Bay 12 Games Forum
Other Projects => Curses => Topic started by: KA101 on May 07, 2013, 05:45:40 pm
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I've sent Liberals to the Uni Hospital from time to time (my LCS can afford it) but never noticed a financial hit for their care. Is there a screen I missed, L+ Health Care that doesn't bill the LCS, or was it just abstracted out somehow?
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I don't think you've ever needed to pay to use the hospital in LCS.
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I'd call that a beneficial bug. Sorry, but without paying I'm not sure why one wouldn't route everyone to the Hospital.
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It would make sense, but would also be yet another example of "game getting easier as your squad gets stronger"
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I'd say there should be a "Health Care System" issue, which would affect how fast would both hospitals work.
The University Hospital (or equivalent paid institutions) would provide fast and efficient services at a price (which would rise, the more liberal health care laws become), while the Free Clinic would provide less effective (if not L+) services for free. (Of course, this runs under an assumption that non-sleeping LCS members, having no official job, wouldn't have health insurance. I may be wrong, as I'm not an American.)
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C+: The health care system is fully privatized, with no government benefits.
The Free Clinic doesn't work at all.
C: The health care system mostly relies on private insurance.
The Free Clinic provides basic care, twice as slow.
M: While some benefits are in order, health care is still expensve for most.
The Free Clinic works 1.5 times as slow as paid hospitals.
L: An extensive set of benefits provides affordable health care for those in need.
The Free Clinic works _almost_ as effectively as the paid hospitals. (1.25 times as slow)
L+: A universal single payer health care system is in order.
The paid hospitals disappear, while the Free Clinic finally catches up in quality.
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I like it. Especially because the new screen is uneven and is setting off my OCD.
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Eureka, I've got it:
Health Care
C+: Only the top income bracket can afford health care, and medicine is restricted to those who can pay for it by law. (Effect: University Hospital is extremely expensive, around 10000$ per patient, but has a 100% heal rate. The Free Clinic is a Suicide Clinic, and the only reason Liberals can be sent there is to die.)
C: Health care is very expensive and virtually no compassion exists on the subject. (Effect: University Hospital is expensive, about 5000$ per patient, and has a 90% treatment rate. The Free Clinic is overcrowded by those who cannot afford real health care, and only has a 20% chance of providing treatment. If the liberal's injuries are immediately life threatening and this roll is failed, they die.
M: Most people cannot afford professional health care, and government programs on the subject are lacking. (Effect: University Hospital costs 1000$ per patient and has an 80% heal rate. The Free Clinic has a 30% heal rate.
L: Extensive government health care programs ensure that the vast majority of people can get treatment. (Effect: University Hospital costs 100$ per patient and has a 70% heal rate. The Free Clinic has a 40% heal rate.)
L+: Health care has been nationalized, and all people are guaranteed free treatment. (Effect: Nationalized Hospital is free and has a 50% heal rate. The Free Clinic and University Hospital no longer exist.)
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I think Liberal medicine should be objectively better than Conservative medicine, to keep with the spirit of the game. Buff the Nationalized Hospital. Other than that, I like it. :)
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No way. This is one of many things that need to be included to keep the difficulty of LCS constant.
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What about having a chance for wanted Liberals to get arrested while in the hospital?
If someone is wounded in a shootout with the police, they're probably going to be checking the hospitals later.
L+ Privacy Laws would, of course, prevent this. Elite Liberals take their doctor-patient confidentiality VERY seriously, after all.
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I like the latter of the two better. Nothing like that happens in LCS, if anything the game gets easier as things turn more liberal.
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No way. This is one of many things that need to be included to keep the difficulty of LCS constant.
I don't think it affects difficulty that much. In L+ society, you generally aren't getting injured that much. There's less fighting going on, and your squads usually have fairly good skills and armour at that point. The difficulty curve has always been wonky, and you'll some drastic changes to fix it. If fixing it is even necessary, that is. Personally, I think L+ society should be utopian, even if it makes the game easier. Flavour over balance.
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It isn't supposed to be utopian, it's supposed to be Elite Liberal. The game is viewed through the delusional lens of the the LCS, making the proper flavor "surface utopian, but actually not".
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Maybe a Liberal in an Elite Liberal hospital would receive not only medical care, but also counseling for whatever deep sated issues they may have, which would cause them to be disillusioned with the LCS "Well Intentioned Extremist" actions... I.E. Losing juice, and possibly leaving the squad if it gets too low.
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It isn't supposed to be utopian, it's supposed to be Elite Liberal. The game is viewed through the delusional lens of the the LCS, making the proper flavor "surface utopian, but actually not".
I disagree with that. The central idea of the game is that kidnapping and brainwashing innocent people, robbing banks and engaging in shootouts with the police can make the country more liberal. To me, that implies that the world in general works like the Symbionese Liberation Army thought it worked. You know, believing that terrorist tactics are sure to swing the public opinion in their favour, and that the ends justify the means and so on. I think L+ society is the best society possible because the LCS believes it will be, and in this game, the LCS is right.
