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Other Projects => Other Games => Play With Your Buddies => Topic started by: E. Albright on July 07, 2016, 10:03:06 pm

Title: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things: called due to Foul weather
Post by: E. Albright on July 07, 2016, 10:03:06 pm
Link to NationGen: https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/tag/0.6.14c

Proposed rules: Admin takes your user name, applies some small uniform transformation (so we "keep it fresh", though seeds will effectively vary radically from the last round as it stands), and feeds it into a (publicly available) online hashing application to generate a nation seed. Nation seed is applied to a custom NationGen data setup weighted such that everyone plays Foulspawns. You play with whatever grotesque nation results therefrom.

Settings:

Game name: Bay12GamesRound422 (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound422)
Map: Snerdryn (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn-v11)
Mods: NationGen 0.6.14c (https://github.com/elmokki/nationgen/releases/tag/0.6.14c) with Foulspawn chances altered/Desert of Dust 1.1 (https://mega.nz/#!rJ0A3LDC!z6lvfybOjuCKgU7xCSy3cm_UgnnrCkKkFcjqEgKi7OM)
Era: MA
Disciples: No
Time allowance: 30 hours at start, presumably
Special site frequency: Default
Random event frequency: Common
Story events: Off
Score graphs: Off
Hall of Fame: 15
Artifact forging limit : Limited
Thrones: 16x1/8x2/0x3; 17 points to win
Renaming: Allowed
Research: Normal

Masochists & Guinea Pigs:
AlStar - Charavsjan
E. Albright - Rithbia
Margrave - Halder
Mini - Charbad
Puzzlemaker - Belburg
Shadowlord -  Mazatlan
Il Palazzo - Ag-Manzon

The Departed:
Karlito - Gunbad
USEC_OFFICER - Talor


Spoiler: Previous rounds (Dom3 & 4) (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Standard info on Dominions 4 for the uninitiated (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: How does PBEM work? (click to show/hide)

Useful links:
Dom4 forums on Desura (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum)
Dom4 forums on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/app/259060/discussions/)
An archived snapshot of the Dom3 wiki (http://web.archive.org/web/20130118162532/http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page): Yes, it's still relevant, and it hasn't been replaced yet, so... It has loads of useful information, including strategy guides. Keep in mind that while a lot of this information is still very useful and valid, a lot of it is entirely out-of-date.

Llama Server (http://llamaserver.net/): the automatic hosting server for our game.
Llama Server's map and mod browser (http://www.llamaserver.net/createDom4Game.cgi) (Yes, it's not really a browser, but you can browse the maps and mods here)
Dom4 Mod Inspector (http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/) Very useful. You can browse all the nations, items, spells and sites in the game with it. You can also browse custom mod nations, though it doesn't really support nations using negative montag firstshapes for random recruitment (e.g., NationGen Foulspawn).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: E. Albright on July 07, 2016, 10:08:34 pm
Right, so, some of you lot wanted to engage in the micromanagement hell of a Foulspawn NationGen game. So... interest check? Volunteers? Suggestions? What-have-you?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: Margrave on July 07, 2016, 10:42:37 pm
I will volunteer for the good of Foul-kind...Spawnlings? Spawnanity?
Foul-ups. I'm in.

My only request is not a Disciples game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: Mini on July 07, 2016, 10:44:13 pm
I'm probably in for this, but also can we (I) have a vaguely indepth explanation of how foulspawn work? I gather that they each have individual random things, but little beyond that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: Shadowlord on July 07, 2016, 10:50:56 pm
Sign me up.

0.6.13a or 0.6.13b? OP links to both.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: E. Albright on July 07, 2016, 11:13:17 pm
0.6.13b, assuming we don't have another version out by the time setup is done. Elmokki and I are trying to make another go at "being good" and releasing smaller patches more often, but it's not clear how successful we'll be this time around.

Mini: so NG gives every nation a primary and secondary race, right? If the primary is FS, and the RNG decides against including secondary troops, the following will be true: all infantry, archers, and cavalry (be they normal, elite, or sacred) will be recruited from "template units" which turn into "montag units" upon recruitment. Montag units are jumbled-up Foulspawn with a particular #montag in their definition, and by specifying that montag number (times -1) as the unit's #firstshape, upon recruitment the placeholder template unit becomes one of 4-8 different Foulspawns. The template unit's gcost and rcost are an average of all the units it can possibly be. PD units and starting units will not include template units, because (alas) at game or battle's start those categories of units do not transform to #firstshape so they'd fight one turn (starting) or every battle (PD) as the generic "blank" template unit. Heroes, scouts, "normal" commanders, "special" commanders, priests, and low-tier mages all have a fixed form. High-tier mages have a template form like troops, and 2-3 potential montag forms.

That answer is probably both too and insufficiently detailed, so: FS troops are random w/in a narrow range of outcomes, and commanders except the strongest mages are non-random.

Just mess around with this to see what you're getting into: http://expirebox.com/download/2bef884d9f4de7f44ec94a917af803da.html (48h link)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: AlStar on July 08, 2016, 01:11:08 am
I'm interested - although same request as Margrave - I'd rather have a non-disciples game.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 08, 2016, 02:12:54 am
I tested the link you posted  E. Albright and... uff... intresting.

I also wouldn't want to be a assassin in this world.

Edit: I just spent a entire game moving 150 boars from 80 Big Boars to garrision and then spreading them out to commanders, adding supply items and shufflign around the existing armys - I think thats enough micromangement for a bit.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: E. Albright on July 08, 2016, 06:44:36 am
I've been warning the sweet, optimistic souls that this will be a masochistic exercise in micromanagement for a reason. It's not as bad if you're willing to play at a "moderately optimized", but if you're given to compulsively doing The Very Best You Can Do in a given situation, I feel sorry for you... :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: Karlito on July 08, 2016, 11:22:27 am
Just posting to confirm that I like to inflict pain upon myself.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): game prep
Post by: E. Albright on July 08, 2016, 11:37:55 pm
There will probably be a patch by the end of the weekend or so; as such, I'm going to leave recruitment open. And if I'm a sick little puppy, I might add a size-1 Foulspawn pose or two.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): recruiting
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 09, 2016, 04:30:59 pm
I want to get back into dominions, but.. anyway, if no other games start up count me in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): recruiting
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 08:19:54 am
All right, I'm going to close recruitment. 8 should be plenty for this travesty. We're looking at 0.6.14c in all likelihood. Do we want to generate early/middle/late candidates and vote on which of the three we want to use, or should I just generate one and stick us with it?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 11, 2016, 09:11:41 am
I would go with just generating one and going with it. Does the era only matter for PD? I imagine you have some idea which one would be most viable for foulspawn nations, e.g. if they would have difficulty with LA PD.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 11, 2016, 10:59:45 am
I'll say no EA, just because I like my indy scouts.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 11:17:31 am
In addition to what indies (and mercs) are there to fight and recruit, it also weighs on the probabilities of getting higher-tech national units. With FS it won't make as huge of a difference as with some, but it would make a difference, and possibly a big one with any secondary race troops floating around.

I'd lean EA or MA.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 05:04:14 pm
All righty-dighty, here we go. Since I'm jumping the gun (thus sparing me any temptation to feel obligated to add size-1 FS and push a 0.6.15 release), if anyone finds this batch absolutely too noxious, we can do a mulligan, but this is our MA, so scraping it would limit us to LA or EA (arbitrary rules are arbitrary). As the individual responsible for generating this filth, I will studiously voice no opinion.

