Bay 12 Games Forum
Other Projects => Curses => Topic started by: tahujdt on April 28, 2013, 03:07:49 pm
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Which KA101 maps were incorporated into 4.07?
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I used his tweaked Nuclear Plant and all-new Courthouse without modification, revised the Bar & Grill, and rebuilt the Bunker entirely from scratch. I don't remember how much of the Bomb Shelter was original or revised; I might have replaced it entirely with my own map, or might have just modified it.
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Any requests for additional maps?
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I think a new park would be cool, maybe some tables like at other locations would be cool, but that doesn't seem like your forte. The TV and Radio stations seems like one of the locations that could be stagnant.
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I agree that the TV and Radio Stations could use some love. Or the Police Station. While it's true that every map made this way isn't randomized and so can be learned by repeat players, the random maze maps are so dry and uninteresting that the randomization they create isn't as interesting as a well-crafted custom map.
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Why not have the game choose randomly from a set of custom map layouts?
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Well, I'll look into that once I get back to my primary terminal.
Why am I not good at parks??? Problem with parks (leastwise generic parks) is that there's not much to do with them: grass, walls for grafitti, tables for color (you get the same effect by pressing S, since 4.6.1 or so), exit grids in a few areas, etc.
Re media stations: what do people think of the dual-Jury setups? Would more than one Studio make sense (I'm thinking not, since it sets off the Alarm) for a larger station?
If I get a compiler working, want a PD Armory (robbing it would probably be Theft/Terrorism?)?
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It just seems like you're better at working on more official buildings.
A PD armory could be cool. Maybe that could be another location to get the AA12, and maybe some sort of sniper rifle.
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Sniper rifles would be good for the gun equivalent of backstabbing.
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Sniper rifles would be good for the gun equivalent of backstabbing.
I don't see sniper rifles being effective inside buildings
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They're not. LCS combat takes place at point-blank/melee range, so I was considering making suppressed firearms. Police armory could have MP5SDs; suppressed 9mm handguns could be had at several different locations. (Suppressor not sold separately to save on coding.)
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I was thinking that it could be used like sniping when its used against you. When the raid starts text would pop up saying someone killed a soldier, so if you want to fight soldiers outside theres one less person to fight.
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Sniping siege forces? That seems like something that might (long-term) go into safehouse mods: Sniper/M249 Position.
Purely hypothetical at this point, feel free to criticize/comment: Snipers counter engineer/power cut attempts at the cost of Public Opinion (since you're shooting at the cops), M249 opens up to support the Squad/suppress Government troops as the LCS tries to break the siege. (Currently, there's no good reason at all to try breaking out of a siege, since the Government shoots first. If you know of a reason to attack the siege rather than waiting for Escape/Engage and killing them that way, let me know!)
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It could be an assignable position.
S - Set up a Sniper Position
Libby McLiberal has gotten a sniper rifle from the safe house
A pickup truck pulls up to the safe house, tires screeching!
CCS members pour out of the truck, but sniper fire drives them back!
Also, a 'post guard' option would be nice, which allows you to start at the front during a siege, with the siegers outside.
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It could be an assignable position.
S - Set up a Sniper Position
Libby McLiberal has gotten a sniper rifle from the safe house
A pickup truck pulls up to the safe house, tires screeching!
CCS members pour out of the truck, but sniper fire drives them back!
Also, a 'post guard' option would be nice, which allows you to start at the front during a siege, with the siegers outside.
This is the sort of thing I had in mind for sniper rifles as well. I think sniper rifles and any sort of anti-tank rocket would be weapons that you don't actually carry into combat like other weapons, but have unique rules governing their use.
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I like to break the siege as soon as it starts, it more predictable, but I only do it if I have enough people to kill everyone before they can shoot back.
I don't really like the idea of setting up people, I think it should be automatic. I like the idea of non-government sieges being repealed though, like CCS and Mercs being driven off by sniper fire.
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I like to break the siege as soon as it starts, it more predictable, but I only do it if I have enough people to kill everyone before they can shoot back.
I don't really like the idea of setting up people, I think it should be automatic. I like the idea of non-government sieges being repealed though, like CCS and Mercs being driven off by sniper fire.
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I was originally thinking that, but CCS attacks are supposed to be surprises, so the only way a sniper would be up in the tower would be if he was guarding that post.
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We could just say the sniper starts shooting at them after the start shooting at the doors and then drives them off.
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Yes, but how is there a guarantee he has his rifle ready, is in a position for sniping, and is even there in the first place? With it being automatic, that would be too easy.
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Well as long the LCS doesn't engage it should be easy to drive them off, being shot at by a high power rifle should scare off anyone without nerves of steel. (Or a dirty government raiders.)
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Well as long the LCS doesn't engage it should be easy to drive them off, being shot at by a high power rifle should scare off anyone without nerves of steel. (Or a dirty government raiders.)
