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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: vjek on February 06, 2020, 01:41:37 pm

Title: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 06, 2020, 01:41:37 pm
Here's the guidelines & goals for this thread:
Post your interesting worldgen parameter sets for version 0.47.01+, along with a description of the 'ideal' embark you've found. Pictures of sites or directions to them (so others can find them) are especially helpful, but at the very least, try to provide others with the parameters for your new Fortress Paradise, roughly where your embark was and what you got out of it (features, resources). One man's Paradise is another man's Hidden Fun Stuff, so try to point out if you found any obvious problems (no underground plants, no iron known to playable civ, etc).

Got an embark situation you'd like to see? Ask for it, and perhaps a world that someone else has discarded would work better for you! Found an interesting embark with some unusual feature (Adamantine space elevators, tiny island off shore in the ocean, chasms open from surface to caverns)? Post it, and let others have some fun with what you've discovered!

A screenshot showing the embark location is ideal, if you are posting with a specific embark in mind, rather than just the entire world.
Please use spoiler and code tags where appropriate, to keep your posts a reasonable size.
To get things started, here's my first 0.47.01 parameter set, which features..
One living dwarven civ.
One enemy goblin civ.
Single cavern starts at 130, ends at 126.
Steel friendly (flux, iron, wood)!
Limestone from 132 to 128.
Magnetite, Limonite, Platinum on Z132 in NW quadrant.
Native gold also present (on 123 at least).
Slow filling fresh water from aquifer on 134 SE of center (or under any embark-layer red sand).
Magma Sea from 125 to 121.
Candy present. 
Sinister badlands + desert, adjacent to a Goblin Fortress. 
Dead surface trees, but no undead animals or re-animation, as far as I can tell.
Spoiler: 0.47.01 Desert1 (click to show/hide)
If someone could verify the world generates identically for them, and the embark is in the same location with the same features, that would be ideal.
EDIT:  Here is an HTML form you can save (as an .html file) and open locally (in your browser) for use as a template or starting point for making specific embark feature requests.  There's no logic/validation in this form, it just selects everything with a checkbox and then highlights the results so you can copy/paste that into a new post.  If you think something should be added to this form, PM me.
Spoiler: desired embark features (click to show/hide)
Also, the HTML form is hosted here (https://vjek.github.io/df_worldgen_parameters.html), on github pages, and should be usable by anyone.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 06, 2020, 04:07:29 pm
Looks the same as far as I can see (win 64).

Note that the surface vegetation death percentage is 100%, so there won't be any new trees, shrubs (for seeds), or grass (for grazing). I don't think death percentage affects caverns, though.

As suspected, there shouldn't be any reanimation, assuming the DFHack mapping of the field was correct.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 06, 2020, 04:10:55 pm
In this particular embark, breaching the cavern is a viable option for grazing grass, trees, etc, yep.
Thanks for the verification, PatrikLundell.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on February 06, 2020, 08:50:54 pm
Checked, looks identical: https://i.imgur.com/UN5CAGT.png

With 44.02, I and PL got different results with same params & no rejections, so this is good. Though there's less stuff here; comparing the previous test parameter set might be not a bad idea (though not necessarily good):

Spoiler: Params (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Expected result (click to show/hide)

Mind, these are old params without the new addition to wg params. If these match, checking a world with rejections might be prudent:

Spoiler: baseline pocket region included in 47.01 with A/B/C/D seeds (click to show/hide)

As for the bad stuff, I already confirmed in release thread that previous worldgens that used to not get rejections can now get some, and get different geography (not just evilness, as was the case with .44).

(All tests done on Lubuntu.)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 06, 2020, 09:09:20 pm
That's interesting.  When I just tested the ABCDPOCKET parameters, it's not identical to yours, yet, it generates consistently the same without rejections, on Win64:
(https://i.postimg.cc/TYCFvnxs/image.png)
It's like... the geography is identical, but the evilness and civ placement is different?  Some of the names are the same, but not the Age or figs/dead/events.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on February 06, 2020, 09:17:39 pm
Thought: Do the results match if one sets evilness and goodness to 0? test (https://i.imgur.com/qoTiWHT.png)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 06, 2020, 09:24:51 pm
Unfortunately, nope (https://i.postimg.cc/qvYk0PrW/image.png).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 08, 2020, 01:24:41 am
Here's one for 0.47.02 that I've been using for testing, and it seems pretty good.
Spoiler: 0.47.02 4civs3 (click to show/hide)
4civ3 - Embark level: Z125
A few surface trees, plants, and shrubs
Z119, SW quadrant: chalk, hematite, coal.  Steel friendly.
Lignite as well on Z117
Sand from Z124 - 121
Chalk from Z120 - 115
Cavern from Z109 - 105
Magma Sea Z102 - 97
Light aquifer Z122 - 121, (despite the no aquifer claim at embark/from the site finder), trivially walled off. Good fresh water source.
Candy spires x 2
Elves, Humans and Dwarves will come to trade.  Many different visitors will come if you have a tavern/inn.
Civilized World Population

   78 Dwarves
   405 Humans
   192 Elves

   Total: 675
EDIT: same world/embark, but better populations / more civs:
Spoiler: 4civs4 (click to show/hide)
Civilized World Population

   298 Dwarves
   769 Humans
   1640 Elves

   Total: 2707
Similar world, larger populations, with a steel friendly embark:
Spoiler: 4civs5 (click to show/hide)
Z121 limonite, magnetite, platinum (SE quadrant for sure, at least)
Z112 - 108 marble layers for flux
Z116 - 115 (and more) Native Gold
Z106 - 102 Magma Sea
Z116 - 112 Cavern
Candy
Trees on the surface
NE quadrant has light aquifer on Z122 at least, for fresh water.
Civilized World Population

   898 Dwarves
   503 Humans
   1337 Elves
   4020 Goblins

   Total: 6758
Ok, I've never seen this before, maybe others have..
In this 0.47.02 world, as time progresses, all the civs are placed, the goblins start expanding, their evil starts to spread, then... they're conquered.  The evil geography recedes, and their dark fortress is surrounded by monastaries, in the region tiles where the evil geography receded from.
Spoiler: D_CONQ_G_1 (click to show/hide)
The dark fortress is now:
4: Ozudstran, "Ruthlessbiles", dark fortress
   Owner: The Rags of Hoping, dwarves
   Parent Civ: The Flag of Lashing, dwarves
   administrator: Rimtar Figureconvents, goblin
   108 dwarves
   589 goblins
--
Civilized World Population

   971 Dwarves
   878 Humans
   1504 Elves
   1484 Goblins

   Total: 4837
--
I've gone to the monasteries in Adventure mode and completed quests for their NPCs. (retrieved a buckler artifact from an underground dwarf fortress in the northwest)
Earlier today, I saw a similar worldgen where the goblins were eliminated from the world.  Honestly, I've never seen that before utilizing this world layout. 
Invariably, in the past, they dominated everyone/everything, if they existed at all.  Now that their existence is actually variable?  That's pretty amazing, to me.  :o
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: DrCyano on February 08, 2020, 11:56:36 pm
Here's some world-gen parameters I cooked-up to focus your world on certain challenges (copy-paste params into data/init/world-gen.txt and then use Design new world with advanced parameters to use these world-gen formulas):

The Misty Isles
This world is designed to create several full of temperate-climate islands with varied amounts of evil and savagery, allowing you to choose the level of danger for each embark.

For an extra fun challenge, visit your embark locations in Adventure Mode before embarking in Fortress mode, building bridge forts to connect the islands.

Example map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

params:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



The Infernal Desert
Dare you try to colonize the Infernal Desert? You may have once scoffed at trees and water, but here you will miss them dearly.

Good for fortress players looking for a less typical experience or story tellers wanting to tell a "wasteland survival" fortress story.

Example map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

params:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


The Savage Jungle
The story: you lead a team of Dwarven explorers who seek to cut their way from the coast into the heart of the jungle, hoping to pry treasure from the ruins and remains who had come before you, only to be consumed by the ever-hungry jungle.

Example map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

params:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


The Frozen (evil) Volcano
This is hard mode! In this evil frozen land, can you claim the three volcanoes for all of Dwarf kind? Or will you just feed the undead monsters who prowl this Armok-foresaken wasteland?

Example map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

params:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on February 09, 2020, 11:49:25 pm
So I'm trying very hard to get a pocket-sized world with a dead civilization. All the civs I get are dying, but not dead. Is there a quick way to check this, or a way to encourage it in world gen parameters?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 10, 2020, 01:31:39 am
This civ shows as dead or dying, and there are no dwarves alive in the world.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
From what I recall (I don't recall which version), the 'c'iv screen has to be empty (immediately after embark) in order for a civ to be considered truly dead, I think?  That's not the case here, so.. it might still be considered dying.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on February 10, 2020, 03:04:33 am
I've heard that 'c' thing before, but have never confirmed it for myself. Every world I've generated has been dying according to that - and 3 trials (getting to autumn) has shown that the civ was dying and not dead. Meaning that hasn't disproven or proven it yet.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 10, 2020, 03:20:57 am
The empty civ screen civ sub screen is the only known way to establish that DF considers a civ to be dead. Due to bugged accounting DF thinks there are still pop in most civs that haven't had a member for 1000 years, doesn't have any site, etc.
Thus, most civs that should be dead aren't, according to DF's decision process.
Note that this was valid in 0.44.12 and earlier, but nothing I've heard indicates it should have changed.

Also note that DF culls dead civs from the civ selection screen pre embark, which means you can only embark as a truly dead civ if ALL playable civs are truly dead. As a result of that, you should change the entity_defaults.txt entry for dorfs to only generate a single civ, and then you might get a dead one among the first 20 or so that appear to be dead.
The method I used when relying on pure vanilla methods (which is what's available for 0.47.X currently) was to generate a world, see that the civ looked dead, do a default embark at a random location (i.e. just get it over with), check the civ-civ screen, and kill DF. If the civ-civ screen showed the civ was truly dead, I'd then embark properly, otherwise it was time to generate a new world.
Note that you have to ensure auto save on embark is disabled for the method to work.

The world gen encouragement I use is to have many megabeasts and/or titans to get a good chance of the civ being killed off quickly and early, before it establishes a second site. This makes it tricky, though, as those same monsters also tend to wipe out everyone else, leading to a balancing act between dorf destruction and total destruction.

Finally, note that truly dead civs are completely incapable of getting any units sent out to either reach a destination or return. Presumably dead civs don't have to move armies, and so don't move your fortress' armies...
Adding to that, pocket worlds are lousy at providing your fortress with visitors (I've had a total of 1 in a dozen or so attempts before giving up, but others have reported it actually does happen). Thus, don't be surprised if it might turn out that all your visitors are the new nefarious ones...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on February 10, 2020, 03:56:27 am
Thanks PatrikLundell - I had just gone back looking at old posts of yours on this topic. I managed to get 3 dead civilizations (according to c>c). I generated pocket worlds, low sites, high beasts. And would test them out whenever DF crashed in world generation (about 1/40 generations). Mostly this was for speed, but ensured there was only 1 dwarven civ per generation, and increased the likelihood of the original site immediately dying.

I got about a 10% hit rate, I think.

I think there's something up with forts (not fortresses) - aside from the infinite fort wars. A couple of these that looked like they should at least be dying wouldn't even give the dead/dying warning on embarking. This only happened on worlds with forts/monasteries - even if they weren't dwarven controlled.

I can upload those dead civ saves, if anyone wants them.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 10, 2020, 12:43:34 pm
This 0.47.02 worldgen has an empty 'c'iv screen, and no living dwarves.
Spoiler: empty civ screen post embark (click to show/hide)
I remember some details about this from previous versions now, after reviewing some old posts.  If you have enough semi/mega/titans in the world, you can examine the world_sites_and_pops.txt and note that there is a fortress, but no living dwarves, and just animals there.  I call it the "2 dogs, 2 cats" indicator, because that's ~always the first two members of the dead civ fort. 
That, from what I saw this morning, increases the chance of the civ showing up dead.  But if you just have goblins+demons, it has no bearing, doesn't matter, and is not an indicator.
I only mention this as a bit of a potential time saver.
No outpost liaison sent in the first year, no migrants after the first two waves.  Definitely a dead civ.
Another empty civ screen example for 0.47.02; this one with different results in world_sites_and_pops.txt. 
This world still has 2 living dwarves, but the fortress site has no entity entries.  No forgotten beast, no megabeast, no animals, nothing:
Sites

1: Idashoddom, "Moistcloister", fortress
2: Ospurar, "Fountainmaligned", dark fortress
...
Also, this one has just a single goblin civ, and 4 megabeasts. (dragon, roc, hydra, bronze colossus).  The entire world has just 12 sites, total.
Spoiler: empty_civ2 (click to show/hide)
Third example, forgotten beast resident in the single fortress, 27 dwarf prisoners (of 27 total dwarves in the world), dwarf fort (with zero dwarves in it), dwarf camp conquered by goblins(?), empty 'c'iv screen on embark:
Spoiler: empty_civ3 (click to show/hide)
Fourth example of an empty 'c'iv screen at embark, for a dead dwarven civ; 26 elves, no goblins, while 2 megabeasts were generated, neither apparently survived to Year 200, as there are no lairs for them.
Spoiler: empty_civ4 (click to show/hide)
On the plus side, once embarked, you're at war with the remaining elves.  8)
Ok, this one is pretty awesome.  Dead civ, no sentients. Dragon in the ruins of the fort.  I checked it out in Adventure mode, sure enough..  Dragon just hanging out, near the fort entrance.  :o
World has 7 sites total, and 5 of them are just normal lairs.  If you ever wanted to fight a Dragon in adventure mode, as the only hero in the world, here's your chance.
Spoiler: Dead Civ, One Dragon (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Deinos on February 12, 2020, 08:43:12 am
Anyone got a pocket or smaller world with a lot of necrotowers?

Something like a safe island with an elven forest retreat would be desired, but really the top priority is exploring a world with lots of necro-secrets.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 12, 2020, 09:31:15 am
Here's three that might suit your purposes, Deinos.
Spoiler: 4TOWERS (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 5TOWERS (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 7TOWERS (click to show/hide)
They're all pocket worlds with various numbers of towers, many have creatures, catastrophes, mistakes, follies, eyes, hands, hounds, nightmares, etc, and some have hundreds of tower denizens.
EDIT: Also, this one. 1000 year history, 1188 Dwarves, 1665 Humans, 2096 Elves. No goblins.  No Necro Lieutenants, No Necro Summons.
Many of the towers have hundreds of animated humans, dwarves, and elves, with two sites having over 1100 animated elves, each.
In general, it appears the civs are not overrun, with these settings.  This world has 333 lair sites.
Spoiler: 15_TOWERS (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Deinos on February 13, 2020, 01:14:13 pm
Oh wow, these look fun, thanks! The map setup reminds me of Silky Sands... but of course eviller. Dunno if its intended, but I got the Third Age of Fairy Tales or something like that when loading the 7towers one, which is new to me.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on February 13, 2020, 07:25:07 pm
Since things can be wiped out, but then brought back as wandering corpses, the age system really goes weird - and I really like that.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 15, 2020, 11:07:25 am
A couple of less dangerous 0.47.02 worlds/embarks.  Each has several hundred Dwarves, Elves, and Humans, with no Goblins.

Spoiler: 3civs_peace1 (click to show/hide)
164 poems, 116 music/songs, 83 dances.  Human bards and other visitors instantly arrive as soon as you create a tavern/inn.

Spoiler: 3civs_peace2 (click to show/hide)
147 poems, 166 music/songs, 83 dances.  Human bards and other visitors arrive very soon after you create a tavern/inn.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: jecowa on February 16, 2020, 02:51:24 pm
I found some seeds that don't crash after 1050 years (very long history). Times reported are from a Zen 2 desktop.

Small world, Very Long history (15 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Small world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Small world seed (click to show/hide)

Medium world, Very Long history (38 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Medium world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Medium world seed (click to show/hide)

Large world, Very Long history (1 hour, 35 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Large world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Large world seed (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 12:42:04 am
I've been making world after world and can't luck out with my dream embark.  Looking for advice.

I gen higher savagery and no vampire curses.  I also max volcanoes and edited out aquifers in raws.  Otherwise pretty standard...

I've been searching for a 4x4 embark with the following:
Nearby gob, human, elven and dwarven civs
Surface volcano
Trees (preferably including fruit trees)
Flux layer
Sand AND clay
A good-sized layer or two of soil/clay/sand for underground pasture
Multiple metals (to include iron)

I always end up with everything but sand, or a river tile, or one race missing, or no iron.  Argh!

Thanks for any help/advice.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 17, 2020, 01:10:06 am
Only part of that list that might be a bit tricky is the volcano.  Do you want a 100% flat embark, including the volcano, or does neither matter?
The rest is very easy, generally.  In 47.01+, light aquifers are trivial to dig through, but if you want no aquifer, or just a partial one for fresh water, let me know.
I'll work on it tomorrow morning, based on your responses.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 01:21:33 am
It doesn't need to be flat, just flat enough that wagons can path to my fort.  I always just dig into the side of a hill/mountain.

You will have to fill me in on what I'm doing wrong here.  I downloaded the biome manipulator and tried running it and it just crashed immediately.  I'm guessing due to .41>.47.

Thanks so much!

Edit: is it too much to ask for some gypsum as well as long as I'm asking for the world?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 17, 2020, 02:38:25 am
@teh sam: Can you give more details about how the biome manipulated crashed, i.e. did it crash immediately when you called it, or did it crash when you tried to do something? The only "testing" I've done so far is to see that it did not crash when started, and then immediately quit it. If I know what causes it to fail I can probably fix it (there is a thread for the tool in the Utilities and 3rd Party Application section, in order not to clutter this thread).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 04:19:14 am
@PatrikLundell:  The crash was instantaneous when I called the script.  I've never used it, so I wasn't 100% sure when to run it.  I selected my embark area and was in the midst of "preparing carefully".  I believe the forum thread just said you could do it before embark.  Perhaps that was the wrong time to call the script?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 17, 2020, 04:56:08 am
Quote from: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 04:19:14 am
@PatrikLundell:  The crash was instantaneous when I called the script.  I've never used it, so I wasn't 100% sure when to run it.  I selected my embark area and was in the midst of "preparing carefully".  I believe the forum thread just said you could do it before embark.  Perhaps that was the wrong time to call the script?
Thanks for the answer. It's an unusual time to call it, as I usually do that before actually selecting the site, but I just tried to do that and it started normally (and I don't know of any reason for why it shouldn't work: there's no dependency on which screen you're on. I've used it during world gen as well). Without being able to replicate it and without any DFHack window traceback I'm afraid I can't do much. Please try again and report any info that might help me, as I don't like to have bugs lurking in the shadows.

I can mention that the Embark Assistant plugin allows you to search for volcanoes, flux, sand, clay, and iron, as well as gypsum (economic) (with pasture provided automatically thorough the presence of sand/clay). You can select the region type to be Jungle (which really means any kind of forest) to ensure trees, although that misses out on the other types that have trees (various types of grassland, for instance). Given that most environment have trees, I'd just check the matching sites to verify they do have trees. The plugin doesn't support search for neighbors, though.
However, volcanoes are rare, gypsum specific, and I think only one of the iron ores tends to be present near volcanoes, so I would expect you to have to generate quite a few worlds to find a single location with everything.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 17, 2020, 11:18:48 am
Quote from: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 01:21:33 am
It doesn't need to be flat, just flat enough that wagons can path to my fort.  I always just dig into the side of a hill/mountain.
...
Edit: is it too much to ask for some gypsum as well as long as I'm asking for the world?
No problem, this should meet your needs:
Spoiler: teh_sam1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 12:32:40 pm
Quote from: vjek on February 17, 2020, 11:18:48 am
Quote from: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 01:21:33 am
It doesn't need to be flat, just flat enough that wagons can path to my fort.  I always just dig into the side of a hill/mountain.
...
Edit: is it too much to ask for some gypsum as well as long as I'm asking for the world?
No problem, this should meet your needs:

I'm so sorry, somehow I forgot to add in that I'd like a river tile in my 4x4 embark.  Perhaps I should start with yours and try that biome manipulator to add one?  (Does biome manipulator support adding river tiles?)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 17, 2020, 12:51:20 pm
No worries, I'll see what I can find with a river tile.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 17, 2020, 12:59:00 pm
Quote from: vjek on February 17, 2020, 12:51:20 pm
No worries, I'll see what I can find with a river tile.

I played with biomemanipulator and was able to move the river to go through the embark.  (What an awesome tool!)  Took me a couple tries to realize that moving the path of the river actually moved the volcano tile each time.  That lead to some confusion.

Something else bizarre, when I went to embark, I got the warning that there were no cave spider silk items available, only giant.  I didn't know you could gen a world without cave spiders.  Or maybe that means that the dwarven civ hasn't domesticated them?  I've just never seen that error before, but to be fair I never genned worlds this small before.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 17, 2020, 01:20:57 pm
The Region Manipulator allows you to adjust things on the Mid Level Tile level (i.e. what's in your embark tiles). It's a complement to the Biome Manipulator for the detailed scale (and with trial and error you can do wonky stuff like a circular river with it).

Apparently you got the Biome Manipulator working, though, which is great.

Cave spiders are vermin, and thus animals (which cannot be domesticated, but they spread webs all over the caverns), and apparently they aren't present in your civ's starting city's neighborhood (i.e. the caverns below it, I'd assume). Each plant and animal may randomly be available in each of the biomes they're valid for, so your civ presumably lucked out. It's not important in most cases though.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 17, 2020, 01:38:05 pm
Here's one that matches, with surface flowing water, in a 4x4.
Spoiler: teh_sam2 (click to show/hide)
Also found this historically desirable embark, a volcano and surface flowing water in a 2x2, steel friendly
Spoiler: volc_riv_sf1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teh sam on February 18, 2020, 09:42:19 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on February 17, 2020, 01:20:57 pm
The Region Manipulator allows you to adjust things on the Mid Level Tile level (i.e. what's in your embark tiles). It's a complement to the Biome Manipulator for the detailed scale (and with trial and error you can do wonky stuff like a circular river with it).

Apparently you got the Biome Manipulator working, though, which is great.

Cave spiders are vermin, and thus animals (which cannot be domesticated, but they spread webs all over the caverns), and apparently they aren't present in your civ's starting city's neighborhood (i.e. the caverns below it, I'd assume).

Is region manipulator part of the same script and I just didn't notice?  I'll have to take a better look and see what I can tinker with.  Thanks!  Also thought cave spiders were ubiquitous, but with a small enough world that makes perfect sense.

Quote from: vjek on February 17, 2020, 01:38:05 pm
Here's one that matches, with surface flowing water, in a 4x4.
Spoiler: teh_sam2 (click to show/hide)
Also found this historically desirable embark, a volcano and surface flowing water in a 2x2, steel friendly
Spoiler: volc_riv_sf1 (click to show/hide)

This is great, especially that 2x2.  I have been playing 4x4 and I'm already getting considerable slowdown and feel like it's way too early.  It's odd though, I feel like I had a much more complicated forts in the past that didn't bog down this early.  I'm guessing maybe it's all the fluid mechanics of the volcano layers (and river).  Or maybe it's just more systems since my last fort.

Thanks again for the help!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 18, 2020, 11:33:56 am
The Region Manipulator is a separate script: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164136.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164136.0).

Cave spiders cannot be exterminate if they're present, but they can be completely absent (as can any vermin). The more common they are the less likely it is they're not present.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dark One on February 21, 2020, 10:40:14 am
Spoiler: Small Map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Large Map (click to show/hide)

Generated a large world with High number of Civ/Sites, Very High number of beasts, Very High natural savagery and Frequent minerals. The world features a large mainland with mountain ranges sprawling all across it, north pole and several populated and uninhabited islands. There are numerous necro towers in evil or savage biomes and many cool spots, like: Two gobbo enclaves in the glaciers, one featuring an additional necro tower, or a savage biome with two neighboring volcanoes, necro towers and several human and goblin forts around. High number of civs and goblin settlements means that there's some !!FUN!! bound to happen, as well as make for an interesting adventure runs. The world ran for 250 years and is still in the age of myth.

Full worldgen Params:
Code: [Select]
Created in DF v0.47.03.

[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:CREATE WORLD NOW = 5344554]
[SEED:DzEgnYAKGU5xn9LzhkLg]
[HISTORY_SEED:PecvoaFauL3Q9SrevVlc]
[NAME_SEED:RbMPHipfjyLKg5fXnvB8]
[CREATURE_SEED:MF0goYcmCeefc5awwRlk]
[DIM:257:257]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:250]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:250:-1]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:1:400:1600:1600]
[RAINFALL:0:100:400:400]
[TEMPERATURE:25:75:400:400]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:400:400]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:400:400]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:400:400]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:3:1:2:3:4:5]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[POLE:NORTH_AND_OR_SOUTH]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:150]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:300]
[TITAN_NUMBER:66]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:52]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:26]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:26]
[NIGHTMARE_NUMBER:26]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:26]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:26]
[WEREBEAST_ATTACK_TRIGGER:50:5000:50000]
[SECRET_NUMBER:52]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:52]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:52]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:26]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:26]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[ALLOW_DIVINATION:1]
[ALLOW_DEMONIC_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_LIEUTENANTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_GHOULS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_SUMMONS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:24:244:0]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:24:244:0]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:4]
[VOLCANO_MIN:4]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:252:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:252:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1008:3:2]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2016:2:2]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2016:1:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:63:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:126:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2016:3:2]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2016:3:2]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
[RIVER_MINS:100:100]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:3500]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:80]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:120]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:80]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:2000]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:33000:4032:2016]
[RAIN_RANGES:2016:4032:2016]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:2016:4032:2016]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:8256:16512]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:2016:4032:2016]
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Imic on February 21, 2020, 03:29:53 pm
It’s been a long time since I got involved with worldgen, but while my main world in the previous version was satisfactory, after a lot of fiddling around I have yet to get a single World in which all the civs were actually on the same continent, and I’m really, really not savvy enough with Worldgen to do anything about it. So how Wouod one go about creating a (preferably medium sized) World with just the one big continent?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 21, 2020, 04:12:55 pm
With advanced world gen, go for regions, as that means the world isn't split up into several continents. You may still get islands, though.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: blue emu on February 23, 2020, 09:18:03 pm
How do you maximize the amount of candy in a 3x3 or 4x4 embark?

DF 47.03 no mods.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 23, 2020, 10:26:23 pm
It's formed from the circus, through the SMR sea, then through the magma sea, then to the first cavern, at least.
I think, if memory serves, if there is more than one cavern, it will go through the bottom one through to the next higher one.  So if there were three, and three is the bottom, there is a chance it will go through cavern three into cavern two. Maybe.
If that's true, then having the largest possible layer count from the circus to the bottom of layer 2 would, I think, get you the longest possible spires.
As for spire count, I don't think anything determines that, in particular?  But I have seen at least 2 spires in a 2x2, so in a 4x4, maybe you could get 8 spires?  Possibly more.
I'll do some experiments and see what's typical and/or rare.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on February 23, 2020, 10:41:42 pm
Haven't seen a spire go to caverns above bottom one. That said, if you want max candy with 2 or 1 cavern worlds, below is useful snippet:
Quote from: PatrikLundell on September 22, 2017, 02:19:49 am
To get much candy you want your spire(s) to be as tall as possible. DF has a bug in its spire generation for worlds that have less than 3 cavern which causes spires that are set to reach the 3:rd cavern (and 2:nd, if only one layer is generated) to fail to appear at all. This bug can be corrected by changing the tubes to reach the 2:nd (or 1:st with a single cavern) level instead. It's also possible to use the same logic to stretch a tube that's set not to reach the caverns to reach the first 1 (regardless of number of caverns) for maximum spire length. This DFHack script fixes spires that would fail to appear due to the bug: https://github.com/PatrikLundell/scripts/blob/master/candy_corrector.lua (https://github.com/PatrikLundell/scripts/blob/master/candy_corrector.lua). Beware that if you're going to use the script's logic to hack spires manually, DF doesn't actually populate the data structure entries until the world tile the data applies to is in the embark focus. Trying to hack data without having it loaded can either result in a crash (if the high level feature shell isn't loaded) or failure to find any data to manipulate.

In addition to this, specifying a lot of levels between the magma sea and the lowest cavern will result in a lot of spire levels if the spire is set to (actually) reach that cavern.

I'd just set the wg parameters to maximize spire length then use PatrikLundell's embark-assistant min/max adamantine to find sites with maximum number of possible spires. Being that they're distributed in random square in 2x2 local map tile, with each one having one normally, a 3x3 embark can have max of 4 (same for 2x2), and 4x4 max of of 9.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 23, 2020, 11:07:48 pm
Yeah, after a few dozen worldgens, the most common I've seen in 0.47.0x is:
With three caverns, it's reasonably common to find a spire that will run from the magma sea to the bottom of the third cavern.
So, a quick and easy method would be to increment that value (Z Levels Above Layer 4) to 100, and you should be able to find a huge spire with that.
If it doesn't work for you, I have a saved demo set that has a spire from 20 to 120, and being solid 94 to 120.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 24, 2020, 05:58:46 am
As mentioned, there is exactly one spire in each 2*2 MLT area (when the bug doesn't cause a defined one to fail to appear: it's defined nevertheless), aligned with the edges (i.e. X= 0-1, 2-3, 3-4,.. and the same for Y).

In addition to searching, you can also hack it, either manually or using the feature manipulation features of the Region Manipulator http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164136.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164136.0) immediately prior to embark. The tool allows you to move spires within their 2*2 "cells", as well as changing their target layer (e.g. stretch from the magma sea up to cavern 1). It does not allow you to create new spires or move spires outside of their cells (but does allow for generation of e.g. volcanoes). Whether DF allows that is unknown to me: I haven't tried. Note that hacking may cause interference with other features.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Taras on February 24, 2020, 06:08:57 am
How make a world, that will be all spreaded by evil surroundings? Not covered from start, but fully dominated by goblins and necromancers.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: NordicNooob on February 24, 2020, 12:08:53 pm
Quote from: Taras on February 24, 2020, 06:08:57 am
How make a world, that will be all spreaded by evil surroundings? Not covered from start, but fully dominated by goblins and necromancers.

You may want the raws for that one, specifically entity_default. There's only a few things you'll be interested in; I'd suggest making a note of them (just type something out next to them, like their original value, to make them noticeable) so that you can change them back to normal later without copy/pasting entity_default over itself. Keep your changes organized and well noted, or your raws will become a mess and you'll have to either redownload and steal some fresh raws or copy/paste unchanged raws from the wiki, both of which are annoying.

Spoiler: Site settings (click to show/hide)
You'll want to look at this block on every civ. You can just turn off the races you don't want with MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER, and by setting MAX_POP_NUMBER to 1, you can get dwarves to instantly die out but still normally be playable. I don't typically tweak MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER, but it's still in the trio, I guess. At the very least, set MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER to 1 on every race except goblins, you'll need as many goblin civs as you can get.
Next up, you'll need to make goblins able to make necro towers. They need to both have gods (to bestow the power) and be mortal, which requires a brief trip to creature_standard. Just CTRL-C/CTRL-V the goblin religion spoiler into their entity, and give goblins a [MAXAGE:999999:999999] in creature_standard, which keeps them effectively immortal but still technically mortal for our purposes.
Spoiler: Goblin religion (click to show/hide)
The last thing you need to do is the most complicated. Look at the block of settings that contain the information regarding biome support.
Spoiler: Biome Support (click to show/hide)
For dwarves, it looks like that, but just keep an eye out for the BIOME_SUPPORT tags, they're the ones you want. Remove some of them; I like to just put a -- in place of the first open bracket of each thing I want to remove, which nullifies the tag without permanently deleting it, so I can undo the changes later. This requires some tweaking, re-launching the game, and seeing how civs spread. Your goal is to limit the spread of elves, dwarves, and humans (without killing them, unless that's what you want, in which case don't fiddle with this, just set starting civ number to 0 or max pop number to 1) so that goblins can truly dominate. It's not entirely necessary for your goal, but it will help make it more likely. I normally set dwarves to only settle in mountains if I want to limit their spread, and humans and elves can just have a few random biome types poked out of their biome support to slow them down.

And then you're basically done! Crank up the civ count as high as you can without placement errors, turn down max site cap and max pop cap (so you can gen your world for a long time without freezing every year), and watch the evil spread! The basic idea should function in almost any type of world, so you don't have to worry too much about your parameters affecting your goal in a detrimental way.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 24, 2020, 04:24:56 pm
Quote from: Taras on February 24, 2020, 06:08:57 am
How make a world, that will be all spreaded by evil surroundings? Not covered from start, but fully dominated by goblins and necromancers.
So, from what I've seen, this is a bit tricky, and I'll explain what I mean.
If you generate this world:
Spoiler: gob-nec1 (click to show/hide)
what you find is that the evil starts to spread, then... conquers everything, and appears to retreat?  There's no doubt, evil spreads.  You can see it as the worldgen proceeds.
I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but if I understand your request correctly, you want all the towers at their maximum evil extent, geographically, right?
Or do you want everything conquered? Because at least under some conditions, those two states might be mutually exclusive..
Although to fulfill your request, it might simply be picking the right year to stop worldgen, depending on the current extent of tower evil.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Ketsuban on February 27, 2020, 06:55:11 pm
There's a lot of worlds here which are deliberately as difficult as possible; how about one designed to be easy?

More specifically: I feel like Toady One designed most of the new features like werecreatures and necromancers thinking first and foremost of adventure mode, and in fortress mode the only effect they have is randomly destroying fortresses which stand no chance against them. Losing may be fun, but that doesn't sound like fun to me.

That said I'm not looking for an uber-custom place to embark with all the amenities in a 2x2 square, so I don't need or particularly want a specific seed so much as a profile very likely to generate the kind of world I'm looking for - as FPS-friendly a world as possible with at least one civilisation each of dwarves, elves, humans and goblins, all of whom are in range of most if not all of the possible embarks; not too savage or evil; wide-open caverns; and as many of the following as you can manage:
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 27, 2020, 09:29:24 pm
This should, in general, meet your requirements, Ketsuban:
Spoiler: 4civs_ketsuban (click to show/hide)
Only thing to mention is, if you want a more lush embark, you can increase the rain from 1 to 9 on the PS_RF: lines. 
I don't usually like doing that because.. in fortress mode, after 3 years, with rain 9 you'll have so many surface trees, it's absurd, but at least you know.  8)
Similarly, if 50/100 savagery is too high, you can adjust the PS_SV: lines from 50 to 10 or 1, or whatever you wish.
Typical Populations would be something like:
Civilized World Population

   401 Dwarves
   1071 Humans
   1254 Elves
   1928 Goblins

   Total: 4654
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: CABL on February 28, 2020, 03:26:32 am
I'm looking for a high savagery* rocky wasteland/mountain type of embark.