Spoiler: Desert of Dust (MA) (click to show/hide)

A thousand words paint a picture: http://pastebin.com/Wwu7nsvn
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 11, 2016, 05:29:21 pm
Is there some way to tell how good a unit is/might be when it says stuff like "Becomes unit of montag 1002 when recruited, wasteunit and Ranged unit?"

In any case, I have no objections.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 05:36:28 pm
"Wasteunit" and things like that mean the unit has waste survival and waste-themed names, or whatever applies in that case. As for montags, at the end of each nation listing in the Advanced Description link, there's a list of montag units for that nation; upon recruitment, the template unit (whose gcost and rcost are averages of all the prices of units with that montag montag) will be permanently replaced with one of the units with that montag chosen at random. E.g.:

Spoiler: Montag 1002 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 11, 2016, 05:46:50 pm
Which one am I?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 06:30:27 pm
Third. Same order as everyone's listed in the first post/alphabetical. So yes, you're the filthy wretch who pulled Vanir as your secondary race/national PD.
 
1234
5678
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Margrave on July 11, 2016, 07:36:21 pm
Oh Halder is a foul-up nation indeed.
Air and blood, such excellent fusion. Zebulon preserve me.

Well let's look at their sacreds, average priests, not too bad air specialized wizards.
Light infantry sacreds. I anticipate so many of them dying.
National spells...nothing. I've been gipped! I want a recount! Other nations get special spells like...

Charbad
National spells:
--------------
Herd of Elephants, Orgy


You know what I think I dodged a bullet I'm okay with no national spells I don't want any.

Hey E. Albright, is there a way to see on that page if a priest can blood sacrifice? No reason.
Also a large number of infantry has venomous fangs/touch of leprosy/sleep/etc so they're going to do horrible, horrible things to each other fighting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 07:45:12 pm
National traits like blood sac get listed in the nation header in the advanced description file that I linked; no sac (or reanimation) nations in this batch.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 11, 2016, 10:30:37 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 05:36:28 pm
upon recruitment, the template unit (whose gcost and rcost are averages of all the prices of units with that montag montag) will be permanently replaced with one of the units with that montag chosen at random. E.g.:

So the template Arch Smothering Disciple has 2 holy levels (and its cost probably reflects that), but since none of the montags do, I won't actually get those, right?

Also, anywhere I can see my cap gem income?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Mini on July 11, 2016, 11:13:41 pm
Looking through my stuff:
Top tier mages claim to have H2, but the things they transform into don't.
There's a thing that has a mount but it doesn't say what it is (search for "  mount" to find it).

Edit: Whoops, I think that's Puzzle's stuff. Either way, still things that are issues.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 11:17:37 pm
Karlito: Cap income is the major magic types for the nation. It's MA, so around 5 total - yours is 2 ruby and 3 garnet.

Karlito/Mini: And as far as magic goes, don't pay too much attention to the montag mages' paths. The transformation is a firstshape, so the target shape's paths are irrelevant. The template mage's paths are carried over when it changes form to its final shape, so your T3 mages do indeed have H2.

W/o looking, I'm guessing an unspecified mount would be some sort of centauroid unit.

It would be nice if I could get a yay or nay from all players; if we're good with this I'll go ahead and post the mod and we can start squabbling over maps and such.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 11, 2016, 11:19:06 pm
Maybe they're waiting for the mod so they can try and fail to look at their units in the dom4 mod inspector. :V

Edit: I've come up with a sort of plan, but it's the kind of plan one comes up with out of desperation when one realizes that one's nation has weak troops, weak cavalry, weak sacreds, weak mages*, weak priests, weak tea...

* More like expensive gambles, except the 70G one. None of them can cast the national spell of course. :3
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 11, 2016, 11:34:51 pm
FWIW, the Mod Inspector contributor who added multi-criteria searching has stated their intention to add montag unit support. That doesn't help anyone NOW, ofc.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 12, 2016, 06:42:21 am
Welp, I'm belburg.  Can't really get a feel for it unless I look at in in-game honestly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2016, 09:38:12 am
Btw, in the text description file, the montag 1041 units all say they are sacred, but the general unit description doesn't.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 09:51:16 am
All right, all right. I was trying to avoid having the players who get a vote (i.e., not me) from getting nitpicky details on the nations before deciding if we wanted to go with them, but that's not the end of the world and we seem to be fairly favorable towards this mess. So:

REVISED LINK:

https://mega.nz/#!rJ0A3LDC!z6lvfybOjuCKgU7xCSy3cm_UgnnrCkKkFcjqEgKi7OM
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 12, 2016, 10:09:14 am
Most of the fun of this sort of thing is just taking whatever terrible thing you've got and working with it, so I vote yes (though from the description file, I think what I have is decidedly less terrible than what some others got, so...)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 12, 2016, 12:32:07 pm
Hmm... Death and Blood magic with some (very) minor Water/Fire. Pro: 55g mage gives +15 resources. Pro(?): Income of 5 death gems/turn - so going to have plenty of those available. Slow to recruit on the big mages, although 25% will have Blood:4 and an additional 10%/4 have Blood:5 to start, which is pretty awesome. Castle PD seems pretty strong.

Starting commander is trash - enough so that I'll have a hard decision if I want to delay getting picking a prophet by a turn so I can pick up one of my (exceptional) flying chieftains or (I fight from the back!) tiny tentacle'd 'champion's.

My sacreds are definitely a mixed bag - one of them has awe... but is only armed with a dagger; another has 3 HtH attacks and is ambidextrous. Everyone's got a ranged weapon, although most of those are sticks and stones.

Foulspawn Ogres seem interesting/strong, although at least one of them about 50% of them are undisciplined.

Foulspawn Cavalry is a real gamble - 30g/10r gets you anywhere from a 1 damage tiny tentacle and hoof attack to a 10 point magic life drain attack to a flying centaur with hoof/venomous fangs/light lance.

Foulspawn infantry is a shit show - everything from 1/3 movement to flyers. Probably need to recruit for several turns running, then form different armies depending on what shows up.

Foulspawn bowmen has some good stuff in there - longbows, composite bows, and even light x-bows, although movement is mixed 1/2.

Overall - seems not horrible! It'll make life interesting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Margrave on July 12, 2016, 01:52:30 pm
I'm okay with my nation. They suck but that came with the territory. I just want to give them a try before the actual game starts.

I'm just disappointed they are so bland. Foulspawns, two bear cavalry, bows and Oriental humans.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:05:03 pm
I'm going to propose Snerdryn (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn-v11) for the map. 117+19. The 19 might seem high for no outright amphibious nations, but I'm pretty sure we all have a few amphibious national troops even if they're not exactly common.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: BFEL on July 12, 2016, 05:24:36 pm
What next? Round 23: It can't get worse then this? Round 24: It got worse? Round 25: Eagerly seeking the bottom?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:37:45 pm
Well, unless I make a hoburg Foulspawn variant, I'm not sure we'd have the hype to back any further superlatives. Admittedly, I've thought that before...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 12, 2016, 05:42:12 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:05:03 pm
I'm going to propose Snerdryn (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn-v11) for the map. 117+19. The 19 might seem high for no outright amphibious nations, but I'm pretty sure we all have a few amphibious national troops even if they're not exactly common.
There's some (well, at least one) commander with sailing, so some water makes things interesting. Seems to be around the right size for 8 anyway.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: BFEL on July 12, 2016, 05:58:10 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:37:45 pm
Well, unless I make a hoburg Foulspawn variant, I'm not sure we'd have the hype to back any further superlatives. Admittedly, I've thought that before...
What next, werehoburgs?