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By the time the society is L, not L+, my LCS members are only opening the doors, spray painting and going out to remind the people that they are watching. They even surrender to the authorities afterwards because i like not even been wanted. By that time my grip of the legal system can let me walk off a couple of treason charges.(Dunno about murder, since i usually never fire a bullet.) Then i tell the people all about it in the guardian and lead public opinion to L+. I always assumed that the more liberal the society, the less violent the LCS becomes. Grimith has a video with a solo run on youtube, i don't think he shoots or kidnaps anybody either. He seduces some CEO's to speed up the late game and that's it. It totally works starting from nightmare too, it is easier in fact because mutants with 16 charisma don't need anything else. One of them is enough to seduce everyone you will ever need in court at 200 juice, that is with a clean criminal record.
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I've sent Liberals to the Uni Hospital from time to time (my LCS can afford it) but never noticed a financial hit for their care. Is there a screen I missed, L+ Health Care that doesn't bill the LCS, or was it just abstracted out somehow?
Yes, L+ Health Care must have slipped past the Conservative radar.
Implementing some kind of cost for patching up Liberals wounded in the name of Liberalism might make earning money somewhat more of an issue. Treating injuries outside a hospital should also incur some costs (for bandages, drugs, etc).
Oh, yes, and a C+ health care anyone who cannot pay their excessive hospital bills should be chopped up for organ donations for the rich. :o Welcome to the Conservative nightmare.
I also think the difficulty curve is ... wonky. Some things could be done to address this, for example making earning money even harder as the country becomes more liberal (this mechanic is already somewhat present in the donations/music/art/brownies activities). Make the pawn shop pay less, embezzlement pay less (because more money is taxed away), credit card fraud pay less, etc.
Also, give the public opinion serious hits towards conservative if the LCS is caught committing unliberal crimes (possessing/using weapons, etc).
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Making it harder to earn money wouldn't address difficulty curve issues much - it'd just make the opening game a little harder. The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.
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Making it harder to earn money wouldn't address difficulty curve issues much - it'd just make the opening game a little harder.
Well, making money should become harder as the laws move towards L+. This mechanism is already somewhat implemented in the game - selling brownies and art/music/donations become less profitable.
The opening game wouldn't necessarily become harder. At the beginning of the game, there should be plenty of ways to make money, but you'll have to pick carefully since your skills are still low. Later in the game, you have better skills, but you will need them in order to still turn a profit.
The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.
Well, womens rights makes a difference, depending on whether your Liberal is male or female. The percentage of female NPCs changes with the womens rights - at C+ you won't find female police officers/scientists/hangin' judges/etc.
If the LCS' hideouts were occasionally targetted by gangs and other criminals (to steal stuff or eliminate competition in the brownie business), liberal police and gun laws might also make the game harder - at C+, you'll have a fast police response and you'll be allowed to shoot the attackers (castle doctrine & guns are legal), while at L+ the police response will be slow and ineffective, and don't you dare shoot the attackers since you'll have a duty to flee and guns are illegal anyway.
Also, with C+ gay rights it could be possible to blackmail anyone you seduced successfully (though attempting to seduce someone of the same sex should be illegal). As the law becomes more liberal, this option disappears.
At L+ animal rights laws, attacking animals (even guard dogs) should be a crime.
At L+ privacy laws, secrets (files, memos, etc) should be harder to obtain..
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Well they do make a difference, but not one which makes the game harder. I guess you could say having pollution and nuclear power moving away from C+ also makes the game harder since you can't recruit super-mutants anymore.
e: Police Negotiators also mean you lose a bit of juice if you shoot at them, but it's not really a major thing and most of my liberals are immune to them by that point anyway.
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Uh, one of the major benefits to Nightmare Mode is the C+ Drug Policy making brownies 4x as valuable as they typically would be. Pretty confident that they aren't that worthwhile at L+ when marijuana is legal.
I'd say Stand Your Ground is the C+/C ROE. Castle doctrine seems closer to C/M.
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I'd say Stand Your Ground is the C+/C ROE. Castle doctrine seems closer to C/M.
Yeah, self-defense laws are probably like this:
C+: Stand Your Ground
C: Castle doctrine in effect
m: Reasonable self-defense allowed
L: Duty to retreat
L+: Duty to retreat once you've helped the criminals with whatever they were doing. ;D
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At L+ animal rights laws, attacking animals (even guard dogs) should be a crime.
Hah. I just found the place in the code where it does actually count killing animal at L+ animal rights as murder. TDTTOE ....
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The main issue really is that, with the sole exception of Gun Control, every issue turning more L either makes the game easier for you or doesn't make much of a difference.
Hm, with Flag Burning at C+, flying flags gives 10% extra secrecy.