Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2017, 03:12:54 pm
The planet Earth rotates slowly beneath you. From your stealth command vessel, you can see them clearly, squabbling in the dirt, unaware of the universe. They do not possess the gift, nor do they posses a physical prowess, like the Mutton or Chrysalid's did. Still, the scans indicate they may show promise, and so they must be investigated and added to the Ethereal empire.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2017, 03:25:45 pm
The design phase has now started. You get to choose 1 design, that will be rolled using the normal 2d4 rules. In addition, you get to design the location and style of your base. Whether you go for a pyramid on Mars or the classical temple ship or something else entirely is your choice. The roll for the base is a guaranteed 6.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 11, 2017, 03:28:23 pm
Also I would love if we advanced the flying scout drone into a Combat Hunter-Killer Drone that had ability to cloak, have advanced A.I, had an electromagnetic pulse it emits that creates a shield around enemy fire from kinetics to energy weapons, and lock-on missiles!
So with our first design let me suggest a design to allow those innovations to take place.
Quote
Scout Drone: A small drone (about the size of a basketball) that utilizes tiny amount elerium to pulse so that it hovers over the ground, and can emit more of the elerium fuel to fly distances of 5-10m off the ground and than hover on its new flying position. Equipped with advanced photoreceptors so that it can track the location of enemies and notice movement in the visible color spectrum, and a shock taser probe Gun on the frontal head of the Scout Drone that horrifically stings when it attacks a biological unit, equipped with a heavy amount of sedatives to make the organics to pass out for future experimentation. The Drone is quite small and can fly, with some maneuverability but this isn't the priority of the design, which makes it a difficult target to hit but is very lightly armored and can't handle attacks from kinetic-based weapons. It would serve as the scout/reconnaissance role for the aliens and maybe has some ability to act as a light skirmished during combat.
Also let's be Terror From the Deep Aliens and have an underwater fortress or something, needs further elaboration from me.
Post by: piratejoe on December 11, 2017, 04:26:59 pm
EDIT: For a base though, we should make one underground on the south pole or in Mt Everest
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 11, 2017, 04:44:10 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 11, 2017, 06:14:20 pm
Quote from: Vote
Scout drone(3) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard.Why do sectoids cost equipment points?
-----------------
Aquatic Base(2) Shadowclaw777, Puppyguard.
Mountain/South pole/Underground base(1) pirateJoe.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 11, 2017, 06:18:56 pm
Post by: milo christiansen on December 11, 2017, 06:56:41 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 11, 2017, 07:08:34 pm
Post by: crazyabe on December 11, 2017, 08:50:26 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 11, 2017, 11:30:00 pm
The aliens advanced engineering technology and ample usage of alien alloys that can handle any sources of heat has allowed us to construct a facility in the center of the human's homeworld. Advanced shielding methods with elerium has allowed the alien base to handle the heat of the magma constantly as well. The main advancement and thing that allows us to launch UFO of this facility is a massive alien elevator shaft from the molten core of Earth to a spot right above Antarctica. We have constructed this facility secretly from the humans while the humanoids were in a Cold War!, they would have never expect an alien force to come from the very thing they live in.
Here's my idea for a alien base in the Molten Core, sounds really interesting.
Post by: piratejoe on December 12, 2017, 01:06:41 am
Post by: Puppyguard on December 12, 2017, 01:22:50 am
Quote from: Vote
Scout drone(3) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard.
-----------------
Inner Core Base(3) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard.
Post by: Greatness942 on December 12, 2017, 02:17:15 am
Quote from: Vote
Scout drone(4) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942
-----------------
Inner Core Base(4) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942
Placing my votes. Guess I'm with the aliens, then.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 12, 2017, 04:28:33 am
Quote from: VoteScout drone(4) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942
-----------------
Inner Core Base(5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, Sprinkled chariot
Placing my votes. Guess I'm with the aliens, then.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 12, 2017, 01:17:53 pm
The guaranteed 6 does not include difficulty mofifiers. So, uhm, if you try to put your base inside a Police Box or Wardrobe, or something silly like that, you may get a penalty.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 12, 2017, 01:42:16 pm
I, uh, don't have any great alternatives at the moment. I mean, I can think of several ideas, but none that have an original feel to them (and aren't Ludicrous).
...I'm just gonna vote for the dark side of the moon. Convenient location, but hard to detect.
The scout drone sounds fine. Although I'm a bit leery about leaning too heavily into tech-based solutions to our problems; our strength is the variety of species we can deploy. But a simple scout is fine, and should be helpful on Harvest missions. And sure, we can upgrade it later.
Quote from: Vote
Design:
Scout drone: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, NUKE9.13
Base:
Inner Core Base: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, Sprinkled chariot
Dark Side of the Moon Base: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 12, 2017, 02:03:12 pm
Horrifying and vicious arthropod : ambush predator, fast, agile, , armed with venomous claws, somewhat damage resistant and most important of all - capable of rapidly increasing own numbers, as every victim becomes incubator for more chryssalids. And on top of it, it senses living creatures bio electricity, so there is no escape.
TlDR : excellent selfmultiplying terror weapon
Dark sewers of cities, jungles, forests, any place except arctics is perfect for them to thrive, also it cant give xcom any new toys in case of interception.
Also, as we are experts in genetics, we somewhat already have expertise in this area.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 12, 2017, 05:00:37 pm
Quote from: Vote
Design:
Scout drone: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, NUKE9.13
Base:
Inner Core Base: (4) piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, Sprinkled chariot
Dark Side of the Moon Base: (2) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw
Sadly my plan has been foiled by Newtonian physics once again, we could probably due a base underwater since with our technology that's really possible, but I guess to not create as much conflict the Lunar Base seems fine.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 12, 2017, 05:01:34 pm
Quote from: Vote
Design:Curse you physics!!!
Scout drone: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, NUKE9.13
Base:
Inner Core Base: (3) piratejoe, Greatness942, Sprinkled chariot
Dark Side of the Moon Base: (3) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 12, 2017, 05:03:19 pm
Quote from: VoteDesign:Curse you physics!!!
Scout drone: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, NUKE9.13
Base:
Inner Core Base: (2) piratejoe, Greatness942,
Dark Side of the Moon Base: (4) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard, Sprinkuhled Churiut
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 13, 2017, 06:00:19 pm
Quote
Dark Side of the Moon Base: (4) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard, Sprinkuhled ChuriutGuaranteed Roll : 6
Located somewhere on the Dark side of the Moon, the Ethereal base is shrouded in mystery. So shrouded in mystery, in fact, that some say not even the Ethereals themselves know what it looks like.
Quote
Scout drone: (5) Shadowclaw777, piratejoe, Puppyguard, Greatness942, NUKE9.13Normal : (4, 2) Above Average
Scout Drone: A small drone (about the size of a basketball) that utilizes tiny amount elerium to pulse so that it hovers over the ground, and can emit more of the elerium fuel to fly distances of 5-10m off the ground and than hover on its new flying position. Equipped with advanced photoreceptors so that it can track the location of enemies and notice movement in the visible color spectrum, and a shock taser probe Gun on the frontal head of the Scout Drone that horrifically stings when it attacks a biological unit, equipped with a heavy amount of sedatives to make the organics to pass out for future experimentation. The Drone is quite small and can fly, with some maneuverability but this isn't the priority of the design, which makes it a difficult target to hit but is very lightly armored and can't handle attacks from kinetic-based weapons. It would serve as the scout/reconnaissance role for the aliens and maybe has some ability to act as a light skirmished during combat
The scout drone is the newest addition to the Ethereal arsenal. The silvery-metal spheres may look innocent as they dart across a battlefield, but they're highly effective hunters. Equipped with an array of sedative injectors as well as a powerfull shock weapon, the drone can make quick work of any unprepared opponent. It posseses an excellent sensor suite and great mobility, but short range and near-non existent armor restrict it to a skirmisher and scouting role. In addition to it's combat capabilities, the Scout drone is also highly effective in gathering up ordinary humans.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the Mission Planning Phase.
Using your available resources, create as many missions as you want to attack any of the places on the list below.
Example
1 Small Ufo [Harvest mission]
2/2 Sectoid Squads
2 Meld Containers
Nigeria
Africa
---> Egypt
---> South Africa
---> Nigeria
Asia
--->Australia
--->China
--->India
--->Japan
Europe
--->France
--->Germany
--->Russia
--->United Kingdom
North America
--->Canada
--->Mexico
--->United States
South America
--->Argentina
--->Brazil
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 13, 2017, 06:14:09 pm
Quote from: Plan A
The loadouts are obvious. Sectoids do the lifting of Meld (where available) and shooting of hostiles, whilst Scout Drones help to acquire living specimens (and, you know, scout).Quote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: EgyptQuote from: Mission 2Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: South AfricaQuote from: Mission 3Mission Type: HarvestTotal cost: 3VP, 6UP, 2EP
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols) (1UP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Nigeria
The destinations, however, are less obvious. Plan A is to hit all of Africa this turn, on the basis that XCOM is unlikely to be running interceptions there- I'm assuming they have multiple interceptors, which will be working to cover as much of the globe as possible. Then next turn, hit Africa again, because they'll never see that coming.
Also, sorry about not including a base description. I'll get right on that.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 13, 2017, 06:22:40 pm
Quote from: Vote
Nuke's Plan A(2) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 13, 2017, 06:32:20 pm
We selected a site for the base and quickly started construction. Strangely, we uncovered the remains of an Earthling craft that had been launched roughly 80 years ago- but there are no signs of active lunar missions at present, so we should be good.
The base follows standard patterns; it is made up of interlocking hexagonal buildings which house various facilities. All the essentials are present- generators, factories, cloning vats, hangars, research labs, specimen containment.
The buildings are formed out of alloy frames and walls, covered in bricks made of processed lunar material- causing the base to blend in with its surroundings that little bit better.
Notably, the base is ripe for expansion, as more buildings can always be added.
This look okay for a base description? It's pretty bare bones, so if somebody wants to write a more comprehensive/exotic description, please do. This is intended as a fallback if we can't think of anything better.
Post by: piratejoe on December 14, 2017, 01:39:54 am
Quote from: Vote
Nuke's Plan A(3) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe.I like the plan, although I would rather hit a location like Asia or America to really hit their funding, your plan states why that might not be the best idea. Of course, they also might just find our UFO's anyway when its their turn and it depends on where they placed their first base to see if they could actually do something about it. Next turn if we can, we should make a medium scout UFO.
Also, isn't the mission type we started out with technically a abduction mission? (http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Alien_Missions)
Edit, just noticed that you wrote 80 years ago for the space craft we found. Nice reference to the arms race that started it all.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 14, 2017, 02:31:56 am
Post by: piratejoe on December 14, 2017, 03:13:45 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 14, 2017, 02:06:42 pm
Quote from: Vote
Nuke's Plan A(4) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Failbird105.You know what, fuggit, joining.
So, I'd assume we can use revisions on our aliens, which leads to a question, do our sectoids know how to mind meld?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 14, 2017, 02:09:53 pm
So, I'd assume we can use revisions on our aliens, which leads to a question, do our sectoids know how to mind meld?
They know how to do a Mind Merge, if you mean the XCOM ability. A revision could certainly improve it, however.
If you mean the Vulcan Mind reading thing, no, they don't know how to do it.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 14, 2017, 02:17:04 pm
coulda sworn it was meld. but yes I did mean the XCom ability.So, I'd assume we can use revisions on our aliens, which leads to a question, do our sectoids know how to mind meld?
They know how to do a Mind Merge, if you mean the XCOM ability. A revision could certainly improve it, however.
If you mean the Vulcan Mind reading thing, no, they don't know how to do it.
Post by: ~Neri on December 14, 2017, 03:13:00 pm
Cause LW sectoids get stuff like mindfray and psipanic too.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 14, 2017, 03:38:12 pm
Though,it's your design, your choice. You want to make a fancy alien, then design a fancy alien.
Post by: ~Neri on December 14, 2017, 03:46:01 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 14, 2017, 04:48:36 pm
Mind Clutch
Mind Merge allows a sectoid to provide one of there allies with an extra viewpoint to aim with, and targeting information to use, but has the cost of lethal feedback if the initiator dies.
The simple idea of Mind Clutch is literally just to allow a sectoid to force mind merge with an enemy. The effect of this is threefold, they are disoriented by a second viewpoint, confused by incorrect targeting information, and if the initiator is killed while clutching then the victim dies as well. All this, and the only change is who the power is used on.
Post by: ~Neri on December 14, 2017, 05:24:03 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 14, 2017, 05:40:59 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 14, 2017, 06:03:19 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 14, 2017, 06:23:12 pm
If our UFO going to Egypt is intercepted, they probably went the classic Europe rout and have a base there, if our UFO's in Nigeria and Egypt or South Africa gets intercepted, they have a base in Africa, If our UFO in South Africa goes down but nothing else, then they have a base in the south pole. Of course, if somehow, all UFO's go down, then either the mechanics for spotting UFO's are weird, or they have a base in the perfect spot in Africa to reach everything.
If Egypt UFO goes down, attack America or Asia, as their radar wont reach there, if South America, Go Europe or North America, if two or all three go down, Asia, the America's, or maybe Europe depending on which UFO's went down.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 14, 2017, 06:37:52 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 15, 2017, 06:34:38 am
Quote
Of course, if somehow, all UFO's go down, then either the mechanics for spotting UFO's are weird,
The mechanics for spotting UFO's do not rely solely on a base radar. Given you free play over 70% of the map would be too unbalancing.
Post by: piratejoe on December 15, 2017, 06:42:19 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 15, 2017, 06:56:34 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 15, 2017, 07:41:00 am
Quote from: Mission 1
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Egypt
Quote from: Mission 2
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: South Africa
Quote from: Mission 3
Mission Type: HarvestTotal cost: 3VP, 6UP, 2EP[/quote]
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols) (1UP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Nigeria
Missions launched.
Ethereal Dark-Side-of-the-Moon Base: Earth has a convenient natural satellite that is tidally locked, meaning one side always faces away. This should serve well to bamboozle the Earthlings' primitive attempts to discover our base, whilst being relatively nearby (as compared to Mars, for example).
We selected a site for the base and quickly started construction. Strangely, we uncovered the remains of an Earthling craft that had been launched roughly 80 years ago- but there are no signs of active lunar missions at present, so we should be good.
The base follows standard patterns; it is made up of interlocking hexagonal buildings which house various facilities. All the essentials are present- generators, factories, cloning vats, hangars, research labs, specimen containment.
The buildings are formed out of alloy frames and walls, covered in bricks made of processed lunar material- causing the base to blend in with its surroundings that little bit better.
Notably, the base is ripe for expansion, as more buildings can always be added..
Isolated but with plenty of room for expansion, the Darkside of the Moon base allows for easy expansion and efficient production of goods. It's an excellent start with the potential to become far greater. Already, the expansive base facilities offer us greater support and resources.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the revision phase
AABBCCDD
Post by: Failbird105 on December 15, 2017, 07:45:07 am
Quote from: Revisions
Mind Clutch(1) Failbird105
Post by: piratejoe on December 15, 2017, 07:47:44 am
Quote from: Revisions
Mind Clutch(2) Failbird105, Piratejoe
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 15, 2017, 09:19:41 am
Quote from: Revisions
Mind Clutch(3) Failbird105, Piratejoe, NUKE9.13I'm not in love with this idea, but I don't have any better ones.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 15, 2017, 10:49:02 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 15, 2017, 11:15:01 am
Would it be more easy then giving greys sort of mindblastMost likely. It's literally just taking what we already have and changing one thing about it, rather than making an entirely new psychic ability for them.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 15, 2017, 12:56:43 pm
Quote from: Revisions
Mind Clutch(4) Failbird105, Piratejoe, NUKE9.13, Puppyguard.We haven't had any large issues with other designs yet, so I'm voting for mind clutch.
Post by: ~Neri on December 15, 2017, 01:41:10 pm
Quote from: RevisionsMind Clutch(5) Failbird105, Piratejoe, NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Kevak.They won’t expect it and more fun psionic bullshit is great.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 17, 2017, 12:39:53 pm
Mind Clutch
Quote
Mind Merge allows a sectoid to provide one of there allies with an extra viewpoint to aim with, and targeting information to use, but has the cost of lethal feedback if the initiator dies.Easy : 4+ 4 +1 = 9 Major Unexpected boon
The simple idea of Mind Clutch is literally just to allow a sectoid to force mind merge with an enemy. The effect of this is threefold, they are disoriented by a second viewpoint, confused by incorrect targeting information, and if the initiator is killed while clutching then the victim dies as well. All this, and the only change is who the power is used on.
Reversed Mind Merge : Mind merge is a simple yet dangerous technique, fit only for disposable creatures such as the sectoid. The union of minds may grant extra focus and knowledge, but it also shares weakness. Should the initiator of the link die, then the reciever dies as well. It's an intriguing idea then, to share this poisoned gift with our enemies. But more intriguing than that, is to simply take it from them. The reversed mind merge allows a sectoid to merge with an enemies mind, and draw upon it for focus. The enemy is left dazzled and confused while the Sectoid can see through it's senses.
Battle Resolution
Quote from: Mission 1
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Egypt
The small UFO tears through the thin atmosphere above Egypt at hypersonic velocity, descending steadily towards it's destination. It's sleek, dark hull blends with the darkness of space above, it's flickering shields making it shimmer as if it were a gemstone set into the sky. It's a serenely beautiful sight, which is shattered suddenly when UFO's plasma turret opens fire.
A burst of veridiscent plasma bursts through the sky, only narrowly missing the small interceptor that suddenly intrudes upon the scene. It's design clearly reflects that of technology base still shackled by air breathing engines and aerodynamics. Unlike the round UFO, which can fly equally well in any direction, the interceptor has a clearly visible front and back, and wings loaded with ordinance.
Closing quickly, the interceptor launches a missile from beneath each wings. The deadly projectiles sweep towards the UFO, which enters a tight turn to avoid them. One missile looses course and overshoots, the other hits dead on. The warhead detonates, and a supersonic jet of liquid metal pierces through the strong hull alloy. For a moment, the aft shield flickers, then fails. Instantly, the contents of the compartment are sucked out, the scout drones and meld containers falling out of the sky. Wounded, but far from defeated, the Ufo continues on.
Another missile volley erupts from the wings of the interceptor, sweeping towards their target. A veridiscent plasma burst speeds the other way, hitting the cockpit head on. The superheated plasma washes over the plane, scouring away the paint, melting the fuselage, until the entire thing desintegrated, half melted parts dropping down towards the Earth.
But even from death the interceptor still strikes true. The two missiles strike true, piercing the armor and damaging the anti-grav. The UFO tumbles from the sky, and it's only through great effort, and despite serious injuries, that a successful landing in the desert is made. Luckily, the damage turns out to be repairable and after several vulnerable hours the UFO limps home.
Result : Mission Intercepted, UFO got away.
Mission 2
Quote
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: South Africa
Fire engulfs the UFO as it descends towards the Earth from space. It's shields and armor keep it safe from the heat of the flame, but not from it's effect. Blinded by the heat of re-entry, the UFO can not see what occurs beneath it. It doesn't see the interceptor carefully lining up until it is too late, and 4 missiles streak towards. One misses entirely, while two others tear large rents in the hull, but don't damage anything vital. The fourth hits dead center, tearing through the elerium power source. An explosion engulfs the craft, leaving behind nothing but falling debris.
Result : UFO Destroyed
Quote
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols) (1UP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Nigeria
Contrary to the two other missions, the Nigerian team has a leisurely flight down to the surface, settling down near a small village in the lightly population Nigerian interior. The scout drones prove their effectiveness here, rapidly disabling a few local militia men, and then being a great aid in herding up humans. The greatest issue now is the time it takes for the frail sectoids to gather these disabled humans in their ship. With struggle, one can carry a child, but several are needed to move the adult specimens.
The operation is nearly finished when the UFO turret suddenly starts firing wildly into the sky. A small metal construction, obviously a human reconnaissance droid, drops out of the sky not much later. Hurried now, the sectoids starts clearing the ramps and preparing the ship, but they don't quite manage it before another plane arrives. Larger, but more importantly more cautious, this one doesn't fall prey to our ships plasma turret. Instead it drops off several soldiers, then moves off again.
The battle that follows is brutal, but brief. The enemy soldiers show serious tenacity, fighting on even while distracted by the Mind Meld, even with skin burned by plasma shots. But they're outnumbered, and we know their locations. Scout drones flit up from unexpected areas, shocking or injecting, these soldiers. They do not survive these attacks, but each one takes another enemy. The enemy fights as well as they can, holding on even as our sectoids simply start shooting plasma through the walls of the building they're in. Not one of them is killed without taking at least one of us with them, but they die all the same.
With the town left burning behind us, the remaining sectoids take off with the UFO and have uneventful flight back to base.
Result : Operation Succesful
You have gained 1 UP Token. A UP token can be spend on any UP costing design, and counts as if you 1 UP worth of that design permanently. For example, spend it on sectoids to get 1 free sectoid.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the second Design phase
AABBCCDD
Post by: Failbird105 on December 17, 2017, 12:53:48 pm
However they managed to take down one of our ships(during atmospheric reentry even), and hit the other one hard. Should we improve our ships then?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2017, 12:58:26 pm
They detected all three missions, and successfully intercepted two, whilst sending soldiers to interfere with the third. Presumably they only have so many Interceptors, otherwise they would've likely shot the third as well.
Bollocks. I guess they have their base near or in Africa. If not, then we have a serious problem, as a 100% success rate for detection anywhere on Earth is obviously crippling.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 17, 2017, 01:00:08 pm
-snip- Should we improve our ships then?Well, We also had problems moving the unconscious abductees into our spacecrafts, so I say we do a design on something to move them easier, and a revision on our ships.
-snip-If not, then we have a serious problem, as a 100% success rate for detection anywhere on Earth is obviously crippling.We could do a revision on modifying the alloy plates of our craft to deflect scans.
Limbhound
A six legged dog like creature with two arms above its middle legs. its simple mind allows the sectoids to order it around, but its bulk lets it both tackle foes and carry specimens.
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound(1) Puppyguard.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2017, 01:06:42 pm
Medium Scout: Basically just a slightly larger version of the Small Scout, equipped with two cores, three turrets, and enough room for three units. It should be both more likely to survive an attack, and more effective mission-wise.
I like the Limbhound for our design.
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (2) Puppyguard, NUKE9.13
Post by: Failbird105 on December 17, 2017, 01:26:28 pm
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (3) Puppyguard, NUKE9.13, Failbird105Hmm... I like the limbhound, and can definitely both agree to the reasoning see interesting ways to improve it.
Can we agree that they have heads and skin like elites from Halo? Because I think that would look alot better then basic dog monsters.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 17, 2017, 01:28:05 pm
Chryssalid
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
TLDR : zombie apocalypse bugs making people burst into more zombie apocalypse bugs for maximum terror
By dumping them in several remote but populated areas like south America and China we can give xcom massive pain in the ass. Also will double as scouts and attack dogs/ haulers for sectors teams.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2017, 01:39:07 pm
Also, just going by the game all the time would be boring. Spice it up a little, ye ken?
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 17, 2017, 02:39:32 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 17, 2017, 02:53:21 pm
Large Scout: Unlike our small scout, this ship is a bit bigger and has multiple rooms inside of it. In the center of the craft is its engine, a single large elerium reactor, while the only entrance to this room is through the navigation room which connects to the entrance and storage of the ship that is made to be well defended just in case the humans manage to somehow get inside the spacecraft. Naturally, due to its size, it has more firepower then our small scout, but still, it should be quite useful for getting bigger returns on our missions.
Alternatively...
Light Fighter:A small UFO smaller then that of our Small Scout, it is designed for one thing and one thing only, fighting and dodging the enemies fire. This UFO is controlled by no pilot, it being a kind of drone that has the sole purpose of protecting our UFO's and killing any interceptor that tries to harm our own ships. It also will protect our UFO when said UFO has landed, giving ground support and killing anything that tries to fly in and help the enemy. Unlike our current UFO's, it is armed with three plasma cannons which are at the 'front' of the craft, two on symmetrical wing like spikes pointed 'forward' (think something kinda like the old cylon raiders in Battle star galactica (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/galacticafanon/images/0/02/Cylon_Raiders_Mark_II_%28Reconnaissance_Raider_-_Light_Raider%29.png/revision/latest?cb=20110814023459) just the wings are closer to each other, the craft isn't so wide, the engines are merged together and look more like a part of the main craft and there is no cockpit.) and one in between them, and its engine is powered by a single reactor and is specially designed for maximum momentum when in combat, although normal hovering or slow moving speed is possible as well.
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (3) Puppyguard, NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (1) Piratejoe
Light Fighter: (0)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2017, 03:06:07 pm
Which is why Medium Scout shouldn't be in the votebox, as it is not intended to be a design.
Anyway, I doubt we have a 100% detection rate, I think we probably got unlucky and their base is in Africa or something. This turn, we can hit some further-flung regions. If we still get a 100% detection rate, then we know we're in serious trouble.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 17, 2017, 03:12:24 pm
I think land bound should design a new gun, either a ipgraded plasma or stun launcher from original x com or maybe a predator cloaking device thing. (Which will be handy when better troops happen.)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 17, 2017, 04:25:27 pm
But we really need not to get shot down for xcom not to turboboost their research
Post by: Failbird105 on December 17, 2017, 05:29:46 pm
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (2) Puppyguard, NUKE9.13But the limbhound comes next turn.
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (1) Piratejoe
Light Fighter: (1) Failbird105
Post by: piratejoe on December 17, 2017, 05:39:40 pm
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (2) Puppyguard, NUKE9.13
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (0)
Light Fighter: (2) Failbird105, Piratejoe
EDIT: Where do we see panic levels? Or do we not get to see that?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 17, 2017, 05:48:28 pm
personally I think a different kind of drone would do just as well as the limbhound if not better.As in, a robotic entity? Because if so, I strongly disagree. Being able to conjure up different species is a unique advantage we have over XCOM. Unless I've totally misjudged what the GM is going for, of two units designed to do the same thing in more or less the same way, the organic one will be better.
So, let's say hypothetically that we do the fighter. What do you plan to revise if it goes well?
Post by: piratejoe on December 17, 2017, 06:18:41 pm
Regardless, an idea I have is we could make a kind of bomber that throws a large blast of plasma below it to destroy something important, such as a oil rig, or a ship, or a building. We could use it to raise panic and cause a bit of chaos and maybe we could go so far as to make a kind of terror like mission where we level a city just by bombing the hell out of it instead of dropping troops, kinda like something the Aliens in Xenonauts can do.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 17, 2017, 06:26:13 pm
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (1) NUKE9.13We can do the limbhound next turn.
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (0)
Light Fighter: (3) Failbird105, Piratejoe, Puppyguard.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 17, 2017, 06:42:22 pm
We probably should do something a bit more for the limbhound then currently wanted in its design, though personally I think a different kind of drone would do just as well as the limbhound if not better.I do think the limbhound could use a bit more to its design(from both a fluff and function standpoint), but I disagree with you on the "drone is better" thing for two big reasons: 1. Drones can be salvaged by XCom, potentially giving them insight into our tech. 2. Machines do not benefit from our psionics.
Post by: piratejoe on December 17, 2017, 06:45:14 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 17, 2017, 06:48:18 pm
Actually, thinking about it, why not just get reapers? You know, the things that floaters have along with them on terror missions? That seems kinda like the limbhound but larger...Also we probably should call it something a bit better then that...I was actually thinking about those. Though I had been thinking more on the concept for the NuCom version, which was more froglike and basically just ate your troops and you had to kill it quick to save them.
Edit: I refreshed myself on their design, I see the problem, they lack forelimbs of any sort, that would need to be fixed.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 17, 2017, 06:50:13 pm
As for bombers. I say wait until we have resources for a flying battleship. If going to do such a thing, why stop at some parts of city and not just lay the whole thing to waste?
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 17, 2017, 07:07:58 pm
While sectoid individual capability for gift is not something to impress us, by designing special psyamplifying chamber in our ships, we can unite multiple sectoids in one horrifying psychic force with much greater range and ability to mentally dominate and horrify at small populations scale.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 17, 2017, 07:18:01 pm
Quote from: VoteLimbhound: (1) NUKE9.13We can do the limbhound next turn.
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (0)
Light Fighter: (4) Failbird105, Piratejoe, Puppyguard, Tyrant Leviathan.
Post by: crazyabe on December 17, 2017, 07:21:46 pm
Quote from: Vote
Limbhound: (1) NUKE9.13
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (0)
Light Fighter: (5) Failbird105, Piratejoe, Puppyguard, Tyrant Leviathan, Crazyabe
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 17, 2017, 10:52:53 pm
But anyways, I think we should try to differciate the fight in the globe this turn, scattering the aliens in Japan, Egypt, and Brazil would serve to give difficulty in the variety of areas we attack to.
I have a great idea for an revision actually...
Radar Jammer: A technological device that can be implemented onto any shipcraft that has differentiating sizes to allow it perform on perfect efficacy for larger ships. When this device is installed to a shipcraft than it performs a jamming signal in a 10km area around it that blocks any signals that try to track the UFOs. While it means that the enemy humanoids know that the aliens are in somewhere in the general vicinity, they can't track the exact location which will make it really difficult to intercept our shipcrafts. Further expansion on this technology can create a ECM that performs a jamming signal against enemy guided missiles, making them ill-effective against or ships. An effective revision that allows our Ships to be much more difficult intercepted.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 18, 2017, 03:22:17 pm
In which case, as a possible revision, hows about
Sectoid Strengthening: DNA retrieved from the Earthlings we harvested in Nigeria has already proven its worth, as we find that splicing a few key genomes into Sectoid DNA results in improved strength and resilience, without adversely affecting other traits. As a result, our Sectoids can now carry greater loads, and endure more damage in a fight. Not massively so- we have not made discount Mutons here, but their performance should improve noticeably.
And for our plan, assuming the fighter works and costs 1VP (or less), we send two missions out, to South America and East Asia, each consisting of a fighter and a scout (with the same loadouts as last time).
Post by: piratejoe on December 18, 2017, 04:27:10 pm
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 20, 2017, 10:46:16 am
Quote from: votebox
Limbhound: (1) NUKE9.13
Medium Scout: (0)
Large Scout: (0)
Light Fighter: (6) Failbird105, Piratejoe, Puppyguard, Tyrant Leviathan, Crazyabe, SamSpeeds
I guess this is mostly just personal preference, but could we get a more detailed design for the fighter? We obviously need it but the current design description seems a little bare. Things like: How many weapons does it have? What kind? What shape is it? How many engines does it have? should be answered. Also, can we name it something cooler than "light fighter"?
Post by: piratejoe on December 20, 2017, 11:16:33 am
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 20, 2017, 11:35:31 am
Post by: piratejoe on December 20, 2017, 12:01:10 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 20, 2017, 12:23:32 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 20, 2017, 12:47:50 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 20, 2017, 01:03:53 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 20, 2017, 01:23:07 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 20, 2017, 01:38:41 pm
Normal: 3 + 1 = 4 (Below Average)
The Light Fighter is a small automated UFO less than half the size of the small Scout. As a remotely controlled vehicle, it possesses no lifesupport nor any meaningful cargo carrying capacity. Instead, it has been given a forward armament of 3 simple plasma cannons of the same size and power as the single cannon that can be found on the small scout. This makes it a dangerously destructive opponent in the air, though perhaps too destructive on the ground. Beyond that, it's capabilities are more or less identical to the small UFO.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the second Attack phase
AABBCCDD
Post by: piratejoe on December 20, 2017, 01:42:24 pm
Anyway, mission time
(Plan Z)
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout, 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Japan
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Brazil
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 20, 2017, 01:52:23 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 20, 2017, 01:55:20 pm
Quote from: Votes
piratejoe's 'Plan Z': (2) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 20, 2017, 01:57:03 pm
((Also it should totally be called the UFF))
Quote from: Votes
piratejoe's 'Plan Z': (3) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, SamSpeeds
As for revisions, I support the STRONG Sectoids Initiative. Should kill a few birds with one stone (carrying capacity, weakness). Could we give them extra arms or something?
Post by: Failbird105 on December 20, 2017, 02:31:08 pm
Quote from: Votes
piratejoe's 'Plan Z': (4) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, SamSpeeds, Failbird105
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 20, 2017, 07:12:06 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 20, 2017, 07:22:35 pm
Btw, second turn design phase has no revision phase ?Xcom gets to work on revisions directly after they make their designs, but we have to wait until we send our missions out first.
Spoiler: Basic Rules (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greatness942 on December 21, 2017, 02:14:58 pm
Quote from: Votes
piratejoe's 'Plan Z': (5) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, SamSpeeds, Failbird105, Greatness942
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 22, 2017, 03:19:07 pm
Quote from: Missions Launched
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout, 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Japan
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Brazil
Missions launched and underway
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the Revision phase
AABBCCDD
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 22, 2017, 04:10:56 pm
Using harvested DNA, we've made the Sectoids stronger and tougher, without adversely affecting their other traits. Also they have 4 arms now, the extra pair sprouting from a new set of shoulders protruding from the back. As a result, they can carry heavier loads, tank more damage, and carry multiple weapons/carry a stolen human AND fire weapons at the same time.
If y'all think 4 arms is too much for a revision, feel free to go with NUKE's idea. I think it should allow us to magnify our firepower basically for free.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 22, 2017, 04:18:00 pm
I'm gonna vote for my earlier suggestion.
Sectoid Strengthening: DNA retrieved from the Earthlings we harvested in Nigeria has already proven its worth, as we find that splicing a few key genomes into Sectoid DNA results in improved strength and resilience, without adversely affecting other traits. As a result, our Sectoids can now carry greater loads, and endure more damage in a fight. Not massively so- we have not made discount Mutons here, but their performance should improve noticeably.
Quote from: Vote Box
Sectoid Strengthening: (1) NUKE9.13
STRONG Sectoids: (1) SamSpeeds
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 22, 2017, 04:18:56 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 22, 2017, 04:49:32 pm
Quote from: Vote Box
Sectoid Strengthening: (3) NUKE9.13, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105I don't think 4 arms is too ambitious as its own revision(too little for a design certainly), but I think that plus the strengthening is.
STRONG Sectoids: (1) SamSpeeds
Post by: piratejoe on December 22, 2017, 05:05:32 pm
Quote from: Vote Box
Sectoid Strengthening: (4) NUKE9.13, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, PiratejoeXcom 2 Sectoids are GO
STRONG Sectoids: (1) SamSpeeds
Edit: Do our revisions get applied immediately or do they only appear next turn? Just curious because if they only appear next turn, well, that's a slight disadvantage.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 22, 2017, 11:34:55 pm
Quote from: Vote Box
Sectoid Strengthening: (5) NUKE9.13, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, Piratejoe, Puppyguard.Judging by last battle report, I think they are applied immediately. I think our ships aren't launched yet but the plans are locked in.
STRONG Sectoids: (1) SamSpeeds
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 23, 2017, 02:13:04 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 23, 2017, 12:19:02 pm
Recruit Collaborators: Not all Earthlings are irrationally opposed to our efforts to bring them into the Great Plan. Many are, for various reasons, willing to cooperate. Some want wealth, their desire for the worthless metal they call "Gold" overwhelming xenophobia. Others want knowledge, and will work for us in exchange for meaningless secrets. Some simply want to be a part of something greater than themselves. Whatever their motivation, we can accomodate them.
We send a team of negotiators to contact susceptible individuals, establishing communications and providing whatever it is they desire. Subsequently, the converted Earthlings will serve us, providing information on their country's actions, offering assistance in further missions, and spreading our influence to make way for our eventual takeover.
Mechanically, the goal of this mission is to contact, negotiate with, and then ensure the safe and anonymous departure of our new allies. Should XCOM interfere, they should be either eliminated, or kept away from the negotiations long enough for them to conclude, and prevented from identifying our collaborators.
Later on, we might revise that into :
High Level Negotiation: Certain members of the ruling classes of Earth have come to understand that our victory is inevitable. They are ready to discuss a peaceful resolution to this 'conflict'. We can offer them trinket technology, cessation or limitation of our activities in their country, and positions of power in the new world order. In exchange, they will reduce or halt funding for the XCOM project, willingly provide us with the materials and knowledge that we seek, and promise to assist us when we enter the final stages of assimilating Earth.
We will send a team of diplomats to a country which is ready to negotiate, and discuss matters with individual members of the local elite.
Mechanically, the goal of this mission is to contact, negotiate with, and then ensure the safe and anonymous departure of our new allies. Should XCOM interfere, they should be either eliminated, or kept away from the negotiations long enough for them to conclude, and prevented from identifying our collaborators.
A new species that would help a lot with both, mostly ripped from XCOM 2012:
Thin Man: Combining a selection of human DNA with some reptiloid stock in the gene banks produces this tall, thin species, which superficially resembles Earthlings. Clad in Earth clothing, they are able to blend in amongst people not paying too much attention, and can serve as negotiators and diplomats. Additionally, they are extremely agile, making them formidable foes in combat. Their capacity for the Gift is limited, though they do exude a psionic glamour that decreases the chances of people noticing them.
Something(s) a little bigger to fly around in:
Medium Harvester: Enough scouting. This is a ship dedicated to harvesting-style missions. Equipped with three cores, enough space for four units, and three plasma turrets, the Harvester also features a Tractor Beam, which can suck up people, animals, cars, and whatever else we feel like, to be sorted and stored away in the many holding cells in the ship.
Medium Invader: Simple ships are all fine and well for scouting and harvesting, but what about large-scale assaults? You need to be able to drop a substantial number of troops, and provide them with support. The Invader is designed for such purposes. A three-core ship, it is slower than scouts, but more heavily armoured. It has room for 6 units, four plasma turrets, and a new Plasma Mortar, not useful for ship-ship combat, but rather best employed in support of ground troops, providing artillery coverage across the entire battlefield.
Something to distract XCOM from the bigger things we are flying around in:
Unmanned Decoy: This extremely simple craft features only one notable piece of technology; the Decoy Beacon, which projects the image and radar signature of a much larger ship (the exact shape and size can be determined before launch). When XCOM sends interceptors to hunt down the threatening vessel, the Decoy will speed away, leading them on a merry chase. Should it be damaged and risk being shot down, it will self-destruct, rather than let XCOM capture even a scrap of our technology.
Another thing we'll want to consider is a mission type for setting up outposts on Earth:
Outpost Establishment: As our operations expand, doing everything from the far side of the moon becomes tricky. To improve our logistics, we need to establish a semi-permanent presence on Earth. Choosing a remote location, we dispatch a team of soldiers and engineers to secure the site and begin construction. Outposts will follow a common pattern- constructed primarily underground, featuring a camouflaged hangar entrance large enough for a Small Scout to land in, storehouses for supplies, a local command center, and barracks for troops to stay in.
Initially, we will use them to gather information and resources without having to launch missions from the moon all the time. More overt activity should be limited until we can expand the outpost into a proper base, which can be reinforced against XCOM counterattack.
Which to be worthwhile will require improved stealth tech, so we can set up outposts and be fairly confident that XCOM does not know exactly where they are:
Improved Cloaking: In order to avoid detection by the Earthlings, we have equipped our ships with these new cloaking devices. They use advanced materials to redirect both visible light and radar waves around themselves, making them all-but impossible to detect with the Earthlings' primitive sensors.
Post by: ~Neri on December 23, 2017, 12:30:52 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 23, 2017, 12:47:50 pm
edit: That said, I want to try making Reapers(from oldcom), I'll have a draft of the design itself up later
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 23, 2017, 02:56:24 pm
Human head sized creature with four powerful tiny legs and jaws in the middle, jaws have neurotoxin gland and egg layer.
Creature instincts guide it to seek hard to reach places like vents, holes, sewers and seek to ambush any earthling creature.
One powerful leap out of shadow and as knocked out victim gets paralyzed by venom, it becomes host of several new genetic horrors.
Silent Reaper
By gene splicing DNA of diseases found in captured humans and DNA of different microorganisms we encountered in our search for the gift, the perfect plague was born : not only it is virulent and gene tailored to be extremely lethal to earthlings, virus
does not show up any symptoms for first two weeks, making pandemic sudden and brutal.
gatling turboplasma turrets ( revision probably)
By using rotating block of barrels instead of just one and enhancing turret targeting systems, our engineers designed effective CIWS to shoot down enemy missiles, craft and SCORCHE EVERYTHING.
Post by: piratejoe on December 23, 2017, 03:33:46 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 23, 2017, 03:56:18 pm
however, I said I would do this, so I will.
Tyrannobufous
Or "Tyrant Toad", this creature originated from the muton homeworld, where it was referred to in their language as a "reaper", it shares a surprising number of genetic similarities with earth toads. It possesses brutal jaws for ripping through armor and flesh, and and being of great size, more than twice that of a human. The Tyrant Toads most important trait is its powerful back legs, allowing it to leap forward great distances and carry heavy loads. However they are simple beasts in mind, and their lack of front legs or a tail means it can lose its balance relatively easily, however this issue can likely be solved with the addition of previously mentioned relatively compatible toad DNA.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 23, 2017, 05:10:52 pm
1: Improve our Guns.
2: X Com 2 style sectoids.
3: We do need more units and missions. Thinking when we have enough invest in terror and inflirtatiin stuff. That’s down the line ( need siege units for terror, human looking minions for other.)
4: Invest in more psionic powers.
Post by: piratejoe on December 23, 2017, 06:40:57 pm
Fighter Algorithm Improvements: By making our light Fighters truly autonomous and not reliant on any nearby ship, we can deploy them anywhere on the earth without the need of a larger mothership to control them. This can also allow it to utilize its construction better and react thousands of times faster then any mere sectoid controller could ever hope. This will result in more agile fighters that can tell the difference between human aircraft and our UFO's, know how to engage and destroy human aircraft in an efficient manner, and of course, be able to dodge and get into the blind spots of enemy aircraft.
Air Superiority: This Mission is exactly what it says on the tin. Its simple air superiority designed to shoot down anything that enters the range of our UFF's, whether or not the targets are military or civilian does not matter to us. The goal of these missions is just simply take down anything Xcom sends at us and cause a bit of panic by destroying anything else the ships can see flying. Can also be useful to test out how the humans are doing with their air combat designs by pitching them against our own as we know they would attack, after all, they wouldn't want a passenger aircraft getting shot down and possibly hitting a city now, would they?
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 23, 2017, 06:46:31 pm
Here's some stuff I've thought of. Of course, the descriptions are a tad lackluster because it's more of a checklist than anything.
Plasma Rifle: Plasma weapon in rifle form. Higher rate of fire, more accurate, more powerful, longer ranged, and has an attachment rail.
Massive UFO: Bigly Huge UFO, armed with tons of high powered plasma turrets +whatever else we come up with beforehand (preferably a WMD like a glassing cannon too), can carry a big large handful of units, and a fighter complement. Shielding, stealth tech, automated self repairs, onboard factories, and a self destruction device would probably be necessary to make it viable.
Mission - Glass: Just annihilate a city lol
STRONG Sectoids: We NEED our sectoids to have four arms people. This is NOT OPTIONAL!
Stealth Tech: Optic Metamaterials, radar deflection/absorbtion, shipwide teleportation, etc would all probably serve to circumvent whatever they're using to detect us instantly. (They did detect us, right? They didn't just have interceptors on patrol?)
Hoomans: Like Thin Men (which are cool and should happen as well), but with a greater focus on absolutely blending in with the normal populace. They'll have like 90% human DNA, and are identical from the outside. They'll have an increased intellect, and will seek to infiltrate all levels of society and Cause a Ruckus.
Mission - Infiltrate: Drop some Hoomans and/or Thin Men into a community in the chosen country. With advanced onboard cloning technology, perhaps it could be combined with Harvest to allow us to take humans and replace them with Hooman clones in one run, making entire dummy communities. Very scary!
Self Destruct Device: We should really be able to detonate all of our technology should the need arise. By overloading the Elerium power sources, or doing something similar to Meld sterilization, we can ensure our technology is as safe as possible, and even dangerous to recover for humanity. Ship based SDD's should be able to be activated manually by personnel, or automatically by shipboard sensors and a computer to calculate the odds of imminent capture. It's probably only viable to have equipment detonate with manual input, but maybe we could do it remotely.
Scout Drone Mk2 - Bigger, faster drone with flight capabilities due to its upsized engine and wings. Utilizes infared and radar sensors as well as its default. Has a Laser Rifle built into the head, as well as its originial nonlethal weaponry. It can now be deployed prior to landing to defeat local resistance and gather intelligence beforehand, or deployed during aerial combat as a swarm of miniature fighters.
Rocket Propelled Elerium Grenades: An infantry weapon that can fire RPG style projectiles at enemy vehicles or entrenchment. Increased power and armor piercing, due to the use of shaped charges and whatnot.
Psyker Sectoids: I'm not sure how XCOM psionics and whatnot work, but a unit with telekinesis, telepathy and whatnot would be nice. Exchange "Sectoids" with whatever dedicated species we come up with, assuming sectoids just don't have that capacity.
Anti Missile Shipboard Defense: An autoplasma turret that can turn and fire with enough speed and accuracy that intercepting missiles with plasma is possible. Also would work as anti infantry.
That's a good idea PJ, especially if our fighter proves itself insufficient against the XCOM jets this turn.
Post by: piratejoe on December 23, 2017, 08:20:25 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 23, 2017, 08:43:23 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 09:08:11 am
Quote
Sectoid Strengthening: DNA retrieved from the Earthlings we harvested in Nigeria has already proven its worth, as we find that splicing a few key genomes into Sectoid DNA results in improved strength and resilience, without adversely affecting other traits. As a result, our Sectoids can now carry greater loads, and endure more damage in a fight. Not massively so- we have not made discount Mutons here, but their performance should improve noticeably.Normal : 3 + 2 = 5 (Average)
Integrating human DNA into the main Sectoid clone strain turns out to be a relatively straightforward operation. The new sectoid strain is somewhat taller than the old one, and has a different muscle structure. This gives it a significant strength advantage over the original sectoid, roughly on par with a baseline human. Beyond that, the changes are minimal. Given it's obvious superiority, the new strain has superseded the old one.
Quote from: Missions Launched
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout, 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Japan
Night has fallen, and the operation has been nearly completed, when XCOM's response finally arrives. A few commands from the UFO later, and the light fighter breaks of from it's patrol route and moves to intercept. Soon, the enemy comes into view. Two interceptors, escorting 2 of their troop transports. Our light figher speeds towards them, firing an enormous barrage of plasma shots. The enemy scatters, only narrowly avoiding getting hit. One of the interceptors twists back around, firing it's missiles.
Two hits penetrate the hull, one passing through harmlessly, the other taking out the antigrav. Connection is lost when the tumbling fighter disappears into the Pacific.
The Skyrangers roar past overhead not long thereafter. There are twice as many here now as there were last time, and they conduct themselves with the same professionalism and determination. Soon enough, plasma bolts and burning debris light the battlefield, amidst the sounds of gunfire and explosions. Scout drones take advantage of the darkness to sneak up upon soldiers, but even so they rarely survive the endavour. The new sectoid mutation has gone a long way to reducing it's vulnerability in combat, and it still uses it's gift to great effect to spy and identify humans.
Still, they're being pushed back. The Scout drones are falling fast, and not all of them succeed in disabling humans before they're destroyed. And while our plasma pistols may be better than anything the enemies got, none of our forces are particularly armored. Even their relatively weak weapons are deadly. Following a fighting retreat, the remainder of the sectoid groups successfully gets into the UFO and prepares to take off. Explosives blast of the armored hull, without significant damage. Slowly, the UFO lifts off, only for 3 Avalanche missiles to strike it across the back and bring it down to the ground, killing all aboard.
Analysis
The Light Fighter, despite it's greater firepower, is no better against the XCOM interceptor than the Light UFO. Primary reason for this are it's equal speed and cost, and the fixed positioning of it's plasma guns. Given that even a single hit can down an interceptor, the extra guns are mostly unnecessary.
The scout drone suffers from a lack of armor and a short range. This ensures that most attacks are suicide attacks. However, it is a very effective people gatherer.
The Sectoid is an effective combat unit, though it's unarmored nature renders it vulnerable even to XCOM's primitive weaponry. It's psionic powers provide a powerful multiplier, while it's pistol is an effective and dangerous side arm.
All in all, the battle could have been won, but even in that case the UFO was likely to be shot down on take-off.
Quote
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Light fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Brazil
There's no resistance to our operation in Brazil, allowing our Sectoids and Scout drones free reign to capture as many humans as they require. The small scout returns with a hold full of humans, and several fully loaded Meld Containers.
Mission Success : Gain 1 UP Token, 1 DNA Token, + 1 Panic
Explanation : DNA Tokens can be used to grant during design and revision actions to provide a bonus to the strength of the roll, provided it is relevant. For example, the revision you just did would have greatly benefited from this.
Analysis
The light UFO is the primary restriction in the amount of resources gathered here.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
You have now entered the Design phase of Turn 3
Special Challenge: You have recieved 1 free design to make a new tactic.
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 09:15:48 am
Special Challenge: You have recieved 1 free design to make a new tactic.New tactic = new mission type?
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 09:21:02 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 09:24:46 am
YupSpecial Challenge: You have recieved 1 free design to make a new tactic.New tactic = new mission type?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 09:33:15 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 09:40:48 am
And yeah I suppose we can do air superiority provided there's no better ideas.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 09:51:29 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 10:10:59 am
Hmm, hmm. I suppose a defensive unit may be better for our regular design. But I'm definitely voting for Recruit Collaborators for our bonus design. I'm not sure Air Superiority will be very useful.Hmm, yeah I can see that. I'll join you in that vote.
Now for the design I envisioned, which is probably not the best, but it's both cool and a good bit more versatile than just making armor that we'd probably need to make a new version of for every new creature we design.
Design:
Armorer Crab
The Armorer Crab is, as the name implies, based on the DNA of earth crabs. Its purpose is simple, a living piece of armor. It has four long legs which it can use to wrap around other units and hold onto them, and its claws are thick and plate-like with sharp edges and great crushing power, and have a layer of alloy on the outside. Its main body is fairly flat, instead spreading its mass out horizontally and the top of its shell is also reinforced. This creature is designed to grab onto the back of one of our units(not just sectoids), and form into a sort of armored vest for them, and if the wearer dies before the crab does, it can latch onto another unit that lacks one.
I recommend we use the DNA point on it, but we don't have to
Quote from: votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [2] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 10:13:04 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 10:24:42 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 10:55:30 am
Scuttles: Pulled from the gene banks, patched up with the DNA of Earth crustaceans, Scuttles are here to provide mobile cover to our troops. This chitin-covered species has six crab-like legs, a lobster-like tail, and a sort-of-humanoid torso. Notable are their arms- one has a large plate of alloy-reinforced chitin on the end, forming a nigh-impenetrable shield. The other has a large claw, which can cut through some extremely solid objects. A plasma pistol has been mounted on the wrist of the claw-hand.
Scuttles are not especially fast, but their chitin provides natural armour, and their large shield makes them all but immune to conventional weapons fired from in front. Allies can take cover behind a Scuttle, using it as mobile cover. And whilst their offensive power is somewhat lacking, don't think them harmless- their wrist-mounted plasma pistol can still cause serious damage, and if you let one get close to you, one snap of its claw can cut right through flesh and bone.
