Hey, welcome back! I'm fine with inexperienced players here. It's a simple setup, as they go. Throwing you on the list.Cool! Hopefully, my vote won't lose town the game. :P
Osg is scum calling it now.
Revarie: You seem to be a returning veteran, but I have never played with you. Just to let you know, roo will never answer anything, and he always gets lynched day one because of it.That sounds an awful lot like you're hinging on him getting lynched day one. Would that further your goals, origamiscienceguy?
Osg is scum calling it now.
I have missed you so. PTW.
TempAcc: This is your first mafia game on the forum. Is this very different from setups you've played before?
TempAcc: I think I've seen you around this subforum at some point, but I can't remember. Care to fill me in?This is me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3abPnEEGE). Essentialy just a regular general discussion goer that rarely gets into forum games. Generally looked with suspicion on this forum due to a combination of a) being a lawyer, b) not being an atheist, c) not being a leftie and d) Tim Curry.
Alright, before we get started properly, I should point out that we should be careful just tossing around votes in case we do accidentally pile three onto one person and hammer them by accident.
-End Public Service Announcement-
A bit weird since I've never played a vengeful game, but otherwise simpler. I played werewolf before, but we had more people and there were regular day and night cycles.This game should be pretty short, so if you're looking to get into mafia again this is a good way to warm up :P
Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?My willingness to question OSG? TempAcc, you're going to have to elaborate. Why wouldn't I question him? We don't have any common game history, just off the top of my head. Nor have I drawn any attention to myself in the hour or two since the game started, but cute conjecture and a gold star for trying.
This sort of thought process is a mistake. Even in this small a game. In fact votes are the most relevant thing here as it is highly likely both scum might be on the same wagon. Scum know what they are doing. Everyone here can count. Saying oops didn't see the votes is highly suspect. Not announcing -1 is also noteworthy. I don't think being "safe" is a good strategy. Getting people to react is much superior. Like last game right osg you were the mod in that ome correct? Or am I thinking of another.I would agree with you, except this is RVS and the hammer threshold is so low. I could have clarified that, but it's serviceable as a general word of caution anyway.
Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?My willingness to question OSG? TempAcc, you're going to have to elaborate. Why wouldn't I question him? We don't have any common game history, just off the top of my head. Nor have I drawn any attention to myself in the hour or two since the game started, but cute conjecture and a gold star for trying.
(And to answer your last question, I've been here since 2009 and have played mafia since 2011.)
Nope. Just stating the facts. Look at any game roo has been in. (There are a few where he doesn't get lynched day 1, but the not answering questions I think is 100% correct.)Revarie: You seem to be a returning veteran, but I have never played with you. Just to let you know, roo will never answer anything, and he always gets lynched day one because of it.That sounds an awful lot like you're hinging on him getting lynched day one. Would that further your goals, origamiscienceguy?
OSG oh my I think my prediction is correct tho. Your op makes no sense lol. What the hell is temp gonna tell you other than what he has already said?roo: Temp did answer with more information right here:
And I answer things that merit a response. If I don't answer anything why are you asking me things? Rather than do someting productive. Your whole post is just wordy and pings me a lot.
It is not anything partaining to the game, but it is getting conversations started, unlike you, who have still yet to answer my question. And, by the way, your prediction is wrong. I am town.TempAcc: I think I've seen you around this subforum at some point, but I can't remember. Care to fill me in?This is me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3abPnEEGE). Essentialy just a regular general discussion goer that rarely gets into forum games. Generally looked with suspicion on this forum due to a combination of a) being a lawyer, b) not being an atheist, c) not being a leftie and d) Tim Curry.
OSG you scum brah?Nope.
OrigamiScienceGuy: I have a faint memory of seeing you in the "play with your friends" subsection of the ~other games~ forum. Did you ever take part in dominions 3/4 matches?I have been in that section, but I haven't played that particular game. Perhaps you participated in one of my "You can't die" interactive storytelling games.
ElephantParade: What kind of mafia have you played? Have you played Forum Mafia?I played a few games of mafia on this forum, a couple of years ago. I made it to the last day (as Mafia) in one of them; in two others, I was nightkilled N1, and the last one died.
UnvoteUnvote. Yeah, that would be bad. I will instead vote Reverie, the other R-possessing player, because I feel that consistency is important in RVS.
roo
don't want an accidental hammer.
I rest my case about the hammer thing.It was a joke, pretty much; I've been reading a lot of old Bay12 mafia games, and you show up in them as Flandre. The actual question was whether that was actually worth posting, basically.
Also, could you reword your question, Elephant Parade? In case you were just asking why I mentioned my mafia history on the forum, it was to answer TempAcc.
I rest my case about the hammer thing.It was a joke, pretty much; I've been reading a lot of old Bay12 mafia games, and you show up in them as Flandre. The actual question was whether that was actually worth posting, basically.
Also, could you reword your question, Elephant Parade? In case you were just asking why I mentioned my mafia history on the forum, it was to answer TempAcc.
Elephant Parade: What do you think of RVS? Do you suppose important things can reliably be gleaned from it, or do you see it as an awkward stumble into the 'proper' game?Not very often, but I've seen some interesting stuff pop up in it. And, even if it is an awkward stumble, the game needs to start somewhere, right?
It is not anything partaining to the game, but it is getting conversations started, unlike you, who have still yet to answer my question. And, by the way, your prediction is wrong. I am town.
Furthermore, I feel like we have had this conversation everygame osg. You yourself admit temps answer does nothing for anybody. Yes all questions and answers are content. It does not mean it is good or decent content. In fact it is just down right poor.In RVS, all content is good; questions get people posting. Yes, some questions are better than others, but occasionally, you just can't think of a good question; and that's not the end of the world.
Why? The question: Care to fill me in? Is a bad question that generates bad content. No matter what temps alignment he will answer it truthfully. The answer is basically set in stone. There is zero reason for temp to lie. Now consider mine: Why did you vote player x? Is an okay question that will generate ok content. The honest response from scum a scum player would be: because I want him to be mislynched; however, that will not likely happen. The question increases the chances that a scum player might lie and be caught. Do you disagree?
I prefer not to encourage empty questions. And focus on good ones as scum might not be able to cope with someone dialing it up to 10 instead of just getting slowly acclimated to the game.
TempAcc: I almost forgot to ask you a question! How does it feel to be almost-forgotten?
roo: Temp did answer with more information right here:It is not anything partaining to the game, but it is getting conversations started, unlike you, who have still yet to answer my question. And, by the way, your prediction is wrong. I am town.TempAcc: I think I've seen you around this subforum at some point, but I can't remember. Care to fill me in?This is me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3abPnEEGE). Essentialy just a regular general discussion goer that rarely gets into forum games. Generally looked with suspicion on this forum due to a combination of a) being a lawyer, b) not being an atheist, c) not being a leftie and d) Tim Curry.
After weighing this a bit, I'm going to have to say no, I smell a backpedal here. It's subtle, but it's there. A nervous kneejerk reaction to simply being the first to regard TempAcc (besides yourself, that is, who I might add also asks him a question) and lightly suggesting that questioning him was a mistake? While you just did so? And this is just a few posts into the game. Crazy.Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?My willingness to question OSG? TempAcc, you're going to have to elaborate. Why wouldn't I question him? We don't have any common game history, just off the top of my head. Nor have I drawn any attention to myself in the hour or two since the game started, but cute conjecture and a gold star for trying.
(And to answer your last question, I've been here since 2009 and have played mafia since 2011.)
I'm alawyerthief, I can smell this stuff from a mile away, which is why I'm not making your mistakes and am keeping an eye on Roo.
No one is asking anyone to deliver more than they canThat is literally what you are doing. You are saying "I don't like your question, make a better one >:(".
I might rub people the wrong way, but that is a far lesser evil than letting everybody fuck around for 7-10 pages and start back up again the next day.I mean, if people spend all day arguing about you, that's not a good thing.
At the end of your post elephant you basically agree with me. How can you get lynch worthy reactions from "care to fill me in?".You can't. You can, however, get a response that allows you to ask another question, which might allow you to ask another question, and so on until things do matter.
Also I don't remember playing with you.You haven't, but I read games I find interesting as they go on, or after they end. I've never played with you, but I've read at least three games that you were in, and you acted as I described in all of them.
I am saying that I already said why I am voting you. Because you seem to be under the impression that I have not explained myself.
Which games did you read?I don't actually remember! They didn't really stick in my mind, honestly—or not enough for me to remember the playerlist, at least.
