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Finally... => Creative Projects => Topic started by: Killjoy on December 24, 2012, 08:51:43 pm

Title: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 24, 2012, 08:51:43 pm
Hello there fellow bay12ers.

I am Killjoy, I am pretty new on these forums, but nevertheless I want to share my latest personal programming sideproject with you all! This thread will be the development/update thread. I plan to add development posts where I show the process of developing specific game features.
I honestly have no great plan for how I want to go about doing this, nor do I have any plan about what I want the end product to look like. Perhaps I will figure something out along the way. For now I just want to have a game about trading in a extremely hostile and random world.
Please note that English is not my native language, so no need to berate me for making mistakes.

The premise
The game is pretty simple at its core.
You play a merchant, stuck in a procedurally generated fantasy world. Your goal is to trade, establish trade routes and create industry.
Simple huh?

Technology
The game will be written in Java, as the development will double as some Java development experience.
I am by no means a Java expert.. My foundation is c/c++, and at work I work with python.

Update log
Day_1: Below
Day_2:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3903135#msg3903135)
Day_3:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3905842#msg3905842)
Day_4:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3911721#msg3911721)
Day_5:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3913938#msg3913938)
Day_6:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3919053#msg3919053)
Day_7:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3927718#msg3927718)
Day_8:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3937025#msg3937025)
Day_9:  post  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120863.msg3954097#msg3954097)

Day_1
Let us start by making a window. It is not much, but it is a start.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

An empty window is pretty boring, and hardly anything gamelike. Perhaps I should start by making a terrain. I decided on a pretty retro style, by iterating through each point on the terrain drawing a pixel directly above the terrain point. This way I can just use the terrain offset to create a cheap and retro looking graphics style.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, if you think this looks like a square, then you are right. I have not added any height variation yet, but lets try tot add some random perlin noise to the 'terrain'.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Personally I think this looks extremely boring, this is technically three dimensional, so lets add some rotation.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Great, now I can spin the whole thing around. This will help exploring the terrain later. I think it's time to stresstest the whole thing, so I increased the mapsize to 1024x1024
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, the terrain lacks detail. You cannot even see it is three dimensional, as it just looks like a green blob. The terrain should change color depending on what height it has for now, I should just try with some simple color scheme.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It still looks a bit bland. So perhaps adding water will give that much needed definition to the terrain.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Water did make it much more interesting to look at, I found a pretty cool cove. But the terrain itself still lacks detail. I thought long and hard about this, and decided I should try using something called normal mapping. The details are not really important, but basically, things facing the "sun" should be more illuminated than things not facing the sun. Perhaps that will give me the much needed detail.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, that did the trick! The terrain looks pretty cool now. I doubt I will want to work on it more. Now that I have a simple game world, I should throw some random cities(okay, just points, with names) around the map and see how it looks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This looks pretty neat. The city Nyvy has taken the cool bay/cove like feature I found earlier, and it looks like the city of Rumsa is guarding the bay and city of Xulrullug. All the city names are basically generated from a short list of consonants and vowels, in the future I might want to add some more sophisticated name generation.

Anyway, that is all I managed to make today. Anyway, feel free to leave a post, I would like some suggestions to how the gameplay itself will play out.
My next task will be to actually add some city rendering, and perhaps add calculate some trade routes between cities!
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: freeformschooler on December 24, 2012, 09:36:37 pm
That is some good looking terrain. Reminds me of old generated game maps like in the Civ series. I'll be watching this.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 24, 2012, 10:29:33 pm
The software as it is now could be useful as a quick map generator. Not bad for a day.
Of course, no game yet.

I'd be interested to see where this goes. How will the cities develop? Will history be simulated? Will there be at least aesthetic differences between cities, based on terrain, neighbors, etc? How much are varying biomes and such simulated?
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 25, 2012, 05:43:07 am
That is some good looking terrain. Reminds me of old generated game maps like in the Civ series. I'll be watching this.
That was the idea! :)

I'd be interested to see where this goes. How will the cities develop? Will history be simulated? Will there be at least aesthetic differences between cities, based on terrain, neighbors, etc? How much are varying biomes and such simulated?
I am doing a little more work on the world now, as I need it before starting doing any history.
Cities will develop based on proximity to natural resources. Just now the cities are just points on the map, but I had in mind to actually render them. I still don't really know how much I will go into those details.
Biomes will be placed mostly using some random noise. But things like elevation, temperature and humidity will affect whether or not they are actually placed.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 25, 2012, 10:38:45 am
I'm glad my expectations weren't too high. Keep up the good work and Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 26, 2012, 09:38:14 am
Day_2
Making the world come alive
Yesterday I sadly did not get to work much on the project. It is that time of the year where there are a lot of "Yule" feasts, yes I am scandinavian.

I spent quite a lot of time thinking how exactly I wanted to go about making the world. I did not want the biomes and resources not to be hardcoded, but rather easily modifiable. So, I decided that all biome data should be in XML form, and the game would then place them in game based on this data. An example biome XML file below:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want resources to be able to require specific biomes. For an example a hypothetical "sand" resource could require almost any biome. The means that both Plains and Desert should be able to contain a "sand" resource. I should this by making an <inheirits> tag. By doing this the "sand" resource could require the "base" biome. Biomes should also be able to do more advanced things like modify the output of a resource. So our "sand" resource could have another property called "outputModifier", which would modify output based on some factor, if the biome it resides on is a specific biome and not just one that acts like BASE.

