Bay 12 Games Forum

Other Projects => Other Games => Play With Your Buddies => Topic started by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:04:51 pm

Title: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:04:51 pm
Something something blaze it. Now that the obvious Joke is out of the way...

Dominions 4 is a game where each player takes the role of a god in order to gain a bid on the throne of the Pantokrator, the god among gods. This particular one is going to be probably a vanilla game rather than a hashed nation game. At most we're going to have tweaks in terms of mods if players would like them.

(Space reserved for llamaserver info)

Game name: Bay12GamesRound420 (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound420)
Map: Snerdryn (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn-v11)
Mods: Worthy heroes 5.5 (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=2749)
Era: Middle Age
Disciples: No

Player List:
1. chaoticag (Arcosphale)
2. jking47 (Marignon)
3. Delta Foxtrot (Shinuyama)
4. USEC_OFFICER shadowlord (Ulm)
5. Culise (Vanarus)
6. Hatman (C'tis)
7. vangelic_surgeon (Asphodel)
8. ThtblovesDF (Oceana)

Time allowance: 30 hours to start, gods help me with my college workload otherwise
Special site frequency: baseline for era
Random event frequency: Common
Story events: Off
Score graphs: Off
Hall of Fame: 15
Artifact forging limit : Limited
Thrones: all lvl 1, standard for map size
Renaming: Allowed
Research: Normal
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [1/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: jking47 on March 01, 2016, 04:11:40 pm
I would be interested! I actually just got dominions a couple weeks ago, played a few games against AI but never multiplayer before. Have been reading/following some MP games and it seems like fun! If you don't mind a newbie getting stomped I would love to play.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [1/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 01, 2016, 04:13:44 pm
Still interested, obviously. Experienced but rusty would be pretty accurate. I can bow out if this gets full and another newbie wants in.

As for age, EA has cool stuff. We could go with EA. Dibs on Yomi if so. I haven't played in a while, they're still rubbish right?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [1/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:19:05 pm
I'm still under the impression that yomi is garbage still. So it should be fine prolly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [1/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 01, 2016, 04:19:42 pm
Yomi hasn't received any changes in forever so... Still fairly rubbish, yeah. Chaos Power is definitely a kick in the nads for their units.

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring. It's been awhile since I've played Doms 4, but the latest patch has increased my interest... Might as well give this a shot. If I can I'll claim Ulm because they seem pretty cool.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Culise on March 01, 2016, 04:25:27 pm
I'm game to give it a whirl.  If we go MA, Vanarus is a bit interesting, and EA...I'll have to think, which is why I voted MA, but I'll be perfectly fine playing with either. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:29:59 pm
Also worth mentioning people should vote. I don't think USEC did, but then again, Ulm seems generally awesome no mater what era. At least in terms of theme.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 01, 2016, 04:33:49 pm
Yeah. LA Ulm is the only one I have reservations about because I'm not familiar with blood, but the other two ages? I wouldn't complain about playing as either of them. They both have their good points.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:36:43 pm
If we're going middle ages I think I'll take Arcosophile then, given people are claiming things now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: AlStar on March 01, 2016, 04:54:13 pm
Despite still being in both 418 and 419, I'd be willing to join this one also, if there are no objections? (I can't tell if you want a more 'noob' game or not.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 01, 2016, 04:59:19 pm
Hmm, I can sign you up if you want to, but I would prefer something noob friendly honestly. I mean, I'm letting Delta Foxtrot in since they're willing to play a weaker nation, would you be fine with that handicap?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 01, 2016, 05:09:10 pm
This was discussed in the Other Games thread:

Giving this the tiniest bump to see if people are interested in a multiplayer game of this. Something more beginner oriented. I've only played one and a half games of this and those were so long ago I doubt I'm in any shape to be super competitive.

Emphasis mine. Figured I could join since the last time I played was about a year and several patches ago, especially if I handicap myself with nation selection.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: jking47 on March 01, 2016, 05:49:40 pm
I don't really care about what age, I have only really played a few games of EA and 1 of MA so no real opinion.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: AlStar on March 01, 2016, 06:48:02 pm
S'all good then - I'll sit this one out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [4/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Hatman on March 02, 2016, 02:01:03 am
I'd rather like to participate. Most of the nations I'd like to play and haven't before are in LA, but I'll happily adjust to other ages.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 02, 2016, 03:54:33 am
Also a reminder to vote!

Plus I figure now is a good time to ask about preferred tweaks. Worthy heroes mod, possibly that balance mod? Go ahead and lemme know if there's any preference. Personally leaning towards the worthy hero mod if anything, while unsure about the changes Balance Overhaul does. As is the base game seems fine for me so far and I'd like to get used to it rather than a mod.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 02, 2016, 08:05:17 am
Due to its beginner orientation I'm leaning towards no to few mods. Worthy Heroes could be used since cool heroes are always fun.

For map choice, I'm going to be boring and propose a Pymous map. Peliwyr (127+18) (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/peliwyr-12718-wraparound) if we get 8. Atha Avin (81+10) (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/atha-avin-929-wraparound) or Biddyn (81+9) (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/biddyn-849-wraparound) if we stay at six. Of the two I prefer Biddyn because it doesn't have a huge cluster of wastelands in the middle. Seems he also made a new map just a while ago, Snerdryn (117+19) (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/snerdryn-11719-wraparound). We could use that if we get 7.

None of these is a must but they look pretty and play well enough in my experience.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: EuchreJack on March 02, 2016, 12:20:10 pm
A little unsolicited advice from the thankfully disqualified (at my Dominions limit, thanks):

Don't use a poll for era selection.  Polls are for when you want random mooks from the internet to dictate your fate.  That is not what you are going for, I assume.

If we're going middle ages I think I'll take Arcosophile then, given people are claiming things now.
Good choice.  I think I played them as my first nation.  I destroyed my neighbor, then noticed Il Palazzo took over 3/4th of the map while I was engaged in my little war.  Game over, but it was fun while it lasted.

EDIT: This was too interesting not to post:
Plural of chassis is chassis.

Also, I'm looking at World of Warhammer, it's a little ugly zoomed in but it could work.

Also also, I noticed that there are more votes than applicants.  Please don't vote if you don't want to play, and if you vote post that you want to play.

If you don't want random non-participants to vote, don't set up a poll.  It isn't hard to just ask people to post age preferences along with faction preference.

Personally, I'd like to see late age because nobody has done that yet on this board.  But I currently am not interested in playing, just watching.
From my first Dominions game, the third one on this forum, where I played Arco
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: chaoticag on March 02, 2016, 12:58:51 pm
I think my internet issues are finally over. Hopefully anyway. I'll likely lock the players in place when I wake up again, so 12 hours at the earliest. I did have my eye on Biddyn for this with these many players. So far seems a tie, but In case of tie breaker I'll have this as a middle ages game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: jking47 on March 02, 2016, 02:10:28 pm
Hopefully we will get couple more players, but I would like to call Marignon. And I do like the look of Biddyn so I can throw my vote in with that if we stay at six. Peliwyr for 8 players looks cooler though...join up people!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 02, 2016, 03:00:50 pm
I'd like to call dibs on MA Yomi aka. Shinuyama.

This thread seems to have the latest Worthy Heroes link:
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=2631&st=0
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Culise on March 02, 2016, 03:41:33 pm
I don't really mind if we go with Worth Heroes 5.4, which you linked, or 5.5 here (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=2749).  5.5's major changes were EA or LA, but there are a couple tweaks that would affect Vanarus and Ulm. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 02, 2016, 03:45:01 pm
I just searched for what I thought was the newest. Might as well go with the actual newest.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: Hatman on March 02, 2016, 05:38:53 pm
I've no objections to worthy heroes for MA. I'm rather interested in playing C'tis in the likely even't the game is MA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla [6/8] Sign ups open.
Post by: jking47 on March 02, 2016, 09:12:40 pm
Hey, I asked a friend of mine who I convinced to buy the game to join in. He is waiting for admin approval but he said his username is vangelic_surgeon, I just wanted to make sure he got in before we locked it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, he said he would like to play Asphodel
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, set up soon.
Post by: chaoticag on March 03, 2016, 06:50:37 am
That took longer than I expected. I totally did not get distracted by other things in between me waking up and going to classes.

I'll say that vendric has until everyone else signs up to the llama server game before I go looking for a replacement. I'd like them to post on here before I get things live to know they would end up being involved with the thread at least. I've got exercise in a bit, then I'll set the llamaserver game up. We're going to go with 5.5 worthy heroes, on Snerdryn. Which might be big enough that we can have an extra player in if someone feels that they wanted to join this, but game will be live more or less when all players are accounted for that signed up here.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 03, 2016, 09:08:38 am
And a bump to say this is now live. make sure to send your pretenders to pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net. Subject should be the game name up top. Check this link (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1890&view=findpost&p=22077932) for more info. It likely won't be an issue, but load up worthy heroes before making your pretender just in case!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: vangelic surgeon on March 03, 2016, 03:03:42 pm
Hi, im pretty new at dominion but id be interested in joining this game to see how long i can last. If you do decide to pick me i would prefer to play asphodel if it is not already taken.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 03, 2016, 03:30:30 pm
Arcoscephale (chaoticag) and Shinuyama (yours truly) are in.

I should probably start practising my expansion strats while the game is still being created :P

I also think it would be a good idea for chaoticag to send the admin pass to someone, just in case life happens. Sure we can send an email to llama and ask for it but that's always a hassle. I can volunteer, though I have no inclination to administrate this game unless it becomes necessary.

And another thing, what's our planned turn timer? I recall 28h working quite well in the past.

Hi, im pretty new at dominion but id be interested in joining this game to see how long i can last. If you do decide to pick me i would prefer to play asphodel if it is not already taken.

I don't think anyone objects, and I haven't read anyone claiming Asphodel yet either.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: vangelic surgeon on March 03, 2016, 03:42:11 pm
ok then should i send my pretender god to the server then?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 03, 2016, 03:46:02 pm
Yes. Chaoticag posted a link few posts earlier with instructions if you're not sure how it works. And make sure you download the mod and map we use, you can find them in the opening post.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 03, 2016, 03:54:13 pm
Glad to have you here Vangelic, hope it goes well on your end.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 04, 2016, 09:53:54 am
I'd be intrested, unsure of race since I didn't try most of them yet, but I'll just take one with free-chaff and no/limited unit building if possible, in hopes of that being "easy".
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 04, 2016, 10:41:48 am
Free chaff and limited unit building does not an easy nation make. Usually the opposite in fact, since the free chaff generally comes with your dom ganking your populations to generate them (making everyone hate you) and your limited unit building being done with gems (which has its own host of problems). Not to mention that micromanaging your free chaff is a pain... I definitely wouldn't call any nation that fits your criteria 'easy'.

If you want 'easy' then I would go with MA Man if I was you. They don't get free chaff but their units are good and their mage-corps aren't bad either. So you have a good early game which definitely helps you later on when people start fighting each other.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 04, 2016, 11:41:12 am
I'd be intrested, unsure of race since I didn't try most of them yet, but I'll just take one with free-chaff and no/limited unit building if possible, in hopes of that being "easy".
I wouldn't recommend this but we have a free slot. Figured I'd have one in case an eighth player showed up. All we have for freespawn nations is Ermor. But yeah will update the topic when I'm back home to account for your pick.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 04, 2016, 11:43:24 am
Seriously though. Don't take Ermor if you're unsure of which nation to play as. They work differently from everyone else and are huge jerks and so on. Not the kind of thing to play if you're looking for something 'easy'.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: Culise on March 04, 2016, 12:19:42 pm
Aye.  While Ermor meets your criteria for freespawn, it is also typically target numero uno for anyone nearby who has to deal with its murderous dominion, and having a relatively unique recruitment mechanic for armies tends to make things tricky.  I think the most friendly nations for neophytes tend to have relatively low magic diversity (less combinatorial explosion with paths, allowing the player to ease in), as well as powerful, relatively inexpensive national troops (can throw a powerful army together from fort recruits, rather than messing with summons or freespawn).  In game at present, Ulm and Marignon probably qualify.  Not yet picked include Man, Pangaea, and possibly Sceleria and Pythium. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 04, 2016, 12:44:46 pm
Now that Culise mentions it, if you really want to, remember that you can automate recruitment this time around. It's like freespawn, but you pay for it. Unfortunately, Ulm, the go to recommendation for beginner nations (in my opinion anyway) has already been taken. Maybe play Tien Chi instead. Another suggestion would be to play a bless nation where you only need to worry about the logistics of a few elite units, while the rest of your troops support those units. Scaleria can also hit the freespawn but not threshold I believe since their priests can reanimate the dead. Wait until someone else confirms that for me.

Also, lemme know if you need help Vangelic, you seemed confused on how to submit things to the server to get started, so we're free to help you out with that stuff if need be.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 04, 2016, 01:19:52 pm
I can always give up Ulm and move to another nation if needed. MA Pelagia isn't the best nation in the world, but they do appeal to me and the thought of shaking my fist at the surface dwellers is very amusing. It's up to Tht if they want to play Ulm of course, but I see no problem with switching. With another player joining I'm more worried about the map being too small than anything else, if that counts for anything.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 04, 2016, 01:29:49 pm
8 players at 113 lands should still be a little spacious. The rule of thumb is 10 lands per player as is, with 15 being as spacy as it gets before it feels too open. On Snerdryn we'd have 14 and a half land provinces to share, with two water provinces each given a missing water nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 04, 2016, 01:39:29 pm
Oh. I thought that Snerdyn was smaller than that for some reason. Never mind, the map is definitely fine with me in that case.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 04, 2016, 05:20:17 pm
Unless I'm too old school to know about changes, Abyssia is pretty easy, especially in MA when it doesn't have the blood thing going.  Their strategy can be summed up in two words:
"Burn Everything"

And since their dominions only heats up the neighborhood, their neighbors usually don't hassle them.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: Culise on March 04, 2016, 05:33:16 pm
Ah, the only reason I didn't suggest Abysia is because they have the double-whammy of high-heat and high-encumbrance, which hurts fatigue quite a bit, but it looks like that actually isn't as big an issue as I thought from looking it over - their fire resistance is high enough to completely negate fatigue penalties from heat.  In other words, if learning how to blood and burn is your thing, then by all means, feel free to scorch the world. ^_^

Also, T'ien Ch'i was my very first nation, and it is a very good learner.  They have a huge variety in magic, though, so the complexity of that might be a bit daunting.  That said, if you can grasp it and how to benefit from it, it's an excellent option.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 04, 2016, 05:34:55 pm
...Sometimes I forget abyssia is a nation despite it having a giant flaming الله as a god. For some reason.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 04, 2016, 05:37:35 pm
Probably because LA Abysia is the only one that really sees play? Most people tend to go for nations that aren't so... monosyllabic. Yes, EA/MA Abysia have Blood/Astral/Earth in their cap but outside it there's nothing but Fire. Tends to put people off.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 05, 2016, 07:17:25 am
So someone has sent in Xibalba as a nation to the game. Just need to make sure this is not something someone out of this game has done. Was it USEC or ThtblovesDF? I need to make sure at least.

(I've turned off automatic start until I can confirm this)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 05, 2016, 08:17:55 am
Wasn't me, I'd like to play Oceania and messaged Chaoticag the details. I didn't find a submit link on the games page, so I assume that was the right course of action.

**Hiding my prediction here: Ulm will most likly win.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 05, 2016, 09:15:12 am
Well, I posted some instructions before. I went and deleted your message before I got a chance to read it, so yeah, you are not meant to let the other players know what your god is, heh. Llamaserver works entirely by email. Anyway, here's the instructions yet again. I'll go ahead and remove Xibalba.

And a bump to say this is now live. make sure to send your pretenders to pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net. Subject should be the game name up top. Check this link (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1890&view=findpost&p=22077932) for more info. It likely won't be an issue, but load up worthy heroes before making your pretender just in case!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: chaoticag on March 05, 2016, 09:22:33 am
I also think it would be a good idea for chaoticag to send the admin pass to someone, just in case life happens. Sure we can send an email to llama and ask for it but that's always a hassle. I can volunteer, though I have no inclination to administrate this game unless it becomes necessary.

And another thing, what's our planned turn timer? I recall 28h working quite well in the past.
I can't believe I missed this. No idea how, but I can send the admin password if need be. I'll do that in a bit. As for the planned turn timer I'm setting it to 30h to give me a bit of extra slack. Juggling 18 credit hours and a few other things means I might want this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla Closed sign ups, Send in pretenders!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 05, 2016, 11:06:39 am
Alright, just got the confirmation, all good to go.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 05, 2016, 11:28:35 am
Alright, with all pretenders in the games should be a go! All you guys need to do to submit a turn is send the 2h file from your save to turns [at] llamaserver [dot] net.

The in game messaging system is not the best thing ever, so use the forums' PM system in order to communicate diplomacy.

Speaking of diplomacy, I'll go ahead and set some ground rules for it. Agreements are by no means sacred and may be violated at any time. That being said, if you gain a reputation for not being trustworthy, this might work against you. One exception to this rule however, if players decide on trading goods, then the trade must go through. If you say you will give gold in exchange for a magic item, both items must be engaged.

I'll go ahead and set the turn timer to 30h for now. This being the first turn, it should go fast, but I'll delay and send warnings as needed for this turn especially. All players should know the game started once they sent their first turn in, but feel free to ask for extensions.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 05, 2016, 07:26:50 pm
if players decide on trading goods, then the trade must go through if they post it on here. Obviously we won't know if a trade is conducted in PMs, but otherwise, if you say you will give gold in exchange for a magic item, both items must be engaged.

You need to remove the "if they post it on here".  PMs can be revealed if necessary, so don't invade on player privacy so much.  We're not the NSA, lol.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 06, 2016, 02:34:05 am
Alright, edited the above. Still new to running this whole thing. Also, seems all that's left to turn their turn is is Shinuyama, so we should have our next turns emailed to us soon. With that everyone should know how llamaserver works.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Karlito on March 06, 2016, 02:40:55 am
You need to remove the "if they post it on here".  PMs can be revealed if necessary, so don't invade on player privacy so much.  We're not the NSA, lol.

