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Other Projects => Other Games => Topic started by: MagmaMcFry on October 16, 2017, 04:03:09 pm

Title: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 16, 2017, 04:03:09 pm
They announced a new game! (http://www.zachtronics.com/opus-magnum/) It's available in three days (http://store.steampowered.com/app/558990/Opus_Magnum/), as Early Access probably, but Zachtronics always delivers.

It's a snazzy successor to the Codex of Alchemical Engineering (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-codex-of-alchemical-engineering/), way more closely related than the previous spiritual successor SpaceChem, and I guess here (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-magnum-opus-challenge/)'s where the name comes from.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: AlStar on October 17, 2017, 08:53:37 am
On my wishlist - certainly looks pretty.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: askovdk on October 17, 2017, 09:08:09 am
 :)  Thank you for sharing, - will be on my 'must have' list.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Gatleos on October 17, 2017, 10:34:43 am
Oh man. I put so many hours into Codex and Spacechem combined, I had no idea they were working on a direct sequel to Codex. I need this.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Levi on October 17, 2017, 11:36:00 am
Yesssss.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: ventuswings on October 17, 2017, 06:14:21 pm
This looks good! SpaceChem was only one of theirs that I was really able to "get", so it's exciting to see their new work is similar.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 17, 2017, 07:14:12 pm
Must buy.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 18, 2017, 01:13:37 am
I am terrible at these games, but the trailer looks super fun...
Ah, it's always fun to try to build things. And probably fail.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: a1s on October 18, 2017, 02:00:37 am
I guess here (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-magnum-opus-challenge/)'s where the name comes from.
You know Magnum Opus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_opus_(alchemy)) is a legitimate alchemical term, right? (Also, non-alchemical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_opus_(disambiguation)), which you are more likely to know :P)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 18, 2017, 12:54:28 pm
I guess here (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-magnum-opus-challenge/)'s where the name comes from.
You know Magnum Opus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_opus_(alchemy)) is a legitimate alchemical term, right?
Well now I know where the name the name comes from comes from. Thanks!
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 19, 2017, 03:17:54 pm
My best prologue solution: 40g, 83 cycles, 7 area.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 19, 2017, 05:09:57 pm
Same puzzle, 15 cycles:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 19, 2017, 09:19:31 pm
My best Precision Machine Oil (90/73/14)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 20, 2017, 01:04:13 am
I've been attempting to get the lowest sum of cost+cycles+area.

Stamina Potion:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 20, 2017, 02:08:55 pm
Mist of Incapacitation!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd love to see some other solutions on this one.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: qwertyuiopas on October 20, 2017, 07:15:11 pm
I also have a one-armed Very Dark Thread:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: ChairmanPoo on October 21, 2017, 05:47:22 am
I'm really interested in this game, but would rather buy through humble or GOG. Is there any mention of that anywhere?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MCreeper on October 21, 2017, 08:07:40 am
I also have a one-armed Very Dark Thread:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damn, your thread is so dark, that when i open a spoiler, it makes almost all firefox windows black. Even if i close the tab, it's still black!

Edit: And now it isn't. Wonky bugs.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: qwertyuiopas on October 21, 2017, 01:03:53 pm
Perhaps because of the unlimited space and time, plus the greater range of movement options. If you build yourself into an inefficient layout halfway through the solution you can just keep expanding.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: qwertyuiopas on October 21, 2017, 04:14:37 pm
It can lead to some silly first solutions, such as this Universal Solvent (spoiler note: last puzzle of the campaign)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I probably made multiple poor choices in when and where to assemble subcomponents, but I could always find some combinations of movements that brought the awkwardly-placed molecules out into an open space again without compromising on input rate. It was actually a bit fun at times, routing molecules without having to massively backtrack on existing parts of the design, though I expect there's room to save tens of cycles with a more efficient form-scratch design.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: qwertyuiopas on October 21, 2017, 07:08:34 pm
Assembling the 4-salt molecules and converting the atoms afterwards caused excess complexity and startup delay, then splitting the two types afterwards was inefficient and caused awkward routing later, and finally, I did not know you could rotate groups of selected components with A/D, so was hesitant to re-orient the Life/Death producer even though it might have helped routing a bit.