Either way, after making these sample biome files, and learning how to load them. I knew I should start working on making more advanced world generation. First step? Making a temperature gradient. So I took my terrain back to basics:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In real life temperature varies based on latitude. The reason for this can be explained by trigonometry, in my simplified world it can approximate it using the sine function, so we get a nice latitude based gradient:
(Red, means warm, black means cold)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This approximation is not really accurate, it assumes that the planets rotation axis is orthogonal to the orbital plane. In real life the earth is tilted. This means that the regions that gets the most sun exposure is only equator, but also the areas around equator:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like this temperature distribution more.
Temperature is also based on elevation, sun exposure, and humidity. Let's start with elevation and sun exposure. These are easy enough to calculate, and gives us this temperature distribution:
(Blue very cold! Green temperate. Red tropical)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I like the temperature gradient a lot. I doubt I will work much more on it for now, I will perhaps factor in humidity when I implement it.

Time to try out the biomes now! (I will ignore humidity for now and figure out a way to calculate it later, I imagine I will have to do some simple cloud/weather simulation, so it can wait for the next update)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Success! The biomes work! I want to add some more advanced biome functionality, but it should be fine for now.
Next step, work on humidity, more biome options and resources.

If you have any suggestions or questions, please feel free to post them! :)
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Skyrunner on December 26, 2012, 10:26:09 am
I'm wodering how you have that mad productivity. :<
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 26, 2012, 10:57:47 am
I'm wodering how you have that mad productivity. :<
I have nothing better to do right now, also the project is going well so I am enjoying it. :)
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: JWNoctis on December 26, 2012, 11:57:03 am
Definitely looks interesting, posting to watch.

And by the way, what do you mean by "extremely hostile"? Does that mean dangerous creatures, roving brigands, xenophobic civilization, unstable politic and economy, extreme climate, or a combination of these and more?

Anyway, that's really some progress for just two days! Keep it coming!
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Araph on December 26, 2012, 01:56:54 pm
So, you've made a terrain generator, complete with biomes, temperatures, and resources.

And you did it in two days.

I'm wondering how you have that mad productivity. :<

My current theory is that he's actually a time-traveler. He's been looping through the past two days to get farther along without us knowing.

But seriously, awesome job so far! I'll definitely be following this thread.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 26, 2012, 02:35:33 pm
And by the way, what do you mean by "extremely hostile"? Does that mean dangerous creatures, roving brigands, xenophobic civilization, unstable politic and economy, extreme climate, or a combination of these and more?
All of the above, or some of them, I don't know yet. What I do know is, I want loosing your merchant to be frequent.
I was thinking that perhaps you should not be playing a single merchant, but rather a family. You always play the head of the family, kinda like Crusader Kings.

My current theory is that he's actually a time-traveler. He's been looping through the past two days to get farther along without us knowing.
But seriously, awesome job so far! I'll definitely be following this thread.

Hehe, no, I just have a lot of free time =)
Thanks! I am working on doing some simple cloud simulation right now, so I can make proper humidity gradients, and have more interesting biome placement. Resources are not implemented yet. They go in after biomes.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: thobal on December 27, 2012, 01:50:17 pm
Well hell, this is how fast normal people work? I may as well give up now.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 27, 2012, 01:52:04 pm
Day_3
Making it rain
In my biome definitions I added humidity as one of the factors. I wanted humidity to only depend on rainfall in my simplistic world, but how does one calculate rainfall?
I originally did not plan on spending a lot of time on calculating rainfall. But I ended up making it way more advanced than originally anticipated.

First of all, clouds are evaporated water. So, let us start by isolating all the water in the world:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The water periodically spawn clouds. Clouds should disperse themselves, this will help them "get around corners", which will be useful later. For now the simulation just generates "blobs" around the water sources, which is perfect for what I want.
(For the more technical minded, the spread is basically Gaussian distribution, it is almost same algorithm you use to blur images)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Clouds are not static objects, they follow wind currents around globe. I don't want to simulate wind currents as it would make it a bit complicated. Instead I just cheat and all two main wind currents. A global west to east wind, and random coherent "any direction" wind. This way clouds will start forming pretty cool looking paterns:
(On this screenshot it is just the "west east" wind)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The east to west wind should only effect the cloud perodically as well, it creates much needed variation in the cloud density:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As it is right now, clouds only spawn from water sources. But, as the world does not wrap around right now, it will create quite a lot of deserts in the western parts of the world. So, instead I implemented random clouds to randomly "drift" in from the western border using perlin noise:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(You can't really see it much, but it adds to a better looking map)

Next step is to add random wind currents. This is done by generating 3d perlin noise, and moving through the "third" dimension to simulate change. Using this noise value, a random direction vector is calculated and the cloud is moved in this direction. Since the noise is "coherent" the movement direction is also coherent. Here only clouds above 0.5 in weight are drawn. These clouds will be making the terrain "wet".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Time to test out some rainfall, and see which parts of the world get wet, and what parts are left dry.
(Blue = high humidity, Black = Ocean (Ignored for now), Dark green = low humidity, Light green = mountain/low humidity)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, lets put everything together:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Perfect, this is what I wanted when I first started the project!

Alright, time to load in some test resources and distribute it on the map.
Resources like biomes, are also loaded from a XML file. This makes it very easy to add more resources when I feel the need for it. They follow this scheme:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After loading the resources, and planting them on the map. The result looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(Sorry, it is a bit cluttered, but it is to demonstrate the distribution of resources!)
For now modifiers are not in effect, but it would be easy to hook up. It is on the TODO list in my eclipse project!

That is it for Day_3, next up I will add some more resources, and work a bit on the cities, hopefully I can implement path finding to create trade routes between cities!
Feel free to leave a comment, feedback is always appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on December 27, 2012, 05:05:03 pm
Quote
My current theory is that he's actually a time-traveler. He's been looping through the past two days to get farther along without us knowing

I will admit, that is an interesting idea. A tough one to pull off but I could imagine what it would be.

