My findings:
# Goblins are carnivorous. This I did not know. They will starve to death rather than eat vegetables. This is causing serious problems, because I have practically no source of meat. When I worked this out I trapped some groundhogs to breed, but this is hardly an ideal solution because the pups take a while to grow up, and grown groundhogs give a measly 2 meat when slaughtered. Goblins do, however, eat bones, and not just when they're starving, either. I haven't yet worked out if this actually provides nourishment for them, or if it's just something they do for a lark. If the former, that'll help with food issues a lot, but it will make it difficult to provide bone bolts.
# Dwarves are pansies. Goblins are hardcore. When they see a kobold thief, they don't run away like cowardly dwarves, they charge it en masse and kick the hell out of it.
# When you have a nicely dug out fortress to hide in, kobold archer bands are not a problem. When your only defence is your not-yet completed obsidian block wall, you may be in trouble. 3 goblins got shot to death, the rest of the population got conscripted, and charged and beat the kobolds to death barehanded.
# Bringing two proficient masons means you can put block walls up pretty quickly.
# Elves will trade with goblins. Who knew?
And yes, eating bones will provide them with nourishment. However, this extra food has a price, as they may choke to death on one.
I tried setting up domesticated animals for goblins, but it never worked out. I wanted to add the ability to bring and breed trolls (and give them that special dog training tag so I could have war trolls) for defence and pets, and giant rats for a source of meat.
However, for a quick fix, just give them the creature tags the other humanoids have so they can bring along muskoxen. Those seem slightly more goblin-ish than horses or cows.
EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing. Goblins drink water. They will not drink booze, even if you had any.
[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing. Goblins drink water. They will not drink booze, even if you had any.[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]</STRONG>
There is no fresh water on my map (salt water area). The goblins are drinking whip wine just fine. Maybe they just hate dwarven booze? :)
By the way, you can bring trolls, it just depends on whether or not the goblin civilization your guys come from have access to them. Best of all, they cost a grand total of one point :(
[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Furious Fish ]
Whatever the case, throw out those icky whip vines! Get some good, goblin rat weed! Sewer brew is so much more appropriate than whip wine.
Or perhaps swamp root, or bloated tubers! If you're on an evil map, you absolutely have to have some gutter cruor (forget the exact name of the plant, but it's also used to make black dye, an essential for any goblin fort).
This is fun, and I'm not even playing it! Don't you love those personality profiles the goblins have?
EDIT: I think you have to edit the troll profile in order for them to breed. Otherwise, they won't reproduce, and you'll have the number you first brought along. I don't know if you can buy more from the traders, though...
And you can just select the same civ to come from so you get trolls. Doesn't matter where you are on the map, you can manually select which one you want.
[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]
Seems reasonable, but I hope it's not the case.
I'm gonna have to say goblins -> kobolds. Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. Heck, even my forum name is in goblintongue.
EDIT: Not to say I don't like kobolds, mind you. They were some of my favorite critters in the later D&D games, until they turned into those weird lizard-thingies.
I love kobolds, it's just that I love goblins more.
[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]
Speaking of which, what would we do with the children, provided any snatchers are successful? Train them at the kennels into war dwarves? Their bites are certainly strong enough.
And what of the loot kobolds bring back? They can't wear any of the stuff... What would they pick up that might actually be useful?
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Whatever the case, throw out those icky whip vines! Get some good, goblin rat weed! Sewer brew is so much more appropriate than whip wine.Or perhaps swamp root, or bloated tubers! If you're on an evil map, you absolutely have to have some gutter cruor (forget the exact name of the plant, but it's also used to make black dye, an essential for any goblin fort).[ January 29, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]</STRONG>
Yeah, I was planning to use just muck root (that's what makes Swamp Whiskey, right?) but you can't farm that, just wild strawberries, prickle berries, whip vines, and longland grass, IIRC. The rest you have to gather from herb bushes, which I can't be bothered with. I have to admit the thought of goblins drinking wine is a little odd ;) Maybe I'll find a chasm, and milk purring maggots to make cheese.
Oh god. French goblins. What have I done?
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>We can always hope...
Speaking of which, what would we do with the children, provided any snatchers are successful? Train them at the kennels into war dwarves? Their bites are certainly strong enough.</STRONG>
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>And what of the loot kobolds bring back? They can't wear any of the stuff... What would they pick up that might actually be useful?</STRONG>
And the sentient comment brought something to mind... You need to remove the [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD] tag from other races! That way, after an attack, you could chop up the corpses for extra goodies!
An what do you mean you can't farm muck roots? I've had thriving farms with rat weed and bloated tubers, you just need to grab the first sample from the wilderness, the rest you can farm.
Another interesting thought: Who launches sieges against goblins? Other goblins?
By the way, does anyone know if animals still breed when in chains? I know they won't in cages, but if chains work that would make things a lot more convenient for my mass slaughterhouse.
