Alright, signed you up. Now, I'm familiar with everyone else's skill level, but how well would you describe how you play?Did (I think) reasonably in the first one, completely shit in the second (until I lost internet for the better part of a month, and then better than I expected in drawing out a lost cause for longer), good start in the third but went to shit immediately upon going to war. Overall, bad to mediocre.
It might help to know folks' level of familiarity with LA, since the eras are wildly different, with different nations.Well, everyone should have someone along who is at least somewhat familiar with late age I think. That being said, for players here, do let me know if you are unfamiliar with late age and I can see about revising teams if it makes you nervous, and I can revise the list once over.
Alright, I have gotten the teams finalized at least. The day where hatman routes us all with only his with and dominions might is sadly not gonna be this game.If this isn't a joke I'm flattered? I've won exactly one game so far, with teammates. But i'm fine with the teams.
Marignon.<Insert suitably altered navy seal meme>
Why is Agartha bad on Valanis? I mean, bad for everyone else?
edit: oh, is it all the caves? Heh, yeah, that might be... troublesome. But at least there's some definite chokepoints to hold them off at, and there isn't a lot of supplies down there.
edit: oh, is it all the caves? Heh, yeah, that might be... troublesome. But at least there's some definite chokepoints to hold them off at, and there isn't a lot of supplies down there.
LA Agartha doesn't have non-undead Pale Ones, stuck with humans.
Can I request a small extension for my partner? I know it's pretty close to a last second thing but I'm fairly sure this is just a case of internet eating his 2h-file containing email or something like that...Man, I forgot to reply to this, then replied to the thread, so didn't wanna double post, and then realized I prolly should just so that people notice this. Welp
(EDIT: As we can all see below, ignore this request)
Marignon has seen its first 'real' player v player battle, which ended with a victory. How are things going over in the distant, unknowable south?This minor tactical defeat is only temporary.
Bogarus looks like it's getting hit by agartha and Xibalba at once.I'm pretty sure Cheetar knows that, he is allied to Bogarus after all!
Marignon has seen its first 'real' player v player battle, which ended with a victory. How are things going over in the distant, unknowable south?This minor tactical defeat is only temporary.
Unless that fort's getting done this turn, then it's a pretty clear victory to you.
(P.S. Cag, you forgot to capitalize Agartha! What the heck is wrong with you?!)Well, you capitalized the c in cag, so fair play there :P
Well, you capitalized the c in cag, so fair play there :P
Though yeah, interesting times these.
...maybe I should play Agartha one day, except call in Cagartha in that case.
What fort? I don't know what you're talking about...Well, it looked like a great place for a fort, so I just assumed.
What fort? I don't know what you're talking about...Well, it looked like a great place for a fort, so I just assumed.
Edit: There are bats in the river. Why are there bats in the river? There should not be bats in the river.
Edit: There are bats in the river. Why are there bats in the river? There should not be bats in the river.
Edit: There are bats in the river. Why are there bats in the river? There should not be bats in the river.
P.S. Xibalba: All of Ragha's troops are on the front line fighting me.
As it happens you're right across the sea from my territory. Pardon if I'm a little paranoid over a potential invasion.
As it happens you're right across the sea from my territory. Pardon if I'm a little paranoid over a potential invasion.To be fair, given that you are at war with bogarus, you're also technically at war with marignon. In that case I'm not sure it's an invasion, strictly speaking. I'm sure Mari would like nothing more than to have the two of you in a war with 3 able bodied nations push comes to shove.
In other news, Epiphany, the god of Ragha/Ulm, was diseased down to 2 HP last turn. She been cured, and survived the stupid assassin-throne with its ninja plague site.The cure was something of an... epiphany.
Yeah, my goal was to get a 3 person per team deal going, but we were a person short of that, and it would have lead to few teams. If I can nab 12 that's just a perfect disciples number.It's not so much where "we" went wrong. I mean, it could have helped if you actually helped us against the terrors from the underground (instead of, y'know, suddenly and inevitably attacking us instead), but for the most part it was that the starts placement screwed up. If either Ulm was swapped with Marignon, or Bogarus with Ragha, it would have made a much more balanced start for us. As it was, we were stretched into a thin strip that was undefendable and surrounded on all sides, and we couldn't help each other.In other news, Epiphany, the god of Ragha/Ulm, was diseased down to 2 HP last turn. She been cured, and survived the stupid assassin-throne with its ninja plague site.The cure was something of an... epiphany.
