Posting to watch.Horsecrap.
I think we can agree I'm to experienced to play beginner's, and not enough to IC.
I guess it's because it can get hard to fill the slots. And besides, more help for the newbies is quite often better.Posting to watch.Horsecrap.
I think we can agree I'm to experienced to play beginner's, and not enough to IC.
I still play bm's as a player.
Of course, I usually pretend to be an IC while doing so, but that's not the point.
Edit: I'm actually kinda surprised none of the mods have yelled at me for it. I never talked beyond the grave though, so I guess that's something.
Yay I actually managed to get into a beginners Mafia before it closed!Sorry... the signups were actually full and I was too lazy to get off my ass and record that. you've been put on the waitlist.
Patience, young Padawan.But we're all Jedi Masters, so it's not really in context, is it?
I've totally been waiting forever to say that in context. Yes.
So now you'll suspect yourself as scum, right :P?But of course. In fact, I might very well vote for myself during the Lynch.
In what timezone most people here are?I'm in GMT+1
In what timezone most people here are?
Take me off waitlist, then. I don't really want to be plopped into a game already in progress.Yay I actually managed to get into a beginners Mafia before it closed!Sorry... the signups were actually full and I was too lazy to get off my ass and record that. you've been put on the waitlist.
You should be as sure as you can before voting, when you have to rely on your team, be it as colleagues or meat sheilds, you can't risk causing the death of one of your colleagues and gaining the suspicions of the others.Can an IC comment on this? I don't think it's true. We have to risk causing the death of our colleagues. There's no other way to win. And as far as suspicion goes, if everyone was afraid of voting for looking suspicious then noone would be able to vote at all.
Frostmoon: Im expecting heated debate, broken friendships (Which are fixed by the end) and to learn how to play this game to the best of my ability.{anailater managed to mostly nail a very important thing about Mafia. It's a game. Don't take insults personally, don't take attacks or aggression personally. While real insults are fairly rare, people will try to unnerve you to make you reveal who you are. And remember, what happens in the game stays in the game.}
BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.{In small games like this where the town has very few power roles it's a bad idea to mass roleclaim early, but roleclaims can often decide games in favor of the town in power-heavy games. It's certainly not anti-town, but it's sub-optimal to do it here.}
anailater: Do you believe that longer posts correlate to scumminess?{Post size has nothing to do with scumminess. Players like Tiruin make huge posts, but that doesn't mean she's scum all the time, or town all the time. Focus on the content, not the length.}
Nerjin and Deathsword: You guys are ICs this round. How do you plan to counteract the change in behavior that such a role brings to a newbie game? (That is, either people are much more or much less suspicious or threatened by you because of your position of semi-authority.){By informing players that they should be as wary of us as anyone else.}
So, Blitz, are you telling me you don't trust your own townieness?So now you'll suspect yourself as scum, right :P?But of course. In fact, I might very well vote for myself during the Lynch.
I will try to go with intuition+carefully seeking for slip-ups.So you will lurk until people hand tells to you on a platter? Get hunting if you want slips. Pressure people.
Everyone: As we've seen before, games with newbies often end up with a ton of null tells just because inexperience is inherently a little scummy. We've had a few small things come up already in this game. How do you plan to separate inexperience from mafia slip-ups?Just because someone is a newbie doesn't mean they can't be scum. Flailing newbie scum drop a lot more tells than flailing town.
Scripten: I can't really comment on this.Why not? Are you trying to hide something?
Nerjin / Deathsword: If you're both scum and an IC, how will you balance that?We'd stomp you.[/joke] More seriously though, we'd likely play as a normal IC would. An IC is to prioritize teaching above winning.
Uhh...People not asking you questions is not an excuse to laze about. You are more than capable of asking your own questions. Town act, scum react. Guess what you're doing.
I'm just going to be sitting here in the corner. Alone. Forever.
Make accusations? What do you take this for? A game of Maf- oh wait.Why so hesistant? Stop active-lurking.
Well, yobbo certainly seemed quick to accuse, so he's suspicious. Not voting yet, but it seems likely. However, he does bring up a valid point about anailater, so he is also a suspect.
Frostmoon: The fact that anailater was quick to cast suspicion, but scared to use the vote.Scum are pretty self-centering, since the game does revolve around their existence. If people are fuzzy because they haven't commented on you maybe it's because you don't feel your scum-status threatened by them? Why yobbo and anailater suspicious?
I don't feel much on the other players, really. There isn't much to feel, since a majority of them haven't commented on me or my actions in the slightest. That said, both yobbo and anailater seem suspicious.
Regarding your question Yobbo{NO. Voting is useful. As town, it's your main weapon. It can be used to add pressure and weight to a vote, to unnerve scum, to kill scum. The only time you want to be careful voting is in a game with hammers, which is not the case here.}
You should be as sure as you can before voting, when you have to rely on your team, be it as colleagues or meat sheilds, you can't risk causing the death of one of your colleagues and gaining the suspicions of the others.
But keep in mind that I am a player as well and being an IC doesn't mean being town.
{By informing players that they should be as wary of us as anyone else.}
So, Blitz, are you telling me you don't trust your own townieness?You seem to be emphasizing the fact that an IC (such as you) could be scum, yet you vote for Blitz for doing the same thing. Is your IC advice ratting you out, or do you suspect that Nernjin is scum? How do you feel about the anailater/yobbo argument?
Deathsword: Ah, hello.I do trust my own towniness, if that is what you are getting at. {As an IC, I merely wish to dispell the fear that some players have of ICs}. I do not suspect Nerjin, who, in fact, has no posts.But keep in mind that I am a player as well and being an IC doesn't mean being town.{By informing players that they should be as wary of us as anyone else.}So, Blitz, are you telling me you don't trust your own townieness?You seem to be emphasizing the fact that an IC (such as you) could be scum, yet you vote for Blitz for doing the same thing. Is your IC advice ratting you out, or do you suspect that Nernjin is scum? How do you feel about the anailater/yobbo argument?
Exactly what do you mean by playing carefully?This question was very careful, and that's exactly what i mean. You've been dutifully posting a lot, but your posts seem carefully designed so as not to seem dangerous, and not slip up. A lot of banter and chat, but not really any content that would make someone accuse you of something, and nothing that would make someone else feel like you're attacking them either.
yobbo: Would you count evasion as careful posting? Also, imagine you're a cop, and you had just inspected one of the ICs, who happened to be scum. What would you do?No, i'd consider evasion as sloppy. Careful would be phrasing your response so that you always had a way out.
In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.How can you get someone to slip up if they don't at least think you're putting pressure on them? (serious question)
Lack of activity sucks but isn't much of a scum-tell. It's a tell that someone should have thought harder before joining the game. Active-lurking is the biggest scum-tell for me. I feel like buddying is a major one as is distancing.I agree with the activity thing, especially in a BM. Why is active-lurking the most important scum tell?
BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.'
This.
I find it interesting that you two seem to have completely different opinions on this matter. Nerjin, why is role-fishing scummy? Is it almost as scummy as active-lurking? Deathsword, why is role-fishing merely suboptimal? Can you provide a game where role-fishing saved town?BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.{In small games like this where the town has very few power roles it's a bad idea to mass roleclaim early, but roleclaims can often decide games in favor of the town in power-heavy games. It's certainly not anti-town, but it's sub-optimal to do it here.}
yobbo: Would you count evasion as careful posting? Also, imagine you're a cop, and you had just inspected one of the ICs, who happened to be scum. What would you do?No, i'd consider evasion as sloppy. Careful would be phrasing your response so that you always had a way out.
Looking at scripten's response to me for example, he very carefully asked for clarification as to exactly what i meant, while focusing the question on the issue of lurking. This could easily mean that he just misunderstood my question (as lurking was being discussed), but would also be a very careful play if he had understood my question perfectly but was trying to divert attention from what i actually meant to the safer topic (hunting lurkers, of which he is not one).
Thinking about it in that way, do you see what i mean, or am i barking up the wrong tree here?
Nerjin:Lack of activity sucks but isn't much of a scum-tell. It's a tell that someone should have thought harder before joining the game. Active-lurking is the biggest scum-tell for me. I feel like buddying is a major one as is distancing.I agree with the activity thing, especially in a BM. Why is active-lurking the most important scum tell?
BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.'
This.I find it interesting that you two seem to have completely different opinions on this matter. Nerjin, why is role-fishing scummy? Is it almost as scummy as active-lurking? Deathsword, why is role-fishing merely suboptimal? Can you provide a game where role-fishing saved town?BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.{In small games like this where the town has very few power roles it's a bad idea to mass roleclaim early, but roleclaims can often decide games in favor of the town in power-heavy games. It's certainly not anti-town, but it's sub-optimal to do it here.}
I'd consider attempting to divert attention as evasion. Also, why do you consider evasion sloppy?Oh, i took evasion to mean not answering questions. Like if someone just conveniently skipped answering some question it would only seem fishy if i noticed it (which i probably wouldn't if it was someone else's question). And then even if they're called out on it they could always say "oh i missed the question sorry". Sloppy because you could lazily do it, but it would be pretty obvious in hindsight.
Ah. By evasion, I meant not fully answering/dodging the question.I'd consider attempting to divert attention as evasion. Also, why do you consider evasion sloppy?Oh, i took evasion to mean not answering questions. Like if someone just conveniently skipped answering some question it would only seem fishy if i noticed it (which i probably wouldn't if it was someone else's question). And then even if they're called out on it they could always say "oh i missed the question sorry". Sloppy because you could lazily do it, but it would be pretty obvious in hindsight.
Scripten: I'm a little surprised by their inactivity as by looking through their recent posts, both Nerjin and Deathsword appear to have been online today. Do you think that in later days activity will skyrocket, plummet, or remain steady?
Just because someone is a newbie doesn't mean they can't be scum. Flailing newbie scum drop a lot more tells than flailing town.
This question was very careful, and that's exactly what i mean. You've been dutifully posting a lot, but your posts seem carefully designed so as not to seem dangerous, and not slip up. A lot of banter and chat, but not really any content that would make someone accuse you of something, and nothing that would make someone else feel like you're attacking them either.
It seems to me that this would be an exellent scum tactic. What do you think?
Well, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.
Why did you vote me? Was it because I've done something that warrents getting voted? No? So it was a pressure vote right out of the gate with no real pressure behind it. I hate when people vote just to vote. Your vote is a weapon. I wouldn't appreciate you pointing a loaded gun at my face for giggles. Treat your vote like a loaded gun. It's going to get somebody killed.
-snip-
In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.
So...Blitz:People are suspicious of the lack of meaningful content in your actions, I'm not sure i agree, as there has t been much to say, however they are the IC's
I was asleep. And suddenly, 2 pages greet me. That's just great man.
Anyone mind rounding up what was asked of me?
Your wrong, votes are very important, it's like a loaded gun.
[/quite]
IC's: Really? To me it seems like voting heavy early on the first day is a dangerous game to play, especially as it could lead to a bandwagon situation
In previous games you've played how was the first day vote usually treated?
