Bay 12 Games Forum

Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: werty892 on September 20, 2013, 08:12:46 pm

Title: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: werty892 on September 20, 2013, 08:12:46 pm
ERMEGURD ITS HAPPENING (http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/)


ENABLE SPECULATION BEAMS.

My theory. First is SteamOS, Second is SteamBox, or something with the PS4. And 3rd is cross platform play?

Obligatory Half Life 3 Confirmed.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Cthulhu on September 20, 2013, 08:20:54 pm
Sounds like a steam-based console yeah.  That'd be pretty sweet I guess, but I already have one and I'm typing on it right now.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: lemon10 on September 20, 2013, 08:24:20 pm
I don't think that it will be Half-Life Episode 3. And if/when it isn't, all the 3's are simply to troll people who will say that the 3's are there to signify that it is HL3.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Metalax on September 20, 2013, 08:50:37 pm
I suspect that at least part of this will be the beta launch of the "family library sharing" (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/familysharing) that popped up a week and a half ago. SteamBox will likely be one of the other parts. Not sure on the third, possibly something to do with cats judging by the bottom of that page.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: freeformschooler on September 20, 2013, 09:11:05 pm
Looking forward to FAMILY LIBRARY SHARING. It seems like a fun idea.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Thexor on September 20, 2013, 09:16:27 pm
It's clearly a console announcement. I mean: they directly talk about the Big Picture technology, rumours of a 'Steam Box' have beel flying around for months, there's a controller on the website, and the website URL is "livingroom".

The interesting claim, from my perspective, is from Reddit. Apparently, Valve have no fewer than three big announcements for Monday. Obviously, the Steam Box is one of them. Perhaps family library sharing is a second. But what's the third?Assuming Valve can actually count to three...
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: ibot66 on September 20, 2013, 09:21:49 pm
Well, they do need a big name title to launch sales of the console...
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: BunnyBob77 on September 20, 2013, 09:29:53 pm
I don't know what it is, but I bet it will be less exciting than we expect.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: DaveTheGrave on September 20, 2013, 09:39:53 pm
3 days, three anouncements, 3 dot things on the site.

Half Life 3 confirmed.

Fuck you gabe.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Ozyton on September 20, 2013, 09:56:55 pm
"Steam Universe"

Really? @_@
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 21, 2013, 03:19:43 am
Well, Portal and HL take place in the same universe...

Ermagerd, it IS HL3!
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Leonon on September 21, 2013, 03:22:12 am
You guys know they aren't going to announce HL3, right?

They're going to wait until April 1st and release it with no fanfare or build up, just to screw with us.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Shadowlord on September 21, 2013, 05:35:21 am
Cat Life 3 confirmed? (And 2 and 1, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.)

(Just look at that picture!)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2013, 06:07:16 am
Interesting, but can I plug my keyboard in it?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 23, 2013, 01:02:25 pm
First announcement is SteamOS.

Makes the second announcement obvious, that being the Steambox for the SteamOS.

Third announcement is...? Half Life 3 released on Sega Saturn as a Japan only exclusive.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 23, 2013, 01:25:51 pm
Wait, so when are the other two announcments happening?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Silent_Thunder on September 23, 2013, 01:28:21 pm
Wait, so when are the other two announcments happening?

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

Its got a countdown timer and everything. Around 2 days from now is the next one.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 23, 2013, 01:42:07 pm
Wait, so when are the other two announcments happening?

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

Its got a countdown timer and everything. Around 2 days from now is the next one.

Ah, thanks, missed that. 2 days? I don't have this kind of patience.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 23, 2013, 02:08:19 pm
First announcement is SteamOS.

Makes the second announcement obvious, that being the Steambox for the SteamOS.
Announcement is pretty obviously Steambox related. I don't think there will really be a "SteamOS", Gaben showed up at Linux Con talking about how he thinks Linux is the future of gaming, so I'd be willing to bet Steambox will be Linux-based, even if it boots out of the box with a steam wrapper of some kind.

Now, Half Life 3 coming out some time after the Steam Box does and being playable on it would make a lot of sense, but then again it would have made a lot of sense to release HL3 years ago.

But yeah, Steambox running on Linux. Bonus points if it comes out right in the same season as the two main next gen consoles and at a cheaper price point.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on September 23, 2013, 02:10:35 pm
Third announcement is...? Half Life 3 released on Sega Saturn as a Japan only exclusive.

Seems legit. HL 3 confirmed.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 23, 2013, 02:10:40 pm
I was not speculating lol... It is SteamOS.

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Hugehead on September 23, 2013, 02:11:15 pm
First announcement is SteamOS.

Makes the second announcement obvious, that being the Steambox for the SteamOS.
Announcement is pretty obviously Steambox related. I don't think there will really be a "SteamOS", Gaben showed up at Linux Con talking about how he thinks Linux is the future of gaming, so I'd be willing to bet Steambox will be Linux-based, even if it boots out of the box with a steam wrapper of some kind.
That's exactly what the page says.
Quote
SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Silent_Thunder on September 23, 2013, 02:22:27 pm
First announcement is SteamOS.

Makes the second announcement obvious, that being the Steambox for the SteamOS.
Announcement is pretty obviously Steambox related. I don't think there will really be a "SteamOS", Gaben showed up at Linux Con talking about how he thinks Linux is the future of gaming, so I'd be willing to bet Steambox will be Linux-based, even if it boots out of the box with a steam wrapper of some kind.
That's exactly what the page says.
Quote
SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen.

Yep it's a Linux build specifically geared towards gaming. It also can stream games over a local network from a Windows PC, so you can play your Windows games on it, indirectly. Which all but confirms there's going to be a SteamBox to go with it. (Otherwise why stream? You'd just be dual booting instead)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 23, 2013, 02:31:27 pm
A linux distro geared specifically to gaming sounds pretty neat to me.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 23, 2013, 03:25:56 pm
A linux distro geared specifically to gaming sounds pretty neat to me.
I'm actually kind of curious how this works. I considered going Linux, but didn't mostly because WINE seemed like too much of a hassle and not as efficient/buggy with some games, compared to just running Windows.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 23, 2013, 03:31:59 pm
A linux distro geared specifically to gaming sounds pretty neat to me.
I'm actually kind of curious how this works. I considered going Linux, but didn't mostly because WINE seemed like too much of a hassle and not as efficient/buggy with some games, compared to just running Windows.
Probably, it doesn't. I honestly doubt it'll suddenly be able to run all Windows games. Valve is just trying to force a standardized platform, in order to make porting easier.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 23, 2013, 03:35:18 pm
I think they're just focusing on a unified game streaming solution for now. The amount of work and licensing that would have to be done to transform a Linux distro into an acceptable Windows equivalent for gaming would be pretty insane. Just doing something for Directx alone would be a massive undertaking.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on September 23, 2013, 06:46:59 pm
Going off of what I think are hints with the icons, the first is revealed to be SteamOS and is a circle. The second is likely this "SteamBox", a branded computer hardware bundle that comes with the operating system and an attempt at making a standardized gaming computer, similar to consoles, that developers will use. If successful, it'd annul one of the advantages of console gaming, which is standardized hardware (if you own the console, it will play any game released for it).

The third circle, two circles with a plus sign in-between, is an attempt to throw people off of the first circle and the second circle in a box. Instead of the circle relating to the SteamOS, I believe that it's going to be a specialized gamepad controller (the circles being analog sticks, the plus sign representing either the dpad or the four buttons). A lot of people just use XBox controllers, but seeing that Steam is making their own OS and their own potential console for computer gaming (my guess), all they're missing for the living room is the other advantage of console gaming: some games just work better with controllers. Every console release also comes with a controller release, and I bet the logic is that they should release a controller as well, as the XBox controller was never designed with PC gaming in mind (not that it necessarily needed to, but whatever).

