Post by: piecewise on March 09, 2016, 09:32:41 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 09, 2016, 09:36:19 pm
Post by: TinFoilTopHat on March 09, 2016, 09:39:29 pm
PTW :D
Post by: Empiricist on March 09, 2016, 09:41:34 pm
Post by: Moopli on March 09, 2016, 10:31:26 pm
Perhaps the reality-warping brain behind the whole mess constructs things by analogy, using the memories of absorbed people to create juxtapositions of small bits of universes that work well enough for its purposes. So, say, the door leading out to a quarry could be because the quarry is mining something (not necessarily rock, could even be food, for example) and the service hallway is a useful way to reach the quarry. I'm not suggesting everything be like this - certain areas would be stranger in different ways, certain areas would seem all normal, etc.
And on that line of thought, it would be nice if the world isn't just a simple progression towards more and more lethal the deeper we get in. There could be places that are completely placid, just little spots where the convergent processes of construction make a place legitimately safe for building a base (at least, until you alert the immune system :p), and other places would be danger zones that we would avoid even long after we've tamed the surrounding area.
Edit: one more idea - if you decide that oroboropolis designs new parts of itself using analogy based on memories of absorbed souls, you could even use dead players by asking them for a few vague memories that you could decide to make a grotesque mockery of later. Then people can be like "holy mother of shit, is that smothering monster supposed to be my last character's memory of his mom?" and you can be like "no comment hue hue hue".
Post by: Empiricist on March 09, 2016, 10:47:42 pm
More seriously, maybe an emphasis on targeting systems? Basically, the City's defences need to identify threats first, meaning each of the doubtlessly many defefense mechanism can be partially evaded or tricked once players figure out how they function, or just through plain dumb luck.
Post by: O.Wilde on March 09, 2016, 10:59:17 pm
Post by: syvarris on March 09, 2016, 11:06:27 pm
Perhaps ways to make it harm itself? Like cancers and autoimmune disorders, which while impairing it also pose their own risks? Also, parasites that will help out initially in exchange for favours but which become hostile when they realise you're killing their host?I cannot +1 this hard enough. I really really love the idea of killing the city with an autoimmune disorder.
As for a suggestion from me... I got nothing, actually. I'd like it if you could talk about the NPC denizens of the city. What's it like? Utopian society with all of life's needs met, but with an underlying fear of the walls breaking and the outer city crashing in? A dystopic society that is merely a large group of people settled in the least dangerous portion of the larger city, where people struggle to live day-to-day? Where are we in the social hierarchy--are we outcasts, downtrodden and dangerous dunces who are destined to die or degenerate into demons? Heroes, who are praised and loved, but who invariably disappear mysteriously, because their demonic fates are covered up?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 09, 2016, 11:27:46 pm
Post by: Whisperling on March 09, 2016, 11:36:19 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 10, 2016, 12:31:46 am
Oro, the city, had to come from somewhere. It had to travel a world to get here. There are other people out there beyond the walls too, and surely they know of oro. Before boots can hit stone, the stone has to be mined, cut, and laid.
Step two is Oro itself. Once I have a history for it, I can build on that. This is probably where crafting will come in too, since this is where all the items used in it would get made. Lot of demon guts to scoop out and tape together.
Step three is the system. Combat is a major point, and also a major difficulty. It's easy...well semi-easy to create a combat system of some complexity, the difficulty comes from the fact that we are running on a "play by mail" style thing here. Combat the resolves in 5 interactions between gm and player would be pretty good. Great even. For us, thats a week. And for a game with a lot of combat, that is not viable. So we come to a dilemma between depth and accessibility, between control and efficiency. Do I do a complex system and have you set up several actions in one turn? Do I do a system where many aspects are automated? Something simple, even if thats not as good?
Step four, the player town and NPCs. By then I should know the amenities players need, the types of people around, that sorta thing. And I'll need to work out the way to do town migration, setting up new settlements, supply lines, that sort of thing. In a way that doesn't make me hate life. Minutiae is the bane of my existence, hand tracking a million little numbers.
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 01:07:48 am
Post by: MidnightJaguar on March 10, 2016, 01:19:43 am
Ooh, what about pseudo-biological weapons? Develop and deploy horrible abominations based off of samples taken from Oroboropolis and its denizens! So not just the usual flesh horrors, but also creatures the resemble urban areas and infrastructure, basically the option to create and weaponize living environments like the hostile City itself! Ride into battle upon a bus station that breaths corrosive bees! Establish create an artificial village or suburb that leeches electricity, gas and water from Orobopolis like a parasite and use it like a mobile base!We shall kill the city of the damned with the vilest parasite of all. The mall.
Post by: Corsair on March 10, 2016, 03:27:33 am
Post by: Nunzillor on March 10, 2016, 03:41:20 am
Post by: Corsair on March 10, 2016, 03:49:17 am
Zoomed out resource gathering for waitlisters would indeed be neat. Even turning it into a mini group strategy game might be interesting, if it wouldn't be too much of a burden.Seconded
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 10, 2016, 07:30:22 am
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 10, 2016, 07:57:24 am
I like this idea.Zoomed out resource gathering for waitlisters would indeed be neat. Even turning it into a mini group strategy game might be interesting, if it wouldn't be too much of a burden.Seconded
Post by: Egan_BW on March 10, 2016, 07:59:43 am
Post by: Moopli on March 10, 2016, 09:10:47 am
- oroboropolis was created for a purpose long ago, long since forgotten by the denizens and likely even the city itself
- oroboropolis stitches together the memories of absorbed souls as a base for its design work. Perhaps it was intended to use intentions instead of simply memories or thoughts, but it was either misdesigned or has since become corrupted. This idea doesn't just justify my last idea, but gives you an opening to create loads of differently-styled parts of the world, and an opening for some sort of magic that involves shaping parts of the city to your will, taming it, as it were (which would most likely also corrupt you, as the city starts using you as a design base in addition to as a source of ideas)
- oroboropolis was definitely first created somewhere, but it has an ability to create large spaces that are bigger on the inside, which means that we might think we've left the city only to still be inside it, and thus it might be really hard to realize if we have actually found the place where the original city was made (especially because it would have spread into there and corrupted parts of that world too).
- this I guess is a prerequisite for all the above ideas, but oroboropolis uses reality-warping powers to expand itself, but it's constrained in that the reality-warping has to make local sense, since the original design presumably intended it for the use of creatures that are generally not comfortable with warped reality. The constraints may loosen in stressful cases.
Post by: Kedly on March 10, 2016, 10:30:17 am
Post by: NJW2000 on March 10, 2016, 12:05:10 pm
PTW mainly.
Libraries. Construction?
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 10, 2016, 01:02:08 pm
Post by: Caellath on March 10, 2016, 01:19:53 pm
Post by: kj1225 on March 10, 2016, 01:37:15 pm
Second, which is related to the first, I don't really like the 'eventually you can't keep using your character' I understand that it's to avoid the problem of vets from ER, but shouldn't there be a better way instead of punishing players for being able to do bigger and better things?
Post by: Whisperling on March 10, 2016, 04:30:45 pm
Second, which is related to the first, I don't really like the 'eventually you can't keep using your character' I understand that it's to avoid the problem of vets from ER, but shouldn't there be a better way instead of punishing players for being able to do bigger and better things?
Maybe there could be a way to purge corruption via the sacrifice of loot/other valuable stuff? That would let people keep their characters at the expense of progression if they so chose.
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 04:33:42 pm
Wait how does the transformation work exactly? Do you just turn into a twisted version of your former self? Or does the City just assimilate you, until all that remains is a grand memorial for which you are the statue, occasionally rising up to brutally murder anyone who dare approach it?
Post by: NJW2000 on March 10, 2016, 05:24:32 pm
Competition to create the most powerful boss former PC would be a healthy dynamique in a game like ORO.
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 05:44:44 pm
Competition to create the most powerful boss former PC would be a healthy dynamique in a game like ORO.Followed by the formation of a Hunter of Hunters-style subgroup :P
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 10, 2016, 06:09:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-I'd like it if there was some strategy in it. So, for example, we'd get a map of the city (vague, incomplete and incorrect at places of course) and be allowed to plan ourselves what regions to tackle first, what resources to go for, etc.
-for combat, one thing you could do is that people, when monsters are encountered, describe the kind of tactics they'd use, and then you run combat (multiple rounds) until something big happens (eg extra monsters appear from the walls) or you think they might have reason to change tactics (eg somebody got wounded bad).
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 06:11:15 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on March 10, 2016, 06:12:12 pm
Post by: Moopli on March 10, 2016, 06:16:56 pm
I have to wonder how useful these ideas are if they don't go along with the way pw said he's designing the game though, with that whole step-by-step world building then mechanic designing process. Not to discourage anyone, of course, just a thought.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 10, 2016, 06:18:19 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 10, 2016, 06:20:56 pm
One possible way to do that city origin is make it some sort of external influence, something literally not from this world. Anyone remember that episode of samurai Jack where they showed how Aku came to the earth, just this blob of vague, pure maliciousness that corrupted the land around itself the moment it landed.
Post by: kj1225 on March 10, 2016, 06:57:14 pm
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 07:12:12 pm
Post by: Kedly on March 10, 2016, 07:24:04 pm
Post by: Moopli on March 10, 2016, 07:59:20 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I agree that it's definitely good fun to come up with whatever ideas we like. As for whether it needs an origin, well, a coherent backstory leads to a more coherent design, even if the PCs never learn of the actual origin of oroboropolis.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on March 10, 2016, 08:49:48 pm
Post by: Empiricist on March 10, 2016, 08:59:13 pm
I like the idea of taping demon bits onto a rusty sword to create a giant sword of endless fire and murder or something, perhaps have each part of a creature generate some random effect which you just generate once someone actually loots it.So the Pretty Princess Vivisection Ascension option? Could be interesting if the demonic bodyparts a person carries also affects what happens when the person turns into a demon, so if say someone's sword has a demon's claw strapped to it, the person once they turn, will have that claw as a bodypart.
Post by: piecewise on March 11, 2016, 12:58:06 am
Post by: Xantalos on March 11, 2016, 02:58:37 am
Post by: Cheesecake on March 11, 2016, 03:23:28 am
Post by: piecewise on March 11, 2016, 11:19:23 am
Post by: Whisperling on March 11, 2016, 11:23:45 am
Here's a question for you all, how do you feel about active NPCS? Ie If groups or single NPCS were exploring at the same time you are? Might find them somewhere in there, might just find their bodies, or, very rarely, they might end up clearing and establishing civilization in an area?
I'd enjoy that. It would give a sense that the world was more active, not to mention variety. Everything you see trying to murder you might get kind of monotonous after a while.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 11, 2016, 11:35:20 am
Post by: NJW2000 on March 11, 2016, 11:50:40 am
Maybe it's just my love of soulsborne, but I think that NPCs should be mostly passive.Or trying to murder you. Also like soulsborne.
Passive NPCs could be in cleared areas. Active hostile ones could be like invaders: fairly equivalent hostile groups to the PCs. Dead or fallen ones could be bosses.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 11, 2016, 12:05:43 pm
Here's a question for you all, how do you feel about active NPCS? Ie If groups or single NPCS were exploring at the same time you are? Might find them somewhere in there, might just find their bodies, or, very rarely, they might end up clearing and establishing civilization in an area?
I think living world is awesome thing. Obviously they shouldn't be common sight outside of camps, but occasional encounter with them, their corpses or their traces would be nice.
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 11, 2016, 01:45:19 pm
Here's a question for you all, how do you feel about active NPCS? Ie If groups or single NPCS were exploring at the same time you are? Might find them somewhere in there, might just find their bodies, or, very rarely, they might end up clearing and establishing civilization in an area?
You mean war crime opportunities? Sounds like a dream come true.
Post by: syvarris on March 11, 2016, 02:20:17 pm
However, I don't want them if they would add a significant amount of extra work for you, piecewise. It's a nice touch to have the world be alive, but it's not a good game mechanic.
Post by: piecewise on March 11, 2016, 03:31:14 pm
I would like active NPCs, doubly so if we can eventually have some influence over them after our inevitable player-built command structure is complete.
However, I don't want them if they would add a significant amount of extra work for you, piecewise. It's a nice touch to have the world be alive, but it's not a good game mechanic.
Maybe it's just my love of soulsborne, but I think that NPCs should be mostly passive.The NPCS wouldn't be a full fledged mechanics so much as a part of the world. A lot like the souls games where there might be a few big name NPCS you could find around or who would do things on their own, but not a whole simulation of NPC activity in the background.
I ask because I know some people dislike NPCS showing up before you.
In other news, I've been researching things about city growth and civilization. Amusingly, city expansion over time looks a lot like growth in a petri dish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNl5FiOBiSc
An interesting thing about ORO is that not only does it act as a living thing, but that it is an ecosystem onto itself as well. And it consumes lands as it travels, so you're gonna find some very interesting places in there once I'm done.
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2016, 03:36:22 pm
Here's a question for you all, how do you feel about active NPCS? Ie If groups or single NPCS were exploring at the same time you are? Might find them somewhere in there, might just find their bodies, or, very rarely, they might end up clearing and establishing civilization in an area?
You mean war crime opportunities? Sounds like a dream come true.
I concur. They're in a nice resource site? Trade with them, maybe even sidequest guard them.
They're in a great resource site? Kill them. I'm sure that won't corrupt your soul or anything.
Post by: The Lupanian on March 11, 2016, 04:29:44 pm
An interesting thing about ORO is that not only does it act as a living thing, but that it is an ecosystem onto itself as well. And it consumes lands as it travels, so you're gonna find some very interesting places in there once I'm done.Do you mean that, like, if at one point it consumed a tropical island, there would be an island, or pieces of an island, inside the city somewhere, except all corrupted by evil demons? Because if that is what you're saying that would be awesome.
Post by: spazyak on March 11, 2016, 05:14:18 pm
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 11, 2016, 05:40:46 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on March 11, 2016, 05:56:58 pm
Post by: Corsair on March 11, 2016, 06:17:01 pm
Post by: Yoink on March 11, 2016, 06:21:01 pm
Here's a question for you all, how do you feel about active NPCS? Ie If groups or single NPCS were exploring at the same time you are? Might find them somewhere in there, might just find their bodies, or, very rarely, they might end up clearing and establishing civilization in an area?Yes! That sounds excellent!
It always bugs me when the players are the only ones who ever seem to be doing anything in a gameworld.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 11, 2016, 06:22:02 pm
Maybe the players not going on missions can help decide to some extend on what tasks the npc peeps will focus? Aka do we want them to mostly gather intell on a new type of enemy, search for resource X, stay at base because we expect an assault soon, etc. Things like that will depend on how much strategy elements you wanna have, or if you wanna keep the npc aspect close to you for easier handling.
(Unrelated to previous, just kinda came up when writing previous)
I think that expeditions should get to decide themselves what objectives to pursue, and you could provide incentives if you’d like to steer them in a certain direction (eg Y money for whatever team takes down the boss monster that appeared in the sewer. High level teams could then try to do that as a sort of side objective, while lower level teams might make that the focus of their expedition).
And perhaps make it so certain objectives are only active for a limited amount of time, so that it is almost impossible to always get everything done, so the players will have to prioritize, and decide whether trying to get one more objective is worth the risk after an already taxing expedition. Alternatively, have mission objectives be given by some npc leaders, but then try to make sure there’s enough variety to choose from.
I’d also like it personally if doing certain things has a measurable effect on the gameworld beyond just some text/flavor (eg take out a hive, and the chance and difficulty of random encounters in that area goes down).
One thing I think could be interesting is having some sort of hp system, because chunky salsa is easy but has the problem that most attacks are often either useless, crippling or killing. However, having hitpoints (or stamina or something) makes it possible for even a high level party to get ‘whittled down’ by lower level enemies over time. This will create more incentives to establish forward bases, as well as make parties face the difficult decision of when to quit and head back (instead of just going on till enough members have perished or it’s a TPK). Of course, chunky salsa can still be in effect (roll bad enough and your head gets chopped off no matter your remaining hitpoints) but it could help to represent the small cuts and bruises and fatigue that decrease a character’s capability to fight, without the lowest unit of that being a lost arm.
Post by: Whisperling on March 11, 2016, 06:24:52 pm
Competing factions, certainly. Alliances might affect loot/gear too.
Hmm... There could be groups which might act as sponsors or donors if someone (or the team as a whole) helped them accomplish some sort of goal. They could provide better stuff, backup, or special info, among other things.
Maybe they could even work against you if you actively opposed their plans? That's a little iffy, considering how lethal everything already is, but it might provide some interesting dynamics.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 11, 2016, 06:29:04 pm
Healthy --> Mild Scrapes ---> Somewhat Injured ---> Perfomance-affecting injury ---> crippled --> mortally wounded --> Ded.
Or with two sets of injury level: one for crippledness/loss of mobility (affects speed, dex, etc) and another for blood loss/general injury/organ damage (affects strength, stamina, maybe end).
Post by: Moopli on March 11, 2016, 06:37:13 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on March 11, 2016, 06:50:44 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 11, 2016, 06:57:18 pm
Post by: Kedly on March 11, 2016, 08:56:07 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 11, 2016, 09:18:53 pm
Paradoxes in general. The TV is showing "Inception" right now. That movie had very fun special effects. I really liked the staircase scene, Penrose Steps I think they're called. Or the concept of mazes and fractals disguised in real life architecture and environments.
Another concept is the concept of the void. The concept of need or of balance. In Dishonoured, the Outsider is supposed to have been created through a ritual to fill a void in the world. A void which is expressed as a literal void, a black-hole like thing around which the planet orbits and that will eventually devour it. But also a metaphysical void, the hunger of that void to have a god. There was a void. It needed a god. So someone who could become a god existed. And after thousands of years, that someone will die and another will take its place.
Sorry for incoherency. Tired.
I've gotten my hands on a copy of spacehulk. I wonder if there's anything in here that can be useful.The lore around space-hulks is quite interesting. The game itself, while quite fun, isn't very deep I think. At least not lore-wise.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Space_Hulk
Post by: syvarris on March 11, 2016, 09:50:00 pm
An idea I had is to have no significant holy magical healing; If you get a limb lopped off, and manage to survive, you're not getting a replacement leg unless you use demonic magic. More minor wounds that could heal on their own might prevent you from going on several missions in sequence, so you'd have the option of either healing naturally over time, or risking corruption.
Post by: The Lupanian on March 11, 2016, 10:05:30 pm
An idea I had is to have no significant holy magical healing; If you get a limb lopped off, and manage to survive, you're not getting a replacement leg unless you use demonic magic. More minor wounds that could heal on their own might prevent you from going on several missions in sequence, so you'd have the option of either healing naturally over time, or risking corruption.I rather like this idea.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 11, 2016, 10:08:03 pm
Me too.An idea I had is to have no significant holy magical healing; If you get a limb lopped off, and manage to survive, you're not getting a replacement leg unless you use demonic magic. More minor wounds that could heal on their own might prevent you from going on several missions in sequence, so you'd have the option of either healing naturally over time, or risking corruption.I rather like this idea.
Post by: Empiricist on March 11, 2016, 10:10:59 pm
Agreed. It makes sense as well, since as all ER players will attest, medicine is the darkest of the dark arts. And also a psychotic yandere bitch, but that's less relevant.Me too.An idea I had is to have no significant holy magical healing; If you get a limb lopped off, and manage to survive, you're not getting a replacement leg unless you use demonic magic. More minor wounds that could heal on their own might prevent you from going on several missions in sequence, so you'd have the option of either healing naturally over time, or risking corruption.I rather like this idea.
Unless, Orobopolis is basically the health care system and the Grand Holy's faith opposes all medical practices :P
Post by: MidnightJaguar on March 11, 2016, 11:15:06 pm
Post by: Yoink on March 11, 2016, 11:19:10 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 11, 2016, 11:46:43 pm
Basically a hidden stat that can deflect minor attacks, but is consumed in the process, and you may or may not regain it over time.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 12, 2016, 09:34:45 am
Post by: kj1225 on March 12, 2016, 11:53:09 am
I like chunky salsa in terms of my burrito fillings/corn chip dips.What the fuck are you doing to your burritos
Post by: piecewise on March 12, 2016, 11:55:54 am
Post by: piecewise on March 12, 2016, 12:20:20 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/oDp9pSI.gif)
Post by: NJW2000 on March 12, 2016, 12:47:06 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 12, 2016, 12:57:42 pm
I still need to figure out how to do mapping...I was thinking something like this:I'd propose an alternative:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on March 12, 2016, 01:17:25 pm
Nice and sprawling, but would it being too structured be a problem?Not sure what you mean?
I prefer "Shit be fucked, yo" instead.I still need to figure out how to do mapping...I was thinking something like this:I'd propose an alternative:Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: NJW2000 on March 12, 2016, 01:48:14 pm
But there's no perfect system, obviously.
Post by: crazyabe on March 12, 2016, 01:51:13 pm
Post by: spazyak on March 12, 2016, 01:58:24 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 12, 2016, 02:09:22 pm
why not do a layer map system with a symbol representing something that leads up or down and a number that matches between each pair of up/down paths to help prevent confusionThat get's confusing too if people have to compare multiple images in order to know where they are and where they should go.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 12, 2016, 02:15:35 pm
If something like that doesn't exist, then it really needs to be created. So many people playing games that require maps, like D&D or using nodes to represent data... Someone must have had this problem before. Should search...
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 12, 2016, 02:18:10 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 12, 2016, 02:48:54 pm
Hmmm... Many people use graphs to organize data, make it easier to process. And some of those graph-creation programs offer ways to automatically organize nodes to make them look better and/or fit as many of them in the screen as possible while making them easy to understand (with varying degrees of success). I wonder if there's a program where you can define a bunch of nodes and the groups they belong to and have the program try to organize them in an easy to view form, divide them into different groups and areas. Maybe something that can be exported into a series of web pages that form a map. So you can select City A, read a bit about it, then select west district, then a plaza, then an important building there, then a floor and then a particular room, to give an extreme example. Something that will do something like the preplexicon map I had made, but do it in a semi-automated way based on the into inputted by the GM. And the GM can have a public map and unhide sections as the players explore them. Maybe have some shortcuts to important nodes visible in larger group nodes... Oh, great, I've slipped into describing perfect software now.
If something like that doesn't exist, then it really needs to be created. So many people playing games that require maps, like D&D or using nodes to represent data... Someone must have had this problem before. Should search...
A while ago I made a program to handle such thing. With it you can create places, link them to other places, flag them found/not found, track who's where and render whole thing into JavaScript object that you can upload publicly available. Of course, since I suck at graphical representation, it is ugly as sin. If you wanna see what it outputs, then check my test game Question. Especially the later parts.
Post by: spazyak on March 12, 2016, 03:10:02 pm
it works for mall maps.why not do a layer map system with a symbol representing something that leads up or down and a number that matches between each pair of up/down paths to help prevent confusionThat get's confusing too if people have to compare multiple images in order to know where they are and where they should go.
Post by: Moopli on March 12, 2016, 06:19:57 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Black arrow is where the poor souls enter, and every colored arrow is a direct connection (could be an airlock, a door, simply empty space connecting two zones of a cavern, etc), where you match color and direction. Yes, if you also match direction, you can even flip someone's chirality (and have fun telling them left and right reversed until the end of time; and enjoy making them get diarrhea from eating sugar, and so on). There's a portal in the example above which does this.
It can certainly be a bit confusing to create, but it's much better than the predicament the players would be in, eh :D?
Or you could just describe places and roads and such and count on the players to make their own maps to conveniently outsource the issue.
The problem here is that as GM you often want to know what the world is actually like, and that requires making a canonical map so you can decide non-arbitrarily whether someone's getting lost.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2016, 06:25:26 pm
Post by: spazyak on March 12, 2016, 06:25:44 pm
If you want to describe a small group of spaces connected non-euclideanly to each other, you can do something like this:that's what I was thinking ofSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Black arrow is where the poor souls enter, and every colored arrow is a direct connection (could be an airlock, a door, simply empty space connecting two zones of a cavern, etc), where you match color and direction. Yes, if you also match direction, you can even flip someone's chirality (and have fun telling them left and right reversed until the end of time; and enjoy making them get diarrhea from eating sugar, and so on). There's a portal in the example above which does this.
It can certainly be a bit confusing to create, but it's much better than the predicament the players would be in, eh :D?Or you could just describe places and roads and such and count on the players to make their own maps to conveniently outsource the issue.
The problem here is that as GM you often want to know what the world is actually like, and that requires making a canonical map so you can decide non-arbitrarily whether someone's getting lost.
Post by: Pancaek on March 12, 2016, 06:31:57 pm
Post by: Corsair on March 12, 2016, 07:22:14 pm
You could just do it like the daedric shrines/dungeons in morrowind, where the layour is actually physically impossible if you take a good look at the complete maps.That is actually really cool.
Also I really like the idea of forcing people to make their own maps and notes, which may be horrifically wrong.
Post by: piecewise on March 12, 2016, 07:58:52 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 12, 2016, 08:02:42 pm
Also I see your MUD background is showing again, PW.
Post by: Yoink on March 12, 2016, 08:09:28 pm
Truthfully, I prefer smooth salsa/hot sauce in my burritos. I was twisting the truth for the sake of a joke, which is the most acceptable time to twist the truth. Chunky salsa goes better in tacos, really. And before you ask, I prefer soft tacos, they're much nicer in my opinion.I like chunky salsa in terms of my burrito fillings/corn chip dips.What the fuck are you doing to your burritos
Thanks for making me hungry and sad... well, moreso than I already was, given that it is Free Taco Day today but I am in the wrong state. :'(
Post by: piecewise on March 12, 2016, 08:13:28 pm
Truly you are in the state of denial.Truthfully, I prefer smooth salsa/hot sauce in my burritos. I was twisting the truth for the sake of a joke, which is the most acceptable time to twist the truth. Chunky salsa goes better in tacos, really. And before you ask, I prefer soft tacos, they're much nicer in my opinion.I like chunky salsa in terms of my burrito fillings/corn chip dips.What the fuck are you doing to your burritos
Thanks for making me hungry and sad... well, moreso than I already was, given that it is Free Taco Day today but I am in the wrong state. :'(
Ha.
Post by: spazyak on March 12, 2016, 09:10:40 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2016, 09:12:19 pm
Post by: Whisperling on March 12, 2016, 09:15:12 pm
It costs money to get bullets, spaz.
Who says you need bullets?
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2016, 09:19:58 pm
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 13, 2016, 07:57:07 am
I *really* like spreadsheets and charts. And I want to get that kind of GMing experience in making more maps.
I bet I could make you a chart map of a city that does not strictly follow euclidean geometry. I'm the man for the job, notice me Piecewise Senpai.
Edit: Did a test run of ERRANT's new hitpoint system. I do prefer whittling down hitpoints to chunky salsa. It kind of gives players a fighting chance, rather than wiping them out right off the boat.
Post by: piecewise on March 13, 2016, 11:24:18 am
Piecewise piecewise, can I help with the mapping?
I *really* like spreadsheets and charts. And I want to get that kind of GMing experience in making more maps.
I bet I could make you a chart map of a city that does not strictly follow euclidean geometry. I'm the man for the job, notice me Piecewise Senpai.
Edit: Did a test run of ERRANT's new hitpoint system. I do prefer whittling down hitpoints to chunky salsa. It kind of gives players a fighting chance, rather than wiping them out right off the boat.
Hmmm. A mapper would be good...but also...SECRITS
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 13, 2016, 11:31:15 am
Piecewise piecewise, can I help with the mapping?
I *really* like spreadsheets and charts. And I want to get that kind of GMing experience in making more maps.
I bet I could make you a chart map of a city that does not strictly follow euclidean geometry. I'm the man for the job, notice me Piecewise Senpai.
Edit: Did a test run of ERRANT's new hitpoint system. I do prefer whittling down hitpoints to chunky salsa. It kind of gives players a fighting chance, rather than wiping them out right off the boat.
Hmmm. A mapper would be good...but also...SECRITS
I can disqualify myself from playing if you let me be a monster as well. NPC control could be a fun job for an apprentice GM.
Edit: I could also be an entire NPC faction...
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 13, 2016, 11:33:32 am
How about you let Aigre map, give me the secrets, and then we're all happy! :PPiecewise piecewise, can I help with the mapping?
I *really* like spreadsheets and charts. And I want to get that kind of GMing experience in making more maps.
I bet I could make you a chart map of a city that does not strictly follow euclidean geometry. I'm the man for the job, notice me Piecewise Senpai.
Edit: Did a test run of ERRANT's new hitpoint system. I do prefer whittling down hitpoints to chunky salsa. It kind of gives players a fighting chance, rather than wiping them out right off the boat.
Hmmm. A mapper would be good...but also...SECRITS
You could just ask him to set up the general map with the things people can know, then make a copy for yourself that you expand and add secrity secrets of mystery to. A 'master copy' so to speak.
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 13, 2016, 11:57:53 am
Post by: piecewise on March 13, 2016, 12:53:23 pm
What a novel concept.
Post by: Moopli on March 13, 2016, 01:25:45 pm
A secretary you can't have an affair with?
What a novel concept.
Oh, but you can ;D
Anyway, if you also want to include doorways that take you to a different place when you return through them, you can take the style of map that you posted, and use arrows instead of lines - so if a room has an arrow going into one side and an arrow going somewhere else put of the same side (or out of the same point, if you want to have multiple doors on one side of a room) then the player could enter the room, turn around, and end up in a different place.
Another suggestion is to use an image editor with layer support, not just for making nicer flat maps, but for actually denoting multiple layers of data independently - for example, simply in terms of connections, you might have the tangly, long-distance connections on a separate layer to keep the base connections from being cluttered.
Post by: piecewise on March 14, 2016, 07:07:13 pm
This core is interesting though. I'm almost regretting the fact that it's gonna be so deep in because getting into it and seeing whats there will be neat.
You'll also probably be very angry with me because I think it will kill off a lot of people.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 14, 2016, 07:11:40 pm
Post by: Empiricist on March 14, 2016, 07:16:34 pm
Post by: Ozarck on March 14, 2016, 08:22:28 pm
two the city itself: well, people could have sold themselves into dark alliances, called forth demons, created alternate lifeforms, or broken reality itself a bit, becoming avatars of darkness. There are all kinds of ways to fill a city with evil. and the evil could be in objects, designs, buildings, the air itself, connections with other things, and of course, the process of consumption of good.
the system could revolve around recognizing the type of sin represented by a give n threat and seeking to counter it through resource denial, penance, replacng a wicked thing with a good thing, or outright destruction. I think, if the city is consumptive of good, though, that some form of protection would be absolutely necessary for the good things, lest you do nothing but fuel the wickedness
player town: well, this could be the source of protection for the good. Faith, prayers, and acts of goodness could be part of the process here, as well as restoring broken things, purifying corrupt things, and destroying wicked things -items and beings brought to the player town by the adventurers. thus, a mote of good could grow within the city of wickedness. of course, this would be an antigen to the city's infection, causing the city to react against the town. So we'd need a robust understanding of the holy City, and the connection fo the Holy City to the player characters and the town, in order to form a proper resistance to that. that's probably where my main interest in this kind of system wold lie.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 15, 2016, 02:47:59 am
Secondly and more importantly, if Oroboropolis is self-constructing, how on earth is the holy city stopping it? Really big walls? Or are we killing just enough inhabitants to delay construction? How, in fact, does Oro grow/move?
Anyway, remember to make it eat a fishing village or two if you get the chance, and have a couple of canals and internal docks or something. That would be fun.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 15, 2016, 03:19:53 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 15, 2016, 08:10:38 am
You'll also probably be very angry with me because I think it will kill off a lot of people.
You might wanna put up a big sign in the OP saying "DEATH IS CHEAP, YOU WILL DIE. A LOT. PLAN ACCORDINGLY."
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 15, 2016, 08:13:04 am
Post by: Ozarck on March 15, 2016, 08:35:14 am
Of course, if you are feeling generous, you could make a system, where, after a certain number of a given player's characters die, the next ones get bonuses - I think that has already been suggested though.
Post by: Pancaek on March 15, 2016, 08:52:43 am
I'm still waiting for a single casualty from Infinite heavens since I joined the waitlist.You might just have gotten lucky there. I didn't get to play for all that long and me and another guy died in the same confrontation. It wasn't groovy at all.
Post by: Ozarck on March 15, 2016, 09:20:43 am
I do see that the death count is up there a bit. Both battles wit hteh bone thieves were high casualty, and I guess that fight with the mad god? which I haven't read yet.I'm still waiting for a single casualty from Infinite heavens since I joined the waitlist.You might just have gotten lucky there. I didn't get to play for all that long and me and another guy died in the same confrontation. It wasn't groovy at all.
Post by: Pancaek on March 15, 2016, 09:22:17 am
I do see that the death count is up there a bit. Both battles wit hteh bone thieves were high casualty, and I guess that fight with the mad god? which I haven't read yet.It's a pretty enteraining read. things get fruity real fast.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 15, 2016, 09:22:52 am
Now you're comparing apples to oranges though.I do see that the death count is up there a bit. Both battles wit hteh bone thieves were high casualty, and I guess that fight with the mad god? which I haven't read yet.It's a pretty enteraining read. things get fruity real fast.
Post by: piecewise on March 15, 2016, 11:04:17 am
Firstly, this is starting to sound a bit like the Mortal Engines series, which is alright, but I hope just a coincidence.Never read it, but from what I heard isn't that more about far future cities that move so they can get resources from each other via eating each other? Ie, its supposed to be somewhat realistic and mechanical. Well oro isn't that.
Secondly and more importantly, if Oroboropolis is self-constructing, how on earth is the holy city stopping it? Really big walls? Or are we killing just enough inhabitants to delay construction? How, in fact, does Oro grow/move?
Anyway, remember to make it eat a fishing village or two if you get the chance, and have a couple of canals and internal docks or something. That would be fun.
Stopping it? That's what you're attempting to do. It's coming toward the Holy city very slowly, so you have to kill it before it gets there. As per how it grows, there are internal forces for that; think of oro like a living thing, but all those enzymes and cells are replaced with mechanical things or demons that perform a function. When you see the 30 foot tall Minotaur with the delicatessen chained to its back, that means its bringing that building somewhere. When a subway train suddenly flies off the rails and lands in a pile of several dozen other subway trains, be prepared to find Raileaters swarming around like crabs on a whale carcass.
Will do. Someone should make a list of all the places people want to go as suggestions.
Please don't be tempted to nerf it to save player characters. I'm still waiting for a single casualty from Infinite heavens since I joined the waitlist. I'd say, if the gmae starts, after six months or more, ot bog down to the point where no new progress is being made at all, then maybe possibly reconsider a little, but maybe not. I mean, if hte game becomes unwinnable, either we lose, or things must adjust. But of charcters die, well, make the character generator user friendly and brief. Nothing turns me off of roguelikes like investing time and effort into a customizable charcter, only to have literally everything lost when it dies and have to start from zero again.
Of course, if you are feeling generous, you could make a system, where, after a certain number of a given player's characters die, the next ones get bonuses - I think that has already been suggested though.
It's a delicate balance, high mortality is. Because it sucks to get shafted like pancaek did. And it sucks to see a guy I know for certain is a really good player get booted out after a handful of turns. But high mortality also makes it so that the guys that DO survive really feel like they accomplished it.I'm still waiting for a single casualty from Infinite heavens since I joined the waitlist.You might just have gotten lucky there. I didn't get to play for all that long and me and another guy died in the same confrontation. It wasn't groovy at all.
I've been thinking that one way to handle this is some sort of minimum level cap that increases as the game goes on. At the beginning, on the outskirts, it makes sense to start you at level 1, but halfway in where you're starting at some highly fortified base deep in the thing, starting at level 1 is frankly unfair. It's like starting Xcom and your first enemies are 10 mutons. So I was thinking that, as you made it past certain incremental points in the map, that the level new characters started at could be raised. So that they'd actually stand a chance.
I suddenly don't regret killing you.I do see that the death count is up there a bit. Both battles wit hteh bone thieves were high casualty, and I guess that fight with the mad god? which I haven't read yet.It's a pretty enteraining read. things get fruity real fast.
Post by: Pancaek on March 15, 2016, 11:17:51 am
I suddenly don't regret killing you.Aww, don't be like that p-dubs-sempai.
But yeah, I think of letting new characters start raised after a certain amount of time would work pretty well.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 15, 2016, 12:06:38 pm
Post by: syvarris on March 15, 2016, 03:16:10 pm
Piecewise, as we get deeper into the city, will loot quality improve, enabling us to make better equipment? Or will we prefer to stay in the outskirts during loot-collection missions?
Also, for a site I'd like to see... a legitimate grand holy cathedral, of massive proportions. Especially if it's unusually pristine, and seemingly uncorrupted at first. Or perhaps it could be the central hive of evil in an area, which we'd usually destroy in some fashion, but the church commands us to purify it due to its significance as a holy site.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 15, 2016, 03:42:10 pm
Also, if there's railways and such, what does that imply for the setting? Modern or sci-fi firearms and tech? Or still melee based due to the post-apocalyptic thing going on?
Also, some locations (spitballing here):
-Water purification plant, but one that's now taking in good water and corrupting it, spawning monsters from those large bassins you sometimes see. Smell of the things can probably stay the same though.
-Old (coal)mines, where you're one false move away from collapsing the way back and trapping yourself in an unknown maze.
-Something that looks like a favela. Like a real urban slum maze of filth.
-An old, dilapidated prison turned fortress/bastion.
-a dam (maybe hiding a massive sea monster boss?)
-extensive sewer system, maybe providing shortcuts between parts of the city but where some really nasty monsters and environmental hazards lurk.
-enormous pit built over with monkey bars/jungle gym-like construction.
Post by: The Lupanian on March 15, 2016, 04:03:16 pm
1, I think you should do an overall feel of a city, but occasionally throw in something completely out of place, like a tropical island in the middle of the sewers, or a rainforest down a dark alley.
2, I like the idea of raising the starting level as we get deeper, it would both make it more fair, and it would allow us to create cooler characters that can actually live up to their backstories.
Post by: syvarris on March 15, 2016, 04:59:16 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 15, 2016, 05:02:06 pm
I dunno if you should be able to level when not on mission. Maybe only on one of those mini missions pw has been testing, and then only like 5 stat or skilpoints at a time in a stat/skill relevant to what you did.
Post by: Ozarck on March 15, 2016, 05:50:54 pm
Stopping it? That's what you're attempting to do. It's coming toward the Holy city very slowly, so you have to kill it before it gets there. As per how it grows, there are internal forces for that; think of oro like a living thing, but all those enzymes and cells are replaced with mechanical things or demons that perform a function. When you see the 30 foot tall Minotaur with the delicatessen chained to its back, that means its bringing that building somewhere. When a subway train suddenly flies off the rails and lands in a pile of several dozen other subway trains, be prepared to find Raileaters swarming around like crabs on a whale carcass.Got a little bit of Timmy's Snowglobe going on there.
Post by: piecewise on March 15, 2016, 06:35:33 pm
How will the leveling process work, anyway? We were only going to have one mission at a time, and each mission would only have a handful of the players on it--if we use ER's level system, where you gain a level after each mission, then I could easily see some people still being at level zero or one or so when we start raising the starting level due to progress. But if we use a system where you levelup by practice or something, this could result in lots of absurdly high-level people existing because they just skipped all missions and spent all their time training.Not there yet but I hope to have it based on something related to kills and what you kill.
Post by: syvarris on March 15, 2016, 07:28:21 pm
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 15, 2016, 07:43:42 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 15, 2016, 07:54:49 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 15, 2016, 07:58:04 pm
Perhaps it could be made so non-combat skills have combat applications? Like Handi letting you tinker or maintain your weapons, giving you a slight edge over combat only characters, or Med allowing you to judge potential weak points?Building on this, you could make all your skills wierd so that they each have both combat and non-combat applications, so your [Bladed Melee] skill is also your [Medical Surgery] skill, and you call it something strange and edgy like [Perseverance] or whatever.
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 16, 2016, 02:49:22 pm
Have each weapon type be it's own skill. i.e. Light Melee or Polearm or Marksman. Would force specialization if you wanted. Alternately you could just do a con/uncon/exo skill group like in ER.
As for physical, I suport having the ability to level the equivalent of stamina to allow for longer missions. This is partly because I want to play a scout who goes on rather unsafe long-distance missions and who may die and never be seen again as a human. Speaking of which, are the PCs going to be human? I was assuming so, but just wanted to check.
On the corruption front, I support the idea of being able to cleanse corruption, but never fully- once you'receive tainted, you always will be, save for miracle equivalents.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 16, 2016, 03:45:22 pm
How will the leveling process work, anyway? We were only going to have one mission at a time, and each mission would only have a handful of the players on it--if we use ER's level system, where you gain a level after each mission, then I could easily see some people still being at level zero or one or so when we start raising the starting level due to progress. But if we use a system where you levelup by practice or something, this could result in lots of absurdly high-level people existing because they just skipped all missions and spent all their time training.Not there yet but I hope to have it based on something related to kills and what you kill.
As people said, if it's only/mostly kills that grant xp then you might get that thing like in online shooters where people only care about their K/D ratio and don't play supportive roles or even pretend to do the map objectives.
I think party wide xp bonuses based on what objectives were accomplished might work better (fosters teamplay), though great individual accomplishments could still be rewarded (though I'd reward those more with money or loot than with xp/levels).
Post by: Moopli on March 16, 2016, 06:25:59 pm
Maybe someone who crafts new weapons could gain some experience in their crafting skill(s) not only by making stuff, but more importantly by seeing their stuff in action, or seeing the results, and learning from it all. This could extend to other skills too, to essentially give you a training system where you only get real results from your training once your training proves useful in action. It could work for fighting, where you spar, or practice shooting, etc, but you don't really know if you will hold up well under the pressure of real fights until you try, etc. It could also work for medical skill, or scientific skill, or other more cerebral skills, where you might have found a book somewhere and studied it but putting it in practice is key to actually getting better.
As for how granular skills should be, maybe you can do something kinda like Omega Legion, with general skills and more narrow specializations.
On an unrelated note, thematically, why do we need to have a 'holy city'? I'd much rather that the home base be just one of many villages of people scrabbling to survive within the city, instead of some special place that sends forth crusaders to conquer the fell forces of chaos. I guess our players could still affectionately call their home village the 'holy city', maybe it's the kind of thing that gives them a feeling of having a purpose; but I don't want it to be some amazing place or anything.
Post by: Xantalos on March 16, 2016, 06:33:17 pm
Post by: MidnightJaguar on March 16, 2016, 06:45:36 pm
Not to say that conversation would be bad. :P
Post by: Ozarck on March 16, 2016, 07:01:08 pm
NJW, the problem with that is the fact Tinker is exceptionally sporadic and random in its power creep. You can go a long time with no real improvement, only to have a burst of vastly more OP stuff all at once. It's not stable enough to use as a game mechanic.a formerly beloved location, renowned for it's charitable work and defense of the doctrines of holiness in an era of greed and indifference, turned to the enslavement of the destitute who sought her for aid, and providing justification for all manner of wickedness in a city of licentiousness. Holiness calls us to bring Glory to the name that is Good by casting out wickedness from such a site, restoring the dignity of the cathedral and the Honor of the Good. that'd be cool with me.
Piecewise, as we get deeper into the city, will loot quality improve, enabling us to make better equipment? Or will we prefer to stay in the outskirts during loot-collection missions?
Also, for a site I'd like to see... a legitimate grand holy cathedral, of massive proportions. Especially if it's unusually pristine, and seemingly uncorrupted at first. Or perhaps it could be the central hive of evil in an area, which we'd usually destroy in some fashion, but the church commands us to purify it due to its significance as a holy site.
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2016, 11:02:47 pm
Post by: Whisperling on March 16, 2016, 11:11:35 pm
If you wanted to give individual exploits extra significance, the aforementioned energy could have a tendency to stick to those the demon hated most in life, whether that was the big, tough guy who crushed its head or the medic who saved the day by preventing a bunch of deaths.
Post by: piecewise on March 16, 2016, 11:19:45 pm
Hmm. If the basis is primarily kills, then will combat-focused characters have an advantage over support characters like medics? Or will you award XP for successful skill checks done for something useful, like a medic healing a buddy, or a handiwork specialist opening an alternate route?Honestly I don't know if there will be dedicated non-combat units or what. It doesn't make much sense to send a medic into a world where everything wants to kill him. Makes more sense to train a soldier to patch himself up. I dunno though, thats still in the distance.
My Stat Suggestions:The idea I'm toying with right now, without any real depth of thought, is having weapon damage related to the weapon and your stats, while you get different abilities based off weapon skill, which is broken up into categories like sword, spear, polearm, fists, etc. Higher skill means better special moves you can do. That and maybe some innate moves. Like, weapon moves would require you to be using the weapon to use them, but innate ones could be done whenever. For instance, I had an idea for a class called a "Zealot" who fought with their fists, wore no armor and had massive faith reserves. So they might get the innate skill "Bulwark of faith" which let them divert damage from their HP to their faith instead, and the weapon skill "Fist of god" that lets them drain faith to directly power up a blow.
Have each weapon type be it's own skill. i.e. Light Melee or Polearm or Marksman. Would force specialization if you wanted. Alternately you could just do a con/uncon/exo skill group like in ER.
As for physical, I suport having the ability to level the equivalent of stamina to allow for longer missions. This is partly because I want to play a scout who goes on rather unsafe long-distance missions and who may die and never be seen again as a human. Speaking of which, are the PCs going to be human? I was assuming so, but just wanted to check.
On the corruption front, I support the idea of being able to cleanse corruption, but never fully- once you'receive tainted, you always will be, save for miracle equivalents.
But this is all just me brain storming so don't take anything as final.
As per corruption, The idea is that you only get corrupted if you hit 0 faith. But faith can be regen'd via killing monsters or using specific items, or by just returning to a safe zone and resting a while. Maybe hitting up the church, you know. But corruption takes the form -as I'm considering now- as a permanent physical mutation. And with that mutation comes an innate ability. The idea being that the demon you become is the sum of all your skills and mutations (plus a little bit extra oomph, from ORO)
Post by: syvarris on March 16, 2016, 11:51:42 pm
A system I've always liked is the one we used after the Heph Defense and Boarding. We listed what useful things we accomplished, and were awarded tokens based upon that. I think this would be a good way to award XP--after a mission, people can say what they did which was helpful, and you can award XP based off of that.
Alternatively, seperate combat skills and support skills, so that everyone gets equal numbers of both. That way we're guaranteed not to end up having only two medics out of forty players.
Post by: Corsair on March 17, 2016, 05:11:17 am
An alternate way of doing this is to have sub-classes like herbalist, smith and so on. These could be primarily used in the down-time between missions and sometimes on missions as well giving more flexibility in character builds and customization.
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on March 17, 2016, 08:25:18 am
Even if all support units are essentially multiclass people, taking support skills would come at the cost of killing power, thereby limiting XP. If I have a choice between getting the ability to have a +3 to stabbing, or a +2 to stabbing and a +1 to healing, the latter is generally worse for me personally.
A system I've always liked is the one we used after the Heph Defense and Boarding. We listed what useful things we accomplished, and were awarded tokens based upon that. I think this would be a good way to award XP--after a mission, people can say what they did which was helpful, and you can award XP based off of that.
Alternatively, seperate combat skills and support skills, so that everyone gets equal numbers of both. That way we're guaranteed not to end up having only two medics out of forty players.
Performance should be evaluated as a team. A medic shouldn't be missing out for patching people up rather than actively beating things to death.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 17, 2016, 08:31:11 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 17, 2016, 08:32:34 am
Alternativly, we have no medics, and everyone speciallizes in murder.Seems sensible approach. Because everyone's goal is to murder the city.
Post by: spazyak on March 17, 2016, 01:06:06 pm
So we should stab a wall?Alternativly, we have no medics, and everyone speciallizes in murder.Seems sensible approach. Because everyone's goal is to murder the city.
Post by: syvarris on March 17, 2016, 01:11:35 pm
Performance should be evaluated as a team. A medic shouldn't be missing out for patching people up rather than actively beating things to death.
Yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. Though, simply evaluating everyone as a team isn't such a good idea--it makes incompetency (and competency) matter less to an individual, because if one person on a team is incompetent, they'll still gdt paid well due to their teammates carrying them.
Alternativly, we have no medics, and everyone speciallizes in murder.
Yes, that's what piecewise was going for. I just think it is a terrible, terrible idea to have no medics in a game run by PW.
Post by: renegadelobster on March 17, 2016, 01:34:00 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on March 17, 2016, 01:41:52 pm
Well, someone was going to try it anyway.
Seeing as we've talked a bit about stats, can I complain about the char stat in ER? We mostly encounter hostiles, it works... oddly, infrequently, one can just as well say stuff oneself without rolling iirc, and those times it does work it's incredibly OP and weird (like in the shameful refugees who may suddenly turn into a well organised militia if Morgan Freeman rolls well and wishes it to be so). Oro sounds like we'd need even less of it, so could it be done away with entirely?
PW simulates crowd/civilian behaviour (running away from nasty invading kidnappers) pretty well, so the char stat often seems incongruous.
Post by: Hapah on March 17, 2016, 03:10:13 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 17, 2016, 03:12:51 pm
Post by: syvarris on March 17, 2016, 03:19:34 pm
Post by: Ozarck on March 17, 2016, 03:47:57 pm
Priest classes cold gain xp for per location or item cleansed, healers for amount of damage they redirect, support could gain xp either per successful buff, or per successful action of theteammate so buffed, or simply asa share in the xp gained by buffed teammates.
The need to not balance teams would be a good thing, I suppose, since PW has mentioned that teams would be randomly selected. Random selection could result in an all-support team, or an all-combat team, either of which is more likely to fail than a mixed team. Hmm.Or this could happen. yeah.
Post by: Corsair on March 17, 2016, 05:19:57 pm
-snip
I definitely like all of this and agree that having either everyone have a combat role and a support role or just support roles with combat usefulness would be great and add lots of customization. So for example you could have a bow-thief or a bow-healer and they would be different enough that they wouldn't just overshadow one another.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 08:13:22 am
More random locations ideas:
-location without gravity. Might be difficult to play straight for gm, but could give some interesting poritional gameplay.
-large muddy bombed-out fields (kinda like the cliche WW1 trench battlefield) with monsters made from barbed wire and pits filled with mustard gas. Watch your step.
-Imagine a very large and wide skyscraper. Now imagine someone pushed it over, perhaps over a large pit or swamp to prevent people just walking around it. Now you gotta navigate through that thing from 'top' to 'bottom', with lots of 'pits' (doorways) and difficult to reach passages, air vents to sneak through and all that jazz.
-inside Dev's head. This is the ultra-elite hard area, with literally no exit, because exits are for easy-mode scrubs :P
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 11:24:04 am
For now, the setting and the area is much more important.
Related note, aggulutination. Learn to fear it.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 18, 2016, 11:25:02 am
So there's a time limit?
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 18, 2016, 11:29:54 am
My inspiration came from Don Quixote fighting the windmills.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 11:35:54 am
You guys shouldn't worry too much about the mechanics yet, because I'm not.
For now, the setting and the area is much more important.
Related note, aggulutination. Learn to fear it.
Thing is that setting and area could be different depending on the mechanics, seeing as how they are intertwined to some extend.
Anyways, I'll have to reiterate the earlier question then: what time period/technology level are we talking here?
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 18, 2016, 11:37:23 am
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 11:41:43 am
Roughly, alternate reality 1980's.You guys shouldn't worry too much about the mechanics yet, because I'm not.
For now, the setting and the area is much more important.
Related note, aggulutination. Learn to fear it.
Thing is that setting and area could be different depending on the mechanics, seeing as how they are intertwined to some extend.
Anyways, I'll have to reiterate the earlier question then: what time period/technology level are we talking here?
Also, I know, but I'm saying that it's a little too early to worry about exactly how to handle the guy who walks into a combat driven RPG with nothing but a box of bandaids and still wants to level up.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 11:46:08 am
So things like modern firearms, computers and the like are to be expected? Or are you still planning to make it melee-focused?Roughly, alternate reality 1980's.You guys shouldn't worry too much about the mechanics yet, because I'm not.
For now, the setting and the area is much more important.
Related note, aggulutination. Learn to fear it.
Thing is that setting and area could be different depending on the mechanics, seeing as how they are intertwined to some extend.
Anyways, I'll have to reiterate the earlier question then: what time period/technology level are we talking here?
Also, I know, but I'm saying that it's a little too early to worry about exactly how to handle the guy who walks into a combat driven RPG with nothing but a box of bandaids and still wants to level up.
One cool thing you could consider is like in that helldivers game, where you have scouts who sounds the alarm that attracts enemies when they see you, but if you can evade them or kill them quickly enough they won't. So, once 1 sees you, more scouts also come in to check out the noise, so now you have to juggle killing difficult enemies and killing additional scouts to prevent even more baddies 'spawning in'.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 18, 2016, 11:46:50 am
@Paris: The original, or the xkcd?I was driving back from work and looking at the towers and it came to me, so yes, probably the original one. Although now that you mention it, it does fit nicely with the xkcd one. They could complement each other. The field of giants leading up to the windmill tripods.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 18, 2016, 11:50:13 am
Spoiler: Also, here it is: (click to show/hide)
Post by: Pancaek on March 18, 2016, 12:06:33 pm
Roughly, alternate reality 1980's.
Also, I know, but I'm saying that it's a little too early to worry about exactly how to handle the guy who walks into a combat driven RPG with nothing but a box of bandaids and still wants to level up.
Quote
alternate reality 1980's
Quote
1980's
If tech allows, I want one thing. One thing.
Spoiler: This handsome fascism box (click to show/hide)
Or just about any tonk in general. Rek some demonic fuccbois in 45 tonnes of steel thunder. Pls, P-dubs-sempai, even if it's just once.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 18, 2016, 12:18:41 pm
I bet Syvarris and the other tinker addicts would love that game. It's all about that Armour Penetration and Huge Penetrating Shells. :P
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 12:22:22 pm
1980's computers weren't exactly great. And I'm thinking about how to handle ranged in general. Even if there's no guns there's always gonna be some degree of ranged combat, even if it's just throwing your weapon. Again, thats in the future, I don't even have a single map made, and trying to completely create a system when I don't know what it will need to do yet or how it will need to do it is silly.So things like modern firearms, computers and the like are to be expected? Or are you still planning to make it melee-focused?Roughly, alternate reality 1980's.You guys shouldn't worry too much about the mechanics yet, because I'm not.
For now, the setting and the area is much more important.
Related note, aggulutination. Learn to fear it.
Thing is that setting and area could be different depending on the mechanics, seeing as how they are intertwined to some extend.
Anyways, I'll have to reiterate the earlier question then: what time period/technology level are we talking here?
Also, I know, but I'm saying that it's a little too early to worry about exactly how to handle the guy who walks into a combat driven RPG with nothing but a box of bandaids and still wants to level up.
One cool thing you could consider is like in that helldivers game, where you have scouts who sounds the alarm that attracts enemies when they see you, but if you can evade them or kill them quickly enough they won't. So, once 1 sees you, more scouts also come in to check out the noise, so now you have to juggle killing difficult enemies and killing additional scouts to prevent even more baddies 'spawning in'.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 12:33:19 pm
Unless you wanna say that in this reality things like those don't exist yet, though then I kinda wonder why one would set it in that timeperiod to begin with and not an earlier one that fits the idea better.
Anyways, so the best way we can help right now is location ideas and such? Because you did say in the OP to just mention "anything you think is neat".
EDIT: one thing that might be cool, and would serve to explain away a lot of things with technology not being available and the demon city not having been cleansed in nuclear fire, would be to say that this is a reality in which the cold war went hot, and the unholy corruption spawned from the chaos and death that ensued. Kinda like the lich from adventure time, an entity of pure evil and malice spawned from humanity's greatest folly.
Post by: Pancaek on March 18, 2016, 01:30:08 pm
Why have tanks when you can have tank-girls? (http://youtu.be/DuFTp8Z7HGs)God damn, that game is terrible in a hilarious kind of way. The amount of tank/wwII jokes in that one video alone, I lost it at the cosmoline line.
I bet Syvarris and the other tinker addicts would love that game. It's all about that Armour Penetration and Huge Penetrating Shells. :P
Still, Tiger I portrayed as clumsy onee-san with shiny hair accessory and a pearl necklace? 0 outta 10, would not invade poland with.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 01:44:33 pm
Why have tanks when you can have tank-girls? (http://youtu.be/DuFTp8Z7HGs)God damn, that game is terrible in a hilarious kind of way. The amount of tank/wwII jokes in that one video alone, I lost it at the cosmoline line.
I bet Syvarris and the other tinker addicts would love that game. It's all about that Armour Penetration and Huge Penetrating Shells. :P
Still, Tiger I portrayed as clumsy onee-san with shiny hair accessory and a pearl necklace? 0 outta 10, would not invade poland with.
Hmm, if parties normally are restricted to 5 per sortie... driver, gunner, loader, commander and someone to stand on top and look badass brandishing a sword. Yeah, I could see that work!
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 18, 2016, 01:46:48 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 18, 2016, 01:47:47 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on March 18, 2016, 01:48:39 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 02:24:53 pm
Maybe they weren't, but it does open up new avenues for things like weapons, enemies and more. I mean, things like reconnaissance satellites, ballistic missiles and nukes were a thing back then already (in regular reality 1980's at least), having access to one of those would probably influence the gameworld quite a bit. For example, how to explain the demon city not being wiped off the map by volley after volley of nukes? Questions like that would influence the history of the world and how the whole thing behaves, I suspect.
Unless you wanna say that in this reality things like those don't exist yet, though then I kinda wonder why one would set it in that timeperiod to begin with and not an earlier one that fits the idea better.
Anyways, so the best way we can help right now is location ideas and such? Because you did say in the OP to just mention "anything you think is neat".
EDIT: one thing that might be cool, and would serve to explain away a lot of things with technology not being available and the demon city not having been cleansed in nuclear fire, would be to say that this is a reality in which the cold war went hot, and the unholy corruption spawned from the chaos and death that ensued. Kinda like the lich from adventure time, an entity of pure evil and malice spawned from humanity's greatest folly.
Quote
reconnaissance satellites, ballistic missiles and nukes
These will not be in there. Because no.
Quote
one thing that might be cool, and would serve to explain away a lot of things with technology not being available and the demon city not having been cleansed in nuclear fire, would be to say that this is a reality in which the cold war went hot, and the unholy corruption spawned from the chaos and death that ensued.
Shhhhh! No spoilers.
Post by: Pancaek on March 18, 2016, 02:33:13 pm
These will not be in there. Because no.Boo. What about normal artillery? And what about tonks?
Post by: syvarris on March 18, 2016, 02:35:56 pm
Why have tanks when you can have tank-girls? (http://youtu.be/DuFTp8Z7HGs)
I bet Syvarris and the other tinker addicts would love that game. It's all about that Armour Penetration and Huge Penetrating Shells. :P
What? It doesn't feed Tinker addiction unless you can mix'n'match cannons and fuel tanks and armor plating and everything. From the two minutes I watched, I doubt that game has any such thing.
...Still, the primary reason I won't play it is because it costs 20$, and two more google searches didn't find a free download.
@Pancaek
He didn't veto tanks, did he? Just missiles and nukes...
Post by: Pancaek on March 18, 2016, 02:53:59 pm
@PancaekI'm very glad for it. But what about...nuclear tanks?
He didn't veto tanks, did he? Just missiles and nukes...
Spoiler: Chrystler tv-8 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Corsair on March 18, 2016, 07:14:47 pm
That is the stupidest looking tank I have ever seen. Hell they didn't even armour the treads meaning a single well placed charge renders it immobile and a giant nuclear powered artillery target.@PancaekI'm very glad for it. But what about...nuclear tanks?
He didn't veto tanks, did he? Just missiles and nukes...Spoiler: Chrystler tv-8 (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 09:52:59 pm
Also probably incredibly prone to roll over.That is the stupidest looking tank I have ever seen. Hell they didn't even armour the treads meaning a single well placed charge renders it immobile and a giant nuclear powered artillery target.@PancaekI'm very glad for it. But what about...nuclear tanks?
He didn't veto tanks, did he? Just missiles and nukes...Spoiler: Chrystler tv-8 (click to show/hide)
As per the state of the world; I'll tell you what your character would know.
1. Oro, according to current knowledge and myth, is the result of untold atrocities. The land that would become the heart of Oro was so steeped in blood, death and madness that it attained a twisted half-life of its own. The desires and fears which split that blood and bred that madness still drive it, even now. The gallows stood and sought out new men to hang.
2. In the past, just long enough gone that the very last living members of the generation that witnessed it have all finally died, mankind nearly destroyed itself. The exact reasons and methods for this are extremely hotly debated, and you'll get very different interpretations depending on who you ask, even within the same civilization. The Church's position is that the sin of the old world lead to the creation of unholy things which turned against their creators. They are annoyingly vague about what this means.