Quote from: votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [1] - NUKE9.13
- Use DNA token [1] - NUKE9.13
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [2] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13
PS, for ebbor's benefit, here's the description of Recruit Collaborators:
Quote
Recruit Collaborators: Not all Earthlings are irrationally opposed to our efforts to bring them into the Great Plan. Many are, for various reasons, willing to cooperate. Some want wealth, their desire for the worthless metal they call "Gold" overwhelming xenophobia. Others want knowledge, and will work for us in exchange for meaningless secrets. Some simply want to be a part of something greater than themselves. Whatever their motivation, we can accomodate them.
We send a team of negotiators to contact susceptible individuals, establishing communications and providing whatever it is they desire. Subsequently, the converted Earthlings will serve us, providing information on their country's actions, offering assistance in further missions, and spreading our influence to make way for our eventual takeover.
Mechanically, the goal of this mission is to contact, negotiate with, and then ensure the safe and anonymous departure of our new allies. Should XCOM interfere, they should be either eliminated, or kept away from the negotiations long enough for them to conclude, and prevented from identifying our collaborators.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 24, 2017, 11:09:17 am
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [2] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Use DNA token [1] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [2] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Let's hope we can do this without scaring them away with our little gray men appearance.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 11:10:01 am
Quote from: Votes
Design:*fixed
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [2] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Use DNA token [2] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [3] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Hmm, the problem is that it doesn't really solve the issue of our troops being unarmored, it just gives them something to hide behind. A simple flanking maneuver can leave our troops just as vulnerable as before. That being said, I will give the crab actual claws.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 11:13:36 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 11:16:26 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 24, 2017, 11:24:10 am
By extending barrels and replacing single one with rotating block of six we have created long ranged cannon shooting continuous thin beam of scorching plasma.
dominator drone revision
Our engineers replaced weaponry of drone with explosive elerium core, super charged the thruster and programming was changed to charge hostile aircraft or missiles and trigger explosion upon certain proximity. Pathetic earthlings take pride in their missiles, now they shall see, HOW IT IS REALLY DONE
TLDR : drones turned into SWARM MISSILES for shooting pesky jets or missile interception.
Air superiority mission tactics design
Shooting down any civilian or military plane showing up in area should show earthlings, that resistance to us is futile, aswell as results of shooting down planes over populated areas should be catastrophic.
I suggest, that we should like really focus on winning skies, you can't infiltrate, when your shit is shot down.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 11:35:19 am
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 11:47:17 am
Fighter Algorithm Improvements: By making our light Fighters truly autonomous and not reliant on any nearby ship, we can deploy them anywhere on the earth without the need of a larger mothership to control them. This can also allow it to utilize its construction better and react thousands of times faster then any mere sectoid controller could ever hope. This will result in more agile fighters that can tell the difference between human aircraft and our UFO's, know how to engage and destroy human aircraft in an efficient manner, and of course, be able to dodge and get into the blind spots of enemy aircraft.Major Fighter Improvements: Our Light Fighter has proven to be inadequate to deal with the Humans own interceptor, and the fact that such primitives can do such damage is unacceptable. As such, we have decided to make plenty of improvements. To do this, we increase the speed and maneuverability of our craft as much as we possibly can, all the while replacing the control of the craft from a navigator in another UFO to the fighter itself, this can also allow it to utilize its construction better and react thousands of times faster then any mere sectoid controller could ever hope. All of this will result in more agile fighters that can tell the difference between human aircraft and our UFO's, know how to engage and destroy human aircraft in an efficient manner, and of course, be able to dodge and get into the blind spots of enemy aircraft. A side objective of this work, that is mostly only to be worked on if we have time left, is to armour the fighter a little bit better, not much as it needs to remain light, but enough that it will increase survivability slightly.
Air Superiority: This Mission is exactly what it says on the tin. Its simple air superiority designed to shoot down anything that enters the range of our UFF's, whether or not the targets are military or civilian does not matter to us. The goal of these missions is just simply take down anything Xcom sends at us and cause a bit of panic by destroying anything else the ships can see flying. Can also be useful to test out how the humans are doing with their air combat designs by pitching them against our own as we know they would attack, after all, they wouldn't want a passenger aircraft getting shot down and possibly hitting a city now, would they?
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [2] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Use DNA token [2] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [1] - Piratejoe
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [3] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Air Superiority [2] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe
Post by: crazyabe on December 24, 2017, 11:58:32 am
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Use DNA token [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [1] - Piratejoe
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [2] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 24, 2017, 12:28:00 pm
I do agree we need to improve air power, but firepower seems to be the wrong way. Our shots can kill them just fine, the problem is in dodging and hitting, that's why the plan is for the fighter algorithm improvement for our revision.
One of our problems is missiles having better range.
Also revision of fighter should definitely involve moving guns from fixed mounts to rotating turrets on top and below craft for 360 coverage
Post by: ~Neri on December 24, 2017, 12:33:23 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design:Frankly air superiority is the king here. If we have air superiority, they can't engage us on the ground, they can't loot our shit, they can't disrupt our missions. They can't do jack shit. We can deal with the ground after we take the sky.
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Use DNA token [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [2] - Piratejoe, Kevak
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [3] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 12:46:18 pm
That will effect aerodynamics, which we still have to deal with even as aliens with super tech. Its not a bad idea to use turrets for a heavy fighter but for now we probably should work on making it as fast and agile as possible along with having the piloting system work as well as it can. I have a few ideas for a heavy fighter and a bomber of sorts too. I should mention however, that fighters will always be useful, even when we get to the point of having cruisers and battleships flying in the earths atmosphere, as they can help shoot down their interceptors even then.I do agree we need to improve air power, but firepower seems to be the wrong way. Our shots can kill them just fine, the problem is in dodging and hitting, that's why the plan is for the fighter algorithm improvement for our revision.
One of our problems is missiles having better range.
Also revision of fighter should definitely involve moving guns from fixed mounts to rotating turrets on top and below craft for 360 coverage
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 12:51:35 pm
Just to be clear, do you want a crab that comes with a "free" Plasma pistol, or one that can use a plasma pistol?One that can use a plasma pistol. I mean, plasma pistols are free anyway, right?
That being said, I'm assuming that we can figure out how to rig a plasma pistol to a crab wrist without needing a separate revision. However, I might be wrong, in which case, scrap the pistol.
The fighter improvements are good, and doing them as a design will make them easier... but designs are precious, and even though they might not be equally effective as a revision, they would still be enough to make it more than a match for XCOM's interceptors.
The Air Superiority mission... won't win us any rewards, other than maybe some Panic. And we don't need a mission type for fighters to protect other ships, they already do that. And being on a mission isn't going to make our ships better fighters (I think). It seems to me like you're just removing any chance of getting a substantial reward for no benefit.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 24, 2017, 12:58:56 pm
Quote from: VotesDesign:Frankly air superiority is the king here. If we have air superiority, they can't engage us on the ground, they can't loot our shit, they can't disrupt our missions. They can't do jack shit. We can deal with the ground after we take the sky.
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Use DNA token [3] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [3] - Piratejoe, Kevak,
Sprinkhuled cherioot
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [3] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 01:01:55 pm
Just to be clear, do you want a crab that comes with a "free" Plasma pistol, or one that can use a plasma pistol?One that can use a plasma pistol. I mean, plasma pistols are free anyway, right?
Heh, whoops...
I managed to forget that.
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 01:02:27 pm
The Reason we should do fighter improvements now is, as Kevak said, because Air superiority is king, and I'm sure Xcom knows this. Considering they got some of our tech, alloys and so on, I would honestly be surprised if they didn't make a new fighter this turn just to make our own practically useless, or at the very least upgrade their craft in some way or another. And if they don't you ask? Then they have a bit more of catching up to do to be a mach for our fighters.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 24, 2017, 01:28:32 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [2] - Piratejoe, Kevak
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 01:34:47 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design:Fixed that for you, although, I don't really see the scuttles useful, as a single grenade behind it will get past the most important part of its armour and probably turn it from mobile cover to stationary.
Armorer Crab [1] - Failbird105
- Use DNA token [1] - Failbird105
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [3] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 01:35:55 pm
The thing about pulling resources away from XCOM's main efforts is that we're pulling an equal amount of resources away from our main efforts. Every VP spent on an Air Superiority mission is one not spent harvesting or whatever.
As for using the mission to see who has the better fighter... firstly, I don't see why we can't get that data on normal missions (see for example the most recent update, where we got some aerial combat that let us know our new fighter is mediocre), secondly, even if that was somewhat the case, is it really worth spending a design over?
So, yes, I want to improve our fighter. However, I think a revision will be enough.
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 01:39:02 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 01:46:07 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 01:51:01 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 01:53:17 pm
As for the whole fighter improvement design thing, I agree that it's important, but I feel like the general fighter improvement would work best as a revision and feel the need to ask: what do you want to revise if that design goes through?
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 01:54:43 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 02:06:55 pm
Please, do tell me why the Scuttles which could probably be easily taken out with a well placed grenade and is slow will help us much when we have cover already in battles as we are the ones who keep blasting through cover, not Xcom.The Scuttle will provide better, mobile cover, as well as serving as a combatant in its own right.
All our troops can be taken out by a well-placed grenade. They'd have to be extra-well placed to take out an armoured Scuttle, though.
That being said, I'm not married to the Scuttle. We could do something else. I think we need a ground combatant of some kind, though. We have the DNA credit, and 2 UP credits, so it's a good use of resources. And Sectoids aren't quite cutting it as tanks.
My problem with the Armourer Crab is that it doesn't add any offensive power to the board, whilst still taking up the space of a unit. Sure, we get armoured Sectoids. But those armoured Sectoids are gonna be all alone. Whereas Scuttles would be like armoured Sectoids that take up half the space on a ship.
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 02:13:31 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 02:31:56 pm
One problem with an armour revision, though- it'd cost EP, which we are criminally short on. Although, I suppose if plasma pistols are free, simple armour could also be...
ebbor- could you tell us if 'free' equipment other than basic plasma pistols is possible?
Also, if we do the fighter design. Could we armour it a little? Not a lot, since too much would reduce its agility, but even just basic armour could drastically increase its chance of surviving a missile strike. That'd make the feature list, in order of priority:
-Significantly faster and more agile propulsion system
-AI pilot
-Light armour
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 02:44:11 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 24, 2017, 03:04:04 pm
As in bio soup in a robotic alien shell to do genetics and drone together. Like a Proto codex.
Because in game aliens were not into armor aside the mutons. Most the alien answer was genetic engineer tougher aliens.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 03:07:07 pm
ebbor- could you tell us if 'free' equipment other than basic plasma pistols is possible?It's possible, but unlikely for fancy stuff.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 03:10:59 pm
I think we need to get our ufos to be better as they keep shooting us down. As for new alien, we could do a biodroid?That seems like most things you can make fitting that concept could be done better and easier by focusing directly on one or the other.
As in bio soup in a robotic alien shell to do genetics and drone together. Like a Proto codex.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 24, 2017, 03:12:27 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 03:24:01 pm
Also it leaves our DNA token and two UP tokens unused, which just doesn't sit right with me.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 03:27:12 pm
Simple Body Armour: Essentially just plates of Alloy that can be strapped over vulnerable areas. Does not provide anything close to total protection, but does offer a cheap, lightweight means of shielding vital organs from bullets.
I reckon that could be Cheap. In which case I guess I could be convinced to vote for designed fighter upgrades. Though as Failbird says, I don't like not using our DNA token.
But I will again stress that, even if we must do it, now is not the time for Air Superiority missions. We need all our VP to escort and deliver troops. Vote for Recruit Collaborators, or suggest some other mission that we can use now or in the near future.
Post by: piratejoe on December 24, 2017, 03:54:51 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 03:58:14 pm
Here's an idea. Why not make Floaters next turn and use the DNA token on them? They are part machine, so they would have some natural armour with em along with everything else...Just a thought.I'm not really sure the DNA token would work on making floaters, they're much more machine than meat after all. It's a similar problem to the biodroid idea, it feels like trying to force a DNA token to work on a robot.
That and our drones are ALL metal and they hardly fare better than the sectoids.
Quote from: Votes
Design:sigh
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [4] - NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [4] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
I suppose I'll vote for fighters, I really don't see scuttles being all that useful, at least not while we are the biggest risk to cover.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 04:12:51 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design:Eh, alright. But we really should create a new species next turn.
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [5] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, NUKE9.13
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
Again, though, I'm gonna point out that Air Superiority is not worth it if it comes at the cost of our ground presence. We aren't going to win the war by shooting down passenger planes, we need boots on the ground.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 04:19:53 pm
Ebbor you still haven't answered if we know if the mind merge is actually properly working. I ask because it doesn't seem like you've mentioned it at all outside of the tertiary function that you granted it when we rolled so well.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 04:30:29 pm
Quote
Ebbor you still haven't answered if we know if the mind merge is actually properly working. I ask because it doesn't seem like you've mentioned it at all outside of the tertiary function that you granted it when we rolled so well.
The disruption/confusion thing works yes, but I haven't been able to put it in the narrative well, or at all.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 04:32:17 pm
And the feedback? Or did you find that unbalanced?QuoteEbbor you still haven't answered if we know if the mind merge is actually properly working. I ask because it doesn't seem like you've mentioned it at all outside of the tertiary function that you granted it when we rolled so well.
The disruption/confusion thing works yes, but I haven't been able to put it in the narrative well, or at all.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 24, 2017, 04:57:36 pm
Quote from: VotesDesign:Eh, alright. But we really should create a new species next turn.
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [5] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, NUKE9.13
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [4] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
Again, though, I'm gonna point out that Air Superiority is not worth it if it comes at the cost of our ground presence. We aren't going to win the war by shooting down passenger planes, we need boots on the ground.
Aerial superiority paves the road for proper infiltrations, bases and, well, just glassing cities from above or shooting down satellites to turn off phones, navigation, internet and other stuff on world scale.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 24, 2017, 05:02:14 pm
Intimidator
Intimidators are a species of tall, tough humanoids of average intelligence covered in an exoskeleton of tough, impact resistant chitin. They have enhanced agility and dexterity, and are stronger than an athletic man and his athletic friend working together. They have a set of insectoid wings as well, but they are unsuited for flight. Instead, the wings are coated with an intoxicating (to humans) dust, which can be scattered or blasted when the Intimidator flaps their wings. When the toxin is ingested, or it makes contact with the skin, the human will begin to experience terrible visions and intense, irrational fear. They may even lash out in self defense, unknowingly attacking their comrades.
Use the DNA Token!
This gives us an armored ground fighter, that will properly take advantage of our UP reserves, and the dust will give us a nice little X factor and give them something to waste a design on. They could tank bullets with their chitin (but I doubt The Enemy will stay with conventional firearms very much longer) and effectively function on a variety of missions. I debated giving them four arms, but perhaps that's a bit much :P
For our strategy, I definitely think Recruit Collaborators is the better choice, given it can both cause panic (aaaaaahhhh the aliens are among us ahhhhh) and give rewards in a variety of forms. Air Superiority should wait until we have a Big Good Fighter and can go without the rewards.
And as for the revision, most everyone is agreement that we should upgrade the fighter, yeah.
Light Fighter Mk 2
First things first, we upsize the Elerium core to increase speed and range. To accommodate this, one of the Plasma Cannons has been removed. Two is already enough. Two micro maneuverability thrusters are added the engine array, to allow for Higher Power maneuvers. The two remaining twin Plasma Cannons can now fire shorter, lower powered bursts at a higher fire rate, to allow the strafing of ground targets and a more unavoidable barrage. And the crafts armor is reinforced by a dense layer of Alien Alloy, but not enough to offset the bonus it's more powerful engine provides.
Perhaps that's too ambitious for a revision, but we need it to Work.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 24, 2017, 05:09:42 pm
Aerial superiority paves the road for proper infiltrations, bases and, well, just glassing cities from above or shooting down satellites to turn off phones, navigation, internet and other stuff on world scale.But the Air Superiority mission doesn't actually do any of those things. It just sends ships to fly around and hope they run into an Interceptor.
I don't see how the Air Superiority mission will help with infiltrations and bases. It's not like we can afford to cover the entire planet and prevent XCOM from flying anywhere, we just don't have the VP. Infiltrations and bases will be aided by escorts, which do not need a separate mission.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 24, 2017, 05:12:43 pm
And the feedback? Or did you find that unbalanced?Limited, if at all. A 1:1 guaranteed kill effect would be OP.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 05:18:03 pm
yeah, I get ya. It was nice to hope though.And the feedback? Or did you find that unbalanced?Limited, if at all. A 1:1 guaranteed kill effect would be OP.
Aerial superiority paves the road for proper infiltrations,Not seeing that, in fact I think Recruit Collaborators is actually far better for this because it gives us an in with human society
Quote
baseskinda seeing this, but Recruit would once again likely be more beneficial, or atleast equal in this category, by providing some amount of resources and potentially some amount of safe space to work with.
Quote
and, well, just glassing cities from aboveI can kinda see this one, but I don't really think it can get much easier to say "shoot at everything down there" than it already is. I could see making precise strikes against specific land targets though, which would be fairly useful.
Quote
or shooting down satellites to turn off phones, navigation, internet and other stuff on world scale.I can sorta see this one as well, but admittedly, we're already deploying from space, we would probably have a better time doing that anyway even without this.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 24, 2017, 06:19:05 pm
Quote
Slenderion:
Reptillian yet slim in nature the Slenders provide a role as a main infantry unit with a quite decent amount of ability to coordinate other troops in the battlefield. They are 7-8 ft muscular, exoskeleton, reptilian species that can withstand a lot of damage through their natural armor and raw willpower. They are ferocious yet cunning in the way they fight, they are savage enough their thick claws and jaws to rip open their opponent's during combat only to serve to make them fear this being more. One of the main strength of this creature is of its ability to strategize and have a useful ability to think within the battlefields. Whether they have to coordinate with other species like a Sectoid to perform a flanking maneuver, or perform effective forms of strategy and thought of countering human's tactics from their own flanking to suppressing fire, the Slenders are imprinted with mental DNA of all known forms of infantry-squad engagements that make them really effective when working as a individual team, and they can even work together within their own species for more devastating results. Their willpower is also uncanny, while also lesser aliens without sapience will stop functioning the moments their organs give way, the Slenders are imprinted with cause and dedication to the Ethereal's Great Plan, and will fight to the moment of brink annihilation. They never give in and would rather die no matter what, perfect against enemy interrogations.
Biologically, these being looked like a weird hybrid between reptiles and insects, with both having the reptilian facial features you would expect yet having a imposing mantis-like mouth that they utilize to devour their prey and weird compound eyes from the earth-like mantises as well. They are imposing yet agile creature being 7-8 ft imposing creatures, yet their is a sense of slenderness and finesse in their movements.
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Use DNA token [3] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Puppyguard
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [5] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, NUKE9.13
Slenderions
- Use DNA Token [1] Shadowclaw
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [5] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Shadowclaw
Air Superiority [4] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak, Puppyguard
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 06:21:56 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 24, 2017, 06:32:27 pm
Edit: Apparently, So.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 24, 2017, 06:34:22 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design:
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [2] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Use DNA token [2] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [6] - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, NUKE9.13, Puppyguard
Slenderions
- Use DNA Token [1] Shadowclaw
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [6] - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard
Air Superiority [3] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 24, 2017, 06:39:43 pm
Quote from: VotesDesign:
Armorer Crab [] -
- Use DNA token [] -
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Scuttles [2] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Use DNA token [2] - SamSpeeds, Crazyabe
- Don't use DNA token [] -
Major Fighter Improvements [7) - Piratejoe, Kevak, sprinkled chariot, Failbird105, NUKE9.13, Puppy guard tyrant Leviathan
Slenderions
- Use DNA Token [1] Shadowclaw
Bonus Design:
Recruit Collaborators [7) - Failbird105, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Crazyabe, Shadowclaw, Puppy-guard tyrant leviathan
Air Superiority [3] - Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe, Kevak
Post by: Failbird105 on December 24, 2017, 07:14:30 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 24, 2017, 07:17:07 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 24, 2017, 08:13:49 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 24, 2017, 08:55:51 pm
Anyways for a Revision; create a Plasma Carbine than... seems reasonable
@10ebbor10 How does the Scout Drone move? I explicitly said it was hovering like 1ft off the air since it's based on this (http://ufopaedia.org/index.php/Drone_(EU2012)) from xcom? It seems like it moved with legs or treads in the description? I understand that it doesn't really fly, just more like hovering
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 04:00:17 am
Quote
@10ebbor10 How does the Scout Drone move? I explicitly said it was hovering like 1ft off the air since it's based on this from xcom? It seems like it moved with legs or treads in the description? I understand that it doesn't really fly, just more like hovering
It scoots around on it's hover system. It can even fly quite high. It doesn't do that often, because if it did that it would be skeet. Hence, it's hides and uses fairly limited size and relatively high speed to ambush people.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 04:04:31 am
We are more than capable of killing them with our pistols, but what we can't do is hold up to their weapons. I think trying to get really cheap armor into our free equipment list is going to be more useful than making a bigger gun that will take equipment points away from what we could be spending on meld and drones.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 04:06:48 am
Also it seems we are very much inclined to go for better armor, however we have 2 UP tokens at our discretion, and utilizing them for Sectoids (Gen. 1) and Scout Drones seem ill-advised; better for a more sophisticated unit we will inevitable create next turn with the DNA token
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 04:23:38 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 05:31:03 am
Quote
@10ebbor10 For thematic reasons alone, how long is each turn? From the description and such I believe it's either 2 weeks or a month... but a month means each turn is kinda over-exaggerated? It means we actually do very little for the time we're given, so it makes sense in my head that each turn takes 2 weeks. Also base Xcom 2012 did have two abduction choices out of three spots (so the aliens tried harvest on 6 sites each month) you had to choose per turn, as I remember
It's deliberatly kept vague for that exact reason, but 2 weeks to a month-ish makes sense.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 05:51:44 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 05:55:56 am
So ebbor I wanted to ask, what kind of things would be relevant to the DNA point? Like, would NuCom floaters be able to use it even though they're very heavily cybernetic?
Depends on the justification and fluff you attach to it.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 06:15:50 am
Depends on the justification and fluff you attach to it.So I'm assuming that a DNA token is meant to represent patching in Earth DNA to change things?
Would you be willing to say how much benefit the current creature designs would get out of using it, or do you want us to find out by making them?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 06:37:24 am
How much benefit depends entirely on what you want to do. But, if you want an example, just compare the nuCom 1 and 2 Sectoids.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 08:47:11 am
Masked Reaver
Tall slender creatures, partway between mantis and various reptilian species. The Reavers are 7 feet tall and athletically built for something with its size, with a dark grey-blue exoskeleton. They use this in combination with their raw willpower to survive great amounts of damage. They fight with a terrible cunning, using their bladed forearms and sharp mandibles to rip their enemies apart should they find themselves in close quarters, and they show brutal practicality to demoralize and break foes. Their main strength, however, is intelligence. Reavers are implanted with genetic memory of various tactics and strategies, and can use this to plan around our enemies actions and lead our troops. However, they lack any propensity for the Gift.
Physically they are, as stated, a hybrid of mantids and various reptilian species. They have well built legs based on a recreation of ancient Earth reptilians, ending in iguana-like feet, good for climbing and traversing rough terrain. Their arms are similarly well built, but on the underside of their forearms they possess the blades of a mantis. Rather than the third limb segment possessed by most mantids for gripping, the Reavers have three-fingered hands with an opposable thumb, for wielding guns. Their torso is mostly reptilian, and they have a large mantis abdomen coming off where the tail would be, situated at an angle where it touches the ground when they stand straight, but comes out straight back when they are in their forward leaning fighting posture. Their head is a hybrid between mantis and serpent, with the mantid eyes and mandibles, but a serpent structure. It's covered by a layer of bone like a mask, hence their name, which unhinges, opening along a center line, shedding away their elegant and oddly beautiful facade to reveal the frightening truth.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 11:15:08 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 11:41:06 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 03:21:37 pm
As for mantids, I wonder if our first terror unit should be based off a mantis? Imagine the horror when you got a bunch of giant flying mantises charging at civilians and humans that are immune to bullet fire and could horribly maim the humans or even give it the infection ability of the chrysalids or Flood-style unit
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 03:39:13 pm
As for our first terror unit, honestly I think there's very little more terrifying than seeing your own kind warped into monsters. Though something like a big fleshy blob monster that just straight up eats people would be great as well.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 04:10:16 pm
Quote
Major Fighter Improvements: Our Light Fighter has proven to be inadequate to deal with the Humans own interceptor, and the fact that such primitives can do such damage is unacceptable. As such, we have decided to make plenty of improvements. To do this, we increase the speed and maneuverability of our craft as much as we possibly can, all the while replacing the control of the craft from a navigator in another UFO to the fighter itself, this can also allow it to utilize its construction better and react thousands of times faster then any mere sectoid controller could ever hope. All of this will result in more agile fighters that can tell the difference between human aircraft and our UFO's, know how to engage and destroy human aircraft in an efficient manner, and of course, be able to dodge and get into the blind spots of enemy aircraft. A side objective of this work, that is mostly only to be worked on if we have time left, is to armour the fighter a little bit better, not much as it needs to remain light, but enough that it will increase survivability slightly.Normal : 2 + 3 : Average
Unsatisfied with previous work, the fighter pattern is revised completely. To satisfy a demand for greater speed and maneuverability, the new fighter is equipped with an anti-grav significantly larger and more powerful than the old design. Navigation computers have been greatly increased in size and complexity to give the vessel a true autonomy, making it a powerful hunter in the skies. To power this all, the reactor has been enlarged significantly, with a little spare capacity used to thicken the alloy armor over the most vulnerable areas.
The result is a reasonably effective fighter. Simulation indicate that it should be capable of dealing with every plane currently fielded with XCOM, while mock fights against our own ships suggest it could easily win against 2 or even 3 fighters at once without a scratch(if it is hit however, the light scouts powerful armament does usually result in significant enough damage to cause an eventual loss).
Unfortunately, the additional power and capacity result in an unavoidable increase in cost.
Quote
Recruit Collaborators: Not all Earthlings are irrationally opposed to our efforts to bring them into the Great Plan. Many are, for various reasons, willing to cooperate. Some want wealth, their desire for the worthless metal they call "Gold" overwhelming xenophobia. Others want knowledge, and will work for us in exchange for meaningless secrets. Some simply want to be a part of something greater than themselves. Whatever their motivation, we can accomodate them.Normal : 4 + 3 (Superior craftmanship)
We send a team of negotiators to contact susceptible individuals, establishing communications and providing whatever it is they desire. Subsequently, the converted Earthlings will serve us, providing information on their country's actions, offering assistance in further missions, and spreading our influence to make way for our eventual takeover.
Mechanically, the goal of this mission is to contact, negotiate with, and then ensure the safe and anonymous departure of our new allies. Should XCOM interfere, they should be either eliminated, or kept away from the negotiations long enough for them to conclude, and prevented from identifying our collaborators.
With gifts of wealth, knowledge or through the sheer power of the Truth, we should be able to make humanity see the light. Their help will go a long way to making the rest of humanity recognize our superiority, allowing us to help them exploit the Gift. Thanks to XCOM and humanities outmoded ideals, they can no do this in the open, they'll have to act from the shadows. As such, we aim to create a heavily compartmentalized high level infiltration of human society, secured against eventual losses or even partial discovery.
The general focus of this strategy is therefore on subterfuge and stealth. Units are covertly inserted near target locations, and make their way then to the collaborators. There, they will negotiate, delivering the required goods as needed and agreed up. Extraction via UFO follows later. If attacked, the primary focus is to obfuscate the purpose of the meeting, keeping XCOM busy while allowing collaborators to escape.
This strategy relies primarily on subterfuges. Species that can infiltrate society, and small, high speed UFO's are therefore best suited.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
ALIENS INVADE: PHASE 3
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 04:19:44 pm
Anyway, the way the results for RC are worded suggests to me that the unit we create next turn should, amongst other things, be suited for infiltration. I like the Masked Reavers for the idea of a unit with a mask concealing a horrible alien face. They could be modelled after the classic tragedy/comedy theatre masks. Then we just cram 'em in a suit, and from a distance, it's just a regular dude wearing a mask for some reason. In combat, they reveal their true face, tear off the suit, and lay into folks.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 04:26:41 pm
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators
Crafts: 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter
Unit Loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols)
1 Scout Drone
Destination: France
Mission Type: Harvest:
Crafts: 1 Small Scout
Unit Loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld Containers, Elerium Grenades)
Destination: Japan
@10ebbor10, I assume the Medium Fighter requires 1 extra VP compared to the previous Fighter?
We need to hit Japan again because they wouldn't expect us to repeat a attack on a area that we previously failed on, and France has a lot of diplomatic activity in the real world so it's a great place to start our infiltration >:-)
I was thinking of giving the other Scout to Japan some elerium grenades and no Meld Containers for the Recruit Collaborators mission, since I believe the Meld would have no effect with the Recruit Collaborator? Or am I wrong?
Edited
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 04:29:37 pm
Hmm. Unfortunate that it costs more. How much more, exactly? I'm guessing 2VP, but it doesn't actually say?Hmm, it would require quite a bit of revision to the design. The main thing is reducing the abdomen, which pains me to do. We also would be best off giving them vocal chords.
Anyway, the way the results for RC are worded suggests to me that the unit we create next turn should, amongst other things, be suited for infiltration. I like the Masked Reavers for the idea of a unit with a mask concealing a horrible alien face. They could be modelled after the classic tragedy/comedy theatre masks. Then we just cram 'em in a suit, and from a distance, it's just a regular dude wearing a mask for some reason. In combat, they reveal their true face, tear off the suit, and lay into folks.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 04:31:52 pm
I was thinking of giving the other Scout to Japan some elerium grenades and no Meld Containers for the Recruit Collaborators mission, since I believe the Meld would have no effect with the Recruit Collaborator? Or am I wrong?Yeah, I don't think Meld will help on a Recruit mission. Give the Japan flight the grenades.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 04:37:43 pm
Hmm. Unfortunate that it costs more. How much more, exactly? I'm guessing 2VP, but it doesn't actually say?
2VP.
Well, you could give it to people, but who'd want it?I was thinking of giving the other Scout to Japan some elerium grenades and no Meld Containers for the Recruit Collaborators mission, since I believe the Meld would have no effect with the Recruit Collaborator? Or am I wrong?Yeah, I don't think Meld will help on a Recruit mission. Give the Japan flight the grenades.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 04:41:45 pm
Also, Shadowclaw, there's an extra EP left, I recommend you use it to send a set of drones with the Harvesting group as well
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 04:45:00 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 04:47:07 pm
Although...
What if instead of revising armour, we gave the Small Scout basic stealth? And then send the Medium Fighter to escort the Harvest mission (which we would redirect to Egypt to increase the chances of XCOM going after it), and send a lone Scout on the Recruit mission?
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 25, 2017, 04:55:23 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 04:57:05 pm
Basic Craft Obfuscation: A combination of small changes to hull shape, and the use of certain materials, makes the Small Scout a lot harder to detect using conventional means. The goal here is not complete invisibility, but rather a reduced chance of detection. We hope to be able to apply this to all our Small Scouts with no significant increase in cost.
Combined with a plan like this:
Quote from: Plan Sneakin into Canada
Quote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (3VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: EgyptQuote from: Mission 2Mission Type: Recruit CollaboratorsTotal Cost: 4VP, 4UP, 2EP
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Elerium Grenade) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Canada
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 05:05:43 pm
So a revision like this:But wouldn't the fighter completely nullify our stealth advantage if the scout is the only stealthy one? If we did that then they could learn about the new fighter, the new mission, AND the new stealth all in one action, and they still learn about the fighter and stealth even if they DO get shot down!
Basic Craft Obfuscation: A combination of small changes to hull shape, and the use of certain materials, makes the Small Scout a lot harder to detect using conventional means. The goal here is not complete invisibility, but rather a reduced chance of detection. We hope to be able to apply this to all our Small Scouts with no significant increase in cost.
Combined with a plan like this:Quote from: Plan Sneakin into CanadaQuote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (3VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: EgyptQuote from: Mission 2Mission Type: Recruit CollaboratorsTotal Cost: 4VP, 4UP, 2EP
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Elerium Grenade) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Canada
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 25, 2017, 05:11:46 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 05:16:40 pm
But wouldn't the fighter completely nullify our stealth advantage if the scout is the only stealthy one? If we did that then they could learn about the new fighter, the new mission, AND the new stealth all in one action, and they still learn about the fighter and stealth even if they DO get shot down!Which is why my plan does not involve sending a fighter on the Recruit mission.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 05:17:56 pm
Basically it means if we want a advantage this turn, it has to a revision to our units; otherwise the revision will only useful in the following turns.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 05:20:23 pm
ebbor, could you confirm this?
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 05:21:12 pm
Personally I do still think we need a revision to get armor, because upgrading a units durability first is wasting a revision, since it ONLY benefits that unit, any further ones we make will not get that advantage.
Post by: Ardent Debater on December 25, 2017, 05:34:39 pm
I'm of the opinion we shouldn't attempt a conversion mission until we've created a dedicated stealth cruiser and infiltration species like the Thin Men, otherwise the odds of them discovering our efforts is much too high. Instead, we should use our turn's revision to revise the scout drone design, making them slightly larger to add the capacity to shoot a plasma pistol in ground combat, instead of melee suicide attacks, which should exponentially increase their effectiveness.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 05:39:39 pm
Personally I do still think we need a revision to get armor, because upgrading a units durability first is wasting a revision, since it ONLY benefits that unit, any further ones we make will not get that advantage.I mean, we could apply it to all our ships, I suppose.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 05:40:54 pm
What makes you think that a revision cannot be applied to ships as well as units after we've planned the missions? I think that so long as it doesn't affect the cost, we should be able to apply the upgrades.
ebbor, could you confirm this?
XCOM's interception phase runs concurrent with your revision phase. That means that what ships they spot is already decided before your revision is rolled.
So far XCOM has successfully detected at least 3/4 of our attacks so far (they might've just ignored the last one, who knows). I'm pretty sure at this point that they've set up some Big Radar or something that covers most of/all of the earth. I doubt it would matter if we sent less craft per mission, they'll find out anyway. So (presuming I'm correct about their detection abilities), it would be safer to send more craft with important missions, because the Scout would be better protected. Also Stealth Tech is a good idea and probably necessary.
The odds are significantly in favor of being spotted, because just sneaking by without effort on your side is boring. However, spotting doesn't just determine interception, it also determines when the vessel is intercepted. There's descent odds of it occuring only after the mission is complete.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 05:52:11 pm
I say we go for making the stealth system revision in that case, and not run a recruitment mission until next turn.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 05:56:15 pm
Hmm. Yeah, in that case, we should hold off on Recruit missions till we have some stealth tech.
New plan, then:
Quote from: Plan Let's All Go To Brazil
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 2 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 1xMeld container, 1xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Scout Drone (2UP)
Destination: Brazil
It was mentioned that we were short on space in the Small Scout, so sending two isn't a waste.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 06:01:05 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 06:13:17 pm
Quote
Plan: Screw people who like Niles and Robots
Mission Type: Harvest
Crafts(s): 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter 3VP
Unit Loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld Containers) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drones (1UP)
Destination: Egypt
Mission Type: Harvest
Crafts(s): 1 Small Scout (1 VP)
Unit Loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Elerium Grenades) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drones (1UP)
Destination: Japan
(Cost: 4 VP, 4 UP, 2 EP)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 06:20:38 pm
We don't have four UP, but I can tell you meant for one of the drones to use EP.You're absolutely right that we don't have four UP.
We have six.
Anyway, votes?
Quote from: Votes
Strategy
Let's All Go To Egypt: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 06:30:34 pm
yeah no fucking clue how I forgot that.We don't have four UP, but I can tell you meant for one of the drones to use EP.You're absolutely right that we don't have four UP.
We have six.
Anyway, votes?
Quote from: Votes
Strategy
Let's All Go To Egypt: (2) NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Post by: Puppyguard on December 25, 2017, 06:36:28 pm
Quote from: Votes
StrategyIf we send a scout alone it's a suicide mission, they will have interceptors able to deal with a lone one.
NUKE's 'Let's All Go To Egypt': (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard
Shadowclaw's 'Screw people who like Niles and Robots': (1) Shadowclaw777
Even if it did land it'd still get wiped out as soon as it took off.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 25, 2017, 07:02:52 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 25, 2017, 07:06:08 pm
Something occurred to me, ebbor: is one Meld Container enough to cover an entire mission? ie, are multiples redundant?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 25, 2017, 07:16:57 pm
Quote
The results for the Medium Fighter outright say it can take on 3 Interceptors at a time.
I see, that'a bit unclear. Against your own light fighters, it can take on 3 at once.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 07:29:11 pm
Design:
So you know the mimic octopus, that Earth cephalopod which alters its color, texture, and posture to replicate other Earth sea creatures? Well the Hugh-Manns(name subject to change) are those, but altered and improved for our purposes. Physically its a mimic octopus scaled up greatly, with an extra set of eyes on its head that match the position of human eyes when it is disguised, its tentacles all split into 3 smaller tentacles a few inches from the tip allowing it to form a facsimile of fingers, but they don't look convincing without gloves, it braids two tentacles around eachother to form each individual limb, so they don't look convincing when not covered either. It has several more key differences from the norm of mimic octopi.
First, it is somewhat more intelligent, equal to sectoids in general intelligence, but with extra enhancements dedicated to social interaction and language, it still struggles to manage "slang" however. Second, its changes are FAR more precise, it can pretty much perfectly mimic human skin and hair colors in addition to the normal ability to mimic the color of the ground around it, and can use its changes to replicate a human face quite accurately, though not as accurately as it can replicate an inanimate object, leaving it somewhat in the "uncanny valley" as humans call it, main problem is it can only do one expression at a time, bigger changes like for talking or going from open smile to large frown are beyond it, but the smaller, subtler ones are within its capacity. Third, it has vocal chords, and can speak relatively well, albeit rather monotone.
Its physical strength is above human levels, however its lack of bones make carrying heavy objects very hard(hauling along the ground works though). It can hold objects and is capable of precise manipulation on the level of any human.
In combat meanwhile, it can shed its disguise(basically just slipping out of its clothes), in such a state, it is effectively a giant mimic octopus with guns, it can technically hold and wield a gun with each tentacle, but needs to use two at a time to keep them steady for aiming and three at once to stop recoil, it can use its unarmed tentacles both for climbing with its suction cups and for using them to grab enemies in a tight grip and rip their weapons from their hands, and its camouflage lets it blend in effortlessly with the color and texture of its surroundings.
Typically wears a generic black suit outfit, and are equipped with a plasma pistol in addition to their primary weapon(even if said weapon is a plasma pistol)
Post by: piratejoe on December 25, 2017, 07:33:14 pm
Quote from: Plan Portugal, AKA Panic Conga line, AKA Fuck brazil in particular.
They wouldn't expect it a second time!Quote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (3VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Meld container) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: BrazilQuote from: Mission 2Mission Type: Recruit CollaboratorsTotal Cost: 4VP, 4UP, 2EP
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Pistols, Elerium Grenade) (1UP, 1EP)
1 Scout Drone (1UP)
Destination: Brazil
We probably should figure out a way to up our VP again. Seeing how medium fighters cost an arm and a leg.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 07:44:53 pm
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 25, 2017, 07:53:15 pm
Also:
Vehicle Fabrication Facilities
A state of the art complex devoted to the creation and deployment of UFO's and other tech. Utilizing our powerful nanomachines and mastery of mechanics, we can easily and quickly craft delicate materials with the precision only known to microscopic builders assembling microscopic particles, and mass assemble ship hulls with complex, efficient, and versatile machinery.
Alternatively, we could just do "Fabrication Facilities" and potentially gain EP as well.
Post by: piratejoe on December 25, 2017, 08:01:22 pm
I also support more Vehicle fabrication facilities.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 08:14:48 pm
Seems cool enough, but why have access to Actual Human DNA and cloning technology. I don't see why we wouldn't just clone a human and modify THAT, if you don't also want enhanced strength or something. I guess being a shapeshifting octopus would given them increased escape and espionage abilities?Well I mean, yeah, it might even be a trivial design, but it feels almost like cheating to just make our own humans.
That and it has all the capabilities of an octopus still, and it also provides a good gateway to other things, such as tentacles, natural camouflage, and boneless creatures.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 25, 2017, 08:24:53 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 25, 2017, 08:35:49 pm
Also, imagine just how useful a giant, intelligent mimic octopus with a plasma pistol can be in combat. You thought that was a wall? NO IT WAS AN ALIEN! You though you were walking on a floor? NOW YOU MUST FACE TENTACLES!
Where do you even shoot? The round bits? The flat bits? The tentacles, which ones? The ones holding its guns? The ones holding your guns? The ones holding you?
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 25, 2017, 08:41:47 pm
Here's an idea:
The Ungenk - EMP/Battle Coordination Creature
A spiderlike creature with a Massive Cranium. It has ten limbs, two being spindly arms rather than insectoid legs. It can grasp and hold a Plasma Pistol, but that's not it's purpose. It's purpose is advanced battlefield strategy, telepathic coordination, and the emitation of electromagnetic pulses to disable enemy technology and local electronics (so we can sneak around in the complete dark). The pulse is generated in the abdomen, and can be emited in a bubble like pulse, or directed in a half hemisphere through the use of Biological Farady Shielding built in to some parts of the chitin. (OK, it doesn't make much sense now, but I'll do some reading and patch this up later) Telepathy allows them to act as battlefield commanders, and their Massive Craniums allow them to outbrain like 10 human commanders at time. Also, they can climb around, have dark chitin, mandibles and can grasp so they'd make pretty cool and physically durable ambushers.
So, if we made this hypothetical unit or some other, and it had a UP cost similar to sectoids (probably higher since bigger and more abilities) would we be able to insert one into a squad of sectoids or whatever our infantry unit is at that point, without having to bring an entire unit of them? So like 9 sectoids 1 Ungenk or 9 sectoids one Thin Man etc etc
EDIT 2 to avoid Double Post:
Revision Option 1
Stealth Scout
An alternate form of the OG Small Scout, reshaped and upgraded to dodge radar and visual detection. We forsake our usual preference for featureless vessels and craft the hull to nullify, absorb, and allow radar to pass over it. The hull is coated in Optic Metamaterials, which allow it to become significantly more difficult to visually spot.
With a successful roll on this, they'd have to mostly resort to thermal imagery or something to spot us before we land until they evolve technologically.
And I'm gonna be honest with y'all fellas I have no idea how we are gonna revise some armor with no previous armor, unless revisions work waaay different in this game than they do in others (more "small design" than "revision") so the only way I see us getting armor this turn is revising it biologically onto Sectoids.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 25, 2017, 11:36:28 pm
Also + 1 to nuke plan
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 05:00:59 am
I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.
Also, whilst I like it, I kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as well. That, and I really like the idea of using masks.
With apologies to Failbird, my own take on mask-folk:
Mask-Men: Fresh from the gene banks, patched up with Earth creature DNA, the Mask-Men are ready to be unleashed on the world below. Part reptile, part insect, Mask-Men are cold-blooded, patient, and quick-witted. Their form is humanoid; two legs, two main arms (with a pair of useless vestigial arms on the torso). Their skin is half scales, half chitin, and all relatively resistant to small-arms fire- not immune, but enough to survive more than their fair share of punishment. Their hands (which have three fingers and an opposable thumb), and the back of their head, have a pale, smooth look, which could be mistaken for human skin by someone not paying all too much attention. They are relatively strong, certainly stronger than the average human, and their forearms possess a sharp natural blade, which combined with their slightly longer limbs, provides them a potent melee weapon.
The Mask-Men's titular mask is not, in fact, a mask, but an exoskeletal extrusion that covers their face with two interlocking plates, which is induced into growing into the shape of a mask- commonly mimicking the tragedy/comedy masks that Earthlings use to indicate the presence of their theatres (https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-masks-tragedy-comedy-model/776489), although other types of masks are also used. These ivory-coloured veneers, and custom-tailored suits, let Mask-Men operate in human society with only a few curious glances. When the time for infiltration is over, however, the 'masks' split open along the middle, and slide back against the head, revealing the horrifying face beneath- a gruesome insectile visage, featuring bug-eyes, mandibles, and all that good stuff.
At this point, the innocuous gentlemen become bloodthirsty monsters, as they leap forwards, tearing their suits, revealing their bladed forearms, cutting down their victims before gorging themselves on their flesh.
Mask-Men are moderately intelligent- enough to be capable of basic subterfuge. They possess a form of vocal chords, letting them speak in a chittering, insect-like voice. Their capacity for the Gift is limited, although not completely absent, though at present we have no techniques for them to employ (*Note, we might later revise a psi-glamour to enhance their infiltration abilities).
They should serve as acceptable infiltrators, and capable combatants, although they do not excel at either.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 26, 2017, 08:05:24 am
I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.True, but I want to get the most out of our DNA token, that and I think it would make the design harder unnecessarily if we were to mash a bunch of things together rather than getting a solid, effective base with our Earth DNA and improving that with alien bits.
Quote
I kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as wellDude, it's a giant octopus with guns, how is that NOT effective in combat? Even past its ability to replicate humans, it has great stealth(powerful natural camouflage) for setting up ambushes, and is an amazing grappler(tentacles with suction cups) capable of both locking down and disarming enemies.
This design is the most important traits of both the thin man and seeker combined with a bit extra.
However since people keep saying that's somehow not good enough I can enhance them in a few ways.
edit: there, it now has higher raw strength, and also wields a plasma pistol side arm, even when its non-side arm is a plasma pistol.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 26, 2017, 08:25:40 am
I mean haven't you played the Octodad games :P, The Octupus has a really difficult time playing and utilizing its six arms for basic tasks. Imagine trying to have that many arms and trying to perform maneuvers like flanking and aiming, during the heat of combat. Basically a unit that would have that many functional with each a mind of its own, would probably be in the same difficulty of creating such a super-genius level of intellect for a sectoid or whatever species. The octopuses in the water can get away from this problem because they aren't constricted in the vertical dimension.
Your going to need a lot of nerves in its nervous system, a lot.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 09:05:02 am
I'm not sure what ebbor intends with the DNA tokens, but I suspect that it is "add Earth bits to Alien DNA", not "add Alien bits to Earth DNA". I mean, your common or garden octopus is not a six-foot tall humanoid, is intelligent for an animal but not smart enough for our purposes, not very good at combat, and lives in the water. There are way more changes you need to make to an octopus to make it into what you want than there would be if you started with an alien and added octopus bits.I like the Octodad idea, although I feel compelled to point out that we don't have to base every species 100% off of Earth creatures. We presumably have gene banks containing the DNA of a wide variety of alien species. So Octodad could be, like, 80% alien, 20% Earth octopus.True, but I want to get the most out of our DNA token, that and I think it would make the design harder unnecessarily if we were to mash a bunch of things together rather than getting a solid, effective base with our Earth DNA and improving that with alien bits.
Mind you, I think that this is mostly relevant for fluff purposes, and won't make a huge difference to the outcome of the design.
Quote
Ah, well, it was the lack of you hyping up its combat abilities in the proposal that confused me. Ebbor is not a mind-reader, if you want a feature, you need to ask for it. As it stands, it reads like a unit designed primarily for infiltration, that has some incidental combat value. You should add a paragraph describing why it is an effective fighter- "It's an octopus with guns" doesn't actually make it sound that potent. Describe its stealth abilities, the value of its tentacles in melee combat, and I could get on board with it.QuoteI kinda like the idea of making a species that is good in combat as wellDude, it's a giant octopus with guns, how is that NOT effective in combat? Even past its ability to replicate humans, it has great stealth(powerful natural camouflage) for setting up ambushes, and is an amazing grappler(tentacles with suction cups) capable of both locking down and disarming enemies.
This design is the most important traits of both the thin man and seeker combined with a bit extra.
However since people keep saying that's somehow not good enough I can enhance them in a few ways.
edit: there, it now has higher raw strength, and also wields a plasma pistol side arm, even when its non-side arm is a plasma pistol.
You forget one of the most important thing with designing a unit with multiple limbs, motor control. I'd imagine it would require extra investment just so you have a unit that can function with all its limbs so you can have "8 plasma pistols firing down range", however this investment could equally spent on just simply increasing the creature's intelligence. I'm just thinking that while it looks flashy, it's probably going to have some problem with trying to utilize its Arms in... effective manners.Boo this man. The XCOM setting is not hard sci-fi. Implausible creatures exist all the time. The Rule of Cool is an important determinant of what works or not. An octo-man sounds cool, and is sufficiently plausible, therefore it will work.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 26, 2017, 10:07:30 am
Quote from: Votes
StrategyNoticed Sprinkled Chariot voted on a plan.
NUKE's 'Let's All Go To Egypt': (4) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Sprinkled Chariot
Shadowclaw's 'Screw people who like Niles and Robots': (1) Shadowclaw777
Piratejoes "Portugal": (1) Piratejoe
Also, updated the Hugh-Mann with a detailed description of combat capability.
As for your Masked Men NUKE, I'd be okay with them, if you didn't call them Reavers. As it is that name puts them just over the border into the two designs being irreconcilable.
I also feel like our infiltrators "wearing" very obvious masks is quite self defeating, it means they can't actually infiltrate because they are naturally suspicious in most environments.
Note how pretty much all of the physical oddities with Thin Men where easily concealed by sunglasses and a suit, they look completely ordinary unless you pay really close attention.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 11:01:07 am
As for your Masked Men NUKE, I'd be okay with them, if you didn't call them Reavers. As it is that name puts them just over the border into the two designs being irreconcilable.Ah, fair enough. Removed the Reaver name.
I also feel like our infiltrators "wearing" very obvious masks is quite self defeating, it means they can't actually infiltrate because they are naturally suspicious in most environments.
Note how pretty much all of the physical oddities with Thin Men were easily concealed by sunglasses and a suit, they look completely ordinary unless you pay really close attention.
As for the masks being suspicious... I mean, yes, sort of. But I'm assuming the world operates on a kind of fiction-logic where NPCs ignore things that are a little bit out of place. And, I mean, if you saw a bunch of dudes wearing masks IRL, you'd think "Those are some weird dudes", but not "ALIENS!!", so it isn't that big of a giveaway.
I'll admit, though, that part of the reason I like the masks is that I like giving things handicaps, rather than make them perfect in every way. I always figure that if you suggest a perfect design, the GM is gonna be looking for flaws to stick on it for game balance purposes anyway, so might as well save time and build in a few.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 26, 2017, 11:15:56 am
Ah, fair enough. Removed the Reaver name.Well yes, but at the same time unless we never use them for ANYTHING espionage related other than recruitment then people are going to get suspicious of strange men wearing masks showing up in their cities before bad things happen, and they won't be able to infiltrate any location more secure than public areas without drawing attention. It's quite a large handicap to have.
As for the masks being suspicious... I mean, yes, sort of. But I'm assuming the world operates on a kind of fiction-logic where NPCs ignore things that are a little bit out of place. And, I mean, if you saw a bunch of dudes wearing masks IRL, you'd think "Those are some weird dudes", but not "ALIENS!!", so it isn't that big of a giveaway.
I'll admit, though, that part of the reason I like the masks is that I like giving things handicaps, rather than make them perfect in every way. I always figure that if you suggest a perfect design, the GM is gonna be looking for flaws to stick on it for game balance purposes anyway, so might as well save time and build in a few.
Post by: piratejoe on December 26, 2017, 01:34:27 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 02:40:51 pm
Anyone object to changing the target to Brazil?
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 26, 2017, 02:47:15 pm
Even pathetic sectoids can become danger, when many little gifts are united in one greater.
