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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: Shakerag on March 30, 2015, 01:10:02 pm

Title: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Shakerag on March 30, 2015, 01:10:02 pm

Beginner's Mafia LIV
You Are Bread

Life was good in your plastic-wrapped paradise.  All of the bread slices enjoyed their time together in the loaf.  Each slice dreamed of what they would become one day.  This slice aspired to be a crunchy piece of toast.  That slice hoped to be part of a wonderful sandwich.  One slice even wanted to be torn apart and scattered for the pigeons.  Odd, but the loaf respected its decision.  Growing old and getting stale just wasn't in the cards for these slices.  No, the slices of bread in this loaf all wanted to be a part of something bigger.  Something delicious. 

But there was always a thought in the back of these slices' minds.  The 'M' word.  Moldy.  No one wanted to be moldy.  It was a fate worse than staleness. 

One day, it happened.  A slice of bread exclaimed not feeling terribly well.  The other slices saw.  Mold!  With heavy gluten, the other slices had to exile the moldy slice.  It was for the good of the loaf.  But even after the moldy slice had been expunged, a heavy aura (and a musty smell) remained.  There were still slices in the loaf that were carriers of this moldy plague!  However, since no slice appeared to be moldy, it was up to the loaf to determine who could be the carriers and ensure they were banished for the health of the loaf. 

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Player List [7/7]:

• Playergamer
• Dani Deus Asmoth
• roo
• Tea
• Dorsidwarf
• origamiscienceguy Lord_lemonpie
• Illgeo TheDarkStar

ICs [2/2]:

• Persus13
• 4maskwolf

Scum IC [1/1]:

• Silthuri

Replacements:

• This could be you!

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Introduction

Welcome to Beginner's Mafia LIV. As the title suggests, this game is for beginners. If you have no idea how to play or you have some experience but you're still not quite sure what to do, then this is the right place for you. If you sign up, you have one goal: Learn how to play the game of mafia. Since this is not an easy thing to do on your own and we wouldn't dream of forcing you to do it, you will be assisted by two 'inexperience challenged' players, or ICs. The ICs are experienced players on the board who have signed up to help you learn. You can always trust that the advice they give is genuine, however, you cannot always trust the IC, as they are players in the game and have the same likelihood of being scum as every other single player.

If this is your first time playing, keep in mind that games of forum mafia take several weeks, and can sometimes run longer than a month, and that you are expected to be able to play continuously through that time. If you can't anticipate being able to play for that long for whatever reason, then maybe the game of mafia isn't for you. But if it is, then welcome to the mafia subforum, and I hope you have a great time playing.

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Gameplay and Concept

The game of mafia has a simple concept. A large group of players known as the town plays against a smaller group of players known as the mafia. In this setup, there are nine players, with seven town and two mafia.

Before the game begins, each players is given a role and an alignment by the moderator. There are two alignments in this setup: Town and Mafia. The town outnumber the mafia, but each individual member of the town does not know the alignment of any of the other members. The mafia know the alignment of everyone on their team and they can discuss the game privately in a special mafia chat. The mafia has access to a nightkill that they may use in the Night phase, while the town occasionally has roles with abilities that are used during the night.

Once everyone has a role, the game begins in the Day phase. During the Day phase, players may discuss the game and each player has a vote that they cast publicly to lynch a player. At the end of the day after some predetermined amount of time, the player with the most votes is lynched. Lynching does two things: it reveals a player's role and alignment, and it removes a player from the game. Once lynched, a player is no longer allowed to post in the thread.

Once the day ends, the game proceeds to Night. During the Night, discussion is prohibited. The mafia team picks a target to nightkill. If available, any town power roles use their actions as well. At the end of the night, the target the mafia chose to nightkill has their role and alignment revealed, and that player is removed from the game in a similar way to being lynched. Once the night ends, the game proceeds to another Day.

Both teams win by eliminating the other. However, due to the nature of the teams, they win very differently. The town win by finding and lynching the mafia, while the mafia win by avoiding being lynched and nightkilling.

Potential Roles

Vanilla Townie - A member of the town with no special abilities.
Vanilla Mafioso - A member of the mafia with no special abilities.
Cop (Town) - A cop may choose to inspect a single player during the night and learn that player's alignment.
Jailkeeper (Town) - A combination of a Roleblocker and a Doctor, a Jailkeeper both protects and blocks the target from acting during the night.
Role Cop (Mafia) - Much like the Town Cop counterpart, the Role Cop investigates a single other during the night to learn their role, instead of their alignment.

This is still an experimental setup (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126082.msg4252536#msg4252536)

The only role that receives the success of their results in this setup is the Cop and Rolecop. All other roles are not informed if they were successful or not.

One of the following setups is used:
1. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper.
2. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.
3. 1 Mafioso, 1 Mafia Role Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper.

Spoiler: Possible Role PMs (click to show/hide)

Quote from: 'Vanilla' Town

You are a standard slice of bread.  Protect the loaf!

You are town.

Wincondition: You win when all of the mafia are eliminated.

Quote from: 'Cop' Town

You are the last slice of bread.  This somehow gives you a good vantage from which to determine if another slice of bread is moldy or not.  I don't really know how that works either, but run with it.

You are town. Each night, you can inspect a fellow player in order to see their alignment.

Wincondition: You win when all of the mafia have been eliminated.

Quote from: 'Jailkeeper' Town

You are the first slice of bread. Being at the front of the loaf, you can move another slice of bread to the front to ensure that it can't do anything overnight ... or have anything done to it.

You are town. Each night, you can guard another player to prevent them from acting or being acted upon.

Wincondition: You win when all of the mafia are eliminated.

Quote from: Vanilla Mafioso

You are a slice of bread that is moldy.  But the other slices of bread don't know that!  You don't want to go on to be toast or part of a sandwich.  You just want to share how wonderful it is to be moldy with the rest of the loaf.  But there are some other slices of bread standing in your way first ...

You are mafia. You have access to the shared night kill of your faction. You may plot with your partner [In a secret topic on quicktopic.com that will be visible only to you and your partner].

Wincondition: You win when the town faction has equal or less players than your faction.

Quote from: 'Role Cop' Mafia

You are a slice of bread that is moldy.  But the other slices of bread don't know that!  You don't want to go on to be toast or part of a sandwich.  You just want to share how wonderful it is to be moldy with the rest of the loaf.  But there are some other slices of bread standing in your way first ...  Also, the mold inside you has expanded your consciousness to the point where you can potentially identify those other slices of bread with the greatest ability to stand against your mold-spreading agenda.

You are mafia. You have access to the shared night kill of your faction. You have the ability to inspect others in order to discover their role. You may plot with your partner [In a secret topic on quicktopic.com that will be visible only to you and your partner].

Wincondition: You win when the town faction has equal or less players than your faction.

Notes about the ICs

The ICs are here solely to teach new players how to play, but remember, they are also players in the game. This means they have the same chance to be scum as any other player and it is entirely possible for one IC or even both ICs to be scum. Regardless of their alignment, they are obligated to provide you with genuine advice, so that even if you don't trust the IC, you can trust the advice they give. Some ICs will use a special 'IC voice' to alert players that they are delivering honest, unfiltered advice, while some don't.

The ICs have the special privilege of being able to talk while dead. This is so that they can continue to give advice even if they are killed during the course of the game.

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Rules

• Voting - Votes are cast in red and should include the name of the targeted player. Other colors may be ignored. Shakerag, Shake, and Shakerag you scumbag!, are all acceptable ways to cast a vote if the target is clear enough.
  
  • If you want to remove your vote, you may put unvote in red text. You must explicitly state this to remove your vote. You may put the name of the player you are unvoting in red after the unvote, e.g., unvote Shakerag, but it is not required.
  • If the day ends with two or more people having the same number of votes, the day will end with no player being lynched.
  • It is also possible to vote for a no lynch to explicitly end the day without a lynch.
• Death - When you are dead, you are prohibited from posting in the thread. You may make a single 'bah' post after you die, however, it must not contain any game-related information.
• PMs - PMs between players are prohibited. You may freely PM the moderator to ask game-related questions, however, what the moderator may reveal is limited.
  
  • Do not quote any direct correspondence with the moderator, including role PMs and rule-related queries.
• Edits - Editing posts is prohibited. Do not edit your post for any reason, even if your post comes out as a train-wreck of formatting, spelling, punctuation, and/or grammar. The preview button exists; use it.
• Replacements/Activity - If you find yourself unable to play, you may, and should, request a replacement. We may try to talk you out of it if it's for any other reason besides you not having enough time to play.
  
  • Prods may be requested for a player. If they have not posted in the thread within 24 hours, excluding weekends, they will be prodded.
  • If you stop playing altogether without notifying me, you will receive a warning after 48 hours, and a forced replace after 72 hours.
  • Please be active. The greatest killer of beginner games is poor activity.
• Day/Night Length - Days will last 72 hours. Nights will last 24 hours, or until all night actions are received. Weekends are not counted in terms of day or night length. E.G., if a night starts at 12:00 PM Friday, it will end at 12:00 PM Monday.
  
  • If the game is in a LYLO or MYLO situation, there will be no formal deadline. >50% Players must vote to end the day, or votes must not change for 24-hours.
• Extensions/Shortens - A player may vote for an extension to increase the length of the day. It requires >33% of the current number of players to request an extension for an extension to be granted. A player may also vote for a shorten. It requires >50% of the current number of players for a shorten to be granted. Extensions increase day length by 48 hours, while shortens will immediately end the day as soon as possible. There are only two extensions per day, with other extensions being granted at the moderator's discretion for special reasons.
  • Votes for extension/shorten are done in boldface. Extend, Extension, Extend it up yo, Shorten it out y'all are acceptable ways to vote for an extension or shorten
  • Extensions or shortens can be opposed. Opposition to extensions or shortens are done in boldface. Oppose Extend, Opposition to the Extension, Oppose Shorten, are acceptable ways to oppose an extension or shorten. Oppositions count against the total number of votes for an extension or shorten.
  • Extensions count as opposition to hortens. Similarly, shortens count as opposition to extensions.
  • Extensions, Shortens, and Oppositions will be counted and processed by the moderator in the order that they are cast.
• External Participation - While the game is ongoing, if you are not a player, an IC, or a mod, refrain from posting in the thread.
  • Play to win! There is no hopeless situation, so don't ever give up. And remember, be bold! You learn nothing and you gain nothing by holding back.
• Miscellaneous - Use of cryptographic hashing is not permitted.  If you want to have hidden/obfuscated messages in your posts for later use, come up with them using your own wetware.

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Resources and Guides

Our own Bay12 Mafia tutorial (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0)
The Mafiascum wiki. Lots of theory, terminology, and game analysis. (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
An Interactive Flash tutorial by one of the Mafiascum.net people. Helpful visualization! (http://cataldo.freeshell.org/mafia/mafiascum04.swf)
The Notable Games archive. Read a famous game from start to finish! Learn some Mafia history. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=64229.0)

Spoiler: On D1 No-lynches (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Bookthras

I'm not an IC, but I once wrote a rant about nolynches on Day One that I think would be beneficial for this audience, so I quote it below. In brief, you can (i.e., it's a valid vote, and if it has majority no lynch will happen) but you shouldn't unless you have a very very good reason. Actual ICs will, of course, chime in with their own thoughts, and there are different considerations to be had in subsequent days; the below applies only for D1.

Quote from: Bookthras on May 08, 2012, 09:31:27 pm

Even in a game like this, or a role-heavy game like a BYOR, paranormal, or bastard, without a D1 lynch people will lack context for the conversation during the day, which is the very point of the day game. The information lost is not just the flip of a person, but who voted them, with what arguments, and forms the very foundation of how the town power roles will choose their night actions. Information is key, and timely information moreso. People flipping at the start of D2 is not nearly as useful, and a nolynch will result in people using their powers on whoever they were voting (if block/investigate) or a crapshoot for protections and the like, due to lack of context and closure.

A D1 no-lynch pretty much wastes all of D1 content, and gives scum a chance to NK/convert/whatever while town has to shoot in the dark. The amount of information lost is not small, but most importantly, you lose the opportunity to use it. N1 will never come again. Even if you learn the information later, you'll never get that night back, which scum got for free. Not good for town at all.

Quote from: Hapah on May 08, 2012, 07:22:06 pm

Also considering the fact that the D1 lynchee is almost always town (when was the last time anyone saw a scum hang D1?),

Not that rare. The very last game I played (Cybrid Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104547.msg3146622#msg3146622)) we lynched scum D1. A couple games before that (Politibastard) as well, though that was a... different sort of game. I'm sure there are several others.

So sure, it doesn't happen that often, but it certainly does happen. Plus the possibility of a mislynch is built into the balance of the game. If there is going to be one, it's best for town that it happens sooner rather than later, so maximum information is provided early. It's never good, but a D1 no-lynch is worse.

Please disabuse yourself of the notion that a D1 no-lynch is good for town ever. Except in very narrow types of games where constant (not just D1) no-lynch can be used to break the setup (which is not the case here), whenever you think a D1 no-lynch is good because it's cautious, it's misapplied caution, and will hurt town much more than a possible mislynch would.

Spoiler: Dakarian's Scumhunting Bible, reposted here for your convenience (click to show/hide)

A VERY rough sketch of how a scumhunt is done (to help those who aren't sure now).
Step 1: When you have no suspicions on anyone, pick someone at random (I MEAN random.. some use Random.org for this!), take a glance as their past posts, and talk to them, usually with a vote.  The goal is not to kill but to learn more about them.  The vote is a "Pressure Vote", simply used to make sure they don't ignore you.

Step 2: When someone feels 'off' to you: perhaps you disliked their answer, or maybe they scare you, or confuse you with their text.  Perhaps they look fine but your feelings or your gut says something is wrong. Perhaps you see them do one scumtell.  Don't ignore it: make them your target.  Attack them.  Tell them what bothers you about them.  Push them, harass them.  Tell them how scummy they are.  Ask them every question in the book.. and I mean EVERYTHING:

Litia: "You bother me.  Vote Dakarian!"
Dak: Meh.  Why?
Litia: "Because you bother me.  Why are you pushing me off as if it doesn't matter?"
Dak: "What? No, you just have nothing on me."
Litia: "You're voting for Vector.  why?"
Dak: "He looked scummy.."
Litia: "Vagueness is a scumtell!  "Scummy.. how is he scummy!"
Dak: "He just is.. you don't have a reason to go after me either."
Litia: "OMGUSing now Mr.Scum?  Being defensive?  You also didn't answer my question!"

Note, this is Step 2: Litia doesn't feel like she knows Dakarian is scum.. just had a 'feeling'.  She has no hard evidence, nothing real.  The questions are to add pressure.. make Dakarian crack and panic.  If you did it right, they WILL town or scum.  WHEN they do, you will be able to see more of their true self.  From there, decide if you can find them as scum for truth.  If you don't: pull out and go to your next suspect: if no one else is there, go back to Step 1.
If you do believe they are scum after that, Step 3:

Step 3: When you believe someone is scum, gather evidence.  Find every scum tell, every sign of their true [/list]

Spoiler: CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia (click to show/hide)

Alignment - Who you share a victory condition with. Town-aligned, Scum-aligned, or third party alignments.

Bandwagon - Multiple votes on a single person. Can be justified, or unjustified. Unjustified bandwagons are scummy. Joining bandwagons blindly or without reason is also scummy.

BM - Beginner's Mafia (Or, Bastard Mod, a Mafia game with a purposefully unreliable moderator, or misleading information)

Bus - (noun: the bus ; verb: bussing, throwing him/her under the bus) When a mafia member attacks another one in order to make themselves look like a loyal townie when his or her scumpartner gets lynched.

Cult - A group of players that share a win condition, know each other, and can communicate freely. They are generally a second type of scum, although rarely they can be town-aligned. Instead of a kill, they can recruit players into the cult. There is generally a cult leader, who is in charge of recruiting.

EBWOP - Edit By Way of Post. Since editing isn't allowed in mafia, one may make a second post correcting any errors or missed information in their previous post.

FoS - Finger of Suspicion, writing someone's name in blue signifies a great deal of suspicion. It's kind of like a fake-vote, or the threat of a vote. Good for getting attention.

FTD - Failure to Deliver, also known as Toaster's #1 Scumtell. The act of promising to post more information at a later time, and then failing to do so. A very difficult action to justify as town, because it means you are either lazy or lying, it is therefore seen as a pretty solid scumtell.

IC - Inexperienced Challenged, players who are too experienced to justify playing in a Beginner's Mafia, and act as mentors/guides for the Town or the Scum.

Lurking - Purposefully not posting, so that you have few or no posts that can be analyzed. Generally a good strategy for scum. However, has the danger of earning you prods, getting modkilled, or found out via Zathras' Lurkertracker. Lurking is different than simply being away or unavailable. A good way to tell if someone is lurking is to check their profile's last active time, and compare it to their last post.

LYLO - Lynch or Lose, a situation where Town only outnumbers Scum by a single person (e.g. 3 town vs. 2 scum). During LYLO, Town MUST lynch Scum or instantly lose.

Masons - A group of town-aligned players who know each other to be town-aligned. They can communicate with each other freely.

MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, a situation where Town outnumbers Scum by two people (4 town vs. 2 scum). During MYLO, if Town lynches Town, Scum will win after night-killing town, making it 2 town vs. 2 scum, which is an instant scum win.

NL - No Lynch, to choose to end the day without lynching anyone and see if any information is revealed in the night.

OMGUS - Oh My God U Suck, a vote on someone else simply because they voted or attacked you

PFP - Posting From Phone (or Profession), throwing up a short post to prove you aren't lurking, when you are too busy at the time to make a more complete post.

PL - Policy Lynch, lynching someone for reasons other than scumminess. Variants are Lynch All Lurkers, Lynch All Liars, etc. Also see: Org.

PPE - Pre-Post Edit, typically done when you go to either Preview or Post and notice that someone else has posted before you. PPE is shorthand for acknowledging the "Warning - You may wish to review your post" message.

RIA - Refuge in Audacity, acting really crazy or really scummy to make people think that you couldn't possibly be scum because of how crazy you are. This never works. Neither does sarcasm in general, really. If you want to be sarcastic, make it painfully obvious you are being sarcastic, with <sarcasm>fake sarcasm tags</sarcasm>. Even still, it's not a good idea, because Mafia is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Role - Also called Power Role, any special powers you have. Cops, doctors, roleblockers, and godfathers are examples of classic roles. Some roles are alignment-specific, some aren't, and some can be for any alignment.

Rolefishing - Any question or attempt to learn information about someone's role. Typically something done at the beginning of the game. Typically a scum move, because it is in scum's advantage to find and lynch powerful roles. Can be acceptable later in the game, or in special circumstances where it is beneficial for town to learn someone's role. The reason it is scummy is because the really powerful town roles want to stay hidden so they don't get lynched by scum, and bringing attention to them by rolefishing risks their secrecy.

RVS - Random Voting Stage, the early-early game, shortly after the game begins, where people randomly vote each other and ask each other different questions, trying to find any good reason to suspect someone.

Scum - Mafia, or someone who isn't aligned with the Town. The Informed Minority.

SK - Serial Killer, a third party role with a nightkill, and who is hostile to everyone.

Survivor - a third party role whose win condition requires that they be alive at the end of the game. Normal players can die and still win as long as their team as a whole wins, but a survivor must actually be alive at the end.

Third Party - an alignment that is independent of scum and town. Has a unique victory condition, and is typically a lone wolf type character.

Town - The anti-Scum. The uninformed majority.

Vanilla - Someone who doesn't have a power role. "Vanilla Town", "Vanilla Scum", etc.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me, the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that his behavior would be subject to scrutiny.

Quote from: Princess Bride

"All right: where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right and who is dead."

"But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

WoT - Wall of Text; a really really long post. Sometimes unavoidable, but generally you should try to keep them to a minimum. Sometimes scum use them to seem more active then they are.

Massclaim - When everyone starts roleclaiming, or saying they are a power role.

Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)

(Thanks to IronyOwl for making the orig. version!)

Scumtells are things that someone does or says that imply that they're scum. Usually the reasoning is that it's bad or not productive for townies to do it, so it can be hard to distinguish signs of being scum from signs of being a noob. This is one of the reasons scum almost always win beginner's mafia games.

Note that scumtells are very very subjective; there's no simple way to distinguish a scumtell from a noobtell from being justified and/or lazy. Whether a justified, non-scummy version of a scumtell should still be called by its normal name varies from person to person. (Someone might describe their voting of someone who voted them as "not an OMGUS," other would say it's "a justified OMGUS" for instance)

In any case, common scumtells include:

Bandwagoning: Voting for whoever has the most votes or seems most likely to be lynched, despite having poor/no reasons or not wanting them lynched previously. It implies that you don't care who gets lynched, you just want someone gone, which is generally the case for scum.

OMGUSing: Short for Oh My God You Suck, by the way. Voting or otherwise applying pressure to whoever's voting you. It implies that you're really concerned about being pressured/lynched and want them to stop, which is more a scum thing. A townie would, in theory, be more open to the notion that their fellow townie is attempting to scumhunt at them, and less concerned about being found out.

Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.

Lurking: Not posting. Especially suspicious in the case of Active Lurking, which is trying to look active while not actually doing anything (posting frequently but with no substance, for instance). The idea in either case is that townies actually care about finding scum, and so should be doing things. Scum don't care, they just want some random guy lynched so they can kill someone at night.

Trying Too Hard To Appear Townie: There's no official name for this one, but being too concerned about your image; specifically avoiding things that might be seen as scumtells. The idea is that scum are very concerned about being found out, and so want to act nonscummy. Townies know they're not scum, so they're less concerned about LOOKING nonscummy and more concerned about finding scum. Note: this is not to be confused with the Too Townie fallacy, a terrible arguement that a lack of scumminess makes a player scum. The Trying to Hard scumtell refers to someone actively trying to appear town, not a lack of scumminess.

Passiveness: This is when a person refuses, simply hasn't or seems reluctant to take a stance, such as lynches. Scum will be concerned about their image, and thus don't want to be seen supporting a town lynch or an attack on a town.

Backtracking: When a person changes their stance on a subject after stating it, such as supporting a lynch and after doing so claiming that they didn't do it. This is very suspicious, and is often a sign of scum wanting to retreat their position so as to be able to save their face.

Lying: Well this should be obvious, right? It happens when someone fakeclaims (says they're a cop/doc, but is just town for example), fabricates evidence and stuff like that.

Rolefishing: Trying to find powerroles (cop and doc in vanilla Mafia), often via questioning.

Quote from: Argembarger

Resigning yourself to being lynched.
Saying something like "there's no way for me to avoid being lynched so I won't bother trying"
Blackmailing the town, like "You can lynch me, but you'll be sorry when you see I was town all along!"
Voting yourself for any reason.

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Frequently Asked Questions

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Oh my god this game seems fun. But wait, what are the rules?
  This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39338.0) is a good Mafia tutorial, brought to you by the wise JoshuaFH. Heed his words. It isn't included here because it's rather too long for that.
• People are accusing me of being scum! I'm about to get lynched! What do I do?
  The first and most important order of business is not to give up.
  One, two votes isn't much. Even if someone's got a bandwagon on you and people are writing walls of accusations, do not lose hope. You can still turn this around, no matter how bleak it appears. Fight them with your own arguments, and search for people you may think are scum, and try to turn the votes against them. About the worst thing you can do is give up, whether you are town or scum; you are harming the town by making it lose another member, distracting them from hunts for the true scum, and worsening your own game as well.
  The other players have nothing against you: it's just how the game goes. Even if you foul it up and people yell at you for it, once the game is over we're all friends.
  There are still people who give up, saying things like "You'll all be sorry when you find out I'm just town afterwards!" and "I'm not even going to try, there no way to stop this". Don't be that guy. Not only is it rather selfish, it will simply deepen your grave. You have to get out of it with real, meat-laden arguments, and these empty threats and remarks will only make you appear more scummy.
• Do I have to post so much? I can't be bothered.
  Yes, you do. You have to be an active player to scumhunt effectively, and with a lurking playerbase you might as well just hand it to the scum. There is always something to say; even if someone said what you wanted to, say it anyways in your own words. Always ask questions, always observe.
  This is a very demanding game. If you don't have enough time, then perhaps you should look elsewhere.
• How do I even tell if someone's scum anyways?
  This is, in fact, a difficult question. The game involves a lot of observation, and often it's more about intuition.
  You can often tell with the help of the List of Common Scumtells, provided below, but don't make the mistake of overusing it. Not every accusal against you is an OMGUS, and not all attempts at logic are WIFOM.  If in doubt, always remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. Don't take anything for granted.
• What's all this wine stuff that players keep talking about? Does Mafia cause alcoholism?
  They are likely referring to the concept of WIFOM. It's a name for the kind of circular reasoning that you'd find when scrutinising scum motives, and is described in the CEAs (Commonly Encountered Abbreviations) and Other Terminology Commonly Found in Bay12 Mafia below. It goes like this:
  
  A: Why didn't our most active player get killed? It would be the scum's goal to kill the most active players to remove accusal, wouldn't it? The only conclusion is that [active player] is scum!
  