And do you think you can tell my alignment right now?Not yet. I think you're being a bit aggressive, but you're always aggressive, so I'm not sure if that means anything. Also, we've mostly been arguing Mafia meta; fun as it is, it's only a step away from RVS. Actually, it pretty much is RVS.
roo: Temp did answer with more information right here:In short, I would like you to answer questions. Here's another one: Suppose you are a vanila mafioso. If your Godfather was about to be lynched, would you suddenly act really scummy to save them?It is not anything partaining to the game, but it is getting conversations started, unlike you, who have still yet to answer my question. And, by the way, your prediction is wrong. I am town.TempAcc: I think I've seen you around this subforum at some point, but I can't remember. Care to fill me in?This is me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3abPnEEGE). Essentialy just a regular general discussion goer that rarely gets into forum games. Generally looked with suspicion on this forum due to a combination of a) being a lawyer, b) not being an atheist, c) not being a leftie and d) Tim Curry.
My point being that elephant said he didn't want to talk about meta, but that is all he had talked about as he left shortly after that I thought it was noteworthy.Actually, I enjoy talking about meta! I was just saying that it isn't a very useful scumhunting tool; it's on par with RVS, or perhaps even worse. Still, any discussion is good discussion!
I am supposing I am a vanilla mafioso. If my godfather was about to be lynched. That would be because I am probably the one bussing him.This is actually the wrong answer. If your scumbuddy were the godfather and on the noose, the game would be over, and you would lose.
Seems awfuly strange you're willing to spare Roo and immediately paint him as a townie over something so trivial. Seems... Almost suspicious. Your implying of a connection between me and OSG is also quite tenuous, but it is to be expected, since its the first day. However, so many tenuous assumptions thrown against different people so early can be quite telling, specially if you have something to gain from it.Nice OMGUS, but you fail to explain yourself. Also, don't think I didn't notice your potential bus against OSG with something weak like a 'possible red herring' as if that actually meant anything or was worth mentioning except as showmanship. You're just digging this hole yourself.
Situation has changed.
Unvoting Roo.
Reverie just became extra suspicious.
OSG's behavior with Roo may be a red herring, which warrants suspicion.
Elephant Parade gets more suspicious due to being declared a null read on Reverie's opinions.
roo has been in quite a lot of games, but he is known to not read the OP sometimes. So It could still be either one.
Bit of an energetic response over a vote change, two posts even, which means I may have pierced the truth a little more then expected.Yes, because typing out an afterthought post in lieu of editing my first post (which is illegal in mafia) is 'energetic'.
Thanks for the energetic explanation on mafia terminology, though, all of which seemed very convenient to mention and use as a means to try (and fail) to further paint me as scum, a very scummy tactic in itself. I'll remind you again that you attacked me first, and even then my initial semi random vote on Roo happened, which only changed when you made yourself even more suspicious.Painting you as scum? No, TempAcc, you've been dodgy and I'm bringing attention to it. It's simple, and how the game is played. It's called scumhunting.
The fact you then made a thinly veiled defensive move in his benefit in the very first day and now just mentioned the ~bus~ also does seem very convenient, as a way of showcasing "look, this is what scum does" while doing the exact opposite for a player as meager diversion tactic, only highlighting your scummy colours. Even now you remain his caring guardian, a Toriel to his Frisk, but a Flowey to everyone else.I gave an actual reason (read: not a 'potential red herring') for why I thought roo was town. The logic I gave is mostly sound, and while I agree that it's not guaranteed that he isn't just being dumb about reading the OP (now that I know this might be a thing for him), I only posited that he leaned town. For all I know, he could do something scummy later, but for right now you are the one being dodgy.
Situation has not changed.Likewise.
Situation has not changed.And it likely won't, unless you ask questions!
Its been easier to gain enough day 1 info just by watching people interact with each other, really, I have no reason to ask specific questions atm because I've read into a few people I've found scummy already unless you're willing to share your feelings on Tim Curry or Mastechef? :vThere is no such thing as "enough day 1 info", especially not in a game that can, in the worst scenario, last a single day. This is pretty much the definition of lurking.
Elephant Parade: Considering this is shorter then most mafia games, don't you think its more likely for scummies to take a more active role in misleading townies right at the start?I'm not sure. Thinking about it, it'd be a high-risk/high-reward thing to do; a single mislynch could cost town the game, but, with such a small scumteam, things would be pretty bad for them if town caught on. Some players might, but I don't think most would.
Respondimh to prodI was hoping for more than that. Any thoughts on the game so far?
Ebwop who we are comfortable lynching. Does that make more sense?We're barely out of RVS, so it's not wise to think about dropping the hammer yet. Remember, we can take as long as we'd like, and more material is always useful. Are you comfortable which a lynch right now?
I look back and keep seeing elephant and temp not doing anything.
@elephant have you played in a vengefull before?
Actually, we really do need to stir discussion.Town hunting is probably better here than in other games because if a townie is lynched, knowing who NOT to vengekill is as good as knowing who to vengekill.
Everyone: How effective do you think it would be to town-hunt in a small game such as this one?
@elephant have you played in a vengefull before?No.
~Sorry, I was busy, late fridays and weekends are busy days for me cause girlfriend reasons :vIt's unusual, to be sure, but it's basically working out who isn't scum as a supplement to typical play. Since our game runs team sizes roughly half-and-half, it could be useful, though not nearly as much as a complicated setup with role abilities. The glaring downside to pure-conjecture town-hunting is how prone it could be to WIFOM (the wine-in-front-of-me argument, which can best be explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0). Some examples of this certainly includes my town-leaning read on roo, which could go either of three ways:
Pls also explain town hunting shenaningas
I am comfortable lynching between the three I already mentioned. Discussing who to lynch isnt a bad thing at all as we can ser where peoples heads are.Just like that? Flip a coin and lynch an active lurker? No, roo, you have to do better than that. Don't be lazy.
Gun to your head osg who would you lynch?
@elephant can you link a past game?Sure. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133901.150)
I am comfortable lynching between the three I already mentioned. Discussing who to lynch isnt a bad thing at all as we can ser where peoples heads are.Gun to my head? Do you mean who would I vengekill?
Gun to your head osg who would you lynch?
I just generally don't like roo because he normally refuses to answer questions. However, I find him quite a lot better in this game, which is why I unvoted him. In the one game I ran, he was scum and he told me that he han't read the OP. The scumchat link is here (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/4z4MnEPF3xM65) Maybe it depends on how many players. But I happen to like roo the way he's playing right nowAfter reading through the game a second time I had somehow missed the part in bold and originally thought he was a townie in this game. Not sure how that happened, especially with the link, but I now retract the 'roo is maybe town' thing. What a waste of keystrokes :/
roo has been in quite a lot of games, but he is known to not read the OP sometimes. So It could still be either one....it's actually more likely that this is the post I read and I skipped over the other one.
I am comfortable lynching between the three I already mentioned. Discussing who to lynch isnt a bad thing at all as we can ser where peoples heads are.Just like that? Flip a coin and lynch an active lurker? No, roo, you have to do better than that. Don't be lazy.
Gun to your head osg who would you lynch?
Who would you lynch right now. Or who would you call scum right now. Better way to put it.I wouldn't lynch anybody right now. I don't have enough information about anybody. (Sory, I was confused. You said gun to my head, so I assumed you meant I was being lynched: who would I vengekill.)
Reverie: slight scum. Noticing a bit of tunneling on Temp Acc, and something about you just irks me. Not enough to warrent a vote yet.I beat myself up for thinking people might find me peculiar in general, so irking people might be par for the course :-)
Reverie: Remains scummy to me, the whole ~lol temp u backpedal arguebargle~ thing seemed suspicious at the start when I didn't even suspect her, and from then the scum suspicion has increased. OSG picked it up too, which can mean one of two things->Why would it matter if you suspected me or not when I confronted you? The 'lol temp u backpedal arguebargle' thing was for catching some deflection from harmlessly RVS questioning OSG when you said:
I'm a lawyerthief, I can smell this stuff from a mile away, which is why I'm not making your mistakes and am keeping an eye on Roo....where the bolded part (my supposed mistake) alludes to my
willingness to question OSG...when just before this you did so yourself.
OrigamiScienceGuy: I have a faint memory of seeing you in the "play with your friends" subsection of the ~other games~ forum. Did you ever take part in dominions 3/4 matches?Follow that up with your OMGUS when I place some pressure on that, and this is my impression of you in a nutshell. Dodgy.
Reverie just became extra suspicious.
