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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: MaskedMiner on May 10, 2014, 09:13:10 am

Title: Endless Legend
Post by: MaskedMiner on May 10, 2014, 09:13:10 am
http://g2g.amplitude-studios.com/Games/Endless-Legend

If name happens you remind you something, then you might have guessed that its fantasy(well kind of. Its set in same universe so its not really "magic") spin off of scifi 4x known as Endless Space. Its basically kinda like Master of Magic to Master of Orion I guess.

I was considering posting about this on Endless Space thread, but last post in that thread is over year ago <_<
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: aristabulus on May 10, 2014, 10:54:31 am
Yeah, it should have a separate topic.  The Amplitude people have basically said that they're done fiddling with Endless Space.

Aside from the brace of announcement-repeaters last summer when the was declared, and again when they got on Early Access a few weeks ago, I've only seen one article of any depth; over at SpaceSector (http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2014/04/endless-legend-early-access-available-and-brief-impressions/).  There's also a nice stack of screenshots @ SS, more than what's on the Early Access page @ Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/289130/).

As for the game itself...  The art direction looks nice, but I don't see anything that truly stands out yet.  The UI is about what you'd expect from a modern strategy title.  It seems that the 3-card combat system from ES got recycled; whether that's just a placeholder for alpha or part of the final design, who knows.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Aklyon on May 10, 2014, 11:11:22 am
As for the game itself...  The art direction looks nice, but I don't see anything that truly stands out yet.
Isn't that what doomed Endless Space?
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: aristabulus on May 10, 2014, 11:57:56 am
Isn't that what doomed Endless Space?

I think the thing that doomed ES more than anything was the fundamentally broken tech trees, with an honourable mention for the forced load of the combat screen to run away or autofight in earlier versions.

Personally, I don't need the art style to be its own unique little snowflake...  it just needs to work with the other parts.  My best example of doing it wrong is Superbrothers: Swords and Sworcery EP.  They made a light adventure game, but skinned it with a pixellated "LOL, RETRO" style that just gets under my skin.  (also criminally short for the asking price @ release... 900-number phone sex would've been cheaper)

But, as I said.... time will tell.  It's barely an alpha at this point.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: MaskedMiner on May 10, 2014, 12:38:18 pm
Still, for pre-alpha game its surprisingly playable and stable. AI is currently horrible, but otherwise it could almost(with emphasis, its still obviously very unfinished game) for a complete indie game or something.

I don't know much about Endless Space's success or lack of it since I only found about it while ago. I love Master of Orion so it was something I had to get. And I was curious about the "Community votes features" aspect...

I gotta admit that I'm little disappointed by that since it seems devs aren't really that professional when it comes making polls <_< I took part in on going faction creation contest for Endless Legend, but since poll is one huge 99 choice poll were only three with most votes are selected for next vote... Yeah. I had unlucky of being number 41 so my entry is largely unnoticed. I was planning on marketing my idea to raise people's awareness of it, but as it turns out, I find that to be too scary to do...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Levi on May 10, 2014, 06:09:10 pm
I don't have a lot of faith in this.  They never bothered to get multiplayer working well in endless space.  Desync's and corrupted save files galore.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on May 11, 2014, 07:40:42 pm
I'm very excited - I personally loved Endless Space and I'm not sure where all the negativity towards it came from (other than the forced loading mentioned before).
As far as multiplayer, these games are pretty much geared towards single player, and so I don't blame them for not trying too hard with the multiplayer although the one time I did do it it worked out ok. They listened very hard to the user base and even had the games2gether thing for deciding on future improvements which seemed nice. The art style is functional and pretty good compared to most 4x games, and the races/factions at least moderately believable/interesting.

Overall, I've got great faith in them, and I'm convinced they'll do something good with it although nothing they've really said has made me think it's completely revolutionary.

PTW


 
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: rumpel on June 02, 2014, 02:02:51 am
Is anyone playing it? How is it?
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: PanH on June 03, 2014, 01:50:02 pm
I'm playing it, and I like it, but it's pretty unfinished (AI and a lot of things are not done yet).
The visual style is as nice as ES one, the world is more interesting.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Astral on June 03, 2014, 02:12:24 pm
I'm sorta sad that they updated a lot in Endless Space, then quit, after all the large mods were put on hiatus for not wanting to change anything, as apparently the structure that enables modding can be very finnicky when it comes to changes, being in .xml.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on June 03, 2014, 02:28:16 pm
I'm sorta sad that they updated a lot in Endless Space, then quit, after all the large mods were put on hiatus for not wanting to change anything, as apparently the structure that enables modding can be very finnicky when it comes to changes, being in .xml.

As much as I loved Endless Space, I think they kinda got everything they could out of it, there wasn't much more that I could think of that would have been a major improvement without something really drastic which would have taken a lot of work.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Majestic7 on September 19, 2014, 03:37:51 am
Endless Legend is out now.

I've been playing it in Early Access for a while. I think it has nice atmosphere and several interesting mechanics, but the diplomacy is bland. It is weird they didn't do anything about it, since it was bland in Endless Space too. I guess that is my number one issue. The other is that the initial location you spawn in matters too much, especially with a couple of factions. For example, with the Necrophages, if you start in a food rich enviroment, you will rock. If you start in wastelands, you will suck. This is especially true for AI that can't adapt the way human player can. Not to even mention enviroment-specific bonuses some factions have. Yay, my people fare well in deserts, but we start in icy wasteland...

I hope the creators fix these issues. In addition, I'd really like there to be random events and such, now the game is a little too predictive. Buying generic heroes from a hero market is likewise bland and boring; heroes should appear through events or something. Now they lack personality completely, as they don't even have unique abilities.

Despite these complaints, I think Endless Legend is the best fantasy strategy of those that have come out recently (Warlock II, Age of Wonders III, some niche games like Eador). There are interesting, unique things like the cycle of winters that keep getting longer and worse (Game of Thrones mod anyone?) as the game progresses. All factions have some unique tweaks which make their strategies subtly different.