  B: Or is it? What if the scum wants to keep the most active player to draw suspicion on him? The scum could then head the attack on this player, thus pushing themselves into a position of trust amongst the town! I've got my eye on you, A!
  
  A: No, that isn't right! Clearly, they would stay in the background, and the people who go for the bait like me would be attacked by the scum, thus making themselves appear insightful! B, how dare you do this to me!
  
  B: Or perhaps the scum would be someone voting for a person that isn't the subject of a bandwagon, thus appearing both inconspicuous and independent! [lurker], you are scum!
  
  As you can see here, both A and B are making wild speculations on the motives of the scum. Their votes and eyes are all over the place, and nothing is really getting done. It distracts from real scumhunting, which is seeing people play and making observations from that, not speculating on how people would or would not play.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups!
Post by: Playergamer on March 30, 2015, 01:42:24 pm

In!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 30, 2015, 01:52:03 pm

I really want to be a power role in a normal game, but I don't think I should join as a new player. Replacement list

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups!
Post by: Silthuri on March 30, 2015, 02:22:58 pm

Scum IC in!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [1/7] [0/2] [1/1]
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 30, 2015, 04:09:57 pm

Replacement in, although I'm fine with joining at the beginning if there aren't enough players/ICs.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [1/7] [0/2] [1/1]
Post by: Dani on March 30, 2015, 11:47:34 pm

/in. Hoping for good things.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [2/7] [0/2] [1/1]
Post by: Shakerag on April 03, 2015, 08:31:30 am

So .... must be all the whippersnappers being back in school right about now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [2/7] [0/2] [1/1]
Post by: Persus13 on April 04, 2015, 09:38:20 am

Quote from: Shakerag on April 03, 2015, 08:31:30 am

So .... must be all the whippersnappers being back in school right about now.

Probably. I'll IC IN even though I do have school.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [2/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: roo on April 07, 2015, 06:31:45 pm

/in
this game is hard.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: mastahcheese on April 07, 2015, 08:31:33 pm

When I read the title, I was almost sure there would be a pun on "scumbiscuit"

I am disappoint.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: Tea on April 09, 2015, 08:44:05 pm

Hi. I don't know if I will be any good at forum mafia, but I used to play on the same mafia bot as Webadict, Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, etc. which is how I made it here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: Tea on April 09, 2015, 08:45:54 pm

Your post says that ICs can be town or scum, but there is an IC list and a scum IC..? I am confused

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: Jack A T on April 09, 2015, 08:49:35 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 09, 2015, 08:45:54 pm

Your post says that ICs can be town or scum, but there is an IC list and a scum IC..? I am confused

The Scum IC is a non-playing advisor for the scum.  The playing ICs can be either town or scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 09, 2015, 09:11:17 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 09, 2015, 08:44:05 pm

Hi. I don't know if I will be any good at forum mafia, but I used to play on the same mafia bot as Webadict, Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, etc. which is how I made it here.

welcome. Everybody here was new at one point.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [3/7] [1/2] [1/1]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 09, 2015, 10:46:59 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 09, 2015, 08:44:05 pm

Hi. I don't know if I will be any good at forum mafia, but I used to play on the same mafia bot as Webadict, Pandarsenic, Leafsnail, etc. which is how I made it here.

Ah excellent, a new player to this forum.  Hello, my name is 4maskwolf, and it will be my job to work alongside Persus13 to teach you some of the nuances of the Bay12 meta.  I should warn you pregame, however, that my ideas differ from the general consensus here, but I will nontheless be serving as one of the IC's when this starts.

IC in

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [4/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: Shakerag on April 10, 2015, 08:52:19 am

Unless there is a burst of sign-ups all at once, I'm thinking of activating the replacements once we get another player.  Yes/no?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [4/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 12, 2015, 03:58:40 am

I'll IN.

Hopefully this game will buck the trend of mediocre ICs giving bad advice and scum leading the town about by the nose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [5/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: Shakerag on April 12, 2015, 07:58:18 am

OSG, TDS:  Do you want to stay on the replacement list or get moved over to active so the game can start?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [5/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 12, 2015, 08:04:13 am

I'll join, I suppose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [5/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 12, 2015, 08:47:37 am

I'd rather stay on the replacement list, since I'm already involved with some other games.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [5/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 12, 2015, 10:59:51 am

So one more then...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - In signups! [5/7] [2/2] [1/1]
Post by: Illgeo on April 13, 2015, 02:24:09 pm

In.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Shakerag on April 13, 2015, 02:41:19 pm

Sending out signup confirmations now.  Once everyone has verified that they're still good to go, we'll get things off and rolling.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 13, 2015, 02:41:57 pm

Let's get this party started

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 13, 2015, 02:51:31 pm

That's a confirmation, BTW

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Silthuri on April 13, 2015, 02:52:35 pm

Confirming!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Playergamer on April 13, 2015, 03:06:56 pm

Confirming!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Tea on April 13, 2015, 04:13:20 pm

Confirm.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 13, 2015, 04:23:00 pm

Confirming.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 13, 2015, 04:34:40 pm

Confirming as inevitable replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Dani on April 13, 2015, 05:24:16 pm

/confirm

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 13, 2015, 05:33:00 pm

Confirming.  Sorry, was in school and then talking to friends, but can confirm now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 13, 2015, 05:34:15 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 13, 2015, 05:33:00 pm

Confirming.  Sorry, was in school and then talking to friends, but can confirm now.

That offence can never be forgiven. You will now be shunned by this mafia community for the rest of your life. I cannot fathom how you could possibly have the audacity to commit that heinous offence. Shame on you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Shakerag on April 13, 2015, 05:38:03 pm

Okay, that just leaves roo.  I'll likely be starting this up tomorrow then.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 13, 2015, 05:39:48 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 13, 2015, 05:38:03 pm

Okay, that just leaves roo.  I'll likely be starting this up tomorrow then.

I take it Persus13 confirmed via pm, then?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Persus13 on April 13, 2015, 06:02:57 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 13, 2015, 05:39:48 pm

Quote from: Shakerag on April 13, 2015, 05:38:03 pm

Okay, that just leaves roo.  I'll likely be starting this up tomorrow then.

I take it Persus13 confirmed via pm, then?

Yes, he did.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: roo on April 13, 2015, 09:44:29 pm

confirm

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 13, 2015, 09:51:20 pm

Let's get this party started for realsies!!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Shakerag on April 14, 2015, 02:21:43 am

Excellent.  Starting later today when less tired/drunk.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Tiruin on April 14, 2015, 02:38:36 am

Posting to Bread.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Shakerag on April 14, 2015, 08:45:57 am

Quote from: Tiruin on April 14, 2015, 02:38:36 am

Posting to Bread.

Feel free to loaf around.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 14, 2015, 09:01:07 am

Day 1 Start!

While the slices who were obviously moldy had already been exiled from the loaf, the taint of mold was still in the air.  The safety of the loaf was in a bit of a jam.  Now the remaining slices have banded together to determine which slices still harbor mold, and to exile them before the whole loaf is contaminated.

---

Vote standings:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• Illgeo -
• origamiscienceguy -
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer -
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer, roo, Tea

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end a little more than 72 hours from this post @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.

---

PMs going out now.  PMs have been sent!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 09:07:55 am

4maskwolf: Do you think town, or scum are going to win this game?
Dani: How many days do you think this game will last?
Persus13: How long does it take the bread you normally eat to get moldy?
Playergamer: If you had a choice, which role would you like?
roo: What differences will we se in your play compared to other games?
Tea, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo: What's y'all's mafia experience?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 10:18:51 am

OSG:
My mafia experience is as town from BM #51 'Alien Invasion', the last town victory in a BM. Other than that, I have no mafia experience outside of reading nearly every non-BM mafia game on b12 for the last few years.
Which player here would you choose as  scunm-partner if you were allowed?

roo: Your hyperagressive noncommittal style has gotten you lynched several times so far. Do you feel that you should persevere with it in these games, or modify your playstyle to be more 'standard'?
Playergamer: If you were the cop, and two nonconfirmed people were accusing each other of being scum, how would you react in the day, sll else being equal? In the night?
Dani:How would you describe your scum play?
Tea: Have you ever played mafia?
4maskwolfWhy do you keep coming back to mafia if you keep being driven off in disgust?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 10:27:19 am

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 10:38:08 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 10:27:19 am

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

I didn't ask what type of person or what class of person you'd pick, OSG.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 14, 2015, 11:17:06 am

Tea
I want some.

Osg you can wait and see :p.

dwarf I wouldn't say noncommittal just the over the top hyperagressiveness that has gotten me in trouble. Didn't think people are so sensitive but meh. also a lot of people are noncommittal here. And I think my style tickled some peoples fancy I am gonna turn it down tho and see what happens.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

Funny that I got asked the same question twice when I kinda already answered in my signups post. I have played IRC mafia but haven't played forum mafia before. Having the time to think through what I post and knowing that everyone else does too is going to take getting used to.

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy? I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing. Not that knowing which alignment, and in some cases role, people prefer isn't a useful thing, it is, it just seems weirder in this context where everyone in the game has the same frame of reference and the scum can use it against you. I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

I do not understand why Doridswaf seems so grumpy in his latest post and I also find that a bit weird. Does it really matter that he didn't give a specific name?

originalscienceguy

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:48:07 pm

It is also weird having to wait for responses. :(

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 01:19:00 pm

Yes, forum mafia does take some getting used to. The first day or so is usually filled up with people asking questions to get the conversations started and sometimes adding a vote to pressure people into answering.

I personally don't like voting before I know any information, but everyone is different. My "filler questions" were just trying to get some conversation going.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 10:38:08 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 10:27:19 am

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

I didn't ask what type of person or what class of person you'd pick, OSG.

Sorry about that.

In this game, the person I have played the most with is actually roo, and I definitely think being mafia together would be !!fun!! even if it won't work out that well. I also like 4mask's gameplay, so that is also who i'd pick.

I'd pick 4mask if I was playing to win, and roo if I was playing to have fun, which I am at this moment.

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

originalscienceguy

I'm origamiscienceguy by the way. You can call me OSG if you want.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 01:20:00 pm

Alright everyone, this is my IC voice.  Everything I say in italics in this game is pure, unfiltered advice to the new players.  If I make any assumptions as to alignment in italicized text it is theoretical only, although I may fail to specify in the moment.  You can trust that anything I say in italics is said with the best of intentions and irrespective of my alignment, although it is up to you what of my words you take to heart and what you decide is not for you.

I would like to start by informing everyone that my playstyle is NOT the playstyle of Bay12 Mafia as a whole.  In more complicated setups, I typically run a gambit-heavy playstyle focused around disrupting other people's plans with complicated, constantly-evolving gambits.  However, for this game, I will attempt to tone down my disruptiveness and nuisance-making that is traditional of my playstyle.

Persus13 and I will be your IC's for this game.  It is our job to give you advice on how to play the game in accordance with our understanding of the game.  Remember, however, that we are also your fellow players, and have an equal chance of being mafia any given one of you does.  ONLY the things that we say in IC text can be taken at face value, but I generally play a more honest game with new players.

If you have any questions about the game, about how we think to play, please ask.  There are many ways to play the game, and part of the reason I'm here is to provide an alternative way to go about playing.

origamiscienceguy: Just going by previous statistics, probably scum.

Dorsidwarf: Because it's too much fun, that's why.  Also because I get bored.

When you play this game, remember that this is one of the hardest setups for town outside of bastard mods and some of Mephansteras's setups.  Without reliable power role support, the town is forced to go on gut alone, and particularly in beginner games this is incredibly unreliable.  If you are lynched as town or scum, don't worry about it too much, it probably just means you made a silly mistake that in most other games would be overlooked or moved on from.  D1 in particular is a dicey day: without any real information to go on, the town lynch is essentially who had a mistype or slip of the tongue close to the end of the day.  If you are lynched D1, don't worry too much about it or think that means you are a bad player: it just means that you got unlucky, essentially.

Tea: I'm going to get to your post in a moment, and I'll try to answer all of the questions and implied questions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 01:34:14 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

Funny that I got asked the same question twice when I kinda already answered in my signups post. I have played IRC mafia but haven't played forum mafia before. Having the time to think through what I post and knowing that everyone else does too is going to take getting used to.

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy?

Survey questions of a kind are fairly normal here, as they provide a small base of information to go off of if done legitimately.  However, so many of the veterans (such as myself) either don't bother to do them or don't do them with intent to discern that more complicated games often don't have it.  The "voting in first post" has been fading out of the B12 meta over time, it used to be far more common than it is today to the point where, due to the long days and it's prevelance, voting in and of itself lost its impact as a startle tactic.

Quote

I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing.

Observations like the rolefishing one are the bread and butter of mafia games, as they provide both a frame of reference for other players and a basis on which to place our eventual reads.  In regards to filler questions, it is very difficult to forumlate meaningful questions for even a subset of players every game, but I generally don't ask them at all rather than asking pointless ones.  OSG: I'm not judging your questions, I'm talking about filler questions as a concept.

Quote

Not that knowing which alignment, and in some cases role, people prefer isn't a useful thing, it is, it just seems weirder in this context where everyone in the game has the same frame of reference and the scum can use it against you. I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

The preferred alignment and preferred role questions are perhaps the most ubiquitous of RQS (Random Questioning Stage), because they are least have game relation despite having little relevance to the gameplay as a whole.  Over time, perhaps, knowledge of a player's meta can allow more educated guesses based on their preferences, but in such an early game they tend to serve as filler questions.

Quote

I do not understand why Doridswaf seems so grumpy in his latest post and I also find that a bit weird. Does it really matter that he didn't give a specific name?

I don't want to speak for Dorsidwarf, but one of the more (read: at all) reliable of the scumtells of the Bay12 meta is intentional vagueness and obfuscation.  However, you are right in a sense: generally obfuscation on RQS questions in basic games is more due to misunderstanding the question as opposed to active malice.

Quote

originalscienceguy

While a standalone vote can be a useful tool under certain circumstances, general Bay12 meta dictates that one should ask questions or drive home a point against them when voting.  Beyond D1, it is indeed generally considered scummy to vote without rationale or any way of trying to find new information.

Quote

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

It's not normal here, certainly, but there's a time to try everything, particularly in a beginner game.

---

Tea: please explain what you mean by that last quote there, the one about "if I am a cop".

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 14, 2015, 02:10:17 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

originalscienceguy

While we should all strive to get players' names correct so as to avoid confusion, this one is not terribly ambiguous so I'll let it slide this time. 

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• Illgeo -
• origamiscienceguy - Tea
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer -
• roo -
• Tea - roo

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 14, 2015, 02:18:58 pm

The strategy I was talking about isn't one that I haven't used a lot because in the few setups I have played where cops have guaranteed sanity, there are often doctors so cops can afford to be more open about their results. It mostly gets used in dethy where everyone is a cop of a different sanity (it's like a logic puzzle) and the mafia has to give a fake cop result to try to blend in. But if we did do it, tomorrow everyone would give a fake cop result (and the cop, if there is one, would give their real one.) The purpose being that if the cop dies then we know for sure what they know if they die before they claim, and the problem being that the mafia know who is town and who is mafia and so could better narrow down who the cop is. So it would be something everyone would have to agree to - and we do it by countdowns on IRC so that scum can't use other people's claims to their advantage.

Thanks for your answers in your IC voice, but I am curious about what your actual opinions on the thread are as a player, too. Otherwise I am not sure how we are supposed to figure out if the ICs are mafia.

I explained in my post why so far origamiscienceguy is the most scummy...that is my rationale. Even if I hadn't, though, I think there can be value to voting people without giving reasons so I am not sure I understand why that is considered alignment-related.

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 02:25:50 pm

I've got to leave for a rehearsal soon (I'll probably post in a few other threads after this though), but I promise that I'll be working on a post here in the next three hours. One sad habit of mine is I tend to be fairly inactive recently, but when I do post it tends to be a fair bit of content.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 04:28:15 pm

Advice in general

Quote from: scumbag

Filthy lies

Quote

or
 Scumbag:
bold

the person you're answering to - it gets immensely confusing later on if you don't say who you're replying to.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 07:18:35 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 02:18:58 pm

The strategy I was talking about isn't one that I haven't used a lot because in the few setups I have played where cops have guaranteed sanity, there are often doctors so cops can afford to be more open about their results. It mostly gets used in dethy where everyone is a cop of a different sanity (it's like a logic puzzle) and the mafia has to give a fake cop result to try to blend in. But if we did do it, tomorrow everyone would give a fake cop result (and the cop, if there is one, would give their real one.) The purpose being that if the cop dies then we know for sure what they know if they die before they claim, and the problem being that the mafia know who is town and who is mafia and so could better narrow down who the cop is. So it would be something everyone would have to agree to - and we do it by countdowns on IRC so that scum can't use other people's claims to their advantage.

Yeah, that's the strategy I was thinking of.

Quote

Thanks for your answers in your IC voice, but I am curious about what your actual opinions on the thread are as a player, too. Otherwise I am not sure how we are supposed to figure out if the ICs are mafia.

I can't say there's all that much to go off of yet, but I'll try to keep in mind to moderate my use of IC advice with player commentary in the future.

Quote

I explained in my post why so far origamiscienceguy is the most scummy...that is my rationale.

If the commentary and the vote are separated within the post by another block of text talking about something else, players will often miss the direct connections between them.  Not a commentary on your playstyle, just something to keep in mind in the future.

Quote

Even if I hadn't, though, I think there can be value to voting people without giving reasons so I am not sure I understand why that is considered alignment-related.

One of the main differences between this and IRC mafia is the pace at which it moves, as you have no doubt noticed.  Not only does mafia here go slower, but votes are a relatively impermanent thing.  Someone voting for you now could place three or more different votes before day end.  This, in turn, leads to even relatively new players (OSG has I believe five or six completed games under his belt) being relatively unfazed by an early-day vote, making the entire purpose of the vote (pressure) a moot point.  Thus, seemingly unsupported votes are generally viewed with suspicion, particularly when they are placed on people who already have one or more people voting for them (not that you did this, just for future reference).
Dropping out of IC voice for a moment, it usually takes 3 or more votes in early game before I start to feel any large amount of pressure, although later in the game or in small games like this sometimes two will suffice.  Individual pressure votes have really become more of a formality on these forums, at least from my viewpoint.  Perhaps Persus13 sees it differently, and that's why there are two ICs.

Quote

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

Dorsidwarf: Care to answer the bolded part?

---

Everyone except Tea: What do you think of Tea's suggestion about the cop thing?

Tea: in bringing up that strategy, did it occur to you that there is only a 2/3 chance that we have a cop?  Does that change your mind about the plan?  What should the cop do if we do follow that plan and they get roleblocked by the jailkeeper one night?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 07:22:45 pm

It sounds like follow-the-cop could start and ruin the game for the scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 07:26:45 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 07:22:45 pm

It sounds like follow-the-cop could start and ruin the game for the scum.

I'm not sure you understand what follow-the-cop means.  Follow the cop is a strategy where the cop claims on D1 and a hidden doctor heals them every night.  The use of a jailkeeper and the uncertain format are both intended to keep that from happening in this game, since a jailkeeper would also roleblock.  Cop claiming would certainly WIFOM the scum, but without the knowledge of the presence of a jailkeeper it would be risky.

Quote from: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 02:25:50 pm

I've got to leave for a rehearsal soon (I'll probably post in a few other threads after this though), but I promise that I'll be working on a post here in the next three hours. One sad habit of mine is I tend to be fairly inactive recently, but when I do post it tends to be a fair bit of content.

I feel you there, bud.  While I'm still more active most people, my activity level is certainly lower than what it used to be.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 07:29:40 pm

4mask covered the majority of the standard IC starting stuff in his post, and everything you assume he says in an IC voice in that post applies to me as well. Other than the fact I will use IC voice much less than he probably will.

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 09:07:55 am

Persus13: How long does it take the bread you normally eat to get moldy?

Well, considering I eat it, it doesn't get mouldy. Serious answer, over a week, less than that I has fruit or something in it.

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 11:17:06 am

Tea
I want some.

Osg you can wait and see :p.

dwarf I wouldn't say noncommittal just the over the top hyperagressiveness that has gotten me in trouble. Didn't think people are so sensitive but meh. also a lot of people are noncommittal here. And I think my style tickled some peoples fancy I am gonna turn it down tho and see what happens.

Using quotes is important. I have no idea what you are referring to in this post and that hinders our ability to get a read on you. Please consider using quotes.

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

I'm surprised to see so few people voting so far. Are these survey questions normal, or is Dorsidwaf copying the first guy? I like Dorsidwaf's questions better than origamiscienceguy's because more of origami's seem to be filler questions with no purpose, and the question to playergamer could be rolefishing.

Questions to start off with is normal. It gets conversations going. And asking someone what role they like isn't really rolefishing. People do tend to vote early on, but usually its attached to some sort of question.

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

I think it would've been better to ask about alignment over role if that was what you were going for though.

Sometimes people do ask. Out of curiosity, what is your favorite alignment?

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 12:39:03 pm

Since there are few but very powerful town roles it doesn't seem like a good idea to massclaim today, but it might be a good idea to do a 'if i am the cop i got xxx result' claim tomorrow? I don't know if those things are normal here though.

Massclaim is a terrible idea, yes. Cop only should claim if they have a scum result or are about to be lynched. Jailkeeper should only claim if they are about to be lynched or they've been blocking the only scum for a while.

roo Do you feel like you learned anything from being day-killed in GBU?
Illgeo, Dani:Prior mafia experience, what was it? How confident do you feel in your alignment's chances of winning?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 14, 2015, 08:36:53 pm

I accidentally missed Origami's post that was above 4maskwolf's initial stuff, so I'll be replying to that now. I still think it is going to be hard to read the ICs since they are mainly replying to things as teachers rather than players, and as scum can use that instead of posting actual content, but maybe that will change as the game progresses.

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 01:19:00 pm

My "filler questions" were just trying to get some conversation going.

What I mean by 'filler' is that I think that the content of Dorf's questions were more effective in actually getting conversation started rather than just asking stuff for the sake of it, but I can buy that you just didn't put a lot of thought into it, esp. since this was the first post in the thread.

Quote from: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 07:29:40 pm

And asking someone what role they like isn't really rolefishing.

I think it is because it gets people talking about differences in how they will play depending on what town role they have, which seems to help scum find power roles without providing enough benefit to the town to offset that, in this setup. I have often used knowledge of whether people prefer playing as a particular alignment to help me read them though, so I understand the value of that more.

Quote from: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 07:29:40 pm

Sometimes people do ask. Out of curiosity, what is your favorite alignment?

I am always quite relieved to get a town role and tend to enjoy the process of figuring out the game more than trying to prevent other people from doing so, but I think as the game goes on either alignment can end up being equally frustrating and anxiety-inducing, just in different ways.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 07:18:35 pm

Tea: in bringing up that strategy, did it occur to you that there is only a 2/3 chance that we have a cop?  Does that change your mind about the plan?  What should the cop do if we do follow that plan and they get roleblocked by the jailkeeper one night?

Yes, it did. In the hypothetical scenario of there not being a cop, it would actually be funny if the scum were overanalyzing it and made a suboptimal nightkill based on who is more likely to be a role that isn't in the setup. I hadn't thought through the jailkeeper thing though - that complicates things to the point that I'm not sure it's a good idea.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 04:28:15 pm

Advice in general

Is there a reason you didn't respond to any of the comments I made about your posts?