Also, have you managed to make aquatic nations yet? An all aquatic game would have hype.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 12, 2016, 09:43:46 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:05:03 pm
I'm going to propose Snerdryn (http://www.moddb.com/mods/project-omniomicon/addons/snerdryn-v11) for the map. 117+19. The 19 might seem high for no outright amphibious nations, but I'm pretty sure we all have a few amphibious national troops even if they're not exactly common.

No objections.

P.S. One of my foulspawn is a wereeagle or something.

Perhaps the next game will be circus-themed. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 01:00:59 pm
Thoughts on thrones? 16+8+0/17 to win?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 13, 2016, 01:07:07 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 01:00:59 pm
Thoughts on thrones? 16+8+0/17 to win?
Is that going by number of thrones, or number of points? (16 1-pointers, 8 2-pointers or 16 1-pointers, 4 2-pointers?)

Either way would be fine by me.

The map proposed before looks fine too, btw.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 13, 2016, 01:10:11 pm
Is it just me or is there massive variations in the types of assault (weapons, claws, tentacles, crossbows, spit, fire) and utility of foulspawn, but somewhat less variations in defence skills (i.e. resistance to elements, just high defence, shields, astral shields, fire shields, etc?)?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 13, 2016, 02:25:37 pm
Hey, these guys aren't sacred when I recruit them...

Quote
- Sacreds:
** Hell Follower (Foulspawn), 35g, 6r, Sting, Venomous Bite, Pincer, Furs, Half Helmet.
--- Has montag 1041, strong, can enter berserker rage and Infantry elite
** Tainted Avenger (Foulspawn), 21g, 3r, Weak Bite, Paralyze, Tail Slap, Leather Hauberk, Leather Cap, Buckler.
--- Has montag 1041, can shapeshift into a hawk, castlemaster and Infantry elite
** Primal Avenger (Foulspawn), 29g, 30r, Trident, Chain Mail Hauberk, Crested Helmet, Shield.
--- Has montag 1041, can enter berserker rage and Infantry elite
** Sentinel of Rock (Foulspawn), 10g, 8r, Strangulation, Javelin, Scale Mail Cuirass, Leather Cap, Buckler.
--- Has montag 1041, patrol and Infantry elite
** Avenging Sentinel (Foulspawn), 30g, 7r, Bite, Machaka Spear, Furs, Leather Cap, Buckler.
--- Has montag 1041, castlemaster and Infantry elite

Apparently my only actual sacred is a 40g lizard with 9 defense, 8 body protection, and no shield. :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 05:14:29 pm
Yes, that's an oversight on the montag unit labeling; elites and sacreds fall under the heading of "sacreds" internally rather than "elites", so the montag descriptions label the section as such. You have elites, not sacreds; sacreds have "Sacred" as the first attribute in their advanced description.

If you can't stand the thought of non-foul sacreds we can either do a full re-roll or just tweak your seed. Or I suppose I could manually edit your elites to be sacreds, and your sacred to be elite. That would probably be the easiest solution, come to think of it...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 05:17:17 pm
AlStar: 16x1/8x2/0x3, 17 pts to win.

BFEL: we're actively re-visiting undersea nations today. I'll probably leave the roster generation coding to Elmokki, so I don't know when it'll come to fruition, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 13, 2016, 07:14:39 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 05:14:29 pm
Yes, that's an oversight on the montag unit labeling; elites and sacreds fall under the heading of "sacreds" internally rather than "elites", so the montag descriptions label the section as such. You have elites, not sacreds; sacreds have "Sacred" as the first attribute in their advanced description.

If you can't stand the thought of non-foul sacreds we can either do a full re-roll or just tweak your seed. Or I suppose I could manually edit your elites to be sacreds, and your sacred to be elite. That would probably be the easiest solution, come to think of it...

Ahh, that explains it. I think I'll just try to deal with it, possibly adjust my pretender design. The sobek sacreds seem competent-ish.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 13, 2016, 07:29:06 pm
Okay, right, technically THAT is the easiest solution.  :P

It should be slightly clearer in 0.6.16.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 14, 2016, 02:07:41 pm
24 thrones is a lot more than I'm used to playing with, but it should make it hard to rush them. We are talking about just more than 1 in 6 provinces being a throne province, but I guess that's just part of the masochism of the game. I guess the low level throne guardians usually aren't too hard to deal with.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 14, 2016, 03:15:47 pm
Can Palazzo in?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Margrave on July 14, 2016, 03:35:26 pm
I'm okay with more people joining, but I'm just one player.

I must warn you though, there is a reason only masochists applied, micro-managing 4-6 subtypes of foul spawns per recruit-able unit makes EoFS look like Civ V.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 14, 2016, 04:31:05 pm
I'm game for spreading the pain a bit thinner, and the selected map should still be okay with it.

Spoiler: Here, have a thing (click to show/hide)

Desert of Dust 1.1: https://mega.nz/#!rJ0A3LDC!z6lvfybOjuCKgU7xCSy3cm_UgnnrCkKkFcjqEgKi7OM

Ag-Manzon is the last nation on the list, and it's all yours...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 14, 2016, 04:32:46 pm
I'll be curiously watching your suffering from a safe distance.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 14, 2016, 06:03:47 pm
Apparently this was a thing while I wasn't looking so... Yeah. Joining to suffer with everyone else. The nation I was assigned was Talor, right? Just to be 100% clear?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 14, 2016, 08:07:01 pm
Stupid question, but how do I actually load this into the game to play with it?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 14, 2016, 09:43:25 pm
You know where your saved games are? Go up and you should find a mods folder. Extract the zip file in there so that the .dm is in the mods folder (not a subfolder named after the zip file).

Then you have to enable the mod in Dominions 4, in the Mods menu.

Then you can make a pretender.

When you are going to load the game, though, there's a bug in Dom4 which makes it fail to load the mod properly (and thus show no nations) unless you hit Create Game and back out (or re-load the mod, or another method) before trying to load the game. (Unless it's been fixed since the last time I played a nationgen game, but I don't think there's been a patch since then)

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 14, 2016, 09:58:01 pm
I'll set up the game tomorrow, and we can hopefully be submitted and running by the weekend's end.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 15, 2016, 07:11:36 am
Welp looking at my nation in game... it's interesting.  My primary mage starts as an old geezer, with old age starting at 50 and the mage starting at 68, which is annoying.  But I also have a commander that gives me resource production bonus, so that's good.  Also some amphibian commanders.  Don't even know what kind of pretender I should have.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Margrave on July 15, 2016, 09:55:55 am
Make this game into pure perversion.
The Freak Lord with Nature and Blood. Just start churning out crossbreeds by the millions, unit production and summoning.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 15, 2016, 05:42:40 pm
Game is posted (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Bay12GamesRound422). Submit pretenders at your leisure.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 15, 2016, 06:54:23 pm
I've submitted mine. (posting since unexpected nation isn't too helpful)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 15, 2016, 11:57:54 pm
I just sent mine in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 16, 2016, 09:54:32 am
Pretender Submitted.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 16, 2016, 11:48:30 am
Likewise.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 16, 2016, 12:01:50 pm
It occurs to me that if score graphs were on, "Unexpected Nation" would make it rather difficult to tell anything from the llamaserver page.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 16, 2016, 12:09:45 pm
It's strange, in previous games Llamaserver has shown the correct custom names for nations. I wonder if it's just for pretender submission that it's not doing that anymore, or if the new version of Nationgen messed with whatever Llama was doing to pull the correct names.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Margrave on July 16, 2016, 01:30:45 pm
God of all Foulspawns across space, time and space again submitted.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 16, 2016, 04:26:23 pm
It would have to be the latest Dominions patch, not NG. NG just makes mods; there's not anything particularly unique about the ones it makes.

