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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Evaris on July 10, 2014, 03:56:29 pm

Title: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Evaris on July 10, 2014, 03:56:29 pm
We've seen trout and sponges be great threats in the past, and I wonder what the greatest non-tree threat in 2014 may be. 

Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Tawa on July 10, 2014, 03:58:27 pm
Wait a second.

YOU CAN KILL SPONGES.

YOU CAN KILL SPONGES

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Witty on July 10, 2014, 04:01:03 pm
I think we need to get creatures to a point where they actively attack again before we can start choosing the next King of Beasts.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Tawa on July 10, 2014, 04:03:38 pm
I HAVE KILLED THE SPONGE

I HAVE FINALLY DONE SOMETHING NOT DONE BEFORE

I HAVE KILLED A GIANT SPONGE IN FAIR COMBAT
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Evaris on July 10, 2014, 04:08:47 pm
I think we need to get creatures to a point where they actively attack again before we can start choosing the next King of Beasts.

Well this thread will be open for predictions till then :p
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Boozebeard on July 10, 2014, 04:18:07 pm
Sea lampreys killed two river otters and one dwarf in one of my first fortresses of DF 2014.

The river otters they bashed the fuck out of with their tails, while they knocked a dwarf into the water and had him drown.

Edit: It's safe to say any water-borne animal with a tendency to engage with dwarves are still dangerous, seeing as they can knock them into water.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Silicoid on July 10, 2014, 04:28:02 pm
The UNDEAD.  They do not have the feelings, so they can use the new combat system to the full extent.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Broken on July 10, 2014, 04:37:38 pm
Birds. They pass out in midair, fall in your head, and you die.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: thvaz on July 10, 2014, 04:45:35 pm
Night trolls. They have like 5 actions before you have one.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Enemy post on July 10, 2014, 04:52:29 pm
Inevitability.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 10, 2014, 04:57:19 pm
TREES.
They will lure you into a false sense of security with the fact falling from short distances no longer can cripple you, and then BAM.
You fall because your agility wasn't high enough, and your neck is pulped.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: ArmokGoB on July 10, 2014, 05:01:05 pm
TREES.
They will lure you into a false sense of security with the fact falling from short distances no longer can cripple you, and then BAM.
You fall because your agility wasn't high enough, and your neck is pulped.
+1 for trees
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Evaris on July 10, 2014, 05:01:42 pm
We've seen trout and sponges be great threats in the past, and I wonder what the greatest non-tree threat in 2014 may be.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 10, 2014, 05:06:39 pm
The trees accidentally your post.
It explodes in gore.
It was inevitable.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Sergarr on July 10, 2014, 05:11:25 pm
The greatest non-tree threat in DF2014 are dwarves.

They climb into volcanos. They run away from enemies. Isn't this obvious?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: GavJ on July 10, 2014, 06:12:27 pm
I don't care if the OP specified "non-tree." Trees are such an overwhelmingly present menace that it would be unpatriotic to even consider any other alternatives for a superlative.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Baffler on July 10, 2014, 06:18:02 pm
Seconding the undead, despite not being an animal per se. Even though they can be destroyed a lot more easily by your average military dwarf in single combat, their complete and utter lack of fear means they're probably even more deadly now that military dwarves can rout. Their tendency to come in great numbers and the simple fact that they're undead make them truly terrifying for even a well trained and equipped squad of dwarves.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: ArmokGoB on July 10, 2014, 06:21:13 pm
The trees accidentally your post.
It explodes in gore.
It was inevitable.

Such is life.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Hetairos on July 10, 2014, 06:41:37 pm
I've heard terrifying news about hydras able to rip apart multiple enemies at once.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: GavJ on July 10, 2014, 06:52:19 pm
Lungfish can allegedly as of this version not only fly but now also phase through walls. Meaning they have mastered land, sea, air, and now the very fabric of spacetime itself.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Melting Sky on July 10, 2014, 06:58:54 pm
The UNDEAD.  They do not have the feelings, so they can use the new combat system to the full extent.

Giant undead animals are brutal now. Fear them!
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: kingubu on July 10, 2014, 06:59:57 pm
Undead trees.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: PDF urist master on July 10, 2014, 07:03:51 pm
Undead trees.