Am I posting too much? I don't want to make the thread annoying for people to read but I am eager to get to the point where people stop saying there's not much to go on.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 14, 2015, 08:40:26 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 01:19:00 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 14, 2015, 10:38:08 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 10:27:19 am

I have never been scum with anyone in this group, so I don't have any preferences right now. I would probably pick someone with experience.

I didn't ask what type of person or what class of person you'd pick, OSG.

Sorry about that.

In this game, the person I have played the most with is actually roo, and I definitely think being mafia together would be !!fun!! even if it won't work out that well. I also like 4mask's gameplay, so that is also who i'd pick.

I'd pick 4mask if I was playing to win, and roo if I was playing to have fun, which I am at this moment.

Your follow-up on this question seems both more conciliatory and more relaxed, which...is a thing that I don't know how to parse.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

---

One last thing for now: remember that while the IC's are by design players with more experience than everyone else in the game, we are neither infalliable nor much "better" at the game than you all are.  In a game of deception such as this one, experience is most valuable for its insights into other players, and none of you have been around for long enough for me to get a good read on any of you.

Also remember that while the scumtells listed in the OP are (somewhat, I have a bone to pick with a few of them) good guidelines, the chaos of the game is likely to yield up more obscure scumtells that you might pick up on but aren't labelled.  If you see something that you find suspicious, pursue it, but don't allow that pursuit to blind you to everyone else around you.

---

Now that I've got most of my ICing out of the way for now, I can get down to serious business.

Persus13: You didn't actually comment on Tea's idea, which is that everyone claims a (fake or real) cop result every day so that if the cop is ever nightkilled or lynched, their results will be immediately made public knowledge.  I specifically asked in the post three above yours what everyone thought of it.

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 09:36:41 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

Every beginner game I have played has been an overwhelming scum victory. The meta seems to have adapted to make it lean more in scum favor in my opinion.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:18:27 pm

Perseus I am convinced I was day killed because I was disliked actually. It affirmed certain truths. Like people like things the way they like them. I'd rather not talk about it if that's okay with you. Doesn't serve any actual purpose this game except to remind people how I play, which I am trying to change. I'm fine answering questions but curiosities seem to hold up the game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

FTR tho am not in favor of the aforementioned cop play. It does not make any sense here. unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

I also like origami as town this game gut mostly. I'm sure he'll make a post that screams town I'll quote it and show it to all.

unvote

@Tea 4mask is only commenting on theory. I think it is fine and actually like the posts; it is early game after all (and no one else is posting). 4mask is still a player and will take stances on other players. you can ignore the ic stuff as actually being in, this, game related.  I would suggest becoming revolted if he accuses someone of gambiting and then explains in IC voice what gambiting is, but 4mask I am sure would never bend rules like that. I suggest stop being so paranoid at the ic content he wasn't lying when he said its advise. Also the paranoia indicates town. Unless I am corrected about tea being paranoid by tea. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:51:31 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 09:36:41 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

Every beginner game I have played has been an overwhelming scum victory. The meta seems to have adapted to make it lean more in scum favor in my opinion.

I am not entirely convinced it is that. The rqs is scum favored and the inability of some to post and apathy of others gets town in trouble a lot. Meta is just how people play the game. I do think some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough. And some don't take this seriously. Which incidentally I have started doing. being aggressive and competitive is definitely not the meta. If you have a problem with the mets then you by extension have a problem with the people playing; What do you wanna see change?
And if you had to lean a certain way gun to your head on 4mask what would it be?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

I need to sleep, so here's some quick responses to questions. I'll try to post actual opinions on players tomorrow. Hopefully we get more posts tomorrow as deciding on a lynch by mid-Friday feels a bit ambitious.

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

Wait, what? You acknowledge that you should keep something to yourself, then post it anyway and ask for thoughts on it? <<

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

@Tea 4mask is only commenting on theory. I think it is fine and actually like the posts; it is early game after all (and no one else is posting). 4mask is still a player and will take stances on other players. you can ignore the ic stuff as actually being in, this, game related.  I would suggest becoming revolted if he accuses someone of gambiting and then explains in IC voice what gambiting is, but 4mask I am sure would never bend rules like that. I suggest stop being so paranoid at the ic content he wasn't lying when he said its advise. Also the paranoia indicates town. Unless I am corrected about tea being paranoid by tea.

I mean, both 4maskwolf and Persus13's posts are "fine" in my opinion too, but I'm a bit paranoid (for lack of a better word) that that's all they'll ever come off as, since I can't get reads off of that. I'm not trying to insinuate that people would intentionally abuse their IC status but that I am unsure how balancing their role as an IC and their role in the game works. I will try to just let things play out tho.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

Well, I think having few but strong power roles can make the game harder because there's so much riding on specific players' actions. I also find that how people talk about their role, even if it's really weak but still not a plain townie, is helpful for trying to read people once claims come out. I do figure that this setup must be balanced-ish for this setting since it's not too crazy and it wouldn't have been put out as a beginner's setup otherwise, and I hope that people that think it's scumsided don't get demoralized.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 02:09:04 am

4mask, Tea
Apologies for not posting in direct answer to:

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 02:18:58 pm

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

I didn't, in fact see it, because it was unbolded and started with someone else's name while I was skimming through before making my last post for the night. The reason I demanded clarity from OSG is because it's vitally important that the town not get into the habit of dodging questions or being vague, since those are effective scum-tells, especially later on, when everything's a bit more concrete. I'm satisfied with his updated answer, however.

Roo, if you think someone is breadcrumbing the PR in a game like this, it's probbably a good idea not to state that, since you open a possible PR up to the scum.

Illego, Dani: Are you having trouble posting? It's important to be active during the RVS/RQS, as otherwise concrete reads are more difficult to form. Lurking isn't a strategy for town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dani on April 15, 2015, 05:40:33 am

Sorry for living on the wrong side of the world. Just checking in at the moment, will post things when I'm done reading. Feel free to direct questions about my currently unobserved behavior!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Tiruin on April 15, 2015, 05:43:05 am

Quote from: Shakerag on April 14, 2015, 08:45:57 am

Quote from: Tiruin on April 14, 2015, 02:38:36 am

Posting to Bread.

Feel free to loaf around.

/me cheers the newbies/veterans!
Don't be social loafing, guys!
_{That's actually a thing. A real term, instead of something silly, to those curious. :v}
Punny or not. :P

---

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

I restate a proverb I'd like y'all to think about.
Regardless of power (power role), regardless of team, the power of the player lies in how they communicate.
I believe the balance to lie in the hands of the players--if and unless the mechanics involve such a degree of deception and falsehood, or inhibit the norms of play so much, that technically or otherwise the game is skewed towards a team's wincon.

Bring up the topic of metaknowledge and I say its a valid way of interpretation in the Mafia context--what makes it a danger in consideration is the objective presence of both cognitive bias, and the technical aspect of memory (ie new information overrides previous information and vice versa), with pertinence towards the danger of 'rigidly' constructing an identity of this person, over relative evidence present in-game.

So yeah. Go players, go!

« Last Edit: Today at 05:59:59 am by Tiruin »
Yes I can do this. :P

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 07:16:36 am

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

Wait, what? You acknowledge that you should keep something to yourself, then post it anyway and ask for thoughts on it? <<

I believe roo is saying the cop should keep his information to him/herself unless he/she finds scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 15, 2015, 09:20:05 am

roo: The IC voice is just for descriptions and explanations of our gameplay style, although since both you and I have brought up gambiting I may as well give the best description I have of a gambit.  But no, I wouldn't try to use the IC voice to manipulate other players into believing me, and if I do I'm a bad IC and everyone should call me on it because that is blatant power abuse.  That's why I try not to mix IC and regular voice in response to the same particular portion of text, because it can inadvertently lead to that.

---

A gambit is, in short, an inherently dangerous ploy used in an attempt to reap some benefit.  They generally employ obfuscation or outright lies in order to achieve the desired objective, although they are not exclusively a scum tactic as town can employ them too.  It is rather difficult to pin down EXACTLY what constitutes a gambit, since there are a lot of border cases that verge on being just dangerous regular play.  Generally, the more outrageous the ploy and the greater the risk, the more likely it is to be considered a gambit.

Now for the 4maskwolf personal opinion: in a game such as this, gambits beyond the fairly typical scum PR fakeclaiming (which is so common so as not even to be really a gambit in the sense I generally use it) are very difficult to even attempt, as without a power role it is generally difficult to obfuscate with any effectiveness.  I have attempted to gambit as a vanilla townie before, but that gambit a) crashed and burned and b) was entirely reliant upon giving off certain vibes in the thread, which is incredibly difficult to do without being so heavy-handed that it is obvious (and which I did successfully on one count in a rather heavy-handed manner and failed miserably on the other because I had to be much more subtle there).

---

I see Tiruin is loafing around the thread.

---

origamiscienceguy:  Why not let roo answer that question for himself, hmm?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Illgeo on April 15, 2015, 10:58:07 am

Sorry, kind of late here.

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 14, 2015, 09:07:55 am

Tea, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo: What's y'all's mafia experience?

I played in 2 BMs here.

Quote from: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 07:29:40 pm

Illgeo, Dani:Prior mafia experience, what was it? How confident do you feel in your alignment's chances of winning?

Not particularly good. Mafia won both of BMs I played here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:25:56 pm

Who is Tiruin? Are they in this game?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 15, 2015, 01:30:05 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:25:56 pm

Who is Tiruin? Are they in this game?

Tiruin is one of the mafia players in this forum and who is one of the veteran mafia players. She isn't in the game but does occasionally pop in to BMs and comment on general Mafia stuff (Notice how she commented on a question that was mainly focusing on game mechanics than anything else).

Larger post coming soon.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 15, 2015, 02:09:19 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 07:18:35 pm

Everyone except Tea: What do you think of Tea's suggestion about the cop thing?

That was a suggestion? I thought it was just a strategy that he'd used before. At any rate it seems to require cops with questionable sanities and a doctor if I read that right. Neither of which we have.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Persus13: You didn't actually comment on Tea's idea, which is that everyone claims a (fake or real) cop result every day so that if the cop is ever nightkilled or lynched, their results will be immediately made public knowledge.  I specifically asked in the post three above yours what everyone thought of it.

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

You posted after I had already started working on that post, so I missed it. Then I misunderstood his strategy, and that's actually a pretty good idea. How a Jailkeeper factor into that would be interesting.

I believe that BMs tend to be Mafia sided, because of the scum IC position, possibility of ICs being scum, beginner's finding their scumhunting legs, and ICs more focused on teaching about stuff than hunting scum. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, because a game stacked slightly towards Mafia can raise the stakes a little.

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 08:36:53 pm

Quote from: Persus13 on April 14, 2015, 07:29:40 pm

And asking someone what role they like isn't really rolefishing.

I think it is because it gets people talking about differences in how they will play depending on what town role they have, which seems to help scum find power roles without providing enough benefit to the town to offset that, in this setup. I have often used knowledge of whether people prefer playing as a particular alignment to help me read them though, so I understand the value of that more.

Ah, I see where you are coming from now. I've never used people's favorite alignments as a way of figuring out who they are. It's probably a better strategy in RL Mafia because you can see people grin randomly.

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 08:36:53 pm

Am I posting too much? I don't want to make the thread annoying for people to read but I am eager to get to the point where people stop saying there's not much to go on.

You are posting fine. More is only bad if you make a large post with barely anything worthwhile to say.

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

I'm not trying to insinuate that people would intentionally abuse their IC status but that I am unsure how balancing their role as an IC and their role in the game works. I will try to just let things play out tho.

ICs can be really hard to get a bead on their alignment mainly because of their focus on teaching. Talking with them and trying to get their input on the actual game is a good way to get them off teacher mode and into game-playing mode.

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:18:27 pm

Perseus I am convinced I was day killed because I was disliked actually. It affirmed certain truths. Like people like things the way they like them. I'd rather not talk about it if that's okay with you. Doesn't serve any actual purpose this game except to remind people how I play, which I am trying to change. I'm fine answering questions but curiosities seem to hold up the game.

Okay, I don't think you were killed because you personally were disliked but because your playstyle was disliked (and Deathsword's kind of known for going after newish players when they make mistakes).

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:51:31 pm

I do think some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough.

I can definitely agree with this, but sometimes being too paranoid can be a block though, and being unforgiving can lead to more dead town than scum. There's a fine balance that needs to be walked.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Confirming signups!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 04:55:10 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Everyone: From your own personal experience from various places and using your own judgement, how balanced do you believe this game to be?  Why do you say that?

I personally find BM games to be reasonably balanced - unless one or more ICs are scum. Obviously having ICs be unable to be scum in completely unfeasible due to balance, but the skill and power that experienced players bring to the table (especially when they're frequent players and newer players recognize, them, and at least in my case, instinctively believe their analysises perhaps more than they're due on their own merit.)
cannot be overstated.
In summary, I think that the game has the potential to be unreasonably balanced, but that that's an irreperable fault. Player skill,activity, and perseverence are definitely the important factors in a BM.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 04:59:34 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 07:16:36 am

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

Wait, what? You acknowledge that you should keep something to yourself, then post it anyway and ask for thoughts on it? <<

I believe roo is saying the cop should keep his information to him/herself unless he/she finds scum.

I don't find that a reasonable interpretation of what he's said. As far as I can see, roo said (paraphrased into descriptive language for explanatory purposes)
"..Unless Tea is breadcrumbing 'cop' for a later claim, the I should probbbly keep that to myself. Thoughts on this theory, anyone?"
Which is why that it's weird that he posts the theory he immediately suggests he wouldn't want to mention, and draws attention to it by asking a question.

Roo, what is this post getting at? Is my interpretion correct? If so, why are you contradicting yourself?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 05:04:28 pm

English is not his first language, so he can be kind of confusing. Just ask for clarification.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 05:05:30 pm

I did, in the line directly below that which you responded to, OSG.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 15, 2015, 05:38:42 pm

Quote from: Persus13 on April 15, 2015, 02:09:19 pm

I've never used people's favorite alignments as a way of figuring out who they are. It's probably a better strategy in RL Mafia because you can see people grin randomly.

Probably easier to tell in a more fast-paced setting, but if someone is totally not getting into a game, a reason for that can be that they hate their alignment. Regarding rolefishing, I honestly don't understand why you disagreed with me initially, as if the question is not intended to have any relation to how people are playing in the game, then it's a useless/filler question. The more interesting discussion is whether it's scummy or just anti-town.

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:51:31 pm

I do think some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough.

Funny that you point this out, since I'm seeing buddy-buddy behavior between you and origami already. When your read on him moves beyond gut I'd like to hear more, as I too have noticed people can tend to read people they like and are familiar with as town too quickly.

To Dani and illgeo, do you have any thoughts on anything at all that's been posted that aren't direct questions to you? <_<

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 15, 2015, 05:48:48 pm

Orc, why did you ask someone what role they would like?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 06:01:57 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 05:48:48 pm

Orc, why did you ask someone what role they would like?

(I am OSG By the way; Origami+Science+guy)

I asked someone what role they liked to get a conversation going.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 15, 2015, 07:24:38 pm

I'm not going to post right now, because I'm irked at one of the other players for an out-of-game reason.  I'll get back to you all when I've cooled off a bit.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Playergamer on April 15, 2015, 08:05:17 pm

I'm behind a bit, didn't see this started, sorry. Let me catch up, and I might ask some questions soon.

If I was cop, and two people were arguing, I'd watch for scumtells in day with intervening, and investigate the scummiest person at night.

As for my favorite role, I'd go with cop.

Tea's suggestion sounds kinda like breadcrumbing to me, and I don't like it very much. I mean, it's more visible than breadcrumbing, but it also seems like it wouldn't accomplish much.

The setup seems pretty balanced to me, although it could end pretty fast if town plays badly.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 16, 2015, 01:36:53 am

Sorry about the name fuckups, OSG.

I actually kinda like OSG's responses in here so far as he doesn't seem at all defensive and I generally get the sense that he believes what he's saying. I'll probably switch my vote tomorrow but that's dependent on people actually, like, playing the game. Like there's a couple of things that bother me but it's not even likely that the few people who have said enough that I can see why they'd be scum are scum, and it seems stupid to punish them for making legit posts anyway. /rant

@Playergamer, it is like breadcumbing other than that sometimes breadcrumbing can be hard to do well (to be not obvious while they're alive or until it's revealed, but crystal clear afterwards.) So that would take some pressure off, but there's the two limitations that have been mentioned.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 16, 2015, 01:56:30 am

Okay, illgeo

Literally not moving this until you convince me otherwise. One vote may seem like not a big deal, but if things continue at this pace, you will not want me still wanting you lynched on Friday. Do better than answering the two most pointless questions directed at you

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 05:40:54 am

Playergamer: The question was 'all else being equal', implying that neither were being particularly scummy, but thanks for responding. That's a pretty solid standard answer.

Roo: Do you think that Illego is being lazy as a town player, or lurking as a scum player?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Illgeo on April 16, 2015, 06:46:24 am

Can I ask for an replacement?
Kind of busy in University.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dani on April 16, 2015, 08:36:21 am

@important questions
My scum play is non-existent. I've never rolled it, which is why I keep signing up for BMs. I feel kind of iffy about meta anyway.

The hypo[thetical]cop thing (is that the term?) certainly changes the game. (I got carried away I think.)

Spoiler: A List (click to show/hide)

• People will be forced to act consistently with their hypo-results.
• Taking back hypo-results as a VT is going to be awkward.
• Rational townies are always going to fake an inno on a townread instead of risking costing the town two days.
• So there's going to be innos flying everywhere and this doesn't directly help with catching scum.
• The cop is going to be outed faster than usual, because their behavior will likely be different from vanillas concerning their hypo-investigateds.
• Hiding the cop is going to require at least some VTs to stick to their hypo-results.

Are there any other important things I should answer?
---

OSG is appeasing Dorsidwarf in #49, but I don't really know how I'm supposed to push on that or if it is any sort of tell. Just seemed like a dissonant reaction. People pointed it out before but I didn't see if that went anywhere.
Persus13 started with a strong first post but the follow-up is 50% small talk. I always have trouble reading ICs though because of the problem with the split between IC and player voice.
Also I feel like I'm in a classroom and everyone is lecturing. Actually, a tea party. There's pleasantries all over the place.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 02:09:04 am

Illego, Dani: Are you having trouble posting? It's important to be active during the RVS/RQS, as otherwise concrete reads are more difficult to form. Lurking isn't a strategy for town.

Hi, Dorsidwarf! Are you scum with Playergamer?
---

(Just to explain the wonky posting hours: I'll be online from around three hours before to one hour after this time. Also, I ran into rl stuff yesterday which left me unfit to play this kind of game, so I slept it off instead of bashing my head against a wall.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 16, 2015, 09:00:53 am

Quote from: Illgeo on April 16, 2015, 06:46:24 am

Can I ask for an replacement?
Kind of busy in University.

Noted.  It wouldn't be a BM without at least one replacement.  I'll see if TheDarkStar is still up for it.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• Illgeo - Tea
• origamiscienceguy -
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer -
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, Illgeo, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer, roo


Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 09:13:14 am

Did anyone ask me any questions?

*4maskwolf checks thread*

Nope.

Okay.  Then I'll get back to you later.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 12:58:13 pm

I meant: I believe tea might be breadcrumbing that he is cop; I probably should not have said that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 01:04:57 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 04:59:34 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 07:16:36 am

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

Wait, what? You acknowledge that you should keep something to yourself, then post it anyway and ask for thoughts on it? <<

I believe roo is saying the cop should keep his information to him/herself unless he/she finds scum.

I don't find that a reasonable interpretation of what he's said. As far as I can see, roo said (paraphrased into descriptive language for explanatory purposes)
"..Unless Tea is breadcrumbing 'cop' for a later claim, the I should probbbly keep that to myself. Thoughts on this theory, anyone?"
Which is why that it's weird that he posts the theory he immediately suggests he wouldn't want to mention, and draws attention to it by asking a question.

Roo, what is this post getting at? Is my interpretion correct? If so, why are you contradicting yourself?

it isn't getting at anything tbh. it was just an observation of possibility. And I don't see it as a contradiction. Tea might be cop and I was unsure of whether to post it or not, so I posted it hoping to generate more activity and responses. If he is cop then we have a doc iirc and mafia should be looking for the doc.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 01:08:59 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 05:40:54 am

Playergamer: The question was 'all else being equal', implying that neither were being particularly scummy, but thanks for responding. That's a pretty solid standard answer.

Roo: Do you think that Illego is being lazy as a town player, or lurking as a scum player?

I'm hesitant to say any alignment indicative posts about lurkers. I mean there could be a ton of reasons why someone isn't posting. I don't wanna associate both minorities that would just be fallacious. Maybe when I have better reads on others. I don't think this question is moot since llego asked for replacement. in fact I suppose it gives it more credence to, but gun to my head id call him scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 16, 2015, 05:43:12 pm

roo, I think you should reread the first post of the thread since there's no possibility of there being a doctor in this setup and this isn't the first post you've made indicating that you believe there is. Of the possible setups containing cops, 50% contain a jailkeeper, which can't protect the cop without also blocking them. IMO it's not a good idea to comment on whether you think people are playing like power roles until they've claimed in this setup, so that's all I have to say on the matter.

Dani makes good points about some of the complications of everyone doing a cop claim, and I'm thinking you all are right and it's not ideal strategy.

The emphasis on asking specific people specific questions here seems weirdly formulaic tbh.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:25:00 pm

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 12:58:13 pm

I meant: I believe tea might be breadcrumbing that he is cop; I probably should not have said that.

If you suspect someone to be a cop in this setup, it's probbably a good idea to not mention it, because a cop is the number 1 priority for scum, even over a jailkeeper.

TeaWhich questions do you find 'weirdly formulaic'? How does the day usually progress in IRC mafia?

OrigamiScienceGuy:

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 15, 2015, 09:20:05 am

origamiscienceguy:  Why not let roo answer that question for himself, hmm?

You ignored this bolded bright blue question directed at you. Why do you think you don't have to explain your defense of roo?
4maskwolf: Why did you FoS OSG over this and then fail to follow up his failure to answer?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:26:25 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:25:00 pm

4maskwolf: Why did you FoS OSG over this and then fail to follow up his failure to answer?

Oh hai!

Because i haven't gotten around to it, and frankly if people don't answer crap I usually don't remember the question unless it is really important to a case.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:26:43 pm

OrigamiScienceGuy: Why did you defend roo again here, only a few posts after being questioned for defending roo?
 

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 05:04:28 pm

English is not his first language, so he can be kind of confusing. Just ask for clarification.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:30:40 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:26:43 pm

OrigamiScienceGuy: Why did you defend roo again here, only a few posts after being questioned for defending roo?
 

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 05:04:28 pm

English is not his first language, so he can be kind of confusing. Just ask for clarification.

You literally just voted OSG twice in a row, silly.

Also, that's not defending, that's pointing out a fact about the person in question.  There's a difference.  He's not defending the play, he's defending the player.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:39:04 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:26:25 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:25:00 pm

4maskwolf: Why did you FoS OSG over this and then fail to follow up his failure to answer?

Oh hai!

Because i haven't gotten around to it, and frankly if people don't answer crap I usually don't remember the question unless it is really important to a case.

Ninja'd by you when posting above.

How do you feel about him failing to answer your question? Do you think he's inattentive or buddying or defending an extra-lynchable scumbuddy? Do you think that him doing the same thing again adds more weight to your accusation? If not, why? If so, why?

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:30:40 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:26:43 pm

OrigamiScienceGuy: Why did you defend roo again here, only a few posts after being questioned for defending roo?
 

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 05:04:28 pm

English is not his first language, so he can be kind of confusing. Just ask for clarification.

You literally just voted OSG twice in a row, silly.

Also, that's not defending, that's pointing out a fact about the person in question.  There's a difference.  He's not defending the play, he's defending the player.

I'm aware that roo's not great with english. It's the first trait I noticed about him when I encountered him. I'm also aware that his unorthodox playstyle has previously put him on the block. In fact, the post above OSG's post (mine) is in fact a request by me that roo clarify what he meant by a less-understandable-than-usual statement.