More details in a list below:
Iron and Flux stone available, essential.
Coal available, extremely desired.
Native Gold and Platinum, very desired.
No soil or sand, extremely desired.
Gypsum, Alabaster, or other stones to make casting powder from, a nice bonus.
No strong feelings towards Aquifers, I don't care as long as it's not a major one.
No rivers, preferably.
Only two cavern levels, but at least one with a source of water.
Temperature can be up to Scorching, as long the dwarves don't melt.
Goblin, Human and Elven civs nearby, very desired. No strong feelings about Towers/Necromancers.
High amount of mega and semi-mega beasts, almost a hundred and almost two hundreds, respectively.
Reduced amount of night creature types. from 5 to 10.
To counteract high savagery and beasts, have at least 50 civs.
Small world size; my PC is powerful, but I still would like the worldgen to be quick.
Speaking of the worldgen, 35 years of history, and no more.
*As high as possible without severe population drops in the rest of the world.
Magma and candy are present, duh!

If there are any important details missing in the list, or something is too ridiculous and can't handle the worldgen, lemme know.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 28, 2020, 03:55:43 pm
This one should match, CABL.
Untamed Wilds half mountain, half rocky wasteland.
Water in caverns, partial light aquifer in half.
Prospect, I believe, covers the rest.
Spoiler: small_cabl1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on February 29, 2020, 09:49:35 pm
I've uploaded a collection of dead civilization worlds here (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14879), in case anyone was interested in trying out a dead civ.

All are pocket-sized.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: CABL on February 29, 2020, 11:37:23 pm
Quote from: vjek on February 28, 2020, 03:55:43 pm
This one should match, CABL.

Late reply, but thank you! Shame about the elves, though.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: deknegt on March 02, 2020, 09:41:11 am
I can't make heads or tails out of advanced gen, so I am dropping my question here.

I am looking for:
- A singular giant (127x127/254x254) pangaea island world. One giant landmass, surrounded by oceans on all sides. With few to no islands around it.
- Open spacious cavern layers, rather than the grated cheese motif you get in default gens.
- Not having to dig down too far for the layers, I'd say 50-75 layers max to hit 'funland'.
Nice to haves:
- The world doesn't have to be old.
- A few flat volcanoes would be interesting, if only so I can mess around with some more martial based forts. But cavern layers with pasta sauce not too far down would also be nice.
- Go wild on the biomes, not a fan of evil shenanigans. But since it's going to be an island, there's room for all flavours on the pizza planet.
- Mineral densities about middle of the road, don't want to drown in it, but also don't want to have a fort where all I get to smelt is tin and zinc.

If some of these requests are unrealistic, then feel free to tell me, I have no clue how to make world gen do all the things.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 02, 2020, 04:37:20 pm
Nothing too unusual in this list of requirements, deknegt.  The only thing that really adds any time to it is the volcano.
This world & embark matches, as far as I can tell.  You can remove the seeds if you don't like layout & populations, it typically generates without rejections, regardless of seeds.
Spoiler: DEKNEGT_PIZZA1 (click to show/hide)
But a few comments.
I know a lot of players want or like volcanoes for a few different reasons.  In general, though, the following is true;  It's trivial to make a world that is so shallow that the magma sea is closer (in steps, to travel/walk) from the surface than the volcano would be, from the embark wagon.  As in, if you embark adjacent to or diagonally to the tile the surface volcano is on, it takes more than 20 steps to reach it.  While you could just dig less than 20 steps down and reach the magma sea.
So while it's true there are some megaprojects that need particular configurations of volcanoes, like +20Z of magma above the embark level, if it's just to get access to magma forges, it's adding a whole bunch of restriction that isn't really necessary, if you're counting pathfinding footsteps.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: deknegt on March 03, 2020, 10:01:44 am
Much obliged. The volcano honestly was more like a nice to have rather than a must have. But you went above and beyond, and I am very grateful for the effort you put into things. :)

When I get home, I'll start playing with my fantasy pizza!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: ArmokGoB on March 08, 2020, 08:21:14 pm
Here's a set of parameters I've been playing in and tweaking.

Spoiler: Valhalla (click to show/hide)

I wanted a long map with freezing mountains/volcanoes at the top and a complete edge ocean at the bottom. Still a bit of refinement to go, but the current iteration is pretty cool. Most likely there will be several hundred rejections if you try to gen it yourself, but it will work eventually.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Superdorf on March 08, 2020, 11:00:41 pm
Valhalla generated after two rejects. Is a beautiful world-- I'll have to roll up an adventurer and do some exploring! :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on March 14, 2020, 11:39:22 am
I have a simple request that may not be so simple. All I want is a Small or Medium world that has, somewhere in it, an evil biome with a fog that makes husks. I don't care about any other aspects of the world. I can mess with them myself. But I've generated 6 worlds now and checked every evil biome in every one, and so far I've only found a single fog that made dwarves cough blood. This is ridiculous. Please help me?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 14, 2020, 01:16:23 pm
This world has a cloud that turns things to husks:
Spoiler: vile_gloom (click to show/hide)
It's EVIL_CLOUD_3 and named "vile gloom" and produces "vile gloom husks".
Similarly, EVIL_CLOUD_9, named "haunting vapor" also produces "haunting vapor husks".
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on March 14, 2020, 02:19:59 pm
I've generated worlds with lots of evil clouds, the problem is, none of those materials are actually showing up in the world. Even reducing reanimation and evil rain interactions to 0 results in evil areas with no weather at all. Basically, I'm asking for confirmation that a particular biome actually has that weather.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on March 14, 2020, 03:22:48 pm
Quote from: TheFlame52 on March 14, 2020, 02:19:59 pm
I've generated worlds with lots of evil clouds, the problem is, none of those materials are actually showing up in the world. Even reducing reanimation and evil rain interactions to 0 results in evil areas with no weather at all. Basically, I'm asking for confirmation that a particular biome actually has that weather.
The Biome Manipulator http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.msg7495705#msg7495705 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.msg7495705#msg7495705) allows you to look at which interactions different regions have, as well as add/replace/remove an interaction. You'd probably have to do that before embark, but I don't think I've tried afterwards.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 14, 2020, 07:59:11 pm
This world and embark..
Spoiler: husks (click to show/hide)
Has husk-ifying evil clouds.  100% guaranteed/verified.  REGIONAL_4, EVIL_CLOUD_3, vile gloom husks.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on March 15, 2020, 09:37:17 am
Thank you!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: gnurro on March 19, 2020, 08:15:35 am
I've been trying to find worldgen values that produce worlds with a lot of civilized animal people. By 'a lot' I mean having them everywhere in copious numbers and thus at least somehow likely to visit my fortress. I thought I'd SCIENCE a little, so I made up some measurements....

My criteria for checking how 'animal people friendly' a world is right off the bat:

- Relative number of historic animal people. (Count of occurence of '_MAN' in the legends xml dump compared to the total number of historic figures.)
I guess if worldgen produces many animal people that actually do something in the world (even if it's just luckily dying of old age), it is likely to do so when running a fortress. I haven't checked if this shows in fortress mode, but it nicely corresponds to the next criterium.

- Amount of playable civilized animal people types in adventurer.
For people to visit in fortress mode, they have to be part of a civilization. Bonus for spread out populations, because one elven civilization with three bird people kinds doesn't really help much with spreading animal people. I have had animal people join any kind of civilization in worldgen, not just elves, so I consider rat people living with humans another success.

- How many animal people visitors actually show up.
I had a wren woman bard once. She was awesome .... and kinda the cause why I even try to get this kind of world again. I'll need to see how the first two criteria even correspond. There's a myriad of other factors in a running fortress, so i guess this is somewhat arbritrary anyways.

I've had success pushing the relative historic animal people number and adventurer opportunities up a lot by forcing more savagery (min savagery at 25-30, high number of high-savagery tiles to not reject) and having more varied regions by forcing one of each of the main region types. Both animal people criteria easily double consistently doing this. 'Sprinkling' the savagery about with high variance values helped enourmously with rejections while still producing higher amounts of animal people. I guess a settlement doesn't need to be smack-dab in the middle of a max-savagery area to get animal people in world gen, as this helped a lot with human and dwarf civs having some. My wren bard came from a dwarven civ.

I've been generating 65x65 worlds for easier iteration - does this limit the possibilities too much? Has anyone scienced this stuff before? Do you guys maybe have a fancy trick my rusty DF brain just skips?

I know there's hacky ways to make the number of animal people explode, but i'd rather see what vanilla can come up with in this case. (Allowing all civs to settle in savagery would surely produce a lot of civilized animal people...)

...triple bonus points for anyone finding parameters that produce giant animal people in any kind of predictable fashion. A fellow player had a giant peach faced lovebird person visit. (v.47.04)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 19, 2020, 11:28:36 am
In general, I've noticed that following, regarding animal men:
They typically appear in elvish civs more than others, but I've seen them in human and dwarf civs too.
I've seen up to 89 of a particular single type of animal men in a single civ.
I've seen up to 4 distinct types, in quantities over 10, in a single civ.

This morning, I gen'd a world, embarked, and immediately had a dingo-man lasher visit my tavern (within the first month) after embarking.
But since then, I haven't been able to reproduce that first success.  I'll keep trying, to see if I can reproduce that same scenario, or determine what, if anything might significantly affect the numbers.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: gnurro on March 19, 2020, 11:46:19 am
Elves often have animal people because they don't care about the level of savagery at their settlement sites, what with them being all hippielike and 'at peace with nature'.
The dwarven civ that produced my wren bard had dozens of wren people in almost every settlement. Same world has hundreds of skink people as part of a half-desert human civ.
I've had elves with way too many different bird people.
I think there's a sweet spot with savagery distribution that lets world gen pump animal people out and not kill them off too soon - maybe dependent on biomes on top.
I'd like to think that the desert made the skink men integrate or rather become an important part of that desert human civilisation, but that may just be projecting too much into this...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on March 20, 2020, 06:16:18 pm
Topic: Please help me understand animal men and animal men civilizations !!SUCCESS!!  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161854.0) Is relevant to discussion.

My own take atm: Can't really be done in numbers I consider significant; if a fort of animalpeople is desired adv mode must be used. Otherwise, getting few in a world is doable with luck. Nr of people who join is tied to biome size they join from; largest has dozens join but as they're all non-historical they don't necessarily translate to visitors.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vnneetguy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:21 am
Hi! Thanks you all for these beatiful worlds.

-Edit-
I'm kindda new player, i have played 4 5 fortress. And the  problem is "fps drop dead". Can i have a world with all kind of things ( i want to experience them all) and stil have good fps?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: 1eb on April 07, 2020, 08:53:47 am
Anyone willing to post a save for a world with 500+ years' history? Prefer the most current release
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 07, 2020, 10:17:45 am
Here's a pocket world with a 1000 year history, 1eb.
Spoiler: 1kyr (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: jecowa on April 08, 2020, 04:48:07 am
Smaller world with a Longer history. It has a volcano in a temperate forest with shallow metals, deep metals, flux stone, and clay. All civs are alive and neighbors, but there is no necromancy in the world yet:

Spoiler: world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: armok vision render (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: world gen info (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Sr.Hikari on April 09, 2020, 09:22:07 am
Hi! I try to start a new world, but i really like playing in a Volcano world. What i ming with this?

I think in a arid world, with deserts, mountains, badlands, a lot of volcanos, A LOT of them.
No oceans, no rivers, no aquifers. Only underground water.

I tryed with "Design new world with advanced parameters" but the game didn't generated a world.
After I tryed with the program "Perfectworld" but I have the same problem, the game didn't generated a world.

Any can help me with the parameters for make my volcano world?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 09, 2020, 09:57:59 am
Here's one, Sr.Hikari, 16 volcanoes in a pocket world, no rain, no rivers, no oceans. Mountains, deserts & badlands.
Spoiler: volcanic (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Sr.Hikari on April 09, 2020, 11:03:03 am
Quote from: vjek on April 09, 2020, 09:57:59 am
Here's one, Sr.Hikari, 16 volcanoes in a pocket world, no rain, no rivers, no oceans. Mountains, deserts & badlands.
Spoiler: volcanic (click to show/hide)

Thanks! I will try to make this in a large world
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 10, 2020, 11:24:07 am
Quote from: Maltavius on April 10, 2020, 05:57:39 am
.Does anyone have a 4x4 embark for 0.47.04

That has:

  • Temperate
  • Trees / Fruit trees
  • Flux stones
  • River/Brook/Stream
  • Shallow and deep metals
  • Caves system
  • Magma
  • Goblins
  • Dwarves
  • Elfs
  • Humans
  • Necromancers

Here's one that matches:
Spoiler: maltavius1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Tinnucorch on April 13, 2020, 05:58:09 pm
I'm trying to generate a world with a long history but that retains balance and a nice distribution over the map the map between civs. So in order to make kobolds survive I edited the civ raws to cap all other civs (with the [MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:X] token) to single digits, while leaving kobolds to the default 100, and setting the number of civs (and caves) in worldgen to a very high amount to allow kobold civs to spawn in large numbers.

But it didn't work as expected. Checking with Legends Viewer shows that, apparently, the changes to the raws were completely disregarded. World has 34 kobold civs (19 of them alive, which is great after 1050 years of worldgen), 3 dwarf civs (but dwarves are limited by availiability of mountain ranges to spawn, so this is not relevant), 6 goblin civs (again, limited, this time by worldgen settings) BUT 15 elven ones (most of them dying though) and 20 human ones which have completely overrun the world, being around 80% of the world pop. Sure, there are a lot of kobolds around, but there is no the balance between civs population I was aiming for.

So, I'm missing something? Does not the token work like that? Any ideas or advice so I can achieve what I'm trying?

EDIT: Solved. It seems it was not a good idea to have the security copy of the raws in the same folder with the actual file.
I'll try to post some nice world settings once I'm satisfied with the results!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on April 14, 2020, 01:47:43 am
You can have the backup of your raw files in the same directory as long as you change their extensions. I typically name the backup the same as the original but use a ".org" extension (for "original", the 8.3 convention adherence is hard to break). DF doesn't seem to care about the name of the files, but reads only the .txt ones.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Opcero on April 22, 2020, 09:14:28 am
Has anyone tried to make the "wilderlands of high fantasy" map? 
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Legionaries on April 24, 2020, 10:25:20 pm
After some time away, I'm so happy to return and find you are still here helping people find/make excellent worlds!

I'll make no requests of you today - only leave a thank you.  You make this game even better.  Time to download the latest and pick one that you've already identified for someone else.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: ProbablyRed on April 29, 2020, 09:23:34 am
Does anybody know how to generate a medium-sized world that's an absolute necromancer and vampire hell, with a lot of evils biomes, very little civs but still enough that fortress mode can still be possible?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 29, 2020, 11:19:37 am
Here's a pocket world that meets some of those requirements.
Spoiler: NECROS_3T (click to show/hide)
You could adapt this technique to any sized world.  I've seen worlds with 8 or more towers, but after a few dozen, none with so many 1700+ animated per tower, in such a small area.
Essentially, you create a medium sized area for the dwarven civs to appear, and the rest are small.  Then you can control the evilness of all the small, and leave the medium as neutral.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: KassaK on May 11, 2020, 04:52:36 am
Hi,

I'm very bad for world gen, I tried many times to get what I want but with no success, so I need help ! :)

What I need :

- Pocket world
- All civs (dwarf human goblin elve) with a lot of goblins and elves
- Only small forest for elves, but a lot of wasteland (I dont like to embark with trees)
- Lots of !!FUN!! : evil, necro, beasts, titans, secrets, vampires etc....
- Only one cavern layer (dont know if its important for world gen)

Bonus :

- Pole North or South
- Extreme temperature
- At least one embark with a volcano

Thanks for help !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 11, 2020, 07:18:20 am
@KassaK: Why do you care about how much forest there is is the world? The only important biome thing for fortress mode is what it looks like where you embark (and to the NW, due to the air biome bug), so the rest of the world can act as a "resource pool" for other races (and elves are particularly bad at getting up to large numbers, and tend consistently to get low population sites). You typically want a number of potential embark sites, though (unless you're tailoring the world specifically using PSVs), so you need some of your preferred embark biome(s) to get some alternative sites.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: clinodev on May 11, 2020, 07:33:43 am
Do we know whether a complete seed (a fully identical parameter set) generates a geographically and historically identical world on all three 64 bit platforms in 0.47.04?

The wiki implies geography but not history "In the current version", but I figure if anyone is absolutely sure, they probably read this thread.

I'm working on a tutorial, so a universal seed would be handy!

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: KassaK on May 11, 2020, 08:28:18 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on May 11, 2020, 07:18:20 am
@KassaK: Why do you care about how much forest there is is the world? The only important biome thing for fortress mode is what it looks like where you embark (and to the NW, due to the air biome bug), so the rest of the world can act as a "resource pool" for other races (and elves are particularly bad at getting up to large numbers, and tend consistently to get low population sites). You typically want a number of potential embark sites, though (unless you're tailoring the world specifically using PSVs), so you need some of your preferred embark biome(s) to get some alternative sites.

Yes its because I want to have choices for embark on a place without forest (or without trees).
And I think if I want elves, I need at least a forest no ?

It's my problem : Elves + Not a lots of forest/trees
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 11, 2020, 10:05:05 am
I think this one matches, KassaK.
Spoiler: kassak1 (click to show/hide)
The challenge with this one is, unless you go full PSV, getting the right combination of races with >= 100 population, and no rejections, takes a few worldgens.
If you want only forests and rocky wasteland, that's possible, but excludes humans.  If you tune the world so it randomly makes fewer forests and/or more rocky wastelands, then getting elves is harder. 
It wouldn't be impossible, it would just take longer to get the PRNG to spit out the right combination.  It's likely that you could get a similar world with a few towers, too, if you wanted to spend the time.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: KassaK on May 11, 2020, 11:06:03 am
Thanks you, it's already much better than me :p

But it seems like elves are always a fallen civilization.

It's hard to have a lots of elves.

Bonus question 1 : I see in many world_gen these params : [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:0] and [WEREBEAST_ATTACK_TRIGGER:0:0:0].
0:0:0 is disabling totally titan_attack and werebeast attack ?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 11, 2020, 11:17:25 am
Quote from: clinodev on May 11, 2020, 07:33:43 am
Do we know whether a complete seed (a fully identical parameter set) generates a geographically and historically identical world on all three 64 bit platforms in 0.47.04?

The wiki implies geography but not history "In the current version", but I figure if anyone is absolutely sure, they probably read this thread.

I'm working on a tutorial, so a universal seed would be handy!

Thanks in advance!
It's known that getting rejections often did not generate the same in previous versions, and I've heard nothing to indicate that has changed. It's also know that there are cases (i.e. bugged ones) where you don't get the same world even without rejections, and some bugged cases where you don't get the same result if you use a freshly started DF compared to one that's already created one or more worlds. There's also an issue of 32 vs 64 bits (at least on Windows).
A set of seeds (and raws, of course) that do not result in rejections SHOULD generate exactly the same world on all versions/platforms, but it's known bugs exist. Toady has squashed such bugs from time to time, but there always seem to be new cases (there are also seed sets that cause crashes and some that cause non repeatable crashes).
Thus, if you're working on something important where you need to get the same result in all cases I'd recommend recruiting help to check seeds on the platforms you don't have available. I think an image of the world map and comparing that to what DF has generated ought to be enough to verify a set.

@KassaK: Yes, a trigger of 0 disables that trigger. In the case of weres, I suspect it won't disable visitors that turn in your tavern, though.

Elves and dwarves are often wiped out by gobbos and humans, and especially titans and megabeasts (apart from the bronze colossi, they shouldn't attack elves, but the certainly stomp out dwaven civs), in particularly before the civs have spread
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 11, 2020, 04:05:16 pm
Regarding worldgen differences between OS.
Here's a parameter set I used.  It generates without rejections.
Spoiler: 4civs_20200511 (click to show/hide)
Using that, I downloaded two fresh copies of DF 47.04, and using Windows 10 v1607 and Linux Mint 19.3, added that worldgen parameter to /data/init/worldgen.txt and generated the world.
They are not identical in every way, yet, some aspects and features are the same.

Spoiler: Win64 Results (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Linux64 Results (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 14, 2020, 07:43:47 am
This a bug or something leftover, no longer used? Why does Temp ranges go -1000 to 1000, when it only uses 0-100 in parameters. Is there something that might get generated at 101 to 1000 Temp, we are missing? Like a god of smeltings, super heated forge? Thanks.

Also, I am struggling with the crop map rejection, no idea what crops or how to fix this.  Happens when I go up from 10 Civ to 15 Civ on a Small Region. I desire 15, can only gen without crop rejects with 10. Thank you
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on May 14, 2020, 07:59:23 am
Setting temps out of 0-100 range does have an effect; here's a desert example (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168543.msg7986419#msg7986419).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 14, 2020, 08:14:41 am
For dwarven civs, change the min subterranean water to 15 to get enough to grow crops consistently.
As far as civ count goes, it varies based on the civ that you're trying to get.  But, presuming it's dwarven civs again, they need a very specific set of features before a civ will be placed.
In general, savagery, evil, and what is adjacent to the mountain biome are all the most common reasons for a lack of dwarven civs.
Put another way, if you make your world purely neutral (no good/evil), completely calm (no savagery), and have single embark-tile-size mountains/ranges surrounded by non-mountains, you can get a tremendous number of dwarven civs.

Regarding temperatures, you can have worlds with either or both -1000 or +1000, but at least in the past, there were some requirements regarding poles or no poles to get those extremes.  But certainly, you can have worlds that have so much cold damage that it kills everything/destroys everything in under a week, and so much heat damage that rivers are vaporized as they flow and the fat melts off of all creatures that have it in a few ticks.  In general, higher heat is more lethal than severe cold, but cold damage will destroy everything non-metal (including almost all organics).
Wandering/wild animals and bees/bugs/vermin also have different spawn ranges regarding temperature.  It's also important to note that what you get for in-game temperatures is not the same scale as what you define with in worldgen.  Degrees Urist is not the same as worldgen degrees, is what I mean by that.  From my notes -100 worldgen is ~9924'U, depending on a few factors, while -50 worldgen is ~9961'U.  On the plus side, 300 worldgen ends up with ~10223'U on the embark.
I'm sure there's a conversion formula (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Temperature).. yep.
EDIT:
Also, here's a worldgen that creates 100 dwarven civs in a pocket world, as an example:
Spoiler: many-dorfcivs (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 14, 2020, 11:55:11 am
There are at least two factors affecting PSV temperatures, namely latitude and elevation. The latitude effect is disabled when there are no latitudes (i.e. no poles), while the temperature decreases as the elevation increases. Past comments by vjek indicate that there is some limiting temperature effects in effect in worlds with poles that are worked around by using worlds without poles (e.g. used for vjek's scorching/freezing hell embarks).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 14, 2020, 10:33:14 pm
Thank you for your help and answers. Woah you have me beat in RESEARCH.

Upping min cavern water permitted my +5 leep up in all Civs, reporting no rejects in Sm Region with 15 Civ, got to 30 before rejecting, but 15 will do. Some nobility even produce heirs, this is good for intrigue. Surface drama in history rolls out to 992. Lowered the megabeasts, aswell, to keep them alive. But I really enjoy semimegas, this is a hard compromise, its still a high figure, some pair off.  Shaved off the y axis drainage, only and put in a N pole. Worlds are looking more and more habital yet able to trade, a desired goal. 1000 erosion cycle ruins peaks, but makes many flatish embark sites. Lotsa flatish embark sites is a must have with addition of surface trees roots.

update

The reduction of demon types, helped curb the goblin spread and takeover, in 990 yr history. These new creature raws for goblins look tweaked. Their max abilities in some abilities looks superdwarfy. Curious if thats as designed, or just a frivolous rebalancing fix.

Going with this last sm region, I think. Drainage is off, but with erosion cap'd I am happy without oceans and lakes, I guess the humans will be okay. Water and ice always seemed like a wasteful use of a possible embark space. Temperatures and elevation are right, much kudos and thanks to the posters and research done in this thread. Carrying over min/max meshing in volcanism from old world gens from '17, makes for nice surprising discoveries under the surface. The only problem, I have, just like in '17 is with the new stuff. Well new back then, to me, these days vampies and wrrewolves not new.

Not a fan of reassigning new nobles to their habitats each fullmoon. Capt of grd, especially, have no idea how his death hurts his inmates. dfHack makes this simpler, but then I start using imore cheats as a crutch. Also, the stress ontop of the cloak and dagger vampire killings in bunkrooms, just not happening. Shaved curses back to 1. Defaults 22 or 11, which makes no good sense to me. In my eyes, a legendary pet trainer, aughta be able to control a were vermin type. Not a bear or wolf, but these werehamsters, scaring CIVs with picks? A dorf should be able to squash a werehamster with nearest object, using untrained Object Use or Throw item.

Ill try and share some pics and embark stats.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 19, 2020, 02:36:34 pm
Performed a little cavern science today, and discovered the following:
worldgen for context..
Spoiler: odd caverns (click to show/hide)
Most people are familiar with what occurs normally or naturally in the caverns.  There are generally pools of water, fungus trees, and shrubs of varying kinds, with the crops required by a dwarven civ (like pigtails, plump helmets, quarry bushes, and similar).
How to get those is pretty straightforward, set your cavern water to a reasonably high value, you get the crops you need, all good.
From time to time, however, you'll find a cavern that has 0-9 water in it, and there are no shrubs.  Some people call these "Dry Caverns".  The wiki says "Any cavern layer without a pool of water will have only muddy dense floor fungus, and no plants or trees except blood thorns."
Yet, there are two extra types, that aren't that well documented.

The "no fungus trees, but shrubs" and "no trees, no shrubs, brown hell" variants.
Today, using the worldgen above, I managed to find examples of these and posit a theory as to the scenarios that lead to their creation.
It seems like any time there is a wet/dry underground region adjacency, there is a chance one of these two variants can be created.
At the edges of each underground biome (on the pre-embark map) where they meet, you can get one of these:
No Trees, No Shrubs, Embark location (https://i.postimg.cc/Qt3jgQYy/caverns-no-trees-no-shrubs-embark1.png)
No Trees, No Shrubs, Underground Screenshot (https://i.postimg.cc/CLVbZX4G/caverns-no-trees-no-shrubs-screenshot.png)
No Trees, Yes Shrubs, Embark location (https://i.postimg.cc/4dQsWYrN/caverns-no-trees-yes-shrubs-embark2.png)
No Trees, Yes Shrubs, Underground Screenshot (https://i.postimg.cc/VLBnXg73/caverns-no-trees-yes-shrubs-screenshot.png)
So, if you ever wanted to create a challenge embark with nothing in the caverns, or something very specific, with respect to trees, shrubs, or the lack of either or both, now you can.  8)

Thanks to PatrikLundell who pointed me in the right direction to gather this information..
Spoiler: underground_region_data (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 19, 2020, 05:59:45 pm
The wiki is wrong if you interpret it to mean embark. If you interpret it to mean a whole underground region it's probably correct. If you set your water world gen parameters reasonably low it's not unusual to get normal caverns without any source of water in them.

The "no trees, but shrubs" variant ought to appear occasionally, in particular for the first cavern, as there's normally a percentage chance for any particular valid plant/creature to be present at a region, and there are only two valid trees for the first cavern. You'll see this random tree presence particularly often with Nether-Cap, as it's often absent. I'd assume it has a lower probability than the other trees to appear. I've also seen cases of one of the various underground crops missing.

There have also been cases where it appears caverns have been completely muddy, with no floor fungi and no spores released when breached.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 20, 2020, 05:07:23 pm
Some high volume candy embarks.
I haven't seen a spire extend to the second cavern (only to the top of the third) in a long while.  That being the case, this worldgen only maxxes out layers 4 and 5.
The last one (the 4x3) has over 200Z of a solid candy spire, among several.  41k total, in all spires for that one embark.
Spoiler: some candy embarks (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 20, 2020, 06:53:13 pm
1,2,3, I always thought were caverns. 4, Magma, 5, Hell. Not sure, much about Hell, as I usually reroll forts, at about the time it comes to exploring Hell. Is it even safe down there for miners to mine candy, under magma layers, ya know, in Hell?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 20, 2020, 06:58:50 pm
"Above Layer 5" is the depth of the SMR sea, where the bulk of adamantine spires are found, regardless of caverns.
Technically, there is no candy in the circus.  It always stops exactly one Z level above it. 
Just to be clear, above, when referring to Layers 4 & 5, I mean the lines in the worldgen parameters with the text "Above Layer 4" and "Above Layer 5".
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 20, 2020, 07:27:54 pm
yup, same lines in worldgen, 1-5. Ive gotten some deep z-levels, down there, with it set to single digit depths. Hard to predict underground.

Would Drycaverns have Cave Toads and Cave Crocs? Those water breaks along the edge, seem to attract swimmers, Orms like um. But not sure if a water break is mandatory. A Bat only visiting cavern would be nice.

Good research. TY
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 21, 2020, 02:22:56 am
Muddy caverns have a limited selection of wildlife, while both toads and crocs appear in ordinary caverns that just haven't got any local sources of water.

I agree it's best to clarify references as "above layer", to avoid confusion.

If you're set on having bats as the only wildlife in a cavern you probably have to hack the population, e.g. with the Biome Manipulator http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.msg7495705#msg7495705 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.msg7495705#msg7495705), as searching for natural cases of it will likely take far more time than you've got.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: thefinn on May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 21, 2020, 07:29:44 am
Quote from: thefinn on May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
It seems you get more Z levels in uneven terrain, and possibly even more at high elevations. The advance world gen way is to increase the distance between layers to get more Z levels between them. I set the number of levels above the first cavern to 15, for instance, to get some nice space for a fortress.

The LNP doesn't affect world gen, but elves are generally weak when it comes to hostile neighbors, and probably titans (they ought to be ignored by the animal/organic megabeasts, but I don't know if that's the case). Elves only spawn and settle in forests (except when conquering settlements), so you need to make sure your world gen parameters allows for forests. They you have to select your embark to be in range of the races you want as neighbors (shown pre embark by using TAB to switch what's displayed: it hides kobolds, though).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 21, 2020, 08:53:09 am
Quote from: thefinn on May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
Two ways that I know of.  Utilizing terrain above the embark level, and manually specifying the Z-Levels in the "Above Layer" settings.
Above Ground gives you more 'air' above the embark.  Doesn't have any significance other than tree height, if you embark with trees.
The rest affect how thick the world is (like a cake or pancake). If you are looking for more Z-Levels between the embark layer and the top of the magma, increase all the values of "Z Levels Above Layer 1" through "Z Levels Above Layer 4" to whatever value you want.  Change them all to 100, and voila, you should see ~400 Z-levels from Embark to Magma.
Example world:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the south edge, embark depth is ~490.  Yet, if you choose an embark where the mountains meet the plains in the north, embarks are ~520 deep.
Pushing this idea further.. we can get an embark that is ~550 with a mountain peak to a plain..
Spoiler: thicker world (click to show/hide)
top of the 'air': 295
first layer of material/stone in the tallest spire: 280
embark layer: 149 (that's a 131 Z spire, above the embark layer, in the open air above ground)
top of the first cavern layer: 40
top of the second cavern layer: -64
top of the third cavern layer: -168
top of magma layer: -272
Total embark depth from highest outdoor/outside stone to magma: 552 (280 to -272)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: thefinn on May 22, 2020, 01:47:43 am
Nice, thanks for the replies.

I fixed this with the levels spacer entries. I had thought this was just to do with caverns. Didn't realise it was for different stone types.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on May 24, 2020, 10:30:08 pm
@vjek Well that's a new one

It seems the geography matches, but history differs on my lubuntu gen.

That deep pit having mud-covered treetops is pretty neat as well.

And yeah, that's not really 2nd cavern spire but aallmost there.

Theoretically, one might want to use a world with poles so they can use ice to grind away at the SMR. It seems adding one changes candy spire locations, however.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 25, 2020, 04:59:45 pm
Came across something today I haven't seen before, and wanted to check with everyone else to see if they've seen it.
Single cavern layer world.
Water in the caverns.  A lot of water.
Volcano on the embark.
Candy spire that reaches to 4Z above the top of the cavern.
As in, the candy spire starts in the SMR sea, extends up through the magma, through the first and only cavern, then keeps going another 4Z in normal stone layers.

Have you seen this before?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on May 26, 2020, 12:26:21 am
No, never. In fact, I thought single-cavern worlds spires were limited to ending right above magma sea, with other ones culled due bug.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 26, 2020, 12:57:27 am
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 26, 2020, 12:26:21 am
No, never. In fact, I thought single-cavern worlds spires were limited to ending right above magma sea, with other ones culled due bug.
No, spires that reach the single cavern in single cavern worlds are very rare because of the bug: they only appear if they are specified to reach the first cavern which is very rare.

Extending past the designated top cavern is rare: I'm not sure if I've seen it or not.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 26, 2020, 10:29:10 am
Ok, if you're inclined, this should show that happening, at Z: -1 .
Spoiler: 1cav-candy-4z-above (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 26, 2020, 01:49:27 pm
I never saw candy in top layer or above. Worldgen must pick that one cavern, to give the player, from the three possible caverns to use, at random, then. Got 3rd one there, congrats.

You guys are positive, layers above cavern, is z'-levels above uppermost open cavern spaces, and lowermost of next? Or is it the layers "of" cavern, above bottom-most open cavern z-level, to top of that caverns possible open space, based on cave density and corridor clutter settings. I am just curious, as sometimes, Ill get HUGE spreads between caverns without changing a parameter.

This joyous, anti-stress(all civ brainwashed ideal) embark in my perfectworld embark, has two unique underground elements. A 20x20 roughly pit between cavern 1 and cavern 2. A large rat lair below cavern 2 into a reclusive, shutoff by treetrunks, cavern 3 corner, with a large active edge gap feeding nastys into the caves. Not sure what to do with cave with rat, its now producing gremlins. Put my back door leading into fort from topside, across pit, with a 3 exit goblin grinder. Lost two miners building it, afraid I set pressure plates to civ.

The nincompoop miners down in cavern 3 keep generating cave-ins. Unlike when digging in 1.

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 27, 2020, 02:08:21 am
Yes, the "above layer" parameters indicate to DF how much space there should be in between the top of one "layer" (overloaded term, unfortunately), and then next one. For some reason leaving them at the default seems to result in a much larger spread than setting them to something else, but that's just my impression, not something that's been investigated rigorously.

It can be noted that the parameters operate on a world tile basis, so if your embark spans areas that are governed by different world tiles you can get huge differences in height, and terrain varying much in height also seems to play games with both the vertical extent of caverns and the distance between them.

Losing miners to cave-ins is usually caused by the overseer not being sufficiently careful with the orders given. In particular, a very precise dig order to avoid accidents can only be upheld if there is only a single miner doing the job (disabling mining on others, or using burrows to keep the others from that area), as the order in which orders are accepted isn't the same as the order in which they are performed, due to travel time and job abandonment due to harvesting (there is also a rare priority inversion bug that can cause a dorf standing on a prio 1 tile that's adjacent to a prio 2 tile to dig out the prio 2 tile without moving, rather than move to dig out the prio 1 tile first, then move again).

