Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Title: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Beginner's Mafia XL

Breaking news today: A mine in southern Africa collapsed, trapping 9 people underground and killing countless more. Foul play is suspected, as several witnesses heard an explosion directly before the mine collapsed.

You are in the mine, along with 8 others. Two of you are saboteurs, the others are simple miners. Probably. There was rumored to be a Doctor visiting the mine in disguise for some reason, he may be among you. An inspector visited as well, also undercover. You need to get out, but the saboteurs may impede progress. You can't risk digging until they are found, so get hunting.

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Player List [7/7]:

Griffionday - Miner
RangerCado -Sneaky saboteur
borno - Doctor
Imperial Guardsman - Miner
Okami No Rei - Miner
Nerjin - Shinigami_King - Miner
swordsmith04 - Miner
Spectr Lenglon - Miner


ICs [2/2]:

Deathsword - Saboteur


Scum IC:
Urist Imiknorris Tiruin


Replacement List:

• Remuthra
• The Soldier
• Shinigami_King

Introduction

Welcome to Beginner's Mafia XL. As the title suggests, this game is for beginners. If you have no idea how to play or you have some experience but you're still not quite sure what to do, then this is the right place for you. If you sign up, you have one goal: Learn how to play the game of mafia. Since this is not an easy thing to do on your own and we wouldn't dream of forcing you to do it, you will be assisted by two 'inexperience challenged' players, or ICs. The ICs are experienced players on the board who have signed up to help you learn. You can always trust that the advice they give is genuine, however, you cannot always trust the IC, as they are players in the game and have the same likelihood of being scum as every other single player.

If this is your first time playing, keep in mind that games of forum mafia take several weeks, and can sometimes run longer than a month, and that you are expected to be able to play continuously through that time. If you can't anticipate being able to play for that long for whatever reason, then maybe the game of mafia isn't for you. But if it is, then welcome to the mafia subforum, and I hope you have a great time playing.

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Gameplay and Concept

The game of mafia has a simple concept. A large group of players known as the town plays against a smaller group of players known as the mafia. In this setup, there are nine players, with seven town and two mafia.

Before the game begins, each players is given a role and an alignment by the moderator. There are two alignments in this setup: Town and Mafia. The town outnumber the mafia, but each individual member of the town does not know the alignment of any of the other members. The mafia know the alignment of everyone on their team and they can discuss the game privately in a special mafia chat. The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.

Once everyone has a role, the game begins in the Day phase. During the Day phase, players may discuss the game and each player has a vote that they cast publicly to lynch a player. At the end of the day after some predetermined amount of time, the player with the most votes is lynched. Lynching does two things: it reveals a player's role and alignment, and it removes a player from the game. Once lynched, a player is no longer allowed to post in the thread.

Once the day ends, the game proceeds to Night. During the Night, discussion is prohibited. The mafia team picks a target to nightkill. If available, any town power roles use their actions as well. At the end of the night, the target the mafia chose to nightkill has their role and alignment revealed, and that player is removed from the game in a similar way to being lynched. Once the night ends, the game proceeds to another Day.

Both teams win by eliminating the other. However, due to the nature of the teams, they win very differently. The town win by finding and lynching the mafia, while the mafia win by avoiding being lynched and nightkilling.

Potential Roles

Vanilla Townie - A member of the town with no special abilities.
Mafioso - A member of the mafia with no special abilities.
Cop (Town) - A cop may choose to inspect a single player during the night and learn that player's alignment.
Doctor (Town) - A doctor may choose a single player to protect during the night, preventing that player from being nightkilled.
Role-blocker (Mafia) - A role-blocker may choose a single player to block, preventing that player from performing his action.
Godfather (Mafia) - A godfather appears town to Cop inspections.

The only role that receives the success of their results in this setup is the Cop. All other roles are not informed if they were successful or not.

There is no limit to the number of Vanilla Townies or Mafiosos the game may have, but all other roles have a maximum of one. There are 2 Mafia-sided roles and 7 Town sided roles in the game, each special role has a 50% chance to appear on a random player of that alignment.

Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)

Here is the list of potential role PMs. This is to discourage flavor claiming from confirming role.

Quote from: Saboteur (Mafioso)

You are a saboteur. You where hired to take down the mine, and you got trapped with all these morons. It's probably a good idea to kill them before get out.

At night you and your team may choose to kill a single target.

You are in the SCUM team. You win when the TOWN team has as many or less players than the scum team. You may talk to your ally and the scum IC in the scum chat (http://lolno).

Quote from: Sneaky Saboteur (Roleblocker)

You where leading the force to destoy the mine. Well, you pretty much succeeded, only problem is your trapped in here. You managed to grab a few sleeping darts, so people won't be moving as much as normal until morning.

During the night you may use your darts to prevent a target from doing anything until the night is over. (During the night you may select a player. If they use an action during the night, you block said action.)

Additionally, at night you and your team may choose to kill a single target.

You are in the SCUM team. You win when the TOWN team has as many or less players than the scum team. You may talk to your ally and the scum IC in the scum chat (http://lolno).

Quote from: Forger Saboteur (Godfather)

You where a forger hired to help the team get inside the mine. You only finished enough work for 1 however, and you're hanging onto those papers.

You have the papers to back up your story, so any investigation shouldn't be a problem. (If a Cop investigate you at night, the result will show your alignment as town instead of mafia.)

At night you and your team may choose to kill a single target.

You are in the SCUM team. You win when the TOWN team has as many or less players than the scum team. You may talk to your ally and the scum IC in the scum chat (http://lolno).

Quote from: Miner (Vanilla Townie)

You are a simple miner, getting paid cents for dollars worth of gold. Some say that saboteurs brought down the mine, and that pisses you off. But mostly, you just wanna get back to your family at home.

You are in the TOWN team. You win when the SCUM Team is eliminated.

Quote from: Doctor (Doctor)

You where a undercover doctor sent in by a worried group to assess the health conditions of the mine. Now, your skills are more valuable than ever, since people began dying in the night.

At night you may choose a target and heal them, preventing them from being killed. (Each night, you may select a player. If they are targeted by the scum team for the nightkill, you prevent that player’s death.)

You are in the TOWN team. You win when the SCUM Team is eliminated.

Quote from: Investigator (Cop)

You are an undercover cop assigned to protect this mine from the saboteurs. While you've obviously failed at that, its probably in your best interests at the moment to continue using your skills to finish off the saboteurs.

During the night you may attempt to find out a target’s true loyalties. (Each night you may inspect a player and learn their alignment.)

You are in the TOWN team. You win when the SCUM Team is eliminated.

Notes about the ICs

The ICs are here solely to teach new players how to play, but remember, they are also players in the game. This means they have the same chance to be scum as any other player and it is entirely possible for one IC or even both ICs to be scum. Regardless of their alignment, they are obligated to provide you with genuine advice, so that even if you don't trust the IC, you can trust the advice they give. Some ICs will use a special 'IC voice' to alert players that they are delivering honest, unfiltered advice, while some don't.

The ICs have the special privilege of being able to talk while dead. This is so that they can continue to give advice even if they are killed during the course of the game.

---

---

Rules

• Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.
  • Scelly9,
  • Vote Scelly9,
  • Forsooth, Scelly9 is scum!,
  • Vote Scelly9,
  Are all acceptable ways to cast a vote if the target is clear enough.
  • If you want to remove your vote, you may put unvote in red text. You must explicitly state this.  It is possible to put the name of the player you were voting afterwards, but it is not recommended as it can lead to confusion.
• Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.
• PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.
  
  • Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related queries.
• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a train-wreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.
• Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.
  • Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
  • If you stop playing my game altogether without notifying me, I will come looking for you.
  • Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
• Day/Night Length - Days will last 72 hours, excluding weekends. Nights will last 24 hours, or until all night actions are received. Neither of these include weekends.
• Extensions/Shortens - A player may vote for an extension to increase the length of the day. It requires >33% of the current number of players to request an extension for an extension to be granted. A player may also vote for a shorten. It requires >50% of the current number of players for a shorten to be granted. Extensions increase day length by 48 hours, while shortens will immediately end the day as soon as possible. There is no limit to the number of extensions that may be granted with one exception. If an extension goes through and players do not make use of it there will be no more extensions on that day. If you request an extension USE IT!
  • Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten.
  • Extensions/shortens can be opposed by declaring opposition (Oppose Shorten/Extend, I oppose this notion!, My Oppose goes to this), and they count against the total number of votes for an extension/shorten. Extensions count as opposition to shortens and vice versa.
• External Participation - While the game is ongoing, if you are not a player, an IC, or a mod, refrain from posting in the thread.
  • Play to win! There is no hopeless situation, so don't ever give up. And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.
  
  

  ---

  
  Resources and Guides
  
  Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
  The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
  An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)
  The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)
  
  
  Spoiler: On D1 No-lynches (click to show/hide)

  Quote from: Bookthras

  I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.
  
  

  Quote from: Bookthras on May 08, 2012, 09:31:27 pm

  Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.
  
  A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.
  
  

  Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 07:22:06 pm

  Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),

  Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104547.msg3146622#msg3146622)) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.
  
  So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.
  
  Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.
  
  
  [spoiler=Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience]
  A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).
  Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.
  
  Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:
  
  Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"
  
  Dak: Meh.  Why?
  
  Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"
  
  Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."
  
  Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"
  
  Dak: "He looked scummy.."
  
  Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"
  
  Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."
  
  Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"
  
  Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.
  
  If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:
  
  Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (0/7, 0/3)
Post by: Griffionday on April 02, 2013, 10:29:31 pm

IN!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (1/7, 0/3)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 02, 2013, 10:31:59 pm

Dibs on scum IC.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (0/7, 0/3)
Post by: RangerCado on April 02, 2013, 10:34:16 pm

Probably not my best idea, but i should IN this so i can say i played a BM game. so my first 3 games will be in order, a b. mod from Meph, a BYOR from webadict, and a beginners mafia from you... i have way too much free time.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (2/7, 1/3)
Post by: Nerjin on April 02, 2013, 10:39:16 pm

I'll IC if no one else is willing to. But ONLY if neccesary. Other than that I plan to just watch.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (0/7, 0/3)
Post by: Tiruin on April 02, 2013, 10:42:07 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 02, 2013, 10:34:16 pm

Probably not my best idea, but i should IN this so i can say i played a BM game. so my first 3 games will be in order, a b. mod from Meph, a BYOR from webadict, and a beginners mafia from you... i have way too much free time.

Pff, not my best idea :P

Yes you should - still should know!

Also, begin hobby. Find joy in art or music or literature or sports. Much free time!

---

---

Darnit Scelly, most of the board was looking forward to a fastfood Mafia XD

IC IN.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (2/7, 2/3)
Post by: RangerCado on April 02, 2013, 10:48:51 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 02, 2013, 10:42:07 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 02, 2013, 10:34:16 pm

Probably not my best idea, but i should IN this so i can say i played a BM game. so my first 3 games will be in order, a b. mod from Meph, a BYOR from webadict, and a beginners mafia from you... i have way too much free time.

Pff, not my best idea :P

Yes you should - still should know!

Also, begin hobby. Find joy in art or music or literature or sports. Much free time!

---

---

Darnit Scelly, most of the board was looking forward to a fastfood Mafia XD

IC IN.

    when i'm not online, i'm usually reading a book... this includes in school... i get in trouble a lot for that. My marks are still good though! B's and A's most of the time.                           EDIT: I should probably say that i think we're going to get along quite well tiruin. you've treated me as a friend from my first post and i respect you for that.  :)  ciao!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (2/7, 2/3)
Post by: borno on April 02, 2013, 10:58:18 pm

I would like to join the Miner's Mafia.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: TheWetSheep on April 03, 2013, 09:38:15 am

Hmmm, I don't know if I can do two games at once. I think I'll leave this one for now. Maybe I'll catch the next one.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: Teneb on April 03, 2013, 09:50:39 am

Hey, Scelly, change this part

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

• Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.
  • Deathsword,
  • Vote Deathsword,
  • Forsooth, Deathsword is scum!,
  • Vote Scumsword,

So it's your name instead.

That said, I'll be a playing IC if you'll have me

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Leafsnail on April 03, 2013, 11:19:47 am

I think the setup should be changed.  It has been shown to strongly favour the mafia (who win 5 times more often than townies under the setup).

I'd suggest guaranteeing at least one town PR and limiting the scum to one PR.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 01:50:45 pm

Quote from: Leafsnail on April 03, 2013, 11:19:47 am

I think the setup should be changed.  It has been shown to strongly favour the mafia (who win 5 times more often than townies under the setup).

I'd suggest guaranteeing at least one town PR and limiting the scum to one PR.

Well that's a HUGE change in the dynamic but... Maybe guaranteeing a PR is a bit much. I dunno. It just seems like we should consider some alternatives first. Granted I do agree that the mafia shouldn't win that often.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 03, 2013, 02:28:10 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 01:50:45 pm

Quote from: Leafsnail on April 03, 2013, 11:19:47 am

I think the setup should be changed.  It has been shown to strongly favour the mafia (who win 5 times more often than townies under the setup).

I'd suggest guaranteeing at least one town PR and limiting the scum to one PR.

Well that's a HUGE change in the dynamic but... Maybe guaranteeing a PR is a bit much. I dunno. It just seems like we should consider some alternatives first. Granted I do agree that the mafia shouldn't win that often.

I think that it's less the game's fault, and more flailing newbies everywhere. I bet if this was played with experienced players, the game would be much more even.

Although this is a newby game, so that's a bit irrelevant.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Jim Groovester on April 03, 2013, 03:04:43 pm

If you want to implement those changes, I'd say you can, but if not, don't worry about it.

I'm going to host a BM at some point to give some of those proposed changes a try.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: The Soldier on April 03, 2013, 03:09:24 pm

I'll replace in, hopefully the game won't need as many replacements as last time.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 03, 2013, 03:11:46 pm

Sounds good. I'll be running it normally, however.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: lordnincompoop on April 03, 2013, 03:47:35 pm

Are the IC positions filled? I'll just watch, then.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Tiruin on April 03, 2013, 04:09:53 pm

IC Replacement, then. :P

Because I see a lot of everyone else wanting to get that spot.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7)
Post by: Remuthra on April 03, 2013, 04:14:23 pm

PTW.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 05:11:08 pm

Wow the IC spots filled up fast.

That's just as good, anyway. I'm about to be in four games very soon.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 07:58:03 pm

In

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: RangerCado on April 03, 2013, 07:59:17 pm

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 07:58:03 pm

In

...lol, just saw everyone talking about you in Mephs IG. good luck!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 08:04:26 pm

I got reccomended into this from some guy in roguelike

Im new, so i had NO IDEA what bastard mod was

i looked it up, and i feel like an idiot.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (3/7, 2/3)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 08:06:28 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 03, 2013, 07:59:17 pm

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 07:58:03 pm

In

...lol, just saw everyone talking about you in Mephs IG. good luck!

Luck has nothing to do with it, of course.

I wish you both good fun! And learning, of course. Good learning.

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 08:04:26 pm

I got reccomended into this from some guy in roguelike

Im new, so i had NO IDEA what bastard mod was

i looked it up, and i feel like an idiot.

Don't feel too bad. You're going to feel like a much bigger one at some point later on, I'm sure. This game makes fools of us all at one point or another.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 08:08:29 pm

Some more than others. I, personally, have always preformed flawlessly.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Remuthra on April 03, 2013, 08:09:52 pm

Go ahead and put me on the replacement list as well.

After the inevitable new cast of characters I can get the other half of the game experience.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 09:53:46 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 08:08:29 pm

Some more than others. I, personally, have always preformed flawlessly.

Riposte (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120520.msg3971934#msg3971934).

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 09:55:22 pm

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 09:53:46 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 08:08:29 pm

Some more than others. I, personally, have always preformed flawlessly.

Riposte (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120520.msg3971934#msg3971934).

I didn't want to play anymore but I refused to drop out of my first real game. It was a political manuever.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 10:04:57 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 09:55:22 pm

I didn't want to play anymore but I refused to drop out of my first real game. It was a political manuever.

Sadly, that exact theory was actually proposed.

Quote from: notquitethere on January 23, 2013, 01:13:25 pm

They either doxxed a townie or they doxxed themself to be out of the game.

But we all know the truth. My triple-bluff actually paid off.

Quote from: notquitethere on January 23, 2013, 01:13:25 pm

Maybe Nerjin's read on Ford is that Ford likes to doublebluff, and when they saw Ford claim to be Mason, Nerjin took that to be a doublebluff and sent in the kill request.

Yum.

Also I'm a pedantic bastard.

...whatever "pedantic" means...

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: RangerCado on April 03, 2013, 10:21:14 pm

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 03, 2013, 08:04:26 pm

I got reccomended into this from some guy in roguelike

Im new, so i had NO IDEA what bastard mod was

i looked it up, and i feel like an idiot.

its okay man, i feel a little stupid for not seeing that there are 2 ways to message someone. hope you have fun

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (2/7, 1/3)
Post by: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 10:23:39 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 02, 2013, 10:39:16 pm

I'll IC if no one else is willing to. But ONLY if neccesary. Other than that I plan to just watch.

IC in unless LordNin still want the IC in for themselves.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: lordnincompoop on April 04, 2013, 01:51:14 am

...Thanks, Tiruin. Sure, I'll take it.

Just as a warning before the game starts: I don't have a lot of time to read or play. That's not a thing that will change.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 06, 2013, 02:15:08 pm

3 More. If you've ever wanted to get into mafia, now's your chance! Let's get this started by Monday!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 06, 2013, 06:22:52 pm

Conditional IN, as straight player or IC.  Replacement if we have enough newbies show up who want to play.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (4/7, 2/3)
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on April 06, 2013, 07:04:02 pm

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 03, 2013, 10:04:57 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 03, 2013, 09:55:22 pm

I didn't want to play anymore but I refused to drop out of my first real game. It was a political manuever.

Sadly, that exact theory was actually proposed.

Quote from: notquitethere on January 23, 2013, 01:13:25 pm

They either doxxed a townie or they doxxed themself to be out of the game.

That's basically why I doxxed too - I was getting busy but didn't want to just up and quit, so I left it up to fate.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (5/7)
Post by: Tiruin on April 06, 2013, 11:05:25 pm

Which always points to Hapah :P

Knew you'd be a good magnet, m'good man.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (5/7)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 08, 2013, 09:11:04 pm

I'll play. Mafia looks interesting.
Also, fair warning: I have a bad habit of lurking and being over-cautious of what I say. I'll try not to fall back into it while playing this game, but I'm not sure how successful I'll be. Don't let me get away with lurking!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (5/7)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 08, 2013, 09:15:02 pm

Sweet. Just one more and we can get this started!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (6/7)
Post by: RangerCado on April 08, 2013, 09:22:11 pm

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 08, 2013, 09:15:02 pm

Sweet. Just one more and we can get this started!

If no one joins, we could start with 9 players. 2 garunteed days with a third if mafia survive 2 and a 4th if town lynch a mafia after that.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (6/7)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 08, 2013, 09:24:42 pm

We only have 8 though.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (6/7)
Post by: RangerCado on April 08, 2013, 09:34:58 pm

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 08, 2013, 09:24:42 pm

We only have 8 though.

oh... shutting up now

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (6/7)
Post by: Spectr on April 11, 2013, 09:29:26 am

This'll be my first forum Mafia but i am willing to join IN

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 11, 2013, 09:37:53 am

Awesome. I don't have time to start this right now, but I will sometime in the next 12 hours.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (6/7)
Post by: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 10:44:25 am

Quote from: Spectr on April 11, 2013, 09:29:26 am

This'll be my first forum Mafia but i am willing to join IN

Someone's doing it right!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 11, 2013, 05:41:13 pm

Griff: ...this better not be me your hinting at

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 06:19:14 pm

You and I both actually.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 11, 2013, 06:22:27 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 11, 2013, 05:41:13 pm

Griff: ...this better not be me your hinting at

Griff is probably talking about himself (and the other newbies, yourself included) that didn't BM.

NEVER take anything said in these threads personally.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on April 11, 2013, 08:13:25 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 11, 2013, 06:22:27 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 11, 2013, 05:41:13 pm

Griff: ...this better not be me your hinting at

Griff is probably talking about himself (and the other newbies, yourself included) that didn't BM.

NEVER take anything said in these threads personally.

This is good advice :P

You not joining a BM at first isn't a bad thing, RC, nor is that a bad thing to others who have had the wish to do so. (Do take these things personally, but not in a way that would completely or subtly influence your life...) With the personal part being how your mindset is oriented in forum Mafia. It is different from RL mafia...but I've never played any of Mafia in real life anyway XD

God Speed newbies!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 11, 2013, 10:44:35 pm

Thank you!
I just decided to join on a whim.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 11, 2013, 11:35:28 pm

So. Here you are. A thousand feet underground, trapped with 9 people. 2 of whom are out to kill you. "Well" One of you speaks out suddenly "Let's get on with it. Who do we think are the killers. That's the only way we're getting out of this mess." Nine heads nod. The one who spoke scratches a rough board onto a wall. "We vote. Losers get killed and we search their stuff. I want to leave."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day will end at 16/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. There are 72:00 hours left.

Messages have been sent and the game is on! Good luck.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 11, 2013, 11:52:39 pm

Welcome to Mafia newbs. I too am one of you and I shall use an IC voice when I am offering advice that pertains to mechanics or scumhunting tips. [[This is IC voice. Everything in these brackets is true. Other than that I AM playing the game with you.]] I'm not one for long speeches. [[Remember it's easier for people to understand you if you make brief posts with verification rather than a novel of ramblings.]]

The most important thing is this: Have fun and learn. If you lose use that as a learning experience.

The first thing I encourage you to do is to ask questions. Secondly you may remember a set of links in the OP [original post] that gave a list of hints, tips, tricks, and assorted information. Read that. Already read it? Read it again. Trust me, that section of the OP will help you quite a bit. Usually I would open my games by asking everyone a ton of questions but it is late. I shall offer more advice in the future.

[[Have fun]]

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

Well, well, two games at once now.

Deathsword: What do you think of the thought that's been tossed around about switching the Cop with a Jailer?  How do you think that this would change the game?

---

Spectr: I've not played with you before! (that's actually true about a lot of people but w/e)  Awesome!  So what do you think the most epic scum game played here was?

---

Okami No Rei: What do you think is the most informative part of the game for identifying scum?  What do you try to do to get this to happen?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 12, 2013, 01:22:25 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

Okami No Rei: What do you think is the most informative part of the game for identifying scum?

Theories.  Looking at the theories that players present can give a good deal of insight into how they're thinking about the game.  I especially like to look for the bits of information that they take for granted in building those theories, because it's a clear indicator if they're assuming something that Scum would know but Town shouldn't.  This is also a subtle way to find power-roles and confirm Town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82626.msg2304732#msg2304732).

Quote from: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

What do you try to do to get this to happen?

Get people hypothesizing.  This makes it a late-stage RVS tactic, since everyone needs content to process before theories start forming.

swordsmith04 - Swords will do you little good here.  Much better to be a smith of Words.  Tell me, will you craft your words with the same cunning you reserve for your blades?  Can we expect from you many cutting remarks, piercing witticisms, and eloquent ripostes?  Or, perhaps you are indeed a smith of swords, and some among us will feel the bite of your steel in the night.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 02:47:48 am

Okami:
Do you have a preferred shortening or is Okami fine?

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 12, 2013, 01:22:25 am

Theories.  Looking at the theories that players present can give a good deal of insight into how they're thinking about the game.  I especially like to look for the bits of information that they take for granted in building those theories, because it's a clear indicator if they're assuming something that Scum would know but Town shouldn't.  This is also a subtle way to find power-roles and confirm Town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82626.msg2304732#msg2304732).

It could just be that it's very late over here, but how does the linked post demonstrate that Max White is town?  I probably had to be there, but I'm not seeing what MW's assumption was that he wouldn't have were he scum.  Could you clarify a bit further?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 05:13:41 am

[[Please try to keep your questions relevant to the game. Asking "What's your favorite level in Super Mario Brothers?" is much less helpful [see: Not at all] than asking something such as "In situation X how would you react and why?"]]

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Griffionday:
It is N1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two players you are debating over roleblocking, a lurking player or an active player. Who do you chose to roleblock?
RangerCado:
It is N1, and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players you are debating over killing, a lurking player who has a few cases against you or an active player who has not gotten a read off of you yet. Who do you choose to kill?
Imperial Guardsman:
It is N1, and you are the cop. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player and an active yet scummy player. Who do you choose to inspect?
swordsmith04:
It is N1, and you are the doctor. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player but is solid when he posts, or a more active player from whom you have a more null-tell on. Who do you chose to inspect?
Spectr:
It is D1, and you are a vanilla townie. There are two players you are debating over putting the tie-breaking vote on, a lurking player and an active yet scummy player. Who do you choose to lynch?
Okami No Rei:
It is D1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two play styles you are debating over using, a slightly more lurky playstyle to avoid attention, or a more active play style in which you are more likely to slip up. Which one do you choose?
Nerjin:
It is LyLo, and you are a vanilla townie. There are two players who are both suspicious of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?
Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

---

Aaaaaaand I think that's everyone.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 08:09:31 am

Borno: i would probably kill the one with no cases on me if they had few people after them. Killing the one with cases, although lurking, can just seem suspicious. Although, if no body is taking their supicions with a grain of salt, then i would consider that person more. How about you in the same situation?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 12, 2013, 08:29:20 am

Unvote
RangerCado:
Is that all you have for RVS? A single question which was someone else's turned around? Seems like lazy mafia to me. Anyway, I would probably kill the lurker in this situation, as trying to discern who is mafia through the NKs in complete WIFOM and is discouraged by the ICs.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 08:31:47 am

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Spectr:
It is D1, and you are a vanilla townie. There are two players you are debating over putting the tie-breaking vote on, a lurking player and an active yet scummy player. Who do you choose to lynch?

I would probably vote the scummy player as he would probably have more evidence against him. Is lurking evidence against someone?

Quote from: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

Spectr: I've not played with you before! (that's actually true about a lot of people but w/e)  Awesome!  So what do you think the most epic scum game played here was?

I look forward to playing with you! Honestly,  I haven't really kept track of any games! I have always been at least a little interested though. What are some of you favourites, if you don't mind my asking.

Imperial Guardian when trying to find scum what are the telltale signs you look for?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

{Hello Newbies, this will be my IC voice. I will never lie to you while using it, even if it puts me at a disadvantage in-game. We are currently in Random Vote Stage, here we ask questions to others (and answer the questions asked to us) and throw around random votes, as you can clearly see in the posts above. Remember that you can use these questions to get better reads on other players, so don't ask about meaningless things. The point of RVS is to get the game going, otherwise there would be nothing to talk about. Keep in mind you don't have to ask a question to everyone, but sitting around doing absolutely nothing is bad and will get you killed.}

Spectr, have you ever played any other kind of mafia before (real-life, for example)?

Ranger, are you going to ask real question or just turn other's around?

Nerjin, are you scum?

Imperial Guardsman, how do you plan to hunt scum?

Griff

Quote from: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

Deathsword: What do you think of the thought that's been tossed around about switching the Cop with a Jailer?  How do you think that this would change the game?

Actually, it's the doctor that has been suggested to be swapped with the cop. This adds a certain danger to roleclaiming cop, since if the jailor protects you, you won't be able to investigate anyone.

Borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 11:13:23 am

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

{Hello Newbies, this will be my IC voice. I will never lie to you while using it, even if it puts me at a disadvantage in-game. We are currently in Random Vote Stage, here we ask questions to others (and answer the questions asked to us) and throw around random votes, as you can clearly see in the posts above. Remember that you can use these questions to get better reads on other players, so don't ask about meaningless things. The point of RVS is to get the game going, otherwise there would be nothing to talk about. Keep in mind you don't have to ask a question to everyone, but sitting around doing absolutely nothing is bad and will get you killed.}

Spectr, have you ever played any other kind of mafia before (real-life, for example)?

Yeah, i have played mafia in real-life, but not online.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 11:13:59 am

Borno + Deathsword: I was rushing as i had to leave for school. I'm now posting in school.

---

Nerjin: The mafia are down one and you have 3 suspects. One has been lerking a bit, one has appeared somewhat scummy but not by much, and one has had 2 people suspicious of him die. Who would you lynch and why?

Swordsmith: Your the last mafia and you have 2 targets to lynch. you have reason to believe one is the doctor. The first has played conservatively but has made several good points, the other has been aggresive most game but tends to get off track. Who do you think is the doctor and should they be lynched or NKed?

DeathSword: The Cop was NKed and your at LyLo. You believe there is a godfather present among the remaining two others. The cop was supicious of both but targeted one specifically. Who do you lynch and why? (the targeted or the suspected)

---

Will post more later, need to get some S.S. done.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2013, 11:49:35 am

Quote from: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 11:13:59 am

DeathSword: The Cop was NKed and your at LyLo. You believe there is a godfather present among the remaining two others. The cop was supicious of both but targeted one specifically. Who do you lynch and why? (the targeted or the suspected)

---

Will post more later, need to get some S.S. done.

If there is a godfather, then the cop's results are not reliable. Thus one should focus on analyzing the posts of other players than speculating on wheter or not the cop's results were accurate, ESPECIALLY on lylo.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

It is N1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two players you are debating over roleblocking, a lurking player or an active player. Who do you chose to roleblock?

It depends on if the lurking player seemed like he was still around or not.  If so there is a chance his ability went to his head and so might be a power role, otherwise role-blocking the active player makes more sense as they would likely have the better read on who is scum and so be able to target better.

You are a cowardly doctor (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12368); when do you protect yourself rather than others?

---

Spectr:
Well, Solifuge was BRILLIANT here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88720.0), he probably would have completely fooled everyone if quoting pm's was not allowed. I love how well he managed to fabricate his story, and keep it up for DAYS.  (Yes, I admire a good liar, it's a difficult skill).  Also these (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0) are good reading.

What do you see as the primary differences between RL mafia and online mafia?

---

Deathsword:
Right, my bad.

Wasn't replacing the Doctor with a Jailer suggested as a way to level the playing field and make the game more difficult for scum?  How does this work in your opinion?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 12, 2013, 12:55:32 pm

For your convenience:

Quote

Cowardly Doctor (town; rare; 4+ players): You can protect other players from kills. Each protection stops one kill, and lasts for one night. You can also hide once, making you immune to all actions that night. Actions: protect hide (1 use)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:58:50 pm

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 12, 2013, 12:55:32 pm

For your convenience:

Quote

Cowardly Doctor (town; rare; 4+ players): You can protect other players from kills. Each protection stops one kill, and lasts for one night. You can also hide once, making you immune to all actions that night. Actions: protect hide (1 use)

I assumed the link would interest people.  I really don't want a "How would you play all possible permutations of the basic roles for all possible parties" question again.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 01:50:24 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

Spectr:
Well, Solifuge was BRILLIANT here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88720.0), he probably would have completely fooled everyone if quoting pm's was not allowed. I love how well he managed to fabricate his story, and keep it up for DAYS.  (Yes, I admire a good liar, it's a difficult skill).  Also here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?)

I think that online mafia takes place over a longer time frame (obviously ) and i think it is more involved than rl mafia

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 03:14:26 pm

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 01:50:24 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

Spectr:
Well, Solifuge was BRILLIANT here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88720.0), he probably would have completely fooled everyone if quoting pm's was not allowed. I love how well he managed to fabricate his story, and keep it up for DAYS.  (Yes, I admire a good liar, it's a difficult skill).  Also here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?)

I think that online mafia takes place over a longer time frame (obviously ) and i think it is more involved than rl mafia

What's up with the changes to the quoted material?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 12, 2013, 01:22:25 am

swordsmith04 - Swords will do you little good here.  Much better to be a smith of Words.  Tell me, will you craft your words with the same cunning you reserve for your blades?  Can we expect from you many cutting remarks, piercing witticisms, and eloquent ripostes?  Or, perhaps you are indeed a smith of swords, and some among us will feel the bite of your steel in the night.

