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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Topic started by: AceSV on September 26, 2015, 08:52:25 pm

Title: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 26, 2015, 08:52:25 pm
So I was trying to think of some interesting woods to compliment my collect of magical metals, cultural weapons and anthro people.  I found a lot, but I'm interested in additional ideas. 

http://www.wood-database.com/  Too many, I can't even

Valuable Woods:
http://www.mostexpensivelist.com/top-10-most-expensive-wood-in-the-world/
Highlights include ebony, African blackwood, which is like ebony, pink ivory, which is bright pink, purple heart, aka peltogyne which is purple, and bocote, which has a cool yellow and black stripy pattern. 

There are apparently various kinds of multi-colored ebony, such as dalmatian ebony, tiger ebony and pale moon ebony. 

http://www.exoticwood.biz/woodchart.htm
There are a lot of red colored woods on the chart, plus two blue-grey woods, blue mahoe and buckeye burl.

Boxwood is a valuable white wood, counterpart to ebony.  American holly (ilex opaca) is amazingly white, it looks amazing. 

Apparently the most valuable wood is calamander/coromandel wood which is now extinct.  It has an attractive stripey pattern. 



Hard Woods:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test
A list of woods based on their janka hardness rating. 

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/top-ten-hardest-woods/
More detail of 10 of them.  Highlights of the two include lignum vitae, quebracho, which comes from "quebrar hacho" axe-breaker, snakewood, which looks cool, and African blackwood again from the valuable wood list. 

Lignum Vitae vs axe:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSMfEmMUs4 
Lignum Vitae bokken (sword) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFnsvAq028 

Note that hard materials are not necessarily good weapons or armor, as they are prone to break instead of bend of dent.  There is an entire class of woods known as ironwoods (softwoods<hardwoods<ironwoods) which are between woods like oak and woods like lignum vitae, that might have more ideal weapon-like properties.  Not sure I want to try and actually translate ironwood properties into DF material properties.  As far as I know and I haven't dug too deep, ironwoods are more common in tropical climates and rare in temperate climates, and of course are difficult to work, thus they were relatively unknown in medieval Eurasia. 



Fantasy Woods:
There are a couple of myths of true iron wood trees whose branches are made of iron.  I could either make them out of real metallic iron, or give irontree wood the same material properties as iron, which means it couldn't be turned into steel. 

I remember an Indian legend about a place where the trees' roots dig deep and leach up valuable metals and gems in their environment, giving them characteristics like golden bark or gemstone fruits.  Also easy enough to do, but maybe a bit overpowered. 

I feel like there should be more, but most tree myths have nothing to do with their material properties. 
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: CulixCupric on September 26, 2015, 09:05:24 pm
You would be giving ELVES the ability to GROW IRON WEAPONS AND ARMOR. Druids in DnD and pathfinder can't wear metal armor, just as elves don't have [METAL_PREF], but can use ironwood armor, and if that was ironwood, then elves would be even worse with IRONWOOD ARMOR BOWS AND ARROWS. this may increase your !fun! if you choose to do that. I am not saying this is a bad idea, just pointing out an implication.

EDIT: you gave me an idea... a reaction for elves to turn wood into ironwood... thank you!
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 27, 2015, 12:07:44 am
Yea, most trees of myth I've seen in media are massive "world-trees" or stuff like that. Too large to be made in Dwarf Fortress.

I find that savage or evil plants are easier to think of though. Organ-like trees, with eyes or hearts for fruit, grotesque stuff like that. Maybe some legends of sapient treant-like trees were caused by the menacing appearance of these evil-aligned trees. Maybe an Assassin-Vine/Gallows Tree/Hangman Tree is just a tree that often overgrows with large vine-like growths, giving them a disturbing appearance; even more so if a creature were to become entangled within the vines and expire as a result. Not that such a thing is possible in-game. Yet. Maybe the somewhat infamously silly Wolf-In-Sheep's-Clothing happens to just be a tree that grows fruits in the shape of animals.

Trees formed of a mass of ice in the most savage tundras and glaciers, or ones of crystal in deep subterranean caves.
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Bogus on September 27, 2015, 05:40:46 am
if you want elves to use harder wood preferentially tho you have to remove the regular wood from their weapons, and give them extra reactions to make weapons of that material.
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 27, 2015, 06:56:36 am
Quote from: Bogus on September 27, 2015, 05:40:46 am
if you want elves to use harder wood preferentially tho you have to remove the regular wood from their weapons, and give them extra reactions to make weapons of that material.

Actually, I don't care about elves, but I've got a lot of reactions in Furry Fortress to make weapons out of wood, things like staffs, flails, spears, bokken, etc.  I use a custom reaction so that they will be considered genuine weapons and not training weapons, but because of this, they are not brought in caravans or appear in adventure mode.  I would be much interested to know how to code my reactions to show up in AI controlled weapons, especially if new woods make them more viable. 

Some good ideas from BlackFlyme I can think about.  Also, the living trees remind me of an old European misconception that cotton came from sheep trees.  I forget the exact myth.  In any case, a fiber producing tree would also spice up the game.  Apparently this sort of happens in real life. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 27, 2015, 07:24:53 am
I just realized that http://www.wood-database.com/ has material property values for the more common types of wood.  If someone knows where to plug in which value for Putnam's Material Helper (https://putnam3145.github.io/helper), that would make things really easy. 

