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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Topic started by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 11:55:14 am

Title: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 11:55:14 am

It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

These are not the tales of those times, nor of mankind's triumphant rise and subsequent fall, nor of the eldar's unquestioned primacy and desolate despair in the wake of near-annihilation, nor of the numberless orkoid's wanton slaughter and perpetual mirth. Rather, these are the tales of a lesser, stranger race, in older days going onward, and the struggles and sagas known, perhaps, to them and them alone. The whims of fate paired with the breadth of their wisdom will determine whether they survive the horrors that await, if not intact, alive and untainted, while the narrowest of branching paths promises they be vaunted and exalted to an empire that may bring the galaxy to shake.

Such thoughts are as far from the present as the rise of man from the first rising of algal murk on Terra's cradle. In this distant era, the most fundamental questions are to be answered and they, more than any other, will determine the future course.

In the infancy of the Milky Way Galaxy, where did the star system soon to be home to this struggling race coalesce?

The Galactic North: In the here and the now distant yet not absent, the system can take solace in idyllic isolation but in time, the story of the eldar will be told and the prospect of enduring its ending is slim to none.
The Galactic East: Only one system amid a sea of nameless stars, the potential for life arising is great indeed, as is the progress that such pitched competition will force on nascent species.
The Galactic West: Farflung and sparse in density, the teeming dark is broken only by the light of nebulae which clog its ranges and give rise to esoteric superstitions among the rare few reared and raised within their embrace.
The Galactic South: Ancient beyond reckoning and bearing thin soil for lively seed, of no consequence to the reaches beyond, its scarcity could be argued as a purchase of precious time to the desperate.
The Galactic Center: Silent now, yet treacherous and terrible in the times to come, any risen here would face man at its grandest height of mercy and wonder, and suffer along their side, legacies of the past forgotten in favour of rabid zeal upon the onset of its dreaded fall.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 01:33:51 pm

...I'm thinking either West, or South with an aim for being a silicon-based species if such is viable.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chubby2man on June 06, 2020, 01:45:45 pm

South
and

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 01:33:51 pm

...I'm thinking either West, or South with an aim for being a silicon-based species if such is viable.

Might be interesting!

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Lidku on June 06, 2020, 01:46:00 pm

Galactic North of course!

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 02:08:49 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 01:33:51 pm

...I'm thinking either West, or South with an aim for being a silicon-based species if such is viable.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There's going to be an extensive preliminary, you're going to be determining the state of the system's star(s), its orbiting satellites, and the planet itself long before we get into the species. From there, you'll be figuring out its evolutionary course, not, did it evolve from the equivalent of one Terran animal or another, but is its bodyplan symmetrical duality, a tubular shape, or asymmetrical and if so, what form does that take? The material composition of the species, their initial place in the ecosystem, and what vestiges of its past remain are all things we'll be going into. Once that's done, you'll be going from the stone age into a spacefaring civilization and trying to survive the difficulties of what happen afterward. I wanted to see what the Bay12 community could do with an alien evolution+civ thread, and figured that since 40k's extremely popular here and there's a lot of overlooked lore on minor xenos and so on, it would be interesting to slot the species into the background there, keep track of the canonical timeline in the side, and see what happens if/when you get into the cosmos.

Remember it didn't go straight from 2k to 40k, the Golden Age leading into 20k is also present, as is the Age of Strife and eventual Great Crusade. The galaxy used to be a much less horrific place and that window of opportunity gives you plenty of time to evolve and develop technology in relative safety. It'll be fun to explore the history from the start to its eventual end, and unless you're extremely lucky and/or clever, you're likely to go through and scrape your way back from a collapse event.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 02:18:08 pm

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 02:08:49 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 01:33:51 pm

...I'm thinking either West, or South with an aim for being a silicon-based species if such is viable.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There's going to be an extensive preliminary, you're going to be determining the state of the system's star(s), its orbiting satellites, and the planet itself long before we get into the species. From there, you'll be figuring out its evolutionary course, not, did it evolve from the equivalent of one Terran animal or another, but is its bodyplan symmetrical duality, a tubular shape, or asymmetrical and if so, what form does that take? The material composition of the species, their initial place in the ecosystem, and what vestiges of its past remain are all things we'll be going into. Once that's done, you'll be going from the stone age into a spacefaring civilization and trying to survive the difficulties of what happen afterward. I wanted to see what the Bay12 community could do with an alien evolution+civ thread, and figured that since 40k's extremely popular here and there's a lot of overlooked lore on minor xenos and so on, it would be interesting to slot the species into the background there, keep track of the canonical timeline in the side, and see what happens if/when you get into the cosmos.

Remember it didn't go straight from 2k to 40k, the Golden Age leading into 20k is also present, as is the Age of Strife and eventual Great Crusade. The galaxy used to be a much less horrific place and that window of opportunity gives you plenty of time to evolve and develop technology in relative safety. It'll be fun to explore the history from the start to its eventual end, and unless you're extremely lucky and/or clever, you're likely to go through and scrape your way back from a collapse event.

Ah, ok. Fair enough.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 06, 2020, 02:18:47 pm

PTW

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 02:21:59 pm

By the way, have a thing. (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-brave-guardsmen-of-spidera-iv-wh40k-humor.244838/)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 02:38:15 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 02:21:59 pm

By the way, have a thing. (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-brave-guardsmen-of-spidera-iv-wh40k-humor.244838/)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I remember seeing this a while back, and it's as great now as it was then. That said, there's nothing saying you need to go full starfish alien or something unspeakable by human standards, a diplomatic approach and preference for pacifism are theoretically doable. The species' diet will probably influence its approach to other species and societal structure, but none of that's set in stone and the end-result is probably going to be out there. For all of the Zoat's failings, the T'au have made it work. On the other hand, there's nothing preventing you from maintaining savagery into the future or dabbling in warp-tech to emulate the example of the Rak'Gol or Yu'Vath.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 02:39:21 pm

I don't know what most of those species names are but ok.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 02:47:48 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 02:39:21 pm

I don't know what most of those species names are but ok.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There has been a dizzying amount of xenos mentions and footnotes in the Codices over the years, and the Lexicanum has a fairly massive comprehensive list. (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_sentient_species) It's some really interesting stuff, and I think it'd be !!FUN!! to see where this goes since there isn't usually much focus on the non-major factions.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 06, 2020, 03:13:58 pm

South, as the relative scarcity will mean that this section is not a target for colonists, thus giving us time to evolve, hopefully. Does this make sense? If I’m not making sense, tell me

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 06, 2020, 03:52:12 pm

West Should I make like a votebox?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 03:57:07 pm

Code: (Votes) [Select]

South (3) Glass, C2, NG
North (1) Lidku
West (1) Chaoskl

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 05:34:46 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 03:57:07 pm

Code: (Votes) [Select]

South (3) Glass, C2, NG
North (1) Lidku
West (1) Chaoskl

The Galactic South, thousands of light-years away from the terrors to come, it is a region far-afield, but the reach of eternal war is far reaching. For now, the planetoids slam and gnash in primordial flux soon to give shape to a star system. Be it dismal or grand, it will be home to one among the Milky Way's myriad races. In the ill-defined center of the swirling display, a cluster of superheated gas burns hot and from it, waves of scorching radiation scour the unworked material. For millennia it will be inimical to all but the hardiest and strangest of life, but in time, it may settle and permit life's emergence.

Countless epochs later, how lenient is the sun's radiation?

Gentle: What little radiation the star emits has little to no bearing on its satellites, such that the dim blue light of its mass is more comforting than piercing. Life would grow here in leisurely ease, but who can say what waits beyond the cradle?
Reasonable: Not unfamiliar to Sol, the sun's radiation is moderate, its dangers are present but not overshadowed by the luminance its orange blaze offers. Much life crawls from the murk surrounding these, this would not be the first and far from the last, different from the others only in what route it chose.
Harsh: Gargantuan and wrathful, the heat and radiation beneath its red glare is raw and hateful in its abundance. What life occurs in its orbit would know only struggle, but the reaches beyond would seem akin to paradise, in the extent of radiation gnawing at their flesh-analogue in the background if nothing else.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 06, 2020, 05:38:12 pm

Quote from: Radiation Vote

Gentile (1) NG
Moderate (0)
Harsh (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 05:51:20 pm

Quote from: Radiation Vote

Gentile (1) NG
Moderate (1) Glass
Harsh (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 06, 2020, 07:03:07 pm

Harsh. WH40k is one of the toughest realities in fiction. Any opportunity to be strong or endure hardship is a plus here. Hell, there is not even a Heaven as we mortals screwed up the spiritual realms via existing ( The Warp.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 06, 2020, 07:18:40 pm

Quote from: Radiation Vote

Gentile (1) NG
Moderate (1) Glass
Harsh (2) TL Rockeater

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 06, 2020, 08:01:32 pm

I think technically the immaterium is currently an ok place. It shouldn't be until the Eldar royally fuck up both figuratively and literally that it becomes the shitshow it is at 40k.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 06, 2020, 09:09:13 pm

Quote from: Radiation Vote

Gentile (1)NG
Moderate (1) Glass
Harsh (3) TL Rockeater, Chaoskl21

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 06, 2020, 09:57:21 pm

Quote from: Chaoskl21 on June 06, 2020, 09:09:13 pm

Quote from: Radiation Vote

Gentile (1)NG
Moderate (1) Glass
Harsh (3) TL Rockeater, Chaoskl21

Harsh. Vast and crimson, the sun pours unthinking malice onto all within its embrace, radioactivity that would render the hardiest of man a scalded mass of tumors in a fraction of Terra's rotation. Most species would deem this system uninhabitable, worthless for settlement outside of what mineral or relic bounty might lie within, but to one, it is their origin, for good or ill. Though they don't yet exist, as the proto-system calms and the sun simmers still, a spiraling planetoid stumbles into tumultuous orbit. It is only one of a few, notable solely in that it's destined to become the site of something more.

How close does this feeble satellite's orbit bring it to the monstrous sun?

Extremely Close: The heat is beyond human comprehension, water boils in open air and if life is here, it has taken a form radically different from what a practitioner of conventional xenobiology would expect.
Somewhat Close: The sun looms large in the atmosphere and its presence is felt, a weight on any who would dare enter its sight, sapience would find cold to be a rare and exotic notion.
Middling: Neither close nor far, close-minded scholars would call this the goldilocks zone and were it not for the radiation, find it no surprise, though there's ample room for variance in temperate climes.
Somewhat Far: The sun is a pinprick against the horizon, distant and felt only in a feeble warmth insufficient to stop the chill, the sole distinction between day and night is the horrible glare burning a hole in the sky or the lack thereof.
Extremely Far: The cold is all-consuming, as is the dark and stark solitude, the planetoid could be said to be a part of the system in that it follows its orbit, and then only slightly, the glint of the sun is scarcely distinguishable from any other star.
Elliptical: Fate is cruel in this universe and it has chosen to afford the future life-forms of this planetoid no respite. Instead of a stable orbit allowing a sense of perpetuity, its orbit brings it spinning close and far, from boiling back to freezing. If life is here, it adheres to an adaptive cycle or it is snuffed out.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Screech9791 on June 06, 2020, 10:43:41 pm

Middling, because fuck it

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Lidku on June 06, 2020, 11:06:56 pm

Middling

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chubby2man on June 06, 2020, 11:14:29 pm

Middling

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 06, 2020, 11:33:35 pm

Eliptical

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 06, 2020, 11:50:50 pm

Neg. middling. Closer would make it more exotic and useful. But the idea our Xenos deals with the radiation akin  to Monsterverse  Kaiju is a plus. ( As yeah in Legendary Godzilla. Earth was supervirradiated in time before Dinosaurs, when Godzilla and his pals roamed the Earth. No not all of us being gigantic monsters, that notion is silly. Is being that damn tough to the point we may evolve energy attack resistance? He’ll yeah.)

Note: Because Tau Ion weaponry, kills you by radiation, the Human Techpriests have guns like that, and Melta guns in general involve atomics. Just throwing that out there.  ( In fiction, Mass Effect Turians got our set up.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 06, 2020, 11:55:09 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 06, 2020, 08:01:32 pm

I think technically the immaterium is currently an ok place. It shouldn't be until the Eldar royally fuck up both figuratively and literally that it becomes the shitshow it is at 40k.

Errr the Immaterium always has pores so, it depends where we are in the time scale. Alan way wa born 10k years before the Imperium of Man stuff, the other 3 Chaos Godscwere made due to humans way back in BC.

Also in narrative the Orks and Nids and Necrons and etc. WH40k is basically stylish Hell as a system of a war game franchise. No way in Hell the killing will ever stop and things are doomed to get worse. Hell if the God Emperor completes his plan for an secular human society, a 5th Chaos God of unbelief would have been born.

The only solution for the Warp is to make everyone in material play nice.

That shit is not happening.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 12:46:40 am

Quote from:  Orbit Vote

Extremely Close: (0)
Somewhat Close: (0)
Middling: (4) 0rca_tr0per, Lidku, chubby2man, Tyrant Leviathan
Somewhat Far: (0)
Extremely Far: (0)
Elliptical: (1) Shadowclaw777

The planetoid's distance from the star could be held to lie in its goldilock's zone, were such possible with a star so extreme. Neither too close or too far, its Middling distance affords it a rare variety in the cosmos, of merciless heat and biting cold, and life within it will learn to endure the same or return to the particulate murk from whence it came. The state of the sun and the planetoid's distance from it are critical factors of how life takes shape, but perhaps not so close as the raw weight.

How large is the planetoid, and consequently, how severe is its gravitational pull?

Tiny: A fourth of Terra's size if not smaller, there is little room for expansion except outward and less for hesitation, as the small resource base demands progress be made. Life-forms on these worlds tend to be lightweight and fragile, but dexterous to compensate and well-suited to zero-gravity.
Small: Close to half of Terra's size, perhaps larger, the weakness of gravity is noticeable, allowing a man to advance in leaps and bounds. Life-forms on these worlds are often slim and feeble by terrestrial standards, though a mite faster and quicker to adjust to zero-gravity conditions.
Moderate: Near exact to Terra, though inevitably a shade smaller or larger, the gravitational pull is neither weak or strong and there's no reliable method of predicting what life could arise, except that it's likely to be somewhere between either of the extremes.
Large: Anywhere between one and half-again the size of Terra or twice so, room to grow is ample but gravity is stubborn, demanding ingenuity or unorthodox methods to escape its well. Life-forms on these worlds are notably hardy and strong, but clumsy in the absence of weight pulling them down.
Enormous: Easily five times the weight of Terra or more, the immensity of its bulk may keep ambitions inward, as does the nigh-insurmountable difficulty of escaping orbit. Life-forms on these worlds often possess hulking strength and toughness, but fare poorly without pressure to accompany them.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 12:50:37 am

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

You won't be able to ignore the implications of gravity entirely, at least as far as the initial challenge of getting the species into space goes, but evolution has myriad paths and none can predict what horrors and wonders may grow under alien stars.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Lidku on June 07, 2020, 12:57:03 am

Moderate

Don't want our species to be gimped from just gravity lol

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 07, 2020, 03:53:24 am

Large

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 04:08:22 am

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (1) NG
Small
Moderate
Large
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 07, 2020, 04:33:19 am

You skipped two votes.

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (1) NG
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (1) King Zultan
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 07, 2020, 06:37:41 am

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (2) NG, Rockeater
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (1) King Zultan
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 07, 2020, 07:02:25 am

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (2) NG, Rockeater
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (2) King Zultan, Chaoskl21
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 07, 2020, 09:54:26 am

I'm voting large. It's 40k and ground strength is worth some extra initial space difficulty.

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (2) NG, Rockeater
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (3) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 10:57:07 am

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

If there's a tie in the next few hours, I'll roll the appropriate dice to determine the result. A 1d2 if it's a two-way tie, a 1d3 for a three-way, etc., just to speed things along. I'm surprised there's this much interest. There's only a few more questions to answer regarding the planet, the amount of moisture on the surface relative to land, the roughness of its topology (smooth/jagged/somewhere in between), the number of its moons, if present, and your choice of pros/cons of the home-world/star system, such as mineral abundance/scarcity, a network of underground caverns or sporadic electromagnetic storms, and so on. When that's done you'll determine some of the basics of how life works on the world, is its organic chemistry carbon-centered, what sort of symmetry do they have, what kind of reproduction and locomotion are most common, and what broad spectrum of Terran phyla it most resembles, if any, which has no bearing on the actual abilities or demeanour of the species.

From there, you'll choose a spot on the ecosystem and the game will begin following the evolutionary ancestor of the species. This is because while I could give you a few choices to determine your own capabilities and psychology then jump straight to civ-crafting, it would be much more fun to evolve the traits you want and some that might be necessary or convenient on your evolutionary journey, before climbing your way up to intelligence with a unique smorgasbord you and the RNG have chosen for yourselves. That phase will be somewhat analogous to this thread from way back, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125778.0) and when it's done you'll follow a primitive civilization from the neolithic era all the way to space in much the same fashion, albeit in a much smaller timescale, and determine what culture, mindset, and organizational methods they default to, as well as what technology might've followed a difference course from humanity's. Once that's done, you'll emerge in the wider galaxy and pray that whatever entities they believe in have mercy on them, or their enemies, depending on what kind of surprisingly civilized and reasonable xenos or death-world abomination that has no right to be as cunning as it is occurs.

Regarding the local timeline as compared to the broader canonical timeline, how that's going is you'll have effectively endless time to evolve, but when you reach a sapient state, you'll be starting at 15,000 BC, (before calendar, as you're xenos) and start ticking toward the 40th millennium at 150 year bites, giving you 100 'turns' until the 0th millennium, at which point it'll lower to 50 year intervals, allowing you to go into the galaxy at any point, up to and including the Dark Age of Technology, Age of Strife, Great Crusade, or at any point in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Be warned, the longer you wait, the more likely it is that the dangers of the galaxy at large take notice of your home-world. Game-over to Orkz or Tyranids is a distinct possibility into the 30th millennium and onward, but your region thankfully spares you the brunt of the Great Crusade and gives you some breathing room. I know this is all convoluted as all hell, but I think this'll be fun and I'm looking forward to it.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 11:24:11 am

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 10:57:07 am

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

If there's a tie in the next few hours, I'll roll the appropriate dice to determine the result. A 1d2 if it's a two-way tie, a 1d3 for a three-way, etc., just to speed things along. I'm surprised there's this much interest. There's only a few more questions to answer regarding the planet, the amount of moisture on the surface relative to land, the roughness of its topology (smooth/jagged/somewhere in between), the number of its moons, if present, and your choice of pros/cons of the home-world/star system, such as mineral abundance/scarcity, a network of underground caverns or sporadic electromagnetic storms, and so on. When that's done you'll determine some of the basics of how life works on the world, is its organic chemistry carbon-centered, what sort of symmetry do they have, what kind of reproduction and locomotion are most common, and what broad spectrum of Terran phyla it most resembles, if any, which has no bearing on the actual abilities or demeanour of the species.

From there, you'll choose a spot on the ecosystem and the game will begin following the evolutionary ancestor of the species. This is because while I could give you a few choices to determine your own capabilities and psychology then jump straight to civ-crafting, it would be much more fun to evolve the traits you want and some that might be necessary or convenient on your evolutionary journey, before climbing your way up to intelligence with a unique smorgasbord you and the RNG have chosen for yourselves. That phase will be somewhat analogous to this thread from way back, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125778.0) and when it's done you'll follow a primitive civilization from the neolithic era all the way to space in much the same fashion, albeit in a much smaller timescale, and determine what culture, mindset, and organizational methods they default to, as well as what technology might've followed a difference course from humanity's. Once that's done, you'll emerge in the wider galaxy and pray that whatever entities they believe in have mercy on them, or their enemies, depending on what kind of surprisingly civilized and reasonable xenos or death-world abomination that has no right to be as cunning as it is occurs.

