role claim in the first place.
Hunting scum means getting reads on your fellow players. This can be tricky because there isn't a magic way to go about this; there's no game mechanic that reveals somebody's Emotion Card or anything, you just have to read what they wrote and figure out what's going on in there. That also takes some practice.
So, continue to ask questions. If there's anything that strikes you as strange or interesting or just a possible lead into one of those, ask about it. If there isn't, look harder.
For instance, I'll ask you a question. Oh... how do you feel about Onyxjew being the third person to comment on Captain Ford needing to be clearer on his intentions? However you answer should give me a better read on you, don't you think?
Post by: Nerjin on January 10, 2013, 11:14:45 am
Day ends in 30 hours. January 11, at 5Pm [1700]
The Old Parchment Reads:
notquitethere:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: burn_heal, ReDeadEr
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert: notquitethere,
+!!scientist!!+: Captain Ford, Onyxjew944, Tiruin,
Tiriun: Ironyowl,
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Captain Ford, Fraxert, +!!scientist!!+,
Votes for Extension: 1/3
Post by: Captain Ford on January 10, 2013, 01:11:33 pm
b. other than giving our lynching tree a fine looking ornament (I am well-made after all, just look at my name) lynching me would only be the killing of a loyal, innocent citizen.
Is this a role claim?Captain Ford, I find your actions somewhat suspect. More specifically, your attempt to make a simple statement by +!!scientist!!+ out to be a roleclaim.
Captain Ford, I think you need to explain exactly what you were trying to achieve with your comment above.
I don't understand why you think it is suspicious. It was a fair question, and it got a good response. Why are you attacking it?
My only question is why Captain Ford asked me if it was a role claim in the first place.
To make you squirm.
It was effective, I take it.
Spoiler: Off-Topic (click to show/hide)
Unvote. I will find another target soon.
Post by: notquitethere on January 10, 2013, 01:39:40 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on January 10, 2013, 02:40:02 pm
Spoiler: Off Topic (click to show/hide)
burn_heal:
Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?
This question sounds an awful lot like you were fishing for advice. What kind of answer were you expecting?
I also can't help but notice that Fraxert didn't answer it.
Tiruin: Why no post last night?
ReDeadEr: Congratulations on your (moderately) successful activelurking. I almost didn't notice. But a quick scan over the past few days made it pretty obvious.
You call for an extension (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3939549#msg3939549), claiming there's little to go on, but contribute nothing. There's plenty to go on right now. I don't think we'll be needing an extension.
Post by: burn_heal on January 10, 2013, 03:54:13 pm
I don't understand why you think it is suspicious. It was a fair question, and it got a good response. Why are you attacking it?I found it a little unclear what your intentions were.
Heh. I was hoping for something incriminating, but anyway...Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?
This question sounds an awful lot like you were fishing for advice. What kind of answer were you expecting?
Quote
Yes, though I believe there was a bit going on at the time.QuoteI also can't help but notice that Fraxert didn't answer it.
ReDeadEr: Congratulations on your (moderately) successful activelurking. I almost didn't notice. But a quick scan over the past few days made it pretty obvious.Hmmm.... not wanting to commit to lynching your scumbuddy scientist, ReadDeadEr?
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 10, 2013, 04:21:50 pm
ReDeadEr: Congratulations on your (moderately) successful activelurking. I almost didn't notice. But a quick scan over the past few days made it pretty obvious.
You call for an extension (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3939549#msg3939549), claiming there's little to go on, but contribute nothing. There's plenty to go on right now. I don't think we'll be needing an extension.
Before I respond to this, I'd like to know what activelurking is so that I know what I'm being accused of.
Also, burn_heal, I'm actually starting to think that I might have been wrong in my assumption that Captain Ford was scum, but I'm kind of worried that if I switch my vote to scientist it'll be seen as bandwagoning.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 10, 2013, 05:33:40 pm
Spoiler: Something or Other (click to show/hide)
I was avoiding answering that question until someone got it. Worth the wait.[/spoiler]
Weeeeeellllllll... lookie here. We got paranoia runnin' rampant. Should be fun.
IronyOwl Thank you. Definitely cleared that issue up. I was thinking you meant relative to this game of mafia. Which, I think, is impossible. At least for now. Anyhow, in the event that your buddy had just been lynched, you had a few votes stacked, not quite enough for next turn to be a death sentence but votes nonetheless, and you just made a slip-up. How would you cover your tracks?
+‼scientist‼+ If you could choose a role, what would it be?
Open-Ended
In the event that someone accidentally asks a set of questions that seem to implicate them in a way that is heavily unfavorable in retrospect, what would be the proper way to convince the town that it is, in fact, coincidence?
Post by: burn_heal on January 10, 2013, 08:02:32 pm
...until someone got it.oh… haha
In the event that someone accidentally asks a set of questions that seem to implicate them in a way that is heavily unfavorable in retrospect,I think the proper way would be to not look too self-conscious and focus on the scum. Unless you're mafia that is.
what would be the proper way to convince the town that it is, in fact, coincidence?
Also, burn_heal, I'm actually starting to think that I might have been wrong in my assumption that Captain Ford was scum, but I'm kind of worried that if I switch my vote to scientist it'll be seen as bandwagoning.Or are you worried about your vote because scientist has three votes and two more will be a majority?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 10, 2013, 09:24:27 pm
Before I respond to this, I'd like to know what activelurking is so that I know what I'm being accused of.
Activelurking (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Active_Lurking) = Active + Lurking. Being active but not adding anything to the discussion.
On a sidenote, I am suddenly really fucking sick.
...can't think of much else to add at the moment. Will get back to the business of counting all my organs to make sure none of them have run off on me...
Post by: burn_heal on January 10, 2013, 10:43:13 pm
You might need to :P
Post by: burn_heal on January 11, 2013, 12:21:40 am
This is probably the last post I’ll get to make before the end of Day 1, due to my funny (Australian) timezone.
Captain Ford has appeased me for now. Unvote Captain Ford.
But I’ll be keepin’ that fella in ma sights… He’s a thinkern’ one that one. And y’all know that we simple folk gotta watch the clever ones…
*sneaks a glance at Tiruin and IronyOwl*
Now on to who I’m going to “lynchvote”.
Scientist, unfortunately, your earlier posts still stick in my head as rather damning. Either you’re a townsperson who is nervous, or a scumbag who stuffed up. I’m thinking perhaps the latter.
I almost feel kinda bad voting scientist.
…almost.
Post by: Nerjin on January 11, 2013, 04:29:32 am
Post by: Dariush on January 11, 2013, 05:11:03 am
PFP: The game day ends at 12 today. However I will be unable to make a post or lock the thread until a bit later than that. Everything that occurs AFTER 12 will not be counted.This is stupid. If the mod doesn't post, the day doesn't end. If you're unable to end the day at 12, just extend it.
Post by: Nerjin on January 11, 2013, 12:13:52 pm
Day ends in 5 hours. January 11, at 5Pm [1700]
The Old Parchment Reads:
notquitethere:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: burn_heal, ReDeadEr
ReDeadEr: Captain Ford,
Fraxert: notquitethere,
+!!scientist!!+: Onyxjew944, Tiruin, burn_heal
Tiriun: Ironyowl,
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Fraxert, +!!scientist!!+,
Votes for Extension: 1/3
Post by: Captain Ford on January 11, 2013, 01:47:13 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 11, 2013, 01:52:43 pm
Spoiler: Actual Apologies (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on January 11, 2013, 02:13:06 pm
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on January 11, 2013, 03:18:45 pm
Post by: notquitethere on January 11, 2013, 04:04:09 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on January 11, 2013, 04:30:30 pm
So, +!!scientist!!+ to prevent shenanigans. Sorry, I don't think you're scum. But a nolynch would be worse. I hope you hang out in the deadchat.
Also, Oppose Extension. I'll reverse that if there's suddenly a lot of support for an extension in the next hour, but better safe than sorry.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 11, 2013, 04:35:49 pm
We haven't heard from the ICs in a couple days. ReDeadEr hasn't responded to my accusation.
I was hesitant to suggest an extension because I just finished a BM that lasted 2 months. (Ugh!) I'd rather the game get a move on, but we might not have enough information yet for Day 2.
(I'm sick, and thus more impatient than usual, so I'd like someone else's opinion)
Post by: notquitethere on January 11, 2013, 04:44:42 pm
Unvote
Captain Ford
Note I don't necessarily think Ford is scum, but I'd rather we didn't hang a townie.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 11, 2013, 04:54:46 pm
Why would you do that? Do you WANT a nolynch?
Extension. I doubt we'll get the second extend vote. But this needs explaining.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 11, 2013, 04:57:18 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 11, 2013, 04:59:35 pm
"Come on folks. Let’s go make sure he didn't steal any of Jimmy Pete's other stuffs." Sighed one of the other townsfolk. After a few moments the townspeople finally arrived at +!!scientist!!+’s house. Upon inspection they found two things. 1: That he had none of Jimmy Pete’s stashed away and 2: A journal providing undeniable proof that +!!scientist!!+ was indeed a Regular Townsperson.
Discouraged the townsfolk wondered home to await the next trial in the morning. In each of their hearts they knew they might not make it through the night.
The Old Parchment Read:
notquitethere:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: burn_heal, ReDeadEr, notquitethere,
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert:
+!!scientist!!+: Onyxjew944, Tiruin, burn_heal, Captain Ford
Tiriun: Ironyowl,
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Fraxert, +!!scientist!!+,
+!!scientist!!+ was lynched!!! he was a Vanilla townsperson!
Night will end 1/14/2013 at 5PM at the latest. Please send your night actions via PM if you have any.
Post by: Nerjin on January 14, 2013, 05:05:43 pm
Notquitethere the Sheriff was night-killed!
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert:
Tiriun:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting:
Day will end 1/17/2013 at 5PM at the latest.
Post by: notquitethere on January 14, 2013, 07:01:13 pm
The others find the sheriff gut shot by the old well, red footprints leading off into the scrubland.
'You shoulda listened,' he burbled through bloody lips, 'it was...'
But before he could continue his guts rolled out and he died in the street he had once sworn to protect.
Post by: burn_heal on January 14, 2013, 08:38:42 pm
I have to say, scientist’s innocence has thrown me off the scent.
Sorry for my lackin’ of trustin’ you, cowboy :(
I’m a little bemused at the lack of posting by certain people at the end of the day.
Something about Tiruin has me a little sus(picious). A bit too curt? He only made one post (granted a long one).
But - no post on the second or third days. At all. Happy to let an innocent be lynched, are we? I would have thought an experienced player would have joined in the discussion?
fraxert you were extremely quiet at the end. What a contrast to the beginning of the game - this is concerning. Were you happy to let poor innocent scientist die towards the end of the day?
“Note I don't necessarily think Ford is scum, but I'd rather we didn't hang a townie.”
NQT you sound rather certain here that scientist isn’t a bandit. Why? Is the reason you’re so sure because you’re mafia?
IronyOwl what do you make of the events of Day 1?
Captain Ford what’s your read on NQT?
Onyxjew and ReDeadEr: Who do you currently find the most suspicious?
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 14, 2013, 09:23:51 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 14, 2013, 09:30:26 pm
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 14, 2013, 09:39:18 pm
For now, though, I'll sit back and wait for some more people to post before I start hunting. I've read the scumhunting bible from the OP, so I should be at least a little better at it now. In theory, anyway.
Post by: burn_heal on January 14, 2013, 10:42:14 pm
“Note I don't necessarily think Ford is scum, but I'd rather we didn't hang a townie.”
NQT you sound rather certain here that scientist isn’t a bandit. Why? Is the reason you’re so sure because you’re mafia?
Captain Ford what’s your read on NQT?
Oops! Guess I should read Nerjin's posts more closely!
Captain Ford what's your read on Ironyowl then?
Post by: IronyOwl on January 14, 2013, 11:02:35 pm
This probably isn't even going to be noticed before the day ends, so these will probably be my last words, oh well. In response to your question, IronyOwl, I will say that I think you should be the one asking him questions if you're suspicious, because no matter what I say right now I don't know whether it will be taken as honest or as attempting to mislead you into not lynching a bandit. (either way, it could backfire) Also, in response to Onyxjew's question, I honestly don't know, I don't think I'm good enough at this to use any of them effectively. In any case, goodbye and thank you all for a great (if short from my point of view) game.So to start with, I'd like to say that this defeatist attitude is counterproductive. "I look scummy so nobody will take anything I say seriously" is yet another item in the List of Things You Don't Say Because They Accomplish Nothing And Make You Look Worse. !!scientist!! here did at least have the excuse of it being pretty close to day's end, so he probably couldn't have gotten much in the way of responses to scumhunting, but generally speaking the way you handle suspicion is to hunt scum. That's what makes you look town when you're not suspected also- hunting scum. Giving up and saying woe is me, I look scummy therefore I'm going to be lynched is completely useless.
burn_heal:
IronyOwl what do you make of the events of Day 1?I think it got off to an enthusiastic but largely insubstantial RVS, then more or less transitioned into !!scientist!!'s death spiral. I'd like to pay special attention to the people who lynched him, but obviously being on his lynch or not is no guarantee of anything.
Oops! Guess I should read Nerjin's posts more closely!And NQT himself's, for that matter. How'd you completely blank on both who had died in the night and what one of your suspects was saying/doing D2?
Onyxjew:
burn_heal: I have no idea now, I'm probably going to lurk for a short while. So far my attempts at scum-hunting have ended in zero conclusions, two dead townies, and a post worthy of FoSing myself. I'll jump back in should I see anything of interesting, but for right now I'm completely neutral and just analyzing.Cool. In that case, I'm just gonna vote you for being lazy scum, then sit back and analyze things for a bit.
ReDeadEr:
Honestly, I'm most suspicious of either Fraxert or Captain Ford. I was mildly suspicious of notquitethere, but I've been proven pretty wrong about that.Shit, but I only have one vote! And here you've listed two suspicions with no reasons and then refused to do anything about them. Them's pretty prime votin' reasons, don't you think?
For now, though, I'll sit back and wait for some more people to post before I start hunting. I've read the scumhunting bible from the OP, so I should be at least a little better at it now. In theory, anyway.
Tiruin, where art thou? Why didst thou lynchest the poor noobyie, for merely refusing to vote his suspects?
Post by: Tiruin on January 15, 2013, 12:40:57 am
PFP - at work. There were many things I would've wanted to address earlier, but that would have to wait until later on in the (RL) day. Apologies for my absence.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 15, 2013, 01:03:18 pm
Onyxjew:I can't tell if you're actually suspicious, or if you are just trying to get me to do something. Probably the latter, considering your attitude, and advice to anyone, in literally any situation is "hunt scum". Admirable intentions, and slightly repetitive speeches, but I just had a small jolt of inspiration. Most likely unfounded, but anything could become anything. Take note of the sheriff's dying post,burn_heal: I have no idea now, I'm probably going to lurk for a short while. So far my attempts at scum-hunting have ended in zero conclusions, two dead townies, and a post worthy of FoSing myself. I'll jump back in should I see anything of interesting, but for right now I'm completely neutral and just analyzing.Cool. In that case, I'm just gonna vote you for being lazy scum, then sit back and analyze things for a bit.
The others find the sheriff gut shot by the old well, red footprints leading off into the scrubland.
'You shoulda listened,' he burbled through bloody lips, 'it was...'
But before he could continue his guts rolled out and he died in the street he had once sworn to protect.
Implying he was proven correct, and last turn his vote was cast for... Captain Ford.
I'm probably wrong, as a role-playing post is, I think, not allowed to distribute hints post-mortem, but I think it is our job to be paranoid in this particular game and over analyze everything we are given.
((I'm not bothering to post a question to Captain Ford after I just blatantly wrote an entire post with an unasked question in it, so I'll just skip to the rest of the menagerie. Also yes, I am fully aware that notquitethere only voted for Ford in a hope to nolynch, doesn't stop the post from being interesting.))
Fraxert You've been oddly quiet over the past few days, any particular reason why?
Tiruin Are you concerned that your name has been misspelled in both the after day post and the after night post?
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 15, 2013, 04:08:09 pm
ReDeadEr:Honestly, I'm most suspicious of either Fraxert or Captain Ford. I was mildly suspicious of notquitethere, but I've been proven pretty wrong about that.Shit, but I only have one vote! And here you've listed two suspicions with no reasons and then refused to do anything about them. Them's pretty prime votin' reasons, don't you think?
For now, though, I'll sit back and wait for some more people to post before I start hunting. I've read the scumhunting bible from the OP, so I should be at least a little better at it now. In theory, anyway.
Okay, okay! No need to get sarcastic on me.
Captain Ford, isn't it true that sheriff Notquitethere, may he rest in... the street, since we just kind of left his body there, was suspicious of you before nightfall yesterday? And isn't it true that this would give you prime motivation to kill him?
Post by: Nerjin on January 15, 2013, 06:02:18 pm
Day will end 1/17/2013 at 5PM at the latest. There are 47 hours left…
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944: Ironyowl,
Captain Ford: ReDeadEr,
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert: burn_heal,
Tiriun:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Tiriun, Fraxert, Onyxjew944, Captain Ford
Post by: Captain Ford on January 15, 2013, 07:24:02 pm
Captain Ford what's your read on Ironyowl then?I have no clue. The lack of activity from both of our ICs has been rather frustrating. I know they're not doing it on purpose, so it's not scummy.
I kind of want to lynch one or both of them just for being so useless.
Captain Ford, isn't it true that sheriff Notquitethere, may he rest in... the street, since we just kind of left his body there, was suspicious of you before nightfall yesterday? And isn't it true that this would give you prime motivation to kill him?No, it's not true. He wasn't suspicious of me, he was just trying to save a townie.
At the time, I had no clue what he was doing. In hindsight, I can see now that he was trying to tie up the vote to get scientist off the hook. But I can't imagine how he was expecting that to happen, since he didn't ask me or anyone else to help him tie up the vote.
Unfortunately, in doing so, it looks like he tipped his hand to the bandits. His reluctance to lynch someone on day 1 is probably what got him killed.
...
And dammit, I was all fired up to go after him for that foolishness at day end. Now I'm all angry and have no one to yell at.
It's @#!*&@# frustrating.
...
The thing is,ReDeadEr, this question has been answered at least three times already by other people. Why did you bother asking it? Are you even reading the thread?
You also still haven't responded to the accusation I made yesterday. Why have you been lurking so heavily?
Take note of the sheriff's dying post, implying he was proven correct, and last turn his vote was cast for... Captain Ford.
I'm probably wrong, as a role-playing post is, I think, not allowed to distribute hints post-mortem, but I think it is our job to be paranoid in this particular game and over analyze everything we are given.
Onyxjew: No, you're definitely wrong. NQT doesn't know the identity of his killer. Even dead, he doesn't know anything more than we do. On top of that, he put "disregard this" in big purple letters at the top of his post. So why on earth did you bring it up?
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 15, 2013, 08:58:04 pm
If you would so kindly check the time of that edit, and the time of my post, you would notice I asked that question before he made that addendum. I was probably the reason who saw fit to make it, come to think of it. Before I rip into a thesis statement on this, have the gist of it.Take note of the sheriff's dying post, implying he was proven correct, and last turn his vote was cast for... Captain Ford.
I'm probably wrong, as a role-playing post is, I think, not allowed to distribute hints post-mortem, but I think it is our job to be paranoid in this particular game and over analyze everything we are given.
Onyxjew: No, you're definitely wrong. NQT doesn't know the identity of his killer. Even dead, he doesn't know anything more than we do. On top of that, he put "disregard this" in big purple letters at the top of his post. So why on earth did you bring it up?
[summary]
I realize.
I was wrong.
I no longer suspect you for that particular reason.
I still suspect you because I suspect bloody everyone for the obvious reason.
[/summary]
Post by: fraxert on January 15, 2013, 11:57:00 pm
Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?Probably pick fights.
fraxert you were extremely quiet at the end. What a contrast to the beginning of the game - this is concerning. Were you happy to let poor innocent scientist die towards the end of the day?No, and I had voted IronyOwl before finally unvoting before the end of the day.
Fraxert You've been oddly quiet over the past few days, any particular reason why?A bad combination of the End of Day typo, homework and the flu.
Post by: Tiruin on January 16, 2013, 12:03:35 am
Tiruin Are you concerned that your name has been misspelled in both the after day post and the after night post?People mispell my name a lot, so I don't mind. :P
Any pertinent questions you'd like to ask me, or do you like throwing fluff my way? If you're trying to judge by my reaction...Then take this:
MY NAME IS MISPELLED?! WHO IN THEIR DRUNKEN MINDS WOULD HAVE THE GALL TO MISPELL MY NAME? FRICKIN' BANDITS! THAT'S WHO!
But really, if its a reaction you're after, then ask questions related to the game. Something in line with the current thought of things.
Day 1 questions asked towards me.
Spoiler: Day 1 - burn heal (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Onyx - shortened for brevity :3 (click to show/hide)
This is a BM, and the holistic purpose of this game is to get you entrenched in the knowledge of Forum Mafia. Everyone was bad in Mafia at one time or another- but they grow in their own way. I mean, I once believed I was 'the worst player who has ever graced this board' because of previous games where I mainly slipped up on analogy. It was answered by (speaker is assumed to remain unknown) 'Pffffffffft, aaaaaaahahahaha.
It's funny, because it's completely ridiculous.
So long as you play to win.'
Also, activity. That's a good sign of being good at this game. :P
Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Captain Ford (click to show/hide)
@Morale: Guys, don't despair if a townie dies...or at least don't despair and post it. You can do that at your desks and create a memorial for them in DF if you'd like. ;P
Still, the rationale is like so. As Town, you're a team. You all win together if any hostile teams are defeated, and you outnumber them, regardless of loss of life. This doesn't mean you should waste yourselves or commit martyrdom to save a probable lynch (in this case), but you should do your best, as individuals, to succeed. Same goes for Mafia, you work as a malevolent entity to the Town, but you're also individuals in this part. Morale is a double-edged sword, it is something to make a conversation about and also something which will show off more on a player and his alignment.
Other stuff coming later in the day - am busy with minor assignments atm.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 16, 2013, 06:25:37 pm
fraxert:
I, um...huh. That's not exactly a conventional strategy. Do you think that picking fights would help you win? How?Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?Probably pick fights.
Post by: ReDeadEr on January 16, 2013, 08:06:09 pm
Captain Ford, isn't it true that sheriff Notquitethere, may he rest in... the street, since we just kind of left his body there, was suspicious of you before nightfall yesterday? And isn't it true that this would give you prime motivation to kill him?The thing is,ReDeadEr, this question has been answered at least three times already by other people. Why did you bother asking it? Are you even reading the thread?
You also still haven't responded to the accusation I made yesterday. Why have you been lurking so heavily?
Where has it been answered? I might be missing something, but I honestly can't tell where you're talking about.
And the reason I've been lurking so heavily is a mixture of not remembering to check the thread and having just recently gotten new games.
Post by: Tiruin on January 16, 2013, 08:46:06 pm
Oh boy.The others find the sheriff gut shot by the old well, red footprints leading off into the scrubland.
'You shoulda listened,' he burbled through bloody lips, 'it was...'
But before he could continue his guts rolled out and he died in the street he had once sworn to protect.
Implying he was proven correct, and last turn his vote was cast for... Captain Ford.
I'm probably wrong, as a role-playing post is, I think, not allowed to distribute hints post-mortem, but I think it is our job to be paranoid in this particular game and over analyze everything we are given.
Onyx, you should know that a Cop - flavor aside - only gets his results AFTER Night 1. This is a crucial statement which everyone should note - talking about last night's reasoning//connecting it to the role.
In this case, you're trying to allude a confirmation in accordance with one's BAH post. Wherein said post is just a statement made by the dead player - it holds no weight. If it contains pertinent information, that infringes the rules. Otherwise, if acted upon, it is a case of blatant WIFOM.
tl;dr: a dead player CANNOT STATE ANYTHING IN RELATION TO HIS RESULTS as it is viable for great mishappenings. Ergo, I believe you're doing a newbie mistake instead - read ye rules.
I think it is our job to be paranoid in this particular game and over analyze everything we are given.
> This does not constitute the right amount or type of paranoia. What I'm guessing you're thinking of is a person who doesn't completely believe anyone or anything, nitpicking on any post for credibility or fact. In this game, you should use your mind and intellect in discerning what is wrong and what is right - especially in what to post. An overanalysis won't help you with anything if you can't manage to convince or clarify your stand on the idea.
But perhaps I'm being too lenient and overanalytical?
Onyx. You stated you posted preceding the Bah post? Where is it? The day started before such. Though I have to note, your honesty in...lurking, probably a misinterpretation of re-reading, is something you'd want to avoid.
As of today though, have you no leads? Nothing that continues your train of thought from yesterday? Don't get lost on your finds. Continue pursuing them.
Quote
((I'm not bothering to post a question to Captain Ford after I just blatantly wrote an entire post with an unasked question in it, so I'll just skip to the rest of the menagerie. Also yes, I am fully aware that notquitethere only voted for Ford in a hope to nolynch, doesn't stop the post from being interesting.))There is no OOC here. Everything said is important to the game. Yes, even RP posts. :P Also, aren't you going to at least follow your hints//finds? Why question me about my name and not anyone else you find...odd?
Nerjin: The title says Day 1. It is day 2, you silly Marshall. :P On how to change it - Modify the OP and change the title there. All proceeding posts will carry in on that title.
Post by: fraxert on January 16, 2013, 09:09:59 pm
fraxert:I never said that it's a working strategy. I said that's probably what I'd do. If I upset someone they might slip-up. If you look at my previous posts on the subject of my game-plan, I rely on luck.I, um...huh. That's not exactly a conventional strategy. Do you think that picking fights would help you win? How?Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?Probably pick fights.
Post by: burn_heal on January 16, 2013, 09:14:27 pm
I'd like to pay special attention to the people who lynched him, but obviously being on his lynch or not is no guarantee of anything.I think the greatest responsibility falls on none other than yourself for scientist’s lynching, to be honest.
Oops! Guess I should read Nerjin's posts more closely!And NQT himself's, for that matter. How'd you completely blank on both who had died in the night and what one of your suspects was saying/doing D2?
You could say I rushed that post :P
Post by: Tiruin on January 16, 2013, 09:17:17 pm
I mean, that's just like choosing any random variable out of a hat and going with it. How will you get answers from picking fights? Poking the other person's nerves enough to cause an insurmountable amount of rage and hatred?
burn_heal: Explain more on your statement @ IronyOwl. How does it relate?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 16, 2013, 09:28:33 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on January 16, 2013, 09:41:24 pm
Captain Ford, isn't it true that sheriff Notquitethere, may he rest in... the street, since we just kind of left his body there, was suspicious of you before nightfall yesterday? And isn't it true that this would give you prime motivation to kill him?The thing is,ReDeadEr, this question has been answered at least three times already by other people. Why did you bother asking it? Are you even reading the thread?
You also still haven't responded to the accusation I made yesterday. Why have you been lurking so heavily?
Where has it been answered? I might be missing something, but I honestly can't tell where you're talking about.
And the reason I've been lurking so heavily is a mixture of not remembering to check the thread and having just recently gotten new games.
Now that I reread, I can't find it anywhere. My brain is insistent that I wasn't the first person to say that, but ... what the hell, brain?
Anyway, that's more or less what I was expecting. Unvote. Now pick somebody and vote for them. If you're not voting, then it's like the town is down a player.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 16, 2013, 09:42:43 pm
I blame the pudding.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 16, 2013, 09:54:03 pm
Spoiler: OP (click to show/hide)
Quote
You stated you posted preceding the Bah post? Where is it? The day started before such.My posts have all become a series of "I did post A because C" followed by "Post A because C and Post B because 6." which has apparently netted me a certain deal of confusion. I'll just sort my posts here so I can get back to lurking/thinking/scum-hunting/whatever-you-want-to-call-it.
Spoiler: Post A: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Post B: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Post C: (click to show/hide)
With my compendium of failure complete and fully organized, I shall return to doing what I'm most likely wrong in thinking I should be doing. Because remember, confidence is key. Oh, and to make this abundantly clear, part I-lost-track.