Edit: vjek's embark shows that what I thought I knew about spires wasn't (fully?) correct. This spire is specified to reach cavern 3 rather than 1, and shouldn't appear at all according to what I thought I knew.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 27, 2020, 11:18:55 am
It was certainly a surprise to me, as well.  I'm not sure the reason or cause, but my first thought was... if we could find a place like that and stretch the caverns (in the past I think it was figured out how to stretch caverns to 'absurdly tall') then... well.. there's some potential.  :o 8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 27, 2020, 11:52:55 am
Quote from: vjek on May 27, 2020, 11:18:55 am
It was certainly a surprise to me, as well.  I'm not sure the reason or cause, but my first thought was... if we could find a place like that and stretch the caverns (in the past I think it was figured out how to stretch caverns to 'absurdly tall') then... well.. there's some potential.  :o 8)
I don't see why you can't just go with what's well known, i.e. levels above layer. If a spire reaches any cavern at all, extending the layers below that cavern extends the spire, so with a standard 3 cavern world and a spire reaching cavern 1 (can be done with hacking), extending any or all the distances in between the magma sea and the first cavern gives you a huge amount of spire to munch on. I guess you can also try to warp the world so the caverns themselves are 50 levels high, but that means it's a pain to secure those caverns by walling the edges off.

The extension above the top cavern is curious from a mechanics perspective, but not particularly significant from a game play one, I think.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 28, 2020, 01:20:01 am
Whelp, there is that. My elongated 129x65 world, shows me no Points of Interest, out beyond 65. in c worldview. The caves are there to explore, even the civs icons, but no tile outline, to consult on the legend. So no places to raid, cept friendlies, nearby. Cannot send messenger out to fleshout their race and alignment. Oddly, way over there is where the evil region and goblins setup. I maybe playing a really boring perfectworld, if goblins cannot reach my fort. I got a tower, elves, humans, and slinkers. Is this how 257 large worldgens are? My system cannot do those out to mature dragon years, 1000+.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on May 31, 2020, 10:01:38 am
Is it possible to generate a world where the chances of the circus coming to town is at its maximum possible chance? Do you need to set the history to a long time and add a bunch of mountains (so dwarves generate more)? Is it possible to make sure only dwarves generate on the map?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 31, 2020, 10:31:42 am
Quote from: UselessMcMiner on May 31, 2020, 10:01:38 am
Is it possible to generate a world where the chances of the circus coming to town is at its maximum possible chance? Do you need to set the history to a long time and add a bunch of mountains (so dwarves generate more)? Is it possible to make sure only dwarves generate on the map?
You can certainly make a dwarf-only map.  Just ensure there is only 0-9 rain, and use 299-301 elevation, and set demon count to one.
If you have demon count at 2+, you'll get goblins, but at 1, you won't.  Elves and/or Humans need rain to be 10+.
Then you can set your number of civs to however many dwarven civs you want.
Note that the consequence of a demon count of 1 is that the material the first demons are made out of is hardcoded to not be butcherable.  They'll be made of salt, snow, fire, brine, sleet, or some other similarly annoying material. :)  As far as I've seen, there is no way around this and no conditions will alter it.
There are also ways to have worlds that use savagery and evil to prevent human/elf civ placement, so if you want to go that route, let me know.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on May 31, 2020, 11:18:59 am
In an ideal worldgen with all 5 types, # of civ, the # the player sets should be divisible by 5. The civs will always spread out 1 hu, 1 go, 1dw, 1 ko, 1 ef, and then 10, for 2,2,2,2,2. When less conditions like vjek mentioned are met, I suppose divisible by 4, 3, 2 etc. should be picked.

Kobolds req Mtn or Nonmtn caves. You'll wanna null caves to get rid of Kobolds. Not sure how this effects outlaw dwarfs and crime/justice, as they setup shop in those places, too.

The problem with dorf only worlds is then you lose the foreign food, armor & wpn features. No daggers, no blowguns,  no masks, no tree drama and exotic pet trade, no human seafood and longshank monster slayers, etc. Foreign items, like, facemasks, thongs/loincloths(legs and feet are optional), and high molar mass whips are, or were very powerful and game breaking. Dunno, now. This may no longer be true, as of musical instrument patch, which seemed to shuffle foreign and normal recipes about some.

Very long histories cease to be relavent after 1000yrs of titans, for me. After titans are gone, world historic figures blossom from those 5 types. Also you'll get lots more multi 'named' mega, semimegabeasts, and savage(giant variants). Dont overlook that giant fly, he is a giant's Giant. Ever pull up his raws? Holy cow.

Which, lotsa semi's is something the hardcore(no cheaters)seem to enjoy, in their worlgens, as semimegabeasts, unlike their big cuz fullmegas and titans, can be trapped and bread in captivity for truly awful things. Like a Rancor pen, in Star Wars, but with Rancor breeding. Imagine your own maze/moat, with a family of high strength and disease retardent Minotaurs to unleash on the an uninvited guest, pathing in from embark edge. When they turn back on you, there is your field of metal traps to protect you.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on May 31, 2020, 01:38:50 pm
So I tried to make a world following Vjek's instructions, but instead of anything happening, a horde of goblins randomly appeared and killed everyone? They weren't lead by a demon so I'm confused. Is it because theres only one species of demon alive and it isnt intelligent?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 31, 2020, 01:50:11 pm
Post your worldgen, UselessMcMiner, and we'll see where things are.  :D
EDIT: Here's an example world with 1 type of demon, and 100 dwarven civs.
If you change the demon types to 2, you'll see some Goblin civs appear.
Spoiler: no-gobbos (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on May 31, 2020, 06:48:28 pm
Code: [Select]
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:DWARF HELL WORLD]
[DIM:129:129]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:1050]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:299:301:1600:1600]
[RAINFALL:0:0:200:200]
[TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:4:2:0:1:0:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[POLE:NORTH_AND_OR_SOUTH]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:18]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:37]
[TITAN_NUMBER:9]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:1]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
[NIGHTMARE_NUMBER:14]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14]
[WEREBEAST_ATTACK_TRIGGER:50:5000:50000]
[SECRET_NUMBER:0]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[ALLOW_DIVINATION:1]
[ALLOW_DEMONIC_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_EXPERIMENTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_LIEUTENANTS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_GHOULS:1]
[ALLOW_NECROMANCER_SUMMONS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:6:63:0]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:6:63:0]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:3]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:4]
[VOLCANO_MIN:1]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:66:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:66:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:264:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:528:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:528:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:16:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:33:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:528:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:528:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
[RIVER_MINS:25:25]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:15]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:24]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:1040]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:8000:1056:528]
[RAIN_RANGES:528:1056:528]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:528:1056:528]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:528:1056:528]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:528:1056:528]
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 01, 2020, 10:08:23 am
For me, in vanilla DF, that world doesn't generate without rejections, and eventually stops generating due to lack of peaks. 
But it's possible, I suppose, that something other than a demon is leading (in whatever random world eventually might generate) that goblin civ, given all the nasties in the world.
Try this worldgen below, UselessMcMiner, and let me know if it works for you.  It should meet your goal of just dwarven civs and then you can try various other choices to determine if you can influence HFS breaching.
It creates two dwarven civs, with 1 demon type.  If you increase the number of demons to 2, you'll get one dwarven civ and one goblin civ.  Otherwise, it should generate worlds without rejections ~100% of the time.
Spoiler: no-gobbos-2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 01, 2020, 04:15:52 pm
Here's something I haven't seen before.
Dead dwarven civ.  Verified after embark, empty civ screen.
Only a single goblin and single Dwarven civ have ever been in the world, as far as I can tell.  Seven total sites in the world.
Upon embark, prior to the end of the embark month (by default, Granite 15 is embark day), three goblins will visit the fort, if you create a tavern immediately after embarking.
So, here's the example..
  Pick an embark site (I checked several 2x2's in various rocky wastelands).  I used "Play Now!" for the profile.
  Create a zone on the surface (I use max size, but smaller works too), make it a meeting area, assign a location, and make it a Tavern/Inn.
  After one day has passed (sometimes two days), so Granite 15,16,17, three goblin visitors will be in the Tavern area.  8)  Typically a Poet, Bard, and/or Dancer.  But sometimes a Goblin Thief, instead.
Spoiler: gobvis6 (click to show/hide)
Note that this does NOT appear to work with entirely Sinister embarks/biomes, in this world.  Visitors simply will not show up.
Everywhere else (calm/non-sinister) seems to be fine, though, and mixed biome (some sinister, some not) embarks also work fine. 
You can even create the Tavern/Inn zone in the sinister part of the mixed-biome embark, and it still works.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on June 01, 2020, 07:44:46 pm
Please explain elevation frequency Mesh and its 5 part ratio?
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:0:0:1]
when,
[ELEVATION:299:301:400:400]

The mesh fails in 1-80 and 320-400 elevations, where it calls for 1s
In 299-301, it calls for zeros which nulls the 2x2 mesh, yielding a static unmeshed 400 by 400 spline.
Anotherwords, same worldgen results would occur, with these settings, but worldgen would churn its kettle less,
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:0:0:0:0:0]

I wanna say this is the goal you are seeking,
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:0:5000:5000:0:0]

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: pisskop on June 02, 2020, 12:25:11 am
I mostly just wanted to /ego this, but I can contribute some small to medium worlds.  I generate worlds fairly often, so it helps to have small maps that I can produce quickly.  Its also nice to have real frames for intensive work.

Spoiler: 129x65 wide continent (click to show/hide)
I am super happy with this gen.  It reliably generates worlds I consider balanced and interesting.

Spoiler: 257x65 super wide (click to show/hide)
Happy with this one too, but I cant help but feel like its too wide without being tall enough to generate quality worlds.  Still happy though.

Spoiler: 129x129 (click to show/hide)
This one needs some tlc, but it can and does generate what I want.  What I want from this larger map is different than the other two; thats part of my issue with it.  As a square map I want more depth to my mountains, and its harder to balance the forests swamps.  And the mountains themselves are harder to mold.

The world Im currently using is the 129x129 one.  In it all of my 'savage' civilizations are generating north of the mountains, leaving elf, human, and dwarf below it.  I have 2 civs Ive added that, along with the goblins, occupy most of the space north of the mountains.  Its thematically cool, and makes me want to play.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on June 03, 2020, 07:35:21 pm
For some reason that world gen still doesn't make clowns appear eventually, even after running the world for 5000 years with 15 civilizations the circus never arrives.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 03, 2020, 11:05:30 pm
Ok, so what indication are you looking for (in what file or memory variable) that indicates that goal?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: pisskop on June 03, 2020, 11:13:21 pm
Sounds like he wants to use the new 'underworld mining disaster' tag.

wherein a dwarf civ (the only one who can do it at this point) accidentally unleashes hell during worldgen.  I dont know much about what actually increases the odds of worldgen forts falling to demons, other than the tag itself.


Most likely several prosperous dwarven civs.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on June 04, 2020, 04:52:06 pm
Do they have to be prosperous? Or can they just have one site?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 04, 2020, 05:34:23 pm
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but..
This worldgen, if you export the legends, has a breach event, and a DEMON_ attacking a dwarf. (around event id's 2246 - 2255)
Spoiler: breach1? (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UselessMcMiner on June 04, 2020, 06:50:03 pm
I think the issue is with generating only one type of clown, It seems that not having any intelligent species of demon causes a horde of goblins to appear, and not any clowns, so thats lame.


EDIT: Checking, so the goblins do have demons in the world where a bunch of goblins appeared out of nowhere, so are they only lead by a demon if there is an intelligent species of demon?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 04, 2020, 08:01:33 pm
There's no dark fortress, so there's no goblin civ in the classic/normal sense.
It seems like they took over one of the existing dwarven fortresses after the breach. 
203 goblins and 50 spirits of fire as residents, but no civ name.

779 creature_id: DEMON_1 name is: spirit of fire
[TISSUE_MAT_STATE:GAS]
[NOT_BUTCHERABLE]
[DESCRIPTION:A great tarantula composed of flame.  It has a pair of spindly antennae and it has a bloated body.  Beware its poisonous bite!]

Feel free to research further and post your results.  At least you have a breach to study.  :o
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on June 06, 2020, 09:35:15 pm
@vjek, have ya tried a long history with an extreme volcanism setting, to tilt worlgen towards generating that breach, as circus is reached via magma and its candy tubes, usually? Volcanism frequency may play a very crucial factor. Something along the lines of all volcanism and none. [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:5000:0:0:0:5000]
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 07, 2020, 01:02:54 am
Quote from: knutor on June 06, 2020, 09:35:15 pm
@vjek, have ya tried a long history with an extreme volcanism setting, to tilt worlgen towards generating that breach, as circus is reached via magma and its candy tubes, usually? Volcanism frequency may play a very crucial factor. Something along the lines of all volcanism and none. [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:5000:0:0:0:5000]
I fail to see any connection between volcanism and breaches. I pre history world gen DF places goblin civs without any known connection to volcanism, while during history they're released when dwarven civs decide to dig too greedily. The only connection between the underworld and the rest of the world is through candy spires. These spires pierce the SMR and always go through the magma sea, which allows dorfs to process them carelessly. The presence of a volcano or magma tube is mutually exclusive with the presence of a spire in a Mid Level Tile (the spire gets shifted to a different MLT).
Sure, clowns can move from a breach to magma forges and swim up through a volcano to the surface, but they can just as well take the stairs/ramps the dorfs made when making the breach.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on June 09, 2020, 12:27:41 am
And the magma sea, need not be in the cellar. If magma was not forced onto the bottom z-levels, in worldgen, and volcanism set to extremes, the ramps up/down, within candy spires would be stretched/condensed, considerably more, providing for far thinner puncture points, or far greater, but those thick puncture points can be discarded. For breaching, thin is desired, near surface candy is desired, the more surface candy near the surface, the greater chance of a breach event as history unravels.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 09, 2020, 01:55:21 am
The way DF works currently is that the SMR separates the underworld from the magma sea, which sits below all of the cavern layers. Worldgen parameters can't shuffle the layers around. The hollow core of spires have a set dimension and follows a specific set of rules that are unaffected by whether the distance between features is changed. There's no fixed volume to spires: they're extended as needed to reach the generated destination.
It's probable there's a greater chance/risk of a breach the higher up a spire extends, but the longer the spires are, the more rare they become. If someone was interested, it would be possible to generate a lot of worlds and examine each breach to determine how long the spires that were breached are, but you'd need a lot of samples to get any useful statistics out of it, so it's likely to be a lengthy task. While it shouldn't be too hard to generate a script to identify the breaching sites (find late generated goblin civs and their "founding" sites), determining the exact spire that was breached will probably require generation of the site (adventurer or embark anywhere) followed by a manual examination (it might work to look for "unknown material").
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Rusty_knight on June 10, 2020, 12:22:12 am
Don't know if this was already answered, but is there any way to make caverns less vertically "stretched"?
Because in most worlds I get map around ~90 Z levels deep with cavern layers occupying ~12-18 Z-levels per cavern and I suspect it slows down worldgen and contributes to fps death later...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 10, 2020, 01:20:28 am
Cavern layer size most likely have no effect at all on world gen as they don't exist at that time, beyond some basic parameters. Caverns are generated only when the world tile (and possibly its neighboring tiles) is visited by an adventurer, or when embarking. A large embark (in volume) may contribute to FPS death to some extent, but I don't think the vertical component has that much of an effect in itself (extensive mining, etc. affects the FPS).

Flat terrain tends to result in shallow embarks, and steep terrain in particular tends to result in vertically extended caverns.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 10, 2020, 09:55:53 am
Quote from: Rusty_knight on June 10, 2020, 12:22:12 am
Don't know if this was already answered, but is there any way to make caverns less vertically "stretched"?
In general, I've found the following to be true in this context.. Use one cavern.  Have a perfectly flat embark.  Have no oceans.  Have a very small disparity between the highest and lowest world tile altitude/height.  By doing that,  you'll end up with the thinnest 'vanilla' embarks.
It should be noted though, by changing one line in the raws, you can have soil->magma in as little as 6 Z levels (with zero caverns), if that's desired.  :o 
Not saying you should, just be aware that it's trivially easy to accomplish that goal.

As far as a thin world goes..
Spoiler: thin-pancake (click to show/hide)
If you gen that world, and embark in the most southeast tile of the most southeast region, the embark depth (with prospect prior to embark) shows as 22 deep.
In detail, after embark, it goes like this: (149 - 127 = 22)
149: Embark
138-134: Single Cavern
132: First possible natural magma forge location
131-127: magma

From embark to forges is exactly 17 Z levels.  That's pretty thin.  8) 
If you embark with a surface volcano, there are definitely situations where the dwarves would have to walk more than 17 steps across the surface from the wagon to the volcano.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on June 10, 2020, 12:22:24 pm
@PL, Thank you. I had always thought volcanism, played a factor in magma. Now I see, DF things in a new light.

@vjek, that thin worldgen. Did you ever reroll it, with rejects, for the lowest possible subregion count? I see its set 5000, the upper limit. Less subregions, maybe increases thin-ness of overall embarks, in the event that you or another player decided to try another alternative biome to embark upon.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Rusty_knight on June 10, 2020, 12:41:36 pm
I've also noticed another thing in 0.47.04, perhaps a bug: I have almost no ore deposits but tons of gem clusters where applicable (most evident in igneous intrusive layers) and ore variety in general is worse than before (0.34-0.40 if i remember right).
Is this a known problem or something is wrong with my DF?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 10, 2020, 11:08:02 pm
I think in general, Rusty_knight, that's due to the Mineral Scarcity dropping to 100 from whatever higher value used to be the lowest default.
This has the consequence of more of a "everything is everywhere" feeling, with respect to gems and ores.
You can certainly change it to 100000 or any value in between and get whatever scarcity you desire.
As an example, this is a similar thin world (27 vs. 22 embark depth) with seven Z-Levels containing: dolomite (55k), coal (5k+), and limonite (1.8k) in a 2x2, and a mineral scarcity setting of 100000.
Spoiler: thin-sf (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 12, 2020, 11:42:55 am
I just encountered a lake in a muddy cavern, which I didn't think was possible. I did check that it wasn't a matter of it being in a different biome (I've had caverns split between muddy and normal before), but the biome extends a fair bit into the mud, and I haven't found any moss growing underneath the mud anywhere I looked. Spores weren't released until I breached the second cavern.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 13, 2020, 08:57:47 am
So that means it's possible to have a 'wet' cavern with no moss, no shrubs, and no trees.  Nice find. :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 13, 2020, 09:37:31 am
Yes, although when looking at it now there is moss, while there was none originally, so breaching the "live" cavern apparently released moss spores to the other caverns.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PopTart on June 17, 2020, 03:16:10 am
I'm using an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz. I'm 45 minutes into generating your medium-sized world, and it's on year 501. How on earth did your machine do 1050 years in 38 minutes??

EDIT: 180 minutes for the full 1050-year history


Quote from: jecowa on February 16, 2020, 02:51:24 pm
I found some seeds that don't crash after 1050 years (very long history). Times reported are from a Zen 2 desktop.

Small world, Very Long history (15 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Small world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Small world seed (click to show/hide)

Medium world, Very Long history (38 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Medium world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Medium world seed (click to show/hide)

Large world, Very Long history (1 hour, 35 minutes to generate)
Spoiler: Large world map (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Large world seed (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 17, 2020, 11:45:28 am
What you can do to speed up worldgen..

Population Cap After Civ Creation: 5k-10k
Site Cap after Civ Creation: 3-10
Cull Unimportant Historical Figures: Yes
Reveal All Historical Events: No

Changing those to "No Cap", "No Cap", "No", and "Yes", respectively, can dramatically increase worldgen time, with (depending on your goals) difficult-to-justify benefits.

For many of my testing worlds, I set the Popcap after Civ Creation and Site cap both to zero, because it's not relevant to what I'm testing.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on June 27, 2020, 06:09:34 pm
My new 65x65 Perfectworld took 48hrs of dueling sleepmode to roll history out to 1010. Four million Age of Myth events. 4000+ embark tiles with 4 neighbors. vjen's full range of Temperatures. A truckload of semimegabeasts to exploit trap. 3 cracks into hell. This is part of it...
Code: [Select]
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:Spindle Kings the Worldmakers v1337]
[DIM:65:65]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:1010]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:10:50]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
[ELEVATION:80:340:400:400]
[RAINFALL:10:90:100:100]
[TEMPERATURE:-103:267:200:200]
[DRAINAGE:30:70:1600:1600]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
[SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:0:2500:5000:2500:0]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:250:5500:3000:1000:250]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:0:1000:8000:1000:0]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:600:1337:6126:1337:600]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1500:2000:3000:2000:1500]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:4:5000:0:0:0:5000]
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:1250]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:24]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:4800]
[TITAN_NUMBER:8]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:120:100000:500000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:2]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:1]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:1]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:1]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:5]
[SECRET_NUMBER:25]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:25]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:25]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:1]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:5]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:30:3:1]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:60:6:2]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:0]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:1000]
[RIVER_MINS:0:0]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2400]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:99]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:66]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:33]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:99]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:10]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:3]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:5]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:5]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:10]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:50]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:15]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:45]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:0]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:15]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:100000]
[SITE_CAP:250]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: JCsuper on June 28, 2020, 09:48:54 am
If I wanted to have an embark with just one cavern, which is as deep as cavern #3 normally is, what would that look like in advanced world gen?

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on June 28, 2020, 10:19:06 am
'normally' is hard to quantify, but I'll give you an answer in the context of a very thin embark.

If you only have one cavern, it will place it just above the highest point of magma.  If you don't add any extra separation layers manually, it will be separated by 1-3 layers.
That means, from top to bottom (excluding trees) it will proceed as: the embark layer, then soil layers, then some stone, then the top of the cavern, the cavern, the bottom of the cavern, then at least 1-3 stone layers, then magma layers, then the SMR sea.
Caverns are typically 5 layers thick, inclusive, on a flat embark.

Ultimately, how many layers you want between the soil and the top of the cavern is entirely up to you.  "Z Levels Above Layer 1" can be as few as 5, or as many as 100+ stone layers.
if you had three caverns, and each took 5+1, as a minimum including the gap, then you would have 5, +6, +6, then the top of the third cavern.  Call it an even 20 as a round number, even though strictly speaking, it could be as little as 17.

This worldgen below has embarks in the southeast edge/corner starting at 149, one soil level 148, then from 147-128 is stone, then the cavern starts at 127, ends at 123 (5, inclusive), then magma starts at 119.
In this case the value of '20' is the 147-128 (inclusive).  In other words, change that value "Z Levels Above Layer 1" to whatever you want to simulate the thickness of the other two caverns, and you're set.
Spoiler: 1cav-20 (click to show/hide)
I will note that this world is simply for demonstration purposes. 
There aren't any enemies outside of the caverns or aggressive wildlife, and there's only 1 civ.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on June 28, 2020, 11:19:07 am
vjek provide the math, but you're probably better off thinking about how much room you want for your fortress plus whatever resources you hope to dig out. Caverns are largely empty space (from an ore/gem/stone perspective), and so provide much less resources than a solid layer, and is much trickier to use for digging out a fortress (settling in a cavern is perfectly doable, though).

I set "Z Levels Above Layer 1" to 15, which usually provides a decent amount of room for a fortress of the modest sizes I typically make. "Typically" because you occasionally get aquifer rock, which cuts down on the easily usable levels, and that can stretch down into the first cavern if you're unlucky). Also note that I don't expect to find any ores (very poor worlds), so that's not a consideration for me.

Thus: Soil, typically 4 levels, aquifer leaking from the 4:th typically makes the 5:th unusable, X levels of fortress, Y levels of nice resources (hopefully).
Also, I recommend at least 3 levels between the 3:rd (or only) cavern and the magma sea to allow you to dig between them without wet/hot stone cancellations all the time (and two levels between caverns for both the wet stone reason and because I definitely don't want tree holes into my tunnels when I start logging the caverns).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: SwiftBird on July 06, 2020, 09:35:52 am
Does anyone have any tips on creating a super dense world?  Ideally I'm looking for a world with:
And a nice embark with
I've tried playing around and I can get necro towers in dead worlds, or dense worlds with no towers, but it's hard to get both.
Steel and Candy are pretty straightforward - just jack up mineral prevalence and LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4.

Anyone know what to tweak to get that density?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: pisskop on July 06, 2020, 09:42:04 am
Worldgen doesnt really work like that.

we can only set the conditions, we cant ensure anything after the world starts.

Ensuring that all pops survive is a matter of luck, geography, and running several seeds.


Try upping the population and site caps, running the world for longer, running smaller worlds to reduce the strain on your computer, and increasing the amount of civs generated.

if youre willing to edit raws you could mod each entity to start with more pops, and give them better biome support.
Some civs will just be warlike, and others will be passive.  Elves tend to do poorly in dense atmospheres, and dwarves tend to be outnumbered and ground down through attrition over time.  Necromancers will do an excellent job of killing civs too, if you let them get too strong.

Reducing the number of beasts and the amount of savagery will let civs expand faster and grant them survivability.  Likewise, evil will slow them down, as will the various boogeymen.  Mineral density has a relatively small impact on worldgen, so go nuts.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 06, 2020, 02:11:22 pm
Current version necros aren't the same as older ones; the towers contain more than 100-200 zombies, and they do snowballing zombie apocalypse wars during wg.

So I'd say  improbable in .47.

I'd suggest building 1 peaceful larger/distant continent and 1 warlike dense continent (some necros will travel over ocean so may take some attempts). After worldgen, connect the two with immediatelly abandoned embark. Use raids/tribute requests to make contact.

Also, you meant 10k alive  hist figs right?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on July 06, 2020, 06:13:45 pm
How force necros to make more experiments?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on July 07, 2020, 02:44:50 am
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on July 06, 2020, 06:13:45 pm
How force necros to make more experiments?
You can't. More necros means more chances for experiments, which is what you have to bet on (and try to balance against the tendency of eliminate all normal population). Longer history means more necros and more time for necros to experiment, for example.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on July 07, 2020, 09:36:21 am
65x65, Small. For 1-3d raid travels.

Oceans, Glacials, and Mtns, keep to a minimum as they prevent traveling and make cave exploration impossible. Lots more historical figures, can be obtained by raising the megabeast numbers and of course raising the years of history generated.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on July 07, 2020, 02:05:02 pm
Quote from: SwiftBird on July 06, 2020, 09:35:52 am
Does anyone have any tips on creating a super dense world?  Ideally I'm looking for a world with:
  • Tons of historical figures (10k+)
  • 1-2 Civs of each race
  • Roughly balanced populations of each race (no worlds overrun with goblins)
  • Lots and Lots of Necro Towers
And a nice embark with
  • Tons of Steel and Candy
  • In the mountains
  • A short distance (1-3 days travel) from all of the above
  • Bonus: On a road or tunnel or something
I've tried playing around and I can get necro towers in dead worlds, or dense worlds with no towers, but it's hard to get both.
Steel and Candy are pretty straightforward - just jack up mineral prevalence and LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4.

Anyone know what to tweak to get that density?
While this doesn't meet all your requirements, it has some..
2k histfigs
>140 of each race
6 towers in range
more candy than iron on the embark (>6000)
steel friendly (magnetite, marble, coal)
2x2
flat
three caverns
rocky wasteland
clay
sand
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As the others have already mentioned, towers can have >750 animated per tower, so if it's volume/quantity of undead enemies you're looking for, more towers isn't always necessary.
If this is kind of what you're looking for, you can expand the PSV areas assigned to each race, and the total number of civs, to get more of them.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dushan on July 27, 2020, 10:45:37 am
Hello! I want to play with glass above ground.  I dont know how flexible the world generator is or if this is feasible but:

Need
-Surface magma (aesthetics, like a pool of it at surface level or only 1 or 2 below, I want to turn it into a lakeish feature)
-sand (only need a tiny bit, just for glass making)
-heavily 'forested' (any above ground wood type that can reproduce naturally) 
-friends! (would like trade with varied races)

would like (not necessity)
-water somewhere easy to get to, play with/drink major projects. 
-rock crystal for obvious glass related reasons

Would love some sort of, like...pipe of magma so it has sheer sides. I dont think thats a real feature so a volcano I can shave down to base z-level just leaving the core would also be nice.  But volcano's are mountains and I dont think you can get heavily forested Volcano's or sand in mountain terrain. Im really not sure.

Ive played multiple forts before so I anything else I can handle evil/good/hot/cold/aquifers/salt water, basically whatever.  I dont even care about metals or flux or any of that.  Just want something different, above ground constructs with wood and glass, lots and lots of glass...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on July 27, 2020, 12:00:34 pm
Dushan,

Is this (https://i.postimg.cc/SNb9fD62/image.png) too much verticality, regarding the magma/volcano/sheer-sides features you're looking for?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dushan on July 27, 2020, 02:52:55 pm
Not at all, thats beautiful.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on July 27, 2020, 11:26:53 pm
I think this one matches, then..  forests, volcano pipe/spire, elves, dwarfs, humans, yellow sand (at embark level), rock crystal, water in the caverns (and a pool on the surface).
And over 100Z of exposed volcanic spire, too.  :o
Spoiler: dushan1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dushan on July 28, 2020, 09:10:24 am
Simply awesome.  Thank you!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: DerSchlund on July 28, 2020, 05:49:04 pm
So I tried to understand why the cavern in the worlds generated with the parameters from the init/world_gen.txt (Small Region, Small island etc.) are so damn near the surface in comparison with the worlds from the standard "Create new world" option.
I compared the world_gen parameters side by site, but even with the help from the wiki I don't understand.

Am I the only one who has the problem with the magma sea at about Z-level 120?

Greetings, DerSchlund
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on July 28, 2020, 06:18:30 pm
Do you want the caverns to be near the surface, or would you prefer they be deeper?
Personally, I prefer 'thin' worlds, that is, those that have the fewest Z-levels between embark and magma.  However, opinions vary, and so do the options. :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: bucketsofbuckets on July 30, 2020, 01:51:04 pm
True evilness from the first page. Only one tower, but that's all I could manage. I tried the FROZEN VOLCANO from the first page, but lacking a seed, I couldn't get a very evil world. So, I messed with an export of one until I did. Two of the volcano sites are in evil biomes (for the life of me I can't get the 3rd one evil, without changing geography), and there are many areas with reanimation, evil clouds, etc.. Only dwarves and goblins are left as civs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on July 30, 2020, 02:38:45 pm
The frequncies are all 1s. I see this often in vjeks 17x17s. Why do you guys do that?

Unless your using PerfectWorld, set those up. Afterall, you have it set to use a mesh, first 1 is using the lowest mesh. Here I've corrected it. Also, set peak to 0. A peak is a wasted block in a frozen world with limited area, which could be that 3rd volcano.

You'll prolly have a Magma cannon, so cap the Savagery.

   [SAVAGERY:80:100:26:26]

Then,

   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:20:20:20:20:20]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:20:20:20:20:20]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:40:40:20:0:0]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:100:0:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:0:0:0:0:100]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:0:0:0:25:75]

Also, EVIL_SQ_COUNTS is a bit off the rocker, try 100 small regions, 0 and 0 for other sizes, 289 max.  Others are irrelevant.

I'd monitor rejects. Set subregions to 250. Then dial up to the smallest reported subregion from reject log. Then reroll the spline. Fewer subregions, are desired for topside magma gameplay, they say.

Good luck, 1000 evil clouds, OMG! Build a roof FAST.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 30, 2020, 05:51:27 pm
All vjek's 17x17 use PSVs; "Perfectworld", if you will. All 1s is the default parameters for "Mesh off" if you look into your world_gen.txt in fresh download. (Though really, PSVs are functionally lot like having a mesh size that matches the number of squares in your world.)

Why avoid glaciers? (with that drainage frequency)

Not seeing much point in having a mesh that is just all one option (temperature, savagery). Also, 60-80 volcanism is pointless for volcanoes; it's exactly 100 volcanism or bust as prerequisite for placing one.

An evil region will only ever have 1 interaction attached to it, so 1000 evil clouds in pocket is more about minimizing blood rain/ability to hack df to swap the cloud to one you prefer on your embark if you want something obscure.

I'd also disable subregion rejects entirely unless you want them.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: bucketsofbuckets on July 30, 2020, 08:41:37 pm
Quote from: knutor on July 30, 2020, 02:38:45 pm
The frequncies are all 1s. I see this often in vjeks 17x17s. Why do you guys do that?
If I start from scratch, I use meshes and weights. I really liked the geography and resources of several sites with the given seed, except that there was hardly any evil in my RNG seeds, using the original params, so I tried to keep from affecting the geography, and went back to params on rejects.

Quote
Good luck, 1000 evil clouds, OMG! Build a roof FAST.
That's the idea. It'll also only have dwarf caravans, but it may be too dangerous to let them in...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on July 31, 2020, 12:44:42 am
I see. I didnt catch Buckets was using PW. Gotcha. Makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: DerSchlund on July 31, 2020, 04:05:45 am
Quote from: vjek
Do you want the caverns to be near the surface, or would you prefer they be deeper?
Personally, I prefer 'thin' worlds, that is, those that have the fewest Z-levels between embark and magma.  However, opinions vary, and so do the options.

Ultimately I want to experiment with it.... so I want to understand how to make "thin" or "thick" worlds.
One thing I prefer is a minimum of 5 z-levels of stone between the caverns, but as far as I know, that can be accomplished with the [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:<number>] (and 2, 3, etc) parameter.
But how do I set the Magma-Layer on... say z-level 80?
Also... can I adjust the caverns to be max 3 z-levels tall?

Greetings, DerSchlund
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on July 31, 2020, 10:23:24 am
You're correct about the levels_above_layer settings.  Those adjust how many z-layers are between particular features.
If you have a certain number of caverns (1,2,3 or 0 if you mod raws for above ground farming) then you can control how much is between them.
If the embark is flat, and there are no other influencing features of the world/embark, then you can set certain depths exactly.
However, certain things you can't control directly.  You can't set the cavern heights directly. 
You can influence how tall they are with a few different features, but typically, they're always going to be the same height (5-6 I believe), in a flat embark.

Essentially, to make something like have magma appear on a given Z-level, you would ... you know, I have a post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8160351#msg8160351) where I just did this..  :D
That shows you the math for a very thin world.  If you wanted magma deeper, then simply increasing the levels_above_layer settings where appropriate would accomplish that goal.

The actual Z-level that is the embark level will vary by world.  In worlds with an ocean depth, or an ocean at all, it will be different than without.
For that reason, most references you see in this thread or similar refer to the embark level (ground level, where the wagon appears in a 100% flat embark) when describing how high or deep something is.  As in 'such-and-such mountain was 120Z high' means 120Z higher than the embark level, which could be anywhere from 100-149. (off the top of my head, again, it will vary by world, iirc)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: bucketsofbuckets on July 31, 2020, 04:07:26 pm
Quote from: knutor on July 31, 2020, 12:44:42 am
I see. I didnt catch Buckets was using PW. Gotcha. Makes sense now. Thanks for clearing that up.
No PW, just advanced world parameters.
Code: [Select]
[SEED:H9N9AEvkByrndnjnLoKn]I was trying to keep what the geography-creating parameters gave me with that. The given params in the by the original poster, DrCyano, were still RNG dependent (no SEED lines). That means very little messing around with a lot of the parameters, including all of the basic rain, elevation, volcanism, savagery, etc.. While it failed on evil, it did a good job on giving a lot of cold weather, and interesting sites (steep hills, very deep caverns, lairs, lakes, and so on, with a lot of features and variety inside of 2x2 embarks).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on August 01, 2020, 01:11:12 pm
Not sure if I would bother using a seed, from a PW worldgen, on a default worldgen. Lotsa additional trailering code from PW is missing.