OSG's behavior with Roo may be a red herring, which warrants suspicion.
OSG also did mention how she was kinda "tunelling" me, which maaay indicate they're on different teams, meaning I'm either getting a lucky shot on a mafia member or serving as cannon fodder to a mafia plot in which OSG is involved.At this point, you may as well put on a blindfold, sit in a chair and spin a bit, and pull the trigger.
TL;DR: I didn't suspect reverie all along, I became suspicious after her reaction to my vote on you, and changed my vote to her when she seemingly only reinforced this outlook.
I'm a lawyerthief, I can smell this stuff from a mile away, which is why I'm not making your mistakes and am keeping an eye on Roo....and not because I caught roo failing the how-does-scum-work exam? That's the basis for your vote? Can you see how weak this is?
@Reverie:At the time of the initial post, I was mostly joking and part roleplaying it out (which is something common in every mafia game I played, mind you, and which I'm kinda still doing since I assume this is just what people do :v). There was no special reason for me to claim you made mistakes at the time, altough I guess it did serve as a convenient excuse for you to use against me.
Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?
Wait. You think I asserted that I thought Roo was town because of this...I'm a lawyerthief, I can smell this stuff from a mile away, which is why I'm not making your mistakes and am keeping an eye on Roo....and not because I caught roo failing the how-does-scum-work exam? That's the basis for your vote? Can you see how weak this is?
I don't think this is a case of my humour detector not working, the below post reads flat as a pancake to me.Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?
(...)
Even now you remain his caring guardian, a Toriel to his Frisk, but a Flowey to everyone else.
Uh.. Not really? I mentioned it more then once (thrice, actualy) already that, at that point, I was basically throwing random stuff around to catch on people's reactions, and that I became suspicious of you due to your posts after that :vMy posts after that concerning you literally just consisted of bringing attention to the fact that you've OMGUS'd me for reasons I've already stated, and bringing attention to the weaksauce 'red herring' comment that still means nothing. This doesn't include the back-and-forth quipping we've partaken in since.
I have played with roo enough that stuff like not reading the OP are just things he does. However, I have noticed that when he is scum, he tends to withdaw from the game after RVS. Something to look out for.Okay, so would you consider it a point in his favour that he simply stays in the game against his typical behaviour? (Heh, that rhymes!)
Random votes are a passing fancy for nonsensical reasons imo.Is this why you have a penchant for not answering RVS questions? Or don't like playing by RVS etiquette in the first place? I am speaking, of course, about the comment OSG made nearer to the start of the game:
Revarie: You seem to be a returning veteran, but I have never played with you. Just to let you know, roo will never answer anything, and he always gets lynched day one because of it.
roo
You are getting mighty close to hammeing someone. Wouldn't want your scum buddy to "accidently" pull the trigger.
In general, vengeful games should not have a lynch without a clear consensus of the majority.
All I have seen is snide remarks and a non statement about status quo.Status quo is what is going to save town's ass. How much should it be emphasised that a hammer at this point could be disastrous?
You just put a second vote on someone. 3 votes is to hammer. That means that all it would take is one vote from a scum to end this day prematurely. Assuming tempacc is town, his vengekill would prrobably go on the hammerer, but we would have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, the scum would live on to day 2, and town would not have learned anything. So I was voting you because getting someone close to a hammer is not a town action to do.
That actually is basically what happened in Vengeful mafia 9. It worked out pretty good.
Well, it does seem I have even l less reason now to back off my initial theory. At least I get to shoot down people I'm pretty sure are scum if I get hammered :v, unless either Roo or Reverie is a really misled townie.I got home three minutes ago.
Wait.
...Actualy, hasn't elephant parade been exceptionaly quiet today? I mean, I got called out for ~lurking~ during a quite a similar timeframe, so what gives?
I'm willing to do that.If faux-voting is a full replacement for regular voting, it should be in green so we can still FoS. Remember, you only get one vote at a time!
Unvote
roo
But let's do it in blue since that is the color most typically used.
So tl;dr basically I don't believe temps account.This is pretty shady. I mean, pressure voting and all, but you shouldn't put somebody at -1 in a hammer-based game without a really good reason. You were clearly aware that it was -1, too, since you mentioned it in your post.
He said that his vote was random and nonsensical but has a "abstract" reason. But it is totally random.
The abstract reason was seeing how reverie would react or act.
Originally I thought the vote was random then it was revealed that it wasn't. I thought oh okay it was a reaction test of sorts. But it was revealed by temp that it wasn't a reaction test and holds to his stance that it was random. It's just a lot of spin.
tempacc
That is -1 btw
Roo, by saying "1 more until hammer" but not doing anything to stop someone from hammeing, it makes you look eager to see the lynch happening. Almost like you wanted somebody to do the hammer, but either they weren't around or they thought of the consequences.Uh, if roo wanted to say "hey, scumbuddy, lynch this dude", wouldn't he have used their scumchat? Unless you're saying that he was trying to tempt a townie into lynching, which is possible, I guess, though I can't see it working.
I put forward the motion that we discuss organising a hammer once we reach three faux votes on a player. All in favour?Agreed. I think that the discussion should last at least 24 hours, though, since people are likely going to be more casual with "fake" votes than real ones.
That's a really interesting argument, though I'm not sure I agree; whether it's a good argument is of secondary importance to the argument's honesty, though. I can see this being an honest attempt to stir up activity, especially since the last couple of days have been slow.You just put a second vote on someone. 3 votes is to hammer. That means that all it would take is one vote from a scum to end this day prematurely. Assuming tempacc is town, his vengekill would prrobably go on the hammerer, but we would have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, the scum would live on to day 2, and town would not have learned anything. So I was voting you because getting someone close to a hammer is not a town action to do.
I am fully aware of how many people it takes to hammer somebody osg. I said -1. As in it takes one more person to hammer.
My supposedly non-town action is not deferring to forum culture on how a game should be played. What do you wanna talk about osg? Do you disagree with rev and me? If so why? You haven't said anything. Even here you say "Assuming temp is town". Wtf? You are a fucking omnishambles right now and have zero clue about what is going on. And you want to dictate how I play and when I can vote?
Was my vote not optimal? If so why not? Does my vote not achieve discussion pressure and having the hammer be absolutely certain of their choice? Putting someone at -2 pushes the game forward vastly.
Don't talk to me about voting for supposedly attempting to end the day prematurely. Back to this in a bit. That vote was terrible. Now how did you know it would end the day and not the game?
Unvote.You make an argument and vote for TempAcc, then counter said argument in the same post and leave the vote on? Especially considering this is vote #3, you're going to have to explain.
TempAcc: You could have at least checked my profile page, and maybe my recent posts. Had you done so, you would have found that I haven't been active today, except maybe in the early morning. The fact that you didn't tells me that you're less interested in finding scum, and more interested in diverting attention.
It's also possible that you were just lazy, of course, but you really should have checked. It's one click to see if I'm online, and another few to see if I've been posting.
Fake-edit: Looking through the recent posts again, I found that you couldn't have been trying to divert any attention—unless roo's your scumbuddy, and I notice that you haven't commented on the L-1 post, despite being the one at L-1—since the attention wasn't on you in the first place. I guess it's more likely that you were just being lazy, then.
And I thought Elephant Parade unvoted? Unless I'm confused about something, which is likely. If he didn't, then I'm forced to admit Rev has a point :vNo, he released his real vote on OSG and faux-voted you.
Roo, by saying "1 more until hammer" but not doing anything to stop someone from hammeing, it makes you look eager to see the lynch happening. Almost like you wanted somebody to do the hammer, but either they weren't around or they thought of the consequences.
You make an argument and vote for TempAcc, then counter said argument in the same post and leave the vote on? Especially considering this is vote #3, you're going to have to explain.Wait, was that vote #3? I thought it wasn't, or I would've thrown in a "no, I don't want to hammer" message; I find him more suspicious than anyone else, but not enough to lynch, yet.
I didn't answer directly to Roo's L-1'ing of me since it happened to fit exactly into my initial theory (Roo/Rev being scum), there was nothing else to comment on it apart from the post prior to this one.Yeah, I faux-voted you. It wasn't intended as a faux-hammer, though.
And I thought Elephant Parade unvoted? Unless I'm confused about something, which is likely. If he didn't, then I'm forced to admit Rev has a point :v
I didn't care to do it :v, and it seemed interesting on how eager other people would be willing to use this as an opportunity to prod you, even if unwarranted. Didn't quite work, but they're prodding you anyway, so, profit?