Also, I focused on minimum loop duration, starting from the two inputs, and just tried to fit everything else in the 8-cycle loop that implied. Coming back a day later, having seen problems with my earlier solution and slept on it, I was able to make a better variant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A further cycle might be saved by grabbing the final molecule from the top.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: bloop_bleep on October 22, 2017, 02:43:37 am
I am very intrigued by this, and am feeling a sudden urge to develop an AI to solve this in the general case.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Karlito on October 22, 2017, 03:57:12 pm
Yeah, compared to previous Zachtronics games, I've found it's easier to find some solution to puzzles, even if your solution isn't very good (like all of mine).
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: frostshotgg on October 22, 2017, 04:11:00 pm
What I've seen of it so far is that it restricts you far less than the previous games. It's easier just by virtue of there being way more ways to do any given task. Compare with Shenzen I/O where space is absolutely crippling, or TIS where you're severely limited in terms of what commands you can do.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: lordcooper on October 24, 2017, 09:50:55 am
Fast:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Faster, smaller, good rhythm.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 24, 2017, 04:39:17 pm
Fast:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Faster, smaller, good rhythm.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fastest.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Smallest/Cheapest.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 24, 2017, 04:50:46 pm
Spoiler: Life Sensing Potion (click to show/hide)

I wasted entirely too many hours optimizing this for cycles.
Anyone who can do it faster I shall decry as a witch!
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 24, 2017, 05:14:35 pm
Hmm, I see at least 2 easily saved cycles there, near the end of the line. Your products don't need to wait on the last four bonders if you don't let go of them. I think you can maybe even save one or two more ticks with a different approach, using only 2 ticks for bonding, either in three groups of two, or using the tribonders.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 24, 2017, 07:09:07 pm
Okay, good call on not letting go of the product at the end. Saved 1 cycle. Witch.
Your dream of a sustained 2-cycle bonding however is pure folly!
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 24, 2017, 08:46:28 pm
This sounds exactly like a conversation that alchemists would have.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MCreeper on October 25, 2017, 05:12:18 am
Gives an error that says something about directx 11 on launch. God, i LOATHE games that "need" directx 10, directx 11, directx 12, yes, i seen it, and other gibberish like that when they have absolutely NO reason to do this.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: cerapa on October 25, 2017, 05:29:07 am
Gives an error that says something about directx 11 on launch. God, i LOATHE games that "need" directx 10, directx 11, directx 12, yes, i seen it, and other gibberish like that when they have absolutely NO reason to do this.

To do what? Require directx?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MCreeper on October 25, 2017, 06:01:58 am
No, require directx 11 when there are absolutely no EVEN REMOTELY fancy graphics. Same with directx 10, come on, it's just simple goddamned puzzle, why the hell you might need it, or have any reason to put it in in the first place!?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: AlStar on October 25, 2017, 10:22:37 am
While I appreciate staying true to the classics, I don't think it's unreasonable for a modern day game to assume that you've got an OS that's able to run a version of DirectX that came out in 2009. (2006 - 11 years ago - for DirectX 10)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 25, 2017, 10:56:43 am
It's not reasonable imo for the game to assume you're using windows, however.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: milo christiansen on October 25, 2017, 11:08:32 am
Exactly. Any game using DirectX has something fundamentally wrong with it. Too bad many games suffer from this bug.

To be honest, games is the only thing that keeps me using Windows.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 25, 2017, 11:55:23 am
Games and lazyness, here.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: AlStar on October 25, 2017, 03:58:25 pm
It's not reasonable imo for the game to assume you're using windows, however.
Noting that I don't really want to turn this thread into a squabble about this...

Numbers from the September 2017 Steam Survey:
Windows 96.60% +0.30%
OSX 2.74% -0.29%
Linux 0.60% -0.03%

So, given that this game is on Steam, it seems like yes, actually, it is totally reasonable to assume you're using windows.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 25, 2017, 04:18:12 pm
Of course everyone's gonna use windows when all the games only work on windows, and it's the most popular OS anyway...
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Ozyton on October 25, 2017, 10:53:42 pm
So I've been watching someone on Youtube playing this game and I realize that I really want the soundtrack to these games, especially if I get this new job I'm after. Not just the soundtrack for this, but Shenzhen, Spacechem, etc. Is there somewhere you can get them?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Mini on October 26, 2017, 12:06:01 am
I've only checked Opus Magnum and Shenzen, but the music for both of those is loose in the <install location>\Content\music folder, so buying the games is a relatively easy way to get them. I quick look didn't reveal a place to buy the soundtrack individually, so it might also be the only way at the moment.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 26, 2017, 04:02:31 am

Okay Smarty McCycleWizard, how can I refine this one?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: cerapa on October 26, 2017, 06:30:31 am
No, require directx 11 when there are absolutely no EVEN REMOTELY fancy graphics. Same with directx 10, come on, it's just simple goddamned puzzle, why the hell you might need it, or have any reason to put it in in the first place!?