I know the RP post is to be disregarded. I didn't before. Are there any other pertinent questions?
Tiruin: Do all Mafia games end with this many "I already said this, check A,B,C." posts? Note this is not a sarcastic jab, there are a few other cases of this besides myself.
Fraxert: What would you be looking for during any of those fights? Specific examples, if you would. I'm trying to think of something that a raging Anon could say that would indicate scumminess.
burn_heal What is your current read on the situation? Who do you think is suspicious, and why?
Post by: Nerjin on January 16, 2013, 10:44:46 pm
Day will end 1/17/2013 at 5PM at the latest. There are 19 hours left…
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944: Ironyowl, Tiruin
Captain Ford: ReDeadEr,
ReDeadEr:
Fraxert: burn_heal,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Fraxert, Onyxjew944, Captain Ford[?],
Captain Ford I saw you write Never-mind but does that mean you DO want to vote ReDeadEr? I could use some Vote text if you are.
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2013, 12:14:32 am
Quote
Tiruin: Do all Mafia games end with this many "I already said this, check A,B,C." posts? Note this is not a sarcastic jab, there are a few other cases of this besides myself.End? What do you mean, end?
Yes, those things happen but for reasoning in detail, most of the time when these questions are asked it means you should clarify what you said and not just repeat what you did say.
What I was aiming for you to think about was about how to defuse it, which you did. But other than that, I asked about your other leads or finds - I was subtly pointing out that you should also pursue what you've found other than defending yourself and nothing but that.
Like your vote. To continue what you asked in glowy red and bold, Who do you suspect? Why are you asking others their opinions about the current state of events, and how will it aid you?
Ford:
So...unvote, and then what? I see you're voting him because of his questioning, his 'repeat of questions' there. But after clarification, where does it go? Branch out, mate. You comment on him voting someone, but then yours goes...Captain Ford, isn't it true that sheriff Notquitethere, may he rest in... the street, since we just kind of left his body there, was suspicious of you before nightfall yesterday? And isn't it true that this would give you prime motivation to kill him?The thing is,ReDeadEr, this question has been answered at least three times already by other people. Why did you bother asking it? Are you even reading the thread?
You also still haven't responded to the accusation I made yesterday. Why have you been lurking so heavily?
Where has it been answered? I might be missing something, but I honestly can't tell where you're talking about.
And the reason I've been lurking so heavily is a mixture of not remembering to check the thread and having just recently gotten new games.
Now that I reread, I can't find it anywhere. My brain is insistent that I wasn't the first person to say that, but ... what the hell, brain?
Anyway, that's more or less what I was expecting. Unvote. Now pick somebody and vote for them. If you're not voting, then it's like the town is down a player.
In the non-voting section?
ReDeadEr: I approve of your honesty, however I'd also like to point out that activity is the thing that runs games. Meaning, you've given a post detailing suspicions and such, but are you following up on them? Don't be lazy here, for if you join a Forum Mafia game, remember it runs on real time.
Your target has answered, what is your verdict? Or are you satisfied with it on Ford for some reason?
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 17, 2013, 07:28:43 am
Right, bad choice of words on my part. Considering I can't edit in this particular thread, replace "end with" with "acquire". Should sort that little problem out well enough.QuoteTiruin: Do all Mafia games end with this many "I already said this, check A,B,C." posts? Note this is not a sarcastic jab, there are a few other cases of this besides myself.End? What do you mean, end?
Following up on leads, I just finished writing and deleting a paragraph on why I'm asking questions of everyone, but not lingering on any single target. Deleted because it would have ruined any small chance of success I already had. I only have a few more people to root through, so once I'm done with that I'll get back to you on the why and the how. Estimate, two more replies.]
In other questions, didn't you vote for me on your last post? Yet in this post you didn't unvote and you now are voting for ReDeadEr. Probably a typo, but I would suggest fixing that one way or another.
Post by: Tiruin on January 17, 2013, 10:00:55 am
Yes I voted for you, but that was mostly pressure and to enable you to get back in the game. However, 'Deleted because it would have ruined any small chance of success I already had.'
About your target, you could go through day 1 and 2 focusing on the person you'd count as suspicious. But then when he's dead, what have you to go for but on other reads missed by the rest? Branch out is what I say. What have you to lose? Keep on asking! Don't hesitate to not ask. Any question has an answer, and that answer varies from person to person.
Also, using math...I believe we've only got ~8 hours left on the clock.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 17, 2013, 10:22:22 am
Post by: Captain Ford on January 17, 2013, 04:29:05 pm
Extend. Also, ReDeadEr, to break the tie.
Post by: Nerjin on January 17, 2013, 05:03:08 pm
“Rules is rules, there’s no way you’d be voted if ye weren’t scum ya bastard!” Claimed Captain Ford as he reached once again for ReDeadEr.
“No! Stay back damn it!” ReDeadEr cried as he reached for his gun. He never made it as two shots rang out.
The collected townsfolk gazed wildly around to see who pulled off the shot. It was both Captain Ford and Tiruin, the two who suspected ReDeadEr the most.
“Come on everyone… Let’s go search his house for Jimmy Pete’s things.” Said the Captain as he holstered his weapon.
After a very brief search of the house undeniable proof of ReDeadEr being a Regular Bandit was found. Furthermore a letter was found proving that only one more bandit remained in Jackelope. Unfortunately the name was obscured by a large blotch of ink, as well as the location of their hideout.
As darkness fell all of those assembled headed to their homes for what they knew might be the last time. One bandit was gone for good… Yet one still remained.
ReDeadEr was lynched! He was a Regular Bandit
Night will end 1/18/2013 at 5PM at the latest. PM your actions if there are any.
Post by: Nerjin on January 18, 2013, 06:07:30 pm
Day 3 will end 1/23/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 120 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Fraxert:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Burn_heal, Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Fraxert, Tiruin, Irony Owl
Post by: Captain Ford on January 18, 2013, 07:01:56 pm
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2013, 12:11:35 am
...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2013, 12:26:34 am
The post preceding this should've included what I am about to write but then a misclick occurred.
Day 3 - the usual time wherein things get spicy. Given the case, one mafioso is down.
@Town: Stay on your heels and remember what you've learned. You're more than halfway to your wincondition at the moment, but don't get cocky or overanalytical. As long as your enemy remains, whether it be one or two, this doesn't mean you should drop activity and rely on others to do your work for you.
Activity is crucial.
@Doc/!Doc - It is preferable if you not claim at this moment. While this isn't a written rule, it is accepted as the status quo on times like these where the NK has not occurred.
@Scum: You've lost a man, but don't fret. Sure, everything on your team lies in your hands, and sure, you're alone but remember to do as a townie does. Don't panic, act reasonable, and commit your survival to the team. As quoted from Shakerag (who I miss and where are you :/)
'With just one of you left, now it is of utmost importance to not get caught. It's a difficult line to walk. You have to be active enough to not look scummy, but at the same time not drop any scumtells while being active.'
And to add to my query, @ tie, what made you shift your vote Captain Ford?
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 01:22:06 am
Eveyone must be being slack, lol.
I'm being curt? What is your analysis of that?Not sure actually. Perhaps I thought you sounded nervous? I don’t think you’re nervous. Oh well.
Sorry about the decrease is post count. Been busier. Here are my thoughts:
Captain Ford I think can be fairly safely noted as being innocent, lol.
burn_heal: Explain more on your statement @ IronyOwl. How does it relate?IronyOwl was largely responsible for the killing of scientist, in my opinion. I’m taking IronyOwl’s own advice and “paying special attention to those who lynched him [scientist]”.
Fraxert I thought was mafia, but now I’m having second thoughts. Because ReDeadEr stated, along with Captain Ford, that he was suspicious of them:
Honestly, I'm most suspicious of either Fraxert or Captain Ford.Trying to get some heat on Captain Ford (who is innocent). But what about Fraxert? Does this mean he’s innocent? Would ReDeadEr FoS his own scum-mate? Distancing? hmmm…
Onyxjew: to be honest, I’m finding hard to read. What’s your read on IronyOwl?
Tiruin: acting like a good guy, but an experienced player. Nonetheless I’m leaning towards “OK”. What’s your read on Onyxjew?
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2013, 01:29:28 am
So...you vote Irony.burn_heal: Explain more on your statement @ IronyOwl. How does it relate?IronyOwl was largely responsible for the killing of scientist, in my opinion. I’m taking IronyOwl’s own advice and “paying special attention to those who lynched him [scientist]”.
Understandable.
Now, what are you going to ask? Post w/ vote only = people are going to ask about it. Post w/ vote and explanation, preferably along with something to start a conversation = That's the way.
So you've got your attention, seemingly, on IronyOwl. What will you do about it?
Quote
Captain Ford I think can be fairly safely noted as being innocent, lol.Yeah me too!
Why did you state this? Meaning, you're just stating your own opinion of yourself, lol.
Quote
Tiruin: acting like a good guy, but an experienced player. Nonetheless I’m leaning towards “OK”. What’s your read on Onyxjew?Good guy?! Good is only a label you folk use. Evil goes in that bag too. I'm methodically neutral!
Rep
My read? Newbie.
That read right there mystifies what alignment he actually is, but in his defense posts, he seems to be doing it from a townie viewpoint however he also seems to be lax in his procedure in scumhunting.
Can you explain your leads on everyone? Same question goes for Onyxjew944.
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2013, 01:36:45 am
@burn:
Fraxert I thought was mafia, but now I’m having second thoughts. Because ReDeadEr stated, along with Captain Ford, that he was suspicious of them:
Care to explain more about your suspicions? You suspected this person was Mafia because...? All I can infer is that you are judging him by RDE's actions.
Why so quick to single out Fraxert?
Next: Trying to get some heat on Captain Ford (who is innocent). But what about Fraxert? Does this mean he’s innocent? Would ReDeadEr FoS his own scum-mate? Distancing? hmmm…
Why do you believe CF is innocent? Why are you putting in mounds of questions to explain your thought process along with the evident ellipsis?
While I believe this is a way of explaining what you think, you should be straight to the point. Speculating openly is not a bad thing, but in this kind of method (What about...Does this mean...?!) is generally frowned upon and leads many to think you're dumping WIFOM all over.
Be firm and state what you believe.
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 02:01:19 am
So you've got your attention, seemingly, on IronyOwl. What will you do about it?IronyOwl Why were you so harsh on scientist on day 1? He's only newb like the rest of us. Are you going to use your influence to crush we inexperienced townies one by one?
Why did you state this? Meaning, you're just stating your own opinion of yourself, lol.Did you misread? I was talking about Captain Ford.
My post above was a collection of thoughts on each person left in the game. It may seem obvious to me that Captain Ford is innocent, but surely it can't hurt to state this "aloud"? For me, finding the bandits is a process of elimination.
Captain Ford led the attack against ReDeader. For this reason, I believe he is innocent. He can be eliminated from my suspect list.
In a post I quoted above, ReDeader stated that Fraxert along with Captain Ford were suspicious to him. I fraxert is innocent, I can't think of a good reason ReDeader would FoS him. Therefore, I think fraxert is innocent(ish).
Tiruin, you also voted against ReDeader, so I believe you are innocent.
...to me, this leaves 2 primary suspects: IronyOwl and OnyxJew. Which just so happens to be the number of mafia left!
Time for one of them to be lynched. I'm starting with IronyOwl.
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 02:12:25 am
Fraxert started the game verbose, but started lurking around the time scientist was getting lynched. This seemed suspicious to me.
However, after rereading, fraxert stated he would be busy later on. After reflection, I don’t think he deserves my vote now.
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 02:20:48 am
Captain Ford led the attack against ReDeader
Tiruin, you also voted against ReDeader
My mistake, it was Tiruin who led the attack and Captain Ford who followed (to avoid the tie).
Post by: IronyOwl on January 19, 2013, 03:41:23 am
Tiruin has already covered most of today's speech, but do remember that now we have the advantage of knowing ReDeadEr was scum. We can go back over what's already happened and pay special attention to his interactions (or lack thereof), should you feel the need.
If so, I would strongly recommend the LurkerTracker. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=86473.0) It's a wondrous tool that allows you to go through each individual player's posts, rather than digging through the thread in order or hunting around for your target.
Ford:
...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!This looks kind of like you're trying to buddy up to/draw out the doc, to be honest. Why so vocal and jubilant?
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
burn_heal:
IronyOwl was largely responsible for the killing of scientist, in my opinion. I’m taking IronyOwl’s own advice and “paying special attention to those who lynched him [scientist]”.This is an interesting assertion. Care to go into detail on why you feel this way?
IronyOwl Why were you so harsh on scientist on day 1? He's only newb like the rest of us. Are you going to use your influence to crush we inexperienced townies one by one?The bulk of this is contained/dependent on your answer to the above, but this post would be a lot more brutal if I was intending the latter.
Good use of pressure, though.
...to me, this leaves 2 primary suspects: IronyOwl and OnyxJew. Which just so happens to be the number of mafia left!The first part is sound reasoning. Don't let it turn into complacency, though.
Time for one of them to be lynched. I'm starting with IronyOwl.
Not so much for the second part, where you seem to imply there's still two scum and that just killing me and Onyx is a surefire path to victory. Rather convenient that you omit yourself, the other survivor who wasn't voting for or pressured by ReDeadEr, in this lazy plan of yours, isn't it?
fraxert, I don't think you've had a concrete suspicion all game. What are your reads on everyone?
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 04:11:22 am
Quote
IronyOwl was largely responsible for the killing of scientist, in my opinion. I’m taking IronyOwl’s own advice and “paying special attention to those who lynched him [scientist]”.This is an interesting assertion. Care to go into detail on why you feel this way?
In detail? Sure. Firstly, I’ll say that your earlier posts were very helpful and encouraging for all of us, so thankyou for your guidance. But we’re playing a game of Mafia here, aren’t we? Just because you are a good teacher, doesn’t mean you are an innocent one.
Sadly, I think you may be betraying us behind that smiling face on your avatar. I believe you were “gently” pushing us towards scientist’s lyching the whole time. Yep, I know I was sucked in alright.
It wasn’t until your damaging posts on Page 4 that the ball really got rolling against poor old scientist.
Check this out:
Ah yes, the noob death spiral. It's a tragic thing, really.
"I don't know what to do because nobody looks scummy" is lazy and scummy. The whole point of mafia is to find something scummy, not sit around waiting for someone to run out, waving their arms and screaming "I have a nightkill! I have a nightkill!" If you don't have any concrete suspicions, question seemingly innocuous things that might turn out anyway, including more RVS questions if necessary. You should never be sitting around with nothing to do.
"I realize this could be scummy but you've gotta believe me it's not" is also lazy and scummy. It's appealing to emotion or basically asking everyone to assume that you're town for no reason. If people suspect you, explain why their suspicions aren't especially sound or accept that they have valid reason to suspect you, then resume hunting for scum.
Trying to appear helpful, but all the time stabbing us in the back.
Quote
Rather convenient that you omit yourselfI omitted myself because I can be sure I’m not Mafia. Obviously. It’s not for me to go about stating my innocence, that’s for you to decide. Don’t think that simply “voting” me is going to sway everyone else into a bandwagon ride. Like you did with scientist.
What do you have to say for yourself, IronyOwl?
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 04:29:15 am
fraxert, I don't think you've had a concrete suspicion all game. What are your reads on everyone?
Speaking of concrete suspicions I haven’t heard any from you since you helped kill scientist.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 19, 2013, 04:59:39 am
So you begin with two small paragraphs of baseless "what if" and creative narrative, setting the scene for kind, helpful IronyOwl's sinister plotting and vicious betrayal. Awfully theatrical, isn't it? Especially for someone who's yet to explain why any of this would be so?QuoteIronyOwl was largely responsible for the killing of scientist, in my opinion. I’m taking IronyOwl’s own advice and “paying special attention to those who lynched him [scientist]”.This is an interesting assertion. Care to go into detail on why you feel this way?
In detail? Sure. Firstly, I’ll say that your earlier posts were very helpful and encouraging for all of us, so thankyou for your guidance. But we’re playing a game of Mafia here, aren’t we? Just because you are a good teacher, doesn’t mean you are an innocent one.
Sadly, I think you may be betraying us behind that smiling face on your avatar. I believe you were “gently” pushing us towards scientist’s lyching the whole time. Yep, I know I was sucked in alright.
It wasn’t until your damaging posts on Page 4 that the ball really got rolling against poor old scientist.Alright, let's get-
Check this out:Uh. Why? A single quote followed by a continuation of this narrative of yours isn't the same as an explanation for why something's true. Why is this "trying to appear helpful while stabbing us in the back," and why didn't you realize that until now?Ah yes, the noob death spiral. It's a tragic thing, really.
"I don't know what to do because nobody looks scummy" is lazy and scummy. The whole point of mafia is to find something scummy, not sit around waiting for someone to run out, waving their arms and screaming "I have a nightkill! I have a nightkill!" If you don't have any concrete suspicions, question seemingly innocuous things that might turn out anyway, including more RVS questions if necessary. You should never be sitting around with nothing to do.
"I realize this could be scummy but you've gotta believe me it's not" is also lazy and scummy. It's appealing to emotion or basically asking everyone to assume that you're town for no reason. If people suspect you, explain why their suspicions aren't especially sound or accept that they have valid reason to suspect you, then resume hunting for scum.
Trying to appear helpful, but all the time stabbing us in the back.
For instance, I could have responded to the above with something like "And here again you ply your treacherous lies, trying to rally the town against me with your fanciful stories." But, that wouldn't actually have explained why I think you're doing any of that stuff, would it?
But you're basically done with the day, and presumably you'd like everyone else to be done with the day also, wouldn't you? Or were you just stating that your vote was set for these reasons, have fun figuring out your own targets everyone else?QuoteRather convenient that you omit yourselfI omitted myself because I can be sure I’m not Mafia. Obviously. It’s not for me to go about stating my innocence, that’s for you to decide.
Don’t think that simply “voting” me is going to sway everyone else into a bandwagon ride. Like you did with scientist.If "voting" is in quotes to denote destroying your arguments and heavily incriminating you in the process, I'm inclined to disagree. If it just means literal voting that isn't really voting for some reason, probably not, but then, it doesn't take much to dig your own grave, as scientist (note the italics for added drama) would surely agree.
What do you have to say for yourself, IronyOwl?That it's kind of shameful that we got lucky D2 and scum overplayed their hand D3. I didn't do anything, but I'm unimpressed with your pawns, Bookthras. Unless it's fraxert after all in which case I'm unimpressed with your lurking pawns, and if it's Ford after all then GOD DAMN IT.
But, more likely I'm unimpressed with your pawns. Nice cajones going after the lurking IC, but too theatrical and baseless with it.
Speaking of concrete suspicions I haven’t heard any from you since you helped kill scientist.There was also my chewing out of Onyx and ReDead for active lurking. Unlike my vicious assault on scientist, incidentally, those ones contained FoS's and votes actually denoting suspicion. Otherwise yes, I've been shamefully absent.
Meanwhile, er. Do I bold and underline !!your!! name also or is that reserved for me? I always forget what's villain privileges and what's main character traits.
But anyway, after !!you!! cast the third vote for scientist, citing his earlier damning posts (and not, interestingly, anything to do with me), I see !!you!! were briefly suspicious of fraxert for not doing anything before jumping on me for supposedly engineering scientist's lynch. Do !!you!! feel this is an adequate number of suspicions and amount of scumhunting?
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 05:13:43 am
Awfully theatrical, isn't it?I've yet to hear any better theories from you.
Quote
lazy and scummy.I'll tell you what is lazy. Not posting. Simply attacking the person who attacks you. That, is what is lazy.
Quote
But you're basically done with the day, and presumably you'd like everyone else to be done with the day also, wouldn't you? Or were you just stating that your vote was set for these reasons, have fun figuring out your own targets everyone else?If I wanted the day to be done, I wouldn't have submitted my post so early in the day. People need time to chew things over. I could be wrong. Of course I could be wrong!
IronyOwl is being very defensive, don't you thinK? I still haven't seen any positive action from him, other than attacking me. (And of course, I am fair game.)
So who do you think is mafia, Ironyowl? Is your vote on me a “pressure vote” or do you actually think I’m a bandit? What do you think of Onyxjew? Fraxert? Who would you rather lynch out of the two?
Post by: Bookthras on January 19, 2013, 05:23:28 am
If so, I would strongly recommend the LurkerTracker. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=86473.0) It's a wondrous tool that allows you to go through each individual player's posts, rather than digging through the thread in order or hunting around for your target.
You can get a direct LurkerTracker result for this game by following or bookmarking this (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?sort=post&url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.0) link.
In general, you can get a LurkerTracker for any thread using http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?url=thread_url (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?url=thread_url), replacing for the thread_url where noted, or by clicking on the original post of the thread, and then following (or bookmarking) the javascript bookmarklet also linked on the main LukerTracker page (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.html):
Code: [Select]
javascript:window.location='http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?sort=post&url='+location.hrefThe LurkerTracker is your friend. Use the LurkerTracker.
Do not be fooled by imitations! be fooled by us!
PS: Irony, please don't use pink. It's pretty much unreadable for those of us not with a dark background, and incites bad habits on the newbies about colouring stuff in anything other than red and blue, which are the only meaningful colorus to use on this game.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 19, 2013, 06:07:00 am
Wow, you really do bite when you bite, don't you? None of this helpfulness anymore, gosh! Do I detect... anger? Oh dear.It's the bloodlust. Sometimes I really get into the rhythm and, well.
I'd strongly disagree that none of this is helpfulness anymore, though. Notably the small paragraph giving an explicit example of why actually explaining things is important, but pretty much all of it is instructive.
I'd also say it's less anger and more enjoying myself far too much. You did say you'd keep an eye out for that...
Uh. Did you just completely give up on explaining your arguments in favor of "Well I don't hear any better ideas from you!"?Awfully theatrical, isn't it?I've yet to hear any better theories from you.
If you'd like a better theory, I do have one, though: I recognized that !!scientist!! had given up instantly and was thus in a downward spiral of getting himself lynched, and so did my best to explain why and knock him out of that without overwhelming him. That failed, as it's wont to do, and so much later you decided, hey, the IC's lurking, let's pin scientist's lynch on him! Only the IC stopped lurking so that didn't go so well.
So yeah, that's my theory, and I'm willing to elaborate on it as much as is necessary. Now what?
It really is. Not much I can do about the not posting part other than continue doing better in the future, but for the latter part, I'm questioning two people other than you and have been explaining myself rather well, I'd say. Do you have any reason to call my case on you lazy beyond the fact that you voted me first?Quotelazy and scummy.I'll tell you what is lazy. Not posting. Simply attacking the person who attacks you. That, is what is lazy.
Okay, so now you're trying to convince others and even scumhunt me below, but it looks like you've completely abandoned your original accusations in favor of trying to lynch me on defending against said accusations.QuoteBut you're basically done with the day, and presumably you'd like everyone else to be done with the day also, wouldn't you? Or were you just stating that your vote was set for these reasons, have fun figuring out your own targets everyone else?If I wanted the day to be done, I wouldn't have submitted my post so early in the day. People need time to chew things over. I could be wrong. Of course I could be wrong!
IronyOwl is being very defensive, don't you thinK? I still haven't seen any positive action from him, other than attacking me. (And of course, I am fair game.)
What do you mean by "positive action?"
So who do you think is mafia, Ironyowl? Is your vote on me a “pressure vote” or do you actually think I’m a bandit? What do you think of Onyxjew? Fraxert? Who would you rather lynch out of the two?You. Less likely Fraxert, and I consider the other three physically possible but not worth looking into until I get around to reexamining the exact circumstances surrounding ReDeadEr's lynch to see if bussing would have been more feasible than I assume.
The vote on you is a lynchvote. I may still change my mind, but more likely than not I'll see you dead at day's end.
Onyx I don't have a particularly good read on, but he's been analytical and seemed fairly active. Er, I'm sure there was a reason I didn't suspect him, but now I can't think of it. Rereading...
His meta-nightkill stuff was obviously bad, but it seemed genuinely bad, not scummy bad. The fact that he owned up to that helps, of course. More of the same later for general suspicions/screwups, leaning town on him. Has been a lot less active than I'd remembered other than that, though.
Alright, so my bad- I don't actually have a reason to explicitly not suspect Onyx. This is why complacency is bad. That said, I am still leaning town on him, though I'd like more out of him. I think my earlier conclusion that he was town until proven otherwise was just my certainty that the last scum was you or fraxert. Again, complacency can be dangerous like that.
For fraxert, I see lurking and... rereading again, I forget if he was actively suspicious. I think so...
Oh right, I remember now. He voted !!scientist!!, unvoted when I called him on not really doing anything with the vote, voted me for unclear reasons, then unvoted. That's basically his contributions to the game. I also find his "If I was scum I'd screw up" answers slightly unsettling.
So, a lurker. Not much of a second suspicion, but I guess it's a good starting point.
So, that was productive. I now suspect fraxert less and Onyx more.
Book: Sorry. Didn't think a few pronouns would matter, especially since I was obviously mocking him a bit.
Post by: Tiruin on January 19, 2013, 09:25:14 am
Clarifying...
Not a good way to start a case...This can be taken two ways - IC//Experienced.So you've got your attention, seemingly, on IronyOwl. What will you do about it?IronyOwl Why were you so harsh on scientist on day 1? He's only newb like the rest of us. Are you going to use your influence to crush we inexperienced townies one by one?
Now Irony is a fair and noble player. He will not use his IC status to [CRUSH_NEWBIES]. An IC is still a player like anyone else. Don't be afraid to attack them...on a better premise than their experience, with this wording. Mostly, helpfulness = him playing as an IC. Helpfulness also doesn't mean that he's...err, how do you see it? Helpfulness/Unhelpfulness =/= Scum/town, and for me, is a nulltell. There are players like that...
Quote
Captain Ford [...] against ReDeader. [...]Next, this kind of thinking goes both ways. Just because people voted for a player, who is a mafioso, this doesn't apparently clear them. See: Bussing, Drive under a bus.
Tiruin[...] against ReDeader[...] I believe you [both] are innocent.
Your innocent meter on me and Ford raised because...we voted for RDE, and he turned up Mafia? Could you explain that?
Quote
this leaves 2 primary suspects: IronyOwl and OnyxJew. Which just so happens to be the number of mafia left!...You do know there are 2 mafioso, and 1 just got lynched right?
Lastly, (busy atm, have enough to address this)
Quote
IronyOwl is being very defensive, don't you thinK? I still haven't seen any positive action from him, other than attacking me. (And of course, I am fair game.)Err, what's wrong with being defensive? I've seen lots of people being defensive this game...actually, all games. People become defensive in their own unique way.
What's wrong with that? (Also, pointing that out to others without any explanation and alluding it to something doesn't help sharpen that point you're trying to make.)
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 19, 2013, 11:02:36 am
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 19, 2013, 11:27:11 am
Onyxjew: to be honest, I’m finding hard to read. What’s your read on IronyOwl?
Can you explain your leads on everyone? Same question goes for Onyxjew944.
Both of your answers will be condensed into the same answer as burn_heal's is a sub-topic. Alright, this could take a while. I don't have much concrete, but as with everyone, I do have suspicions and annoyances.
Captain Ford Nothing much on him, he openly called it luck when he got ReDeadEr. Shooting down a mafioso does help him be called innocent, and the fact that he has been pretty active as far as I can tell leaves me with little reason to chase him. Not completely off the list, as no one is until they're dead.
Ironyowl I don't remember too much of use or import from you. All that comes to mind is that cavalry charge against scientist, and the newly heated argument with burn_heal. Basically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses. Nothing useful or concrete from either of you throughout all that. I wouldn't call it a wall of text, but I'm staying away from that mess for now.
burn_heal You are mainly characterized by that argument I mentioned above. I don't really remember much about you earlier.
Tiruin He's proven useful. Nothing he has done has been without reason or logic, if memory serves. So he's about as clear as Ford. Which is to say on the list, but not quite worthy of examination just yet.