A rule that trades must be public could be interesting in theory, though I think the result would just be to make people trade less.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 06, 2016, 02:52:54 am
I don't know if it's necessarily an invasion of privacy, because it says nothing about forcing people to post it publicly.  It does explicitly state that trades via PM will not be known about, and distinguishes this by contrast to that; it states only that trades that do happen to be posted publicly must be carried out.  In other words, I read it as a condition where two types of trades may exist:

1. Trade posted in the open in this public thread. This must go through, as per the rules.

2. Trade conducted via PM, IM, or some other communication medium (perhaps even in-game messages, heavens forfend).  The rules say nothing about these either way; cheat and bilk all you like, but don't be surprised if your sins come home to roost in a hurry should you do so.

EDIT: Oh.  Oh, oh, oh.  My operating understanding was still based on the pre-edit rules that you can see in EuchreJack's post, the ones that I saw originally as well.  Well, the present rules aren't technically beyond the norm as far as I know. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 06, 2016, 03:03:46 am
Oddly enough, I figured going along with what Culise was thinking would have been interesting. Still, might be a good idea to get people used to the basic format of how multiplayer games go before I throw curve-balls like that. At least, from the one and a half games I have played in terms of experience. But yeah, for now the rules are going to be baseline, trade agreements are sacred. What would you guys think about only trade agreements made on this thread being sacred instead?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 06, 2016, 04:46:40 am
Alright, edited the above. Still new to running this whole thing. Also, seems all that's left to turn their turn is is Shinuyama, so we should have our next turns emailed to us soon. With that everyone should know how llamaserver works.

Seems Gamersgate is one version behind on Dom4, again ::)

I'll register my copy on steam and get the turn done by tonight.

ed:

I'd prefer the usual way for trades. Ie. all are sacred. Anything else just invites frustration.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 06, 2016, 04:55:29 am
Alright, send me a PM if you need an extension or anything.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 06, 2016, 05:40:23 am
Few notes for our new players:

If you're last to upload a turn, consider waiting for the few minutes it takes for llamaserver to process it and then do your next turn straight away. It helps keep the game moving.

Also, the best hotkey in the game is 'n'. It cycles through your (n)ext idle commander. Very handy way to check up on your scouts and to keep your commanders and mages working.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 06, 2016, 04:22:49 pm
I didn't know about "n", thanks.

I started with just 50+ indies around me, so ... nothing going on yet. #goodstart

Oh hey there hatman-
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 08, 2016, 10:52:18 am
Few notes for our new players:

If you're last to upload a turn, consider waiting for the few minutes it takes for llamaserver to process it and then do your next turn straight away. It helps keep the game moving.

Also, the best hotkey in the game is 'n'. It cycles through your (n)ext idle commander. Very handy way to check up on your scouts and to keep your commanders and mages working.

Thanks, I didn't know that!  All this time, I had been using Nation Overview.  While I probably will continue using Nation Overview in my active games, I might throw some "n" into later games.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 08, 2016, 11:42:02 am
So turn 5, someone is already next to my capital, good times.
Sorry for the delay, did a double turn to make up for it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 08, 2016, 11:56:58 am
I'm just thanking my stars I didn't end up with two nations next to mine.  Time to send off some diplomatic notices, I suppose.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 10, 2016, 08:05:26 am
So I already found 3 4 nations around me, hey guys.

We need more banter or does that only come later?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 10, 2016, 08:28:45 am
Well, at the moment I try not to banter too much since I'm worried I'd give too much away. But yeah, we're only running into other nations around now and soon enough I suppose it would be inevitable. Finding myself in an interesting position at least, heh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 10, 2016, 10:21:42 am
Well I've only spotted a couple of capitals. Little hush hush border discussions, but nothing beyond that at this point.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 10, 2016, 03:40:12 pm
Yeah, hard to banter too much right now without giving stuff away, but I suspect that will soon change. Just found a few people on the last couple turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: AlStar on March 10, 2016, 04:08:02 pm
Yeah, hard to banter too much right now without giving stuff away...
That's actually one of the things I find most annoying about Dominions - I'd love to be able to talk about the stuff I'm trying out, how things are going, what I'm planning for the future... and yeah, you really can't do any of that, because you'd be setting yourself up to get countered by your opponents. Heck, even posting screenshots of a particularly cool/decisive battle can backfire, since you've now just informed everybody what your main army composition looks like.

Theoretically you could talk about it after the game's over, but by the point you've been playing for months, and I, at least, am not the kind of person who keeps notes, so can only give vague, sweeping generalities to how the early/mid game went.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hellheart on March 10, 2016, 05:01:16 pm
Ideally you'll get to know one or two players enough that you can form strong alliances. Sharing basic info and strategies with them can only backfire insomuch as any backstab would be marginally more devastating. Usually the benefit there outweighs the risks, although everyone will keep a few things back since there's no reason to share everything and you can't guarantee that anybody will remain your ally forever.

You can also talk with somebody you know who's not playing in that game. That's what I generally did when I couldn't find a good ally that would talk enough.

After my Lanka win, I feel that good note-taking is essential. Eventually you'll reach a point where your empire has so many sites, so many scattered troops, and so many commanders doing both one-shot and continuous things that you will be forgetting things without notes. It also helps get back into things more quickly after a long break.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 10, 2016, 06:18:40 pm
That's actually one of the things I find most annoying about Dominions - I'd love to be able to talk about the stuff I'm trying out, how things are going, what I'm planning for the future... and yeah, you really can't do any of that, because you'd be setting yourself up to get countered by your opponents. Heck, even posting screenshots of a particularly cool/decisive battle can backfire, since you've now just informed everybody what your main army composition looks like.

Theoretically you could talk about it after the game's over, but by the point you've been playing for months, and I, at least, am not the kind of person who keeps notes, so can only give vague, sweeping generalities to how the early/mid game went.
One of the perks of a disciples game, which I might consider running here once this one slows down or is over maybe. But yeah, a lot of interesting stuff going on my end, and I'm sure a lot of interesting stuff is going on the others end too.

Anyway, seems the year is about to be over, and we should be expecting dormant gods to wake up. I haven't been keeping track of anyone's titles, so this should be interesting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 11, 2016, 04:42:14 am
Well I just asked Shinuyama if they need there capital, cause I was planning on taking that region.

Then I submited my 2h and saw. Diplomacy 10/10

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 11, 2016, 03:20:04 pm
Oh, that's highly amusing.  I hereby rate your diplomancy skills two Panzers up. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 11, 2016, 04:38:26 pm
Someone remind me to stop sending diplomacy BEFORE doing my turn, it just leads to me saying so many stupid things.

Also while building a lot of scouts was stupid, it gives me a lot of insight and being in the center of the map, I shall be giving away priceless intel here.

If your nation name is short - or sounds a lot like Kishin Shinoyama a japanese photographer - you are doing very well, territory wise. #banter

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 11, 2016, 05:31:21 pm
It's not a lot of land, and it's pretty bad land to boot. Plus there's an evil eggspawn near here stinking up the place. I'm barely keeping my mages from falling ill on the spot.

Looking at the bright side, at least I'm far from Asphodel. Having to push back two evil dominions would be a bit much.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 11, 2016, 07:47:09 pm
"Evil eggspawn", really? We're kind of the token minority that practice death magic prudently, unlike your "sinister and bloody cult of bakemono". And really, it's not that our dominion is toxic, it's that it's tropical - if you're bothered by mosquitos, take good care of your scales and they won't be able to bite you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 11, 2016, 07:59:27 pm
Indeed, Vanarus is in accord with Shinuyama regarding the quality of our lands, so far as we can tell.  Wastes and marshes are no kind place for the ilk of oni or chud, and forests are far too scant within the lands of the Rus.  Fortunately, the cold embrace of our mother goddess shall do no harm to the peoples of any lands our dominions touch, unlike the dominions of corrosive heat or the carrion wilds.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 12, 2016, 06:46:13 am
Well, isn't this embarrassing. I was wondering what's taking the turn file so long to get here, turns out I'm the one outstanding on turning a turn instead. Sorry for the wait guys! I'll get my turn done and handed in soon, and follow it up with a second.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 12, 2016, 07:50:50 am
Hey, I'm leading the hall of fame with rando commander#27, thanks to c'tis mass extenction of hall of famers (?).

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 12, 2016, 08:24:09 am
Hmm, things are unfortunately seeming a bit cramped, so it might just be inevitable, bu I still think there's time before something happens. Unfortunately some nations are going to be better at wars than others right now, though I won't name any names. That might put some pressure on things. Right now, I'm keeping myself out of any flare ups if I can help it. So far it just seems like taunting at least.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 12, 2016, 06:23:55 pm
Hey, I'm leading the hall of fame with rando commander#27, thanks to c'tis mass extenction of hall of famers (?).
I kill more mercenaries than I kill my own men! It's beneficial either way!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 13, 2016, 09:47:11 am
Alright, two nations have not submitted their turns and we're about to head towards hosting time in a few hours. I'll extend the deadline by 12 more hours for now, and more if someone can drop by and let me know whether they'd need more time. It is a Sunday I suppose, so things tend to be a bit slower.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 13, 2016, 11:59:12 am
Woops! Sorry about that, thought I would be up in time to do my turn. Shouldn't need another extension, I am not at my computer now but I will be in the next hour or so. Thanks for the extension.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 13, 2016, 12:04:25 pm
Alright, take your time. You still have over ten hours, and if there's anything I can understand it's sleeping in on a Sunday, though in my case it's Saturdays that I sleep in on.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 13, 2016, 01:35:21 pm
I was hoping we could do another turn before the work-heavy mondays
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 13, 2016, 01:42:09 pm
It'd be nice to have more turns at the weekends, but it's also going to be the time where you're more likely to be hanging out with family or friends and loved ones, or hell, church or something. I'm honestly more confident in my ability to turn turns in on weekdays than on weekends, not sure about the others.

Edit: Heading to bed, so gonna add just 2 more hours in case I cannot get back on to check if anyone asked for an extension. If anyone does ask for One, Delta Foxtrot should have the admin password, so make sure they know that you need one, but I also should be able to check once I get up in the morning. If I don't get any requests for one, we'll just have stale turns this time around.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 14, 2016, 03:53:12 am
Well, while waiting, here is a 105% accurate map of everything for ya'lls planning purposes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 14, 2016, 06:26:37 am
Ahem.

You might want to replace more Shinuyama with Marignon. I also spot a few other critical errors there but those aren't misrepresenting my meager realm.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 14, 2016, 07:52:12 am
Good heavens, that makes me almost look big.  Aye, I think you've got "more Shinuyama" and "Marignon" reversed, though I can't say more about if Shinuyama really extends that far east.  My development has been rather poor, overall.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 14, 2016, 08:00:24 am
Shinuyama borders me, yes. It extends that far east. It's now in fact west.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 14, 2016, 10:42:59 am
I didn't see any of Marignon yet, so yeah your prob. right
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 14, 2016, 11:57:30 am
Jeez, starting to feel real cramped in here. Yeah I am kinda in the "more Shinuyama?" area, and the bottom left "Marignon?" is more Vanarus than Shinuyama I believe.

Looks like Ulm/Vanarus has got some room to breath though if that is accurate. And I think I am the only person not bordering Oceania's ocean?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 14, 2016, 03:23:34 pm
I can confirm that part of marignon is north of me, but the second thing you've labeled marignon is actually a pale shade of blue, apart from the extra shinuyama bits.

Edit: blue, not cyan, so van not arco.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 14, 2016, 04:01:20 pm
And I think I am the only person not bordering Oceania's ocean?

Vanarus only borders me onland, but yeah, I'm very close to everyone but then again, the water makes me a little further away from everyone.

So hi, person i'm most likly not going to war for a long time.


Also guys please, try to do the double-turn thing if you're the last.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 16, 2016, 03:29:57 pm
I really need to keep trade invoices for my own trades to keep my sanity I think. I thought I had not sent in my part of a trade. Then I thought I had not recieved my half of the trade. Downloaded some files just to make sure. This is not even a large amount of trades. Is there some sorta history button I can press to give me that sorta info? Because that would be really nice. I have no idea I can go from calm to anxiety prone.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 16, 2016, 04:33:28 pm
Eh, just make your trade partner do the bookkeeping.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 17, 2016, 11:48:52 am
Alright, Marignon and Shinuyama still need to send turns in, but we've only got about 10 hours left before Llama forces hosts. So I'll possibly delay things before I head to bed in some hours, giving us a 48 hour turn. Now would be a good time to ask if people would prefer longer turns I figured. So far no one has stalled, but we're heading towards two things which might slow some folks down for a bit. For one thing, spring break is around the corner, and for another, we're heading towards the later stages of the game. So go ahead and lemme know what people's thoughts are on moving towards 48 hour turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 17, 2016, 12:38:26 pm
I've been happy with the turn timer thus far, but if people need it upped I'm fine with whatever. Also I'll be doing this turn a bit late but still within original deadline.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 17, 2016, 03:55:25 pm
If other people want to move to 48 hour turns I am okay with that, I don't really mind either way. Spring break won't change my schedule, I just gotta be careful about those weekend turns from now on ^^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 18, 2016, 03:05:48 am
I'm fine with fast and what, i'm supposed to be out of early game?


E: *Saw some lovly big battles this turn, glad I'm not on the receiving end.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 18, 2016, 11:14:47 am
Yeah, some wars are brewing up looks like. Spotted some interesting developments a few turns back. I don't think Asphodel is going to be around for too much longer. I have no idea if they kicked up the reanimation engine, but they seem to be losing ground fast.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 18, 2016, 11:36:23 am
Asphodel, MA Ermor, few others, people don't like to play nice against those nations. It's hard to find friends when your very existence actively hurts others.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 18, 2016, 11:56:23 am
It also doesn't help that Asphodel built a grand total of 0 forts since the game started. Even without the toxic dominion, they would have had to be amazing at diplomacy to survive.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 18, 2016, 12:01:56 pm
Man, you guys are making me wish I had bordered asphodel now. But yes, I guess it was a perfect storm kind of situation. At the very least domkill nations would want a ton of forts to make attacking them seem like the worst idea ever, as supplies run out and sieging units starve. That would at least push back any serious incursion to the point where someone is producing supply providing items before anyone would consider it feasible to attack.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 18, 2016, 03:44:30 pm
The lot of you are either honourless collaborating scum or vile opportunistic vermin.

Either way, I dig it 8)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 18, 2016, 03:55:06 pm
Hey. This means that you know exactly how we'll act. That's definitely a big advantage in any game, right? Right?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 18, 2016, 04:45:14 pm
Well, I feel slightly bad for being part of the vile opportunistic vermin. Maybe?

How do the various wars go? Did Shinuyama get bigger, again?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 18, 2016, 07:55:30 pm
I don't believe so, but I have a distinct feeling I'm about to get smaller.
*glances at the large number of armies growing on all my borders save west*
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 19, 2016, 03:21:44 pm
Looks like we're waiting on marignon. I'll add in a delay of 9 hours for now. Otherwise good job guys, we've not had a single stall all game long. Which is nice since the last game I played over at Desura had all of... 14 stalls by this point, most of it in the team I was in. That was not a fun experience.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 19, 2016, 07:53:00 pm
For the record I would have gotten my turn in without the extension  :P Thanks for being courteous though I appreciate it. And from what I can tell we all fall into the opportunistic vermin camp haha.

Whew, well at least it looks like I will not be the first person out, so doing better than I expected. I am pretty scared going into the later game, I don't even know what I am doing early so now I am totally winging it.

I think you guys know a little bit more than me and ashpodel lol, no idea that they would be an early target because of their mechanics or anything like that. Well, its all practice for next time!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 19, 2016, 09:18:20 pm
For the record I would have gotten my turn in without the extension  :P Thanks for being courteous though I appreciate it. And from what I can tell we all fall into the opportunistic vermin camp haha.

Whew, well at least it looks like I will not be the first person out, so doing better than I expected. I am pretty scared going into the later game, I don't even know what I am doing early so now I am totally winging it.

I think you guys know a little bit more than me and ashpodel lol, no idea that they would be an early target because of their mechanics or anything like that. Well, its all practice for next time!

Late game knowledge must be hard-fought.  Unlike the early game (indies are indies, right?), the late game with human opponents has no substitute.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 20, 2016, 03:33:12 am
For the record I would have gotten my turn in without the extension  :P Thanks for being courteous though I appreciate it. And from what I can tell we all fall into the opportunistic vermin camp haha.

Whew, well at least it looks like I will not be the first person out, so doing better than I expected. I am pretty scared going into the later game, I don't even know what I am doing early so now I am totally winging it.

I think you guys know a little bit more than me and ashpodel lol, no idea that they would be an early target because of their mechanics or anything like that. Well, its all practice for next time!
It was cutting it close since it would have hosted around when I would have already been in deep sleep, so yeah. Besides, everyone was on point in terms of submitting turns, so it would have been a shame to have our first stall here.

As far as you're winging things go, I won't know until I get better battle reports, but looks like you're relying pretty heavily on your crossbows, so that's going well. You can do some more interesting things with that, but I'll leave you to figure it out. I personally think that Marignon has a solid army, if a little expensive.

Asphodel though... wow, that was a beat down. Safe to say that's likely over. I was hoping Vangelic would have been more active on here, so at least someone could have given them some advice on how to play them. Asphodel is unfortunately square in the advanced nations to play. Come to think of it, someone should put a tiering list for how hard a nation is to play.

But yeah, good luck to everyone.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 20, 2016, 07:09:05 am
Crossbow swarms are good, but vulnerable to archer decoys and completely nullified by Arrow Fend. Strong early on, increasingly lacklustre as counter measures are utilized and researched.

___

None of this is meant as a clear best to worst ranking. Dominions is more complex than that. Some nations have a higher skill floor to do ok with while others might have a lower skill ceiling but it's all so very dependent on map state and game phase we're on.

Ulm and Marignon are fairly easy to do ok with. Both have obvious, straightforward strengths. Pangaea is easy and Asphodel is basically dom killing D version of them, hard to say how much that swings things either way. Rest I'd rank as above simple, going from simplest to hardest C'tis->Shinuyama/Vanarus/Arcoscephale.

