Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Adventure Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Zeebie on February 28, 2018, 10:40:29 am
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I'm a long-time fortress mode player just getting into adventurer mode. I'm having a little bit of trouble making sense of how things work in combat, if anyone can enlighten me:
- Where do the various striking options come from? What determines whether a given target is easy, normal, etc.? Are there things that can be done (eg, particular defense strategies) to set up better attacks?
- How much time do attacks take? Sometimes I feel like I can get in a couple blows before the opponent; sometimes I take a step and a dozen things happen.
- I don't understand wrestling at all. I'm a legendary wrestler (thanks, geese) but any given midnight creature seems able to toss me around without trouble. Wrestling attacks also seem to happen so fast that I don't have a chance to break a grip - I've been bit, shaken around multiple times, and bled to death all in between two of my attacks. How do I counter this?
- Do wounds just heal on their own (anything other than amputation, anyway)? Is medical care and healing available anywhere?
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> Where do the various striking options come from?
Random factor. Direction of your body relative to enemy (if you're flanking from the right, you'll attack right limbs easier). Opponent current move (if someone uses his right hand to attack, his right hand becomes a easier target). All of this is also true for you.
>How much time do attacks take?
Can't say for sure, but the answer is on the wiki. Kicks take more time, slow& heavy attacks take more time. Some weapons (whips) take more time intrinsicly. Attack is separated in three phases ; windup, attack, recovery. During windup and recovery, you're stuck on place and the limb you extended becomes an easier target
> Any given midnight creature seems able to toss me around without trouble
Size matter. Night trolls are much bigger than you are. You're trying to wrestle a giant, of course you'll be tossed around
>Do wounds just heal on their own
Cut nerves never heal, but flesh wounds do. Basically, if it doesn't heal when you fast travel it's permanent.
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> Any given midnight creature seems able to toss me around without trouble
Size matter. Night trolls are much bigger than you are. You're trying to wrestle a giant, of course you'll be tossed around
Ah, I didn't realize they were so big. Is there a way to see size of critters in-game?
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Sure, if you use PNP, you can use dwarf portrait and compare size directly. I was surprized too, when that Moon Horror exploded the head of my dwarven companion like a melon with a single kick. Then I saw its size and...yeah it makes sense !D
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- How much time do attacks take? Sometimes I feel like I can get in a couple blows before the opponent; sometimes I take a step and a dozen things happen.
Either you're crawling (moving while lying on the ground) or you're trying to shoot your enemy with a ranged weapon. Shooting a crossbow with dabbling skill takes just an insane amount of time; even at high levels of skill it's not worth it. Bows aren't much better. Stick to throwing.
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Although you specified your questions, I'm gonna rant a little.
Be mindful of the fact that certain enemies will be able to strike more often than you do. It's just how it is. For combat tips, this is usually what I go with
- Change your dodging preferences to stand ground and dodge manually when convenient (unless you're facing a big boi, then parry/dodge, don't stand ground)
- In the limb menu, there will be small cyan-ish exclamation marks to the right of the list (or likewise coloured arrows marking the fact that such an exclamation mark is somewhere lower on the list), these are opportunous strikes that you can make and are usually very easy and will surely connect. Be mindful of these, sometimes you can go for very vital parts and afford to throw a heavy strike here and there.
- I wouldn't wrestle anything other than human/dwarf/elf though, it's always very risky and rarely yields any potential payoff. The attacks just aren't very damaging and most beasts are stronger than you anyways
- Wounds heal on fast travel and sleep. Some of them never heal, nerve damage especially (unless that was changed in the newest build)
- Go for the feet and the hands.
- You can use your hands to catch incoming attacks through wrestling menu if you're skilled enough.
- As a Legendary Wrestler, go on a blinding rampage and pinch eyes of everyone in the hamlet/town. It's fun.
Generally speaking, always keep tabs on the size of your opponent, more often than not tissues scale with it, yesterday I fought a giantess whose skin was so thick it was mostly impenetrable, the only reason I won against her is I cleaved her so many times with my axe she fell and gave in to pain. Weird stuff.
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Always use Fast attack option (u) when selecting an attack. Speed matters more than damage. Also, use "," key to wait for 1 tick instead of "." that waits 10 ticks.
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I'm playing an unarmed character and disarms/limb breaks via wrestling are key.
I like grabbing a weapon away and then dodging back and flinging it at their chest. Also, good god I was unaware of the difference between , and .
I am new to adv mode.
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Always use Fast attack option (u) when selecting an attack. Speed matters more than damage. Also, use "," key to wait for 1 tick instead of "." that waits 10 ticks.
