Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: ChristianWeiseth on August 20, 2017, 06:01:58 pm
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So I made a Archer Tower, basically just a rectangle with Fortification all around, when I got sieged it worked quite well for about 5sec, the dwarves were firing their crossbows through the fortification and most goblin arrows hit the wall, but then suddenly the entire 9man squad decided to a diving charge with the goblins on the bridge you can see there down to the ground killing everyone of my dwarves and one til of the fortification was gone.
To add injury to the catastrophe the goblins now were able to climb the 4z levels up into the tower. I had to wall off the entrence the to tower to stop them from overrunning my fort.
There were no ramps at the bottom of the tower.
How come the dwarves jumped through the fortification?
Why did one tile of Fortification disappear? Do they have health, like the take damage?
How were the goblins able to climb up into the tower?
:'(
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/300999442536988673/348959979610570752/DF_archer_tower.jpg?width=987&height=556)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/300999442536988673/348964757753298946/archer_tower_fail.jpg)
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Your dwarves likely got spooked from goblins being too close and decided to charge.
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Your dwarves likely got spooked from goblins being too close and decided to charge.
I see, but how did they get through the Fortification?
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I've had goblins climb up 2 z-levels of block walls and get through fortifications on the 3rd level. It was rare, but it did happen.
I have no idea what might cause a tile of fortifications to disappear. Is it actually gone, or is there something stuck in it that only makes it look like it's gone?
If you want to stop invaders from climbing in, you need to build overhanging floors or something like that. The wiki's got a page on climbers with some safe designs: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Climber (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Climber).
Edit to add: Did you put a roof on the archer tower? Is there a chance they climbed over?
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Fortifications are completely indestructible, although invaders and dwarves can climb over them or jump through them. Crossbow dwarves will charge at goblins instead of shoot at them if possible, which is why you should build a roof over the top of the archer tower and have the marksdwarves fire from one level above the ground.
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Yeah, that looks like you have a bolt dropped in the same tile as fortification is (judging by the blood, dropped there due being shot), instead of it being gone. Deconstruct the fortification to get the bolt back.
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Ah I see, thanks for all replies! :D
Yeah there were no complete roof of the tower yet and the Fortification was on the same level as the bridge, which explains the charges as you noted. I find it funny that you have to build a floor line around your tower to prevent climbing just like in the fps survival game Rust :P Didn't even know climbing was a thing, that is pretty cool.
Hmm you are right the tile is just showing as a bolt while the fortification is most likely there since it is indestructible as you guys said, have to load up the game again. I guess surprises this like is what makes DF fun, feel sorry for the two dozen dwarves that got stuck outside but at least they will die glorious deaths being hunted down and butchered because the architect (me) didn't know what he was doing lol.
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b-C-F will construct a fortification without a floor on its z+1.
Instead, b-C-w construct a wall which will have a floor on its z+1 (act as a ceiling), then d-A to designate and carve a fortification on the constructed wall.
For easier access to make a ceiling, deconstruct one of the fortification, construct an Up Ramp so you have access to the roof, then build floors up there.
After the ceiling is completed, deconstruct the up ramp and replace with wall then carve fortification.
Now you have a sealed bunker.
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Didn't even know climbing was a thing, that is pretty cool.
Yeah, it is a skill that creatures can develop (and some creature's have innately high skill, like a Giant Cave Spider) that allows them to scale vertical surfaces. But not all surfaces are created equal: rough stone walls are the easiest to climb, stone block walls are harder, and smoothed natural stone is impossible to climb. It is impossible to grip floor tiles from below, but it is possible to grip and climb tree branches from below. Further, creatures can now leap over small gaps or one or maybe two tiles (though unlike climbing this is not a skill and does not get easier with practice.)
Keep all this in mind when designing defense.
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b-C-F will construct a fortification without a floor on its z+1.
Instead, b-C-w construct a wall which will have a floor on its z+1 (act as a ceiling), then d-A to designate and carve a fortification on the constructed wall.
For easier access to make a ceiling, deconstruct one of the fortification, construct an Up Ramp so you have access to the roof, then build floors up there.
After the ceiling is completed, deconstruct the up ramp and replace with wall then carve fortification.
Now you have a sealed bunker.
You can.. carve out fortifications in constructed walls..?
I... I feel so empty. I just went through a lot of trouble roofing fortifications...
I'm going to go lie in bed for a few hours and cry.
But now I know! Thanks.
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@Fearless Son: Worth mentioning that not only are smoothed walls unclimbable, so are buildings and jutting floors (though creatures seem to have at least some ability to jump upwards where climbing is impossible for an adventurers).
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Enemies also will never climb or jump into your fortress unless they see some of your units, because this takes them off the "labor" pathfinding and puts them on combat AI, which is more than happy to sprint and jump and grab ledges in midair and climb the rest of the way.
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Enemies also will never climb or jump into your fortress unless they see some of your units, because this takes them off the "labor" pathfinding and puts them on combat AI, which is more than happy to sprint and jump and grab ledges in midair and climb the rest of the way.
Yeah I noticed that, 3 goblins were actually able to sprint and jump from the end point of the bridge, over the raised gate/wall and into the fortress which caused utter chaos, lost at least 5 more dwarves to their ninja assault and all my livestock of cow and chicken. 1 Goblin was also able to sprint and jump accross the moat onto the roof of my main building killing a lot of children who were playing in a dormitory there, it was at least 6 tiles or something.
I lost a copper sword artifact which was sad , but my fort finally succumbed to a werepanther infestation that I wasn't able to control. All my military dwarves were dead after the siege and I had the drawbridge down to let the dwarves bury their fallen comrades that lied in the moat and while the gate was open a werepanther got in and infected over half a dozen dwarves and killed even more :'(
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That is so sad. :(
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I didn't know they could run and jump/ninja assault, I was wondering if it was good old fashion dodging. I recently had two miners who were digging out ramps underneath each other. The lower level was an aquafir (I was breaching it with cave in), and as soon as they hit the water, they would dodge up 2 levels, and out 4 tiles to safety - on top of the plug (it was a 7/7 plug held up by a floor 1 level up, which I was going to drop; the dwarfs could dodge from the middle to the outside) - all of which was a surprise. I would watch as they just disappeared and then suddenly cancelled the ramp job they were working on because they couldn't access it.
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I thought it would be funny to try to find an image from the cartoon "Cow and Chicken" where they are dead, so I googled it. I'm *never* doing that again. Where do I donate to PETA again?
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I thought it would be funny to try to find an image from the cartoon "Cow and Chicken" where they are dead, so I googled it. I'm *never* doing that again. Where do I donate to PETA again?
I loved that show :D
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I thought it would be funny to try to find an image from the cartoon "Cow and Chicken" where they are dead, so I googled it. I'm *never* doing that again. Where do I donate to PETA again?
Better to deal with the ASPCA and Humane Society for that. Never go through PETA. They're the Scientology of the ecology movement, right down to getting idiot celebrities to drink their Kool-Aid.
https://speakingofresearch.com/2011/01/18/where-do-petas-donation-dollars-go/
On-Topic: I have nothing new to add to the architecture discussion. I put roofs over every fortification area and make sure my floors overhang. Well, okay, I do go a bit higher. You can go three stories high without losing forward range, so that's how high my walls generally are. Three levels high. If you have the time and spare hands, you could also dig a serious five or ten level moat around the tower, about five tiles wide. This'll keep the enemies out of climbing, jumping, and hiding range of your tower.