It would basically be you trying to steer your ancient buisness to success all the way to the modern day (so you can enjoy your riches) by going back and forth. With plot twists happening as your major sources of income suddenly crashing leaving your buisness destitute (Black Pepper, Tulips, Olive Oil, and Aluminum all have had market crashes)
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 27, 2012, 10:24:45 pm
Would it be too much to ask you to upload the part of the code which makes the world and biomes? It looks like it's mostly complete, and it would be very useful.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Araph on December 28, 2012, 12:01:14 am
(http://i.imgur.com/0wFyD.png)

You got this far in three days?! You can't see it through the screen, but I'm respectfully doffing my imaginary hat to you.

Regarding the clouds and wind, you could have trade winds that change from going east to west and back along latitude lines, which Wikipedia knows more about than I ever will (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_winds). Your map already looks awesome, but it could add some realism further along when determining economies of cities and kingdoms.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 28, 2012, 07:20:52 am
It would basically be you trying to steer your ancient buisness to success all the way to the modern day (so you can enjoy your riches) by going back and forth. With plot twists happening as your major sources of income suddenly crashing leaving your buisness destitute (Black Pepper, Tulips, Olive Oil, and Aluminum all have had market crashes)
That could make for some very interesting gameplay, but I think it would take forever for me to implement.
I settled on going for a more Crusader Kings like approach where you control a dynasty, either only the head, or all members of the family.

Would it be too much to ask you to upload the part of the code which makes the world and biomes? It looks like it's mostly complete, and it would be very useful.
I will open source the whole thing soon. But if you really want to have a look at it I don't mind posting it.

Regarding the clouds and wind, you could have trade winds that change from going east to west and back along latitude lines,
Hmm, interesting. It could have been handy info to have when I programmed the weather simulation. I think it produces okay results for now, but if I dive into the code again at another point in time, I will probably implement something like this!
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on December 28, 2012, 10:29:55 pm
Quote
That could make for some very interesting gameplay, but I think it would take forever for me to implement.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't asking or suggesting you to do that. It would be one of those games that could easily go wrong but that would be amazing if done right.

If I did make a suggestion it would be using money for power in a world where the amount of money you are allowed to earn is dictated by your caste. A Rags to riches sort of deal with you eventually having "Merchant Princes". Possibly with different abilities showing up only later.

For example females with merchant skills won't show up while you are still poor. Yet because of the freedoms afforded to you by wealth women with actual educations start to show up, though not standardly.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 29, 2012, 06:01:54 pm
Day_4
The first small trading update
Hey all, I've been a little busy, so I did not work much on the project. I did however add a few new things, and did some under the hood work.
First of all, the rendering code was a bit slow, so I optimized it and made it run in parallel, you can't really see it in the screenshots, but it will make a difference later.
I started working on trading, for this I needed the resources to be assigned to cities in the effect radius of the specific resource. So, I started by putting cities back into the game and expanding a little on the code:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I made the cities grab the resources in their vicinity:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now lets add support for some simple exporting/importing. For now I just want to test out this initial system, so the cities just export whatever resources they have extras of, to whatever city is first on their list:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It works! :)
Alright that is what I have to show for today, as I said it was a small update.
I have implemented A star path finding, and I will show it off in the next update when I expand a bit on the trading.

Btw guys, I have a little hard time coming up with interesting trade resources, do you have any ideas?
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 29, 2012, 09:09:31 pm
Depends on the intended setting.

Speaking of resources, are resources placed then towns, or are towns placed and then resources assigned to them?
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 30, 2012, 07:43:11 am
Depends on the intended setting.
The setting is supposed to be a static medieval world. Think your average fantasy setting. 

Speaking of resources, are resources placed then towns, or are towns placed and then resources assigned to them?
Resources are placed randomly when placing biomes. It is based on the scarcity parameter.
Towns are then placed afterwards, again randomly for now.

The idea is then that towns "gather" whatever resources they are in range of. The towns then get an even share of all the resources. If only one town is in range of a resource, the town gets all the output.
My plan for today is to implement and expand a bit on this system, perhaps even make resources actual entities.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Trif on December 30, 2012, 07:56:19 am
I post to watch.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Briggsy16 on December 30, 2012, 11:51:17 am
For resources why not the ones that you get in the Civ games?

http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_resources.html

Could be worth a start, could make some biome dependant like Ivory etc.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 30, 2012, 02:33:55 pm
Depends on the intended setting.
The setting is supposed to be a static medieval world. Think your average fantasy setting. 
Okay then. Here's some ideas.
Spoiler: Food Resources (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Metals and Minerals (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Luxuries (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Misc. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Artificial (click to show/hide)
Hopefully I'm not overestimating your plans here.

Quote
Speaking of resources, are resources placed then towns, or are towns placed and then resources assigned to them?
Resources are placed randomly when placing biomes. It is based on the scarcity parameter.
Towns are then placed afterwards, again randomly for now.

The idea is then that towns "gather" whatever resources they are in range of. The towns then get an even share of all the resources. If only one town is in range of a resource, the town gets all the output.
My plan for today is to implement and expand a bit on this system, perhaps even make resources actual entities.
Neat.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 30, 2012, 02:56:48 pm
Okay then. Here's some ideas.
Oh those are very cool, I am implementing them right now.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on December 30, 2012, 03:24:27 pm
I'll retract my suggestion, it doesn't seem like the game where my idea works.

Since mine was more for a game that deals with a merchants dealings with society itself and that seems like a game about succeeding in a geopolitical sense.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 30, 2012, 03:30:23 pm
Oh no, actually I am definitely going for something like your idea. But it is just a bit too early, I am just not quite there yet to implement such things. For now I am just going for a trading sim.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on December 30, 2012, 03:30:51 pm
Oh no, actually I am definitely going for something like your idea. But it is just a bit too early, I am just not quite there yet to implement such things. For now I am just going for a trading sim.