Heh. I'm not exactly Legendary at either, but I'm hoping I won't sound like a complete idiot. Killing people doesn't help me, even if I could make a sword capable of cutting something. More people there are to dig, the better, obviously.

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

swordsmith04:
It is N1, and you are the doctor. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player but is solid when he posts, or a more active player from whom you have a more null-tell on. Who do you chose to inspect?

It's the cop who inspects, not the doctor, isn't it? I'll answer both, I guess.
Hmm. I suppose I'd save the null, as the scum is probably not going to target a lurker on day one. The active player is either scum or town, and the scum know which the null is. I'm either protecting an active town-member or wasting my N1 save, which is the least important. I've got a good chance of the null being town, anyway.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 11:13:59 am

Swordsmith: Your the last mafia and you have 2 targets to lynch. you have reason to believe one is the doctor. The first has played conservatively but has made several good points, the other has been aggresive most game but tends to get off track. Who do you think is the doctor and should they be lynched or NKed?

The aggressive one would be the easier to lynch, as they don't actually focus on a target. The conservative would then be NKed. Which one was the doctor is irrelevant.

Nerjin, why haven't you asked any questions yet? Are you waiting for something?

Okami No Rei, same to you. Why haven't you questioned anyone else yet? (Besides me, I mean.)

DeathSword, do you prefer to be town or mafia? How do you play as the team you least prefer?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 06:32:27 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 03:14:26 pm

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 01:50:24 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

Spectr:
Well, Solifuge was BRILLIANT here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88720.0), he probably would have completely fooled everyone if quoting pm's was not allowed. I love how well he managed to fabricate his story, and keep it up for DAYS.  (Yes, I admire a good liar, it's a difficult skill).  Also here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?)

I think that online mafia takes place over a longer time frame (obviously ) and i think it is more involved than rl mafia

What's up with the changes to the quoted material?

I typed it up on my phone and it got mangled, sorry about that.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 08:01:43 pm

Spectr

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 06:32:27 pm

I typed it up on my phone and it got mangled, sorry about that.

Ah no worries.

---

Swordsmith

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Hmm. I suppose I'd save the null, as the scum is probably not going to target a lurker on day one. The active player is either scum or town, and the scum know which the null is. I'm either protecting an active town-member or wasting my N1 save, which is the least important. I've got a good chance of the null being town, anyway.

Why is the N1 save the least important?

What do you think the difference in play between a Godfather and a regular Mafiasio is?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 12, 2013, 08:06:43 pm

Captain Ford:

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 12, 2013, 12:55:32 pm

For your convenience:

Quote

Cowardly Doctor (town; rare; 4+ players): You can protect other players from kills. Each protection stops one kill, and lasts for one night. You can also hide once, making you immune to all actions that night. Actions: protect hide (1 use)

Wait, so I went searching through the roles for ages just so I could be supplied it in a few seconds on the forums?!  >:(
swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

swordsmith04:
It is N1, and you are the doctor. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player but is solid when he posts, or a more active player from whom you have a more null-tell on. Who do you chose to inspect?

It's the cop who inspects, not the doctor, isn't it? I'll answer both, I guess.
Hmm. I suppose I'd save the null, as the scum is probably not going to target a lurker on day one. The active player is either scum or town, and the scum know which the null is. I'm either protecting an active town-member or wasting my N1 save, which is the least important. I've got a good chance of the null being town, anyway.

Whoops, I meant the cop that protects. I knew that I managed to fluff something up in all those questions.
RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 11:13:59 am

Borno + Deathsword: I was rushing as i had to leave for school. I'm now posting in school.

Fair enough. Unvote.
Griffionday:

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

It is N1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two players you are debating over roleblocking, a lurking player or an active player. Who do you chose to roleblock?

It depends on if the lurking player seemed like he was still around or not.  If so there is a chance his ability went to his head and so might be a power role, otherwise role-blocking the active player makes more sense as they would likely have the better read on who is scum and so be able to target better.

You are a cowardly doctor (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12368); when do you protect yourself rather than others?

I would protect myself right after I'd claimed. I think I would claim on MyLo or LyLo to give the town another day to catch scum/the cop another day to investigate, hoping that the mafia would target me.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

I realize I promised questions… Well I feel it’s more important to answer ones directed at you first so here goes:

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Nerjin:
It is LyLo, and you are a vanilla townie. There are two players who are both suspicious of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Difficult to say. It really depends on how well they played. If they played poorly I'd search their posts and try to convince the other that #2 was more scummy than I. If they had played well... I'd simply try the above while kicking myself for lurking. I sincerely try not to do that too often.

---

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Nerjin, are you scum?

No, I am a miner.

---

Quote from: RangerCado on April 12, 2013, 11:13:59 am

Nerjin: The mafia are down one and you have 3 suspects. One has been lurking a bit, one has appeared somewhat scummy but not by much, and one has had 2 people suspicious of him die. Who would you lynch and why?

First of all I fixed the spelling of Lurking. Just so you all don't think I tampered with the quote [[Tampering with quotes to make another person look bad = Very bad idea. I personally would demand an insta-lynch of someone who does that.]] But onto the question itself:

In that instance I would lynch the one who appears scummy. Then the one who has been lurking. Then the one who had the "suspicious people" die. As to why:

1. Scummy is scummy no matter what quantity it is. Unless I have a VERY good reason I will almost always be voting the person who has acted most scummy.

2. I don't like lurkers. I'm guilty of it from time to time but they don't add anything to the game and actually make it harder to do anything. So if I have no other choice I will vote lurkers.

3. Having suspicious people die as a reason for a lynch is just relying on WIFOM. "People who suspected him died." is easily countered with "What if scum killed them to make X look scummy?" So yeah. 3 would be unlikely to get my vote for just that.

---

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Nerjin, why haven't you asked any questions yet? Are you waiting for something?

I've been busy recently. Sorry. Unfortunately this weekend doesn't look like it'll be filled with my witty-ness-ess-ness. But hopefully this post will fill you with questions.

---

Now onto my own questions:

Griffionday: What is the most important town power role in this set up and why?

RangerCado: What is the most scummy thing a person can do and why?

borno: I’ve seen you around before. Do you feel previous experience has prepared you for future mafia games? The previous is yes/no so have another question: What is the single most important piece of information you’ve learned in mafia so far and why?

Imperial Guardsman: Your skills seem a little high up for a mining job… If you had a power role for either mafia or town which role would you want the most? Why?

Okami No Rei: I’ve also seen you around… Who do you feel is the biggest threat in this game if they were a scum? Who would be the biggest boon as town? This excludes me or Deathsword. I’m curious as to your reads on the other players so far.

swordsmith04: You’re scum and one player seems uncomfortably close to figuring you out. However he has also been dropping a few scum-tells himself. How do you react?

Spectr: You’re scum and have been playing very well. Your partner… not so much. He’s dropping tells left and right. How do you react?

Nerjin: I am me… I have no questions.

Deathsword: You’re an IC too. Nifty. From how the game has been played what are you feelings on the new players? Your fellow IC? Yourself?

Anyone who wants to answer a hypothetical question: This is a simple thing I’m curious about. I won’t expect an answer though as it’s not too relevant. You can stop reading now: Day 4 and no night kills have occurred. How do you react? All players are fairly active.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 09:57:19 pm

Nerjin

Woo I like these questions.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Griffionday: What is the most important town power role in this set up and why?

Doctor, they're useful until they're killed.  While cop is only useful until he finds his target.
The doctor is also less likely to clear the godfather of suspicion (the cop can move someone from 2/9 to 1/8, but might accidentally clear the GF)

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Anyone who wants to answer a hypothetical question: This is a simple thing I’m curious about. I won’t expect an answer though as it’s not too relevant. You can stop reading now: Day 4 and no night kills have occurred. How do you react? All players are fairly active.

Who is alive in the scenerio you were thinking of? 
Let's assume lynches have been occurring each day.
If both scum and the cop are alive.  The game is technically in mylo, and so calling on the cop to role claim seems to make sense, as you might be able to clear a few people.  (Plus this might give you a confirmed townie assuming there is no counter claim.)

If the scum are alive but the cop is dead, a no-lynch should possibly be considered. 

If one scum is dead, play as normal; comment on the prowess of the doctor.

However if the doc has been dead for a while, lynching the players who are the most overconfident might be in order, as the scum are just being a twit.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 08:01:43 pm

Swordsmith

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

snip

Why is the N1 save the least important?

What do you think the difference in play between a Godfather and a regular Mafiasio is?

N1 save is the least important in my mind because there are more members on N1 than there are on subsequent nights. Whether the save is made N1 or not, the balance of town to scum is still largely in favor of town, but the longer the game goes the less town members there are, and the more pressure there is to get the save right. It's not that the N1 save isn't important, it's just that the later night saves are more important.

Unless you're trying to trick the cop, the playstyle between a godfather and vanilla mafioso would be largely the same, I think. The godfather has a bit more room for being bold because a cop inspect will show them as town, but we know that there might be a godfather, so the cop's inspect isn't enough proof to confirm town. In the end, being the godfather should be a perk rather than a deciding factor in your playstyle.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

swordsmith04: You’re scum and one player seems uncomfortably close to figuring you out. However he has also been dropping a few scum-tells himself. How do you react?

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 13, 2013, 12:19:02 am

Nerjin:

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

borno: I’ve seen you around before. Do you feel previous experience has prepared you for future mafia games? The previous is yes/no so have another question: What is the single most important piece of information you’ve learned in mafia so far and why?

Kind of. While I am definitely better than I was, say, a few months ago, I still don't feel all too confident in my abilities. I think that the most important thing I've learnt is to just keep my cool. If I stay calm then I'm able to contribute to scum-hunting better and people will generally have a more townish-read from me whereas if I get angry (see: last BM I was in) I'm very likely to mess up my own game and people will think that I am scummy.
swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

swordsmith04: You’re scum and one player seems uncomfortably close to figuring you out. However he has also been dropping a few scum-tells himself. How do you react?

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

But if you were to be lynched would all your cases not be dismissed when you flip scum?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 13, 2013, 12:22:04 am

Nerjin: *long whistle* Thats a toughie. RoleClaiming Doctor at anytime seems a very scummy thing to do and i would pose heavy questioning of anyone tried this.

 Can't post anymore without it seeming silly as i'm not very lucid when tired. (long day at school then tons of homework and helping paint the inside of my house) See you all when the bunnies come out or whatever obscure reference i'm trying to make.  ciao?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 13, 2013, 12:37:33 am

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (0) --
borno (0) --
Imperial Guardsman (2) -- Spectr, Deathsword
Okami No Rei (1) -- Griffionday
swordsmith04 (1) -- Okami No Rei
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (1) -- RangerCado
Deathsword (0) --
--------------------------------------------------
Day will end at 16/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. There are 48:00 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:35:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Imperial Guardsman:
It is N1, and you are the cop. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player and an active yet scummy player. Who do you choose to inspect?

the scummy player. if he was ACTIVElurking, then the lurker

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:38:49 am

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 08:31:47 am

Imperial Guardian when trying to find scum what are the telltale signs you look for?

Active lurking ( trying to look active )
Bandwagoning ( voting just because that person has the most votes }
OMGUS ( voting because the person voted you )

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:40:41 am

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Imperial Guardsman, how do you plan to hunt scum?

See my answer to spectr
if i see those signs, i will point them out.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:44:10 am

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Imperial Guardsman: Your skills seem a little high up for a mining job… If you had a power role for either mafia or town which role would you want the most? Why?

scum godfather, town cop
cop, so i can see who is scum and thin numbers
godfather, for its ability

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:46:18 am

Deathsword,You are a mafia godfather and you are going to roleclaim
Do you roleclaim Townie, Cop, or Doctor? Why?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 13, 2013, 10:15:37 am

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman

=posts several times in a row=

[[Please try not to post multiple times like this in a row. It makes it harder to follow and it makes it look like you don't think out your posts. It's fine if you mess up from time to time I'm just saying try not to do this.]]

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2013, 11:16:38 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 12:41:37 pm

Deathsword:
Right, my bad.

Wasn't replacing the Doctor with a Jailer suggested as a way to level the playing field and make the game more difficult for scum?  How does this work in your opinion?

It makes the game harder for scum since in a setup like this one, if the cop claims the doctor (if there is one) will protect the cop every single night. This means every other player is completely unprotected, meaning the scum can kill anyone they want. With a jailor, the player with that role can choose to protect the cop... but it will prevent the cop from acting. Instead that player will try to protect other players, or even try to hit scum with their ability.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

DeathSword, do you prefer to be town or mafia? How do you play as the team you least prefer?

Town, but I don't really mind either team. I (try) play both the same way. Playing a different way when you are scum is generally a bad idea. Scum should try to play like town.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Deathsword: You’re an IC too. Nifty. From how the game has been played what are you feelings on the new players? Your fellow IC? Yourself?

It's a bit too early to say. Some of the new players are doing well. Some, not so much. All of them could, and should, improve. As for you, too early in the game to say. As for myself, I am myself.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Anyone who wants to answer a hypothetical question: This is a simple thing I’m curious about. I won’t expect an answer though as it’s not too relevant. You can stop reading now: Day 4 and no night kills have occurred. How do you react? All players are fairly active.

The scum could be not perfoming kills, the doctor (or doctors, assuming there are any) could have been very good with their protecting. Either way, scumhunting should proceed as normal.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 08:01:43 pm

Swordsmith

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

snip

Why is the N1 save the least important?

N1 save is the least important in my mind because there are more members on N1 than there are on subsequent nights. Whether the save is made N1 or not, the balance of town to scum is still largely in favor of town, but the longer the game goes the less town members there are, and the more pressure there is to get the save right. It's not that the N1 save isn't important, it's just that the later night saves are more important.

{The only way to "waste" a protect (try to use this term insteado "save") is to not use it at all. I'd say the best target for a N1 protect is a player that has neither been very agressive nor scummy. Scum often hit those players.}

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

swordsmith04: You’re scum and one player seems uncomfortably close to figuring you out. However he has also been dropping a few scum-tells himself. How do you react?

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

{Never say you are not good enough until you tried to do it. Often attacking is the best solution, and you can simply explain his flip by pointing out his scumtells.}

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:35:07 am

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Imperial Guardsman:
It is N1, and you are the cop. There are two players you are debating over investigating, a lurking player and an active yet scummy player. Who do you choose to inspect?

the scummy player. if he was ACTIVElurking, then the lurker

Why?
{Even if people don't ask why, you should give reasons. Otherwise you'll get lynched quite fast}

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:40:41 am

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Imperial Guardsman, how do you plan to hunt scum?

See my answer to spectr
if i see those signs, i will point them out.

{Ok. Let me tell you something. Just waiting for others to slip is bad. VERY bad. Horrible bad. Doing that will earn you votes against you, and I am keeping my vote as a player on you due to that. It is lazy and scummy. You should go and hunt, instead of sitting around activelurking. Yes, what you are attempting to do is activelurking. And that's terrible}

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:38:49 am

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 08:31:47 am

Imperial Guardian when trying to find scum what are the telltale signs you look for?

Active lurking ( trying to look active )
Bandwagoning ( voting just because that person has the most votes }
OMGUS ( voting because the person voted you )

Are these the only scummy things to you? Why are they scummy to you? Why are they more scummy than other things?

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:46:18 am

Deathsword,You are a mafia godfather and you are going to roleclaim
Do you roleclaim Townie, Cop, or Doctor? Why?

If I was a mafia godfather and it was a massclaim, it would depend on who has claimed yet. If everyone but me has claimed and there is no doctor, I might claim doctor. But most likely I'd claim townie.

Also, make a single post. Like this one.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Imperial Guardsman:

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:44:10 am

scum godfather, town cop
cop, so i can see who is scum and thin numbers
godfather, for its ability

Do you think the role-blocker is more or less powerful than the Godfather to the mafia's cause?  Why?

---

RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 13, 2013, 12:22:04 am

Nerjin: *long whistle* Thats a toughie. RoleClaiming Doctor at anytime seems a very scummy thing to do and i would pose heavy questioning of anyone tried this.

 Can't post anymore without it seeming silly as i'm not very lucid when tired. (long day at school then tons of homework and helping paint the inside of my house) See you all when the bunnies come out or whatever obscure reference i'm trying to make.  ciao?

The bunnies have come and gone...

---

Swordsmith;

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

N1 save is the least important in my mind because there are more members on N1 than there are on subsequent nights. Whether the save is made N1 or not, the balance of town to scum is still largely in favor of town, but the longer the game goes the less town members there are, and the more pressure there is to get the save right. It's not that the N1 save isn't important, it's just that the later night saves are more important.

So you measure the importance of the role by how likely it is to be successful?  I'd define that as usefullness, and say that I think the importance of a role is what it's capable of doing, in the case of a doctor allowing the town an additional day to scum-hunt.  Now I've not gotten to the late game, so I don't know if an additional day right before lylo is more valuable than one right at the beginning.  Do you think that by this definition of importance, N1 is still the least important?

---

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 13, 2013, 12:19:02 am

But if you were to be lynched would all your cases not be dismissed when you flip scum?

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

---

Nerjin:
Do you find that asking everyone questions at the same time gets you through the awkward stage of RVS quicker or if focusing on a handful is a better strategy in these (BM sized) games?  What about larger games?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 13, 2013, 05:55:57 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Swordsmith;

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

N1 save is the least important in my mind because there are more members on N1 than there are on subsequent nights. Whether the save is made N1 or not, the balance of town to scum is still largely in favor of town, but the longer the game goes the less town members there are, and the more pressure there is to get the save right. It's not that the N1 save isn't important, it's just that the later night saves are more important.

So you measure the importance of the role by how likely it is to be successful?  I'd define that as usefullness, and say that I think the importance of a role is what it's capable of doing, in the case of a doctor allowing the town an additional day to scum-hunt.  Now I've not gotten to the late game, so I don't know if an additional day right before lylo is more valuable than one right at the beginning.  Do you think that by this definition of importance, N1 is still the least important?

'Important' and 'useful' are practically synonyms in this case. As for whether N1 is still the least important, yes, I think so. Early game, there's less information to discern the scum. An additional town-member at that time is only another theory. Later in the game, there's more possible evidence, more chances for the scum to slip up have occurred, etc. Another town member at that point might mean the difference between a town and a scum victory.

---

Quote from: borno on April 13, 2013, 12:19:02 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

swordsmith04: You’re scum and one player seems uncomfortably close to figuring you out. However he has also been dropping a few scum-tells himself. How do you react?

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

But if you were to be lynched would all your cases not be dismissed when you flip scum?

Depends on the town, but if one player was on to me, the rest probably wouldn't be far behind.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 13, 2013, 09:37:35 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Nerjin:
Do you find that asking everyone questions at the same time gets you through the awkward stage of RVS quicker or if focusing on a handful is a better strategy in these (BM sized) games?  What about larger games?

Asking everyone questions at once is much better than just handful in my opinion. You may ask yourself why? Well the simple thing is that it gives me a read of some sort on EVERY player at once. If I focused on a handful I'd get less info. I've done this in every game to my recollection aside from the bastard mod I'm in right now.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 11:17:20 pm

Swordsmith:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 13, 2013, 05:55:57 pm

'Important' and 'useful' are practically synonyms in this case. As for whether N1 is still the least important, yes, I think so. Early game, there's less information to discern the scum. An additional town-member at that time is only another theory. Later in the game, there's more possible evidence, more chances for the scum to slip up have occurred, etc. Another town member at that point might mean the difference between a town and a scum victory.

But wouldn't a blocked scum kill at any point provide the town with one more member for each successive night as well as another pair of eyes to pour over the tells in the thread?  Thus wouldn't it make sense that the doctor is more important N1 when he can keep the scum from offing the best hunters?

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 13, 2013, 05:55:57 pm

Depends on the town, but if one player was on to me, the rest probably wouldn't be far behind.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

You seem awfully concerned that your scum game isn't up to snuff.  Nervous about this game or trying to make us complacent?

---

Nerjin:
And how useful do you think those reads typically are?  You say some sort of reads all at once; what I'm wondering is if the people who cycle through the players tend to think they get more solid reads on the select players they talk to.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Griffionday:
Why have you decided to only ask Nerjin questions about asking everyone a question in RVS, even though I did it too? Are you doing what you said earlier, attacking your scumpartner so that you look like you've distanced yourself from him?

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 13, 2013, 12:19:02 am

But if you were to be lynched would all your cases not be dismissed when you flip scum?

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

You would dismiss a case held by scum because the mafia aren't exactly a trustworthy source. There is about 50/50 chance of mafia attacking their scumbuddy or a random person. Sure, you could start up a new case against them, but it isn't good to use a proven mafia's case against someone. Remember Nuke in cult mafia? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92881.0) He did it except in reverse and got the guy lynched. I'd bet that if he were to be lynched before Daruish his case would of disappeared, and Daruish wouldn't have been lynched.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 12:44:32 am

Okay, not sleep deprieved and all my other games are in night mode so lets get this done.

Griff: A mafia member chasing after their partner has always been a distraction technique. If they flipped scum, try looking through their cases for someone they let off the hook a couple times for less than acceptable reasons. (i sound like an IC but my logic is probably flawed somewhere)

Borno: Your the cop night 2 and you've got 2 people you want to investigate. One helped lynch a mafia day 1 but hasn't provided too much to the discussion after this occurence, while the other lynched the Doctor day 2 but made several good points about others attitudes and voting. Who would you investigate and what do you think the alignment of the other might be?

Sword: Trying to get the lower skill level smoke screen to work, doesn't help... at all... EVER. All it does is draw attention to yourself further, and make you look scummy. Why does it seem like your trying to get us to overlook you?

Scelly: Are we being allowed a last post if we die as long as no information is given? (like a "well played guys, see ya next game.") Just want to find out as i see it in other games sometimes.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 14, 2013, 12:50:04 am

Yes. However said post may not include game info. (Tells, suspicions, night actions, ect.)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Why have you decided to only ask Nerjin questions about asking everyone a question in RVS, even though I did it too?

Four reasons really: His questions feel more like he knows how to collect reads on people and is going about doing that efficiently so as I want to learn how to do it he'd be the person to ask.  His question actually forced me to think for a minute or two and actually consider which I consider more powerful.  And his hypothetical question was actually fun to play with in my head for ten or so minutes.  Yours took maybe ten seconds to come up with an answer to.
Second, he's the IC so questions that are bordering on "how do I play this game" I feel are better asked to them.  Although I will freely admit that this puts them in an easy place to hide if they're scum. 
Third: Please take a moment and compare your eight questions to Nerjin's.  Notice anything slightly different about the questions?  That's right, Nerjin actually asked eight different questions.  You on the other hand ask one question eight different ways.  That's fine I'm sure; but it would help if that question could get you actual reads on people which I don't see as happening right now.  (please note that your current case on me is based on my interaction with Nerjin, not you)
The fourth? Well that partly answers your next question.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Are you doing what you said earlier, attacking your scumpartner so that you look like you've distanced yourself from him?

Who are you referring to as my scumbuddy?

I'm seriously confused here.  Your sentence reads like you're referring to me distancing myself from Nerjin.  Because I'm asking him questions.  Questions that, if I were using them to apply pressure, would be blatant softballling (which, yes, is an actual tell).  This is the fourth reason why I'm asking Nerjin and not you: Nerjin has a reason to answer the questions in a way that I can learn from for future games, you would have a bloody good reason to think that I'm budding you for a lynch if I flip scum.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

You would dismiss a case held by scum because the mafia aren't exactly a trustworthy source.

Two things: There is always the case to be made that scum have to play well, at our level they will be doing their best to be a townie.  This means they will be doing proper scum hunting no?  We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.  Now yes both of these can be abused by scum, but to dismiss their cases without at least looking through them with the knowledge that they are scum is to do a disservice to the town as a scum hunter.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

There is about 50/50 chance of mafia attacking their scumbuddy or a random person.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that that is WAY better odds than the rest of us have.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Sure, you could start up a new case against them, but it isn't good to use a proven mafia's case against someone.

Yes but looking through the mafia's cases is not a waste of time.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Remember Nuke in cult mafia? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92881.0) He did it except in reverse and got the guy lynched. I'd bet that if he were to be lynched before Daruish his case would of disappeared, and Daruish wouldn't have been lynched.

Before I call you an idiot for misreading the interations in that very interesting game I must point out that someone in that game disagreed with your case, and seems to have agreed with mine.  Nuke was asked to be prodded (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92881.msg2683070#msg2683070) by NativeForeigner who was a townie.  Meaning even as confirmed scum NF thought that Nuke would have something to add to the conversation.

Now that that's out of the way I must ask; why are you being such an idiot?  You are reading the interactions in that game completely wrong, to the point where I'm sure you literally couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  Nuke was acting VERY scummy, by that point everyone knew he was scum.  He was also buddying Daruish like crazy which is why Daruish was lynched.  NOT because Nuke created a decent case against him.  OF COURSE Daruish would have still been lynched if Nuke flipped scum; for all intents and purposes he already had.  The only reason Nuke was not lynched first was because the setup meant that killing the leader was the most important goal.

So I have a question for you: Why did you read me asking instructive questions to the IC as "distancing myself from him because he's obviously my scum partner"?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:49:54 am

EBWOP

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.

Sorry about that; I meant to say that the person that the scum let off should be looked into.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Griffionday:

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

borno:

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Third: Please take a moment and compare your eight questions to Nerjin's.  Notice anything slightly different about the questions?  That's right, Nerjin actually asked eight different questions.  You on the other hand ask one question eight different ways.  That's fine I'm sure; but it would help if that question could get you actual reads on people which I don't see as happening right now.  (please note that your current case on me is based on my interaction with Nerjin, not you)

Actually, I was asking 8 different scenarios to 8 different people. The variety of the questions are not the main focus of RVS, you should know that. In fact, I could have asked the same question to everyone and still gotten the answer I wanted. Because just because the same question has been asked does not necessarily mean that I will get the same answer for every single person. Lastly: Even if your interaction with the mod was scummy I would be suspicious. You ever heard of tunnelling? Chainsawing? OMGUSing? Yeah. You could do those to someone but everyone else would still be suspicious.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Are you doing what you said earlier, attacking your scumpartner so that you look like you've distanced yourself from him?

Who are you referring to as my scumbuddy?

I'm seriously confused here.  Your sentence reads like you're referring to me distancing myself from Nerjin.  Because I'm asking him questions.  Questions that, if I were using them to apply pressure, would be blatant softballling (which, yes, is an actual tell).  This is the fourth reason why I'm asking Nerjin and not you: Nerjin has a reason to answer the questions in a way that I can learn from for future games, you would have a bloody good reason to think that I'm budding you for a lynch if I flip scum.

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 01:22:26 pm

Why would you dismiss a case just because it was held by a scum?  What if the scum were involved in attempting to distance each other, and arguing against the other?  Wouldn't it be a good idea to be MORE careful when examining their cases rather than just lynching?

You would dismiss a case held by scum because the mafia aren't exactly a trustworthy source.

Two things: There is always the case to be made that scum have to play well, at our level they will be doing their best to be a townie.  This means they will be doing proper scum hunting no?  We also have what Ranger kindly pointed out, and that is that if their case is let off unsatisfactorily, then the person should be let into.  Now yes both of these can be abused by scum, but to dismiss their cases without at least looking through them with the knowledge that they are scum is to do a disservice to the town as a scum hunter.

But if they were to be given a choice between making a case on their partner or a VT, would they attack their partner and bring attention to him and possibly make him slip, or would they choose the random townie and, if successful in lynching, be one step closer to victory? Hmm, I really have no idea. I did word my case badly though, what I meant is that you shouldn't lynch someone just because a mafioso attacked them.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

There is about 50/50 chance of mafia attacking their scumbuddy or a random person.

I'd like to take a moment to point out that that is WAY better odds than the rest of us have.

And I'd like to take a moment to point out that those odds are NOT accurate. It depends on the situation, and while yeah, if the mafia attack one another and one gets lynched then they'll be perceived as town by others, bussing your partner while you're about to be lynched is not a very good tactic. Most mafia aren't willing going to go out of their way to attack each other if they can otherwise help it.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 12:07:19 am

Remember Nuke in cult mafia? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92881.0) He did it except in reverse and got the guy lynched. I'd bet that if he were to be lynched before Daruish his case would of disappeared, and Daruish wouldn't have been lynched.

Before I call you an idiot for misreading the interations in that very interesting game I must point out that someone in that game disagreed with your case, and seems to have agreed with mine.  Nuke was asked to be prodded (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92881.msg2683070#msg2683070) by NativeForeigner who was a townie.  Meaning even as confirmed scum NF thought that Nuke would have something to add to the conversation.

Now that that's out of the way I must ask; why are you being such an idiot?  You are reading the interactions in that game completely wrong, to the point where I'm sure you literally couldn't be more wrong if you tried.  Nuke was acting VERY scummy, by that point everyone knew he was scum.  He was also buddying Daruish like crazy which is why Daruish was lynched.  NOT because Nuke created a decent case against him.  OF COURSE Daruish would have still been lynched if Nuke flipped scum; for all intents and purposes he already had.  The only reason Nuke was not lynched first was because the setup meant that killing the leader was the most important goal.

Hmm, I'll agree that I did use a bad example. I had read it some time ago and I had forgotten what really happened.
Anyway, I will say that that's a bit of an over reaction. Calling me an idiot because I had used a bad example? Really? It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game, and you seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:44:28 am

So I have a question for you: Why did you read me asking instructive questions to the IC as "distancing myself from him because he's obviously my scum partner"?

Oh yeah. I almost forgot the last thing about your case on me being an absolute idiot with no mental capabilities at all: It's the RVS stage. I had strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some. I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him. But instead of calmly and collectedly explaining the faults in my case you decide to beat me over the head with it.

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:40:50 am

EBWODP:
RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 12:44:32 am

Borno: Your the cop night 2 and you've got 2 people you want to investigate. One helped lynch a mafia day 1 but hasn't provided too much to the discussion after this occurence, while the other lynched the Doctor day 2 but made several good points about others attitudes and voting. Who would you investigate and what do you think the alignment of the other might be?

I'd probably investigate the mafia lyncher first, because he could have just been bussing his partner, and he is acting more scummy than the other by not posting. The other is probably town, since there is no way a mafia could have known who the doctor was so early, and if he was lynched then that would of meant that the whole town found him scummy, so it would be the doctor's fault for being scummy rather than the lyncher's fault for lynching him.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 01:49:29 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Lastly: Even if your interaction with the mod was scummy I would be suspicious. You ever heard of tunnelling? Chainsawing? OMGUSing? Yeah. You could do those to someone but everyone else would still be suspicious.

Yep, I've heard of them.  Although I've not seen where tunnelling is a scum tell, I've always thought of it as a null tell.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

I think it was more the juxtaposition here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4175159#msg4175159) that caused me to think they were softball questions rather than the actual questions.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game.

If I were building a case against you I would have called you something other than idiot.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

You seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

What was your case really about, a inconsistency in how I was treating you vs. Nerjin?

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him. But instead of calmly and collectedly explaining the faults in my case you decide to beat me over the head with it.

Calling you an idiot was pushing it, for that I apologize.  I'm not used to cases being thrown my way that all parties involved know are rubbish, so I may have over-reacted a bit.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

I had [no?] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some.

Ironically proving my point about your questions not being the greatest in the world.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

Actually this (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Omgus) seems to say you do.  I think it's just over-reacting if you're not building a case/voting for them.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 14, 2013, 05:10:46 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 11:17:20 pm

Swordsmith:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 13, 2013, 05:55:57 pm

'Important' and 'useful' are practically synonyms in this case. As for whether N1 is still the least important, yes, I think so. Early game, there's less information to discern the scum. An additional town-member at that time is only another theory. Later in the game, there's more possible evidence, more chances for the scum to slip up have occurred, etc. Another town member at that point might mean the difference between a town and a scum victory.

But wouldn't a blocked scum kill at any point provide the town with one more member for each successive night as well as another pair of eyes to pour over the tells in the thread?  Thus wouldn't it make sense that the doctor is more important N1 when he can keep the scum from offing the best hunters?