Your strategy got me rethinking a default 17x17's worldgen. After 17 versions, and many tweaks, I got something to try. So while watching Gone in 60seconds on DVD, I let a playable frozen volcano roll out, it slowly rolled out to 1050yr.

Some interesting features. A Zombie Dragon titan, unknown force created it. But it failed to score a lair and died in yr5, boo! 0 mtn caves, 17 nonmtn caves. Breeding semimegas, Giant kids, lol. 0 oceans, 0 peaks, 0 rivers, but still got humans. No elves, no mermaids, either. 48.3million events. 3 surface volcanos. 4 animal man societies, no Lion man. Just weak animal man societies. Temperature extremes, with 2x2 mesh on all catagories.

In hindsight generating 48.3 million events, made loading Legends awful. But there is some interesting Titans to research.

Might watch another movie and let another long history roll out, tonight.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on August 01, 2020, 03:53:54 pm
Anyone have territories with mixed good and evil surroundings? I embark on one and want more.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 01, 2020, 05:11:17 pm
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on August 01, 2020, 03:53:54 pm
Anyone have territories with mixed good and evil surroundings? I embark on one and want more.
Joyous Wilds and Sinister in a 2x2, with some other encroaching biomes on the edges, too.
Steel Friendly, Temporary Syndrome Rain, Re-animation, Sand, Clay, Forest/Taiga, Temperate/Cold, entirely flat embark, a small surface river.
Glumprongs, Feather Trees, Sliver Barbs, Sun Berries.
It is possible to get more bubble bulbs, downy grass, wormy tendrils and staring eyeballs on the surface, it would just take more time to find.
Embark is Z149, magma at Z135, cavern from Z140-136 inclusive.
Spoiler: RIAKTOR_1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on August 01, 2020, 10:55:30 pm
@Buckets, here is a default 17x17, meant to be played, no Perfect World code. Its interesting, in that it reaches 10000yrs, with relative ease, most times with a dwarf civ.  Longer history equals greater evil.

Some highlights:
°A necro raised a titan in yr 488 and the Age changed, immediately back into Myth.
°Enough temp range, for all Vjeks researched diversity, yet still safe in areas of desire.
°Big open caverns(boon for monster slayers/hunters) an teensie weensie space saving lairs. Enough water for a well, but not so much, it bogs down the badguys.
°Cropped subregion to 200 and lowered civ size -7000, for a speedy history tick.

Enjoy. Copy and Paste spoiler at the end of your worldgen.txt in the /init folder.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changing Demon from 1 to a 3, will have the effect of flooding the map with circles(dark fortresses, I think). At the end of all that history, that wasnt what I wanted. Maybe try a 2, if Goblins seem scarce. But anymore will 3+ tends to lopside the civ vs civ balance.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: bucketsofbuckets on August 01, 2020, 11:00:20 pm
Quote from: knutor on August 01, 2020, 01:11:12 pm
Not sure if I would bother using a seed, from a PW worldgen, on a default worldgen. Lotsa additional trailering code from PW is missing.
AFAICT, PW was never involved. The original poster just let the RNG do its thing, but didn't have enough params set to guarantee the evilness of the results. I wanted a resulting world's geography, just without the easy first couple years.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: knutor on August 01, 2020, 11:14:12 pm
Hard to tell, unless he said so. Some PW code blocks exceed our posting data limits.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 02, 2020, 07:33:50 pm
A good world for learning the basics of DF, for ringworm24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176935.msg8169826#msg8169826).
Risks that are present:
-dwarves dying due to lack of food/water/drink
-dwarves going mental/crazy/suicidal due to lack of met needs/wants or just plain mental illness.
-after you open the caverns, forgotten beasts and cavern denizens/wildlife
-on the surface, some savagely wild/giant animals.

Risks that aren't present:
-Humans, Elves, Goblins, Kobolds, Titans, Semi/Megabeasts, Vampires, Werewolves, Necromancers
-Candy/Clowns/HFS

Features: flat embark, stream, aboveground crops & trees, dry/bloodthorn caverns, no aquifer, flux, sand, clay, iron, coal, grassland, giant creatures/wildlife

Things you can do..
Glass Industry
Pottery Industry
Wood Industry
Metal / Steel Industry
Hunting & Fishing
Above and below ground Farming
Domestic animal industry
Capturing/Taming
Replace all the clothing of your dwarves
Try out various types of weapons & armor against wildlife
Setup traps & death-hallways of various types for the caverns/FB's
Build raising/lowering drawbridges to protect your fort from the cavern threats
Build mastercraft blood thorn beds and great bedrooms for all your dwarves
Spoiler: learning_world (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: DerSchlund on August 14, 2020, 09:15:50 am
Quote from: vjek on July 31, 2020, 10:23:24 am
Essentially, to make something like have magma appear on a given Z-level, you would ... you know, I have a post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8160351#msg8160351) where I just did this..  :D
That shows you the math for a very thin world.  If you wanted magma deeper, then simply increasing the levels_above_layer settings where appropriate would accomplish that goal.

The actual Z-level that is the embark level will vary by world.  In worlds with an ocean depth, or an ocean at all, it will be different than without.
For that reason, most references you see in this thread or similar refer to the embark level (ground level, where the wagon appears in a 100% flat embark) when describing how high or deep something is.  As in 'such-and-such mountain was 120Z high' means 120Z higher than the embark level, which could be anywhere from 100-149. (off the top of my head, again, it will vary by world, iirc)

Sorry I'm confused... or rather I don't know....

So I have an example right here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see: "[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]" and so on....
But when I embark, I have the first Cavern at z-lvl 94 and the 2. at Z-lvl (-2) ... und the first semi molten rock is at Z-lvl (-21).

So where is my mistake? How to make the world "thiner"?

Greetings, DerSchlund
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 14, 2020, 09:30:11 am
I will generate that world later today and have a closer look, but at a glance, I would say it's due to "In worlds with an ocean depth, or an ocean at all, it will be different than without." that I mentioned previously.  Having both an ocean  (as low as elevation 1) and a peak (as high as elevation 400) means in that world, you could have hundreds of Z-levels of 'thickness' in the embarks, because that range is so large.

While it may not be what you're looking for, you can have worlds with a max elevation value of 301 (for dwarves) and a min elevation value of 299 (for elves, humans, goblins, everything else) and without oceans, peaks or volcanoes, it will certainly produce a thinner world.  I'm not saying that's what you must do, I'm just saying what's possible.
EDIT:
Your parameter set offers embarks with depths of 129-180, approximately, throughout your world.
Embarking on the east coast, where they are generally more shallow (129-133), still has ~100Z of stone layers before the caverns appear.
It's possible this is entirely due to the ocean/depth_1 being present in the world.

So, just to show you what I'm referring to above, I changed your parameters as follows: (and re-generated the world)
- removed peak requirement
- changed elevation min/max to 299/301
- removed elevation squares requirements

Now, the embark depths are in the 32-33 range, and there are -exactly- 5 Z layers of stone from the soil to the top of the caverns, in the few embarks I tested.
It's also worth noting you don't need a depth of 1 to get an ocean. You can get them with a depth of 99. (anything under 100)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: indyofcomo on August 14, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
My apologies if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are the pros & cons of going big or small on world size and history length?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 14, 2020, 02:09:49 pm
Quote from: indyofcomo on August 14, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
My apologies if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are the pros & cons of going big or small on world size and history length?
In my experience, the pros are speed.  with a smaller world and fewer historical figures you typically get faster saves, faster loads, higher FPS.

The cons are mostly opinion, and vary depending on your goals.  If you want historical figures, not having them is a con. 
If you want to travel farther/longer, or have particular features in your world, sometimes a larger world is necessary.
However, for a certainty, a larger world with a huge number of historical figures is more like to have slower loads, slower saves, and lower FPS, all other things being equal.
In general, I find that if players are primarily interested in playing fortress mode, a massive world with 99% of it outside the range of the fort has no value, but YMMV.

You can, however, have massive worlds with no historical figures, and have reasonable FPS, and not super annoying load & save times.
Similarly, you can have a pocket world with insanely high numbers of historical figures and have ridiculously long save & load times, with abysmal FPS.
Once in fortress mode, pathfinding can crush an otherwise fine fort, as time passes, and various bugs and behaviors begin to appear.  Even things like the number of dead, or the number of items in a fort, or water flow, or magma flow.. taken to absurd extremes, each of these can crush a world down to single digit FPS.

Happily, DF allows you to experience the entire range of good to bad, within your own personal tolerance of good and bad.  :D 8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on August 14, 2020, 05:39:07 pm
Yeah, the benefits of a small world are most notable in save/load. There's an impact on FPS, but usual fort stuff is a bigger impact on that, so it's not a big deal.

If you want to play adventure mode, a small world is 'easier'. Distances are shorter, it's easier to find people and stuff.

A larger world will have more history to dig through, though, just since it has more space for events to occur. If you like looking through Legends, a larger world should have more to look at
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Russell.s on August 21, 2020, 10:04:42 pm
I have a request. Ages ago, back when undead were basically invincible, I generated a world with only one dwarf civ and embarked on a re-animating evil red sand desert, to fight back the tide of evil! Sadly I lost the save somewhere along the way.

I'd like to recreate the theme, if possible.

Essential:
Smaller to Medium sized world (don't mind the size), and if possible, a 'normal' looking world, so I can later adventure through
Embark site that re-animates the dead, ideally with a cliff face or mountainside to dig into.
no evil rains (I hate the blood rains, but evil clouds are fine)
One dwarf civ, ideally not prospering-- although a completely dead civ would also be pretty neat!

Desirable:
Steel or iron or bronze available
a deep embark
2 cavern layers instead of 3
Dwarf Civ has a cool name :P

Thank you all for your help :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on August 22, 2020, 02:04:31 am
@Russel.s

It's probably possible to hack the civ name, although it is a bit of work, as you'd have to negotiate the name structure.

Are you sure a dead civ is OK? Are you aware that they cannot raid (you can send squads out, but they'll never move from just off the embark and will never return)? Raiding is FUBARed anyway, on the other hand...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Russell.s on August 22, 2020, 04:20:51 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on August 22, 2020, 02:04:31 am
@Russel.s

It's probably possible to hack the civ name, although it is a bit of work, as you'd have to negotiate the name structure.

Are you sure a dead civ is OK? Are you aware that they cannot raid (you can send squads out, but they'll never move from just off the embark and will never return)? Raiding is FUBARed anyway, on the other hand...

I wasn't aware of that restriction! In that case, just a low-pop civ would be fine :).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Russell.s on August 23, 2020, 06:26:56 pm
This is a cool world I've generated! Adding it so other people can use it if they want :).

It's a small world in which the dwarves never leave an isolated mountain range in the far north, thanks to being surrounded by tundra. This happens pretty consistently across every seed, thanks to The Teal Horns being one of the only non-evil mountain range on the map. In this particular seed the dwarven homeland is destroyed by elves in ~year 79. All civs are present.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edited to ask: there are two other smaller, nearby mountain ranges on the map. They're pretty small, representing only 1-2 world tiles. I've not seen the dwarves embark on either of those mountain ranges during my runs of the seed. Does anyone know why? Is there a minimum size (or elevation?) mountains have to be to attract dwarves?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 24, 2020, 01:38:46 pm
Quote from: Russell.s on August 21, 2020, 10:04:42 pm
I have a request. Ages ago, back when undead were basically invincible, I generated a world with only one dwarf civ and embarked on a re-animating evil red sand desert, to fight back the tide of evil! Sadly I lost the save somewhere along the way.

I'd like to recreate the theme, if possible.

Essential:
Smaller to Medium sized world (don't mind the size), and if possible, a 'normal' looking world, so I can later adventure through
Embark site that re-animates the dead, ideally with a cliff face or mountainside to dig into.
no evil rains (I hate the blood rains, but evil clouds are fine)
One dwarf civ, ideally not prospering-- although a completely dead civ would also be pretty neat!

Desirable:
Steel or iron or bronze available
a deep embark
2 cavern layers instead of 3
Dwarf Civ has a cool name :P

Thank you all for your help :)
This one should work..
Steel friendly (dolomite, magnetite, coal, lignite)
Sinister
Small World (33x33)
Reanimating Biome
Fire Clay
Sand
Light Aquifer
One Dwarven Civ, not dead
46 Z Levels from the Embark to SMR Sea
Two Caverns
You should be able keep the world seed and randomize the other seeds for other features like more civs or whatever other thing you want.
Spoiler: russell-s1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Russell.s on August 25, 2020, 04:47:04 pm
Quote from: vjek on August 24, 2020, 01:38:46 pm
This one should work..
Steel friendly (dolomite, magnetite, coal, lignite)
Sinister
Small World (33x33)
Reanimating Biome
Fire Clay
Sand
Light Aquifer
One Dwarven Civ, not dead
46 Z Levels from the Embark to SMR Sea
Two Caverns
You should be able keep the world seed and randomize the other seeds for other features like more civs or whatever other thing you want.
Spoiler: russell-s1 (click to show/hide)

Thank you so kindly vjek! I'm continuously impressed by work in this thread and the previous worldgen threads. You are definitely a Legendary World Crafter by now :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: BrisoS on October 12, 2020, 06:33:15 pm
Hi!

I haven't played DF in years and just getting back into it. And I have a question - the couple worldgens I found so far seemed to have particular params that don't seem to be "default" settings. I might be wrong but I listed two examples below. I'm just concerned about getting too far into a fortress before realizing the embark is missing stuff I did not realize I wanted to play with.

This is Vjek's particular message I am looking at: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8092523#msg8092523

[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:0] - I don't think these existed when I last played. Is this typically off by default? Sounds like fun/rare materials I might want to play with down the line, right?

[MEGABEAST_CAP:0] (and others like titans and semi's off as well) - Not saying I'm ready to duel Godzilla quite yet but I think I remember those being on by default - right?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: BrisoS on October 12, 2020, 06:43:16 pm
Oh and my request - in case that's simpler than explaining the worldgen parameters to me:


My request - I basically want an embark that won't send me crying back to playing Candyland on my first try:

"Basic" (I think) beginner friendly embark request:

Not too harsh biomes. Sinister might be ok (insert hesitant cough here).
-Nearby trader civs (Dwarf/Elves/Humans)
-Nearby Gobs would be great too.
-Surface Magma/Volcano (height doens't matter)
-River
-Trees/Fruit trees
-Standard Ore "rich-enough" (steel friendly I think is the term I've seen used for Iron/Coal/Flux?)
-Underground soil/sand/clay in case I want to farm beneath the surface
-I like to dig my fortress into cliffs rather than build on the surface.
-Not sure if I can choose to manually turn off Aquifers and if that would affect the worldgen. I don't mind them if they don't span the entire map.
-Embark size doesn't matter too much for me performance wise.

Thank you very much!

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 12, 2020, 07:44:22 pm
The parameters you quote above, BrisoS, are definitely not the default.  Most of the worldgens in this thread are very far from the default.
In the case of those two you mention, in fortress mode, the divine metals (to the best of my knowledge) have very little or no impact.  No reason to have them if they have no value, imo.
megabeasts and semi-megabeasts have the potential to wipe out civs or affect civ growth or populations.  In some worlds, they are used to great effect to ensure a civ or all civs are dead or gone.  In some, their lack is set to ensure some survive.
You can certainly change any and all parameters yourself to determine how they affect the outcome.  That's all part of the fun. :)

Your request isn't anything too particularly difficult, but just one query about aquifers, as it's been a few years since you've played..
Currently, in 47.04, aquifers are extremely easy to deal with.  They're not the embark-killers they were in the past, so given that, would it be fair to say you don't particularly care if there is an aquifer or not, as they are trivially breached and utilized now?  I only ask because it makes finding an embark that much easier if it's not a concern. Most people don't care, I'm just making sure.

EDIT: Also, just to make sure, it must be a river, and can't be a brook?  A brook makes it trivial, a river will take some time.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on October 13, 2020, 03:35:08 am
To elaborate on vjek's comment on aquifers:

Aquifers have been split into heavy aquifers and light aquifers, where the heavy ones are identical to the old ones, while the light ones trickle water, making them easy to negotiate (you can still screw up, but in doing so you probably realize what you did wrong and can correct it by digging a new staircase and not repeat the mistakes, and it's possible to "repair" the bugged up one, so you don't have to abandon the fortress due to flooding or anything like that).
About 1/20 of the aquifers are heavy, while the rest of them are light (i.e. 95%).

Also note that DF's pre embark aquifer indication is bugged, where the SW half of the tile doesn't show any aquifers regardless of whether any are present or not.

The reason divine metals are irrelevant to fortresses is that they can be acquired only in adventure mode by visiting the relevant structure, or by embarking on top of such a structure (and DF does not natively show any indications of where these are, so happening on them by chance has a very low probability). Supposedly (I have no first hand experience) wresting the metal from its previous owners is not trivial and not something you'd want to do unprepared and by accident. Rumors claim that bugged trading logic can cause elves to bring very small amounts of divine metal as musical instrument parts, but all the ones I've seen have been made of divine cloth, never metal.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: BrisoS on October 15, 2020, 12:02:23 pm
Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine.

One last question if I may - some of the worldgen seem to be at minimum size (17x17) - does that affect gameplay from my one fortress point of view? Or is it playable just like any larger size?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on October 15, 2020, 02:17:44 pm
The advantage of a small world is that the rest of the world has a smaller impact than a larger/busier one. Disadvantages of minimum size worlds are (not exhaustive list):
- They're brittle, i.e. it's easy for races to be wiped out or dominate the world with longer histories
- They can have trouble generating visitors to your fortress (my total sum of visitors in such worlds is 1, but others have been more successful).
- It's hard to be out of range of an undesirable civ without it being unreachable (i.e. on a different land mass). Contact range is 20 tiles, while world size is 17, meaning you need mountains in between to extend the range, and those mountains have to extend the range for all of the civ's sites.
- Small worlds means a small selection of possible sites, making the chance of a site matching a high number of requirements much less likely to exist in a small world than in a large one.
- Dry Broadleaf forests can only exist on worlds that have a height of 129 or 257 (I'm not sure whether the limit is 66 or 130 for non standard dimensions). The width does not matter, though.
- There's a significant risk you can't find high population enemy sites that would provide armies to attack you, be they other civs or necro towers. If you do find these, however, the sites would behave the same as in a larger world.

What size to aim for is really dependent on what you're after. If you want to concentrate on building your fortress with only your migrants and the yearly caravan from your civ as external contacts and visitors (including villains) are unwanted complications, the smallest size is definitely a good choice as it cuts away stuff you don't care about anyway.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 15, 2020, 08:28:24 pm
Quote from: BrisoS on October 15, 2020, 12:02:23 pm
Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine. ...
Here's two that match, BrisoS.

3x3 Temperate Shrubland + Mountain, volcano, brook
Caldera is to the SW, and is the high point in the embark area.
Steel friendly, sand, clay, trees, neighbors, etc, as you've outlined.  No Aquifer.
Spoiler: BrisoS1 (click to show/hide)

Second one.. 3x3 Temperate Conifer Forest + Mountain (you can adjust the embark to the east if you want less brook and more trees)
The hillside is on the north part of this embark, with the magma of the volcano being just below the embark level.
Similar stone/mineral features as the first, which you can compare in the prospect below. 
This one has a partial aquifer, it doesn't extend east and west adjacent to the volcano.
Spoiler: BrisoS2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 20, 2020, 01:19:08 am
How generate world that have glacier goblins with blizzard men and plain goblins with ogres?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on October 20, 2020, 02:16:15 am
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on October 20, 2020, 01:19:08 am
How generate world that have glacier goblins with blizzard men and plain goblins with ogres?
You'd probably have to change the entity raw to copy the goblins into a second instance (with a different name), and modify the first one to start on glaciers exclusively and the second one to start on plains exclusively.

I've modified my (single) goblin entity to start on glaciers exclusively both to give them blizzard men and to get them to spawn in specific places in my PSV world (preventing them from taking over the world most of the time). By ensuring there are nearby plains with ogres I an often get the dark tower near my designated embark location to have blizzard men, trolls, and ogres.
Note that I've also hacked the biomes during world gen to ensure blizzard men and ogres are available in their biomes.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: BrisoS on October 20, 2020, 04:44:41 pm
Quote from: vjek on October 15, 2020, 08:28:24 pm
Quote from: BrisoS on October 15, 2020, 12:02:23 pm
Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine. ...
Here's two that match, BrisoS.

3x3 Temperate Shrubland + Mountain, volcano, brook
Caldera is to the SW, and is the high point in the embark area.
Steel friendly, sand, clay, trees, neighbors, etc, as you've outlined.  No Aquifer.
Spoiler: BrisoS1 (click to show/hide)

Second one.. 3x3 Temperate Conifer Forest + Mountain (you can adjust the embark to the east if you want less brook and more trees)
The hillside is on the north part of this embark, with the magma of the volcano being just below the embark level.
Similar stone/mineral features as the first, which you can compare in the prospect below. 
This one has a partial aquifer, it doesn't extend east and west adjacent to the volcano.
Spoiler: BrisoS2 (click to show/hide)

I forgot to came back to say thank you. I went for #2 so I have a chance to get over my fear of aquifers at some point :D

Much appreciated!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Golbolco on October 28, 2020, 11:43:07 am
What's the minimum amount of years needed to pass during generation for towers to start forming? Part of my dream embark is being cozied next to all the civilizations and a tower for lots of trading, ambushes, and sieges.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on October 28, 2020, 02:57:43 pm
Quote from: Golbolco on October 28, 2020, 11:43:07 am
What's the minimum amount of years needed to pass during generation for towers to start forming? Part of my dream embark is being cozied next to all the civilizations and a tower for lots of trading, ambushes, and sieges.
That's not really a useful question. The answer is probably 0 or 1, but the probability for it to happen that early is probably fairly or very low. What I think you actually want is a typical number of years where there is a good chance for the desired criteria to be met, and that, in turn, depends very much on the world. My guess would be 50 years for a somewhat poor probability, with 100 for a better one.
Also note that the presence of a tower is in no way a guarantee for sieges. Firstly, most towers have fairly slow populations, so even if they do attack you exclusively, they tend to run out of cold bodies to send after 3-4 sieges. Furthermore, their strategic thinking tends to be absolutely horrible, so they tend to make an enemy of every civ within range, and thus tend to be wiped out fairly quickly after embark.
Ambushes don't really happen to any extent. You may get lucky to get kobolds that may send a whopping 3 characters to attempt to steal from you, and necro sieges may contain a small number of necromancers that try to sneak in. Goblin snatchers can similarly accompany sieges, which, like necros, are self defeating as most victims tend to pull together their defenses when a siege arrive, and the buggers don't have the smarts to arrive without announcing a siege, it seems. Elves can supposedly rarely mount proper ambushes, although I've never actually been at war with them.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Eric Blank on October 28, 2020, 05:58:29 pm
I'd aim for 200-300 years, as it increases the likelihood of towers popping up and the potential number of bodies they possess, since they accumulate them after battles in WG.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 28, 2020, 07:53:57 pm
Yep, somewhere between 200 and 1000 years (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8089924#msg8089924) apparently works pretty well.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 16, 2020, 12:25:18 am
Here's a challenging world and two challenging embarks.

The world/embark(s) feature:
A 2x2 embark area.
Dead Civ. No-one is coming to help you, beyond the two starting waves of migrants, no caravans.
A Dry Cavern.  Just bloodthorn trees.  No water, shrubs, or plants.
One Cavern, rather than two or three.
No surface trees.
No surface vegetation.
No surface water.
All wild animals entering the embark are undead/animated corpses.
The embark is Untamed Wilds + Evil (Terrifying), so you'll get giant animals as well as animal people, all as undead/animated corpses.
The embark region features reanimation of the recently deceased.
Sand
Steel Friendly: iron bearing ore, flux, coal+lignite (2000+ of each)
Magma within 14 Z-levels of the embark level.
A 'within embark range' Necromancer Tower.
No humans, elves, kobolds, titans, megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, clowns or candy.
Also, no access to pig tails (seeds or otherwise) from the dead civ.

The first embark has no aquifer, and as a result, no water of any kind.  Not on the surface, not in an aquifer, not in the caverns.
The second embark has a tiny aquifer, for those who would like the easier challenge of having a water source present.
Otherwise, the embarks are in the same region, "The Dunes of Sullying", and both should play in Fortress Mode as mostly identical.
To ensure this works as expected, I've taken this parameter set, edited only the worldgen.txt file in a brand new install of DF 47.04, generated the world, and embarked in the indicated locations.  Everything works as anticipated on Windows 10.
However, I've also put a .7z of the generated world on DFFD here (https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15307), which should work cross-platform in the same version, if it doesn't generate for you.

If you're looking for a play-through goal, try and build an above ground 3+ storey fort in either embark.  :o 8) :D
Spoiler: Undead Challenge world/embarks (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am
I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on November 23, 2020, 07:34:08 am
Quote from: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am
I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
Dwarves require mountains to start in, humans require plains, and elves require forests, while goblins can start anywhere. Too high evilness will block everyone. Humans seem to have a lower tolerance for evilness than the others. Too high a savagery is a problem for humans.
Thus, you can't make the world completely frozen if you want humans and/or elves.

It can also be noted that if your focus is fortress mode, it doesn't really matter to your fortress what the rest of the world looks like: you only see your embark, although raiding (when it doesn't crash your save) and trade can bring biome dependent produce into your fortress, which gives you a small taste of other biomes. Spending time to adjust the whole world when you really only want your possible embark locations to match some criteria can be overkill, and it might be better to try to focus on getting as many acceptable embark locations as possible in order to find one or two that is good.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 10:31:16 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on November 23, 2020, 07:34:08 am
Quote from: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am
I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
Dwarves require mountains to start in, humans require plains, and elves require forests, while goblins can start anywhere. Too high evilness will block everyone. Humans seem to have a lower tolerance for evilness than the others. Too high a savagery is a problem for humans.
Thus, you can't make the world completely frozen if you want humans and/or elves.

It can also be noted that if your focus is fortress mode, it doesn't really matter to your fortress what the rest of the world looks like: you only see your embark, although raiding (when it doesn't crash your save) and trade can bring biome dependent produce into your fortress, which gives you a small taste of other biomes. Spending time to adjust the whole world when you really only want your possible embark locations to match some criteria can be overkill, and it might be better to try to focus on getting as many acceptable embark locations as possible in order to find one or two that is good.

It is possible that I wrote it wrong somehow. Forgive me my english. The point of my question (hidden?) Was that I cannot, i.e. I do not have the necessary skills to create the above world. And I would like to "order" in a friendly way from someone who knows a ready-made template for generating the world. All templates that I tried didn't work for the .47 version unfortunately.

For elves to be, it is necessary, I suppose, to make them "southern tropics"? A special strip of forests in the south or north?

P.S. If you have a working template, then I would greatly appreciate it. Once again I apologize for my bad English ...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on November 23, 2020, 11:05:51 am
It's good you returned with a clarification. It came across as a general question rather than a request. I would probably have said something like "Could someone please provide me with a world with these characteristics?".

The English being poor is not a big problem. Sure, it can sometimes come across incorrectly, but clarifications can fix that.

I don't have any suitable world, but there is a very frequent contributor to this thread who is known to whip up worlds to match requests...

Elves can live in any kind of forest, so a Taiga would work. However, a single pole world (a pole either to the north or to the south, with an equator at the other end) would allow warmer climates near the equator while still making most of the world cold.

I don't expect you to have any immediate use of this information, but advanced world generation can either use a template where the world creator adjusts parameters, resulting in various somewhat normal looking worlds, or use PSV worlds (PreSet Values), where the parameters for each world tile are specified in advance, rather than generated by the game.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 23, 2020, 12:57:51 pm
Quote from: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am
I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable. ...
As Patrik mentioned, A world that is 100% entirely frozen won't have any races in it.  However, you can make it mostly frozen.
You can even make it frozen everywhere except some small areas where the races live.
Many megabeasts is subjective, and will contribute greatly to killing everyone.  What I mean by that is, if you put enough megabeasts into the world, everyone will be dead.  They'll kill all the civilizations.  A dangerous world is... dangerous.  8)  So, you can have some or a few megabeasts, but many (as in more than 10) in a pocket world, and it will reduce potential viability, considerably.

In any case, how many civilizations do you want, and of which type?  Or.. just a dwarf civilization plus any other?  Dwarf + goblins is pretty easy, but if you mean dwarfs + humans + elves + goblins, that's considerably more time & effort.  It's fine either way, just wondering what your tolerances are.

Is the goal to have three caravans (human, elf, dwarf) visit every year, or just one caravan, and/or goblin/necromancer attacks?
Do you want a surface volcano in the embark, or are they just there for atmosphere/flavor?

And don't worry about your English.  It's better than many native English speakers.  :D
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 24, 2020, 02:11:35 am
Quote from: vjek on November 23, 2020, 12:57:51 pm
Quote from: MrNihil on November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am
I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable. ...
As Patrik mentioned, A world that is 100% entirely frozen won't have any races in it.  However, you can make it mostly frozen.
You can even make it frozen everywhere except some small areas where the races live.
Many megabeasts is subjective, and will contribute greatly to killing everyone.  What I mean by that is, if you put enough megabeasts into the world, everyone will be dead.  They'll kill all the civilizations.  A dangerous world is... dangerous.  8)  So, you can have some or a few megabeasts, but many (as in more than 10) in a pocket world, and it will reduce potential viability, considerably.

In any case, how many civilizations do you want, and of which type?  Or.. just a dwarf civilization plus any other?  Dwarf + goblins is pretty easy, but if you mean dwarfs + humans + elves + goblins, that's considerably more time & effort.  It's fine either way, just wondering what your tolerances are.

Is the goal to have three caravans (human, elf, dwarf) visit every year, or just one caravan, and/or goblin/necromancer attacks?
Do you want a surface volcano in the embark, or are they just there for atmosphere/flavor?

And don't worry about your English.  It's better than many native English speakers.  :D

I just want a cold world, where there is a small area (s) with a temperate climate. Five volcanoes on an ice sheet, on one of which I want to make a tavern made of glass (or stone, as luck would have it), where different races will flock. Something like "the last hearth in the endless darkness of the cold", where everyone is welcome.

The races need each one one by one. One dwarf, one elves, one human and one goblin. One necromancer tower. One caravan from the dwarves and just attacks from anyone (often the army of necromancers) is enough for me. To simplify my idea a little (as far as knowledge of the language gives me), I want to make the world on the verge of extinction from the cold and necromancers, ala "Winter is near Game of Thrones." Hard times in a hard world and all things ...

Preferably heavy snowfalls, that's right almost every single day.

If it is too difficult to implement, then one dwarves, one goblins and one necromantic tower will be enough for me ...

I hope we understand each other.  :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 24, 2020, 11:40:58 am
Ok, from that, I'll look for a volcano on the surface embark of a glacier, in a world with all the races, at least one tower within the embark range, and sand available for glass.
Temperate and glacier don't typically go together, but if you want a temperate embark instead of a glacier, or both together as part of the embark, let me know.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 24, 2020, 12:15:41 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 24, 2020, 11:40:58 am
Ok, from that, I'll look for a volcano on the surface embark of a glacier, in a world with all the races, at least one tower within the embark range, and sand available for glass.
Temperate and glacier don't typically go together, but if you want a temperate embark instead of a glacier, or both together as part of the embark, let me know.

I'm looking forward to it. Thank you for your attention :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 24, 2020, 03:27:40 pm
Here's a world with two embarks, one on tundra with a bit of glacier, one on glacier entirely, both with surface volcanoes.
Both embark locations are within range of all races, and a necromancer tower with hundreds of inhabitants.
This is a PSV world, as you'll see by the worldgen parameters.

Spoiler: MrNihil1 (click to show/hide)
EDIT:
So, looking at your goal of wanting to have visitors, I tried that on both embarks, and no visitors show up, for me. (YMMV)
Thinking it might be related to density population or civilizations, I created a second similar world, and did get a single visitor.
However, the visitor had some issues..
Spoiler: frostbite (click to show/hide)
Initially, I had world temperature set at -90, but that creates NO TRADE flags on embark with all the nearby Civs, so I scaled it back to -85 so that wasn't happening.
Clearly, some histfigs are willing to brave the cold under the right conditions, but this isn't an area that I've extensively tested visitor behavior.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 25, 2020, 04:19:23 am
Quote from: vjek on November 24, 2020, 03:27:40 pm
Here's a world with two embarks, one on tundra with a bit of glacier, one on glacier entirely, both with surface volcanoes.
Both embark locations are within range of all races, and a necromancer tower with hundreds of inhabitants.
This is a PSV world, as you'll see by the worldgen parameters.

Spoiler: MrNihil1 (click to show/hide)
EDIT:
So, looking at your goal of wanting to have visitors, I tried that on both embarks, and no visitors show up, for me. (YMMV)
Thinking it might be related to density population or civilizations, I created a second similar world, and did get a single visitor.
However, the visitor had some issues..
Spoiler: frostbite (click to show/hide)
Initially, I had world temperature set at -90, but that creates NO TRADE flags on embark with all the nearby Civs, so I scaled it back to -85 so that wasn't happening.
Clearly, some histfigs are willing to brave the cold under the right conditions, but this isn't an area that I've extensively tested visitor behavior.

Thanks. I'll try it now
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MrNihil on November 25, 2020, 07:25:09 am
Quote from: vjek on November 24, 2020, 03:27:40 pm
Here's a world with two embarks, one on tundra with a bit of glacier, one on glacier entirely, both with surface volcanoes.
Both embark locations are within range of all races, and a necromancer tower with hundreds of inhabitants.
This is a PSV world, as you'll see by the worldgen parameters.

Spoiler: MrNihil1 (click to show/hide)
EDIT:
So, looking at your goal of wanting to have visitors, I tried that on both embarks, and no visitors show up, for me. (YMMV)
Thinking it might be related to density population or civilizations, I created a second similar world, and did get a single visitor.
However, the visitor had some issues..
Spoiler: frostbite (click to show/hide)
Initially, I had world temperature set at -90, but that creates NO TRADE flags on embark with all the nearby Civs, so I scaled it back to -85 so that wasn't happening.
Clearly, some histfigs are willing to brave the cold under the right conditions, but this isn't an area that I've extensively tested visitor behavior.

Everything works as I wanted. Thank you so much! :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Lord Shiteblast on November 26, 2020, 09:02:38 am
Howdy there. Just wondering if there's any way of getting a Walking Dead type of world? By which I mean almost everywhere is populated by undead. I don't know what parameters affect tower generation, but maybe making most of the world squares evil would do the trick? I'd be happy with a smaller or small sized world. Anyone got any advice?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 26, 2020, 11:05:57 am
Quote from: Lord Shiteblast on November 26, 2020, 09:02:38 am
Howdy there. Just wondering if there's any way of getting a Walking Dead type of world? By which I mean almost everywhere is populated by undead. I don't know what parameters affect tower generation, but maybe making most of the world squares evil would do the trick? I'd be happy with a smaller or small sized world. Anyone got any advice?
There's a few different types of undead. At least:
Thralling from evil clouds.
Reanimation after death.
Controlled/created by a necromancer.
Part of the region.