By placing many living sectoid brains in tube filled with Medical gel and nutrient paste, we let them unite in one psychic presence of horrifying power, power great enough to project psishield around craft, fire searing rays of mental energy, or even straight up dominate weaker minds.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 02:58:48 pm
Quote from: Votes
StrategyI'm going to assume everyone is cool with going to Brazil, and have edited the plan (and moved PJs vote) accordingly.
NUKE's 'Let's All Go ToEgyptBrazil (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7652585#msg7652585)': (5) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Sprinkled Chariot, Piratejoe
Shadowclaw's 'Screw people who like Niles and Robots': (1) Shadowclaw777
Piratejoe's "Portugal":
Post by: Puppyguard on December 26, 2017, 03:40:54 pm
I'm going to assume everyone is cool with going to Brazil, and have edited the plan (and moved PJs vote) accordingly.Sure I'm fine with brazil. My only concern is they might have interceptors patrolling there due to panic, but let's try it and find out what happens.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 26, 2017, 03:47:08 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 26, 2017, 03:47:45 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 03:57:46 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 26, 2017, 04:07:59 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 26, 2017, 04:25:37 pm
Quote
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 2 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 1xMeld container, 1xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Scout Drone (2UP)
Destination: Brazil
Mission executed.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision phase
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 26, 2017, 04:36:40 pm
Basic Craft Obfuscation: By changing the profile of our craft, and the use of certain materials covering their hulls, we greatly reduce their signature on conventional sensors. We aren't making them totally invisible (yet), but it should be substantially harder for XCOM to detect vessels equipped with BCO measures.
BCO measures can be applied to all our craft, although it should be optional- we may, for whatever reason, wish to deploy craft without them.
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: piratejoe on December 26, 2017, 06:52:05 pm
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (2) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe
Post by: Ardent Debater on December 26, 2017, 07:12:32 pm
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Ardent Debater
Post by: Failbird105 on December 26, 2017, 07:13:35 pm
Quote from: Votes
RevisionYeah I'll go for this, get a stealth upgrade and then make a good infiltrator alien next turn. Speaking of, I fixed up the infiltrator design, mostly the same, but works better for the DNA token, and is cooler.
BCO: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Ardent Debater
ECM: (2) Shadowclaw, Failbird105
Quote from: Design: Skin Crawler
In anticipation of the need for an infiltration unit, we looked all through our DNA banks to find something suitable, we found one. A creature we called the Faceless. It was capable of perfectly replicating the physical form of a being(just one) it took in the DNA of. Unfortunately, this was simply infeasible to reproduce with our current resources. Therefore, we took what we could from that base, and merged in the next best thing, we have introduced the DNA of a mimic octopus into the mix. The Skin Crawlers take a shape like its octopus side by default, with a faceless' head instead of the normal bulbous one of octopi. They have a set of eight tentacles, each of which are four inches thick at their base and 1.5 at their tip lined on their underside with suction cups, the tentacles each end a few inches early in a set of three short, viciously clawed digits kept from the faceless, these allow it to form hands, it braids two tentacles around eachother to form each individual limb, this makes them twice as strong as average, but obviously inhuman when not covered. A Skin Crawlers intelligence is equal to sectoids on a general level, but it has extra enhancements dedicated to social interaction and language, it still struggles to manage "slang" however. It cannot manage the perfect replication its the faceless could, but it can pretty much perfectly mimic human skin and hair colors in addition to the mimic octopus' ability to mimic the color of the ground around it, and can use the faceless shape altering to replicate a human face fairly accurately, but it remains somewhat in the "uncanny valley" as humans call it, the main problem is it can only do one expression at a time, bigger changes like for talking or going from open smile to large frown are awkward, but the smaller, subtler ones are well within its capacity. It has vocal chords, and can speak relatively well despite its face problems, albeit rather monotone.I updated it to use an alien base, and merged in the mimic octopus afterwards instead of the reverse. This should be much more in the spirit of the DNA token.
Its physical strength is above human levels, however its lack of bones makes carrying heavy objects very hard(hauling along the ground works though). It can hold objects and is capable of precise manipulation on the level of any human.
In combat meanwhile, it can shed its disguise(basically just slipping out of its clothes) and then bloat itself up into a giant octopoid creature, carrying itself around rapidly on its clawed tentacles. It can technically hold and wield a gun with each tentacle, but needs to use two at a time to keep them steady. Its unarmed tentacles can be lashed around rapidly and, due to the faceless' elastic skin, stretch long distances to slash and grab at nearby enemies with vicious claws. It can also use the tentacles for climbing with its suction cups and to grab enemies in a tight grip and rip their weapons from their hands. Its mimic octopus camouflage lets it blend in effortlessly with the color and texture of its surroundings, however it can't wear armor if it is to do so, as such a thing would immediately give it away.
Typically a Skin Crawler wears a generic black suit outfit in disguise, and is equipped with a plasma pistol in addition to its primary weapon(even if said weapon is a plasma pistol).
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 26, 2017, 07:21:07 pm
So let you show you an actually effective revision that's suppose to help guarantee we have aerial dominance this turn. Otherwise guess what? That stealth technology is giving us no help to our egg-in-one-basket mission. The enemy has already showed the effort of having two interceptors, probably three interceptors. There going to send all of there three interceptors at the mission, aren't they because we only have 1 mission. We have to hope that our Medium Fighter can handle three interceptors with some light support from the Scouts?...
Quote
Electric Countermeasure (ECM): The enemy utilize outdated guided missiles to destroy our craft, while effective before they will soon realize it has no application and doesn't even work the way they intended. The ECM we as the aliens utilize more of the defensive mind that involves advance means of blip enhancement and missile terminal homers to make sure that their missiles can't get a lock-on our crafts, making them nearly totally useless in the sky. They could always try dumb-firing their missiles in the sky, but how effective would that be? The ECM is meant to be placed in the Navigation system of a UFO that can be activated on any moment, temporarily utilizing some power to make sure that the ECM is active. As noted its is quite effective at creating a "jamming" signal against enemy missiles which means that they can't lock on or be guided to our craft It can also be utilized by our own artificial drone crafts and they activate the ECM at their own discretion.
ECM measures are much optional, and as it is intended to be incorporated into the Navigation system of a UFO, it can be applied to all crafts.
Edit: Your using the logic that a Medium Fighter with Two Scouts can handle three interceptors and come out of top... that is a very large gamble to take. There are so many factors to take in here whether they upgraded their weapons, ship armor, etc. However this mission is really important because if the enemy has the possibility of getting aerial superiority over us, than we probably have two landed UFOs that get taken out by a Skyranger's team of elites and than blown up by a interceptor; and they still get research information out of the UFO salvage. The importance of making sure the enemy doesn't take any technology from us, is crucial. Which will likely happen if we don't try to ensure aerial superiority over the enemy this turn.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 26, 2017, 07:33:07 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 26, 2017, 07:34:57 pm
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Ardent Debater
ECM: (3) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Puppyguard
Post by: piratejoe on December 26, 2017, 07:50:34 pm
Quote from: Votes
RevisionWelp, lets make them suffer more then, and by that I mean lets make their aircraft useless against our own.
BCO: (2) NUKE9.13, Ardent Debater
ECM: (4) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Post by: ~Neri on December 26, 2017, 10:33:40 pm
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (2) NUKE9.13, Ardent Debater
ECM: (5) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kevak
Air Superiority is the only thing that matters when it comes down to it.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 26, 2017, 11:00:36 pm
Quote from: VotesRevision
BCO: (2) NUKE9.13, Ardent Debater
ECM: (6) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kevak, Tyrant Leviathan
Air Superiority is the only thing that matters when it comes down to it.
Jam the missiles then work on radar jamming.
Post by: Ardent Debater on December 26, 2017, 11:10:55 pm
Quote from: Votes
Revision
BCO: (1) NUKE9.13
ECM: (7) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kevak, Tyrant Leviathan, Ardent Debater
Next turn, we should develop the BCO and go all out with amping up our aircraft. Air superiority is key, if they can't defeat us in the sky, the ground will be easy as pie.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 02:47:20 am
Also, Shadow, in this case, putting all our eggs in one basket is the correct move, because if we split up our eggs, XCOM will have an easier time shooting down/capturing a mission. Our eggs get stronger when put together. By not working on stealth tech, you are consigning us to using the same strategy next turn, and just revising stealth then instead.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 27, 2017, 04:09:14 am
As with future endeavors, for UFOs we want to perform more important missions such as of the infiltration type than they would get ECM and the enemy wouldn't even differentiate the more important UFOs from the simple UFOs performing a simple harvest mission. The enemy might think that a simple UFO protected by a Medium Fighter is of higher priority and would send multiple interceptors, but the lonely UFO that they can't interpret being the higher priority, would only send a single interceptors that couldn't even blast it down because of ECM. Lastly, I believe developing a simple form of ECM would probably be easier than trying to develop Stealth Radar technologies, or at least reliable and consistent ones would be much more difficult to produce.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 04:34:04 am
Air Superiority is the only thing that matters when it comes down to it.Speaking of this, ebbor, I may be confused, so could you clarify: is this game primarily about UFOs and Interceptors dogfighting, with ground combat thrown in as an afterthought, or is it more like the videogames, where the aerial combat is only a sideshow to the ground focus?
Anyway, like I said, I can see the appeal of ECM. I think BCO is the better choice, but I won't be tearing my hair out if ECM wins.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 27, 2017, 05:57:59 am
Quote
ebbor, I may be confused, so could you clarify: is this game primarily about UFOs and Interceptors dogfighting, with ground combat thrown in as an afterthought, or is it more like the videogames, where the aerial combat is only a sideshow to the ground focus?
Ground combat is important, and certainly not ignoreable.
You can see that in the first turn. The enemy shot down one of your UFO's, the UFO crashed. They didn't follow up on it, so the UFO got repaired and took off again.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 27, 2017, 07:48:43 am
The exception is if we roll in a way that makes it always active, in which case it might be noticeable beforehand and thus not apply this turn.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 09:11:27 am
Post by: Failbird105 on December 27, 2017, 10:01:23 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 10:51:03 am
Also, question for ebbor: I assume it is possible to get EP and VP tokens as well, right? Any hints as to what sort of missions would yield such rewards?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 27, 2017, 11:58:26 am
Quote
ebbor: I assume it is possible to get EP and VP tokens as well, right? Any hints as to what sort of missions would yield such rewards?
It's possible, certainly
EP and VP tokens would be awarded for stuff that makes it easier for you to deploy them. Either stealing resources or production capacity, establishing closer places to base them from, stuff like that.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 03:07:23 pm
Nanofabricator Wing: Our lunar base struggles to meet the needs of our growing invasion. It is high time we expanded it. A whole new wing, half the size of the original base, will be constructed. Alongside warehouses and conventional factories, we shall install in this new wing numerous Nanofabricators, vats of nanobots that can be programmed to construct whatever it is we desire. The primary goal is to substantially increase equipment production, with the potential for vehicle components to be created this way as well.
A revision to the Harvest mission:
Resource Harvesting: As our efforts ramp up, it becomes necessary to acquire ever more resources. Some of which are easiest to acquire from Earth itself. We shall travel to sites where the resources we require may be found- be that mines, factories, warehouses, or whathaveyou- pacify any nearby Earthlings, and start harvesting. This mission works best with high-capacity craft that can carry large quantities of supplies, and strong units that can easily handle the movement of heavy materials.
If XCOM shows up, they are to be eliminated or driven off.
Why stick to one excellent videogame, when you can pull in ideas from other excellent videogames? This is a mission design which should hopefully earn us Psitanium tokens, to aid in Psionics research. And cause no small amount of Panic on the side.
Psitanium Harvest: We have made an astonishing discovery on Earth. The mineral Psitanium (a purple, crystalline substance), vanishingly rare elsewhere in the galaxy, exists in relative abundance here! This miraculous substance can be refined into an extremely psychoreactive metal, known as Psyalloy, which can be used to enhance Psionic abilities. And the Earthlings have no idea! They consider the stuff- which they call something else [suggest a name?]- to be worthless, useful only for decorative purposes. It is absolutely imperative that we harvest as much as possible, whilst not letting the Earthlings discover the (metaphorical) gold mine they are sitting on. Therefore, this mission involves a degree of subterfuge.
On the surface, this mission appears to be one of pure destruction, as we run rampant through the area- infiltrators setting off explosive charges, terror units engaging in displays of wanton violence, regular troops gunning down anyone in their sights and smashing buildings. In reality, all this is a cover for our true purpose: the acquisition of Psitanium. As the majority of our forces are causing chaos, a select few are tasked with breaking into jewelry stores, warehouses, or other locations containing significant quantities of the precious substance, and gathering as much as they can. Other troops are encouraged to steal things as well, to further disguise our mission's purpose.
Once we have purloined all the Psitanium in the area, we can leave. Should XCOM interfere, we are to continue the facade of chaos as we fight them off. Should defeat seem inevitable, the collected Psitanium should be destroyed, rather than letting XCOM get a clue as to our intentions.
The collected Psitanium can be refined back at base to unleash its potential. Small amounts go a long way- we are used to working with microscopic quantities; even a single kilo of the mineral can be used to produce dozens of kilos of Psyalloy.
Once we have obtained Psitanium, we can do stuff like this simple revision:
Psyalloy Amulet: This is a very simple device- basically just a lump of Psyalloy on a cord, that can be worn around the neck of humanoid species, or attached to some other bodypart of non-humanoids. Simple it may be, but its presence enhances the wearer's psi-abilities considerably, giving them the equivalent of two Sectoids-worth of extra Psionic power.
Or this weapon design:
Psi-Rifle: The Psyalloy barrel of this weapon is constructed such as to greatly amplify the user's Psionic power with regards to the technique known as "Psi-Blast". Even unaugmented Sectoids can wield this weapon to great effect, firing deadly bolts of foe-seeking Psionic energy that can fry the brains of the unprepared, instantly killing weak-willed individuals, and dealing serious hurt unto others- in a manner that cannot be stopped by armour or cover, as Psi-energy passes effortlessly through both.
Or any number of other things. Ebbor, would this (Psitanium) be acceptable as a concept?
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 27, 2017, 03:21:57 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 03:35:39 pm
And psychoactive conduits are outside of our grasp before we swag with golden chains ?A) I didn't mean gold- humans think gold has value, I'm imaging Psitanium as some semi-precious stone-, though I understand the confusion, what with me saying "gold mine". I've changed that to "(metaphorical) gold mine"
B) No, we should be able to design Psionic circuitry without this mission type, just like we can perform genetic modification without DNA tokens. I'm proposing a way of getting easier/better results.
Post by: Thanatos Russ on December 27, 2017, 04:03:16 pm
Nuke, isn't it clear that both are really important but ground combat is the only time the humans can alien resources? the aerial combat is to see if you get shot down and/or land unopposed - basically reducing how many places the humans need to defend with their troops.
Presumably the aerial combat becomes more important if both sides end up putting more designs and revisions into it, since more resources spent in the air is less resources spent on the ground.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 27, 2017, 04:07:46 pm
What I'm saying is that the sentiment 'aerial combat is all that matters' is definitively untrue.
Post by: Thanatos Russ on December 27, 2017, 04:21:27 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 27, 2017, 04:38:01 pm
In future the Xenouat Bomb city option sounds really good though. Also maybe make a orbiting drone platform to monitor air control and locate the human base. But need big ship with huge crew for that.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 27, 2017, 06:02:20 pm
I feel next turns we need to overhaul ground as that is how we get resources. We do need air power to get it back to base. But need minions to get their hands dirty.So what kind of thing are you suggesting, new units? If so I feel my giant dual wielding stealth octopus would be a good idea for that.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 27, 2017, 06:31:26 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 27, 2017, 08:36:16 pm
Violet Quartz fits all the listed criteria. Purple, generates electricity for no immediately apparent reason, is really abundant in geologically active celestial objects with earth’s mineral content/atmosphere.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 27, 2017, 11:12:50 pm
Also, we can probably try to find It at moon.
Post by: Culise on December 28, 2017, 12:07:39 am
Earth name suggestion for psitanium: QuartzYes, but do you really want to validate pseudoscientific/crystal healing principles that argue amethyst is ideal for stimulating the third eye, increasing intelligence, and empowering imagination and perception? It's also said to protect against psychic attack, so there's that as well. :P
Violet Quartz fits all the listed criteria. Purple, generates electricity for no immediately apparent reason, is really abundant in geologically active celestial objects with earth’s mineral content/atmosphere.
Also great for healing and, in Roman literature, preventing drunkenness. For being a rather pretty piece of trigonal silica, it seems to do quite a bit.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 28, 2017, 06:55:08 am
Quote
Or any number of other things. Ebbor, would this (Psitanium) be acceptable as a concept?
I'm not certain it's fair to let you introduce "out-of-setting" stuff just like that. So, probably not.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 28, 2017, 08:36:55 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 28, 2017, 04:57:08 pm
Quote
Electric Countermeasure (ECM): The enemy utilize outdated guided missiles to destroy our craft, while effective before they will soon realize it has no application and doesn't even work the way they intended. The ECM we as the aliens utilize more of the defensive mind that involves advance means of blip enhancement and missile terminal homers to make sure that their missiles can't get a lock-on our crafts, making them nearly totally useless in the sky. They could always try dumb-firing their missiles in the sky, but how effective would that be? The ECM is meant to be placed in the Navigation system of a UFO that can be activated on any moment, temporarily utilizing some power to make sure that the ECM is active. As noted its is quite effective at creating a "jamming" signal against enemy missiles which means that they can't lock on or be guided to our craft It can also be utilized by our own artificial drone crafts and they activate the ECM at their own discretion.Normal : 2 + 1 (Buggy Mess)
ECM measures are much optional, and as it is intended to be incorporated into the Navigation system of a UFO, it can be applied to all crafts.
Creating a universal solution to fool the enemies missile technology turns out to be somewhat harder than initially expected. In isolation, the system works perfectly. Signal enhancers can make any ship appear far larger and more threatening than others, while the jammer should prevent the missiles from attaining a lock. Unfortunately, the created energy signature plays hell with the various navigation computers, rendering them completely unusable. With jammers active, UFO's can only be controlled manually, which restricts maneuvers to straight lines at subsonic velocity.
Battle
Quote
Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 2 Small Scout , 1 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 1xMeld container, 1xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Scout Drone (2UP)
Destination: Brazil
As the three UFO's dropped to the Earth, Senses-the-gift left it's mind to wander. Gently, it tapped into the mindstreams of it's batch mates, letting it's gift take it on a journey through the minds of the other sectoids on board. A tranquil unity enveloped it as it lets it's mind be subsumed into the stream, with just a tiny hint of anticipation and fear deep in the background. Sharply delineated among the background where the minds of the Reveres-the-elders and Punishes-the-heathens, focused intently on operating Light Ufo. Other minds were present through, checking weaponry, minding the Essence and, well in the distance, controlling the other UFO. And through, among, and above it all was an all encompassing presence, for the Elders were with them, now more than ever.
Suddenly, Senses-the-gift, felt something reach for it's mind and a moment of confusion later it was looking through Punishes-the-Heathens eyes. On the display four strange ships had appeared, climbing towards the ships. And so, without complain or question, it let go of Mindstream and subsumed it self into the Merge.
The Medium Fighter is the first to react, breaking of from the group as it accelerates to it's maximum velocity. The other two UFO's react but a fraction of a second later, turning their vessels and disappearing into the clouds. Three Ravens oppose them, the fast and nimble XCOM interceptors each armed with 12 deadly Avalanche missiles.
The Ravens have been caught badly out of position, still climbing while the Medium fighter is already diving towards them. Surprised by the Fighter's greater speed and mobility, they do not have the time to fire even a single missile before the viridescent green bolts are already flying among them. The medium fighter bursts straight through the formation, having smashed one fighter straight into debris.
Senses-the-gift experiences a moment of elation as it's sees the fighter fall, before it's mind is once again subsumed by the merge. In Unity, it handles the controls, and the turret answers. Viridiscent blasts fly away from the hull towards the human fighters. They scatter desperately, trying to evade, but more fire from the other UFO cuts one of them down. Without wings, the primitive construct plummets towards the Earth.
The last Raven unleashes it's entire missile load upon the twin craft, twelve missiles spiraling towards the light craft. But it's a bad launch and made in desperation, as just moments later the Medium fighter passes through again and obliterates the craft. Eight of the missiles fail to acquire a lock and spin of aimlessly, disappearing into the clouds. Explosions rip at a Light UFO's hull, but the craft shudders and moves on, vitals still intact.
Fear grips Senses-the-gifts minds as it sees the last 2 missiles flying towards it's ship. In a moment, it panics, and before it truly realized it, it has seized Punishes-the-Heathens arm and pressed the button. Light flicker across the UFO as it lurches suddenly, tumbling slowly as the navigation computer shuts down. Continuing on their path, the two missiles narrowly miss the tumbling UFO. A few hundred meters lower, the UFO flight computer reboots and puts the UFO back in level flight.
With the last XCOM craft diving rapidly towards the ground, the UFO's give up the fight and resumes with their mission.
Senses-the-gift let's out a grunt of effort as it pulls yet another unmoving human into the UFO. The specimen is heavy, and it's been the fifth such specimen it had to move on it's own this day. With an uncaring gesture, it dropped the human into the hold, then followed the drone to fetch yet another.
The drone vanishes. Shrapnel bounces of the UFO. A crack of thunder echoes through the village. Then another crack, and another. Drones vanish from the sky, and pain rips through the mindflow as bodies are torn apart. Senses-the-gift jumps behind a car, hiding as it opens it's mind to the stream once more. Ignoring the pain, it pushes outwards, to those strange, wrong alien minds. Melding minds with a human felt wrong, but it had to do it to save what was left of his batchmates.
With most of the village knocked out by drones, it wasn't hard to find the humans. There were but a few of them, hiding in the Jungle near the village. The weapons they used were unusual, and it took senses-the-gift but a moment to recognize why. The heretics had perverted the elders technology, broken it to cobble together a weapon of their own. One fired, and a moment later a short iron rod smashed through a car, missing Senses-the-mind by but a hair.
It ran, and as it did, so did the other sectoids. The remaining droids too converged upon the few humans hiding near the edge of the forest, dodging between the low buildings to avoid painting too great a target. Plasma fire started to converge in their direction, tearing through the trees and setting fire to the Topiary. But the humans kept their calm, and despite how outnumbered they were they reaped a deadly toll.
Senses-the-mind was right up to them now, hidden near the bottom of a hill, the humans out of sight on the other side. But thanks to the merge, it knew where they were, and it had a plan. With a single throw, it threw the grenade, the projectile travelling smoothly over the small hull. An explosion ripped through the jungle, killing several of the humans. With their defense in disarray, the human force crumpled and fell.
Mission Success : [Severe Losses result in Negative loot modifier]
Loot : 1 UP token, 1 DNA Token
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design Phase
First Month End : The war intensifies. You receive one VP/UP/EP of choice, to use immediately.
Challenge : Write a (short) excerpt on any of the recent battles from any perspective. (Reward : ??? + 1 unrestricted token)
Turn 4 Start
AABBCCDD
Post by: piratejoe on December 28, 2017, 05:06:08 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 28, 2017, 05:14:12 pm
I think we want the extra VP for the month-end bonus.
We should use our revision to fix the ECM, since it'll be easier now.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 28, 2017, 05:28:01 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 28, 2017, 06:04:42 pm
Also, I feel like we should get a VP, we have to use it immediately so I recommend spending it on a Scout.
I'm voting for the Skin Crawler
Quote from: Designs
Skin Crawler (1) - Failbird105
-Use no DNA tokens ():
-Use one DNA token ():
-Use two DNA tokens (1):
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 28, 2017, 06:17:47 pm
Spoiler: Challenge submission (click to show/hide)
Anyway, votes:
Quote from: Votes
Design
Skin Crawler (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7653353#msg7653353):
-Using 2 DNA Tokens: (1) NUKE9.13
Month-End Bonus
VP: (2) NUKE9.13, Failbird105
I figure DNA tokens are pretty easy to get, and the Octodads have the potential to be really useful units for the rest of the game, so using two on them is not excessive.
Post by: Failbird105 on December 28, 2017, 06:22:13 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 28, 2017, 06:24:10 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design
Skin Crawler (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7653353#msg7653353):
-Using 2 DNA Tokens: (2) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard.
Month-End Bonus
VP: (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard
Wow nuke, you write fast!
Post by: Kashyyk on December 28, 2017, 06:27:18 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 28, 2017, 06:28:25 pm
We have to use the VP now, as in literally the update says to use it immediately. I say we get a free Scout, that way we can make use of all six of our UP. Also you forgot my vote for two tokens.Sorry, I didn't see your edit.
Also, yeah, I guess Small Scouts are likely to always be useful to some degree, so getting a free one would be reasonable.
Quote from: Votes
Design
Skin Crawler (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7653353#msg7653353):
-Using 2 DNA Tokens: (3) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Failbird105
Month-End Bonus
VP spent on Small Scout: (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 28, 2017, 07:15:43 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 28, 2017, 07:51:01 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 28, 2017, 08:06:52 pm
That was a great update. Properly done xenofiction is always a treat to read. Well done Ebbor.This. I really enjoyed seeing the battle from the perspective of the sectoids. (and the drone, thanks nuke!)
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 28, 2017, 08:14:44 pm
ECM 2
We get the energy signature under control, allowing us to navigate normally while using ECM.
ECM 2B
We get the energy signature under control, allowing us to navigate normally while using ECM, and boost the power and flexibility of the signal enhancers, allowing us greater control over our perceived sensor signature.
Just extra security plus the ability to really juke them out if we wanna be ambitious. Assuming they haven't figured ECM out based on it's single use last mission, we could trick them into thinking we've sent something Very Big and threatening but it's merely a ruse.
Plasma Mine
By upsizing the Plasma Grenade and adding a proximity sensor, we can create a destructive, demoralizing weapon to defend us against human ground counterattacks.
Bio-Armor
By injecting our units with a serum of crustacean and insectoid DNA, we can cause them to grow a chitinous exoskeleton.
I guess this could qualify as a revision, since it's building off a biological template, I guess.
Plasma Rifle
We upsize the Plasma Pistol into a larger format, increasing range, power, and accuracy. An attachment rail is added.
Scout Drone Mk 2
A layer of Alien Alloy is added, and two Plasma Pistol level cannons are mounted on the sides. The drone is larger, with an upsized Elerium core to support the increased weight and increase top speeds.
Quote from: Votes
Design
Skin Crawler (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7653353#msg7653353):
-Using 2 DNA Tokens: (5) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Failbird105, SamSpeeds, Tyrant Leviathan
Month-End Bonus
VP spent on Small Scout: (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard
Post by: ~Neri on December 28, 2017, 08:18:34 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 28, 2017, 08:23:16 pm
Quote from: Votes
Design
Skin Crawler (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7653353#msg7653353):
-Using 2 DNA Tokens: (6) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Failbird105, SamSpeeds, Tyrant Leviathan, Piratejoe
Month-End Bonus
VP spent on Small Scout: (4) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 29, 2017, 12:11:19 am
Aliens:
Octodads for sure. Also snake aliens (poison spit, armor, and tongue thing.)
More robots (monkey sized/shaped, humanoid, exosuit, eventually sectoids.)
When we have terror missions, the zombie maker bugs for sure.
My own alien. (Similar to Slenderlion, but not)
Chimera: A mix of alien,human,Reptile, amphibian, and anthropod dna strains. These things look like the stuff of nightmares with harden dark exoskeletons, packed broad bodies enforced with chitin and muscle. Basic organ display and a head with draconian features with three eye sluts. Antenna for hearing and extended touch aura. These things have notable features in they are programmed to fight in groups and navigate to the enemy, serving as tactical field command, their chitin is vastly resistant to be akin to armor, and stem cell storage in legs means that damage can repair in moments of said injury, as long not instant killed can occur. Does not hurt the knuckle regions have blades for modified punch dagger tricks too. ( originally thinking of super jumps, but other aliens can do that, and some amphibians have a healing factor. Hence choice to scrape that for this. Trying for something a little bit different.) And said creatures can work both hands just fine. Due to size and build are a great deal stronger than sectoids.
Do not have to vote for my critter just wanted it displayed, future one will have thin man style super leaping/legs.
Gear:
Plasma rifles: Nuff said.
Micro bomb launcher: Instead of rocket propelled grenade, saturate fire zone with micro explosives that go boom.
Energy Field: Equip as harness. Deflect/catch damage.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 29, 2017, 03:53:33 am
To clarify, (as an observer) ebbor: is the month end bonus a token or a permanent increase in capacity?It's one of those tokens that get you 1 free point of stuff.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 29, 2017, 01:30:04 pm
Quote
On the display four strange ships had appearedOf which three were Ravens.
This means there was only one Skyranger's worth of troops opposing us. So compared to the Japan mission, we had twice the troops, and they had half the troops- and where we barely lost the Japan mission (on the ground, at least), we barely won this one. We also brought grenades on this mission- and by the sound of the update, that was the thing that tipped us over into victory.
In other words, it would seem that their railguns have made their troops almost four times as effective.
Post by: ~Neri on December 29, 2017, 01:36:37 pm
We should bring out Mutons or something and revise the plaspistol into a plasrifle for em. Anyone up for a Month 2 Muton rush?
Post by: piratejoe on December 29, 2017, 02:26:15 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 29, 2017, 02:34:35 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 29, 2017, 02:43:20 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 29, 2017, 03:02:47 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 29, 2017, 03:37:21 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 29, 2017, 03:42:21 pm
Post by: TopHat on December 29, 2017, 03:48:02 pm
Sectoid commander: Whilst sectoids are naturally capable of using the Gift, we have worked hard to improve this ability, taking advantage of their improved strength to support a larger head and brain. Possessed not only with greater strategic intelligence than baseline sectoids, they have a significantly more powerful grasp of the Gift, enabling them to 'see' further and, through the merge, coordinate their fellows, as well as granting the skill to learn and use any more powerful or complicated powers we may later develop.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 29, 2017, 07:16:02 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 30, 2017, 05:24:31 pm
Also think maybe someone should do the Viper, heck I can try. Because I favor that or Octodad. Commanders are handy except when captured.
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 05:26:11 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 30, 2017, 05:40:59 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 05:49:11 pm
Where vipers on the other hand, Vipers are thinmen but without the tinkering needed to make thinmen stealthy and some humanbits added. They have venom sacks and the capacity to Spit it at extreme range naturally. They use some human DNA assuming we're going off of xcom2 lore. They wouldn't have breasts if they didn't for one. Vipers would require tinkering. Thinmen would require tinkering. (And frankly Thinmen are superior skirmishers compared to vipers. The whole 'jump buildings' thing is a pretty powerful ability.)
Post by: Failbird105 on December 30, 2017, 06:03:06 pm
This has been my required input for the day.
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 06:04:15 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on December 30, 2017, 06:06:44 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 06:18:49 pm
I'd still rather have a frontline combat unit more than I'd like a skirmisher.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 30, 2017, 06:27:11 pm
Vipers: Scale Armor, poison and lasso tongue.
Thin Men: Super agile, death poison cloud and strong enough to one hand a plasma rifle.
Mutons: Only good for damage soak really.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 30, 2017, 06:35:53 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 06:36:31 pm
Vipers: Have functionally no armor. Scales are not armor when they're about as resilient as the average gecko.
Lasso: Because pulling a soldier to you when the soldier has a combat knife and a gun is totally a good idea outside of video games.
Poison is good but thinmen do it better.
Thinmen use carbines. Not rifles. Again thinmen are superior to vipers in every way that matters.
Mutons: Trained. Frontliners. Group mentality. Disciplined. Designed and bred for war. Capable of taking multiple hits and continuing fighting. Can punch out a human easily in a melee. Large and intimidating. Has Good, Full Body Armor. A reminder that we've received several GM hints that our 'lack of armor' is a problem.
Chryssalids are ambushes and skirmishers, best in close quarters environs such as urban centers.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 30, 2017, 06:43:57 pm
Chryssalids - 11 terrors out of 10
In Terror of the Deep there were flying octopuses who could do same trick, just they flew.
Edit: And what of Chimeras? They seem to basically be Mutons with basic healing factor.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 30, 2017, 07:35:58 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 30, 2017, 07:46:01 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 07:59:02 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 30, 2017, 08:02:40 pm
Mutons are literally just. Mutons. They're in the genebanks. There is nothing particularly 'new' or 'hard' about making them. They're big, bulky, brawny, and have armor. That's all there is to them.And this is an arms race. Which means anything we design can be determined with a dice roll, so, considering that Mutons are a mid game threat, and we are only on the second month, I would suspect them to be harder to make then the Vipers.
Vipers: Have functionally no armor. Scales are not armor when they're about as resilient as the average gecko.From the Xcom 2 wiki "Despite their resemblance to terrestrial snakes, the Viper is actually a wholly extraterrestrial species unmodified by human DNA. However, it retains the modified Thin Man's poison and high accuracy, combat abilities and intelligence." And, from the multiplayer, they have poison spit just like the thinmen had, so, I don't think thinmen do it better. It also never mentions just how tough their scales are, but a knife probably would be useful if you could manage to pull it out quick enough and use it after being pulled violently and quickly from where you where standing before having the equivalent of what a boa constrictor would do with a much larger snake done to you.
Lasso: Because pulling a soldier to you when the soldier has a combat knife and a gun is totally a good idea outside of video games.
Poison is good but thinmen do it better.
Thinmen use carbines. Not rifles. Again thinmen are superior to vipers in every way that matters.
They didn't fly actually, they only where on missions where you where under water so they could only swim.Chryssalids - 11 terrors out of 10
In Terror of the Deep there were flying octopuses who could do same trick, just they flew.
Edit: And what of Chimeras? They seem to basically be Mutons with basic healing factor.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 30, 2017, 08:10:20 pm
Do you see those 'big bulky metal plates' that Mutons wear? That's called armor.
Ok, but would we not have to design that? If they're wearing it, it sounds like a separate item.
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 08:17:09 pm
Do you see those 'big bulky metal plates' that Mutons wear? That's called armor.
Ok, but would we not have to design that? If they're wearing it, it sounds like a separate item.
That would presumably come with the design. We aren't going to be designing a 'one size fits all' armor like the humies get to do. Because we are multiple different species+modifications to said species. Just fold shit into a given design. Implanted dermal plating is a good excuse. Ye never see em take off their armor at any point after all. Even during the Autopsies.
And this is an arms race. Which means anything we design can be determined with a dice roll, so, considering that Mutons are a mid game threat, and we are only on the second month, I would suspect them to be harder to make then the Vipers.Mutons are midgame lorewise because the ayys don't expect significant resistance initially. So they simply don't field em.
Quote
From the Xcom 2 wiki "Despite their resemblance to terrestrial snakes, the Viper is actually a wholly extraterrestrial species unmodified by human DNA. However, it retains the modified Thin Man's poison and high accuracy, combat abilities and intelligence." And, from the multiplayer, they have poison spit just like the thinmen had, so, I don't think thinmen do it better. It also never mentions just how tough their scales are, but a knife probably would be useful if you could manage to pull it out quick enough and use it after being pulled violently and quickly from where you where standing before having the equivalent of what a boa constrictor would do with a much larger snake done to you.I think you missed the 'Thinmen can jump buildings' thing. Vipers cannot do that. Mobility is the Absolute Most Important Thing for a skirmisher to have. Vipers cannot jump buildings. Thinmen can.
As a note. A reminder that TFTD xenos are not Ethereal Empire sourced. We don't have em in our genebanks.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 30, 2017, 08:56:23 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 30, 2017, 08:57:57 pm
Hmm ok, well maybe make flying octopus that inject embryos.Again, they only worked underwater, not above water.
Post by: Puppyguard on December 30, 2017, 09:12:09 pm
Post by: ~Neri on December 30, 2017, 09:42:17 pm
Post by: crazyabe on December 30, 2017, 10:34:15 pm
The Mindtwister is genetically a mixture between several species we have collected, finished off with the genetics of Humans, they take the form of nearly immobile Bags of flesh and organs with Several eyes and tentacles spaced equally around them. mentally their thoughts tend toward odd solutions to simple problems, for example when questioned what "1 + 1" was they have most often responded with that it was "the square root of 4". They have fairly great strength with the gift, and good focus when given an immediate problem to solve even though they lack mobility.
(Intended role: Gift user and General "On Site" command of any aliens sent with 'em)
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 30, 2017, 10:36:40 pm
Yep, cyberdiscs with the ability to cloak, pretty terrifying...
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 30, 2017, 11:59:55 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 12:45:05 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 31, 2017, 02:13:25 am
What about power field generators for craft, may be small scale personal shields or shielded cyberdiscs?
Also, did we loot xcom stuff for analysis in previous battle ?
Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 02:49:38 am
Long War removes those shackles and makes it consider if it's better to get a cheap shot in or not, as well as makes it consider cloaked overwatch. Seekers are much more robust in Long War due to those AI changes alone. Not to mention the fact that as they are robotic, they get DR.
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 12:56:45 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 31, 2017, 01:06:48 pm
For another, whilst destroying military targets is valuable, I don't think it would cause as much raw panic as a proper terror mission.
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 01:18:45 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 31, 2017, 02:23:32 pm
I say Muton, Viper, Seeker, or cyberdisc. We should upgrade guns after unit.
Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 02:31:37 pm
Seekers are already terrifying, but ones that make chryssalids too? Ohgodswhy.
Followup. Proposed plan of action:
Revise countermeasures to not disable our craft.
Design either seekers, thinmints, or mutons.
Post by: Kashyyk on December 31, 2017, 02:42:50 pm
You guys want a unit that blends in well with humans, can hold their own in combat and is cheap. What you guys want is a human.
Obviously we have human DNA now, so all we need to do is batch clone humans and then psychologically program them with whatever skills we want and an unwavering loyalty in the Ethereal cause. If you're particularly worried about them going rogue we can make them reliant on some Ethereal produced drug (like how human organ transplant patients must take medication forever to prevent transplant rejection).
Human clones can obviously blend in well with humans, and won't put potential human
Human clones will obviously be able to compete with Xcom humans and the potential morale penalty of having to fight their own will be effective too.
They'll also be super easy to produce, because we're not changing them from base human DNA.
Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 02:46:43 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 03:54:40 pm
As for have normal humans as a unit. I feel as if it is a flawless idea, though having them think they are mutons, while frankly hilarious, would probably be a bad idea both for them interacting with humans and in combat.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 31, 2017, 04:07:08 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 04:12:37 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 31, 2017, 04:18:28 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 04:21:22 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on December 31, 2017, 04:34:34 pm
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Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 31, 2017, 04:41:36 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 04:42:16 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 31, 2017, 04:43:21 pm
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Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 04:55:01 pm
Kevak, why do you want thinmen so badly? Vipers are just better. I know you want better mobility but when that mobility is just being able to jump up a story tall floor in exchange for being killed by a stray pistol round and not being able to take as much of a hit as our current sectoids well...that generally considered bad. Also, I should mention that Vipers are still agile, and probably have extreme reaction times considering they are able to dodge shots that would normally hit dead on and make it only a grazing shot...And they can climb ladders and drainage pipes without issue so I feel as if mobility issues aren't really a thing...
As for have normal humans as a unit. I feel as if it is a flawless idea, though having them think they are mutons, while frankly hilarious, would probably be a bad idea both for them interacting with humans and in combat.
Pirate. Idunno what game you were playing but 'a stray pistol round' will not kill a thinman. It'll injure one sure, but a 'stray pistol round' will also injure a viper just as much. Vipers are not superior skirmishers. You're trying to play off 'being able to leap multiple story buildings' as 'just x' but it's not 'just x.' I'm not sure if you realize the tactical implications of a unit capable of flat out bypassing walls, not even accounting for if we oh lets say. Give them snipers or shotguns and play up their 'skirmisher' role even further. Vipers lack the platform stability for sniping duty and they lack the tactical mobility to compete with thinmen in the skirmishing capacity. Their relative fragility compared to vipers notwithstanding, you do not build a skirmisher with the intent of them getting hit. You build one with the intent of 'not' getting hit. Hence the 'high mobility.' and 'Attack from Unexpected angles.
And yes. They can leap multiple story buildings. As can Chryssalids and Berserkers for that matter.
Lets go over the specifics of what vipers are better at than Thinmen.
-Rapid reaction: So they're an overwatcher that's hardish to hit and knows to duck behind cover when someone takes a potshot. This is good in a Frontline Combatant. It's nice to have in a skirmisher too, but there is nothing stopping us from giving thinmen the same thing. Hell, since thinmen have Smaller Profiles they'd be even harder to hit if they had that. I will note though that mechanically speaking, Grazing Shots were not a thing in EU/EW1. Had they been, I'm rather certain thinmen would have received sufficient agility to make shots occasionally graze.
-Climbing ladders and drainage pipes are all well and fine, but what about when there isn't a ladder or a drainage pipe? Such as oh I don't know. A military complex's walls. Or a rather significant number of modern day buildings? Mobility is Extremely important for skirmishers. Possibly Thee most important ability in fact. Snipers can't snipe from street level with ease after all. And it's far easier to get around a blockade by just hopping a building instead of having to search around for a drainpipe that isn't there.
-Not being able to take much of a hit. What? The hell are you talking about? Are we playing the same game? Thinmen by default would be about as durable as our current sectoids. By default thinmen have 5 health if I recall on Normal Difficulty in Vanilla (LW it's 6 and they get more health as the campaign progresses based on the alien research score). A default pistol does 2 damage and fires 3 shots in a single 2 damage attack. For comparison, a default sectoid has 3 health on Normal Difficulty in Vanilla (LW it's 4 and they gain health as the ayys research). So a default sectoid can also take three pistol rounds. For comparison. An unarmored rookie tier human has 4 health by default unless the 'not born equally' second wave setting is on. Rookies with tac armor get an additional 1 health, bringing the 'default redshirt rookie' up to 5 health. Not take a hit my ass. They don't have the 'stacks upon stacks' of health that everything in Xcom 2 does but they don't really need it. They're skirmishers. And nothing is stopping them from wearing bulletproof vests. They are shaped like humans after all.
Vipers are better than Thinmen as Frontline Combatants. However as Frontline Combatants they are inferior to Mutons, Cyberdiscs, and several other xenos. Vipers are explicitly Not better than Thinmen in the skirmisher role.
What's wrong with Octodads?Nothing is wrong with Octodads. They're ambushers that'll do best paired with either skirmishers to lead foes into their trap or with frontliners to just make the combat zone significantly more hazardous for the foe. They'd be a great unit to add in the coming weeks in my view.
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Post by: Failbird105 on December 31, 2017, 05:01:14 pm
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Post by: Kashyyk on December 31, 2017, 05:21:21 pm
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Because why not human clones? Skin Crawlers just sound like an overly complicated way of getting something that looks like a human, when we could instead just use humans...
Post by: NUKE9.13 on December 31, 2017, 05:35:25 pm
Because why not human clones? Skin Crawlers just sound like an overly complicated way of getting something that looks like a human, when we could instead just use humans...Because we're aliens.
Also, humans have immense latent psionic power. At our current tech level, indoctrinating them to the point of unquestioning, absolute obedience is not feasible. It may never be feasible. I mean, even Advent, which are as close to humans as XCOM aliens ever deploy, have the capacity to rebel- unmodified humans would be infinitely harder to control
Also also, I doubt we could even clone humans at present. DNA in XCOM works in weird ways- I suspect we'd need several DNA tokens to even attempt to clone humans. Which, again, we don't want to do.
Seriously. The name of the game is XCOM Arms Race. Aliens VS Humans. If I were ebbor, I would veto us using cloned humans without a second thought.
Post by: SamSpeeds on December 31, 2017, 05:45:43 pm
Anyway, let's not switch to Vipers or Thin Men. Skin Crawlers are fine. They'll give them a host of new problems to deal with, and open up infiltration for us.
Humans are BORING and don't have nearly as much natural advantages as a good Skin Crawler would - environmental camouflage, multiple sets of limbs, maneuverability, claws, and above human strength FINALLY. Humans would basically have NO unique combat advantage, since, say, a human armed with a plasma pistol and a belt of plasma grenades would be seen as an enemy combatant automatically after like one first encounter where they might have a good alpha strike. Skin Crawlers would be "overly complicated" if looking like a human is all they're good for, but that's not the case.
I think they'll go for a fighter upgrade this turn, since we killed them bigly last time, so we might need yet another UFO upgrade soon enough. ECM 2 should do it for now.
Can we finally get armor next turn? With their new weapon, we'd probably have to go Powered Armor if we want something tough enough to stop a railgun shot, but seriously. Enough running around naked.
Post by: Kashyyk on December 31, 2017, 05:56:56 pm
I assume we could clone humans, as we have to have some sort of accelerated growth for our other aliens to be able to produce them so quickly. We'd logically use the same method to produce humans.
It feels like your trying to create a master of all trades with the Skin Changer, so it'll either flop or be expensive. A human clone, while "boring", is a perfectly valid design and does what we want (be an infiltrator that can defend itself) without taking everything and the scifi kitchen sink with it too.
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 07:05:11 pm
Pirate. Idunno what game you were playing but 'a stray pistol round' will not kill a thinman. It'll injure one sure, but a 'stray pistol round' will also injure a viper just as much. Vipers are not superior skirmishers. You're trying to play off 'being able to leap multiple story buildings' as 'just x' but it's not 'just x.' I'm not sure if you realize the tactical implications of a unit capable of flat out bypassing walls, not even accounting for if we oh lets say. Give them snipers or shotguns and play up their 'skirmisher' role even further. Vipers lack the platform stability for sniping duty and they lack the tactical mobility to compete with thinmen in the skirmishing capacity. Their relative fragility compared to vipers notwithstanding, you do not build a skirmisher with the intent of them getting hit. You build one with the intent of 'not' getting hit. Hence the 'high mobility.' and 'Attack from Unexpected angles.A pistol can kill a thinman if the shot crits, a basic revolver pistol round, the kind any armed Civilian in the US might have, can do 4 damage on a crit and normally does 3 to 2 damage. Meaning half the time a single bullet from it will gravely wound and occasionally kill a thinman in one shot. And I don't think a viper lacks the 'platform stability' for sniping, or shooting anything for that matter. I understand and agree that high mobility is key for a skirmisher, what I disagree is having a skirmisher that can be killed so easily because as skilled and agile as they might be, they are still going to get shot at.
Lets go over the specifics of what vipers are better at than Thinmen.This is a understandable point to make, however I would like to address the smaller profiles point you make here. From my understanding, being so similar to snakes and all that, their vital organs would be protected by the armour vipers have, as the unarmored part of their body would mostly be the stomach (and the liver in the upper section), which to my knowledge is one of the better places to get shot in, unlike the shoulder. But yes, this point if a fairly good one.
-Rapid reaction: So they're an overwatcher that's hardish to hit and knows to duck behind cover when someone takes a potshot. This is good in a Frontline Combatant. It's nice to have in a skirmisher too, but there is nothing stopping us from giving thinmen the same thing. Hell, since thinmen have Smaller Profiles they'd be even harder to hit if they had that. I will note though that mechanically speaking, Grazing Shots were not a thing in EU/EW1. Had they been, I'm rather certain thinmen would have received sufficient agility to make shots occasionally graze.
-Climbing ladders and drainage pipes are all well and fine, but what about when there isn't a ladder or a drainage pipe? Such as oh I don't know. A military complex's walls. Or a rather significant number of modern day buildings? Mobility is Extremely important for skirmishers. Possibly Thee most important ability in fact. Snipers can't snipe from street level with ease after all. And it's far easier to get around a blockade by just hopping a building instead of having to search around for a drainpipe that isn't there.Don't most apartments have fire escapes? I mean, in a military base, your point makes sense but, the buildings that don't have fire escapes, like masive high rise office buildings, would probably be to big for thinmen to jump over...in fact, I would frankly be shocked if they could some how jump up a high building like that. At most, I think they would be able to jump five stories high...And, for a military complex's walls...why would we assault the walls? We have UFO's, we can just destroy all the walls while flying before landing, or if the complex is large enough, just land inside it. Mobility is key for skirmishers, I know and get that, just vertical mobility is something that I feel is not worth being able to be picked off by a lucky pistol shot.
-Not being able to take much of a hit. What? The hell are you talking about? Are we playing the same game? Thinmen by default would be about as durable as our current sectoids. By default thinmen have 5 health if I recall on Normal Difficulty in Vanilla (LW it's 6 and they get more health as the campaign progresses based on the alien research score). A default pistol does 2 damage and fires 3 shots in a single 2 damage attack. For comparison, a default sectoid has 3 health on Normal Difficulty in Vanilla (LW it's 4 and they gain health as the ayys research). So a default sectoid can also take three pistol rounds. For comparison. An unarmored rookie tier human has 4 health by default unless the 'not born equally' second wave setting is on. Rookies with tac armor get an additional 1 health, bringing the 'default redshirt rookie' up to 5 health. Not take a hit my ass. They don't have the 'stacks upon stacks' of health that everything in Xcom 2 does but they don't really need it. They're skirmishers. And nothing is stopping them from wearing bulletproof vests. They are shaped like humans after all.In Xcom 2, sectoids which have been genetically modified with the use of human DNA making them stronger, like what we did to our own sectoids have 7 HP on the easiest difficulty, 8 on normal, which is the same as a viper. As I said before, a basic revolver pistol round can do 4 damage on a crit and normally does 3 to 2 damage. On harder difficulties, yes, the thinman has more health and yes, with long war they gain health, but extra health later on doesn't matter unless we decide to spend a revision on them to specifically give them that extra durability. And considering the human body, I think that they might need more then a bullet proof vest...
Vipers are better than Thinmen as Frontline Combatants. However as Frontline Combatants they are inferior to Mutons, Cyberdiscs, and several other xenos. Vipers are explicitly Not better than Thinmen in the skirmisher role.I agree with you on this, kind of. Vipers are not better then thinmen at skirmishing, but thinmen aren't better at vipers. One is a glass cannon, the other is able to actually take a hit and finish off what hit them. Also, a major reason as to why we shouldn't get thinmen is quite simply we will have an infiltration unit already in the form of skin crawlers.
Post by: crazyabe on December 31, 2017, 07:23:32 pm
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Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 07:41:59 pm
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A pistol can kill a thinman if the shot crits, a basic revolver pistol round, the kind any armed Civilian in the US might have, can do 4 damage on a crit and normally does 3 to 2 damage. Meaning half the time a single bullet from it will gravely wound and occasionally kill a thinman in one shot. And I don't think a viper lacks the 'platform stability' for sniping, or shooting anything for that matter. I understand and agree that high mobility is key for a skirmisher, what I disagree is having a skirmisher that can be killed so easily because as skilled and agile as they might be, they are still going to get shot at.
False. A pistol of the tier available to xcom by default in newcom1 cannot kill a thinman if the shot crits. 3 damage crit barring additional perks to increase damage. Which caps out at a 4 damage crit if they have the ranger perk to raise damage by 1. (Still not enough to kill.) Keep in mind that the default pistol fires three shots in a single attack and does total 2 damage in said attack. The cumulative effort of all three bullets is 2 damage. Which isn't even half the health of a default thinmint. Keep in mind that the weapons xcom has available to it lorewise by default are Top Of The Line. The best of the best. A civilian weapon would not compare, although it would probably still be able to kill with sufficient subsequent shots. In Xcom 2, the weapons xcom has available to it are more advanced, that revolver that sharpshooters get that does 4 damage? That's not a thing right now in this armsrace. Xcom 2 ballistics are Definitely flat better than the default ballistics in xcom 1 and that is due to tech advancement.
Also if we're talking about making a unit that can get shot and not care about being shot, we should be turning off pain or alternatively using robots. If a thinman gets shot, it'll be in pain, if a snek gets shot, it'll be in pain.
