Post by: notquitethere on December 03, 2013, 04:51:47 am
Beginner's Mafia: Sprint Redux!
The Age of Lead
The Age of Lead
In the Age of Lead, in the mabbling plains, night falls and in the squelching mud, seven cloaked figures arrive, exhausted, at the vast skeleton of an impossibull. Five of them believe themselves united in purpose. But two of them conspire against the others.
Tired of the plodding pace of normal games? Just not interested in spending more than a month reading and arguing? Never manage to finish a game? Say hello to the first new run of the Sprint edition of Beginner's Mafia! Specifically designed to be great for newcomers and dabblers in Mafia, the game eschews many of the traditional rules of BMs to create a setup that is more fast-paced, fun and interesting. This game will never last more than a week! That means no waiting around, boredom or long-term commitment!
This setup puts its greatest emphasis on getting you to enjoy playing Mafia and to spark your interest in it. It still has an instructional aspect, however, and as such an IC will be present in the game to play the game with you. Their primary purpose is to teach you to play Mafia, and will do everything to further that goal even after death - but keep in mind that the playing IC will still play for keeps.
Mafia Gameplay
The game of mafia has a simple concept. A large group of players known as the town plays against a smaller group of players known as the mafia. In this setup, there are seven players, with five town and two mafia.
Before the game begins, each players is given a role and an alignment by the moderator. There are two alignments in this setup: Town and Mafia. The town outnumber the mafia, but each individual member of the town does not know the alignment of any of the other members. The mafia know the alignment of everyone on their team and they can discuss the game privately in a special mafia chat. The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.
Once everyone has a role, the game begins in the Day phase. During the Day phase, players may discuss the game and each player has a vote that they cast publicly to lynch a player. At the end of the day after some predetermined amount of time, the player with the most votes is lynched. Lynching does two things: it reveals a player's role and alignment, and it removes a player from the game. Once lynched, a player is no longer allowed to post in the thread.
Sprint Gameplay
Sprint specifically plays much like normal mafia, but with two notable exceptions. The game is effectively Nightless: Each Day, players may collectively decide to lynch a player, but instead of advancing to a silent Night the game begins with the next Day immediately. Thus, the playerbase must talk constantly, and there is no set time to send in actions - anyone with a power role and thus a night action must send in the action during the Day. It will then occur after the lynch, before the next Day starts (like a normal game). Because of this, the game will start with a single 24 hour Night to let everyone read their PMs and the Mafia to coordinate.
Each game is run with six beginner players and one IC, and the game will always consist of the following roles:
- 2 Mafia Goons - May decide each day to covertly kill someone after the lynch, before the next Day. Must survive.
- 3 Townies - No powers, must lynch Mafia.
- 1 Doctor - Can choose someone each day to protect from the Mafia kill. Must lynch Mafia.
- 1 Macho Cop - Can choose someone each day to discover the alignment of. Cannot be protected by the Doctor. Must lynch Mafia.
Rules
- Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored.
- NQT
- Vote notquitethere
- You pesky liar, NQT! Burn in hell
- Vote notquite
- Vote NQ
- If you want to simply remove your vote, you may put unvote in red text. You must explicitly state this. It is possible to put the name of the player you were voting afterwards, but it is not recommended as it can lead to confusion.
- Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.
- Winning - Mafia win when all town players are dead. Town win when all mafia players are dead. As such, the game will auto-end if the mafia population ever equals or exceeds the town population.
- PMs - Never PM another player. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions.
- Never quote anything the mod says to you.
- Edits - Never edit your posts for any reason. You will be modkilled if you do.
- Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you should request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play. Since the game only lasts a week, though, please try to stick to it. It's only a week.
- Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
- I will modkill you if you don't post for an entire Day (48 hours). No exceptions.
- Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
- Day Length - Days will last 48 hours, including weekends.
- Extensions/Shortens - There is only one available Extension for the entire game; once you use it, it's gone. It is for 24 hours and may be used at any time if 33% of players (min 2) agree. Days can be shortened to end immediately with 51% of votes (min 3).
- Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension/shorten
- Extensions/shortens can be opposed by declaring opposition (Oppose Shorten/Extend, I oppose this notion!, My Oppose goes to this), and they count against the total number of votes for an extension/shorten. Extensions count as opposition to shortens and vice versa.
- External Participation - While the game is ongoing, if you are not a player, an IC, or a mod, refrain from posting in the thread.
- Play to win! There is no hopeless situation, so don't ever give up. And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.
- Miscellaneous - Use of cryptographic hashing is not permitted. If you want to have hidden/obfuscated messages in your posts for later use, come up with them using your own wetware.
Player Roster
Confirmed
- Tiruin, IC
- Persus13
- makeinu
- Superblackcat
- Luke_Prowler
- Pufferfish
RangerCadoElephant Parade
- Sinlessmoon
- Imp
- [This Could Be You!]
(Thanks goes to LNCP for writing the set up!)
Post by: notquitethere on December 03, 2013, 09:09:11 am
It is now Night 0. I sent out your role PMs. At 3PM GMT 4th December we will start Day 1. I'll be leaving the thread open for questions and for replacements to join in, but please refrain from voting, game-playing etc., until the game actually starts.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 03, 2013, 03:26:49 pm
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 04:05:47 pm
Post to get updoots.
Me toot
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 03, 2013, 04:21:11 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on December 03, 2013, 06:07:56 pm
Post by: Tiruin on December 03, 2013, 06:51:33 pm
*poses regally with a sabre of unobtainum*
"TIS THE NIGHT, AND WE SHALL PROSPER, HEATHEN SCUM!"
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 03, 2013, 07:40:12 pm
Post by: Tiruin on December 03, 2013, 08:13:35 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 03, 2013, 08:15:32 pm
Joining, I guess. I've never played Forum Mafia before, but it should be fun.I could've sworn that list wasn't there. Why was I PMed about it if there were no open slots, anyway?
Post by: Persus13 on December 03, 2013, 08:28:49 pm
Post by: RangerCado on December 03, 2013, 08:45:58 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 03, 2013, 09:15:07 pm
Elephant can have the spot if he wants it still.I would love the spot. Thank you.
Post by: RangerCado on December 03, 2013, 09:18:38 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on December 04, 2013, 12:00:25 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on December 04, 2013, 01:58:03 am
Post by: notquitethere on December 04, 2013, 04:02:24 am
Game starts in 6 hours!
Post by: notquitethere on December 04, 2013, 10:00:06 am
In the mabbling plains in the middle of a blood rain, seven theocrats huddle inside the weather-worn skull of an impossibull. It had taken seventeen days to find it, tramping through the mud, sleeping in tight tents and eating too many refried beans. They had squabbled the whole way over what to do about it. Some said to raise it, others said to record it. There were even heretical suggestions that they should ignore it. But by the time they arrived, most believed themselves united in purposes. Not so.
Early that morning the blood rain started. Blood rain is a second tier portent so they all knew that two of their number had secretly performed a Rite of Indifference. An impossibull is a vexsome prospect, but all the strictures forbid Indifference! The theocrats all outwardly agree that they should push someone out into the rain, that they'll vote to decide who, just like if they were back inside the Council Chambers.
Vote Count
------------------------
Elephant Parade -
Luke_Prowler -
makeinu -
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -
Superblackcat -
Tiruin -
Not Voting - Elephant Parade, Luke_Prowler, makeinu, Persus_13, Pufferfish, Superblackcat, Tiruin
Day 1 has begun. Day ends Friday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 48 hours.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 11:09:15 am
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 11:10:49 am
Nnnnooooooooo? (Not a question)
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 11:12:57 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 11:15:13 am
Well, that was sudden!
Nnnnooooooooo? (Not a question)
Unvote.
Perseus13, what is the first question you will ask and why?
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 04, 2013, 12:13:18 pm
Speaking of which, you seem quite quick to accuse, aye Elephant Parade :P
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 12:19:41 pm
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 04, 2013, 12:22:33 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 04, 2013, 04:52:17 pm
Perseus13, what is the first question you will ask and why?My first question would be Why are you asking me this? When you ask a question, there should be a goal behind it. Even if the goal is just to get a conversation going or to help you learn Mafia. You have nothing but the words of others to find scum D1. So what is the goal of this question?
Also, if you could spell my name correctly that would be nice (I go by Perses or Persus)
SBC: Glad to play with you again. What are your thoughts on other players?
Luke: You completely new to Mafia? How much experience do you have?
@makeinu: It's a mafia tactic, where someone throws whats basically a baseless accusation to see how other people reaction. Usually followed by an unvote so to at least be fair.By Mafia do you mean the game or the faction?
Speaking of which, you seem quite quick to accuse, aye Elephant Parade :P
Makeinu:
Query: is there a reason for the immediate vote?In this forum people tend to vote random people at the beginning. It's usually referred to as RVS (Random Vote Suspicion). How was your experience on the Mafia forum previous to this one like?
Tiruin: How do you find out if an IC is scum? THat seemed hard for me in the last BM because the ICs were mostly posting advice. Any tips?
Post by: Persus13 on December 04, 2013, 04:55:45 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 05:08:54 pm
Makeinu:Query: is there a reason for the immediate vote?In this forum people tend to vote random people at the beginning. It's usually referred to as RVS (Random Vote Suspicion). How was your experience on the Mafia forum previous to this one like?
An answer is a bit long, and off-topic for this game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on December 04, 2013, 05:16:02 pm
I am hijacking Jim's post because he does this IC thing direct to the point, and my words cannot surpass what he'd be saying in essence. As far as I know.
For those of you who don't know what to do ... find scum, which is your primary goal.The quote is linked to that post in full.
And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.
If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.
...So be bold, and just do the best you can. You're going to play this by aggressively questioning everything you find odd or scummy. This is to get you in the habit of asking questions a lot, since that's how the game of mafia is played and won.
Also I use italics for general neutral advice. Or humor.
Elephant_Parade
makeinu, did you immediately suspect anybody as the mafia?
...While the idea seems reasonable, it looks like you're throwing votes out randomly. While this does reflect the concept of the RVS, it lacks the essence of why the RVS is needed.Well, that was sudden!
Nnnnooooooooo? (Not a question)
Unvote.
Perseus13, what is the first question you will ask and why?
You question specific people when said queries may be done via a list, then forwarded to those people. A vote isn't really needed (unless you have more than one) to grab attention. Just bold a person's name and shoot it out.
So I'll ask, why did you unvote and shift on that note? What did you expect his (makeinu's) answer to be?
Persus
Tiruin: How do you find out if an IC is scum? THat seemed hard for me in the last BM because the ICs were mostly posting advice. Any tips?...You scumhunt them. An IC is no different from you people--they just somehow get a probable fancy way of displaying advice so people will listen, instead of player advice, which is open to scrutiny.
SO Yeah. What I'm saying is that I'm no less invincible or invulnerable to guilt and suspicion than you guys. Check what Imp did last BM. She is awesome. She had characteristics which resembles scumhunting.
Meaning: Scumhunt. You find out if a -person- is scum, when you scumhunt them. Wherein scumhunt is a term.
Why do you ask me such a question, then add a vote? Attention's sake or...?
SBC: Hello luckyblackcat.
I've to ask you a simple question.
How will you value others -in the hypothetical scenario that you're town- in being scum? Will or will not the presence of a role ability shift that viewpoint, and why?
Pufferfish: Take yourself as scum. Are there any significant differences you'd see in your play compared to how your ideal town play would be?
Luke_Prowler Hello there. I would like to ask you something.
Given the lesser time than an ordinary BM, will you adjust your play accordingly? How will you judge the general masses playing with you here?
makeinu: Any questions for the rest? In the scenario where you are town, how would you value voting someone or being voted at this point in time?
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 05:25:25 pm
As to voting, I understand the concept of pressure votes, but dislike random votes on principle. I've yet to be convinced of the utility; that may change.
Post by: Persus13 on December 04, 2013, 05:36:44 pm
answerOkay, thanks. That answer helps understand better where you're coming from. Have you ever played a 7-10 player game?
PersusThree reasons. One: I find you hard to read and have had a bad record when it comes to deciding what faction you're on. (BM I thought you were scum, you weren't. Supernatural I thought you were town. you weren't.Tiruin: How do you find out if an IC is scum? THat seemed hard for me in the last BM because the ICs were mostly posting advice. Any tips?...You scumhunt them. An IC is no different from you people--they just somehow get a probable fancy way of displaying advice so people will listen, instead of player advice, which is open to scrutiny.
SO Yeah. What I'm saying is that I'm no less invincible or invulnerable to guilt and suspicion than you guys. Check what Imp did last BM. She is awesome. She had characteristics which resembles scumhunting.
Meaning: Scumhunt. You find out if a -person- is scum, when you scumhunt them. Wherein scumhunt is a term.
Why do you ask me such a question, then add a vote? Attention's sake or...?
Two: ICs seem hard to read for me because my past experience with ICs was they either lurked or gave advice and didn't do a lot of playing.
Three: Voting you was because I didn't know how you'd react to it.
Four: D1 is usually hard for me. I rarely know what I want to ask, and so ask whatever comes to mind and helps me learn or allows me to find out more about a player's experience.
Unvote for now. I may be back later.
As to voting, I understand the concept of pressure votes, but dislike random votes on principle. I've yet to be convinced of the utility; that may change.Some players on the form share that mindset. When do you think you'll begin to start asking questions?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 04, 2013, 05:59:20 pm
@Persus, Elephant Parade and Luke seems like fun :D
@ Tir.... Restate please? What do you mean by value?
@All, Who is your favorite person in this and why? (Not just in mafia, on forums as well)
Post by: notquitethere on December 04, 2013, 06:06:16 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
Elephant Parade (1) - Luke Prowler
Luke_Prowler -
makeinu -
Persus13 (1) - Elephant Parade
Pufferfish (1) - Tiruin
Superblackcat -
Tiruin -
Not Voting - makeinu, Persus_13, Pufferfish, Superblackcat
Day ends Friday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 40 hours.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 04, 2013, 06:08:58 pm
Pufferfish: Take yourself as scum. Are there any significant differences you'd see in your play compared to how your ideal town play would be?
Well, if I were scum, there's three options I could take. Both require working with the other scumfriend.
1) Tunnel. Find a crack in a townie and go for it. And go for it. Break them.
2) General chaos. Point as many fingers everywhere, putting wedges into each crack you can find and leave the general populace to break them.
3) Bus then lead. A little riskier play but you would gain trust, especially if the other person keeps making small scumtells can be picked up.
Tiruin: Since there is no nightkill, there is no speculation on what kills mean, WIFOM or not. How will this affect your play?
Luke: I don't know much about you. I don't know your style. I've played with the others. I have at least an idea of how they play. How would you convince me that someone else is scum?
PPE:
SBC: In here? In this game? Gosh, Imp. She isn't even playing and man, is she a hell of a player. Gotta give her my respek. And beyond that, I see Tiruin a lot around the forums and she's also super awesome.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 07:09:28 pm
@makeinu: It's a mafia tactic, where someone throws whats basically a baseless accusation to see how other people reaction. Usually followed by an unvote so to at least be fair.
Speaking of which, you seem quite quick to accuse, aye Elephant Parade :P
I've read a lot of Mafia games, and this is what it looked like people were doing. I'm pretty sure it is, though that was kind of a dumb question. Unvote.
Quote from: Tiruin
I'm too lazy to actually quote, but he was asking why I asked the question, then unvoted.
I dunno. I felt like I was supposed to be active, and it didn't make sense to keep the vote when he answered.
As for why I picked that question, I was hoping he'd accidentally give some clue of being scum. But he didn't really give me much of an answer. (Yes, I know there wasn't much he could've said.)
I'll be back later to scumhunt. I'm going to check my other topics, since I just got home from school.
Speaking of which, I'm default forum time -3, so factor that in before you accuse me of lurking. Just a thing I figured I should say so I don't have to say it later.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 09:28:15 pm
'SBC: Glad to play with you again. What are your thoughts on other players?'
@Persus, Elephant Parade and Luke seems like fun :D
@ Tir.... Restate please? What do you mean by value?
@All, Who is your favorite person in this and why? (Not just in mafia, on forums as well)
I have no idea.
@makeinu: It's a mafia tactic, where someone throws whats basically a baseless accusation to see how other people reaction. Usually followed by an unvote so to at least be fair.
Speaking of which, you seem quite quick to accuse, aye Elephant Parade :P
This is RVS. You vote people to get their attention. Somebody is more likely to notice their name if it's in red; also, this way they can't dodge questions.
Are you trying to discourage me from scumhunting, Luke_Prowler?
Superblackcat: You're acting very chummy. Trying to hide something?
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 04, 2013, 09:51:55 pm
In that post, I was referring to the game. I would think that the mafia faction wouldn't do it, as they already know who the townies are, though perhaps they would do it to fish for the special roles. Or to just not look like mafia.
@Tiruin: Well, I don't think I'll need to adjust my play, as I don't have a play to adjust :P I guess rather than my usual tactic of just reading the thread and seeing who screws up first, I'll try to prod people for clues. I doubt I''l be as active as some of the others, though.
As how I will treat the mass, I'll take a page from the Inquisition. No one is above suspicion and claims of innocence are guilty of wasting my time.
@Pufferfish: I would think I would not need to convince you that someone else is scum, their own actions would be proof enough.
@Elephant Parade:
Also, I'd just like to say I love using the term "Scum".
Post by: Superblackcat on December 04, 2013, 09:53:02 pm
EDIT: Definition from google: on friendly terms; friendly. I still don't understand... Am I not supposed to be friendly?
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
Elephant.... Chummy?? I don't... understand.
EDIT: Definition from google: on friendly terms; friendly. I still don't understand... Am I not supposed to be friendly?
You're acting extremely friendly for no apparent reason, which can be a scumtell. But really, I was just hoping to gain information. Unvote.
@Luke_Prowler: It wasn't much of an accusation. The red was mainly to get your attention.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 10:01:41 pm
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 04, 2013, 10:05:59 pm
Also, don't edit.
It's not an actual edit, you just posted before I was finish with my post and I got a notification and I added accordingly.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 10:14:04 pm
Also, don't edit.
It's not an actual edit, you just posted before I was finish with my post and I got a notification and I added accordingly.
I was talking about Superblackcat.
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 10:20:01 pm
I was talking about Superblackcat.
That's not an edit button edit either, that's a player pre-post self-edit. Otherwise, you'd see something like this:
Quote
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 10:30:00 pm by TheDarkStar »
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 10:21:08 pm
I was talking about Superblackcat.
That's not an edit button edit either, that's a player pre-post self-edit. Otherwise, you'd see something like this:Quote
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 10:30:00 pm by TheDarkStar »
INCORRECT! If you edit your post immediately after you post (or very soon) it won't show up.
I figured that even though it didn't harm anything, Superblackcat might not know, and thus I should tell him.
Post by: Tiruin on December 04, 2013, 10:27:03 pm
Luckyblackcat (any abbreviations you may want for yourself?
@ Tir.... Restate please? What do you mean by value?> *checks dictionary*
@All, Who is your favorite person in this and why? (Not just in mafia, on forums as well)
No, not the definition in regard to color. When I said 'value', I mean...um. Prioritize their importance. How will you consider those people, in the scenario that you are scum.
My favorite is...Skyrunner, because she's...a real true friend and has been ever since I joined the forum. She's a real awesome person and a total free-thinker; innovative in her character and totally awesome. She's prone to worry and stress though, and probably procrastination, but I love her all the same because she's understanding and accepting. Oh, and did I mention she taught me D&D and basic programming? Yeah.
...Why did you ask us on who our favorite person is? To get a better idea of how we rate others? While I do like that kind of question as an add-on (as in, a 'get to know this player more' question + Mafia pertinent question is ok), I don't quite see anything else there.
What was on your mind when you asked that?
PPE: When he says 'Chummy' that means you're being friendly-friendly. It's a british equivalent of friend, I believe. Chum.
Puffinpuff
Tiruin: Since there is no nightkill, there is no speculation on what kills mean, WIFOM or not. How will this affect your play?Wut? Really now?
Quote
The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.[...]Sprint specifically plays much like normal mafia, but with two notable exceptions. The game is effectively Nightless: Each Day, players may collectively decide to lynch a player, but instead of advancing to a silent Night the game begins with the next Day immediately. Thus, the playerbase must talk constantly, and there is no set time to send in actions - anyone with a power role and thus a night action must send in the action during the Day.I believe the N0 is usually for coordination efforts. Meaning no NKs via technical rule.
Where did you get that idea of no nightkill?
LP (Luke, you ok with this abbr?)
@Tiruin: Well, I don't think I'll need to adjust my play, as I don't have a play to adjust :P I guess rather than my usual tactic of just reading the thread and seeing who screws up first, I'll try to prod people for clues. I doubt I''l be as active as some of the others, though.So what's your definition of people screwing up? Mine is them making mistakes.
As how I will treat the mass, I'll take a page from the Inquisition. No one is above suspicion and claims of innocence are guilty of wasting my time.
What if no mistakes are made?
...Nobody expects
Persus
> ...Bad record? AHAH, That's you growing yer sea legs 'matey! With experience grows knowledge. You'll pick up the things from constant observation soon 'nuff.-snip-Three reasons. One: I find you hard to read and have had a bad record when it comes to deciding what faction you're on. (BM I thought you were scum, you weren't. Supernatural I thought you were town. you weren't.
Two: ICs seem hard to read for me because my past experience with ICs was they either lurked or gave advice and didn't do a lot of playing.
Three: Voting you was because I didn't know how you'd react to it.
Four: D1 is usually hard for me. I rarely know what I want to ask, and so ask whatever comes to mind and helps me learn or allows me to find out more about a player's experience.
Unvote for now. I may be back later.
> ...Soo..what did you classify me under, since I was an IC you played with (well..technically. I mean, we played 1 game together so..)
> And you have my reaction. I see you pulling back however I see space which lacks notes. Why did you pull back, and anything you can say about my reaction?
> You rarely know, but you still know something. :P That is a good way to find stuff out though, but keep it pertinent!
makeinu
I see you as crafty and subtle.
Tiruin: I'm not used to this style of scum-hunting, so I'm really not sure what questions I would ask. So, I'm watching to see what others ask, and how those questions are answered.Clever, and ever-learning.
As to voting, I understand the concept of pressure votes, but dislike random votes on principle. I've yet to be convinced of the utility; that may change.
Random votes on principle are..what? Specifically, what 'principle' are you talking about? 'Random' votes are part of a playstyle, and it is up to the observer to query if such and such is random, or find a purpose behind it--basically whatever notion crosses the mind and sparks intrigue.
PPE: "aRHGHAahghhh, technical arguments!!? Well..Elephant Parade does have a point--the edit doesn't show up moment after a post, and I doubt SBC did any editing given how quick it was and what little was added. OR, he just typed the 'EDIT' part in. That's what I'm inclined to believe."
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 10:29:21 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 10:32:31 pm
makeinu
I see you as crafty and subtle.Tiruin: I'm not used to this style of scum-hunting, so I'm really not sure what questions I would ask. So, I'm watching to see what others ask, and how those questions are answered.Clever, and ever-learning.
As to voting, I understand the concept of pressure votes, but dislike random votes on principle. I've yet to be convinced of the utility; that may change.
Random votes on principle are..what? Specifically, what 'principle' are you talking about? 'Random' votes are part of a playstyle, and it is up to the observer to query if such and such is random, or find a purpose behind it--basically whatever notion crosses the mind and sparks intrigue.
Aw, gosh, thanks *bashful look*
My principles. I just don't like random votes. They serve a purpose, and they're part of a play style, I just don't care to use them. Though, I'll admit they can be very effective, mostly with newer players.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 04, 2013, 10:53:26 pm
Tiruin. No, in this game, not on the forums.
'How will you value others -in the hypothetical scenario that you're town- in being scum? Will or will not the presence of a role ability shift that viewpoint, and why?'
I still have no idea what you mean. Am I pretending to be scum or town?
Post by: Tiruin on December 04, 2013, 11:01:41 pm
SBC: In the hypothetical scenario that you are scum--meaning, the question sets the setting that you are scum, and then x happens.
Where x is "How do you see everyone else? Will the presence of a role ability shift that viewpoint, and why?'"
Also you did say on the forums 'as well'. :P
Quote
@All, Who is your favorite person in this and why? (Not just in mafia, on forums as well)You didn't specify 'in this game', and Skyrunner did state wanting to play one day, but she lacks time.
...*points at Jim Groovester*
I've had a great past with him. He mentored me with his grumpy, :| -ish snarkiness on my first BM, and it was epic. He also seems to have a PhD in Mafia, meaning he's well versed and really really a good player in my eyes.
Also is a good buddy. And a math graduate.
Post by: Persus13 on December 04, 2013, 11:08:54 pm
PersusI'd forgotten about how you WoT everything. And while you were IC, you replaced in long after I got Nked Night 1.