If I'm right, I'm hella excited. I'm a fan of console games but have never been into the console scene, and I support the PC side of the whole console vs. PC thing. This will remove a bunch of wind from the sails of the console argument (which I acknowledge and agree with), AND, it opens up the potential to see what would otherwise be console exclusives on this new standardized PC platform. I'm not sure where I stand with relation to Valve, but considering the outrageous success of Steam, I actually think they could pull this off. I'm rooting for them.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: ductape on September 23, 2013, 09:17:52 pm
meh
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 23, 2013, 09:24:21 pm
As others have said, a steam console wouldn't significantly appeal to people who already have gaming computers. It would be a lot more about expanding Steam's market. Of course, if it's somehow more cost-effective than custom building a gaming desktop, hey, I'd still be interested. But that's not incredibly likely.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Bouchart on September 23, 2013, 10:29:28 pm
I'm thinking that Ricochet 2 is somewhere on the horizon.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on September 23, 2013, 10:36:26 pm
Do they really lose anything by going into the market, though? Razor owns the top of the market, Alienware has pretty much lost its luster (or as much as I can gather, anyway), and I don't see anyone controlling the middle of the market (I consider Dell and the like to own the bottom of the market). They could make a big move to appeal to a broad audience with mid-range to mid-high range specs that game designers design around which would likely guarantee sales. Given that there are still developers releasing games for pretty darn old hardware at this point (Rockstar and GTA V comes to mind), a potential SteamBox computer could also have a guaranteed longevity. Sure it wouldn't appeal to people who have gaming computers. I wouldn't buy one, as I've got my rig and I will probably only ever buy my own parts and assemble my own computers. However, it might appeal to a lot of other people, like the sort who only play on consoles and don't want to deal with all the different PC specs. It could be an attempt to create a standard for the PC Gaming industry. That's a pretty big deal.

I understand it's a whole lot of conjecture on my part, I'm just saying that it sounds reasonable, and if they go in the direction I'm thinking they are, it could be really successful.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 23, 2013, 10:39:01 pm
Have patience. Tomorrow we shall know if they plan to compete with consoles or with PCs.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: ductape on September 23, 2013, 10:41:23 pm
Im actually excited to what this might do for Linux software. Having games built to run on linux right out of the gate will change a lot for the red headed step-child of OS's, and I think thats great.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Bouchart on September 23, 2013, 11:37:27 pm
Eh, there are already so many Linux distros that I can't imagine another one having much of an impact.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 12:19:18 am
Eh, I still want to know if this SteamBox will be a Micro PC (like that wossname, the Piston or whatever it was) or a Console.

Now, Seeing as how one of the pictures they used in the SteamOS launch was from Rome 2, and these sort of games are notoriously difficult to play with a controller, I think it's more likely to be a Micro PC. But then again, we'll just have to sit and wait.

And please, please make it look like Xi3's Piston. Because that thing looks sweet.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 24, 2013, 12:33:52 am
Eh, I still want to know if this SteamBox will be a Micro PC (like that wossname, the Piston or whatever it was) or a Console.
Frankly I don't see what the big difference is. They talk about Big Picture, which is just a gamepad interface for Steam. I imagine their steam OS will have controller support from bootup like a console, and that will be the biggest difference compared to any other linux distro. That aside there's absolutely no reason for them not to include M+KB support, even if most of the new work they're doing is to not require it. If it's linux based, I'd expect it to do pretty much everything linux could do normally, including, say, office programs and web browsing.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 12:39:45 am
Eh, I still want to know if this SteamBox will be a Micro PC (like that wossname, the Piston or whatever it was) or a Console.
Frankly I don't see what the big difference is. They talk about Big Picture, which is just a gamepad interface for Steam. I imagine their steam OS will have controller support from bootup like a console, and that will be the biggest difference compared to any other linux distro. That aside there's absolutely no reason for them not to include M+KB support, even if most of the new work they're doing is to not require it. If it's linux based, I'd expect it to do pretty much everything linux could do normally, including, say, office programs and web browsing.
The difference between a console and a micro PC is that a micro PC still has some versatility. You can plug in a keyboard and a mouse and play with those if you so desire. And it will most likely have web browsing. It's not entirely a console (purely gaming and bullshit social media nowadays) but not entirely a PC (much more focused on gaming).

The thing is that SteamOS will most likely support the entire Steam gaming library without having to use WINE. While not a big deal and truly something that does not bother most Linux users, for some it just might be the tipping point to make them switch to a Linux-based OS.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on September 24, 2013, 12:58:51 am
They mentioned better graphical results from their software. Essentially, with the OS, they are streamlining everything so that they get maximum gaming performance on the software side. Instead of getting operating systems that have a bunch of programs running in the background, a bunch of features that are hardly used, etc. etc., this would be specifically designed for gaming to free up as much power for processing and memory allocation as possible, and make drivers as easy to code and use as possible. It's all about software efficiency. Sure, they can still have word processors, web browsing, etc., but they would simply be extra stuff you could do. They wouldn't be the focus. I think gamers would appreciate that.

The next step would be to streamline the hardware. I heard that Playstation 2 emulators used to have so much trouble on PCs because the PS2's hardware and software were designed so efficiently that even more powerful specs-wise PCs couldn't handle it. Hence the (potential) SteamBox.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 01:05:46 am
Sure, they can still have word processors, web browsing, etc., but they would simply be extra stuff you could do. They wouldn't be the focus. I think gamers would appreciate that.
Well, I want access to the internet to check guides, mods and whatnot. The only thing I really need is an internet browser and I can also do word processing, presentations and all that stuff.

But yeah, the gist is having what is basically a purely gaming-oriented machine for the masses. If a person wants a gaming computer, they can jolly well build it themselves, but most people don't have the money or knowledge to do it. This should be a nice alternative.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 24, 2013, 01:13:28 am
It was primarily because consoles were built with different architecture. Think of it as them being programmed for different OSes in a different language on weird hardware.

Hard to emulate so many things at once.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 24, 2013, 01:19:48 am
It's not like consoles CAN'T support keyboards. Hell, I had a keyboard attachment to go with my original Xbox. The limitations of consoles are pretty much invented, and related to their firmware. I wouldn't expect SteamOS to be anything other than a lightweight gaming-oriented Linux distro with full controller support. They have no reason to artificially add the limitations normally ascribed to consoles. Just throw a bunch of USB ports on the sucker, and you're completely covered. The support for other programs is already there because Linux.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 24, 2013, 05:51:44 am
My bet is it's going to be something similar to the Nvidia Shield thing. It'll be a basic PC with mediocre specs, but will lean on the abilitiy to stream all your games from your pc.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Shadowgandor on September 24, 2013, 06:07:24 am
My bet is it's going to be something similar to the Nvidia Shield thing. It'll be a basic PC with mediocre specs, but will lean on the abilitiy to stream all your games from your pc.

That's what I'm betting too. Compared to the onLive idea, this one isn't depending on a fast internet connection as you can directly plug a cable between the PC and the box.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 24, 2013, 09:31:11 am
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 24, 2013, 09:44:54 am
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?


Didn't they speciffically say they had 3 major announcments though?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Silent_Thunder on September 24, 2013, 10:33:43 am
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?


Didn't they speciffically say they had 3 major announcments though?

But we all know Valve can't count to 3!  :P
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Fayrik on September 24, 2013, 11:25:24 am
The thing is that SteamOS will most likely support the entire Steam gaming library without having to use WINE. While not a big deal and truly something that does not bother most Linux users, for some it just might be the tipping point to make them switch to a Linux-based OS.
I highly doubt this. Most source games are linux compatible already... And frankly, if Steam were to try and make it's OS "NT Compatable", we probably would have heard SOME sort of legal fallout already.
Anyone who has used WINE should have noticed it's not exactly got the highest compatibility rate, and anyone who has used it extensively will know they've worked bloody hard to get it that far. There's absolutely no way Steam could go one better than WINE without making a large business deal with Microsoft... Or working with the WINE team themselves. (Which is frankly a possibility.)