Regarding the local timeline as compared to the broader canonical timeline, how that's going is you'll have effectively endless time to evolve, but when you reach a sapient state, you'll be starting at 15,000 BC, (before calendar, as you're xenos) and start ticking toward the 40th millennium at 150 year bites, giving you 100 'turns' until the 0th millennium, at which point it'll lower to 50 year intervals, allowing you to go into the galaxy at any point, up to and including the Dark Age of Technology, Age of Strife, Great Crusade, or at any point in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Be warned, the longer you wait, the more likely it is that the dangers of the galaxy at large take notice of your home-world. Game-over to Orkz or Tyranids is a distinct possibility into the 30th millennium and onward, but your region thankfully spares you the brunt of the Great Crusade and gives you some breathing room. I know this is all convoluted as all hell, but I think this'll be fun and I'm looking forward to it.

this is amazing, it’s like if Spore had much more freedom than it ended up with. The combination of guiding alien life’s evolution and creating a civilization, and multiple minds working, this will be very interesting

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 07, 2020, 01:25:47 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (3) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur
Enormous

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 07, 2020, 02:57:18 pm

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 07, 2020, 01:25:47 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (4) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL
Enormous

Gravity toughness is good. Sure an penalty, just not as bad as full size. ( Max size.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 07, 2020, 03:27:20 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (5) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass
Enormous

I'd frankly have chosen Small - we could hypothetically develop machinery for the heavy lifting part of stuff - but failing that, I prefer Large to Tiny.

I'd like to note that it's been suggested that planets in that Large space would be the ideal candidates for life, as the higher gravity would result in an overall flatter planet, with both mountains and seas being shallower and easier to cross - and a shallow sea is also more likely to get more life, with the extra sunlight.
Not that that helps as much with the extra-radioactive star we've got, but whatever.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 03:34:06 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (6) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Enormous

No, I don't know how Warhammer 40k works. I'm just here for the chaos... and possibly playing a part in causing it. If you don't want me in here, disregard my vote.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 07, 2020, 03:58:26 pm

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 03:34:06 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (6) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Enormous

No, I don't know how Warhammer 40k works. I'm just here for the chaos... and possibly playing a part in causing it. If you don't want me in here, disregard my vote.

Please don't Chaos. I don't want us to die in a maelstrom of mutation and fuckery.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 07, 2020, 04:31:14 pm

Chaos is bad. Like really bad. Only 2 good things from the Warp.

The FTL and Psionic powers. Though it is shown in the lore races can be Psionic without Warp ( Nids, the Orks were designed to be natural Psykers to an extent.)

Also the only factions worth playing nice are Eldar ( who will sacrifice you to save their skins.) and Tau ( who will brain wash you to their beliefs.)

Everyone else including chaos will most likely murder us.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 05:05:53 pm

Quote from: Lidku on June 07, 2020, 12:57:03 am

Moderate

Don't want our species to be gimped from just gravity lol

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 07, 2020, 09:54:26 am

I'm voting large. It's 40k and ground strength is worth some extra initial space difficulty.

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (2) NG, Rockeater
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (3) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur
Enormous

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There are advantages to either spectrum of the gravitational extreme, as well as the balance that comes from sitting somewhere in the center. Any disadvantages can be overcome with time and effort, but removing them will take time and effort.

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 11:24:11 am

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 10:57:07 am

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

If there's a tie in the next few hours, I'll roll the appropriate dice to determine the result. A 1d2 if it's a two-way tie, a 1d3 for a three-way, etc., just to speed things along. I'm surprised there's this much interest. There's only a few more questions to answer regarding the planet, the amount of moisture on the surface relative to land, the roughness of its topology (smooth/jagged/somewhere in between), the number of its moons, if present, and your choice of pros/cons of the home-world/star system, such as mineral abundance/scarcity, a network of underground caverns or sporadic electromagnetic storms, and so on. When that's done you'll determine some of the basics of how life works on the world, is its organic chemistry carbon-centered, what sort of symmetry do they have, what kind of reproduction and locomotion are most common, and what broad spectrum of Terran phyla it most resembles, if any, which has no bearing on the actual abilities or demeanour of the species.

From there, you'll choose a spot on the ecosystem and the game will begin following the evolutionary ancestor of the species. This is because while I could give you a few choices to determine your own capabilities and psychology then jump straight to civ-crafting, it would be much more fun to evolve the traits you want and some that might be necessary or convenient on your evolutionary journey, before climbing your way up to intelligence with a unique smorgasbord you and the RNG have chosen for yourselves. That phase will be somewhat analogous to this thread from way back, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125778.0) and when it's done you'll follow a primitive civilization from the neolithic era all the way to space in much the same fashion, albeit in a much smaller timescale, and determine what culture, mindset, and organizational methods they default to, as well as what technology might've followed a difference course from humanity's. Once that's done, you'll emerge in the wider galaxy and pray that whatever entities they believe in have mercy on them, or their enemies, depending on what kind of surprisingly civilized and reasonable xenos or death-world abomination that has no right to be as cunning as it is occurs.

Regarding the local timeline as compared to the broader canonical timeline, how that's going is you'll have effectively endless time to evolve, but when you reach a sapient state, you'll be starting at 15,000 BC, (before calendar, as you're xenos) and start ticking toward the 40th millennium at 150 year bites, giving you 100 'turns' until the 0th millennium, at which point it'll lower to 50 year intervals, allowing you to go into the galaxy at any point, up to and including the Dark Age of Technology, Age of Strife, Great Crusade, or at any point in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Be warned, the longer you wait, the more likely it is that the dangers of the galaxy at large take notice of your home-world. Game-over to Orkz or Tyranids is a distinct possibility into the 30th millennium and onward, but your region thankfully spares you the brunt of the Great Crusade and gives you some breathing room. I know this is all convoluted as all hell, but I think this'll be fun and I'm looking forward to it.

this is amazing, it’s like if Spore had much more freedom than it ended up with. The combination of guiding alien life’s evolution and creating a civilization, and multiple minds working, this will be very interesting

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm glad you like the idea, going from an alien evolution game into an alien civ-builder and then trying to take the end result and see if it can carve out a niche for itself in the go-to dark and terrible sci-fi setting. Bay12 being Bay12, I'm certain the developed species will fit into the galaxy quite nicely, one way or another.

Quote from: Glass on June 07, 2020, 03:27:20 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (5) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass
Enormous

I'd frankly have chosen Small - we could hypothetically develop machinery for the heavy lifting part of stuff - but failing that, I prefer Large to Tiny.

I'd like to note that it's been suggested that planets in that Large space would be the ideal candidates for life, as the higher gravity would result in an overall flatter planet, with both mountains and seas being shallower and easier to cross - and a shallow sea is also more likely to get more life, with the extra sunlight.
Not that that helps as much with the extra-radioactive star we've got, but whatever.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

True, overcoming scalding radiation will be a significant hurdle but once it's overcome, your genome equivalent will have a massive resistance toward that kind of damage. Huh, come to think of it, if humanity was near-immune to radiation the Cold War probably would've went hot. That has some worrying implications but depending on what route you choose to take with the species' psychology and civilization, the concept of nukes or nuking themselves into the stone might not even occur to them.

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 03:34:06 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (6) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Enormous

No, I don't know how Warhammer 40k works. I'm just here for the chaos... and possibly playing a part in causing it. If you don't want me in here, disregard my vote.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Knowledge of Warhammer 40k is not in any way, shape, or form a requirement, and if anything, not having any meta-preconceptions or idea of what to expect is an advantage because there's no bias there. I'm glad to have you here, everyone probably already has loads of ideas for the evolutionary cycle and I'm ecstatic to see how they develop and mesh together into something nobody would've thought of on their own.

Quote from: Glass on June 07, 2020, 03:58:26 pm

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 03:34:06 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (6) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Enormous

No, I don't know how Warhammer 40k works. I'm just here for the chaos... and possibly playing a part in causing it. If you don't want me in here, disregard my vote.

Please don't Chaos. I don't want us to die in a maelstrom of mutation and fuckery.

Quote from: Tyrant Leviathan on June 07, 2020, 04:31:14 pm

Chaos is bad. Like really bad. Only 2 good things from the Warp.

The FTL and Psionic powers. Though it is shown in the lore races can be Psionic without Warp ( Nids, the Orks were designed to be natural Psykers to an extent.)

Also the only factions worth playing nice are Eldar ( who will sacrifice you to save their skins.) and Tau ( who will brain wash you to their beliefs.)

Everyone else including chaos will most likely murder us.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Interacting with the Immaterium and/or evolving a variant of gestalt psychic potential is a distinct possibility, but doing so without some sort of innate resistance or protective shroud could be a serious problem when the Warp gets more turbulent later on, or not, depending on where your priorities lie.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 05:58:54 pm

Quote from: Planet Size

Tiny (3) NG, Rockeater, SC777
Small
Moderate (1) Lidku
Large (6) King Zultan, Chaoskl21, Nirur, TL, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Enormous

Large, twice and half again the size of Terra, the planetoid- now planet- hurtles through the void, in a chaotic circular pattern akin to the winding of a sling before its stone is slung. Appearances aside, the planet is stable in its gravity well and slowly but surely, over the course of eons comes to settle in its course. In time, the pyroclastic flows cool, the tectonic plates slow, and between the boiling heat and freezing cold, liquid water has room to emerge. The source of most life-forms, it's often thought of as essential to organic existence and it is, at least for those organics whose internal chemistry is based on carbon. Amid the goldilocks zone, some amount of moisture is inevitable but just how much is variable.

What amount of the planet's surface is covered in water?

1%: A desolate hellscape fit to reduce the Sahara to a paltry stroll, what wellsprings exist will be fiercely contested and the capacity to endure the all-consuming thirst will be essential to survival.
20%: What few 'seas' exist are closer to great lakes and the vast expanse between them is arid and parched at best, perhaps the sole comfort is that any life to evolve here would be used to the scarcity.
50%: As even a split as there truly can be, the oceans are small and anemic, but they are oceans all the same and easily marked continents are present, rather than a monolithic wasteland broken by jagged rises.
70%: Only a mite drier than Terra, the oceans fill most of the world's surface and insist on separating the continents in a vast gulf only detailed adaptions or intricate technology can hope to traverse.
90%: There are few continents, those that exist are so small and far apart that the course life's emergence takes is likely to be radically different from one to the next, though convergent evolution is not absent.
99%: Not a vast gulf but a yawning abyss, the only land mass to be found is in scattered islands, each bone-dry and pathetic, but beneath the sun-scorched waves life, sheltered but not soft, prospers in spite.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Water Coverage: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 07, 2020, 06:04:13 pm

99%

Why not let's be aquatic sapient life, you don't see that much in this universe.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 07, 2020, 06:11:08 pm

20% We already have a harsh sun, why not go full desert species

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 07, 2020, 06:14:19 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (1) Glass
70% (0)
90% (0)
99% (1) SCWe can be desert without without having the whole of the planet be connected. Having some continental divisions may provide us some interesting divergences.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 07, 2020, 06:19:24 pm

I say 70 percent water. We could be akin to Humanity, just not as evolved apes.

Also if full blown aquatics we will need volcanos for alloys and liquid tanks for breathing in space vehicles. Amphibian could be cool though I guess.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 06:24:52 pm

(clarification: I'm here for the chaos that inevitably unfolds. As far as I know, it's very hard to play a game without something going insanely disorderedly.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 07, 2020, 06:31:20 pm

I expect that 50% gets us more resources and relatively easy pop cap+ through irrigation, while 70% gets us to the pop cap easier and gets us more varied cultures. I'd like either, but 50%'s probably harsher for the evolving people, so I'll go with that.
And don't go aquatic, that shields us from our precious radiation and makes it even harder to reach space.

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (2) Glass, Nirur
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 06:51:03 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (2) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SCOnce again, if you don't want me voting, ignore my vote. I'd have gone for >20% <50% if such an option existed.
Oh, and while I'm at it. I don't suppose the origin planet will ever have a name?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 07:06:42 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (3) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 06:51:03 pm

Once again, if you don't want me voting, ignore my vote. I'd have gone for >20% <50% if such an option existed.
Oh, and while I'm at it. I don't suppose the origin planet will ever have a name?

we don’t ignore votes here, votes are the essence of a suggestion game, also, you could vote for whichever one is closer to what percentage you want, so if you wanted 25%, you could vote for 20%, or if you want 40%, you could vote for 50%, or you could ask Ardent Debator if you could add a write in percentage to the vote box.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 07:28:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 07:06:42 pm

we don’t ignore votes here, votes are the essence of a suggestion game, also, you could vote for whichever one is closer to what percentage you want, so if you wanted 25%, you could vote for 20%, or if you want 40%, you could vote for 50%, or you could ask Ardent Debator if you could add a write in percentage to the vote box.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference. Not changing my vote though.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 07:38:07 pm

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 07:28:46 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 07, 2020, 07:06:42 pm

we don’t ignore votes here, votes are the essence of a suggestion game, also, you could vote for whichever one is closer to what percentage you want, so if you wanted 25%, you could vote for 20%, or if you want 40%, you could vote for 50%, or you could ask Ardent Debator if you could add a write in percentage to the vote box.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference. Not changing my vote though.

and you don’t have to. I was just tossing possible ideas. You have no obligation to follow any of the, if you do not wish to

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 07, 2020, 08:47:29 pm

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 06:24:52 pm

(clarification: I'm here for the chaos that inevitably unfolds. As far as I know, it's very hard to play a game without something going insanely disorderedly.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

As good a motivation as any, life is disordered, by choice or necessity.

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 07, 2020, 06:51:03 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (2) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SCOnce again, if you don't want me voting, ignore my vote. I'd have gone for >20% <50% if such an option existed.
Oh, and while I'm at it. I don't suppose the origin planet will ever have a name?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, your vote was included in the last update and won. None were ignored at all and I don't intend to start. The options at the end of my posts are closer to suggestions than concrete choices, the option of voting for something else is always available. The planet doesn't have a name yet because there isn't a sapient species around to decide on it, but it'll receive a designation in due time.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 07, 2020, 09:03:40 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (2) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

I also took the liberty of preparing some Earth maps with various water coverage percentages to make it easier to visualize them:

Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/UbjbVx2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/5G4gNWZ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/bcgto23.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gkKbWY5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/MuZQQoC.png)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 07, 2020, 09:38:15 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (4) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SCQuick votebox recalibration.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 12:33:33 am

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (5) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, Madman
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

If you want to be silicate-based life still, you probably need less water to make it more...plausible. Otherwise standard, carbon-based life seems the most probable option since we find carbon-based compounds like amino acids everywhere, but not really any silicon equivalents.

An alternative (and probably more reasonable) possibility is carbon-based with healthy amounts of some other material, iron or silicon or the like, used in parts. Such as the calcium plate-based defenses of some armored dinosaurs. Perhaps something like that could be made to be necessary as a result of the radiation danger on the surface... or maybe we're just going to have a massively powerful ozone layer and accidentally kill ourselves with Freon in about four billion years.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 08, 2020, 03:59:18 am

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (6) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, Madman, King Zultan
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 08, 2020, 05:49:01 am

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (6) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, Madman, King Zultan
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (2) SC, Rockeater


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 10:42:15 am

Quote from: Kilojoule Proton on June 07, 2020, 09:03:40 pm

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (2) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

I also took the liberty of preparing some Earth maps with various water coverage percentages to make it easier to visualize them:

Spoiler: Maps (click to show/hide)

(https://i.imgur.com/UbjbVx2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/5G4gNWZ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/bcgto23.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gkKbWY5.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/MuZQQoC.png)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This is very impressive and gives me a much clearer view of the scope, thank you for posting.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 12:33:33 am

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (5) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, Madman
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (1) SC

If you want to be silicate-based life still, you probably need less water to make it more...plausible. Otherwise standard, carbon-based life seems the most probable option since we find carbon-based compounds like amino acids everywhere, but not really any silicon equivalents.

An alternative (and probably more reasonable) possibility is carbon-based with healthy amounts of some other material, iron or silicon or the like, used in parts. Such as the calcium plate-based defenses of some armored dinosaurs. Perhaps something like that could be made to be necessary as a result of the radiation danger on the surface... or maybe we're just going to have a massively powerful ozone layer and accidentally kill ourselves with Freon in about four billion years.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There are many ways a developing life-form could endure the radiation from the sun, some more effective than others. Evolving some resistance will likely be a massive part of the early stage.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 11:15:09 am

Code: (Water votes) [Select]

1% (0)
20% (1) Chaoskl
50% (6) Glass, Nirur, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, Madman, King Zultan
70% (1) Tyrant Leviathan
90% (0)
99% (2) SC, Rockeater

A mere fifty percent of the planet's surface is covered by shallow seas, and apart from the quasi-moist coastal regions, much of the interior is a desolate waste bereft of any water save rare underground reservoirs and what little clings to the flow of almost-established, fluctuating wind patterns. The sun's merciless rays shall one day bombard unprepared life-forms on its surface into ragged, warped husks of their former selves, but this hideous radioactivity has little bearing on the erosion of stone. Instead, an intricate array of grinding water, cutting wind, and writhing tectonic plates carve the surface as they see fit, and in time, myriad life-forms may come to see the particulars of the geography sculpted millions of years before the local equivalent of mewling birth as their default.

Viewed from above, how would the surface's texture best be called?

Shattered: The victim of meteoric impact or constant subterranean shifting, the world is comprised of endless mountains piercing the atmosphere and valleys gouging far into the crust. Such a perilous environ demands appendages capable of keeping the pace.
Jagged: The surface is replete with vast mountain ranges and deep gorges, what flat lands are there lie beneath the shadows or undercut by the colossal landscape. To surmount these heights and depths is key, but there is room to breathe, and while recommended, it is not strictly required.
Rough: Broadly similar to Terra, mountains are found in abundance but they are small, and true canyons are a rarity except when rivers are involved, and then only temporary. It's difficult to predict what form of locomotion could arise here of all places.
Smooth: Mountains are a vanishingly uncommon phenomenon, the surface is dominated by endless plains feeding into rolling hills and back again, perhaps ideal for life, where it not for the crimson apparition closer to a molten wound than a nurturing star above. The challenge of traversing the flatlands with speed and efficiency is likely to be emphasized.
Immaculate: An aberration in an anarchic galaxy, the curvature of this surface could be compared to polished glass and remains unchanged from horizon to horizon. The greatest dips are the rare coastlines, and while life isn't likely to have any focus on handling sharp angles, what it can do with ample room to move remains to be seen.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 11:21:07 am

Hmn... I'm going to vote Jagged.

Code: (Terrain vote) [Select]

Shattered (0)
Jagged (1) Glass
Rough (0)
Smooth (0)
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 11:28:16 am

Smoother terrain would be of assistance in escaping the gravity well and some advanced science, but rougher terrain will help us hide from the SUN and create artificial bodies of water. I too will go with Jagged.

Code: (Terrain vote) [Select]

Shattered (0)
Jagged (2) Glass, MetalSlimeHunt
Rough (0)
Smooth (0)
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 11:30:18 am

Code: (Planetary Topology) [Select]

Shattered
Jagged (3) Glass, MSG, NG
Rough
Smooth
Immaculate


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 08, 2020, 11:54:50 am

Code: (Votebox) [Select]

Shattered
Jagged (4]Glass, MSG, NG, Chaoskl21
Rough
Smooth
Immaculate


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 11:55:52 am

Nature what have you done

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 08, 2020, 12:05:30 pm

Code: (Votebox) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (4) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21
Rough
Smooth
Immaculate


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 12:45:19 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 11:55:52 am

Nature what have you done

Quoted the GM post, deleted all except the options,

Code: [Select]

[code=Planetary Twrrain] as the header, and ended code at the bottom of the list, added the votes that were posted during the making, and added where my vote was, then posted

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 12:51:51 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (4) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21
Rough (0)
Smooth (0)
Immaculate (0)Votebox recalibration. Again.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Blood_Librarian on June 08, 2020, 01:19:00 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (5) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian
Rough (0)
Smooth (0)
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 08, 2020, 01:33:31 pm

Yeah Jagged is no brainer here.