3. The tech available is an odd mix of artifacts from the past, oddities from the present, and divine objects created by the church. The old lead slingers of the past are effective on the stalking horrors from the north and the unsouled men that harvest the man-fields to the east, but against the demons of Oro, they are no more effective than thrown stones. The weapons of the church, those blessed and faithful in design, are the only ones that deal respectable damage.
Post by: Ozarck on March 18, 2016, 10:19:40 pm
don't you just hate it when some smartass boils your carefully designed world down to a snarky reference to another author's work?
even so, there are similarities :D
Post by: piecewise on March 18, 2016, 10:43:10 pm
Sword of Truth series, go!
don't you just hate it when some smartass boils your carefully designed world down to a snarky reference to another author's work?
even so, there are similarities :D
There are 7 billion minds on earth consuming similar circumstances and media. I've come to terms with the fact that nothing I ever do will not have some at least partial analog elsewhere.
Post by: Doomblade187 on March 19, 2016, 02:08:15 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 19, 2016, 02:15:58 am
Does the part about only holy weapons being effective on the demons mean we are non-firearm, or are there holy guns? Basically, are we talking holy bolt action rifles, or are we talking holy crossbows?Holy handgrenades, obviously. It was proven by Monty Python documentary group that those have existed since middle ages.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 19, 2016, 04:23:09 am
The teamkilling opportunities... please say yes, please say yes...
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 04:57:22 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 19, 2016, 04:58:14 am
So... guns don't work well... does that mean I can have, say, fifteen pistols strapped to my body very cheaply? What with them being a low level weapon?
The teamkilling opportunities... please say yes, please say yes...
Spoiler: Sure you can (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xantalos on March 19, 2016, 04:59:02 am
Post by: Pancaek on March 19, 2016, 06:02:22 am
Spoiler: 10 gorillion hours in paint (click to show/hide)
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 06:09:34 am
Only weapons blessed by the church, eh? Can do.Absolutely beautiful, 10/10 would consecrate Panzer again.Spoiler: 10 gorillion hours in paint (click to show/hide)
Post by: Empiricist on March 19, 2016, 06:25:20 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 06:36:37 am
Post by: Empiricist on March 19, 2016, 06:50:46 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 06:54:43 am
Post by: Empiricist on March 19, 2016, 06:57:07 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 09:51:01 am
The upper classes might be those whose bloodline is regarded as the 'purest'/least corrupted, with marriages kept between a few families to keep them pure. Perhaps the lower classes actually do get more random mutations and degeneracies, though maybe not like the ORO metaphysical corruption and more like a stumpy arm due to bad food and irradiated water sources (thought these two types might stem from the same source for all they know).
There might be a sort of purity police who keep the populace in check ('cleansers' or something like it) and monitor for overt signs of corruption or dissident. Soldiers who get part of themselves corrupted might be viewed a bit ambiguously: on the one hand, they now carry the mark of what they despise most because they weren't good enough, but on the other it shows they actually went out there and fought the damned city.
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 11:43:23 am
Does the part about only holy weapons being effective on the demons mean we are non-firearm, or are there holy guns? Basically, are we talking holy bolt action rifles, or are we talking holy crossbows?
Are there any rules restricting what can be blessed? Or can we just start running into battle, flailing the giant floppy dildos that we've consecrated?What makes something holy isn't simply a blessing, its what its made out of. By definition, a holy weapon is one which works against creatures from ORO. See, in the church's mind, ORO is the ultimate form of evil; all those other things like the unsouled men or inverse children are just off shoots or minor evils comparatively. So anything that can kill creatures of ORO is necessarily divine.But those sorts of weapons are usually made of very strange things and under very specific circumstances. Your average sword has to be made of a particular metal alloy which includes the poisonous metals of the past and 8 years dried human bone marrow. And it has to be forged in a particular manner by a particular smith under the watch of at least 48 blind worshipers.
So bullets are possible, but goddamn they are expensive because they are single use. What you'll more than likely see is arrows or spears or something that can be reused.
Could you give details on this 'religion' or church you refer to? Is it some Abrahamitic offshoot, a pantheon, something vaguely 'spiritual' without going the full monty on specifying god(s) and religious practices?The church is particular in that it is not mono or polytheistic. It doesn't have a god to worship so much as it is an overriding belief that anything which is inhuman is evil, and that humans are the rightful heirs of the world. You know that school of thought behind manifest destiny and divine right and Deus vult? It's like that, but bound up in the very idea of humanity. They believe that humans, in a "Pure and untainted form" are akin to gods in their capacities. The humans of the past fell from their natural pure form and the result was ORO. The humans of now have the mission of purging the world of the mistakes of their ancestors and returning to their natural state.
It's original sin, but it's an original sin you can get rid of through MURDER!
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 11:52:04 am
So, kinda like the 40K thing of the 'holy human form' (deviation of which is heresy, because of course it is) and humanity's 'manifest destiny to rule the galaxy'. A cult of humanity, basically.
Hmm, it could be cool if they have a bunch of smaller 'saints' they honor (if not venerate) if they see them as promoting humanity's interests and destiny. Like Prometheus and such.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 19, 2016, 11:55:21 am
Will this mean that homecrafted stuff is a little complex or limited? Because most people don't carry 47 blind virgins able to sing the Lord's Prayer backwards in their toolkit. So how's that going to work?
Post by: Pancaek on March 19, 2016, 11:57:51 am
Still, I'm digging that church. With that kind of doctrine playing some kind of zealot seems like a lot of fun.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 19, 2016, 11:59:51 am
"Ok, so 47 blind worshipers ululating in D minor didn't work. We're gonna try the rest of the tone ladder, then add another worshiper, and if that doesn't work we try it from the top but in reverse and in pink."
Darn, making a tank with those kind of manufacturing methods doesn't seem very practical. Unless we get a shitload of money and metal.
Still, I'm digging that church. With that kind of doctrine playing some kind of zealot seems like a lot of fun.
Don't have to make the entire tank, just the shells, I think. Machineguns seem right out though. Then again, gatling harpoon launcher...
Post by: AoshimaMichio on March 19, 2016, 12:01:08 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on March 19, 2016, 12:16:22 pm
Post by: Kedly on March 19, 2016, 03:51:13 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on March 19, 2016, 03:59:55 pm
Darn, making a tank with those kind of manufacturing methods doesn't seem very practical. Unless we get a shitload of money and metal.On the contrary, it sounds like a good investment. Imagine how complex making thirty consecrated katana-chainmail-longbow sets would be! A tank on the other hand only needs one set of rites for the casing, barrel, etc, and would let one bring all the holy city enchantments together in one place.
So you don't get the one guy with the superfast boots, one with the ultrastrong bow, one with the massive glowing sword, one with the energy-conversion armour, etc, due to player funds limits, but instead get all of these. So a high speed tank with an extremely powerful frontal bow, a massive red hot ramming spike and armour that gets stronger the more you hit it.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 19, 2016, 04:01:41 pm
What about transforming/upgrading already existing weapons? The legendary sword getting shattered during a battle with a demon and then getting reformed into two knives, one partially corrupted, one pure. Or more likely, getting your holy baseball bat and upgrading it with electrified barbed wire.
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 04:46:39 pm
So... some experimentation wil be involved in finding out what actually works on ORO? Because most weapons don't?Nah, we have seers for that. But it does mean that if you want that new sword, you're gonna have to bring us something specific. Probably something from inside ORO. And that for weapons at least, they need to be made by someone other than yourself.
Will this mean that homecrafted stuff is a little complex or limited? Because most people don't carry 47 blind virgins able to sing the Lord's Prayer backwards in their toolkit. So how's that going to work?
Are we able to play as someone who isn't a follower of the church?Sure, you can play as a dead man.
I mean, you can go in with zero faith if you want, but I don't think your teammates will want to stand too close.
Eh, the problem is getting it INTO Oro. From the outside it won't do any good. Even on the inside you'll need to be smart. Raw destructive power isn't whats needed. You need to be like a virus, you need to establish a foothold and grow. You go in there swinging hard and you'll be swarmed and killed in a few minutes. And then your tank will be torn apart, the armor used to patch the holes you blew and the cannon incorporated into the walls to shoot at you.Darn, making a tank with those kind of manufacturing methods doesn't seem very practical. Unless we get a shitload of money and metal.On the contrary, it sounds like a good investment. Imagine how complex making thirty consecrated katana-chainmail-longbow sets would be! A tank on the other hand only needs one set of rites for the casing, barrel, etc, and would let one bring all the holy city enchantments together in one place.
So you don't get the one guy with the superfast boots, one with the ultrastrong bow, one with the massive glowing sword, one with the energy-conversion armour, etc, due to player funds limits, but instead get all of these. So a high speed tank with an extremely powerful frontal bow, a massive red hot ramming spike and armour that gets stronger the more you hit it.
These early raids on oro are gonna be hot drops, every one.
Post by: Xantalos on March 19, 2016, 05:21:44 pm
Post by: Ozarck on March 19, 2016, 08:52:32 pm
The eighties tech level I could live with, but this just feels fundamentally wrong to me. Not, mind you, because of my monotheism. rather, it feels self contradictory and just begging for plot holes.
I hope you don't take this knee jerk reaction too harshly, but the church as described raises more questions for me than answers, and any character I play who isn't a straightforward grunt that I don't give a shit about would probably fall to the dark side pretty early on.
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 09:31:46 pm
Eh. "Church of Human Purity" kills it for me. that makes it feel like there is a bit of a forced attitude about life for the player characters - one subscribes to the "those things are bad because they are different" worldview, and must push a species ideal, rather than fight for something greater. I, as a monotheist IRL, could get behind even a polytheist religion in-game, or into a game such as ER where the multiverse is a mess with no clear religious overtone, but this feels like a forced faith -which makes the city of holiness a brittle, self decaying thing itself, and one almost not worth defending.I never said their faith was RIGHT, did I?
The eighties tech level I could live with, but this just feels fundamentally wrong to me. Not, mind you, because of my monotheism. rather, it feels self contradictory and just begging for plot holes.
I hope you don't take this knee jerk reaction too harshly, but the church as described raises more questions for me than answers, and any character I play who isn't a straightforward grunt that I don't give a shit about would probably fall to the dark side pretty early on.
Something I don't think people get is that I'm showing you things from the perspective of one civilization. Their faith is their own, and its one of many. And their city wasn't the first targeted and it won't be the last. Their faith is their own, not one I'm prescribing to the universe. And considering how actively alien, frightening and hostile the world around them is, I think it's quite understandable that they'd choose to believe in humanity.
I mean, I don't know which god you follow, but could you really tell yourself he was loving and rewarding and something worth your faith if all the world seemed your enemy? Even early Christians believed in a jealous, angry god that punished them for minor slights. And they didn't have nightmare beasts roaming just outside the walls. Also, I'll play the jerk card here and say that there is no religion that isn't full of holes unless it is extremely metaphysical and hands off. I mean, like this:
"Why did god give adam and eve free will if he punished them for using it?"
People can argue that for hundreds of years. And the thing is that there's no answer that will satisfy everyone.
If people want a pantheon or something different because the "Go humanity!" faith is too 40k for their liking, I can give you one. I can even make it so that the gods are all different enough so that people can do what they like.
But I stress this: There is going to be one religion, and there are no atheists here. Others exist elsewhere in the world but this isn't about them.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 19, 2016, 09:57:04 pm
And their city wasn't the first targeted and it won't be the last."Won't be the last" is a bit fatalistic, isn't it? :P
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 10:12:49 pm
Human digestion involves a lot less centipede demons.
Post by: spazyak on March 19, 2016, 10:25:05 pm
Post by: Whisperling on March 19, 2016, 10:30:59 pm
Human digestion involves a lot less centipede demons.
So... kind of like gut bacteria?
Now I'm wondering whether ORO is lactose intolerant.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 19, 2016, 10:35:44 pm
Like... humans?
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 10:40:44 pm
Hmm, a type of nutrient that the city can not make use of, but it's ecosystem can?Nah, it renders those down quite well actually. The stuff it kicks back tends to be soil and sand and similar things.
Like... humans?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 19, 2016, 10:45:04 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 19, 2016, 10:50:47 pm
Do certain humans taste bad?Taste isn't really something it understands.
So is Oro basically crawling through the guts of an eldritch space horror?Something like that.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 19, 2016, 10:54:37 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on March 19, 2016, 11:27:30 pm
Sooo, we kill it by dropping a sand dune on it?Hmm, a type of nutrient that the city can not make use of, but it's ecosystem can?Nah, it renders those down quite well actually. The stuff it kicks back tends to be soil and sand and similar things.
Like... humans?
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 19, 2016, 11:45:11 pm
Drop a mountain!Sooo, we kill it by dropping a sand dune on it?Hmm, a type of nutrient that the city can not make use of, but it's ecosystem can?Nah, it renders those down quite well actually. The stuff it kicks back tends to be soil and sand and similar things.
Like... humans?
No, wait, drop the moon! Do it on an evening that the moon is magical, so that it also counts as a magic weapon.
"We choose to go to the moon and do the other things, not because it is easy, but because we want to drop it on the city of demons."
Post by: Ozarck on March 20, 2016, 12:04:54 am
I never said their faith was RIGHT, did I?No, but you said a few things. 1) the Holy city represents all that is good and right and all that. 2) faith is the defining factor of the PC. 3) there is one religion (in the game) and all PCs belong to it.
Quote
Something I don't think people get is that I'm showing you things from the perspective of one civilization. Their faith is their own, and its one of many. And their city wasn't the first targeted and it won't be the last. Their faith is their own, not one I'm prescribing to the universe. And considering how actively alien, frightening and hostile the world around them is, I think it's quite understandable that they'd choose to believe in humanity.Typically, the more hostile and alien a people view the world as, the less faith they have in humanity and our power to affect it. They tend to be fatalists instead, attributing everything to some inviolable rule, laid down by beings beyond their power to influence at all.
Quote
I mean, I don't know which god you follow, but could you really tell yourself he was loving and rewarding and something worth your faith if all the world seemed your enemy? Even early Christians believed in a jealous, angry god that punished them for minor slights. And they didn't have nightmare beasts roaming just outside the walls. Also, I'll play the jerk card here and say that there is no religion that isn't full of holes unless it is extremely metaphysical and hands off. I mean, like this:These are the kinds of issues I would discuss with someone genuinely interested in my viewpoint, not someone simply trying to make a point. One invites conversation, the other invites scorekeeping.
"Why did god give adam and eve free will if he punished them for using it?"
Besides, this isn't about my real life faith, or yours. it's about the faith system in the game. Early on in the description of the game, you were talking about how the holy city is essentially a sort of last bastion of all that is good and holy, and that faith was to be the driving force causing these people to seek out and destroy something very wicked. I was intrigued because the nature of holiness and wickedness are things I am interested in. "Humanity rocks" just seems a rather difficult sell for a "Faith." Especially if a) the whole world around them is alien and hostile - that would militate against humanity as some sort of ultimate Power, and b) humans are corrupt, selfish, argumentative beings, and the "Holy city" is full of strife, spite, and unpleasantness - which would militate against "humanity" being some sort of ultimate "Good."
Quote
People can argue that for hundreds of years. And the thing is that there's no answer that will satisfy everyone.People can argue bronyism for hundreds of years. or cats vs dogs. or CoD vs Battlefield. Or Coke vs Pepsi.
Quote
If people want a pantheon or something different because the "Go humanity!" faith is too 40k for their liking, I can give you one. I can even make it so that the gods are all different enough so that people can do what they like.I cold see polytheism. I could see monotheism. I could see faith in science. I cold see that extremely metaphysical and hands off faith you mentioned before. But my gut reaction to the faith in humanity as currently described is still "politics, corruption, and powerlessness will have soured the faith of most before this even starts."
But I stress this: There is going to be one religion, and there are no atheists here. Others exist elsewhere in the world but this isn't about them.
Of course, if you are talking about a bunch of teenagers, not yet jaded by the ways of the world, and a few True Believers ... well, there are always some of those.
Well, I'd like if there was some venerated figures or something. Someone or something to represent the ideal of humanity, and the faith as a whole other than "oro bad". Basically, give me an Emperor of Mankind to believe in. Not necessarily a single figure, could be a series of saints, or an oppressed but worshipped underclass of martyrs, or an ancient and wise AI from The Old Days, or some vague spirit.Well, if the PCs go in with that attitude, their faith meter is going to drop pretty quickly, anyway.And their city wasn't the first targeted and it won't be the last."Won't be the last" is a bit fatalistic, isn't it? :P
Post by: The Lupanian on March 20, 2016, 01:32:23 am
I'm cool with whatever, I think I cold really make an interesting character that fits the rules more, but I just want to know before I get too attached to one concept.
Also, how long has the church been around? Because if the concept I described wouldn't work I have an idea that might.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 20, 2016, 02:37:36 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 20, 2016, 05:13:57 am
Quote
Eh, the problem is getting it INTO Oro. From the outside it won't do any good. Even on the inside you'll need to be smart. Raw destructive power isn't whats needed. You need to be like a virus, you need to establish a foothold and grow. You go in there swinging hard and you'll be swarmed and killed in a few minutes. And then your tank will be torn apart, the armor used to patch the holes you blew and the cannon incorporated into the walls to shoot at you.
I think the tank wouldn't engage enemies directly right off the bat, it'd be more like we escort the tank until we find a target worthy for it to shoot (boss monster, demon nest, etc).
Also, what, a virus? PW, you know some biology, you know better. Are we going to subvert parts of the city to replicate ourselves? Is that what you're getting at here?! WE BREEDING INSIDE DEMONS NOW PW?
Quote
These early raids on oro are gonna be hot drops, every one.Sounds fantastic. Can you tell us though if the missions will be 'freeroam' (do what you want) or if we'll get specific objectives from npc's?
Quote
Eh. "Church of Human Purity" kills it for me. that makes it feel like there is a bit of a forced attitude about life for the player characters - one subscribes to the "those things are bad because they are different" worldview, and must push a species ideal, rather than fight for something greater. I, as a monotheist IRL, could get behind even a polytheist religion in-game, or into a game such as ER where the multiverse is a mess with no clear religious overtone, but this feels like a forced faith -which makes the city of holiness a brittle, self decaying thing itself, and one almost not worth defending.
Well, like I said, I think it's realistic to expect that a society that's so pressured would be very oppressive and not really welcoming of new ideas or dissent of any kind. And I don't know if the player faction should always be the bastion of goodness, liberty and progressive ideals. Still, doesn't mean a character can't have his or her own ideals to fight for while keeping up appearances outwardly.
Quote
I never said their faith was RIGHT, did I?
'Right' is a bit of a empty term, but what we do know is that it works. From your own words, non-believers are corrupted easily, their seers are capable of divining ways of making weapons that can harm the demons. Maybe the key is more in believing in something rather than this specific thing, but for the people in this city the choice is clear: believe what the church/state tell you to, or succumb to corruption, no way around it.
Quote
If people want a pantheon or something different because the "Go humanity!" faith is too 40k for their liking, I can give you one. I can even make it so that the gods are all different enough so that people can do what they like.
But I stress this: There is going to be one religion, and there are no atheists here. Others exist elsewhere in the world but this isn't about them.
I'd like "Go humanity!" much more than a pantheon personally, especially if that's how you originally envisioned it, seems like that'd mesh best with the game world, lore and 'tone' as it exists now. One could make a case that making the game more open so people have more options to do as they please is a good thing though. But then they should've picked something other than ORO it seems, it felt like a "play it right or you die, period" kinda game. Seeing what one can do in a much stricter than usual framework can be interesting, make people really work to stand out and be more than another grunt (both in in-game actions and roleplaying options).
Quote
Human digestion involves a lot less centipede demons.
Yeah right. You knock out the wrong gene, next thing you know your mice are sprouting rending claws and turning inside out while chanting backwards Sumerian. It's this whole thing, very annoying, especially cause they keep eating the control mice so now the journal refuses to publish the results.
Quote
Typically, the more hostile and alien a people view the world as, the less faith they have in humanity and our power to affect it. They tend to be fatalists instead, attributing everything to some inviolable rule, laid down by beings beyond their power to influence at all
I dunno, given how little we know how this society evolved and came to be, I dunno if this should inevitably happen. Hell, maybe there were a bunch of cities out there who thought like that, but said viewpoint led to them not having the strength and conviction to oppose the demon city so they were wiped off the map. Maybe it takes a 'humanity rules, demon city drools' attitude to even get to a point where a city forms an organised resistance, so that's where the focus of the story naturally goes to.
Quote
Early on in the description of the game, you were talking about how the holy city is essentially a sort of last bastion of all that is good and holy, and that faith was to be the driving force causing these people to seek out and destroy something very wicked. I was intrigued because the nature of holiness and wickedness are things I am interested in. "Humanity rocks" just seems a rather difficult sell for a "Faith." Especially if a) the whole world around them is alien and hostile - that would militate against humanity as some sort of ultimate Power, and b) humans are corrupt, selfish, argumentative beings, and the "Holy city" is full of strife, spite, and unpleasantness - which would militate against "humanity" being some sort of ultimate "Good."
All sorts of religions and belief systems can have contradictory tenets or things that just don't really make sense but are covered by platitudes or just ignored when convenient. I personally don't really see an issue with this kind of belief system getting a foothold given the circumstances, especially because, again, we know it works in universe. Believing in 'humanity fuck yeah' becomes much easier when you keep seeing that scores of people who don't believe that get destroyed.
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 09:40:19 am
So, could we play a character that sees the faith in a different way? For example, I had an idea for a character that believes in a tribal god that is a god of purity, and they wanted to cleanse ORO because it is corruption. Would that work with the way the church is, would they accept a follower such as this if their core belief is to cleanse ORO, or would that be another religion and there for not a valid character?Look at it like gods in a roguelike. If I set up a pantheon, then there will probably be bonuses affixed to it and worship of it. If you want to worship some other god you can but mechanically it will be essentially the same as being without a god and without those bonuses. The only thing I could do is have some sort of generic "Other" slot that gives generic bonuses and requests generic things. but that won't mesh will with 99% of player created gods, I'm sure.
I'm cool with whatever, I think I cold really make an interesting character that fits the rules more, but I just want to know before I get too attached to one concept.
Also, how long has the church been around? Because if the concept I described wouldn't work I have an idea that might.
Quote
Also, what, a virus? PW, you know some biology, you know better. Are we going to subvert parts of the city to replicate ourselves? Is that what you're getting at here?! WE BREEDING INSIDE DEMONS NOW PW?Inside demons, no, but we are going to have to disguise our settlements if we get into the body of oro proper. Make it think we're part of it while we set up shop and live there. Because otherwise we'd be a single small colony of bacteria against the might of a mechanized immune system. We'll be playing the generalized virus role of using parts of oro to hide ourselves in while we gather power. Gotta hijack that MHC.
Quote
Sounds fantastic. Can you tell us though if the missions will be 'freeroam' (do what you want) or if we'll get specific objectives from npc's?
It will be a combination of exploration and a goal. I mean, you guys can go out and do whatever you want, but the goal will be making it to the next place you can set up a base and securing it. Thats the general way to make progress. Because ORO can always make more demons, it can always heal itself. You can go hunting if you want something specific, but in the end the only way to really open that shortcut deeper into oro is to establish another foothold. Though there's only so many of those you can establish either. Takes time and effort to do.
Quote
I'd like "Go humanity!" much more than a pantheon personally
Why do people do this to me.
Post by: Pancaek on March 20, 2016, 09:51:46 am
Why do people do this to me.Maybe have a pantheon, with one god being an ascended former human who's preachings are "humanity fuck yeah"? This we we can have our donut and jam it into our cake and eat all of it.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 20, 2016, 10:55:15 am
Quote
Inside demons, no, but we are going to have to disguise our settlements if we get into the body of oro proper. Make it think we're part of it while we set up shop and live there. Because otherwise we'd be a single small colony of bacteria against the might of a mechanized immune system. We'll be playing the generalized virus role of using parts of oro to hide ourselves in while we gather power. Gotta hijack that MHC.Ah, I see, ok then. So kinda like molecular mimicry, to keep up the biology analogy. I'd argue certain types of bacteria or parasites might fit better, but then again the virus analogy might explain it more evocatively to others. Does this imply that players characters can also try to camouflage themselves to evade detection inside the city, making it into a sort of stealth game at certain points?
Quote
Why do people do this to me.Because you made the classic mistake of listening to us, the unwashed masses, instead of ignoring the mewling plebs and just doing your thing.
But seriously, you can almost never really satisfy everyone, so maybe just take in the various arguments but in the end do what you feel works best. Whatever that turns out to be, we'll just learn to live with it.
Quote
It will be a combination of exploration and a goal. I mean, you guys can go out and do whatever you want, but the goal will be making it to the next place you can set up a base and securing it. Thats the general way to make progress. Because ORO can always make more demons, it can always heal itself. You can go hunting if you want something specific, but in the end the only way to really open that shortcut deeper into oro is to establish another foothold. Though there's only so many of those you can establish either. Takes time and effort to do."Some freedom, but not total freedom, with clear subgoals to work towards" then? Sounds good to me!
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 11:59:27 am
Well...sort of. See, Oro is both ecology and anatomy. There are lots of kinds of demons in ORO; the "Blood of ORO" demons are those which exist and act entirely to maintain ORO itself. And the majority of them will ignore anything that does not pose an active threat to ORO's systems or to themselves. The dog sized spider demon who changes light bulbs isn't gonna flip its shit and attack you unless you attack it or start smashing lights. But when you do aggro them, if they can get away, they'll inform what amounts to the immune system. This can also happen if the "immune" demons just happen to see you. And the thing is, once the immune demons see you, they are just gonna keep coming, and in greater and greater numbers. So it would be smart to not start trouble unless you need to, at least with them.QuoteInside demons, no, but we are going to have to disguise our settlements if we get into the body of oro proper. Make it think we're part of it while we set up shop and live there. Because otherwise we'd be a single small colony of bacteria against the might of a mechanized immune system. We'll be playing the generalized virus role of using parts of oro to hide ourselves in while we gather power. Gotta hijack that MHC.Ah, I see, ok then. So kinda like molecular mimicry, to keep up the biology analogy. I'd argue certain types of bacteria or parasites might fit better, but then again the virus analogy might explain it more evocatively to others. Does this imply that players characters can also try to camouflage themselves to evade detection inside the city, making it into a sort of stealth game at certain points?
But there are lots of other demons around which don't ignore you. These are ones born from assimilated lands or ones that act like parasites or beneficial bacteria in your gut or anything like that. And what they do depends largely on where you are and what they are.
Post by: Ozarck on March 20, 2016, 12:57:34 pm
Every human believes mutually contradictory things, religious or not. Scientists do it as much as anyone else. But, again, When the universe is shown to be 'alien and hostile' or believed to be, pessimism and fatalism are the main human reactions - not optimism and self confidence. When scores are dying who militate against the "humans are the best" ideology, and millions who hold it are dying at the same time, then the 'humans are great' crowd becomes the anti-vaccine crowd, and is riduculed by the masses. There cognitive dissonance, and there is flatearth fanaticism.QuoteEarly on in the description of the game, you were talking about how the holy city is essentially a sort of last bastion of all that is good and holy, and that faith was to be the driving force causing these people to seek out and destroy something very wicked. I was intrigued because the nature of holiness and wickedness are things I am interested in. "Humanity rocks" just seems a rather difficult sell for a "Faith." Especially if a) the whole world around them is alien and hostile - that would militate against humanity as some sort of ultimate Power, and b) humans are corrupt, selfish, argumentative beings, and the "Holy city" is full of strife, spite, and unpleasantness - which would militate against "humanity" being some sort of ultimate "Good."
All sorts of religions and belief systems can have contradictory tenets or things that just don't really make sense but are covered by platitudes or just ignored when convenient. I personally don't really see an issue with this kind of belief system getting a foothold given the circumstances, especially because, again, we know it works in universe. Believing in 'humanity fuck yeah' becomes much easier when you keep seeing that scores of people who don't believe that get destroyed.
PW, go with the humanity is great religion. Just stick with it and push through. the connection between the holiness of the Holy City and the Wickedness of Oro were interesting to me, and I felt that I could make a character that had an impact. Now, I'll likely just make a grunt and shoot what I am told to shoot. Roleplay down, action and quickness of turns up.
So: Stealth and placement (choice of base location) are more important than dakka and dominance? "Do what you awnt, but you have limited resources and the only thing that matters is the heart?"Well...sort of. See, Oro is both ecology and anatomy. There are lots of kinds of demons in ORO; the "Blood of ORO" demons are those which exist and act entirely to maintain ORO itself. And the majority of them will ignore anything that does not pose an active threat to ORO's systems or to themselves. The dog sized spider demon who changes light bulbs isn't gonna flip its shit and attack you unless you attack it or start smashing lights. But when you do aggro them, if they can get away, they'll inform what amounts to the immune system. This can also happen if the "immune" demons just happen to see you. And the thing is, once the immune demons see you, they are just gonna keep coming, and in greater and greater numbers. So it would be smart to not start trouble unless you need to, at least with them.QuoteInside demons, no, but we are going to have to disguise our settlements if we get into the body of oro proper. Make it think we're part of it while we set up shop and live there. Because otherwise we'd be a single small colony of bacteria against the might of a mechanized immune system. We'll be playing the generalized virus role of using parts of oro to hide ourselves in while we gather power. Gotta hijack that MHC.Ah, I see, ok then. So kinda like molecular mimicry, to keep up the biology analogy. I'd argue certain types of bacteria or parasites might fit better, but then again the virus analogy might explain it more evocatively to others. Does this imply that players characters can also try to camouflage themselves to evade detection inside the city, making it into a sort of stealth game at certain points?
But there are lots of other demons around which don't ignore you. These are ones born from assimilated lands or ones that act like parasites or beneficial bacteria in your gut or anything like that. And what they do depends largely on where you are and what they are.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 20, 2016, 02:38:55 pm
Quote
Every human believes mutually contradictory things, religious or not. Scientists do it as much as anyone else.Perhaps, but the point I was trying to make is that it's possible for humans to have belief systems that are self-contradictory and sometimes even contradict the facts even as those blatantly in sight for all to see. So believing that humanity has the potential to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and is the rightful owner of the earth, even though right now it isn't on either front, doesn't seem extremely far-fetched, at least not to me.
Quote
But, again, When the universe is shown to be 'alien and hostile' or believed to be, pessimism and fatalism are the main human reactions - not optimism and self confidence.
I dunno about this. I can see where you're coming from, there's examples in history of oppressed people or people in generally shitty situations having a grim outlook on life and internalizing this, but on the other hand there's also plenty of examples of people rising up against their lot in life, despite others having died for that before them and the chance of success seeming very slim to non-existent. That there would be societies where 'pessimism and fatalism' would become the prevalent atmosphere I am certainly willing to believe, but saying that this is necessarily so seems like a bridge too far. Unless you have data or sources that prove otherwise? I'd honestly be interested in learning more in that case.
Quote
When scores are dying who militate against the "humans are the best" ideology, and millions who hold it are dying at the same time, then the 'humans are great' crowd becomes the anti-vaccine crowd, and is riduculed by the masses. There cognitive dissonance, and there is flatearth fanaticism.
I don't think we don't know enough about the world outside the holy city and ORO to really say how well different belief systems hold up under scrutiny. If pw says "every city until now had a different belief system and has fallen, while ours is the first to have a fighting chance" then it makes sense, if he says "other communities have different ways of handling the demon incursions, and some of those work equally well/better/good enough against the cursed city" then the situation becomes very different. All that we do seem to know for sure so far is that those who believe "gogo humanity #1" in this society are corrupted less easily than those who don't believe. That's a real, tangible reason why in this case, in this community, believing what the church says is better than not.
Of course, if there are other ways of attaining this 'extra protection' against corruption the situation might change, but as far as I know we haven't seen a lot of evidence for that yet, and even if that were the case the different communities might be separated enough to prevent knowledge of the alternative solutions from being communicated or spread.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 20, 2016, 02:54:46 pm
Quote from: Orzack
Every human believes mutually contradictory things, religious or not. Scientists do it as much as anyone else. But, again, When the universe is shown to be 'alien and hostile' or believed to be, pessimism and fatalism are the main human reactions - not optimism and self confidence. When scores are dying who militate against the "humans are the best" ideology, and millions who hold it are dying at the same time, then the 'humans are great' crowd becomes the anti-vaccine crowd, and is riduculed by the masses. There cognitive dissonance, and there is flatearth fanaticism.
Erm... the premise of a "humanity is great" religion succeeding is totally logical if the promise of future success and lordship over the earth is given.
I mean, life was shit in the middle ages, but people practised the christian faith because they believed in a heaven (in the future, for them) in which the "God is good" statement would be shown to be true, although it was less simple on earth.
I see a direct analogy with the most popular faith in the world, at any rate.
Might be misunderstanding what Orzack is saying, but there's my two cents.
And if that's the case, victory over the omnicidal, unkillable ORO could represent victory over the world. So the Church is fighting the last and only real battle.
Post by: Ozarck on March 20, 2016, 03:25:20 pm
I won't argue that life was heaven in the middle ages, but it was probably not worsethan it is in many societies today - better than in some war torm and famine struck places for most, probably. Sure life was shit during the plagues, but most people probably worked the land and lived their lives relatively unmolested (aside form the usual which is as prevalent today as then).Quote from: OrzackEvery human believes mutually contradictory things, religious or not. Scientists do it as much as anyone else. But, again, When the universe is shown to be 'alien and hostile' or believed to be, pessimism and fatalism are the main human reactions - not optimism and self confidence. When scores are dying who militate against the "humans are the best" ideology, and millions who hold it are dying at the same time, then the 'humans are great' crowd becomes the anti-vaccine crowd, and is riduculed by the masses. There cognitive dissonance, and there is flatearth fanaticism.
Erm... the premise of a "humanity is great" religion succeeding is totally logical if the promise of future success and lordship over the earth is given.
I mean, life was shit in the middle ages, but people practised the christian faith because they believed in a heaven (in the future, for them) in which the "God is good" statement would be shown to be true, although it was less simple on earth.
I see a direct analogy with the most popular faith in the world, at any rate.
Might be misunderstanding what Orzack is saying, but there's my two cents.
And if that's the case, victory over the omnicidal, unkillable ORO could represent victory over the world. So the Church is fighting the last and only real battle.
but, your example includes a faith in "God" - a power far outside of humanity itself. the argument is that faith in humanity is the religion. No god, no ouside source of power - humanity itself.
QuoteEvery human believes mutually contradictory things, religious or not. Scientists do it as much as anyone else.Perhaps, but the point I was trying to make is that it's possible for humans to have belief systems that are self-contradictory and sometimes even contradict the facts even as those blatantly in sight for all to see. So believing that humanity has the potential to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and is the rightful owner of the earth, even though right now it isn't on either front, doesn't seem extremely far-fetched, at least not to me.QuoteBut, again, When the universe is shown to be 'alien and hostile' or believed to be, pessimism and fatalism are the main human reactions - not optimism and self confidence.
I dunno about this. I can see where you're coming from, there's examples in history of oppressed people or people in generally shitty situations having a grim outlook on life and internalizing this, but on the other hand there's also plenty of examples of people rising up against their lot in life, despite others having died for that before them and the chance of success seeming very slim to non-existent. That there would be societies where 'pessimism and fatalism' would become the prevalent atmosphere I am certainly willing to believe, but saying that this is necessarily so seems like a bridge too far. Unless you have data or sources that prove otherwise? I'd honestly be interested in learning more in that case.QuoteWhen scores are dying who militate against the "humans are the best" ideology, and millions who hold it are dying at the same time, then the 'humans are great' crowd becomes the anti-vaccine crowd, and is riduculed by the masses. There cognitive dissonance, and there is flatearth fanaticism.
I don't think we don't know enough about the world outside the holy city and ORO to really say how well different belief systems hold up under scrutiny. If pw says "every city until now had a different belief system and has fallen, while ours is the first to have a fighting chance" then it makes sense, if he says "other communities have different ways of handling the demon incursions, and some of those work equally well/better/good enough against the cursed city" then the situation becomes very different. All that we do seem to know for sure so far is that those who believe "gogo humanity #1" in this society are corrupted less easily than those who don't believe. That's a real, tangible reason why in this case, in this community, believing what the church says is better than not.
Of course, if there are other ways of attaining this 'extra protection' against corruption the situation might change, but as far as I know we haven't seen a lot of evidence for that yet, and even if that were the case the different communities might be separated enough to prevent knowledge of the alternative solutions from being communicated or spread.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 03:47:24 pm
That way we keep the general feel of xenophobic zealousness but we can appeal to higher powers who love us because we are so great.
Post by: Ozarck on March 20, 2016, 03:59:55 pm
How about this, "Go humanity parenthesis because we are the chosen creations of god destined to retake the lands close parenthesis"Piecewise, to me that is an acceptable compromise. But, I want you to know that it is probably completely unnecessary. 98% of the player base is likely unconcerned with the mechanics behind the religion of the holy city, and for me it's more the idea of holiness to begin with. I think I got everything off my chest now, and have reoriented myself to the game world with different expectations. Forgive me if I derailed the conversation - I studied human history, culture, leadership, language, communication, and religion, among other subjects, for ten years post secondary, so I got a little personally excited to play in a world - no to help develop (and possibly even help manage) a world - in which the themes of holiness and faith played a major role. That was kind a unrealistic of me. But thank you for taking it into consideration. I am glad I was heard. it means a lot to me.
That way we keep the general feel of xenophobic zealousness but we can appeal to higher powers who love us because we are so great.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 20, 2016, 04:17:23 pm
I feel like if the enemy is absolutely 100% evil, it makes sense that the players would be a little good.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 20, 2016, 05:37:02 pm
I don't know much beyond the basics about any religion, but from what little I know, I think it would be fun to see something that combines a non-western take on religion with traditional western holy concepts. Maybe something Aztec combined with Catholicism. Blood sacrifices combined with the crucifixion or the holy communion. Miracles performed by gathering the skulls of slain demons and arranging them in catacombs. Matches of Demon-ball, where the loser gets sacrificed to the great dragon to absolve the winner of their sins, while a choir sings ominous Latin chants. Stuff like that.
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 06:08:43 pm
Gonna involve spinnerets.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 20, 2016, 06:18:47 pm
Post by: Empiricist on March 20, 2016, 06:21:34 pm
We're at an odd place where I'm sitting here reading about textile recycling and wondering how to do that with demons.Everything is spiders forever. The End.
Gonna involve spinnerets.
They might have abdomens that look like those bits at the end of a cement truck, and they'll consume fabrics, using their own digestive systems to recycle them and store in in their abdomens for later extrusion.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 20, 2016, 06:23:44 pm
No no, that's the old one, you're thinking of The Fear.We're at an odd place where I'm sitting here reading about textile recycling and wondering how to do that with demons.Everything is spiders forever. The End.
Gonna involve spinnerets.
Post by: Empiricist on March 20, 2016, 06:29:20 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on March 20, 2016, 06:42:26 pm
That would explain why the materials are so expensive, it would explain why the process to make the materials is so complex, it would explain why the materials have to come out of ORO for player crafting, and it would just be kinda cool and metaphorical.
I also really like the idea that there is no "Holy" healing, so to heal your wounds you have to use demon magic and just hope it doesn't corrupt you. Maybe one of the crafting ingredients could be corrupted flesh.
Post by: Pancaek on March 20, 2016, 06:44:36 pm
I could still do that, but I question the wisdom of consuming demons, especially without a nice sauce.
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 06:48:11 pm
It's too bad everything inside ORO is demonic as fuck. Otherwise I might have tried going full dungeon meshi and just cook and eat everything we came across.I wouldn't recommend the blood of Oro ones. Mostly made of inorganic things, those.
I could still do that, but I question the wisdom of consuming demons, especially without a nice sauce.
But eating parts of demons might be good in some cases.
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 07:08:03 pm
I had an idea for the holy weapons. You could do it that the weapons have to be made out of corrupted materials (Flayed man blood, demon bile, ghoul bone, you get the point) then that material has to be "purified" by the church so it can be used against ORO. Kinda like how you make a vaccine by weakening a virus then re-injecting it into the immune system. The materials have to be cleansed corruption because only corruption can destroy corruption.Thats actually very close. Remember, crafting stuff with demon guts!
That would explain why the materials are so expensive, it would explain why the process to make the materials is so complex, it would explain why the materials have to come out of ORO for player crafting, and it would just be kinda cool and metaphorical.
I also really like the idea that there is no "Holy" healing, so to heal your wounds you have to use demon magic and just hope it doesn't corrupt you. Maybe one of the crafting ingredients could be corrupted flesh.
How about animated armor in the shapes of spiders with blade-like limbs and concrete mixers for abdomens? They'll consume textiles, and their digestive systems will turn them into annelid-like demon threads. These threadworms weave themselves together to make fabrics and die afterwards, before use they are stored in armorspider, with many of them poking out like hairs. In combat, they get launched at foes by the armorspiders, weaving into the very flesh of their victims, trying to sow shut their arteries and orifices.Neat, semi-related, but not quite.
Post by: Pancaek on March 20, 2016, 07:11:41 pm
But eating parts of demons might be good in some cases.We going full snake eater up in this bitch. Be like the Charles Darwin of ORO and eat a piece of every new demon we find. Be like the Gordon Ramsey of ORO and call teammembers tossers because the demon is still fookin' raw.
Post by: crazyabe on March 20, 2016, 08:32:03 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 20, 2016, 10:07:08 pm
I think I'll like this; it's been a while since I played a zealot. Sure Lars is nice, but ... well, he's nice. And the one frothing-at-the-mouth raving lunatic we had tried to krump Renen.
He's nice to ARM troopers. The unfaithful see no mercy. Remember, he got sent to the HMRC for raiding and firebombing a police station because a cop tore up his prayer book.
Post by: syvarris on March 20, 2016, 10:13:12 pm
That's a neat idea, though kinda the opposite of cancer. A cancerous demon would be overproductive, coating the floors and walls entirely with layers upon layers of lightbulbs.
I still really want to be able to give Oro an autoimmune disorder. Trick the immune demons into thinking the repair demons in a particular area are actually holy parasites. Perhaps we could have a priest class, which can partially bless demons? The blessing wouldn't affect the demons themselves, but other demons would see them as an infection and deal with them accordingly.
Also, completely unrelated, but the lightbulb demons should be tiny and insect-sized. Massive hives of them would required to actually change lightbulbs, for obvious reasons.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 20, 2016, 10:22:24 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on March 20, 2016, 10:27:05 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 20, 2016, 11:15:39 pm
I thought of something, Could Oro have Some "Domesticable" "Cancerous" Demons that are Severely broken from there original Purpose? For example The dog sized spider demon who changes light bulbs Might Start Wildly Smashing Lights, Or a Demon that Cleans Might Disorganize and Demolish things wildly...No john, you are the cancer.
As per stuff like that, it depends. There might be some demons out there you can make a deal with, in return for something. And there will certainly be instances of various demons becoming too plentiful or dangerous and coming into conflict with the immune system, so to speak.
Post by: Empiricist on March 21, 2016, 01:33:29 am
Post by: NJW2000 on March 21, 2016, 02:50:33 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 21, 2016, 05:45:48 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on March 21, 2016, 06:31:39 am
'As you walk along the cobblestone path, you begin to notice a strong smell of diesel, the sky grows foggier as the stars are blotted out by ambient light, the flickering light from torches in the area before being replaced by the steady glow of light-bulbs coming from warped high-rise buildings that seem to close in on you and the stretched light posts evenly spaced, looking down, you notice that the footpath has changed to smooth concrete.
On the other side of the road (Which you could have sworn wasn't there when you were in that small village but you can't remember where it started) one of the light-bulbs gives a tiny *pop*, fizzling out, and only a few seconds afterwards a steadily growing noise of metal being hit repeatedly and rapidly against rock begins to form out of the silence, and from the top of the shorter buildings a metallic spider around the size of a medium sized dog crawls out, turning vertically without a moments hesitation to crawl down the size of the building, carefully avoiding any windows.
When it reaches the bottom, you notice that it isn't so much a spider as it is a spider-shaped cyborg, it's legs, while appearing to be a simple hairy exoskeleton, shows metal tips, from where wear-and-tear must have worn the covering away, the the top of the abdomen is covered in small glass globes, one of your teammates, who is both an arachnophobe and a technophobe, passes out on sight.
You feel you have to open diplomacy as a matter of courtesy, you yell "HELLO LARGE SPIDER THING! HOW ARE YOU THIS FINE EV-MORN-NIGHT? JUST DOING YOUR JOB, I SEE?"
It totally ignores you, instead focusing on the burnt out bulb, wrapping its legs around the pole, it begins to shimmy up to the top, where it begins to use its fangs with a disturbing amount of dexterity to unscrew the light-globe, and pluck one of the glass balls which you now recognize as another, identical light-globe with its back leg, handing it up to its mouth, which it then screws in, setting it aglow, it then slides down back to the floor, giving a distinct sense of satisfaction, feeling quite left out, you rap your sword against the light-pole next to you.
Its gaze instantly snaps to you, with the kind of burning intensity one might consider a lion to have, holding that gaze for a full minute before backing up, still holding its sight on you, and crawls all the way back up the building, before disappearing out of sight, you could have sworn it gave you that 'I've got my eyes on you' action with its foreleg.'
Post by: piecewise on March 21, 2016, 09:46:23 am
What about the immune system itself being tricked into attacking the City like some sort of autoimmune disorder and/or Orwellian state? Is that possible? Or too abusable?We shall see.
Will there be magic usable by players (outside of the magical holy weapons)? Maybe one-use magical tools that are also built in that special way with the rituals. Like a smokebomb that confuses any immume system demons to buy time for an escape.Yes. There's probably gonna be two kinds; your magic and their magic. Both are faith driven but in general your magic is the innate or weapon based abilities, their magic is going to be related to the use of specific magical objects. And in general theirs will probably be more powerful overall.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 21, 2016, 12:44:51 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 21, 2016, 03:34:20 pm
Will there be magic usable by players (outside of the magical holy weapons)? Maybe one-use magical tools that are also built in that special way with the rituals. Like a smokebomb that confuses any immune system demons to buy time for an escape.Yes. There's probably gonna be two kinds; your magic and their magic. Both are faith driven but in general your magic is the innate or weapon based abilities, their magic is going to be related to the use of specific magical objects. And in general theirs will probably be more powerful overall.
'Their' being the demons and 'your' being the player chars? Or who were you referring to exactly?
Also, faith driven meaning that you burn faith points in order to use said magic, right? So you have to balance using faith for abilities vs not running out and getting corrupted.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on March 21, 2016, 03:37:49 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 21, 2016, 09:45:00 pm
Is most of the city exploration going to be moving combat, stealth, or just walking around hoping we aren't spotted? Or a combination or something else?Really that depends on where you are. Certain areas are gonna have thicker concentrations of demons than others. The outer layers, where most of the abducted lands are, have a relatively low concentration of demons so you can move, explore, fight a bit, etc. But if you say, somehow make it into the chemical gut or the fibrous organ, you're gonna neck deep in demons, and at that point you better either be ready to fight all out, run, or stay hidden.
Yes. Demons tend to have inherently better magic but you can get access to it via crafting or some weapons or objects. The demonic cassette tapes for instance.Will there be magic usable by players (outside of the magical holy weapons)? Maybe one-use magical tools that are also built in that special way with the rituals. Like a smokebomb that confuses any immune system demons to buy time for an escape.Yes. There's probably gonna be two kinds; your magic and their magic. Both are faith driven but in general your magic is the innate or weapon based abilities, their magic is going to be related to the use of specific magical objects. And in general theirs will probably be more powerful overall.
'Their' being the demons and 'your' being the player chars? Or who were you referring to exactly?
Also, faith driven meaning that you burn faith points in order to use said magic, right? So you have to balance using faith for abilities vs not running out and getting corrupted.
And yes, faith driven as in it uses your faith as a fuel or mana pool. A lot of what I envision for the game is careful management of faith and corruption.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2016, 09:18:29 am
Quote
Yes. Demons tend to have inherently better magic but you can get access to it via crafting or some weapons or objects. The demonic cassette tapes for instance.I can only assume they play a hellish arrhythmic cacophony, shrill and painful to listen to.
Quote
And yes, faith driven as in it uses your faith as a fuel or mana pool. A lot of what I envision for the game is careful management of faith and corruption.Hmm, do you think you'll be showing remaining faith points as a hard number, and declare how many points abilities and such use, or would you prefer to keep it more vague?
Post by: piecewise on March 26, 2016, 10:36:47 am
I'm probably gonna display it as a hard number. It's a bit more gamey, but considering how important it is, I feel like people will want to keep a precise eye on it.QuoteYes. Demons tend to have inherently better magic but you can get access to it via crafting or some weapons or objects. The demonic cassette tapes for instance.I can only assume they play a hellish arrhythmic cacophony, shrill and painful to listen to.QuoteAnd yes, faith driven as in it uses your faith as a fuel or mana pool. A lot of what I envision for the game is careful management of faith and corruption.Hmm, do you think you'll be showing remaining faith points as a hard number, and declare how many points abilities and such use, or would you prefer to keep it more vague?
Plus then things get a lot easier because I can just give abilities and attacks hard numbers rather than saying "Oh that attack seems to have drained a...moderately large amount of faith!"
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2016, 11:13:24 am
Post by: Whisperling on March 26, 2016, 11:17:09 am
Plus then things get a lot easier because I can just give abilities and attacks hard numbers rather than saying "Oh that attack seems to have drained a...moderately large amount of faith!"
This could be solved pretty easily by assigning stock phrases to different ranges and hiding the exact numbers. Not that I mind knowing exactly how much faith, I have, of course. :P The problem just has a pretty easy fix.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 26, 2016, 11:33:47 am
Seems kind of pointless. I mean, how long will it be till someone does a teensy bit of algebra and PW might as well be giving numerical values anyway? Not long at all.Plus then things get a lot easier because I can just give abilities and attacks hard numbers rather than saying "Oh that attack seems to have drained a...moderately large amount of faith!"
This could be solved pretty easily by assigning stock phrases to different ranges and hiding the exact numbers. Not that I mind knowing exactly how much faith, I have, of course. :P The problem just has a pretty easy fix.
Unless known and slight uncertainty was part of the fun, though why that would be worth doing I have no idea.
Post by: piecewise on March 26, 2016, 11:56:38 am
Yeah, seems best all in all, helps prevent accidents or unwanted corruption from bad wording or interpretations. Balancing said numbers might be a right pain in the ass though.Balancing is a pain in the ass in general.
Yeah, but I see no real reason to. Someone knowing they're running on 3/100 Faith is gonna be lot more tense than me saying "You are very low on faith"Plus then things get a lot easier because I can just give abilities and attacks hard numbers rather than saying "Oh that attack seems to have drained a...moderately large amount of faith!"
This could be solved pretty easily by assigning stock phrases to different ranges and hiding the exact numbers. Not that I mind knowing exactly how much faith, I have, of course. :P The problem just has a pretty easy fix.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2016, 12:12:42 pm
For example, say you have a holy spear. Normally (for the sake of the example here) you roll dex to see where/how well you hit, and str for the damage.But, when you buy the weapon you get three (perhaps rolled out of a list of possible effects so it isn't the same for everyone) 'faith modifiers' you can apply to an attack:
- Truesight (costs 4 faithpoints): attack gets heavy bonus to aim, allowing to hit specific parts or get in between chinks of armor. Damage is rolled for as normal.
- Whirlwind (7 faith): you get several quick attacks in 1 turn, but each attack is rolled for normally.
- Longshot (1 faithpoint per meter): spear magically extends without growing very heavy or unbalanced, for long range strikes.
So then, people could also combine effects. Eg combine the 1st and 3rd to get a 'Truesight Longshot Strike' attack (maybe add a little extra faith needed for each effect you add to an attack, eg an extra 10% faith needed based on the combined faith of the 2 effects) with which you can poke out an eye at 20m with uncanny precision.
Then when you level up, you unlock (an) extra effect(s) for you to mix and match with. This way, people can combine things in unusual ways (especially if multiple items can have their effects combined) to create unique signature attacks.
Post by: Parisbre56 on March 26, 2016, 12:18:01 pm
For example, there is an electrified door locked with a keycard or something similar blocking the players' path. Now the players could just brute force it open, but that would take some time, have a chance of hurting them and probably trigger an alarm/immune response. So the players could follow the electrical lines to find a transformer they could quietly shut down to get rid of the electrification. Or they could hunt one of the yellow keycard demons so that they can use it to unlock the door. Or simply look for alternate paths, like going through the rooftops or the sewers.
Depending on how far you want to go with it, you could do the game-y thing where, if someone tries to approach an area without the necessary level, you can ensure people have the proper "level" to access an area by forcing them (or at least heavily suggesting to them) to have a detour through another easier area and complete it first, so that they can gain the necessary levels.
There could also be a fast travel system, quite similar to what you have in the Deep Infirmary. People finding tram stations they could go back to from other tram stations, or something like that. Maybe standard Doom teleporters, maybe something related to blood flow, you know more about the theme of the city and what would fit best.
Also, I've had an idea for an exploration-based RTD where the last tribe of humans are living underground, at the lowest levels beneath a gigantic machine. The machine is like a living thing, expanding, decaying, repairing and defending itself. And as the machine slowly dies, so does the home of the last tribe, since it partially depends on the material it provides for its survival. So a small group of people is exiled (the city's best, people the men in power want to get rid off or both) into the tunnels surrounding the village and into the alien bowels of the machine, told not to return until they have found something worthy, something that could save the last tribe, whatever that could be.
I'll probably never get to run it due to time constraints, so if you're interested, I can shoot you a PM with what little concept notes I have for its monsters, challenges and environments. For example, the two things I describe above (fast travel and creating paths) are things I had planned for that game. Maybe there will be something that inspires you there.
Post by: syvarris on March 26, 2016, 03:05:19 pm
Yeah, seems best all in all, helps prevent accidents or unwanted corruption from bad wording or interpretations. Balancing said numbers might be a right pain in the ass though.
Eh, PW's go-to balancing strategy seems to be "Fuck it, I know they'll break the game anyway so I won't waste my time with balance". At best, he has other people do the balancing. If he does go that route though, I'll happily volunteer--I'm good at breaking systems, so I should be pretty good at patching holes!
There could also be a fast travel system, quite similar to what you have in the Deep Infirmary. People finding tram stations they could go back to from other tram stations, or something like that. Maybe standard Doom teleporters, maybe something related to blood flow, you know more about the theme of the city and what would fit best.
Oh, I do like the fast travel idea. Perhaps Oro might have large sewer-river things, which function similarly to veins, and we can craft makeshift boats from certain things. Maybe riding on the riverveins costs Faith, as it is corrupt fluid. Maybe only outgoing riverveins are dilute enough to ride on without significant corruption, so fasttravel only functions as an escape. Alternatively, you could do it the opposite way, so we can ride a rivervein into a dangerous area, but not out--That way, it's easy to send yourself too far in and get trapped.
Maybe the riverveins would start out with some sort of filters which'll kill you if you try to go through, but we could destroy or disable the filters, which unlocks fast travel through that particular section of the rivervein. Since the bloodflow would also be unfiltered then, perhaps this would have a weakening effect on the surroundings.
Hmm. The immunebots would likely use the riverveins for transport, which would mean riding on the rivervein is the worst possible situation during an immune response. That would make fasttravel function as a reward for stealthy missions--If you mess up and stimulate an immune response, you're forced to take the long way out.
Post by: Ozarck on March 26, 2016, 04:08:06 pm
Team can overpower any reasonable physical threat with their magics? time for magic opponents. a single player can go toe to toe with a colossus? time to send in hordes of small beings to swarm the mighty and eat them from the inside. someone is mighty enough to alter reality? once reality is altered, they must deal with the consequences, both externally and internally. perhaps even constantly pouring power into their change, or sacrificing themselves or their power for that change to be effective.
Part of the trick is simply to not allow your characters to get too overpowered in the first place. Make advancements slower than the players want. Otherwise you become the authors of Superman, contemplating killing him because he is so hard to write for. This is how you get a Doomsday, people. No one wants a Doomsday. So don't let them break it to begin with.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2016, 05:47:27 pm
Quote
Eh, PW's go-to balancing strategy seems to be "Fuck it, I know they'll break the game anyway so I won't waste my time with balance". At best, he has other people do the balancing. If he does go that route though, I'll happily volunteer--I'm good at breaking systems, so I should be pretty good at patching holes!
Breaking things is much, much easier than fixing things so they're balanced and robust. Believe me, I've been on both sides of that equation in ER.
Also, I thought pw's idea of a 'fast travel' were the forward bases we could set up so we wouldn't have to start from 0 every time? Though fast travel between locations could be handy either way.
Quote
My usual method of rebalancing is a) if the imbalance is within the party, I look to enhance the weaker members' abilities and give them something to do that the stronger ones cannot, and to avoid sending them on missions whic hare simple slugfests for the mighty, and b) if the balance is between the world and the players, I create world beings or situations that take advantage of the strengths of the mighty, or their unsuspecting weaknesses.
Team can overpower any reasonable physical threat with their magics? time for magic opponents. a single player can go toe to toe with a colossus? time to send in hordes of small beings to swarm the mighty and eat them from the inside. someone is mighty enough to alter reality? once reality is altered, they must deal with the consequences, both externally and internally. perhaps even constantly pouring power into their change, or sacrificing themselves or their power for that change to be effective.
Part of the trick is simply to not allow your characters to get too overpowered in the first place. Make advancements slower than the players want. Otherwise you become the authors of Superman, contemplating killing him because he is so hard to write for. This is how you get a Doomsday, people. No one wants a Doomsday. So don't let them break it to begin with.
Some very good points. However, I dunno if these will be as easily applicable in ORO as they could be in your game. For example, the whole point of this game seems to be a combat-oriented 'slugfest'. Sure, there might be other approaches sometimes or side-activities, but overall fighting demons from dusk till dawn seems like it'll be the meat of the game. Throwing opponents that counter a parties/characters strengths is a given though, I'd be surprised if pw wouldn't try to do that (and it fits with the whole 'evolving immune system' thing).
Not allowing people to get too OP, and making them retire if they do, has been a core concern for pw from the start. How to do that specifically though might not be very straightforward. For example, how fast should people level? What kind of payout allows for a smooth advancing in power, without going so slow people feel like they aren't really progressing? And how to allow enough flexibility so people who play it smart can see their efforts rewarded accordingly, without creating enormous power gaps? It's all not entirely straighforward, is my point (not that you really said it was, mind).
And at the end of the day, even if one is dedicated to try to make a balanced system, actually assigning the numbers will be a tough exercise if you want different playstyles to be equally viable and want to prevent obviously superior/inferior options. Espcaially since things might not always pan out as you thought (eg ability x might prove to not be half as effective as you thought, so now the high faith cost it got means it's all but useless).
Post by: Ozarck on March 26, 2016, 06:14:02 pm
1) determine the likely number of players.
2) determine the likely amount of character turnover
3) determine the number of missions for the main story line
4) determine the maximum number of side missions / rabbit trails / secondary bases.
5) determine the desired power balance for the end game, including numbers of characters at that power level.
6) chart power progression per mission based on that.
a) if people get too powerful too quick, set them aside a while for cooldown/ramp up faith loss
b) if people are dying too often, increase early character level progression
c) I suppose "defend the supply line" would be a way to get secondary characters involved. logistics is super important for military action, after all.
d) if crafted weapons / armor / equipment becomes too powerful, increase it's faith drain.
Post by: NJW2000 on March 26, 2016, 06:24:24 pm
Wonder where the power/motivation to keep building a normal-ish city comes from, not a more efficient hive or a more effective megatank.
Perhaps something to do with some sort of anti-faith: the very perversion of keeping a full city populated entirely by mosters that would slay anyone who could use the city properly sustains the power that keeps the city functioning. Something similar to the "belief=power" trope - sort of the corruption of massive investment of human time, work and thought in a place.
Post by: Radio Controlled on March 26, 2016, 06:34:07 pm
And yes, that's a good list of considerations you made there (one which you might want to copy somewhere, pw), though I do wonder how well pw would be able to predict/go through with some of those (remember the whole 'ER was gonna be an easy game with short missions for small teams' thing? Or how some seriously unbalanced tinker projects could've been greenlighted if not for other people pointing out the possible problems?). Keeping in mind that eg. some rts games, who have a whole team of analysts and hundreds to thousands of matches to analyse, keep having balance patches for years to come, with parts of the community either crying bloody murder (if their favorite thing got nerfed) or singing evangelical praise (if their stuff got buffed or their enemies nerfedbatted) with every damn patch, it might be next to impossible to get the balance perfectly right (though I'd personally be happy with a system that's just not too broken).
Post by: Ozarck on March 26, 2016, 07:04:48 pm
NJW is somewhat right in that characters that get too powerful can become powerful monsters, but there is the risk of having the character become that powerful while retaining a comfortable faith cushion, which is why I suggested the faith drain modification idea - tweak how quickly they become demonic.
Of course, over the long run, punishing "good" players for success is bad, and having characters who are weak due to their players constantly getting there characters in trouble should be taken into account as well. "Oh, player a has lost one character and built on that experience to fashion an interesting character who is holding her team together, and player b is on his sixth Leroy Jenkins, crying 'nerf naow'? Poor, poor Leroy, looks like he'll be on his seventh soon."