> ...Soo..what did you classify me under, since I was an IC you played with (well..technically. I mean, we played 1 game together so..)
> And you have my reaction. I see you pulling back however I see space which lacks notes. Why did you pull back, and anything you can say about my reaction?
I pulled back because my vote had served it's purpose for now. I was thinking of pressuring another player but decided against it at the time. Your reaction seemed very null to me and I want to talk more to get a better feel for whether your town or not. And then I'll probably think your the opposite faction.
Elephant: How will we find out when you actually attacking someone because you really think their scummy? Also, what are your thoughts on players so far?
PPE: You wanted it in game? In that case, I'd say you, since you, elephant, and Tiruin are the only players I'm familiar with, and enjoyed playing with you last BM and I'm only slightly acquainted with Elephant. Having said that, that doesn't mean I won't vote you if I think you're scummy. Also, what was the point of the question?
Post by: Persus13 on December 04, 2013, 11:28:02 pm
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 04, 2013, 11:45:34 pm
"Screwing up" would in this case means the same as you define it: Making mistakes. Specifically, slipping information they shouldn't know or a change in their speaking pattern if put under stress indicating they have something to hide.
As for no mistake, well, I don't expect that since it is a Beginner's Mafia game, but in the case that it happens I would look at whoever is the most or least talkive they might be trying to cover themselves or trying to avoid attention, or wait until new information is gleamed.
@Favorite person: I can't say I know anyone enough to have a favorite. there's some people who I'm more friendly towards than others, but I just don't post often enough to justify a favorite.
Also, in case I forget Unvote
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 11:47:47 pm
Superblackcat: Hasn't done a whole lot. Overly friendly, which is kind of suspicious. Might be scum, but might just be new.
makeinu: Hasn't done much at all. Why aren't you scumhunting? You should be scumhunting.
Perseus13: Seems slightly focused on me, but might just think he picked up on something.
Tiruin: Seemed a bit aggressive when RVSing Pufferfish, but that's probably just an initial misreading influencing further perception.
Pufferfish: Dunno. Hasn't done much, but did ask questions.
Luke_Prowler: Seemed to be a bit more upset at my RV than he should've been.
My current primary suspects are probably makeinu and Tiruin. These are probably going to change, though.
Doing homework now. I might not post again tonight.
Post by: makeinu on December 04, 2013, 11:54:40 pm
makeinu: Hasn't done much at all. Why aren't you scumhunting? You should be scumhunting.
Just because I'm not playing the game your way, doesn't mean I'm not playing.
Tiruin: I'm not used to this style of scum-hunting, so I'm really not sure what questions I would ask. So, I'm watching to see what others ask, and how those questions are answered.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 04, 2013, 11:59:45 pm
makeinu: Hasn't done much at all. Why aren't you scumhunting? You should be scumhunting.
Just because I'm not playing the game your way, doesn't mean I'm not playing.Tiruin: I'm not used to this style of scum-hunting, so I'm really not sure what questions I would ask. So, I'm watching to see what others ask, and how those questions are answered.
If you're town, you have to ask people questions. More information is always good. I'm never played this game on a forum before, and I'm at least attempting to scumhunt.
Useless town members tend to get lynched.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 12:02:41 am
In lieu of that silly wanton waste of a question, here's one from last game. While I was vocal and Squill effectively lurked the whole game as scum, why did you pick me first and not the one who was constantly lurking, not adding anything to the debate?
unvote.
Elephant Parade: I know I haven't been doing much, busy days of school, finals coming up and what-not. Nice to know what you think of me. Your questions so far have been not-so-useful. Almost actively lurking it feels like. I understand we do not know each other or what is happening just yet, but how have your questions been constructive in terms of finding scum?
PPE: Questions italicized so as not to be misread :)
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 12:05:32 am
Also, I nearly forgot to unvote.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 12:36:00 am
Makeinu:
How are you contributing at all to the scumhunt? You are only answering questions as they are directed to you, and trying shuffle off accusations. You aren't asking any questions at all. You're very suspicious to me.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 01:05:58 am
How are you contributing at all to the scumhunt? You are only answering questions as they are directed to you, and trying shuffle off accusations. You aren't asking any questions at all. You're very suspicious to me.
Your hackles are easily raised.
Up to now, nothing actively. I am, as noted, observing. But, a question for you...
Assume you're scum. What do you do to actively camouflage yourself?
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 02:26:01 am
Your hackles are easily raised.
Up to now, nothing actively. I am, as noted, observing. But, a question for you...
Assume you're scum. What do you do to actively camouflage yourself?
Actively? I'd look for someone easy to single out, who seems like a weak player and try to take them out. Or bus my partner in crime.
But it's much easier to try and lurk, isn't it? Rhetorical question.
Real question: How does not being active help you find out who scum is?
Post by: Tiruin on December 05, 2013, 02:27:11 am
My current primary suspects are probably makeinu and Tiruin. These are probably going to change, though.First of all: She.
Second of all: I can't see that {abbr} tag on this public computer and I've no idea why this doesn't make me see it except by quoting this post :< I like the way you joke, manling. I do not like how I noticed that only now given that I suspected your prioritization.
Meaning: ...You just added me for the humor, didn't you. Or perhaps poke at my formatting as my camouflage?
Interesting.
Puffinfish Your name really sounds nice when it sounds as Puffin. Teehee~
Tiruin: Ah, my mistake, I saw the words "effectively nightless" and my brain didn't catch the insta-night-kill bits. I was thinking this were to be a no-night play.Something to ponder on, that thought.
In lieu of that silly wanton waste of a question, here's one from last game. While I was vocal and Squill effectively lurked the whole game as scum, why did you pick me first and not the one who was constantly lurking, not adding anything to the debate?
But here comes up another one. What do you mean by 'why'd you pick me first'? The vote? Oh, dear puff, I vote those at whim, and I withhold my vote at whim. It's more of a player aspect than an alignment aspect, if you're looking for clues on my playstyle.
PFP
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 02:33:41 am
Something to ponder on, that thought.
But here comes up another one. What do you mean by 'why'd you pick me first'? The vote? Oh, dear puff, I vote those at whim, and I withhold my vote at whim. It's more of a player aspect than an alignment aspect, if you're looking for clues on my playstyle.
PFP
What I mean is why did you vote for the loud player who appeared to be wanting to get somewhere and not the lurker who was quietly shadowing the whole game?
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 02:34:20 am
EP May I use these abbreviations? Thanks you muchly.My current primary suspects are probably makeinu and Tiruin. These are probably going to change, though.First of all: She.
Second of all: I can't see that {abbr} tag on this public computer and I've no idea why this doesn't make me see it except by quoting this post :< I like the way you joke, manling. I do not like how I noticed that only now given that I suspected your prioritization.
Meaning: ...You just added me for the humor, didn't you. Or perhaps poke at my formatting as my camouflage?
Interesting.
Puffinfish Your name really sounds nice when it sounds as Puffin. Teehee~Tiruin: Ah, my mistake, I saw the words "effectively nightless" and my brain didn't catch the insta-night-kill bits. I was thinking this were to be a no-night play.Something to ponder on, that thought.
In lieu of that silly wanton waste of a question, here's one from last game. While I was vocal and Squill effectively lurked the whole game as scum, why did you pick me first and not the one who was constantly lurking, not adding anything to the debate?
But here comes up another one. What do you mean by 'why'd you pick me first'? The vote? Oh, dear puff, I vote those at whim, and I withhold my vote at whim. It's more of a player aspect than an alignment aspect, if you're looking for clues on my playstyle.
PFP
Sorry about using "he" instead of "she."
As for why I picked you, it was mainly a joke, and I was interested in how you would respond.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 02:47:19 am
But it's much easier to try and lurk, isn't it? Rhetorical question.
Rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway, if you don't mind :D.
Easier, yes. Safer, probably not.
Quote
Real question: How does not being active help you find out who scum is?
It doesn't, but it gives me food for thought as the rest do their hunting.
LP: If you had the choice, what role would you most like to play, and why? Not in the context of this game, but in general.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 02:52:47 am
But it's much easier to try and lurk, isn't it? Rhetorical question.
Rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway, if you don't mind :D.
Easier, yes. Safer, probably not.QuoteReal question: How does not being active help you find out who scum is?
It doesn't, but it gives me food for thought as the rest do their hunting.
LP: If you had the choice, what role would you most like to play, and why? Not in the context of this game, but in general.
You can obtain more knowledge by asking questions.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 03:18:09 am
You can obtain more knowledge by asking questions.
There's a mental switch that needs to be thrown to transition from a game where private communications channels are authorized and used heavily (where I learned to play) and one where they're expressly forbidden.
Post by: notquitethere on December 05, 2013, 06:01:53 am
The suns were almost at their highest point. By sundown they'd have to push someone out into the rain.
Vote Count
------------------------
Elephant Parade (1) -Persus 13,
Luke_Prowler -
makeinu (1) - Pufferfish
Persus13 -
Pufferfish (1) - Tiruin,
Superblackcat -
Tiruin -
Not Voting - makeinu, Elephant Parade, Luke_Prowler, Superblackcat
Day ends Friday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 28 hours.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 08:00:15 am
Superblackcat: Hasn't done a whole lot. Overly friendly, which is kind of suspicious. Might be scum, but might just be new.Overly friendly isn't necessarily suspicious by itself as it can just be someone's playstyle.
HE'S HIDING HIS SCUMMINESS BEHIND FANCY FORMATTING. I'M 9001% SURE OF IT.That's just Tiruin being Tiruin, although sometimes she can be unreadable.
Tiruin: Ah, my mistake, I saw the words "effectively nightless" and my brain didn't catch the insta-night-kill bits. I was thinking this were to be a no-night play.Why are you asking Tiruin to vote the player you consider scummy?
In lieu of that silly wanton waste of a question, here's one from last game. While I was vocal and Squill effectively lurked the whole game as scum, why did you pick me first and not the one who was constantly lurking, not adding anything to the debate?
Tiruin: Is there a reason behind you voting Puff?
Post by: Tiruin on December 05, 2013, 10:53:55 am
Puffinfish Your name really sounds nice when it sounds as Puffin. Teehee~> The vote was part of an RVS as I considered you as an able player--one who could take down and rationalize anyone else in a clear format. The person lurking--given this game context--I discarded as someone either busy due to RL or timezones. In truth, I..didn't check the profiles for lurking (..I mean, lurking D1? >_> Nice work guys. This is a BM and then you do such things?)Tiruin: Ah, my mistake, I saw the words "effectively nightless" and my brain didn't catch the insta-night-kill bits. I was thinking this were to be a no-night play.Something to ponder on, that thought.
In lieu of that silly wanton waste of a question, here's one from last game. While I was vocal and Squill effectively lurked the whole game as scum, why did you pick me first and not the one who was constantly lurking, not adding anything to the debate?
But here comes up another one. What do you mean by 'why'd you pick me first'? The vote? Oh, dear puff, I vote those at whim, and I withhold my vote at whim. It's more of a player aspect than an alignment aspect, if you're looking for clues on my playstyle.
PFP
Who is that one lurking--how or what did he do, and why do you think he is a prospective target?
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 05:32:26 pm
All right. unvote.To me this sounds very similar to ElephantParade's earlier attack on makeinu. Do you think he is scum because of little contribution?
Makeinu:
How are you contributing at all to the scumhunt? You are only answering questions as they are directed to you, and trying shuffle off accusations. You aren't asking any questions at all. You're very suspicious to me.
Makeinu: What is your plan for finding scum?
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 05, 2013, 06:02:21 pm
Also, you've been particularly quiet, Luke_Prowler. What devious plans do you hide...
@Pufferfish: Do you fear being eliminated? By either town or mafia.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 06:21:05 pm
Makeinu: What is your plan for finding scum?
To watch for inconsistencies in stories, in part.
Also, you've been particularly quiet, Luke_Prowler. What devious plans do you hide...
Why did you just vote for yourself? I don't see that as a quote anywhere on the thread.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 06:29:29 pm
How successful do you think that has been? Do you think anyone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch?Makeinu: What is your plan for finding scum?
To watch for inconsistencies in stories, in part.
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 05, 2013, 06:31:20 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 06:35:36 pm
How successful do you think that has been? Do you think anyone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch?
Inconsistencies, no, not yet.
FoS @ ElephantParade (is that what the dark blue is used for here?). He seems overly eager to point fingers at others and accuse them of not scum-hunting. That could be a product of many things, but of all so far, he seems most suspicious to me.
@Luke: funny, but dangerous.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 06:56:08 pm
How successful do you think that has been? Do you think anyone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch?
Inconsistencies, no, not yet.
FoS @ ElephantParade (is that what the dark blue is used for here?). He seems overly eager to point fingers at others and accuse them of not scum-hunting. That could be a product of many things, but of all so far, he seems most suspicious to me.
@Luke: funny, but dangerous.
Have I accused anybody other than you of not scumhunting? Remember, this is RVS. The entire point is to accuse random people.
You, on the other hand, are either useless town or scum. Unvote, vote makeinu. I may unvote you if you begin actually doing stuff.
If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 08:27:06 pm
Have I accused anybody other than you of not scumhunting? Remember, this is RVS. The entire point is to accuse random people.
You, on the other hand, are either useless town or scum. Unvote, vote makeinu. I may unvote you if you begin actually doing stuff.
If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.
Elephant Parade, everything you've done so far just screams "I'm trying too hard" to me, and your post above really doesn't jibe with this:
Joining, I guess. I've never played Forum Mafia before, but it should be fun.
Nor does this one:
This is RVS. You vote people to get their attention. Somebody is more likely to notice their name if it's in red; also, this way they can't dodge questions.
I think you're playing us, and I think you're scum.
Frankly, I am weary with arguments. But, since you want to engage in a semantics argument, the words "scum-hunting" have only crossed your lips with regards to me. That does not mean that you haven't back-hand accused others of the same:
Superblackcat: Hasn't done a whole lot. Overly friendly, which is kind of suspicious. Might be scum, but might just be new.
Pufferfish: Dunno. Hasn't done much, but did ask questions.
And then, when I do start asking questions, which you apparently see as the only valid scum-hunt technique, you double down with what looks to me to be an OMGUS vote?
Hmmm.....
I was wrong. I have found inconsistencies. And you never answered this question:
Your questions so far have been not-so-useful. Almost actively lurking it feels like. I understand we do not know each other or what is happening just yet, but how have your questions been constructive in terms of finding scum?
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 08:34:22 pm
To me this sounds very similar to ElephantParade's earlier attack on makeinu. Do you think he is scum because of little contribution?
He is either scum who is lurking or a townie who is not contributing. Both are dangerous. And both need to be eliminated in order to get a clearer story of what's going on.
It is very similar to Elephant Parade's earlier (and current) accusations of MakeInu, because it's what is happening. He is answering questions directed at him, and asking little, which is even less constructive to a town win.
Are you trying to accuse me of Band Wagoning?
FoS @ ElephantParade (is that what the dark blue is used for here?). He seems overly eager to point fingers at others and accuse them of not scum-hunting. That could be a product of many things, but of all so far, he seems most suspicious to me.
So because he found a fault in your play, and is questioning about you while pressuring you with a vote, that makes him suspicious? How so? How does a person being suspicious of you make them a target?
@Pufferfish: Do you fear being eliminated? By either town or mafia.
Elimination is no fun, but so long as I play to my WinCon, I do not fear being eliminated so long as the WinCon is achieved. Shouldn't that be how this game is played? Not to elimination but to WinCon? There's no survivor role in this game so survival is secondary to weeding out the scum.
PPE
Makeinu:
And you never answered this question:Your questions so far have been not-so-useful. Almost actively lurking it feels like. I understand we do not know each other or what is happening just yet, but how have your questions been constructive in terms of finding scum?
Actually he did.
@Pufferfish: I don't know what questions to ask, but I figured weak questions were better than no questions. I was hoping somebody would say something the tiniest bit suspicious.
Also, I nearly forgot to unvote.
That's an inconsistency for you, MakeInu.
Another few questions, then. How is being silent helpful for your fellow town players? What are other viable scum-hunting options aside from actively asking constructive questions?
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 08:38:37 pm
> The vote was part of an RVS as I considered you as an able player--one who could take down and rationalize anyone else in a clear format. The person lurking--given this game context--I discarded as someone either busy due to RL or timezones. In truth, I..didn't check the profiles for lurking (..I mean, lurking D1? >_> Nice work guys. This is a BM and then you do such things?)
Who is that one lurking--how or what did he do, and why do you think he is a prospective target?
What I mean is why did you vote for the loud player who appeared to be wanting to get somewhere and not the lurker who was quietly shadowing the whole game?
That's a good enough answer. I was talking about Squill's lurking and now I am talking about MakeInu who has, recently, been actively lurking. He's a target as he's added little to no constructive comments, answers, or questions to the discussion. Which, funnily enough, is constructive in itself hee hee.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 08:47:23 pm
That's an inconsistency for you, MakeInu.
Another few questions, then. How is being silent helpful for your fellow town players? What are other viable scum-hunting options aside from actively asking constructive questions?
Thank you for pointing that out. I had missed it, but it's pretty much a non-answer, in my opinion. My point still stands. As does my vote.
I wasn't aware that I'd been all that silent, and again, it still stands that he doubled down after I started scum-hunting by his "never played forum mafia before" approved method of scum-hunting. Whether my questions are useful to the town or not, I don't know, but they've been useful to me, as has watching. And if you want to know how that can be useful to the town, then consider that sometimes, it's necessary to see the bigger picture to catch the tiny details.
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
Because it strikes me that he's merely flailing about with random accusations that go far beyond the norm for an RVS strategy. As I said above, trying too hard. That, to me, is a scum-tell. "Look at how Town I am! I'm scum-hunting! A lot! Are you scum-hunting? I don't think you're scum-hunting enough!"
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 08:57:45 pm
So you were scum planning on lurking your way to victory until Elephant voted you? Why did you just FOS when you have a vote you could use?How successful do you think that has been? Do you think anyone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch?
Inconsistencies, no, not yet.
-snip-I'm sorry, but I fail to see what's inconsistent about those posts. Can you explain it to me? You seem fairly scummy right now. And just because someone voted you doesn't mean they're scum. Town v. Town and Scum v. Scum voting are fairly common.
Have I accused anybody other than you of not scumhunting? Remember, this is RVS. The entire point is to accuse random people.I do think you're throwing your vote around too fast and makeinu has a point. Your vote can be used as pressure, but if you move it too quickly the pressure isn't always felt. Leaving it on someone to see how they react is another good tactic. Also, voting someone does say you think they should be lynched so using it too lightly isn't the best.
You, on the other hand, are either useless town or scum. Unvote, vote makeinu. I may unvote you if you begin actually doing stuff.
If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.
Why do you want to lynch makeinu so bad. You scumbuddies with Puff looking for an easy lynch?
townie who is not contributing. Both are dangerous. And both need to be eliminated in order to get a clearer story of what's going on.So you think lynching town is acceptable if their useless.
No, I'm trying to whether that was bandwagoning or you just agreed with him and came to your own conclusion.
Are you trying to accuse me of Band Wagoning?
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.Hmm, interesting.
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
Luke_Prowler: I'd like hear more from you. What are your thoughts on the game so far?
Tiruin: Same with you.
Day ends soon and I don't want to waste it.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 08:59:48 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 09:34:03 pm
Thank you for pointing that out. I had missed it, but it's pretty much a non-answer, in my opinion. My point still stands. As does my vote.
I don't think it was a non-answer. He understood my question and responded in a way that made sense of his motive to me. He told me he was flailing about with weak questions and understood that they went nowhere.
Quote
I wasn't aware that I'd been all that silent, and again, it still stands that he doubled down after I started scum-hunting by his "never played forum mafia before" approved method of scum-hunting. Whether my questions are useful to the town or not, I don't know, but they've been useful to me, as has watching. And if you want to know how that can be useful to the town, then consider that sometimes, it's necessary to see the bigger picture to catch the tiny details.
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.
So not contributing can be considered scum-hunting? Are you saying that it is impossible to see the bigger picture by asking questions and looking for motive?
Quote
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
Because it strikes me that he's merely flailing about with random accusations that go far beyond the norm for an RVS strategy. As I said above, trying too hard. That, to me, is a scum-tell. "Look at how Town I am! I'm scum-hunting! A lot! Are you scum-hunting? I don't think you're scum-hunting enough!"
I now do assert that, at the very least, his questions and responses have been vastly more helpful than anything you've contributed.
Spoiler: inconsistencies? (click to show/hide)
I do not see any inconsistencies within those posts. He performed his RVS, saw you acting scummy by deflecting questions and trying to lurk, and started to question why. I don't see an OMGUS here.
Also the fact that you missed his response which was directly below mine strikes me as odd, as if you only spent a very small amount of time even thinking about looking for the answer.
I'm finding you pretty guilty of scumminess, Makeinu. How does staying silent benefit your allies, of which you do have, in any way, shape or form? How does staying silent help convince us that you are not scum, or at least, that others are scummier than you?
Persus:
If htey are not contributing to the town victory, then absolutely. The Play or Die is a thing literally because of this. If they are lurking, they are scum or useless. If they a scum, we got a scum. If they are useless, it eliminates dead weight, narrows down the suspects, and we can finally read their posts in a non-scum manner.townie who is not contributing. Both are dangerous. And both need to be eliminated in order to get a clearer story of what's going on.So you think lynching town is acceptable if their useless.
Quote
No, I'm trying to whether that was bandwagoning or you just agreed with him and came to your own conclusion.
Are you trying to accuse me of Band Wagoning?
I can tell you I came to my own conclusion, as much as you are willing to believe me.
Quote
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.Hmm, interesting.
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
The question was meant to pressure EP and he gave me an acceptable response, and has since then been asking much more constructive questions.
Now, Who are you considering to be your top three suspects?
Luke:
What in the name of Armok possessed you to vote yourself? Why aren't you trying to find out who scum is, unless it's actually you?
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 09:42:26 pm
So you were scum planning on lurking your way to victory until Elephant voted you? Why did you just FOS when you have a vote you could use?
I'm not going to justify the first question with a response beyond this, nor your post-question comments save to say that I didn't vote EP because he'd voted me; if that were to have been my reaction, I'd have done that long back earlier in the day. As to the second, I don't believe in throwing down votes wildly; I prefer to voice suspicion first when I haven't had the opportunity to properly weigh the facts in evidence as I see them.
Quote
I'm sorry, but I fail to see what's inconsistent about those posts. Can you explain it to me?
First he claims never to have played forum mafia, and then he's tossing around terms and strategies as though he were a pro at it? And that doesn't strike you as inconsistent?
Color me baffled, then.
Quote
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.Hmm, interesting.
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
I'll leave this one to stand.
Quote
Luke_Prowler: I'd like hear more from you. What are your thoughts on the game so far?
Tiruin: Same with you.
Day ends soon and I don't want to waste it.
Same from me.
@Pufferfish: I had seven tabs open scanning the thread to look at all the replies at once and be able to quote from them as needed. Missing one post ought to be understandable, but even if it's not in your eyes, that was still a total non-answer in my eyes. YMMV.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 10:07:31 pm
Quote
I do think you're throwing your vote around too fast and makeinu has a point. Your vote can be used as pressure, but if you move it too quickly the pressure isn't always felt. Leaving it on someone to see how they react is another good tactic. Also, voting someone does say you think they should be lynched so using it too lightly isn't the best.Thanks for the tip, good sir.
Quote
Why do you want to lynch makeinu so bad. You scumbuddies with Puff looking for an easy lynch?
No. If I was scum, I might target him, but I might also target Superblackcat, who needs to start posting.
Makeinu: Please start actually scumhunting. All you've done so far is OMGUS the crap out of people. Unless I missed something, of course.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 10:15:16 pm
Makeinu: Please start actually scumhunting. All you've done so far is OMGUS the crap out of people. Unless I missed something, of course.
I am, ahthankyuh. And one person does not people make, nor does a vote with reason an OMGUS make.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 10:20:21 pm
Makeinu: Please start actually scumhunting. All you've done so far is OMGUS the crap out of people. Unless I missed something, of course.
I am, ahthankyuh. And one person does not people make, nor does a vote with reason an OMGUS make.
Pretty sure you've only asked questions of the people who've targeted you. That's pure OMGUS.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 10:24:46 pm
The Play or Die is a thing literally because of this. If they are lurking, they are scum or useless. If they a scum, we got a scum. If they are useless, it eliminates dead weight, narrows down the suspects, and we can finally read their posts in a non-scum manner.So you support a policy lynch of lurkers?
And I'm not the one who pointed out that EP's questions have not been constructive ones, you were.Hmm, interesting.
Do you now assert that EP has been asking constructive questions all along?
The question was meant to pressure EP and he gave me an acceptable response, and has since then been asking much more constructive questions.[/quote] Okay, but you are suddenly defending him.