It is terrifying.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Archereon on July 10, 2014, 07:14:41 pm
I've heard terrifying news about hydras able to rip apart multiple enemies at once.

The thing is, having hydras turn out to be total murder machines isn't at all unexpected, even from the perspective of an outsider to the DF community. The novelty of the King of Beasts is usually that it's an been a series of extremely improbable menaces with each new KoB being more ludicrous than the next. elephants in real life are huge, but not hyper-aggressive like they were in 40d, nobody expected a common fish to be a brutal aquatic killer, and after having a completely sessile aquatic organism being the most dangerous enemy a dwarf could face in the previous version, I'm not sure anything in .40 will top that.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: palu on July 10, 2014, 08:28:24 pm
Undead trees.

It is terrifying.
It was inevitable.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Tawa on July 10, 2014, 09:00:07 pm
Undead trees.

It is terrifying.
It was inevitable.
We must use any means at our disposal to stop it.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 10, 2014, 09:21:07 pm
I've heard terrifying news about hydras able to rip apart multiple enemies at once.

The thing is, having hydras turn out to be total murder machines isn't at all unexpected, even from the perspective of an outsider to the DF community. The novelty of the King of Beasts is usually that it's an been a series of extremely improbable menaces with each new KoB being more ludicrous than the next. elephants in real life are huge, but not hyper-aggressive like they were in 40d, nobody expected a common fish to be a brutal aquatic killer, and after having a completely sessile aquatic organism being the most dangerous enemy a dwarf could face in the previous version, I'm not sure anything in .40 will top that.
Elephants? Unlikely, but possible.
Carp? Not unheard of.
Giant Sponges? They're large enough that when they sway due to currents, they can hurt.
The most obvious choice for the KoB of DF2014 is THE TREE.
It seems unmoving but it is the most wise, most dangerous enemy ever to exist.
It sits passively, waiting for its prey. Primarily birds.
It then creates a momentary blinding flash, stunning any flying creature, causing them to slam right into them.
Upon their inevitable demise, if left alone long enough, it eats the corpse with its roots.
The above-ground part of the tree is like the Lower Body of standard beasts, with the roots being the Upper Body. It's backwards, yes, but these aren't our Earth-trees.
Their brain, lungs, stomach and heart are all within the roots; they are spread out. Destruction of any part of the root system counts as "denting the brain", causing instant death of the tree - to prevent its corpse from being fed upon in this scenario, it evaporates.
The above-ground portion contains the other organs - the guts, liver, kidneys, spleen, and pancreas.
Removal of this portion prevents it from fully processing energy, killing the roots.
A rundown of Dwarf Fortress tree biology:
Instead of chlorophyl, these trees have eyes. Tiny eyes. MILLIONS TO BILLIONS TO TRILLIONS OF TINY EYES.
Once the collective hive-eye detects prey, they signal the tree-spleen to emit a light pulse (spleens are otherwise useless in Dwarf Fortress), blinding the flying creature long enough for it to collide with the hard epidermis of the tree. The flying creatures don't always die, but it's a team effort - if one tree fails to kill a creature, another may finish the job.
Upon the death of something near its roots, it lets the decomposers contribute it to the soil, and it feeds off the nutrients that way.
If said body lands directly on its roots, it absorbs the nutrients directly.
Either way, the nutrients go through the roots into the stomach, where some energy is absorbed. Said nutrients travel to the guts and get the majority of their energy absorbed there. The remaining sludge, which is often partly the remains of the decomposers, enters the liver, which processes it into more tiny eye components.
The energy itself goes to the heart, which distributes the nutrients properly, permitting further growth.
tl;dr: Toady One made the trees too hardcore.
Also, want to know why adventurers typically fail at grabbing branches when falling near trees?
Blinding flashes.
You seem like food to them.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: palu on July 10, 2014, 09:27:22 pm
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html)
Quote from: Durkon
They may look all peacef'l, but they be out ta get us dwarves.
I ne'er saw one 'til I be a man, leavin' the dwarven tunnels fer good, but I know they be Evil.
Haven't ye ever thought aboot how suspicious it be tha trees can always be found in such large groups?
And why else would me patron, Thor, strike down so many each year with his mighty lightnin' if they weren't Evil?
Back in the homelands, they always be encroachin' on our territory.
Quote from: Dwarf 1
Captain, roots are breaching our perimeter in Tunnels F, Q, and V.
Quote from: Dwarf 2
If I don't make it, tell my wife I love her.
Quote from: Haley
That's ridiculous. Why would anyone be scared of a tree?
Think about it, lass.
Just one tree has Colossal size, natural armor, damage reduction, hundreds o' hit points, and enough limbs ta make a dozen or more attacks per round.
Quote from: Roy
Durkon, trees can't MOVE.
Can't they move, lad? Or is it just tha they move so slow, we cannae see them sneakin' up on us?
Quote from: Roy
So now trees are some kind of stealthy assassin??
Gods, yes, man. It's like yer people always are sayin':
"If a tree kills alone in the forest, does it make a sound?"
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Cobbler89 on July 10, 2014, 09:28:24 pm
Let's face it: DF(7+7) / DFIWI didn't give us a doomanimal. It gave us conversation instead. I'm a little angry.