If you're looking for a fortress mode embark that has both reanimation and animated arriving corpses/undead wild animals, this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8212464#msg8212464) qualifies.

What features are applied to evil biomes or regions or what effects/syndromes come from particular evil clouds or rain is procedurally generated.
You can, for example, generate a world that has lethal versions of all of those, while some are minor inconveniences at best.
While towers are a source of undead, the denizens, at least, from what I've seen, stay in or near the tower unless on a specific task.  That may be different with the new towers that spread evil in Adventure Mode, but I haven't tested enough of that personally to speak with any authority.
From your request, it seems like a biome (or many) where the trees and animals are all undead/dead is likely the closest match.  I call these animated corpse embarks, because you get things like Barn Owl Corpse, Echidna Corpse, or Buzzard Man Corpse arriving on the embark regularly. (depending on the biome)

It's worth noting, though, that in these embark regions?  Surface existence is extremely challenging without your military being fully equipped in metal gear and having very high military/combat skills.  At least, in fortress mode.  Particularly if you start getting Undead versions of Giant creatures.

The other challenge is that Regional Interactions (which are the things that can have/cause these reanimating, corpsing, etc effects) are only different based on different regions.  If you have one region throughout your entire world, or only a handful, you'll only get a handful of unique Regional Interactions, and thusly, very few chances at seeing Undead regional effects within range of other features you may desire, like water, metal, sand, clay, flux, or trade with other races.  Generating unique regions can also be tricky, depending on what biomes you're comfortable with or desire.  It's much easier to create very large single regions rather than many tens/hundreds of tiny regions, which is the opposite of what you want, in this scenario.

Obviously, it's possible to get it all together.  However, it can take some time reviewing many tens/hundreds of worlds, depending on how specific you are with your requirements, and how few or many unique regions there are in the target worlds.  Evil clouds are similar.  You can have many evil clouds in a world, but there's often no guarantee they have the evil that you want, or even that they'll show up with enough frequency to make it challenging, although one brief mistake can end your fort very quickly (if all your dwarves are above ground and all are caught in a cloud at the same time)

Lastly, there are now quite a range of different necromancer undead types.  Experiments, lieutenants, divination, ghouls, summons all create quite a range of type, difficulty and density.
Recently, for example, I had an unexpected visit from some necromancers who brought many crossbow/bow/ranged attackers.  Hadn't seen that before, personally, and it .. wiped out the fort quite handily.  There's also demonic experiments permitted as well, which.. given how simply LARGE demons are, and the consequences in combat, any undead version would be very very difficult to engage hand-to-hand.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Machinist on December 22, 2020, 07:46:13 pm
Returning player(s) here!

Lot of cool stuff added since a few year, so it's time to have another go at DF! We're doing a succession fort like we've always done when getting back to DF, à la style of BoatMurdered. So I/we are looking for an embark that's close to BoatMurdered, but with the new features like Necromancer Towers (and obviously the z-levels etc). And enough goblins to kill (I've heard we can run out of them now? Sadness). Any world-gen advice to create & find such embark zones is also welcome!

I believe the list would go something like this:

- Embark area split linearly in ~half from bottom to top (swamp/forest + nearly perfectly vertical, straight rock mountain)
- Running water on the swamp/forest side (river, brook etc)
- Shallow volcano on the vertical straight rock mountain
- Preferably lot of metals + flux
- Preferably w/ Elephants, but we take any spooky local fauna as well, the eviler the better
- Embark area 4x4
- Circus + cave(s)

The world we're looking for:
- Mountains of goblins to poke at
- Lot of titans/mega/semi beasts alive
- At least one healthy necro tower near embark
- Access to healthy human+elf civs
- I've been told 65x65 is really the min for enough history

It's a big ask, but if somebody has something even close we'd be happy dwarves, and we will name our future King/Queen in your name! <3
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 23, 2020, 11:02:54 am
Nothing too tricky in your request, Machinist, except these features:

- Shallow volcano on the vertical straight rock mountain
- Lot of titans/mega/semi beasts alive
- Access to healthy human+elf civs

The titans/mega/semi's will have a tendency to wipe out all the civs they are near, over time.
The more of them there are, the more they will tend to do this.  So, this is often a mutually exclusive situation.

A shallow volcano with a vertical mountain don't usually go together, depending on your definition of shallow and vertical, in quantity.
It's pretty straightforward to find a volcano +/- 1 or 2 Z-Levels from the embark.
It's pretty straightforward to find a mountain that rises quickly with 1-10 vertical faces before sloping back to the peak.
Getting those together?  You'll typically find either a spire of obsidian sticking out of the mountainside with the volcano at the top, of varying heights, or the volcano at the embark level, surrounded by a caldera (not a vertical wall, depending on your definition).  Finding something 'in-between' those two extremes is uncommon, in my experience.

As a minor difficulty, volcanoes typically only form in igneous extrusive, rather than sedimentary layers.  This is normally exclusionary/preventative regarding flux, coal/lignite, and iron bearing ore (although marble and hematite can form there) so that's something to keep in mind.

If you're willing to be flexible on the volcano, it would make finding an embark quite a bit easier.  In a 65x65 world, you're going to be out of range of many of these matching features, given how close you have to be to lairs, towers and civs to have 'contact'.
In general, finding the matching geography isn't what takes the time.  The time is consumed more by finding the appropriate non-geographical matches (civs, towers, contacts).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on December 23, 2020, 01:43:40 pm
- I guess that if you're going for a two biome embark you can try to get one of them as igneous and the other one as sedimentary.
- You can gt lots of big baddies together with civs if you embark quickly after the world gen, but that won't protect the civs from betting stepped on during the fortress' history.
- It's possible to hack the embark in various way, both the geo biome (i.e. the minerals present) and the elevation of mid level tiles (the tiles your embark is formed from, i.e. "3*3" for example). This can be used to hack rather steep inclines. However, these hacks are temporary, i.e. they make it to the fortress only if you embark immediately without shifting the focus to another world tile (and I don't know what happens with the hacks if you retire and reclaim a fortress).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on December 23, 2020, 04:03:55 pm
How make world with as much experiments as possible? Especially with experiments on multitudes.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Machinist on December 24, 2020, 03:03:34 am
Quote from: vjek on December 23, 2020, 11:02:54 am
Nothing too tricky in your request, Machinist, except these features:

[snip]

Much appreciated for your reply Vjek.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the "lava-level" on +/-2 Z's from embark level is completely fine. Was referring to those spires you mentioned, as they kinda hinder throwing gobs into it as a sacrifice to Armok. We've been somewhat successful with it thus far, but the right combination is eluding us atm:

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386465004062244887/791574914858745856/Untitled1.png),

If we're missing flux or similar no biggie, we can and will make do if it's the only thing missing.

We've tried genning worlds with higher number of civs and beasts, and a relatively short year-count, to ensure enough towers pop-up without too many civs dying. We've deprioritized elfs and kobolts cause they don't have much use for a fort (w/ enough gobs & necros). Seems to work reasonably well, but we're having trouble getting good enough combination of geography and other features.

World size is also something we can flex from, we're just worried we'll run out of *fun* in small worlds, now that you can run out gobs. And with little surviving beasts it's another downer.

Hope this helps/clarifies?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 24, 2020, 11:20:41 am
Definitely, that clarifies things.  I found a few worlds/embarks that match pretty closely to what you've presented there in the embark screenshot, plus flowing water and the rest of the features you mentioned.  I've found a few with 3 towers, and all civs, in evil, but most had spires or calderas, but ~near embark level magma is a big help, so I should find something later on today.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 24, 2020, 04:15:14 pm
Ok, I think this one matches, Machinist, and.. the worldgen (without seeds) will generate a lot of matches without too much trouble if this one isn't to your liking. 
One thing I will note that is a bit.. atypical in my experience is, this worldgen doesn't always have goblins coming out on top, despite having quite a lot of demons, comparatively. 
If you decide to generate your own versions of this world, and you don't see 10k+ goblins in the world populations, you likely won't have Goblin contact on embark.  Even if you see 1-2k goblins, from the worlds I saw, no Goblin contact on embark.
I haven't picked a specific embark because there are a few matches (highlighted in green).  I think the southmost one is the 'best' match, but I'm sure opinions will vary.
You can also try increasing the titan/semi/mega's if you're feeling lucky.  :D

Spoiler: machinist1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MudSoakedReacher on December 27, 2020, 07:15:33 pm
Does anyone have a world that has an evil volcano that is also a lair?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 27, 2020, 07:21:01 pm
I've never seen anything in DF live inside a volcano other than fire imps and magma crabs.
Clowns, FB, Titans, and similar magma-proof entities, of course, will path through them given no other choice, but lair entrances (that I've seen) typically start on the surface of soil/rock layers or are in mountain/non-mountain 'surface' caves.
I haven't personally ever seen a lair generated in a volcano or on a volcano tile, but.. that doesn't mean it can't or doesn't happen.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Thatguy65790 on December 31, 2020, 02:55:15 pm
Hello newish player here with a few questions and a request if you will.
First i already have a world i kinda liked but i want to restart it is there a way to rewind or regen it exactly as it was? I do not know if i used advanced world gen or regular to make it if that helps or hurts.
Second You cannot send out raids with a dead civ right? If i were to start, retire a fort and then make a new fort could that new fort send out raids?
Third question do you have any tips on generating worlds with dead or dying civs but still has humans or elves alive and definitely has goblins?
Final and kinda for fun question is there a way to be the first and only dwarven civilization? Im sure this would be tricky but does seem fun.
As for my request can i get a pocket or smaller world with a dead or dying civ, an ocean on one side of the map, 2 volcanoes, goblins, human or elves still alive only need 1 of them prefer both, just a few megas, semis and a titan or two, only 1 cavern layer that has water and trees, As for the embark can i get a 3x3 that has some savage area, is steel or bronze friendly, has trees, and has a water source (River, brook, or light aquifer)
Sorry if this is a bit much, thanks
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 31, 2020, 04:21:02 pm
Quote from: Thatguy65790 on December 31, 2020, 02:55:15 pm
Hello newish player here with a few questions and a request if you will.
First i already have a world i kinda liked but i want to restart it is there a way to rewind or regen it exactly as it was? I do not know if i used advanced world gen or regular to make it if that helps or hurts.
Second You cannot send out raids with a dead civ right? If i were to start, retire a fort and then make a new fort could that new fort send out raids?
Third question do you have any tips on generating worlds with dead or dying civs but still has humans or elves alive and definitely has goblins?
Final and kinda for fun question is there a way to be the first and only dwarven civilization? Im sure this would be tricky but does seem fun.
As for my request can i get a pocket or smaller world with a dead or dying civ, an ocean on one side of the map, 2 volcanoes, goblins, human or elves still alive only need 1 of them prefer both, just a few megas, semis and a titan or two, only 1 cavern layer that has water and trees, As for the embark can i get a 3x3 that has some savage area, is steel or bronze friendly, has trees, and has a water source (River, brook, or light aquifer)
Sorry if this is a bit much, thanks
1) Yes.  Enter Legends mode for that save/world, and press 'p' to export the required files to regenerate it from scratch back to its original form.

2) It's buggy, for certain.  Someone else will have to provide more details, not my area of experience.  I can only confirm that with a dead civ, an attempted raid (today) failed to return for me (in 47.04).

3) Yes, I've just been doing that for a personal project.  Tips... is tricky.. there's a variety of ways that all dwarven civs die off.  Some things can increase the likelihood.  An increase in danger is certainly one way.  That danger can be hostile civs, titans, FBs, semi/mega beasts, and more.  However, even just one FB showing up early in history can wipe out a dwarven civ, regardless of all other features, so.. it can happen in almost any world, if there is only one dwarven civ being generated.  Of course, to ensure that is relatively straight forward, just create one place where it can appear, and you only get one.  In my experience, if there are zero living dwarves in world_sites_and_pops.txt and zero dwarven historical figures, you have >99% chance that all dwarven civs are dead (not just dying).  Dying civs are pretty easy, just find a world with some dwarven histfigs and zero living dwarves.

4) Yes, a bit further to the answer to (3) is:  Create a single 300 elevation tile that is non-savage.  Set your cavern water to 15/15.  Set the number of civs to one, and only a dwarven civ will be created.  You an have zero, tens or hundreds of other (non-dwarven) civs, if desired.

Nothing too tricky in your request, I'll work on it today.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Thatguy65790 on December 31, 2020, 05:24:18 pm
Quote from: vjek on December 31, 2020, 04:21:02 pm
1) Yes.  Enter Legends mode for that save/world, and press 'p' to export the required files to regenerate it from scratch back to its original form.

2) It's buggy, for certain.  Someone else will have to provide more details, not my area of experience.  I can only confirm that with a dead civ, an attempted raid (today) failed to return for me (in 47.04).

3) Yes, I've just been doing that for a personal project.  Tips... is tricky.. there's a variety of ways that all dwarven civs die off.  Some things can increase the likelihood.  An increase in danger is certainly one way.  That danger can be hostile civs, titans, FBs, semi/mega beasts, and more.  However, even just one FB showing up early in history can wipe out a dwarven civ, regardless of all other features, so.. it can happen in almost any world, if there is only one dwarven civ being generated.  Of course, to ensure that is relatively straight forward, just create one place where it can appear, and you only get one.  In my experience, if there are zero living dwarves in world_sites_and_pops.txt and zero dwarven historical figures, you have >99% chance that all dwarven civs are dead (not just dying).  Dying civs are pretty easy, just find a world with some dwarven histfigs and zero living dwarves.

4) Yes, a bit further to the answer to (3) is:  Create a single 300 elevation tile that is non-savage.  Set your cavern water to 15/15.  Set the number of civs to one, and only a dwarven civ will be created.  You an have zero, tens or hundreds of other (non-dwarven) civs, if desired.

Nothing too tricky in your request, I'll work on it today.
Thank you and here is the world i used a while ago if anyone is interested its a pocket world with a main continent and a small 7 tile island that has a volcano, dying civ One dark fortress on the island, Mainland has goblins, two necro towers and human neighbors according to embark assistant a few semis are still alive according to legends. Also in a few game years when i was playing this map it will enter into the age of goblins.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 31, 2020, 06:51:18 pm
Quote from: Thatguy65790 on December 31, 2020, 02:55:15 pm
... As for my request can i get a pocket or smaller world with a dead or dying civ, an ocean on one side of the map, 2 volcanoes, goblins, human or elves still alive only need 1 of them prefer both, just a few megas, semis and a titan or two, only 1 cavern layer that has water and trees, As for the embark can i get a 3x3 that has some savage area, is steel or bronze friendly, has trees, and has a water source (River, brook, or light aquifer) ...
Here's a match:
Has a light aquifer, sand, clay, three iron bearing ores, flux, coal, and lignite, along with HFS.
Is an Untamed Wilds Badlands with a stream, trees and shrubs on the surface.
Has a single cavern with underground plants and mushroom trees.
Has Humans, Elves, and Goblins as embark neighbors, with ~5k goblins.
Is a dead dwarven civ.
World map has two ocean edges, is a pocket world, and has two volcanoes.
There are 3 megas, 3 semis, and 2 titans.
As a bonus, you also got a 'stretched' single cavern, that runs from Z-Level 87 down to Z-Level 52, 35Z in height, rather than the typical 5Z.
Spoiler: Thatguy65790 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Thatguy65790 on December 31, 2020, 07:00:43 pm
Quote
Here's a match:
Has a light aquifer, sand, clay, three iron bearing ores, flux, coal, and lignite, along with HFS.
Is an Untamed Wilds Badlands with a stream, trees and shrubs on the surface.
Has a single cavern with underground plants and mushroom trees.
Has Humans, Elves, and Goblins as embark neighbors, with ~5k goblins.
Is a dead dwarven civ.
World map has two ocean edges, is a pocket world, and has two volcanoes.
There are 3 megas, 3 semis, and 2 titans.
As a bonus, you also got a 'stretched' single cavern, that runs from Z-Level 87 down to Z-Level 52, 35Z in height, rather than the typical 5Z.
Spoiler: Thatguy65790 (click to show/hide)
Thank you vjek! thats perfect.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 01, 2021, 06:16:22 am
Dead civs: As mentioned, "raids" sent by truly dead civs will leave the embark and then never progress from there. Note that messengers are "raids" as well for the purpose of this logic, while exiled dorfs actually do move to a location of their chosing when just exiled. I'm unsure if sending to a holding works, but think it might as well.

Retiring/abandoning fortresses and then creating new ones does not seem to revive dead civs. I believe it's possible to spread a dead civ with new fortresses and then hack the civ to a live state for a new embark to actually belong to a civ that isn't dead, but haven't actually proven it (hacking a dead civ before the first embark can make it a live one, as that's been tested).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 02, 2021, 08:27:06 pm
I suggest a world.

No bigger than Smaller. As much, as possible: night trolls, bogeyman, nightmares, towers, experiments, enemies (if dwarves will be in war with both humans and elves, it will be the best). No werebeasts and not many vampires. Elves live in good region, goblins live in evil regions. Embark on night troll lair with full family (both wife and husband, possible with children).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UristVanHelsing on January 02, 2021, 11:15:42 pm
Can I request someone help me with an adventure world? I'm looking for a large world, mostly one continent, but some outlying islands are ok. Lots of civ variety and lots of semi-megabasts, megabeasts, Titans, FBs, everything. Lots of cities of every kind. I'm kind of ok at basic advanced worldgen, but the stuff I struggle with is getting the ratio of interesting monsters to landmass right. I'm also looking for a longish history ~550 years because I want LOTS of artifacts. Because of the long history, I'm not sure what to do about the civs, because I don't want the history length to mean that one civ takes over all the others. In terms of ratios, I want as close to and even split between dwarves elves, goblins, and humans.

Summary: LOTS OF EVERYTHING, but I don't know how to make the ratios work
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on January 03, 2021, 03:35:29 am
@UristVanHelsing: What's the max pop site you will accept? Because I know advmode sites with 10k population are not really visitable, and that's what will happen if you leave dark fortress to stand for two centuries. Would be kinda sucky to have all the artifacts just out of reach.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: UristVanHelsing on January 04, 2021, 12:46:22 am
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on January 03, 2021, 03:35:29 am
@UristVanHelsing: What's the max pop site you will accept? Because I know advmode sites with 10k population are not really visitable, and that's what will happen if you leave dark fortress to stand for two centuries. Would be kinda sucky to have all the artifacts just out of reach.
I have a i7-8750H CPU @ 2.20GHz. What's the highest pop I can have an still have decent frames? I suspect something like 2k? I have no idea.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on January 07, 2021, 03:02:47 pm
Hello guys !

So i was thinking about getting back to DF, haven't played for a while. So i'm looking for a cool map.

I want to experiment with canyons, the larger / taller the better ! 

A bonus would be to have all 4 races as neighbors. And the cherry on top of it would be a volcano but i know the combination of the volcano and waterfalls is a bit tricky, so it's optional.

Anyone can work his magic to find something like that ? Thanks in advance, you guys are heroes !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Salmeuk on January 07, 2021, 03:50:01 pm
Nevrast,

You're best bet for canyons is to increase river generation and lower erosion cycle counts. Look for the intersection of two rivers, and at that confluence you are likely to find tall cliffs and waterfalls. If you are lucky and can find an intersection of 3 or more, the terrain will be all kinds of craziness.

Another location where I have found tall cliffs is lakeside embarks. In the embark screen, make sure you have the relative heightmap display selected, and look for a lake nearby an intersection of biomes. The lake's elevation should be flat and dark blue, and you are looking for terrain directly adjacent to the water that is at least 3 relative-height levels higher. This will generate an embark with tall, lakeside cliffs - perfect for that scenic fortress location, and less laggy than a river. I think.

Of note are volcanoes, however they often generate extremely tall embarks that can lead to annoying terrain (too many z-levels makes it tough to locate units or witness fights). Look for volcanoes with middling height for best results.

You would think that river valleys would create interesting terrain, but world gen seems to apply a terrain-flattening effect after rivers are generated, leading to rather boring 3-tile space around any given river or stream, regardless of flow rate or surrounding terrain. This effect explains why two rivers meeting generates such interesting terrain: the game is attempting to flatten terrain but runs into a problem with the relative height, and is forced to generate cliffs and waterfalls to explain the difference. So it appears to me, at the very least.

Here is an example of how I use the embark screen to find interesting cliffs:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyways, I know I didn't generate a world or anything, but I hope you find these tips useful when looking for that perfect embark.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 07, 2021, 03:55:22 pm
Quote from: Nevrast on January 07, 2021, 03:02:47 pm
Hello guys !

So i was thinking about getting back to DF, haven't played for a while. So i'm looking for a cool map.

I want to experiment with canyons, the larger / taller the better ! 

A bonus would be to have all 4 races as neighbors. And the cherry on top of it would be a volcano but i know the combination of the volcano and waterfalls is a bit tricky, so it's optional.

Anyone can work his magic to find something like that ? Thanks in advance, you guys are heroes !
Haven't tried a canyon/volcano embark in a while, so I'll make the attempt.  If not, I'll at least make it so it's less than 20Z to magma, from the lower river.
As you know, sheer vertical cliff canyons (that I know of) are most reliably formed at the junction of two rivers.  So, there will be a river forming the bottom of the canyon. 
And of course, likely a waterfall from the upper canyon, although it might be possible to exclude that from the embark, depending on how it's formed.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on January 07, 2021, 06:19:41 pm
Yes that would be ideal, with the bottom river being a bit large if possible ! I want to try to build a fortress on both sides with several bridges and use the upper stream to form an aqueduct.

Thanks Vjek !

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 07, 2021, 07:44:10 pm
Something like this (https://i.postimg.cc/vTXL7PyR/stonesense-wide-river-cliffs.png), Nevrast?
That's one region wide E/W, 3 regions tall N/S.
Also something like this (https://i.postimg.cc/tCHV9sfK/stonesense-canyon1x1.png) is possible. (1 x 1)
And a third choice (https://i.postimg.cc/7hZdzHQw/stonesense-screenshot3x2.png)..
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on January 08, 2021, 08:49:21 am
Yeah something like n°1 ! Any chance on the volcano ?  i know it's the most difficult part  :-X
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 08, 2021, 10:54:18 am
Generating the canyons, not a problem.  Getting the neighbors, shouldn't be too bad either.   Creating the volcanoes, also no problem, it's just the method of creating the canyons often necessitates having very high elevation next to very low elevation, and when you add a volcano to very high elevation, it has the tendency to drive up adjacent diagonal tile elevation, affecting the path of the river(s).  But we'll see, I should have a result, if a result can be had, some time today.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 08, 2021, 01:42:28 pm
Quote from: Nevrast on January 08, 2021, 08:49:21 am
Yeah something like n°1 ! Any chance on the volcano ?  i know it's the most difficult part  :-X
First, here's a world and embark with some of your requirements met..
Humans, Dwarves, Goblin neighbors (Elves absolutely refuse to spawn in this world, for whatever reason I can't figure out)
Magma is ~10Z from the canyon-river bottom. Bottom of the river is Z98, magma forges can be built on Z88.
Sand, Clay, Fire Clay, Untamed Wilds.
Unfortunately, the worldgen entry is too large to post here (The message exceeds the maximum allowed length) so I'll put it on pastebin and link it.
As always, you can randomize the history/name/creature seeds if you want to try for different neighbors/civs.
Spoiler: Nevrast-River-Canyon (click to show/hide)
Second, some more details about attempting to put a volcano in the path of a very large river canyon..
If I set one world tile to volcanism 100, and set the number of volcanoes to 1, it completely changes the entire world for river flow.  It's actually pretty amazing how much that single change causes.
Even so, I tried a few different methods that I could think of to force it, and I have never seen it run the river on the same world tile as the volcano.  It will run them adjacent, but never together.
The worldgen engine is willing to reroute every water feature / water flow in the entire 65x65 world to avoid doing that, so.. if it's possible, it's not possible using any method I have come up with or seen before.  Doesn't mean it's not possible, though.  :D
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 08, 2021, 02:04:31 pm
It's possible to hack rivers in an existing world, but then you have to first generate the world, then hack it, and then embark (you can't save a world while in the embark stage, although it is possible to hack the world before accepting it, assuming it's a world tile hack and not a Mid Level Tile one [changes to the latter aren't saved when they go out of scope]).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on January 08, 2021, 04:56:59 pm
i'm trying to make a large world with one megacontinent and one huge mountainridge for modding purposes, any tips on how to achieve this? i dont want any ridges besides that
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 08, 2021, 05:54:43 pm
Quote from: GOTOTOTOE on January 08, 2021, 04:56:59 pm
i'm trying to make a large world with one megacontinent and one huge mountainridge for modding purposes, any tips on how to achieve this? i dont want any ridges besides that
In a general sense, this is close:
Spoiler: mountain-island (click to show/hide)
So, what is this?  It's a 257x257 seedless worldgen with very few limits or requirements. 
It should, typically, place a single large mountain range/group/area/region in the center of a roughly circular continent, with varying biomes by latitude and rain/drain sloping towards the ocean.
If you want to see a considerably different landmass, change the Elevation Mesh Size from 2x2 to something different, like 4x4.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on January 08, 2021, 06:55:26 pm
Quote from: vjek on January 08, 2021, 05:54:43 pm
Quote from: GOTOTOTOE on January 08, 2021, 04:56:59 pm
i'm trying to make a large world with one megacontinent and one huge mountainridge for modding purposes, any tips on how to achieve this? i dont want any ridges besides that
In a general sense, this is close:
Spoiler: mountain-island (click to show/hide)
So, what is this?  It's a 257x257 seedless worldgen with very few limits or requirements. 
It should, typically, place a single large mountain range/group/area/region in the center of a roughly circular continent, with varying biomes by latitude and rain/drain sloping towards the ocean.
If you want to see a considerably different landmass, change the Elevation Mesh Size from 2x2 to something different, like 4x4.
tysm!!!!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on January 08, 2021, 07:33:23 pm
@vjek: The lack of elves is because with larger(or maybe just taller) world dims the site placement is more picky, usually wanting bigger suitable start area to place the civ. Elves get placed fine if I reduce dims to 33:33 and zero savagery:

|(https://i.imgur.com/ZmsW7TG.png)|

Iirc we encountered this in the past with making megabeast islands working in pocket but not in large worlds.

Also, nice trick with elevation mesh.

@UristVanHelsing: Upon rereading of your request, I'm afraid it's not possible to have lots of of megabeasts&Titans in same world with lots of cities an equal ratio of civs in one-continent world.

The megabeasts wreck the civs that are on same continent, and the only ones who can stand a chance are goblins with their demon master shielding. I've tried before to get as little as 10 each of megas&civs, and failed. Otherwise, consider having demons only emerge from dwarven sites.

You can impose max 2k pop by editing the raws in entity_default.txt, however.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 08, 2021, 07:40:47 pm
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on January 08, 2021, 07:33:23 pm
@vjek: The lack of elves is because with larger(or maybe just taller) world dims the site placement is more picky, usually wanting bigger suitable start area to place the civ. Elves get placed fine if I reduce dims to 33:33 and zero savagery: ...
  That's exactly what I was going to do to test, so, glad you did it.  Having said that, such variable civ placement behavior is just... wrong!  :D  But at least there is a reason.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on January 10, 2021, 09:40:42 am
Quote from: vjek on January 08, 2021, 01:42:28 pm

First, here's a world and embark with some of your requirements met..
Humans, Dwarves, Goblin neighbors (Elves absolutely refuse to spawn in this world, for whatever reason I can't figure out)
Magma is ~10Z from the canyon-river bottom. Bottom of the river is Z98, magma forges can be built on Z88.
Sand, Clay, Fire Clay, Untamed Wilds.
Unfortunately, the worldgen entry is too large to post here (The message exceeds the maximum allowed length) so I'll put it on pastebin and link it.
As always, you can randomize the history/name/creature seeds if you want to try for different neighbors/civs.
Spoiler: Nevrast-River-Canyon (click to show/hide)
Second, some more details about attempting to put a volcano in the path of a very large river canyon..
If I set one world tile to volcanism 100, and set the number of volcanoes to 1, it completely changes the entire world for river flow.  It's actually pretty amazing how much that single change causes.
Even so, I tried a few different methods that I could think of to force it, and I have never seen it run the river on the same world tile as the volcano.  It will run them adjacent, but never together.
The worldgen engine is willing to reroute every water feature / water flow in the entire 65x65 world to avoid doing that, so.. if it's possible, it's not possible using any method I have come up with or seen before.  Doesn't mean it's not possible, though.  :D

Thanks a lot for this ! I'll give it a go !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on January 21, 2021, 11:34:32 am
Hello. I'm trying to find a medium-sized or small world where there are
-mostly flat and low regions
-many evil and savage temperate biomes,
-few volcanoes
-deep caverns
-magma not close to the surface.


Ideally, I'd like to embark on a place where evil savage biome connects a good region. Or a evil, neutral and good all at once. Or a serene bordering terrifying.


Can you help me to generate that?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 21, 2021, 11:55:58 am
Quote from: Aelwen on January 21, 2021, 11:34:32 am
Hello. I'm trying to find a medium-sized or small world where there are mostly flat and low regions, many evil and savage temperate biomes, few volcanoes.
Ideally, I'd like to embark on a place where evil savage biome connects a benign region. Or a evil, neutral and good all at once.

Can you help me to generate that?
I think you need to refine your request a little bit:
- Few volcanoes: Firstly, it's ambiguous, as it might mean "more than one" or "definitely a small number". Secondly, if you don't want to embark on one, do you really care about them elsewhere?
- "Mostly flat": Again, do you care about the rest of the world, or are you looking for (completely optional or preferred?) flat embarks?
- Don't you care about neighbors, or did you just forget about them? This includes the presence/absence of necro towers.
- Do you have any requirements or preferences for the evil part of the embark (100% dead vegetation, reanimation, thralling, syndrome rain)?
- Minerals: Not mentioned, so does it mean you just want to roll with what happens to be present?
- Aquifers: Ditto.
- And, as usual, stuff I haven't thought of...
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on January 21, 2021, 12:11:11 pm
Ok, I'll redefine. The place of my embark should be:

- 4x4
- Temperate or warm
- Preferably completely flat (a low hill of  1-2 level in one corner is acceptable).
- Preferably scarce or moderate trees.
- At least with a brook.
- Preferably no goblins around, I don't care about necro towers though. Elves, dwarves, humans - as neighbors
- With an evil and high savage part of the embark (reanimation OR thralling,  syndrome rain - optional) and a good one (benign). The good part should be at least a half of the embark place, preferably more.  The evil can be just one small corner. Ideally, I'd like a part of terrifying and a part of serene or mirthful.
- OR a good biome on the evil reanimating ocean shore.
- Minerals: steel-friendly
- Deep or very deep soil
- 2-3 caverns, with or without water.
- Caverns should start at level 20+
- Aquifers: NO
- A lair of a mega beast not far from embark would be interesting too.

The world generally should be with many beasts. I hope one of megas will visit me.

Is it possible? I hope for your help.

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 21, 2021, 05:04:50 pm
Nothing in there should present a particular challenge, aside from the beasts/megabeasts tending to wipe out civs.  I'll see what I can come up with friday morning.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on January 22, 2021, 04:10:35 pm
I guess it wasn't so easy after all... Maybe someone could offer me some advice on what parameters to change in order to generate it?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 22, 2021, 06:10:21 pm
This world and embark matches most of your requirements, save two.  There are only a few megas/semi's, but you can adjust that as you wish, and the Dwarven Civ is Dead (not dying) with Human and Elf neighbors.
Other than that, the embark is split evenly three ways, and has reanimating Terrifying, Joyous Wilds, and Untamed Wilds, with a Spring & Brook, and is steel friendly.
As always, now that the geography/geology part is done, you can regenerate for different civs by randomizing those seeds.
As a bonus, the good and evil flora is quite dense, in this embark location. Lots of eyes, tendrils, bulbs, etc.
Spoiler: Aelwen1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on January 23, 2021, 04:53:40 am
Quote from: vjek on January 22, 2021, 06:10:21 pm
This world and embark matches most of your requirements, save two.  There are only a few megas/semi's, but you can adjust that as you wish, and the Dwarven Civ is Dead (not dying) with Human and Elf neighbors.
Other than that, the embark is split evenly three ways, and has reanimating Terrifying, Joyous Wilds, and Untamed Wilds, with a Spring & Brook, and is steel friendly.
As always, now that the geography/geology part is done, you can regenerate for different civs by randomizing those seeds.
As a bonus, the good and evil flora is quite dense, in this embark location. Lots of eyes, tendrils, bulbs, etc.
Spoiler: Aelwen1 (click to show/hide)


Thank you!

But why did you choose 17x17 dimensions?

In my game that world is constantly rejected.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 23, 2021, 02:38:36 pm
How much titans and forgotten beasts can I generate in world without crash?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: towerator on January 23, 2021, 06:00:05 pm
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 23, 2021, 02:38:36 pm
How much titans and forgotten beasts can I generate in world without crash?
I'd like to know as well, since I like my worlds with a lot of MBs, because they tend to run out quickly on small worlds.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 24, 2021, 04:20:20 am
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 23, 2021, 02:38:36 pm
How much titans and forgotten beasts can I generate in world without crash?
I'm not aware of the game crashing due to Titans (I'm not aware of any way to control the number of FBs apart from world size and the number of caverns). What happens is that they (as well as megabeasts) tend to kill off civs by razing their sites, with a lot of that happening immediately after world gen, as well as more of it over time, and as they tend to occasionally get killed they also expire over time (and megabeasts aren't good at finding mates to breed with [a bit like dorfs...]).

Thus, there is no absolute number, but a balancing act of how many races you require contact with, whether you require civs to be healthy or if it's OK for them to be on the brink of extinction, how long a history you want, etc. The most important factor, however, is how many world gen attempts you're willing to perform to get a desirable world (and embark site(s) within it).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 24, 2021, 07:22:42 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on January 24, 2021, 04:20:20 am
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 23, 2021, 02:38:36 pm
How much titans and forgotten beasts can I generate in world without crash?
I'm not aware of the game crashing due to Titans (I'm not aware of any way to control the number of FBs apart from world size and the number of caverns). What happens is that they (as well as megabeasts) tend to kill off civs by razing their sites, with a lot of that happening immediately after world gen, as well as more of it over time, and as they tend to occasionally get killed they also expire over time (and megabeasts aren't good at finding mates to breed with [a bit like dorfs...]).

Thus, there is no absolute number, but a balancing act of how many races you require contact with, whether you require civs to be healthy or if it's OK for them to be on the brink of extinction, how long a history you want, etc. The most important factor, however, is how many world gen attempts you're willing to perform to get a desirable world (and embark site(s) within it).
I tried pocket world with 1000 night trolls. It work if 2 years of worldgen, but crash if worldgen will be longer. 1000 titans crash even bigger worlds. My friend with better computer made world with 500 of all generateable creatures, because 1000 crashed his game even with medium world.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 24, 2021, 07:29:55 am
Have you filed a bug report on the bug tracker?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Iä! RIAKTOR! on January 24, 2021, 07:32:28 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on January 24, 2021, 07:29:55 am
Have you filed a bug report on the bug tracker?
No, I don't know what is direct bug and maybe someone report about this bug before me.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 24, 2021, 11:34:35 am
The bug tracker's search function is buggy, at least on some OS', but there are people able to find if a bug has been reported previously, so an occasional double report is a lot better than bugs "everybody knows about" that's not reported at all.