Now, Who are you considering to be your top three suspects?Ladder of Scumminess from greatest to least:
1. Elephant, makeinu
2. Puff
3. SBC, Tiruin, Luke
4. Me
Right now I think you and Elephant may be the scum team. I think makeinu is scummy but I think a poor playstyle is mainly responsible and that hopefully this game will cause him to improve. After all, that's the goal of a BM. Everyone else hasn't really done much recently.
I'm not going to justify the first question with a response beyond thisThat was pretty much my reaction when this happened to me for the first time. The problem is that denying the accusation is the intended goal. However, your answer made me think that you don't realize how scummy to us your playstyle is at the moment. It's a very scummy playstyle on this forum.
I didn't vote EP because he'd voted me;Well, the thing is we can't see your motivation. I saw you, who seems scummy to me, go from being somewhat suspicious of a player to voting him and attacking him after he first seriously voted you and tried to hang you.
I prefer to voice suspicion first when I haven't had the opportunity to properly weigh the facts in evidence as I see them.Ah. Okay, its just not voting anyone but being suspicious of someone is a scumtell. You should always vote either the person you think is the scummiest or at the end of day pick someone you wouldn't mind lynching. It's not like you can't unvote or change it if you change your mind.
First he claims never to have played forum mafia, and then he's tossing around terms and strategies as though he were a pro at it? And that doesn't strike you as inconsistent?Okay, that makes sense, but he could have read some other games. That's how I picked up how to play.
If I was scum, I might target him, but I might also target Superblackcat, who needs to start posting.True, but in general it's easier to get someone scummy lynched then someone lurking.
All you've done so far is OMGUS the crap out of people.He's only done that to you, but other than that I'd agree.
PPE: THis is the third time now.
Usually OMGUS is only applied to votes.Makeinu: Please start actually scumhunting. All you've done so far is OMGUS the crap out of people. Unless I missed something, of course.
I am, ahthankyuh. And one person does not people make, nor does a vote with reason an OMGUS make.
Pretty sure you've only asked questions of the people who've targeted you. That's pure OMGUS.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 10:26:28 pm
Pretty sure you've only asked questions of the people who've targeted you. That's pure OMGUS.
Then you need to look again.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 10:35:00 pm
Pretty sure you've only asked questions of the people who've targeted you. That's pure OMGUS.
Then you need to look again.
Maybe I do. However, I'd appreciate it if you would quote some things targeted at others, since I don't remember any.
@Perseus & Makeinu: I've probably read around 8 or 9 Bay12 mafia games, so I know terminology and stuff.
Luckyblackcat: Are you not around? Why aren't you doing stuff?
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 10:52:51 pm
I'm not going to justify the first question with a response beyond thisThat was pretty much my reaction when this happened to me for the first time. The problem is that denying the accusation is the intended goal. However, your answer made me think that you don't realize how scummy to us your playstyle is at the moment. It's a very scummy playstyle on this forum.
Apparently, I don't, because I don't see my playstyle as scummy. Live and learn, I guess.
Quote
I didn't vote EP because he'd voted me;Well, the thing is we can't see your motivation. I saw you, who seems scummy to me, go from being somewhat suspicious of a player to voting him and attacking him after he first seriously voted you and tried to hang you.
Tried to hang me with what, exactly? He has on more than one occasion accused me of "doing nothing", not scum-hunting, and now, of asking questions only of people who've targeted me, which is patently absurd and easily proven wrong, by simple observation.
Given his reaction to my statement regarding how suspicious I find him, and having had the chance to go through and reread posts, I felt that changing from FoS to vote was entirely appropriate.
Further, my post changing to a vote on EP was written entirely before I saw his response to my suspicion post. Not, naturally, that you'd know that, so there you go. I'd made up my mind after rereading the thread to change to a vote for him before he voted again for me in response to my suspicions.
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I prefer to voice suspicion first when I haven't had the opportunity to properly weigh the facts in evidence as I see them.Ah. Okay, its just not voting anyone but being suspicious of someone is a scumtell. You should always vote either the person you think is the scummiest or at the end of day pick someone you wouldn't mind lynching. It's not like you can't unvote or change it if you change your mind.
I disagree, but clearly that's a playstyle variation between here and where I've played in the past. Noted. Voice suspicion with votes. Got it.
Being suspicious, and voicing same, when there's time left in the day to change that to a vote is, to me, a way of spurring conversation. "Hey, guys, I noticed this about so-and-so. What do you think?"
FWIW, probably little but whatever, I'm in agreement with you on the likely scum team.
PPE:
@Perseus & Makeinu: I've probably read around 8 or 9 Bay12 mafia games, so I know terminology and stuff.
It's not, to me, that you know the terminology, it's the way in which you apply it, and the way you're playing in general, that strikes me as inconsistent in your claims.
Also, you've been particularly quiet, Luke_Prowler. What devious plans do you hide...
Why did you just vote for yourself? I don't see that as a quote anywhere on the thread.
LP: If you had the choice, what role would you most like to play, and why? Not in the context of this game, but in general.
Caz, Persus: do you find it often the case that claims of town alignment are typically scum-tells?
All questions asked not in response to anything made against me.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:00:17 pm
I'll start scumhunting again later tonight or tomorrow.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 11:03:30 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:05:17 pm
Please, someone, clarify: is the dark blue text intended to represent suspicion? Mostly it represents "can't read it at all" to me.
Yep.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 11:07:01 pm
Please, someone, clarify: is the dark blue text intended to represent suspicion? Mostly it represents "can't read it at all" to me.
Yep.
Thank you. Another forum idiosyncrasy to adjust to.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 11:07:32 pm
The Play or Die is a thing literally because of this. If they are lurking, they are scum or useless. If they a scum, we got a scum. If they are useless, it eliminates dead weight, narrows down the suspects, and we can finally read their posts in a non-scum manner.So you support a policy lynch of lurkers?
In one word, yes.
In more, I support a policy of lynching those who do not add anything to the common knowledge of the game. As a town player, one should be aiming, first and foremost, to the collection of common knowledge of the township in order to weed out the scum.
Quote
Okay, but you are suddenly defending him.
If I am defending him, it's actually not in a way I had noticed haha. I was noticing a fallacy in one of MakeInu's arguments and calling him out on it.
How do you believe the township should handle lurkers, if not through a Play or Die stand point?
EP:
If you are a townie, how would you handle a lurker? How about a very active and aggravating poster who you believe to be scum?
MakeInu:
Quote
Frankly, I am weary with arguments.I just noticed this line. This is mafia. A game purely about arguments. Arguments that last days. If you're weary of arguments already, how are you going to stand the rest of the game?
SBC:
Come on now, you were quiet in the other BM, too. How spotty do you think you are going to be, for this BM?
PPE:
My vote still stands on you, MakeInu.
And yes, the dark blue is meant to be Finger of Suspicion.
P-PPE:
Yeah, it's mostly useful so people know your lineup.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 11:08:29 pm
Please, someone, clarify: is the dark blue text intended to represent suspicion? Mostly it represents "can't read it at all" to me.Yes that would be correct.
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 11:13:16 pm
If you're weary of arguments already, how are you going to stand the rest of the game?
Heh. Flavor text.
Lynch the lurkers is a very valid strategy, though, generally, lurkers tend to be unengaged town in my experience. So, it's of mixed utility, ultimately.
Yes, you're getting rid of someone who's not contributing to the discussion, but it's longer odds that you're lynching a lurking scum, so in the end, you're giving advantage: scum.
I've read elsewhere that a D1 "no lynch" gives an inherent advantage to the scum. I'm of mixed feelings on this, largely because I believe that goes more to how balanced the game is.
Still, again, very valid strategy.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:19:49 pm
Anyways, I'm very curious. It seemed to me that you were unhappy with me being overly-friendly. (Before I was gone, you seemed suspicious of me, I'm sure you are more so since I've been gone, but I'm going back to before that.)
Why do you think we should NOT be overly friendly, and what should we be?
Tiruin, if I was mafia, I would view others in terms of their likeliness of being a PR, effect on the other players, their logic (Which ties into the previous one), and the amount of confusion their death would cause to the group.
What does your ..... acronyms? mean.
Also, My previous question meant that for the people in this game, which do you like the most, and you can use evidence from other parts of the forum for that person.
Makeinu:
After Elephant, who do you think is the most scummy, and why, Are there any that you think is more scummy than Elephant? Which person thus far's play style do you like the most?
Elephant:
Who do you think is the most scummy, (And if it is me, please choose a second person as well). Who's play style do you like the most?
Persus: what are your thoughts on Tiruin, what parts of her posts thus far do you like, and which do you not.
Puffer: What do you think was the best play you did in the previous game.
Extend.
Also, correct my if I'm wrong, I managed to misread the last game for 2 weeks.... This is a 7 player, 2 mafia game.
(After reading your new post)
Makeinu, What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of NL.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:23:08 pm
If you're weary of arguments already, how are you going to stand the rest of the game?
Heh. Flavor text.
Lynch the lurkers is a very valid strategy, though, generally, lurkers tend to be unengaged town in my experience. So, it's of mixed utility, ultimately.
Yes, you're getting rid of someone who's not contributing to the discussion, but it's longer odds that you're lynching a lurking scum, so in the end, you're giving advantage: scum.
I've read elsewhere that a D1 "no lynch" gives an inherent advantage to the scum. I'm of mixed feelings on this, largely because I believe that goes more to how balanced the game is.
Still, again, very valid strategy.
Quote
flavor text???
Quote
Yes, you're getting rid of someone who's not contributing to the discussion, but it's longer odds that you're lynching a lurking scum, so in the end, you're giving advantage: scum.Except that lynching a lurker is still better than lynching an active, non-scummy player. None of the players seem particularly scummy to me so far (except you) so lynching you makes sense to me.
Quote
I've read elsewhere that a D1 "no lynch" gives an inherent advantage to the scum. I'm of mixed feelings on this, largely because I believe that goes more to how balanced the game is.It does, because you don't get information.
As for the second sentence, do you mean that how much of an advantage it gives the scum depends on game balance?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:25:40 pm
Elephant, but what about the extra day when you NL? ( I do not agree or disagree, it depends on the situation).
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 11:26:39 pm
Basically your playstyle could easily be interpreted as trying to be active without actually doing anything. That's a scum tactic, and you seem to be doing quite well.I'm not going to justify the first question with a response beyond thisThat was pretty much my reaction when this happened to me for the first time. The problem is that denying the accusation is the intended goal. However, your answer made me think that you don't realize how scummy to us your playstyle is at the moment. It's a very scummy playstyle on this forum.
Apparently, I don't, because I don't see my playstyle as scummy. Live and learn, I guess.
Tried to hang me with what, exactly?
If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.
Given his reaction to my statement regarding how suspicious I find him, and having had the chance to go through and reread posts, I felt that changing from FoS to vote was entirely appropriate.My point was that you may know your motivation, but no-one knows if you are telling the truth.
Okay.QuoteOkay, but you are suddenly defending him.
If I am defending him, it's actually not in a way I had noticed haha. I was noticing a fallacy in one of MakeInu's arguments and calling him out on it.
How do you believe the township should handle lurkers, if not through a Play or Die stand point?Get them to play. This can involve votes and in extreme cases lynching or encouraging them to replace. I was in the last BM too.
What does your ..... acronyms? mean.There's a handy list in the OP. You might be thinking of
PPE: Pre-Post Edit
EBWOP: Edit by way of Post
Persus: what are your thoughts on Tiruin, what parts of her posts thus far do you like, and which do you not.As usual I'm getting mostly null on her. She seems to be leaning more town than some of the others in the game. But I'm bad at reading her and sometimes reading ICs, so she could be scum.[/quote]
Extend.We can do that?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:32:09 pm
if so.
Elephant Parade.
You seem to be doing very well trying to lead a BW.
It does not seem to me that you are doing much more than MakeInU, He/She just seems to be willing to say that he/she doesn't know what he/she is doing. (Maybe I should start being Darvi, and start calling y'all Its)
Which post of yours do you think is the most beneficial to town and this discussion?
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 11:36:23 pm
Are we not allowed to.... Extend?We can only do it once. And can you explain what you were saying to elephant.
Also, the handy list of abbreviations can be found =http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.0here (http://=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.0here) because I was wrong about them being in the OP.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:39:02 pm
Quote
Why do you think we should NOT be overly friendly, and what should we be?It seems suspicious, kind of like going "I'M TOTALLY TOWN GUYS." But I only bugged you about that because it was near the beginning and I had nothing to go on.
Quote
Who do you think is the most scummy, (And if it is me, please choose a second person as well). Who's play style do you like the most?
Hmm... probably makeinu, since he didn't do anything until he was repeatedly prodded. Might just be newb-ness, though.
Quote
You seem to be doing very well trying to lead a BW.Dunno what that acronym means.
Quote
It does not seem to me that you are doing much more than MakeInU, He/She just seems to be willing to say that he/she doesn't know what he/she is doing. (Maybe I should start being Darvi, and start calling y'all Its)
I was being much more active than him earlier. I wasn't very active today because I was busier.
Quote
Elephant Parade.
Is this a pressure vote because I didn't answer your questions?
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:39:48 pm
Are we not allowed to.... Extend?We can only do it once. And can you explain what you were saying to elephant.
Also, the handy list of abbreviations can be found =http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.0here (http://=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.0here) because I was wrong about them being in the OP.
BROKEN LINK OF THE YEAR AWARD.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 05, 2013, 11:43:11 pm
Puffer: What do you think was the best play you did in the previous game.
Uh. I'd say it was while talking to Imp and keeping them from lynching me for so long. As I saw it, my role was already doomed to the lynch.
Why do you think the accusations of MakeInu are a band wagon?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:48:02 pm
Elephant: It was more of a if No one replies, I don't do anything, ( and 3pm GMT is like 8 here, and I'm at school then) by the end of this. I want someone to die.
MakeInU seems genuinely nooby, it has said that it was a noob and that it thought however it played was correct.
You seem to think that you are not a noob, even though you haven't played in a while, maybe you do think that you are a noob, I'm not sure. But you seem to want to kill it (make in u) for a reason that is... Halfway suspiscious at most, attacking her for things that you seem to be doing, since you haven't done much other than tunnel on it, after your initial startup.
BW means bandwagon.
Tunnel means completely focused on attacking it.
_________________________________________
Ninja post:
Puffer: I think that the accusations against MakeInU are easily nooby, and not worth killing over. It seems to me that Elephant wants someone dead, and he finds Make the easiest to get rid of. I'm sure it has been scummy, but all of it can be explained by pure nooby-ness, and I'm not up for lynching it (Unless something drastic happens) Until tomorrow, D2. (Where it should be more familiar with how this works).
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:48:31 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 05, 2013, 11:50:43 pm
Makeinu:
After Elephant, who do you think is the most scummy, and why, Are there any that you think is more scummy than Elephant? Which person thus far's play style do you like the most?
After Elephant, I'm inclined toward Pufferfish. No, there aren't. So far, Persus and Tiruin. I feel that I could learn much from them.
Quote
Makeinu, What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of NL.
D1, we're 7:2. D2 we're guaranteed to be 6:2 if there's no D1 lynch. With a mis-lynch, which is always a strong possibility, D2 opens 5:2, a big scum advantage. So, barring good information, a D1 lynch stands mathematically to give advantage to the scum. Thus, the back-and-forth of D1: information seeking. But, at the end of the day, if all you have to go on are feelings and hunches, you're still more likely mis-lynching than not.
Quoteflavor text???
I was curious to see whether anyone would catch it, and how they'd react.
Quote
QuoteYes, you're getting rid of someone who's not contributing to the discussion, but it's longer odds that you're lynching a lurking scum, so in the end, you're giving advantage: scum.Except that lynching a lurker is still better than lynching an active, non-scummy player.
See my response above, to SBC. Just because someone seems scummy doesn't mean they are. Playstyles vary, and what is scummy here is not necessarily elsewhere.
Quote
QuoteI've read elsewhere that a D1 "no lynch" gives an inherent advantage to the scum. I'm of mixed feelings on this, largely because I believe that goes more to how balanced the game is.It does, because you don't get information.
As for the second sentence, do you mean that how much of an advantage it gives the scum depends on game balance?
Is the information you gain, which you only gain if there's an informative post-death flip, worth tossing the scum a free kill? After all, the devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist. The scum always look to turn the town on themselves. Always. Every game. Every venue.
It's convincing the town to do their work for them: kill townies.
As to rthe second sentence, yes. A mis-lynch can very easily turn the advantage strongly to the scum. Hypothetical: what if your target for lynching happens to be the town Doctor who just doesn't happen to be playing well? Sure, he looks scummy as hell, and you sleep well at night knowing you've done the right thing in removing an "unhelpful" player, because you don't know he's scum, but who won in that transaction?
Basically your playstyle could easily be interpreted as trying to be active without actually doing anything. That's a scum tactic, and you seem to be doing quite well.I'm not going to justify the first question with a response beyond thisThat was pretty much my reaction when this happened to me for the first time. The problem is that denying the accusation is the intended goal. However, your answer made me think that you don't realize how scummy to us your playstyle is at the moment. It's a very scummy playstyle on this forum.
Apparently, I don't, because I don't see my playstyle as scummy. Live and learn, I guess.
Fair enough. Again, playstyle differences. Eventually, I shall learn them all.
Quote
Tried to hang me with what, exactly?If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.Given his reaction to my statement regarding how suspicious I find him, and having had the chance to go through and reread posts, I felt that changing from FoS to vote was entirely appropriate.My point was that you may know your motivation, but no-one knows if you are telling the truth.
Always a risk one takes. On the surface, we're all lying to one another.
PPE: Thank you both for the link to the acronym thread, and I presume BW to mean bandwagon. <--ninja'd
SBC: He. It's on my profile.
Pufferfish: I find your CamelCase on my name amusing, for some reason.
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2013, 11:52:18 pm
What the? Fixed.
Also, the handy list of abbreviations can be found here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133728.0) because I was wrong about them being in the OP.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:53:17 pm
Makeinu: But if you think it another way, if you NL, on D3 you come up to the exact same 5/2, except both deaths were chosen by mafia instead of town. whereas, lynching town gets to choose one.
Also, I really want to say she for some reason :<
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:54:14 pm
I have never played Mafia on a forum. I know a few techniques from reading games, but that's it.
I know what tunnel means; I just hadn't run into BW before.
PPE: ...Ninja'd.
@makeinu: From the games I've read, a no-lynch D1 is generally considered to be a bad thing simply because of how vital information is.
Also, I probably won't be active tomorrow before the lynch. Timezones.
PPEE: ...Ninja'd again. But it doesn't matter this time.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 05, 2013, 11:56:17 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 11:59:26 pm
Elephant: Do you think seeing what the mafia kills based on the information during the day is important?
Kinda. I'm not sure how much it should be read into, though. Anyway, in my opinion a 1/7 (or 1/6, depending on your viewpoint) chance of getting scum is better than none.
Superblackcat: You haven't been using a lot of quotes in your questions. Too lazy to bother, or afraid that somebody will find a lack of truth behind your arguments?
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 12:06:27 am
MakeInU seems genuinely nooby, it has said that it was a noob and that it thought however it played was correct.
Clarification: Not noob, just new to here. Different playstyle requires some adjustment.
Quote
But if you think it another way, if you NL, on D3 you come up to the exact same 5/2, except both deaths were chosen by mafia instead of town. whereas, lynching town gets to choose one.
I take your point, but how does that result in a difference if the D1 lynch is a townie? Yes, there's the fact that one of the lynches was chosen by everyone, in theory, but the scum are part of that, and it's certain that they'll have voted for that mis-lynch, which simply means they've temporarily recruited the town to help do their job.
Also, D3 only comes up 5:2 if there's no lynch two days in a row. If the D2 lynch is also a mis-lynch, D3 starts 3:2; if the town gets good info, and lynches scum on D2, then D3 starts 4:1.
So a mis-lynch on D1 is very harmful to the town unless the flip and N1 town actions provide good info. Which is entirely dependent upon the mod and the game setup. You simply can't count on the D1 lynch/no-lynch to always benefit one side or the other; it's subjective.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:09:34 am
And people rereading this can be less lazy and scroll up 2 posts to your post if they want to.
Makeinu: You realize nl d1 and then lynching d2 is about the worst move you could do....
Since if you mislynch d2... we lose? So if we are lynching, it would be 100000x smarter to NL again if you NLed d1 to go to d3, see who dies, cross that person off the could be scum list, and try to figure it out from there.
No point in lynching d2 if NL. If ML, we must lynch d2 to win.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:12:50 am
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 12:14:25 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:16:57 am
Depending on the setup (starting player count, info reveals on night kills, et cetera), yes, you're right. Doesn't really alter my view on whether a D1 no lynch is inherently beneficial to the scum.
Use @player or quote when responding. Otherwise, you have to look for the post you're responding to.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 12:20:23 am
Quote
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
She did vote for you, but not in response to being voted for. I wouldn't rate that as OMGUS.
Also, didn't get the ninja'd alert when I posted that, so I didn't realize your post was now in the way, and it's pretty obvious to whom I am responding with that comment. There's only two of us talking about the game mechanics angle of the D1 lynch.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:20:49 am
Also, I just got back, and out of the four that replied so far, I only really find you scummy. My argument is basically that there should be no reason that you are attacking makeinu because you are doing what he is doing with much confidence.
PPE:
Make, I am a he.
Post by: Persus13 on December 06, 2013, 12:22:31 am
Superblackcat: Looking over your posts, you have not formed a single proper argument. The only person you've at all attacked is me, which could be considered OMGUS.Didn't SBC vote you first just now? So wouldn't it be you vote that was an OMGUS, Elephant?
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 12:23:48 am
PPE:
Make, I am a he.
*facepalms*
That's on your profile... *sigh* My apologies... I didn't look first... ::)
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:24:31 am
Persus, Thanks for pointing that out, I probably would not have realized that until tomorrow. :<
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:26:43 am
Elephant, there really hasn't been anything scummy said. The only thing slightly arguable was you and makeinu, and personally, I take makeinu's said instead of yours. From the last game, I basically did the same thing as he did due to the fact that the way mafia is played here is generally different from where I played it. You seemed to be purely attacking him, and didn't do much argument other than 'Makeinu's style of playing is bad-->thus scummy'.Again, a bad style of playing is either scummy or useless.
Quote
Also, I just got back, and out of the four that replied so far, I only really find you scummy. My argument is basically that there should be no reason that you are attacking makeinu because you are doing what he is doing with much confidence.Elaborate, please? I haven't been attacking makeinu nearly as much since he started posting more. I was originally attacking him because he was being an active lurker, so I don't see how my style was similar to his.
And now you both seem to be supporting each other. Might be a coincidence, but might also be scumminess.
Superblackcat: Looking over your posts, you have not formed a single proper argument. The only person you've at all attacked is me, which could be considered OMGUS.Didn't SBC vote you first just now? So wouldn't it be you vote that was an OMGUS, Elephant?
I honestly didn't even remember he voted for me. If I did remember, I probably wouldn't have voted.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 12:30:12 am
Puffer: I think that the accusations against MakeInU are easily nooby, and not worth killing over. It seems to me that Elephant wants someone dead, and he finds Make the easiest to get rid of. I'm sure it has been scummy, but all of it can be explained by pure nooby-ness, and I'm not up for lynching it (Unless something drastic happens) Until tomorrow, D2. (Where it should be more familiar with how this works).
So they're either scumtells or newbtells. Not really a BandWagon, then. What are you willing to lynch for on D1?
You do have a point though. I get too into the game due to the last environment I was in; it was pretty rocky conversational terrain.
MakeInu:
Camel caps is too much fun, hope it doesn't bother you :P Anyway. Do you honestly believe that a D1 no lynch is best for the town?
Either way, the town needs to lynch a mafia member on the second day.
PPE:
Persus: Would you rate MakeInu's tells as newbtells?
((Also people seriously if you can, QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE. It's the most helpful thing you can do to boost your argument through context. PLEASE QUOTE. PSA over.))
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:33:28 am
Elephant, there really hasn't been anything scummy said. The only thing slightly arguable was you and makeinu, and personally, I take makeinu's said instead of yours. From the last game, I basically did the same thing as he did due to the fact that the way mafia is played here is generally different from where I played it. You seemed to be purely attacking him, and didn't do much argument other than 'Makeinu's style of playing is bad-->thus scummy'.Again, a bad style of playing is either scummy or useless.QuoteAlso, I just got back, and out of the four that replied so far, I only really find you scummy. My argument is basically that there should be no reason that you are attacking makeinu because you are doing what he is doing with much confidence.Elaborate, please? I haven't been attacking makeinu nearly as much since he started posting more. I was originally attacking him because he was being an active lurker, so I don't see how my style was similar to his.
And now you both seem to be supporting each other. Might be a coincidence, but might also be scumminess.Superblackcat: Looking over your posts, you have not formed a single proper argument. The only person you've at all attacked is me, which could be considered OMGUS.Didn't SBC vote you first just now? So wouldn't it be you vote that was an OMGUS, Elephant?