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 13, 2013, 05:55:57 pm

Depends on the town, but if one player was on to me, the rest probably wouldn't be far behind.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 11:40:30 pm

Attacking my questioner will only confirm to them that I'm scum. Even I do manage to get the town to lynch the guy, he'll flip town and that will draw attention to me. It's really a question of 'Do I want to die now, or tomorrow?' The answer would be 'Let's take a townie with me.' Ideally, I'd argue effectively enough that everyone would assume the scummy townie had a bad read, but I don't believe for a second that I'm capable of diverting attention like that at my current skill level.

You seem awfully concerned that your scum game isn't up to snuff.  Nervous about this game or trying to make us complacent?

Yes, but there is more to look for later in the game. I didn't say the doctor shouldn't use his protect N1, just that its successful use - and the extra player it provides - was more important in the later game. If you disagree, that's fine by me.
I seem concerned about my scum game because that's what everyone's questions are about. If you'd asked me about my town game instead, I'd be just as concerned. I'm nervous because this is my first mafia game and I don't want to screw up and waste a day. As you've picked up on, I don't consider myself very good at anything with a 'social game'. Part of the reason I'm even playing this game is so I can get better at things like that.

---

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 12:44:32 am

Sword: Trying to get the lower skill level smoke screen to work, doesn't help... at all... EVER. All it does is draw attention to yourself further, and make you look scummy. Why does it seem like your trying to get us to overlook you?

Scelly: Are we being allowed a last post if we die as long as no information is given? (like a "well played guys, see ya next game.") Just want to find out as i see it in other games sometimes.

I'm not trying to get you to overlook me. If I'm coming off that way, I apologize. If I was trying to avoid attention, though, I'd be lurking... not unlike Okami No Rei. Can we get a prod, mod?

Oh, and as for the 'bah' post, this is from the OP:

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 05:59:37 pm

Swordsmith:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 14, 2013, 05:10:46 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 13, 2013, 11:17:20 pm

You seem awfully concerned that your scum game isn't up to snuff.  Nervous about this game or trying to make us complacent?

Yes, but there is more to look for later in the game. I didn't say the doctor shouldn't use his protect N1, just that its successful use - and the extra player it provides - was more important in the later game. If you disagree, that's fine by me.
I seem concerned about my scum game because that's what everyone's questions are about. If you'd asked me about my town game instead, I'd be just as concerned. I'm nervous because this is my first mafia game and I don't want to screw up and waste a day. As you've picked up on, I don't consider myself very good at anything with a 'social game'. Part of the reason I'm even playing this game is so I can get better at things like that.

Fair enough for now.  Unvote  My advice is to try to be your level best and not mention that it's your first game, learn from where you're not doing so great and do better on your next game.
Also: weekends count as zero time, so Okami is still int the green.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

It seems that that whole case against me at the end is based on how I confused the points of a certain game.

If I were building a case against you I would have called you something other than idiot.
[/quote]
No, you were building a case on how my case was trash.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

You seem to have ignored what it was really about you seem adamant on ripping my case into shreds, stomping on it over and over and screaming bloody murder  instead of perhaps having a friendly conversation that would of helped me gain a better read on you.

What was your case really about, a inconsistency in how I was treating you vs. Nerjin?
[/quote]
My case was really about a pressure vote to see your reply. Then I probably would have moved my vote somewhere else had this not happened.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

I had [no] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some.

Ironically proving my point about your questions not being the greatest in the world.
[/quote]
What's this? Are you really saying that you can instantly find out who is the mafia from RVS questions?

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

You don't have to vote to OMGUS, scum.

Actually this (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Omgus) seems to say you do.  I think it's just over-reacting if you're not building a case/voting for them.
[/quote]
This isn't Mafiascum you realise?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 14, 2013, 08:47:04 pm

Spectr and Okami No Rei have been prodded.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 14, 2013, 08:58:37 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Spectr: You’re scum and have been playing very well. Your partner… not so much. He’s dropping tells left and right. How do you react?

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 10:28:45 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

No, you were building a case on how my case was trash.

It was ill put together and referenced materials you obviously hadn't read in a while; so yeah it was.  What should I have treated it as?  I react very poorly to people who seem to be being deliberately stupid, such as building a case that was awful.  So yeah I over-reacted to it; that is something that I need to work on, both here and in real life.  But please for the love of all that you hold dear, don't present me a case that is just plain idiotic (like you did with your opening pressure vote).  I will add though, your current case is a much better built one, and a far more interesting conversation to have; so thank you for that.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

Are you really saying that you can instantly find out who is the mafia from RVS questions?

I'm saying thoughtful questions are more likely to provoke answers that will reflect the mindsets of the players than questions that are all the same.  So you don't have to go to the top of the list again when trying to get reads on people.

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

This isn't Mafiascum you realise?

I've never played a game there, and that is the wiki that is referenced for noobs to brush up on the lingo.  Also here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.msg673250#msg673250) seems to echo that definition; and even our very own Imperial Guardsman shares that definition (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4173330#msg4173330).  Could you please tell me where you're finding that OMGUS = Over reacting?  (Yes they're both scum tells, probably around equal weight really, but they are not the same.)

While you're at it, could you describe what you meant by tunneling being suspicious?  Thanks.

---

Spectr

Quote from: Spectr on April 14, 2013, 08:58:37 pm

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

No worries, work comes first of course.  Now that you're back though do you have plans to start hunting?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 14, 2013, 11:24:56 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 10:28:45 pm

---

Spectr

Quote from: Spectr on April 14, 2013, 08:58:37 pm

If my partner is dropping tells everywhere, I'd try to minimize the impact on me, and try to get him to stop his droppings.
Also sorry, I had a long weekend at work.

No worries, work comes first of course.  Now that you're back though do you have plans to start hunting?

Yes, sorry if I'm not terribly good as of yet. This is a bit different than what I am used to.

Imperial Guardsman, Could you expand on the question I asked of you earlier;

Quote from: Imperial Guardsman on April 13, 2013, 06:38:49 am

Quote from: Spectr on April 12, 2013, 08:31:47 am

Imperial Guardian when trying to find scum what are the telltale signs you look for?

Active lurking ( trying to look active )
Bandwagoning ( voting just because that person has the most votes }
OMGUS ( voting because the person voted you )

Specifically, why are those the signs you look for, and what makes them different than many other scum-tells.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

This Day 1 is a lot more relaxed than Webs... It feels nice to have the change.

Borno: The quoting in your previous post looks like it got butchered. Please try to avoid that, my head was spinning. Also, why is tunneling suspicious? It can be unhelpful in the long run, but it can also get you a good read on a possible scum. Weighing the pros and cons as it were.

SwordSmith: Lurking to fly under the radar... You'll be under it until someone notices, then they'll be questioning you extensively until you state some reads. Why do you think lurking helps you go unnoticed?

Imperial: Active lurking can usually be associated with RL stuff so its not that big a scum tell. BandWagoning is a good one to look out for but can often be unintentional. OMGUSing can be justified if their are blatant flaws in the voting persons logic that others also see.

---

UNVOTE Not a lot for me too go on here, except for Borno. He seems to be overreacting in his butchered quote post (please use the preview button guys) bordering on the line of anger or just sheer annoyance. And why the mafiascum reference? Mafia lingo can be applied from any source as long as the majority understand the meaning. And sugesting that someone can find all of the scum from RVS seems ridiculous to me. (it should have been worded better really)

 Thats all i have for now, ask me any questions you want and i'll get back to you in about 20 minutes or so.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:56:45 pm

scratch that, i'm beat. Will post more tomorrow. Also, can someone remind me of the deadline? If its monday night we may need an extension.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 14, 2013, 11:58:55 pm

Day will end at 16/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 15, 2013, 12:00:10 am

Extend

I need more time before I feel comfortable with an actual vote. Sorry but I just need time.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:21:30 am

Mod: Can we get pokes on Deathsword and Okami?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 15, 2013, 12:33:14 am

Deathsword has been poked.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Griffionday:

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 10:28:45 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

No, you were building a case on how my case was trash.

It was ill put together and referenced materials you obviously hadn't read in a while; so yeah it was.  What should I have treated it as?  I react very poorly to people who seem to be being deliberately stupid, such as building a case that was awful.  So yeah I over-reacted to it; that is something that I need to work on, both here and in real life.  But please for the love of all that you hold dear, don't present me a case that is just plain idiotic (like you did with your opening pressure vote).  I will add though, your current case is a much better built one, and a far more interesting conversation to have; so thank you for that.

Yeah, well that's because it was a pressure vote. I had just thrown something together to see how you would react. It was definitely NOT a lynching vote, otherwise I would have put far more attention to it. And if you find people deliberately being stupid bad, well that happens a lot here. Mafia and its gambits and all.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 10:28:45 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

Are you really saying that you can instantly find out who is the mafia from RVS questions?

I'm saying thoughtful questions are more likely to provoke answers that will reflect the mindsets of the players than questions that are all the same.  So you don't have to go to the top of the list again when trying to get reads on people.

That's not what I asked. What I asked is are you saying that these thoughtful questions instantly make you find scum?

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 10:28:45 pm

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 07:30:16 pm

This isn't Mafiascum you realise?

I've never played a game there, and that is the wiki that is referenced for noobs to brush up on the lingo.  Also here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.msg673250#msg673250) seems to echo that definition; and even our very own Imperial Guardsman shares that definition (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4173330#msg4173330).  Could you please tell me where you're finding that OMGUS = Over reacting?  (Yes they're both scum tells, probably around equal weight really, but they are not the same.)

While you're at it, could you describe what you meant by tunneling being suspicious?  Thanks.

It's right there in the manual. Here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"

Notice how Dak did not not vote for Litia, yet Litia recognises that he is still OMGUSing, and pushes him about it. Class dismissed.

Also, tunnelling is suspicious when done in excess. Focusing on one person and one person alone over the course of a day or two is suspicious, however short-term tunnelling is useful in getting mafia to crack.
RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

Borno: The quoting in your previous post looks like it got butchered. Please try to avoid that, my head was spinning. Also, why is tunneling suspicious? It can be unhelpful in the long run, but it can also get you a good read on a possible scum. Weighing the pros and cons as it were.

Sorry. Anyway, I agree with your views on tunnelling, as said above.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

UNVOTE Not a lot for me too go on here, except for Borno. He seems to be overreacting in his butchered quote post (please use the preview button guys) bordering on the line of anger or just sheer annoyance. And why the mafiascum reference? Mafia lingo can be applied from any source as long as the majority understand the meaning. And sugesting that someone can find all of the scum from RVS seems ridiculous to me. (it should have been worded better really)

Overeacting? I'm pushing him to see if he'll crack.
Why the Mafiascum reference? Because all forum mafias are different in at least one way. Similar to how we have RQS instead of RVS, some of our lingo is different as well.
Suggesting how someone can find all the scum from RVS? You're getting your people mixed up. Griffionday seems to be doing that, not me.

Where have you came up with all of this Cado? I hope that vote is just for pressure, because your case is flawed.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

borno

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Yeah, well that's because it was a pressure vote. I had just thrown something together to see how you would react. It was definitely NOT a lynching vote, otherwise I would have put far more attention to it. And if you find people deliberately being stupid bad, well that happens a lot here. Mafia and its gambits and all.

That... that... that's not how gambits work.  Gambits work because the people engaging in them are being clever, they never deliberately are stupid just for the fun of it.  They may be do it as a bluff, but that HARDLY applies to a hastily thrown together RVS phase.

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

That's not what I asked. What I asked is are you saying that these thoughtful questions instantly make you find scum?

No.

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

It's right there in the manual. Here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"

Notice how Dak did not not vote for Litia, yet Litia recognises that he is still OMGUSing, and pushes him about it. Class dismissed. [sentence moved outside of the spoilers for clarity]

Okay let's refer you to the OP

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or seems reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be seen supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Also, tunnelling is suspicious when done in excess. Focusing on one person and one person alone over the course of a day or two is suspicious, however short-term tunnelling is useful in getting mafia to crack.

A day or two real life or in game terms?

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Overeacting? I'm pushing him to see if he'll crack.

Don't tell me that! It ruins the surprise!

---

Your last post caused me to notice a disturbing trend in your thinking; you have over the course of several posts seemed to indicate that you were not really attempting to hunt well, or that shoddy play during the hunting stage is acceptable.  For example here:

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Yeah, well that's because it was a pressure vote. I had just thrown something together to see how you would react. It was definitely NOT a lynching vote, otherwise I would have put far more attention to it.

you say that you don't put any effort into your pressure, just choose a random person, apply pressure, rinse repeat.  Which is a flawed stratagy, as it weakens your pressure as the scum KNOW you don't have a bloodly clue what's going on.  In the same post you over-react to Ranger and say that his case on you is not of acceptable quality for a lynch vote, but would be fine for a pressure vote:

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Where have you came up with all of this Cado? I hope that vote is just for pressure, because your case is flawed

Again, why is it acceptable to play poorly if you don't know what's going on?  Won't that just cause you to miss target and never actually figure out what's going on? 

The next one is a bit arguable either way, I still say my questions to Nerjin would be hideous pressure questions as they don't produce a feeling of being critically examined in the person bein asked.  Your opinion of course differs:

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

-snip-

It's the RVS stage. I had [no] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some. I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him.

So you decided "well, if bland questions aren't getting me anywhere, I should just randomly attack people in an obvious fashion so the scum think I'm scum-hunting.  So when I vote for THEM they'll just crack like a nut.  Oh the brilliance of my plan!"


When I decided to call your case what we both admit it was, a weak case hastily thrown together to apply "pressure" on me, rather than play the condescending older brother and "having a friendly conversation that would of helped [you] gain a better read on [me]," (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4175582#msg4175582) you raise the hew and cry of OMGUS.  This is despite the fact that all I'm doing is treating your case with contempt.  I'm not voting for you as you seem to mostly be an ignorant noob who is over-reacting to being called an idiot rather than malicious scum.  You do seem extremely confused about your terminology and what constitutes a scum-tell though, so if it's a different tell you're actually trying to accuse me of, something that doesn't require you to re-define terms for instance, there is always the list in the OP or on MafiaScum to get the terminology correct so we both know what you're saying.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

It's right there in the manual. Here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"

Dak: Meh.  Why?

Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"

Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."

Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"

Dak: "He looked scummy.."

Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"

Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."

Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"

Notice how Dak did not not vote for Litia, yet Litia recognises that he is still OMGUSing, and pushes him about it. Class dismissed. [sentence moved outside of the spoilers for clarity]

Okay let's refer you to the OP

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or seems reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be seen supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

Thanks for helping my case.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

borno

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Yeah, well that's because it was a pressure vote. I had just thrown something together to see how you would react. It was definitely NOT a lynching vote, otherwise I would have put far more attention to it. And if you find people deliberately being stupid bad, well that happens a lot here. Mafia and its gambits and all.

That... that... that's not how gambits work.  Gambits work because the people engaging in them are being clever, they never deliberately are stupid just for the fun of it.  They may be do it as a bluff, but that HARDLY applies to a hastily thrown together RVS phase.

They're not being stupid for the fun of it, they're stupid to get scum to slip up. And I don't see what you're saying, RVS is the best time to do it, since it's the time where there are no reads

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Also, tunnelling is suspicious when done in excess. Focusing on one person and one person alone over the course of a day or two is suspicious, however short-term tunnelling is useful in getting mafia to crack.

A day or two real life or in game terms?

In game.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Overeacting? I'm pushing him to see if he'll crack.

Don't tell me that! It ruins the surprise!

I... wasn't talking to you, I was talking to RangerCado.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

Your last post caused me to notice a disturbing trend in your thinking; you have over the course of several posts seemed to indicate that you were not really attempting to hunt well, or that shoddy play during the hunting stage is acceptable.  For example here:

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Yeah, well that's because it was a pressure vote. I had just thrown something together to see how you would react. It was definitely NOT a lynching vote, otherwise I would have put far more attention to it.

you say that you don't put any effort into your pressure, just choose a random person, apply pressure, rinse repeat.  Which is a flawed stratagy, as it weakens your pressure as the scum KNOW you don't have a bloodly clue what's going on.  In the same post you over-react to Ranger and say that his case on you is not of acceptable quality for a lynch vote, but would be fine for a pressure vote:

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 03:19:00 am

Where have you came up with all of this Cado? I hope that vote is just for pressure, because your case is flawed

Again, why is it acceptable to play poorly if you don't know what's going on?  Won't that just cause you to miss target and never actually figure out what's going on? 

No, I'm not attempting to hunt badly, I just can't hunt well. Obviously when it comes down to the lynching I'll have refined my case and made sure everything was in order.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

The next one is a bit arguable either way, I still say my questions to Nerjin would be hideous pressure questions as they don't produce a feeling of being critically examined in the person bein asked.  Your opinion of course differs:

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

-snip-

It's the RVS stage. I had [no] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some. I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him.

So you decided "well, if bland questions aren't getting me anywhere, I should just randomly attack people in an obvious fashion so the scum think I'm scum-hunting.  So when I vote for THEM they'll just crack like a nut.  Oh the brilliance of my plan!"

It would be though. I really don't see the difference between 'if you were cop N1 who would you choose' and 'why exactly do you choose to ask everyone questions instead of just one person' in terms of pressure. Add a vote onto that and just like that it's become one of the most pressuring questions in the game.

And neither am I sure how 'what do you think about changing cop with jailer', 'what do you think the most epic scumplay here was' and  'what's the most informative part of finding scum' are better than my RVS questions, which you seem to be implying heavily.

One last thing, you assume too much. I attack someone, if something is revealed, I continue my attack. If someone else more scummy pops up, I switch my focus to them, while still maintaining conversation with my original target. No strings attached.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

When I decided to call your case what we both admit it was, a weak case hastily thrown together to apply "pressure" on me, rather than play the condescending older brother and "having a friendly conversation that would of helped [you] gain a better read on [me]," (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4175582#msg4175582) you raise the hew and cry of OMGUS.  This is despite the fact that all I'm doing is treating your case with contempt.  I'm not voting for you as you seem to mostly be an ignorant noob who is over-reacting to being called an idiot rather than malicious scum.  You do seem extremely confused about your terminology and what constitutes a scum-tell though, so if it's a different tell you're actually trying to accuse me of, something that doesn't require you to re-define terms for instance, there is always the list in the OP or on MafiaScum to get the terminology correct so we both know what you're saying.

Hahaha no.
Firstly, yup, I agree it was originally a weak case. No, I don't agree with your other points.
Secondly, are you saying you're treating me with contempt instead of actually engaging in civilised conversation with me? Wow.
Thirdly, overeacting? I think you're missing the point of RVS. Actually, I'll spell it out for you, since you can't seem to comprehend it yourself. In RVS, you have no reads on anyone. In RVS, you jump on any chance you have to gain reads on someone. In RVS, calling someone out for voting badly is wrong because RVS stands for RANDOM vote stage. My case against you at the start was barely anything. That's because I HAD barely anything. I hope I cleared a few things up for you.
And about me confusing my terminology, there's no-one confused here about terminology but yourself. I think that you should probably read it yourself before you give it to people and further incriminate yourself.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2013, 09:06:05 am

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:21:30 am

Mod: Can we get pokes on Deathsword and Okami?

Weekends do not count as far as game time goes. I am currently busy, I'l post when I am not.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 15, 2013, 11:55:39 am

I vote for an Extension. Will post more in a couple hours. School is killer.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

Thanks for helping my case.

How am I applying pressure to you again?

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

They're not being stupid for the fun of it, they're stupid to get scum to slip up. And I don't see what you're saying, RVS is the best time to do it, since it's the time where there are no reads

Could you give me an example of where being stupid has successfully caught a scum?

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

No, I'm not attempting to hunt badly, I just can't hunt well. Obviously when it comes down to the lynching I'll have refined my case and made sure everything was in order.

This could be a difference in play-style type thing, and this is actually a part of the game I've very little experience with, but shouldn't your pressure argument evolve into your lynch argument and not require a complete reworking?

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 04:32:50 am

The next one is a bit arguable either way, I still say my questions to Nerjin would be hideous pressure questions as they don't produce a feeling of being critically examined in the person bein asked.  Your opinion of course differs:

Quote from: borno on April 14, 2013, 05:02:55 am

Yeah, I'll admit that I read your questions in the wrong context, as pressure questions instead of a sincere question to the IC. But using questions like that for pressure would not be soft balling. I've seen it being done before and nobody started voting the person who did it. This question is as good as any to ask in the RVS stage.

-snip-

It's the RVS stage. I had [no] strong reads, so I decided to attack you to gain some. I did misread your case, I admitted that earlier, but I sincerely did not believe that you were a mafioso and Nerjin was your obvious scum partner, nor did I really believe that you were trying to distance yourself from him.

So you decided "well, if bland questions aren't getting me anywhere, I should just randomly attack people in an obvious fashion so the scum think I'm scum-hunting.  So when I vote for THEM they'll just crack like a nut.  Oh the brilliance of my plan!"

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

It would be though. I really don't see the difference between 'if you were cop N1 who would you choose' and 'why exactly do you choose to ask everyone questions instead of just one person' in terms of pressure. Add a vote onto that and just like that it's become one of the most pressuring questions in the game.

And neither am I sure how 'what do you think about changing cop with jailer', 'what do you think the most epic scumplay here was' and  'what's the most informative part of finding scum' are better than my RVS questions, which you seem to be implying heavily.

Fair enough; my thinking behind the questions was a s follows: the question to DS was to get a read on how he perceives the relative value of the roles in the game; if there was a substantial difference with how I perceived the roles I would have continued the line of inquiry.  The question to Spectr was to see if he'd taken the time to read and enjoy several of the mafia games, and what sort of skill level he'd be coming in with.  What was the thinking behind your questions?

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

One last thing, you assume too much. I attack someone, if something is revealed, I continue my attack. If someone else more scummy pops up, I switch my focus to them, while still maintaining conversation with my original target. No strings attached.

The only problem is the probability of tunnel syndrome, but that is the essence of all our town plays.

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

Hahaha no.
Firstly, yup, I agree it was originally a weak case. No, I don't agree with your other points.
Secondly, are you saying you're treating me with contempt instead of actually engaging in civilised conversation with me? Wow.
Thirdly, overeacting? I think you're missing the point of RVS. Actually, I'll spell it out for you, since you can't seem to comprehend it yourself. In RVS, you have no reads on anyone. In RVS, you jump on any chance you have to gain reads on someone. In RVS, calling someone out for voting badly is wrong because RVS stands for RANDOM vote stage. My case against you at the start was barely anything. That's because I HAD barely anything. I hope I cleared a few things up for you.

To your first point: yeah, so how did you expect me to react to it?  I in part took offence because you

To your second point: I'm admitting that I did precisely that for the first post.  Like I mentioned before your case on me is much better now, and I'm actually sort of enjoying this in a weird way.  It's an interesting perspective to be on the wrong side of a pressure campaign. 

To your third point, I leave the following without further comment:

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 08:29:20 am

Unvote
RangerCado:
Is that all you have for RVS? A single question which was someone else's turned around? Seems like lazy mafia to me. Anyway, I would probably kill the lurker in this situation, as trying to discern who is mafia through the NKs in complete WIFOM and is discouraged by the ICs.

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

And about me confusing my terminology, there's no-one confused here about terminology but yourself. I think that you should probably read it yourself before you give it to people and further incriminate yourself.

Nope, still pretty sure I'm less confused about the terminology than you, although that's a petty fight we really should have asked the IC's about ages ago.

---

Nerjin & Deathsword
In the terminology of this forum, would calling someone's case in a post against you idiotic while taking the time to go through their post point by point be OMGUSing?

Please note, I'm trying to favor borno's view so that we can agree that the question pertains to the current situation.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 15, 2013, 01:28:32 pm

Griff: I believe OMGUSing is only when you give no good reason other than they voted you so explaining it point by point is not OMGUSing.

Borno: I know from practice there is always a flaw with my logic. I've found however, that this flaw can usually help me get a better read or reaction from someone. You've been taking this whole thing a bit too seriously with Griff, all i see is you getting more and more annoyed about Griff's answers, despite the fact that they seem to be accurate and truthful to me. If you can give me solid evidence here of Griff being scummy, or you not, i may remove my vote but for now it seems that all your doing is taking a shot in the dark without any results.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 15, 2013, 06:53:12 pm

2/3 players voted for extension.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 15, 2013, 06:59:51 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 05:59:37 pm

My advice is to try to be your level best and not mention that it's your first game, learn from where you're not doing so great and do better on your next game.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

---

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

SwordSmith: Lurking to fly under the radar... You'll be under it until someone notices, then they'll be questioning you extensively until you state some reads. Why do you think lurking helps you go unnoticed?

Out of sight, out of mind. If a player isn't posting much or at all, most people generally tend to forget about them. A lurker also has less material to examine, so there's less to get a read off of. Seems like a fairly good early game tactic for RVS, if you can shake the suspicion later on.

---

Imperial Guardsman: You're a vanilla townie on day 3 and everyone else has roleclaimed. No one has claimed a town power-role. One scum is still in play; the lynched scum had no role. What do you claim to be? What if someone had claimed cop? (Explain your choices, please.)

RangerCado, same scenario as IG's, but you're the solitary scum, instead. What would you claim? How would being a roleblocker or godfather affect your decision?

Fakedit: I'll vote for that Extension as well, then.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 15, 2013, 07:07:29 pm

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. You have 66 hours left

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 16, 2013, 12:34:45 pm

Griffionday

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 02:47:48 am

Okami:
Do you have a preferred shortening or is Okami fine?

My preferred shortening is Crisco brand, and I am indeed a fine individual.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 12, 2013, 02:47:48 am

It could just be that it's very late over here, but how does the linked post demonstrate that Max White is town?  I probably had to be there, but I'm not seeing what MW's assumption was that he wouldn't have were he scum.  Could you clarify a bit further?

He didn't know that scum are an informed minority, or that they have a scumchat.

---

borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Okami No Rei:
It is D1, and you are the scum roleblocker. There are two play styles you are debating over using, a slightly more lurky playstyle to avoid attention, or a more active play style in which you are more likely to slip up. Which one do you choose?

Well, whether I have a power role doesn't enter the equation.  I prefer the active playstyle since I like the higher risk and it gives me a chance to exercise my linguistic prowess.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unfortunately, RL circumstance prevents me from adopting said style, Town or Scum, in any of my current games.  That'll have to wait until things slow down at work.

---

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Heh. I'm not exactly Legendary at either, but I'm hoping I won't sound like a complete idiot. Killing people doesn't help me, even if I could make a sword capable of cutting something. More people there are to dig, the better, obviously.

I see.  By that logic, we shouldn't lynch anyone either.  If you had a Vig-kill, would you kill for information, in the absence of suspicion?

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Okami No Rei, same to you. Why haven't you questioned anyone else yet? (Besides me, I mean.)

I've been busy.

---

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Anyone who wants to answer a hypothetical question: This is a simple thing I’m curious about. I won’t expect an answer though as it’s not too relevant. You can stop reading now: Day 4 and no night kills have occurred. How do you react? All players are fairly active.

I'd start scanning old posts, looking for a change in behavior, since we clearly have a cult on our hands, rather than generic mafia.  That or it's an all Town bastard game.  If we're definitely in a game without a cult or a bastard mechanic, well, I'd say we've got a damn skilled doctor or the Mafia is playing stupid and not using their kill in order to promote WiFoM.  In your hypothetical situation, have we lynched generic Mafia before?  How many players?

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Okami No Rei: I’ve also seen you around… Who do you feel is the biggest threat in this game if they were a scum?

Spectr - He's posting at the happy medium between coming under fire for lurking or posting too much and accidentally dropping a tell.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

Who would be the biggest boon as town?

Griffionday - Knows what he's doing as far as scumhunting goes.

Quote from: Nerjin on April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 pm

I’m curious as to your reads on the other players so far.

Griffionday - Town
RangerCado - Town
borno - I agree with Griffionday's points thus far.
Imperial Guardsman - Org, but without the piercing insights.  Likely to succumb to LAL.  Null-read.
swordsmith04 - Town
Spectr - Townish

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 16, 2013, 02:10:50 pm

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on April 16, 2013, 06:07:20 pm

What is ORG and LAL?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 06:38:56 pm

Okami No Rei:

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 16, 2013, 12:34:45 pm

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 12, 2013, 05:22:19 pm

Heh. I'm not exactly Legendary at either, but I'm hoping I won't sound like a complete idiot. Killing people doesn't help me, even if I could make a sword capable of cutting something. More people there are to dig, the better, obviously.

I see.  By that logic, we shouldn't lynch anyone either.  If you had a Vig-kill, would you kill for information, in the absence of suspicion?

If I was a vig and didn't have any idea who the remaining scum were, and there was enough information to be gained from it whether the player flipped scum or town, then yes, I would. This is assuming most or all of the town is stuck, not just myself.

---

Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight, I would guess.
And you didn't answer my question.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 16, 2013, 07:00:55 pm

MOD: how much time until the deadline? Also votecount please.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 06:38:56 pm

Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight, I would guess.
And you didn't answer my question.

Nor has he answered mine.

{Imperial Guardsman, PLEASE don't be Org 2, it's not fun for anyone}

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 15, 2013, 06:59:51 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 14, 2013, 05:59:37 pm

My advice is to try to be your level best and not mention that it's your first game, learn from where you're not doing so great and do better on your next game.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

---

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

SwordSmith: Lurking to fly under the radar... You'll be under it until someone notices, then they'll be questioning you extensively until you state some reads. Why do you think lurking helps you go unnoticed?

Out of sight, out of mind. If a player isn't posting much or at all, most people generally tend to forget about them. A lurker also has less material to examine, so there's less to get a read off of. Seems like a fairly good early game tactic for RVS, if you can shake the suspicion later on.

---

Imperial Guardsman: You're a vanilla townie on day 3 and everyone else has roleclaimed. No one has claimed a town power-role. One scum is still in play; the lynched scum had no role. What do you claim to be? What if someone had claimed cop? (Explain your choices, please.)

RangerCado, same scenario as IG's, but you're the solitary scum, instead. What would you claim? How would being a roleblocker or godfather affect your decision?

Fakedit: I'll vote for that Extension as well, then.

Why the RVS questions when we are out of RVS? Haven you seen nothing you consider scummy or worthy of questioning?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 16, 2013, 07:05:34 pm

Griffionday (1) -- borno
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (2) -- Spectr, Deathsword
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, swordsmith04, Nerjin, Griffionday

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 41 hours remaining.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 16, 2013, 07:15:46 pm

Mod, I currently am not voting for anyone.

I unvoted here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4176843#msg4176843).

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 16, 2013, 07:19:44 pm

Eh? What are you talking about, I did nothing! *shiftyeyes*

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 16, 2013, 07:28:52 pm

Scelly edited! What are you hiding!?!?  8)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Remuthra on April 16, 2013, 08:01:19 pm

((No edits, Scelly! You get modkilled!))

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 08:10:40 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 16, 2013, 07:00:55 pm

Why the RVS questions when we are out of RVS? Haven you seen nothing you consider scummy or worthy of questioning?

I kind of just stopped asking questions when Griffionday started questioning me. I didn't mean to do that, but I could barely put responses together at that point*, let alone asking questions as well. I'm just making up lost time now. Griffionday seems to be doing a good job, and a 'BTW I vote borno too' is just scummy. I picked two of the players I was less sure of and asked them a random question as an opener. We've got almost two days left in D1, plenty of time for me to pick a target and vote. Also, when did RVS end?

*I caught what I like to call 'mafia-itis', since it timed itself so perfectly. Coughing, sneezing, sore throat, fever, headache, a bit of vomiting on sunday and monday morning, etc. It's cleared up a bit, now, so I should be fine in a day or two.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 16, 2013, 10:25:36 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 08:10:40 pm

Also, when did RVS end?

