Bay 12 Games Forum
Finally... => Life Advice => Topic started by: Neonivek on May 10, 2015, 10:10:17 am
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I dunno, I've been kind of depressed for months and months now with little pockets of denial thrown in.
I havn't really been keeping very good care of myself and don't really go out all much anymore... Nor do I have anywhere to go.
I've been on antidepressants before back when I saw a psychiatrist, and not that... that is out of the question for the most part...
They would certainly help but what made me stop taking them 'early' last time was that they make me very loopy (Basically imagine a me that is very positive and always laughing and compare it to me now) so I develop mania outright.
I kind of wonder if I should go back on them... and if I chose to, how do I even get any without seeing a psychiatrist for a lengthy period of time after a lengthy period of trying to find one...
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When have you started feeling depressed? How did it start?
You say you have nowhere to go, does that mean you have nothing to do, nothing that interests you? What did you use to be interested in before all this started?
You say you develop mania outright, that can be a side-effect of anti-depressants yes, depending on the person it is being given. Have you ever talked to anyone about it? That might be due to a condition you have and if so it should be diagnosed before you take any more medications.
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I just fall into depressions for the most part but probably when all my friends abandoned me because they found better ones :P
As for Mania, yeah the Psychiatrist was well aware of it...
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I'm usually advocating for staying off meds, but, people's brain chemistry be different. I feel like I've struggled with depression my whole life but sort of fight back against it. Making a concentrated effort to change behaviors can result in feeling different. (I won't say better because the spectrum is very wide.) I'm the sort that hates finding things for myself to do so I stay busy and distracted...but there's merit to it too. Even something as mundane as getting a list of chores together and spending a good portion of the day on them can, depending on the reasons for your depression, break the cycle of thinking about feeling depressed and getting more depressed.
Or maybe you just need to shop for the right anti-depressents and/or non-pharmacological ways to affect your mood. (Lights if it's a SAD-kinda thing, sleep therapy if there's an insomnia component, etc...)
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I've been working on it for months though... I can maybe fight it off for a week or two... but then it just comes back.
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Try to speak to your doctor about the manias your treatment is causing to you.
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There are a wide variety of anti-depressant drugs out there these days, there may be one which will help you without making you manic. But really, because some of these drugs can have serious side effects, you'd be best off talking to a doctor about your options if at all possible (and depending on what country you are in, there may or may not be any legal way to obtain these drugs without seeing a doctor first).
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Well I called the doctor in spite my anxiety.
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I just fall into depressions for the most part but probably when all my friends abandoned me because they found better ones :P
As for Mania, yeah the Psychiatrist was well aware of it...
How did that go? Do you resent them for that?
And about the mania, did the Psychiatrist prescribe you anything for it? A mood stabilizer maybe?
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I was "fine" I just acted oddly towards people who knew me. I felt perfectly normal otherwise, albeit in a good mood.
And no I don't resent them. I stopped taking my anti-depressants earlier then expected because I didn't like the social anxiety of people telling me how unusual I've been acting.
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I was "fine" I just acted oddly towards people who knew me. I felt perfectly normal otherwise, albeit in a good mood.
And no I don't resent them. I stopped taking my anti-depressants earlier then expected because I didn't like the social anxiety of people telling me how unusual I've been acting.
Did you ever consider they meant it in a good way?
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No their descriptions were things like "I'd laugh at everything, even if it wasn't funny"
Which... I do normally... I just don't show anyone except on da internets.
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No their descriptions were things like "I'd laugh at everything, even if it wasn't funny"
Which... I do normally... I just don't show anyone except on da internets.
I mean, don't get me wrong. You're a pretty dour person on the forums and you've been self-described as a nitpicker.
Maybe what they're trying to say is they've never seen you that loose and carefree...able to laugh at something stupid...and maybe that's a good thing.
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I remember back when I was on Prozac, I didn't realize what being "happy" felt like. I eventually got off of them because I thought kind of the same thing, though my reasoning was more along the lines of "Hey, why am I happy? This is a false happiness!" Over time though, I recovered from my depression and now I feel much happier. Essentially as good as I felt when I was on Prozac, what I mean to say is, don't be afraid of that loopy, happy feeling. Give it another chance... and ya know if people ever tell you you're acting oddly, you should tell them to "feck off m8."