As for the butchering, I'm not really sure what all they'll eat or not eat. I have no idea if a dwarf will eat the meat of another dwarf, but I'm pretty sure you can't butcher the live ones without using the dwarf companion.
You can try sticking animals in chains. See if it works for you.
A stoneworker was unhappy, so he sought out the leader (a Very Strong, Very Agile Clerk) and yelled at him. The leader got an unhappy thought from being yelled at, threw a tantrum, and beat the stoneworker to death.
Now THAT'S management.
Whoa! Can someone give a link to how to set up your own goblin fortress?
At least I think that's what he's using, I don't know if he's tweaked anything else.
quote:
Originally posted by Helmaroc:
<STRONG>Let's be prepared for Armok to come and say kobolds are better than everything else.</STRONG>
Why wait for armok? Kobolds own everything. Ever. AT ALL.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Kagus:
We can always hope...
Speaking of which, what would we do with the children, provided any snatchers are successful? Train them at the kennels into war dwarves? Their bites are certainly strong enough.
Roast them alive! stew them in a pot! fry them, boil them, eat them hot! till beards blaze and eyes glaze, skin cracks and bones black...
etc etc.
That's what real goblins do with dwarves.
Sliver barbs! That's what those evil little plants are called... Gutter cruor and black dye for everyone!
They only grow in evil environments, by the way. You'll still want to grow other things though, because gutter cruor is about as foul a drink as sewer brew and swamp whiskey. Tuber beer is slightly less abrasive to the tongue.
But then again, these are goblins we're talking here...
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>I say we capture a breeding pair, and then start preparing them with a variety of recipes. Cooking at home is easier than having to order out for each and every one.</STRONG>
Oh my GOD, I so have to see if this is possible. The idea of having my entire fortress fed on a diet of babies is too awesome not to try.
quote:
Originally posted by Furious Fish:
<STRONG># Elves will trade with goblins. Who knew?</STRONG>
[ January 30, 2008: Message edited by: Eruonen ]
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>They will most likely eat seafood. Anything that bleeds, essentially.
An what do you mean you can't farm muck roots? I've had thriving farms with rat weed and bloated tubers, you just need to grab the first sample from the wilderness, the rest you can farm.</STRONG>
How do you farm bloated tubers and muck roots? They don't have seeds or spawn.
What mod do you use?
If they die, one less mouth to feed, if they succeed they start bringing in somewhat large amounts of food until they get hurt. If I got good food stores I make them off duty crossbow military to train up in the archery range before I send them off hunting. It also helps to have traders bring every hunk of meat they have access to.
quote:
Originally posted by Furious Fish:
<STRONG>...so my off-duty goblins...</STRONG>
That's so going to end badly.
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpios:
<STRONG>That's so going to end badly.</STRONG>
Yet strangley hilarious!
quote:
Originally posted by Gigalith:
<STRONG>Interesting. Now I really want a goblin fort. Do sieges happen, and if so what species comes?</STRONG>
I don't know yet. I get goblin traders instead of dwarves, and haven't seen a single dwarf or human yet. Elves have come to trade, and are getting pretty pissed off with me stealing most of their stuff (it's very satisfying stealing their "pets" and butchering them for meat), so hopefully they will come in force soon.
My walls and moat are completed, and I have a drawbridge (although there's no lever linked to it at the moment. must get around to that soon). One building inside the castle is finished, a large two-storey obsidian food store & dining hall (with butchers' shops and chained groundhogs underground). Magma smelters & forge are running nicely a little deeper underground, but unfortunately the only metal I've found so far is copper. Current architectural project is putting towers on the four corners, and walkable fortified battlements all the way around, so that when I have a good force of marksgoblins I'll be able to keep siegers at bay with ease.
Food is still a huge problem, I've run out of meat again and a lot of goblins are hungry. Goblin traders should be coming soon, and I have hunters patrolling for wild horses, so I should just about squeak by, but about five goblins starved to death last year and I think more will this year.
The funny thing about playing as goblins is it's a lot easier to not get attached to them, compared to dwarves. If I were facing the prospect of a dozen dwarves starving I'd feel bad, but these? Meh, they're only goblins. Die in service, for the glory of Witchwalls!
Speaking of which, a large immigrant wave has just arrived, and my population is far too high for me to feed. The volcano god demands sacrifice.
Me and metal chao worked a lot of this out. Much is posted, and there are some pre-modded downloadable raws to play with.
I added one plant for goblins for them to brew (it's still inedible) and let them take trolls, beak dogs and giant guinea pigs with them. you might want to increase the guinea pig lifespan though.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/alexquayle/witchwalls1.jpg)
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-2014-witchwalls
For the starting sleeping/eating/other necessity areas I'd have little underground pockets dug into the dirt, with one stairway or ramp connecting it to the surface. It seemed appropriate, somehow.