RVS ends when you have reads you want to pursue.  It's a bit suspicious if you're a good deal later at developing reads than everyone else, as that indicates you're having difficulty being paranoid, which is the natural state of town.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 16, 2013, 10:35:55 pm

From what i've seen, RVS usually ends after about 24-36 hours when everyone has answered about 3 different questions and you start investigating wording, reasons, and why someone has suddenly gone after another. Also, Borno, where are you man? You've been gone for over 30 hours.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 17, 2013, 12:47:11 am

Griffionday

Quote from: Griffionday on April 16, 2013, 02:10:50 pm

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

You accused him of playing lazily early on, which indicates he doesn't care about his scumhunting (Scum read).  His replies since you started pushing him strike me as nervous and overwrought.  He's getting defensive, as in scum scrambling to answer defensive.    I can't point to anything in particular, it's simply the overall tone I gather from this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177743#msg4177743) and this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177884#msg4177884).

---

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 06:38:56 pm

If I was a vig and didn't have any idea who the remaining scum were, and there was enough information to be gained from it whether the player flipped scum or town, then yes, I would. This is assuming most or all of the town is stuck, not just myself.

Could you provide an example situation where you think this would be the case?

---

Imperial Guardsman - swordsmith04 nailed it in one:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 06:38:56 pm

Imperial Guardsman, LAL is 'Lynch All Lurkers'. Org is a player known for brevity and keen insight.

Org also stands with webadict as one of the two players on this board on whom one can safely and successfully push a D1 policy lynch. 
His posts generally consist of one to five words, he rarely quotes, and he's fond of all-caps.

The way you play is similar.  This is frustrating for Town, because we need you to show us that you are, in fact, not scum, so we don't have to waste a lynch on you.  We need more from you than just "Vote [player].  He seems scummy."  If we don't know why you think someone is scummy, we can't decide whether we agree, and, as suspicious scum-hunters, we have to assume you have some ulterior motive if you're not going to provide reasons.

That said, why aren't you voting anyone?  Who do you suspect most right now?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 17, 2013, 04:46:19 am

Griffionday:

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

Thanks for helping my case.

How am I applying pressure to you again?

'Overeacting', as you put it, is essentially attacking someone after they attacked you. Which applies pressure.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

They're not being stupid for the fun of it, they're stupid to get scum to slip up. And I don't see what you're saying, RVS is the best time to do it, since it's the time where there are no reads

Could you give me an example of where being stupid has successfully caught a scum?

Well, there's BM IV (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43648.0) for one. Read MagmaDeath's gambit at the end; he managed to out both scum, but he was lynched anyway from good play from the mafia. I chose that example because it was a BM like the one we're in now.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

No, I'm not attempting to hunt badly, I just can't hunt well. Obviously when it comes down to the lynching I'll have refined my case and made sure everything was in order.

This could be a difference in play-style type thing, and this is actually a part of the game I've very little experience with, but shouldn't your pressure argument evolve into your lynch argument and not require a complete reworking?

Yeah? I'd refine it, not reform it.

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

Hahaha no.
Firstly, yup, I agree it was originally a weak case. No, I don't agree with your other points.
Secondly, are you saying you're treating me with contempt instead of actually engaging in civilised conversation with me? Wow.
Thirdly, overeacting? I think you're missing the point of RVS. Actually, I'll spell it out for you, since you can't seem to comprehend it yourself. In RVS, you have no reads on anyone. In RVS, you jump on any chance you have to gain reads on someone. In RVS, calling someone out for voting badly is wrong because RVS stands for RANDOM vote stage. My case against you at the start was barely anything. That's because I HAD barely anything. I hope I cleared a few things up for you.

To your first point: yeah, so how did you expect me to react to it?  I in part took offence because you

To your second point: I'm admitting that I did precisely that for the first post.  Like I mentioned before your case on me is much better now, and I'm actually sort of enjoying this in a weird way.  It's an interesting perspective to be on the wrong side of a pressure campaign. 

To your third point, I leave the following without further comment:

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 08:29:20 am

Unvote
RangerCado:
Is that all you have for RVS? A single question which was someone else's turned around? Seems like lazy mafia to me. Anyway, I would probably kill the lurker in this situation, as trying to discern who is mafia through the NKs in complete WIFOM and is discouraged by the ICs.

I was doing exactly what I said I was doing in my third point. Jumping on any opportunity possible. How exactly does this excuse you from commenting?

Quote from: Griffionday on April 15, 2013, 12:08:37 pm

Quote from: borno on April 15, 2013, 07:04:34 am

And about me confusing my terminology, there's no-one confused here about terminology but yourself. I think that you should probably read it yourself before you give it to people and further incriminate yourself.

Nope, still pretty sure I'm less confused about the terminology than you, although that's a petty fight we really should have asked the IC's about ages ago.

Good idea.

---

I do think that you've answered all of my questions well though, and I'm getting a bit of a townish vibe from you. I think I'll Unvote. Time to find another target!

Okami No Rei:

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 17, 2013, 12:47:11 am

Griffionday

Quote from: Griffionday on April 16, 2013, 02:10:50 pm

Crisco brand:

Care to expand on your borno read?  I'm not seeing him as scummy right now.

You accused him of playing lazily early on, which indicates he doesn't care about his scumhunting (Scum read).  His replies since you started pushing him strike me as nervous and overwrought.  He's getting defensive, as in scum scrambling to answer defensive.    I can't point to anything in particular, it's simply the overall tone I gather from this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177743#msg4177743) and this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177884#msg4177884).

Nervous and Overwrought? Nah, I'd say more like angry and bitter. But don't worry, I've taken my pills I'm feeling better now.

On a more serious note though, are you saying that because Griffionday accused me of playing lazily indicates that I don't care about my scum hunting? What the hell? I love my scumhunting thank you very much! I've said this at least twice, but I'll tell you a third time. I am not lazy, I have bad cases because strong cases don't magically appear in RVS stage. Will you at least take the time to read over my posts before making a case on me?

And don't worry about past me's tone, I've made arrangements to have him dead.
RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 16, 2013, 10:35:55 pm

From what i've seen, RVS usually ends after about 24-36 hours when everyone has answered about 3 different questions and you start investigating wording, reasons, and why someone has suddenly gone after another. Also, Borno, where are you man? You've been gone for over 30 hours.

I feel special. You miss me being gone for 30 hours when other people have been gone for the whole game but you don't care.

Lastly, Everyone:
If everyone could present their reads, that would be grand. Here are mine:

Griffionday: Seems towny, answers questions and generally helps with the scum hunting. A bit Defensive though

Nerjin: More of a null-read on, hasn't really posted much

RangerCado: Null read, leaning a little town

Deathsword: Also null, doesn't seem to have done much so far

Swordsmith: Leaning town, gives good questions and thorough answers, if sometimes incorrect

Okami: Slightly scummy, rather verbose and lurky (RL issues)

IG: Slightly scummy, lazy, lurks, active lurking although he says he hates active lurking

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 17, 2013, 05:03:37 am

EBWODP:
My reads are a little outdated, I gave them a few touch-ups before posting them, but not much. Just a warning in advance behind.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 17, 2013, 11:13:00 am

For those of you wondering where your handsome/pretty IC Nerjin is well... RL issues. I'll be on later today however and I will sort through all of these posts and give my reads on all players at that time. Thank you for your patience.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 17, 2013, 01:56:46 pm

Griffionday (1) -- borno
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (2) -- Spectr, Deathsword
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, swordsmith04, Nerjin, Griffionday

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 22 hours remaining.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 17, 2013, 04:13:13 pm

Quote from: borno on April 17, 2013, 04:46:19 am

Lastly, Everyone:
If everyone could present their reads, that would be grand. Here are mine:

Griffionday: Seems towny, answers questions and generally helps with the scum hunting. A bit Defensive though

Nerjin: More of a null-read on, hasn't really posted much

RangerCado: Null read, leaning a little town

Deathsword: Also null, doesn't seem to have done much so far

Swordsmith: Leaning town, gives good questions and thorough answers, if sometimes incorrect

Okami: Slightly scummy, rather verbose and lurky (RL issues)

IG: Slightly scummy, lazy, lurks, active lurking although he says he hates active lurking

No read on me, eh? What're you hiding ;)

As for my reads, I am a bit busy right now. I'll post 'em up later tonight

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 17, 2013, 07:40:15 pm

Scelly:
*cough**cough* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4182657#msg4182657)*cough*

---

borno:
I know you kept hinting that you were only pressing me to see my reaction and that I didn't seem particularly notable either way.  Changing your vote after two people start pressuring you is a bit suspicious though.  Should I just chalk that up to really awkward timing, or did the pressure force you to reexamine your case on me and realize you were tunneling a bit hard?

Also note that good play trumped stupid play in the BM you linked.  Do you have an example where it successfully ended in the lynch of the scum?

Quote from: borno on April 17, 2013, 04:46:19 am

I love my scumhunting thank you very much! I've said this at least twice, but I'll tell you a third time. I am not lazy, I have bad cases because strong cases don't magically appear in RVS stage. Will you at least take the time to read over my posts before making a case on me?

You did say "I'm not attempting to hunt badly, I just can't hunt well."  But I see how you could have meant that you're not capable of hunting well.

---

Deathsword:
Please tell me you have more to contribute than just that one post.

---

Ranger:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 14, 2013, 11:38:19 pm

He seems to be overreacting in his butchered quote post (please use the preview button guys) bordering on the line of anger or just sheer annoyance. And why the mafiascum reference? Mafia lingo can be applied from any source as long as the majority understand the meaning. And sugesting that someone can find all of the scum from RVS seems ridiculous to me. (it should have been worded better really)

Since when have anger and annoyance by themselves been scum reads?
Why does being pedantic in his argument to elicit a reaction from me read as scum?
How did you misread his case by so much?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 15, 2013, 01:28:32 pm

You've been taking this whole thing a bit too seriously with Griff, all i see is you getting more and more annoyed about Griff's answers, despite the fact that they seem to be accurate and truthful to me. If you can give me solid evidence here of Griff being scummy, or you not, i may remove my vote but for now it seems that all your doing is taking a shot in the dark without any results.

Why the ultimatum?  Why are explicitly saying what may change your vote rather than poking him about the areas without making any promises?

---

General reads:
RangerCado could be more active, slight scum read.
borno I'm reading as town as he did seem to really care about the arguments he's presented against me.
Imperial Guardsman hasn't been around.  I'm leaning scum, but that could just be a case of unfamiliar play-style.
Okami No Rei seems to be pompous, which hopefully will be hilarious.
swordsmith04, leaning noob town,
Spectr hasn't been around much.  Could be a joker and I still wouldn't have a read on him.
Nerjin busy but feels town.
Deathsword seems busy but my read is leaning scum due to his saying that he'd post and then not posting anything with any substance.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 17, 2013, 07:44:48 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on April 17, 2013, 07:40:15 pm

Scelly:
*cough**cough* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4182657#msg4182657)*cough*

Dammit.

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (2) -- Spectr, Deathsword
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, swordsmith04, Nerjin, Griffionday, Borno

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 16 hours remaining.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 17, 2013, 07:51:54 pm

Okami No Rei:

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 17, 2013, 12:47:11 am

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 16, 2013, 06:38:56 pm

If I was a vig and didn't have any idea who the remaining scum were, and there was enough information to be gained from it whether the player flipped scum or town, then yes, I would. This is assuming most or all of the town is stuck, not just myself.

Could you provide an example situation where you think this would be the case?

Admittedly, in a scenario where town has few or no leads the potential benefit of a town-flip is small. A confirmed townie does mean that everyone can compare their reads to the known townie's, and we can examine how that townie interacted with the others. Not worth the vig-kill by itself. The chance of hitting scum instead is the main reason I might do it, not only for actually killing the scum but giving us a chance to root out their scumbuddy, too, if they're still in play. I should probably have been less definitive about it, really. More like 'I (probably) would'. The chance of me hitting scum and getting us back on track with one or more possible targets is probably better than scum slipping up at that stage, since up until that point the entire town has been fooled.

---

borno:

Griffionday - Town
RangerCado - Null, leaning towards town. Looks to be taking cues from Griffionday
borno - Null leaning scum.
Imperial Guardsman - Scum
Okami No Rei - Null, leaning slightly scum. Conveniently missed most of D1 despite having logged on to Bay12 at least once without posting in the thread during that time.
Spectr - Null. Leaning scum for lurking. On rereading, they didn't seem to be lurking all that much. Their posts have little to no content, though, so I'll keep my reading as is.
Nerjin - IC; Null until proven otherwise. Leaning slight town.
DeathSword - IC; Null until proven otherwise. Leaning slight town.

---

Imperial Guardsman:
You show up for the game a day late and provide no excuse, posting five times in a row (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4173323#msg4173323) and making your response look larger than it actually was. Your answers are short, mostly unexplained, and inadequate. Your only attempt at RVS is to question an IC on how a scum would try to appear town. Despite being asked to clarify one of your answers, you then disappear for three days, and when you show up again (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4181697#msg4181697) you ignore the clarification request and my question. I and DeathSword immediately prompt you for answers and Okami No Rei asks you a third question, and you still haven't answered us yet, over a day later. Despite last being active on the forums less than an hour before this post. Counting your pentuple (Is this even a word? Bah, you all know what I mean.) posting as one post, you have posted in this thread exactly twice since the game began, five days ago. Explain to me why we shouldn't lynch you right now, scum?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 17, 2013, 10:42:49 pm

Griffionday - Null to twon
RangerCado - Null to slight town
borno - Slighty leaning towards scum as he seems a bit quick to attack, and doesn't seem to scum hunt only defend himself.
Imperial Guardsman - Scum, as you don't seem to posting all that much, and when you do you don't seem to try to answer any questions too well.
Okami No Rei - Null to slight scum as he was missing for a while
Swordsmith - Slight town
Nerjin - Slight Town
DeathSword - Null

I think that's everyone

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 17, 2013, 11:15:44 pm

Griff: I was trying (and failing) to play 3 games at once and i have another reason you know of in Web's game. I'm leaving Meph's B. Mod so i can focus more on this game. Gonna reread the whole thread and get back here with some reads.

Also, EXTEND

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 18, 2013, 11:43:49 am

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (3) -- Spectr, Deathsword, swordsmith04
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, Nerjin, Griffionday, Borno

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 17 minutes remaining.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 18, 2013, 11:45:23 am

Aren't 2 of those votes on Imperial from RVS? well, this is bad.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 18, 2013, 11:52:39 am

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 18, 2013, 12:00:04 pm

Imperial Guardsman is taken to a corner of the cave. One of you raises a large rock above his head. "Wait, wait don't..." Crack. It only takes one blow, he's gone. You search his belongings but find nothing to indicate he's anything more than just a simple miner.

Imperial Guardsman has been lynched! He was a Miner.

Everyone seems tired after the execution, and heads back to the main cave. You all drift off one by one, until everyone is fast asleep.

Power Roles, please PM me your choices, Mafia, please PM me your kill choices after deliberating.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 19, 2013, 05:47:04 pm

You realizes that something is wrong immediately after you wake up. You wake everyone up, well, almost everyone. Griffionday stays asleep, and after a quick check, you confirm that he's going to be asleep permanently.

Griffionday has been nightkilled! He was a Miner.

Day 2 will end Day will end at 24/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 72:00 Hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 19, 2013, 06:02:37 pm

I'm honestly a bit flattered.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 19, 2013, 06:07:26 pm

PFP:
Wow, I can't believe that just happened. Sorry IG.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 19, 2013, 09:53:27 pm

Well, i have a weekend to read over Griff's posts and see if i can find anything... though considering the nature of this game, i doubt i'll find much.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 20, 2013, 04:01:17 pm

 Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 22, 2013, 11:08:04 am

Quote from: Spectr on April 20, 2013, 04:01:17 pm

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

Quote from: borno on April 19, 2013, 06:07:26 pm

PFP:
Wow, I can't believe that just happened. Sorry IG.

Condolenses are nice but let's focus on actually finding the people who did this. Or perhaps the two of you would like to tell us why you killed him.

On another note: I apologize for not being around much but it's the final week of college. I'll be around as I can.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 22, 2013, 11:10:35 am

Heh, I just bumped you. Sorry bout that.

Swordsmith, Nerjin, Okami, and Deathsword have been bumped.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 22, 2013, 11:12:19 am

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 22, 2013, 11:10:35 am

Heh, I just bumped you. Sorry bout that.

Swordsmith, Nerjin, Okami, and Deathsword have been bumped.

I will forgive you. In exchange I must be made a Miner God. I shall be given ALL the abilities. If my demands are not met I shall be slgithly disappointed.

PFP

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 22, 2013, 11:48:33 am

I'm currently very sick, I'll get another post with non-IC content tonight.

{We are now in Day2 after lynching a town (and having another die in the night). Townie lynches often happen in day1. Saying you are sorry contributes nothing to finding scum and may even make you look like you are trying to appear town by being sorry. Remember that a lynch always gives information, and not just to the town. Information is good and you'll want it no matter your team. Now look over day1 and see if you can find anything scummy.}

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 22, 2013, 05:22:10 pm

I'm here now, I just had Limited Access over the weekend. (I sent you a PM before I left, Scelly. Didn't you get it?)

RangerCado: What are you going to do now that Griffionday has been Nked? You can't bandwagon on whomever he's focusing on, now.

Also, Extend. I don't know what happened over the weekend, but that's half of D2 gone with nothing to show for it. We're gonna need more than two days at this rate.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 22, 2013, 05:24:21 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 22, 2013, 05:22:10 pm

I'm here now, I just had Limited Access over the weekend. (I sent you a PM before I left, Scelly. Didn't you get it?)

RangerCado: What are you going to do now that Griffionday has been Nked? You can't bandwagon on whomever he's focusing on, now.

Also, Extend. I don't know what happened over the weekend, but that's half of D2 gone with nothing to show for it. We're gonna need more than two days at this rate.

Weekends don't count for time.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 06:05:26 pm

SwordSmith: I was trying to see if i could justify any of his reads myself. He wasn't even voting anyone so there wasn't much to go on in the first place. And what do you mean focusing on now?  He's been killed so he can't focus on anyone. As for what i'm going to do, investigate more into Borno and wait for people to post.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 22, 2013, 06:19:59 pm

Urist Imiknorris has requested a replacement, anyone willing to step up as the new Scum IC?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on April 22, 2013, 08:18:14 pm

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 22, 2013, 06:19:59 pm

Urist Imiknorris has requested a replacement, anyone willing to step up as the new Scum IC?

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 02, 2013, 10:25:16 pm

Replacement List:

• Remuthra
• The Soldier

• Tiruin (IC)

I'm willing.[/list]

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 22, 2013, 08:34:47 pm

Quote from: Nerjin on April 22, 2013, 05:24:21 pm

Weekends don't count for time.

I realize that. D2 ends on Wednesday, and we haven't even started scumhunting for today yet. Two days doesn't seem like very much time.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 06:05:26 pm

SwordSmith: I was trying to see if i could justify any of his reads myself. He wasn't even voting anyone so there wasn't much to go on in the first place. And what do you mean focusing on now?  He's been killed so he can't focus on anyone. As for what i'm going to do, investigate more into Borno and wait for people to post.

Exactly. You can't do what Griffionday is doing if he isn't around to do anything. I apologize if my meaning was unclear.
When exactly do you plan on questioning borno? D2 is half over (and yes, I'm counting weekends, because you can still scumhunt and vote then) and you haven't asked a single question yet. Waiting for other people to post? You might as well wait for N2, because Scelly telling you who was lynched is your next guaranteed post in this thread. If you want activity, make it. Griffionday isn't around to push people into talking anymore.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 22, 2013, 09:18:15 pm

MOD: I don't see anything in the rules saying I can't be both a Vanilla Towny and Scum IC.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

RangerCado - My re-read of D1, and your first few posts today, tell me that you are scum.  Why?
You started off strong at the beginning of D1, but your last substantial post was here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177381#msg4177381), when you voted Borno.  These are all of your posts after that point:
1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4177399#msg4177399) - Promise of more posts.
2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4178330#msg4178330) - Extension request, and promise of more posts.
3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4178522#msg4178522) - Answered a question, and made a weak excuse for keeping your vote on Borno (more below).
4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4181883#msg4181883) - Joking with the mod. No content.
5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4182282#msg4182282) - RVS chatter.  Pulled the "I'm waiting for my questions to be answered." excuse for active-lurking.
6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4184605#msg4184605) - More excuses for active lurking. More promises of posts. Another extend request.
7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4185559#msg4185559) - Complained about the upcoming lynch on IG, with no attempt at scumhunting those involved.
End of D1

Looks to me like you hopped on Borno bandwagon and then just waited for the day to end.  Very conversational, very friendly.  No scumhunting.  Anywhere.  The most interesting ones are number 3 and number 7.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 15, 2013, 01:28:32 pm

Borno: I know from practice there is always a flaw with my logic. I've found however, that this flaw can usually help me get a better read or reaction from someone. You've been taking this whole thing a bit too seriously with Griff, all i see is you getting more and more annoyed about Griff's answers, despite the fact that they seem to be accurate and truthful to me. If you can give me solid evidence here of Griff being scummy, or you not, i may remove my vote but for now it seems that all your doing is taking a shot in the dark without any results.

Here you threaten to leave you vote on Borno until he provides what?  Solid evidence?  On D1?  That's a completely unreasonable hurdle for anyone to try to jump.  All you're doing here is giving an excuse to leave your vote on him and take a pass on the rest of the day.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 18, 2013, 11:45:23 am

Aren't 2 of those votes on Imperial from RVS? well, this is bad.

I realize you posted this just under the wire, but 'This is bad'?  Really?  That's all you have to say?  No final questions for Spectr or the Swords?  Did you not believe IG was scum?  Or did you know IG was a Miner, seeing as how you're scum, and you were keeping your hands clean of the mess, while trying to score some brownie points before he croaked?

Anyway, let's move on.  So far today, we have two posts:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 19, 2013, 09:53:27 pm

Well, i have a weekend to read over Griff's posts and see if i can find anything... though considering the nature of this game, i doubt i'll find much.

Another excuse to active-lurk over the weekend.  You spent your time reading D1, when you could have been questioning the participants in the IG bandwagon?  Or do you not want to go there because one of them's your scumbuddy?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 06:05:26 pm

He wasn't even voting anyone so there wasn't much to go on in the first place. And what do you mean focusing on now?  He's been killed so he can't focus on anyone. As for what i'm going to do, investigate more into Borno and wait for people to post.

Way to deflect the question.  Swordsmith ninja'd me on this, but I would also very much like to know when you're planning on investigating Borno, because it looks to me like you're doing more waiting around for the day to end.  Also, waiting on people to post?  That's virtually an admission that you're scum who just doesn't care.

So.  Who are your suspects?  Why haven't you even bothered to vote anyone today?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 22, 2013, 09:21:19 pm

EBWOP
Just to clarify, this is the question that you deflected:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 22, 2013, 05:22:10 pm

RangerCado: What are you going to do now that Griffionday has been Nked? You can't bandwagon on whomever he's focusing on, now.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 22, 2013, 09:25:34 pm

{I won't be able to get that post out after all. Okami, the problem, generalizing, with a townie being scum IC is that you'll know who the scum team is. A dead player could fill in with no problems, I guess.}

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: zombie urist on April 22, 2013, 09:29:30 pm

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 22, 2013, 09:18:15 pm

MOD: I don't see anything in the rules saying I can't be both a Vanilla Towny and Scum IC.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Umm cuz if you are scum ic youll know who the scum are.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 22, 2013, 09:37:15 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on April 22, 2013, 09:29:30 pm

Umm cuz if you are scum ic youll know who the scum are.

Blast!  My cunning plan ruined!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okay, lets do this thing.

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post. And i agreed with Griffs points but that doesn't mean i was taking cues from him. He left off on Borno but i decided (no matter how weak it may have been) to stay on him.

SwordSmith: What are your thoughts on being the deciding vote on IG and him showing up Town?

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

Borno + Spectr: Where are you guys?

Nerjin: You've posted twice since Griffs NK. The first was saying people should get back to the game and the second talking with the Mod. What are your thoughts on Griffs NK and do you have a suspect?

---

My reads so far:
Okami: Neutral leaning town- Hasn't done anything that i could call scummy besides trying to be the scum IC.

SwordSmith: Null- Need to read more on him.

Borno: Neutral leaning scum: Suspected D1 but hasn't posted anything recent to look at.

Nerjin: Null- Need to read more on him.

DeathSwrod: Neutral leaning scum: Had the chance to change his RVS vote but didn't, hasn't contributed much.

Spectr: Null- Hasn't done enought to get a good read on. Left his vote on IG in RVS then disappeared.

---

Thats what i have for now, did i miss anything?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Spectr on April 23, 2013, 06:12:37 am

RangerCado:  I am sad that IG is town,  but i don't think he brought up any valid points nor did he try to defend himself.  Leading on to why i didn't change my rvs vote. IG, past those five, did not post with any content, also he did not explain himself when myself, and others asked him to.
I am at school, so I'll part more once i escape

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Nerjin on April 23, 2013, 12:35:03 pm

Request Replacement for the rest of the week. If at the end of the week no one accepts I'll rescind my request. I just simply won't have time this week to be as helpful as I should. After the week I will but until then you all deserve better.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 12:47:03 pm

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (2) -- Okami No Rei, Deathsword
borno (0) --
Imperial Guardsman (0) --
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Griffionday, RangerCado, borno, Imperial Guardsman, swordsmith04, Spectr, Nerjin,

Day 2 will end Day will end at 24/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 23:00 hours left.

Nerjin has requested a replacement.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-

Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

Borno: You along with IG, Griff, and Nerjin didn't vote Day 1. IG and Griff turned up dead and town so i can't ask them why but you i can. So, why didn't you vote? And what are your current reads? You haven't posted much so you must have something.

Nerjin: Same thing, why didn't you place a vote or request an extension?

Okami: Okay, so your voting me and you have made good points on my behaviour. However, do you have anything on anyone else? Tunneling me isn't going to help the Town too much so branch out to others. What are your reads on everyone? If i'm scum, who do you thinks my partner?

Spectr: You as well. Anyone else popping up on your radar besides me?

---

EXTEND, we're gonna need more time on this.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 23, 2013, 01:17:40 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-

Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

His complete dissapearance after making what was essentially one extremely shallow post divided in five to look like he was doing something was scummy. He acted in a scummy way (in his 1-post-in-five) and then vanished. As for if scum has been killed for lynching D1: I do not know, but I would bet on it having happened at least once.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 02:11:46 pm

Death: i'm guessing you meant lurking and its probably happened once, but everything happens once. If 9 times out of 10 lurkers aren't scum Day 1, then its not really a good thing to base a vote on.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 23, 2013, 02:40:41 pm

I would like to be added to the replacement list. Thank you. :)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 02:41:56 pm

Would you like to replace in for nerjin right now?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 23, 2013, 02:50:53 pm

That sounds good to me.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 02:58:48 pm

NEVERMIND.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 02:59:49 pm

Ah, fuck I forgot Nerjin's an IC. Disregard that, but you're at the top of the Replacement list.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 23, 2013, 03:02:05 pm

Ok, that whole think just confused me completely but I understand the basis of what happened. What is important is that I'm where I want to be. Thanks.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 23, 2013, 03:03:08 pm

You could just consider Nerjin to be a dead IC and let him replace in anyway.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on April 23, 2013, 04:32:21 pm

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 23, 2013, 03:03:08 pm

You could just consider Nerjin to be a dead IC and let him replace in anyway.

Or you could, rather, just chuck that Shinigami in the replacement list and forget that whole mistake ever happened XD

Spoiler: Sorry Scelly but the context made my day (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 02:41:56 pm

Would you like to replace in for nerjin right now?

Quote from: Scelly9 on April 23, 2013, 02:58:48 pm

NEVERMIND.

Note that the reason was on the next page so I saw this as a huge tip of snark at the poor guy...XP

Nice to see a new player though.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 23, 2013, 04:40:28 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on April 23, 2013, 04:32:21 pm

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 23, 2013, 03:03:08 pm

You could just consider Nerjin to be a dead IC and let him replace in anyway.

Or you could, rather, just chuck that Shinigami in the replacement list and forget that whole mistake ever happened XD

Nerjin requested a replacement. I thought it was an elegant solution to get a new player into the game.

Okami's more than good enough to serve as an IC anyways.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 23, 2013, 08:07:36 pm

I'm fine with anything~ But hopefully Okami is great because it sounds like he is bravely entering a battlefield of nubes

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 10:58:31 pm

...Where is everybody?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 24, 2013, 12:55:22 am

Quote from: Captain Ford on April 23, 2013, 04:40:28 pm

Nerjin requested a replacement. I thought it was an elegant solution to get a new player into the game.

Okami's more than good enough to serve as an IC anyways.

Thank you for the vote of confidence.  I'm far too busy right now to IC properly, but, given the circumstances, I can certainly sub for Nerjin so Shinigami_King can sub in.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 24, 2013, 02:05:22 am

RangerCado

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

And yet you continue to wait for him to post.  Your play reeks of active-lurking.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

It's not the fact that you complained, but rather the fact that you didn't immediately come out swinging against them D2 after IG flipped town.  A bandwagon made up of RVS votes is very suspicious.  If it concerned you that much, why weren't you interrogating its participants at the start of the day?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

And i agreed with Griffs points but that doesn't mean i was taking cues from him. He left off on Borno but i decided (no matter how weak it may have been) to stay on him.

Why?  What did you hope to accomplish by doing that?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Borno + Spectr: Where are you guys?

Once again, you're using the "I'm waiting for Borno to post" excuse.  Why haven't you thrown any questions his way, so he has something to answer whenever he does?  Are you trying to prolong your scumhunting?  FAKEEDIT: Creating post as I read.  I see now it took both me and Deathsword jumping on you before you finally got around to scum-hunting again, or at least trying to appear to do so.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 02:11:46 pm

If 9 times out of 10 lurkers aren't scum Day 1, then its not really a good thing to base a vote on.

Lurking is a favorable tactic for scum because it means we can't catch them for anything else.  If we let people get away with lurking, then scum can just lurk the day away and Town will end up killing each other while trying to find them.  Yes, it means that nine times out of ten, we lynch a flaky newbie who isn't scum, but, if we have nothing better to go on, it helps to both remove dead weight from the game and it prevents lurking from being a viable scum tactic.  This is why we have a policy of Lynch All Lurkers (LAL).

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Okami: Okay, so your voting me and you have made good points on my behaviour. However, do you have anything on anyone else? Tunneling me isn't going to help the Town too much so branch out to others. What are your reads on everyone? If i'm scum, who do you thinks my partner?

I choose not to answer at this time.  I have two reasons.  The first is that I am sure RangerCado is scum.  The second I will explain today iff certain conditions are met.  I will give a full explanation in my first post on D3 if I am still alive and if those conditions are not met today.

Why are you still not voting anyone?

---

Quote from: Spectr on April 23, 2013, 06:12:37 am

I am at school, so I'll part more once i escape

Still waiting on you, Spectr.  I'd like to hear your reads when you get back.  Why do you think scum picked Griffionday last night?

---

swordsmith04 - Why did you only FoS RangerCado, rather than vote for him?  Do you think he's scum?  Who's your primary suspect?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 24, 2013, 02:19:23 am

Sorry, forgot about this.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 24, 2013, 02:26:04 am

EBWODP:
*Sorry, forgot about this. Will make post soon.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 24, 2013, 06:10:08 am

RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
And i agreed with Griffs points but that doesn't mean i was taking cues from him. He left off on Borno but i decided (no matter how weak it may have been) to stay on him.

SwordSmith: What are your thoughts on being the deciding vote on IG and him showing up Town?
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

So when are you going to actually start questioning borno? There's only a few hours left to D2, and you've done nothing since Friday. And when you voted for borno, Griffionday was still questioning him - he hadn't 'left off' him at all. You're activelurking, bandwagoning scum, Cado.


It sucks that IG was town and that I was the one who got him lynched, but it's not like town was any worse off with him gone. Guy lurked like crazy. It's hard to judge whether his points were good if he didn't make any.

---

Okami No Rei:

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 24, 2013, 02:05:22 am

swordsmith04 - Why did you only FoS RangerCado, rather than vote for him?  Do you think he's scum?  Who's your primary suspect?