I wanna say it was submission last time, but in all honesty I'm no longer sure. Hopefully it's just submission...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Mini on July 16, 2016, 06:18:43 pm
Sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 16, 2016, 07:25:19 pm
Sent, hopefully I did it right.  This is going to be interesting, usually I have some sort of strategy before going in.  With this, I uh... I got nothing.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: BFEL on July 16, 2016, 07:37:14 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 12, 2016, 05:37:45 pm
Well, unless I make a hoburg Foulspawn variant, I'm not sure we'd have the hype to back any further superlatives. Admittedly, I've thought that before...
I just thought of the worst thing ever.

Is it possible to take out all the little sanities like "NG will ensure/limit the number of commanders/mages/troops for a nation"?
Because if you could make a special build that DOESN'T do that, and is 100% literally random (call it the Gift of Kurgi release :P) then I think we'd have a round or ten left in us.

No longer would games be torn between just "really awesome" and "incredibly bad" but could go even further to "hopelessly OP" and "literally unplayable"
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 16, 2016, 07:59:25 pm
That would require altering the code, but it could of course be done. I suspect it wouldn't be worth doing, though; it would be like playing Russian roulette.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 17, 2016, 10:57:58 pm
We're up to 7 submissions according to llamaserver, only missing two now.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 18, 2016, 04:01:35 am
Oi, sorry! Got meself into a family wedding over the weekend and had to regenerate. I'll get around to doing it soon.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 18, 2016, 06:59:25 am
Work has sucked up most of my weekend. I'll look into it tonight. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 18, 2016, 02:10:36 pm
So which one of you was #8, or do we have an interloper?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 18, 2016, 03:31:36 pm
Me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 19, 2016, 12:37:29 pm
Quote from: USEC_OFFICER on July 18, 2016, 06:59:25 am
Work has sucked up most of my weekend. I'll look into it tonight. Sorry about that.
Off with his head!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 19, 2016, 03:12:21 pm
Patience, patience. We need them to submit a body with a head first...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 20, 2016, 01:56:13 pm
So, in the interests of not just starting promptly. but also of having players whose schedules can currently handle this micromanagement hell, the game will start at or around 0000 UTC tonight, be it with 8 players or be it with 9.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 20, 2016, 02:45:26 pm
Probably with 9 players, seeing as I just sent my pretender in. Finally.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 20, 2016, 03:02:36 pm
Arrrrrrrgh, all Unexpected Nations again...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 20, 2016, 03:03:05 pm
At least they appear to be in order.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 20, 2016, 04:18:44 pm
The first mercenary is Ugrek. How fitting.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 20, 2016, 05:31:56 pm
Welp, did my first turn.  This is going to be interesting.  Bleh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 20, 2016, 07:02:10 pm
I want to go in like 3 different directions, all at once.

Do I want to make my starting commander prophet? He sucks, but he's there.

Starting scout? No command ability, and I just know I'll have him 'sneak' into a province when I need him fighting at some point.

Elite commander? Can go amphibious. Can lead 80.

Flying commander? Flies! Can lead 120. Expensive.

Of course, the second two both require an extra turn and mean my research and expansion is that much further behind...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 20, 2016, 10:07:58 pm
AHAHAHAHA I SUCK SO MUCH AT THIS GAME

Yeah so I probably lost in the first turn, hahaha.  Wow.  Sent my pretender as part of my army against a province and she just... died...

Sooo yeah... I may just bow out now, or something.  I am an idiot.

Edit:  Would it be possible to re-do last turn?  That was gloriously stupid of me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 20, 2016, 11:05:53 pm
Your priests can call her back, though, if you need her for something. That doesn't really seem like a good reason for a do-over to me.

P.S. Immortal pretenders who stay in their own dominion don't have that problem as long as you hold your capital.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 20, 2016, 11:36:53 pm
I'm not really sympathetic regarding a decision to send a pretender out on turn 1 blind. There are some pretenders that I'd feel okay doing it with, but none of them are on the list of pretenders that I'd suspect Freakazoidette, Princess of Earthquakes, the Invincible and Ever-triumphant might be. In any case, if you send something out blind, you need to make peace with the idea of it immediately dying. It's a nice big gamble to jump-start your expansion... but it's a big gamble.

It's 50 priest-level-turns to recall a pretender. That's not nothing, but at this point it'll probably mostly end up being like she's imprisoned or sleeping and a half. You still have all the other resources of your nation (holy Hell, I hadn't really looked very closely at most of the other nations; your sacreds are vile abominations), and it's not like the rest of us are perforce in enviable circumstances. I can assure you I'm not.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 21, 2016, 02:08:06 am
The pretenders paths will also be reduced by 1 across the board, incase you had specific globals or anything in mind.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 21, 2016, 06:50:51 am
Alright, I'll live with my mistakes.  :(
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 21, 2016, 01:49:53 pm
AI/UI-intensive patch just posted [Edit: and by "posted", I mean "was announced as being released", not "actually queued up and started downloading"][Edit 2: now I mean "is downloaded"]. For now, I'm not delaying.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 21, 2016, 02:42:40 pm
I curated this list of UI changes from the changelog, for anyone interested.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 21, 2016, 04:45:01 pm
Hey Albright, some random NationGen questions - what was the reasoning behind the decision to go with randomized elder mages, but fixed scouts/commanders/priests/trainee & senior mages for the Foulspawn?

Another question: I see that some nations got national spells - how are those decided? From what I can see, they're all lifted from base nations, not randomly generated (I can only imagine the headache of trying to get something like that balanced!) - is the ability to cast the spell(s) by the national mages factored in at all? Are the spells purely gravy for the nations that got them, or is there a balancing cost somewhere?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Shadowlord on July 21, 2016, 05:14:39 pm
Quote from: AlStar on July 21, 2016, 04:45:01 pm
is the ability to cast the spell(s) by the national mages factored in at all?

For the record, my national spell is an ED spell, and I have no national mages with death paths.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 21, 2016, 06:16:20 pm
Priests/scouts/commanders/low-tier-mages not randomizing is basically a "conservation of unit ID" thing. FS nations are already absolute hogs about eating up unit IDs, and at a certain point the engine starts making rumbling noises in response. Having some commanders fixed helps slow the arrival of that moment.

Available spells are based on available paths for a nation (generally all paths for a spell/set of related spells aren't necessary, but having all increases the odds), national race, and national themes. Right now the only custom spells out there are an earth-based communion analogue that only pale ones have a chance to get.

Full lists are under data/spells/...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 22, 2016, 12:50:52 am
Sorry to do this to y'all in the early game, but I'm camping this weekend, and so won't be doing any turns until Sunday evening (America time). I had hoped to get one more turn in tonight, but the stars were not in my favor.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 22, 2016, 03:19:51 am
Meh, LS has been down for a day anyway. A fast start just wasn't in the cards.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 24, 2016, 05:06:47 pm
How is it that we've still got two outstanding turns?