I honestly didn't even remember he voted for me. If I did remember, I probably wouldn't have voted.
Elephant, you might as well start adding others to the group and make a 10 person mafia.
No, his style is not bad, yes it is different to what you are used to... Too bad. Frankly, I had this hardship when I did my previous mafia game, almost got lynched twice (or some number of times) because I played differently. I don't blame you for the bias.
What I do blame you for is that you seemed to attack him and continue to attack him based off of accusations. I started this as a pressure vote, I did not reply to whether that was a pressure vote to.... pressure you obviously.
Now I seemed to get a response that I am not too happy with.
_______
I have not figured out how to quote, my try last time failed miserably last game....
Puffer (If you want the post, it's the one above this one):
Elephant was indeed trying to start a bandwagon, using 'Day is ending' to fuel it. I am willing to lynch Elephant. He seems to be able to give us a lot of information, even if he isn't scum, just because of the amount of dueling going over him.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 12:36:03 am
Elephant was indeed trying to start a bandwagon, using 'Day is ending' to fuel it. I am willing to lynch Elephant. He seems to be able to give us a lot of information, even if he isn't scum, just because of the amount of dueling going over him.
Mm. You have a point with information for sure. I hate to sound swayed over such a small argument, but it's very concise and true.
Though I never heard EP use that phrase "Day ending"? Could you find that for me?
Post by: Tiruin on December 06, 2013, 12:37:00 am
Perses
Tiruin: Same with you. [I'd like hear more from you. What are your thoughts on the game so far?]*checks scumdar*
It's going haywire. I see a series of vague tells and null tells that I'm not running my suspicions on tells any further, but empirical evidence--examination of the essence of people's posts and utility of perspective.
Given the drastic shift in time (time of day compared to a normal BM), I myself am aghast at this prospect of decision, yet am partly glad that things are going...smoothly.
Interesting ladder.Now, Who are you considering to be your top three suspects?Ladder of Scumminess from greatest to least:
1. Elephant, makeinu
2. Puff
3. SBC, Tiruin, Luke
4. Me
Why am I near the least marker? Same goes to SBC?
LP
I'll savor this notion.
I find it amusing that, while you did note this error, you did not unvote.
Also, you've been particularly quiet, Luke_Prowler. What devious plans do you hide...
@Pufferfish: Do you fear being eliminated? By either town or mafia.
@Makeinu: lack of sleep and general whimsicalnessThis is not an excuse. Or a really bad decision without any thought or foresight.
What do you think about self-voting? My vote on Puffin was steadied by his words.
What ploy are you trying out here?
What...are you doing?
Woah, he's voting himself. You can do that?
Theoretically. But it's not a good idea especially if the excuse is related to Reality.
Puffin
Well if Makeinu's actions denote such, are you forwarding something focused on him or are you just calling out 'Hey Makeinu, you're lurking!'> The vote was part of an RVS as I considered you as an able player--one who could take down and rationalize anyone else in a clear format. The person lurking--given this game context--I discarded as someone either busy due to RL or timezones. In truth, I..didn't check the profiles for lurking (..I mean, lurking D1? >_> Nice work guys. This is a BM and then you do such things?)
Who is that one lurking--how or what did he do, and why do you think he is a prospective target?What I mean is why did you vote for the loud player who appeared to be wanting to get somewhere and not the lurker who was quietly shadowing the whole game?
That's a good enough answer. I was talking about Squill's lurking and now I am talking about MakeInu who has, recently, been actively lurking. He's a target as he's added little to no constructive comments, answers, or questions to the discussion. Which, funnily enough, is constructive in itself hee hee.
Reality can intervene between posts, yet a post as shallow as this without further questions (ie What are your reads on people? // 'Something to give insight to this person') denote someone doing an action just for the sake of doing it.
Why do you compare targets and their priority to others as if its a valid case to base on?
Elephant
Huh, didn't notice those. Unvote, since you're being more active now. I'm still keeping an eye on you, though.Tiruin taps you on your shoulder.
I'll start scumhunting again later tonight or tomorrow.
"Dude, listen. What you say is very open to misinterpretation. 'I'll start scumhunting...' really sounds like a subtle case of 'what I did before isn't scumhunting' instead of 'This will continue tonight or tomorrow'. Out here, we're all guilty unless proven innocent, kid.
"Also you really don't have to blue that note. The finger of suspicion is used to detail the name of the person. Any other way...lessens its meaning."
Given this speed of time and decision, I'd like to hear--even in brief--what you think of quite everyone here. A short sentence or two detailing how you see them and why would be enough, but I'd like to know more about what you think.
Superblackcat
Are we not allowed to.... Extend?We only have one extend as said by Persus. One. Throughout the whole game. :)
if so.
Elephant Parade.
You seem to be doing very well trying to lead a BW.
You vote him and say that he's doing...'very well'? What did you see in him there? How is it a bandwagon? If this has been replied to before, please link--however if there's anything missing, please answer.
Just another thing I forgot to tack on their.... How exactly does notify work. It's not working for me....Eh? Do you mean the Notify button near the forum reply thing? It sends an email to your email address whenever a reply has been made. I sincerely advise you to NOT KEEP NOTIFIED unless you want spam..heh. Spam.
What you want is the "Show new replies to your posts." near the upper left of the forum. It shows the threads you've posted in and when they're updated by another post.
Which is what I believe you want.
Everyone:
Dusk approaches. May I require a summary of your cases against the person you're voting and their reasons why?
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:41:23 am
Quote
Quote
No, his style is not bad, yes it is different to what you are used to... Too bad. Frankly, I had this hardship when I did my previous mafia game, almost got lynched twice (or some number of times) because I played differently. I don't blame you for the bias.Yes, yes it is bad. Or, well, it was. Now, he's okay-ish.
Quote
What I do blame you for is that you seemed to attack him and continue to attack him based off of accusations. I started this as a pressure vote, I did not reply to whether that was a pressure vote to.... pressure you obviously.You keep attacking people until they let something slip or you run out of information.
Quote
I have not figured out how to quote, my try last time failed miserably last game.......you use the quote button? Are you on a phone, by any chance?
Code: (How to quote using BBCode) [Select]
[quote=quoted name (optional)]Quoted text.[/quote]Quote
Elephant was indeed trying to start a bandwagon, using 'Day is ending' to fuel it. I am willing to lynch Elephant. He seems to be able to give us a lot of information, even if he isn't scum, just because of the amount of dueling going over him.What? What are you talking about?
I wasn't trying to start a bandwagon, really. Well, kind of. I was saying that assuming he didn't start posting, he was probably the best person to lynch.How successful do you think that has been? Do you think anyone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch?
Inconsistencies, no, not yet.
FoS @ ElephantParade (is that what the dark blue is used for here?). He seems overly eager to point fingers at others and accuse them of not scum-hunting. That could be a product of many things, but of all so far, he seems most suspicious to me.
@Luke: funny, but dangerous.
Have I accused anybody other than you of not scumhunting? Remember, this is RVS. The entire point is to accuse random people.
You, on the other hand, are either useless town or scum. Unvote, vote makeinu. I may unvote you if you begin actually doing stuff.
If we can't find anybody more suspicious, I say we lynch him. A mislynch is bad, but he's not doing much.
PPE: Double ninja'd!
Elephant was indeed trying to start a bandwagon, using 'Day is ending' to fuel it. I am willing to lynch Elephant. He seems to be able to give us a lot of information, even if he isn't scum, just because of the amount of dueling going over him.
Mm. You have a point with information for sure. I hate to sound swayed over such a small argument, but it's very concise and true.
Though I never heard EP use that phrase "Day ending"? Could you find that for me?
See above.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:42:06 am
Quote
Elephant, you might as well start adding others to the group and make a 10 person mafia.???
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 12:44:31 am
You do have a point though. I get too into the game due to the last environment I was in; it was pretty rocky conversational terrain.
Lord, I've been in those. They can make you start to suspect yourself.
Quote
MakeInu:
Camel caps is too much fun, hope it doesn't bother you :P Anyway. Do you honestly believe that a D1 no lynch is best for the town?
Either way, the town needs to lynch a mafia member on the second day.
That's not what I'm saying. A D1 no lynch carries a lot of risk for the town, but it's not an automatic benefit to the scum either.
A D1 mis-lynch is bad for the town and good for the scum. How bad for the town depends on the flip.
And you're right, in a small game like this, the D2 lynch has to be right to avoid MyLo.
CamelCase is fine, it just amuses me because you've caught naturally the break in the compound word that is my name.
Quote
((Also people seriously if you can, QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE. It's the most helpful thing you can do to boost your argument through context. PLEASE QUOTE. PSA over.))
Not always easy from all devices, but if that's the case, PFP. <-- semi-ninja'd
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:45:27 am
Tiruin:
I think the same link that will answer Puffer's question will answer yours...
PPE:
Elephant: For your second quote.... Isn't that what I am supposed to do? I take what they say, throw it at them, if more info comes out, use that, throw it at them, repeat... You seem to be dropping a lot of things that I can through at you...
(Best metaphor ever).
PPEE:
third quote for above^
First quote: It was a joke. I was saying that if you are going to start grouping people together, might as well start grouping everyone. Grouping really isn't evidence until later on, when you look back with more information.
PPEE:
LET ME POST. STOP IT! SERIOUSLY! Makeinu (Just Kidding btw:P)
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:49:45 am
Puffer: I'm sorry I didn't answer your question, but my bombardment of posts should be enough right? :P
MakeInU: After this reread, I am very disappointed in your OMGUS. (For realz this time though)
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 12:52:24 am
Quote
Elephant: For your second quote.... Isn't that what I am supposed to do? I take what they say, throw it at them, if more info comes out, use that, throw it at them, repeat... You seem to be dropping a lot of things that I can through at you...
...What? That is... exactly what I said? As for trying to argue against your accusations, no duh.
Quote
LET ME POST. STOP IT! SERIOUSLY! Makeinu (Just Kidding btw:P)Have you tried to scumhunt makeinu AT ALL? Doesn't seem like it, which is odd, especially since we're the top three posters. I've tried to bring arguments against active people, and possibly everyone, though I may have missed some people.
Ninja'd.
Quote
MakeInU: After this reread, I am very disappointed in your OMGUS. (For realz this time though)
OH COME ON.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 12:58:27 am
QuoteMakeInU: After this reread, I am very disappointed in your OMGUS. (For realz this time though)
OH COME ON.
Uhh... What? Seems like you figured out your second quote, I think it's a "Yes I have". Frankly, you are much more scummy than he is.
@Superblackcat: Your slightly broken grammar combined with lack of quotes is starting to make your posts a bit confusing. PLEASE use quotes, even if they only contain a part of the question asked.QuoteElephant: For your second quote.... Isn't that what I am supposed to do? I take what they say, throw it at them, if more info comes out, use that, throw it at them, repeat... You seem to be dropping a lot of things that I can through at you...
...What? That is... exactly what I said? As for trying to argue against your accusations, no duh.
Quote
QuoteI may have misunderstood this, but are you telling me I should be attacking people until they let something slip/run out of info, or should I not. I understood it as I should not, and I was very confused as that is exactly what I should be doing.
What I do blame you for is that you seemed to attack him and continue to attack him based off of accusations. I started this as a pressure vote, I did not reply to whether that was a pressure vote to.... pressure you obviously.
You keep attacking people until they let something slip or you run out of information.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 01:04:16 am
Quote
Uhh... What? Seems like you figured out your second quote, I think it's a "Yes I have". Frankly, you are much more scummy than he is.
At the time of typing up the thing about pressuring makeinu, you hadn't posted that. That was the reason for
Quote from: this,
OH COME ON.
as I was frustrated at wasting effort.
Quote
I may have misunderstood this, but are you telling me I should be attacking people until they let something slip/run out of info, or should I not. I understood it as I should not, and I was very confused as that is exactly what I should be doing.
You should be attacking people until you run out of info or time.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 01:18:21 am
Thanks :D
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 01:25:01 am
Wow. That was a lot of words. Not a lot of progress in those words. The bandwagon call was decried false. Can you tell me what other reasons you have voting for Elephant Parade?
Tiruin:
Puffin
Well if Makeinu's actions denote such, are you forwarding something focused on him or are you just calling out 'Hey Makeinu, you're lurking!'
Reality can intervene between posts, yet a post as shallow as this without further questions (ie What are your reads on people? // 'Something to give insight to this person') denote someone doing an action just for the sake of doing it.
Why do you compare targets and their priority to others as if its a valid case to base on?
This whole game is about prioritizing, isn't it? Who is the scummiest? Who is the most town? What can I do to separate them into, as much as possible, two groups? Then once you have a #1 scum pick, aren't you supposed to go after them, check your theories?
Right now, I will admit it is day 1. The only ones who know anything are the 2 mafioso. Not even the MachoCop(tm) knows anything. Five of us are in the dark while two people work in tandem to bring the group as a whole down.
My assurance on MakeInu is unstable, but it's the best I have to go from, from here.
Quote
Everyone:
Dusk approaches. May I require a summary of your cases against the person you're voting and their reasons why?
MakeInu started out very quiet, with very few questions before becoming quiet until drawn out by questioning. After being drawn out, only responded to the questioners, kind of aggressively, and has still asked few questions of those around him.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 01:32:33 am
Currently, it is his responses to my questions.
Also, don't be too hard on Makeinu, I was worse my first game in this environment.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 01:34:14 am
Puffer:
Currently, it is his responses to my questions.
Also, don't be too hard on Makeinu, I was worse my first game in this environment.
You keep defending Makeinu. Poor scumbuddies, perhaps?
Also, be more specific. What is it about my responses, exactly?
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 01:38:49 am
Everyone:
Dusk approaches. May I require a summary of your cases against the person you're voting and their reasons why?
Quote
Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.
Elephant Parade has engaged in constant haranguing about not scum-hunting enough, directed at numerous players here, but it (the haranguing) is inconsistent in it's application. At one moment, it's just "posting enough", at another it's arguments about how substantive the posts are.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 01:40:00 am
Everyone:
Dusk approaches. May I require a summary of your cases against the person you're voting and their reasons why?QuoteTrying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum.
Elephant Parade has engaged in constant haranguing about not scum-hunting enough, directed at numerous players here, but it (the haranguing) is inconsistent in it's application. At one moment, it's just "posting enough", at another it's arguments about how substantive the posts are.
Both of those things are important.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 01:40:55 am
This is why I find buddying calls are of no use until later in the game. I believe it is not good to vote him, and it's suddenly buddying scum mafia.
This post: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4814874#msg4814874 (And one after for clarification of really bad grammar).
Also, please answer my question starting from here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4814818#msg4814818
(the second one). There are about 3 questions in posts after that directed to you that you ignored.
Post by: Tiruin on December 06, 2013, 01:58:33 am
Everyone: Summarize your cases against the ones you voted and preferably give the reasons why. The post-on-post dueling on trivial parts; nitpicking each others eyes out and other related immateria should be condensed into one point.
PFP
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 02:02:15 am
My vote for you sticks because I believe to you be the most scum. You don't have to convince me you aren't scum. Please convince me someone else is more scum.
SBC:
Please, I need more information than just:
Currently, it is his responses to my questions.
What about his responses are scummy? Also, can I ask why you're having so much trouble quoting? Is it just the platform you're on? This is an honest inquiry.
EP:
To be honest, SBC has a point about the info-lynch. But I want to lynch for scum, not for info.
But that buddying talk is nonsense. Usually when when one is actively buddying, it's scum-to-town to shade the town. And that's if it's active. It looked like I was buddying with you against MakeInu, when in reality we simply had formed the same case. Buddying doesn't mean a think, SBC's correct. How does your perception of buddying currently affect your train of thought?
Repost for Tiruin:
Tiruin:Puffin
Well if Makeinu's actions denote such, are you forwarding something focused on him or are you just calling out 'Hey Makeinu, you're lurking!'
Reality can intervene between posts, yet a post as shallow as this without further questions (ie What are your reads on people? // 'Something to give insight to this person') denote someone doing an action just for the sake of doing it.
Why do you compare targets and their priority to others as if its a valid case to base on?
This whole game is about prioritizing, isn't it? Who is the scummiest? Who is the most town? What can I do to separate them into, as much as possible, two groups? Then once you have a #1 scum pick, aren't you supposed to go after them, check your theories?
Right now, I will admit it is day 1. The only ones who know anything are the 2 mafioso. Not even the MachoCop(tm) knows anything. Five of us are in the dark while two people work in tandem to bring the group as a whole down.
My assurance on MakeInu is unstable, but it's the best I have to go from, from here.QuoteEveryone:
Dusk approaches. May I require a summary of your cases against the person you're voting and their reasons why?
MakeInu started out very quiet, with very few questions before becoming quiet until drawn out by questioning. After being drawn out, only responded to the questioners, kind of aggressively, and has still asked few questions of those around him.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 02:07:07 am
I am going to make this post short and concise in case all of you miss it, again.
Everyone: Summarize your cases against the ones you voted and preferably give the reasons why. The post-on-post dueling on trivial parts; nitpicking each others eyes out and other related immateria should be condensed into one point.
PFP
@Pufferfish: If my reason for voting for Elephant Parade (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815067#msg4815067) isn't enough to sway you that he's more scum, then I've got nothing else.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 02:07:33 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 02:10:41 am
Quote
Everyone: Summarize your cases against the ones you voted and preferably give the reasons why. The post-on-post dueling on trivial parts; nitpicking each others eyes out and other related immateria should be condensed into one point.SBC: He's using vague logic and tag-teaming me with makeinu. He's also not really attacking other people much, so no big loss if he flips town.
Quote
How does your perception of buddying currently affect your train of thought?Not a whole lot, actually. If one of them turns out to be scum, then I'll assume the other to be scum.
Changing vote to makeinu, as he's my secondary suspect and I suspect won't have time to post before the end of the day. I really, really don't want this to be a tie. I'd rather be lynched myself.
Yes, this is kind of bandwagoning. I don't really have much else in the way of options, I'm afraid. However, we need to bug Luke.
I am going to make this post short and concise in case all of you miss it, again.
Everyone: Summarize your cases against the ones you voted and preferably give the reasons why. The post-on-post dueling on trivial parts; nitpicking each others eyes out and other related immateria should be condensed into one point.
PFP
@Pufferfish: If my reason for voting for Elephant Parade (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815067#msg4815067) isn't enough to sway you that he's more scum, then I've got nothing else.
Vague and unhelpful. You're not contributing much of anything.
I gave a link Puffer. I've really got nothing more, but at the same time, it's the most I've got for anyone.
See, now people have to go and find what you're talking about.
Oh, wait. I do have an alternative. Extend.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 02:12:15 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 02:13:28 am
UnExtend, not willing to use it so early
We need more information! Luke hasn't posted much at all, I won't be able to do anything until after the day ends, and most people are probably about to go to bed. Tell me, when are you planning to use this extension?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 02:20:42 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 02:22:58 am
Probably tomorrow on Lylo
Why? Give people more information with your answers. Your vagueness is frustrating.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 02:23:12 am
unvote.
MakeInu, you have been making more posts. More than Luke.
I should have noticed before, heh. I got too caught up in "You are lurking, explain your self. Now explain yourself more". Which is, while not wrong, not how I was trying to play.
But I do have a question. Imp played the same way as EP did last game, though EP is much, much, MUCH less verbiose than she ever was. She called people out on not scum-hunting the whole game and questioning them about it.
Is that "trying too hard to appear towny?", even though she was town?
Luke: You've made seven posts. Seven. Half of those weren't even close to useful. Consider this vote a vote of no confidence. What do you make of this situation we are currently in?
PPE:
In case this prevents the extend, Shorten.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 02:29:11 am
So un-extend, I guess.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 02:36:11 am
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 02:43:50 am
How much time left? It's 3PM forum time or GMT?
GMT.
I'm willing to move my vote to Luke, given his inactivity level. I'm still not convinced that I'm not voting correctly already.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 02:51:45 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
On an unrelated note, I'm somewhat suspicious of Tiruin. She hasn't been lurking, but she's been posting sparingly and not really targeting anybody, like she's trying to stay out of the spotlight. Hmm...
Anyway, unvote, vote Superblackcat.
How much time left? It's 3PM forum time or GMT?
GMT.
How much time left? It's 3PM forum time or GMT?
GMT.
I'm willing to move my vote to Luke, given his inactivity level. I'm still not convinced that I'm not voting correctly already.
Use red.
Code: (red) [Select]
[color=red]vote[/red]And now you're bandwagoning and going after the easy lynch, eh?
I might be able to get on in the morning.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 03:56:45 am
If we ML, tomorrow is Lylo.
If not, well... Yay!
Let me find those questions..
Who's play style do you like the most?
Elephant, but what about the extra day when you NL? ( I do not agree or disagree, it depends on the situation).
Which post of yours do you think is the most beneficial to town and this discussion?
I found 3...
GG
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 03:57:26 am
vote Makeinu
That vote confirmed the deal.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 03:59:01 am
Also, Don't just go and kill Luke, He may just be sleeping. yknow, not everyone wakes up when We start spamming 4 pages.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 04:01:27 am
Use red.
And now you're bandwagoning and going after the easy lynch, eh?
I might be able to get on in the morning.
Actually, I was hoping to open some discussion around voting Luke for lurking, not get a lesson on bbcodes for color, bay12 mafia voting protocols, or an accusation of band-wagoning on a vote you seem all too eager to start.
Day ends in ~6 hours at the time of this post. I can't be arsed to count up the votes at this point, I'm up too late already, but I will be checking in before the day ends. If you're willing to have a discussion in that brief interval that doesn't seemingly revolve around "I'm more townie than you are", Elephant Parade, great, so am I.
@Luke, un-lurking and posting something even remotely substantive, ideally answering some questions addressed at you in an intelligible manner, would be well advised and welcomed.
PPE: Really, SBC? Can't make up your mind much? Talk about band-wagoning.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 04:19:31 am
After all, a dead limb only helps infections kill the tree, no?
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 04:27:21 am
If the latter, these counts are wrong, and Luke has the lead, as Persus voted for him in one post, but I didn't count it as there hadn't been an unvote previous. Of course, I'm assuming a self-vote is a valid mechanic as well.
Quote
Vote Count
------------------------
Elephant Parade (2) - Persus13, makeinu
Luke_Prowler (2) - Luke_Prowler, Pufferfish
makeinu (1)- Superblackcat
Persus13 (0) -
Pufferfish (1) - Tiruin
Superblackcat (1)- Elephant Parade
Tiruin (0)-
Not voting: no one.
I will consider changing my vote in the morning, pending further enlightenment.
PPE: I can't argue with that point, Pufferfish. He's not only been singularly uncommunicative, but even the few posts he's made have really said nothing.
Post by: notquitethere on December 06, 2013, 04:35:02 am
Vote Count
------------------------
Elephant Parade (2) - Makeinu, Persus 13
Luke_Prowler (3) - Luke Prowler, Tiruin, Pufferfish
makeinu (1) - Superblackcat
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -
Superblackcat (1) - Elephant Parade
Tiruin -
Not Voting -
Day ends Friday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 5.5 hours.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 09:23:31 am
>:(
I cannot, can NOT take the chance that I'm wrong, I don't think I am, but I don't like what that vote board shows me.
Luke_Prowler, I know you're lurking out there, prowling the boards.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 06, 2013, 09:33:45 am
Unvote, before I kill myself
Post by: notquitethere on December 06, 2013, 10:16:17 am
------------------------
Elephant Parade (1) -Persus 13
Luke_Prowler (2) - Tiruin, Pufferfish
makeinu (1) - Superblackcat
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -
Superblackcat (1) - Elephant Parade
Tiruin -
Not Voting - makeinu, Luke Prowler
The suns finally lit up the horizon, the cloaked figures casting long shadows as they shoved one another beneath the skull of the impossibull. Finally, Untangler Luke Prowler pulled himself away from the others, stepping dangerously close to where the blood dripped from weatherworn molars. Taking the opportunity, two of the others bundled towards him, shoving him out into the rain. All watched, rapt.
Kneeling down in the mud, the Untangler fervently focused on his own image, trying to untangle the weaves of the blood drops from his own. But it the skies were filled with red fury and Luke Prowler was quickly drenched.
Before dissolving he cried, "I could have saved you!"
Luke_Prowler has been lynched. He was the town doctor.
The blood rain continued that night. Luke Prowler must not have been one of the heretics. Most slept uneasily, huddled in skull nooks. Some crept and slithered and in the morning there was one less theocrat. They never found the body of Ranger Elephant Parade, the expedition leader, just his bags and a still-warm sleeping roll and a pair of smouldering boots in the unabated rain.
Elephant Parade has been night killed. He was town.
DAY 2 THE SMOULDERING BOOTS
The suns rose and it was time for choosing.