Other than that, I'm also worried about Cheeetar and Sean here. I mean, we're at war and all but I also wanna be a gracious host here. Knowing what went wrong this game should help get more satisfying games next time.
I'd be interested in trying a disciples game again with more players, though.
Anybody know if there's a button for "torch fortress"?
I've never played a disciple game with two-person teams. It sounds weird and awful. Three-person is nice. Four would probably be decent as well.Well, it being the first time I was organizing a disciples game, this made more sense to me. The last game I was in was 4 or 5 teams of 3 each... and the main problem there was I was the only person doing any sorta legwork in the team so it was really really awful to play as. I was aiming for 3 person teams this time around, since the community here seems more tight knit and all, but balance of players and all that. 4 player teams would have just been two sides locked in constant war I feel, and there was no way to divide 8 players into teams of 3 each, so yeah.
And Jilladilla knows a ton about Dominions.
Jilladilla to do the same - as long as it is useful for him
Now, accepting deals... Yeah what Thtbloves said is pretty much true there, but what person takes a deal that isn't useful to them whatsoever?I do, at times. Mostly if it feels like the sort of thing the nation I'm playing would do.
I do, at times. Mostly if it feels like the sort of thing the nation I'm playing would do.
Have I mentioned I'm not very good at this game? :P
Welp, my capital's done. Should have kept my forces in it instead of doing the last stand before the siege, I now realize, but then Ulm would just have taken the side province and locked my Sirins in without a means for them to work. You and your bloody high morale commanders. :PWell, hey, you managed to cut my army in half by taking a commander that mattered at least. So what was the thought process behind the bless anyway? Seems a little odd putting a nature blood bless on 0 protection sacreds. I get the feeling they'd still die in one hit on average. Not sure i justified taking below average scales.
I'll still be taking a final stab at you though. I pulled everyone I had harassing Ragha back just this turn. :D
We were choosing between nature-and-something and death-and-something, and then figured that the blood bless would work a little bit better if these guys didn't die to the first arrow that hit them. Chose more on the fun factor than strategic value, really. Marignon has recruit-anywhere sacreds, Bogarus has recruit-in-any-fort sacreds, blood bless is fun, and Marignon has the Blood Mother pretender that allows making a nature/blood bless with 10 dominion (for maximum holy points) without tanking scales. That was basically it. ^_^Welp, my capital's done. Should have kept my forces in it instead of doing the last stand before the siege, I now realize, but then Ulm would just have taken the side province and locked my Sirins in without a means for them to work. You and your bloody high morale commanders. :PWell, hey, you managed to cut my army in half by taking a commander that mattered at least. So what was the thought process behind the bless anyway? Seems a little odd putting a nature blood bless on 0 protection sacreds. I get the feeling they'd still die in one hit on average. Not sure i justified taking below average scales.
I'll still be taking a final stab at you though. I pulled everyone I had harassing Ragha back just this turn. :D
Hate it when the battle replay is different from what actually happened..... Yes even when what happened is technically better than how the replay said it went (I like seeing where a strategy went wrong/how to optimize it further)Er, what? Never a saw a battle replay being different before. The replay is literally a recreation of how the game resolves the battle.
Hate it when the battle replay is different from what actually happened..... Yes even when what happened is technically better than how the replay said it went (I like seeing where a strategy went wrong/how to optimize it further)Er, what? Never a saw a battle replay being different before. The replay is literally a recreation of how the game resolves the battle.
Huh. Could it be mod/version divergence? It's never happened to me in my limited multiplayer experience, and never happened in singleplayer before. Battles are played out server-side and only the starting conditions are supplied to the client with the implication that the client follows the same procedure as the server. If there's a discontinuity anywhere, the seeded random number generator will produce different numbers.
Neither of you was the server, though. If you're playing through the llamaserver, the discrepancy would have to be between their settings and yours. Though it being limited to just one battle does suggest that if the discrepancy was in mods, it would have had to be very small and very specific, making some other error more likely.Huh. Could it be mod/version divergence? It's never happened to me in my limited multiplayer experience, and never happened in singleplayer before. Battles are played out server-side and only the starting conditions are supplied to the client with the implication that the client follows the same procedure as the server. If there's a discontinuity anywhere, the seeded random number generator will produce different numbers.
That is one possibility, except that in my example mentioned, both me and Thtbloves saw the same replay. We were both confused as to why I maintained control of the province, all our other battles didn't have such shenanigans involved.