Fraxert Now you, are lacking in controversy or in fame. I'm putting you through the LurkerTracker now. Yup, nothing. Twelve posts, but the last three were all useless, by my terms. Everything before those three useless bits were from page one and were lynching scientist. That's definitely interesting. Care to explain your inactivity, Fraxert?
Post by: burn_heal on January 19, 2013, 04:11:01 pm
Your innocent meter on me and Ford raised because...we voted for RDE, and he turned up Mafia? Could you explain that?In such a close vote, I gather it would only ever be an extremely bold and rare move to vote your own mafia. A mafia wouldn’t have done it - hence I think you and Captain Ford are innocent. At least, that’s good enough for me at this stage.
...You do know there are 2 mafioso, and 1 just got lynched right?THERE WERE ONLY TWO MAFIOSO?? Oh s**t. There goes my whole bloody theory. I thought there were three! So we’re only looking for one then? Oh dear.
Quote
Err, what's wrong with being defensive? I've seen lots of people being defensive this game...actually, all games. People become defensive in their own unique way.
What's wrong with that?
I thought that was a scumtell? The main thing bothering me about IronyOwl at this point is that I have no idea what his thoughts are about other players. And his lurking; however IronyOwl did say he was busy, and there’s nothing you can do about RL business I suppose.
Tiruin, have you played any mafia games with IronyOwl before? If so, do you have any idea how he would behave if he were mafia?
Captain Ford: What’s you’re guilt-meter saying about Onyxjew?
I think I need to go back in my cave and rethink the situation. Sorry about the craziness.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 19, 2013, 04:18:43 pm
...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
Sure. The vote was tied up until I changed my vote to ReDeadEr at the last second (within 30 minutes of day end). If I were scum, that would have been a ludicrously bad move, especially when I could have let it go to a no-lynch.
That makes me an obvious target for the last remaining bandit. Any person who's confirmed town (or nearly so) is one less person who can attract suspicion away from them. The doctor was smart enough to see it the same way.
OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim.
I realize I can't prove I'm not the last bandit. From your point of view, it's possible that I bussed my scumbuddy. But that would mean I was willing to gamble that you people would actually behave the way I wanted you to.
And that's a stupid gamble. Seriously.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 19, 2013, 06:26:36 pm
Ford:Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."-snip-This looks kind of like you're trying to buddy up to/draw out the doc, to be honest. Why so vocal and jubilant?
Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.
But that doesn't mean I'm not happy he saved my life. :)
Captain Ford: What’s you’re guilt-meter saying about Onyxjew?His only interaction with ReDeadEr is this statement: "I concur with burn_heal and ReDeadEr (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3939384#msg3939384)".
Which happens to point out that both you and ReDeadEr were pushing the same argument. There's no issue with that, though.
After looking over the back and forth between you two (burn_heal and IronyOwl), I'm not entirely sure what to think. You both seem to quite strongly suspect the other.
I've had a gut feeling about burn_heal since the beginning. But going over the thread, I've begun to see why he's seen so little pressure up to now. If he is a bandit, then he's actually very good at not looking like one. I'm curious to know why IronyOwl suspects him.
IronyOwl:
What do you have to say for yourself, IronyOwl?That it's kind of shameful that we got lucky D2 and scum overplayed their hand D3.
What did you mean by "scum overplayed their hand D3"? You obviously see something very damning about burn_heal. What is it?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 19, 2013, 07:23:57 pm
And to add to my query, @ tie, what made you shift your vote Captain Ford?
Umm...is it not obvious? No-lynches are bad for town. I picked ReDeadEr just because he was contributing so very little. I actually thought (at least at one time) that he was the town doctor.
...which only confirms my belief that scum and doctors tend to look alike.
Tiruin: Might as well return the favor. You happened to be on the lynch of ReDeadEr, and we both know that doesn't clear you in any way.
...actually, I'm more interested in your opinion of IronyOwl. Both Onyxjew and burn_heal seem to think that IronyOwl steamrolled over Scientist. They can't both be scum. Do you think IronyOwl may have been leading that lynch?
IronyOwl: What do you think of Tiruin? Do you think he expected ReDeadEr to end up being lynched?
Post by: Tiruin on January 20, 2013, 12:03:38 am
...There were only two votes. Also, look at Jim Groovester's last BM - I was scum there and look what happened to Flying Dice (who I thoroughly miss seeing on these boards...)Your innocent meter on me and Ford raised because...we voted for RDE, and he turned up Mafia? Could you explain that?In such a close vote, I gather it would only ever be an extremely bold and rare move to vote your own mafia. A mafia wouldn’t have done it - hence I think you and Captain Ford are innocent. At least, that’s good enough for me at this stage.
Also, if we're innocent in your eye, shall you stop questioning us? Nay, I say. Keep on asking things. But if you have a strong enough read, then ensure it!
Ford
Quote
Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."So..you derived the idea that 'I lynched the scumbag. I'm going to get the NK.'
Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.
Why?
You thought the doctor would claim at that time instead of acting on his own ideals,
Why?
Quote
...actually, I'm more interested in your opinion of IronyOwl. Both Onyxjew and burn_heal seem to think that IronyOwl steamrolled over Scientist. They can't both be scum. Do you think IronyOwl may have been leading that lynch?I believe that the vote has no correlation to the person at that time. Sure, Onyx and burn think that Irony 'steamrolled' scientist, but the votee did not seem to defend himself properly, or pick a convincing argument there. The two people you've picked out also seem to be deriving who Irony is on that certain lynch.
Its like...everyone doing so over the lynch instead of analyzing a person's posts. Also, Irony couldn't have 'led' the lynch if there was noone else to follow.
Lastly, why are you going along on possibilities instead of attacking what posts people did? I see a lot of hypothetical areas, which only lead to what we've seen - not you pointing out the essence of how we got there.
Post by: burn_heal on January 20, 2013, 12:20:24 am
If you'd like a better theory, I do have one, though: I recognized that !!scientist!! had given up instantly and was thus in a downward spiral of getting himself lynched, and so did my best to explain why and knock him out of that without overwhelming him. That failed, as it's wont to do, and so much later you decided, hey, the IC's lurking, let's pin scientist's lynch on him! Only the IC stopped lurking so that didn't go so well.This is more what I was wanting to hear, thankyou. Trust me about this point - I would not take on an IC if I were mafia. Yes, yes, I know... WIFOM and all that... but I'm usually not a gutsy person. I was told to be active. I was told to be bold - so that's what I'm doing. If you have a problem with that, go ahead and vote me.
Quote
Do you have any reason to call my case on you lazy beyond the fact that you voted me first?I suppose on rethinking you can't call someone "lazy" if they have. I just felt like I was being punished be you for being active. Having slept on it and rereading, I can see your still trying to help. The truth is no one had really questioned you at all until I did. I'm going to wait and see what others make of your post. I have learnt one thing from last night - you are a damn good mafia player.
Quote
Okay, so now you're trying to convince others and even scumhunt me below, but it looks like you've completely abandoned your original accusations in favor of trying to lynch me on defending against said accusations.scumhunting. You have been questioning people - so I suppose that constitutes scumhunting, yes. But I felt like I knew nothing of your views. This seemed scummy to me. That has been rectified in your last post.
What do you mean by "positive action?"
You are obviously a very good player of this game. Knowing what your thoughts are will be key to us finding out whether you're scum, if that's the case. Even if I die getting this information out of you, it may be worth it in the long run.
Quote
You. Less likely Fraxert, and I consider the other three physically possible but not worth looking into until I get around to reexamining the exact circumstances surrounding ReDeadEr's lynch to see if bussing would have been more feasible than I assume.This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear from you.
Quote
The vote on you is a lynchvote. I may still change my mind, but more likely than not I'll see you dead at day's end.Very well then.
Quote
So, that was productive. I now suspect fraxert less and Onyx more.I would have to agree with you on this. One of the reasons is ReDeadEr's post I examined earlier. Onyx has seemed active, but he's also seemed to me to be a bit cautious. I'm going to analyze Onyx's posts a bit more.
Post by: burn_heal on January 20, 2013, 12:28:53 am
Post by: burn_heal on January 20, 2013, 12:45:19 am
Fraxert If you were mafia, how would you act the first day?Probably pick fights.
This comment is interesting.
Fraxert hasn't been posting much lately, which is a worry. Is he deliberately lurking staying out of the heat so that he look the opposite of what he thinks is mafia-like behaviour?
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 20, 2013, 08:37:38 am
Note:
I do not think Irony was trying to [NOOB_CRUSH]. I said he led the charge, I never said me and burn didn't follow along almost blindly. It was a community blunder, I don't blame Irony for it. He made the more damning posts, but scientist didn't exactly do the best job of defending himself.
Summary:
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...
Post by: Captain Ford on January 20, 2013, 04:07:12 pm
FordQuoteBecause I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."So..you derived the idea that 'I lynched the scumbag. I'm going to get the NK.'
Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.
Why?
...I'm sorry. What isn't logical about that?
Quote
You thought the doctor would claim at that time instead of acting on his own ideals,
Why?
I thought the doctor might claim. That isn't the same thing. This is a game full of newbies. How unlikely is it for somebody to make that mistake?
Quote
All good points.Quote...actually, I'm more interested in your opinion of IronyOwl. Both Onyxjew and burn_heal seem to think that IronyOwl steamrolled over Scientist. They can't both be scum. Do you think IronyOwl may have been leading that lynch?I believe that the vote has no correlation to the person at that time. Sure, Onyx and burn think that Irony 'steamrolled' scientist, but the votee did not seem to defend himself properly, or pick a convincing argument there. The two people you've picked out also seem to be deriving who Irony is on that certain lynch.
Its like...everyone doing so over the lynch instead of analyzing a person's posts. Also, Irony couldn't have 'led' the lynch if there was noone else to follow.
Quote
Lastly, why are you going along on possibilities instead of attacking what posts people did? I see a lot of hypothetical areas, which only lead to what we've seen - not you pointing out the essence of how we got there.
...because I'm the one responsible for both lynches? It was my question that made Scientist squirm. Afterwards I didn't think he was scum, but I wasn't surprised that he accumulated votes.
But you have a point, so I went back and investigated who put their votes where. Guess what I found?
Tiruin: All of the hints you've been giving us seem to be pointing to you. Perhaps you're just being too helpful for your own good?
1. You told me to look at how we got here. Well, you were on Scientist's lynch. And for very weak reasons.
2. You've been very clear about the fact that lynching scum doesn't make either of us town. Which is great, because it makes you look town (for discrediting yourself) while also discrediting me.
And then why are you tunneling me? Sure, if you're town, I'm worth investigating, and if you're scum, I'm worth discrediting. But why are you ignoring everyone else? You've addressed burn_heal once. But otherwise, you're focusing all your attention on the person who is least likely to be scum.
You only voted ReDeadEr after I unvoted him, creating a tie vote at a point close to the deadline. You wouldn't have expected me to vote him again, would you? It was a great way to distance yourself.
Overall, you've been very helpful. But I never got the sense that you were doing anything else. It looks to me like you were just gliding along on your IC status without contributing any scumhunting of your own, or getting involved in any arguments. Heck, even your lynch vote on ReDeadEr sounds like you were giving advice to your scumbuddy.
I've been suspicious of everybody, but right now, you're really pinging on my scumdar.
Post by: Tiruin on January 21, 2013, 04:24:55 am
Will still be able to post though.
Interesting strategem Ford, however I'd like you to put down quotes to fortify your reasoning, especially ones which pertain to your points.
Firstly, you're evading.
Quote
Because I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."I asked you to explain it, then you rebound the question back to me...Hence me asking it. I want to see your reasoning.
Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.
We're looking at things from different viewpoints.
Nextly, why would someone claim doctor after a non-NK day? Explain your reasoning on why, please. Enlighten me as to the difference of being in a newbie filled area and its relation to that mistake.
Besides, something catches my eye.
Quote
It was my question that made Scientist squirm. Afterwards I didn't think he was scum, but I wasn't surprised that he accumulated votes.What. You didn't think he was scum, so what did you do afterwards? If I was to use your reasoning: You unvoted both the lynched targets, then revoted at a more opportune time, obviously someone else other than keep it at a tie.
Your reason?
So, +!!scientist!!+ to prevent shenanigans. Sorry, I don't think you're scum. But a nolynch would be worse. I hope you hang out in the deadchat.
Also, Oppose Extension. I'll reverse that if there's suddenly a lot of support for an extension in the next hour, but better safe than sorry.
Irregardless, you use weak foundations for your case and you poke at the rest who voted for scientist using the idea of why they voted for him. So what if my vote was on scientist? A weak case, surely - upheld by my inability to post during then and the lack of an extension. What piques my curiosity is you pointing that out and using scientist's township as your poker.
Why are you preemptively fearing an extension if it would forward your ideas? Doubt, probably, but still answer the question please.
Spoiler: On lynching scum (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tunneling? (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: On votes (click to show/hide)
I believe you're grasping at straws here.
Quote
It looks to me like you were just gliding along on your IC status without contributing any scumhunting of your own, or getting involved in any arguments. Heck, even your lynch vote on ReDeadEr sounds like you were giving advice to your scumbuddy.And the first sentence is an insult to me. I DO NOT USE MY STATUS, NOR WOULD I RIDE ON IT TO AVOID ANYTHING IN GAME. How hollow would my words be if I'm not doing any scumhunting?
That, sir, is discrediting.
Though, you do bring up a reasonable point. The count is at 5:1 now, and I want to see activity at this point.
Fraxert: where are you?
Onyx
Summary:Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...
So that means you're aiming to claim repentance because of his role? Quick to take back what you've once meant there.
Burn
So where are the results you're talking about? Does the number of scum matter?
So then what?Your innocent meter on me and Ford raised because...we voted for RDE, and he turned up Mafia? Could you explain that?In such a close vote, I gather it would only ever be an extremely bold and rare move to vote your own mafia. A mafia wouldn’t have done it - hence I think you and Captain Ford are innocent. At least, that’s good enough for me at this stage.
Supposing IO is the one to be lynched today and turns up town [otherwise, game win], what will you do then? You think me and Ford are innocent....what, 100%?
Your vote has stuck on IronyOwl, what else will you do with the rest?
Quote
Theory? Enlighten us....You do know there are 2 mafioso, and 1 just got lynched right?THERE WERE ONLY TWO MAFIOSO?? Oh s**t. There goes my whole bloody theory. I thought there were three! So we’re only looking for one then? Oh dear.
Quote
...What does the last sentence bolding mean? Being defensive is a scumtell...err, depending on what is being stated. Being defensive in itself isn't a scumtell.QuoteErr, what's wrong with being defensive? I've seen lots of people being defensive this game...actually, all games. People become defensive in their own unique way.
What's wrong with that?
I thought that was a scumtell? The main thing bothering me about IronyOwl at this point is that I have no idea what his thoughts are about other players. And his lurking; however IronyOwl did say he was busy, and there’s nothing you can do about RL business I suppose.
Tiruin, have you played any mafia games with IronyOwl before? If so, do you have any idea how he would behave if he were mafia?
Captain Ford: What’s you’re guilt-meter saying about Onyxjew?
I think I need to go back in my cave and rethink the situation. Sorry about the craziness.
Next, why are you prodding everyone on their reads on everyone else? Are you too timid to give your own?
Lastly...
Quote
I would not take on an IC if I were mafia-_-
I believe I still haven't reached out to you. In my IC voice, in a real game you should stand up and take a stand. The BM is all about learning Mafia, the win/lose doesn't count here but what you've learned! Just like highschool. This...somehow goes against your idea of vote sticking on Irony.
Alright, what I see from this is you're alluding the ICs to experienced veterans and are afraid to...attack them? Why so? What is gutsy about that? Even those of knowledge fail from time to time, and I believe that no IC in the history of the BMs would ever give up teaching by the trial of fire as well as the trial of water. Meaning: why are you being reluctant?
I've seen a lot of declarative statements regarding you and IO, but where is your own investigation on him? Restate: Why ask their reads instead of pushing your own?
You are you afraid that we'll catch you, bandito?
Post by: IronyOwl on January 21, 2013, 09:06:05 am
Basically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.Care to elaborate?
This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?
burn_heal:
I thought that was a scumtell? The main thing bothering me about IronyOwl at this point is that I have no idea what his thoughts are about other players. And his lurking; however IronyOwl did say he was busy, and there’s nothing you can do about RL business I suppose.Depends on what you mean. Defensiveness is a scumtell because scum tend to be a lot jumpier and on edge than townies. Do you perceive jumpiness or edginess that seems to imply that I'm scum with something to hide and reasons to panic a bit at being questioned, or are you using "defensiveness" more broadly and less usefully in this sense?
I think I need to go back in my cave and rethink the situation. Sorry about the craziness.Take care. That's what fraxert (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3938164#msg3938164) did D1, and we haven't heard much of him since.
Then why didn't you start with questioning my reads and pointing out my inactivity, instead of explaining how I was stabbing everyone in the back and a logical lynch choice for not helping to lynch ReDeadEr?QuoteOkay, so now you're trying to convince others and even scumhunt me below, but it looks like you've completely abandoned your original accusations in favor of trying to lynch me on defending against said accusations.scumhunting. You have been questioning people - so I suppose that constitutes scumhunting, yes. But I felt like I knew nothing of your views. This seemed scummy to me. That has been rectified in your last post.
What do you mean by "positive action?"
Whatever happened to those original accusations, by the way?
You are obviously a very good player of this game. Knowing what your thoughts are will be key to us finding out whether you're scum, if that's the case. Even if I die getting this information out of you, it may be worth it in the long run.This is good town reasoning.
I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.QuoteYou. Less likely Fraxert, and I consider the other three physically possible but not worth looking into until I get around to reexamining the exact circumstances surrounding ReDeadEr's lynch to see if bussing would have been more feasible than I assume.This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear from you.
Ford:
What did you mean by "scum overplayed their hand D3"? You obviously see something very damning about burn_heal. What is it?The certainty and deliberateness with which he's pushing a bullshit argument. He didn't say "IO's been quiet, too quiet, I suspect him" and then start questioning me or anything reasonable like that. Instead, he:
-Blamed me for scientist's lynch, despite the fact that I never actually said he was scum or voted him; he, meanwhile, was one of the pivotal votes lynching him.
-Implied that, hey, Ford and Tiruin lynched scum, scum FoS'd fraxert, therefore we should kill the other two, end of story.
-Used veeeeeeeeery elaborate, certain storytelling to try to build his case. You could have written an opera with some of the language he was using to describe my nefarious scheming and treacherous plots.
Altogether, it looked very, very much like an attempt to make me look bad and then lynch me, not genuine conviction or suspicion. In other words, scum trying to go for the kill.
IronyOwl: What do you think of Tiruin? Do you think he expected ReDeadEr to end up being lynched?Rereading...
Hm. He seems ICy and at times rambling wall-of-texty. It's not impossible, but I find it hard to believe he'd give up his juicy Onyx vote to vote his partner at the last second like that. Not realizing there was so little time left and not being able to unvote without looking suspicious is more viable, but still not something I'd count on.
Definitely leaning town.
Fraaaaaaaaaaaaxeeeeeeeeeert!
Hi.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 21, 2013, 11:04:31 am
OnyxEeyup. I said it's all of our fault. The acronym tag was a bit of a mistake in the BBCode, my bad. I typed that a little fast and missed a end bracket. I am blaming the lot of us. I- Hang on, my bad. Irony didn't vote +‼scientist‼+. I should start fact-checking more often in these things. Looking back, I did notice this thread got a lot more... serious.Summary:Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...
IronyOwl
Onyxjew:It seems like both of you are arguing back and forth like water sloshing in a bucket. In less metaphorical terms, nothingBasically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.Care to elaborate?
This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?
Still waiting on Fraxert. Anyone know why he's been off for this long?
Post by: Tiruin on January 21, 2013, 01:12:24 pm
TiruinIts been serious from the start, mate.OnyxEeyup. I said it's all of our fault. The acronym tag was a bit of a mistake in the BBCode, my bad. I typed that a little fast and missed a end bracket. I am blaming the lot of us. I- Hang on, my bad. Irony didn't vote +‼scientist‼+. I should start fact-checking more often in these things. Looking back, I did notice this thread got a lot more... serious.Summary:Woah with the acronym tags, cowboy. You're blaming Irony, scientist, burn and...yourself?
I am not blaming Ironyowl for the death of +‼scientist‼+. I am blaming +‼scientist‼+, , burn_heal, and Ironyowl. And I do not care about that event in relation to current suspicions, too much noob, not enough certainty of scuminess. Still waiting for Fraxert to respond...
You sound...
...pretty lax with your statements. Aggressively-passive, perhaps?
IronyOwlOnyxjew:It seems like both of you are arguing back and forth like water sloshing in a bucket. In less metaphorical terms, nothingBasically a stack of defenses and blind rage-fueled offenses.Care to elaborate?
This also mentions what you've seen of me, but not what your read is. Raging scum? Defensive townie? Neutral but not worth questioning? What?iswas getting done. I see the situation got itself fixed recently, I was going with a neutral read on account of that sh*tstorm. I didn't want to get wrapped up in that situation. Currently, I'm still on the fence about you. I don't see anything out of the ordinary that jumps out at me as scummy, so I'll leave you be. For now.
Newbie-tells by the bucket, is there any reason why you're checking for scummy tells and not prodding for them in the most recent post?
In a normal game, most players would know enough to cover their tracks from the casual observer. Next, mistakes like your mix-and-match could and would cost you your life because these things are serious, especially if you use them in your case and then get your facts wrong.
Why do you keep on rebounding on what you've said before and note that this game just got 'more serious'?
Nerjin: Votecount & Timecount please.
Also, request a call for replacement for fraxert - if any are available. He has been gone for...5 days in relation to my timezone. :/
Still waiting on Fraxert. Anyone know why he's been off for this long?I'm sure if any of us knew, we'd have said. I can guess - RL, mostly. :P
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 21, 2013, 02:17:01 pm
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
With all that out of the way, and Fraxert on nigh-permanent hiatus, I'm off to more pathetically amateur scum-hunting. Joy.
Tiruin Out of curiosity, where is the line between acceptably defensive and scummily defensive actually drawn? I've seen some queer situations built out of that maddeningly blurred line.
burn_heal Now that the spat with Irony is somewhat resolved, what do you plan on doing now?
IronyOwl
I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.Which answers and who were you asking?
Captain Ford You are most likely Town, based entirely on how that vote worked out. I say this not because you voted Scum, but because you voted Scum at a time when it would have been incredibly simple to not vote Scum and still look Town. Yet it would probably be one of the more enjoyable ways to lose if you had bussed ReDeadEr. On an unrelated note, you recently declared some fair points against Tiruin, is there anyone else who has sparked a blip on that scumdar of yours?
As to that Captain Ford fanboy spiel I just unleashed, I probably wouldn't have done something that bold if there were still two scum left, as it would have been disastrous. Question for the ICs, does the blunt stating of my positive opinion of another player when there is only one Mafioso left make either of us look bad, or does that fall under the jurisdiction of:
I believe I still haven't reached out to you. In my IC voice, in a real game you should stand up and take a stand. The BM is all about learning Mafia, the win/lose doesn't count here but what you've learned! Just like highschool. This...somehow goes against your idea of vote sticking on Irony.
If I'm lavishing the board in noob tells, Tiruin, I intend to use that apparent naivete to the fullest.
Post by: Nerjin on January 21, 2013, 10:37:35 pm
Day 3 will end 1/23/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 43 hours left.
NOTICE: MY INTERNET IS BEING A BIT WONKY RIGHT NOW! DAY MAY END A BIT LATER THAN STATED BUT DO NOT COUNT ON IT!!!!
Also: I will put about an alert of needed replacement on Fraxert.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin: Captain Ford,
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Fraxert,
Post by: Captain Ford on January 21, 2013, 11:52:22 pm
Spoiler: Part 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Part 2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Part 3 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Part 4 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Part 5 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: In Conclusion (click to show/hide)
tl;dr; I gave you a chance to prove me wrong. Instead, you threw up a (really flimsy) smokescreen and yelled at me.
I'm completely flabbergasted. I really don't know what to make of this.
P.S. Open all of the spoilers at once and imagine what this would have looked like if I hadn't put it in spoilers. If that makes your brain hurt, imagine how mine feels.
Oh, and Extend Please. I'm not waiting until the last minute this time.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 22, 2013, 12:03:40 am
Post by: Tiruin on January 22, 2013, 01:47:58 am
@Part 2: That was in my IC voice - addressing any and all variables. I addressed the presence of a Doc as Doc/!Doc, because if I'm not mistaken, the ! before the name is like a...err, something disclaiming the presence of it.
@Part 1: You didn't really explain it. I was asking why you'd insert the idea of a doc straight off. You're skirting the edges of logic there, when I was asking you directly why you'd put the idea that scum would preferably NK you instead of anyone else. Because you put down the lynch vote? And your reason: tie break.
And this line 'But that would mean I was willing to gamble that you people would actually behave the way I wanted you to.' confuses me in that link @ Part 2.
Also, it does seem everyone but me understands it, because it seems that I'm the only one proceeding on your line as everyone else is doing theirs.
What you're evading is this: Why did you think you were going to be night killed? Why bring that prospect up and make something big about it?
@Part 3: ...Well, you're getting part of my point. I did say to look at how we got here.
But you skewed it.
Quote
Lastly, why are you going along on possibilities instead of attacking what posts people did? I see a lot of hypothetical areas, which only lead to what we've seen - not you pointing out the essence of how we got there.And you're still continuing on that tangent.
You hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival? No. His survival depended on himself, and - right, lets settle that regardless of my activity RL or my timezone, that was a weak vote - so what? Its like, you're blaming me for something so inconceivable that it was partly//mostly my fault he's dead - muchly exaggerated when you keep on pointing back to that vote. Let me try to see it your way: You're alluding that one token idea to how we got here. What does scientist have to do with this situation right now?!
Perhaps...I may be reconsidering this too far, but it seems like you're attacking everyone who doesn't think you're smoothly town. You haven't explained much your way, in regard to my question on you > lines along I SURVIVED THE NIGHT KILL!
Quote from: This makes up the crux of my statements on you, Ford
Utter jubilance. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3961939#msg3961939) As if you're trying to either draw fire from a threat that does or doesn't exist and making a big thing about it when nothing new surfaced except for the lack of the NK!
You beat around the bush. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3963968#msg3963968) Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,Spoiler: Like what I've been asking for (click to show/hide)
Some of your parts aim at twisting information which is blatantly obvious. @ Part 4: I made no mention of RDE, specifically in that sentence. I said My aims were not to discredit anyone which pertains to your claim of me discrediting you. Where is it, that I am discrediting you in relation to alignment?
Finally, for brevity of this post, 'You've been discrediting the result of the last lynch since the day began. I seriously can't believe you're asking me this. It's like we aren't playing the same game.'
Opinions without quotes along with an aloof threat. How can I obviously discredit what the mod posted in RED and ITALICS? I can't see what you're getting at at all. Besides, if I'm discrediting RDE's recent flip, don't you think others would've caught onto it right now? Know what I'm talking about, and its mostly not on what is in your five-part thesis against the holistic me.
Spoiler: Lastly (click to show/hide)
{This is what you'd usually expect in a game where every minor detail is picked on between players. Usually, it is best to summarize what you're pointing out, in short concise sentences for the rest to catch on. Mostly, the person you're dueling with will track all of your words anyway. OOC: I appreciate what you did there Ford. :)
This and the paragraph above this has no relation to our argument.}
Yeah, me doing my IC voice...finally choosing to separate it in case of misconceptions between voices.
Post by: Shakerag on January 22, 2013, 10:04:05 am
@Part 2: That was in my IC voice - addressing any and all variables. I addressed the presence of a Doc as Doc/!Doc, because if I'm not mistaken, the ! before the name is like a...err, something disclaiming the presence of it.[This is why I give IC advice/commentary in brackets. Makes sure there isn't any confusion. Also, putting an exclamation mark in front of something negates it, so you'd read that as "Doc/(not)Doc". Like as in "!=" meaning "not equal".]
