I'm goINg to play this!
I'm not offended, but I'm not Catholic either, so I guess that doesn't really mean much.
I guess a fourth BM never hurt anyone.
IN
That reminds me: there should really be regular non-BM sprint games.I'm goINg to play this!
I'm not offended, but I'm not Catholic either, so I guess that doesn't really mean much.I guess a fourth BM never hurt anyone.
IN
I'm not sure you two are considered beginners anymore.
I'm goINg to play this!
I'm not offended, but I'm not Catholic either, so I guess that doesn't really mean much.I guess a fourth BM never hurt anyone.
IN
I'm not sure you two are considered beginners anymore.
I've played one Sprint and one normal game, and I didn't find see too much of a difference.I'm goINg to play this!
I'm not offended, but I'm not Catholic either, so I guess that doesn't really mean much.I guess a fourth BM never hurt anyone.
IN
I'm not sure you two are considered beginners anymore.
I'm a beginner at Sprints, since I've never played one before.
I've played one Sprint and one normal game, and I didn't find see too much of a difference.I'm goINg to play this!
I'm not offended, but I'm not Catholic either, so I guess that doesn't really mean much.I guess a fourth BM never hurt anyone.
IN
I'm not sure you two are considered beginners anymore.
I'm a beginner at Sprints, since I've never played one before.
I died N1 in the sprint, though, so I may not be qualified to hold an opinion.
Also, I think Sprint is intended for beginners, not people who are beginning Sprint.
Have you survived past Day 2 twice yet?
You could join my game...In.Crap, too late. Well, I tried...
You still interested in being in?In.Crap, too late. Well, I tried...
You can always be a replacement if you want.In. Why not. Never played Mafia before... should be interesting.
Nevermind...
Yes, why?You still interested in being in?In.Crap, too late. Well, I tried...
Because if TDS takes the IC slot we'll need another beginner.Yes, why?You still interested in being in?In.Crap, too late. Well, I tried...
Because if TDS takes the IC slot we'll need another beginner.Yes, why?You still interested in being in?In.Crap, too late. Well, I tried...
I think that means we're full, then?One spot still open now, waiting on the last beginner to realize it's open that they aren't in yet.
I think that means we're full, then?One spot still open now, waiting on the last beginner to realize it's open that they aren't in yet.
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)
Joke in.I think that means we're full, then?One spot still open now, waiting on the last beginner to realize it's open that they aren't in yet.
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)
To clarify, you sign up with a bold in.
Joke in.I think that means we're full, then?One spot still open now, waiting on the last beginner to realize it's open that they aren't in yet.
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)
You could always sign up for IC next game.
To clarify, you sign up with a bold in.
I honestly feel like I could handle more than one game, but I'm rapidly becoming not beginner I think.
Joke in.I think that means we're full, then?One spot still open now, waiting on the last beginner to realize it's open that they aren't in yet.
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)
To clarify, you sign up with a bold in.
I honestly feel like I could handle more than one game, but I'm rapidly becoming not beginner I think.
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)Oh. In.
You know you can edit your posts if the game hasn't started yet, right?
(Psst, GWG, tn5421, neither of you have officially signed up)Oh. In.
Looks like tn beat GWG. I'll start this in about 18 hours or so.Darn, GWG. You could join my game?....
out I've lost Internet access, sorry.
out I've lost Internet access, sorry.aw.
Oh.Hey. Lay off the cheese. Life happens. He doesn't need to explain himself to anyone.
So, what's up with the access loss? Not paying bills or something?
Oh.Hey. Lay off the cheese. Life happens. He doesn't need to explain himself to anyone.
So, what's up with the access loss? Not paying bills or something?
GWG, Scriptin, tn: You are all new to this. What do you think the best way to find scum (scumhunt) is?I just realized that pretty much all of the strategies I've used rely on being able to see people.
If I die, I will also give IC advice from beyond the grave from time to time. Anything outside of italics is in-character and it is up to you to decide if it is trustworthy....Wait, anything in italics is IC, but anything out of italics is in-character?
Everyone: Do you think scum or town will win? Why?Yes. Because that's the rules of the game.
There are Mafia games that involve Mafia, but this is not one of them.Huh?
Elephant Parade: Well, the way I see it, if we answer with an affirmative, we're under suspicion immediately. On one hand, saying town will win could be seen as being too enthusiastic and thus scum. Calling for a mafia win could be made out to say one supports such an occasion, flawed though that logic is. Not answering is yet another potential tell, since you could be said to be evasive."Every answer, or lack thereof, can be argued as a reason to suspect him. Therefore, I will suspect him."
Ultimately, the question is good to create tension and paranoia in game terms, though it may have just been intended purely to satisfy curiosity. :P
Fixed the problem. I said that more because you seemed to be confusing other people to think RP was required than you roleplaying.There are Mafia games that require Roleplay, but this is not one of them.Huh?
And what's the fun of playing a Cardinal trying to find the demon-possessed Cardinals, if you can't roleplay it?
tn5421: WTH are you talking about. I meant that the important thing was that we don't know which side's gonna do better or worse, not which roles there are. You know, the way you're doing things makes me suspicious of you, in all honesty. Now then, care to explain what you meant by that remark to me? I also find it suspicious about how you randomly picked me just because of my chosen name, but that's not important right now.
TDS: I was only angry since the vote just seemed completely random to me.I either stated or implied that my vote on you was random, but your reaction is convincing me that I should keep my vote where it is for now.
darkpaladin109: Having a vote made on you isn't quite reason to panic, especially if it's random. More than that, being lynched isn't the end of the game unless you're mafia. That said, I'd rather put pressure on an idle player than bandwagon for the moment.
Vote: Tawarochir
As soon as there was a hint that you were about to die, you panic. Why are you so scared to die?"How dare you not want people to lynch you!"
More than that, being lynched isn't the end of the game unless you're mafia.Um...it kinda is. For you, at least. And since there's more than one Mafia guy, the game's as over for them if they die as it is for a non-mafia person if they do.
GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset.You misunderstand me.
I'd also like to point out that there are only two mafia players. Thus, getting one of them makes the game much harder for the other. On the other hand, a townie doesn't risk the entire game for their team if they are lynched.There aren't that many more Townies, you know. And the "mafia" people are also going to be killing townies.
GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset.You misunderstand me.
1. When you die, you can't play anymore.
2. People playing this game wanted to play this game.
3. Therefore, people playing this game do not want to die.
Thus, your claim that it doesn't matter if a non-mafia gets lynched is...well...idiotic.
You misunderstand me.
1. When you die, you can't play anymore.
2. People playing this game wanted to play this game.
3. Therefore, people playing this game do not want to die.
Thus, your claim that it doesn't matter if a non-mafia gets lynched is...well...idiotic.
There aren't that many more Townies, you know. And the "mafia" people are also going to be killing townies.
Day will end today at 11:00 PM EST, or over 4 hours from now.
Votecount has not changed.
Tawarochir will be modkilled if he does not post by day end.
Please get in all actions to me by day end.
First, I'm pretty sure that the votecount has changed.Oh whoops, I thought I had already counted you and scripten's vote.