Never played and rarely fought against water nations so I can't really place Oceania.

C'tis and Arco have obvious focus points (death and astral respectively) but Arco is squishier and early-mid S is trickier to use devastatingly (for me at least) than early-mid D. Shinuyama and Vanarus have national rainbow mages and I've never been very good with those, give me a strong E or D focus any day. I reckon a good player with a plan could wipe the floor using either of them though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 20, 2016, 07:13:01 am
Vangelic has stated in pm he prefers ingame communication, which i used with him, but there is the obvious downsides to that.

I'm durdling around, I'm aware I have no chance of winning this, but I can certainly have real influence on who wins.

First time as Oceania, btw - but they are fun, since they are basically just underwater Pangaea, which is the one other race I played in a MP, back in dom3.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 09:27:53 am
Asphodel though... wow, that was a beat down. Safe to say that's likely over.

Haha no. They still have an army rampaging around despite having a distinct lack of forts. Until their gold reserves run out or they get dom killed that's going to be a pain in my side for a long time.

Pangaea is easy and Asphodel is basically dom killing D version of them, hard to say how much that swings things either way.

Well after 20~ turns their capital is down to almost 15k population, and the rest of their former lands seem to have even less than that. I think it's safe to say that the dom-kill means that Asphodel is on a timer as far as expansion goes. If they want to keep on using their living troops and mages they have to keep expanding and conquering new lands before their gold runs out. Admittedly they could survive on their summoned mages alone, but that takes a lot of gems which they lack the income for. So... Yeah. I'd definitely rank them as a much harder nation as Pan, given all of the extra stuff that you have to balance and worry about.

Give me a strong E or D focus any day.

I certainly can't disagree with that. Give me a fort-mage with useful paths like E2 or D2 and I'm pretty much happy. Anything above that is usually a bonus.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 20, 2016, 02:54:32 pm
So c'tis and Shinuyama are at war, but both have armys with 3 digits of troops just chilling far off the frontline?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 20, 2016, 03:10:57 pm
Fighting a three front war does that to you, don't know what C'tis' excuse is. Could be those raiders I had jumping about. Either way, having undefended borders is risky. C'tis is (barely) on the winning side of an early major war. That makes him dangerous, but also puts him in danger. He's going to want to watch his back. Not that all defence is necessarily a big expensive garrison.

Especially if those garrisons are upkeep free longdead horsemen :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 03:23:07 pm
They look like City Guards and Heavy Infantry to me. If there's any undead horsemen loitering about, I definitely can't see them. I'm guessing that he has the City Guards as a defense against sudden invasions (because they count as extra people when defending forts) and the Heavy Infantry are being churned out to head to the front. Or I could be completely wrong and they're actually gearing up for something else. Who knows?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 20, 2016, 03:31:57 pm
If you like using resource heavy troops it's a decent idea to pump them out every turn simply because you can't mass them as needed like you can lighter troops. It's why I have a nice bunch of samurai ogres doodling about. At 30r a pop I can't exactly replace them if they decide to drop dead en masse.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 03:47:48 pm
City Guard are only 10r and Heavy Infantry are 15r. I'm 95% certain that they don't count as resource intensive. You'd definitely need a couple of turns to pump a ton of them out but... Eh. What do I know. I'm MA Ulm. Resources are no problem for me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 20, 2016, 06:06:26 pm
Some of those heavy troops are because the game decided to rudely vomit dozens of indy vampires on my nice tidy border. As opposed, I guess, to my untidy moving border with Shinuyama. But city guards are great for holding forts, yes. They're also resource cheap, which can be an incentive to pick heavier troops over them to spend gold better elsewhere - also the only real reason to buy falchioneers over elite warriors given a choice.

Longdead horsemen are a very efficient summon, patroller, raider et cetera. I have them because they are versatile, cheap and readily available. The opportunity cost at this stage in the game is low.

Regarding assessment of nations:
Vanarus has more focused summons to compliment it's national rainbows, and can make demons and thunderspam. It has simple tools on top of it's rainbow tools, excellent research and can do very well with high S or N on its' god. It's a fairly powerful nation, which should scale well with finesse, but almost always goes without some of its' summons. It is super thirsty for gold, especially if you use the forest wizards, but can use and find most gems, and develop large summoned armies overnight as a result.

Marignon will set you on fire, then shoot you. Later they will use extensive astral magic. Their national angels are hard to kill and remedy their otherwise lackluster path diversity, but ever air and earth spell marignon gets to cast needs to count. They are regarded as the worst luck nation in the game on count of their small range of paths - they flatly will never use nature, water and in most cases death, but with good mages who can lead 50 men each, they can overcome poor diversity by great volume of magic.

Asphodel surprised me. Usually freespawn and D magic beats crossbows and MR-Negates weapons and spells put the hurt on the Ulmish, but they just folded. I'd have loved their cap, and my high MR lizards could likely have taken it, but geography failed me.

Oceania are Pangaea with water instead of earth, an underwater start instead of the best berserker if not best unit in the game, no maenads, and far less unrest. Still strong, not rushable, but likely a downgrade. They have a favourite school of research to stick with, which helps.

Ulm has most of the best elemental spells in the game, a solid troopline, and poor ability to use or withstand sorcery. Everyone knows their strengths and weaknesses, most can guess their scales, and they make an excellent introduction to the power of cross-path magic.

Arco will mind hunt everyone they end up fighting. Don't leave the house without astral magicians. Elephants without any means of flight will become useless sooner rather than later. They do crosspaths about as well as ulm, but the healers and mind hunters are their most unique power and they will wield them gleefully. They might be the only nation that wants to fight vanarus in the lategame. Arco will have an awake pretender, also to go with the healers.

Shinuyama scales with mountains. Their best raiders come from the mountains even without forts, and they need temples and labs in those mountains to spam shaman. The bakemono sorcerer looks great, but is ancient, limiting his power in battle, and slow to recruit mages for nearly 400 gold are somewhat painful. Uba's are pretty amazing, though. WN is a good crosspath, WD is a good crosspath, d2 is great, w2 is w4 if it has to be. That's scratching the iceberg, and unless I win this war against them I'll not crack it open.

C'tis is enchantment five's greatest hits, with some extras. Your magicians are good, you have an assassin who makes skeletons in battle, your basic troops have MR 12, your dominion makes you rich and others poor/hagridden, but knowing exactly what to research before your first war is likely your single biggest strength here.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 07:15:11 pm
Asphodel surprised me. Usually freespawn and D magic beats crossbows and MR-Negates weapons and spells put the hurt on the Ulmish, but they just folded. I'd have loved their cap, and my high MR lizards could likely have taken it, but geography failed me.

It turns out that freespawn and MR-Negates spells aren't all that effective when you throw enough men at them. Who knew? :u Also flails. Flails everywhere. Can't recommend them enough against freespawn. It's like a hot knife going through butter.

FAKEEDIT: Honestly, looking at the stats of the manikins they're much less amazing than I thought they were. Your basic manikin would have a good chance at being one-shotted by a dude with a spear if it wasn't for the piercing resistance (~37.8% if my math is right), due to a lack of defence and no protection. To top it off their HP isn't all that amazing, except for the rarer kinds of freespawn (who suffer from the fact that they're rarer). If it wasn't for their rock-steady morale and the fact that they're 'free' (beyond the pop-kill aspect) they'd be pretty garbage. Obviously that's why you buff them with magic and use a fuckton of them but... Attrition will still be quite horrible.

I'm honestly not sure why I expected things to be different.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on March 20, 2016, 07:30:12 pm
Stun vines?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 08:12:25 pm
What about them? Manikins have 5~8 attack and vines have a -1 modifier on top of that. Not to mention the fact that the attack is MR-Negate. Unless there's some kind of dickery where the stun activates even if they fail the attack roll (which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest), they're still looking at a less than 35% chance to hit and affect an Ulmish flail-dude. Of course the chance will be better than that thanks to defense reductions, but we're talking about a soldier who has 5 Defense and 9 MR here (along with two attacks that have at least a 50% chance to splatter the manikin). If that is not an optimal target for sleep vines to work their magic on then I don't know what is.

...

Though looking into even more, the high armour of Ulm means that once a soldier is knocked unconscious the average manikin is going to have a hard time actually doing damage. Most of them have claw and bite attacks that have a less than 20% chance to beat their protection value and actually do anything. I wouldn't be surprised if getting stunlocked and pushed over 200 fatigue is what would eventually kill those soldiers.

Yeah. What you should take away from this all is that manikins are bad and they should feel bad. I'm not sure if the average longdead is better than the average manikin but longdead have average attack/defence and actual weapons, which indicates to me that they should be at least deadlier. At least manikins can be safe in the knowledge that they're generally better than soulless, which isn't saying much. Soulless are just 15 HP of sadness and disappointment, except for the ones with armour and weapons. Those guys are just 15 HP of apathy and mild disappointment.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 20, 2016, 09:08:55 pm
Asphodel surprised me. Usually freespawn and D magic beats crossbows and MR-Negates weapons and spells put the hurt on the Ulmish, but they just folded. I'd have loved their cap, and my high MR lizards could likely have taken it, but geography failed me.

It turns out that freespawn and MR-Negates spells aren't all that effective when you throw enough men at them. Who knew? :u Also flails. Flails everywhere. Can't recommend them enough against freespawn. It's like a hot knife going through butter.

Flails would do it, I suppose, but a wall of freespawn typically isn't there to not die and win - expecting it to may have been their problem - it's there to fatigue your troops while the mages summon the next horde of skeletons, and the next, until your quarrels and arrows are spent, your troops are exhausted and your mages are sleeping and off script. Then troops that cost money/mage turns come in fresh and mop up.

The particular spell I was thinking of that I'd worry about with aspho's paths and ulm's MR is shadow blast, and they might not have had any evo research.

Edit: useless bags of HP like soulless are great in the right places, because guess what spells like to target? A pity, as far as ruthlessly exploiting the AI goes, that there are no soulless archers.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 20, 2016, 10:35:53 pm
I'll give you one guess as to what Asphodel was trying to do. Or what they weren't trying to do. Also keep in mind that they had only one fort and thus were extremely limited in the amount of mages and research that they had.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: AlStar on March 20, 2016, 11:50:11 pm
I think that the lesson that should be learned here is - try not to ever have just one fort. Going broke because your only castle is under siege is bad. Being able to only recruit a single fort mage per turn is bad. Avoid these things - especially if you can make palisades, because they're both cheap and build quickly - there's no excuse.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 02:05:20 am
Honestly, yeah. And if Asphodel is anything like Ermor, their rarest freespawn would likely be at forts. I also did a bit of research and apparently temples in forests also gets you better quality freespawn and more freespawn, according to Kristoffer (hope I spelled that right). But yeah, It's better to have a little bit of land and some forts than a lot of land and one. Kinda wish I did have faster forts, but better forts are good. More admin means more effective forts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 21, 2016, 04:04:23 am
Learning a lot already this game.

So is piercing/blunt/whatever resistance a single ability that allways applys 30% ish reduction or does it scale in anyway depending on who has it?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 04:12:24 am
Blunt/Piercing/Slash Resistance is a 50% reduction in damage... I want to say before the attack hits. If it's not that then it's after. Either way they are pretty damn great, assuming that the enemy army has a lot of attacks with only a single type of damage. Like, say, an Marigon army of crossbows and pike.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 04:57:23 am
Pierce says taking half damage, so I'm assuming how it works is protection is first subtracted from damage and the result is halved. Oh, right, I also think USEC pointed out a while back that manikins only do fatigue damage, so it makes it hard to damage units, so it's worth pointing out that the higher fatigue is, the more likely a critical hit will be scored. Critical hits treat protection as half of what it is, so even Ulm's armies are susceptible to it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 05:06:33 am
Some Manikins have only Sleep Vines which do fatigue damage. Most of them additionally have claws/teeth to inflict actual damage, though with their average strength it still won't be much since claws/teeth are terrible weapons. Admittedly I didn't know that critical hits were a thing in Dom 4 so... Yeah. Manikins not completely useless against flaildudes then. Just mostly useless. After all, their chances of actually hitting someone and beating their MR score are still not that great. Plus Full Plate of Ulm is pretty ridiculous and can shrug off crossbow fire half of the time. If I were actually using them then critical hits would be much less fearsome.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 05:27:54 am
Yeah, the exact mechanics check for a critical every hit. Normally this is a DRN check trying to beat a 2, so about 2.7% ish of attacks end up as criticals. Every 15 fatigue subtracts one from the DRN, so the chances at 15 fatigue are 8~%, then at 30 it's 17~%. Basically, this is part of the reason that cold provinces are hell on C'tis, as more and more attacks are effectively turning into armor piercing attacks faster than it's happening on the opposing side. So yeah, I wouldn't count on fatigue alone to take care of troops, but at the same time it can do some particularly nasty things when coupled with hard hitters.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 05:30:22 am
Definitely. And no, that sound you just heard is totally not the sound of me researching Curse of Stones. Definitely not. Whatever made you think that?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 21, 2016, 08:05:10 am
Marignon didn't do a double turn, so we're waiting for him again - as for Asphodel, I'm not sure he/she is still playing activly?

Whats the best size2 unit one can get with water/air/nature/earth paths?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 21, 2016, 11:24:52 am
Marignon didn't do a double turn, so we're waiting for him again - as for Asphodel, I'm not sure he/she is still playing activly?

Well I was not the last person to put my turn in so that would have been hard for me to do ^^ And I think asphodel will still put in a turn, I'll ask. Will submit in next few hours
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 11:29:00 am
Asphodel does know that they can go AI, right? I mean, they could turn things around and win but that seems very unlikely to me. Going AI would speed up the game a bit and enable them to go do other things. Totally not bitter about them drawing things out. Totally not.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 21, 2016, 11:33:10 am
Asphodel does know that they can go AI, right? I mean, they could turn things around and win but that seems very unlikely to me. Going AI would speed up the game a bit and enable them to go do other things. Totally not bitter about them drawing things out. Totally not.

Haha I will tell them, but I don't think you will be getting any relief that way. Knowing them, they will make this as painful as possible.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 11:34:30 am
It's less painful and more annoying. Eventually they'll run out of gold and get ganked but... I kinda want to do shit with my military instead of chasing them around everywhere you know?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 21, 2016, 11:36:33 am
Whats the best size2 unit one can get with water/air/nature/earth paths?

It was a few patches ago, but Naiad Warriors (http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=spell&panes=spell+684@20@5&showids=1&itemq=rune&unittype=2&unitnat=1&spellq=naia) were/are pretty good units by themselves and one of the more mage-turn efficient summons to boot. I usually prefer to put my gems into battle spells so I'm not too well versed in great summon units.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 11:51:49 am
Well, for commanders, you can get the Bishop fish for a sacred 3 priest if you're willing to hand an amulet of the fish over to them. There's also summonig the worm that walks, which nets you an immortal nature 3 mage that recuperates. Slap some nature boosters on them and you won't need to worry about your globals going offline assuming you keep them in your domain.

As for units, there's not exactly much to choose from that are limited to size 2. You've got clockwork soldiers, mechanical soldier (an upgrade), gargoyles, clay men... if I had to pick one to pick I'd go with lamias though. 5 nature gems gets you 5 lamias, which is okay for 50% regen troops with a second form. Issues would be cold blooded.

Anyway, yeah, I guess we'll wait on Marignon. I can swap Asphodel to AI if requested from vangelic or jking. I'd rather not have them NOT rampage at this point, heh, it'd be too anti-climactic if they just rolled over.

fakeedit: wow, thread had no replies and all of a sudden all the replies.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 21, 2016, 11:52:31 am
Asphodel does know that they can go AI, right? I mean, they could turn things around and win but that seems very unlikely to me. Going AI would speed up the game a bit and enable them to go do other things. Totally not bitter about them drawing things out. Totally not.

Haha I will tell them, but I don't think you will be getting any relief that way. Knowing them, they will make this as painful as possible.

Being a Pangea offshoot, they're probably an ideal guerilla nation.  They could probably come back (after all, returning from the dead is really their thing, right?)

Not to ruin their fun, but:
Dominions ProTip: it is often easier to Domkill someone then Actualkill them.  Build your temples, fortify, and let the whimpering dogs lie.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 21, 2016, 11:59:43 am
At size 2, I'd agree on that; Awe +4 is decent enough, even at 2 gems per individual Kydnid.  That said, it depends on what you need them for.  While a good core, if you're looking for cheap chaff, Kydnids are awfully expensive.  Vine Men make great chaff, especially with forged items that boost the number you get (Ivy Crowns and Crown of the Ivy King); they'll soak up arrows and evocations so your expensive soldiers don't, as long as you back them up with something that can turn "do not lose" into "win" (this is the issue with Asphodel freespawn discussed earlier).  Lamias are a touch expensive (at worst, 1 gem to one Lamia), but regenerate and are good against someone who's spitting out point-die evocations since they have a second form; if they get hit by a Gift, possibly from Heaven, they'll simply change forms, and the excess damage is wiped clean.  On the Air front, Black Hawks are useful for patrols, though they are worthless for defense.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 12:07:34 pm
I can swap Asphodel to AI if requested from vangelic or jking. I'd rather not have them NOT rampage at this point, heh, it'd be too anticlimactic if they just rolled over.

Except they're down to only a single army, no forts or way to get more troops/income, and are being pursued by my larger and more powerful force. I have a bunch of Inquisitors tearing down their dominion as quick as they can. They've already been rolled over and can no longer be unfucked. To me it seems like dragging this out is pretty anticlimactic. But then again, totally not bitter or anything. Totally not. This is sarcasm, by the way, in case you couldn't tell.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on March 21, 2016, 12:19:32 pm
> no way to get more troops
What about freespawn?

The longer they tie up your forces, the more it inconveniences you and presents an opportunity for your neighbors to invade you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 12:37:35 pm
That's a very good question. It depends on whether freespawn come in on the recruitment phase (which occurs before movement and thus can't be picked up) or on the dominion effects phase (which occurs afterward movement and can be picked up next turn).