I mean, it's no surprise that Karlito's turn isn't in, since they said that they'd be away till sometime tonight... but who's the slacker that's taken several days to finish turn 3?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 24, 2016, 05:14:11 pm
Puzzlemaker.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 24, 2016, 06:31:13 pm
ohshit sorry

Sent in

I kept slacking because I knew someone else was slacking, then forgot about it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: Karlito on July 24, 2016, 10:46:56 pm
You know what I love to see? Two foreign capitals on turn 3. :/
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: AlStar on July 25, 2016, 01:48:00 am
Quote from: Karlito on July 24, 2016, 10:46:56 pm
You know what I love to see? Two foreign capitals on turn 3. :/
With your scout, hopefully.

It's weird - the map's big enough that we really shouldn't be tripping over one another so early, yet here my expansion army is right next to another expansion army on turn 3.

Edit: could we get a list with all the players alongside their nations? Yes, I know I can look it up myself by cross-referencing the player list with the pastebin entries... but that seems far harder than it need be.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 25, 2016, 02:30:41 am
Yeah I usually get confused with players, too - thats why I made that nice list in round21, just easy to pm ppl and all that if the names are hyperlinked.

Also: Maybe the Thrones shuffeld the player capitals around?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): setup
Post by: E. Albright on July 25, 2016, 07:44:54 am
I did some tests on this map with this many thrones, and it was nothing like this. This is absurd, even if it seems completely typical for the MP games I play. Shades of 4.10...

Also, no, not "with your scout". More like "with your Drakon"... :-\

[First post now has nations by names]

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 25, 2016, 08:21:54 pm
So, I am having a weird problem.  I keep trying to build priests, but they all come out as just sacred.  I checked, and they say they have priest level 1, so I don't know what's up with that.  Anyone else having a similar problem?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 25, 2016, 10:04:28 pm
I can't duplicate that. Are you sure you aren't trying to recruit Temple Masters or Tomb Masters? Those two aren't priests, just sacred. When I recruit Anthamants, Mist Masters, Just Masters, Hands of Illustrious Deserts (or Callers of Illustrious Deserts), they all have H1 (or H2) as expected.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 26, 2016, 06:33:47 am
Yeah it says level 1 priest on the unit when I try to build it.  Once it's built, it's different.  Interestingly enough it's not the only thing missing either.  Weird.

Edit:  Yep I am getting weird things happening in my game, I can't actually build any units so far.  Every new turn my units haven't been built.  Wat.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on July 26, 2016, 09:16:52 pm
My troubleshooting instincts suspect user error.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on July 26, 2016, 09:19:19 pm
While I'm not willing to go right out and put the blame on Puzzlemaker, I will certainly mention that I've had exactly no problems with recruiting commanders and troops (besides the fact that I'm recruiting far fewer of the ones I want.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 26, 2016, 11:08:28 pm
I'd say re-download and re-install the mod. That's the only "fix" I can think of.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 27, 2016, 07:02:24 am
Quote from: Karlito on July 26, 2016, 09:16:52 pm
My troubleshooting instincts suspect user error.

Yep it's probably my fault somehow.  I'll try re-downloading the mod and troubleshooting.  Just thought I would mention something to see if anyone else has had trouble/knows what I am doing wrong.

Augh.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on July 27, 2016, 08:22:21 am
Are your orders otherwise processing? Commanders moving around and such?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on July 27, 2016, 02:41:15 pm
It is turn 7 and I can account for 2/3 of the players. Why are you all in my corner??
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 27, 2016, 02:51:14 pm
I'm suddenly reminded of the density of the non-hoburg lands in 4.15. Is Ag-Manzon off in an empty corner of the map breeding like there's no tomorrow?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on July 27, 2016, 03:01:05 pm
Don't worry - we're surrounded by these pesky throne provinces and can't get anywhere fun because of them.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on July 27, 2016, 03:01:37 pm
Quote from: Karlito on July 27, 2016, 02:41:15 pm
It is turn 7 and I can account for 2/3 of the players. Why are you all in my corner??

Because you have expanded really fast? :V
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 28, 2016, 07:30:24 am
Well I re-installed the mod and that seems to have fixed it, hooray.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 28, 2016, 01:57:54 pm
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd go with an assumption you were using the original pre-Il Palazzo version of the mod, which is superficially mostly the same but likely has a bunch of mismatched unit, etc. id numbers. I dunno, though. Glad to hear the messy mess is no longer messed up...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 28, 2016, 06:00:53 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on July 28, 2016, 01:57:54 pm
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd go with an assumption you were using the original pre-Il Palazzo version of the mod, which is superficially mostly the same but likely has a bunch of mismatched unit, etc. id numbers. I dunno, though. Glad to hear the messy mess is no longer messed up...

Yep, you are probably right.  Once I got it working it turns out that the units I was building were not the units I thought I was building.  Oh well, now to play catch up for the 8 turns I lose!  Also my pretender is dead because I am an idiot!  Yay! I am so screwed
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: ThtblovesDF on July 29, 2016, 04:58:11 am
Had any player v player fights yet? I assume the spawns are decent at expanding
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 29, 2016, 05:06:25 pm
AFAIK, "Bay12 chivalry" is in full effect, so no wars yet. We're not even to turn 10, though.

I agree FS are good at expanding. Probably too good. I may have to tweak things so it's harder to recruit endless streams of ogreish brutes.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on July 30, 2016, 01:46:43 am
Quote from: E. Albright on July 29, 2016, 05:06:25 pm
AFAIK, "Bay12 chivalry" is in full effect, so no wars yet. We're not even to turn 10, though.
It just strikes me as 'good sense' - unless you're playing a 1v1, where you can make a quick dash for the enemy's capital in the hopes of cutting off his production and gold, you're going to be actively leaving indie provinces unconquered around you - provinces which will almost certainly be snatched up by your neighbors.

Even if you manage to successfully fight your way to the enemy capital... now what? Your army is stuck sieging - and is going to be for a long, long time. Meanwhile, now you look like a good target for your neighbors that have been growing ever more prosperous from indie provinces that should have been yours (and almost certainly have been taking far less troop losses then you have waging your early war.)

In the end, all you end up with is causing both you and the guy you attacked early to lose.

As long as there are (easy) indies to take out, it's in everyone's best interests to fight them before engaging another player... Or, at least, that's how I see it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on July 30, 2016, 04:52:58 am
I don't disagree. My phrasing was more than a little driven by commentary/arguments elsewhere about how "real" competitive" metagames work... which always seem to have a barely-concealed disgust for diplomacy and an unstated assumption that proper wars are tidy little 1v1 affairs.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 30, 2016, 05:06:57 am
So Bay12 Chivalry involves politely ignoring each other's lands in the early game and giant world wars in the late game? Sounds about right to me. From what I've seen online, the metagame tends to involve more 'Kekeke' and early aggression than here. It varies from place to place and person to person, of course. But I've seen it stated a couple times that if you need to conduct diplomacy to survive then you're weak and need to rethink your build/strategy. Maybe not in those exact words of course, but the intent was there.