Otherwise all life is uniformly the same if a smoother world and shattered is just disaster waiting to happen.

On broad with Jagged.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Screech9791 on June 08, 2020, 01:55:47 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (6) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian, 0cra
Rough (0)
Smooth (0)
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 08, 2020, 01:59:46 pm

I'll be a voice of dissent. Smooth will have us evolve to be more enduring, and force life to evolve to deal with the radiation instead of only dealing with it in bursts. More flatlands should mean a much better pop cap, and we should have a vastly easier time with controlling a large pre-space empire.
In the far future, Chaos cultists won't have ready-made hiding spots everywhere across our homeworld.

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (6) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian, Ocra
Rough (0)
Smooth (1) Nirur
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Funk on June 08, 2020, 02:08:07 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (7) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian, Ocra, Funk
Rough (0)
Smooth (1) Nirur
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 08, 2020, 02:16:53 pm

Quote from: Funk on June 08, 2020, 02:08:07 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (8) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian, Ocra, Funk, TL
Rough (0)
Smooth (1) Nirur
Immaculate (0)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 02:44:42 pm

Code: (Terrain Vote) [Select]

Shattered (1) KJP
Jagged (8) Glass, MSH, NG, Chaoskl21, Blood_Librarian, Ocra, Funk, TL
Rough (0)
Smooth (1) Nirur
Immaculate (0)
The planet, a jagged shell clinging to a molten core, looping around a hellish star as oceans churn stone and are cleaved apart when the continents shift in turn. It is one in numberless multitudes, notable only in that it's numbered among the few tens of thousands fated to give rise to thinking life, and can stand proud, as its progeny emerged from no machination of the Old Ones yet to be born, but from the murk, evident in and of themselves, adhering to a purpose that they, and they alone will choose when they venture out into the vicious cosmos. Whether they will rise to the challenge with the tenacity of a feral beast made mindful or bend and crumble beneath the weight of what awaits them remains to be seen. What matters now is the sky over the mountains.

How many moons will the life-forms to grow here one day perceive, with senses wholly familiar or unknown and utterly loathsome to man?

None: Above lays only the tapestry of stars, a soft blanket shrouding the world and sparing its shores the rigor of tides even as the sun's searing radiance chokes it. However, this is a false comfort as there is nothing to shield from meteorite strikes but naked luck, the calculation of time from the celestial spheres is made difficult, and when night falls, it does so with a stygian totality unknown to humanity.
One: Solitary and immense in singularity, a titanic sphere orbits the world in microcosm of its own orbit around the sun, as Luna unto Terra. Apart from the rare eclipse and steady, predictable flow of tidal waves, the lunar circle undergoes shifts that make the keeping of time intuitive, and while many nights are dark indeed, most have some lingering light in concert with the petty satellite's current phase.
Two: Unusual but far from unheard of, two moons twist and turn in a cyclic motion around the world, catching asteroids with a fraction more reliability than one could alone and between the two of them, forcing the oceans into a rapid shifting of tides to and fro and keeping the surface below awash with luminescence, day or night, to the life-forms here, true darkness is an alien and unthinkable thing.
Many: Bizarre but not absurd, three or more satellites orbit the world in a rhythmic dance that will doubtless see the fields of astronomy and theology one and the same, even as they drive the seas to spastic madness and ensure that, be it day or be it night, the world is lit at a frenzied intensity that would require some form of protection for frail human optics, lest exposure see their lens damaged beyond repair.

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 08, 2020, 03:06:42 pm

Code: (Number of Moons Vote List) [Select]

None (0)
One (0)
Two (0)
Three (1?) (write-in sort of thing) IncompetentFortressMaker
Many (1?) IncompetentFortressMaker if Three isn't a suitable proposition
Yes, my vote is mildly uncertain and the naming of the "votebox" may be a tad fancy, but so be it.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 03:07:27 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (0)
One (0)
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (1?) IFM

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 08, 2020, 03:14:54 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (0)
One (1) KJP
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (1?) IFM

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 08, 2020, 03:20:32 pm

\

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (0)
One (1) KJP
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (2?) IFM, Rockeater

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 03:24:58 pm

I'd like to note that I'm pretty sure that having more moons will mostly mean that there's semi-frequently a moon in front of the sun during the day and always something reflecting the sun at night. It won't be very luminescent nights - they cannot reflect more than the sun would shine without somehow focusing the reflections, which will be improbable - but rather something more akin to perpetual twilight.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:25:34 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (1) KJP
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (2?) IFM, Rockeater

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Lidku on June 08, 2020, 03:30:45 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (2) KJP, Lidku
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (2?) IFM, Rockeater

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 03:33:18 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (2) KJP, Lidku
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (3?) IFM, Rockeater, NG

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 03:37:26 pm

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 08, 2020, 03:06:42 pm

Code: (Number of Moons Vote List) [Select]

None (0)
One (0)
Two (0)
Three (1?) (write-in sort of thing) IncompetentFortressMaker
Many (1?) IncompetentFortressMaker if Three isn't a suitable proposition
Yes, my vote is mildly uncertain and the naming of the "votebox" may be a tad fancy, but so be it.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Voting for Three specifically is perfectly fine, if Many passes, I'll roll 2d3, and then roll that many more d3s to determine how many satellites there are, since a Large planet can handle quite a few, assuming they're smaller than Luna.

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 03:24:58 pm

I'd like to note that I'm pretty sure that having more moons will mostly mean that there's semi-frequently a moon in front of the sun during the day and always something reflecting the sun at night. It won't be very luminescent nights - they cannot reflect more than the sun would shine without somehow focusing the reflections, which will be improbable - but rather something more akin to perpetual twilight.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's a fair point, but the constant exposure would damage eyes adapted to handling the reflection from a single moon and as many as eight or nine, potentially more, each reflecting the same amount of the sun's light would make the night (and day) sky much brighter. Imagine stepping outside during the night and there being five moons, two full and three in a crescent, it'd be comparable to broad daylight, and a sky-full would cause eye-strain. Maybe not immediate or on par with a welding arc, but nothing sustainable in the long run without protective gear. I'm no astronomer, but I am trying to cover all of the planet's bases and keep the consequences of your choices as reasonable as I can.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:42:47 pm

What I know for sure is that orbit eccentricity increases steadily as the number of relatively-large satellites increases. If our own system is any indication, even a Super-Earth with five moons is going to have some wild orbital systems.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 03:48:57 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:42:47 pm

What I know for sure is that orbit eccentricity increases steadily as the number of relatively-large satellites increases. If our own system is any indication, even a Super-Earth with five moons is going to have some wild orbital systems.

I believe that the assumption is that more moons = smaller moons.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:54:53 pm

Sure, but to even be a moon instead of a temporally-captured asteroid for a terrestrial planet there's going to be a higher relative degree of mass between the planet and moons than for a gas giant. More eccentricity is inevitable.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 03:58:48 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:42:47 pm

What I know for sure is that orbit eccentricity increases steadily as the number of relatively-large satellites increases. If our own system is any indication, even a Super-Earth with five moons is going to have some wild orbital systems.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Correct, but the more moons there are, the smaller each one will be. Think more Jupiter in relation to its satellites, not so much five Charon-to-Pluto, or Luna-to-Terra equivalents. At a certain point a number of moons does have an impact on orbit, but the planet's movement is stable enough that it won't be spiraling into the sun or out of sun, though it could be brought closer or farther if an extinction-grade event occurs. Likewise, having that many moons could cause one of the smallest's orbit to grow unstable and impact the surface, similar to a conventional meteorite. If the species goes extinct, you'll change perspective to its closest surviving relative. The life-forms will be starting at an extremely primitive macroscopic scale.

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 03:48:57 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:42:47 pm

What I know for sure is that orbit eccentricity increases steadily as the number of relatively-large satellites increases. If our own system is any indication, even a Super-Earth with five moons is going to have some wild orbital systems.

I believe that the assumption is that more moons = smaller moons.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Also correct.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 03:54:53 pm

Sure, but to even be a moon instead of a temporally-captured asteroid for a terrestrial planet there's going to be a higher relative degree of mass between the planet and moons than for a gas giant. More eccentricity is inevitable.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

It effects what kinds of disasters are likely to occur, over many hundreds of millions of years. Terra itself went through five extinction events and this planet will likely undergo one or two. Every turn, I'll be rolling a 1d10 to see if anything occurs, a 1 being a negative and a 10 being a positive change. Each time I land on a 1 or 10, I'll roll again, and if it's another 1 or 10, respectively, the extent of the change increases exponentially, for or against your favor. Bacteria learning to produce oxygen and driving their competitors extinct is an example that could go either way, depending on which broad side you're supporting.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 04:06:47 pm

I'll note that I'm willing to support any quantity of moons in the range of... let's say 2-4. I'm not terribly interested in having the amount of moons we're likely to get from (2d3)d3, especially if they're largely going to be smaller. Multiple moons is fun, but they need to be sufficiently large to be worth much.

EDIT: Here's the probability table and graph:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/303715036202008586/719659286896181288/unknown.png)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 08, 2020, 04:07:16 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 03:33:18 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (3)  KJP, Lidku, TL
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (3?) IFM, Rockeater, NG

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 04:25:34 pm

The astrophysicist perspective, because of course I have to bring that it :P

Many moons will force the moons to be spread out over a large range of distances from the planet (or they'll be unstable), and will act to either eject some of them (a phenomenon that progresses fast enough that no life would be around to see it happen) or reduce the eccentricity of the orbits until they all lie roughly in the same plane, the same thing that creates rings out of chaotic debris fields.

We would definitely NOT be making nighttime bright enough to harm anything, that's just...honestly kind of a silly extreme that is physically impossible to reach. Our Moon is an aberration in that it's absolutely huge compared to the size of our planet, most moons would be substantially smaller. Especially if you want many of them in a dynamically unstable system, which would basically consist of a constant stream of moons being tossed out and new asteroids being captured. One fun possibility could be a combination---one large moon comparable to Earth's (or larger, why can't we have a double planet? :P ) combined with a constant stream of large rocks from space to make life both extremely hazardous and interesting.

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (3)  KJP, Lidku, TL
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4?) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman

Why not !!FUN!!?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 08, 2020, 04:34:46 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (4) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4?) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman
Please don’t put your vote in more than a single area IFM, as all it does is confuses things

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 08, 2020, 04:39:11 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (5) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4?) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 08, 2020, 04:39:48 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (5) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (5) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 05:06:11 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (6) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (5) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman, NirurI'd prefer one large moon to a bunch of small ones.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 08, 2020, 05:10:10 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (6) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, NirurOn the request of Shadowclaw777, I'm posting here to clarify my vote in case of potential confusion. The only reason I had my vote on "Many" in the first place was in case "Three" didn't work out; thus, I have retracted my vote for Many in favor of Three, on the assumption that's even possible, as that was my original intention. Apologies for any problems caused.

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 08, 2020, 04:34:46 pm

Please don’t put your vote in more than a single area IFM, as all it does is confuses things

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 05:24:49 pm

I passed on this earlier because I wasn't sure how much connection to Warhammer 40K there would be. Reading the thread now, I've got to say I'm sorry I missed out.

I have to express my own skepticism that more moons makes the sky bright enough to harm vision. If familiar Luna and Sol are our measuring stick: Sol is more than 150,000 times brighter! (Apparent magnitude -13 vs. apparent magnitude -26.7 works out to a factor of about 2.512^13.) Anything that can process daylight safely isn't likely to be bothered by plausible amounts of moonlight. Maybe very bright moons (more reflective and/or refractive than ours) will not be viewed directly just as the primary star is not, but ambient light levels will not reverse the definitions of "day" and "night".

That said, one strategy to mitigate all that radiation could be to use the planet itself as a shield and become aggressively nocturnal. Our future native species may indeed be light sensitive, but I don't know that any hypothetical visiting humans would be discomfited.

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (6) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 06:11:53 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 04:06:47 pm

I'll note that I'm willing to support any quantity of moons in the range of... let's say 2-4. I'm not terribly interested in having the amount of moons we're likely to get from (2d3)d3, especially if they're largely going to be smaller. Multiple moons is fun, but they need to be sufficiently large to be worth much.

EDIT: Here's the probability table and graph:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/303715036202008586/719659286896181288/unknown.png)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Thanks for the graph, that's about the probability spread I had in mind, trending toward an abundance of moons because the planet is Large and of course, the 40k setting trends toward extremes. Number of moons notwithstanding, there's an equivalent amount of material between 2-4 large moons and 8-10 much smaller moons. Their light gravity wells would make traveling to and from their surfaces marginally more efficient with low-tech means, as well.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 04:25:34 pm

The astrophysicist perspective, because of course I have to bring that it :P

Many moons will force the moons to be spread out over a large range of distances from the planet (or they'll be unstable), and will act to either eject some of them (a phenomenon that progresses fast enough that no life would be around to see it happen) or reduce the eccentricity of the orbits until they all lie roughly in the same plane, the same thing that creates rings out of chaotic debris fields.

We would definitely NOT be making nighttime bright enough to harm anything, that's just...honestly kind of a silly extreme that is physically impossible to reach. Our Moon is an aberration in that it's absolutely huge compared to the size of our planet, most moons would be substantially smaller. Especially if you want many of them in a dynamically unstable system, which would basically consist of a constant stream of moons being tossed out and new asteroids being captured. One fun possibility could be a combination---one large moon comparable to Earth's (or larger, why can't we have a double planet? :P ) combined with a constant stream of large rocks from space to make life both extremely hazardous and interesting.

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (3)  KJP, Lidku, TL
Two (1) Glass
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4?) IFM, Rockeater, NG, Madman

Why not !!FUN!!?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I have to confess, I myself am not an astrophysicist, nor do I profess to have any more than an amateur with a computer's understanding of astronomy. I vaguely remembered seeing a documentary mentioning that numerous moons could cause optical damage to the human eye but after reading the thread and fact-checking, I see I was misinformed and/or mis-remembering the specifics, which were that the constant light would decimate someone's sleep cycle, which is completely unrelated to the intensity of the light they're reflecting. I'm glad I can say I knew that much about the orbital mechanics and that would've been on-point. I appreciate the patience and apologize for any gaps in your immersion.

If nothing else, 40k has no shortage of !!FUN!! regardless of what you choose. Though depending on the specifics of evolution, your species could be a serious part of that on the fringes of known space.

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 08, 2020, 05:10:10 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (1) MetalSlimeHunt
One (6) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, NirurOn the request of Shadowclaw777, I'm posting here to clarify my vote in case of potential confusion. The only reason I had my vote on "Many" in the first place was in case "Three" didn't work out; thus, I have retracted my vote for Many in favor of Three, on the assumption that's even possible, as that was my original intention. Apologies for any problems caused.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's no problem, write-in options are always acceptable, if not preferable.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 05:24:49 pm

I passed on this earlier because I wasn't sure how much connection to Warhammer 40K there would be. Reading the thread now, I've got to say I'm sorry I missed out.

I have to express my own skepticism that more moons makes the sky bright enough to harm vision. If familiar Luna and Sol are our measuring stick: Sol is more than 150,000 times brighter! (Apparent magnitude -13 vs. apparent magnitude -26.7 works out to a factor of about 2.512^13.) Anything that can process daylight safely isn't likely to be bothered by plausible amounts of moonlight. Maybe very bright moons (more reflective and/or refractive than ours) will not be viewed directly just as the primary star is not, but ambient light levels will not reverse the definitions of "day" and "night".

That said, one strategy to mitigate all that radiation could be to use the planet itself as a shield and become aggressively nocturnal. Our future native species may indeed be light sensitive, but I don't know that any hypothetical visiting humans would be discomfited.

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (6) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

You're the third to mention the light-discrepancy and likely the eighth to notice, I appreciate that you have the patience to take the time to explain why and how the flavour-text and evolutionary impact was off-kilter, with statistics, no less! I'm glad you decided to join-in, your evolutionary journey will begin long before the War in Heaven but the species itself won't achieve sapience for some time. What era of the timeline it emerges into the broader galaxy is up to how quickly you progress technologically and get a cohesive or loosely functional society off-planet.

Becoming nocturnal to avoid the brunt of radiation is possible, but your crust is still bombarded with it, necessitating further adaptions than what we're familiar with, possibly excepting the radiotrophic mushrooms growing in Chernobyl.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 06:19:49 pm

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

On an unrelated note, I'm stunned at how much activity this thread is getting. This is an important vote and it's close, so I'll let it sit for another hour or two before we move onto the last stage of the Home-System and then get into the nitty gritty of what life is on the planet, how it works differently (or similarly) to our own, and what place the distant ancestors of the species have in the ecosystem. That'll be a lot of fun and I'm really looking forward to seeing what course the evolutionary process takes.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Blood_Librarian on June 08, 2020, 06:37:22 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (7) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass, BL
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur[/quote]

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 09:05:30 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (7) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass, BL
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur
A single moon of a mass approaching Terra itself, strong in solitude and stalwart against the encroaching dark orbits the world below. In the eons to come, it will be companion to the thinking creatures capable of perceiving its presence, and if not seen, its gentle influence on the oceanic tide will be felt. Its singular grandeur is likely to influence the lively patterns of what comes into existence below, as all things above do.

The material state of the world has been determined as has its location in the grander scheme, but what of the specifics of the star system surrounding it? Consider carefully, once a tenet of future truth been set in stone, only titanic effort can see it moved.

Advantages: Choose One, each beyond the first requires a Disadvantage.

Isolated Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are fortunate indeed. Nestled in a lifeless expanse extending several hundred light-years in every direction, they are guaranteed to be left to themselves much longer.
Packed Home-System: The system isn't dissimilar to Sol, if only for the fact that its star's orbit is crowded far beyond what most others can claim. A weighty boon, to be sure. (Take 8 Additional Star System Points)
Mineral Abundance: The jagged crust of the home-world lives up to expectations, with a ludicrous mineral bounty any expansionist faction would fight a fierce campaign for. Even alone, this would be enough to bootstrap a higher technological base, to say nothing of supplementing other sources.
Warp Route Nexus: The system will eventually be among the rarest and most sought after commodities, a hub of Immaterial travel sitting in the middle of a stable Warp Zone, this would be a great asset to any spacefaring civilization.
Dense Immaterial Veil: The line between the Materium and Immaterium is thick and not easily broken, it would be trivial for a species to rise from the stone age to civilization without once encountering 'the supernatural.' Perhaps it would be unprepared for the implications of its discovery, but material science has its strengths.
Nearby Nebula: Mere light-years away, a tremendous cloud home to an overabundance of rare and exotic gases sits and beckons, just waiting to be entered and exploited by an intrepid species.
Exotic Resources: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its mineral wealth or lack thereof, but the overwhelming prevalence of valuable ores seldom found in great numbers elsewhere. This could be a great asset to a spacefaring civilization, if it was wary and did not allow it to become a crutch.
Asteroid Belt: The system isn't alone in this but is nonetheless extraordinarily fortunate, for there's a massive, mineral-rich asteroid belt on its outskirts diverting most comets at risk of becoming meteorites, to say nothing of the sheer benefit its raw resources offer to any capable of extracting them.
Thin Atmosphere: Whatever chemical the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has precious little of it, forcing the evolution of efficient respiratory systems capable of filtering and extracting every bit of benefit possible from what little they can inhale. To a species that developed here, denser atmospheres would seem rich, and their endurance unreal.
Oxygenic Atmosphere: The proportion of species in the broader galaxy that prefer to breathe oxygen is truly astounding, and the species here can count themselves a part of that popular clique, fortunate for the time it saves on terraforming and logistics, if nothing else.
Cavern Networks: The home-world's crust is riddled with an intricate system of tunnels and caverns far surpassing those on Terra, effectively adding a second layer to the ecosystem and limited assurance from surface-scouring extinction events.
Geothermal Activity: There are a number of dormant volcanoes easily accessible to the home-world's surface, a potentially abundant and reliable source of energy to a society that has the intellect to discover and make use of it.
Acidic Oceans: The waters of the home-world are, by random chance, of a consistency that would be caustic and corrosive to most organic life of the galaxy, including what grew here until it developed a resistance, not only toward the roiling seas, but a wide range of related compounds found across the galaxy.