The rapid spring to the aid of someone he's previously been flagged for defending with 'advice' that's obvious/unhelpful and already been taken is definitely something I'd like some answers over.

---

I try to use Bold Red whenever I refer to the person I'm voting, because I'm on the opinion that it should always be 100% clear who you're voting. It also makes it easier for people to pick out arguments against that person in longer posts.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 16, 2015, 06:47:34 pm

I don't recognize who a post is addressing as well if the name comes after. So I thought you were asking a general question. As for the blue text, I have a bad habit of checking the most recent page of a thread and missing the 3 or so posts before the page ended, so sorry.

Roo just seems to push everybody's buttons, and has gotten killed day 1 I think for 3 out of 4 games he's played in. I just want people to recognize his language handicap to push past that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:53:03 pm

Why did you feel the need to provide pointless advice I was already following directly above you, then?

Can someone on standard ppp confirm that the relevant posts (~5 posts apart, IIRC) are on different pages? I'm on 50ppp here, and it's really unmissable.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:53:33 pm

EBWOP:
Why did you feel the need to provide pointless advice I was already following directly above you, then?

Can someone on standard ppp confirm that the relevant posts (~5 posts apart, IIRC) are on different pages? I'm on 50ppp here, and it's really unmissable for me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:54:08 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 16, 2015, 06:47:34 pm

I don't recognize who a post is addressing as well if the name comes after. So I thought you were asking a general question. As for the blue text, I have a bad habit of checking the most recent page of a thread and missing the 3 or so posts before the page ended, so sorry.

Roo just seems to push everybody's buttons, and has gotten killed day 1 I think for 3 out of 4 games he's played in. I just want people to recognize his language handicap to push past that.

You still didn't answer my question.  The post I was referring to is as follows:

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 15, 2015, 07:16:36 am

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 12:33:36 am

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

Wait, what? You acknowledge that you should keep something to yourself, then post it anyway and ask for thoughts on it? <<

I believe roo is saying the cop should keep his information to him/herself unless he/she finds scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 16, 2015, 06:54:55 pm

Fricking ninja...

In 15ppp it is indeed towards the bottom of the page, specifically third from the bottom.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 07:09:31 pm

I don't think origami was defending me tho. I think he was just trying to be helpful. You guys are like coyotes snapping at everything when nothing viable presents itself. What origami did can hardly be called "scummy" and if it is buddying I'd say it's very heavy handed. Origami did something that he thought would be helpful and didn't care about possible consequences. I think that is town mentality.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 07:27:40 pm

Not sure who is scum yet.
Tea'd vote is meh even before illego replaced out. I was hoping it was a place holder vote but the initial post was very dramatic imho. Not as confident in tea town anymore.

osg town definitely.

Double D (hue) I feel could go either way. Pointing out really neat stuff, but I think that isn't enough to be welcomed into my town pile. Like sure 4mask failed to do something and calling him out on it but not analyzing or saying well town points because scum points because. Makes me lean scum on DD. I isn't enough to to say well u didn't do this without asking or pointing out why didn't he do this.

4mask not sure. I don't recall any stances he had taken on anyone.
I forget the other IC :(

dani and player nothing cuz no content. I'd call player scum and dani town based on what I have seen tho if anyone is interested. player just made a standard im here meh post and dani oozed town

If nothing of value happens I'd be okay with lurker hunting.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 16, 2015, 08:56:27 pm

4mask, which question? Are you talking to me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 16, 2015, 09:59:34 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 16, 2015, 06:39:04 pm

I try to use Bold Red

Please don't do that.  Some mods may count that as voting for a non-existent player. 

---

TheDarkStar has replaced Illgeo!

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• TheDarkStar - Tea
• origamiscienceguy - Dorsidwarf
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer -
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer, roo


Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.  (about 14.5 hours from this post)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 16, 2015, 10:24:45 pm

TDS: Welcome to the game. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Quote from: Tea on April 15, 2015, 05:38:42 pm

Quote from: Persus13 on April 15, 2015, 02:09:19 pm

I've never used people's favorite alignments as a way of figuring out who they are. It's probably a better strategy in RL Mafia because you can see people grin randomly.

Probably easier to tell in a more fast-paced setting, but if someone is totally not getting into a game, a reason for that can be that they hate their alignment. Regarding rolefishing, I honestly don't understand why you disagreed with me initially, as if the question is not intended to have any relation to how people are playing in the game, then it's a useless/filler question. The more interesting discussion is whether it's scummy or just anti-town.

Generally rolefishing is seen as scummy, so I assumed you meant that in a more scummy way. Asking questions like someone's preferred role tend to be relatively common. Thanks for clarifying, because now I agree with you that that question was rolefishing (using your definition of rolefishing)

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 07:09:31 pm

I don't think origami was defending me tho. I think he was just trying to be helpful. You guys are like coyotes snapping at everything when nothing viable presents itself. What origami did can hardly be called "scummy" and if it is buddying I'd say it's very heavy handed. Origami did something that he thought would be helpful and didn't care about possible consequences. I think that is town mentality.

I was seeing the OSG as making a mountain out of a molehill, but this post makes me a bit suspicious. Not suspicious enough to warrant my vote, but still suspicious.

Tea: I take it by your Illgeo vote you aren't a fan of people being inactive?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 16, 2015, 10:29:41 pm

Pray tell Perseus (hey you're the other ic!)why is what you quoted twisting your melon? And can you explain the molehill thing.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 01:28:51 am

For what it's worth, I'm female. I don't mind a few pronoun mishaps but it's a bit weird seeing myself constantly referred to as male?

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 07:27:40 pm

Not sure who is scum yet.
Tea'd vote is meh even before illego replaced out. I was hoping it was a place holder vote but the initial post was very dramatic imho. Not as confident in tea town anymore.

Why's it meh? Admittedly I was pretty annoyed with how the game was going at the time, but I was really hoping it'd motivate the guy to post, and I guess it's a placeholder now because I'm tired. Is being dramatic scummy? By the way, did you go read the first post like I asked?

Quote from: Persus13 on April 16, 2015, 10:24:45 pm

Tea: I take it by your Illgeo vote you aren't a fan of people being inactive?

Yeah, I'm a bit annoyed since the only content I really see posted is roo making the kinds of errors 4mask was saying often leads to Day 1 lynches regardless of alignment, and Dorsidwaf asking questions without giving very much analysis which I find kinda jarring and potentially scummy since it shows a lack of willingness to put your own self out there to be read (just gonna bold his name since this is turning into a response to the thing he asked me.)  And I wanted to try out whether a pressure vote actually could be effective, but that didn't really go as planned (hopefully the new guy is more active though. In response to Dorsidwaf tho, I guess I find it weird how many times I've addressed people in the thread and they won't respond because I didn't phrase a specific question that needs a specific answer, and how people aren't really posting much in general that isn't in response to specific questions? IRC is more like a conversation cuz it's in real time.

I doubt more than one of roo and OSG is scum based on their blatant "buddying" behavior. I feel somewhat better about OSG than roo because of reasons I've already mentioned, but I honestly am just having trouble understanding roo and I would feel a little guilty if she got lynched again D1 tbh for being one of the only people actually talking? idk if I'll ever be able to read roo that well but I have more confidence that they'll give me enough info to try than a lot of people here.

I'm also slightly townreading Dani because I liked their attitude/they seemed to actually focus on what's important in the thread while they were here.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 01:29:58 am

Wait omg, I thought it was Wednesday. extend day please

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 01:30:54 am

At what point do people normally claim their role when they're a potential lynch?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 17, 2015, 02:18:25 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 16, 2015, 08:56:27 pm

4mask, which question? Are you talking to me?

Are you not reading any of the posts addressed to you, OrigamiScienceGuy??

He's referring to the question you specifically apologised for not seeing because it was behind the pagebreak. Why are you now denying knowledge of it?

This implies that either you fabricated that it was cut off by the page break (and just happened to get lucky) and never bothered to read it, or that you scrolled back to look for the post I was voting you over, saw it had your name in it, then didn't read it before making the post apologising about it.

---

Roo:

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 07:27:40 pm

osg town definitely
...
dani oozed town

If nothing of value happens I'd be okay with lurker hunting.

Three points:
-> Why do you find OSG 'definitely town'? All he's done is stick up for you when he really didn't need to. Accepting anyone who's defensive of/siding with you, just because they're supportive of you, is poor strategy.
-> Dani made what, one post where they asked some RQS? I'd feel a lot less suspiscious of that statement if you could post a more detailed  analysis of how it 'oozes town'. You should be really careful before classifying someone as 'definitely town', even in your own head.
->Things of value have clearly happened. OSG defended you twice and ignored/plausibly didn't see 4mask's response, I've been chasing him up on that, Tea's critiquing my attack on OSG due to it's questioning style, and perseus13 (Who I actually had to check the votecount to remember his name) is voicing his suspiscions and asking a few questions. If that's not enough to start scumhunting/debating/analysing, I'm not sure what is.

---

Tea:

Quote from: Tea on April 17, 2015, 01:30:54 am

At what point do people normally claim their role when they're a potential lynch?

From what I've seen, town PRs avoid claiming until they're the lynch leader by several votes, and usually that stuff comes within the last few hours.

Extend Day,  we're just getting into actual discussions, and ten hours isn't really enough.

With reference to

Quote from: tea

Dorsidwaf asking questions without giving very much analysis which I find kinda jarring and potentially scummy since it shows a lack of willingness to put your own self out there to be read (just gonna bold his name since this is turning into a response to the thing he asked me.) 

The reason I've been asking a lot of question is that I've been wanting a lot of answers, generally from OSG. I'll probbably post some more deatailed reads later, especially if Persus13 starts posting enough lengthy posts to be properly analysed, and if TDS improves on Dani's activity levels. And I've definitely been putting myself forwards, in comparison to, say, Playergamer, who's flat-out lurking, and OSG (Yes, OSG again) who's done a lot of answering questions, but not a lot of asking his own.
Mafia is a game of information and it's control, and apart from the obvious data like "who is the cop", only town can benefit from knowing more, which is why my focus, especially early on, is engaging people, demanding answers, and following up like a whippet if they refuse/fail to answer.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 02:45:13 am

Just posting to note that when I wake up it's not going to be very long before the posted deadline (I'm in GMT-8) so I hope there will be enough deadline extension votes. I'm officially rekt though for today

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Persus13 on April 17, 2015, 08:33:12 am

Extend

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Playergamer on April 17, 2015, 08:37:36 am

I'm not flat-out lurking, I'm having trouble getting online.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dani on April 17, 2015, 09:02:06 am

((I read through the new stuff but my eyes glazed over when I tried to understand it. Going to try again in the morning. Have some of my scattered superficial reactions!))

Dorsidwarf, I disliked being brushed off like that. My #90 wasn't RQS. I am legit wondering why you glossed over the third inactive (Playergamer) (at the time). It's not like you had indication that he'd seen and read the thread and had planned to post something, right? I mean I noticed on reread of #116 that you even mentioned Playergamer, so what was going on in your #68?

Right. Although OSG's defending in #79 could be justified as defending the player and not the play, he also ended up deflecting attention away from roo. Not really convinced this was a scum play because he ended up drawing attention to himself. However, #71 is him keeping information about roo from the town. I don't feel up to lynching possible derptown / cultureclashtown right now though.

Also I was happy when roo said I finally learned how to obvtown but then I remembered I only had one (real) post. Although Tea did it too??? ? What does this mean

Regarding the second to the last paragraph in #113, I was told in a previous game (off-site) to be careful around "one but not both is scum" statements. Because it lines up mislynches, I think. I was going to also say something about the questions without analysis (which is a good point I will take note of for future use), but I forgot.

I'm starting to think that maybe I should be resting instead. Also, I am loathe to spend the weekend deciding what I was told is basically a random lynch, so I'm not voting for an extend probably. Bye until later

PEdit I got ninja'd. I made this post too slowly. Also ugh why is it so important to extend
@Playergamer do you foresee your net problems getting not-worse soon?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: roo on April 17, 2015, 09:17:50 am

@doris I mentioned player lurking in one of my posts, and explained why I think origami did what he did and why it makes him town in my eyes. And in regards to dani (and player gamer which you did not mention) explicitly said nothing and because they had so little content; and went ahead guy read based on that content.
@tea I have not read the first post.

Playergamer. Although tbh I'd rather vote for Doris. I think potentially more associative reads can come from him. but I'd rather not give player a free pass if he's lurking scum. (sorry about internet problems player).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 17, 2015, 09:53:37 am

Quote from: Dani on April 17, 2015, 09:02:06 am

Dorsidwarf, I disliked being brushed off like that. My #90 wasn't RQS. I am legit wondering why you glossed over the third inactive (Playergamer) (at the time). It's not like you had indication that he'd seen and read the thread and had planned to post something, right? I mean I noticed on reread of #116 that you even mentioned Playergamer, so what was going on in your #68

After a more thorough re-read, I apologise for categorising post #90 as RVS. It's actually some okay analyses, although I have no clue what the hypothetical cop section is about. I'm not sure why I said it was RVS, seeing as you didn't post during that stage, so there shouldn't have been any posts to mix up.
To answer the question you posed in that post: No.
To answer the question you implied inn the above post, I failed to notice that playergamer was absent. I later corrected that in the post #116, when he had been absent for longer. I also happened to be waiting for an answer to my questions.

Roo: It's Dor-si, not doris, damnit. If you think I'm a better lynch, why are you voting a lurker who claims to have connection issues?

Quote from: Playergamer on April 17, 2015, 08:37:36 am

I'm not flat-out lurking, I'm having trouble getting online.

... and yet the second someone calls you on it, you're able to appear with a 1-line rejoiner with no other content.

---

mentioned posts in above conversation.

Spoiler: #68 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 02:09:04 am

4mask, Tea
Apologies for not posting in direct answer to:

Quote from: Tea on April 14, 2015, 02:18:58 pm

It didn't seem to me like origamiscienceguy was being intentionally vague in that answer as he did give information about what he would be looking for in a partner, but I would like to know why Dorsidwarf was being grumpy because that would help me understand his thought processes.

I didn't, in fact see it, because it was unbolded and started with someone else's name while I was skimming through before making my last post for the night. The reason I demanded clarity from OSG is because it's vitally important that the town not get into the habit of dodging questions or being vague, since those are effective scum-tells, especially later on, when everything's a bit more concrete. I'm satisfied with his updated answer, however.

Roo, if you think someone is breadcrumbing the PR in a game like this, it's probbably a good idea not to state that, since you open a possible PR up to the scum.

Illego, Dani: Are you having trouble posting? It's important to be active during the RVS/RQS, as otherwise concrete reads are more difficult to form. Lurking isn't a strategy for town.

Spoiler: #90 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Dani on April 16, 2015, 08:36:21 am

@important questions
My scum play is non-existent. I've never rolled it, which is why I keep signing up for BMs. I feel kind of iffy about meta anyway.

The hypo[thetical]cop thing (is that the term?) certainly changes the game. (I got carried away I think.)
[spoiler=A List]

• People will be forced to act consistently with their hypo-results.
• Taking back hypo-results as a VT is going to be awkward.
• Rational townies are always going to fake an inno on a townread instead of risking costing the town two days.
• So there's going to be innos flying everywhere and this doesn't directly help with catching scum.
• The cop is going to be outed faster than usual, because their behavior will likely be different from vanillas concerning their hypo-investigateds.
• Hiding the cop is going to require at least some VTs to stick to their hypo-results.

Are there any other important things I should answer?
---

OSG is appeasing Dorsidwarf in #49, but I don't really know how I'm supposed to push on that or if it is any sort of tell. Just seemed like a dissonant reaction. People pointed it out before but I didn't see if that went anywhere.
Persus13 started with a strong first post but the follow-up is 50% small talk. I always have trouble reading ICs though because of the problem with the split between IC and player voice.
Also I feel like I'm in a classroom and everyone is lecturing. Actually, a tea party. There's pleasantries all over the place.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 15, 2015, 02:09:04 am

Illego, Dani: Are you having trouble posting? It's important to be active during the RVS/RQS, as otherwise concrete reads are more difficult to form. Lurking isn't a strategy for town.

Hi, Dorsidwarf! Are you scum with Playergamer?
---

(Just to explain the wonky posting hours: I'll be online from around three hours before to one hour after this time. Also, I ran into rl stuff yesterday which left me unfit to play this kind of game, so I slept it off instead of bashing my head against a wall.)

Spoiler: #116 (click to show/hide)

This one is like 5 posts above this.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 17, 2015, 10:56:36 am

Quote from: Tea on April 17, 2015, 01:29:58 am

Wait omg, I thought it was Wednesday. extend day please

Extend requests in bold, please.  Only votes should be in red.  I will not count this as changing your vote, but please note the rules in the OP.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• TheDarkStar - Tea
• origamiscienceguy - Dorsidwarf
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer - roo
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer


Extension requests: 3
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 17th.  Approximately 1.5 hours from now.

Let me know if there is anything incorrect.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:19:17 pm

Oh I had assumed you had to have simple majority to get a Lynch um I think I have twelve minutes yeah?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:21:02 pm

this is stupid and feels utterly random and idk why none of the ICs and Dani are voting? Are you guys trying to no lynch?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:24:19 pm

Unless the jailkeeper succeeds I think we only get one mislynch if we no lynch. Maybe drags things out to give PRs a chance to go things though. Um

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:27:33 pm

In response to Dani's recent post, I think OSG and roo could both be town..I was literally just saying that I don't think they are scum together because the defending is too blatant. Also I didn't say you were obvtown? Please don't misrepresent my statements

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:29:03 pm

I mean

playergamer seems like the right thing here

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Tea on April 17, 2015, 12:30:38 pm

Would rather at least learn something rn

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D1 - Protect the loaf!
Post by: Shakerag on April 17, 2015, 12:34:39 pm

Day is over, locking thread, will process later.

---

The slices were feeling pretty crummy about this whole business, and they didn't really want to have to exile anyone ... but the sake of the loaf was on the line.  A slice of bread was chosen, and it left the safety of the loaf.  The other slices watched in anticipation ... but the exiled slice went stale with little fanfare.

Playergamer was lynched!  Playergamer was vanilla town.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• TheDarkStar -
• origamiscienceguy - Dorsidwarf
• Persus13 -
• Playergamer - roo, Tea
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, Persus13, Playergamer


Extension requests: 3
Shorten requests: 0

4 votes needed to extend the day
5 votes needed to shorten the day

---

Sorry about the delay; life happened.  Allowing for my delay and the weekend, Night 1 will end at 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Tuesday, April 21st.  Or if all night actions are sent in; whichever happens first.

Title: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Shakerag on April 20, 2015, 02:40:03 pm

The loaf is a little bit smaller this morning, as one slice has gone missing in the night!  Someone calls out that they see Persus13!  But he's on the floor!  He looks pretty stale, is bound and gagged with twist-ties, and there are a couple of hairs stuck to him.  All hope of him returning to the loaf was lost when The Human picked poor Persus13 up off of the floor and tossed him into the garbage can.

Persus13 was killed!  He was vanilla town.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf -
• Dani -
• Dorsidwarf -
• TheDarkStar -
• origamiscienceguy -
• roo -
• Tea -

Not voting:  4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, roo, Tea

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 24th.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Playergamer on April 20, 2015, 04:38:40 pm

Bah. Good luck town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 20, 2015, 04:48:31 pm

So, the scum decided to get rid of the Lurkier of the ICs. That sounds like they may have more experience than average.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Persus13 on April 20, 2015, 05:02:54 pm

Hi there. Just because I'm dead doesn't mean I can't IC. Unfortunately my IC advice will be very limited as I'm dead and can't actually play, and more specific advice would involve actual game play.

Yesterday was a perfect example of a good time to extend. The majority of the time extensions tend to just make the day be dragged out and activity begins to nose dive. However, only three people were voting when day end rolled around. This is the perfect time to extend, and enough people posted right before day who could have extended but didn't. PAY ATTENTION TO WHEN THE DAY WILL END. If it's a different time zone than you, make sure you are aware what time day will end in your time, and what day. You don't need to revolve your schedule around it, but be aware whether or not your post will be the last post of the day, and that you are voting who you would like.

Secondly, don't lynch people who have physical reasons for being unable to play. Someone isn't going to fake claim that they are having difficulties connecting to the internet because they are scum. And if they do, then that's and that player should be mod-killed (in my own personal opinion).

Today, examine who voted who yesterday, and why. Question people on things you find odd. And use your vote when the situation warrants it.
Oh, and talking why I or anyone else got nightkilled is not a good idea. Basing a case entirely on who got nightkilled is worse.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 05:10:05 pm

Tea why do you think osg is town? or rather why player over osg?

On much brighter news The night kill is good for us Perseus wasn't really doing anything except lurking. Which makes me wonder about 4mask, but i quickly put that thought to bed because 4mask would have picked imho someone who was active and was probably left alive because of misguided ideas/reads/or what have you. Long story short I think one of the mafia is a newer player or someone who has been found out/ caught by Perseus13 and respects him enough to kill him.

It doesn't help that almost everybody wasn't voting. I don't think darkstar even posted. I have this crazy out there theory that dani and Dorsi might be scum. but idk am really comfortable with what dani has said so far don't lik that they chose not to extend.

osg and tea is another potential team I have in mind. mainly because of tea attacking Dorsi.

So I have 4mask as a definite town read. Am doubting the 4 i mentioned dani, Dorsi, tea, and osg; I like that tea and Dorsi were voting for somebody . No relevant reads on tds his predecessor was meh but what can you do. As far as the associations they are based on what's happened so far. and are my personal thoughts and are subject to change at anytime. I think osg and tea is the far more likely one tho. why not osg and Dorsi? I doubt highly that bussing is a sound strategy for scum. So yeah it might be dangerous making those assumptions but they are mine to make. I'll go look over what Perseus was thinking.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:37:43 pm

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 05:10:05 pm

Tea why do you think osg is town? or rather why player over osg?

Earlier quote regarding his responses to my questioning him about the rolefishing/filler questions/his initial responses to Dorsidwaf:

Quote from: Tea on April 16, 2015, 01:36:53 am

I actually kinda like OSG's responses in here so far as he doesn't seem at all defensive and I generally get the sense that he believes what he's saying.

And I mean, you can see my kinda stream of consciousness posting in the thread. I had just woken up, was like "oh my god fuck you guys for not showing up and extending DL, ooh I have 10 minutes to catch up on the thread and make a decision." While ideally I'd like to lynch scummy people over people who don't post, I didn't feel OSG was particularly scummy, had no confidence that Playergamer would suddenly get more active (and that even if we did get him replaced, would the replacement even post...? signs point to no) so I decided to vote off the dead weight and hope for the best as it seems fuckin stupid to vote someone off because they are posting??

Roo:
1) For the love of god, did you go read the first post and get a handle on the setup like I asked yet? Once you do, please let me know how that has that changed your perspective on relevant earlier conversations! This is the third time I've asked. :|
2) You seem much less confident about OSG being town. What different things are you seeing?
3) Why do you think 4mask had misguided ideas or reads when all he posted was theory? <_< What ideas do you think scum thought were misguided?
4) Why was my questioning of Dorsidwaf (which was in like, a post?) more significant than my questioning of other players (TheDarkStar's predecessor, you, OSG) to the point that you think it connects me to Dorsid?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:43:39 pm

Oh and also, roo, why didn't you vote for a day extension?

Dani and 4mask, I'm pretty mad that you dropped the ball on that too. @Dani- are you actually content w/ the information we got from yesterDay and the nightkill?

Hey mod, is Dark Star actually even gonna play?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:50:39 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:37:43 pm

Roo:
4) Why was my questioning of Dorsidwaf (which was in like, a post?) more significant than my questioning of other players (TheDarkStar's predecessor, you, OSG) to the point that you think it connects me to Dorsid?

Now realizing I kinda misread your post and that you think me/OrigamiScienceGuy is more likely than me/Dorsidwaf. I'd rather now ask you to expand on why OSG/me is the most likely scumpair out of anyone in the game?