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 22, 2013, 03:49:46 pm
Quote
I know that you said 'it looks to you like', and that was not yelling (except in the mindset of reading words, technically), but me posting down in easily readable letters of my intention.Writing in capitalized letters is the internet way of yelling. It's not a Simple Machine forum thing, it is a widely accepted rule of the internet.
Because THIS IS YELLING AT YOU.
This is getting a bloody point across.
Post by: Nerjin on January 22, 2013, 05:21:47 pm
Day 3 will end 1/23/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 25 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin: Captain Ford,
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Fraxert,
Post by: Captain Ford on January 22, 2013, 07:50:56 pm
Don't be jumpy there, I was explaining for you. You seem to be taking it from a skewed viewpoint...Get well soon btw.
I feel much better today. Sorry for all the profanity. My roommate is a bad influence on me.
I'm now horribly confused though. I don't think I was evading anything.
First of all, it looks like you quoted the wrong post here:
Firstly, you're evading.Because that was a response to IronyOwl, not you.QuoteBecause I'm legitimately surprised and happy to still be in the game. Seriously, all Thursday night I was , "sheesh, might as well send me the link to deadchat already. We all already know I'm going to die tonight."I asked you to explain it, then you rebound the question back to me...Hence me asking it. I want to see your reasoning.
Also, that's why I immediately said, "don't reveal yourself, doc." I was really worried the doctor would claim. It isn't necessary and it would really hurt our chances of winning.
The one where I responded to you was this:
-snip-that post that we keep coming back to-snip-Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?
Sure. The vote was tied up until I changed my vote to ReDeadEr at the last second (within 30 minutes of day end). If I were scum, that would have been a ludicrously bad move, especially when I could have let it go to a no-lynch.
That makes me an obvious target for the last remaining bandit. Any person who's confirmed town (or nearly so) is one less person who can attract suspicion away from them. The doctor was smart enough to see it the same way.
OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim.
I realize I can't prove I'm not the last bandit. From your point of view, it's possible that I bussed my scumbuddy. But that would mean I was willing to gamble that you people would actually behave the way I wanted you to.
And that's a stupid gamble. Seriously.
And I don't see where I "rebounded the question to you". I didn't direct any questions at you. So I am really, horribly confused. It really does feel like you haven't read anything I've said.
...at this point, I'm beginning to think you never saw that post. Because you only ever quoted my response to IronyOwl.
That might be the source of our confusion. I really have been answering your questions. That's why I hyperlinked them all in that WoT. I really think that every gripe I had in that WoT was legitimate. And I do resent the implication that I'm the one at fault here.
Quote
but it seems like you're attacking everyone who doesn't think you're smoothly town
That's an exaggeration. Because you're the only one who fits that criteria. And I only did it because you have been very hard to communicate with.
Quote
@Part 1: You didn't really explain it. I was asking why you'd insert the idea of a doc straight off.
...okay...I think I understand what you're asking me now. You're asking me why I didn't put any reasoning for my conclusions in my first post. Is that correct?
That's simple to answer: I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.
Is that what you were asking for?
Quote
You're skirting the edges of logic there, when I was asking you directly why you'd put the idea that scum would preferably NK you instead of anyone else. Because you put down the lynch vote? And your reason: tie break.
Oh. Because I was excited.
I see what you're saying. You're worried I posted that to lead the town to a false conclusion. (That's what I thought you were trying to say, actually).
Well, I figured the other players were going to come to the same conclusions I did on their own anyway. I didn't think it would come as a surprise to them. So why should I be half-assed about it? This is a reason to celebrate if there ever was one. If anything, being over the top about it shows that I'm not afraid of attracting attention.
I did think about the way I was going to be perceived before I wrote that. But in the end, I decided I didn't care. I was happy, and I didn't really think it would be at all harmful.
So there's my reasons. Is this what you were looking for?
Quote
OR the last remaining bandit decided not to use his nightkill and plans to claim doctor himself. But he'd be gambling that there wasn't an actual doctor who could counterclaim. - What? So either you're the bandit, or a really headstrong doctor. Since you just inserted a piece of conjunctive reasoning there.
Wait ... "a really headstrong doctor?" wtf?
...
...WTF?!?
That doesn't make any sense. And it most certainly isn't what I said. I can't claim doctor, because I can't protect myself.
Quote
You beat around the bush. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3963968#msg3963968) Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,
I ... I am so tired of this. I have tried so goddamn hard to answer your questions. And you won't even give me a clue about what you're looking for. You just accuse me of dodging and evading. You don't even acknowledge the effort I'm putting in. And I put in a lot.
Quote
You hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival?
Yeah. You voted him. That kills people, Tiruin (http://youtu.be/kZUPCB9533Y?t=33s).
Quote
You haven't explained much your way, in regard to my question on you > lines along I SURVIVED THE NIGHT KILL!
BULLSHIT.
I have written HUGE posts explaining everything I can think of. It's just not what you were looking for.
If you're not getting the answers you want, it's your fault for asking the wrong questions. I've done everything I can. Everything short of writing out a doctoral thesis explaining every aspect of my decisions to the molecular level.
Tiruin, I don't even know if you're reading my posts. You don't acknowledge them, so I don't know if you missed them, misunderstood them, or if they're not what you wanted. Since you didn't specify, I'm assuming you didn't see them or didn't understand them. I'm not beating around the bush, I'm struggling to figure out what you want me to do. I'm trying to answer your questions, but I'm shooting blind, trying to hit a target only you can see.
Accusing me of being evasive when I'm putting forth all this effort is dishonest and really infuriating. Since it's so pervasive, I'm beginning to think you're doing it on purpose, and you're not really interested in hearing what I have to say.
Everyone: I'm going crazy here. I would really like to hear others weigh in on this, because I'm at a total loss to figure out what Tiruin wants from me.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 22, 2013, 09:37:55 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 22, 2013, 09:53:16 pm
Extension accepted!
Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 68 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin: Captain Ford,
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Fraxert,
Post by: Tiruin on January 23, 2013, 12:09:09 am
The Old Parchment Reads:Err, no Fraxert response yet :/
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin: Captain Ford,
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Fraxert,
@Ford: I guess you're missing my main point. The one in the final quote there...
Quote from: This makes up the crux of my statements on you, FordUtter jubilance. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3961939#msg3961939) As if you're trying to either draw fire from a threat that does or doesn't exist and making a big thing about it when nothing new surfaced except for the lack of the NK!
You beat around the bush. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3963968#msg3963968) Not explaining much on the reasoning behind that statement,Spoiler: Like what I've been asking for (click to show/hide)
Some of your parts aim at twisting information which is blatantly obvious. @ Part 4: I made no mention of RDE, specifically in that sentence. I said My aims were not to discredit anyone which pertains to your claim of me discrediting you. Where is it, that I am discrediting you in relation to alignment?
Finally, for brevity of this post, 'You've been discrediting the result of the last lynch since the day began. I seriously can't believe you're asking me this. It's like we aren't playing the same game.'
Opinions without quotes along with an aloof threat. How can I obviously discredit what the mod posted in RED and ITALICS? I can't see what you're getting at at all. Besides, if I'm discrediting RDE's recent flip, don't you think others would've caught onto it right now? Know what I'm talking about, and its mostly not on what is in your five-part thesis against the holistic me.
The usage of headstrong may have been wrong wording, I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and are stating such in that one post so as to make a bold distraction. Either that, or scum. Because it just doesn't make sense that you're keeping on pointing to the NK, you being a target, and your survival -- explanation below.
Think of it like this. In the hypothetical situation that you are the doc and your target was protected, you'd exclaim such as nobody else is the doctor and nobody else would have a valid claim to deter you AND scum would probably think twice about targeting you that coming night. If your target wasn't protected, you'd have known there was no kill.
But I've noticed, you draw attention to that in most of your posts from then on.
Scum explanation (a bit gutsy, but it depends on the following explanations which help support it): You either had your kill protected, or you chose to refrain from shooting anyone. Now if there was a doc or not, he's not be sure if the protect went through or that his protect failed, verging more on the former IMO, because that's what I'd assume instead. The point is, it would be hard for everyone else to see the results until later in the game.
You also keep on stating that you're most likely to be town.
Why don't you answer that? :/
Quote
I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.How was it obvious then? I can see the [abbr] reactions there, but how sure are you that you're in the clear?
QuoteYou hold me responsible for my vote on scientist, but did I do anything in regards to his survival?
Yeah. You voted him. That kills people, Tiruin (http://youtu.be/kZUPCB9533Y?t=33s).
Then let's cut straight to the point.
Can you summarize your case against me? {I don't get the reference...except for that one top rated comment...}
However, I believe you're looking at this mess this way:
> You assume, from a town viewpoint that scum would target you specifically for a NK. Why > 'It was obvious' > Why. I'd like to see details on why it is obvious. Testimonies from other people won't work.
> Either scum NK'd or didn't > Claimant that there is a doctor > Why. Why this instead of going on the thinking that scum didn't NK - while impractical, it has happened in different Bay12 Mafia games before. Why not leave the idea alone? Perhaps it was due to the spur of the moment, but you cannot redact any thing you post. You can only edit it or clarify it via other posts.
> Check that quote above for more questions. Because your thesis proves lacking...
Let me explain. Sure, it looks to you (and I don't blame you for that as it is your viewpoint, which I respect) that you've answered my question. Saying a stated opinion like 'It's obvious' doesn't give much to reason about. I may have undergone the error of assuming you knew that, but this part is of my own fault it seems.
Why is it obvious, is what I'm targeting. I've been basing this case mostly on that one post you've made there and moving from that point, to answer your doubt that I'm ignoring what you're saying. {And I'd be up for worst IC of the century if that's so :/}
{Now on the first >, I'd like to introduce a small concept in Law. There are two reasons a suspect can use in his/her defense which are considered weak: the alibi "Where were you at..." and the person's defense. Both are taken by word and on their own, without conclusive evidence, they can easily be made up or extracted from the imagination.
Prima facie evidence from observation needs something to back it up if the case is to be resolved. This is where the questioning starts, with a basis and an idea.}
This is why you are scummy in my eyes, you seem to be subtly avoiding my main point of my case, emphasized in that one liner post. "Can you explain how you came up with this?"
Answers like 'I thought it was obvious. And given by the reactions of other people, it was.' isn't a good example of what to answer. Firstly, if someone is asking for the obvious, then at least give your own reasoning prior to thinking that the asker is being blunt. Second, using other people's testimonies in proving yourself as town (excuse me if I quote them below)
Quote from: Testimonies on their belief that Ford is town?
IronyOwlare not conclusive to ending up at being town for everyone involved. Leading to me questioning you.Burn_healWhat do you have to say for yourself, IronyOwl?That it's kind of shameful that we got lucky D2 and scum overplayed their hand D3. I didn't do anything, but I'm unimpressed with your pawns, Bookthras. Unless it's fraxert after all in which case I'm unimpressed with your lurking pawns, and if it's Ford after all then GOD DAMN IT.
But, more likely I'm unimpressed with your pawns. Nice cajones going after the lurking IC, but too theatrical and baseless with it.Sorry about the decrease is post count. Been busier. Here are my thoughts:Onyxjew
Captain Ford I think can be fairly safely noted as being innocent, lol.Captain Ford Nothing much on him, he openly called it luck when he got ReDeadEr. Shooting down a mafioso does help him be called innocent, and the fact that he has been pretty active as far as I can tell leaves me with little reason to chase him. Not completely off the list, as no one is until they're dead.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 23, 2013, 03:49:53 pm
Spoiler: Off Topic (click to show/hide)
First of all, Unvote. I believe I have finally figured out where you're coming from.
I never really had a case on you. I was confused about what you were doing, so I decided to push and see what happened. I'm now satisfied with what I've found.
Quote
I was saying that you may have been the Doctor, and are stating such in that one post so as to make a bold distraction.
Spoiler: Tangent: English Nitpicking (click to show/hide)
OH! I actually get that.
I never actually considered that possibility because I found it to be absurd. I've been so certain the NK would be aimed at me, I figured that if I were the doctor, I'd be dead right now.
Okay, I think I see where you're coming from now. When I start considering the possibility of me being the doctor, I have to start considering the possibility that someone else was the NK target. Even if I wasn't the doctor, that's still a possibility.
Well, here, maybe I can finally put this issue to rest then:
...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!Captain Ford: Can you explain how you came up with this?
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away. We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
Okay, line by line, now.
Quote
...I did not expect to survive the night. But man does it feel good to be wrong!
I didn't expect to survive the night. I expected to be night killed. It was a very disappointing thing to happen immediately after I lynched scum, which was really exciting!
When I didn't die that night, I was really surprised and excited.
Quote
We have a Doctor in the house! 8)
I believed we had a doctor in the house.
Now, I know this is a HUGE leap of logic for you, but...
IF, as the first sentence says, I expected to die last night, then it logically follows that I was saved by a doctor's protect.
Yes, there are other explanations. But it's the simplest one possible. It doesn't require anyone to take any risks or make any bad choices. It doesn't require the 20% chance of fraxert being scum, or the remote possibility of a bandit completely missing the 24 hour window to post their action, or for a bandit to take a gamble with a very low chance to pay off.
Now, if that isn't good enough, explain to me what is wrong with that reasoning.
Quote
I'm not going to pretend that nailing ReDeadEr was anything but luck. But it feels good anyway. Not so hopeless anymore, is it?
I had no idea ReDeadEr was scum. I thought he was the doctor. This is the truth.
In particular, I thought this might explain my behavior towards him. The reason why I pressed him so hard and then unvoted him without a good explanation. I really didn't know he was scum. I only voted him because of his low activity. This means I got lucky.
The second part, about it feeling good, is the truth. It feels great!
Day 2 was depressing, Nerjin even posted (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3952353#msg3952353) that he was worried about people getting discouraged. I felt the mood of the game had been uplifted. I was celebrating that.
It felt good, and I was reveling in it. Because it felt good. That is actually logical.
Quote
At this point, the doctor shouldn't claim. I just want to throw that out there right away.
This is so straightforward I can only call you an idiot for questioning it.
Quote
We're still going to need you, fella. But I'd like to give you a big thank you for saving my butt last night!
Again, this is me being excited. IronyOwl is correct that I am being friendly toward the doctor. I understand the point you and IronyOwl are making about it, and I understood it at the time.
That post was a bold move. I made it because I was confident about how things would turn out. I did it exactly because it limits my options in the future. I made a commitment that I wasn't going to back down from.
* * *
Now maybe you want to know my motives. You have never, ever asked about them, but I suspect that's what you've been trying to get at this whole time.
I did it because people were already going to suspect I was town. I addressed the questions that were on everyone's mind, and said, "Yes, I saw that too, and yes, I think it was a doctor protect too, and yes, this game just got a lot more interesting, and yes, I am excited about it, especially after how depressing day 2 was."
I see the point you're making, and it's bunk. I did this specifically because it might look scummy. I'm not afraid. If you lynch me, we still won't lose outright.
I did it to save us time and energy. I did it to maximize the potential benefit to the town. And I did it in the hopes that if I was lynched, it might draw out the actual scum.
* * *
Now Tiruin, if this somehow doesn't answer your question, give me an example of what you're looking for. That's all I'm asking for. It isn't that hard.
Post by: Nerjin on January 23, 2013, 05:33:19 pm
Bear in mind that a second extension won't go through if you don't make better use of the one you have.
Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 48 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Fraxert, Captain Ford
[/quote]
Post by: burn_heal on January 24, 2013, 01:28:28 am
Post by: lynx_ on January 24, 2013, 06:55:31 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 24, 2013, 07:05:00 am
I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.
Post by: Shakerag on January 24, 2013, 10:23:21 am
I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.ಠ_ಠ
Post by: Nerjin on January 24, 2013, 10:38:39 am
Lynx_ has replaced in for Fraxert!
Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 31 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Burn_heal: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl: Burn_heal
Not Voting: Lynx_, Captain Ford
Post by: Captain Ford on January 24, 2013, 05:00:49 pm
That would be good. Unless we're just gonna lynch burn_heal anyway.
I'm curious why you said burn_heal and not fraxert. They both needed replacements.
I'm afraid I'm still not ready to be useful, but it seems Ford and Tiruin are... more or less finished? I honestly can't follow those WoTs.
I really hope so. I got what I wanted from him, but I don't know if he's satisfied yet. It's been a really strange conversation.
_lynx: I (and I think everyone else) would like to see your reads on everyone as soon as you can manage.
Also, a head's up. I'm going to be completely unavailable from Friday through Sunday.
Post by: Nerjin on January 24, 2013, 09:08:01 pm
superBlast has replaced Burn_heal
Day 3 will end 1/25/2013 at 6PM at the latest. There are 21 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
superBlast: Irony Owl,
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Fraxert: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl: superBlast
Not Voting: Lynx_, Captain Ford
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 01:22:51 am
So until I get get caught up on things, I'm going to unvote. If I reading the Old Parchment correctly, I'm currently voting for Irony. Though I have no idea why I am, so that's why I'm unvoting.
Then again if I'm reading the votes correctly, it doesn't really matter lol.
Post by: Nerjin on January 25, 2013, 04:31:56 am
Post by: IronyOwl on January 25, 2013, 04:56:20 am
[Hey guys! How are you all doing? Well anyway to superBlast the reason you were voting Irony is because Burn_heal was. I'm pretty sure when you replace in you're just inherit the other person's vote. If I was wrong could an IC tell me? ANYWAY just a bit under 20 hours left so... hop to it.]Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doing
Ford:
I'm curious why you said burn_heal and not fraxert. They both needed replacements.I suspected burn_heal of being overconfident scum. fraxert I was less concerned was lurking scum.
Onyxjew:
IronyOwlI forget and don't particularly feel like going back to check, but something about my "leading the charge" on scientist, I think.I think I may have been a bit cryptic in response to you earlier, which I think was because I wanted someone else's answers before answering myself. Sorry about that if so.Which answers and who were you asking?
Speaking of which, you've been awfully quiet lately. Been busy, not sure what to do, happy with how everything's playing out, what is it?
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 05:30:01 am
[Hey guys! How are you all doing? Well anyway to superBlast the reason you were voting Irony is because Burn_heal was. I'm pretty sure when you replace in you're just inherit the other person's vote. If I was wrong could an IC tell me? ANYWAY just a bit under 20 hours left so... hop to it.]
I kinda figured the reason why I was voting Irony was because Burn was. I meant I didn't know why Burn was voting in the first place since I replace Burn, Burn is me in this game... so yeah...
Anyways, I read the whole thread and... holy crap... Mafia might not be a good game for me... I'm still gonna play of course, but because I suck at explaining the way I think will make it hard for me to explain my case against people that I suspect. Plus alot of it is how I feel. I hope I wrong about Mafia not being good a good game for me lol. Also I hate the fact I can't use the edit button... I'm prone to typos. Though I do understand the reason behind it.
Though one thing I know I'm going to hate is I might over think things. Every action I can think of does feels scummy to even myself. So if something feels scummy to me, then of course it'll feel scummy to someone else. but then again that's part of the game... if there was a way to out right prove your not a mafia guy, there would be no point to the game. Like I said I over think things.
======================================================================================================================
First off, I vote for Lynx, mainly because the person he replaced hasn't been active. Whether he is the scum or townie, I feel it's best to get the inactive person out of the way. If he is the bandit, awesome we win. If he's not, then we can focus on the one that is the bandit without the unhelpful guy attracting suspicion. If Lynx says something, and says something convincing me he not the bandit, then I'll unvote and figure out who I should set my sights on.
When the night ends and for whatever reason I'm not the unlucky guy to get night killed, I'll post up my list of most suspicious people. I would do it now, but if i'm correct, that'll place a huge target on my back that says, "Please kill me now!" Then again if I'm right it might not be a good idea to to kill me since that'll throw suspension on the guy at the top of my list, which if I'm right, it'll through suspicion on on the bandit. If I'm wrong then that would be the perfect time to to night kill me since that'll throw suspension on some townie I was wrongly suspicious of....... my head hurts (metaphorically)....
Ugh.... see how I over think things? Anyways best to keep my list of suspicious people to myself for now. Hopefully.
@ICs, about how many mistakes did I just make? I got the gut feeling I made at least one.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 05:40:56 am
Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doingYeah... I might want an extend so I can have more time to figure stuff out on my own. Though I want the day to just be done and over with to weed out more people. Though I'm kinda afraid my time playing the game will be short by either winning, or get my ass killed at night by the whim of the bandit.muchanything, but we've got two replacements and fairly scattered opinions.
I suspected burn_heal of being overconfident scum. fraxert I was less concerned was lurking scum.That means I'm said overconfident scum now, correct?
Post by: Nerjin on January 25, 2013, 07:43:50 am
Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doingYeah... I might want an extend so I can have more time to figure stuff out on my own. Though I want the day to just be done and over with to weed out more people. Though I'm kinda afraid my time playing the game will be short by either winning, or get my ass killed at night by the whim of the bandit.muchanything, but we've got two replacements and fairly scattered opinions.
If you want an Extend bold it next time.
Day Extended more info when I can. Also don't waste this extension or you won't get another today. I don't want this to turn into lurkfest 2013 like the last BM did.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 09:23:08 am
PFP:Generally speaking, yes. Also extend. I don't like extending without doingYeah... I might want an extend so I can have more time to figure stuff out on my own. Though I want the day to just be done and over with to weed out more people. Though I'm kinda afraid my time playing the game will be short by either winning, or get my ass killed at night by the whim of the bandit.muchanything, but we've got two replacements and fairly scattered opinions.
If you want an Extend bold it next time.
Day Extended more info when I can. Also don't waste this extension or you won't get another today. I don't want this to turn into lurkfest 2013 like the last BM did.
Er... I didn't... Thats why I didn't bold them...
Post by: Captain Ford on January 25, 2013, 10:08:52 am
When the night ends and for whatever reason I'm not the unlucky guy to get night killed, I'll post up my list of most suspicious people. I would do it now, but if i'm correct, that'll place a huge target on my back that says, "Please kill me now!"
Protip: Townies shouldn't fear death. One of us is going to die. If not you, then someone else. If it ends up being you tonight, then we'll never get to see your list of suspicions, which could have helped us win the game. If you are town, then your opinions are trustworthy.
Here's another way to look at it: Why save yourself if it's just going to mean that another one of us gets killed? Why are you more valuable than the rest of us? Do you see why saying that looks incredibly scummy?
It's not unusual for us to discuss who we think is scummy and for why. If you post what you're thinking, we can respond to it, pointing out things you may have missed, and improving your chances of finding scum.
So then, superBlast, I would like to see your list of suspicions please.
Since the extension seems to have been issued in error, I would like to Oppose Extension to put some more pressure on superBlast. Nerjin, if you decide not to reverse it, then disregard this oppose vote please.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 10:42:45 am
But now that I currently have two votes... I'm not in a good position. Before I even get in the position of "Give your list or die" with people putting votes on me, plus Ford's reason that it in itself is very scummy.
Then again Ford being the first one to want my that's nearing the end of the day is also scummy (With the current time (that is without extension) 7 and a half hours*) to me. Plus Tiruin hasn't seen fit to unvote you yet... so I'm assuming he's still suspicious of you. Having my list could be advantageous for you if you are scum for my reasons I was thinking about in my post. Here's a small preview of my list. You're not on the bottom of it.
If another person wants to know my list before the day ends then I'll tell it. Then for sure I'll know at least one townie wants my list.
*My math with time has always slightly confused me.... so I might be off by an hour or two.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 10:49:30 am
But now that I currently have two votes... I'm not in a good position. Before I even get in the position of "Give your list or die" with people putting votes on me, plus Ford's reason that it in itself is very scummy.
Ok this'll bother me and if can't edit I'll just make it clear with this post since I missed it when I previewed my post before posting. Though it probably has no impact on the game... like I said it's gonna bother me.
Quote
But now that I currently have two votes... I'm not in a good position. Before I even get in the position of "Give your list or die" with people putting votes on me, plus Ford's reason that it in itself is very scummy. So I guess I'll release my list before the day's end.
I just wanted to add in what I put in bold. Man I hate not editing.....
Post by: Nerjin on January 25, 2013, 12:05:05 pm
So Nerjin giveth, so Nerjin taketh away. Extension retracted. Day ends in 5 HOURS!!!
Post by: lynx_ on January 25, 2013, 01:42:32 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on January 25, 2013, 03:20:48 pm
Post by: lynx_ on January 25, 2013, 04:07:47 pm
I'll be back later but looks like the game won't still be going then.
Request extension
I don't know about the possibility of this, I'll have time tomorrow morning but I presume that's too far away from now.
From what I've seen in the last few pages (and the first couple before I ran out of time), I'll vote superBlast.
He refuses to help town out here, is flailing wildly at easy targets, and terrified of being lynched.
None of these strike me as particularly helpful, so I'm happy to make sure this lynch goes through.
I'll catch up during the night if there's no extension forthcoming.
Sorry I don't have more time!
Post by: Captain Ford on January 25, 2013, 04:59:09 pm
I was going to extend if he managed to deliver, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 25, 2013, 05:02:56 pm
Unfortunately, I need to leave now, I won't be available at the deadline. But at this point, superBlast can extend if himself if he manages to post in time.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 05:13:26 pm
Now there is 3 votes against me and no longer any chance for Lynx_ to get Lynched. No why the hell would the last bandit get himself killed but taking away his last chance of someone going after Mr. inactive. Instead I'm going let my self die and and prove that I'm not scum. And in my death, hopefully will allow you all to figure out who the scum is.
I'm not going through quotes since I have such little time left. By time this get's read I'm sure the day will end.
My list goes like this:
1. OnyxJew = Because for this whole day he's barely talked (Other then Frax). And by what I remember correctly he only talked when spoken to or about.
2. Frax a.k.a Lynx = Nothing against Lynx but his predecessor has been dreadfully inactive. Either because he just up and left, or he's scum and not sure what to do... though he did get replaced... but I'll still have my eye on him.
3. Ford = Because Tiruin's argument against him with the Doc stuff. Though Ford makes a good argument to me... but I'll admit it's very confusing.
4. Irony = Because I really have no idea what to think of you or Tiruin. Probrably due to your guys' exp at this game. But my predecessor seen fit to go after you for some reason, and also your more suspicious to me then Tiruin. I wish i couldn't poked you for questions in hopes of getting answers.
5. Tiruin = Because he's the least suspicious to me. Then again it hard to tell where he playing the game or being an IC (that is until he started using {} for his IC voice). If you are the scum in the end, you're pretty good at convincing people otherwise.
Now hopefully I can get a response in hopes to get me off the chopping block, with an hour left, I'm just going to do what I can to help the town before I'm not allowed to post any more.
Post by: superBlast on January 25, 2013, 05:17:07 pm
...wait, actually, Nerjin seems to be planning to end the day one hour later than usual.
Unfortunately, I need to leave now, I won't be available at the deadline. But at this point, superBlast can extend if himself if he manages to post in time.
I thought he said the day ends at 6 PM. It's only a little after 5 now.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 25, 2013, 06:27:43 pm
superBlast:
Anyways, I read the whole thread and... holy crap... Mafia might not be a good game for me... I'm still gonna play of course, but because I suck at explaining the way I think will make it hard for me to explain my case against people that I suspect. Plus alot of it is how I feel. I hope I wrong about Mafia not being good a good game for me lol. Also I hate the fact I can't use the edit button... I'm prone to typos. Though I do understand the reason behind it.Yeah, explaining yourself is pretty important; it's just something you'll have to get better at and maybe pay more attention to. I'm not sure what you mean by "Plus alot of it is how I feel," which is I guess a good starting example, but if you mean someone feels scummy, that's fine for picking targets or some level of suspicion. If you want to actually see someone hanged you'll need more than your gut, however.
Though one thing I know I'm going to hate is I might over think things. Every action I can think of does feels scummy to even myself. So if something feels scummy to me, then of course it'll feel scummy to someone else. but then again that's part of the game... if there was a way to out right prove your not a mafia guy, there would be no point to the game. Like I said I over think things.
As for overthinking/seeming scummy, just relax. Remember that:
1 - You're town and you know you're town, so you shouldn't look that scummy even if you're making mistakes or doing something odd
2 - Dying doesn't automatically lose you/your team the game. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world; doing what you think will catch you scum is more important than doing what you think will not get you killed.