If I understand your description correctly, I'd file a report that said that this world gen (providing the advanced world gen parameters, including seeds) crashes every time (after testing that it actually does crash with those particular seeds with a freshly loaded DF [there have been cases in the past where the behavior differs between a fresh DF and one that's generated something else first, which is, in itself, a bug when it happens]). That would allow others to verify that it crashes on other OS' as well as on the one you use.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 25, 2021, 10:43:36 am
Quote from: Aelwen on January 23, 2021, 04:53:40 am
Thank you!

But why did you choose 17x17 dimensions?

In my game that world is constantly rejected.
That world generates properly, without rejections, in a vanilla 47.04 install (just tested it). 
I typically choose 17x17 so that all civs can reach each other as neighbors, as that's a common request.
If you're not using vanilla 47.04, all bets are off. :)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on January 27, 2021, 01:28:52 pm
Oh, yes, it was my fault. Everything is fine now.

Although my first fort died pretty quickly.  :o :-[
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: horribleflesheater on February 03, 2021, 02:17:22 am
Can I have some advice on generating a world with some nitpicky qualities for adventure mode? I'm sure not all of these can be controlled but, I wanted to generate a sort of medium sized danger world, with plenty of ruins and abandoned sites and swathes of evil biomes- but at least one human civilization and more than one populated town, and at least one of each other civilization. History short-medium
Some of the more nitpicky things:
is it possible to discourage civilizations from being neighbors? I prefer space between clumps of associated settlements.
Can I create a sinister, evil world without the inevitable goblin conquest creating a world of 75% goblins?
How can I set my parameters for maximum playability in adventure mode? It's a shame that worldgen will create very cool, sprawling towns and settlements that I can't visit due to FPS with massive populations.
Sorry if this seems simplistic, my understanding of the values in advanced worldgen is pretty limited

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 03, 2021, 04:53:32 am
With PSV worlds it's possible to mostly lock civs in place by separating them by terrain they can't build in, and if these barriers are very evil and very savage it works better still.

By repeatedly generating worlds you can get RNG situations where goblins don't dominate. If you change the raws so they start only on a particular (set of) terrain you can use separation corridors to mostly keep them from expanding too much.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 03, 2021, 10:51:47 am
Quote from: horribleflesheater on February 03, 2021, 02:17:22 am
...
Can I create a sinister, evil world without the inevitable goblin conquest creating a world of 75% goblins?
...
For this one requirement in particular, I have found limiting the Number of Demon Types to exactly 2 tends to make Goblins less 'world dominating' while still allowing their civ creation.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: horribleflesheater on February 04, 2021, 04:17:15 pm
That worked far faster and more effectively than generating over and over hoping they're locked in the ice sheets, thanks!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Crystal on February 12, 2021, 05:37:28 am
I need a bit of help generating a particular world. I am trying to get one with all civs including a tower on the embark screen. Along with the fort being located in a heavily forested area with deep metals, shallow metals, flux layer, sand, clay, fire clay, and very deep soil. Additionally, it should have a magma pipe close to the surface with a river near by and the cavern at least 25 away from the surface. Savagery would be preferred with untamed wilds having a higher priority over good/evil areas, but it is not a focus of mine. Maybe just so that good regions are in the world so I can trade for some items from those areas, but its fine if it isn't.

Hardest part I found is trying to generate enough towers to find a location. I bumped up the secrets but that didnt really seem to change much and I mostly only end up with around 1 to 3 towers. The other one was trying to find a magma tube without having to embark. Don't remember how to look for that. I did try bumping up the rainfall and drainage to generate more forests but I seem to be getting more shrub lands instead.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 12, 2021, 11:43:32 am
Longer history -> more towers, and many human civs tends to cause human vs human wars that drives people to search for immortality. The DFHack Embark Assistant plugin allows you to search for magma pipes (as well as many of the other criteria you're looking for).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: BeardedShrimp on February 15, 2021, 01:06:38 pm
For v0.47.05+

The simple goal was to generate a small world where 1) no civ was isolated on their own little island, 2) goblins have not overtaken the world in population, and 3) necromancer towers were present but not literally everywhere. Humans dominating the world's population was not surprising. The unexpected part was a giant Joyous Wilds Sand Desert+Badlands smack next to Haunted and Terrifying Temperate Grassland regions in the east:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Worldgen Paramters:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: javascripter on February 20, 2021, 07:31:53 am
I'm very late to the discussion and my addition is also more relevant to fortress mode and probably known about, but I figured I'd share anyway incase either it isn't known about or the issues I have with it are known better than I know them.

I've been annoyed for a while that no worldpainter lets me paint good/evil.
I found by using the "desired good/evil tiles in small/medium/large subregion" combined with the world painter (I guess you call PSV here) it was fairly easy to make a world with lots of evil while actually being able to place some controllable civilizations. (for example, evil tiles in small subregion -> max; evil tiles in medium subregion -> min)

I found water and high mountained (filled in triangle) both block civilization influence, while low mountains (open triangle) seem to not, and that there is still a lot of variance in the maps even if I set all variances to none. This made larger savannas and grasslands often have wrong type of terrain in the intended medium region, which then became a small region and went evil, so I would be interested if anyone knows how much variance there can be with variance turned off (and orthographic precipitation turned off); I also found marshes and swamps would be considered in the same regions, and lower and higher mountains would be considered the same region, as well as a volcano on a 100 elevation tile would join the same region.
I also found rivers would sometimes split an area intended to be a medium subregion, sometimes this would even happen for 2xsomething areas.
Also, I got some intermittent flooding, it seemed to get better if I added regular tiles with elevation below 100, or if I reduced the height of mountains, but i'm not clear on how corelated those were or how near the water needs to be.

Anyway, I wanted volcano+mountain+river+swamp+evil+savage+nearby towers+nearby goblins+if possible other nearby civilizations, and here is the parameters I used for that: (goblin raws were also modifies to only spawn on deserts, though I think I would need to up the map size to prevent dieoff of non-goblins by goblin causes; I'm not sure how much the high savagery or war between human/dwarf (or human/human and dwarf/dwarf) affects the dieoff rate; I suppose with a larger map I could spread out races so their influnce overlapped in a small area and then copy that and just check the small area, but living fortresses wasn't important for me, I would have even preferred a totally dead race but I guess that doesn't really happen right now.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 20, 2021, 08:46:34 am
You can't paint good/evil because it's assigned by DF internally during world gen. The reason is probably because good/evil are region features (recently modified by evil spreading from sources, but that's probably more of a temporary hack than a "real" implementation, as spheres will require a new framework during the map rewrite anyway), and regions are build from the other primitive parameters that are available (salinity isn't available either, but salty/brackish/fresh doesn't affect region type). If you define primitive parameters in neighboring tiles that result in the same region type they join up to form a single region.
Evilness can be hacked during/after world gen, but that's the current extent. It would be possible to have a script interrupt world gen immediately after assignment of evilness to override those values, but it's quite possible DF doesn't detect that and you'd have to hack the flora/fauna of the region as well to make it work.
As you say, a PSV world allows you to paint what becomes regions such that you can manually split them into good/neutral/evil based on size to a decent degree.

Variance shouldn't have any effect on a fully defined PSV world. However, if you specify only some of the parameters and let DF generate the others it will do so (and I generally use fully defined PSV world, so I don't know much about how the hybrid approach works).

The wiki should be able to tell you which biomes belong to the same region type. "Hills" and "Grassland" have the same biomes (savanna, etc.), while all the other biomes are present in a single region type only.

A volcano is a "feature" that exists within a tile, and so isn't tied to any particular region type, even if the cone may rise to mountain elevations.

Rivers shouldn't split regions, as they appear "on top" (they're "features"). I suspect the cases you've seen are grassland/hill regions (they differ only by Drainage).

Never seen any flooding (although someone recently said that happened, although it wasn't verified as far as I've seen). Lake formation happens during world gen and can't be controlled by PSVs, though. Elevation below 100 results in ocean tiles (which can result in very small oceans...), not lakes.

A major civ killing factor is megabeast/titan count. They tend to stomp out a lot of civs while they only have a single site if you have a lot of them.

Larger maps typically have more civs on them, but more civs means there's a greater chance some survive somewhere, so reducing the number of civs reduces the chance/risk of them being near each other.

You probably don't want to play a truly dead civ, as those a badly bugged: No travel possible, so no raiding. Your civ won't found sites (naturally), but you can't conquer any either, so you're relying on sites to spontaneously tie themselves to you for those nobles. If you lose your expedition leader it won't be replaced, which locks out a lot of functionality if that happens, but I think getting a mayor will get past that problem (there should be a new one elected the next summer).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: javascripter on February 20, 2021, 11:10:13 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on February 20, 2021, 08:46:34 am
You can't paint good/evil because it's assigned by DF internally during world gen.
I know this, but it still has bothered me a bit


Quote
Variance shouldn't have any effect on a fully defined PSV world. However, if you specify only some of the parameters and let DF generate the others it will do so (and I generally use fully defined PSV world, so I don't know much about how the hybrid approach works).

It seems i was incorrect here, the symbol changes for savanna/grassland, but it creates one big region with different symbols. It also seems regions depend on temperature somehow though and I left temperature to be randomly generated, which may also have been an effect, I guess in the future I should just set it to what I want everywhere.

Quote
The wiki should be able to tell you which biomes belong to the same region type. "Hills" and "Grassland" have the same biomes (savanna, etc.), while all the other biomes are present in a single region type only.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that hilly savanna and hilly grassland become the same region and savanna and grassland become the same region but it is not
my own testing tells me that broadleaf forest and conifer forest also become same region, as well as marsh and swamp becoming same region, so wiki isn't totally accurate but not especially difficult to figure it out (at least without rivers causing problems)

test world here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe I should do some more testing and put results to the wiki, since right now it has no information about regions and some more testing on this wouldn't be that much work.

Quote

A volcano is a "feature" that exists within a tile, and so isn't tied to any particular region type, even if the cone may rise to mountain elevations.


in the lower right corner of the previous test I have two 3x5 blocks of mountains separated by a 1 wide strip of deserts with 100 volcanism; I have it so only medium regions will go evil and those mountains go evil, while if I change the volcanism to 0 they don't.

Quote

Rivers shouldn't split regions, as they appear "on top" (they're "features"). I suspect the cases you've seen are grassland/hill regions (they differ only by Drainage).


After some more testing, I seem to be incorrect here as well, that must have been temperature effects then, or possibly flooding, not sure.

Quote

Never seen any flooding (although someone recently said that happened, although it wasn't verified as far as I've seen). Lake formation happens during world gen and can't be controlled by PSVs, though. Elevation below 100 results in ocean tiles (which can result in very small oceans...), not lakes.

I suspect the flooding and lakes are the same things, but they seem to be somewhat controllable by elevation modification for example, or for example by rivers; here is what my worldpainter screen looks like:

(https://ibb.co/S5hf4BW) (https://ibb.co/S5hf4BW incase img tag doesn't work)

If I generate this world with 800 rivers, I sometimes get some small lakes:

(https://ibb.co/hsm8DHH) (https://ibb.co/hsm8DHH incase img tag doesn't work)

But if I generate with 0 rivers I get a huge lake:

(https://ibb.co/Zg0WpPR) (https://ibb.co/Zg0WpPR incase img tag doesn't work)


I'm not sure but it also seems to be based on relative elevation, with a similar setup but larger map I was having problems with huge portions of the map becoming lakes, but by putting down a few sea tiles it seemed to prevent the lakes from showing up. I think reducing the sizes of the peaks helped as well, though I don't remember for sure and the reason I did that was because it made it must more likely for rivers to be near the volcano mountains.


Quote
You probably don't want to play a truly dead civ, as those a badly bugged: No travel possible, so no raiding. Your civ won't found sites (naturally), but you can't conquer any either, so you're relying on sites to spontaneously tie themselves to you for those nobles. If you lose your expedition leader it won't be replaced, which locks out a lot of functionality if that happens, but I think getting a mayor will get past that problem (there should be a new one elected the next summer).
not all those are problems for me, but also didn't realize so many bugs, and not a huge deal though, dying civilization is fine
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 20, 2021, 12:20:55 pm
Temperature affects whether it's tropical, temperate, or tundra, although it's only directly tied to temperature if the world doesn't have poles, otherwise tropical/temperate is controlled by latitude with temperature controlling the result in the subtropical zone.

The symbols generated for tiles is the one for a tree that's present there, while I'd prefer to see something representing the biome. The tree selected can differ for different tiles within the same biome.

You understood me correctly in the first part, but not the second. All kinds of forests belong to the Jungle region type, all kinds of ocean to the Ocean one, all kinds of wetlands to the Swamp one. All kinds of mostly open grass dominated terrain end up as either Hills or Grassland, depending on Drainage, so those to region types contain exactly the same sets of biomes. Unless I've missed one, the rest of the region types have a single biome in them.

Changing Volcanism probably scrambles the RNG, resulting in different results. The evilness settings for small/medium/large regions are not absolute, although they can be made mostly so by ensuring the requested number of tiles of that type in that kind of region exceeds the actual number of tiles, but it still doesn't give you full control.

Again, changing the number of rivers scrambles the RNG, but I believe lakes are generated to be connected to rivers in a somewhat logical way, so I would guess you might be able to guide river formation (and hence lake formation) to some extent by generating elevations such that there are clear valleys for rivers. However, I'd expect the result to be very much "somewhat".
Good to know that you mean lakes when talking about flooding. The other post about talked about oceans flooding land.

Any kind of map manipulation scrambles the associated RNG(s), so you'd need to make a large number of tests to draw any conclusions about effects from map changes as opposed from just getting a different result from using the RNG sequence differently.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: javascripter on February 20, 2021, 02:18:02 pm
Quote from: PatrikLundell on February 20, 2021, 12:20:55 pm

The symbols generated for tiles is the one for a tree that's present there, while I'd prefer to see something representing the biome. The tree selected can differ for different tiles within the same biome.


I definitely agree with that but thats the way the game is; and you got the idea anyway

Quote
You understood me correctly in the first part, but not the second. All kinds of forests belong to the Jungle region type, all kinds of ocean to the Ocean one, all kinds of wetlands to the Swamp one. All kinds of mostly open grass dominated terrain end up as either Hills or Grassland, depending on Drainage, so those to region types contain exactly the same sets of biomes. Unless I've missed one, the rest of the region types have a single biome in them.

In that case information on biomes from wiki is basically just incomplete, though fairly easy to understand; I will add to advanced world gen though since it definitely should be there.


Quote
Changing Volcanism probably scrambles the RNG, resulting in different results. The evilness settings for small/medium/large regions are not absolute, although they can be made mostly so by ensuring the requested number of tiles of that type in that kind of region exceeds the actual number of tiles, but it still doesn't give you full control.

Still, if I ask for maximum evil tiles in medium regions and no evil tiles in small/large regions it is pretty clear anything evil must be a medium region.
if I make two areas of mountains both ~15-20 tiles and connect them with a definitely non-mountain tile and they always (as far as I've seen) become evil if that tile is a volcano, but not if it isn't a volcano (in which case dwarf civilizations are placed at difference places depending on the run for example) then it seems fairly unlikely to be random, unless I've gotten incredibly unlikely occurances with noncontiguous areas counting as regions sometimes it seems more likely that volcano tiles count as mountain tiles for the purposes of regions

another test I did, if you generate this world the volcano switches between the sides between each attempt to generate, but the side with the volcano is always the evil one:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Quote
Again, changing the number of rivers scrambles the RNG, but I believe lakes are generated to be connected to rivers in a somewhat logical way, so I would guess you might be able to guide river formation (and hence lake formation) to some extent by generating elevations such that there are clear valleys for rivers. However, I'd expect the result to be very much "somewhat".
Good to know that you mean lakes when talking about flooding. The other post about talked about oceans flooding land.
I didn't know what I meant, I just knew with a map like that it was regularly covering areas with water and then I aborted and tried again
eventually I decided maybe it was simulating that water couldn't flow anywhere and would pool there and tested some things to get rid of it and they sort of worked (still not exactly as I expected, but I don't know the physics/geology very well in real life and dwarf fortress physics are wonky sometimes)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on February 20, 2021, 06:30:20 pm
I wouldn't be shocked if DF didn't always respect the elevation PSV value if it plonks down a volcano in a tile, in particular if that tile was surrounded by mountain tiles on at least two (out of 4 perpendicular) sides.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: javascripter on February 20, 2021, 11:36:28 pm
Given that at least with one generated world that tile is totally covered with mountains, that seems to be what is happening.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dushan on March 19, 2021, 08:32:45 am
Dont know how hard this would be, but im looking for a sand desert with a major river waterfall. 

Kinda like a Death Valley/Nile/Niagara falls type thing.

If you can tell me how to generate a desert world with rivers im willing to look around for a Embark site myself. 

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 19, 2021, 11:19:21 am
This is what I can offer quickly, Dushan.
It's likely not exactly what you're looking for, but gives you an idea of a possible path forward..
Spoiler: desert-waterfall (click to show/hide)
An explanation..
A worldgen like this strongly encourages the path of a river to follow a predetermined course.  A path that guarantees a certain length, that, coupled with a predictable rate of widening, allows you to get a major river to follow a certain course through the world.
You can do the same thing with smaller worlds, but the results are you get a less wide river.
In this example above, a waterfall is falling into a major river.  Rather than a major river being the waterfall.
However, it does at least show you how to generate, predictably, a major river in a desert.  8)
The tributaries in this world all feed the main river with 99 Rain.  The major river itself has a rainfall value of 2, along it's path.  You can see this by examining the PS_RF part of the worldgen pre-set values.

As far as artificially creating actual waterfalls (as in, creating & showing the waterfall icon on the embark interface, predictably) I haven't been successful in that endeavor with up to a painted 50Z drop in elevation along a river path.  More elevation drop may be required, or it simply may not be possible with pre-set values.  I'm not sure, yet.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 20, 2021, 03:25:29 pm
Ok Dushan, this is both absurd and hilarious to me, but.. turns out, it's possible to contrive this situation.

A method is: create an artificial world with two major rivers in it (33x33 or larger required, afaik) with different elevations. (I used 299 and 100 for maximum disparity)
Then you run those two major rivers into each other, adjacent to an ocean elevation of 1.
What happens is, and this is the kind of absurd/buggy part, it will run the higher elevation river below the lower elevation river, where they meet.
So, to be extremely clear, what I've got here is two major rivers:
 One approaching from the north being elevation 299.
 One running west to east being elevation 100.
In the tile where they meet, the north river (elevation 299) is lower than the west->east river (elevation 100).  ???
The 100 elevation river is the waterfall, flowing off a cliff, down into the elevation 299 river.
I have no logical explanation, but it accomplishes what you were looking for, that is, a major river waterfall in a desert biome. (badlands in this embark, but that's just altering drainage)

In this case, it's one major river running into another major river, but I'm sure you could tweak it, if desired, to be different.  As well, the seeds aren't anything special, you can remove them, and it will likely re-gen without rejections or problems.
Here's the details..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also found this 2x1 embark, when refining the requirements/limits of this generation method..
(https://i.postimg.cc/xcXxw3Sh/stonesense-major-river-waterfall-corner.png) (https://postimg.cc/xcXxw3Sh)
Spoiler: major river waterfall corner (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: orius on March 21, 2021, 12:10:07 pm
That first one must be absolute murder on FPS.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 21, 2021, 02:31:25 pm
Doesn't seem too bad on FPS so far, in a 2x2, at least.
I ran this one;
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hr9L2zyq/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/Hr9L2zyq)
this morning for a few in-game months, and it stayed at max FPS (200 in my case) throughout.
That's a max-width major river.  It's one embark tile wide, falling ~40Z, so half the 2x2 is non-stop moving water.
YMMV, of course.  :D  There's no doubt, that much moving water simulation is adding to the rendering/display load.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 25, 2021, 02:34:18 pm
Anticipating the inevitable requests of "Hey, can you get that with a volcano?"..  8)
Here's a 3x3 embark with a max-width major river 30Z waterfall, with a volcano.
Steel friendly, sand, clay, partial aquifer, HFS.
Spoiler: major_river-waterfall-volcano (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: orius on March 26, 2021, 10:01:31 am
Interesting map, but that river kicked my FPS down to 40 at embark.

How do you get Stonesense to show the whole 3x3?  I've been fiddling with the init settings, but I haven't been able to make it display more than a 2x2.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 26, 2021, 10:25:21 am
Quote from: orius on March 26, 2021, 10:01:31 am
Interesting map, but that river kicked my FPS down to 40 at embark.

How do you get Stonesense to show the whole 3x3?  I've been fiddling with the init settings, but I haven't been able to make it display more than a 2x2.
Control-arrow keys adjusts the rendering area, in stonesense, ctrl-shift-F5 produces a complete screenshot of the entire defined area, zoom (,/.) determines the output resolution of the .png.
After the waterfall finishes it's first flow/fall, my FPS is steady at 197/200 in that 3x3.  As always, YMMV.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MystRunner on April 05, 2021, 06:43:42 pm
Guess I'll ask this here. I've been trying to cook  up a new world. specifically a more swampy world with hopefully some nice mostly flat swamps. I'm fairly new to the advanced parameters and would just like some direction on what I might change in it to get what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 05, 2021, 07:40:48 pm
The short answer to swamps is 100 rain and 0 drain.  That will produce swamps throughout the world.
Naturally, you can get close with a range of rain and drain.  Specifically, as per this biome distribution (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/2/2e/DF_Biome_Distribution.png) from the wiki, 33-100 rain in conjunction with 0-32 drain will produce marshes and swamps.
If you want an example world that is 99% swamp, let me know and I'll reply with a set of worldgen parameters that meet that criteria.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: MystRunner on April 05, 2021, 08:29:24 pm
Well I tried changing what I thought was a relevant areas and instead got a lot of rejections regarding elevation issues. This is the input data I put into the advanced paramiters.

   
Quote
[ELEVATION:1:400:1600:1600]
   [RAINFALL:33:100:400:400]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:400:400]
   [DRAINAGE:0:50:400:400]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:400:400]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:400:400]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 05, 2021, 10:08:42 pm
I took the default "Pocket Region" worldgen parameters in the advanced worldgen portion of DF and made the following adjustments:
(from the bottom up)
playable civs: 1
min number of _____ squares:  (set all these to None)
number of mountain caves: 0
number of non-mountain caves: 0
min/max natural cave size: 1
periodically erode: No
Orographic: no
desired river start post-erosion: none
min river start pre-erosion: none
desired good/evil in small: None
max megabeast caves: no beasts
max semi-megabest caves: no beasts
min volcano number: 0
min partial edge oceans: none
min mountain peak: none
min rain: 33
max drain: 32

It produced this, with zero rejections:
Spoiler: swamp-land (click to show/hide)
Hopefully that helps.  It's basically a world with a tiny bit of frozen north pole, a huge swamp, a tiny bit of ocean, and some mountains.
This can be refined further to produce a completely flat world that is entirely swamp except for one mountain tile, if desired.
Of course you can remove the seeds and generate as many worlds as you wish.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on April 19, 2021, 09:20:01 am
Could you help me to find an embark like this?

1. 4x4 flat neutral or good place on the beach of the reanimating evil ocean/lake (directly bordering it). Like a small peaceful oasis among the danger.
2. Surrounded by evil reanimating lands from 2-3 sides. So reanimated animals may roam in from the edge.
3. Goblins as neighbors are preferable, other civilizations nearby are good too. Dwarf civilization NOT EXTINCT.
4. At least one level of caverns.
3  Deep soil (4 levels)
5. Biome doesn't matter (as long as it is flat)

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 19, 2021, 11:04:28 am
This embark location & world appears to match, I think:
Spoiler: aelwen (click to show/hide)
If not, let me know what isn't quite right, or describe each tile of the ideal 4x4 layout, by biome/feature.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on April 20, 2021, 10:48:00 am
Quote
If not, let me know what isn't quite right, or describe each tile of the ideal 4x4 layout, by biome/feature.

Thank you but it seems to me you created an evil embark itself.

I asked for a Good/Neutral 4x4 embark between the evil ocean/lake and some evil reanimating biome. Oasis. It is ok if one corner of the embark will be evil but it should be Mostly good/neutral.

Smth like this. I've tried multiple generations but still can't find smth similar. Either there is not such territory or there is too little soil  (I search for deep soil) or the civilization is dead. :-[
https://i.postimg.cc/3Js7VyMG/Tile.jpg
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on April 20, 2021, 12:25:56 pm
Ok, that's clear enough, Aelwen, but your second requirement of:

2. Surrounded by evil reanimating lands from 2-3 sides. So any caravan who will arrive will have to move through those lands.

To the best of my knowledge, if you don't have those evil/reanimating biomes included as part of the embark, the caravan will simply (most likely) arrive on the good/neutral 14/16 tiles of the embark area.
I mean, finding a mostly good/neutral 4x4 with one tile ocean and one tile evil isn't that big of a deal, but I don't think what you've drawn/described will achieve your 2nd goal?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on April 20, 2021, 01:01:48 pm
As vjek said, a caravan passing through evil terrain outside of the embark achieves nothing, as nothing actually interacts with the environment outside of the embark.
Caravans can arrive on evil tiles of an embark, but if most tiles are not evil the odds are against that (you can make constructions that block avenues of entrance, though), and they can't arrive on a coastal evil water tile in the water.
Also, you can get evil edges by having "incursions" of the biome of surrounding tiles to get the edges evil but the interior of the tiles non evil, but it's a lot of work to find these cases (it can be hacked immediately prior to embark, though).
However, passing through evil terrain doesn't do anything special unless you happen to get evil weather just when the caravan is entering or leaving, although undead critters entering through an evil edge can roam over the whole embark (i.e. not just the evil parts).

Perhaps this should be attacked from a different angle, namely what you want your embark to achieve and then work from there to figure out how to achieve that (or whether it can't be achieved with a reasonable effort).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on April 20, 2021, 05:13:26 pm
Quote
Caravans can arrive on evil tiles of an embark, but if most tiles are not evil the odds are against that (you can make constructions that block avenues of entrance, though), and they can't arrive on a coastal evil water tile in the water.

Oh, I actually wanted to get caravans arriving following by hungry zombies but even if it doesn't happen then being surrounded by evil biomes will lead to zombie animals and critters coming from the border, right?
It may give a lot of FUN.

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on April 21, 2021, 04:54:34 am
Sadly(?), you can't goad undead to follow caravans in on embark entry.

I don't know if visiting critter groups are governed by the edge tile biomes or whether "incursion" biome can result in critter groups from those biomes as well, although I would guess it's the former. I don't know if anyone has investigated this.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: orius on April 23, 2021, 12:28:22 pm
I've had small strips of evil biomes on the edges of some of my embarks, and they did generate occasional undead spawns.  None of them were in the current version of the game, but since map generation works more or less the same way it has since 31.25, I don't see any reason why it would have changed much.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on April 24, 2021, 03:49:25 am
Quote from: orius on April 23, 2021, 12:28:22 pm
I've had small strips of evil biomes on the edges of some of my embarks, and they did generate occasional undead spawns.  None of them were in the current version of the game, but since map generation works more or less the same way it has since 31.25, I don't see any reason why it would have changed much.
Interesting. And those weren't flying critters brought in by the buggy air biome (The biome in the air a bit above ground is the one of the world tile to the NW rather than that of the current world tile or the biomes at the ground level below)?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on April 25, 2021, 06:11:16 pm
I can also confirm getting non-flying undead on evil biome incursions with the 42.06 5 biomes gen, FWIW.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on April 26, 2021, 02:37:17 am
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on April 25, 2021, 06:11:16 pm
I can also confirm getting non-flying undead on evil biome incursions with the 42.06 5 biomes gen, FWIW.
Thanks. That's interesting (and potentially useful) info.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: orius on April 29, 2021, 12:36:08 pm
Quote from: PatrikLundell on April 24, 2021, 03:49:25 am
Quote from: orius on April 23, 2021, 12:28:22 pm
I've had small strips of evil biomes on the edges of some of my embarks, and they did generate occasional undead spawns.  None of them were in the current version of the game, but since map generation works more or less the same way it has since 31.25, I don't see any reason why it would have changed much.
Interesting. And those weren't flying critters brought in by the buggy air biome (The biome in the air a bit above ground is the one of the world tile to the NW rather than that of the current world tile or the biomes at the ground level below)?

Some were birds, but I don't remember if all were.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: bucketsofbuckets on April 29, 2021, 05:39:51 pm
I'm really happy with this one. It has everything needed for many forts to fail, one after another.

Need a laid-back, cozy, world, that's not too tall, not too wide, has easy to access mining locations, and beachfront spas staffed by zombie slaves? Then get ready to sign away your credit for a timeshare on luxurious Sil Sumun!

Spoiler: worldgen (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: census (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: satellite view (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: prospect (click to show/hide)

Bonus: Execrable Soot Sickness, a permanent attribute altering syndrome, from a creeping dust. Sadly, reanimation means giving up massive iron ore or stoneware. I love stoneware.

The whole world has nicely varied deposits all over, glows of royal purpleevil, is full of fairly flat embarks, and sports 3 towers. I eventually managed to even to keep all the main civilizations alive in the triple digits past the first century! This particular embark depth is on the short side, but in the typical range. No 150z to magma in my resort world. I'd have liked some big desert regions, but that, plus glaciers, plus temperate and warmer woodlands, plus goblins not conquering the world - at some point, you have to prospect and embark.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 01:57:47 pm
so... uhh... im kinda looking for an embark... hope this is enough info... and im kinda looking for a map with 1 of everything.. so i can test colors and stuff

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 06, 2021, 02:00:42 pm
That's plenty of info, sabata4, and what you're looking for should be reasonably straightforward to find.  I should have something today/tomorrow.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 06, 2021, 02:40:34 pm
Quote from: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 01:57:47 pm
so... uhh... im kinda looking for an embark... hope this is enough info... and im kinda looking for a map with 1 of everything.. so i can test colors and stuff

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I believe this meets all your requirements.
Spoiler: sabata4 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 02:48:40 pm
i... think that should do... kinda hoped there would be more rocs... but oh well..


EDIT: so... uhh i think im doing something wrong... considering the world seems to place volcano's a block down and left form what i saw in your image?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 06, 2021, 03:44:11 pm
For me, it generates without rejections on a default install of 47.05.  Are you seeing rejections?  And what platform are you using?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 03:52:38 pm
im not seeing rejections... but the map you have in that site location doesn't match the one thats generated for me... villages and rivers mostly...the volcano's turned out to be me miscounting...

and for platform? i assume you mean what OS im using? window
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 06, 2021, 04:03:19 pm
I just downloaded a fresh copy of 47.05, uncompressed & installed it, pasted the entire worldgen into world_gen.txt, generated the world on windows without rejections, and the embark is in the location indicated.  This is all working as expected & normal, from what I can see.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 04:17:50 pm
just got a fresh instal myself... and this one is diffrent from the first too? mind posting how you would use that world file? i have been posting it in the world-gen.txt file
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 06, 2021, 04:21:29 pm
take everything in my post, under the worldgen heading, from between:
[WORLD_GEN]
and the last line (in this case:)
[PS_VL:0:0:0:100:0:0:0:0:0:100:0:0:0:0:0:100:0:0:0:0:0:100:0:0:0:0:0:100:0:0:0:0:0]

and paste all those lines, inclusively, into data\init\world_gen.txt.  Save that file.

Start DF, go into advanced worldgen, select that parameter set, generate it, start playing, look for the Yellow X location indicated on the embark location screenshot, and change your embark size and location to match.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 06, 2021, 04:35:59 pm
so.. uhh... im doing all that.. and its not there? if it helps? the world name it gives me is "lecosethav econ". im honestly not sure whats going wrong?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on May 07, 2021, 07:45:30 am
Might be the issue in how since .44 rejectionless worlds don't always generate the same on different systems - i.e. linux and windows can match where windows and another windows don't.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 07, 2021, 08:58:18 am
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 07, 2021, 07:45:30 am
Might be the issue in how since .44 rejectionless worlds don't always generate the same on different systems - i.e. linux and windows can match where windows and another windows don't.
To eliminate this as a possibility, I (in the last few hours) installed a brand new copy of Windows 10 1709 (vs. my current/normal 20H2) into a brand new virtual machine on VMWare Workstation 16.x, on a completely different CPU architecture (i7-7740X vs Pentium Gold G5400), on a completely different physical machine, hosted in Linux, downloaded a fresh copy of 47.05, installed it, took the sabata4 worldgen, gen'd the world, and the entire world, embark location, embark features, names and embark are identical.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: sabata4 on May 09, 2021, 03:22:10 pm
seems the old standby of turning it off and on again worked. thanks again for the help
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 11, 2021, 03:13:18 am
alright so, a while back i asked for a large world with one large mountainrange. someone replied, i said thanks without clicking on the preview, and then went on with my day. later on though i found out that this wasnt really was looking for. is there any way to generate a naturalisic world with one very big mountainrange to one of the horizontal map edges?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 11, 2021, 08:22:10 am
It entirely depends on what you mean by 'naturalistic'  8)
As far as the game (and civ placement) goes, 300 elevation land counts as mountains.  So does 400 elevation.  So do peaks, and some volcanoes.
Generating large amounts of mountains is certainly possible, either using a pre-set elevation map, or relying on the game to generate them via procedural pseudo-randomness.

I'm not trying to be evasive, but if you can describe what 'naturalistic' means to you in this context, then we can work towards a solution.
Also, while large worlds do have some purpose with respect to creating some biomes, in Fortress mode game-play, the rest of the world isn't really doing a lot except contributing to slowing the game down and/or making saves take longer.  :D  World generation takes longer, and consequently, finding an embark can take longer, with larger worlds.
There's certainly nothing wrong with wanting a large world just because large worlds are cool, I'm just mentioning it because technically they're often not necessary in Fortress mode.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 11, 2021, 11:02:22 am
Quote from: vjek on May 11, 2021, 08:22:10 am
It entirely depends on what you mean by 'naturalistic'  8)
As far as the game (and civ placement) goes, 300 elevation land counts as mountains.  So does 400 elevation.  So do peaks, and some volcanoes.
Generating large amounts of mountains is certainly possible, either using a pre-set elevation map, or relying on the game to generate them via procedural pseudo-randomness.