Disadvantages: Choose as many as necessary, or more, should hunger outweigh reason.

Crowded Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are unfortunate indeed. Choked by a rare oasis of life in the void, they are guaranteed to encounter at least one other xenos species, possibly as many as a handful in the hundred light-year expanse surrounding the system.
Empty Home-System: This system has an uncommon but sadly not rare predicament, only a singular planet circles its gravity well, a condition not amicable to an early spacefaring civilization. (Disregard the Star System Section)
Mineral Scarcity: The jagged crust of the home-world is a cruel facade, bearing little more than grit and sand, if greater industry has a hope of functioning, it is in omnipresent recycling and tense societal cohesion. Upon leaving orbit, were it alone and adrift in the darkness, that would be a tragic waste of sapience.
Lack of Warp Routes: The system is in an unfortunate position for a spacefaring species, as while Immaterial travel is possible, for a planet in the middle of a now-calm but eventually turbulent spot, it is rarely safe or convenient.
Thin Immaterial Veil: The line between the Materium and Immaterium is thin and permeable, at times closer to a mesh. The existence of the Immaterium is undeniable and any species evolving here would be deeply attuned to its inner mysteries, for good or ill. Not so worrying while the Warp is placid but later, the implications could be cause for concern.
Nearby Profane Shrine: Mere light-years away, on a barren planet circling a sun not dissimilar to the system's own, there lies a grotesquely wonderful place of worship unlike any architecture the species has ever seen, boasting strange idols as worthy of worship as they are wrong, and what's more, carved into its walls are detailed annal of history leading to fervent prayer. Fate dictates this will be discovered and will cause a divide, but what comes after is out of its hand.
Exotic Phenomena: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its Warp Routes or lack thereof, but the presence of faint 'ripples' nearby that seem to ebb and flow with the passage of time, trending ever-so-slightly toward further rapidity each millennia...
Frequent Meteorites: The system is unusual, in that comets are a sight of quite some regularity to the world(s) within, but while they can be considered beautiful to those that have a sense of sight or esoteric means of perception, this is outweighed by the massive risk they pose of impacting the home-world and causing an extinction event.
Ideal Atmosphere: Whatever the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has an overflowing abundance of it, allowing the continuation of primitive, crude respiratory systems long after their expected obsolescence would see them replaced. To a species that evolved here, thinner atmospheres would seem suffocating.
Exotic Atmosphere: The proportion of species that prefer to breathe oxygen in the broader galaxy is truly astounding, and the species here will doubtless find themselves the odd one out, because they happen to prefer methane, or perhaps another chemical, necessitating much more focus on terraforming and logistics than would otherwise be necessary.
Electromagnetic Storms: An unusual combination of unstable magnetic poles and an erratic star, electromagnetic pulses wipe the surface with some regularity, frustrating the development of higher technology without the advent of sufficient precautions and then some.
Unstable Tectonic Plates: The underside of the home-world's crust is in a state of perpetual flux, causing a relatively rapid shift of the continents and constant earthquakes, dramatically heightening the difficulty of erecting permanent settlements.
Sporadic Orbit: Although the home-world's orbit is somewhat predictable, it is best described as loose and exponentially likelier to shift in closeness too or from the sun at some point in the next few million years, and more than likely back again.

Home-System Satellites: Twelve Points may be spent in this section, at one's discretion

Barren Planet: A sandy and desolate clump, its unsightly bulk collects some meteorites and could perhaps be strip-mined for a pittance, but isn't worth much else. (1 Point)
Rocky Planet A modest and battered chunk, it's in the same gravity well as the home-world and while not rich, boasts an amount of mineral wealth worth the effort to get. (3 Points)
Mineral Planet An immense and bountiful rock, it is replete with a trove of mineral treasure almost visible from space, and sitting in unclaimed abundance. (5 Points)
Water Planet: A swirling mass of bizarre countenance and questionable worth, its entire surface is covered in water and while there could be life there, is it really worth the look? (6 Points)
Liveable Planet: Oh miracle of miracles, this is unthinkable yet here, writ in material, a world of a physical and chemical composition almost matching the home-world's own, the sole distinction is that life has never developed on its surface. (10 Points)
Gas Giant A titanic, non-solid sphere hurtling through the outskirts of the system, full of gasses surrounding a tremendous mineral core just waiting to be tapped. (5 Points)
Ringed Gas Giant As before, but with a ring of mineral richness rivaling, if not surpassing the providence of smaller planets. (8 Points)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
The Traits of the Home-System: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 09:29:25 pm

Hmn...

Mineral Abundance
Frequent Meteorites + Thin Atmosphere
Unstable Tectonic Plates + Geothermal Activity
Lack of Warp Routes + Isolated Star Region
Empty Home System + Asteroid Belt

Good resources plus various flaws that both fit the planet and hypothetically make some of these resources even more common, the thin atmosphere makes us more likely to be able to deal with a wide variety of atmospheres and even be better at dealing with a lack of one, and the combination of our isolation both in space and via the difficulty of getting to us means we’ll have plenty of time to develop on our own, and may even develop safer - albeit slower - means of FTL travel akin to the Tau, or perhaps manage to do something even better that I cannot predict. We’ll also still have a motivation to develop space travel in the first place due to the meteors, despite not having nearby planets, and this may in fact increase the speed at which we develop the means to travel to other systems in search of more.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 08, 2020, 09:32:50 pm

This being pre-War in Heaven, I think it'd be a good idea to try to avoid meddling with the Warp, so I propose the following plan for the home system:

Code: (Proposal: One-system challenge) [Select]

Advantages:
 + Dense Immaterial Veil
 + Packed Home-System
 + Isolated Star Region
Disadvantages:
 - Lack of Warp Routes
 - Mineral Scarcity

System (20 points):
 o Habitable planet (10)
 o Mineral planet (5)
 O Gas Giant (5)

The idea behind the Isolated Star Region+Mineral Scarcity is to push the species into space as soon as possible to exploit the other planets.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 08, 2020, 09:36:46 pm

My proposal. Much as I don't want to corrupt us early, all must learn to steel themselves against corruption in time. A fortified home system with no alien intervention would be as ideal as could be hoped for...unless of course it is those who control that place who fall to corruption? But there is no safe way forward.

Quote

Advantages: Choose One, each beyond the first requires a Disadvantage.

Isolated Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are fortunate indeed. Nestled in a lifeless expanse extending several hundred light-years in every direction, they are guaranteed to be left to themselves much longer.
Mineral Abundance: The jagged crust of the home-world lives up to expectations, with a ludicrous mineral bounty any expansionist faction would fight a fierce campaign for. Even alone, this would be enough to bootstrap a higher technological base, to say nothing of supplementing other sources.
Exotic Resources: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its mineral wealth or lack thereof, but the overwhelming prevalence of valuable ores seldom found in great numbers elsewhere. This could be a great asset to a spacefaring civilization, if it was wary and did not allow it to become a crutch.
Thin Atmosphere: Whatever chemical the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has precious little of it, forcing the evolution of efficient respiratory systems capable of filtering and extracting every bit of benefit possible from what little they can inhale. To a species that developed here, denser atmospheres would seem rich, and their endurance unreal.
Cavern Networks: The home-world's crust is riddled with an intricate system of tunnels and caverns far surpassing those on Terra, effectively adding a second layer to the ecosystem and limited assurance from surface-scouring extinction events.

Disadvantages: Choose as many as necessary, or more, should hunger outweigh reason.

Nearby Profane Shrine: Mere light-years away, on a barren planet circling a sun not dissimilar to the system's own, there lies a grotesquely wonderful place of worship unlike any architecture the species has ever seen, boasting strange idols as worthy of worship as they are wrong, and what's more, carved into its walls are detailed annal of history leading to fervent prayer. Fate dictates this will be discovered and will cause a divide, but what comes after is out of its hand.
Exotic Phenomena: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its Warp Routes or lack thereof, but the presence of faint 'ripples' nearby that seem to ebb and flow with the passage of time, trending ever-so-slightly toward further rapidity each millennia...
Frequent Meteorites: The system is unusual, in that comets are a sight of quite some regularity to the world(s) within, but while they can be considered beautiful to those that have a sense of sight or esoteric means of perception, this is outweighed by the massive risk they pose of impacting the home-world and causing an extinction event.
Electromagnetic Storms: An unusual combination of unstable magnetic poles and an erratic star, electromagnetic pulses wipe the surface with some regularity, frustrating the development of higher technology without the advent of sufficient precautions and then some.

Home-System Satellites: Twelve Points may be spent in this section, at one's discretion

Barren Planet: A sandy and desolate clump, its unsightly bulk collects some meteorites and could perhaps be strip-mined for a pittance, but isn't worth much else. (1 Point)
Mineral Planet An immense and bountiful rock, it is replete with a trove of mineral treasure almost visible from space, and sitting in unclaimed abundance. (5 Points)
Water Planet: A swirling mass of bizarre countenance and questionable worth, its entire surface is covered in water and while there could be life there, is it really worth the look? (6 Points)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 08, 2020, 09:50:23 pm

Here's my plan, with lots of resources and thin atmosphere.

Caves will hopefully stave off extinctions from meteorites, and might be worth it for more pop cap. It also makes our home-world even harder to invade.
A crowded region will be more fun to play in, and give opportunities just as it gives dangers.
I don't know what exotic phenomena are, but let's take them. They're a problem for far in the future.

Code: [Select]

Mineral Abundance
Cavern Networks + Frequent Meteorites
Exotic Resources + Exotic Phenomena
Thin Atmosphere +  Crowded Star Region

System:
Livable Planet (Slightly further from the star)
2x Barren Planets (In the hot zone of the star, they're a pair much like Pluto-Charon)


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 10:15:43 pm

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 08, 2020, 09:50:23 pm

Here's my plan, with lots of resources and thin atmosphere.

Caves will hopefully stave off extinctions from meteorites, and might be worth it for more pop cap. It also makes our home-world even harder to invade.
A crowded region will be more fun to play in, and give opportunities just as it gives dangers.
I don't know what exotic phenomena are, but let's take them. They're a problem for far in the future.

Code: [Select]

Mineral Abundance
Cavern Networks + Frequent Meteorites
Exotic Resources + Exotic Phenomena
Thin Atmosphere +  Crowded Star Region

System:
Livable Planet (Slightly further from the star)
2x Barren Planets (In the hot zone of the star, they're a pair much like Pluto-Charon)


Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

These are all completely valid and I'm excited to see what the thread decides on but the end of this post reminds me of something I forgot to include in the update. It's fairly minor but bares mentioning, you can freely choose the location of other satellites relative to the sun's orbit, and I encourage you to do so.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 10:22:05 pm

Advantages

Isolated Star Region
Mineral Abundance
Exotic Resources
Thin Atmosphere
Cavern Networks
Geothermal Activity
Acidic Oceans

Disadvantages

Thin Immaterial Veil
Nearby Profane Shrine
Exotic Phenomena
Frequent Meteorites
Exotic Atmosphere
Unstable Tectonic Plates

Home-System Satellites: Twelve Points may be spent in this section, at one's discretion

2 Rocky Planets (6 Points)
Water Planet (6 Points)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:25:07 pm

May I make a vote against the Thin Veil and Profane Shrine disadvantages? I find it quite probable that it would be bad for us to have a close connection to the Warp. We might not even make it to the 41st millennium.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 10:32:06 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:25:07 pm

May I make a vote against the Thin Veil and Profane Shrine disadvantages? I find it quite probable that it would be bad for us to have a close connection to the Warp. We might not even make it to the 41st millennium.

ok, which 2 advantages will be taken out with those?
Edit: I’ve never played Warhammer, why is connecting with the immaterium bad?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:34:43 pm

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 10:32:06 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:25:07 pm

May I make a vote against the Thin Veil and Profane Shrine disadvantages? I find it quite probable that it would be bad for us to have a close connection to the Warp. We might not even make it to the 41st millennium.

ok, which 2 advantages will be taken out with those?
Edit: I’ve never played Warhammer, why is connecting with the immaterium bad?

I'd replace them with a lack of warp routes and an empty home system. In general, following more of what my proposal did.
And the answer is "that's where the demons, warp, and chaos gods are, and they're Bad Shit^TM through and through".

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 11:14:09 pm

Hrm… I wonder what happens choosing neither oxygen nor exotic to breathe. Looks like none of the plans involve lungs.

Quote

Asteroid Belt
Crowded Star Region + Packed Home-System
Sporadic Orbit + Geothermal Activity
Thin Immaterial Veil + Nearby Nebula

Home System 12+8 = 20 points: 3x Gas Giants, 1 Mineral Planet

Gas Giant A (between Mercury and Venus)(the smallest giant, able to migrate inward without knocking absolutely everything else out of the way)
Us (~ 0.9 - 1.3 AU, depending)
Asteroid Belt (round about where Mars would be)
Mineral Planet (~2.5 to 2.9 AU)(another Large planet, with similar gravity and complicated orbit)
Gas Giant B (~ 6 AU, a bit farther than Jupiter)(sized like a fat Saturn)(sadly, missed the sale at the ring boutique)
Gas Giant C (~8 AU, closer than Saturn)(also Saturn sized)

An abundance of space resources in both the system and near-interstellar distances, encouraging life outward should technology rise to the occasion. Tidal forces from the interplay of three gas giants, particularly A, keep the core and mantle simmering (hopefully without boiling over) although they do occasionally reconfigure our orbit. The multitude of objects extends beyond this one location, however, and the history of the future will not be written by this world alone.

I wanted one of Thin Atmosphere or Acidic Oceans to toughen us up a bit more, but I couldn't decide on another drawback.

Pre-post edits:
Nirur Torir might be on to something regarding Exotic Phenomena drawback: can we gear things toward space travel and just not stick around for the big bang?

Glass, I hear ya, but after the GM prompted me to include system geography I've been working on this more than long enough already and I just want to get it posted.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 11:25:47 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:25:07 pm

May I make a vote against the Thin Veil and Profane Shrine disadvantages? I find it quite probable that it would be bad for us to have a close connection to the Warp. We might not even make it to the 41st millennium.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

You may not levy an anti-vote against a specific choice because it makes vote-tallying more complicated, lowers the need for discussion, and if we came to an impasse would make it exponentially more difficult to progress. You can however convince others to recast their votes, change your vote to another option, or if an ill-advised choice goes ahead, vote to mitigate the risks of the previous decision later on. The Immaterium is undeniably an extreme risk but there are a handful of examples of species that have interacted with it in an extremely limited or hyperspecific capacity on a large scale without significant detriment to themselves or those around them, such as the Nicassar (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nicassar) and the Antedil (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Antedil), though there are many, many more of dabbling with the Warp leading to ruinous consequences. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide if that's worth the risk.

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 08, 2020, 10:32:06 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 08, 2020, 10:25:07 pm

May I make a vote against the Thin Veil and Profane Shrine disadvantages? I find it quite probable that it would be bad for us to have a close connection to the Warp. We might not even make it to the 41st millennium.

ok, which 2 advantages will be taken out with those?
Edit: I’ve never played Warhammer, why is connecting with the immaterium bad?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

It's somewhat convoluted and the Lexicanum explains it better than I can (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp) but I'll try to summarize the basics. Reality in 40k is divided between two 'dimensions,' the Materium, which is the 'realm' subordinate to the laws of physics where almost every species lives, and the Immaterium, which is a 'realm' comprised largely of emotions that are generated in the Materium and feed back into the Immaterium. The Immaterium has no laws of physics and its logic or lack thereof is subordinate to the will of those that inhabit the Immaterium, or those that are able to 'tap into' the Immaterium, 'psykers', to blur the lines between the Materium and Immaterium, to use the latter to manifest psychic phenomena that are impossible under the laws of physics. The problem is that 40k is, much later on, a horrible place to be where there is Only War™ etc., so the emotions of Materium going back into the Immaterium are negatively influenced, which means that over time, the Immaterium underwent degradation from its naturally calm, placid state to a hellish nightmare.

Entities made of emotion native, sometimes referred to as morally spirits when ambiguous, but most commonly as daemons, with an extremely negative connotation, were similarly negatively influenced and, as entities made of emotion, instinctively do all they can to further spread and cultivate their source emotion, whatever it may be. These daemons are prone to corrupting the minds of the weak-willed and/or mentally ill who succumb too strongly to a certain emotion, as in, axe-murdering frothing-at-the-mouth levels of anger as opposed to mild frustration or annoyance, and psykers who aren't capable of resisting their influence when they 'open' their soul to the Immaterium/Warp. This almost always leads to significant damage to the psychic individual and most often those around them, so despite the numerous benefits of psychic power, such as causing flesh to regrow and heal wounds, or generating lightning to kill an opponent there is a significant, likely permanent risk to the well-being and sanctity of the immaterial consciousness clinging to the physical body or 'soul' of those who partake in it.

At the moment, the Warp/Immaterium isn't currently a hellish nightmare, only another dimension, but Glass was concerned with the risk of coming to depend on psychic power and not having the resistance to avoid negative consequences when the timeline goes down the drain and the Warp/Immaterium follows along with it in a self-perpetuating cycle of negative emotion and conflict to stave off the worst of the consequences, which again, feeds back into the negative emotion, requiring conflict, which again... and so on, and so on, in an endless downward spiral. It's a very reasonable thing to be concerned about, but an argument could be made in either direction.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 11:14:09 pm

Hrm… I wonder what happens choosing neither oxygen nor exotic to breathe. Looks like none of the plans involve lungs.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The species defaults to carbon dioxide, which is almost as commonly used as oxygen for breathing, due to plants, and usually present in decent amounts even on oxygen-heavy planets, but rarely at an ideal, not too light, not too dense, ratio for a species that breathes carbon dioxide.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 11:14:09 pm

Pre-post edits:
Nirur Torir might be on to something regarding Exotic Phenomena drawback: can we gear things toward space travel and just not stick around for the big bang?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

You absolutely can, but you can't metagame through the tech-tree from the standpoint of the species. You can set things up perfectly and then follow them, but you can't jump from smelting bronze to advanced rocketry in two or three turns unless you rolled extremely well and were intelligent to begin with.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 08, 2020, 11:14:09 pm

Glass, I hear ya, but after the GM prompted me to include system geography I've been working on this more than long enough already and I just want to get it posted.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I appreciate that, and your schematic is very nifty. The inclusion of AU measurements was a very nice touch.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 11:41:36 pm

I think I like Nirur's proposal most of all. I'd like to maximize tech, preferably (and intentionally) at the expense of Warp shenanigans. I'd not object to nearby hostiles whom we could use our materials advantages to overtake and conquer.

Basically I want science and space conquering because otherwise we're going to be extremely at-risk of the warp wrecking our stuff or somebody else wrecking our stuff, but if we're reasonably powerful we can at least be too much of a bother to kill.


Just in case you haven't realized, Ardent, I am a gigantic nerd, and so I feel obliged to point out that the reason we breathe oxygen is that it's great at reacting with things. Carbon dioxide is one of the most common results of using oxygen *to* react with something and is therefore of no aid to a creature as it would take energy to break up the CO2 instead of yielding any energy; though it may be expelled as waste gas after various typical life processes (like we humans do).