Mind you this is all a moot point since I've got Inquisitors tearing up Asphodel's dominion and their army is nowhere near their former lands. The chances of them actually getting down far enough to figure this problem out are pretty much 0.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 01:06:14 pm
Lamias are a touch expensive (at worst, 1 gem to one Lamia), but regenerate and are good against someone who's spitting out point-die evocations since they have a second form; if they get hit by a Gift, possibly from Heaven, they'll simply change forms, and the excess damage is wiped clean.
Unfortunately, a recent patch changed it so that if the damage a creature takes is more than the hp pool of both forms combined they die right out.

I can swap Asphodel to AI if requested from vangelic or jking. I'd rather not have them NOT rampage at this point, heh, it'd be too anticlimactic if they just rolled over.

Except they're down to only a single army, no forts or way to get more troops/income, and are being pursued by my larger and more powerful force. I have a bunch of Inquisitors tearing down their dominion as quick as they can. They've already been rolled over and can no longer be unfucked. To me it seems like dragging this out is pretty anticlimactic. But then again, totally not bitter or anything. Totally not. This is sarcasm, by the way, in case you couldn't tell.
Look, I need to torment everyone sooner or later. But yeah, seriously, I don't think this sounds like a solved problem to me on your end until it goes away, heh. I mean, you have a solution, but how long it takes is completely part of it. Not gonna give you a free pass over that heh.

Addendum: not that I care so much to extend the deadline for submissions now. No point in delaying the main show for a side show.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 21, 2016, 03:20:59 pm
Look, I need to torment everyone sooner or later. But yeah, seriously, I don't think this sounds like a solved problem to me on your end until it goes away, heh. I mean, you have a solution, but how long it takes is completely part of it. Not gonna give you a free pass over that heh.

Well, it's kind of a moot point now. :v
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 03:37:42 pm
Well, rest in peace Asphodel. And hopefully Vangellic enjoyed this game. Sorry if it was a bit too much of a brutal beatdown! Though yeah. We have our first elimination. And congrats on your first victory, since it seemed you carried the brunt of the charge there.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 21, 2016, 03:55:27 pm
Well, desure is down so most of my google's questions currently hit 404 sites, ugh.

RIP Asphodel.

I see that c'tis has begun its sieges, lets see how things work out. Overall the situation might be the most tense right now, with the conquest phase over (mostly?) and most getting ready for pvp.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2016, 04:04:20 pm
C'tis has been sieging the same fort for the better part of the last year. Seems they're stuck in a limbo where Shinuyama sends relief forces only to be killed by C'tis, while C'tis can no longer siege and so they need to ferry troops, until Shinuyama brings the next relief force along.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 21, 2016, 04:42:11 pm
I have been painfully reminded of the importance of a research plan. Troops are fine and dandy against indies but you really need some extra oomph for PVP.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on March 21, 2016, 05:46:48 pm
Regarding sieges, 9 base morale is starting to hurt. But I have lizard kings, summons, longdead et cetera, so it shouldn't continue to hurt for much longer.
Regarding research plans, they win games. So I've already dropped part of mine over an exciting indy mage. Can't wait to reap the results of that brilliant scheme.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on March 21, 2016, 06:16:53 pm
Editing Indy mages can win games too, you just need a new plan.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 04:48:04 am
I have been painfully reminded of the importance of a research plan. Troops are fine and dandy against indies but you really need some extra oomph for PVP.
Yup. Seeing as you're already hit the mainstay of C'tis you need to figure what shinuyama can do well at least. Seems an interesting nation of rainbow mages at the very least, but not sure how to best leverage that.

Edit: Well, looks like llamaserver has some weirdness when a player is knocked out. Asphodel should take a reminder to send a 2h file in anyway, but it's not going to be a huge loss if the hosting time is missed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 22, 2016, 11:42:25 am
So I just now learned that admin increases your income, I always figured it just "draws in resources" that effectivly.

Maybe I should have build forts on high income provinces, eh... : / the more you know ~
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 22, 2016, 12:05:45 pm
Well, the problem is that the admin bonus isn't a massive boost to gold production. I want to say that someone did the math once and figured out that the bonus gold pays for the Fort in +20 turns but... I can't remember exactly. It's definitely way too long to be worth spamming forts everywhere though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 22, 2016, 12:07:53 pm
I seem to recall some math a long time ago about it not being worth it. If someone happens to link that or correct me, cool. But basically building a higher level fort for admin alone takes a lot of turns to pay itself back under ideal circumstances. Game might not last a lot of turns, and you most likely won't have ideal circumstances to work with. Between rituals, raiders and armies marching about, lots of things will tank your forts' income.

Not a bad idea to build on farms though. You're less likely to lose that provinces while fighting. Except farms have less gems and resources. And sometimes geopolitical landscape just doesn't agree with that farmland fort. It's all up to whatever you value most.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 12:11:54 pm
Well, forts in high resource areas are also good. Having a fort gives you access to the "hidden half" of the resources in a province, and draws from touching provinces (exception to the touching provinces thing. Sea forts do not interact with land provinces, land forts do not with sea provinces). Hidden resources are first drawn from the hidden half, then from the available half. I believe admin also helps distribute better supplies in an area...

But yes, 50 admin is 150% income instead of 100%

Though yeah. It's a lot of money and turns spent. Generally, you get more of an effect with scales I think.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 22, 2016, 01:31:05 pm
Oh dear, it looks like Shinuyama and Arcosphale have decided to target me. I did kind of have a feeling it was coming.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 01:39:14 pm
Nothing personal! Well, okay, I was targeting those lands you grabbed so damnit! Maybe a little personal. Out of everyone I've had dealings with, I've talked to you the least so it's pretty threatening seeing an army that big so near my borders out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 22, 2016, 01:55:02 pm
Yeah, we both kind of seemed to be racing for that throne, to be honest if you got there first I might have done the same thing haha.

Did not expect it to happen at the same time as Shinuyama though, but looking back I did take a lot of his stuff. I probably deserve this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 22, 2016, 01:58:03 pm
Yeah, we both kind of seemed to be racing for that throne, to be honest if you got there first I might have done the same thing haha.

Did not expect it to happen at the same time as Shinuyama though, but looking back I did take a lot of his stuff. I probably deserve this.

MP 101: Don't attack alone, gang up!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 02:00:49 pm
To be fair, I did not even know Shinuyama was in on it. You just seemed to be in a momentarily vulnerable position.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 22, 2016, 02:52:42 pm
Nothing personal! Well, okay, I was targeting those lands you grabbed so damnit! Maybe a little personal. Out of everyone I've had dealings with, I've talked to you the least so it's pretty threatening seeing an army that big so near my borders out of nowhere.
Yeah.  I've been looking rather askance at both Ulm and Marignon for that reason.  There's just something about seeing over 150 soldiers in a province when you're the only neighbor that could possibly merit such a troop deployment. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 22, 2016, 03:18:28 pm
Sorry about that, Vanarus. It's hard not to spam soldiers from every fort, even if it's right on your borders. Can you not hold it against me?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2016, 03:21:45 pm
Everyone but asphodel is in looks like, I'll force a host.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 22, 2016, 03:44:44 pm
Oh dear, it looks like Shinuyama and Arcosphale have decided to target me. I did kind of have a feeling it was coming.

ME targeting YOU? I guess that's one way to put it :P

Not that I agree, seeing how I'm in the wrong end of an opportunistic 3v1. But I do like how quickly that turned into a free-for-all. Now all we need is some Chud to really show us how to party.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 23, 2016, 03:13:51 am
Ulm and Vanarus both are making doom stacks - and I'm the border. Time to build a wall?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 23, 2016, 08:11:59 am
Sorry about that, Vanarus. It's hard not to spam soldiers from every fort, even if it's right on your borders. Can you not hold it against me?
I'll try not to.  Indeed, that was my assumption due to the fact that it was the only major force near my border at the moment, apart from what's regularly moving south; if you were going to launch a sneak attack, you'd be moving more forces up to hit me all at once.  That's the only reason I didn't contact you privately two turns ago asking what you were planning. 

Plus, as Oceania just stated, I'm doing the same thing on their border.  It's one of the awkward consequences of having precisely one fort that's *not* a border province, and that only because a player's capital circle is typically the next-best thing to sacrosanct short of invasion.  My apologies to you as well, ThtblovesDF.  I can assure you that I have no designs on Oceania at the moment. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 23, 2016, 10:16:01 am
's cool, I don't have any designs either, nor much of a plan. For one, last turn i set my research goal, then moved a researcher like a scrub and now I'm 5 RP short of a tech I needed, wraghabla
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: AlStar on March 23, 2016, 10:39:22 am
's cool, I don't have any designs either, nor much of a plan. For one, last turn i set my research goal, then moved a researcher like a scrub and now I'm 5 RP short of a tech I needed, wraghabla
I wish I could say that you've done it once, you'll never make that mistake again, but I assure you that you totally will. The way I deal with it is waiting until the very end of my turn to mess with the research settings... and I'll still sometimes end up 5 RP short - usually because I'll remember at the last moment that I wanted to forge something, or move a mage to site search.

Honestly, there should be some mechanism to allow us to lock in a number of RPs, so that you can say "I need exactly 1,000 RP going to here, and all the rest should go over there. If one of my mages decides to do something else, make sure you take away from all the other things before you touch that 1,000 RP."
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 23, 2016, 04:11:33 pm
...OK.  Ulm, I love you and you've been a peaceful neighbour thus far, but for what possible reason do you need to maintain almost 300 soldiers on our border?  You've mentioned recruitment, but you've been systematically doubling the number of troops there and you've completely stopped withdrawing them.   When I said I was looking at it a bit askance before?  I'm now past that.  Consider this a formal request to withdraw your forces from our shared border.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 23, 2016, 04:24:47 pm
Huh. According to my records I've only got 150~ men there. You probably just got a bad scouting report, but I will move some men away from our border. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 23, 2016, 04:32:54 pm
Something else people might not know: Scouting error ranges from 50% to 200% of what the actual unit count is.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on March 23, 2016, 04:43:28 pm
Yeah, 200% of 150 is 300 after all. Either way they'll be gone next turn and replaced with more recruits so don't worry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 23, 2016, 06:13:10 pm
...OK.  Ulm, I love you and you've been a peaceful neighbour thus far, but for what possible reason do you need to maintain almost 300 soldiers on our border?  You've mentioned recruitment, but you've been systematically doubling the number of troops there and you've completely stopped withdrawing them.   When I said I was looking at it a bit askance before?  I'm now past that.  Consider this a formal request to withdraw your forces from our shared border.

Ulm shows about 100 - 150 for me, so your scouts might be off?

It would be cool if one could pillage or attack specific parts of the province  i.e. damage to supplys / income / resources / population.

E: News from the front, our asian friends have started to retake territory with a medium sized army of "dudes with spears", but C'tis already has a army of longdead riders in its backpocket, will the reach of the spears be enough? Watching with greedy eyes from the borders is - every other nation. Show weakness, get consumed.

Marignon, let your flames guide you to your turn!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: EuchreJack on March 24, 2016, 11:42:17 am
's cool, I don't have any designs either, nor much of a plan. For one, last turn i set my research goal, then moved a researcher like a scrub and now I'm 5 RP short of a tech I needed, wraghabla
I wish I could say that you've done it once, you'll never make that mistake again, but I assure you that you totally will. The way I deal with it is waiting until the very end of my turn to mess with the research settings... and I'll still sometimes end up 5 RP short - usually because I'll remember at the last moment that I wanted to forge something, or move a mage to site search.

Honestly, there should be some mechanism to allow us to lock in a number of RPs, so that you can say "I need exactly 1,000 RP going to here, and all the rest should go over there. If one of my mages decides to do something else, make sure you take away from all the other things before you touch that 1,000 RP."

For that reason, I try to give myself more than a 5 RP cushion.  Although when I get that sweet, sweet opportunity to level up two or even three schools at once, it's gonna be close.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 24, 2016, 05:21:38 pm
Postponing by 12 hours for Marignon. Also, Marignon, please double turn if you can.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 25, 2016, 04:54:36 am
I love that I have underwater-only units that are in the hall of fame now, yay. Trapped in my puddle.

Anyone got to much crafting skills on there hands, hit me up, got lose gems.

Actually, I really like water gems and would trade most other gems 1 o 1 for them.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 25, 2016, 01:23:42 pm
Requesting 24 hour delay on turn.  Same goes for PMs sent to me today, just for those who sent me such.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 25, 2016, 01:30:47 pm
Requesting 24 hour delay on turn.  Same goes for PMs sent to me today, just for those who sent me such.  Sorry.

Postponed by 24h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 25, 2016, 01:41:00 pm
Thanks for catching that delta, I was too busy to check in on stuff today.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 25, 2016, 10:41:14 pm
Skated in with a moment's free space, and it turns out I wasn't actually the last to submit, which is surprising.  It helps that most of those PM warnings were actually irrelevant, so it was unnecessary to worry. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 26, 2016, 02:17:36 pm
I'll check in this in a few hours, but can anyone that knows USEC get in touch with him? I'll delay if I feel a need to, but we've already had a 24 hour delay, so I'd like to avoid that again if possible.

Putting in a 10 hour delay while I head to bed. If I don't hear anything by the time it hosts it hosts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 29, 2016, 03:57:05 am
I'll be adding in a delay for Marignon and Vanarus. About a six hour one for now. Once again, let me know if anyone wants longer hosting times.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 29, 2016, 04:19:25 am
Thanks - as far as I can tell Vanarus is one of the growingly rare nations not in a war right now - I also just got the reminder email and noted i did my turn, but didn't mail it : /
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 29, 2016, 04:30:42 am
I've done that before, no worries. But yeah, far as hosting times go, it'd be perfectly fine for me to extend those if people are having trouble just keeping up with it all. War or no, I tend to expect people's lives to get quite busy throughout this weekend, what with Easter, and as we go along with the game, I don't expect people's lives to be as stable as when they first signed up for this. (For example, if I had started this game a month earlier, I would have had to take a 72 hour delay at one point due to pressing family matters). So yeah.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on March 29, 2016, 05:42:52 am
Yeah sorry, stuff got kinda crazy. Will be able to do my turn in about 5-6 hours, at work right now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 29, 2016, 08:23:05 am
Alright, will toss in another extension just in case. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on March 29, 2016, 03:12:24 pm
Thank you.  I ran into a bit of an issue as far as opening the game and running my turn was concerned, but it seems to be sorted out now. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 29, 2016, 07:24:40 pm
I'll go ahead and put in one last delay for marignon at 6 hours here. It's likely the last since I'm heading to bed and I doubt I'll be up before the turn hosts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 30, 2016, 02:48:33 am
So this symbol keeps showing up, its clearly new in dom4, but I don't know what it means or does, halp.


Aha, ongoing stuff. I to view the history of the region. Thank you google.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on March 31, 2016, 02:51:20 am
Sorry for the double post - I'll be gone from friday to sunday, I'm setting up my empire for a double turn for the worst case scenario, but might need a extension to cover the area from April 01 to April 03, which sadly, is most of the weekend. Sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on March 31, 2016, 04:35:52 am
Alright, I will handle that when the turn rolls over. Thanks for the heads up.

Edit: This turn's submission has been postponed for 48 hours. I'll be willing to extend this another 24 hours if ThtblovesDF hasn't submitted by then, but I want the reminder email to hit you guys before I extend it again. Everyone have a fun weekend!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 01, 2016, 07:29:04 pm
Fyi: my turn is / was done


Edit: I'm back, but didn't miss anything - seems everyone does it like I do - the last possible minute, no matter how far off that is. One of the reasons I'd love to keep to a "tight" clock
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 02, 2016, 11:40:17 am
Well, since you are back, I'll go ahead and put my foot down about no extensions then. Though to be honest, I turn my turn in when possible, unless I get mine while I'm asleep or about to go to sleep. Anyway, time to send some reminder pms out for those that haven't gotten their turn in yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 02, 2016, 03:49:05 pm
Well, since you are back, I'll go ahead and put my foot down about no extensions then. Though to be honest, I turn my turn in when possible, unless I get mine while I'm asleep or about to go to sleep. Anyway, time to send some reminder pms out for those that haven't gotten their turn in yet.
I see.  In that case, you may want to go about looking for a sub for me, because there will be circumstances where I cannot reach the computer where I have the game installed and run my turn in a timely manner.  I do apologize for that, but it is the case at present.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 02, 2016, 04:43:42 pm
Ouch, anything we can work out?

Wait
Fuck, sent the email to the wrong person,accidentally sent one to marignon instead of vanarus D:

Anyway, I did in the PM mention I'm willing to delay things if need be due to extraordinary circumstances, but if you want a replacement that's also fine by me.

Edit: If people need clarification I had meant that about this turn specifically. It would be particularly not well thought out to have no more extensions ever, and I'm more willing to give them if people know they have extraneous circumstances. Just that I would rather not if I can help it in this particular case. Besides, we've all been in cases where we have computer issues at one point or another, so I'll be treating that with sympathy.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 02, 2016, 05:17:59 pm
Ah, OK.  Yes, I misread in that case and thought you meant no more extensions at all.  Sorry.

Though, I suppose technically it's not so much computer issues as it is school and work.  ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 02, 2016, 05:23:52 pm
Oh, gotcha, sorry about the shock then, also I need to apologize to jking for sending the PM to them. Pretty sure if you had gotten your PM you would not have misread what I said, heh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 04, 2016, 04:27:45 am
Rough update from the best Scouting nation evar:

Arco and Marignon are having a slap fight with "randrom summons", trolls, bears and armys of crazy sacreds and straight palaxes Marignon has a army deep in enemy territory - you better stay over there, or I'll have to crawl out of my puddle! Shinuyama is in violent deaththrows and actually still dangerous especially since c'tis might be distracted... and more danger lurks closeby. Vanarus could throw its weight anywhere, but instead ramps into "I have to much money, HELP" territory.

Also damm you Shinuyama, I was like "I'll have a piece and then you have like what, 35 PD in a province?"
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 04, 2016, 09:00:35 am
I sent a few troops there to cause minimum annoyance at C'tis. But hey, it's all good no matter who they kill.