Nothing in particular, but some examples would be;You're showing everything you said is first day scumtell to you.
Not participating much without providing a good reason.
Asking suspicious questions.
Deathsword: that was a joke. You may or may not have heard of the concept.Blitz: While I know I've already made some myself, do you think it's a good idea to make jokes when it's your life on the line?
Well, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.
Why did you vote me? Was it because I've done something that warrents getting voted? No? So it was a pressure vote right out of the gate with no real pressure behind it. I hate when people vote just to vote. Your vote is a weapon. I wouldn't appreciate you pointing a loaded gun at my face for giggles. Treat your vote like a loaded gun. It's going to get somebody killed.
-snip-
In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.
Everything else you've said is fine with me, but as far as this goes... NOOOOOOOOOPE.
Putting pressure on other players with a vote is not anything like waving a gun in their face, and the implication goes against the entire idea of your vote being a power, which is something you guys touched upon earlier. I chose you because, out of everyone who hadn't spoken, I thought you would be the most interesting to hear from. Regardless, trying to bully people into not using their votes is basically telling the entire town not to use their most common and powerful tool for taking care of scum. If this was a situation where you were at L-1 (One vote left to lynch) I would have held my vote if I wasn't mostly sure, but that's not often the situation.
On last thing, you haven't used your lime IC text for any of your explanations yet. Does that mean that nothing you've said so far is to be objectively trustworthy? And does that mean you don't think we're pretty enough? Because we are.
You mean being clear? I haven't avoided any questions that I'm aware of, though if I've missed any, please go ahead and let me know. Obviously, I'm not going to go out of my way to be or seem dangerous, but I haven't held any punches. I just see no reason why I should need to attack anyone outright in the current climate. I've made my thoughts and suspicions clear. And, just to clarify, I focused on lurkers because we had two ICs doing just, which was really worrisome. (I've been in multiple games where scum literally posted twice or three times in the entire game and won.) Now that everyone's showed up, I have some content to go on.I guess i mean being both very clear and non-confrontational. Well, given your attack on Nerjin it's probably just your style to post like that. It could also be that you've played a few games and are experienced in how not to look scummy. I'm still a little worried that you seem like you'd be very good at hiding things.
Frankly, you could construe a lot as a good scum tactic during RVS. There's just not enough evidence to make good claims until we've all said our pieces. That being said, I do have my eyes set on BlitzDungeoneer. However, I'm keeping my vote on Nirjin for reasons I'll get into below.
Admittedly it wasn't very clear that this was directed at you, but with all the telling us to quote, i figured you'd actually look at the author of the quotes.In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.How can you get someone to slip up if they don't at least think you're putting pressure on them? (serious question)
As i'm not voting you, you must be awful calm in your potentially scummy little world there.
If anailater was actually a town power role and asking this in order to subtly get advice (which i don't think is necessarily the case), pressing him over why he asked it would be a very scummy thing to do indeed. So, why are you doing something that at very least is anti-town?The scumness of multiple suspicions decrease as the game goes by, as people die and behaviours become more traceable, but it's definitely suspicious and risky(Unless you know who everyone is) to suspect multiple people.
Also I have a question, what do you think us the best way to avoid being night killed?
No, it isn’t. It’s perfectly fine to be suspicious of multiple people at once in the early game. Especially day 1 where all you really have to go on are gut reads and the like. As the game goes on you can focus more on specific people AND you have more information to go on. So no multiple suspicions isn’t scummy.
Also, I like that question. Why did you ask it?
I bolded the important parts. Pressure is fine. Voting just to vote with no reason isn't. I said as much. Please don't put words in my mouth.
I'm not bullying anyone. I'm giving my advice as I feel it is needed. In my opinion, which you are welcome to ignore, you should only vote someone if there's a benefit to it aside from "I voted them.QuoteOne last thing, you haven't used your lime IC text for any of your explanations yet. Does that mean that nothing you've said so far is to be objectively trustworthy? And does that mean you don't think we're pretty enough? Because we are.
It means I forgot to use it.
yobbo: Being clear and non-confrontational is alright when the situation suits it. Aggressiveness has its place, but you can often get away with much more by just being clear and expecting the same from your target. For example, you've used the information I gleaned from Nerjin to make your own judgement on him. In fact, what you've just done could be construed as a form of buddying. You distanced yourself from me before taking up a point I'd made. That's not to say that I consider you particularly scummy yet, but I expect you to respond to my accusation and, from that, I can glean more information from you. I don't really hold with the idea that being aggressive is the end-all method of information extraction. :PYeah, i realize getting off your case and then following your attack target looks a little off. But my suspicions aren't actually based on yours. If you hadn't brought up the point about the lack of green IC text i would've, but even after it was answered i found myself still suspicious.
Gulddom: Welcome to the game! :3 So, why is Blitz scummier than everyone else? Is there anyone that's giving you a townie vibe, or is everyone else either neutral or null?Frostmoon: I explained in my post earlier Blitz has been guilty of a lot of active lurking and tried to rolefish. (Although I think the rolefishing was an honest mistake.) I don't have any real leanings towards anyone else being scum or townies.
Guiddom: Who do you think hasn't posted enough to get a good read on, and why aren't you asking them questions?Yobbo: Blitz hasn't posted much recently. As to the questions. I honestly was a bit overwhelmed at all of the information and couldn't think of anything.
This was a joke. Also, power blackouts. Had you checked you might have noticed I wasn't online, and probably won't be for the next few days.So now you'll suspect yourself as scum, right :P?But of course. In fact, I might very well vote for myself during the Lynch.
A very good idea. What, am I supposed to be super serious all day, everyday?Deathsword: that was a joke. You may or may not have heard of the concept.Blitz: While I know I've already made some myself, do you think it's a good idea to make jokes when it's your life on the line?
Everyone: I'm still a bit confused about the idea's of buddying and distancing. Could someone explain that to me?
Can I make a vote to extend? I'm seeing a ton of inactivity, and I'm not so thrilled about that. We're liable to see scum win by lack of player activity or worse, the whole game just dying. I may also be paranoid because that particular issue plagued the last BM I was a part of.I mod-extended one day because I am a horrible person, so the day ends tomorrow.
Frostmoon and anailater: What are your thoughts on the current situation?I'm rather ambivalent with Blitz's lynch. Blitz's actions are giving me a heavy 'fumbling unsure newbie' vibe, but he easily could be a 'fumbling newbie' and scum at the same time.
game ends less than six hours
I'm I wrong in saying one of the most scummy things you can do is give up, and if I'm not mistaken saying but I'm dead anyways is giving up, you're not helping your reputation right now.Spoiler: anailater (click to show/hide)
Anailater
Nerjin: I know this is the internet and all, but it seems like you're coming across are really hostile towards everyone which is not the way I would think to go about proving I'm not scum. Also this bit you posted earlier has been bothering me.Spoiler: anailater (click to show/hide)
AnailaterSpoiler: Frostmoon (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Scripten (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Yobbo (click to show/hide)game ends less than six hours
Oh... Um... well I guess good game everyone? I didn't know this was a one lynch mafia.
Well, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.You tell us to press you if we see something suspicious yet you get defensive when we do. And while I'm still suspicious of Blitz, I'm voting for you due to the reasoning you gave in your post.
If you think hostility is a bad thing perhaps you should try another board. Hostility happens around here. You get used to it.((Sorry for cutting in))
Please don't mock the mistypes, Nerjin.
Nerjin:Admittedly it wasn't very clear that this was directed at you, but with all the telling us to quote, i figured you'd actually look at the author of the quotes.In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.How can you get someone to slip up if they don't at least think you're putting pressure on them? (serious question)
As i'm not voting you, you must be awful calm in your potentially scummy little world there.
I bet if i had put your name in nice shiny red font you would have paid attention to it.
Fun fact, I'm human. I miss things sometimes. Go figure right?
Quote from: Same thingYou used your lime text for the gun metaphor this time so i'll assume it's a general belief you have and not trying to scare newbies away from voting. But so far in this game everyone has already shown that they take votes very seriously indeed, and hardly anyone has actually been using them. Also my vote was very clearly intended to put pressure on anailater. So why did you feel the need to talk about voting to vote and try to direct people away from using the one tool most of them have to find and lynch scum?
The reason you all take the votes seriously is because you're still in the 'holy crepes a vote! I must forsooth do something!!!' stage of playing. After you've played a couple games you might come to appreciate the difference.
I'm less here to win, and more here to teach you guys stuff to the best of my abilities. Obviously I'm doing a poor job, or you just refuse to accept that I might have a point when I say that you should be a bit more careful with your vote.
I thought i did explain. There was already a lot of talk about how trying to figure out what roles people have it like pointing out who scum should kill in the night. And that's exactly what it looked like you were doing. Either trying to figure out who you should kill in the night or asking a dangerous question that town shouldn't be asking. And as you're an IC i figure you know that. Which is why it looks scummy to me.Quote from: Also the same thingAlso:If anailater was actually a town power role and asking this in order to subtly get advice (which i don't think is necessarily the case), pressing him over why he asked it would be a very scummy thing to do indeed. So, why are you doing something that at very least is anti-town?The scumness of multiple suspicions decrease as the game goes by, as people die and behaviours become more traceable, but it's definitely suspicious and risky(Unless you know who everyone is) to suspect multiple people.
Also I have a question, what do you think us the best way to avoid being night killed?
No, it isn’t. It’s perfectly fine to be suspicious of multiple people at once in the early game. Especially day 1 where all you really have to go on are gut reads and the like. As the game goes on you can focus more on specific people AND you have more information to go on. So no multiple suspicions isn’t scummy.
Also, I like that question. Why did you ask it?
I hope it is obvious that i am not just voting to vote here, but actually find your behaviour actively scummy.
How is it scummy? I'm genuinely curious as to why he asked the question. Motivation is an important factor in most cases I find.
It is, actually, not obvious at all as you do not explain why my actions are scummy. But that's fine I suppose. Beginner's Mafia and all.
The day ends in not too much longer, people usually don't get on all that often to a mafia game, and there's not quite enough time for me to fix things [that aren't even broken, by the way] at this point.What did you mean by things not being broken? That voting you is the right thing to do? :/
There is a difference between giving up at day start and knowing when you can't win.
I can't win while alive. My death will give information. *Shrug* as for reputation I don't care at all about reputation.
Deathsword:Guddom already said it, but which facts? You were just posting about how you had nothing to do (you did, hunting and all that, but already went over that) because no one was asking you stuff, and now you are complaining about people getting "facts" wrong without saying which facts. Also, you are expected to have a bit of seriousness when playing this game. Saying you were joking after people call you out on stuff looks a lot like a lazy excuse to make people disregard your slips. You complain people don't pay attention to you, then ask people to do your job, and when people call you stuff you say you were just "joking" and that they are "wrong" without even saying why.This was a joke. Also, power blackouts. Had you checked you might have noticed I wasn't online, and probably won't be for the next few days.So now you'll suspect yourself as scum, right :P?But of course. In fact, I might very well vote for myself during the Lynch.