EDIT: I'd also like to state that I believe anti-depressants really aren't all too good for you. I do still think they're "false happiness", and frankly i've found that if you ever wanna REALLY be free of depression, whether you're on an anti-depressant or not, is to undergo some lifestyle changes.
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Yeah I think the major reason I should go back on it is because I am having a LOT of bouts of depressive mood swings brought on by nothing at all.
Antidepressants to my knowledge can normalize those
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Yeah I think the major reason I should go back on it is because I am having a LOT of bouts of depressive mood swings brought on by nothing at all.
Antidepressants to my knowledge can normalize those
Yes they can, and they do. Though, in addition you should really look at what's causing your depression man. I know you said that these mood swings are basically kind of random, but usually these are just a side effect of an actual depressive condition. You know yourself best of course, but it's something to consider.
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I already know why I am having these depressive episodes... some of it I can't fix at all, others I don't feel like fixing, and others I am dealing with.
The main one I need to hit right now is I need to make some friends, especially ones I can do things with.
Right now I am just working on self-fulfillment by doing something creative... But it sure is hard.
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Went to the doctor spoke for about 5 minutes... Got antidepressants... specifically...
Venlafaxine or something
So... 2 weeks it should start to kick in.
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Let us know how you're handling it.
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I am starting to get rather... paranoid 1 week in.
I keep checking my moods to make sure I am feeling alright, and even got a bit self-conscious because this was a good week (But then again... No one has ragged on me, I got a game going, I gone to the movie with a friend), as well as I've had less frequent mood swings.
I know that antidepressants don't kick in after a week. These ones specifically have a 2-4 kick in period... and that last time I was one antidepressants I didn't even notice the shift.
I am likely making excuses because I feel guilty taking anti-depressants... because well... remember the person who barged in here and basically was all "Just get over it! what do you need those things for? you know it isn't good for you"... These are all things my Father has said many times.
Though I still have mood shifts a lot and a sort of... and I still feel depressed all the time even when I am happy, like I could just break into tears.
I should just stop paying attention to my mood... but it is kind of too practiced because of all my training to combat depression normally (usually by not giving into mood swings)
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Ok so my emotions are going haywire and I am feeling anxious and energetic constantly... >_<
Apparently this is normal but if it doesn't go away I need to tell my doctor at which point I'll be put on a different medication.
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Ok my emotions balanced out. I felt normal for the first time in a while. But I somehow suspect they aren't full strength yet.
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I'm glad to hear things are stabilizing, at least. I don't have much experience with medication, but I hope things go well.
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Turns out it was just a calm xD my emotions are going insane now.
I've been having anxiety periods and depressive episodes now xD
I hope it calms down soon.
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Focus, breathe, and try to not let small stuff trip you up.
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It feels like my emotions are in a Kaleidoscope and anything and everything sets it off.
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Sorry man, I don't have any suggestions for you. Hard to know what is the meds, what is normal and what is you. Just focus, as NFO said. We are not slaves to our emotions.
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Sorry man, I don't have any suggestions for you. Hard to know what is the meds, what is normal and what is you. Just focus, as NFO said. We are not slaves to our emotions.
Yeah if it wasn't for my depression training (if you can call it that) I'd be going nuts right now... I still kind of am.
Still isn't pleasant though... I am currently having a crying fit... I'll find someone to talk to.
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At this point unless it kicks it into overdrive in 1 week it seems like I am probably going to have to go onto another drug.