I FoS'd him because at the time I thought he was town. A half-step between a vote and not showing my suspicion at all. His actions - or rather, lack of actions - on D2 are pretty scummy however. In particular, saying that he's going to start scumhunting and questioning borno but not doing either, to this point in the day is very scummy.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 24, 2013, 10:21:39 am

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (3) -- Okami No Rei, Deathsword, swordsmith04
borno (0) --
Imperial Guardsman (0) --
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: RangerCado, borno, Spectr, Nerjin,

Day 2 will end at 24/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 25:40 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 24, 2013, 10:48:56 am

MOD - IG and Griff are dead.  Also, let Shinigami_King sub in for Nerjin.  I'll take on Nerjin's IC duties.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 24, 2013, 02:11:54 pm

Scelly: ...its ending today... but in 25 hours???

DeathSword: IG's mass post wasn't useful and when he started lurking it made him look scummy. Lynching lurkers is better for town yes, but when you don't even give reasons outside of "he's lurking and being unhelpful", then you've killed someone when others were scummy. You didn't give any other cases on anyone, didn't pressure vote anyone, and didn't even vote for an extension during which IG may have come back. Lynching a lurker should be the last place your vote goes when you have no one else, not when you could easily ask for more time to find other scum.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 24, 2013, 02:36:34 pm

Heh, whoops. I misread that as tomorrow. Anyway, ending in 20 minutes.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on April 24, 2013, 02:48:14 pm

Might as well just BAH! post now, I doubt i'll be saved in 10 minutes.

Good luck guys and i hope i get better at this sooner rather than later. See you all in the next BM!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 24, 2013, 02:57:08 pm

RangerCado has been lynched! He was a Sneaky Saboteur (Roleblocker)

Night 2 ends 26/4/2013 at 6:00 GMT

The reason I was blocking Shinigami from joining at the time was he was a RL friend of Ranger and knew his role. Shinigami, if you still want to join, please post after night ends.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 26, 2013, 10:49:51 am

Okami No Rei has been killed! He was a Miner.

Day 3 will end 5/01/2013 at 18:00 GMT. 73 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 26, 2013, 03:52:57 pm

I will join, however I am going on an eight day long trip. Please don't expect me to post as much as the average bear.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Sorry for the lurkyness everyone, I'll try to redeem myself today.
Late RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Borno: You along with IG, Griff, and Nerjin didn't vote Day 1. IG and Griff turned up dead and town so i can't ask them why but you i can. So, why didn't you vote? And what are your current reads? You haven't posted much so you must have something.

I unvoted Griffionday because I thought that he was town. I didn't vote after because the game had surprise ended before I could get a read on anyone else.
Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Okami No Rei on April 26, 2013, 07:16:38 pm

Woo!  I died!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 26, 2013, 07:21:31 pm

Quote

How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

If that's friendly question, I can say I am quite exited. If thats a question to see how I will think and play I will answer that I am looking forward to being able to succeed in the game, despite coming late with less experience. I seem to be filling in some pretty big shoes.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on April 26, 2013, 08:52:00 pm

Quote from: Okami No Rei on April 26, 2013, 07:16:38 pm

Woo!  I died!

Ye hath dug too deep. :P

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Hello hello hello. I figure I should post how I am viewing everything right now if I am away more often this week. I have finished skimming over all the posts starting at day one and here are my personal views of everyone.

Borno- leaning towards scum. He really seems to active lurk

Quote

Sorry for the lurkyness everyone, I'll try to redeem myself today.

also take note he didn't really seem to try to redeem himself.

Swordsmith- looks like scum to me. I was looking for not truly threatening banter between Ranger and others and swordsmith seems to fit the bill

Quote

So when are you going to actually start questioning borno? There's only a few hours left to D2, and you've done nothing since Friday. And when you voted for borno, Griffionday was still questioning him - he hadn't 'left off' him at all. You're activelurking, bandwagoning scum, Cado.

.
Death sword- seems a bit lurky and he doesn't seem reliable but other than that I can't point fingers without searching out some obscure quotes that probably don't mean anything.

Turuin- Hasn't really done anything major so I can't judge. Whos place are you replacing again? Though you don't seem the utmost reliable seeing as you have only really made jokes thus far.

Question time!

---

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

---

Swordsmith- Everything you have been doing honestly seems a little fishy to me. Would you like to explain your motives? You also voted Ranger. Could you answer the same question as written above.

---

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on April 27, 2013, 06:40:14 am

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Turuin- Hasn't really done anything major so I can't judge. Whos place are you replacing again? Though you don't seem the utmost reliable seeing as you have only really made jokes thus far.

I'm glad I made an impact already -- I'm the scum IC, Shinigami. I am not reliable at all to you miners, with all them picks and whatnot.

The only one I am reliable to is that person. Right there? To your left.

{But anything in braces are my IC voice - I could pop in later in game to give advice if anyone else can't...at the moment. Do note that I'm not playing and the above is just banter.}

*Tiruin hasn't done anything major but replace the scum IC.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 11:56:12 am

Quote

Do note that I'm not playing and the above is just banter

I understand all of the things now. Sorry for my mistakes.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2013, 12:41:34 pm

We killed one of the scum players, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax, there is another one still.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

Nothing wrong with posting even when others do not.

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Borno: You keep apologizing for lurking, and yet you lurk. I still remember that BM where you lurked to victory as scum.

{Do not lurk, people! Nothing kills a game faster than lurking}

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:57:23 pm

Quote

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Shinigami:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Swordsmith- looks like scum to me. I was looking for not truly threatening banter between Ranger and others and swordsmith seems to fit the bill

Quote

So when are you going to actually start questioning borno? There's only a few hours left to D2, and you've done nothing since Friday. And when you voted for borno, Griffionday was still questioning him - he hadn't 'left off' him at all. You're activelurking, bandwagoning scum, Cado.

---

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

---

Swordsmith- Everything you have been doing honestly seems a little fishy to me. Would you like to explain your motives? You also voted Ranger. Could you answer the same question as written above.

---

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

To start with, welcome to the game. If you feel like no one has posted recently, that is one of the best times to post. Inactivity only benefits scum. As for non-threatening banter, I can see how you'd think that. During D1 and early D2 I thought Cado was more noob town than scum, following Griffionday because Griff was doing a great job at scumhunting. When he just stopped doing anything D2 is what made me switch my opinion of him. I had about 15 minutes to write up a post when I voted him D2, and I usually take a long time to write up my posts. Not nearly enough time to put together anything decent at that point, so I just threw in a line that sounded aggressive. The part you quoted was the aborted beginning of me writing up my own case on Cado. The only reason I posted at all was because I didn't want to just disappear from the thread for two days.

I voted Cado because I thought he was scum. He was promising actions but not actually doing anything, despite having plenty of opportunity, and he was bandwagoning whoever Griffionday was questioning.

As for Okami, I'd guess that the scum NKed them because of effective scumhunting. So far, they've killed Griffionday and Okami No Rei, both of whom were doing a fair bit of scumhunting and generally seemed to know what they were doing. That would've been my reasoning for killing them, anyway. And yes, if I were scum, I would have targeted those two.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:57:23 pm

Quote

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

If a scumtell could only ever be utilized in one case, then nobody would ever have more than one vote against them. Bandwagoning is a scumtell; agreeing that someone is scum isn't necessarily one. You might notice that I voiced suspicion of RangerCado before Okami No Rei did. If you didn't, the relevant posts are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196195#msg4196195) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196656#msg4196656).

Now I've got a question for you. Why would you try to sub into a game where you already knew who one of the scum were?

---

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:57:23 pm

Quote

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

If a scumtell could only ever be utilized in one case, then nobody would ever have more than one vote against them. Bandwagoning is a scumtell; agreeing that someone is scum isn't necessarily one. You might notice that I voiced suspicion of RangerCado before Okami No Rei did. If you didn't, the relevant posts are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196195#msg4196195) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196656#msg4196656).

Now I've got a question for you. Why would you try to sub into a game where you already knew who one of the scum were?

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

---

Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

---

I would like to mention to everyone that I have no idea where Spectr is and he hasn't posted in a while. Am I missing something or has he been lurking? In fact, he hasn't said a word since I got here. Come on out, I don't bite... much  :P

---

Borno. What's up? Are you just going to let everyone see you as an active lurker? You should try to scum hunt, or at least clear your name otherwise you might loose even my trust. Do you have any suspects right now? I'd love to here your ideas.

---

Deathsword--

Quote from: Deathsword on April 27, 2013, 12:41:34 pm

We killed one of the scum players, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax, there is another one still.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

What are your opinions of my points so far. Do you see any flaws in them. I personally think Borno may not be doing the best job of being active but reconsider your vote. We are not on LaLo yet and all Borno has done is be annoying. He does not seem threatening but more just a poor player at the time. (I do think that you need to post Borno!) Look at his questions and answers during RVS. In fact, all of day one he was going quite strong. I feel like RL issues should not be an instant lynch. Consider giving a little lee way. That is unless you convince me otherwise and he is scum.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Captain Ford on April 27, 2013, 04:31:19 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

There should be a "Quote" link on the upper-right corner of every post.

• You can copy and paste the bbcode from several quotes to string them together into one post.
• Don't be afraid to trim down a post to isolate only the content you want to address. (You can add "-snip-" to the ends if you feel insecure about it)
• Make liberal use of the preview button to make sure you did it all correctly.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Griffionday on April 27, 2013, 04:44:56 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

I tend to keep multiple tabs open: One with my post, at least one for reading the thread and comparing various pages, one that has the post bbcode that I'm quoting, and often another that has the post displayed as it posted (to easier orient myself in a wall of text post that I only want to quote a couple relevant sentences from).

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 11:41:52 pm

Thank you for telling me~

---

From this point on for eight days I will not be making posts often. I will try to make at least one per day but I have no idea if I will have internet access. Just so you guys know. Every time I do get a chance to post I will try to be constructive to the scum hunt at hand. Ciao ^-^

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 28, 2013, 08:05:31 am

Sorry if I appear to be lurking, sometimes I'm busy in the weekends. I should be able to make a post tomorrow after school.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Agh. Need to pay more attention to this. Bay12 suggestion games are such amusing reads, though...

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

Ah. I assumed that because of the GM mentioning it that you were specifically aware of the scumteam in this game, mostly that you might know who the scumpartner was or that you could be subbing in for them. You did still offer to sub in before Cado was lynched, though. Since you knew he was scum and was still in play, why would you sub in for another player?

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

I would like to mention to everyone that I have no idea where Spectr is and he hasn't posted in a while. Am I missing something or has he been lurking? In fact, he hasn't said a word since I got here. Come on out, I don't bite... much  :P

---

Borno. What's up? Are you just going to let everyone see you as an active lurker? You should try to scum hunt, or at least clear your name otherwise you might loose even my trust. Do you have any suspects right now? I'd love to here your ideas.

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you. :P
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on April 28, 2013, 10:44:57 pm

A quick post do to the fact I suck at texting. I didn't actually think about the problems involved with joining this game until ranger mentioned it in RL after I went through the motions to sign up. He also told me to keep hope because he figured he would be out of the game soon.

Also, I'm looking forward to your post Borno.

If you guy's have any questions for me go ahead. I am going to have a hard time scum-Hunting but I will try to be of as much help as possible.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on April 29, 2013, 04:43:50 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.

---

Anywho, first thing's first.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you. :P
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.

---

Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 30, 2013, 01:59:25 pm

Everyone other than Borno has been poked.

borno (1) -- Deathsword
swordsmith04 (2) --Shinigami_King, borno
Spectr (0) --
Shinigami King (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Spectr, Swordsmith04

Day 2 will end Day will end at 01/05/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 22:00 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on April 30, 2013, 06:26:08 pm

Extend. I simply can't post today.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 01, 2013, 01:24:14 am

Extend while I wait for everyone else. Who's the lurker now, huh?!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 01, 2013, 09:36:50 am

I have a few minutes to post. I like the case that you're putting out Borno. It looks like spectr is still deciding not to post :/ any who, I was not sure if I would keep my vote but yeah, I'm keeping my vote on swordsmith04. Before we are finished I think we should try to see if we see any other scummy actions. I don't really need it but I will say extend for you guys.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 01, 2013, 12:30:00 pm

borno (1) -- Deathsword
swordsmith04 (2) --Shinigami_King, borno
Spectr (0) --
Shinigami King (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Spectr, Swordsmith04

Day 2 will end Day will end at 03/05/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 48:00 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 03, 2013, 12:29:38 pm

You drag Swordsmith behind a rock. A short scream later, and the few that went with him come back with downcast faces.

Swordsmith has been lynched! He was a Miner!

Night will end 5/6/2013 at 18:00 GMT. 24:00 Hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 06, 2013, 06:27:09 pm

As you wake up in the morning, you look around hurriedly. After a quick headcount, you realize that you are all here. Nobody has died tonight. The good mood settles back to depression as the day moves on and a new board is draw up in chalk. Four names left.

Day will end 5/6/2013 at 18:00 GMT. Approximately 72 hours left.

Spectr needs a replacement, anyone up for it?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 06:43:58 pm

... i haven't been tracking this thread, and I'm brand-new to forum mafia (seriously, my total game count is 0), but i suppose i could hop in at the last minute for you.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 06, 2013, 06:44:35 pm

Sounds good. Lenglon has replaced in for Spectr!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 06, 2013, 06:46:19 pm

You know. I think specter is out as far as being scum goes. It is probably just a case of RL getting in the way. So we should look at his replacement neutral/ town. I suggest we start thinking of what is going on with everything now. The number one suspect that I had was town and as I said specter is out for me. So that leaves borno and death sword as my suspects.

---

We are also on LaLo and my opinion as to why the scum didn't night kill is because we are on LaLo no matter what and this leaves more suspects.

This was a simple post but I don't really know what to say other than this right now. I'm curious as to what everyone is thinking as well.

I would like to welcome you Lenglon! And don't worry, I'm green as well :P

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 07:01:38 pm

ok, only 16 pages? this wont take as long as i was afraid it would. *gets out pencil and paper* I'll post an opinion soon.

GM, according to the first post of the thread, there's some kind of a role PM i should be getting? I dont have one right now.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 06, 2013, 07:04:02 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 07:01:38 pm

GM, according to the first post of the thread, there's some kind of a role PM i should be getting? I dont have one right now.

That's been sitting in another tab. Sent, now. Sorry bout that.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on May 06, 2013, 08:32:32 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 07:01:38 pm

ok, only 16 pages? this wont take as long as i was afraid it would. *gets out pencil and paper* I'll post an opinion soon.

First time I've ever heard someone take that in an optimistic way. I like that ^^

{I am not playing. I am giving my honest opinion. I am the scum IC. This has no correlation to whether the player is scum or not. I like Lenglon :I. Take that platonically and in an I admire his qualities-ish way.}

Only 16 pages...If only everyone would adopt that attitude :P

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on May 06, 2013, 08:32:32 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 07:01:38 pm

ok, only 16 pages? this wont take as long as i was afraid it would. *gets out pencil and paper* I'll post an opinion soon.

First time I've ever heard someone take that in an optimistic way. I like that ^^

{I am not playing. I am giving my honest opinion. I am the scum IC. This has no correlation to whether the player is scum or not. I like Lenglon :I. Take that platonically and in an I admire his qualities-ish way.}

Only 16 pages...If only everyone would adopt that attitude :P

compared to reading ER? this is NOTHING!
also, when i volunteered to replace, i had mixed up the length of this with magic mafia. I'd buckled down for a 78-page read. seeing that this is just 16 was kind of amazing.

---

GM: are there hammers this game?

finished my readthrough and i'm disappointed. there has been almost no sucmhunting this game, days 2 and 3 everyone just tunneled and lurked. it's somewhat ridiculous.

current scum reads: borno looks apathetic or really scummy for his massive lurking, and for <redacted because WIFOM Fuel>
problem is, deathsword ALSO reads as scum to me because he's being ineffective and is an IC so can be held to a higher standard, no hard pressure on anyone for days, pretty much active lurking, and bandwagoned on swordsmith with no real questions.
least scummy is shinigami because he's actively scumhunting, but he also just replaced in so i'm having to make a snap decision on him.

Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?
why haven't you been hunting? why haven't you been prodding the other players for NOT hunting?
what is your opinion on borno specifically? why have you let him off so easily for mistaking noobtells for scumtells?
why did you jump on the swordsmith bandwagon with such a tiny post? you never even talked to him beforehand.

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

how do you plan to do this? show me please.

Borno: why have you been lurking so hard ever since day 1? you were active and useful then, but haven't done much since. why haven't you taken the initiative since griffon pressured you back on day 1. why have you only asked shinigami a single question since he replaced in?

Quote from: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

really? that's all you have to ask him? ever? not even a single RVS question?

Shinigami: what do you think of the lack of roles this game? what is your opinion of Borno's passive lurking vs Deathsword's active lurking? why are you, the newest person here other than myself, the one that is actively scumhunting the most?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on May 06, 2013, 08:32:32 pm

Take that platonically and in an I admire his qualities-ish way.

arn't you usually the one that's picky about pronouns? :P
coloring and bolding are mine.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 04:02:05 am

Spoiler: Deathsword's Day2 Posts (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Deathsword on April 22, 2013, 11:48:33 am

I'm currently very sick, I'll get another post with non-IC content tonight.

{We are now in Day2 after lynching a town (and having another die in the night). Townie lynches often happen in day1. Saying you are sorry contributes nothing to finding scum and may even make you look like you are trying to appear town by being sorry. Remember that a lynch always gives information, and not just to the town. Information is good and you'll want it no matter your team. Now look over day1 and see if you can find anything scummy.}

Quote from: Deathsword on April 22, 2013, 09:25:34 pm

{I won't be able to get that post out after all. Okami, the problem, generalizing, with a townie being scum IC is that you'll know who the scum team is. A dead player could fill in with no problems, I guess.}

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 01:17:40 pm

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-

Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

His complete dissapearance after making what was essentially one extremely shallow post divided in five to look like he was doing something was scummy. He acted in a scummy way (in his 1-post-in-five) and then vanished. As for if scum has been killed for lynching D1: I do not know, but I would bet on it having happened at least once.

Spoiler: DeathSword's Day3 posts (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Deathsword on April 27, 2013, 12:41:34 pm

We killed one of the scum players, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax, there is another one still.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

Nothing wrong with posting even when others do not.

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Borno: You keep apologizing for lurking, and yet you lurk. I still remember that BM where you lurked to victory as scum.

{Do not lurk, people! Nothing kills a game faster than lurking}

Quote from: Deathsword on April 30, 2013, 06:26:08 pm

Extend. I simply can't post today.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

This is what I mean about you not scumhunting. it is noteworthy that you didn't target ranger until he was practically screaming "i'm scum" by refusing to follow through on showing why he was suspicious of borno.

borno, you arn't off the hook either. here's yours.

Spoiler: borno's day2 posts (click to show/hide)

Quote from: borno on April 19, 2013, 06:07:26 pm

PFP:
Wow, I can't believe that just happened. Sorry IG.

Quote from: borno on April 24, 2013, 02:19:23 am

Sorry, forgot about this.

Quote from: borno on April 24, 2013, 02:26:04 am

EBWODP:
*Sorry, forgot about this. Will make post soon.

Spoiler: Borno's day3 posts (click to show/hide)

Quote from: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Sorry for the lurkyness everyone, I'll try to redeem myself today.
Late RangerCado:

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm

Borno: You along with IG, Griff, and Nerjin didn't vote Day 1. IG and Griff turned up dead and town so i can't ask them why but you i can. So, why didn't you vote? And what are your current reads? You haven't posted much so you must have something.

I unvoted Griffionday because I thought that he was town. I didn't vote after because the game had surprise ended before I could get a read on anyone else.
Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

Quote from: borno on April 28, 2013, 08:05:31 am

Sorry if I appear to be lurking, sometimes I'm busy in the weekends. I should be able to make a post tomorrow after school.

Quote from: borno on April 29, 2013, 04:43:50 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.

---

Anywho, first thing's first.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.

---

Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Quote from: borno on May 01, 2013, 01:24:14 am

Extend while I wait for everyone else. Who's the lurker now, huh?!

Borno, you're passive-lurking, except the bandwagon jump on day3 over noobtells you've done nothing since day1.
if this weren't MYLO I'd be calling for a policy-lynch on you on the spot for that.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 07, 2013, 10:04:26 am

Quote

GM: are there hammers this game?

No.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 03:06:05 pm

Quote

Shinigami: what do you think of the lack of roles this game? what is your opinion of Borno's passive lurking vs Deathsword's active lurking? why are you, the newest person here other than myself, the one that is actively scumhunting the most?

There are roles. Ranger was a role blocker so you have that to ponder. I believe that passive lurking is better than active lurking. I try to post regularly and scumhunt regularly to try to keep the game going. The entire point of mafia is to either scumhunt or to point fingers if you are the mafia. If I wasn't active here this place would be a ghost forum.

---

Deathsword- I am going to be honest. You look scummier to me than borno. I know that it was a long way back but first impressions stick. On day one the people that I observed to be the scummiest were you in number 1, and ranger and swordsmith tied for second. My opinions are different now because of how you acted over day 2 and day 3. However Lenglon is raising a good point and is bringing you to the center of my vision. My question for you is joining the game as an IC, what were you expecting from the greens, did they meat your expectations and as an IC what do you recommend we do? I'm curious if you plan to rally us and try to CONQUER ALL EVIL! or do you have a better plan?

---

Borno- We are on lylo... -___- this is a kind of serious situation game wise... where are ya?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2013, 03:53:11 pm

First, as to why I haven't posted yesterday: My home was completely powerless (as was the rest of the city and the neighbouring cities) for the whole day.

Also huge post due to huge quote number

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 06, 2013, 06:46:19 pm

You know. I think specter is out as far as being scum goes. It is probably just a case of RL getting in the way. So we should look at his replacement neutral/ town. I suggest we start thinking of what is going on with everything now. The number one suspect that I had was town and as I said specter is out for me. So that leaves borno and death sword as my suspects.

Why do you think Spectr/Replacement is town/null? Reasons please.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 06, 2013, 06:46:19 pm

We are also on LaLo and my opinion as to why the scum didn't night kill is because we are on LaLo no matter what and this leaves more suspects.

We are not in LyLo (and it's LyLo and not LaLo). We are at MyLo. That means if we mislynch, we lose. A no lynch would leave us in LyLo, otherwise the game ends today.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

deathsword ALSO reads as scum to me because he's being ineffective and is an IC so can be held to a higher standard, no hard pressure on anyone for days, pretty much active lurking, and bandwagoned on swordsmith with no real questions.

I made a complete case on swordsmith, if he didn't feel like saying anything to that, it was his call. Not in the quote, but my posts are usually small, I am not verbose (Tiruin is an example of someone who is). Sometimes you do not need to have had any previous interaction with someone to notice scummy behaviour. He may have flipped town, but the things I pointed out were genuinely scummy and thus deserved a vote.

{To define a bandwagon: to vote for someone already in the lead to be lynched. This may or may not be scummy. A vote with no reason or very weak/lazy ones is scummy. One with actual reasons/a case is not}

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?

I have to reread, but as it stands now you are null (your predecessor vanished and you just replaced),

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

why haven't you been hunting?

University is serious business. However, if you notice there hasn't been a single day where I haven't built an actual case on someone. The definition of hunting often varies from player to player, my own is that cases count as hunting, as the targeted player often reacts to that.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

why haven't you been prodding the other players for NOT hunting?

They have been hunting. Most of those that haven't been were replaced. Last day I pressured borno, which then caused him to hunt.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

what is your opinion on borno specifically? why have you let him off so easily for mistaking noobtells for scumtells?

Could you provide an example where I did what you accuse me of in the bolded part?

The first part of the quoted text: my opinion on borno is affected by meta (explained below), for I have played with him before. If he lurks in the endgame (now), then that to me is scummy for he once lurked to victory as scum.

{Meta is how a player are expected to behave due to previous experience. Tiruin's meta is that she will make huge verbose posts and may be misunderstood due to that, Dariush's is that he will rage at the slightest provocation, etc}

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

how do you plan to do this? show me please.

You would simply need to go through the thread, find out every single thing scummy made by one of the players and present that. If they had little interaction with the lynched scum (for one must have been lynched in a 3-player-lylo), then point that out as well.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Borno: why have you been lurking so hard ever since day 1? you were active and useful then, but haven't done much since. why haven't you taken the initiative since griffon pressured you back on day 1. why have you only asked shinigami a single question since he replaced in?

Quote from: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

really? that's all you have to ask him? ever? not even a single RVS question?

{RVS questions are rarely asked to replacements. Instead the questions are about the players opinion on his/her predecessor's actions and what has happened so far}

This is getting too big, I'll make another post.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2013, 04:09:28 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 03:06:05 pm

Deathsword- I am going to be honest. You look scummier to me than borno. I know that it was a long way back but first impressions stick. On day one the people that I observed to be the scummiest were you in number 1, and ranger and swordsmith tied for second. My opinions are different now because of how you acted over day 2 and day 3. However Lenglon is raising a good point and is bringing you to the center of my vision. My question for you is joining the game as an IC, what were you expecting from the greens, did they meat your expectations and as an IC what do you recommend we do? I'm curious if you plan to rally us and try to CONQUER ALL EVIL! or do you have a better plan?

I'd like to note that I was extremely sick D1, to the point where I asked to be replaced in all other mafia games I was in. But to answer your question: many of you are doing quite well and I recommend you stick around (those that replaced should at least join another BM (even if they join other games as well) so you can experience and learn how to deal with RVS), frankly I was expecting far less activity at the end of this game, where we are at now, as in BMs people tend to just vanish when the game hits this stage. No I will not become Glorious Leader and direct you to triumph. I will play as I normally do, build cases as I normally do. I am accustomed to be considered one of the most scummy players in the game, as that happens a lot.

Is there any other way to find scum other than ye olde scumhunting? No. Different people having different methods, but the result must be the same: finding scum.

Lenglon: Are you basing your scumhunting method on that of any other player (not necessarily in this game)? If so, who and why?

Also, do you have any other evidence on anyone other than accusations of not hunting and lurking?

Alsoalso, while I think borno is scummy, I do not believe his accusations against swordsmith were scummy. He built an actual good case on him (after some pressure from everyone).

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 05:01:51 pm

Deeathsword- something that I find very interesting is that you actually defended practicaly every single person in your last post. It is as though you want to look neutral. You did not make any real movement of scum hunting either. The only thing you did along the lines of which is makeing a very week case against Lenglon. While you claim to scumhunt you have hardly done that. You also said that you are often scummy but that is just an easy excuse to make others dismiss any scummy actions you have (unless it's ovious.)

---

Also, if we are on MyLo as Deathsword said, if we don't Lynch anyone and let the mafia take one of us wouldn't we be in a better position. There would be a 1/3 chance of getting it right instead of a 1/4 chance of getting it right and we could really crack down and focus on the others. Just an idea.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 05:22:35 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 07, 2013, 04:09:28 pm

Lenglon: Are you basing your scumhunting method on that of any other player (not necessarily in this game)? If so, who and why?

Also, do you have any other evidence on anyone other than accusations of not hunting and lurking?

My scumhunting technique is mostly my own, although I have paid the most attention to Tiruin's posts. Wondering what was keeping Tiruin busy and away from ER is how i ended up on the mafia board in the first place,and why I've paid her posts the most attention.

I have a large amount of WIFOM fuel i'm digging through, but i dont really want to present it until I can form it into something coherent that cannot be dismissed with a simple "that's what scum wants you to think" I would like to avoid muddying the waters and keep it to myself. as for other evidence than simple lack of action? well, there's the noobtell and bandwagoning issue I'm detailing out below.

---

Quote from: Deathsword link=topic=124597.msg4231727#msg4231727 date=1 a367959991

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?

I have to reread, but as it stands now you are null (your predecessor vanished and you just replaced),

Riiiight, but what are your reads on everyone else? I understand why you wouldn't have a read on me, new person and all, but I want to know what you think of borno, and especially shinigami.

Quote from: Deathsword link=topic=124597.msg4231727#msg4231727 date=1 a367959991

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

what is your opinion on borno specifically? why have you let him off so easily for mistaking noobtells for scumtells?

Could you provide an example where I did what you accuse me of in the bolded part?

the case on swordsmith was based mostly on noobtells in my eyes. Yes, he was playing badly, but it's a common normal mistake to make as a new player. being defensive is a common new player mistake. The really odd part about it that bothered me was that you didn't give him the same forgiveness you showed Ranger. Ranger gave away that he was scum by not attacking, and failing to keep promises. your reaction to this was to pressure vote him (which was deserved) but rather than present a case on him you merely said:

Quote

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Looking at your Day2 posts, I do not see where you formed a proper case on Ranger. in fact the only thing you said about him, at all, was that quote up there. the entire rest of your Day2 posts were answering questions and 

Quote

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

that's it. that is not scumhunting, that's not presenting a case, that is doing the obvious thing. in fact all you did was avoid giving out a massive scumtell by not voting for obvious lying scum.

that discrepancy is a double-standard. you were being nice to your scumbuddy, and giving him a chance to redeem himself. you pretty much directly told him what he needed to be doing, and his failure to do it forced you to bus him.

now then, on day3, did you scumhunt? nope. look at the timestamps on your day3 posts. you didn't say ANYTHING until after the swordsmith had given up and walked away. you didn't follow through on your accusation to borno, you didn't question shinigami, you've done almost nothing the entire game.

Spoiler: the posts in question (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Agh. Need to pay more attention to this. Bay12 suggestion games are such amusing reads, though...

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

Ah. I assumed that because of the GM mentioning it that you were specifically aware of the scumteam in this game, mostly that you might know who the scumpartner was or that you could be subbing in for them. You did still offer to sub in before Cado was lynched, though. Since you knew he was scum and was still in play, why would you sub in for another player?

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

I would like to mention to everyone that I have no idea where Spectr is and he hasn't posted in a while. Am I missing something or has he been lurking? In fact, he hasn't said a word since I got here. Come on out, I don't bite... much 

---

Borno. What's up? Are you just going to let everyone see you as an active lurker? You should try to scum hunt, or at least clear your name otherwise you might loose even my trust. Do you have any suspects right now? I'd love to here your ideas.

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

Quote from: borno on April 29, 2013, 04:43:50 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.

---

Anywho, first thing's first.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.

---

Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 05:44:45 pm

Just re-read my own post and i realized that i never went into any real detail about bandwagoning on sword. You were the third one to post on the subject, you included a vote, you didn't include new content, you didn't ask a single question, and you abandoned your earlier questions and suspicions to do it. that looks like bandwagoning scum to me.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 05:53:09 pm

... i miss the modify button so much, that's going to be a painful habit to break. sorry about the triple-post (again), i'll try to avoid a repeat of this.

anyways the other issue is that wasn't the first time you've done it. you were part of the group that lynched IG (who deserved it, even as town), part of the group that lynched ranger, and part of the group that lynched swordsmith. you've never been the primary questioner, never cast the first vote, but you've always voted with the biggest group. that's classic bandwagon.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 08:26:26 pm

*sigh*
Excuse me a moment folks, but this is frankly inexcusable.
unvote
Borno: I've been tracking when you log on, you've been active many times since the day started and haven't said a single word, Post or die.

GM: When does the day end? somehow i think

Quote from: Scelly9 on May 06, 2013, 06:27:09 pm

As you wake up in the morning, you look around hurriedly. After a quick headcount, you realize that you are all here. Nobody has died tonight. The good mood settles back to depression as the day moves on and a new board is draw up in chalk. Four names left.

Day will end 5/6/2013 at 18:00 GMT. Approximately 72 hours left.

Spectr needs a replacement, anyone up for it?

the date listed here could just possibly be wrong.

also, could we get a prod on borno?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on May 07, 2013, 08:35:56 pm

Scelly's not on so i went and prodded borno... I hope thats allowed...