Second, can you try to find a replacement for Tawa? Otherwise, there's a fairly large chance that the town loses tomorrow morning (4/6 chance to mislynch (not counting Tawarochir, of course), 4/5 chance for the doctor to fail to protect the target, so 8/15 or 53.3% chance that the town loses by morning).
Also, if the game ends after this night, can we have a Beginner's Mafia Sprint 2.5 with the same set of players?
I'd be more active, but I don't have any questions to answer. I propably missed something, so remind me if I did.
Extend.Also, you should be asking questions, not just responding.
So, should we just ask random questions? I'm not sure that we ever left RVS.
Everyone: What do you think of D1 so far? Why haven't you been more active?
The fact that I'm asking an RVS question this late into the day is bad, but I don't really have much to comment on yet.
You're missing something important, and that is that people who are dead still win with whatever side they were on.
Were you unaware that dead players still win with their team?Is that all anyone cares about here in Mafia? Victory, however boring it is? Even if you don't participate in it?
However, I also have to take everything people say at more than face value.A cigar is typically just a cigar, not proof that the CIa is trying to assassinate you.
To be frank, and I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but I can't see any reason why wanting to keep playing matters to anyone except for the player who is at risk.Because when I see being someone wrong, I argue with them.
Anyway, this is all very fun and distracting, but I am still curious as to your reasoning for defending darkpaladin109. :PLess defending him, more attacking the assumption that [X] suggests that he's an evul mafiya!
Ugh. D1 is almost over, and we're barely even out of RVS. Are we even fully out of RVS?RVS?
Everyone: What do you think of D1 so far? Why haven't you been more active?Both can be answered with "It's been dull".
Also, you should be asking questions, not just responding.Alright, let me try one. I'll even go in-character.
Is that all anyone cares about here in Mafia? Victory, however boring it is? Even if you don't participate in it?No, but you should always help your team win, even if it makes the game somewhat less fun for you.
"Perhaps we can garner some clue from how each of us answers a question of the faith? To begin with...which was created first, the chicken or the egg?""The egg, of course. The first chicken must have hatched from an egg, even if the thing that created the egg wasn't exactly a chicken."
Is that all anyone cares about here in Mafia? Victory, however boring it is? Even if you don't participate in it?
A cigar is typically just a cigar, not proof that the CIa is trying to assassinate you.
"The egg, of course. The first chicken must have hatched from an egg, even if the thing that created the egg wasn't exactly a chicken."
QuoteIs that all anyone cares about here in Mafia? Victory, however boring it is? Even if you don't participate in it?No, but you should always help your team win, even if it makes the game somewhat less fun for you.
Quote"Perhaps we can garner some clue from how each of us answers a question of the faith? To begin with...which was created first, the chicken or the egg?""The egg, of course. The first chicken must have hatched from an egg, even if the thing that created the egg wasn't exactly a chicken."
My thoughts exactly. Also, there were non-chicken eggs before chickens.Well, duh. I think the question is implicitly referring to the chicken egg, though.
Well, excuse me for not being good at making up relevant questions.Everyone: What do you think of D1 so far? Why haven't you been more active?Also, you should be asking questions, not just responding.
So, GWG, what do you think of the no-nights system?
So, GWG, what do you think of the no-nights system?Tawrochir: Care to explain your absence?
And how does this tie to the original issue, which was based on "your team can win even if your die"?QuoteIs that all anyone cares about here in Mafia? Victory, however boring it is? Even if you don't participate in it?No, but you should always help your team win, even if it makes the game somewhat less fun for you.
I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. We can't all get gold stars for participation. Someone has to eventually get lynched, night-killed, or what-have-you. If it happens to be you, well, tough luck. It's a learning experience and, for some of us, it's the part that's fun and exciting.Someone has to be lynched, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone to not want it to be them, so that isn't any kind of proof that such a person is a Mafia.
Again, context of the game. A cigar is never just a cigar within Mafia. Even if it is.And you say I'm taking things too seriously. You're taking the game so seriously that it's going to screw with your ability to play the game!
So, GWG, what do you think of the no-nights system?It's...a system. I'm not sure how it's different than normal Mafia. I guess there's less of a delay between turns?
"Heresy! Everyone knows the chickens came first from the ground. Now I have my eye on you, Elephant Parade.""Chickens did not come from the ground, they came from God."
My thoughts exactly. Also, there were non-chicken eggs before chickens."Eggs from what, praytell? The fishes and fowl were the first living things God created."
And how does this tie to the original issue, which was based on "your team can win even if your die"?...How does it not tie in? I was saying that you should always help your team win, even if it leads to your death; that's because you win even if you die.
Someone has to be lynched, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone to not want it to be them, so that isn't any kind of proof that such a person is a Mafia.Normally, I'd say you're wrong, since most people know that as town, you shouldn't really worry about dying. I mean, it's best to survive, obviously, but it's more important to scumhunt than it is to defend yourself.
So, GWG, what do you think of the no-nights system?Tawrochir: Care to explain your absence?
Tawochir: Do you use the "show new replies" menu? If so, you should have been able to see it, since it stands out due to being pinned.So, GWG, what do you think of the no-nights system?Tawrochir: Care to explain your absence?
Forgot about the game until Perseus PM'ed me telling me I'd be modkilled if I didn't post by day's end.
GWG: I'd love to keep discussing this, but we're not going anywhere productive with this line of conversation. It's almost as if you're trying to stall for some reason.
Well, there's two things. First, you're back to implicitly saying that winning is more important than, say, having fun. Second, you're failing to explain how dying could help your team.QuoteAnd how does this tie to the original issue, which was based on "your team can win even if your die"?...How does it not tie in? I was saying that you should always help your team win, even if it leads to your death; that's because you win even if you die.
GWG: I'd love to keep discussing this, but we're not going anywhere productive with this line of conversation. It's almost as if you're trying to stall for some reason.Mostly because I'm trying to figure out if mafia games are ever any fun to play, or if they're always like this.
GWG: I'd love to keep discussing this, but we're not going anywhere productive with this line of conversation. It's almost as if you're trying to stall for some reason.Mostly because I'm trying to figure out if mafia games are ever any fun to play, or if they're always like this.
I find it very interesting that you're still voting darkpaladin, TheDarkStar. Personally, I think darkpaladin's defensiveness is just from him being a newbie (heck, as a newbie, he might not even know that surviving is much more important when you're mafia). Are you trying to get an innocent townie lynched? Because that's what it looks like to me.
Admittedly, darkpaladin's behavior has been somewhat suspicious.
I'll decide on unvoting when he responds. At this point, unvoting would mean tying the vote.He hasn't responded yet? Still probably a null tell, but he needs to respond.
Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.Bandwagoning for extremely vague reasons? Ahaha. You're new, but this is more suspicious than what darkpaladin has done. This reads as either a scum bussing or a scum bandwagoning to appear more town. Scripten. Not that it matters, what with half an hour left in the day. Care to explain what you find suspicious?
Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.
GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset. From what I've seen of other games, towns that have a lot of lone wolves don't fare so well. Keep in mind that the mafia have the ability to have private conversations, so they have much more liberty to put on a front. Sympathy, therefore, is really just another tool for them. On that note, you seem to have jumped in very quickly to defend darkpaladin109. That makes me feel like you two are working together. Do you have any defense against this?
Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.
Since there's a higher-than-average chance that I won't survive the night, I'm going to point out how scummy this is right now. He's basically voting for credit. Along with some previous posts, he doesn't play like town. An example:GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset. From what I've seen of other games, towns that have a lot of lone wolves don't fare so well. Keep in mind that the mafia have the ability to have private conversations, so they have much more liberty to put on a front. Sympathy, therefore, is really just another tool for them. On that note, you seem to have jumped in very quickly to defend darkpaladin109. That makes me feel like you two are working together. Do you have any defense against this?
Note how he says that it's bad that GWG is playing alone and that it's bad that GWG is not playing alone. See a problem?
I suggest inspecting him tonight (but if he's town, the Cop should stay silent).
PPE (pre-post edit): Ninja'd by Elephant, but I can now vote without causing a tie, so Scripten.
You found the votes, went over them, and posted this in one minute? Interesting. I think that Scripten is your scumbuddy, and you're trying to get town cred without actually lynching Scripten.Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.
Since there's a higher-than-average chance that I won't survive the night, I'm going to point out how scummy this is right now. He's basically voting for credit. Along with some previous posts, he doesn't play like town. An example:GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset. From what I've seen of other games, towns that have a lot of lone wolves don't fare so well. Keep in mind that the mafia have the ability to have private conversations, so they have much more liberty to put on a front. Sympathy, therefore, is really just another tool for them. On that note, you seem to have jumped in very quickly to defend darkpaladin109. That makes me feel like you two are working together. Do you have any defense against this?
Note how he says that it's bad that GWG is playing alone and that it's bad that GWG is not playing alone. See a problem?
I suggest inspecting him tonight (but if he's town, the Cop should stay silent).
PPE (pre-post edit): Ninja'd by Elephant, but I can now vote without causing a tie, so Scripten.
Oops, DarkPaladin, since I went over the votes again and realized that it was a tie. DP now has three votes on him vs one or zero on everyone else.
Okay, it's easily possible to do that in one minute if the forums are being nice. Still a bit odd, though.
Mmm. Either way, Scriptin is definitely my preferred lynch candidate tomorrow, unless something happens.Okay, it's easily possible to do that in one minute if the forums are being nice. Still a bit odd, though.
This is part of it. I also realized that I forgot to count Scriptin's vote in my votecounts.
Mmm. Either way, Scriptin is definitely my preferred lynch candidate tomorrow, unless something happens.Okay, it's easily possible to do that in one minute if the forums are being nice. Still a bit odd, though.
This is part of it. I also realized that I forgot to count Scriptin's vote in my votecounts.
Also, if the mafia kill me in an attempt to frame an innocent Scriptin, I am going to be so annoyed. Don't even think about it. I want to actually play more than one day this time.
Mmm. Either way, Scriptin is definitely my preferred lynch candidate tomorrow, unless something happens.Okay, it's easily possible to do that in one minute if the forums are being nice. Still a bit odd, though.
This is part of it. I also realized that I forgot to count Scriptin's vote in my votecounts.
Also, if the mafia kill me in an attempt to frame an innocent Scriptin, I am going to be so annoyed. Don't even think about it. I want to actually play more than one day this time.
It would probably be a good thing if the doctor protected one of us (without revealing himself and his target, of course).
Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.Bandwagoning for extremely vague reasons? Ahaha. You're new, but this is more suspicious than what darkpaladin has done. This reads as either a scum bussing or a scum bandwagoning to appear more town. Scripten. Not that it matters, what with half an hour left in the day. Care to explain what you find suspicious?
Sorry, darkpaladin, but I find your actions suspicious. I won't tip the scales, but I haven't seen any defense other than your being new. And, again, that could be said of many of us.
Since there's a higher-than-average chance that I won't survive the night, I'm going to point out how scummy this is right now. He's basically voting for credit. Along with some previous posts, he doesn't play like town. An example:GreatWyrmGold: Since mafia is a team game, playing as if it is a free-for-all is a dangerous (possibly scummy) mindset. From what I've seen of other games, towns that have a lot of lone wolves don't fare so well. Keep in mind that the mafia have the ability to have private conversations, so they have much more liberty to put on a front. Sympathy, therefore, is really just another tool for them. On that note, you seem to have jumped in very quickly to defend darkpaladin109. That makes me feel like you two are working together. Do you have any defense against this?
Note how he says that it's bad that GWG is playing alone and that it's bad that GWG is not playing alone. See a problem?
I'm dead Day 2. Again. Well, I guess I'll keep ICing.Unfortunately, Darkpaladin hasn't been active since ~3:30 default forum time.
If you are a power role, you should claim it if you are about to be lynched to not waste it.
This mafia game is set up differently from the usual in that it's faster with less players, so power roles have a much smaller effect. For a very different kind of game, play a role-heavy one like Paranormal or one of the games that has massive rule changes.I fail to see how larger player counts or any of that would change the fundamental nature of the game.
You found the votes, went over them, and posted this in one minute? Interesting.Alternatively, he remembered the votes.
Also, we are at LYLO. Please be active.LYLO? Did you miss the "Beginner's" in the title?
LYLO? Did you miss the "Beginner's" in the title?Oops, sorry. LYLO stands for Lynch or Lose. Since there are five players and two mafia members, a tie or mislynch will result in a loss for town.
Hey, where's that idiot who said that lynching a townsperson wouldn't really affect the town's chance of winning?That's not what I said. I said that focusing on scumhunting is more important than defending yourself, which is generally true. Not when you're the doctor and about to be lynched, obviously, but no (well, non-blatantly obvious, anyway) mafia advice is accurate 100% of the time.
Elephant Parade: You seem to be the most active right now. However, your post about the mafia killing you to frame me is a little suspicious. Were you trying to use that as a cover for night-killing TheDarkStar and framing me?...No? That's not a very open-ended question, you know. How did you expect me to respond?
Regarding scumhunting, the day1 lynch and night 1 nightkill are worth more than 10 pages of content. Generally people that lie or are evasive are more likely to be scum than forthright people.
Darkpaladin109: Incorrect. We can look at the setup. 2 scum vs 5 town. Town has a Doctor and a Macho Cop. We cannot rely on the Doctor to protect the Cop while he investigates people. The Cop is one of the lynchpin players. He gets investigation results each night.
This setup attempts to balance one of the C9 setups from ms.net by adding the Macho modifier to the cop, to prevent the gamebreaking combo of unkillable cop / hidden doctor without resorting to adding a Scum Rolecop as seen in F11, since that didn't work either.
@GreatWyrmGold: He said that roleplay is not required, not that it isn't allowed. It's also RVS still so relax.
Have you ever heard of RVS? It means to vote people for random reasons to get discussion going. And if you're getting mad at me for talking about the setup, get over it.