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 08, 2020, 11:52:48 pm

Will post my idea tomorrow.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 09, 2020, 12:05:44 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 11:41:36 pm

I think I like Nirur's proposal most of all. I'd like to maximize tech, preferably (and intentionally) at the expense of Warp shenanigans. I'd not object to nearby hostiles whom we could use our materials advantages to overtake and conquer.

Basically I want science and space conquering because otherwise we're going to be extremely at-risk of the warp wrecking our stuff or somebody else wrecking our stuff, but if we're reasonably powerful we can at least be too much of a bother to kill.


Just in case you haven't realized, Ardent, I am a gigantic nerd, and so I feel obliged to point out that the reason we breathe oxygen is that it's great at reacting with things. Carbon dioxide is one of the most common results of using oxygen *to* react with something and is therefore of no aid to a creature as it would take energy to break up the CO2 instead of yielding any energy; though it may be expelled as waste gas after various typical life processes (like we humans do).

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm aware Oxygen is extremely reactive and that's why we use it, but I hadn't realized that CO2 wasn't a viable alternative, given I was told plants 'breathe' it in some capacity since I was an infant, though apparently they don't breathe at all, just respirate. I appreciate you pointing out the holes in my logic and again, apologize; next time I'll research before posting instead of falling back on the bastardization of my gut feeling and half-remembered articles/documentaries/think pieces from years ago. I know this is 40k and some suspension of disbelief from all parties involved is a given, but that's no excuse for basic logic gaps. Please do point out anything else you see on my end, I'm very thankful for your input. Concerning mightymushroom's question of what the species will breathe if neither atmosphere option is selected, I'll default to saying it'll emerge as fitting for the evolutionary course, whatever that may be, as vague an answer as that is. On an unrelated note, I find there's often too little or no emphasis on the auspex in ship-to-ship combat, which is completely understandable but still bothers me slightly. Sensors are a huge part of combat at sufficient distances, far-future nigh-indestructible armor and apocalyptic munitions notwithstanding.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 08, 2020, 11:41:36 pm

Just in case you haven't realized, Ardent, I am a gigantic nerd

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

It could be argued that's a prerequisite for finding this place, 

Quote from: Tyrant Leviathan on June 08, 2020, 11:52:48 pm

Will post my idea tomorrow.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm looking forward to seeing it, and hope you've all enjoyed the preliminary so far.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 01:45:07 am

Well, this is rather more next-level than I expected from the thread title — looks very very cool.

I’ll probably end up throwing in for someone else’s plan, since I find it a little unlikely I’ll gain too much traction, but I find the concept of a people huddled from cavern network to cavern network, isolated away from each other by radiation slamming down through a shallow sea, wondering what exists outside of their little points of life, unaware of just how many things truly do... well, I find it quite poetic indeed. (Also, this works quite well for an empire that focuses quite hard on building up technology, which I try to encourage along with really building up and relying on the cavern networks.. Hell... maybe we come up with a method of FTL that doesn’t rely on the Warp quite like Terran ships do.)

Quote

Advantages:

Isolated Star System
Thick Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks
Mineral Abundance

Disadvantages:

Frequent Meteorites
Ideal Atmosphere
Lack of Warp Routes

Star System:
Barren Planet (close to sun)
2 Rocky Planets (neighbor planets to ours, in terms of orbital distance)
Gas Giant (a gargantuan body, far away, looming)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 09, 2020, 04:36:12 am

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 08, 2020, 09:50:23 pm

Code: [Select]

Mineral Abundance
Cavern Networks + Frequent Meteorites
Exotic Resources + Exotic Phenomena
Thin Atmosphere +  Crowded Star Region

System:
Livable Planet (Slightly further from the star)
2x Barren Planets (In the hot zone of the star, they're a pair much like Pluto-Charon)


+1

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: andrea on June 09, 2020, 05:27:48 am

I tried making a votebox, with links to the proposals due to their complexity.
Of all the proposal, I like powder miner's most. Shields us from warp, provides mineral, safety from other species before we are ready to venture outside and forces us into warp independent technology.

Nirur's plan is maybe my next favourite, but I am wary of exotic resources + crowded local system. if someone else gets space faring before us, we may find ourselves a slave caste in exotic mines.

One thing about powder's plan I would change: Swap ideal atmosphere for electromagnetic storms: it follows the concepts of people living in cave networks, with a very hostile surface. Our civilization would be shielded from those events by the caves, but only hardened or non-electrical machinery can travel the surface safely. Regardless of whether this change proposal is accepted, my vote stands.

Quote from:  votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (2): Powder miner, Andrea
Nirur Torir plan  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(2): Nirur Torir, King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1): KJ proton
MetalSLimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 09, 2020, 05:51:49 am

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 08, 2020, 09:05:30 pm

Code: (Moon(s) vote) [Select]

None (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
One (7) KJP, Lidku, TL, SC777, Chaoskl21, Glass, BL
Two (0)
[Three] (1) IFM
Many (4) Rockeater, NG, Madman, Nirur
A single moon of a mass approaching Terra itself, strong in solitude and stalwart against the encroaching dark orbits the world below. In the eons to come, it will be companion to the thinking creatures capable of perceiving its presence, and if not seen, its gentle influence on the oceanic tide will be felt. Its singular grandeur is likely to influence the lively patterns of what comes into existence below, as all things above do.

The material state of the world has been determined as has its location in the grander scheme, but what of the specifics of the star system surrounding it? Consider carefully, once a tenet of future truth been set in stone, only titanic effort can see it moved.

Advantages: Choose One, each beyond the first requires a Disadvantage.

Isolated Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are fortunate indeed. Nestled in a lifeless expanse extending several hundred light-years in every direction, they are guaranteed to be left to themselves much longer.

Mineral Abundance: The jagged crust of the home-world lives up to expectations, with a ludicrous mineral bounty any expansionist faction would fight a fierce campaign for. Even alone, this would be enough to bootstrap a higher technological base, to say nothing of supplementing other sources.


Exotic Resources: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its mineral wealth or lack thereof, but the overwhelming prevalence of valuable ores seldom found in great numbers elsewhere. This could be a great asset to a spacefaring civilization, if it was wary and did not allow it to become a crutch.

Thin Atmosphere: Whatever chemical the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has precious little of it, forcing the evolution of efficient respiratory systems capable of filtering and extracting every bit of benefit possible from what little they can inhale. To a species that developed here, denser atmospheres would seem rich, and their endurance unreal.

Cavern Networks: The home-world's crust is riddled with an intricate system of tunnels and caverns far surpassing those on Terra, effectively adding a second layer to the ecosystem and limited assurance from surface-scouring extinction events.

Geothermal Activity: There are a number of dormant volcanoes easily accessible to the home-world's surface, a potentially abundant and reliable source of energy to a society that has the intellect to discover and make use of it.

Acidic Oceans: The waters of the home-world are, by random chance, of a consistency that would be caustic and corrosive to most organic life of the galaxy, including what grew here until it developed a resistance, not only toward the roiling seas, but a wide range of related compounds found across the galaxy.

Disadvantages: Choose as many as necessary, or more, should hunger outweigh reason.

Crowded Star Region: The system's future life-forms may not know it, but they are unfortunate indeed. Choked by a rare oasis of life in the void, they are guaranteed to encounter at least one other xenos species, possibly as many as a handful in the hundred light-year expanse surrounding the system.


Lack of Warp Routes: The system is in an unfortunate position for a spacefaring species, as while Immaterial travel is possible, for a planet in the middle of a now-calm but eventually turbulent spot, it is rarely safe or convenient.


Exotic Phenomena: The system is noteworthy, not necessarily for its Warp Routes or lack thereof, but the presence of faint 'ripples' nearby that seem to ebb and flow with the passage of time, trending ever-so-slightly toward further rapidity each millennia...

Frequent Meteorites: The system is unusual, in that comets are a sight of quite some regularity to the world(s) within, but while they can be considered beautiful to those that have a sense of sight or esoteric means of perception, this is outweighed by the massive risk they pose of impacting the home-world and causing an extinction event.

Ideal Atmosphere: Whatever the species evolving here require to breathe, the home-world has an overflowing abundance of it, allowing the continuation of primitive, crude respiratory systems long after their expected obsolescence would see them replaced. To a species that evolved here, thinner atmospheres would seem suffocating.



Electromagnetic Storms: An unusual combination of unstable magnetic poles and an erratic star, electromagnetic pulses wipe the surface with some regularity, frustrating the development of higher technology without the advent of sufficient precautions and then some.




Home-System Satellites: Twelve Points may be spent in this section, at one's discretion

Barren Planet: A sandy and desolate clump, its unsightly bulk collects some meteorites and could perhaps be strip-mined for a pittance, but isn't worth much else. (1 Point)
Rocky Planet A modest and battered chunk, it's in the same gravity well as the home-world and while not rich, boasts an amount of mineral wealth worth the effort to get. (3 Points)
Ringed Gas Giant As before, but with a ring of mineral richness rivaling, if not surpassing the providence of smaller planets. (8 Points)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
The Traits of the Home-System: To be determined

Went for something different with the other bodies, my trolling is having neighbors in a gas giant situation we could manifest destiny on.

As for home world my goal was super amphibians hence we survive super acid ( and meteors due to ringed gas giant.)

My second ideal was 1 barren, 1 mineral, one water.

Third was one habitable and 2 barren. Really cannot make up my mind so tried to be different.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 07:06:37 am

I considered electromagnetic storms, but it would make going high-tech fairly difficult, which... well, that would be quite a severe problem for a civilization in an ultra-harsh environment with nearly no Warp access, lmao. Plus I did want to pander to Madman a little with a good base for going high-tech, hehehe

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: andrea on June 09, 2020, 08:21:18 am

Yes, but the storms are only a problem on the surface. Underground, we can develop technology until ready to venture out.

Might be a problem for satellites and stuff however

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kashyyk on June 09, 2020, 09:14:18 am

Quote from: Votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan  (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(2): Nirur Torir, King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1): KJ proton
MetalSlimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 09:32:42 am

My plan analyses. We have 0 plans that breath oxygen, so I'll made one. Our soldiers will be even better.

Lonely plans:

Glass's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, giving us plenty of time to build up with abundant minerals and tech. 0 post-space disasters.
It's a safe plan if we get into space, leaving us to only worry about eventual bigger picture threats.

Kilojoule's plan gets us 0 disasters and 0 boosts to civ stage, with poor minerals and warp protection. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, but have a good home system. 0 post-space disasters.
It's a safe plan, but I'm wary of both mineral poor with our high gravity, and isolated + warp penalty + dense immaterium veil leaves us trying to figure that out for ourselves in isolated colonies, even if we're well protected against Chaos cultists in our rich home system. Dense immaterium leaves us unlikely to have psykers of our own, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does leave us with fewer options.

MSH's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 1 boost to evolution. We're then isolated for space, and rich in both common and exotic minerals. We'll have 2 post-space disasters, in the form of profane shrine and exotic phenomena.
The idea seems similar to mine, but with more picks and being isolated instead of crowded.

Naturegirl's plan gets us 2 disasters and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 2 boosts to evolution. We're then isolated for space, and rich in both common and exotic minerals. We have 2 post-space disasters.
Exotic atmosphere likely makes our soldiers less effective offensively, but nobody will want to try to fight a land war on our planets. I think thin immaterial veil gives us stronger psykers, so if we can deal with the risks, we get even stronger armies.
Thin immaterial veil + profane shrine is a Chaos threat disynergy.
I'd like to make special note that cavern network + unstable tectonics + meteorites has a disynergy, as we can't effectively bury critical infrastructure to protect against extinction events.
If we can survive everything, we have the potential to come out with intensely strong soldiers, especially defensively.

Miner's plan gets us 1 disaster and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 0 boosts to evolution. We're then isolated and cut off from warp travel, giving us plenty of time to build up with abundant minerals. 0 post-space disasters.
Ideal atmosphere, thick immaterial veil, and no evolution boosts will limit soldier effectiveness.
Another safe plan, with the single disaster being limited by caves. We're then alone with an average system and will have a difficult time with FTL.


Tyrant's plan gets us 2 disasters and 3 boosts to civ stage, with 2 boosts to evolution. We're then cut off from warp travel, and have Schrodinger's neighbors, who might or might not exist. We have rich common and exotic minerals. We have 1 post-space disaster.
We have defensively very strong soldiers, and lots of minerals to build up with before we figure out how to get out of the system.

Plans with friends we can fight:

My plan gets us 1 disaster and 2 boosts to civ stage, with 1 boost to evolution. We have to deal with other races in space, one of whom will probably have a presence mining our exotic resources by the time we get to space, possibly with a colony on our other planet. We have mysterious 1 post-space disaster to worry about.
I want to have to deal with other minor civilizations. It's fun, and lets us play soldier with our hopefully very strong people.
The threat of having to clear out our home system somehow is potentially as difficult as overcoming any other disaster, but we might make some foreign friends out of it. And it should be fun.

Mightmushroom's plan gets us 1 disaster and 1 boost to civ stage, with 1 potential boost to evolution in the form of sporadic orbit. We have a rich home system, once we reach space, with a nebula nearby instead of exotics. 0 post-space disasters.
The thin immaterial veil and lack of colony worlds means we're more likely to reach space before anyone else has a significant mining presence.
The plan is safer than mine, but more focused on exotic gasses than minerals. I don't think sporadic orbit is an extinction level event, especially with abundant geothermal power, but it will probably take longer to reach space, giving our neighbors more time to develop. We should have a relatively easy time claiming and defending our home system, and we should end up with better psykers.
Unlike mine, our home system can be trusted not to self-destruct.

---

Plan Soldiers

Quote from:  Plan Soldiers

Thin Atmosphere
Oxygenic Atmosphere + Empty Home-System
Warp Route Nexus + Thin Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks + Sporadic Orbit
Rich Moon + Superpredators (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151840#msg8151840)

I've crammed every most evolution boosts in, including the dangers of more psykers, and the only natural (or warp) disaster is sporadic orbit. Which might make us stronger.
We have a warp nexus to get to our neighbors and look for richer systems, and only sporadic orbit slowing our growth. The empty home system means that nobody other than us can hold our system for long without allying us, once we develop surface-to-orbit weapons.

Quote from: Votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1): KJ proton
MetalSlimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (1): Nirur

I don't like Powder Miner's plan. It's safe, but might get a little boring later on.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 10:36:10 am

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 07:06:37 am

Plus I did want to pander to Madman a little with a good base for going high-tech, hehehe

Now, see, if everybody just did what I wanted to do and left none of the work of doing it to me the world would be a great place :P


And, Ardent, don't worry so much about the breathing "problem" or the amount of detail going into it. Most people don't care and it doesn't disrupt their suspension-of-disbelief (and it doesn't really harm mine, either [we're already in 40k so disbelief has run away screaming some time ago]). I just happen to enjoy telling people interesting science-y things that I know.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: andrea on June 09, 2020, 10:38:27 am

Hm. boring later on is a fair point, maybe we don't need to be fully isolated. I would still rather not be crowded however.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 09, 2020, 10:56:24 am

Well, here goes! Don't be surprised if I screw absolutely everything over with this plan. I have played literally zero games of any sort wherein you develop a civilization and then have it go out into the unknown regions of the cosmos.

Advantages:
Isolated Star Region
Packed Home-System
Geothermal Activity
Mineral Abundance

Disadvantages:
Exotic Phenomena (I don't even know what this is, really, or what it will do...)
Lack of Warp Routes
Sporadic Orbit

Other Home-System Planets (20 points to spend thanks to Packed Home-System):
Liveable Planet + Rocky Planet + Barren Planet + Barren Planet + Gas Giant
Orbit distances: Liveable Planet maybe 20% farther out than home planet (but still close enough to the home star to count as livable), Rocky Planet somewhat close to home star, 1st Barren Planet extremely close to home star (similarly to Mercury in the Sol system), 2nd Barren Planet far enough out to be an ice world, gas giant far enough out to be an ice giant (similarly to Neptune in the Sol system).

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 11:34:27 am

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 09:32:42 am

Mightmushroom's plan [. . .] The plan is safer than mine, but more focused on exotic gasses than minerals.

Less by intention as by wanting to make an interesting system that semi-justifies sporadic orbit. Minerals are good.

Meta: insofar as the oxygen vs. exotic choices appear to relate to mechanics of terraforming/expansion costs, then not choosing a position means something in the middle. Maybe our life relies on some (undefined?) rare compound alongside oxygen such that we can make things work by adding one ingredient instead of replacing the foundations of an alien biome.

There seems to be a strong faction against meddling with the Warp. If I'm projecting the intent correctly we'll have to deal with it sometime regardless; when we reach interstellar contact if not sooner. I'm not averse to getting in some early practice.

I'd also prefer a more interesting home system as an impetus for exploration and expansion, otherwise Nirur II: the Evolutioning looks fine to me. So I'd probably be swapping out Empty Home System for Frequent Meteorites (trusting in the caverns to reduce a portion of that danger).

I'm curious what people would think of having a Water World, it obviously was passed over in the first round of suggestions but the cost suggests it's a better resource than a straight-up mineral planet. 12 points = Water + Rocky + Rocky for instance.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 09, 2020, 11:45:55 am

Remember: Humanity grew up in an era of warp-calmness as well, even in spite of having some sensitivity. The outcome was Old Night.

There may be some benefit to non-oxygen or exotic atmosphere existence - we wouldn't be directly competing with oxygen-breathers for planets and certain groups of oxygenated genocidal xenophobes would find invading our worlds difficult, as well as making extended occupation nearly impossible. Granted, most such people would just bomb the world from orbit until nothing remains, but it's an edge.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 09, 2020, 11:56:09 am

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This is an extremely important and seems to be a point of some contention, so I'll wait until tomorrow before we go ahead with the majority's choice. If 80% of the thread suddenly pivots in support of a single suggestion, we'll of course go ahead, but don't feel the need to rush. What you decide on here will have long-lasting and wide-reaching implications.

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 01:45:07 am

Well, this is rather more next-level than I expected from the thread title — looks very very cool.

I’ll probably end up throwing in for someone else’s plan, since I find it a little unlikely I’ll gain too much traction, but I find the concept of a people huddled from cavern network to cavern network, isolated away from each other by radiation slamming down through a shallow sea, wondering what exists outside of their little points of life, unaware of just how many things truly do... well, I find it quite poetic indeed. (Also, this works quite well for an empire that focuses quite hard on building up technology, which I try to encourage along with really building up and relying on the cavern networks.. Hell... maybe we come up with a method of FTL that doesn’t rely on the Warp quite like Terran ships do.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm happy to hear that you were pleasantly surprised by the thread, and watching the long-term logic and different priorities that's going into you all coming to your own decisions and the discussion that's going on about it is interesting. I'm eager to see what it is everyone eventually settles on, there's a massive amount of potential with each build that's been posted so far. That's a striking mental image too, rife with symbolism, not to mention that the underdog aspect inherent to not being human in the same galaxy that the Imperium of Man will eventually dominate or might not, depending on how rapid and extreme your expansion and technological advance is. Seeing what philosophy emerges from the species' evolution and its environment, and how it's changed or strengthened by the adversity they might come against is going to be extremely interesting too.