'DAMN THOSE SNEAKY SCOUTS AND THEIR DASTARDLY WAYS!'
Well please stop patrolling when you have nothing better to do, perhaps try blood hunting?I do that if I have ready access to a lab (and then the mages would be better spent researching/ritualling), and besides, bloodhunting with blood 0 commanders is like expecting a Pale One mage to score a precision hit from halfway across the battlefield, only if RNGesus looks upon you favorably will that work!
In other news, a random Shambler I sent to the arena is now not only the champion, but the highest-ranked hero in the Hall of Fame. I hope his fame doesn't go to his head... :-\
Mini, you sure are loving that Siren hero of yours aren't you? I'm very much not. Oh so very very much not. Don't get cocky though, as the moment you lose her you're back to being at the mercy of my crossbowmen. And I can so very easily rebuild lost troops...*wail*
Arco surprised me with that Siren hero for sure, before then (And I apologize for this Mini, it's not you, it's the nation, Arco really doesn't have anything to deal with crossbow spam...) I didn't really consider you the big threat. It came at a good time too.Yeah, I was avoiding as much as possible your army until Hatman reminded me about all the air spells that stop ranged stuff, and then I also remembered that I had a hero with high air paths I could use for it (and nothing else, other than maybe figuring out a way to get to N5 and conj 8, which probably would have required an empowerment, probably blood onto a priestess), so that happened and it was quite effective. Good thing we went luck, and good thing that particular hero showed up.
Also, Mini, like Gigalith said, if you put that fort at Polgrave at Troban instead, this game would've gone VERY differently.Yeah, I forgot about Xibalba's insane raiding potential when I built it, even though at that point you were already raiding a long way in.
Arco threw a tricked-out sleeper at me (he had the trample-flying armor.) I think said sleeper just got unlucky, since a random wound diseased it.I guess I've have to go back and watch that battle again. The idea was to exploit my hordes of scouts (I had one in basically all of Xibalba/Agartha's territory, as well as all bar 3 or so of the provinces on the northern side of the river) by being able to jump around wherever the PD was the weakest... And then it died in the first battle.
And finally, to Gigalith, I think krakens are kinda bad? They didn't seem to really accomplish much...)They scared me away. My water forces were just playing containment until the last few turns.
Also yeah, ulm on scales is silly. My expansion actually suffered early on in the game, so I never really had enough gold to back it up, but by the last turn I am pretty sure I was fielding the largest army. And 800 research. Ah well, I turtled too hard this game.
Yeah, I was avoiding as much as possible your army until Hatman reminded me about all the air spells that stop ranged stuff, and then I also remembered that I had a hero with high air paths I could use for it (and nothing else, other than maybe figuring out a way to get to N5 and conj 8, which probably would have required an empowerment, probably blood onto a priestess), so that happened and it was quite effective. Good thing we went luck, and good thing that particular hero showed up.
I want to thank you all for the game. As far as post mortems go, my big mistake was trying to push against Agartha underground, rather than hole up and wait for them to open the second front. I had a lich. Defensive deadlock is good when you have a lich. I got impatient and second-guessed myself into losing a fortress far too early in the war!Your Magisters (Just gonna shorten Magister Arcanes as they're the ones that are actually viable) are actually pretty darn strong for a non-cap restricted mage, cost efficient too, also your script for Flaming Arrows was something like PotS->Pheonix Power->Flaming Arrows yeah? Noticed with my F2 Alchemists that the scripting thingie yells at me unless I give them an extra gem, why? I don't know. Also how do you think I felt with my Alchemists who rolled D1 (and to a lesser extent W2, seriously, how many of those did you see me field? Very very few, if any.), sure they can summon iron corpses for me but if I wanted that I would've bought Reanimators!
On analysis of man as a nation, they are very good and deeply frustrating at the same time. I only recruited about 5 units out of my lineup, and 2 of those were purely to support a stealthy raiding hero and otherwise would not have been used. Your highest random is 50% on magisters and magisters arcane, and the random on arcanes has a high chance to be basically wasted on fire. On the other hand, between power of the spheres, summon X power and their basic paths, magisters arcane are capable of terrifying shenanigans in the field. On the copper arm, relying so heavily on a very old, very fragile mage can and repetedly did bite me. As did the fact not a single flaming arrows cast I scripted all game went off, which I will confess was slightly dissapointing. I will likely play this nation again some time, though there are many others I'd like to try.