If you have an itch for fantasy 4X, I recommed EL verry muchos. 
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Myroc on September 19, 2014, 04:47:49 am
I'm sorta sad that they updated a lot in Endless Space, then quit, after all the large mods were put on hiatus for not wanting to change anything, as apparently the structure that enables modding can be very finnicky when it comes to changes, being in .xml.
Official word from Amplitude was that they put off updating Endless Space so they could focus on Legend and DotE, and that they wanted to do at least one semi-big update for Endless Space after Legend was fully released. The real question is whether or not they are going to follow through with it.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Neonivek on September 19, 2014, 06:28:05 am
Quote
some niche games like Eador

I kind of put that in a different category. As I wouldn't compare Heroes of Might and Magic with Master of Magic.

Though yeah Warlock 2 stunk! (SORT OF... though yeah).

But Given I havn't played Age of Wonders 3...

This is so far not very high praise.

By the way is the endless of "Endless Legend" mean anything? or did they just add endless?
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Majestic7 on September 19, 2014, 07:11:52 am
I actually liked Warlock 2, just...not enough.

Endless points to the species in the Endless Space, transcended ancients who destroyed each other in a civil war between those who uploaded themselves into computers and those who perfected their physical bodies. They left behind nanostuff called Dust, which is the currency in the game, explaining how you can use it to finish building something instantly. (Just throw more nanostuff at it.)

Endless Legend takes place in the same universe, before the Endless Space. Humans crashlanded on the planet at some point and split into various factions, plus been mutated by Dust. Then there are left a few constructs of the Endless who are brainwashing people to worship them (the Cult of Eternal Ending), parasitic xenomorph-style indigineous aliens (who I take are the ancestors of the space locusts in Endless Space), dead human survivors with their minds immersed in their space suits and...umm... dragons. Dragons supposedly being former servants of the Endless.

The "magic" in the game is basically learning how to use technology left behind the Endless or manipulating Dust to do nanostuff. Heroes are people who have been immersed in raw Dust and instead of being disassembled (what happens to most people exposed), the Dust has integrated in their bodies on a cellular level, making them nearly immortal superheroes. (If their bodies are destroyed, Dust eventually reassembles them again.) 
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Neonivek on September 19, 2014, 07:19:56 am
Hence why I said... sort of... It mostly a huge aggravating disappointment for anyone who owns the first.

Also that is actually a pretty interesting backstory. I was just worried they were adding "endless" for no reason (afterall an "endless legend" is a legend that goes on forever) but apparently it connects directly to endless space.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Majestic7 on September 19, 2014, 07:24:52 am
Yeah, Legend of the Endless would be more accurate, since several of the factions are ignorant of the past, trying to find out what is going on by deciphering vague myths. Every faction has a specific chain of "faction quests", which are not necessary to follow. However, if you do follow them, you gain extra benefits and playing them to the end point is one way to win.

Faction quest chains are partially dynamic, I've seen different things pop up as the first quest for the same faction, for example. They all tell a story though, explaining more about the background. So I didn't tell everything to not spoil anything. The quests are pretty different - one faction wants to eat everybody, another is looking to build a multinational federation, a third is digging through the ruins for secrets, a fourth wants to destroy every trace of the endless having ever existed etc.

I don't know if AI heroes follow faction quests, but at least they seem to receive and do ordinary quests, based on my observations.

Edit: I thought Warlock I was boring, I found Warlock II a lot better...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: amjh on September 19, 2014, 05:45:44 pm
Spoiler: story spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: i2amroy on September 19, 2014, 08:21:10 pm
I've been playing this an it's been tons of fun, definitely worth the money in my opinion. There are still some problems, but so far they have been pretty good at fixing them, and the devs have encouraged thinking of this as more a "version gold" than a "final release", (the release time being more to allow them to get around the upcoming civ game than because the game is totally finished as I understand it).

And on that note the current temporal game progression story wise is Dungeon of the Endless -> Endless Legend -> Endless Space, and you even can see some carry overs between games (one of the heroes from DotE shows up again in EL, for example).

That said if you like the idea I highly suggest purchasing it and then hitting up the amplitude forums, since they have done a very good job of incorporating various suggestion and balance ideas from the playerbase.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Niveras on September 19, 2014, 09:16:19 pm
I forget how ES worked, but if EL is more 4X than it is tactical, are you able to build a tall empire versus broad? Biggest problem I've had so far with the latest TBS-empire games (Warlock, Eador, AoWIII) is the fixed production queues. The builder style is my preferred way to go but with everything taking the same amount of turns regardless of how established your city is, it makes being efficient in this way impossible. (Well, AoWIII had a bit of production variability, and Eador was one-turn-for-everything-if-you-can-afford-it.)

Though I never did get used to ES. The AI would always manage to outbuild, outtech, and outexpand me, even on the lower difficulties. Not sure if that's because a builder strategy is dumb in ES, or if it was a legitimate problem with the AI. Anyway, I probably wouldn't fare any better in EL.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Fikes on September 20, 2014, 03:09:48 am
I forget how ES worked, but if EL is more 4X than it is tactical, are you able to build a tall empire versus broad? Biggest problem I've had so far with the latest TBS-empire games (Warlock, Eador, AoWIII) is the fixed production queues. The builder style is my preferred way to go but with everything taking the same amount of turns regardless of how established your city is, it makes being efficient in this way impossible. (Well, AoWIII had a bit of production variability, and Eador was one-turn-for-everything-if-you-can-afford-it.)

I don't think I understand. In every 4X game I have played, more established cities produce way faster. In most cases bigger cities have more people to work more tiles to produce more production. In ES, every citizen on a planet produced the base number of FIDS for that planet.

What bothered me about ES was that in most cases the bonuses to production were set, as in +5, rather than 5%. In that way the basic properties of a planet didn't have as much impact as you would think.

Quote

Though I never did get used to ES. The AI would always manage to outbuild, outtech, and outexpand me, even on the lower difficulties. Not sure if that's because a builder strategy is dumb in ES, or if it was a legitimate problem with the AI. Anyway, I probably wouldn't fare any better in EL.

I had this problem too, or so I thought. I was always 3rd or last on FIDS (out of 4) and it always seemed like the AI was beating me to the middle area and good planets.