Also, being overly paranoid about looking scummy like that looks scummy. It's not a major tell because you are new, but it does make me narrow my eyes a bit wondering.
First off, I vote for Lynx, mainly because the person he replaced hasn't been active. Whether he is the scum or townie, I feel it's best to get the inactive person out of the way. If he is the bandit, awesome we win. If he's not, then we can focus on the one that is the bandit without the unhelpful guy attracting suspicion. If Lynx says something, and says something convincing me he not the bandit, then I'll unvote and figure out who I should set my sights on.This is kind of lazy and not very productive. It's not scumhunting, it's just saying "Well... I have absolutely no idea who's scum, so I guess I'll just kill whoever's inactive and hopefully that'll be kind of the same thing." You don't even have any specific suspicions or questions for him, it's just "He's lurking therefore kill him, unless he comes back and really impresses me."
So, it'd be a lot better to be trying to kill people you actually suspect, and if you suspect him for lurking that's fine, though not what you'd hope for on D3. It'd be better still, though, if you hunted somebody you suspect. "If he comes back and really impresses me I might let him live" isn't the kind of statement that's going to get you good data- either he won't come back, or he'll come back and impress you and live, or he'll come back and not impress you and die. There isn't anything specific about why he voted so and so or what his stance on such and such is that you could ask him about to really get a better read on him, so he's either going to scumhunt really hard or have a brilliant excuse for his lurking, or not and so just die without you really learning anything except his roleflip.
Or, put briefly, don't lynch people because you're lazy. Lynch people because you've hunted them enough to be certain you want them dead, and keep hunting other people while you're doing that.
When the night ends and for whatever reason I'm not the unlucky guy to get night killed, I'll post up my list of most suspicious people. I would do it now, but if i'm correct, that'll place a huge target on my back that says, "Please kill me now!" Then again if I'm right it might not be a good idea to to kill me since that'll throw suspension on the guy at the top of my list, which if I'm right, it'll through suspicion on on the bandit. If I'm wrong then that would be the perfect time to to night kill me since that'll throw suspension on some townie I was wrongly suspicious of....... my head hurts (metaphorically)....As Ford mentioned, no.
Ugh.... see how I over think things? Anyways best to keep my list of suspicious people to myself for now. Hopefully.
More generally, Super Special Secret No Scum Allowed Plans tend to not really work very well. By which I mean they tend to make their user opaque and suspicious before amounting to absolutely nothing. There's circumstances where you can hold off on claiming or saying something until someone's answered your questions or otherwise put themselves on the record, but for the most part trying to not let scum know about anything is pointless, since the only way to do that is not to let town know about it either. That means you're working solo, which tends to be a lot less efficient than getting everything out in the open.
Also as Ford mentioned, being concerned about being NK'd like that is scummy and even more pointless, since if they NK you anyway you're taking your suspicions to the grave.
@ICs, about how many mistakes did I just make? I got the gut feeling I made at least one.Trying to lynch a lurker on a vague ultimatum, not scumhunting, withholding suspicions, being nervous about scumminess, being nervous about dying. Or at least, that's what I'd call and phrase as mistakes.
Yeah... I might want an extend so I can have more time to figure stuff out on my own. Though I want the day to just be done and over with to weed out more people. Though I'm kinda afraid my time playing the game will be short by either winning, or get my ass killed at night by the whim of the bandit.Wanting to just sort of kill people at random so there's less of them is what mafia wants, not town.
Why do you want people weeded out?
That means I'm said overconfident scum now, correct?Correct.
I guess my fear of getting killed is mostly not my own time playing the game to be short... that would just plain suck.Somewhat understandable, but that shouldn't be a massive deal. Certainly not enough to cripple your own scumhunting or switch to being in danger of being lynched instead of NK'd.
But now that I currently have two votes... I'm not in a good position. Before I even get in the position of "Give your list or die" with people putting votes on me, plus Ford's reason that it in itself is very scummy.You're kind of dodging the subject here. If you agree with Ford's premise that withholding your list is scummy, you should reveal your list because it'd be harmful to town to do otherwise. If you disagree with Ford's premise that withholding your list is scummy, you should discuss that with him, and frankly maybe even vote him over it if you disagree completely- after all, if that's the case he's basically bullying you to try to make you hurt the town.
Then again Ford being the first one to want my that's nearing the end of the day is also scummy (With the current time (that is without extension) 7 and a half hours*) to me. Plus Tiruin hasn't seen fit to unvote you yet... so I'm assuming he's still suspicious of you. Having my list could be advantageous for you if you are scum for my reasons I was thinking about in my post. Here's a small preview of my list. You're not on the bottom of it.
If another person wants to know my list before the day ends then I'll tell it. Then for sure I'll know at least one townie wants my list.
This is neither; it's basically ignoring the consequences of revealing your suspicions entirely and saying "Well, if I get voted enough I'll tell you my suspicions, but if I don't I won't." What exactly is that all about?
Man I hate not editing.....Heh, you get used to it, but yeah. Little typos and man I could have phrased that better everywhere.
Now there is 3 votes against me and no longer any chance for Lynx_ to get Lynched.There's always a chance for lynx_ to get lynched. Votes aren't set in stone, or at least they shouldn't be; they're based on the opinions and reasoning of the one who cast them, meaning they should be able to change if you're sufficiently convincing. There's no reason to give up just because one person has more than 50% of the current votes, and there's especially no reason to avoid letting the day run longer in the process.
Also as a bonus, not giving up tends to be far more productive than giving up even if it happens anyway.
No why the hell would the last bandit get himself killed but taking away his last chance of someone going after Mr. inactive.I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. I'm guessing there's at least one, maybe two typos helping with that.
Instead I'm going let my self die and and prove that I'm not scum. And in my death, hopefully will allow you all to figure out who the scum is.Okay. How?
I mean, I get the first part- you'll die, then you'll flip, and we'll say "Oh, guess superBlast (and by extension burn_heal) wasn't scum after all." Then what? How does that translate into "But if superBlast wasn't scum.... it must be that guy instead!" We don't have any brilliant insights from you that will prove vital if we can show they were made in earnest, we don't have any convoluted relationship webs that show the last scum must be one of you or the other guy, and we don't really even have any concrete suspicions that we can look at and consider valid now. I mean, let's look at your suspicion list, which you had to keep secret until now lest it fall into the wrong hands:
1. OnyxJew = Because for this whole day he's barely talked (Other then Frax). And by what I remember correctly he only talked when spoken to or about.1. Lurking
2. Frax a.k.a Lynx = Nothing against Lynx but his predecessor has been dreadfully inactive. Either because he just up and left, or he's scum and not sure what to do... though he did get replaced... but I'll still have my eye on him.
3. Ford = Because Tiruin's argument against him with the Doc stuff. Though Ford makes a good argument to me... but I'll admit it's very confusing.
4. Irony = Because I really have no idea what to think of you or Tiruin. Probrably due to your guys' exp at this game. But my predecessor seen fit to go after you for some reason, and also your more suspicious to me then Tiruin. I wish i couldn't poked you for questions in hopes of getting answers.
5. Tiruin = Because he's the least suspicious to me. Then again it hard to tell where he playing the game or being an IC (that is until he started using {} for his IC voice). If you are the scum in the end, you're pretty good at convincing people otherwise.
2. Lurking
3. What Tiruin said, though Ford makes good points, but it's also confusing. Huh?
4. No clue, predecessor said so a little?
5. Don't suspect him.
Top two suspects are lurkers, third suspect is parroting someone else (by which I mean referencing them; you're not even restating what it is about him that you find suspicious, exactly) but even then saying they make good arguments but you're confused, fourth is "Uncertain" and fifth is not suspicious for reasons you don't mention.
So, where in this are we going to get our golden insights that will help us lynch scum tomorrow? What about this is worth dying over to prove it's genuine?
Now hopefully I can get a response in hopes to get me off the chopping block, with an hour left, I'm just going to do what I can to help the town before I'm not allowed to post any more.This would make a lot more sense if you weren't opposing the extension to give anyone time to do that.
The latter part is good reasoning, but you want to use that time with actual scumhunting, not just a list of vague suspicions basically amounting to "they're lurking," and you certainly don't want to shorten your own time to do that for no reason. Admittedly by this particular point you probably don't have time to meaningfully hunt someone, but again, that'd be less the case if you weren't opposing an extension that would give you said time.
Apologies for the wall of text, there was a lot to cover.
Onyx, where you at?
Post by: Nerjin on January 25, 2013, 06:53:20 pm
Oddly enough it was Ford who spoke up “It’s… Not time yet. There’s at least an hour before sunset we could possibly wait?”
“Yeah,” replied Irony Owl “I’m sure if you just…” but he was cut off.
“Nah… Them’s the rules. Night has fallen and I have the most votes. It’s alright. We barely have enough people for this year’s cattle’in… I’d have to move on anyway. It’s quicker this way. Just… Remember me as the man I was.”
Slowly stringing himself up superBlast confessed “Asides… I never really liked any of you to start with.” With a final laugh he sealed the deal by leaping from the gallows. Though he appeared to have miscalculated. The rope tightened inhumanely fast and soon neither superBlast nor his severed head were hanging.
“Well… He had to have been the last bandit right? Everyone voted for him!” shouted one of the townsfolk with considerably less conviction than he would have two days ago “We… Need to check his house anyways.”
And check they did. Unfortunately it was simply a Regular Townsfolks house.
As they retired to their own homes most of the remainders wondered if this voting system would really root out the bandit. In the end it may not be perfect but it was their only hope.
superBlast was lynched! He was a Regular Townsfolk!!!
[@superBlast: I hope to see you in the next BM. Trust me when I say replacing in is hard to do well. I failed my first time but didn’t give up and have managed to improve by leaps and bounds. I hope to see you again next BM.]
Night 3 will end 1/28/2013 at 5PM.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Lynx_: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Superblast
Post by: Nerjin on January 27, 2013, 10:23:14 pm
“I reckon so…” yawned Lynx_ as he settled into a chair near the old general store. Deciding that it was unwise to leave him unsupervised every townsfolk decided it was best to hold today’s trials there.
Near noon however someone noticed Lynx_ was no longer breathing! Poisoned by the looks of it… this explained his sudden bout of over-extended naps all too well. A quick check of his person revealed he was merely a Regular Townsfolk!
The town of Jackelope’s population, already far below average, has become as lean as a thirsty cactus as their chances for survival grows dimmer with each passing hour. Their only hope is to root out the bastard responsible for this misfortune. Fleeing will no longer help as there is no chance they would leave witnesses alive.
Lynx_ was night killed! He was a Regular Townsfolk
Day 4 will end 1/31/2013 at 5PM. There are 91 hours left!
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin, IronyOwl,
Post by: superBlast on January 27, 2013, 11:08:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nerjin on January 27, 2013, 11:11:11 pm
Post by: Nerjin on January 28, 2013, 05:12:56 pm
Day 4 will end 1/31/2013 at 5PM. There are 72 hours left!
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin, IronyOwl,
Post by: Captain Ford on January 28, 2013, 06:02:44 pm
Onyxjew: Your scumhunting has been lackluster and lazy. You've only voted twice. The first one was an RVS vote (http://) that you never bothered to change. The second time you voted a lurker and got away with tossing out questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3969732#msg3969732) at the rest of us that you didn't even bother to follow up. Heck, I didn't even answer yours (I completely missed it), and you never called me out for it.
Can you offer up an explanation?
IronyOwl: You were very certain burn_heal was the last bandit. Bizarrely certain. But I'm voting you largely because I feel there was something odd about the way you were talking to burn_heal.
In particular, this one line is bothering me quite a lot:
The vote on you is a lynchvote. I may still change my mind, but more likely than not I'll see you dead at day's end.It bothers me because you made it sound like you're the one running the show. There's no sense that you need the help of the community to get a lynch, and it comes off as sounding like you're manipulating the town rather than working with them.
Tiruin: Did you protect me during Night 2? If not, who did you protect?
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 28, 2013, 06:21:10 pm
Ski trip. Kicked ass.
If you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention. Why don't I ask why no one answers? Because no one answers. Do I expect to get an answer from anyone as to why I'm not getting answers from anyone? No. No I don't.
I find that both hilarious and depressing.
I've got some reading to catch up on, I'll be back in an hour or so with a vote and an explanation. Plus at least one other question.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 28, 2013, 08:57:36 pm
I'll reread your posts tomorrow with that in mind, though. No more time tonight. And I need to hear back from the ICs.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 28, 2013, 09:16:14 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 29, 2013, 12:25:14 am
I just realized, we are at MYLO aren't we?And just in time for my post to arrive! :P
{Timezones got me before super posted}
{MYLO EVERYONE!
The time of the day where the consensus would lead to either a no-lynch, or lynch the right person -> scum for the benefit of the town. If it is a mislynch and there is no doctor to save a player, scum wins. If it is a mislynch and there is a doctor who protects successfully, town has a chance as the proceeding day turns into LYLO - lynch, or lose.
For the scum, remain vigilant. either aim for going after a 'mislynch' - meaning lynch on someone other than you, or head for a no lynch if you're playing it safe. No lynching here means nobody is up for the noose and the proceeding night's results would help clear the matters.
In a game with hammers [game mode], votes are given carefully - the day ends when enough votes land on a person. Fortunately, BMs have no hammers, but a preset timer. This is the time for astute decision making, emphasized by how close the winconditions are to the players.
Usually, it is at this time OR at LYLO that power roles like Cops or Doctors claim as whatever they've found is crucial to their faction's victory. The latter should only claim, in my opinion, when enough evidence has presented itself that he feels safe to claim. I cannot specify how, as many variables [such as doubt on whether scum NK'd, withheld their NK, or he got roleblocked] present itself.}
Ford:
Tiruin:Wait, what? Why the unvote when you had something to follow?
First of all, Unvote. I believe I have finally figured out where you're coming from.
Quote
I never really had a case on you. I was confused about what you were doing, so I decided to push and see what happened. I'm now satisfied with what I've found.Oh. So your vote was only to push for information? That is...really interesting. Had you any read from beforehand? At all?
Because this is what I gained:
> You believe that there is a doctor.
> Derived from other's statements, you see yourself as most likely to be town.
> You expected to be NK'd because of your last-moment lynch on a bandit.
Quote
IF, as the first sentence says, I expected to die last night, then it logically follows that I was saved by a doctor's protect.There is nothing wrong there. I see you being valiant in your defense, something which I approve of. You know how to construct a defense, even if I believe your case is fallible otherwise. But, what I saw wrong was that you kept on pushing something that can't be generally proven until either someone claims, or what happened the preceding night happens again. Meaning, the absence of a NK.
Yes, there are other explanations. But it's the simplest one possible. It doesn't require anyone to take any risks or make any bad choices. It doesn't require the 20% chance of fraxert being scum, or the remote possibility of a bandit completely missing the 24 hour window to post their action, or for a bandit to take a gamble with a very low chance to pay off.
Now, if that isn't good enough, explain to me what is wrong with that reasoning.
Scum could or couldn't have NK'd. That was near impossible to prove at that time. Where I'm seeing it, that wasn't the simplest explanation. That leaves questions like: Why would the doctor protect you and not anyone else? Because you seem to have bussed a scumbuddy? Or...because you seem to have seen him in trouble and then voted him off? Or maybe they didn't NK and...err...
See where the questioning goes?
{You did well on your explanation though, but let me point out that in Mafia - all viewpoints must be considered before you post something that isn't conclusive to everyone else.}
But then...
Tiruin: Did you protect me during Night 2? If not, who did you protect?Explain your reasoning on this one. This intrigues me.
Onyx
Good, day has returned. I'll just explain my lurking yesterday before I get into theatrics.@ Second statement: What questions :/
[...]
If you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention. Why don't I ask why no one answers? Because no one answers. Do I expect to get an answer from anyone as to why I'm not getting answers from anyone? No. No I don't.
I find that both hilarious and depressing.
You gave declarative arguments and not interrogative ones. Reading back, you did ask a question...to Fraxert. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3963226#msg3963226) I see no other questions in your other (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3965681#msg3965681) posts- (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3969048#msg3969048)
Oh wait, it seems I've missed some.
Quote
Tiruin Out of curiosity, where is the line between acceptably defensive and scummily defensive actually drawn? I've seen some queer situations built out of that maddeningly blurred line.That line is pretty hard to define. When someone speaks about scummy, it pertains to what they - in their opinion - see as an error in logic or a feeling upon reading the paragraphs in that post. It mostly depends on the wording of said post, as well as how it follows what they've said earlier in relation to the accusation against them.
Now back to the topic. You admit you're lurking, hmm? What about priority in posting here? If someone doesn't answer your queries, what do you do in that case? You wait on them, or you begin asking others questions instead? Which seems better?
{Players can miss some posts when they're engaged in reading other people, especially when they're on a case against the person. It is best to just remind them once again by either stating:
[Player Name]: why are you ignoring my questions.
Or something along those lines. People miss things, and it is up to you whether to be aggressive or diplomatic in reminding them. You can't just do...nothing while waiting for answers.}
Lastly, what did you mean by:
Quote
Good, day has returned.
Post by: IronyOwl on January 29, 2013, 04:17:32 am
Anyway, as it is now MYLO, or Mislynch and Lose, we should nolynch today. The reasoning for this is fairly simple: if we lynch a townie, there'll be two townies and one scum. Unless the doctor successfully defends again, and remember there's a 50/50 chance of targeting the doctor directly, D4 will dawn with 1 townie and 1 scum, meaning a scum victory.
On the other hand, if we nolynch, scum will knock off one more player, leaving us at LYLO- but since there'll be one fewer targets to choose from, our odds of successfully lynching scum should go up a bit. There are exceptions, of course, like when there's ironclad confirmed townies, in which case the scumkill is going to be fairly obvious unless they're going for WIFOM.
Naturally, this doesn't mean we shouldn't scumhunt; just that we should save the actual killing part for tomorrow.
Ford:
IronyOwl: You were very certain burn_heal was the last bandit. Bizarrely certain. But I'm voting you largely because I feel there was something odd about the way you were talking to burn_heal.Well, there's a few reasons for that.
In particular, this one line is bothering me quite a lot:The vote on you is a lynchvote. I may still change my mind, but more likely than not I'll see you dead at day's end.It bothers me because you made it sound like you're the one running the show. There's no sense that you need the help of the community to get a lynch, and it comes off as sounding like you're manipulating the town rather than working with them.
One, I did want him pressured. Just because I wanted him dead doesn't mean I didn't also want information out of him.
Two, I wanted him pressured. I didn't need or think it'd be particularly productive to claim support I wasn't sure was there, or ignore him while I went and tried to drum it up. I meant pretty much literally what I said- I, personally, was gunning for his blood.
Three, he seemed to be digging himself a rather nice hole. Other people apparently didn't see it quite as much, but it really looked like he was scumming it up enough to make lynching him entirely viable.
What's this about "bizarrely certain," though?
Onyx:
If you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.And why didn't you do anything about that? Including, at worst case, asking an IC what you were doing wrong?
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention. Why don't I ask why no one answers? Because no one answers. Do I expect to get an answer from anyone as to why I'm not getting answers from anyone? No. No I don't.
I find that both hilarious and depressing.
Also, you find it hilarious that everyone's ignoring you, eh? Best case scenario for someone in your line of work, perhaps?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 29, 2013, 04:31:11 pm
First: It is a fact that you are the only one who had difficulty understanding my logic. It implies that there is something different about your point of view.
Let me be clear: It's not that you didn't believe me. It's that you didn't understand me.
All the points you made were valid. But no matter how hard I tried, you couldn't understand why me, or anyone else had independently come to the same conclusions.
But when you started asking about scenarios involving the doctor, I realized I had missed possibilities that you were thinking about. I realized that if you were the doctor, you would have very good reason to be suspicious of me.
1. If you didn't protect me, of course you'd be suspicious of me. You'd know (objectively) that my argument was wrong.
2. Even if you did protect me, you'd worry about whether or not you'd just protected scum. Particularly after I mentioned that scum might have no-actioned to make a doctor claim later on.
You talked a lot about doctor logic, which is logically something that the doctor would be thinking a lot about.
In any case, you didn't answer the question. Are you or are you not the doctor, and why are you being evasive about it?
Onyxjew:
I've got some reading to catch up on, I'll be back in an hour or so with a vote and an explanation. Plus at least one other question.FTD. That's a fitting last nail for your coffin.
IronyOwl: "Bizarrely certain" was purely in reference to the fact that you saw certain things as being towntells on other players, and as scumtells on burn_heal. In particular, the making and retraction of errors, of which burn_heal made two, and onyxjew made one, and on the former you ignored, and on the latter you saw it as townish.
Unvote. I'm up for a no lynch if there's a true consensus. So far, you two ICs have only said that it's general wisdom, I'd like to hear your own opinions on the matter.
Also, everyone has posted, and no one has claimed doctor yet. At what point should we assume there isn't one?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 29, 2013, 04:34:01 pm
Post by: Tiruin on January 29, 2013, 06:56:27 pm
Tiruin: I'm going to try to keep this short.Let me clarify this with one statement. You are denouncing my point of view.
First: It is a fact that you are the only one who had difficulty understanding my logic. It implies that there is something different about your point of view.
Let me be clear: It's not that you didn't believe me. It's that you didn't understand me.
All the points you made were valid. But no matter how hard I tried, you couldn't understand why me, or anyone else had independently come to the same conclusions.
But when you started asking about scenarios involving the doctor, I realized I had missed possibilities that you were thinking about. I realized that if you were the doctor, you would have very good reason to be suspicious of me.
1. If you didn't protect me, of course you'd be suspicious of me. You'd know (objectively) that my argument was wrong.
2. Even if you did protect me, you'd worry about whether or not you'd just protected scum. Particularly after I mentioned that scum might have no-actioned to make a doctor claim later on.
You talked a lot about doctor logic, which is logically something that the doctor would be thinking a lot about.
In any case, you didn't answer the question. Are you or are you not the doctor, and why are you being evasive about it?
I am not the doctor, and it seems very obvious that the WIFOM you're spewing there is only a matter between you and me - nobody else can attest that I am the doctor or not.
I did not protect anyone, nor did I protect you. If you're so obstinate to hold on your goals, then you can hang on them.
Yea, it would be logical for the doctor to assume the head lead on the hunt of his claimant, but you're seeing it from a narrow point of view. Captain Ford
Also, everyone has posted, and no one has claimed doctor yet. At what point should we assume there isn't one?And you keep on pointing to this matter. At what point should you assume there is, or isn't one?
Why do you keep on pressing it? What is so evasive of me being who I am, hmm?
Post by: Nerjin on January 29, 2013, 08:49:41 pm
Day 4 will end 1/31/2013 at 5PM. There are 45 hours left!
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, IronyOwl,
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 29, 2013, 09:08:00 pm
Lastly, what did you mean by:I was glad to see I could post again. I had been away for the duration of the extension and I was asked on two occasions what I was doing/why was I lurking. I had to wait through the night for when I could explain myself.QuoteGood, day has returned.
Tiruin
There seems to be a lot of discussion on the remaining power role(s). Do you think there is a doctor at all?
IronyOwl
Why didn't I ask an IC what I was doing wrong? -snipped sarcasm- ...That's actually a good point. I don't really have a reason why, except for 'I didn't think of it.' I found it funny because I had/have no adequate reason for my apparent invisibility. I was questioned, and analyzed, yet never answered. The questions were lackluster, true, but I was surprised at the potential oversight or disrespect. I still don't know which.
Why were you personally, and very much explicitly, going for burn_heal? What set you off? Why the blood vendetta?
Captain Ford
Yep. FTD. A sad combination of laziness and work load. I have no adequate defense beyond that, and I won't be conjuring one of smoke, mirrors, and theatrics.
Damn, I can't find anything to pick at. The doctor theories have been said by you several times now, and I know how annoying that would get if I asked about it. And there's little else besides a hunt for the doctor... Interesting.
Captain Ford Why are you so interested in who the doctor is? How does this help us find scum?
Post by: Captain Ford on January 29, 2013, 09:10:32 pm
Seriously. Fuck you. I'm seriously fed up with your shit.
Quote from: Tiruin
If you're so obstinate to hold on your goals, then you can hang on them.What the fuck does this even mean? What goals?
Quote from: Tiruin
You are denouncing my point of view.
Quote from: Captain Ford
All the points you made were valid.Are you fucking kidding me?
Gods. I'm tired of this shit. You asked me about the reasoning behind one post. I told you the reasoning behind that post. You never asked me about my current opinions, or if they had changed. If you think I have a narrow point of view, it's because you were asking about a narrow topic.
I've had it with your bullshit. Seriously.
Request Replacement
PPE: Onyxjew.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 29, 2013, 09:12:55 pm
IC's, what does PPE mean?
Post by: Nerjin on January 29, 2013, 09:14:55 pm
Well... Farewell Ford. Hope to see you in future games.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 29, 2013, 10:22:28 pm
Seriously. I didn't deserve that.
Post by: Nerjin on January 29, 2013, 11:09:59 pm
Fuck you, Tiruin. You asked me to explain, and I explained. We were only ever talking about the past. I don't know where you get off calling me evasive and narrow-minded when you were the one narrowing the focus to one goddamn post and what I was thinking at the time.
Seriously. Fuck you. I'm seriously fed up with your shit.
===
Gods. I'm tired of this shit.
===
Maybe. I enjoy the game, but I didn't sign up to be misunderstood, spend all my time trying to clarify it, and finally be told I'm focusing too much on it by the person who wouldn't shut up about it.
Seriously. I didn't deserve that.
Guess who didn't deserve to be cursed at? It's a game. I understand annoyance but there is a limit to what is acceptable.
Post by: Jim Groovester on January 29, 2013, 11:23:06 pm
I would suggest that before you begin forming hard feelings directed towards the other players you wait until at least the game is over.
Post by: Tiruin on January 30, 2013, 12:00:52 am
I was discussing the points on the possibility of a power role, not discounting what you said. I did, in no way, try to mess up your case by trying to undermine your ideas there. Nor was I trying to...anger you at all. I did understand your case, but the premise behind it is questionable. Yes, the probability of there being a doctor who did protect you is there - this I do not contend with - but there is also the probability of scum not NK'ing and therefore confusing everyone else. The latter is what I'm basing my case on, including further questioning of yours.
Yes, I get that you assumed I'm the doctor, because logically if I didn't target you, I'd be hounding your case as you claimed that the doctor protected you - this being the foundation of your idea. If I did target you, then that would be scumhunting as you said. I put that vote in as pressure, to be frank, and to try to see your response on the matter.
What if I wasn't the doctor? That much was clear there. Then I can only be town or scum. How do you fix that matter? Pushing your point, or push it from another angle. If I can use Hapah's style, I'd have gone diplomatic and inquired on why your target was defensive, including an open ended question at the finish. Or, wondering why the shift of attitude or tone in the post - you could've noticed what I said that deviated from my player tone before, aye?
Or probably you think I'm coming at this case from an IC-status, looking over your posts again. No. The fact that I'm an IC here has nothing to do with my alignment or what else I'd be saying. In a real game, anything goes - tension may rise between people, but I've never aimed, or even thought of, angering anyone. You were at the top of that list...
I mean, dude...Really? :-\
{Perhaps I shouldn't have gone as an IC after all. Seeing all this, I guess my mistakes are all from linguistics. Sorry Ford...That was never in my intention.}
Post by: Captain Ford on January 30, 2013, 12:26:13 am
Guess who didn't deserve to be cursed at? It's a game. I understand annoyance but there is a limit to what is acceptable.
You're right. I'll apologize for that. I was beginning to feel like it was the only way I could make myself understood, but that doesn't excuse it. I'm sorry, Tiruin. You didn't deserve that.
But I really am that frustrated. I can't continue this game.
PPE: Tiruin.
Yeah, I think things got very out of hand. It's one thing when it's all in-game, but a lot of it was meta -- me trying to figure out what the language barrier was and trying to understand you, and not using special formatting on your IC speech really screwed things up. I still have no clue what was supposed to be IC speech. And there's so much material there, it would be too confusing to go through it all again.