As for game bloat, well, either decide early that there will be a hard cap, either in missions, bases, number of characters, days weeks and years, or number of players, and stick with it, or go with the flow, and if things get a little derailed but everyone is enjoying it, let it be. Sometimes our creations take on a life of their own. the trick is to manage the growth so it doesn't become cancerous.
faith amulets. In the base camp, or even outside the city altogether, let a PC "pray" over a given number of faith amulets for use on missions. "Pray" over ten low power, one shot ones, or two high power, reusable ones, or one semi-permanent one with a specific effect.
Post by: Nunzillor on March 26, 2016, 07:12:58 pm
Post by: Hapah on March 29, 2016, 03:54:01 pm
Post by: piecewise on March 29, 2016, 05:04:56 pm
Post by: Hapah on March 29, 2016, 06:05:53 pm
Post by: Whisperling on March 29, 2016, 06:08:48 pm
So we need some sort of demon-forged fire spit Super Soaker?
...I need to use this as a weapon.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 02, 2016, 07:34:16 am
Other example, if I use a trick to trap some demons in a building and set it ablaze, would that kill the demons? If yes, does that mean you could use a decent regular (non-holy) flamethrower as a weapon?
Post by: MidnightJaguar on April 02, 2016, 10:09:54 am
Post by: piecewise on April 02, 2016, 10:12:12 am
You said that bullets and other non-magic damage doesn't work on demons. Is that because they are highly resistant to non-magic damage, or because they heal non-magic damage very quickly? Say I shoot a heavy bullet with a lot of kinetic energy from a big ol' rifle into a demon, and it survives. Does that mean that kicking the demon off of a high building to fall and smash itself on the floor below would also not kill it? Meaning that trying to use environmental damage to kill demons isn't possible, or very hard at least?It's the werewolf sort of deal, it just doesn't seem to bother them unless you get them with the right weapon. You could PROBABLY kill them with ordinary weapons, but you're gonna need a mini-gun and several crates of ammo. Ie, it's not really worth it. Kind of like using the non-silver sword on monsters in the witcher games. As per environmental damage, that depends. You find a demon made of ice and hit it with fire, thats gonna be effective regardless. But doing it on a "normal" demon, ie one made of flesh or metal or something, and it might get singed but it won't do any significant damage.
Other example, if I use a trick to trap some demons in a building and set it ablaze, would that kill the demons? If yes, does that mean you could use a decent regular (non-holy) flamethrower as a weapon?
Post by: NJW2000 on April 02, 2016, 10:23:57 am
Which means our options are "divine" materials (i.e. special) or just massive overkill?
Will the latter be an option, ever, or are we fighting only with divine weapons?
Post by: MidnightJaguar on April 02, 2016, 10:24:52 am
Post by: piecewise on April 02, 2016, 10:27:17 am
So the demons are magical creatures (tougher, maybe regenerative, etc), but hitting them with the right materials will hurt them as if they were mundane?Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.
Which means our options are "divine" materials (i.e. special) or just massive overkill?
Will the latter be an option, ever, or are we fighting only with divine weapons?
Post by: NJW2000 on April 02, 2016, 10:33:54 am
As far as I understood it, there were:
- Special Weapons - forged in the holy city, under special rites, sometimes from pieces of demons
- Normal Weapons (these don't actually work)
- Massive overkill (bad plan)
- Stuff that will only work with the right demons i.e. slug demons and salt, ice demons and fire, fire and water, blah blah
Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.Were you refering to the last one here? Or something else?
Post by: piecewise on April 02, 2016, 11:12:08 am
Wait, so our weapons won't be useless whatever on pretty much most demons, will they?Yeah, you have that right. Holy weapons work on everything (to greater or lesser degree depending on damage and material), normal weapons don't do jack unless done with massive overkill, and specific creatures may have mundane weaknesses, salt to slug, water to fire, etc.
As far as I understood it, there were:
- Special Weapons - forged in the holy city, under special rites, sometimes from pieces of demons
- Normal Weapons (these don't actually work)
- Massive overkill (bad plan)
- Stuff that will only work with the right demons i.e. slug demons and salt, ice demons and fire, fire and water, blah blah
Only very specific creatures would have that kind of mundane or specific weakness. The majority won't.Were you refering to the last one here? Or something else?
Post by: NJW2000 on April 02, 2016, 11:19:55 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 02, 2016, 06:22:41 pm
Or maybe drink some demonic stimulant to corrupt themselves and attack a demon (and everyone around it) in berserk rage with their bare fists, doom style? Essentially another way to trade some faith AND some added corruption for a boost, temporarily giving you an ability to cause more harm or use your tools as if they were holy or demonic?
Or does that not mesh well with the crafting system, leading to more chances for imbalance?
There's also another consideration for environmental damage: Maybe the environment can't kill the demons, but it could slow them down, if they're not superhuman. If the ceiling collapsed, them a demon could be trapped and not able to kill. And if the players are given access to a great deal of mundane weapons, they might be able to cause that to happen regularly. I could see a group of crusaders blowing up one side of a building so that it topples and blocks the path of the pursuing immune demons or demonic tank or whatever. Depending on your vision for the game, there could be many different ways to handle that (including just letting it be).
Post by: piecewise on April 02, 2016, 07:09:54 pm
What about something like a monk? Could someone infuse his fist with his faith to make it a holy weapon? Essentially trade faith to temporarily make themselves a holy weapon? Or use a special skill that makes their next weapon strike or bullet fired holy?I've already got a monk/unarmed class planned. Zealots. No armor, no weapons, all fists and faith. The idea being that they are literally so faithful that their fists are holy weapons.
Or maybe drink some demonic stimulant to corrupt themselves and attack a demon (and everyone around it) in berserk rage with their bare fists, doom style? Essentially another way to trade some faith AND some added corruption for a boost, temporarily giving you an ability to cause more harm or use your tools as if they were holy or demonic?
Or does that not mesh well with the crafting system, leading to more chances for imbalance?
There's also another consideration for environmental damage: Maybe the environment can't kill the demons, but it could slow them down, if they're not superhuman. If the ceiling collapsed, them a demon could be trapped and not able to kill. And if the players are given access to a great deal of mundane weapons, they might be able to cause that to happen regularly. I could see a group of crusaders blowing up one side of a building so that it topples and blocks the path of the pursuing immune demons or demonic tank or whatever. Depending on your vision for the game, there could be many different ways to handle that (including just letting it be).
Post by: Egan_BW on April 02, 2016, 07:28:40 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on April 03, 2016, 04:05:39 am
Which means its up to us :)
Post by: spazyak on April 03, 2016, 09:35:30 am
I'm on board for plan massive overkill myself, fuck "Holy weapons". :POOOOooooohHHHH. Can we burn then shoot then burninate then shoot then nuke them just to be sure, in any order?
Post by: piecewise on April 03, 2016, 09:37:50 am
The first means I can craft a denser experience because I know where you're gonna go (or at least where you CAN go) and what places are explorable, so I can focus on enemy placements and items and traps and all that jazz.
Where as the second allows more freedom in terms of how you do what you do, but it also makes the maps exponentially larger and means I won't have time to sit around and decide the contents and design of every single building on this thing.
It's a conundrum.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 03, 2016, 09:50:59 am
(People might still find ways to get to where they shouldn't though.)
On the other hand, sandbox does mean more room for endless tacticool blabbing. I do love me some tacticool blabbing.
Post by: Hapah on April 03, 2016, 10:14:51 am
Post by: MidnightJaguar on April 03, 2016, 10:20:46 am
Post by: TheBiggerFish on April 03, 2016, 10:27:09 am
Post by: Ozarck on April 03, 2016, 11:55:52 am
Frankly, I'd rather a more sandbox style, but I think for gameplay hte limited is better.
Another approach is to design the limited map, then expand it to an actual city, such that htere are numerous buildings which carry the same set of things, and vast stretches that have nothing to do with the objective. just because there is a residential area doesn't mean we have to wander off down it. keep the team focused by using that 'limited bases" idea, and if they go off rails, they cna wander aimlessly in housing complexes or office buildings of pointlessness until they die and the game ends with the destruction of the so called holy city, as is right and proper.
Post by: Whisperling on April 03, 2016, 01:00:26 pm
I'd go with the first, if only for the sense that the scenery is more involved and interesting. Maybe make a few secret rooms or something to give people who slip their leash some measure of satisfaction, but present them with a brick wall (metaphorical or literal, take your pick) if they try to go any farther.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 03, 2016, 01:20:23 pm
Which is basically dark souls. DS2 at least, with a fair bit like 3, maybe a bit more limited than 1.
Guys, remember massive open expanses can be shoved into dungeons for tacticool stuff.
Post by: piecewise on April 03, 2016, 03:02:53 pm
Post by: Pancaek on April 03, 2016, 04:02:28 pm
Pancaek's Acme solutions.
Post by: Hapah on April 03, 2016, 04:28:12 pm
"after searching two buildings, demonic spiders start pouring from every crack and crevice. Y'all might want to get moving before you drown in demon spiders!""Fight the spiders while I check that cupboard over there"
Pancaek's Acme solutions.
We will succumb to lootlust in scenario 2, no question.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on April 03, 2016, 04:35:40 pm
"!#!LOOTING INTENSIFYS!#!
Post by: piecewise on April 03, 2016, 05:31:36 pm
Post by: Pancaek on April 03, 2016, 05:38:10 pm
I've found that the worse the opposition, the greater the looting. Because obviously, strong or numerous enemies means more loot!Maybe you could flood the entire block with loot, instead of spiders. Saturate the need for loot so that the players lose interest.
Post by: Whisperling on April 03, 2016, 05:44:00 pm
I've found that the worse the opposition, the greater the looting. Because obviously, strong or numerous enemies means more loot!
Why not use natural disasters? Oro itself is a living city, so I don't see why it couldn't knock over a water tower or collapse ceilings as some sort of defense mechanism. It would cause it some harm, I guess, but that's a not as big an issue as the adventurers trying to kill it.
Also, landslides don't stink of loot. Not perfect justification in-world, but sometimes you just have to be practical.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 03, 2016, 06:13:14 pm
With more focused gameplay, you could speed this up even more. For example, you could give a description of the point of things like the interior of the houses and other such useless background locations the moment the players arrive. Or you could have actions like "search every single house" resolve in a single turn, since I assume that when the players are not in imminent danger, time might flow a bit faster.
You could also just make getting off the rails be extremely dangerous, but that has a chance of backfiring with people being even more slow and methodical.
Oh! What about newspapers? Would there be discarded newspapers getting picked up by the wind and flying around the city? Would there be something interesting to read in those demonic tabloids?
Maybe an area where the newspapers are created. Or a media-related area in general. With TV or radio stations staffed by their unholy equivalents.
Could work as a late game quest, when Oro has approached the Holy city enough for its unholy influence to have started affecting it. "With oro getting so close to the holy city, we are now in range of their unholy broadcast towers. The constant stream of the abominable images and sounds is starting to interfere with our broadcasts and create unrest in the general population. Some have even started waking around like zombies, slowly moving towards the towers like moths to a flame. I know you've been trying hard to slay Oro, but until you do so, could you please consider taking care of those towers? With them gone, you could boost the morale of our citizens and we could once again continue our resupply and communication operations unimpeded, so that we can aid you in your fought. And if you could capture them and set up a forward base there... Well, you'd make our lives a lot easier."
Post by: piecewise on April 03, 2016, 08:25:45 pm
I am a bitterly logical individual, and I'm currently embroiled in medical training. This is coloring my outlook, so I want to explain some things and then see what the consensus is.
There are two ways I see to make ORO.
The first is the one I'm currently doing and it's the "World turtle" design. Ie, the captured lands reside mostly on ORO's back, a vast mound of structures, towns, landmarks and natural formations piled onto and assimilated into the demonic machine that is ORO. The body of oro is mechanical, demonic and impossibly large, but it has a defined set up. It has a circulatory system in the form of a branching and complex train network. It has a mouth that eats cities, stomachs to digest them, immune system to protect itself, respiratory system to pump air to furnaces and such. And the demons within are either working for it or living inside of it as an environment. Or are symbiotic. In the case of this set up, you'd be spending your time mostly dealing with the captured lands and, once you reach a good spot or get something you need, you would mount an assault in and try to cripple an organ. You would do this until the entire beast is terminal and the heart shows itself.
The second would be one that is a lot more...well a lot less organized. I would relax that logical part of my mind that yells "Well, how does it walk?" and just say "it walks because its fucking demon magic, fuck you. Insert its magic I don't have to explain shit image here. In this case Oro would not be a bunch of lands riding a demonic engine. It would be an impossible amalgam of cities, villages, landmarks and natural features that is oozing across the world like a hellish katamari.
In the first case, the player experience would be one of being a tiny insignificant being atop a giant creature, shadow of the colossus but where the colossus is 25 miles in diameter and occasionally stops to eat cities before it continues to trudge onward. You would be acting as a cancer or a virus, infecting, taking over, striking at the organs and trying to bring it down.
In the second case it would be like walking into a neon urban nightmare, dreamlike, hellish, filled with impossible space and Penrose stairs. Trains exist but might go nowhere, or might not go to the same stations each time. An elevator you find in an open field might lead to an inverted cathedral where you walk among upside down gargoyles on the roof and try not to fall into the sky. The heart here would be buried deep in layers of contradiction and paradox, and would be reached by the forcible stabilizing element of our civilizations, which would act as islands of sense in an otherwise eldritch and inscrutable world.
Which of these sounds more interesting?
I should point out also that the first one will take longer to do because I have to get all the parts together, and it will necessarily be somewhat more restricted in what I make. The second one is much easier because I can just let my imagination run wild and create whatever bizarre, hellish, urban hatescapes I can think up at 3am while staring at the street lights. But it might feel more like a massive maze or dungeon compared to crawling through the guts of a mechanical elder god.
It's a hard choice.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on April 03, 2016, 08:28:47 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on April 03, 2016, 08:35:54 pm
MOAR ELDRITCH FUCKERY.
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on April 03, 2016, 08:39:13 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on April 03, 2016, 08:56:32 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on April 03, 2016, 08:57:34 pm
[stamps]
[DEFECTIVE]
;P
Yeah, I was half-tempted to go for option one, too, but seriously, what's not to like about more eldritch fuckery?
Post by: Moopli on April 03, 2016, 09:00:35 pm
Post by: Xantalos on April 03, 2016, 09:09:14 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 03, 2016, 09:11:40 pm
Post by: Whisperling on April 03, 2016, 09:18:11 pm
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on April 03, 2016, 09:22:02 pm
I dunno, I just really love the idea of option one.
Post by: piecewise on April 03, 2016, 11:44:53 pm
We'll see if the coming days bring any different opinions.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 03, 2016, 11:52:32 pm
Post by: Xantalos on April 04, 2016, 12:03:20 am
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 04, 2016, 12:14:04 am
I would go for option 1.I also support option 1, as I want to see what kind of cool systems PW will dream up. Plus, I like the idea of living in the subsumed lands and fighting through them, as well as raids.
Post by: Nunzillor on April 04, 2016, 01:48:50 am
The second one seems to fit the theme a lot better, I think. The formless in some semblance of form, a nightmarish conglomeration of nonsense and fuckery. Adult Wonderland.+1
Post by: Empiricist on April 04, 2016, 02:38:20 am
Otherwise, Option 1.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 04, 2016, 03:54:44 am
So Option 2.
Post by: Pancaek on April 04, 2016, 07:47:15 am
Post by: Ozarck on April 04, 2016, 08:51:13 am
Also, as for the "stops to explore every house" question from earlier - someone mentioned having the searches resolve in a single turn: "you find nothing of interest." or whatever. If someone wanted to do a more specific search "Well, then, I look for a set of cutlery and a single, cracked china teacup." you could force that to occcur in the next zone. Or even have a "search area" portion of the events of an area, like such:
team enters area, description follows.
is hazardous?
------>yes = no search for you. action instead.
------>no = search area. all searches, general or specific, occur now.
``````````find hazard? action turn
``````````find valuable or interesting? interaction turn.
actions resolve, move to next area.
or, one's faith meter, or even a second meter - sanity, or zone risk, or something (the ghost hands from Zelda, reaching out of the walls to yank you in) could count down continually, forcing actions to be short or few.
Post by: Hapah on April 04, 2016, 10:08:48 am
Post by: piecewise on April 04, 2016, 11:43:46 am
Post by: Egan_BW on April 04, 2016, 11:50:49 am
Post by: MidnightJaguar on April 04, 2016, 05:42:50 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2016, 11:45:30 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 07, 2016, 11:59:33 am
damn vertical maps.
Then just put the map on a table already.
Post by: piecewise on April 08, 2016, 09:42:12 am
(http://replygif.net/i/247.gif)damn vertical maps.
Then just put the map on a table already.
Anyone here somewhat interested in the game but not gonna play? I'd like to have someone to look over things occasionally for a second opinion, but SEKRITS prevent me from allowing everyone from doing it.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 08, 2016, 09:59:43 am
Me! Me! Pick me! I'm totally not terrible at keeping secrets!
Post by: Pancaek on April 08, 2016, 10:10:26 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 08, 2016, 10:59:11 am
(http://replygif.net/i/247.gif)damn vertical maps.
Then just put the map on a table already.
Anyone here somewhat interested in the game but not gonna play? I'd like to have someone to look over things occasionally for a second opinion, but SEKRITS prevent me from allowing everyone from doing it.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Buddy_christ.jpg)
Post by: Ozarck on April 08, 2016, 07:26:54 pm
Post by: Toaster on April 11, 2016, 07:44:27 pm
I envisioned Oro more as option one actually. I prefer it, though perhaps a biiiiiit abstracted. I feel that some bits of option two could be leaked in in places, but those leaks could be well defined.
I agree with this statement, here.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 11, 2016, 10:57:38 pm
This is also why I would prefer option one.I envisioned Oro more as option one actually. I prefer it, though perhaps a biiiiiit abstracted. I feel that some bits of option two could be leaked in in places, but those leaks could be well defined.
I agree with this statement, here.
Post by: piecewise on April 12, 2016, 12:02:09 am
Post by: spazyak on April 12, 2016, 12:35:26 am
You're getting something...kinda a mix of the two. As in I'm not gonna worry about all the logistics of how demon city guts work exactly, but I am gonna have level consistency and interconnection stuff.So well defined paths that one can use as safe travel, lr as well defined and safe as you can be in a city trying to kil you, and then less well defined areas that morph and twist in each other.
Post by: Ozarck on April 12, 2016, 07:31:27 am
Post by: piecewise on April 12, 2016, 09:31:05 am
Did you decide to share your secrets with someone, PW?As soon as I complete this first area I'll show someone for feedback. I'm going at this area by area. Unfortunately it's slow work what with all the fucking tests and shit they keep piling on me. By the time I get free time I really don't have the energy to sit down and create much.
Post by: piecewise on April 17, 2016, 09:49:26 am
I continue to wonder about the paradoxical endevor of making a fighting system that is both quick and mildly in depth.
I'm beginning to wonder if we're gonna have to get into "automatic" systems where players preset character actions and when to use special abilities. Because 1 turn a day is far too slow to handle combat that could take several turns.
Post by: Toaster on April 17, 2016, 09:57:25 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 17, 2016, 10:43:18 am
Quote
for combat, one thing you could do is that people, when monsters are encountered, describe the kind of tactics they'd use, and then you run combat (multiple rounds) until something big happens (eg extra monsters appear from the walls) or you think they might have reason to change tactics (eg somebody got wounded bad).
So people still get a chance to react to the situation and such, without going through the battle blow by blow. Also helps prevent people having/trying to set up enormous flowcharts that dictate possible actions and counters, which might happen if the whole battle is done through preset actions.
Post by: piecewise on April 17, 2016, 12:08:45 pm
Did you consider this idea for combat from some time ago?I did, but there's the problem of how are weapon skills and such like that used? Automatically in the right situation?Quotefor combat, one thing you could do is that people, when monsters are encountered, describe the kind of tactics they'd use, and then you run combat (multiple rounds) until something big happens (eg extra monsters appear from the walls) or you think they might have reason to change tactics (eg somebody got wounded bad).
So people still get a chance to react to the situation and such, without going through the battle blow by blow. Also helps prevent people having/trying to set up enormous flowcharts that dictate possible actions and counters, which might happen if the whole battle is done through preset actions.
Not to mention it kinda pulls players out of the game if I'm doing all their combat for them.
It's a conundrum that I can't even look to other systems to solve because everything else is based on doing things at a table or at least online over something like skype or IRC. The issue always comes back to the fact that I can't rely on players to post multiple times a day, and that they can't always rely on me to do that either.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2016, 12:22:26 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on April 17, 2016, 12:37:51 pm
e.g. a step forward and a lunge with a rapier, then quickly stepping back and blocking with a shield, before a sweeping slash with the rapier again.
The idea being that there is only time to attack along a set path, not to think and react (perhaps because special blessings are needed to survive the unholy speed of the demons, meaning that the brain cannot keep up with the magically enhanced attack speeds).
And you have planned the moveset of the enemy in advance. With different actions of the combatants interacting differently, so a spear thrust would do well against a massive bite, while a shield bash might lose someone an arm. Or a spear thrust might be knocked aside by a diagonal slash, while a shield bash would interrupt the weapon's path, jarring the user's arm.
Kinda fiddly, and a bit like RC's thing, but I can't see any real solution to the "depth in a single turn" problem without using a stupidly large number of choices, or a lits of actions.
Hope this makes sense.
Post by: kj1225 on April 17, 2016, 12:50:43 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 17, 2016, 12:56:32 pm
But yes, obviously the best thing is rapier and offhand dagger.
Post by: kj1225 on April 17, 2016, 01:01:16 pm
It works in dark souls!Or a pistol. Because that's why moved into using fast slashing weapons a low armor.
But yes, obviously the best thing is rapier and offhand dagger.
Post by: NAV on April 17, 2016, 01:17:56 pm
The most problematic thing with your post is the implication that someone would use a shield with a rapier.Bucklers and rapiers fucking dominated dueling for centuries so what the hell are you talking about?
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 17, 2016, 01:31:46 pm
Did you consider this idea for combat from some time ago?I did, but there's the problem of how are weapon skills and such like that used? Automatically in the right situation?Quotefor combat, one thing you could do is that people, when monsters are encountered, describe the kind of tactics they'd use, and then you run combat (multiple rounds) until something big happens (eg extra monsters appear from the walls) or you think they might have reason to change tactics (eg somebody got wounded bad).
So people still get a chance to react to the situation and such, without going through the battle blow by blow. Also helps prevent people having/trying to set up enormous flowcharts that dictate possible actions and counters, which might happen if the whole battle is done through preset actions.
Not to mention it kinda pulls players out of the game if I'm doing all their combat for them.
It's a conundrum that I can't even look to other systems to solve because everything else is based on doing things at a table or at least online over something like skype or IRC. The issue always comes back to the fact that I can't rely on players to post multiple times a day, and that they can't always rely on me to do that either.
Maybe have a set of variables, and when combat starts players have to specify the 'behavior' they go for, after which you take it into account and run the turn. For example, level of aggressiveness, magic use, how much attack vs defense they focus on.
Eg. encounter starts, you describe it, a player then (if he chooses to engage in straight-up combat) specifies
-aggressiveness: keep on pressure/retaliate but don't pursue/stay on defensive/try to disengage orderly
-What weapon to use (if he has multiple)
-what to target (specific enemy, or specific part of large enemy, or to just engage targets as convenient)
-magic use: are you willing to use ability/item X in this combat or not, about how much of your magic are you willing to use (none, a little (10%), a lot (50%), all out (100%, just shy of getting corrupted).
-attack vs defense: all out attack/balanced/focus on defence
Just a short example of course. Could get a little bit of rock-paper-scissors effect perhaps, with certain stances/styles/techniques being better against certain others/against certain monsters or working better or worse in conjunction (eg: 'focus on defense' combined with 'keep up pressure' effectively means just following your target if he tries to flee, but not actively attacking it, so you might just end up in a prolonged staring contest).
And of course, even if you use something like this, you can chose how large the time increments are to give players more or less chances to change tactics.
Post by: kj1225 on April 17, 2016, 04:57:20 pm
Bucklers are barely shields.The most problematic thing with your post is the implication that someone would use a shield with a rapier.Bucklers and rapiers fucking dominated dueling for centuries so what the hell are you talking about?
Post by: piecewise on April 17, 2016, 05:04:06 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on April 17, 2016, 05:19:17 pm
A buckler can be as effective or even more effective if you use it actively instead of passively, for one thing you hold a buckler further away from yourself so it occupies more of your opponents field of vision. Now a buckler wouldn't be affective against anything, but they are not useless if used right.Bucklers are barely shields.The most problematic thing with your post is the implication that someone would use a shield with a rapier.Bucklers and rapiers fucking dominated dueling for centuries so what the hell are you talking about?
Post by: piecewise on April 20, 2016, 10:02:58 am
Post by: syvarris on April 20, 2016, 06:14:32 pm
...Also, I believe you've mentioned allowing players to GM the "on-ship" thread equivalents? If helping out would secure me a place as one of those co-GMs, I'd be willing to lose my player rights too. I just wanna be involved with the game.
Post by: piecewise on April 20, 2016, 10:36:29 pm
You know, if you have any non-spoilery system stuff that won't prevent me from playing the game, I'm also willing to be consulted. I'm not good at evaluating flavor, but I'm very good at breaking systems.You'd be a good pick for a "on-ship" gm.
...Also, I believe you've mentioned allowing players to GM the "on-ship" thread equivalents? If helping out would secure me a place as one of those co-GMs, I'd be willing to lose my player rights too. I just wanna be involved with the game.
As per non-spoilery stuff, nothing yet. If you can think on a way to handle combat quickly but still with enough control to be fun, that would help.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 21, 2016, 08:30:17 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 21, 2016, 08:32:00 am
Post by: Egan_BW on April 21, 2016, 08:36:24 am
Post by: piecewise on April 21, 2016, 05:15:28 pm
By the way, what exactly is "ORO" anyway?Oroboropolis, the wandering city of the damned.
Post by: piecewise on April 22, 2016, 10:17:53 am
Automating this is tricky, as someone with an advantage in range would realistically attempt to keep that advantage via strategic placement. I could handle that via simply giving a character with a range advantage extra turns over the disadvantaged player, which depending on the speed of the weapon could mean free attacks (at least ones where they don't have to worry about being attacked back).
I could do an AI card bank, which is something that boardgames use sometimes, where each enemy has a certain handful of moves or attacks and I "Draw" a few at random and then draw from that chosen "Deck" to create their actions; that way I don't get any knowing or unknowing tactical advantage over players who choose their attacks beforehand.
I could theoretically do the same thing with players, having them build their own decks of "moves" and then drawing one for each turn. Could have special abilities exist as either instants or conditional cards which would sit waiting for the right condition and then activate. This would allow counter moves to exist and activate when they should, which just normal queuing wouldn't allow; or at least allow in any meaningful way.
But It would have to be balanced right...If too many turns went without input then overtaxing faith would be common. Hmm.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2016, 05:38:17 pm
All melee weapons are Short, Medium, or Long. Fists and daggers are short, swords and maces are medium, and spears and polearms are long.
If two creatures attack each other at the same time, the longer weapon hits first, and can stagger the other creature and prevent them from attacking or kill them outright.
If you have a Short weapon, you can take an action to "engage" a target with a medium or large weapon. In doing so, your target takes a free attack on you, but once engaged they can't hit you at all.
Medium weapons can't engage, and are strictly inferior to short and long weapons in terms of range, but have more damage/versatility/special skills to compensate.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 23, 2016, 03:43:17 am
Rest seems very sensible.
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 11:38:57 am
two people wanna try murdering each other for me?
Post by: Whisperling on April 23, 2016, 11:41:22 am
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 11:51:54 am
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 12:16:26 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 12:53:10 pm
What weapons do you want? I don't have rules for dual wielding so choose one. Anything above a long sword (ie greatsword, spear, zweihander, etc) is gonna be two handed for now.
I have to create some cards for the specific weapon and its stats so I gotta know that first.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on April 23, 2016, 01:10:52 pm
Or not, if you don't want to.
Chainsaw!
Throwing axe.
Longsword.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 23, 2016, 01:20:24 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 01:32:50 pm
If they choose weird things, they're probably gonna be at a disadvantage.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 01:35:39 pm
Post by: Whisperling on April 23, 2016, 01:39:35 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 01:51:07 pm
Let's say... throwing knives. Was tempted to go with a shield with a bladed/spiked rim, but not if it'll be incredibly ineffective as compared to conventional stuff.Melee, not ranged. Just a knife works.
Ok.Pyromancy flameUchigatana.
Post by: Whisperling on April 23, 2016, 01:56:39 pm
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 02:00:20 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 02:03:26 pm
Kopesh?
That works. One sec.
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 02:05:06 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 03:14:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you understand that and want to create your deck, here are your weapons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 03:45:57 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on April 23, 2016, 04:36:56 pm
Spoiler: Deck (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 05:18:47 pm
Now in this fight what you're gonna do is keep track of your own cards and play your hands behind spoilers, than I'll do the turn and we'll then move onto the next hand.
Since it's a three way fight, I'm gonna have you give me the target of your attack as well as the body part. Keep in mind two things: first that if you switch to a new target, you reset your range, and second that your attack rolls are almost always gonna be opposed by a defense one, so ganging up on someone helps simply in terms of statistics (ie you have more chances to get through) but splitting his defense does not give him any penalty to that defense (in this version at least).
In case you're wondering here is what a hand might look like if I was using a weapon with speed 2. Note that parry is not targeted, it can block any attack and can in fact work on multiple opponents.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 05:28:49 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 05:31:22 pm
Go ahead and do your first hand now if you'd like and I'll run it.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 05:32:22 pm
Also, can we chose which cards to recover when waiting?
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 05:33:29 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 05:41:50 pm
Why would you chose wait for your first action? there's ne penalty for defending and you don't have any cards to recover yet.Because it was just an example, one that could be happening later in a fight.
Also, can we chose which cards to recover when waiting?
Yes, you can.
So we can choose our first hand, correct?Right now you choose your first hand of 5 cards to play, yes. Those 5 cards are played out in the order they are presented and then we start the next turn by having you choose the second hand that is then played out and so on.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 05:44:23 pm
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 06:11:13 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on April 23, 2016, 06:39:25 pm
Spoiler: Hand (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 07:49:29 pm
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 07:57:24 pm
Post by: Ozarck on April 23, 2016, 10:24:53 pm
I'm sure it will work fine for this though, speeding up gameplay and all. It certainly makes the game drastically different in feel from ER and infinite heavens. I haven't played other PW games, so I don't know about perplexicon or the others as much.
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 10:49:37 pm
Sorry, really tired right now.S'allright
I'm gonna do these turns in a very mechanical way, lacking any real description, because I just wanna see how the system works. One thing I've noticed is that we're gonna have to say move in or out in relation to who.
Spoiler: Hand (click to show/hide)
starting handUp dated, sorry P-dubzSpoiler (click to show/hide)
And here's my first hand:Whisperling and Spaz take an aggressive stance while Egan sheathes his blade.
- Startup
- Quick Draw-Whisperling-Torso
- Move out
- Attack-spazyak-arm
- Defend
Spaz moves in, I'm gonna assume toward whispering. Not sure why he would do this because he has a range advantage over whisperling so he's doing nothing but remove that. Egan has range advantage on whispering, so his attack happens first. Whisperling dodges 2 of the hits, but gets hit by one to the torso. At this point I realize I forgot to even tell you how much hp your bodies have. It's 3 for head, 5 for arms, 12 for torso, 7 for legs. So whisperling's torso is now at 10 hp. Whisperling does lunge, rolls 2+1, moves in 1, and beats spaz's defense roll, but doesn't have a high enough roll to beat the min requirement for a head hit. Thanks to spaz's move in this puts spaz and whispering at zero range.
Egan moves out, unassumingly in relation to whisperling, though it doesn't matter. Whispering's attack roll is 2, Spaz's is 5, so he goes first. Whisperling rolls 5 for defense and so avoids damage. Spaz rolls 6 and avoids damage as well.
Spaz does a parry, while both egan and Whisperling attack him. They both roll 2, he rolls 6, successfully parrying both of them.
Both Egan and Whisperling are stunned, so Spaz gets to attack unopposed. He does a heavy attack on an arm...though I don't know whose arm. Probably Whisperling. He gets 5, and so does 4 damage to whisperling's arm. Whisperling has a -1 to attack now.
Spaz, your first instance next turn is recovery, due to the heavy attack this time.
(http://i.imgur.com/O9uAndg.png)
Ok, next round.
This looks like a combat system for mostly one v one battles, player v player and team v team (like the game cannon fodder). I expected a slightly more freeform system, due to the likely variety in opponents to be faced.Really I'm just messing with things right now, this is in no way the finished thing.
I'm sure it will work fine for this though, speeding up gameplay and all. It certainly makes the game drastically different in feel from ER and infinite heavens. I haven't played other PW games, so I don't know about perplexicon or the others as much.
The thing is I would have a much more freeform system but...I can't. I can't run a huge game 55 people sitting around with nothing to do as our 5 man team fights for 3 weeks.
Post by: spazyak on April 23, 2016, 11:15:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 11:30:45 pm
Spoiler: MILITARY SECRETS KEEP OUT (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2016, 11:39:59 pm
Not looking good for whisperling.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2016, 11:49:42 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 23, 2016, 11:56:22 pm
Spoiler: @Spaz (Private, BTW) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Egan (Also private) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Piecewise (Not private at all, he just made an oopsie) (click to show/hide)
Look at me, analyzing a forum game in depth while I have an essay due
Post by: Egan_BW on April 24, 2016, 12:02:52 am
Spoiler: @syv (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 12:09:09 am
Oh, did I not use up an attack card last turn (instance 4) because I was stunned?Yep, stunned replaces the card, doesn't use it up.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 24, 2016, 12:12:12 am
Spoiler: @syv (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on April 24, 2016, 05:55:52 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 11:26:25 am
Well.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: MILITARY SECRETS KEEP OUT (click to show/hide)
My turnSo Egan enters a defensive stance, not a bad idea. Spaz recovers from his quite successful cleave, and Whisperling attacks with crippling blow. Unfortunately he rolls a 1-1 so ain't no one getting hit.[/b]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Whisperling goes into a defensive stance, a good idea for someone with only one arm. Egan attempts to do a counter blow on no one, so his next instance becomes recovery instead of wait. Spaz moves out, putting some range between himself and whispering, getting the range advantage back.
Spaz does a parry against whisperling's feint. They tie in attack and defense so nothing happens. Egan recovers.
Whisperling waits, regening lunge and attack. Egan goes into an aggressive stance. Spaz attacks whisperling, aiming for the head. He succeeds, dealing 2 damage rather than three thanks to whisperling's defensive stance. Still, it replaces whisperling's next instance with stun.
Spaz enters a defensive stance, Egan sheathes his weapon, and Whisperling spends the turn stunned from the blow to the head.
So far, the only one injured is whisperling, who has one arm missing, 1/3 head hp and 10/12 torso hp.
Spaz and whisperling are in defensive stances +1, egan in an aggressive stance.
I've spotted a problem with defensive stance. Namely that weapons that deal 1 damage can't get around it. As such, I'm gonna clarify that both it and aggressive stance have -1 and +1 damage taken per instance, so that 1 damage weapons that attack multiple times an instance (like the knife) can do damage.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 24, 2016, 11:36:08 am
Just noting for clarity
Post by: spazyak on April 24, 2016, 11:53:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on April 24, 2016, 12:06:41 pm
I'll comment on his version anyway, though. I think he's messing up with the stances; Most obviously, at the end of the turn, he listed Spaz as being in both aggro and def stances. Spaz is in Def, Egan is in Aggro. Also, Spaz dealt two damage to Whisp, not one, because he was in Aggro while Whisp was in def--they essentially nullify each other.
Finally, you're actually nerfing knives there, Peedubs. Under normal circumstances, a knife fighter can assume aggro stance to counter defensive, which grants them +1-1 damage, leaving them with one damage, twice per turn--equal to katanas and kopeshes, just with worse range and better incrementing. Not that knives don't deserve a nerf--in double aggro battles, they deal 1+1+1*2 damage, better than a kopesh's 2+1+1, again with better incrementing. Double aggro honestly seems to be the way to go most of the time, unless your opponent is just built better than you. Nerfing knives to two tries at a three damage attack seems like a good idea--it's worse damage than a kopesh, but more chances to use the damage buff, and three's all you need for an instakill on the head.
Though, double aggro grants an effective +4 to-hit, so maybe the double strike isn't really a benefit. And the knife does have a range disadvantage, which is problematic... The knife does have crippling blow, though, which can enable up to twelve damage in a single turn... but it only targets limbs, which reduces its utility against unarmored people a fair bit, due to the low limb HP... and kopeshes are built for anti-armor already.
Yeah, you probably shouldn't nerf knives like that, PW.
Spoiler: @Spaz (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Egan (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on April 24, 2016, 12:09:26 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 12:48:08 pm
I wrote up my own version of the turn, because I am amazing at time management, but PW ninja'd me. Oh well.Fixed the mistakes, but knives only attack twice per instance, not three times, which you seem to think?
I'll comment on his version anyway, though. I think he's messing up with the stances; Most obviously, at the end of the turn, he listed Spaz as being in both aggro and def stances. Spaz is in Def, Egan is in Aggro. Also, Spaz dealt two damage to Whisp, not one, because he was in Aggro while Whisp was in def--they essentially nullify each other.
Finally, you're actually nerfing knives there, Peedubs. Under normal circumstances, a knife fighter can assume aggro stance to counter defensive, which grants them +1-1 damage, leaving them with one damage, twice per turn--equal to katanas and kopeshes, just with worse range and better incrementing. Not that knives don't deserve a nerf--in double aggro battles, they deal 1+1+1*2 damage, better than a kopesh's 2+1+1, again with better incrementing. Double aggro honestly seems to be the way to go most of the time, unless your opponent is just built better than you. Nerfing knives to two tries at a three damage attack seems like a good idea--it's worse damage than a kopesh, but more chances to use the damage buff, and three's all you need for an instakill on the head.
Though, double aggro grants an effective +4 to-hit, so maybe the double strike isn't really a benefit. And the knife does have a range disadvantage, which is problematic... The knife does have crippling blow, though, which can enable up to twelve damage in a single turn... but it only targets limbs, which reduces its utility against unarmored people a fair bit, due to the low limb HP... and kopeshes are built for anti-armor already.
Yeah, you probably shouldn't nerf knives like that, PW.Spoiler: @Spaz (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @Egan (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on April 24, 2016, 01:22:53 pm
In a defense vs aggro battle, the knife does two one damage attacks per turn, while the opponent does one two damage attack per turn. They have identical potential damage, but the knife user gets two chances at a head hit, stunning their foe if either attack hits.
Basically, in a normal battle, the knife always has the advantage. Even factoring in special attacks, the knife's got it pretty good; crippling blow grants a permanent *2 to damage on a certain limb (which I think is slightly better than the katana's quick draw). It does have the disadvantage of lower defense due to range, but that's mitigatable (through armor--see below). Only the kopesh's cleave ability is on a similar level, and even then only when the knifer has heavy armor and assuming cleave ignores armor.
Hence why I end up saying the knife shouldn't be nerfed. If it were, the kopesh is the undisputed king. As it is, there's two valid munchkin builds:
Spoiler: Oro's Havelmonster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Kopesh Knight (click to show/hide)
Katana should basically never be used. Quickdraw is decent, but is too easy to counter and the katana only beats the dagger in raw damage if the dagger hasn't landed a crippling blow. The katana will quickly run out of quickdraws, while both other weapons only need to land their special once per limb.
Maybe Kopesh and dagger are just OP, though. It's hard to tell when we only have three weapons.
EDIT:
I just considered something. The havelmonster literally doesn't care if its legs are chopped off, so the leg armor can be completely removed. That gives it +1 defense until it loses a leg, which is nice. By then it'll probably have chopped off your leg, so it balances out.
Post by: spazyak on April 24, 2016, 01:28:33 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 24, 2016, 01:34:24 pm
*Dark Souls laugh*
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on April 24, 2016, 01:51:44 pm
The "problem" is that speed == damage in this game, at least currently. All the weapons are low damage, and buffs are easy to come by. The minimum damage buff is +1, which is a +100% buff for a knife, or a +50% buff for a katana or kopesh. Double aggro gives two such buffs, meaning a knife gains a +200% damage while the other two only get a +100%... and the knife further doubles that because it attacks twice. And crippling blow doubles it again, though that's getting into the range of overkill.
The kopesh almost closes the gap with cleave, which can theoretically do 17 damage in one turn, but in practice that'll almost never happen because heavy armor is more trouble than its worth. Also, the knife has a theoretical damage ceiling of 16 (1 damage, +2 aggro stances, +1 startup, *2 attack speed, *2 crippling blow), so... yeah.
This might change when heavier weapons are added to the game, or if range gets enforced, but currently the knife has the best damage under almost all circumstances.
Post by: spazyak on April 24, 2016, 01:54:27 pm
Post by: crazyabe on April 24, 2016, 02:06:42 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 02:14:21 pm
This card thing is one of a few methods that I thought of, after all.
Post by: Parisbre56 on April 24, 2016, 04:03:21 pm
Post by: Whisperling on April 24, 2016, 04:25:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on April 24, 2016, 06:05:09 pm
Nope, I wasn't considering multiple opponents at all. Kopesh probably has the advantage in that case, because it is hurt least by going into a defensive stance. The knife relies upon aggro stance, but multiple opponents benefit more from the stance than the wielder.
Also, the knife user could potentially be perma-stunned against multiple people spamming feint. A similar tactic, which would let the katana be more useful, is to use quickdraw and have an ally feint during your startup turn--if it works, you'll get a +2 to each katana strike. It's still inferior to the other two weapons :P
Range is sorta funny, as it doesn't seem necessary for a knife user to close before attacking--PW let Whisp attack at range 1, with a range 0 weapon. It only provides a benefit to the attacks of the non-knife person, which is more or less pointless against the havelmonster--it's already dumped defense down enough that maintaining a range bonus isn't worth it.
Oh, and in case it wasn't obvious, the knife build I presented is only good for one fight. It essentially plans to have one or both legs chopped off, because the time spent doing that is time that can be spent on killing an opponent. Kopesh is better for a character meant to survive multiple fights, because its wins are less pyrhic.
Spoiler: EDIT: I had a system idea (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 08:39:49 pm
My turnSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
"If you two just keep fighting each other, I might have to leave!"Hmm egan does an interesting thing here. Something I never said could not specifically be done, so I'm letting it happen. He waits and regens two quick draws. Whisperling waits too. Spaz, however, attacks whisperling's head. Rolls a 1, too low for the min to hit.
*Dark Souls laugh*Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now lets see, Egan attacks spaz, spaz attacks whisper, whisper attacks spaz. Egan and spaz are the same range, so we'll roll to see who goes first. 1 for spaz, 5 for egan. So thats a win for egan. Lets roll out his other two attacks and then spaz's defensive rolls. So 5,3,1 vs 3,2,3. So he gets one hit in on the head. Normally he does 2 damage, but he's in an aggressive stance so he's dealing 3 damage. But spaz is in a defensive stance so reduces that to 2. Spaz's head HP reduced to 1, stunned. Ah, I guess it should reasonably stop this current instance too. That leaves whisper. Hmm rolls a 2. Moves in one on spaz, reduces range to zero, but fails to hit.
Ah, now we have three attacks all at once. Lets see...Spaz is stunned, Whisper attacks spaz, Egan attacks spaz. You guys need to start doing a daisy chain here, just an ouroboros of stabbing. Fits the game! Pretty sure whisper and spaz are at range zero now, so it's just a roll to see who goes first. 1,6. Ah well. Whisperling misses at least the first attack, egan gets his attack in first. 6vs5 on spaz's head. Deals two damage, slices spaz's head clean off. Lets move whisperling's target to egan and vice versa. So he missed that first attack, got a 4-1 on the second, to which egan rolls a 1. Their two stances cancel, so he deals 1 damage to Egan's left arm.
Egan attacks head, whisperling parries. 6+1vs2+1+1 Parry fails, 2+1-1 damage to head. Whisperling is decapitated!
Egan wins with a double decapitation in one turn!
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 08:48:11 pm
Do you think it's something you could enjoy? Or back to the drawing board?
Other people who were just watching can chime in too.
Post by: spazyak on April 24, 2016, 08:53:52 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 24, 2016, 09:22:01 pm
Also, you made a mistake on instance two where you say Spaz attacks Whisperling, when Spaz's second action is to feint me.
Egan cleans off his blade and makes a "Well what is it" pose.
Post by: syvarris on April 24, 2016, 09:54:06 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2016, 10:24:39 pm
I don't think you should automatically change targets if the target is dead, instead changing those instances to recovery.Yes, If we were to use this I'd definitely need something to keep track of these things a bit better than memory and winging it.
Also, you made a mistake on instance two where you say Spaz attacks Whisperling, when Spaz's second action is to feint me.
Egan cleans off his blade and makes a "Well what is it" pose.
I'm enjoying it. It's surprisingly fun to watch, and I think it could become quite entertaining to build characters in with just a bit more complexity. Doubly so if I get to help with the balancing, and I'm not entirely certain you can make me not do that.Yeah, Like I'm gonna say no to letting someone else handle fiddly balancing aspects of the game. You're officially hired for no money to sperg out on balance.
Post by: Whisperling on April 24, 2016, 10:44:01 pm
Actually, this does make me think about how you might handle cards with varying power levels. I assume that the really powerful ones would also come at a price (corruption, recovery, etc.), but it might be neat to include some other stuff as well. Persistent statuses, increased regeneration time, that sort of thing.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 24, 2016, 11:01:10 pm
Post by: Ozarck on April 25, 2016, 07:00:51 am
I am ... a little uncertain about the blend of methods, missions, city, and setting. It feels at this point like there are several disparate goals or points to the game which are being mashed together into an amalgam. For instance - early on, the game was described as combat focused. Later it was described as more strategy focused: get there in a limited amount of sessions with a limited amount of bases, doing the least amount of noticeable harm so the city reacts the least amount and kills you softly. additionally, the setting plays a huge role in the game, and as we have seen, there has been a trade off between detail of the setting, and simplicity for the sake of keeping things targeted to the 'end goal.'
I'm just windbagging a bit here, but the main point is that it would be worth considering what is the central and most important/ interesting aspect of the game, and tailoring the rest to fit that. it might mean discarding certain things, or adding others, or whatever. But it could make the game more manageable for the Gm and playable for the ... the players.
Anyway, the combat mechanics are fine, for a certain type of game, and I could get into it reasonably well, as long as I don't have to battle some elite collecting card game fanatic, who knows all the little tricks and expl;oits and all that and can own a game in three easy steps.
Post by: syvarris on April 25, 2016, 02:12:44 pm
I am ... a little uncertain about the blend of methods, missions, city, and setting. It feels at this point like there are several disparate goals or points to the game which are being mashed together into an amalgam. For instance - early on, the game was described as combat focused. Later it was described as more strategy focused: get there in a limited amount of sessions with a limited amount of bases, doing the least amount of noticeable harm so the city reacts the least amount and kills you softly. additionally, the setting plays a huge role in the game, and as we have seen, there has been a trade off between detail of the setting, and simplicity for the sake of keeping things targeted to the 'end goal.'
I'm just windbagging a bit here, but the main point is that it would be worth considering what is the central and most important/ interesting aspect of the game, and tailoring the rest to fit that. it might mean discarding certain things, or adding others, or whatever. But it could make the game more manageable for the Gm and playable for the ... the players.
This is something I was wondering about earlier, back when PW was asking for system suggestions. I kept ending up getting somewhat confused by the system's goals--on one hand, it should be a very modular, vauge system, which is very quick to run and can easily accomodate extremely strange creatures, right? That makes sense considering the setting, because we're not supposed to engage, and when we do we should be terrified, so combat being simple is okay; it's not a significant gameplay element. On the other hand... it kinda is. Aside from crafting and colonization, both of which are small and simple for the players, combat is the only system. Exploration is all well and good, but it's difficult to run a game off just exploration while keeping it interesting. It also doesn't allow much character individuality. All that implies that combat should be a deep system, and there should be significant amounts of combat being run.
It seems PW went with the latter option, where combat is the meat of the game. I don't really mind any option, as I'm fairly certain PW will run a good game regardless of what he does. At worst, he'll make a foolish decision and later rethink it, and add a couple weeks of dev time. Not a significant issue, IMO.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 25, 2016, 03:13:12 pm
e.g. do you stick your hand into the brain of this wasp sewn into the steering wheel of a ship, or just try and build a raft?
Or:
There are four furnaces, each with a picture of a blossom from a city garden, like the one with trees that tried to strangle you earlier. So do you try to work them with the wrong wood, wait for the trees to blossom on the next expedition and visit a bunch of gardens, or break into the Biology section of the grand library, which happens to be crawling with giant lice monsters, and nick some reference books?
Post by: Ozarck on April 25, 2016, 03:25:04 pm
About the only valuable thing I've seen the combat be mentioned as achieving, besides leveling, is gathering crafting resources.
... Pw does say that "if you get to the chemical gut of oro, you had better be ready to fight all out, run, or hide uhhhh, here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156860.msg6888004#msg6888004 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=156860.msg6888004#msg6888004), so I guess at some point you'll be up to the task of wading through hordes of enemies, cutting them down like grass and all that fun stuff. But ... ther ewas mention of an immune respose for when you get too noticed, too, so it's almost like you gotta be real sneaky, build bases and hide them, and carefully hunt for the sake of level and crafting material so that you can arm up and overcome the immune response when you get deep inside.
resource management rts and all that.
I think if my understanding of the game is anywhere near accurate (when has it been yet, though?), the type of character I would want to play is a stealth hunter type, but the problem is, you would be going on mission swith other players, who could get loud and incur the wrath of the immune system, so you might escape the upcoming holocaust, but not succeed in the mission goal.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 25, 2016, 03:34:02 pm
Post by: Ozarck on April 26, 2016, 06:57:00 am
therefore forget oro MAINSPRING NOWSure, why not :P
But seriously, I'm not trying to criticize or complain, if that is how that came across. just putting out some confused observations for consideration, since this is the development thread and all.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 26, 2016, 03:36:01 pm
Ok, so ignoring the finer details of things like balance, and assuming that in the future there would be more cards, more special moves, magic, etc, what do you think of this kind of combat?
Do you think it's something you could enjoy? Or back to the drawing board?
Other people who were just watching can chime in too.
Personally, from just watching the thing unfold, I don't think I really like the system. Too 'game-y' so to speak, and seems rather inflexible and limited. Although having more things in hard numbers can be convenient and help with predictability of your actions, I think I prefer a more traditional way of handling combat, aka one where you could use the situation and environment to your advantage. Not saying that such modifiers couldn't possibly be worked into the system, of course, but it'd be hard (and might go against the wish to make combat quicker).
therefore forget oro MAINSPRING NOWNEVER!
Post by: Pancaek on April 26, 2016, 03:58:33 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on April 26, 2016, 04:03:54 pm
Wasnt that the idea of a Turn-based system? And if so, has it worked?
Post by: Egan_BW on April 26, 2016, 04:14:00 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 26, 2016, 04:33:59 pm
I'm a bit of a biased party though, as I love extremely complex number-based systems.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 26, 2016, 08:14:01 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 27, 2016, 02:04:19 am
I think it might be interesting to remove RNG and GM discretion entirely from this system, creating a COMPLETELY DETERMINISTIC COMBAT SYSTEM *dramatic thunder clap*, which would be good because it lessens the amount of work that the Gm has to do for combat and also for reasons.I have no idea how you'd do it.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 27, 2016, 02:33:35 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 27, 2016, 07:32:50 am
Post by: piecewise on April 27, 2016, 11:51:41 am
Something like that might work if there's a rock-paper-scissors like system attached to it, where certain stances/techniques give bonuses against others. Otherwise 1 char/entity might be so powerful it literally can't even be scratched by another. It might quickly fall prey to 1 strategy being strictly superior though, and again would probably be very restrictive in terms of influence from the environment.Yeah, this is the problem. When you have total deterministic systems, you have the chance of fights that are literally unwinnable; where you can throw an infinite number of low level characters against an enemy and they will always fail.
Though, a rock paper scissors style thing might not be too bad. I had a lot of fun with a game called "Magic Pengel" back in the ps2 era that had combat based on a rock paper scissors mechanic.
Then again, I also had a lot of fun with phantom dust, and thats essentially a card based combat mechanic. Hmm.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 27, 2016, 12:08:29 pm
Which doesn't seem very different to just rtd, using d3s, and possibly multiple turns...
Post by: syvarris on April 27, 2016, 01:37:42 pm
Say, every player gets a certain number of stamina points, and regens to full every turn. When they play a card, they can choose to invest a certain number of stamina points in it (and they can play multiple cards).
So if you invest six points in an attack card, you make one attack at six accuracy--but it's defended against if your foe uses a defense of six or above. Defenses might have varied effectiveness--a parry might grant one defense per two stamina, and set your opponent's stamina to zero if it works, a dodge might grant one defense per stamina invested, and a block might grant two defense per stamina (but your shield will break eventually).
You'll still have the problem that extremely powerful people are basically immune to low level people. Also, it'll be harder for PW to not metagame, and if he randomizes demon stamina, the whole "pre-empt your opponent" part of the gameplay gets thrown out. Lastly, it's more complex.
Post by: piecewise on April 28, 2016, 08:46:12 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 28, 2016, 11:09:21 am
Post by: Ozarck on April 28, 2016, 11:40:18 am
A purely deterministic system is easy, you just have to add more complexity.Yeah, you made your own counterargument there: this is good for a PvP game, but bad for a PvE game, where the GM controls the mobs.
Say, every player gets a certain number of stamina points, and regens to full every turn. When they play a card, they can choose to invest a certain number of stamina points in it (and they can play multiple cards).
So if you invest six points in an attack card, you make one attack at six accuracy--but it's defended against if your foe uses a defense of six or above. Defenses might have varied effectiveness--a parry might grant one defense per two stamina, and set your opponent's stamina to zero if it works, a dodge might grant one defense per stamina invested, and a block might grant two defense per stamina (but your shield will break eventually).
You'll still have the problem that extremely powerful people are basically immune to low level people. Also, it'll be harder for PW to not metagame, and if he randomizes demon stamina, the whole "pre-empt your opponent" part of the gameplay gets thrown out. Lastly, it's more complex.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 28, 2016, 01:34:46 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 28, 2016, 02:14:46 pm
Well, we could always do a PvE test. MORE! MORE!
Preemptively signing up for this! Equipment: Two-handed
Post by: spazyak on April 28, 2016, 02:18:13 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 28, 2016, 02:21:05 pm
INwithaMaul
Post by: Whisperling on April 28, 2016, 03:32:18 pm
Post by: crazyabe on April 28, 2016, 05:40:40 pm
Post by: Ozarck on April 28, 2016, 05:53:15 pm
Post by: Kedly on April 28, 2016, 07:20:46 pm
Something like that might work if there's a rock-paper-scissors like system attached to it, where certain stances/techniques give bonuses against others. Otherwise 1 char/entity might be so powerful it literally can't even be scratched by another. It might quickly fall prey to 1 strategy being strictly superior though, and again would probably be very restrictive in terms of influence from the environment.Yeah, this is the problem. When you have total deterministic systems, you have the chance of fights that are literally unwinnable; where you can throw an infinite number of low level characters against an enemy and they will always fail.
Though, a rock paper scissors style thing might not be too bad. I had a lot of fun with a game called "Magic Pengel" back in the ps2 era that had combat based on a rock paper scissors mechanic.
Then again, I also had a lot of fun with phantom dust, and thats essentially a card based combat mechanic. Hmm.
I loved Magic Pengel. Unfortunately I played that game at a friends and I live up north, so the fact that that game was super rare meant I never got to play it again
Post by: syvarris on April 28, 2016, 07:52:26 pm
Also, obligatory link to Shadow of the Colossus's ISO. (http://www.emuparadise.mobi/Sony_Playstation_2_ISOs/Shadow_of_the_Colossus_(USA)/151218)
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 29, 2016, 04:04:31 am
Quote
Though, a rock paper scissors style thing might not be too bad. I had a lot of fun with a game called "Magic Pengel" back in the ps2 era that had combat based on a rock paper scissors mechanic.Rock paper scissors mechanics can be added to just about any system though, and become more difficult if you want more than 3 categories interacting (just look at the recent type chart for pokemon games). And phantom frisk had ability cards and such, but it was also an action game where you still had to actually go out and use them yourself in whatever way you saw fit, you didn't just select a card and watch what happened, which is what a card system here would probably entail.
Then again, I also had a lot of fun with phantom dust, and thats essentially a card based combat mechanic. Hmm.
Also, if we can suddenly reserve a spot on things that aren't even there yet, I'm calling dibs on the firstborn of the people who preemptively signed up. Also their livers. And primae noctis.
Post by: piecewise on April 29, 2016, 10:55:19 am
I feel like we're loosing track of one of our original goals here, that the system should be simple and straightforward for pw to run and use. I feel a system with no random dice element and a specific list of predetermined (combat) actions, that has to be varied enough to still be interesting and balanced, might get too complicated (or be simple but have an obvious best strategy 99% of the times). Not necessarily so, mind (chess has a limited list of actions and no random element and is stil deep and engaging, but not overly complex with its basics. Then again, that is a pinnacle of game design, and doesn't have to mesh well with other game elements and story considerations).You've got a good point. It's tricky to make a game both fun and quick. And inevitably it has to be quick otherwise 60 players ain't gonna work. Not unless we go full meat grinder and 60 players get to play because the average lifespan of a player is 10 turns out in the real world or something.QuoteThough, a rock paper scissors style thing might not be too bad. I had a lot of fun with a game called "Magic Pengel" back in the ps2 era that had combat based on a rock paper scissors mechanic.Rock paper scissors mechanics can be added to just about any system though, and become more difficult if you want more than 3 categories interacting (just look at the recent type chart for pokemon games). And phantom frisk had ability cards and such, but it was also an action game where you still had to actually go out and use them yourself in whatever way you saw fit, you didn't just select a card and watch what happened, which is what a card system here would probably entail.
Then again, I also had a lot of fun with phantom dust, and thats essentially a card based combat mechanic. Hmm.
Also, if we can suddenly reserve a spot on things that aren't even there yet, I'm calling dibs on the firstborn of the people who preemptively signed up. Also their livers. And primae noctis.
Time to abandon all pretense and just roll d6's at each other until someone dies!
But seriously we gotta find a way to make this viable and scaling. I should look into boardgames.
Post by: The Lupanian on April 29, 2016, 02:49:00 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 29, 2016, 03:40:42 pm
Honestly, I don't see what the flaw with the current system is. It works fine, it's quick, seemingly easy, and with a few more weapons/skills/cards, it can have a lot of customizability.
Post by: Ozarck on April 29, 2016, 05:43:01 pm
Also, if we can suddenly reserve a spot on things that aren't even there yet, I'm calling dibs on the firstborn of the people who preemptively signed up. Also their livers. And primae noctis.Joke's on you. Both of those already exist, and I've been doing a fine job of destroying them. All you'll get from me are responsibilities and sadness. Sucker.
Not unless we go full meat grinder and 60 players get to play because the average lifespan of a player is 10 turns out in the real world or something.
...
You could do something akin to what is happening in m27. make an officer class, an NCO class, and a "meat grinder" class.
Everyone starts at the bottom. Everyone's first character has the life expectancy of a sandwich.
Play a given number of these, or be actually successful with one through luck and skill, rather than through AFK Syndrome, and you get the option of playing an NCO. these guys could 'lead' either npc meatbags, or newbie teams, and would be responsible for actiually making objectives (not full missions, but the a part of a mission - take that hill, defend that husk, bring me a beer). Play enough of these, and you have the option to become an officer class, these guys have the possibility of actually directing missions and determining strategy and the like, whereas the tiers below do what they are told.
Edit to taste.
Also, this makes missions scaleable in another way as well. Meatbag tier episodes can be nasty, brutish, simple, and short. NCO tier could be along the lines of your card game thingy, and Officers (make sure this tier is a rarity, a treasure to be won [perhaps even not unlocked until a given number of players have each played a given number of ncos or such]) could be a tad more freeform. But with officer level, give hard limits, so that , while free form, the players remain under pressure. certain real life time limits, like "you have three rl days to get through this section, or your faith meters will be decaying at twice the rate. five days in, and most of you will become monstrous."
Time limits for action, would keep the pace going, though you would have to establish a method to handle "away for actual liefe" situations. additionally, quick paced games benefit certain types of players more than others - like the 'play by phone' set and the 'on summer break and have zero responsibilities' set.
Post by: piecewise on April 29, 2016, 09:35:18 pm
For instance, set up 5 turns like
Attack 1
Defend 1
parry 3
attack 2
attack 1
With each number being the number of dice you're gonna use to do the roll. More levels, more dice to use, better rolls.