Aside from the idea of a WINE collaboration (which has great prospects outside of gaming), or the idea of a deal with Microsoft, that is largely counter-intuitive, I find the whole concept of a SteamOS slightly worrying.

Firstly, I'd like to point out this is yet another nail in the already dead and buried coffin of privacy. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the EULA will enable them to screen watch whenever.
Also, isn't it a bit ironic that in Gabe's attempt to "fight the evil of Windows 8", he has inadvertently created something that has the possibility (I say again, possibility,) to be just as bad. It's like fighting evil with evil.

Secondly, as much as it talks about Linux, I have a deep feeling that it's not really going to perform like a good Linux system at all. I was slightly disgusted when I bought an android phone, and then had to spend over 20 minutes of literally hacking the thing to access the bash. And that's from an open source operating system.
I honestly doubt they're going to have time to make SteamOS nearly as functional... Which is a big selling point. Or not selling point.
See, yes, this could be just something to slap on a Steambox to put under the telly, but even so, the strong point of steam as a gaming platform, so far, has been that while you can game on it, as a windows, mac or other (probably GNU) Linux system, you can hide steam and go do something else, like write a CV or launch a DDOS attack on that Gmod server 'cos the admin pissed you off.
If the SteamOS is just for playing games, it's going to fail hard, as no one will want that on their main machine and anyone who wants a "games machine" will go and buy the much more refined xbox or playstation.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 24, 2013, 11:31:29 am
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?
Didn't they speciffically say they had 3 major announcments though?
They can lie. Or work through technicalities.

If the SteamOS is just for playing games, it's going to fail hard, as no one will want that on their main machine and anyone who wants a "games machine" will go and buy the much more refined xbox or playstation.
What is they want to play on PC rather than consoles?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 11:39:30 am
The thing is that SteamOS will most likely support the entire Steam gaming library without having to use WINE. While not a big deal and truly something that does not bother most Linux users, for some it just might be the tipping point to make them switch to a Linux-based OS.
-snip-
While everything you wrote is an entirely legitimate complaint, I highly doubt it will turn out like that in the end.

I do not believe that SteamOS will require constant connection to the internet, nor that installation of Steam will even be mandatory. The whole "Steam" and "Valve-approved" thing is most likely just a gimmick to make it spread a bit faster as an OS.

As for the WINE thing: It wouldn't have surprised me if Valve did make a secret pact with WINE or something similar, but that is just speculation.

Again, what does not help either of the arguments is just how few actual details we are being given. The presentation has been painted with a lot of wide strokes and some key details have been left out. What we have here is pretty much the holy grail for speculators and conspiracy theorists due to all the vital things Valve left out of their presentation. Which is quite possibly just another marketing stunt to make the news spread faster.

We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on September 24, 2013, 12:42:40 pm
Also, unlike onlive... this is connected to STEAAAAAAAAMMMMM. So the games aren't crap.

By the way, apparently Bestbuy is making a switch to amp up their PC gaming section. Check it out: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1n0ndt/as_a_pc_gamerredditorbestbuy_employee_setting/

Quote
I just noticed that my local Best Buy also set up a HUGE PC gaming section. They took away nearly a third of the console section to dedicate specifically to PC gaming. Several brands of awesome gaming accessories, both budget and high-end. Is this a new thing in all Best Buys? I'm really impressed and happy about it.

They probably know what's going to happen hahaha.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 24, 2013, 12:56:40 pm
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?
Didn't they speciffically say they had 3 major announcments though?
They can lie. Or work through technicalities.
It just seems silly to have a big blue sun in the middle of the screen with no aparent connection to anything.

Most people seem to be fairly certain that it's gonna be SteamOS (confirmed), SteamBox and Library Sharing, but maybe the blue sun thingie could be an announcement for Source 2.

I only hope the gaming stores here in Belgium will gear themselves a bit more to PC gaming :/
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 24, 2013, 01:00:36 pm
Library sharing has already been announced. As in, properly announced, unlike SteamOS and Steambox which had only been sort of alluded to as possibilities in the future.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: PanH on September 24, 2013, 01:02:31 pm
From the look of icons, 1st looks like SteamOs (well, it doesn't really look like, but we know now), 2nd like Steambox and 3rd to library sharing or something like that ( 0 + 0 ). At least, that's what I see.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Fayrik on September 24, 2013, 01:13:41 pm
What is they want to play on PC rather than consoles?
(Assuming that is was meant to be if.)
Well, that's sort of my point. If they don't pull their thumb out and make something specific and amazing, it's most likely going to be outshone by everything else in different ways.
Unfortunately the market seems to be leaning towards just buying everything for their major quirks rather than just picking what suits you best... Which renders "mid-way" systems out of the picture.
PCs already have their pros and consoles have their own. There's no way SteamOS is going to outshine something like Mint, Ubuntu or even Android so they're hardly winning on the PC side of things. What makes SteamOS better than the xbox or playstation systems?
...That's at least how I feel it's going to boil down. Though I have a feeling they'll have an ace and they're just hiding it, or paying it no attention. (As always, valve.)

While everything you wrote is an entirely legitimate complaint, I highly doubt it will turn out like that in the end.

I do not believe that SteamOS will require constant connection to the internet, nor that installation of Steam will even be mandatory. The whole "Steam" and "Valve-approved" thing is most likely just a gimmick to make it spread a bit faster as an OS.

As for the WINE thing: It wouldn't have surprised me if Valve did make a secret pact with WINE or something similar, but that is just speculation.

Again, what does not help either of the arguments is just how few actual details we are being given. The presentation has been painted with a lot of wide strokes and some key details have been left out. What we have here is pretty much the holy grail for speculators and conspiracy theorists due to all the vital things Valve left out of their presentation. Which is quite possibly just another marketing stunt to make the news spread faster.

We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Before I start here, I don't like the use of the word complaint. It's more like apprehension. I've not seen anything from valve to be legitimately unhappy, and like everyone else, I'm only speculating.

The thing is, what you've laid out there is practically word for word what I'm hoping for. Unfortunately, the last time I got something I was hoping for like that... Hell I don't even remember it ever happening.
Yeah, my outlooks are grim, but, this is entirely founded on how the technology market has been recently.
Though honestly, I think it's a pretty positive thing when after a couple of years of utter crap, the worst I can say about this is "You don't really want to install it on your main computer."

or something like that ( 0 + 0 )
[ O + O ]
*cough* Sorry.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 24, 2013, 01:20:34 pm
Anyone wanna bet that the Blue Sun is gonna make place for another announcement?
Didn't they speciffically say they had 3 major announcments though?
They can lie. Or work through technicalities.
It just seems silly to have a big blue sun in the middle of the screen with no aparent connection to anything.

Most people seem to be fairly certain that it's gonna be SteamOS (confirmed), SteamBox and Library Sharing, but maybe the blue sun thingie could be an announcement for Source 2.

I only hope the gaming stores here in Belgium will gear themselves a bit more to PC gaming :/
Steam universe expanding + Sun

Seems logic, doesn't it.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 24, 2013, 01:27:42 pm
There's a big problem with visual connection. As far as being a page go the sun is kind of just stood out there in its own frame, making it necessary to scroll down the page to see the actual announcement buttons; but it doesn't actually add anything to the aesthetics of the page.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 24, 2013, 01:54:52 pm
There's a big problem with visual connection. As far as being a page go the sun is kind of just stood out there in its own frame, making it necessary to scroll down the page to see the actual announcement buttons; but it doesn't actually add anything to the aesthetics of the page.
I dunno, they do stuff like that quite often.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 01:58:45 pm
While everything you wrote is an entirely legitimate complaint, I highly doubt it will turn out like that in the end.