At this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there. I know from past experience that you're a cool guy. I'm having a hard time believing what I'm reading.
I realize I took it a bit too personally. I don't know if you did it intentionally or not. But it got to a point where I really didn't want to think you were doing it on purpose. I mean, using the language barrier against me is really low. I'm struggling with it in good faith, even though it might make me look scummy. If you're really using that against me on purpose, it just feels abusive. It made me feel betrayed.
In any case, I did need to make it clear that my frustration was beginning to extend outside of the game. In a game of mafia, it can be really hard to express that clearly.
...thanks for acknowledging my frustration, Tiruin. That's all I really needed. I can finish out this game now -- that is, as long as I haven't horribly offended all of you. :-[
Post by: Captain Ford on January 30, 2013, 01:22:23 am
Captain Ford Why are you so interested in who the doctor is? How does this help us find scum?Huh? I must have given the wrong impression somewhere along the line.
I'm not all that concerned with who the doctor is. I was kind of pressuring Tiruin to see if he was hesitant to make a claim one way or the other.
Now, see, if scum had chosen to no-action on Night 2, they wouldn't know whether or not there was an actual doctor, so making a fakeclaim would be a risk. I was trying to see how he reacted to the idea, as much as I actually suspected him of being the doctor.
If a scum actually fakeclaimed doctor, and we had another doctor present, then they'd be trapped by their lie, and we'd know one of the two was scum. That would considerably improve our odds.
And if there isn't a doctor, or a bandit who wants to claim doctor ... then why was there no NK on night 2? Am I the only one who finds that possibility to be totally nuts? :(
Post by: Tiruin on January 30, 2013, 01:50:49 am
Quote
I still have no clue what was supposed to be IC speech. And there's so much material there, it would be too confusing to go through it all again.Thanks for that, but I'm sorry too...
I'm serious with the fact that my player talk also was aimed at helping - people do that, not just because I'm an IC too.
Quote
At this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
Quote
I mean, using the language barrier against me is really low.:/
Know that I never abuse the use of this secondary language in anything I do. [I mean, I had personal issues with it in my past, but thats another story >.>]
And now, unvote
There was one thing nagging my mind. If you were scum, why would you just go out and subtly role fish the doctor out? At this moment, too.
Now, that was a vague hunch..But then
Quote
Now, see, if scum had chosen to no-action on Night 2, they wouldn't know whether or not there was an actual doctor, so making a fakeclaim would be a risk. I was trying to see how he reacted to the idea, as much as I actually suspected him of being the doctor.
I'll await Onyx' reply first.
Post by: Captain Ford on January 30, 2013, 05:18:35 pm
Maybe you should also answer Onyxjew's question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3990182#msg3990182) while you're at it.
I mean wow. I see your point now, Onyx.
Spoiler: Off-Topic (click to show/hide)
Regarding this:
I'd like to withdraw that. I've thought about it more, and it really doesn't matter if there's a doctor or not. I thought figuring out that detail could help me figure out what's going on. But unless we had two doctor claims, it wouldn't help us any.Also, everyone has posted, and no one has claimed doctor yet. At what point should we assume there isn't one?And you keep on pointing to this matter. At what point should you assume there is, or isn't one?
Why do you keep on pressing it? What is so evasive of me being who I am, hmm?
O_oQuoteAt this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
...?
Tiruin?
Onyxjew:
First of all, I think I applied FTD wrong. FTD is only meaningful when there's a consistent failure to deliver. Such as promising to post a huge WoT for several days without posting it and without giving a good reason. I've seen it nail scum numerous times. But it's rather uncommon to actually catch someone doing it. And you did deliver, so it doesn't apply.
I felt guilty about that. Misapplying scumtells isn't something I like to perpetuate.
Um, again, noobish question.Nerjin was right that it means "pre-post edit". It's also used as shorthand to indicate that the post was written without having read one or more preceding posts.
IC's, what does PPE mean?
In this case it meant that I wrote my post before reading yours. It was worth noting because you voted me in it. Knowing that I wrote my post before you made your vote is important, because otherwise one might get the impression that your vote influenced my reaction.
Post by: Tiruin on January 30, 2013, 05:31:09 pm
{That was me guessing that you've got something there, judging by the 'seeing things that aren't even there'. By that, I guess you should point that out in a speculative or hypothetical manner, or just point that out with a 'what I think about this is-' or something.}O_oQuoteAt this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
...?
Tiruin?
So...that something is scummy, right?
Quote from: That question I missed
There seems to be a lot of discussion on the remaining power role(s). Do you think there is a doctor at all?
I am ambivalent regarding the presence of a doctor. I am not the doctor.
Just because there was no kill doesn't specifically mean there is a doc in the game. Disregarding any explanation on that and the non-NK, I'm guessing the doctor would either be claiming now - MYLO, and if this goes into a no lynch, he has a chance of getting the NK anyway - but also would give crucial information regarding his finds, why he protected the people mentioned, and his reads on them.
So...yeah, I am mostly neutral (leaning on no-doc) whether there is a doc here, but if there is one it would surprise me as I can't discern who he is now.
Reminds me of this one doctor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110494.msg3463125#msg3463125) in the past BM. Couldn't pin-point link it because I'm rushing this post because of work. But it's all there, discussion on doc-ish ness after the game, including a full powerrole set up.
{That is a reference by the way, which gives an idea of how the doctor plays - it isn't conclusive evidence to my statement, but would act as a third-party[?] explanation.}
Post by: Captain Ford on January 30, 2013, 06:04:40 pm
I didn't expect you to be online right now. :o
PFP...I don't know. You're the one who said I was onto something. What exactly is it that I'm onto?{That was me guessing that you've got something there, judging by the 'seeing things that aren't even there'. By that, I guess you should point that out in a speculative or hypothetical manner, or just point that out with a 'what I think about this is-' or something.}O_oQuoteAt this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
...?
Tiruin?
So...that something is scummy, right?
Since you've denied being the doctor, there's only one other thing I could be onto.
Post by: Nerjin on January 30, 2013, 07:48:02 pm
Day 4 will end 1/31/2013 at 5PM. There are 22 hours left!
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Onyxjew944,
Tiruin: Captain Ford,
Ironyowl:
Not Voting: IronyOwl, Tiruin
Post by: Onyxjew944 on January 30, 2013, 07:55:28 pm
I'll have some time in about sixteen hours.
Post by: Tiruin on January 31, 2013, 05:12:55 am
Tiruin: I stared at your post for about 40 seconds before I realized it was new.I was online at the break of dawn, had to finish a literary piece along with digital art. The latter was due to my hobby. XD
I didn't expect you to be online right now. :oPFP...I don't know. You're the one who said I was onto something. What exactly is it that I'm onto?{That was me guessing that you've got something there, judging by the 'seeing things that aren't even there'. By that, I guess you should point that out in a speculative or hypothetical manner, or just point that out with a 'what I think about this is-' or something.}O_oQuoteAt this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
...?
Tiruin?
So...that something is scummy, right?
Since you've denied being the doctor, there's only one other thing I could be onto.
Now for that question...Err, I said you were onto something because of your statement:
Quote
At this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.
Quote
I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.
Quote
reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.So there's my guess that you had something in regard to that vote on me...Because you're seeing things that aren't directly stated, meaning an implied or derived idea from my posts...
So I was guessing you're onto something, but unsure about it, thus me pointing it out because...well, you're seeing things.
Quote
Since you've denied being the doctor, there's only one other thing I could be onto.Which is...?
Currently, I'm confused about your stance on me.
Really sorry about this, but I am overloaded with RL crap. I'll try to get everything done tonight so I can come back and go over it tomorrow, but for now Unvote. Sorry about returning to lurking, but I will have much more time in two days.Where 'some' = 5 minutes. Where 'more' = 6 minutes. :P
I'll have some time in about sixteen hours.
Disregarding my attempt at joking to invoke a response, Why did you unvote?
Post by: IronyOwl on January 31, 2013, 05:31:26 am
Ford:
IronyOwl: "Bizarrely certain" was purely in reference to the fact that you saw certain things as being towntells on other players, and as scumtells on burn_heal. In particular, the making and retraction of errors, of which burn_heal made two, and onyxjew made one, and on the former you ignored, and on the latter you saw it as townish.This looks interesting. Why didn't you ask about it directly?
Unvote. I'm up for a no lynch if there's a true consensus. So far, you two ICs have only said that it's general wisdom, I'd like to hear your own opinions on the matter.I'd say it's wise. We obviously have some people who are less suspicious than others, but nobody seems like such an obvious target that we couldn't benefit from one fewer suspects.
Also, everyone has posted, and no one has claimed doctor yet. At what point should we assume there isn't one?Hard to say. We're not at full LYLO yet, so there's still a reason not to, namely not being our guaranteed kill for no benefit. Presumably if we don't get a claim at LYLO or when we decide we're going to lynch, either there's no doctor or the doctor doesn't see any benefits to claiming. Or is maybe trying something tricky, like trying to lure scum into claiming doctor and then challenging them.
Onyx:
IronyOwlAnd what do you say to Tiruin's assertion that you never really asked any questions?
Why didn't I ask an IC what I was doing wrong? -snipped sarcasm- ...That's actually a good point. I don't really have a reason why, except for 'I didn't think of it.' I found it funny because I had/have no adequate reason for my apparent invisibility. I was questioned, and analyzed, yet never answered. The questions were lackluster, true, but I was surprised at the potential oversight or disrespect. I still don't know which.
Why were you personally, and very much explicitly, going for burn_heal? What set you off? Why the blood vendetta?The theatrics were the main part. The fact that he didn't actually have anything was a large component also, but the villainizing language was what made it seem like he was pursuing a malicious agenda, not just convinced of something for no or bad reasons.
Post by: Tiruin on January 31, 2013, 10:17:41 am
No Lynch at the moment to prevent any last minute shenanigans.
To clarify things: @Ford
I was withholding my stance on you [see: unvote] while waiting for your response. Now...your response was very surprising, but it turned my attention to the difference in your attitude.
Quote from: Because suddenly you got this here
You're voting someone. At MYLO. On...an IC voice statement.PFP...I don't know. You're the one who said I was onto something. What exactly is it that I'm onto?{That was me guessing that you've got something there, judging by the 'seeing things that aren't even there'. By that, I guess you should point that out in a speculative or hypothetical manner, or just point that out with a 'what I think about this is-' or something.}O_oQuoteAt this point, I'm having a hard time reading your posts without seeing things that aren't even there.{Then maybe you're onto something?}
...?
Tiruin?
So...that something is scummy, right?
That, to me, goes against my knowledge of how you work things out - your analytical senses. Either you're trying to press me for that one statement, or...trying something else that needs more time to be explained. I don't get what you're aiming at here though.
Adding to this:
Meaning: You're aiming at the presence of a doctor in a vague and indistinct way, as if you're unsure how to make a case on it. Either desperatism, or loss of words- I'm leaning on the side of you being town with recent events here.
There was one thing nagging my mind. If you were scum, why would you just go out and subtly role fish the doctor out? At this moment, too.
Now, that was a vague hunch..But thenQuoteNow, see, if scum had chosen to no-action on Night 2, they wouldn't know whether or not there was an actual doctor, so making a fakeclaim would be a risk. I was trying to see how he reacted to the idea, as much as I actually suspected him of being the doctor.
I'll await Onyx' reply first.
Onyx: I'm betting you're going to post soon right? :/
Post by: Captain Ford on January 31, 2013, 04:35:20 pm
IronyOwl: I don't know why I didn't ask you that directly. Probably because I was distracted by other things (Tiruin). In any case, can you explain it? (It'll probably have to wait until tomorrow, but I'd like you to answer even if I'm not alive at daybreak)
Onyxjew: I guess you got overwhelmed again? Not a good sign no matter how you look at it.
Not much time before day end, so I'll have to make this post short.
Post by: Nerjin on January 31, 2013, 04:54:13 pm
No-lynch was lynched! He was a Non-player character
Night 4 will end 2/1/2013 at 5PM. PM your actions if you have any by this time.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not voting:
Post by: Nerjin on February 01, 2013, 04:55:08 pm
Day 5 will end 2/6/2013 at 5PM. There are 120 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
Not voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin, IronyOwl,
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 01, 2013, 09:26:38 pm
Tiruin:
I went with the general consensus. Most seemed as though they wanted a no-lynch, and I agreed with the "One less town would make guessing easier" concept. A bit morbid, but cold calculus has its place.Really sorry about this, but I am overloaded with RL crap. I'll try to get everything done tonight so I can come back and go over it tomorrow, but for now Unvote. Sorry about returning to lurking, but I will have much more time in two days.Where 'some' = 5 minutes. Where 'more' = 6 minutes. :P
I'll have some time in about sixteen hours.
Disregarding my attempt at joking to invoke a response, Why did you unvote?
IronyOwl
A: I don't really remember that assertion. When was that, again?IronyOwlAnd what do you say to Tiruin's assertion that you never really asked any questions?
Why didn't I ask an IC what I was doing wrong? -snipped sarcasm- ...That's actually a good point. I don't really have a reason why, except for 'I didn't think of it.' I found it funny because I had/have no adequate reason for my apparent invisibility. I was questioned, and analyzed, yet never answered. The questions were lackluster, true, but I was surprised at the potential oversight or disrespect. I still don't know which.Why were you personally, and very much explicitly, going for burn_heal? What set you off? Why the blood vendetta?The theatrics were the main part. The fact that he didn't actually have anything was a large component also, but the villainizing language was what made it seem like he was pursuing a malicious agenda, not just convinced of something for no or bad reasons.
B: I can accept that.
Post by: Tiruin on February 02, 2013, 08:35:14 am
Wow... a no-lynch followed by a lack of night-kill. Or a doctor, still not sure about that one. I can't tell if we just got lucky, or if this is a bad thing.Huh, subtle analysis of what happened in the night or...
Explain Onyx.
Also, I believe it is seemingly better for the doctor to claim now, other than yesterday.
{Woo, day 5! I've never even remembered a time a BM reached day 5 in my memory of BMs!
Same words to scum @ D4 start. Don't get demoralized if you've been NK-Blocked, or if not, listen to Bookthras//analyze what has gone in the past 4 days.
@Town: Don't get uppity, if there is or is not a doctor, it is still to be revealed on his/her discretion, or endgame role flip. Continue with the activity and pull this one through for your team.}
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 02, 2013, 01:48:36 pm
I think what you are asking about is the last sentence, the one pondering whether or not that was a good outcome, so I will explain that. If you were asking about a different bit, i.e. the doctor, then please ask again with specifics.Wow... a no-lynch followed by a lack of night-kill. Or a doctor, still not sure about that one. I can't tell if we just got lucky, or if this is a bad thing.Huh, subtle analysis of what happened in the night or...
Explain Onyx.
I first thought it was a preferable situation, as no one died, but then I realized we decided not to lynch just so someone would get NK'd.
In effect, yesterday is now a pointless venture; no one died, and therefore the odds have not improved as some speculated they would in the event of a night kill. Plus, no claim. We don't even know if it was a block or a particularly convoluted plan of the remaining bandit.
Summary: Nothing good, or bad, happened. So I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 02, 2013, 05:28:22 pm
That train of thought implies that there isn't a doctor, after all, and never was. With the cop dead, the last bandit actually improved his chances of winning from 53.33% to 62.5% by not killing on Night 2. That's probably also the reason there was no kill last night.
We're currently in a stalemate situation where it's in neither party's best interests to be the first one to kill. BMs don't have a built-in mechanism for breaking this kind of stalemate. It's entirely up to the GM to decide how to handle it if it continues. Although, from a metagame standpoint, a draw is in the town's favor (our chance of winning is only 25% right now), so one could argue that it's in our best interests to continue to no-lynch until the bandit decides to help us or the GM puts an end to it.
As a sidenote, even if a doctor claimed right now, there would be no good reason to believe him. At this point, I am leaning with Tiruin about there not being a doctor in the first place.
Reference: Mafiascum - Numbers 1 (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Numbers,_Part_1) (Mafiascum games start with a night phase, so you need to mentally subtract 1 from the number of players column)
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 02, 2013, 05:33:01 pm
That train of thought implies that there isn't a doctor, after all, and never was.
We don't even know if it was a block or a particularly convoluted plan of the remaining bandit.And by block I meant doctor, I had a slight mishap with the terminology.
Also:
At this point, I am leaning with Tiruin about there not being a doctor in the first place.So...
Post by: Captain Ford on February 02, 2013, 06:46:08 pm
I was pointing out that it was very simple and straightforward. Even if a newbie (you) was the last bandit, Bookthras would have advised you to do it once the cop was dead.
In any case. Nolynch. Shorten.
Post by: Nerjin on February 02, 2013, 07:25:35 pm
@Ford: If this game gets to day 10 I will Mod kill all of you... Or I would like to. I can't as this is a Beginner Mafia and as such is for learning. Harsh penalties do not help anyone learn.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 02, 2013, 07:28:45 pm
Harsh penalties do not help anyone learn.Depends entirely on what you're trying to teach. :P
Post by: Tiruin on February 02, 2013, 09:37:10 pm
{Statistics}{Err. No.
{Stalemate}
{Chances}
{GM handling}
This is not a preferable idea to approach the situation at hand. Stating such things as statistics hold loose ground in processing the outcome of events here.
In this type of game, we rely on logical thinking and what had occurred over the past days. What was said before by players act as leads to the finish- meaning, search through what was said in the past days and derive who is scum//town from those reads.
The 'GM' or Moderator has no hold on the game's events. He just moderates time and actions. That's it. No third-party help from him.
That's the whole purpose of activity.}
Quote
As a sidenote, even if a doctor claimed right now, there would be no good reason to believe him.Oho? Now how does this factor into believing him? We can judge by what was mentioned in the past days. Supposedly, he'd also give in why he chose the target and what posts gave him the inkling that the target was town. We've seen two non-NKs, which either means the bandit isn't NK'ing, is roleblocking people (unlikely), or NK'd but had others protected.
However, scum would obviously try their best to follow the game, and to achieve their wincon as quick as possible. The only thing that I can think would prevent them from doing that is RL business, which doesn't speak much for any of us present.
In any case. Nolynch. Shorten.Y?
Based on your reads, what have you gained from everyone that you aren't sure of your stand?
...It is a preferable situation. Here, the no lynch at least gives the chance of scum off'ing one person of town. This helps both teams as it has one less person in the fray to confuse things//be confused with regarding alignment. Which would proceed to LYLO - 2 town, 1 scum.I think what you are asking about is the last sentence, the one pondering whether or not that was a good outcome, so I will explain that. If you were asking about a different bit, i.e. the doctor, then please ask again with specifics.Wow... a no-lynch followed by a lack of night-kill. Or a doctor, still not sure about that one. I can't tell if we just got lucky, or if this is a bad thing.Huh, subtle analysis of what happened in the night or...
Explain Onyx.
I first thought it was a preferable situation, as no one died, but then I realized we decided not to lynch just so someone would get NK'd.
In effect, yesterday is now a pointless venture; no one died, and therefore the odds have not improved as some speculated they would in the event of a night kill. Plus, no claim. We don't even know if it was a block or a particularly convoluted plan of the remaining bandit.
Summary: Nothing good, or bad, happened. So I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
It was preferable because at least we had explanations and arguments given and taken by different people. There, we have information.
I'm still curious whether both of you have reads on who is the bandit or not, though. It doesn't look like it, as our discussion is going onto possibilities and chance.
Shorten, No Lynch then.
Post by: Nerjin on February 03, 2013, 04:44:54 pm
"TORNADO!" Someone shouted as the funnel cloud reached the ground. The frightened townsfolk scrambled to the nearest safe-haven, all thoughts of Jimmy Pete's murder and bandits forgotten, as they rushed to the nearest homes or buildings in hopes of remaining safe until the winds died down. Unfortunately for them the winds did not die until near dawn... and by that time it was too late to safe one of them.
Night 5 will end 2/4/2013 at 5PM.. Please PM your actions if you have any.
The Old Parchment Read:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Ironyowl:
No Lynch: Captain Ford, Tiruin
Not voting: Onyxjew944, IronyOwl,
Post by: Nerjin on February 04, 2013, 05:07:44 pm
Irony Owl was night killed! He was a Regular Townsfolk
Day 6 will end 2/7/2013 at 5PM. There are 72 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin,
Post by: Captain Ford on February 04, 2013, 09:17:57 pm
Tiruin: You didn't understand any of what I said, or why I said it. Using your IC voice to refute and demean me was uncalled for, and I resent it.
Why is it a bad thing when I try to be informative? Why are you the only one allowed to be helpful or give advice?
The 'GM' or Moderator has no hold on the game's events. He just moderates time and actions. That's it. No third-party help from him.If you read the article I referenced and the accompanying pages, there is a discussion about stalemates, and about the actions GMs have taken to resolve them. Stalemates can't be resolved by the players alone -- that's the f***ing definition of a stalemate. I was summarizing ~6 pages of content into one post.
Urk...you misread me. I didn't say there was any reason to disbelieve him either. Only that there's no reason to believe there's a doctor at all.QuoteAs a sidenote, even if a doctor claimed right now, there would be no good reason to believe him.Oho? Now how does this factor into believing him? We can judge by what was mentioned in the past days. Supposedly, he'd also give in why he chose the target and what posts gave him the inkling that the target was town. We've seen two non-NKs, which either means the bandit isn't NK'ing, is roleblocking people (unlikely), or NK'd but had others protected.
Why do you think it means I'm uncertain? I was confident enough in my "stand" to call for a shorten.In any case. Nolynch. Shorten.Y?
Based on your reads, what have you gained from everyone that you aren't sure of your stand?
And on top of that, you did the same thing. Why did you do it?
This helps both teams as it has one less person in the fray to confuse things//be confused with regarding alignment.How on earth does that help the bandits?
So wait ... you advocate more talking, and then you go ahead and shorten anyway?I first thought it was a preferable situation, as no one died, but then I realized we decided not to lynch just so someone would get NK'd.It was preferable because at least we had explanations and arguments given and taken by different people. There, we have information.
However, scum would obviously try their best to follow the game, and to achieve their wincon as quick as possible. The only thing that I can think would prevent them from doing that is RL business, which doesn't speak much for any of us present.I see...so you don't think it's feasible that scum would not kill as part of a strategy to improve their chances of winning?
My Reads:
Onyxjew:
- Little voting. Not much pressuring.
- Is legitimately having trouble getting people to answer his questions. While Onyxjew is new to Mafia, I've found other places on bay12 where his posts have been missed. It really seems to be a chronic problem for him.
- Makes noncommittal statements.
- General newbishness.
- Some uncertainty. Reluctant to insist on his point of view, or to insist that others answer his questions. Definitely doesn't want to be seen as too aggressive.
- Definitely concerned about how he's being seen by others.
Tiruin:
- Was on ReDeadEr's lynch.
- Misusing his IC voice to gain a leg up on me. (I doubt it's intentional, but it is frustrating)
- Hypocritical to an extreme. Keeps questioning my motives for actions while he does exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons. He also does it in his IC voice, and somehow that means it's okay for him to do it, but not for me. (We both cautioned the doctor not to claim on Day 3, but you questioned me on it. When I pointed out that you did it too, you ignored that completely and continued to berate me about it. The implication is that because you said it in your IC voice, it was somehow different)
- Many, many bizarre statements and misunderstandings.
- Most of my read is gut feeling that I have a hard time putting into words.
I'd like to see what you two have.
Post by: IronyOwl on February 05, 2013, 01:51:50 am
Naturally, this means now is the time to examine everything. Lurking or making lazy assumptions at LYLO tends to lose you the game. Remember, one third of the vote knows exactly what's going on and wishes you ill. You literally can't afford any mistakes.
Also, if you were wondering I'm now dead as a player but not as an IC. This means I won't be giving any player input ("Such and such is reading scum to me"), but I will be giving IC input ("That's a this fallacy and it's bad because those").
Good luck.
Post by: Tiruin on February 05, 2013, 04:44:04 am
Tiruin:This comes off to me as paranoid. Jumpy, and paranoid.
- Was on ReDeadEr's lynch.
- Misusing his IC voice to gain a leg up on me. (I doubt it's intentional, but it is frustrating)
- Hypocritical to an extreme. Keeps questioning my motives for actions while he does exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons. He also does it in his IC voice, and somehow that means it's okay for him to do it, but not for me. (We both cautioned the doctor not to claim on Day 3, but you questioned me on it. When I pointed out that you did it too, you ignored that completely and continued to berate me about it. The implication is that because you said it in your IC voice, it was somehow different)
- Many, many bizarre statements and misunderstandings.
- Most of my read is gut feeling that I have a hard time putting into words.
I'd like to see what you two have.
So in your read, what is there to gain from it but an opinion on my current playstyle? Leaning...what, town or scum? Looks more like leaning confused at this time.
I also see you're biased against me being an IC. Fine.
I give up using my voice with you. Do you see the difference? I used my voice AS A GENERAL STATEMENT. It was the PLAYER VOICE that I questioned you. (Not shouting, emphasizing)
I see I've failed too.Spoiler: Off-Topic (click to show/hide)
Quote
Ack...if I'd known it would only take 2 votes to shorten, I wouldn't have done that!So...why did you shorten in the first place if you didn't mean it?
About LYLO: Irony said it perfectly. More later because stress and heavy emotional duress IRL.
Post by: Tiruin on February 05, 2013, 05:02:32 am
Yeah, no need to swear about it.The 'GM' or Moderator has no hold on the game's events. He just moderates time and actions. That's it. No third-party help from him.If you read the article I referenced and the accompanying pages, there is a discussion about stalemates, and about the actions GMs have taken to resolve them. Stalemates can't be resolved by the players alone -- that's the f***ing definition of a stalemate. I was summarizing ~6 pages of content into one post.
Quoted from that link:
Quote
The numbers probably do not reflect what the actual outcome would be if real games were played, as they don't account for the Mafia giving themselves away through bad logic.Like it was mentioned before, statistics are not one to base your case or scumhunting theory on. Here, they are a nice-to-know variable.
If you mean stalemate = ties all around, its up to the players here to fix it. Especially here in a BM where the objective is to learn which holds a greater priority over winning (but I guess its the connotations that also have weight here)
{Scum have their own IC. Never in the history of BMs on Bay12 have they abandoned their players to fend off for themselves to...hopefully come up with the conclusion you're talking about. Also, its a waste of time in waiting.
Nobody likes getting nowhere.}
Ok, now let me explain what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to put questions that lean towards a somewhat different train of thought - still connected to the main idea - in order to get another answer from the one being addressed. That was not misreading, but me not putting the thought of 'I didn't say there was any reason to disbelieve him either.' in my statement there.Urk...you misread me. I didn't say there was any reason to disbelieve him either. Only that there's no reason to believe there's a doctor at all.QuoteAs a sidenote, even if a doctor claimed right now, there would be no good reason to believe him.Oho? Now how does this factor into believing him? We can judge by what was mentioned in the past days. Supposedly, he'd also give in why he chose the target and what posts gave him the inkling that the target was town. We've seen two non-NKs, which either means the bandit isn't NK'ing, is roleblocking people (unlikely), or NK'd but had others protected.
Spoiler: Other things to mention (click to show/hide)
I noticed you noted that I was on ReDeadEr's lynch. Anything to say about it?
Post by: Nerjin on February 05, 2013, 05:39:57 pm
Day 6 will end 2/7/2013 at 5PM. There are 48 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin,
Post by: Captain Ford on February 05, 2013, 05:50:51 pm
Spoiler: IC Voice (click to show/hide)
So...why did you shorten in the first place if you didn't mean it?You're putting words in my mouth. It should have taken 3 votes to shorten according to the rules. Nerjin ended the day with only 2.
If even one townie had placed a vote on another townie before you nolynched, the last bandit could have voted with them, shortened and won the game instantly.