Calling someone out for wishing to gain more reads through any method is kind of hilarious for a townie, but a convenient way to throw townies who can't see through that kind of hilarious tactic against others.What are you talking about? I'm not berating you for how you obtain reads at all, I'm insinuating that you are thinking in line with how scum would concerning questioning people unprovoked. You say you find it interesting that I question Elephant Parade on his unusually limp vote. Why?
My vote is still unchanged, specially now that you've jumped at such little things as strawmen and ~pretending to scumhunt~ to try as hard as possible to snipe me, which is of course very convenient for you and your partner in dweebery :vAnd yes, do remind me for the second time that you are still voting for me, as if you've actually been meaningfully interacting with anyone else all game outside of being prodded at. Why not question roo directly? If you're certain he is my scumbuddy, why have you not pressured him? All the interaction you've had with him since RVS was to awkwardly respond to one question. All the interaction you've had with me was to insist that what I'm doing fits into your roo/Reverie scumteam theory nicely.
I think we should discuss a bit more. Sorry, I've been busy making up school work. What are the main arguments on TempAcc? I am town, so I know that at least 1 scum is voting for temp acc, so forgive my hesitation.Up until the faux-voting thing, I was pressuring him on his OMGUS in response to my vote, in which I argued against his strange notion that questioning you (as opposed to roo) in RVS was a mistake:
You'll probably notice that the question itself (which is pretty strange) sounded fairly serious, but his tone abruptly changed to a joking one when I got suspicious and that is the basis for my backpedal argument. Obviously this is pretty tenuous (like most leads just out of RVS), but I decided to push it further because he stuck to his guns in suggesting that I shouldn't focus on you, despite him already having asked you a question already, and that was enough for the OMGUS.Reverie: Not sure if your willingness to question OSG is veteran scars showing up or a not so veiled attempt to shift attention from yourself. When did you join the forums, though?My willingness to question OSG? TempAcc, you're going to have to elaborate. Why wouldn't I question him? We don't have any common game history, just off the top of my head. Nor have I drawn any attention to myself in the hour or two since the game started, but cute conjecture and a gold star for trying.
(And to answer your last question, I've been here since 2009 and have played mafia since 2011.)
I'm alawyerthief, I can smell this stuff from a mile away, which is why I'm not making your mistakes and am keeping an eye on Roo.
OSG's behavior with Roo may be a red herring, which warrants suspicion....which is a meaningless statement. I still think that this was a poor attempt to placate me by shoving you away, but whether you are his scumbuddy has always been up in the air. I could only see TempAcc wanting me off of his back.
Well not like what I say matters. I will eagerly await for osg and elephant to post their thoughts on temp.Actually, contrary to this statement, your voice carries a lot of weight. Assuming you're a townie, what you say matters a whole bunch, because there's only three of us.
Revarie, are you confident enough that TempAcc is scum that even if he said he is going to vengekill you, you would still vote him?That's a complicated matter I've been turning over in my head, and I'm glad you brought it up.
TempAcc did mention that he was looking at other vengekill candidates, but while that sounds nice I can't discount that this might be misdirection—especially since he seems to latch onto the notion that I'm scum so dearly.The reasoning for this is wrong actually, since if he were scum and meant to misdirect us he wouldn't have a vengekill, but the potential for misdirection is still there.
Revarie, are you confident enough that TempAcc is scum that even if he said he is going to vengekill you, you would still vote him?
TempAcc did mention that he was looking at other vengekill candidates, but while that sounds nice I can't discount that this might be misdirection—especially since he seems to latch onto the notion that I'm scum so dearly.The original meaning could have been rephrased
TempAcc did mention that he was looking at other vengekill candidates, but while that sounds nice I can't discount that this might be misdirection—especially since I've been his only clear target up until now.I should probably not play so much when I'm tipsy, the fuzzy-headedness is probably contagious.
My vote is still unchanged, specially now that you've jumped at such little things as strawmen and ~pretending to scumhunt~ to try as hard as possible to snipe me, which is of course very convenient for you and your partner in dweebery :vPeople are calling you out because you're not doing enough. Do you really think that passive play is a better way to build reads than active play? Let me tell you: it's (for me, at least) not. And even if it is for you, you're not helping other people build their reads. If you're a townie in a game with a mere four other players—two of them scum!—you really need to be a team player, or town has pretty much no chance of getting anything done.
Mind you, your argument actualy only further enforces my theories yet again. A townie doesn't know who anyone might be, so Its completely natural for me to suspect everyone, and thus prod anyone and cause people to have arguments to gain reads on people, something scum doesn't have to do nearly as much, since they already have knowledge on at least another player. Calling someone out for wishing to gain more reads through any method is kind of hilarious for a townie, but a convenient way to throw townies who can't see through that kind of hilarious tactic against others.
Revarie makes good points about temp, but I do not want to vote for temp, or officially kill him because I know that a scum is voting for him. Which cannot be good.Could you expand on this? I assume that the "scum" is roo, since you've interacted with them the most, but I might have missed something. Also, two other things:
*origamiscienceguy - (0)
*roo - (0)
*Elephant Parade - (0)
*Reverie - TempAcc (1)
*TempAcc - (0)
Not voting: Reverie, origamiscienceguy, roo, Elephant Parade
3 to hammer.
If I am voting somebody and 2 others, I cannot know if there is scum voting or not. For all I know, it could be all three townies voting. But I know that at least one scum is voting for tempacc right now.Whoops, I forgot you weren't voting TempAcc when I asked >___>
If I am voting somebody and 2 others, I cannot know if there is scum voting or not. For all I know, it could be all three townies voting. But I know that at least one scum is voting for tempacc right now.
Its not worth to ~bus~ someone at this stage, IMO, even in a game as small as this one. Managing to get to day 2 with both scumbuddies intact gives a huge advantage, too big of an advantage to throw away.
Obviously, bussing the godfather is out of the question. But bussing the other mafia is an option if it truly looks hopless for them. However, tempacc is definately not a hopeless case, so I think that he is town and 2 scum are voting for him.
Its not worth to ~bus~ someone at this stage, IMO, even in a game as small as this one. Managing to get to day 2 with both scumbuddies intact gives a huge advantage, too big of an advantage to throw away.I'll agree that scum pulling a D1 gambit is indeed probably superfluous, since this game seems stacked against town as it is.
Elephant Parade: Town. Good questions and observant.Unless your views on Elephant Parade have changed since your reads list, you're wrong somewhere. What do you think of Elephant Parade now?
Scum can have good arguments as well. Just because I agree with something doesn't mean that they are guarenteed town. I think that it is most likely that two of you three are scum, but that means nothing to you since to you, I could very well be scum trying to protect my scumbuddy. This is really only information for me.Well, yes. Obviously we're speaking in hypotheticals here, but it's useful to see where people's heads are. Stuff like this is the bread and butter of D2 and onwards.
Votecount:*origamiscienceguy - (0)
*roo - (0)
*Elephant Parade - (0)
*Reverie - TempAcc (1)
*TempAcc - (0)
Not voting: Reverie, origamiscienceguy, roo, Elephant Parade
3 to hammer.
Something has come up and I probably won't be able to get on the internet all day Saturday. I'll be back on Sunday though.If by this you mean you'll be gone from now until Sunday, I'm fine with waiting until you get back to hear your response. No rush.
I really didn't want to play Mafia when I got home, and... I didn't want to play Mafia for the rest of the day, either! Sorry about that.I still don't really want to play Mafia, but I promised a post, so here it is!
I'll try to make a post not long after I get up, which will be ~10 hours from now.
@rev are you convinced that temp is scum?Barring any outstanding arguments out of him (he hasn't posted more than two sentences in the past 48 hours), I think I am. It's hard to have too much conviction when being wrong could be costly in the worst way, but there we go. I do want him to weigh in though. If he's town, lurking is the worst thing he can do.
ElephantParade: Why do you not feel like playing mafia?Because I'm getting tired of it? Perhaps you're accustomed to playing for a week with no true breaks, but I'm not.
Waiting for rev to answer.
@rev is there anything he might say that might change your mind?I'm not unreasonable. I doubt he'll change my mind, but it can happen.
I've become a very convenient target,
Roll to dodge. It is an entire sub forum to itself. I do notice that roo has been mostly following revarie and seems to be going with the flow. I agree with temp acc that roo seems to be just lynching the most convienient taget.