Gulddom: Perhaps. Playing dumb would certainly be a viable tactic.A very good idea. What, am I supposed to be super serious all day, everyday?Deathsword: that was a joke. You may or may not have heard of the concept.Blitz: While I know I've already made some myself, do you think it's a good idea to make jokes when it's your life on the line?
Second Deathsword: You also seem very quick to blame me for active lurking without checking your facts. Care to explain why?
Illgeo and Deathsword: What made Blitz look so scummy? Just a lot of low content posts? How is that different from a new town player wanting to participate but not knowing how to get the ball rolling?Above is the answer.
Well that couldn't have gone any worse....We still have a cop or jailkeeper or maybe both, so it's definitely not as bad as it could be.
Anailater: My... Opinion? Hmm... Well, our situation is currently slightly shit, what with the losing of one of our own.It was two of our own actually, my opinion? That we should focus more on people that aren't posting a lot, rather than people who are, also I'd like to apologise to the people who's eeatys I caused.
Everyone: How 'bout your opinions on our current situation?
Everyone: How 'bout your opinions on our current situation?Like yobbo, I'm rather confused by this turn of events. Perhaps anailater is right, and the mafia went for Gulddom because his death probably wouldn't have a huge effect on who we target. Or maybe they just wanted to confuse us, and if so, that strategy's certainly working.
That we should focus more on people that aren't posting a lot, rather than people who areWhy do you believe that we should focus on inactivity? I'm pretty sure Gulddom was the person with the least amount of posts (though I could be incorrect), and he's town.
Blitz, you completely ignored my questions.Which ones? Like I said, it's entirely possible I didn't notice them.
So, Blitz.Nothing in particular, but some examples would be;You're showing everything you said is first day scumtell to you.
Not participating much without providing a good reason.
Asking suspicious questions.
Also, you said some people suspicious for you, yet you aren't trying to pressure them.
So, Blitz.That's... Not a question. Still, I'll try to answer it.Nothing in particular, but some examples would be;You're showing everything you said is first day scumtell to you.
Not participating much without providing a good reason.
Asking suspicious questions.
Also, you said some people suspicious for you, yet you aren't trying to pressure them.
1. I did provide a reason most of the time though. Namely, blackouts followed by a family gathering.
2. Which questions are suspicious to you?
3. Pressure them? How, exactly? I've literally only played 1 game and never read any, so not entirely certain how I'm supposed to do that.
On a side note, you seemed awfully quick to accuse me of deflecting questions without even telling me which ones. That seems strange, no?
Before day's end, I'd like to put up a quick list of other players and my basic read on them. I'll clarify why I've put anyone in the place I have if you all would like to know. Anyone else care to put up some reads before night comes?
-Most Scummy-
Nerjin
BlitzDungeoneer
Illgeo
anailater/Gulddom
Deathsword
yobbo
Frostmoon
-Most Town-
Frostmoon: Who currently seems scummiest to you right now, and for what reasons?I'm honestly not sure who's the scummiest right now, actually. Unfortunately, most of you are falling into a null or neutral read. The only person's whose play has been bothering (albeit minorly) is Illgeo's. Although in his fourth post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451141#msg5451141) he defends anailater and basically says that it's too early to vote, his very first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5450481#msg5450481) contains a vote, albeit a random vote determined by random.org. His only real vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5453569#msg5453569) brings up a good and interesting pint, yet at the same time feels rather bandwagony, which in turn feels contradictory to his general 'only vote someone who feels like scum' attitude. He then immediately votes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5477843#msg5477843) Blitz again day two, which-again-feels rather contradictory to his early play. His overall play just feels contradictory. Yet, as I say all of this, two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451324#msg5451324) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451412#msg5451412), in which he implies that although anailater's posts may look good, he wouldn't blindly trust him, which, for some reason, feels like a rather town-sided thing to say.
Scripten: So basically, you want me to put far more info in my posts. Okay, I'll try to do that.
Second Scripten:Basically what anailater said. How would you suggest we deal with those players that are inactive?
Frostmoon: Who currently seems scummiest to you right now, and for what reasons?
Blitz:Frostmoon: Who currently seems scummiest to you right now, and for what reasons?I'm honestly not sure who's the scummiest right now, actually. Unfortunately, most of you are falling into a null or neutral read. The only person's whose play has been bothering (albeit minorly) is Illgeo's. Although in his fourth post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451141#msg5451141) he defends anailater and basically says that it's too early to vote, his very first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5450481#msg5450481) contains a vote, albeit a random vote determined by random.org. His only real vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5453569#msg5453569) brings up a good and interesting pint, yet at the same time feels rather bandwagony, which in turn feels contradictory to his general 'only vote someone who feels like scum' attitude. He then immediately votes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5477843#msg5477843) Blitz again day two, which-again-feels rather contradictory to his early play. His overall play just feels contradictory. Yet, as I say all of this, two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451324#msg5451324) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5451412#msg5451412), in which he implies that although anailater's posts may look good, he wouldn't blindly trust him, which, for some reason, feels like a rather town-sided thing to say.
Scripten:Before day's end, I'd like to put up a quick list of other players and my basic read on them. I'll clarify why I've put anyone in the place I have if you all would like to know. Anyone else care to put up some reads before night comes?
-Most Scummy-
Nerjin
BlitzDungeoneer
Illgeo
anailater/Gulddom
Deathsword
yobbo
Frostmoon
-Most Town-
Do these reads still relate to what you believe now? (Excluding, of course, Nerjin and Gulddom because they're confirmed town.) If so, do you care to explain people's rankings?
Scripten: Well how do you suggest we deal with inactive members? Do we pm them, or do you threaten then with your vote/FoS?
.Yeah, PMs are forbidden between players. Don't really need to say much more on this.
- PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.
- Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related
Scripten: Well how do you suggest we deal with inactive members? Do we pm them, or do you threaten then with your vote/FoS?
Absolutely no PMing, IIRC. I believe that is against the rules. The mods will take care of that. Of course, I may be wrong. 4maskwolf, can you confirm?
Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
Scum are pretty self-centering, since the game does revolve around their existence. If people are fuzzy because they haven't commented on you maybe it's because you don't feel your scum-status threatened by them?the self-centering bit made me remember this. And as far as the "untouchable" vibe, i think it could really be scum trying not to act worried at the votes on them and over-succeeding.
Illgeo: But what if scum just lurk and don't post? What do you do then?This was in response to him saying that votes shouldn't be serious until you at least had a chance to see everyone post. I remember it because i never got an answer to the question, so i watched to see what he'd do, and he did seem to wait till everyone posted and then made a serious vote on blitz. i don't know how to tell if this is scummy or just not spending much time on the game.
I haven't actually asked you any questions, and honestly i don't want to read the thread for you :/.And since you didn't ask questions, you don't actually have any that I haven't answered. All I'm asking is that if you accuse me of dodging questions, tell me which ones.
(and Nerjin: as IC what do you think of us having lynched the IC >< is there anything specific we should do now?)
Scripten: Yes, I am talking about Deathsword. And, if Deathsword continues to active lurk, then I'll most likely vote on him.How am I active lurking? You could accuse me of lurking and have some merit to those claims (Most of the time I am just browsing the forums from my phone at either class or work, and touchscreens, quotes and formating don't work together, at all). I can only post either at night, when I'm tired, or when I go home between class and work to eat, which is now.
Illgeo and Deathsword: What made Blitz look so scummy? Just a lot of low content posts? How is that different from a new town player wanting to participate but not knowing how to get the ball rolling?Was it this one? Because I answered it in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5464030#msg5464030)
Anailater: My... Opinion? Hmm... Well, our situation is currently slightly shit, what with the losing of one of our own.{Ok, before I do anything else: QUOTE DAMN IT. QUOTE THE QUESTIONS YOU ARE ANSWERING! It's a single click and the only excuse not to do it is using a smartphone to play (which is a bad idea)
Everyone: How 'bout your opinions on our current situation?
{There are always both in this setup. Same goes for scum roleblocker}Well that couldn't have gone any worse....We still have a cop or jailkeeper or maybe both, so it's definitely not as bad as it could be.
I'm actually a little unsure as to what to do now, can i ask for some IC advice?{Exactly because of that is why he was killed. Scum choose targets that can't be traced back to them. A player that only did "ok" is the perfect target.}
And i don't get why Guiddom got killed. He hadn't posted much at all, and had only joined on with everyone else in voting Nerjin. That seems like he'd be way better for scum to keep alive. Is there even much i can read into that? Did they maybe just choose randomly?
Maybe we should all post general reads and/or thoughts? I'm still wondering about why posting reads is good but i have seen it done a lot. (If anyone could answer my previous question as to why it's good and not bad i'd be grateful. I looked on mafiascum but i didn't see anything about it).{Because it forces the player to analyze the posts of others, thus hopefully causing to make a case or catching a slip.}
Scripten: Deflect questions? Mind giving me a list? Probably just didn't notice them.Deflecting isn't missing. Deflecting means you just give a generic answer to a question, you.. shrug it off, so to speak.
Don't know nearly enough about the other players to get a reading, but I don't think Deathsword is scum. Take my word with a grain of salt, though.
Well, I would have thought a different person was scum presumably. Not much else to do.
BlitzDungeoneer: It's not so much that you're avoiding answering questions outright. It's more that you give the absolute minimum amount of information just so you can say "Look, I've answered it!" For example, when I asked about your reads, you gave a single, weak read. Giving out as much information as you can without revealing roles is good town behavior. We want to know who you suspect and why. We want to know where you stand on the situation almost all the time so that we can work off of that. Right now, all I know is that you aren't sure if Deathsword is scum, or want us to think that. What you said could have just as easily been taken as you wanting to get people off of Deathsword's back because you two are a scumteam, want to create suspicion toward Deathsword by suggesting that you are trying to protect him, or that you are a detective role and investigated him. (Don't confirm or deny this, please. We do NOT want the scum to know any roles.) Basically, any which way, you've created a situation that does not help the town by not giving more information on your thought processes by withholding your train of thought. We don't want WIFOM situations. (That is, situations that tell us nothing because the motivations could be one of two completely conflicting sides.) Does that make sense?
Second Deathsword: You also seem very quick to blame me for active lurking without checking your facts. Care to explain why?
Blitz: It would be helpful if you could post some of these facts rather than just telling us there are some.In fact, I'd like you provided a reply to that. What are these "facts" I am not checking?
It would be nice if people told me what questions I haven't answered then.It would be nice if you searched for them instead of just demanding that the question be delivered to you on a platter. As you can see above, yobbo claims I failed to answer a question and I searched for it. Now, I think he just missed my answer, but I did present the question I thought I missed and asked if that's it.
Scripten: So basically, you want me to put far more info in my posts. Okay, I'll try to do that.And then you fail to do that in this very same post.