Quote from: Tyrant Leviathan on June 09, 2020, 05:51:49 am

As for home world my goal was super amphibians hence we survive super acid ( and meteors due to ringed gas giant.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

A valid evolutionary course, I'm eager to see whether you all fall back on Terran examples of species overcoming similar difficulties during the evolutionary stage or diverge into something stranger that we don't have an example for.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 09:32:42 am

I've crammed every evolution boost in, including the dangers of more psykers, and the only natural (or warp) disaster is sporadic orbit. Which might make us stronger.
We have a warp nexus to get to our neighbors and look for richer systems, and only sporadic orbit slowing our growth. The empty home system means that nobody other than us can hold our system for long without allying us, once we develop surface-to-orbit weapons.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's an extremely solid appraisal of everyone's plans, and as for the evolutionary boosts, while the species would suffer horribly for it they'd be stronger in the long run. Having other species could be beneficial or detrimental, depending, they'd crawl into sapience around the same time as you do, but there's no guarantee they'll follow the same path on the tech-tree. I plan on randomly generating other minor xenos, to an extent, I already have a few crude tables to roll on to determine the broad specifics of a given species. You can and will eventually run into canonical species if you start expanding into the broader galaxy, and most of them aren't amicable. Then again, maybe you won't be either. All the same, there's nothing preventing you from developing a nonviolent ethos, ambulating softly, and carrying a big stick. It all depends.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 10:36:10 am

And, Ardent, don't worry so much about the breathing "problem" or the amount of detail going into it. Most people don't care and it doesn't disrupt their suspension-of-disbelief (and it doesn't really harm mine, either [we're already in 40k so disbelief has run away screaming some time ago]). I just happen to enjoy telling people interesting science-y things that I know.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

No worries here and I don't intend to start, I just want the pseudo-science here I'm spewing to be on-point. I hope you continue during the evolutionary phase, much of that I'm already familiar with, but I'm deeply interested in seeing the disparate perspectives everyone is bringing into the thread.

Quote from: andrea on June 09, 2020, 10:38:27 am

Hm. boring later on is a fair point, maybe we don't need to be fully isolated. I would still rather not be crowded however.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Keep in mind, the less external pressure there is, the more space there is for internal schisms or even conflict. Of course, that's assuming that the species has a concept of aggression or disagreement toward themselves, there are countless feasible evolutionary paths that could result in that kind of societal cohesion, and it'd be fascinating to see how that reacts to the intense xenophobia that's almost, if not already the assumed default in the broader galaxy. If you don't choose Isolated Star Region, you can rest assured that none of the immediate neighboring systems have other sapients, but running into an intelligent species at some point is inevitable, and more likely to be too close for comfort than not, though as always, there's an element of chance and you could get lucky.

Quote from: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 09, 2020, 10:56:24 am

Well, here goes! Don't be surprised if I screw absolutely everything over with this plan. I have played literally zero games of any sort wherein you develop a civilization and then have it go out into the unknown regions of the cosmos.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Again, not any kind of requirement, and while it can be avoided with sufficient forethought, having everything go wrong in the worst way possible is par for the course for Warhammer 40k.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 11:34:27 am

There seems to be a strong faction against meddling with the Warp. If I'm projecting the intent correctly we'll have to deal with it sometime regardless; when we reach interstellar contact if not sooner. I'm not averse to getting in some early practice.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There's an extremely strong argument to be made for either, the Osirian Psybirds (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Osirian_Psybrid) and Khrave (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khrave) did fairly well for themselves relying on innate psychic prowess, but then again, so did the Tau by eschewing it entirely. No planet choice is worthless, and each is assured to recoup at least its value in points.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 09, 2020, 11:45:55 am

Remember: Humanity grew up in an era of warp-calmness as well, even in spite of having some sensitivity. The outcome was Old Night.

There may be some benefit to non-oxygen or exotic atmosphere existence - we wouldn't be directly competing with oxygen-breathers for planets and certain groups of oxygenated genocidal xenophobes would find invading our worlds difficult, as well as making extended occupation nearly impossible. Granted, most such people would just bomb the world from orbit until nothing remains, but it's an edge.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Very true, plenty of Disadvantages could be made beneficial with some creativity.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 09, 2020, 11:56:47 am

Quote from: Votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (3): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk
Nirur Torir plan 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (2): KJ proton, SC777
MetalSlimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (1): Nirur

I prefer having a system that has 2 Habitable planets, I'd probably replace the Immaterial for Oxygen, but oh well.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:22:22 pm

Thinking extremely long-term, plentiful warp routes is a danger. The Imperium or a comparable galactic-level power would inevitably end up wanting that system. System-scale resources and *maybe* even a nearby nebula resource we could conceivably mine out and thus render undesirable to anything unpleasant we might bump in to, since it's unlikely that even with good choices in a universe of stupid we could become a galactic power against the incredibly goofy predestinations of the galactic screwups.

Early contact with others is not a problem, it may allow us to get in some early conquering and become much more capable for it, whereas being in a sparse region makes us perhaps more likely to safely develop but might not be such a great boon later on when we find it more difficult to maintain a sufficiently warlike state to oppose whoever might want to come knock us over for our goodies.

The Warp is bad, pure and simple. Maybe with sufficient tech we could circumvent the need for the Warp at all, maybe not, but I really would not recommend a thin Immaterium veil for fear of the consequences of being attuned to the Warp on those (far too plentiful) occasions that reality literally breaks.

Honestly I find that this phase has a few too many options to keep track of, though maybe that's just me and my unfocused self right now.

Quote from: Votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk, Madman
Nirur Torir plan 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (2): KJ proton, SC777
MetalSlimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (1): Nirur

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 12:25:17 pm

I'm a bit tempted to drop acidic oceans, as acid resistance doesn't help as much after we get powered armor, and it'll slow our growth a bit.

Quote from: andrea on June 09, 2020, 10:38:27 am

Hm. boring later on is a fair point, maybe we don't need to be fully isolated. I would still rather not be crowded however.

Do I have your vote if I swap that out? It still leads to a different play paradigm than an isolated and rich start.

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 11:34:27 am

I'd also prefer a more interesting home system as an impetus for exploration and expansion, otherwise Nirur II: the Evolutioning looks fine to me. So I'd probably be swapping out Empty Home System for Frequent Meteorites (trusting in the caverns to reduce a portion of that danger).

Every disaster slows us down relative to our neighbors, apparently on top of the evolution perks, and I don't want to be too far behind on a plan dedicated to being great soldiers.
That said, I'm hoping that the nexus will bring us some early traffic to encourage space, or that thin veil will make it easier to notice the nexus and get early FTL.

Barren + high-g does limit our home system space infrastructure even more than the radiation and thin veil do. I'm banking on that slowing our overall growth less than meteorites would. We'd still lose cities with them unless we spent the resources to build entirely underground.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:22:22 pm

Honestly I find that this phase has a few too many options to keep track of, though maybe that's just me and my unfocused self right now.

I see three main schools of thought: Isolated and rich, crowded and slightly less rich, and my new plan focused on evolving to be strong (and breathing oxygen).

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:27:42 pm

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 12:25:17 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:22:22 pm

Honestly I find that this phase has a few too many options to keep track of, though maybe that's just me and my unfocused self right now.

I see three main schools of thought: Isolated and rich, crowded and slightly less rich, and my new plan focused on evolving to be strong (and breathing oxygen).

I meant in terms of GM-provided options, not suggested plans.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 09, 2020, 12:36:40 pm

A thought occurs. We don't just have to survive first contact with the Imperium, because on this timescale that's not likely to be the first time we meet humanity.

We have to survive: The first human galactic expansion ("Federation") -> The Iron Men rebellion -> The Fall of the Eldar -> Old Night (galactic warp travel collapse for thousands of years) -> The Great Crusade -> The Horus Heresy -> and then ten-thousand years of the moldering Imperium.

And we have no way to know in advance when we'll first be introduced to...that, and that's just human-related galactic disasters.

Fuck. This is gonna be hard no matter how it goes.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 09, 2020, 12:44:26 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:27:42 pm

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 12:25:17 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 09, 2020, 12:22:22 pm

Honestly I find that this phase has a few too many options to keep track of, though maybe that's just me and my unfocused self right now.

I see three main schools of thought: Isolated and rich, crowded and slightly less rich, and my new plan focused on evolving to be strong (and breathing oxygen).

I meant in terms of GM-provided options, not suggested plans.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's fair and I was worried that I might've been overdoing it at the time of posting with 12 Advantages, 12 Disadvantages, and 7 assorted System aspects to sort through, but there's a massive amount of things to take into account for the sake of versimillitude and I figure it's easier (and more fun for everyone involved) to do it with a rudimentary point concept all at once than ramble on for fifteen updates and a few more days asking about each individual part of the home-world or home-system.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 09, 2020, 12:36:40 pm

A thought occurs. We don't just have to survive first contact with the Imperium, because on this timescale that's not likely to be the first time we meet humanity.

We have to survive: The first human galactic expansion ("Federation") -> The Iron Men rebellion -> The Fall of the Eldar -> Old Night (galactic warp travel collapse for thousands of years) -> The Great Crusade -> The Horus Heresy -> and then ten-thousand years of the moldering Imperium.

And we have no way to know in advance when we'll first be introduced to...that, and that's just human-related galactic disasters.

Fuck. This is gonna be hard no matter how it goes.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

There's a reason I went with the 40k setting for the idea of a gestalt alien evolution+civ-building+spacefaring civ thread, and not just because it's popular and I'm mildly severely obsessed with the lore myself. This ought to be !!FUN!! in the sense we're all familiar with. On the upside, your home-system's location is relatively out of the way and that gives you some breathing room on the macro-scale, micro-isolation/crowding aside.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 12:56:23 pm

GM question:
Can we write in minor perks here?
I'm thinking of a pair making our moon slightly richer, with the minerals visible through a telescope, at the cost of guaranteeing a super-predator evolves to hunt us. I don't want it to be on the level of a deathworld predator, but evolved specifically against our strengths and weaknesses. I imagine smaller tribes will usually escape notice and be fine, but larger tribes will start to see problems. Iron age cities might be able to be relatively safe, with enough investment, but we wouldn't be able to properly properly deal with them until around the industrial era.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 09, 2020, 01:03:45 pm

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Well, that, and it's a novel way to interact with the setting from a legitimately alien perspective, instead of the standard lens from the Imperium. Life on the planet guaranteed not to be eradicated before something has developed sapience, and from there, I'll be keeping track of the timeline and slowly increasing the small chances of outside intervention accordingly. I have a handful charts for determining circumstances and will be doing a lot of rolling behind the scenes, I want to rely on GM fiat as little as possible. The guarantee of a prosperous, thriving future for the descendants of your species is achievable, but it won't come easily and it will be a long way getting there.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 12:56:23 pm

GM question:
Can we write in minor perks here?
I'm thinking of a pair making our moon slightly richer, with the minerals visible through a telescope, at the cost of guaranteeing a super-predator evolves to hunt us. I don't want it to be on the level of a deathworld predator, but evolved specifically against our strengths and weaknesses. I imagine smaller tribes will usually escape notice and be fine, but larger tribes will start to see problems. Iron age cities might be able to be relatively safe, with enough investment, but we wouldn't be able to properly deal with them until around the industrial era.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Dangerous predators (or at least, local predator-equivalents) are nigh-guaranteed to evolve, but having a superpredator occur much sooner and deadlier than it otherwise might have in exchange for a mineral-rich moon is reasonable. It would make things much more difficult for you while you're in the animal stage and for some time afterward because it won't stop evolving in the event you've developed a counter, but if you can get the support for it that's perfectly acceptable. An example of the extent of an explicitly superpredator perfectly adapted to hunting the species as you're talking about would be a rare variant of bengal tiger that prefers human-shaped prey and happens to have a chameleon-esque hide and a fast-acting paralytic venom. Not impossible for stone-age humans to overcome but far, far from trivial.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: piratejoe on June 09, 2020, 02:03:39 pm

I quite like the idea of super soldiers, but I want an actual, you know, home system that's more than just our little ball of dirt. This plan can best be described as just trying to put us in the best position we can possibly be in without leaving our home system once we get into the space age...

Also may as well just stop lurking and actually get involved.

Plan Super Soldiers with the resources to do it.

Thin Atmosphere
Oxygenic Atmosphere + Crowded Star Region
Packed Home-System + Frequent Meteorites
Asteroid Belt + Thin Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks + Sporadic Orbit
Mineral Abundance + Exotic Phenomena

Barren Planet (Warm, closer to the sun than us, yet its surface is empty, filled with naught but sand. 1)
Home Planet (It is our home, with our one moon.)
Mineral Planet (Cold, but not too far. Our 'neighbor' behind us. Taunting, with its bounty. 5)
Rocky Planet (Within the rings of the belt of asteroids that surround the harsh star is a particularly large and battered rock. 3)
Ringed Gas Giant (Far in the distance, a mass of green forever spinning. While the ring itself is thin, their are many larger rocks in its orbit worth harvesting. 8)
Rocky Planet (A moon of the large swirl of green. Richer than its smaller kin by mere size alone. 3)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 02:39:52 pm

Quote from: piratejoe on June 09, 2020, 02:03:39 pm

I quite like the idea of super soldiers, but I want an actual, you know, home system that's more than just our little ball of dirt. This plan can best be described as just trying to put us in the best position we can possibly be in without leaving our home system once we get into the space age...

Exotic Phenomena

The more I think about it, the less I trust Exotic Phenomena. It's an unknown ticking time bomb, and I don't think it fits with making our home system as good as we can.


I'm revamping Plan Soldiers, swapping the acid oceans to remove some neighbors, and taking the trade to make our moon rich and give us superpredators. It will hopefully be enough to jump-start our space industry.

Quote from:  Plan Soldiers revamp

Thin Atmosphere
Oxygenic Atmosphere + Empty Home-System
Warp Route Nexus + Thin Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks + Sporadic Orbit
Rich Moon + Superpredators (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151840#msg8151840)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 05:02:36 pm

I will say, while I had my whole thing about “aliens isolated in their caverns looking out blah blah blah poetic” I find myself the most attached to Lack of Warp Routes, Thick Immaterium Veil, and Cavern Networks in particular; the factions that build tech to get around that ISN’T just warp drives I always find quite cool indeed, and building up a tech base absent the immaterium and watching it slam into a universe full of it sounds very cool to me. Like the Tau, or Necrons.

Also, I really do like the thought of sequestered cavern people, at least early on before they start heading out into space.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 06:31:38 pm

Of the twelve bonuses and drawbacks, there are seven that are sliders:
Isolated <-> Crowded Star Region
Packed <-> Empty Home System
Abundant <-> Scarce (Home) Minerals
Warp Lane Nexus <-> Warp Lanes Lacking
Thick <-> Thin Veil
Thin <-> Ideal Atmosphere
Oxygen <-> Exotic Breathing

- The ease of spread from breathing Oxygen probably should not be underestimated, even if the other possibilities increase our defensive rating.
- I'm personally in favor of a more interesting sky.
- I wouldn't mind a psyker oriented path, but I'm not going to insist on it. I'm willing to go material if it means a larger consensus.

The other five selections in each category are more like standalone features. They're a bit harder to quantify but that just makes them more interesting.

Quote from: mightymushroom 2nd edition: Room to Grow?

Oxygenic Atmosphere
Packed Home System + Crowded Star Region
Cavern Networks + Electromagnetic Storms
Geothermal Activity + Sporadic Orbit

[[Option: Dense Immaterial Veil + Lack of Warp Routes]] "lead us not into temptation"

Home Planet (~ .8 AU)
Habitable World (Cost 10; ~ 1.5 AU, similar to Mars: with a slightly larger ball that retains more atmosphere it could still be considered the cold side of Goldilocks)
Gas Giant (Cost 5; ~4.9 AU, about Jupiter at perihelion)(we have just one, let's make it superjovian)
Mineral Planet (Cost 5; ~4.9 AU, somewhat improbably at the leading Lagrange point)(probably gets name Herald or Harbinger or whatever local deity)

Few evolutionary advantages, but not much to slow us down either. The worst is probably sporadic orbit, but we're already hiding from the intense radiation of our sun so we'll take it in stride. Once civilization and technology develop, we have an abundant energy source to help us punch through the electromagnetic storms; material resources are not extra abundant but what exists is well exposed by the fractured crust.

Assuming we make it into space instead of cowering underground, a second habitable world awaits, rather on the chilly side but also with quite a bit less ionizing radiation thanks to inverse square law. Between that and the caverns, we have quite a bit of room to spread out.

Farther out yet we have rich sources of both minerals and gases to feed interstellar efforts. Since the evolutionary phase was (hopefully) straightforward we have only the problem of shielding our high tech to really slow us down. And a cultural penchant for heavy shielding will serve our spacefaring mole people quite nicely when they find out they are not alone.

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 09, 2020, 11:56:47 am

I prefer having a system that has 2 Habitable planets, I'd probably replace the Immaterial for Oxygen, but oh well.

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 09, 2020, 05:02:36 pm

I will say, while I had my whole thing about “aliens isolated in their caverns looking out blah blah blah poetic” I find myself the most attached to Lack of Warp Routes, Thick Immaterium Veil, and Cavern Networks in particular; the factions that build tech to get around that ISN’T just warp drives I always find quite cool indeed, and building up a tech base absent the immaterium and watching it slam into a universe full of it sounds very cool to me. Like the Tau, or Necrons.

Also, I really do like the thought of sequestered cavern people, at least early on before they start heading out into space.

Got you both covered, I think.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 09, 2020, 08:44:51 pm

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This is somewhat awkward to ask, but could someone fill me in on how to hyperlink to a specific post, as in the Votebox below?

Quote from: Votebox

Powder miner plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4): Powder miner, Andrea, Kashyyk, Madman
Nirur Torir plan 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566)(1): King Zultan
Glass plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1): Glass
Kilojoule Proton plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (2): KJ proton, SC777
MetalSlimeHunt plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1): MSH
Naturegirl1999 plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1): Naturegirl
Nirur Plan 2: Superior Soldiers (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (1): Nirur

I'm trying to come up with a tally to post for the reference for future reference and anyone considering pitching in/changing their mind, but I'm not quite sure how to get the line of data from the post itself which goes into the hyperlink, which is similar to but distinct from the same in the quote. It'd be no problem to do a conventional tally, but a little ill-considerate toward andrea, who was the first to post it, and everyone else that's added theirs to the count. That, and the function could be handy later on when you're hopefully managing an expansionist space empire, or failing that, a nomadic fleet/isolationist bulwark, or, failing that, any one of a dozen possible near-extinction scenarios; a distant colony that survived a collapse situation, the battered remnants of a once-proud civilization thrust into servitude, a splinter faction of inexplicably (or terrifyingly) subtle infiltrators that's lost contact with the home-system, etc. The spacefaring stage is going to be a lot of fun, and I mean that in both definitions of the term.

Getting into and developing the alien (or shockingly/treacherously human) mindset from the start up until breaking out of orbit is going to be great too, don't feel pigeonholed into the grimdark warmonger/xenophobe ethos, there's no reason not to reject that and carve something else in your region of the galaxy, if not farther. Evenhanded diplomacy is possible, rarely successful in the long-term, but if the Tau have done it, there's nothing saying your species can't. That said, embedding intense instinct to default to paranoia, aggression, opportunism, or something sinister and stranger into their genes is perfectly valid too. Not to mention the prospects of doing both at once, to any extent.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 08:51:45 pm

Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)

The subject line for an individual post has a link that you can insert to jump to that post.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: piratejoe on June 09, 2020, 10:01:12 pm

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 09, 2020, 02:39:52 pm

The more I think about it, the less I trust Exotic Phenomena. It's an unknown ticking time bomb, and I don't think it fits with making our home system as good as we can.

Considering this, I think I've made something a bit better. This now is more of a local Turtle style game. Lack of warp routes helps us as much as it hurts, after all, there's only so many ways our enemies can come at us...Also if you don't mind I'm stealing that last bonus and penalty.

Plan Baton Down the Hatches.