My bad. I should have used the word "accomplished" rather than "done." :P 'Twas more a joke than anything, with regard to the fact that after your... encounter, darkpaladin didn't really say anything at all. Still, I'd like to know where you stand now with regard to the rest of us. You haven't said much about anyone other than darkpaladin109, whom we now know was town.You should probably ask a question, as well.
Elephant Parade: Fair enough. I wanted to put that possibility out there before moving on. However, I have to say that I'm more than a little convinced that Tawarochir is scum. He's been practically silent, save for a short explanation and a single post during RVS.
Unvote Elephant Parade
Vote Tawarochir
My bad. I should have used the word "accomplished" rather than "done." :P 'Twas more a joke than anything, with regard to the fact that after your... encounter, darkpaladin didn't really say anything at all. Still, I'd like to know where you stand now with regard to the rest of us. You haven't said much about anyone other than darkpaladin109, whom we now know was town.Scripten: Going after lurkers is a scumtell, you know. Pressure voting them is fine, obviously, but as I said before, you didn't ask a question. You're supposed to give people a chance to defend themselves, after all.
Elephant Parade: Fair enough. I wanted to put that possibility out there before moving on. However, I have to say that I'm more than a little convinced that Tawarochir is scum. He's been practically silent, save for a short explanation and a single post during RVS.
Unvote Elephant Parade
Vote Tawarochir
Scripten: Going after lurkers is a scumtell, you know. Pressure voting them is fine, obviously, but as I said before, you didn't ask a question. You're supposed to give people a chance to defend themselves, after all.
Also, in response to the thing directed at me which I didn't notice until now because you didn't phrase it as a question: I'll give my reads. I don't have much, though. There hasn't been much activity.
GreatWyrmGold: You like to argue, and our discussion about darkpaladin's reaction to the initial vote never seemed to go anywhere. You've also made it clear that you don't like the idea of playing for the team. Still, I think you're town. Who do you think the mafia is?I don't mind playing for the team. I mind people saying that pointless death is perfectly okay.
GWG: You haven't really said anything of note since day 2 began. Where do you think each of us stand?I don't know. I would have thought darkpaladin, since he had reason to dislike TheDarkStar, but...he's not.
It's a rhetorical question.QuoteElephant Parade: You seem to be the most active right now. However, your post about the mafia killing you to frame me is a little suspicious. Were you trying to use that as a cover for night-killing TheDarkStar and framing me?...No? That's not a very open-ended question, you know. How did you expect me to respond?
@GWG: If the lynch had not been on the town doctor, there is a chance the scum kill would have been blocked.My point.
It's a rhetorical question.If you put someone's name in bold, it means you're trying to get their attention. When you do that, you're generally expected to ask them a question, since it's not very nice to waste someone's time.
Elephant Parade: I'll admit that I may not have phrased the question perfectly, but you did respond in enough capacity to justify asking it. What makes you feel like tn5421 is scum? He's the only one other than myself you seem to suspect.(I did try to respond to the question, yes. However, it really is best to just ask the question. For one thing, it forces them to respond; if I felt like it, I could've just said "no" and left it at that. Sure, you probably would've just asked me to explain, but it would've wasted valuable time.)
Okay. Wasn't sure since you'd placed a line between two names.
GWG: You haven't really said anything of note since day 2 began. Where do you think each of us stand?
Elephant Parade: I'll admit that I may not have phrased the question perfectly, but you did respond in enough capacity to justify asking it. What makes you feel like tn5421 is scum? He's the only one other than myself you seem to suspect.(I did try to respond to the question, yes. However, it really is best to just ask the question. For one thing, it forces them to respond; if I felt like it, I could've just said "no" and left it at that. Sure, you probably would've just asked me to explain, but it would've wasted valuable time.)
I'm not sure why I think tn5421 is scum. They just seem sort of off for some reason; it's mainly just their general playstyle. I think (?) they're from a different forum, though; that's probably part of it.
Sorry for the vagueness, but I honestly don't have anything else to say on the matter. They just seem a bit odd, which is why I didn't give a reason for me seeing them as scum. I plan to go back through their posts to see if I notice anything.
Day 2 will end in 2.5 hours at 11:00 PM ESTwhat is this I don't even
Votecount:
1. Elephant Parade {0}-
2. Tawarochir {1}- Scripten
3. GreatWyrmGold {0}-
4. Scriptin {0}-
5. tn5421 {0}-
I dunno, man. I don't even really want to play Mafia after getting a taste.what no
GreatWyrmGold for that reason.
For someone who claims to be able to read "scumtells" from even the slightest of screwups, you sure do suck at telling that I don't want to fucking play Mafia.I dunno, man. I don't even really want to play Mafia after getting a taste.what no
GreatWyrmGold for that reason.
Once you're in a game, you're expected to play to its conclusion. Pulling something like this will probably get you disliked on the mafia boards.
Although I feel like this is some kind of weird scum gambit. Not sure, though. It just seems kind of fake.
For someone who claims to be able to read "scumtells" from even the slightest of screwups, you sure do suck at telling that I don't want to fucking play Mafia.I dunno, man. I don't even really want to play Mafia after getting a taste.what no
GreatWyrmGold for that reason.
Once you're in a game, you're expected to play to its conclusion. Pulling something like this will probably get you disliked on the mafia boards.
Although I feel like this is some kind of weird scum gambit. Not sure, though. It just seems kind of fake.
But fine, have it your way. Elephant Parade, instead.
I dunno, man. I don't even really want to play Mafia after getting a taste.GreatWyrmGold for that reason.
Elephant has this condescending post thing going on, which scum prefer to use more than town.Do I seem condescending? If so, my apologies. I'm not trying to.
Tawarochir is way below acceptable bounds of activity, feels like he's trying to coast through the game without effort.
I'm iffy on Scripten, which is why he's right next to the line. I don't think he's scum but that doesn't mean he isn't a good faker.
GWG's frustration feels genuine to me.
I think my reasons for my rating are obvious.
@Scripten: I know, it sucks.
11:00 PM EST or less than 5 hours from now.Oh.
I've been told that going after lurkers is a scumtell...In my (limited) experience, damn near anything can be construed as a scumtell, short of having the GM inform everyone of what you are (and that only happens when you're too dead to care). Don't sweat it.
GreatWyrmGold: I don't think you're scum, but like Elephant Parade said earlier, this could also be a desperate gambit to escape suspicion. I really doubt it, though, so hopefully we can get you replaced with someone who's interested in playing. I'll be able to give reads on them if we end up having enough time to let them post first.If I was scum, I'd probably be less likely to suicide, neh?
Also, GWG's posts just seem off. Like, really off. I have never seen GWG use words like that. Never. it just seems like a badly faked post.Like what?
If this seriously isn't a gambit, please request replacement.We could try that, too.
Also, this has been a pretty awful game, in all honesty. I've played two games before this, and both of those were better. I recommend you stick around for another BM.Suggestion noted.
I still think he would normally play through to the end, though.Aye.
Perseus: GWG's odd thread-checking methods (he looks at individual subforums, not the New Replies list) mean that he may not remember this thread until the day is over. Could you send him a bump? Unless a certain amount of time needs to pass or whatever.I try to check Mafia fairly frequently, just in case.