Second Scripten:Basically what anailater said. How would you suggest we deal with those players that are inactive?First, stop parroting other players. Second, why don't you form your own opinions?
Deathsword: You've posted a lot less than many of us. While those posts have been asking questions, you haven't really been as active as you could be. Could you give your reads on the situation and of each of us? Why do you think Gulddom was stabbed and not one of us more active townies?Most of it I've already addressed. Most read as null to me, but that is because I tend to focus on one or two players at a time until I feel sure they are scum or town, while keeping watch for any slips by others. yobbo feel suspicious to me, but I can't find anything scummy to his posts yet. Blitz feels like lazy scum. Or worse, lazy town.
Scripten: Well how do you suggest we deal with inactive members? Do we pm them, or do you threaten then with your vote/FoS?{Don't PM other players. It's against the rules stated in the OP. If you want to call their attention, ask the GM to prod them.}
Deathsword: You were last online and active on other parts of the forum at about an hour ago. You haven't posted in four days despite the new day and having a quota of questions directed your way. I hate to be that guy, but dude, you're looking really scummy right now just on account of that, not to mention the strange dynamic between you and BlitzDungeoneer that's been evolving... Since everyone else has a post since the day's started, could you please hop on and give us, at the very least, some reads or possibly a rundown of where you feel the situation is?Phone browsing is a wonderful and terrible thing. I fail to see a dynamic with Blitz other than calling him out on being horribly lazy and trying to get him to do real posts. Once again, the rest of your requests is above.
Hmm...Scripten: Yes, I am talking about Deathsword. And, if Deathsword continues to active lurk, then I'll most likely vote on him.How am I active lurking? You could accuse me of lurking and have some merit to those claims (Most of the time I am just browsing the forums from my phone at either class or work, and touchscreens, quotes and formating don't work together, at all). I can only post either at night, when I'm tired, or when I go home between class and work to eat, which is now.
Anailater: My... Opinion? Hmm... Well, our situation is currently slightly shit, what with the losing of one of our own.
Everyone: How 'bout your opinions on our current situation?
{Ok, before I do anything else: QUOTE DAMN IT. QUOTE THE QUESTIONS YOU ARE ANSWERING! It's a single click and the only excuse not to do it is using a smartphone to play (which is a bad idea)I mentiond this earlier, and you have too, but... touchscreens and quotes don't mix very well.
Losing town in the first day (and night) is pretty common. Tragic, but nothing to panic about. It is actually useful because you can go back and read their interactions with others knowing they are town.}
Here you ask a generic, zero-effort question to nobody in particular. And then you accuse me of active-lurking, oh the irony.
Checking if I'm even online. There's one fact. Checking if I posted at all during that time. That's another.Scripten: Deflect questions? Mind giving me a list? Probably just didn't notice them.Deflecting isn't missing. Deflecting means you just give a generic answer to a question, you.. shrug it off, so to speak.
Don't know nearly enough about the other players to get a reading, but I don't think Deathsword is scum. Take my word with a grain of salt, though.
Well, I would have thought a different person was scum presumably. Not much else to do.
Scripten explained quite well:BlitzDungeoneer: It's not so much that you're avoiding answering questions outright. It's more that you give the absolute minimum amount of information just so you can say "Look, I've answered it!" For example, when I asked about your reads, you gave a single, weak read. Giving out as much information as you can without revealing roles is good town behavior. We want to know who you suspect and why. We want to know where you stand on the situation almost all the time so that we can work off of that. Right now, all I know is that you aren't sure if Deathsword is scum, or want us to think that. What you said could have just as easily been taken as you wanting to get people off of Deathsword's back because you two are a scumteam, want to create suspicion toward Deathsword by suggesting that you are trying to protect him, or that you are a detective role and investigated him. (Don't confirm or deny this, please. We do NOT want the scum to know any roles.) Basically, any which way, you've created a situation that does not help the town by not giving more information on your thought processes by withholding your train of thought. We don't want WIFOM situations. (That is, situations that tell us nothing because the motivations could be one of two completely conflicting sides.) Does that make sense?
Here, have an example of something you missed, or ignored:Second Deathsword: You also seem very quick to blame me for active lurking without checking your facts. Care to explain why?Blitz: It would be helpful if you could post some of these facts rather than just telling us there are some.In fact, I'd like you provided a reply to that. What are these "facts" I am not checking?
Okay, I'll try to at least search them up.It would be nice if people told me what questions I haven't answered then.It would be nice if you searched for them instead of just demanding that the question be delivered to you on a platter. As you can see above, yobbo claims I failed to answer a question and I searched for it. Now, I think he just missed my answer, but I did present the question I thought I missed and asked if that's it.
Yep, so much info I can put in a fairly simple question. I mean, there's so much more that I could have put in those questions. Or is there? If there is, I just don't see it.Scripten: So basically, you want me to put far more info in my posts. Okay, I'll try to do that.And then you fail to do that in this very same post.Second Scripten:Basically what anailater said. How would you suggest we deal with those players that are inactive?First, stop parroting other players. Second, why don't you form your own opinions?
Something we can agree on; Phone Browsing.Deathsword: You were last online and active on other parts of the forum at about an hour ago. You haven't posted in four days despite the new day and having a quota of questions directed your way. I hate to be that guy, but dude, you're looking really scummy right now just on account of that, not to mention the strange dynamic between you and BlitzDungeoneer that's been evolving... Since everyone else has a post since the day's started, could you please hop on and give us, at the very least, some reads or possibly a rundown of where you feel the situation is?Phone browsing is a wonderful and terrible thing. I fail to see a dynamic with Blitz other than calling him out on being horribly lazy and trying to get him to do real posts. Once again, the rest of your requests is above.
This is pretty good play. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say, Frostmoon, but I have enough evidence to formulate some points off of it. From what I've seen, it seems more like Illgeo has become more liberal in his use of votes because we've left RVS. Remember that day 2 isn't a separate round as much as it is a continuation of the day before. BlitzDungeoneer has appeared the most scummy to me for a while due to his posting habits. It is possible that I may change my vote if he is no longer appears the most like scum.Mm, point taken. However, his play from before day two still seems rather mutually opposed. And yes, Blitz is starting to seem scummier the farther in we go. Anyway, do any of Deathsword's other posts come off strangely to you, or is it only his first voting post? Does his most recent post alter your read?
Frostmoon -- super friendly with everyone. points suspicion at people one at a time and then backs off. this actually seems a lot to me like buddying and distancing as they've been explained. but frostmoon (along with scripten) actually pushed a lot to get people to talk about buddying which seems like it would be a bad idea if she were actively doing it. then again maybe it's something like "lampshading" where you point something out and people think "oh it can't be that or they wouldn't have said it". i don't know the word for this. maybe it's not even a thing?I'm mostly backing off because while I have a few people giving me a townish read (namely, you and anailater), the people giving a scummy read are sort of dipping out of neutral and, well, scummy. I'd prefer not to lynch town (again), so I'm stepping rather lightly. I'm also finding I'm more of a mass questioner type than a tunneling type. As for your second point (the part about lampshading), I actually have seen that trick used before. Also, how is Scripten "directing people's suspicions"? Are you only following Nerjin's beliefs when it comes to anailater?
{There are always both in this setup. Same goes for scum roleblocker}Well that couldn't have gone any worse....We still have a cop or jailkeeper or maybe both, so it's definitely not as bad as it could be.
One of the following setups is used:Your most recent post seems to focus on yobbo, Blitz, and Scripten. What do you think of the other players?
1. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper.
2. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.
3. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper.
Blitz: Your day one play, although it mostly consisted of active-lurking, made me think of you more as a confused newb townie than a confused newb mafia member. However, your day two deflective play (you're giving short, flowery answers with very little value) and your rather haughty attitude (which, in my opinion, is just another attempt to deflect questions) makes you out to be scummy. Also, you have yet to vote or even FoS once. Is there anyone who you'd vote for? Is there anyone your suspicious of? Do you have any reads at all? Also, please correct me if I'm wrong ICs, but lurking is the act of simply not posting/posting an incredibly small amount, while active-lurking is posting, but posting only low detail things to make it seem like your still in the game without giving any content.Well, like I said, I don't think Deathsword is scum, all things considered. Even if he hasn't posted much, his posts have a high level and quality of content, he has given valid reasons for not being able to posts, some of which I'm able to confirm, particularly the touchscreen issue. I don't have any other reads, though, mostly because I'm shit at reading people's intentions over the internet.
Deathsword: You've posted a lot less than many of us. While those posts have been asking questions, you haven't really been as active as you could be. Could you give your reads on the situation and of each of us? Why do you think Gulddom was stabbed and not one of us more active townies?Most of it I've already addressed. Most read as null to me, but that is because I tend to focus on one or two players at a time until I feel sure they are scum or town, while keeping watch for any slips by others. yobbo feel suspicious to me, but I can't find anything scummy to his posts yet. Blitz feels like lazy scum. Or worse, lazy town.
-snip-Deathsword: You were last online and active on other parts of the forum at about an hour ago. You haven't posted in four days despite the new day and having a quota of questions directed your way. I hate to be that guy, but dude, you're looking really scummy right now just on account of that, not to mention the strange dynamic between you and BlitzDungeoneer that's been evolving... Since everyone else has a post since the day's started, could you please hop on and give us, at the very least, some reads or possibly a rundown of where you feel the situation is?Phone browsing is a wonderful and terrible thing. I fail to see a dynamic with Blitz other than calling him out on being horribly lazy and trying to get him to do real posts. Once again, the rest of your requests is above.
Hmm...
That's what I assumed Scripten was accusing you of, which seemed accurate at the time of the post, what with the 'not posting in 4 days despite being online 1 hour ago'. You were using a moblie, then? Explains somewhat, but I'm able to use a mobile just fine with quotes. Most of the time. iPods and large quotes don't mix very well, particularly when I have to delete bits of the post.
Does someone mind explaining the difference between active lurking and just lurking, by the way? I'm slightly confused, since they seem interchangeable most of the time from what I've seen in both this agme and the One-day Mafia I was in, but with this post I'm not so sure.
-snip-I mentiond this earlier, and you have too, but... touchscreens and quotes don't mix very well.Losing town on the first day is normal? That's good to know, thanks.
Yes a generic question from a complete noob. What are the odds?But yeah, it was generic, and nobody asked it at the time, so I felt it should be asked.
-snip-
Checking if I'm even online. There's one fact. Checking if I posted at all during that time. That's another.
-snip-Okay, I'll try to at least search them up.
-snip-
Yep, so much info I can put in a fairly simple question.I mean, there's so much more that I could have put in those questions. Or is there? If there is, I just don't see it.
As for the parroting; I thought it was a valid question.
Opinions on what? There is nothing for me to form an opinion on so far. Probably.
-snip-Something we can agree on; Phone Browsing.
Apologies for the late post. I haven't been near my computer for most of the day.