I guess I find it particularly irritating since the pool of people posting content is so small that it doesn't seem like analysis of pairs is going to be useful? But it feels like you're not taking into account everything I've posted, either.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Persus13 on April 20, 2015, 06:07:30 pm

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 05:10:05 pm

Tea why do you think osg is town? or rather why player over osg?

On much brighter news The night kill is good for us Perseus wasn't really doing anything except lurking. Which makes me wonder about 4mask, but i quickly put that thought to bed because 4mask would have picked imho someone who was active and was probably left alive because of misguided ideas/reads/or what have you. Long story short I think one of the mafia is a newer player or someone who has been found out/ caught by Perseus13 and respects him enough to kill him.

It doesn't help that almost everybody wasn't voting. I don't think darkstar even posted. I have this crazy out there theory that dani and Dorsi might be scum. but idk am really comfortable with what dani has said so far don't lik that they chose not to extend.

osg and tea is another potential team I have in mind. mainly because of tea attacking Dorsi.

So I have 4mask as a definite town read. Am doubting the 4 i mentioned dani, Dorsi, tea, and osg; I like that tea and Dorsi were voting for somebody . No relevant reads on tds his predecessor was meh but what can you do. As far as the associations they are based on what's happened so far. and are my personal thoughts and are subject to change at anytime. I think osg and tea is the far more likely one tho. why not osg and Dorsi? I doubt highly that bussing is a sound strategy for scum. So yeah it might be dangerous making those assumptions but they are mine to make. I'll go look over what Perseus was thinking.

Who is this Perseus guy you keep referring too?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:02:42 pm

Alright everyone, D2 has now begun.  This is when mafia games begin to get interesting, and accusations with real weight can be thrown out.  There are now one or two deaths available for viewing, the lynch and potentially a mafiakill (I'm writing this during the night so I don't know for sure).  The lynch is perhaps the best thing to analyze: who voted for the deceased, why, and with what reasoning.  This can lend some small insights into the players who were involved.  The mafiakill is much trickier and more unreliable to analyze: the death could have happened for all kinds of reasons.  To list a few possible rationales: the player was getting too close to finding the scum, the player was an easy target who wouldn't raise suspicion, the death of the player would frame someone else, or the player was deemed to be a potential threat in the future.  In the end, we as town don't know why the scum made the kill that they did, and in general analyzing it is a waste of time.

Remember, however, that while analyzing the lynch is all well and good it isn't the sole source of information the town has at its disposal.  If possible, read back over D1: what catches your eye in both good and bad ways.  If you find that a person is consistently feeling scummy to you, call them on it.  Quote or link every post and discuss what makes you feel uneasy.  Vote them.  Don't hold back.  See how they respond and see how others respond.  Remember that mafia is a game of personal opinion and ideas, so don't shy away if some others don't agree with you.  However, be careful not to tunnel so much into the person that you lose track of everyone else.

---

Alright, time for an apology.  I wanted to post and vote on Friday, when the day ended, but I was physically unable to due to being at home ill and discovering that the internet on my ipad is only online from 5:00 pm to 9:00 pm PST, and the already-known-by-me fact that the computer blocks Bay12 (my parents are over-paranoid about my schoolwork getting done).  But still, I must apologize for not being able to be around (for reference, the day ended somewhere around noon my time, I can't say the exact time because I'm on a bus and can't check).

Now time to read back over the thread at some point and figure stuff out.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 20, 2015, 07:06:24 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:43:39 pm

Hey mod, is Dark Star actually even gonna play?

I'm here now. I got the PM at the end of Day 1, but I was asleep/away from home and wasn't able to post.

A few things I've noticed:

Tea decided to lynch playergamer at the very end of the day. There was no way that playergamer could have defended himself. Tea: Why did you choose to lynch playergamer over OSG? roo: Same question as the one to Tea.

Tea: Why did your vote on Illgeo for inactivity stay on him after he was replaced?

Everyone: Why didn't you extend yesterday?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 20, 2015, 07:06:24 pm

Everyone: Why didn't you extend yesterday?

I already answered this: I could see everything you were saying, because for some reason the "blanket internet blocker" that activates for most of the day for my iPad allows me to get emails, so I could get the gist of what was going on due to notifications.  However, I was entirely unable to actually post anything, even though the conversation was flowing.  I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:16:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:37:43 pm

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 05:10:05 pm

Tea why do you think osg is town? or rather why player over osg?

Earlier quote regarding his responses to my questioning him about the rolefishing/filler questions/his initial responses to Dorsidwaf:

Quote from: Tea on April 16, 2015, 01:36:53 am

I actually kinda like OSG's responses in here so far as he doesn't seem at all defensive and I generally get the sense that he believes what he's saying.

And I mean, you can see my kinda stream of consciousness posting in the thread. I had just woken up, was like "oh my god fuck you guys for not showing up and extending DL, ooh I have 10 minutes to catch up on the thread and make a decision." While ideally I'd like to lynch scummy people over people who don't post, I didn't feel OSG was particularly scummy, had no confidence that Playergamer would suddenly get more active (and that even if we did get him replaced, would the replacement even post...? signs point to no) so I decided to vote off the dead weight and hope for the best as it seems fuckin stupid to vote someone off because they are posting??

Roo:
1) For the love of god, did you go read the first post and get a handle on the setup like I asked yet? Once you do, please let me know how that has that changed your perspective on relevant earlier conversations! This is the third time I've asked. :|
2) You seem much less confident about OSG being town. What different things are you seeing?
3) Why do you think 4mask had misguided ideas or reads when all he posted was theory? <_< What ideas do you think scum thought were misguided?
4) Why was my questioning of Dorsidwaf (which was in like, a post?) more significant than my questioning of other players (TheDarkStar's predecessor, you, OSG) to the point that you think it connects me to Dorsid?

1.) Yes, but it didn't really change anything for me. Like nothing changed at all in terms of reads. it's one of three setups trying which is relevant if you're trying to find a game breaking strategy. And also relevant if you're trying to find some prs. Are you trying to find prs? Why so interested in the setup? And why did you think it might change my reads?
2.)Osg not voting. Tea defending osg by attacking Dorsi.
3.) I said it was a possibility. Not that I was certain. I posted that in response to the NK and my first initial reactions to it. I still have to reread.
4.) Are you saying I shouldn't ask those questions, You are confused why I am "singling" you out (even tho I don't think that is what I am doing), or that their is no basis for my questions?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:17:54 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:43:39 pm

Oh and also, roo, why didn't you vote for a day extension?

Dani and 4mask, I'm pretty mad that you dropped the ball on that too. @Dani- are you actually content w/ the information we got from yesterDay and the nightkill?

Hey mod, is Dark Star actually even gonna play?

I did vote for one.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:21:43 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:50:39 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:37:43 pm

Roo:
4) Why was my questioning of Dorsidwaf (which was in like, a post?) more significant than my questioning of other players (TheDarkStar's predecessor, you, OSG) to the point that you think it connects me to Dorsid?

Now realizing I kinda misread your post and that you think me/OrigamiScienceGuy is more likely than me/Dorsidwaf. I'd rather now ask you to expand on why OSG/me is the most likely scumpair out of anyone in the game?

I guess I find it particularly irritating since the pool of people posting content is so small that it doesn't seem like analysis of pairs is going to be useful? But it feels like you're not taking into account everything I've posted, either.

The second part. I am not taking everything into account. I am biased and will pick out what I deem relevant. And I already mentioned that I know associative tells preflips are unappealing, but that they're mine to make. And mostly your questions to Dorsi seemed much more aggressive when you never mentioned him at all as you pointed out. He was attacking osg and it felt like you were defending osg. So osg falls in my town ladder because of you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 20, 2015, 07:06:24 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 05:43:39 pm

Hey mod, is Dark Star actually even gonna play?

I'm here now. I got the PM at the end of Day 1, but I was asleep/away from home and wasn't able to post.

A few things I've noticed:

Tea decided to lynch playergamer at the very end of the day. There was no way that playergamer could have defended himself. Tea: Why did you choose to lynch playergamer over OSG? roo: Same question as the one to Tea.

Tea: Why did your vote on Illgeo for inactivity stay on him after he was replaced?

Everyone: Why didn't you extend yesterday?

Hmmmm not sure what to make of this as far as opening posts for a replacement seems a bit underwhelming no offense. Would rather have known where you stand on everyone tbh. Any initial reads? Or not giving anything away? If so why not?

Your question: It was a rather tactical reason actually. Dorsi was contributing player wasn't. I would rather have Dorsi over Playergamer. I feel for him that he has internet problems I do, but I wanna enjoy the game. Does that make me a bastard? If so I can live with it. I am actually very unsure about DD this day than I was last day. my mind was telling me to vote for player my gut for Dorsi, So I think I made the right choice. Did I think Playergamer was scum not entirely did I think Dorsi was scum not completely. Town prevented a potential lurker being mislynched endgame and scum got rid of deadweight for town. And Tea voting for player gamer actually makes me want to put him in my town pile but a couple things are preventing that.

tds on what you've read who do you think needs to feel the heat?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:47:40 pm

roo: You seem to be remarkably keen on declaring one person at a time to be solid town.  Pretty much every time I've seen your reads at least one person is marked as town, even the one you made early on in the game.  What, specifically, draws you to a town read on me?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 08:05:52 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:47:40 pm

roo: You seem to be remarkably keen on declaring one person at a time to be solid town.  Pretty much every time I've seen your reads at least one person is marked as town, even the one you made early on in the game.  What, specifically, draws you to a town read on me?

Every game? Is the fact that I'm calling you town this game the significant difference and so are curious?

I think I need to trust someone. And it helps me immensely if I do not need to worry about one person and look to them for advice on reads. Perseus dying makes me think you're next to die. Mafia killed an IC makes sense they'll kill the next one off. If you remain alive next day my read might change. You are only town in my eyes as long as I deem you town. It is subject to change like any read. On that note what are your reads 4mask?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 08:51:38 pm

I was referring to this specific game, I haven't seen enough of you in other games to make generalizations.

I'll get to reads eventually, still processing the game so far.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 10:00:40 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 08:51:38 pm

I was referring to this specific game, I haven't seen enough of you in other games to make generalizations.

I'll get to reads eventually, still processing the game so far.

I don't mind processing. I can live with it to an extent.  But at what point do you think processing hurts instead of helps? I mean thinking and theorizing is all well and good, but it doesn't really move a game forward does it? Based on what you've seen gun to your head who is town and who is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 10:01:48 pm

You're not going to get an answer until tomorrow morning at the EARLIEST, because I'm up to my ears in homework and have like five big projects due in the near future.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 20, 2015, 10:06:01 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 20, 2015, 07:06:24 pm

Tea decided to lynch playergamer at the very end of the day. There was no way that playergamer could have defended himself. Tea: Why did you choose to lynch playergamer over OSG?

I mean, I already answered this, but I'll give it another go. I woke up and signed on when there was like 12 minutes left before deadline. I placed my vote when there was one minute left in the day. Nobody was going to be able to defend anything in those circumstances; I could move my vote to one of them and have a lynch happen, or I could let no lynch happen. The first post said that no lynches are terrible because of the lack of information, and so I was like all right fine I'll make a decision. As I said at the time, the decision felt pretty random due to the lack of information that had been posted...I had had some vague good feelings about some things OSG had answered, but he was saying some confusing shit at the end of the day and hadn't yet answered some questions from Dorsidwaf and 4mask. Playergamer just hadn't done shit, period, and showed no signs of ever doing shit, period, so I decided to lynch the dead weight and hope for the best. (As I had more confidence OSG would show up to "defend himself" or at least, like, do something that can be read, maybe.

Regarding not unvoting illgeo, I wasn't really sure how to react to the replace out request, it didn't seem like there was enough time to try out another pressure vote, I didn't have strong enough feelings about any of the active players to want to move it, I was really fucking tired, unvoting seemed boring, and I thought it might motivate you to post?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 20, 2015, 10:22:29 pm

Quote from: roo

1.) Yes, but it didn't really change anything for me. Like nothing changed at all in terms of reads. it's one of three setups trying which is relevant if you're trying to find a game breaking strategy. And also relevant if you're trying to find some prs. Are you trying to find prs? Why so interested in the setup? And why did you think it might change my reads?

You seemed confused about why the initial fake-cop-claiming thing was happening and why it was so bad to bring up who you think the cop might be; I wanted you to understand that jailkeeper!=doctor because that's relevant to both of those things. No, I am not interested in outing the PRs - making sure you understand why it's bad to out who you think is cop is part of that. You've been saying things all game that show you completely weren't understanding my thought processes and it was frustrating me, but I guess you still don't. -_-

I guess the other basis of my frustration is that I don't even understand why me "defending" OSG by way of questioning Dorsidwaf is a scumtell? I don't get why it's one thing in the thread you seem to be basing all of your other reads on, at all, when there's other..actual blatant defending that has happened that you've found completely understandable. And if you're that sure about it, why aren't you voting me?

Your assessment of why 4mask wasn't killed seems really arbitrary, which is also annoying because that's one of the things you seem most sure on. Tbh I thought it was weird that Persus would get killed over him. I can think of possible reasons 4mask would be left alive if he's town, but given that neither Persus33 nor 4mask disagreed on anything or really posted reads, I don't know why 4mask being more wrong would be a factor and it sounds like you're reaching.

Can you also explain why OSG not voting is worse than, say, Dani (someone with no pressure on them) not voting? By not voting, OSG was potentially letting himself get lynched. Or am I misunderstanding you that you actually think it's worse, and it's just the combination of me 'defending' him and him not voting (in which case, can you explain that)?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 10:39:29 pm

Only two people are playing, while 4 mask theorizes.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 20, 2015, 11:37:46 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 20, 2015, 10:22:29 pm

Quote from: roo

1.) Yes, but it didn't really change anything for me. Like nothing changed at all in terms of reads. it's one of three setups trying which is relevant if you're trying to find a game breaking strategy. And also relevant if you're trying to find some prs. Are you trying to find prs? Why so interested in the setup? And why did you think it might change my reads?

You seemed confused about why the initial fake-cop-claiming thing was happening and why it was so bad to bring up who you think the cop might be; I wanted you to understand that jailkeeper!=doctor because that's relevant to both of those things. No, I am not interested in outing the PRs - making sure you understand why it's bad to out who you think is cop is part of that. You've been saying things all game that show you completely weren't understanding my thought processes and it was frustrating me, but I guess you still don't. -_-

I guess the other basis of my frustration is that I don't even understand why me "defending" OSG by way of questioning Dorsidwaf is a scumtell? I don't get why it's one thing in the thread you seem to be basing all of your other reads on, at all, when there's other..actual blatant defending that has happened that you've found completely understandable. And if you're that sure about it, why aren't you voting me?

Your assessment of why 4mask wasn't killed seems really arbitrary, which is also annoying because that's one of the things you seem most sure on. Tbh I thought it was weird that Persus would get killed over him. I can think of possible reasons 4mask would be left alive if he's town, but given that neither Persus33 nor 4mask disagreed on anything or really posted reads, I don't know why 4mask being more wrong would be a factor and it sounds like you're reaching.

Can you also explain why OSG not voting is worse than, say, Dani (someone with no pressure on them) not voting? By not voting, OSG was potentially letting himself get lynched. Or am I misunderstanding you that you actually think it's worse, and it's just the combination of me 'defending' him and him not voting (in which case, can you explain that)?

I wasn't confuse about the hypo-cop thing. Just thought it was misguided and not worth doing. It especially fails if their is no cop. Thinking about the setup is fine discussing it is fine. Creating much ado about nothing over the setup is slightly scummy in my book. What is gained from discussing the setup? That everyone is dandy and fine on it? Just fluff posts imo. Don't think it is worth going into in depth. Don't get frustrated I wasn't really paying attention to setup discussion. I saw no value in it.

I am not entirely sure about everything. I think that it was interesting that you chose player over osg. Both imho seemed like valid lynches if we are being completely real. Osg towards the end was looking worse. Seemed confused, withdrawn, reluctant. I would have said osg just can't really handle pressure well if asked last day phase. But if we look logically at the game from today. (what makes it so interesting is that wagons require a plurality instead of a set number; a problem imho). is that you hammered town and defended osg by proxy via attacking Dorsi. Now I wanted to vote Dorsi but I think the vote would have been a bad call. I might have been scum reading him because he was scum reading my town read. It was essentially Dorsi questioning my intelligence i don't think I swallowed that very well. So I think an apology might be in order (eventually). Now when I say attack it might be too aggressive, I also give rise to the possibilty that you are scum because only you and I are playing. So I might just bring you into the town pile and we can start lurker hunting.

and the 4mask read I don't think I am reaching honestly. I do think he is town. And you are right 4mask was mostly theorizing and not giving reads, but I think it might be one of the reasons he was left alive. I mean I don't know what to say to convince you that he is town. I am seeing everything he does or doesn't do through town colored eyes. it'll take some convincing on others parts to break that read today.

Now dani is fairly interesting low minimal activity. Okay posts. I can see their thought process fairly easily. Easy going. Doesn't really care about the game, which is evidenced by the not voting. The not voting is bad in my eyes. I don't think it's a scum tell (okay small scum tell) I think it's a don't give a crap about the game. And The main reason why osg has gone down is because you chose to not vote osg. You gave a reason which I found compelling, But this game has to make sense logically. Scum want as many mislynches in order to win the game. You caused a mislynch. Am I partly to blame? Yes. Do I regret it? no. Does it make me a hypocrite? probably. I don't mind tho. I didn't crusade for player gamers lynch i offered him up as an alternative to osg my town read at the time. When you asked Dorsi questions it seemed slightly defensive and fairly aggressive. And he is(?) going after osg. So yeah a potential scum pair. You attacking the player who is voting for someone you didn't hammer.  a bit convoluted and a hell of a title but I see a potential connection their.

Why am I not voting you? Because you seem to be the only other person playing and I don't want to alienate because I am not even close to sold on tea scum. Who do you think is town who do you think is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 20, 2015, 11:44:44 pm

Sorry if I am sounding off. But have had to buckle down on schoolwork recently.

I am getting a town read on roo because he has a very distinguishable difference between his scum play and town play as far as I've observed and he is following his town. (more aggressive, and less angry)

I am getting a slight town lean on tea for bringing up good points with tangible evidence.

4mask's attitude against day extend worries me. While I know his concern for letting the game die, It does make him seem rushed. Slight scum lean.

Everybody else really hasn't posted enough for me to get a read on.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 21, 2015, 02:37:37 am

@roo - For some reason everything you just posted makes way more sense than it did in previous iterations. I also realized that I kinda skimmed the couple of pages right before when the lynch happened because I was really tired and out of it, so I'll look back over it when I get a chance.

Night all

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 01:42:36 pm

Everyone Hey guys, sorry for not posting sooner, I didn't see that the day had come.

Roo: Why has the person you chose to vote for by logic instead of voting me based on 'your gut' flipping town  made you think me as more towny? Surely the opposite would be implied by that?

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 05:10:05 pm

osg and tea is another potential team I have in mind. mainly because of tea attacking Dorsi.

This is called Chainsawing, and as it's a fairly major scumtell, you should probbably provide quoted posts when you accuse somebody of it. I personally couldn't see tea's fairly basic questions as a chainsaw defense.

Tea: Lynching a lurker for lurking probbably wasn't the best day 1 choice, as there's no way to examine connections and their posts to get solid detective work day. However, it sounds like you had to make pretty much a snap choice, and at the end of the Day, what's done is done.

Why have you been trying to analyse the scumkill, even though 2 ICs and the starter post told you not to?

4maskwolf

Quote from: 4maskwolf link=topic=149777.msg6178185#msg6178185 date=yesterday

I'll get to reads eventually, still processing the game so far.

Feel like getting around to posting your reads? Unless I'm being buggered by the time gap, this was yesterday. How long do reads of 6 players get?

Origamiscienceguy:
Was constant questioning, scumreading, and a vote not enough posting for you to get a read on me, OSG? Or did you try and leave me out of your reads to avoid an OMGUS accusation?

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 20, 2015, 11:44:44 pm

4mask's attitude against day extend worries me. While I know his concern for letting the game die, It does make him seem rushed. Slight scum lean.

[citation needed]
I can't see an attitude against day extend - where's this?

Dani: Why are you so frequently inactive?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 01:42:36 pm

Origamiscienceguy:
Was constant questioning, scumreading, and a vote not enough posting for you to get a read on me, OSG?

Correct. I am not leaning either way on you yet. You are a confusing case for me as of now.

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 01:42:36 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 20, 2015, 11:44:44 pm

4mask's attitude against day extend worries me. While I know his concern for letting the game die, It does make him seem rushed. Slight scum lean.

[citation needed]
I can't see an attitude against day extend - where's this?

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:13:31 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 01:42:36 pm

Everyone Hey guys, sorry for not posting sooner, I didn't see that the day had come.

Roo: Why has the person you chose to vote for by logic instead of voting me based on 'your gut' flipping town  made you think me as more towny? Surely the opposite would be implied by that?

OMG being at my laptop is so much better than my phone. *breathes in* * exhales out* It does seem a bit counter-intuitive huh? But I think it is fairly sound the thought process. Mainly I was wrong; I don't know if you were right but there is a possibility. At the time I thought you were 100% wrong. And While lurker lynches don't gain anything in terms of information. They are deadweight and offer zero help to town and perpetuate paranoia. Lurkers are I think the main reason why town keeps losing. So between any lurker whoever they might be and someone semi-active god yes lynch the lurker.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Shakerag on April 21, 2015, 03:21:41 pm

The slices were horrified at recent events.  Two slices gone stale.  Despite the looming, musty threat of the mold infestation in the loaf, they all appeared to be hesitant to act.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Dani - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• TheDarkStar - (0) -
• origamiscienceguy - (0) -
• roo - (0) -
• Tea - (0) -

Not voting - (7) - 4maskwolf, Dani, Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, roo, Tea

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 24th.

---

Dani is being prodded.
Please request prods as needed if I fail to catch inactivity.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:27 pm

There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 21, 2015, 06:14:33 pm

Oh hai everyone.

Reads are still forthcoming, because I haven't actually checked the thread since I posted last yesterday and need to finish a massive english project by tomorrow, so I'm probably not going to be of any use on the reads front for the time being.

roo: I'm glad to see that you've toned down the personal aggressiveness and channeled that into aggressiveness in pursuing things in game.

origamiscienceguy: Now I have a bone to pick with you.  What I referenced was something outside of the context of the game (or any game, for that matter) and was thus my honest opinion on the matter.  If you don't agree with me, you can say so, but game beliefs people espouse aren't grounds for suspicion of lynching.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 21, 2015, 06:15:05 pm

EBWOP: That was supposed to be suspicion or lynching.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 21, 2015, 06:31:04 pm

roo:

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Why?

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Why is Dorsi scummy for voting for you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 21, 2015, 06:39:12 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 21, 2015, 06:31:04 pm

roo:

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Why?

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Why is Dorsi scummy for voting for you?

I explain it fairly well in the post you quoted. Please feel free to say what part confused you. I am more than happy to oblige.

@dorsi would this count as chainsawing? Don't answer it was for everyone else's benefit.
@TDS First post you quoted are you saying why the extend or why the vote? If both I explained why the extend. And I voted you because there was no better alternative at that time. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 21, 2015, 08:11:34 pm

I might be back in like five hours but I'm busy so maybe not

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 01:42:36 pm

Tea: Lynching a lurker for lurking probbably wasn't the best day 1 choice, as there's no way to examine connections and their posts to get solid detective work day. However, it sounds like you had to make pretty much a snap choice, and at the end of the Day, what's done is done.

Why have you been trying to analyse the scumkill, even though 2 ICs and the starter post told you not to?

I mean, I've analyzed it way more in private than I have in public because it's apparently bad! Still have no idea why though - I remember Persus said it was bad, but didn't say why (when he popped back up, he decided to just make fun of someone for misspelling his name!) If the first post or if 4mask mentioned it, I didn't see it. My in-thread discussion of the kill was b/c I wanted to engage with roo about their analysis b/c their reasoning was questionable to the point of being odd.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:36:52 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

So I'm confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to have the opportunity to post over the weekend and were aware of at least another player that would benefit from it..?