...You could, I suppose, argue that it also gave us doomtrees. I don't care one way or the other.

*spits*
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Archereon on July 10, 2014, 09:35:45 pm
Let's face it: DF(7+7) / DFIWI didn't give us a doomanimal. It gave us conversation instead. I'm a little angry.

...You could, I suppose, argue that it also gave us doomtrees. I don't care one way or the other.

*spits*

It was inevitable
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Jacob/Lee on July 10, 2014, 09:40:33 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: palu on July 10, 2014, 09:43:04 pm
I already posted that.
Didn't think to post the image though.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Tawa on July 10, 2014, 09:50:10 pm
Let's face it: DF(7+7) / DFIWI didn't give us a doomanimal. It gave us conversation instead. I'm a little angry.

...You could, I suppose, argue that it also gave us doomtrees. I don't care one way or the other.

*spits*

Actually, now that I think about it, the conversation system is the true King of Beasts. One of the options, in the original release, killed you on the spot. The thing is inevitably terrifying. It is buggy, like 40d elephants of aggressive doom. It can stop you from doing anything ever again. It leads to people spitting on you, which, extensive testing could likely reveal, could end up being weaponized.

CONVERSATIONS ARE DOOM
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Untelligent on July 10, 2014, 10:02:31 pm
I don't recall elephants being aggressive in 40d. You might be thinking of the old Flat Fortress / Boatmurdered elephants, though.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Alev on July 10, 2014, 10:09:23 pm
...inevitably terrifying...
Why must you do this? WHY?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: siegebot on July 10, 2014, 10:18:15 pm
Anything big ebough with blunt attacks, the new gore/pulp system makes oneshotting possible even if you didn't get hit in the head. I've seen bronze colossus pulping dwarf upper body throuhg iron armor in one hit.
Actually I've even seen heads pulping from grab.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: kopout on July 10, 2014, 10:19:24 pm
...inevitably terrifying...
Why must you do this? WHY?

It is sad but not unexpected
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Archereon on July 10, 2014, 11:30:19 pm
...inevitably terrifying...
Why must you do this? WHY?

It is sad but not unexpected

It was inevitable.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: TalonisWolf on July 11, 2014, 01:42:48 am
 What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Melting Sky on July 11, 2014, 01:59:44 am
Anything big ebough with blunt attacks, the new gore/pulp system makes oneshotting possible even if you didn't get hit in the head. I've seen bronze colossus pulping dwarf upper body throuhg iron armor in one hit.
Actually I've even seen heads pulping from grab.

Yeah giant animals, particularly the undead ones are brutal which is actually pretty realistic. Try taking on a zombie gigantic tortoise. My dwarves got a very hardcore lesson in the new
pulping physics facing one.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: mnjiman on July 11, 2014, 02:45:41 am
What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

Play adventure mode for a bit.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Emma on July 11, 2014, 03:38:55 am
I'm mostly afraid of the birds. They seem to have made an alliance with goblins I mean think about it. Gobbos attack, you send your military out to attack them and then... BANG! A bird hits a tree explodes in gore and your military dwarves run away in terror, and then the goblins slaughter the fortress. Although you could possibly exploit the terror exploding birds create and cage some wild birds then release them when sieged and as the birds blow up it frightens the invaders and the run away in terror.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Blastbeard on July 11, 2014, 03:59:33 am
It's like a mad scientist experimented on the kite-eating tree from Charlie Brown.
On the plus side, I won't have to worry about those god damn keas until the bug gets fixed. Embarked with the wagon under a tree and the flying kobolds tried to make off with my stuff. Big mistake.