Frostmoon: To be honest I'm not sure what I expect. I have read through a couple of previous mafia threads and have a good idea of how play works though.
Illgeo: I've never played mafia before. I have played a couple similar games such as One Night Ultimate Werewolf and The Resistance however.
Scripten: I'm not sure how to separate inexperience with scum tells.
Second Frostmoon It seems like active lurking is one of the most major scum tells similar to what Blitzdungeon has done.
yobbo So far I'm not leaning towards anyone being scum except for possibly Blitzdungeon who I am suspicious of. Although this could just be inexperience.
Gulddom: Welcome to the game! :3 So, why is Blitz scummier than everyone else? Is there anyone that's giving you a townie vibe, or is everyone else either neutral or null?Frostmoon: I explained in my post earlier Blitz has been guilty of a lot of active lurking and tried to rolefish. (Although I think the rolefishing was an honest mistake.) I don't have any real leanings towards anyone else being scum or townies.Quote from: yobboGuiddom: Who do you think hasn't posted enough to get a good read on, and why aren't you asking them questions?Yobbo: Blitz hasn't posted much recently. As to the questions. I honestly was a bit overwhelmed at all of the information and couldn't think of anything.
Blitz: Do you think that playing dumb would be a good scum tactic for a player's first few games?
Everyone: I'm still a bit confused about the idea's of buddying and distancing. Could someone explain that to me?
Gulddom: Welcome to the game! :3 So, why is Blitz scummier than everyone else? Is there anyone that's giving you a townie vibe, or is everyone else either neutral or null?Frostmoon: I explained in my post earlier Blitz has been guilty of a lot of active lurking and tried to rolefish. (Although I think the rolefishing was an honest mistake.) I don't have any real leanings towards anyone else being scum or townies.Quote from: yobboGuiddom: Who do you think hasn't posted enough to get a good read on, and why aren't you asking them questions?Yobbo: Blitz hasn't posted much recently. As to the questions. I honestly was a bit overwhelmed at all of the information and couldn't think of anything.
Blitz: Do you think that playing dumb would be a good scum tactic for a player's first few games?
Everyone: I'm still a bit confused about the idea's of buddying and distancing. Could someone explain that to me?
Gulddom: Welcome to the game! :3 So, why is Blitz scummier than everyone else? Is there anyone that's giving you a townie vibe, or is everyone else either neutral or null?Frostmoon: I explained in my post earlier Blitz has been guilty of a lot of active lurking and tried to rolefish. (Although I think the rolefishing was an honest mistake.) I don't have any real leanings towards anyone else being scum or townies.Quote from: yobboGuiddom: Who do you think hasn't posted enough to get a good read on, and why aren't you asking them questions?Yobbo: Blitz hasn't posted much recently. As to the questions. I honestly was a bit overwhelmed at all of the information and couldn't think of anything.
Blitz: Do you think that playing dumb would be a good scum tactic for a player's first few games?
Everyone: I'm still a bit confused about the idea's of buddying and distancing. Could someone explain that to me?
Blitz: It would be helpful if you could post some of these facts rather than just telling us there are some.
[/spoiler]Nerjin: I know this is the internet and all, but it seems like you're coming across are really hostile towards everyone which is not the way I would think to go about proving I'm not scum. Also this bit you posted earlier has been bothering me.Spoiler: anailater (click to show/hide)
AnailaterSpoiler: Frostmoon (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Scripten (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Yobbo (click to show/hide)game ends less than six hours
Oh... Um... well I guess good game everyone? I didn't know this was a one lynch mafia.QuoteWell, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.You tell us to press you if we see something suspicious yet you get defensive when we do. And while I'm still suspicious of Blitz, I'm voting for you due to the reasoning you gave in your post.
Yobbo: At the end of D1 you claimed I failed to answer a question. However, after reading it quite a few times, I haven't found that question. If you still want it answered, could you ask it again?It's not really that important as it was just a random question. It was this one:Illgeo and Deathsword: What made Blitz look so scummy? Just a lot of low content posts? How is that different from a new town player wanting to participate but not knowing how to get the ball rolling?Was it this one? Because I answered it in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5464030#msg5464030)
Deathsword: Assuming Nerjin is scum, what will you do to make sure players learn the most from the experience?At the time i saw not answering questions (even irrelevant ones) as kind of scummy, so i mentioned it, but i don't think it needs an answer now.
Blitz: Who seems more suspicious: yobbo or anailater?
Scripten: I can't really comment on this.Why not? Are you trying to hide something?
Frostmoon: The fact that anailater was quick to cast suspicion, but scared to use the vote.Scum are pretty self-centering, since the game does revolve around their existence. If people are fuzzy because they haven't commented on you maybe it's because you don't feel your scum-status threatened by them? Why yobbo and anailater suspicious?
I don't feel much on the other players, really. There isn't much to feel, since a majority of them haven't commented on me or my actions in the slightest. That said, both yobbo and anailater seem suspicious.
Everyone: First of all, I'm female. Second of all, although this question is a bit late, are you guys surprised by Gulddom's and Nerjin's alignment flip?I wasn't at all sure Guiddom was town but i'm not surprised. As for Nerjin… i don't think susprised is the right word for it. Some of the stuff he was saying towards the end of the day seemed really weird for scum (like fingering anailater, obviously to give us his last thoughts, which meant that he thought it'd be worth-while to do so, which would only be the case if he came up town), but not weird enough for me to think he wasn't still the most scummy. So i guess i wouldn't've been surprised at all if he had turned out to be scum. But wasn't as surprised as i could've been that he didn't.
yobbo:Yes, when it comes to anailater all i really have against him is Nerjin's opinion, which i'm giving more weight to now that i know Nerjin was definitely town. I'm still pretty convinced by the results of my initial attack (on anailater).Frostmoon -- super friendly with everyone. points suspicion at people one at a time and then backs off. this actually seems a lot to me like buddying and distancing as they've been explained. but frostmoon (along with scripten) actually pushed a lot to get people to talk about buddying which seems like it would be a bad idea if she were actively doing it. then again maybe it's something like "lampshading" where you point something out and people think "oh it can't be that or they wouldn't have said it". i don't know the word for this. maybe it's not even a thing?I'm mostly backing off because while I have a few people giving me a townish read (namely, you and anailater), the people giving a scummy read are sort of dipping out of neutral and, well, scummy. I'd prefer not to lynch town (again), so I'm stepping rather lightly. I'm also finding I'm more of a mass questioner type than a tunneling type. As for your second point (the part about lampshading), I actually have seen that trick used before. Also, how is Scripten "directing people's suspicions"? Are you only following Nerjin's beliefs when it comes to anailater?
Blitz: Who seems more suspicious: yobbo or anailater?Currently? Yobbo, as he has blatantly ignored my post in which I said that I probably missed a question, and proceeded to say that since I didn't answer these, I'm super scummy. To quote a certain IC; Fun fact, I'm human. I miss things soemtimes. Go figure, right? I mean, it's totally impossible for a person to not notice something.
Nope. It's the simple fact that I am unable to provide an answer to the question. I didn't know (and still don't) how I'm going to seperate Mafia slip-ups from inexperience.Scripten: I can't really comment on this.Why not? Are you trying to hide something?
1. I don't understand that question. Mind rephrasing it?Frostmoon: The fact that anailater was quick to cast suspicion, but scared to use the vote.Scum are pretty self-centering, since the game does revolve around their existence. If people are fuzzy because they haven't commented on you maybe it's because you don't feel your scum-status threatened by them? Why yobbo and anailater suspicious?
I don't feel much on the other players, really. There isn't much to feel, since a majority of them haven't commented on me or my actions in the slightest. That said, both yobbo and anailater seem suspicious.
Make accusations? What do you take this for? A game of Maf- oh wait.The valid point being anailater was quick to cast suspicion, but scared to actually vote. I'm not entirely convinced on the whole scared part, though. More like... reluctant.
Well, yobbo certainly seemed quick to accuse, so he's suspicious. Not voting yet, but it seems likely. However, he does bring up a valid point about anailater, so he is also a suspect.
In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
So I see. You noticed it so much you blatantly ignored it.In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
Not at all.So I see. You noticed it so much you blatantly ignored it.In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
What yobbo means here, I think, is that you mentioning that you might've missed questions does not excuse you from answering them. Furthermore, bringing up the questions you missed and calling you on it is not scummy behavior.Not at all.So I see. You noticed it so much you blatantly ignored it.In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
Is this a question?What yobbo means here, I think, is that you mentioning that you might've missed questions does not excuse you from answering them. Furthermore, bringing up the questions you missed and calling you on it is not scummy behavior.Not at all.So I see. You noticed it so much you blatantly ignored it.In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
Frostmoon: First of all, apologies for not looking up your gender. My bad, there. As far as Illgeo goes, he is fairly scummy, but it's hard to tell with the way that BlitzDungeoneer is playing. If he [Blitz], is town, then my first target would be Illgeo, since a lot of my suspicion for Deathsword is from the way BlitzDungeoneer is acting toward him. You are right that Deathsword's most recent post does change my opinion a bit, but I am definitely keeping my FoS on him. As for Gulddom, his flip gave next to no information to me. I thought he was most likely town to begin with and I will admit that choosing him left very little trace back to scum.Don't worry about the gender thing; I was expecting someone to slip up on it. :3 Why did you believe that Gulddom was (most likely) town before he was nightkilled?
PFPIt's fine. :3 A high suggestion, though, is to ask other people questions, even if they're generic. Anyway, I noticed that your reads didn't include Deathsword. What's your opinion on him? Does yobbo still feel at all scummy to you? Could you please explain your section on Illgeo? What do you find weird about Scripten's interactions with me?
Frostmoon: To explain my shortness : My laptop is currently dead, and as such I've been posting from my phone, which as mentioned above really sucks, so it's quite hard to write full length posts, but I'll try to write abit more.
To explain my quietness: No one was addressing questions to me at the time so I wasn't posting much, but I have been reading, so I'm aware of the allegations towards Blitz and Deathsword.
Frostmoon:Hard to say.Why does Blitz look like scum/newbie town? Why do I look townish? Why does Deathsword, whom certain people believe might be scum, look townish to you? Does the rest of the group fall under neutral/null?
Blitz looks scum or very newbie town.
You and Deathswors look townish.
Hard to say about others.
Yes, when it comes to anailater all i really have against him is Nerjin's opinion, which i'm giving more weight to now that i know Nerjin was definitely town. I'm still pretty convinced by the results of my initial attack (on anailater).Your initial attack on anailater? What makes you feel so confident about it's results? Also, your paragraph on Scripten is not silly. Anything-and I mean anything-that you find suspicious should be noted mentally, even if it mostly consists of gut feeling. Besides, your gut isn't the only one that seems to hate Scripten; using only that, I'd also be fingering him.