>_<

Yay!
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Virex on December 30, 2012, 03:34:26 pm
Potatoes? In a high-fantasy medieval world? Isn't such a world usually based on the European Middle Ages?
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on December 30, 2012, 03:35:39 pm
Potatoes? In a high-fantasy medieval world? Isn't such a world usually based on the European Middle Ages?

Hey! Knights with huge flaming swords need to eat too

Also I didn't know this was fantasy, I should read closer.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 30, 2012, 04:32:21 pm
Day_5
Creating something that works
Hello all! I spend this day coming up with a good way resources should work.
I decided that cities will "produce" the resources they have in their vicinity. The system is actually quite simple, a city will get a part(Or all) of the resources in their vicinity. The city then counts up all the resources of a specific type and adds the outputs together, this value will be the amount of this resource a city will produce each month. When the city has a whole resource, it will create a resource entity, this entity will be what we will be trading between cities.
Here is a image of the system in the early stages:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When I made that image I only had a few resource types. I needed a few more, so I added quite a few of the ones GreatWyrmGold suggested. I did not add any animals, as I think I need to expand a bit on how those work before I add them in. Eitherway way, this is the mess it makes on the map when I render all the resorces:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The last thing I added today was some initial roads. It was mostly to test out my pathfinding algorithm. It is not quite ready, but it looks pretty cool!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is it for day 5! Again a relatively short day, but I don't get to pull any all nighters at the moment, and my productivity is higest when it's dark.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Gamerboy4life on December 30, 2012, 04:40:52 pm
This is really, really awesome.

PTW.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: miauw62 on December 30, 2012, 04:53:41 pm
This is really, really awesome.

PTW.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on December 31, 2012, 12:25:33 pm
I won't be making any updates today. It's new years soon, and again I won't get to work much on this.

I can however give a little update on what I am working on. I am working implementing races and civilizations, these will mostly control city placement and distribution, as it is pretty much random for now.
Race won't really matter much in terms of gameplay, at least not for now. Races only control which types of civilizations can spawn.
A civilization has one or more "cultures". Cultures will control how this specific civilization behaves, moreover it will probably control what language it speaks. (For now I just want it to make control citynames)

Cultures control the spefics of city distribution and how a civilization will expand. For an example, a culture can have a parameter "<requiresBiome>", if it is set to "Plains" the culture will attempt to only build cities on "Plains" biome. Cultures will probably have some more parameters like whether or not they want to build ships, or whether or not they will refuse to trade with individuals of specific cultures or races.

For an example, the dwarf race in my game can only spawn one civilization type called "Dwarves". This civilization has a culture called "Mountain Dweller", who will only build cities on or near mountains. Furthermore they will never build cities with harbors, so sea trade is more or less not used by dwarven civilizations.

It will for now probably not affect the individual entities in the game for now. But attributes such as race depended fertility, maximum age and skills and the latter will probably be added soon.
Title: Re: Programming Creative Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on December 31, 2012, 02:42:32 pm
Potatoes? In a high-fantasy medieval world? Isn't such a world usually based on the European Middle Ages?
Trust me, potatoes are the least important anachronism in an average world. I suppose you're going to complain about the cacao beans too...

EDIT: Hey, three pages!
That's looking really good. Here's an idea: Races can harvest certain kinds of resources better. Dwarves might mine +50% of various mineral resources, elves might get bonuses to raising animals or producing timber, humans might be the best farmers, etc.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 01, 2013, 02:34:03 am
Technically Potatoes wouldn't exactly be an anachronism, it isn't like they didn't exist on earth until the Europeans got their hands on them.

A good question is how this game will handle fantasy resources like magic fruit.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 01, 2013, 02:36:12 pm
Day_6
Adding some culture

Hey for this update I have been working mostly on underlying code. I imagined the world to be filled with different races/civilizations/cultures. So I worked on creating a system for this. My idea was that each race can be a specific number of difference cultures. I explained this a few posts ago. The cultures will control mostly the macro behavior of a civilization, like initial city placement, expansion behavior, and perhaps the likes and dislikes when it comes to trade goods. It will also add some decisions to the player. Would you like to play a dwarf, with easy access to very valuable goods and a long life, but have a harder time traveling? Or play a human with more flexibility and offspring, but more expendable offspring?

The first thing I needed to implement was this macro behavior. First of all, lets just add a simple system, the culture will just control city placement for now. Here is an example culture XML file:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is the cultures I use for human/medieval societies and dwarves respectively.
Civilizations are like containers for these cultures. Grouping abstract behavior together to form more advanced behavior, also civilizations will define more global behavior, like language and naming.  A civilization definition file looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is the civilizations that makes use of the cultures I defined earlier. For now I have not gone into languages, they should be mostly aesthetic anyway so they can wait for now.

Lastly races control the stats of the individuals spawned, but also what kind of civilizations this race can spawn. Here is one for humans:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Humans can spawn three different civilizations, that will have different placement, expansion and trading behavior, when it is implemented.

Either way, after implementing the city placement system to make use of these parameters I tested the system out, and whether it will scatter some capitals around properly. The results are promising, and now that the "system" is figured out, adding some more advanced and interesting behavior will be easy:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I disabled roads for now, they were randomly placed and "for show" anyway. They will be added in again when I start working on civilization behavior.
That's it for day 6, I know there were not a lot of screenshots, but this was mostly abstract work anyway.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: eerr on January 01, 2013, 02:53:58 pm
Look, what are you using to draw to the screen? I'm completely lost when it comes to computer graphics.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 01, 2013, 04:43:49 pm
Is there a reason Begta and Palwwa don't have any information listed?

How are names for the settlements chosen?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 01, 2013, 07:50:19 pm
Look, what are you using to draw to the screen? I'm completely lost when it comes to computer graphics.
Nothing. It is software rendered. But I am considering rendering the terrain and world with a shader, because I have my worries that it is a bit too slow.