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This is a understandable point to make, however I would like to address the smaller profiles point you make here. From my understanding, being so similar to snakes and all that, their vital organs would be protected by the armour vipers have, as the unarmored part of their body would mostly be the stomach (and the liver in the upper section), which to my knowledge is one of the better places to get shot in, unlike the shoulder. But yes, this point if a fairly good one.Vipers are bigger than the average human, they need larger organs than a comparative thinmint. The likely location of most of said organs is certainly armored but they're still a significantly larger target. And the number of unarmored locations is.. Substantial if we're talking about armor. Thinmints do not by default have armor, however if they received armor, they would likely be about as durable as you'd expect an armored human combatant to be and then a bit more. Unarmored thinmints are equivalent in durability to an armored human.
I will note that Vipers do have substantially different physiology compared to a human. Know those tails? That's all muscles and tendons and arteries. Imagine how having multiple bullet wounds inside your leg would feel? Imagine that, but you only have one big leg.
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Don't most apartments have fire escapes? I mean, in a military base, your point makes sense but, the buildings that don't have fire escapes, like masive high rise office buildings, would probably be to big for thinmen to jump over...in fact, I would frankly be shocked if they could some how jump up a high building like that. At most, I think they would be able to jump five stories high...And, for a military complex's walls...why would we assault the walls? We have UFO's, we can just destroy all the walls while flying before landing, or if the complex is large enough, just land inside it. Mobility is key for skirmishers, I know and get that, just vertical mobility is something that I feel is not worth being able to be picked off by a lucky pistol shot.Depends on the location. Some countries yes, some no, larger buildings normally don't. And scaling a fire escape takes a.. Fair bit longer than just leaping a building. Seconds matter in combat.
It is unlikely for em to jump up to the top of a highrise. They could totally jump through a window in a highrise though.
We do not currently have anything that permits leveling a military complex's walls. Though I will note that we should look into conventional artillery and ground air support. Also note that leveling the walls isn't always advantageous.
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In Xcom 2, sectoids which have been genetically modified with the use of human DNA making them stronger, like what we did to our own sectoids have 7 HP on the easiest difficulty, 8 on normal, which is the same as a viper. As I said before, a basic revolver pistol round can do 4 damage on a crit and normally does 3 to 2 damage. On harder difficulties, yes, the thinman has more health and yes, with long war they gain health, but extra health later on doesn't matter unless we decide to spend a revision on them to specifically give them that extra durability. And considering the human body, I think that they might need more then a bullet proof vest...
Xcom 2 Pectoids are sectoids whom have been receiving repeated and substantial tweaks for the better part of 20 years. Xcom 2's sectoids certainly have 8 hp, but ours do not. We haven't had 'twenty years' to tweak em. We've had a month.
I addressed the revolver earlier. Xcom2 revolvers are not available at the current time because they do not exist yet. Their current pistol is a 2 damage for 3 shots.
Thinmints are definitely not particularly durable compared to xcom 2 xenos for sure. Keep in mind though that xcom 2 xenos have had over two decades to be tweaked.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on December 31, 2017, 08:27:02 pm
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 08:50:42 pm
False. A pistol of the tier available to xcom by default in newcom1 cannot kill a thinman if the shot crits. 3 damage crit barring additional perks to increase damage. Which caps out at a 4 damage crit if they have the ranger perk to raise damage by 1. (Still not enough to kill.) Keep in mind that the default pistol fires three shots in a single attack and does total 2 damage in said attack. The cumulative effort of all three bullets is 2 damage. Which isn't even half the health of a default thinmint. Keep in mind that the weapons xcom has available to it lorewise by default are Top Of The Line. The best of the best. A civilian weapon would not compare, although it would probably still be able to kill with sufficient subsequent shots. In Xcom 2, the weapons xcom has available to it are more advanced, that revolver that sharpshooters get that does 4 damage? That's not a thing right now in this armsrace. Xcom 2 ballistics are Definitely flat better than the default ballistics in xcom 1 and that is due to tech advancement.Again I'm going off of xcom 2, and your big thing with that is that its xcom 2 so clearly the technology of gunpowder ballistics's has improved...
Yeah I highly doubt that...Considering advent rigged everything they had to blow up, and trying to use an advent mag rifle would result in you blowing up unless you are an advent soldier, and how the only humans to have gunpowder weapons would be rebels and those outside city centers I highly doubt much in the way of arms technology would be better then modern day tech. This is especially obvious considering the rifles used by resistance soldiers in the new terror missions only do 2 damage or 3 on a crit, less then the bloody revolver and what really puts the nail in the coffen for this is the simple fact that it's specifically mentioned the weapons you start out with are "leftover weapons from the original war" so calling it a weapon they don't have now is not exactly true. Also, you just proved my point, thinmen in normal unmodified xcom have 3 health on normal, and 4 on hard, which means that you can kill them with a pistol, easily when you have that ranger perk.
Also if we're talking about making a unit that can get shot and not care about being shot, we should be turning off pain or alternatively using robots. If a thinman gets shot, it'll be in pain, if a snek gets shot, it'll be in pain.We aren't we are talking about that, we are talking about making a snek that can get shot and be in pain vs a thinmint that can be shot and fall over dead...
Vipers are bigger than the average human, they need larger organs than a comparative thinmint. The likely location of most of said organs is certainly armored but they're still a significantly larger target. And the number of unarmored locations is.. Substantial if we're talking about armor. Thinmints do not by default have armor, however if they received armor, they would likely be about as durable as you'd expect an armored human combatant to be and then a bit more. Unarmored thinmints are equivalent in durability to an armored human.Considering the average human can survive getting shot five times with a rifle while a thinman can die from three pistol shots, or one leftover from the original war revolver bullet on anything but the hardest difficulty without mods, I would say that's frankly not true...
I will note that Vipers do have substantially different physiology compared to a human. Know those tails? That's all muscles and tendons and arteries. Imagine how having multiple bullet wounds inside your leg would feel? Imagine that, but you only have one big leg.And I didn't take this into account when I mentioned that most of the unarmored bits would just be their stomach and, at the front near the armour they have, the liver? Getting shot anywhere is bad, we get that and its bound to happen, but considering such a large target has the reflexes to partially dodge bullets, gauss, and plasma, I feel as if being a larger target isn't too much of a trade off for not crumpling over due to a single revolver shot... Besides, if you get shot anywhere, the stomach is the place you are most likely going to want to be hit to survive...or just the skin as a glancing shot...
Depends on the location. Some countries yes, some no, larger buildings normally don't. And scaling a fire escape takes a.. Fair bit longer than just leaping a building. Seconds matter in combat.Yeah, I expect something like that. And I know that seconds matter in combat, but really the trade off to be able to jump fairly high isn't worth it in my opinion. Besides, if we really want, we can just add a little tweak to our vipers and give them a boost in their tail mussles, after all, snakes can jump fairly high for their size, and considering nothing looking like a human should realistically have the ability to jump up even half the height thinmen can, I don't think it will be much of an issue.
It is unlikely for em to jump up to the top of a highrise. They could totally jump through a window in a highrise though.
We do not currently have anything that permits leveling a military complex's walls. Though I will note that we should look into conventional artillery and ground air support. Also note that leveling the walls isn't always advantageous.Glances to the plasma cannon we have on all of our UFO's Uhhmmmmmmm....Well, I wanted a bomber anyway....though Im sure a strafe with our current fighter would do well enough...
Xcom 2 Pectoids are sectoids whom have been receiving repeated and substantial tweaks for the better part of 20 years. Xcom 2's sectoids certainly have 8 hp, but ours do not. We haven't had 'twenty years' to tweak em. We've had a month.Well, thats obvious. If they where exact copies, they would be able to raise the dead with mind powers and mind control or induce panic into our enemy. But, we gave them only the physical attributes to humans. I would expect they would at least be somewhat more durable then they would be without the little upgrade we gave them... I addressed how you are wrong with the revolvers. I don't care what you say about them, if the Xcom 2 lore says its from the old war, its from the old war damnit! And, lastly, I do believe the Vipers are the least genetically changed in Xcom 2, considering how they are 100% extra terrestrial and not related to earth snakes at all despite the similarities...
I addressed the revolver earlier. Xcom2 revolvers are not available at the current time because they do not exist yet. Their current pistol is a 2 damage for 3 shots.
Thinmints are definitely not particularly durable compared to xcom 2 xenos for sure. Keep in mind though that xcom 2 xenos have had over two decades to be tweaked.
Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 09:28:59 pm
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Again I'm going off of xcom 2, and your big thing with that is that its xcom 2 so clearly the technology of gunpowder ballistics's has improved...
Yeah I highly doubt that...Considering advent rigged everything they had to blow up, and trying to use an advent mag rifle would result in you blowing up unless you are an advent soldier, and how the only humans to have gunpowder weapons would be rebels and those outside city centers I highly doubt much in the way of arms technology would be better then modern day tech. This is especially obvious considering the rifles used by resistance soldiers in the new terror missions only do 2 damage or 3 on a crit, less then the bloody revolver and what really puts the nail in the coffen for this is the simple fact that it's specifically mentioned the weapons you start out with are "leftover weapons from the original war" so calling it a weapon they don't have now is not exactly true. Also, you just proved my point, thinmen in normal unmodified xcom have 3 health on normal, and 4 on hard, which means that you can kill them with a pistol, easily when you have that ranger perk.
There are *plenty* of ways to make a gun better beyond 'just' gunpowder. Lets look at the technology available in x2 vs x1. X2 has access to numerous exotic materials, alloy is present in sufficient quantities that you could likely make quite a few things with it, you don't need to use the whole, rigged mag gun when the mag gun itself is built out of useful materials you can take and use elsewhere.
Do you see any revolvers in Xcom1's armory? No? Okay then. Those are definitely not from the 'old war.' Do you see the multiple differences in how the guns behave mechanically in both 1 and 2? Yes? Okay. That covers that point. The guns are not 'from the old war' The guns are new. They do more damage than their 'old war' counterparts, they're more effective, and they're accurate. The guns that resistance solders are a tad wishywashy in terms of how they behave. Damage ramps up based on months ingame. They are not accurate representations of damage.
..At no point did I say thinmints have 3 hp. I stated sectoids have 3hp. 4 on hard. I do know for a fact though that even on easy, thinmints have at least 4. Thinmints start with 4-5 last I checked. Although I have primarily been playing LW so I might be off. My point stands and I have not proven your point.
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We aren't we are talking about that, we are talking about making a snek that can get shot and be in pain vs a thinmint that can be shot and fall over dead...
You seem convinced that something with more hp than a human will fall over dead after being shot. Yes. Vipers do have significantly more health. Yes, that's due to decades of modification. Decades that we lack.
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Considering the average human can survive getting shot five times with a rifle while a thinman can die from three pistol shots, or one leftover from the original war revolver bullet on anything but the hardest difficulty without mods, I would say that's frankly not true...
Considering that the average human in xcom has 3 health and will die in three pistol shots, much less a burst from a Rifle. I would say that this point is invalid.
Quote
And I didn't take this into account when I mentioned that most of the unarmored bits would just be their stomach and, at the front near the armour they have, the liver? Getting shot anywhere is bad, we get that and its bound to happen, but considering such a large target has the reflexes to partially dodge bullets, gauss, and plasma, I feel as if being a larger target isn't too much of a trade off for not crumpling over due to a single revolver shot... Besides, if you get shot anywhere, the stomach is the place you are most likely going to want to be hit to survive...or just the skin as a glancing shot...
I don't know what reality yer from but where I'm from, gut shots are lethal as fuck. Lotta important arteries there, digestive system is there and can leak, the ribcage is not there to reduce damage. The belly is fragile as fuck. You won't die 'instantly' like if you got hit in the brain or heart but you'll be incapacitated by pain and shock and frankly you Will die without immediate medical attention. If you want to be hit and not die without immediate medical attention? Forearms and forelegs. That's about it. Anywhere else and you're likely to hit an artery.
Quote
Yeah, I expect something like that. And I know that seconds matter in combat, but really the trade off to be able to jump fairly high isn't worth it in my opinion. Besides, if we really want, we can just add a little tweak to our vipers and give them a boost in their tail mussles, after all, snakes can jump fairly high for their size, and considering nothing looking like a human should realistically have the ability to jump up even half the height thinmen can, I don't think it will be much of an issue.Vipers are incapable of jumping. Also I'd rather use something with 'legs.' Legs are more mobile and provide better platform stability.
Quote
Glances to the plasma cannon we have on all of our UFO's Uhhmmmmmmm....Well, I wanted a bomber anyway....though Im sure a strafe with our current fighter would do well enough...Looks at the post of Ebbor's that stated we don't have any way to provide ground fire support with our ufo's. Uhm.... Yes. We do need a bomber. We are unable to strafe according to WOG. For 'reasons.' Fuck if I know why.
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 09:54:30 pm
There are *plenty* of ways to make a gun better beyond 'just' gunpowder. Lets look at the technology available in x2 vs x1. X2 has access to numerous exotic materials, alloy is present in sufficient quantities that you could likely make quite a few things with it, you don't need to use the whole, rigged mag gun when the mag gun itself is built out of useful materials you can take and use elsewhere.Yeah, they could be made out of alien materials, but considering they are specifically stated they are left over from the old war at most, they are modified, which I doubt considering you can only modify them with specific things you gain from aliens, and you cant modify the revolver outside replacing it with a magnetic or plasma version. Also, this is going off the first month, and disregarding everything in Xcom 2 sounds fairly biased to your point of view seeing how the damage that 'ramps up' in my experience, only happens when you spend time working on a breakthrough to increase the damage of particular weapons by 1 point permanently...
Do you see any revolvers in Xcom1's armory? No? Okay then. Those are definitely not from the 'old war.' Do you see the multiple differences in how the guns behave mechanically in both 1 and 2? Yes? Okay. That covers that point. The guns are not 'from the old war' The guns are new. They do more damage than their 'old war' counterparts, they're more effective, and they're accurate. The guns that resistance solders are a tad wishywashy in terms of how they behave. Damage ramps up based on months ingame. They are not accurate representations of damage.
..At no point did I say thinmints have 3 hp. I stated sectoids have 3hp. 4 on hard. I do know for a fact though that even on easy, thinmints have at least 4. Thinmints start with 4-5 last I checked. Although I have primarily been playing LW so I might be off. My point stands and I have not proven your point.You didn't, but on easy and normal, unmodified easy and normal to be exact, they have 3 hp, on hard, 4, on impossible, 6. This is without mods like long war which the GM stated specifically not to know much about, so yeah...
You seem convinced that something with more hp than a human will fall over dead after being shot. Yes. Vipers do have significantly more health. Yes, that's due to decades of modification. Decades that we lack.This is going off the assumption that this is 100% long war or Xcom set on impossible difficulty, which its not. Again, Thinmen have 3 hitpoints on normal, the same as a sectoid.
Considering that the average human in xcom has 3 health and will die in three pistol shots, much less a burst from a Rifle. I would say that this point is invalid.same as a thinman on normal or easy. So, yeah, its invalid...
I don't know what reality yer from but where I'm from, gut shots are lethal as fuck. Lotta important arteries there, digestive system is there and can leak, the ribcage is not there to reduce damage. The belly is fragile as fuck. You won't die 'instantly' like if you got hit in the brain or heart but you'll be incapacitated by pain and shock and frankly you Will die without immediate medical attention. If you want to be hit and not die without immediate medical attention? Forearms and forelegs. That's about it. Anywhere else and you're likely to hit an artery.I mean, I'm going off of pistol bullets, but yeah, getting shot anywhere is bad period. Thats just comon sense. Though the point is a bit mute considering they now have some kind of better ballistics, maybe gauss. I also presume the logic you are using is for basic humans in this case, in which, getting hit in the arm, sholder, leg, and so in is just as lethal as anywhere else considering arteries...And of course there is the thing that aliens which probably have less pain receptors due to modification and considering that Vipers aren't related to earth snakes, have suspicious venom glands, and so on, might just have the tail completely solid for all we know not having a stomach or anything...
Vipers are incapable of jumping. Also I'd rather use something with 'legs.' Legs are more mobile and provide better platform stability.Yeah, that doesnt mean we cant make them capable of jumping. As for wanting legs, that's fair I guess.
Looks at the post of Ebbor's that stated we don't have any way to provide ground fire support with our ufo's. Uhm.... Yes. We do need a bomber. We are unable to strafe according to WOG. For 'reasons.' Fuck if I know why.Probably need to either make a tactic to use the fighter to support ground combat, or just make the cannons less destructive or...something. Hell if I know.
Post by: ~Neri on December 31, 2017, 10:56:09 pm
I suspect that air support would require dedicated weaponry/craft to be honest. Though that's assuming that the craft in question is 'conventional.' UFO's are anything but. Like. They can hover for fucks sakes. Not really sure what's stopping em from just. Sorta. Shooting.
Post by: piratejoe on December 31, 2017, 11:59:34 pm
Anyway I think we really only need a tactic for using our fighter for ground support. We probably could also make a bomber of some sort with a very powerful plasma cannon at the bottom for bombing, which we might be able to use to bomb important things, like military facilities. Might be better to strike terror from the skies then from the ground, even if the ground would probably be more thorough.
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 01:18:06 am
The issue with using the fighter for ground support is the fighter has fixed plasma cannons last I checked. Honestly our scouts would be better for it with their swivel cannon
Though a dedicated bomber'd be nice. Nothing says 'Your government can't protect you' like a singular burst of plasma that levels several blocks and ignites the atmosphere.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 01, 2018, 02:57:41 am
Post by: piratejoe on January 01, 2018, 03:14:17 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 01, 2018, 07:04:45 am
Quote
In anticipation of the need for an infiltration unit, we looked all through our DNA banks to find something suitable, we found one. A creature we called the Faceless. It was capable of perfectly replicating the physical form of a being(just one) it took in the DNA of. Unfortunately, this was simply infeasible to reproduce with our current resources. Therefore, we took what we could from that base, and merged in the next best thing, we have introduced the DNA of a mimic octopus into the mix. The Skin Crawlers take a shape like its octopus side by default, with a faceless' head instead of the normal bulbous one of octopi. They have a set of eight tentacles, each of which are four inches thick at their base and 1.5 at their tip lined on their underside with suction cups, the tentacles each end a few inches early in a set of three short, viciously clawed digits kept from the faceless, these allow it to form hands, it braids two tentacles around eachother to form each individual limb, this makes them twice as strong as average, but obviously inhuman when not covered. A Skin Crawlers intelligence is equal to sectoids on a general level, but it has extra enhancements dedicated to social interaction and language, it still struggles to manage "slang" however. It cannot manage the perfect replication its the faceless could, but it can pretty much perfectly mimic human skin and hair colors in addition to the mimic octopus' ability to mimic the color of the ground around it, and can use the faceless shape altering to replicate a human face fairly accurately, but it remains somewhat in the "uncanny valley" as humans call it, the main problem is it can only do one expression at a time, bigger changes like for talking or going from open smile to large frown are awkward, but the smaller, subtler ones are well within its capacity. It has vocal chords, and can speak relatively well despite its face problems, albeit rather monotone.Hard : 3 + 3 - 1 = 5 (Average) 2 Tokens used : Benefit
Its physical strength is above human levels, however its lack of bones makes carrying heavy objects very hard(hauling along the ground works though). It can hold objects and is capable of precise manipulation on the level of any human.
In combat meanwhile, it can shed its disguise(basically just slipping out of its clothes) and then bloat itself up into a giant octopoid creature, carrying itself around rapidly on its clawed tentacles. It can technically hold and wield a gun with each tentacle, but needs to use two at a time to keep them steady. Its unarmed tentacles can be lashed around rapidly and, due to the faceless' elastic skin, stretch long distances to slash and grab at nearby enemies with vicious claws. It can also use the tentacles for climbing with its suction cups and to grab enemies in a tight grip and rip their weapons from their hands. Its mimic octopus camouflage lets it blend in effortlessly with the color and texture of its surroundings, however it can't wear armor if it is to do so, as such a thing would immediately give it away.
Typically a Skin Crawler wears a generic black suit outfit in disguise, and is equipped with a plasma pistol in addition to its primary weapon(even if said weapon is a plasma pistol).
In it's base form, the Skin Crawler looks like a large, seemingly molten octopus. This gelatinous nature allows the Skin Crawler to change it's shape, making it fully capable of mimicking a range human facial and body structures. It's mimic octopus skin is remarkably effective in rapidly changing coloration and appearance, allowing it not only to look like humans, but also serving a feasible sort of active camouflage, though it's not perfect. Combined with a mostly human speech center and an enlarged, brain the Skin Crawler should be capable of passing as human under casual inspection.
When detected, it can use the claws attached to it's 8 limbs as a dangerous weapon against unarmed opponents, or wield most handheld weaponry in one or more (usually more) tentacles.
Integration of human DNA has allowed us to create a digestive and immune system capable of surviving for prolonged amounts on time on the surface. This allows us to preposition and infiltrate units near mission sites.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design Phase
Challenge : Write a (short) excerpt on any of the recent battles from any perspective. (Reward : ??? + 1 unrestricted token)
Turn 4 Start
AABBCCDD
[/quote]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 01, 2018, 07:12:59 am
Skin Crawler : An infiltrator unit capable of mimicking human form (more or less). Has 8 claw equiped tentacles and is capable of using most handheld technologies.So, hang on. Does this mean we could launch Recruit missions without having to send any craft on them?
Cost 2 UP (+1 UP if infiltrated [Infiltrated units require no transportation, but can not use equipment]
Because if so, holy shit, undetectable missions.
Or do we have to send at least one non-infiltrated unit on a mission?
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 01, 2018, 07:16:04 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 01, 2018, 07:22:40 am
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@10ebbor10 with the ECM "deceiving" ability, can we send a Small UFO with the ECM and make it portray as a larger UFO to scare Xcom or something like that?
Sure.
Do keep in mind that with your current ECM, you can't actually navigate while having the system active.
Quote
Because if so, holy shit, undetectable missions.
Infiltration is not a guaranteed success.
Also, yeah, you do need to assign at least 1 non-infiltrated unit. (Otherwise my system would get quite broken).
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 01, 2018, 07:25:18 am
Ah. What sort of risks are there? Can the insertion itself be detected, or is there a chance of infiltrators being discovered before the mission?QuoteBecause if so, holy shit, undetectable missions.
Infiltration is not a guaranteed success.
Edit:
Also, yeah, you do need to assign at least 1 non-infiltrated unit. (Otherwise my system would get quite broken).Yeah, that makes sense. Much as I would like it to be otherwise, it would be rather unbalanced.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 01, 2018, 07:50:11 am
Quote
Ah. What sort of risks are there? Can the insertion itself be detected, or is there a chance of infiltrators being discovered before the mission?
Slim chance of being discovered before mission.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 01, 2018, 07:59:37 am
Quote from: Plan A:Hiding Out in the Outback
Spend 2 UP Tokens on Skin Crawlers.This is the simplest, brute-forciest plan. Two Medium Fighters take out any XCOM interceptors, and if we're lucky Skyrangers as well (which presumably is a possibility, otherwise XCOM would never need to send Interceptors at all, since they could just wait for us to land and send in endless Skyrangers). Two squads of grenade-equipped Sectoids take care of any XCOM soldiers who do manage to interfere, whilst our infiltrated Skin Crawlers take care of the actual mission.Quote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators.
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (Free), 2 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 2xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Skin Crawlers, Infiltrated (6-2=4UP)
Destination: Australia
Quote from: Plan B:Totally A Regular Harvest Mission
Spend 2 UP Tokens on Skin Crawlers.This is a riskier plan, which we should only do if we reckon upgraded ECM will guarantee aerial victory. The single Medium fighter and the three Small Scouts would take out XCOM's aerial presence, as with the first plan. But whereas XCOM will realise that something strange is afoot with Plan A when they receive no reports of increased Panic or missing civilians, with Plan B they will hear all about how we kidnapped people as usual, and Australia's Panic will rise- just a regular Harvest Mission, to their eyes. They would have no reason to suspect that we had also recruited collaborators.Quote from: Mission 1Mission Type: Harvest
Craft(s): 2 Small Scout (1+0=1VP), 1 Medium fighter (2VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 1xElerium Grenade, 1xMeld Container) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Scout Drone (2UP)
Destination: AustraliaQuote from: Mission 2Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (1VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Skin Crawler (4xPlasma Pistols) (4-2=2UP)
Destination: Australia
(ebbor, would the deception of Plan B even work? Would XCOM detect two missions or one?)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 01, 2018, 08:06:02 am
Quote
(ebbor, would the deception of Plan B even work? Would XCOM detect two missions or one?)
They'd see 2 missions, and need to send 2 different groups of planes to intercept either.
That said, I don't understand your math. Where are you getting the -2's from?
Post by: TopHat on January 01, 2018, 08:10:36 am
EDIT - the -2s come from token use, I believe.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 01, 2018, 08:11:40 am
I guess the Plan involves spending two Unit Tokens to give us 2 points worth of Skin Crawlers per turn?
Post by: TopHat on January 01, 2018, 08:21:48 am
Post by: Failbird105 on January 01, 2018, 08:34:29 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 01, 2018, 10:09:33 am
That said, I don't understand your math. Where are you getting the -2's from?
Spend 2 UP Tokens on Skin Crawlers.
Anyway, since we cannot make two missions appear to be one, Plan B is out. Plan A will almost certainly work, but XCOM would know that something was up.
We could still do plan A, since Recruit Collaborators rolled really well, and the description suggests it will be hard for XCOM to root out our allies.
Or we could just do a regular harvest mission, and leave RC until we have stealth tech for our craft as well.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 01, 2018, 10:46:32 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 01, 2018, 11:31:00 am
Quote
Is it the same number if we infiltrate them in?
Yes.
Post by: piratejoe on January 01, 2018, 11:41:47 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 01, 2018, 11:50:38 am
Normal : 4 + 3 (Superior craftmanship)The bolded sentence suggests to me that XCOM would have a hard time rooting out our allies. Even if they did manage to do so, it would presumably take away resources from their other efforts.
With gifts of wealth, knowledge or through the sheer power of the Truth, we should be able to make humanity see the light. Their help will go a long way to making the rest of humanity recognize our superiority, allowing us to help them exploit the Gift. Thanks to XCOM and humanities outmoded ideals, they can no do this in the open, they'll have to act from the shadows. As such, we aim to create a heavily compartmentalized high level infiltration of human society, secured against eventual losses or even partial discovery.
The general focus of this strategy is therefore on subterfuge and stealth. Units are covertly inserted near target locations, and make their way then to the collaborators. There, they will negotiate, delivering the required goods as needed and agreed up. Extraction via UFO follows later. If attacked, the primary focus is to obfuscate the purpose of the meeting, keeping XCOM busy while allowing collaborators to escape.
This strategy relies primarily on subterfuges. Species that can infiltrate society, and small, high speed UFO's are therefore best suited.
As such, I'm going to vote for Plan A, with fixed/improved ECM as our revision.
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: piratejoe on January 01, 2018, 12:05:51 pm
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (2) NUKE9.13, PiratejoeReady to fire!...Now, lets get this over with so we can go back to plotting and waiting for Xcom.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 01, 2018, 12:36:03 pm
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105
Post by: Puppyguard on January 01, 2018, 02:44:58 pm
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (4) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 01, 2018, 04:34:05 pm
Just suggesting to change plan a destination
to Japan, as we have proof of xcom being far away from it.
Otherwise + 1 to plan A.
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 04:38:35 pm
Quote from: votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (5) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Kevak.
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 01, 2018, 05:16:10 pm
ECM 2
By fine tuning and overhauling the ECM model we place in our craft, we can now operate ECM while maintaining our crafts' maneuverability. Additionally, we increase the range of the false electronic signature, allowing our UFO's to masquerade as much larger and more dangerous craft than before.
So, if this works, we could presumably send a single Light Fighter using ECM to pretend to be a City-Glassing level craft, and trick them into sending overwhelming force against a RUSE! Haha! Meanwhile the rest of our guys cover more ground.
Quote from: votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (6) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Kevak, SamSpeeds
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 05:38:46 pm
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 01, 2018, 05:51:09 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 06:38:17 pm
@Ebbor. How would we go about boosting permanent VP/UP?
Post by: Failbird105 on January 01, 2018, 06:43:21 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 07:22:12 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 01, 2018, 07:46:50 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 07:53:18 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 01, 2018, 08:40:59 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 01, 2018, 09:00:23 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 02, 2018, 03:26:04 am
We really really should boost VP and UP when we can.
@Ebbor. How would we go about boosting permanent VP/UP?
Creating bases, or making one design that improves this stuff.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 02, 2018, 04:49:35 am
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 02, 2018, 11:37:16 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It sucks I know but was rushed by real world stuff.
Post by: piratejoe on January 02, 2018, 02:44:30 pm
Spoiler: Jackson Mayfeild's Journal, entry 144 (click to show/hide)
Probably too long, but I don't care.
Post by: ~Neri on January 02, 2018, 03:01:59 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 02, 2018, 03:07:20 pm
They already have the power of creating electromagnetically propelled cannons on their sea ships, and when you combine the research power of all of the super powers, while also considering that they are on the brink of death for the civilization that might push a scientist or two; they could plausibly railguns and coilguns with enough effort, but it won't certainly be easy.
Which as shown, with enough effort it has pushed the humans. Great for advancing the humans to the psionic standards of the Ethereals for being inhabited?...
Post by: ~Neri on January 02, 2018, 03:33:15 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 02, 2018, 03:47:17 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 02, 2018, 03:52:41 pm
In all honesty, that's a little.. Odd? A token is = to a group of human abducties in this case. If we use those abducties for tests and experiments, by no means should more abducties magically form out of nowhere. Same goes for our other tokens. By no means should shit magically reform from nowhere. Similarly. Xcom presumably has alloy/meld/elerium tokens, by no means are those in infinite supply.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 02, 2018, 04:05:44 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 02, 2018, 04:14:41 pm
Quote
arbor does not want to track all avaible resources
Very much this.
1 token gives a benefit once that lasts forever. Minimal tracking for me.
Post by: TopHat on January 03, 2018, 02:42:02 pm
Spoiler: Plan C; Three tendrils (click to show/hide)
Rationale: With a completed ECM revision, our craft should be pretty much safe from X-Com fighters for a turn until they develop a counter (and they will); I'd like to take advantage of that. The recruit mission should be completely fine, same as the current plan, unless X-Com throws everything at it in which case our chances will only be a little worse than currently and we get free reign across South America. At least one harvest is in my opinion likely to succeed, so it seems to me worth trying despite the fairly high chance of failure.
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (6) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Kevak, SamSpeeds
Plan C: Three Tendrils: (1) TopHat
EDIT - Turns out I missed a basic maths error; one set of grenades ditched.
EDIT 2 - Drone cost typo fixed to EP rather than VP; grenade cost added.
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 03, 2018, 03:18:22 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 03, 2018, 03:34:11 pm
It's probably too late, but here's my mission proposal.Spoiler: Plan C; Three tendrils (click to show/hide)
Rationale: With a completed ECM revision, our craft should be pretty much safe from X-Com fighters for a turn until they develop a counter (and they will); I'd like to take advantage of that. The recruit mission should be completely fine, same as the current plan, unless X-Com throws everything at it in which case our chances will only be a little worse than currently and we get free reign across South America. At least one harvest is in my opinion likely to succeed, so it seems to me worth trying despite the fairly high chance of failure.Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (6) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Kevak, SamSpeeds
Plan C: Three Tendrils: (1) TopHat
EDIT - Turns out I missed a basic maths error; one set of grenades ditched.
EDIT 2 - Drone cost typo fixed to EP rather than VP; grenade cost added.
We did not get wiped previous time only due to sudden boom grenade trick.
Splitting our stuff lets xcom have 2 possible easy victories.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 03:35:51 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 03:43:57 pm
Quote from: Votes
Plan A: Hiding Out in the Outback: (7) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Failbird105, Puppyguard, Kevak, SamSpeeds Tyrant Leviathan
Plan C: Three Tendrils: (1) TopHat
Post by: ~Neri on January 03, 2018, 04:09:09 pm
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 03, 2018, 04:13:30 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 03, 2018, 04:26:25 pm
Post by: TopHat on January 03, 2018, 04:51:58 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 03, 2018, 04:55:06 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 04:57:39 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 03, 2018, 05:01:05 pm
Would need WOG that it wouldn't be trivially trashed the same way mechs would.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 05:02:55 pm
Post by: TopHat on January 03, 2018, 05:03:46 pm
NinjaEdit: If they chuck everything at one of our scouts the other two missions get off scot free, and the odds of the scout being captured are in my opinion quite slim. Two successful missions and one failure sounds like a very good ratio to me.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 03, 2018, 05:05:04 pm
I think we should expand our VP/UP reserves.you mean VP/EP right? As is we have enough UP to fill three scouts with sectoids and drones, and three tokens that can each grant us 1 UP worth of a unit every turn.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 05:14:59 pm
Carbine, Rifle, Lance (sniper Rifle,) Heavy Support, alloy based shotgun, and a mini gun version of cannon for Mutons/sectoids. Maybe have modular beams that can be bazookas too.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 03, 2018, 05:22:28 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 05:35:50 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 03, 2018, 08:38:38 pm
Drone Hive
A large, podlike machine designed to house and control multiple small groups of "Swarm Drones". Small very simple and unarmored drones that are worthless alone but dangerous in groups. They come in three types, a stun type, a saw type, and an explosive type. The stun variety has the electric stun unit of our scout drones, the saw variety has a brutal energy enhanced buzzsaw, and the explosive variety act as micro-missiles or remote mines and are basically just grenades that fly.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 03, 2018, 08:56:20 pm
Bloat Pod
By taking the dna of the Chrysslid and storing their eggs within a tiny life support statsis pod, these pod shape drones fly across battle field with combat tentacles, said contact injects unfortunate target with chrysslid and in doing so jump starts the breeds cycle for them.
Yep, flying drone for alien injections. My take on terror weapon.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 04, 2018, 10:03:41 am
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 11:49:10 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 04, 2018, 12:16:24 pm
Quote
Mission 1
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators.
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (Free), 2 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 2xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Skin Crawlers, Infiltrated (6-2=4UP)
Destination: Australia
Mission launched
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision Phase
Challenge : Write a (short) excerpt on any of the recent battles from any perspective. (Reward : ??? + 1 unrestricted token)
Turn 4
AABBCCDD
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 04, 2018, 12:28:20 pm
Quote
ECM Generation 2.0:
Our current form of electric countermeasures against the enemy's radar and guided system is too ill-effective to have any actual usage for our combat crafts. The main improvement we done with an entire rework of our ECM is that it can be activated for any time during aerial combat without inhibiting our ships from having to move in subsonic speed in a straight line. The integration of this technology into the flight computer rather than it being a simple deviation from the technology, is that both the ECM and flight computer can work in conjunction with each other allows them to function in tandem allowing both to be activated in the same time. Future modification have also went into the radar distraction in which we can make a smaller ufo appear as a larger one by creating a false or amplified electrical signature. This will allow our ufos to masquerade as a larger craft, there has been minimal effort in even allowing a craft to condense their electrical signature to appear smaller on radar, but not in the visible light sense. However this isn't the priority of the revision, but rather to make sure the ECM and the flight computer can work in conjunction is the main thing that needs to be addressed.
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 04, 2018, 12:38:38 pm
My own drone
Bloat Pod
By taking the dna of the Chrysslid and storing their eggs within a tiny life support statsis pod, these pod shape drones fly across battle field with combat tentacles, said contact injects unfortunate target with chrysslid and in doing so jump starts the breeds cycle for them.
Yep, flying drone for alien injections. My take on terror weapon.
Eh, I think it would be easier and more effective to just make regular Chryssalids.
If you want better lids, do the thing I posted.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Failbird105 on January 04, 2018, 02:58:14 pm
Quote from: revisions
ECM Generation 2.0: (2) Shadowclaw, Failbird105@shadowclaw I'm assuming you're voting for your own proposal as well.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 03:04:27 pm
Quote from: revisionsECM Generation 2.0: (3) Shadowclaw, Failbird105 Tyrant Leviathan
Post by: Puppyguard on January 04, 2018, 04:34:27 pm
Quote from: revisions
ECM Generation 2.0: (4) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Tyrant Leviathan, Puppyguard
Post by: piratejoe on January 04, 2018, 05:15:48 pm
Quote from: revisions
ECM Generation 2.0: (5) Shadowclaw, Failbird105, Tyrant Leviathan, Puppyguard, PiratejoeNot really a Contest...
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 05:34:48 pm
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 04, 2018, 05:36:31 pm
Can't go wrong with that.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 05:38:29 pm
Xeno-Hydralid?
Can't go wrong with that.
Well the true issue is to Armor our troops and when. Terror units are handy but we also need bases and stuff.
Post by: piratejoe on January 04, 2018, 05:40:39 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 05:44:52 pm
If we get new troops, we should get Vipers or Mutons. Or at least try to get them. Both of them have armour so...you know. If we want new robotic troops, Seekers or Cyberdisks.
Yeah I was considering Mutons or the home brewed chimeras with muton in gene pool for muton mutants with a light healing factor. But to keep it simple. Mutons. Need tough soldiers who can use gear. Got idea about armor, put probably just Mutons.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 04, 2018, 05:58:23 pm
Post by: TopHat on January 04, 2018, 06:01:35 pm
I'll post my thoughts on our designs and strategy for the next turn or two tomorrow when I've had time to think it over a bit. In my opinion we really should decide on a short-term goal (e.g. gain capacity to launch terror missions / set up a first surface base on earth / cause a country to withdraw from X-Com) to work towards, rather than the current system of designing whatever seems to be in the most immediate need. A ground unit capable of matching X-Com's troops seems like an integral part of most of these, though the details of the unit may well be informed by the goal we choose.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 04, 2018, 06:10:04 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 06:16:34 pm
And I had idea of a under water mobile base. Main logic is al x Com Weapons are for shooting stuff down, not directly bombing the ground.
But I figure we need vast cloaking tech and large ship chassis for that to be feasible.
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 04, 2018, 06:18:12 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 04, 2018, 06:21:48 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 04, 2018, 06:47:57 pm
I see your worries and have revised the ECM 2.0 to state that the priority of the revision is to have functional jamming technology while working with the flight computer, but a secondary focus on messing with electrical signature whether amplifying or de-amplifying the craft is still a thing that can be worked on but it is prioritized secondarily.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 04, 2018, 06:50:16 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 06:55:32 am
However, I have another idea for a goal: Build up a sturdy and useful human ally group. Something that can help us pull off infiltration missions and give us an influence from the inside.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 05, 2018, 06:47:42 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 07:04:38 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 05, 2018, 07:10:56 pm
Basically it really is left open-ended on purpose, and your asking the wrong person on what we should specialize. It's really logical into trying to convert Brazil into our authority. But terror missions sound so cool! Maybe panic Brazil so hard with terror missions?.
Also before I forget more Vehicle Production points would be nice, a UFO Construction Wing that is near our Base, perhaps?
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 07:34:53 pm
Also, we kinda need to vote more, we've gone this entire day without a single new vote.
Post by: piratejoe on January 05, 2018, 07:40:23 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 07:50:30 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 05, 2018, 07:59:10 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 05, 2018, 08:05:55 pm
Secondly, instead of the Mutons didn't you propose the Reavers?, which were based off my Sangheli Elite-horrible creation? I mean scary physical humanoid apes prone to rage and damage survival is all nice, but the reavers have two core ideas in them. Mantis/Reptilian knowledge gives them great assets in combat, whether we give them giant scythes as secondary Arms to rip people in half, armored exoskeletons, or the super tactical knowledge we can give them. It just seems more... uh original to us if we utilize the Mantis/Reptile SEAL commandos, than the mutons for our frontline unit.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 08:40:04 pm
Well I'm pretty sure that terror missions have one sole purpose, and that's providing panic points to a country. You would utilize them in conjunction with a infiltration strategy, first to take over and indoctrinate their leaders, than completely terrorizing a country into submission. Successful terror missions don't destroy the enemy countries, but rather they make a country fear that the Xcom project is useless and so they submit to us.From a mechanical sense yes they do provide panic points to a country, however do you really think you would trust somebody who was going around making you country into a real life horror movie? The entire point of making allies is to gain the support of the human population, the entire purpose of terror missions, beyond the purely mechanical sense, is to terrify the humans into giving up, if we terrorize the same country we intend to recruit, then we will lose at least a large portion of the benefits from doing any recruiting.
Secondly, instead of the Mutons didn't you propose the Reavers?, which were based off my Sangheli Elite-horrible creation? I mean scary physical humanoid apes prone to rage and damage survival is all nice, but the reavers have two core ideas in them. Mantis/Reptilian knowledge gives them great assets in combat, whether we give them giant scythes as secondary Arms to rip people in half, armored exoskeletons, or the super tactical knowledge we can give them. It just seems more... uh original to us if we utilize the Mantis/Reptile SEAL commandos, than the mutons for our frontline unit.
Put another way, we can increase panic without doing terror missions that will inspire mass fear, mistrust, and hatred in the humans. Our normal missions will do this as well, but not to the point that inflicting fates worse than death on entire cities for what looks like shits and giggles to the average person would. Meanwhile we can't recruit human allies without explicitly trying to
As for the Reavers, yes, I made a heavily Earth DNA based design when we had tokens that gave us a direct benefit for using Earth DNA to make our designs, because that was the only way I believe such a design wouldn't have a major detriment to their design roll, Mutons meanwhile are explicitly mentioned in the OP as something we have encountered, and thus most likely used, and therefor will probably be normal difficulty or hard at the most to reproduce.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 05, 2018, 08:53:46 pm
Quote from: Brute
Humans have more going for them than just being the most intelligent native on the planet. They also have an impressive constituition and endurance. By taking a baseline human and improving it with excerpts of Muton DNA, we are able to massively enhance the specimen's physical strength and endurance further. Subdermal armour plates are implanted over the centre of mass to increase endurance yet more. Additional armour can be worn as needed.
This should produce a front line soldier capable of enduring the attentions of XCom operatives and dish out in kind. The basis of human DNA should also allow them to pass as gym fanatics to the casual observer, making them suitable back up on recruitment missions.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 05, 2018, 09:07:36 pm
I'm marginally opposed to just making XCom units, because that's boring. However I appreciate the need for a combat focused unit, so let me propose the following:I like it, I like it. I'm left feeling unsure of its difficulty however, since it's relatively minor changes, yet also a relatively versatile unit lacking in any real weakness.Quote from: BruteHumans have more going for them than just being the most intelligent native on the planet. They also have an impressive constituition and endurance. By taking a baseline human and improving it with excerpts of Muton DNA, we are able to massively enhance the specimen's physical strength and endurance further. Subdermal armour plates are implanted over the centre of mass to increase endurance yet more. Additional armour can be worn as needed.
This should produce a front line soldier capable of enduring the attentions of XCom operatives and dish out in kind. The basis of human DNA should also allow them to pass as gym fanatics to the casual observer, making them suitable back up on recruitment missions.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 05, 2018, 09:12:10 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 06, 2018, 01:17:30 am
My next idea was the Chmiera, juggernaut configuration. In which Muton Betserker, with Amphibian and bug dna. For armor, leaping, berserk charges, and slight healing factor. ( Because some amphibians can do that.)
But I never vote my own ideas, never again anyway.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 06, 2018, 05:04:25 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7654562#msg7654562 (NUKE9.13)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7657473#msg7657473 (Tyrant Leviathan)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7657565#msg7657565 (piratejoe)
Post by: piratejoe on January 06, 2018, 05:07:41 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 06, 2018, 05:50:43 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 06, 2018, 06:24:10 pm
Quote
Our current form of electric countermeasures against the enemy's radar and guided system is too ill-effective to have any actual usage for our combat crafts. The main improvement we done with an entire rework of our ECM is that it can be activated for any time during aerial combat without inhibiting our ships from having to move in subsonic speed in a straight line. The integration of this technology into the flight computer rather than it being a simple deviation from the technology, is that both the ECM and flight computer can work in conjunction with each other allows them to function in tandem allowing both to be activated in the same time. Future modification have also went into the radar distraction in which we can make a smaller ufo appear as a larger one by creating a false or amplified electrical signature. This will allow our ufos to masquerade as a larger craft, there has been minimal effort in even allowing a craft to condense their electrical signature to appear smaller on radar, but not in the visible light sense. However this isn't the priority of the revision, but rather to make sure the ECM and the flight computer can work in conjunction is the main thing that needs to be addressed.Easy : 3+1+1 = 5 Average
The new ECM system does what it's supposed to do. No fancy cloacking circuits, no violent energy feedbacks, no sudden loss of flight control. It simply decieves missiles, and manipulates radar signatures. With the system online we should see a significant reduction in the enemy missile accuracy, decreasing their fighters effectiveness by as much as 50%. As a secundary feature, we can boost our ships radar signatures, making it appear far more threathening than it actually is. However, emissions strengthened in such way will be far easier to spot.
Battle
Quote
Mission 1
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators.
Craft(s): 1 Small Scout (Free), 2 Medium fighter (4VP)
Unit loadout: 2 Sectoid (2xPlasma Pistols, 2xElerium Grenade) (2UP, 2EP)
2 Skin Crawlers, Infiltrated (6-2=4UP)
Destination: Australia
Insertion goes off without a hitch. Under cover of darkness, a small Scout drops of 2 groups of meticulously suited Skin Crawlers, who carefully make their way into town. After succesfully navigating such intracies of human life as crossing roads, opening doors and ordering a drink in a pub, they manage to make contact with our first possible collaborator.
Mister Tamsyn, senior level research director in one of Australia's largest energy corporations. A man smart enough to recognize what the capabilities of your crafts truly represent, and what great wealth could be gained from it. He's you way into Australia's economy, and from there, the rest of the country. Negotiations are swift and occur with little interference. There's a small moment of fright when a sectoid drops in through the hotel window, but after overcoming his initial suprise Tamsyn appears to be more fascinated than horrified. With negotiations concluded, both sides part ways, and not a moment too soon.
XCOM arrives in force just as Smal UFO is dropping in to evacuate the sectoids. With no more point in stealth, the UFO sets course straight for the town, landing in a central Plaza. High above 2 Ravens and 2 Medium fighters engage. Not wanting to be suprised this time, the Ravens immediatly fire their missiles, two volleys of 6 flying towards the fighters. ECM systems activate, and the majority of the missiles loose lock, flying of into the sky. Two still hit their target, biting into light armor and destroying some redundant systems.
Curiously, the Raven's do not fire a second salvo, closing in instead. A deadly close range exchange is the result, plasma fire tearing through the two Raven's. But the medium fighters do not escape unscatched, having suffered several armor penetrations. Were there used to be additional missiles, the Terrans had instead fitted some kind of pods that launched shells with tremendous velocity. They only got to fire a few, but each tore 2 nice holes through the ship.
On the ground, the situation is not much better. XCOM is deploying in force, 3 Skyrangers dropping of troops through the city. Worse, the Skyrangers then take up overwatch positions in the sky. The light UFO opens fire and manages to disable one, before they suddenly retaliate. Pods, fitted underneath the craft fire high speed projectiles which tear through the UFO's hull, disabling it.
With 2 Skyrangers overhead, and a full 3 human squads on the move, the Sectoids stand little chance. One by one they're picked of at range, too far away to use their grenades or the gift. Railgun slugs pierce through or blow up cover untill none remain.
The Skin crawlers are more succesfull. Disguised as humans or scenery, they twice manage to lead XCOM into a trap, tearing through the enemy at close range with their vicious tentacleclaws. Once the element of suprise is gone however, they get put down at range.
Mission Succes : Team lost Australia now lightly infiltrated
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design Phase
Challenge award : Later
Info : We're detecting unusual psionic activity from the planet. The signal was very weak and could not be located, but it was definitively there.
Turn 5
AABBCCDD
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 06:42:10 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 06, 2018, 06:46:40 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 06:49:56 pm
I'm not sure what happened to the fighters.
Post by: piratejoe on January 06, 2018, 06:52:08 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 06:53:58 pm
Post by: piratejoe on January 06, 2018, 07:03:36 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 06, 2018, 07:08:29 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 07:10:48 pm
Or Revise a variant of Sectoid to be frontliners with armor.
Honestly that psi signal is High Priority. We can ignore introducing new units for a turn in favor of locating it.
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 06, 2018, 07:43:42 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 07:46:05 pm
Post by: TopHat on January 06, 2018, 08:13:44 pm
I'd guess that It's entirely possible that the psionic activity is X-Com's, in which case their playing-field-levelling new aircraft weapon was only a revision and we could be in serious trouble. They'll probably replace missiles in their fighter loadout with more of the things and thus negate our ECM for free. This could, then, be a valuable opportunity to locate their base, or something else entirely. In either case the signal will probably continue for a while, so I'm not sure it'll be worth putting off major ground improvements for. Though I suppose a DNA token would be very useful if we decide to make the Brute, not that there's a guarantee we'll get one next turn. We may also get some triangulation on the signal by sending Sectoid missions to different corners of the globe, come to think of it, if they're sensitive enough.
On the ground I doubt just up-armouring the sectoids will suffice, especially as it will almost certainly increase their cost anyway. I also have a couple of ideas for potentially useful revisions and will put them up tomorrow, as well as a delayed response on goals; It's getting late and this post is long enough already.
Post by: piratejoe on January 06, 2018, 09:57:35 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 06, 2018, 11:06:38 pm
Revision should have air to ground.
Post by: ~Neri on January 06, 2018, 11:30:39 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 07, 2018, 01:36:17 am
This humble suit truly proves concept of mind over matter.
From first glance it is just sectoid sized alloy armour with servo motors not connected to anything.
But it's insides are covered by psychoconducting
Circuits, so motors ehnace strength and movement of gifted user, and armour itself is hardened by psychic might of occupant.
Helmet is enclosed and has built in psyfocus to let person inside reach out for greater distances with their mind or focus all their strength in searing mental ray.
Burner of worlds
Fairly simple design consisting of alloy tube filled with etherium and computer triggering explosion upon reaching surface or water. Sometimes you just have to be straight and brutal to primitives.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 07, 2018, 03:08:44 am
Well...Fuck. We really need mutons, cyberdisks, vipers, or something asap. We also might need to make a new fighter soon, as I think their own aircraft where able to maybe shoot down our craft....Ugh. This has gone to hell in a hand basket real fast. I would have thought the skin crawlers would do more but, it seems they did sweet FA... At least we slightly infiltrated Australia...
Their skyrangers downed your UFO while your fighters were busy. By the time they were no longer busy, the AI decided that the ground battle was pointless anyway and buggered of.
At the same time, your Skin Crawlers managed to pretty much eliminate 2 XCOM squads, sadly, there were more, and they got eliminated by the last group + air support.
Post by: ~Neri on January 07, 2018, 03:22:30 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 07, 2018, 03:24:43 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 07, 2018, 04:48:25 am
To clarify, (as an observer) ebbor: is the month end bonus a token or a permanent increase in capacity?
On a side note, you know how I said that the month's end bonus was one of those tokens that got locked to a design? I kind of forgot to inform XCOM of that, and I don't want to revert the entire turn, so I'll just go ahead and unlock yours too.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 07, 2018, 04:53:26 am
They designed a mission profile focusing specifically on air support.So if we designed/revised an air-to-ground weapon for our ships, they wouldn't use it?
Also, now that we have infiltrated a country, can you tell us what that does for us?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 07, 2018, 05:37:10 am
Quote
So if we designed/revised an air-to-ground weapon for our ships, they wouldn't use it?
If you make a dedicated ground to air platform, it would be used. Provided of course that isn't being distracted by any enemy presence.