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 07, 2013, 08:42:19 pm

Day will end 5/9/2013 at 18:00 GMT. Approximately 40 hours left.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 11:00:28 pm

HAHA! Ranger isn't actually dead? Or maybe he is a zombie~~~ A zombie cado.. A ZADO DUN DUN DUUUUN

---

On a serious note I am going to say extend because I really want something to actually happen. No more talking to a wall. Borno! Deathsword! Come on out and play~ <(^_^)>

---

Lenglon- I can't really think of any questions to go around asking right now but if you want you can ask me something. I havn't been a target really and no one has really started a conversation with me. I'm getting bored of the lack of conversation...

I also just thought of a mini question for you why in this post

Quote

Quote

Quote from: Deathsword link=topic=124597.msg4231727#msg4231727 date=1 a367959991

Quote

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm
Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?

Quote

I have to reread, but as it stands now you are null (your predecessor vanished and you just replaced),

Riiiight, but what are your reads on everyone else? I understand why you wouldn't have a read on me, new person and all, but I want to know what you think of borno, and especially shinigami.

did you ask especially me?

Curiosity killed the cat~

(I tried to snip the quotes but I don't know how to properly do it. If there are any inconsistencies I apologize.)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 11:29:50 pm

Shinigami:
no problem, nested quotes can be difficult to work with, especially if you have to pick them out of some giant post.

the reason i asked especially you is because you've been around the least. I've got less information about you than the other two.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 05:01:51 pm

Also, if we are on MyLo as Deathsword said, if we don't Lynch anyone and let the mafia take one of us wouldn't we be in a better position. There would be a 1/3 chance of getting it right instead of a 1/4 chance of getting it right and we could really crack down and focus on the others. Just an idea.

I disagree with this, because I believe who the scum would kill in any case is quite obvious.

Case 1:Deathsword scum: kill either Shinigami or Lenglon, doesn't matter which, leave alive whichever one looks easier to mislead, Lynch Borno at LYLO.
Case 2:Borno scum: kill either Shinigami or Lenglon, doesn't matter which, leave alive whichever one looks easier to mislead, Lynch Deathsword at LYLO.
Case 3:Shinigami scum: kill Lenglon, Lynch Borno at LYLO.
Case 4:Lenglon scum: kill Shinigami, Lynch Borno at LYLO.

why lynch Borno at lylo if the scum is you or me? because he's painting himself as scum from head to toe, and would be the easy one for scum to cause a mislynch on. the way i see it two eyes are better than one, and (assuming i treat you as confirmed town) since we're going to have to decide if it's Borno or Deathsword that is scum here (i can ignore myself in my reasoning) it doesn't matter if we wait. no matter who the scum is, we already know who tonight's NK will be. there is no reason to bother waiting for it.

something i'd like to know though:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 03:06:05 pm

Deathsword- I am going to be honest. You look scummier to me than borno. I know that it was a long way back but first impressions stick. On day one the people that I observed to be the scummiest were you in number 1

I was confused by this quote. during my re-read Deathsword didn't look scummy on day 1. where he looked scummy to me was mostly on Day 3, especially his last post of Day3 where he moved to lynch Swordsmith. could you please tell me why he seemed scummy on Day 1?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 11:36:51 pm

oh, and sure, although i think it's a bit early to bother with it, extend.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 08, 2013, 06:50:35 am

Lenglon:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Borno: why have you been lurking so hard ever since day 1? you were active and useful then, but haven't done much since. why haven't you taken the initiative since griffon pressured you back on day 1. why have you only asked shinigami a single question since he replaced in?

Quote from: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

really? that's all you have to ask him? ever? not even a single RVS question?

Firstly: Yes, my lurking has been inexcusable. I've been planning to make up for it, but apparently I broke my promise. Procrastination is a powerful demon indeed.

Secondly: Yes. It's not RVS anymore, you don't ask RVS questions. What I found odd was that you say I'm scummy for not doing this... And then not do it yourself?


Deathsword:
I think that your reasons for voting swordsmith were a bit naff. You took what everyone else had said and then put it into different words. Also, the post (the post which would kill someone) was about 10 lines long. How do you explain this?

Once again, I apologise. I'll try to be more active from now on, but I might be a bit busy for the next few days. For now though, I'll extend and make another post tomorrow.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 08, 2013, 07:50:12 am

Borno:
What was, and still is, scummy, is that you haven't been asking him questions of any kind, RVS or not. And that is something that I have been doing.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 07, 2013, 11:29:50 pm

Shinigami:
something i'd like to know though:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 07, 2013, 03:06:05 pm

Deathsword- I am going to be honest. You look scummier to me than borno. I know that it was a long way back but first impressions stick. On day one the people that I observed to be the scummiest were you in number 1

I was confused by this quote. during my re-read Deathsword didn't look scummy on day 1. where he looked scummy to me was mostly on Day 3, especially his last post of Day3 where he moved to lynch Swordsmith. could you please tell me why he seemed scummy on Day 1?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Shinigami: what do you think of the lack of roles this game? what is your opinion of Borno's passive lurking vs Deathsword's active lurking? why are you, the newest person here other than myself, the one that is actively scumhunting the most?

It's still inadequate questioning, but at least it's something.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 08, 2013, 11:58:36 am

Day has been extended 48 hours
Day will end 5/13/2013 at 18:00 GMT.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 08, 2013, 05:52:05 pm

Lenglon- It was just intuition that I didn't trust deathsword during RVS. I've been looking it over and nothing stands out other than his lurking. But my sentiment still stands.

---

A quote from borno

Quote

Lastly, Everyone:
If everyone could present their reads, that would be grand. Here are mine:

Griffionday: Seems towny, answers questions and generally helps with the scum hunting. A bit Defensive though

Nerjin: More of a null-read on, hasn't really posted much

RangerCado: Null read, leaning a little town

Deathsword: Also null, doesn't seem to have done much so far

Swordsmith: Leaning town, gives good questions and thorough answers, if sometimes incorrect

Okami: Slightly scummy, rather verbose and lurky (RL issues)

IG: Slightly scummy, lazy, lurks, active lurking although he says he hates active lurking

A quote from specter

Quote

Griffionday - Null to twon
RangerCado - Null to slight town
borno - Slighty leaning towards scum as he seems a bit quick to attack, and doesn't seem to scum hunt only defend himself.
Imperial Guardsman - Scum, as you don't seem to posting all that much, and when you do you don't seem to try to answer any questions too well.
Okami No Rei - Null to slight scum as he was missing for a while
Swordsmith - Slight town
Nerjin - Slight Town
DeathSword - Null

I think that's everyone

A quote from scelly just before the lynching of IG

Quote

Griffionday (0) --
RangerCado (0) --
borno (2) -- Okami No Rei, RangerCado
Imperial Guardsman (3) -- Spectr, Deathsword, swordsmith04
Okami No Rei (0) --
swordsmith04 (0) --
Spectr (0) --
Nerjin (0) --
Deathsword (0) --

Not Voting: Imperial Guardsman, Nerjin, Griffionday, Borno

Day will end at 18/04/2013 (DD/MM/YYYY) at 18:00 GMT. 17 minutes remaining.

---

I would like to say that the first two quotes I really find fascinating. Hearing opinions on everyone is good and borno you seem pretty good at giving your opinion. I would like to hear it again but in more detail seeing as there are fewer players. In fact if everyone could do this I would appreciate it.

Second, notice that even 17 minutes before the end of D1 Ranger still had a vote for Borno who could have easily been lynched due to the skepticism of others. If borno is scum, wouldn't that mean he had a chance to lynch his own buddy who wasn't even in trouble on day one? Seems fishy.

Well, that seems good for now. I will post a reads post when I get back from a workout. PEACE

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 08, 2013, 06:31:23 pm

Shinigami:My reads? Um, I'm trying to apply as much pressure as I can on both Borno and Deathsword. If I acknowledge which one feels scummier to me I think the other one won't be pressured enough to make mistakes. My read on you is Mild Town, and both of them feel scummy to me. one of them does feel scummier to me than the other.

Deathsword: could you please paste a link to the game where Borno "Lurked to Victory"? I would like to review it for building a meta-based case.

Borno: Please post more content, your question to me was decent, but your reply was essentially a repeat of Deathsword's

Quote

{RVS questions are rarely asked to replacements. Instead the questions are about the players opinion on his/her predecessor's actions and what has happened so far}

and your question to Deathsword was a repeat of what I'm asking him with slightly different, and vaguer, wording. It also contradicts the fact that Deathsword's post was several days before the end of Day 3, if you had questions or issues with it, why didn't you ask him then?

I'll leave my vote on you for now, because I don't think you've posted enough actual content to be off the hook just yet, and there's no hammers so i don't have to worry about speedlynch shenanigans.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 08, 2013, 10:22:09 pm

Lenglon- town
Spectr did nothing to lead me into suspecting him and you seem to be leading a pretty strong case in this. The only second guesses on you I have are when I question if you just play a good scum game. You seem quite intelligent so I worry that you may be good at leading people into thinking what I am now. But you know. That's really all I have on you.

---

Borno- mild scum
You seemed too strong at the beginning of the game to have been scum. You have been presenting scumier actions recently which makes you a *Blip* on my radar. However, after reviewing your old posts you really seem to just be a player with a bad case of active lurking.
(I don't have a tab to copy/paste off of right now but you were one of the first to attack Cado, when there was nothing even to base your attack on. This leads me to feel like you are just an ordinary miner.

---

Deathsword- Scummier but still mild.
My general feelings toward you right now are pretty simple. All your actions seem to be fairly two dimensional with no original reasoning, meaning or strength behind them.

---

That's all for now.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 09, 2013, 03:28:38 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 08, 2013, 06:31:23 pm

Borno: Please post more content, your question to me was decent, but your reply was essentially a repeat of Deathsword's

Quote

{RVS questions are rarely asked to replacements. Instead the questions are about the players opinion on his/her predecessor's actions and what has happened so far}

and your question to Deathsword was a repeat of what I'm asking him with slightly different, and vaguer, wording. It also contradicts the fact that Deathsword's post was several days before the end of Day 3, if you had questions or issues with it, why didn't you ask him then?

It was still what I thought of your question though. Yes, Deathsword did say it before me, but are you saying you'd prefer me to not answer at all than say my opinion if someone else has said it before me? Same goes for the question I asked him.

And the reason I'm only asking this now is because I didn't exactly find it too scummy at the time. However, looking back, it does seem to be pretty scummy, which is why I'm attacking him now.

Anyway, onto my reads.

Lenglon: Seems pretty towny to me. He's a barrel full 'o' activeness, and I like that. Doing well so far in terms of scumhunting too

Shinigami_King: Also pretty towny. Not as active as Lenglon, but seems good at scumhunting.

Deathsword: Seems the scummiest player here so far. Pretty lurky (although I can't say much), and his post on swordsmith was pretty much parroting what every else had said. Perhaps swordsmith crafted deathsword badly and so deathsword resents him for it, or maybe deathsword was feeling a little lazy as Mafia and wanted a quick lynch. I personally think that it's the latter though.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 08, 2013, 10:22:09 pm

Deathsword- Scummier but still mild.
My general feelings toward you right now are pretty simple. All your actions seem to be fairly two dimensional with no original reasoning, meaning or strength behind them.

Wait wait wait wait. Don't make me go back on my words. Is this it? Really? You make two sentences for your case to lynch someone? Please elaborate your case, or I may be forced to change my vote.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 09, 2013, 12:23:29 pm

Working my way backwards through the thread

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 03:28:38 am

Deathsword: Seems the scummiest player here so far. Pretty lurky (although I can't say much), and his post on swordsmith was pretty much parroting what every else had said. Perhaps swordsmith crafted deathsword badly and so deathsword resents him for it, or maybe deathsword was feeling a little lazy as Mafia and wanted a quick lynch. I personally think that it's the latter though.

Parroting? No. Let's see everyone's cases on swordsmith:

Spoiler: My case (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Deathsword on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

Spoiler: Borno (click to show/hide)

Quote from: borno on April 29, 2013, 04:43:50 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.

---

Anywho, first thing's first.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.

---

Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Spoiler: Shinigami (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:57:23 pm

Quote

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

If a scumtell could only ever be utilized in one case, then nobody would ever have more than one vote against them. Bandwagoning is a scumtell; agreeing that someone is scum isn't necessarily one. You might notice that I voiced suspicion of RangerCado before Okami No Rei did. If you didn't, the relevant posts are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196195#msg4196195) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196656#msg4196656).

Now I've got a question for you. Why would you try to sub into a game where you already knew who one of the scum were?

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

---

Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

If you look at it, all 3 cases were similar? Why? Because swordsmith was scummy. He was town, yes, but that doesn't make his behaviour less scum-like. Not lynching a scummy person because they might be town is simply stupid, borno.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 08, 2013, 06:31:23 pm

Deathsword: could you please paste a link to the game where Borno "Lurked to Victory"? I would like to review it for building a meta-based case.

My memory isn't what it once was. I was thinking of BM 35, where scum boltur (which I insist on confusing with borno, that was in that game (and also lurked)) lurked to victory. Borno was scum on BM 34, where he lurked but was replaced with always-scum Tiruin.

---

Reads:
Shinigami: Town, quite a solid player, have yet to see a scum-tell. Also, see below.
Borno: Scum, is trying to drive a bullshit case on me being lurky (while he lurked like a champ), even though I repeatedly stated throught the thread that for the first half of the game I was quite sick, and, most importantly, accusing me of parroting, despite that all 3 cases on swordsmith were similar, including his own (which was not the first, shinigami's was).
Lenglon: Null, clearly intelligent, hasn't dropped any scumtells, but gut feeling makes me suspicious of him still.

Also, I am a doctor. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 12:38:15 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 09, 2013, 12:23:29 pm

Also, I am a doctor. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

I can understand why you protected Nerjin night 1, and shinigami night 3, but why did you protect swordsmith night 2?

and thank you very much for claiming doctor, it's making things much clearer.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 09, 2013, 01:14:43 pm

As far as scum targeting goes, scum prefers to hit players that haven't been neither scummy nor town-ish. Scum only tend to kill strong/active/agressive players when it would make someone else look bad. Of course, most players know this, so it ends up being WIFOM. swordsmith looked like such a player to me at the time, thus why I protected him. Things changed during D3, of course.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 09, 2013, 03:37:56 pm

Welp, I don't know what to think anymore... I'll be back after I ponder what has happened a bit.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

Requesting a Massclaim: I want confirmation of Deathsword's doctor claim, and need to know if anyone is going to be claiming anything else before presenting my lynch case on who I think is scum. Shinigami do not claim until Borno has. Shinigami is the only person we all agree is town, so he should claim last so we can catch anyone who Fakeclaims. remember there is no more than one person who has any given power role, if someone claims your power role they are scum. I am a Vanilla Townie.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 09, 2013, 04:28:24 pm

Quote from: Deathsword link=topic=124597.msg4235990#msg4235990 date=1368120209
Also, [u

I am a doctor[/u]. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

Yes, thanks for clearing that up. Everyone, we have found the scum. I am the actual doctor. Finally I can explain my lurking. Mostly it has been because I felt kinda bad for not protecting griffionday n1  :-\ I was deciding whether to protect him or nerjin, and I thought that the scum would kill the ICs first, knowing full well that there was every possibility that he could be scum. N2 I protected deathsword, although that was a waste of a protect as he is huge scum. N3 I protected shinigami too. So I guess that Shinigami is confirmed town now, unless if the scum no killed, which quite frankly doesn't make sense in my opinion.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 09, 2013, 12:23:29 pm

Borno: Scum, is trying to drive a bullshit case on me being lurky (while he lurked like a champ), even though I repeatedly stated throught the thread that for the first half of the game I was quite sick, and, most importantly, accusing me of parroting, despite that all 3 cases on swordsmith were similar, including his own (which was not the first, shinigami's was).

You seem to have forgotten to read what was in the parenthesis. And about the parroting? It's because your case was three lines long. You were making the vote to kill someone and didn't even put any effort into it at all, because you wanted a quick and easy mislynch.

---

Everyone: I'll make more of a case on deathsword when I get home from school, but this is all I have for now. It'd be interesting to see what shinigam's case is though.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:37:24 pm

Welp, that was easy. Borno is scum. I'll present the lynch case later tonight when I have my notes with me.

Borno: Thank you for your cooperation.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 07:40:50 pm

Scratch that, RL is getting in the way. The short version:
Lurking, weak cases, acting almost purely for defense, Rangercaddo voted for deathsword at the end of day 2, every NK has been for the most active player of the most recent day, including last night (shinigami is only alive because of deathsword), being too nice to me, and process of elimination, deathsword's reaction to me throwing every accusation i could think of at him (which is normally a scumtell btw, and i think it's why he wasn't sure what to make of me) was a perfectly town reaction. borno however all of day 4 was basically doing exactly what i wanted him too, and nothing more. meaning he was acting purely out of defensive instinct and not actually scumhunting.

sorry about the bad formatting, i'm in a bit of a hurry.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 09, 2013, 10:08:53 pm

Scelly, would you kindly show the vote count. I would like to see it before I make any upcoming statements.

Also yes, I am vanilla town.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 09, 2013, 10:21:18 pm

Borno (2): Lenglon, Deathsword
Shinigami_King (0):
Lenglon (0):
Deathsword (2): Shinigami_King, Borno,

Day will end 5/14/2013 at 18:00 GMT. Mod extended 24 hours to account for the fact I will not be available to end on Monday. Approximately 60:00 Hours left

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 09, 2013, 11:14:38 pm

I want everyone to re-read pages 11-12-13. There are a few things that I feel necessary to point out.

When I was making my case against swordswith one of the things I was looking for was ranger having a quarrel with his scum buddy to divert suspicion. Well if you take a look, deathsword was also on the list of back and forth attacks. as seen here

Quote

A quote from ranger

Quote

Okay, lets do this thing.

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post. And i agreed with Griffs points but that doesn't mean i was taking cues from him. He left off on Borno but i decided (no matter how weak it may have been) to stay on him.

SwordSmith: What are your thoughts on being the deciding vote on IG and him showing up Town?

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

Borno + Spectr: Where are you guys?

Nerjin: You've posted twice since Griffs NK. The first was saying people should get back to the game and the second talking with the Mod. What are your thoughts on Griffs NK and do you have a suspect?
My reads so far:
Okami: Neutral leaning town- Hasn't done anything that i could call scummy besides trying to be the scum IC.

SwordSmith: Null- Need to read more on him.

Borno: Neutral leaning scum: Suspected D1 but hasn't posted anything recent to look at.

Nerjin: Null- Need to read more on him.

DeathSwrod: Neutral leaning scum: Had the chance to change his RVS vote but didn't, hasn't contributed much.

Spectr: Null- Hasn't done enought to get a good read on. Left his vote on IG in RVS then disappeared.
Thats what i have for now, did i miss anything?

A vote from deathsword

Quote

Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

Another from cado

Quote

Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-
Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

Borno: You along with IG, Griff, and Nerjin didn't vote Day 1. IG and Griff turned up dead and town so i can't ask them why but you i can. So, why didn't you vote? And what are your current reads? You haven't posted much so you must have something.

Nerjin: Same thing, why didn't you place a vote or request an extension?

Okami: Okay, so your voting me and you have made good points on my behaviour. However, do you have anything on anyone else? Tunneling me isn't going to help the Town too much so branch out to others. What are your reads on everyone? If i'm scum, who do you thinks my partner?

Spectr: You as well. Anyone else popping up on your radar besides me?

And here is one more from death

Quote

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm
Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm
Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-
Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?
His complete dissapearance after making what was essentially one extremely shallow post divided in five to look like he was doing something was scummy. He acted in a scummy way (in his 1-post-in-five) and then vanished. As for if scum has been killed for lynching D1: I do not know, but I would bet on it having happened at least once.

Ranger has one more post but it carries no weight

---

Deathsword- I see you as a stronger scum than ever. I am going to call you out as the fake doctor and here is what I have to say.

If Borno had claimed town I would have gone for him and I would have begun to start  suspecting Lenglon more.

---

Lenglon- you are smart and dangerous. You have strong reasoning and you are reasonably good at getting on peoples good side. (If I get NKed tonight and we have a draw for lynching, don't dismiss Lenglon as town just yet. Though he still is much less suspicious especially after this doctor fiasco. I think the reason I still worry at all is because you are capable of strong gameplay and getting people to follow.)

---

The reason I would go after borno if he claimed vanilla is that he had no back up or cover from our suspicion and no one else was going to claim doctor. That means death would be reliable. However if there is a little falling out here who knows who is scum and who is our doctor.

If everything is decided on the upcoming lynch then we have a 50-50 chance to get it right assuming one of our lead suspects are the scum. If not we may be able to dig deeper.

Two more things.

• Borno. Your defenses SUCK (in my personal opinion, please take no offense. It's all part of the game nothing personal) everything you have been saying makes you sound scummier. Don't complain about two lines of text by the way. It was just an overview of what I was saying the entire time... I just lost my train of thought... I was going to say more.. I'll leave it at that... Well this is awkward.
• This is important! I know there are some flaws but if we keep the lynch tied then no one will die. Then we just ask borno to be my doctor and deathsword to be Lenglon's doctor. If anyone dies, their doctor is the scum. If the opposing doctor dies then I guess we know who the scum is. Like I said, I know there are some major flaws with this but I want to hear all opinions.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 01:20:22 am

according to my timezone I should be asleep right now, but meh. Anyway, there is only one scum alive. If there were two living scum the game would be over. You are confirmed town and so am I because we have a claim and counter-claim going on with only one scum left. Our current dilemma is a simplified version of the one we had at the start of the day. Is the scum Deathsword or Borno?

your doctoring plan will work in case we forget to extend in time, but this game will never end until we take a gamble and lynch one of them.

the case you just presented that is based on Ranger's actions is an example of WIFOM. WIFOM can be used in an argument but you need to have very strong grounds for it, amoung other things you need to know which cup the scum would put poison in.

In this case, we DO know which cup. look at the history of nightkills. each night the kill selection has followed a very simple rule: the person who is the most active scumhunter dies. next, look at borno and deathsword's questions and defenses, not for how valid they are, but for how DIRECT they are. borno has ALWAYS used a direct rebuttal, a direct accusation, or otherwise always taken direct action. now look at deathsword's patterns. deathsword is nowhere near as direct in his responses. he often says stuff that could be summarized as "true, but <other side thing> makes it more complicated and not actually meaningful". this is a perfectly valid style, but it doesn't match with the thought process used by the person selecting the nightkill targets.

WIFOM is always a very dangerous thing to base your arguments on, but when you start focusing on the scum's interactions with people that's pretty much always what you get. If you still think Deathsword is the scum and want to keep using WIFOM arguments, please show how deathsword's thought patterns match with the nightkills and with Ranger's final acts. in this case you are not looking for scumtells, but for how many moves ahead he would plan if this were a game of chess, and how many moves ahead he thinks his opponents would be planning if this were a game of chess.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2013, 01:47:20 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 07:40:50 pm

Scratch that, RL is getting in the way. The short version:
Lurking, weak cases, acting almost purely for defense, Rangercaddo voted for deathsword at the end of day 2, every NK has been for the most active player of the most recent day, including last night (shinigami is only alive because of deathsword), being too nice to me, and process of elimination, deathsword's reaction to me throwing every accusation i could think of at him (which is normally a scumtell btw, and i think it's why he wasn't sure what to make of me) was a perfectly town reaction. borno however all of day 4 was basically doing exactly what i wanted him too, and nothing more. meaning he was acting purely out of defensive instinct and not actually scumhunting.

sorry about the bad formatting, i'm in a bit of a hurry.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2013, 01:48:15 am

EBWOP: I don't know what happened with that post. Here's what I meant to say:
Lenglon:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:37:24 pm

Welp, that was easy. Borno is scum. I'll present the lynch case later tonight when I have my notes with me.

Borno: Thank you for your cooperation.

Hmm. I'll admit that I don't look like the most towniest player right here, but before all you were voting me for was my lurking, which has stopped. What happened to your case on deathsword? Did it magically disappear because he claimed doctor? Or is it because he's an IC and I'm not? Maybe both?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 07:40:50 pm

Scratch that, RL is getting in the way. The short version:
Lurking, weak cases, acting almost purely for defense, Rangercaddo voted for deathsword at the end of day 2, every NK has been for the most active player of the most recent day, including last night (shinigami is only alive because of deathsword), being too nice to me, and process of elimination, deathsword's reaction to me throwing every accusation i could think of at him (which is normally a scumtell btw, and i think it's why he wasn't sure what to make of me) was a perfectly town reaction. borno however all of day 4 was basically doing exactly what i wanted him too, and nothing more. meaning he was acting purely out of defensive instinct and not actually scumhunting.

Let me tell you why you're wrong.
Lurking: Yes. I've been lurking, and I've told you why. It's my first time being a power-role as town, and I don't think I'm really accustomed to having the ability to save a player's life in my hands.
Weak cases: Bullshit. When have I made weak cases on anyone outside of RVS? If you're looking for weak cases, please direct your attention to our resident scum, Deathsword.
Acting almost purely for defense: Also Bullshit. While I haven't had the time to make a huge and complicated post, I have most certainly not been acting completely out of defence.
RangerCado voting for deathsword: ... Wow. We had a whole discussion on this D1, did you not read it? It seems Griffionday was right when he said although some scum may try to avoid attacking other scum-members, it's useful to read into their case anyway. Also there's a high possibility that he knew that he was doomed and decided he wanted to distance himself from his scumpartner by attacking him. It seems a little odd that he only attacked him at the end when it was assured he was going to die, isn't it?
NKs: I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying I'm mafia because every NK has been for active players? I don't really understand.
Being too nice to you: Hang on, what? How the hell have I been nice to you? If you mean by not attacking you, it's because I didn't think you were scum, and now I know that you aren't scum. However, if you don't want me to be nice to you, I'll be happy to oblige.
Deathsword's reaction: So you're saying he's town because he was nice to you, but I'm scum because of the very same reasons? The stupidity meter is going off the charts right now.

... And now you're saying I'm scum for doing what you want me to do? And then you say I don't scumhunt? Is this saying that you don't want me to scumhunt?  :P
But all emoticons aside, I think that your case is incredibly biased. I don't understand how you went straight from a vote for someone to saying that they're town outside RVS.
Shinigami_King:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 09, 2013, 11:14:38 pm

• This is important! I know there are some flaws but if we keep the lynch tied then no one will die. Then we just ask borno to be my doctor and deathsword to be Lenglon's doctor. If anyone dies, their doctor is the scum. If the opposing doctor dies then I guess we know who the scum is. Like I said, I know there are some major flaws with this but I want to hear all opinions.

That would probably be a good idea, were the mafia in question not an IC. As such he'd probably know to no-kill and we'll be back where we started, on MYLO.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 09, 2013, 11:14:38 pm

I want everyone to re-read pages 11-12-13. There are a few things that I feel necessary to point out.

When I was making my case against swordswith one of the things I was looking for was ranger having a quarrel with his scum buddy to divert suspicion. Well if you take a look, deathsword was also on the list of back and forth attacks. as seen here

Quote

A quote from ranger

Quote

Okay, lets do this thing.

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post. And i agreed with Griffs points but that doesn't mean i was taking cues from him. He left off on Borno but i decided (no matter how weak it may have been) to stay on him.

SwordSmith: What are your thoughts on being the deciding vote on IG and him showing up Town?

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

Borno + Spectr: Where are you guys?

Nerjin: You've posted twice since Griffs NK. The first was saying people should get back to the game and the second talking with the Mod. What are your thoughts on Griffs NK and do you have a suspect?
My reads so far:
Okami: Neutral leaning town- Hasn't done anything that i could call scummy besides trying to be the scum IC.

SwordSmith: Null- Need to read more on him.

Borno: Neutral leaning scum: Suspected D1 but hasn't posted anything recent to look at.

Nerjin: Null- Need to read more on him.

DeathSwrod: Neutral leaning scum: Had the chance to change his RVS vote but didn't, hasn't contributed much.

Spectr: Null- Hasn't done enought to get a good read on. Left his vote on IG in RVS then disappeared.
Thats what i have for now, did i miss anything?

A vote from deathsword

Quote

Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

Another from cado

Quote

Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-
Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?

Borno: You along with IG, Griff, and Nerjin didn't vote Day 1. IG and Griff turned up dead and town so i can't ask them why but you i can. So, why didn't you vote? And what are your current reads? You haven't posted much so you must have something.

Nerjin: Same thing, why didn't you place a vote or request an extension?

Okami: Okay, so your voting me and you have made good points on my behaviour. However, do you have anything on anyone else? Tunneling me isn't going to help the Town too much so branch out to others. What are your reads on everyone? If i'm scum, who do you thinks my partner?

Spectr: You as well. Anyone else popping up on your radar besides me?

And here is one more from death

Quote

Quote from: RangerCado on April 23, 2013, 01:04:17 pm
Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm
Ranger
Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.
Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.
The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?
He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm
Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.
He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.
-snip-
Death: Everything one at a time- See below for my questions to him. Yes its ironic but i'm a hypocritical person. Point taken. His behaviour... what? You said he made no points at all and i don't recall him posting anything after his mass of posts so how could his behaviour continually get scummy from there? The only thing i can think of is lurking but when has a scum ever been caught for lurking day 1?
His complete dissapearance after making what was essentially one extremely shallow post divided in five to look like he was doing something was scummy. He acted in a scummy way (in his 1-post-in-five) and then vanished. As for if scum has been killed for lynching D1: I do not know, but I would bet on it having happened at least once.

Ranger has one more post but it carries no

• Borno. Your defenses SUCK (in my personal opinion, please take no offense. It's all part of the game nothing personal) everything you have been saying makes you sound scummier. Don't complain about two lines of text by the way. It was just an overview of what I was saying the entire time... I just lost my train of thought... I was going to say more.. I'll leave it at that... Well this is awkward.

Sorry, I just didn't really feel the need to explain my apparently scummy actions to such a scumbag like him.
Deathsword:
Unfortunately there isn't much to go on for deathsword, as he's been sick and unable to post, however, notice how at the end of D1 he pops in to tell people that sometimes RVS votes turn into real votes. But he apparently didn't care that the other two didn't want to lynch him (or at least spectr didn't by the looks of his post the next day). It was pretty unICly in my opinion to let someone get killed without everyone's consent.
Also, I find it pretty funny that the two mafia posted in the gap between the vote count and the lynch for some reason.

Next, on the next day, the biggest post he managed to make was him jumping onto the ranger bandwagon. Then the next day the swordsmith bandwagon. Most of his posts seem to be him jumping on to bandwagons actually.
'Just post a five sentence long case on whoever has the most votes on them at the end of the day! What a genius plan! I both don't have to put any effort into this game, but it also helps to mislynch town players real quick so I can win!'

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2013, 01:58:54 am

Ninja'd be Lenglon.
Lenglon:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 01:20:22 am

In this case, we DO know which cup. look at the history of nightkills. each night the kill selection has followed a very simple rule: the person who is the most active scumhunter dies. next, look at borno and deathsword's questions and defenses, not for how valid they are, but for how DIRECT they are. borno has ALWAYS used a direct rebuttal, a direct accusation, or otherwise always taken direct action. now look at deathsword's patterns. deathsword is nowhere near as direct in his responses. he often says stuff that could be summarized as "true, but <other side thing> makes it more complicated and not actually meaningful". this is a perfectly valid style, but it doesn't match with the thought process used by the person selecting the nightkill targets.

Wait a moment. You know that being active and direct are two different things, right? As you say, I am direct, but not at all active, which is why I have survived so far.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 01:20:22 am

WIFOM is always a very dangerous thing to base your arguments on, but when you start focusing on the scum's interactions with people that's pretty much always what you get. If you still think Deathsword is the scum and want to keep using WIFOM arguments, please show how deathsword's thought patterns match with the nightkills and with Ranger's final acts. in this case you are not looking for scumtells, but for how many moves ahead he would plan if this were a game of chess, and how many moves ahead he thinks his opponents would be planning if this were a game of chess.

No, you should never base arguments on WIFOM. It's unreliable and scummy. And that thing about RangerCado is WIFOM too. I've explained why in my earlier post.