I do not believe that SteamOS will require constant connection to the internet, nor that installation of Steam will even be mandatory. The whole "Steam" and "Valve-approved" thing is most likely just a gimmick to make it spread a bit faster as an OS.

As for the WINE thing: It wouldn't have surprised me if Valve did make a secret pact with WINE or something similar, but that is just speculation.

Again, what does not help either of the arguments is just how few actual details we are being given. The presentation has been painted with a lot of wide strokes and some key details have been left out. What we have here is pretty much the holy grail for speculators and conspiracy theorists due to all the vital things Valve left out of their presentation. Which is quite possibly just another marketing stunt to make the news spread faster.

We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Before I start here, I don't like the use of the word complaint. It's more like apprehension. I've not seen anything from valve to be legitimately unhappy, and like everyone else, I'm only speculating.

The thing is, what you've laid out there is practically word for word what I'm hoping for. Unfortunately, the last time I got something I was hoping for like that... Hell I don't even remember it ever happening.
Yeah, my outlooks are grim, but, this is entirely founded on how the technology market has been recently.
Though honestly, I think it's a pretty positive thing when after a couple of years of utter crap, the worst I can say about this is "You don't really want to install it on your main computer."
I apologise for my poor choice in wording.

But this is basically the difference between optimism and pessimism. None of those two outlooks are bad (as I said, your apprehensions are valid and you have every right to feel this way), but I just preffer to not speculate and see what I get when I get it instead of building up opinions based entirely on speculation.

.... and I just worded that poorly again, haven't I?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 24, 2013, 02:04:17 pm
I'm still betting that SteamOS, being the "next evolution from Big Picture", is just a wrapper they have that lets you boot up your Linux device with your controller and go directly to the steam interface.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 02:07:20 pm
I'm still betting that SteamOS, being the "next evolution from Big Picture", is just a wrapper they have that lets you boot up your Linux device with your controller and go directly to the steam interface.
You say that like it is a bad thing.

bad humour aside, it probably will be exactly as you describe it.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 24, 2013, 02:09:18 pm
I didn't mean it to be good or bad, really- on the one hand I don't think it will do anything amazing (unless they get broader and better Linux game support, in which case, fuck yeah) and I don't think it will do anything terrible either.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: PanH on September 24, 2013, 02:10:59 pm
or something like that ( 0 + 0 )
[ O + O ]
*cough* Sorry.
Well, there's just O + O in the circle, my parentheses were ... well parentheses.

Or I'm completely missing your point  :-\
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 24, 2013, 02:14:57 pm
or something like that ( 0 + 0 )
[ O + O ]
*cough* Sorry.
Well, there's just O + O in the circle, my parentheses were ... well parentheses.

Or I'm completely missing your point  :-\
Fayrik might have confused it with the [ O     ]
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 24, 2013, 02:29:32 pm
0+0 is obviously occulas rift support for their entire games librayr (get it? 0+0? looks like goggles?)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Fayrik on September 24, 2013, 02:30:06 pm
I apologise for my poor choice in wording.

But this is basically the difference between optimism and pessimism. None of those two outlooks are bad (as I said, your apprehensions are valid and you have every right to feel this way), but I just preffer to not speculate and see what I get when I get it instead of building up opinions based entirely on speculation.

.... and I just worded that poorly again, haven't I?
I don't see any bad wording there at all.
And, honestly, if you're not going to speculate, that's fine. I on the other hand enjoy running down every piece of information until there's nothing left... Frankly we should have run out of discussion points at least two pages ago but valve seem to have some sort of magic in making everything mysterious and deep.

Fayrik might have confused it with the [ O     ]
This is exactly what happened. I apologize.

I'm still betting that SteamOS, being the "next evolution from Big Picture", is just a wrapper they have that lets you boot up your Linux device with your controller and go directly to the steam interface.
If it were so simple, I would totally put Mint on dual boot on my laptop with that. Freakin' amazing.

In all honesty, I'll probably give it a virtualbox whirl so long as it's interface design doesn't follow that awful design theory that Google, Microsoft and... Everyone seem to enjoy so much. You know the "The user is an idiot and should have all unnecessary options hidden in the most obscure place or removed entirely where possible."
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 24, 2013, 02:38:05 pm
i think it will likely have a sort of a console vibe; everything accessible through menus easily navigatable with a controller.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: werty892 on September 25, 2013, 05:17:41 am
Looks like 6 hours left till the next announcement. That's going to be 1 PM where I am.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 25, 2013, 09:17:42 am
I'd also like to note that the screen containing the sun is called "home_content tv day 1". So it may very well change.
(The buttons are numbered per day, tough. Which isn't that much of an indicator, considering there's more than a day between them.)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on September 25, 2013, 12:04:44 pm
"a variety of Steam gaming machines"

Well that was mildly unexpected. Now, speculations for the third announcement?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 25, 2013, 12:05:16 pm
So it's the consoles. Steamboxes. Yes, plural.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 25, 2013, 12:05:59 pm
Quote
we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.
Related to the next announcement?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 25, 2013, 12:11:50 pm
Quote
we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.
Related to the next announcement?
Oculus rift Support? ... Probably not.

Possibly Valve bringing out it's own virtually reality system. Will we eyeball our shots now, or are we going for tongue controlled hardware?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 25, 2013, 12:12:52 pm
Upgradeable consoles.

Gentlemen, the next step in console evolution has been achieved. And it has nothing to do with that social media bull.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 25, 2013, 12:13:20 pm
Ok, so, it sounds like, reading the FAQ things, that you'll be able to stream from PC for any game that doesn't run on Steam OS, and play games directon the box for those that do. I'm hoping one of the retail options is a cheaper box designed just to stream, because that's all I want. Anyways, very cool. It makes sense, since valve seems to want to promote being very open source with it's things.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 25, 2013, 12:14:38 pm
Quote
Yes, that really is the whole point. The input from testers should come in many forms: bug reports, forum posts, concept art, 3D prints, haikus, and also very publicly stated opinions.

If anybody here gets one of these boxes, all opinions must be in haiku form.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on September 25, 2013, 12:15:26 pm
Upgradeable consoles.

Gentlemen, the next step in console evolution has been achieved. And it has nothing to do with that social media bull.

This. Allowing consoles to be built, hacked or modded is completely unprecedented in the modern console market.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 25, 2013, 12:17:45 pm
Quote
Yes, that really is the whole point. The input from testers should come in many forms: bug reports, forum posts, concept art, 3D prints, haikus, and also very publicly stated opinions.

If anybody here gets one of these boxes, all opinions must be in haiku form.

My family hate this
The console is way too loud
So it stays turned off
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 25, 2013, 12:18:06 pm
Not really.

This is a living room PC. Nothing special has happened. You don't have to treat is as something extraordinary just because they grabbed a PC and taped Console in it.

I like the idea behind it, and greatly encourage them to continue, but it's not like it's world changing.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 25, 2013, 12:21:32 pm
Not really.

This is a living room PC. Nothing special has happened. You don't have to treat is as something extraordinary just because they grabbed a PC and taped Console in it.

I like the idea behind it, and greatly encourage them to continue, but it's not like it's world changing.
Trust me, if you brand it as a console, the mindless sheep that dominate the market will see it as one. Most likely, there will even be flashy speculatory titles in various tabloidal gaming magazines about how "Valve Entered The Console War" with "Stunning New Tech".

Marketing is the key word here.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on September 25, 2013, 12:26:33 pm
Not really.