Quote
Also, now that we have infiltrated a country, can you tell us what that does for us?Infiltration has multiple effects :
1) If you drive the country to panic while it's infiltrated, the chances of it surrendering to you instead of simply leaving XCOM go up.
2) If XCOM builds a base in an infiltrated country or region, there's a significant chance that you'll know.
3) At higher levels of infiltration, you may be able to get extra resources from them.
4) You can design mission types that rely on infiltrants from your cell.
Post by: piratejoe on January 07, 2018, 06:21:12 am
Welp, I had an idea for a heavy fighter that might do well for ground support then.
Heavy Fighter: The Heavy Fighter is a Medium fighter with more armour, and two turrets. One on the top of the craft for dealing with anything above it and one at the bottom for attacking ground targets. Naturally, should it need to for any reason, like say a turret breaking, it can do a half roll to switch the turrets around. Naturally, such changes will come at a cost of maneuverability but that shouldn't be a issue for the heavy fighter due to its armour and its turrets. It can be used for air support and help the enemy find a nice non solid state to sit in.
Alternatively.
Light Bomber: The light bomber is a Medium fighter with its front armament ripped right out and instead equipped with two heavy turrets at the bottom of the craft to blast away at anything below it and the AI told to use said turrets for destroying things on the ground. There is also a normal turret on top of the craft made to just simply to help protect the craft against any enemy aircraft that decides to try and take it down. It is slightly more armoured then the Medium fighter, but not by much as to not reduce the aerodynamics by much more then we already have.
And considering this vein of thinking...
Tactical Bombing: By bombing key military assets, we can reduce the will and ability of a nation to protect themselves against our power and strike out against Xcom and their antics. The goal of these missions is the destruction of ground, air, and naval forces in the targeted nation by sending out craft to blast any military instillation they come across, such as military air bases, naval ports, and barracks. Along with this, we are to strike out against any mass of soldiers or military vessels out in the open sea. Of course, primitive aircraft are to be watched but not engaged unless they approach and are attempting to attack. After all, things on the ground and in the sea are the targets of this mission, not things in the air.
Edit: So, our fighters took at least a couple of minutes to destroy the enemies fighters? because it seemed like it was only at most one...considering they saw the ground battle as pointless and thought that the skyrangers that shot down our UFO and in that same vein of thought probably where providing ground support weren't worth shooting down...
Post by: TopHat on January 07, 2018, 07:44:02 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm actually leaning towards using our design to build a facility to locate this psionic signal now and making the new ground unit next turn. The reason being that I think that with sufficiently crafty use of our new ECM we should be able to gain a slight edge this turn, and the source of the signal may well be short-lived.
Something like this, maybe?:
Spoiler: draft Mission proposal (click to show/hide)
Though come to think of it @Ebbor if we successfully locate the psionic signal will we have to design a new mission to investigate it on the ground? Because having to spend a second design slot on something otherwise useless seems a bit harsh for what is probably a one-off event.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 07, 2018, 08:27:16 am
Quote from: Design Votes
(1) "Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): Kashyyk
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 07, 2018, 09:20:27 am
If we do do a frontline combatant, I'd prefer not to do the Brute. For one thing, we don't have enough human DNA to do it- as mentioned previously, DNA tokens are one use only. For another, an unmodified Muton would be more powerful. For a third, humans have this nasty rebellious streak.
But... we could also just avoid getting into fights in the first place:
Basic Cloaking Device: The Earthlings consistently detect the passage of our craft through their atmosphere. Given the pitiful state of their sensor technology, this is an embarrassment. Therefore, we will fit some of our craft with this new creation.
The BCD projects an electromagnetic field around the vehicle, like our ECM, but more subtle and complex. It influences the passage of light waves, causing them to travel around the craft (and then continue on their prior trajectory) rather than reflecting off of it. This significantly reduces the radar signature of the vehicle to the point where- given the Earthling's archaic systems- all but a concerted effort to scan a specific area will fail to detect it.
With regards to the psionic activity... I'm worried that if we spend our design tracking it down, any mission we launch will be unlikely to succeed due to a lack of serious upgrades. On the other hand, I worry that it may expire, and we will lose our chance to find whatever it was.
Post by: TopHat on January 07, 2018, 11:04:25 am
Quote from: Psionic amplifier
This new facility, manned by a powerful Ethereal, serves to amplify their psionic senses, enabling them to detect (and send) psionic signals from further away and with greater accuracy. It is hoped that the near side of the Earth will be covered at the least, although anything even as complex as a simple mind merge is almost impossible at that range. Naturally, whilst in operation the facility itself creates a very strong signal, but it's not as though the humans have the capacity to detect it.
As well as hopefully detecting this signal, the facility might also be able to serve purpose as a communications system of sorts, as well as providing a basis for smaller hand-held and ship-based amplifier designs we may want later. I'm still not quite happy with the description, though.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 07, 2018, 11:26:46 am
Post by: TopHat on January 07, 2018, 12:14:58 pm
Quote from: Psionic signal amplifier
The Gift is a powerful tool, and any use of it outside our control should be closely monitored indeed. This new facility provides the means to do so, amplifying weak psionic signals to enable the operator to more easily observe them. Using the motion of the Earth's surface relative to our position on the moon, this enables and such signals to be triangulated with far greater accuracy than previously possible.
Come to think of it, either design would be useful for identifying X-Com's base the minute they begin successfully messing with psionics (or possibly even capture a powerful sectoid).
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 07, 2018, 02:54:24 pm
Quote
Basic Cloaking Device: (2) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
Brute:
Psionic Amplifier:
Post by: Puppyguard on January 07, 2018, 03:04:55 pm
Quote
Basic Cloaking Device: (3) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, PuppyguardWe might be able to downsize the cloaking device later and attach it onto heavy infantry.
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (1) Kashyyk
Psionic Amplifier:
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 07, 2018, 03:20:56 pm
Post by: TopHat on January 07, 2018, 05:57:16 pm
... we could do a stealth revision for the small scout instead. We'd only be able to use it on that, but I doubt we'd want to use it on much else at the moment (if it adds cost, as seems likely). A full design would be required later to expand it to the universal system when we get UFOs, but the experience here should help with that. On the downside, we wouldn't be able to use it this turn, though that could happen anyway if we roll poorly for it.
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (4) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard, sprinkled chariot
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (1) Kashyyk
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 07, 2018, 08:28:13 pm
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (4) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, Puppyguard, sprinkled chariot
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (2) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
We need NEED a frontline fighter, for REAL. We can't keep getting stomped or barely scraping by on the ground. I'd vote for a fighter upgrade or a Plasma Rifle for the revision. I mean, we probably won't get the durability to beat their railguns in one turn, since we'll still need Heavy Armor for that, but we need to start now! Plus, we already have cloaked units (until they get infantry infared or something).
Post by: Puppyguard on January 07, 2018, 08:33:39 pm
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (3) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, sprinkled chariotActually, after thinking about it some more I think we really do need infantry more than cloaking. Cloaking in its current state won't help us on the ground and it seems like we have the air covered so far.
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (3) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds, Puppyguard
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
Post by: piratejoe on January 07, 2018, 08:43:01 pm
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (3) NUKE9.13, Shadowclaw, sprinkled chariotJust a friendly reminder the Heavy fighter can be done in a revision, abet with some probable difficulty.
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (4) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 08, 2018, 03:41:01 am
Ebbor did our sectoids take samples of their
Railguns, when we won on land one mission ago ?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 08, 2018, 04:17:41 am
In fluff, sure.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 08, 2018, 04:44:52 am
But can we please not deploy slightly-modified humans? That goes against the flavour of the game like nobody's business, and would be harder than deploying aliens besides.
You want medium infantry, do a proper alien. Like this:
Lesser Muton: Despite the unfortunate corruption of our gene banks (or whatever other explanation there is for us not being able to instantly deploy the aliens' usual roster), we still possess the majority of the Muton species' DNA. Rebuilding the original genetic structure would be tricky, but fortunately we can take a short-cut, by splicing in bits of other species' DNA to fill in the gaps. Anything that will fit, really, be it Alien or Earthish in origin.
The result is not quite as impressive as the Mutons we once knew, but it is still a formidable specimen. 7ft tall, intensely muscled, clad in substantial combat armour, what we are calling the Lesser Muton is still expected to be capable of taking a serious beating, thanks to the special bone and muscle structure that protects vital organs and arteries. Their prodigious strength let them wield heavier weaponry than Sectoids and throw grenades further, whilst the genetic memory of their warrior culture instils in them natural tactical proficiency.
Post by: piratejoe on January 08, 2018, 05:48:33 am
Post by: Kashyyk on January 08, 2018, 06:05:07 am
Quote
That goes against the flavour of the game like nobody's business, and would be harder than deploying aliens besides.I disagree. The flavour of the game is to design things as aliens to beat XCom, not follow the XCom games like a bible.
Literally the only difference in the end result between the Light Muton and the Brute is that the Brute actually has a chance of passing for a human under casual inspection, which as a hostile, insurgent force, we want to be able to do.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 08, 2018, 06:20:19 am
I'm not saying we should follow the games like a bible. Indeed, I have suggested we shouldn't, that we should endeavour to do things differently from the games.QuoteThat goes against the flavour of the game like nobody's business, and would be harder than deploying aliens besides.I disagree. The flavour of the game is to design things as aliens to beat XCom, not follow the XCom games like a bible.
But we should do things that could plausibly exist in a new XCOM game. The aliens deploying Advent in the second month of the invasion is not plausible.
Quote
Literally the only difference in the end result between the Light Muton and the Brute is that the Brute actually has a chance of passing for a human under casual inspection, which as a hostile, insurgent force, we want to be able to do.No, we already have an infiltration unit. We don't want to spend resources making a jack of all trades with this design, we want a dedicated front-line fighter. If we try to make it disguisable, we are liable to end up with a weaker, smaller unit.
Also, the end result is not all that matters. The journey- in this case the difficulty of the design- is also important. And it is an established fact that working with alien DNA is easier for us than working with human DNA. A design that is 80% human+20% alien is going to be harder than one that is 20% human+80% alien.
Post by: Wizgrot on January 08, 2018, 07:40:52 am
I am new to this forum, so I don´t really know how to update the voting box
Anyway, guys, what about for the next project we try to revise the sectoids so they can act as a sort of psionic array? Think of it like linking CPU´s to make a supercomputer or those big internet projects where you can lend your computer so it can help calculate prime numbers or whatever.
The idea would be a revision that helps sectoids do a colossal mind merge which can be done from our base or on the ground. This idea would permit having a very powerful array on our base while permitting us to form them on the ground as well, although with revised effectiveness. They would allow us to tranmit, receive and pinpoint psionic signals (or even radio waves, if we are ambitious)
Post by: Puppyguard on January 08, 2018, 04:00:12 pm
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (1) ShadowclawAssuming nuke hopped on the lesser muton train since he offered the design.
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (2) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds,
Lesser Muton(4) Puppyguard, Piratejoe, sprinkled chariot, NUKE9.13
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 08, 2018, 04:11:09 pm
Also, you moved sprinkled chariot's vote for no reason.
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (2(3)) Shadowclaw, sprinkled chariot, (NUKE9.13)
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (2) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds,
Lesser Muton(4(3)) Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474) (1) TopHat
Since it wouldn't be fair for BCD to win because the infantry vote was split, I will vote for the Lesser Muton. However, if more people vote for the BCD, I will switch back. Hence the weird formatting.
If people would rather not do weird voting shenanigans, my vote will stay on the BCD.
Post by: Puppyguard on January 08, 2018, 04:14:39 pm
Also, you moved sprinkled chariot's vote for no reason.Oh snap, sorry sprinkled, confused you with Wizgrot.
Post by: TopHat on January 08, 2018, 05:20:17 pm
The idea would be a revision that helps sectoids do a colossal mind merge which can be done from our base or on the ground. This idea would permit having a very powerful array on our base while permitting us to form them on the ground as well, although with revised effectiveness. They would allow us to tranmit, receive and pinpoint psionic signals (or even radio waves, if we are ambitious)
That actually sounds like a very good idea, probably more useful than mine. r.e. the votebox, probably to easiest way to do it is to quote the last person to vote (can be done either from the thread or using 'insert quote' directly from the post), optionally delete everything except the section within
Quote from: voting ... /quote
, and then add your vote.
Speaking of which, in light of the collective decision to leave the anomaly till later, I'll change mine.Quote from: votingBasic Cloaking Device: (2(3)) Shadowclaw, sprinkled chariot, (NUKE9.13)
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (3) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds, TopHat
Lesser Muton(4(3)) Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474)
The Brute/Muton debate comes back to the goals thing I mentioned earlier. If we want to focus on infiltration moving onwards, the Brute will be more useful; otherwise the Lesser Muton is probably a better bet. I'm leaning towards the former approach myself, hence my vote.
Saying that, I am very tempted by the BCD, though my worry is that although it'll reduce the chance of being detected whilst flying there'll still be a significant chance of discovery of the ground mission in progress, especially a harvest. The temptation comes partly from the fact that if we can gather a DNA token this turn it'd greatly benefit the new unit, potentially saving a revision.
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 08, 2018, 06:19:09 pm
Quote from: voting
Basic Cloaking Device: (2(3)) Shadowclaw, sprinkled chariot, (NUKE9.13)
Heavy Fighter
Light Bomber
Tactical Bombing:
"Brute" Medium Infantry (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660243#msg7660243): (2) Kashyyk, SamSpeeds, TopHat
Lesser Muton(5(4)) Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Wizgrot, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Psionic Signal Amplifier: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7661474#msg7661474)
Yeah, on second neuron fire we should really be devoting as much as possible to getting a BIG BOY FRONTLINER since we are severely lacking there, and we already gotta ambusher. Also, if I messed up NUKE's weird ass schrodinger's votes im sorry bros. What's up for the revision? I vote a better weapon for our frontliners, like a Plasma Rifle.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 08, 2018, 07:27:56 pm
ebbor
since fluffwise we got xcom stuff for analysis, especially railguns,
Do we get to know, what their railmemes are, like if it is auto or semiauto, if it has scope or thermals and stuff like that, if it has computer augmented aiming, etc etc. Also what their operatives wear?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 09, 2018, 05:47:48 am
Quote from: Experiment 27 : Final Conclusion
Utilizing substance M, we have implemented the alpha strain modification in several human subjects (Age : 20-32, 50% gender balance). Mortality was elevated compared to control at 20% fatalities, a 50 percent point improvement compared to conventional trials. We have identified further gene groups believed to be related to rejection, pre-screening of which should prevent additional failures and reduce waste of critical resources.
In the surviving subjects, the alpha strain modifications emerged in various strength. While most subjects showed significant expression, only one subject attained full expression of desired traits. Analysis indicates that traits function as expected, though unintended side effects have arisen. We expect that medical operations will be sufficient to deal with these issues pending gene resequencing.
In light of recent successes, we request permission to start Phase 2 trials.
Note : Experiment Methodology and data is included in addendum A. Vivisection reports are included in addenum B.
Comment: Limited reserves of Substance M greatly complicate phase 2 implementation. We suggests an increased priority of recovery operations.
Post by: piratejoe on January 09, 2018, 06:02:06 am
Post by: Wizgrot on January 09, 2018, 10:00:23 am
Revision project: Elder´s Denial (may need a better name)
It seems that the humans are using bits and pieces of our superior technology to improve theirs. They cannot be allowed to continue with this practice if we want to stop them from applying said stolen knowledge to the field, potentially ruining the invasion. I propose to revise our self destruct devices with powerful explosives to ruin any potential salvage from failed operations. A regular explosive charge, combined with the plasma from our main weapons will have the same effect of a plasma grenade, although with the zero zone around the soldier in question. If all seems lost, our soldier can always try to assault enemies and sacrifice himself for the greater good in the ensuing explosion.
This revision should include optional explosive belts than can be fitted to Skin Crawlers (as they have no weapons) or future species that have no need for plasma arms.
Optional: If our aliens fall unconscious, I think we should rig our self destruct devices to detonate to avoid live capture from Earthlings, although only when our soldiers are on ground duty. Confirm or deny this option if you vote for this.
Research Project: Universal Modular Armor (UMA)
Humanity is proven to be tougher than what it seemed at first glance. Their weapons, while very primitive, are managing to eliminate our troops before they close in, making their superior psionic or melee capabilities wasted against them. We need to improve the survivability of our troops if we want to have a chance to recover teams after a successful mission.
The Universal Modular Armor (UMA) might help us in that regard. It´s base is a form-fitting bodysuit with areas of it covered by microscopical coils. Through a miniaturized elerium-powered battery, the coils create a strong electromagnetic field around in their surrounding area. This allows us to add armor by modules, armor parts which can be thinner or thicker depending on the mission needs or the physiognomy of the species currently wearing it. Since the electricity from the coils can carry through plates, it will be easy to create multilayer armor should we require it.
The research project includes a basic modules of armor to fit our three main species for now (Lesser Muton, Skin Crawler, Sectoid) and any we later deploy, including the theorized Chimera variant.
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 09, 2018, 10:25:56 am
Post by: Failbird105 on January 09, 2018, 10:34:41 am
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 09, 2018, 10:43:14 am
Post by: TopHat on January 09, 2018, 11:09:03 am
If we're designing universal armour there's really no reason to specifically exclude (humaniod-form, at least) skin crawlers. Even if it doesn't seem useful now, it may come in handy later down the line. Regarding the self-destruct, it's an interesting proposal, though at the moment I'd rather use our revision to directly increase combat capability or locate the signal.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 09, 2018, 12:26:09 pm
1 free Crawler, 1 free Scout; 5 VP; 6 UP; 2 EP (we utilize the token we just go for a Vehicle Point token, we prolly don’t even need it. It just gives a extra light fighter for the Japan infiltration. Anyways this doesn’t add in the Light Muton’s cost into it. But the idea is utilize ECM and multiple fleets to scare Xcom into wasting their resources.)
Quote from: Potential Idea for our Next Mission
Mission 1: Small Scout (FREE) + ECM Enhanced Size Target
Skin Crawlers+Scout Drones
Objective: Abduction
Location: Australia
-1 UP, -1 EP
Notes: Utilize ECM to increase the electronic signature of the Scout
Mission 2: Small Scout + Medium Fighter + 1 Light Fighters
1 Skin Crawler (FREE) and Infiltrated + 1 Sectoid (-2 UP)
Objective: Recruit Collaborators
Location: Japan
Cost: -3 VP. -2 UP
Note: Light Fighter should increase its ECM signature to appear larger, like the size of the Medium Fighter
Mission 3: Small Scout
1 Skin Crawlers, 1 Scout Drone
Objective: Recruit Collaborators
Location: Brazil
Cost: -3 VP, -2 UP, -1 EP
-5 VP, -6 UP, -2 EP
Post by: Wizgrot on January 09, 2018, 12:45:17 pm
While individual sectoids do not have great psionic abilities, this Ethereal engineer has devised a way to plan around that.
Working based on the outstanding success that mental link development has proven to be, this takes it to a massive scale. We will secure a chamber in our Moon, and put thousands of the old generation sectoids available to us in life sustaining pods. We will then connect their neural cortex together and to a mainframe and communications array, like they were individual processing units of a supercomputer.
Their added psionic prowess will help coordinate the troops in the ground and triangulate the position of psionic forces. But that´s not the true extend of their powers.
Any sector pod that wishes it might cease all action in order to act as an amplifier for the Aquelarre matrix. During this time, they will stand still, acting as a relay for the matrix, earning them a foothold on the planet and permitting them to unleash their full force on it.
This will enlarge the psionic prowess of the pod, allowing them to use powers barred by their flimsy mental capabilities. They won´t be of use in a tactical situation, but their power would able us to affect the minds of the population at large, magnifying acts of terror and being and twisting the human perception towards their more emotional side.
As an additional effect, they might help as a way to make the Ethereals themselves manifest on Earth. An Ethereal might use the relay to establish a psionic alter ego on Earth that will be able to make use of their full power or engage in diplomacy, although the operation is so vexing for the pod´s minds that it makes their brain burn after the contact is broken(either by the alter ego expiring or any of the sectoids of the pod dying).
Okay, so far this is a prototype for a psionic relay that actually has some utility outside of battle. About the effect, maybe it doubles panic that we cause in a mission, I don´t really know. Add more effects if you feel like it. I think this will be a very difficult design. While we might think of reserving it for later, as this is a “win more” design that we can use to end the game or put some more pressure into XCOM. I don´t know whether this is a revision or Research project, but I assume it is the later. This might be too ambitious. Hoping for some criticism.
Also, I would propose the self destruct project for revision.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 09, 2018, 02:42:35 pm
Post by: Wizgrot on January 09, 2018, 04:08:39 pm
If my self destruct gets approved, I believe we should try for a more spread out mission profile, since we won´t have so much problems with humans recovering stolen equipment.
I can also write a ship self destruct device instead, if you feel like it, instead of the infantry one. It would allow us to commit to as many missions as possible while minimizing any fuckups.
Post by: TopHat on January 09, 2018, 04:27:33 pm
I have some similar ideas regarding this turn's missions but that can wait until the cost of our new unit is known. I would, however, suggest we focus on harvest missions this turn to gain a few more UP tokens to keep up with rising unit cost and the increasing number of UFOs we can deploy. The DNA will be nice as well.
Regarding the Aquelarre: It definitely seems very ambitious to me; if we want to make it soon maybe remove everything past the first paragraph or two and then revise the rest in later. Though as a warning it will suffer from the same flaw as my first amplifier proposal: namely, a large, easily-detected psionic signal at our main base. Whether that risk is worth the extra utility is the question.
EDIT - missions are sent out before revision, so we won't know if the self destruct will be voted in or, if it is, work properly before they're launched. Just something to keep in mind.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 09, 2018, 04:36:51 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 09, 2018, 04:46:07 pm
They will get, that we are on moon, the first moment they capture random sectoid anywayThat's not how XCOM games work. You don't discover the alien's main base after interrogating a Sectoid.
Aquelarre is an interesting idea, but not something we want to do right now. And yeah, as mentioned, doing it all at once would be overambitious. We should start with the basics, and work up.
Post by: Wizgrot on January 10, 2018, 11:31:29 am
While our current air battles are going very good at the moment, we cannot allow Humanity to recover more of the Ethereal technology if we hope to defeat them while they remain foolish and primitive. They already have on their control several of our craft, which they surely have used to improve on their puny "technology".
Elerium-115, our main energy source, has shown a remarkable stability when degrading it in a controlled environment, so its energy can power our ships and equipment. However, by rising quickly the temperature and the pressure of the engine, we can make it enter into a highly radioactive and volatile state, which powered with some plasma detonators installed near should release all of their energy with an explosive blast that should make most of the components useless and deadly irradiated, greatly increasing the cost and feasibility of salvage operations and killing troops near the area of the blast.
I propose to monitor our troops life signals and automatically detonate it if the tripulation dies or becomes unconscious.
With some luck we should have the following design installed in any ships that attack Earth this month. Taking that for granted, as the design is not in my opinion a very difficult thing to engineer, I have a different plan for this month, which relies more on doing as many missions as we can.
We should try to make them think we have made Medium Harvesters and are moving them to strike at the two locations we have hit: Australia and Brazil. Then we try to go as many places as we can, trying to infiltrate and Harvest for the goodies. Our main mission, if they decide to not take the bait, will be a Harvest in the UK (flesh bodies all around), with a Melt container that we can use to still get some DNA samples.
Next turn, if we commit to design a workable Medium Harvester, we can substitute the fakes with them to see if they can ignore the missions.
Mission: Harvest
Area: Brazil
Ships: Small Scout (increasing its radar signature to a Medium Harvester)(free)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Australia
Ships: Small scout (Increasing its radar signature to appear a Medium Harvester)(1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: United Kingdom
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (2UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: China
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (free)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Germany
Ships: Small Scout(1VP) (Increased Radar signature to hide the Medium Fighter)+ Medium Fighter (2VP)
Troops & Equipment: Lesser Mutons (2UP) + Meld Container (1EP) + Drones(1EP)+Sectoids (1UP)
I respected Nuke´s idea to convert his point in a vehicle point. They can over extend or focus only on small craft. Either way, we end up winning. They have a total of around 6 vehicle points if Interceptors and Skyrangers cost the same points (1 each)and they haven´t got the balls to build only interceptors.
Tell me if there are any changes that you would do to the plan.
[/quote]
Mission: Harvest
Area: Brazil
Ships: Small Scout (increasing its radar signature to a Medium Harvester)(free)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Australia
Ships: Small scout (Increasing its radar signature to appear a Medium Harvester)(1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: United Kingdom
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (2UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: China
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (free)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Germany
Ships: Small Scout(1VP) (Increased Radar signature to hide the Medium Fighter)+ Medium Fighter (2VP)
Troops & Equipment: Lesser Mutons (2UP) + Meld Container (1EP) + Drones(1EP)+Sectoids (1UP)
[/quote]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 10, 2018, 11:44:28 am
I respected Nuke´s idea to convert his point in a vehicle point.uwot mate? I never said that.
I mean, using it as a VP may be the right call. Let's see what the results of the design are first though, eh?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 11, 2018, 05:17:01 am
Quote
Lesser Muton: Despite the unfortunate corruption of our gene banks (or whatever other explanation there is for us not being able to instantly deploy the aliens' usual roster), we still possess the majority of the Muton species' DNA. Rebuilding the original genetic structure would be tricky, but fortunately we can take a short-cut, by splicing in bits of other species' DNA to fill in the gaps. Anything that will fit, really, be it Alien or Earthish in origin.Hard 2 + 1 -1 = 2 (Utter failure)
The result is not quite as impressive as the Mutons we once knew, but it is still a formidable specimen. 7ft tall, intensely muscled, clad in substantial combat armour, what we are calling the Lesser Muton is still expected to be capable of taking a serious beating, thanks to the special bone and muscle structure that protects vital organs and arteries. Their prodigious strength let them wield heavier weaponry than Sectoids and throw grenades further, whilst the genetic memory of their warrior culture instils in them natural tactical proficiency.
The Muton is a gene-engineered combat beast. The lesser muton should have been a smaller variant, suited to operate in Earth's biosphere without the common issues that unexpected biological substances have upon many extraterrestrial creatures. Unfortunately, the integration of new DNA segments into the carefully engineered structure causes dramatic unexpected effects. The lesser mutton suffers alternatively from severe gigantism and dwarfism, has tremendous circulatory and auto-immune isssues, and shows no measurable brain activity.
Prepare the invasion
Unusual psionic signals detected : Current Location Unknown
Additional mission objective unlocked : Investigate signal (Requirement : Deploy and retrieve a unit equipped with gift on any mission)
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Invasion Phase
Challenge award : Later
Info : We're detecting unusual psionic activity from the planet. The signal was very weak and could not be located, but it was definitively there.
Turn 5
AABBCCDD
[/quote]
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 11, 2018, 05:34:20 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 11, 2018, 05:49:23 am
Uh. The Lesser Muton was meant to be easier. Not more effective. Indeed, it was meant to be less effective. The way the results are worded makes it sound like regular Mutons would have been Normal.
That's me trying to justify why you can't deploy your usual roster of aliens. All the regular aliens are allergic to the biosphere.
It's nit an indication that a normal muton woukd have been easier.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 11, 2018, 05:58:47 am
Post by: Kashyyk on January 11, 2018, 06:01:55 am
Anyway, I suggest the following plan:
Quote from: Triangulate the Signal
Mission 1
Target: Argentina
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Investigate Signal
Mission 2
Target: Mexico
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Investigate Signal
Mission 3
Target: France
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Investigate Signal
Mission 4
Target: Japan
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Investigate Signal
Mission 5
Target: Egypt
Vehicle: 1xSmall Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Investigate Signal
Total Cost: 5VP, 7UP, 2EP
This plan is intended to flood XCom with targets. We will lose some, but the majority should get through and allow us to find the signal and hit it next turn.
Post by: piratejoe on January 11, 2018, 06:15:55 am
Post by: Kashyyk on January 11, 2018, 06:21:40 am
Except XCom have demonstrated that they can break into that box, whereas they can't search for stuff.
You know what, this metaphor is getting a bit laboured.
Every time we go for one heavy group, XCom successfully beats us and gets a 100% interception rate for that turn. The times we've launched multiple missions, they haven't been able to intercept all of them, generating a <100% interception rate.
Clearly we need to deploy in breadth rather than depth, especially as our front-line trooper design flopped.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 11, 2018, 08:53:05 am
Sending one mission to each continent makes sense, since even if we don't hit the right country, the signal should be clearer if we get the right continent, and then next turn we can narrow it down further.
I'm not sure we should spend our Joker Token on UP, though, which the plan currently requires.
Also, I believe that Investigate Signal is something we can add to any mission, and not a mission type in and of itself (ebbor?)
So I would do it like this:
Quote from: Triangulate the Signal V2
Mission 1
Target: Argentina
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 2
Target: Mexico
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 3
Target: France
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 4
Target: Japan
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 5
Target: Egypt
Vehicle: 1xSmall Scout (1VP), masquerading as a Medium-sized craft.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Total Cost: 5VP, 6UP, 2EP
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 11, 2018, 08:59:32 am
Quote
Also, I believe that Investigate Signal is something we can add to any mission, and not a mission type in and of itself (ebbor?)
It's additional.
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 11, 2018, 09:07:39 am
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2: (2) NUKE, SamSpeeds
Triangulate the Signal: (1) Kashyyk
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 11, 2018, 09:09:41 am
Post by: Kashyyk on January 11, 2018, 09:15:57 am
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (3) NUKE, SamSpeeds, Kashyyk
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Post by: TopHat on January 11, 2018, 11:41:28 am
1. I'd have the masquerading craft attack Brazil (and switch the Argentina one to Africa), hopefully making them prioritise it more.
2. We have a free unit of Skin Crawlers; no reason not to use it. We also have one UP token to spend and the free token (I'd recommend spending it on either grenades (EP) or on a small scout and then using the spare on a light fighter to accompany the 'medium ship'. Or just another scout.).
3. If we want any DNA to improve our next shot at making a frontliner we should take some Meld. This does mean they may capture it, though.
EDIT: Maybe something like this?:
Quote from: Triangulate the Signal, V3
Spend one UP token on Sectoids
Mission 1
Target: Egypt
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, Meld Container (1EP), 1x Skin Crawler (FREE).
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 2
Target: Mexico
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 3
Target: France
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 4
Target: Japan
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1 Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 5
Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1xSmall Scout (1VP), masquerading as a Medium-sized craft.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Total Cost: 5VP, 6UP, 2EP
That still leaves the unbound token.
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 11, 2018, 12:06:08 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 11, 2018, 12:20:14 pm
Quote
Anyway, congratulations NUKE9.13, as you won the contest. Have a free token (that can be used to get 1 free point worth of any tech you currently have), and this short snippet.
Why aren't we spending this token? It can be utilized to give a Small Scout another Light Fighter, in which I recommend we put in the Japan Mission. (Recommending actually putting this Joker Token on a Medium Fighter, and subtracting one of the other scout mission
Also I guess I didn't realize that tokens are one-time things, unless they aren't? No wait it states [2 UP FREE] for the Skin Crawlers, I am very confused...
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 11, 2018, 12:36:17 pm
We aren't spending the Joker Token cos there ain't nothing worth spending it on. 1 extra VP won't get us a medium fighter to go with our 5 Small Scouts, Sectoids are not something we are always going to want to deploy, nor are grenades or Meld.
...although, I suppose we should be able to find a use for a single unit of Sectoids for most of the game. So I guess spending a UP on them isn't a total waste.
Alright, I'll go with TopHat's version.
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (2) SamSpeeds, Kashyyk
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: TopHat on January 11, 2018, 12:42:53 pm
If I recall correctly, meld is not a requirement for obtaining DNA tokens, it just means we can get more or something. Also, it auto-sterilizes and I doubt they are advanced enough to bypass it and successfully capture.Look over the previous turns:
Turn 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7646244#msg7646244)
Turn 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7651538#msg7651538)
Turn 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7654510#msg7654510)
Turn 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7660963#msg7660963)
It seems that a successful harvest gives 1 UP, 1 DNA with Meld, and 1 Panic if it's not intercepted. Additional craft probably increase yields, though the only time we've tried that we suffered heavy enough losses to bring the gains back down to normal levels. On the capture front, I strongly suspect the snippet we got from Nuke's story win refers to human scientists performing experiments with captured Meld; though in any case the gains of use outweigh the risks in my opinion.
@Shadowclaw777 - I believe you are correct; see my previous post. I left the wildcard token unassigned in my plan, though, as I didn't know if people would prefer to spend it on VP or EP.
EDIT - my personal preference at the moment would be using it as a UP for a free small scout, then add a light fighter to the decoy to make it more threatening; we probably won't be phasing out the scout for a while. That or save it.
EDIT 2 - I'll vote to save that token for now. Speaking of which:
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (2) SamSpeeds, Kashyyk
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (2) NUKE9.13, TopHat
Post by: Puppyguard on January 11, 2018, 03:23:48 pm
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (2) SamSpeeds, Kashyyk
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (3) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard
Post by: piratejoe on January 11, 2018, 03:31:38 pm
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (2) SamSpeeds, Kashyyk
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (4) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Post by: Kashyyk on January 11, 2018, 03:59:47 pm
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (1) SamSpeeds
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (5) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kashyyk
Post by: Wizgrot on January 12, 2018, 09:20:54 am
Mission: Harvest
Area: Brazil
Ships: Small Scout (increasing its radar signature to a Medium Harvester)(free)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Australia
Ships: Small scout (Increasing its radar signature to appear a Medium Harvester)(1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: United Kingdom
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (2UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: China
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (free)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Germany
Ships: Small Scout(1VP) (Increased Radar signature to hide the Medium Fighter)+ Medium Fighter (2VP)
Troops & Equipment: Lesser Mutons (2UP) + Meld Container (1EP) + Drones(1EP)+Sectoids (1UP)
Post by: Failbird105 on January 12, 2018, 09:32:37 am
Also where would we be getting the space for three units even if we did have the mutons?
As it is your plan, as much as I would like to spread infiltration, requires us to both design the lesser mutons AND revise increased unit capacity onto our scouts. Both can be solved by removing the muton from the plan but still.
Post by: Wizgrot on January 12, 2018, 09:39:44 am
EDIT: I have decide to rotate a Meld Container to the Australia mission, in case they decide not to go for the it.
Mission: Harvest
Area: Brazil
Ships: Small Scout (increasing its radar signature to a Medium Harvester)(free)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)+Meld Container (1EQ)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Australia
Ships: Small scout (Increasing its radar signature to appear a Medium Harvester)(1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Sectoid (1UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: United Kingdom
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (2UP)
Mission: Recruit Collaborators
Area: China
Ships: Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: Skin Crawler (free)
Mission: Harvest
Area: Germany
Ships: Small Scout(1VP) (Increased Radar signature to hide the other Small Scout)+ Small Scout (1VP)
Troops & Equipment: 1 Meld Container (1EP) + Drones(1EP)+ 3 Sectoids (3 UP)
Quote from: VotesTriangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (1) SamSpeeds
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (5) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kashyyk
Harvest & Infiltration:(1) Wizgrot
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 12, 2018, 05:08:30 pm
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (1) SamSpeeds
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (6) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kashyyk, SC
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 12, 2018, 05:25:07 pm
Quote from: Votes
Triangulate the Signal V2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664639#msg7664639): (1) SamSpeeds
Triangulate the Signal (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664566#msg7664566): ()
Triangulate the Signal V3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7664758#msg7664758): (6) NUKE9.13, TopHat, Puppyguard, Piratejoe, Kashyyk, SC
Harvest & Infiltration:(1) Wizgrot
Post by: TopHat on January 12, 2018, 05:57:32 pm
1. We're already struggling to fill craft and are about to design a new, more expensive unit - given that several missions are likely to be intercepted I'd rather be certain we get at least a couple of UP tokens to spend on it. The sooner we get these tokens the more use we can get out of them.
2. The more missions we take sectoids on the more likely we are to locate the signal (if only by guaranteeing at least one will return). This is high priority in my opinion.
3. Unintercepted harvests generate panic, so we should be able to get another couple of countries to start panicking this way - something for X-Com to worry about, at least, and giving us more options if we decide to pile the pressure on.
As a side note, your plan spends 3 EP, so you'll need to ditch the drones or a Meld canister.
Reposting those old turn links got me wondering about what X-Com have been up to. So here's a quick attempt to look over what we can guess about their designs:
Spoiler: X-Com intel (click to show/hide)
Post by: Wizgrot on January 12, 2018, 06:44:56 pm
However, next turn, we need to start infiltrating more. I suggest as possible objectives Australia (since we already have an infiltration there), China (as having a high ranking party leader on our side would be invaluable) and Nigeria (oil runs the world and so will we).
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 13, 2018, 09:50:52 am
Quote
Mission 1
Target: Egypt
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, Meld Container (1EP), 1x Skin Crawler (FREE).
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 2
Target: Mexico
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 3
Target: France
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 4
Target: Japan
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1 Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Mission 5
Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1xSmall Scout (1VP), masquerading as a Medium-sized craft.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Missions launched
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision Phase
Turn 5
AABBCCDD
Post by: Wizgrot on January 13, 2018, 10:11:31 am
While our current air battles are going very good at the moment, we cannot allow Humanity to recover more of the Ethereal technology if we hope to defeat them while they remain foolish and primitive. They already have on their control several of our craft, which they surely have used to improve on their puny "technology".
Elerium-115, our main energy source, has shown a remarkable stability when degrading it in a controlled environment, so its energy can power our ships and equipment. However, by rising quickly the temperature and the pressure of the engine, we can make it enter into a highly radioactive and volatile state, which powered with some plasma detonators installed near should release all of their energy with an explosive blast that should make most of the components useless and deadly irradiated, greatly increasing the cost and feasibility of salvage operations and killing troops near the area of the blast.
I propose to monitor our troops life signals and automatically detonate it if the tripulation dies or becomes unconscious.
I propose this as revision
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 13, 2018, 10:15:53 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 13, 2018, 10:26:52 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 13, 2018, 10:32:57 am
Psi-Scan: In order to better triangulate the mysterious psionic signal originating from earth, we have taught our Sectoids this relatively simple technique. To use it, the gift-user must take a moment to center themselves, clearing their mind of distractions. They then meditate on all the psionic signals they can detect, and sort them out- filtering out signals they don't care about, honing in on those they do- such as mysterious powerful emissions, or nearby Earthlings. In the former case, the direction and strength are to be recorded and transmitted back to base. In the latter case, the psionic signal may be used to 'lock on' to a target, drastically increasing accuracy against them- letting even pistols strike true at moderate ranges.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 13, 2018, 11:09:03 am
Quote from: Lesser Muton Review
The Lesser Muton was an utter failure, but we can still learn from it. By performing an indepth analysis of what did we did right, what we did wrong and who needs to be reassigned to sanitation, we can have a serious head start the next time we attempt a similar project.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 13, 2018, 11:14:28 am
I'm thinking we want our revision to help on the ground, since that's where we have the most trouble.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 13, 2018, 11:35:02 am
Quote
Improved Evasion Protocol
Dealing with enemy aircraft unguided weapons and even guided weapons have created difficulty for our aircrafts. Truly there is only one way to deal with unguided weaponry besides more complicated technologies like energy shields and more advanced armor systems, which is raw agility. By improving the maneuverability and agility of our flight computers in combat while also helping with the ship's thrusters and engine to dodge enemy fire while in a fight, things like our Small Scouts and Medium Fighters will be even more annoying to deal with in the air, like trying to hit a mosquito, they soon realize their unguided weaponry to be completely useless and the missiles that do track on target can than be easily avoid with evasive maneuvers from the flight computer
We need more and more vehicle points people, their the most valuable resource to the invasion
Quote
UFO Construction Bay:
As the war effort has continued, we need more and more UFOs to deal with the everlasting aerial fights that we had to encounter and deal with. By constructing additional infrastructure from mining the moon and some innocent asteroids, we have been able to construct a new bay around our facility dedicated to just creating new UFOs and even allowed us to have the infrastructure to support the vehicles we needed to create for the prolonged invasion..
We are given 2UP of Crawlers everyturn, either giving them better visibility-light cloaking or improving their natural armor is my idea; it's a possibility to enhance them
Quote
Tough Crawlers:
Skin Crawlers while very deceptive and deadly up close, are just too weak against enemy gunfire. By enhancing their skin and creating s reinforced exoskeleton for the murder-octupusrd while also giving them redundant organs to handle damave, a Skin Crawler can handle taking the blunt force of physical fire and explosions while they utilize their plasma pistols to come up close to the humans and horrible slaughter them with their spiky tentacles
We need a new weapon compared to the Pistol, it just outdated, but here's the Carbine idea...
Quote
Plasma Carbine:
Our plasma pistol is weak and yet still utilizes advanced technology, we needed a weapon. It can suit various purposes while also being powerful and compact. The carbine has more range, up to the Medium range spectrum compared to its predecessor, and can exert a lot more powerful and condense plasma compared to its predecessor
((Idea we go with the better vehicle production points, utilize the Joker Token, and create a Heavy Fighter that can also bombard enemy ground troops and decimate enemy aerial ships for next turn))
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 13, 2018, 05:15:31 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (1) NUKE9.13
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine:
Post by: Kashyyk on January 13, 2018, 05:26:34 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (1) NUKE9.13
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashyyk
I think we're doing okay with ship numbers. It's ground troops we're struggling with.
Post by: Wizgrot on January 13, 2018, 05:26:51 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(1) Wizgrot[/quote]
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (1) NUKE9.13
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine:
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 13, 2018, 05:31:39 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(1) Wizgrot
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (2) NUKE9.13, SC
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Post by: ~Neri on January 13, 2018, 05:40:08 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(2) Wizgrot, Kevak
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (2) NUKE9.13, SC
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Yah, I'd rather deny the enemy resources. We're currently struggling with filling all our craft anyways.
Post by: Puppyguard on January 13, 2018, 05:48:57 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(2) Wizgrot, Kevak
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (3) NUKE9.13, SC, Puppyguard.
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Post by: BBBence1111 on January 13, 2018, 05:57:13 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(2) Wizgrot, Kevak
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (4) NUKE9.13, SC, Puppyguard, BBBence
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
We could maybe give sectoids an ability to insta panic their soldiers. Use the gift to show them visions of their loved ones/squad/xcom dieing?
Post by: Wizgrot on January 13, 2018, 06:15:20 pm
We have an F in Evil
Now, really, if they gain Investigation tokens for every ship they take down and retrieve, any mission they target except one will gain them one of those. SO expect 1-3 tokens if we don´t implant those self destruct detonators. Those extra ship-bays will come in handy, but not for now.
Also, those designs simply don´t feel well for me. I mean, we are supposed to design weapons and missions, not factories.
Establishing Outpost would be cool, since it needs a dedicated mission o do it, but those sort of things...meh. Since (normally) arms race matches are supposed to have infrastructure running in the background... But really is your game and your call.
Post by: Puppyguard on January 13, 2018, 07:11:59 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(3) Wizgrot, Kevak, Puppyguard.
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (3) NUKE9.13, SC, BBBence.
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 13, 2018, 08:03:55 pm
As for infrastructure reasons, the lack of VPs is really hurting us and expanding our base seems like a logical action to do. As for creating another alien base, maybe it can be Terror from the Deep and we can try a deep trench base? Probably difficulty with not getting spotted by radar. Anyways, infrastructure supporting ideas seem like they should be a thing that can be developed, since we can already make attempts at creating at bases and even make attempts at improvement to our bases should be possible
Edit: the versatility of a plasma Carbine to give our soldiers and even the sectoids with their newfound strength to moderate ranges is not to be underestimated, however the self-destruct button has applicable usage as well.
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(4) Wizgrot, Kevak, Puppyguard, SC
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (2) NUKE9.13, BBBence.
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Post by: piratejoe on January 13, 2018, 10:53:37 pm
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(5) Wizgrot, Kevak, Puppyguard, SC, PiratejoeToo bad...
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (2) NUKE9.13, BBBence.
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Post by: TopHat on January 14, 2018, 08:54:53 am
Quote from: Votes
Elder's Scorn:(6) Wizgrot, Kevak, Puppyguard, SC, Piratejoe, TopHat
Psi-Scan:
Lesser Muton Review:
Improved Evasion Protocol:
UFO Construction Bay: (2) NUKE9.13, BBBence.
Tough Crawlers:
Plasma Carbine: (1) Kashykk
Spoiler: yet more revisions (click to show/hide)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 16, 2018, 02:20:38 pm
Quote
Elder´s ScornNormal : 4+1 = 5 (Average)
While our current air battles are going very good at the moment, we cannot allow Humanity to recover more of the Ethereal technology if we hope to defeat them while they remain foolish and primitive. They already have on their control several of our craft, which they surely have used to improve on their puny "technology".
Elerium-115, our main energy source, has shown a remarkable stability when degrading it in a controlled environment, so its energy can power our ships and equipment. However, by rising quickly the temperature and the pressure of the engine, we can make it enter into a highly radioactive and volatile state, which powered with some plasma detonators installed near should release all of their energy with an explosive blast that should make most of the components useless and deadly irradiated, greatly increasing the cost and feasibility of salvage operations and killing troops near the area of the blast.
I propose to monitor our troops life signals and automatically detonate it if the tripulation dies or becomes unconscious.
The Elder's scorn is significant adaption to our UFO power sources. Under normal circumstances, our power sources provide plentiful energy by bombarding Elerium with accelerated particles. The bombarding particles are transformed by the unique atomic structure of the crystal into pure energy, which when captured powers the entire UFO.
Despite the tremendous energies involved, it's use as a self destruct is not that straightforward. Significant upgrades need to be made to the reactor's containment fields, regulators and fuel injectors in order to even approach power levels required to obliterate a craft entirely. Because of this, damage to the craft can easily render the self destruct non-functional, and simulations indicate we will have to destroy combat-viable craft if we want to avoid loss of self-destruct capability.
On the ground, other restrictions pose themselves. The crew detection systems are not particularly long ranged, requiring the crew to stay close to the craft at all time.
Note : This is indeed a normal success. Balance happens.
Battle
Mission 1
Quote
Target: Egypt
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, Meld Container (1EP), 1x Skin Crawler (FREE).
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
The operation is nearly complete by the time XCOM arrives on the site. With howling engines the lone Skyranger drops down towards the town. Plasma reaches out to meet it, a near miss scorching the hull as the pilot makes evasive maneuvers. Forced to back of for the moment, the Skyranger sets down among the dunes on the outskirts of the town.
Railgun shot after railgun shot tears through the buildings, as sectoids and Skin Crawlers try to close to the enemy. The enemy is smart, never staying too long in one position, moving quickly and maintaining distance. It's a strategy that would have worked, where it not for the gift. Knowing the enemy location, the sectoids push carefully here and there, herding the enemy even at the cost of their own lives.
And then suddenly, it's over. Two dead bodies turn out not to be quite as dead as expected, the Skin crawlers jumping up and blasting the enemy at close range.
We have acquired a modest amount of interesting DNA sequences, as well as some more conventional material. At the same time, our Sectoids have more closely identified one of the psionic signals, apparently somewhere in Cairo;
Loot Gained : 1 DNA Token, 1 UP
Auxiliary objective : A psionic signal of some strength is present in the vicinity of Egypt
Mission 2
Quote
Target: Mexico
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Combat here is over nearly as soon as it begins. An XCOM Raven, diving out of the sky, firing a barrage of missiles. The ECM is activated, but somehow the missiles cut through. Despite a last minute desperate dodging attempt, our Small Scout is reduced to falling debris.
Mission Failed : UFO Destroyed
Mission 3
Quote
Target: France
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1x Scout Drone (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Our UFO has barely entered the atmosphere, when a flurry of missiles streaks towards it. Not from a fighter, but from a small island in the Aegean sea. Destruction is rapid, the vehicle destroyed by unusually advanced missiles, similar to those used by XCOM.
Mission Failed : UFO Destroyed
Mission 4
Quote
Target: Japan
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP), 1 Scout Drone (1EP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
The mission in Japan went of the rails, and fast. Shortly after landing, several armed human groups engaged our forces, damaging several scout drones and wounding some of our Sectoids. Worse even, our Sectoid's Mind Merge didn't work on these unusual combatants, with unusual neural feedback patterns distorting the link completely.
Deprived of terrain knowledge and with inferior numbers, our forces where being gradually driven back. Great losses were inflicted along the way, our plasma pistols still vastly superior to their archaic guns, but the enemy spent lives eagerly to keep up the pressure. Within a short span of time, our forces were isolated from their UFO and killed.
Interestingly, telemetry from the UFO indicates that XCOM Skyrangers were still 30 minutes away from the site when combat. One wonders where the enemy came from.
Mission Failed : UFO captured
Mission 5
Quote
Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1xSmall Scout (1VP), masquerading as a Medium-sized craft.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (1UP)
Objective: Harvest+Investigate Signal
Despite our high hopes, the enemy only send one fighter to investigate our deception. The enemy fighter approaches slow, clearly wary of our great energy signature. Once he comes in range and the truth is revealed, a barrage of missiles makes quick work of our Small Scout.
Mission Failed : UFO Destroyed
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 6
AABBCCDD
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 16, 2018, 02:32:34 pm
Quote
Savage Reavers:
The Lesser Muton project while a failure because of a lack of understanding between combining the human genome and the muton's inability to breath and live in earth's biosphere, we have utilize the DNA from our harvests from difference to creatures to to an even greater effect to allow us to create warriors based off the muton genome. The Reavers are all slender creatures, partway between mantis and various reptilian species with a combination of muton DNA that makes them have an appearance of a anthropoid. The Reavers are 7 feet tall and athletically built for something with its size, with a dark grey-blue exoskeleton. They use this in combination with their raw willpower to survive great amounts of damage. They fight with a terrible cunning and yet savagery with the aggressive nature of the Mutons, using their bladed forearms and sharp mandibles to rip their enemies apart should they find themselves in close quarters, and they show brutal practicality to demoralize and break foes, they even feel motivated when they can perform brutalities against their enemies. Their main strength, however, is intelligence. Reavers are implanted with genetic memory of various tactics and strategies that were imprinted within the Mutons, and can use this to plan around our enemies actions and lead our troops. However, they lack any propensity for the Gift.
Physically they are, as stated, a hybrid of mantids and various reptilian species with a combination of Muton DNA that makes them appear more like a primate. They have well built legs based on a recreation of ancient Earth reptilians, ending in iguana-like feet, good for climbing and traversing rough terrain. Their arms are similarly well built, but on the underside of their forearms they possess the blades of a mantis. Rather than the third limb segment possessed by most mantids for gripping, the Reavers have three-fingered hands with an opposable thumb, for wielding guns. Their torso is mostly reptilian, and they have a large mantis abdomen coming off where the tail would be, situated at an angle where it touches the ground when they stand straight, but comes out straight back when they are in their forward leaning fighting posture. Their head is a hybrid between mantis and serpent, with the mantid eyes and mandibles, but a serpent structure. It's covered by a layer of bone like a mask, hence their name, which unhinges, opening along a center line, shedding away their elegant and oddly beautiful facade to reveal the frightening truth.
One third mantoids and their brutality, the resistance of the reptilian race, and the primitive savagery yet tactical imprint from the Muton
Quote from: Vote Box
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2018, 02:48:00 pm
France in that a ground based missile system was what downed the UFO. Utilizing their ECM penetrating missiles. Mark France for investigation. Possible firebase location?
Japan is anomalous in that what appears to have been a third party engaged in significant numbers using conventional ballistics prior to Xcom arrival. It is not unlikely that Xcom did not recieve the captured UFO due to the third party. Likely a group localized to Japan.