Then I went to war with them the first time and crushed them. What I learned was that you don't need to get every technology and that FIDS don't mean as much as you think. If it is going to take you 1 turn to research it you are just wasting a bunch of research, since it doesn't carry over. Research something harder and trade for the techs you don't have.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: i2amroy on September 20, 2014, 04:54:48 am
Depending on the factions wide and tall can both be viable strategies (though the best ultra end-game one is obviously going wide+tall :P). For example the wild walkers work rather well doing mass expansions, since they can easily put together rather large industry boosts on their own, which are then supplemented by the terrain. Other factions such as the necrophages prefer to walk a middle ground, due to their ability to quickly turn lower level cities into higher ones (due to their reduced population limits on expansion), and one faction even has the limit that it only is able to build one (very tall, it actually has a trait to bypass some of the limits) city in the entire game and instead forcibly converts the neutral villages into automated unit makers for it's armies.

As for the +X vs the +X per population thing, I find Endless Legend does a bit better job about that than ES did, where city location matters through the early and mid game, but later on after stacking enough hero and building bonuses on a city it's fully possible to make a viable city. Personally I like it, because it means that if you need to you can still build a useful city in that arctic wasteland (though it might take longer to get rolling) which is very nice when the 1 city per region mechanic starts to really limit the amount of space available.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on September 26, 2014, 02:33:23 pm
I've been thinking of getting this, but what you all have to say is giving me pause.

It seems like the only innovative mechanic is the winter creep and that is blatantly ripped off from Fall from Heaven. Not even FFH2 but the first one, the mini mod that came with Beyond the Sword, where the God of Winter kept freezing more of the landscape until you killed him (FFH2 let you *become* the god of winter ;)

Also, I hear magic is just artillery in disguise, meaning that none of the crazy redefinitions of terrain and battle mechanics I expect from magical strategy, and that even FFH2 offered years ago, are viable
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: sebcool on September 26, 2014, 03:48:17 pm
I've been thinking of getting this, but what you all have to say is giving me pause.

It seems like the only innovative mechanic is the winter creep and that is blatantly ripped off from Fall from Heaven. Not even FFH2 but the first one, the mini mod that came with Beyond the Sword, where the God of Winter kept freezing more of the landscape until you killed him (FFH2 let you *become* the god of winter ;)

Also, I hear magic is just artillery in disguise, meaning that none of the crazy redefinitions of terrain and battle mechanics I expect from magical strategy, and that even FFH2 offered years ago, are viable

I wouldn't say it was ripped off from FFH, unless you would call every game with a winter-mechanic a rip-off. The way it works is that you start at summer for roughly 40 turns, and then it turns to winter for a few turns. In the beginning, winter cuts your food production in half, cuts your armies vision and movement in half, and provides various other penalties to FIDS. It also shuts down a lot of powerful economic buildings, which improve your tile production. Over time, the summers get shorter and the winters longer, while constantly stacking more and more penalties during winter, until you're stuck in Endless winter. This creates an interesting balance, where it's very easy to expand early game, but the longer the game goes on, the harder it is to grow. A lot of the factions are also balanced around this, where powerful builder- and economy factions like the Roving Clans and the Wild Walkers have an unstoppable economy early game, and then they rapidly lose momentum later on as they respectively get huge penalties to their economy or lose most of their bonuses. The ultimate late-game faction on the other hand, the Vaulters, are built around winter: With buildings that reduce winter penalties; focus on the only FIDS not affected by winter (Science); the ability to buff their economy with a strategic resource and doubling the production of it during winter (and giving a combat bonus to units using that resource); and even the ability to teleport between their cities, negating the movement penalty of winter entirely.

While we're at the factions, they're awesome. Every faction is fleshed out with their own gimmicks, lore, unique units, and traits tailored to their play-style. The factions manage to be so unbalanced, that they swing right around and become balanced again. The Roving Clans, for example, are a pacifistic nomadic desert people, who practically worship dust; this allows them to move their cities at will, gives them so many trade bonuses that no other faction could win an economy victory against them, and allows them to use mercenaries to attack other factions without declaring war. But they also have the most severe penalties during winter of all the factions and can't declare war, which pretty much means they have to win a victory early or risk falling behind. This is just one of the factions.

I could go on, but to put it short, Endless Legend is a very good game. The empire building mechanics are completely unique and very fun, the winter mechanic is well implemented and creates a unique balance between factions and adds nicely to the empire building, the combat is decent, the units are fun and unique, the factions are all awesome and unique, the lore is great, and the art style and music is beautiful. This is one of the few 4x games, I actually finished. The only gripes I have with the game is that the AI is dumb as bricks, and the end game can get a little boring.

And to answer your concerns about magic, it is non-existent from what I know. There are no spells. The only faction that deals with magic, is mostly about building temporary improvements, that provide buffs. I don't think they even mentioned adding a full magic system in the game, and the game is more like a fantasy Civ 5, with tactical combat and additional features, than an AoW-like. If you were interested in the game for that, then don't buy it, I guess.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on September 27, 2014, 12:54:56 pm
*stuff*

Thanks for the great reply. I actually probably will get it now. The winter mechanic does sound more interesting than I imagined and the fact that the civs are substantially different is also a strong selling point.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Criptfeind on September 30, 2014, 08:45:03 pm
So I recently got this, and I've been having a lot of fun even though I've only played fully though a single game so far (my first game in fact, as the broken lords on normal difficulty, more like dust lords amirite?). Although now that I am trying to play a game on the next difficulty step up as a faction other then the broken lords, and I've ran into a issue. Specifically with the cultists. I'm just sorta wondering how one is suppose to play these guys, since the AI will ruthlessly hunt down and exterminate every single minor faction village that there is, both in their own territory and in unaligned territories. The only village that they seem to leave are the villages (or village rather) in my own territory. Even villages I already have converted are not spared from the minor faction cleansing, and the game doesn't even have the decency to require them to declare war on me to destroy them. Is there anyway to play the cultists other then going to permanent war against the other factions to protect the villages?
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: i2amroy on September 30, 2014, 11:27:25 pm
Cultists suffer a bit against the AI because the AI isn't that good at rebuilding pacified villages. I believe the people at amplitude are working on solving some of the problems that surround them, but at the moment there aren't any good solutions that I know of.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Majestic7 on October 01, 2014, 03:16:12 am
The game really needs some winning benefits. I mean, even just a screen with text on what happens after your victory. Now the game just...kind of ends and that's it.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Sartain on October 01, 2014, 03:25:01 am
I've been playing this multiplayer for the last couple of days and have come to two conclusions:

1) The game is only good played against other human players because the AI is bad.