I would recommend using fast attacks to disable your opponent so they can't run away/fight back, and then using heavy attacks (v) for the finishing blows.
Also, I've found that sometimes it takes a lot of hits to actually finish an opponent, so a very effective option is actually jumping into them repeatedly. If you have disabled both their legs, they won't be able to dodge in time, making them fly into the air.
A quick way to potentially immediately kill an unsuspecting opponent is to sneak up behind them, bite them (v)ery hard in the neck, and then shake them around. This may sever their spinal cord, if you're lucky.
My general method when fighting gobbos or other pretty weak opponents:
- Quick attack their legs, hoping to sever their muscles so they can't run away.
- If they have a weapon (military, woodcutters), quick attack the arm that holds it so they drop it.
- Now being mostly defenseless, they can easily be hit in their remaining functional limbs and eyes, hoping to cause them to bleed out or fall unconscious from pain.
- Either hit them (v)ery hard in the head or jump into them using the method I have described to finally kill them.
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Tangent: I have an itch for unarmed combat. What race, including animal-person, would be best for this, do you think?
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Tangent: I have an itch for unarmed combat. What race, including animal-person, would be best for this, do you think?
If you like overkill, elephant man.
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Tangent: I have an itch for unarmed combat. What race, including animal-person, would be best for this, do you think?
If you like overkill, elephant man.
Elephant Man is easily the most OP animal-person, possibly followed by Giant Desert Tortoise-men, and Elephant Seal-men. I haven't experimented with too many animal races, but I'd imagine any well sized animal would get good base stat/survivability bonuses (Deers and other animals of comparable size, Bears, Tigers, etc). Dunno if anybody has done the SCIENCE on if animals with claws get a natural bonus to scratching, or if there is any comparable difference between the different variations some races get based on their limbs and grasps (snatching, snipping, goring, etc), but in general being bigger just makes you better in almost every way. The only thing you need to watch out for is if the base animal is incapable of things like say jumping. Many animals can swim innately, so you can even save on spending a skill point for that.
I had some fun with a Saltwater Crocodile-man whose only form of offense was biting people.
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Gonna make a GRIZZLY BEAR MAAAAAN and name him Fuzzlewumpus. Thank you all.
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Tangent: I have an itch for unarmed combat. What race, including animal-person, would be best for this, do you think?
If you like overkill, elephant man.
This or Rhino Man. Both can quite easily punch the heads off small/medium sized opponents.
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Tangent: I have an itch for unarmed combat. What race, including animal-person, would be best for this, do you think?
If you like overkill, elephant man.
This or Rhino Man. Both can quite easily punch the heads off small/medium sized opponents.
Ok that does sound pretty good.
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If I recall, using horns to gore uses the biting skill. I can't say I've ever played as a rhino man, but I have modded satyrs in my game to be playable, and they get to gore things. They also have the added benefit of having very resilient hooves, which makes a lot of weaker blows glance off.
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Animals with claws don't get a special bonus to scratching, but scratch attacks are always calculated as if the nail is the size of the finger it's attached to, which is why (for humanoids) scratching is much more effective in combat than it ought to be.
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Yeah my grizzle man would rip things up with his scratch attacks, but that was probably due to his size? He would routinely shred up muscle and arteries and sometimes organs on smaller humanoids.
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Yeah my grizzle man would rip things up with his scratch attacks, but that was probably due to his size? He would routinely shred up muscle and arteries and sometimes organs on smaller humanoids.
Well, I mean, he is a bear. :P
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Animals with claws don't get a special bonus to scratching, but scratch attacks are always calculated as if the nail is the size of the finger it's attached to, which is why (for humanoids) scratching is much more effective in combat than it ought to be.
That brings to mind... how long are an Elephant-Man's fingers? When I used one, I was capable of decapitating humanoids and chipping Bronze Colossi. Really weird to think of an Elephant with fingers :P
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Animals with claws don't get a special bonus to scratching, but scratch attacks are always calculated as if the nail is the size of the finger it's attached to, which is why (for humanoids) scratching is much more effective in combat than it ought to be.
That brings to mind... how long are an Elephant-Man's fingers? When I used one, I was capable of decapitating humanoids and chipping Bronze Colossi. Really weird to think of an Elephant with fingers :P
considering elephantmen are just Head and variation animal bits grafted on to a Human body then scale size accordingly to animal size, their nails are probably similar to a Giants.
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Rhino man is OP, his gore can pulp any medium creature's torso.
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[Shameless Self Promotion]I made a martial art for adventure mode, link in my signature.[/Shameless Self Promotion]
Your speed problems can be addressed by going from walking to jogging and carefully pausing one step to set up attacks.
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I've lurked there before, I enjoy your martial artistry. :)