I'm once again reminded that while I like the points I get for going imprisoned, dormant gods are just more fun. At least I get a turn or two out of this guy. Master of Untimely Death indeed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 04, 2016, 06:50:38 pm
Can I get a 12 hour extension or something? I'm not sure if I can do the turn in time, sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 04, 2016, 06:53:58 pm
Will extend.

edit: postponed by 12h.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 05, 2016, 02:17:05 am
You're not the only one, Marignon and Vanarus also need a bit more time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 05, 2016, 04:37:03 am
Seems to be the case. I'll check in sometime before the game hosts in case another extension is needed. Still proud we had very few stale turns.

Edit: tacked on another 12 hours for this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 05, 2016, 05:14:38 pm
Get your turn in people, i've been on the edge of my seat for like 2 days ~
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on April 05, 2016, 09:25:17 pm
ah! Sorry for being so late with these, kinda got sucked back into eve online(huge war happening(join the horde! :P)) and kinda forgot   :-\ Will make sure to keep up check it at least every time I get home from work. Apologies!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Hatman on April 06, 2016, 06:18:49 am
For future reference, marshmasters are largely assassin-proof. Thank you kindly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 06, 2016, 08:10:14 am
Summons are the best (anti)assassins :D
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 06, 2016, 10:46:32 am
Managed to kill 4 of my own pans, without anyone else helping. Glorious.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 06, 2016, 10:49:11 pm
Requesting a 24-hour delay because diplomacy; I shouldn't need more than 12, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 06, 2016, 11:03:42 pm
Roger, will do.

And done.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 07, 2016, 06:21:46 pm
EDIT: Actually, never mind that. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 09, 2016, 02:39:01 pm
Alright, putting a 12 hour delay for Marignon and Ulm. If Ulm stalls again this time, I'll post to look for a replacement in the dominions 4 thread. I would not mind so many stalls up to this point normally, but we're talking consecutive stalling after I tried to follow up on what went on in PMs.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 09, 2016, 06:52:26 pm
If you end up needing a sub for either one, I'm available.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 10, 2016, 04:30:34 am
Intel says both are semi-at-war, but not losing and still relevant.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 10, 2016, 07:05:48 am
If you end up needing a sub for either one, I'm available.
Alright, send me a PM with your email in it and I will go ahead and have you sub in for Ulm. This may or may not be permanent depending on what we find out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 10, 2016, 01:29:40 pm
Okay, PM sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 10, 2016, 02:01:09 pm
Alright, welcome to the game shadowlord. Make sure to grab the worthy heroes mod and the map from the OP.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 10, 2016, 04:03:04 pm
Thanks for subbing.

Also:

DEATH MATCH, come on guys, it's about more then the sweet price items, send your best~ [I'm sending minimal investment]
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 10, 2016, 05:48:12 pm
Is the list of players on the first post up to date except for me?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 10, 2016, 05:53:26 pm
It looks right. You're the only player change and I've used it to send my many PM's.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 11, 2016, 03:14:25 am
Sorry about that. Been busy with university kicking back up again. I'll go ahead and update the first post in a second.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on April 11, 2016, 05:32:32 am
Well I am at work, I will be cutting it very close. If I could get a 1 or 2 hour extension I will have it in for sure, but if this doesn't get seen in time I totally understand I was pretty late.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 11, 2016, 07:50:35 am
Oh, crap, thanks for reminding me. I'll go ahead and add 3 hours to it just to make sure. Sorry if it's a bit stingy with hours (compared to usual), but seems everyone else got their turns in, so I want to get things moving. Feel free to ask for another extension if something comes up.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on April 11, 2016, 11:57:29 am
Perfect, thanks man. Turn sent in, will try to do my second this morning too but I may need to send a few messages first.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 11, 2016, 04:01:08 pm
Sooo I was the only one to send someone to the deathmatch? Weak performance, guys.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 11, 2016, 05:15:01 pm
When you win, you get a cursed item. I repeat, when you win, you get a cursed item XD

It never felt worth it winning for me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 11, 2016, 05:21:22 pm
Yep. The last time I won one it was because I was playing nazca and sent someone to die and get mummified and she more or less save-scummed every battle until she won, only dying once the competition was over...

That was quite the bug. (it's fixed now, thankfully)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 11, 2016, 10:49:28 pm
Vanarus is pleased to announce that with our latest research out of the way, Crazy Ivan's Magical Emporium is now OPEN for business!  We are now offering all sorts of forged items from trinkets such as the ever-popular Rings of Fire or Frost on up to very powerful magical items like this Carmine Cleaver, guaranteed to cook your meat to perfection at any barbecue you may wish to hold.  Need to cleave gates?  Our Gate Cleaver cleaves, slices, and juliennes gates of all sorts!  Looking to supply food and drink for a huge summer party?  Our Endless Bags of Wine will fuel enough revels to make a Pan dizzy!  Need that special touch for your necromancer's abode?  Our Skull Staves can give it that cozy feel of your mother's catacombs.  Yes, Crazy Ivan has it all*, and at these prices, you'd have to be positively crazy not to buy buy buy!  We accept Nature, Astral, Fire, Death, and Air gems in payment, with special discounts for Astral gems, and even if you don't have the gems we're looking for, we may be willing to accept whatever you have at only a modest mark-up. 

5-gem item: 8 gems  (6 Astral)
10-gem item: 14 gems (11 Astral)
15-gem item: 20 gems (16 Astral)

*Some terms and conditions may apply.  Not all items may be available for manufacture due to gem availability or lack of available paths.  Warranty does not cover item losses due to battle damage, disease, miasma, accidental scrapping, or acts of Pantokrator.  Specialized forge paths may require additional turns to complete large orders.  Crazy Ivan reserves the right to reject trade requests from nations at war with Vanarus or its friends.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 12, 2016, 03:52:41 am
I'd like a air boosting helmet please.

Also as for the area, I thought it was worth it just for shit and giggles, guess I should adopt a more competetive >: I mindset
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 12, 2016, 01:17:06 pm
Unfortunately, we regret to inform you that we cannot create A4 items at this time.  Also, just as a clarification, if anyone wishes to place orders, they can also send them by PM to avoid tipping their hand too soon.  It is not necessary to post requests in the public thread. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 12, 2016, 02:38:50 pm
(Put in a 12 hour delay for Culise to get their turn in)

Also as for the area, I thought it was worth it just for shit and giggles, guess I should adopt a more competetive >: I mindset
Well, it's a fun event, but, well, the rewards make it unfun. If some gems came out of it it might be a better event. Cursed items that you may or may not want on your character is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 12, 2016, 02:50:40 pm
True, they should slap 1 000 Gold ontop of it or a free selection of items, something like that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 14, 2016, 01:44:10 am
Leaving this on here, if you need an extension let me know sooner than normal. I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, so I may not be able to give extensions on time. In this case, hopefully Delta Foxtrot catches those requests.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 14, 2016, 09:33:43 am
Maybe just pre-emptively push it 24h to be safe, since it keeps requiring extensions?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 14, 2016, 12:29:07 pm
Well, postponed this by 12 hours, but you have a point. Wedding is still tomorrow though, so yeah, if Van gets their turn in within 12 hours I'll go ahead and do that.

Alright, we have a 24 hour delay. I already have my turn in, but this is just in case something comes up and I'm not around to handle it. Good luck everyone!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 14, 2016, 07:05:06 pm
Thanks for the good service dear admin.

Marignon get ya turn in, C'tis super-power struggles. Shirumas Capitals holds, nation name still hard to spell however.

Bonus fact: I wasted at least 10+ gems on a spell I thought would site-search for a Element, but didn't. Infact, no postive result came from it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 15, 2016, 12:33:54 pm
Well, there is a voice of foo spell that can be cast underwater that reveals all elemental sites. Pretty sure it's under conjuration, but feeling too tired to double check at the moment.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 15, 2016, 01:36:00 pm
All the site-search spells:

http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=spell&showids=1&showkeys=1&showmoddinginfo=1&spellkey=effect_number&spellval=48

Edit:
(Since the inspector hasn't been loading properly in chrome, I have a tab for that in Microsoft (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/theedget32.png), and another for the boosters (http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=item&showids=1&showkeys=1&itemkey=boosters&showmoddinginfo=1))

(Yes, I just went and found an image of The Edge, cut it out, and resized it just so that I could do that)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 16, 2016, 03:32:31 pm
Requesting an extension for Marignon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on April 16, 2016, 03:51:47 pm
Sorry bout that thought I sent the turn in. Won't be around for much longer anyways so will stop having to extend for me... Et tu, Oceania? :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 16, 2016, 03:57:23 pm
I don't have much scout coverage but damn, that's a lot of armies all over the place. Ascension Wars indeed :D

Shame all I could do was wither away while ineffectually flailing at C'tis and throwing some petty rituals at Marignon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 16, 2016, 05:45:59 pm
Sorry bout that thought I sent the turn in. Won't be around for much longer anyways so will stop having to extend for me... Et tu, Oceania? :P
Well, you put up a good fight, but uh, holy crap your research seemed bad compared to everyone else for the few turns I had the eyes up XD

I was half expecting to get fire from afar tossed in my general direction the entire time, but what were your mages doing?

Also, sorry if I missed extending, but seems you got your turn in, heh. One hell of a territory war, right?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 17, 2016, 09:09:00 am
Like most young men, I go for anything that looks easy ^^

Chalk it up to chaoticag having better diplomats or that he was already sort-off winning


We might need another extension for jking47/Marignon, would hardly be fair otherwise.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 18, 2016, 06:09:05 am
I'll drop one after lunch, I was burring up to my neck in assignments yesterday.

Edit: Added in 4 more hours for now. Generally should be ready for Marignon when JKing47 gets back from work to turn in, but just in case, will give it a 12 hour extension if jking does not get an extension in, and that would be as far as I'm willing to push extensions without jking personally mentioning they need one.

Edit 2: putting in the second delay a bit early because I get the feeling I'd forget if I went to bed soon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 19, 2016, 07:51:20 am
Welp, went into a stall, sucks.

In global news, Shinuyama is still around and freshly liberated by Vanrus very effective army (equipment everywhere, thugs, spell diversity, a actual combat plan, posion resistance spells against the c'tis sickness, someone knows how to fight). Wonder what happens next. I killed a bunch of mercs on my end, that was fun, too. Also stop sending monster boars at me people : /

Somehow Marigon is making horror marks work, one of my commanders got mauled by 6 brass horrors the turn after the first mark-spam and our beloved Hall of Fame Prophet will soon follow, looking at his marks at least.


______

Edit: Marigon might have to go AI, most likly not worth a sub as it is fairly likly he won't last another 5-10 turns, but he still should fight back.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 20, 2016, 07:50:10 am
I'll put in a four hour delay, since I'd want at least two stalls in a row before I consider replacing someone our turning them into AI. Otherwise it feels too short notice, and you can't undo AI.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 20, 2016, 08:08:27 am
Someone can play two nations in the same game if the saves are in the same folder (one of the other active games here figured that out). Most of us probably shouldn't, but shinuyama could, perhaps... If willing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 20, 2016, 11:31:45 am
I would have no issue with shinuyama doing so. Thanks for the tip shadowlord.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: jking47 on April 20, 2016, 01:08:30 pm
6 minutes before deadline <.<

Yeah I will try to stick around as long as I last, if I stall again though feel free to set to AI or whatever, totally understandable.

And I don't think the horror marks are me unless I am doing I don't know about. Which is totally possible.

I had no idea I should be researching so much until like halfway through the game. When I said I was a noob I really was not joking haha.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 20, 2016, 02:02:33 pm
Alright, well, if you need me to extend a deadline on such short notice do post here and send me a pm. PMs mean I can get an email sent right to my phone.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 20, 2016, 02:35:56 pm
From what I can tell there's not much to sub into with Marignon thanks to Oceania. Certainly do PM me if a sub (for any nation) opens up so I can look and see, but I'm already sort of organizing my time with the assumption that there's no PBEM obligations.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 20, 2016, 03:08:02 pm
Alright, thanks for that Delta. Kinda a shame the second admin for this got effectively knocked out already.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 20, 2016, 04:41:48 pm
I'll "play" another turn or two at least, see how this goes. But there's not much you can do with a crushed military and a single sieged down fort :P

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 21, 2016, 12:56:40 am
Well now I feel bad about it all : /

How is the war going, c'tis/hatman & friends?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 23, 2016, 01:02:02 pm
Postponed hosting another 6 hours. Should be enough for marignon to get a turn in should they choose to do so after they get home from work if I know this schedule right. Then again, it's a Saturday.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 24, 2016, 02:06:36 am
I would suggest throwing your gems at whoever you think follows your goals the most. I kind of expect a screw you - burden of time by c'tis at this point.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 24, 2016, 03:01:55 am
If anyone wants to counter something like that happening, I'm willing to cast a dispel should people contribute.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 24, 2016, 06:05:25 am
None but c'tis has that much death magic (or?) and he won't last very long at the current state. We have 3 nations near dead or trapped in there capital currently. Maybe next game I take a stealth pretender god and just be the most annoying assassin ever.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 24, 2016, 06:09:45 am
Honestly, the problem with c'tis unleashing burden of time is it would do very little to be honest. If their capital is under siege and is about to be stormed, then we can expect the spell to go down quite quick with no effort on my part. One way to dispel a global is to kill the mage that casted it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 24, 2016, 10:16:37 am
Yeah. C'tis is dead next turn - I just broke the gates down.

He's also been spending his death gems every turn sending his immortal pretender out to fire off two shadow blasts, which has not, so far, served to deter my armies, although it has killed a fair amount of soldiers (but the soldiers are mostly chaff anyways).

(Although I'm thinking line formation would be far more resistant than skirmish formation to shadow blast.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 24, 2016, 03:55:53 pm
C'tis                   Waiting for 2h file
Marignon           Waiting for 2h file

Get er done, lads.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 24, 2016, 05:08:37 pm
Hmm, I wonder if I should extend for those players or not since both are oddly on their last turn now, barring a miracle or an act of a better god. I'll put a 6 hour delay in anyway, and then I'll field this to the group on how to handle this in the future.

So anyone got any suggestions on how to best handle this situation?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 24, 2016, 06:39:46 pm
Depends.  If it's their absolutely final turn (that is, they've been knocked out of the game this turn and only need to turn in their file to confirm their defeat), then roll on without an extension.  If they still have armies in the field, provinces in the game, or what have you, then unless they actually say they're going AI, I suggest treating them as players.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 24, 2016, 07:00:24 pm
Yeah, it's just a case of both players having been brought down to one fort with no other province, and both gates are breached, but sounds fair enough. I just worry you folks are feeling this is dragging out a bit. Anyway, more or less won't check in on things until I'm awake again. If any of Jking or hatman need extensions I'm willing to provide if they get a word in before hosting kicks in. Which I think from here on out is going to be a default treatment unless someone has any special requests; a 6 hour/until I am next available extension, whichever comes later. During that time hopefully either a turn will come in or the player themselves would need an extension, so I will provide one if needed, but otherwise I can make no guarantees that during that six or so hour period I would actually be available, so consider it risky. That's more or less the main reason I hadn't put this as a 36 hour hosting instead, this way I'm hoping we hear from the people involved more often when they need some extra time.

tl;dr past 30 hours you get about 6 hours or a bit more to get a turn in or ask for an extension, but even if I do my best I can't make any promises that I will respond.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 25, 2016, 02:47:46 am
Seems fair enough, while I can releate to the frustration of being left without options, a after-action report or anything like that would be great to have, just for some perspective & learning oppertunity.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 25, 2016, 02:49:49 am
Not sure how well I can put an after action report after this thing, but hey, I should still have all my turns on my inbox and sent email folders. Beyond that I figured maybe an online get together of some sort after this was over would be nice so we can swap some notes and celebrate a game done.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 25, 2016, 09:56:14 am
Sounds good.

New turn rolls around, one gone. So except for Chaoticag everyone now holds at least one (in some cases 2) extra capital provinces. Ulm sure has a good amount of death income - about as useful as my fire-gem income, I assume? I hate how akward my empire is, with just one thin line of territory all over the world, turning me into a global-no-mans-land. Fish land. Will we start into a cold war now?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 25, 2016, 10:00:34 am
New turn rolls around, one gone. So except for Chaoticag everyone now holds at least one (in some cases 2) extra capital provinces. Ulm sure has a good amount of death income - about as useful as my fire-gem income, I assume? I hate how akward my empire is, with just one thin line of territory all over the world, turning me into a global-no-mans-land. Fish land. Will we start into a cold war now?
Unless something very surprising happened with the siege of Shinuyama, I don't believe Vanarus fully holds two capitals, either.  I won't be able to check for a few hours, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 25, 2016, 10:14:50 am
I'm still clinging, but you really could just storm it now. Less than twenty troops inside. Less than five who aren't diseased. Most of my shapeshifting mages have shifted into -paths +hp form just to stay alive.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 25, 2016, 10:50:37 am
Ulm sure has a good amount of death income - about as useful as my fire-gem income, I assume?

This is news to me! I was just thinking it was really low, and C'tis must not have bothered to do any site-searching for death, and was somehow getting by on just the 2 death gems from their capital...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 25, 2016, 11:43:26 am
Oh I somehow thought they would produce far more. Marigon did even less site searching, capital only income, too. Eh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 25, 2016, 12:53:55 pm
Yeaaaah. Though since this is a beginners game I think it's expected that some players would not have even thought of it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 25, 2016, 01:32:48 pm
Marignon player did remark their lack of knowledge as far as research is concerned. It's easy to imagine they ignored searching as well. Or they got plain unlucky. Mari mainly searches for fire and it's possible there's none in their lands. Especially if we played with default MA site frequency. I prefer EA frequency myself. A bit more gems to go around and bit more fun magic shenanigans as a result.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 25, 2016, 01:54:52 pm
There was also a possibility of astral for Marignon, maybe even air. Though yeah, seemed super basic knowledge of the game, but also a lot of potential seeing their tactics. A bless strategy carried them through backed with heavy crossbow recruitment. Though, well, undone by research.