2) Multiplayer seems kinda broken because the factions are massively unbalanced.

Edit: Also, in multiplayer at least, initiative and ranged weaponry are pretty much king which makes factions like the Broken Lords (who have no ranged units other than their support unit) very bad for fighting other players.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: PanH on October 01, 2014, 12:17:21 pm
Cultists suffer a bit against the AI because the AI isn't that good at rebuilding pacified villages. I believe the people at amplitude are working on solving some of the problems that surround them, but at the moment there aren't any good solutions that I know of.
You don't need the villages to be rebuilt to convert them. You can convert all pacified villages, which includes destroyed ones.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Criptfeind on October 01, 2014, 12:19:51 pm
Won't they just destroy the village again though? Even if they remake the AI to rebuild villages better, I don't think that would solve my issue of them destroying my already converted villages. Unless a destroyed village that is converted doesn't get rebuilt but still works to get resources and units and can't be destroyed again. I guess that would be cool, I'll admit I didn't try that.

Also darn, it's sad to hear that it has balance issues in multiplayer, I was hoping to play this with some people eventually. I did notice the lack of ranged units in the broken lords, I was hoping that their higher stats and Calvary and using minor faction units would be able to make up for that if I really needed it to. Tough luck that that doesn't seem to be the case...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 01, 2014, 01:18:26 pm
From what I heard, the Broken Lords can be broken in the other way as well though. As in ridicously strong later game economy if they survive the early game.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Aklyon on October 01, 2014, 01:23:21 pm
I am not at all surprised it has balance issues in MP, considering what I've heard in this thread. Either you have balanced mp, or you have factions with more uniqueness that break something or other when 2+ people are involved.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Sartain on October 01, 2014, 01:55:00 pm
Won't they just destroy the village again though? Even if they remake the AI to rebuild villages better, I don't think that would solve my issue of them destroying my already converted villages. Unless a destroyed village that is converted doesn't get rebuilt but still works to get resources and units and can't be destroyed again. I guess that would be cool, I'll admit I didn't try that.

Also darn, it's sad to hear that it has balance issues in multiplayer, I was hoping to play this with some people eventually. I did notice the lack of ranged units in the broken lords, I was hoping that their higher stats and Calvary and using minor faction units would be able to make up for that if I really needed it to. Tough luck that that doesn't seem to be the case...

Well it's a data pool of 1 so far, but it was my impression that they can very easily get steamrolled due to their lack of range and generally low initiative and that the fact that they don't heal naturally, but only by spending money on it seems more of a drawback than a bonus. I basically had to spend 150-ish gold after every fight just to get my hero back on his feet because even with the best in equipment I could he was surprisingly fragile, even against minor faction units.
The regular Broken Lords units have a small life drain ability (if a unit they damaged get killed in the same round they gain some HP back). For some reason, their heroes don't have that ability so only one way to heal those.

Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: sebcool on October 01, 2014, 02:14:48 pm
As I said in my previous post, this game is hilariously unbalanced. It's really hard to win the economy game against the Clans or the Broken Lords; you can't have a better early game than the Wild Walkers, and don't even consider trying to beat the Vaulters in the late-game (Seriously, you either kill them early, or they will out-everything you once Winter comes). Being unbalanced doesn't mean it's bad, though (unless you play multiplayer). A lot of classic fantasy 4x's were unbalanced as hell, but they are still widely regarded today (hence why they're classics).

As Aklyon said, it's pretty much impossible to have really unique factions in a 4x, while still maintaining balance (hell, it's hard to have slightly unique factions and still be balanced). Personally, if I had to choose between balanced and dull factions, or unique and hilariously unbalanced factions, I'd choose the unique factions every time. I don't play multiplayer, though, so that's an easy choice. I haven't tried the multiplayer, but I can imagine it's a pain.

The problem is that the AI is not really challenging. Hell, in my first game as the Vaulters (favorite faction ATM) I almost won an elimination victory against 7 factions without destroying any civs (I did take some cities from the Draken and the Necrophages, though). The neutral villages were killing them for me. In the end, there was only a single city left (cultists), and I was getting worried, that I wouldn't get to see the wonder victory. They are also complete pushovers in the military, and I often found myself rolling through all of their cities without a problem (except happiness). This was on Normal.

If they can improve the AI, though, I will play this until Winter comes.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Neonivek on October 01, 2014, 02:27:42 pm
Quote
A lot of classic fantasy 4x's were unbalanced as hell

One famous one is Masters of Orion 1 and 2.

Then again they were thought up as more single player games where multiplayer was considered optional so to speak. They were unbalanced but intentionally so.

The goal was to do as well as you could with the race available and experience the world they created. There was no sense that you would want to balance the game.

It is something much rarer now a days with the advent of multiplayer as the prime game mode (to the extent where games are starting to be multiplayer even on single player mode), but it does happen.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: i2amroy on October 01, 2014, 06:42:40 pm
If you aren't having any difficulties against the AI I highly suggest turning the difficulty up all the way. Endless AI has actually managed to beat me a few times. (That said it is fairly weak right now, but I can attest that it has definitely been getting better with each patch).
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Sartain on October 02, 2014, 05:48:07 am
Quote
A lot of classic fantasy 4x's were unbalanced as hell

One famous one is Masters of Orion 1 and 2.

Then again they were thought up as more single player games where multiplayer was considered optional so to speak. They were unbalanced but intentionally so.

The goal was to do as well as you could with the race available and experience the world they created. There was no sense that you would want to balance the game.

It is something much rarer now a days with the advent of multiplayer as the prime game mode (to the extent where games are starting to be multiplayer even on single player mode), but it does happen.