Vote Count
------------------------
makeinu -
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -
Superblackcat -
Tiruin -
Not Voting - makeinu, Persus13, Pufferfish, Superblackcat, Tiruin
Day ends Sunday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 48 hours.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 10:27:45 am
I completely misread everything there.
Vote makeinu.
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 06, 2013, 10:37:49 am
Feth you all
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 06, 2013, 11:02:26 am
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 04:31:28 pm
MakeInu:
Why in Armok's name are you voting yourself? That's not really helpful at all. We now know EP was innocent, and his posts hold great amounts of information for us.
Persus:
With this turn of events, how does this affect your scumlist?
SBC:
Call it funny, call it WIFOM, but you were already voting EP along with Persus. The NightKill leaves a lot of wine about, but you've been seeming pretty scummy to me regardless.
You been dodging questions and not properly quoting posts, and even dodging questions about why you can't quote.
Why are you deflecting questions directed at you, and why can't you reliably quote posts?
Post by: Persus13 on December 06, 2013, 05:00:14 pm
Well.Why on earth are you voting yourself, especially since you lambasted Luke for the same thing and he got lynched? Also, if you wanted Luke lynched why did you unvote elephant but not do anything else? That screams of scumminess to me as it looks like you tried to distance yourself from the lynch but still caused it to happen. That's suspicious to me, Makeinu
I completely misread everything there.
Vote makeinu.
So uh, oops. We killed our doctor.Yeah, nice job.
Persus:
With this turn of events, how does this affect your scumlist?
Well, the three who lynched Luke are at the top: You, Makeinu, and Tiruin went to the top. SBC seems scummy too, but not very much.
Call it funny, call it WIFOM, but you were already voting EP along with Persus. The NightKill leaves a lot of wine about, but you've been seeming pretty scummy to me regardless.First of, scum tend not to kill someone they're scumhunting. Secondly, SBC switched to makeinu towards the end of the day. SO why are you attacking him for voting Elephant, when Elephant wasn't even lynched?
Pufferfish: Did you have any case against Luke besides a general Lynch lurkers policy? Why did you go from
MakeInu:to
My vote for you sticks because I believe to you be the most scum. You don't have to convince me you aren't scum. Please convince me someone else is more scum.
unvote.in 20 minutes. Why were you so determined to prevent an extend in the exact same post as your third vote bandwagon of Luke?
MakeInu, you have been making more posts. More than Luke.
Tiruin: Why no follow up to this?
I am going to make this post short and concise in case all of you miss it, again.It was what, 11 PM when Day ended for you?
Everyone: Summarize your cases against the ones you voted and preferably give the reasons why. The post-on-post dueling on trivial parts; nitpicking each others eyes out and other related immateria should be condensed into one point.
PFP
You were all lurking or semi-lurking at the time I wrote that. I felt Elephant was looking for someone to lynch, and makeinu had a scummy playstyle. Puff was going after easy targets. You were pretty much null, and so was SBC.Interesting ladder.Now, Who are you considering to be your top three suspects?Ladder of Scumminess from greatest to least:
1. Elephant, makeinu
2. Puff
3. SBC, Tiruin, Luke
4. Me
Why am I near the least marker? Same goes to SBC?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 05:51:51 pm
So what if I was voting EP, I pushed it to the farthest I could... : Pressure: Then I unvoted him, and voted makeinu, because at that time, he seemed the most scummy. You are attacking me for pressuring? Please.
I have not really deflected questions. I'll come out and say it, A lot of my arguments against Elephant Parade were part of some misunderstanding, but when I read it, I gut feelinged to EP, so I pressured him. I stopped having that feeling, so I unvoted, and voted Makeinu, because he seemed more scummy.
If I did actually miss a question, please link it or something.
FOS Puffer for pushing a vote on a fake lurker... and not being the first to vote him, thus trying to avoid detection.
Post by: makeinu on December 06, 2013, 06:00:24 pm
Why on earth are you voting yourself, especially since you lambasted Luke for the same thing and he got lynched? Also, if you wanted Luke lynched why did you unvote elephant but not do anything else? That screams of scumminess to me as it looks like you tried to distance yourself from the lynch but still caused it to happen. That's suspicious to me, Makeinu
It's a placeholder vote to remind myself how much I just screwed up.
When the vote board got updated, and I saw the upcoming end of night totals, and saw that Elephant Parade and Luke_Prowler were tied except for Luke's self-vote, i had a minor panic moment. I worried that I was wrong all along, that EP wasn't scum, merely scummy in my eyes, and that maybe, just maybe, Luke's lurking was something more dangerous. And I thought, what happens if I am wrong?
So the vote board in that light was ripe for Luke, if he were scum, to jump on and change his vote from self- to EP. And he was online and reading the thread. I watched the view count climbing. And to prevent what I thought could possibly be a free lynch by a lurking scum that we hadn't caught onto, I pulled my vote from EP and asked Luke to explain himself, hoping that he'd give me anything to work with in those last moments, because aside from this:
He's got nine hours but seven posts isn't nearly enough given the few days he's had to post and contribute. I consider it pruning.
After all, a dead limb only helps infections kill the tree, no?
I saw no reason to actually vote for him. And I had a smidgen of doubt in my own judgement that EP was scum.
Unfortunately, that was 37 minutes before day's end, and then it all went south.
So, yeah, we lynched the doctor. That's bad. And if I could, I'd ask Luke, again, WHAT WERE YOU DOING? What were you thinking being silent for so long? In a game where lurking is a mortal sin, and a classic scum-tell, the TOWN DOCTOR lurks all of Day 1, making himself a perfect candidate for a PL? How smart is that? But I can't ask him, not until this is over.
Does that excuse anything? I don't know. I do know that we're MyLo now.
SBC, you jumped around a lot yesterday, toward the end there, and provided little to nothing of substance to back anything up. At one point, you were attacking EP for attacking me, and then you turned around and put your vote on me to:
unvote
vote Makeinu
That vote confirmed the deal.
What vote? What deal?
Given your immediately previous post, only a few minutes earlier and with nothing in between, I find that very suspicious:
I'm still voting Elephant parade, there is no point in voting Luke, as he isn't scummy, he's just... dead.
If we ML, tomorrow is Lylo.
If not, well... Yay!
Let me find those questions..
Who's play style do you like the most?
Elephant, but what about the extra day when you NL? ( I do not agree or disagree, it depends on the situation).
Which post of yours do you think is the most beneficial to town and this discussion?
I found 3...
GG
PPE: your post allays some of the above concerns, but I still want an answer to those questions.
Pufferfish: I still find you suspect as well, though clearly I was wrong about who the scum team is.
unvote.
MakeInu, you have been making more posts. More than Luke.
Luke: You've made seven posts. Seven. Half of those weren't even close to useful. Consider this vote a vote of no confidence. What do you make of this situation we are currently in?
PPE:
In case this prevents the extend, Shorten.
Same question Persus has for you: Why WERE you so determined to prevent an extend in the exact same post as your third vote bandwagon of Luke?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 06:46:55 pm
How much time left? It's 3PM forum time or GMT?
GMT.
I'm willing to move my vote to Luke, given his inactivity level. I'm still not convinced that I'm not voting correctly already.
That. The deal of me voting you.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 06, 2013, 07:28:07 pm
Persus:
So uh, oops. We killed our doctor.Yeah, nice job.
Hey, it's not like I was aware I was lynching the doctor. I believed that I was removing dead weight from the game.
Quote
Persus:
With this turn of events, how does this affect your scumlist?
Well, the three who lynched Luke are at the top: You, Makeinu, and Tiruin went to the top. SBC seems scummy too, but not very much.Call it funny, call it WIFOM, but you were already voting EP along with Persus. The NightKill leaves a lot of wine about, but you've been seeming pretty scummy to me regardless.First of, scum tend not to kill someone they're scumhunting. Secondly, SBC switched to makeinu towards the end of the day. SO why are you attacking him for voting Elephant, when Elephant wasn't even lynched?
You know what, I missed the final vote in the day-shift. I was going off of the final call and I relies how asinine that was. unvote, but I still have my suspicions of SBC.
Quote
Pufferfish: Did you have any case against Luke besides a general Lynch lurkers policy? Why did you go fromMakeInu:to
My vote for you sticks because I believe to you be the most scum. You don't have to convince me you aren't scum. Please convince me someone else is more scum.unvote.in 20 minutes. Why were you so determined to prevent an extend in the exact same post as your third vote bandwagon of Luke?
MakeInu, you have been making more posts. More than Luke.
The prevention was because I believed Luke was going to sit there and be nothing but a warm body the whole game, and I do not want to waste the extend on the first day of the game where a good number of players are still posting and debating. The bandwagon was not so, as I had stated my cause for the switch of vote. That being, he had posted seven posts in seven days at the time of my vote, of which maybe 4 had anything even possibly useful.
Quote
You were all lurking or semi-lurking at the time I wrote that. I felt Elephant was looking for someone to lynch, and makeinu had a scummy playstyle. Puff was going after easy targets. You were pretty much null, and so was SBC.
Easy targets? Sure, if you consider lurkers easy targets. I consider them trouble.
Why haven't you actively tried to get a read on your null players?
Makeinu:
Quote
Same question Persus has for you: Why WERE you so determined to prevent an extend in the exact same post as your third vote bandwagon of Luke?
Quote
The prevention was because I believed Luke was going to sit there and be nothing but a warm body the whole game, and I do not want to waste the extend on the first day of the game where a good number of players are still posting and debating.
You were suspicious of me buddying with Elephant Parade. I see you're still suspicious of me. Who do you think my partner is, seeing you still have your finger on me? Do you believe my partner to be SBC?
I screamed at you guys not to lynch Luke, I really did. None of you listened. Did we get any information from lynching Luke? Nope.
No, we got some. Because he wasn't scum, what information there is in his posts points to him actually trying maybe to find scum.
Same thing with EP. He was actually trying to scumhunt with his posts.
Quote
FOS Puffer for pushing a vote on a fake lurker... and not being the first to vote him, thus trying to avoid detection.
on a 'fake' lurker. So because he wasn't scum he wasn't actually lurking? Can you define lurking for me?
And you still haven't answered why you cannot quote posts. Seriously. Is it a computer problem? I'm considering it a scumtell, not to quote posts.
PFP. I'll definitely be back later tonight.
Post by: Persus13 on December 06, 2013, 09:51:13 pm
Of course you weren't aware. But if we lynch wrong today, we don't have the chance to survive to D3. This is lylo, with no other options.So uh, oops. We killed our doctor.Yeah, nice job.
Hey, it's not like I was aware I was lynching the doctor. I believed that I was removing dead weight from the game.
You know what, I missed the final vote in the day-shift. I was going off of the final call and I relies how asinine that was. unvote, but I still have my suspicions of SBC.How? It was in the day end/day start post? But that's understandable, I've made dumber mistakes before.
The prevention was because I believed Luke was going to sit there and be nothing but a warm body the whole game, and I do not want to waste the extend on the first day of the game where a good number of players are still posting and debating. The bandwagon was not so, as I had stated my cause for the switch of vote.So you policy lynched on a lurker. and "Waste an extend?" D1 is one of the best days to extend precisely because people are still voting and debating. Just cause you wanted Luke lynched quickly while the debate was still ongoing doesn't mean its good for town. You could have given him one day and a last chance. That's seriously scummy to me and I think you could have been scum trying to rush a lynch.
That being, he had posted seven posts in seven days at the time of my vote, of which maybe 4 had anything even possibly useful.Huh?
I tend to disagree. Last BM was one of the worst cases of lurkers I've ever seen. Most game have at most 2. Lurkers are more of a long term thing than a one day thing. People have RL stuff that can get it the way. People need sleep, to go to school, and work. For the most part you can get lurkers to get back in. You can try and talk to them and prod them with a vote. But lynching them is a little too far. I'd say most lurkers are town trying to juggle too much. So I prefer to go after people who are being scummy.QuoteYou were all lurking or semi-lurking at the time I wrote that. I felt Elephant was looking for someone to lynch, and makeinu had a scummy playstyle. Puff was going after easy targets. You were pretty much null, and so was SBC.
Easy targets? Sure, if you consider lurkers easy targets. I consider them trouble.
Why haven't you actively tried to get a read on your null players?What do you mean? I don't try to lynch lurkers, I prod them. Like this:
Luke_Prowler: I'd like hear more from you. What are your thoughts on the game so far?And this:
Tiruin: Same with you.
Day ends soon and I don't want to waste it.
Quote
Tiruin: I haven't heard anything from you today, what are your thoughts on the game so far?
And you still haven't answered why you cannot quote posts. Seriously. Is it a computer problem? I'm considering it a scumtell, not to quote posts.Seriously, why are you attacking him for not being able to quote posts? Have you seen a post by him where he can do it fine?
Tiruin: I haven't heard anything from you today, what are your thoughts on Luke and Elephant dying and roleflips?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 02:48:39 am
Quote
Quote from: Superblackcat on December 06, 2013, 05:51:51 pm
I screamed at you guys not to lynch Luke, I really did. None of you listened. Did we get any information from lynching Luke? Nope.
No, we got some. Because he wasn't scum, what information there is in his posts points to him actually trying maybe to find scum.
Same thing with EP. He was actually trying to scumhunt with his posts.
Quote
FOS Puffer for pushing a vote on a fake lurker... and not being the first to vote him, thus trying to avoid detection.
on a 'fake' lurker. So because he wasn't scum he wasn't actually lurking? Can you define lurking for me?
And you still haven't answered why you cannot quote posts. Seriously. Is it a computer problem? I'm considering it a scumtell, not to quote posts.
PFP. I'll definitely be back later tonight.
What you don't seem to understand, that because this is a fast game... lurking attacks don't work that well... Some people may be busy for 1 day. and then go to sleep and forget to check forums... Guess what they get? Lynched. That's not lurking, that's just not being able to be here. Not their fault (kinda actually) And totally not something they should get lynched for. INstead, you guys went for the easy lurker lynch. WITH NO INFORMATION. HE SAID ABOUT NOTHING. HE KNEW ABOUT NOTHING. HE READ BASICALLY NOTHING, RIGHT UP TO WHERE HE DIED, When he replied, to unvote himself.
Puffer, you saying this kill give you info... makes me very doubt you.
(Fake Lurker, because he wasn't really lurking, probably just busy).
MakeInU:
UNVOTE.
>:(
I cannot, can NOT take the chance that I'm wrong, I don't think I am, but I don't like what that vote board shows me.
Luke_Prowler, I know you're lurking out there, prowling the boards.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Uhhhhhhh..... WTF? He was probably asleep or something. "Chance that you are wrong?" IT was a probably... 90% chance you were wrong. No mafia stays Silent that long if they are here... especially with so much pressure. (No town either, but mafia tend to check the game more).
You have 0 evidence against him. Nil. And you write. "Chance that you are wrong"? That makes no sense to me.
Trying to quote more :P
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 02:52:33 am
Cop, if towards the end of today, we are seem to be lynching someone that you got an innocent on/ not lynching a guilty, please tell us..
It's important that we get past today.
Post by: makeinu on December 07, 2013, 04:20:27 am
MakeInU:UNVOTE.
>:(
I cannot, can NOT take the chance that I'm wrong, I don't think I am, but I don't like what that vote board shows me.
Luke_Prowler, I know you're lurking out there, prowling the boards.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
Uhhhhhhh..... WTF? He was probably asleep or something. "Chance that you are wrong?" IT was a probably... 90% chance you were wrong. No mafia stays Silent that long if they are here... especially with so much pressure. (No town either, but mafia tend to check the game more).
You have 0 evidence against him. Nil. And you write. "Chance that you are wrong"? That makes no sense to me.
You clearly skipped over this part where I explained my reasoning, specifically that my concerns were that I might be wrong about EP, not Luke. Also, re-read the part I've bolded, and then go read my argument again!! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4816497#msg4816497) He was not asleep at that time, he was reading the thread and active on the forums, at that late hour, and didn't even stop to mount an eleventh-hour defense in time to so much as say a damn thing.
I did not vote for Luke. I stated that I might consider voting for Luke as a lurker, given more evidence that it might be a good idea.
And then the above reasoning, which you apparently didn't read, or chose to ignore. Is it more convenient to your argument to assume facts not in evidence rather than respond to what's being communicated?
And even had I left my vote in place, Luke was on the chopping block, even after removing his self-vote. At that point, two were tied at two votes each. Now, I don't know how bay12 mafia games deal with a situation like that, but where I come from, it's a coin flip. And since Luke and I were the only ones online, and he didn't apparently have the time to prepare a defense post, that's 50/50 he was lynched anyway. And then there's the night kill...
And now you're pushing the cop to role-claim? Thus ensuring that he gets killed tonight by you and your scum buddy, no doubt.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 07, 2013, 04:23:32 am
I'm working a solo shift tomorrow at my work so I'll be able to make a post I'm now wanting to, er, post.
Post by: lordnincompoop on December 07, 2013, 05:35:06 am
Heads up guys, it's officially the weekend. So, at least, in the other BM game, the weekend is optional-play time and the countdown clock is effectively paused. At least I hope so :P
I'm working a solo shift tomorrow at my work so I'll be able to make a post I'm now wanting to, er, post.
No such thing as "optional play-time" in a Sprint game.
In the (not at all long) set of rules, it's written under the "Day Length" heading that game-Days will always include weekends. Remember that this is supposed to last 7 days, and since it's only 7 days, you're expected to be able to stick it out for one weekend.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 04:39:56 pm
Either ways... Why did you not stick to your vote on EP? Luke comes back, unvotes himself. It's a tie. Usually, ties mean NL... I'm pretty sure it never means that both are killed.
Uh, Dude, it's lylo, It DOESNT MATTER if the COP Outs... WHEN WE LYNCH THE WRONG PERSON. I'm not telling the cop to out NOW. I'm saying, when the days is about to end, and the cop thinks something isn't right. HE SHOULD SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING. (Or he knows something isn't right).
Anyways, I'll be gone till 4 hours from now.
Post by: notquitethere on December 07, 2013, 04:45:16 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
makeinu - makeinu, Superblackcat
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -
Superblackcat - Pufferfish
Tiruin - Persus13
Not Voting - Tiruin
MOD EXTENSION
I'm going to be at the AdventureX convention again tomorrow and the current deadline falls at the start of an intriguing looking talk on making reactive NPCs. As such, I'm mod-extending the game by 24 hours. The new D2 deadline is Monday 3 PM GMT.
Day ends Monday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 41 hours.
Post by: Persus13 on December 07, 2013, 05:42:41 pm
SBC: So you're still voting Makeinu despite taking back the reason you voted him. Do you still think he's scum for other reasons?
Puff: You've asked me who my top scumpicks are. How about you, who are your top scumpicks?
Post by: makeinu on December 07, 2013, 06:44:27 pm
How does a tie vote work here?
Post by: Persus13 on December 07, 2013, 07:16:05 pm
Unvote, since it bugs you so much.It results in a No lynch.
How does a tie vote work here?
Post by: makeinu on December 07, 2013, 07:23:07 pm
Unvote, since it bugs you so much.It results in a No lynch.
How does a tie vote work here?
Balls... is that an unwritten thing? I didn't see it in the rules
Had I known that before, I'd have left my vote alone. Dammit.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 08:04:22 pm
As of now, Puffer seems the most suspicious to me.
Why did you vote Luke? Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 08:10:31 pm
Okay okay... Let me take a second here.
Persus:So uh, oops. We killed our doctor.Yeah, nice job.
Hey, it's not like I was aware I was lynching the doctor. I believed that I was removing dead weight from the game.
I'm kinda... Really unhappy about this sentence.
Removing dead weight from a 7/2 game... is about the same as adding a 10x burden, way more than a 'dead weight'. Assuming he pulls a griffinup and never comes back.
Especially when there is no reason to vote him... Other than he was 'lurking'. He didn't even SEEM Scummy.
Tiruin: Where are you!?
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.
Post by: makeinu on December 07, 2013, 08:18:07 pm
Tiruin: Where are you!?
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.
I have to just throw this thought out there, at the risk of sounding crazy-town.
Persus and Tiruin are the two most experienced (on this forum anyway) players in this game. Tiruin keeps being mysteriously absent, and Persus keeps performing duties as IC and also steering the conversations to a degree.
I can't point to anything suspicious, but I think we've been neglecting the possibility that one or both are the scum we're hunting. I have to read back now.
Post by: Tiruin on December 07, 2013, 08:30:47 pm
It is LYLO
Lynch, or Lose.
Town Perspective: LYNCH MAFIA, OR LOSE THE GAME.
Mafia Perspective: MISLYNCH.
This is the crucial point in the game where we discard trivialities and instead, regain lost ground--take on what is pertinent, and build our cases on such. We stop nitpicking, and start shooting. This is the best time to use our Extend (I'm voting for an extend, given the all-bold text :P) given the deal of this case. Here, it is in everyone's best motive to:
> Explain themselves, their votes, and how they generally see everyone else.
> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM. In this, he can mark who is innocent or not//HOWEVER, Mafia can also fakeclaim Cop as an easy-win result, and if not counterclaimed or put to scrutiny, then their win is most likely assured.
> The doctor, should preferably not claim given the context.
Lynch, or Lose.
Town Perspective: LYNCH MAFIA, OR LOSE THE GAME.
Mafia Perspective: MISLYNCH.
This is the crucial point in the game where we discard trivialities and instead, regain lost ground--take on what is pertinent, and build our cases on such. We stop nitpicking, and start shooting. This is the best time to use our Extend (I'm voting for an extend, given the all-bold text :P) given the deal of this case. Here, it is in everyone's best motive to:
> Explain themselves, their votes, and how they generally see everyone else.
> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM. In this, he can mark who is innocent or not//HOWEVER, Mafia can also fakeclaim Cop as an easy-win result, and if not counterclaimed or put to scrutiny, then their win is most likely assured.
> The doctor, should preferably not claim given the context.
Who still lives. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815562#msg4815562)
Now, to explain my vote on LP. I admit that I haven't poured over everything--and the suspicion that Luke was pulling a quick and blatant tactic was strange. SELF-VOTING PULLS MUCH ON DOUBT AND DERISION. DO NOT DO THAT. Why? Here's my story.
I thought Luke was pulling a self-vote because of the common notion that 'why would a Mafioso even do such a thing?'. I chose to act against doubt and attack him with a pressure vote (which acts as a real vote if the target cannot reply, will not reply, or will give lacking response, and thus will be pushed).
Needless to say...it was..disappointing, the results.
True this. :PUnvote, since it bugs you so much.It results in a No lynch.
How does a tie vote work here?
I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO LOOK BACK AND CHECK..RECHECK AND DOUBLY RECHECK IN PUBLIC THEIR SUSPICIONS.
Everyone: Who is your most town-y suspect, and why? I've browsed in a skim that either I or Persus are on the top-townies. Why don't you think we're actually scum? Why do you prefer your current vote targets instead?
I will be transparent. Scum can use this time to confuddle the town into either making sure their targets are whom they are, and reinforce that notion--if you are town, defend yourself BUT ALSO try to check those attacking you; passivity is not a valid tactic here, at this time.
SBC
Sorry, I was in a hurry and forgot :< unvoteSo you vote and take it back when the notice of a lynch comes up? Like, when it isn't even Monday yet?
Anything driving that notion?
makeinu
Unvote, since it bugs you so much.Why do you hold your concepts more on what others say, instead of what you're willing to stand on. Are you more than sure about your targets and who you vote, or are you wavering in seeing what everyone else does?
"I'll tell you a trade secret. Out of this time, we're all goodly buddies and chums. In this time, we draw our daggers and practice holding it behind our backs as we observe each other. It's like...poker, I think. I never played that thing."
...Why the heck did you vote yourself?
Persus
Tiruin: I haven't heard anything from you today, what are your thoughts on Luke and Elephant dying and roleflips?I find this peculiar. You voting me more on the gist of 'I want to hear from you.'
My thoughts on Luke stand as above, and on Elephant..well, I can't give anything on Elephant (I mean seriously, you want me to comment on a nightkill? Interesting.) but I am somewhat surprised on his actions.
Yesterday, EP read to me as a newbie-townie given his...flippancy [no malice intended], for lack of a word in my mind. Care-free is the best term I can attribute to him.
And the roleflips?
...Well, I am very disappointed in Luke, to tell the honest truth. He could've invested more time, or at least given anything on what was happening to him IRL so we can judge it more. I mean, if anything is holding him up IRL, then he should say so lest the crude notion of 'I'm lurking (...despite the votes being on him)' stays.
..I was apprehensive on Luke's case given his last post as I was online for that day end but I couldn't let my vote lie and withdraw it.
I will attack your vote. Why are you voting me with less of an assertive tone and more of a curious tone?
Puff: I only skimmed in the latest moment and am curious--what did you see in Luke at the time being?
What value do you see in others' views of you?
Why do you think your target--referring to what I'm saying above in the general text--is a valid one for your vote? Compared to an easy-newbie scum, how does he perform?
