Hi, I figure i don't want to make a explosive post about it, but i need to make some sort of discussional basis of a talking debateYou say "discussion" and "debate" but have already made up your mind.
The June 1 devlog? You mean the Bay 12 Report which made the statement ”though the world is going to hell.” right? Because the main devlog is currently down as far as I know.
Here's the monthly report, and the Future of the Fortress. Sorry for the outages over the last few days. Our site and the Dwarf Fortress File Depot may still be on and offline a bit while we migrate to a new hosting company.
While the protests against the murder of George Floyd and police brutality, and the ensuing police riot, continue in this country, we don't want to be silent, nor do we want to make a generic brand statement. So, specifically, we support efforts to defund the police, as well as those to minimize and abolish incarceration. No amount of protection afforded to white people is worth the horror we continue to perpetuate in this country against millions in marginalized communities. Black lives matter.
It's likely those of you that want to contribute to relevant funds have located some already. We've given to Rebuild Lake Street, the BLM Seattle Freedom Fund, and Reclaim the Block. Minnesota Freedom Fund will be linking additional organizations as well.
I see. Never mind, then.The June 1 devlog? You mean the Bay 12 Report which made the statement ”though the world is going to hell.” right? Because the main devlog is currently down as far as I know.Quote from: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/Here's the monthly report, and the Future of the Fortress. Sorry for the outages over the last few days. Our site and the Dwarf Fortress File Depot may still be on and offline a bit while we migrate to a new hosting company.
While the protests against the murder of George Floyd and police brutality, and the ensuing police riot, continue in this country, we don't want to be silent, nor do we want to make a generic brand statement. So, specifically, we support efforts to defund the police, as well as those to minimize and abolish incarceration. No amount of protection afforded to white people is worth the horror we continue to perpetuate in this country against millions in marginalized communities. Black lives matter.
It's likely those of you that want to contribute to relevant funds have located some already. We've given to Rebuild Lake Street, the BLM Seattle Freedom Fund, and Reclaim the Block. Minnesota Freedom Fund will be linking additional organizations as well.
I don't know what people expected from someone who wrote a game literally called "Liberal Crime Squad". If that wasn't enough, their expanding at length about their precarious healthcare and "the current political situation" when they announced the Steam release should have given people more than definite hints as to the Adams brothers' political orientation.
Anyway I don't see how this has anything to do with Slaves to Armok: Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress. If you want to support the development of the game, donate, if you don't want to, don't donate.
I do not know, if any of these funds are connected to Antifa.It's a pretty easy thing to find out. How about you do that instead of spreading sensationalist FUD.
While the protests against the murder of George Floyd and police brutality, and the ensuing police riot, continue in this country, we don't want to be silent, nor do we want to make a generic brand statement.
So, specifically, we support efforts to defund the police, as well as those to minimize and abolish incarceration.
No amount of protection afforded to white people is worth the horror we continue to perpetuate in this country against millions in marginalized communities. Black lives matter.
So i will be retracting my future finanicial support (not currently being a donator) towards the steam release,
Wow, that was a completely uncalled for and rude post, Lenny.Eat shit.
Yes, the world situation is a bit crazy, but... personal attacks against those who believe differently than you do are out of place.
It looks like some posters are adamant in forcing Toady to deal with this thread, regardless of whether they claim to (sort of) have opinions aligning with his or not.Wow, that was a completely uncalled for and rude post, Lenny.Eat shit.
Yes, the world situation is a bit crazy, but... personal attacks against those who believe differently than you do are out of place.
I do not know, if any of these funds are connected to Antifa.It's a pretty easy thing to find out. How about you do that instead of spreading sensationalist FUD.
QuoteNo amount of protection afforded to white people is worth the horror we continue to perpetuate in this country against millions in marginalized communities. Black lives matter.
If you think this is political then you're part of the problem. Step our of your cave and realize the horror of the modern racial divide.
I feel like called to write some comment, despite still none gave answer to my question.
"Black Lives Matter" policy (Democrats) or opposing it "All Lives Matter" policy (Republicans) - to be honest, I do not care which is superior or inferior, so long USA remains an ally to Poland.
The issue is Antifa. A German socialist cult, acting out alike Nazis from early 20th century. German Antifa tourists were visiting Poland, so terrorism of Antifa is well known to Polish people and well documented. Holokaust memory is still fresh in Poland, specially that Germans still refuse to pay damages to its Polish victims, whom were majority of nationals killed in the Holocaust. An action to outlaw this German socialist cult, as a terrorist organisation (even in Poland) surely wouldn't lift any eyebrows in Poland. So, out of this concern I was writing my question. I wasn't making some political rant, but asked politely what about Dwarf Fortress, because it was missing in Toady's statement on front page. People funding terror organisations do go to prison, everywhere in the democratic world. No matter ideology behind these terror organisations. No matter how people feel justified and right in funding terrorist organisations.
I feel like called to write some comment, despite still none gave answer to my question.
"Black Lives Matter" policy (Democrats) or opposing it "All Lives Matter" policy (Republicans) - to be honest, I do not care which is superior or inferior, so long USA remains an ally to Poland.
The issue is Antifa. A German socialist cult, acting out alike Nazis from early 20th century. German Antifa tourists were visiting Poland, so terrorism of Antifa is well known to Polish people and well documented. Holokaust memory is still fresh in Poland, specially that Germans still refuse to pay damages to its Polish victims, whom were majority of nationals killed in the Holocaust. An action to outlaw this German socialist cult, as a terrorist organisation (even in Poland) surely wouldn't lift any eyebrows in Poland. So, out of this concern I was writing my question. I wasn't making some political rant, but asked politely what about Dwarf Fortress, because it was missing in Toady's statement on front page. People funding terror organisations do go to prison, everywhere in the democratic world. No matter ideology behind these terror organisations. No matter how people feel justified and right in funding terrorist organisations.