Post by: syvarris on April 29, 2016, 09:53:41 pm
Joke's on you. Both of those already exist, and I've been doing a fine job of destroying them. All you'll get from me are responsibilities and sadness. Sucker.
...I'd really like to interpret that "both" as referring to your liver and primae noctis, for the humorous implications, but I'm guessing it isn't.
:(
Post by: Kedly on April 29, 2016, 10:40:14 pm
Nowadays, with the magic of emulators (http://pcsx2.net/), even games that used to be rare really aren't. (http://www.emuparadise.mobi/Sony_Playstation_2_ISOs/Magic_Pengel_-_The_Quest_for_Color_(USA)/150644)I wish the Vita had a form similar to the psp go. The PSP Go was perfect for portable emulation
Also, obligatory link to Shadow of the Colossus's ISO. (http://www.emuparadise.mobi/Sony_Playstation_2_ISOs/Shadow_of_the_Colossus_(USA)/151218)
Also, I haven't kept up to date with the ORO discussion. Did we abandon the concept of greater power coming alongside corruption? Because it seems like that concept right there keeps scaling from being too much of an issue. Aside from that I dont have any ideas at the moment for how to make combat quicker. Stating your general tactics and letting PW fill out the rest?
EG: Vincent is wary of the situation, he'll let others take charge if they want to, but he will contribute to the offense. If things seem hopeless he will flee
EG2:
Aggression: Low Medium High
Risk: Low Medium High
Defense: Low Medium High
Primary Range: Long Medium Short
Secondary Range: None Long Medium Short
Final range: Yes No
Chance of Fleeing: High Medium Low None
Help Teammates: Fight Heal Escape No
Maybe with the choice system have some bonuses or negatives to come with some choices, like crit chances being higher with high risk or something like that
Post by: Ozarck on April 30, 2016, 07:54:13 am
I mean all three. 8)Joke's on you. Both of those already exist, and I've been doing a fine job of destroying them. All you'll get from me are responsibilities and sadness. Sucker.
...I'd really like to interpret that "both" as referring to your liver and primae noctis, for the humorous implications, but I'm guessing it isn't.
:(
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 30, 2016, 08:55:34 am
Also, if we can suddenly reserve a spot on things that aren't even there yet, I'm calling dibs on the firstborn of the people who preemptively signed up. Also their livers. And primae noctis.Joke's on you. Both of those already exist, and I've been doing a fine job of destroying them. All you'll get from me are responsibilities and sadness. Sucker.
Livers, even used ones, always fetch a decent price in the organ markets of Hong Kong. As for firstborns, there's always room for one more in the acid mines deep in the Congo.
Quote
You've got a good point. It's tricky to make a game both fun and quick. And inevitably it has to be quick otherwise 60 players ain't gonna work. Not unless we go full meat grinder and 60 players get to play because the average lifespan of a player is 10 turns out in the real world or something.
Time to abandon all pretense and just roll d6's at each other until someone dies!
But seriously we gotta find a way to make this viable and scaling. I should look into boardgames.
Boardgames still have the advantage of usually being face-to-face affairs, but you could certainly have a looksie.
Maybe a system where monsters (and characters) have a minimal and maximal defense value. Attacking with an attack power below the minimum does nothing, above the maximum kills it, and a number in between the two does damage that weakens it but doesn't kill it, represented by lowering the minimum and/or maximum defense (making it easier to wound/kill) and maybe other effects (such as penalty to its attack power or something). Then combat becomes a game of stacking bonuses and multipliers, then simply checking whether the end attack number goes above the minimum or maximum defense, and applying effects as needed.
Could incorporate a wide range of effects (e.g. environmental +1 attack bonus due to high ground, ability to get '*2 defense at 5 faith power next round', etc.), easy to add rock paper scissors mechanics if wanted, allows for more freedom than a restrictive and limited set of moves but can be as quick or as slow as you want (since e.g. getting a number above the maximum means a kill, but this can be described as "you lob its head of, the end" or as a full combat sequence with the same end result, you killing the monster, but described as a series of events instead of 1 singular action). The difference in between the numbers could influence how the fight is described: if you just barely get above the maximum defense of the monster, the fight is described as you managing to kill it in a close fight, but if you go far above it's described as you easily dispatching the foe. Of course, dice could easily be used or not, as preferred (more deterministic vs some random elements).
Combat could be handled where first one entity attacks (attack power gets compared to defense of foe, damage is applied) after which the roles switch, or both could roll for attack at the same time, the values are compared to the other's defences, after which the combat is resolved in a more holistic way. Another advantage is that getting damaged has a very tangible effect: you really see your defense values lower, so a large number of weaker enemies could whittle your defenses down and you'd really feel yourself become more vulnerable (unlike an hp system, where lower hp does mean you are closer to death, but still equally 'effective' in combat, whereas actually lower defense value could make even a very weak starter enemy damage/kill you).
Quote
Honestly, I don't see what the flaw with the current system is. It works fine, it's quick, seemingly easy, and with a few more weapons/skills/cards, it can have a lot of customizability.
Personally, I feel like it's too narrow and restrictive, and doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle room in terms of e.g. creative use of environment and positioning. And can give strange results, such as when the target of your attack is already dead. Finally, I think it'd be more difficult to balance than a system where certain numbers and effects can be changed more easily as the game progresses (such as amount of bonus given by environmental advantages). More frustrating at times for players, of course, when it isn't always clear why their attack did or didn't work as expected, but it gives the gm more tools to create a story with.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 30, 2016, 09:50:54 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 30, 2016, 10:07:45 am
As for downsides, as pointed out in the post, it does lead to more vagueness for the player, which can be frustrating at times. It would also need good bookkeeping to keep track of all the modifiers, though it can be as complicated or simple as pw wants to make it.
Post by: syvarris on April 30, 2016, 03:13:27 pm
The former option, maintaining a list, is slightly better. I don't see PW doing it, but playsrs certainly could. We could keep a wiki page maintained with all situational bonuses that have occurred before, so that people know exactly what doing X strategy will do for them, and can tell PW so that he doesn't need to look it up.
Finally, your system strikes me as more problematic due to the vaugeness. If you don't define the mechanics of basic abilities like "move in/out", "block/parry/dodge", etc, people will come up with them on their own. And they will come up with many more variants than appear in the cards--what's the difference between charging in with a battleaxe, ready to strike, rolling in under the enemy's blade, or walking in with a heavy greatshield? Either there is little difference, and players have fewer options (leading to Ao's fear of "just attack" being the dominant strategy), or each variation must be defined and recorded (leading to an explosion of complexity).
I like the current system. You don't. You pointed out two valid flaws with it; positioning is irrelevant beyond range, and environmental bonuses are nonexistent. I don't think those two flaws are enough to warrant throwing away the entire system--why not just fix those flaws? We could add facing to the system, and maybe a "flank" card, or just let "move" cards be used to get closer, farther, or flank. Environmental bonuses are harder to use, but we could have them exist, with the caveat that the person using them can't move without losing them, or that they're nullified if the opponent successfully plays certain move cards. The bonuses themselves could be GM-defined beforehand, so that complexity is minimized, or player-defined as the game progresses, leading to an environmental system no better or worse than your system.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 30, 2016, 03:58:14 pm
One way to put it is that I think that giving the gm and players the tools and freedom they need to create an interesting and engaging story is more important than having a waterproof mechanical system. Sure, the latter might have less frustration and be less arbitrary, but I feel like it'd stymie creativity and expression and pull players out of the roleplaying experience and more into 'spreadsheet simulator 2016' territory. Note that there's nothing wrong inherently with the latter, but I do think that overall most people would have more fun with a looser system (which, upstanding utilitarians that we undoubtedly are, is the end goal here, right? Right? :P)
Something to note is that maybe it's not always a big loss if some 'small' differences are only really different fluff-wise, with their raw in-game effects being the same. You can't capture the entirety of physics (a very deterministic 'ruleset' that leads to every little difference having an influence) in a game system that's still fun and easy to use. However, there are options in between 'just attack' and 'map out every small difference', so that only differences that are 'big enough' really impact the gameplay, with the rest being mostly fluff (which shouldn't be underestimated, because even if it doesn't have a big in-game difference, people would still have more opportunity to personalize their character like this).
Basically, the amount of situational bonuses available can be determined by the gm so that not every small detail is accounted for, but sufficiently different strategies still have different outcomes, and people can come up with their own strategies and styles instead of being limited to a set of cards.
Post by: syvarris on April 30, 2016, 11:35:45 pm
Post by: Ozarck on April 30, 2016, 11:40:31 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 01, 2016, 03:27:54 am
Maybe I'll give a very short example of how the system I had in mind might work (just a very quick example, I'm not caring for balance or completeness here). There are, of course, a myriad ways in which this could be altered, so don't go pinning against details or imbalances here.
Spoiler: char sheet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: ye olde armory (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: example monsters (click to show/hide)
Also, you can have as much or as little dice influence as you want. For example, the dancing mantis attack value of 6 could easily be replaced by '1d6 + 2' to make things less predictable. Oh, and if you keep the 'stats' of the monsters hidden, you could have a rather deterministic system (for the gm) but where players can't precisely predict how much power they'll need to defeat something when they first encounter it, but over time they'll learn and be better able to deal with known enemies. For example, if you don't tell the players they take a hit on defense value when they're much slower than it, they'll have to figure that out by themselves by carefully reading the combat description (which would then need to actually reflect things like this, of course).
The system is a bit like the munchkin card game, which is easy to use but has the disadvantage that you need to do some basic arithmetic, which is only really annoying if you don't keep a quick sheet to easily keep track of the numbers (recalculating everything every time can be a drag, but with good bookkeeping support that should be very doable). You could replace the two defense values by just 1 defense value, or even just determine combat outcome by comparing a single 'combat power' number, highest wins, and difference between the two decide who wins and what the outcome is (a kill, a draw, or wounding so tnat its combat power drops, making a kill more likely next turn). The exact mechanics can be as simple or complicated as pw feels he can handle, but the base idea of just rolling up a lot of variables into a few/a single number(s) that are compared stays the same.
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 01, 2016, 09:15:14 am
Post by: syvarris on May 01, 2016, 02:38:41 pm
Okay... this is kinda nitpicking, but you really just posted an alternative health system. The system you posted isn't mutually exclusive with the card system, and would actually work pretty well with it. All you did was make health more complicated, and remove the card system for attacks and other combat actions.
@Paris
I think this kinda misses the point of Radio's complaints. If I understand him correctly, he wants creativity to be rewarded, and to not feel like his actions are completely limited to what appears on premade cards. This is why I suggested environmental effects be dictated by a character's movement; it allows people to use effects on the fly, as opportunity presents itself.
It also makes a bit more sense. If using Death From Above or Ambush bonuses requires a card, then a person has to sacrifice a normal card slot to make room for an environmental card that will be used very rarely. That said, I suppose it could be interesting if a player had a secondary deck of environmental cards, so a character can be built to be really skilled in certain types of areas. Hmm.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 01, 2016, 02:46:38 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 01, 2016, 08:20:20 pm
In fact, I bet that if we tried, we could easily come up with a number of environment cards, environment modifier cards, action cards and effect cards that apply to most situations a player is likely to encounter. And it probably won't end up being that many cards. The GM can then do different names, combinations and variations, but the basic cards will always be the same. If a very rare situation we hadn't anticipated comes up, then we just make something on the fly, like we always do
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 02, 2016, 12:16:27 am
About that list being short: perhaps we could just have move cards have different effects and effectiveness in different environments. For instance, the "Ambush" card would give a larger bonus in the jungle than in the plains. And "Death From Above" wouldn't work unless you can actually get physically above the enemy, so it would be hard to use in the plains.
Post by: piecewise on May 02, 2016, 02:20:45 pm
Player creativity and a reliable and complex combat system seem mutually exclusive, and the latter seems to be what PW desires. vOv?I just want something that people can have fun with, and that won't slow the game down too much so that we can actually get people out and back quickly enough to make our 5 man teams a not insurmountable bottle neck.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 02, 2016, 02:22:24 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 02, 2016, 03:15:57 pm
Quote
@Radio
Okay... this is kinda nitpicking, but you really just posted an alternative health system. The system you posted isn't mutually exclusive with the card system, and would actually work pretty well with it. All you did was make health more complicated, and remove the card system for attacks and other combat actions.
Like I said, that was made in like 5 minutes to demonstrate the core idea (multiple effects can be rolled up into 1 or a few numbers that can easily be compared to determine combat outcome). I suppose the max defense functions as a sort of hp, but it could be done away with on favor of a normal hp system, or chunky salsa, or only 1 defense value, or something else. The core idea stands, far as I can see.
Quote
@Paris
I think this kinda misses the point of Radio's complaints. If I understand him correctly, he wants creativity to be rewarded, and to not feel like his actions are completely limited to what appears on premade cards. This is why I suggested environmental effects be dictated by a character's movement; it allows people to use effects on the fly, as opportunity presents itself.
True, that is probably the core element here, along with not being restricted to the imagination of the person/people making the cards. Say a monster is going to escape to alert his friends, we have no ranged weapon ammo available and our fast char is down for the count. In desperation, I might try to do something unconventional and just throw my longsword at the thing and hope against hope it strikes true. A long shot, probably at a decent penalty, but at least I have the option to try stuff like this. In the card system, I couldn't do this unless someone made a card for it, and even then I probably wouldn't take it during mission prep because the amount of cards is limited and it's such a circumstantial thing. I guess something like an "unconventional attack" card(s) could be devised to account for it, but those cards would be empty catch-all cards and kinda go against the spirit of the system, where everything is well defined and predictable/reliable.
Another element is the fact that I think a card system is less immersive, but that's a more minor point.
Quote
Player creativity and a reliable and complex combat system seem mutually exclusive, and the latter seems to be what PW desires. vOv?
The way I see it it's more of a sliding scale between the two, and we're trying to find an optimal balance.
Quote
I just want something that people can have fun with, and that won't slow the game down too much so that we can actually get people out and back quickly enough to make our 5 man teams a not insurmountable bottle neck.
PW, could you perhaps describe to us how you expect/desire the average expedition to go, in terms of "first X turns faffing about, then some 3-ish turn combat, then more faffing, some more combat of about Y turns on average, whole affair should be over in Z turns, then the next party leaves".
Post by: 4 on May 02, 2016, 04:11:44 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 02, 2016, 09:50:42 pm
I actually do like your defense system, and I wouldn't be unhappy if it were used with the card system. I was more pointing out that it didn't seem to help your side at all--it's just a minor tweak of one small aspect of the system, rather than an overhaul, like the rest of your post seemed to imply. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.
Anyway, I think it's a decent system to use if the current one is too cumbersome for PW (IMO, he's the only person that should care about complexity--I doubt there will be many players who dislike increased HP granularity). However, if the current system isn't too cumbersome for him, it should be used instead, because it allows for more interesting tactics and situations; in the current system, you can target someone's leg to cripple them, or their arm to weaken them.
As for your problems with the card system... well, we've already been over it. My opinion is that the flaws you list are systemic, and lesser than the flaws with a freeform system. As I've said before, I think a freeform system would be less interesting and have much simpler gameplay, but I also imagine it would have more roleplaying and be more flavorful. I value the former more (which is why I've never joined Infinite Heavens or Poison), while others value the latter more. *shrug*
A second, probably more important concern, is time. On one hand, a freeform system has less complexity during each turn, so more turns can be run in quick succession without overworking PW. On the other hand... I think a defined system is much easier to predict and plan within, so more turns can be run without the players feeling disconnected with their characters.
...Maybe this could be another vote thing? The argument's started to repeat, so I think we seem to have done as much discussion as is useful. The best tiebreaker under this situation would be to just ask people whether they prefer a crunchy or flavory system.
Post by: piecewise on May 03, 2016, 09:21:43 am
Was the corruption mechanic a "carrot and stick" (well, stick) feature to drive players on then?Not sure what you're asking. I fully intend to still have it, I'm just trying to get the basics figured out so I can integrate it.
For instance in the card system I'd probably have the special moves drain faith to use. I don't think it would be hard to meld it with any system really.
PW, could you perhaps describe to us how you expect/desire the average expedition to go, in terms of "first X turns faffing about, then some 3-ish turn combat, then more faffing, some more combat of about Y turns on average, whole affair should be over in Z turns, then the next party leaves".The game is so far set up a lot like the old Perplexicon part 2; you've got a level with stuff in it, you've got a boss, you've got random encounters and scripted encounters and secret passages and such like that. Much more dungeon crawly than ER's open world faffing around; still freedom to go where you want, but it manifests more as choosing a path rather than just wandering off. So you might spend a turn or two in each "room" maybe 3 if you really wanna look around, and then move on to the next. And you move through until you get combat, which should take 3 turns at most to do. One of the driving forces of ending the expedition and returning will be fatigue from characters being injured, dying or losing faith. Getting through one level would probably take several tries, pushing in, exploring, fighting, limping back, sending out the next team.
What I want is a system that allows players to have various special abilities and use them reasonably and reactively in combat without combat taking more than a few turns at most. In my mind that can't be done without either having some manner of automation (ie multiple turns in one turn) or having the system be so brutal that one or two hits is fatal. Which is fine with me, honestly, but I'm not sure players would be happy with it.
Post by: Ozarck on May 03, 2016, 09:38:18 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 03, 2016, 11:11:31 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 03, 2016, 11:46:20 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 03, 2016, 11:50:38 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 03, 2016, 11:52:04 am
Post by: piecewise on May 03, 2016, 11:58:28 am
I'm gonna try and think on a quick via brutal system and see what I can get and then we'll try it out. See what people think. What it in general will be is
1. Low HP, high damage
2. Offense oriented
3. Designed in such a way that mutual misses don't happen. Someone is always being hit.
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 01:12:14 am
Players have 10 HP.
Get wrecked.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 04, 2016, 03:22:18 am
Characters roll d6. Winner does their roll in damage.You're missing the complexity element. But that doesn't matter if you make the system really arcane and tell noone.
Players have 10 HP.
Get wrecked.
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 10:12:17 am
Nah, I was joking. I'm still thinkingCharacters roll d6. Winner does their roll in damage.You're missing the complexity element. But that doesn't matter if you make the system really arcane and tell noone.
Players have 10 HP.
Get wrecked.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 04, 2016, 10:31:25 am
Players get a d4, low-level monsters start with at least d6. Players can spend faith to increase the number of sides, one side per point spent. Players have 3 hp, which can be raised to 5 hp with heavy armor, at the cost of lowering your attack die to d3. Monsters start with 5 hp, and can be raised to 12 hp with light armor with no encumberence. Players start with 10 faith, and gain one for each kill, but can't regain them any other way. Also, faith gained this way slowly corrupts them.
None of this information is visible to players. They can only make descriptive actions to attack and cannot see exactly how much faith they have or choose exactly how much faith to spend, instead the GM chooses based on the context of the action. In addition, the GM can choose to give dice bonuses to players and monsters according to the situation.
I call it X-ORO.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 04, 2016, 10:49:56 am
The important thing is to say something like:
"This uses a mostly hidden tiered experience system with multiple n-sided dice for attack and defense, and takes environmental bonuses and multipliers into account, while enemies attack according to algorithmic from a random hand from a handcrafted premade deck of cards, attacks taking into accoun risk, poise, damage, weapon range and positioning, defence taking into account reaction, armour level, endurance, poise, agility and faith, while multiple other factors become invovled or uninvolved due to situational modifiers."
As long as you don't tell people what the real system is, everyone's happy.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 04, 2016, 10:56:35 am
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 02:42:52 pm
Yes, a simple system like that would be fine.Ah, the David Cage method.
The important thing is to say something like:
"This uses a mostly hidden tiered experience system with multiple n-sided dice for attack and defense, and takes environmental bonuses and multipliers into account, while enemies attack according to algorithmic from a random hand from a handcrafted premade deck of cards, attacks taking into accoun risk, poise, damage, weapon range and positioning, defence taking into account reaction, armour level, endurance, poise, agility and faith, while multiple other factors become invovled or uninvolved due to situational modifiers."
As long as you don't tell people what the real system is, everyone's happy.
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 02:43:46 pm
I'm real sorry about being gone so much. Feel like I'm not getting shit done here.
Post by: syvarris on May 04, 2016, 02:50:25 pm
Anyway, don't sweat it. Your education/job is more important than entertaining a bunch of monkies online. And this is finals season anyway, so the only students who're getting anything done that isn't schoolwork are horrible procrastinators like myself.
Post by: syvarris on May 04, 2016, 02:50:38 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 03:50:18 pm
When you said you'd have some time in the hospital, I had a half-second of panic before I remembered that you're there for educational purposes.
Anyway, don't sweat it. Your education/job is more important than entertaining a bunch of monkies online. And this is finals season anyway, so the only students who're getting anything done that isn't schoolwork are horrible procrastinators like myself.
That is a rarely seen contraction there sy.
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 04, 2016, 04:04:59 pm
When you said you'd have some time in the hospital, I had a half-second of panic before I remembered that you're there for educational purposes.
Anyway, don't sweat it. Your education/job is more important than entertaining a bunch of monkies online. And this is finals season anyway, so the only students who're getting anything done that isn't schoolwork are horrible procrastinators like myself.
That is a rarely seen contraction there sy.
I see you doing something that's not studying pw.
*whip crack noises*
Post by: syvarris on May 04, 2016, 04:28:56 pm
That is a rarely seen contraction there sy.
...Huh? Which one? "You would", "you are", "do not", "who are", and "is not" all seem pretty standard to me...
Seriously, I'm confused. Also, apparently I use a lot more contractions than I'd think. Huh.
Post by: DoctorMcTaalik on May 04, 2016, 04:37:49 pm
I'd
....
I assume he means "who're". That's one I say all the time, but usually refrain from typing out.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 04, 2016, 05:10:39 pm
... I find the fact that pw needs the least concentration when near actual patients... a little worrying.
Don't get those alpha and gamma source confused!
Post by: syvarris on May 04, 2016, 05:37:38 pm
You're probably right. I'm probably gonna forget the apostrophe at some point, and that'll be interesting. "students whore getting".
@NJW
I don't believe I've ever seen a doctor in a hospital actually concentrate on a patient that they're talking to, though I'd presume they pay more attention during operations and such. My sister, who is a nurse, has said that doctors
I hope PW's studying to be a nurse and not a doctor, as doctors have very little free time, but I have a half-formed proto memory which says he's gonna be a Doctor. :\
Post by: Pancaek on May 04, 2016, 06:28:35 pm
he's gonna be a Doctor.
"Morning sunshine, you broke your arm in a few places so we lopped it off and put a robot arm in its place." ... "What do you mean it's just a PVC pipe with an oven glove glued on? Well yeah, I don't have an actual robot prostethic yet, those things take time and I'm not some kind of omnipotent wetware ai yet. I mulched your broken arm and made it into a hamburger though, so that's one less hospital meal they'll bill you for."
Post by: piecewise on May 04, 2016, 10:53:02 pm
Weapons still have range and damage, and a speed value. Speed values are negatives.
4 stats that exist so far, Vit, Dex, Strength, Endurance.
Still using hp with armor. But HP is low. Armor is a buffer.
Basic idea is very similar to the idea I said already; Combatants just roll dice at each other, winner hits.
Range of the weapon adds an "Effective bonus" ie It gives +1 or +2 or whatever to the contest between the dice, but not to the damage dealt. Ie, 3+1 vs 2 would still deal 3 damage.
Speed number is determined by Dex. Your weapon acts as a negative against your natural speed, which is considered to be your speed bare handed. Speed works like this: Speed is a static number determined by your dex - penalties from weapon and armor. Your speed only matters when you beat your opponent by double his speed or more. ie 3vs5 doesn't do anything, but 3 vs 6 would. The bonus it gives you is that if you have double speed, you roll two dice, keep the highest. Triple, you roll 3 and keep the highest. etc.
Strength determines the base number of faced die you roll. Ie 6 strength, you roll a D6. 10, D10. Etc. The set damage of the weapon is added to this. Ie, Roll + static weapon damage= damage dealt.
Vit is HP, spread via ratio through the body parts.
Endurance is basically equip load. Armor gives you extra HP to work with, but it also gives you speed penalties. Points in endurance negate these. Ie, if you have armor with -10 speed, but you have 8 endurance, your effective speed loss is only 2.
I figure this will allow people to create builds based on gear and weapons and such, choose opponents, and then have the fights go very quickly and simply.
Special moves can be used to buff stats, increase bonuses, temporarily change weapon attributes, or enable passive or active effects.
Opinions?
Post by: renegadelobster on May 04, 2016, 11:13:12 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 04, 2016, 11:48:28 pm
Endurance should do more. The way you described it, it's entirely inferior to speed; for every point of END, you get one less -1 speed from armor weight... but for every point of speed, you get +1 speed, which has the same effect if you're encumbered, and actually has an effect at all if you aren't.
Also, I don't really see the point of buffing anything aside from SPD and STR, at least when only concerned with direct combat. Spending a lot on VIT/END means SPD/STR builds will almost always hit you, so it just means you wait a while longer to die, practically never getting a hit in. VIT/END could be buffed if there's environmental traps which just do guaranteed damage, though.
Also, VIT could easily be inferior to END, or vice-versa, since they pretty much exclusively affect the exact same thing. If ten points of END lets you wear 15 points of armor without penalty, while ten points of VIT grants you 10 HP, nobody smart would pick VIT. Easy ways to fix that would be to make armor be expensive (so VIT's free, end's not), or to make VIT grant more HP than END grants armor, but you can choose how to distribute armor across the body.
...I've been saying STR/DEX would be best, but it would probably be pure STR. 40 STR means you roll more than 20 half the time, and anyone with less strength than whatever you rolled would find it impossible to hit you, even if they get twenty die due to speed. Of course, there's a tiny chance of rolling a one or something, but that's so unlikely it scarcely matters, especially since you'll probably one-shot basically anything.
Hmm. Diminishing returns could sorta balance it, simply by making it worthless to invest in things after a point, but then there probably wouldn't be a lot of individuality between characters.
Of course, these statements could all be altered greatly depending on what abilities exist. For instance, an ability which lets you add your total amount of armor to an attack roll at the cost of some FTH would make a tank char more powerful compared to a STR/DEX char. However, I doubt abilities would grant much creativity unless there's just tons of them with interconnecting effects, in which case the simplicity is lost. So, yeah... munchkin's crying.
THIRD EDIT:
Maybe armor could provide DR, rather than additional HP? And if you take less damage than you have DR, you automatically hit? That makes a tank build more interesting, and makes the difference between VIT and END more notable. It acts as a hard counter against DEX, and sorta-kinda counters STR by making it harder for them to one-shot you, increasing your chance of getting a lucky hit. Of course, you'd need some rule like "you cannot have negative speed", or else
FOURTH:
How does range work? If both people attack every turn, that means nobody's sacrificing an attack to close/retreat and get a better bonus. If both people get to change range once per turn, it'd just cancel out unless they have a competing roll. If said roll uses the attack numbers, it inherently favors status quo because one person probably has a shorter range than the other, so it'd probably be best to base it on SPD. An alternative would be to just lower range by one each turn, which could be interesting.
Also, does range work like the previous combat test, where a range 1 weapon never gets a bonus and a range 4 weapon never gets a penalty? I think the flaw there is obvious.
Post by: piecewise on May 05, 2016, 01:12:13 am
My inner munchkin weeps at the simplicity. I suppose the system's fine, though.I think you missed the line about what range does
Endurance should do more. The way you described it, it's entirely inferior to speed; for every point of END, you get one less -1 speed from armor weight... but for every point of speed, you get +1 speed, which has the same effect if you're encumbered, and actually has an effect at all if you aren't.
Also, I don't really see the point of buffing anything aside from SPD and STR, at least when only concerned with direct combat. Spending a lot on VIT/END means SPD/STR builds will almost always hit you, so it just means you wait a while longer to die, practically never getting a hit in. VIT/END could be buffed if there's environmental traps which just do guaranteed damage, though.
Also, VIT could easily be inferior to END, or vice-versa, since they pretty much exclusively affect the exact same thing. If ten points of END lets you wear 15 points of armor without penalty, while ten points of VIT grants you 10 HP, nobody smart would pick VIT. Easy ways to fix that would be to make armor be expensive (so VIT's free, end's not), or to make VIT grant more HP than END grants armor, but you can choose how to distribute armor across the body.
...I've been saying STR/DEX would be best, but it would probably be pure STR. 40 STR means you roll more than 20 half the time, and anyone with less strength than whatever you rolled would find it impossible to hit you, even if they get twenty die due to speed. Of course, there's a tiny chance of rolling a one or something, but that's so unlikely it scarcely matters, especially since you'll probably one-shot basically anything.
Hmm. Diminishing returns could sorta balance it, simply by making it worthless to invest in things after a point, but then there probably wouldn't be a lot of individuality between characters.Peoplemunchkins would still level the "best" stat(s) primarily, with the only individuality coming from exactly what they see as breakpoints, and what they think are good secondary stats. So, you might see STR/VIT, STR/END, and STR/DEX, but anyone who doesn't have one of those three would die if they fought one. And STR/DEX would probably win against the other two most of the time.
Of course, these statements could all be altered greatly depending on what abilities exist. For instance, an ability which lets you add your total amount of armor to an attack roll at the cost of some FTH would make a tank char more powerful compared to a STR/DEX char. However, I doubt abilities would grant much creativity unless there's just tons of them with interconnecting effects, in which case the simplicity is lost. So, yeah... munchkin's crying.
THIRD EDIT:
Maybe armor could provide DR, rather than additional HP? And if you take less damage than you have DR, you automatically hit? That makes a tank build more interesting, and makes the difference between VIT and END more notable. It acts as a hard counter against DEX, and sorta-kinda counters STR by making it harder for them to one-shot you, increasing your chance of getting a lucky hit. Of course, you'd need some rule like "you cannot have negative speed", or elseI'llsomeone will just go for max STR and get all the heaviest armor, granting them 1d40 rolls, 20 DR, and -80 SPD.
FOURTH:
How does range work? If both people attack every turn, that means nobody's sacrificing an attack to close/retreat and get a better bonus. If both people get to change range once per turn, it'd just cancel out unless they have a competing roll. If said roll uses the attack numbers, it inherently favors status quo because one person probably has a shorter range than the other, so it'd probably be best to base it on SPD. An alternative would be to just lower range by one each turn, which could be interesting.
Also, does range work like the previous combat test, where a range 1 weapon never gets a bonus and a range 4 weapon never gets a penalty? I think the flaw there is obvious.
Quote
Range of the weapon adds an "Effective bonus" ie It gives +1 or +2 or whatever to the contest between the dice, but not to the damage dealt. Ie, 3+1 vs 2 would still deal 3 damage.
It should be noted that the numbers and stuff I gave weren't final and that the ratios here are not what I intended. Specifically:
Speed vs Endurance:
Even though I used numbers that made it seem like this, the speed regained via just pumping speed to offset armor wouldn't be as good as if you pumped endurance. For instance, again just an example not any actual numbers, armor with a -10 speed could be offset by +10 dex or +3 end. Something like that.
Vit vs End:
The big difference here is that HP heals, armor doesn't. And Repairing armor takes money and requires you to be in town. So you can go in there in heavy as fuck armor and just tank but if you have 2 hp past that armor and run into a rust monster or something, you are fucked. DR could work too, so you can tank through hits.
Str is op:
Yeah, kinda. Diminishing returns could work but it's still problematic because getting a generally higher number is always a better idea that just about anything.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 05, 2016, 01:39:45 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 05, 2016, 03:51:05 am
It just means they heft weapons that are a challenge to manipulate due to weight faster, and can deliver more force while hitting (their own strength will continue the blow into somebody's ribs, for example.)
[attempts to deal with possible solutions to this eradicated to to failure/finals]
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 05, 2016, 05:37:05 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 05, 2016, 05:49:56 am
Ergo:
PW needs to nerf strength when it comes to determining who attacks.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 05, 2016, 08:24:56 am
Post by: Ozarck on May 05, 2016, 09:00:48 am
Miriad rules now flow through my head and I'm tempted to create a MINIORO. And thus continue to pretend that the other game I started doesn't exist. <_< I may not have much focus, sorry about that.I'm considering making a tier based military slugfest myself. just ... drop people into the fictional version of d-day and let them die repeatedly on the shores of normandy, hopping from island to island in the fictional Pacific, and getting eaten by dinotigers in Cleveland.
Post by: piecewise on May 05, 2016, 10:09:06 am
Hell, the easiest would be just rolling your level. Level 10, roll d10. Would sure make balancing enemies easier.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 05, 2016, 10:11:52 am
Post by: renegadelobster on May 05, 2016, 10:29:19 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 05, 2016, 10:33:32 am
Post by: piecewise on May 05, 2016, 10:35:59 am
Nah, adult humans are lvl 3, and our characters start trained up to lvl 4. An infant or squirrel would be lvl 1.
Maybe have it be your level plus 2? Otherwise I feel surviving from level 1 to level 2 will be a miracle. I mean, all of us having d1's trying to take down a monster will be funny as all hell, but still. Would make the game extremely deadly and encourage cooperation between players though...
What it would probably be is that you start at level 6 or something, not at 1 or 0.
Do people like the idea of classes or do they want a more free form thing where they do their own build from the ground up?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 05, 2016, 10:48:14 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 05, 2016, 11:25:13 am
Though that might make it harder to make cool mechanics for particular classes, like the zealot you talked about earlier.
Post by: piecewise on May 05, 2016, 11:36:30 am
Yeah, I'd say do it dank souls style, where classes just decide what stuff you start with, and you can grow anywhere from there, end up getting the things other classes start with, etc.I could tie that stuff to just weapon skills, so using nothing but your fists would unlock those skills, and have the other skills be "learnable" if you have enough stats in X or Y.
Though that might make it harder to make cool mechanics for particular classes, like the zealot you talked about earlier.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 05, 2016, 11:42:51 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 07, 2016, 03:27:31 am
Nah, adult humans are lvl 3, and our characters start trained up to lvl 4. An infant or squirrel would be lvl 1.Maybe have it be your level plus 2? Otherwise I feel surviving from level 1 to level 2 will be a miracle. I mean, all of us having d1's trying to take down a monster will be funny as all hell, but still. Would make the game extremely deadly and encourage cooperation between players though...
What it would probably be is that you start at level 6 or something, not at 1 or 0.
Do people like the idea of classes or do they want a more free form thing where they do their own build from the ground up?
Maybe just give a class a small bonus to a relevant stat/skill, and 1/few special ability from their weapon/technique of choice. Others could learn these abilities as well if they invest in it, but they'll be behind compared to one who starts in that direction.
Post by: piecewise on May 09, 2016, 09:39:42 am
I need a few people to play it. first 5, lets say, for beating each other to death. Post what kind of weapon you want, melee, preferably something reasonable.
Post by: spazyak on May 09, 2016, 09:42:40 am
Post by: renegadelobster on May 09, 2016, 10:17:19 am
Post by: ZBridges on May 09, 2016, 10:17:58 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 09, 2016, 11:01:05 am
Post by: Egan_BW on May 09, 2016, 11:17:23 am
Post by: crazyabe on May 09, 2016, 01:54:07 pm
Count me in the next test run (if there is one) with a Falcata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcata).
Post by: NJW2000 on May 09, 2016, 02:16:50 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 09, 2016, 02:35:36 pm
Post by: Ozarck on May 09, 2016, 02:38:13 pm
Well in that case... gonna claim a spot in for ORO, PW's next game after that, anything by Orzack or HB, and the next game of perplexicon anyone runs on the forums :P
Orz - Ack! sounds like a fun Japanese game show.
Post by: syvarris on May 09, 2016, 02:42:18 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 09, 2016, 08:46:04 pm
Ozark japanese confirmedWell in that case... gonna claim a spot in for ORO, PW's next game after that, anything by Orzack or HB, and the next game of perplexicon anyone runs on the forums :P
Orz - Ack! sounds like a fun Japanese game show.
Now I can truely say your are senpai
What a lovely day it is
Post by: piecewise on May 13, 2016, 01:08:31 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 13, 2016, 02:30:48 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 13, 2016, 03:33:53 am
Minor system problem: 50 foot daggers.
Put it in orbit, call it the 'sword of Damocles' or something equally cheesy, and we're good.
Post by: Ozarck on May 13, 2016, 06:26:40 am
I know! "Paracel - " Never mind, that one is taken.Minor system problem: 50 foot daggers.
Put it in orbit, call it the 'sword of Damocles' or something equally cheesy, and we're good.
how do you get 50 foot daggers? that seems a tad out of place? That would be more like, a fifty foot slab of steel or something. How frikken big are these monsters?
Let's see: a normal dagger would have a blade typically between 7 and 12 inches. So, say a handle of 5 inches, and that gives us a foot to a foot and a half for a normal dagger, for a person of five and a half to six feet. so, a long dagger for a short person 1 1/2' for 5 1/2'. the person would be 3.67 times the height of the dagger. so, minimum height for the weilder would be 183 feet.
For a six ffot person wielding a one foot dagger, the ratio makes the wielder of one of these monsters 300 feet tall.
great. PW has us fighting two hundred to three hundred foot daggerbeings, and probably four hundred foot claymore masters. before we even get started.
Post by: piecewise on May 13, 2016, 08:36:33 am
Here's the basics:
Vit: each point gives 10 hp divided up like this: 3 in upper body, 2 in lower body, 1 in each limb and 1 in the head.
Dex: each point adds 1 speed
Str: Each point adds +1 damage
End: Each point counters 3 weight from armor. Every 3 points gives 1 point of natural armor.
The problem is that, like that, A weapon with a range of +2 for instance, will stop having any real functional advantage after a while due to the bonus being superseded by high level numbers. If you're rolling D25 a +2 doesn't mean much. And in that way, speed and damage will dominate; meaning endgame people will be choosing the quickest weapons, since longer ranged ones would inevitably be slower due to their size. Ie, dagger is faster than spear.
The counter to this is to have higher level weapons give greater range bonuses to keep up with player advancement. Which, while purely a gameplay mechanic, gives the odd impression that a beginning dagger has range zero, and a high level dagger has range 15, whatever that means.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 08:44:28 am
That is, all daggers have the same range, but that range gives a bonus that's a particular percentage of your attack dice's faces.
That is that is, a dagger gives a +1 range bonus for every 6 strength you have, while a pike gives +1 for every 2.
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 13, 2016, 09:32:03 am
Post by: piecewise on May 13, 2016, 10:34:56 am
Ok, I'm taking
Hmm...Why not a Halberd
Let's go with... a bo staff
Longsword.
Stiletto
Shitty peasant pitchfork.
I do believe I was First.Count me in the next test run (if there is one) with a Falcata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcata).
All these people.
Stats are as said above:
Vit
Dex
Str
End
They start as follows
Vit: 1
Dex: 1
Str:1
End:1
At level 1. You have 5 points to put into whatever stats you want. I'll get your weapons made up today while I'm volunteering and get back to you with them soon.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 13, 2016, 10:42:31 am
Strength: 2
Vit: 2
End: 1
Post by: spazyak on May 13, 2016, 10:54:41 am
Vit:3
Dex:2
End:1
Weapon:Halberd.
Post by: crazyabe on May 13, 2016, 11:31:07 am
Vit: 2
Dex: 3
Str: 3
End: 1
Post by: Ozarck on May 13, 2016, 11:59:55 am
(http://www.tdpri.com/attachments/image-2379457689-jpg.258234/)
Post by: renegadelobster on May 13, 2016, 12:27:17 pm
Dex:3
Str:3
End:1
Post by: ZBridges on May 13, 2016, 01:21:31 pm
Dex: 4
Str: 2
End: 2
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 13, 2016, 01:24:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 01:29:31 pm
Dex: 1
Str: 6
End:1
Str is still very important and the kind of thing I'd tie directly to character level.
Post by: piecewise on May 13, 2016, 03:27:37 pm
A longsword has stats of 2,2,-2, ie two damage, two range, 2 speed penalty. If we apply these numbers we get your effective damage, range and speed.
Str:3Halberd is 3,3,-4. Meaning Spaz's effective damage is 6, his range is 3, and his speed is -2.
Vit:3
Dex:2
End:1
Weapon:Halberd.
Here are his effective stats:
Str:3 (6)
Vit:3 (H3,La3,Ra3,C9,S6,Ll3,Rl3) (this is a breakdown of Hp in locations, head, left and right arm, chest, stomach, Left and right leg. In order to get these numbers, look at your vit. take that number and multiply it by 1 for the hp of all limbs and head, 2 for stomach and 3 for chest.)
Dex:2 (-2)
End:1
Rng: +3
If you would be so kind as to update your own stat sheets similarly, please do so.
Vit:21,3,-2 Bo staff
Dex:3
Str:3
End:1
Vit: 12,2,-2 Long sword
Dex: 4
Str: 2
End: 2
Dex: 41,1,0 Stiletto
Strength: 2
Vit: 2
End: 1
Vit: 1
Dex: 1
Str: 6
End:1
Str is still very important and the kind of thing I'd tie directly to character level.
2,3,-3 Pitchfork
Post by: renegadelobster on May 13, 2016, 03:48:29 pm
Dex: 3 (+1)
Str: 3 (4)
End: 1
Rng: +3
Weapon: Bo staff (1,3,-2)
I believe I did it right.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 03:51:20 pm
Spoiler: Stupidly overcomplicated charsheet, it menaces with spikes of bbcode. (click to show/hide)
/me Has nightmares about bbcode.
Post by: ZBridges on May 13, 2016, 03:54:25 pm
Vit: 1 (H1, La1, Ra 1, C3, S2, Ll1, Rl1)
Dex: 4 (2)
Rng: 2
End: 1
Weapon: Longsword (2, 2, -2)
Is that right?
Post by: NJW2000 on May 13, 2016, 05:36:09 pm
Str. 2 [3]
Vit. 2 [h2, la2, ra2, c6, s4, ll2, rl2]
Dex. 4 [4]
End.1
Rng. 1
someone check pls, this was a bit fiddly on phone so I likely screwed up.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 05:53:33 pm
Also that looks good to me, NJW.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 13, 2016, 05:59:28 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 06:00:53 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 13, 2016, 06:09:12 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 06:21:26 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 13, 2016, 09:32:51 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 10:14:23 pm
More seriously, I could fix it by making little images with alt text that represent the stats. Kinda Dark Souls style. But I don't really want to put that much work in at the moment. :P
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 13, 2016, 10:25:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 13, 2016, 10:47:13 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 14, 2016, 11:05:00 am
Str:3 (6)
Vit:3 (H3,La3,Ra3,C9,S6,Ll3,Rl3)
Dex:2 (-2)
End:1
Rng: +3
Halberd
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ren
Vit: 2 (H2, La2, Ra2, C6, S4, Ll2, Rl2)
Dex: 3 (+1)
Str: 3 (4)
End: 1
Rng: +3
Weapon: Bo staff (1,3,-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zbridges
Str: 2 (4)
Vit: 1 (H1, La1, Ra 1, C3, S2, Ll1, Rl1)
Dex: 4 (2)
Rng: 2
End: 1
Weapon: Longsword (2, 2, -2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NJW
Str. 2 [3]
Vit. 2 [h2, la2, ra2, c6, s4, ll2, rl2]
Dex. 4 [4]
End.1
Rng. 1
Stiletto
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Egan
Str: 8
Dex: -2
End:1
Rng: 2
Pitchfork
Hit Points:
| He: | 1/1 | ||||
| La: | 1/1 | Ub: | 3/3 | Ra: | 1/1 |
| Lb: | 2/2 | ||||
| Ll: | 1/1 | Rl: | 1/1 |
Now, attack whoever you want.
Post by: renegadelobster on May 14, 2016, 12:40:54 pm
Spoiler: PW's eyes only (click to show/hide)
Post by: ZBridges on May 14, 2016, 01:29:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on May 14, 2016, 01:32:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: NJW2000 on May 14, 2016, 04:11:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on May 14, 2016, 04:55:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
5+3 vs (3+2)or (3+2) or (6+2). 6+2 used.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tie
1+1, or 1+1, or 4+1, or 6+1 v 3+3Spoiler (click to show/hide)
NJW wins on speed
Deals 3 damage to head. Kills Ren.
Post by: renegadelobster on May 14, 2016, 04:58:52 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 14, 2016, 05:11:01 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 14, 2016, 05:43:06 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 14, 2016, 05:44:00 pm
Attack NJW in the lower body, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post.Snrk.
Post by: ZBridges on May 14, 2016, 06:49:11 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 14, 2016, 08:27:50 pm
Attack NJW2000.4+2 v 3+1 or 2+1
Zbridges wins, deals 4 damage to...Left arm. Left arm is severed!
Attack egan in the upper body, or the head if it is just as easy.
Attack NJW in the lower body, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post, then attack him again before he can post.(attacking body parts is done like this: If you don't say, I roll a d7. Depending on the number it lands on, you hit that part. If you call out a body part, I roll a d4. You have to get equal or higher than a certain number to hit the targeted body part. Chest is 1, stomach is 2, all limbs are 3, head is 4. If you sever a limb, it lowers them all, ie head becomes 3, limbs 2, etc)
NJW
Str. 2 [3]
Vit. 2 [h2, la2, ra2, c6, s4, ll2, rl2]
Dex. 4 [4]
End.1
Rng. 1
Stiletto
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Egan
Str: 8
Dex: -2
End:1
Rng: 2
Pitchfork
Hit Points:
4,4,5+1 v 1+2
NJW wins, deals 3 damage to Egan's gut. Egan is disemboweled. Loses 1 hp from all parts at the end of each turn. Ie, he's gonna die at the end of the next turn.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 14, 2016, 08:31:23 pm
Post by: ZBridges on May 14, 2016, 09:32:33 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 14, 2016, 09:44:00 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 15, 2016, 04:06:00 am
Otherwise, just hit spazyak in the upper body.
Also, why did I hit lower and not upper body? Typo/missread, or part of the system?
Post by: Egan_BW on May 15, 2016, 11:48:49 am
If possible, evasive cartwheel.((Huh, I coulda sworn you aimed for lower body too.))
Otherwise, just hit spazyak in the head.
Also, why did I hit lower and not upper body? Typo/missread, or part of the system?
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 15, 2016, 11:57:02 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 15, 2016, 12:02:26 pm
Quote
(attacking body parts is done like this: If you don't say, I roll a d7. Depending on the number it lands on, you hit that part. If you call out a body part, I roll a d4. You have to get equal or higher than a certain number to hit the targeted body part. Chest is 1, stomach is 2, all limbs are 3, head is 4. If you sever a limb, it lowers them all, ie head becomes 3, limbs 2, etc)
I think I get multiple rolls though... not entirely sure.
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 15, 2016, 12:20:08 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 15, 2016, 12:24:59 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 15, 2016, 07:05:32 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 16, 2016, 09:36:48 am
Please adjust your murder accordingly.
Post by: NJW2000 on May 16, 2016, 09:42:29 am
I would prefer not to have certain characters elevated above others by "birth", even if evey player has the same opportunity. You are all cannon fodder, and the only way to succeed is to be very lucky, and maybe have some stratagy. :PThis brutal enough for you Egan?
Post by: Egan_BW on May 16, 2016, 09:44:32 am
Post by: piecewise on May 18, 2016, 09:30:38 am
Str:3 (6)
Vit:3 (H3,La3,Ra3,C9,S6,Ll3,Rl3)
Dex:2 (-2)
End:1
Rng: +3
Halberd
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zbridges
Str: 2 (4)
Vit: 1 (H1, La1, Ra 1, C3, S2, Ll1, Rl1)
Dex: 4 (2)
Rng: 2
End: 1
Weapon: Longsword (2, 2, -2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NJW
Str. 2 [3]
Vit. 2 [h2, la2, ra2, c6, s4, ll2, rl2]
Dex. 4 [4]
End.1
Rng. 1
Stiletto
Hack at NJW's leg
If possible, evasive cartwheel.3+3 v 2+1, 3+1, 6+1
Otherwise, just hit spazyak in the upper body.
Also, why did I hit lower and not upper body? Typo/missread, or part of the system?
NJW wins. Deals 3 damage to Spaz's upper body. Spaz chest now 6/9
Engage in unspecified melee with NJW.1+2 v 1+1, 6+1
NJW wins, deals 3 damage to zbridges chest. Straight to the heart, zbridges drops dead.
two remain.
Post by: spazyak on May 18, 2016, 10:07:52 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 18, 2016, 12:54:05 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 18, 2016, 10:49:05 pm
Str:3 (6)
Vit:3 (H3,La3,Ra3,C9,S6,Ll3,Rl3)
Dex:2 (-2)
End:1
Rng: +3
Halberd
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NJW
Str. 2 [3]
Vit. 2 [h2, la2, ra2, c6, s4, ll2, rl2]
Dex. 4 [4]
End.1
Rng. 1
Stiletto
Head.
Move back striking at Njw's body2+1, 1+1, 1+1, v 5+3
Spaz wins, deals 6 damage to njw's chest, killing him!
Spaz is ultimate champion man.
Alright, I think thats a pretty good test run of basic functions. Now we just need to add in faith, some special moves, test it out against test enemies, etc.
Here's something I've been thinking about: Level progression. As in, how the world levels progress. I'd like things to be non-linear and interconnected to a degree but I'm curious as to how I should do this. There are a few ways, illustrated here:
(http://i.imgur.com/szlDHix.png)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 18, 2016, 11:45:34 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on May 18, 2016, 11:46:42 pm
Post by: Ozarck on May 19, 2016, 02:45:13 am
Which would be semilinear with multiple endpoints (though the heart of the thing is the final endpoint).
BUt ... it would be semilinear with potential for varied difficultiy in path, depending on how close teams get to the central systems and so forth.
Post by: spazyak on May 19, 2016, 06:23:55 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 19, 2016, 08:03:51 am
However, this is an RPG, so I would go with nebulous. The way I see it, exploration is a thing, you want to have the players stumble onto unexpected things. Plus, I expect that the difficulty of an area won't be related solely to its immune response. There should be variation between the areas. Environmental hazards, crazy residents, hallucinogenic fumes, factories with no OSHA compliance. And on the other hand, there could be more "pleasant" areas. Rotten, diseased or otherwise dead areas. And for a city of evil, magic and weirdness, that could actually mean nice areas, like an inexplicably pleasant diner or merely areas that are just weird and hard to navigate but not that harmful and mostly empty.
Plus, as spazyak said, having newbies suddenly stumbling to the lair of a "sleeping dragon"-equivalent could lead to much fun. Especially when their poorly thought out plan fails and now they have to resort to the Benny Hill music and the Scooby chase scene.
Sorry if I'm not making sense, just trying to quickly voice my thoughts and ideas.
Post by: spazyak on May 19, 2016, 08:15:07 am
Post by: NJW2000 on May 19, 2016, 08:23:00 am
Don't want early game to be boring or lategame too... easy for experienced players.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 19, 2016, 09:25:17 am
Post by: Parisbre56 on May 19, 2016, 11:10:04 am
On the other hand, if you know the direction you need to go for things to get harder, then there's less incentive to explore unless you really feel like exploring or trying to get some loot (and since I think piecewise described the game as less grindy and power-creepy than ER, I think there won't me much point to that). I guess you get to choose the path you take and the game has a potentially quicker end.
Post by: Ozarck on May 19, 2016, 12:40:26 pm
While nebulous seems appropriate, the area that I saw seemed to take a lot of effort, and it would be a shame if PW made a great big level only for the players to go around it because it's too difficult. One way around this I guess would be to make a Dark Souls quest to find a bunch of keys before you can get to The HEART, forcing people to complete hard areas even if they aren't on the way to The HEART. Alternately, optional areas could have dank loot at the end, or just be crafted with lower effort (like a randomly generated labyrinth or something.)Make the great big areas modular, more or less. No need to run around all parts of a Central Park sized area if we can hang out at the hotdog vendors on the side for a while, collecting rattails for crafting while the behemoth tigerrhinos in the lake eat babies and whatnot.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 19, 2016, 01:02:39 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 19, 2016, 01:49:32 pm
I do really like the idea of some random side area turning out to be an infinite random constantly shifting labyrinth.Would be neat
Post by: Dutrius on May 19, 2016, 03:45:24 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 19, 2016, 05:17:16 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 20, 2016, 04:43:16 am
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 09:51:34 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 20, 2016, 09:56:46 am
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 10:03:51 am
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 10:05:54 am
Same set up except this time you have the "Faith" stat and every point in it gives you 5 faith points. Also, you now have 10 points to put into stats instead of 6.
Choose your weapons too, so I can make up some skills for them.
Post by: renegadelobster on May 20, 2016, 10:08:54 am
Edit:
Str: 4 (N/A)
Vit: 3 (H3(+5 armor),La3(+2 armor),Ra3(+2 armor),C9(+2 armor),S6(+2 armor),Ll3(+2 armor),Rl3(+2 armor))
Dex: 4 (N/A)
End: 3 (1 natural armor/9/9 encumbrance)
Faith: 2 (10/10)
Rng: N/A
Weapon: Spiked knuckles
Post by: spazyak on May 20, 2016, 10:11:35 am
Vit:3 uper bod 9, lower bod 6, everything else 3
Dex:2
End:2
Faith:3 15 faith points
Weapon-spear.
Armor-light head and body
Post by: NJW2000 on May 20, 2016, 10:20:36 am
Vit. 2
Dex. 5
End. 1
Faith. 1
Faith seems to balanced across other areas to be ideal for a one-shot build. Which is very much what I'm going for.
Weapon: Short mountain icepick. Want to see if this sort of thing is possible/means anything.
If this makes no sense as a weapon, just go with Khukuri.
Body Health:
chest=6 + 2
lower body=4 + 2
head=2 +2
r leg = 2
l leg = 2
r arm= 2
l arm= 2
Faith: 5
Light Armour Head, Chest, Lower body
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 10:28:25 am
Post by: renegadelobster on May 20, 2016, 10:35:19 am
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 12:19:16 pm
Of course I'm just making that up as I go
Post by: Dutrius on May 20, 2016, 12:52:22 pm
Vit: 3
Dex: 4
End: 3
Faith: 2
Weapon: Glaive-guisarme.
Body:
chest: 11
lower torso: 8
l leg: 5
r leg: 5
l arm: 5
r arm: 5
head: 7
(Light armour on chest, lower torso, left leg, right leg, left arm and right arm. Medium on head. Total weight: 9)
Post by: renegadelobster on May 20, 2016, 01:09:58 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 20, 2016, 02:59:42 pm
Dex:3
Str:6
End:1
Faith:2
Weapon: Painting Guardian Sword (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/painting-guardian-sword)
Body:
Chest: 9 +2 Light Armor
Lower Torso: 6 +2 Light Armor
L Leg: 3
R Leg: 3
L Arm: 3
R Arm: 3
Head: 3 +2 Light Armor
Faith:10
Post by: Ozarck on May 20, 2016, 03:51:09 pm
Every time ...
Well, here is my reserve sheet, then
Name: Stabby Mc Stabberton the hopeful
Vit: 3
Strength: 1
Dex:5
End: 1
Faith:5
Head: 3 (5 w light armor)
Chest: 9 (11 w light armor)
Lower: 6 (8 w light armor)
L Arm: 3
R Arm: 3
L Leg: 3
R Leg: 3
Total weight of armor: 3
Weapon: Dual daggers of Trust and Stabbing
Faith points: 25
Edit: swapped a couple stats. Remind me of the rule for encumbrance. My build is meant to be light, fast, and stealthy. Any other changes suggested to make that happen?
Post by: syvarris on May 20, 2016, 04:04:45 pm
Your stats are incorrect, by the way. Chest should be Vit times three, lower torso should be vit times two everything else should be just equal to vit. Plus one for all, because you have three end. Also, three end lets you have up to nine weight, not three.))
Post by: Ozarck on May 20, 2016, 04:16:20 pm
Wait, is end for carrying cap and stamina? I think I want to switch those anyway.
that will leave me with six weight, but weapons weigh as well, no?
Post by: Egan_BW on May 20, 2016, 04:56:30 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 05:58:23 pm
Weapons don't have weight. As far as I know, if you don't have armor, end is useless until you get the natural armor for having 5.they don't have weight right now, no. In the future they will but for test porpoises, no.
Post by: Ozarck on May 20, 2016, 06:04:58 pm
okay. So to cover one's entire body in light armor, at one weight per, would cost seven weight.Weapons don't have weight. As far as I know, if you don't have armor, end is useless until you get the natural armor for having 5.they don't have weight right now, no. In the future they will but for test porpoises, no.
How does having seven weight affect a 2 endurance stat character? how does having 3 weight affect it?
Post by: piecewise on May 20, 2016, 06:35:47 pm
each point of end counters 3 points of weight. So 2 end with 7 weight would have 1 weight left so -1 to dex. with 2 end you'd have 3 left over, so -0 end.okay. So to cover one's entire body in light armor, at one weight per, would cost seven weight.Weapons don't have weight. As far as I know, if you don't have armor, end is useless until you get the natural armor for having 5.they don't have weight right now, no. In the future they will but for test porpoises, no.
How does having seven weight affect a 2 endurance stat character? how does having 3 weight affect it?
Post by: syvarris on May 20, 2016, 06:57:22 pm
Post by: Ozarck on May 20, 2016, 08:00:09 pm
Post by: Dutrius on May 21, 2016, 07:53:25 am
Post by: piecewise on May 21, 2016, 11:31:05 am
In. Will have a sheet up in a bit. Let's see if I can last longer than one turn this time.Spiked knuckles are, in damage/speed/range,
Edit:
Str: 4 (N/A)
Vit: 3 (H3(+5 armor),La3(+2 armor),Ra3(+2 armor),C9(+2 armor),S6(+2 armor),Ll3(+2 armor),Rl3(+2 armor))
Dex: 4 (N/A)
End: 3 (1 natural armor)
Faith: 2
Rng: N/A
Weapon: Spiked knuckles
1/0/0
Have skill Puncture; cost 2 points of faith, deals double damage to armor if it hits.
Str:5Spear,
Vit:3 uper bod 9, lower bod 6, everything else 3
Dex:2
End:2
Faith:3 15 faith points
Weapon-spear.
Armor-light head and body
2/-3/3. Skill: Thrust. 3 faith points, counts as an attack with 50% more range, rounded up (ie, for you it would be a range of 5)
Str. 4Right now that type of weapon doesn't change much because I don't have damage types in, but it would probably be more meaningful when I do put them in.
Vit. 2
Dex. 5
End. 1
Faith. 1
Weapon: Short mountain icepick. Want to see if this sort of thing is possible/means anything.
Body Health:
chest=6 + 2
lower body=4 + 2
head=2 +2
r leg = 2
l leg = 2
r arm= 2
l arm= 2
Faith: 5
Light Armour Head, Chest, Lower body
2/-1/1 Skill: Hook. 2 faith. Acts as an attack; if successful, reduces enemy's range bonus to 0 for next round.
Vit: 31/-1/1 Skill: Rapid strike. 6 faith. Acts as attack, if you succeed hit a second time on a random body location.
Dex:3
Str:6
End:1
Faith:2
Weapon: Painting Guardian Sword (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/painting-guardian-sword)
Body:
Chest: 9 +2 Light Armor
Lower Torso: 6 +2 Light Armor
L Leg: 3
R Leg: 3
L Arm: 3
R Arm: 3
Head: 3 +2 Light Armor
Faith:10
Str: 33/-3/3 Skill: Hook. 2 faith. Acts as an attack; if successful, reduces enemy's range bonus to 0 for next round.
Vit: 3
Dex: 4
End: 3
Faith: 2
Weapon: Glaive-guisarme.
Body:
chest: 11
lower torso: 8
l leg: 5
r leg: 5
l arm: 5
r arm: 5
head: 7
(Light armour on chest, lower torso, left leg, right leg, left arm and right arm. Medium on head. Total weight: 9)
Alright, now I just gotta set up some enemies. These will be enemies with the same level as you and essentially act like humans in terms of damage and what not. They won't be armored in this case though. let me get some set up...in the mean time, finish and compress those sheets into just the relevant info.
Post by: piecewise on May 21, 2016, 12:20:05 pm
I suggest coordinating to choose who fights who.
Post by: renegadelobster on May 21, 2016, 12:48:12 pm
Vit: 3 (H3(8/8),La3(5/5),Ra3(5/5),C9(11/11),S6(8/8),Ll3(5/5),Rl3(5/5))
Dex: 4 (+4 speed)
End: 3 (1 natural armor/9/9 encumbrance)
Faith: 2 (10/10)
Rng: 0
Weapon: Spiked knuckles
Post by: syvarris on May 21, 2016, 01:40:10 pm
Str:6 (+7 damage)
Vit: 3 (H3(5/5),La3(3/3),Ra3(3/3),C9(11/11),S6(8/8),Ll3(3/3),Rl3(3/3))
Dex: 3 (+2 speed)
End: 1 (3/3 encumbrance)
Faith: 2 (10/10)
Rng: 1
Weapon: Painting Guardian Sword
((I suggest the two people with hook skills take the pikemen. I guess I'll fight a swordsman?))