As for how Scripten is directing suspicions… i don't even know. I read back over his recent posts to try to figure out what gave me that feeling, but there's nothing i can point to. It's just a really persistent feeling. I don't think it's enough to go on at all. And i think it could be just that he's trying to get people to be active by saying things like "being active is good for town", and that gives me the feeling that he's also saying "so those who aren't must be scum, hinthint". But it's true that being active is good for town, and important to say it, especially now. I feel silly even typing this all out -.-
Some shtuff about quoting people.Got it. I've also seen "Snip" used in place of a full quote.
Well, like I said, I don't think Deathsword is scum, all things considered. Even if he hasn't posted much, his posts have a high level and quality of content, he has given valid reasons for not being able to posts, some of which I'm able to confirm, particularly the touchscreen issue. I don't have any other reads, though, mostly because I'm shit at reading people's intentions over the internet.You're welcome about the info. :3 However, why focus on Deathsword in that paragraph? How does yobbo, who you later say is scummier than anailater, compare to Deathsword?
Thanks for the info on lurking and active-lurking, by the way.
So...
I'm out of the game so soon? Meh.
Before I go, I want to say;
It's been fun guys, and I can see why some enjoy it. I did I this game. I wonder if I should even post for the rest of the game... Not like it would make a difference. This post probably marks me as scummy in everybody else's minds as it is.
PFPply seems far scummier than Deathsword. I don't know why, but... he just feels scummy, ya know?
Frostmoon:I'm focusing on Deathsword because, at the time, he was the only person I had any sort of read on.
I'm not entirely certain what you mean by 'compare' but I'll at least try to answer; Yobbo sim
PFPAh. That's what I meant by 'compare.' So, gut feeling tells you that yobbo is scummy. Huh. Well, is there anyone else you have a read on?
Frostmoon:I'm focusing on Deathsword because, at the time, he was the only person I had any sort of read on.
I'm not entirely certain what you mean by 'compare' but I'll at least try to answer; Yobbo simply seems far scummier than Deathsword. I don't know why, but... he just feels scummy, ya know?
Also, fucking iPods and their randomly turning-off keyboards...
Illgeo: It looks like almost all of your reads are neutral. Does that mean everyone is on equal footing in your eyes, or do you consider some more scummy than others?A little suspicion about you and anailater, but noting more
[Detailed reads]Hm. I find it interesting that although you believe that "he [Blitz] may be inexperienced town", yet you keep your vote on him. Why is that? Why is it hard to say anything about anailater? What do you mean by "a little harsh" when referring to yobbo?
...I don't know whom else to vote.
You seemed quite happy to just keep your vote on him but not try to press for answers, or answer these. As you yourself said (in the doublepost part that was the actual question which you didn't quote to Blitz):That's... Not a question. Still, I'll try to answer it.So, Blitz.Nothing in particular, but some examples would be;You're showing everything you said is first day scumtell to you.
Not participating much without providing a good reason.
Asking suspicious questions.
Also, you said some people suspicious for you, yet you aren't trying to pressure them.
1. I did provide a reason most of the time though. Namely, blackouts followed by a family gathering.
2. Which questions are suspicious to you?
3. Pressure them? How, exactly? I've literally only played 1 game and never read any, so not entirely certain how I'm supposed to do that.
On a side note, you seemed awfully quick to accuse me of deflecting questions without even telling me which ones. That seems strange, no?
Care to explain yourself?
yobbo:I'm just really sure that if anailater was scum who got the first serious vote right off the bat for something that was actually a valid point, then he would have had a different reaction. Much more "oh shit i messed up" and trying to backpedal and fix things. But it didn't feel like that at all. In stead it was exactly how someone would react if they were thinking "i'm town so why is he attacking me? maybe because he's scum?". …Huh. Now there's an example of something that makes more sense when i type it out.Yes, when it comes to anailater all i really have against him is Nerjin's opinion, which i'm giving more weight to now that i know Nerjin was definitely town. I'm still pretty convinced by the results of my initial attack (on anailater).Your initial attack on anailater? What makes you feel so confident about it's results? Also, your paragraph on Scripten is not silly. Anything-and I mean anything-that you find suspicious should be noted mentally, even if it mostly consists of gut feeling. Besides, your gut isn't the only one that seems to hate Scripten; using only that, I'd also be fingering him.
As for how Scripten is directing suspicions… i don't even know. I read back over his recent posts to try to figure out what gave me that feeling, but there's nothing i can point to. It's just a really persistent feeling. I don't think it's enough to go on at all. And i think it could be just that he's trying to get people to be active by saying things like "being active is good for town", and that gives me the feeling that he's also saying "so those who aren't must be scum, hinthint". But it's true that being active is good for town, and important to say it, especially now. I feel silly even typing this all out -.-
Scripten: Ever since your second post, my gut has believed that your scum, despite you actually explaining your alleged evasiveness.
Illgeo: That post about not blindly trusting someone although they look justified stops me from believing your scum, despite your somewhat contradictory day one play.
anailater: I heavily believe he's town, due to his question to me about how not to get night-killed. Why would scum ask that question in a setting where there's no third parties or townies with kills?
Secind Extend!Alright, I'll let it slide. Technically two minutes too late, but this isn't an exact science.
Anailater is seeming slightly suspicious with the exclamation marks. I know it's probably meant to represent angry yelling, but in my head it sounds like a desperate person's shouts.Just so you know It's really suspicious shen you say things like "be ready for a surprise"
Weird.
And all things considered, I am out of the game, so be ready for a surprise just before the end.
...Well, I was still voting him because he seems scumiest to me. I don't realy know how to press him. Which is pretty much answer to his third question.
Scripten: I'm vaguely familiar with him, so I kinda know his posting style. Not much else, really. Here's a question for you;Ah, here it is.
Which role do you think I have?
Yobbo: Are you serious? Anailater posts an all-caps vote on a player you don't even believe to be most scummy and you follow right along with him? Along with pointing the FoS at everyone except for TWO players, one of whom is yourself? And this is after this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5489992#msg5489992) where you say that Blitz stays on the radar tomorrow if we don't lynch him today. Do you realize how scummy that looks?Yeah, i realize how scummy it looks. But as far as not believing Deathsword to be scummy that isn't the case at all.
If you think I'm the most scummy, then vote me or keep your vote where it will mean something. If we have a tie then we have a no-lynch night and risk losing a power role without even a chance of a scum lynch.
Yobbo: You've been saying that I look scummy because I am too clear and do not seem to confront people. Does it make sense for me to become defensive? There's no game-related reason for me to worry too much about being lynched. If I die, I still win if the town does, so I'm going to continue probing into other players as much as possible. Of course, I don't want to die, but the point of the game is to play to your win condition, so the more I can scumhunt, the better.It's not because you're being too clear and not confronting people. I mentioned above that i don't want to press this now. But if you still don't understand why i'm voting Deathsword and not you, i can try to better explain.
Also can you explain something to me why is it that when Yobbo first changes his vote you don't get all angry and defensive, but once I explain myself you do?I think his first post after mine was what he was going to say before i posted it, it's timestamped just 2 minutes after i posted. And the second was in response to my post and yours.
Why i'm not voting you, i have some reasons for that. I don't want to get onto your case until tomorrow. (assuming i live that long, but i don't think i'd be the best target to nightkill.) I do have more reasons for suspecting you now than i did when i originally pressed you over what i now mostly think is just your cautious style.
Scripten: Firstly, why are you blowing up over this? I followed my thoughts on that post outside of posts, in my mind, where I usually think and I came to the conclusion that if I were scum I would try to stay as unassuming as possible, as DeathSword was doing, even you agreed he was doing it! So I'm not voting despite what I said I'm voting because of what I said.
As for avoiding questions, I have asked him several since the extension, and he has responded to none of them, despite the suspicion I've placed on him, to me that sounds like him trying to avoid a last minute vote turn around, which is what's happening.
Also can you explain something to me why is it that when Yobbo first changes his vote you don't get all angry and defensive, but once I explain myself you do?
PFP
You do realise by saying that you have painted a target on both of you if he isn't scum, if your night killed people will assume its Yobbo and if Yobbo isn't scum then two Town have died just because your both being petty.
PFP
I have more to say on this, but if I get stabbed in the night, Yobbo is confirmed scum.
Secondly, and most importantly, you ask why scum would put forth a question like anailater's. Well, it seems to me that you now think he's town merely for asking that. Don't you think that could be a reason for choosing such a question? (That is, not so much for the answer as much as for the reputation for asking.) I'm not saying anailater is scum, necessarily. I'm just pointing something that seems to have been missed.It also felt like you were doing the exact same thing to me:
Yobbo: You've been saying that I look scummy because I am too clear and do not seem to confront people. Does it make sense for me to become defensive? There's no game-related reason for me to worry too much about being lynched. If I die, I still win if the town does, so I'm going to continue probing into other players as much as possible. Of course, I don't want to die, but the point of the game is to play to your win condition, so the more I can scumhunt, the better.this feels to me like trying to use extra time to stir up confusion, while Blitz's lynch is still pretty much assured (it was posted at the same time as i switched my vote, so written before).
Umm.
So here's the reason i didn't want to bring up what suspicions i have about you now.
I thought you were a cop.
-snip-
So either you're vanilla town and you just painted a great big target on yourself saying "hey scum kill me and everyone will think it's yobbo".
Or you're scum, and you know that you won't be nightkilled anyway, so you can say whatever you want about what would happen if you get stabbed in the night, because you won't.
So because there's no reason anymore to tiptoe round it, these are the things that i wanted to point to that you've done that i think are scummy.
I already mentioned the "only active towns become victorious" thing that made me feel like you were setting up who to lynch. I don't think there's a strong argument that this is scummy, but it just felt off to me. here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5478568#msg5478568) for example.
Much more suspicious is that in that post you also point out the idea behind why WIFOM is bad. But later you seem to actively be applying WIFOM to Frostmoon, saying-snip-It also felt like you were doing the exact same thing to me:-snip-this feels to me like trying to use extra time to stir up confusion, while Blitz's lynch is still pretty much assured (it was posted at the same time as i switched my vote, so written before).
here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5477265#msg5477265) you clearly point suspicion at Deathsword and also clearly vote Blitz. But now when it looks like there's a chance Deathsword might get lynched in stead of Blitz you get very aggressive against those voting Deathsword. That makes me think that there's a strong possibility that the earlier suspicion post wasn't really suspicion but distancing, and that you fully expected the Blitz lynch to be a foregone conclusion. But now you're worried that your scumbuddy might get lynched, and reacting accordingly. You've even been trying to goad me into voting you, to split the vote on Deathsword.
here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5480822#msg5480822) for example you're making a big point of saying that your case on deathsword depends almost entirely on Blitz being scum. This along with your aggressive protection of Deathsword makes me feel like you're trying to set up a situation where Deathsword is exonerated when Blitz comes up town.
There's still not much there i can point at, which is why i thought it could wait, and thought it would be fine if i died and noone heard it.
And a lot of it feels like it relies on you being in a scumteam with Deathsword. Which is a large part of why i'm voting Deathsword and not you. (i think i already explained the rest).