That's terrific!
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: SanDiego on July 11, 2014, 08:15:50 am
In 40.1? Gravity. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a b*tch in space, after all.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Zaik on July 11, 2014, 09:07:04 am
I'm really hoping that Skeletal Elephant and/or Whale wrestlers make another terrifying appearance. I don't think they ever actually went away, but it's been so long since I fought was horribly murdered by them that I've started to miss it.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 11, 2014, 09:45:16 am
I've checked and it seems hydras only attack one target (with multiple attacks though).
What I heard though is undead sperm whales, but the KoB has to be at least semi-frequent, no?

Trees are the King of Plants. A non-animal can't be a beast (in the form that means animal/monster)!
If we're looking for an animal, I am sure it will present itself soon enough.

For the sake of making at least a sort of prediction, I'm setting up fights in the arena. A Hydra has been fighting a Bronze Colossus for minutes. The bronze colossus can't hit, the hydra can't damage. Ah, the hydra finally died, the colossus needed a lucky hit, then it was set.

The zombie giant sperm whale tore the BC up in seconds. They're dangerous, but rare.
The dragon kills the giant sperm whale zombie with fire. Maybe fire enemies are the new killers? Fire spreads again. It kills trees too!
I'll run a few tests then update.

Update1:
Bronze Colossus has melted. I accidentally made an Undead bronze colossus, which killed the dragon easy, but I guess that should never happen.

The GCS, even in a group has trouble killing the dragon, as expected. It seems fire may be the key. Time to test it against the dwarves.
Update2:
The dwarves lost. When fighting on grass, the area went in blaze. The trees are mostly intact, some of them lost their upper leaves and branches, but their trunks are the same. Might be a bug?
They fought 4v1, with full steel armour, steel shield. They had swords. Proficient in relevant skills (dodge, shield, armour, sword, fighter, discipline). Morale was off (and I believe I might have dwarves modded for NOFEAR anyway, dunno why).
I had a second group with crossbows who actually were looking good, 132 pages of combat needed to kill them (no difference in skills, just that they had crossbows and fought on non-flammable terrain). They didn't use their crossbows though, they just kicked and punched. Idiots. I'll repeat that test, but I can see dragons being the newest ruler in town.
Then again, this IS a fully grown dragon as it's the arena.

Update3:
For some reason I can't recall, I had dwarves with natural legendary skills IN EVERYTHING.
And even with they used their ADAMANTINE weapons/armour, they lost most of the time (main exception was a guy with a shield and a stack of 100 bolts, he just went there and stabbed the bolts through the dragon's skull and brain).
So yeah. Rerunning tests with basic dwarves.

Test results:
1 dragon vs Grandmaster Hammerdwarves (5 dwarf squad, grand master: shield,armour,dodge,fighter,observer,tracker,discipline,hammer, full steel)
New dragon, new dwarves, equipment and skills same.
Dwarves defeated 3 dragons in a row, ended tests.
1 dragon vs grandmaster axedwarves (5 dwarf squad, same as above, exchange hammer for axe)
Dwarves won again.

Looking over results so far: If you fight on flammable ground, you will be burned. Otherwise, with sufficient skill and an advantage in numbers, you can win. Blunt seems to get a better time (easier to get the dragon unconscious). 1v1... well, it seems it's more up to luck. You'll want more fodder and more hits.

Time to see how morale affects the outcome (I removed all modifications to creature_standard now.)

Update4:
Groups of axedwarves like before, with morale on.
Morale affects the outcome greatly, thought Discipline mitigates it heavily.
With Grandmaster Discipline: The axedwarves win easy, though 1-2 run off occasionally, the rest keep the dragon down.
With no Discipline: The axedwarves ran away instantly. 2 died, the rest got away, the dragon is bathing in lava and not giving a damn about going back and eating the rest.
With Proficient Discipline: I saw a single one of them run away, then he didn't join back into the attack. I'm guessing another one was holding back, but the smoke covered it. The dwarves lost.