Post by: Ozarck on May 21, 2016, 02:38:17 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on May 21, 2016, 02:46:03 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 21, 2016, 02:52:19 pm
Vit: 2 => (H2(4/4),La2(2/2),Ra2(2/2),C6(8/8),S4(6/6),Ll2(2/2),Rl2(2/2))
Dex: 5 => 4 speed
End: 1 (3/3 encumbrance)
Faith: 1 (5/5)
Range: 1
Weapon: Mountain Icepick
Post by: renegadelobster on May 21, 2016, 03:05:20 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 21, 2016, 03:08:30 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on May 21, 2016, 03:15:58 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 21, 2016, 04:56:49 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on May 21, 2016, 09:07:54 pm
If they have armor on their head, chest or stomach, use Puncture. Order of importance is head, then chest, then stomach.
Use a point of faith to dodge if need be/possible. If I don't need to use it to dodge, use it to power up my attack if possible.
Post by: syvarris on May 21, 2016, 10:29:03 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 21, 2016, 10:33:48 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on May 22, 2016, 03:34:11 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 22, 2016, 03:38:56 am
Post by: Dutrius on May 23, 2016, 10:36:29 am
Hook the first foe to move towards us.
Post by: piecewise on May 23, 2016, 01:39:47 pm
You're talking about dodging in to get into your range and backing up and stuff but range is just a bonus in this system. You don't move in or out, your range is just a modifier to the roll, it doesn't change. It's determined by your weapon.
And people are talking about using faith to dodge and attack? Faith is your MP, used to do the special moves I gave you with your weapons. It has no other use right now.
And dodging or guarding isn't even an option.
Post by: spazyak on May 23, 2016, 01:47:01 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on May 23, 2016, 03:36:03 pm
Post by: syvarris on May 23, 2016, 04:24:58 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 23, 2016, 09:18:21 pm
Kill Swordsman #1, using six faith to make my attack a double hit if it connects.2+1 v 1+2 or 7+2
Swordsman wins.
Deals 5+2 damage to Sy chest, sy chest armor destroyed, chest hp to 4.
I won't take faith this time, but in the future realize that faith powers that work as attacks are not something you can do on conditionals. You pay the faith and hope it hits or you don't, and it doesn't happen.
Oh. Ah, oops. Go after Pikemen #1. Just.. fuck him up, aiming for his head.9 v 8+4
Pikeman wins, deals 5+2 damage to ren. Aims for head, misses, hits chest. Chest HP to 5/11
Stab attack on brawers go for a gut shot.10+3 vs 6
Spaz wins, deals 5+2 damage to brawler 1's stomach, reducing it to 7/14
((Sorry, I was busy yesterday.))Uh, well we'll go for brawler 1.
Hook the first foe to move towards us.
8 vs 1 not even gonna bother with the range bonus on that.
Dut wins, 6 damage to brawler 1's head, reducing it to 1 hp. Would also remove any range bonus he had...if he had one. Subtract the faith.
Hook pikeman that ren isn't going after. Chest.Pikeman 2 then.
10+1 v 10+4
Pike man wins out, deals 5+2 damage to left leg, cripples.
Brawler 2 attacks dut
9 vs 5+3 or 3+3
Brawler wins, deals 3+1 damage to chest. Reduces it to 7 hp.
Brawler 3 attacks NJW
1 v 10 Yeah, don't think I need to use any bonuses there.
NJW wins, deals 6 damage to head, reducing it to 1 hp.
Swordsman 2 attacks Sy
4+2 v 8+1
Sy wins, deals 7 damage to stomach, disemboweling.
Swordsman 3 attacks Sy
4+2 v 8+1
Sy wins (in exactly the same way)
Deals 7 damage to right arm, severs it.
Everyone who got injured or used faith, adjust your sheet, repost them. otherwise, just repost your sheet with your next action.
Post by: spazyak on May 23, 2016, 09:29:29 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on May 23, 2016, 10:04:30 pm
Str: 4 (+5 damage)
Vit: 3 (H3(8/8),La3(5/5),Ra3(5/5),C9(5/11),S6(8/8),Ll3(5/5),Rl3(5/5))
Dex: 4 (+4 speed)
End: 3 (1 natural armor. 9/9 encumbrance)
Faith: 2 (10/10)
Rng: 0
Weapon: Spiked knuckles
((Is there anyway for us to see what the opponents have for health? Will that be a learned/scouting skill, or do we need to judge/guess based on their description?))
Edit: Changed body part I was targeting
Post by: NJW2000 on May 24, 2016, 03:16:52 am
Vit: 2 => (H2(4/4),La2(2/2),Ra2(2/2),C6(8/8),S4(6/6),Ll2(0/2 Crippled),Rl2(2/2))
Dex: 5 => 4 speed
End: 1 (3/3 encumbrance)
Faith: 1 (3/5)
Range: 1
Weapon: Mountain Icepick
So... pikemen have won every encounter, swordsmen 1/3, brawlers 0/3. Right.
Hook swordsman 1. Lower Body
Post by: piecewise on May 24, 2016, 09:43:13 am
Swordsman
Str 5
Vit 3
Dex 5
End 1
Faith 1
2/-2/2
1:L 3, St 6, Ch 9
2:L 3, St 0, Ch 9 (DEB (-1 from all parts each turn)
3:L 3, St 6, Ch 9
Pikeman
Str:5
Vit:1
Dex:7
End:1
Faith: 1
2/-3/4
1:L1, st 2, ch 3
2:L1, st 2, ch 3
brawler
Str:3
Vit:7
Dex:2
end:1
1/0/0
faith:1
1:L7 (head 1), st 7, ch 21
2:L7, st 14, ch 21
3:L7 (head 1), st 14, ch 21
Post by: Dutrius on May 24, 2016, 11:55:00 am
Brawler 2 attacks dut
9 vs 5+3 or 3+3
Brawler wins, deals 3+1 damage to chest. Reduces it to 7 hp.
That wasn't very nice of him!
Attack Brawler 2
Spoiler: char sheet (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on May 24, 2016, 03:45:41 pm
Attack Swordsman #3, aiming for his Left Arm.
Spoiler: Character (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on May 24, 2016, 10:43:27 pm
Mutation is what happens when you run out of faith; it is oro infecting your body. I intend to have a big table of mutations with different tiers depending on the level you get them at (or perhaps just scaling effects? Might be hard to scale certain abilities). Mutation abilities are unique in that they do not require faith to use. However, each use increases your chances of the mutation spreading. The first use of the mutation has a 1/100 chance of causing you to spontaneously develop another mutation. The next use has a 1/50 chance. And so on
1:1/100
2:1/50
3:1/25
4:1/12
5:1/6
6:1/3
7:1/2
8:1/1
This chance resets each time you get a new mutation from any source. However, the chance is universal, so if you use an ability from one mutated part and then another ability from a different part, your chances are down to 1/25.
Each time you gain a mutation, there is a change you will become a demon. Each time you mutate, a d6 is rolled. You have to roll higher than the number of mutations you have, otherwise you transform. Ie, 3 mutations and you're at 50% chance to change.
Note: Severing mutated parts can act to reduce the number of mutations you have, however it doesn't reset the counter.
Ideas regarding magic:
So far I have 3 forms of magic. The first would be abilities from mutations.
The second is disposable items. Single use things that don't drain faith to use. Such as cassettes in a boombox.
The third is brands. Brands are physical markings burned into the flesh of the character. Use of a brand drains hp from the part it's on instead of using Faith.
I'm still working on the form faith based magic will take.
Post by: Corsair on May 25, 2016, 05:17:51 am
-snip-All that sounds pretty sweet, by sitting out a mission repenting or something can we reduce our mutation spread chance?
Post by: Ozarck on May 25, 2016, 06:41:05 am
Post by: renegadelobster on May 25, 2016, 08:03:52 am
Faith could be only offensive/attack/weapon based.
I am interested in what kind of magic brands and disposable items would do. Defensive for brands and healing/restoration for disposables?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on May 25, 2016, 08:05:43 am
Post by: Hapah on May 25, 2016, 09:04:21 pm
I would love a Brand for the character I have in mind.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 25, 2016, 09:10:39 pm
Post by: piecewise on May 26, 2016, 12:37:01 pm
Seems a reasonable request. Though it would probably require spending the skipped mission doing something. Like sitting around in the chapel being cleansed.-snip-All that sounds pretty sweet, by sitting out a mission repenting or something can we reduce our mutation spread chance?
brands sound pretty rough, considering the current limited hp most body parts have.Brands, as I conceive of them, would be something you'd get by doing certain things. Brands that use up tons of HP wouldn't be available till you had the levels to get tons of hp. Well, probably.
I'd say scale whatever abilities make sense, and for ones that dont, maybe you get a reduced mutation chance table for it? Or maybe get an extra "charge" that doesn't increase your mutation chance? Like one use at 1/100 and then two uses at 1/50 chance? Then it follows the normal table.I was actually thinking about that and came to the conclusion that healing via injuring HP is the sort of thing that could prove problematic. Especially if you can heal more than you lose. Tandem infinite healing partners activate!
Faith could be only offensive/attack/weapon based.
I am interested in what kind of magic brands and disposable items would do. Defensive for brands and healing/restoration for disposables?
But healing as a spell ability is a must. Especially since you'll probably never reach a point where you aren't squishy; at least in higher level areas.
Maybe make some Mutations start you with a higher chance of things going wrong? I imagine they're not all created equal.Probably reasonable too.
I would love a Brand for the character I have in mind.
Is it possible to use a brand that uses more HP on a part than you have? For example, you only have 2 HP on your left arm, but you have a powerful brand on that arm that would use 4 HP, which you can use at the cost of instantly crippling that arm.Yes, but it would consume the arm. And you can't heal back an arm thats completely gone.
Although, a missing limb MAY regrow as a corrupted limb when corruption happens.
Post by: Egan_BW on May 26, 2016, 12:44:55 pm
How about a combat brand weapon; negative range bonus because it's hard to use, but if you hit you do damage and cast a spell at the same time.
Post by: syvarris on May 26, 2016, 11:15:32 pm
Oh, and healing brands wouldn't be too bad as long as you lose significantly more HP than you heal. Maybe by a factor of three or so. That would be useful if a tough guy healed a flimsy guy, or if you transferred HP from your uninjured chest to your severely wounded head.
Post by: piecewise on May 27, 2016, 09:12:05 am
...I think END definitely needs to be much stronger in the final game. It already grants less HP per level than VIT, which can't be healed, and presumably costs money. Add brands into it, and VIT doubles as a mana source in addition to health source.Actually the natural armor conferred by END regens after every fight. It's essentially a "toughness" that lets you shrug off hits without injury. But we may have to mess with it. Maybe make it grant 1 point per level or every 2 levels.
Oh, and healing brands wouldn't be too bad as long as you lose significantly more HP than you heal. Maybe by a factor of three or so. That would be useful if a tough guy healed a flimsy guy, or if you transferred HP from your uninjured chest to your severely wounded head.
Post by: renegadelobster on May 27, 2016, 10:21:12 am
Post by: Ozarck on May 27, 2016, 03:13:21 pm
Post by: chaotic skies on May 31, 2016, 05:43:38 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 31, 2016, 07:47:00 pm
Nah, I want a "Jesus" stat that makes me immune to all damage at level 1 and makes me do infinite damage at level 2 :PI'll go get the 2x4's then.
Post by: chaotic skies on May 31, 2016, 10:29:32 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 31, 2016, 10:34:46 pm
Anyone have some railroad stakes? And some holly?Me, I use rail road stakes for metal when I'm forging...
Yes, I have a forge, I'm a weird teen
Post by: chaotic skies on May 31, 2016, 10:36:40 pm
Post by: spazyak on May 31, 2016, 10:47:31 pm
I'm jealous! I've always wanted a forge but I don't have the money and I'm not sure where to buy one...I made one by taking a propane gas grill, cutting the rubber tube that hooks up to the propane and hooking it up to a pipe that splits via a y joint to an air pump and a propane tank. Then I lined the inside with some ceramic tiles. You can then add in charcoal or wood to make it even hotter.
For quelching oil I use some old vegetable oil
For an avil, I use a heavy duty metal clamp that is bolted to the ground with stakes.
I'd recommend buying some hand clamps
Like these
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and heavy duty work gloves made out of leather, wearing only natural fobers like denim, and investing in a cheap leather jacket. Most artificial fibers will melt durring work.
For melting down metals use a ciramic cup and hold it with the clamps.
Keep the clamps somewhat heated by placing them near the grill to stop the metal from "exploding" from coming into contact with a cooler substance and to keep the porceline from cracking.
Sand molds can be made using polymer and sand.
If you want I can post images of some of what I have made.
Quick edit, you can use either porcaline or ceramics, I've just found ceramics to be stronger and hold heat better.
Etch-y-scetches contain aluminum dust which can be used to make the fires even hotter and burned when put into a really hot fire, you can melt iron that way.
Post by: Ozarck on June 01, 2016, 07:49:00 am
Post by: spazyak on June 01, 2016, 08:11:33 am
If you follow sapz' advice, I also heavily recommend that you do this under adult supervision. also, let's take this to the ooc thread.Yahlet's move to ooc thread, and yes have adult super vision. I never do smithing with out someone else around incase something happens.
Post by: Lenglon on September 16, 2016, 10:42:04 pm
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 03:53:01 pm
Dynamically updating rules
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Enx1OmSEbqScDG-DRmvCnPUv8CuEqIMQxzfyU7b1rio/edit
we need 6 people, 3 on each side for the first test. First six people get it. Make ONLY the human starting character for the moment, please. Oh and don't bother with anything but stats, I'm just gonna call you by your forum name.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2016, 03:55:10 pm
46, 48, 23, 40, 58, 29, 41
40, 41, 46, 48, 50
Strength: 46+4=50
Dexterity: 41+9=50
Speed: 40
Intelligence: 48+5=53
Heart: 50+32=82
Humanity: 123
Regen: 13
Spoiler: Egan (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on September 25, 2016, 04:00:30 pm
Do we get to do anything for magics
Post by: Ozarck on September 25, 2016, 04:21:56 pm
40 Str 40
54 dex 41 + 13
40 spd 40
64 int 44 + 20
61 hrt 44 + 17
91 humanity
10 regen
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2016, 04:26:21 pm
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 04:30:22 pm
InYou'll be able to select magics, yes.
Do we get to do anything for magics
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 04:32:57 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2016, 04:56:11 pm
NVM, that's not actually enough to buy a part with what I want to do. rip
Post by: syvarris on September 25, 2016, 06:01:12 pm
Spoiler: Sure (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on September 25, 2016, 06:05:37 pm
Spoiler: In! (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 06:21:03 pm
1.No Conqueror's sign
2. No duplicate parts or spells
So far as players we got gentle, Sy, Egan and OZ, with spaz as a maybe until he submits his sheet.
We're starting at level 1 here so you only have human slots. So we have
Main body
1.Head
2.Chest
3.Gut
Right arm
1.upper
2.lower
3.hand
Left arm
1.upper
2.lower
3.hand
Right leg
1.Upper
2.Lower
3.Foot
Left leg
1.Upper
2.Lower
3.Foot
You can add parts beyond that, but remember the rules about cost and limb construction.
KEEP EACH OTHER HONEST AND ASK ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS!
Post by: Egan_BW on September 25, 2016, 06:33:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bit sad about the no Conqueror's sign part, that would be... entertaining combined with Incinerate. :D
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 06:46:46 pm
I changed my int and heart balance a bit to give me room for a part.Yeah, but that part is just too rare to use here reasonably.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bit sad about the no Conqueror's sign part, that would be... entertaining combined with Incinerate. :D
Post by: Whisperling on September 25, 2016, 06:48:57 pm
Spoiler: In (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on September 25, 2016, 06:50:32 pm
Will demon parts that're severed stop reducing your humanity cap? If so, that would be rather powerful along with infest.
Do limbs need to use all parts? Meaning there's no mixing and matching hands and legs?
...Can we have two "Wing of Light" parts, despite the "no repeat parts" rule? Otherwise, we can't fly.
Would a grapple attack from a person capable of flight count as a melee hit, therefore suffering the debilitating penalty?
Is that penalty removable by just not flying that turn?
Post by: renegadelobster on September 25, 2016, 07:08:05 pm
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
How's this look?
Post by: Gentlefish on September 25, 2016, 07:10:02 pm
DEX: 50
SPD: 60
INT: 40 (Current: 36)
HRT: 50
HUMANITY: 75 (Current: 56)
RECHARGE: 6
Spoiler: limbs (click to show/hide)
I am assuming Smouldering affects the whole and I can apply it to a punch.
Post by: Ozarck on September 25, 2016, 07:21:17 pm
@syv:
Quote
Demonic powers tend to use Strength and Dex for their rolls, while magic always uses Intelligence.I assume this means each cast is an int roll, regardless of the spell.
@renegade, you start out with quite an advantage with those high stats. I'm on your team
I think I'll be editing my stat distribution a bit too, in order to make better use of the spells and parts. I'll be editing this post in a bit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 08:12:26 pm
Is Writhe of Flesh dodgable, or resistable at all? The description doesn't mention a roll.Writhe requires you to do an int roll vs dex of opponent because it acts like a ranged weapon. Unless the spell specifically says it doesn't require a roll, assume it does.
Will demon parts that're severed stop reducing your humanity cap? If so, that would be rather powerful along with infest.
Do limbs need to use all parts? Meaning there's no mixing and matching hands and legs?
...Can we have two "Wing of Light" parts, despite the "no repeat parts" rule? Otherwise, we can't fly.
Would a grapple attack from a person capable of flight count as a melee hit, therefore suffering the debilitating penalty?
Is that penalty removable by just not flying that turn?
Not sure what you mean? Limbs, like the clockwork limb, can be taken whole or as parts, but the cost applies to all of them (for the test, it won't in the final game).
Sure, we'll let that one pass.
Yes. But if you grapple someone you can't fly. Well, maybe you can, but it would require a very high strength roll.
If you land for a turn and grab them, sure.
@Whisperling, your humanity regen should be 10 it's 1/10th your max humanity, rounded up, not 1/10th your heartI think every spell uses Int somewhere in them (Even if not as a roll) but they may also require extra rolls. Like Piston. It doesn't have an int roll, but the damage is reliant on int score.
@syv:QuoteDemonic powers tend to use Strength and Dex for their rolls, while magic always uses Intelligence.I assume this means each cast is an int roll, regardless of the spell.
@renegade, you start out with quite an advantage with those high stats. I'm on your team
I think I'll be editing my stat distribution a bit too, in order to make better use of the spells and parts. I'll be editing this post in a bit.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on September 25, 2016, 08:24:56 pm
EDIT: ...Oops, added proper parts list.
Spoiler: In (click to show/hide)
Post by: Corsair on September 25, 2016, 08:26:34 pm
Strength: 37 : 37
Dexterity: 45 + 6 : 51
Speed: 47 + 3 : 50
Intelligence: 49 +41 : 90 (80)
Heart: 40 : 40
Max Humanity: 4 x 15 = 60 Regen 6
Parts: Human All
Spells:
Rebuke of Flame: Inhabiting gut,torso,head
Smelt: Inhabiting right hand, right arm
Post by: syvarris on September 25, 2016, 08:32:19 pm
Not sure what you mean? Limbs, like the clockwork limb, can be taken whole or as parts, but the cost applies to all of them (for the test, it won't in the final game).
Does this mean the cost applies per part, or just if you use any part? I.E. if I replace an arm with a hulking arm, does that cost 15 humanity, or 45 humanity?
Post by: piecewise on September 25, 2016, 08:52:41 pm
45Not sure what you mean? Limbs, like the clockwork limb, can be taken whole or as parts, but the cost applies to all of them (for the test, it won't in the final game).
Does this mean the cost applies per part, or just if you use any part? I.E. if I replace an arm with a hulking arm, does that cost 15 humanity, or 45 humanity?
Edited parts and some stat changes into my sheet. And fixed the regen.Tricloptic head has an [end] tag. It can only go at the end of limbs if you want it to be functional. Try putting it as a hand or something. Or head. Or gut.
EDIT: ...Oops, added proper parts list.Spoiler: In (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on September 25, 2016, 09:05:57 pm
Spoiler: Sheet, then (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on September 26, 2016, 12:40:12 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2016, 02:29:19 am
Post by: piecewise on September 26, 2016, 09:07:42 am
I changed my int and heart balance a bit to give me room for a part.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bit sad about the no Conqueror's sign part, that would be... entertaining combined with Incinerate. :D
If I can reuse the stats I rolled earlier, INSpoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
How's this look?
In order for smoldering flesh to give you flaming punches, you'd need to have it adjacent to the functional part (ie the hand) and say it is slaved to it.
STR: 81
DEX: 50
SPD: 60
INT: 40 (Current: 36)
HRT: 50
HUMANITY: 75 (Current: 56)
RECHARGE: 6Spoiler: limbs (click to show/hide)
I am assuming Smouldering affects the whole and I can apply it to a punch.
@Whisperling, your humanity regen should be 10 it's 1/10th your max humanity, rounded up, not 1/10th your heart
@syv:QuoteDemonic powers tend to use Strength and Dex for their rolls, while magic always uses Intelligence.I assume this means each cast is an int roll, regardless of the spell.
@renegade, you start out with quite an advantage with those high stats. I'm on your team
I think I'll be editing my stat distribution a bit too, in order to make better use of the spells and parts. I'll be editing this post in a bit.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sheet, then (click to show/hide)
Whisperling still needs to fix the tricloptic head position, and gentlefish, though functional, probably needs to fix the smoldering flesh position to make it actually work how he wants it to.
I've clarified in the rules that slaved parts are parts that are adjacent to other functional parts.
Post by: Whisperling on September 26, 2016, 10:10:51 am
Spoiler: In (click to show/hide)
On a side note, it occurs to me that getting human parts severed will lower your humanity cap and regen, even if you're otherwise completely normal. No stranger than being able to survive without a heart, I guess, but you'd generally think of quadriplegics as helpless, not corrupted.
Post by: syvarris on September 26, 2016, 01:55:16 pm
Spoiler: You wanted us to check each other, right? (click to show/hide)
Also notable, our beginning stat averages, exempting stat bonuses and penalties:
Egan:55
Ren:67.8
Fish:56.2
Oz:51.8
syv:50
Whisp:51.6
Suggested team composition is Ren, Whisp and I (169.4 points) vs Egan, Oz, and Fish (163 points) because this minimizes the point difference between teams, which is still notably sized because Renegade is a
Post by: spazyak on September 26, 2016, 02:19:12 pm
Str:70 (42+28=70)
Dex:41
Int:35
Speed:54 (47+7=54)
Heart:50 (35+15=50)
Max humanity: 75
Regen:7.5 (8 when rounded
Post by: renegadelobster on September 26, 2016, 03:14:46 pm
Post by: spazyak on September 26, 2016, 03:28:37 pm
Post by: syvarris on September 26, 2016, 04:24:38 pm
Humanity max is equal to heart, divided by ten, and then multiplied by the number of human parts you possess in the correct positions. Then this new humanity max has the costs of every demon part you have subtracted from it. Remember, every demon part you add is replacing a human part, so it reduces humanity max in two ways.
Also, you aren't allowed to take any duplicate parts (aside from wings of light), multi-part limbs have their humanity cost applied for EACH part (an entire hulking arm costs {45}), and you can't take the "Conquer's Sign" part.
Finally, I think PW only wants six people for the test. Maybe he'd let you and Corsair join?
Post by: spazyak on September 26, 2016, 06:46:10 pm
You can take as many demon parts as you want. However, if you take so many that your humanity max is reduced to zero or below, you automatically die upon spawn.Well, posted earlier I'd post my character sheet when I had time. Eh oh well, guess it'll give me time to read up on the rules and plan
Humanity max is equal to heart, divided by ten, and then multiplied by the number of human parts you possess in the correct positions. Then this new humanity max has the costs of every demon part you have subtracted from it. Remember, every demon part you add is replacing a human part, so it reduces humanity max in two ways.
Also, you aren't allowed to take any duplicate parts (aside from wings of light), multi-part limbs have their humanity cost applied for EACH part (an entire hulking arm costs {45}), and you can't take the "Conquer's Sign" part.
Finally, I think PW only wants six people for the test. Maybe he'd let you and Corsair join?
Post by: piecewise on September 26, 2016, 07:17:28 pm
I generally just go with whoever has a completed sheet first, because I've had some bad experiences with people calling spots and then never showing up again. In any case, save your sheet and we'll use it for the next test.You can take as many demon parts as you want. However, if you take so many that your humanity max is reduced to zero or below, you automatically die upon spawn.Well, posted earlier I'd post my character sheet when I had time. Eh oh well, guess it'll give me time to read up on the rules and plan
Humanity max is equal to heart, divided by ten, and then multiplied by the number of human parts you possess in the correct positions. Then this new humanity max has the costs of every demon part you have subtracted from it. Remember, every demon part you add is replacing a human part, so it reduces humanity max in two ways.
Also, you aren't allowed to take any duplicate parts (aside from wings of light), multi-part limbs have their humanity cost applied for EACH part (an entire hulking arm costs {45}), and you can't take the "Conquer's Sign" part.
Finally, I think PW only wants six people for the test. Maybe he'd let you and Corsair join?
Ok, I think thats everyone.
NOW, YOU 6, REPOST YOUR SHEET ALONG WITH THE TEAM YOU WANNA BE ON (Red or Blue). Last chance to fiddle with stats and stuff. the final post is...well...final.
Post by: Ozarck on September 26, 2016, 07:22:38 pm
Spoiler: Team Red (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on September 26, 2016, 07:32:24 pm
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on September 26, 2016, 07:43:23 pm
Spoiler: updated, team red (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on September 26, 2016, 07:47:15 pm
pm your cores instead.
Post by: syvarris on September 26, 2016, 07:50:31 pm
Spoiler: Red, With Ozymandias (click to show/hide)
Fish, you should specify your team. I suggest Red.
Post by: Gentlefish on September 26, 2016, 08:57:53 pm
Spoiler: Red, With Ozymandias (click to show/hide)
Fish, you should specify your team. I suggest Red.
Done and also done.
Post by: renegadelobster on September 26, 2016, 09:49:47 pm
Spoiler: Blue it is then (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on September 26, 2016, 11:13:29 pm
Oz has a robot arm and a doll head for a foot, along with a bunch of strange wriggling green runes over his left arm and a small floating crown of sickly green light with a single spike on it.
Whisperling has a normal human head but it's bobbing around atop a gelatinous cube of bubbling blue goo and there's a three eyed oni head where his guts should be. Also has what looks like an ornate glass jar full of twinkling golden lights for a shoulder.
Gentlefish has a huge metal Bear Trap for a head, and a strange arm made of smoldering, half ashen flesh and an ornately etched golden hand.
Sy has himself a metal 3 foot metal spike for a head, a partial clockwork arm, and some bizarre combo of a doll upper leg which leads into about a dozen snake bodies that all then connect to a single human foot.
And of course Ren, He has a giant black-blue, internally glowing, revolver with a barrel about a foot and a half long where his right hand should be. Very Megaman. A chest made out of a giant wasp nest, not so megaman, and burning red runes over part of his left arm. His fingers, the ones he has left, are glowing red like embers and he's got a floating ethereal red crown with a single spike in it.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 26, 2016, 11:16:11 pm
Post by: Corsair on September 27, 2016, 02:30:59 am
Post by: piecewise on September 27, 2016, 08:38:37 am
Actually if you post a sheet before egan, you get his spot.Can I take the spot?Darn someone already has it seems.
Post by: Corsair on September 27, 2016, 06:07:17 pm
Just remembered that I am camping right when this is going to be starting :-\
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 27, 2016, 08:20:48 pm
Spoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on September 27, 2016, 08:55:27 pm
49*1.5 = 73.5.
74 - 14 (for the chainsaw and blood sphere) = 60.
regen would then be 6
are you subtracting the humanity for the special effects of the weapons?
those come out of your current humanity pool, at the time of the attack.
so: you have 60 max and 60 current humanity.
Eg.,You do a normal chainsaw attack for 10 damage.
next round, you fire your blood thingy, and lose 10 from current humanity, bringing it to 50.
next round, you gain 6, and use your chainsaw's special, losing 10, bringing it to 46 ...
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 27, 2016, 08:59:53 pm
Post by: syvarris on September 27, 2016, 09:32:22 pm
Yeah, checking your own sheet you made the same mistake. You should have 73/10*11-26=55 humanity max. You have 83 listed.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 28, 2016, 12:47:17 am
Post by: piecewise on September 28, 2016, 09:28:03 am
Spoiler: Team Red (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: updated, team red (click to show/hide)
TEAM BLUESpoiler: Red, With Ozymandias (click to show/hide)
Fish, you should specify your team. I suggest Red.
I'm inSpoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue it is then (click to show/hide)
Added the +5 heart for the vessel of souls, just assuming that goes into the base stat.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Alright, I'm gonna assume Oz will fix his regen/humanity error here before his first turn. I've gotten core locations from 4 people, those who haven't sent them are gonna have their core in the generic starting location as specified in the rules.
Now then, where's an urban environment you'd like to fight in? First suggestion gets it.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 28, 2016, 09:38:37 am
Post by: piecewise on September 28, 2016, 10:59:36 am
A factoryDone.
Let me get something set up here...
Post by: Ozarck on September 28, 2016, 05:25:50 pm
Eh? Oz, it's 49 / 10 * number of human parts. He replaced two parts, so he has a max of 64 - 14 for the parts = 50, with 5 regen. Humanity max is determined by both your heart and number of human parts.bah. I guess I forgot about that rule. Or somehow misunderstood, due to the way we were going about things. Welp, I guess I'm locked in then. Had I mremembered, I'd probably have gone with more magic over swapped parts, and rearranged my free stat points to compensate for the int drop instead. Ah well.
Yeah, checking your own sheet you made the same mistake. You should have 73/10*11-26=55 humanity max. You have 83 listed.
Spoiler: Team Red: edited max humanity (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on September 28, 2016, 05:50:06 pm
So here's our factory map. As soon as oz ready, I'll throw your positions in there and we can murder.
Post by: Ozarck on September 28, 2016, 06:12:02 pm
Post by: Whisperling on September 28, 2016, 07:01:45 pm
Post by: syvarris on September 28, 2016, 07:11:42 pm
Oh, and Oz, remember that we can only have one of each part. So no triple upper clockwork arm. Upper clockwork arm, oni torso, golden hand/lower clockwork arm would work though.
Post by: piecewise on September 28, 2016, 09:19:48 pm
So... what exactly are the attack ranges and such we should keep in mind? And move speeds, for that matter.Eh, there's no hard ranges. It's a subjective thing because it's not like I can say "at 150 feet your difficulty roll is 145" or something. Varies by weapon type and stuff.
Assume you can run about as fast as a human, that melee range is about 10 feet or so (because we assume you can cross 10 feet basically instantly) and that ranges...are quite vague but shooting things far away is harder.
Here's out arena(http://i.imgur.com/L9Bezim.png)
Red team, who is all standing around in a clump, you find yourselves in an almost pitch black room, the only light- a smoldering red glow- coming from a square doorway straight ahead. In this dull sanguine light you can make out heaping piles of rusty scrap metal all around you. Some of it is structural- I-beams, square plates, rebar in random lengths- but the vast majority of it is just horribly shredded, rusty metal shrapnel. The kind of stuff that could split your flesh to the bone and give you tetanus from a distance. The metal is moving as well, clumping up into rust-bunny piles and rolling across the ground with an unpleasant clink-clank-screech. It's piling itself onto a conveyor belt that leads on into the room straight ahead.
Blue team, who is all in a clump as well, you are standing on the outskirts of an assembly line. The room is a long one lit by scattered and irregularly spaced halogen bulbs. A conveyor belt runs down the center of it, flanked on either side by robotic limbs. These limbs are all moving at once in a dizzying display of coordinated action, building and attaching, manipulating the things on the belt. These things, whatever they are, are all different from one another. They look like mechanical things, like cars maybe, but deformed, the mechanisms crushed into strange shapes. Looking at them, they don't look like they'd actually do anything if turned on, but something about their shape is unsettlingly organic, despite the mechanical construction. Parts and pieces for the robotic arms are being shoved out of slots high on the walls, near the ceiling, and collecting in chaotic piles near the base of the limbs. The only visible way in and out of this room is the conveyor belt itself, there don't seem to be any other doors.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 28, 2016, 09:52:03 pm
Pull a mario and start running along the conveyor belt in the direction of the hated red team.
Post by: syvarris on September 28, 2016, 11:15:06 pm
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[ENRAGED VIBRATIONS]"
Forward, unto the breach! If any blue evildoers are spotted, grab them and force them into the ground!
Post by: renegadelobster on September 28, 2016, 11:23:14 pm
Spoiler: Stuff (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on September 28, 2016, 11:49:20 pm
Spoiler: Updated, Team Red (click to show/hide)
Follow the smarter guys
Post by: Ozarck on September 29, 2016, 04:39:12 pm
advance while avoiding the rust bunnies and shrapnel. try to remain within support range of my red brothers, and on the alert for our blue opponents.
Spoiler: Team Red: edited max humanity (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on September 29, 2016, 05:24:52 pm
Post by: Whisperling on September 29, 2016, 06:08:55 pm
If no screams of pain or sickening thuds result from Jaguar's stunt, ride out with the other two. Otherwise... try frying the conveyer mechanism with my tricloptic head, maybe?
Post by: piecewise on September 29, 2016, 11:36:18 pm
Team This Color
advance while avoiding the rust bunnies and shrapnel. try to remain within support range of my red brothers, and on the alert for our blue opponents.Spoiler: Team Red: edited max humanity (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated, Team Red (click to show/hide)
Follow the smarter guys
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[ENRAGED VIBRATIONS]"
Forward, unto the breach! If any blue evildoers are spotted, grab them and force them into the ground!
(I don't have image editing software on here so the map is remaining unedited for now)
Red team, you guys advance into the next room. There are three furnaces off to the north side of the room, massive black metal things with gaping mouths and tongues of flame. The rusty balls of metal roll off the conveyor belt and over into the waiting furnaces. There are big pipes running between the furnaces and finally out through an opening in the wall to the east. You can see, through the doorway just south of where the pipes are headed, another room. It looks like where the pipes end, pouring into huge metal cylinders that spit metallic skeletons out the other side.
At the last moment in the turn, two Blue team members come flopping out of a hole in the south wall of the adjacent room, apparently running and jumping off the conveyor belt.
((...Oops. Sorry PW.))
If no screams of pain or sickening thuds result from Jaguar's stunt, ride out with the other two. Otherwise... try frying the conveyer mechanism with my tricloptic head, maybe?
Blue TeamSpoiler: Stuff (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
((Alright well, I might have doomed everyone by suggesting an environment with a large amount of environmental hazards. Aw well, let's get this party started.))
Pull a mario and start running along the conveyor belt in the direction of the hated red team.
Yo, blue team, repost your character sheets with your actions please.
Blue team walks as far as they can beside the conveyor belt until they have to jump onto it and run against it to make it into the northern room. Midnight and Renegade both manage to run against the movement of the belt and throw themselves into the next room, but whisperling can't keep up. Instead he ends up falling back into the room he started in, landing flat on his back next to the belt.
Mid and Ren pick themselves up and see the red team in an adjacent room to the north west.
Post by: renegadelobster on September 30, 2016, 12:14:17 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on September 30, 2016, 11:45:28 am
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[BLOODTHIRSTY VIBRATIONS]"
GRAB THAT GUY'S CHAINSAW
Post by: MidnightJaguar on September 30, 2016, 12:10:58 pm
Spoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on September 30, 2016, 12:28:00 pm
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on September 30, 2016, 06:30:40 pm
Activate writhe of flesh on renegade. (if targeting a limb is automatic, target his trunk.)
Spoiler: Team Red: edited max humanity (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Uh, fuck? (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on October 01, 2016, 03:55:33 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Updated shall Piston-punch Chainsaw right in his Lower Left Arm.
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2016, 11:18:29 am
So first I'm comparing your Speeds to see who goes first. This will be the turn order basically from now on unless someone loses core speed somehow.
Ren:60
Gentle 60
Midjag 40
Oz 40
Sy 38
Whisper: 35
In the case of ties, I flipped a coin for who went first.
So Ren goes first.
Blue TeamSo I missed this thing about using the hive first round because it was hidden in a spoiler for some reason. I'm gonna let him spend his humanity on it and not do any rolls for it because he was "supposed" to have created it outside of combat the previous round. Next time Ren, actually post it as an action. Or PM me with it if you really wanna be secretive.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
So he paid 36 humanity, bringing his total humanity down to 28, as he has listed. It produces a bug swarm with 36 HP and 18 melee damage and stat bonus.
Now, he wants this swarm and his attack directed at "the nearest Red Bastard". Well, they're all in a clump across the room, so I'm just gonna pick one at random. The dice chose Gentlefish. And of his parts it chose 15 and 12 as the targets. Which are his feet.
The swarm moves over to the red group and then rolls 91 for its attack. Gentle rolls 64+50 and dodges the blow.
Next is the Oversized demonic Revolver, The use of which reduces Ren's Humanity to 20 (as he noted already). Now, I'd say the reds are at medium distance, so he needs to roll greater than 120 as well as higher than Gentle to hit. He rolls 72+93 for 165. Impressive. Gentle rolls 50+87, also pretty good, but not good enough. It deals 40 damage, which destroys his left foot and reduces his left lower leg to 5 HP.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Updated shall Piston-punch Chainsaw right in his Lower Left Arm.
Gentle is next and is probably very annoyed about having his left leg blown apart. That lowers your humanity regen too, remember, because you now have 1 less human part.
He runs over to Midjag and then does his aimed piston punch towards Mid's lower left arm. And aimed shots have a -30 penalty. So he rolls 81+8 -30. Ouch. Very bad luck there. Mid rolls 64+100 (!) and dodges with no effort. So piston backfires, dealing d100+36 damage to his limb. The roll for it is 93+36. Jeez. 129 damage. Lets trace it up, starting with the golden hand. The golden hand as well as the Smoldering Flesh both detonate from the recoil of the missed spell, and the upper arm is reduced to 31 hp. It's been a bad day for Gentle. Silver lining, when his arm is destroyed the spell is lost and his ethereal red crown vanishes, as well as the Int malus he has from the spell inhabiting him.
Next is midjag
So he's charging across the room to meet up with Sy, the vibrating rod of anger. And he's activating his chainsaw for 10 humanity to boost his attack. He rolls 64+73 for 137, Sy rolls 76+81 for 157, dodging the attack.Welcome Mr. spiky head into my chainsawing embrace. But first activate it with humanity.Spoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
Team This Color
Activate writhe of flesh on renegade. (if targeting a limb is automatic, target his trunk.)Spoiler: Team Red: edited max humanity (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Uh, fuck? (click to show/hide)
So Oz dashes over to ren. I'm gonna assume he uses his clockwork arm for the touch required to activate writhe of Flesh, even though he didn't say so. So that's a drain of 50 humanity. The attack is 62+70= 132 against 72+92 = 164. So that's a miss, but writhe has no backlash, so nothing happens to OZ other than his wasting of humanity.
Now Sy
Ah, Sy is going grabby and trying to grapple a chainsaw. Now, he has a few grasping parts, but I'm gonna assume he uses his right leg, because it gives him the greatest bonus for this roll (Because +25 dex is better than +10 str). So Sy rolls Str 66+17, and Mid rolls 64+25. Which means Midjag jerks his arm out of the grab attempt.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[BLOODTHIRSTY VIBRATIONS]"
GRAB THAT GUY'S CHAINSAW
And finally, whisper.
Keep trying. If I succeed, tricloptic-head blast Syv. His chest, if I can aim for a specific part.His first action is to attempt to get through the hole again.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
85+35=120, so he makes it through. We're gonna call that a movement not an action, so he gets his ranged attack on sy without having to do a speed roll.
Now, Sy is still across the room, since he didn't move in order to try his grab (his target moved to him), so Whisper is gonna have to beat 120 to be able to hit. He rolls 48+34 so he misses without Sy even having to roll. He loses the 15 humanity it costs to fire the blast though.
So to summarize:
Ren summons a swarm of flesh eating demonic insects and sics them on Gentle. Gentle dodging the swarm but catches an fist sized demonic bullet in the left leg. The round blows his entire foot off and pulps the lower leg before flying of and ricocheting off one of the huge furnaces. Gentle charges Ren and the runes floating above his golden hand glow like red hot iron and steam pours out of his arm. He takes a swing at Ren, but misses, and the runes flash brilliant white as he punches empty air. An instant later his arm detonates with a sound like metal striking metal and a burst of steam. Oz runs in next, his fingers glowing green and releasing a horrible black miasma. He tries to touch Ren, but Ren dodges him as well.
Midjag charges sy and tries to chainsaw him right in the metal face. Sy dodges and grabs at the chainsaw, but Midjag yanks it back, out of the grip of Sy's strange, serpentine leg.
Whisperling manages to hurl himself through the hole in the wall and immediately fires a firey purple blast from the demonic head in his crotch directly at Sy. The blast whizzes over sy's head and hits the ceiling, carving a glowing gash in the concrete.
Everyone please make sure to update your sheets to reflect the events of the turn.
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2016, 11:20:01 am
Post by: syvarris on October 01, 2016, 12:38:47 pm
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[FRUSTRATED VIBRATIONS]"
TRY TO GRAB THAT GUY'S CHAINSAW AGAIN. WITH MY RIGHT ARM. OH YEAH, ALSO DELAY MY ACTION UNTIL AFTER WHISPERLING. AND DODGE ANY INCOMING ATTACKS WITH MY RIGHT LEG, BECAUSE APPARENTLY THAT NEEDS TO BE SPECIFIED.
((I suppose this is kinda my fault, but I meant to grab with my clockwork arm--that's why I have my grab bonus listed as +76--and then dodge with the leg. You didn't add my leg's dodge bonus last turn, though I'm guessing that's because you thought I was trying to grab with it.
As a side note, your inconsistent ordering of bonuses and rolls is kinda confusing. Maybe you could put [brackets] around the roll, leaving bonuses unmarked?))
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2016, 12:56:28 pm
If you want to make sure I use the right limb to do the right thing, tell me the limbs to use. Otherwise I just kinda glance at your body and choose a limb that looks alright.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[FRUSTRATED VIBRATIONS]"
TRY TO GRAB THAT GUY'S CHAINSAW AGAIN
((I suppose this is kinda my fault, but I meant to grab with my clockwork arm--that's why I have my grab bonus listed as +76--and then dodge with the leg. You didn't add my leg's dodge bonus last turn, though I'm guessing that's because you thought I was trying to grab with it.
As a side note, your inconsistent ordering of bonuses and rolls is kinda confusing. Maybe you could put [brackets] around the roll, leaving bonuses unmarked?))
And yeah, I'll do Bonus + [Roll]
Post by: Ozarck on October 01, 2016, 01:23:43 pm
Quote
Writhe of Flesh
Flesh Inhabitance: 3
Intelligence Consumption: 10
Humanity Cost: 50
Range: Sight
Writhe of Flesh requires no touch! it's int based, and line of sight. Still not enough for a hit - of course. this is why I had intended to swap out writhe for pneumatic strength. curse my distraction.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on October 01, 2016, 01:33:55 pm
Spoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: renegadelobster on October 01, 2016, 01:54:26 pm
Have the swarm go after Gentle. Dodge and stay alive.
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
((Meh. No more spoilers, I'll make it easier on ya PW))
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2016, 03:17:16 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 01, 2016, 03:38:32 pm
clobber jag wiht cyber arm.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: MidnightJaguar on October 01, 2016, 04:30:54 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 01, 2016, 04:46:00 pm
Wait, PW shouldn't gentle be next to me? Since he took a swing at me with his piston arm?Oh yeah, thats right. He has the chain saw not Ren. Then I suppose Red is all still where they started.
Post by: Ozarck on October 01, 2016, 05:50:48 pm
Post by: Whisperling on October 02, 2016, 09:18:47 am
Wait for Gentle to die. If he does, run over so that I have a better shot at Sy's chest, then tricloptic-head it. If he doesn't, blast Gentle's instead.
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 02, 2016, 10:39:58 am
PW, why don't you roll for initiative, with spd as the base? Since every other stat based effect involves a roll, except humanity.I suppose I can, though thats 6 more rolls each turn.
((Pretty sure I have more than a +34 bonus to more or less everything. Actually, shouldn't it use int, which is a lot higher? Assuming there isn't some quirk of the head that I missed, anyway.))You're right. And at 85 int it passed the requirement to hit, assuming you're not aiming at a specific part. Lets roll sy's dodge. 76+[94]
Wait for Gentle to die. If he does, run over so that I have a slightly better shot at Sy's chest, then tricloptic-head it. If he doesn't, blast Gentle's instead.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
So he still manages to avoid the hit. So far my screw ups are at least not having to be retconned.
Waiting on gentle. Remember, if you want to use the bonus from a limb, you have to say you're using it, unless you're inherently using that limb to attack. Like punching a guy, you'd use the bonus of the punching arm automatically.
Post by: Ozarck on October 02, 2016, 01:09:30 pm
The system feels unwieldly to me. Seems like we are doing a lot of 'stat chasing', tryingto figure out what does what, what each action affects, how damage changes several factors.
And a lot of our abilities are "fire and wait" types, which is why I intended originally to keep my humanity as high as possible. And it feels like ren, starting with stats an average of 13 points above the rest, has a pretty good advantage, making him the defacto 'thing to beat'.
Of course, my own mistakes in character building lend to my frustration, but I at least know how i would make two completely different characters out of the same stat set.
Post by: piecewise on October 02, 2016, 04:18:25 pm
I know it's still very early, but ...I feel like a lot of the "stat chasing" is a result of us being unsure of the system.
The system feels unwieldly to me. Seems like we are doing a lot of 'stat chasing', tryingto figure out what does what, what each action affects, how damage changes several factors.
And a lot of our abilities are "fire and wait" types, which is why I intended originally to keep my humanity as high as possible. And it feels like ren, starting with stats an average of 13 points above the rest, has a pretty good advantage, making him the defacto 'thing to beat'.
Of course, my own mistakes in character building lend to my frustration, but I at least know how i would make two completely different characters out of the same stat set.
However, if it feels unweildy after this first incarnation, what I'll do is scale back the construction as aspect so that we have more defined and permanent body forms, because that will eliminate a lot of mechanical things that exist just to reign in uncontrollable expansion.
Post by: piecewise on October 02, 2016, 04:59:03 pm
Basically, it would involve having the body plans locked to certain forms. It would be a lot more like that game "Rengoku", where you are stuck in a humanoid form (for the most part) but your individual bits are all interchangable. There would be some unique ones, like the naga tails, but for the most part they'd fall in the human body plan. That would basically get rid of a lot of the more complex parts of body building, allow for simplified humanity rules (since it doesn't have to act as a part restrainer) and make balancing easier.
The downside of course being that you'd be stuck in fairly standard body forms and unable to become horrible centipedes made of chainsaws.
Post by: syvarris on October 02, 2016, 10:31:32 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 02, 2016, 10:40:37 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 02, 2016, 10:43:21 pm
I, personally, would prefer to play an unwieldy game that allows for creativity, rather than a smooth game which stifles it. I imagine a lot of people here would agree with me, what with said game being hosted on the Dwarf Fortress forums.We'll see how it goes as we keep playing. We may end up with something in the middle
Post by: syvarris on October 02, 2016, 11:43:53 pm
You mean it's hosted on the Bay 12 forums. Toady has made more than just one game, and some of them are simple and elegant. :P
Number of posts in the "Dwarf Fortress" section of this forum:
838,320
Number of posts in the "Curses" and "Armok" boards of this forum:
20,944
Number of posts in the "Finally" section and the "Other Games" board:
2,372,092
Okay, fine, Bay 12 isn't really the Dwarf Fortress forums, but not for the reason you're citing. I'd still argue that a disproportionate number of people here like complex games, even if that population probably doesn't really overlap significantly with the RTD population.
Post by: Hapah on October 02, 2016, 11:45:02 pm
I, personally, would prefer to play an unwieldy game that allows for creativity, rather than a smooth game which stifles it. I imagine a lot of people here would agree with me, what with said game being hosted on the Dwarf Fortress forums.For my part, I disagree.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 02, 2016, 11:49:08 pm
...You can do that in oro, right?
Post by: Whisperling on October 03, 2016, 12:11:54 am
Maybe we could have certain bits that allow you to deviate from body shape as part of their abilities, though? Like, maybe a centipede torso that allows you to attach any number of arms (at full humanity cost).
Also, it would be nice to keep slaving. Maybe restrict it to the smaller bits, though. Keep it to the fire gems and such rather than saying you can attach a hulk torso beneath the frost arm for some weird effect.
Post by: piecewise on October 03, 2016, 10:01:28 am
On one hand, creativity is really nice, and I kind of want to keep the whole shape-changing thing. On the other hand, I would agree that the simpler thing is easier to both manage and work within, and probably a better fit for (most of) the audience.Oh yeah, slaving is staying because thats a major part of this. It would be more like, instead of just growing outward however you want, you'd "buy" certain body plans. Like, say, an arm. You spend some levels and you buy an arm. This arm has 3 slots, it attaches to a main body piece. Or you buy a dual back slot which is two slots on the back, ideal for wings or doc octopus arms. Or you buy the expanded main body, or etc. And in this way you can have tons of limbs, but it's not op because they are inherently limited in size and scope. And with that we could remove some of the more complex body building features and the humanity rules restricting overuse, humanity cost for limbs since none will be outside norm because you just can't do it, etc.
Maybe we could have certain bits that allow you to deviate from body shape as part of their abilities, though? Like, maybe a centipede torso that allows you to attach any number of arms (at full humanity cost).
Also, it would be nice to keep slaving. Maybe restrict it to the smaller bits, though. Keep it to the fire gems and such rather than saying you can attach a hulk torso beneath the frost arm for some weird effect.
Post by: piecewise on October 03, 2016, 03:08:18 pm
Post by: spazyak on October 03, 2016, 03:10:59 pm
We don't get a reply by gentle here soon and I'm just gonna do the turn with him brain dead.I can take him over, be that evil voice in his head ridding him of humanity in attempts to draw blood.
Post by: Ozarck on October 03, 2016, 03:21:37 pm
+1 it's a test game, let's get it goingWe don't get a reply by gentle here soon and I'm just gonna do the turn with him brain dead.I can take him over, be that evil voice in his head ridding him of humanity in attempts to draw blood.
Post by: Gentlefish on October 03, 2016, 04:35:26 pm
Spoiler: Whoops sorry busy weekend (click to show/hide)
GO BITE THE LONER. Chase him down and rejoin my team.
Post by: spazyak on October 03, 2016, 04:41:04 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 03, 2016, 06:49:46 pm
Ren:60+ [70]
Gentle 60 +[69]
Oz 40+ [58]
Midjag 40 +[28]
Sy 38+[21]
Whisper: 35+[21]
Ren's Bug Swarm 18+[28]
It's basically the exact same except Oz moved up one space. He's currently under internal investigation.
Blue TeamYou order the swarm to go after gentle. I'm handling the swarm as it should be, as an NPC so its technically last to act due to low rolls. Dodge and stay alive huh? I'll add +30 to any dodge roll since you're concentrating on it.
Have the swarm go after Gentle. Dodge and stay alive.Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
((Meh. No more spoilers, I'll make it easier on ya PW))
No prob, but if you feel like you'll be unable to post once a day, do me a favor and designate a teammate to take actions for you, should you be absent. Also you seem to have missed Ren's post where he blew off your left foot and reduced your left lower leg to 5 HP.Spoiler: Whoops sorry busy weekend (click to show/hide)
GO BITE THE LONER. Chase him down and rejoin my team.
Now then, loner...I assume Midjag? Gonna go with that. 81+[70] for 151 vs his 40+[88]. So its a hit dealing 40+23=63 damage. But you didn't aim so we pick a spot at random....3..so Gut. Oh my, good shot. Lets check where Mid's core is...Oh my. You destroy his gut entirely, splitting his body into 3 sections, the upper body and the left and right legs. Of these three sections, only the right leg remains animate, hopping around. Oh and 13 damage is dealt to his upper leg, bringing it to 37 HP.
Team This ColorOz attacks Midjag with the cyber arm. So thats a total 62 str with the bonuses. 62+[100] vs 40+[73], for a difference of 49. Melee attacks only deal damage equal to the difference in the rolls so he deals 49 damage. No aim so...hits upper leg, destroys it and reduces lower leg to 18 HP.
clobber jag wiht cyber arm.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Mid is just getting clobbered. Lets see what his move is.
Hmm, his move is to attack sy. He has no chainsaw but he does have a foot.activate my chainsaw again, and then chainsaw spiky spiky stab man.Spoiler: blue (click to show/hide)
64+[95] =159 vs 76+25 bonus+[15]. so a difference of 43 damage. Man, if he still had a chainsaw, he'd be wrecking the shit out of sy. Even as a leg he's doing good.
No part specified so...Left lower arm. So Mid's severed leg leaps up and kicks sy so hard in the left arm that he completely severs it at the elbow and reduces the upper arm to 37 HP.
Now sy WOULD be up but he said specifically to wait till after whisperling so...
((Pretty sure I have more than a +34 bonus to more or less everything. Actually, shouldn't it use int, which is a lot higher? Assuming there isn't some quirk of the head that I missed, anyway.))Whisper attacks gentle because gentle is still alive. Tricloptic blast, so Int roll instead of dex, rolling 120 or greater to have the chance to hit. 85+[56] for 141. So he passes that, lets see if Gentle dodges. 50+[88]=138, very close. Ah, but wait. I just noticed, He specified that the shot was aimed, specifically at the chest. Which gives him a -30 penalty. Which means he shoots the wall.
Wait for Gentle to die. If he does, run over so that I have a better shot at Sy's chest, then tricloptic-head it. If he doesn't, blast Gentle's instead.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
And now, Sy
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[FRUSTRATED VIBRATIONS]"
TRY TO GRAB THAT GUY'S CHAINSAW AGAIN. WITH MY RIGHT ARM. OH YEAH, ALSO DELAY MY ACTION UNTIL AFTER WHISPERLING. AND DODGE ANY INCOMING ATTACKS WITH MY RIGHT LEG, BECAUSE APPARENTLY THAT NEEDS TO BE SPECIFIED.
((I suppose this is kinda my fault, but I meant to grab with my clockwork arm--that's why I have my grab bonus listed as +76--and then dodge with the leg. You didn't add my leg's dodge bonus last turn, though I'm guessing that's because you thought I was trying to grab with it.
As a side note, your inconsistent ordering of bonuses and rolls is kinda confusing. Maybe you could put [brackets] around the roll, leaving bonuses unmarked?))
((By the way, related to what he said, if you have a limb you always want to make certain rolls with (ie dex rolls for dodge) just stick the bonus it gives next to the stat in question like OZ did in his sheet and I'll always use that unless you specify otherwise. Seems the easiest way to do that.))
Hmm, no chainsaw to grab. But we CAN try to grab his severed leg. If you do that you render him completely unable to attack or move because you make that limb unusable. And that limb is all he is. So lets do our rolls
66+10+[3] vs 64+[16] OH MID GETS AWAY BY 1! 69 vs 70!
Alright and now, about that swarm
SWARM
The swarm attacks gentle. 18+[77] vs 50+[11], 34 difference, 18+34=52. Random hit...Right foot. The Swarm of Demonic insects cover Gentle's right leg, eating the foot and the lower leg straight off and dealing 7 damage to the upper leg, bringing it to 43 HP.
Current standing:
Ren: Sitting pretty, destroying Gentle's Legs
Gentle: Dick Biting Torso
Oz: Breaking Kneecaps
Midjag: Crippled Masters II: Revenge of the Foot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYYbvzz4RsU)
Sy: Kicked off the Highschool wrestling team
Whisper: Xmen's Cyclops with an astigmatism.
Post by: MidnightJaguar on October 03, 2016, 08:20:48 pm
Spoiler: leggy mcdeaddy (click to show/hide)
((Jesus, it is not a good day to be a jaguar.))
RUN! AWAY!…or I guess more accurately hop away quickly head towards my team.
Post by: Gentlefish on October 03, 2016, 09:14:46 pm
Spoiler: Herr Dick-biting Torso (click to show/hide)
BITE THE SWARM!
Post by: renegadelobster on October 03, 2016, 11:00:14 pm
Don't get my dick caught by the torso, but grab his chest and activate Smelt
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on October 04, 2016, 10:10:57 am
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[PAINED VIBRATIONS]"
GO PUNCH WHISPERLING.
Post by: Ozarck on October 04, 2016, 04:31:01 pm
Similarly, Gentle's should be (50 * .9)- 9[for the mandibles], so 36
I think.
Team This Color
Well, if Jag can still hit that hard being but a partial leg: Finish Jag off.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on October 04, 2016, 05:47:07 pm
Wait for Syv to get within relatively easy blasting distance, not melee though. Then tricloptic head him. If I can vessel of souls those severed bits into humanity, run over and do that afterwards.
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 04, 2016, 07:33:38 pm
Oz 40+ [84]
Sy 38+[71]
Midjag 40 +[57]
Ren's Bug Swarm 18+[60]
Ren:60+ [3]
Whisper: 35+[1]
Make sure you're subtracting the humanity for each time you use this.Spoiler: Herr Dick-biting Torso (click to show/hide)
BITE THE SWARM!
Lets see 81+[33] vs 18+ [17] = damage of 40 + 79 =119
Yeah, that swarm is dead as fuck.
Jag's max humanity should be something like 49 * .2, so 9.8 = 10.Hmm Oz is higher in the initiative roll again this turn. Hmmm. HMMMM!
Similarly, Gentle's should be (50 * .9)- 9[for the mandibles], so 36
I think.
Team This Color
Well, if Jag can still hit that hard being but a partial leg: Finish Jag off.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
62+[42] vs 64+[18]. Difference of 22. No hit location, so random...foot...DESTROYED! JAG IS DEAD!
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[PAINED VIBRATIONS]"
GO PUNCH WHISPERLING.
Sy boldly decides to leave the safety of the red horde and sprints across the room, through the low doorway between the furnaces and the molding rooms, and over to Whisperling. So lets see.
76+[84] vs 48+[39]= 73 damage. Man, if you had used your metal spike head, that would have wreck the shit out of him. Anyways, unaimed so...Right foot. Destroys the right foot, the right lower leg and leaves the right upper leg at 22 HP.
DEADSpoiler: leggy mcdeaddy (click to show/hide)
((Jesus, it is not a good day to be a jaguar.))
RUN! AWAY!…or I guess more accurately hop away quickly head towards my team.
Swarm is dead too
Blue Team
Don't get my dick caught by the torso, but grab his chest and activate SmeltSpoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Ah, so Ren is going running too. Hmm Smelt....so 55+[58] -30 for aimed vs 50 +[45]
Miss
((Do we regen humanity at the beginning or end of a turn?))You don't have much of a choice about that melee range, but the good news is that hitting him at this range is easy.
Wait for Syv to get within relatively easy blasting distance, not melee though. Then tricloptic head him. If I can vessel of souls those severed bits into humanity, run over and do that afterwards.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
85+[23] vs 101 +[3]. Whooping 4 damage there. Well, 24 because of the base damage. Lets see where...BOOM HEAD SHOT. Well, rod shot. 117 HP remaining on it. At least ya hit him.
Post by: Ozarck on October 04, 2016, 08:05:08 pm
Someone check me on Gentle's humanity. shouldn't the max be 36, recharge 4?
current humanity should then be no more than 35 with him biting that swarm (-5) and recharging 4 points. err, and another -5 from his previous bite, recharge 4 then too?
Post by: syvarris on October 04, 2016, 11:55:25 pm
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[BLOODTHISTY VIBRATIONS]"
PUNCH WHISPERLING AGAIN.
Post by: Gentlefish on October 05, 2016, 04:47:42 am
Spoiler: Updated fights more! (click to show/hide)
Humanity is heart/10*number of limbs. I have 45 as a max. I think. As such, I have spent 40 first turn (piston+smoldering) and regenned (at least) 5 after limb losses. Then I did some biting at -10 and lost some more llimbs so I am now at a 45 and 5 regen. Thus, I still have 45/45 humanity left. As a dick biting torso.
Bite some more blue people!
Post by: renegadelobster on October 05, 2016, 09:29:56 am
Grapple gentles left arm.
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on October 05, 2016, 01:01:22 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 05, 2016, 04:01:08 pm
((You also need to subtract the cost of your demon parts, Gentle, so you would have 34 humanity because your bear trap costs {9} ))45 - 9 = 36. silly.
Post by: Ozarck on October 05, 2016, 04:31:39 pm
Time to Clobber Whisperling - cyber arm, as per usual.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on October 05, 2016, 05:43:01 pm
Post by: Whisperling on October 05, 2016, 10:30:39 pm
Run and vessel of souls the corpse. Blast Syv right afterwards, if I can do that.
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 06, 2016, 09:24:20 am
Ren:60+ [96]
Whisper: 35+[88]
Oz 40+ [71]
Gentle 60 +[42]
Sy 38+[38]
Blue TeamI had to double check if he even had a left arm remaining.