Is there a reason Begta and Palwwa don't have any information listed?

How are names for the settlements chosen?
They don't have any information because I implemented a little cursor, and only wanted information near the cursor. I was getting a bit too much information at times.

Names for now are just randomly generated syllables either two or three letters long. It was mostly to implement something working and fast, but it sadly offers very little variety. So I am considering created a language system of sorts, so the different civilizations can have more distinct names. 
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Gotdamnmiracle on January 01, 2013, 11:10:11 pm
posting to the watch.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: stickadtroja on January 02, 2013, 02:31:04 am
super amazing! you make me want to start programming, its looks so fun!

didnt fully get your civ, culture and raze defenitions though; is it possible to have a civ with multiple races? it could be cool to have some diversity in the civilizations, like dwarfes and humans having a shared mountian city, with some imigranting goblins as lower class slaves...
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 02, 2013, 02:37:37 pm
They don't have any information because I implemented a little cursor, and only wanted information near the cursor. I was getting a bit too much information at times.
I guessed this, but didn't want to assume.

Quote
Names for now are just randomly generated syllables either two or three letters long. It was mostly to implement something working and fast, but it sadly offers very little variety. So I am considering created a language system of sorts, so the different civilizations can have more distinct names.
Neat. Can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Singularity-SRX on January 03, 2013, 12:59:16 am
Posting to watch as well
This looks really cool, good luck :)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Scelly9 on January 03, 2013, 01:10:57 am
Posting to watch as well
This looks really cool, good luck :)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 04, 2013, 05:31:50 pm
Day_7
Languages and initial expansions

Hey all. There has been a tragedy in m girlfriends family, it has really messed with my coding schedule. Either way, I have found some time to work on the game a little bit. This is where I left of:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wanted city names to be more depended on culture, so I decided to implement languages. At least sort of, I am not quite sure if I am happy with the system as it is right now. The system is very simple. A language has a name, and a list of syllables it can use to create words. Initially I included phrases and words too, as it could add some very interesting distinction, but I decided against it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes, the elven city of "Meh" and the human city of "Gnome" and "Run for corn ill".

So, instead of words, I split words up, and the result is a bit better. I don't know if I keep this. Right now it just makes me laugh a little every time I see some exceptionally funny combination of syllables. Not the desired effect I wanted. Either way, I wasted a train ride implementing it, and now I have to learn to live with it.
Moving on. I want cities near water to act like harbors for cultures that allow for harbors that is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Harbor cities will play an important role later when I add ships. For now the game just "knows" what cities are harbor cities, and it places a blue point so it knows where the water is.

The last thing I wanted to implement was some of the most basic AI. Each civilization will get some free expansion when they are created. The amount of free expansions is specified in the civilization definition. Either way, I wanted to test out and see how the initial world state is when the initial free expansions have been used:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I need to work some more on this. One of the cities expanded into the water, which was not exactly what I attempted.

Second attempt went a bit better. Here with some gray dots added around the cities to simulate buildings:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Okay, it looks a bit better, and the naming is not THAT ridiculous anymore. Next I will work more on city AI, and perhaps I should start working on actual gameplay soon.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 04, 2013, 05:40:18 pm
Sorry to hear about whatever happened in your girlfriend's family. I hope it gets...resolved?

Anyways, nice work.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: P(ony)SI on January 04, 2013, 06:11:15 pm
Great job so far! I'd love to play this game when it's finished :D
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: stickadtroja on January 07, 2013, 09:03:50 am
I got so inspired by this that I made some fanart:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/67237969/skiss41.jpg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/67237969/skiss41.jpg)

what is the expansions exactly? a city spawn other cities around it?


Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Fniff on January 07, 2013, 10:29:29 am
Posting to watch.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 07, 2013, 10:31:23 am
I got so inspired by this that I made some fanart:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/67237969/skiss41.jpg (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/67237969/skiss41.jpg)

what is the expansions exactly? a city spawn other cities around it?
Woah, that is awesome! Great work! Is it a goblin merchant?

Each civ start with only one city, which is placed at a more or less random suitable spot. Since it is the first city, they will get some free expansions, so they advance faster at first. For the player it will mean that the world will be a bit more interesting when they start playing! Sorry if that was not clear, my last update post was a bit of a mess since I was a bit stressed when I wrote it.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on January 08, 2013, 02:03:10 am
PTW! This looks awesome for only a few days work :D Roads are an interesting problem since they (cart and walking roads) normally have a gradient range that they must remain within (preferably flat :P ) and so can end up being much longer than the actual shortest path. What method and constraints are you using for your current road generation? Roads, I think, should also have as few hard turns as possible except at intersections and where absolutely necessary (such as switchbacks going up a mountain) so there may need to be additional constraints if you are using A*.

Good luck, looking forward to seeing how this turns out ^_^
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Gamerlord on January 08, 2013, 02:18:00 am
Posting to watch this awesome, awesome creation.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 08, 2013, 05:01:17 pm
Day_8
So many different things I could implement!

Hey fellow b12fers.
I finally got some time to work on this project. I had a million different things I wanted to implement, which kinda meant that I didn't do any of them fully. I do however have a few things I want to show off.

First of all, if this is going to be a game, it needs a main menu. So, I decided to implement menu of some sort. This did require quite a lot of additions to the codebase, but I had fun doing it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I decided to interface a lot of things, also the world creation, so here is how the world creation screen will look like:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Other than interfaces, I decided to start working on adding some sort of interaction with the game world. Entities need to live in the world. How exactly they are going to do this I am not quite sure. At the very least they need to, Sleep, Breed, Eat, Work, interact with each other and a bunch of other things. I decided to start by implementing some sort of system where entities will attempt to breed every now and then, and every so often, a pregnancy might occur. This was way more fun than it should have been. Mostly because I actually named one of entity methods:
Code: [Select]
haveSex(Entity who);
I doubt I will ever get the chance to write such a function ever again.