Well with the current moronic AI Endless Legend pretty much has to be played multiplayer  :)
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 02, 2014, 06:45:34 am
Indeed one drawback of perfect balancing is that the easiest way to do it is just palette swapping factions.

Hence, unbalanced often has better variety.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on October 03, 2014, 01:44:11 am
I got it, it isn't unbalanced so much as asymetrical. I wouldn't play it with strangers, but it looks like a really fun game with friends.  E.g. sure broken lords can't heal well, but c'mon: they opt out of a basic resource! I think mods and balances will make it even richer
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Neonivek on October 03, 2014, 01:58:20 am
I got it, it isn't unbalanced so much as asymetrical. I wouldn't play it with strangers, but it looks like a really fun game with friends.  E.g. sure broken lords can't heal well, but c'mon: they opt out of a basic resource! I think mods and balances will make it even richer

Its unbalanced, watcha talking about?

Just that unbalanced isn't necessarily a bad thing. The game is meant to be balanced by the fact that the factions will attempt to secure their victory, yet that requires all the players to be clued in.

The Rock Dumb AI though...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Werdna on October 03, 2014, 10:07:07 am
From what I heard, the Broken Lords can be broken in the other way as well though. As in ridicously strong later game economy if they survive the early game.

Yeah, they can be seriously broken.  I just turned the corner in my game and am putting out close to 3k dust a turn, and that's going to go rocketing up pretty soon as the new tech era has a bunch of +dust improvements, and my Lord heroes are all reaching a final tier of their skill tree that results in +X% dust income.  At one point I settled three new cities and was able to buy out almost every single building on each one in a single turn (in the empire plan, the science and dust plans can give you -X% to building costs... that combo results in insanely cheap to buy buildings).

I think the problem with the Lords is that there are too many +X% dust modifiers (or, that the value of each needs to be lowered).  Once you start stacking them, you are off to the races.  In particular, the Dustbloom or whatever that luxury is that gives you +50% dust income is way way too powerful for the Dust Lords.

As far as Broken Lords not healing well - that's only early game, it's actually an advantage later!  The healing costs do not scale.  I'm at midgame, clashing with nomad stacks, and healing my hero and a stack of Lord units instantly to full costs me about ~200 dust per battle when I'm making almost ~3k a turn.  I've been dismissing my non-lord units because they heal too slowly in comparison.  Add in Dust Bishops and the costs go down even more (they heal nearby units after an attack - but the computer AI loves to focus-fire on these guys).

The AI is pretty bad (the Achilles heel of most 4x's) and I think ultimately that is my greatest frustration with this genre of game.  My friends and I don't have the free time any more to coordinate MP games, so I'm stuck against the computer, and no matter what MoM clone I try the AI is barely a challenge.  I'll crank the difficulty level up and see what happens, this is on Normal and just my first game.  What I do like is the combat system and how it drags in nearby units as reinforcements - it tends to help the AI by minimizing the effect of outmaneuvering stupid AI stacks on the world map.  It's not quite as easy to isolate and kill a lonesome stack as it is in other games.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: i2amroy on October 03, 2014, 01:02:54 pm
Yeah, I'd suggest playing on either the top or second highest difficulty if you are up against the AI, since they can actually start to present a challenge at times then.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on November 21, 2014, 02:57:36 am
Just wanted to chime in to say I've been playing it quite a bit over the last few days and have to say it's probably my favourite non-space 4x - it's really, really good.

It's pretty much taken all the best bits from other 4x games and mixed it with some rather enjoyable RPG elements. As others have said, the different races are very, very different (and enjoyable), so it has a ton of re-playability, and being made as a pure single-player game it works well.

The only cons are that the turn based combat is a bit so-so, there's not a great deal to do with it, and I've found that the auto battle consistently makes you lose where you'd have easily won had you done it manually. The AI is admittedly quite weak, but with 4x's it's always easy to stack the game against your favour if you're in need of a challenge.
 
 I was always a fan of endless space, but it did have it's downsides - this seems to have cleared most of those away and come out with something pretty lean and very cool.

10/10 - must buy.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Anvilfolk on November 21, 2014, 10:22:59 am
Top of the wishlist right now! :)
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: RexMundi on November 29, 2014, 03:02:43 am
Just picked this game up on the turkey sale on steam, been eying it (and endless space) since they came out.
Can't wait to play :D
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: 10ebbor10 on November 29, 2014, 04:40:19 am
turkey sale?
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Aptus on November 29, 2014, 05:26:27 am
Just wanted to chime in to say I've been playing it quite a bit over the last few days and have to say it's probably my favourite non-space 4x - it's really, really good.

It's pretty much taken all the best bits from other 4x games and mixed it with some rather enjoyable RPG elements. As others have said, the different races are very, very different (and enjoyable), so it has a ton of re-playability, and being made as a pure single-player game it works well.

The only cons are that the turn based combat is a bit so-so, there's not a great deal to do with it, and I've found that the auto battle consistently makes you lose where you'd have easily won had you done it manually. The AI is admittedly quite weak, but with 4x's it's always easy to stack the game against your favour if you're in need of a challenge.
 
 I was always a fan of endless space, but it did have it's downsides - this seems to have cleared most of those away and come out with something pretty lean and very cool.

10/10 - must buy.

I'll take your word for it, I'll pick it up right now then :)
I've been after a good fantasy 4x that isn't FFH2 (played that to death). Age of Wonders 3 was really fucking good, but after a while it got painfully obvious that all the races were just carbon copies of eachother. Only thing that was putting me off was that I got really disappointed with endless space and the obviously ridiculously cheating fleet-spawning AI.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: aristabulus on November 29, 2014, 09:51:45 am
turkey sale?

American Thanksgiving holiday.  Steam has not started selling turkeys; if they have any at all, Gaben has reserved them for his personal consumption.

-----

I really would like to sink my teeth into this game, but alas, my frankenbox is only a dual core...  :(
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Aptus on November 30, 2014, 08:56:19 am
Been playing it on and off now since I bought it yesterday and it has promise but there is something missing. It feels... clinical. I don't know how to describe it, it just lacks something. Mechanically it works, the UI is easy to get into but lacks some depth in my opinion for a 4x. It also feels like nothing really ever happens, I have met and talked to two ai players so far and all we did was introduce ourselves. There are no "barbarians" and nothing dangerous in the world.