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ehm this is my attempt at help. im not a psychiatrist or anything, i have never been on anti-depressants, and i havent been majorly depressed. so this is just a observation from my side, and im just a person on the internet. thats the disclamer.
throughout this thread, you talk about your emotions as something that happens TO you. like you write "i am having a crying fit" like its a inconvinence that happens to you. shouldnt you write, "i am very sad" instead? its like there is a distance between your feelings and you.
you wrote above that you are aware of why you are depressed. you said you have bunch of issues, one of them is lack of friends. but even if you state those reasons you still see yourself as depressed. i mean, if your life is shitty, are you depressed, or are you just appropriatly sad about the situation? for me thats a big difference.
i have meet people dealing with depression, and to me it always seems like they are very unforgiving against themselves. like blame that they are sad on themselves; "why arent i happy now?". this to me is that distance between the feelings and themselves i mentioned before. but i always want to say to them "you probably have a damn good reason for being sad!". why would you otherwise be it?
and i feel that discover the reason behind the sadness gives you a chance to own up to it, like saying "im sad, and thats okay".
the problem is though, that that discovery may not be easy to do. and then you kind of have to cut yourself some slack, eventhough you dont know the reason behind.
i never dealt with depression really, but i have had some anxiety attacks. and the first time it happened, it was like a lightning from clear sky. i was so suprised it happened, and i didnt take ownership of it all. it was something that happened TO me.
later, through some work, i come to realise that i had tons of reasons for those anxieties. stuff that i didnt acknowledge, and didnt deal with really. and now i rather say that "im sad, and thats okay to be" than "depression hit me" or something that makes feelings a outside thing that happens to you.
i have no idea of why you are depressed, but i think it has to do with some unacknowledged feelings. anger, shame, sadness, it can be anything really, but i think we all have to deal with are feelings sooner or later.
maybe later is better for you, so maybe antidepressants are a solution for the time being, but i think its just a lid on the box of undesired feelings, which wont go away.
so even if you do take medecin, try to search within to find what underlaying feelings there are.
im not saying that you should give in to moodswings and anxieties, but calmy look inside.
this may come of as extremly condesending, and im sorry for that. i just felt that there was a small chance i write something helpfull, and i thought it might be worth the risk of sounding patronizing and ignorant.
also, maybe there is other alternatives to anti-depressants? like changing your life, start jogging everymorning yada yada?
well good luck either way!
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There's a big difference between clinical depression (depression with a biological cause) and non-clinical depression (depression due to being sad about bad stuff happening). For the former, attempting to find an anti-depressant which helps is an appropriate treatment, and suggestions along the lines of 'suck it up' or 'try to do things to help you be happier' are unhelpful. For the latter, medication is unlikely to be an appropriate solution, and activities to reduce stress, improve self image, or just have fun, can in fact be helpful.
I'm assuming that since the OP's doctor prescribed antidepressants, that the OP suffers from clinical depression (or at least that's what his doctor believes). I also know from having several family members who have suffered from clinical depression that it can be really difficult for someone without appropriate training to tell the difference between the two, since being depressed encourages behaviors which contribute to an increase in legitimate reasons to be depressed.
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yeah well the thread is named "Should I go back on anti-depressants and how?" which implies that op isnt sure which of those two is the case. otherwise this thead would make as much sense as "should i seek medical treatment for my broken arm, or brain tumor?". i mean, op wasnt just wanting proffesional diagnoses otherwise why would he/she post here?
if we would somehow assume that the clinical depression is the case, why would there be any replies in this thread except "do what your doctor says"?
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So the anti-depressants don't really work...
So I am going back on Thursday where something will happen.
My Mother still won't tell me the full name of my psychiatrist so that I cannot get the medication that worked before (out of spite)... so I'll be on antidepressants for a while...
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Might sound odd, but I tried antidepressants off and on but never liked the 'false happiness' coming from a pill. What did get me out of my depression (and it was bad, with mania, and that was just bundled along with something worse) was a minimum-wage job with a lot of heavy lifting and exercise. For me, feeling ineffective and that I was wasting time is what really got me down in a rut. Having some co-workers to talk to and a reason to wake up every morning changed everything, and only took a few years to move on to a salary job. Now I don't know where you are in life, but the most important thing to making something of yourself is not allowing your flaws to define your life. Don't think in terms of "I can't do that, I'm depressed", or "I've wasted so much time". Try, fail, tell yourself that losing is fun, and embark again. It takes everyone some false starts. My own father, who I always thought was the archetypal company man, apparently spent most of his twenties in a trailer behind his parent's house drinking beer. You'd never be able to tell. Everyone is like that. We all screw up, but some of us dwell on it unhealthily long and others push off of it for the next attempt.