Either way, after a bit of work on seeding the initial world population, here are the results of the world's most boring "breeding simulator":
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

After about 9 months of in game time, and a lot of abstract ingame sex later. This a little dwarven boy was born.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have no idea if the fertility chance is to high. It will be fun to see later on when I implement other AI needs.

That is it for Day 8, not much interesting today. I will start working on giving entities more options for things to do. This means that the cities will have a bunch of "subspaces". These will represent houses, shops, industry and the so on. Entities will be able to move between these subspaces, and interact with each other and with the world. This will also lay for foundation for things the player will be able to do.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 08, 2013, 06:12:19 pm
These are pretty fancy pants names you got there Killroy... or in the Merchant Tongue: Killroyfiziqualmetrobil

I admit I got a good laugh.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 08, 2013, 06:22:15 pm
Haha, yeah. I need to work more on languages.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 08, 2013, 06:31:23 pm
Would it be possible to have names capitalized?
...Or better yet, to have some languages capitalize proper nouns and others don't?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 08, 2013, 07:24:53 pm
Would it be possible to have names capitalized?
...Or better yet, to have some languages capitalize proper nouns and others don't?

Technically they might have an entirely different system of spelling and may not even HAVE the same letters as us.

Thus we would have CHRIssss as a name. Though we don't do that because we translate it to our own writing conventions.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Araph on January 08, 2013, 07:34:49 pm
This was way more fun than it should have been. Mostly because I actually named one of entity methods:
Code: [Select]
haveSex(Entity who);I doubt I will ever get the chance to write such a function ever again.

(http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/2c/350x263px-LL-2cda10c2_slow-clap.gif)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Fniff on January 09, 2013, 12:17:33 pm
Bilgolril doesn't sound too bad. I imagine it sounds like "Bill-Go-Rill".
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 09, 2013, 04:23:15 pm
Bilgolril doesn't sound too bad. I imagine it sounds like "Bill-Go-Rill".

I will admit the crazy names are growing on me Fniffolomodindonaman
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: lemmily on January 13, 2013, 01:44:25 pm
Post to watch!

This project is totally cool. It's pretty inspiring to see what you can do in 8 days of coding :) totally would take me months and months!
I would be really interested in seeing the code for this - I don't  know java, but it'd still be interesting! So I will await the day you open it up for people (if that is still your intention of course!)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 13, 2013, 02:53:48 pm
I would be really interested in seeing the code for this - I don't  know java, but it'd still be interesting! So I will await the day you open it up for people (if that is still your intention of course!)

Yeah, I will open up my messy code for people. :)
I didn't really know Java either when I started this project (I used it a few times at work and when I was studying). I actually hated it. But I have it like that with a lot of new languages, but it is growing on me. It has one or two really nice features, beside portability.

I rewrote the rendering to use OpenGL, and shaders. It took a bit longer than expected, I never used openGL with java before, so it was a bit weird. It runs much faster now, and opens up for a lot of possibilities for visuals.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Fniff on January 13, 2013, 02:57:19 pm
Suggestion about the names, maybe make it syllables instead of letters and limit it to about three, four or five syllables per name?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 13, 2013, 03:24:50 pm
Suggestion about the names, maybe make it syllables instead of letters and limit it to about three, four or five syllables per name?

Fine, I'm updateing the langauges, so they get a few interesting more features.

EDIT:
Okay, here is the plan. Each language gets a few more parameters. Besides a list of syllables for general words, names get a list of their on syllables.
Female names, and male names, can now have a list of pre/post fixes.

For an example. One language most male endings will have harsh endings, such as 'te', 'ku', 'ge', 'go', while female names will have more 'soft' endings, such as, 'na', 'ne', 'me', 'ma', 'la'.

This should make the names a bit more interesting.

EDIT 2:
Alright, it is in.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, these names are way better, I like the guy/girl named mayor. I still need more variety in naming. But I am honestly not good at that.
Anyone interested in helping me add data to the random name generator? The job consists of adding syllables to a XML file.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Valtam on January 15, 2013, 02:44:18 pm
I've been reading this post for a while, but I think it would be better to get some notifications as updates come by, so I'm doing the proverbial "Post to watch".

Loving how the concept has evolved in such a short time, this game sure seems promising. How are trade routes being implemented? I've seen a few screenshots with dark red traces, and that they represent roads, but are they built depending on terrain features? Do they try to take the shortest possible route?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Ancre on January 15, 2013, 03:14:21 pm
I'm posting to watch as well. This is very interesting.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 15, 2013, 03:47:45 pm
I've been reading this post for a while, but I think it would be better to get some notifications as updates come by, so I'm doing the proverbial "Post to watch".

Loving how the concept has evolved in such a short time, this game sure seems promising. How are trade routes being implemented? I've seen a few screenshots with dark red traces, and that they represent roads, but are they built depending on terrain features? Do they try to take the shortest possible route?

Roads are calculated using an algoritm called A*. It finds the route with the smallest "cost". For now the cost is just based on change in height. But I plan to change it around abit, so it uses Biome information instead, with different cultures giving varying cost modifiers. Such that desert traders will often route through deserts, while other civs attempt to route around them.

BTW, big update post coming up soon. I've done quite a lot of work, but sadly very little of it has been gameplay related. Either way it paves the way for gameplay features, soon enough.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 15, 2013, 05:08:42 pm
Day_9
Creating a character, and rewriting a lot of code

Hey all.
I've been quiet about this project for a while, mostly because it took a long time to actually decide how to proceed with it. If you remember the first posts, I talked about how I rendered the world only using software. This mean that the graphics card idles, while the CPU is working it's ass off. For low resolution games, this is fine. But for this project it became more and more apparant, that most people probably would not be able to run it because of software rendering. My own beefy i7 laptop had trouble rendering the world at satisfying speeds.