This is a living room PC. Nothing special has happened. You don't have to treat is as something extraordinary just because they grabbed a PC and taped Console in it.

I like the idea behind it, and greatly encourage them to continue, but it's not like it's world changing.
Trust me, if you brand it as a console, the mindless sheep that dominate the market will see it as one. Most likely, there will even be flashy speculatory titles in various tabloidal gaming magazines about how "Valve Entered The Console War" with "Stunning New Tech".

Marketing is the key word here.

It's true. You can supposedly still use a keyboard with it, so we'll have to wait and see what actually differentiates it from PC's. (If anything)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: scrdest on September 25, 2013, 12:29:07 pm
Not really.

This is a living room PC. Nothing special has happened. You don't have to treat is as something extraordinary just because they grabbed a PC and taped Console in it.

I like the idea behind it, and greatly encourage them to continue, but it's not like it's world changing.
Trust me, if you brand it as a console, the mindless sheep that dominate the market will see it as one. Most likely, there will even be flashy speculatory titles in various tabloidal gaming magazines about how "Valve Entered The Console War" with "Stunning New Tech".

Marketing is the key word here.

It's true. You can supposedly still use a keyboard with it, so we'll have to wait and see what actually differentiates it from PC's. (If anything)

Name. Duh.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 25, 2013, 12:30:37 pm
If this is a conosle, and every console has console exclusive launch titles... I think it's safe to assume that we can expect a release next year of everyones favourite franchise, Dota 3.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Shadowgandor on September 25, 2013, 12:33:39 pm
Upgradeable consoles.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 25, 2013, 12:37:42 pm
Eh, most people will see it as a console just because it is living room-based and can be navigated with only a controller.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Fayrik on September 25, 2013, 02:19:25 pm
To everyone who paid attention to my rather pessimistic rant about the OS: it appears the new FAQ has accidentally given us an offhand confirmation that the "openness" does include at least some source code.

To make this post quicker than my previous ones:
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 25, 2013, 02:20:08 pm
Doesn't the license of Linux include that any OS based on it MUST be the same license or similar (aka open source?)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Silent_Thunder on September 25, 2013, 02:25:11 pm
Ok, so, it sounds like, reading the FAQ things, that you'll be able to stream from PC for any game that doesn't run on Steam OS, and play games directon the box for those that do. I'm hoping one of the retail options is a cheaper box designed just to stream, because that's all I want. Anyways, very cool. It makes sense, since valve seems to want to promote being very open source with it's things.

Seeing how they said you can use the OS on any system, you could stream from a cheapo setup hooked up to the TV. An old laptop with an HDMI port would probably work.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Levi on September 25, 2013, 02:26:41 pm
Doesn't the license of Linux include that any OS based on it MUST be the same license or similar (aka open source?)

I don't think so.  Its more like all the bits of the OS have to be provided for free, and any modifications to the free software also has to be free.  Since nobody has the resources to rewrite all the infrastructure, they sort of have to provide it for free. 

In theory they could provide a "Free install disk" that installs 99% of the distribution and then provide a buyable disk that customizes the remaining 1% with proprietary software, but who would really buy it?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Hugehead on September 25, 2013, 02:28:26 pm
Doesn't the license of Linux include that any OS based on it MUST be the same license or similar (aka open source?)
My understanding is that kernel must be open, but the stuff built on top of it doesn't have to be.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Silent_Thunder on September 25, 2013, 02:37:17 pm
Doesn't that FAQ say you can get and modify the source code for it? I'm not sure what everyone's freaking out about.

On an aside, that blue sun, those funky icons? It looks like cell division to me. Thoughts? The idea to me seems that Steam has grown enough that through fission, it can clone across to the living room and continue to grow.

My money is on them representing what the symbols mean. First one was an OS, second is a box, third one is most likely some sort of controller. They patented a modular controller back in '11. (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110105231) I imagine that is finally coming to fruition.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: LordSlowpoke on September 25, 2013, 02:45:13 pm
i, for one, welcome our new 3-nescient overlords

google's rapidly losing any credit it might have had in my eyes so mayhaps valve will take its time to make me think there's something not going to shit in the future
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on September 25, 2013, 02:45:28 pm
Doesn't that FAQ say you can get and modify the source code for it? I'm not sure what everyone's freaking out about.

On an aside, that blue sun, those funky icons? It looks like cell division to me. Thoughts? The idea to me seems that Steam has grown enough that through fission, it can clone across to the living room and continue to grow.

My money is on them representing what the symbols mean. First one was an OS, second is a box, third one is most likely some sort of controller. They patented a modular controller back in '11. (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110105231) I imagine that is finally coming to fruition.

I would buy a steam-designed controller. Not a huge fan of most controllers.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 25, 2013, 02:50:54 pm
Steam controller? Yeah, I'd bite. Right now the options are mostly console controllers, which come with a lot of complaints about dead zone and sensitivity, or one of the Logitech controllers- my F710 feels great, but has the worst blue tooth reception I've ever seen in any device.

Also this:
Quote
You are now one out of 34,719 eligible beta candidates.
Good Luck!
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Levi on September 25, 2013, 02:55:28 pm
My money is on them representing what the symbols mean. First one was an OS, second is a box, third one is most likely some sort of controller. They patented a modular controller back in '11. (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110105231) I imagine that is finally coming to fruition.

Ooh, is that a sexy sexy trackball I see?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This image has given me hope.  :D
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Tres_Huevos on September 25, 2013, 03:01:33 pm
They're sexy trackball modules, which can be swapped in as appropriate. Which seems far too sensible a design to actually happen. Though I see they're still making you choose between using your thumbs to push buttons, or use a stick/trackball.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 25, 2013, 05:26:18 pm
I'd expect something more ergonomic than that in a final design, it looks like tapping the buttons would make your thumbs cramp up (ever use the D-pad on a 360 controller a lot?)

Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 25, 2013, 05:27:41 pm
I'd expect something more ergonomic than that in a final design, it looks like tapping the buttons would make your thumbs cramp up (ever use the D-pad on a 360 controller a lot?)
Well it's the modular controller that's patented, not the shape of the controller.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: scrdest on September 25, 2013, 07:00:42 pm
I'd expect something more ergonomic than that in a final design, it looks like tapping the buttons would make your thumbs cramp up (ever use the D-pad on a 360 controller a lot?)

You know, that gets me thinking, why didn't anybody think of putting buttons at the back of the controller, so you could use thumbs for the sticks, index fingers for triggers and middle and/or ring for buttons?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 25, 2013, 07:08:08 pm
You know, that gets me thinking, why didn't anybody think of putting buttons at the back of the controller, so you could use thumbs for the sticks, index fingers for triggers and middle and/or ring for buttons?

A quick experiment shows that it'd be awkward as all heck. You wouldn't be able to get a good grip on the controller since the index/middle fingers are the main grasping fingers on the hand. Also you don't have much dexterity with your middle/ring fingers, so it'd be harder to hit the buttons and probably put more strain on your hands. Maybe it'd work if the controller was designed better than the one I have for buttons on the back, but I don't really see it ever being comfortable or useful.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on September 25, 2013, 07:20:22 pm
Going off of what I think are hints with the icons, the first is revealed to be SteamOS and is a circle. The second is likely this "SteamBox", a branded computer hardware bundle that comes with the operating system and an attempt at making a standardized gaming computer, similar to consoles, that developers will use.

The third circle, two circles with a plus sign in-between, is an attempt to throw people off of the first circle and the second circle in a box. Instead of the circle relating to the SteamOS, I believe that it's going to be a specialized gamepad controller (the circles being analog sticks, the plus sign representing either the dpad or the four buttons). A lot of people just use XBox controllers, but seeing that Steam is making their own OS and their own potential console for computer gaming (my guess), all they're missing for the living room is the other advantage of console gaming: some games just work better with controllers.