Cario, Egypt is to be marked for investigation due to the psionic signal.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 16, 2018, 03:00:17 pm
We tracked down the psionic signal, got a lead on (one of) XCOM's base(s), and learnt about what I'm going to assume are Exalt operating out of Japan.
We also learnt that they have upgraded their sensors, since they didn't fall for our deception. It is possible that their missiles are likewise utilising these advanced sensors to bypass our ECM.
E: And, assuming that the Japanese Mystery Men confiscated our UFO for themselves, XCOM got none of our tech this turn!
E2: Although, it's not all fun and games. Our revision was more or less wasted.
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2018, 03:19:25 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on January 16, 2018, 04:11:07 pm
One ship to one ship, in the air, we lose.
Thus we clearly need to fix our air more.
Quote from: Terran-Augmented Scout
Our Small Scout is first and foremost a space vessel, not a terran air fighter. Having now spent significant amounts of time combating xcom fighters we know all the flaws in our vessel. This is thus a complete redesign, converting it from a space ship operating in atmosphere to an atmosphere vessel than can function in space.
The ship keeps it's ability to move in any direction, but the hull is sculpted to actualy be aerodynamic, now that that is our primary area of operations. Additionally, we now have intimate experience in their air to air missiles. This allows us to modify our hull to be resistant to this method of attack, as well as fitting small point defence plasma cannons to the hull for additional defence. We may lose strength against other forms of attack, but if they aren't using them it's pointers to consider them right now.
With regards to carry capacity and cost, it should stay the same.
A second generation scout should easily outclass their fighters, whilst all the changes are basic iterative improvements and thus it should've be a hard design.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 16, 2018, 04:15:49 pm
We could design a real Medium Harvester. Or a Basic Cloaking Device, with which to simply avoid air combat entirely. Although given the ineffectiveness of the self-destruct thing, I suspect that the BCD might likewise not be very effective, for balance's sake.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 16, 2018, 04:37:33 pm
If we went for something to hide from Radar we could get to oldcom levels of stealth. Probably not much better thanks to balance but it's worth a thought.
Edit: Also I'm absolutely certain that France got shot down by an Xcom base. It'd be moronic to do that whilst they've only got one, but we should definitely see about developing missions to pinpoint and destroy it. Every base of theirs we destroy is one more victory for us after all.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 16, 2018, 05:39:45 pm
Incidentally,
Quote
Additionally, we now have intimate experience in their air to air missiles. This allows us to modify our hull to be resistant to this method of attack, as well as fitting small point defence plasma cannons to the hull for additional defence. We may lose strength against other forms of attack, but if they aren't using them it's pointers to consider them right now.Did you forget they used railguns on their interceptors that one time:
Quote from: Prior turn
Curiously, the Raven's do not fire a second salvo, closing in instead. A deadly close range exchange is the result, plasma fire tearing through the two Raven's. But the medium fighters do not escape unscatched, having suffered several armor penetrations. Were there used to be additional missiles, the Terrans had instead fitted some kind of pods that launched shells with tremendous velocity. They only got to fire a few, but each tore 2 nice holes through the ship.
I reckon we either do the Lesser Muton again (using the DNA token), possibly with some minor differences (but not a total overhaul like SC suggested, since we want to make use of the experience gained from the failed project), or a Medium Harvester:
Medium Harvester: Scouts are great and all for, you know, scouting, but the time has come to ramp up our operations. The Medium Harvester has a larger core and propulsion system, three plasma turrets (located equal distances around the circumference of the craft), and room for twice the troop loadout of the Small Scout. In addition, it has greatly increased capacity for storing captives and materials, with substantially more holding cells and a small operating room where preliminary research may be conducted. So far, so simply an upscaled Scout. However, the Medium Harvester also features a basic tractor beam, that can be used to lift things from the surface without having to land/send troops to lug it back to the craft.
All in all, the Medium Harvester is designed to drastically improve the returns from our harvesting operations, and open the door for larger-scale resource acquisition.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 16, 2018, 05:53:36 pm
I'd be happy with either a Lesser Muton mk2 or the Harvester, but I'll vote for the Harvester as we are needing new air units more.
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (1) Kashyyk
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2018, 05:55:45 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on January 16, 2018, 06:11:34 pm
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SCI think it's about time we get bigger UFOs.
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (2) Kashyyk, Puppyguard
Let's do point defence as a revision.
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2018, 06:20:36 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 16, 2018, 06:22:00 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 16, 2018, 06:22:57 pm
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SCAs much as I would like to see my old Reavers used and revamped, I think we need a good ship. Fighters are nice and all, but they take up VP without providing any sort of reward. If we can manage to cheapen them down to one point I'd be fine with sending them out all the time but at two they restrict us far too heavily to be solely combat ships with no other capacity.
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Failbird105
Post by: TopHat on January 16, 2018, 07:03:47 pm
Fighters are nice and all, but they take up VP without providing any sort of reward. If we can manage to cheapen them down to one point I'd be fine with sending them out all the time but at two they restrict us far too heavily to be solely combat ships with no other capacity.I think we'd be better off trying to improve the light fighter than cheapen the medium, hence my revision proposal last turn. Though given X-Com's shift back to missiles that may need to be edited a bit.
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2018, 07:19:54 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 17, 2018, 09:57:12 am
For that, the harvester looks good (though maybe lose the tractor beam?)Hmm. Thing is, then it's just a Medium Scout. Which we could do, I suppose. I was going to say it'd be an Easy design, but both fighters were Normal difficulty, so it's possible that I'm underestimating the difficulty of designing craft.
Medium Scout: Sometimes, it is the size that matters. So it is with this design. The Medium Scout has a larger core and propulsion system, three plasma turrets (located equal distances around the circumference of the craft), and room for twice the troop loadout of the Small Scout. In addition, it has an increased capacity for storing captives and materials, with more holding cells and a small operating room where preliminary research may be conducted. It is, more or less, just an upscaled scout, capable of more intensive missions.
Naturally, we have scaled up the toughness as well as the size; by having all critical systems in the center of the ship, any incoming fire has to get through not only the outer armour, but also the outer ring of miscellaneous rooms (the dividing wall between them and the center is also armoured).
The Medium Scout has the same shape as the Small Scout, but is about twice the size.
Yeah, I think I actually prefer this. Less risk of it being too hard, and if it is Easy, well, that just means we get a better end product.
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Failbird105
Medium Scout: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: Failbird105 on January 17, 2018, 10:47:49 am
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SCYeah, let's not take any risks for a relatively minor reward.
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (2) Kashyyk, Puppyguard
Medium Scout: (2) NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Post by: piratejoe on January 17, 2018, 03:02:13 pm
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SCTractor beam, nuff said.
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (2) NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 17, 2018, 03:10:19 pm
+ 1 to medium scout
We probably need to do something about xcom getting edge in the air. Also we need bomber to burn their land installations aswell.
Post by: ~Neri on January 17, 2018, 03:37:49 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 17, 2018, 03:39:54 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 17, 2018, 04:20:00 pm
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on January 17, 2018, 06:52:15 pm
And I am not posting any new designs. The healing factor berserkers were just not popular.
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 17, 2018, 08:52:08 pm
Medium Scout Proposal B - Air Support
Sometimes, it is the size that matters. So it is with this design. The Medium Scout has a larger core and propulsion system, three plasma turrets (located equal distances around the circumference of the craft), and a retractable plasma turret positioned underside to allow the UFO to support ground forces in action and room for twice the troop loadout of the Small Scout. In addition, it has an increased capacity for storing captives and materials, with more holding cells and a small operating room where preliminary research may be conducted. It is, more or less, just an upscaled scout, capable of more intensive missions.
Naturally, we have scaled up the toughness as well as the size; by having all critical systems in the center of the ship, any incoming fire has to get through not only the outer armour, but also the outer ring of miscellaneous rooms (the dividing wall between them and the center is also armoured).
The Medium Scout has the same shape as the Small Scout, but is about twice the size.
Is it immoral that I just copy pasted NUKE's proposal? Also, they have railguns that can punch clean in and out of our Alien Alloy armored craft, so no amount of layers will be able to stop that methinks.
Also - I think they have some sort of base in the Aegean Sea (obvious) and ground deployment capabilities in Japan, or more places. Future things to investigate.
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, sprinkled chariot
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 18, 2018, 05:18:19 am
We need better ground game, like a lot because their max toys come from capturing our shit. I say the new trooper/gun thing.Except we're getting hammered in the air, whilst we can win on the ground.
Is it immoral that I just copy pasted NUKE's proposal?Nah, it's fine.
Quote
Also, they have railguns that can punch clean in and out of our Alien Alloy armored craft, so no amount of layers will be able to stop that methinks.Hmm. Their missiles, though, will detonate against the outer hull. And their missiles seem more dangerous.
Quote
Also - I think they have some sort of base in the Aegean Sea (obvious) and ground deployment capabilities in Japan, or more places. Future things to investigate.Yeah, Aegean Sea outpost (probably not main base) is definitely a thing. The troops in Japan... seems unlikely that they are XCOM, since they had shitty weapons, and also the update mentions that a Skyranger was on its way. Nah, it's almost certainly Exalt.
Anyway, the problem with the Air Support thing is that when our troops are fighting on the ground, the Medium Scout would be on the ground also (having either landed, or been shot down). We could give our fighters air-support capacity.
Or we could put a mortar on top of the craft, rather than a turret underneath. Provide some 'artillery' support, sort of thing. Something like this:
Quote
, an Elerium Mortar (a weapon capable of launching impact-detonated Elerium Grenades for considerable distances) to provide support during ground combat,
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 18, 2018, 09:10:48 am
Medium Scout Proposal C - Artillery Support
Sometimes, it is the size that matters. So it is with this design. The Medium Scout has a larger core and propulsion system, three plasma turrets (located equal distances around the circumference of the craft), an Elerium Mortar (a weapon capable of launching impact-detonated Elerium Grenades for considerable distances) to provide support during ground combat, and room for twice the troop loadout of the Small Scout. In addition, it has an increased capacity for storing captives and materials, with more holding cells and a small operating room where preliminary research may be conducted. It is, more or less, just an upscaled scout, capable of more intensive missions.
Naturally, we have scaled up the toughness as well as the size; by having all critical systems in the center of the ship, any incoming fire has to get through not only the outer armour, but also the outer ring of miscellaneous rooms (the dividing wall between them and the center is also armoured).
The Medium Scout has the same shape as the Small Scout, but is about twice the size.
I think this deals with our present issues pretty well, so I'll be voting for it. I could be convinced that it's too ambitious, though.
And if we are sending more expensive craft we should eventually upgrade our base. But we should retry Lesser Mutons for our revision this time.
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (3) NUKE9.13, Failbird105, sprinkled chariot
Medium Scout C: (1) SamSpeeds
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 18, 2018, 10:21:44 am
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SCYeah, alright, let's glue a mortar on there, why not.
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (3) Kashyyk, Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (2) Failbird105, sprinkled chariot
Medium Scout C: (2) SamSpeeds, NUKE9.13
I wouldn't be surprised if a Medium Scout/Harvester cost 3VP. We will definitely want to look into base upgrades to increase our VP soon.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 18, 2018, 10:25:34 am
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (2) Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (2) Failbird105, sprinkled chariot
Medium Scout C: (3) SamSpeeds, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Post by: Failbird105 on January 18, 2018, 12:46:17 pm
Quote
Savage Reavers: (1) SC
+ DNA Token: (1) SC
Medium Harvester: (2) Puppyguard, Piratejoe
Medium Scout: (1) sprinkled chariot
Medium Scout C: (4) SamSpeeds, NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, Failbird105
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 18, 2018, 03:31:27 pm
Quote
Spend 1UP Token on Skin CrawlersThe idea being that XCOM may be confused by the lone scout, and believe we have developed cloaking or something, and thus send a disproportionate response after it. Hey, it could happen. At the very least they will send one interceptor after it, which is one less to target our main mission to Brazil, which will have a large crew to fight off XCOM (On the basis that 1 unit of Skin Crawlers=1 unit of XCOM, we should be able to defeat them this way).
Depending on whether Medium Scout costs 2 or 3VP, either save the Joker Token or spend it on a Small Scout.Quote from: Mission 1Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1x Medium Scout (2-3VP), 1x Medium Fighter (2VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, 1xMeld Container (1UP, 1EP), 1xScout Drone (1UP), 2x Skin Crawler, 1xElerium Grenades (4UP, 1EP), 1xSkin Crawler (Infiltrated)(Free).
Objective: HarvestQuote from: Mission 2Target: Australia
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (1VP or Joker Token, depending)
Crew: 1x Sectoid (Free)
Objective: Harvest
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 20, 2018, 09:11:19 am
Quote
Medium Scout Proposal C - Artillery SupportHard : 4 + 3 -1 = 6 Above Average
Sometimes, it is the size that matters. So it is with this design. The Medium Scout has a larger core and propulsion system, three plasma turrets (located equal distances around the circumference of the craft), an Elerium Mortar (a weapon capable of launching impact-detonated Elerium Grenades for considerable distances) to provide support during ground combat, and room for twice the troop loadout of the Small Scout. In addition, it has an increased capacity for storing captives and materials, with more holding cells and a small operating room where preliminary research may be conducted. It is, more or less, just an upscaled scout, capable of more intensive missions.
Naturally, we have scaled up the toughness as well as the size; by having all critical systems in the center of the ship, any incoming fire has to get through not only the outer armour, but also the outer ring of miscellaneous rooms (the dividing wall between them and the center is also armoured).
The Medium Scout has the same shape as the Small Scout, but is about twice the size.
The Medium Scout is a large UFO, designed to deploy and support troops on the ground. It's powered by an enlarged elerium core, which together with an upscaled gravity wave propulsion system allows it to retain most of the smaller Scout's agility and speed. These systems, together with the bridge, are held inside the armored core of the vessel, where they should be better protected from incoming projectiles.
Wrapped around the core are several large open spaces, some of which have been subdivided into smaller rooms. Filled with a plethora of auxiliary equipment, such as life support systems or lab equipment, these should allow the Medium Scout to better fulfill it's mission. Combined with it's larger carrying capacity, the medium scout can thus deploy 4 squads of units at once. Supporting these units is an elerium Mortar, a simple weapon that sits in it's own armored bulb on top of the main hull. Given proper coordinates, it can lob elerium grenades at distant targets with reasonable accuracy.
For defenses, the UFO relies on 3 plasma turrets located an equal distance around the hull.
Invasion
We're still aware of a psionic signal in Egypt. Other signals in other places exist too.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Invasion
Turn 6
AABBCCDD
Post by: Failbird105 on January 20, 2018, 10:12:08 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 20, 2018, 10:50:58 am
So, yeah, I suggest we spend the Joker Token on a Small Scout. I figure we will always be able to find a use for one of those. Like in this plan, where it serves to divert XCOM's attention from our main mission:
Quote from: Plan A
Spend 1UP Token on Skin Crawlers
Spend Joker Token on Small ScoutQuote from: Mission 1Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1x Medium Scout (3VP), 1x Medium Fighter (2VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, 1xMeld Container (1UP, 1EP), 1xScout Drone (1UP), 2x Skin Crawler, 1xElerium Grenades (4UP, 1EP), 1xSkin Crawler (Infiltrated)(Free).
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)Quote from: Mission 2Target: Australia
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (Free) masquerading as a Medium Scout.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (Free)
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)
Post by: Kashyyk on January 20, 2018, 12:23:41 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 20, 2018, 12:41:29 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on January 20, 2018, 05:45:54 pm
Quote from: Votes
[1] Plan A: Kashyyk
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 21, 2018, 02:05:42 am
Post by: ~Neri on January 21, 2018, 02:11:08 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 21, 2018, 02:44:41 am
In 4 engagements in row they just instantly sniped our scout drones, instead of drones we can probably set up elder scorn On every our mission, just in case.Not sure what you mean by this. They can snipe sectoids as well. And we cannae replace them with (the all-but useless) Elder's Scorn, since it costs EP.
Post by: ~Neri on January 21, 2018, 02:45:45 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 21, 2018, 03:03:32 am
But given that that is a very powerful thing, it comes at a cost.
Post by: ~Neri on January 21, 2018, 03:18:14 am
Post by: TopHat on January 21, 2018, 06:45:48 am
1. I'd recommend shifting the location of both missions (or at least the main one) to new ones or Egypt, and adding the investigate signal objective. We may as well try to locate more of the signals or get a better fix on the Egyption one.
2. I would also recommend using ECM to make the small scout look like a medium one and the fighter look like a small scout. Increasing the threat profile of the decoy can't hurt, and hiding the fighter could hopefully trick them into sending less fighters and more troops, which we are better able to deal with.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 21, 2018, 06:57:41 am
2. Making the Medium Fighter appear to be a Small Scout would be a good idea, except:
Quote
As a secundary feature, we can boost our ships radar signatures, making it appear far more threathening than it actually is. However, emissions strengthened in such way will be far easier to spot.Which I believe means they will detect our craft sooner, and have a better chance of shooting them down.
Making the Small Scout appear to be a Medium craft might be an idea, though. I didn't include it since they appeared to be totally unphased by our deception last turn, but on re-reading the turn, it does say their interceptor was acting like it expected to run into something stronger, so maybe they just figured their upgraded missiles would be enough to defeat a medium craft?
So, okay, I'll change mission 2 to appear as a Medium craft.
Quote from: Votes
[2] Plan A: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7672722#msg7672722) Kashyyk, NUKE9.13
Post by: piratejoe on January 21, 2018, 09:50:44 am
Quote from: Votes
[3] Plan A: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7672722#msg7672722) Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe
Post by: Puppyguard on January 21, 2018, 02:21:48 pm
Quote from: Votes
[4] Plan A: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7672722#msg7672722) Kashyyk, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Puppyguard
Post by: TopHat on January 22, 2018, 11:00:55 am
Quote
1. We haven't investigated the signal in either Brazil or Australia yet. And we don't have the necessary mission type to follow up on the Egyptian signal.Fair enough. I thought we might be able to get a better location fix on the Egyptian one with a second mission there, but having looked it over again I doubt that'll work. I am slightly concerned though that repeated attacks on these countries will provoke X-Com to build air-to-ground bases there; since there is little benefit from choosing them other other countries this round I see no reason to do so.
Quote
2. ...
As for the increased detection chance, the larger craft will probably be easier to spot anyway, and the odds are already highly in favour of detection. All this'll do is (probably) increase the chances of us being intercepted in the air as opposed to the ground. I think that's worth the possibility of nudging them towards a more favourable (for us) fighter-to-troop carrier ratio.
Quote
maybe they just figured their upgraded missiles would be enough to defeat a medium craft?
That was my conclusion, since it's probably true - as is, they'll get to fire off all of their missiles before entering plasma cannon range, most of which will probably hit. The only question is whether our new ship will still be mission capable afterwards. (Incidentally, this was the reason I didn't suggest sending the fighter with the decoy instead of the main mission - if our new ship could reliably beat an interceptor one-to-one then that might be a better course of action.)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on January 22, 2018, 12:16:47 pm
Quote from: Plan A
Spend 1UP Token on Skin Crawlers[/quote]
Spend Joker Token on Small ScoutQuote from: Mission 1Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1x Medium Scout (3VP), 1x Medium Fighter (2VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, 1xMeld Container (1UP, 1EP), 1xScout Drone (1UP), 2x Skin Crawler, 1xElerium Grenades (4UP, 1EP), 1xSkin Crawler (Infiltrated)(Free).
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)Quote from: Mission 2Target: Australia
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (Free) masquerading as a Medium Scout.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (Free)
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)
Missions launched.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision
Turn 6
AABBCCDD
Post by: Kashyyk on January 22, 2018, 12:55:59 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on January 22, 2018, 01:10:30 pm
Revision: Energy Field Plating
A new, more powerful armor that is applied to our existing UFOs starting with the new medium scout. The material is a modified alien alloy which conducts a powerful energy field fed by the power core. The field forces the material into it's default shape on the atomic and macroscopic level, drastically reducing the effect of all forms of damage.
Revision: Stealth Drones
A modification to the Scout Drone with a color changing surface, faster movement and a more advanced AI that can keep it out of sight. A plasma pistol is added in addition to the non-lethal weaponry.
Revision: Zombie Meld
With knowledge about the humans gained we can start our real work. This functions as normal meld, but when placed on living captured humans the nano machines migrate to the brain and alter it to allow receptivity to the great mind. While the link is weak in most humans, it is enough to make them see our forces as good and friends and the enemy as evil and hated. The result is easy roundup of effected humans and an added combat force armed with human weapons during land operations.
Revision: Focused Harvest
Used in areas with unusual signals or effects, the UFOs scout out the location from the air first then land and quickly capture likely subjects responsible. Defensive installation are bombarded from the air if possible before landing to reduce local resistance.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 22, 2018, 01:14:06 pm
I suggest creating a new mission type for identifying and pinpointing XCom bases, followed by a base invasion mission. Or if you guys don't think that's worth it, creating a search and destroy mission to do both in one. They were foolish enough to tip us off to their missiles base so we may as well make the most of it.That'd be a design, I think. We're on revisions at the moment.
If we want to counter their missiles, I can think of several options. Like these two:
Defensive Plasma Wave: Our plasma turrets can be reworked to serve as an anti-missile measure. By simply not applying a strong enough bond to the expelled plasma, it will, rather than travelling as a single blast, spread out from the turret like a wave. Though this diffuse plasma is unlikely to cause serious damage to larger craft, it should be enough to detonate missiles.
On detecting incoming missiles, our vessels will turn all available turrets (or the ship itself) to face them, and unleash the plasma wave. This may not destroy all missiles, but it should reduce their number considerably.
Reinforced Craft: When we came to this world, we were not expecting stiff opposition. As such, our craft are ill-equipped to deal with the Earthling's missiles. Their hulls are paper-thin, their internals fragile. Simply adding an extra layer of Alloy onto our hulls, and around critical components, will drastically increase survivability in the face of a missile attack.
PPE: EFP is good, but I worry it might increase the cost of our craft.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 22, 2018, 01:20:21 pm
By ehnacing our turret targeting routines with new superior programming, we did let them to switch between interception and ground support mode.
When intercepting turrets focus fire on incoming missiles first and enemy aircraft second.
And in ground support subroutine they unleash the fury of ships plasma weaponry against ground targets.
Also, duh, did not notice that scout drones cost UP instead of vp.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 22, 2018, 04:10:52 pm
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (1): SC
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Plasma Carbines:
Quote
Plasma Carbine:
Our plasma pistol is weak and yet still utilizes advanced technology, we needed a more efficient weapon. One that can suit various purposes while also being powerful and compact in its form. The carbine has more range, up to the Medium range spectrum compared to its predecessor, and can exert a lot more powerful and condense plasma down range compared to its predecessor Pistol cartridge.
Post by: Kashyyk on January 22, 2018, 04:12:18 pm
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (1): SC
Plasma Carbines: (1): Kashyyk
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 22, 2018, 06:20:25 pm
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (1): SC
Plasma Carbines: (2): Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
We still need a ground overhaul and I think we would be better off with dedicated point defense instead.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on January 23, 2018, 06:53:16 am
Post by: Failbird105 on January 23, 2018, 07:17:59 am
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (2): SC, Sprinkled Chariot
Plasma Carbines: (2): Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Not sure what to vote on yet, I'll make up my mind later.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 23, 2018, 07:24:57 am
Quote from: Design Choices from Respective Teams
Scout Drones + Mind Merge + Moon Base
Light Fighter + Human Sectoids
Medium Fighter + Recruitment + Mediocre ECM
Skin Crawler + Better ECM
Lesser Muton + Elder Scorn (Both Failures)
Medium Lander + Question
Recon Satellites + Tryhard Recruits + Base in the Aegean Sea?...
??? + ???
Railguns + Air Strike Mission + Revision spent on fixing their rifles?...
Railguns on Aircraft + ???
ECM-countering Missiles + ???
I think we can always do further improvement to the Lesser Mutons, to make them combat capable, the Elder Scorn can be improved I'd imagine as well (maybe without costing points). I think a satellite-destroying UFO the Size of a Medium for a next design seems effective, or maybe we try and create another base?, or try creating a UFO Production Bay so that we can get access to more UFOs? I believe the main problem is lack of UFOs and not aliens or equipment. Or go for Lesser Mutons again.
Edit: Our Medium Fighter has a mortar, and we have psionic omniscient from the sectoids, the plasma carbines are tempting but improvements to countering their missiles need to happen... the more I look at it the need for more UFO to Act at escorts needs to happen.
Post by: Failbird105 on January 23, 2018, 07:35:36 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on January 23, 2018, 07:42:53 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 23, 2018, 07:54:25 am
I mean, look. If we win missions, we get tokens. If XCOM wins missions, they get tokens. That's just how it's gonna be. We should develop tech that prevents XCOM from winning missions, not that prevents them from getting tokens.
Post by: TopHat on January 23, 2018, 12:27:05 pm
I was thinking that we may want to overhaul ground next turn (probably muton + carbine/rifle) then design a new mission (investigation / base assault) the turn after that, if nothing else comes up.
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (3): SC, Sprinkled Chariot, TopHat
Plasma Carbines: (2): Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 23, 2018, 12:37:55 pm
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:Yeah, alright. Like, to be clear, I don't expect DPW to knock every missile out of the sky, but it should knock out a few.
Defensive Plasma Wave: (4): SC, Sprinkled Chariot, TopHat, NUKE9.13
Plasma Carbines: (2): Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Post by: Failbird105 on January 23, 2018, 12:52:09 pm
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:Still not entirely sure, but I do agree that we need to ensure we can make it to missions.
Defensive Plasma Wave: (5): SC, Sprinkled Chariot, TopHat, NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Plasma Carbines: (2): Kashyyk, SamSpeeds
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 24, 2018, 09:23:33 am
Quote from: Revision Box
Voted Revisions:
Defensive Plasma Wave: (6): SC, Sprinkled Chariot, TopHat, NUKE9.13, Failbird105, SamSpeeds
Plasma Carbines: (1): Kashyyk,
Not Voted Revisions:
Energy Field Plating
Stealth Drones
Zombie Meld
Focused Harvest
Reinforced Craft
Enhanced Targeting Algorithm
Are we planning on sending a mission to investigate Cairo next turn? Because that's where the successful investigation pointed us, right? I'm not sure we'll find anything this time. If that's the case, let's all go down to Cairo!
Also, we need more manpower + EP and should get a new base as soon as Lesser Mutons and Carbines (which I think are the next logical steps) are done.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 24, 2018, 10:04:11 am
Post by: SamSpeeds on January 24, 2018, 11:19:18 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 11, 2018, 04:13:49 pm
Quote
Defensive Plasma Wave: Our plasma turrets can be reworked to serve as an anti-missile measure. By simply not applying a strong enough bond to the expelled plasma, it will, rather than travelling as a single blast, spread out from the turret like a wave. Though this diffuse plasma is unlikely to cause serious damage to larger craft, it should be enough to detonate missiles.Normal : 3 +2
On detecting incoming missiles, our vessels will turn all available turrets (or the ship itself) to face them, and unleash the plasma wave. This may not destroy all missiles, but it should reduce their number considerably.
Plasma turrets are complicated pieces of technology. The complex interplay of plasma generation, magnetic containment and high ejection velocity needs to be carefully calibrated, lest the plasma bolt simply disintegrate and dissipate into the surrounding air. Luckily for us, ensuring that that occurs is a comparatively far more simple affair. By simply lowering containment strength and ejection power while increasing the firing cycle duration and sending the burst directly into the propulsive grav wave, we can shroud large parts of our vessels in a veritable shield of plasma for a short period of time.
The Defensive plasma wave can automatically reconfigure available vehicle plasma weapons into an integrated defensive system that destroys missiles at close range, though offensive firepower is lost until the weapon configuration is shifted back. In addition, seeing a UFO burst out of it's own shell of plasma is an awe-inspiring sight.
Quote
Target: Brazil
Vehicle: 1x Medium Scout (3VP), 1x Medium Fighter (2VP)
Crew: 1x Sectoid, 1xMeld Container (1UP, 1EP), 1xScout Drone (1UP), 2x Skin Crawler, 1xElerium Grenades (4UP, 1EP), 1xSkin Crawler (Infiltrated)(Free).
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)
Agent Blue sat calmly in the cafe, reading his morning paper while nursing his tea. With a tentacle, he adjusted his parasol to keep the sun out of his large eyes, then turned back to his article. THE ALIEN MENACE it said atop the page in bold, angry letters. Not a flattering article, and rather creative with it's facts too. After all, Agent Blue was certainly no mindless brute, and he couldn't phase through walls.
In the distance, a smoldering car exploded, remnant of the recent attack. By now, the Scout and it's fighter should be well on their way in orbit, taking the captives with them. Agent Blue wasn't disappointed to be part of the infiltration squad and having to stay behind. It was what they did, and it was what they were good at. One certainly couldn't expect a Sectoid to infiltrate human society. The wretched creatures couldn't even figure out pants. They'd bungle the mission in an instant.
Thinking about bungling a mission, he wondered what was taking Agent Lime so long. Getting a drink shouldn't take so long, even for batch-fresh amateur like him. Probably got distracted by the Sushi place again. Or maybe a television, an abandoned car, or just a candy wrapper. The younglings were too curious for his own good. Sighing, Agent Blue finished his tea, straightened his coat and went of to search for his protege.
High above them, in the Sky of Brazil, a desperate fight was occurring between XCOM Ravens and the landing force. The defensive plasma wave had succesfully negated most of XCOM's missiles, leaving only a single scar on the Medium scout, but now both sides were engaging each other in a close-range dog fight. XCOM's railgun pods fired lethal projectiles, tearing holes through the medium Scout even as it's defenses downed one of their own.
Another died not much later, bracketed by plasma barrages until it was an easy target for our medium fighter. An attack unfortunately, that also allowed the last enemy fighter to destroy our fighter with another shot not much later. The last fighter, clearly struggling to keep up as our damaged medium scout continued it's climb managed to fire a single final shot. The projectile hit our Medium Scout dead center, tearing through the bridge and navigation controls. Luckily, the damage was limited to several non-essential subsystems, and our ship was capable of making it's escape.
Mission results : Partial success (1 Fighter destroyed, Medium Scout heavily damaged) Agent Lime and Agent Blue MIA.
Loot : 1 DNA sample, other loot destroyed
We've attained a decent lead on a psionic source of average potential in Brazil.
Quote
Target: Australia
Vehicle: 1x Small Scout (Free) masquerading as a Medium Scout.
Crew: 1x Sectoid (Free)
Objective: Harvest (and investigate signal)
The enemy clearly anticipated our scout's landing here. Our units were confronted by an XCOM team, equipped with railguns as well as what appeared to be some kind of vision enhancing device. We're not entirely sure of it's functioning or purpose, as our sectoid team was methodically and rapidly picked off just moments from landing, before they could get a proper impression.
Mission Failure
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 7
Challenges : The Ethereals have decided to catalogue our enemies equipment. The side which manages to make the best description/analysis of a piece of enemy equipment may win a price.
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 11, 2018, 04:24:32 pm
Well, it wasn't a complete failure. A DNA token is useful.
Probably not as useful as the scout and sectoids are to XCOM, though. So, I think we can rule out using masquerading again, since it lets them get away with only sending Skyrangers.
I'm going to suggest expanding our base, with an eye on increasing VP first and foremost. I'll write a design in a bit.
Post by: piratejoe on February 11, 2018, 04:55:05 pm
Quote from: Primitive Weapon Data Document 12
The current missile weapons utilized by the primitives on the planet they call earth are an interesting and surprisingly advanced design. The weapon is designed in such a way that its sensors are able to strike at our ships despite our ECM, it is also possible that the technology in this missile could, theoretically, use our ECM against us due to the fact our ECM utilizes the main method of tracking via producing a stronger radar signal, although this is unable to be proven at this time. The warhead of this missile presumably has the same level of explosive power as their last missile and has been proven to not do as much damage against our craft compared to their rail gun which is described in Primitive Weapon Data Document 10. It should be possible to outrun or outmaneuver these weapons with proper AI and mobility for our craft, as although current countermeasures have proven effective against their missiles, recent combat has proven that at least one of them are was to slip through the new countermeasures and strike the craft. There are only a few of these on all primitive aircraft, limiting the amount they are able to use before they are forced to switch weapons, however they presumably are fired at a longer range then their secondary armament due to always firing the missiles first. It should be noted it is highly effective against our light scouts and all efforts to move to larger more armored craft should be taken.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 11, 2018, 06:14:33 pm
Quote from: Localised Manufacturing
Luna soil is known to be a quarter aluminium weight, along with various silicates, and oxides. Whilst these aren't the sole components of Alien Alloy, having a number of the ingredients readily at hand will mean we only have to ship some of the materials across interstellar distances. This will make various vessels much cheaper to manufacture.
Post by: TopHat on February 12, 2018, 12:31:31 pm
- The odds are good that this new "vision-enhancing device" is designed to be able to detect our skin crawlers (either as a primary or secondary function). If so, our thin advantage on the ground has just vanished and infiltration has got much harder.
- They still have a decisive advantage in the air, possibly having revised improvements for their aircraft railguns. I'd be willing to bet that they ditch missiles next turn and move solely to railgun craft armament, adding to this advantage. 3 VP worth of fighters on their side were able to defeat 5 VP of craft on ours. This is not a good sign.
- Ironically, our much-maligned self destruct would have worked perfectly on the Australia mission. We should probably consider using them more if we countinue to spread out our forces.
In the air I seriously doubt one or even two extra VP will make enough of a difference. The simple fact of the matter is that their fighters are, point for point, better than any of our aircraft. I think we would be better off trying one of the following:
- Design improved armour for our craft (e.g. Voidslayer's Energy Field Plating). Should increase survivablity and open up an easy revision to make armour for our ground troops. This is at the moment my personal preference for this turn.
- Design a longer-ranged air-to-air weapon for our UFOs. That or revise range/accuracy improvements for our current plasma cannon.
- Improve the light fighter or small scout to bring it's performance up to par with their interceptor. This could probably be doable as a revision, though we may want to spend a design on it to get the best results (especially if we improve the scout).
- Design cloaking. Unlikely to be very effective due to balance reasons, though.
- Focus on something else this turn instead, like ground combat or maybe a new mission.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 12, 2018, 12:45:11 pm
- The odds are good that this new "vision-enhancing device" is designed to be able to detect our skin crawlers (either as a primary or secondary function). If so, our thin advantage on the ground has just vanished and infiltration has got much harder.Oh, dang, you're probably right. Welp.
Quote
- Improve the light fighter or small scout to bring it's performance up to par with their interceptor. This could probably be doable as a revision, though we may want to spend a design on it to get the best results (especially if we improve the scout).This isn't possible, we know this isn't possible. We tried to improve the light fighter before, and got a medium fighter at the same difficulty as the original with a higher cost.
Quote
- Design improved armour for our craft (e.g. Voidslayer's Energy Field Plating). Should increase survivablity and open up an easy revision to make armour for our ground troops. This is at the moment my personal preference for this turn.Hmm. I suppose either of these would be good.
- Design a longer-ranged air-to-air weapon for our UFOs. That or revise range/accuracy improvements for our current plasma cannon.
Yeah, a new weapon would be good. One capable of shooting down Skyrangers, cos as it stands no matter how well we do in the air, unless we get lucky (like this turn in Brazil) and take off before they arrive, XCOM can just drop in the troops anyway (like this turn in Australia). Like, we have to go through two gauntlets and win twice, or no rewards. Whereas XCOM only has to win once.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 12, 2018, 12:46:23 pm
Quote from: Alien Anti-Air Missile
Designed as an alternate weapon to the Plasma Cannons on our vessels, the AAA Missile is a small orb, using the same gravity pulse technology used to move our ships. It is armed with a large, elirium-based explosive and uses very similar piloting and tracking technology to our unmanned fighters. Being a truly, "Smart" missile, this weapon can receive new targets if the previous is destroyed, can identify and track X-Com craft by multiple methods (visual, thermal, radar) and can skilfully predict combat manoeuvres in the same way our fighter can. As it doesn't need a oversized, primitive fuel source a single weapon mount should easily be able to carry multiple missiles internally, deploying as many as needed,.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 12, 2018, 02:21:51 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 13, 2018, 08:54:40 am
Quote from: Bote vox
Alien Anti-Air Missile: (3) Kashyyk, sprinkled chariot, NUKE9.13
Post by: SamSpeeds on February 13, 2018, 09:12:05 am
Quote from: Boat Box
Alien Anti-Air Missile: (4) Kashyyk, sprinkled chariot, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds
Alternate Ideas:
Magnetic Redirect Device
An internal terminal that can exert a powerful magnetic force at range against incoming projectiles. Given sufficient range, it can cause a missile to miss or a slug to strike far off target.
Point Defense Turrets
A miniscule, automated turret with a cutting edge AI targeting system that can register and accurately melt incoming projectiles with directed energy pulses, or increase the density of the Plasma Wave. Cheap enough to be equipped in numbers. Can be used in close range ship to ship combat.
Post by: Puppyguard on February 13, 2018, 03:46:24 pm
Quote from: Oat Locks
Alien Anti-Air Missile: (5) Kashyyk, sprinkled chariot, NUKE9.13, SamSpeeds, Puppyguard.
Post by: TopHat on February 14, 2018, 01:42:50 pm
Missiles sound good, with luck they won't be expecting it and we'll get a round of air dominance. The only downside I can see is that it can't use the plasma wave.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 14, 2018, 01:59:56 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 14, 2018, 02:51:23 pm
Quote
Designed as an alternate weapon to the Plasma Cannons on our vessels, the AAA Missile is a small orb, using the same gravity pulse technology used to move our ships. It is armed with a large, elirium-based explosive and uses very similar piloting and tracking technology to our unmanned fighters. Being a truly, "Smart" missile, this weapon can receive new targets if the previous is destroyed, can identify and track X-Com craft by multiple methods (visual, thermal, radar) and can skilfully predict combat manoeuvres in the same way our fighter can. As it doesn't need a oversized, primitive fuel source a single weapon mount should easily be able to carry multiple missiles internally, deploying as many as needed,.Normal : 1 + 3 = 4 (Below Average)
Closer to a small drone than a missile, the Alien Anti Air Missile is an effective anti air weapon. Equipped with it's own gravity based drive and a full AI core and powered by a potent Elerium cell, it far exceeds the capabilities of all humanities missile weaponry. With it's advanced flight algorithms and powerful warhead, it should be capable of destroying anything human currently in the air.
Unfortunately, all this comes at a price. The missile is not exactly compact, and certainly not cheap.
AAA missile battery : A missile launcher that replaces a normal plasma cannon. Each launcher contains 2 missiles. (Cost 1 EP).
Prepare to launch Invasion :
Your Australian informant, Tamsyn, has worrying news for you. His favorite niece has been kidnapped. Worse even, the kidnappers have not asked for money, but for an alien artifact (some useless debris from the battle) that Tamsyn's research division had acquired. Tamsyn's keeping it quiet for now, but the man appears to be rather worried for his relative's life.
Tamsyn has forwarded you a video from the kidnappers. They don't appear to be XCOM, and don't appear to have any advanced weaponry. Well, none shown, anyway. They demand a handover of the goods soon, taking place in an abandoned ore processing facility.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Invasion
Turn 7
Challenges : The Ethereals have decided to catalogue our enemies equipment. The side which manages to make the best description/analysis of a piece of enemy equipment may win a price.
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 14, 2018, 03:26:25 pm
Anyway. What now? If we want to help out our Australian contact, I'd suggest we Recruit Collaborators there again, on the basis that further infiltration of the country might reveal or give hints as to the location of EXALT's Australian assets, which we can then next turn attack using a designed Assault Facility mission type. Unless someone else has a better idea?
Bearing in mind that we are probably going to get slaughtered on the ground no matter what we do, as we likely don't have enough missiles (4 at most) to shoot down all their Interceptors and still have some left over for their Skyrangers, unless they have a 100% kill rate.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 14, 2018, 03:32:27 pm
Edit: Though to be fair, the mission is a bit too vague. I'll add a bit more info.
Quote
unless they have a 100% kill rate.
A single hit of your AAA can destroy a Small Scout.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 14, 2018, 03:36:27 pm
It's unfortunate that schrodinger's revision means we can't reduce their cost before using them on a mission.
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 14, 2018, 03:55:05 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 14, 2018, 04:57:17 pm
Has anyone made a list yet or do I need to go through the posts and catalogue everything they've ever shown? (Do note that if I have to it's going to be a slow project doe to lack of mobile internet :( )
I have made a attempted list before, I haven’t updated the thing for their designs as of last turn... though
[/quote]
Hmmm looking at this...Quote from: Design Choices from Respective Teams
Scout Drones + Mind Merge + Moon Base
Light Fighter + Human Sectoids
Medium Fighter + Recruitment + Mediocre ECM
Skin Crawler + Better ECM
Lesser Muton + Elder Scorn (Both Failures)
Medium Lander + Question
Recon Satellites + Tryhard Recruits + Base in the Aegean Sea?...
??? + ???
Railguns + Air Strike Mission + Revision spent on fixing their rifles?...
Railguns on Aircraft + ???
ECM-countering Missiles + ???
I think we can always do further improvement to the Lesser Mutons, to make them combat capable, the Elder Scorn can be improved I'd imagine as well (maybe without costing points). I think a satellite-destroying UFO the Size of a Medium for a next design seems effective, or maybe we try and create another base?, or try creating a UFO Production Bay so that we can get access to more UFOs? I believe the main problem is lack of UFOs and not aliens or equipment. Or go for Lesser Mutons again.
Edit: Our Medium Fighter has a mortar, and we have psionic omniscient from the sectoids, the plasma carbines are tempting but improvements to countering their missiles need to happen... the more I look at it the need for more UFO to Act at escorts needs to happen.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 14, 2018, 05:03:13 pm
The help collaborator thing is just the equivalent of a council mission from XCOM. You don't need to design more stuff for it, just throw a few assets at it.Okay... so do we do something like this:
Edit: Though to be fair, the mission is a bit too vague. I'll add a bit more info.
Quote from: Mission 1
Craft: Whatever?
Units: Blah
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: "Rescue Contact's Relative"
Quote
Sure, but do they have 100% accuracy, is the question.Quoteunless they have a 100% kill rate.
A single hit of your AAA can destroy a Small Scout.
It's unfortunate that schrodinger's revision means we can't reduce their cost before using them on a mission.True, but we can increase their ammo count with a revision and have it apply, so long as it doesn't change the size or cost.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:28 pm
Quote from: Mission of Turn 7
Craft: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter ((6 Unit Storage))
Units: 1 ( Free) Infiltrated Skin Crawlers, 1 (Free) Sectoid, 2 Skin Crawlers, 1 Sectoid, 1 UP Scout Drone
Equipment: 1 AAA Missile on Medium Fighter, 1 AAA Missile on Medium Scout
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: “Rescue Contact’s Relative”
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 14, 2018, 05:26:45 pm
Quote
Okay... so do we do something like this
That's it, yes.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 14, 2018, 05:35:28 pm
Notes: Medium Scout is to use ECM to appear as a Large VesselWhat? Why this? ECM has never worked out for us, and it's not like there's another mission for XCOM to go after. What possible benefit could there be to this, especially considering the downside of our craft always being detected?
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 14, 2018, 05:49:56 pm
Notes: Medium Scout is to use ECM to appear as a Large VesselWhat? Why this? ECM has never worked out for us, and it's not like there's another mission for XCOM to go after. What possible benefit could there be to this, especially considering the downside of our craft always being detected?
If there is no penalty or boon for using ECM, I mean it makes little significance to the actual outcome, and provides little tactical variations. I’ll say that the ECM may mean that their interceptors may target us sooner than later, so once we arrive in orbit compared to when we are landed. There really is little boon here except that it makes the ufo more threatening to Xcom eyes, but it might provide a minor delay in Xcoms interception if we don’t use it
Post by: Kashyyk on February 14, 2018, 05:59:33 pm
Post by: piratejoe on February 15, 2018, 12:08:26 am
If Xcom is able to beat this in the sky, der krieg ist verloren...Hopefully this is good enough to take em out. Revision should be something to help us not die horribly on the ground front without going full on USSR style drown them in bodies...Quote from: Mission of Turn 7Craft: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter ((6 Unit Storage))
Units: 1 ( Free) Infiltrated Skin Crawlers, 1 (Free) Sectoid, 2 Skin Crawlers, 1 Sectoid, 1 UP Scout Drone
Equipment: 1 AAA Missile on Medium Fighter, 1 AAA Missile on Medium Scout
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: “Rescue Contact’s Relative”
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 15, 2018, 09:16:17 am
What if we made our medium scouts look small? Then they might under respond and be defeated, instead of over responding and getting sweet lootz.
Jammer only does larger signature.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 15, 2018, 10:18:05 am
Quote from: Votes
Shadowclaw's Plan: (3?) Shadowclaw777, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe?
Post by: Kashyyk on February 15, 2018, 10:21:26 am
Well, with the ECM removed, I can support Shadowclaw's plan.Quote from: VotesShadowclaw's Plan: (4?) Shadowclaw777, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe?, Kashyyk
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 15, 2018, 11:57:19 am
Quote
Turn 1
-small interceptor
-missiles
-reconnaissance droid
-skyranger
Turn 2
-primitive weapons
-Avalanche missiles
Turn 3
-Raven Interceptor
-Railguns
Turn 4
-pods that launched shells with tremendous velocity > Ship based railguns
Turn 5
-somehow the missiles cut through >Missiles that go through jamming
-small island in the Aegean sea > missile base
Unless I missed something, that's all the tech we know of.
Post by: piratejoe on February 15, 2018, 12:05:13 pm
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 15, 2018, 12:41:15 pm
The competition is a description of the enemy's equipment, from what I gathered...I posted a thing on it a while ago.Apparently you are right. I rechecked and they don't want us to catalogur it, they want one analysed.
Post by: TopHat on February 15, 2018, 08:34:58 pm
I'd rather split up; I doubt the resistance posed by the enemies of the special mission will be significant - they probably won't have a large force in the country for fear of alerting the local authorities, and they have no experience against skin crawlers. We have far more to fear from X-Com's ground forces, and we will in my opinion be better off getting them to split. We may improve our infiltration of Australia into the bargain as well. Either force should be able to take on three X-Com fighters with little risk, thanks to the new missiles, so we don't really need to worry about the air this turn.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Votes
Shadowclaw's Plan: (4?) Shadowclaw777, NUKE9.13, Piratejoe?, Kashyyk[/quote]
Plan B: (1) TopHat
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 15, 2018, 09:00:47 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 15, 2018, 10:16:15 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 16, 2018, 08:39:56 am
Quote
Craft: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter ((6 Unit Storage))
Units: 1 ( Free) Infiltrated Skin Crawlers, 1 (Free) Sectoid, 2 Skin Crawlers, 1 Sectoid, 1 UP Scout Drone
Equipment: 1 AAA Missile on Medium Fighter, 1 AAA Missile on Medium Scout
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: “Rescue Contact’s Relative”
Missions launched. Commence revision phase. Don't forget the challenge.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision
Turn 7
Challenges : The Ethereals have decided to catalogue our enemies equipment. The side which manages to make the best description/analysis of a piece of enemy equipment may win a price.
AABBCCDD
Post by: SamSpeeds on February 16, 2018, 09:14:42 am
An additional wing of production chambers on Base Luna, utilizing advanced and powerful nanomachine chambers and large multipurpose machine arms to quickly and easily create anything that might be needed, from pieces of equipment to parts of ships.
Goal: To get more EP and some VP for when we finally get armor lol
AAA 2
Our first AAA attempt was good, but failed in some aspects. We'll try again, and make sure to get the ammo capacity and cost right this time.
Lesser Mutons, Once More
Try em again!
We tried Lesser Mutons the first time, right? Or was it the other proposal?
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 16, 2018, 09:20:07 am
Quote from: Revision
Extended AAA:
The previous generation of AAA missiles lack accuracy, ammo Capacity, range, and destructive potency in their usage. We have realized that the ammo Capacity and potency are the things that need to be altered
The new revised AAA missiles now comes in pods of four missile arrays with a new anti-armor blast to them, if Xcom thinks they can field either missiles or of aerial interceptor jets with armor of either terrestrial or alien kind, they will be in a horrible surprise of realization when they notice that our AAA missiles can penetrate armor quite handily and horribly destroying their ships, with plasma glue all over their wings and cockpits.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 16, 2018, 09:25:01 am
Utilising our high skill in automation (evidenced with our fighters, AAA and scout drones) these are space-capable drones approximately 2m3 and equipped with large ECM arrays, intended to make the drone appear much larger and more threatening on X-Com scanners. The drone is also fitted with a self-destruct mechanism, designed to make the vessel completely worthless to X-Com if somehow recovered. These drones should be buildable en-mass, and allow us to flood X-Com with false positives and provide our actual missions with defence in numbers. When deployed, the drone will follow a pre-plotted course across areas of Earth, intended to mimic an actual Alien operation.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 16, 2018, 10:14:08 am
AAA v2: The aim of this revision is simple: to increase the ammo capacity of our missile turrets, without significantly increasing bulk or cost. To achieve this, we have made the missiles more compact, by combining elements where possible. Most notably, using experience from Elder's Scorn (not replicating it entirely, but building on the experience), we have modified the Elerium power source to double as the warhead- this does make it less effective as a power source, but it is unlikely that a missile will require more than a few minutes of flight time at the very most. The full AI core has been pared down, removing unnecessary capabilities, and miniaturising the rest. The gravity drive is no longer capable of completely arbitrary movement- should it for some reason need to make a 180° turn, it will need to actually turn, rather than simply accelerate in the opposite direction- which cuts down on the required size considerably.
Ideally, we exchange a minor drop in performance for a substantially increased ammo capacity.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 16, 2018, 10:44:46 am
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :
[1] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk
I've gone for Nuke's because theirs more heavily indicates that we want more ammo, whereas Shadowclaws reads as if we're trying to improve their power.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 16, 2018, 10:54:07 am
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :
[2] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk, NUKE9.13
Post by: TopHat on February 16, 2018, 12:26:01 pm
Regarding the revision, I would much rather focus on reducing the cost of our missiles rather than increasing the magazine size - we're short of EP as it is and cheaper launchers are far more flexible. I am however wary of reducing their effectiveness too much, especially as X-Com will doubtless develop countermeasures quickly. Something like this might be doable, though the savings won't nearly be as considerable as we'd get from making the missiles less effective.
Quote from: AAA Deployment overhaul.
Our new missiles are technological marvels but too resource intensive to deploy in large numbers given that we are only really equipped to support plasma-armed craft. By expanding local manufacturing, overhauling our supply chain, and making numerous other small efficency savings, we should be able to reduce their deployment cost by a small, though still significant, amount.
Alternatively, we could finally get round to giving our infantry weapons with a long enough range that they can fight back on the ground. I consider this more important at the moment - two effectively guaranteed air kills per launcher should be enough for the next couple of turns.
Quote from: plasma rifle
Our plasma pistol is an effective sidearm but hindered at long ranges. Fortunately the improved strength of our sectoids enables the use of heavier weaponry. This model has been extended into a full-blown rifle, making it both more accurate and more powerful. As a result its effectiveness at longer ranges should be increased significantly. Slots have been included above and below the barrel for any additions such as sights or grenade launchers we may later develop.
On another note, here's my attempt at a submission for the challenge, though it got a bit long and off topic.