---

Really, the game's in Lenglon and Shinigami_King's hands now. We have to rely on them not to recreate that BM IV I mentioned earlier  :P

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 02:24:10 am

Lenglon's Evil side is happy. She has enjoyed playing with someone's life today. She has glorified in control of life and death. She has had a fine Maniacal Laugh today. She has been recently chided by Lenglon's Good side. She has complained to Shinigami lately. She has had a Plotting Session recently. She is tired. She has been accosted by foul vermin. She has been exposed to the elements recently. She took joy in slaughter lately. She admired a fine Torture Chamber recently. She enjoyed a fine meal recently. She confused a plaything recently. She annoyed a plaything recently.

an evil creature, intimately tied to a matching good creature, usefull in combat, high stress, and games of Mafia.

:P

((i DO normally keep the evil side locked up, but... well, just so you know, the average person's blood actually tastes quite salty.))

waiting on Deathsword

i'll see about getting that lynch case properly posted sometime when i'm not half-asleep. i'm really sorry for the horrible formatting of the thing. for now just ignore the part about Rangercaddo's vote to lynch deathsword. that particular piece of WIFOM is a weak argument that would take almost three paragraphs to properly explain.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2013, 07:21:34 am

Go home evil Lenglon, you're drunk.  :P

But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what deathsword makes up.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on May 10, 2013, 08:18:45 am

Spoiler: Formatting newbie tips :P (click to show/hide)

Quote

Your defenses SUCK (in my personal opinion, please take no offense. It's all part of the game nothing personal)

{If you're going to format something to emphasize, give the reasoning after game...}

@Those long quotes...

> Takes a short while to spot the first line header of a quote tag detailing the post link, and the [/quote] part. Delete everything in the quote if the whole post is relevant, then replace with a -snip- for brevity. Works much better on the scrolling.


...Lenglon, sorry. Never knew you were female D:

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 11:16:59 am

I'm waiting for your next post Deathsword. You're next post will likely decide the turn of this game.
I hope you make us proud...

---

Quote

Lenglon's Evil side is happy. She has enjoyed playing with someone's life today. She has glorified in control of life and death. She has had a fine Maniacal Laugh today. She has been recently chided by Lenglon's Good side. She has complained to Shinigami lately. She has had a Plotting Session recently. She is tired. She has been accosted by foul vermin. She has been exposed to the elements recently. She took joy in slaughter lately. She admired a fine Torture Chamber recently. She enjoyed a fine meal recently. She confused a plaything recently. She annoyed a plaything recently.

an evil creature, intimately tied to a matching good creature, usefull in combat, high stress, and games of Mafia.

This is just the best~

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 10, 2013, 01:56:52 pm

My next post will have to wait until tonight, I'll be busy for the next hours.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 10, 2013, 08:30:14 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 11:16:59 am

I'm waiting for your next post Deathsword. You're next post will likely decide the turn of this game.
I hope you make us disappointed so that we can lynch you already...

FTFY

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 09:59:20 pm

FTFY? sorry. My "Lingo" sucks

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 07:21:34 am

Go home evil Lenglon, you're drunk.  :P

I dont drink.

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 07:21:34 am

But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what deathsword makes up.

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 08:30:14 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 11:16:59 am

I'm waiting for your next post Deathsword. You're next post will likely decide the turn of this game.
I hope you make us disappointed so that we can lynch you already...

FTFY

dont do this, ever. It does not help your case whatsoever

Now then, regarding borno. first of all there's the obvious lack of interest and lack of scumhunting. I can't emphasize this enough, with the stunt he pulled on day 2, he should have been the subject of a policy-lynch before we reached MYLO.

secondly there is the WIFOM situation. As i explained last night, the direct style of the person doing the nightkills matches up with the mindset of borno far better than it does for deathsword. deathsword wouldn't be so predictable in choosing nightkill targets. now then, a good counterpoint to this is the hidden presence of Tiruin as the scum IC. however as shown by last night's triple-post, borno isn't actually paying attention to Tiruin's advice, or even giving her a proper chance to help him with his difficult situation.

third, i would like to point out this quote here:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 03:28:38 am

Lenglon: Seems pretty towny to me. He's a barrel full 'o' activeness, and I like that. Doing well so far in terms of scumhunting too

this was not well thought out, at all. My inital posts attacking deathsword was full of weak cases, and I even contradicted myself a couple times. my entire purpose with those attacks were to apply pressure, and I wasn't actually trying to present a lynch case so much as test for attitudes and reactions. However from his perspective and Deathsword's, I should have looked a little scummy for such a poorly-thought-out case. I was also buddying Shinigami, and gee, the one night we didn't have a nightkill was when I replaced in. maybe the scum simply idled their way through the night without doing a nightkill at all, and had to be replaced? Deathsword reacted quite reasonablly, witholding judgement and questioning me, trying to get a read and not taking for granted that activity equals townieness. Borno did not, he simply assumed I must be town.

btw Borno, my vote up until that triple post was actually just a pressure vote, both when it was on Deathsword and when it was on you. in fact the entire point of this post:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:37:24 pm

Welp, that was easy. Borno is scum. I'll present the lynch case later tonight when I have my notes with me.

Borno: Thank you for your cooperation.

was to wind you up like a children's toy. considering your triple-post afterwards, I'd say it worked.

now then, when Borno got pressured and wound up, what did he do? he panicked, started namecalling, and called my accusations stupid without addressing them properly.

what did Deathsword do when pressured? he answered my challenges as best as he was able and kept scumhunting on his own, including questioning me and my tactics that is a towntell, and not a minor one. His null tell on me was just good sense, and demonstrated little self-preservation. if he were scum, and I was a total unknown and new player, wouldn't the "smart" move be to focus on the person that I've already said i'm suspicious of? like borno did to deathsword? look at each of their reactions to my questioning. Borno complimented me, never tried to question me or get a read on me, and attacked deathsword for his supposedly obvious scummyness. Borno wasn't actually scumhunting, he was trying to cause a mislynch on the only other person who looked scummy. His total lack of suspicion for me was a major scumtell, and the entire point of my questioning style was to look for exactly that mistake. I started day 4 planning on attacking deathsword, hard, out of the blue, and then slowly transitioning to borno, and watching how they reacted. Deathsword shifted from reading as minor scum to me to a null tell, and borno shifted from moderate scum to guarenteed scum. that was the entire point of my antics this game, and I'm of the opinion it worked. the person who DIDN'T attack me was the scum.

look at borno, right now. he isn't scumhunting, all day, he hasn't been scumhunting, all of day 3, he wasn't scumhunting, all of day 2, he wasn't scumhunting. he put on a show of scumhunting day 1 and never even tried afterwards, confident that the smokescreen he threw up would protect him all game. that is a sign of scum.

look at deathsword's reaction to my presence, he doesn't magically trust me despite having no time to get a read for me, and me attacking seemingly at random without rhyme or reason. That is a sign of town.

The above is my case for why Borno is the scum and must die.

PPE-

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 09:59:20 pm

FTFY? sorry. My "Lingo" sucks

Fixed That For You.

check the quote text, he modified it to say what he thinks would be a better version of the same thing.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:23:19 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 04:28:24 pm

I felt kinda bad for not protecting griffionday n1  :-\ I was deciding whether to protect him or nerjin, and I thought that the scum would kill the ICs first, knowing full well that there was every possibility that he could be scum. N2 I protected deathsword, although that was a waste of a protect as he is huge scum. N3 I protected shinigami too.

he did actually

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 10:39:19 pm

Welp, I don't like deathswords case but hey~ Unvote

Borno~~~ Dum dum DUUUUM. And I am pretty sure I will keeping my vote in place from this point onward so thank you guys. Death, Borno, Lenglon; are you keeping your votes or do you have more to say?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:42:12 pm

I've said my piece, but i'm open to change. I dont expect it to happen, but it's possible.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 10:42:33 pm

Also sorry for the double post   ::) I was just going to suggest that both you Borno and you Lenglon take part in Toon mafia VII. Death and I are already taking part. Just an idea.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 11:02:50 pm

I don't want to be in more than one mafia at a time. I plan on being in the next BM instead. only being here for MYLO isn't enough experience in my opinion. I don't care how experienced I look, reality is this is my only game of forum mafia, ever, I've never played IRC mafia, and the last time i played RL mafia was almost ten years ago, and I literally lost all twelve games I played, both as scum and as town.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 10, 2013, 11:20:00 pm

FTFY = Fixed That For You

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Vector on May 10, 2013, 11:43:45 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 11:02:50 pm

I don't want to be in more than one mafia at a time. I plan on being in the next BM instead. only being here for MYLO isn't enough experience in my opinion. I don't care how experienced I look, reality is this is my only game of forum mafia, ever, I've never played IRC mafia, and the last time i played RL mafia was almost ten years ago, and I literally lost all twelve games I played, both as scum and as town.

You should play.  I think we need more people in order to have an acceptably good game.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on May 10, 2013, 11:50:12 pm

you should be able to handle 2 games Lenglon, Just don't do three, thats when problems arise. Besides, Mafia never win Toon Mafia! So if your town in it you'll win! (i still feel bad about having to leave Mephs game :( )

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 12:12:22 am

>.>
fine
I hope I don't embarrass myself too quickly.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on May 11, 2013, 12:27:41 am

Worst case scenario, you end up having to be replaced in one of them. Then you know not to listen to us idiots. ;)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 11, 2013, 12:39:07 am

Will make post later, but for now:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 04:28:24 pm

Quote from: Deathsword link=topic=124597.msg4235990#msg4235990 date=1368120209
Also, [u

I am a doctor[/u]. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

Yes, thanks for clearing that up. Everyone, we have found the scum. I am the actual doctor. Finally I can explain my lurking. Mostly it has been because I felt kinda bad for not protecting griffionday n1  :-\ I was deciding whether to protect him or nerjin, and I thought that the scum would kill the ICs first, knowing full well that there was every possibility that he could be scum. N2 I protected deathsword, although that was a waste of a protect as he is huge scum. N3 I protected shinigami too.

It appears as though deathsword is either incredibly lazy, or just stupid.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 11, 2013, 01:07:13 am

Or not.  I guess I will post now after all.
Lenglon:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 07:21:34 am

Go home evil Lenglon, you're drunk.  :P

I dont drink.

JOKE

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 07:21:34 am

But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to see what deathsword makes up.

Quote from: borno on May 10, 2013, 08:30:14 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 11:16:59 am

I'm waiting for your next post Deathsword. You're next post will likely decide the turn of this game.
I hope you make us disappointed so that we can lynch you already...

FTFY

dont do this, ever. It does not help your case whatsoever

JOKE

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

Now then, regarding borno. first of all there's the obvious lack of interest and lack of scumhunting. I can't emphasize this enough, with the stunt he pulled on day 2, he should have been the subject of a policy-lynch before we reached MYLO.

Come on man. This whole day I've been trying to make up for my major lurking day 2, yet you still say I have a lack of interest and scumhunting. And then you say that you should have policy-lynched me before MYLO, but here you are, doing it anyway at MYLO.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

secondly there is the WIFOM situation. As i explained last night, the direct style of the person doing the nightkills matches up with the mindset of borno far better than it does for deathsword. deathsword wouldn't be so predictable in choosing nightkill targets. now then, a good counterpoint to this is the hidden presence of Tiruin as the scum IC. however as shown by last night's triple-post, borno isn't actually paying attention to Tiruin's advice, or even giving her a proper chance to help him with his difficult situation.

You wanna know something ICs say all the time, and I myself has also said? Don't analyse night-kills. All they are is WIFOM fuel. And And yeah, that's true, I'm not listening to tiruin's advice. This is because I'm a doctor and don't have access to scum-chat. Seriously, why am I suddenly confirmed scum now that Deathsword has claimed doctor? You had some good points on him before, why did you drop them?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

third, i would like to point out this quote here:

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 03:28:38 am

Lenglon: Seems pretty towny to me. He's a barrel full 'o' activeness, and I like that. Doing well so far in terms of scumhunting too

this was not well thought out, at all. My inital posts attacking deathsword was full of weak cases, and I even contradicted myself a couple times. my entire purpose with those attacks were to apply pressure, and I wasn't actually trying to present a lynch case so much as test for attitudes and reactions. However from his perspective and Deathsword's, I should have looked a little scummy for such a poorly-thought-out case. I was also buddying Shinigami, and gee, the one night we didn't have a nightkill was when I replaced in. maybe the scum simply idled their way through the night without doing a nightkill at all, and had to be replaced? Deathsword reacted quite reasonablly, witholding judgement and questioning me, trying to get a read and not taking for granted that activity equals townieness. Borno did not, he simply assumed I must be town.

Doing well in scumhundidn't find no nk scummy because I protected Shini.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

btw Borno, my vote up until that triple post was actually just a pressure vote, both when it was on Deathsword and when it was on you. in fact the entire point of this post:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:37:24 pm

Welp, that was easy. Borno is scum. I'll present the lynch case later tonight when I have my notes with me.

Borno: Thank you for your cooperation.

was to wind you up like a children's toy. considering your triple-post afterwards, I'd say it worked.

now then, when Borno got pressured and wound up, what did he do? he panicked, started namecalling, and called my accusations stupid without addressing them properly.

Actually, I was a bit frustrated because the mafia was right there and you seemed to ignore him completely, dropping your case without a moment's notice. And yeah, I'll admit to panicking. Why? Because you are about to lynch a townie and lose the game for all of us.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

what did Deathsword do when pressured? he answered my challenges as best as he was able and kept scumhunting on his own, including questioning me and my tactics that is a towntell, and not a minor one. His null tell on me was just good sense, and demonstrated little self-preservation. if he were scum, and I was a total unknown and new player, wouldn't the "smart" move be to focus on the person that I've already said i'm suspicious of? like borno did to deathsword? look at each of their reactions to my questioning. Borno complimented me, never tried to question me or get a read on me, and attacked deathsword for his supposedly obvious scummyness. Borno wasn't actually scumhunting, he was trying to cause a mislynch on the only other person who looked scummy. His total lack of suspicion for me was a major scumtell, and the entire point of my questioning style was to look for exactly that mistake. I started day 4 planning on attacking deathsword, hard, out of the blue, and then slowly transitioning to borno, and watching how they reacted. Deathsword shifted from reading as minor scum to me to a null tell, and borno shifted from moderate scum to guarenteed scum. that was the entire point of my antics this game, and I'm of the opinion it worked. the person who DIDN'T attack me was the scum.

Me? Mislynching? Look at Deathsword's posts on all the other days. All he's done is go for the easy lynch, except when ranger had screwed up enough to warrant a bus. And personally I prefer to go after one person at a time, who, in this case, was deathsword.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

look at borno, right now. he isn't scumhunting, all day, he hasn't been scumhunting, all of day 3, he wasn't scumhunting, all of day 2, he wasn't scumhunting. he put on a show of scumhunting day 1 and never even tried afterwards, confident that the smokescreen he threw up would protect him all game. that is a sign of scum.

I can't believe you have been saying this. Once again I point to a certain sword of death who just makes a few posts every few days to make it look like he's in the game. I, on the other hand, have already found scum, so I don't feel the need to scumhunt any more. And I've said: I felt bad for not protecting grifffionday.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 10:01:25 pm

PPE-

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 09:59:20 pm

FTFY? sorry. My "Lingo" sucks

Fixed That For You.

check the quote text, he modified it to say what he thinks would be a better version of the same thing.
JOKE

Shinigami:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 10:39:19 pm

Welp, I don't like deathswords case but hey~ Unvote

Borno~~~ Dum dum DUUUUM. And I am pretty sure I will keeping my vote in place from this point onward so thank you guys. Death, Borno, Lenglon; are you keeping your votes or do you have more to say?

... Amazing. This is your lynching case on me? I applaud your fantastic scumhunting, sir. Just because you're confirmed town doesn't mean you don't have to play the game at all. And death sure is going to keep the vote on without saying anything; he's got you right where =he wants you. Lenglon seems to busy not listening to me to shift his vote, and I know that I sure as hell am going to get Deathsword lynched or die trying.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 10, 2013, 10:42:33 pm

Also sorry for the double post   ::) I was just going to suggest that both you Borno and you Lenglon take part in Toon mafia VII. Death and I are already taking part. Just an idea.

Nah, I don't exactly feel confident of my abilities yet. Which is probably why I'm in this situation.

---

By the way, Lenglon, if you could please listen to me, that would be great. Not forcing you or anything; You seem to be pretty happy to not listen to me at all.

And shinigami, please provide your reasons for lynching me, before I really get mad.

Also, EXTEND.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 01:11:35 am

I'm taking the time to read it, but like i said, i have a scum-read on you, and a null-read on deathsword. please, make a case on him, thanks.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 01:12:37 am

Against-Extend
it's already on tuesday, we've got more than enough time left, this is a waste.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 11, 2013, 01:58:17 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 01:11:35 am

I'm taking the time to read it, but like i said, i have a scum-read on you, and a null-read on deathsword. please, make a case on him, thanks.

So you're opposing my extension even though you haven't read my cases? Wow. And in case you haven't noticed, I have already made a few cases on him, which you seem to have neglected to read.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 02:45:00 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 01:58:17 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 01:11:35 am

I'm taking the time to read it, but like i said, i have a scum-read on you, and a null-read on deathsword. please, make a case on him, thanks.

So you're opposing my extension even though you haven't read my cases? Wow. And in case you haven't noticed, I have already made a few cases on him, which you seem to have neglected to read.

I have read every post in this thread beyond page three, most of them several times. this includes your most recent ones.
Just because I read what you are saying doesn't mean I agree with it, and to be frank, you aren't making much sense right now. you need to calm down and organize yourself. sit down, re-read the thread all the way from day 1, and take notes. you know who is scum now, start writing down every tell he makes, all his patterns, try to get into his head, why did he vote _____, why did he ask this question, etc. make sure to include what he DOESN'T do to, sometimes that can be more telling that what he does do. like right now how Deathsword still hasn't answered a couple of my questions, nor presented his promised lynch case, and i'm getting really annoyed about it.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Tiruin on May 11, 2013, 06:09:51 am

Quote from: Vector on May 10, 2013, 11:43:45 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 10, 2013, 11:02:50 pm

I don't want to be in more than one mafia at a time. I plan on being in the next BM instead. only being here for MYLO isn't enough experience in my opinion. I don't care how experienced I look, reality is this is my only game of forum mafia, ever, I've never played IRC mafia, and the last time i played RL mafia was almost ten years ago, and I literally lost all twelve games I played, both as scum and as town.

You should play.  I think we need more people in order to have an acceptably good game.

^
What she said. My first game? I was a replacement in Think0028's BM, nearing LYLO I think. My first vote? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97045.msg2835818#msg2835818) Scared the [PROFANITY] out of me...despite how trivial it looks to you people. As in, imagine a time wherein you're sweaty (cold or not, I don't remember) and all alert because of the reason on 'what just happened and what did I do.'

So yeah. You could still play here, and finish this--get some xp, and level up ;P That was my first time in any Mafia btw...See me panic!

*Tiruin returns to the shadows.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 11, 2013, 06:34:49 pm

Borno- I have been presenting minor attacks on everyone (excluding myself because that would be stupid) throughout my time on this forum. Don't go saying I don't have cases. If I really wanted to I could string together a large number of quotes from you without even saying a word and it would be enough for a lynch case. Lenglon has said anything that needs to be said so if I commented you would attack me, who you know isn't scum, for bandwaggoning on Lenglon. I am happy that you are finally posting but the biggest problem I have with your posts are the fact that they are all defending yourself and attacking the townies, Lenglon and myself.

Quote

I have read every post in this thread beyond page three, most of them several times. this includes your most recent ones.
Just because I read what you are saying doesn't mean I agree with it, and to be frank, you aren't making much sense right now. you need to calm down and organize yourself. sit down, re-read the thread all the way from day 1, and take notes. you know who is scum now, start writing down every tell he makes, all his patterns, try to get into his head, why did he vote _____, why did he ask this question, etc. make sure to include what he DOESN'T do to, sometimes that can be more telling that what he does do. like right now how Deathsword still hasn't answered a couple of my questions, nor presented his promised lynch case, and i'm getting really annoyed about it.

She says what I feel. Attack Deathsword! I have openly said that I find death scummy. You are just doing a much better job at making us think you are scum.

Borno- Why are you attacking us?
Why are you not attacking Deathsword anymore than just pointing a finger?

Instead of Fighting and spitting at us; to defend yourself use one strong case and thats all I ask. The rest of your time put into this game should involve making strong cases against Death.

Deathsword- Where are you? You think the game is over now? It isn't, get back here!!!

Against extend- You have more than enough time. Now put on your thinking cap and put that time to good use!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: RangerCado on May 11, 2013, 06:40:02 pm

((Shinigami: Weekends count as zero time as most people are busy during them. The day ends tuesday afternoon so there is plenty of time for a response to be made still.))

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 11, 2013, 06:50:31 pm

I know that you D-U-M-B. But the lach of substance leaves a poor taste in my mouth. Especially at this detrimental point of the game. Don't try to invade this thread cado... I know where you live~

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

My case against Deathsword, written by Borno, fakeedited by Borno, published by Borno. Special thanks to Borno.
Disclaimer: This post is incredibly huge. Read at your own peril!
Chapter 1: RVS stage/Day 1

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

{Hello Newbies, this will be my IC voice. I will never lie to you while using it, even if it puts me at a disadvantage in-game. We are currently in Random Vote Stage, here we ask questions to others (and answer the questions asked to us) and throw around random votes, as you can clearly see in the posts above. Remember that you can use these questions to get better reads on other players, so don't ask about meaningless things. The point of RVS is to get the game going, otherwise there would be nothing to talk about. Keep in mind you don't have to ask a question to everyone, but sitting around doing absolutely nothing is bad and will get you killed.}

Spectr, have you ever played any other kind of mafia before (real-life, for example)?

Ranger, are you going to ask real question or just turn other's around?

Nerjin, are you scum?

Imperial Guardsman, how do you plan to hunt scum?

Griff

Quote from: Griffionday on April 11, 2013, 11:53:42 pm

Deathsword: What do you think of the thought that's been tossed around about switching the Cop with a Jailer?  How do you think that this would change the game?

Actually, it's the doctor that has been suggested to be swapped with the cop. This adds a certain danger to roleclaiming cop, since if the jailor protects you, you won't be able to investigate anyone.

Borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

Alright, he starts out strong a-- Wait a moment. Read that thing at the bottom. He is excusing himself a bit, but other than that he's playing exactly how he said he'd play as mafia. Seems RVS isn't as useless as most people think it is, eh?

Quote from: Deathsword on April 18, 2013, 11:52:39 am

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.
Unfortunately there were only three or four substantial posts he made D1 (With the last post of D1 being counted as a substantial post), so there really isn't much to go on.

---

Chapter 2: Early game stage/Day 2
He doesn't do much Day 2 due to issues, but then he manages this:

Quote from: Deathsword on April 23, 2013, 12:10:13 pm

Ranger

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami + SwordSmith: I'm going to continue to investigate Borno and see if i can find anyone else scummy.

Then why aren't you asking him questions?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Okami: I complained about IGs death because i thought Spectr and Deaths votes were from RVS and were left there because they hadn't had time to post.

The vote stayed after RVS not due to lack of time. Read below for more. And isn't it ironic that you accuse people of not scumhunting when you are not doing it yourself?

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + The Swords: What are your thoughts on IG showing up town? Do you think he made any good points before his death?

He was lazytown and made absolutely no points at all.

Quote from: RangerCado on April 22, 2013, 10:14:55 pm

Spectr + Death: Why didn't you change your votes on IG when we left RVS? Specifically Death who had a chance to change it as he did post before the cutoff.

He behaved in a scummy way. I may have placed my vote on him in RVS, but his behaviour made me increasingly suspicious that he was scum.

{Keeping votes on your RVS targets happens quite a lot, especially when the target answers in a less-than-satisfactory way}

Nerjin and Borno: Reads, yes?

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Quote from: Spectr on April 20, 2013, 04:01:17 pm

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves.

---

Chapter 3: Mid-game/Day 3

Quote from: Deathsword on April 27, 2013, 12:41:34 pm

We killed one of the scum players, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and relax, there is another one still.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

No one has posted recently and I am new so I feel like I am doing something wrong. If I am please let me know and I will try to fix my ways.

Nothing wrong with posting even when others do not.

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Borno: You keep apologizing for lurking, and yet you lurk. I still remember that BM where you lurked to victory as scum.

{Do not lurk, people! Nothing kills a game faster than lurking}

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

Quote from: Deathsword on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

He then says that everything is fine as long as you don't parrot, while in the same post parroting what everyone else has said. Nice job. As said earlier, he then simply jumps on the bandwagon at the very last minute, getting a townie lynched with minimal effort. A bargain!

---

Chapter 4: Endgame/Day 4

Quote from: Deathsword on May 07, 2013, 03:53:11 pm

First, as to why I haven't posted yesterday: My home was completely powerless (as was the rest of the city and the neighbouring cities) for the whole day.

Also huge post due to huge quote number

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 06, 2013, 06:46:19 pm

You know. I think specter is out as far as being scum goes. It is probably just a case of RL getting in the way. So we should look at his replacement neutral/ town. I suggest we start thinking of what is going on with everything now. The number one suspect that I had was town and as I said specter is out for me. So that leaves borno and death sword as my suspects.

Why do you think Spectr/Replacement is town/null? Reasons please.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 06, 2013, 06:46:19 pm

We are also on LaLo and my opinion as to why the scum didn't night kill is because we are on LaLo no matter what and this leaves more suspects.

We are not in LyLo (and it's LyLo and not LaLo). We are at MyLo. That means if we mislynch, we lose. A no lynch would leave us in LyLo, otherwise the game ends today.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

deathsword ALSO reads as scum to me because he's being ineffective and is an IC so can be held to a higher standard, no hard pressure on anyone for days, pretty much active lurking, and bandwagoned on swordsmith with no real questions.

I made a complete case on swordsmith, if he didn't feel like saying anything to that, it was his call. Not in the quote, but my posts are usually small, I am not verbose (Tiruin is an example of someone who is). Sometimes you do not need to have had any previous interaction with someone to notice scummy behaviour. He may have flipped town, but the things I pointed out were genuinely scummy and thus deserved a vote.

{To define a bandwagon: to vote for someone already in the lead to be lynched. This may or may not be scummy. A vote with no reason or very weak/lazy ones is scummy. One with actual reasons/a case is not}

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Deathsword: what are your current scum reads and why?

I have to reread, but as it stands now you are null (your predecessor vanished and you just replaced),

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

why haven't you been hunting?

University is serious business. However, if you notice there hasn't been a single day where I haven't built an actual case on someone. The definition of hunting often varies from player to player, my own is that cases count as hunting, as the targeted player often reacts to that.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

why haven't you been prodding the other players for NOT hunting?

They have been hunting. Most of those that haven't been were replaced. Last day I pressured borno, which then caused him to hunt.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

what is your opinion on borno specifically? why have you let him off so easily for mistaking noobtells for scumtells?

Could you provide an example where I did what you accuse me of in the bolded part?

The first part of the quoted text: my opinion on borno is affected by meta (explained below), for I have played with him before. If he lurks in the endgame (now), then that to me is scummy for he once lurked to victory as scum.

{Meta is how a player are expected to behave due to previous experience. Tiruin's meta is that she will make huge verbose posts and may be misunderstood due to that, Dariush's is that he will rage at the slightest provocation, etc}

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 12, 2013, 10:19:18 am

Borno

Quote from: borno on April 12, 2013, 07:55:04 am

Deathsword:
It is LyLo and you are a vanilla mafioso. There are two players who are both suspicion of you, as you were lurking most of the game. What do you say to divert their suspicion?

Instead of trying to come up with an excuse for lurking, I would instead find out something scummy one of those two players did, and, thus, try to convince the other one.

how do you plan to do this? show me please.

You would simply need to go through the thread, find out every single thing scummy made by one of the players and present that. If they had little interaction with the lynched scum (for one must have been lynched in a 3-player-lylo), then point that out as well.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 06, 2013, 09:42:33 pm

Borno: why have you been lurking so hard ever since day 1? you were active and useful then, but haven't done much since. why haven't you taken the initiative since griffon pressured you back on day 1. why have you only asked shinigami a single question since he replaced in?

Quote from: borno on April 26, 2013, 06:44:03 pm

Shinigami_King:
How are you feeling about replacing into this game d3?

really? that's all you have to ask him? ever? not even a single RVS question?

{RVS questions are rarely asked to replacements. Instead the questions are about the players opinion on his/her predecessor's actions and what has happened so far}

This is getting too big, I'll make another post.

Note how here he says that he's suspicious of me due to my lurking, yet still refrains from voting. Maybe he's too afraid to vote until the last minute in case it attracts attention?

Quote from: Deathsword on May 09, 2013, 12:23:29 pm

Working my way backwards through the thread

Quote from: borno on May 09, 2013, 03:28:38 am

Deathsword: Seems the scummiest player here so far. Pretty lurky (although I can't say much), and his post on swordsmith was pretty much parroting what every else had said. Perhaps swordsmith crafted deathsword badly and so deathsword resents him for it, or maybe deathsword was feeling a little lazy as Mafia and wanted a quick lynch. I personally think that it's the latter though.

Parroting? No. Let's see everyone's cases on swordsmith:

Spoiler: My case (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Deathsword on May 01, 2013, 05:23:04 pm

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

-snipped for size-

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point.

This is scummy. Why? First you didn't want to attack someone. Then you admit that you'd only attack him if no one else did. What is wrong with attacking someone already being attacked by others? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as you don't simply parrot what others have said.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job.

And this is not only scummy, since you didn't attack someone, but lazy as well, since you didn't because someone else was attacking him (or so you claim that to be the reason).


Aside from that you have also shown yourself to be concerned as to wheter others percieve you as scum or not. You always attack whomever is not being attacked, ensuring you look like you are doing something, but not actually having any impact on the game. Town know they are not scum and thus don't worry about it, insteading attacking with all they've got. Scum, on the other hand, worry a lot about being found, and thus try to just stay under the radar, doing as few action as they can, ensuring there is little to no evidence against them. All of this combined lead me to conclude you are scum swordsmith04, and thus you must die.

Spoiler: Borno (click to show/hide)

Quote from: borno on April 29, 2013, 04:43:50 am

swordsmith04:

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Borno: Is that all you've got after disappearing for an entire Day?
What do you make of RangerCado focusing on you, but not actually doing anything until pressured?

No, it is not.
I think that RangerCado focusing on me then not doing anything about is scummy, and obviously many other people shared my opinions as he got lynched.

---

Anywho, first thing's first.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Tabs are your friend.

I wasn't truely attacking him at that point. If I'd felt he was scum after reading his response and no one else had jumped on it, I would have started attacking him at that point. My post was more suspicious than antagonistic. The reason I didn't start pushing him when Okami started was partially that Okami was doing an excellent job, and partially because of lack of enthusiasm for the game. (I started procrastinating instead of checking the thread, and wound up reading some other threads in Bay12's roleplaying section. Timesink if ever there was one.) That small post where I voted Cado as well was me trying to have some presence in the thread after disappearing the previous day while not having the time to actually write up anything substantial. I wanted to 'jump into the fray', but I didn't have the time or the material without basically copying Okami No Rei's case. And if I was worried about looking like I was bandwagoning or bussing, I wouldn't have posted at all. Not like I wouldn't have been the only person not to vote D2. Even with my vote, it was still a minority.

So basically you're admitting to making a small post with minimal effort so that you look like you're being active in the thread? Not only that, but you also admit to copying Okami's case? And don't give me the 'there's not enough time' excuse, there was still a whole 24 hours left to re-read RangerCado's actions for you to build a case your self. Also, that last part is WIFOM and you know it. Really, it sounds like you're trying to make excuses for your incredibly scummy actions. No townie would willingly post something that  even themselves admit is complete garbage. Finally, RangerCado did have the majority of votes on him, because a lot of people were no-voting.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

I was wondering if someone was going to catch that. It was the original wording of the question, actually. I made it more vague so that I could examine the answer regardless of which side the player answered. I was looking for how they reacted and responded to the question. It was blatant copying of Okami No Rei's stated method of scumhunting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4170671#msg4170671), which looked quite interesting.