I'll also have to say maybe for the next game I run whenever that would be we can use EA frequency and faster research. I figured the slower research would help newer players weight their options with each level better, but seems most walked in reading at least a guide somewhere. C'tis had skelespamming up, Mari focused on a bless and crowssbows, Ulm did what Ulm does best and seems to have gone with scales and rushing for magma eruption, Oceana did it's Oceana thing, I think. I am not sure about Vanarus, but seems as though whatever they're doing is working. And I'll leave people to guess what I'd been up to, but Elephant expansion worked.

That being said we're heading to a point where a lot of older strategies are going to fall apart. This should be interesting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 26, 2016, 02:26:09 am
Oceana did it's Oceana thing

Honestly I didn't even find a guide, so far I build my trample-dudes and... put them in peoples face. Light water-damage-spell-spam ontop and that was enough so far, since the water-stuff allows me to pick my battles very carefully. Then I killed 1/6th of all my casters with transformation (and bad luck), so there is that. Since I'm so very heavly in green (at least the guys that can leave the water [!]), I lack any spell that just straight up bombs someone out of the water and my scout network tells me that there are all kinds of naughty things flying around, especially those iron-darts and lighting bolts & Earthquakes.


Edit:

C'tis                 Waiting for 2h file
Marignon           Waiting for 2h file

Wait, isn't one of those already eliminated?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 26, 2016, 05:35:24 am
If it sends out a turn file it waits for a 2h file. You're still active on the last turn you have despite losing. Same thing happened with asphodel. If Marignon was also eliminated this round I'd have force hosted, though I doubt there is much that can be done with just 2 non-fort provinces.

Also, let's talk a bit of etiquette.... These things do drag the game a bit since we're waiting for people that may not show, so anyone that's thrown in the towel at least swap to AI to avoid this. It's just good manners especially for a multiplayer game. It only takes five minutes and helps the rest of us out. Alternatively if you want to continue receiving turn files, stale your turns and turn them in.

Alright, one more 6 hour delay, although I will possibly be asleep when hosting happens at this point. Either way, likely the last delay for this from those ends.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 27, 2016, 02:43:43 am
So thats 5 scouts killed in the last turn and this, why are ya'll so curious about my stuff, eh?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 27, 2016, 03:29:53 pm
How long till Marignon officially dies off?

They've staled the last three turns so if they're going to cling to life a few more turns I could switch them AI. Should cut a few hours off of the current turn to turn cycle. Or you know, anyone could. I'm probably asleep when Chaoticag sees this and I reckon Mari doesn't have too much in the way of super secret info that would benefit Arcoscephale. I know I'm dead as soon as Vanarus feels like it so I assure you that's not a concern either.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 27, 2016, 03:31:58 pm
Next turn they are off the list. They are unofficially dead now, their turn is effectively a you lose screen. I've been sitting over the game page more or less to force a host when vanarus turns in their turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 27, 2016, 04:26:17 pm
Yeah Vanrus was testing defences this turn with a single commander - thats certainly a pro-thing I have to keep in mind, great way to not be suprised by whats behind the castle-walls.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 27, 2016, 04:38:57 pm
It's a decent enough trick, but there's a few issues with it. It's telegraphing which castles need more defenses, and while the data is accurate, you need to have a way to respond to things fast to make the most out of it. An astral pretender could use that to ferry troops into a fortress through Gateway to deal with it for example, or an SC can drop on that province with cloud trapeze or teleport. It's not a terrible choice, and it has it's uses, but it seems best used when at war or against tough indie provinces.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on April 27, 2016, 05:12:58 pm
In this case, it was a scout looking into Shinuyama's fort after it was breached, I believe. (I didn't watch the battle because it probably was just the scout retreating immediately)

I haven't done it to forts like that before, but it's good for finding out the exact composition of armies which aren't in forts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 27, 2016, 07:26:51 pm
Alright, forced a host just now. People should get their turns in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 27, 2016, 10:19:05 pm
I did indeed send in a scout to check on the state of Shinuyama and their pretender, on the chance it was still alive.  It's a trick I picked up reading on other games to determine force composition and scripting.  Indeed, it's best used the turn before an attack, due to not only spells, but also flying opponents which can bypass sieges.  That said, if an opponent is willing to spend the Astral gems to drop their pretender in shooting range, I'm not sure I see any particular reason to deny them. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 28, 2016, 02:44:55 am
It's also a way to spend another turn getting your units diseased. But round here we just call it an early retirement plan so all's good :P

Fifth in expansion, first to get a fort, shared first to get two forts. I've done worse. GG all.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 28, 2016, 02:55:51 am
Only chaoticag missing a turn now.


Refreshing the game status and seeing a name vanish .. *gulp*

You really did hang in there Delta, good job. You honestly looked like the fastest/biggest thing for my scout network at the time and being the first scary might be ok, because everyone is busy, but the 2end most scary thing (c'tis) went to nom on you, which made him the main target for many and ugh, politics. No idea what happens next, but since I border everyone, everywhere I will have to get involved.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on April 28, 2016, 03:34:47 am
I'll have my turn in soon hopefully. I forced the host right before sleeping, and had some classes and stuff earlier. Getting home right now.

And then there were four.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 28, 2016, 07:13:28 pm
*tension intensifies*

Edit: *intensifies intensifies*
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on April 29, 2016, 04:06:04 pm
Requesting a non-aggression pact, then attacking me when I accept?  That was unkind, Oceania. 

EDIT: That said, it appears to be the only army you moved, which suggests the possibility of a misclick.  May I ask the intentions of the army moving against my capital, or shall I send out a party of emissaries to greet them before they arrive? 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 29, 2016, 04:32:21 pm
Can't check turn data right now, but no attack was intended or planned. Did you discover a sneaking thing by chance? Anyway, will get back to you on that later.

My bad, income in gold, as well as double the gems (6 total) the province produce is coming to you. I am sorry. Province will be empty, with 0 pd.



Something Something, you did steal my mother oak, grumble
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 01, 2016, 07:15:15 am
Well, saw shadowlord posting a bit earlier, so this is something of a place to put a reminder that, in case you did your turn and forgot to turn it in, please do so Ulm. There's still nine more hours until the turn hosts though, so I'll poke back in later.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2016, 09:11:02 am
If that was last night, that was me being too tired to be confident in my ability to strategize and stuff, but not too tired to write posts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 01, 2016, 10:08:03 am
Alright, not a problem. Just figured I'd drop a reminder in case that was the case. Something I've both seen and done before sadly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 01, 2016, 10:36:01 am
and now I've submitted two turns. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 01, 2016, 04:05:31 pm
I'm rushing one out before I collapse atm, sorry for letting you guys wait.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 01, 2016, 04:08:10 pm
So how's the game? I imagine everyone has scouts everywhere by now. Any wars going on? Throne score?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 01, 2016, 04:13:00 pm
I think I'll write something up once the turn rolls over, but things have been oddly peaceful since the drop outs.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 01, 2016, 04:53:44 pm
4 Nations just starting at each other while everyone gets there doom army ready. And I'm just here, 70 gold per turn avaliable, getting my globals stolen, being ociana, no ranged weapons and all that.

(Everyone has NAP with everyone, now they all run out)

Edit: Peeked at the new turn, reallllllly had to disspell that, huh ? No chill
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 01, 2016, 05:36:54 pm
Yup, got attacked by Ulm two turns after our NAP ended. How completely unexpected. We've more or less geared into the do or die end of the game now, so things are taking a turn for the interesting as Ulm seems to be provoking Oceana and have launched a small force to fight me. So rude. You're not getting any cookies.

Anyway, I had gotten some eyes in the sky and that seems to have more or less exposed quite a few of the spies sent toward me the past few turns, which to some extent was expected, what wasn't expected was how often they were being set before dying ignobly on the other end of some of my patrolling troops. It was something of an uneasy peace in the meantime, but people more or less stood by their non-agression pacts minus a weird little misclick. The next few turns are going to be interesting at least.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 02, 2016, 06:49:46 am
This invasion, at least, was launched solely because you started diseasing the entire world, chaoticag. ;)

My spies were able to determine which of your two thrones it was. As for all the dead, most of those were scouts, were they not? I attempted to send one spy to Frosted Peaks, but he appears to have died just like the scouts before him did.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 02, 2016, 07:02:51 am
I want to send angry fish-animals at someone for ruining my global but I don't know who dun it and everyone blames everyone else. Time to throw a dice.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 02, 2016, 07:31:34 am
I still say it's Shadowlord since he's got golems up and the highest astral income besides me. Doesn't seem like van would have had the infrastructure for it given that unless they had native astral recruits they'd need to empower into it then empower another two time at least in order to cast a dispel. I know for a fact I haven't done it since why go picking more fights than I absolutely need to, plus I have better uses for pearls right now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 02, 2016, 07:52:23 am
Dispel's an incredibly expensive waste of pearls if you ask me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 02, 2016, 08:24:28 am
Dispel's an incredibly expensive waste of pearls if you ask me.
Not too expensive when you're turning in 16 pearls or more a turn and recruiting crystal mages. You'd be able to cast dispel very often with that and it'd just take a starshine skullcap. Besides, you're in a better position to think about the long game aren't you? You really won't need the pearls as badly once you can summon iron angels instead, and you already have some incredible forging benefits. What would cost me 5 pearls costs you 1, and what costs me 10 would cost you 6.

Besides which I'd also shown Oceania some score graphs last turns in terms of gem income, I'll go ahead and send him some more info on how it can't be me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 02, 2016, 10:15:23 am
Forging benefits don't affect ritual costs, though; Dwarven Hammers would be loads better if they did.  Given how they're already really good, that's saying quite a bit. 

That said, yes, unless Vanarus goes with an astral build on a mobile pretender chassis (to go out and search for free; the astral site search spell is one of the most expensive of its kind), it has very few native options short of empowerment, and I think it costs something like at least 100-120 gems to hit S3 (50 gems to reach 1, then I forget what the costs are for 2 and 3).  Unless you have immortals (since they can't be permanently killed inside your dominion) or you're at a threshold value to unlock key items or spells that you cannot bootstrap into in any other way, it's almost never worth it; I'd go one further and say it is never worth it to pay the 50 to break into a new path in multiplayer, since you should typically be able to arrange a trade with someone else unless you're in dire straits, in which case it likely won't pay off in time to save you.  You also end up with a sort of catch-22 with initial empowerment, where you can't find most sites to gain gem income (unless they have crosspaths) until you have the paths, and you can't gain the paths to find sites until you have the gem income.  Alchemizing might be a consideration, but it is even worse for your cost-benefit ratio due to turning that 100-120 gems to what is at the worst a 200-240 gem cost.  Rus doesn't go full astral until LA and Bogarus; Vanarus' only native option is a Gamayun (Conjuration 5, S2s that require S3 to summon) or Vilas (Conjuration 7, S1 requiring A4 or N4 to summon). 

By the bye, since I mentioned those two conditions, I don't meet all the criteria.  I can't give away my paths by saying I went astral or no because it will allow anyone watching to infer my bless (astral, after all, has an opportunity cost), but I can tell you that I definitely went for an immobile chassis, to wit a Monument.  This has informed much of my strategy, to wit my obsessive concern over my capital's security.  My early-game passivity was largely due to the failure of effective negotiations with USEC's Ulm, which led to what I referred to as a "deathball" stuck on my capital. 

Also, since we're talking Dispel, I actually think it is worthwhile in some circumstances.  A minimum of 30 gems to force an opponent to waste anywhere from 50 to 100 gems is a good trade, as long as you succeed.  Some rituals are bigger targets than others as well; Utterdark is an obvious target, but Eyes of God a bit less so.  Also, don't forget how paths above the minimum add to the cost.  A minimum-dispel of 30 gems cast by an S4 counts like a dispel of 35 gems cast by an S3.  This works the other way, too; if, for a random example, an S4 caster is casting an S3 global ritual, that 1-path difference counts for 5 extra gems against any attempt to dispel or steal the ritual, even before you count any extra gems you added in.  This also scales linearly; an S9 casting Dispel without any extra gems possesses six paths more than needed for the ritual, which means that it counts like a S3 casting Dispel while burning an extra 30 gems.  Both global rituals and dispels are more cost-efficient the more powerful your casters are in that path.  That's one of the weakness of countries with many but shallow paths; lots of flexibility, not much specialization. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 02, 2016, 10:28:58 am
Trade was really low, i.e. not a single one of you traded with me, even though i offered plenty of fair 1 for 1 deals on gems, etc : /

Edit: For a newb game, we sure are all sharks in the water.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 02, 2016, 10:31:46 am
Trade was really low, i.e. not a single one of you traded with me, even though i offered plenty of fair 1 for 1 deals on gems, etc : /
Same.  Apart from some early-game trades with Arcosephale, no one was really interested.  I wonder if Crazy Ivan's trades were a bit too expensive; I know at least one player opted for empowerment instead of trading with me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 02, 2016, 12:35:00 pm
Hmm, well, I'm so used to either having people on a team that trades are not necessary, or breaking into some paths I would not have had access to otherwise through semicreative means. Though there are some trades I had wanted to do for a bit but waiting for a suitable time to do them on.

Sorta anyway, I had given Ulm a magic item as a welcome gift into the game once a replacement happened so we'd at least have a stable border. I was really worried that one of my neighbors would have invaded during that slugfest with Marignon. I also feel I kinda blew your trades away Culise, eheh. Not sure if anyone was watching those fights. Prolly ThtblovesDF since he thought I had air access for a bit.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 02, 2016, 02:06:07 pm
I either didn't have any in the first place or used up all the gem types that Oceania was interested in. As for the rest... Vanarus was a steady neighbour and everyone else attacked me. So that :P

I had a minor stockpile of Fire by the end but that's it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 02, 2016, 02:15:09 pm
Sorry about that, but you had the undeadz and they scared me.

Sidenote: If you are a mess like me and reply to a pm-mail with your 2h. file like a tool, tarn will email you and tell you to use the forum.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 02, 2016, 02:21:29 pm
Yeah, that item you sent me was a starshine skullcap, which allowed me to make more astral boosters with my astral smiths.

Also, I usually site search, but in this case I used the spells instead to find as much as possible as fast as possible.

Also, it helped that Marignon sent me all their gems and gold just before they started staling every turn. :P

Thtblovesdf: Lol @ that sidenote
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 02, 2016, 03:25:13 pm
New turn, not much for me to do, how is everyone else?

Also, darn, that must have been a nice gem-boost.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 02, 2016, 03:29:59 pm
Staring at a wall as my mages continue to waste away to disease.  On the bright side, it won't happen for much longer.  On the down side, that's because there's not much left.  The dead hand of Shinuyama and C'tis curses me from beyond the grave.

Also staring at an almost 600-strong (according to scouting reports) Oceanian force marching along the Oceania-Arcosephale-Vanarusian frontier made up of assorted nasties and led by none other than Lesueurii, Master of Water, Prince of Ice, King of Discipline.  Which is amusing, I suppose, albeit somewhat paranoia-inducing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 02, 2016, 03:52:03 pm
I threw several blights at Marignon's capital when they crossed my borders. I also forged a bane venom charm soon after C'tis besieged my capital. From what I can tell it didn't do much (D paths give resistance?). Seems it hit you a bit better :D

I am nothing if not capricious.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 02, 2016, 04:12:53 pm
As I am currently using Marignons capital - no negative effects on my troops, population seems somewhat shaken. Overall my dominion is fairly chill (hehe, temperature joke) and has good luck and growth all over. The ice certainy helps vanrus.

I'm not sure, how do stealthy troops act - are they just hidden from scout reports or partly displayed?


My god was nothing more then a "oh god I am bad at mp, lets not die turn 10" early expansion thing. That was sadly trapped in a puddle for the longest time : /
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 02, 2016, 04:24:55 pm
Sidenote: If you are a mess like me and reply to a pm-mail with your 2h. file like a tool, tarn will email you and tell you to use the forum.
I am oddly aware of that, given first hand knowledge as well, he mentioned when I sent him an email asking him to ignore it that it happens about once a week to boot. And he will still send an email just in case.

As I am currently using Marignons capital - no negative effects on my troops, population seems somewhat shaken. Overall my dominion is fairly chill (hehe, temperature joke) and has good luck and growth all over. The ice certainy helps vanrus.

I'm not sure, how do stealthy troops act - are they just hidden from scout reports or partly displayed?
I do not think stealthy troops would show up on spy reports unless lead by something unstealthy, sometimes not even then. Remember those provinces where you all of a sudden found air mages in them? Kinda like that I think. Scrying might help.

Staring at a wall as my mages continue to waste away to disease.  On the bright side, it won't happen for much longer.  On the down side, that's because there's not much left.  The dead hand of Shinuyama and C'tis curses me from beyond the grave.

Also staring at an almost 600-strong (according to scouting reports) Oceanian force marching along the Oceania-Arcosephale-Vanarusian frontier made up of assorted nasties and led by none other than Lesueurii, Master of Water, Prince of Ice, King of Discipline.  Which is amusing, I suppose, albeit somewhat paranoia-inducing.
Seems like gift of health got sniped from underneath your feet sadly, still, ouch. I was formulating something to deal with C'tis, but it seemed like the war was over before I could move the gears. Go figure that Ulm is finding out what it is at the moment. Oh, right, I think possibly, and don't quote me on this, but rings of regen might keep your diseased mages alive. There's also miraculous cure all elixers.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Jilladilla on May 02, 2016, 04:55:12 pm
but rings of regen might keep your diseased mages alive.

I know I'm not a part of this, but yes, regen rings will stop them from losing HP every turn, however it's only a matter of time before the disease afflicts them into worthlessness. But it'll still, on average, significantly improve the effective lifespan of the mage.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 02, 2016, 06:30:03 pm
Well, it would be worth keeping them around if you can get them into a gift of health domain. Or if they're nature mages have them possibly transform. Then you can pawn the rings off to creatures that need it more.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 03, 2016, 08:36:19 am
I don't think gift of health will heal units from other empires?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 03, 2016, 11:48:05 am
You double dispelling animals  >:(

Guess I have to focus on making whoever doesn't disspell everything win.