EDIT: It's not a proper Bay12 game unless someone is on the receiving end of a threeway. And winning.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 30, 2016, 06:30:04 pm
Who is late?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on July 30, 2016, 06:48:06 pm
Quote from: Puzzlemaker on July 30, 2016, 06:30:04 pm
Who is late?
Assuming that the list on Llama is in the same order as the player list (which I think - but am not certain is true), USEC_OFFICER is the one still outstanding.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 30, 2016, 08:07:55 pm
Yeah. I, uh, kinda lost track of time. It's all good though. I've sorted out this turn and the next.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 01, 2016, 03:50:27 am
I found Dominions MP (here) to play like a nice round of magic EDH - you murder each other over slight offences, but also try really hard not to make everyone rally against you.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 01, 2016, 01:48:39 pm
Huh, I just noticed that one of my flying troops (and only the one) can only move 2 provinces. I didn't even know that was a thing - I just thought that anything that can fly automatically moved 3 (or, in the case of angelic units, 4 or 5) provinces a turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 01, 2016, 02:21:31 pm
There's a few in vanilla. MA/LA Caelum have a few heavily armored troops with only 2 map move for example.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: BFEL on August 02, 2016, 06:15:00 am
Quote from: USEC_OFFICER on July 30, 2016, 05:06:57 am
So Bay12 Chivalry involves politely ignoring each other's lands in the early game and giant world wars in the late game? Sounds about right to me. From what I've seen online, the metagame tends to involve more 'Kekeke' and early aggression than here. It varies from place to place and person to person, of course. But I've seen it stated a couple times that if you need to conduct diplomacy to survive then you're weak and need to rethink your build/strategy. Maybe not in those exact words of course, but the intent was there.

EDIT: It's not a proper Bay12 game unless someone is on the receiving end of a threeway. And winning.
Personally I think most of my problem being successful in MP games is that I follow the chivalry to the extreme. First game I was in I could have crushed the whole northern half of the world if I hadn't limited myself (I thought it was literally forbidden to fight in early game at this point mind) because of the ridonkeylous sacreds I had.
Instead, I waited for the little dudes next to me to get enslave mind and wreck my shit.

So yeah, forgive me if I go into games in the future with a more aggressive mindset.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 02, 2016, 09:56:56 pm
Ah, nothing quite like the 'joy' of recruiting a bunch of 30g/10r cavalry and ending up with the majority share of them being:
Hoof (Dmg:13), Tiny Tentacle (Dmg:1)
and Hoof (Dmg:13), Tentacle (Dmg:6)

Instead of:
Hoof (Dmg:13), Life Drain (Dmg:10 (magic));
Hoof (Dmg:13), Light Lance (Dmg:16);
Hoof (Dmg:13), Touch of Leprosy (Dmg:10 (magic)), flight;
Bite (Dmg:18), Barbed Tail (Dmg:13 (para poison)), Axe (Dmg: 18), flight;
or Hoof (Dmg:15), Venomous Fangs (Dmg:13 (para poison)), Light Lance (Dmg:18), flight.

#FoulSpawnProblems
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 04, 2016, 11:11:41 am
I swear, hoburgs fight better than those FS ogres of mine.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 04, 2016, 11:55:54 am
I must say Karlito, that Drakon of yours is quite the beast (figuratively and literally) - especially with body ethereal/temper flesh buffing him up. He's good fun to watch (when he's busy killing other peoples troops, mind.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 04, 2016, 05:47:08 pm
...such a pity none of the 160 damage that got through happened to be leprous... Ah, well, there's always next time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 04, 2016, 06:55:05 pm
It's definitely a weapon with an expiration date, but hopefully he'll be useful until I'm completely wiped out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 08, 2016, 08:25:58 am
One thing that's struck me in the foulspawn-on-foulspawn combat that I've been in or my scouts have seen - it's damn hard to tell who's on which team!

Something that visually identifies any given foulspawn as belonging to a certain nation would be worth thinking about - perhaps it might be possible to change the hue of the foulspawn's body, depending on the nation? Ideally connected with the flag color, although I don't know what order Nationgen creates things (or if something like this is even possible.)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 08, 2016, 08:42:16 am
You can always press 'c' in battle to highlight units with colour-coded tiles.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 08, 2016, 09:58:27 am
AlStar, it's something I did think about. The issue is that the more armor a FS has, the less real estate there is for displaying the national color, which reflects in recolor masks on units as well as flags. Small FS have colored pants and jackets (plus sometimes plumes, and some shields), but the bigger ones have only shields and plumes since they all were furs. Mages have a bit more room for color, ofc. But I can't really add more color to FS w/o making their body parts and/or armor less distinct instead of their nationality. I'd rather their nationality be indistinct than their composition or armament, especially since there are as Il Palazzo points out UI solutions to this ambiguity, and also because FS are normally a rare-tier race type (0.1 basechance, vs. 0.2 minors, 0.3 majors, and 0.5 prolifics).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 09, 2016, 06:55:47 pm
Man, only now I've realised that my commanders can make for some interesting thugs - one has no arm slots but four misc ones, and another one has four hands apparently (not that the weapon loadout or sprite would suggest that). I wonder if GoR-ing troops can result in similarly outlandish chassis.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 09, 2016, 07:10:30 pm
Quote from: Il Palazzo on August 09, 2016, 06:55:47 pm
Man, only now I've realised that my commanders can make for some interesting thugs - one has no arm slots but four misc ones, and another one has four hands apparently (not that the weapon loadout or sprite would suggest that). I wonder if GoR-ing troops can result in similarly outlandish chassis.
Ooh, neat - I didn't even think to check that out...

*checks commanders*

A bunch with no hands who are otherwise normal and a couple with no head slots that are also otherwise normal. Boo.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 09, 2016, 07:17:23 pm
Yeah, Ag-Manzon looks special. And by "special", I mean buggy. Hmm, I have a couple like theirs, too. More data points for the fixing, I suppose.

My initial before-I-sourcedive suspicion is that GoR-ing troops will be disappointing, and this is a bug with commanders. We shall see, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 10, 2016, 09:36:40 am
Quote from: E. Albright on August 09, 2016, 07:17:23 pm
Yeah, Ag-Manzon looks special. And by "special", I mean buggy. Hmm, I have a couple like theirs, too. More data points for the fixing, I suppose.

My initial before-I-sourcedive suspicion is that GoR-ing troops will be disappointing, and this is a bug with commanders. We shall see, though.
Check out Halder - half of its commanders suffer from phantom arms syndrome.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Margrave on August 10, 2016, 10:38:00 am
No! Don't look at Halder, ignore it's amazing possibilities with Thugs.

IGNORE ME.

edit: also please ignore that some of my commanders start out with Battle Fright and that I've been forced to use them to lead my forces.
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 11, 2016, 11:39:54 am
Quote from: Margrave on August 10, 2016, 10:38:00 am
edit: also please ignore that some of my commanders start out with Battle Fright and that I've been forced to use them to lead my forces.
PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.
How often is commander morale actually checked? While I could certainly see that as being a !!bad thing!! if your commander took a hit from a stray arrow, I wouldn't think that any commander that was leading 'from the back', as they say, would suffer any ill effects from having poor morale.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Margrave on August 11, 2016, 06:09:05 pm
I'm not sure, all I can say is that the number of battles where I've lost simply because my Commander decided that he'd have enough being in the sun is nonzero. And the situation downgraded (upgraded?) from "tragedy" to "tragical farce".
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 12, 2016, 04:59:57 pm
... and that is why nations with cheap, easy access to 2S2A mages (only 155g and not slow to recruit) need to be crushed immediately, preferably before they learn Thunder Strike.  (Ouch.)