However, I'd probably just give up long before I'd even completed the second floor of the thing. That kind of patience is a little beyond me at the moment.
Looks nice, hope you get a sustainable source of meat set up soon.
I wonder... Do cooked meals count as meat? If they require even just one meat ingredient, you might be able to "trick" the goblins into eating some veggies by lumping everything together. This might help out your food stocks.
However, you probably don't get access to food long enough to make anything out of it before it's gobbled up by the goblins.
quote:
Originally posted by Kagus:
<STRONG>Huh, not quite what I was expecting. I was thinking more along the lines of Sauron's tower in the LoTR series (Barad Dur? I don't remember), a giant obsidian tower that housed everything.</STRONG>
[ January 31, 2008: Message edited by: Quintin Stone ]
I'm kinda worried if you could cook plants and make them edible by carnivores but I never got around to testing despite plenty of opportunity.
dwarf two-"cookie made something special tonight! Beer and fat roast!" *vomit*
dwarf one-"um, you just threw it up.....why are you eating that? and while I'm asking questions how the hell did he make a roast out of fat and beer???"
dwarf two-"cookie used ALL the beer to make it, so we are otherwise out of booze." *vomit* " you want some?"
dwarf one-"..." *grabs bowl* "yeah... I hate this place" *vomit*
quote:
Originally posted by Dasqoot:
<STRONG>That's amazing quintin. WOW :eek: Is that a goblin fort by any chance?</STRONG>
That's one hell of a tower mate, you must have insane patience.
Or a macro.
and witchfalls doesnt really strike my as goblinesque, I would go for something with a more primitive feel, housing along the edges of a chasm maybe. like an inverted tower, going downwards instead of up, and with rooms on the outside looking in instead of the opposite (duh..)
In the basement you'll find stockpiles and most workshops (to keep the noise away from the residences). The noble rooms are also underground, to allow engraving.
I also only had three wooden logs, and my other barrels were stuffed full of turtles (get extra food from the bones, yet another reason to go turtle). I had to dig out some rock, build a still and a carpenter's workshop (after taking down the previous ones, which were made out of aforementioned logs), and start making barrels and booze.
Well, the first barrel suffered from lack of micromanagement and got stuffed full of useless hide roots. The second barrel fell prey to a bug, and refused to be stuffed full of anything. But the third barrel was juuust right.
So I had seven goblins all clamoring or the same barrel. Two goblins died of thirst, a miner and my very much needed goblins sniper (crossbow). The reason he was very much needed was because I happened to settle on a place that had not one, but two chasms (so far). One serpentine and one pit. I had a tiny bit of space on my side of the chasm, and promptly decided to only dig out a hallway on that side and slap everything else on the far side.
Right over the heads of a family of inquisitive ratmen.
I had to station the crossgoblin there to fire down at them whenever one decided to poke its head out, or else nothing would get done dut to cancellations. But then he died, and I needed to conscript someone else.
Anyways, things have stabilized somewhat. There are several deceased batmen at the bottom of the chasm with bolts stuck in them, and there's a ratman who wanders around in his little hole passing out from time to time due to the iron bolt that's currently stuck in his arm. I even got a wave of completely useless migrants (lye maker, weaponsmith, siege operator, three peasants...) who were sent to work doing menial jobs.
I didn't want the ratmen to bother me anymore, and the angle my goblins were firing from wasn't that great. So I built a couple bridges out to see if maybve they could hit 'em from there. No luck.
Since there were two bridges, I figured I'd just remove the one that was connected to my main bridge, and have the other collapse (it was far enough away not to suck anybody in).
Well, guess which end of the bridge my highly skilled mason/architect decided to deconstruct it from? Yep, he stood on the second bridge, and removed his support, tumbling into the chasm below.
But hey, I'm not complaining. I've got a fresh new batch of mason recruits, and I didin't lose a single goblin to my controlled cave-in. Not even the imbecile miner who dug out the last space from the wrong side, and got trapped on the platform.
There's even a perfectly shaped doomtower overlooking my front entrance! Since it's part of the cliff, it goes up several levels with all manner of bloodletting potential! It's even got the right spacing inside of it to allow for catapults to be centered comfortably inside.
Pity trolls don't breed though. I should have fixed up the stuff in the goblin mod before starting up.
quote:
Originally posted by Quintin Stone:
<STRONG>
How about Isengard?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2207/2230023078_05730810d8_o.jpg)[ January 31, 2008: Message edited by: Quintin Stone ]</STRONG>
isn't that tower called Orthanc? [/Nerd]
EDIT: I've just had a birth in my fortress! The giggling goblin girl "Nguslu Nusnakaspuz"
How delightful! Now, let me get my goblin dictionary to find out what that means...
...
"Terror Odorincests".
[ February 02, 2008: Message edited by: Kagus ]