I don't know, I don't see myself playing this for long after I finish my first game. It's good, but it's once again, nothing special.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Criptfeind on November 30, 2014, 09:25:18 am
Huh. Although I agree after playing this some more there's some vague feeling of stuff missing in some places, there certainly are barbarians. The little villages (of which there are 1-3 or so in each zone) occasionally spawn in a stack of of their units who wander around attacking your armies and cities.

The AI seems to like to burn them down pretty quickly though. I guess it's possible that you got lucky and they killed all the villages really quickly or something.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on November 30, 2014, 11:01:49 am
Been playing it on and off now since I bought it yesterday and it has promise but there is something missing. It feels... clinical. I don't know how to describe it, it just lacks something. Mechanically it works, the UI is easy to get into but lacks some depth in my opinion for a 4x. It also feels like nothing really ever happens, I have met and talked to two ai players so far and all we did was introduce ourselves. There are no "barbarians" and nothing dangerous in the world.

I don't know, I don't see myself playing this for long after I finish my first game. It's good, but it's once again, nothing special.

That definitely hasn't been my experience. I've had a few nasty encounters with barbarians which were actually able to take out my heroes (early on) and siege cities. Make sure you put it on the hardest setting though/balance things against yourself, as otherwise it's pretty easy.

The one thing I hate is how bad the outcome for auto-resolving conflict is compared to doing it yourself. In absolutely all the battles where the odds have been relatively in my favour, I've been able to do it without a single loss, whilst auto-resolve has had me lose at least 1 or two units every time. Even against really easy foes you seem to lose one or two units randomly.
This has actually made me stop playing it a bit/only in short bursts, as it becomes such a grind to go through all the barbarians/low level armies when I have to do even the easiest battle manually or risk needlessly losing units. This does seem to be somewhat reduced if you're using a melee based army - I think it just positions (or whatever it does) your ranged units badly, which ends up with them getting mulched by melee units.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Criptfeind on November 30, 2014, 11:05:07 am
Yeah. I've had some odd experience as well. Sometimes in a manual battle the enemy will just rush at one of my units continuously no matter what and I'll lose that unit, and all my other units are unharmed, but auto battling makes it so that all my units take a bit of damage each but none of them die.

It's just odd sometimes...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Anvilfolk on November 30, 2014, 12:04:34 pm
Yeah, combat has been the shortcoming of the Endless games so far. To be honest, that's been true for most 4X's I've played that try to add a combat layer. Auto-resolving usually works if you don't have customisation. GalCiv II did this OKish, though it wasn't amazing. I think the combat system in Endless Legend has potential, but if you're fighting a lot the game will grind the game to a halt. Again, a problem most 4Xs have, including the MOOs.

Either way, when you setup a new game you can make combat animations faster! It's in one of the advanced settings pages, and has a weird name. I'd still like to generally make things flow faster, in and out of combat. It looks good, but it's interfering with my ability to speed past the uninteresting parts, and that's something that gets on my nerves.

I also had an easy run in my first game, but I was really taken in. I usually get drawn in by gameplay, but dayum the music and look on this game... it felt so peaceful and amazing! To be fair, I really needed to relax, and I got that from playing this on easy. I just decided to restart in a size 4 world for 6 players, so space is going to be at a premium, and a level above normal. We'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Sergarr on November 30, 2014, 01:39:21 pm
I'm always wondering how the hell all modern fantasy 4X-es manage to screw up combat, if the first fantasy 4X that I know - Master of Magic - did a very good job on that. The combat space is just big enough for maneuvering, the combat itself is fast, the combat magic feel powerful...
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on November 30, 2014, 02:48:31 pm
I don't think the fighting itself is actually that bad - especially being able to customize your own army so much (which is really awesome!) - it's just that it's so tedious to have to fight through every single battle or risk losing units.

Although I've tried just taking the hit with auto-combat - which is actually ok as the game really isn't that challenging - but it just feels so insulting to constantly lose troops when you could easily win it manually. When the battles are important/difficult I find the combat quite acceptable though.

I agree with how beautiful and peaceful the game is - I felt exactly the same with HOMM4, it's probably the worst entry in the series, but it's just so peaceful somehow.

Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Vendayn on November 30, 2014, 05:38:42 pm
So, how is this compared to Fallen Enchantress and other similar games? I couldn't pick it up this month (or any other game during the current sale), don't have the funds. But it looks really nice. Think I might pick it up during the Winter sales if I can.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Majestic7 on December 01, 2014, 08:58:43 am
I found Elemental and all its reboots utterly boring, while I've had the interest and energy to play Endless Legend. It is not the new Master of Magic, but it is pretty good and the different factions are actually different instead of being bland like in Elemental/Fallen Enchantress.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Sergarr on December 01, 2014, 11:14:17 am
But does it have the world-changing uber magic?

I absolutely loved the world-shaping abilities Master of Magic gave to the player with spells like Armageddon and Meteor Showers and stuff.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on December 01, 2014, 12:05:31 pm
As Majestic7 says, it's definitely different from Master of Magic, but it's very enjoyable in a different way. The main thing is the difference of the factions - they all play completely differently, and have different strengths and weaknesses that are much more pronounced than in most games. Similarly, it has a lot of RPG elements in it (customising heroes with skilltree, customizable equipment, loot) and quite in depth city building.

No world changing magic as such, but the world is quite dynamic. This is mainly in the 'winter' mechanic which basically makes everything harder for a set number of turns each year. This extends over time, so eventually you get very harsh winters that last for a long time - eventually becoming endless. However, some races can deal with this better than others, leading to quite interesting  late game scenarios which do help mitigate the end game grind. Things can dramatically change if you were a summer-based race playing against a winter-based race, as suddenly you realise that you don't have quite the strength you thought you did.

Very interesting, but be wary of the early game combat grind.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Anvilfolk on December 01, 2014, 03:13:43 pm
Started a new game, and combat is infinitely faster if make sure to setup combat speed acceleration to max!