Grapple gentles left arm.Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
77+[99] vs 81+[64]
72+[55] vs 50+[99]
Beat him on strength but not on dex. Grapple fails.
((Thanks, Oz.))Mid didn't have many parts when he died...he actually only had one left. But before his death a lot of good ones were severed off him. We'll have you vacuum up those. Lets see....thats....80 humanity. Remember you can't go over your max.
Run and vessel of souls the corpse. Blast Syv right afterwards, if I can do that.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
And blasting sy, that requires a speed roll of 100. 35+[91] Which you get.
Blasting sy is a difficult thing to do because the fucker has very high dex. 101, if you include his bonuses. I fee like you're gonna have to roll fantastically well to do much damage to him.
81+[61] vs 101+[79]
Miss.
Team This Color62+[98] vs 48+[47]= 65 damage. Dang, heck of a punch. Lets see where it lands....gut! You punch whisperling right in his laser firing crotch and blow the damn thing to pieces, destroying it and severing both his legs. You also deal 15 damage to his chest. However your clockwork hand takes 10 damage due to the effect of his corrosive goo chest.
Time to Clobber Whisperling - cyber arm, as per usual.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Bite more blue people eh? Well one of them, namely whisperling, ran over here and vacuumed up the corpse of his friend, so he's a good target.Spoiler: Updated fights more! (click to show/hide)
Humanity is heart/10*number of limbs. I have 45 as a max. I think. As such, I have spent 40 first turn (piston+smoldering) and regenned (at least) 5 after limb losses. Then I did some biting at -10 and lost some more llimbs so I am now at a 45 and 5 regen. Thus, I still have 45/45 humanity left. As a dick biting torso.
Bite some more blue people!
81+[54] vs 48+[68]= 19+40=59 damage
Random hit...Left hand. So whisper's left hand, left lower arm and 14 hp from his upper arm are taken.
76+[25] vs 48+[12]=41 damage to his...Head. So that leaves his head with 9 hp. You Really beat the ever living crap out of his face, but you don't take his entire head off. Not yet at least.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
"[BLOODTHISTY VIBRATIONS]"
PUNCH WHISPERLING AGAIN.
No deaths yet but Whisper is officially getting stomped in a corner.
Post by: renegadelobster on October 06, 2016, 11:49:20 am
Blast gentle with the demonic revolver.
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on October 06, 2016, 12:01:09 pm
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
PUNCH RENEGADE NOW.
Post by: Ozarck on October 06, 2016, 04:45:05 pm
Below is what Whisperling's stats should look like now, I believe.
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 06, 2016, 05:27:48 pm
Piecewise, does the destruction of a demon part remove the minus to humanity that it gave? If not, Whisperling has lost enough human parts to fall below 0 max humanity. If yes, then he retains 6 max humanity.Yeah, destroying a demon part removes the malus it gave.
Below is what Whisperling's stats should look like now, I believe.Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on October 06, 2016, 05:56:40 pm
Mkay.
Below is what Whisperling's stats should look like now, I believe.
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on October 07, 2016, 04:05:59 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Munch munch munch
Post by: Ozarck on October 07, 2016, 04:29:06 pm
Expend 28 humanity to punch ren with my cyber arm.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on October 07, 2016, 08:32:36 pm
Punch the first person to come into range.
Spoiler: Thanks once again, Oz. (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 08, 2016, 03:15:24 pm
Ren:60+ [87] 147
Whisper: 35+[9] 44
Oz 40+ [55] 95
Gentle 60 +[11] 71
Sy 38+[98] 136
So Ren, sy, Oz, Gentle and whisper
Blue Team72+[92] Definitely beats the 120 mark, lets see if it beats the dodge 50+[37] Yep by a long shot. However, being a ranged weapon it doesn't scale. 40 damage to gentle's...Gut. So blows a great big fucking hole in his stomach, very gory, guts everywhere, blood spraying, but doesn't sever it. Reduces it to 10 HP instead.
Blast gentle with the demonic revolver.Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Sy, I'm really quite confused as to why you got yourself the single most powerful melee weapon in terms of base damage and then never used it to attack.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
PUNCH RENEGADE NOW.
76+[52] vs 72+[38]=18 damage. Straight to...Upper right leg. So ren, upper right leg now at 32 HP please.
Team This ColorHey look, someone spent humanity!
Expend 28 humanity to punch ren with my cyber arm.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
So 62+28+[53]=143 vs 72+[23] = 48 damage to...Head. Reduces it to 2 Hp. Basically not much more than a red mushy mess, but still attached.
Munching continuesSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Munch munch munch
81+[89]=170 vs 48+[35]=87+40 for 127 damage to...head. Destroys the head completely, then deals 77 damage to his chest. Gentle takes 10 damage to his chomper due to corrosive ooze.
((I appear to be a fully-human punching bag. Ah, well.))
Punch the first person to come into range.Spoiler: Thanks once again, Oz. (click to show/hide)
Well, everyone else has gone to fight Ren, except for your buddy beartrap face. So lets attack him.
35+[28] vs 41+[70]
So thats a miss. Whispering is nothing but a block of acidic jello with an arm, swinging blindly at the guy attacking him.
Post by: Ozarck on October 08, 2016, 03:53:12 pm
What happens when that happens? that's what I want to see now, before the next turn, please.
P.S. spending humanity was part of my previous strategy, which I had to kinda drop due to low regen from my sloppy changes.
Post by: renegadelobster on October 08, 2016, 05:01:05 pm
Retreat! Get out of group curbstomp and dodge attacks. Go back the way I came in maybe?
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on October 08, 2016, 10:23:11 pm
Spoiler: Updated (click to show/hide)
Munch Ren before he runs away! Else munch on nearest blue-flavored person.
Post by: syvarris on October 08, 2016, 10:28:31 pm
Nope, that's not a good idea with the demon here. Chase down Ren--if I get into close range AND none of my allies follow, I'll use my metal spike to do a charged attack on him. This will immediately turn me into a demon, hopfully screwing him over before Whisper screws my team over. If, instead, there are allies nearby, I'll just punch Ren instead.
Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 08, 2016, 11:56:27 pm
No sir - whisperling is now a demon. That last destroyed part puts his max humanity to 0.There are two things that can happen.
What happens when that happens? that's what I want to see now, before the next turn, please.
P.S. spending humanity was part of my previous strategy, which I had to kinda drop due to low regen from my sloppy changes.
Either he just dies or we turn him into an NPC demon and fun happens.
Post by: Whisperling on October 08, 2016, 11:59:56 pm
No sir - whisperling is now a demon. That last destroyed part puts his max humanity to 0.There are two things that can happen.
What happens when that happens? that's what I want to see now, before the next turn, please.
P.S. spending humanity was part of my previous strategy, which I had to kinda drop due to low regen from my sloppy changes.
Either he just dies or we turn him into an NPC demon and fun happens.
Hey, this is a test game. Why not test more stuff, since the opportunity has presented itself?
Post by: renegadelobster on October 09, 2016, 12:13:51 am
Post by: MidnightJaguar on October 09, 2016, 12:16:32 am
Post by: Ozarck on October 09, 2016, 01:10:45 am
May as well try it out. Team red will probably suffer for it, unless there is some "and turns on those he once served" clause tucked in there as well.
Or it wanders off, completely uninterested in the proceedings, seeking to find it's place in
Post by: piecewise on October 09, 2016, 09:59:34 am
When a human goes demon, it's not a simple thing of him just becoming an NPC with all the same parts. Thats boring. They become powerful demons with their form and abilities related to whats left of the human when they go demon. So lets see whats left
Main body
1.Head (50 hp)
2.Chest- corrosive goo, core. (135 hp remaining)(-8 humanity)
Right arm
1.upper- vessel of souls (50 hp, 5 heart. Regens 10 humanity per body section absorbed) (-10 humanity)
2.lower (30 hp)
3.hand (15 hp)
There's a bit of arm left on the other side too but this is the main parts. So his core was sitting around in his chest and that chest is basically the major part of his body. Corrosive goo huh? Sounds like Vile-King territory, so we'll make this demon on of his and gift him with some magic. Infect seems like a good one. And his arm has that vessel of souls, so we're gonna give him an passive ability where he drains the humanity of creatures around him. D6 drain should be good.
Now lets look at his stats
Strength: 35
Dex: 48
Speed: 35
Int: 85
Heart: 55
Clearly his strength isn't strength, it's int. So we're gonna do this
Strength: 65
Dex: 65
Speed: 1
Int: 100
Heart: 0
And grant him writhe of flesh as well.
Now about his body...We're gonna make him what amounts to a gelatinous cube with lots of thin, tendril arms. Body is 4 parts, 100 HP each, 6 tendrils, 2 parts each, 30 HP each part. His core is a big pulsating brain held in the center of the cube. Dealing damage to him with melee body parts still deals 10 damage to the part, because he is corrosive.
So, Whisper's body swells huge, the gooey core inflating to be easily 5 feet on every side. A half dozen thin tendrils sprout out of the cube and each one of them glows a sickly green at their tip. Within the center of the cube, a pulsating purple brain glows faintly with a two pointed green crown of light floating just above it.
Now, demons have no side, they just want to kill. But you guys all still have sides and you only win if the other one dies and you survive.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on October 09, 2016, 12:53:23 pm
Post by: syvarris on October 09, 2016, 01:25:39 pm
What body sections are the demon's tendrils attached to? I think it should have eight limbs, two per body section. Symmetry!
Post by: Ozarck on October 09, 2016, 01:45:49 pm
Can they take cut this demon's arms and replace their own in midfight?replacing body parts requires an int roll, I believe.
PW, I have questions. Please review this post, including the spoiler.
Alright then, lets make a demon.I don't know if this matters but his head was destroyed, and his gooey center was down to 58 hp as a result of the last attack on him.
When a human goes demon, it's not a simple thing of him just becoming an NPC with all the same parts. Thats boring. They become powerful demons with their form and abilities related to whats left of the human when they go demon. So lets see whats left
Main body1.Head (50 hp)
2.Chest- corrosive goo, core. (13558 hp remaining)(-8 humanity)
Right arm
1.upper- vessel of souls (50 hp, 5 heart. Regens 10 humanity per body section absorbed) (-10 humanity)
2.lower (30 hp)
3.hand (15 hp)
granting him the passive humanity drain, the gooey body, and infect all make sense, but why Writhe?
So the Demon, from a Character sheet standpoint, looks something like this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Does he have infect on all his tendrils? Do the spells deduct from his int? How are the spells and passives powered, since he has no humanity to draw upon? (i.e. can he cast them as often as he wants?)
Finally, can we get an updated map? ren, Syv and I were at teh entrance to the conveyor room that team blue entered from, and whisper and gentle were nearer to where team red entered, if memory serves.
Action edited.nah, his head is completely encased by the other three cube parts. Two per exposed part, or one per cube side
What body sections are the demon's tendrils attached to? I think it should have eight limbs, two per body section. Symmetry!
Post by: piecewise on October 09, 2016, 08:57:02 pm
Can they take cut this demon's arms and replace their own in midfight?Sure, with the right rolls
Nah, doesn't matterCan they take cut this demon's arms and replace their own in midfight?replacing body parts requires an int roll, I believe.
PW, I have questions. Please review this post, including the spoiler.Alright then, lets make a demon.I don't know if this matters but his head was destroyed, and his gooey center was down to 58 hp as a result of the last attack on him.
When a human goes demon, it's not a simple thing of him just becoming an NPC with all the same parts. Thats boring. They become powerful demons with their form and abilities related to whats left of the human when they go demon. So lets see whats left
Main body1.Head (50 hp)
2.Chest- corrosive goo, core. (13558 hp remaining)(-8 humanity)
Right arm
1.upper- vessel of souls (50 hp, 5 heart. Regens 10 humanity per body section absorbed) (-10 humanity)
2.lower (30 hp)
3.hand (15 hp)
granting him the passive humanity drain, the gooey body, and infect all make sense, but why Writhe?
So the Demon, from a Character sheet standpoint, looks something like this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Does he have infect on all his tendrils? Do the spells deduct from his int? How are the spells and passives powered, since he has no humanity to draw upon? (i.e. can he cast them as often as he wants?)
Finally, can we get an updated map? ren, Syv and I were at teh entrance to the conveyor room that team blue entered from, and whisper and gentle were nearer to where team red entered, if memory serves.Action edited.nah, his head is completely encased by the other three cube parts. Two per exposed part, or one per cube side
What body sections are the demon's tendrils attached to? I think it should have eight limbs, two per body section. Symmetry!
In terms of demon part locations it would be more like
Brain
Goo
Tendril
Tendril
Goo
Tendril
Tendril
Goo
Tendril
Goo
Tendril
The goo surrounds the brain, the tendrils come from the goo. Can't strike the brain till you get through some goo. Brain is core, obviously. Thats the thing bout demons, they're powerful but they're not as robust as you are usually, They tend to have set cores that are easier to guess.
Infect doesn't say it has to be on the limb used, it just has to be on the body. And as to how they work; it doesn't drain int and it uses them whenever they want. It will probably have a time limit between spells in the finished version.
I'll get you a map soon
Post by: piecewise on October 10, 2016, 03:53:21 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 10, 2016, 05:14:59 pm
I'm going to move north east to the open area behind the two pillars in the room I am currently in and wait a turn. Is there and exit back in the room team red entered from?
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on October 10, 2016, 07:23:33 pm
Spoiler: Updated-man! (click to show/hide)
Run away! Towards the conveyor belt. Spend 16 humanity to get going more faster. Head-butt someone blue along the way if possible (no bite this turn)
Post by: syvarris on October 10, 2016, 08:43:56 pm
((I took the metal spike intending to grab people, and then use it for a called shot on the grappled person to one-hit them. I would've also used it on Ren rather than grabbing, but by the time grabbing was no longer my strategy my humanity cap had gotten so low that trying to penetrate people with my spike would instantly turn me into a demon.))Ren punchies. Spend four humanity, might as well.
Nope, that's not a good idea with the demon here. Chase down Ren--if I get into close range AND none of my allies follow, I'll use my metal spike to do a charged attack on him. This will immediately turn me into a demon, hopfully screwing him over before Whisper screws my team over. If, instead, there are allies nearby, I'll just punch Ren instead.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
Post by: renegadelobster on October 10, 2016, 10:20:04 pm
Blue Team
Retreat! Get out of group curbstomp and dodge attacks. Go back the way I came in maybe?Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 11, 2016, 10:00:57 am
Oz 40+ [88]
Sy 38+[60]
DEMON: 1+[67]
Ren:60+ [2]
Team This ColorYou jump the conveyor belt and hide behind the north most pillar in the room.
I'm going to move north east to the open area behind the two pillars in the room I am currently in and wait a turn. Is there and exit back in the room team red entered from?Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
An exit back in the room the red team entered from? I'm not sure what you mean.
"Head towards the conveyor belt"Spoiler: Updated-man! (click to show/hide)
Run away! Towards the conveyor belt. Spend 16 humanity to get going more faster. Head-butt someone blue along the way if possible (no bite this turn)
There are conveyor belts in both directions! There are conveyor belts everywhere! I'm gonna make the assumption that you mean to run in the direction the conveyor belt moves, so towards the room the blues originally came out of. In which case, I'm gonna have you run over to where sy is right now and headbutt ren.
81+ [81] vs 72 + [38] for damage of 52 to his....Chest. 130-52=78 hp left.
And you want to try and keep running. 60+[23]
Nope.
No self sacrificing today, it seems.((I took the metal spike intending to grab people, and then use it for a called shot on the grappled person to one-hit them. I would've also used it on Ren rather than grabbing, but by the time grabbing was no longer my strategy my humanity cap had gotten so low that trying to penetrate people with my spike would instantly turn me into a demon.))Ren punchies. Spend four humanity, might as well.
Nope, that's not a good idea with the demon here. Chase down Ren--if I get into close range AND none of my allies follow, I'll use my metal spike to do a charged attack on him. This will immediately turn me into a demon, hopfully screwing him over before Whisper screws my team over. If, instead, there are allies nearby, I'll just punch Ren instead.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
76+[42] vs 72+[31] for damage of 15 to his right lower arm. 15 hp left on it.
DEMON
The demon glides into the room like an ice cube sliding along a glass table. It reaches out and tries to touch Gentle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A pulse of green light travels out from the brain all the way down to the tip of the tendril touching gentle's....Right upper leg. The leg instantly rots away into a shriveled black mass (100-43=57), as does his gut (57-10=47). The black infection spreads up to his chest, shriveling it horribly, but not destroying it completely. (70-47= 23 hp remaining).
Blue Team
Retreat! Get out of group curbstomp and dodge attacks. Go back the way I came in maybe?Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
You immediately leap back through the hole blue team originally emerged from and then hop off the conveyor belt and run to the far side of the room.
Post by: renegadelobster on October 11, 2016, 10:18:29 am
DOOOODGE
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on October 11, 2016, 12:29:24 pm
Chase down Ren--if I get into close range AND none of my allies follow, I'll use my metal spike to do a charged attack on him. This will immediately turn me into a demon, hopfully screwing him over before Whisper screws my team over. If, instead, there are allies nearby, I'll just punch Ren instead.Spoiler: Red Rod (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on October 11, 2016, 03:34:20 pm
Team This Color
I meant: 'is there a way to leave the battle arena once ren is destroyed, thereby escaping whit our lives and not being killed by two rampaging demons?
Any passive humanity drain this round?
Is it possible for me to get up to where hte pipes are coming into this room from the furnace room without crossing paths with Gozer the Lime Green Jello Man? Do those pipes look like I could maybe break them without killing myself? Edit: or does it seem possible to disconnect them from the vats they are leading into?
I have a
Post by: piecewise on October 11, 2016, 09:08:20 pm
((gentle's max humanity drops by 10 this round, due to loss of human bits.))Sy and Gentle both lose 6 humanity
Team This Color
I meant: 'is there a way to leave the battle arena once ren is destroyed, thereby escaping whit our lives and not being killed by two rampaging demons?
Any passive humanity drain this round?
Is it possible for me to get up to where hte pipes are coming into this room from the furnace room without crossing paths with Gozer the Lime Green Jello Man? Do those pipes look like I could maybe break them without killing myself? Edit: or does it seem possible to disconnect them from the vats they are leading into?
I have aplanreally stupid idea, guys.
Post by: syvarris on October 11, 2016, 09:10:59 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 11, 2016, 10:02:11 pm
Welp. I'm hoping the fact that syv was fixated on Ren transfers over, at least for long enough for demon number 2 to go through the conveyor slot.
Think I'll hide among the machinery for a turn.
This is starting to look like that test game of ER Redux where we were in the old, robot infested colloseum.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: renegadelobster on October 11, 2016, 11:07:21 pm
*sweating intensifies*
D...dodge?
Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
Post by: spazyak on October 12, 2016, 09:17:15 am
Post by: Ozarck on October 12, 2016, 11:08:04 am
Post by: Lenglon on October 12, 2016, 11:29:25 am
YouSome typos are fine, but that was barely readable.alpall cameher ehere to fight and have a bitofmfunof fun, left here as some demons.
Post by: spazyak on October 12, 2016, 11:40:45 am
Was rushing and typing on broken phone, could hardly see what I was typing. My appolagies.YouSome typos are fine, but that was barely readable.alpall cameher ehere to fight and have a bitofmfunof fun, left here as some demons.
Post by: Gentlefish on October 12, 2016, 03:33:13 pm
Spoiler: I WILL LIVE DAMMIT (click to show/hide)
Since I didn't see any of my humanity I spent, spent, I won't push it out. Run as fast as I can, and use 13 humanity to go more further.
Post by: syvarris on October 12, 2016, 03:39:01 pm
"Brelay"? Lneg, Esiglnh can be sfngnictiilay mroe mseesd up, wilhe slitl bineg brelay rdabeeale.YouSome typos are fine, but that was barely readable.alpall cameher ehere to fight and have a bitofmfunof fun, left here as some demons.
Post by: spazyak on October 12, 2016, 03:56:40 pm
Htis mademe lauhg so had ym famliy awnted ot oknwo. Htye lauhged too"Brelay"? Lneg, Esiglnh can be sfngnictiilay mroe mseesd up, wilhe slitl bineg brelay rdabeeale.YouSome typos are fine, but that was barely readable.alpall cameher ehere to fight and have a bitofmfunof fun, left here as some demons.
Post by: The Lupanian on October 12, 2016, 05:52:27 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 12, 2016, 06:08:30 pm
Post by: spazyak on October 12, 2016, 06:14:49 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 12, 2016, 11:03:44 pm
May I ask, what happened with erredux and what changes will occur between round 2 and this round?ERredux was me playing around with a system for an ER sequel, if people wanted it. I kind of stopped the test mid-fight because I got distracted with stuff and came back to work on this stuff. Like I said a while back, I want to get this system up and play the first level of Ouro to see what the consensus is on what people want to do.
Round 2 may well be "Welcome to oroboropolis, get fucked: electric boogaloo"Probably, yeah. I'll probably make those changes to humanity and stuff, slap together the body parts for the critters in the first level and then we'll get to it. As per who goes into that round, we should probably do the fair thing and raffle them off.
And then sy was a demon.
Oh dear, sy became a demon huh? Lets see what kind, though I already have an idea (http://img00.deviantart.net/300b/i/2012/317/f/e/supasnap__pyramid_head_isn__t_that_scary__by_moonfoxultima-d5kxseg.jpg)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Str: 100
Dex: 100
Spd: 50
Int: 0
Hrt:0
Parts:
Trunk:
Metal Spike (150 HP) [Non-organic][End][Melee weapon: base 60]
Disgustingly Overmuscled Chest (100 HP) [+10 str]
Disgustingly Overmuscled Gut (80 HP) [+10 str]
Right Arm:
Clockwork Tentacle Upper (120 HP) (+10 str)[Non-organic]
Clockwork Tentacle Lower (100 HP) (+10 str)[Non-organic]
Clockwork Tendril Mass (90 HP) (+10 dex)[GRASP][END][Non-organic]
Lower body:
Naga Upper (100 HP) (+10 dex)
Naga Lower (80 HP) (+10 dex)
No magic or special abilities.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 12, 2016, 11:11:19 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 13, 2016, 12:23:16 am
Clockwork Tendril Mass would be inorganic as well, right?yep fixed
Post by: Ozarck on October 13, 2016, 04:31:08 pm
1) give your faithful playtesters first pick on the first run, then have them sit out for a turn or two. This would be Egan, Syv, Spaz, Gentle, possibly myself, ren I think, and maybe some others.
2) make your playtesters sit out the first run, and get some people who haven't been as involved. that way, you get some fresh eyes, and we can test the broader appeal and functionality.
A raffle works too. Might make a little extra dough, eh?
I'm guessing the core of Pyrasyv Head is the spike? You said they tend to be rather easily spotted.
Post by: spazyak on October 13, 2016, 06:44:23 pm
I suggest you decide in one of two ways concerning round 2:Auction off first run
1) give your faithful playtesters first pick on the first run, then have them sit out for a turn or two. This would be Egan, Syv, Spaz, Gentle, possibly myself, ren I think, and maybe some others.
2) make your playtesters sit out the first run, and get some people who haven't been as involved. that way, you get some fresh eyes, and we can test the broader appeal and functionality.
A raffle works too. Might make a little extra dough.
I mean I've no monie to spare but hey, you deserve monies pw
Post by: piecewise on October 14, 2016, 09:42:07 am
((gentle's max humanity drops by 10 this round, due to loss of human bits.))Well, you know there's no way out the way you came. But maybe if you head the blue way...
Team This Color
I meant: 'is there a way to leave the battle arena once ren is destroyed, thereby escaping whit our lives and not being killed by two rampaging demons?
Any passive humanity drain this round?
Is it possible for me to get up to where hte pipes are coming into this room from the furnace room without crossing paths with Gozer the Lime Green Jello Man? Do those pipes look like I could maybe break them without killing myself? Edit: or does it seem possible to disconnect them from the vats they are leading into?
I have aplanreally stupid idea, guys.
Uh, maybe? but there's not much room up there. The pipes are basically pressed right against the ceiling. You could try climbing on one of the molding machines and using it to jump up. But doing so might attract attention.
Break them? Well they are quite thick and heavy duty metal, so you'd need something to cut or corrode it. Disconnecting maybe, but you'd need a way to unscrew them.
Post by: piecewise on October 14, 2016, 11:14:31 am
Oz 40+ [76] 116
DEMON: 1+[76] 79
DEMON 50+ [25] 75
Ren:60+ [99] 159
ren gentle oz green demon red demon
Blue Team
*sweating intensifies*
D...dodge?Spoiler: Stats/Spells/Limbs (click to show/hide)
You take up a defensive stance. +30 dex for this turn.
Well you don't have legs since your entire lower body has rotted off. Remember, it destroyed your gut and severed all those parts. So you move a bit, pull yourself up on the conveyor belt and ride it into the next room where Ren is.Spoiler: I WILL LIVE DAMMIT (click to show/hide)
Since I didn't see any of my humanity I spent, spent, I won't push it out. Run as fast as I can, and use 13 humanity to go more further.
And then Infect deals 90 damage to your chest and completely severs everything except for your metal head. So you are now nothing but a demonic bear trap hopping around.
And I'm guessing that means you go demon, right?
Team This Color
Welp. I'm hoping the fact that syv was fixated on Ren transfers over, at least for long enough for demon number 2 to go through the conveyor slot.
Think I'll hide among the machinery for a turn.
This is starting to look like that test game of ER Redux where we were in the old, robot infested colloseum.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Hiding is dex vs int. Lets see...41+[78]
Now, you're the last one in the room with the demons because everyone else ran away. Sydemon is gonna follow Ren, but Jello demon could go either way...He decides to look around in this room for something to murder.
100+[93] He notices you hanging out behind some machinery.
DEMON
The jello demon looks at you...or at least seems to focus on you with its big, eyeless brain.
100+[22] vs 41+[43]
Your left leg starts twitching and writhing uncontrollably, but luckily this does no damage.
DEMON
Sydemon slithers through the hole into the room with Ren and the newly...not decapitated because we didn't remove his head we removed everything BUT his head. Not sure there's a word for that. Anyways, He attacks Ren.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
100+20 +[22] vs 77+[14] difference of 43
100+10 [95] vs 72 +30+[100] Difference of 3
Total difference 46
Sydemon attempts a second action
100+[99] Gets to do it.
Sy demon Aims an attack at Ren's head, the metal spike as the weapon and the bonus from his body for the attack.
100+20+[100(!)] -30 from aimed shot vs 72+30-46+[35]=91 For a difference of 99. Spike has 60 base for 159 damage.
The attack cleaves straight through Ren's head, Chest-hive and gut in a single blow, bisecting him and instantly killing him.
Post by: syvarris on October 14, 2016, 12:44:48 pm
Yaaay, my team won!
Post by: piecewise on October 14, 2016, 01:25:12 pm
So... so technically, the only surviving player is Oz, right? And therefore Red Team won, despite there now being three demons primed to kill him?
Yaaay, my team won!
Well, he'll win if he kills all the demons or escapes
Post by: Gentlefish on October 14, 2016, 03:00:24 pm
Post by: spazyak on October 14, 2016, 04:01:19 pm
oh my god, run Oz!run oz run
use your nitr-oz
I wanted to do more puns but I am out.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 14, 2016, 04:06:12 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 14, 2016, 04:12:14 pm
I'm thinking Sydemon won't remember, being an int 0 monster.
I'm guessing Gentle turns into a Chain Chomp, and likewise fails to worry about it much. that leaves The Jelly Green Giant, and his speed is 1, so I might be able to outrun him for a while - kite and kill. Ugh, but it's gonna take nine more turns for that leg to get under control ...
Team: And Then There Was One
Avoiding Jelly Belly Badness, (including blocking andy tendril attacks using my mechanical arm.) I will head toward the furnace room, looking constantly for a way to use the tearrain to my advantage, like possibly separating the pipes leading from the furnace from the vats, so that molten metal rains down on my pursuer. is there a way to seal off that hole into the other room? I'd kinda like to never see those guys again, if possible.((boy am I ever sorry that I didn't get pneumatic strength instead of writhe.))
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on October 14, 2016, 04:49:11 pm
Also, kiting and killing is a terrible idea. Infect is a pretty effective one hit kill, and it'll be used eventually.
Post by: Ozarck on October 14, 2016, 07:14:29 pm
I'm probably going to need to throw a bunch of shit at the demon, or try to collect a tricloptic head from one of the deceased, if possible. keeping him at range while i whittle down his health or chop off his limbs will help.
I mean, what else am I going to do? charge in and hope for a one hit kill of my own? I forgot to switch writhe for pneumatic, so that's not happening. he's even got better dex than I, so I still have to spend humanity to grant me the likelihood of a successful hit. especially if I target the brain. that -30 for aimed blows will really work against me there.
Post by: piecewise on October 14, 2016, 10:23:51 pm
Bah, your leg being WoF'd isn't an issue. Movement in this game isn't affected by limbs without stat bonuses, or any lack thereof; just do a handstand and run away on your arms. Spend some humanity on it too--might as well.There are two ways to stop infect:
Also, kiting and killing is a terrible idea. Infect is a pretty effective one hit kill, and it'll be used eventually.
1. Have a mechanical or non-organic part in the way.
2. Sever the infected part.
Post by: Ozarck on October 14, 2016, 11:00:10 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 15, 2016, 11:58:27 am
And now we find out just how well demons remember things like "Hey there was another room back there. and wasn't there a guy in it? Oh, I want to kill that guy. Yeah."
I'm thinking Sydemon won't remember, being an int 0 monster.
I'm guessing Gentle turns into a Chain Chomp, and likewise fails to worry about it much. that leaves The Jelly Green Giant, and his speed is 1, so I might be able to outrun him for a while - kite and kill. Ugh, but it's gonna take nine more turns for that leg to get under control ...
Team: And Then There Was One
Avoiding Jelly Belly Badness, (including blocking andy tendril attacks using my mechanical arm.) I will head toward the furnace room, looking constantly for a way to use the tearrain to my advantage, like possibly separating the pipes leading from the furnace from the vats, so that molten metal rains down on my pursuer. is there a way to seal off that hole into the other room? I'd kinda like to never see those guys again, if possible.((boy am I ever sorry that I didn't get pneumatic strength instead of writhe.))Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
For the moment you only have to contend with the demon in this room since the other two aren't smart enough to remember you being there.
40+[39] vs 1+[19]
So you make a run for it and get back into the furnace room and around behind a wall before the demon can lash out at you. Once there you take a look around for something in the environment to use:
70+[12]
Well...there's some sharp metal pieces you might be able to use as a weapon. And if you could open the furnace then you might be able to flood the room in molten metal. You're not sure how you'd do that though.
Post by: Ozarck on October 15, 2016, 01:11:26 pm
I'll grab the sharpest bit that I can reasonably handle, with my cyber arm. If the demon is approaching I'll run into the next room, looking for possible escape routes.
Come on, humanity, regenerate faster, damn it!
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 15, 2016, 04:13:37 pm
Team: And Then There Was OneYou run over and grab the longest, sharpest, most bladey looking one you can find. You think you could probably do a good 30 extra damage to flesh with this. That done you run into the room red team started in and look around. You see no exits in here. Or if there is one, its very well hidden. Then again, most of the room is filled with piles of sharp scrap metal and the room itself is nearly pitch black.
I'll grab the sharpest bit that I can reasonably handle, with my cyber arm. If the demon is approaching I'll run into the next room, looking for possible escape routes.
Come on, humanity, regenerate faster, damn it!Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on October 15, 2016, 07:24:59 pm
Also, do I even know where JelloBuddy is right now?
Post by: Parisbre56 on October 16, 2016, 09:45:07 am
Post by: piecewise on October 16, 2016, 12:36:47 pm
You have no idea where he is, honestly. You've been so focused on running from him, gathering weapons and looking for something to use in the environment that you've lost track of him.Can I get a sense of where that scrap is coming in from? is it falling from the ceiling, for example? Can I ask that without it counting as a turn? Because, you know, time is precious so I want to make an actual action.I missed your reply to a previous question regarding this area. forget I asked.
Also, do I even know where JelloBuddy is right now?
Depending on how your stats translate to real strength, you could just humanity boost your strength and blow up the wall or enlarge a window. Or maybe just jump incredibly high to reach some sort of hole in the roof? Is that a thing that can happen in this system? Or is strength just your skill in using your strength, not the actual strength of your body/soul/whatever?You could do something like that, but it would be a very high level roll.
Post by: Ozarck on October 16, 2016, 02:17:38 pm
I'll hide in the dark, to the south of the conveyor, and
wait where I am. throw a piece of rebar at the demon and run past it, keeping out of arm's lenght, even if that means running on the conveyor. head back to the next room.
pleasaedontdiepleasedontdiepleasedontdiepleasedontdie.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 16, 2016, 04:52:33 pm
Team: And Then There Was One
I'll hide in the dark, to the south of the conveyor, andblock any attack that comes my way with my clockwork arm and spiky thingif the creature comes in and spots me, I will move to stay out of arm's reach. If this is two actions and I can't do both in one turn, then instead I'll:
wait where I am. throw a piece of rebar at the demon and run past it, keeping out of arm's lenght, even if that means running on the conveyor. head back to the next room.
pleasaedontdiepleasedontdiepleasedontdiepleasedontdie.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
You walk around to the south of the conveyor and crouch down behind it, hiding in the dark as best you can (Dark bonus+30). You idly wonder how a creature with no eyes sees and if darkness will actually help you at all. Somewhere back near the mold room, you hear a sort of clacking noise and then a heavy, metallic clang; like a metal shelf falling onto the concrete.
Post by: Ozarck on October 16, 2016, 05:27:28 pm
Team: And Then There Was One
I gotta peek out of my hidey hole and see what the racket is, keeping an eye out for the green guy as well. Grab a rebar in my off hand, if I have time.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 16, 2016, 10:27:51 pm
Oh, shit. It's gone and recruited the others. They're climbing through the hole. that, or it's blocking me in. Or both.Team: And Then There Was OneYou grab another chunk of metal, albeit a less sharp one (15 base) and slowly tip toe around to look back in the direction of the mold room. You see, at a distance, that all three of the demons are now standing around in the mold room. It looks like the Demonic Beartrap has become...well...a demonic bear trap. But bigger. And with long spidery metal legs.
I gotta peek out of my hidey hole and see what the racket is, keeping an eye out for the green guy as well. Grab a rebar in my off hand, if I have time.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 16, 2016, 11:55:26 pm
Post by: spazyak on October 17, 2016, 11:11:58 am
and then this became a horror gameInsert the horrid violin Schreeeeeeech
Post by: Ozarck on October 17, 2016, 03:57:37 pm
If I am sure they are just standing around, I'm going to carefully examine my current room for vents, crawl spaces, ladders, and other means of ingress and egress. Floor to ceiling. I will do so carefully, so as not to cause noise that draws their attention.
If instead they seem to be heading this way ,I'll hide next to the conveyor again and prepare for a mad dash past them. That, or I 'll disguise myself as a piece of scrap and ride the conveyor past them (provided they move far enough into furnace room) and hop off before I get too warm, and then do the mad dash thing.)
I will also use all my intellect to try and reason out any options I have missed, htat might make my odds of survival better.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
A guy with a clockwork arm and a doll head for a foot, versus a giant wobbly jelly, a spike with snake body and mechanical snake arm, and a spider beartrap. niiiiiiice.
Post by: spazyak on October 17, 2016, 04:03:45 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 17, 2016, 04:12:02 pm
but that's neither here nr there. Or perhaps it's both.
Post by: spazyak on October 17, 2016, 04:17:31 pm
Eh, as long as nobody observes it, Ozquark will remain in a state of quantum superposition. That gives me the advanage.heh.
but that's neither here nr there. Or perhaps it's both.
Post by: piecewise on October 17, 2016, 07:57:47 pm
Team: And Then There Was OneYou go hide in the corner as the demons walk...slither...slide...move toward you. They make it into the same room as you and all stand around at the entrance.
If I am sure they are just standing around, I'm going to carefully examine my current room for vents, crawl spaces, ladders, and other means of ingress and egress. Floor to ceiling. I will do so carefully, so as not to cause noise that draws their attention.
If instead they seem to be heading this way ,I'll hide next to the conveyor again and prepare for a mad dash past them. That, or I 'll disguise myself as a piece of scrap and ride the conveyor past them (provided they move far enough into furnace room) and hop off before I get too warm, and then do the mad dash thing.)
I will also use all my intellect to try and reason out any options I have missed, htat might make my odds of survival better.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
A guy with a clockwork arm and a doll head for a foot, versus a giant wobbly jelly, a spike with snake body and mechanical snake arm, and a spider beartrap. niiiiiiice.
You look around and think about your options...
70+[78]
Hmm...well there's nothing here to help you...Hmm. But maybe, if you were just dexterous enough, You could leap up on the conveyor belt and use its forward motion to run out of the room even faster...It would require hopping several pieces of sharp scrap to do so, but it's relatively high up and moving quickly so anything trying to gut you would at least be at a disadvantage.
Post by: Ozarck on October 17, 2016, 09:43:08 pm
Team: And Then There Was One
Okay, I'm to the south of the conveyor and they're to the north of it. So, they will probably walk around the conveyor rather than leap over it. Unless that spiderbeartrap can step over it? If they need to move around the conveyor to get to me, I'll wait until they are at the end of the conveyor, spend 40 humanity on dex, and leap up there, running away down the conveyor. I'll keep running the whole turn.
If they don't have to go around, I'll do that immediately instead.
-grumble- using all my stored humanity that I was going to use for an actual attack on jellygooboy. I wanted to kill a monster -grumble.
Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 17, 2016, 09:46:22 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 18, 2016, 03:50:30 pm
Post by: piecewise on October 19, 2016, 10:05:04 am
Then Sy-demon and the Jello blob stand in the doorway while the spider-trap skitters about, thrusting its sharp metal legs into the piles of shrapnel, searching for you.
Team: And Then There Was One
Okay, I'm to the south of the conveyor and they're to the north of it. So, they will probably walk around the conveyor rather than leap over it. Unless that spiderbeartrap can step over it? If they need to move around the conveyor to get to me, I'll wait until they are at the end of the conveyor, spend 40 humanity on dex, and leap up there, running away down the conveyor. I'll keep running the whole turn.
If they don't have to go around, I'll do that immediately instead.
-grumble- using all my stored humanity that I was going to use for an actual attack on jellygooboy. I wanted to kill a monster -grumble.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
41+[69]-30 (Leg spazing out makes it hard to hide)
The spider-Trap notices you almost immediately, and screeches a horrible grating metal noise. You don't wait to see what will happen next and instead leap up on the conveyor belt and make a run for it.
41+40+[57]
You hurdle over several chunks of sharp metal and use the speed of the conveyor belt to push you forward. You ride the forward belt until it ends in the next room, jump off and then run straight through the mold room and jump on the conveyor in there, letting it pull you through the hole and into the room the blue team started in.
Post by: Ozarck on October 19, 2016, 04:37:07 pm
Team: And Then There Was One
I'm going to hop off the conveyor, grab ren's right arm, (discarding the lesser piece of scrap metal if I can't easily carry it somehow) and then ride the conveyor into the room south of where I am now.
Have I heard the sounds of pursuit? What do I know about bear-trap demon? If any of the demons have kept up, or are close enough to make this action risky, instead, I'll just keep running and riding the conveyor into the next room and beyond. Straight through, no detours, unless there is something like a big metal stamping machine in the way. In which case I'll avoid going into that.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 19, 2016, 05:19:45 pm
You know, I'm pretty apt to just call it for you right now. None of the demons have high speed, the jello one can't make it through the hole with the conveyor belt, and if you just follow the conveyors you'll find a way out.
Team: And Then There Was One
I'm going to hop off the conveyor, grab ren's right arm, (discarding the lesser piece of scrap metal if I can't easily carry it somehow) and then ride the conveyor into the room south of where I am now.
Have I heard the sounds of pursuit? What do I know about bear-trap demon? If any of the demons have kept up, or are close enough to make this action risky, instead, I'll just keep running and riding the conveyor into the next room and beyond. Straight through, no detours, unless there is something like a big metal stamping machine in the way. In which case I'll avoid going into that.Spoiler: Stats etc (click to show/hide)
I think We'll say you made it and I'm gonna go work on finishing up the revised rules.
Post by: Gentlefish on October 19, 2016, 07:35:39 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 19, 2016, 09:37:51 pm
now for a couple of after action questions. no need to answer immediately, though. I'm just being greedy. Work on the revisions, since I'll have to adjust my character to fit into the new rules anyway.
One: did I get the demonic gun and arm? I want to use the upper arm to restore hp to my clockwork hand (if that matters) and have that gun as a possible replacement or addition to my current arsenal.
Two: Will I get a level up?
three: will my level up be affected by the actions I took this game?
Successful actions included punching jag to death,
shattering Whisperling with a cyber punch,
using humanity to enhance a punch to ren's head,
(Accidentally getting my teammate monsterized by reminding the GM about the Demon's passive humanity drain)
hiding in the dark from demons two rooms away,
using humanity to leap onto a conveyor and bravely run the fuck away.
if it's a generic, choose your own rewards, x amount of points level up, i'll probably do something with the cyber arm and humanity, since those seemed to be my strengths. this stupid doll head is useless, and i don't see myself using writhe much.
Post by: Beirus on October 27, 2016, 11:59:56 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2016, 02:17:18 pm
Spoiler: Liquid Ocean (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on October 27, 2016, 02:36:08 pm
Spoiler: Hopefully less useless? (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2016, 03:13:14 pm
In that case, Liquid ocean shall use the dark silver tracer.
Post by: piecewise on October 27, 2016, 05:34:56 pm
Dammit man, stop stealing my shit! >:PYou can both use the same weapon
In that case, Liquid ocean shall use the dark silver tracer.
Post by: Ozarck on October 27, 2016, 05:37:08 pm
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2016, 05:46:32 pm
Yeah, but I don't want to. :PDammit man, stop stealing my shit! >:PYou can both use the same weapon
In that case, Liquid ocean shall use the dark silver tracer.
Gold Tracer is unique. This only really makes sense if one of us is an invader or on NG+
Post by: Lenglon on October 27, 2016, 07:25:22 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 27, 2016, 07:56:21 pm
Yeah, but I don't want to. :PDammit man, stop stealing my shit! >:PYou can both use the same weapon
In that case, Liquid ocean shall use the dark silver tracer.
Gold Tracer is unique. This only really makes sense if one of us is an invader or on NG+
Fine then
Name: Silver tracer
Type: Melee
HP: 150
Base Damage: 15
Stat Used: Dex
Stat Bonus: None
Stat Requirement: 70 dex
Stat Scaling: Yes
Special attribute: Poison chance on hit, if applicable.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2016, 08:02:05 pm
Spoiler: Liquid Ocean (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on October 27, 2016, 09:40:41 pm
Ouroboropolis. The city of the dead. Congealed clot of sin born of ancient fire and carrying the echoes of mankind's former glory. It mocks the world with visions of our former power, twisted into a bulwark against us. It crawls forth from a time now reduced to myth by countless years, a ruin of lost civilizations, filled with nothing but malice for those that still survive. And so it walks the earth, drawn towards any concentration of humanity like a moth towards a flame.
We have fought it. Armies have been brought against it. War machines, explosives, flame and acid. Thousands, hundreds of thousands. Neatly furrowed rows of gleaming armor and sharpened steel. Mankind has throw itself against Ouro like the waves against the coast, and it has broken us every time. It has broken you. The bodies, the metal, the souls of those that fought are dragged into Ouro; nothing is left behind, and you are no exception. Your mortal flesh is gone but your soul is trapped; a strangely solid spirit, the last vestiges of your mind and humanity coalesced into a body. You exist only here, in this hateful wandering hellmouth, you cannot escape it. You have only two choices: let your soul be ground down, cut apart and fed upon by the demons of this place and lose what little remains of yourself, or press forward and cut your way to the heart of this beast. The only way out, is through.
....
You stand now on the very outer edge of Ouro, on its outer shell. You're standing on a pier of sorts, which juts out of the shell. A chunk of asphalt, the remains of a former parking lot, now hanging, suspended just above the slowly advancing soil, jutting out of the patchwork concrete flesh of Oro's outer shell. It sags when trod upon and scrapes the ground, threatening to collapse. The leading edge of the asphalt pier is twisted, bent toward the ground and caked in dried mud and dust, while the trailing edge has big rebar pins driven into it, each of which trails a section of chain. Some of the chains are empty, some hold bodies, or parts of bodies, which are dragged along and slowly ground away into nothing but a thousand mile long smear. Behind you is a vague and shadowy world, as though looking at a desert through a thick fog. It is a world that no longer belongs to you.
Ahead is an arch of sorts, and the shell of Ouro. Ouro's form is difficult to discern, something like a giant pill bug, but too big to be grasped from where you're standing. Instead, all you see is a great wall of debris; a chaotic patchwork of concrete, metal, half destroyed structures, vehicles, trash and burning oil. It stretches up and up, you tilt your head far backwards just to see the top. Among the chaos of the construction, you can make out what look like purposefully constructed structures: walkways, ladders, and buildings all clinging to the shell. This path, through the gate, seems to lead up to the shell and perhaps to these structures.
Post by: Egan_BW on October 27, 2016, 09:50:04 pm
Search the pier for any alternate routes, besides the main gate.
Spoiler: lickwid (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on October 28, 2016, 09:09:18 am
I move towards the obvious entrance slowly and cautiously, looking around for possible unplesant suprises.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on October 28, 2016, 03:34:16 pm
I move forward as well, checking out teh surroundings: checking for hostiles first, then for things behaving oddly (like the scrap that moved on it's own in the factory.)
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on October 28, 2016, 03:50:46 pm
Post by: Beirus on October 28, 2016, 04:11:07 pm
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on October 28, 2016, 04:36:40 pm
Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 28, 2016, 10:01:09 pm
And oops, forgot to switch my dex and speed.
Post by: piecewise on October 29, 2016, 10:47:14 pm
Liquid Ocean does a "well what is it" pose.You walk to the edge of the pier and lower yourself down towards the dirt, as though lowering yourself into a bath, testing the temperature with a toe. When your toe touches the desolate earth it is scraped away as though you pressed it against a power sander. (-1 hp on right foot) You yank your foot back and stare at the bleeding toe tip, grimacing. You don't feel any pain, but the idea of grinding your foot off is still viscerally unpleasant. You walk the perimeter of the pier, leaving a small trail of blood behind as you do. There really is no way off this thing other than to walk forward. Well, beyond trying to make some sort of suicidal jump to some other part of the shell, but it really just all goes the same place.
Search the pier for any alternate routes, besides the main gate.Spoiler: lickwid (click to show/hide)
Practice herd mentality and go with the largest group. Which seems to be going towards the entrance. Stay cautious, and be close to the shadows in case a surprise-attackable enemy appears.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Keep an eye out for enemies or other threats, or anything interesting, while approaching the entrance with the others.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
"It's already happened."
I move forward as well, checking out teh surroundings: checking for hostiles first, then for things behaving oddly (like the scrap that moved on it's own in the factory.)Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
"Welp, this is happening."
I move towards the obvious entrance slowly and cautiously, looking around for possible unplesant suprises.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
The pier leads to a small section of sidewalk, running perpendicular to the path, the first part on Ouro's actual body. This leads immediately to a set of concrete stairs; complete with slowly sloping wheelchair ramp on one side. At the top of this short staircase is a gateway, or rather an arch, as there is no gate for it to hold. It is made of streetlights, braided, twisted and knotted together erratically, like the mindless searching roots of a metallic mangrove. It's as thick as a man's waist and 4 or 5 meters high, with long straight “legs” and a harsh, nearly triangular arch. Hanging down from the arch, and pinned or wire-wrapped to the legs, are corpses. From their attire- the ornate designs of their robes, the ritual fetishes and symbols hanging from leather cords around their necks or on beaded bracelets, the holy books nailed to their hands or chests- you can surmise that they are religious men. Priests, monks, cenobites and acolytes of unknown orders and forgotten gods. Any shrine they worshiped at, any idol they bowed to, is long gone, ground to dust beneath Ouro's advance.
Papering the arch, nearly coating it like fragile yellowed autumn leaves, are talismans, scrolls and sheets of carefully illuminated text. They are nailed straight into the metal, straight into the corpses as well.
Beyond the gate is a building on its side and tilted at a slight angle, a rising slope of brickwork surrounded by crushed and partial structures, a red island wreathed by a dry reef of pulverized concrete. A sign is still bolted to the wall-turned-floor; its’ a sheet of metal with the name “MALTSOM'S SLAUG-” painted on it in badly faded blue and yellow, with one end scrapped to the point of illegibility. Thick trail of noxious black grime leads from the gate- congealed blood, bone marrow, viscera decayed to slop, human fat and grease, all mixed together as countless bodies were dragged across the brickwork. Straight ahead, next to a rising wall of Oro's body, is a pit.
It's hard to tell if the demons made this hole to hold bodies, or if they simply piled so many in one place that the wall gave way. Regardless of its origins, before you sits a sinkhole of flesh. What must be hundreds of corpses- men, women, cattle, pigs, horses, even deer, boars and wild things- have been stuffed into hole in the building some 20 foot wide. Some are fresh, most are not. Their flesh is bloated and discolored, oozing and melting into one another, becoming a necrotic stew. Animals of all kinds feed from the pit, swarming in great numbers. Rats scuttle around your feet, crows and carrion birds circle overhead or sit upon any flat surface, waiting to charge in and squawkily fight over choice bits of eyes or entrails. Flies infest the air like a buzzing miasma and maggots crawl so thick over and through the flesh that the dead seem to squirm and shiver.
There are demons there, gathered around it. 3 of them; picking at the pile, searching through the gore. Two of these demons are man-dog things. 7 foot tall, easily, with a vaguely humanoid body but horribly distorted proportions. They has digitigrade legs with angles so hard that they seem stuck in a constant state of squatting; their entire lower body seems as though it has been compacted down. In contrast their upper body is abnormally long, the chest stretched and curved into an elongated hunchback appearance. The shoulders are wide and heavily muscled, leading to grotesquely long arms that could easily drag along the ground if allowed to hang slack. Their hands are huge, large enough to wrap their thumb and pointer finger around a man's chest, and their neck is absurdly long and serpentine, ending in a head like a hairless, earless dog. Their mouth is oversized for the head, twisted into a constant beartrap-grin, and their head and neck wriggle and coil constantly. Next to the dog creatures is what appears to be a partially fleshed human skeleton. But it is not fleshed normally; no familiar anatomical structures, just crudely affixed muscles with no meaningful configuration and an unfinished covering of stitched together skin. No organs are visible anywhere on or in the skeleton, and indeed its entire face is covered by a single slab of meat and skin.
Post by: Ozarck on October 29, 2016, 11:06:05 pm
"Two dog demons and a corpse demon. fantastic. Well, at least this time there are five of us. So, you guys wanna kill them and move on, or try to go around?"
Oz will prepare to shoot the corpse demon with his Revolver.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on October 29, 2016, 11:26:02 pm
Make two attacks, one each to the grinning dogs.
Spoiler: lickwid (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on October 29, 2016, 11:33:39 pm
Attack the healthiest demon with my Glaive.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on October 30, 2016, 05:25:34 am
I'll ready my bow from the rear, but not immediately fire, instead serving an overwatch role. I'll watch what is happening to my teammates, and for unhappy surprises or if they make a mistake that leaves them open. I will fire to disrupt such an attack, hopefully giving my teammate an extra instant to get out of trouble. My aimpoint will be for either the limb making the attack I need to disrupt, or for center of mass of the target if I can't get a clear shot on the limb.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on October 30, 2016, 01:30:06 pm
Post by: Ozarck on October 30, 2016, 04:22:24 pm
multi-attacks require a speed roll. Second attack is difficulty 100, third is 120, etc.))
Post by: Lenglon on October 30, 2016, 04:52:47 pm
((targeted attacks [aiming for a specific part] have a -30 to-hit modifier((I'm willing to accept the -30))
multi-attacks require a speed roll. Second attack is difficulty 100, third is 120, etc.))
Post by: piecewise on October 31, 2016, 02:40:04 pm
Post by: Whisperling on October 31, 2016, 03:12:13 pm
Whisperling~...
((Whoops, sorry. Opened this in a background tab and had completely forgotten to actually write the action.))
Hide in the shadow of the building until one of the demons gets close enough to surprise-attack, then assault whichever is most convenient. Get out of sight again afterwards, if at all possible.
Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 01, 2016, 01:24:25 am
"Bear Trap jaws ...." Minnow shudders, a recent memory squirming around in his head.
"Two dog demons and a corpse demon. fantastic. Well, at least this time there are five of us. So, you guys wanna kill them and move on, or try to go around?"
Oz will prepare to shoot the corpse demon with his Revolver.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
"Come on and face me, demons!"
Make two attacks, one each to the grinning dogs.Spoiler: lickwid (click to show/hide)
"Get some!"
Attack the healthiest demon with my Glaive.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
As we went through the arch, I would have stopped to see what was written on the papers, no touching them, just glancing at them and seeing if I could pick out any words or phrases at a glance.
I'll ready my bow from the rear, but not immediately fire, instead serving an overwatch role. I'll watch what is happening to my teammates, and for unhappy surprises or if they make a mistake that leaves them open. I will fire to disrupt such an attack, hopefully giving my teammate an extra instant to get out of trouble. My aimpoint will be for either the limb making the attack I need to disrupt, or for center of mass of the target if I can't get a clear shot on the limb.Edit: Thank you for the reminder AoshimaSpoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Whisperling~...
((Whoops, sorry. Opened this in a background tab and had completely forgotten to actually write the action.))
Hide in the shadow of the building until one of the demons gets close enough to surprise-attack, then assault whichever is most convenient. Get out of sight again afterwards, if at all possible.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Rolls (click to show/hide)
The skeletal creature notices your group at the gate an instant after you notice it. It stands bolt upright and sprints straight toward the group at inhuman speed, covering over a hundred feet in just over a second. It runs straight up into Minnow's face and slices madly at him with a carving knife, jamming the blade into the fine mechanical workings of Minnow's right arm and hacking at his firearm foot. The Skeleton moves in a jerking, spasmodic way, like a knife fighter having a seizure. Minnow can't do much more than cower away from the flurry of blows.
Lickwid (Sp?), armed with a dagger specifically designed for cunning assassinations, shoulders past Minnow and sprints straight over to the pile of bodies. He circles around the pit, over toward the Grinning Dog on the right. He lashes out with a twirl, the blade nothing but a crescent moon of silver light cleaving through the grinning dog's gut. The creature makes a high pitched squeal as it is severed cleanly in half and falls to the ground, the upper half still alive. Lickwid continues his balletic attack, spinning around and bringing his blade towards the other grinning dog with a triumphant shout. He misses by a wide margin, and Grinning dog proceeds to jam a serrated spear straight into Lickwid's open mouth. It slams Lickwid to the ground and then tears the spear back up, pulling his head off. It looks at the skewered head and its lips peel back into an even more exaggerated grin as it laughs with an inhuman, hyena like cackle.
Whisperling...seems to frankly not understand the description of the area. There's no building to hide in the shadow of. The only building here is the Maltsom one and its literally laying on its side and everyone is standing atop this side. In terms of close demons though, the Flesh miser is close and otherwise engaged, so he decides to attack it. He steps up beside Minnow and lunges forward, stabbing the gold tracer into the skeleton's chest with hall his might. The blade penetrates straight through and out the creature's back. It makes a dusty, crunching noise and staggers back, pulling the blade out of itself.
Oz, seeing an instant to escape the Flesh Miser's attacks, backpedals and then does his best to aim his weapon. This is quite hard considering the weapon is his foot, but he makes due (+30 dex for aim next round)
Merris, before any of this crap happened, pauses for a moment to look at the pages coating the profane gate. He (she?) squints at the text, trying to understand it, but can't make heads or tails of it. From there he runs up and takes up position at the rear of the group, an arrow nocked and ready to fire at a moment's notice.
Joe, seeing what happened to Lickwid, charges in towards the demon that killed his comrade. He sweeps his glaive low, cleaving a massive gash into the demon's left leg, nearly severing the limb. The demon growls and limps backward a few steps, its face still set in a horrible grin.
Grinning dog 1, lacking its entire lower body, props itself up as best it can. It winds up and hurls its spear at Merris as hard as it possibly can. Merris, seeing this coming, fires back at it reflexively. The arrow and spear pass each other in mid-air before each strikes home. The spear hits Merris square in the lower left arm and severs the limb right at the elbow, meanwhile the arrow hits the demon dead center in the left shoulder and sends it toppling over backwards. The second Grinning dog turns its attention to Joe and strikes out with its spear, but Joe easily side steps the stab.
Check the rolls section, update your sheets.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 01, 2016, 01:35:35 am
RIPIRIPIRIPIP liquid ocean
Hmm, might have been a good idea to spend humanity on that multiattack.
Post by: Lenglon on November 01, 2016, 09:13:18 am
Same action, keep my distance and overwatch the team. however, if my attack is triggered, i will spend 20 humanity on the speed roll to interrupt, and am doing a called shot on the attacking limb. If I am charged I am willing to abort my attack to run and stay out of range, assuming it isn't too fast to escape. if it is that fast, I might as well try to fight since there's no escape.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 01, 2016, 06:45:31 pm
Impale whichever monster looks most distracted (in hopes of getting a sneak attack in, of course). Maybe something that's already dodging an arrow? Burn 16 humanity in a dodge roll if it looks like a particularly nasty attack is coming my way.
Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 01, 2016, 06:59:01 pm
Attack the same demon with my Glaive.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 01, 2016, 07:23:55 pm
And of course the dangerous one would be super fast and target me personally, with double roll multi attacks. Looks like I should have conditioned my statement: if attacked, hit with arm.
Take thirty corruption to increase my dex to avoid this bastard's attacks
Spoiler: obsolete action (click to show/hide)
I'll shoot the flesh miser, unless I lose my gun, in which case I'll attack with the weapon.
if the flesh miser dies before I shoot, I'll shoot the closest dog demon.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 03, 2016, 12:06:00 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The flesh miser turns away from Minnow and begins flailing madly at Merris. But Merris is having none of it and proceeds to easily dance through the skeleton's blows before dodging backwards and loosing an arrow with his teeth. The shot tears the Skeleton's left arm off and pins it to the ground. Both grinning dogs turn on Joe; he dodges the spear but catches a claw from the dying demon and loses half of his left arm.
Minnow, seeing an opening, takes a potshot at the injured skeleton demon, putting a bullet straight into the skeleton's stump. The shot splits the limb in half and burrows straight through into the chest, exploding the ripcage and killing the beast.
Merris...well he nocks another arrow and stands around, waiting.
Joe takes a hard swing at one of the Grinning Dogs but misses by an inch. However, his attack draws the demon's attention and Whisper slips in behind it. In a single stroke he splits the demon's chest in half and kills the beast instantly.
Post by: Lenglon on November 03, 2016, 12:35:50 am
keep my distance and overwatch the team. however, if my attack is triggered, i will spend 20 humanity on the speed roll to interrupt, and am doing a called shot on the attacking limb. If I am charged I am willing to abort my attack to run and stay out of range, assuming it isn't too fast to escape. if it is that fast, I might as well try to fight since there's no escape.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 03, 2016, 05:20:06 pm
If he sees a part with 15-25 hp, he will attempt to transfer that hp to his damaged clockwork arm. He won't do this with the demon's arm, though.
After this, if there's time this round, he'll also inspect the dog demons' corpses.
Anyone want an arm?
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 03, 2016, 05:26:22 pm
Attack the last demon with my Glaive. Search for a replacement arm if I can.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 03, 2016, 11:39:24 pm
Impale whichever monster looks most distracted (in hopes of getting a sneak attack in, of course). Maybe something that's already dodging an arrow? Burn 16 humanity in a dodge roll if it looks like a particularly nasty attack is coming my way.
If it isn't... maybe take the skeleton arm? Depends on how exactly part attachment rolls work, I don't want to lose an arm to low INT.
Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 04, 2016, 01:32:55 am
If the last demon is still alive, rinse and repeat.((Please wait on looting until combat is complete, especially since we have wounded who need replacement parts more than you need a surplus one.))Impale whichever monster looks most distracted (in hopes of getting a sneak attack in, of course). Maybe something that's already dodging an arrow? Burn 16 humanity in a dodge roll if it looks like a particularly nasty attack is coming my way.
If it isn't... maybe take the skeleton arm? Depends on how exactly part attachment rolls work, I don't want to lose an arm to low INT.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 04, 2016, 01:44:16 am
Post by: Whisperling on November 04, 2016, 05:31:56 am
If the last demon is still alive, rinse and repeat.((Please wait on looting until combat is complete, especially since we have wounded who need replacement parts more than you need a surplus one.))Impale whichever monster looks most distracted (in hopes of getting a sneak attack in, of course). Maybe something that's already dodging an arrow? Burn 16 humanity in a dodge roll if it looks like a particularly nasty attack is coming my way.
If it isn't... maybe take the skeleton arm? Depends on how exactly part attachment rolls work, I don't want to lose an arm to low INT.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
((Sure. Will probably end up wasting the turn, but whatever.))