I think you miss my point, that there is no guarantee that the sniper will be ready to defend. He may be off somewhere else, he could be in the bathroom, he probably won't have his rifle with him in the first place. I think of it as there being about a thirty second window between when the CCS starts down the street and when they enter the compound.
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Its best not to over think things like this. And weren't you someone who opposed the idea of having a chance of liberals not going on a mission because they're busy? This is the same thing.
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Its best not to over think things like this. And weren't you someone who opposed the idea of having a chance of liberals not going on a mission because they're busy? This is the same thing.
My main issue is that having libs snipe automatically would be too easy. And no, that wasn't me.
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It wasn't? Oh, sorry then.
Well, if we want to talk about things being to easy because there could be different circumstances, the bank robberies shouldn't be possible 100% of the time, cracking into the armories in the game shouldn't be possible with security skill, and plan just about every single action in the game shouldn't go the way it should either.
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My own sense is that I don't think having a sniper should prevent the CCS from raiding you, regardless of whether you have to appoint one or not. They could soften up the raid perhaps, do other things -- but they shouldn't prevent the drama of a raid entirely, just give you an advantage.
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It wasn't? Oh, sorry then.
Well, if we want to talk about things being to easy because there could be different circumstances, the bank robberies shouldn't be possible 100% of the time, cracking into the armories in the game shouldn't be possible with security skill, and plan just about every single action in the game shouldn't go the way it should either.
Bank robberies aren't possible 100% of the time. Go there with high security and have some fun.
edit: I agree with you in keeping it simple, random fails aren't fun
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My own sense is that I don't think having a sniper should prevent the CCS from raiding you, regardless of whether you have to appoint one or not. They could soften up the raid perhaps, do other things -- but they shouldn't prevent the drama of a raid entirely, just give you an advantage.
That was another suggestion I had, one less person to kill if you feel like fighting them outright instead of them coming in.
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I suppose you could use Snipers in safehouses during sieges to do counter-sniping, thereby neutralizing a police attempt to snipe you, if you succeed you disable police snipers for a couple of days, if not, there is a risk of your sniper getting shot and wounded.
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My own sense is that I don't think having a sniper should prevent the CCS from raiding you, regardless of whether you have to appoint one or not. They could soften up the raid perhaps, do other things -- but they shouldn't prevent the drama of a raid entirely, just give you an advantage.
And THAT is what I was thinking of. Snipers would have a chance to prevent Government special-teams people shutting things off, removing tank traps, etc. (Counter-sniper ought to require high Stealth as well as high Rifle.)
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I guess they'd attack with rifle skill and defend with stealth skill. Countering enemy snipers was the first sniper thing I thought of, and preventing the army from removing your tank traps and such sounds great as well. Later, they could be expanded to assassination type things and maybe supporting site raids from the opposite building. Like, send a sniper to the Cable News Station before the assault squad comes in, and he'll have a chance of occasionally shooting conservatives you're fighting? I'm not sure if that'd make sense. The current site layouts don't really go into the whole business of windows.
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Bloody hell.
I just built three new maps (two of which were two-story), without starting from the Nuclear Plant. Imagine my surprise when I found that the Squad starts out in the middle of nowhere, with the building nowhere to be found. Is there a "Starting Location" that needs set or something?
???
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Bloody hell.
I just built three new maps (two of which were two-story), without starting from the Nuclear Plant. Imagine my surprise when I found that the Squad starts out in the middle of nowhere, with the building nowhere to be found. Is there a "Starting Location" that needs set or something?
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Oh... the squad starts in the center top of the map, same place as on all the other maps. However, I could implement a start location special without too much difficulty.
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Fox, we love ye but "center top of the map" isn't actually an easy location to find in DAME, Especially when I'm not ripping off your Nuclear Plant because I don't want all the structures to look the same. I've spent most of tonight trying to move the maps so that the squad's invisible starting position is outside the front door. (Mucking about with a test squad revealed that I was 1 & 3 tiles outside the Exit perimeter.)
And DAME has been hanging on the Load lua again. >( Fortunately I was able to recover the non-saved layouts for the news stations & PD second floor after the first export; importing map data from .csv works fine here.
Here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cbdzuecj5x9iktb/gy8OPFdeTj . Let me know if these are what you're looking for, bearing in mind that they're glitchy at best and not really ready for prime time.
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Fox, we love ye but "center top of the map" isn't actually an easy location to find in DAME, Especially when I'm not ripping off your Nuclear Plant because I don't want all the structures to look the same. I've spent most of tonight trying to move the maps so that the squad's invisible starting position is outside the front door. (Mucking about with a test squad revealed that I was 1 & 3 tiles outside the Exit perimeter.)