I haven't had any luck actually having a military conflict in which I didn't steamroll the enemies so far. I probably have to play on a harder difficulty level.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Ultimuh on December 28, 2014, 11:46:12 am
Bought the game today.
Seem to be quite similar to and yet quite different from Civilization.
Everything in this game intrigues me so far.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: balrogkernel on February 12, 2015, 08:54:40 pm
The endless forum is too disorganized. :(   I've noticed that the frame rate gets very slow once you've gone beyond turn 200.  There doesn't appear to be a way of fixing this, at least for my computer.  Although the combat system was fun at first, I realized that during my wild walker play through there was no defense against the wild walker ranger elite army.  Initiative is way too important, and since they are ranged with 4 tiles of shooting on a relatively small hex map it's just too good.  The enemy doesn't have a chance to hit you.  It's sad, because it's so much more fun playing Master of Magic battles that are imbalanced yet have some challenge (ah yes, the sorcery nodes filled with sky drakes and phatom beasts).  Even when you were unstoppable with the heroes in MoM, it felt like you had really earned it.  But here in endless legend, enemies can't fight back consistently and you just rack up the exps to get even more overpowered.  I wish that amplitude took suggestions to improve that combat system, but I really doubt that will happen.  It's too bad because otherwise the game gets a lot right and has such potential to be a classic. 
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Trolldefender99 on July 29, 2018, 07:53:26 pm
This is a super old thread, and I didn't want to make a new one that I'd have to maintain...so hopefully this is okay. This is the only Endless Legend thread I found in search.

I'm thinking next month may pick up Endless Legend (on steam), along with Alpha Centauri on GoG (the latter being 100% that I'm getting it). But as far as Endless Legend goes...

How does the game hold up after all these years? Is it worth playing as far as a civ style 4x fantasy game goes? Or just worth it for a fantasy 4x in general? Or are there better choices on Steam/GoG? I notice it still gets updates and DLC, which popped up on my Steam page actually. It looks like its my style of game, but I dunno how it actually holds up. Mostly worried since people say AI is kinda bad, and so since it just be fighting AI and not multiplayer...might get a bit easy is my only worry. But maybe there are mods that make the AI better.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: E. Albright on July 30, 2018, 11:12:15 am
It's pretty, certainly. It's not terribly deep, but it has a fair breadth and the varied mechanics above make for some additional longevity. The AI seems to do a lot worse on big maps, FWIW.

I was rather surprised to see the new expansion for it pop up this past week, but that happened so I don't know whether to think development is done. I'll certainly be revisiting when the expansion opens up in a couple of days.

(And yes, that means that I thought that even now it was worth buying the expansion before it released.)
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on July 30, 2018, 02:44:22 pm
How does the game hold up after all these years? Is it worth playing as far as a civ style 4x fantasy game goes? Or just worth it for a fantasy 4x in general? Or are there better choices on Steam/GoG? I notice it still gets updates and DLC, which popped up on my Steam page actually. It looks like its my style of game, but I dunno how it actually holds up. Mostly worried since people say AI is kinda bad, and so since it just be fighting AI and not multiplayer...might get a bit easy is my only worry. But maybe there are mods that make the AI better.

I liked it and got quite a number of hours out of it. The main thing about it is that each race is completely different (really, really different) so it's fun to try them all out. The AI isn't terrible - it's sort of standard 4x type AI. It's relatively easy to ramp up the difficulty though by which races you choose though - selecting one which is 'weak' to others and putting teams which synergy well together can make for quite a challenge.

The DLC makes a big difference though, so make sure you get the full package (or at least quite a number) I played it at launch and wasn't impressed but came back when they did a big discount on all the DLC and thought it was really good.

The only downside is the combat is a bit boring and auto-resolve seems to punish you heavily - it's not a big draw back though.

I'd definitely say it's worth getting it on sale, and possibly full price if you're a big 4x fan. It's different to any 4x you'll have played, and there's enough to keep you occupied for a long time.


Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Trolldefender99 on July 30, 2018, 06:00:35 pm
Thanks for the info :) I actually went and ahead and bought it, but I haven't got the DLC yet. I did like Endless Space 1 and 2 a lot (and still play ES 2 quite often), and its by same company so I got a bit of an idea of type of game it is. I went ahead and watched a couple episodes of a let's play and it looks great.

Sadly without the DLC, it is kinda limiting as far as races go. I dunno what else is limiting. I kinda wish I didn't see the races that are locked but then it wouldn't entice people to buy them I guess. I'd rather wait to buy the one I want to be before playing. Its that weird race that has eyes and stuff on it. That race looks amazing. So I'm gonna wait till I get paid and go ahead and buy some of the DLC before starting. I still think it was worth the money though, I see myself getting a lot of hours of it if ES2 is anything to go by. I like how cities grow and a lot of the features sound neat. Plus it has steam workshop, which is always a nice bonus
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on July 31, 2018, 04:57:04 pm
Thanks for the info :) I actually went and ahead and bought it, but I haven't got the DLC yet. I did like Endless Space 1 and 2 a lot (and still play ES 2 quite often), and its by same company so I got a bit of an idea of type of game it is. I went ahead and watched a couple episodes of a let's play and it looks great.

Sadly without the DLC, it is kinda limiting as far as races go. I dunno what else is limiting. I kinda wish I didn't see the races that are locked but then it wouldn't entice people to buy them I guess. I'd rather wait to buy the one I want to be before playing. Its that weird race that has eyes and stuff on it. That race looks amazing. So I'm gonna wait till I get paid and go ahead and buy some of the DLC before starting. I still think it was worth the money though, I see myself getting a lot of hours of it if ES2 is anything to go by. I like how cities grow and a lot of the features sound neat. Plus it has steam workshop, which is always a nice bonus

Yeah I'm sure you'll get a lot of fun out of it, but I'd agree with waiting till you get a few of the DLC's. They add a lot and the game isn't nearly as good without them. I'd recommend the sea one most of all - that added a lot more to the maps which feel a bit bare without.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Trolldefender99 on August 02, 2018, 11:49:19 am
All the DLC and the game (and the other Endless games) are on a really good sale today, till the 6th (August). Sale accompanies the new expansion launch, inferno.