Might've been different if my flyers had decided to actually attack the back ranks instead of the huge wall of glamor troops... but such is life.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 12, 2016, 11:18:17 pm
Well if you're going to crush me; crush me. Don't make camp for 5 months while I finish essential research.  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 12, 2016, 11:26:29 pm
Your capital scares us. We'd much rather you just died quietly, due to running out of candles.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 12:57:46 am
Quote from: AlStar on August 12, 2016, 11:26:29 pm
Your capital scares us. We'd much rather you just died quietly, due to running out of candles.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 12:26:05 pm
Next turn is two hours away and Talor hasn't sent any orders in.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 13, 2016, 08:11:23 pm
Is Talor Unexpected Nation #3 on Llama?

If so, we might need to look into a replacement - they (or someone, anyway... I desperately miss when Llama detected the names of custom nations) has staled the last 4 turns in a row.

Even if it is Talor - who is currently in rather dire straights - I wouldn't say that they're completely doomed - they've got a castle with troops, even if Talor itself is currently under siege.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 08:46:49 pm
Wouldn't #3 be karlito/gunbad?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 13, 2016, 08:51:51 pm
Quote from: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 08:46:49 pm
Wouldn't #3 be karlito/gunbad?
It's definitely not, since they've been rather aggressively fighting back these past couple of turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 09:13:20 pm
Oops! :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 13, 2016, 09:50:09 pm
The stale list is not in the same order as the turn submitted list. The turn submission list matches the nation numbers in the mod. The stale list? No idea, but it's not the same. However, I will note that Talor has been the last nation unsubmitted these past several turns. From what I've seen, everything points to that being our staler.

...

Also, by what my scouts have seen, at this point we probably don't want to hand Talor to a sub unless it's someone we don't like and want to sour on Dominions.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 13, 2016, 10:27:39 pm
Yeah, afaik they have only two forts left, one of which is already under siege and the other of which will probably also be next turn. (And no other provinces)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 14, 2016, 11:52:50 am
Quote from: E. Albright on August 13, 2016, 09:50:09 pm
The stale list is not in the same order as the turn submitted list. The turn submission list matches the nation numbers in the mod. The stale list? No idea, but it's not the same.
Yeah it's weird, being also different from the order nations appear in the confirmation email, which I think is pretender submission order.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 14, 2016, 11:54:56 am
It never really matters (or mattered) with normal nations with normal names. :V
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on August 14, 2016, 05:25:29 pm
Yeah I staled out, I was really busy and didn't really get home for awhile.  Also, I am going on vacation next week, but I have a laptop so I should be able to submit my turns.  Hopefully.  Maybe.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 15, 2016, 02:06:41 pm
Pushed 12h since we had 3 (now 2, including Talor) outstanding turns at under 2h to host time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 15, 2016, 02:26:19 pm
I'm wondering if we shouldn't force Talor to CPU control - the AI isn't great, but it'll do better than not having anyone at the helm at all - they do still have an unsieged castle, after all.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 15, 2016, 02:34:55 pm
Talor has clearly given up on playing, Belburg is fighting their last battles. I'll PM USEC_OFFICER. Puzzlemaker might still have some fight in him, but if he doesn't really feel like going through the motions, he should delegate the responsibility of making his last stand to AI.

It's always surprising to me that this has to be repeated again and again, but it's always a better choice to set yourself to AI than just abandon the game. That's just basic courtesy, and people will not think less of you if you do that (but they will if you just leave it).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 15, 2016, 03:41:20 pm
In the battles I saw, Puzzlemaker was giving as good as he got, if not better. That won't save him, but it's still damn good and something to be proud of in that situation.

In situations like that or Talor's, I've generally only survived and come back (to some degree) through extensive diplomacy. I don't recall ever going on from it to win, but I enjoy seeing what happens to the rest of the world and you can't do that if you've been defeated.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on August 15, 2016, 06:32:44 pm
Yeah, honestly shocked I won the battles I have so far.  Thinking I can hold on a little longer.  I'll try to keep up during the vacation, but if I can't I will set myself to AI, no worries.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 17, 2016, 07:16:20 am
Is it just me, or are armies in this roundd much more fuckhueg than usual?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 17, 2016, 07:34:02 am
My guess is that it's harder to get some god-awful OP sacred, so normal (I use the term loosely) armies are the order of the day. Also, since any FS enjoy resource costs averaged across all possible shapes, those are probably lower than they often would be as well (although I'll admit I'm not happy with how prevalent ogrish FS are - that probably needs watered down). These are just from-the-hip impressions, though.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 21, 2016, 03:00:44 pm
The last stand of Talor was a crying shame - his thug should've been able to massacre those archers... if only he'd had orders to attack.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Puzzlemaker on August 23, 2016, 10:07:58 am
Hey, sorry everyone I have missed a whole bunch of turns... the vacation was really fun, but I didn't have enough time, energy and internet to do the turns.  I'll probably do one tonight, see how bad my position is.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 24, 2016, 09:31:44 pm
Welp, that was my last gasp. I think I'll be going AI; not terribly interested in continuing to play this out.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 25, 2016, 04:02:35 am
Thanks for playing Karlito!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on August 25, 2016, 05:56:30 am
Karlito: Congrats on surviving so long and doing so well with three nations all trying to murder you!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 25, 2016, 01:05:00 pm
Good show, Karlito.

My advice for future games would be to not have a forum name that hashes to roiling masses of scary vanir.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 25, 2016, 01:08:11 pm
My post game analysis said pretty much the same thing. :P
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 26, 2016, 12:17:41 am
While I can't say that I was entirely pleased with how all of this turn went (I'm not sure if I should be flattered or annoyed by my apparent rise to Enemy Number One); I must say I was rather happy about this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 26, 2016, 03:12:34 am
Yup.
Those flyers should be set to guard commander instead of being sent to attack.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Mini on August 26, 2016, 07:00:06 pm
I'm very busy for the next couple of days, so I'm going to need an extension until tuesday for the next turn (this turn is done, I'll probably get around to it on monday, but it's not definite).
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 30, 2016, 01:04:04 pm
I've sent the current turn, but I might not be able to do another one until Saturday.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 31, 2016, 12:01:09 pm
Quite the glorious battle at Icden, I think you'll agree, Albright.  :P

Any time you guys would like to turn your forces towards the real threat to the world: Ag-Manzon, that'd be great.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 31, 2016, 01:13:40 pm
What, wait, who? Why not Belburg?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 31, 2016, 01:29:53 pm
I'd say that the clash in Icden was roughly as glorious as your devastating invasion of Ultima Typhia.

Your claims to find Ag-M to be the real threat to the world would be decidely more convincing if you were concentrating the majority of your forces fighting them instead of retreating before them while vigorously grabbing former Gunbadian territories, attacking Rithbian territories, and sending hordes into Charbad...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: AlStar on August 31, 2016, 01:42:52 pm
Quote from: E. Albright on August 31, 2016, 01:29:53 pm
I'd say that the clash in Icden was roughly as glorious as your devastating invasion of Ultima Typhia.

Your claims to find Ag-M to be the real threat to the world would be decidely more convincing if you were concentrating the majority of your forces fighting them instead of retreating before them while vigorously grabbing former Gunbadian territories, attacking Rithbian territories, and sending hordes into Charbad...
My armies are fighting Ag-M... I'm just losing against them - they've got two of my castles sieged. Besides, Charbad attacked (and continues to attack) me first - without provocation, when there was still a free throne he could've gone for first, no less.