Here is White Oak (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/white-oak/), which I would love to compare to the current material properties for wood
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

African Ebony (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/gaboon-ebony/):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lignum Vitae (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/lignum-vitae/):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Bamboo (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/monocots/bamboo/):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Alfrodo on September 27, 2015, 10:54:49 am
How about the Princess Tree? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia_tomentosa)

They grow insanely fast, flower nicely, have useless fruits, and are invasive.

Not valuable, I just like this tree.

 EDIT  (http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/paulownia/)
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2015, 04:25:45 pm
Elastic modulus almost surely refers to young's modulus; the material helper has a rule-of-thumb for poisson's ratio for woods IIRC, so you could use that if info is not available; modulus of rupture can be considered tensile strength, AFAIK; crushing strength is definitely compressive strength.
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 27, 2015, 07:57:07 pm
These seem kind of zany

White Oak
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(African) Ebony
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lignum Vitae
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Also, the real price of lignum vitae is through the roof.  I decided to just make the rare woods as valuable as silver/porcelain/crystal glass. 
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2015, 08:43:24 pm
what in the world is causing such a low bulk modulus
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 27, 2015, 09:28:57 pm
Quote from: Putnam on September 27, 2015, 08:43:24 pm
what in the world is causing such a low bulk modulus

I left it blank and used the fill-in button.  maybe I should have used a generic wood example instead. 
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2015, 09:33:07 pm
Yeah, looks like it should be somewhere around 9 GPa... hmm
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on September 27, 2015, 10:12:16 pm
I saw that Matweb does oak:  http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet.aspx?matguid=44cdf6b01d004baaa7e9510575891dc3

Any illumination there?
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Putnam on September 27, 2015, 10:28:18 pm
okay, in general i will say that dwarf fortress is not built for wood or, indeed, any non-isotropic materials

tensile strength is tensile fracture,, compressive yield is pretty self-explanatory, shear strength should be shear fracture, flexural modulus... i would just put into young's modulus, poisson i would set to 0.3
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on November 27, 2015, 07:21:26 pm
I might revisit this soon.  I'm looking at varnish, paint and lacquer as ways of decorating wood, similar to glazing, to increase the value and relevance of wood.  I'll probably use woodworking or glazing as the skill involved.  I'm not super familiar with these processes and would appreciate some knowledge if anyone else knows about woodworking. 

I guess varnish is just applying oil to the surface of the wood.  It looks like linseed oil is used, which exists in DF.  I would guess rock nut oil is probably also valid. 

Period appropriate paint would be tempera, egg based paint.  I've researched this before and basically raw eggs are mixed with pigment and smeared on the medium.  Milk may also be a valid medium.  I would probably use the existing dyes as pigments for simplicity, but historically, I think minerals like cinnabar and cobalt were used.  Oil painting is also a possibility, which seems to be a combination of oil and pigment instead of egg.  Again, linseed and rock nut are strong candidates.  Rock can also take paint, and probably ceramics and bone and other materials, so painting can stand as its own industry. 

And then there's lacquer.  I guess they collected the toxic sap from Lacquer Trees (looks like the active ingredient is urushiol, the same thing found in poison ivy), treated it, added dye and smeared it over the wood.  Later laquerers could apply enough lacquer to make a layer they could carve designs into.  Charcoal was added to make black lacquer, cinnabar for red lacquer, and some used gold and silver dust in the lacquer.  I thought shellac from the lac bug was related to lacquer, but I guess it's actually more like varnish. 
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Max™ on November 28, 2015, 09:32:32 pm
Hadn't seen this thread before but last time I had seen the only bokken which that youtube guy hadn't broken was the kingfisher "appalachian hickory", which is actually just shagbark/shellbark/bitternut hickory as I understand it. Awesome wood, not the hardest at all, but the right balance of properties for something you want to whack other things with.
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: AceSV on December 14, 2015, 04:38:12 pm
I've tried doing White Oak with some of the MatLab info:

Code: [Select]
[IMPACT_YIELD:358050]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:50000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:3978]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:358050]
[COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:50000]
[COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:3978] bulk modulus 9 GPa
[TENSILE_YIELD:102300]
[TENSILE_FRACTURE:540000]
[TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:842] young's modulus 12.15 GPa
[TORSION_YIELD:102300]
[TORSION_FRACTURE:11000]
[TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:2046]
[SHEAR_YIELD:102300]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:11000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:2046] shear modulus 5 GPa
[BENDING_YIELD:102300]
[BENDING_FRACTURE:50000]
[BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:842]

I've been curious looking at this again, does the Janka Hardness translate to anything in the DF material properties?

Found an interesting list while doing this, i'm going to post it here so I can remember:  http://www.woodworkweb.com/woodwork-topics/wood/146-wood-strengths.html
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: Putnam on December 14, 2015, 11:35:05 pm
dwarf fortress doesn't actually have support for wood materials, in any meaningful way

there is correlation between janka hardness and tensile strength, but the only paper on that is $40
Title: Re: Wood
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 17, 2015, 05:27:18 pm
You can do some fun things with seasonal growths if you have the patience.  I made some giant mushrooms that change color every week, month or season, letting you determine the precise week in the year by looking at the caverns, kind of like a clock garden.