Temp acc: I'm not going to lie, your play day one was pretty scummy, but because of the position I'm in, voting for you is not an option
I've become a very convenient target,
I've become a very convenient target, and me being such has actualy only served to reveal some odd behavior on the part of other players, which, in turn, have backpedalled around a fair bit since and did some really fake questioning of one another to try and pull attention away from themselves + partner in scummyness.You're going to have to elaborate. Are you saying that not tunnelling you is as damning as tunnelling you? I'll agree that I've pressured you in the beginning at the expense of other gainful activity, but none of my questioning of other players has been fake.
In their efforts, they've managed to convice 1 player that I'm scum, for a reason or another. However, the can't outright snipe me without trying to paint someone else as scum, since this is a vengeful game and they're quite aware that I'm probably going to kill one of them if I get lynched. My opinions haven't changed thus far.Okay, I'll humour you...mostly so we can flesh out the alternative.
That is so shitty of you. Why are you lying about what temp actually said?TempAcc did say he was a convenient target. Bolded and underlined here:
Sorry, I got carried away reading an RTD while multitasking :v
Anyway, my defense is basically this: I've made myself (unwillingly) an easy target during the start of the game, which led to me getting targetted and tunneled upon by multiple people for reasons I said were (and still are) tenuous or even trivial, which however haven't been questioned by other two players, with only OSG actualy calling it out. I've become a very convenient target, and me being such has actualy only served to reveal some odd behavior on the part of other players, which, in turn, have backpedalled around a fair bit since and did some really fake questioning of one another to try and pull attention away from themselves + partner in scummyness.
In their efforts, they've managed to convice 1 player that I'm scum, for a reason or another. However, the can't outright snipe me without trying to paint someone else as scum, since this is a vengeful game and they're quite aware that I'm probably going to kill one of them if I get lynched. My opinions haven't changed thus far.
The only one thus far who seems to have a shade of townie to him is OSG, which means one of two things. He's either a really good mafia member who knows I'm townie and is thus trying to cause me to shoot one of the two other townies, or an actual townie who ended up comming to the same conclusions as I have.
I have no reasons to change my vote as of now, altough Roo and Elephant Parade seem increasingly scummy to me, but haven't given me as many red flags as Reverie has.
Sorry, I got carried away reading an RTD while multitasking :vTenuous? Trivial? Your "playstyle" is incredibly passive, which is traditionally considered a scumtell. I don't know if whatever else people were bugging you about was trivial, but that isn't.
Anyway, my defense is basically this: I've made myself (unwillingly) an easy target during the start of the game, which led to me getting targetted and tunneled upon by multiple people for reasons I said were (and still are) tenuous or even trivial,
which however haven't been questioned by other two players, with only OSG actualy calling it out. I've become a very convenient target, and me being such has actualy only served to reveal some odd behavior on the part of other players, which, in turn, have backpedalled around a fair bit since and did some really fake questioning of one another to try and pull attention away from themselves + partner in scummyness.It hasn't been questioned because it's a legitimate accusation! Have you been paying no attention to the arguments against you? Also, unless I missed something, OSG's argument wasn't that the arguments against you were trivial.
In their efforts, they've managed to convice 1 player that I'm scum, for a reason or another.You're being pretty dismissive of, y'know, the fact that people have legitimate cases against you. If you're going to say "but not asking people questions is my playstyle", you need to find a better playstyle. You had a chance to do that the instant people started bugging you about it, which was (IIRC) early on.
However, the can't outright snipe me without trying to paint someone else as scum, since this is a vengeful game and they're quite aware that I'm probably going to kill one of them if I get lynched. My opinions haven't changed thus far.I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. A quickhammer? If you're worried about quickhammers, why haven't you adopted the faux-vote system, which you still refuse to comment on?
The only one thus far who seems to have a shade of townie to him is OSG, which means one of two things. He's either a really good mafia member who knows I'm townie and is thus trying to cause me to shoot one of the two other townies, or an actual townie who ended up coming to the same conclusions as I have."the only person not scum is the person defending me"
I have no reasons to change my vote as of now, altough Roo and Elephant Parade seem increasingly scummy to me, but haven't given me as many red flags as Reverie has.I find it kind of funny that you have scumreads on all three people voting for you, but I admit that it could just be a coincidence. That seems pretty unlikely when combined with the fact that you have a townread on the only person defending you, though!
Votecount:*origamiscienceguy - (0)
*roo - (0)
*Elephant Parade - (0)
*Reverie - TempAcc (1)
*TempAcc - (0)
Not voting: Reverie, origamiscienceguy, roo, Elephant Parade
3 to hammer.
I wonder what the longest day of mafia is on this forum. We could go for a record. I can understand why you guys are annoyed at Temp acc, but I just don't have the option of voting him. If you three agree that we need to move on, then I really can't stop you, but I think that we need a responce from temp acc about stuff. If that doesn't happen, then I guess he leaves us with no choice.I'm not going to vote him before he responds to my post, unless he disappears entirely.
what on earth possessed you to name yourself elephant parade?It was a dumb metaphor I thought up when I was twelve.
I feel like you're trying to say something :PVotecount:*origamiscienceguy - (0)
*roo - (0)
*Elephant Parade - (0)
*Reverie - TempAcc (1)
*TempAcc - (0)
Not voting: Reverie, origamiscienceguy, roo, Elephant Parade
3 to hammer.
I feel like you're trying to say something :PYou might think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
If you guys want to hang me, then go ahead. I'll shoot someone down with me and then all then all your hilarious theories about me can break into hilarious little pieces and it'll finally become obvious who's actualy scum, and then I can point at people and say ~I told you~Wrong, try again. You can't just generalise the people voting for you as scummy if you're actually being scummy and people call you out on it. As far as your 'I told you so', you've said nothing. You've spent all of your energy retaliating against me, are throwing blanket statements about everyone's scumminess this side of OSG, and now you're leveraging the small chance that you have a vengekill to spook us off? Will you not pursue anything?
Specially when the most passive player calls me out for being passive :vYou can't just say that while dodging his argument. If all you intend to do now is dodge, we've pretty much reached the end of the line.
It felt pointless, tbh.Really? I'm more passive than you, the player whose playstyle revolves around not talking to people? I'm inclined to disagree.
If you guys want to hang me, then go ahead. I'll shoot someone down with me and then all then all your hilarious theories about me can break into hilarious little pieces and it'll finally become obvious who's actualy scum, and then I can point at people and say ~I told you~
Specially when the most passive player calls me out for being passive :v
you sir are a liar and a scoundrel.Are you talking to me?
I was half-considering taking another weekend break, actually. Are you both okay with doing another one of these?This seems like a bad time for a break, but I'm still half-asleep; because of the second, I'm inclined to support it.
I don't really think a weekend break is necessary since this will come down to a decision by me. But if you really need to, I'm fine with it.What do you mean a decision by you? You're not above a lynch.
I don't really think a weekend break is necessary since this will come down to a decision by me. But if you really need to, I'm fine with it.I refuse to play right now. Seriously, I'm too tired. I might play tomorrow, if I manage a night's sleep, but don't expect any more posts from me in the next 16 hours.
Yeah. I was going to say this, but I decided that would go against the whole "not playing mafia right now" thing.I don't really think a weekend break is necessary since this will come down to a decision by me. But if you really need to, I'm fine with it.What do you mean a decision by you? You're not above a lynch.
On the other hand, Elephant Parade did play a solid game so far, outside of being on the bandwagon for this mislynch. I'm torn. I'd like to hear from Elephant Parade about what he thinks before pushing on.I have some strong suspicions regarding OSG, but there's a chance that I am incredibly wrong; I'll need to reread the thread to confirm, and I don't quite have time to do that right now.
As for defending myself, I don't actually have to. You guys can lynch me if you wish, but not before I gather enough for an informed opinion in case I do have to make a vengekill.Town only gets a vengekill N1, just so everyone knows. assuming I didn't misread the rules
Town only gets a vengekill N1, just so everyone knows.Yes.
That was because Temp just gave up. I can't do anyting about that.You should have pushed harder for a lynch against someone else. It's possible that you didn't have any strong leads at the time, but you still could have tried to find evidence against me, Reverie, or roo, since you believed that two of us were scum.
Yes. I could have, but I was trying to get temp acc to respond first so that his name was cleared. I feel like no matter how hard I pushed against getting roo lynched, it wouldn't have changed you guys oppinion about temp acc because he gave u up.That was because Temp just gave up. I can't do anyting about that.You should have pushed harder for a lynch against someone else. It's possible that you didn't have any strong leads at the time, but you still could have tried to find evidence against me, Reverie, or roo, since you believed that two of us were scum.