Put it in? Are you kidding me? I'm no expert on DirectX, but there are major differences between versions. It's not as simple as changing a variable from 11 to 9.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: MagmaMcFry on October 26, 2017, 12:52:14 pm

Okay Smarty McCycleWizard, how can I refine this one?
Mash the step button instead of pressing play to save one cycle. E: Wait no, that got fixed.

I haven't even reached that puzzle yet. I'll probably assemble the chain in groups of four, so it takes only 2 cycles to add a new piece to the chain and then move it to the exit position.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 26, 2017, 02:29:11 pm
Put it in? Are you kidding me? I'm no expert on DirectX, but there are major differences between versions. It's not as simple as changing a variable from 11 to 9.

It was not all that long ago that I was stubbornly sticking with Windows XP SP1, and I recall several games that required DX10 or 11 and I found workarounds that forced them to use DX9, after which I was able to run them without a hitch. I'm no graphics software expert either, but apparently yes, it is that simple in some cases.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on October 26, 2017, 02:37:14 pm
DX version numbers are basically just disguised DRM to try to get people to get newer versions of windows.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: cerapa on October 26, 2017, 04:45:06 pm
Put it in? Are you kidding me? I'm no expert on DirectX, but there are major differences between versions. It's not as simple as changing a variable from 11 to 9.

It was not all that long ago that I was stubbornly sticking with Windows XP SP1, and I recall several games that required DX10 or 11 and I found workarounds that forced them to use DX9, after which I was able to run them without a hitch. I'm no graphics software expert either, but apparently yes, it is that simple in some cases.

What was the workaround? Were you swapping out DLL's?
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Folly on October 26, 2017, 07:51:10 pm
What was the workaround? Were you swapping out DLL's?

Exact methods varied between games and programs; but generally, yeah, swapping out dll's.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 26, 2017, 08:56:28 pm
and it's the most popular OS anyway...
by a wide margin yes. Which is why it's reasonable to assume you will use it
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: motorbitch on October 27, 2017, 06:30:16 pm
Well, a quick search indicates to me that the only real differences from dx9 to dx11 was the addition of tesselation and multithreaded rendering. Dx10 added more stuff, but not much regarding output (well, it did add anti-aliasing).
this might be true if you just look at the supported features, but its completely wrong if you look under the hood.
the argument "they only do it to sell new versions" is also nonsense. with that argument you could demand that microsoft or the game developers would still support windows 3.11 as well.

Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: qwertyuiopas on November 09, 2017, 12:34:14 pm
The latest journal just came with a new element, two related new glyphs, and a Sigmar's garden variant. Everything's available in the puzzle editor, so it'll be interesting to see what develops.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Farce on November 11, 2017, 04:54:22 pm
I did it!  I feel a little embarrassed for being slower, bigger, and more expensive than like all the rest that've been posted, but it looks pretty so whatever.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also liked how these uns turned out:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Egan_BW on November 15, 2017, 02:30:07 am
788 cycles.
*twitch*
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Ozyton on November 22, 2017, 07:02:47 pm
I haven't been following this, but I just saw a GIF of such a puzzle. Looks much like the typical Zachtronics puzzle to me. The thing making me more interested in this than the other Zactronics game is that this one looks like I'd be able to actually 'complete'... up until I saw that epilogue bit.

Still, it's 10% off right now which is fairly generous considering it's still a new game and not even not 'finished' yet, thinking about getting it (and being terrible at it) anyways. At the very least I'll get that sweet soundtrack I was after.
Title: Re: New Zachtronics game: Opus Magnum
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2017, 10:17:49 pm
They announced a new game! (http://www.zachtronics.com/opus-magnum/) It's available in three days (http://store.steampowered.com/app/558990/Opus_Magnum/), as Early Access probably, but Zachtronics always delivers.

It's a snazzy successor to the Codex of Alchemical Engineering (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-codex-of-alchemical-engineering/), way more closely related than the previous spiritual successor SpaceChem, and I guess here (http://www.zachtronics.com/the-magnum-opus-challenge/)'s where the name comes from.
Sold, PTW, I have never been disappointed by this guy.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2017, 03:08:48 pm
Ah, so this is out!  $20, though it might be 10% off.  I can't see the discount now, but it was there a couple hours ago when I bought it.
I'm barely in, but so far seems cool.  I did love the Codex of Alchemical Engineering.