Looks like I caaalllleeedddd itttttttt.

Though the reasoning might be off. We'll have to see for better explanations if my reasoning was right or wrong.

And also that there is the third announcement that needs to be made.

But:
Quote from: Steam Page
Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room?
If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.
says that I'm likely right.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 25, 2013, 07:23:10 pm
I can't wait to see all this stuff come to fruitation.
Because in my experience, Valve gets stuff done right.
And all this is stuff that has been needing getting done rightness for a while.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Lectorog on September 25, 2013, 07:46:20 pm
I'd expect something more ergonomic than that in a final design, it looks like tapping the buttons would make your thumbs cramp up (ever use the D-pad on a 360 controller a lot?)
You know, that gets me thinking, why didn't anybody think of putting buttons at the back of the controller, so you could use thumbs for the sticks, index fingers for triggers and middle and/or ring for buttons?
The N64 controller did it. One button probably doesn't count though.

It's obvious that none of you claw your controllers regularly.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Leonon on September 25, 2013, 10:21:31 pm
I for one can't wait to see what the steam machine can do. I bet it can run games harder, better, faster, and stronger that other consoles. The design will probably be sleek and aerodynamic. I'm quite excited about this technologic development and can't wait to see it face to face.

I just hope Valve doesn't make any daft decisions about it, though that would show that they are human after all.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chiefwaffles on September 25, 2013, 10:30:51 pm
Keep in mind there will probably not be any "THE Official Steam Machine." They did mention that that they're making a variety of them with multiple partners. I'd bet that most of them will be mostly based on streaming with some low end specifications to make that happen. This is considering how it's likely that most of steam's users already have their own computers.
There's still a likelihood of some high/mid-end machines being developed though.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 26, 2013, 01:56:44 am
Valve are knoewn to QA test almost to a fault, so there will most likely be something for everyone and will most likely work well.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: March on September 27, 2013, 06:02:15 am
Its going to be a controller, hl3 or other 3 games is going to be announced if at all around the actual release date to public purchases; not during the prototype console stage.
If you read the bottom of the second announcement it says they will say more about control interface soon, meaning most likely the 3rd is going to be a controller.

Although from what I've seen of either leaks or actual information is that hl3 is at the least in development but not nearly done enough for it to be announced; one of the main characters accidentally leaked over twitter he had not done any voice work yet some month ago before being quieted by valve and a picture of a list on a valve computer saying something about hl3 very vaguely.

There will probably be no more then 5 versions of the steam machine. I expect the cheapest to be around $300 or so minimum, with either more powerful and expensive versions as well as ones to do specialized stuff.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 27, 2013, 12:10:17 pm
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/

Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme.

/me drools
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on September 27, 2013, 12:11:15 pm
Yep, its a controller. Track pads in place of sticks, and they say it should effectively mimic a mouse and keyboard for non-controller games.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: FritzPL on September 27, 2013, 12:27:21 pm
They're pretty much making all of this open source. The controller will be fully customizable and you will be able to get "tools available that will enable users to participate in all aspects of the experience, from industrial design to electrical engineering". I wonder how much those tools will cost.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on September 27, 2013, 12:32:41 pm
So the latest reveal was a controller as myself and most people had already predicted. The controller itself is well ... odd. They've replaced the standard two analog control stick design with two circular trackpads. It has a touch screen and triggers in the top and in the back of the controller. Due to the size of the track pads the "generic main four buttons (ABXY)" are moved oddly around the touchscreen. This is what I predict will be the major problem of the controller.

First off I have to say I really like the trackpad design. I've played a couple of strategy (EU4,CK2, CIV) and FPS (Serious Sam, Minecraft) games on my laptop trackpad a few times when I left my mouse at home and found it infinitely better than a controller. I personally can't play FPS on a controller at all but with a trackpad I'm surprisely decent.
However, I have a mouse and keyboard for FPS/strat and I don't ever see a time when I would be without either a mouse or trackpad so I don't see why I would need a controller designed around playing these genres better. What I use a controller for is platforms, fighters and aRPGs where button mashing and precision analog control is the primary need. My concerns with the way the generic main four buttons are pushed into what seems like a fairly awkward spot would harm the genres which controllers perform the best on. 

I can understand that they were trying to develop a controller that would be useful for lots of genres while being slumped in front of the couch but I still think a wireless keyboard and a mouse on a lapdesk is the better alternative. You have the benefit of mouse aiming but also being able to use other computer functions like web browsing with ease. I suppose the touchpad (assumed it emulates a keyboard) will make typing easier so it might not be a massive trade off after all.

The controller is software moddable which is always nice but it doesn't seem to have the modular design Valve originally patented that would allow components (like a single trackpad) to be traded out for another. Perhaps this is coming in the future but it seems odd that they didn't outright say that it will be modular with optional components.

Now what will really make or break the controller is how much it costs. Two trackpads and a touchscreen sounds extremely expensive to me. I don't think people will consider putting serious cash into a controller no matter the tech it has when you can just get a Xbox 360 controller off ebay for $15.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 27, 2013, 01:03:30 pm
Well... those buttons are... oddly placed, to say the least.

I'd have to get my hands on one to properly judge how it will behave though.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: March on September 27, 2013, 01:18:49 pm
Looks nice, and it is always nice to have a new contender in the controller wars; even if we all secretly wish all the consoles would just make one universal controller.

Also agree that the middle buttons are going to be the crutch of that thing having to stop control of motion or camera to use one, or heaven forbid remove your hand to reach the buttons, and the very minor back screw holes that the Xbox one controllers wont have anymore over 360 controllers.
The picture of it in the hands on that page is not comforting.
Also isn't it half expected to have scroll wheels on a pc game based controller by now.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: CognitiveDissonance on September 27, 2013, 01:19:44 pm
After some thinking, I believe the below sums up my thoughts quite well

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/

Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme.

/me drools
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Krevsin on September 27, 2013, 01:52:08 pm
Okay, so according to the presentation, the buttons will be less an issue than expected because they're mostly assigned to secondary functions, such as the tab key and so on.

Still want to get my hands on one to try it out myself.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on September 27, 2013, 01:59:26 pm
Valve understands the gaming community well. In fact they've been planning this a whole while.

It's started with Alien Swarm, than TF2 hats, than the workshop, and now also hardware.

They found a way to let the consumers make their own product, and get paid for it.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Wiles on September 27, 2013, 04:25:33 pm
It's interesting to see a controller step away from the dual analog design. I think I'd be hesitant to pick it up before trying it out myself though. I've never ever liked trackpads.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on September 27, 2013, 04:28:32 pm
It's interesting to see a controller step away from the dual analog design. I think I'd be hesitant to pick it up before trying it out myself though. I've never ever liked trackpads.
I just realised that the controller reminded me of something. I've got what it is.
Ashens tech prediction (http://youtu.be/S99z4WsF9l4?t=2m17s).
It has come true.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Facekillz058 on September 27, 2013, 04:28:59 pm
The only thing I don't like about the new controller is the positioning of the ABXY buttons.
But hey, maybe there is something to it that you just can't realize until trying it out.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Levi on September 27, 2013, 04:34:56 pm
Steam Box doesn't interest me much, but I'm totally going to buy one of those controllers to try it out.  I'd love to be able to play FPS's while reclining on my couch, but I can't stand aiming with joysticks.  This might be the best of both worlds for me.  :D

And I'm a bit of a input fanboy.  I even have one of these  (http://www.gadgetreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/novint-falcon-fps-attachement.jpg)sitting in my closet.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Wiles on September 27, 2013, 04:51:35 pm
The thing I'd miss most is the D-Pad. Most of the games I play on my television using steam's "big picture" mode are indie platformers like Spelunky. Though I'm guessing we'll be able to use other USB controllers on a steam box anyway.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Descan on September 27, 2013, 10:29:07 pm
Uhm, am I the only one that things the placement of those four buttons seems really good? Like, it doesn't seem that hard to move your thumb up left or down left, or up right or down right.