The code for that is:QuoteIf this seriously isn't a gambit, please request replacement.We could try that, too.
[b]Request Replacement; [color=red]Unvote[/color][/b]With the latter part being more of a gesture of respect than not, but usually and normally done because replacements are assumed to be [nope not in game] in and only unless there is another replacement in the queue already.Alright, with the day ending in one hour, I'm going to switch my vote to where I know it will keep us playing....?
Unvote
Vote tn5421
I know you're mafia, even if I haven't figured out who your partner is yet. I know I'll be mafia killed tonight because of my knowledge. Hopefully Elephant Parade is town, because as of right now, he's the only other active, willing participant and I would love to see town win.
I'd have posted here earlier if I could. My main advice is DON'T CAUSE A TIE IN LYLO! Anything is better than that, since it means you lose for sure. Even if you're not sure, a lynch is better than no lynch.What the heck does LYLO mean, anyways?
Well, darn.
It was a good show, guys, but it looks like this is the end.
GreatWyrmGold: It's a shame that your first Bay 12 Mafia game was such a mess. Please remember, at least, that this was a BM, and a Sprint at that: the majority of players recognized that they didn't know what they're doing, and there was little time to learn. This is not representative of how Mafia is played throughout Bay 12, I assure you.^ +1 in agreement.
TheDarkStar: Please, in the future, when ICing, make sure you're active. Day 2 needed you quite a bit.
I was the cop. That's why I was playing strangely. I've never played before, and I was still figuring out the way roles would work. I checked tn5421 on night one via a hunch and I spent day two trying to figure out if Elephant Parade was scum or not. I was worried that if I let out my role, I'd be shot down before being able to get a lynch on tn5421. And the whole bit with GWG had me wondering if he was doing something, too. From the looks of scum chat, Tawarochir was actually inactive through most of the game.Fixed, although there isn't that much to see.
Also, dead chat isn't showing up. Both links are the same.
I was the cop. That's why I was playing strangely. I've never played before, and I was still figuring out the way roles would work. I checked tn5421 on night one via a hunch and I spent day two trying to figure out if Elephant Parade was scum or not. I was worried that if I let out my role, I'd be shot down before being able to get a lynch on tn5421. And the whole bit with GWG had me wondering if he was doing something, too. From the looks of scum chat, Tawarochir was actually inactive through most of the game.
Also, dead chat isn't showing up. Both links are the same.
I sort of claimed cop toward the end. With so many hiccups, I was worried that my claim wouldn't do much. Also, what was the actual, final vote? And what did we need to lynch? I thought it was majority of votes...
Sorry, a bit confused overall. Did I just not post in time?
Actually, don't just have the glossary in the OP. Have the entire Resources section of the BM OP in the BM Sprint OP.
The lack of that was one of the major reasons why this sprint went so poorly.
That was an addition to my advice for running future BM Sprint games. Normal BMs (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137322.0) have a "Resources and Guides" section in their OPs. Said section includes a glossary of common terms used in Mafia, guides on scumhunting, links to more helpful resources, and such. Terminology issues popped up quite often throughout the game (GreatWyrmGold, in particular, did not know the terminology and spent much of the game confused by it), and the rest of the information would have likely been helpful.Actually, don't just have the glossary in the OP. Have the entire Resources section of the BM OP in the BM Sprint OP.
The lack of that was one of the major reasons why this sprint went so poorly.
????
This seems like it might be a good idea.That was an addition to my advice for running future BM Sprint games. Normal BMs (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137322.0) have a "Resources and Guides" section in their OPs. Said section includes a glossary of common terms used in Mafia, guides on scumhunting, links to more helpful resources, and such. Terminology issues popped up quite often throughout the game (GreatWyrmGold, in particular, did not know the terminology and spent much of the game confused by it), and the rest of the information would have likely been helpful.Actually, don't just have the glossary in the OP. Have the entire Resources section of the BM OP in the BM Sprint OP.
The lack of that was one of the major reasons why this sprint went so poorly.
????
@Elephant: The thing about you being condescending was bullshit, but everything else was mostly the truth unless it talked about scumreads.I was wondering about that. What was that meant to accomplish, anyway? It seemed like a random attack, and you didn't follow it up with anything.
Activity needs to be high
I really did think GWG was scum, though. Huh.Seems to be a common enough opinion. The other Mafia game I'm in, I again avoided being scum but people think I am.
Also, does anyone else feel that Sprint games are slightly biased towards the mafia? It might be a bit too early to tell (only two games, and this one had major inactivity problems), but I think town needs a slight boost.Well, we could do a study. Might require a pretty big sample size, though...
You do not talk about ongoing games in other threads.I really did think GWG was scum, though. Huh.Seems to be a common enough opinion. The other Mafia game I'm in, I again avoided being scum but people think I am.
My thoughts?
"If anyone's reading this thread in that game, and they thought I was scum, they'd figure I was just lying anyways."
How?Like most things in Mafia, it depends. I don't think you were revealing too much information, but its a nicety to not talk about another game while its still in progress outside the game thread itself.
How?It rarely outright ruins games without the release of action-related information, but it can easily cause quite a bit of damage.
It rarely outright ruins games without the release of action-related information, but it can easily cause quite a bit of damage.*Not bloody much content in this case, since I've never claimed anything but innocence.
*If the poster is a participant in the game: it spreads game content out between multiple threads, it can be a way to get around the no night talking rule (like here), and it often (like here) weakens the divide between out-of-game behaviour (where there is an expectation of honesty) and in-game behaviour (where there is not).
*If the poster is not a participant in the game: Player actions can be influenced by the comments of a relatively unbiased, clearly non-scum observer more easily than by players who may be scum.
GWG, it doesn't matter what your reasons are, plainly stated.It rarely outright ruins games without the release of action-related information, but it can easily cause quite a bit of damage.*Not bloody much content in this case, since I've never claimed anything but innocence.
*If the poster is a participant in the game: it spreads game content out between multiple threads, it can be a way to get around the no night talking rule (like here), and it often (like here) weakens the divide between out-of-game behaviour (where there is an expectation of honesty) and in-game behaviour (where there is not).
*If the poster is not a participant in the game: Player actions can be influenced by the comments of a relatively unbiased, clearly non-scum observer more easily than by players who may be scum.
*So? It's not like a non-participant knows anything participants don't, or like there's any other reason to trust outsider judgement over one's own.
*So? It's not like a non-participant knows anything participants don't, or like there's any other reason to trust outsider judgement over one's own.Yeah, but if you think someone and makes a comment similar to another one that an outside observer made, and you doubt there has been contact between them then that could influence you to view that person as town.
"Even if it can logically have no effect on the other game, it's bad because it could ruin that game. Think with an open mind, buddy."
...
Right.
And emotional reactions are okay? Fine, I'm annoyed that everyone assumed I was a mafia even though I wasn't. Is that better?
It's acceptable to talk about it IRL as long as the person isn't a mafia player.In any game wherein the subjects are or may be influenced, that is. :p
Yes. :)) That is most acceptably better.How would I react? "He wants people to think he's a townie. If he's a townie, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get mislynched. If he was a mafia, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get lynched. No useful information can be derived."