And as far as me and anailater being a scumteam, if we were both mafia there's no way i would jump over and vote Deathsword in a situation like this. The only votes on him would be ours, and it wouldn't even be a majority. If we were the scumteam then Blitz would be town and there would be no reason not to just let him be lynched.
As for parallel arguments i think that two people coming to the same conclusion for the same reasons makes them both more likely to be right.
Maybe there's a possibility anailater and Blitz are a scumteam and anailater's trying to save him and i'm being suckered, but i don't think so.
Just quickly running thru the remaining points i don't think i've answered:
I don't think the thing i brought up when i unvoted anailater was a rule disagreement. This is my first game. I was really unsure whether what i was doing was maybe horrendously wrong (i don't think it was now).
The question Nerjin asked anailater… "why did you ask about avoiding being night-killed?". I thought that was a scummy thing to ask. Especially with all you'd been saying about how anything that might risk outing third parties was a really bad thing to be doing. Presumably you did too.
In regards to not putting real pressure on anailater, a vote that looks like it is serious is a vote that has pressure. I think you're wilfully misinterpreting this.
PFP
Scripten: I'm not entirely sure what this question means. I'm fairly certain that, when I asked that question, you mentioned not to rolefish, so there's a mention. I think some other people accused me of it as well.
Inconsistency? I did say it was suspicious, yes, but that doesn't mean you can just be like 'OMG he's rolefishing' when the question specifically asks what role you think I have, not what roles everybody else has.
Has the day not ended yet?
If you mean my post itself, that was merely a clarification.Is this a question?What yobbo means here, I think, is that you mentioning that you might've missed questions does not excuse you from answering them. Furthermore, bringing up the questions you missed and calling you on it is not scummy behavior.Not at all.So I see. You noticed it so much you blatantly ignored it.In response to yobbo's post: I mentioned I probably missed some questions, yes? You seem to have blatantly ignored this.Oh i noticed.
And by that, I mean am I supposed to respond to this or is it rhetoric?
So...{You are clearly new, so it doesn't. It would normally. Still, you are not out until you are out. Keep playing.}
I'm out of the game so soon? Meh.
Before I go, I want to say;
It's been fun guys, and I can see why some enjoy it. I did I this game. I wonder if I should even post for the rest of the game... Not like it would make a difference. This post probably marks me as scummy in everybody else's minds as it is.
Deathsword: You don't seem at all unhappy with how things currently are. Maybe this seems something like "situation normal" to you? I notice you're not voting Blitz, even tho you were on Day 1, and are still questioning him. Does he seem less scummy to you now than he did then?I forgot to vote for him. It's quite embarassing, really. He seems very ambiguous right now, and that, to me, is a very bad thing. The reason why is that his "newbiness" {By the way, Blitz, please don't take this as an insult or anything. I actually flailed way harder in my first game.} is... muddying up the waters, for lack of a better term. If he flips, I can see how everyone interacted with him and go from there.
Deathsword: Wgat do you think of the things I said about the lack of value in your posts!Could you clarify? My posts do tend towards the laconic, but I believe I actually put content into them, even if you don't think its relevant.
DEATHSWORD!: Answer my question or I'll be forced to act on my suspicions without your input!Weekend and stuff. My post count drops significantly in weekends. Expect that kind of thing.
If deathsword doesn't respond in the next hour, I'm changing my vote to him irregardless, he's dodging questions and my gut says he's not trustworthy.{Not posting != dodging questions. Just to clear out the terminology. You could have accused me of lurking, but dodging questions would be me answering your questions with "I don't care either way", "maybe", "meh", etc}
{I forgot to mention this during the last weekend, but weekends themselves don't count as far as game-time goes. This means inactivity is often excused as long as said inactivity took place exclusively during the weekend.}
I forgot to vote for him. It's quite embarassing, really. He seems very ambiguous right now, and that, to me, is a very bad thing. The reason why is that his "newbiness" {By the way, Blitz, please don't take this as an insult or anything. I actually flailed way harder in my first game.} is... muddying up the waters, for lack of a better term. If he flips, I can see how everyone interacted with him and go from there.
-snip-
If Blitz flips town then I think I got at least half the scum team figured out.
Anailater: If you're going to make a case against someone, then you need to be able to cite some sort of specifics. Bring up cases of where this sort of things has happened. you don't need to quote everything, but as long as you refer to it somehow, we can all know where you're coming from and, possibly, agree with you. Do you have a computer you can access? It seems a little unfair to the town if you're able to avoid answering questions because you're always using your phone.As I've already stated the problem isn't a quite able thing, it's just a very string feeling I have, I can't explain why and if I try then I just end up making holes in my own argument, I never said that that I was right in my suspicions, only that I believed in what I was saying, if that makes me suspicious that makes me suspicious, but at the very least I can say that everything I did, I did because I thought if wad right.
So, basically, you can't make a case after the person you confronted actually replies to you? How do you expect people to agree with you if you don't even know why you're voting a certain way?I DON'T KNOW! Right now in trying to roll with the lunches and get my point across, but I'm really bad at that! Add in the fact that no ones willing to point out the fact that I'm just as new, if not newer, to this game than Blitz and I get flustered, I'm not going to change my opinion, and your nit going to change yours, in a few more hours Blitz will be voted out and someone will be night killed, you'll most likely have your own opinions by then, as will I (Assuming we're not dead......) Im honestly just trying to help Town win, just not very well.
So you are voting me based on the most mystic and arcane reasons of"I don't know" and yobbo is going with it. Good to know. Maybe you thought I'd be an easy lynch because I was absent, and now that scripten is calling you out on that, you panic.So, basically, you can't make a case after the person you confronted actually replies to you? How do you expect people to agree with you if you don't even know why you're voting a certain way?I DON'T KNOW! Right now in trying to roll with the lunches and get my point across, but I'm really bad at that! Add in the fact that no ones willing to point out the fact that I'm just as new, if not newer, to this game than Blitz and I get flustered, I'm not going to change my opinion, and your nit going to change yours, in a few more hours Blitz will be voted out and someone will be night killed, you'll most likely have your own opinions by then, as will I (Assuming we're not dead......) Im honestly just trying to help Town win, just not very well.
As for why people joined, I don't know? Maybe Yobbo just agreed with me, maybe he was trying to stop the pending lynch of Blitz, who can say until the end?
PFP
Then explain this to me, if scum team is me and Yobbo, why did I intervene? Sure you could make a case of Blitz is less threatening but he would also still be town, and if we were scum and we went after you because we were threatens, why not go after you during the night time, as was mentioned several people forgot you were even playing, so I assume it wouldn't give many clues as to who did it. While I understand my logic is flawed I never once tried to force people to agree, I came to my own conclusions and acted on them, that's it.So you are voting me based on the most mystic and arcane reasons of"I don't know" and yobbo is going with it. Good to know. Maybe you thought I'd be an easy lynch because I was absent, and now that scripten is calling you out on that, you panic.So, basically, you can't make a case after the person you confronted actually replies to you? How do you expect people to agree with you if you don't even know why you're voting a certain way?I DON'T KNOW! Right now in trying to roll with the lunches and get my point across, but I'm really bad at that! Add in the fact that no ones willing to point out the fact that I'm just as new, if not newer, to this game than Blitz and I get flustered, I'm not going to change my opinion, and your nit going to change yours, in a few more hours Blitz will be voted out and someone will be night killed, you'll most likely have your own opinions by then, as will I (Assuming we're not dead......) Im honestly just trying to help Town win, just not very well.
As for why people joined, I don't know? Maybe Yobbo just agreed with me, maybe he was trying to stop the pending lynch of Blitz, who can say until the end?
PFP
If blitz flips town, scum team is most likely anailater and yobbo are scum.
{the day ends only when the mod posts the end of day post. Until then, it keeps going.}
Deathsword is an IC and Blitz is very, very scummy. If we lynch Deathsword today, Blitz is still going to be the scummiest come tomorrow, meaning he's likely to be lynched. That's two nights of mislynches if you two are a scumteam. Pretty much the game in a bag.
and if we were scum and we went after you because we were threatensAnailater: Why are you threatened? As scripten mentioned, I never said anything about that. All I said is that you saw an easy lynch and jumped on it.
Then explain this to me, if scum team is me and Yobbo, why did I intervene?Intefere where? Blitz being lynched? Something else? Clarify.
Sure you could make a case of Blitz is less threatening but he would also still be town,So you know for a fact that Blitz is town?
Hiwe er i do hace one question if you kill blitz and he's scum what then?Blitz being scum does not exonerate you from being scum. It merely reduces the number of suspects.
why not go after you during the night time, as was mentioned several people forgot you were even playing, so I assume it wouldn't give many clues as to who did it.Because I was the easy lynch there. Easy lynch > night target
Might as well use this time.I don't really know. As I said, both of them are bit suspicious to me but not very scummy
Everyone except Deathsword: What do you all think about the idea of an anailater/yobbo scumteam? If you agree, then, of those two players, whom do you feel is the scummiest?
Deathsword: If you'll notice in all of the quotes you made there, apart from the last one, I was talking in the hypothetical, I was not saying that I was threatens, or that Blitz was town, all I said was that in the confines of the situation you brought up, Blitz town me and Yobbo Scum, that my actions still don't make sense, and can you explain why lunches are better than night kills? It seems to me that it's based on the actual situation, rather than an is or isn't, and yes I was talking about interfering with the vote.and if we were scum and we went after you because we were threatensAnailater: Why are you threatened? As scripten mentioned, I never said anything about that. All I said is that you saw an easy lynch and jumped on it.Then explain this to me, if scum team is me and Yobbo, why did I intervene?Intefere where? Blitz being lynched? Something else? Clarify.Sure you could make a case of Blitz is less threatening but he would also still be town,So you know for a fact that Blitz is town?Hiwe er i do hace one question if you kill blitz and he's scum what then?Blitz being scum does not exonerate you from being scum. It merely reduces the number of suspects.why not go after you during the night time, as was mentioned several people forgot you were even playing, so I assume it wouldn't give many clues as to who did it.Because I was the easy lynch there. Easy lynch > night target
While Blitz's flip would be a nice thing to have, I think there is sufficient reason to get at least one of the scum today.
Uttering *suspicious* phrases won't change much.Which of anailater's phrases did you find suspicious? Is your suspicion only due to his use of exclamation points?
Anailaters list of Reads and feelings V1Yes, I'm quoting your reads again. You actually excluded two people from this list: Deathsword and Nerjin. We now all know why you excluded Deathsword, but why was Nerjin not on that list? You included Gulddom, who, much akin to Nerjin, was--and still is--dead. Also, in your Gulddom analysis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5481177#msg5481177) post, you note that Gulddom might've "killed off because he knew that Blitz was scum," yet now you seem to be under the general belief that Blitz is probably town. What made you shift your opinion on Blitz?
Frostmoon: Seems very much town and very helpful, hasn't give any major scum tells that ive seen and is tied with Scripten for least scummy.