For the benefit of readers:

Turn number 62
Ulm -> Beef @ Arco   (2 turns)
Ociana -> Beef @ Vanrus (1 turn)

Map with some mild censorship.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 03, 2016, 03:39:49 pm
My apologies, but something about the whole "you trying to knife me in the back" thing does not make me all that sympathetic to your plight, I must say. ^_^

By the bye, here's some free public intel.  Oceania's pretender is a Sea Dragon, Water 5 (6 with a Water Bracelet boost).  Expect significant undead, animals, and the like, along with a blood economy churning out devils and soul contracts. Given that he's throwing three armies of what appears to be approaching 700-800 soldiers at me, feel free to take any bites you wish to.  I'd be surprised if he left much in reserve; he's likely counting on eating me up before Ulm and Arcosephale work out their...ah, differences.  For the curious, though, Oceania's three thrones plus my own three thrones, plus any single unguarded throne will result in an Oceanian victory.  In this listing, Ulm and Arcosephale presently each claim one, with the Throne of Pestilence up for dispute between the two. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 03, 2016, 03:53:07 pm
Eh, you got about half of that right. I have a single soul contract from a event and 12 devils total, thrones are considered in my aggreements with ulm and arco. Assuming you "vanish" right now, even then I would take about 9 turns just walking from throne to throne.

You really brought it on yourself, dispelling malestorm and overcasting mother oak - what did you expect? NAP timed out, I declined a extension, there was no suprise or knife in the back there. IF there is a knife I pulled it out my own back and it had "my globals" written on it.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 03, 2016, 04:23:22 pm
Really, now, Maelstrom was a huge threat; it is the most powerful gem generator in the game, spitting out 27 gems per turn, almost three times its elemental counterparts.  It's rivaled only by Arcane Nexus, as far as I'm aware, making it a declaration of intent. 

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised you're still holding a grudge over Mother Oak, considering even I was somewhat irritable over getting it poached in the first place.  It does seem a little long to hold a grudge, 'specially since we did not have a NAP at the point I got that turn in, but this is a game for long memories.  It doesn't really matter to me either way, though.  I don't believe I'll ask why you say I dispelled Maelstrom, since at this point, it doesn't make any difference.  In at the last, and in to the last. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 03, 2016, 04:29:15 pm
My malestorm only produced about 15 water gems, might adjust based on map size?

Anyway, you know my reasons and currently vengence seems more tasty then winning ^^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 03, 2016, 04:47:03 pm
Should be 15 Water, 5 Astral, 3 Air, and 1 of every other gem type (Fire, Nature, Death, Earth).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 04, 2016, 05:02:08 am
Huh, soooo:

Ichtoid Shamans > Mind Hunt spam
Triton Guards > Bukavac   (2x)
Pans hp pool > Seeking Arrows
big bird < Seeking Arrows : (

No real big battle so far however, hoping form something nice at the capital at least.

Update: Vanabog > IceElementals, Hard.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 04, 2016, 06:36:30 pm
Vans are remarkably tough critters. Vanarus I think has the potential to thug out quite a large portion of its commanders through air alterations.

It's impressive in a way that makes me nervous when we get 3 turns sent in within an hour of a new turn going up. Best of luck to everyone!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 06, 2016, 03:12:02 am
I got the hint and did my turn ; )

Whatever happend to mother oak, btw? I can only assume that Mokosh (the guy that went insane for scrying at my amazing army of critters) was the caster?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 06, 2016, 04:51:47 am
Or disease. Culise mentioned having a lot of diseased casters.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 06, 2016, 10:04:24 am
Guys I poisoned were his low level forest mages. I'm assuming they can't pull off mother oak, or if they did Culise probably wouldn't risk them in battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 06, 2016, 12:23:47 pm
Well, in that case, it's likely vengeful waters wrecking havoc on anyone with coastal provinces.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 06, 2016, 03:45:37 pm
I got the hint and did my turn ; )

Whatever happend to mother oak, btw? I can only assume that Mokosh (the guy that went insane for scrying at my amazing army of critters) was the caster?
This assumption would be correct.  Mother Oak got popped when Mokosh's thread was snipped short. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 07, 2016, 07:38:42 am
Well, in that case, it's likely vengeful waters wrecking havoc on anyone with coastal provinces.

So far it killed about 5 relevant casters and 25-ish Scouts and spys. Doesn't feel very cost effective, but at least it is bad enough it won't get disspelled.

Due to my cold doiminion i produce ice elementals that just don't Hit anything at all and are usually to weak to beat anything with Bodyguards.

As for mother Oak, my gem Stores are empty .... So anyone can (re)-claim it, then again we are all feeding our respective war maschines pretty hard.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 07, 2016, 10:43:26 am
So does anyone else have a plague spreading through their lands? It's been going on for some months here.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 08, 2016, 08:16:25 am
Just gonna put that out there, but I think that Iron Blizzards have killed without a doubt the most units this game.

Plague is no issue for you, since you have gift of health anyway, or?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 08, 2016, 08:39:41 am
It is, since it's several events which directly affect things like income and population (killing some), while also being able to spread to neighboring provinces (unless borders are sealed).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 09, 2016, 12:52:05 am
Sorry about the delay, but I'll have to delay a bit further. This week is taking way too much out of me since projects. I'll put in a 12 hour delay but hopefully won't need all of it.

Edit: Put in my turn and followed it up with a double turn. Sorry for that delay, but with that my projects and schoolwork should massively decrease.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 10, 2016, 03:29:39 am
Appriciated

So the next round will be very, very intresting for the Vanrus / Ociana War, our battle theaters are:

A thug'd out Earth King vs "whatever I have laying around"

More then 100'd good man rushing to help against the filithy undead hordes storming Hogorias castle

The Siege and taking of Shnuyamas former castle, with Vanrus army seemingly on the run? Not that that goes very fast with cubes oozing along.


#Edit: As additional friendly banter, I'd like to show the hall of fame. I have no idea how or when my fella up ontop died, maybe it was old age, given he was one of my starting units, poor fella. As one can see, there are also very little heros in vanrus, as it befits a nation of trickery and backstabery

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 10, 2016, 02:01:20 pm
Any chance of an updated map from anyone? Assuming there's anything to update. I totally understand if you'd rather not post anything for top secret reasons.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 10, 2016, 02:56:39 pm
And in the next few turns, I believe Oceania is about to learn the reason why one doesn't build massive amounts of unprotected temples when one has yet to defeat their opponent's main field armies. It doesn't matter which direction the force departing Shinuyama takes; it's going to smash at least one of them.  ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 10, 2016, 03:29:53 pm
I think these last few turns are really making me wish I were ermor right now, heh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 11, 2016, 03:32:12 am
Eh, those temples where there before the war started - and the income of Shirumas capital alone nearly pays for a new one (200 gold only afterall) - plus as long as you walk in the lands of my dominion, the angry waters will work on washing that flith away.

I'm wondering, is that 40 man group left behind a result of such a commander loss or a tactical choice to ... slow my doom blob? We'll see.

As for the big battles:

Earth King won, thanks to the beautyful circle of little critters (bugs & friends) around him, that I then entangeld, i.e. made unmoveable and unable to fight. The Pan responsible for this mess has been fired and more leassons on that topic have been learned.

The most fair fight might have been the undead-horde vs the pileup of dude with axes. My Iron Bane came about 7 turns to late, god knows why and it was a brutal slugfest. Pretty sure if Vanrus would have secured the exit province and moral wouldn't be a issue, he'd have won.

Also, damm vanrus, thats some good sites next to the capital : O
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 11, 2016, 10:00:05 am
Well, chaoticag, you did the one thing that would provoke me into dispelling Burden of Time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 11, 2016, 10:15:26 am
Out of 25 Commanders in a province, Vengeful Waters attacked the 3 Thugs :/ - Vanrus certainly is having a comeback and might even take marigons former capital back : /
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 11, 2016, 02:14:18 pm
Well, chaoticag, you did the one thing that would provoke me into dispelling Burden of Time.
Please, go ahead and toss more gems into this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 11, 2016, 02:39:17 pm
Having punched a giant hole in the covering force blocking its northern army from moving, Vanarus is now preparing to liberate its provinces surrounding the capital in preparation for a last stand.  That includes certain opportunistic sorts who decided that this war would be a great chance to snag a free province or two. 
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 11, 2016, 02:44:03 pm
Not that I would stop you from making a mistake, but ulm didn't really attack you, it was the enchanted-forests global that spawns armys/attacks.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 11, 2016, 03:00:48 pm
Then they won't mind if I happen to move into that province.  You might, but that's obviously another story. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 12, 2016, 02:48:25 am
Forgive the slow turn, I was waiting for messages that just didn't show up yet.

So is the order of armys moving set (i.e. Vanrus always seems to move before me) or randrom each turn?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 12, 2016, 03:06:39 am
I'm not sure how well you know movement so I'm going explain assuming 0:

Moves into friendly provinces happen,
Then moves into non-friendly provinces happen,
Then resulting fights are resolved

I've read (and we all know how fuzzy hard data on Dominions is) that if two armies are moving at each other, one of them sits while other attacks. This is random but larger armies are more likely to attack successfully. Apparently there's also a chance the armies will both move (ie. no battle), which is more likely when they are small.

edit:
In plain terms, you can't ever catch an enemy army by moving onto its space if it is also moving.
edit2:
Ritual based movements and fights happen earlier, so it is possible to teleport something on top of an enemy before they get the chance to move away.
If you don't know it already, page 80 of the manual has a really handy turn resolution sequence:
http://www.illwinter.com/dom4/manual_dom4.pdf
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 12, 2016, 03:32:14 am
I knew most of that - thing is both me and Vanrus are nearly always moving into enemy territory - me hunting his army, him moving away from my army and running over the war-torne lands of his former nation, so it's a silly game of chicken where I can't possibly catch up unless I "speed" around him at some junction, somehow.


Like so:
O1 = Army
V = Vanrus Army
O2 = Some province I own

[O1] -> [V] -> [O2]

O1 moves to attack [V], [V] moves to O2, so next turn we have the same state, again, except shifted one and me more annoyed.


[O2] -> [O1] -> [V]  -> (another O2)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 12, 2016, 03:48:43 am
Rituals are great if you can do anything on that front. Otherwise you'll need fast and/or multiple armies. Pangaea is one of my favourites partly because if anyone starts attacking my lands, I can just use my strong MM3 troops to intercept them. No idea if your sea centaurs are as badass. But if you can't catch him then fair enough. Trade province for province to buy time and kill his forts. That ought to do it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 12, 2016, 04:10:19 am
Aye - centaurs are badass - and expensive. At least his capital doesn't move ; )

On another note, thanks to Burden of Time, my sirens are now old (80)+ - but there sexyness for luring people to there death still remains, which is oddly entertaining.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 12, 2016, 06:38:11 am
To be perfectly honest, maybe in the last 6 months, standards of beauty have changed since everyone else aged too. That or they're still screaming about it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 13, 2016, 03:25:59 am
Lovly thought.

The Army of mixed critters and picked up charm'd troops is on the front door or the Capital, 2 provinces away and vanrus has all its eggs in one basket - only thing I wonder is if he will split his army to safe the earth king or put a decent fight in the capital instead? We'll see!


Edit: If Vanrus had done a double turn, we would have a turn like 4 hours after the last - impressive.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 13, 2016, 09:39:03 am
It wasn't waiting for Vanarus, it was waiting for me. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 13, 2016, 12:35:13 pm
Well, we're pretty close to blitzing this as is. I think we're good.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Culise on May 13, 2016, 02:50:26 pm
Edit: If Vanrus had done a double turn, we would have a turn like 4 hours after the last - impressive.
Coincidence of coincidences, I did do a double-turn. Triple-turns, unfortunately, are a bit beyond my means. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 13, 2016, 05:12:32 pm
My bad - and I finally redid all the orders for the fuck-huge army, this is going to be a nice battle.

Edit: Or struggle, eh.

I've reached the point where my retreating troops and armys are so sizeable (or messed up?) that double-clicks no longer select all  units of a single type, so I have to shift-click armys back together - annoying.

Edit2:

Thanks for the item delivery Ulm, but the delivery man was very aggressive
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 15, 2016, 06:29:19 pm
Very curious on how many gems we'd squeezed out of ulm so far at this point. Each golem seems easily worth 50 gems or so, not to mention the global enchantment battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 15, 2016, 06:52:06 pm
The equipment is all relatively cheap, since it's all made by smiths with hammers. Golems aren't so cheap, but I haven't made any of those in ages. The iron angel died remarkably fast, but then, I wasn't expecting either of those two to run into a 600-unit army (maelstrom killed all my scouts).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 16, 2016, 05:17:15 am
*Vengeful Waters

Malestorm gave mana. No longer, sadly. It's gonna be a messy fight Ulm, may the better one of us win or something like that - but I'm sure we both know how I only recently levels up from beginner to amateur in this game.

Also dear lord, you had like 60 scouts that died to vengeful waters over the various turns, how much intel can one person need? - Your most recent iron angels seem to be doing better., however.

Ironically, the smallest nation on the map currently has the biggest doom-blob I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 17, 2016, 12:36:32 pm
If number of scouted provinces is less than the number of provinces you're not scouting enough.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 17, 2016, 06:28:11 pm
I was wondering why this turn took so long, looks like I just forgot to turn it in, ooops. Sorry about the wait!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 18, 2016, 02:55:12 am
Something for our readers:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fight Starts with plenty of Strenght of Gaia and quicken self, with the Iron angle jumping right in the middle of my crossbows.

Meanwhile Pan starts Grip of Winter and Cold-rest for the army, as well as the few late EarthPower Powerups - some charm spells fail on the iron angle (which I didn't expect to meet here, honestly).

The Angle then gets storm-of-throned in place and absolutly shotgunned in the face by all crossbows.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A angry shambler chief knocks the iron angle in the knee and he is quickly finished off by the next volly of bolts. But his army remains:

Especially the Black Knights on the "unprotected" flank are worrysome, but they already have roughly 10 fatigue each - a start.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The knights turn on the water-minotaurs and they barly surive the charge thanks to the barkskin.
The Black Plate Inf continues to "nope" all arrow and bolt vollys and for some reason my iron bane never was cast.

We now have a full melee, with the Aphori on the north flank holding there ground, but lacking damage against ulms inf - this mostly comes from there own poison spikes.
Overall the lenght of Ocianas weapons seems to be "winning" this-stall melee, as they are able to repell a lot of hits while the inf itself fatigues out, freezes to death and in somecases even rapidly decay.

The real joke here is that I'm winning with ranged weapons using a nation that has none.

The Queen of Elemental water had to take a nap after the battlefield enchantments and now returns to cast a devestating niefel-flames, hitting plenty of her own troops, but at least they got some cold-res:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The next volley of attacks is finally enough to break the brave Ulm troops - they are not actually beaten, even while countless of them have taken serious damage, but there moral is low, nearly everyone is wounded and high on fatigue - turning now might be wise, even if they could hold there melee far longer if they wanted to. Ulm has plentyful casters, but they are busy rushing thrones, so this fight goes to ociana.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In the last turns, many of Ulms troops are charmed and welcome with healing mists and open arms into this rag-tag-bunch of lovable misfits. Maybe they just miss the Gift of Health?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Most other battles didn't go so well, since iron blizzard is still total bullshit ; )

Infact there are so many spells the fight with Ulms god sometimes makes my game crash on very fast.


In other News "Minimal Investment" the glorious champion of the Arena died, passed out and hit by about 30 Orb Lightings at once.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 18, 2016, 10:45:39 am
Judging by how things are looking, I expect you'll have enough thrones to win in a few turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 18, 2016, 11:21:16 am
Judging by how soon we are to the late game I should consider trying to get everyone who had played the game together if possible. Shaking hands (virtually) and prolly swapping notes would help a lot since this was a beginner's game and all, so some criticisms and comments about how we all did from the folks involved would be nice.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 18, 2016, 11:34:07 am
Oceania's done very well, I think.

My mistake was probably that I didn't attack earlier when I'd have had more of an advantage, but probably the only really effective "earlier" would have been "before I joined the game" :P.

I have very few late-game tricks available as Ulm since we have very weak path access - I have tons of gems and nobody who can do anything really useful with them. (I did empower and boost a bunch of people, of course, but I can't deploy E5 casters into armies to cast Army of Gold/Lead - also the one time I ordered it, it didn't get cast, or maybe the mage never made it, I don't know). Or maybe there are effective things I can do with them that I don't know about. That said, I'm only expending minimal effort on the game at this point because defeat appears certain.

P.S. They're iron angels, not this:
(http://2.imimg.com/data2/OQ/RX/MY-2556433/gi-angle-250x250.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 18, 2016, 12:34:23 pm
Sorry, English is real hard for my little fish brain.

Seeing how earth blood deep well was finally overcast as well, I tend to agree - thanks to natures bounty I have a income thats getting close to 20 000 G, which is pretty sweet.

I didn't expect things to go so well, mostly because Vanrus choose to mess with my globals like no tommorow. Otherwise, I managed to do enough good diplomacy to get to the lategame in a good position.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 18, 2016, 12:45:15 pm
Should we call this a game then? Pretty much willing to throw in the towel at this point since there's not much more that I can do in game, and it's sounding like Shadowlord is out of options. Might be better to have that round 21 that ThtblovesDF mentioned on the dominions thread.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 18, 2016, 01:45:42 pm
I'm fine eitherway, obviously there is a joy in tasting the victory fully, but I'm just happy with my first eitherway.

Not all is lost - if you hit the right 2 provinces at the right time, all my globals would go down and it would twist things right around. 

Maybe play another turn, just to see if your army can take on ulms fortress, otherwise get worked up on a new turn.

IMO Ulm could have won it, even going back as little as 5-10 turns, but by playing safe and betting on a golem-air-drop and holding many troops back, they gave me time to leave vanrus-land and swing everything around. My Underwater provinces where never attacked the entire game and I'm sure once we see the graphs, my fort spam may have contributed to a tiny and small increase in cash flow over time.