Post by: Ozarck on November 04, 2016, 03:55:45 pm
Oh, and if you place an arm outside of the normal slots, it will give 4x permanent corruption, per part, so if you placed a third arm, and each part had 5 corruption (for 15 total for the whole arm) you would get 60 permanent corruption and immediately become a demon, because that is more than your humanity max.
If you replaced your regular arm instead, that doesn't apply, but both require intelligence rolls to harvest and to attach.))
((Hey, where's your selfish spirit? Ann Rand would be disappointed in you! :P))I don't know who that is, so I'll accept your claim, but I know Ayn rand would also be disappointed. She'd probably just raise and drop her shoulders, and idly turn to the next page in her book of maps, though.))
Post by: piecewise on November 04, 2016, 08:29:24 pm
Yep that Grinning dog died of its injuries.
Merris continues her action from before, since it was a triggered action that didn't trigger, and so she will hopefully be automatically the very first in the action order. reposting said action below:You stand around, keeping an arrow nocked and ready to fire the instant a threat comes into sight.keep my distance and overwatch the team. however, if my attack is triggered, i will spend 20 humanity on the speed roll to interrupt, and am doing a called shot on the attacking limb. If I am charged I am willing to abort my attack to run and stay out of range, assuming it isn't too fast to escape. if it is that fast, I might as well try to fight since there's no escape.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Minnow examines the flesh miser's corpse. And it's weapon, which he'll pick up.
If he sees a part with 15-25 hp, he will attempt to transfer that hp to his damaged clockwork arm. He won't do this with the demon's arm, though.
After this, if there's time this round, he'll also inspect the dog demons' corpses.
Anyone want an arm?Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
The Miser's corpse, or whats left of it, looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So the skeletal lower leg looks alright.
80+[96] = Success. You drain the demonic energy from the corpse and into your clockwork limb. The broken gears and awkwardly clacking mechanisms slip back into place, their movements going from jerky to smooth.
40+[45]
Nope, not fast enough to go look at the dogs after fixing your arm.
Well, they're all dead now so you start scavenging the bodies, looking for something useful.
Attack the last demon with my Glaive. Search for a replacement arm if I can.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: This is what is left over of the two dogs (click to show/hide)
Anything out of those bodies might work.
If the last demon is still alive, rinse and repeat.Welp, guess you just hang around.Impale whichever monster looks most distracted (in hopes of getting a sneak attack in, of course). Maybe something that's already dodging an arrow? Burn 16 humanity in a dodge roll if it looks like a particularly nasty attack is coming my way.
If it isn't... maybe take the skeleton arm? Depends on how exactly part attachment rolls work, I don't want to lose an arm to low INT.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 04, 2016, 08:49:59 pm
Questions:
1)Do I take corruption for using the porcelain head's int for that roll? Assuming yes.
2)I healed up 50 hp from the skeletal lower leg? Assuming yes.
3)How does exchanging a whole limb work? Will it be three rolls at increasing difficulty to exchange all three? Assuming yes.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 04, 2016, 10:13:25 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 04, 2016, 10:28:12 pm
Loot a left lower arm and hand from one of the demons.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 05, 2016, 07:36:35 pm
41+[43]=84
Loot a left lower arm and hand from one of the demons.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
You attempt to tear the bits from the corpse but just end up chopping it to useless pieces.
Loot dog left arm to replace lost left arm.46+[46]= 92Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
You attempt to tear the left arm off the demon but do nothing more than rend it to pieces.
Action: meditate to remove corruptionDid you use it? Is that number you have as your Int (ie 80) using that bonus? If so, then yes.
Questions:
1)Do I take corruption for using the porcelain head's int for that roll? Assuming yes.
2)I healed up 50 hp from the skeletal lower leg? Assuming yes.
3)How does exchanging a whole limb work? Will it be three rolls at increasing difficulty to exchange all three? Assuming yes.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Actually, you only got, at most, 44 HP. Remember, when you heal like that it requires you to say how much HP you want to drain because that impacts the roll you need. 4x the HP you're draining. I assumed you drained enough to heal your arm and thats it.
Exchanging a whole limb would work either by doing one roll with a difficulty equal to the max difficulty (ie for 3 pieces it would be 140) or you could do 3 rolls of 100.
You reduce your corruption by 10
Post by: Ozarck on November 05, 2016, 10:07:19 pm
I will meditate to remove corruption one more round.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 06, 2016, 12:21:37 am
Mechanics show no difference between left and right arms, so...
loot dog arm to replace lost arm, spend up to 20 corruption to make sure I do it right this time.
Post by: Ozarck on November 06, 2016, 10:36:08 am
Post by: piecewise on November 06, 2016, 02:51:01 pm
Post by: Beirus on November 06, 2016, 03:02:36 pm
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on November 06, 2016, 03:29:40 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 06, 2016, 03:38:10 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on November 06, 2016, 03:50:10 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 06, 2016, 04:31:11 pm
Whisperling: Go play with the sandpaper room. With his entire left arm.
((Yeah, don't do that.))
Keep standing around while people loot. Give the person grabbing and arm a hand, if helping is possible.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 06, 2016, 04:59:34 pm
There seems to be a sudden lack of people around here...Hey, I can always make another character.
Post by: piecewise on November 06, 2016, 09:35:40 pm
I had specified to heal up to 25 hp, so I'll adjust accordingly. as for fully healing my arm, well, it had taken 82 damage, so that would have required a difficulty roll of 368, which is slightly out of my range.10 More down.
I will meditate to remove corruption one more round.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
...46+20+[95] Pass
Mechanics show no difference between left and right arms, so...
loot dog arm to replace lost arm, spend up to 20 corruption to make sure I do it right this time.
You carefully tear away the remaining chunk of your arm and it immediately crumbles away into dust as soon as it leaves your body. That done, you pull off the Grinning dog's arm right at the shoulder and press the still warm flesh up against your bare socket. The two lumps of flesh pull together as though by magnetic force and fuse. The dog's arm is much longer than your normal human one and the knuckles drag the ground as you walk.
Loot the other lower arm and hand separately from the demon.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Two rolls of 100 then.Whisperling: Go play with the sandpaper room. With his entire left arm.
((Yeah, don't do that.))
Keep standing around while people loot. Give the person grabbing and arm a hand, if helping is possible.
41+[50]
41+[56]
You continue to shred apart limbs and by my reckoning I don't think there are any dog arms left at this point. We started with 4, and 3 have been rendered useless mush by the clumsy, stupid fingers of the less than bright. The fourth now sits upon Lenglon's arm. But, seeing as Whisperling wanted to help and how he has a slightly higher int score at 45, I'm gonna assume that after you fucked up the first roll and lost the lower arm, he stepped in and got this roll
45+[56]
and managed to save the hand. Where you want to put it, or if you want to try again and get maybe a nice shin to act as a lower arm, thats up to you.
Post by: Ozarck on November 06, 2016, 10:20:11 pm
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 06, 2016, 10:49:27 pm
Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 06, 2016, 11:49:16 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 07, 2016, 12:36:34 am
Rest, recover from corruption.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Keep helping people who want to salvage and/or attach parts.Spoiler: I should probably consider giving this guy a name. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Meditate.45+[60]=FailSpoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Oz and Leng, you both lose 10 corruption, but Whisper, you gain something. Specifically, as you skirt your way around the horrible pit of semi-fluid human tissue and corpses and over to your teammates, you take a cinderblock square in the head. It does 35 damage, collapses your skull and leaves your head looking like a raw egg someone has half smashed; all bits of broken skull and viscous goo leaking out. You're not really sure exactly where it came from, except that it came from somewhere up on the shell of Ouro.
At this point I'll tell you whats around here:
The Maltsom building extends out in both directions, left and right away from the corpse pit. This is to the left.
A trail of black grime leads from the pit to here, and is quickly lost in the brown sludge of melted fat, soot and ash that covers the ground. Along this edge of the building is a fire, a bed of flame and ash 4 meters long and a meter and 2 wide. It's not wood thats being burnt, but plastic and styrofoam, brightly colored bottles of cleaning solution, buckets of paint, jerry cans of gas and plastic cases of rubbing alcohol. The flame is wild and the smoke rising from it is thick, black and acrid, a haze of toxic fumes and half burnt accelerants that stings the eyes and chokes the lungs.
There are creatures by this roasting spit that can only be described as lumps of flesh. They have no shared form, no symmetry or distinct shape, they're nothing but globs of flesh, bone and entrails formed into vaguely arthropod configurations. Like cockroaches made from cadaver parts. They seem completely oblivious of you.
To the right is some kind of gathering place, judging by the crude metal chairs and the great, long, slab of a table stretching diagonally away from the pit and toward the shell proper. There's a good deal of blood dried around and on the table, as well as countless bits of gristle, bone, skin and organic detritus. Luckily the place is abandoned.
Post by: Lenglon on November 07, 2016, 01:30:44 am
((Oh, and um, does she gain dex from the dog arm? do I note that on her charsheet? I figure since you were on the "use demon parts" round you'd know how that stuff works and what I need to do to make her sheet accurate.))
Post by: Parisbre56 on November 07, 2016, 11:20:23 am
Post by: Beirus on November 07, 2016, 11:23:27 am
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kedly on November 07, 2016, 03:23:15 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 07, 2016, 04:36:02 pm
This post is to aid Lenglon in calculating her sheet. I'll have an action turn soon.
((Oz, could you help me calculate Merris's corruption level, assuming she does nothing affecting her corruption level this turn? I don't know the current math system for it, but you seem to know how your corruption level works so...))Sure thing.
((Oh, and um, does she gain dex from the dog arm? do I note that on her charsheet? I figure since you were on the "use demon parts" round you'd know how that stuff works and what I need to do to make her sheet accurate.))
Spoiler: First, the corruption (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: limb stats and how to add them to the sheet. (click to show/hide)
@Whisperling: your head has 15 hp left. You should name your guy Squish.
Post by: Lenglon on November 07, 2016, 05:05:10 pm
Upon noticing the attack upon my teammate, I ready my bow and look in the direction it came from, readyto return fire or evade as needed.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 07, 2016, 05:12:58 pm
@ Lenglon: No problem. You should add your stat bonus next to your normal stat as well. that's so PW can see it at a glance. he requested that in the previous test.
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 07, 2016, 05:16:19 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 07, 2016, 06:07:38 pm
Post by: Beirus on November 07, 2016, 06:34:49 pm
Post by: piecewise on November 07, 2016, 07:58:24 pm
Burn 20 corruption to take one of the shins from the grinning demon corpses.41+20+[85] You carefully reassemble your limb using the shin and the hand of the demon canine.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Piecewise. is there no corruption cost associated with the mancatcher paw?Call it 2 corruption.
This post is to aid Lenglon in calculating her sheet. I'll have an action turn soon.((Oz, could you help me calculate Merris's corruption level, assuming she does nothing affecting her corruption level this turn? I don't know the current math system for it, but you seem to know how your corruption level works so...))Sure thing.
((Oh, and um, does she gain dex from the dog arm? do I note that on her charsheet? I figure since you were on the "use demon parts" round you'd know how that stuff works and what I need to do to make her sheet accurate.))Spoiler: First, the corruption (click to show/hide)Spoiler: limb stats and how to add them to the sheet. (click to show/hide)
@Whisperling: your head has 15 hp left. You should name your guy Squish.
Minnow will scan Ouro's shell for threats. If this is an Int roll, I will be using base stat. If i can do so this round as well, I will replace my left hand with the skeletal hand from the miser, using the stat bonus and taking 15 corruption. This will destroy 1/3 of my writhe of flesh spell. Will that deactivate it and remove the malus from my int?55+[67]
@ Lenglon: No problem. You should add your stat bonus next to your normal stat as well. that's so PW can see it at a glance. he requested that in the previous test.Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
You look around, scanning from the ramshackle table over to the shell. There's a ladder bolted to the crumbling concrete facade of the shell, which leads up several stories, stopping occasionally at a small landing or metal outcropping before reaching a structure far above. On one of these metal outcroppings you see something; a demon of some kind. You can't make out much of what it looks like, but from what you can see it looks like some sort of spider holding cinder blocks in several hands.
Thank you very much OzMinnow points up at the shell and you follow his finger. You see the brick wielding demon just as it launches another brick down at your group.
Upon noticing the attack upon my teammate, I ready my bow and look in the direction it came from, readyto return fire or evade as needed.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
99 + [44]
You take snap aim at the falling brick and fire an arrow, catching the falling block right on one corner. The force of the shot is enough to deflect the brick by a few feet and send it slamming into the ground near you, rather than on your head.
Post by: Whisperling on November 07, 2016, 08:16:55 pm
I specified that my core should be in my chest at the start, but move it if that wasn't something I could do.
Try and climb up to the demon, if there's any time left.
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 07, 2016, 08:30:54 pm
I'll climb up to attack it with my clockwork arm and sword. If Squish(whisperling) is ahead of me, I'll follow at a bit of a distance, so as not to be in the way when he falls off the ladders.
((I'm going to constantly be too corrupt to absorb parts. I really wanted to replace my useless spell arm. Or at least my gun leg. ah well.))
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Beirus, your arm should look more or less like this:
Left arm (+5 spd, 3 corruption [+2 for attack with the paw]
1.upper (19 HP)
2.Crouched Lupine Lower leg {3] (50 HP [+5 Speed])
3. Man-Catching Paw {2}(20 HP, [Grasp][End])
Lenglon, note the corruption cost associated with the mancatching paw.((feel free to argue the gm away from it. I was only asking for clarity.))
Post by: Lenglon on November 07, 2016, 09:49:10 pm
Also, um, since there is a cost to using the mancatching claw hand now, the overall price of using my left arm has gone up by 33% (6 to 8 ) with no corrosponding benefits (still for 10 dex). are you sure?
"On it!"
temp action if no response before turn is run: return fire, 2x attack, using both arms.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 08, 2016, 12:01:08 pm
Catch up with the others. Climb up to attack that demon with my Glaive if the others are still fighting it.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 09, 2016, 07:29:18 pm
"Whoops, got stunned for a minute there. Suppose a brick to the face can do that to you."It's in your chest, don't worry. It's only in your head if you don't specify.
I specified that my core should be in my chest at the start, but move it if that wasn't something I could do.
Try and climb up to the demon, if there's any time left.Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
You push what is left of your forehead back out of your eyes and run across the overturned building and start climbing the ladder...
GM: I need to perform an action that is directly counter to the current combat system - supressive fire. If I make a very high number of attack actions, I will simply open myself to a counterattack and it will do anything but the intended supressive effect. How can I make supression a thing? anothered triggered action?The cost associated with demon limbs only comes into play if you use their bonuses. So unless you use your +10 dex from the limb, it costs nothing to just use it for stuff. Think of it as powering up the limb.
Also, um, since there is a cost to using the mancatching claw hand now, the overall price of using my left arm has gone up by 33% (6 to 8 ) with no corrosponding benefits (still for 10 dex). are you sure?
"On it!"
temp action if no response before turn is run: return fire, 2x attack, using both arms.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
99+[56] (assuming not using corruption)
As squish climbs the ladder, you spot the demon moving to throw another stone. You draw the bowstring back and aim high, carefully estimating the arrow drop before loosing a shot. The arrow whistles upward, arching shallowly before coming down and knocking the brick right out of the creature's hands. The demon squeals and skitters back out of sight.
...Squish scrambles his way up to the metal outcropping and yanks himself up to confront the demon. The outcropping is clearly part of a scavenged fire escape, just a square metal platform with low railings that have been reinforced with metal plates and scrap. The floor is dark red, rusted through in several spots, and absolutely coated in what looks like white dust. Cinderblocks are piled into crude pyramids in the corners of the outcropping, along with red bricks and bits of rebar. At the center of the platform is what looks like a spider mixed with a man. The head is human, ancient and decrepit, with a long white beard that seems to seamlessly fuse with the wrappings of silk that cover the rest of his body. The chest and front arms are human as well, though the human limbs are so sunken and feeble that they look almost vestigal, held up against the bony, frail chest. But the lower body, everything below the ribs, is spider: A great swollen gray abdomen covered in prickly hairs and sprouting 8 long, powerful limbs that end in snapping scorpion pincers. It looks at you with wide eyed terror mixed with incredulity.
"GO BACK!" It screams, picking up another cinderblock, "GET AWAY!"
Cover me. Keep it from hitting me.
I'll climb up to attack it with my clockwork arm and sword. If Squish(whisperling) is ahead of me, I'll follow at a bit of a distance, so as not to be in the way when he falls off the ladders.
((I'm going to constantly be too corrupt to absorb parts. I really wanted to replace my useless spell arm. Or at least my gun leg. ah well.))Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Beirus, your arm should look more or less like this:
Left arm (+5 spd, 3 corruption [+2 for attack with the paw]
1.upper (19 HP)
2.Crouched Lupine Lower leg {3] (50 HP [+5 Speed])
3. Man-Catching Paw {2}(20 HP, [Grasp][End])
Lenglon, note the corruption cost associated with the mancatching paw.((feel free to argue the gm away from it. I was only asking for clarity.))
Catch up with the others. Climb up to attack that demon with my Glaive if the others are still fighting it.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
You two climb up behind Squish, clambering up onto the platform with him. As you pull yourself up, the platform groans with the combined weight of everyone on it and lists slightly to one side.
Post by: Ozarck on November 09, 2016, 08:54:49 pm
I'll get on the ladder above the outcropping to avoid overloading the landing. If the spider attacks, I will wait for the other two to act, and then, if i get a clear shot, will fire at the spider. If I fall, I will spend corruption to either catch myself, or to soften the blow when I land - up to 40 corruption. I will attempt to land on my demon revolver and take the damage up that leg first. If the demon agrees to come down, I will keep it targeted as it descends, only moving down again once it and the other two are on the ground.
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 09, 2016, 09:12:33 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 11, 2016, 10:14:43 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2016, 11:39:04 am
Post by: Beirus on November 11, 2016, 12:31:43 pm
Attack the demon if it attacks us. Otherwise, try to meditate and reduce corruption.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 11, 2016, 01:14:39 pm
Surprise-attack the demon while it is focused on a teammate. Try and aim for the spider portions.
((Will edit sheets in when I'm not on mobile.))
Post by: piecewise on November 11, 2016, 06:11:06 pm
...Yeah? I'm dead, remember?Meant berius, sorry.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Spider Creature squeals incoherently, and shambles forward, snapping at Squish with its pincers. Squish easily evades the first blow and slaps the second aside with the handle of his glaive before burying the blade in the creature's spidery lower half. It screams and oozes ichor as it scrambles backwards. As this happens, Minnow sprints past the beast and climbs a few rungs up the ladder behind it. Joe tries to follow his counter with another blow but misses. Squish, taking advantage of the confusion, slips behind the demon and cleanly cleaves one of its legs straight off. Minnow, from his ladder vantage point, takes aim at the demon and somehow manages to completely miss from point blank range.
Meanwhile, back down at the body pit, Merris is poking around. He cuts one of his arrows out of the upper half of a grinning dog and examines it with a grimace. The head is broken, snapped clean in half, and the shaft is cracked from the force of the shot. He tosses it away and starts looking around for anything that could be used as a good substitute. He is immediately drawn to the Flesh Miser and its nice, femurs and humerus. He picks a long bone up and carefully examines it. He conculdes that, with a knife and some time, he could probably make some arrows out of the bones of these beasts, and really, probably the body parts of anything with bones or sections long enough to fit the need.
Post by: Ozarck on November 11, 2016, 07:52:41 pm
Again, if I fall, I will spend corruption to either catch myself, or to soften the blow when I land - up to 20 corruption. I will attempt to land on my demon revolver and take the damage up that leg first.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 11, 2016, 07:57:06 pm
If the fight shifts to somewhere I have line of sight / line of fire on it (which I'm assuming I currently do not, but if I do then trigger this instead of my above action) then I will fire an arrow at the demon attacking my teammates.
Gender: Female, just tired of seeing "he" and getting confused who is being talked about.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2016, 11:23:51 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 11, 2016, 11:32:15 pm
As my soul dissolves into Oro, it spreads itself thin into every demon, making them all 0.004% more kawaii.Beirus, Whisperling, save us from posts like this. post before this lunatic grows a bunch of bigeyed, blushing, skirted gigglers to destroy us with hugs and sparkles.
Post by: Beirus on November 11, 2016, 11:37:06 pm
Attack the demon again.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 11, 2016, 11:38:53 pm
As my soul dissolves into Oro, it spreads itself thin into every demon, making them all 0.004% more kawaii.Beirus, Whisperling, save us from posts like this. post before this lunatic grows a bunch of bigeyed, blushing, skirted gigglers to destroy us with hugs and sparkles.
Give my obligatory opposition to the kawaiipocalypse.
Continue using the Squish-brand sneak attackTM. Throw 16 corruption into a dodge if I get attacked.
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2016, 11:41:48 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 11, 2016, 11:48:28 pm
It's not much of a kawaiipocalypse. I only have one soul, and 0.004% isn't actually very much.
Of course. But, you see, it sets a precedent, and ORO has a habit of eating armies. If every soul it has consumed takes the opportunity and adds its fraction of a percent, we end up with a world-eating Kawaiidritch horror of doom.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 11, 2016, 11:52:09 pm
Post by: piecewise on November 12, 2016, 06:59:11 pm
-sigh- I'll go ahead and attack with my weapon in my clockwork hand. That'll bring me up to 44 corruption, leaving 29 humanity.
Again, if I fall, I will spend corruption to either catch myself, or to soften the blow when I land - up to 20 corruption. I will attempt to land on my demon revolver and take the damage up that leg first.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
improvise a sack of some kind and take with me a assortment of bones I think I could work with, and a claw or other knife substitute if I find one of those as well. I don't have the time now but I will make the time later, and I need to maintain a steady arrow supply.
If the fight shifts to somewhere I have line of sight / line of fire on it (which I'm assuming I currently do not, but if I do then trigger this instead of my above action) then I will fire an arrow at the demon attacking my teammates.
Gender: Female, just tired of seeing "he" and getting confused who is being talked about.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Attack the demon again.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
As my soul dissolves into Oro, it spreads itself thin into every demon, making them all 0.004% more kawaii.Beirus, Whisperling, save us from posts like this. post before this lunatic grows a bunch of bigeyed, blushing, skirted gigglers to destroy us with hugs and sparkles.
Give my obligatory opposition to the kawaiipocalypse.
Continue using the Squish-brand sneak attackTM. Throw 16 corruption into a dodge if I get attacked.Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
I like the contrast between the two kinds of players in our group. One half is very methodical and sets up big actions with contingencies. The other says "HIT MONSTER MAKE DEAD".
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Merris spends a few minutes attempting to crudely juryrig a sack of of skin, but ends up with nothing but a bloody mass of fur and torn up skin. High above HER, the rest of the group continues to fight against the Spider demon. Minnow, still hanging from the ladder, raises his sword in his clockwork hand. The arm grinds to life, internal mechanisms spinning, winding springs tighter and tighter until the entire limb strains to contain the force. When he swings the arm springs down like a sprung bear trap, the clockwork sword cleaving through one of the creature's legs like butter. The Spider demon, suddenly spins to face Minnow, its face a mask of pain and anger.
"YOU FEED IT! YOU FEED IT!" The demon screams before lashing out with one pincer. It catches Minnow around the chest, wrapping the pincer around his left shoulder and under his right ribs. And then it closes, crushing his chest and splitting it in half. Minnows body falls limp while his clockwork arm, still holding the sword, clangs to the ground and then bounces up, erect and ready to fight.
Joe takes advantage of the Spider's attack and steps in, swinging a hard uppercut swing that bisects one leg and slices straight up through the spider's abdomen, cleaving the human half away from the spider half. Squish follows up as soon as the human section hits the ground, cleaving into the man's shriveled arm.
Post by: Whisperling on November 12, 2016, 07:08:31 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 12, 2016, 07:38:49 pm
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cousin Itt (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Thing (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 12, 2016, 07:49:34 pm
HIT MONSTER MAKE DEAD (with glaive). If the Mason is dead by the time I act, meditate to recover from corruption.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Parisbre56 on November 13, 2016, 06:35:58 am
It's not much of a kawaiipocalypse. I only have one soul, and 0.004% isn't actually very much.((Assuming you are 100% kawaii and kawaii-ness is distributed equally without any being lost, that would mean there are 25000 demons in ORO.))
Post by: NJW2000 on November 13, 2016, 06:40:50 am
This assumes that the demons were as kawaii as Ocean in the first place, which is somewhat improbable.It's not much of a kawaiipocalypse. I only have one soul, and 0.004% isn't actually very much.((Assuming you are 100% kawaii and kawaii-ness is distributed equally without any being lost, that would mean there are 25000 demons in ORO.))
Post by: Ozarck on November 13, 2016, 12:59:59 pm
No, this assumes nothing of the kawaiiness of the other demons. they could be 0% kawaii, and his soul bumped them each up to .004% the only thing it really assumes is that Ouro on the whole is less kawaii than Ocean, else hissoul would either have no effect, or a negative one.This assumes that the demons were as kawaii as Ocean in the first place, which is somewhat improbable.It's not much of a kawaiipocalypse. I only have one soul, and 0.004% isn't actually very much.((Assuming you are 100% kawaii and kawaii-ness is distributed equally without any being lost, that would mean there are 25000 demons in ORO.))
Post by: NJW2000 on November 13, 2016, 01:06:06 pm
As my soul dissolves into Oro, it spreads itself thin into every demon, making them all 0.004% more kawaii.
Percentages are proportions, not units. If they were 0% kawaii, this would leave them as 0% kawaii.
Post by: Lenglon on November 13, 2016, 02:27:39 pm
improvise a sack of some kind and take with me a assortment of bones I think I could work with, and a claw or other knife substitute if I find one of those as well. I don't have the time now but I will make the time later, and I need to maintain a steady arrow supply.same action
If the fight shifts to somewhere I have line of sight / line of fire on it (which I'm assuming I currently do not, but if I do then trigger this instead of my above action) then I will fire an arrow at the demon attacking my teammates.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 13, 2016, 03:29:31 pm
And before you say that Oro's eaten more that 2000 people, remember that PCs must have strong souls, because weaker humans would simply dissipate after first death, and the part that I'm dissolving into is only the core. If you count the whole body, it obviously has many times that soulmass.
Post by: Ozarck on November 13, 2016, 04:18:21 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 13, 2016, 11:48:44 pm
((I assume only the human half is still alive?))
In lieu of a dubiously-informed action, HIT MONSTER MAKE DEAD WITH SLIGHTLY LESS RISK TO PERSON:
Continue using the Squish-brand sneak attackTM. Throw 16 corruption into a dodge if I get attacked.Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on November 14, 2016, 09:56:40 am
Post by: Ozarck on November 14, 2016, 10:42:51 am
(is there a character sheet?)ooc thread please
Post by: piecewise on November 15, 2016, 09:52:56 am
Here's the stuff laying on the ground:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
46+[72]improvise a sack of some kind and take with me a assortment of bones I think I could work with, and a claw or other knife substitute if I find one of those as well. I don't have the time now but I will make the time later, and I need to maintain a steady arrow supply.same action
If the fight shifts to somewhere I have line of sight / line of fire on it (which I'm assuming I currently do not, but if I do then trigger this instead of my above action) then I will fire an arrow at the demon attacking my teammates.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
You get your sack constructed and scavenge as many usable long bones as possible. You get enough for 10 arrows, assuming you don't screw any up.
I examine the demon's corpse, and I absorb 20 health to my upper arm from the weakest of the demon's legs. Gonna spend the next ten turns or so rebuilding.Hmm, well that would probably be the chest of the demon so lets see... 65+[44]= 109 so you get your 20 hp back and destroy the chest.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Cousin Itt (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Thing (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 15, 2016, 09:55:34 am
Post by: Whisperling on November 15, 2016, 11:05:27 am
Meditate to remove corruption if there's any time that would go to waste.
Will edit sheet in when not on mobile.
Post by: Ozarck on November 15, 2016, 05:54:11 pm
If I fail to act in time and Squish steals it, absorb 20 hp from the demonic revolver to my lower arm.
Just hop on down and attach the stretched lupine chest in my chest slot.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
((PW, did I recover any humanity?))10 for the action, then 3 for end of turn.
Use 20 corruption to salvage the porcelain head. Wait a bit to attach it, since that's going to need another roll.That's my head.
Meditate to remove corruption if there's any time that would go to waste.
Will edit sheet in when not on mobile.
Post by: Whisperling on November 15, 2016, 06:00:39 pm
Reattach porcelain head to my chest slot, since there is no chest around to place there.
If I fail to act in time and Squish steals it, absorb 20 hp from the demonic revolver to my lower arm.
Just hop on down and attach the stretched lupine chest in my chest slot.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)((PW, did I recover any humanity?))10 for the action, then 3 for end of turn.Use 20 corruption to salvage the porcelain head. Wait a bit to attach it, since that's going to need another roll.That's my head.
Meditate to remove corruption if there's any time that would go to waste.
Will edit sheet in when not on mobile.
Oh, shoot. Knew that looked weird. You want it back?
Post by: Ozarck on November 15, 2016, 06:08:59 pm
Post by: piecewise on November 15, 2016, 06:11:39 pm
((PW, did I recover any humanity?))Yep. In terms of how much you recover it's pretty easy.
Look at your heart score. Subtract your current amount of corruption from that. You should now have a number. Whatever number is in the 10's spot is the amount you recover. So if you have 33 you recover 3. If you have 56 you recover 5. If you have 9 or lower you recover 1 though.
You always lose some corruption each round, but you can lose more by dedicating an action to it.
Post by: Lenglon on November 15, 2016, 06:12:00 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 15, 2016, 06:24:21 pm
he did dedicate an action to it. it got lost in the ooc up there. I am partly at fault.((PW, did I recover any humanity?))Yep. In terms of how much you recover it's pretty easy.
Look at your heart score. Subtract your current amount of corruption from that. You should now have a number. Whatever number is in the 10's spot is the amount you recover. So if you have 33 you recover 3. If you have 56 you recover 5. If you have 9 or lower you recover 1 though.
You always lose some corruption each round, but you can lose more by dedicating an action to it.
HIT MONSTER MAKE DEAD (with glaive). If the Mason is dead by the time I act, meditate to recover from corruption.
[spoiler=Joe]STR: 75 (46+29)
DEX: 60 (46+14)
SPD: 50 (44+6)
INT: 41
HRT: 43
Corruption: 23 (20 used, 3 for limb)
Post by: piecewise on November 16, 2016, 08:22:14 pm
((PW, did I recover any humanity?))Yes, 10. Also please post an action
Post by: Beirus on November 16, 2016, 08:36:14 pm
Meditate to recover from corruption.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 17, 2016, 04:28:39 pm
Beirus: Lose 10 more corruption.
Oz and whisper botch their attempts to scavenge parts. The flesh miser head and whisper dog chest are destroyed.
Lenglon, you figured out that you could probably improvise a nice knife from the spear of one of the grinning dogs.
Post by: Ozarck on November 17, 2016, 06:01:22 pm
Welp, there goes the only really decent chest part available.
Attach the flesh miser spine in my chest slot.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 17, 2016, 06:15:14 pm
Try and grab dog 2's guts.
Post by: Beirus on November 17, 2016, 06:38:16 pm
Look around for interesting stuff.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 17, 2016, 08:06:02 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 17, 2016, 09:28:22 pm
Edit: i'll edit my previous post to include the doll head and exclude the flesh miser's. I'm not tracking the spiders legs yet, nor have I really tracked what parts Merris has destroyed in her crafting adventures.
Edit 2: feel free to look over my post and see if I have any parts in there you have marked as gone.
Post by: Lenglon on November 18, 2016, 07:28:18 am
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 19, 2016, 10:37:18 pm
You mean the porcelain head and dog chest are destroyed, ot the flesh miser head.65+[15]
Welp, there goes the only really decent chest part available.
Attach the flesh miser spine in my chest slot.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Not sure how you manage it, but you totally break that spine like Bane.
Let's just go with the flesh miser head. Was going to try for that anyway, had I remembered to respond after you told me the porcelain one was yours.I don't know your staaaats.
Try and grab dog 2's guts.
Since people seem to be taking their time, resting and healing, I'll go ahead and attempt to make those bones into more arrows now, using the improvised knife to help.46+[98]Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
You jury rig the spear head into a crude knife. You don't think you could fight with it, or it would at least be very awkward due to the handle shape, but you can use it to whittle just fine. It's basically just half a spear head on a stick, but it works.
46+[64] You whittle 3 of the bones down into usable arrows, essentially making pipe knives, sharp hypodermic needles of hollow bone. Their flight path is gonna be a bit odd at long ranges due to their strange shape and increased weight (+1 range category when shooting these)
You look around. Down, back on the ground floor, next to the little area with tables and stuff, is a pen of sorts. Just a depression, a drop off the courtyard created by the building, but there are several demons in it; lesser ones, demonic hounds. You remember, vaguely, in an almost dream-like way, that the greater demons use these beasts to hunt and capture men.
Look around for interesting stuff.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Up the ladder there's a landing which has two paths branching from it. One leads left, towards a huge vertical concrete pipe. Seriously huge, the size of a cul-de-sac. And, judging from a few walkways snaking around it, equally inhabited. To the right, the walkway leads to what looks like a rather rustic home, ripped straight out of the 1950's. The sort of thing you'd expect to see in a terribly wholesome sitcom or perhaps being blown apart in nuclear test footage.
Post by: Whisperling on November 19, 2016, 10:40:21 pm
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 19, 2016, 10:44:42 pm
Whatever happened to assuming that his stat is 0? I though that was your strategy here.Let's just go with the flesh miser head. Was going to try for that anyway, had I remembered to respond after you told me the porcelain one was yours.I don't know your staaaats.
Try and grab dog 2's guts.
Post by: Ozarck on November 19, 2016, 10:47:56 pm
I have a 65% chance of any given attachment working, and have failed twice in a row. let's try 80% this round.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Whatever happened to assuming that his stat is 0? I though that was your strategy here.He's had that opportunity more than once already :P
Post by: Egan_BW on November 19, 2016, 11:22:52 pm
Post by: Lenglon on November 19, 2016, 11:25:56 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 20, 2016, 12:45:14 am
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 21, 2016, 08:25:35 am
Shoot, sorry PW. Try and salvage that gut (again?)45+[88]Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
You get that gut out, though I'm not sure where you're gonna put it.
Attach the demonic revolver in my chest slot. Spend 15 corruption on this task.
I have a 65% chance of any given attachment working, and have failed twice in a row. let's try 80% this round.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)Whatever happened to assuming that his stat is 0? I though that was your strategy here.He's had that opportunity more than once already :P
65+15+[98]
You attach your arm to the side of the revolver.
So far, the revolver is still useful.
Having a giant revolver in place of your chest makes it sound like you'll accidentally fire it and explode your own head.So long as he keeps it as the chest and doesn't attach anything "in front of" it, ie keeps it as the end part of the limb that is his body, he'll be fine.
Since people seem to be taking their time, resting and healing, I'll go ahead and attempt to make more of those bones into more arrows now, using the improvised knife to help.46+[17] Gah, you ruin the rest of them. Oh well, at least you got a few arrows out of this.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Nothing is coming so far, but you do see distant movement from the big drain pipe thing.
Post by: Lenglon on November 21, 2016, 11:06:34 am
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 21, 2016, 11:10:20 am
I knew if I spent corruption, I wouldn't need to. 98? I rolled a total of 168. Juuuuuust shy of a critical attach
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 23, 2016, 05:02:27 pm
OI. Wake up two people.
Also I'm thinking I should make scavenging parts be a set roll unless in combat. So people can get lots of parts all at once.
Post by: Beirus on November 23, 2016, 05:33:16 pm
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 23, 2016, 05:56:05 pm
Why hello there! Can make new character yet?
Post by: Whisperling on November 23, 2016, 07:47:21 pm
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 24, 2016, 10:49:33 am
Welp, time to stand guard until everyone is ready to move on.I really got nothing to tell ya. You stand around waiting for people to finish. I mean, you could actually go up to be where they are because as of right now you're still down on the first floor, alone and vulnerable. Not like I'm sitting here rolling for encounters or anything.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Attach the doll head in my gut slot. Spend 10 corruption on this task.Ok. I'm gonna make it so that you need only 80 to attach and you can stack as many as you want without penalties. SO you still need to roll 80 for each part but you can make a nice big list and we can finish this shit in one turn not 50.
I knew if I spent corruption, I wouldn't need to. 98? I rolled a total of 168. Juuuuuust shy of a critical attachSpoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
65+10+100(!)
Crit attach! You attach that part, any damage you have is healed and you get a free attach.
*rolls*
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Nah, nothing for right now. But that chance is increasing each turn.
*Is second person who wakes up.*You know what? Sure. Go for it.
Why hello there! Can make new character yet?
Replace my smashed head with the gut. Use 20 corruption to improve my chances of not mangling everything.45+20+[86]Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Another crit attach! You attach that part, heal any damage you have, and get a free attach.
Post by: Ozarck on November 24, 2016, 02:54:19 pm
Alright,for the free attach: the skeletal arm from the miser. All of it together if that's allowed, else, the upper arm alone.
If the free attach is the upper, then my next attaches are the lower and hand if the lower arm is destroyed, use the other skeletal upper arm to replace it. Then I will build one leg out of the complete canine leg replace any destroyed parts with my human leg parts, or the skeletal foot. Then I will build the other leg out of the skeletal leg, replacing destroyed parts with my own, or the dog foot.
Spoiler: So like this (click to show/hide)
this should be enough to fill all slots except the head slot, which I will refrain from filling for now
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beirus on November 24, 2016, 03:18:06 pm
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe. And on Merris, to warn them if something randomly tries to encounter them in an unfriendly manner.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 24, 2016, 04:31:27 pm
One moment for new character. GM-prodding works, people.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 24, 2016, 05:18:11 pm
38
33
31
38
45
39
38
38
39
43
45
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Could I have stats for a mace?
Post by: The Lupanian on November 24, 2016, 10:58:58 pm
Post by: Lenglon on November 25, 2016, 03:04:35 am
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 25, 2016, 09:17:12 pm
I will not be using the porcelain head this round. I will spend no corruption. this overrides the attaches if there are any that require corruption.Yeah, you can do the whole arm. Because you're attaching at one point. It's not like you see the arm, chop it into pieces and then put them back together.
Alright,for the free attach: the skeletal arm from the miser. All of it together if that's allowed, else, the upper arm alone.
If the free attach is the upper, then my next attaches are the lower and hand if the lower arm is destroyed, use the other skeletal upper arm to replace it. Then I will build one leg out of the complete canine leg replace any destroyed parts with my human leg parts, or the skeletal foot. Then I will build the other leg out of the skeletal leg, replacing destroyed parts with my own, or the dog foot.Spoiler: So like this (click to show/hide)
this should be enough to fill all slots except the head slot, which I will refrain from filling for nowSpoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)Spoiler: the dogs (click to show/hide)
So miser arm attached. So the leg means attach upper leg, then attach your lower leg, then attach canine foot. 3 rolls at 65 int...Got em all. So leg constructed... Other leg...You just slap on the miser's complete leg. Oh and you get a crit so one free attach if you need one.
43Mace huh? Lets see....
38
33
31
38
45
39
38
38
39
43
45Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Could I have stats for a mace?
Name: Mace
Type: Melee
HP: 100
Base Damage: 25
Stat Used: Strength
Stat Bonus: None
Stat Requirement: None
Stat Scaling: Yes
Special attribute: +10 damage against limbs and heads.
The demons are being pretty fucking dense right now. But I'd say you've only got a...16% chance of them not noticing you next round.
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe. And on Merris, to warn them if something randomly tries to encounter them in an unfriendly manner.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Wait what? How am I isolated when they're using parts from the bodies down here with me to attach to themselves? If I've somehow become isolated I'll regroup with them and stand guard while waiting for them to be ready to move on, if I'm not isolated then I'll still stand guard and wait for them to be ready to move on.Really you're kinda scattered right now, but you're at least with Oz. For some reason I brained that everyone was up and you were on the ground floor.Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on November 25, 2016, 09:28:03 pm
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
The Oracle pokes a head out of the corpse pile.
"Why hello there, folks! Here to poke the monsters and such, eh?"
Squirm out of the corpsepile and lightly pester the two brave adventurers around there.
...And put my core in my upper left leg this time.
Post by: piecewise on November 27, 2016, 12:46:46 pm
Try to pester them into moving or doing anything, if you could.Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
The Oracle pokes a head out of the corpse pile.
"Why hello there, folks! Here to poke the monsters and such, eh?"
Squirm out of the corpsepile and lightly pester the two brave adventurers around there.
...And put my core in my upper left leg this time.
Post by: Lenglon on November 27, 2016, 12:50:34 pm
Post by: Beirus on November 27, 2016, 01:51:35 pm
Keep an eye on the demons to see if they do anything. If not, keep watch on that house and the walkways around the pipe. Let the others know if the demons notice us.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 27, 2016, 02:07:11 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Whisperling on November 27, 2016, 02:11:12 pm
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 27, 2016, 05:13:54 pm
I'll go ahead and use that free attach to stick the leftover canine head on my head slot. This will make my demonic revolver nonfunctional. I don't know ith teh revolvedr will become functional if the head is later removed. I have updated my sheet to include the canine head.
I'll meditate down by Merris and the New Guy. Dodge any incoming attacks, if necessary.
I thought there was a whole canine leg (left leg) that i could attach, I have it marked as you wrote it though
Minnow speaks out of his canine head and his porcelain head together: I look like a patchwork freak. Hello new guy. want some spare parts? something here might be of use to you. Hey, guys up top! COme down and regroup. no point in fighting all spread out like this!
((I'll actually be useful next round. I'll have enough humanity to use a full bonus. right now, best I could do is use one or two parts of a limb's bonus. Otherwise I will go full demon, right after having acquired several powerful pieces.))
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Minnow's bits (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Miser's corpse (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Grinning Dog 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 29, 2016, 10:18:45 pm
Stick a [CORE] tag next to the part for me, please and thankyou.Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
The Oracle pokes a head out of the corpse pile.
"Why hello there, folks! Here to poke the monsters and such, eh?"
Squirm out of the corpsepile and lightly pester the two brave adventurers around there.
...And put my core in my upper left leg this time.
Both whisper and Oz lose 10 corruption.
Here's the deal boys; every turn you sit around, I roll a dice. The chances of you being attacked increases with each turn, so the safe numbers on the dice decrease. You have somehow managed to get lucky up till now but I've literally run out of numbers for you. However, if I were to throw demons at you I feel we may end up in a death spiral of rebuilding and then doing not much till you get ganked again.
So this is your ultimatum: Get moving and keep moving or bad shit comes.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 29, 2016, 10:24:15 pm
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Yes, please, let's get moving. Drag the party up the ladder and over to that nice house.
Post by: Beirus on November 29, 2016, 10:29:33 pm
Go to the nice house. Carefully. With my Glaive ready.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 29, 2016, 10:43:29 pm
Anyway, Head up to the structure at the top of the ladders with the rest. Ready an attack action for if we are spotted. (normal strength on right arm with sword [no bonus, no corruption], at leading enemy when it approaches into range. use skeletal upper arm bonus (+15 spd, +7 corruption) and carving knife (+30 spd for multi) for a second attack.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on November 30, 2016, 08:42:41 pm
Sorry, gosh. I was down to an arm and like a third of my humanity. If I fought like that, I'd have been toast.I'm not annoyed or anything, I'm just letting you guys know before I spring demons on you and then you spend 5 turns meditating only to get demon'd again, and so on forever.
Anyway, Head up to the structure at the top of the ladders with the rest. Ready an attack action for if we are spotted. (normal strength on right arm with sword [no bonus, no corruption], at leading enemy when it approaches into range. use skeletal upper arm bonus (+15 spd, +7 corruption) and carving knife (+30 spd for multi) for a second attack.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on November 30, 2016, 10:01:50 pm
Sorry, gosh. I was down to an arm and like a third of my humanity. If I fought like that, I'd have been toast.I'm not annoyed or anything, I'm just letting you guys know before I spring demons on you and then you spend 5 turns meditating only to get demon'd again, and so on forever.
Anyway, Head up to the structure at the top of the ladders with the rest. Ready an attack action for if we are spotted. (normal strength on right arm with sword [no bonus, no corruption], at leading enemy when it approaches into range. use skeletal upper arm bonus (+15 spd, +7 corruption) and carving knife (+30 spd for multi) for a second attack.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on November 30, 2016, 10:48:42 pm
Post by: Ozarck on November 30, 2016, 11:08:13 pm
Post by: Whisperling on November 30, 2016, 11:30:35 pm
Auto Whisper: Move with the group. Attack anything that attacks us, otherwise just chill.
Sure. Hardly like I have anything better to do.
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on December 01, 2016, 10:30:12 pm
Past the bridge and that strange hole filled wall is the house you saw from below.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 01, 2016, 10:36:25 pm
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Yup, still going to the house, unless literally everyone else suddenly decides to go the other way. If I'm about to fall off, burn about 30 humanity to catch myself.
Post by: Ozarck on December 02, 2016, 01:13:44 am
Minnow shall take rearguard, waiting for the others to cross and being ready to attack anything that comes up from behind. If someone helps him keep his balance, he'll cross with them, carefully. If he slips, he'll spend 30 corruption to not fall to his death.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on December 02, 2016, 01:33:40 am
Merris and Squish both seem pretty nimble, and Joe there looks like he can handle himself, more or less. Oracle, you and I might be a little awkward across the stepping stones. I suggest that Squish go first and offer assistance to Joe, while Merris guards with the bow. Once those two are across , Merris and Oracle can step across, and maybe one of you nimble people can come back and help me to not miss a step and plummet to my death? Be a shame to waste all these newly acquired pieces on something as ... pedestrian as a loose cobble."Sure, I'll go along with your plan."
Minnow shall take rearguard, waiting for the others to cross and being ready to attack anything that comes up from behind. If someone helps him keep his balance, he'll cross with them, carefully. If he slips, he'll spend 30 corruption to not fall to his death.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Zis plan ist gut plan, dooo eeeetttttt.
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on December 02, 2016, 01:35:02 am
Post by: Ozarck on December 02, 2016, 12:34:35 pm
Post by: Beirus on December 02, 2016, 02:00:51 pm
Go to the nice house with the others. Carefully. With my Glaive ready. Watch out for those holes in the wall.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on December 02, 2016, 03:40:31 pm
Post by: Whisperling on December 02, 2016, 03:42:25 pm
Merris and Squish both seem pretty nimble, and Joe there looks like he can handle himself, more or less. Oracle, you and I might be a little awkward across the stepping stones. I suggest that Squish go first and offer assistance to Joe, while Merris guards with the bow. Once those two are across , Merris and Oracle can step across, and maybe one of you nimble people can come back and help me to not miss a step and plummet to my death? Be a shame to waste all these newly acquired pieces on something as ... pedestrian as a loose cobble.
Minnow shall take rearguard, waiting for the others to cross and being ready to attack anything that comes up from behind. If someone helps him keep his balance, he'll cross with them, carefully. If he slips, he'll spend 30 corruption to not fall to his death.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Follow the plan.
Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on December 03, 2016, 12:00:27 pm
"Oh, humans" the man says, wiggling up a bit more to reveal his naked upper body and arms. "What are you doing there? You should come with me, we can get you somewhere safe."
Post by: Beirus on December 03, 2016, 02:01:17 pm
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on December 03, 2016, 02:17:20 pm
Say:
We just fought a demon with head and chest like a human, but lower body like a spider. It talked like you do, but threw bricks at us. Was this one of yours? Come out, let us see
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on December 03, 2016, 03:53:05 pm
Spoiler: Merris (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on December 03, 2016, 05:30:59 pm
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
The Oracle strides confidently up to the man peeking out of the wall.
"Hello there! I happen to know you already, but we can still talk if you like."
Post by: Ozarck on December 05, 2016, 10:07:05 pm
Post by: Whisperling on December 05, 2016, 10:15:31 pm
Auto Whisper: Stand guard, follow the group. Attack any hostiles that actively attack the group
Let's just assume Oz can act for me if I'm taking a long time from now on. He seems good at not trying to make me commit suicide.
[/quote]Spoiler: Squish, for the time being. (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Gold Tracer (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on December 06, 2016, 11:14:19 pm
I smell a trap. Granted, this whole place is like a trap, but still, we can only see his upper body. Stay quiet and hope someone else can distract the "human" while continuing to move towards the nice house. Protect the others if we get attacked.41+[86]= FailSpoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
You squint down at the human...maybe human...guy. He certainly looks human, there's no like, tiny devil horns on his head or extra eyeball in his nose or something. Nothing obvious. But that other demon, he looked human too. At least mostly. Sort of deformed sure, but not inhuman. You really can't make a judgement either way; nothing screams definitely human, and nothing is obviously demonic.
The man turns to look at you and says "What."Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
The Oracle strides confidently up to the man peeking out of the wall.
"Hello there! I happen to know you already, but we can still talk if you like."
I smell a trap. Granted, this whole place is like a trap, but still, we can only see his upper body. Stay quiet and hope someone else can distract the "human" while continuing to move towards the nice house. Protect the others if we get attacked.You look at the current scene and roll your eyes. If your newly made friends wanna stick their dick in the demon glory hole, thats just fine with you, but you're gonna go check out that house. After all, if you're gonna die, its gonna be doing what you want.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
You make your way around to the house, which is jammed right in the wall at just the perfect angle; all nice and centered and flat so that you can walk into it just like you normally would with a home. It's almost too perfect, compared to the chaos of the rest of the shell. It's in surprisingly good condition too, for such a structure, not crushed or torn in half. Hell, the siding isn't even scratched. The building itself, from what you can see, is a two story building, in that sort of americana style. Wood plank walls, square windows with 4 panes of glass connected by a wooden cross in the center, empty flower boxes outside the windows, and a pleasant, bright yellow paint job. The front door has a screen door in front of a white wood door with some simple patterns carved into it. The screen door is already slightly ajar, and a careful twist of the main door's knob lets you know it's unlocked. You press your ear to the wall and hear what sounds like talking coming from inside. It sounds artificial though; like a radio or television.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 07, 2016, 12:09:30 am
Go shake that man's hand!
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on December 07, 2016, 08:36:33 pm
Can we tell the difference between a human and demon? That Spider Mason talked like a human after all. Did we kill their forward scout?
Say:
We just fought a demon with head and chest like a human, but lower body like a spider. It talked like you do, but threw bricks at us. Was this one of yours? Come out, let us see
MeditateMay as well take advantage of the weird lull in conversation to tame my wild urges and desires.
I assume Egan knows that his is the human settlement or something, but eh, gonna let it play out.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on December 07, 2016, 08:41:23 pm
Post by: Ozarck on December 09, 2016, 03:48:39 pm
Post by: Beirus on December 09, 2016, 04:12:59 pm
I smell a trap. Again. Check the perimeter of the house. Peek in through the windows, but don't actually go inside.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on December 17, 2016, 09:10:34 pm
"Haha, yeah. I'm pretty much omniscient. Don't let that bother you though, it doesn't really affect anything."You walk over to the man in the hole and grasp his hand. He smiles back at you in a normal way, though the handshake he gives is jittery and seemingly confused.
Go shake that man's hand!Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
"you should follow me..." he says after a moment, glancing back into the hole.
Hey!Can we tell the difference between a human and demon? That Spider Mason talked like a human after all. Did we kill their forward scout?
Say:
We just fought a demon with head and chest like a human, but lower body like a spider. It talked like you do, but threw bricks at us. Was this one of yours? Come out, let us see
MeditateMay as well take advantage of the weird lull in conversation to tame my wild urges and desires.
I assume Egan knows that his is the human settlement or something, but eh, gonna let it play out.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
I dunno, can you?
You lose 10 corruption.
I continue to stand ready, letting introductions play out.You stare down at the man and the new guy, brow knitted in concern. Somewhere in the back of your head is a voice whispering "This is stupid."
We're just gonna assume whisper hangs with you, since "explore" could otherwise mean diving headfirst into the structure and fighting anything that might be in there.
I smell a trap. Again. Check the perimeter of the house. Peek in through the windows, but don't actually go inside.Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
The perimeter of the house is....well its kinda hard to check. See, the house is really wedged right into this wall here so there's only a small section that is even reachable from the outside and the "Ground" around it is made mostly of steep, sloping concrete that sides off into a several hundred foot drop. So you can look in on the front, but the sides, they pose a rather fatal problem. You sneak up to the porch and peek in through the window next to the door. The window is quite dusty and hard to see through, but you can see what looks like the glowing face of a TV in a large room, with a recliner in front of it, partially blocking the light. There's a man sitting in the recliner, staring at the TV.
Post by: Ozarck on December 17, 2016, 09:29:48 pm
I squat down and stick my dog head into one of the holes. If I can't see far enough to discern anything, I'll pay 3 corruption to extend the neck so the head goes as far in as possible, to see if I can get a better view. No attacking anything though, just extend the neck to look. If my head is captured, and i can't pull it back, I'll cut it off at the neck.
Auto Whisper: prepare an attack in case Beirus agitates the man at the television.
Yup. Shoving my head into an unknown hole and thrusting vigorously.
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on December 18, 2016, 12:02:35 am
"Now, here's what going to happen. I'm going to flip this coin, and it's going to land on tails. Then I'm going to follow you."
Tails.
Go ahead and follow the guy. At this moment, fate has chosen to make me act as someone who is cautious, despite the fact that caution is never needed. How mysterious.
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on December 18, 2016, 12:17:00 am
Post by: Egan_BW on December 18, 2016, 12:25:19 am
Post by: piecewise on December 20, 2016, 09:33:26 am
Post by: Lenglon on December 20, 2016, 10:16:46 am
Post by: piecewise on December 20, 2016, 01:46:47 pm
The Prophet looks thoughtful for a moment, then pulls an old, rusty coin out of his robes.You get down on all fours and crawl into the tunnel after the man. It's quite dark in there. the only light comes from outside and as you get deeper in it gets weaker and weaker. By the time you reach the end of the tunnel and stand up in the large, hollow cavern it ends in, there's barely any light at all. There's just enough to make out the forms of three huge things in the room. They're like snakes, but much shorter and fatter, maybe 10 feet long but 4 wide. In the weak light you can see a glisten of fluid on their long bodies, up until it ends in what could be called a "head". Instead of a head, they have a body; the body of a human, clenched in lamprey like mouths.
"Now, here's what going to happen. I'm going to flip this coin, and it's going to land on tails. Then I'm going to follow you."
Tails.
Go ahead and follow the guy. At this moment, fate has chosen to make me act as someone who is cautious, despite the fact that caution is never needed. How mysterious.Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
"Oh, humans...Oh...Oh. Safe...Oh....get you..."
"What is that? Hello? AHHHHH! AHHHHH!"
"Don't...Don't...HELP HELP."
The creatures rise like cobras, coiling and lifting themselves, the human bodies in their mouths chattering away, repeating the few words they have like a parrot.As they loom in towards you, you can see the face of the man once again, but his eyes are rolled in separate directions and his face is contorted unnaturally, like a discarded puppet.
Gonna stick my neck out for you guys here. You can thank me later.
I squat down and stick my dog head into one of the holes. If I can't see far enough to discern anything, I'll pay 3 corruption to extend the neck so the head goes as far in as possible, to see if I can get a better view. No attacking anything though, just extend the neck to look. If my head is captured, and i can't pull it back, I'll cut it off at the neck.
Auto Whisper: prepare an attack in case Beirus agitates the man at the television.
Yup. Shoving my head into an unknown hole and thrusting vigorously.Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
You extend your dog head down the hole after Oracle and see what he sees.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 20, 2016, 01:50:31 pm
90 corruption to Str. Whack the one that was talking to me with my mace.
Spoiler: The Oracle (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lenglon on December 20, 2016, 02:54:48 pm
I fire upon the most wounded enemy in my line of sight at the time I end up firing in the turn order. I do this from the tunnel entrance.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 20, 2016, 03:24:05 pm
Post by: Beirus on December 20, 2016, 04:34:24 pm
((Also, I included Whisper in my action incase Whisperling doesn't make one.))
Get Whisper to watch through the window while I knock on the door with the tip of my Glaive, standing as far back as safely possible. If the guy in the recliner gets up to answer and actually turns out to be a monster, Whisper can warn me and we can bail. If not, make polite conversation with whoever opens the door. Or attack them if they attack me. Or if we get some indication that the others are in trouble, abandon the house and go help them.
Spoiler: Joe (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on December 20, 2016, 05:26:22 pm
After the Oracle hits his target, I grab him(the Oracle that is) with my grinning dog head and pull him back up through the hole.
Why didn't I think of extending my neck before I let you come in here? Damn it *clomp* Mmmmrph! MM MM RRPMHP MHPPP!
Spoiler: Oz "Minnow" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Post by: syvarris on December 20, 2016, 07:34:29 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 20, 2016, 09:23:04 pm
Post by: Beirus on December 20, 2016, 09:29:58 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 26, 2016, 12:09:31 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on December 26, 2016, 12:19:07 pm
Setting is cool but...
It's not unvaried, but it's going to be variations on a theme. Like bloodborne as opposed to dark souls (though bloodborne gets round that somewhat with Cainhurst, chalices, dreams).
That's my two cents, at least.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 26, 2016, 01:15:58 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on December 26, 2016, 01:46:11 pm
Post by: Ozarck on December 26, 2016, 03:17:43 pm
There are lots of rounds, too, where a player has to be concerned exclusively with defense / waiting, especially if they use the mechanic of corruption
And, the character sheet is rather complicated for a pbp. It would need some kind of app to reliably keep track of stats, parts, bonuses, corruption use and downtick, health, etc.
I like the game, but it does feel tedious to run. I think ER Redux ran much smoother, though I think I prefer this one, personally.
Post by: Lenglon on December 26, 2016, 03:34:38 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on December 26, 2016, 03:38:41 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 26, 2016, 09:43:40 pm
I Need some think...
Post by: Whisperling on December 26, 2016, 11:13:30 pm
I felt that there weren't really many meaningful actions I could take, aside from "hit monster make dead" and "continue through obstacle course." The thing with the fake humans was a step in a better direction, but... I don't know. Just felt dull rather than engaging for some reason.
Another issue was actually doing the part-swapping and recovery stuff, which was really just waiting and annoyingly frequent failed rolls. Not to mention that it didn't really seem right, per se: You didn't feel like you were tacking scary demon parts onto yourself, it just felt like you were making some slight mechanical improvement or slowly recovering from chest destruction.
-------------------
Honestly, if it were me, I'd take the mechanics away, just a little. Move more towards chunky salsa parts with HP and whatever abilities that were associated with that area of the demon, then find a way to make players feel like they're doing something significant when they replace their head with a canine stomach. Let people improvise in terms of actions and figure out exact damages and effects on the fly.
I get that that sort of thing was probably what you wanted to avoid, given all the fine-tuned mechanics, but (in my opinion) that approach made things feel extremely restrictive and linear, and moved it away from the purpose of having a GM run things instead of a program.
Post by: Pancaek on December 27, 2016, 09:44:51 am
I know that it's really the same for every game, but it just feels like there's a hell of a lot of crunch before you get to the fun parts. It could just be me personally, since I tend to get an aneurysm from just seeing the character sheets here, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Post by: piecewise on December 27, 2016, 11:02:31 am
I have question for you guys; I've been skimming through old systems of mine and other stuff to find one that I might slot in here to use thats simplier and less crunchy. How do you guys feel about statistical setups that can result in monsters that are statistically cannot be defeated via normal means?
Because there's one system I was looking at, based off the BLAME! manga, that basically has you roll 2d10 and add it to a skill number to get your roll for actions. And that means that if you have 20 skill and the opponent has 41, you cannot beat him in a contest of that skill, even if you roll a perfect 20. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't beat him other ways, but you can't just stand toe to toe and swing away, hoping to get lucky, because you never will.
Post by: Whisperling on December 27, 2016, 11:32:00 am
Post by: Pancaek on December 27, 2016, 01:08:13 pm
*HINTS being different from regular old hints in that they're pretty gosh dang obvious. Nothing worse than working your ass off only to be told "lol, you couldn't beat him anyway". I hate it when it happens in video games with fights you can't win, I can only imagine the amount of rage it will generate inside of me if the 30 minute occurence from video games becomes multi-turn ordeal in a forum game.
Post by: piecewise on December 27, 2016, 02:00:54 pm
I don't like it, but I guess it could work so long these kinds of things are very rare and there's at least HINTS* that you can't beat him. I feel like it might be safer to just not bother with those at all, unless on purpose.The thing about it is that while the concept of that seems weird to start with, it actually makes sense. If you're some novice you'll never beat a trained fighter in one on one combat with everything else being equal. But you could place a land mine and then lure the guy in and that could do it.
*HINTS being different from regular old hints in that they're pretty gosh dang obvious. Nothing worse than working your ass off only to be told "lol, you couldn't beat him anyway". I hate it when it happens in video games with fights you can't win, I can only imagine the amount of rage it will generate inside of me if the 30 minute occurence from video games becomes multi-turn ordeal in a forum game.