Wait, are there seriously not one but two people voting roo for trying to extend the deadline? Lmao how is that the most voteworthy thing in the thread. Holy shit. I think Dark Star bandwagoning on that shit without doing a legit catch-up is worse than Dorsid but I just don't even

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:39:42 am

hey I forgot to bold but plz read the above post 4mask/Dark Star/Dorsidwaf. also can someone tell me why talking about nightkills is bad?? third time I've asked

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Shakerag on April 22, 2015, 09:10:20 am

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Dani - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (1) - roo
• TheDarkStar - (0) -
• origamiscienceguy - (0) -
• roo - (2) - Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar
• Tea - (0) -

Not voting - (4) - 4maskwolf, Dani, origamiscienceguy, Tea

Extension requests: 1 (roo)
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 24th.  (Approx. 51 hours)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 22, 2015, 02:00:15 pm

I wish. I wish. I wish the people here would post. I wish the pages full of ink. I wish that ink be full thought. I wish please. Oh well. Hey Tea what server do you play on?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 22, 2015, 03:42:39 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:36:52 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

So I'm confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to have the opportunity to post over the weekend and were aware of at least another player that would benefit from it..?

Wait, are there seriously not one but two people voting roo for trying to extend the deadline? Lmao how is that the most voteworthy thing in the thread. Holy shit. I think Dark Star bandwagoning on that shit without doing a legit catch-up is worse than Dorsid but I just don't even

At this point, it's a pressure vote. Day 2 will still run for a while and there's still lots of time for him to answer.

Roo: Why did you think that I was the best person to vote?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:48:11 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 21, 2015, 06:31:04 pm

roo:

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Why?

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Why is Dorsi scummy for voting for you?

The question implies you think the vote was a very valid and well reasoned one or am I mistaken?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 22, 2015, 03:42:39 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:36:52 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

So I'm confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to have the opportunity to post over the weekend and were aware of at least another player that would benefit from it..?

Wait, are there seriously not one but two people voting roo for trying to extend the deadline? Lmao how is that the most voteworthy thing in the thread. Holy shit. I think Dark Star bandwagoning on that shit without doing a legit catch-up is worse than Dorsid but I just don't even

At this point, it's a pressure vote. Day 2 will still run for a while and there's still lots of time for him to answer.

Roo: Why did you think that I was the best person to vote?

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 23, 2015, 12:03:29 am

thedarkstar

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 23, 2015, 12:09:57 am

Alrightyo, it's 10 PM my time and I should be asleep right now but here's what I'm thinking right now:

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:36:52 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

So I'm confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to have the opportunity to post over the weekend and were aware of at least another player that would benefit from it..?

Please go read my rant in the mafia theory thread.  It contains my thoughts on the matter.  It should be the last thing on my most recent post on it.

Urk my brain is trying to shut down, but I'll try to do my best in this post.

origamiscienceguy, where are you?  You're usually THE most active poster in any game you play, and now you're disappeared.  Wub is up with you?

Tea: Please explain your vote on TDS.

roo: Do remember that TDS replaced in partway through the day, and take post number into account when making accusations like that.

TheDarkStar: What do you think of roo's accusations?

Dani: Wherefore art thou?

Dorsidwarf: You have yet to respond to roo's accusations.  Wherefore art thou?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 23, 2015, 12:12:51 am

hi 4mask! you replied while I was writing up an explanation

thedarkstar only choosing to engage w/ the person that voted him is lazy, bad and kinda scummy. it's like he wanted to OMGUS but then came up with the pressure vote excuse.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 23, 2015, 12:20:43 am

I still think it's weird that you were imagining at some point wanting to be able to post on the weekend and then not doing anything to give yourself the opportunity but I guess it's probably not alignment indicative

Kinda interesting that 4mask and OSG sound like they're starting to suspect each other when I get the impression they know are particularly familiar w/ each other.

There's some stuff I ought to reread but I'm trying to stop giving a shit because it makes me kind of angry when I think about how much more time I believe I've spent trying to play this game compared to like 4 of you. so happy earth day and gnight

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 23, 2015, 12:39:39 am

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 23, 2015, 12:09:57 am

Alrightyo, it's 10 PM my time and I should be asleep right now but here's what I'm thinking right now:

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:36:52 am

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on April 21, 2015, 02:03:38 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 20, 2015, 07:10:55 pm

I was also hesitant to extend over the weekend because that is a near-certain killer of activity: see my rant in the Mafia Theory thread on the matter.

Here it is. I conceded that he has a reason for it, but that still makes me wary about it.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 14, 2015, 09:34:36 pm

Tea: you're not annoying people with your posting rate, OSG and I can do far more on weekends when we don't have school (I love high school and little homework).

So I'm confused. I was under the impression that you wanted to have the opportunity to post over the weekend and were aware of at least another player that would benefit from it..?

Please go read my rant in the mafia theory thread.  It contains my thoughts on the matter.  It should be the last thing on my most recent post on it.

Urk my brain is trying to shut down, but I'll try to do my best in this post.

origamiscienceguy, where are you?  You're usually THE most active poster in any game you play, and now you're disappeared.  Wub is up with you?

Tea: Please explain your vote on TDS.

roo: Do remember that TDS replaced in partway through the day, and take post number into account when making accusations like that.

TheDarkStar: What do you think of roo's accusations?

Dani: Wherefore art thou?

Dorsidwarf: You have yet to respond to roo's accusations.  Wherefore art thou?

1.) I recognize that and am unimpressed so far. And I have taken it into acct.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2015, 06:48:59 am

PFP- laptop died last night, hence no response.

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Extensions are for when the Day's nearly over and nothing conclusive has happened/discussion is ongoing. Calling an extension at the start of the Day is odd/pointless, especially when coupled with a reason-free vote ( Which is pretty suspicious in itself.) I voted you because my other scum pick was defending you Yesterday, you're acting erratically, and making no sense whatsoever.
Additionally, your vote is quite literally the textbook definition of an OMGUS. I voted you for acting suspicious and confusingly, and you said "Wait no it was a scum trap or something honest!" And voted me. You then padded your flimsy reasoning with a general statement about B12 mafia heating up towards the end of the day (? If I'm not misunderstanding your dense stream-of-consciousness posts), before asking the blatantly rhetorical question of "Should the we-need-more-time button be pushed half a week before it becomes relevant?"

everyone else who asked a Q[\b] : I can post from my PC tonight somewhat better

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 23, 2015, 11:20:02 am

So you're saying the whole extension thing was bullshit and I was supposed to read several paragraphs of subtext. Cool.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2015, 04:37:15 pm

Quote from: roo on April 23, 2015, 11:20:02 am

So you're saying the whole extension thing was bullshit and I was supposed to read several paragraphs of subtext. Cool.

No? I'm saying that you're acting funny, and voting for a grace period days before it's needed is suspiscious enough for me to vote you. I don't expect any 'paragraphs of subtext', let alone several. I expect you to explain what's going on, why you're so buddy-buddy with OSG, why you were voting without any reason at all on D2, and why you voted for an extension out of the blue. Less than a day into the Day.

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 23, 2015, 12:09:57 am

Dorsidwarf: You have yet to respond to roo's accusations.  Wherefore art thou?

Laptop woes, Roo's accusations rebuffed in previous post.

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:39:42 am

hey I forgot to bold but plz read the above post 4mask/Dark Star/Dorsidwaf. also can someone tell me why talking about nightkills is bad?? third time I've asked

I think the reason why people aren't meant to mull over the nightkill D1 is that it leads to WIFOM.
"The scum would kill the more active player! X is scum!"
"No! They'd want us to think that, it's clearly a trick!"
"How can you tell that! Are you scum?"
"Baseless accusation! You're trying to push an agenda! Scum!"
and so forth.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2015, 04:38:37 pm

Addition to Roo: Also, mind explaining  why you voted for someone voting you with basically nothing except "You voted me! You're scum!"?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: roo on April 23, 2015, 05:05:27 pm

dorsis initial vote on me was for voting to extend the day. Doris call this suspicious behavior, but does not explain why it is suspicious. It is almost always no matter what anybody says to the benefit of the town for the day phase to last longer. There are a lot of lurkers here and some who post only once a day. I fail to see how voting for an extension now over two days later is "odd". I would love to hear how this action is alignment indicative from Dorsi. Only now when his laptop finally found a charger does Dorsi say I have been "acting funny," but does not care enough to indicate which posts led him to believe this. And only now does he say his reason for voting me. That osg his scum read was defending me yesterday, acting erratically and not making any sense. It begs the question why not vote for me yesterday? Or the beginning of today? Which of my posts are erratic and what posts don't make any sense whatsoever? One thing I do know for certain Dorsi needs more votes. It should be clear to anyone my "omgus" vote on Dorsi was a direct response to his vote on me. Dorsi voted me for wanting to extend the day. I thought that was definitely worth of pursuit and voted back.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Shakerag on April 24, 2015, 09:04:05 am

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Dani - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (1) - roo
• TheDarkStar - (1) - Tea
• origamiscienceguy - (1) - 4maskwolf
• roo - (2) - Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar
• Tea - (0) -

Not voting - (2) - Dani, origamiscienceguy

Extension requests: 1 (roo)
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 24th.

Day ends in approx. 3.5 hours

---

Seeing as that Dani never responded to my prod three days ago, that position is now up for replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 09:17:47 am

I can replace in. Doubt I'll do anything before day's end though.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Shakerag on April 24, 2015, 12:33:50 pm

Deus Asmoth is replaced in for Dani.

Day is extended to Monday, April 27th @ 12:30 PM due to replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 24, 2015, 02:10:05 pm

origamiscienceguy

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:02:44 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 24, 2015, 02:10:05 pm

origamiscienceguy

Good job tying a lynch at the end of the day with no explanation, Tea. I'd be surprised if you and roo weren't scumbuddies right now.

Why did you think the OSG vote was good?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:05:20 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:02:44 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 24, 2015, 02:10:05 pm

origamiscienceguy

Good job tying a lynch with no explanation, Tea. I'd be surprised if you and roo weren't scumbuddies right now.

Why did you think the OSG vote was good?

EBWOP because I missed the extension.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:09:21 pm

Tea:Why are you voting OSG? I'm noticing a really annoying trend of people just voting without explanation this game.
OSG: Feel like playing anytime in the next millenium?
  You last logged in a few hours ago. Why are you pretending to be away? Lurking when people have asked you questions and are  expecting you could be considered rude. And scummy.
TDS:Why does tying the lynch (especially with another 3 day mod extension) make him so scummy? Or is the operative phrase "with no explanation"?. I haven't heard anything much from you, especially not suspiscion on a Tea-Roo scumteam. Why does Tea voting OSG make you think they're allied?
Roo: Try playing bay12 forum mafia here, instead of Town Of Salem.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:11:13 pm

EBWOP:
Due to time differences between forum time and UK time, I misjudged the last time OSG was on. He was last active at 5:00:52 PM, or about 10 minutes before my post. That's a pretty good example of lurking, I think.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 05:13:02 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:09:21 pm

TDS:Why does tying the lynch (especially with another 3 day mod extension) make him so scummy? Or is the operative phrase "with no explanation"?. I haven't heard anything much from you, especially not suspiscion on a Tea-Roo scumteam. Why does Tea voting OSG make you think they're allied?

I remembered seeing that the day was supposed to end today. After posting, I saw the post about the extend. If the day was actually ending around now, I'd be very suspicious, but I'm just mildly suspicious because of the lack of a reason for that vote.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 24, 2015, 06:24:46 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:09:21 pm

Tea:Why are you voting OSG? I'm noticing a really annoying trend of people just voting without explanation this game.
OSG: Feel like playing anytime in the next millenium?
  You last logged in a few hours ago. Why are you pretending to be away? Lurking when people have asked you questions and are  expecting you could be considered rude. And scummy.
TDS:Why does tying the lynch (especially with another 3 day mod extension) make him so scummy? Or is the operative phrase "with no explanation"?. I haven't heard anything much from you, especially not suspiscion on a Tea-Roo scumteam. Why does Tea voting OSG make you think they're allied?
Roo: Try playing bay12 forum mafia here, instead of Town Of Salem.

Dorsi, enlighten me. I don't know what you are trying to say; if anything. Are you attempting to inlaid are what I'm saying? I you need advice on doing that I suggest actually responding to the questions in my post. Or perhaps explaining why what I said is not logical from a town perspective. Or maybe anything besides a one liner that has not relevant meaning. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 07:18:57 pm

Quote from: roo on April 24, 2015, 06:24:46 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:09:21 pm

Tea:Why are you voting OSG? I'm noticing a really annoying trend of people just voting without explanation this game.
OSG: Feel like playing anytime in the next millenium?
  You last logged in a few hours ago. Why are you pretending to be away? Lurking when people have asked you questions and are  expecting you could be considered rude. And scummy.
TDS:Why does tying the lynch (especially with another 3 day mod extension) make him so scummy? Or is the operative phrase "with no explanation"?. I haven't heard anything much from you, especially not suspiscion on a Tea-Roo scumteam. Why does Tea voting OSG make you think they're allied?
Roo: Try playing bay12 forum mafia here, instead of Town Of Salem.

Dorsi, enlighten me. I don't know what you are trying to say; if anything. Are you attempting to inlaid are what I'm saying? I you need advice on doing that I suggest actually responding to the questions in my post. Or perhaps explaining why what I said is not logical from a town perspective. Or maybe anything besides a one liner that has not relevant meaning.

The one liner is, frankly, to sum up in (()) since it is not related to this particular game of mafia,
((I'm suggesting you play Bay12 Mafia, a game of paranoia, intrigue, logic and subterfuge, in which the goal is to discern who the scum are by logical reasoning, deductions, and occasional rapid-fire pressuring attacks to attempt to 'break' people, as well as a whole suite of tactics, tells, and strategies individual players have developed.
You, on the other hand, seem to be playing Town Of Salem, in which the primary method is to scream the loudest that whoever you like least should be lynched, every player is interested in himself and his survival only and cannot comprehend the idea of a 'differing viewpoint', and which relies on power roles to get anything useful done other than pass the time in chat. My apologies to the moderator if this goes outside the realms of civility, but it really is grating how you amble about, flip-flopping like an (il)logic gate, voting at random, and justifying your votes soley after the fact.

Oh, and I doubt whichever your native language is (No offense intended ) writes entirely in half-capitalised unindented ten-line blocks of text with text elements rammed together at random, either, so some effort would at least be appreciated. ))

To answer the unadressed unmarked questions jammed into the last few sentences of your latest post:
(Or what I assume are questions addressed to me, as there's really no way of telling which are rhetorical and intended to persuade a reader, and which are actually aimed in my direction.

Quote from: roo on April 23, 2015, 05:05:27 pm

It begs the question why not vote for me yesterday?                            <- Because, as already stated, you were acting less suspisciously that OSG yesterday, despite your reciprocation to his defenses.
 Or the beginning of today?                  I fail to comprehend the point of asking the question: "Why didn't you vote me before I became suspiscious enough to warrant a vote, for explanation or otherwise?"
 Which of my posts are erratic and what posts don't make any sense whatsoever? See addenendum for a list of suspiscious/confusing/erratic posts I highlighted in a five-minute sweep
One thing I do know for certain Dorsi needs more votes. It should be clear to anyone my "omgus" vote on Dorsi was a direct response to his vote on me. Dorsi voted me for wanting to extend the day. I thought that was definitely worth of pursuit and voted back. This is not only a misrepresentation, but also an appeal to emotion "He NEEDS you to vote him for nebulous reasons which I will now proceed to lie about!"

Addendendum of roo-being-confusing-erratic-and-more

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:40:35 pm

FTR tho am not in favor of the aforementioned cop play. It does not make any sense here. unless tea is crumbling cop should probably keep that to myself. Thoughts on this anyone?

I also like origami as town this game gut mostly. I'm sure he'll make a post that screams town I'll quote it and show it to all.

Quote from: roo on April 14, 2015, 10:51:31 pm

I am not entirely convinced it is that. The rqs is scum favored and the inability of some to post and apathy of others gets town in trouble a lot. Meta is just how people play the game. I do think some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough. And some don't take this seriously. Which incidentally I have started doing. being aggressive and competitive is definitely not the meta. If you have a problem with the mets then you by extension have a problem with the people playing; What do you wanna see change?

You say "agressive and competitive is not the meta" in such a way that implies those are negative traits, and yet consistently play a hyper-agressive playstyle.

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 12:58:13 pm

I meant: I believe tea might be breadcrumbing that he is cop; I probably should not have said that.

I know you already had a discussion about this topic, but as you say,

Quote

"some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough

, and I don't feel like letting that one slide under the circumstances just because you already excused yourself over it.

Quote from: roo on April 16, 2015, 01:08:59 pm

I'm hesitant to say any alignment indicative posts about lurkers. I mean there could be a ton of reasons why someone isn't posting. I don't wanna associate both minorities that would just be fallacious.

But then...

Quote from: roo on April 17, 2015, 09:17:50 am

@doris I mentioned player lurking in one of my posts, and explained why I think origami did what he did and why it makes him town in my eyes.
*snip*
#Playergamer. Although tbh I'd rather vote for Doris. I think potentially more associative reads can come from him. but I'd rather not give player a free pass if he's lurking scum. (sorry about internet problems player).

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:16:13 pm

2.)Osg not voting. Tea defending osg by attacking Dorsi.

NB: This never happened, as far as I can see. Also, a flip from "Dors is total scum only lynching PG because lurker" to "Tea is defending OSG by questioning my top scumpick! He's suspiscious!"

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

And Tea voting for player gamer actually makes me want to put him in my town pile but a couple things are preventing that.

tds on what you've read who do you think needs to feel the heat?

And then immediately saying that wait no she's one of your towniest people you're almost certain of her towniness.
Then proceed to ask another player for a target to aim at (Because he can't scumhunt his own, because he's scum)

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 08:05:52 pm

I think I need to trust someone. And it helps me immensely if I do not need to worry about one person and look to them for advice on reads. Perseus dying makes me think you're next to die. Mafia killed an IC makes sense they'll kill the next one off. If you remain alive next day my read might change. You are only town in my eyes as long as I deem you town. It is subject to change like any read.

What was that quote again?

Quote

"some are too forgiving or not paranoid enough

Again, erraticness and refusal to stick to any one principle/lying about principles when asked.

Quote from: roo on April 20, 2015, 10:39:29 pm

Only two people are playing, while 4 mask theorizes.

Some sort of generalised complaint, after 4mask says he's too busy to post, and that you'll have to wait till monday. At the weekend, on a sunday, expecting rapid participation from others.

And, last of all,

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Voting someone because it's "the right course of action"  (super scummy/weird)

Extending less than a day into the Day (weird)

Everything after that is the current debate between us.
If you look back at that back-catalogue (more than half your posts, as far as I can determine) and still claim to not know why I've been calling you erratic, then you really aren't being honest with yourself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 24, 2015, 07:56:24 pm

what is that saying when it rains it pours? Yeah I'm sure you meant no offense calling me an idiot [/sarcasm]. Laying the subtext pretty heavy aren't you? Well bay12 mafia sounds like a great place to play. To bad this or any recent game and I'm even more certain past game are anything like your glorified description. I have no qualms over screaming the loudest to get people who have no particular interest in playing to do something.

1.) Quote the post where you stated that You were less suspicious of me than osg.
2.) Are you saying me asking for an extension was the straw that broke the camels back?
3.) How is it a misrepresentation?

The addendum thing.
As far as I can tell is dorsi Being confused at my posts. Oh well. I suggest Dorsi you rethink your definition of "Bay12 mafia". Oh and quoting me a bunch of times and commenting on them does not convince me or I would hope anyone of your claims of "erratic behavior". Next try explaining why they are erratic.

1.) I say something is negative and play in a way I think will foster more competition and aggression. Why on earth would I do something that I view as inferior?
2.) Alright let's talk about it. I'm right here.
3.) You should read more closely. I said I am voting him because he might be lurking scum. Not because he is lurking and therefore scum. I discussed this as well in some other posts I'd rather have someone who is active over someone who is lurking.
4.) You can indeed tell it is a 5 minute sweep and are just cherry picking I sad aggressive might be to harsh. in another post. Now me calling tea town is just reaching it clearly says I am not putting tea in my town pile.
5.) lolhuh? I lied? where did I lie?
6.) how is me complaining erratic behavior?
7.)how is me voting the person who definitely needs pressure weird/scummy?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 09:48:26 pm

roo: for your number seven, voting for someone with no given reason (and 'it's the right course of action' is not a valid reason) doesn't aid the town very much at all. What's your definition of Bay12 Mafia, since you seem to disagree with Dorsi's?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 24, 2015, 10:12:00 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 09:48:26 pm

roo: for your number seven, voting for someone with no given reason (and 'it's the right course of action' is not a valid reason) doesn't aid the town very much at all. What's your definition of Bay12 Mafia, since you seem to disagree with Dorsi's?

First part noted. The question is not relevant. If you want to quibble ask me post game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 10:26:08 pm

I don't want to quibble. I want to know what you think Bay12's mafia is like and why Dorsi is wrong about it.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 24, 2015, 10:27:47 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 10:26:08 pm

I don't want to quibble. I want to know what you think Bay12's mafia is like and why Dorsi is wrong about it.

Good, then you won't have a problem waiting and asking me post game.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 24, 2015, 10:42:16 pm

I'm sorry for my inactivity everyone. Grades are due on tuesday and I need to make up a bunch of stuff.

Request Replacement

I'll keep on playing until one is found.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:08:53 am

darkstar

Come at me bro

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:14:15 am

hey 4mask do you still think osg is scummy

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:01:07 am

PFP still

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:02:44 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 24, 2015, 02:10:05 pm

origamiscienceguy

Good job tying a lynch at the end of the day with no explanation, Tea. I'd be surprised if you and roo weren't scumbuddies right now.

Why did you think the OSG vote was good?

If you're going to be that condescending, try reading the thread first, scumfuck.

I saw the DL soon mod post, threw my vote on OSG as I'd rather he was lynched than roo. I then checked to see when deadline was in my timezone so I knew when to check back to see if I'd have to switch to too, saw the extension, and then left it as a pressure vote.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:03:44 am

Tea,, if your vote on OSG was a pressure vote (in spite of you not having any questions you were pressuring him into answering), what's the logic behind your vote on TDS?

Quote from: roo on April 24, 2015, 10:27:47 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 10:26:08 pm

I don't want to quibble. I want to know what you think Bay12's mafia is like and why Dorsi is wrong about it.

Good, then you won't have a problem waiting and asking me post game.

Unfortunately, yes I will have a problem with that, because your opinion on how mafia should be played here informs on why you do certain things. The fact that you've refused to answer me twice at this point just leads me to believe you were dismissing Dorsi for the sake of being contrary.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 25, 2015, 10:00:19 am

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:14:15 am

hey 4mask do you still think osg is scummy

I vooted him to get him in the game.

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:08:53 am

darkstar

Come at me bro

Tea and roo: please start explaining your votes in the same post that you make them, unless there is a VERY good reason not to.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 11:46:07 am

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:03:44 am

Tea,, if your vote on OSG was a pressure vote (in spite of you not having any questions you were pressuring him into answering), what's the logic behind your vote on TDS?

Quote from: roo on April 24, 2015, 10:27:47 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 10:26:08 pm

I don't want to quibble. I want to know what you think Bay12's mafia is like and why Dorsi is wrong about it.

Good, then you won't have a problem waiting and asking me post game.

Unfortunately, yes I will have a problem with that, because your opinion on how mafia should be played here informs on why you do certain things. The fact that you've refused to answer me twice at this point just leads me to believe you were dismissing Dorsi for the sake of being contrary.

That's fine; your assumptions are your own.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:31:17 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 25, 2015, 10:00:19 am

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:14:15 am

hey 4mask do you still think osg is scummy

I vooted him to get him in the game.

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 12:08:53 am

darkstar

Come at me bro

Tea and roo: please start explaining your votes in the same post that you make them, unless there is a VERY good reason not to.

I feel like my reasons for revoting dark star should be obvious to people who have read my last like five posts! Do you think anyone is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:03:44 am

Tea,, if your vote on OSG was a pressure vote (in spite of you not having any questions you were pressuring him into answering), what's the logic behind your vote on TDS?

Quote from: roo on April 24, 2015, 10:27:47 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 24, 2015, 10:26:08 pm

I don't want to quibble. I want to know what you think Bay12's mafia is like and why Dorsi is wrong about it.