So, I decided to give the LWJGL library a shot. LWJGL stands for lightweight java openGL library, and is essentially a wrapper around openGL for java. OpenGL being a high performance graphics library which uses the graphics card to render stuff, meaning it is way faster for most people. There was one problem. None of my rendering code was set up for openGL. this meant that a lot of code has to be rewritten, and a lot of new code had to be written.

The end results are very nice, so the effort was defiantly worth it.

After boxing the new rendering code into place, I decided to actually add a interface to create the world, and create a character for the world. OpenGL allowed me to scale the resolution up to something proper, instead of what I was using up to now, which was about half of what the screen was.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The biggest change in the main menu is that info box. I don't know if I will keep it or not. It is quite useful for new version info in the future.

I decided to make full use of openGL and actually render the world in the preview window of the world creation menu.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(Please don't mind the darkness, I will explain it later, it will get fixed)

I make full advantage of this in the character creation page, here the map automatically jumps to the starting city location when you toggle between them. This should give a really nice way of exploring the world, and starting locations.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now for some of the visual goodies openGL opened up for.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is the reason for why the world was so dark in the preview. The world starting date is year 0, month 0, day 0, at 00:00 am, which means it is night. OpenGL allowed me to implement a neat day/night effect. There is also a bunch of other effects thrown in for good measure. Fake ambient occlusion (The darker ocean areas). Fake waves, and wave specular reflections, and so on.

Here is the world in the evening again:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is one at midnight.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also implemented a bunch of other things. Such as entities now actively attempt to get married, there is space for improvement, but it works for now.

Last screenshot is how the game looks when rendering it at a higher resolution, I don't know what resolution I will go for. Time will tell..
(The world looks derpy because I was playing with the world generated when I made that screenshot)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That is it for today.
I'll work on making the character take its first steps next time, and I will probably add actual buildings to the cities too, the player and world entities can visit.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: stickadtroja on January 15, 2013, 06:29:18 pm
New graphics, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

i dont want to be a jerk or something, but wanted to write something other than "AWSOME WORK DUDE!!!111"... and since you using pretty fancy graphics i thought i would give some crits... but this is just some very minor stuff, the overall look is great!

anyways:

you got some real fancy water there... is the land going to match that? right now you have a little bit of contrast, from the super high res water, to the blocky and flatly coloured landmasses. would be supercool if you somehow blended between the colours and had some slight variation in to avoid flattness.
also the mountains seem to have much more organic forms then the rest of the landscape, how come? does the height map have higher resolution on specific areas or something?(i dont know crap about this stuff, just quessing randomly...) 

is possible to tint the fake ambient occlusion and shadows in some colour? i would suggest to put some blue in it, when you have a cloudless sky above, everything that lies in shadow from the sunlight takes a slight blue colour.

Also the the green is very saturated in the brightest areas, taking it towards yellow or brown just a little bit would make it seem more natural.

keep up the good work!
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on January 15, 2013, 07:15:11 pm
That last screenshot is sexy as all get out! The 'derpy' look to it seems to be mostly from it looking like a topological map's elevation lines :P Could you use a vertex shader with a high resolution height-map to smoothly interpolate between adjacent areas? Then again, you said you were playing with the world generation stuff when you made the screenshot so this might be taken care of already :D

This looks fantastic already :D What are the dimensions of your world so far?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 16, 2013, 03:09:41 am
you got some real fancy water there... is the land going to match that? right now you have a little bit of contrast, from the super high res water, to the blocky and flatly coloured landmasses. would be supercool if you somehow blended between the colours and had some slight variation in to avoid flattness.
Yes, I will be looking into it. It is a concern of mine to add some more variety on the landscape. This is also the reason I switched to more advanced graphics, It allows me to add random details and clutter on the terrain.

is possible to tint the fake ambient occlusion and shadows in some colour? i would suggest to put some blue in it, when you have a cloudless sky above, everything that lies in shadow from the sunlight takes a slight blue colour.

Also the the green is very saturated in the brightest areas, taking it towards yellow or brown just a little bit would make it seem more natural.
Yeah, you are right, the colors need to be worked on. All the land colors are specified in the biomes, so it is not hard to adjust.

This looks fantastic already :D What are the dimensions of your world so far?
The world is 1024x1024 right now. It can in theory be any dimensions, the only difference will be that it would cost much more memory. The terrain is sort of raycasted, which means it is just a flat surface where the pixels are offset based on the underlaying heightmap.

Right now my concerns are getting some gameplay up and running.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 16, 2013, 04:35:45 am
So is this game going to eventually generate fantasy resources... or rather resources that don't exist in real life?

Or are you going to be chosing the fantasy stock from magic water to Newts to Oricalcum?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 16, 2013, 04:47:09 am
So is this game going to eventually generate fantasy resources... or rather resources that don't exist in real life?

Or are you going to be chosing the fantasy stock from magic water to Newts to Oricalcum?

I think it will be kinda a low fantasy setting. Mostly just different races and cultures, but probably no magic.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Neonivek on January 16, 2013, 04:48:16 am
So is this game going to eventually generate fantasy resources... or rather resources that don't exist in real life?

Or are you going to be chosing the fantasy stock from magic water to Newts to Oricalcum?

I think it will be kinda a low fantasy setting. Mostly just different races and cultures, but probably no magic.