Spoiler: Challenge submission (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :
[2] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk, NUKE9.13
[1]Plasma Rifle (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693275#msg7693275): TopHat
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 16, 2018, 01:58:29 pm
Regarding the revision, I would much rather focus on reducing the cost of our missiles rather than increasing the magazine size - we're short of EP as it is and cheaper launchers are far more flexible. I am however wary of reducing their effectiveness too much, especially as X-Com will doubtless develop countermeasures quickly. Something like this might be doable, though the savings won't nearly be as considerable as we'd get from making the missiles less effective.So, there are several reasons I prefer expanded magazines to reduced cost:
-Reducing the cost won't do anything for us this turn, as we have already deployed. But thanks to schrodinger's revisions, increased magazine capacity can.
-I'd rather increase our available EP than constantly try to cram everything into a 2EP budget.
-Whilst it is true that cheaper missiles would be more flexible, they would also take up more turret slots. Halving the cost and doubling ammo results in the same amount of missiles, but the former results in reduced plasma weaponry.
-I think reducing the cost would be harder than reducing the size.
Quote
Alternatively, we could finally get round to giving our infantry weapons with a long enough range that they can fight back on the ground. I consider this more important at the moment - two effectively guaranteed air kills per launcher should be enough for the next couple of turns.Actually, you're probably right that we should do something for the ground. I had this idea that we could shoot down Skyrangers if we brought enough missiles, but I'm not sure whether that's plausible. I mean, so far, there hasn't been any mention of a Skyranger ever being in the slightest danger, even when we completely controlled the airspace. It may just be that the game is set up such that the aliens have to win both fights whilst XCOM need only win one.
And a plasma rifle shouldn't cost any EP (since presumably XCOM's standard rifles don't either (not sure about their railguns)), and we will want them for future heavy units. Yeah, alright.
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :
[1] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk
[2]Plasma Rifle (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693275#msg7693275): TopHat, NUKE9.13
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 16, 2018, 02:10:02 pm
Quote
It may just be that the game is set up such that the aliens have to win both fights whilst XCOM need only win one.
If you roll well on the spot rolls, you sometimes get to evade the ground battle.
Post by: Failbird105 on February 16, 2018, 02:12:52 pm
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :Yep, I'm all for making a quality gun, surprised we put this off so long.
[1] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk
[3]Plasma Rifle (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693275#msg7693275): TopHat, NUKE9.13, Failbird105
Post by: Puppyguard on February 16, 2018, 07:25:50 pm
Quote from: Votes
[] Extended AAA (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693184#msg7693184) :
[1] AAA v2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693195#msg7693195) : Kashyyk
[4]Plasma Rifle (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7693275#msg7693275): TopHat, NUKE9.13, Failbird105, Puppyguard.
Post by: TopHat on February 19, 2018, 10:39:06 am
Spoiler: Primative Weapon Data Document 12 - piratejoe (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Analysis of Native Air-to-Air Ordnance - TopHat (click to show/hide)
On another note:
r.e. AAA cost vs magazine capacity:
- Increasing Point reserves and decreasing costs are by no means mutually exclusive; indeed the one complements the other.
- The importance of flexibility vs turret slots will depend on our mission planning approach. If we continue to run a single large mission a turn, magazine size is better for the reasons you outlined. If we run more, smaller missions (which I think is our best course of action) then reduced costs will be more useful due to the ability to split the launchers among multiple missions.
- I hadn't thought about the relative difficulty of the two options; that may well be the case. I doubt the effect will be that major, though, given the significant overlap between the two goals.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 19, 2018, 04:49:07 pm
Quote
Our plasma pistol is an effective sidearm but hindered at long ranges. Fortunately the improved strength of our sectoids enables the use of heavier weaponry. This model has been extended into a full-blown rifle, making it both more accurate and more powerful. As a result its effectiveness at longer ranges should be increased significantly. Slots have been included above and below the barrel for any additions such as sights or grenade launchers we may later develop.Hard : 4 + 3 -1 = 6 Above Average
The plasma rifle is an effective and powerful weapon, building on the earlier plasma pistol. Beam intensity and coherence have been significantly increased, giving the weapon far greater effective range and greater stopping power. It retains the relatively high fire rate from the plasma pistol, and an enlarged elerium power cell gives it plenty of ammunition. In addition, slots are provided for any potential future modification. Currently, that is limited to a simple scope.
Quote
Craft: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Small Scout, 1 Medium Fighter ((6 Unit Storage))
Units: 1 ( Free) Infiltrated Skin Crawlers, 1 (Free) Sectoid, 2 Skin Crawlers, 1 Sectoid, 1 UP Scout Drone
Equipment: 1 AAA Missile on Medium Fighter, 1 AAA Missile on Medium Scout
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: “Rescue Contact’s Relative”
With a thunderous roar, another elerium mortar shell rips through the refinery. Fire and smoke hide the carnage of the fighting, shrouding the battlefield in a suffocating haze. A few seconds later, another shell impacts in the distance, tearing down more of the refinery. In the distance, gunfire erupts, firing at some mysterious targets moving through the mist, before falling silent again. A few seconds later, bolts of plasma fly in the other direction, followed by hastily silenced screams.
Whatever the kidnappers attempted to accomplish, it's clear that they were not prepared for this. From the very start of the mission, when the Skin Crawlers infiltrated the facility (carrying the ransom), they've been outwitted at every step. In seconds, the team holding the hostage was slaughtered by the Skin Crawler claws. Before they could react to that, 2 UFO's dropped down from the skies, one of them immediately starting to pound the facility into ruins. When the rest of the aliens arrived, all they had to do was mop up a scattered, panicking force.
But unfortunately, things can never be that neat. A (hastily destroyed) UAV shows that XCOM knows where you are, and with the entire UFO fleet concentrated, a concentrated response is to be expected.
Contact Mission : Success
Reward : 1 EP
XCOM's fighters are clearly something new. Far larger than the Raven, this new Talon aircraft is a menacing abomination of defiled technology. It looks like a large armored dart, retaining narrow wings despite the fact that the ship clearly has a salvaged grav wave generator. It's signature is all wrong, the arrays arranged to only allow max power in a forward, and being only narrowly capable of hovering in all other directions. They also have salvaged an elerium powercore to keep it in the air, and attached as many missiles as could fit.
XCOM's interception force, consisting 2 of these new Jets (Talons) and 2 Skyrangers separate as they approach the battlefield. The Skyrangers drop down towards the burning refinery, ready to deploy forces. The Talons curve upwards, giving chase to the lone Medium Fighter. It is outnumbered, and outmatched. But it's mechanical is incapable of conceiving such a notion, and it has a new tricks up it's sleeve.
As the Talons close their distance, the Fighter ejects 2 spheres from it's hull. Though called a missile, the AAA is in many ways more similar to the Fighter that launched them, than to the primitive things that XCOM launches in response. Propelled by a simple grav drive, the twin spheres speed towards their target, each homing in upon a Talon fighter. Both attempt to dodge, but neither succeeds.
A powerful explosion engulfs both Talons, fueled by the Elerium in the missiles core. A shock wave of plasma slams into the vessels, tearing away missiles and a gun pods. As the plasma clears, both planes shows great holes torn into their stolen alloy armoring, revealing shattered ceramic beneath the slagged alloy. Not the shattered wrecks expected when the missiles was build, but the enemy did not escape unhurt. Their reactions are slower, their maneuvers less precise ; all indicative of damage sustained. But although they have been stripped of most of their weaponry, the crafts still fly.
The Medium fighter hasn't come of well either. Twelve missiles smashed into it's Defensive Plasma Wave, sending fragments smashing into the UFO. Many accomplished little more than scouring the hull, but a particularly large fragments managed to tear into a plasma cannon, depriving the UFO of most of it's remaining weaponry. Even so, it fights on valiantly, but outnumbered and outgunned as it is all it does is delaying the inevitable.
On the ground, a completely different desperate battle develops as XCOM's forces are steadily whittled down by the advancing alien forces. Every time they stop running; attempt to stop and hold a defensible position, a mortar shells slams down on their position. The remnants of their skyrangers lie scattered through the factory, plucked from the sky by Elerium missiles.
Our forces advance on them, and would have killed them easily, were it not for the return of their 2 Talon's. Leaving hastily, our Small and Medium Scout shoot off into space, taken fire from the enemies railguns. However, with their systems damaged earlier, our forces manage to create sufficient distance before they can get in any lethal shots.
Loot : Exalt Captive Token
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 8
Challenges :
Month end : Gain 1 free VP; UP or EP point
Notes : Not happy with this update. Ask questions if you don't understand.
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 19, 2018, 05:05:36 pm
Post by: Failbird105 on February 19, 2018, 05:15:57 pm
As for our monthly point, I say we pretty much have to spend it on EP now that we have the missiles and a good gun.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 19, 2018, 05:25:36 pm
Decoy Drones
Utilising our high skill in automation (evidenced with our fighters, AAA and scout drones) these are space-capable drones approximately 2m3 and equipped with large ECM arrays, intended to make the drone appear much larger and more threatening on X-Com scanners. The drone is also fitted with a self-destruct mechanism, designed to make the vessel completely worthless to X-Com if somehow recovered. These drones should be buildable en-mass, and allow us to flood X-Com with false positives and provide our actual missions with defence in numbers. When deployed, the drone will follow a pre-plotted course across areas of Earth, intended to mimic an actual Alien operation.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 19, 2018, 05:30:59 pm
I mean, question 1: what does an EXALT Captive Token do for us?It's a research token, like the human dna ones.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 19, 2018, 05:38:07 pm
Ethereals understand, that mind is above matter. And unlike primitive optical zoom systems relying on system of lenses, this one focuses wielder mental power to let him see not only far, but also to see through obstacles.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 19, 2018, 05:38:44 pm
Okay... but what does it help us research? Psionics?I mean, question 1: what does an EXALT Captive Token do for us?It's a research token, like the human dna ones.
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 19, 2018, 05:39:48 pm
+1 on decoys.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 19, 2018, 05:44:03 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 19, 2018, 05:45:29 pm
Ehm, what about strapping cheap missile racks on decoys( so line skyranger gets !Fun!...at that point it's no longer a decoy, is it? The whole point is to make them as cheap and disposable as possible. Adding weaponry will drive up the cost.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 19, 2018, 05:47:57 pm
How have we failed to generate any panic at all so far (except that 1)? We need to suck less.
+1 on decoys.
Try more wanton death and destruction.
Okay... but what does it help us research? Psionics?I mean, question 1: what does an EXALT Captive Token do for us?It's a research token, like the human dna ones.
So far, not much. EXALT hasn't really got any tech you can reverse engineer.
But you mentioning psionics reminds me of something I forgot. Turns out the niece you rescued is a latent psionic of decent strength.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 19, 2018, 05:54:42 pm
Anywaaay, yes, decoys are good. Maybe we can finally have another mission that XCOM doesn't intercept.
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (2) BBBence1111, NUKE9.13
Post by: Failbird105 on February 19, 2018, 05:57:04 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on February 19, 2018, 05:59:22 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (4) BBBence1111, NUKE9.13, Failbird, Kashyyk
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 04:26:37 am
As for our plan this turn- assuming we roll well enough on the decoys, I'm guessing they would cost 0.5VP (if they cost 1VP, they would obviously be useless). In that case, we could do a thing where we launch 4 real (small scout) missions, and 4 decoy missions, with all 8 masquerading as Medium Scouts. Obviously XCOM will realise that something is up, but what can they do?
I suggest we avoid Europe, and send two missions to each other continent- one real, one fake. I think we have enough UP/DNA right now, so it would be a good time to do some recruiting. We can afford to send one unit of Skincrawlers on each real mission (8-3=5UP), each equipped with Plasma Rifles (spending our month end point on EP), and two with backup Sectoids (2-1=1UP)
Thoughts?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 04:40:00 am
Post by: Failbird105 on February 20, 2018, 04:45:28 am
Post by: Kashyyk on February 20, 2018, 05:14:15 am
How would people feel about either another shot at Mutons, or some sort of Terror mission as a revision?
Post by: piratejoe on February 20, 2018, 06:16:24 am
Post by: Kashyyk on February 20, 2018, 07:44:12 am
Currently we're sometimes one revision behind, so if we get given one revision before the mission phase, and then apply all subsequent revisions to future missions only, we'll be back on an even keel.
This way we'll effectively be revising then designing before each mission, whereas xcom will be designing then revising.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 07:49:32 am
Ethereals: Design -> Launch Missions -> Revise -> Battle
XCOM: Design -> Revise -> Respond to Missions -> Battle
XCOM can't respond to our missions before they are launched, hence there needs to be one phase before we launch missions and two before they respond.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 20, 2018, 08:07:52 am
If we get a one-off revision at some point (say at the same time as the standard revision), we'll then have had the same net total of Design/Revision actions before launching missions as XCom has had before responding. We then don't need to bother with retconning anything, nor altering our revision proposals to ensure we don't get bitten by it.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 20, 2018, 10:12:05 am
Actually, there are things we can spend the captive on, now that I think about it. If Recruit Collaborators was not already nigh-perfect (it rolled a 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7652485;topicseen#msg7652485)), we could use EXALT's experience with running underground movements to improve it. When we design an outpost-establishing mission, EXALT knowledge could help us ensure they can remain undetected. Would these be valid uses of the captive, ebbor?
As for our plan this turn- assuming we roll well enough on the decoys, I'm guessing they would cost 0.5VP (if they cost 1VP, they would obviously be useless). In that case, we could do a thing where we launch 4 real (small scout) missions, and 4 decoy missions, with all 8 masquerading as Medium Scouts. Obviously XCOM will realise that something is up, but what can they do?
I suggest we avoid Europe, and send two missions to each other continent- one real, one fake. I think we have enough UP/DNA right now, so it would be a good time to do some recruiting. We can afford to send one unit of Skincrawlers on each real mission (8-3=5UP), each equipped with Plasma Rifles (spending our month end point on EP), and two with backup Sectoids (2-1=1UP)
Thoughts?
no lone small scout missions plox, just one loss of small scout and they have this flying rapetrain with 15 missiles . We had enough fuck ups with unsupported small scouts.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 11:20:29 am
Still, you may have a point that losing too many missions could be bad. We could remove the Plasma Rifles from one of the missions, and give them all Elder's Scorn. That way, no intact ships fall into enemy hands- and the downside of the slightest damage being enough to end them isn't so bad, since a single scout would probably go down no matter what.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 12:03:30 pm
Post by: TopHat on February 20, 2018, 12:19:19 pm
Regarding the Talon: It almost certainly costs 2 VP and at present two of our missiles (1 EP) could probably destroy one or at least prevent it from posing a significant threat. They'll probably develop an anti-missile-missile pod or something as quickly as possible, but it's too expensive to send after single small scouts.
Regarding the decoy drones: They're a good idea but my one worry is that they may have already developed a way of getting past that function of the ECM, or be able to do so with little difficulty - in which case it will probably be effective for a single turn at best (though that one turn might be worth it). Something providing a permanent benefit such as improved armour technology (first for craft and later infantry), lesser mutons (I think they'll still be too difficult to fix in a revision) or a new mission (e.g. the one shortly to be edited in below) might be better.
EXALT Captive: I recall the EXALT operatives we encountered in Japan were immune to the effects of our mind merge. Looking into how that was achieved (a revision?) could be a good use for it. That or psionic training for humans, given our plans to expand the infiltration and Tamsim's niece being a potential asset.
Regarding this turn's mission plan: If we go for decoys the one outlined by NUKE (with Elder's Scorn) sounds good. Otherwise I have a half-formed idea to chuck on the table.
Spoiler: Assault Mission (click to show/hide)
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 12:19:31 pm
The Talon is actually quite bad. It has 18 missiles, 2 railguns, and the only reason that 2/3 of your ships escaped without loot losses is a mechanical fluke of the system (specifically one of the rules intended to ensure that you can't just monofocus air to win everything).Well first, the rule system seems very much in flux. Because only now we are hearing of this system that focusing solely on monoair means that the Aliens are going to be punished, and it really seems like this was a last-ditch change as we never heard of this feedback until now. There should at least be some heads up before we hear of rule changes so that we can prepare for them.
Also a ship with 18 missiles feels a little bit on the absurd to me, even for advanced aircraft that Xcom can deploy. Being a extensive Xenonaut and avionics nerd myself, and when we compare a normal post-information era jet fighter such as the F-22 Raptor which can hold 6 missiles, and commonly two for previous cold war fighters. That amount of reserves missile must come at agility penalty, especially due to its increased armor compared to the previous crafts. Which I feel it doesn’t, which is trying to compensate with the “it utilizes Alien tech” tokens and so it got to be extremely effective in the efficacy department. I mean 18 missile hardpoints would mean that the aircraft has really extended wings and just have the appearance of a bulky and obtuse shape in its design, case in point. (https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-59995967a3786d75241010fa3328737a-c) I just guess they got a 8 on their design and used three tokens
Conclusively I have a better idea than decoy drones. Things like decoy drones attack the fundamentals of the game, and like the Elder’s Scorn their going to be some sort of penalty in their deployment, that I can’t fathom actually going for it, because they attack a fundamental of the game, which means that it’s going to have sort of penalty because it isn’t a straight upgrade. Xcom also has two bases, one in Aegean Sea and one elsewhere. Why don’t we have two bases? We should probably develop some underwater base or UFO vehicle construction base out in the Asteroid belts and get more points. Mainly in the vehicle area
I mean in all reality, it just seems Xcom always has a advantage over us and it seems in most combat engagements that they have a decisive lead over us, why isn’t Exalt making any attacks against Xcom and just us, I understand we have the technology they desire but also exalt at least in base game hated Xcom for trying to defeat the aliens or something, so they did technology stealing, sublime propaganda, and even credit stealing?, and just because we have access to better starting technology and get
to direct our deployment of units, it really seems it doesn’t compensate for this. Just my thoughts.
Edit: Also the creation of a new base which will provide us with new points, can’t be countered and helps with the long-term. The decoy drones can be countered. But indeed the bases are created with a difficulty penalty in mind with this, but we should still go for this
Post by: TopHat on February 20, 2018, 12:27:58 pm
EDIT - We also have no idea how many bases X-Com have (they could easily have just the one) or what their interactions with EXALT have been like.
EDIT 2 - Expanding our current base may be a better option in the short term given the large initial investment of setting up new ones.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 12:37:10 pm
@Ebbor: Quick question - under contact mission success it says we gain 1 EP as a reward. Is this in addition to the Exalt token listed under loot at the end of the mission (giving us 1 EP, 1 EXALT, and 1 Month End token total for this turn)?
In addition.
Quote
Well first, the rule system seems very much in flux. Because only now we are hearing of this system that focusing solely on monoair means that the Aliens are going to be punished, and it really seems like this was a last-ditch change as we never heard of this feedback until now. There should at least be some heads up before we hear of rule changes so that we can prepare for them.
The lack of reading comprehension here is spectacular. I have no idea how you went from "a known flaw in the rules prevented XCOM from wiping your attack" to "GM malicously changes rule to punish you for focusing on the air".
In fairness I do remember Ebbor saying at one point that neither ground nor air could be ignored, using as an example the UFO which was shot down and later repaired due to a lack of ground response. And the effects of this system have swung both ways now.
It's part of the same mechanic.
But really, I found the fluff of "your UFO's got shot down, then repaired because the enemy ground forces are all dead" to be too silly, so I fluffed it up differently.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 01:03:04 pm
Anyways here’s a report of both side’s successes
Report on Combat Success on Our Side
Spoiler: All Combats Report (click to show/hide)
Okay after a fine statistics check apparently it seems very much contested between each other, fine I’ll give props to the GM for making a really 50/50 battle here, it really seems like no side has the advantage here.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 01:11:43 pm
Regarding the decoy drones: They're a good idea but my one worry is that they may have already developed a way of getting past that function of the ECM, or be able to do so with little difficulty - in which case it will probably be effective for a single turn at best (though that one turn might be worth it). Something providing a permanent benefit such as improved armour technology (first for craft and later infantry), lesser mutons (I think they'll still be too difficult to fix in a revision) or a new mission (e.g. the one shortly to be edited in below) might be better.Hmm. Thinking about it more, you might be right. And, like, this mission went alright, albeit not perfectly, so perhaps we don't need decoys that badly.
Although, XCOM only showed up after we landed. Had they shown up sooner, our landers may have been shot down before we could even reach the ground battle. So I think we do still need to focus on aerial superiority, or at least survivability. Armour might be the way to go.
E: Shadow, your analysis doesn't mention that our mission on T4 succeeded in its goals (infiltrating Australia), so we both got what we wanted that turn. So I guess we're actually ahead?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 01:14:39 pm
Quote
Also a ship with 18 missiles feels a little bit on the absurd to me, even for advanced aircraft that Xcom can deploy.
Perhaps, but that issue draws back to the Raven, which I gave 12. So, the issue is present from day 1, meaning I won't retcon.
Quote
T1
Mission 2: UFO Destroyed; Xcom (Presumably) Gets Tokens
That UFO got blown up on re-entry. Nobody getting anything from that.
XCOM needs to capture your stuff at least partially intact to get tokens.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 01:17:48 pm
...ohQuoteT1
Mission 2: UFO Destroyed; Xcom (Presumably) Gets Tokens
That UFO got blown up on re-entry. Nobody getting anything from that.
XCOM needs to capture your stuff at least partially intact to get tokens.
Well apparently we're doing really well, then.
Edit: Shadow, you also didn't mention our second mission on T6, where a small scout got captured intact. Likely the source of most of the Talon's technology.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 01:22:22 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 01:26:00 pm
I feel though this is a great time to start on another base even with the intended difficulty of creating one, for the factors that if it provides points that we can utilize for the next rounds and provide a long-term benefit. Having three small scouts with a medium ufo escort, with an abundance of VPs seems like a idea that we should go towards. Also necessary for sending in things like terror ships, and landing ships that have the resources to create bases in countries? Basically more VP for larger ships
Also the Plasma Rifle has a modularity point, maybe a revision for a underbarrel
Post by: Failbird105 on February 20, 2018, 01:31:46 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 01:32:21 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 01:37:19 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 03:06:29 pm
Asteroid Belt Base: Dug in to a particularly large asteroid orbiting Sol, this base serves as the home for a fleet of mining drones, who scour the asteroid belt for useful minerals, bringing them back to base to be processed. The gathered materials are used in the construction of vehicles and equipment- this being the base's primary function. Facilities exist to support a small staff of engineers and overseers, but the majority of the base is automated and uninhabitable, in order to reduce the cost and complexity of construction.
Doing this would increase the amount of craft we could send on a mission- if we can't beat 'em in quality, we can beat 'em in quantity. And actually, since decent armour/shields would probably increase the cost of a vessel, I think we might want to do this first.
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (3) BBBence1111, Failbird, Kashyyk
Asteroid Belt Base: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: Puppyguard on February 20, 2018, 03:13:10 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (3) BBBence1111, Failbird, KashyykI can see an asteroid base being more effective than just decoy drones.
Asteroid Belt Base: (2) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard
Post by: piratejoe on February 20, 2018, 03:22:09 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (3) BBBence1111, Failbird, Kashyyk
Asteroid Belt Base: (3) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe73
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 03:26:46 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (3) BBBence1111, Failbird, Kashyyk
Asteroid Belt Base: (4) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe73, SC
Post by: Failbird105 on February 20, 2018, 03:36:18 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (2) BBBence1111, KashyykI absolutely see this being a multi-turn effort to get up to the desired quality, possibly even to start, but I can definitely see it being useful.
Asteroid Belt Base: (5) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe73, SC, Failbird105
Post by: Kashyyk on February 20, 2018, 04:09:20 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 04:13:06 pm
10ebbor10: would decoy drones suffer the same restrictions that Elder's Scorn did?
I'm not going to give you an un-reverse engineerible, cheap and perfect mimic drone.
2 out of 3 is the best you can hope for, 1 out of 3 is also likely.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 20, 2018, 04:16:02 pm
10ebbor10: would decoy drones suffer the same restrictions that Elder's Scorn did?
I'm not going to give you an un-reverse engineerible, cheap and perfect mimic drone.
2 out of 3 is the best you can hope for, 1 out of 3 is also likely.
You know the only important adjective there is it being perfect and effective at its job, unable to be reverse engineered is a thing we can suck up, and expense cost as well
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 20, 2018, 04:17:34 pm
Yeah, that can work.
Post by: Failbird105 on February 20, 2018, 04:21:57 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on February 20, 2018, 04:22:12 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 20, 2018, 04:34:40 pm
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 20, 2018, 05:42:31 pm
Quote from: Vox
Decoy Drones: (1) Kashyyk
Asteroid Belt Base: (5) NUKE9.13, Puppyguard, Piratejoe73, SC, Failbird105, BBBence1111
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on February 20, 2018, 06:55:02 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on February 21, 2018, 12:56:17 pm
Mission: Identify Target
Some targets, such as Psionic Signatures and XCom bases, require sombre accrual effort to find. This mainly involves frequent flybys of an area, as well as repeated landings to take closer looks at suspicious locations. This mission works well with infiltrators (who can get much closer to targets without assisting suspicion) as well as psionics (who can use their Gift to detect hidden humans).
Mission: Incite Terror
Gratuitous violence against civilian and national military targets are guaranteed to cause serious concern amongst backers of the XCom project. Be it random stranding of ground targets by alien vessels, or alien units roaming around and shouting anything that moves, we will demonstrate XCom's incompetence to the entire world.
Muton
After our previous attempt at creating Light Mutons, we should have the experience to do them properly. We don't want to just try again after all. We also use a DNA token to patch Earth incompatible sections of a Muton's DNA. The end result is a seven foot, 300lb humanoid, capable of lifting their own body weight in equipment, with redundent organs and a hardened skeleton to resist trauma. Finally, they undergo an intense combat regime to ensure they are competent in all aspects of warfare, whilst their skill in non-combat situations may be lacking.
Plasma Carbines
Intended as a direct upgrade to our pistols, these are basically our rifles, cut down just enough to be free whilst still better than pistols.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 21, 2018, 03:00:16 pm
Whilst our experience with Lesser Mutons will bring full-sized Mutons within reach, I think they'd still be Hard. Although, the addition of a DNA token might help.
Carbines are a revision, and one that is unlikely to succeed, I think. As in, we'd get them, but they'd still cost EP.
What I'm thinking about for our mission is two Medium Fighters, a Medium Scout, and a (free) Small Scout for good measure. This requires 7VP, we currently have 5- it would only be an option if we get at least 1VP from the belt base. I figure in light of their new fighter, splitting our forces becomes an even worse idea, and that since 1 MF held off two Talons for a while, 2 MFs might be similarly capable of at the very least keeping them at bay whilst we land- although by the sound of things, victory is unlikely (I'm guessing XCOM got a 7 and spent multiple tokens, whereas the MF is the result of a 5).
As for the mission type and destination... I think RC, targeting... Brazil? The panic might make RC slightly more effective, and it would help us track down EXALT (as mentioned above)
Post by: BBBence1111 on February 21, 2018, 05:45:39 pm
Post by: piratejoe on February 21, 2018, 06:21:54 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 21, 2018, 10:15:44 pm
Nightmare Worms
These 3 foot long worm like creatures come in swarms of twelve or more individuals, they move faster then a snake but can throw their body to make horrifying leaps and climb up most surfaces. They have brutal jaw appendages made for burrowing through layers of defensive armor and flesh to implant larval forms that then consume the host from the inside. Worse still, they are capable of projecting a portion of the collective mind into the brains of their victims, a part composed solely of fear. Those affected become panicked and may even be frozen completely in utter terror. Worse still, the larva contain a small quantity of nanites, used up in the process, which allow the first batch to grow rapidly, bursting forth from the head of their host after consuming the brain in a matter of minutes.
The collective are one of the greatest failures, as they came so very close to success. Originally a peaceful race of sentient worms who formed neural nets through a latent, natural telepathy. A rare talent, we sought to enhance them and bring them closer to us so that their complex culture could add to our own. They were unprepared for the majesty of the true gift and were overwhelmed by the Great Fear we must contend with. They went mad and used the new found powers to send that mad revelation to others of their kind, a great thought plague which destroyed rational thought and made their world barren to our works. We have learned from the mistakes of the past, and so take action slowly, to prevent clutching too fast and too hard at our goal to see it destroyed in our grasp.
The modifications to the worms make them excellent at gauging the abilities of our subjects and while they multiply rapidly at first they will die off over time so present no long term threat to the biosphere. They are not controlled by us, but instinctively attack any sentient mental energy not shielded by our efforts, once let out of stasis.
We of course use the exalt token, since he is the first test subject...
Basically combine mind worms, hyper worms and cyrsalids and you get this happy camper.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 22, 2018, 12:29:35 am
Is fear inducing ability somewhat long ranged ?
Post by: ~Neri on February 22, 2018, 01:10:40 am
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 22, 2018, 01:30:14 am
Post by: ~Neri on February 22, 2018, 01:46:01 am
And we can always just make a tailored disease for em. We know their DNA.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 22, 2018, 04:05:47 am
Why limit at all? Instead we can Force Xcom to purge em or the problem Will get worse.It wouldn't be in keeping with the spirit of XCOM to develop a 'hands off' method of terrorising the Earth like that. We can do mind worms, but VoidSlayer is right to include a built-in killswitch.
And we can always just make a tailored disease for em. We know their DNA.
Likewise, we can do stuff like those... whatchamacallit, gas-drop-pod-things from newcom. But we can't have them release a disease that will spread uncontrollably.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 22, 2018, 05:06:20 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 22, 2018, 05:14:19 am
Sort of like this but all green and olive chitin instead of black
Spoiler: Image Depiction (click to show/hide)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 22, 2018, 05:35:03 am
Ebbor, what would be supposed difficulty of terror worms and would it be woooo balance if they are designed to spread once seeded.
If, "with spread once seeded", you mean, automatically generates additional missions for XCOM to deal with, then it would push into Impossible/Very Impossible.
Post by: Failbird105 on February 22, 2018, 08:40:55 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 22, 2018, 09:04:25 am
These chrys-lites can still be possible, but not to the continuous degree without need of our assistance should still be possible. Send in a terror ship with some chryssalid, and start a terror mission for Xcom where they have to both save civilian lives while under the fire of alien and the zombie menace, also even hardened combat operatives would fall under pressure mentally when they realize their shoot innocents, their life are very much in jeopardy, and all that nonsense
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 22, 2018, 03:14:53 pm
Quote
Establish Outpost: We find that constantly travelling back and forth from our base to Earth is detrimental to our efforts. The craft required are expensive, the travel time is not negligible, and our final approach offers XCOM a chance to detect & intercept our forces. Therefore, we seek to establish outposts on Earth from whence small-scale operations may be launched and intel gathered. Our primary missions will require troops and materiel from our main base and may take place outside the outpost's sphere of influence, and will therefore continue to make use of regretably detectable craft transporting them to Earth.
Our forces shall land in the target nation, some distance from the eventual location of the base. The equipment and materials necessary to construct the base will be unloaded (preferably disguised or obfuscated such that XCOM could not easily guess as to their purpose), any local assistance coordinated, and the landing craft secluded, prior to overland travel to the final destination. These measures are to ensure that any intervening forces will not be appraised of where the outpost is located exactly, lest they later return to destroy it.
Once any interference has been dealt with and the site reached, engineers will set to work. Outposts should be tailored to their environment, with a focus on stealth (it should not be possible for XCOM to discover it without dedicating resources to the matter- sending a UAV to fly over the country should not be sufficient). They will be equipped with rudimentary facilities, and be guarded by basic anti-air weaponry and small garrisons (it should take XCOM more than a single Skyranger dropping off a squad to destroy the outpost and capture any equipment or resources contained within).
This mission will benefit greatly from infiltration in the target country, as our collaborators may help us identify a suitable location ahead of time, and provide us with local construction equipment and materials such that we do not have to bring everything ourselves. It may ((for balance reasons, if outposts are especially powerful)) take more than a single trip to complete an outpost.
Successfully established outposts should serve to strengthen our control of the region, provide a trickle of resources/research, and provide assistance to missions occuring elsewhere on the continent.
Post by: TopHat on February 22, 2018, 07:25:52 pm
Outposts - both Earth-based and asteroid belt - will probably require a good amount of effort to get to a useful state, with other dependencies like transport craft (which we could probably revise from our medium scout). Regarding Nuke's proposal specifically, I personally think it would take a lot of effort to get all of the functions requested (research, intel, mission assistance) both designing any major add-ons (e.g. ground-to-air batteries), and then repeated missions to build it up. I imagine a system a bit like the current infiltration one, with a single 'expand outpost' mission that would increase outpost level in a country. That way the outpost would start out basic and gradually gain more utility as we put more resources into it.
EDIT - Regarding this turn's mission, I personally think of the Talon as an incentive to split up - at a probable 2 VP (though possibly with tokens invested) it's not cost effective to send against a lone small scout. That lone scout would, with the DPW, have decent chances against the Raven (they've probably sidelined improving it in favour of the Talon) and, with two units and a set of rifles, probably win against a single Skyranger of troops on the ground - and as evidenced by Australia, we might not even need to win the ground combat for a Recruit mission to succeed. In any case, Elder's Scorn should reduce the impact of any we lose.
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 02:32:18 am
Honestly we could just one up their rifles and sight helmets with a truly superior plasma rifle and sectoid eye upgrades.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 23, 2018, 03:37:20 am
Quote
ebbor, may I ask if this mission type falls into the 'hilariously unbalanced and thus Impossible' category?
It was my intention to have each base build as a dedicated design action. Because, you know, they're fairly powerful things, those bases.
So, I'm not entirely sure about allowing you an action that builds bases in another way.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 03:43:07 am
But I suppose the distinction is a bit vague.
Although, this does raise the question- if we use a design to create a base on earth, do we have magical invisible construction ships (ie game abstractions) that build it, or what?
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 03:45:08 am
Also the thing where if a council nation leaves Xcom, at least in NewCom long war, the aliens can than build a base much easier there because the council doesn’t have the support of the international agency
Edit: To Nuke question, maybe have landing ships/transport barges and a mission for Xcom to counteract? ???
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 23, 2018, 03:57:07 am
Quote
Although, this does raise the question- if we use a design to create a base on earth, do we have magical invisible construction ships (ie game abstractions) that build it, or what?
Yeah, the base gets build by the same taxi service that handles your Skin Crawlers.
Quote
Ah, I wasn't thinking that these'd be fully-fledged bases. Just minor outposts.
That may work, depending on what exactly you want the bases to do.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 23, 2018, 04:14:33 am
Quote
Asteroid Belt Base: Dug in to a particularly large asteroid orbiting Sol, this base serves as the home for a fleet of mining drones, who scour the asteroid belt for useful minerals, bringing them back to base to be processed. The gathered materials are used in the construction of vehicles and equipment- this being the base's primary function. Facilities exist to support a small staff of engineers and overseers, but the majority of the base is automated and uninhabitable, in order to reduce the cost and complexity of construction.Very Hard : 2 + 4 - 2 = 4 ( Below Average)
The Asteroid belt base is a fully automated facility dug partially into one of the many mineral rich asteroid orbiting Sol. Well, more accurately, it's a set of seperate facilities spread across the asteroid, in order to maximize production. Mining drones spread out from each of these central refineries to extract the rare elements (and tonnes of more mundane elements) from which alien alloys can be produced.
A downsized from this production focused approach is that the base is hard to defend. There are no fixed defenses in place, and crew accommodations are limited to a dozen sectoids technicians that normally operate the base.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Invasion
Turn 8
Month end : Gain 1 free VP; UP or EP point
AABBCCDD
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 04:35:17 am
Anyways
Quote from: Actually Not that Spread Out
Mission 1
Crafts: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Medium Fighter (5 VP)
Units: 1 (Free) Infiltrated Skin Crawlers, 2 (1 Free Sectoid), 1 UP Scout Drone (2 UP)
Equipment: 1 Sectoid (Plasma Rifles), Medium Fighter (AAA Missiles) (2 EP)
Destination: Brazil
Objective: Recruit Collaborators
Mission 2:
Craft: 1 (Free) Small Scout, 1 Light Fighter (1 VP)
Unit: 1 Skin Crawlers, 1 Scout Drone (3 UP)
Equipment: Skin Crawlers (Plasma Rifles), Light Fighter (AAA Missile) (2 EP)
Destination: Russia
Objective: Recruit Collaborators
Mission 3:
Craft: 1 Small Scout (1 VP)
Unit: 1 Sectoid
Equipment: Sectoids (Plasma Pistols)
Destination: Australia
Objective: Harvest
Tokens Expended: Month Token + EP Token (on Plasma Rifles)
The idea here is to get our infiltration game on, and I thought Russia would be a interesting place to try and start infiltration with it being so significant to world affairs and such. I was actually thinking of giving mission 3 a Scout Drone, but I think mission 2 is more important and that’s why it has a escort with an AAA Missile and a Plasma Rifle
Edit: @10ebbor10, do we know which would be a more effective scouting/knowledge gathering unit? The Sectoids with mental mind merge battlefield awareness or the scout drones?
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 04:43:27 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 04:50:09 am
The scout drones haven’t been given much love or attention as of recently, what if we give them a toxic gas grenade launchers, but also has neurotoxin knockout gas? The gas would of course fill an area with a dense cloud of oxygen-depriving stun gas, that makes specifically humans go unconscious. The gas would of course piece light clothing and whatnot, so only a NBC Armor that they would have to create would make them have some protection against the knockout gas. It would actually be effective as a tool for harvesting people and defeating Xcom operatives
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 05:00:59 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 05:05:34 am
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 05:12:37 am
Just saying!
Anyway I kind of want to put elder scorn on the ships for some of those missions but it looks like it will still be too costly.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 05:16:23 am
Also elder scorn is trash tier m8, that thing requires more design and/or revisions to actually be useful, which we don’t have. Better to have more equipment on things that help us win, than negate losses on defeat. At least that’s my thinking
Post by: ~Neri on February 23, 2018, 05:20:07 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 23, 2018, 05:22:41 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 05:26:17 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 05:29:44 am
Actually isn’t that a potent strategy? Have three light fighters and three AAA missiles as escort for the three landing UFOs, and we use the revisions to make the AAA missile stronger?
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 05:35:44 am
Africa
---> Egypt Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
---> South Africa
---> Nigeria Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
Asia
--->Australia
--->China Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
--->India Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
--->Japan
Europe
--->France Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
--->Germany
--->Russia
--->United Kingdom
North America
--->Canada Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
--->Mexico
--->United States
South America
--->Argentina Small scout (Elder Scorn, Sectoid (plasma pistol)) 1VP 1UP 0.25 EP
--->Brazil
And something else I don't know.
Hit everything at once.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 05:38:55 am
As for my plan, the three light fighters + AAA missiles seems actually potent enough. I think the Medium UFO should lose its Plasma Rifle because the other one doing the infiltration mission small ufo doesn’t have enough ground power compared to the Medium ufo
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 05:44:47 am
United States
Medium Scout (1 Defensive Plasma Wave, ECM equipped flight computer) 3 VP
3 Sectoid Units (plasma pistol) 3UP
1 Sectoid Unit (plasma rifle, elerium grenade) 1UP 2 EP
Medium Fighter (1 Defensive Plasma Wave, ECM equipped flight computer) 2 VP
Small Scout (ECM equipped flight computer) (free)
2 Sectoid units (plasma Pistol) 2 UP
Light Fighter 1 AAA missile battery, 1 Defensive Plasma Wave, ECM equipped flight computer) 1 VP 1 EP
Infiltrated Skin Crawlers (free)
No tokens used.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 05:53:11 am
Better yet, you can expend both a VP Month token and a EP token on a Plasma Rifle, and get a second light fighter for mission 2 that also has an AAA Missile, for better aerial superiority
Consecutively giving mission 2 a Plasma Rifle is more valuable than an elerium Grenade on mission 1, more rifles all around. Better strategy because we have a 1 (free) Sectoid, you can replace 1 with a skin crawler, also replacing 1 unit of scout drone for each adds to the variety factor, better to just at least allow mission 1 to have a scout drone instead of 3 sectoids and a skin crawler
Post by: TopHat on February 23, 2018, 05:55:05 am
Spoiler: A different approach (click to show/hide)
Personally, I think one raven against a small scout isn't a done deal, given that our DPW can negate their missiles and they haven't had any major combat upgrades recently - if anything, they may give up weapon space for missile countermeasures. It's probably slightly in the raven's favour but some would get through.
Spoiler: A different approach, MKII (click to show/hide)
EDIT 2 - noticed that the month end bonus is a point, not a token, so modified accordingly. Also dropped the rifles from MK II mission 3 in favour of AAA missiles, which may be more useful.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 06:05:56 am
Post by: TopHat on February 23, 2018, 06:14:34 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 06:14:58 am
Quote from: Operation Versatility
Mission 1
Crafts: 1 Medium Scout, 1 Light Fighter (4 VP)
Units: 1 (Free) Skin Crawlers, 2 (1 Free Sectoid), 1 UP Scout Drone (2 UP)
Equipment: Light Fighter (AAA Missiles) (1 EP)
Destination: Mexico
Objective: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signals
Mission 2:
Craft: 1 (Free) Small Scout, 1 Light Fighter (2 VP)
Unit: (Half Cost) 1 Skin Crawlers, 1 Sectoid (2 UP)
Equipment: Sectoid (Plasma Rifles), Light Fighter (AAA Missile) (2 EP)
Destination: Russia
Objective: Recruit Collaborators
Mission 3:
Crafts: 1 Small Scout, 1 Light Fighter (2 VP)
Units: 1 Sectoid, 1 Scout Drones (2 UP)
Equipment: Sectoids (Plasma Pistols), Light Fighter (AAA Missiles) 1 EP
Destination: Australia
Objective: Harvest
Tokens Expended: Month Token on VP + EP Token (on Plasma Rifles)
The only weakness is that the medium ufo doesn’t get a plasma rifle, but it has a mortar on top of it to compensate. Maybe the first mission could do harvest if we need the DNA tokens really badly?
Edit: Change of making some Skin Crawlers not infiltrated, has allowed us to field 1 more Scout Drone
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 23, 2018, 06:18:13 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 06:19:43 am
Infiltration is not a guaranteed success.
Also, yeah, you do need to assign at least 1 non-infiltrated unit. (Otherwise my system would get quite broken).
Post by: TopHat on February 23, 2018, 06:19:58 am
EDIT - Shadowclaw got there first. Also quite interested to note that our missions have converged significantly under independant editing.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 06:24:23 am
Edit: Also apparently really wanting to infiltrate Russia or even USA instead of a less determinate country, because their global power I believe.
Also me valuing VP as more of a critical resource for the Month point, just so we can field larger terror ships and landing ships, and whatnot
Post by: TopHat on February 23, 2018, 06:41:11 am
Quote
Spend one EP token on plasma rifles. Use Month End point on EP.
Mission 1:
Craft: Medium Scout (3 VP),
Units: Sectoid x3 (3 UP), Scout Drone (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (medium scout) (1 EP)
Destination: India
Mission Type: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Mission 2:
Craft: Small Scout (free), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (free), Sectoid (free)
Equipment: Plasma Rifle (sectoid) (free), AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP)
Destination: Russia
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Mission 3:
Craft: Small Scout (1 VP), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (1 UP), Sectoid (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP), Plasma Rifle (Sectoid) (1 EP)
Destination: Mexico
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Here's what mine would look like with the Elder's Scorn replaced with a second set of rifles (we could instead give a second AAA missile to the medium scout). Each mission has a set of missiles (the light fighter is effectively useless once it's fired them, so I just put them on the Medium scout for mission 1), and enough ground power to take out a squad of X-Com soldiers. Given that X-Com only have 6/7 VP and Talons will cost 2, they should be hard pressed to respond effectively to all three. The mission locations I chose to investigate three more countries for psionic signals and gain infiltrators on another two continents, though shifting 2 and 3 to Brazil/Australia to further concentrate efforts there or US/Russia for possible greater effect are both good options.
EDIT - I'd rather have EP than VP given it's greater versatility currently (we have a lot of very good things requiring EP, and probably even more when we research armour). Larger landing craft I don't think will be that helpful in the short run; a filled medium scout (or lander revised from it) or two should be enough for early terror missions etc and achieving that well is more dependent on research and increasing UP/EP at the moment.
EDIT 2 - Mission 2 and 3 destinations changed to Russia and Mexico.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 06:55:36 am
Also I think infiltrated skin crawlers are actually really clutch even if they have scanners, not really useful when your getting bombarded by a mortar. Also they maybe make infiltration missions more successful as well? ???
I just think my Operation plan is best all-rounder, with a priority on aerial supremacy because we’re getting tired of getting rekt there :(
Edit: Also the strength of autonomous AI escort ships, is that we don’t need UPs to pilot them
Post by: Kashyyk on February 23, 2018, 08:50:31 am
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) :
I've collected the various plans people have suggested, for ease of reference.
I'm disposed towards any plan that uses our month end bonus as an EP, as that is the most powerful so far. We can spend it on Missiles in the air, and rifles on the ground, both of which are a serious bonus for us, more-so I feel, than another scout or some more sectoids are.
If Shadowclaw mods his plan so that mission one Recruits Collaborators and all the scouts are equipped with the AAA instead of the fighters (as our fighters want to be dogfighting more than the scouts do), I'll vote for it.
Finally, an interesting revision for us would be to make our plasma pistols concealable, so that infiltrators can be equipped with them.
Unrelated: 10ebbor10, could we design a "Build Outpost" mission that, if successful, gives a bonus to a "Create Base" design at that same location?
I apologise for the stream-of-consciousness this post turned into, but I'm not getting much sleep lately.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 09:07:33 am
Quote from: Missions[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) :
I've collected the various plans people have suggested, for ease of reference.
I'm disposed towards any plan that uses our month end bonus as an EP, as that is the most powerful so far. We can spend it on Missiles in the air, and rifles on the ground, both of which are a serious bonus for us, more-so I feel, than another scout or some more sectoids are.
If Shadowclaw mods his plan so that mission one Recruits Collaborators and all the scouts are equipped with the AAA instead of the fighters (as our fighters want to be dogfighting more than the scouts do), I'll vote for it.
Finally, an interesting revision for us would be to make our plasma pistols concealable, so that infiltrators can be equipped with them.
Unrelated: 10ebbor10, could we design a "Build Outpost" mission that, if successful, gives a bonus to a "Create Base" design at that same location?
I apologise for the stream-of-consciousness this post turned into, but I'm not getting much sleep lately.
Indeed, the Operation has been changed so that it means the Scout UFOs are equipped with AAA missiles, and mission 1 is recruit collab
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 09:16:18 am
Hmm.
I think you do actually want to give the AAA missiles to the Light Fighters, since they are toilets at dogfighting anyway, the Small Scouts don't want to be getting into combat, and with no plasma turret, the Small Scout would be defenseless against missiles.
Also Tophat, I would redirect the missions to Argentina and Nigeria to somewhere in North America and somewhere other than France in Europe, on the vague notion that EXALT might only have one psi-lab per continent and we have already found ones in SA and Africa.
Post by: TopHat on February 23, 2018, 09:26:10 am
I'd rather have the AAA on the fighters as that still leaves all craft capable of using the plasma wave to destroy incoming missiles - especially as the scouts would have to close within missile range to fire them. I don't think that one plasma cannon will make that much of a difference in a dogfight anyway.
Concealable plasma pistols are a nice idea but I feel there are more important things to spend our revisions on at the moment.
EDIT - Nuke beat me to it. If we improve the missiles this turn (e.g. magazine size, preemptive counter-countermeasures), I think our odds of survival against a Talon will be pretty good, or decent without them. Also note that with a maximum of 7 VP they can't afford to send Talons and a skyranger after all three of the missions. Good thinking on the psi-base possibility; I'll re-route to Russia and Mexico. (Mexico as we've only found signals in countries we've previously lost craft in, which might be important. Though we have only investigated those countries, so that might just be due to biased sampling.)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 09:32:12 am
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :I'll go with this one. It's worth a shot.
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[1] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) : NUKE9.13
For our revision, I'd like to try upgrading our missiles a little.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 09:46:40 am
Actually here’s why an extra VP will be valuable to tophat’s plan. If he removes the plasma rifle for the Russian infiltration for instance , and than upgrade the light fighter into a medium fighter, that could mean that the medium fighter could harm both talons and put pressure on skyrangers more effectively resulting in less ground troops that the aliens have to deal with, which means their is less need for a plasma pistol. I think that’s a significant enough edge on getting another VP this turn, we also would be even in point generation of +2/+2 for EP and VP which is balanced which is always nice. I think this might be an effective change and would have my vote for it
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 10:18:21 am
I'm pretty sure it is borderline impossible unless they have literally no escort.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 23, 2018, 10:24:34 am
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[2] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) : NUKE9.13, SC
Post by: Kashyyk on February 23, 2018, 11:55:27 am
Further, is it possible to avoid a ground fight with XCom by taking out their skyrangers before they land? I realsie this way circumvent mechanics slightly, but if they are stupid enough to send unescorted skyrangers to intercept we ought to be able to make the most of it.
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[3] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) : NUKE9.13, SC, Kashyyk
Post by: Failbird105 on February 23, 2018, 11:59:05 am
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[4] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) : NUKE9.13, SC, Kashyyk, Failbird105
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 23, 2018, 12:18:33 pm
10ebbor10, you mention in your battle report that XCom's skyrangers got destroyed. Did we cause infantry casualties from this? We can presumably compare the number of active hostiles to previous engagements to work out if there were less, assuming we couldn't just pick through the wreckage and count bodies.Couod have happened, but didn't.
Quote
Further, is it possible to avoid a ground fight with XCom by taking out their skyrangers before they land? I realsie this way circumvent mechanics slightly, but if they are stupid enough to send unescorted skyrangers to intercept we ought to be able to make the most of it.
It's highly unlikely, but it can happen. They've done it to you. You'd probably need a dedicated tactic for it to have descent odds of success.
Post by: Failbird105 on February 23, 2018, 12:30:15 pm
Post by: Puppyguard on February 23, 2018, 02:18:09 pm
Quote from: Missions
[] Actually not that spread out (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697807#msg7697807) :
[] Mars Attacks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697831#msg7697831) :
[] A Different Approach (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] A different Approach MkII (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697835#msg7697835) :
[] Operation Versatility (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697839#msg7697839) :
[5] Plan TopHat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697852#msg7697852) : NUKE9.13, SC, Kashyyk, Failbird105, Puppyguard.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 23, 2018, 03:40:01 pm
Ebbor, there was a question earlier that you didn't seem to see. Namely, would it be possible to have a "Create Outpost" mission that if successful gives a bonus to making a base in that area?
Sure.
Driving a country into panic also works for that.
Post by: Kashyyk on February 23, 2018, 05:05:16 pm
For the Cause
We have been slowly expanding our influence amongst the less idiotic members of humanity, however as of yet they have been merely keeping a low profile instead of acting in our best interests. As our influence grows, loyalist humans will aid in the procurement of resources for base construction, investigate rumours of XCom and Exalt bases, take up arms for our cause and eventually force the nation to cease backing XCom.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 23, 2018, 05:21:06 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on February 23, 2018, 05:38:19 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 24, 2018, 04:36:22 am
Make the most of the missions and tech we have right now.
Actually, what if we made a small fighter made entirely out of missiles? It could be a bundle of missiles all working together, then when enemies get nearby it turns into a swarm of dozens of missiles that hit every enemy nearby.
Post by: piratejoe on February 24, 2018, 10:40:10 am
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 24, 2018, 02:38:58 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 24, 2018, 03:22:32 pm
Although, by the sound of things you are thinking about long-term mind control of a large population. Yeah, that's never happening, for the same reason we can't create a deadly super-infectious disease/endlessly replicating aliens.