Good game to all. Grateful I was able to play.
Your Magisters (Just gonna shorten Magister Arcanes as they're the ones that are actually viable) are actually pretty darn strong for a non-cap restricted mage, cost efficient too, also your script for Flaming Arrows was something like PotS->Pheonix Power->Flaming Arrows yeah? Noticed with my F2 Alchemists that the scripting thingie yells at me unless I give them an extra gem, why? I don't know. Also how do you think I felt with my Alchemists who rolled D1 (and to a lesser extent W2, seriously, how many of those did you see me field? Very very few, if any.), sure they can summon iron corpses for me but if I wanted that I would've bought Reanimators!
But yeah your combination of Arrow Fend, Lightning magic and x-bows (although that's only because they sit back and shoot, Agarthan Infantry are practically arrow proof, even against bolts (I have no issue with my x-bows firing into a melee after all, in all their +2 damage -2 precision (compared to normal x-bowmen) glory)) gave me a headache, E2 mages don't grow on trees for LA Agartha after all.
Also yeah I perfectly agree with your derp of fighting against Agartha in the caves without overwhelming odds... Also I think I almost got your Lich outside your dominion there early on.... Think I messed up a bit on execution though or was a little to slow?.. Can't remember, to lazy to check.
That said, I want your opinion on Man vs Agartha, Archer Edition (which, if I remember right, was what our early fights basically were).
(EDIT: All said, I would be up for another game, I won't even pick Agartha this time! Probably.)
The flaming arrows script was 1 pearl, 5 rubies by the time I gave up on it, PotS, pheonix power, flaming arrows, yeah. The AI maybe doesn't think defenders are archers or something? But still casts wind guide on 'em?Err HP? Agarthan humans are pretty standard, just -2 precision and 50% darkvision, everything else is human average. (Blindfighters and Entrance Guards excluded of course, but those guys are elites using Full Plate, even crossbows have issues with that.)
As for the archery duels, you were winning early, because your archers were cheaper, routed sooner and thus avoided more casualties, and you had higher resource provinces to draw from. Setting defenders to hold and attack rear, which actually made them target your back ranks where your lighter armoured crossbows, magicians and sappers were, helped a fair bit, as did moving out of the caves, which took us from matching prec to me leading by 3 points, at which point I was winning the shooting matches, but only if I actually stopped shooting your frontline, which wasn't a great deal, just a better deal than losing - agarthan infantry being crossbow proof is a matter of their hitpoints as much as their protection, so not shooting them is worse than shooting them.
Arrow Fend and storm helped more, as you mentioned, but i'll note that it was primarily by letting me ignore all your Xbows and shoot your frontline, with storm in particular doing a certain amount to punish you for evoking with your low prec mages into melee lines when I'd softened up your side. If you'd used more skelespam and less evo, storm would have been far less useful.
Lastly regarding the cold war undead Gigalith mentioned - all from an interactable event. Couldn't have built them in any other province.
As for me, I was sort of screwed from the outset by positioning, but some messed-up move orders caused me to agrro Agartha early, and, well... :P
The Sirins came out late, I only managed to mass-produce them thanks to a generous donation from Marignon, and ultimately they didn't help a whole lot. Dream seduction just doesn't work that well. :\
All in all, it was fun while it lasted. Hopefully if I'm in the next game I'll actually be able to not be the first one out. Again. :P
Yep. I don't know why, must've (once again) left-clicked to drag the map with the army selected and didn't notice the move order before hitting "end turn". Or just plain failed a spot check when looking the map over.As for me, I was sort of screwed from the outset by positioning, but some messed-up move orders caused me to agrro Agartha early, and, well... :P
The Sirins came out late, I only managed to mass-produce them thanks to a generous donation from Marignon, and ultimately they didn't help a whole lot. Dream seduction just doesn't work that well. :\
All in all, it was fun while it lasted. Hopefully if I'm in the next game I'll actually be able to not be the first one out. Again. :P
.....I wasn't angry at the expansion parties meeting up, it was when you continued into my territory that caused you to gain my aggro... That was seriously due to you derping on move orders?... Damn, that REALLY could've changed the course of the game, as according to Hatman, the Arco/Man v Agartha/Xibalba War was caused because we were fighting you instead of Ulm... (Yes, I was gearing up to fight you then cag.)