Thin Atmosphere
Oxygenic Atmosphere + Crowded Star Region
Packed Home-System + Frequent Meteorites
Asteroid Belt + Thin Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks + Sporadic Orbit
Mineral Abundance + Lack of Warp Routes.
Rich Moon + Superpredators (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151840#msg8151840)

Barren Planet (Warm, closer to the sun than us, yet its surface is empty, filled with naught but sand. 1)
Home Planet (It is our home, with our one moon.)
Mineral Planet (Cold, but not too far. Our 'neighbor' behind us. Taunting, with its bounty. 5)
Rocky Planet (Within the rings of the belt of asteroids that surround the harsh star is a particularly large and battered rock. 3)
Ringed Gas Giant (Far in the distance, a mass of green forever spinning. While the ring itself is thin, their are many larger rocks in its orbit worth harvesting. 8 )
Rocky Planet (A moon of the large swirl of green. Richer than its smaller kin by mere size alone. 3)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 08:26:08 am

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 09, 2020, 08:51:45 pm

Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)

The subject line for an individual post has a link that you can insert to jump to that post.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Thank you, I appreciate the response. As near as I can tell, this is the current state of the votes:

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (2) Kilojoule Proton, Shadowclaw777
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (1) Naturegirl1999
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (1) Nirur Torir
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Powder Miner's Plan is in the lead, closely followed by Kilojoule Proton. Because it's somewhat close and the results are important in the long-term, I'm going to give you two more hours to decide. Then I'll tally it again and we can move on to the second stage: figuring out what life defaults to on the planet and where the species' evolutionary ancestor falls in it.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 10, 2020, 08:39:48 am

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (2) Kilojoule Proton, Shadowclaw777
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (0)
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (2) Nirur Torir, NG
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 09:44:04 am

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1) Kilojoule Proton
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (0)
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (3) Nirur Torir, NG, Shadowclaw777
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Puppyguard on June 10, 2020, 10:32:08 am

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1) Kilojoule Proton
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (0)
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (4) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (4) Nirur Torir, NG, Shadowclaw777, Puppyguard
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 10:33:17 am

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1) Kilojoule Proton
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (0)
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (0)
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (5) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237, MetalSlimeHunt
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (4) Nirur Torir, NG, Shadowclaw777, Puppyguard
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 11:36:31 am

Quote from:  Star System Vote

Glass's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151551#msg8151551) (1) Glass
Kilojoule Proton's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151553#msg8151553) (1) Kilojoule Proton
MetalSlimeHunt's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151557#msg8151557) (0)
Nirur Torir's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151566#msg8151566) (1) King Zultan
Naturegirl1999's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151577#msg8151577) (0)
mightymushroom's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151595#msg8151595) (0)
Powder Miner's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151631#msg8151631) (5) Power Miner, andrea, Kashyyk, Madman198237, MetalSlimeHunt
Tyrant Leviathan's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151682#msg8151682) (1) Tyrant Leviathan
Nirur Torir's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151742#msg8151742) (0)
IncompetentForteessMaker's Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151784#msg8151784) (1) IncompetentFortressMaker
piratejoe's 1st Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151869#msg8151869) (0)
Nirur Torir's 2.1st Plan: (Super Soldiers): (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151877#msg8151877) (4) Nirur Torir, NG, Shadowclaw777, Puppyguard
mightymushroom's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8151976#msg8151976) (1) mightymushroom
piratejoe's 2nd Plan: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8152043#msg8152043) (1) piratejoe

Quote from:  Powder Miner's Plan

Advantages:

Isolated Star System
Thick Immaterial Veil
Cavern Networks
Mineral Abundance

Disadvantages:

Frequent Meteorites
Ideal Atmosphere
Lack of Warp Routes

Star System:
Barren Planet (close to sun)
2 Rocky Planets (neighbor planets to ours, in terms of orbital distance)
Gas Giant (a gargantuan body, far away, looming)

Ken to Terra in Sol, the planet is the third to orbit its star and boasts a singular moon at no less than one-fourth its size. All else is alien, four satellites share in its embrace, a ball of ashen sand and glass hurtling in a precarious balance, two spheres rough in texture, bereft of moisture, no less misshapen than their neighbor, one at the forefront, one behind, and one titanic mass of yawning intensity and churning fog scraping the frigid outskirts. The system, with five satellites in its totality, is distinct in its isolation. Not only in the southern region of the Galaxy, it's even further from any semblance of companionship, nearing the bottomless void, almost on the barrier between an infinitude glittering pinpricks and the yawning maw of endless dark. More than that, the Immaterium holds no sway here, nestled in a pocket of lasting normalcy, neither the turmoil of the Warp nor psychic phenomena, at once miraculous and profane, will manifest within its bounds. Only the constants flickering of wandering comets and the tapestry of stars out of reach stir thoughts of what lies beyond. For the safety of isolation and dangers of opportunities lost, the system is as well and truly alone as any can be in the spiteful vastness of an uncaring Galaxy.

Between the cracked and chipped pair, so similar as to be twins save for the differing shape of the shattered rock jutting out and sweltering heat or gnawing cold clinging to their surface, the planet plies its course as it has countless millions of times before. Like the others, its surface is cracked and splintered though far from shattered, and its tectonic activity has slowed to a glacial pace, leaving the crust static but replete with a mineral bounty outstripping man's site of origin thrice over and then again, when the sheer measure of its sprawling bulk is taken.

Unlike either, it lies in the perfect position for liquid water to manifest en-masse and so it has, coalescing into pools set apart by leagues of blasted waste and dancing to a cyclic tune beneath the weight of the moon. Once liquid, the millennia have seen its steady motion carve the stone asunder, and the peculiarities of the crust have led its winding course to chisel a tremendous and intricate network of caverns, tunnels, and chasms nary a fathom below the surface. Some are submerged but most are dry, baring stagnant lakes and gentle flow; almost all have a tenuous connection to the conventional caves and outcroppings of the mountainous surface. There, the planet's second unusual aspect is readily apparent.

An anomaly among its peers, a combination of pressing gravity and the random gasps in an epoch gone by have seen the atmosphere become thick but not cloying, and clear but not permeable. Were living organisms to evolve amid these conditions, for all the radiation scouring their nascent frames, they would find breath in abundance and so, as if snatching an opportunity, deep in the shallow depths of the planet's easternmost ocean, arbitrary chance or divine providence has seen the process begin. Even now, microcellular life takes shape, strange and alien, but no abomination, for there are no judgemental eyes to see and appraise what takes place.

What material is this infantile existence wrought from?

Carbon: Often considered to be the default among spacefaring species, and for good reason, carbon-based lifeforms boast a versatility unmatched and such is the simplicity of their internal chemistry, can find the farthest ranges of the cosmos to be accommodating, given a nudge here or there.
Silicon: An extreme rarity even among the varied and multidinous life-forms of the galaxy, silicon-based lifeforms seem near-hewn from stone and bear a strength and durability that belies their mass, but unusual micro-reactions necessitate exacting conditions, ones rarely fulfilled without great effort.
Something Exotic: Preposterous in a system subsumed by the material, what evolves here will count itself among the oddities of the stygian Umbra and Immaterial-dwelling Enslavers. (Incompatible with System Conditions)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
Home-System Traits:
- Isolated Star System
- Thick Immaterial Veil
- Frequent Meteorites
- Lack of Warp Routes
Home-World Traits:
- Cavern Networks
- Mineral Abundance
- Ideal Atmosphere

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 10, 2020, 12:06:15 pm

Silicon

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 12:25:11 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Silicon (1): NG
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 10, 2020, 12:26:59 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Silicon (2): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker
Something Exotic (0):I also vote silicon, just because I personally think carbon-based lifeforms are so common that if we are carbon-based lifeforms, we'll probably never be of note - after all, what with the number of species in the galaxy, there's probably a carbon-based lifeform to fill every nook, niche, and cranny imaginable. The same may not be true of silicon. No, this is not a speech.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 12:56:48 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Silicon (3): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman
Something Exotic (0):

I mean, I kind of want to suggest that multiple forms of life somehow arose on our planet so we could have carbon competing with silicon or whatnot. Also, I'm now regretful we didn't have exotic materials or whatever it was that would've allowed us to be made of something exotic.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 10, 2020, 12:59:19 pm

Carbon.
We're isolated so we don't need the combat strength, and difficult FTL means our colonies are going to be hard enough to start without the great effort terraforming for silicon life would need need.

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (2): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur
Silicon (3): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Superdorf on June 10, 2020, 01:06:25 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf
Silicon (3): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman
Something Exotic (0):[/quote]

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 10, 2020, 01:17:51 pm

Quote from: Superdorf on June 10, 2020, 01:06:25 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur
Silicon (4): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL
Something Exotic (0):

[/quote]

Let’s stand out.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 01:21:21 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?
Silicon (5): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777
Something Exotic (0):
I mean what other silicon life form can be that isn’t just rock-“something”?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 01:38:23 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?
Silicon (6): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner
Something Exotic (0):
become... rokk
(but ideally not rok)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 10, 2020, 01:43:16 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (4): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom
Silicon (6): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 01:43:28 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 12:56:48 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Silicon (3): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman
Something Exotic (0):

I mean, I kind of want to suggest that multiple forms of life somehow arose on our planet so we could have carbon competing with silicon or whatnot. Also, I'm now regretful we didn't have exotic materials or whatever it was that would've allowed us to be made of something exotic.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Exotic life-forms would've been partially Warp-based and reliant on the mutable physics of the Immaterium to sustain themselves, something that isn't possible with the Thick Immaterial Veil ensuring that the material reality is left to its own devices. Such a species would simultaneously be more vulnerable and resistant to the Warp, because it's inherently exposed and natural selection would trend toward those able to handle its fluctuation. The Umbra (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Umbra) are an example of a species that isn't beholden to conventional physics, but predominately inhabits the Materium. Most examples of partially Warp-extant entities are daemonic to some extent, but assuming permeable conditions, it'd be remiss not to leave the option open.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 10, 2020, 12:59:19 pm

Carbon.
We're isolated so we don't need the combat strength, and difficult FTL means our colonies are going to be hard enough to start without the great effort terraforming for silicon life would need need.

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (2): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur
Silicon (3): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman
Something Exotic (0):

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The reason Silicon-based life-forms are less able to [Planet_Name]form is that the chemical is much less versatile than carbon, and getting a habitable planet to abide by the silicon-centered system that would emerge in place of conventional amino acids elsewhere, on top of their physical needs, namely gravity and temperature, is much more intricate than tweaking what biosphere's already there.

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 01:21:21 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?
Silicon (5): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777
Something Exotic (0):
I mean what other silicon life form can be that isn’t just rock-“something”?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

To be fair, it could be argued that carbon-based life is just organic-something, there's a lot of room to maneuver around in, and whichever way the vote goes, there's no guarantee that the shape of the end-result will be similar to anything that could be found in the Terran biosphere.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kashyyk on June 10, 2020, 01:58:31 pm

Code: (Biochemistry Vote) [Select]

Carbon (5): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk
Silicon (6): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MrThrowaway on June 10, 2020, 02:09:59 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (6): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway
Silicon (6): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 10, 2020, 02:29:45 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (6): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway
Silicon (7): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner, Kilojoule Proton
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Screech9791 on June 10, 2020, 03:11:40 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (6): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway
Silicon (8): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra
Something Exotic (0):
Let's go with sentient rock people. It's surely going to be a boulder option than being a lame carbon-based life form, and plus, the concept of being made of a material that's way harder to destroy than flesh just rocks.

Plus, why not travel the void in cool looking spaceship-shaped rocks?

^{also I will be do a favor in my future forum games for anyone who gifts me the Lithoids Species Pack dlc for Stellaris, my steam name is Punishing Screech}

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IronyOwl on June 10, 2020, 03:30:15 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (7): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl
Silicon (8): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra
Something Exotic (0):I kinda skimmed this but fundamental chemistry seems like a weird place to trade versatility for Being Special^TM.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 10, 2020, 03:35:24 pm

Quote from: 0cra_tr0per on June 10, 2020, 03:11:40 pm

Let's go with sentient rock people. It's surely going to be a boulder option than being a lame carbon-based life form, and plus, the concept of being made of a material that's way harder to destroy than flesh just rocks.

Aarrgh that pun.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 03:39:32 pm

I’m not super invested in the outcome of this particular vote, but if we do go silicon, since it will add a significant bias (and my system plan means we’re pretty tilted towards this already) towards building up our home system for a long time while we struggle our way towards colonization, I wonder if we could end up building the many caverns of our planet and more tunnels throughout the underground into a massive ecumenopolis that one day rivals Commoragh (as much as any one planet can do that, anyhow).

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 03:44:18 pm

Why rival Commoragh when we can just steal Commoragh?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 03:46:18 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 03:44:18 pm

Why rival Commoragh when we can just steal Commoragh?

Because TTS taught me that Commorragh is basically the most hellish of all the magical space hells in this twisted universe?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 10, 2020, 03:48:04 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 03:44:18 pm

Why rival Commoragh when we can just steal Commoragh?

Our silacon soldiers would have real trouble in any extended siege or offensive, and we'll need to keep the supply lines running perfectly.

I really worry that this will lock us into playing tall, with big stick defense, because going wide becomes almost impossible.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 10, 2020, 03:52:32 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (7): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl
Silicon (9): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Powder Miner, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21
Something Exotic (0):Carbon is lame

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 03:55:49 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner
Silicon (8): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21
Something Exotic (0):Actually, you know what, I thought about it and going Silicon doesn’t really give advantages that I think would be worth essentially entirely closing ourselves off — if we want to do a high-tech built-up kind of empire, we can do that just fine with carbon, as silicon doesn’t much help with that, and as my system plan already biases us towards that, what with the lack of warp routes and the ideal atmosphere choices. Going silicon pushes that into a pretty far extreme without really benefitting us besides making us stronk, which I don’t care about as much. I like rokk and all, but...

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 10, 2020, 04:09:09 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (9): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Glass
Silicon (8): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21
Something Exotic (0):
I know I said I wanted us to be silicon-based at the start, but I'd thought that would involve increased environmental resilience, not decreased. It just doesn't seem worth it.
Everyone and their mother has mech suits in this setting, we can use those for strength.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 04:13:41 pm

Hey since circuitry is largely made of silicon, would silicon-based life be more capable of using biomechanical augments and the like?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 04:32:52 pm

I wouldn’t imagine such, personally... it’s not like the presence of an element in a substance makes that substance more “compatible” with other substances containing that element, after all. We may be drinking ethanol, sure, but we’re not exactly drinking propane.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 04:37:29 pm

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The trade-off with silicon is that its structural composition offers strength and durability that would be difficult to match without significant adaptions from carbon, but makes it difficult to survive indefinitely on carbon-based biospheres, as the carbon is incompatible with the digestive system designed to interface with a silicon-base. There's nothing preventing a silicon species from making appendage-lengths onto an alien planet or even breathing the atmosphere, if the chemicals their respiratory systems require are present in reasonable amounts, but a silicon species can't settle a world with a carbon-based biosphere without first replacing it with their own silicon system or finding a workaround.

They are rocks, yes, but they are living, respirating organisms and would have as much difficulty colonizing a barren stone as a carbon species. The problem is that carbon will have already established a near-monopoly on habitable worlds in the same orbital range as the species' home-world by the time the species is likely to reach a spacefaring state, which requires an additional step to the [Planet_Name]forming process. Neither are inherently more or less difficult, their biospheres are just incompatible. If anything, a silicon species would have an easier time handling some extremes of temperature, and withstanding a carbon environment isn't made any harder by their much more durable forms, but sustaining their alien chemistry indefinitely is where the complications arise.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 04:13:41 pm

Hey since circuitry is largely made of silicon, would silicon-based life be more capable of using biomechanical augments and the like?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That depending on the specifics of the silicon life-form, but assuming the augment was calibrated with their biology in mind, they might have an easier time of it, or might not, if they had an overactive immune system equivalent and were prone to assuming it was harmful foreign material, somewhat similar to a human body reacting badly to a liver transplant. More grafting an artificially gene-edited organ onto a body than installing a foreign cybernetic part, but the augmetic itself doesn't necessarily have the same underlying biochemistry or biostructure for that matter, and there's still a slew of complications that could occur. Think grafting an artificial organic limb onto a stump, if they didn't have the same genetic material to begin with or a way of mitigating that, there could be problems.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 10, 2020, 05:00:06 pm

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 04:37:29 pm

The trade-off with silicon is that its structural composition offers strength and durability that would be difficult to match without significant adaptions from carbon, but makes it difficult to survive indefinitely on carbon-based biospheres, as the carbon is incompatible with the digestive system designed to interface with a silicon-base. There's nothing preventing a silicon species from making appendage-lengths onto an alien planet or even breathing the atmosphere, if the chemicals their respiratory systems require are present in reasonable amounts, but a silicon species can't settle a world with a carbon-based biosphere without first replacing it with their own silicon system or finding a workaround.

They are rocks, yes, but they are living, respirating organisms and would have as much difficulty colonizing a barren stone as a carbon species. The problem is that carbon will have already established a near-monopoly on habitable worlds in the same orbital range as the species' home-world by the time the species is likely to reach a spacefaring state, which requires an additional step to the [Planet_Name]forming process. Neither are inherently more or less difficult, their biospheres are just incompatible. If anything, a silicon species would have an easier time handling some extremes of temperature, and withstanding a carbon environment isn't made any harder by their much more durable forms, but sustaining their alien chemistry indefinitely is where the complications arise.

Ok, 1. you really don't need to put all of your OOC comments in spoilers, and 2. ...is just eating rocks and metals not an option? I'm pretty sure there's lithovores even on Earth.
Or at least, figuring out how to process rocks and the like into edible forms.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 05:30:53 pm

Having completely incompatible chemistry would *mostly* be vulnerable to, say, reactions that proceed differently in the wrong kind of atmosphere. For example, something that lives in a freakishly lithium-rich environment might have *serious* problems entering an oxygen atmosphere when their body's own chemistry is turned against them.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 05:31:07 pm

A funny thing is that although the human body reacts badly to living transplants, it actually reacts fairly well to cybernetics made with proper materials. Look up the results of Kevin Warwick's Project Cyborg experiments for more, but the short of it is that the nervous system and the brain both reacted with "sure, I guess" when hooked up to an electrode array controlling a machine. The Mechanicus may not be so far-fetched as you'd think...

Not that this helps us, unless this species gets the same kind of cybernetic adaptability.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 10, 2020, 05:37:29 pm

autochemotrophs are a thing.  They mostly live in the deep ocean in hot water vents that are filled with reduced sulfur compounds, but in an irradiated environment, a strong scouring UV source that breaks atomic bonds down (and thus produces energetic free radicals that can then be used for metabolic purposes) could enable a plethora of inorganic substances to be used as chemical energy sources.  It would mean that our biology would be very high-energy resistant, and thus would need pretty strongly chemically active materials to use as food. (Strong acids, highly reactive alkaline earth metals, corrosive gasses like chlorine, etc) that form very strong bonds, and have strong bond energies. (Otherwise the solar radiation would degrade our organism as well!)

I am thinking this:

Silicon based life that uses chlorine instead of oxygen. Perhaps with silicon tetrachloride + water reaction to produce silicon oxide and hydrochloric acid as waste product.  The water should be the result of internal chemistry from the decomposition of minerals, via UV radiation, in a process similar to photosynthesis. (in that a high energy radiation source is harnessed as an energy source to produce substances inside a lifeform. In this case, it is the harsh high energy particles and UV light from our star.) This would allow us to produce a silicondioxide exoskeleton, (or a complex of compound silicates to exploit chirality and crystal structures to create something both flexible and highly resistant to radiation, external sources of water, and mechanical attack)

This kind of metabolism would enable us to have a ready supply of "Highly deadly" waste we could employ against ordinary lifeforms. 

Since chlorine is so reactive, suggest we consume it in the form of rare-earth salts, and to have evolved to consume such salts in crystallized form, as well as adaptations (evolutionary) to consume strongly saline water (despite the toxicity of the water.)

Flavor description: Exoskeleton replete with microscopic ridges and structures between secreted silicate mineral crystal type boundaries, which capture and absorb high energy photons, and convert that energy directly into internal electrical potentials. (Photovoltaics, and the like.)  (see also, this article (https://www.laserfocusworld.com/test-measurement/research/article/16552715/nanospikes-add-new-functionality) about how adding these to silicon based photo cells improves their performance.) This would make our appearance very "Prismatic", similar to the "Structural colors" found in blue insects, or on peacock feathers.