Gotta ask though:  Is there really no way to zoom out?  I'm constantly worrying about losing pieces off the side of the screen.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: MagmaMcFry on December 14, 2017, 05:56:47 pm
Nah, there's apparently no way to zoom, you can just scroll with rightclick-drag. But if you're worried about losing pieces, just record a gif of your solution, it autoadjusts to your solution and you'll quickly notice any extra pieces.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2017, 06:37:25 pm
Gonna be honest, I hope that gets changed...
I'm definitely enjoying this though.  Including the new minigame - I spent an embarrassing amount of time on the Freecell-like in Shenzen I/O.  This one has Mahjong, and it's really cute.

I'm also enjoying the puzzles, heh.  Just solved the um... potion, at the end of Chapter 1.  I went for speed over cost, and it's the biggest so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm just a little worried since I've clearly only grazed the surface of the game, yet I had to scroll considerably for this.  Ah, but looking through this thread at solutions from the demo, maybe I'm worried over nothing!

I do *really* like the unlimited space, and placing the inputs/outputs.  With so much freedom, it's hard to imagine a puzzle I couldn't solve with disgraceful sprawling inefficiency.  And it would even look pretty cool.

Edit:  omg infinite products
The soundtrack for this is once again right-on, BTW.  Zachtronic knows how to pick music for puzzle games, even back in the Codex.  Even better in SpaceChem, Schenzen, and now this.  Oddly chill yet thought-stimulating.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Rolan7 on December 21, 2017, 03:33:17 pm
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion of this post-release ):

For the record, my issue is almost entirely due to my desktop being a "mere" 1366x768.  My laptop, which lacks a 3D acceleration card of note, is 1920x1080 (oh what times we live in).  There is a huge difference.
What I've been using: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1238462146
My 1920x1080 option: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1238602228

To be frank it's still ridiculous, the game needs a zoom function.  I struggled with above problem for over an hour, partly because I could only see that tiny slice at any time. 

Even more importantly, the much reduced amount of the code lines...  I have an odd conflict that only happens on the second cycle, and I'm not sure how that's even possible, considering the (VERY CONSIDERATE, OMFG) way that arms automatically time themselves to act in sync.

This said, I can't overstate how nice this game is, and I've spent a lot of time with it.  It really is like my initial experience with The Codex of Alchemical Engineering, my favorite Zachtronics game, except much more convenient and with more FREEDOM!  I love it.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Levi on January 05, 2018, 12:05:50 am
I'm proud of my ancient jiggle sword smithing techniques, handed down through my family.  234 cycles.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Rolan7 on January 05, 2018, 12:11:28 am
STAY CLEAR - Monofilament area!
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: Rolan7 on May 04, 2018, 12:26:49 am
Like, gods-damn, I really want to have a solution to some other puzzle which involves *rotating the infinite*.

But it's not within my intellect or patience.
As per the Own thread, I recently "won".

The postgame is, naturally, a mechanical twist.  Hrng.

The story is...
Hm.  I found it satisfying.

This game is far easier than SpaceChem!  People should play it.

Or at least play some of
http://www.zachtronics.com/the-codex-of-alchemical-engineering/
And imagine that the UI and mechanics are much improved.

(Codex is a damn good game on its own, too, just saying)
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: askovdk on May 04, 2018, 03:38:08 am
I can agree that this is a beautiful gem of a game.

As an ‘infinite challenge’, - is it possible to build something that’s infinite in 2 dimensions?
E.g. make a machine that build a solid hexagon of ever increasing size.
I have an idea, but it must wait till after work.
Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: askovdk on May 04, 2018, 10:57:09 am
I can agree that this is a beautiful gem of a game.

As an ‘infinite challenge’, - is it possible to build something that’s infinite in 2 dimensions?
E.g. make a machine that build a solid hexagon of ever increasing size.
I have an idea, but it must wait till after work.

The idea worked  :)  :) (but linking Steam screenshots doesn't? Is there a trick I'm missing?)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1377611243 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1377611243)

Anyway, the principle is to have the builder arm grab a cell that will contain an sphere IFF it should continue to build in the current direction.
If it can grab something, then it will move the entire construct away at that crucial time when the other arm attempts to pivot the construct around the corner, so iff there are more to do, then it grabs nothing and doesn't turn the construct.
The builder arm then moves the construction back and continues, either along a new edge if a turn happened, or along the same.

(Yes, - this could have been made with just one arm)

Title: Re: Opus Magnum (Zachtronics): Automatic Alchemy
Post by: askovdk on August 14, 2018, 03:50:18 am
Bump to mention that Zachtronic have released yet another game(!) into early access.

EXAPUNKS
https://store.steampowered.com/app/716490/EXAPUNKS/?curator_clanid=32946839 (https://store.steampowered.com/app/716490/EXAPUNKS/?curator_clanid=32946839)

Looks like programming logic and pretty cool, but I haven't yet tried it.