Good, then you won't have a problem waiting and asking me post game.

Unfortunately, yes I will have a problem with that, because your opinion on how mafia should be played here informs on why you do certain things. The fact that you've refused to answer me twice at this point just leads me to believe you were dismissing Dorsi for the sake of being contrary.

I just left it as something for him to react to and as possible motivation to post about fking anything at all (to which the response was replacing out? Which is annoying as shit and I don't really know what to do about!) Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 02:49:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Would it really have been so difficult to include this reasoning when you voted for him?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 03:04:26 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 02:49:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Would it really have been so difficult to include this reasoning when you voted for him?

Feel free to contribute instead of continuously posting fluff questions that generate fluff posts. :rolls:

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 03:05:39 pm

Have you read the game DA?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 25, 2015, 05:55:39 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 02:49:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Would it really have been so difficult to include this reasoning when you voted for him?

Somewhat, as I'm on mobile and busyish? Mostly I was trying to annoy him tho. What was the point of this question?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 06:29:03 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 03:04:26 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 02:49:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Would it really have been so difficult to include this reasoning when you voted for him?

Feel free to contribute instead of continuously posting fluff questions that generate fluff posts. :rolls:

My apologies, Person Who Has Repeatedly Refused to Answer My Simple Question. Allow me to post an essay to satisfy your standards for participation.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:18:30 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 06:29:03 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 03:04:26 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 02:49:13 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Would it really have been so difficult to include this reasoning when you voted for him?

Feel free to contribute instead of continuously posting fluff questions that generate fluff posts. :rolls:

My apologies, Person Who Has Repeatedly Refused to Answer My Simple Question. Allow me to post an essay to satisfy your standards for participation.

How about a post that indicates that you have actually read the thread? Instead of pointless inane questions that serve no purpose.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

I'll take that as a no. That you haven't read the thread.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:50:14 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

I'll take that as a no. That you haven't read the thread.

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 11:46:07 am

That's fine; your assumptions are your own.

Much as I'd like to leave it at that due to my enjoyment of being a smart arse, I don't see where you're getting that idea. But in any case, let's start on how my question is inane and pointless considering I've already given my reasoning behind it and you've still not answered it in spite of one sentence being more than enough to do so. Though if we're going on about inane questions, let's think about the fact that your only question to me has been utterly pointless.

Then, if you want me to bring up some past details to satisfy your need to ensure that I know my history, why did you decide to vote for Playergamer despite thinking Dorsi was scummier? Is a possible lurker seriously that much of a threat to you, or were you just going for someone who mightn't be able to defend themselves?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 25, 2015, 09:04:08 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Where do you see this? Include quotes, please.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 25, 2015, 09:18:11 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:50:14 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

I'll take that as a no. That you haven't read the thread.

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 11:46:07 am

That's fine; your assumptions are your own.

Much as I'd like to leave it at that due to my enjoyment of being a smart arse, I don't see where you're getting that idea. But in any case, let's start on how my question is inane and pointless considering I've already given my reasoning behind it and you've still not answered it in spite of one sentence being more than enough to do so. Though if we're going on about inane questions, let's think about the fact that your only question to me has been utterly pointless.

Then, if you want me to bring up some past details to satisfy your need to ensure that I know my history, why did you decide to vote for Playergamer despite thinking Dorsi was scummier? Is a possible lurker seriously that much of a threat to you, or were you just going for someone who mightn't be able to defend themselves?

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:50:14 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

I'll take that as a no. That you haven't read the thread.

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 11:46:07 am

That's fine; your assumptions are your own.

Much as I'd like to leave it at that due to my enjoyment of being a smart arse, I don't see where you're getting that idea. But in any case, let's start on how my question is inane and pointless considering I've already given my reasoning behind it and you've still not answered it in spite of one sentence being more than enough to do so. Though if we're going on about inane questions, let's think about the fact that your only question to me has been utterly pointless.

Then, if you want me to bring up some past details to satisfy your need to ensure that I know my history, why did you decide to vote for Playergamer despite thinking Dorsi was scummier? Is a possible lurker seriously that much of a threat to you, or were you just going for someone who mightn't be able to defend themselves?

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 25, 2015, 08:50:14 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 07:33:18 pm

I'll take that as a no. That you haven't read the thread.

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 11:46:07 am

That's fine; your assumptions are your own.

Much as I'd like to leave it at that due to my enjoyment of being a smart arse, I don't see where you're getting that idea. But in any case, let's start on how my question is inane and pointless considering I've already given my reasoning behind it and you've still not answered it in spite of one sentence being more than enough to do so. Though if we're going on about inane questions, let's think about the fact that your only question to me has been utterly pointless.

Then, if you want me to bring up some past details to satisfy your need to ensure that I know my history, why did you decide to vote for Playergamer despite thinking Dorsi was scummier? Is a possible lurker seriously that much of a threat to you, or were you just going for someone who mightn't be able to defend themselves?

So much for whatever your definition of what bay 12 might be. Yes let's think it through Why would a scum want to lynch a lurker? Pray tell Deus.  You seem to be flabbergasted at the idea of player being much of a threat partly because he's already dead and the rest because you already know that he is town. Or am I mistaken?

It really does show how much you have read tho. Besides the fact where I talk about the very subject you bring up at least twice before iirc. I voted Player because he might be scum the only other alternative was osg who I had as a town read, and surprise surprise no one was very active. In fact most of the players did not take a stance. I presented an alternative to my town read.

Hey Deus you have something there; it's your bias showing. Cherry picking things, trying to connect me to scum so you'll be justified in disliking me. If you're gonna vote me vote me. I tire of these monkeyshines. Find some weird erratic text or look at my voting for an extension as vote worthy (yes that was a shot at Dorsi). I still have no clue what the point of all this progression leading up to this was(I assume you'll find something vote worthy eventually). I still don't see why my opinion of the meta at this site is relevant.

And I know you've given your "justification" for wanting to satiate your curiosity about what I think of bay 12 mafia. I simply said no. Feel free to keep pressing the issue because the next time around I'll definitely tell [/sarcasm].

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Persus13 on April 26, 2015, 12:11:46 am

You guys could do better with a little bit less sarcasm in your posts. Mafia is a hard game, and if you're angry at other players and being sarcastic it just makes it harder and more difficult to get across what you are saying.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:40:08 am

On why Darkstar is annoying and scummy, ~including quotes~

first post (that I remember, anyway)

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 21, 2015, 06:31:04 pm

roo:

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 03:27:37 pm

TheDarkStar
I think this is the right course of action.

extend

Why?

Quote from: roo on April 21, 2015, 04:44:12 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 21, 2015, 04:33:50 pm

EBWOP
There are still three days in the Day, roo. Why are you trying to activate the three-day extension now?

oh cool scum.

Dorsidwarf

I am not following your line of reasoning at all. Mainly because there was none. How is voting for an extension worthy of a vote? And I noticed this weird thing where people don't post for days and instead are left to the last minute playing catch up. And what is the difference between voting for an extension now over 2 (3?) days later?

Why is Dorsi scummy for voting for you?

my thoughts on that post

Quote from: Tea on April 23, 2015, 12:12:51 am

hi 4mask! you replied while I was writing up an explanation

thedarkstar only choosing to engage w/ the person that voted him is lazy, bad and kinda scummy. it's like he wanted to OMGUS but then came up with the pressure vote excuse.

the next 2 posts

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:02:44 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 24, 2015, 02:10:05 pm

origamiscienceguy

Good job tying a lynch at the end of the day with no explanation, Tea. I'd be surprised if you and roo weren't scumbuddies right now.

Why did you think the OSG vote was good?

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 04:05:20 pm

Quote

Good job tying a lynch with no explanation, Tea. I'd be surprised if you and roo weren't scumbuddies right now.

Why did you think the OSG vote was good?

EBWOP because I missed the extension.

Now I might be biased because he sounds like a condescending prick here, but I also think he in the EBWOP still seems unreasonably invested in roo getting lynched considering he's posted zero follow-up analysis or anything at all regarding roo. He's just here to tell us that the people that have attacked him are scum together! It seems like there's more of an interest in trying to make ppl look bad than actually gamesolving...considering he just explained the roo vote as a pressure vote to get roo to answer questions. I'm not convinced he actually cares about finding scum.

another post

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 24, 2015, 05:13:02 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 24, 2015, 05:09:21 pm

TDS:Why does tying the lynch (especially with another 3 day mod extension) make him so scummy? Or is the operative phrase "with no explanation"?. I haven't heard anything much from you, especially not suspiscion on a Tea-Roo scumteam. Why does Tea voting OSG make you think they're allied?

I remembered seeing that the day was supposed to end today. After posting, I saw the post about the extend. If the day was actually ending around now, I'd be very suspicious, but I'm just mildly suspicious because of the lack of a reason for that vote.

More interested in defending self than actually following up about his earlier questions? Does he even think roo is scummy? Did he ask them to look like he was doing something or b/c he actually wanted an answer?? Who fucking knows!

only other post in the thread?

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 25, 2015, 09:04:08 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 25, 2015, 01:36:12 pm

Dark Star still seems to be pushing bad lynches with bad, scummy reasoning while not actually trying to game solve, so I decided to move it back there!

Where do you see this? Include quotes, please.

lol why do you care so much that I'm voting you (and about discrediting everyone who has ever voted you) and not care about where your own vote is?? do you actually have opinions about anything or are you going to just keep asking empty questions? how much mafia experience do you have?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 am

oh I also wanted to ask why you didn't acknowledge the post where I explained why I voted you, Dark Star.

other thoughts while I'm on a computer:
- I think Dorsid is town b/c he seems legitimately mad but I'm not actually convinced by the case he's making
- I wanna lynch darkstar but would be okay compromising on 4mask or OSG I guess

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 50 Shades of twist-ties.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 01:11:00 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 23, 2015, 04:37:15 pm

Quote from: Tea on April 22, 2015, 02:39:42 am

hey I forgot to bold but plz read the above post 4mask/Dark Star/Dorsidwaf. also can someone tell me why talking about nightkills is bad?? third time I've asked

I think the reason why people aren't meant to mull over the nightkill D1 is that it leads to WIFOM.
"The scum would kill the more active player! X is scum!"
"No! They'd want us to think that, it's clearly a trick!"
"How can you tell that! Are you scum?"
"Baseless accusation! You're trying to push an agenda! Scum!"
and so forth.

Nightkills are information. If nightkill discussion is completely off the table, this seems beneficial to scum as they have zero motivation to do suboptimal kills for WIFOM purposes, and reading into a nightkill clearly should be part of a case on a player and not a case in and of itself! But okay I guess?

Also, to follow up on why I'm not convinced by the quote walls and wars re:roo, I'm not making the connection between erratic and scummy. Trying to get a day extension early seems pro-town given how frustratingly lackluster the end of Yesterday was, and it in no way doesn't make sense to me. A better argument would be to say that it's trying to look town by pushing it that early and seems contrived, but given the push-back from players (including the living IC) about the deadline extension, I'm not understanding why that is more likely to be done by scum than town at all. This is why I was so baffled by the sudden 2 roo votes after that, and posted as such.

I guess I would appreciate if you would try to explain why, for instance, it is scummy to have both acknowledged that people tend not to be paranoid enough, and still pick a person to townread? I don't deny that it's erratic, but I think scum have more investment in presenting a consistent self-narrative. And even though roo's posts are erratic, sure, a lot of it seems emotionally consistent to me - being cynical towards the site meta after the incident Persus13 was inquiring about/apparently being a common mislynch target, and then as the game continues to be a frustrating lurkfest, making decisions that appear erratic on the basis of 'it feeling like the right thing to do' in the ongoing shitfest. I don't see the scum motivation for choosing to vote Playergamer over you, for instance, unless roo is OSG's scumbuddy or something? I need to know why it matters that roo is erratic beyond the fact that it's annoying you.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

Quote from: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 am

oh I also wanted to ask why you didn't acknowledge the post where I explained why I voted you, Dark Star.

I looked through the thread and found this quote:

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

where you voted for me because I had "no content" at the beginning of the day that I replaced in and then said that you didn't like my vote. You also said that you knew for certain that I was scum because of this and then said that Dorsi was worse even though you somehow "knew" I was scum. You also use "we", which is worrying. It has no backing and contradicts itself.

A few questions for you: Who do you find scummiest right now? What are your reads on other people? What do you think of roo?

Votecount please.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 08:48:01 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

Quote from: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 am

oh I also wanted to ask why you didn't acknowledge the post where I explained why I voted you, Dark Star.

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

Those are two different people, TDS. are you even paying attention?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 10:07:03 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 08:48:01 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

Quote from: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 am

oh I also wanted to ask why you didn't acknowledge the post where I explained why I voted you, Dark Star.

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

Those are two different people, TDS. are you even paying attention?

Huh, so they are. I just mentally merged their posts because they have similar posting styles.

Tea: Apparantly I can't actually find your explanation of why you voted for me. Can you quote it?

Roo: The questions I had for Tea are now addressed to you.

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

I looked through the thread and found this quote:

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

where you voted for me because I had "no content" at the beginning of the day that I replaced in and then said that you didn't like my vote. You also said that you knew for certain that I was scum because of this and then said that Dorsi was worse even though you somehow "knew" I was scum. You also use "we", which is worrying. It has no backing and contradicts itself.

A few questions for you: Who do you find scummiest right now? What are your reads on other people? What do you think of roo?

Votecount please.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 11:31:53 am

The second quote in the post with the purple text explains my vote on you. Lmfao that you can't even tell apart the two players that you were suggesting were scum together. Your questions indicate that you aren't reading my posts and are just nitpicking small points against you, and that you don't really care about details or solving the game, which, again, fails to convince me you are town. :]

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 11:38:22 am

Why did you not follow up on why roo voted you until now? Are you worried about getting lynched and now starting to pull stuff out if your ass?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 26, 2015, 01:02:06 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 10:07:03 am

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on April 26, 2015, 08:48:01 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

Quote from: Tea on April 26, 2015, 12:45:10 am

oh I also wanted to ask why you didn't acknowledge the post where I explained why I voted you, Dark Star.

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

Those are two different people, TDS. are you even paying attention?

Huh, so they are. I just mentally merged their posts because they have similar posting styles.

Tea: Apparantly I can't actually find your explanation of why you voted for me. Can you quote it?

Roo: The questions I had for Tea are now addressed to you.

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 08:01:45 am

I looked through the thread and found this quote:

Quote from: roo on April 22, 2015, 05:52:14 pm

I don't think you were. I knew you were. No content. No stances. Even now your vote is omgus for pressure. lurking. Right now tho Dorsi is worse imho. Don't worry yes we'll lynch you yet.

where you voted for me because I had "no content" at the beginning of the day that I replaced in and then said that you didn't like my vote. You also said that you knew for certain that I was scum because of this and then said that Dorsi was worse even though you somehow "knew" I was scum. You also use "we", which is worrying. It has no backing and contradicts itself.

A few questions for you: Who do you find scummiest right now? What are your reads on other people? What do you think of roo?

Votecount please.

I think roo is awesome and doesn't afraid of anything. We are not entirely sure what you are asking.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 26, 2015, 01:34:17 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 09:18:11 pm

So much for whatever your definition of what bay 12 might be.

[citation needed]. What do you think my definition of Bay12 mafia is, and how does quoting the same post three times disprove it?

Quote

Yes let's think it through Why would a scum want to lynch a lurker? Pray tell Deus.

Because scum don't actually care who gets lynched and it's easier to push a wagon on someone who isn't defending themselves?

Quote

You seem to be flabbergasted at the idea of player being much of a threat partly because he's already dead and the rest because you already know that he is town. Or am I mistaken?

I'm going to say yes, mostly because this sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote

It really does show how much you have read tho. Besides the fact where I talk about the very subject you bring up at least twice before iirc.

Berates someone because he doesn't think they read the thread -> doesn't bother reading up to verify his own claims.

Quote

I voted Player because he might be scum the only other alternative was osg who I had as a town read, and surprise surprise no one was very active. In fact most of the players did not take a stance. I presented an alternative to my town read.

How was the only alternative OSG? TDS had the same number of votes and you said Dorsi was a better lynch.

Quote

Hey Deus you have something there; it's your bias showing.

[citation needed]

Quote

Cherry picking things,

[citation needed]

Quote

trying to connect me to scum

[citation needed]. How exactly am I meant to be connecting you to scum unless you already know who is on the scum team?

Quote

so you'll be justified in disliking me.

Like and dislike has nothing to do with how I play. You're the one reacting personally to this interaction.

Quote

If you're gonna vote me vote me. I tire of these monkeyshines. Find some weird erratic text or look at my voting for an extension as vote worthy (yes that was a shot at Dorsi). I still have no clue what the point of all this progression leading up to this was(I assume you'll find something vote worthy eventually). I still don't see why my opinion of the meta at this site is relevant.

It's relevant because of your casual dismissal of someone else's opinion on it. Either you had your own opinion on it or you were just disagreeing in an attempt to sound superior. Your defensiveness about it points to the latter.

Quote

And I know you've given your "justification" for wanting to satiate your curiosity about what I think of bay 12 mafia. I simply said no. Feel free to keep pressing the issue because the next time around I'll definitely tell [/sarcasm].

I simply asked you about it, then asked why you were refusing to answer a question about something you appeared to be completely certain about. You've talked about it far more than me at this stage though, so I'm not sure that trying to say that I'm the one making a song and dance about it is the best card for you to play at this point.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 02:24:02 pm

hey Deus, what do you think of Dark Star?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 02:36:48 pm

I'm pretty lost by the quote war you're (Deus/Roo) having there and would benefit from a summary that addresses the other person in 3rd person. As I was starting to get into last night regarding Dorsid, I identify with roo's feelings about the gamestate even though I often disagree with their logic (in that their focus seems to be on trying to salvage the game seemingly against the odds, rather than trying to appear townie.) I'm having trouble making the leap that other people seem to be making that roo not making sense ---> roo being scum. I could be biased and wrong, but nothing I am seeing in the thread is changing my mind so far. I also don't particularly understand roo's read on Deus. As alluded to in my above question, I am having trouble reading Deus due to them only interacting with one person in the thread.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 02:44:20 pm

Like, I gather that Deus is the kind of person that enjoys logical arguments, but nothing they've posted actually seems alignment indicative to me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 04:37:13 pm

Quote from: roo on April 26, 2015, 01:02:06 pm

I think roo is awesome and doesn't afraid of anything. We are not entirely sure what you are asking.

Very funny ::)

What do you think of Tea and what are your responses to my other questions?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 26, 2015, 04:50:38 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 26, 2015, 01:34:17 pm

Quote from: roo on April 25, 2015, 09:18:11 pm

So much for whatever your definition of what bay 12 might be.

[citation needed]. What do you think my definition of Bay12 mafia is, and how does quoting the same post three times disprove it?

Quote

Yes let's think it through Why would a scum want to lynch a lurker? Pray tell Deus.

Because scum don't actually care who gets lynched and it's easier to push a wagon on someone who isn't defending themselves?

Quote

You seem to be flabbergasted at the idea of player being much of a threat partly because he's already dead and the rest because you already know that he is town. Or am I mistaken?

I'm going to say yes, mostly because this sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote

It really does show how much you have read tho. Besides the fact where I talk about the very subject you bring up at least twice before iirc.

Berates someone because he doesn't think they read the thread -> doesn't bother reading up to verify his own claims.

Quote

I voted Player because he might be scum the only other alternative was osg who I had as a town read, and surprise surprise no one was very active. In fact most of the players did not take a stance. I presented an alternative to my town read.

How was the only alternative OSG? TDS had the same number of votes and you said Dorsi was a better lynch.

Quote

Hey Deus you have something there; it's your bias showing.

[citation needed]

Quote

Cherry picking things,

[citation needed]

Quote

trying to connect me to scum

[citation needed]. How exactly am I meant to be connecting you to scum unless you already know who is on the scum team?

Quote

so you'll be justified in disliking me.

Like and dislike has nothing to do with how I play. You're the one reacting personally to this interaction.

Quote

If you're gonna vote me vote me. I tire of these monkeyshines. Find some weird erratic text or look at my voting for an extension as vote worthy (yes that was a shot at Dorsi). I still have no clue what the point of all this progression leading up to this was(I assume you'll find something vote worthy eventually). I still don't see why my opinion of the meta at this site is relevant.

It's relevant because of your casual dismissal of someone else's opinion on it. Either you had your own opinion on it or you were just disagreeing in an attempt to sound superior. Your defensiveness about it points to the latter.

Quote

And I know you've given your "justification" for wanting to satiate your curiosity about what I think of bay 12 mafia. I simply said no. Feel free to keep pressing the issue because the next time around I'll definitely tell [/sarcasm].

I simply asked you about it, then asked why you were refusing to answer a question about something you appeared to be completely certain about. You've talked about it far more than me at this stage though, so I'm not sure that trying to say that I'm the one making a song and dance about it is the best card for you to play at this point.

The game has to make sense logically. I don't understand or am going to pretend to understand where you are going with this. I assumed you wanted to eventually call me scum because of x y or z. But if you just wanna talk and not play. Then I direct you to RPGs. Who is town Deus? Who is scum?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 26, 2015, 04:55:16 pm

Quote from: TheDarkStar on April 26, 2015, 04:37:13 pm

Quote from: roo on April 26, 2015, 01:02:06 pm

I think roo is awesome and doesn't afraid of anything. We are not entirely sure what you are asking.

Very funny ::)

What do you think of Tea and what are your responses to my other questions?

I quite like Tea. Do I think they're town? I'm not sure I'm hoping they are tho. But me wanting to believe they are town is actually preventing me I don't want my bias color in gym judgement.

Who do I find scummiest right now? Deus.

As far as reads I'm fairly certain I'm doing it wrong. I have three scum reads. Dorsi, TDS, Deus. 4mask definite town. Tea most likely town.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 26, 2015, 06:21:38 pm

Roo: there were several questions in that post you just quoted. You've answered none of them, nor have you provided any sources to back up the various empty claims I've pointed out. Would you care to do so, or do you 'just wanna talk and not play'? I won't answer your question about who's town and who is scum, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, labelling people as one faction or the other just leads to confirmation bias, so I'm trying to avoid doing it. Secondly, the phrase 'money where your mouth is' seems applicable. I'm apparently the scummiest person in the thread. Why? Why is 4mask definitely town? Which of your three scum reads do you think isn't scum? Do you justify any of your thoughts, or is that just too much talk and not enough play for you?

If you want my abridged thoughts on various people, they're as follows:
Roo: Second highest post count in the thread. Normally a town indicator, but his post count is artificially inflated by the fact that he strings three or four posts together at a time. A lot of his posts also seem to be devoted to pointless posturing, and his votes and reads have no justification behind them. Reads seem to be generated via {choose random player for X. X is definitely town. choose random player for Y. Y is scummy. If a player disagrees with me, they are automatically designated as Y}. Questionable assumption that any form of interrogation means that the person asking a question wants to vote for you.
TDS: Low postcount, reasonable considering he's a replacement. Almost all of his interaction has been with either Tea or Roo, who he merged into the superbeing Rootea (ally of Rootbeer). Jokes aside, an inclination towards short posts and confusing two players hints at a disengagement from the game. Not necessarily a scum indicator, but it definitely doesn't help the town. Doesn't seem to be pushing any cases, more interested in poking holes in Tea's case on him.
Tea: Highest post count. Also seems to enjoy multi-posting. Pushing a case on TDS is a town lean for me, since scum are generally more inclined to let someone do the hard work and be second or third on the wagon. I'd be suspicious about the large number of posts he has on the subject of TDS, but he's definitely paying attention to the other players as well, so that's nice.
Origami: Is replacing out because of business, which is sad since we normally have to kill each other. In any case, an unusually (particularly for him) low postcount. For now, I'm willing to wait on his replacement (perhaps we'll even get a full rotation of subs in).
Dorsi: Interaction with multiple people is good. I'd question whether it's suspicious to anticipate the D1 extension that seems to be the default play here by voting for it early.