More admitting to blatant copying. Nah, just joking, but in all seriousness this looks like it was made up on the fly. The question seems dependant on the player in question is scum, as there isn't much that a townie would know or say that any other ordinary townie would know. Unless of course, the player in question is a power role, which means that that question may have actually been incredibly sneaky role-fishing.

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 28, 2013, 05:55:29 pm

It's the weekend. We're not allowed to have anyone prodded on the weekend, apparently. Although I agree about Spectr not being very active. At this point, I'm thinking either Spectr or borno is the last scum. borno, mostly. I'd jump on him, but you'd assume I was trying to distract you.
In all seriousness, if he hasn't made a substantial post by Monday night, I'm putting my vote him. I'm hesitant to do it now because in my view, votes aren't something to be thrown around lightly outside of RVS, and he's provided an excuse. An excuse that is quickly expiring, by the way, borno.

And then there's this. Are you really saying that you want to attack me, but think that if you did it'd make you look like scummy? And then you leave us with a threat of a vote, yet nothing else? RangerCado did that, and he got himself lynched. Better watch your step and repeating your scumbuddy's mistakes.

---

Overall, you seem to be coming off as a newb scum, coming up with excuses for your slips off the fly, copying other's cases, bandwagoning and even admitting it, and most of all, forsaking the opportunity to attack someone because it'd draw attention to you. No townie would ever do that. All these slips and more, all from one post. I think it's time to hire a swordsmith05, because swordsmith04 is a total scumbag.

Spoiler: Shinigami (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 04:20:31 pm

swordsmith04

Quote from: swordsmith04 on April 27, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:57:23 pm

Quote

What, to you, is the scummiest kind of action? Have you seen such an action in this game?

Death sword-- It is hard to tell. A tell tale sign of a scummy player will be seen if they are not a good player I suppose. They would make themselves obvious. I haven't really seen that in this game. Ranger was definitely the most suspicious but he is gone now. Looking for people to just make a small mistake is foolish. You should keep your eye out, but in this kind of game people over think things and will go on too hard for natural human errors. I can see scummy things in any post but you need to take things with a grain of salt. I am really looking at people who interacted with the scum we already found right now. They could have tried planning on working together to divert suspicion and distance themselves wile not making a strong case against the other. For example not taking quotes to back up their points or saying things that have already been said.

Because of these reasons I am going to vote for swordsmith04

If a scumtell could only ever be utilized in one case, then nobody would ever have more than one vote against them. Bandwagoning is a scumtell; agreeing that someone is scum isn't necessarily one. You might notice that I voiced suspicion of RangerCado before Okami No Rei did. If you didn't, the relevant posts are here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196195#msg4196195) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124597.msg4196656#msg4196656).

Now I've got a question for you. Why would you try to sub into a game where you already knew who one of the scum were?

You may have mentioned it first purely not to look bias. Also mentioning it early on the offhand (you have to admit it wasn't very threatening even when you "attacked" Ranger) would give you an opportunity to fall back on an old post like you already did. Of course these are all assumptions but they are all possible and quite intelligent ways to avoid being suspected. After Okami started pushing you didn't. You did post again as I quoted before but you did not fully jump into the fray. As if you wanted to avoid being suspected of scummy act known as band-wagoning.

While typing a post, is it possible to go back to previous pages of the thread? I Kind of want to grab some quotes.

Anyway, on page five you asked a question nice and early on. It involved wondering how to play as your least favorite side. The common side that is unfavorable is mafia. So the question could have been interpreted as "how do you play as scum" in a nonchalant way. I will keep looking for more quotes that support my thoughts but seriously. I would really appreciate it if someone told me how to quote previous pages.

---

Moving on from that. I actually didn't know he was scum in this specific game. He told me he was in 3 different games and he was scum in one of them. Later while we he was explaining mafia to me he saw that I was looking for a beginners game and this was the only one right now. He let it slip he was scum on this one by accident and that is why I wasn't allowed to join until now. I wanted to sub into this game specifically however because Toonyman and Captain Ford told me to try and join a beginners game so they could see if I was good enough for their game. That should answer that question.

If you look at it, all 3 cases were similar? Why? Because swordsmith was scummy. He was town, yes, but that doesn't make his behaviour less scum-like. Not lynching a scummy person because they might be town is simply stupid, borno.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 08, 2013, 06:31:23 pm

Deathsword: could you please paste a link to the game where Borno "Lurked to Victory"? I would like to review it for building a meta-based case.

My memory isn't what it once was. I was thinking of BM 35, where scum boltur (which I insist on confusing with borno, that was in that game (and also lurked)) lurked to victory. Borno was scum on BM 34, where he lurked but was replaced with always-scum Tiruin.

---

Reads:
Shinigami: Town, quite a solid player, have yet to see a scum-tell. Also, see below.
Borno: Scum, is trying to drive a bullshit case on me being lurky (while he lurked like a champ), even though I repeatedly stated throught the thread that for the first half of the game I was quite sick, and, most importantly, accusing me of parroting, despite that all 3 cases on swordsmith were similar, including his own (which was not the first, shinigami's was).
Lenglon: Null, clearly intelligent, hasn't dropped any scumtells, but gut feeling makes me suspicious of him still.

Also, I am a doctor. Night 1: I protected Nerjin, Night 2: I protected swordsmith, Night 3: I protected Shinigami.

Then h-- Wait a second. Not lynching a scummy person because they might be town? I never remember saying anything like that. Then he says that I was driving a case on him being lurky, which wasn't the only reason at all why I was voting him. Then he feels the need to alert everyone to my champion lurking, even though I had told everybody already that I wasn't a paragon of activeness in parenthesis.
Then, what sealed his scummyness for me (but unfortunately no-one else) was his claiming doctor. Now, as there can't be more than one doctor in the game, I know that he's a lying Mafioso.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

---

Aaaand that is it! Hopefully that's enough to get everyone to lynch Deathsword.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

Deathsword:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

just a reminder of unanswered questions.

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 12, 2013, 12:09:10 am

That is not enough seeing as if you look over your actual input it is quite small for us to remove our votes. (16 lines and a BUTT-TON of quotes). I appreciate the efforts so keep trying. Also, quotes are important as is everything you say, however it feels as though you are trying to overrun us with your points when you add little. So while it is appreciated, it isn't enough yet.

Also yes, I personally believe that 16 lines is minimal at best for the situation you are in. This single post comprises of 5 lines simply in response to your post. This is a post without me trying to drive a point home. If you compare the ratio and the importance of the post it's all quite staggering. Also, unlike Lenglon I appreciated the length and I ask for more... we are different people and hold different opinions.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 12, 2013, 06:07:00 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

I didn't attack the content inside the brackets, just the timing of it. He could have extended, unvoted, told everyone not to lynch so early, but instead he popped in and made an IC post. It's not his strongest tell, but it still is a tell IMHO.

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 12, 2013, 12:09:10 am

That is not enough seeing as if you look over your actual input it is quite small for us to remove our votes. (16 lines and a BUTT-TON of quotes). I appreciate the efforts so keep trying. Also, quotes are important as is everything you say, however it feels as though you are trying to overrun us with your points when you add little. So while it is appreciated, it isn't enough yet.

Also yes, I personally believe that 16 lines is minimal at best for the situation you are in. This single post comprises of 5 lines simply in response to your post. This is a post without me trying to drive a point home. If you compare the ratio and the importance of the post it's all quite staggering. Also, unlike Lenglon I appreciated the length and I ask for more... we are different people and hold different opinions.

So what? 17 lines is still quite a bit. Here is the post without the quotes and fluff in them:

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Alright, he starts out strong a-- Wait a moment. Read that thing at the bottom. He is excusing himself a bit, but other than that he's playing exactly how he said he'd play as mafia. Seems RVS isn't as useless as most people think it is, eh?
Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.
Unfortunately there were only three or four substantial posts he made D1 (With the last post of D1 being counted as a substantial post), so there really isn't much to go on.
You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves.
He then says that everything is fine as long as you don't parrot, while in the same post parroting what everyone else has said. Nice job. As said earlier, he then simply jumps on the bandwagon at the very last minute, getting a townie lynched with minimal effort. A bargain!
Note how here he says that he's suspicious of me due to my lurking, yet still refrains from voting. Maybe he's too afraid to vote until the last minute in case it attracts attention?
Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

---

Aaaand that is it! Hopefully that's enough to get everyone to lynch Deathsword.

Which is quite a lot in my eyes. Anyway, that post has all my cases against Deathsword in it, which should hopefully convince you to vote him. Still, if you don't think it's a big enough post, remember how Deathsword has been inactive for a lot of the game, so there really weren't many posts I could analyse.
And also:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 11, 2013, 06:34:49 pm

Borno- Why are you attacking us?

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 09:23:08 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 13, 2013, 04:24:03 am

Lenglon:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 09:23:08 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Ah, sorry. I began to suspect Deathsword at the start of today, when I looked back at his post yesterday which, essentially, was just jumping on the Swordsmith bandwagon with little to no reasoning. Over time, I found a few other things odd about his story, causing me to vote him. Then, when he claimed doctor, I instantly knew he was Mafia, as as I've said earlier, I am the real doctor.
Deathsword:
Would you kindly post your response to my post? Or any post at all for that matter?

---

Just a heads-up, I'm probably not going to be too active on Tuesday, and not on at all on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Once again, could everyone please be 100% definite on who they want to kill by Wednesday and if not an extension would be great.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 13, 2013, 08:48:05 am

Borno (3): Lenglon, Deathsword, Shinigami_King
Shinigami_King (0):
Lenglon (0):
Deathsword (1): Borno

Day will end 5/14/2013 at 18:00 GMT. 27:00 Hours left

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 13, 2013, 08:57:32 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

Requesting a Massclaim: I want confirmation of Deathsword's doctor claim, and need to know if anyone is going to be claiming anything else before presenting my lynch case on who I think is scum. Shinigami do not claim until Borno has. Shinigami is the only person we all agree is town, so he should claim last so we can catch anyone who Fakeclaims. remember there is no more than one person who has any given power role, if someone claims your power role they are scum. I am a Vanilla Townie.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 02:45:00 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 01:58:17 am

Quote from: Lenglon on May 11, 2013, 01:11:35 am

I'm taking the time to read it, but like i said, i have a scum-read on you, and a null-read on deathsword. please, make a case on him, thanks.

So you're opposing my extension even though you haven't read my cases? Wow. And in case you haven't noticed, I have already made a few cases on him, which you seem to have neglected to read.

I have read every post in this thread beyond page three, most of them several times. this includes your most recent ones.
Just because I read what you are saying doesn't mean I agree with it, and to be frank, you aren't making much sense right now. you need to calm down and organize yourself. sit down, re-read the thread all the way from day 1, and take notes. you know who is scum now, start writing down every tell he makes, all his patterns, try to get into his head, why did he vote _____, why did he ask this question, etc. make sure to include what he DOESN'T do to, sometimes that can be more telling that what he does do. like right now how Deathsword still hasn't answered a couple of my questions, nor presented his promised lynch case, and i'm getting really annoyed about it.

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

Deathsword:

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

just a reminder of unanswered questions.

borno:, thank you for presenting your case. I liked the formatting of it, despite the length you kept it quite organized and easy to read. I would suggest removing the section attacking what he said in the IC voice brackets though, as anything in those is always an honest attempt to give as neutral of advice as possible.

could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 09:23:08 pm

Quote from: Lenglon on May 09, 2013, 04:12:39 pm

Deathsword: Why did you choose to claim now? Why not claim at the start of the day?

Quote from: Lenglon on May 12, 2013, 12:07:05 am

borno:could you please tell me when the first time was you suspected Deathsword, and why?

Deathsword: Please dont make me change the color of your name or bold the word extend to get you to answer this simple question. Why did you choose to claim when you did? why didn't you claim at the start of the day?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

It was a weekend and I had to deal with family stuff.

Why did I choose to claim at that time and not at the start of the day? Firstly, because claiming at the start of MyLo/LyLo is not exactly necessary unless there is a massclaim, and I didn't want to make you or any other beginners think that is what you must do at MyLo/LyLo. Why did I claim at that time then? Because my read of Shinigami as town was due to that protect. Simple as that.

{Lenglon, pressuring people during a weekend to answer your question will tend to only cause you frustration. Ask once during the weekend if you must, and then pressure during the weekdays}

Quote from: borno on May 12, 2013, 06:07:00 am

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 18, 2013, 11:52:39 am

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.

The content in brackets had absolutely nothing to do with my choice of lynch. I was explaining why some people do not unvote during RVS. You are trying to twist that, it seems. IG was clearly absurdely scummy and if he hadn't been killed then he would become the absolute main target in MyLo/LyLo, leading to a town defeat.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Quote from: Spectr on April 20, 2013, 04:01:17 pm

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves

Go and ask any of the non-beginner players of this board if they feel sorry for mislynches. The answer will be always the same: No. Also, you conveniently forget that anyone could easily pretend to be sorry and surprised about a lynch. IG was scummy and added absolutely nothing to the game, I would vote him again if offered the chance of changing D1.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself![/quote]
So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Lenglon on May 13, 2013, 02:09:14 pm

welp, you answered decently, from my point of view the die is cast, and I just really, really hope we guessed right.

btw, flavor-wise we're miners trapped in a mineshaft waiting for rescue, right? the smart way to handle this situation would be to no-lynch over and over while doing the assigned doctor targets thing shinigami talked about earlier. eventually rescue would come and get us all out, including the scum. and we could sort out which of the two was the real doctor and which was scum later, or just not bother at all.
or just lynch them both and have done with it.
neither of which is an option in a game of mafia.

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 13, 2013, 02:29:15 pm

Quote

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

keep the confidence you have shown us thus far in this game. I understand how you feel but showing a calm head, even if you are not keeping one, is important.

---

For whatever reason I actually suspect Deathsword more than Borno. The conflict here comes from the fact that there are way too many scum tells on Borno for me to turn a blind eye. So while it contradicts my actual thoughts Borno is the most suspicious here.

I also thank you Deathsword for finally speaking, it is much appreciated.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 13, 2013, 02:40:12 pm

sorry for the repost, but as far as your ideas go.

Quote

btw, flavor-wise we're miners trapped in a mineshaft waiting for rescue, right? the smart way to handle this situation would be to no-lynch over and over while doing the assigned doctor targets thing shinigami talked about earlier. eventually rescue would come and get us all out, including the scum. and we could sort out which of the two was the real doctor and which was scum later, or just not bother at all.
or just lynch them both and have done with it.

Or we could give both of them semi minor lacerations and see which person properly deals with the wound. We would easily be able to tell who the doctor is if we were able to do this.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 13, 2013, 04:23:20 pm

Deathsword:

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: borno on May 12, 2013, 06:07:00 am

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

Yeah, I am desperate. Yeah, I do want people to sympathise with me. Know why? Because you are confirmed Mafia, and if Shinigami and Lenglon lynch me we'll all lose.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.
[/quote]
Uh... yes you did. Even in your sentence right then. I'll bold it for you.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?

Still, it doesn't take too much effort to read 1 or 2 pages.
Shinigami_King:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 13, 2013, 02:29:15 pm

Quote

in any case, win or lose, this experience was terrifying. I felt like I had to take a REALLY extreme stance or we wouldn't have a good chance at this, and I did what I could, but I don't want to have to get this aggressive again if I can help it. still, if it worked...
I really hope it worked.

keep the confidence you have shown us thus far in this game. I understand how you feel but showing a calm head, even if you are not keeping one, is important.

---

For whatever reason I actually suspect Deathsword more than Borno. The conflict here comes from the fact that there are way too many scum tells on Borno for me to turn a blind eye. So while it contradicts my actual thoughts Borno is the most suspicious here.

I also thank you Deathsword for finally speaking, it is much appreciated.

I, personally think you should rather go with your gut.

But honestly, what have my scumtells been? Lurking? Check. Being desperate as we were about to lose the game? Check. I don't see why you keep saying that I've been dropping too many, when I really don't think I have.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 13, 2013, 04:31:01 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

It was a weekend and I had to deal with family stuff.

Why did I choose to claim at that time and not at the start of the day? Firstly, because claiming at the start of MyLo/LyLo is not exactly necessary unless there is a massclaim, and I didn't want to make you or any other beginners think that is what you must do at MyLo/LyLo. Why did I claim at that time then? Because my read of Shinigami as town was due to that protect. Simple as that.

{Lenglon, pressuring people during a weekend to answer your question will tend to only cause you frustration. Ask once during the weekend if you must, and then pressure during the weekdays}

Quote from: borno on May 12, 2013, 06:07:00 am

I'm not attacking you. You guys are voting me although I have presented the mafia to you in a nice clean platter, whereas the other 'doctor' has not made a post more than 10 post long against me. I've done all you have asked me to in regards to attacking Deathsword; But now I have to ask you to listen to my case and vote Deathsword.

This simply reeks of desperation. You are trying to convince Lenglon and Shinigami of your point of view, without seeing how they percieve the case. In fact, the last sentence implores the reader to "listen" to the case, as if it wasn't listened to in the first place. This is manipulation, trying to make people sympathise with you.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on April 18, 2013, 11:52:39 am

{A RVS vote may become a real vote if there are sufficient reasons. It is quite a common occurence}

Then, as I have said earlier, there's this. He pops in to post some 'helpful' advice, yet not doing anything about the death about to happen, which is mostly from RVS votes. Except his, which instantly makes everything fine and the lynch able to go through without anyone minding. Except it doesn't, and it didn't. He also kept that vote on IG for the entire day. This is a clear sign of tunnelling, especially if it's RVS.

The content in brackets had absolutely nothing to do with my choice of lynch. I was explaining why some people do not unvote during RVS. You are trying to twist that, it seems. IG was clearly absurdely scummy and if he hadn't been killed then he would become the absolute main target in MyLo/LyLo, leading to a town defeat.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

So, he tells us that the D1 lynch wasn't because of lack of time... Even though Spectr himself had hinted that he didn't mean to kill IG. Here's the post:

Quote from: Spectr on April 20, 2013, 04:01:17 pm

Oh my! Sorry about that IG, i am quite  surprised.

You wouldn't be surprised about killing someone had you done it on purpose, but Deathsword seemed to miss that post, or just dismiss it for some reason. Seems pretty lazy to me. Seriously, even if you're incredibly busy, surely you'd have enough time to sit down and read 1 page? Oh yeah, he also decides to jump on the RangerCado bandwagon, not even supplying his case. He did, however, ask a few questions, which kind of looks like scumhunting, but usually when you're voting someone you to kill them you supply a case so that they can at least have a chance to defend themselves

Go and ask any of the non-beginner players of this board if they feel sorry for mislynches. The answer will be always the same: No. Also, you conveniently forget that anyone could easily pretend to be sorry and surprised about a lynch. IG was scummy and added absolutely nothing to the game, I would vote him again if offered the chance of changing D1.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

About the argument that my posts contain little text: I am rather minimalistic. I like to condense all my thought into as little text as possible. Look at any game I've been in. Any at all. Try to find a wall of text made by me. Quotes don't count.

Borno, you claim to be the "real" doctor, yet all you did was say I am lying and scum and you are the real deal. Look at my claim. I provided all my actions. Did you? No. I guess you might now, but if I hadn't said anything about this, you would never ever have said anything about your "actions".

Once again with the skipping over posts. I'm beginning to wonder if he's really interested in this game at all; He doesn't seem to read the thread at all before he posts.

Let me show you something in this post.

Quote from: Deathsword on May 10, 2013, 10:13:24 pm

Extremely tired, but I said I would post.

You see that, I hope?
[/quote]

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2013, 05:15:48 pm

Quote from: borno on May 13, 2013, 04:23:20 pm

Deathsword:

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Uh... yes you did. Even in your sentence right then. I'll bold it for you.

Let me put the situation in simple terms so it can not be misunderstood or twisted: I was asked if, were I scum, I would have killed Okami night 2 as had just happened. I answered that, if I was mafia, I would have killed him night 1. Just that. A question was asked. A question was answered.

Also fixed the quote order.

Also, scum are the ones that tend to get desperate when things don't go their way, just so you know.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: borno on May 14, 2013, 02:27:16 am

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 05:15:48 pm

Quote from: borno on May 13, 2013, 04:23:20 pm

Deathsword:

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: borno on May 11, 2013, 11:05:37 pm

Quote from: Deathsword on May 13, 2013, 09:26:47 am

Quote from: Shinigami_King on April 27, 2013, 12:12:57 am

Death sword- What are your opinions on what the motives might be for Okami to be killed. Would you have made the same move?
Also congratulations on killing one of the scum. What made you decide to vote on him?

My reasons to voting Ranger were stated alongside my vote. He performed actions considered scummy, thus leading to his lynch. As for Okami, it is impossible to know why the scum killed someone (unless you are scum, of course). That ways lies WIFOM. And would I have taken out Okami? Were I scum, probably. I would have taken him out earlier than this, however.

In this chapter, Deathsword congratulates everyone on killing his scumbuddy! He tells people that they have to stay alert so that they can catch him! He says that analysing night kills leads to WIFOM, as I have said myself earlier! Regardless, he tells everyone that he probably isn't mafia due to the time of the NK! He then tries to kill off another lurker! Must be fond of LAL! Then he expresses double standards by telling us not to lurk, even though he lurks himself!

So it's wrong to reinforce the notion that trying to a analyze night kills leads to WIFOM? I was asked if I'd kill Okami if I was scum. I answered. I would have killed him, but far earlier. I never said anything about time. Your attempts at word-twisting fail.

Uh... yes you did. Even in your sentence right then. I'll bold it for you.

Let me put the situation in simple terms so it can not be misunderstood or twisted: I was asked if, were I scum, I would have killed Okami night 2 as had just happened. I answered that, if I was mafia, I would have killed him night 1. Just that. A question was asked. A question was answered.

Also fixed the quote order.

Also, scum are the ones that tend to get desperate when things don't go their way, just so you know.

Hmm. I guess why it didn't make much sense to me is that I know that you are Mafia I guess. Sorry.
And I'd much prefer to be desperate and manage to find some tells in you than be idle and not get any tells at all. I think I'll call it Bellicose Scumhunting.

---

Anywho, this will probably be the last post before day end. I won't be able to answer any questions directed to me anymore.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Full)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 14, 2013, 05:41:06 pm

As the final votes are cast, Borno is dragged off into the cave. A quick blow with a rock, and he goes down. You frantically search his body and find something. A medical kit.
Borno has been lynched! He was a doctor!

Deathsword sneers. As the remain two turn to him he hurls a rock at Shinigami's head. Bringing him to the ground. He closes in on Lenglon, and you know that the saboteurs have won.

Scum Team has won the game! The scum where Deathsword: A Saboteur (Normal Mafia), and RangerCado: A Sneaky Saboteur (Roleblocker)
Borno was a doctor!

Link to Mafia Chatter. (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/PdDdi3KMGPE)
Link to Deadchat. (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/eyTPXkL2JTdpr)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 14, 2013, 05:43:21 pm

:D

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2013, 05:48:01 pm

Fakeclaim succeeds against all expectations.

This was fun.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Lenglon on May 14, 2013, 05:55:19 pm

blast it, my instincts were yelling deathsword, but i logicd them into shutting up.

i need to stop doing that.

also: yet again, attempting to WIFOM accurately doesn't work.

congrats on not falling for the bait deathsword. If you'd left me alone to try to form a bandwagon on borno you were going to be my target. apparently the ruse "whoever thinks I'm not scummy is scum" didn't work as well as planned...

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: zombie urist on May 14, 2013, 06:06:57 pm

Congratulations Scumteam! :)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: RangerCado on May 14, 2013, 06:47:57 pm

woo!!!

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Griffionday on May 14, 2013, 07:52:34 pm

New scum-tell: if an IC is "teaching" how to act during a critical lynch or playing from a position of an experienced player outside of {}; they are scum and need to die.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Vector on May 14, 2013, 07:56:43 pm

Wow, we've gotten to a critical lynch!  Time to start lurking and stop giving opinions.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: birdy51 on May 14, 2013, 08:02:09 pm

Congrats! I must admit that I had the wool pulled over my eyes as well when it comes to Borno... Turned out he was the doctor. O.o

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 14, 2013, 08:15:46 pm

Damn it.. I knew it too. I mean BAH- I'm dead

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 14, 2013, 08:16:59 pm

Don't kid yourself, Griff. The only way to tell who was telling the truth in this instance was gut instinct. The way I could tell was effort. Borno put a lot of effort into his case, and even though it was faulty, you could tell he was genuinely trying. That last part, which Deathsword dismissed as "an emotional appeal" was what sealed the deal for me.

You both ought to have learned a valuable lesson here - listen to your instincts.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 14, 2013, 08:47:47 pm

Quote from: Griffionday on May 14, 2013, 07:52:34 pm

New scum-tell: if an IC is "teaching" how to act during a critical lynch or playing from a position of an experienced player outside of {}; they are scum and need to die.

Oh boy, this is me right? What did I do wrong? D:

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 14, 2013, 08:15:46 pm

Damn it.. I knew it too. I mean BAH- I'm dead

Yer alive now, son. You can speak ^^

Quote from: Captain Ford on May 14, 2013, 08:16:59 pm

Don't kid yourself, Griff. The only way to tell who was telling the truth in this instance was gut instinct. The way I could tell was effort. Borno put a lot of effort into his case, and even though it was faulty, you could tell he was genuinely trying. That last part, which Deathsword dismissed as "an emotional appeal" was what sealed the deal for me.

You both ought to have learned a valuable lesson here - listen to your instincts.

What this Captain said.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Griffionday on May 14, 2013, 09:10:22 pm

Vector, Ford, and Tiruin:

I cede to your knowledge of the game.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 14, 2013, 09:17:09 pm

Well...it isn't a scumtell in the way that there's something you should watch out for--examine every snippet of evidence :P

But I don't know much. I actually know very little of this game.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: lordnincompoop on May 15, 2013, 06:58:16 am

Quote from: Captain Ford on May 14, 2013, 08:16:59 pm

Don't kid yourself, Griff. The only way to tell who was telling the truth in this instance was gut instinct. The way I could tell was effort. Borno put a lot of effort into his case, and even though it was faulty, you could tell he was genuinely trying. That last part, which Deathsword dismissed as "an emotional appeal" was what sealed the deal for me.

You both ought to have learned a valuable lesson here - listen to your instincts.

Lack of effort at endgame doesn't necessarily mean that person is Mafia. In BMs, sure, but I think that's primarily because it's still the stage where people think the best tactic is to be quiet and not say anything.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 15, 2013, 07:18:29 am

Preparing BM XLI. Will post for the link. Things will be running without clear roles at the moment but will be open for players to sign in (as I presume the sign in time'll take a bit longer than most, and I'm quite busy at the current week)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shakerag on May 15, 2013, 09:53:09 am

Quote from: Tiruin in Scumchat

Whoo-hay. This really reminds me of the time wherein I was tied up with Shakerag and Hapah back in the day.

We what now?

Quote from:  Deathsword in Scumchat

BM Constant: One of the ICs is scum. Always. People should policy lynch ICs.

From the time I started playing up until I was an IC and scum (and so was UI, good times), I hadn't seen a single IC be scum at all. 

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 16, 2013, 12:21:16 am

BM XLI up!

Join in! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126082.0)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 16, 2013, 11:43:50 am

Quote from: Shakerag on May 15, 2013, 09:53:09 am

Quote from: Tiruin in Scumchat

Whoo-hay. This really reminds me of the time wherein I was tied up with Shakerag and Hapah back in the day.

We what now?

Sounds kinky.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 16, 2013, 11:45:02 am

Wait wat.

I-

...

I had to google up that phrase to find out the meaning >_>

OK, I did not mean it that way. I meant...that one time wherein us three were at the Day four and so...and it was either me or Shakerag and all.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 16, 2013, 12:01:20 pm

Oh, it's nothing to be ashamed about, Tiruin. Shake and Hapah are handsome guys, and everyone can enjoy a little light bondage every now and then...

Which game was this, by the way?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 16, 2013, 12:13:11 pm

...D:
This one. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110494.msg3467102#msg3467102)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shakerag on May 16, 2013, 01:42:17 pm

Quote from: Tiruin on May 16, 2013, 12:13:11 pm

...D:
This one. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110494.msg3467102#msg3467102)

Oh.  That one.  Yeah, now I want to assault Hapah with a shovel again.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: zombie urist on May 16, 2013, 01:46:15 pm

I thought Shakerag was married and Hapah is close to marriage. :O

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shakerag on May 16, 2013, 04:57:28 pm

Quote from: zombie urist on May 16, 2013, 01:46:15 pm

I thought Shakerag was married and Hapah is close to marriage. :O

Where did you possibly get that impression from?

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: RangerCado on May 16, 2013, 06:02:36 pm

I can confirm Hapah. Don't know Shakerag though.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: zombie urist on May 16, 2013, 08:21:28 pm

I think I was thinking about Toaster instead.  :-[

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 16, 2013, 10:40:29 pm

Oh. So Toaster really isn't secretly female.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: zombie urist on May 16, 2013, 11:24:57 pm

Females get married too.  ;)

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Tiruin on May 16, 2013, 11:29:04 pm

:I

Toaster is male.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: borno on May 17, 2013, 01:04:44 am

Nice job, Deathsword. I guess you can see why I don't want to join any non-BMs now  :P

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Teneb on May 17, 2013, 07:08:20 am

Quote from: borno on May 17, 2013, 01:04:44 am

Nice job, Deathsword. I guess you can see why I don't want to join any non-BMs now  :P

You handled yourself pretty well and your case in that last BM was pretty good. You should join a non-BM (and try to get rid of the lurker meta). The reason you lost was that Lenglon and Shinigami didn't believe you for some reason.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 17, 2013, 04:11:29 pm

Quote

You handled yourself pretty well and your case in that last BM was pretty good. You should join a non-BM (and try to get rid of the lurker meta). The reason you lost was that Lenglon and Shinigami didn't believe you for some reason.

I can't speak for Lenglon but I personally believed him. I was torn between following the slight WIFOM-esc type of play style that I actually prefer to the hard evidence in my face. Borno, you had a bad record of acting scummy so I chose to look at you. In one of my later posts in response to your case I wanted to press you hopping that a cornered mouse could tear off a limb of an opponent. No Captain Ford, I was not being an asshole simply to be an asshole :(. If that made sence good, if you need a more acquit response instead of this rambley thing then I can do that too I think.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 17, 2013, 05:00:13 pm

Quote from: Shinigami_King on May 17, 2013, 04:11:29 pm

No Captain Ford, I was not being an asshole simply to be an asshole :(.

I'm sorry about that. I was worried I may have been a bit harsh. It did occur to me that you were merely doing it to put pressure on Borno, but you also put yourself into a position where it was hard to change your opinion without a mammoth amount of effort from Borno.

In my opinion, that was the case that Borno was going to make, and no further amount of effort was going to produce better results (can't squeeze blood from a stone). The expected effect would have been to make Borno exasperated, since he already dug up everything he could on a guy who barely posts -- which it did do. So, you know...

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Shinigami_King on May 17, 2013, 06:04:51 pm

Oh, I completely understand, especially the posision I was in myself. What was needed, and near impossible to do at that point of the game, was for Borno to create a strong case and find chinks in the armor that had not already been found. I personally wanted this to happen but I couldn't do it alone. I was hoping beyond hope really that squeezing a rock would in fact procure blood.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Captain Ford on May 17, 2013, 06:13:14 pm

Yeah, that's understandable, especially for your first game. I was a little too harsh on you, I think. You did quite well, overall, but there is only so far you can push people. And pushing DS might have produced better results, if you were looking for chinks.

My opinion is that it's always better to search for chinks in the present than in the past, which means exerting pressure.

Title: Re: BM XL: Miner's Mafia (Scumteam Wins!)
Post by: Spectr on July 06, 2013, 07:14:45 pm

Sorry, I disappeared part way through :(
Something happened IRL that didn't allow me to be online