I did see it was already posted on the sales thread, but since this is the Endless Legend thread figured it still fit here as well
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Nelia Hawk on August 02, 2018, 01:14:21 pm
them endless games are also free to play next 3 days on steam... so give them all a test, they pretty cool
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Trolldefender99 on August 02, 2018, 08:33:04 pm
Yeah, gonna give the Dungeon game a try and see how I like it

As for the DLC. I bought the entire DLC collection (wasn't too bad, 23 dollars or so for everything+the inferno DLC). And wow, pretty much what was said... night/day difference to how much there is on the map and more to do and what not. Without the DLC the ocean for example is really barren. Kinda like EU4 where you can play without the DLC, but miss a ton of content and features and it isn't really worth playing (unless the person just doesn't know what the DLC is like and doesn't feel like they "miss" out cause of it).

As for the game itself. I'm enjoying it so far. Already 6 hours in, though 1 hour of that was before DLC stuff. Its pretty much what I expected from watching videos, though I do like the combat. The video I watched the person just did automatic combat so it was a nice surprise to see there was more to it.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Kagus on August 03, 2018, 05:38:25 am
Really though, an endless legend is just a leg.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Ai Shizuka on August 03, 2018, 07:03:18 am
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I didn't like Endless Legend. Disinstalled it after 11 hours.

It's not a bad game. Far from it.
It looks very pretty but, for me, it tries to do too many things. It feels like a bunch of half-finished games put together to provide an artificial feeling of depth and complexity.

It's a 4x with quests, basic RPG elements, a rudimentary city builder and very basic tactical combat.
These single parts of the game are mediocre at best. Put together, they make a mildly entertaining 4x game.
To me, the result has been a very bland and uninspired game.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: chevil on August 03, 2018, 07:11:24 am
Really though, an endless legend is just a leg.
This joke has no leg to stand on!
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Kagus on August 03, 2018, 08:26:08 am
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I didn't like Endless Legend. Disinstalled it after 11 hours.

It's not a bad game. Far from it.
It looks very pretty but, for me, it tries to do too many things. It feels like a bunch of half-finished games put together to provide an artificial feeling of depth and complexity.

It's a 4x with quests, basic RPG elements, a rudimentary city builder and very basic tactical combat.
These single parts of the game are mediocre at best. Put together, they make a mildly entertaining 4x game.
To me, the result has been a very bland and uninspired game.

We are the vocal minority!
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Darkening Kaos on August 03, 2018, 09:17:04 am
Really though, an endless legend is just a leg.
This joke has no leg to stand on!
     I always thought a legend was a foot.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on August 03, 2018, 12:39:40 pm
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I didn't like Endless Legend. Disinstalled it after 11 hours.

It's not a bad game. Far from it.
It looks very pretty but, for me, it tries to do too many things. It feels like a bunch of half-finished games put together to provide an artificial feeling of depth and complexity.

It's a 4x with quests, basic RPG elements, a rudimentary city builder and very basic tactical combat.
These single parts of the game are mediocre at best. Put together, they make a mildly entertaining 4x game.
To me, the result has been a very bland and uninspired game.

Did you play before or after some of the (later) DLCs?

Those were exactly my thoughts on the base game and I was amazed at how much it had changed. All the systems were there previously, but they didn't really work together.
I thought Tempest especially added a lot, but all of them combined stopped it being bland. The other thing is the different factions, I thought some were pretty rubbish, whilst others were great fun - I can imagine trying out 2-3 factions and thinking it wasn't great just because they didn't fit your playstyle.

I still wouldn't say it's the best 4x ever, but it's certainly very entertaining now in my opinion.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Ai Shizuka on August 03, 2018, 03:58:59 pm
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but I didn't like Endless Legend. Disinstalled it after 11 hours.

It's not a bad game. Far from it.
It looks very pretty but, for me, it tries to do too many things. It feels like a bunch of half-finished games put together to provide an artificial feeling of depth and complexity.

It's a 4x with quests, basic RPG elements, a rudimentary city builder and very basic tactical combat.
These single parts of the game are mediocre at best. Put together, they make a mildly entertaining 4x game.
To me, the result has been a very bland and uninspired game.

Did you play before or after some of the (later) DLCs?

Those were exactly my thoughts on the base game and I was amazed at how much it had changed. All the systems were there previously, but they didn't really work together.
I thought Tempest especially added a lot, but all of them combined stopped it being bland. The other thing is the different factions, I thought some were pretty rubbish, whilst others were great fun - I can imagine trying out 2-3 factions and thinking it wasn't great just because they didn't fit your playstyle.

I still wouldn't say it's the best 4x ever, but it's certainly very entertaining now in my opinion.

There's a bunch of DLC in my library, including guardians, shadows and shifters. But not tempest. I think I bought a bundle on some sale in the past.
I have a weird feeling for this game.
I realize it's very polished and quite unique in the 4x genre. Right from the description I thought "this looks like something I could play for hundreds of hours".

But then it just didn't click. I will give it another try at some point. Like you said, maybe I picked the wrong faction. I don't remember wich one. They have human (or maybe elven) archers in their units.
Title: Re: Endless Legend
Post by: Retropunch on August 03, 2018, 04:18:46 pm
There's a bunch of DLC in my library, including guardians, shadows and shifters. But not tempest. I think I bought a bundle on some sale in the past.
I have a weird feeling for this game.
I realize it's very polished and quite unique in the 4x genre. Right from the description I thought "this looks like something I could play for hundreds of hours".

But then it just didn't click. I will give it another try at some point. Like you said, maybe I picked the wrong faction. I don't remember wich one. They have human (or maybe elven) archers in their units.

Tempest was one of the bigger DLCs and there were a ton of free updates around then.

The faction you were playing would probably be either the Vaulters or Wild Walkers - they're by far the most standard of all the factions - nothing wrong with them, but they're basically just stereotypical 'humans'.

I'm not saying you'll love it, but I went from feeling exactly the same as you to putting in a good 50 hours or so after the Tempest update so it might be worth dipping back in when you get time.