As per "hints" It should actually be completely obvious if I post the rolls. Because it is always Skill +2d10, so if you see
60+12 vs 25+11
You know you'll never beat him in THAT particular contest of skills. But you could beat him in some other contest, or via some contest that doesn't involve your stats, like aforementioned landmine.
I like it also because it removes low end rolls that skilled players and NPCS shouldn't have while also making it so that some unskilled nobody can't shoot as well as a highly trained sniper due to pure luck. Well, with exploding dice they could but it would be VERY unlikely. As it should be.
Overall though I think the big question becomes what kind of game people want. Do they want a dungeon crawl or a free roam or a ER style mission and objective but free reign to determine how they want to do things. Or any mix of those. Maybe a character focused dungeon exploration like Dungeon Meshi? Dungeon as open world? Some mix?
I mean, I'm constantly making and designing new things, so changing stuff isn't a problem, I just gotta know what people want out of the game.
Or I can just keep making games until something sticks.
Post by: Ozarck on December 27, 2016, 02:34:53 pm
If you want this game to be your main game - your new ER - it's gonna need to be simple enough for brainless playstyle, while still rewarding those players who put some thought into their actions (but, preferably punishing those who put too much thought into them). It needs to be risky enough that people are in real danger of losing their characters, but not so risky that people can't build up their characters over time.
Or not. What do I know? My second most popular game is super simple, rewards very simple playstyle, kills all of the characters, and still lets people build their stories, sort of. So, yeah.
Oh, you might consider a game where one set of people are controllers - those who build their characters - and the other set are agents - those who go out and die. Like a custom robo style game! Have a set of players dsign the roots, then another set take them out and blow them to hell. the controllers are rewarded with, i don't know, income for the next set of developments, while the roboagents are rewarded with neat toys or something - capture a flamethrower, use it next mission, or something.
I would totally desing that game if I weren't runing two games with mid-teens numbers of players right now.
Post by: Pancaek on December 27, 2016, 02:52:57 pm
The thing about it is that while the concept of that seems weird to start with, it actually makes sense. If you're some novice you'll never beat a trained fighter in one on one combat with everything else being equal. But you could place a land mine and then lure the guy in and that could do it.I get what you're saying, but when seeing the rolls it might already be too late to do anything about it. What I'm trying to say is that the concept is fine so long as there's ways to guess what they're good at before they start doing so. Maybe mister office drone #654 is the most skilled frying pan fighter in the world, but I need to be able to somehow deduce that before I decide to get into a skillet fight with the man and get my head caved in in a single turn. I think it will depend a lot on the game itself, to be honest. We'll see.
As per "hints" It should actually be completely obvious if I post the rolls. Because it is always Skill +2d10, so if you see
60+12 vs 25+11
You know you'll never beat him in THAT particular contest of skills. But you could beat him in some other contest, or via some contest that doesn't involve your stats, like aforementioned landmine.
I like it also because it removes low end rolls that skilled players and NPCS shouldn't have while also making it so that some unskilled nobody can't shoot as well as a highly trained sniper due to pure luck. Well, with exploding dice they could but it would be VERY unlikely. As it should be.
Overall though I think the big question becomes what kind of game people want. Do they want a dungeon crawl or a free roam or a ER style mission and objective but free reign to determine how they want to do things. Or any mix of those. Maybe a character focused dungeon exploration like Dungeon Meshi? Dungeon as open world? Some mix?
I mean, I'm constantly making and designing new things, so changing stuff isn't a problem, I just gotta know what people want out of the game.
Or I can just keep making games until something sticks.
As for game, personally I feel like maybe you're focusing a bit too much on the system instead of the setting? Numbers or mechanics weren't what made ER enjoyable for me, the setting and the narration was.
Post by: piecewise on December 27, 2016, 03:42:51 pm
...
I have...an idea that might work.
Post by: Pancaek on December 27, 2016, 04:19:32 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 27, 2016, 06:31:21 pm
Just be careful you don't end up with a systems that bogs you down at every corner and makes it so that nothing fun and unexpected can happen. I know that the system in ER got unbalanced at the end, but it also allowed for a lot of fun stuff. Also, the unbalancing was helped along by tinker and all of the stuff they designed. How many layers of armour do you want with those armour thickness tests?
Yeah, I'm gonna abandon rules for a moment and try something else; gonna sit down and think about the world and experiences I want and then go from there.
Post by: syvarris on December 28, 2016, 03:07:59 pm
Sorry.
Post by: Radio Controlled on December 28, 2016, 04:08:09 pm
Do they want [...] ER [...]?I think you might be on to something here.
In all seriousness, if power creep was your biggest problem with ER, just curtail/ban the tinkering and keep a better eye on what gear you throw out there. No invulnerable suits, no upgrades that give perfect dodge, no magic that grants you a get-out-of-jail-free cards. A little planning and self-restraint really.
And hell, even without that, ER had at least like, what, 3-4 years of good gameplay with people having a lot of fun? I think a lot of gm's would kill for that.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 28, 2016, 08:11:56 pm
Have... Have you considered Mad Max With Wizards?
Sorry.
It has to actually be mad max though, not the weird thing set in a city that I found out it was. Can't get mad max without the road.
Post by: piecewise on December 28, 2016, 10:32:10 pm
FUCK IT I'll DO IT LIVE
Post by: Egan_BW on December 28, 2016, 11:07:15 pm
Post by: Lenglon on December 28, 2016, 11:26:28 pm
I HAVE AN IDEA
FUCK IT I'll DO IT LIVE
We're doing it live, people.The who the whom the wait the whaaa??? Live where when wait wha?
um...
hunuh?
Post by: Parisbre56 on December 29, 2016, 07:30:57 am
What does it mean "I'll do it live"? I've never seen that before "I'll do it live". Do it in IRC? Is that what it means?
*freaks out*
Post by: NJW2000 on December 29, 2016, 08:37:11 am
I can't- There's NO WORDS THERE! (https://youtu.be/O_HyZ5aW76c)Those plane tickets to Nevada will be arriving any day now, don't worry~
What does it mean "I'll do it live"? I've never seen that before "I'll do it live". Do it in IRC? Is that what it means?
*freaks out*
Post by: Radio Controlled on December 29, 2016, 08:54:02 am
Post by: piecewise on December 30, 2016, 02:48:20 am
Does anyone have an image editing program with which they could draw a map for me?
Post by: Egan_BW on December 30, 2016, 02:53:23 am
Post by: Aigre Excalibur on December 30, 2016, 12:30:00 pm
Post by: Radio Controlled on December 30, 2016, 02:22:57 pm
How does one actually do maps right?By not doing them wrong, duh. Really now Aigre, this is basic stuff, you should know better. I'm devolving you from an Aigresaur to a Coelacaigre.
Post by: Ozarck on December 30, 2016, 04:00:33 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 30, 2016, 08:20:07 pm
Almost done. Almost done. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvRQyRdVEI)
Post by: Ozarck on December 30, 2016, 08:24:06 pm
Post by: piecewise on December 31, 2016, 07:38:29 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on December 31, 2016, 07:42:30 pm
Bah. The Nevada time zones mean I'll probably be late signing up if I go to bed now :P
Post by: Egan_BW on December 31, 2016, 07:45:31 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on December 31, 2016, 07:46:37 pm
IN :P
Post by: Ozarck on December 31, 2016, 07:56:09 pm
hmm. maybe I shouldn't though. historically, only the ones I don't join at the beginning really take off :P
Post by: Devastator on December 31, 2016, 09:00:53 pm
JUST A BIT MORE. NEW GAME FOR 2017.
This one got room for my brand of personal insanity?
Post by: Egan_BW on December 31, 2016, 09:07:21 pm
Post by: Pancaek on December 31, 2016, 09:28:50 pm
Also, happy new year everyone! May it be better than the last one.
Post by: Radio Controlled on December 31, 2016, 09:34:08 pm
in because I didn't get into the last two.Hear hear, I'll drink to that.
Also, happy new year everyone! May it be better than the last one.
Also in in case doing that actually helps.
Post by: syvarris on December 31, 2016, 11:52:11 pm
Post by: Beirus on January 01, 2017, 01:59:24 am
Post by: Lenglon on January 01, 2017, 02:56:02 am
Post by: Gentlefish on January 01, 2017, 04:51:58 pm
Post by: renegadelobster on January 01, 2017, 06:49:39 pm
Post by: MidnightJaguar on January 01, 2017, 07:00:00 pm
Post by: Parisbre56 on January 01, 2017, 07:40:50 pm
Post by: piecewise on January 01, 2017, 08:18:31 pm
DIG
Post by: spazyak on January 01, 2017, 10:04:14 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on January 02, 2017, 08:02:19 am
Post by: Egan_BW on January 02, 2017, 11:18:34 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on January 04, 2017, 09:59:39 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 04, 2017, 10:21:02 pm
Post by: piecewise on January 22, 2017, 04:01:34 pm
The system changes I've got in mind are:
1. Modified D100 system for the basic mechanics. And by modified I mean a weird hybrid of RTD and D100, where the range of your roll matters. For instance, lets assume your skill level is 50. If you roll 50-41 (Or 50-45, not really sure on the exact numbers yet) then you succeed but only just barely. If you roll 40-31, then you succeed just as you intended. And if you roll 30-21, then you succeed gloriously! But the inverse is true too. If you fail by a small amount, then you only just fail, if you fail by a fair portion, you fail normally, and if you fail by a lot then you fail horribly! This way its not just a pass or fail and it retains some of that RTD fun of botching a roll. It also makes the effect of boons and negatives much easier for me to keep in my stupid head. +5 is +5% of something working. Got it. No more fucking around with complex math I am bad at.
2. A combination of monster hunter and Body snatcher mechanics where you make items out of demon guts as well as enhancing yourself. To keep things more restrained the demonic enhancements aren't done on the fly and are limited to specific slots where you can stick parts that give bonuses or unique powers. This way you can still become a horrible demon, just not in a way that requires a spreadsheet to track.
3. Semi-free roam design; essentially give you a starting town up on the "surface" and make various missions available to you.
4. Experience system
5. I'm looking into and thinking about combat methods, so It might not be the same as Dig's d100 combat.
Post by: The Lupanian on January 22, 2017, 05:35:39 pm
Post by: syvarris on January 22, 2017, 06:46:09 pm
Is 1d100 that much better than 1d20? It just allows for a little bit extra granularity--if you're making changes of five points (yes, I know that was just a random example), then you're essentially making a d20 system with more unnecessary numbers. And that can result in fuzzy weirdness with optimization, like in Dig where you want a Mind stat that's one point above a number divisible by five, because it means you're guaranteed to survive one more turn of being dead. Also, weirdly, 1d100 seems to result in less variety in characters--In Dig, a profession gives you only a 12.5% skill boost in one skill, and in Oro everyone had nearly identical stat averages due to the large number of dice rolled to randomize starting skill. Compare to WIZARDS or NuER, which feel like they have more differentiation between characters.
For the success levels, are they flat tiers of success, as in beating the target by twelve points always results in the same level of success, even if the target was 13 or 113? Meaning low skill people can never hope to get the equivalent of an RTD's 6-1? I'd think not, since experience growth depends upon a "great success", which would mean people with super low skill can never get better. I just can't see how you'd do something else while still keeping it simple.
If experience only comes when you score a great success, does that mean extremely skilled people who succeed by larger margins would snowball their skill?
Post by: piecewise on January 22, 2017, 10:22:17 pm
In terms of combat, we compare the degrees of failure and success so that even dual failure can end in someone's advantage (sometimes). I'm thinking it should breakdown like this: You deal increasingly more damage depending on the difference between the two rolls. If the two are identical, then whoever either fails by the least or wins by the most relative to their target number is the winner. They deal no damage but gain the advantage the next round. If the rolls are "Abutting" such as a slim win vs a normal win, then 1/2 damage is dealt. If they are 1 apart, such as win vs big win, they deal normal damage. Two apart, they deal 2 times damage and so on. Big win vs big loss deals 4 times damage.
I'm considering how to handle limb severing too. I'm thinking of making it so that the only way to get the limb is to sever it mid fight. Under normal circumstances you swing random and have a 25% sever chance for any limb reduced to 0 hp. You can pick a limb for a -5 disadvantage, and both pick a limb and try to deal severing damage (ie 100% chance of sever if you reduce the limb to 0HP with that attack) for -10.
How weapons work is another conundrum. I'm thinking about having It effected by 3 things: Skill, Stat and Variable. Skill will just be a lock off thing. Need X skill to use. Better weapons need more skill. Second is Stat, and that would mean that your weapon would scale to some degree with your stat. So you could say a weak scaling weapon might have .1 scaling so 50 stat would be +5 damage. Meanwhile a high scale weapon might have .5, which would add +25 to the attack. And Variable which is a particular set of dice to roll that acts as a bit of damage randomization.
So a long sword might be like
Sword skill 20, .1 scaling dex and str 3d4. So at 60 dex, 40 str, you have 3d4+10 damage.
This seems kinda complex but with rounding and the fact that stats don't change often, it will be a fairly straight forward roll. Plus it lets weapons vary and also reflect character build!
Oh, Piecewise is posting more system stuff. I guess it's time for me to complain.You have a point with the level up system. It's probably better to just go an ER route and reward level ups upon certain successes.
Is 1d100 that much better than 1d20? It just allows for a little bit extra granularity--if you're making changes of five points (yes, I know that was just a random example), then you're essentially making a d20 system with more unnecessary numbers. And that can result in fuzzy weirdness with optimization, like in Dig where you want a Mind stat that's one point above a number divisible by five, because it means you're guaranteed to survive one more turn of being dead. Also, weirdly, 1d100 seems to result in less variety in characters--In Dig, a profession gives you only a 12.5% skill boost in one skill, and in Oro everyone had nearly identical stat averages due to the large number of dice rolled to randomize starting skill. Compare to WIZARDS or NuER, which feel like they have more differentiation between characters.
For the success levels, are they flat tiers of success, as in beating the target by twelve points always results in the same level of success, even if the target was 13 or 113? Meaning low skill people can never hope to get the equivalent of an RTD's 6-1? I'd think not, since experience growth depends upon a "great success", which would mean people with super low skill can never get better. I just can't see how you'd do something else while still keeping it simple.
If experience only comes when you score a great success, does that mean extremely skilled people who succeed by larger margins would snowball their skill?
As per D100 vs d20, the main reason is basically d100 is more obvious to me as I balance (I suck at balancing) and lets me give more bonuses which people are always clamoring for at all times. Where as d20, even a +1 bonus is pretty big. If I remember right in D&D the max possible bonus is +10 and thats at a level attainable only by legendary monsters and demigods. Frankly, I have problems handing out advancements that aren't OP and d100 softens that.
As per success levels, I talked about them more above and hopefully that explains it more . Are you complaining that they're flat when they should be scaling?
Post by: piecewise on January 23, 2017, 11:39:38 am
How thematic!
Post by: syvarris on January 23, 2017, 12:04:51 pm
Uh, that's getting really far from the system you were describing. Currently exhausted, don't take me too seriously.
Post by: piecewise on January 23, 2017, 01:05:46 pm
That's... interesting. I do like dice pools. Not sure how it would work though, and it could have problems depending on how the dice are spent--if you get one die per body segment, that's 6dX, and depending on the size of X that's really hurting the randomization. Maybe if it were something like there being four stats, dex, str, endurance, and mind, with each body segment granting dice for different stats... Say, a human head grants +2 mind dice, and an arm does +1 dex +1 str. Balance it so that a starting human doesn't have many dice in any individual stat, but you have the option of, say, replacing arms with heads to gimp str/dex in favor of high mind....
Uh, that's getting really far from the system you were describing. Currently exhausted, don't take me too seriously.
I was thinking of using a modified ORE (One roll Engine). Maybe Nemesis or GODLIKE. (www.arcdream.com/pdf/Nemesis.pdf) Because ORE is about rolling the same number multiple times more than about rolling high all the time.
Really you try to do both but still.
Post by: piecewise on February 04, 2017, 05:03:49 pm
I'll hopefully have more info for you soon.
Post by: Ozarck on February 04, 2017, 05:49:52 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 05, 2017, 05:07:33 pm
Melee
http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/melee/index.php?id=two-basic
Ranged
http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/ranged/index.php?id=one
GURP's 3d6 system for stats works quite well and its what I'm gonna use for the basis of this system (Mainly due to the statistical distribution of rolls) but I don't know if this combat system is gonna cut it.
Post by: piecewise on February 06, 2017, 08:30:08 pm
So the general idea for the basic system is the use of GURPS. The only problem is I'm not sure if the combat would work well in PBP or if it would even be to the liking of my players. There's an example of the AHEM "basic" rules combat hereStunning silence here. But I'm actually evaluating another game system to use that seems like it might work better. The combat is less clunky and difficult, and there's a huge amount of material that will work in the setting. Interesting methods of handling shooting too. Tons of subclasses and stuff. Thinking of running a test of combat.
Melee
http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/melee/index.php?id=two-basic
Ranged
http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/ranged/index.php?id=one
GURP's 3d6 system for stats works quite well and its what I'm gonna use for the basis of this system (Mainly due to the statistical distribution of rolls) but I don't know if this combat system is gonna cut it.
Post by: Gentlefish on February 06, 2017, 09:32:21 pm
test
yep I'm here
Post by: Ozarck on February 06, 2017, 09:37:54 pm
I guess yo uare looking for input? Sorry, I haven't got any for this part of it.
Post by: piecewise on February 06, 2017, 10:48:56 pm
I'm gonna rando-roll you a character, but if you have preferences, I can aim for them.test
yep I'm here
Post by: Egan_BW on February 07, 2017, 12:19:55 am
Post by: Gentlefish on February 07, 2017, 02:13:10 am
Post by: syvarris on February 07, 2017, 12:18:05 pm
...I was under the mistaken impression that GURPS was one of the simpler systems out there, for some reason. Frankly, that example of play is way too overcomplicated. For one thing, different damage types don't need to be recorded separately; we should just have one universal damage type. A lot of those actions seem somewhat superfluous to the game's actual tactics, though some differentiation between standard attacks, defensive attacks, and all-out attacks would be cool. Though, considering that I'm saying that, and I tend to be more complexity-loving than the average ERer, even that might be wrong.
...Also, initiative needs a random element to it. Just having a really fast character always go first is a very dangerous and exploitable thing.
Post by: Ozarck on February 07, 2017, 02:47:50 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 01:29:20 am
Sorry, I saw your post back when you made it, but I hadn't replied because I was busy at the time. And then I forgot to later because all the other active threads are stickied. >.>This is the major reason I'm switching to grit and vigor. Because it has a huge amount of stuff in it, but the core mechanics are all really simple. Combat is:
...I was under the mistaken impression that GURPS was one of the simpler systems out there, for some reason. Frankly, that example of play is way too overcomplicated. For one thing, different damage types don't need to be recorded separately; we should just have one universal damage type. A lot of those actions seem somewhat superfluous to the game's actual tactics, though some differentiation between standard attacks, defensive attacks, and all-out attacks would be cool. Though, considering that I'm saying that, and I tend to be more complexity-loving than the average ERer, even that might be wrong.
...Also, initiative needs a random element to it. Just having a really fast character always go first is a very dangerous and exploitable thing.
Melee attack: d20+ attack bonus (if any) + strength bonus (if any) + situational modifiers (if any).
Ranged attack: d20+ attack bonus (if any) + Dex bonus (if any) + situational modifiers (if any).
And if you get higher than your opponent's Armor class, you deal damage. Thats it. There's also a list of combat maneuvers, but they're the exact same thing, except with a static difficulty you have to get higher than and the opponent gets a saving throw to try and avoid it. It's all super simple. but at the same time I have access to massive lists of data and stats for shit like guns, vehicles, armor, enemies, etc. I have stats for a damn speargun, tonfa, and 18-pdr artillery.
But anyways, lets rando roll a few characters together. 3 specifically. This is a combat test so I'll aim for making you as combat ready as possible. Though with random characters we might get a nerd fight.
So first thing we do is roll out base stats. six 3d6 rolls, placing the stats in the most combat oriented areas. They're standard stats, nothing to say.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gentle is clearly ahead in terms of STR. I've made sure to add the modifiers each stat level gives.
Next, we roll out character backgrounds. Thats d100 4 times. It basically gives you some random starting stuff. Some of these will be changed or cut in the modified system, because I really don't think we need the "Woodworking" or "Shooting billiards" skills. Probably.
72, 56, 15, 98
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So in a combat Test, Gentle is looking increasingly good to win. Next we choose class. There are 4 major classes: Fighter, Scholar, Rogue and Daredevil, and each class has subclasses you can choose if you have the minimum stats. Fighter is pure fight oriented, Scholar is brainy and inventive, rogue is stealth and underhanded techniques, and the daredevil is a bit of everything.
Gentle is a shoe-in for a fighter. Lets look at the sub-classes available to him...He's honestly kind of crap in terms of subclasses because he has really good str but shit int, wis, and especially cha. I could make him a man-at-arms, but that would limit him to melee weapons, So I'm gonna have him be a plain fighter. Fighers have proficiency in 9 weapons of their choice (I'll let him decide) and get an extra attack each round vs creatures with fewer hit dice. Won't matter here, since you're all lvl 1, but something to thing about. His hit dice is a d10 and I rolled 8, he has +1 attack bonus, 13, 14 and 15 for fort, ref and will saves respectively.
Gentle
Str 16 (+2)
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 9
Wis 9
Cha 3 (-3)
8 HP, Saves F13 R14 W15
Attack bonus +1
Bonuses: +2 save vs fatigue
Knacks: Endure
Skills: Bend Bars, Break Down Doors, Endure, Jump and Lift Gates.
Feats: Taunt, Exploit weakness
Next we have Egan. Egan has the stats for a fighter, but his strength isn't as high so I'm gonna check out daredevil. He has the wisdom score needed for it, so lets look at the subclasses available...Hm...his stats are too average for any of these. Guess we're doing straight daredevil. He is proficient with 7 weapons, but this can't include military or specialist firearms. Hit dice is a d8 (8!), no attack bonus at lvl 1, saves of f13 r13 w14. Unlike fighters that have preset skills, daredevils get a choice. Looking at the list of possibilities...I think these 6 will do.
Egan
Str 12
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 9
8 HP Saves f13 r13 w14
Bonus: Temporarily increase physical ability score modifier once per day, by +1 for rounds equal to his level.
Knacks: Display knowledge, Etiquette, Jump, Mechanics
Skills: Acrobatics, Endure, Athletics, Jump, Climb sheer surfaces, Demolitions
And finally we have oz. His mental stats really hold him back from doing much in terms of subclasses, but he has alright dex and str. Lets look into both rogue and fighter. Hmm. No rogue wouldn't really work out for him. Lets look at fighter again. Nothing with an int, Wis or cha restriction... No boxer, no commando, no dragoon, no dreadnought, no duelist, gunfighter, ranger, samurai, or sapper. But man at arms..he could do that. Eh, lets just do straight figher again. Unfortunate, dragoon would have been good.
Oz
Str 12
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 8 (-1)
Wis 6 (-1)
Cha 5 (-2)
6 HP, Saves F13 R14 W15
Attack bonus +1
Bonuses: None
Knacks: Ride mount, Handle animals
Skills: Bend Bars, Break Down Doors, Endure, Jump and Lift Gates.
Feats: Dilettante, Power attack
Now is when you'd choose the weapons you're good with but whatever, we'll assume whatever weapon you choose to start with, you're good with it. Otherwise its a penalty to hit. Next step is a feat. Some of you already have some. I'll post their explainations here. Ignore the prerequisites for the ones you got in generation.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After looking through the available feats, I'm giving Gentle
Pugilist
Prerequisites: Attack bonus +1 or higher
With an unarmed strike, the character deals 1d3 points of damage instead of 1d2 points of damage.
Egan
Toughness
You gain +3 hit points.
And Oz
Quick Draw
Prerequisites: Attack bonus of +1 or higher
You gain a +1 bonus to initiative when drawing and shooting a ranged weapon or firearm.
So end sheets look like
Gentle
Str 16 (+2)
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 9
Wis 9
Cha 3 (-3)
8 HP, Saves F13 R14 W15
Attack bonus +1
Bonuses: +2 save vs fatigue
Knacks: Endure
Skills: Bend Bars, Break Down Doors, Endure, Jump and Lift Gates.
Feats: Taunt, Exploit weakness, Pugilist
Egan
Str 12
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 9
Wis 10
Cha 9
11 HP Saves f13 r13 w14
Bonus: Temporarily increase physical ability score modifier once per day, by +1 for rounds equal to his level.
Knacks: Display knowledge, Etiquette, Jump, Mechanics
Skills: Acrobatics, Endure, Athletics, Jump, Climb sheer surfaces, Demolitions
Feats: Toughness
Oz
Str 12
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 8 (-1)
Wis 6 (-1)
Cha 5 (-2)
6 HP, Saves F13 R14 W15
Attack bonus +1
Bonuses: None
Knacks: Ride mount, Handle animals
Skills: Bend Bars, Break Down Doors, Endure, Jump and Lift Gates.
Feats: Dilettante, Power attack, Quick draw
This is the point where I tell you to choose a weapon or maybe even a few weapons so we can murder.
Post by: Gentlefish on February 08, 2017, 03:37:07 am
Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
If I can have a choice of two weapons, I'd like a staff and a Greatsword. Else I'll just take the greatsword.
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 09:39:31 am
Greatsword...we'll go with "Sword, two handed" 1d10 damage, does +1 damage when two handed.Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
If I can have a choice of two weapons, I'd like a staff and a Greatsword. Else I'll just take the greatsword.
We'll go with a Jō staff for your staff. 1d4 damage, wielded two handed.
Both of your weapons do +2 extra damage due to your strength.
I should say in this that this system allows you to shoot several times a turn if the weapon's ROF is high. You don't deal full damage with each shot but more shots fired increases chances of hitting and/or damage. But you have limited ammo so...
Post by: Egan_BW on February 08, 2017, 03:51:07 pm
Post by: syvarris on February 08, 2017, 04:54:17 pm
I kinda think the GURPS idea was better, just with a stripped down combat system, but this isn't terrible or anything. Just be wary that all those weapons being available isn't necessarily a good thing; D&D's largest flaw is the overwhelming amount of content that can all interact in hundreds of extremely unbalanced ways.))
Post by: Egan_BW on February 08, 2017, 05:04:11 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 05:19:25 pm
I'd like a snub-nosed revolver, some tools and climbing equipment. Also martial arts as a weapon proficiency?Hmm
Revolver eh? Thats got 6 shots, a ROF of 3, 1d6 damage, 180ft range.
Tools...How about some rope, grappling hook, Climbing gear, and compass
Martial arts falls under feats mainly. If you want I can switch you to pugilist. That gives you 1d3 unarmed instead of 1d2.
((This is extremely similar to D&D, or at lesst D&D 3.5 which is the only edition I'm experienced with. A couple trivial differences, like AC being roll over rather than equal to or over, and ability scores giving bonuses in three-point tiers rather than two-point tiers, but virtually identical in most other ways.Its actually part of the general OSR stuff, which bases itself heavily around orginal DnD.
I kinda think the GURPS idea was better, just with a stripped down combat system, but this isn't terrible or anything. Just be wary that all those weapons being available isn't necessarily a good thing; D&D's largest flaw is the overwhelming amount of content that can all interact in hundreds of extremely unbalanced ways.))
But if you guys wanna 3d6 it we can. But with a stripped down system I basically can't use any of the existing gurps stuff because it all assumes certain mechanical things that allow you advantages more than simple slug fests. And at that point I might as well just do it from scratch using the very basic ideas of gurps and building off them.
Post by: Ozarck on February 08, 2017, 05:59:27 pm
Carried weapons: Long rifle, hunting knife, throwing knife (x5)
If I need to choose now which ability gets +1 for tasks, it will be dexterity.
I'll enter the fray riding my charger (horse or car, whichever)
Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on February 08, 2017, 07:13:56 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 11:16:11 pm
Is there any way that I can exploit my opponants' crummy charisma in battle? Taunt is against willpower, so it seems not.Not that I know of. A guy being an ugly fucker doesn't stop him from caving your head in
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 11:17:29 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on February 08, 2017, 11:25:16 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on February 08, 2017, 11:30:38 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 08, 2017, 11:38:23 pm
Post by: Ozarck on February 09, 2017, 06:05:30 pm
How about Oz riding a bear vs gentle and Egan?I'll take those odds!
I do like me some co-op PvE though.
Post by: piecewise on February 09, 2017, 06:20:09 pm
Oh and Oz, for your gear
Long rifle: 2d4, ROF 2, shots 5
hunting knife: 1d4+1
throwing knife (x5): Hmm well we have ninja stars so we'll call them the same thing. 1d2. You can throw one a round.
So, pve, would you like to fight some humans or a big animal? I got some special forces or I got a mastodon.
Post by: Ozarck on February 09, 2017, 07:03:22 pm
I'm pretty torn between those spec ops and that mastaodon, honestly. could go with either. I guess, overall, I'll say spec ops.
Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on February 09, 2017, 08:08:25 pm
Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
Fighting a couple of people sounds like more fun than one big bad.
Post by: Egan_BW on February 09, 2017, 08:15:51 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 09, 2017, 11:56:38 pm
five shots? is that between reloads? Do I have reloads? What does a ROF of 2 mean? How does that compare to an ROF of 3?Five shots per magazine. lets say you have 5 magazines. ROF is how many times you can shoot per combat round maximum. Ie you can shoot up to twice in a round.
I'm pretty torn between those spec ops and that mastaodon, honestly. could go with either. I guess, overall, I'll say spec ops.Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
Let's fight Ivan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135964.msg5013372#msg5013372). At that exact power-level.Ivan would literally snap you in half.
I need to get that anime system working a bit better.
Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
Fighting a couple of people sounds like more fun than one big bad.
Alright, book here says they come in groups of 1d6. Lets see...4. And they all have guns. So, I'm gonna give you the choice of where you face them, just so you have the best chance.
Post by: piecewise on February 10, 2017, 12:12:37 am
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EYN8WwusUOEMXksepeV3xT9G1WvwutovHGHJHKK45XE/edit?usp=sharing
Here's the special forces sheet too
Soldier – Special Forces
Type: Warrior
Intelligence: Average (9-12)
Hit Dice: 3d8
Movement: 40
Armor Class: 11
Attacks: Sub-machine gun (1d6), fighting knife (1d4+1) or pistol (1d6)
Skills: Climb Sheer Surfaces, Demolitions, Endure, Hide in Shadows, Jump, Move Silently, Sky Dive, Survive Outdoors, Swim
Saving Throws: F11, R13, W14
No. Appearing: Squad (1d6)
XP Value: 150 (CL 3)
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2017, 01:36:02 am
Post by: Gentlefish on February 10, 2017, 01:48:55 pm
In the belly of some great and terrible machine. They were sent to destroy it, but us cultists have something to say about that.
So long there's lots of solid cover, I'm okay with this.
Post by: piecewise on February 10, 2017, 07:53:35 pm
In the belly of some great and terrible machine. They were sent to destroy it, but us cultists have something to say about that.
Alright then. You are in the belly of an enormous machine. And when I say the belly, I mean the belly. You are in the massive processing vat where humans and rubble are rendered down into usable materials for the ever advancing passage of the great iron worm. The vat is somewhat incorrectly named; its more like standing in a pipe, knee deep in water, blood, viscera, and debris. There are chunks of metal and concrete scattered all over, easy to hide behind. The entire thing is a good few hundred yards long. You three are crouched near the middle of it, and 100 yards away is a team of four special forces soldiers. They survived the consuming process and are busily searching out any cultists of steel, in an effort to undermine the strength of the worm. They're moving slowly, about 10 yards a round, sweeping the dimly lit room with flashlights mounted on machine guns.In the belly of some great and terrible machine. They were sent to destroy it, but us cultists have something to say about that.
So long there's lots of solid cover, I'm okay with this.
Post by: Ozarck on February 10, 2017, 08:29:51 pm
But no! Metaknowledge says this is a playtest for combat mechanics, so let's get busy!
Grumpy J will find cover and take aim with his long rifle.
Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on February 10, 2017, 09:15:04 pm
Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
Hide in some location where I can close the gap when found/not found and pounce a Spec Ops.
Essentially, divide and conquer here. For the glory of the steel!
Post by: Egan_BW on February 10, 2017, 10:58:45 pm
Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on February 11, 2017, 02:18:59 pm
Wait. We're not cultists of steel are we? We have no desire to strengthen the worm, do we? Are these enemies actually friends?((I went off egan's prompt!))
But no! Metaknowledge says this is a playtest for combat mechanics, so let's get busy!
Grumpy J will find cover and take aim with his long rifle.Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
[13]
Yeah so the second you move to get some cover, they hear you and the lights all converge on your stupid face.
[5]
They are not surprised to see you, and thus you cannot avoid them. So now we have combat.
I'm gonna assume that while they do see you, you also get to cover.
[15]Spoiler: Grant Flint (click to show/hide)
Hide in some location where I can close the gap when found/not found and pounce a Spec Ops.
Essentially, divide and conquer here. For the glory of the steel!
They also see you, but you get some cover about 10 yards from John.
Any ways out of the pipe? Alternate paths, besides forward and back? Anything in the environment I could rig as a trap, or generally use to my advantage?There's ways out of the pipe both ahead, through the special forces, and behind, away from them. Alternate paths [search check 3, fail] are none and none. As per things you could rig in the environment, the best you've got is probably knocking down some of the more precarious debris that has gathered on the edges of the pipe; large masses of concrete and metal that tangled together and got stuck. That, or maybe find some jagged metal under this sludge and try to knock them onto it.Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
[roll to continue to be hidden: 14 fail] They see you too.
So combat works like this: First I roll initiative. thats d10+ any dex bonuses. You don't have any dex bonuses. But the soldiers don't either so, even footing at least. I'm rolling the 4 guys as a single group, for ease.
10 for egan
9 for Gentle
3 for Oz
3 for soldiers
So egan goes first, then gentle, then oz and the soldiers at the same time. Cover is an advantage so it adds +2 to your AC. Still, they're 4 guys with machine guns so I recommend moving quick.
Post by: Egan_BW on February 11, 2017, 03:11:34 pm
Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
((...Seriously? It's not that hard to stay in one place to ambush some guys. All we had to do was hide behind the cover we were already behind.))
Post by: Ozarck on February 11, 2017, 03:40:31 pm
Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gentlefish on February 11, 2017, 06:05:26 pm
Spoiler: Grant (click to show/hide)
Any way to get total cover in this area? ie break line of sight completely? I wanna stick 'em with my big slasher but they're too far away. Find that and go to it ASAP. Otherwise duck and wait to murder when they get close.
Post by: piecewise on February 11, 2017, 06:48:16 pm
Retreat a ways and find an opening to get on top of the pipe.I didn't say you were in cover. Also you're wading around in knee deep fluid, you think you can slosh through that without people hearing easily?Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
((...Seriously? It's not that hard to stay in one place to ambush some guys. All we had to do was hide behind the cover we were already behind.))
Post by: piecewise on February 12, 2017, 05:11:00 pm
Retreat a ways and find an opening to get on top of the pipe.You slosh a good 200 feet away and get behind a chuck of concrete. You look around for a way up onto the edge of the pipe and you think you might be able to get up there by climbing a big hunk of fallen building over there.Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
((...Seriously? It's not that hard to stay in one place to ambush some guys. All we had to do was hide behind the cover we were already behind.))
Well, if you put a wall between yourself and them they can't shoot through it...with their guns at least. Breaking line of sight would protect you but losing them completely would be difficult. They're not metal gear solid guards; they're gonna look for you. So for now, you just get some hard cover and hide behind it, waiting for them to get closer.Spoiler: Grant (click to show/hide)
Any way to get total cover in this area? ie break line of sight completely? I wanna stick 'em with my big slasher but they're too far away. Find that and go to it ASAP. Otherwise duck and wait to murder when they get close.
If the others retreat, run like hell. Otherwise, shoot at the most exposed of the other guys.Spoiler: Farmer John "Grumpy" Jones (click to show/hide)
So you're acting at the same time as the soldiers, which means you're running under fire. I'm giving you AC +2 because you're a fast moving target. We have 4 soldiers, 2 are focusing on you, two are heading off to follow gentle.
Both of them are gonna unload 20 shots at you each. The first one is gonna add 4d6 worth of damage from their attack, the second is gonna add +10 to hit and 2d6.
Your AC is 12, they get +3 on their attack roll. First guy gets a 1 +3 and totally fucking misses. Just sprays lead into thin air. Other guy gets 12 with +3+10 so he hits. 3d6 =1+1+5
-1 Hp. Unconcious, slowly dying.
So John attempts to make a run for it but gets gunned down as he runs.
The other two soliders start slowly advancing towards Gentle's location, with their weapons raised.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Radio Controlled on February 12, 2017, 05:21:12 pm
Post by: piecewise on February 12, 2017, 05:25:24 pm
Is it wrong that I'm kinda rooting for the special forces dudes here?I mean, its probably the smart thing. This is a fight between 4 elite soldiers and
Post by: Egan_BW on February 12, 2017, 05:46:02 pm
Assuming that climbing uses str, use my daredevil bonus to increase my str, and then climb on top of the pipe.
Spoiler: Queen wombat (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on February 15, 2017, 05:44:20 pm
Post by: Gentlefish on February 16, 2017, 10:40:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hide until someone rounds the corner I'm watching, them bum-rush them with my sword.
Post by: piecewise on April 06, 2017, 10:46:07 pm
A) A complex and tightly connected, metroidvania style world that requires a fair bit of backtracking and doing similar things.
B) An episodic adventure where there's only limited connection between each event or area, but each is unique and never reused.
Just to gauge opinions.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 06, 2017, 10:54:50 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 06, 2017, 11:04:26 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on April 06, 2017, 11:11:48 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 06, 2017, 11:38:25 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 06, 2017, 11:56:04 pm
far less interesting, though perhaps less risky.AKA the Ubisoft option.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 07, 2017, 03:15:30 am
Thinking about New Londo, Endless Discharge, etc, and the amount of variation you can get out of one area, I think I'd prefer to have different things happen in the same place. Forums games often lack worldbuilding as well...
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 07, 2017, 05:40:35 am
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2017, 09:19:05 am
Question the second:
How do you feel about fast travel? With option A we have the difficulty that a preset world means that to get somewhere with the stuff you need, you might have to travel quite a distance through many different things. I can foresee it getting rather tedious to bash through monsters and areas repeatedly. As such, I think it might be prudent to allow fast travel in the form of a subway system. Stations for this system can serve both as places to "warp" to and as places where new characters can jump in if an adventuriing party loses some of their members.
The alternative would be saying like "Ok, the party moves from our town to this area we previously discovered." and then I roll a series of encounters you have to fight in order to get there. Since moving through each area in real time would be extremely annoying, in a PBP format.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 07, 2017, 09:22:42 am
Also might want to think about "natural" fast travel: Journeys back and forth get faster as you unock shortcuts like bridges, elevators, doors, etc. Requires careful worldbuilding, but that's what Option A is about.
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2017, 10:06:56 am
Shortcuts are assumed, but even with short cuts you'll have to fight SOME things and go through SOME areas in order to reach your destination. If you remember DS1, getting from blighttown to sens fortress, even with every shortcut unlocked, still takes a fair deal of walking.BonfiresFast travel sounds acceptable :D
Also might want to think about "natural" fast travel: Journeys back and forth get faster as you unock shortcuts like bridges, elevators, doors, etc. Requires careful worldbuilding, but that's what Option A is about.
I suppose, thinking back to it, that you could have it so that shortcut routes are relatively unpopulated with monsters, but if thats the case then you might as well just fast travel.
The way I'm thinking about it, for fast travel, is that fast travel is used to move between areas you've found, and shortcuts are used to move around in those areas and avoid having to deal with large parts of them unless you want to.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 07, 2017, 10:30:08 am
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2017, 11:01:35 am
I'd consider making it so that once the shortcut is unlocked, you can fast travel there, but no fast travel without an unlocked shortcut.Thats the idea, yeah
You can't just instantly travel wherever you want, but once you reach a place, you can get there again. The idea being that each area will only have 1 station, and that interlevel shortcuts allow you to get back to that station. So as you explore the area, the shortcut allows you to return to different parts of the level without warping there.
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2017, 06:13:33 pm
Do you want the world to have a story? A logic behind its existence? Or is such an abstract concept best left unexplained and simply experienced?
Post by: Egan_BW on April 07, 2017, 06:17:38 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 07, 2017, 09:56:11 pm
Revolver only has combat skills so the OURO version is gonna need more skills to work. I've been thinking and here are the skills I currently have. It should be noted that players aren't gonna be doing any rolls for managing their town. That's all just communal decisions. Player skills will be solely dedicated to adventuring. These are the current NON-COMBAT or at least not directly combative skills
Search: Used to find hidden items, doors, and stealthy enemies. Rolled automatically when there’s an opportunity.
Examine: Used to examine items, enemies, etc. Can be used to learn about items, display enemy stats, and the like.
Skullduggery: A blanket skill for things like bashing down doors, picking locks, disarming bombs and general roguish actions.
First Aid: For the use of healing items.
Repair: Used to attempt to repair damaged or disabled things. Has some overlap with electronics and mechanics for mechanical or electronic things. In these cases, you may use whichever skill is higher as the roll
Movement: Used for out of the ordinary movements, such as climbing ropes or walls, balancing on an edge, or other acrobatic feats.
City Lore: Rolled to see if a character knows about something around them. For instance, if a player sees a new enemy, they will roll this to see if they know what it is, and thus get some info on it.
Electronics: Used to handle, repair or manipulate anything electronic.
Mechanics: Used to handle, repair or manipulate anything mechanical.
Stealth: Used to remain unseen, stay quiet and generally not be noticed. When acting in a group, the player with the lowest stealth is the one who the roll is made against, since if he is noticed you all probably will be.
Post by: NJW2000 on April 08, 2017, 03:52:36 am
Another question:Yes. It helps with worldbuilding. Also, REVOLVER is the latter I think, and is too procedural for my taste.
Do you want the world to have a story? A logic behind its existence? Or is such an abstract concept best left unexplained and simply experienced?
Post by: piecewise on April 08, 2017, 08:04:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In order to prevet issues people had with DIG, starting skills now get a boost up from zero by governing stats, though increasing the stats later doesn't increase the skill.
If you guys would like, It would be nice if you could fill in a character sheet (really just a list of your numbers for all stats and skills), just so I could see what the distribution is like and work from there. Oh and when it says "Average" I mean add the two numbers and then divide by 2 to get a number that is the average of the two stats.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 08, 2017, 09:26:39 pm
Strength: 23 + 7 = 30
Dexterity: 18
Endurance: 19
Mind: 13
Will: 14
Speed: 14 + 3 = 17
Spoiler: skills (click to show/hide)
Post by: The Lupanian on April 09, 2017, 02:39:41 am
Spoiler: Sorrow (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ozarck on April 09, 2017, 04:37:01 am
Explosive and unarmed should be 9, though.
I can't help Lupanian as much, unless he shows where he added points.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 09, 2017, 04:39:19 am
Spoiler: Hidden pistoleer, Dancing conduit (click to show/hide)
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 09, 2017, 07:50:26 am
-roll 'search' and 'examine' into 1. Seem to overlap a lot.
-remove 'repair', keep 'electronics' and 'mechanics'. Again, overlap, the description even mentions it.
No time right now to create a char, sorry.
Post by: piecewise on April 09, 2017, 10:27:01 am
Initial thought on the skills:Search, Examine and City lore have overlap, but I thik of it like this.
-roll 'search' and 'examine' into 1. Seem to overlap a lot.
-remove 'repair', keep 'electronics' and 'mechanics'. Again, overlap, the description even mentions it.
No time right now to create a char, sorry.
Search is for stuff like finding traps, hidden walls and loot.
Examine is for deducing things like the worth of an object, the stats of a monster, or mechanical information about the game.
City Lore is for learning about monsters or items in terms of their place in the game world or details that aren't strictly mechanical. Its akin to reading item descriptions in Dark souls.
I suppose I could roll them into one skill.
Repair I could probably safely remove.
You didn't say which way to round so I didn't.I've updated the rules to clarify that you should round down.Spoiler: Hidden pistoleer, Dancing conduit (click to show/hide)
Here's a question I have for you guys. As of right now most of these characters seem to be heavily focused on a few specific skills, generally letting most utility skills stay lowish. If you had more points, would you put them into utility or would you instead put them into other attack stats? I ask because the 3d12 we're using has a curve, so even if you have 10 in a skill, thats like a 7% chance of success. Where as 20 in a skill is a 50% chance. A few points, say from 10 to 15, increases the chance from 7% to 27%. And if 20 is 50% then 25 is 80%. So people with their utility skills floating in the 10's or so have little chance of being able to do them, but a little bit more and they'd at least have a 25% chance.
Post by: Ozarck on April 09, 2017, 11:26:21 am
they have the same value individually as the individual combat skills do. Roll the utilities together and you gotta start rolling together the various weapon skills too, or risk the same kind of ridiculous imbalance that Dig has.
That said, in answer to your question about putting points into utilities: when has that ever been a viable option for one of your games? You had to modify Dig pretty heavily to make build interesting enough to work for most players, and once it was, it became one of two highly dominant skills - overshadowing pretty much the rest of the game.
I don't know of another of your games where utilities are balanced at all with combat or magic.
So, that said, I would wait until the game starts and see which way the wind blows before making a character. Frequent combat? I'd go combat only. Some practical need for utilities? I'd make something with a mix. Tinker on Wheels (or in a Drill)? Build skill all day long. Except I hate tinker, so in the third option I'd just ... either idle or drive away from the group until I found something interesting.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 09, 2017, 12:01:38 pm
Having more points could mean more wider distribution, but on the other hand it could mean even more crippling specialization.
Post by: The Lupanian on April 09, 2017, 12:50:05 pm
And to answer the question, yes, I did round down. I did all my math on a hotel paper pad, and really didn't feel like transferring the math.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 09, 2017, 02:05:42 pm
Post by: NJW2000 on April 09, 2017, 02:23:00 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 09, 2017, 02:50:57 pm
Dunno about rolling your own stats. Seems a bit exploitable and unrewarding to me.The alternative would be "Everything just starts at 15. Here are some points to use"
The major reason for rolling stats is that it is a powerful anti-munchkin tool. And makes balancing somewhat easier.
In any case, I'm gonna probably go for the "Everything starts at this, heres some points."
Post by: The Lupanian on April 09, 2017, 11:40:39 pm
So, for example, you have: a 5 point, a 10 point, two 15 point, a 20 point, and a 25 point ticket. Then 20 points to put wherever you want.
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 10, 2017, 05:04:50 am
Quote
Search is for stuff like finding traps, hidden walls and loot.Perhaps keep city lore but combine search and examine, and make it so the differences between the remaining two are clear and people can't substitute the one with a good roll of the other.
Examine is for deducing things like the worth of an object, the stats of a monster, or mechanical information about the game.
City Lore is for learning about monsters or items in terms of their place in the game world or details that aren't strictly mechanical. Its akin to reading item descriptions in Dark souls.
I suppose I could roll them into one skill.
Dunno about rolling your own stats. Seems a bit exploitable and unrewarding to me.The alternative would be "Everything just starts at 15. Here are some points to use"
The major reason for rolling stats is that it is a powerful anti-munchkin tool. And makes balancing somewhat easier.
In any case, I'm gonna probably go for the "Everything starts at this, heres some points."
It's not like people couldn't go for a build that prioritizes flexibility over specialization in DIG (competence be damned) but yeah, starting at a base level in everything at least makes sure people can't stat themselves in a way that makes certain action literally impossible (which a 0 in a skill in DIG does ensure). In ER having negatives didn't prevent you from trying, it just made disaster and hilarity have a high probability.
You could add a skill/stat ceiling that's relatively low when genning characters, so you can only really get good at something after investing in it in-game, and not start out a master. Or perhaps make a few templates yourself people can choose from?
I'd not go with rolling for stats if they tie into your skills so much, it might lock you out of the role you wanted to play due to bad luck.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 10, 2017, 08:10:11 am
Post by: syvarris on April 10, 2017, 11:24:37 am
'Course, it does allow a bit less freedom for players, because they might end up with a character who's amazing for a role which they have no interest in, and have to render it mediocre to play their desired role. Such a system would be my preference, but I can see why others might dislike it.
Post by: piecewise on April 10, 2017, 01:25:33 pm
Post by: The Lupanian on April 10, 2017, 03:16:55 pm
There's also the point that we need to make character gen somewhat quick because...well, revolver has 6 lives. OURO doesn't.Could we have a little bit more health? Because constantly generating new characters would get really frustrating.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 10, 2017, 04:45:23 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 10, 2017, 06:30:20 pm
You'll probably have the same health, but hitting zero HP won't kill you instantly. Think the Xcom thing where you can get downed but if someone deals with you quickly, you can recover. But remember that this is a game where we anticipate plenty of people wanting to play, so fast turn over is an important part. An alternative we have is that stats are fully rolled and skills are chosen by the player. Doing this would allow me to generate large numbers of "population" from which the players are already going to be drawn. And you can just choose which body you want.There's also the point that we need to make character gen somewhat quick because...well, revolver has 6 lives. OURO doesn't.Could we have a little bit more health? Because constantly generating new characters would get really frustrating.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 10, 2017, 06:51:25 pm
If you go that route, maybe also give each body a sex, age, and appearance. To coerce people into not playing as incredibly generic young men.
Post by: piecewise on April 10, 2017, 07:55:36 pm
I like the idea of having lots of bodies that the players can freely choose from, but then people would probably fight over the higher stat ones. :PFunnily enough, I already have a generator for something like that.
If you go that route, maybe also give each body a sex, age, and appearance. To coerce people into not playing as incredibly generic young men.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/as0s1i4frtdyss0/Name%20generator2.html?dl=0
Post by: Egan_BW on April 10, 2017, 08:21:23 pm
Post by: Devastator on April 10, 2017, 11:16:29 pm
To coerce people into not playing as incredibly generic young men.
If you can't stand out playing an incredibly generic young man, does having ten pages of purple eyelashes really help?
Post by: piecewise on April 10, 2017, 11:20:06 pm
Sometimes looking different can give you ideas of how to create a more unique character. Looking different doesn't make you different, but it can play a part in the actions and personality that actually do make you unique.To coerce people into not playing as incredibly generic young men.
If you can't stand out playing an incredibly generic young man, does having ten pages of purple eyelashes really help?
In any case, we're getting a head of ourselves. Once I get the basics of this system set out, I'm gonna do the world building. I have to have a good idea of the layout of the world before I stat doing the building tech trees and such.
Post by: piecewise on April 18, 2017, 08:39:54 am
Post by: piecewise on April 18, 2017, 09:56:58 am
Specifically, should the town have needs to fulfill, a set population, and have the chance for invasions destroying buildings and the like. Or should it be more videogamey; ie the town will grow as you advance and these advancements cannot be lost; you can't run out of population, you can have invasions but the worst case scenario is losing characters and resources.
I ask because that first one, the simulationist one, is a lot more realistic but also has a very definite chance that the game could advance to some point and then the town could be destroyed and result in, basically, a game reset.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 18, 2017, 02:23:42 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 18, 2017, 04:00:54 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 18, 2017, 08:23:18 pm
I think it depends how often bad stuff happens in towns. If it is daily occurance, then video gamey approach is best. If it is very rare, then realistic. Having to go back and recapture town is probably fine if it doesn't happen more than twice over course of the game. Any more and it becomes more of annoyance than fun.Well, that would depend on the players actions honestly.
Lemme copy paste from my sekrit documents.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Realistic. Gotta defend that shit.You'd be defending it either way but....well, one way you could lose good characters, the other way I could just say "Game over. start again from the very beginning"
And I mean the VERY beginning.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 18, 2017, 11:45:30 pm
Post by: Devastator on April 19, 2017, 01:35:55 am
Post by: NJW2000 on April 19, 2017, 03:44:38 am
Would be happy with simpler, less realist approach. Focus on missions.
Post by: piecewise on April 19, 2017, 06:47:43 am
This is 2017, Bad Ends are with subject to approval only.No, the problem here is that I don't want to create 25 big ass dungeon maps only for you guys to bone it on the second one and then have the game just end abruptly with a great deal of wasted effort and time on my part.
Post by: Devastator on April 19, 2017, 07:07:24 am
((I'm just griping due to unrelated stuff, such as something I was following turn into soap opera plots in order to not have any villains, because villains in fiction are an outdated idea. The other reason is so that fans can present their OCs in a situation where they don't actually have to do anything, and as such, are free to be completely incompetent.))
A 'bad end' might just lead to 'start new game', after all. So not that big of a deal.
Post by: syvarris on April 19, 2017, 05:33:22 pm
As for restarting and running a new game, while I kinda want that due to lingering hopes for Mad Max With Wizards, rationally I know that won't happen. If we lose particularly early, we should just restart.
Post by: Ozarck on April 19, 2017, 07:24:09 pm
Einsteinian Roulette began on april 1, 2012 :http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106279.msg3151913#msg3151913 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106279.msg3151913#msg3151913)
and the epilogue was posted on August 26, 2016: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106279.msg3151913#msg3151913 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106279.msg3151913#msg3151913)
Though the game had essentially ended mid-July and had been wrapping up for some time before.
So, a run of four years, three and a half months.
Oro has been in development for a quarter of that length.
Post by: syvarris on April 19, 2017, 07:55:33 pm
Or are you just complaining about how long it's taking? If so, well, I think that's the point of PW's various other games that he's running. WIZARDS, DIG, REVOLVER, Infinite Heavens, which is oddly not in all caps. They're actual games being run while he works on his next big thing, because he wants to do something aside from work on the big thing.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 19, 2017, 08:00:51 pm
(Yes the bits and pieces were already floating around my head, but that's how long it took to glue the right bits together.)
Post by: Ozarck on April 19, 2017, 10:33:05 pm
...Yeah? So? Are you saying PW should just stop with the developing and run the thing, to prevent it from being eternally worked on, but never run? Can't say I disagree with that assessment, though I could see it needing a whole lot of on-the-fly tweaking at the beginning.I'm saying that ER ran for over four years (here is a link to it's beginning and here is a link to it's end), and that Oro has been in development longer than most games on this forum have run (including all of mine except OL).
Or are you just complaining about how long it's taking? If so, well, I think that's the point of PW's various other games that he's running. WIZARDS, DIG, REVOLVER, Infinite Heavens, which is oddly not in all caps. They're actual games being run while he works on his next big thing, because he wants to do something aside from work on the big thing.
On a side note, I think Infinite Heavens was not intended to be a 'gap' game, but it's own thing.
It is interesting to contrast with ER, which was created within the space of a week. I like to think I'm following in those footsteps with Perplexiplex, which I came up with during a shower, then wrote down real quick and posted. :PFew of my games have had more than a passing amount of preparation. Grunts, for example, was an experimental game that grew up pretty nicely. I just haven't been motivated to organize it like I wanted. I have a spreadsheet set up to track classes, abilities, and everything, but haven't done anything with it.
(Yes the bits and pieces were already floating around my head, but that's how long it took to glue the right bits together.)
Post by: piecewise on April 19, 2017, 11:52:22 pm
Oro hasn't been in continous development honestly, because I'm never sure exactly what will stick with people and oro went though a few different iterations.
I will say that it's quite hard to mae a "Next big thing" because things like perplexicon and ER were just hastily thrown together but worked, more or less. A system to handle tons of people is especially hard. Though I wonder if thats actually a problem since dig was open to everyone and has about 9 people.
Hmmm.
I am so tempted to just create something in a week end and see what happens.
Post by: Egan_BW on April 20, 2017, 09:34:02 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 20, 2017, 11:07:47 am
But then again some other games I didn't put much effort on planning weren't very good, so maybe there ain't any trend after all.
Post by: Harry Baldman on April 20, 2017, 11:28:57 am
Of course, one can hardly blame you with the mixed signals you get from ER (excellently told, more so in the start, short on mechanics) and Perplexicon (excellent central mechanic, short on story).
Post by: Whisperling on April 20, 2017, 12:02:28 pm
Of course, it's hard to gauge how much stock should be put in that, especially because simple and quick games are also the ones which die off on a daily basis.
There's probably a good middle ground somewhere in there. Enough planning that you know where you could steer things, but not enough to bog yourself down or keep some truly zany event from changing things. A weekend seems like a decent place to start.
--------
This seems like a good point to mention something that's been bugging me. Not sure if it's a concern for others (nobody else has really said anything, after all), but I figure I might as well get it out and see whether it leads anywhere.
To be perfectly honest with you, I think the fancy systems you've been trying in ORO and DIG may be doing more harm than they are good. As of right now, it seems they've served largely to confuse people and make things far more complicated than is necessary.
I get that long-term balance is a concern, as it should be. Even so, there are probably better solutions out there than butchering basic gameplay. Maybe try and avoid roll bonuses from things that aren't stats, favor abilities and general common sense instead? That seemed to work well enough for you in Perplexicon.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 20, 2017, 01:20:34 pm
...general common sense...
Really? Common sense? Here?
Post by: NJW2000 on April 20, 2017, 01:35:17 pm
Still, my six weeks of planning are generally pretty low-key, as I like to mull over stuff, and I think PW working for a weekend on something would be roughly equivalent. Which makes me slightly dubious about him planning something for a year. So my (limited) experience suggests the weekend plan might work out.
While this might seem unhelpful, I also think GMing well and having a gameplay loop people like is more key to success than massive planning and agonising over systems. And I don't know how to work out the latter except by trying and seeing, and I'm fairly sure nobody else does.
Post by: piecewise on April 22, 2017, 08:19:33 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2017, 08:26:26 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2017, 10:56:56 am
Post by: NJW2000 on April 23, 2017, 11:08:04 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on April 23, 2017, 01:58:00 pm
Part of the deck is preset from your weapon and armor class, and the rest the player can simply choose, representing equipment and fighting style. When melee combat between two people initiates, they each draw their hand of five cards, and then can choose any number of them to play in any order. After the players make their decisions, the cards are lined up like a timeline and resolved chronologically. This is probably the most stupid/complicated part of the system, and probably requires pictures to explain sufficiently. After this "turn" of combat is settled, the combatants remain engaged with each other, but now in a "harassing" mode, where they keep their distance. Here, you can heal, regain stamina, try to retreat, use short range weapons to do smaller amounts of damage, or reengage.
Post by: piecewise on April 23, 2017, 04:38:36 pm
Making maps is hard when you have no artistic talent.
Post by: piecewise on April 24, 2017, 06:36:21 pm
Finish this second map today, even if it kinda looks crappy, and then finish up the rules today and tomorrow; post before midnight tomorrow, my time.
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 10:06:54 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on April 25, 2017, 10:19:04 am
Code: [Select]
[img height=500][/img] You can also specify width, if you don't the width will be rescaled so the image isn't deformed.
Compare:
Code: [Select]
[img]https://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hypnotoad-animated.gif[/img]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Code: [Select]
[img height=100]https://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hypnotoad-animated.gif[/img]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Code: [Select]
[img height=100 width=500]https://www.overthinkingit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hypnotoad-animated.gif[/img]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 11:35:30 am
Where you guys think I should post this? It uses polyhedral dice so its not really RTD. Maybe just the general roleplaying forum?
Post by: NJW2000 on April 25, 2017, 11:43:56 am
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 12:21:45 pm
...hard one, but I suspect RTD might be a bit better in terms of people interested. I can't imagine someone looking for a RTD rejecting something on the grounds that it used a D20.Technically it uses all the main polyhedral dice but yeah, I get the idea. Hmm.
I'll put it in RTD and maybe stick OOC here to save room.
Post by: Whisperling on April 25, 2017, 12:24:47 pm
...hard one, but I suspect RTD might be a bit better in terms of people interested. I can't imagine someone looking for a RTD rejecting something on the grounds that it used a D20.
This. If the game is suited for the RTD community and has any dice whatsoever, nine times out of ten it should go in RTD.
From what I've seen of it, FG&RP does tend to have a different atmosphere. Not a significant schism by any means, but enough that it probably isn't as good a fit for what you have in mind.
Post by: Devastator on April 25, 2017, 12:39:40 pm
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 12:47:56 pm
Still needs a name...beyond that one I've been using.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on April 25, 2017, 02:17:08 pm
Post by: syvarris on April 25, 2017, 05:26:16 pm
As for the name, what's wrong with Oroboropolis? I suppose the city isn't really infinite anymore, but it's still a neat name.
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 06:18:20 pm
Reflex saves let you dodge in D&D, yet I've never seen a D&D thread in RTD. I'm fairly certain RTD is supposed to just be for simple, quick, 1d6 games. Then again, this subforum is supposed to be for Einsteinian Roulette, but really is more for Piecewise in general.I actually didn't make an Oro game, I made something else.
As for the name, what's wrong with Oroboropolis? I suppose the city isn't really infinite anymore, but it's still a neat name.
But it will probably be fine. I don't think you'll mind.
Post by: piecewise on April 25, 2017, 07:51:56 pm
Post by: Lord_lemonpie on May 02, 2017, 01:11:03 pm