Enough for now. My tests weren't very comprehensive (didn't repeat them enough), but I'd say dragons are great contenders to the throne of the King of Beasts. The real player though? Fear. Better level your soldier's discipline, people! Doesn't matter what the enemy is if fear is paralyzing your men.
It was inevitable.

TL;DR: Dragons, Fire, Fear. Discipline is extremely important for military. These are the main contenders for KoB title in v0.40 besides trees.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: RealFear on July 11, 2014, 09:49:15 am
What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

You've not really played DF2014, have you?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: misko27 on July 11, 2014, 10:27:15 am
The first thing I did was open up arena and set two groups of ten humans fighting to play with it a bit. There were two conscious humans left after the fight when I made a man to try talking. First thing I see:


Human 6: It was inevitable.
Human 7: It was inevitable.


Anyway, give it time. Lots of beasties have yet to be encountered again.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Gnomeknows on July 11, 2014, 10:49:47 am
I don't care if the OP specified "non-tree." Trees are such an overwhelmingly present menace that it would be unpatriotic to even consider any other alternatives for a superlative.

This.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: ShinQuickMan on July 11, 2014, 10:50:30 am
I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: 4maskwolf on July 11, 2014, 11:24:35 am
I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.
Actually, badgers weren't a problem for me when I encountered them.  They ran right into my untrained dogs and the dogs tore them to shreds (it was six dogs against two badgers).
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 11, 2014, 11:32:09 am
I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.
Actually, badgers weren't a problem for me when I encountered them.  They ran right into my untrained dogs and the dogs tore them to shreds (it was six dogs against two badgers).

But what about Giand Badgers? Those buggers will probably scare the crap out of dogs.
Tested in arena: 1 giant badger scared 5 dogs, but got attacked from behind by the one it didn't scare. 2 giant badgers didn't even get attacked by the 6 dogs I made, they just ran.

So yeah, don't underestimate fear. The larger the target, the more fear.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 11, 2014, 11:50:15 am
-science snip-
Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 11, 2014, 12:03:29 pm
-science snip-
Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Alev on July 11, 2014, 12:06:22 pm
-science snip-
Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.
At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 11, 2014, 12:11:16 pm
At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.

Ah. Yes. My mistake. Then they're likely immune to whatever affects the birds. I'm quite sure that's a long-running conspiracy/evolution thing.
This seems dangerous.

By the way, thinking of it, trees are killing birds and cutting them can get dangerous. Anyone reminded of The Happening?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 11, 2014, 12:15:58 pm
-science snip-
Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.
In most cases, the doomanimal/king of beasts is something unexpected. You'd expect a dragon, being a megabeast and a fire-breathing lizard, to be dangerous.
You might expect an elephant to be dangerous, although they aren't normally.
Carp? Heavily unlikely.
Giant sponges? Biologically impossible.
TREES? Just as impossible as giant sponges, but more common.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Spehss _ on July 11, 2014, 12:19:39 pm
At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.

They still don't have wings though. Can't fly either, no [FLIER] tag.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 11, 2014, 12:33:45 pm
Well, it's not the dragon itself, it's the fire and fear that they bring, especially if the ground is lit on fire (quite spectacular).
But I'm guessing we'll laugh ourselves dead when the real KoB turns out to be a demon rat that scares dwarves to death/uselessness.

Trees are nice candidates, but are they agressively attacking dwarves? Sure, the birds are dying, and the dwarves are panicking, but no. They might flatten a dwarf or two (I still have no idea what happened to my woodcutter, but I believe he was atomsmashed by a tree), but do they attack when left alone? No, they don't!
The King of Beasts has always been agressive, at least when you got close enough. As it stands, if you send out people to gather plants, the trees won't brutally murder them. Plus, all it takes to kill them is an axe. Which can even be made of wood. Carp, Giant Sponges, Elephants were all notorious for being almost impossible to kill (Giant Sponges took that to the max). I don't think a tree fits that category unless it has a poisonous aura or something. Or a deadly fruit... which can be modded, but we need a vanilla danger!
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 11, 2014, 12:55:51 pm
I think trees are as close as we have right now.
We don't have anything that inexplicably takes an entire army to take down one, or requires an abuse of physics to defeat.
Dragons, hydras, rocs, bronze colossi, all of those are megabeasts for a reason.
They're hard as heck to fight, which is made fair due to the fact that you either have to visit them (in adventure mode) or you'll typically have a tough enough army to face them when they do visit (in fort mode).
Trees?
Trees are essentially omnipresent. Anywhere you can embark, there's going to be at least one tree on the map (not on the surface, mind you, but there's bound to be one in the caverns somewhere). Sure, they don't actively attack dwarves, but they rely on the stupidity of dwarves and fall damage, and I'm sure they'll acquire as many dwarf kills over time that elephants, carp, and giant sponges amassed.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: gtaguy on July 11, 2014, 02:11:12 pm
I'd say the flying thieves.