There's not much answer to give to such a thoroughly dishonest question. Just because there are some people labelling themselves as antifa who join protests the world over and take things way too far that doesn't mean that anyone involved with or supportive of the original protest becomes a terrorist (even if certain people in power would very much like to use that excuse to lock up any and all protesters, peaceful or not).
As you can see, you'll never get a straight answer from American Liberals because they're particularly resistant to facts and data. They openly attack anyone with a differing viewpoint, and are incapable of debate or accepting opposing viewpoints. They're worse than religious fanatics when it comes to their belief systems. They wont be able to define what any of their catch phrases are, because you're just supposed to have faith that they are right and righteous. Marx had a term for exactly the type of behavior these people are displaying.
So again I say, careful what you wish for. You might just get it.
@Manveru Taurënér
About dishonesty in my question. Where it suppose to be? There is no German custom of white lies in any of our Slavic cultures, with exception to Russia and communists, with their Euro-Asian culture. Russians are a topic for themselves, not related to DF. With Slavs you have to be honest and direct and to the point. Like in the army. With bottle of mead to share, if not something stronger. As Westerner, you may experience conversation with Slavic people as rude and impolite, but how you can call it dishonest?
About Antifa's reputation in Poland. Antifa is not exactly sisters of mercy... No matter who supports them.
About future of socialism in Poland? Beyond hanging from tree after a lynch from an angry Catholic mob, there will never be any.
You looking for dishonesty and lies, look to Western Europe (or to Moscow lol).
I wasn't going to post a second time. But as I'm back I advise OP to move the thread over to (non-DF) General. I wouldn't be surprised if it got Mod-moved (or ROed or removed) but I imagine someone would say that's a sign of bias against some of the messages in this thread, so I call upon the good faith of OP to not make that an issue but to put it in a more appropriate place. IMO.
Huh, I never took the average DF player to be one of a political bent, but it seems many of you have been triggered by a few non-partisan lines written in the context of one of the largest series of protests in modern day. Non-partisan, you scoff? Let's take it point-by-point.
:snip: (rest of post, mainly outlaying a analysis of statements)
So, there is no risk for Toady to get into jail in USA? Even if his donations may end in terrorist organization? Cool. Good to know. It better be so.
DF still has an unsolved issue with emotional system and the zone bug on largest embark, which Toady never bothered to fix. Toady better does not look for "smart" and "innovative" ways out from the deal (no matter his depression) to start continuously fixing (finally!) all those bugs by... getting himself jailed. :P :D
(Seems like this is a Lower Forums subject. Looks funny that I'm seeing it under Upper Forums colour scheme.)I'm sorry but I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on ever allowing light mode. Good day!!
Depressing to see that so many members of the DF community are alt-right or alt-right adjacent CHUDs. On the other hand, it's funto see that these same people that enjoy a game about ASCII dorfs digging holes get so easily wounded when their worldviews are challenged in the least offensive way possible. As Put says, this should probably be redirected onto the appropriate thread (posted above). Better yet, you fascists could just delete your accounts and spare the forums your ignorance/hatred.
I think the OP states sufficiently why it belongs in this section. It's about what Toady posted in the dev log and the ramifications for DF development and donations. That other users have been trying to drag the discussion off-topic or get it locked is not quite a valid reason to move it.That's very obviously not the reason. People have already discussed that Toady made a statement. Everyone then moved on to talking about the political situation behind the statement, ignoring Toady altogether, when there's already a very nice thread for that.
I think the OP states sufficiently why it belongs in this section. It's about what Toady posted in the dev log and the ramifications for DF development and donations. That other users have been trying to drag the discussion off-topic or get it locked is not quite a valid reason to move it.It has nothing to do with the game at all. It's using the game as an excuse to state a political opinion.
But we can dissect that BLM is currently orbiting a state declared terrorist group (ANTIFA) currently under investigation and active use of the Insurrection Act (last deployed in the 1992 riots under similar circumstances) with postings of the National Guard around the country to keep order, so not I do feel like to suddenly come out with this statement publically that player contributions were indirectly funding these groups as misguided altruism could not invoke concern and worry that contributions will be likely used to fuel the situation.
1. There is clear concern in regards to the possibility of funds going to Antifa. As for those saying that it is "merely a concept" I am afraid it is no more such than many middle eastern terrorist groups. As things stand, Antifa has a core ideology book, cells which publicly identify as such with uniforms, sell their uniforms and book of ideology, have clear avenues of funding with business accounts, their cells have hierarchical structures as organizations, etc. They operate much in the way that various gangs or terrorist cells do, and as such can be considered such. Furthermore, members of Antifa have now been linked to murders caused in recent riots, and portray themselves as a communist group, while also taking the name of a historical communist group. As such, it can be legally declared that they are politically motivated, such being the determinator between the difference between such a group being designated as a gang or a terrorist group. With that said, it is unlikely Toady has any risk of seeing jail time, unless Toady himself were active in criminal activity after declaring support for such an organization, or he were directly providing money to the organization rather than second-hand. However, he may see himself put on a watchlist or actively survived. Albeit realistically speaking, in the age of the patriot act, essentially everyone is anyway, if not as in depth.