It turns out that even if there are no patrollers, sufficiently poorly stealthed armies can be discovered anyway. It must roll those open-ended dice regardless. Anyway, they had poor stealth in the first place, minus 1 for every unit... Both of them were discovered on the same turn.
Lastly regarding the cold war undead Gigalith mentioned - all from an interactable event. Couldn't have built them in any other province.
as according to Hatman, the Arco/Man v Agartha/Xibalba War was caused because we were fighting you instead of Ulm... (Yes, I was gearing up to fight you then cag.)That was part of it, but things were already kinda tense due to us being in the caves (which you appeared to not like, and were slightly aggressive about), and us (or maybe just me) not realising just how bad Ragha/Marignon had it. If I'd noticed the latter earlier, and you hadn't said what you did about the former, then we probably would have been allies.
I suspect the reason 1 PD provinces don't randomly discover and eat scouts is that beating 50 + 2d25 (open-ended) with just 2d25 (open ended) is just so unlikely it almost never happens.0.08% chance. So scouts in <15PD (assuming the passive patrolling can't go below 0, can't be bothered to look it up) provinces have a half-life of 866 turns.
Suggestions for Theme, Map, Mods, Age & Rules for the next host?Better to decide that either in a new thread or in the OG Dom4 thread, I think. Make it obvious it's a new game, for people who might play but aren't paying attention to an already running game.
Suggestions for Theme, Map, Mods, Age & Rules for the next host?I'm going to repeat my vote for Dawn of Bridges v3 as the next map. And also agree that it should be taken to a new thread or the main Dom4 thread.
Optimally we'd have a backup hoster that I share the password with (chaoticag?).
Since this was a team game, the next one could be a regular game. Hybrid could be a thing, too - with 2x2 teams and a bunch of independents ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I suspect the reason 1 PD provinces don't randomly discover and eat scouts is that beating 50 + 2d25 (open-ended) with just 2d25 (open ended) is just so unlikely it almost never happens.0.08% chance. So scouts in <15PD (assuming the passive patrolling can't go below 0, can't be bothered to look it up) provinces have a half-life of 866 turns.
"quite well organized" is actually 6-18PD, so it probably was 15+...Ah, that explains it. PD guesstimate messages are not something I have memorized, it doesn't really come up all that often. (Sorry Gigalith, but I knew 6 was were it changed and though it was 6-14. Seemed like a reasonable leap of logic.)
That was part of it, but things were already kinda tense due to us being in the caves (which you appeared to not like, and were slightly aggressive about), and us (or maybe just me) not realising just how bad Ragha/Marignon had it. If I'd noticed the latter earlier, and you hadn't said what you did about the former, then we probably would have been allies.And there goes me failing diplomacy again, I just more or less just gave up those two provinces once we got a tentative peace treaty.
Err HP? Agarthan humans are pretty standard, just -2 precision and 50% darkvision, everything else is human average. (Blindfighters and Entrance Guards excluded of course, but those guys are elites using Full Plate, even crossbows have issues with that.)
Their crossbow-resistance has EVERYTHING to do with their armor + kite shield combo. (I will admit that claiming crossbow-proof was a bit much. But still very resistant.)
And yeah, you're very much right, I went too crazy with Alchemists, would've been better served with shunting my Enchantment research elsewhere this match. (Or actually using skelespam. Or more exploding skeleton horses... Didn't really try hard enough on those to get an opinion...) And trust me, I didn't really think on the horrific precision, as an Agartha player, friendly fire happens often anyway, but your troops tend to be able to take it better than theirs... (No seriously, I didn't think anything of it. There's a good chance that you tilted the balance from 'Well it's hurting you more than me...' to being actively harmful to my odds of victory... And then there was Mini who did Storm + Mist, now if only I got Darkness off in those fights, 1 precision for EVERYONE!)
All in all, made too much of a departure from tried and true army support and far too much into blasting. Thank you for your analysis. (Again, seriously, thank you, LA Agartha was the Agartha where my strategies were still mostly theoretical, had very little practice against actual players with it.)
(Also Archers CAN'T be given Fire Rear orders, if you gave them Attack Rear they would forget their bows and charge... But irregardless, you actually came to a different conclusion than me, I took less casualties once I switched to heavier x-bows due to them actually being able to take hits (and gold issues)... The light x-bows are really only for use against those you don't expect to perform counter-battery and expansion... They die so quickly if they get attacked or shot at...)