Now you should've PROVED IT BY TRAIL OF FIRE AND WORD than just stating 'Oh no I'm town I'm town; why?!'
Because other townies don't know that, for one. Next: How would you treat someone playing the 'hey dudes I'm town' card? :v
Um, why? I don't see how.*So? It's not like a non-participant knows anything participants don't, or like there's any other reason to trust outsider judgement over one's own.Yeah, but if you think someone and makes a comment similar to another one that an outside observer made, and you doubt there has been contact between them then that could influence you to view that person as town.
Posts outside of game can be assumed to be true. Therefore, talking about the game outside of game while it is going on is not a good thing to do, because it introduces an outside aspect to the game.So, let me see if I understand.
Good, you got it.Yes. :)) That is most acceptably better.How would I react? "He wants people to think he's a townie. If he's a townie, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get mislynched. If he was a mafia, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get lynched. No useful information can be derived."
Now you should've PROVED IT BY TRAIL OF FIRE AND WORD than just stating 'Oh no I'm town I'm town; why?!'
Because other townies don't know that, for one. Next: How would you treat someone playing the 'hey dudes I'm town' card? :v
Null statement.
Aaand you lost it. :-\Um, why? I don't see how.*So? It's not like a non-participant knows anything participants don't, or like there's any other reason to trust outsider judgement over one's own.Yeah, but if you think someone and makes a comment similar to another one that an outside observer made, and you doubt there has been contact between them then that could influence you to view that person as town.
How do you even understand that.Posts outside of game can be assumed to be true. Therefore, talking about the game outside of game while it is going on is not a good thing to do, because it introduces an outside aspect to the game.So, let me see if I understand.
1. There is an unwritten rule that, if you talk about a game in some other thread, you should tell the truth.
2. To avoid spoilers from the above rule, there is an unwritten rule that you can't talk about other games until the one you're in is over.
Is this more or less correct?
Good, you got it.Glad you think so! Sadly, I suspect that your interpretation of me getting it is based on you not getting what I said.
It's like this: Comparison and Observation. It skews the thoughts of an onlooker as one side is familiar to him, and the other is not-yet both state [the same] similar things....
How do you even understand that.In other words, I shouldn't be able to understand that.
There is a wholly existent rule that you should not talk about an ongoing game you played in in another thread sans said thread's deadchat, if available. See: BAH POST. [Also no, the 'tell the truth part' as an attachment is wholly wrong--you should NOT talk about it. Period.]Why shouldn't I talk about it? You keep saying this, over and over. It's circular logic, and I've never seen the circle's beginning, yet you expect me to trust it.
2. See: Above. If the game is over, you may talk about it freely. That one is correct.
I...thought we explained it quite well back there. :x All those notes about people in other places and such.QuoteThere is a wholly existent rule that you should not talk about an ongoing game you played in in another thread sans said thread's deadchat, if available. See: BAH POST. [Also no, the 'tell the truth part' as an attachment is wholly wrong--you should NOT talk about it. Period.]Why shouldn't I talk about it? You keep saying this, over and over. It's circular logic, and I've never seen the circle's beginning, yet you expect me to trust it.
2. See: Above. If the game is over, you may talk about it freely. That one is correct.
Wat. How did you even parse 'shouldn't' from that o_oQuoteHow do you even understand that.In other words, I shouldn't be able to understand that.
Are you trying to insult me, or are you just not thinking before you hit post?
:'(QuoteIt's like this: Comparison and Observation. It skews the thoughts of an onlooker as one side is familiar to him, and the other is not-yet both state [the same] similar things....
I don't get how this connects to the question at hand. Saying something outside makes you more familiar to those inside, which significantly affects decisions? If so, wouldn't it be illogical to play mafia on forums where people know each other? In fact, since I'm fairly well-known and often-posting, and hence familiar to many, I probably stop playing mafia so my familiarity doesn't cause people to view my statements in a different light!
...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said.Good, you got it.Glad you think so! Sadly, I suspect that your interpretation of me getting it is based on you not getting what I said.
"Null statement" means that it's a statement that doesn't affect my perceptions at all (in this case, because it makes equally much sense no matter what the other player is).
GreatWyrmGold: Your post was largely harmless. However, the act of posting about active games outside of the games ranges anywhere from "largely harmless, but in poor taste" to "game-ruining."No, because you've never explained how it could be anything but harmless. How does it cause harm?
...
Is that good enough?
...QuoteWhy shouldn't I talk about it? You keep saying this, over and over. It's circular logic, and I've never seen the circle's beginning, yet you expect me to trust it.I...thought we explained it quite well back there. :x All those notes about people in other places and such.
"How do you understand that" implies that my understanding is an unexpected event.Wat. How did you even parse 'shouldn't' from that o_oQuoteHow do you even understand that.In other words, I shouldn't be able to understand that.
Are you trying to insult me, or are you just not thinking before you hit post?
I'm asking you how you understand that (but...sure. I hit the wrong key adjacent to the key in question >_>)
:'(This bodes well.
You're. Generalizing.You're asserting things without backing them up. Please back them up. How would any of those statements affect anything?
We're talking about the Mafia board. If you're dead in one thread--an ongoing game, and choose to speak about it IN ANOTHER THREAD, it is a bad thing if and unless you speak about it in an emotional context (ie Argghh if I wasn't dead there I'd...) with a literal cut off there for imagination to fill it in.
Now if you said something else like (I'm town in (this part)) and stuff along alignment [town/scum/{third-party}] then it'd be worse for those playing as you're basically spoiling other people who would look at said thread. Including any potential player.
...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said....How did you conclude that me saying "what people say in other threads doesn't matter" meant "he agrees with us that it's bad to talk in other threads! Yai!"
Alright, first: cut that passive aggressive carp....QuoteWhy shouldn't I talk about it? You keep saying this, over and over. It's circular logic, and I've never seen the circle's beginning, yet you expect me to trust it.I...thought we explained it quite well back there. :x All those notes about people in other places and such.
Great argument. "Our explanation was so good. How could you not have understood us?"
You're really good at accidentally calling people stupid, by the way.
"How do you understand that" implies that my understanding is an unexpected event.::) You're concluding without even detailing it.
Well, that explains that.
This bodes well.Bring on the Passive aggressive BS, kid. Bring on the teasing terms Mr Condescension.
Incidentally, that was sarcasm. You're coming off as a crybaby and someone who realizes they've lost, they can't come up with an answer, so they try to make their opponent feel bad for hurting their feelings.
]1. You are dead. Whatever knowledge you gained as a player in-game cannot be uttered unless in deadchat, if available or after game.
Let me put it this way. You'd be fine with me saying them in-thread, yes? So why is it any different if I post them here?
I seriously don't understand how you jump from statements to put conclusions to where they don't belong.Quote...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said....How did you conclude that me saying "what people say in other threads doesn't matter" meant "he agrees with us that it's bad to talk in other threads! Yai!"
...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said.Glad you think so! Sadly, I suspect that your interpretation of me getting it is based on you not getting what I said.Good, you got it.Yes. :)) That is most acceptably better.How would I react? "He wants people to think he's a townie. If he's a townie, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get mislynched. If he was a mafia, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get lynched. No useful information can be derived."