So no non-earthly materials like Squashberries?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on January 16, 2013, 04:59:03 am
Since you have sunlight implemented are you planning on having lights that are turned on during the night cycle such as fires and oil lamps? It probably wouldn't be super bright but it would make a nice pixel lighting effect if larger cities had a slight red-orange glow added at points along in-city roads and buildings. It's more of a stylistic choice, but would make it easier to determine at a glance during the night cycle where larger populations are located if the player doesn't want to have the city name labels visible.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 16, 2013, 05:30:30 am
So no non-earthly materials like Squashberries?
Have not really decided on that yet. Depends how much work I end up putting into this.

Since you have sunlight implemented are you planning on having lights that are turned on during the night cycle such as fires and oil lamps? It probably wouldn't be super bright but it would make a nice pixel lighting effect if larger cities had a slight red-orange glow added at points along in-city roads and buildings. It's more of a stylistic choice, but would make it easier to determine at a glance during the night cycle where larger populations are located if the player doesn't want to have the city name labels visible.
Should not be too hard to implement. Yeah, I am adding this, but as I said I am probably not doing more graphics work before some gameplay is added.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Siquo on January 16, 2013, 06:35:05 am
PTW, jealous of your productivity :)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on January 16, 2013, 06:37:08 am
Sounds good to me :D Can't wait to see an indepth gameplay demo ^_^
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Valtam on January 16, 2013, 01:16:55 pm
Quote from: Killjoy
Right now my concerns are getting some gameplay up and running.

I don't want to sound beggy, but as you implement gameplay, are you keeping it as a closed beta? or will you expect some input from your dozens of eager-to-be players?

The low-fantasy setting sounds great, like Mount & Blade without combat and with fleshed out economy, politics and character interaction.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 16, 2013, 01:36:00 pm
I don't want to sound beggy, but as you implement gameplay, are you keeping it as a closed beta? or will you expect some input from your dozens of eager-to-be players?
As soon as I deem there is some basic level of gameplay, I will release it to the masses (and let them tear it apart).
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 16, 2013, 08:06:20 pm
Always the best way to do it, IMHO. That way, you can catch the little issues that wouldn't be caught until release otherwise. (Playing your own game renders you vulnerable to bugs and such which happen when people push your system to the limit.)
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Minstrel on January 19, 2013, 10:43:00 pm
As soon as I deem there is some basic level of gameplay, I will release it to the masses (and let them tear it apart).

Can't wait.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 20, 2013, 05:46:04 am
Can't wait.
Might take some time, as I have been a little busy. And yesterday, when I technically could have worked on it I was struck with a weird fascination for studying the newest Java security exploit and building a program that can parse java class files.

Either way, here is the current state of the game. If anyone interested in an update.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I added view fog, console, and a few more buttons.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Valtam on January 20, 2013, 10:22:42 am
View fog, as it seems, is just limited by it's radius but not by topography. Are you planning to leave it this way? Or would it be a pain to change it? And so, when fog is active, stuff won't update until you get by there, right? Even buildings?

Overall sweetness.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on January 20, 2013, 12:14:57 pm
Map looks awesome.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on January 20, 2013, 12:45:40 pm
View fog, as it seems, is just limited by it's radius but not by topography. Are you planning to leave it this way? Or would it be a pain to change it? And so, when fog is active, stuff won't update until you get by there, right? Even buildings?
View fog is limited by topology. It is a little hard to see on the screenshot I posted.
The AI is doing mostly abstract things, so I can afford to update everything all the time. The AI that is implemented right now (Breed and Marriage) only attempt to execute themselves about once or twice every ingame day.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Mephansteras on January 24, 2013, 09:40:03 pm
Sounds neat. I'll have to watch this to see where it goes.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: stickadtroja on February 06, 2013, 09:57:46 am
what is happening to this?
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on February 06, 2013, 09:59:39 am
New big project at work happened.
I will have to put this on hold for now.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Sheb on February 06, 2013, 10:44:28 am
PTW
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on February 06, 2013, 10:46:40 am
New big project at work happened.
I will have to put this on hold for now.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :(
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: lemmily on February 08, 2013, 09:17:53 am
New big project at work happened.
I will have to put this on hold for now.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :(

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo++
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Skyrunner on February 08, 2013, 09:32:52 am
this->Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo++
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: lemmily on February 18, 2013, 11:57:44 am
Out of curiosity (and impatience, haha) is there any kind of idea when you may (or may not) be getting back to this project? I was really enjoying seeing all the progress and stuff you were getting done!
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: Killjoy on February 18, 2013, 02:22:58 pm
Can't say for sure.
But sometime before HL3 is released. (haha, okay I'll be serious now)

Well, as it is right now I am back to my usual schedule, work two days/week, and study the rest. Weekends I have to devote to my girlfriend. That does not leave all that much time for this project. I have had a few sparks of creativity though in my time away from the project.

I might find some time again from the 15th of March.
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: GalenEvil on February 18, 2013, 02:51:19 pm
Okay... as long as this is feature complete by my birthday I'll be happy >.>
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: lemmily on February 18, 2013, 05:01:28 pm
Can't say for sure.
But sometime before HL3 is released. (haha, okay I'll be serious now)

Well, as it is right now I am back to my usual schedule, work two days/week, and study the rest. Weekends I have to devote to my girlfriend. That does not leave all that much time for this project. I have had a few sparks of creativity though in my time away from the project.

I might find some time again from the 15th of March.

Okay that's fair enough! :) I hope you end up with a tiny bit more free time than you expect :P

If you ever end up thinking you probs won't come back to this - it'd be awesome if you could stick the code up somewhere so I can see how you've done stuff!
Title: Re: A Creative Programming Project: Merchants Quest
Post by: kytuzian on February 18, 2013, 07:46:55 pm
this->Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo++

++this->Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo;

I know I'm late.

If you ever end up thinking you probs won't come back to this - it'd be awesome if you could stick the code up somewhere so I can see how you've done stuff!

This too please