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 25, 2018, 02:13:51 am
This is honestly more meant to be a step to making not mass brainwashing, but providing the gift to all our supporters.
Better still would be footage of X-com gunning down civilians...
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 25, 2018, 06:10:33 pm
Revision this turn: Better AAA Missiles (Capacity, Armor-Penetrating Qualities, Better Accuracy/Range?)
Design: Actual Mutons; Revision: Aerial Terror Mission, it’s like a normal terror missions, except you bomb stuff!
Design: Hunter-Killer Drone, it would serve the roll as a normal attack drone (UCAV) in reality, except they could be the type of drones you put inside of a UFO, than its deployed to the air where it bombs both civilian infrastructure and such, and even actual Xcom troops!
Revision: Drone Construction Bays, an entire bay of the Moon Base is dedicated to drone creation (ie EP points)
Post by: piratejoe on February 25, 2018, 06:48:03 pm
Light bomber: The light bomber is a Medium fighter with its front armament removed and it is instead equipped with two heavy plasma turrets at the bottom of the craft to blast away at anything below it and the AI told to use said turrets for destroying things on the ground. There is also a normal turret on top of the craft made to just simply to help protect the craft against any enemy aircraft that decides to try and take it down. It is more armoured then the Medium fighter to better protect the craft from enemy fire with vital parts receiving extra armour.
And for our Air Terror mission...
Tactical Bombing: By bombing key military assets, we can reduce the will and ability of a nation to protect themselves against our power and strike out against Xcom and their antics. The goal of these missions is the destruction of ground, air, and naval forces in the targeted nation by sending out craft to blast any military instillation they come across, such as military air bases, naval ports, and armories. Along with this, we are to strike out against any mass of soldiers or military vessels out in the open sea. Of course, primitive aircraft that are not on the ground are to be watched but not engaged unless they approach and are attempting to attack. After all, things on the ground and in the sea are the targets of this mission, not things in the air.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 26, 2018, 03:08:20 pm
Quote
Spend one EP token on plasma rifles. Use Month End point on EP.
Mission 1:
Craft: Medium Scout (3 VP),
Units: Sectoid x3 (3 UP), Scout Drone (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (medium scout) (1 EP)
Destination: India
Mission Type: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Mission 2:
Craft: Small Scout (free), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (free), Sectoid (free)
Equipment: Plasma Rifle (sectoid) (free), AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP)
Destination: Russia
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Mission 3:
Craft: Small Scout (1 VP), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (1 UP), Sectoid (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP), Plasma Rifle (Sectoid) (1 EP)
Destination: Mexico
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Silently, all 5 UFO's lift away from the secrecy of the moon base, setting course for the planet below.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision
Turn 8
Month end : Gain 1 free VP; UP or EP point
AABBCCDD
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 26, 2018, 03:36:03 pm
Quote from: Based off of Nuke’s Revision
Breacher AAA Missiles : The aim of this revision is simple: to increase the ammo capacity of our missile turrets, without significantly increasing bulk or cost. To achieve this, we have made the missiles more compact, by combining elements where possible. Most notably, using experience from Elder's Scorn (not replicating it entirely, but building on the experience), we have modified the Elerium power source to double as the warhead- this does make it less effective as a power source, but it is unlikely that a missile will require more than a few minutes of flight time at the very most. The full AI core has been pared down, removing unnecessary capabilities, and miniaturising the rest. The gravity drive is no longer capable of completely arbitrary movement- should it for some reason need to make a 180° turn, it will need to actually turn, rather than simply accelerate in the opposite direction- which cuts down on the required size considerably.
Ideally, we exchange a minor drop in performance for a substantially increased ammo capacity.
There were notes of attempts to add either incendiary addition or just generally AP improvements to the missile drones to improve their effectiveness against Xcom’s armored Talon craft, but just bombarding them with quantity is the superior option. The focus is just trying to make the Missile battery here just larger and more extended to hold more drones, without suffering with quality penalties
Quote from: Revision Votes
Breacher AAA: (1) SC
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 26, 2018, 03:45:36 pm
More missiles:
AAA v2: The aim of this revision is simple: to increase the ammo capacity of our missile turrets, without significantly increasing bulk or cost. To achieve this, we have made the missiles more compact, by combining or downsizing elements where possible. Most notably, we replaced the Elerium in the core with 'pre-destabilized' Elerium, which generates less power but generates a larger explosion- we then downsized the core so that the explosive power remains roughly the same (the loss in power generation should not be an issue, as the core is still more than large enough to power the missile's gravity drive). The full AI core has been pared down, removing unnecessary capabilities, and miniaturising the rest. The gravity drive (in a manner that was totally not inspired by observation of XCOM's new fighter) is no longer capable of completely arbitrary movement- should it for some reason need to make a 180° turn, it will need to actually turn, rather than simply accelerate in the opposite direction- which cuts down on the required size considerably.
Ideally, we exchange a minor drop in performance for an increased ammo capacity, without increasing cost or space usage.
Or better missiles:
AAA v3: We ordinarily go to extreme lengths to keep Elerium cores stable. Experience from developing Elder's Scorn shows that it is remarkably hard to destabilize them, in fact. However, this need not be the case. In fact, we can make Elerium less stable, simply by bombarding it with the right sort of particles until it is loaded with energy just waiting to be released. This makes it so that one must be very careful when drawing power from the Elerium, as drawing too much could cause it to explode prematurely.
So we replaced the AAA's core with this pre-destabilized Elerium. It should generate less power but a bigger boom. The size of the core relative to the missile means it still generates more than enough power to keep the thing airborne and agile.
End result: a more powerful missile.
I vote for more, since we don't want to be using missiles more powerful than necessary against Skyrangers and Ravens. Though purely versus Talons, I think more power would be more effective.
Quote from: Revision Votes
Breacher AAA: (1) SC
AAA v2: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: piratejoe on February 26, 2018, 04:59:33 pm
Quote from: Revision Votes
Breacher AAA: (1) SCWe will block out the sky with our missiles! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE)
AAA v2: (2) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe
Post by: Kashyyk on February 26, 2018, 05:30:32 pm
Quote from: Revision Votes
Breacher AAA: (1) SC
AAA v2: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Kashyyk
Post by: VoidSlayer on February 27, 2018, 01:50:54 am
The current skin crawlers can effectively mimic humans and totally don't look like an octopus in trench coats. To improve on this stealth ability we give them the power to shift color, texture and even the shape of their tentacles, allowing a wider variety of shapes to choose from. The new creatures are also given a rundown of common things to find in human cities that they can mimic like postal boxes, cows and cacti. This allows skin walkers to look like people, animals or objects and then attack or scout out areas. They can even change rapidly between forms, confusing and tricking the simple minded humans.
Maybe not for the current one but a fine idea.
Post by: ~Neri on February 27, 2018, 03:26:58 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 27, 2018, 03:27:35 am
Post by: TopHat on February 27, 2018, 04:43:52 am
As such, I prefer AAAv3 to v2, though we might be better served prioritising armour piercing ability to raw power (not sure how to achieve that, though).
Quote from: Revision Votes
Breacher AAA: (1) SC
AAA v2: (3) NUKE9.13, Piratejoe, Kashyyk
AAA v3: (1) TopHat
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 27, 2018, 05:29:28 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 27, 2018, 06:48:19 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 27, 2018, 07:04:52 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 27, 2018, 07:25:46 am
Also it feels like their aircraft would look something like this...
Spoiler: Image Depiction of the Talon (click to show/hide)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 27, 2018, 08:41:23 am
Now, we could do something like revise our fighters to have room for more missiles... but I like the flexibility of being able to swap out any plasma turret for a missile turret.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on February 27, 2018, 10:05:10 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 27, 2018, 02:11:52 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on February 27, 2018, 02:12:25 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 27, 2018, 02:34:54 pm
Thus it may mean that the AAA missile battery can shoot it’s missile drones against things like their talons when a Medium UFO, with its rim-positioned plasma cannons, when it’s landed
Post by: NUKE9.13 on February 27, 2018, 02:38:22 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on February 27, 2018, 02:54:48 pm
Gives me the idea of making smart ((drone)) rocket launchers for the infantry such as the Mutons, or even a smart underbarrel GL for both anti-personnel usage and anti-vehicle, if Xcom was deploy to autonomous tanks and whatnot. Actually rocket launchers for the infantry could shoot down things like skyrangers and maybe even jet fighters, but those are probably too fast for even a very advanced rocket launcher.
Edit: Also indeed, the idea is based of the Blaster Launcher from NewCom
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 02, 2018, 05:07:54 pm
Quote
AAA v2: The aim of this revision is simple: to increase the ammo capacity of our missile turrets, without significantly increasing bulk or cost. To achieve this, we have made the missiles more compact, by combining or downsizing elements where possible. Most notably, we replaced the Elerium in the core with 'pre-destabilized' Elerium, which generates less power but generates a larger explosion- we then downsized the core so that the explosive power remains roughly the same (the loss in power generation should not be an issue, as the core is still more than large enough to power the missile's gravity drive). The full AI core has been pared down, removing unnecessary capabilities, and miniaturising the rest. The gravity drive (in a manner that was totally not inspired by observation of XCOM's new fighter) is no longer capable of completely arbitrary movement- should it for some reason need to make a 180° turn, it will need to actually turn, rather than simply accelerate in the opposite direction- which cuts down on the required size considerably.Normal (1,2) : Buggy Mess
Ideally, we exchange a minor drop in performance for an increased ammo capacity, without increasing cost or space usage.
The second iteration of our AAA missile had a bit of a troubled development. At first, things seemed to go well. Cutting down the gravity wave drive to a far simpler, primarily mono direction drive turned out to be a relatively straightforward affair. Similarly, the AI team easily managed to identify large sections of the AI core as superfluous, significantly reducing cost.
The first flight scale test immediately spun out of control, adding yet one more crater to the moon. As it turns out, a serious failure of communications had resulted in the removal of AI capabilities that were required to manage the more unusual flight characteristics of the new drive. A few hasty revisions added most of the missing capability back in, but the missile remains erratic and inaccurate.
Work on the warhead also had it's fair share of troubles. The destabilized warhead works, but it's way too volatile to be kept on the ship. Instead, our engineers have integrated a priming system into the launch tube, which spins up the destabilized reactor just prior to missile launch. Unfortunately, this newer system has a significantly longer cycle time, limiting fire rate.
Quote
Mission 1:
Craft: Medium Scout (3 VP),
Units: Sectoid x3 (3 UP), Scout Drone (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (medium scout) (1 EP)
Destination: India
Mission Type: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Drones float lazily through the night, scanning the village for any remaining life. A scream pierces through the darkness, then cuts of. A simple whistle follows, summoning the sectoids to gather this latest acquisition. Serene-in-worship acknowledges the signal, then let's his mind wander as he leaves the UFO. Leaving the familiar mindglow of his batchmates behind, he sets of into the village.
The minds out here in the village are different, alien, wrong. They were not harmonious, they did not drift or broadcast. They existed certainly, a bit brighter than most mindless life that inhabited the planet, but they were little compared to his own glow, and nothing compared to the Ethereals. There were some, the masters said, that showed potential. And so Serene-in-worship would look, but he didn't truly expect to find anything of note in this village.
He was only halfway across the village when a sudden spike of panic drove through the mindglow. Missiles sprang up to the sky, streaking towards a distant target. Projectiles whirred by overhead, and Serene-in-worship winced as explosions rippled through the UFO, mind glows suddenly dimming, subsuming into the whole as their host expired.
Grabbing his pistol tighter, Serene-in-worship, made his way back to the crippled ship. As he came closer, he could clearly see the damage. The mortar had been destroyed, the entire side of the vessel torn apart. The storage compartments were aflame, little would remain of the harvest they'd stored there.
But the nightmare was not yet over. Though the missiles had driven away the enemy's abomination, two of their lesser metal birds remained aflight, raining down railgun shots upon the battlefield. From the distance came a staccato of sharp cracks. The telltale sound of the enemy railgun, but far faster than expected. More mindglows disappeared, subsuming within the shrinking whole.
A few of the alien minds disappeared too, cut down by plasma shots or drones. But the enemy pushed was pushing faster and harder, and their weapons were more dangerous. Near panicking, now, Serene-in-worship reached out to the primitive mind, melding with it as if it were a fellow sectoid. It was distasteful, almost nauseating, but it allowed him to see the thoughts of his enemy. Reading their mind, he knew one was in the window. He broke the connection, and a single shot later, the human disappeared.
He managed to connect to another human, directing a fellow sectoid out of harm's way. He connected with a third, enjoying the ease with which he infiltrated the mind. This one was looking through the scope of his rifle, aiming at a fellow sectoid. With sudden shock, he realized he was looking at himself, but by then it was too late. A triggerpull later, and Serene-in-worship dissappeared into the whole.
Mission failed
Quote
Mission 2:
Craft: Small Scout (free), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (free), Sectoid (free)
Equipment: Plasma Rifle (sectoid) (free), AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP)
Destination: Russia
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Two UFO's descend from orbit, the heat of reentry blinding their sensors for but a moment as they drop down towards the Earth. They find a Talon waiting for them, armed to the teeth with missiles and railguns. The initial barrage strikes the small fighter, shattering's it's hull with railgun projectiles.
The small scout lasts but a moment longer, it's missile defenses soon overwhelmed by a deadly barrage.
Mission failed
Quote
Mission 3:
Craft: Small Scout (1 VP), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (1 UP), Sectoid (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA missile (light fighter) (1 EP), Plasma Rifle (Sectoid) (1 EP)
Destination: Mexico
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Thanks to the effort of our Skin Crawlers, we successfully managed to make contact with several members of the Mexican business community, many of whom focus on the sale and resale of alien artifacts. From those, we contacted only those we can trust, leaving us with a small but reliable group of contacts.
Unfortunately, XCOM detected our UFO's as they made their way back to orbit, and intercepted with a Talon fighter. The exchange was brief but brutal. Twin AAA missiles hits enveloped the enemy craft, while our fighter was torn to pieces by railgun hits. Shockingly, the enemy vessel survived the explosion, and even gave a brief chase to our UFO, but the heavy damage it sustained forced it to break off.
Mission Success : Mexico to light infiltration
Mission addendum : Through cheer, incredible luck, our mission happened to land right on top of a major psionic signal, which they promptly abducted. (1 Psionic Prisoner Token)
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 9
AABBCCDD
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 02, 2018, 08:11:06 pm
yes-yes we shouldn’t get into hindsight bias which I’m prone too, but it’s there. I have an idea of that Psionic Captive to improve our Sectoids psionically, through dissecting and experimenting with the captive. These sectoids wouldn’t be on Sectoid Commander tier, a Psion level with improved psionic abilities.
Anyways it seems that the Mutons would actually be a great idea as of this turn, and we have the previous gained failed knowledge of them...
Quote from: From Kashykk
Actual Muton
After our previous attempt at creating Light Mutons, we should have the experience to do them properly. We don't want to just try again after all. We also use a DNA token to patch Earth incompatible sections of a Muton's DNA. The end result is a seven foot, 300lb humanoid, capable of lifting their own body weight in equipment, with redundent organs and a hardened skeleton to resist trauma. Finally, they undergo an intense combat regime to ensure they are competent in all aspects of warfare, whilst their skill in non-combat situations may be lacking. If the only area that Mutons actual lack in, is that of its etiquette and having innate savagery, they are prone to intimidating their targets into submission, and their cruelty, might expend to them ripping off human’s limbs, civilian or not, out of pure intimidation. This is because Muton’s are like militarized gorillas, and that’s where their biosphere surviving DNA comes from...
2 DNA Tokens Expended
Quote from: Votes
Actual Mutons: (1) SC
1 DNA Expended
2 DNA Expended: (1) SC
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 03, 2018, 12:02:07 am
Post by: piratejoe on March 03, 2018, 12:27:09 am
This is the "DEAR GOD KILL THE TALONS NAOW" option. For now, however, I will abstain.
Post by: VoidSlayer on March 03, 2018, 03:09:01 am
A heavy, much larger ship designed for minimal crew. It is meant to hit high profile areas with overwhelming firepower and sustain significant damage. A full two meters of advanced alien alloys protect the craft, with additional internal walls the equivalent of a small scout hull. The craft has an armored dedicated missile bay which can launch two missiles at a time from the top and bottom of the craft and carry 16 total. A glowing green ring around the perimeter of the ship acts as a plasma turret, actually like four plasma turrets and a plasma wave generator. In addition the front of the craft has a heavy plasma cannon, a devastating weapon that fires a much more concentrated and deadly plasma burst at almost four times the speed of sound.
The ship only has room for two combat units, but can operate independently thanks to an onboard AI that assists with combat and flight. Four engines equal to the medium scout move this craft with speed and maneuverability unthinkable for such a large object.
Specs:
2 meter thick advanced alien alloy armor
Internal armored walls for every item
At least equal to medium scout in maneuverability
Ring Plasma Turret - Equal to four plasma turrets and a dedicate plasma wave. Can fire in any direction or multiple directions at the same time.
Front Plasma Cannon - Powerful and faster firing plasma weapon
Missile bay with 16 missiles, can fire two at a time, one out of the top and one out of the bottom
2 crew
AI navigator assistant
Target VP 6
Design: Psionic Cannon
Not so much a traditional cannon but an amplifier that locks on to sentient mental energies at extreme ranges and floods them with sensory overload. Used by a choir of sectoids, this can target a single or a few individuals in an air born vehicle. This makes them unable to fly the craft, allowing easy destruction, if they do not crash themselves. Sectoids need to be on the craft, so obviously they can not be used on fighters.
Post by: VoidSlayer on March 03, 2018, 03:29:08 am
Post by: TopHat on March 03, 2018, 08:37:00 am
In my opinion air survivability is the biggest problem at the moment, so armour improvements would be a good bet. Alternatively, a combat unit like the (lesser) Muton could shore up the ground further.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 03, 2018, 09:06:05 am
Mission 1 failed due to defeat on the ground, thanks to Skyrangers providing aerial support, their (upgraded?) railguns, and our poor equipment. XCOM has gotten a partially intact Medium Scout out of the deal. That's not exactly great news. We can expect them to roll out some impressive new tech with that bounty. An escort would've helped here, since then we probably wouldn't've lost our mortar, but it was mainly a lack of ground strength that did us in.
Mission 2 failed due to bad luck, in that we were caught whilst entering the atmosphere. Stealth tech could still help us- not making missions impossible to detect, but delaying detection by one 'notch' (ie instead of getting caught during entry we get caught in flight, instead of getting caught in flight we get caught whilst landing, etc).
Mission 3 succeeded as hoped. Expect XCOM to upgrade their Talons in response.
Hmm. I think we want a ground design. Our aerial weakness can be compensated for by using less landers and more fighters.
Post by: Kashyyk on March 03, 2018, 03:12:30 pm
Or we could go for a plasma carbine revision. That should obsolete the plasma pistol and catch us up in the ground war for no additional points cost.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 03, 2018, 04:13:01 pm
Also our missiles being failure( hooray to roll of 1 )
might really want to get dem revision
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 03, 2018, 04:29:27 pm
Dont their infantry railguns smash holes through buildings? How mutons are going not to die from this ? And our plasma rifles are still at disadvantage due to getting long range sniped.
Also our missiles being failure( hooray to roll of 1 )
might really want to get dem revision
Alien alloys are more powerful than any form of human metal or man-made ceramics, and they can survive a ridiculous amount of force, including those from railguns. Make power armor out of this...
Plasma rifle at least in the lore, with a few blasts can destroy modern battletanks with ease, that’s why soldiers often aren’t in those tanks, realizing the loss of mobility isn’t really that advantageous gain of armor when they can easily be shot down. Plasma rifles have the necessary power, they just don’t have an ACOG scope so they lack a little bit of long range potential.
Post by: VoidSlayer on March 03, 2018, 11:54:52 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 04, 2018, 01:37:03 pm
Mutons are big, beefy warriors. Everything about them is designed for combat. Redundant organs, a high pain threshold, and their integrated combat armour gives them unparalleled endurance, whilst their strength and innate combat skills make them a deadly threat. Their weaknesses are a low intellect for non-combat matters, virtually no capacity for the gift whatsoever, and an inability to blend in- on infiltration missions, they should definitely stick with the lander.
(Recommend spending 2 DNA tokens to reduce difficulty)
Quote from: Votes
Muton:
-Spending 2 DNA tokens: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: Kashyyk on March 04, 2018, 04:34:53 pm
Quote from: Votes
Muton:[/quote]
-Spending 2 DNA tokens: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 04, 2018, 04:40:26 pm
Quote
(Recommend spending 2 DNA tokens to reduce difficulty)
Tokens have to be assigned to specific features. I may not have been entirely consistent with this, but I hope to ensure that it's consistent in the future.
Basically, a token ensures an automatic success on a specific subfeature. Removing it and it's difficult from the rest of the design.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 04, 2018, 05:20:36 pm
My thoughts.
Quote from: Votes
Muton:[/quote]
-Spending 2 DNA tokens: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, SC
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 05, 2018, 12:31:04 am
+Earth-capable biology
+Superhuman endurance
+Superhuman strength
+Innate tactical knowledge
-Mental weakness
ebbor: Can we spend a DNA token on the first thing there? That is, can we guarantee something that works (poorly) even if we roll a 2? (I figure if we can guarantee the first two- a working damage soaker-, we can revise the other features in afterwards)
Does adding weaknesses make designs easier at all? As in, is 'aiming' for mental weakness a good idea, or should I leave that out and let a poor roll add it back in?
Post by: TopHat on March 06, 2018, 12:15:20 pm
Quote from: Votes
Muton:
-Spending 2 DNA tokens: (4) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, SC, TopHat
I'll back the Muton and NUKE's proposed token use (Earth-capable biology; endurance). Having thought it over I agree that improving ground forces is more important this turn - with luck a final fix to the AAA should balance out any fighter improvements the humans make and we should be back to parity on both fronts.
There are a couple of things I noted re-reading the turn:
Quote from: mission1
The telltale sound of the enemy railgun, but far faster than expected(emphasis mine) - It would appear that their railgun rate of fire has indeed been upgraded. Which begs the question:
@Ebbor: Did the turn's air combats see any siginificant increase in enemy railgun fire rate?
If not then the improvement probably either costs extra EP and/or only affects ground weapons; in the latter case an air equivalent may well be their revision for this turn.
Also of note is that they deployed an estimated 8 VP worth of craft, up from 6 last turn. That's +1 from the month end and an unaccounted +1 - probably either an event, a hoarded token, or a design / new base.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 06, 2018, 03:24:51 pm
Quote
@Ebbor: Did the turn's air combats see any siginificant increase in enemy railgun fire rate?
Not that you noticed.
Quote
Can we spend a DNA token on the first thing there
Kinda. Bit of a weak choice, but you can.
Quote
Does adding weaknesses make designs easier at all? As in, is 'aiming' for mental weakness a good idea, or should I leave that out and let a poor roll add it back in?
It can help if the weakness makes sense.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 06, 2018, 04:25:17 pm
Post by: TopHat on March 06, 2018, 04:53:28 pm
Ah, well. If it works, I guess.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 06, 2018, 05:12:15 pm
Post by: piratejoe on March 06, 2018, 05:43:20 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on March 07, 2018, 05:12:45 am
Post by: ~Neri on March 07, 2018, 06:27:01 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 07, 2018, 09:10:06 am
But if folks want to gamble on us getting >2 (which might be sensible), I could also go with endurance and tactics.
I already mentioned redundant organs. As for advanced armour, I figure it'd be better to get the basic creature done first, and then later design/revise improvements to them. Like, we don't have the luxury of being able to gamble on a Hard design rolling well- we need to more or less guarantee we get something we can deploy without being embarrassed about it.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 18, 2018, 06:11:46 am
Quote
Muton: Taking what we learnt from the Lesser Muton debacle, and combining it with a choice selection of high-quality Earth DNA, we have managed to create Mutons capable of operating in Earth's biosphere. We could try to do something 'original', but why bother when we have something so suited to the task at hand already?Hard : 3 + 3 -1 = 5 (2 Tokens used) [Average]
Mutons are big, beefy warriors. Everything about them is designed for combat. Redundant organs, a high pain threshold, and their integrated combat armour gives them unparalleled endurance, whilst their strength and innate combat skills make them a deadly threat. Their weaknesses are a low intellect for non-combat matters, virtually no capacity for the gift whatsoever, and an inability to blend in- on infiltration missions, they should definitely stick with the lander.
(Recommend spending 2 DNA tokens to reduce difficulty)
Well over two meters tall, the Muton is a terrifying combat unit. Their genetically and surgically altered physiology features multiple redundant organs, a tremendous pain threshold and even integrated armor plating. They're capable of surviving injuries that on many other species would be lethal, and even keep on fighting until they're on the brink of death. Integration of Earth DNA has allowed us to extend this endurance outside of combat. Mutons are fully capable of surviving in most of Earther's biosphere without any support, even over prolonged periods of time. However, using that capability for Earth infiltration would be a mistake. Muton minds are imprinted with tactics and weapon knowledge, and are uniquely mono focused on combat. To them, the world is a series of nails and them the hammer.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 9
AABBCCDD
[/quote]
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 18, 2018, 06:28:41 am
Quote
Operation Advancement
Mission 1
Crafts: 1 Medium Scout (3 VP)
Units: 1 Muton, 1 Sectoid, 1 Drone (3 UP)
Equipment: Medium Scout (AAA Missiles), Muton (Free Plasma Rifle), (1 EP)
Destination: Brazil
Objective: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Mission 2:
Craft: 1 (Free) Small Scout, 1 Light Fighter (1 VP)
Unit: Skin Crawler (Free), 1 Muton (2 UP)
Equipment: Muton (Plasma Rifles), Light Fighter (AAA Missile) (2 EP)
Destination: Russia
Objective: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
Mission 3:
Crafts: 1 Small Scout, 1 Light Fighter (2 VP)
Units: 1 Skin Crawler (Half Off) (1 UP)
Equipment: Light Fighter (AAA Missiles) 1 EP
Destination: Nigeria
Objective: Recruit Collaborators + Investigate Signal
The missions that are only for harvest don’t have the Skim Crawlers but the muscles of the Mutons, the infiltration missions all have a Skin Crawlers which makes them very useful for infiltration.
Quote from: VoteBox
Operation-A: (1) SC
Post by: Failbird105 on March 18, 2018, 06:33:28 am
Post by: Kashyyk on March 18, 2018, 06:38:43 am
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 18, 2018, 06:41:57 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 18, 2018, 06:43:15 am
Medium scout( like we did last turn )
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on March 18, 2018, 06:50:58 am
Can we stop gifting xcom tech by sending loneYou don’t understand, they can send three Talons and two skyrangers it seems. The idea is we have three missions so that the Medium UFO doesn’t have to deal with the force that is of two, or even three, talons and we would get absolutely destroyed. We only lost the battle because of lack of plasma rifles or better units, in this case mutons. The medium ufo combined with its mortar and Muton support should be more than enough, me thinks. Also AAA missile support, which we are planning on revising again...
Medium scout( like we did last turn )
If Mutons and them with plasma rifles can’t save the day for us, I don’t know what will
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 18, 2018, 07:32:04 am
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 18, 2018, 07:42:59 am
I am pretty sure, that we lost, because our medium scout was pile of flaming debris. There is no point in winning ground harvest mission, if you have no means of getting back.Well, to be fair, if we completely win the ground battle and don't completely lose the air battle, we get to 'repair' our ships and escape anyway. See: two turns ago. Also, our scout wasn't entirely destroyed- the mortar got knocked out, but I think it could've been made spaceworthy if we won on the ground.
That being said, I don't think we should send another unescorted Medium Scout. Bearing in mind that XCOM has had the opportunity to upgrade their airforce with a host of alien tech this turn, I think sending along a Light Fighter makes a lot of sense. I'll have to reread last turn before suggesting a plan, since I can't remember all the details.
Post by: TopHat on March 18, 2018, 08:30:16 am
Spoiler: Plan B (click to show/hide)
Post by: NUKE9.13 on March 18, 2018, 08:53:58 am
Quote from: VoteBox
Operation-A: (1) SC
Plan B: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: sprinkled chariot on March 18, 2018, 09:50:59 am
Yeah, that sounds good.Quote from: VoteBoxOperation-A: (1) SC
Plan B: (2) NUKE9.13, SC
Post by: Kashyyk on March 18, 2018, 09:59:19 am
Quote from: VoteBox
Operation-A: (1) ShadowC
Plan B: (3) NUKE9.13, SprinkedC, Kashyyk
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 05, 2018, 03:51:13 pm
Quote
Mission 1:
Craft: Large Scout (3 VP), Medium Fighter (2 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (free), Sectoids (free), Mutons (2 UP), Mutons (2 UP)
Equipment: AAA Missile x 2 (Large Scout x1, Medium Fighter x1), Plasma Rifle (Mutons 1) (free)
Destination: Canada
Mission Type: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Mission 2:
Craft: Small Scout (free), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (1 UP), Sectoids (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA Missile (Light Fighter) (1 EP), Plasma Rifle (Sectoids) (1 EP)
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators
New minds swam through the mindspace. Silent, near invisible among the choir of his podmates, basking in the glory of the Ethereals, but present. Their thoughts were sharp, thin as a needle, painfull. No song was present among their minds, not even the confused babble of the humans below, or the hampered parroting of the Skin crawlers. Only a hunger, silent but waiting, for blood.
Basks-in-veneration closed his mind, and look at the nav panel. A few more hours, and then it would be over.
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Revision
Turn 9
AABBCCDD
Post by: Kashyyk on June 05, 2018, 04:07:37 pm
... what were our plans again?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 05, 2018, 04:10:49 pm
...yeah, I'm gonna have to re-read the thread in order to remember what the heck we were doing.
Excited to see this back, though.
E: Well, we could give our missiles some more love. That was our last revision, which more or less failed, so there's room for progress there.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 05, 2018, 04:45:56 pm
We could also try making them cheaper? Then wee can shove them on everything and not bother with our inaccurate plasma cannons.
Post by: piratejoe on June 05, 2018, 05:09:32 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 05, 2018, 05:34:14 pm
Make them tougher with redundant systems or combat drugs so it will take several shots to put them down.
Maybe upgrade their senses so they can see and aim much further.
Maybe make them susceptible to friendly mind merge from a distance so that sectoids can stay back and enhance them.
Why did we only send one plasma rifle with 2 mutons.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 05, 2018, 08:02:29 pm
And sure increased their senses so that they have aimbots build in or whatever, increased eyesight accuracy leads down to higher lethality for our Mutons
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 06, 2018, 02:45:18 pm
(AAA v2 again)
Quote from: Votebox
AAA v2.2: (1) NUKE9.13
Post by: sprinkled chariot on June 06, 2018, 04:21:19 pm
AAA v2.2: So, about that plan to make smaller missiles of roughly equal efficacy. That didn't work out so great last time, but we're certain to get a favourable result this time. Probably.
(AAA v2 again)Quote from: VoteboxAAA v2.2: (2
) NUKE9.13 , sprnkld chrt
Post by: piratejoe on June 06, 2018, 04:26:40 pm
Quote from: Votebox
AAA v2.2: (3) NUKE9.13 , sprnkld chrt, Piratejoe
Post by: Kashyyk on June 06, 2018, 04:35:47 pm
Quote from: Votebox
AAA v2.2: (4) NUKE9.13 , sprnkld chrt, Piratejoe, Kashyyk
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 07, 2018, 02:11:53 am
This is a standard muton "berserker" gland modified to be usable in front line mutons. While normally inactive when an individual is injured it pumps chemicals and nano bots into the bloodstream effecting small repairs to stem blood loss, restore some function and overcoming any sense of pain or disorientation. The result is a muton that can survive shots which would kill or incapacitate normal organics, even damage to the head and brain can be shrugged off to some degree. This doesn't actually heal, and they are likely to die much later, but they will be as efficient in combat for some time.
Just modify the standard muton to be much tougher so even shots that get through their armor will be unlikely to be immediately fatal.
Post by: TopHat on June 09, 2018, 07:10:40 am
Quote from: Votebox
AAA v2.2: (5) NUKE9.13 , sprnkld chrt, Piratejoe, Kashyyk, TopHat
And here's a more fluffy description because why not:
AAAv2.2: Although our previous attempt at miniaturisation failed, it did succeed in completing most of the legwork. By reconciling the new drive and reduced AI, and redesigning the priming system, we should relatively easily be able to meet our initial design goals.
The mutons should suffice for now; the earthlings will probably try to improve air survivability after last turn so missile improvements should be most useful.
I believe my thinking with the rifle distribution was that the second set would be of better use with the second mission. I suppose we'll see if that was a good call or not soon enough.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 13, 2018, 10:54:05 am
Quote
AAAv2.2: Although our previous attempt at miniaturisation failed, it did succeed in completing most of the legwork. By reconciling the new drive and reduced AI, and redesigning the priming system, we should relatively easily be able to meet our initial design goals.Easy : 3+4+1 (Unexpected Boon)
The first iterations of the AAA were primitive, flawed. They were failed experiments, especially compared to the new finished product. The latest iteration of the AAA has an AI core that has been redesigned from the ground up to support it's modified drive system. This not only allowed us to cut the cost and size of the projectile, but also to include a potent new feature. By modifying the reactor parameters, the AAA missile can detonate in a spectacular airburst. Ineffective against any armored vehicles or structures, but decently effective against unarmored civilian structures.
The priming system has also been completely redone. The bulky priming system in the missile tube has been replaced with a tiny modified fusion cell integrated in the missile itself, which overloads itself to power up the missile's main reactor/warhead.
In the end, cost of the missile has been maintained at 1 EP, but we managed to double the amount of missiles to 4. We also included a new airburst capability.
Quote
Mission 1:
Craft: Large Scout (3 VP), Medium Fighter (2 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (free), Sectoids (free), Mutons (2 UP), Mutons (2 UP)
Equipment: AAA Missile x 2 (Large Scout x1, Medium Fighter x1), Plasma Rifle (Mutons 1) (free)
Destination: Canada
Mission Type: Harvest + Investigate Signal
Explosions thunder through the sky, and debris rains down upon the small Canadian town. The Medium fighter plunges into an apartment complex, which crumbles and buries it under the debris. The large UFO spirals out of control, tearing the roofs of several houses before skidding into the local park. It's outer hull has been torn to shreds by missile launches, the core and navigation controls penetrated by several railgun shots.
XCOM's jet fighters do not fare much better. Though they manage to dodge the missiles on their initial approach, they could not escape their relentless pursuit. Both fighters crash on the outer Rim of the city, each hit by three AAA missiles. The two remaining missiles have taken out two of XCOM's Skyrangers, leaving the third alone in the sky. With whining turbines, it dropped it's team of on a nearby building, before disappearing again.
With a secure high ground, XCOM opened fire into the crashed UFO. Railgun shots darted through the scattered debris, only occasionally answered by plasma rifle fire. Sectoids and Skin crawlers, wounded by the crash, were killed before they had a chance to get into cover. The mutons, far faster on their feet, escaped mostly unharmed, but even they suffered some casualties.
Reorganizing quickly, the combat bred creatures soon started pushing forward, overwhelming the enemy with plasma rifle fire. Under the withering barrage, the XCOM soldiers were overwhelmed quickly, and killed before XCOM managed to bring forward the rest of their forces. Peculiarly , some of them were armoured in alloy, strong to resist a blaster bolt. Using build-in grapples, they managed to rapidly relocate out of our Mutons path. With pistols ineffective, and even our rifles significantly weakened, the remaining mutons were slowly whittled down. Even so, the managed to eradicate a significant chunk of XCOM's force.
Tactical insights : Current missile weaponry can destroy enemy jet fighters, but not before they have terminal damage upon our vessels. Their large missile loadouts can rapidly inflict significant damage to UFO's structure even despite the plasma shielding, and their railguns easily inflict lethal damage.
Significant casualties were taking in crash landing, current landing ships are relatively unprotected.
A small number of enemies forces have been noted to wear some sort of power armor suits. They sport alloy armor, what appears to be a grappling hook and potentially other systems. Our plasma pistols are mostly ineffective against, though the rifle still works.
Mission Failed
Quote
Mission 2:
Craft: Small Scout (free), Light Fighter (1 VP)
Units: Skin Crawlers (1 UP), Sectoids (1 UP)
Equipment: AAA Missile (Light Fighter) (1 EP), Plasma Rifle (Sectoids) (1 EP)
Destination: Australia
Mission Type: Recruit Collaborators
The mission is executed without hitch. There's no XCOM response, not even the slightest hint that they knew we where there.
Results are promising. We made contact with several promising targets, and managed to set up several more collaborator networks. For safety sake, we've isolated them from the existing network. If one of them is compromised, the others will remain untouched.
With groundwork laid, the infiltration can move to an active phase. Covert support for our operation in this area is now a possibility.
Mission Success: Infiltration level increased
Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PANIC METER (click to show/hide)
Design
Turn 10
AABBCCDD
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 13, 2018, 11:14:25 am
I'm hoping that XCOM didn't get much out of the failed mission due to casualties? Or something? Like, is there any difference between 'We wiped out 90% of their dudes' and 'We wiped out 10% of their dudes'? I know we've had reduced rewards due to heavy losses, so I assume it works both ways.
Anywhey, let's take the GM up on his not-so-subtle suggestion that we up-armour our craft. I'll write up a thing soon.
E:
Shaped Medium Armour: When we first came to this planet, we saw no need for armour, beyond that needed to survive atmospheric reentry. However, the Earthlings have proven remarkably stubborn, quickly deploying weapons capable of tearing through our thinly armoured craft. Enough is enough. Do they honestly believe they can compete with the full might of the Ethereal Empire? Let us demonstrate to them a token of our armouring abilities.
Available for all our ships, Shaped Medium Armour consists of thick-ish plates of Alloy, specifically treated for optimal damage resistance, moulded into forms that maximise efficacy. The swirls and spirals on the surface may look decorative, but they are in fact cleverly designed to distribute impact energy in ways Earthlings could not hope to understand, resulting in superior performance compared to a regular slab of Alloy.
E2: PS, ebbor, what exactly would covert support entail?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 13, 2018, 12:46:36 pm
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E2: PS, ebbor, what exactly would covert support entail?
Delaying XCOM's response, sabotaging radar, aiding fear generation, stuff like that.
Combat support is a tier up.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 13, 2018, 01:29:21 pm
Light Corvette
More similar in shape to our fighters, this is our first crewed combat craft to be converted for atmospheric use. With one forward facing plasma cannon and two turrets (one aside) and much heavier armour, it combines the firepower of a fighter with the crew space of a light scout (2 units) and the durability to survive a fight with both.
A dedicated combat transport should survive better than a ship with retrofitted armour, but is definitely a bigger project.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 13, 2018, 02:06:47 pm
...but you're also right that it would be more effective.
Hmm.
Nah, looking it up, the Medium Scout was Hard, and we rolled a 7. The Light Corvette would be equally difficult, I suspect, and whilst more durable, it'd be less effective as a transport. I think adding armour to it (and our other ships) would be a better use of our design. It's close, though.
Anyway, either way, I think we're going to want more VP, since I highly doubt armour will come free. Whilst this turn's revision would be too late to affect this turn's deployments, we would still want the extra VP next turn. I propose something like this for our revision:
Mining Drone Improvements: As the war grows more intense, the need for resources with which to wage it grows more pressing. Especially our fleet is in dire need of increased numbers. The production statistics from our Asteroid Belt Base just aren't cutting it anymore.
Fortunately, our initial efforts setting up the base were flawed. There is plenty of room for upgrades & optimisation in our mining drones. Taking notes from our AAA development, the new mining drones feature an optimised AI core, with unnecessary features removed, leaving only the essentials- but said essential features have received an upgrade. Their reactors have been upsized slightly to provide more power. This extra power is routed into bigger drills and gravity drives, allowing for more ore to be mined, and for said ore to be moved to the refinery faster. Dedicated 'prospector' drones have been outfitted with greatly improved sensors (at the cost of their mining equipment), and these are used to sniff out mineral deposits and mark them for regular mining drones to excavate.
All in all, a series of minor upgrades add up to a considerable increase in performance. The additional mineral bounty has been earmarked for ship construction- we expect to increase the Belt Base's VP output by at least 1.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 13, 2018, 02:22:42 pm
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 13, 2018, 04:51:11 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 13, 2018, 05:29:48 pm
Actually @10ebbor, there is no mention of the mortar during combat, was the Medium Scout so damaged that the device wasn’t effective? There wasn’t no mention of it, so a conclusion on it’s effect on the battle would be greatly appreciated.
Med Scout was entirely out of commission.
Post by: TopHat on June 13, 2018, 06:22:08 pm
I'd rather go with armour than an armoured craft; we will probably be able to revise it into armour for our ground troops later which, along with the ability to use it on all craft, earns it my support.
As for the revision, a plasma rifle manufacturary might also be useful given their new armour. Though extra VP may well prove more valuable; we'll work out what we're most short of during deployment I'm sure.
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 13, 2018, 11:47:06 pm
A larger ship then the large scout this ship has minimal crew of one squad but heavy armor, a single high powered missile launcher and ample ammunition to devastate a city. The launcher can shoot a dozen missiles per minute while tracking at extended range thanks to an upgraded detection array using psionic wave to find sentient targets at all altitudes.
It is designed as a heavy escort and for future air/ground terror missions.
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 14, 2018, 12:06:18 am
A new variant of the skin crawler, while the base form remains the same it is now covered in thousands of symbiotic, mind linked small versions of the skin crawler. These allow the creature to rapidly change color, texture, shape and even heat signatures to virtually anything from the size of a mailbox to the size of a small car. The symbiotic creatures also contain in a special sac a potent mix of mineral acids, enzymes and elerium powered nano bots which can melt through almost any material, even our alloys. When close by the Shifter launches several to attach to, then burst, over the target, melting whatever unfortunate they are attached to.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 14, 2018, 01:49:01 pm
Quote from: Wotebox
Shaped Medium Armour: (1) NUKE9.13
Light Corvette:
Heavy Bomber:
Shifter:
Post by: Kashyyk on June 14, 2018, 01:57:49 pm
Quote from: Wotebox
Shaped Medium Armour: (2) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk
Light Corvette:
Heavy Bomber:
Shifter:
Post by: TopHat on June 14, 2018, 04:08:21 pm
Quote from: Wotebox
Shaped Medium Armour: (3) NUKE9.13, Kashyyk, TopHat
Light Corvette:
Heavy Bomber:
Shifter:
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 16, 2018, 08:04:41 am
High Level Negotiation: Certain members of the ruling classes of Earth have come to understand that our victory is inevitable. They are ready to discuss a peaceful resolution to this 'conflict'. We can offer them trinket technology, cessation or limitation of our activities in their country, and positions of power in the new world order. In exchange, they will reduce or halt funding for the XCOM project, willingly provide us with the materials and knowledge that we seek, and promise to assist us when we enter the final stages of assimilating Earth.
We have used knowledge gained from our EXALT captives to create a framework by which the government may be compromised in our favour, with their citizens being none the wiser- EXALT knows a thing or two about keeping large organisations secret. This will make it consideably harder for XCOM to root out our allies, as they are hidden in amongst legitimate goverment employees, controlling things from the shadows. XCOM's usual 'guns blazing' approach won't work in such case, unless they want to make an enemy of the entire country.
Mechanically, the goal of this mission is to contact, negotiate with, and then ensure the safe and anonymous departure of our new allies. Should XCOM interfere, they should be either eliminated, or kept away from the negotiations long enough for them to conclude, and prevented from identifying our collaborators.
A revised version of RC, my hope is that if successful, we would either reduce XCOM's available resources or increase ours- something we could really use, considering XCOM is seriously starting to outclass us techwise. Use of the EXALT token would make our control harder to break, so XCOM couldn't just undo the work of four missions with a single strike.
@ebbor: would this be a valid use of the EXALT token?
Also, would tier 3 infiltration be enough to start converting a country?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 16, 2018, 10:57:36 am
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@ebbor: would this be a valid use of the EXALT token?
Yup.
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Also, would tier 3 infiltration be enough to start converting a country?
The Panic meter goes to 4, before there's an abandoning, and the infiltration meter is intended to be similar. Cutting support slightly may be something you might be able to do at 3?
Post by: Kashyyk on June 16, 2018, 12:44:12 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 16, 2018, 01:14:06 pm
Hmm. Do we even need a special mission to convert a country then, or do they automatically convert when we reach 4 infiltration?QuoteAlso, would tier 3 infiltration be enough to start converting a country?
The Panic meter goes to 4, before there's an abandoning, and the infiltration meter is intended to be similar. Cutting support slightly may be something you might be able to do at 3?
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 16, 2018, 01:44:43 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 16, 2018, 03:35:32 pm
Also remember we only got close to a victory because we took out two sky-rangers, on even numbers they would have floored us.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 16, 2018, 03:43:56 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 16, 2018, 03:48:06 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 16, 2018, 03:49:39 pm
Also remember we only got close to a victory because we took out two sky-rangers, on even numbers they would have floored us.Right, but many of our troops were killed or injured during the crash, and our mortar was disabled. If we armour our craft, we get more boots on the ground, and mortar support. I mean, yeah, it's still not a good sign for us that 1 squad was able to win, but had we not suffered aerial losses, that one squad would've been toast.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 16, 2018, 03:51:30 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 16, 2018, 04:03:06 pm
Post by: Kashyyk on June 16, 2018, 04:50:20 pm
Post by: VoidSlayer on June 16, 2018, 05:12:32 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 17, 2018, 12:49:57 am
Light Infantry Armour: Currently, our troops deploy virtually naked, resulting in extreme vulnerability. Even some very basic armour would increase their efficacy considerably, whilst not significantly increasing costs. To this end, we have elected to deploy Light Infantry Armour- thin plates of Alloy strapped over vital areas, with the first and foremost design goal being that the cost is insignificant, so that we may provide it to all our forces. The straps used are elastic, and the exact configuration of plates customisable, allowing all our forces to use it (except for infiltrated Skin Crawlers).
Mental Feedback: Building off of our Reversible Mind Merge technique, Mental Feedback involves a Gift-user sending disharmonious psionic energy through the an existing mind-merge link, to cause mental distress in the target. This automatically breaks the merge, causing only minor discomfort to the user, whilst the target is afflicted with distracting- indeed, terrifying- visions and voices, resulting in panicked/erratic behaviour.
Our psionic prisoner has been studied in order to tailor the feedback in such a manner as to cause the target to see everyone as an enemy, hopefully resulting in friendly fire.
@ebbor: Is providing our forces with Cheap armour plausible, or will even light armour cost some amount of EP?
Also, we are still listed as having 2 DNA tokens, but I'm pretty sure we spent them already.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 17, 2018, 04:14:38 am
Also for things we could revise, we could make the Long War Recon Drone into an armored air-to-surface assault drone, and it doesn’t have to be a cyberdisc; or you could go with the radar-cloaking Seekers for ambush and skirmishing tactics. Also that revision for Mind Fray would use up the Psionic Prisoner token I think?, I think that should go on a design, and you know what was really annoying to deal with, those goddamn Codices with teleportation and duplication; if we could replicate those aliens, they would be the most annoying thing for Xcom to deal with; and those things were psionic biomechanical units I believe, since they were effected by EMPs and Mind Control?
This lastly comes down that we need another facility to increase our production of vehicle points to unit points, a genetic-creation faculty on Mars?
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 17, 2018, 07:55:49 am
Upgrading our rifles with more attachments is something we should do at some point, although again, I think improved psionics or literally any armour would be better.
The Mental Feedback revision I posted would indeed use our psionic prisoner token. It's not like we can't get more. Unless you expect to be using it in a design in the near future, we might as well use it now, rather than waste it doing nothing.
Codices are definitely high-tier aliens, I'm not sure we can deploy them yet.
I don't think another base is a good idea. Entirely new bases are Very Hard- better to expand an existing base. I mean, our belt base got a four (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168643.msg7697800;topicseen#msg7697800), so there's room for improvement there. Increasing the VP production by 1 point is definitely within the scope of a revision. As for UP, we can gain that by launching Harvest missions.
Post by: Kashyyk on June 17, 2018, 08:56:18 am
Post by: TopHat on June 19, 2018, 04:31:26 am
For night missions - remember X-Com have already deployed new sensors which are probably designed to detect skin crawlers and most likely will work at night as well. On the other hand, our sectoids would be unhindered and night vision for our other forces should be fairly easy (several revisions rolled into a design?). Plus those sensors probably have an EP cost.
The problem with oyr psionics if I remember correctly is that they lack range; more powers won't help here. We may be able to revise a Sectoid with a greater capacity for the gift using our token though, which may help alleviate this.
Infantry armour would be nice if we can get it for free; we'd need more EP to make full use of it otherwise. Remember that our aircraft will lose against Talons without AAA missiles and out ground will lose to power armour with no rifles; both require EP.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 19, 2018, 04:38:07 am
And yeah, infantry armour would need to cost 0EP, which is why I asked ebbor whether that is plausible. If it isn't, then we'd be better off doing something else- a revision to the Asteroid Belt Base to increase its production would be my preference.
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 19, 2018, 04:51:59 am
Also that’s the point of like the Plasma Rifle Production Line; or maybe one for AAA Drones; to gain additional uses of them without spending points, or having a reduction like a 33% reduction would lead to getting three rifles/missile drones out of two points spent
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 19, 2018, 05:53:21 am
Post by: TopHat on June 24, 2018, 08:34:16 am
Spoiler: turn index (click to show/hide)
r.e. psionics - I think it was mentioned somewhere that our sectoids can't use the gift if they're picked off at range. So survivability or range shortening would help.
r.e. armour: thinking it over, whilst Cheap armour could probably be made to stop bullets I doubt it would help much against railguns. Integrated armour for Sectoids may be better than external armour; it'd likely use UP rather than EP and sectoids are the unit we're most likely to field it on anyway. This would come at the cost of versatility however.
Post by: NUKE9.13 on June 24, 2018, 09:15:51 am
Speaking of psionics, I wrote up an idea that might get around the range issue:
Psimine: We are continually beset by XCOM operatives, who we are forced to concede are incredibly talented soldiers, equipped by remarkably ingenious engineers. Our forces regularly find themselves outgunned by the Earthlings and their primitive but effective weapons. One area where our superiority is unmatched, however, is psionics. Yet we are under-utilising this advantage, using only relatively simple intelligence-gathering and ally-boosting abilities. It is high time we upgraded our arsenal.
What are a psion's weaknesses? Well, getting shot is a major one. So avoiding that would be great. Unfortunately, most psi-abilities require line of sight, meaning a risk of getting shot is inherent. Not so with the psimine, an ability capable of crippling foes without having to lay eyes on them.
A Gift-user imbues an object with psionic energy, then leaves it somewhere enemies are likely to stumble across it. When they do, the interference of their own psionic field destabilises the pent up energy, resulting in a burst of randomised psionic waves, which depending on strength (of both the psimine and the target's mental defences) will cause anything from a headache, through major confusion/panic, up to total psionic overload resulting in serious intracranial damage (in turn rendering the target unconscious, comatose, or even dead if they are especially weak).
A user may create a number of psimines at once, determined by their psionic potential (as each active mine creates a small drain on psionic energy). Any object may be turned into a psimine- rocks, corpses, doors, etc. Tying the psimine to an object this way makes it harder to detect (should XCOM ever develop psions of their own), and allows for makeshift 'psi-grenades'.
We have tested psimines on our psionic prisoner in order to maximise the damage they cause- using the unusually strong feedback they provide to tweak the creation method so that even a standard Sectoid is capable of creating psimines that can easily cripple an untrained human.