Now you should've PROVED IT BY TRAIL OF FIRE AND WORD than just stating 'Oh no I'm town I'm town; why?!'
Because other townies don't know that, for one. Next: How would you treat someone playing the 'hey dudes I'm town' card? :v
Null statement.
"Null statement" means that it's a statement that doesn't affect my perceptions at all (in this case, because it makes equally much sense no matter what the other player is).
Grab what we've explained and tell us what you don't understand. Just asking 'Why' doesn't specify the matter when it has been explained once.What I don't understand is something you've repeatedly asserted but never explained. Your request is granted later in the previous post.
::) You're concluding without even detailing it.Alright, how do you think I should have read that?
Just like how you concluded I "implied" that you shouldn't understand it. >_>
]Bring on the Passive aggressive BS, kid. Bring on the teasing terms Mr Condescension.I get a teeny bit frustrated after cycling between three arguments, largely with the same person, in two out of three with said person failing to see what is to me perfectly clear logic (and the third more understandable, but said person requires of me a task I thought impossible until very recently).
You should learn well that you aren't always right.
So I ask you now.
Drop that attitude.
1. You are dead. Whatever knowledge you gained as a player in-game cannot be uttered unless in deadchat, if available or after game.Last I checked, I hadn't died in that game and death would give me no special information if I had.
Because you take on your role as a player, and not you as a...well, you. Out of game.
If you throw an argument in the air, am I supposed to not expect it to come back down?I seriously don't understand how you jump from statements to put conclusions to where they don't belong.Quote...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said....How did you conclude that me saying "what people say in other threads doesn't matter" meant "he agrees with us that it's bad to talk in other threads! Yai!"
I was pointing that statement at:...That's basically what I'm saying. It's a null statement. You got the idea. :v I fully got what you said.Glad you think so! Sadly, I suspect that your interpretation of me getting it is based on you not getting what I said.Good, you got it.Yes. :)) That is most acceptably better.How would I react? "He wants people to think he's a townie. If he's a townie, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get mislynched. If he was a mafia, of course he'd want people to think he was a townie so he didn't get lynched. No useful information can be derived."
Now you should've PROVED IT BY TRAIL OF FIRE AND WORD than just stating 'Oh no I'm town I'm town; why?!'
Because other townies don't know that, for one. Next: How would you treat someone playing the 'hey dudes I'm town' card? :v
Null statement.
"Null statement" means that it's a statement that doesn't affect my perceptions at all (in this case, because it makes equally much sense no matter what the other player is).
Also, mentioning details out of game can really be harmful. For example, a dead mafia member complaining how Turuin was a terrible mafia partner, and that's why he's gotten lynched. Or perhaps mentioning how playing cop adds way more stress into a game, even if it is just a BM. See how this info could be game-ruining if you just told everyone about it? And in order to stop things such as this scenario from happening, there's a commonly established rule against talking about ANYTHING in other games, even harmless stuffStupid stuff like that? Sure. But...well...that's just dumb. It's like saying you can't discuss violence because of the possibility that someone would go into an overly-graphic explanation of murder, or saying that no one can use "the G word" out of fear of people starting arguments over religion.
Allow me to elaborate on my earlier argument. Here's an example.Before I comment, let me see if I understand the scenario correctly. Look above; are the posts in the correct threads?
[Thread A] Player A states "If C was scum, he wouldn't be taking this approach, I know, because I've played with him before."
Player B thinks "C and A might be both Mafia, but I'm not sure"
[Thread B] Player D on another ended Mafia game Player B and C are in is watching the first game and says "C doesn't act like this while scum. He's doing the same thing in the other mafia game."
Player B sees this and goes, "Okay, I'm on the wrong track. I'll go after Player E, instead of trying to lynch B and C"
Err...underlying details.Also, mentioning details out of game can really be harmful. For example, a dead mafia member complaining how Turuin was a terrible mafia partner, and that's why he's gotten lynched. Or perhaps mentioning how playing cop adds way more stress into a game, even if it is just a BM. See how this info could be game-ruining if you just told everyone about it? And in order to stop things such as this scenario from happening, there's a commonly established rule against talking about ANYTHING in other games, even harmless stuffStupid stuff like that? Sure. But...well...that's just dumb. It's like saying you can't discuss violence because of the possibility that someone would go into an overly-graphic explanation of murder, or saying that no one can use "the G word" out of fear of people starting arguments over religion.
Allow me to elaborate on my earlier argument. Here's an example.Before I comment, let me see if I understand the scenario correctly. Look above; are the posts in the correct threads?
[Thread A] Player A states "If C was scum, he wouldn't be taking this approach, I know, because I've played with him before."
Player B thinks "C and A might be both Mafia, but I'm not sure"
[Thread B] Player D on another ended Mafia game Player B and C are in is watching the first game and says "C doesn't act like this while scum. He's doing the same thing in the other mafia game."
Player B sees this and goes, "Okay, I'm on the wrong track. I'll go after Player E, instead of trying to lynch B and C"
Yes, stupid stuff like that. Surely somehow, somewhere through your lifelong travels you've found someone that was stupid. Rules aren't usually made for people that are smart, GWG. Rules are usually made to stop stupid people from doing stupid things. Or smart people from doing stupid things. Stopping at a four way stop, regardless of how busy it is, is still a rule. Even when there's absolutely no traffic, this is a rule. Now why would this be? Oh yeah, to stop people from doing stupid stuff. Letting someone choose individually when they will and will not run a stop sign is obviously a horrendous idea, because eventually they'd make the stupid decision and go when other cars are going. This mafia rule runs under the same principle. It would be amazing if no one ever made a mistake ever, and could post extensively about other ongoing games without harming and game ever. But that wouldn't happen. And since games would be harmed, because people are stupid, there has been a rule that prevents the talking about other games, even if it could be harmlessAlso, mentioning details out of game can really be harmful. For example, a dead mafia member complaining how Turuin was a terrible mafia partner, and that's why he's gotten lynched. Or perhaps mentioning how playing cop adds way more stress into a game, even if it is just a BM. See how this info could be game-ruining if you just told everyone about it? And in order to stop things such as this scenario from happening, there's a commonly established rule against talking about ANYTHING in other games, even harmless stuffStupid stuff like that?
I've to ask: Why are those scenarios related to what we're giving there? That's in a Mafia context (and not real world context, your examples are good proofs of silly and...ugh-y ideas though :D) wherein when you play in a Mafia game--you assume the role and alignment you have and will be treated as such.1. They're analogies.
Liek Toaster said: In-game, dagger behind. Out of game, dagger in front.And why is that?
;D
Alright. So, you're telling me that D saying C doesn't act like scum in game A, while in game B, is going to convince player B that player C is scum in game A. Correct?Allow me to elaborate on my earlier argument. Here's an example.Before I comment, let me see if I understand the scenario correctly. Look above; are the posts in the correct threads?
[Thread A] Player A states "If C was scum, he wouldn't be taking this approach, I know, because I've played with him before."