Personally it's marginally better than the "cluster of 4 buttons in the top right of an asymmetrical controller" that Microsoft and Sony can't get off.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Hugehead on September 27, 2013, 11:37:06 pm
Overview of the controller from Tommy Refenes, apparantly it's pretty good.
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Shadowlord on September 28, 2013, 12:52:00 am
It's interesting to see a controller step away from the dual analog design. I think I'd be hesitant to pick it up before trying it out myself though. I've never ever liked trackpads.

This. Of course with what they say about the super magical force feedback, maybe they've solved the problem of making a sensible trackpad.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: miauw62 on September 28, 2013, 02:59:34 am
Uhm, am I the only one that things the placement of those four buttons seems really good? Like, it doesn't seem that hard to move your thumb up left or down left, or up right or down right.

Personally it's marginally better than the "cluster of 4 buttons in the top right of an asymmetrical controller" that Microsoft and Sony can't get off.
Hey, Dualshocks are symmetrical. (Also I really like Dualshocks and can't get the hang of the ABXY buttons 360 controllers have )
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Rilder on September 28, 2013, 09:11:13 am
The steam controller might be okay. (And this is from someone who as a rule hates controllers)

I guess it would depend on how expensive it is though.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 05, 2013, 03:51:52 pm
Some more information about steambox specs. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements)
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on October 11, 2013, 01:34:34 pm
If anyone is curious there is now a gameplay demonstration of the steam controller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI). It demonstrated Portal 2, Civ 5 and Papers Please. All of which are very mouse heavy and the controller seemed to perform decently well. It still likely to be crippled in most PC games due to the lack of hotkeys which is particularly noticeable in the Civ 5 gameplay where actions are incredibly slow.

Unfortunately they didn't show off a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy or a console aRPG like Dark Souls which is where the performance of the controller I'm the most interested in. I'm still standing by my assessment that the steam controller will perform worse in those genres, which to my knowledge, are the only genres where controllers are objectively better than keyboard and mouse. 

I know that the steam controller is not necessarily trying to be better than other controllers but instead offering an alternative to keyboard and mouse for people who want to PC game on the couch. However I still think there might be some merit in the trackpad design that could offer a lot more precision over a thumbstick. The design of the controller, particularly delegating the XYAB buttons to a much less prominent location, leaves a lot to be desired and seems to lack some utility as a general controller.   
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on October 11, 2013, 05:31:49 pm
Some more information about steambox specs. (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements)
Ok, so the Steamboxes they're unveiling now are literally just computers with the SteamOS preinstalled. Not exciting, but expected. I'm still curious as to what the other Steamboxes will be, since apparently there are indeed others. The only thing I can think of is a dedicated streaming device in the vein of Apple TV.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on October 11, 2013, 05:36:43 pm
Ok, so the Steamboxes they're unveiling now are literally just computers with the SteamOS preinstalled.

That's... that's what the Steamboxes are. They are pre-built PCs. With PC stuff in them. Also, SteamOS.
Why did you think they were anything but that?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: umiman on October 11, 2013, 05:37:13 pm
Maybe he thought they were minature steam power plants.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Descan on October 11, 2013, 05:40:05 pm
Maybe he thought they were building entirely new hardware that every game in your library needs to be converted to run on. :v
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on October 11, 2013, 05:43:25 pm
They've been talking about different levels of steam boxes, and they're still saying they have more to reveal. They certainly make it sound like they have more up their sleeve than just a second gaming PC you can put in your living room to compliment your other gaming PC you probably already own.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Wiles on October 11, 2013, 08:29:21 pm
If anyone is curious there is now a gameplay demonstration of the steam controller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI). It demonstrated Portal 2, Civ 5 and Papers Please. All of which are very mouse heavy and the controller seemed to perform decently well. It still likely to be crippled in most PC games due to the lack of hotkeys which is particularly noticeable in the Civ 5 gameplay where actions are incredibly slow.

It didn't look too bad in the fps games but at the same time It really didn't look very smooth, if you watch while he's aiming at the targets it moves stops and moves again. However it looked downright janky playing Civ 5.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 05, 2013, 07:27:34 am
Steambox revealed. (ish) (http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2022180559_briercolumn04xml.html)

Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Singularity125 on November 05, 2013, 11:12:20 am
Apologies if this has been brought up before, but I've been curious about something... How is their "SteamOS" which is based on Linux going to be compatible with 90% of their library? Even if they do something fancy like tucking WINE into their OS, there are lots of compatibility issues... I don't see it gaining too much traction unless they can address that somehow.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 05, 2013, 11:22:38 am
Technically it's capable with 90% of their library because it has a build in streaming option. Any game that doesn't run on SteamOS can be played on a nearby windows device and streamed to the steambox.

Don't know if they're going to develop support too. Doubt it, as Valve has a tendency for playing the long game.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Chaoswizkid on November 05, 2013, 11:37:54 am
Technically it's capable with 90% of their library because it has a build in streaming option. Any game that doesn't run on SteamOS can be played on a nearby windows device and streamed to the steambox.

Don't know if they're going to develop support too. Doubt it, as Valve has a tendency for playing the long game.

EW. My enthusiasm for this dropped drastically.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Wiles on November 05, 2013, 12:37:49 pm
From the linked article:

Quote
Users who poke around the SteamOS can still get to Linux, though. They can also load Windows and productivity software onto a Steam Machine and use it for work as well as play.

So if there were any windows games you really wanted to play you could probably set up your Steambox to dual-boot into windows.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Mephisto on November 05, 2013, 12:57:30 pm
From the linked article:

Quote
Users who poke around the SteamOS can still get to Linux, though. They can also load Windows and productivity software onto a Steam Machine and use it for work as well as play.

So if there were any windows games you really wanted to play you could probably set up your Steambox to dual-boot into windows.


Why bother?

Prediction: There will be few/no SteamOS-only games. Unless Valve is selling machines at a loss, you'll likely be able to go out and get more bang for your buck buying from a different OEM or building yourself.

Positives: You've got a computer, not a gaming system. You saved money. If you desire (not sure why you would, we've already established that there probably won't be SteamOS-only games), you can install SteamOS on it.

Negatives: Your new computer... doesn't have the Steambox case badge?
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Wiles on November 06, 2013, 12:03:41 am
Prediction: There will be few/no SteamOS-only games. Unless Valve is selling machines at a loss, you'll likely be able to go out and get more bang for your buck buying from a different OEM or building yourself.

Positives: You've got a computer, not a gaming system. You saved money. If you desire (not sure why you would, we've already established that there probably won't be SteamOS-only games), you can install SteamOS on it.

Negatives: Your new computer... doesn't have the Steambox case badge?

They've already said that they won't be pushing for SteamOS exclusive games.

I like the idea of the steam box in that I think it would be great to have a dedicated entertainment computer in the livingroom. But I'd never get one for the reasons you've mentioned. It'd be much more practical to make my own machine that suits my personal needs and budget.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on December 11, 2013, 01:27:59 pm
So a quick update if anyone is interested but aren't completely in the loop.

Valve has announced that they plan to ship the 300 beta units today to the chosen few who will be announced in around 4 hours. Valve has also stated that it's now only open to residents of the US only, citing "regulatory hurdles". This is understandable and even somewhat predictable but still disappointing to fans outside of the US, prompting quite the outcry in the comment section.

The beta units will ship with the prototype steambox, some free games, the controller and the SteamOS. The SteamOS will be made public "when the prototype hardware ships" although it isn't recommended for users who aren't "intrepid Linux hacker(s)" for now.
Valve states more information about non-prototype steamboxes will be announced at CES on the 6th of January.