Scripten: See above, though I'll admit it's weird how intend the two are with each other...
yobbo: Despite the early game suspicions I had Yobbo doesn't come across as overtly scummy to me anymore, however he could post a teensy bit more.
anailater: Man he's one cool guy.
Gulddom: His death didn't tell us much did it.. I still need to go over his old posts though.
BlitzDungeoneer: Man the hole just keeps going deeper, he makes some good arguments but my gut is telling me he's not trustworthy however it told me the same thing about Nerjin so... Yeah.
Illgeo: Only seems to he posting very small posts, and not very often quite suspicious.
If Blitz flips town then I think I got at least half the scum team figured out.Hm. Why is this person incompatible/less likely to be scum with Blitz? Also, in one of your second post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5452059#msg5452059) you say that you "feel it's just both [anailater and yobbo] trying to determine if the other is scum," implying that you believed anailater and yobbo to have been town. Obviously, in anailater's case, this has drastically changed. Is it just for his attack on you? How do you currently feel about yobbo?
Uttering *suspicious* phrases won't change much.Which of anailater's phrases did you find suspicious? Is your suspicion only due to his use of exclamation points?
Illgeo: Does Blitz still feel scummiest to you? How does he compare with anailater and Deathsword, who both also have votes? What do you think about the yobbo/Scripten conflict?Both anailater and blitz seems about same scumminess level now.
GOD DAMMIT!
I told you Blitz wasn't Scum! But no one listened to me, so I'm going to work based entirely off the end of the last round, which was based mostly on the conflict behind me and Scripten.
First! I am wrong about Deathsword, he had good reasons to not post and I apologise for demonising him incorrectly.
Second, I will be inestigating the posts of Scripten when I get home, especially the parts where he said that if Blitz wasn't scum I was, which would make sense from a Scum perspective, he knew Blitz wasn't scum and set it up for me to take the fall when the truth wax revealed.
Scripten: DO YOU STAND BY YOUR SUSPICIONS OF ME?
Yobbo: You changed your bite from Blitz, to Deathswkrd and back to Blitz, Why?
Everyone: Wehavent lynched a single scum yet, WHY?
NINJA EDIT SCRIPTEN: how am I obvi-Scum, I tried to stop people voting Blitz, a lynch you had the biggest say in, I voted extend twice and spent the entire time reasoning, none of these are scum actions, your just OMGUSing because I didn't agree with you!
I know that was directed at Deathsword, but I already answered your question. Plus, nobody said you were threatened. What he said was that you tried to make a case on him while he was absent and, thus, an easy target. That's why I called you out on it, since you're not concentrating on scumminess, but rather the easiest (at the time) lynch target.
Deathsword: While I agree with you changing your vote, I question why you would do so this late in the day (Well past the cutoff) when you are risking a no-lynch night.
Scripten: And the easy target respond is still flaky! Lets say im scum, Blitz was just as easy and less risky for me, if I was was Scum and wanted Death dead I would have night lynched him and saved the problems that would make me suspicious and your still ignoring the fact that the guy I was defending was Town! If he was scum I would understand the suspicions but he wasn't, he was so not scum he was Cop, yes he was suspicious so maybe my point of you voting for him was null I'll give you that, but my gut was trustkwrthy that time, can't it be right twice? He'll for all I know we could both be Tkwn and the other two are both laughing at his easy were making it for them.Heyo, anailater: there are no extensions, nor a hard deadline on the day. Day ends on the conditions stated in the day start post.
I propose a pact, we will use both extensions on this day, We are in LYLO we can't risk getting this wrong.
PFP
((I know, this is what I was talking about at the begging of the game with "Broken friendships" and such))
Scripten: And the easy target respond is still flaky! Lets say im scum, Blitz was just as easy and less risky for me, if I was was Scum and wanted Death dead I would have night lynched him and saved the problems that would make me suspicious and your still ignoring the fact that the guy I was defending was Town! If he was scum I would understand the suspicions but he wasn't, he was so not scum he was Cop, yes he was suspicious so maybe my point of you voting for him was null I'll give you that, but my gut was trustkwrthy that time, can't it be right twice? He'll for all I know we could both be Tkwn and the other two are both laughing at his easy were making it for them.
I propose a pact, we will use both extensions on this day, We are in LYLO we can't risk getting this wrong.
PFP
((I know, this is what I was talking about at the begging of the game with "Broken friendships" and such))
Also I change the pact from both extensions to no shortens, also couldn't you seriously game the system by just changing you votes back and forth?Another mod interjection: I have done exactly that, in a game which I ended up losing. It was LYLO with two inactive townies, me as a townie, and two active scum.
PFP
Scripten:Huh weird, I am following that, unfortunately for you I'm not going to accept death when the Galaxy is at stake! Or the game, depends on how roleplayey you are I guess. But his dies buddying make sense in this situation? Seriously explain how this makes sense I don't get it. Also isn't it weird no one else is posting, we're arguing with eachother and there letting it play out.
((But seriously no matter how this plays out I had fun. :) ))
PFP
Yobbo: You changed your bite from Blitz, to Deathswkrd and back to Blitz, Why?
The we'd stomp you part, yes he was joking, but i do think that he'd probably be much better at hiding scumminess than maybe every other player here.Nerjin / Deathsword: If you're both scum and an IC, how will you balance that?We'd stomp you.[/joke] More seriously though, we'd likely play as a normal IC would. An IC is to prioritize teaching above winning.
Everyone: Wehavent lynched a single scum yet, WHY?
isn't it weird no one else is posting, we're arguing with eachother and there letting it play out.I only just got home (and read up and thought about things). Also a lot busier IRL than the start of the game (when i was on holiday), but not so busy that i won't be able to post. I was reading and could've posted more last week, but didn't really know what to say :/.
Maybe there's a possibility anailater and Blitz are a scumteam and anailater's trying to save him and i'm being suckered, but i don't think so.
This is also a possibility in my mind. My line of thinking goes like this:
- If Blitz is scum, then either Deathsword or anailater are his scumbuddy. I would focus on Deathsword for an entire day and see what we can dig up.
- If Blitz is town, then I suspect you and anailater. Since anailater is much more scummy, I would want to lynch him and see what turns up.
Scripteb: You still haven't answered my everyone question, instead deciding to go after my use of capitalisation, if your sure of my scuminess it shouldn't hurt you that much to answer all my questions right?
Though I'm not sure how this works so might all ready he dead....
Also you never really talked about the impact that Blitz was cop, what did you think of that.
((Hey quick question, once the games over is there a reflection period to talk about everything that happened?))
The question was "Why do you think we haven't killed any scum yet" you have all of this talk, for the past two days that I'm scummy, but you haven't killed me, instead waiting until the time when it's the most important I'm suspicious, why didn't you rally against me yesterday!
((Good to hear, I'm excited to see reactions and such :) ))
As for me going after Blitz and not you...Deathsword: While I agree with you changing your vote, I question why you would do so this late in the day (Well past the cutoff) when you are risking a no-lynch night.
Already answered, long ago. A no-lynch wouldn't give us any information, and a no-lynch is what we would have gotten if I'd tied up the vote.
Yobbo: I honestly cannot say. She was a fairly quiet player, so I'm not sure where she stood at the end there.I'm actually pretty sure she would have backed up some of the things I was saying against you. Going by how she had said (quite strongly (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139933.msg5485552#msg5485552)) that she thought you were scum, and also that every time i brought up my feeling that your behaviour was scummy she agreed.
As for anailater, I considered how scummy both he and Blitz were. In fact, I have a direct quote here:Yeah, i don't necessarily think you're being inconsistent, i actually am having a hard time following your arguments on anailater and was hoping you could summarize them. It's a lot more difficult to follow things afterwards reading a whole bunch of posts at once than it is reading them one at a time as they're happening.Maybe there's a possibility anailater and Blitz are a scumteam and anailater's trying to save him and i'm being suckered, but i don't think so.
This is also a possibility in my mind. My line of thinking goes like this:
- If Blitz is scum, then either Deathsword or anailater are his scumbuddy. I would focus on Deathsword for an entire day and see what we can dig up.
- If Blitz is town, then I suspect you and anailater. Since anailater is much more scummy, I would want to lynch him and see what turns up.
Basically, the fact that you haven't voted for me yet is making Illgeo look more suspicious. If you were scum, you'd have voted me already and won the game.I want to vote you. My gut is telling me you're 100% scum. But i also don't want to follow a silly feeling and lose the game. There are still things i can point to that are suspicious. But i don't think i'm experienced enough to tell the difference between whether they're scum-suspicious or town-suspicious. And pressing you over them hasn't given me any more information any time i've tried it.
Hmm....Weell...
So that gut feeling I had at the start 'bout Yobbo was right. Wonderful.
Soo....Yeah your responses changed a lot in day 2. I think if you'd been responding like that day 1 it would've been much harder to get you lynched.
Reflection on actions? I probably should have been less lurky, and I now know to make my answers longer, with more info.
I feel I would've played better with a computer, and a really need to work on my flailing, why did you think Blitz was obviously town? He was flailing almost as bad as I was, he said her given up, of course you had info we didn't....This is actually really weird… i have no idea what it must have been like to not already know what alignment people were. The whole game i was thinking "why can't everyone see that me and Illgeo are the mafia? it's so obvious!". And with your flailing i thought "isn't it obvious that he's flailing beause he's being accused wrongly?". But i guess it's only obvious if you already know the answer o.O
Oh and I'm a he cause I saw you wondering.
Good play, did I worry you with my allegations against your last few posts?
Damn, I suspected it, but I feel good about this game even though we lost. Sorry for getting on your case, anailater. I should have gone for Yobbo, but he caught me by buddying up very cleverly at the end there. I held with the idea that you were scum, just because I'm used to people getting upset and dropping lots of tells. :P If only we had one more day...Boy was i glad we inspected you night 1 and i knew there was no way you were actually a cop ;) after that i just had to pretend i was unsure of everything.
Good game, everyone!
Woah, yobbo was scum! Wow, I most certainly was not expecting that. Illgeo's alignment was rather obvious, however, at least during day three. His under detailed, unexplained reads during LyLo seemed to parrot Scripten's (implied) reads. Still, nicely played.Is this when i'm supposed to do the evil laugh?
Sorry that I was rather inactive during the middle to the end of day two. I wasn't expecting to be as busy as I was.
Question for the mafia: How did you decide who to kill? Did you base it off of who was getting the closest to finding out who you were, or did you just do it semi-randomly?Not killing people who seemed scummy was important, so that they'd still be around to divert attention and lynch votes. And killing those who everyone thought was town (a.k.a. Frostmoon) for the same but opposite reason. MOWE gave some other good advice and we discussed it in the scumchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/gCnwWTw5NVVVH), take a look.
The Sith won! The Sith always win~The force must be, and always will be in balance, perhaps not today, perhaps not tommorow, but the force will be balanced again.