{Scum have their own IC. Never in the history of BMs on Bay12 have they abandoned their players to fend off for themselves to...hopefully come up with the conclusion you're talking about. Also, its a waste of time in waiting.I have no idea how you got that idea from my post. I never said anything even remotely resembling that. In fact, I said exactly the opposite:
Nobody likes getting nowhere.}
I'm asking from a whole new start. I'm curious on whether you are uncertain or not.Then why did you quote me if you're asking something totally unrelated to the quote?
* * *
About the stalemate: My point, I suppose, is that it's a game of chicken. The bandit may have been hoping we were more impatient than he was, and that we would lynch under circumstances that were disadvantageous to us. I decided to push back and say, "no, I'm not playing that game."
Long, drawn-out games aren't fun. You're probably right about the scumhunting, but I don't think town necessarily has the advantage. At some point, the players will get tired and lazy and just want it to end. That's how my last BM went.
I'm also considering that the no-kill may have been the last bandit probing to see if anybody would believe a doctor claim at this late hour.
I noticed you noted that I was on ReDeadEr's lynch. Anything to say about it?It's a point in your favor. At the end of the day, no matter how much WIFOM one might pile onto it, lynching scum can only be pro-town.
It wasn't a bandwagon vote. It wasn't bussing. It looks, for all intents and purposes, like every other vote you were laying down at the time. ReDeadEr got lynched on it only because of the timing.
More later because stress and heavy emotional duress IRL.I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things get better soon.
Still haven't heard from Onyxjew today. I hope he shows up soon.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 05, 2013, 09:36:15 pm
Onyxjew:
- Little voting. Not much pressuring.
- Is legitimately having trouble getting people to answer his questions. While Onyxjew is new to Mafia, I've found other places on bay12 where his posts have been missed. It really seems to be a chronic problem for him.
- Makes noncommittal statements.
- General newbishness.
- Some uncertainty. Reluctant to insist on his point of view, or to insist that others answer his questions. Definitely doesn't want to be seen as too aggressive.
- Definitely concerned about how he's being seen by others.
I'd like to see what you two have.
What have I? Nothing. My general uselessness stems from problem B on that list. I seem to be a natural forum ninja. I'm probably going to have to work on that in future games, whether that means culturing, curbing, or controlling remains to be seen. I think problem B stems from ninety percent of the other issues you listed, being passive tends to make it easy to be lost in the crowd. Even if it's a crowd of two.
Philosophical rambling! Alright, I don't have much time, so I figure this is as good a tactic as any. RNG, what have ye'? One.
Ford.
Quote
It wasn't a bandwagon vote. It wasn't bussing. It looks, for all intents and purposes, like every other vote you were laying down at the time. ReDeadEr got lynched on it only because of the timing.Why isn't is bussing? It is unlikely, sure, but what actually stops it from being so?
Tiruin
Quote
This comes off to me as paranoid. Jumpy, and paranoid.I saw a good bit of biased information, but that is the point. Paranoia is also basically the point. Why mention this? Relevance?
Damn, I suck at this. Aaanyway, terrible decision though it may be, I'm probably going to return tomorrow with another RNG related move. I'm going to have to cut this short. Sleep calls.
Current Reads:
Captain Ford:
-Active
-Emotional
Town/Mafia: No clue.
Tiruin:
-Active despite apparent complications, mild envy here.
-Confusing at times, though not quite indecipherable
Town/Mafia: Uncertain.
All my previous reasoning on the two of you was based off the ReDeadEr lynch. Both of you were on it, so from my viewpoint, it was a bus. Come to think of it, I'm going to double-check that. I think that's going to decide it for my vote. I can't tell anything from these arguments, probably a crippling lack of ability on my part, but that bit of information might be useful. Vote ahoy.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 06, 2013, 04:06:39 pm
Ford.Reading the wiki page ... it looks like it would be bussing by the literal definition.QuoteIt wasn't a bandwagon vote. It wasn't bussing. It looks, for all intents and purposes, like every other vote you were laying down at the time. ReDeadEr got lynched on it only because of the timing.Why isn't is bussing? It is unlikely, sure, but what actually stops it from being so?
But my point is that Tiruin wasn't putting any special pressure on ReDeadEr. Just before that vote, he was voting you for pretty much the same reasons. (Which is not a point in your favor, actually)
Post by: Nerjin on February 06, 2013, 05:44:46 pm
Day 6 will end 2/7/2013 at 5PM. There are 24 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford:
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944, Captain Ford, Tiruin,
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 06, 2013, 08:47:42 pm
I am basing this entirely off a few key facts.
- From my points of view, one of you is a bandit.
- Both of you voted ReDeadEr.
- ReDeadEr died because of your votes.
- ReDeadEr was the other bandit.
Therefore, it was a bus. I cannot stress that enough. That is the basis of my entire argument. The rest of my argument lies in me reviewing the posts pertaining to that lynch, and the lynch votes themselves. I was conflicted.
Spoiler: Captain Ford (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Tiruin, you voted first, extended, and gave valid reasons for your vote.
Ford, you voted seconds before the deadline, but seemed to do so arbitrarily. When you had no reason to do so, and could have just let ReDeadEr live.
Both seemingly good alibis. But I saw more to be had.
Captain Ford I think can be fairly safely noted as being innocent, lol.
Captain Ford Nothing much on him, he openly called it luck when he got ReDeadEr. Shooting down a mafioso does help him be called innocent, and the fact that he has been pretty active as far as I can tell leaves me with little reason to chase him. Not completely off the list, as no one is until they're dead.
And I think I remember superblast checking Ford off as well, but I wasn't able to find it. Disregard that statement if you are only willing to hear concrete evidence and crackpot theories based on concrete evidence.
Now, this could be a bit more in depth, but I notice there is little from either of you beside arguments between the two of you and small bits of questioning with others, but no where near the volume or quality of the hounding you two share. Which isn't very useful, I need a better profile. I don't get a better profile.
Tiruin Notes:
- Voted ReDeadEr first, when it wasn't likely that he would be lynched.
- Gave reasonable evidence for convincing more people to lynch him.
- Was given surprisingly little credit for the lynch, if any was deserved at all.
You are the most obvious choice, a basic choice. A good choice. You have shown little use, oddly. A lot of IC comments, many walls of text, active posting, but little actual use. You have been incoherent and contradictory in a few cases, you have gotten into three fights with the same person.
Captain Ford Notes:
- Voted ReDeadEr at the last moment.
- Gave no evidence, acted on compulsion, and an unnecessary compulsion.
- Was given inordinate amounts of credit, used it as an effective immunity shield.
You have been at the forefront of many lynches, you have been emotional on many occasions, you have been actively scumhunting for untold eras─certainly more than I have─, yet you have turned up nothing of use. Only a mountain of dead Town for your work. The only Bandit you killed was upon a self-proclaimed accident, and that was the only lynch you made without good reason.
So there was an ulterior motive. Or so I believe, you have made almost zero overt moves without a very good reason. 'I hate no lynching.' Not good enough for me. Not now. This was a bus, yes, I am certain of that. Tiruin has the more basic and easy to understand possible motive, as he voted in a time where it was far from certain that it would end in ReDeadEr swinging from the gallows, but Ford profited richly from it. Tiruin never brought it up again. Tiruin could have easily used it as a leverage tool, as you did. But he didn't. He hardly addressed it again, which could be shame at his mistake, but I don't think so.
Now to put an end to my final, and probably first, productive-ish rant as well as my first game of Mafia...
Captain Ford.
Good luck guys, you have my sympathy. It was fun. I might be on tomorrow, so don't give up if you think I'm batshit insane about this. I just might be able to rectify it if you can give me more proof than I just shoved down your throat.
Strike the Earth!,
-Onyx
Post by: Captain Ford on February 06, 2013, 11:09:21 pm
Tiruin has to be the last bandit. Because it's not you.
Now to make my final case:
Onyx, Tiruin hasn't taken a stand. Ever. He never came out with strong accusations. He's been playing it safe and passive the whole game, asking what other people think but never giving his own opinions.
To address what seems to be your primary reason for voting me: "I hate no lynching" -- It is very well established that no lynching is bad for town. It's in the freaking OP, for god's sake. There's an entire spoiler dedicated to it. It's not my opinion, it's one of the cornerstone pieces of advice that BMs are founded on. It was a DAMN GOOD reason to break the tie.
On top of that, I voted ReDeadEr for a very good reason -- He was contributing the least, and he admitted to having free time but choosing not to post. I had already made a case against him, and only unvoted because I suspected he was the doctor. With so little time left, I had to make a choice. And among the available choices, ReDeadEr was the best choice.
"Was given inordinate amounts of credit, used it as an effective immunity shield."
I wanted to play it up to demonstrate I wasn't afraid of scrutiny. I wouldn't have minded being lynched that day, if it helped unearth scum. (It was, if nothing else, an opportunity to experiment)
I make no apologies for it.
But if you're drawing any of that from the conversation with Tiruin, please do take into account that I was trying to answer his questions, and the emphasis I placed on my lynching ReDeadEr was all part of trying to explain it to him. Please take a close look at the questions he asked in response to me, and my reactions at his apparent failures to communicate.
I know you don't have time to take a close look. But at least consider this: I was being totally, brutally honest. I didn't hold anything back, even if I thought it might make me look scummy.
I was totally honest with him, with every question he asked, and every time he accused me of being evasive. What does that say to you?
Concerning my Emotions
There is something about the way Tiruin and I communicate that is really incompatible. Please do realize that I only ever got emotional in response to him, and not in regards to anyone else.
I can even explain in detail what it is:
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
Tiruin has made no contributions and taken no stances. He's only picked away at other people and let others lead the charge against them. He phrased all his votes to avoid starting fights or drawing attention to himself.
Post by: Tiruin on February 07, 2013, 11:50:51 am
Extend ; oppose shorten - {Remember that there are still requests for extensions//shortens, especially at a crucial time like this, it shouldn't be put to waste unless you're sure of your target}
For formatting, I'll split this using the horizontal ruler. Because busy-ness has gotten the better of me, and may still get the better of me. [Oh, and midterms, gotta put that in.]
@Onyx:
So firstly I-
Quote
This is my last post. It was a great game, guys. I seemed to radiate mistakes, and that saved my hide. Apparently. I'm not one to question excessive luck. I won't be here for any length of time after this, so whoever I vote dies or I do. That sounds like an ultimatum, but that's because it is. I was told that when I had convince myself of my decision, that it was time to lay out my case and convince the others. This is the first time I have had to do this. I would rather talk it over, but I sadly don't have time for reasoned debate. Best of luck, and I can only hope I'm making the right decision.:/
{Extremely busy, huh...Well, that's...quite disappointing. Hope you'll have enough time because in this moment, you aren't able to defend yourself from any questions given against you}
Small nitpick: You say you're busy, but don't place a request for extension? IMO, From a neutral observer's glance, stating
Quote
This is my last post. It was a great game, guys.(before reading the rest) already raises suspicion.
But let me be direct.
Quote
From my points of view, one of you is a bandit.Ok...
Quote
Both of you voted ReDeadEr.Go on...
ReDeadEr died because of your votes.
Quote
ReDeadEr was the other bandit.Indeed he was.
Quote
Therefore, it was a bus.... =/
{Alright, so here is my own interpretation of a bus. Driving a person under a bus is using your lynch-vote to kill your buddy (or in some cases in a game with vigilantes, NK your buddy, but that's advanced) to either distance yourself from him, or make you more town-ish based on your case in relation to him.
Now, both factors are based truly on what the players have presented along with the lynch. Since we're going on that tangent, there is one thing that you could arrive at, and be wrong or right.
For example:
> Bandit laid the RVS-ish vote. Townie laid the killing vote. = Not that much of a bus. Vice versa goes into a bus, but its all into the person's case against him.
...Nothing else to note as I'm rambling again.}
Quote
Now to put an end to my [...] first game of Mafia...:'(
Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)
@Ford:
Quote
It's a point in your favor. At the end of the day, no matter how much WIFOM one might pile onto it, lynching scum can only be pro-town.But you can only know who scum are after the lynch.
Quote
I was totally honest with him, with every question he asked, and every time he accused me of being evasive.Settling in for the general "every time", hmm?
Quote
Please do realize that I only ever got emotional in response to him, and not in regards to anyone else.But yes, I get it. I irritate you by just existing in the same game with you and its detrimental to your condition.
>
Tiruin is really bad at [An acknowledgement of the reply.]. I never know if he's even reading what I wrote, or just pulling things out of thin air.
Or perhaps I'm just looking at it from a different perspective than you and not following what you're seeing.
Quote
Tiruin has made no contributions and taken no stances.Check the before days. If by "no (x)" you mean what I did the whole game?
Quote
He's only picked away at other people and let others lead the charge against them. He phrased all his votes to avoid starting fights or drawing attention to himself.So what did I do to you, then? You define what we did as a fight, and in general my scum-meter of you has been wavering in the past. Preceding D5, I saw sincere confusion in your post.
Because you unvoted me beforehand and then came back with this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3991905#msg3991905)
Besides, from there (and I missed it) you said something about my denial on being the doctor, and then vaguely inserting that there is only one other thing you're onto. First thing I guessed was scum, and it follows.
Quote from: At that time
QuoteSince you've denied being the doctor, there's only one other thing I could be onto.Which is...?
Currently, I'm confused about your stance on me.
Now, you somehow believed me handsdown when I said it, without poking at it - or poking in any way I saw it as.
Truth is, I lied about being the Doctor.
Because I am the Doctor.
Let me begin by the list and further explanation.
Day 1 - Protected Captain Ford - Due to this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3944175#msg3944175) post. "This needs explaining" tipping my suspicions onto town side.
Day 2 - Protected Captain Ford - Yes. Again. Look below for more - spoilered.
Day 3 - Captain Ford
Day 4 - Onyxjew944
Day 5 - Onyxjew944
So yeah.
Spoiler: On Day 2/3 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D4//D5 (click to show/hide)
> Ford has passion. Strong, determined passion. Even under fear of being fallible, he pursues his belief and follows his reads regardless of contradiction and doubt.
Though, his votes have been known to jump to those he wants questions from and his degree of doubt seems to be variable.
> Onyx has been making mistakes - could be termed newbie-tagged, but I call them sincere. While this may be a mafioso calling it out on being new, he admitted to lurking, and went along with the ideas and made his own points from it in a way that scum would...err, unnaturally follow. It's like when you read his posts and then muse over them, then wonder why scum would do that.
His relations with Ford have also been real, not buddying in his explanations.
Aaaand I guess this explain why I haven't taking a hard stand on things. Unsure on night results. However, judging these, my vote goes to Ford. While I do see that enthusiasm at being saved @ D3, it was...despite what you said about it, too vague for me to decide on.
Quote
let others lead the charge against themI'm still poking this. This doesn't generally happen unless the person in question continued making mistakes that others would pick up.
If I've missed anything up, feel free to speak. Though you don't need to quote it, I'm seeing less posts with the deadline looming unless someone else extends.
Next, a disclaimer. Any and all 'helpful' posts done without the {} are in my player voice (not that it matters but I felt to justify it here). Players can, and do help each other out, anything otherwise that was perceived meant by me is...my total error in English wording.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 07, 2013, 01:58:43 pm
...I had wondered if you had lied about not being the doctor. I'm still surprised by your claim.
First of all, I have to say that I've spent a lot of time mulling it over since my last post. At the time, I was really taken in by Onyxjew's big finish. When I came online today, I wasn't certain anymore.
...and you were right, Tiruin. I do believe your claim. I'm a lot less confused now.
Now, to answer your questions (hopefully).
It was a very small point.QuoteIt's a point in your favor. At the end of the day, no matter how much WIFOM one might pile onto it, lynching scum can only be pro-town.But you can only know who scum are after the lynch.
Oh my god...you would not believe the number of times I rewrote that part. Just thinking about that argument makes me angry. It's still too soon for me to be able to talk about it objectively.QuoteI was totally honest with him, with every question he asked, and every time he accused me of being evasive.Settling in for the general "every time", hmm?
So to be clear, that was hyperbole. It's how I felt, not a factual account of what happened.
I'm glad that you understand that.
You didn't really take any strong stances. Compare yourself to Irony, who went on a strong campaign against burn_heal.QuoteTiruin has made no contributions and taken no stances.Check the before days. If by "no (x)" you mean what I did the whole game?
Except for me, you really didn't get into many fights or put on much pressure.
...oh duh. I guess being the one involved in it kind of made it a blind spot for me.
So I take the part back about avoiding fights. And ... jeeze, in hindsight, I can see plenty of times you laid down your opinion, too. You have a very subtle way of doing that, though.
...I need to leave for an appointment, so I have to cut this post off now.
Extend. I'm going to be busy tonight and this will take a few more posts to resolve.
Post by: Nerjin on February 07, 2013, 02:21:49 pm
Extension Accepted
Day 6 will end 2/11/2013 at 5PM. There are 96 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944:
Captain Ford: Onyxjew944, Tiruin
Tiruin:
Not voting:Captain Ford,
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 07, 2013, 07:59:13 pm
I'll look through the new developments, and older posts, over the course of the weekend. For now, Unvote. Should be a fun weekend.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 08, 2013, 06:07:44 pm
Besides, from there (and I missed it) you said something about my denial on being the doctor, and then vaguely inserting that there is only one other thing you're onto. First thing I guessed was scum, and it follows.I didn't, actually. But if you really were the doctor, and you chose not to reveal yourself when I accused you, then you had a good reason for it. Either way, there was nothing to be gained by pressing you on it.Quote from: At that timeQuoteSince you've denied being the doctor, there's only one other thing I could be onto.Which is...?
Currently, I'm confused about your stance on me.
Now, you somehow believed me handsdown when I said it, without poking at it - or poking in any way I saw it as.
Spoiler: Reasoning on Protect Choices (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D4//D5 (click to show/hide)
Your reasoning on your protect choices is solid. The reasoning behind investigating me is solid, too. I would have done the same.
Quote from: Tiruin
Alright, any and all topics aside of what we've discussed, here are somethings why its one over the other in my vote.I never thought he was buddying me.
> Ford has passion. Strong, determined passion. Even under fear of being fallible, he pursues his belief and follows his reads regardless of contradiction and doubt.
Though, his votes have been known to jump to those he wants questions from and his degree of doubt seems to be variable.
> Onyx has been making mistakes - could be termed newbie-tagged, but I call them sincere. While this may be a mafioso calling it out on being new, he admitted to lurking, and went along with the ideas and made his own points from it in a way that scum would...err, unnaturally follow. It's like when you read his posts and then muse over them, then wonder why scum would do that.
His relations with Ford have also been real, not buddying in his explanations.
Quote from: Tiruin
Aaaand I guess this explain why I haven't taking a hard stand on things. Unsure on night results. However, judging these, my vote goes to Ford. While I do see that enthusiasm at being saved @ D3, it was...despite what you said about it, too vague for me to decide on.Hmm...
So despite the fact I was right...you're voting me for it? Of course you were, because there's no way I could have been certain. Well, I wasn't.
The reason I was so certain is simple: Occam's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor): "It states that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected."
The successful doctor protect was the simplest solution by far. All other hypotheses required numerous assumptions, and required players to make poor choices or to take risks that could backfire. Like you said, it is not in scum's interests to prolong the game.
So we were thinking the same thing the whole time. The fact that you were questioning me on it made me doubt myself, which is why you noticed so much confusion. But now that I know my intuition was correct, that doubt and confusion is gone.
Ugh...I was so certain I was right. And I was! Shame on you for doubting me, Tiruin. :P
I only ever suspected you because I was confused. With the confusion cleared up, Onyxjew is definitely the last bandit. I'm certain of it.
Now I only need to convince you, Tiruin.
I have one piece of evidence I find to be very powerful:
QuoteI know that you said 'it looks to you like', and that was not yelling (except in the mindset of reading words, technically), but me posting down in easily readable letters of my intention.Writing in capitalized letters is the internet way of yelling. It's not a Simple Machine forum thing, it is a widely accepted rule of the internet.
Because THIS IS YELLING AT YOU.
This is getting a bloody point across.
This wasn't buddying. But when he posted it, there were questions that he had asked that we had missed. He decided to post this rather than reminding us about his questions.
He later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his questions. Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?
It's obvious that he was perfectly happy with the fact that we missed his questions. That's as scummy as it gets.
Let me know where we stand, Tiruin.
Spoiler: Disclaimer: If you wonder if I'm being friendly to you... (click to show/hide)
I also feel like I'm going to get kicked for flip-flopping like that. But I had a good reason. I was confused before and now I'm not.
"I'm ready to end this and avenge ol' Jimmy Pete. Are you with me, Tiruin?"
PS: If you are scum, then you played a very, very good game.
Post by: Nerjin on February 08, 2013, 08:30:28 pm
"I'm not convinced he's telling the truth!" Shouted Onyx glancing cautiously at Ford "I don't remember much of a sawbones around here."
"Y'all never needed me!" Tiruin seemed shock as he watched Onyx move his gun from himself towards Ford. Tiruin took this chance to draw his own gun and placed it dead center on Ford "I... I don't know!" He muttered.
Each of the final townsfolk had reached an impasse. Guns switched targets every moment or so... They had only one chance to get the bandit. The wind kicked up a small amount of dust as the ever-present sun gazed upon their confusing dance.
Extension Accepted
Day 6 will end 2/11/2013 at 5PM. There are 72 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944: Captain Ford,
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944,
Post by: Captain Ford on February 09, 2013, 10:58:36 am
And here I am in the morning wondering if Tiruin wasn't playing into my preconceptions all along.
Ugh...I need to take a close look at what Tiruin said that made me think he was a doctor in the first place and see if he could have faked that. Unvote.
I feel like such a jerkass. >_<
Post by: Captain Ford on February 09, 2013, 12:34:49 pm
Why did you say on day 5 that a doctor claim would be more valuable then as opposed to day 4? Why didn't you claim at that time if you thought it would be valuable?
Spoiler: Quote (click to show/hide)
Also, concerning your protect choice day 4. Wouldn't that imply that I was the last bandit, and I tried to kill Onyx? From a scum perspective, I could see myself killing off the only other non-IC in order to get the two ICs to rip into each other. What makes me curious is that you didn't see this possibility, or at least didn't mention it. Why not?
Onyx: Concerning your reasoning for voting me, do you not see ties as a bad thing? I already addressed this point above, but I wanted to ask why you think that breaking a tie was a bad reason for me to vote?
Conerning the ReDeadEr lynch, I remembered something important: I started ripping into ReDeadEr on day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3941709#msg3941709). I was not at all kind to him, and I had been pushing him for a good while before the lynch. If I was bussing him, then I started on day 1. I only unvoted him to break the tie, then I went right back to him on day 2. I unvoted him because I pitied him, thought he might be the doctor, and wanted to put some pressure on burn_heal. But when it came down to the wire, I thought ReDeadEr was scummier, or at the very least he was less valuable to the town.
You failed to bring this up. Why? My decision to off him wasn't nearly as spurious as you made it out to be. I've mentioned this before, and you have access to the LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?sort=post&url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.0), so you shouldn't have missed it.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 09, 2013, 04:28:46 pm
True. And might I add Tiruin wasn't talking about that post in which I buddied up to you, it was this one.
Now I only need to convince you, Tiruin.
I have one piece of evidence I find to be very powerful:QuoteI know that you said 'it looks to you like', and that was not yelling (except in the mindset of reading words, technically), but me posting down in easily readable letters of my intention.Writing in capitalized letters is the internet way of yelling. It's not a Simple Machine forum thing, it is a widely accepted rule of the internet.
Because THIS IS YELLING AT YOU.
This is getting a bloody point across.
This wasn't buddying. But when he posted it, there were questions that he had asked that we had missed. He decided to post this rather than reminding us about his questions.
He later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his questions. Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?
It's obvious that he was perfectly happy with the fact that we missed his questions. That's as scummy as it gets.
Spoiler: Most Blatant Buddy/Bromance Speech Possible (click to show/hide)
As to why I never questioned people on whether or not they answered my questions, we have been over this. It is a combination of
A: "If they aren't answering my questions, why would they answer my questions about why they aren't answering?". Or, in other words, if you see someone with their back to you and when you call out to them and shake them but they show no signs of acknowledging your presence. Do you continue shouting and physically berating them or do you move on and consider them deaf, mute, or otherwise engaged?
B: I didn't think to ask. As evidenced by my forgetting we can extend, I'm not a very organized person by any stretch of the imagination.
Quote from: Captain Ford
He later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his questions. Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?
Alright, now this one is just funny to me. There is so much wrong with this, I will make a dedicated portion of this post ridiculing it.
Quote from: Captain Ford
He later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his question.Allow me some quotes, friend, as this is chronologically and definitively wrong.
Reply #214 on: January 28, 2013, 06:02:44 pm
Alright, it's time to push some buttons and see what happens.
Onyxjew: Your scumhunting has been lackluster and lazy. You've only voted twice. The first one was an RVS vote (http://) that you never bothered to change. The second time you voted a lurker and got away with tossing out questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3969732#msg3969732) at the rest of us that you didn't even bother to follow up. Heck, I didn't even answer yours (I completely missed it), and you never called me out for it.
Can you offer up an explanation?
Reply #215 on: January 28, 2013, 06:21:10 pm
If you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention. Why don't I ask why no one answers? Because no one answers. Do I expect to get an answer from anyone as to why I'm not getting answers from anyone? No. No I don't.
I find that both hilarious and depressing.
Now, with those dates in mind, I did not bring it up. You did. Point is not exactly that important, but I like details. Details are where the truth is generally hidden.
Quote from: Captain Ford
Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?Fair enough, except you are only half right. I avoid confrontation unless it has meaning and I can virtually guarantee it is the correct or at least best course of action. I contradicted Tiruin because he made an incorrect use of an internet custom, which I can easily back up with countless sources and absolute knowledge.
The strength of the post was because I prefer to teach by practice. The post was about using emphasis versus yelling, so I yelled at him, and used emphasis on a sentence that would logically use emphasis.
Okay now, wait. Tiruin, why did you deny being the doctor when I accused you of it? Did you have a good reason?+1
He makes a fair point. I'm interested in your reply.
Onyx: Concerning your reasoning for voting me, do you not see ties as a bad thing? I already addressed this point above, but I wanted to ask why you think that breaking a tie was a bad reason for me to vote?
Conerning the ReDeadEr lynch, I remembered something important: I started ripping into ReDeadEr on day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3941709#msg3941709). I was not at all kind to him, and I had been pushing him for a good while before the lynch. If I was bussing him, then I started on day 1. I only unvoted him to break the tie, then I went right back to him on day 2. I unvoted him because I pitied him, thought he might be the doctor, and wanted to put some pressure on burn_heal. But when it came down to the wire, I thought ReDeadEr was scummier, or at the very least he was less valuable to the town.You make a fair point. I failed to bring it up, because I was ignoring Day One. I remember it being rather... silly. Probably because I was treating it as a game, and didn't pay enough attention to such details. I should be more careful in future searches. Thank you for bringing this up, I'll take it into consideration next time I check to see if you are a back-stabbing murderous bandit.
You failed to bring this up. Why? My decision to off him wasn't nearly as spurious as you made it out to be. I've mentioned this before, and you have access to the LurkerTracker (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?sort=post&url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.0), so you shouldn't have missed it.
Spoiler: Rambling (click to show/hide)
Now to spare some WoT for the good doctor, Tiruin. Why didn't you claim before now? You yourself said it would be a better time, though you never said good, better is still better, for a claim. Why give advice you wouldn't follow? Were you trying to get a bandit to claim so you could counter-claim?
Now to wait and be ignored.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 09, 2013, 06:41:11 pm
First of all, I see what you pointed out about the buddying ... thing, but I'd take the position that both posts could be seen that way.
As to why I never questioned people on whether or not they answered my questions, we have been over this. It is a combination of
A: "If they aren't answering my questions, why would they answer my questions about why they aren't answering?". Or, in other words, if you see someone with their back to you and when you call out to them and shake them but they show no signs of acknowledging your presence. Do you continue shouting and physically berating them or do you move on and consider them deaf, mute, or otherwise engaged?
B: I didn't think to ask. As evidenced by my forgetting we can extend, I'm not a very organized person by any stretch of the imagination.