I will be looking back and posting soon enough. Severe apologies.
Post by: Tiruin on December 07, 2013, 08:32:59 pm
I'll have to point that lurking could be a good justification--but in this matter where I hold every player playing for the sake of playing (lurking == laziness in my mindset), I'd disagree.Tiruin: Where are you!?
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.
I have to just throw this thought out there, at the risk of sounding crazy-town.
Persus and Tiruin are the two most experienced (on this forum anyway) players in this game. Tiruin keeps being mysteriously absent, and Persus keeps performing duties as IC and also steering the conversations to a degree.
I can't point to anything suspicious, but I think we've been neglecting the possibility that one or both are the scum we're hunting. I have to read back now.
If yer really unhappy, then what? Expound on it!Okay okay... Let me take a second here.
Persus:So uh, oops. We killed our doctor.Yeah, nice job.
Hey, it's not like I was aware I was lynching the doctor. I believed that I was removing dead weight from the game.
I'm kinda... Really unhappy about this sentence.
Removing dead weight from a 7/2 game... is about the same as adding a 10x burden, way more than a 'dead weight'. Assuming he pulls a griffinup and never comes back.
Especially when there is no reason to vote him... Other than he was 'lurking'. He didn't even SEEM Scummy.
Tiruin: Where are you!?
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.
Also..I hope you don't hold this as an excuse, but RL duress has its toll on me. Severe apologies.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 09:07:30 pm
Why do you want me to vote someone?
Puffer: Could you give me ANY information Luke gave us by dying... Other than the fact that he was town.
ANY!
Post by: makeinu on December 07, 2013, 09:26:24 pm
Forgive me for my brevity, as RL as taken its toll on me.
Unlike many, I willingly forgive RL as an excuse for inactivity. I've had many a day stolen from me with no notice.
This gives me pause:
Quote
...Well, I am very disappointed in Luke, to tell the honest truth. He could've invested more time, or at least given anything on what was happening to him IRL so we can judge it more. I mean, if anything is holding him up IRL, then he should say so lest the crude notion of 'I'm lurking (...despite the votes being on him)' stays.
..I was apprehensive on Luke's case given his last post as I was online for that day end but I couldn't let my vote lie and withdraw it.
Quote
Now, to explain my vote on LP. I admit that I haven't poured over everything--and the suspicion that Luke was pulling a quick and blatant tactic was strange. SELF-VOTING PULLS MUCH ON DOUBT AND DERISION. DO NOT DO THAT. Why? Here's my story.
I thought Luke was pulling a self-vote because of the common notion that 'why would a Mafioso even do such a thing?'. I chose to act against doubt and attack him with a pressure vote (which acts as a real vote if the target cannot reply, will not reply, or will give lacking response, and thus will be pushed).
Needless to say...it was..disappointing, the results.
While I, too, am disappointed in Luke (how do you draw Doctor and then play so ... what's even the right word .... weakly?), I'm curious what your apprehension was and why you didn't remove your vote after I did, making the vote a tie again? I have the excuse of incorrect assumption about tie votes as a new player here.
You don't.
You don't have to explain why you voted, I understand that, it was a pressure vote. But a pressure vote can't apply pressure to a player that isn't present to BE pressured. So, please, convince me of the merit in you not having unvoted in that case?
Quote
> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM. In this, he can mark who is innocent or not//HOWEVER, Mafia can also fakeclaim Cop as an easy-win result, and if not counterclaimed or put to scrutiny, then their win is most likely assured.
As before, I'm ambivalent on this one, normally. However, given the circumstances, maybe my ambivalence is misplaced. The problem I see is this:
1) If the cop claims, and only has an Innocent claim, we're not closer to finding scum by much.
2) Claiming, whether the scum counter-claim or not, guarantees no report tomorrow.
So, I would say to the Cop, claim if you have a scum report, and make it convincing. If not, stay silent.
Quote
> The doctor, should preferably not claim given the context.
Color me confused here. You missed that Luke was the Doctor?
Quote
Everyone: Who is your most town-y suspect, and why? I've browsed in a skim that either I or Persus are on the top-townies. Why don't you think we're actually scum? Why do you prefer your current vote targets instead?
Because I can't point at anything that says inconsistency in much that either of you have posted, BUT most of what you both have posted reads more as general advice than game-specific. Such as this:
Quote
I will be transparent. Scum can use this time to confuddle the town into either making sure their targets are whom they are, and reinforce that notion--if you are town, defend yourself BUT ALSO try to check those attacking you; passivity is not a valid tactic here, at this time.
Yet, there's those bits above about Luke, and Persus has a few things in his posts as well, that I'm still considering.
Quote
Why do you hold your concepts more on what others say, instead of what you're willing to stand on. Are you more than sure about your targets and who you vote, or are you wavering in seeing what everyone else does?
...Why the heck did you vote yourself?
Because it doesn't matter. I don't hold my concepts, as you say, based on anything others say, though it's natural to react. And at the end yesterday, I realized I wasn't sure about my target. I wanted to be, I wanted to stand firm in my conviction that EP was scum, but on reflection I couldn't.
I've already explained why I voted for myself, and I pulled it so people would stop asking why.
@SBC: the only information I see from Luke's death is the scum can't claim Doctor. Which really isn't any information at all.
Post by: Persus13 on December 07, 2013, 10:06:35 pm
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by "what kind of player". Scum players are scum. I'm not an expert on scumhunting or in finding scum, but if someone's new and are looking scummy for playstyle reasons, I tend to ignore them and look at who's hunting them instead. From what little experience I've had, those players tend to be scum. That's why I've focused more on Puff and Elephant than makeinu.
What's your problem with me saying scummy? I prefer it because only two people in this game are 100% sure who the scum is. Cause if the Cop had gotten a guilty suspect last night s/he would have probably revealed it by now.
Persus and Tiruin are the two most experienced (on this forum anyway) players in this game. Tiruin keeps being mysteriously absent, and Persus keeps performing duties as IC and also steering the conversations to a degree.I would hardly say I'm experienced. I've played a grand total of two full games on this forum, one of which I got NKed N1, and the other I partially caused a town loss because I was so focused on the scumminess of one player I neglected to think about other possibilities. I'd say the most experienced players I've been with are Jim Groovestar and Toaster.
I can't point to anything suspicious, but I think we've been neglecting the possibility that one or both are the scum we're hunting. I have to read back now.
But I'll agree with you that Tiruin could be scum and that I've been doing my best to help people understand how this forum plays the game.
I thought Luke was pulling a self-vote because of the common notion that 'why would a Mafioso even do such a thing?'. I chose to act against doubt and attack him with a pressure vote (which acts as a real vote if the target cannot reply, will not reply, or will give lacking response, and thus will be pushed).Oh, okay. That's an understandable reason. Besides Luke, who was your top scumpick D1?
Everyone: Who is your most town-y suspect, and why?I have to say that for me it's probably makeinu. Despite some poor early play and multiple attacks, he seems to be trying to find scum. While he's done a few scummy actions, his reasoning behind his actions has seemed legitimate. Unless he does something that is I find very scummy, I doubt my vote will be on him day end.
PersusYou've been in what, three and a half games with me now? I vote players when they disappear and I want to hear more from them, and either say something to that effect or ask specific questions. Do you want me to drag up every time I've done this? It's not like it's close to day end either. I have over 24 hours to change my vote if I deem it necessary. And the fact is that until your last two posts you had posted fewer times in the thread than Luke. Has that all been because of RL issues?Tiruin: I haven't heard anything from you today, what are your thoughts on Luke and Elephant dying and roleflips?I find this peculiar. You voting me more on the gist of 'I want to hear from you.'
...
I will attack your vote. Why are you voting me with less of an assertive tone and more of a curious tone?
My thoughts on Luke stand as above, and on Elephant..well, I can't give anything on Elephant (I mean seriously, you want me to comment on a nightkill? Interesting.) but I am somewhat surprised on his actions.My top D1 scumpick got night killed, which indicates that the Mafia considered him town enough to kill. I was confused by that. I also was trying to think of something to start a conversation and that was the best one I got.
Yesterday, EP read to me as a newbie-townie given his...flippancy [no malice intended], for lack of a word in my mind. Care-free is the best term I can attribute to him.
Puffer: Could you give me ANY information Luke gave us by dying... Other than the fact that he was town.I second the motion.
I was confused by this too, but I think that section was just in general lylo advice.Quote> The doctor, should preferably not claim given the context.
Color me confused here. You missed that Luke was the Doctor?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 11:49:13 pm
Quote
1) If the cop claims, and only has an Innocent claim, we're not closer to finding scum by much.
2) Claiming, whether the scum counter-claim or not, guarantees no report tomorrow.
So, I would say to the Cop, claim if you have a scum report, and make it convincing. If not, stay silent.
Uhh, Unless we are voting an inno of the cop... ;)
Quote
Quote from: Superblackcat on Today at 08:10:31 pm
Persus: What kind of player do you think is most likely to be scum? Please don't say 'Scummy'. What constitutes 'scummy'.
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by "what kind of player". Scum players are scum. I'm not an expert on scumhunting or in finding scum, but if someone's new and are looking scummy for playstyle reasons, I tend to ignore them and look at who's hunting them instead. From what little experience I've had, those players tend to be scum. That's why I've focused more on Puff and Elephant than makeinu.
What's your problem with me saying scummy? I prefer it because only two people in this game are 100% sure who the scum is. Cause if the Cop had gotten a guilty suspect last night s/he would have probably revealed it by now.
What I want... Is exactly what you think makes up a scummy player (I don't mind using the word scummy, I just didn't want that to be your answer ;P). You say that XYZ players you come across are scum. So what are their habits? What do scum usually do in your mind, and what constitutes scumminess. What makes you think someone is scummy. I personally have a list (Not really) of things that I look for as markers for scum.
Also, Persus, What reason do you think there could be in scum killing EP? He had two people lynching him (Me included, though I wouldn't of stayed on him). It seems that the scum is drawing attention to themselves with this move.
The only reason, would incriminate yourself, which would be a wifom saying that you wouldn't kill him if you were scum, and thus you couldn't be scum, because killing him would draw attention to you. Uhhh. I don't like to think about wifoms. Do you have any other reason, not including a wifom, that he may have been killeD?
Uhh, Makeinu, EP, and Tiruin, All of you answer that too please.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 08, 2013, 12:10:59 am
Tiruin, So you want me to be voting someone?
Why do you want me to vote someone?
Puffer: Could you give me ANY information Luke gave us by dying... Other than the fact that he was town.
ANY!
Spoiler: Literally ALL of Luke_Prowler's posts up to his lynching, in order (click to show/hide)
He made eight posts. can you tell me how this was helpful to the town in ANY WAY except for the fact that he was town?
I can give you something, for sure. Two people voted on him. That means up to two of us who voted COULD be mafia. COULD.
Sorry, I was in a hurry and forgot :< unvote
As of now, Puffer seems the most suspicious to me.
Why did you vote Luke? Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him.
As for why I voted Luke, I'm sure you'll find the answer in this post, under my response to Tiruin.
What do you mean by "Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him"? Again, are you accusing me of bandwagoning? I had my case against him but I was wrong. It happens in Mafia.
Persus:
Seriously Makeinu, why are you voting yourself?
SBC: So you're still voting Makeinu despite taking back the reason you voted him. Do you still think he's scum for other reasons?
Puff: You've asked me who my top scumpicks are. How about you, who are your top scumpicks?
Currently SuperBlackCat is my number 1 scum. You're my number 2, tied with Tiruin.
Tiruin:
Forgive me for my brevity, as RL as taken its toll on me.This. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.It is LYLO
Lynch, or Lose.
Town Perspective: LYNCH MAFIA, OR LOSE THE GAME.
Mafia Perspective: MISLYNCH.
This is the crucial point in the game where we discard trivialities and instead, regain lost ground--take on what is pertinent, and build our cases on such. We stop nitpicking, and start shooting. This is the best time to use our Extend (I'm voting for an extend, given the all-bold text :P) given the deal of this case. Here, it is in everyone's best motive to:
> Explain themselves, their votes, and how they generally see everyone else.
> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM. In this, he can mark who is innocent or not//HOWEVER, Mafia can also fakeclaim Cop as an easy-win result, and if not counterclaimed or put to scrutiny, then their win is most likely assured.
Quote
I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE TO LOOK BACK AND CHECK..RECHECK AND DOUBLY RECHECK IN PUBLIC THEIR SUSPICIONS.
Everyone: Who is your most town-y suspect, and why? I've browsed in a skim that either I or Persus are on the top-townies. Why don't you think we're actually scum? Why do you prefer your current vote targets instead?
Oddly enough, it's Makeinu.
I'm going to be condensing my case tonight if possible on my #1.
Quote
Puff: I only skimmed in the latest moment and am curious--what did you see in Luke at the time being?
What value do you see in others' views of you?
Why do you think your target--referring to what I'm saying above in the general text--is a valid one for your vote? Compared to an easy-newbie scum, how does he perform?
I will be looking back and posting soon enough. Severe apologies.
In Luke? I saw a role that was not giving any information and I consider those to be some of the more dangerous roles, as later in the game, people often look over a lurker if he posts -just- enough. Which is why I think Squill made it so far in the previous BM, as the comments towards him, even endgame were "I can't tell if he's town or scum, he hasn't really posted enough to get a good read" and no one pressured him into questioning
Quote
What value do you see in others' views of you?As in, what do I think others think of me?
and for the last question, are you referring to Luke or my current #1 scum pick, SBC? And what do you mean by easy-newbie scum?
PPE:
What reason do you think there could be in scum killing EP? He had two people lynching him (Me included, though I wouldn't of stayed on him). It seems that the scum is drawing attention to themselves with this move.
The only reason, would incriminate yourself, which would be a wifom saying that you wouldn't kill him if you were scum, and thus you couldn't be scum, because killing him would draw attention to you. Uhhh. I don't like to think about wifoms. Do you have any other reason, not including a wifom, that he may have been killeD?
It's all WiFoM from here on night-kills. I only briefly speculate upon them, and I would hazard the reckless guesses that wither EP was onto something, or that they killed him to make us think he was onto something.
See, all answers have a contradictory side to them.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 12:24:36 am
Quote
SBC:To be the 2nd person to jump onto a band wagon... usually is someone trying not to be noticed. That raises a red flag. Especially if the post doesn't include much information so that people skim over it. Yours did not. It was very short compared to your usual posts, and it addressed two people, Make and Luke. Two questions, and less pressuring on Makeinu. I would've skimmed over it if I wasn't looking for it.
Quote from: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 09:07:30 pm
Tiruin, So you want me to be voting someone?
Why do you want me to vote someone?
Puffer: Could you give me ANY information Luke gave us by dying... Other than the fact that he was town.
ANY!
Spoiler: Literally ALL of Luke_Prowler's posts up to his lynching, in order (click to show/hide)
He made eight posts. can you tell me how this was helpful to the town in ANY WAY except for the fact that he was town?
I can give you something, for sure. Two people voted on him. That means up to two of us who voted COULD be mafia. COULD.
Quote from: Superblackcat on December 07, 2013, 08:04:22 pm
Sorry, I was in a hurry and forgot :< unvote
As of now, Puffer seems the most suspicious to me.
Why did you vote Luke? Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him.
As for why I voted Luke, I'm sure you'll find the answer in this post, under my response to Tiruin.
What do you mean by "Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him"? Again, are you accusing me of bandwagoning? I had my case against him but I was wrong. It happens in Mafia.
Don't you think by killing a more scummy, More viable person... would've given you more information?
Quote
This. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.So you force our cop into not outing... basically making him totally useless. Why? Roleclaiming is a viable, and in fact very useful tactic in mafia. If only more people used it. I very do not like this sentence.
Puffer: Why do you think that it is such a bad tactic.
Too many scummy things has built up. I've already said how I didn't like some of his posts earlier, now it's gotten worse.
When you compare Luke and Squill... Wait you can't. It's two different people. Squill was actually active lurking, Luke was just gone... Probably asleep. I don't know why he didn't come check this. But I can't really. I don't stalk him. (Or maybe I do ;) ).
Persus: What do you think is your most scummy action thus far into this game.
Post by: makeinu on December 08, 2013, 12:37:53 am
Quote1) If the cop claims, and only has an Innocent claim, we're not closer to finding scum by much.
2) Claiming, whether the scum counter-claim or not, guarantees no report tomorrow.
So, I would say to the Cop, claim if you have a scum report, and make it convincing. If not, stay silent.
Uhh, Unless we are voting an inno of the cop... ;)
By which I think you're reiterating your point before, that if we're set to lynch and the cop has confirmed town alignment, they should speak up. On that, we're in agreement, BUT we run the risk of having a scum false- or counter-claim if they wait too long. In fact, no matter what happens, we face that, and have no way to easily sort it out.
Conundrum.
I like the idea of the cop claiming, and earlier is better, because it gives more time to sort the claim. A last-minute claim is actually counter-productive for the Town, as it only serves to sow doubt right before the day ends. I won't agree that a cop-claim now is insta-scum, but it won't be taken without a grain of salt, that's for certain.
Quote
I'm not an expert on scumhunting or in finding scum, but if someone's new and are looking scummy for playstyle reasons, I tend to ignore them and look at who's hunting them instead. From what little experience I've had, those players tend to be scum. That's why I've focused more on Puff and Elephant than makeinu.
Which is in contradiction to where your vote ended the day yesterday: on me. For a reason I still do not fathom. Something to do with something I said about Luke; the reasoning, if it can be called such, is baffling.
PPE: actually, it makes sense if you knew Luke was town, and there's only one way you could have known that.
Quote
Also, Persus, What reason do you think there could be in scum killing EP? He had two people lynching him (Me included, though I wouldn't of stayed on him). It seems that the scum is drawing attention to themselves with this move.
No, again, your vote was on me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815226#msg4815226). Persus and I were voting for EP, until the end of the day. And then, stuff happened.
Quote
The only reason, would incriminate yourself, which would be a wifom saying that you wouldn't kill him if you were scum, and thus you couldn't be scum, because killing him would draw attention to you. Uhhh. I don't like to think about wifoms. Do you have any other reason, not including a wifom, that he may have been killeD?
So your statements above are inaccurate in several ways. Either you can't keep track of your own posts, or you're blowing smoke. I'm inclined to the latter. That's how I sort WIFOM: assume that the one bringing it up is trying to confuse the issue. That, to me, is a scum-tell. If you're facing WIFOM, talk it out in your head. Public WIFOM doesn't serve the Town, it reinforces their own doubts.
Vote Superblackcat.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 01:03:51 am
I'm not an expert on scumhunting or in finding scum, but if someone's new and are looking scummy for playstyle reasons, I tend to ignore them and look at who's hunting them instead. From what little experience I've had, those players tend to be scum. That's why I've focused more on Puff and Elephant than makeinu.
Which is in contradiction to where your vote ended the day yesterday: on me. For a reason I still do not fathom. Something to do with something I said about Luke; the reasoning, if it can be called such, is baffling.
PPE: actually, it makes sense if you knew Luke was town, and there's only one way you could have known that.
That was posted by Persus... Alright?
Also, I'm sorry, I meant three on EP, and then I left, and it became 2.
But scum chooses their kill during the day, so it may have been while I was still on EP that they chose it
Post by: Gentlefish on December 08, 2013, 01:50:30 am
Quote
I'm not an expert on scumhunting or in finding scum, but if someone's new and are looking scummy for playstyle reasons, I tend to ignore them and look at who's hunting them instead. From what little experience I've had, those players tend to be scum. That's why I've focused more on Puff and Elephant than makeinu.
Which is in contradiction to where your vote ended the day yesterday: on me. For a reason I still do not fathom. Something to do with something I said about Luke; the reasoning, if it can be called such, is baffling.
PPE: actually, it makes sense if you knew Luke was town, and there's only one way you could have known that.
That was posted by Persus... Alright?
Also, I'm sorry, I meant three on EP, and then I left, and it became 2.
But scum chooses their kill during the day, so it may have been while I was still on EP that they chose it
Can you give us a quote linking to that post that Persus made?
Post by: makeinu on December 08, 2013, 02:19:37 am
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 02:39:03 am
Post by: makeinu on December 08, 2013, 03:48:07 am
Makeinu, did it clear things up? That you misread the thing? Or am I missing something?
No. If anything, reviewing everything, I'm more confused.
For example, why did you ask this:
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Makeinu, EP, and Tiruin, All of you answer that too please.
Your seeming inability to quote properly and track who's alive and who's dead makes it very hard to suss what you're even trying to say. You're all over the place and I can see only two options:
1) You're scum, trying to baffle us with bullshit, or
2) you're Town, and really just aren't making any coherent argument.
Unfortunately, the whole thing is WIFOM either way, because I can see how either case could be made.
So I don't know what to think.
I am inclined to think, given that you and Pufferfish have consistently at each other means that you're both playing a good game of mind-fuck as a scum team, one of you is paired with Persus or Tiruin, or you're both as lost as I am. That I can't figure out which troubles me, because it means we're doomed to lose.
I'm going to call for this: the cop needs to claim, now, if there's anything, and I mean ANYthing that you can add. They'll die tonight if they do, but it'll clear or incriminate someone, and we're at LyLo. We need information, and the only reason not to claim is if the order was for Luke or EP, and they weren't allowed to change it.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 04:15:30 am
I really should sleep... Yep Yep.
(Cop Out... PLEASE, Don't wait for scum to pretend out please ;-;)
Post by: Gentlefish on December 08, 2013, 04:27:45 am
Something helpful I think.
Spoiler: last posts and last votes (click to show/hide)
Go here (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~azhou/projects/LT/) and copy the thread url below in
Code: [Select]
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.0So see the posts made by everyone who ever posted in this thread.
To do it.
Post by: makeinu on December 08, 2013, 05:24:27 am
Which of these is true? This:
I would hardly say I'm experienced. I've played a grand total of two full games on this forum,
or this:
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You've been in what, three and a half games with me now?
You tell me that you've been in two mafia games here, and question Tiruin that you've been in three and a half with her. Which is true?
(How does one play half a game? I assume replace out?)
Further, you quoted and commented on Tiruin's thoughts about the deaths and role-flips, but no comment on this:
...Well, I am very disappointed in Luke, to tell the honest truth. He could've invested more time, or at least given anything on what was happening to him IRL so we can judge it more. I mean, if anything is holding him up IRL, then he should say so lest the crude notion of 'I'm lurking (...despite the votes being on him)' stays.
..I was apprehensive on Luke's case given his last post as I was online for that day end but I couldn't let my vote lie and withdraw it.
That part of Tiruin's post really bothers me, I've mentioned it twice now, and you have no comment for it. Why?
I know she hasn't had a chance to answer to that, I hope she does soon, because I really want to know why, if she didn't actually suspect Luke, she let him die.
Tiruin: why didn't you at least post to tell me that a tie vote is a no-lynch?
Post by: Persus13 on December 08, 2013, 08:01:40 am
Which of these is true? This:I would hardly say I'm experienced. I've played a grand total of two full games on this forum,
or this:QuoteYou've been in what, three and a half games with me now?
You tell me that you've been in two mafia games here, and question Tiruin that you've been in three and a half with her. Which is true?
BOth. I have played two finished Mafia games and am currently playing two more. One of the finished games I called a half cause I replaced in D1 and got night killed that night, and Tiruin only showed up as a replacement D3.
Im very busy today, so I won't have a lot of opportunities to post in the next 12 hours, sorry.
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 08:10:41 am
Tiruin, So you want me to be voting someone?I would -prefer- if you voted someone. The hesitance to vote, for me, is a null tell--however in how you do it?
Why do you want me to vote someone?
Seriously Makeinu, why are you voting yourself?
SBC: So you're still voting Makeinu despite taking back the reason you voted him. Do you still think he's scum for other reasons?
Puff: You've asked me who my top scumpicks are. How about you, who are your top scumpicks?
Sorry, I was in a hurry and forgot :< unvote
As of now, Puffer seems the most suspicious to me.
Why did you vote Luke? Be the 2nd not Luke to vote him.
Alright Makeinu, my bad, I read your reasoning completely wrong, and assumed that you were unvoting Luke, not EP.Whereas I want you to vote someone because you either speak as:
Either ways... Why did you not stick to your vote on EP? Luke comes back, unvotes himself. It's a tie. Usually, ties mean NL... I'm pretty sure it never means that both are killed.
Uh, Dude, it's lylo, It DOESNT MATTER if the COP Outs... WHEN WE LYNCH THE WRONG PERSON. I'm not telling the cop to out NOW. I'm saying, when the days is about to end, and the cop thinks something isn't right. HE SHOULD SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING. (Or he knows something isn't right).
Anyways, I'll be gone till 4 hours from now.
> Apprehensive and unsure to vote OR
> Apprehensive and unsure to vote due to being scum.