As for a new round, I've never hosted before nor do I think I could do a great job like chaoticag, but I'd certainly be up for playing another game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 18, 2016, 02:03:32 pm
Ulm was playing way too safe in that war yeah. I should have lost it before Vanarus was Vanquished. The earlier bits of the war were prolly where you could have brokered a peace agreement with me since I was at my lowest there before swapping priorities from "face ulm straight on" to "Let's make ulm pay through the nose in gems".
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 18, 2016, 03:45:13 pm
I'm good with calling it for ThtblovesDF.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are on!
Post by: chaoticag on May 18, 2016, 03:45:56 pm
Alright, thanks for playing guys. Looking forward to the next game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 18, 2016, 05:11:44 pm
Well that was a fast game overall. Went in with minimal gameplan and that showed pretty glaringly. Remember kids, experience is no substitute for homework! Was good fun though, I don't usually get crushed as badly as I did here, that was refreshing. And I don't want to imply that was all thanks my ineptitude, C'tis did a smashing job on the early war front. Seemingly less so on the diplomatic table :P

It'd be interesting to hear how my Blight rituals affected Marignon. I was amused when I got attacked by all three C'tis, Marignon and Arcoscephale. Far as I could tell it was three opportunistic individuals making a grab at a vulnerable nation. I can dig that. However, don't make a push if you can't follow through. C'tis could. Marignon I presumed could not. So to show my feelings against such unprepared opportunism I threw several blight ritauls at his capital.

When I finally kicked the bucket I sent all my belongings to Arco. I've never been sure how if at all wealth should be redistributed at player death. Usually I take it to my grave or, in this case, gave it to perceived weakest player.

Quote
Blight
E2D1
5E gems
The caster unleashes a blight upon a distant province. Five percent of the population will die, unrest increases and eighty pounds of gold must be used to feed the starving.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: chaoticag on May 18, 2016, 05:18:20 pm
To be honest, I might have been involved in orchestrating against you somewhat, albiet unknowingly to some degree. I knew you were the most experienced player, and that put me on edge, so I was talking a lot with other players about how you seemed to be expanding too fast. Marignon at that point was negative space on my map so it really looked the part that you were big. At some point, Oceana hooked into that, and I think they orchestrated the three way fight to some degree. Although I spent way too long fighting marignon to a stalemate as a result it seemed, heh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 18, 2016, 05:28:19 pm
I expanded significantly better than Arco, Mari and dead Pan. I can only assume I expanded in unfortunate directions so as to appear bigger than I was. I certainly spread myself a bit too thin on C'tis and Mari/Arco fronts. Couldn't really defend those in any realistic manner.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 18, 2016, 07:30:00 pm
I'll attempt to give a lightly drunk report.

Early game was a "breeze" where my failures where compensated by having a awake waterdragon - which quickly ran into the issue of "there really isn't a whole lot of water here. I did NAPs with everyone I could find and those who where receptive where offered more advanced deals as it fit.

Arcosphodel was my first find and I very quickly choose to murder all undead (and therefore water-walking) nations I could find. Remember, I came at this as a newb with one desire: surival. It's why I picked a underwater nation in the first place.
It was easy enough to get ulm in the boat against arcosphodel and we somewhat rolled over it, with ulm both doing most of the work (even when they thought I did) and receiving the capital as means to get a good ally for the rest of the game - sadly the player switched.

With C'tis it was very much the same game, but I very heavly worked on making them both seem scary and getting everyone in the fuck c'tis boat - nicly along the lines of "get rid of all underwater nations".

At the same time, Marigon and Arco had there beef. The only real kicker here was that marigon was putting up a total block to my lovly fishy diplomatic approch, so they had to go - C'tis itself was a none issue at this point and arco a completly secured ally due to my intense help - so I had both Ulm and Arco on my side, after that it was a somewhat easy game of "Lets punch the guys that are not secretly my allys" - at one point I had NAPs with every player in the game.

And at that point, Vanrus started messing with my Globals, something nasty. After plentyful talk and back and forth I was able to nail it on vanrus afterall, which made the plan clear - get in there, get revenge, screw the rest.

Turns out, Arco really did hold out near forever against Ulm and got me the victory by doing so - Ulm was a slow war maschine, while I just threw everything in the general direction of the enemy and hoped for the best, in nearly all turns Vanrus could take any province they wanted - but I usually had more then they did - and the entire war played on there land, once again leaving my underwater provinces and base safe. A big boonw as the the national hero I got, that give research bonuses and allowed me to turn the useless shamans into "decent" researchers - a shaman can spam frozen heart, slow with slime, summon water elementals and build both labs and temples like no tommorow - so I did plenty of that.

Overall thoughts:

Arco: Was basically forced into getting in bed with me, which worked out well for him I'd say. Certainly assume him to be my ally in victory.
Marigon: He suffered from being the slightly weaker faction in a 1v1 war and I'm a bastard.
Shinuyama: Was promissed much help from me and had very little delivery - at the same time, C'tis having nearly half its force sitting on his capital for like 20 turns caused c'tis to die. Don't be the biggest most scary thing in the world, I guess. Sorry mate, but you also had to many undead things : (
Ulm: At first things where very well and I did consider it the nation I'd march to victory with (cling to the side of it like a parasite) - but we all know how all that ended. In the end, the nation was to passive.
Vanarus: He had no friends and thats how he died - some more pm's would have saved the natio and while he had a very good understanding of both the game and who might be dangerous, that wasn't always communicated to the others. I'm suprised I won the war against him with "so little" loses. Share your opinion?
C'tis: You where scary big and it was really easy to make you look even more scary big. Also undead troops and all that - of course I played both sides, both as leader of the "fuck c'tis" and the "I'm your best ally mate" faction - so if you had been winning your wars, I would have crushed the nations that became weak in there wars, if you would have clearly gone down, I would have joined in on the pileup - however, as things went I basically did nothing in fear of offending a ally or steping on toes. Rather have 3 bigger allys, then 3 normal sized enemys.
Asphodel: You  honestly just got screwed for being a dom-kill nation, sorry.

Where can we look at the graphs?

TL;DR: "Offer everyone friendship, murder everyone that refuses, then murder everyone that answered with maybe". I certainly became a much better player by the end of this.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Culise on May 18, 2016, 10:35:19 pm
My problem in the late game was pretty simple; rather than it being a matter of lacking friends, my two friends went after each other, which left me with nothing when Oceania took advantage of it to swat me like an annoying fly (I have my guesses on who sold me down the creek, especially given that Oceania was under the impression that I had no friends when I was under the impression that I did).  I tried to convince Ulm to leave Arcosephale and go after Oceania on the logic that the original casus belli (the neutralization of the Throne of Pestilence) was accomplished, but he was intent on Arco's death at that point, so I didn't even try to sound out Arcosephale on the other half of the peace after that firm refusal.  That said, when Ulm invaded Arcosephale unilaterally, I did immediately start sending free support to the latter.  I did not want Oceania to win, but neither did I want Ulm to run away with the victory, either.  When Oceania really whomped me, I dumped even more on Arco, including all of my artifacts that I hadn't lost to Oceania at that point, then turned to Oceania and attempted to give them the win by rejecting a peace proposal that gave me one of the thrones and staging the defense of Vanarus proper outside the fort (the intent was that with six thrones and no need to keep a serious force in Vanarus, they could secure one of the remaining thrones quickly and claim it for the win).  That's not to say I didn't try to give Oceania a decent fight, but honestly, I'm not nearly as competent as seems to have been assumed by some others.  I cannot script a battle, gear a thug, or really do much of anything worth a darn, and when Vanarus traditionally weakens in the endgame even in the hands of a powerful player, it's really no surprise that I underperformed as badly as I did when I finally stood and fought.

Early to mid game, Ulm's insistence on keeping a large army two turns away from my capital was crippling, because I had to keep a major reaction force there to avoid a two-turn defeat; due to my relatively poor early expansion, that was effectively the vast majority of my available forces.  I eventually demanded a full demilitarization, but by that point, USEC had dropped and Shinuyama was getting rolled too hard for any intervention to make a difference; my invasion of C'tis was too little, too late, so I ended up eating what remained of Shinuyama as well.  I can't really make too much else in the way of assessment; my biggest problem is likely, as noted by ThtblovesDF, that I'm too passive diplomatically and militarily.  I won't lay groundwork significantly in advance unless I'm certain I can follow through.  I was trying to convince Ulm to make common cause against Oceania even before the Ulm-Arco war broke out, but that didn't work, and I thus didn't follow through with Arcosephale.  Before that, I wanted to make common cause with Shinuyama, but with USEC-Ulm threatening me constantly, I couldn't guarantee aid and thus never reached out to Delta as I should have.  When I went after Oceania's globals, that was indeed because I considered Maelstrom a major threat, but it was also last-ditch attempt to either stem Oceania's gem economy from flooding the world or to make Oceania the aggressor in a war that would give them enough thrones to win (Ulm at this point thought Oceania had 1-2 more thrones than they actually did, a margin that meant that annexing my three gave them 7 in total) and thus force the other players to band together out of simple self-preservation.  Unfortunately, Ulm was a bit too blithely confident in their ability to block an Oceanian victory by throwing one or two golems at the problem, and even if I had reached out to Arcosephale and they had been willing to help against Oceania, there was nothing they could have done to help with Ulm still trying to crush them.  What I did when it became clear that Ulm and Arcosephale would not stand in the way of an Oceanian win was probably a bit petty at that point, but honestly, it amused me more to see a traditionally "weak" nation like Oceania win than anything else, so I went for it. ^_^
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 18, 2016, 10:53:06 pm
I think it's worth mentioning that the main reason I went from blitzing C'tis to moving slowly against Arco was that I was worried about a few things, among which were:
1. Arco mind hunting all my commanders to death if I didn't keep astral mages in each army
2. Being backstabbed if I pulled all my military north to drown Arco in bodies, or worse, losing so many troops and mages that it would be impossible to survive the next war, or having them all crippled by Burden of Time while they were outside of my dominion (while I had Gift of Health up).
3. Limited iron blizzard casters, and slow recruitment rate for them since both the mage and priest that can cast it are cap-only.

In practice, by not intervening directly on Vanarus' behalf when they asked for help, and by not crushing Arco quickly, I allowed Oceania to grow out of control (probably they were already too big after eating marignon, though). I also didn't pay much attention to the battles there, which meant I was also lacking in intel when I did end up at war with Oceania.

I attempted to negotiate covert aid for Vanarus in the form of gem or item exchanges, but they weren't interested.

I also still had to give my most essential mages boots of youth to protect them from Burden of Time, even with GoH up to cure afflictions, until I dispelled it anyways.

(I've had enough experience with games where I expanded faster than everyone else and was never attacked by more than one or two at a time, and went on to win, along with games where I was blocked in and crushed by a larger nation, that I should know how bad an idea it is to allow anyone to expand unchecked, and yet I ended up attacking the smallest remaining nation and not trying to negotiate peace)

P.S. If Asphodel (Asp-hotel :P) was spelled "arcosphodel" nobody could call arcoscephale* arco. :P

* I had to look that up because I never type it out, and I had two missing letters

P.P.S. Golems are kind of shitty since they can't regenerate, among other reasons (such as low prot, att, and def). I've never really used them extensively before, but there were lots more important reasons I lost than that I blew pearls on golems - I had an income of 25 pearls per turn, iirc, and only stopped summoning them when it became apparent that they weren't working so well anymore against Arco.

Oh, and the golem and other guy who dropped in on Batimor and got crushed by a defending army was chiefly a failure of scouting. I couldn't see the army nearby and didn't expect one to appear on Batimor that turn since Oceania's thrones on my southern border were still basically undefended.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Culise on May 18, 2016, 11:13:52 pm
The reason I wasn't interested was because you were offering fire gems for blood slaves at what was for me a really, really bad ratio; it felt more like you were more interested in milking all the profit you could out of my situation than in actually helping me.  I could turn blood slaves into soldiers I could field.  Anything I could have summoned with those fire gems would not have matched in numbers or need. 

EDIT: Also, Asphodel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphodel_Meadows).  I suppose you couldn't call Arcosephale Arco if Vanarus was Arcorus or if Ulm was Arcolm, either, but I'm not sure what relevance it has. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 19, 2016, 02:28:14 am
Maelstrom was disspelled about 3 times this game, quite annoying, but I had little else to dump my watergems into.

I really was pretty clueless about thrones and throught this was a annihilation game until Ulm (Shadowlord) explained things to me - and Vanrus King of Elemental Earth was quite well thugged in my expierence, no amount of horror marks seemed to help (I burned easily 30 gems for as many horror marks from astral 1 casters, without effect) and it taught me to bring little riding dudes with "Quickenself" and vison-piercers or feeble-mind bows - until they showed up, you could have ran the king into any army and straight up won, as I had extremly little in the way of getting damage onto him and even sleep-cloud & spirit spam didn't work. Makes me wonder if turning the King onto my main army or having him join your doom-blob at the right time would have worked out?

The main issue was the massive lighting damage output from Vanrus, but at the same time - it was only one element and with boots + earthpower + generous gems (I learned about overcasting this game), I could protect against just that, provided the army was big enough and had a blob of dudes with it. More Caster & Elemental divisity would have worked greatly in your favor, but is very hard for Vanrus I assume?

Had you split your army into 8 equal parts, all with some casters, my 2 dudes that could cast "Ground Army" would not have been able to stop you from raging past the lands - sailing is also quite strong, but never saw any use if I recall?
___

For Ulm, all there troops could beat my troops in a fair fight. All there casters could beat my casters in a fair fight - thankfully you have/had many armys of 1-2 commanders & 60 minotaurs without anything [Its a fine choice, since I spam iron bane like no tommorow] and no casters - Iron blizzard & Iron Darts really did destroy me and any heavy investment into crossbows or other stuff would have worked wonders - hell, the "Thoughness" of my army comes fully from spells (Army of Giants, Mass Regeneration, Mass Protection, Fury, Serpents Blessing, Gaias Blessing, Ground Army) - that take time to work - A suicide earthquake caster would always have 1 turn to act and I'm sure you had a Earth 3-guy somewhere? How bad did Burden of Time hit you anyway?

Even now I think if we put all Ulm Units in the game on one side and all ociana units on the other, Ulm would win when defending. Also my units would drown, but hey thats life.
___

In the end I pin it on me only getting into wars I could win with less then 30% loses and fully commiting to them - In nearly every war I had no homeforces and any 30-dudes-with-water-pills would have rekt my stuff freely - but at the same time I did have NAPs with the relevant factions that could endager me and they had there own issues.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: chaoticag on May 19, 2016, 02:51:56 am
I think as far as anyone that managed to get into the lategame, my expansion was likely the worst, though Van seemed to be in second place or somewhere around there. I lost at least 3 expansion parties to bad expansions, which kinda makes me realize that Arcosophile's army is something I ended up... uh, overestimating their abilities. If I expanded further, I might have been able to grab some asphodel lands, but I ended up getting boxed in with people that pretty much held the line as far as fighting went. That war with Marignon was such a pain, that I kinda realize that almost no spell would have been good to rach before I got soul slay and mindhunt down as far as wars go. And then the wars I was in had opposing nations with astral access, and eyes of god told me I'd have fought a vanarus with astral access too. I was still trying to work out a counter for Ulm research wise when I got Ulm'd though, and I was really hoping Oceania would have taken the fight to Ulm while it was distracted by me. I think Oceania wanting to settle it with Van plus how horrible I underestimated iron blizzard (despite using it in a game before mind you).

I also likely should have made better use of my crystal sorceresses, since let's face it, that's the only way I would have enjoyed any air enchantment stuff like storm or whatever, and those would have helped save my bacon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Hatman on May 19, 2016, 09:23:55 pm
I lost because of vanarus. That is all. I had effectively beaten shinuyama, I was slowly taking the advantage against ulm, on the back of shadow blast and foul vapours, but I didn't have the scales for a war on so many fronts.

In retrospect, knowing that thtblovesDF was agitating against me and wished for my early demise explains a huge amount.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 20, 2016, 02:32:36 am
I lost because of vanarus. That is all. I had effectively beaten shinuyama, I was slowly taking the advantage against ulm, on the back of shadow blast and foul vapours, but I didn't have the scales for a war on so many fronts.

In retrospect, knowing that thtblovesDF was agitating against me and wished for my early demise explains a huge amount.

Yeah sorry about that - but again, if you had won I would have crushed whatever stood in your way - being allied with both ulm and C'tis at this point left me in a silly position, where I couldn't attack vanrus (which i assumed was in bed with ulm, too btw) and had to wait for someone to come out ontop.

I found the stealth mechanics to be "ok", sadly stealth moving into enemy territory is no different from normal movent and therefore means I'll have to fight - apperently one has to stay in the province about to die and set yourself to "hide", when surrounded?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Hatman on May 20, 2016, 06:08:42 am
I quite like the stealth mechanics, in that I haven't seen a grand strategy game with better ones, yet. Some ability to be selective in who an assassin targets would be nice - it would keep non-magical assassins relevant without loading them down with summoning items - and some ability to order spies or scouts to look at a particular unit in their province, check out its' inventory etc. would be good additions for a potential dominions 5 in my opinion.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 20, 2016, 09:27:45 am
No, you can send entire stealthed armies through enemy territory, and only have to worry about being caught by patrollers/PD. The default move order if your army is all stealthy isn't move, it's sneak. Well, you also have to worry about them all dying if they are detected and try to retreat and there are no adjacent friendly provinces.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: chaoticag on May 20, 2016, 09:30:59 am
Yeah, if the default move order is not sneak, then some units in there are not stealthy. Control clicking tends to move them into move instead of sneak unless they're in a place that they need to sneak or attack, then in that case it becomes sneak and attack. It was a nice way to yoink some provinces under Marignon's nose during that war.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: ThtblovesDF on May 20, 2016, 12:11:07 pm
I know - sneak however does not have any priority above move in the turn order, i.e. I'm trapped in a single province, with enemy provinces all around and want to get my troops out without dieing - I have to use the "hide" command, wait for the enemy to "hopefully" take it this turn and then sneak away - using the "sneak" [into enemy region] command will get the army caught, even if everyone fully stealthy, if a enemy moves into your region in the same turn you attempt to leave.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 20 Back to Vanilla. The Games are over. ThtblovesDF wins!
Post by: Shadowlord on May 20, 2016, 03:12:41 pm
Units told to sneak or hide go into stealth immediately at the start of the turn. (I don't understand what you're saying.)