I'm sorry it was frustrating. You can use the crossed arrows tools at the top to select and move pieces of map around.
And DAME has been hanging on the Load lua again. >( Fortunately I was able to recover the non-saved layouts for the news stations & PD second floor after the first export; importing map data from .csv works fine here.
Here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cbdzuecj5x9iktb/gy8OPFdeTj . Let me know if these are what you're looking for, bearing in mind that they're glitchy at best and not really ready for prime time.
Ugh, yeah, I haven't been able to load from your .dam file either, some XML read error. Thankfully, I've found the thing you were talking about with importing map data from .csv -- so handy, that. Yes, I like these; I think the alarm system you have in the Radio Station is very amusing. :) It sounds like you're looking for encouragement and suggestions. For the second part, here are my notes:
1. For the police station, the post-processor for the maps will extend secure areas to fill all adjacent non-secure tiles and lock doors between secure and unsecure areas. So the stairs will be secured and locked off on the first floor, with non-secure areas on the upper floor, as it's currently set up.
2. Was it your intent to have a second floor room full of secure grass tiles in the radio station?
3. As a convention, I usually fill inaccessible parts of the map with walls. This is only really important when you get sleeper maps, and the rule can be broken when done intentionally; for the White House maps, for example, I have a largeish courtyard area you can't reach that is there just to give "context" when you have the location sleeper-mapped.
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I know about the green-arrow tool already: that's what I was using. Problem with Center-Top was that it's an unmarked position in the map window, so squads were starting on the far side of the exit grid, offset from the door, embedded in a wall, all sorts of drek. ;_;
I had an XML problem once but most of the issue here has been getting DAME to export. The heady days of being able to hotfix the Courthouse appear over.
Encouragement, not so much. Clarification on what works and what doesn't, yeah. So far as I can tell people liked the Courthouse because I could point to areas and say "this is the law library", "here are some courtrooms", "lookit the fire exits", and "Realism: the metal detector". So, trying to achieve similar results with the media & police.
Re alarmed doors: I'm using them as fire exits. It's important to design the building from both the gamer and the Conservative Daily Use perspective. In the event of a fire, it's important to get people down the stairs in a hurry (if LCS can handle multiple upstairs/downstairs on a floor, I might have one on each side of a large building or somesuch). So, there's a fire door from the newsroom...which happens to be extremely convenient for Liberals fleeing in a hurry.
1) OK, I'll redo that hallway. Public is supposed to be able to access the Chief's offices and the prisoner-processing on the second floor.
2) Yes. That's the exterior roof; antennae, satellite dishes, etc. Incidentally: I'd intended the grass outside the Courthouse to be secure too, with a "Keep Off The Grass" sign. But that didn't seem to work, probably for the same post-processing reasons you mentioned in 1. (And yes, you should be able to be Death Squadded for walking on the grass.)
3) Yeah. Wasn't sure whether leaving the sidewalk/parking visible would emulate windows...and I wasn't in the mood to mess with it and finagle the exporter to slam out another version at 2 AM. Easy enough to change.
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I'd intended the grass outside the Courthouse to be secure too, with a "Keep Off The Grass" sign. But that didn't seem to work, probably for the same post-processing reasons you mentioned in 1. (And yes, you should be able to be Death Squadded for walking on the grass.)
I feel obligated to post this:
(http://i.imgur.com/EGbZrnh.png)
And yes, that is a real image. You can see multiple pics of it on the Internet, and that squished bottle is the same in most of them.
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Thanks for that, tahujdt.
DAME is losing the Specials layers again. (=no Specials tiles displayed or available for a given location; here, the Bank, Police Station, and Radio Station 2F.) Had that problem with the Bank for a while but now it appears to be spreading. Throws an error 1009 or somesuch when I try to reimport from the .csv; let me know and I'll screencap if you'd like.
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Thanks for that, tahujdt.
DAME is losing the Specials layers again. (=no Specials tiles displayed or available for a given location; here, the Bank, Police Station, and Radio Station 2F.) Had that problem with the Bank for a while but now it appears to be spreading. Throws an error 1009 or somesuch when I try to reimport from the .csv; let me know and I'll screencap if you'd like.
I didn't write DAME and don't maintain it, so I wouldn't be able to do much to fix bugs in it, even with a screencap. :(
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Thanks for that, tahujdt.
DAME is losing the Specials layers again. (=no Specials tiles displayed or available for a given location; here, the Bank, Police Station, and Radio Station 2F.) Had that problem with the Bank for a while but now it appears to be spreading. Throws an error 1009 or somesuch when I try to reimport from the .csv; let me know and I'll screencap if you'd like.
I find it easiest to just edit the CSVs directly with something like excel. Laying down some conditional formatting to highligh cells makes it really easy to visualize, so all you really have to do is look up the numbers for the special you want to put down.