Because currently they steal something heavy (my only iron anvil) and fly into a tree rig above a woodcutter, explode into gore, terrify the woodcutter into a ball, and then the anvil lands on him. Afterwards the gibs land but at this point he had already died.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Melting Sky on July 11, 2014, 02:29:43 pm
I'm still putting my vote in for zombie gigantic tortoise. It kicked the ever living crap out of everything I threw at it. It ate axes and spat out dwarf pieces. I did not expect it to be as dangerous as it was. It was a true beast.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Sergarr on July 11, 2014, 02:54:55 pm
I'm still putting my vote in for zombie gigantic tortoise. It kicked the ever living crap out of everything I threw at it. It ate axes and spat out dwarf pieces. I did not expect it to be as dangerous as it was. It was a true beast.
>zombie
>gigantic
Everything with these adjectives is automatically a fortress-ending threat.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: JayThePro on July 11, 2014, 03:09:36 pm
Soo, a gigantic zombie tree?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Button on July 11, 2014, 03:11:36 pm
I'm going to go with armadillos. Or porcupines. Something that rolls up into a ball and stays there, frightening off dwarves despite being tiny.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Button on July 11, 2014, 03:24:34 pm
Sorry to double-post, but it just occurred to me: Orangutans.

I ran into one the other day in adventure mode and I thought I was going crazy when I saw it move. It looks exactly like a tree. It lives only in forests.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: FallenAngel on July 11, 2014, 03:26:51 pm
Wait, what?
Organtuans?
Are you silently stabbing our necks?
Oh wait, you spelled it "Orangutan".
EDIT2: I understand now. My brain was on PVZ mode, so I read that like "Gargantuar".
Yeah, they do look like the part of a tree you see on the ground, but it's more surprising than rip-out-your-lungs-with-a-punch-ing.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: TalonisWolf on July 18, 2014, 03:07:02 pm
Sorry to double-post, but it just occurred to me: Orangutans.

I ran into one the other day in adventure mode and I thought I was going crazy when I saw it move. It looks exactly like a tree. It lives only in forests.

  That sounds Hilarious- mod them so that Orangutans are called Trees, pass the save to a friend, watch them get attacked by a 'tree'. Hehehe.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Alev on July 18, 2014, 04:23:54 pm
Sorry to double-post, but it just occurred to me: Orangutans.

I ran into one the other day in adventure mode and I thought I was going crazy when I saw it move. It looks exactly like a tree. It lives only in forests.

  That sounds Hilarious- mod them so that Orangutans are called Trees, pass the save to a friend, watch them get attacked by a 'tree'. Hehehe.
No, make different castes for each type of orangutan tree, then delete all other critters.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Mlamlah on July 18, 2014, 08:08:32 pm
Sorry to double-post, but it just occurred to me: Orangutans.

I ran into one the other day in adventure mode and I thought I was going crazy when I saw it move. It looks exactly like a tree. It lives only in forests.

  That sounds Hilarious- mod them so that Orangutans are called Trees, pass the save to a friend, watch them get attacked by a 'tree'. Hehehe.