To reiterate, "I feel like such a jerkass >_<".
Still, it's things like that that made you suspicious. It's not that I don't buy into your explanation, it's that your explanation doesn't really make it not scummy.
I'll admit that I forgot how that conversation started. I didn't realize I accused you of not going after us right off the bat. I could have sworn it started somewhere else.Quote from: Captain FordHe later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his questions. Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?Alright, now this one is just funny to me. There is so much wrong with this, I will make a dedicated portion of this post ridiculing it.Quote from: Captain FordHe later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his question.Allow me some quotes, friend, as this is chronologically and definitively wrong.
Reply #214 on: January 28, 2013, 06:02:44 pmSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Reply #215 on: January 28, 2013, 06:21:10 pmSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, with those dates in mind, I did not bring it up. You did. Point is not exactly that important, but I like details. Details are where the truth is generally hidden.
Well, anyways. I'll retract the portion about you bringing it up. Change "He later brought it up, complaining" to "When I brought it up, he complained that".
I'm not attacking the post that you made, only the fact that you didn't also remind us about your questions. My point was that you clearly had the courage to do it, but didn't for some reason. You also didn't really seem frustrated in any post before the one where you said that people were ignoring your questions.Quote from: Captain FordNow, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?Fair enough, except you are only half right. I avoid confrontation unless it has meaning and I can virtually guarantee it is the correct or at least best course of action. I contradicted Tiruin because he made an incorrect use of an internet custom, which I can easily back up with countless sources and absolute knowledge.
The strength of the post was because I prefer to teach by practice. The post was about using emphasis versus yelling, so I yelled at him, and used emphasis on a sentence that would logically use emphasis.
I also find it hard to believe that you didn't think of it, though. If you've read any other games, people missing questions is a very common thing, and reminders are equally common. There's at least a few examples in this game alone.
Now, you said that you "avoid confrontation unless it has meaning and I can virtually guarantee it is the correct or at least best course of action". How does that apply to reminding people to answer your questions? Wasn't asking the questions in the first place confrontational? Why is following them up so different?
You quoted, but didn't actually respond to this:
Onyx: Concerning your reasoning for voting me, do you not see ties as a bad thing? I already addressed this point above, but I wanted to ask why you think that breaking a tie was a bad reason for me to vote?
Thank you for bringing this up, I'll take it into consideration next time I check to see if you are a back-stabbing murderous bandit....ouch. There's a lot of venom in that statement.
If I'm lavishing the board in noob tells, Tiruin, I intend to use that apparent naivete to the fullest.This quote stands out to me. I never saw it before.
Post by: Tiruin on February 10, 2013, 05:32:18 pm
Ford
FUUUUUUUU........{I saw this (meaning your vote on Onyx) last night before logging off and wanted to reply to it in the following manner:
And here I am in the morning wondering if Tiruin wasn't playing into my preconceptions all along.
Ugh...I need to take a close look at what Tiruin said that made me think he was a doctor in the first place and see if he could have faked that. Unvote.
I feel like such a jerkass. >_<
Are you sure of a claim that you drop a vote as is?
Glad you're doing the right thing - taking all probabilities into account. :P
Remember: At times like these, it is best to utilize what time is given to you to think about, decide, and see what for yourself is the best course of action.}
Erm, "feel like such a jerkass"?
Quote
I need to take a close look at what Tiruin said that made me think he was a doctor in the first place and see if he could have faked that.So you voted on the whim of voting, because...you saw your beliefs to be right over whatever else was going on at the moment, right?
Quote from: Ford
Okay now, wait. Tiruin, why did you deny being the doctor when I accused you of it? Did you have a good reason?{Note that I said it in my player voice, just to clear out anything that might arise from it...}
Why did you say on day 5 that a doctor claim would be more valuable then as opposed to day 4? Why didn't you claim at that time if you thought it would be valuable?
Quote from: What Tiruin said
Also, I believe it is seemingly better for the doctor to claim now, other than yesterday.
Also, concerning your protect choice day 4. Wouldn't that imply that I was the last bandit, and I tried to kill Onyx? From a scum perspective, I could see myself killing off the only other non-IC in order to get the two ICs to rip into each other. What makes me curious is that you didn't see this possibility, or at least didn't mention it. Why not?[/quote]
Quote from: Day 4; when you 'accused' me of it. {Nerjin, edit the OP title, not the post title XD}
Now, here I didn't see an 'accusation' insomuch as a subtle poke at a possibility you had at that point. Meaning: 'A charge of wrongdoing that is made against a person or other party.' isn't what I saw it as - you stating it at this point seems...like you're forwarding something else? Of course, at this time it was MYLO.Tiruin: Did you protect me during Night 2? If not, who did you protect?
Quote from: What I had at that time
Day 1 - Captain Ford
Day 2 - Captain Ford
Day 3 - Captain Ford
Day 4 - Onyxjew944
OK. Here you can see that the only one that I've seemingly protected was Ford. Onyx and Irony at that time were unclear.
Why I denied it at that time, was because of MYLO. If I had claimed it after following my reasoning at that point - and to be honest, I really felt like such because of how the past days went before thinking this - then I would either be defending (on the possibility) a scum Non-NK [Scum didn't NK and Ford is scum], or....well, that is it actually.
Reason is, I still couldn't be sure despite what the results say. Day 5 cleared it up.
Quote
Why did you say on day 5 that a doctor claim would be more valuable then as opposed to day 4? Why didn't you claim at that time if you thought it would be valuable?> 1 more day = more results if the doctor hasn't been roleblocked.
> I said 'seemingly'. This doesn't mean I would've followed it unless I was very certain about my results. Note that when I do say 'very certain', I mean not susceptible to WIFOM.
Query:
Contrasting with your words in the unvote post,
Quote
What made you come to this conclusion? That I was following your thoughts or...something else?Your reasoning on your protect choices is solid. The reasoning behind investigating me is solid, too. I would have done the same.
On another note, I now see you're using Occam's razor in your explanations. Erm, yeah, I never got to the idea that you were going on the simplest route, and then defending that idea.
HOWEVER, you have made that idea the crux of your defense, and the essence of your whole case thus far - not changing it. At all...
Quote
So we were thinking the same thing the whole time. The fact that you were questioning me on it made me doubt myself, which is why you noticed so much confusion.So me questioning your survival was something for doubt? Why? Wouldn't a doctor - who was the only one who could know who he would protect (other than scum) - try to question everyone, including who he had protected? I mean, you couldn't have known that at the time other than working on an assumption.
Wait for the next post for me to get my head straight...
Post by: Tiruin on February 10, 2013, 06:00:39 pm
Also, EBWOP:
Quote
why did you deny being the doctor when I accused you of it? Did you have a good reason?I missed copy-pasting this from notepad.
> I could've been NK'd, you could've been scum, and none could've been the wiser. A doctor's protect functions much like the cop's, but the results vary a lot more in another way - I was taking all possibilities into account - that the scum non-NK'd at the time and I would've been fooled.
I know the chances seem slim, nay, even near impossible (much like coincidence) at the time for that to happen, but these things do happen in Mafia games. It's just up to the action'er to interpret the conclusion of it, and continue the hunt.
Quote
Also, concerning your protect choice day 4. Wouldn't that imply that I was the last bandit, and I tried to kill Onyx? From a scum perspective, I could see myself killing off the only other non-IC in order to get the two ICs to rip into each other. What makes me curious is that you didn't see this possibility, or at least didn't mention it. Why not?You mean your protect choice "NIGHT" 4...right?
Now, if this was a typo (which I still want answered), I'd have two people who survived because of my protect.
Like I said, all perspectives taken into account - maybe scum non-NK'd and the hell just happened. Maybe there was an NK and I protected em, and then scum non-NK'd at Night 4. It's a wild conclusion to be getting there, and I've no proof that you're being honest with your preference of the alleged NK-if-you-were-scum situation.
Besides, if you were - that may be one situation in a pile of 3: You kill either me or Irony, leave Onyx. Or you kill onyx and leave us. This is why I'd not interpret NKs from that PoV. It is hard to justify, and even harder to follow up in reasoning.
Onyx
[...]Err, bromance? O_o
Quote
A: "If they aren't answering my questions, why would they answer my questions about why they aren't answering?". Or, in other words, if you see someone with their back to you and when you call out to them and shake them but they show no signs of acknowledging your presence. Do you continue shouting and physically berating them or do you move on and consider them deaf, mute, or otherwise engaged?You only poked at them...once (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3987419#msg3987419).
I forgot to address them here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3971612#msg3971612).
You did not say it in your post afterwards. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3972855#msg3972855)
Quote
B: I didn't think to ask. As evidenced by my forgetting we can extend, I'm not a very organized person by any stretch of the imagination.Oh. Understandable, then...
So by reading further below, you explain that - there was a 20 minute difference between those Reply #214-215 with your answer in 215 -
Quote
If you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.Which means you were waiting for answers to your questions, aye?
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention.
Quote
Details are where the truth is generally hidden.Hidden?
Quote
I contradicted Tiruin because he made an incorrect use of an internet custom, which I can easily back up with countless sources and absolute knowledge.But then that was not connected to me answering your questions - something Ford, I guess - picked up (by the post there in your post).
Anyway, back to topic.
Onyx, waiting for your answer to the quote you...blanked.
Also, it seems you dedicated the- err, whole post of that post to explaining the matter on questions, your seeming lack of poking the questions at the right time, and what not. Seems more like a newbie tell to me because your were honest enough to say so (and forgetfulness. That happens too :/)
Buuuuuuut, I see nothing in reference to what Ford did when he voted you. Aren't you...in the least, wondering why he did so? You didn't seem like poking that one, right there.
What is your read at the moment - the cause for your unvote included - and what is your take on Ford voting then unvoting you?
Quote from: Lastly
Wait for the next post for me to get my head straight...Err, yeah. I posted that before reading on what Onyx said, then the reply done by Ford...Leaving too many questions to be asked for me to give my say fully on the current votes.
Mod Timecount?
Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nerjin on February 10, 2013, 07:27:56 pm
Day 6 will end 2/11/2013 at 5PM. There are 22 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944: Captain Ford,
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944,
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 10, 2013, 08:17:50 pm
Onyxjew944:Fair enough. I'll just let this one sink into the public conscious to be taken as it will. I don't have much more to say on the topic, so I suppose this is the end for discussing it. Or at least the end for me offering new material on it. I have no idea how to end this paragraph. Zebra.
First of all, I see what you pointed out about the buddying ... thing, but I'd take the position that both posts could be seen that way.[/spoiler]
True, I was just pointing that one out because it seemed to be the more... obvious one. I didn't really know which one he meant, but I just assumed that one. Come to think of it, I actually attacked him in both of those posts. Irrelevant.As to why I never questioned people on whether or not they answered my questions, we have been over this. It is a combination of
A: "If they aren't answering my questions, why would they answer my questions about why they aren't answering?". Or, in other words, if you see someone with their back to you and when you call out to them and shake them but they show no signs of acknowledging your presence. Do you continue shouting and physically berating them or do you move on and consider them deaf, mute, or otherwise engaged?
B: I didn't think to ask. As evidenced by my forgetting we can extend, I'm not a very organized person by any stretch of the imagination.
To reiterate, "I feel like such a jerkass >_<".
Still, it's things like that that made you suspicious. It's not that I don't buy into your explanation, it's that your explanation doesn't really make it not scummy.
Ah, yes. This was the part I thought I edited. I was completely out of line here. I acted superior and arrogant over a simple timeline issue that held little real relevance or merit for how I acted about it. I should stop writing these while half-asleep. Please accept my apologies about that.I'll admit that I forgot how that conversation started. I didn't realize I accused you of not going after us right off the bat. I could have sworn it started somewhere else.Quote from: Captain FordHe later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his questions. Now, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?Alright, now this one is just funny to me. There is so much wrong with this, I will make a dedicated portion of this post ridiculing it.Quote from: Captain FordHe later brought it up, complaining that no one was answering his question.Allow me some quotes, friend, as this is chronologically and definitively wrong.
Reply #214 on: January 28, 2013, 06:02:44 pmSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Reply #215 on: January 28, 2013, 06:21:10 pmSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Now, with those dates in mind, I did not bring it up. You did. Point is not exactly that important, but I like details. Details are where the truth is generally hidden.
Well, anyways. I'll retract the portion about you bringing it up. Change "He later brought it up, complaining" to "When I brought it up, he complained that".
Haven't, actually. I was going to read my way through at least one before I started but when I saw the BM running, I figured I could just pick it up as I went along. As for examples in this game, I remember seeing them, at least one of them was from you to me, but I just never registered it. I don't have a very good excuse for my actions beyond noobishness and a horrid memory.I'm not attacking the post that you made, only the fact that you didn't also remind us about your questions. My point was that you clearly had the courage to do it, but didn't for some reason. You also didn't really seem frustrated in any post before the one where you said that people were ignoring your questions.Quote from: Captain FordNow, while I can believe he has a personality that prefers to avoid confrontation, he chose to post something that directly contradicted you. He actually came out very strong about it. But he wasn't brave enough to nag you to answer his question?Fair enough, except you are only half right. I avoid confrontation unless it has meaning and I can virtually guarantee it is the correct or at least best course of action. I contradicted Tiruin because he made an incorrect use of an internet custom, which I can easily back up with countless sources and absolute knowledge.
The strength of the post was because I prefer to teach by practice. The post was about using emphasis versus yelling, so I yelled at him, and used emphasis on a sentence that would logically use emphasis.
I also find it hard to believe that you didn't think of it, though. If you've read any other games, people missing questions is a very common thing, and reminders are equally common. There's at least a few examples in this game alone.
Quote
Now, you said that you "avoid confrontation unless it has meaning and I can virtually guarantee it is the correct or at least best course of action". How does that apply to reminding people to answer your questions? Wasn't asking the questions in the first place confrontational? Why is following them up so different?That was actually more of the rant concerning the Tiruin post and it's relevance to my lack of posting. I think these tangents have gotten quite tangled. In the interest of avoiding even more confusion on either of our parts, I'll just start over with the last two questions.
Yes, yes it was confrontational. No, no it is not. It never occurred to me.
You quoted, but didn't actually respond to this:Oh, quite right, thank you. I must have forgotten that quote when I wrote the original post.Onyx: Concerning your reasoning for voting me, do you not see ties as a bad thing? I already addressed this point above, but I wanted to ask why you think that breaking a tie was a bad reason for me to vote?
Now I know I had something in mind but got sidetracked doing... something. Unimportant, you asked why I thought breaking a tie was a bad reason for voting. I was unclear. Breaking a tie was a decent enough reason for almost all of your votes, but when I wrote that I was trying to decide who was more scummy. And at that time I didn't see either of you as very scummy at all. Yet I knew one of you was, so when I made my decision I was also trying to make it as convincing as I could to Tiruin to get you lynched. I probably should have let up on all the derogatory remarks, I have no idea what was going through my head during half of that.
Believe it or not, that one was bad word choice. I was actually just writing a paragraph to show I acknowledged the statement, and didn't really pay much attention to what I was putting in it. Yet another little gem of sarcasm and wrath that got past the censors. I'll try to launder these better next time.Thank you for bringing this up, I'll take it into consideration next time I check to see if you are a back-stabbing murderous bandit....ouch. There's a lot of venom in that statement.[/spoiler]
Tiruin
Captain Ford
Where do you stand? Do you see us both as scummy, or both as town? Leaning toward one but just not quite sure?
Onyxjew
I, personally, am heavily conflicted. Both of you are being reasonable, can argue for your defense, and are showing no obvious signs. Oddly, Tiruin's doctor claim actually made him look scummier to me. I don't know why, but something in that post just felt... off. Captain Ford, I forgot what set me off before, but I remember I had something that I was relatively sure about.
The only thing I truly know is that I have a lot of reading to do; RL- and Mafia-wise. If I'm less active than I should be, it would be because night school returns tomorrow.
Tiruin, I was writing this for the better part of a day, and I didn't manage to post it by the time you posted. I'll probably have a few amendments or additions when I finish reading those.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 10, 2013, 08:34:34 pm
OnyxAye. Bromance.[...]Err, bromance? O_o
Quote from: Urban Dictonary
a highly formed friendship between male friends, or "bro's"Yes... in retrospect I used that word lightly. Considering I did just turn a metaphorical gun on him about a day ago. So, Buddying it is.
No, I believe I gave up on getting them answered. By the time this conversation on my personal brand of innate forum ninja had reached its current tempo it was a conversation of three, and questions were generally being answered. I think.QuoteA: "If they aren't answering my questions, why would they answer my questions about why they aren't answering?". Or, in other words, if you see someone with their back to you and when you call out to them and shake them but they show no signs of acknowledging your presence. Do you continue shouting and physically berating them or do you move on and consider them deaf, mute, or otherwise engaged?You only poked at them...once (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3987419#msg3987419).
I forgot to address them here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3971612#msg3971612).
You did not say it in your post afterwards. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3972855#msg3972855)QuoteB: I didn't think to ask. As evidenced by my forgetting we can extend, I'm not a very organized person by any stretch of the imagination.Oh. Understandable, then...
So by reading further below, you explain that - there was a 20 minute difference between those Reply #214-215 with your answer in 215 -QuoteIf you notice, Ford, no one, let me repeat, no one answered my questions. Ever. After Day One, not a single question of mine has gotten answered. Not. One.Which means you were waiting for answers to your questions, aye?
I think that explains why I don't do much but defend, because nothing else is payed any attention.
That'd be the idea. Implying you need to look carefully to see what's really there.QuoteDetails are where the truth is generally hidden.Hidden?
Quote
It wasn't. As I said, the tangents have gotten tangled. That particular argument was based on why I was suddenly assertive about internet ettiquette while I was being passive about letting questions go without answers.QuoteI contradicted Tiruin because he made an incorrect use of an internet custom, which I can easily back up with countless sources and absolute knowledge.But then that was not connected to me answering your questions - something Ford, I guess - picked up (by the post there in your post).
Buuuuuuut, I see nothing in reference to what Ford did when he voted you. Aren't you...in the least, wondering why he did so? You didn't seem like poking that one, right there.I think I can lump these together into one answer. Am I concerned that Ford voted and unvoted me? Not really, to be perfectly honest. I figured it was a pressure vote that was dismissed when it stopped being relevant. The previous sentence being the answer to your second question as well.
What is your read at the moment - the cause for your unvote included - and what is your take on Ford voting then unvoting you?
Quote
Summary of my ideas on both of you are below, after the three horizontal rules.Where?
^Thar be a question.
Extend. The current activity makes it feel like more time would be used properly.
Post by: Tiruin on February 10, 2013, 09:04:24 pm
QuoteSummary of my ideas on both of you are below, after the three horizontal rules.Where?
^Thar be a question.
There were no 3 horizontal rules, because I was waiting on you...Quote from: LastlyWait for the next post for me to get my head straight...Err, yeah. I posted that before reading on what Onyx said, then the reply done by Ford...Leaving too many questions to be asked for me to give my say fully on the current votes.
Quote
I, personally, am heavily conflicted. Both of you are being reasonable, can argue for your defense, and are showing no obvious signs. Oddly, Tiruin's doctor claim actually made him look scummier to me. I don't know why, but something in that post just felt... off. Captain Ford, I forgot what set me off before, but I remember I had something that I was relatively sure about.What's about it that's off? And...you're telling Ford that something caught your eye, but then you forgot?
:/
Post by: Nerjin on February 11, 2013, 12:51:02 pm
Day 6 will end 2/11/2013 at 5PM. There are 4 hours left.
1 vote for extension.
0 votes for shorten
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944: Captain Ford,
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944,
Post by: Nerjin on February 11, 2013, 05:29:12 pm
Night 6 will end 2/12/2013 at 5PM. There are 24 hours left.
The Old Parchment Reads:
Onyxjew944: Captain Ford,
Captain Ford: Tiruin,
Tiruin:
Not voting: Onyxjew944,
Post by: Nerjin on February 11, 2013, 09:20:13 pm
“You’re the only one who could have done it.” Stated Captain Ford “No one else here had a motive! We all knew you hated Ol’ Jimmy Pete! You were best friends with ReDeadEr!”
“I’m just a Regular Townsfolk!” Shouted Onyxjew as the others cut off any chance of escape. There was nowhere to go. “St-stay back! I swear I’ll shoot!” Onyxjew944 threatened his trembling gun switching between Captain Ford and Tiruin almost as soon as it landed on one or the other. Finally, in desperation, Onyx pulled back the hammer of his weapon fully intending to take Ford’s life.
Bang!
As the sound of the gun faded out Onyx dropped his gun, reaching for his bleeding throat. He lived only a few seconds longer.
“Well I suppose-“
A second crack rang out as the revolver flew from Captain Ford’s hand.
“What? It was you!” Cried out Captain Ford as he turned to see Tiruin pointing his gun at him.
“Well well… Now it is down to you… and it is down to me.” Tiruin’s smile could not have been wider as he slowly approached the shell-shocked Captain Ford “Not too bad for a simple Wrangler is it? No one ever suspected me.”
“But you! Why?”
“For the money of course. Granted I would have preferred a less… bloody acquisition. I don’t suppose you’d be willing to let me go off scot-free would ya?”
“Never!” Captain Ford shouted as he began to try to find a way out of this situation. His gun was within arm’s reach, all it would take is a quick dive… But Tiruin was obviously a lot better than he let on. There was no chance for him to get a shot in before Tiruin.
“Now now, never is a strong word isn’t it? Wouldn’t want to end up like Onyx over there would ya? Just a Regular Townsfolk bleeding to death in the dusty wind? Nah, I always liked ya though. So how about a free chance? One last show-down before one of us leaves to meet ol’ Jimmy Pete one last time?”
“Why would I do that?” Growled Ford as a small gust of wind began.
“Simple, I could just kill you now. Now pick up the gun, ah, slowly… Good. Holster it; if you pull back that hammer you’re dead.” Tiruin kept his gun trained on Ford’s head as he directed him to the middle of the street kicking the body of Onyx out of the way as he passed. Looking briefly at the ground he found exactly what he was looking for as the wind began to kick up to a near tempest in speed.
“Here we go!” The wind died down “This rock will be our judge.” Picking up an easily visible rock he stood with it in his left hand “When this rock hits the ground we draw.” The wind picked up again causing Tiruin to shout “No cheating. The winner gets Ol’ Jimmy’s gold. The loser gets an all expense paid trip to hell. Deal?”
“Deal.” Ford shouted over the wind. This was his last chance. As soon as the rock hit the ground… It would all be over.
It seemed to happen in slow motion. Tiruin tossed the rock up into the air as the wind whipped his duster coat around at a near insane velocity. Ford’s eyes were fixed to the stone as it reached its apex. Crack!!!
With that Captain Ford fell to the ground dead. A bullet placed dead center between his eyes.
The rock landed with a small thud as the wind died again “Draw.” Chuckled Tiruin as he spun his gun around on his finger before holstering it with a flourish. “You’re pretty good. Too trusting though.” Tiruin stated as he walked past the corpse of Onyxjew and proceeded to retrieve the gold from the remains of the courthouse.
No one truly knows what happened after Tiruin left Jackelope. Newspapers of the day speak of his suicide. Acting on an anonymous tip the authorities investigated the small ghost-town only to find a nearly rotten corpse in the middle of the road. A single bullet placed betwixt its eyes. All identification pointed to the fact that Tiruin, in a fit of despair, had killed himself in atonement.
Across the border in the tiny ghost town of Chupacabara, however, the real Tiruin laughed as he took another sip of liquor. The authorities were so easy to fool. Everyone of them were the same. He couldn’t wait to live out his days in relative decadence. He’d never have to work again. “Oh Maria?” Called the devilish rogue “I don’t suppose I could get another one of these eh?”
“Say did you hear?” Asked a nearby locale to his friend “Senor Verdan has found a large stache of gold! We’re all going to get rich off of the gold rush! Isn’t that wonderful Senor Tiruin!?”
Tiruin himself simply smiled as he replied “Well… There’s nothing wrong with acquiring a bit of cash is there?”
SCUM WIN!!!
Onyxjew944 was night killed! He was a Regular Townsfolk
Captain Ford was just a bit too slow. He was a Regular Townsfolk
Tiruin wins! He is a Bandit Wrangler
ReDeadEr wins post-mortem! He was a Regular Bandit
Spoiler: Town Wins Flavors! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Role PMs for Replacements (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 1 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 2 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 3 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 4 actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 5 actions (click to show/hide)
Bandit Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/iEYSi3FXCGk
Dead Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/ZB7LE3w2tYmJ
Post by: zombie urist on February 11, 2013, 09:25:35 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on February 11, 2013, 09:51:04 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on February 11, 2013, 09:54:50 pm
Post by: Nerjin on February 11, 2013, 10:08:37 pm
I'm sorry to hear you won't be joining any other games I mod. I may not mod any for a while as it stands. Again... Sorry.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 11, 2013, 10:13:44 pm
I don't actually hate you for this. But it's a real shame. This was a fantastic game, and I feel like we were all cheated by not being able to complete it. I know I was...
Doing things in a hurry is never a good idea.
Post by: superBlast on February 11, 2013, 10:30:38 pm
And damn, I was only half correct. I was right about ford being town, but I was almost all in on Onyx being scum. Tiruin had me convinced he was the doctor.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 11, 2013, 10:54:27 pm
Post by: Captain Ford on February 11, 2013, 11:57:33 pm
Post by: ReDeadEr on February 12, 2013, 12:21:14 am
Post by: zombie urist on February 12, 2013, 12:23:06 am
Well I liked the ending, good job on that Nerjin.Thats 1/3 correct. :P
And damn, I was only half correct. I was right about ford being town, but I was almost all in on Onyx being scum. Tiruin had me convinced he was the doctor.
Post by: IronyOwl on February 12, 2013, 04:17:20 am
Having Tiruin as the last bandit was really tough on town, since he tends to be fairly verbose and can be downright indecipherable sometimes. He certainly tried to encourage people to follow up on their suspicions of him, though.
Also, if it's any consolation, Ford, the game was meant foremost to be a learning experience. You certainly seem like you're done with BMs and can move on to "real" games now anyway.
Post by: notquitethere on February 12, 2013, 08:41:16 am
Good game, I'm only sad to see Town's chances Tiruined!
Post by: Skyrunner on February 12, 2013, 08:43:05 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 12, 2013, 08:49:59 am
Anyhow, reflection: All you players. DId. Great.
Especially to the last two survivors - I was actually online during the small respite, deciding whether to shift vote (as was how the BM I ran ended >.>) or extend.
I chose neither - it seems you've all learned and played a wonderful game as far as there, and that the next BM is going to need more players.
Quote
Having Tiruin as the last bandit was really tough on town, since he tends to be fairly verbose and can be downright indecipherable sometimes.I misplace my synonyms. My apologies for my bad play.
I loved the flavor. Reminded me of the days when I played a wild west themed RPG. Was very nostalgic - especially the duel XD
Also, Ford unvoted by the way. It would've ended in an Onyx lynch.
Post by: Captain Ford on February 12, 2013, 09:58:46 am
So good game to all players. I would really like to know how Onyx would have voted, assuming I had voted Tiruin and he'd had the chance to make a decision.
Post by: Teneb on February 12, 2013, 10:08:49 am
Also, to all would-be-players: BM XXXVIV is now ready.
Post by: Onyxjew944 on February 12, 2013, 07:15:07 pm
Ugh. The good thing about my moods is that they never last. I'm not completely back to normal yet, but I'm getting there. I firmly believe life is both too long and too short to hold grudges.Truth be told, I wanted to explore Tiruin's doctor claim more. If I was put completely to the grindstone and had to vote on one of you, I would have done what my roots in RTD tell me to do. The RNG knows all, sees all, and only tells some of it.
So good game to all players. I would really like to know how Onyx would have voted, assuming I had voted Tiruin and he'd had the chance to make a decision.
I.e. Random.org two-sided die would be my weapon of choice. For the fun of it, let's see what that would have meant.... Ford. Heh, go figure.
Anyway, this game was really fun. I'll be looking into another game later on, right now I think I should wait for more free time.