I'm not trying to be evasive, but if you can describe what 'naturalistic' means to you in this context, then we can work towards a solution.
Also, while large worlds do have some purpose with respect to creating some biomes, in Fortress mode game-play, the rest of the world isn't really doing a lot except contributing to slowing the game down and/or making saves take longer.  :D  World generation takes longer, and consequently, finding an embark can take longer, with larger worlds.
There's certainly nothing wrong with wanting a large world just because large worlds are cool, I'm just mentioning it because technically they're often not necessary in Fortress mode.
well, the one that was given to me was a perfect circle with a mountain in the middle. when i say naturalistic i mean something that would be generated with default settings despite that not being true
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 11, 2021, 12:06:39 pm
Do you have an example Large Region parameter set you've been working on or with so far, GOTOTOTOE?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 11, 2021, 01:39:48 pm
Quote from: vjek on May 11, 2021, 12:06:39 pm
Do you have an example Large Region parameter set you've been working on or with so far, GOTOTOTOE?
aside from things like megabeasts, secrets, etc? not really, no
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 11, 2021, 01:55:06 pm
Would this be a fair estimate of what you would like the resulting world to look like, but in 257x257 size?
(https://i.postimg.cc/V5sybF1G/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/V5sybF1G)
If not, what specific features  (https://vjek.github.io/df_worldgen_parameters.html)would you like to see, instead or additionally?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 11, 2021, 05:55:46 pm
Quote from: vjek on May 11, 2021, 01:55:06 pm
Would this be a fair estimate of what you would like the resulting world to look like, but in 257x257 size?
(https://i.postimg.cc/V5sybF1G/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/V5sybF1G)
If not, what specific features  (https://vjek.github.io/df_worldgen_parameters.html)would you like to see, instead or additionally?
about right! an ocean would be cool though
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 13, 2021, 08:55:04 pm
What about this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VS5Dmh9C/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/VS5Dmh9C)
Our would you prefer the mountains across the bottom or top, exclusively?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on May 14, 2021, 08:04:35 pm
Damn, those are some serious rivers.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 15, 2021, 09:56:59 am
Quote from: vjek on May 13, 2021, 08:55:04 pm
What about this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VS5Dmh9C/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/VS5Dmh9C)
Our would you prefer the mountains across the bottom or top, exclusively?
bottom!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 15, 2021, 10:24:23 pm
This one looks like it matches..
Spoiler: gotototoe1 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 16, 2021, 01:03:30 pm
alright so, i modified the settings a bit to suit the world i was going for (rain shadows, erosion, entities, megabeasts, etc) as seen here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
which results in a world that always looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
aside from the obvious point of the mountainrange being in the middle, my biggest issue is that only three of the ninety civs end up being dwarven, each corresponding to one of the three dwarven entity types i modded in. any idea on how to stop this? is there some sort of limit on how many entities can inhabit a region? aside from that maybe some stray smaller mountainranges would be nice. thank u tho
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: orius on May 17, 2021, 01:00:05 pm
Well, you're generating 500 years of history, so you might have dwarf civs getting wiped out in that time.  Also, dwarves need mountains, so if those three civilizations take up a lot of space in that central mountain range, then other civilizations won't pop up.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: GOTOTOTOE on May 18, 2021, 01:10:05 pm
Quote from: orius on May 17, 2021, 01:00:05 pm
Well, you're generating 500 years of history, so you might have dwarf civs getting wiped out in that time.  Also, dwarves need mountains, so if those three civilizations take up a lot of space in that central mountain range, then other civilizations won't pop up.
im talking about entities thatre generated. when civs get wiped out they leave ruins typically
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on May 19, 2021, 05:15:12 am
Quote from: vjek on May 07, 2021, 08:58:18 am
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 07, 2021, 07:45:30 am
Might be the issue in how since .44 rejectionless worlds don't always generate the same on different systems - i.e. linux and windows can match where windows and another windows don't.
To eliminate this as a possibility, I (in the last few hours) installed a brand new copy of Windows 10 1709 (vs. my current/normal 20H2) into a brand new virtual machine on VMWare Workstation 16.x, on a completely different CPU architecture (i7-7740X vs Pentium Gold G5400), on a completely different physical machine, hosted in Linux, downloaded a fresh copy of 47.05, installed it, took the sabata4 worldgen, gen'd the world, and the entire world, embark location, embark features, names and embark are identical.
Thanks for your time.

FWIW, I tried the test on 47.05 64-bit linux version on 64-bit Lubuntu 16.04, and generated world Zûza Sûttu
Spoiler: Same geography, different history progression (click to show/hide)

Granted, that'd be still fitting of sabata's requirements, so that wasn't the case.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: feelotraveller on May 19, 2021, 05:07:08 pm
Memory is that the more significant shift that can happen is with the assignation of good/evil values to different regions rather than strictly geography (in the geological sense  ;)).  At one stage I thought I pinpointed the bifurcation to the step in worldgen where kobold caves get assigned. 

But it's all ancient history to me and very unlikely to ever be fixed.  More likely to get a map rewrite... in a couple of decades... if anything.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Immortal-D on May 19, 2021, 09:26:12 pm
Are there any conditions in WorldGen I can set to create more favorable conditions for a Tropical Savannah, specifically?  I'm getting a lot of Temperate, but no Tropical (mostly looking at shorelines near lakes & oceans).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on May 19, 2021, 10:27:19 pm
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 19, 2021, 05:15:12 am
...
FWIW, I tried the test on 47.05 64-bit linux version on 64-bit Lubuntu 16.04, and generated world Zûza Sûttu
Spoiler: Same geography, different history progression (click to show/hide)
This aligns with some past testing done in the previous 1 or 2 versions, cross platform world generation geography replicates without rejections, but history and naming is not identical.  Thanks for the testing, Fleeting Frames.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on May 20, 2021, 03:15:49 am
Quote from: Immortal-D on May 19, 2021, 09:26:12 pm
Are there any conditions in WorldGen I can set to create more favorable conditions for a Tropical Savannah, specifically?  I'm getting a lot of Temperate, but no Tropical (mostly looking at shorelines near lakes & oceans).
Having a pole would ensure that there's a tropical region, and making it a single pole rather than dual should more or less double its width. You should also be able to play with the meshes to gear them towards moderate rainfall (but not exclusively moderate if you want elves in your world, as they require forests).
If you're using PSVs you can set the parameters to generate savanna in the tropical region, or go without poles and make the temperature hot enough to cause the savanna to become tropical (I think the temperature required is 80, but won't swear on it).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Immortal-D on May 20, 2021, 09:58:06 am
Quote from: PatrikLundell on May 20, 2021, 03:15:49 am
Quote from: Immortal-D on May 19, 2021, 09:26:12 pm
Are there any conditions in WorldGen I can set to create more favorable conditions for a Tropical Savannah, specifically?  I'm getting a lot of Temperate, but no Tropical (mostly looking at shorelines near lakes & oceans).
Having a pole would ensure that there's a tropical region, and making it a single pole rather than dual should more or less double its width. You should also be able to play with the meshes to gear them towards moderate rainfall (but not exclusively moderate if you want elves in your world, as they require forests).
If you're using PSVs you can set the parameters to generate savanna in the tropical region, or go without poles and make the temperature hot enough to cause the savanna to become tropical (I think the temperature required is 80, but won't swear on it).
Good call on the Poles, right now I'm using AND/OR, so frequently get 2.  I'll try that before I start messing with meshes.  And of course, the oh so wonderful Region/Biome manipulators.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: RachelF42 on August 08, 2021, 06:06:16 pm
hi folks!

I am looking for an embark with the following features:
embark size: 5x5
savagery: not benign
at least some surface trees
a brook or river of some kind
biome temperature: temperate
sand
flux
iron ore
gold ore
candy
multiple dwarven civs
neighbor: goblins
neighbor: humans
neighbor: elves
any volcano
three caverns
biome alignment: at least some good

TYIA! :3

EDIT: oh and fwiw im playing on LNP v47.05
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 08, 2021, 07:15:59 pm
This matches your requested features in vanilla DF, RachelF42.  Mirthful Temperate Conifer Forest.  Flat volcano.  Brook on the southern edge.
Spoiler: rachef42_1 (click to show/hide)
I don't use LNP, so YMMV under those conditions, especially if LNP adjusts any raws or even some configuration files.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: blue emu on August 08, 2021, 08:24:09 pm
I'm looking for an embark suitable for a "Last Seven Dwarves in the World" run.

No Dwarven civs. Good minerals.

Other than that... I'm flexible.

Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 08, 2021, 09:38:05 pm
Here's one that you could use, I think.
Frozen ice world, dead dwarven civ, one dragon, 10k goblins, 9250'U surface temp.  No soil on the surface, just ice.
Everything you need (soil, seeds, plants, wood, water) must be obtained/used from the cavern, and exists in this specific embark location.  Candy is present, as are clowns.
Whatever non-metal/non-stone items you bring will be damaged/destroyed by cold, although animals will survive long enough to be brought underground, if you're quick enough.
17Z to magma from the surface.
Spoiler: blue_emu_cold (click to show/hide)
If you're looking for a goal, using magma to heat the surface enough to build above ground might be challenging.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: RachelF42 on August 09, 2021, 12:28:37 pm
Quote from: vjek on August 08, 2021, 07:15:59 pm
This matches your requested features in vanilla DF, RachelF42.  Mirthful Temperate Conifer Forest.  Flat volcano.  Brook on the southern edge.
Spoiler: rachef42_1 (click to show/hide)
I don't use LNP, so YMMV under those conditions, especially if LNP adjusts any raws or even some configuration files.

exactly as you described under LNP as well, this'll work nicely, tysm!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Schmaven on September 06, 2021, 07:09:03 pm
I wanted to have some options for water projects, and created a world with 115 matching tiles with 30+ Z waterfalls, iron and flux.  But I forgot to make some changes to the raws before generating it.  The second generation resulted in 189 matches for the same.  I expect similar results will continue with further generations.  In case anyone is looking for waterfalls, note that I also changed the caverns and mineral density.  Caverns should be more expansive large chambers than normal, and the high mineral frequency bogs down world generation a bit.  I also added some additional buffer layers between the caverns to have more room to work with.  It's a slightly warmer world than normal, as I didn't want to deal with ice jamming up the flows. 

Spoiler: World Map (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Typical embark via Armok Vision (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Parameters (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: x0reset on October 12, 2021, 06:38:39 pm
I am looking for an embark with the following features:
world size: 33x33
embark size: 3x3
100% flat
savagery: calm
a complete heavy aquifer
biome temperature: warm
sand
flux
iron ore
metal ore
lignite/coal
gold ore
candy
living dwarven civ
neighbor: goblins
neighbor: humans
neighbor: elves
neighbors: many towers
200 years of history
one cavern
biome alignment: 100% good

I need exactly one layer of heavy aquifer with two layers of soil or sand above it.

Been trying to generate this for a while.  I'm hopeful the wizards here might be able to help.

Thanks!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 12, 2021, 08:07:09 pm
Everything except exactly 2-2/shallow soil with a heavy aquifer is pretty straightforward to generate.
Would you accept 3-3 soil and/or a light aquifer?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: x0reset on October 12, 2021, 08:12:03 pm
Sure, I can make 2-3 layers of soil or sand work.

Need exactly one layer of heavy aquifer for the mega project though. =(
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 12, 2021, 08:23:20 pm
Hm hm.  Well, that will require some experimentation, then.

Here's what I found so far, it's 3 layers of sand, the third layer is the aquifer, but it's all light aquifer.
The rest of the requirements match.    5 towers, serene, warm, civs, geology, etc.
I'll investigate what is required to reliably generate heavy aquifers and see if I can find something better.
Spoiler: x0reset1 (click to show/hide)
EDIT:
Ok, so I've determined that you get exactly ~zero heavy aquifers unless you have many dramatic shifts in drainage on the map.  If an entire region is the same drainage (at least, in the PSV 33x33's I've been testing with), having only two other region edges meet with differing drainage isn't enough.  Knowing this will help, definitely.  I should have something that matches soon.
See how this one works for you, x0reset. I think it meets all your requirements, although I'm not 100% sure on the soil levels and heavy aquifer. They're present, I'm just not sure if it's under the yellow sand or the black sand..
Spoiler: x0reset3 (click to show/hide)
Even if it's just close, at least you'll know it's possible without too much effort.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: x0reset on October 13, 2021, 10:20:25 am
Perfect!

Thanks vjek, you're amazing.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Fleeting Frames on October 16, 2021, 07:31:57 am
Bit late, but heavy aquifers should be generated when your drainage % 20 == 7, that is when your drainage is 7/27/47/67/87 according to Toady.

Incidentally, this means that hilly rocky wastelands should never have heavy aquifers (50 to 65 drainage).
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on October 16, 2021, 02:33:07 pm
With PerfectworldDF you can set the sea level at a different height to get more or less land. Is there a way to do that with just DF's world generation settings?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 16, 2021, 03:13:50 pm
Quote from: TheFlame52 on October 16, 2021, 02:33:07 pm
With PerfectworldDF you can set the sea level at a different height to get more or less land. Is there a way to do that with just DF's world generation settings?
Afaik that utility isn't doing anything 'special' in the sense of using values out of bounds or invalid values.
As such, it's just setting values that anyone can set via the Preset Field Values (p) interface in the Advanced Worldgen interface.

However, getting more or less ocean or land is pretty straightforward in default/vanilla DF.
Using this worldgen as an example..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And looking at this line in particular:
Code: [Select]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:0:0:1]which is modified in the Advanced Worldgen interface via these 6 lines:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4NdgpZQ/image.png)
You can adjust how much land/water is generated very easily.
If you set the 0-20 Elevation Weighted Range to 2, and leave the Elevation Weighted Range (80-100) at 1, you'll get more water.
If you leave the 0-20 Elevation Weighted Range to 1, and set the Elevation Weighted Range (80-100) to 2, you'll get more land.
Beyond that, it's just whatever limits you want to impose on the world elevation. 
If you don't have any elevation values below 100, you won't get any oceans.  But you can get lakes.
If you don't have any elevation values above 99, you won't get any land.

If you take that worldgen above and generate it a few times, typically (although not every time) you'll see roughly the same amount of land as water.  Not always, but typically.
If you use the 2/1 or 1/2 Weighted ranges, you'll typically see more ocean than land, and more land than ocean.  Again, typically.

If any of the above is unclear, just say so, and I'll be happy to elaborate further based on what I've learned using the DF advanced worldgen interface.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on October 16, 2021, 06:06:38 pm
Ah, thank you. It's pretty simple when you put it that way! I appreciate the fact that this is a thread where you basically just find people the worlds they want.

EDIT: I had to set the minimum low elevation areas a lot lower in order to get it to generate without rejections, but my giant continuous continent is going just fine.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Immortal-D on October 23, 2021, 01:12:30 pm
Query: If an ocean is only 1 zed deep (still 7/7), can it still spawn critters besides fish? (shark, whale, etc.).  My embark covers the first tiles where ocean is adjacent to land.  The deeper ocean begins, frustratingly, on the next world segment over, so I have no way to cover both deep ocean and enough land for building.  I'm considering using the Region Manipulator plugin to make the ocean tiles deeper, but elevation changes at the border of regions (especially with any water) are always risky.

Edit: Just occurred to me that I could theoretically make the ocean deeper myself (ingame), but I don't know if doing that pre-embark would affect the spawns.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: chaotic skies on October 27, 2021, 02:06:50 pm
Looking for a world with (theoretically) simple requirements.

Spoiler: requrest (click to show/hide)

I've spent ages taking guesses at what would make a good combo for this and can't figure it out - you guys seem like you know what you're doing so I'd love the help!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 27, 2021, 02:14:59 pm
Quote from: chaotic skies on October 27, 2021, 02:06:50 pm
Looking for a world with (theoretically) simple requirements.

Spoiler: requrest (click to show/hide)

I've spent ages taking guesses at what would make a good combo for this and can't figure it out - you guys seem like you know what you're doing so I'd love the help!
I was looking at your other thread, working on this a little bit, and here's my impressions so far.
Heavy aquifers and volcanos don't appear to want to be together in the same tile.  :D
However, I did find a 2x3 that does have a heavy aquifer in the very south edge (152 tiles worth) so if that' sufficient, you're set.
If not, you can clear those seeds, make adjustments as you wish, and that's the best I have to offer at the moment.
You'll probably want to make adjustments anyway to have more civs, but ideally, that should be possible without messing with that embark geology, or at least you know whatever you can come up with otherwise, you can get a heavy aquifer at least as close as three tiles from the volcano.
Spoiler: chaotic_skies (click to show/hide)
Oh, and... would cavern water be ok, instead of a heavy aquifer, optionally?
EDIT: Ok, found a better one, possibly.
This embark (southeast volcano, 3x3 with it in the middle) has a heavy aquifer adjacent, as in touching, the wall of the volcano tube.
Unfortunately.. and I have to say I don't see this very often, this is an empty lava tube.  It's a volcano, but, the volcano only comes up to the caverns, then it's an empty tube to the surface.
So that might not be so great, but, it does show that it is possible to have heavy aquifer tiles adjacent to the obsidian wall of the volcano.
Spoiler: chaoctic_skies2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: chaotic skies on October 27, 2021, 03:44:36 pm
Quote from: vjek on October 27, 2021, 02:14:59 pm
<snip>

As far as cavern water - I'll admit I'm not super experienced working with it, so there's potential that it would function well enough for the larger-scale projects I'm hoping to work on. I'm looking at a lot of obsidian creation and various waterfalls/showers/etc., so it certainly could work. My primary concerns are the power required to pump up enough water and lag from generating that power.

The empty lava tube is interesting for entirely different reasons and I'm probably going to yoink it for fun.

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 27, 2021, 03:51:41 pm
Ok, so, figured out why the tube was empty (no bottom layer), and the same worldgen with the bottom layer enabled has a full lava tube to the surface, and a heavy aquifer adjacent to the volcano tube:
Spoiler: chaotic_skies3 (click to show/hide)
Again, southeast corner volcano embark, 3x3 with the volcano in the middle.
EDIT:
This one is better. :)  A surface volcano pretty much surrounded in heavy aquifer (Z 135/136).  Same SE corner 3x3 surrounding the volcano embark location.
Spoiler: chaotic_skies4 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: chaotic skies on October 28, 2021, 10:07:36 am
You, my friend, are a magician and a saint.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 29, 2021, 11:20:32 am
A topic or question that comes up quite often is the differences between a live civ, dying civ, and dead civ.
These are covered in the wiki  (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Civilization)and in threads like this, but I haven't seen a recent example of the same geology/world seed producing a live civ and a dead civ, with the other three seeds being distinct.
So, here's that.
Spoiler: Live Civ (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dead Civ (click to show/hide)
Of particular note is that the [SEED:] values are identical, while the [HISTORY_SEED:],[NAME_SEED:],[CREATURE_SEED:] are completely different, between the two, as per:
:diff livegen.txt deadgen.txt
4c4
<       [TITLE:EXAMPLE_LIVE_CIV]
---
>       [TITLE:EXAMPLE_DEAD_CIV]
6,8c6,8
<       [HISTORY_SEED:MggUWomY8y0kKMaAKCqo]
<       [NAME_SEED:o4iEYMq8QiOiIOsQIuMw]
<       [CREATURE_SEED:u40YW2w204c2YaM4kaIQ]
---
>       [HISTORY_SEED:gsLK9jpwN0y8ZsuEvjTf]
>       [NAME_SEED:5xzP5LPadqwK8wl2YPIR]
>       [CREATURE_SEED:ItE9wRLnCOXK6Cw1UF8I]
and that all other lines/parameters in each worldgen are identical.
Each world has Goblin, Elf, and Human neighbors available throughout, in any location.

However, if you wanted to play in either version of this world, this is a pretty good embark location, imo:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: candlebury on November 10, 2021, 12:40:00 pm
Anyone has a map with particularily tall caverns or sea cliffs?

Would like to try out a cavern-cliff side fort for a change
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 10, 2021, 02:42:01 pm
When you say sea cliffs, do you mean something like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/gwR6Fkx3/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/gwR6Fkx3)
or something else?

The reason I ask is, some people mean perfectly vertical, with no ramps of any kind, for a certain number of Z-Levels, (10,20,50) minimum.
Or they mean the cliffs drop directly into the water, with no beach.
The challenge, often, is that while it's possible to get those, you also need a place to embark, and default DF won't permit embarks onto pure ocean and/or pure mountain, and/or an exclusive combination of the two.
It's not an impossible situation by any means, just trying to get a better idea of your requirements.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: candlebury on November 10, 2021, 05:09:07 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 10, 2021, 02:42:01 pm
When you say sea cliffs, do you mean something like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/gwR6Fkx3/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/gwR6Fkx3)
or something else?

The reason I ask is, some people mean perfectly vertical, with no ramps of any kind, for a certain number of Z-Levels, (10,20,50) minimum.
Or they mean the cliffs drop directly into the water, with no beach.
The challenge, often, is that while it's possible to get those, you also need a place to embark, and default DF won't permit embarks onto pure ocean and/or pure mountain, and/or an exclusive combination of the two.
It's not an impossible situation by any means, just trying to get a better idea of your requirements.

Something like the image you shared there would be excellent! Mostly I just care about having some 10 or so levels of mostly vertical wall I can carve into for the fort. 
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 10, 2021, 07:17:03 pm
I know I can find something better for you, candlebury, and I will, but while working out some parameters for creating the ideal sea cliffs, ended up with this:
Spoiler: Volcano Sea Cliffs (click to show/hide)
Personally, I haven't seen an embark exactly like this before, where the obsidian wall of the volcano touches the ocean with no beach.  Kind of neat.
Well, maybe not so rare, after all..
Spoiler: Volcano Sea Cliffs2 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on November 10, 2021, 07:28:50 pm
vjek have you figured out a reliable way to get multiple and varied life and death secrets in one world? Mine tend to have two slabs with the same intelligent undead ability (I guess, usually coming from the same god?), though I can get lucky and get two or three different ones.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 10, 2021, 08:08:30 pm
Quote from: delphonso on November 10, 2021, 07:28:50 pm
vjek have you figured out a reliable way to get multiple and varied life and death secrets in one world? Mine tend to have two slabs with the same intelligent undead ability (I guess, usually coming from the same god?), though I can get lucky and get two or three different ones.
Not specifically, but try this:
Spoiler: 100 civs,100 slabs (click to show/hide)
I don't actually know if it will make 100 slabs of life and death, but after embark, looking through the artifacts in the civ screen gives the very strong impression there are many 'secrets of life and death' related artifacts.
This is all based on the presumption that of the 100 civs and 100 slabs, there would be at least one slab available per civ.
It will take a few minutes to generate the world, and there are 54 towers after 200 years.
There is likely (I haven't looked, but it seems reasonable) a way to enumerate all the slabs/artifacts in a given world with DFHack, so you can probably get the exact number.
And for clarity, it's not necessary to do this 100/100 thing, I'm just exaggerating the point, if it works.  :D
EDIT:  That world also has 18563 animated undead dwarves.  :o
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on November 10, 2021, 08:46:34 pm
What a nightmare... Hmm, I'll mess around with it and see if I can get a world that is...more reasonably sized.

In a recent world I made there were 3 different slabs, all of which raised "pale hunters" - which seems very unlikely to be just chance. I expect that more dwarf and human civs (I play on pocket worlds with only one or two each of these civs) will lead to greater variety, because of the greater variety of gods - seems intuitive, but is also just speculation.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: candlebury on November 10, 2021, 11:42:25 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 10, 2021, 07:17:03 pm
I know I can find something better for you, candlebury, and I will, but while working out some parameters for creating the ideal sea cliffs, ended up with this:
Spoiler: Volcano Sea Cliffs (click to show/hide)
Personally, I haven't seen an embark exactly like this before, where the obsidian wall of the volcano touches the ocean with no beach.  Kind of neat.
Well, maybe not so rare, after all..
Spoiler: Volcano Sea Cliffs2 (click to show/hide)

Oh that second volcano map is really nice!
Shame about not having access to other civs, but I think Im gonna use it eitherway and have a relaxed game for a change.

Many thanks!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 11, 2021, 01:35:33 am
Quote from: candlebury on November 10, 2021, 12:40:00 pm
Anyone has a map with particularily tall caverns or sea cliffs?

Would like to try out a cavern-cliff side fort for a change
Ok, so here's one that is a little closer to normal..
Steel friendly embark, Humans & Goblin Neighbors, Candy, HFS, Sand, Fire Clay, Lots of metals, Untamed Wilds, etc.
Spoiler: candlebury2 (click to show/hide)
You can selectively clear the seeds and regenerate it and likely get many viable new worlds/regens, too.
Tomorrow I'll take a run at moving the volcanoes onto the shoreline, but wanted to get you a better one without that, first.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on November 11, 2021, 09:54:06 am
I am looking for an embark with the following features:
world size: 33x33
Embark size: 4x4
savagery: any
living dwarven civ
NEIGHBOR: GOBLINS
NEIGHBOR: HUMANS
NEIGHBOR: ELVES
TERRIFYING OCEAN SHORE
70-100% FLAT (0-2)
NO AQUIFER
BIOME TEMPERATURE: WARM
3 BIOMES (one of them TROPICAL PLAINS, the other doesn't matter but preferrably not heavy forest)
ANY GOOD BIOME with small patch of EVIL land biome (less than 25%)
REANIMATING
EVIL WEATHER - optional
CREEK or SMALL RIVER
NO WATERFALLS


SAND
CLAY
DEEP SOIL
FLUX
IRON ORE
LIGNITE/COAL
GOLD ORE
2-3 CAVERNS

I'm hopeful the gurus here might be able to help. Thanks!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 11, 2021, 11:57:07 am
Quote from: Aelwen on November 11, 2021, 09:54:06 am
I am looking for an embark with the following features:
<snip>
What I am gathering from the list is: (that's particularly specific)
1 biome: Terrifying ocean
2 biome: tropical plains
3 biome: any good (with, presumably the evil coming from the ocean/plains?)
and a creek or river somewhere on the 4x4.
The challenge here is that the way DF runs rivers, they don't always run into the ocean, so a spring is what I've observed most often, but we'll see.

The only clarifying questions I have is, when referring to the small patch of evil in one of the other 3 biomes, does that mean the tropical plains should also be evil, or is the evil part coming from the ocean?  Or something else in a fourth biome?
If it would help, by all means draw your ideal layout, something like:
1122
1122
1133
1133
where 1 is the terryfing ocean, 2 is the tropical plains, and 3 is the good biome. Or if that's not correct, whatever it is you're looking for.
EDIT: Here's an example I've found, it has most of what you've asked for except the surface fresh water.  It also has a light aquifer (for fresh water), although only partial.  There is also water in the second cavern.
The two adjacent temperate grasslands are joyous wilds and terrifying, respectively, and Reanimation is present.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on November 11, 2021, 02:01:10 pm
Quote
The only clarifying questions I have is, when referring to the small patch of evil in one of the other 3 biomes, does that mean the tropical plains should also be evil, or is the evil part coming from the ocean?  Or something else in a fourth biome?
If it would help, by all means draw your ideal layout, something like:
1122
1122
1133
1133
where 1 is the terryfing ocean, 2 is the tropical plains, and 3 is the good biome. Or if that's not correct, whatever it is you're looking for.

I want an evil ocean ANd a small patch of evil land. Most of the land should be good.

Smth like this: 1- ocean, 2 -good (preferrably plains) biome 3- evil land biome (preferrably plains or desert but forest is ok too if nothing else fits)

1222
2222
2223
2222

or

2223
2221
2222 
2222

2222
1223
2222
2222

1 quarter of evil ocean, 1 quarter or less of evil land and the rest is a good biome.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 11, 2021, 02:09:24 pm
Ok, I see what you mean.  If you adjusted the embark location in the sample embark above north by two, would that be close to what you're looking for, biome wise?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on November 11, 2021, 03:54:44 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 11, 2021, 02:09:24 pm
Ok, I see what you mean.  If you adjusted the embark location in the sample embark above north by two, would that be close to what you're looking for, biome wise?

I think yes, thank you. If you meet/find more such plots, embarks, send them to me anyway, please.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: candlebury on November 11, 2021, 08:34:04 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 11, 2021, 01:35:33 am
Quote from: candlebury on November 10, 2021, 12:40:00 pm
Anyone has a map with particularily tall caverns or sea cliffs?

Would like to try out a cavern-cliff side fort for a change
Ok, so here's one that is a little closer to normal..
Steel friendly embark, Humans & Goblin Neighbors, Candy, HFS, Sand, Fire Clay, Lots of metals, Untamed Wilds, etc.
Spoiler: candlebury2 (click to show/hide)
You can selectively clear the seeds and regenerate it and likely get many viable new worlds/regens, too.
Tomorrow I'll take a run at moving the volcanoes onto the shoreline, but wanted to get you a better one without that, first.

Perfect!

Thanks for all your help and work!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 12, 2021, 11:02:05 am
Quote from: Aelwen on November 11, 2021, 03:54:44 pm
I think yes, thank you. If you meet/find more such plots, embarks, send them to me anyway, please.
Here's a couple more that are similar, and have surface rivers.  The feature that remain difficult to exclude are aquifers.  But they seem to be partial, and/or light, so not a huge problem.
Another detail that may or may not matter, is that sometimes embark tiles for the ocean aren't blue, and don't have waves or more than 1 tile of ocean depth.  So, they technically count, but in the worst case, won't behave like an ocean in varying ways, possibly up to not spawning ocean critters.  If that matters, and you want at least one blue ocean tile, that's worth clarifying.  :)
Spoiler: aelwen2-c (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on November 13, 2021, 03:12:53 pm
Quote
Here's a couple more that are similar, and have surface rivers.  The feature that remain difficult to exclude are aquifers.

I jus use Starter Pack's feature to exclude all aquifers so it's ok. Yes, at least one square of blue ocean tile would be nice.

I've checked your last two embarks, the first one is almost perfect but it's not reanimating.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 15, 2021, 08:58:14 am
The evil ocean tile is reanimating, in that one. 
I presume, then, that you would prefer the small evil land area to be Reanimating, rather than the ocean?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Garfunkel on November 17, 2021, 12:29:11 am
Hey folks!

Using PerfectWorld, are there any guides or do you guys have any tips to ensure that I get the sort of world that I want because I'd like to create multiple sites eventually, not just one. So, I want the following:

1. Surface volcano
2. Waterfall - the bigger the better both width and height wise
3. A bay or channel that is narrow enough that I can build a bridge fort to span in via 2x8 embark zone
4. Crossroads

Again, these do not need to be the same site, I'm planning to build multiple forts.

Additionally, I'd love to get as many different animals from elves and humans as possible, so the world would need to be somewhat large to accommodate as many biomes as possible. Plus lot of minerals too.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 17, 2021, 09:58:45 am
From that list, Garfunkel, the only part you would need to artificially contrive would be the Waterfall, I think.
A surface volcano is pretty straightforward, provided you have 8 non-volcanism tiles surrounding the volcanism tile of the surface volcano, you're likely to get one that doesn't extrude too far above the embark level.  When volcanism tiles are adjacent, they build on each others elevation.  With sufficiently few and far between volcano's, they should all be surface.  Or at least, enough or many of them.

Waterfalls are created whenever there is a disparity in elevation of two rivers.  So, build one or two rivers of whatever height (51+) and width (up to a full tile) and run them into each other.  There should be some examples in this thread of how to do that.  Otherwise, running rivers towards the ocean also creates waterfalls, but the method is slightly different due to the way rivers and the ocean meet, in DF.

PW will help with the rivers, but as there is an ocean and potential volcanoes, you'll likely end up with very thick worlds, unless you raise the ocean up to ~80 (from 1).  If you raise it too high (99) you wont' get any blue ocean tiles, which causes some issues.
You can't set part of the world to be Pre-Set Field Values, and some not, within a value type.  What I mean by that is, you can't say, just make this part of the elevation of the map random, and then artificially pre-set this other part.  It's an all or nothing endeavor.
Consequently, you'll end up with extremely large worldgen configuration files, most of which are too large to post on these forums if your world size is very large and/or you use preset field values for more than one value type.  Just something to keep in mind.  You can use and link to pastebin, though.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Garfunkel on November 17, 2021, 07:52:40 pm
Thanks for the tips vjek!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Aelwen on November 19, 2021, 07:27:56 am
Quote from: vjek on November 15, 2021, 08:58:14 am
The evil ocean tile is reanimating, in that one. 
I presume, then, that you would prefer the small evil land area to be Reanimating, rather than the ocean?
Everything is fine, thanks. I've founded my fort already.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 20, 2021, 12:18:07 pm
Hello everyone

I've been looking for a specific kind of embark for some time, and maybe you guys can help me.

I would love a peninsula embark, basically a mountain advancing into the sea.
Something vaguely shaped like Florida, with water on 3 sides and connected to the mainland by the last one.
Mountainous enough to build on several Z levels.

Only other features wanted is access to Elfs, Goblins and Humans for a bit of variety.
Good variety of metals would be a plus, but i guess i could handle it in Dfhack

Does that sound possible ? I don't mind generating several worlds, but maybe someone can give me some parameters to help me ?

Thanks in advance !   
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 20, 2021, 01:21:30 pm
Quote from: Nevrast on November 20, 2021, 12:18:07 pm
... Does that sound possible ? I don't mind generating several worlds, but maybe someone can give me some parameters to help me ?

Thanks in advance !
Definitely possible.  Some follow up questions:
Do you want blue ocean tiles (actual ocean, with waves, and more than one Z level deep) or is any ocean tile ok? (this has consequences for both gameplay and finding the embark in the first place)
Can it be a lake and not the ocean?
Do you want purely vertical cliffs going into the water, and if so, what's the minimum vertical height of the cliff?
Do you care if there is a narrow, or wide beach at the base of the cliff?  Or absolutely no beach of any kind, on at least some part of the embark?
Do they have to be sheer cliffs, entirely vertical from the waterline up, with no slopes except at the very top?  Or can they contain slope tiles from the bottom to the top?
Do you want a volcano within the embark, and/or does that matter in the slightest?
What's the largest embark size you're willing to tolerate to get this combination? 2x2,3x3,4x4,5x5, more?
Any biome/temperature/savagery/evil/good preferences regarding the embark-able area, given you can't embark on either ocean or mountain or a combination of exclusively ocean & mountain..?

The creation of what you're describing isn't a problem, but .. with something so specific, it's good to get the details first.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 20, 2021, 02:15:28 pm
- It can be any body of water, really. Lake, ocean, doesn't really matter.
- A beach / flat side is OK but i'd like at least one side to be sheer vertical cliffs. I guess 10Z or more would be ideal ? I have this idea of carving an underground harbor on one cliff side
- Volcano would be a nice bonus, but i can totally live without it
- Don't really care about the biome, maybe not evil. Just access to neighbors civs.
- I like big embark to have plenty of space on a single Z level, so something like 5x5 or 6x6 ? Can be a different shape.

I have no idea about the difficulty of what i'm asking, but it seems very specific  :-\

Thanks in advance vjek !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 20, 2021, 03:12:53 pm
Creating the interaction between cliffs and the water isn't difficult, that's just putting an elevation 150+ against an elevation <=99.
The difficulty is in creating and then finding an embarkable area that is adjacent to these dramatic elevation interaction areas.
The rest (civs, metals, etc) is trivial.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 20, 2021, 05:11:31 pm
Quote from: Nevrast on November 20, 2021, 02:15:28 pm
- It can be any body of water, really. Lake, ocean, doesn't really matter.
- A beach / flat side is OK but i'd like at least one side to be sheer vertical cliffs. I guess 10Z or more would be ideal ? I have this idea of carving an underground harbor on one cliff side
- Volcano would be a nice bonus, but i can totally live without it
- Don't really care about the biome, maybe not evil. Just access to neighbors civs.
- I like big embark to have plenty of space on a single Z level, so something like 5x5 or 6x6 ? Can be a different shape.