You sounded like me a few years ago, so there's my message in a bottle.
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Update:
The second batch of antidepressants are working! and has VASTLY improved by depression... like 10 fold
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Great to hear, Neonivek.
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yes, good to hear, and best of luck
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Not sure if this was discussed. More information is required.
1. can you afford it? I dont know how expensive this is and how often you have to pay to see the psychiatrist.
2. what are the side effects of the medication?
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These ones have worked excellently and so far no side-effects that I can bring out.
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I didn't get my refill in time and spent 1.5 week off my meds >_< goodness did I feel it.
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I didn't get my refill in time and spent 1.5 week off my meds >_< goodness did I feel it.
Well at least you know it works right? Good on you that you found the solution. I assume you're feeling a lot better?
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I didn't get my refill in time and spent 1.5 week off my meds >_< goodness did I feel it.
Well at least you know it works right? Good on you that you found the solution. I assume you're feeling a lot better?
Yeah it is kind of insidious because I honestly thought I was better while I was taking it... all it took me was being off it for a little while to remind me why I needed it in the first place.
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Update:
I've decided to go back Monday to get a strong prescription... absolutely vital for December.
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Cognitive behavior therapy is another way to treat clinical depression which can reportedly help even after you discontinue it. http://pro.psychcentral.com/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-versus-medications-for-depression-how-do-they-compare/005268.html#
(I should note that I don't have any relevant personal experience)
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Don't worry about "false happiness". That's a red herring. If you're suffering from clinical depression then that's down to an imbalance, which means by definition your depression is a false depression.
To answer your original question: basically you have to decide who you want to be. Are you going to be Neonivek the Depressed; can you cope with that personality or not? If not, then try Neonivek on A/D treatment A. If that doesn't work (you're too hyper for example), can that be fixed by using a lower dose? If not then treatment B. If that doesn't work/isn't fixable, then treatment C...and so on. Someone was telling me not long ago that is the choice they have to make; they don't want to be on pills for the rest of their life, but on the other hand they can't cope with being depressed, so the meds are the lesser of two evils.
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Got them but they are ridiculously expensive... I might have to go on disability just to afford them.
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Some drugs (specially atypical antipsychotics such as seroquel, olanzapine) can be effing expensive, however your usual brick and mortar drugs for bipolar disorder (having mania with medication can almost seal the diagnosis) such as lithium, valproic acid and carbamazepine are very cheap.
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Got them but they are ridiculously expensive... I might have to go on disability just to afford them.
That won't help. My depression ended when I got a job. I can't imagine where I'd have guttered out if I fell into my navel far enough for disability.
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Mmmm my stronger dose had unfortunate side effects. (severe sleepiness, headaches, irritability, trouble sleeping)
So I'll be going back to my typical one.
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What drugs and which dosages are you in if I may ask?
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Let me see
50mg of Pristiq AKA: Desvenlafaxine
2mg of Ambilify AKA: Aripiprazole
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That is an expensive combo... ???
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So I started to have severe anxiety problems after being triggered by a fight
I didn't know why... Checked side effects
YEP! having a severe reaction to my anti-depressants.
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Antidepressants in general (SSRIs, SNRIs and such) cause both an increase in anxiety as you phase in the treatment, but in long term (after 2-4 weeks) they tend to improve anxiety. The side effect lists normally don't mention these subtleties, and if you consulted an american website I believe they probably are more interested in ways you can sue the pharma or your doctor...
So the solution might be raising the dosage.
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Two more weeks of tons of side effects before we decide if I stay on it.
>_< this is taking longer then I thought.
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Which ones specifically; I might know how to work around them.
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Pristiq and abilify
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I meant the side effects.
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•choking or trouble swallowing;
•dizziness, drowsiness, or weakness;
•constipation, mild stomach upset;
•headache, anxiety;
•sleep problems (insomnia); or.