That's understandable, I guess. Ideally, you'd have pushed against someone else at the same time, but doing two things at once can be hard.Yes. I could have, but I was trying to get temp acc to respond first so that his name was cleared. I feel like no matter how hard I pushed against getting roo lynched, it wouldn't have changed you guys oppinion about temp acc because he gave u up.That was because Temp just gave up. I can't do anyting about that.You should have pushed harder for a lynch against someone else. It's possible that you didn't have any strong leads at the time, but you still could have tried to find evidence against me, Reverie, or roo, since you believed that two of us were scum.
I thought roo was scum, because he was acting totally different from normal. (mind you, I wish he acted like that all the time, but whatever) I don't like fabricating cases on somebody I think is town for obvious reasons.I wasn't suggesting you fabricate a case; I was suggesting that you reread the thread and try to build one legitimately.
Also he agreed to the fake voting thing so we know he intended to vote you temp.roo was subtly trying to egg a bit of suspicion at Elephant Parade here, when EP faux-voted TempAcc right after we instated it. This stuck out to me when he said it, and it does so greatly now that he's confirmed scum.
After RVS, OSG doesn't seek out interactions with anyone other than roo, whom he tunnels. During this time, I ask him to broaden his horizons:Nope. Just stating the facts. Look at any game roo has been in. (There are a few where he doesn't get lynched day 1, but the not answering questions I think is 100% correct.)Revarie: You seem to be a returning veteran, but I have never played with you. Just to let you know, roo will never answer anything, and he always gets lynched day one because of it.That sounds an awful lot like you're hinging on him getting lynched day one. Would that further your goals, origamiscienceguy?OSG oh my I think my prediction is correct tho. Your op makes no sense lol. What the hell is temp gonna tell you other than what he has already said?roo: Temp did answer with more information right here:
And I answer things that merit a response. If I don't answer anything why are you asking me things? Rather than do someting productive. Your whole post is just wordy and pings me a lot.It is not anything partaining to the game, but it is getting conversations started, unlike you, who have still yet to answer my question. And, by the way, your prediction is wrong. I am town.TempAcc: I think I've seen you around this subforum at some point, but I can't remember. Care to fill me in?This is me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq3abPnEEGE). Essentialy just a regular general discussion goer that rarely gets into forum games. Generally looked with suspicion on this forum due to a combination of a) being a lawyer, b) not being an atheist, c) not being a leftie and d) Tim Curry.OSG you scum brah?Nope.OrigamiScienceGuy: I have a faint memory of seeing you in the "play with your friends" subsection of the ~other games~ forum. Did you ever take part in dominions 3/4 matches?I have been in that section, but I haven't played that particular game. Perhaps you participated in one of my "You can't die" interactive storytelling games.
OSG: It has been two days. Outside of your RVS questions, you have only directed questions at roo; in fact, excluding question responses—you ignored my question, by the way—and a few short responses to posts, you have only interacted with roo. Take your blinders off! Again: What are your reads?In response, he does post his reads:TempAcc: You might think you have enough information, but you really don't; none of us do. None of us can, yet. Get posting!Okay, you're busy, but please stop lurking as soon as you have time.
roo: Why did you want to see one of my past games, anyway?
After this, he continues to not ask anyone (except roo) anything, though he does respond to other people's posts.Who would you lynch right now. Or who would you call scum right now. Better way to put it.I wouldn't lynch anybody right now. I don't have enough information about anybody. (Sory, I was confused. You said gun to my head, so I assumed you meant I was being lynched: who would I vengekill.)
But Elephant wants my reads, so here they are:
Roo: Town actually. He is answering questions at least which makes him seem so much better than in the other games.
Elephant Parade: Town. Good questions and observant.
Reverie: slight scum. Noticing a bit of tunneling on Temp Acc, and something about you just irks me. Not enough to warrent a vote yet.
Temp Acc: Neutral, not enough activity.
Origamisciengeguy: Who is this guy again?
I think we should discuss a bit more. Sorry, I've been busy making up school work. What are the main arguments on TempAcc? I am town, so I know that at least 1 scum is voting for temp acc, so forgive my hesitation.That's six days of tunnelling. Six days. Yeah, you end up focusing on one person, sometimes, but that's pretty ridiculous. It might have gone on longer, too, if not for the faux-lynch.
So, this is going to end up coming down to me. I would like both of you to make your case against the other person and in defense about yourself.If people had agreed with this, OSG wouldn't have had to do anything but make a judgement, and perhaps occasionally weigh in.
rooI mean, technically, it's both a reaction and a continuation of the tunnel, but it's also a pretty fair point.
You are getting mighty close to hammeing someone. Wouldn't want your scum buddy to "accidently" pull the trigger.
In general, vengeful games should not have a lynch without a clear consensus of the majority.
I'm drunk atm, so I'll refrain from playing properly until tomorrow, but by 'risk' I mean putting yourself out there/association with roo. The way I see it, you've been playing it safe up until now in anything not concerning roo. Just lately, that includes your weak vote on me (you could try to expound on that, but you chose not to so far) and trying to be backseat arbiter.I get home at this time four days a week. I'm not going to skip school for Mafia :P
Anyways, until tomorrow. Please post, Elephant Parade.
<snip>TempAcc: Please do not post direct commentary on the game while dead. Please also edit that out.
I generally don't do long posts, I generally do short posts commenting about what I think about developments, or theorysing and responding to people's questions. My attacks on people, instead of being long posts are always put in several posts, with me adding on to them as time goes on.You didn't do much theorizing or thinking, though. You talked to roo and gave single-line replies to questions directed at you. You didn't attack anyone other than roo, or discuss—I don't think any of your one-line replies could be counted as "discussion", though it's possible I overlooked one—anything not related to roo. Again, this went on for six days.
I was nearly certain that tempacc was town throughout the whole day, and after a point, none of you ever changed anything (your votes generally stayed on Temp acc) which in turn meant I didn't change anything.Why would we change anything? TempAcc had stopped defending himself entirely, and we had no real reason to believe he wasn't scum. It was on you to change things.
If I was scum, this conveluted plan makes no sense. I would get the godfather to push a lynch on a town member, then try to get my godfather vengekilled?? It makes infinately more sense to put pressure on another townie so that THEY can get vengekilled which means day one win. Why extend the game longer than it needs to be? Makes no sense.(Note: This conversation is a bit confusing, so I may have misunderstood it. What I think Reverie is accusing OSG of is engineering roo's vengekill to gain towncred.)
I guess it's obvious that I'm pretty burned out on this :/Yeah. I suppose that sums up my situation too. I think you are scummy for seeming to refuse to change your belief that tempacc was scum, although I can't really blame you since he never defended himself. Shall we lock in?
Between the two of you, I think OSG is our mafioso. Some contortion on D1 brought him to where he was here on D2, expecting us to sort this out between ourselves while giving him license to coast. Elephant Parade, meanwhile, has played a solid game (other than being hammerer for the mislynch and being strangely contrary to his own argument a few times). I'm going to lock this in. I expect OSG will lock in his vote on me and it's really up to Elephant Parade at this point to make his decision certain, at which point we can switch to red votes and finally end this game.
I think you are scummy for seeming to refuse to change your belief that tempacc was scum, although I can't really blame you since he never defended himself.So you think she's scum because of something, but you can't blame her for it? Aren't you blaming her by accusing her of being scum? How does this statement make any sense at all?
Shall we lock in?I mean, I kind of want to say "no, we should keep discussing", but it sounds like everyone is burned out. Are you absolutely sure you have nothing more to say?
That's the big problem with Tempacc not doing anything. I wanted to keep the game going long enough for tempacc to defend himself because what he was lynched for was, quite frankly, trivial. If he did anything at all, it would have been hard for anybody to vote for him, but Revarie was locked on Tempacc for the trivial thing, which is what I meant to say. But since Tempacc didn't do anything, I don't have any concrete proof that he was tunneling Tempacc. Even though I think that he was.QuoteI think you are scummy for seeming to refuse to change your belief that tempacc was scum, although I can't really blame you since he never defended himself.So you think she's scum because of something, but you can't blame her for it? Aren't you blaming her by accusing her of being scum? How does this statement make any sense at all?
ElephantParade, do you believe that I really did all that stuff day one just to have a easy day 2? Because that really doesn't make sense to me.I'm not entirely sure, but it seems likely; for scum, an easy LYLO is incredibly valuable. Also, it fits pretty much everything you did—the early roo bus, the bizarre TempAcc pseudo-defence, and that early D2 comment.