Player B thinks "C and A might be both Mafia, but I'm not sure"
[Thread B] Player D on another ended Mafia game Player B and C are in is watching the first game and says "C doesn't act like this while scum. He's doing the same thing in the other mafia game."
Player B sees this and goes, "Okay, I'm on the wrong track. I'll go after Player E, instead of trying to lynch B and C"
(/quote)
Yes.
Yes, stupid stuff like that. Surely somehow, somewhere through your lifelong travels you've found someone that was stupid. Rules aren't usually made for people that are smart, GWG. Rules are usually made to stop stupid people from doing stupid things. Or smart people from doing stupid things. Stopping at a four way stop, regardless of how busy it is, is still a rule. Even when there's absolutely no traffic, this is a rule. Now why would this be? Oh yeah, to stop people from doing stupid stuff. Letting someone choose individually when they will and will not run a stop sign is obviously a horrendous idea, because eventually they'd make the stupid decision and go when other cars are going. This mafia rule runs under the same principle. It would be amazing if no one ever made a mistake ever, and could post extensively about other ongoing games without harming and game ever. But that wouldn't happen. And since games would be harmed, because people are stupid, there has been a rule that prevents the talking about other games, even if it could be harmlessThere's a difference between making people stop at four-way stop signs to protect peoples' lives, and making them stop at all intersections, no matter where they are, when all that's on the line is the possibility of theoretically having your perceptions influenced, which affects only a game.
There's a difference between making people stop at four-way stop signs to protect peoples' lives, and making them stop at all intersections, no matter where they are, when all that's on the line is the possibility of theoretically having your perceptions influenced, which affects only a game.Of course people don't have to stop at all intersections. But if you pay close attention, you'll notice that all intersections will have specific rules detailing how you should drive through them. Every single one. I'm not even kidding you right now. Think about this... Even IF it isn't a four way stop intersection, people still have laws to obey about that intersection. What a novel idea. So yes, you are being made to stop at certain intersections, or not talk about certain mafia games. But you are allowed to drive through some intersections, or talk about some mafia games. For example, feel free to talk about every single mafia game that's ever been completed. The only request is that you don't talk about the few ones going on right now. Seems reasonable.
You have given examples of how talking out-of-game can be bad. I can give examples of how owning steak knives can be bad. Should we outlaw steak knives, just because someone might go on a murder frenzy with them?For example, you attempt to use an obtuse analogy to justify your position. (as pointed out by Jack A T) It also tends to lead to more fallacious reasoning and faulty analogies as well. For example, I can give you examples of how giving semi-automatic assault rifles to elementary students is can be good. Does that mean that we should give every small child an assault rifle just because it might help someone? Of course not, and the whole premise is a fallacy as well. Assault rifles, and steak knives, are significantly different then talking about an ongoing mafia game. So different, in fact, that it removes most validity from any comparison.
Plus, I'm doubtful of the non-players argument, since you said earlier that it's okay to talk about Mafia games with people out-of-forum. I also doubt the likeliness, effect, and/or prevalence of the kinds of things you claimed would ruin the game.I did not say that. What I actually did was link to a mafiascum rules post that said very clearly that there are no exceptions to this rule.
Recently we have had a spate of people discussing ongoing games. Though this has led to a record number of ongoing game bans, there may be a perception that there is some wiggle room when it comes to discussing ongoing games. This post is to tell you that there is not.I'm not interested in arguing about the unrelated points or flawed analogies you are trying to push. I have provided clear examples of cases where it has hurt games. If you followed that link to mafiascum you could find a myriad of cases where it genuinely has hurt games. It provides zero benefit to games. Therefore it is banned, and there is nothing else to discuss.
It does not matter if you are dead.
It does not matter if you don't think it will affect a game.
It does not matter if you aren't in the game.
It does not matter if you are posting about a game taking place on another forum or posting about an MS game on another forum.
It does not matter if you are moderating the game in question.
Discussing ongoing games by quoting or otherwise referring to an ongoing game is forbidden. There is no clever way around this rule. Don't try.
Difference: steak knives have a potential beneficial effect, and are primarily used in positive ways.There are also laws against the negative uses of steak knives. That's all I'm recommending; instead of banning steak knives, ban stabbing people with them.
Of course people don't have to stop at all intersections. But if you pay close attention, you'll notice that all intersections will have specific rules detailing how you should drive through them. Every single one. I'm not even kidding you right now. Think about this... Even IF it isn't a four way stop intersection, people still have laws to obey about that intersection. What a novel idea. So yes, you are being made to stop at certain intersections, or not talk about certain mafia games...No. I'm not being allowed to talk about any ongoing mafia games, analogous to stopping at every intersection in my analogy. Some kinds of talking are bad. Some are not.
And by the way, please stop using faulty analogies. There's a reason that's a fallacy.Start explaining why my analogies are faulty.
For example, you attempt to use an obtuse analogy to justify your position. (as pointed out by Jack A T) It also tends to lead to more fallacious reasoning and faulty analogies as well. For example, I can give you examples of how giving semi-automatic assault rifles to elementary students is can be good. Does that mean that we should give every small child an assault rifle just because it might help someone? Of course not, and the whole premise is a fallacy as well. Assault rifles, and steak knives, are significantly different then talking about an ongoing mafia game. So different, in fact, that it removes most validity from any comparison.Wait. You're telling me to not use faulty analogies, which you hammer in by...comparing my analogies to something completely different. Why?
I wonder if we can all get this to the banter and OOQ thread.Well excuse me for not wanting to argue with you idiots so much that I spend 15 mintues on the perfect analogy. Why am I bothering? You're all zealots. Whatever mafia always thinks is right. Doesn't matter if it's this, or scumtells, or anything. I'm out.
GWG, Please use relevant and pertinent analogies to explain your thought process, unless those are exactly what you think of it, because they're off rails most of the time :-\
*sigh*I wonder if we can all get this to the banter and OOQ thread.Well excuse me for not wanting to argue with you idiots so much that I spend 15 mintues on the perfect analogy. Why am I bothering? You're all zealots. Whatever mafia always thinks is right. Doesn't matter if it's this, or scumtells, or anything. I'm out.
GWG, Please use relevant and pertinent analogies to explain your thought process, unless those are exactly what you think of it, because they're off rails most of the time :-\
Like this! Bloody hell GWG. Do you even care to read or remember what we're talking about?Of course people don't have to stop at all intersections. But if you pay close attention, you'll notice that all intersections will have specific rules detailing how you should drive through them. Every single one. I'm not even kidding you right now. Think about this... Even IF it isn't a four way stop intersection, people still have laws to obey about that intersection. What a novel idea. So yes, you are being made to stop at certain intersections, or not talk about certain mafia games...No. I'm not being allowed to talk about any ongoing mafia games, analogous to stopping at every intersection in my analogy. Some kinds of talking are bad. Some are not.
Replace please. I have no time to play Mafia atm.The game ended a while ago.
@Elephant: The thing about you being condescending was bullshit, but everything else was mostly the truth unless it talked about scumreads.I was wondering about that. What was that meant to accomplish, anyway? It seemed like a random attack, and you didn't follow it up with anything.