I have no idea about the difficulty of what i'm asking, but it seems very specific  :-\

Thanks in advance vjek !
Something like this, but with water/ocean on the far side, as well?
(https://i.postimg.cc/F1HgCGW8/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/F1HgCGW8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 20, 2021, 05:20:18 pm
Yes exactly !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 21, 2021, 09:52:28 am
This is the closest match I've found so far.. Does that have the appearance of what you're looking for?
These two stonesense screenshots are of the same embark, just two different angles showing the ocean surrounding.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TLBYfXSN/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/TLBYfXSN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KR2xNQyT/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/KR2xNQyT)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 21, 2021, 10:08:43 am
Sold !

That's amazing ! I have big plans for this one and it seems perfect !

Thank you so much, you sir are a scholar and a gentleman !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 21, 2021, 10:23:31 am
Ok, here's the details for that one:
Spoiler: nevrast2a (click to show/hide)
I also found this one, any interest there?  It's technically a sort of L shaped isthmus, but it was uncommon to see it..
(https://i.postimg.cc/nMRR0h7t/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/nMRR0h7t)
It's in a 6x3 embark, but only one tile is non-mountain / non-ocean.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 21, 2021, 10:26:35 am
Interesting as well ! Can i have both ? I'll have a look at them in game.

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 21, 2021, 10:29:25 am
Sure, here's the worldgen and location for that L shaped one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Also found this one, which is a little different, because the west side is non-mountain/non-ocean, but there is technically an ocean/beach surrounding three sides..
If you want the location/worldgen for that one, let me know.
(https://i.postimg.cc/z3QnMbf8/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/z3QnMbf8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JyRJJjpc/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/JyRJJjpc)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Nevrast on November 21, 2021, 10:58:37 am
I'll take that last one, the forest biome on the west brings a bit of variety ! Thank you so much ! I'll post a picture of the fort if all goes well !
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 21, 2021, 11:04:24 am
Here it is:
Spoiler: nevrast2c (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: willkydd on November 28, 2021, 04:30:45 pm
Is this possible?

a "lake embark", ideally 3x3 but possibly 4x4 with a central lake at least 5Z deep, flat or mildly hilly dense connifer forrest surroundings with at least 1-2 layers of soil. Bonus: coal and metals. Extra bonus: volcano at bottom of lake (with obsidian "cap").

...in a world that is as small as possible and has 1-2 civs of each (dwarv, elf, goblin, human), not overwhelmed by towers/necromancers. World must have steel (somewhere, not necessarily on the lake embark, just able to import it from other civs). Bonus: world conditions are met with history over 250 years (e.g. civs don't die before). Extra bonus: world has at least one ocean edge.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 28, 2021, 06:35:54 pm
Quote from: willkydd on November 28, 2021, 04:30:45 pm
Is this possible?

a "lake embark", ideally 3x3 but possibly 4x4 with a central lake at least 5Z deep, flat or mildly hilly dense conifer forest surroundings with at least 1-2 layers of soil. Bonus: coal and metals. Extra bonus: volcano at bottom of lake (with obsidian "cap").

...in a world that is as small as possible and has 1-2 civs of each (dwarv, elf, goblin, human), not overwhelmed by towers/necromancers. World must have steel (somewhere, not necessarily on the lake embark, just able to import it from other civs). Bonus: world conditions are met with history over 250 years (e.g. civs don't die before). Extra bonus: world has at least one ocean edge.
Probably possible, from what I've seen. 
Essentially just create a world that favors conifer forests and lakes and you should find it, eventually.

I've seen underwater/below-embark volcano embarks in the ocean and lakes and they are.. problematic. 
The water doesn't flow until the moment of embarkation, so.. it won't actually seal itself without going through hundreds (thousands?) of collapsing messages.  And even then, it takes a really long time, because all of the obsidian that isn't adjacent to a wall keeps falling in to the SMR sea.  And then reforming, and then falling, and reforming, and falling, etc.
I've even seen cases where they never seem to seal, because of this issue.  I mean, it's interesting, but I don't think you'd want to seek it out, intentionally. :)

To get the rivers and lakes to form and flow just make sure there is at least 8 Z-levels of variation in elevation (100 to 108, for example). 
If you want all civs, you won't be able to have exclusively mountains + lakes, because elves and humans need forests and plains, respectively.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: willkydd on November 28, 2021, 07:08:11 pm
Quote
Probably possible, from what I've seen. 
Essentially just create a world that favors conifer forests and lakes and you should find it, eventually.

Thanks, how would I do that? I think conifers would be by manipulating drainage and temperature to favor it, but how about lakes?

Is there a way to find lakes that are separate from rivers?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 28, 2021, 08:18:07 pm
Lakes are formed whenever you have a river 'ending' that doesn't exit the map or reach the ocean.

Are you looking for something like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3WYVk3tf/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/3WYVk3tf)
Or more like:
FFF
FLF
FFF
Where F = Forest and L = Lake?
For comparison, the above is:
FFF
FLL
FLL
EDIT:
This one is a little bit better, 4Z deep lake, and more of a wrap-around, layout is:
FLL
FLF
FFF
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPpBwt5r/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/mPpBwt5r)
And this third one is laid out like this..
LLL
FLF
FFF
and looks like: (with two 5Z+ lake depth tiles)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gwZMt2Dp/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/gwZMt2Dp)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: willkydd on November 28, 2021, 10:59:03 pm
Quote from: vjek on November 28, 2021, 08:18:07 pm
Lakes are formed whenever you have a river 'ending' that doesn't exit the map or reach the ocean.

Are you looking for something like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/3WYVk3tf/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/3WYVk3tf)
Or more like:
FFF
FLF
FFF


I'm looking for FFF
FLF
FFF
, but from the examples you gave, the first fits the bill the best even though it doesn't perfectly match the pattern, because it large enough.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on November 29, 2021, 08:47:47 pm
I've found this fourth one..
(https://i.postimg.cc/4Y5Ck5tx/image.png) (https://postimg.cc/4Y5Ck5tx)
Laid out as:
FFL
FLL
FLL
It has a 5 depth lake though, which the other one didn't.  Is this too much lake, and not enough land?
There's one less forest tile than the previous one you liked, so it's perfectly fine if it's doesn't meet your needs.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: lucusLoC on December 18, 2021, 04:06:22 am
Ok everyone, I have a crazy tough one for you. Call it the "super easy mode because I want to do everything and don't have a lot of time" site.

I would like;

I have a world gen that gets me lots of close sites, but nothing so far that has everything;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This seems like an embark that would be considered "perfect" so I would guess someone somewhere has already found it, but if not I think it is only a matter of time with the above world gen. If you have suggestions to tweak that world gen to increase the odds I am all ears. Also, not sure if this is just my rig or not, but this world gen seems to have a hard time getting past 200 years without crashing. I have zero issues playing a world that young, but I do like to at least get it past the first generation of dorfs so everyone alive has parents.

I am also not above cheating in things (again, this is all about saving my very limited play time), so if I have to drop in a sand/clay source, or if there is a way to edit the climate or the ores I will take that for an otherwise perfect site. I also have not made it to the !!Fun!! at the bottom in this version yet, but I intend to. If you think I should increase the layer count down there for some reason I will put that into the world gen.

Also looking for advice on how to avoid lag death, in case there are any considerations specific to the newest version. I do use DF Hack to keep things clean and reduce clutter, but I also like to run as many industries as I can and build megaprojects. I know all the usual stuff like keep the site as small as possible, limit fort population and such, but there is a lot new in this version and I would love to know any new tricks.

Thanks!

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on December 19, 2021, 09:17:40 am
Doesn't look like anything is too difficult, locusLoC, but two questions:
When you say 'lots' of space before the first cavern layer, do you want 10 or 100, or some other specific minimum amount?
Would a small amount of partial light aquifer be ok, or 100% none is the requirement?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: locustgate on December 19, 2021, 01:31:54 pm
I'm not sure if this is the right place. I've been trying to make a medium map that is large landmass surrounded by 3 sided oceans. But I keep getting ones that have multiple inland oceans and 3 oceans surrounding it and most of the oceans are savage. 
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: lucusLoC on December 20, 2021, 03:12:09 am
I would say between 10 and 20 would be good for my designs (I have my world gen at 10, but that is just the minimum). A light aquifer would be acceptable if all else was perfect. Worst case is I get tired of dealing with it and hack in obsidian walls to get through. My biggest gripe with them is they get in the way of building, but they can be useful for certain projects.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: dikbutdagrate on January 08, 2022, 01:24:25 am
You're not playing on a real map unless this is first thing you see on an ocean deployment:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And upon unpausing the game, this happens:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Needless to say, all of the dwarves melted in seconds. And I can't remember whether the wagon burst into flames or not.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on January 08, 2022, 10:11:13 am
Quote from: dikbutdagrate on January 08, 2022, 01:24:25 am
Your images are broken again. Imagetitan is probably not a very good image hosting site.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: dikbutdagrate on January 08, 2022, 11:02:44 pm
It's awful, but I'm at a loss as to how other people get around the http only non-sense.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on January 09, 2022, 09:58:31 am
I use Imgur. If you want, you don't even need to make an account. Just go to the home page and paste your image, and it will automatically host your image and give you several options.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Use this one and then simply paste the link into the forum post.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's considered polite to put large images in spoiler tags. You can also check if your images work by using the "preview" button next to the post button.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: callisto8413 on January 13, 2022, 10:00:14 am
I was wondering how close I can get to the Dark Suns setting?  In other words metal poor with a world that is mostly, but not totally, desert?

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 15, 2022, 09:50:37 am
Quote from: callisto8413 on January 13, 2022, 10:00:14 am
I was wondering how close I can get to the Dark Suns setting?  In other words metal poor with a world that is mostly, but not totally, desert?
From what I've seen..
If you set your rain value to 0-9, you'll only get deserts, badlands, or rocky wastelands.
If you have any rain in the world of 10 or higher, you'll get all those grasslands -> forest type biomes.
You can use the variance, mesh, and weighted range to affect what values within your rain range are used.  A quick example would be if you set your Rain range 0-12, and then changed your mesh to 2x2 (in a 17x17 world) and your weighted ranges to 99,none,none,none,1 you would get very few 10-12 rain values used.  However, if that were changed to 9,none,none,none,1 you would get more 10-12 rain values used.
As far as metal poor, you can set mineral scarcity to 100000 and you'll get less metals.

Examples:
One world tile of grassland (10+ Rain):
Spoiler: Rain1 (click to show/hide)
Several world tiles of grassland (10+ Rain):
Spoiler: Rain2 (click to show/hide)
While the rest is desert, setting aside lakes.
Aside from the seeds, the only thing different in those two worldgens above is the Rain Weighted Range (0-20) changing from 99 to 9.
You can remove the seeds yourself and generate many worlds with those two parameter sets, and generally, the above appears to be true.  Generally.  8)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 15, 2022, 10:28:09 am
Quote from: lucusLoC on December 20, 2021, 03:12:09 am
I would say between 10 and 20 would be good for my designs (I have my world gen at 10, but that is just the minimum). A light aquifer would be acceptable if all else was perfect. Worst case is I get tired of dealing with it and hack in obsidian walls to get through. My biggest gripe with them is they get in the way of building, but they can be useful for certain projects.
Technically, I think this matches except for one thing: It's not entirely flat.
Take a look and see what you think..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 16, 2022, 05:19:13 am
Unfortunately, callisto8413 only copied the summary from the original post http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179445.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179445.0), and thus failed to mention the desire for elves, which require forests.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: callisto8413 on January 16, 2022, 06:37:34 am
Thank you folks.  That helps alot.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: dikbutdagrate on January 16, 2022, 05:10:12 pm
Its a little cold:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Immortal-D on January 19, 2022, 09:01:53 pm
Hey all.  Is there a way to decrease the number of layers between surface and cavern 1?  When embarking at a coastline (ocean), I am always finding upwards of 100z before reaching the top of the cavern.  The elevation at worldgen is 0-3, nothing abnormal.  I have 'levels above layer 1' set to 5.  Also I'm focused on the tropical band, wherever that may occur.  Does beachfront property always have such extreme depth as a matter of course?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on January 20, 2022, 01:46:15 am
Quote from: Immortal-D on January 19, 2022, 09:01:53 pm
Hey all.  Is there a way to decrease the number of layers between surface and cavern 1?  When embarking at a coastline (ocean), I am always finding upwards of 100z before reaching the top of the cavern. ...
The cause here is the ocean.  If your global ocean depth is 1, then your world will be very thick, and you'll see the problem you're describing.
If you set your ocean depth/minimum elevation to 90, instead of 1, for example, you'll see a much 'thinner' world.  I haven't seen any issues with a 5-10 depth ocean, but YMMV.
If you have no ocean at all (all global elevations 100+) then the elevation value in advanced worldgen will be respected/adhered to ~exactly, in my experience.  That means, for example, if you set that value to 8, you'll have 8 Z-Levels from either the bottom of the soil or the embark level to the top of the caverns.
Also, non-flat embarks will shift this value slightly.  If the entire embark, edge to edge, is flat, then it should be closer/more consistent to what you set it.

Related/reference threads which either explain this in more detail, or have example 'thin' world/embarks:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8160351#msg8160351
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8233066#msg8233066
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8302993#msg8302993
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8212464#msg8212464
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8173444#msg8173444
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Immortal-D on January 20, 2022, 12:42:20 pm
Quote from: vjek on January 20, 2022, 01:46:15 am
The cause here is the ocean.  If your global ocean depth is 1, then your world will be very thick, and you'll see the problem you're describing.
If you set your ocean depth/minimum elevation to 90, instead of 1, for example, you'll see a much 'thinner' world.  I haven't seen any issues with a 5-10 depth ocean, but YMMV.

Fascinating.  Right now my elevation has moderate-high variance at '0:400:1000:1000', though I never considered that for world depth, only a patchwork surface.  Since an ocean needs 0-99 and a proper mountain needs 300+, I'm thinking along the lines of ~10-40:320-360:500:500.  If I can get my layers at the ocean under 50, I will be a happy Dorf.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dradavich on January 28, 2022, 07:03:01 pm
Is there anyway to make deserts/badlands generate more in hotter climates. I.E on the opposite side of a pool?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: PatrikLundell on January 29, 2022, 04:59:50 am
Quote from: Dradavich on January 28, 2022, 07:03:01 pm
Is there anyway to make deserts/badlands generate more in hotter climates. I.E on the opposite side of a pool?
Apart from using PSVs to define your world or having a script "adjust" rainfall during world generation, no. There is no way to define different settings for different latitudes.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dradavich on February 13, 2022, 01:00:24 am
Here's a Z shaped island

Without Good/Evil
(https://i.ibb.co/1rYj8dG/Z.png) (https://ibb.co/2v0Hgs3)

With Good and Evil
(https://i.ibb.co/ZNTY2zz/Z2.png) (https://ibb.co/kMc9m22)

Params
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Kedly on February 16, 2022, 01:34:39 am
Anyone know what settings can gen coastal cliffs on a large world? The only advanced gen guides I can find through google are achieved with pocket worlds
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 16, 2022, 07:58:08 pm
Quote from: Kedly on February 16, 2022, 01:34:39 am
Anyone know what settings can gen coastal cliffs on a large world? The only advanced gen guides I can find through google are achieved with pocket worlds
The same principles should apply, regardless of world size.
But.. a few questions..
What's driving the need for a large world?  A specific biome, or something else?  In fortress mode, there's very little that affects the fortress that is unique to world size.
What type of cliff are you looking for?  10+Z of vertical into water with no beach?  A river/waterfall?  A large slope with a beach?  Some combination of those?
I mean, ultimately, if you manually (via PSV/PFV) set the ocean depth and land height, and make them 90 and 299 respectively adjacent, you'll get some pretty steep cliffs, eventually. :)

When people ask for these types of requests, for me, it comes down to beach or no beach?  Everything else is pretty reasonable to find, if the player will accept a beach at the base of the cliff.  No beach cliff embarks are considerably more rare, unless lakes are included in 'coastal' water.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Kedly on February 16, 2022, 09:55:08 pm
Large worlds because I like being able to use the same world to jump between adventure mode and dwarf mode, and my computer is decently beefy. SO It'd be nice to always have options with new forts. Temperature wise temperate is PREFERABLE to always unfrozen, just because it makes building supports easier, but if it meets having both deep ass water and high ass cliffs in the same fort area, I'll make do with whatever, beach or no beach... hmm, maybe I'm just bad at looking
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on February 16, 2022, 11:41:54 pm
Here's a quick and dirty example of a Preset Field Values world designed specifically for sea cliffs:  (it even has a dead civ!)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Kedly on February 17, 2022, 08:17:21 pm
Ohhh, thanks! That'll definitely do the trick!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dradavich on March 10, 2022, 04:40:01 am
I have been messing around with a couple of world gen an noticed some things.

There are a couple of settings that slightly tweak a world's generation without completely changing it (if you use the same seed)

Changing the volcano number changes both the color of sand for deserts and also the shape of those deserts while the deserts will appear in a similar place they may look slightly different, In fact I have observed such deserts slightly changing that shape of mountains. Volcano Number also effects what metals appear in certain regions.

Changing the Mineral Scarcity also changes the metals that appear in certain regions If you are trying to get a desert a certain shape or color i suggest you tweak the volcano number setting before this one.

Changing the Difference in the amount of good squares compared to evil squares can effect where evil and good is placed in the world (It's easier to do this with small subregions) Let me explain how this works with an example, you have 100 good small and 100 evil small when you generate the world a certain desert is evil, when you change the settings to 500 good and 500 evil the desert remains evil however when you change the settings to 101 good small and 100 evil the desert becomes good, when you put in 501 good and 500 evil that desert is still good. another thing I noticed was each region has what i like to call a changing number. So that a region will not change to evil/good until a certain number is reached so for example on a certain world at 201 good 304 evil (103 Difference) may produce a certain forest that is neutral but at 202 good 305 evil it finally changes that forest to either good or evil.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Dradavich on March 12, 2022, 07:33:45 am
I want to generate a world with a lot of glacier area but without badlands/with little amounts of badlands, Is there anyway I can do this?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: NordicNooob on March 13, 2022, 07:41:09 am
Quote from: Dradavich on March 12, 2022, 07:33:45 am
I want to generate a world with a lot of glacier area but without badlands/with little amounts of badlands, Is there anyway I can do this?

Glaciers depend only on drainage and temperature, so you're free to alter rainfall as you please. Fortunately, drainage gating but freedom over rainfall gives you access to most biomes (or something similar) except for swamps, and I don't think anybody likes swamps. I believe glaciers start spawning below -5 degrees temperature and above 67 drainage.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Garfunkel on March 16, 2022, 01:12:24 am
I wonder if it's possible to have 2 waterfalls on embark that are on the same side but different edges?

I'm looking for embark area from 2x2 to 6x6 where one side is lake/ocean and the opposite side is a mountain, as sheer as possible. Between would be relatively flat area, beach is fine too. Now the tricky bit is that I want there to be a waterfall on that mountain, with a river/stream/brook that runs into the lake/ocean. If it's impossible to have 2 on the same side - which I believe to be the case - then I'll just dig out the second one. So basically, I am looking for a plot of flat land that is bordered by mountain, lake/ocean and two "rivers". That's because I want to build my outdoor fort inside that area in the middle.

Abundant metals would be a great bonus, same with contact with other civilizations.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on March 17, 2022, 08:53:38 am
Currently, the only reliable method I know of to produce purely vertical waterfall cliffs is to have two rivers intersect.
Similarly, at the moment, rivers in DF do not run into lakes or oceans, exactly or elegantly.  They get close, but at the embark level, it's not implemented as you would likely imagine. :)
As such, while it may be possible, I've never personally seen what you're describing, Garfunkel, that is, having a  river that runs into a lake/ocean in the same 6x6 as a waterfall.
The primary issue being: It requires two rivers, a significant elevation disparity, and the lake/ocean all within a 6x6.

Still, it might happen, I suppose?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Garfunkel on March 20, 2022, 02:22:43 am
Yeah, I've seen that before and I always end up digging channels to make the river "flow" properly into the lake/sea.

I had forgotten about the two-river requirement! Oh well.
Title: Peak Adamantine?
Post by: blue emu on April 23, 2022, 01:58:20 pm
How does one maximize the availability of Adamantine in World Gen?
Title: Re: Peak Adamantine?
Post by: vjek on April 24, 2022, 09:06:02 am
Quote from: blue emu on April 23, 2022, 01:58:20 pm
How does one maximize the availability of Adamantine in World Gen?
Best answer I know of, in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8095776;topicseen#msg8095776) thread..
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: FantasticDorf on May 06, 2022, 06:12:43 pm
Been reading around, is elevation 103/104 still the preferred "shut-off" for water features like spontanous lakes across desert terrain? Lake/River generation is sort of hampering my highly arid PW generation based off my aquired heightmap Las Vegas, where the emphasis least for map & mod-use would be to use aquifers to outline survivable areas using well-water.

The largest concentrations are occuring inside my mountain-ranges, which is somewhat annoying without feeling like resorting to forcibly elevating the pre-sets, but even still there are splodges across the landscape of individual desert lakes.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: chaotic skies on May 07, 2022, 10:29:06 am
I'm looking to make the caverns as interesting to live in as possible. Any ideas on what would be good settings? I know lava tubes are neat, and I'd like some source of water for projects, but otherwise I'm not really sure what settings even affect the caverns.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: ☼Obsidian Short Sword☼ on May 29, 2022, 08:39:04 pm
I would like an embark(5x5), That has a tropical-shrubland on the Right side, And a tropical Fresh-water swamp/marsh on the left side. In the center I would like a 15 z-level or higher cliff with a waterfall in the middle. Could you make sure that the waterfall lands on the surface? Because I don't like it when it ends under-ground.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Garfunkel on June 19, 2022, 12:37:39 am
Quote from: chaotic skies on May 07, 2022, 10:29:06 am
I'm looking to make the caverns as interesting to live in as possible. Any ideas on what would be good settings? I know lava tubes are neat, and I'd like some source of water for projects, but otherwise I'm not really sure what settings even affect the caverns.
You probably want to increase the openness a lot unless you love tight little mazes, in which case you want to go the opposite way.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Maloy on June 19, 2022, 09:31:13 pm
How would I specifically increase the number of dragons spawned during world gen?
I know how to increase the general number of beasts in advanced parameters, but I was imagining an adventure mode world where dragon-hunting is a common career rather than them being rare as they are
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Ziusudra on June 19, 2022, 09:57:01 pm
Quote from: Maloy on June 19, 2022, 09:31:13 pm
How would I specifically increase the number of dragons spawned during world gen?
I know how to increase the general number of beasts in advanced parameters, but I was imagining an adventure mode world where dragon-hunting is a common career rather than them being rare as they are
That would be a raw mod - in the file raw/objects/creature_standard.txt, in the section that starts with the line [CREATURE:DRAGON], change the [FREQUENCY:5] to a higher number. 100 would probably be too much, and 50 might be, I'd start with 25 and see how that goes. Edit: Probably also need to increase Max Megabeast Caves (https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Advanced_world_generation#Max_Megabeast_Caves)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: redivider on August 12, 2022, 04:25:25 pm
I am looking for a seed that has: reanimating glacier with iron ore, dead (or dying, preferably dead) but playable dwarven civ
generating a dead civ consistently seems to extremely hard.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Schmaven on August 12, 2022, 05:54:59 pm
I don't know about generating dead civs, but if you generate some low site / low population civs, you could finish them off in adventure mode, then go back to embarking.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on August 12, 2022, 10:25:21 pm
Quote from: redivider on August 12, 2022, 04:25:25 pm
I am looking for a seed that has: reanimating glacier with iron ore, dead (or dying, preferably dead) but playable dwarven civ
generating a dead civ consistently seems to extremely hard.
Two posts from this thread regarding dead civ generation:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8325008#msg8325008
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8088881#msg8088881
and two embarks that might be related to what you're looking for.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8212464#msg8212464
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8302993#msg8302993
If those don't get you moving in the right direction, let me know and I will be able to generate a matching world on Sunday.
Optionally, you can fill out the form here (https://vjek.github.io/df_worldgen_parameters.html), and paste the results into a new post if any other features matter.  That javascript form doesn't submit anything or go anywhere, it just shows your results so you can paste them here.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on August 13, 2022, 07:15:01 am
Quote from: Schmaven on August 12, 2022, 05:54:59 pm
I don't know about generating dead civs, but if you generate some low site / low population civs, you could finish them off in adventure mode, then go back to embarking.

How dwarven of you.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: delphonso on August 13, 2022, 07:51:15 pm
Grand Cartographer vjek, I'm quite happy with the generic options for world gen, but if I wanted to make a region map or change cavern parameters, I then have to do some guess work. Perhaps you know (or know where to look):

On a Small world 65x65, what parameters are changed when choosing 'very low, low, medium, high, very high' for savagery? Is it variance or minimum?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: muldrake on August 28, 2022, 06:56:13 pm
Quote from: vjek on May 25, 2020, 04:59:45 pm
Came across something today I haven't seen before, and wanted to check with everyone else to see if they've seen it.
Single cavern layer world.
Water in the caverns.  A lot of water.
Volcano on the embark.
Candy spire that reaches to 4Z above the top of the cavern.
As in, the candy spire starts in the SMR sea, extends up through the magma, through the first and only cavern, then keeps going another 4Z in normal stone layers.

Have you seen this before?
I have something similar.  Although it has three cavern layers, they're extremely close together, and there is a volcano (I used advanced worldgen to get a lot of these).  It also has a peak that goes up an absurd number of z-layers, and this is probably why the caverns are not only close together, but very near the surface.  The adamantine spire (which I have not found the bottom of but believe goes all the way to the very close SMR floor extends one z-layer above the caverns.

Unfortunately most of it is submerged in magma, although I'm working in fits and starts on an obsidian farming operation to get to it.  It isn't a particularly difficult embark to do that on but I keep being interrupted by dragons and the like.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Ketsa on October 14, 2022, 03:54:23 am
I am looking how to limit the number of z-levels of a cavern layer ? is this possible ? I want 1 or 2 Z-levels.
Also I'd like the cavern more open and less small corridors, is this achievable ?
Thanks.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: vjek on October 14, 2022, 05:58:47 pm
Quote from: Ketsa on October 14, 2022, 03:54:23 am
I am looking how to limit the number of z-levels of a cavern layer ? is this possible ? I want 1 or 2 Z-levels.
Also I'd like the cavern more open and less small corridors, is this achievable ?
Thanks.
You can't (afaik) limit the cavern layers to less than 5 or 6 Z-Levels, normally.  However, you can set Cavern Layer Openness to 100 min/max, and Cavern Layer Passage Density Min/Max to 0 to achieve completely open caverns.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 01, 2022, 09:43:26 pm
Apologies in advance for any formatting errors; this is my first post on this forum.

(https://i.imgur.com/M1i9LJk.png)

I've recently used the world painter tool to create a custom map that recreates the real-life island of Mauritius at as close to a perfect 1:1 scale as I can get. I chose Mauritius because from my research, it has the best ratio of land area to elevation range to fit into any of DF's available world sizes and 400 z-levels (going with the assumption that each z-level is 2.8 metres tall and each tile is 2 metres wide). I haven't gotten around to modding, but this would be the perfect map to play with modded-in dodo birds!

(See following posts for the worldgen file; hit character limit.)

The other settings are mostly up to you, but it does need to be a 65x65 ("small") world, as with any custom map you should set the required region counts to 0 to avoid excessive rejections since not all biomes are present, and to avoid losing the mountains you should NOT "periodically erode extreme cliffs" (but a high "erosion cycle count" seems to work fine). While it isn't strictly necessary I also recommend setting a constant temperature of about 87 with no poles for an accurate climate, and I factored orographic precipitation into the rainfall map so I recommend turning that setting off for accuracy as well. Keep in mind for the other settings that a lot of this map is ocean since the main island is just a bit too big to fit onto the next smallest map size, so things might get crowded on the available land if you have a lot of civ sites, but you can add in fictional extra land yourself if you want to.

The real island that this map is based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/L%27%C3%AEle_Maurice_vue_par_Sentinel_2_%28cropped%29.jpg/480px-L%27%C3%AEle_Maurice_vue_par_Sentinel_2_%28cropped%29.jpg)

*Edit: this still works on the Steam version.*
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 01, 2022, 09:47:35 pm
Mauritius world_gen.txt copypasta, elevation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 01, 2022, 09:48:43 pm
*Edited to work better with temperature setting, now only tropical biomes should generate if you set the minimum temperature to 87. Incidentally this also increases the size of the shrublands so humans have more viable settlement space.*

Mauritius world_gen.txt copypasta, rainfall:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 01, 2022, 09:50:37 pm
Mauritius world_gen.txt copypasta, drainage (optional?):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 01, 2022, 09:51:22 pm
Mauritius world_gen.txt copypasta, volcanism:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on November 02, 2022, 02:35:05 pm
Very interesting. I might give it a whirl next fort.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Salmeuk on November 11, 2022, 02:36:05 pm
wow great work. I imagine this kind of thing will become more common as the world painter tool's interface is finally updated.

may I ask what your scale interpretation method was?

Quote
I chose Mauritius because from my research, it has the best ratio of land area to elevation range to fit into any of DF's available world sizes and 400 z-levels (going with the assumption that each z-level is 2.8 metres tall and each tile is 2 metres wide).

For instance, mauritus does not exactly have gigantic stony peaks, so is your translation a sort of factor scale of Mauritus? for instance, on this topo map I found,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

one can place the high point at 828m irl. so would I be correct in saying the tallest mountain present in your map is 295 z levels? or was this point raised to 400z in order to expand and provide more topo detail? or (third option) am i completely misinterpreting a process i only sort-of understand?

I think your map reveals an important fact about the realistic scale of DF mountains, which is that they are not realistic at all.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: teabasins on November 11, 2022, 05:59:33 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on November 11, 2022, 02:36:05 pm
may I ask what your scale interpretation method was? For instance, mauritus does not exactly have gigantic stony peaks, so is your translation a sort of factor scale of Mauritus? for instance, on this topo map I found, one can place the high point at 828m irl. so would I be correct in saying the tallest mountain present in your map is 295 z levels? or was this point raised to 400z in order to expand and provide more topo detail?

I think your map reveals an important fact about the realistic scale of DF mountains, which is that they are not realistic at all.

If you look at the elevation copypasta, you can see that the highest z-level on the map is 396 on DF's 1-through-400 scale. I figured the extra 4 levels wouldn't add much value but you can easily edit that one point yourself if you'd like. In general, I followed the topography above sea level as closely as possible given that the resolution is 1.536 km squares, though the bathymetry is fudged a bit by taking data from some NASA archive IIRC and squashing it into the 99 z-levels below sea level.

And yeah, while the scale of DF can be accurate in surface area, the game is really lacking in the ability to represent realistic elevation ranges. At 2.8 metres per level, to fit everything from the peak of Mount Everest to the bottom of Challenger Deep, the game would need 7,063 z-levels! As for how it affects the biomes, the only way around that would be to either make your world with no mountains and thus limit yourself to below 560 metres ASL, or have a very cold climate where there actually is a tree line at that altitude. I haven't yet looked to find areas like that in real life yet.

Some other inaccuracies that I know of:

Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Salmeuk on November 12, 2022, 12:00:03 pm
awesome reply, thank you for the context. That's what I suspected, the generated mountains feel right in-game but when you look at the larger geological context they are... flat as pancakes  :D

Quote
the game would need 7,063 z-levels!

someone get Tarn on the line, lets make this happen
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on November 12, 2022, 12:24:35 pm
Mountain climbing in adventure mode is always so disappointing.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Sarai on December 08, 2022, 05:03:33 am
I know we don't have a thread for the 50.01 (Steam version) worldgen yet, but here's a seed I found with a 12-tile-wide river with a 6-tile-wide tributary, a waterfall where they meet, and a surface volcano! Of course doesn't work on 47.05

The Waterfall
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Volcano
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Location on the zoomed-out world map (southeast corner shown)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Location when zoomed in
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Resources (names and neighbors will differ, I used a random civ seed and I don't know how to extract it from a save in the Steam version)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's not a particularly impressive waterfall, just 5 z-levels high. But it's plenty to get you started!

Because Civilizations are still random, you may have someone settled on this location already, preventing you from embarking there. I had to regen twice before it was free for me to embark there.


world_gen.txt (fyi the folder in the Steam version changed from data/init to prefs):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Bainin on December 10, 2022, 05:43:30 am
I have been trying for a while to get a plateau  of sorts i want like a small mountain/plateau  in the middle that i can carve into a shape i want, but i cant seem to get something thats steep or destinct.
Anyone any idea how i could get a plateau? What i mean with that is something along the lines of the Devils Tower, if u google it ur sure to come up with a rough idea what i mean =)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: TheFlame52 on December 11, 2022, 01:40:08 pm
I know almost nothing about terrain gen, but I do know that turning off erosion makes the world a lot more square.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Thea on December 14, 2022, 05:04:34 pm
I know we don't have a thread for the v50 (Steam version) worldgen yet, but here's a worldgen/seed I found with a 2x2 embark with volcano, stream, steel, with sand/clay/honeybees, for those who want to explore DF with a small embark covering most of the industries.  On the large worldmap, it is the central southern volcano by a stream.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: tnuhnivad on January 19, 2023, 08:58:04 pm
I've been working on a new world gen set. Also I learned it is really hard to get creative with the world gen sometimes with civ restrictions. I named this one Arrakis. Elves and tress are but a myth here. Water is very scarce although; civ restrictions and game-play elements there are still small lakes and rivers to allow for humans. Uncertain amount of other drainage to ensure civs place with crops. May get many rejections needs tweaking from someone more experienced than me.

Also I'm playing modded raws so the direct seeds may not work the same for you.

Summary:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

World View:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

World_gen.txt
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


If anyone is able to tweak this in order to never get civ crop placement rejections while having a minimal amount of water please do. Makes for some really cool spots where all the sand colors can meet at a single tile or two. I also noticed with world gen params of these non square dimensi0ns cause crashes frequently during gen and lead to a broken embark search function as it only scan terrain for half the map?
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: Salmeuk on January 19, 2023, 09:11:38 pm
Quote from: tnuhnivad on January 19, 2023, 08:58:04 pm
I've been working on a new world gen set. Also I learned it is really hard to get creative with the world gen sometimes with civ restrictions. I named this one Arrakis. Elves and tress are but a myth here. Water is very scarce although; civ restrictions and game-play elements there are still small lakes and rivers to allow for humans. Uncertain amount of other drainage to ensure civs place with crops. May get many rejections needs tweaking from someone more experienced than me.

Also I'm playing modded raws so the direct seeds may not work the same for you.

Summary:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

World View:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wow, nice concept. This reminds me of the World of Bones succession game. Desert worlds are evocative!
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: tnuhnivad on January 25, 2023, 01:08:02 pm
Quote from: Salmeuk on January 19, 2023, 09:11:38 pm
Desert worlds are evocative!

Thanks! I'm currently playing this world now trying to construct a obsidian and black/white glass mega spire.
Title: Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
Post by: tnuhnivad on October 30, 2023, 05:34:16 am
<dorf> has been possessed!

I titled this param set Sifting Sand.
Legends Viewer:

Summary:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

World View:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
About:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elements:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
World_gen.txt
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Should work in v50+ also