That's the big problem with Tempacc not doing anything. I wanted to keep the game going long enough for tempacc to defend himself because what he was lynched for was, quite frankly, trivial. If he did anything at all, it would have been hard for anybody to vote for him, but Revarie was locked on Tempacc for the trivial thing, which is what I meant to say. But since Tempacc didn't do anything, I don't have any concrete proof that he was tunneling Tempacc. Even though I think that he was.That really didn't come across in the post, and I'm not sure I agree with your logic. You say that you wanted to "keep the game going long enough for TempAcc to defend himself", but he had plenty of time to do that in—we spent more than six days at faux-hammer. Towards the end, he gave up entirely—which you mention, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Also, I'd like to hear what you have to say about me, Elephant Parade.You read town to me. You introduced faux-voting, which holds no benefit for scum, and you've been really active and productive throughout the game.
How is a LYLO more valuable than a day one win? That is the one part of the weird plan I don't see.In your case, going for a D1 win likely would have gotten *you* vengekilled, or at least lynched D2, since it would have required you to abruptly switch targets.
How would it have gotten me vengekilled? I was the only one who was "on" tempacc's side. Why would he lynch me if I voted for you or Revarie instead of roo? You guys were voting him too.Oh, that actually slipped my mind. Still, you defending TempAcc wouldn't necessarily prevent him from being suspicious of you—I do agree, however, that even if you did suddenly switch, it probably wouldn't be enough for him to vengekill you. Even so, it might be suspicious enough for him to not vengekill the person you were against.
Revarie, are you confident enough that TempAcc is scum that even if he said he is going to vengekill you, you would still vote him?That's a complicated matter I've been turning over in my head, and I'm glad you brought it up.
The short answer is no, I'm not. If this were any larger setup, with more players and breathing room for a potential mislynch on D1, it would be different. I'd call his bluff and that would be that. This game, though, is like starting on MYLO (it may as well be with the vengekill abilities), and doing that blind. Ordinarily I wouldn't care about dying if it meant having a shot to kill scum, but in this case, the whole game is on the line. TempAcc did mention that he was looking at other vengekill candidates, but while that sounds nice I can't discount that this might be misdirection—especially since he seems to latch onto the notion that I'm scum so dearly.
It all comes down to two outcomes. Do I call the bluff and hope the three of us voting TempAcc are right? Or do we drag this out for long enough to get comprehensive reads on everyone? I introduced the faux-vote system precisely so we can remove any time constraints, and naturally I'd choose the latter if it were up to me. Town's best odds are with taking its time.
Today you've fallen in lockstep behind me just like you have yesterday. Relative to OSG, you're in my blindspot; I haven't really seen any argument from you that could be considered just yours rather than supplementing mine. Are you soaking up my arguments because you're absolutely certain I'm town for introducing faux-votes? Please give me a reason to think you're not hiding in plain sight.I'm almost certain you're town, both because you introduced faux-votes and because you've been active and productive throughout the entire game. OSG, on the other hand, didn't do anything useful D1 other than tunnel Roo; his defence of TempAcc relied on the assumption that he was town. The TempAcc defence and Roo tunnel were the only two big things he did. Furthermore, he's spent all of D2 on the defensive; I found no attacks against me, and only one against you. This attack basically boils down to your refusal to change your vote from TempAcc, which is ridiculous; the only real defence for TempAcc was OSG's useless one. He also hasn't bugged me at all (I think?) for voting TempAcc, even though I, too, never changed my faux-vote from him after the faux-lynch. That's kind of inconsistent.
As for me being in "lockstep" behind you: I think you're exaggerating a bit, but there are two factors that I think contribute to that; the first is that I generally get home after you and OSG talk for a while, and the second is that I'm playing pretty lazily at this point. I'll try to come up with some more original arguments.I was being a bit dramatic. Maybe even more than I intended, because I arranged the first letters in my questions to you to begin with T-R-A-P for Reverie-is-being-weird insurance in case hanging out on a limb to suddenly press you and trap OSG all at once did backfire. Anyways, your answer feels transparent and I do buy the timezone shenanigans argument. It's hard for us to chat directly in this game (it's 2:30AM here!), but try not to be lazy if you can for future reference, it's spooky to just be agreed with.
I've been on the defensive because I had two votes against me. I still feel the need to defend myself because Revarie's Faux-vote on you was just for a change in pace. I am pretty confident that he will change it back to me in a little bit.First of all, no fun. I was hoping to wrap this up cleverly with a neat little bow and a whirlwind win for town after that disaster of a D1.
I really can't put my suspicion of Revarie into concise words, but I'll try my best: She went after TempAcc day one, and everybody followed her (except for me because of unrelated reasons I am sure you know of.) Day 2, she immediately goes after me, and you follow. She has basically been controlling the game this entire time.You're right, and that scares the shit out of me. I've never been the most active/aggressive player in a game before, and certainly not agreed with by a majority (even if there are just five of us), but to put things into perspective, that's just roo and Elephant Parade we're talking about. And one is dead, confirmed scum. I don't think that is quite as bad as it sounds, but that brings us to...
Her arguments so far have been wrong.Surprise! I'm only human. I've been in enough mafia games to know that D1 is always a mess. This is like 50% of what made me nervous yesterday. The balance for this setup looks so stacked against town simply because we have nil to go on at the start. And the start is like 90% of the game.
At one point, she even said something like "I know this is your plan, and it won't work."You paraphrase that more cut and dry than it actually was, but I was trying to intimidate you here. You'd be silly if you thought that I knew this for sure.
I was half-expecting him to jump on Elephant Parade at the first sign of me backing off (a clear sign he'll jump to kill anyone to save himself as scum would), but he defused that right away.Yeah, because I'm not scum :P
First of all, no fun. I was hoping to wrap this up cleverly with a neat little bow and a whirlwind win for town after that disaster of a D1.I literally tried my best to say my argument against you later in the post. I just am not very good at explainng them, although I am happy you understood it, at least, but you don't matter since you're never going to vote for yourself :P
Secondly, there is nothing stopping you from making an argument if you have one. If you haven't noticed, we have all the time we could ever want and it literally makes no difference if you have two fake votes on you if you have any vestige of an argument to make. That's the thing with being town and also under attack. You're more useful playing productively and not being completely turtle-y. TempAcc could have used this advice. I'd very much have welcomed an actual argument out of him against me (that wasn't the vague statement that I was playing into his theories). It beats folding. Unless you're scum.
Well, you have been on a long mafia hiatus if I recall, I suppose you've changed after all this time. I know I have after just one year.I really can't put my suspicion of Revarie into concise words, but I'll try my best: She went after TempAcc day one, and everybody followed her (except for me because of unrelated reasons I am sure you know of.) Day 2, she immediately goes after me, and you follow. She has basically been controlling the game this entire time.You're right, and that scares the shit out of me. I've never been the most active/aggressive player in a game before, and certainly not agreed with by a majority (even if there are just five of us), but to put things into perspective, that's just roo and Elephant Parade we're talking about. And one is dead, confirmed scum.
I just got a scholarship to my second-choice university. So that's why I'm happy all of sudden.((*bamfs in*
Who the heck would want to watch this game???
BTW, I just got a scholarship to my second-choice university. So that's why I'm happy all of sudden.OSG: Congrats!
Should we introduce a deadline to finish the game? It's gotten stale and no one is budging.This is kind of an important decision, and just-after-I-woke-up is not a good time to make it. I'll think on it and answer later.
ow.ow.ow
I managed to put another one of my grievences into words:
Revarie controlled the day1 lynch, Roo (godfather) and EP followed you. The only person who didn't follow you (and thus dragged the day for a week or so) was me. I was the only one who didn't follow you like you expected. So when day 2 comes along, you know EP will follow you, so you go after me instead.
I just prodded EP.I'm not sure. I'm going to be busy-ish for the next week, but I'll probably still have the opportunity to post at least a few times per day. Thing is, I'll be visiting with family I haven't seen for a while, so I don't really want to computer-zombie out. I'll answer this in a couple of days, if that's okay.
Idea: If everyone agrees, how about a one week limit for finishing the game? If nobody is lynched by that point, everyone loses.