The rendition of Macbeth we all want to see.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Saram-61-97-kon on July 19, 2014, 06:28:52 pm
I got an idea for the suggestion forum: actively attacking trees in evil bioms or moving ones as megabests :D
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Redzephyr01 on July 19, 2014, 08:14:03 pm
So, this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ent)
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: imlovinit on July 20, 2014, 08:25:41 pm
As had been said before the next king of beasts will be one we wont expect. But whatever creature it may be it will probably end up being one that takes advantage of the pulping system. In any case we shouldn't expect to find it until after Toady begins the next release DF 2047.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Fen on July 20, 2014, 09:04:43 pm
only time will tell what the new crown beast shall be... the most dangerous creature of all may not even be a beast, but that most dangerous of game... man DWARF!
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Saram-61-97-kon on July 21, 2014, 01:02:44 pm
So, this? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ent)
Yes, ssomething like this :D
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Bloax on July 21, 2014, 01:29:32 pm
A zombie hydra sounds rather terrifying if you ask me.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Wimopy on July 21, 2014, 02:11:50 pm
A zombie hydra sounds rather terrifying if you ask me.

Undead by default are horrifying. Probably why they are found in biomes with the same name.

The King of Beasts cannot be an undead form only. It may be giant, but its normal version must be dangerous as well (badgers).
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Agent_Irons on July 21, 2014, 02:30:35 pm
I'm going to have to go with trees. In .40.0.3 they never grew, but in .40.0.4 they grow -through- the ground, several layers of soil, constructed floors, farms, etc. In addition in rare cases they can drop ground-penetrating logs that injure/maim/kill dwarves even with several soil layers of protection.

Now that the mighty giant sponge has fallen to pulping, it's the unexpectedly-deadly-for-insane-reasons feature of DF2014.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Iamblichos on July 21, 2014, 02:59:43 pm
Trees.  Definitely.  Ents have been unleashed on the dwarves, and they are more deadly than necromancers.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: TalonisWolf on August 06, 2014, 03:31:42 pm
What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

You've not really played DF2014, have you?

I've played Fortress Mode, but Adventure Mode is like overcoming the Learning Cliff only to find a Wall at the top garrisoned by Legendary Marksgoblins. It is terrifying.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: ICBM pilot on August 06, 2014, 07:58:23 pm
I'd say that dirt is the doomanimal.
What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

You've not really played DF2014, have you?

I've played Fortress Mode, but Adventure Mode is like overcoming the Learning Cliff only to find a Wall at the top garrisoned by Legendary Marksgoblins. It is terrifying.
I've found that it was actually easier to learn adventure mode.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Alev on August 06, 2014, 11:39:45 pm
I'd say that dirt is the doomanimal.
What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

You've not really played DF2014, have you?

I've played Fortress Mode, but Adventure Mode is like overcoming the Learning Cliff only to find a Wall at the top garrisoned by Legendary Marksgoblins. It is terrifying.
I've found that it was actually easier to learn adventure mode.
Really? There's not much to it other than hitting people with heavy, sharp objects, while your companions take the brunt of the blows.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Iamblichos on August 07, 2014, 06:37:08 am
Doom animal of .40.06 is babies.

PHEAR MY WOMB OF MANY THINGS!!!  - every ingame female of any species whatsoever
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Redzephyr01 on August 07, 2014, 08:28:29 pm
grisha5, of course.  :P
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: grisha5 on August 07, 2014, 10:16:01 pm
dragons...i lost a fortress to one
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Chimpanzee on August 08, 2014, 02:03:16 am
Anything undead.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Dunamisdeos on August 08, 2014, 02:21:53 am
Nooooope. Got it right here.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141173.msg5531376#msg5531376

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: TalonisWolf on August 08, 2014, 11:49:44 am
Nooooope. Got it right here.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141173.msg5531376#msg5531376

Spoiler (click to show/hide)








So.. The weremommoths are the newest king of beasts now? o.o

Update on the specific Weremammoth in question: An accident in its containment led to the deaths of 46 dwarves. It was recaptured at the gates. I am quite sure that it is now a very skilled Weremammoth in terms of combat, and has become far, far more dangerous.

I have built a special vault for it deep under the earth. Here it will stay for eternity.
[/quote]



Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: BoredVirulence on August 08, 2014, 08:51:26 pm
I agree and vote for stealth weremammoth.
A normal weremammoth sounds frightening. One wielding silver warhammers is even more frightening. And its all expected fright. What is unexpected is that such a creature could stealth. Its very reminiscent of Sir Bearington.

Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Edmus on August 10, 2014, 07:16:30 am
Rabbits.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141720.0
They cannot be hit and slowly pulp titans ffs!
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: escondida on August 15, 2014, 11:11:27 am
As awesome as the Rrrrrrabits of Caerbannog are (and they are awesome), they seem to be more a problem for enemies of the fort.

Unfortunately, I don't have a candidate to propose yet. I just wanted to remind folks that Toady is still working on releases for this version, so don't give up hope! It's still possible that in the next few weeks some improbable, seemingly-innocuous animal will become a vicious menace. This is Dwarf Fortress, and wonderful absurdity will find a way.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: sambojin on August 16, 2014, 07:42:13 pm
Nope, it's unicorns again.

So delicious, so tasty, worth so much that you absolutely have to hunt them. It might seem like fairyfloss and rainbows outside, just a nice little walk amongst the clover.....

Then BAM!

Gored and trampled to death and everyone else is running and screaming.

They start out pretty big, move pretty fast, have warhammers attached to their feet and carving knives to their heads. And they're so delicious and precious, you HAVE to try and kill them.

Greed, avarice and gluttony are the real killers here. Plus the bloody unicorns.

Try it and see. Especially in a fort, they're only so good in arena. That's if you can catch them/kill them after the initial attack. There's as much chance of starving to death for the hunter as there is of total outside wipe.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Dunamisdeos on August 16, 2014, 10:39:49 pm
Nope, it's unicorns again.

So delicious, so tasty, worth so much that you absolutely have to hunt them. It might seem like fairyfloss and rainbows outside, just a nice little walk amongst the clover.....

Then BAM!

Gored and trampled to death and everyone else is running and screaming.

They start out pretty big, move pretty fast, have warhammers attached to their feet and carving knives to their heads. And they're so delicious and precious, you HAVE to try and kill them.

Greed, avarice and gluttony are the real killers here. Plus the bloody unicorns.

Try it and see. Especially in a fort, they're only so good in arena. That's if you can catch them/kill them after the initial attack. There's as much chance of starving to death for the hunter as there is of total outside wipe.

But are they invisible?
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: nuget102 on September 11, 2014, 09:48:33 pm
With my arena testing, it appears that the best thing so far has been a Cave Dragon. The reason? They can use their freaking wings for wrestling. This means they have two extra limbs to use that most creatures do not. This is terrifying. I'm doing more experimenting, to see if perhaps there is a different creature.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: smjjames on September 11, 2014, 09:58:30 pm
Except Cave Dragons are rather rare (well, not common either) and unless you're lucky enough to get them as a siege mount, generally appear alone. Plus a good military could handle it.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: StagnantSoul on September 11, 2014, 10:12:35 pm
I'd give it to trees. After a cyclops one-hitted six dwarves, a ton of olm men and elk birds, one falling log exploded him. Otherwise... I actually lose tons and tons of dwarves to alligators. A single alligator took down a pair of steel armed dwarves, and tossed a woodcutter and a third soldier into the water.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Chevaleresse on September 12, 2014, 05:17:22 pm
Children are ridiculously deadly, especially now that dwarven civs tend to be near-extinction so you get the same migrants after every failed fort.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: MDFification on September 13, 2014, 04:35:26 pm
TREES.
They will lure you into a false sense of security with the fact falling from short distances no longer can cripple you, and then BAM.
You fall because your agility wasn't high enough, and your neck is pulped.
I just saw a thread on reddit about trees spawning in midair and plummeting onto your fort. The consensus was that somehow, elves were behind it.

Anyway, Giant Keas (Winged Thieves of Giant, Parroty Death) remain king of the Flying Beasts.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: WordsandChaos on September 13, 2014, 04:41:07 pm
Inevitability.

"Do you hear that, Mister Anderson? That is the sound of Inevitability."
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Quartz_Mace on September 15, 2014, 03:26:20 pm
Puppies. I saw a puppy from my fortress murder two full-grown wolves single handedly.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Dunamisdeos on September 15, 2014, 03:43:43 pm
Inevitability.

"Do you hear that, Mister Anderson? That is the sound of Inevitability."

"I don't hear anyth--"
~Last words of Mr. Anderson, victim of a stealth weremammoth.
Title: Re: what is 2014's doomanimal?
Post by: Urist Mc Dwarf on September 15, 2014, 03:56:09 pm
Trees. Certainly trees