•weight gain
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A large side effects profile, you seem quite sensitive. Some of them tend to disappear after a while but others might persist and make the treatment difficult. Trouble swallowing might be due to dry mouth i suppose, having a glass of water alongside meals helps. General drowzyness can be a side effect or a symptom of depression. The psychiatric mantra of frequent re-evaluations and adjustment still holds true, it's a long road ahead sadly. :(
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Out of curiosity, had you trialled venlafaxine (Efexor) prior to desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)?
Wyeth (now owned by Pfizer) released desvenlafaxine shortly after their patent expired on velafaxine, and is in essence the same medication, as venlafaxine is converted by your liver enzymes into desvenlafaxine. There's currently no data comparing the two, and while there's a small amount of difference depending on your personal enzyme profile, ultimately it's expected that clinical response to the two would be the same.
The biggest reason I ask is that venlafaxine, because it's no longer on patent, is now incredibly cheap compared to desvenlafaxine, which is still exclusive to Pfizer. If you're looking to save money on your meds, this particular option might be a good one to discuss with your treating psychiatrist.
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Venlafaxine is a cheaper alternative to desvenlafaxine with similar (if not more studied efficacy) and from my experience so far only weak anedoctal evidence of a milder side effects profile. Sadly for the dual antidepressants class (norepinephrine and serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SNRI) such as venlafaxine, desvenlafaxine and duloxetine side effects are a tricky business. Efexor is jokingly called SideEfexor due to its tolerance profile, they are also notorious for having discontinuation syndrome, the ideal management is a slow taper in or out. (I've been on duloxetine personally, stopping it was one week of struggling with horrendous dizzyness and pain)
However again I must state I don't have neon's complete history to make any guesses or stronger advice on which drugs might be more appropriate. There's a school of thought in management of bipolar disorder (which I happen to follow) that considers treating bipolar depression with dual antidepressants or their older counterparts, tricyclics, an effort comparable to smothering a fire with paper towels. The particular combo of serotonin and norepinephrine seems to be a destabilizing agent in those patients leading to both mania and the very dangerous mixed episodes. Yet bipolar disorder is an extremely complex illness and you always encounter patients that benefit greatly from these drugs. Sadly we don't have any reliable means to discover that save from testing the drugs.
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Yeah, short of genetic screening processes becoming far more selective and specific, it's impossible to predict the exact pharmacological imbalance responsible for the depressive phase. Plus, even should that come to pass, it would be a short-sighted clinician who relies purely on pharmacotherapy alone for management of depression. It's a far more complex condition than simple brain chemistry, encompassing a variety of factors like social and physical stressors, with the need for a multimodal approach to properly address. Medications are just one of the supports that hold the entire structure together, and if you throw the entire weight of treatment on that one area, it's going to collapse eventually. Similarly, using a treatment ineffectively will do just as much harm.
It's amusing to boot up my copy of the latest update to the Australian Therapeutic Guidelines and take a refresher look at the treatment protocols for bipolar depression. It specifically calls out SNRIs as well as any other antidepressants with noradrenergic activity (or MAOIs, god forbid you ever have to go there) as more likely to provoke a rapid manic cycling pattern than SSRIs, but of course they're still first line treatment due to their efficacy. It's an ugly truth that we simply don't have sufficient tools to adequately tailor treatment to the individual short of trial and error.
I'm actually surprised to see you list aripiprazole as your doctor's choice of prophylactic therapy. Around here, the absolute most common prophylactic would be quetiapine, followed closely by olanzapine. I definitely wouldn't be second guessing your treating specialist, just expressing my own observations based on my own clinical experience.
One last question: Have you talked about the cost of the medicines you take with your pharmacist? If there's one health professional that knows every last method of squeezing down the cost of prescriptions, it would the them.
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I personally almost never treat bipolar disorder without at least one classical mood stabilizer. Lithium, valproic acid, carbamazepine (as tricky as it is to manage) or lamotrigine. Of course monotherapy quetiapine has excellent results however. Big problem in my country is people affording it.