Wait, hold on. Has it really been four days since Elephant Parade posted? That's past the 48 hour mark even with our silent agreement to take weekends off :/Yeah, I felt pretty unmotivated after I lost the post I was working on (which was entirely my fault), but that's not really an excuse. I'll be travelling for most of tomorrow, so I'll try to rebuild it today.
ouch.This is hilariously weak, but it was one of the first posts of D2. The fact that OSG came out fighting is a point in his favour.
there are three of us left. I have noticed that Revarie had been sort of ignoring roo for most of day 1, not attacking him.
The townie who was lynched would probably vengekill the guy who I thought was scum because I was "pretending to be on their side" according to your theory, then they would listen. So why wuldn't I just pressure him to vengekill another townie and win the game outright? It ends the day earlier. Your theory makes no sense, and I don't see why you continue trying to find a reason to lynch me. Unless you are scum. That is.This stuff has been argued pretty thoroughly, so I'm going to just say I disagree and leave it at that. If you need a refresher, just click the quote.
ow.ow.owI'm not sure how I feel about this one. It's an attack, I guess, though it's worth noting that OSG's core reason for not following the TempAcc lynch only worked because three people were already voting him; had that *not* happened, OSG could (presumably) have ended up voting for him.
I managed to put another one of my grievences into words:
Revarie controlled the day1 lynch, Roo (godfather) and EP followed you. The only person who didn't follow you (and thus dragged the day for a week or so) was me. I was the only one who didn't follow you like you expected. So when day 2 comes along, you know EP will follow you, so you go after me instead.
I was thinking you could have agreed with roo to accept the risk of the venekill and roo would be a reletiely silent killer at that point. After thinking it over, if I was on the outside looking in, That would seem more likely than what you were suggesting about me, but not by all that much. So. I am thinking that I will change my vote to ElephantParade since fom a third peson perspective, he has not done much of anything, very neutal in everything. Which would be a great scum disguise. I still have a bad feeling about you, Revarie, but after some days (and nights) of contemplation, I think that EP is actually more likely (statistically) to be scum.My response to this is below the dividing line.
I think that EP is actually more likely (statistically) to be scum.What do you mean by "statistically"? As for being neutral: I've been kind of hesitant to take strong positions, since mislynches are so absurdly horrible in this game, and I don't want to be the new player that makes the town lose. At the same time, strong positions are required for anything to get done; I think I've learned that from this game. I tend to waffle in real life, too; it's not just Mafia.
Well, you blame me for making few attacks, when that accusation was the first attack you made all game. Everything else was silently following in the shadows.This is not actually true.
TempAcc: The only questions you've asked have been RVS questions, and now you've voted without even asking one. Ask some questions, please.QuoteSituation has not changed.And it likely won't, unless you ask questions!
So, yeah. TempAcc: Why haven't you been asking any questions? If you have the time, why not ask a question of each person you have a scum read on?
OSG: It has been two days. Outside of your RVS questions, you have only directed questions at roo; in fact, excluding question responses—you ignored my question, by the way—and a few short responses to posts, you have only interacted with roo. Take your blinders off! Again: What are your reads?
Unvote.
TempAcc: You could have at least checked my profile page, and maybe my recent posts. Had you done so, you would have found that I haven't been active today, except maybe in the early morning. The fact that you didn't tells me that you're less interested in finding scum, and more interested in diverting attention.
It's also possible that you were just lazy, of course, but you really should have checked. It's one click to see if I'm online, and another few to see if I've been posting.
Fake-edit: Looking through the recent posts again, I found that you couldn't have been trying to divert any attention—unless roo's your scumbuddy, and I notice that you haven't commented on the L-1 post, despite being the one at L-1—since the attention wasn't on you in the first place. I guess it's more likely that you were just being lazy, then.I'm willing to do that.If faux-voting is a full replacement for regular voting, it should be in green so we can still FoS. Remember, you only get one vote at a time!
Unvote
roo
But let's do it in blue since that is the color most typically used.So tl;dr basically I don't believe temps account.This is pretty shady. I mean, pressure voting and all, but you shouldn't put somebody at -1 in a hammer-based game without a really good reason. You were clearly aware that it was -1, too, since you mentioned it in your post.
He said that his vote was random and nonsensical but has a "abstract" reason. But it is totally random.
The abstract reason was seeing how reverie would react or act.
Originally I thought the vote was random then it was revealed that it wasn't. I thought oh okay it was a reaction test of sorts. But it was revealed by temp that it wasn't a reaction test and holds to his stance that it was random. It's just a lot of spin.
tempacc
That is -1 btwRoo, by saying "1 more until hammer" but not doing anything to stop someone from hammeing, it makes you look eager to see the lynch happening. Almost like you wanted somebody to do the hammer, but either they weren't around or they thought of the consequences.Uh, if roo wanted to say "hey, scumbuddy, lynch this dude", wouldn't he have used their scumchat? Unless you're saying that he was trying to tempt a townie into lynching, which is possible, I guess, though I can't see it working.
I find the L-1 comment suspicious because it shows he knew what he was doing, but I'm not sure it means anything beyond that.I put forward the motion that we discuss organising a hammer once we reach three faux votes on a player. All in favour?Agreed. I think that the discussion should last at least 24 hours, though, since people are likely going to be more casual with "fake" votes than real ones.That's a really interesting argument, though I'm not sure I agree; whether it's a good argument is of secondary importance to the argument's honesty, though. I can see this being an honest attempt to stir up activity, especially since the last couple of days have been slow.You just put a second vote on someone. 3 votes is to hammer. That means that all it would take is one vote from a scum to end this day prematurely. Assuming tempacc is town, his vengekill would prrobably go on the hammerer, but we would have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, the scum would live on to day 2, and town would not have learned anything. So I was voting you because getting someone close to a hammer is not a town action to do.
I am fully aware of how many people it takes to hammer somebody osg. I said -1. As in it takes one more person to hammer.
My supposedly non-town action is not deferring to forum culture on how a game should be played. What do you wanna talk about osg? Do you disagree with rev and me? If so why? You haven't said anything. Even here you say "Assuming temp is town". Wtf? You are a fucking omnishambles right now and have zero clue about what is going on. And you want to dictate how I play and when I can vote?
Was my vote not optimal? If so why not? Does my vote not achieve discussion pressure and having the hammer be absolutely certain of their choice? Putting someone at -2 pushes the game forward vastly.
Don't talk to me about voting for supposedly attempting to end the day prematurely. Back to this in a bit. That vote was terrible. Now how did you know it would end the day and not the game?
Still, the L-1 post could also have been an attempted quickhammer, like OSG suggested.
roo: Do you still think that putting TempAcc at L-1 was worth it? In a similar situation, would you do so [put a player at L-1] again, even knowing that doing so is against Mafia etiquette, and thus likely to disrupt the game?
You were always with somebody on those accusations though. Seems like you're just trying to justify your position on the wagon rather than create your own arguments out of nothing.That doesn't seem to be the case with the this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156180.msg6808156#msg6808156), unless I missed something.
That was a pressure vote. You wanted my reads, I gave them to you, you unvoted next post....Yes? It was? It was still an attack, right? Why would I have kept my vote on you?
Also, holey moley. You don't seem to like my vote on you very much. :PActually, I don't like that you lied. It's true that I've mostly been following along—I explained why earlier, I believe—though I wouldn't go so far as "silently following in the shadows"; what isn't true is that my most recent accusation is the first I've made. You can argue (incorrectly, I think) that it's the first original one, but not the first one altogether.
Well, you blame me for making few attacks, when that accusation was the first attack you made all game. Everything else was silently following in the shadows.
That was my impression. You were either going after someone with a wagon on them already, or just pressure votes.I think you're confusing "attack" with "original attack". Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "just pressure votes"; for an attack to be an attack, do you need to keep your vote on the target afterwards--no matter how they respond, and even if you're not sure they're scum, and even if you want to use your vote to pressure someone else? I don't think so, personally.
Okay, I guess its time to finish thisYou could have waited for me to post, y'know.
ElephantParade
That's a hammer. I'm actually town. Which one of you is scum?
You are the Mafioso.
Your partner is roo, and this is the scumchat. (http://I probably don't have to remove this, but whatever)
It seems that Jack removed the chat.I changed the link to nonsense, just in case; there's no exception in the OP for posting the scumchat post-game, though, in retrospect, common sense dictates that I could have just posted it.
Yay! That only took 50 days. Is that a record I wonder?Well, my first time in two years. I've played three games before, including one scum game.
Also, don't feel bad EP, you played an amazing game, especially for your first time.
God damn.You always think its me.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well this was the only time I was wrong :PGod damn.You always think its me.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
>TempAcc lynch --> Reverie vengekill is looking incredibly likely. Hooray!