Edit: Charbad, not Gunbad. In Gunbad I only took what was rightfully mine - you and Mazatlan took by far the lions share of that conquest.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 31, 2016, 02:17:42 pm
What's with those damn hidden fortresses? I've found like four already. My lands begin to look like the Maginot Line.

I've sent the turn in, because I'm procrastinating with stupid games instead of trying to get my work in on time.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: E. Albright on August 31, 2016, 04:01:55 pm
Quote from: AlStar on August 31, 2016, 01:42:52 pm
In Gunbad I only took what was rightfully mine - you and Mazatlan took by far the lions share of that conquest.

In Gunbad, we did the lion's share of the fighting, and you just so happened to repeatedly end up with territory we'd captured and Gunbad had recaptured - but how DARE we think about keeping territory that you lost to Gunbad but we recaptured. Don't try to play the righteous martyr...

--

Il Palazzo, this has been a game that's seen A TON of free forts popping up everywhere, from one source or another...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Karlito on August 31, 2016, 04:23:44 pm
Viva Gunbad! The Van will rise again!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 06, 2016, 11:36:26 am
Sorceresses in Ag-Manzon employ, a story in three acts.
Act I:
Plonked one in the middle of an army to cast storm. Skeletal riders successfully execute a flanking manoeuvre and kill almost nobody but her.
Act II:
Told one to stay in the back during a fort assault to cast storm. Deployed arrow fend. A tower arrow flies across the battlefield and kills her anyway.
Act III:
Had one with 1W, so got her a water bracelet and told to summon yetis in a province with a dozen other commanders. The next turn she gets killed by an arrow from the sky. The only casualty from this spell so far.

Game, why you hate women so much?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 09, 2016, 05:41:43 am
Could I get an extension until Tuesday?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 09, 2016, 10:56:10 am
Nvr mind, managed to get it in today. However, I definitely won't be able to do another one until Tuesday.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Mini on September 09, 2016, 12:00:07 pm
RIP me.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on September 09, 2016, 01:45:09 pm
Since you attacked me this turn, Il Palazzo, I'm going to assume that was also your arrow from the sky, and your spies inciting unrest.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 09, 2016, 01:52:35 pm
Hey, your huge army with the god, suddenly appearing on my border looked like it was going to attack. What can I say. But since my dying mage for some reason did not cast Earthquake, no big deal, eh?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on September 09, 2016, 02:11:10 pm
Ah, well that's understandable. My pretender is just claiming thrones which have gone unclaimed due to my nation's unfortunate lack of h3 priests, and the force with her is just a protection force.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2016, 10:25:37 am
Sorry, I still can't get around to doing the turn. In fact, I may have to drop out. Sorry.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Shadowlord on September 12, 2016, 01:21:45 pm
I, for one, don't mind the break.

And by "don't mind" I mean "appreciate and enjoy because I was feeling a bit overwhelmed myself."
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 12, 2016, 03:47:42 pm
No, I mean a really long term unavailability. I'll have to quit playing everything for like, two months at least.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NationGen): under way
Post by: Anvilfolk on September 12, 2016, 04:49:53 pm
Doesn't sound like a ton'o'fun! I hope things are OK in life Il Palazzo!

Also, maybe we could destroy the Rehost game since it's still listed there!
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: E. Albright on September 12, 2016, 05:06:14 pm
All right then. So. It... sounds like we need a sub, as RL appears to be rearing its head for IP in a very ugly manner. So, um, I'll set the game on hold until we get someone.

Sub needed, experienced player preferred. Must like micromanaging. Currently winning by a modest margin, but probably hasn't hit critical mass quite yet...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: Il Palazzo on September 14, 2016, 09:54:58 am
I'll be happy to provide some general tips on the strategy used so far, should the prospective player need it. Just PM me.

And thanks for your concerns, guys, but the circumstances involved might actually, potentially, turn out to be happy ones :)
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: ThtblovesDF on September 15, 2016, 02:44:44 am
Could the AI even handle this mess in any capacity, if worst comes to worst?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: E. Albright on September 15, 2016, 09:14:05 am
It would do pretty bad with it. It has a big enough base territory it could do reasonable brute force tactics, but we're late enough in the game that everyone else has access to the tricks that are needed to make simple brute force suicide. It would almost immediate go to war with everyone on the map, too, and start being picked to pieces just as quickly.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: E. Albright on September 16, 2016, 02:18:27 pm
'Kay, so, we still have no sub. I see two ways out of the situation.

One, admit that Ag-M is in a strong enough position that continuing to play with them as AI would no longer be the same game, so we should just call the match.

Two, admit that Ag-M is in a strong enough position that continuing to play with them as AI would no longer be the same game, but who cares, it's not like this is for a league or something where the outcome counts outside itself, so we should embrace chaos and drive on.

I suppose I could try to recruit an outside sub, but that seems just wrong...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: Shadowlord on September 16, 2016, 08:06:05 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if the natgen nations were the reason nobody has volunteered.

Personally, I would be fine with calling it.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: E. Albright on September 16, 2016, 08:43:48 pm
Glorious poll is up! Or our five players can voice their opinions in a more straightforward manner.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: ThtblovesDF on September 17, 2016, 03:42:47 am
After EA mavernis madness, i stay away from clusterfuck nations, moving 1417 Boars around the map, 80 a piece max was hell.

Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: E. Albright on September 17, 2016, 08:53:35 am
...that was your own doing, turning a normal nation into a freespawn nation.  :P

B12R22, OTOH, is a micromanagement PITA to optimize, not to simply play.
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things (Hashed FS NG): sub needed
Post by: Shadowlord on September 17, 2016, 04:31:55 pm
I've dealt with it by not training foulspawn, or when I did, not separating them out because they're just manning walls anyways. It's probably not the optimal strategy, but it reduces the amount of micromanagement needed.

Of course I have blood hunters to manage too, so...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things: called due to Foul weather
Post by: E. Albright on September 18, 2016, 09:23:45 am
Well, the players and/or peanut gallery has spoken, so this tragicomic farce shall be brought to an end.

I will again underscore my frustration with the map choice; be assured I've strong words with the idiot who proposed it. Extremely high interconnectivity maps seem good in principle because they reduce chokepoints and maximize viable start positions in terms of neighbors... but they tend to behave badly in terms of nation clustering. Lower connectivity plus dedicated start provinces has grown on me a lot over the past few games we've done here...
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things: called due to Foul weather
Post by: E. Albright on September 19, 2016, 08:32:52 am
...any comments on Foulspawn? Any feedback? Are the Foulspawn recruitment outcomes too diverse? Not diverse enough? An embarrassment because they don't include hoburgspawn?
Title: Re: Dominions 4 Round 22: Even Worstester Things: called due to Foul weather
Post by: Margrave on September 19, 2016, 09:12:36 am
There were no Hoburgspawn!?

I liked it just fine, my only two complaints would be commanders that start out with battle fright afflictions and the hassle of trying to group mindless/barbarian/normal formations units all together.
I routinely had to overbuy just to make sure I both got something useful, and could gingerly select which troops I wanted.

I loved the variety, was thrilled to see bear cavalry and then dismayed when I saw their price.
Would play again someday, just with a way to see what I was buying unit wise