Tea: if you bear in mind that asking the participants of a disagreement leads to inevitable bias on both sides, my understanding of my and roo's interaction is as follows: roo disagreed with Dorsi on the Bay12 meta shortly after I replaced in. I asked roo what his understanding of it was, which he refused to answer. roo has since accused me of bias against him, cherry picking his posts, linking him to scum (he has yet to explain how he knows who the scum are or how I linked them to him) and personally disliking him. He has also refused to back up any of this with any form of substance, and is also ignoring any questions I put to him.

As for roo not making sense, I don't see that as meaning he's scum. I think he's certainly acting scummy with his question dodging, unfounded accusations and hypersensitivity to questioning, but the not making sense isn't an influence on that aside from indicating an emotional involvement, which could point to either town or scum.

I've done my best to sum up my current thoughts on TDS above, but I only got back to my house a couple of hours ago after being away since Friday, so my thoughts are likely to change after getting more than four hours of sleep.

Origami, what's the difference between anger and aggression on a forum? I appreciate that it may be a difficult one to answer, but that's the difference you've given between roo's scum meta and his town meta, so it does seem like an answer is needed.

Dorsi, since we seem to be going through replacements at a fairly good pace, how much weight do you attach to the predecessor's actions when a new player replaces in? Do you still think OSG was/is intentionally lurking?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 07:07:40 pm

He's not even addressing anything I asked though, lmao. I've asked him like 6 or 8 questions and he'll address one thing at a time by asking more questions to try to discredit "rooTea"

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 26, 2015, 07:35:01 pm

Naturally you guys post a crapton in my absence...

roo: I feel like you are a naturally agressive person, but could you tone down the antagonism a bit?  Like, you've surpassed Jim Groovester by an order of magnitude, which is an impressive feat.

I need to read up on what happened...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: roo on April 26, 2015, 07:59:11 pm

Quote from: 4maskwolf on April 26, 2015, 07:35:01 pm

Naturally you guys post a crapton in my absence...

roo: I feel like you are a naturally agressive person, but could you tone down the antagonism a bit?  Like, you've surpassed Jim Groovester by an order of magnitude, which is an impressive feat.

I need to read up on what happened...

It tried man I really tried.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 26, 2015, 10:06:43 pm

Hey roo, what did you mean by Deus

Quote

trying to connect me to scum, so you'll be justified in disliking [you]

?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 27, 2015, 12:26:58 am

As far as I can tell, the vote count is still the following. fwiw:

Quote

Vote count:
4maskwolf - (0) -
Deus Asmoth - (0) -
Dorsidwarf - (1) - roo
TheDarkStar - (1) - Tea
origamiscienceguy - (1) - 4maskwolf
roo - (2) - Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar
Tea - (0) -

I am going to bed soon but will be back in the morning before deadline. I think roo needs to claim. I think Dark Star and origamiscienceguy are more likely to flip scum than the other 2 people with votes on them, but I kinda feel like moving my vote to OSG will just result in tomorrow being a repeat of Today? So I am not sure what is best here; for now, my vote stays.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Tea on April 27, 2015, 12:37:18 am

Sorry for another post, but I don't think the one I just made, made sense. I was considering forcing the tie on OSG and roo and hoping someone would switch, but no lynch is obviously horrible and I'm not particularly confident OSG is scum. If he flips town then the conversation is probably focused on roo Tomorrow anyway. It just feels shitty that a lynch is going through on someone I'm townreading, but hopefully you guys are right.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Shakerag on April 27, 2015, 09:08:57 am

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (1) - roo
• TheDarkStar - (1) - Tea
• origamiscienceguy - (1) - 4maskwolf
• roo - (2) - Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar
• Tea - (0) -

Not voting - (2) - Deus Asmoth, origamiscienceguy

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, April 24th.  Approx. 3.5 hours from this post.

---

origamiscienceguy has requested a replacement.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 27, 2015, 11:09:30 am

Right. I'm going to vote for Roo to avoid last minute vote shenanigans.

I think I'd actually prefer TDS getting lynched for being (as far as I can tell) best case disinterested town or worst case scum trying to skate by under the radar. Confusing the person he's voting for with someone else makes me think he doesn't particularly care who gets lynched, indicating scum. I'll be hanging around until day's end in case someone else comes online, but I don't want to tie the vote with one hour left in the day as far as I can tell.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: roo on April 27, 2015, 11:42:22 am

TDS

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: roo on April 27, 2015, 11:45:39 am

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 27, 2015, 11:09:30 am

Right. I'm going to vote for Roo to avoid last minute vote shenanigans.

I think I'd actually prefer TDS getting lynched for being (as far as I can tell) best case disinterested town or worst case scum trying to skate by under the radar. Confusing the person he's voting for with someone else makes me think he doesn't particularly care who gets lynched, indicating scum. I'll be hanging around until day's end in case someone else comes online, but I don't want to tie the vote with one hour left in the day as far as I can tell.

Lol I say it here it comes out there.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Tea on April 27, 2015, 11:59:13 am

Huh?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 27, 2015, 12:01:59 pm

TDS.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - 1 replacement needed!
Post by: Shakerag on April 27, 2015, 02:03:46 pm

Tension was baking throughout the loaf today, as accusations as to who was moldy were flung about.  Finally, it was decided that TheDarkStar needed to be exiled from the loaf.  TheDarkStar tumbled into the sink, and as he lay facedown, discolored spots were visible on his back.

TheDarkStar was killed!  He was a mafia rolecop.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• TheDarkStar - (3) - Tea, roo, Deus Asmoth
• origamiscienceguy - (1) - 4maskwolf
• roo - (2) - Dorsidwarf, TheDarkStar
• Tea - (0) -

Not voting - (1) - origamiscienceguy

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

3 votes needed to extend the day
4 votes needed to shorten the day

Night will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Tuesday, April 28th.

---

origamiscienceguy has requested a replacement.

Title: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Shakerag on April 28, 2015, 09:55:58 am

Tea somehow ended up outside of the loaf overnight.  The slices were worried, but it looked like she was making her way steadily back to the loaf.  But then, a terrible noise sounded.  Metal on metal, tinkling steadily.  A shadow fell over Tea, and the slices looked on in horror as a large dog scooped her up in its mouth and trotted off.  Tea was never seen again.

Tea has been killed!  She was vanilla town.

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (0) -
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• Lord_lemonpie - (0) -
• roo - (0) -

Not voting - (5) - 4maskwolf, Deus Asmoth, Dorsidwarf, Lord_lemonpie, roo

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, May 1st.

---

Lord_lemonpie has replaced origamiscienceguy.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on April 28, 2015, 01:23:56 pm

Quote from: Deus

Origami, what's the difference between anger and aggression on a forum? I appreciate that it may be a difficult one to answer, but that's the difference you've given between roo's scum meta and his town meta, so it does seem like an answer is needed.

(I'm replacing, so my opinion on this might be different from OSG's)
Anger is an emotion. You experience it for some time, and then it usually goes away. It is often caused by someone or something else. Aggression, on the other hand, is more like a character trait. If you're born aggressive, you'll probably stay aggressive for the rest of your life. One can be aggressive without a reason other than just being themselves.

This is the only unanswered question I saw after OSG's last post. If there's any others, please ask them again.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: TheDarkStar on April 28, 2015, 06:33:43 pm

Bah. This is why you pay attention when you play mafia, folks.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 28, 2015, 06:43:39 pm

Roo, you have a whole bunch of questions from yesterday that need answers. Are you planning on getting around to them today?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: origamiscienceguy on April 28, 2015, 07:34:04 pm

Thanks Lemonpie.

I must report that all my scores were good, and I can relax a bit again. However, I think I'm going to take a break from mafia until school is done, so bye.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Tea on April 28, 2015, 08:57:11 pm

Bah! Go town!!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 28, 2015, 09:58:23 pm

@Deus no

gg wp.

I am cop. Investigated 4mask early read explains why I was so confident in them being town and used basically meh reasoning, then origami/lemon. Both turned up town. there is 1 scum left.
Either deus or Dorsi. 5 players left. We can lynch one then scum kills someone and it will be 2-1. Assuming we pick wrong.

Dorsidwarf

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 28, 2015, 10:22:26 pm

investigated 4 mask first because I was not able to read him well because of his theory posts. Then origami because I wasn't sure who would die, but I bet that they wouldn't kill the replacement. I didn't investigate Dorsi because I had him down as a scum read already.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on April 28, 2015, 11:53:56 pm

Quote from: roo on April 28, 2015, 09:58:23 pm

@Deus no

gg wp.

I am cop. Investigated 4mask early read explains why I was so confident in them being town and used basically meh reasoning, then origami/lemon. Both turned up town. there is 1 scum left.
Either deus or Dorsi. 5 players left. We can lynch one then scum kills someone and it will be 2-1. Assuming we pick wrong.

Dorsidwarf

How can we be sure you're the cop? You might be one of the mafia trying to kill the innocent Dorsi and deus, and trying to gain the support of the innocent 4mask and me to get enough votes to lynch them.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 29, 2015, 12:55:32 am

Quote from: Lord_lemonpie on April 28, 2015, 11:53:56 pm

Quote from: roo on April 28, 2015, 09:58:23 pm

@Deus no

gg wp.

I am cop. Investigated 4mask early read explains why I was so confident in them being town and used basically meh reasoning, then origami/lemon. Both turned up town. there is 1 scum left.
Either deus or Dorsi. 5 players left. We can lynch one then scum kills someone and it will be 2-1. Assuming we pick wrong.

Dorsidwarf

How can we be sure you're the cop? You might be one of the mafia trying to kill the innocent Dorsi and deus, and trying to gain the support of the innocent 4mask and me to get enough votes to lynch them.

Have you read the thread?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 29, 2015, 12:56:43 am

I ask because you have to realize there is only one scum left if someone ccs me we (town) still win.

hint: we have a mislynch.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 29, 2015, 01:22:29 am

oh I see what you're saying. What if I am scum and there is no cop.  And I am trying to get you guys to lynch. two people so I could win. Well. I'll leave that up to you gents to decide. Me being a cop tho explains my early behavior and reads.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 03:32:30 am

Roo. Answer the questions, please. Any you being you explains your early behaviour and reads.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 29, 2015, 12:18:07 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 03:32:30 am

Roo. Answer the questions, please. Any you being you explains your early behaviour and reads.

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 03:32:30 am

Roo. Answer the questions, please. Any you being you explains your early behaviour and reads.

I already said no.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 12:23:56 pm

Yuh huh. You're really instilling me with a lot of confidence about your cop claim here, what with refusing to answer questions and investigating someone you weren't scum reading. Why did you investigate Lemon instead of Dorsi or me, considering we were both scum according to you?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: roo on April 29, 2015, 12:42:00 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 12:23:56 pm

Yuh huh. You're really instilling me with a lot of confidence about your cop claim here, what with refusing to answer questions and investigating someone you weren't scum reading. Why did you investigate Lemon instead of Dorsi or me, considering we were both scum according to you?

alright not changing my vote at all.
Deus Asmoth Either you or I are gonna be lynched. I already said why.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on April 29, 2015, 12:52:24 pm

Deus Asmoth. For some odd reason I trust roo, and Deus seems to act suspicious now.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Shakerag on April 29, 2015, 02:43:05 pm

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (2) - roo, Lord_lemonpie
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• Lord_lemonpie - (0) -
• roo - (1) - Deus Asmoth

Not voting - (2) - 4maskwolf, Dorsidwarf

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, May 1st.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 04:32:03 pm

Lemon: what exactly is suspicious about me right now? The fact that I've pointed out that roo's been avoiding answering questions for nearly a full day now?

Quote from: roo on April 29, 2015, 12:42:00 pm

Quote from: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 12:23:56 pm

Yuh huh. You're really instilling me with a lot of confidence about your cop claim here, what with refusing to answer questions and investigating someone you weren't scum reading. Why did you investigate Lemon instead of Dorsi or me, considering we were both scum according to you?

alright not changing my vote at all.
Deus Asmoth Either you or I are gonna be lynched. I already said why.

No you didn't. You said you investigated Mask for 'meh reasoning' and gave no reason whatsoever for investigating Lemonpie over your top two scumpicks, aside from claiming to already know that Dorsi was mafia. And you're so confident in your theory of Dorsi being scum that you immediately OMGUS when someone doesn't believe your claim.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on April 29, 2015, 04:52:19 pm

Roo investigated OSG, who she considered acting suspicious. Keep in mind that i'm OSG.

I haven't really got a valid reason, but just a gut feeling. I think roo is right, so I've either got to choose between dorsi or you, and I chose for you. If i made a mistake, I'll regret it. If I haven't, I'll be glad. I'm willing to take the risk.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D2 - Loafing around.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on April 29, 2015, 05:38:26 pm

Lemonpie:
These are roo's most recent reads. You'll notice that myself and Dorsi are listed as scum, roo even saying that I was the scummiest person in the game.

Quote from: roo on April 26, 2015, 04:55:16 pm

As far as reads I'm fairly certain I'm doing it wrong. I have three scum reads. Dorsi, TDS, Deus. 4mask definite town. Tea most likely town.

OSG wasn't mentioned, which implies a neutral read. It makes no sense that a cop would investigate a neutral read over two scum reads with only one scum left in the game. So either roo was lying about their reads then, or they're lying about their role now, the latter being more likely.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: 4maskwolf on April 29, 2015, 08:27:30 pm

Urk sorry about that all, I've been one busy 4mask.

roo is claiming cop eh?

Well we haven't had a jailkeeper show up, so I'm inclined to believe him.

Deus Asmoth

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2015, 08:55:59 am

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (3) - roo, Lord_lemonpie, 4maskwolf
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• Lord_lemonpie - (0) -
• roo - (1) - Deus Asmoth

Not voting - (1) - Dorsidwarf

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, May 1st.

Day ends in about 3.5 hours.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2015, 01:33:36 pm

Processing end of day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - D3 - All we are is crumbs in the wind
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2015, 01:54:53 pm

And so another slice was exiled from the loaf.  As Deus Asmoth tumbled down off of the counter top and onto the floor, even the dog wouldn't go near him.  The moldy stench had lifed from the loaf at last!

Deus Asmoth has been killed!  He was a Vanilla Mafioso!

---

Vote count:

• 4maskwolf - (0) -
• Deus Asmoth - (3) - roo, Lord_lemonpie, 4maskwolf
• Dorsidwarf - (0) -
• Lord_lemonpie - (0) -
• roo - (1) - Deus Asmoth

Not voting - (1) - Dorsidwarf

Extension requests: 0
Shorten requests: 0

2 votes needed to extend the day
3 votes needed to shorten the day

Day will end @ 12:30 PM Central time (UTC - 06:00), Friday, May 1st.

---

The town has won!

Scum Moldchat:  http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/6LCXwQGUEbsBC (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/6LCXwQGUEbsBC)
Dead Stalechat: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/iS5hmh6 (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/iS5hmh6fZ87Uw)


N1:
roo investigate 4maskwolf (town)

Dani kill Persus13 - kills
TheDarkStar rolecop OSG (vanilla)


N2:
roo investigate OSG - town

DA kill Tea - kills

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on May 01, 2015, 01:57:53 pm

Good game everybody. I regret to say that I won't be in another mafia game until school is done because of AP tests and stuff.

@Roo, it is great to see your play develop to the point where people believe your claim ;D

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 01, 2015, 02:23:57 pm

Given 2 of the 3 worst lurkers were scum, I stand behind the playergamer lynch. Just got unlucky with the one we hit. :b

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Shakerag on May 01, 2015, 02:30:31 pm

It's funny because usually (especially so in beginner's games) general lurking and low activity tends to hurt the town and give scum the win.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 01, 2015, 02:40:21 pm

Dark Star's attitude in the scum QT is still super annoying to me and I'm glad I got him lynched (with the help of the last minute bus.) I'm kind of sad Dorsid just disappeared at the end as I was starting to townread him and would've liked to see if his game sense changed at the end. Also wish either IC had, like, ever posted reads? :|

I feel like my reads were okay despite everything?? Had fun arguing and working with roo

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Persus13 on May 01, 2015, 03:14:54 pm

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 02:40:21 pm

Also wish either IC had, like, ever posted reads? :|

I was dead before I was a point to do so. 4maskwolf was lurking super hard, I  was surprised by that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:17:33 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on May 01, 2015, 01:57:53 pm

Good game everybody. I regret to say that I won't be in another mafia game until school is done because of AP tests and stuff.

@Roo, it is great to see your play develop to the point where people believe your claim ;D

ayyyyye :D

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:18:21 pm

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 02:23:57 pm

Given 2 of the 3 worst lurkers were scum, I stand behind the playergamer lynch. Just got unlucky with the one we hit. :b

same :p

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:19:42 pm

gg wp. It was fun mostly cuz we won. Would have been sad if we lost. Tea mvp :p

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Persus13 on May 01, 2015, 03:21:18 pm

Quote from: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:17:33 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on May 01, 2015, 01:57:53 pm

Good game everybody. I regret to say that I won't be in another mafia game until school is done because of AP tests and stuff.

@Roo, it is great to see your play develop to the point where people believe your claim ;D

ayyyyye :D

Next time I would recommend explaining your decision to investigate OSG and answer Deus Asmoth's questions though. In a more active game and one with a jailkeeper, you might have gotten lynched for that.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Jack A T on May 01, 2015, 03:26:04 pm

Congratulations, town.

Newbies: Any thoughts on the OP?  Did you find it useful, and if so, what sections did you find useful?  What sections did you find to not be useful?  Any comments would be valuable.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:40:26 pm

Quote from: Persus13 on May 01, 2015, 03:21:18 pm

Quote from: roo on May 01, 2015, 03:17:33 pm

Quote from: origamiscienceguy on May 01, 2015, 01:57:53 pm

Good game everybody. I regret to say that I won't be in another mafia game until school is done because of AP tests and stuff.

@Roo, it is great to see your play develop to the point where people believe your claim ;D

ayyyyye :D

Next time I would recommend explaining your decision to investigate OSG and answer Deus Asmoth's questions though. In a more active game and one with a jailkeeper, you might have gotten lynched for that.

I did explain it. No clue how people are saying I didn't/haven't. And in a game with a jail
keeper I still wouldn't answer his questions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 01, 2015, 03:44:55 pm

Roo did explain that the decision was made BC he was the least likely night kill, and not accounting for the jailkeeper, it did make sense (though was a bit misguided. )Also, Deus refusing to acknowledge how Dark Star's flip had changed the game and just continuing to bitch about the questions was so silly fmpov that I can understand not answering them? So I'd be surprised if a more active game would've impacted that as I think the lack of activity is what contributed to ppl only wanting to lynch ppl with high post counts

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: roo on May 01, 2015, 04:01:37 pm

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 03:44:55 pm

Roo did explain that the decision was made BC he was the least likely night kill, and not accounting for the jailkeeper, it did make sense (though was a bit misguided. )Also, Deus refusing to acknowledge how Dark Star's flip had changed the game and just continuing to bitch about the questions was so silly fmpov that I can understand not answering them? So I'd be surprised if a more active game would've impacted that as I think the lack of activity is what contributed to ppl only wanting to lynch ppl with high post counts

Well that and because I already had 4mask as town. It really didn't matter who I investigated. If I investigated Dorsi It would have cleared them and I would have voted deus, because of my town read on osg. If I investigated Deus it would have confirmed him as scum. I investigated osg and ended up voting deus eventually anyways.

And Not answering them because It would have just given deus ammo. Eventually if a plethora of questions are asked potentially a plethora of mistakes/contradictions could be found. If anybody was truly interested in knowing the answers they would have brought it up. Not answering doesn't mean I'm incapable of answering.  That and I sort of just glazed over them. lol

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 01, 2015, 04:11:51 pm

Yeah, I agree that giving Deus more rhetorical ammo when no one else actually cared wouldn't have been good here.

Um, in response to Jack, the first post is really long? I'm not completely new to the concept of mafia and so some of the long explanations of informed minority vs uninformed majority blah blah (plus like a full page of bread writing?) made me kinda skim the ruleset and not notice a couple of important things. I like that the reasons not to no lynch thing was there. Basically I wish that the rules and setup which need to be continually referenced were easier to find compared to the other stuff that was less important.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 01, 2015, 05:03:57 pm

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 02:40:21 pm

Dark Star's attitude in the scum QT is still super annoying to me and I'm glad I got him lynched (with the help of the last minute bus.) I'm kind of sad Dorsid just disappeared at the end as I was starting to townread him and would've liked to see if his game sense changed at the end. Also wish either IC had, like, ever posted reads? :|

I feel like my reads were okay despite everything?? Had fun arguing and working with roo

Sorry for vanishing, I had external stuff going on and had to cut down internetting, and mafia just didn't make the postlist.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 01, 2015, 06:12:19 pm

Well GG. Remember, inattentive mafia-playing kills!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 01, 2015, 06:18:30 pm

I did actually consider making a post but I frankly didn't want roo to move his laser-guided random selection away from the person who wasn't me.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 01, 2015, 06:35:52 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 01, 2015, 06:18:30 pm

I did actually consider making a post but I frankly didn't want roo to move his laser-guided random selection away from the person who wasn't me.

Lmao. Did you believe the claim?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tiruin on May 02, 2015, 03:18:13 am

Quote from: TheDarkStar on May 01, 2015, 06:12:19 pm

Well GG. Remember, inattentive mafia-playing kills!

Social Loafing~ :<

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Dorsidwarf on May 02, 2015, 03:29:08 am

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 06:35:52 pm

Quote from: Dorsidwarf on May 01, 2015, 06:18:30 pm

I did actually consider making a post but I frankly didn't want roo to move his laser-guided random selection away from the person who wasn't me.

Lmao. Did you believe the claim?

Obviously, since nobody counterclaimed cop or even jailkeeper

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on May 02, 2015, 07:19:09 am

Quote from: Tea on May 01, 2015, 03:44:55 pm

Roo did explain that the decision was made BC he was the least likely night kill, and not accounting for the jailkeeper, it did make sense (though was a bit misguided. )Also, Deus refusing to acknowledge how Dark Star's flip had changed the game and just continuing to bitch about the questions was so silly fmpov that I can understand not answering them? So I'd be surprised if a more active game would've impacted that as I think the lack of activity is what contributed to ppl only wanting to lynch ppl with high post counts

Simple question. If I'd been town and roo had been scum, would you still think it would be acceptable that roo refused to answer any questions for the majority of the game?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 02, 2015, 02:41:27 pm

That's p abstract as i doubt you'd have been having the same argument in that case. Prob wasn't pro-roo's wincon to get into it with you on D3 at least. The only question I thought was important that you were asking about was the one I followed up on so idk? I thought you and Dorsid were focusing on the wrong stuff when trying to read roo (the motivation for roo not answering stuff seemed obstinate town rather than scummy, as opposed to Dark Star.)

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 02, 2015, 02:45:56 pm

I'm not sure what you meant by a acceptable though so I'm not sure I answered that sufficiently.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on May 02, 2015, 05:13:12 pm

Blankly refusing to answer questions is rarely a good thing for town or scum. Several of my questions to roo were asking him to justify a bunch of seemingly random accusations he'd made about me, and I'd have been perfectly able to use his refusal to back them up to leave my vote on him on day 2 if I hadn't gotten caught up in trying to be clever.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: 4maskwolf on May 02, 2015, 10:07:59 pm

Asmoth, where you slipped up was aggressively poking the cop claim when there were no counterclaims and no jailkeeper claims.  There was no reason to disbelieve the cop claim, so it was fairly easy to see who the scum was at that point, particularly since you voted first and he voted you afterwards.

It would have been very difficult to slip out of that situation regardless, so it's not really your fault, but yeah...

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Tea on May 04, 2015, 02:15:15 pm

Will there be another beginner game soon? I'm afraid people will like want to lynch me for my playstyle if I branch out

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia LIV: You Are Bread - Game over! Town wins!
Post by: Shakerag on May 04, 2015, 02:38:07 pm

There might be a bit of an activity lull right now until all these poor bastards still in school get done with finals. 

As far as playstyle is concerned ... I can't really speak for everyone, but my main rule for mafia, regardless of playstyle, is to have solid reasoning behind what you do.  Lynch vote on a player?  This is why I'm voting him/her.  Protected that person?  This is why.  Whether town, scum, or other just don't get caught with your pants down when someone questions you as to why you did something.