Who do you suspect, and why? SBC
What do you make of makeinu's self-vote?
makeinu
-snip-
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You don't have to explain why you voted, I understand that, it was a pressure vote. But a pressure vote can't apply pressure to a player that isn't present to BE pressured. So, please, convince me of the merit in you not having unvoted in that case?I explain why I voted for anyone to get the point. Luke was present then, making the bolded part...illogical. I mean, heck, I'll never know why in the seven rings of hell he voted himself at all, so I stuck with the earlier presumption that he was doing a ploy...and the content of his posts also played a part with the vote.
Your...'excuse', as you lovingly put on yourself leads to the fact that you did vote, yet however remain faltering on it.
You voted yourself. Which leads to utter confusion on why in the world you're doing that!
Did you give a reason? No? None? You did, but they seemingly contradict most of whatever you ever said.
I figured.
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The problem I see is this:Well credibility is due where credibility is due. We have one less person to suspect! And given the context of the recent replies, scrutiny increases 100 fold, except it removes one person of being suspect, and rather gives the claimant the eye of scrutiny, or shifts the view altogether.
1) If the cop claims, and only has an Innocent claim, we're not closer to finding scum by much.
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2) Claiming, whether the scum counter-claim or not, guarantees no report tomorrow.2:2 left on the target list. Whether there is a tomorrow or not lies in how the game is played now.
Tell me how you see the futility of the matter, please.
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Color me confused here. You missed that Luke was the Doctor?That was general advice. >_>
Now back to you voting yourself.
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Because it doesn't matter. I don't hold my concepts, as you say, based on anything others say, though it's natural to react. And at the end yesterday, I realized I wasn't sure about my target. I wanted to be, I wanted to stand firm in my conviction that EP was scum, but on reflection I couldn't.Oh, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815575#msg4815575) really (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4816497#msg4816497) now? Playing a personal grievance when the vote entails so much more on the matter? It shows who you suspect. And to detail: It shows either that you're guilty of your act and see the game at LYLO, try to commit such an effort for vague reasons.
I've already explained why I voted for myself, and I pulled it so people would stop asking why.
Or.
You're town and literally vote yourself because of pity and omgwhatdidIdo. This can be held in silence to yourself because we can all repent for our actions later on, or in the least CONTINUE WHAT THE DEAD COULD NOT, OUR WINCON.
But back to the second link I said above ("really"), your first paragraph speaks of self-guilt. Nulltell? I don't think so. If you're town and are guilt-ing yourself in a public fashion, for what purpose is that? To show off to the public?
Compare (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815268#msg4815268) your action there, then compare what you said regarding EP and/or Luke.
You're doubting too much. You think they're town? You think they're scum? How sure are you then, when the time comes to decide who is scum to lynch rather than laying down your vote to lynch.
You build a case, and ready your rifle--not to shoot, but to support yourself and wave it around like it was ever armed.
Yeah, you may be wrong--but compare it to how you've acted? Are you willing to go on the lynch when you're in doubt, or leave it to those who are willing to vote instead?
I let my vote lie. Yea, his absence did speak of some suspicion non-mafia related, but why in the world he voted himself in the first place does not bode well for my conscience. Ever.
I find you, here, to be very interesting.
Can you list a list of suspects and how much you doubt them to be scum? You did list today as MYLO--though none are invulnerable to the kill.
Perses
This is cheesy. As in, 'poke the probability with slapstick while boosting my own image' cheesy.Persus and Tiruin are the two most experienced (on this forum anyway) players in this game. Tiruin keeps being mysteriously absent, and Persus keeps performing duties as IC and also steering the conversations to a degree.I would hardly say I'm experienced. I've played a grand total of two full games on this forum, one of which I got NKed N1, and the other I partially caused a town loss because I was so focused on the scumminess of one player I neglected to think about other possibilities. I'd say the most experienced players I've been with are Jim Groovestar and Toaster.
I can't point to anything suspicious, but I think we've been neglecting the possibility that one or both are the scum we're hunting. I have to read back now.
But I'll agree with you that Tiruin could be scum and that I've been doing my best to help people understand how this forum plays the game.
You'll agree, yet what do you do to find that out? You forward your own face, yet I've to inquire on how much you've learned.
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Oh, okay. That's an understandable reason. Besides Luke, who was your top scumpick D1?I would go for Elephant Parade due to his flippy-ness, but that would be an atrocity to the scumteam given that kind of ties. Either/or the case may be, the next suspect would be makeinu for his...jumpiness, though it is saved by scant few acts I see in his motives. However D1 as I said before has been fraught with newbie tells that I'm thus far confused on my targets.
Granted, I already have my target I'm pushing. I'm just not voting for him yet--what does this tell you?
Quote
You've been in what, three and a half games with me now? I vote players when they disappear and I want to hear more from them, and either say something to that effect or ask specific questions. Do you want me to drag up every time I've done this? It's not like it's close to day end either. I have over 24 hours to change my vote if I deem it necessary. And the fact is that until your last two posts you had posted fewer times in the thread than Luke. Has that all been because of RL issues?Nope, nope I don't wanna drag it. I'm just curious how that works on your side...and no, I never carry metaknowledge with me when I play a game. It's too hazardous to the health.
Now, query. Given the suspects then, and the suspects now, how do you discern who is scum and who is town?
I'm pretty interested in your thought process.
Back to SBC:
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hat reason do you think there could be in scum killing EP? He had two people lynching him (Me included, though I wouldn't of stayed on him). It seems that the scum is drawing attention to themselves with this move.*sniff sniff*
The only reason, would incriminate yourself, which would be a wifom saying that you wouldn't kill him if you were scum, and thus you couldn't be scum, because killing him would draw attention to you. Uhhh. I don't like to think about wifoms. Do you have any other reason, not including a wifom, that he may have been killeD?
Uhh, Makeinu, EP, and Tiruin, All of you answer that too please.
I prefer not to think about WHY scum killed EP given the gist of the general notion, as subjectivity rears its ugly head as an answer--unless you have a very good process of filtering or tracing, I'm very interested on why you're bringing this up as a topic to speak about.
Meaning: Don't talk about the darn NK unless you have tangible and reasonable evidence to do so. I did not, and still refuse to, think about why EP was killed for his sake of being killed as something to track scum.
Unless you're scum yourself and somehow are gloating, which I truly doubt--the gloating, given your temperament.
In addition to the stuff above, this is what I will prefer people not to do unless they have evidence to back it up.
..Or unless we're in a regular game wherein we can discuss our abilities when we feel it right to discuss. Your call.
Puffinpuff
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He made eight posts. can you tell me how this was helpful to the town in ANY WAY except for the fact that he was town?Or they couldn't and everyone is town. Luke seemed like dead weight >_>
I can give you something, for sure. Two people voted on him. That means up to two of us who voted COULD be mafia. COULD.
What did you see in those eight posts?
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Currently SuperBlackCat is my number 1 scum. You're my number 2, tied with Tiruin.In which we are named, but where are the reasons?
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This. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.Interesting. Why?
Quote
As in, what do I think others think of me?Yes. Basically.
and for the last question, are you referring to Luke or my current #1 scum pick, SBC? And what do you mean by easy-newbie scum?
As for the last question: Both, preferably, but I was talking about that blackkittycat, whom you had unvoted. Despite you saying there was 'suspicions' on him.
I mean easy-newbie scum as in those who flail around a lot. Those who..well, spit scumtells by the dozen. Who are too free-of-thought that their thought dwells more on WIFOM than of the bread and butter we subsist on as logic.
Ok I'm getting lost here. Give me a bit to organize.
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 08:17:20 am
Tiruin: why didn't you at least post to tell me that a tie vote is a no-lynch?Um..well.
*checks Sprint OP*
*checks BM-Normal OP*
...Huh. I thought..I always thought that...
*edits BM-Normal OP*
...
*hangs head in shame*
I thought it was common sense :S
...I think that's all for now with nothing missed.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 02:13:59 pm
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Who do you suspect, and why? SBCUhh, I am currently voting puffer, so I obviously suspect Puffer. I'm slightly suspicious of Persus just because none of any of our attention has been on him. He seems completely town, but at the same time.... He could just be very good at impersonating town, and active lurking. I will have to go back and reread on him.
What do you make of makeinu's self-vote?
I am suspicious of you Tiruin, because, You really haven't replied much, and stayed on a vote that would not of given and goodies.
Sure, In a regular 9/2 game, kill a lurker is fine. But this is 7/2. We get 2 less MLs. There is NO point Whatsoever, to kill someone based purely off of lurking, you wasted a vote for scum, or vote to clear up a lot of information. Like I said earlier.
About MakeInU... I really don't know. He could be very well scum, or he could not be. He seems to be trying to help town, but at the same time... Not drawing attention.
Someone not drawing attention scares me. Anyone.
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I prefer not to think about WHY scum killed EP given the gist of the general notion, as subjectivity rears its ugly head as an answer--unless you have a very good process of filtering or tracing, I'm very interested on why you're bringing this up as a topic to speak about.
I was talking about killing EP for his chance at being scum, and even if he wasn't scum, We would get information from his death. (A much better death than Luke I may add).
Now He is dead, just not killed by us. So I'm back to the original question. Based off of what was discussed pre n1, and the fact that night action are sent BEFORE day ends. Who do you think would kill EP. As they would only see some of the N1 discussion, before, I assume, they go to sleep.
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 03:54:18 pm
Tir Tir:QuoteWho do you suspect, and why? SBCUhh, I am currently voting puffer[...]
What do you make of makeinu's self-vote?
Quote
I am suspicious of you Tiruin, because, You really haven't replied much, and stayed on a vote that would not of given and goodies.@bolded part:...is this the 'I voted Luke' thing?
Sure, In a regular 9/2 game, kill a lurker is fine. But this is 7/2. We get 2 less MLs. There is NO point Whatsoever, to kill someone based purely off of lurking, you wasted a vote for scum, or vote to clear up a lot of information. Like I said earlier.
Inactivity is the best thing to kill off a game. So too when a person is incomprehensible. Granted, Luke wasn't incomprehensible,
I explained why I did so--including showing the notion that self-voting is [NOT_A_GOOD_THING] to do. THinking about it, it comes off as a null tell for me, explaining two things:
> Scum don't vote themselves, so the person must be town! :O [Yeah, no. That is NOT ANY GOOD WAY OF PROVING YOURSELF TOWN. To generalize, it comes off as a cheap move.]
> Town don't vote themselves..eh, its hard to rationalize it but its illogical, in the least. In luke's case, that means RVS'ing someone on a more-than-not redundant clause after his reply, then self-voting with a vague reason and no backing--especially quite darn ANYTHING on anyone.
-Puff got Luke's posts all here-
In a real game, he'd be dead meat. Back then? He read extremely bad newbie card to me--but how would I teach if that would be the prospect, would be one thought in my mind--but still ambivalent on whether town or scum. To be honest, it read town to me given his wording, but I would be firstly damned before I give off the idea that 'self-voting is a towntell'. Oh, and given the limit of time and me seeing the vote given the timecount back then. I could not extend. I could not do anything otherwise.
Though to be honest, he had a towntell. A huge one that I only see when looking back and thinking about it. He didn't tie the vote. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4815499#msg4815499)
I'll leave that for thought, but I have to point that you seem to be judging based on what we know -now- instead of what we knew -before-. Wherein the 'we' = Town, to emphasize.
About MakeInU... I really don't know. He could be very well scum, or he could not be. He seems to be trying to help town, but at the same time... Not drawing attention.So you're unsure...yes?
Someone not drawing attention scares me. Anyone.
Question him. Or has any mode of questioning from you resulted in nebulous conclusions?
I was talking about killing EP for his chance at being scum, and even if he wasn't scum, We would get information from his death. (A much better death than Luke I may add).@Bolded part: ...I can't fully understand the early part; the one in purple doesn't...parse well. He flipped town. Is it connected with the 'and even if he wasn't scum' in any way?
Now He is dead, just not killed by us. So I'm back to the original question. Based off of what was discussed pre n1, and the fact that night action are sent BEFORE day ends. Who do you think would kill EP. As they would only see some of the N1 discussion, before, I assume, they go to sleep.
@Orange part: How? at the first sentence. Why? At the one in parenthesis.
@2nd bolded part: "Yes he is dead, and just not killed by us. What's your point? That is what happened, and to say otherwise is foolish...erm, excuse my wording, but that is the best thought that came up to describe it."
@3rd bolded part: *checks back, then sees OP*
Ahhh. Now I get part of what your basis is..though you need to work on your formatting//wording, it's somewhat confusing and the basis isn't clear. Scum have to choose their kill in the day.
...
...
I still stand by what I mean before. It is trivial, and hopeless to speculate on something that we would probably never know until post-game when the scumchat/deadchat is revealed. Your sentence I highlighted in green..doesn't make much sense.
You really do seem scummy, but my intuition tells me otherwise. 'Tis something in your wording that eggs me on 'he's newbie'. And not newbie-scummyscum.
Anyway, please do answer the questions, thank you. :)
Post by: Persus13 on December 08, 2013, 05:24:19 pm
Also, Persus, What reason do you think there could be in scum killing EP? He had two people lynching him (Me included, though I wouldn't of stayed on him). It seems that the scum is drawing attention to themselves with this move.Anything talk involving Night Kills is usually WIFOM. So no.
The only reason, would incriminate yourself, which would be a wifom saying that you wouldn't kill him if you were scum, and thus you couldn't be scum, because killing him would draw attention to you. Uhhh. I don't like to think about wifoms. Do you have any other reason, not including a wifom, that he may have been killeD?
Persus: What do you think is your most scummy action thus far into this game.I'm sorry, but I don't keep a list of actions by myself I find scummy. The point of the game is to find scum by looking for scummy actions, but I know I'm not scum, and so I don't really care if I look scummy. If you want to look through my posts, this link (http://think0028.com/lurkertracker.py?sort=post&postStart=0&url=http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.0) is the lurker tracker I like to use as it shows posts and vote history.
Bleh, I have to go. More later.
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 05:30:50 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
makeinu -
Persus13 -
Pufferfish -Superblackcat
Superblackcat - Pufferfish, makeinu
Tiruin - Persus13
Not Voting - Tiruin
Day ends Monday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 15.5 hours.
Post by: Persus13 on December 08, 2013, 08:27:50 pm
Persus:Hmm, I must have missed that. I'm not sure I understand what the bolded part means.
Further, you quoted and commented on Tiruin's thoughts about the deaths and role-flips, but no comment on this:...Well, I am very disappointed in Luke, to tell the honest truth. He could've invested more time, or at least given anything on what was happening to him IRL so we can judge it more. I mean, if anything is holding him up IRL, then he should say so lest the crude notion of 'I'm lurking (...despite the votes being on him)' stays.
..I was apprehensive on Luke's case given his last post as I was online for that day end but I couldn't let my vote lie and withdraw it.
That part of Tiruin's post really bothers me, I've mentioned it twice now, and you have no comment for it. Why?
I know she hasn't had a chance to answer to that, I hope she does soon, because I really want to know why, if she didn't actually suspect Luke, she let him die.
Tiruin: Can you explain the meaning of the bolded part please? Were you unable or unwilling to unvote Luke?
PersesMy guess is that you want to vote SBC because you are focused on him a lot. Why aren't you voting. Maybe because you are trying to trap him?
Granted, I already have my target I'm pushing. I'm just not voting for him yet--what does this tell you?
Now, query. Given the suspects then, and the suspects now, how do you discern who is scum and who is town?Well, there are 4 people. Two are town, two are scum. At the moment I doubt SBC and Puff are a team because they've been at loggerheads for a while. Then again, this was the same logic that led me to believe you were town last game. You and Puff seem very shifty at the moment. Puff has been hunting targets that have seemed scummy, but for the wrong reasons. Makeinu and Luke both have seemed scummy, but for easily explainable and simple reasons, and the fact that Puff prevented an extension on D1 while at the same time trying to get lynched still seems fairly scummy to me. Then there's you. Despite having very few posts, you've come across as shifty to me. I can't exactly nailed down why, but you've been doing stuff like attacking SBC for a subject I brought up for instance. However, it's Pufferfish I think is more likely to be scum and possibly your scum partner. I think you being his scum partner more likely than makeinu and definitely more likely than SBC.
Also, why are you attacking SBC for not voting someone while you yourself are doing the same thing? That smells of hypocrisy to me.
Makeinu: I while back you said something about how you would have let the vote be tied if you knew it caused a NL. That wouldn't have been a good idea and would have caused at least two votes on you today, if not an immediate reaction. NL is fine if everyone agrees to it, but if not everyone agrees and someone cause it to happen, then they're usually attacked for being scum.
Post by: Persus13 on December 08, 2013, 08:28:36 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on December 08, 2013, 10:53:37 pm
Looking back at your reasons... One of them is because I said EP instead of Persus (Or whoever I was supposed to say)
And Another one was that you thought I posted something... where Infact Persus did.
Also, I'd like to point out that I AM voting Puffer.
Post by: makeinu on December 08, 2013, 11:16:18 pm
Makeinu: Could you tell me why you are voting me?
I had reasons to suspect you as scum. I think that Persus has the situation summed up well.
Unvote.
Vote Tiruin.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 12:04:29 am
Makeinu: I [sic] while back you said something about how you would have let the vote be tied if you knew it caused a NL. That wouldn't have been a good idea and would have caused at least two votes on you today, if not an immediate reaction. NL is fine if everyone agrees to it, but if not everyone agrees and someone cause it to happen, then they're usually attacked for being scum.
Yes, but if I had left my vote, then Luke would have caused the NL to happen by pulling his vote.
Good to know, however.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 12:29:18 am
Wherein you hop on his conclusion more than anyone elses and fail to regard your target's words to you?Makeinu: Could you tell me why you are voting me?
I had reasons to suspect you as scum. I think that Persus has the situation summed up well.
Unvote.
Vote Tiruin.
>_>
"...Really."
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Well, there are 4 people. Two are town, two are scum. At the moment I doubt SBC and Puff are a team because they've been at loggerheads for a while. Then again, this was the same logic that led me to believe you were town last game. You and Puff seem very shifty at the moment. Puff has been hunting targets that have seemed scummy, but for the wrong reasons. Makeinu and Luke both have seemed scummy, but for easily explainable and simple reasons, and the fact that Puff prevented an extension on D1 while at the same time trying to get lynched still seems fairly scummy to me. Then there's you. Despite having very few posts, you've come across as shifty to me. I can't exactly nailed down why, but you've been doing stuff like attacking SBC for a subject I brought up for instance. However, it's Pufferfish I think is more likely to be scum and possibly your scum partner. I think you being his scum partner more likely than makeinu and definitely more likely than SBC.So this is Persus' reason. It is lacking. "Doing stuff" is as nebulous as a subtle poke on someone being scum--something without conviction or concern, but I hold Persus with his word given how he explains himself there.
But if he's scum, do note that its a subtle tell he's giving out there. Lightly poking people then saying they're scummy for...reasons. [note the ellipsis].
Uh huh.
Also, you seem to agree that my few posts equal shifty without adding your own word? I've to ask Persus why he's being so lightheaded on that matter.
But you? You jump on and say 'HIS REASONS ARE MINE'. That's what I can glean as far as you say without saying quite anything. Now that's the start of a bandwagon if I ever did see one, to say crudely.
NL?Makeinu: I [sic] while back you said something about how you would have let the vote be tied if you knew it caused a NL. That wouldn't have been a good idea and would have caused at least two votes on you today, if not an immediate reaction. NL is fine if everyone agrees to it, but if not everyone agrees and someone cause it to happen, then they're usually attacked for being scum.
Yes, but if I had left my vote, then Luke would have caused the NL to happen by pulling his vote.
Good to know, however.
Let's put this into the mind: Are you fully believing Persus given your statement on 'he summed it up well'?
What if he's scum? What then?
Post by: Gentlefish on December 09, 2013, 01:59:37 am
Puffer:
-snip-
To be the 2nd person to jump onto a band wagon... usually is someone trying not to be noticed. That raises a red flag. Especially if the post doesn't include much information so that people skim over it. Yours did not. It was very short compared to your usual posts, and it addressed two people, Make and Luke. Two questions, and less pressuring on Makeinu. I would've skimmed over it if I wasn't looking for it.
Don't you think by killing a more scummy, More viable person... would've given you more information?
I was not bandwagoning. The reason I was on MakeInu's case was because he was quiet. He stopped being quiet and I moved on to Luke. Who, as you have now seen, while being the doctor made eight posts while he was still alive and playing.
And you wanted me to lynch EP, who ended up NK'd? It would have been nice maybe, if we lynched him and that caused a no-NK. But we learned from EP's death regardless, as you wanted.
Quote
QuoteThis. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.So you force our cop into not outing... basically making him totally useless. Why? Roleclaiming is a viable, and in fact very useful tactic in mafia. If only more people used it. I very do not like this sentence.
Puffer: Why do you think that it is such a bad tactic.
Too many scummy things has built up. I've already said how I didn't like some of his posts earlier, now it's gotten worse.
When you compare Luke and Squill... Wait you can't. It's two different people. Squill was actually active lurking, Luke was just gone... Probably asleep. I don't know why he didn't come check this. But I can't really. I don't stalk him. (Or maybe I do ;) ).
Why is it a bad tactic? Chances are he checked a town. if we lynch that town, by all means CLAIM. If he's still silent, he hasn't checked a scum, or maybe he even checked EP. An outing of the copguarantees his death in the game for no reason right now especially if he checked town and we don't lynch that suspect.
And yes you can ABSOLUTELY compare them. Both lurked. MakeInu said Luke was online while he wasn't posting so he wasn't just off the forums. If I remember right. And I will hunt down that post and correct myself if you as me to. But I'm pretty sure he said so.
PuffinpuffQuoteHe made eight posts. can you tell me how this was helpful to the town in ANY WAY except for the fact that he was town?Or they couldn't and everyone is town. Luke seemed like dead weight >_>
I can give you something, for sure. Two people voted on him. That means up to two of us who voted COULD be mafia. COULD.
What did you see in those eight posts?
I saw a threat, someone trying to go below the radar. Not the doctor he was.
Quote
QuoteCurrently SuperBlackCat is my number 1 scum. You're my number 2, tied with Tiruin.In which we are named, but where are the reasons?QuoteThis. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.Interesting. Why?
I do not want the cop to reveal himself yet. If he has scum, he wouldn't roleclaim to do so, he'd be tunneling with what he has so as to stay as much around as possible. He would try to convince others using what knowledge they have and not telling them to believe them based off of a PM he got from the moderator that he cannot share to prove his point.
Quote
QuoteAs in, what do I think others think of me?Yes. Basically.
and for the last question, are you referring to Luke or my current #1 scum pick, SBC? And what do you mean by easy-newbie scum?
As for the last question: Both, preferably, but I was talking about that blackkittycat, whom you had unvoted. Despite you saying there was 'suspicions' on him.
I mean easy-newbie scum as in those who flail around a lot. Those who..well, spit scumtells by the dozen. Who are too free-of-thought that their thought dwells more on WIFOM than of the bread and butter we subsist on as logic.
Well, I can tell Persus wants people to think I'm scum and that you're my partner and that SBC is hitching on for the ride.
As for why I say who but not why as to my scum picks, that's already changed, and Persus has become equal to SBC in my scumlist.
SBC has been dodgy this whole game, not answering why he's not quoting, and giving vague answers on anything he does bother to answer.
Persus has now made some interesting claims on you and SBC's hopped RIGHT on to those claims, as you have so eloquently put. And I mean that. You're very good with words. Right now, that ties Persus to SBC in my book.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 03:01:53 am
Right, so.
There are a limited number of possibilities for scum pairs left in the game. Mathematically, 5 players gives (5x4) 20 combinations, if we assume any of the remaining players are equally likely to be scum.
But we can't assume that. Two players know they are scum; three know they are Town. And it's only those three that have to make the calculations.
So here's mine. First, I eliminate myself, naturally.
There are two pairs I'll eliminate outright.
1) Superblackcat and Pufferfish.
2) Tiruin and Persus13.
In both cases, there's too much antagonism publicly. Unless there's a bus going by, I don't see both of either of those pairs being scum.
That leaves, then, only four other combinations:
1) Superblackcat and Tiruin.
2) Superblackcat and Persus13.
3) Pufferfish and Tiruin.
4) Pufferfish and Persus13.
Randomly choosing, there's a 1 in 4 chance of picking the scum pair. Randomly choosing, there's a 1 in 4 chance of picking a solo scum, which reduces choosing the scum pair in 1 in 2.
But we don't have to choose randomly. We can choose logically, and that's simplified by the first elimination round.
If both pairs eliminated cannot be scum together, then one is scum and one is town from each pair. All we have to do is pick the one from each pair that is scummier, through logic and inference.
So, pair one: Superblackcat and Pufferfish.
Between these two, who is acting scummier? My money was on Pufferfish D1, hands down, even though I had some strong feelings regarding Superblackcat's seeming evasion-by-way-of-not-quoting tactic of not answering or really asking any questions. He still quotes badly, but I keep getting this strong feeling of noob, not scum, in his methods and thinking.