Source: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse#announcements/detail/1930088300965516570
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Levi on December 11, 2013, 01:49:16 pm
Valve has also stated that it's now only open to residents of the US only, citing "regulatory hurdles".

Boo, I was hoping to get a hold of those sexy looking controllers. 
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Fayrik on December 11, 2013, 02:29:43 pm
Valve has also stated that it's now only open to residents of the US only, citing "regulatory hurdles". This is understandable and even somewhat predictable but still disappointing to fans outside of the US, prompting quite the outcry in the comment section.
Well yes and no. Yes, I can understand that there are regulations that could inhibit the ease of which an international scheme is executed.
But I'm afraid I cannot see any reason why these limitations would only be visible this late in production.
The immediate conclusion my mind jumps to is that they're so utterly incompetent they didn't bother checking on the legal side of things until now, which frankly, makes Steam (particularly the OS) much less desirable to develop on.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on January 16, 2014, 07:17:52 am
Turns out the Steam Controller design is being overhauled. The touchscreen has been removed and now it's going to have traditional a/b/x/y/ controls plus a pseudo d-pad. It's rather like an inverted playstation controller currently.
The original purpose of the touchscreen was to allow quick changes to the four buttons surrounding the touchscreen so it could simulate things like 1-9 weapon selection or other actions that generally involved a lot of key presses. Beta testers complained that they spent too much time looking down at the controller to figure out what to press. It's worth it to note that the proposed overlay that was meant to go over games to address this issue was never programed by Valve so the testers never knew/used this feature.

Personally I find this news both good and bad. While I said for a while that I believe the Steam Controller would likely do poorly for some genres like the spectacle fighter, I'm not quite sure that completely throwing out the touchscreen and replacing it with standard industry controls is a perfect solution. It's also likely that this will greatly lower the cost of the controller but I do have wonder if people are being too reactionary with controller design. We've had a/b/x/y + d-pad since the SNES days and dual control sticks since the playstation 1. To me it doesn't feel like controllers have advanced all that much.

(http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SteamController.jpg)
I really have to wonder if this is going to impact the Steam Controllers original (rather lofty) goal of being able to simulate almost any PC game with the controller and if track pads are good enough to basically sell a controller on their own, it's already easy enough to buy a cheap wired xbox controller and plug it into a PC.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Mephisto on January 16, 2014, 07:57:59 am
... if track pads are good enough to basically sell a controller on their own ...

I would buy one just to try it out, but I have a feeling it would be languishing in my e-junk drawer before long.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on January 16, 2014, 12:01:23 pm
... if track pads are good enough to basically sell a controller on their own ...

I have a feeling it would be languishing in my e-junk drawer before long.

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Levi on January 16, 2014, 12:21:24 pm
I still want it.  :)  Not sure I like the new layout though, and it really should have something in the middle, even if its just a start/select button or a mousewheel or something.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Graknorke on January 16, 2014, 12:53:57 pm
I preferred the old one, both in terms of looks and the potential of function.
This overhaul is just about indistinguishable from any other controller.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: aristabulus on January 16, 2014, 01:57:02 pm
I preferred the old one, both in terms of looks and the potential of function.
This overhaul is just about indistinguishable from any other controller.

I applaud them for trying crazy new things... but if those new things truly aren't working, staying the course doesn't make any sense.

I've not used a controller for a long time, so I guess I'm a little more open minded.  I've been considering getting a USB controller, as some games are set up to prefer them.  I just hope they offer a wired final version; I'd rather draw 5 volts from my desktop than have to fuss with batteries and/or recharging.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on January 16, 2014, 02:33:48 pm
The reason for the whole haptic feedback and touch screen thing was so that you could play mouse+keyboard games while sitting on a couch in your living room. If you've ever tried to do this, you've probably realized that without a desk, your hands are on the mouse and keyboard at funny angles and your wrists don't take long to cramp up, and it's a lot harder to share couch space with a bulky keyboard in your lap and the necessity of some level space for the mouse.

Now, I don't really know how well it will work (early reviews seem to say it does a pretty good job on some games but I'm sure there's some games that will simply require too many keybinds) but I really like the idea of what it's trying to accomplish. As far as I'm aware, the previous touch pad in the center would have been able to support about eight button functions (tap and double tap in each of four segments) as some gesture and swipe commands. Now it's down to just eight button functions, although probably faster to use. That might have been the line that cuts off a few games with a library of commands.

Regardless of all the good and bad things said about it, I really don't think it's possible to pass judgement until a final version becomes available. Nonetheless, it at least looks like it has a chance of providing support for regular controller games, while adding some M+KB games to the list of games you can play sitting on the couch with your friends.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: scrdest on January 16, 2014, 02:43:06 pm
You know what they should do? They should make a compact gaming keyboard. Like:

QWER
ASDF
ZXCV
[space bar]

give or take another row, with smaller 0-9 keys, pretty much a third of the regular keyboard's width, just for your left hand. Maybe attach a mousepad to the side, and you've got a real compact assembly for M&KB gaming peripherals.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Sensei on January 16, 2014, 02:59:03 pm
There is this thing, called a game keypad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still, wouldn't be extremely comfortable to use at a couch as it's designed to rest on a flat surface about elbow height, which your lap isn't. Still requires a mouse, too.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: scrdest on January 16, 2014, 03:02:11 pm
There is this thing, called a game keypad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still, wouldn't be extremely comfortable to use at a couch as it's designed to rest on a flat surface about elbow height, which your lap isn't. Still requires a mouse, too.

Yeah, I've seen those. That's why I said 'develop'. I was thinking of something like a portable mini-table with a half-keyboard an a mousepad attached.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on January 16, 2014, 11:45:39 pm
Steam is also going to start accepting 12 more currencies. It looks like they're going to start accepting stuff like the AUD, NZD, MXN, CAD, THB, NOK and UAH.

I really have to wonder if this is going to be a positive thing that might end the "Australian tax"/"$1 = €1" controversy or if it's just going to be more expense added for countries outside the US.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on January 17, 2014, 02:11:27 am
CAD

If they keep up with exchange rates, I will be a very happy man.

EDIT: In fact, if they just set it at $1 CAD - $1 USD (which is how it is in game stores like EB Games/Gamestop, where games cost 59.99 CAD in Canada and 59.99 USD in the States) I will be happier, seeing as the CAD is more often lower than the USD than it is higher anyways. But Valve giving a bonus to non-Americans? I doubt it.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: timferius on January 17, 2014, 08:24:21 am
CAD

If they keep up with exchange rates, I will be a very happy man.

EDIT: In fact, if they just set it at $1 CAD - $1 USD (which is how it is in game stores like EB Games/Gamestop, where games cost 59.99 CAD in Canada and 59.99 USD in the States) I will be happier, seeing as the CAD is more often lower than the USD than it is higher anyways. But Valve giving a bonus to non-Americans? I doubt it.

To be honest, we're so close to parity most of the time I can't really see this making a huge difference. And hey, just plan your spending around the stock market.
Title: Re: The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014
Post by: Glloyd on January 17, 2014, 01:02:52 pm
CAD

If they keep up with exchange rates, I will be a very happy man.

EDIT: In fact, if they just set it at $1 CAD - $1 USD (which is how it is in game stores like EB Games/Gamestop, where games cost 59.99 CAD in Canada and 59.99 USD in the States) I will be happier, seeing as the CAD is more often lower than the USD than it is higher anyways. But Valve giving a bonus to non-Americans? I doubt it.

To be honest, we're so close to parity most of the time I can't really see this making a huge difference. And hey, just plan your spending around the stock market.

Exactly, but it's better than spending a couple dollars more on everything like we do now.