Pufferfish, on the other hand, still gives me a lingering feeling of scum, and I can't quite put my finger on why. For one, trying too hard to keep the cop from coming forward. Now, he does have some good points, namely that if the cop's target last night was EP, and they weren't allowed to change targets, the cop coming forward doesn't do us any good. Statistically, that's a 1 in 6 chance; logically, there's no easily calculating it, because then you have to delve into the mind of the cop.
I can tell you what I would have done in those shoes. At the end of the day, it was safe to assume either EP or Luke was dead from lynch, so neither of those presented a good cop target. I would have eliminated them as choices and instead picked one of the vote-layers for either target. So, to my mind, it makes sense that the cop should come forward with his report, clearing or incriminating one of the remaining five.
With that logic, I have then to assume Pufferfish has thought similarly, and is concerned at what the cop will reveal. That seems scummy to me.
Pair two: Tiruin and Persus13.
Of these, I feel a simpler case can be made. Tiruin has been mostly evasive and accusatory in her responses. I don't know if that's her norm in these games, but it's coming across to me as a strong scum-tell right now, and that bothers me.
Persus13, on the other hand, has been clear and cogent in his responses, not accusatory. Again, norm? I don't know or care, but right now, I'm pulling a strong Town vibe.
So, my inclination, based on intuition and logic together, is that the scum pair is Pufferfish and Tiruin, and I'm voting accordingly.
There's one possibility I have left out, regarding Pufferfish and his advice to the cop staying silent: he's the cop, and he chose to follow EP last night, garnering no information that the flip didn't already reveal. I have left that out deliberately, because of his ever-changing reasons why the cop should stay silent. First, it's:
This. For this round, I'm considering anyone who roleclaims cop as instant, irredeemable scum.
Then, later, after being questioned why, it's devolved to this:
Why is it a bad tactic? Chances are he checked a town. if we lynch that town, by all means CLAIM. If he's still silent, he hasn't checked a scum, or maybe he even checked EP. An outing of the copguarantees his death in the game for no reason right now especially if he checked town and we don't lynch that suspect.
That doesn't strike me as a cop trying to hide. Maybe if he'd stuck to his guns when questioned, thus demonstrating in some way a willingness to counter-claim if a scum false-claimed cop, I'd believe that. I think instead that he considered that strategy and backed down from it under pressure, with nothing to back it up.
Tiruin: if I'm wrong, and we all vote according to my logic, then the Town loses. That's a risk every Town faces, that they get outsmarted by the scum. We sure outsmarted ourselves yesterday.
So give me a convincing case that I'm wrong. Please.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 08:00:41 am
Vote Count
------------------------
makeinu -
Persus13 - Tiruin
Pufferfish -Superblackcat, Persus13
Superblackcat - Pufferfish,
Tiruin - makeinu
Not Voting -
Day ends Monday 3 PM GMT. Those with roles, send me your actions via PM in the next 2 hours.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 09:57:33 am
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:03:02 am
The remaining theocrats jostle, shoving one another into the rain. Finally, two of them grabbed Greeter Pufferfish and shoved him out. The Greeter immediately set off at a brisk run and was soon obscured in the haze of blood. He almost certainly died and the rain continued, unabated.
Pufferfish was the town cop.
The others looked uneasily at one another before being plunged into darkeness with the setting suns. Planter Makeinu rushed to grab his things. In his satchel were lead seeds, his madcap plan was to lay a trail of plantations and shield himself beneath their leaves until he was out of the danger zone. He'd be damned if he was going to be killed over an impossibull. He got as far as the back base of the skull before being captured in Baker Persus 13's gingerbread net. As he scrambled in the netting in the dark, he briefly saw the three glowing eyes of Advocate Tiruin before she snapped his neck.
Makeinu was town.
The suns came up and the blood rain continued. Intoner Superblackcat quitely sang to himself to keep awake in the long night, hiding beneath the brow in the vast skull's left eye socket. As the sun came up he was powerless to stop the remaining heretics, Baker Persus 13 and Advocate Tiruin, from completing their rites of indifference. And as the clouds finally cleared the impossibull faded from possibility, and the heretics clumped off through the mud of the mabbling plains back to the Chambers, leaving the Intoner hidden in what was now a musty alcove of a ruined temple.
No one would believe him that there was ever such a thing as an Impossibull and there was no going back to the Chambers now. So he strode off in the other direction, singing the song of a beast that never was.
The Mafia has won. They were Tiruin and Persus 13
Deadchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Bb5gSjNKv4Lf)
Scumchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/7drUFC65pAZ)
Spoiler: Roles (click to show/hide)
NQT's tips for beginners:
- Never vote for yourself, that's idiotic
- Remember that distancing is a common scum tactic
- If you've got an important role and you're about to be lynched *always* claim before you die. It's likely someone else will be lynched instead
- When in doubt, lynch Tiruin
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 10:03:59 am
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:10:35 am
I knew Puff was the cop ever since he declared an ultimatum on that notion!
...
Was I evil? :/
Edit:
- When in doubt, lynch TiruinHey! Mean. xD
EditII:
I'm really wondering why Puff didn't claim. Intuition struck you out as a cop-suspect when you replied that one note on the extreme side of suspecting anyone else as scum. :3
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:13:28 am
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 10:13:52 am
Because something seemed wrong...
THE MAFIA DIDN'T STACK.
Yeah, I didn't
Yeah, We lost.
PPE:
Uh, it's hard to scum hunt with super short days. I'd say to make it a bit longer, and an upwards of two weeks.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:15:06 am
Of these, I feel a simpler case can be made. Tiruin has been mostly evasive and accusatory in her responses. I don't know if that's her norm in these games, but it's coming across to me as a strong scum-tell right now, and that bothers me.Not my norm at all! If you see someone being 'evasive' (I didn't really even see myself as being evasive..at all) then poke at it!
If the accusatory remarks look more like a smokescreen than an honest-to-goodness evaluation, then speak!
I'm mighty glad you caught the scumteam and said your case from a Town point of view that dislodging most ideas in this post would be hard to do. :D
SBC
DAMN IT! UHHARRGHHAHUHR!
I don't like this, Why has Mafia not stacked votes?I think you had some foresight here?
So, I'd say that was a success. Not in terms of town-play (poor scum-hunting ability is somewhat expected in a beginners game), but in that it was a brisk game that didn't take up people's lives for over a month on end.*Self-voting~...
>_>
Luke: Post-game debriefing. Why did you do that?
Edit:
I'm really in favor of this.
Uh, it's hard to scum hunt with super short days. I'd say to make it a bit longer, and an upwards of two weeks.Timezone difference + idea of lurking as a valid tactic over most conventional ideas (difference being No night, and rapid pace play)
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 10:19:09 am
I'm still hitting myself for not changing the vote.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:21:30 am
Under what ideas kept you from shifting your vote? If you were going to shift it, then who would it go to and why? What doubt was present? What cases did the others present that stopped you from doing what you wanted to do? (Do note that some of these questions are related to each other and can be answered in a single statement or so).
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:22:49 am
Tiruin: by the time I got that post all together, there wasn't time to press anymore. In retrospect, hindsight being 20/20, your not vote changing on D1 should have clued me in.
Pufferfish, why didn't you claim? Who had you checked?
Superblackcat, I'm used to very short (48 hours, no extends) days, so this pace felt good to me. The longer days seem to drag interminably to me.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:27:45 am
I really didn't like time and the extend limit in this case..prevented scumhunting.
...Ehh..perhaps we need to edit that note a bit more?
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 10:28:07 am
I probably woulda switched to you Tir Tir.
Uh, I dunno, it was a 5 minute think, and I wifomed myself back into not switching.
But Yeah, At that point. If I got about 20 more minutes, I should've been able to figure out who the mafia were just by... Looking...
Puffer isn't mafia, because mafia is voting a kill on puffer. (And if it's only 2 votes, Puffer and buddy (IF they were mafia) Woulda tied the votes and NLed).
Uh, MakeInU shouldn't be mafia, After all that's said and done, He really isn't like mafia.
Persus should be mafia, As the other person voting other than me, And no mafia stack, I'm going to guess he is.
And that leaves Tiruin. Well, It would've been a hard wifom. But I think i would've come to the conclusion that you were trying to distance yourself.
(But that's after the results were out).
Also, just a suggestion, to balance a 7/2 game, I suggest that the cop not be macho.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:31:51 am
I'm really in favor of this.It would hardly be a Sprint then would it? There are plenty of other mafia game modes where you play for longer stretches. If I was a player I'd have pushed for a Tiruin lynch simply for her low-suspicion count. The last person to vote is worthy of suspicion.Uh, it's hard to scum hunt with super short days. I'd say to make it a bit longer, and an upwards of two weeks.Timezone difference + idea of lurking as a valid tactic over most conventional ideas (difference being No night, and rapid pace play)
Also, this would have gone quite differently if Luke hadn't been so suicidal and both roles had claimed before letting themselves get lynched. Usually town players have slightly more self-preservation.
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 10:32:35 am
I really REALLY suggest non-macho cops.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:35:01 am
Also, this would have gone quite differently if Luke hadn't been so suicidal and both roles had claimed before letting themselves get lynched. Usually town players have slightly more self-preservation.
That really baffled me.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:36:58 am
Tiruin, Messing us up by voting your own partner! >: (Hey, he was scummy. >_>
Pufferfish, why didn't you claim? Who had you checked?He checked...Elephant_Parade. :/
I believe the reasons are already obvious?
Tiruin, Messing us up by voting your own partner! >: (Teehee~
I probably woulda switched to you Tir Tir.
Uh, I dunno, it was a 5 minute think, and I wifomed myself back into not switching.
But Yeah, At that point. If I got about 20 more minutes, I should've been able to figure out who the mafia were just by... Looking...
Puffer isn't mafia, because mafia is voting a kill on puffer. (And if it's only 2 votes, Puffer and buddy (IF they were mafia) Woulda tied the votes and NLed).
Uh, MakeInU shouldn't be mafia, After all that's said and done, He really isn't like mafia.
Persus should be mafia, As the other person voting other than me, And no mafia stack, I'm going to guess he is.
And that leaves Tiruin. Well, It would've been a hard wifom. But I think i would've come to the conclusion that you were trying to distance yourself.
(But that's after the results were out).
Also, just a suggestion, to balance a 7/2 game, I suggest that the cop not be macho.
That's quite an astute mark there little kitty cat. :))
Remember: Look back in thread to check for clues. Even the dead can still speak with their suspicions.
PPE: SBC/NQT
Yeah I-..erm, I only disagreed with what I just said after reading the deadchat..then it clicked. 'Why isn't there more than 20 pages in normal forum format...'I'm really in favor of this.It would hardly be a Sprint then would it? There are plenty of other mafia game modes where you play for longer stretches. If I was a player I'd have pushed for a Tiruin lynch simply for her low-suspicion count. The last person to vote is worthy of suspicion.Uh, it's hard to scum hunt with super short days. I'd say to make it a bit longer, and an upwards of two weeks.Timezone difference + idea of lurking as a valid tactic over most conventional ideas (difference being No night, and rapid pace play)
Also, this would have gone quite differently if Luke hadn't been so suicidal and both roles had claimed before letting themselves get lynched. Usually town players have slightly more self-preservation.
Also ouch. You're right there but..ouch. :<
Heh, no, just kidding. That's really true as a generality--last person to vote (ESPECIALLY AT LYLO) attracts suspicion--I wouldn't have used my ol' psychological method there. It would dishonor my tool and my name.
Uhh, If we are going to keep such short times (Which is bad for town)Mm? I like them with muscles. Keeps them thinking steel bounces off them. :P
I really REALLY suggest non-macho cops.
..However, this does seem like a valid option--t'would test the ability to fakeclaim perhaps?
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:38:05 am
Oh gods yes.Also, this would have gone quite differently if Luke hadn't been so suicidal and both roles had claimed before letting themselves get lynched. Usually town players have slightly more self-preservation.
That really baffled me.
The only logical way I could find--and as said during game--was that he was using it as a town-tell 'because self-preservation' and whatever.
I'd die (figuratively) before I see that as a rule or a theory, or even at least a positive thought.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:38:25 am
I really REALLY suggest non-macho cops.No. Cop-doctor combo is vulnerable to a gamebreaking strategy: the doctor protects whoever claims cop first and the cop leads town to an easy win. A sixth town player might work?
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:40:50 am
Wouldn't this test counter claiming as a valid strate-...I really REALLY suggest non-macho cops.No. Cop-doctor combo is vulnerable to a gamebreaking strategy: the doctor protects whoever claims cop first and the cop leads town to an easy win. A sixth town player might work?
Oh, right. In any non-LYLO situation..and given the fixed roles...
Consider my non-macho cop idea redacted.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:53:19 am
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:53:38 am
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:57:07 am
I'd consider possibly replacing the macho cop with a macho day cop to give town a bit of a headstart. But maybe someone else has a reason why that wouldn't work. We'd probably have to run this a few more times to know how pro-scum or town it is.Or get more input from observers. While there is a player factor in determining the results, there is also the role mix and how each player works their role.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:59:07 am
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 09, 2013, 11:02:02 am
Superblackcat, why couldn't you quote properly?
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 11:03:48 am
Darn it, Tiruin, as soon as I died I knew it was you. Were you afraid I was going to build on that last FoS?I..just didn't want Persus to kill who he initially chose to kill. I was looking forward to you, to be honest.
But then you died. :S
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 11:07:40 am
Either gives a buffer for the Town against a mislynch on D1.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 09, 2013, 12:29:48 pm
The reason I didn't claim, and I mentioned it, was that I checked goddamned Elephant Parade. And he was lynched.
I want more sprints this was awesome and already shorter than the single day I played in the other BM.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 12:39:12 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on December 09, 2013, 02:29:18 pm
There's a reason the cop is Macho, and that is because a non-macho cop will break a game also containing sensible players and a doctor. Yes, one could change the roles to something else, but cops and doctors are about as easy and as basic as you can get. I don't think the familiarity and ease-of-use factor is anything to sniff at.
But again, it's too early to call, in my opinion. This is just the first game, and we've managed to show that people can stick to it for a week and play with enthusiasm. That alone seems promising.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 09, 2013, 04:20:34 pm
NQT, I think everyone's fears here about the town being underpowered in Sprint games is too early to call. Besides, this was a game in which the playing IC was also part of the Mafia - I know, I know, that possibility is supposed to be there, but it doesn't happen often and could just as easily have skewed the game in favour of the Mafia. So could a host of other factors.
There's a reason the cop is Macho, and that is because a non-macho cop will break a game also containing sensible players and a doctor. Yes, one could change the roles to something else, but cops and doctors are about as easy and as basic as you can get. I don't think the familiarity and ease-of-use factor is anything to sniff at.
But again, it's too early to call, in my opinion. This is just the first game, and we've managed to show that people can stick to it for a week and play with enthusiasm. That alone seems promising.
Agreed. I think we need at least five more. ;D The sprints could really open up activity in this forum too, since everyone will know there's a hard limit on the days, and we can have more games to develop this forum's flavor of tells and traps and tactics.
Post by: mastahcheese on December 09, 2013, 04:27:52 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on December 09, 2013, 05:55:33 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 06:21:34 pm
Doctor Cop combo wouldn't work because of counter claiming?
Cop claims. Doctor protects each night. So long as Doctor lives, Cop can't be NK'd.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 09, 2013, 06:50:01 pm
> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM.If I were ICing I would've posted nothing but this in size 36 red text until the cop claimed. There's no point in keeping your identity secret if doing so makes the town lose.
For this setup, the following claiming rules can always be followed:
- Claim if you are about to be lynched
- Claim if it is lylo
- Claim if you know who the last mafia member is
- Don't claim if it's any other situation except mylo, which is a slightly grey area
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 09, 2013, 06:58:52 pm
Doctor Cop combo wouldn't work because of counter claiming?WHY CAN'T YOU QUOTE PROPERLY?
It has been driving me crazy. I need to know the answer.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 09, 2013, 07:01:11 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 09, 2013, 07:21:24 pm
Recommendation: It's always really interesting to read the scumchat and reread the game with it after a game.
Well played to the scum team! I really believed my own arguments at the end there were right. Turns out they were half-right.I was kind of aiming for that. My goal was to get other people to believe my notion of a Pufferfish and Tiruin scumteam and was one reason why I had voted Tiruin when she disappeared and kept my vote on her when she had returned. My reasoning was that if Puff got lynched it was game over, and if Tiruin got lynched I'd be able to convince people to lynch Puff. When Tiruin started voting me it just made it more believable. Thanks Tiruin!
I'd consider possibly replacing the macho cop with a macho day cop to give town a bit of a headstart. But maybe someone else has a reason why that wouldn't work. We'd probably have to run this a few more times to know how pro-scum or town it is.Maybe have the cop be able to inspect on N0 would give town an advantage. One thing I liked about the game was that there was no Scum IC. I feel that if an IC is mafia, you don't really need to worry about a Scum IC. Also one disadvantage was the two most experienced players were the ones who were scum.
Darn it, Tiruin, as soon as I died I knew it was you. Were you afraid I was going to build on that last FoS?Actually I'm the one who decided to kill you. Although, if it wasn't for a time mixup, Puff would have been the N1 night kill. I think it was better this way, though, cause I had a better case against Puff.
Wow damnit haha, I was going to switch my vote to Persus. I was convinced SBC and Persus were the scum-pair :PMy big worry and why I stopped defending SBC was because I was defending him and attacking you.
I enjoyed playing with you newer guys, Makeinu and Elephant. I hope you keep playing Mafia. I may have differences about scumhunting with Puff, but let's see what happens when I'm on the same team as you.
Post by: Gentlefish on December 09, 2013, 07:37:17 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on December 09, 2013, 08:14:01 pm
The reason for that is that I mistook Puffer's statement on the attack on claiming cops as a scum-tell, rather than a cop-tell (which I think others did, as well.)
And as for Tiruin, I thought she was scum because from the other games I've watched, she's usually a lot better about ICing, then this time around. Of course, you could chalk that up to this being a sprint game, but even with that, taking into account the amount Tiruin posted, I got the feeling that there should have been more.
So I would have accused Tiruin for a completely meta reason, that couldn't be justified within the game without it just looking like whining.
So I probably would have voted for Pufferfish, in the end.
I don't think I'd be very good at this game.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 08:21:22 pm
Well played to the scum team! I really believed my own arguments at the end there were right. Turns out they were half-right.I was kind of aiming for that. My goal was to get other people to believe my notion of a Pufferfish and Tiruin scumteam and was one reason why I had voted Tiruin when she disappeared and kept my vote on her when she had returned. My reasoning was that if Puff got lynched it was game over, and if Tiruin got lynched I'd be able to convince people to lynch Puff. When Tiruin started voting me it just made it more believable. Thanks Tiruin!
In retrospect, that's easy to see, but at the time, I had to take the antagonism at face value. Thinking it of distancing meant that I'd have to consider that with the others as well, and then I'n drunk on the WIFOM.
At least I settled on the actual scum in my pair when I voted. :P
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 08:24:17 pm
So I would have accused Tiruin for a completely meta reason, that couldn't be justified within the game without it just looking like whining.
Sometimes, unfortunately, meta is all you have to start probing with. The player's style just feels off, so you dig.
We have one player in the other games I play that refuses to lie or break promises unless she specifically announces that she's going to do so at the beginning of the game. She's a good mod, but a lousy player, in that her tells are completely obvious. If she's quiet, she's scum.
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 09, 2013, 08:34:05 pm
Well played to the scum team! I really believed my own arguments at the end there were right. Turns out they were half-right.I was kind of aiming for that. My goal was to get other people to believe my notion of a Pufferfish and Tiruin scumteam and was one reason why I had voted Tiruin when she disappeared and kept my vote on her when she had returned. My reasoning was that if Puff got lynched it was game over, and if Tiruin got lynched I'd be able to convince people to lynch Puff. When Tiruin started voting me it just made it more believable. Thanks Tiruin!
In retrospect, that's easy to see, but at the time, I had to take the antagonism at face value. Thinking it of distancing meant that I'd have to consider that with the others as well, and then I'n drunk on the WIFOM.
At least I settled on the actual scum in my pair when I voted. :P
Game's over. You can edit posts again.So I would have accused Tiruin for a completely meta reason, that couldn't be justified within the game without it just looking like whining.
Sometimes, unfortunately, meta is all you have to start probing with. The player's style just feels off, so you dig.
We have one player in the other games I play that refuses to lie or break promises unless she specifically announces that she's going to do so at the beginning of the game. She's a good mod, but a lousy player, in that her tells are completely obvious. If she's quiet, she's scum.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 09:49:26 pm
After thinking about this game some, I think the people I would have voted for if I were in would have been Pufferfish and Tiruin.Yeah, that's what I think too..
The reason for that is that I mistook Puffer's statement on the attack on claiming cops as a scum-tell, rather than a cop-tell (which I think others did, as well.)
And as for Tiruin, I thought she was scum because from the other games I've watched, she's usually a lot better about ICing, then this time around. Of course, you could chalk that up to this being a sprint game, but even with that, taking into account the amount Tiruin posted, I got the feeling that there should have been more.
I suck at IC'ing properly >_>> The cop SHOULD DARN WELL CLAIM.If I were ICing I would've posted nothing but this in size 36 red text until the cop claimed. There's no point in keeping your identity secret if doing so makes the town lose.
For this setup, the following claiming rules can always be followed:
- Claim if you are about to be lynched
- Claim if it is lylo
- Claim if you know who the last mafia member is
- Don't claim if it's any other situation except mylo, which is a slightly grey area
Post by: Persus13 on December 09, 2013, 10:04:56 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:08:34 pm
What's mylo?
Mislynch and lose. Up by two over the scum, lynch town, and the scum kill ties the numbers and wins the game. Possible for the Town to still end up in LyLo if the night kill fails.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:10:06 pm
Wherein my question still stands.What's mylo?
Mislynch and lose. Up by two over the scum, lynch town, and the scum kill ties the numbers and wins the game. Possible for the Town to still end up in LyLo if the night kill fails.
How in the world can that be MyLo? It was LYLO through and through, unless the scumteam decides to NOT kill.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:17:46 pm
How in the world can that be MyLo? It was LYLO through and through, unless the scumteam decides to NOT kill.
Scum team deciding not to kill isn't the only NK-fail scenario. Picking a target protected by the doctor, Bulletproof, et cetera. Some games I've played, the NK can be stopped by a roleblock, but that's very rare, and swingy.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:19:11 pm
Unless you were intentionally misleading? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.msg4816497;topicseen#msg4816497)
Post by: Persus13 on December 09, 2013, 10:44:58 pm
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:46:49 pm
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:48:27 pm
Still learning new slang.
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 10:50:21 pm
Tiruin the game's over you scum.
Baleted...
Post by: makeinu on December 09, 2013, 11:16:39 pm
Post by: Imp on December 10, 2013, 12:58:15 am
[Imp] had characteristics which resembles scumhunting.
...That's gotta be the second best compliment I've had yet because of any Mafia game 8) Vote Tiruin and Pufferfish for giving me warm fuzzies....
... But Persus13 gets the big prize, for this Scumchat comment...
Quote
Tiruin (reply 11):
"Ok I shouldn't be asking but I'll ask. Why SBC?"
Quote
Perses (reply 12):Yessss..... wow Persus! You seem to think a lot of me, in a game I wasn't even an active player in :P
"He seemed like a good player, although he didn't vote any scum last game. Maybe Imp would be a better target."
Post by: Imp on December 10, 2013, 01:09:38 am
I'm really in favor of this.It would hardly be a Sprint then would it? There are plenty of other mafia game modes where you play for longer stretches. If I was a player I'd have pushed for a Tiruin lynch simply for her low-suspicion count. The last person to vote is worthy of suspicion.Uh, it's hard to scum hunt with super short days. I'd say to make it a bit longer, and an upwards of two weeks.Timezone difference + idea of lurking as a valid tactic over most conventional ideas (difference being No night, and rapid pace play)
Also, this would have gone quite differently if Luke hadn't been so suicidal and both roles had claimed before letting themselves get lynched. Usually town players have slightly more self-preservation.
On more reflection, I think one of the best possible feelings to leave a newbie Mafia game with is 'wanting more'. I suspect that sprint Mafia games, though differently intimidating than the longer sort (and I hope not going to replace them entire) have a lot to offer most newbies, and that includes a desire for 'more' in that urge to want more time to scumhunt and talk things over. I suspect too, that being so extremely short, players may feel less invested in the game, and less attached to if they win or not - thus maybe less upset if they lose - either as Town or Mafia. Dunno! But that's my thoughts.
Post by: Luke_Prowler on December 10, 2013, 03:23:52 am
Post by: Leafsnail on December 11, 2013, 09:26:46 pm