Basically-- We eat salt, and rocks.  We exhale/urinate concentrated hydrochloric acid solution as a metabolic biproduct.  We utilize the rare-earth minerals and silicon compounds in the surrounding regolith, along with the ever-present high energy radiation from our star to perform this chemistry.  Our internals are liquid solutions suspended in silicon chloride solution. Water is theoretically toxic to us, but our exoskeletons prevent exposure from outside sources being harmful to us, and our digestive systems produce water in trace amounts as a biproduct, necessitating their resistance to it.  We do not respire in the normally conventional way; We expel a vapor/mist as a waste product, but do not inhale.  We metabolize some of the water our primary energy consumption mechanism produces to create silicon rubbers, and other flexible materials for our internal body structures. Our exoskeletons are thick, and ornate in appearance, with a shimmering prismatic quality, due to their use as both environmental protection and as an energy harvesting organ.  Nanostructures in the exoskeleton force lower energy photons to be re-emitted as higher energy ones, (shorter wavelengths) by acting as naturally occuring nanoscopic waveguides. To humans, our appearance is black and iridescent.   Our optical systems are adapted to use higher frequencies of light than humans. We utilize light in the ultraviolet and Xray spectra. We appear translucent to other members of our species.

Downside:  We *NEED* the high energy environment to survive.  Being naked in space poses little trouble to us aside from temperature and internal pressure regulation; we do not breathe, and the harsh, unfiltered radiation of a star is our food. Requirement of chloride minerals limits our ability to move to naked planetoids. (Without an atmosphere to help recycle those compounds via reaction with a local regolith, we would quickly run out of metabolic material and starve to death, despite being surrounded by otherwise edible rocks. HCl is a gas, and would escape into space without a suitably strong gravity well, and atmosphere.) As such, we still need "Biospheres", and space suits.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 05:47:57 pm

I like this entire proposal, and accuse you of being the nerdiest of nerds to have figured all that out :P

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 10, 2020, 05:55:28 pm

2 fun notes:

1: The Xenonorphs from Alien are silicon.

2: Silicon super cooled is a super conductor, in a freeze ship we could be voluntary battery power while functioning ( Gamera vs Legion. There the turtle fought an alien insect horde, that were silicon based.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 10, 2020, 05:58:22 pm

Wierd, I like that you figured things out, I like your proposal too.
Tyrant Leviathan, your notes are interezting

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 06:00:15 pm

So wait a moment the fungus Orks, the Skynet kill all organic robotic Necrons, and the Flood-knock off Nids (I simply jest 8) ) are all immune to Chaos because they don’t have any emotions and whatnot; so would it be possible to create a Silicion species that can’t feel or display any emotion besides pure calculating logical thinking result in them having the possibility of being immune or gaining a high level of resistance level to being corrupted?, that just seems to make the Rocky-bois the better pick imo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9txkrz/because_chaos_can_corrupt_anything_with_emotion/

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 10, 2020, 06:08:04 pm

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 06:00:15 pm

So wait a moment the fungus Orks, the Skynet kill all organic robotic Necrons, and the Flood-knock off Nids are all immune to Chaos because they don’t have any emotions and whatnot; so would it be possible to create a Silicion species that can’t feel or display any emotion besides pure calculating logical thinking result in them having the possibility of being immune or gaining a high level of resistance level to being corrupted?, that just seems to make the Rocky-bois the better pick imo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9txkrz/because_chaos_can_corrupt_anything_with_emotion/

Hold that phone.

1: Necrons are Egyptian themed rip offs of Terminators yes.

2: The Nids have been fighting in 40k since the 80s. The Flood and Zerg are rip offs of them.

Edit: Thank you Nature Girl, you have good ideas as well. I myself try not to vote for my own designs after Wands Race. : getting ptsd flashbacks.:

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 06:12:39 pm

No, that's not how Chaos works. The Orks are largely resistant because they have a strong communal psyker field which protects them, but also leaves them without free will. The Tyranids are resistant because they too don't have free will, only one emotion which is hunger, and they're immensely alien to the human-dominated warp so it isn't compatible with them. They just drown out Chaos with the hungry noise. The Necrons are immune as far as anyone knows, but don't get too complacent - AI are demonstrably not immune to Chaos and may even be more vulnerable. The Men of Iron were corrupted in this way. Also, the Necrons are almost all automatons or insane.

Chaos "feeds off emotions" because of the horror of the War in Heaven and humanity's inheritance of that legacy, but ultimately Chaos can come in myriad forms and adaptations. Powerful manifestations of the warp can corrupt pretty much anything to the extent that the term "Daemon World" is literal. The planet is a daemon.

There is no conclusive theory of the Warp because it doesn't follow physics and thus is allowed to contradict itself or exist in multiple ways at the same time, but I prefer the one laid out in the fic The Culture Explores Warhammer 40k (https://archiveofourown.org/works/649448/chapters/1181375) (warning, it's dead and unfinished if you want to read it, though a good read still). This treats the Warp as a system of varying and overlapping "patterns" which dictate the Warp's side of reality or lack thereof. Chaos in this model is like a prion disease, folding other patterns into it and to be like itself, trapping the Immaterium into knots of agony. This is why people corrupted by Chaos cannot be fixed no matter how much they want to rebel - the pattern of their soul has been fucked up by Chaos and turned towards it. At best, they can resist or destroy themselves before the pattern can correct them. This is also why the moment of "true corruption" is so inconsistent and why the Armor of Contempt works, when the Chaos prion goes beyond re-patterning your body with mutation to affect your consciousness instead and denying Chaos prions any mental wifi connection respectively.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 10, 2020, 06:13:51 pm

Silicon entities might still produce chemicals analogous to hormones, thus giving the ability to feel emotions. (Hormones govern our emotions. To me, it wouldn't be farfetched for silicon based species to have similar processes)
On the note of emotions, why do animals on Terra have them? I'm a human and don't really know why we have them in the first place. Like, I know other animals have them too, My question is why emotions evolved in animals on Terra in the first place, and why they stayed.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 06:21:02 pm

The evolutionary purpose of emotions is for advanced behavioral modeling in similarly-advanced forms of life. For unicellular life, fungi, plants, and such, proteins and hormones do well enough to ensure the machinery of life works. But ambulatory animal life needs better guidance on a more complex level to survive the genetic arms race, and so pressure towards developing emotions begins.

All emotions are useful for the species who have them, albeit inconvenient at times. Happiness encourages productive behaviors, disgust and fear avoid dangerous situations, anger helps survive conflict and confront problems, and sadness regulates so the other emotions don't get you going on suicide missions.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 10, 2020, 06:24:06 pm

Emotions are a good way to quickly get you to respond to something without needing you to consciously process it, or to make sure that you're prepared in case something happens - if you had to consciously register that there was something lurking around the edge of your vision and it may be hostile, it would be much more difficult to respond in time to the trouble it may pose. I can't say as well why we may have evolved happiness and the like, but, well, if all you felt was negative, "there's a threat" emotions all the time, would you want to live? They may have literally been a counter-evolution to prevent suicide or something.
I don't know, I'm more of a computer scientist and economist, this stuff isn't anywhere close to my area of expertise.

EDIT: And ninja'd. :p

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 10, 2020, 06:29:26 pm

On Necrons: Depends on the lore. Usually they are weaponized race of Star Gods that opposes the Warp. Hence anti warp tech ( the gate at casita was of their design.)

And yeah the warp is “the soul” of the material universe. Just fed up ten ways to Sunday.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 10, 2020, 06:30:13 pm

Emotions evolved as a means to perform a "Decision" automatically, and adapted into behavior controlling/modifying internal signals that improve survival.

Seeking out a companion because you are lonely, improves the chances of copulation, for instance.  Mutual collaborative efforts improve the survival rates of both participants, as another.  Thus, the urge to seek a companion has a strong survival bonus to the organism, even if that companionship is not sexual.

I am thinking that our nervous systems will be electrochemical, with semiconductor junctions, and should exploit energy gradients from saline substances being dissolved in our silicon chloride base solvent. (As opposed to sodium, potassium, and calcium ions being dissolved in water based solute in terrestrial life.)  This would make us somewhat of a bizzare mash up between a lithium salt battery, a solar collector, a conventional computer, and an electrolysis bath.

This would give us a bonus to grafting artificially constructed conventional computer components to our nervous systems, as long as their energy draw and heat production did not overtax our physiology. (We need the bio-electricity to drive our high-energy metabolism)

We may or may not have "instinctual programming", that results from a structural basis (wire based programming similar to ROM, that gets produced as part of our embryonic development), which strongly colors our decision making processes, and would serve a similar function to emotions in terrestrial lifeforms. 

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 06:54:42 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 10, 2020, 05:00:06 pm

Quote from: Ardent Debater on June 10, 2020, 04:37:29 pm

The trade-off with silicon is that its structural composition offers strength and durability that would be difficult to match without significant adaptions from carbon, but makes it difficult to survive indefinitely on carbon-based biospheres, as the carbon is incompatible with the digestive system designed to interface with a silicon-base. There's nothing preventing a silicon species from making appendage-lengths onto an alien planet or even breathing the atmosphere, if the chemicals their respiratory systems require are present in reasonable amounts, but a silicon species can't settle a world with a carbon-based biosphere without first replacing it with their own silicon system or finding a workaround.

They are rocks, yes, but they are living, respirating organisms and would have as much difficulty colonizing a barren stone as a carbon species. The problem is that carbon will have already established a near-monopoly on habitable worlds in the same orbital range as the species' home-world by the time the species is likely to reach a spacefaring state, which requires an additional step to the [Planet_Name]forming process. Neither are inherently more or less difficult, their biospheres are just incompatible. If anything, a silicon species would have an easier time handling some extremes of temperature, and withstanding a carbon environment isn't made any harder by their much more durable forms, but sustaining their alien chemistry indefinitely is where the complications arise.

Ok, 1. you really don't need to put all of your OOC comments in spoilers, and 2. ...is just eating rocks and metals not an option? I'm pretty sure there's lithovores even on Earth.
Or at least, figuring out how to process rocks and the like into edible forms.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I know I don't have to by any means, but it prevents my constant rambling from clogging the thread and serves as a nice, "formal" distinction between OOC tangents and IC updates. Nothing more than a personal preference, really, if you'd all prefer I posted normally I'd be fine with following suit, this is just generally my default. Evolving to consume rocks and minerals is a plenty viable option, especially given how mineral-dense the species' home-world is, but for a silicon life-form might be the equivalent to grazing, though speaking of food sources, there are some radiovores we're aware of. There's no hard rule against evolving to counter the complications of a chemical base largely alien to the broader galaxy or sidestepping them completely, to a further extent I absolutely encourage it, but approaching interplanetary colonization from a silicon foundation requires a different perspective from carbon. Where the Imperium could plant a few hundred thousand boots on a jungle planet and wait a few generations, there's no telling how a silicon species that hasn't even taken shape yet would approach the same.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 05:30:53 pm

Having completely incompatible chemistry would *mostly* be vulnerable to, say, reactions that proceed differently in the wrong kind of atmosphere. For example, something that lives in a freakishly lithium-rich environment might have *serious* problems entering an oxygen atmosphere when their body's own chemistry is turned against them.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Correct, this is generally overlooked in 40k, but I've always assumed that was because of the human viewpoint and Terraforming that went on during the Dark Age of Technology. A silicon species could very well have respiratory issues, but likely no more than a carbon species that breathes the same air but prefers a radically different chemical ratio.

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 05:31:07 pm

A funny thing is that although the human body reacts badly to living transplants, it actually reacts fairly well to cybernetics made with proper materials. Look up the results of Kevin Warwick's Project Cyborg experiments for more, but the short of it is that the nervous system and the brain both reacted with "sure, I guess" when hooked up to an electrode array controlling a machine. The Mechanicus may not be so far-fetched as you'd think...

Not that this helps us, unless this species gets the same kind of cybernetic adaptability.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The mere existence of Servitors on such a massive scale is more than enough evidence of that. I've always thought it's fascinating just how horrifying the Imperium is, not from an internal, human perspective which is already bad enough, but an external alien culture trying to come to terms with... well, everything.

Quote from: wierd on June 10, 2020, 05:37:29 pm

autochemotrophs are a thing.  They mostly live in the deep ocean in hot water vents that are filled with reduced sulfur compounds, but in an irradiated environment, a strong scouring UV source that breaks atomic bonds down (and thus produces energetic free radicals that can then be used for metabolic purposes) could enable a plethora of inorganic substances to be used as chemical energy sources.  It would mean that our biology would be very high-energy resistant, and thus would need pretty strongly chemically active materials to use as food. (Strong acids, highly reactive alkaline earth metals, corrosive gasses like chlorine, etc) that form very strong bonds, and have strong bond energies. (Otherwise the solar radiation would degrade our organism as well!)

I am thinking this:

Silicon based life that uses chlorine instead of oxygen. Perhaps with silicon tetrachloride + water reaction to produce silicon oxide and hydrochloric acid as waste product.  The water should be the result of internal chemistry from the decomposition of minerals, via UV radiation, in a process similar to photosynthesis. (in that a high energy radiation source is harnessed as an energy source to produce substances inside a lifeform. In this case, it is the harsh high energy particles and UV light from our star.) This would allow us to produce a silicondioxide exoskeleton, (or a complex of compound silicates to exploit chirality and crystal structures to create something both flexible and highly resistant to radiation, external sources of water, and mechanical attack)

This kind of metabolism would enable us to have a ready supply of "Highly deadly" waste we could employ against ordinary lifeforms. 

Since chlorine is so reactive, suggest we consume it in the form of rare-earth salts, and to have evolved to consume such salts in crystallized form, as well as adaptations (evolutionary) to consume strongly saline water (despite the toxicity of the water.)

Flavor description: Exoskeleton replete with microscopic ridges and structures between secreted silicate mineral crystal type boundaries, which capture and absorb high energy photons, and convert that energy directly into internal electrical potentials. (Photovoltaics, and the like.)  (see also, this article (https://www.laserfocusworld.com/test-measurement/research/article/16552715/nanospikes-add-new-functionality) about how adding these to silicon based photo cells improves their performance.) This would make our appearance very "Prismatic", similar to the "Structural colors" found in blue insects, or on peacock feathers.

Basically-- We eat salt, and rocks.  We exhale/urinate concentrated hydrochloric acid solution as a metabolic biproduct.  We utilize the rare-earth minerals and silicon compounds in the surrounding regolith, along with the ever-present high energy radiation from our star to perform this chemistry.  Our internals are liquid solutions suspended in silicon chloride solution. Water is theoretically toxic to us, but our exoskeletons prevent exposure from outside sources being harmful to us, and our digestive systems produce water in trace amounts as a biproduct, necessitating their resistance to it.  We do not respire in the normally conventional way; We expel a vapor/mist as a waste product, but do not inhale.  We metabolize some of the water our primary energy consumption mechanism produces to create silicon rubbers, and other flexible materials for our internal body structures. Our exoskeletons are thick, and ornate in appearance, with a shimmering prismatic quality, due to their use as both environmental protection and as an energy harvesting organ.  Nanostructures in the exoskeleton force lower energy photons to be re-emitted as higher energy ones, (shorter wavelengths) by acting as naturally occuring nanoscopic waveguides. To humans, our appearance is black and iridescent.   Our optical systems are adapted to use higher frequencies of light than humans. We utilize light in the ultraviolet and Xray spectra. We appear translucent to other members of our species.

Downside:  We *NEED* the high energy environment to survive.  Being naked in space poses little trouble to us aside from temperature and internal pressure regulation; we do not breathe, and the harsh, unfiltered radiation of a star is our food. Requirement of chloride minerals limits our ability to move to naked planetoids. (Without an atmosphere to help recycle those compounds via reaction with a local regolith, we would quickly run out of metabolic material and starve to death, despite being surrounded by otherwise edible rocks. HCl is a gas, and would escape into space without a suitably strong gravity well, and atmosphere.) As such, we still need "Biospheres", and space suits.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Because neither Oxygen or Exotic Atmosphere was chosen, I actually intended on having the species breathe chlorine, so I suppose the cat's out of the bag now. Everything you've detailed is not only brilliant but more than possible, assuming certain decisions in determining the specifics of the distant evolutionary ancestor and everything you determine during the progress that goes on from there. Regardless, should you come head-to-xenos equivalent, I strongly doubt Mars would find its atomics to be of much use. For a species that evolved in an environment most sapients would consider a Tomb World for the background... Your evolutionary descendants could likely get as inordinate in nuclear ordnance as they pleased.

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 10, 2020, 06:00:15 pm

So wait a moment the fungus Orks, the Skynet kill all organic robotic Necrons, and the Flood-knock off Nids (I simply jest 8) ) are all immune to Chaos because they don’t have any emotions and whatnot; so would it be possible to create a Silicion species that can’t feel or display any emotion besides pure calculating logical thinking result in them having the possibility of being immune or gaining a high level of resistance level to being corrupted?, that just seems to make the Rocky-bois the better pick imo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/9txkrz/because_chaos_can_corrupt_anything_with_emotion/

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

It would be possible to eschew emotion during the evolutionary process, but Chaos has a way of assimilating mechanical or even conventionally mindless things, as seen in many cases of AI and otherwise inanimate vehicles being overrun with daemonic taint. That could improve your resistance, to be sure, but so could driving society toward monasticism or leaning toward a mindset that doesn't fall under the purview of the Ruinous Powers. I'd say the Thyrrus (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thyrrus) are one such example, but... almost everything about them screams that they've fallen to the Lord of Excess or were never free to begin with to me. MetalSlimeHunt gave a very good explanation.

Quote from: Naturegirl1999 on June 10, 2020, 06:13:51 pm

Silicon entities might still produce chemicals analogous to hormones, thus giving the ability to feel emotions. (Hormones govern our emotions. To me, it wouldn't be farfetched for silicon based species to have similar processes)
On the note of emotions, why do animals on Terra have them? I'm a human and don't really know why we have them in the first place. Like, I know other animals have them too, My question is why emotions evolved in animals on Terra in the first place, and why they stayed.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Everyone else has ninja'd me with solid explanations, but I'll pitch in one of my own. In short, the biggest we, and almost every other animal capable of higher thought, have emotions is that they're extremely useful for autonomous decision-making and encouraging productive behaviour for the appropriate situation. Some examples are anger for self-defense, hunger for resource-finding, and terror for when it's best to run away as far and as fast as possible.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This all said, I'm going to give you a few more hours to decide between Carbon and Silicon, it's arguably exponentially more important than your Home-System's composition so I want to give you as much time as you need to consider it.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 10, 2020, 07:09:55 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner
Silicon (9): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass
Something Exotic (0):As a result of discussion, all aboard the silicon train.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 07:22:35 pm

I was thinking more on what humanity is going to inevitably bring on us and I realized another issue. The Emperor is out there. That means that even if we by some miracle beat them to the punch and find Earth before human expansion, we can't merk them. Emps will kill us all. The entire period of time Emps is alive, we can't beat humanity no matter how powerful we grow conventionally. And if we screw up the timeline badly enough Chaos will fail to create an avatar strong enough to kill Emps for us, and he will kill us all.

That's gonna be fun to deal with!

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 07:28:37 pm

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 07:22:35 pm

I was thinking more on what humanity is going to inevitably bring on us and I realized another issue. The Emperor is out there. That means that even if we by some miracle beat them to the punch and find Earth before human expansion, we can't merk them. Emps will kill us all. The entire period of time Emps is alive, we can't beat humanity no matter how powerful we grow conventionally. And if we screw up the timeline badly enough Chaos will fail to create an avatar strong enough to kill Emps for us, and he will kill us all.

That's gonna be fun to deal with!

Depends, how much does he require ships to get to orbit and how well can he survive a planet cracker of the sort that 40k throws around like bad candy on Halloween?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 07:37:08 pm

Let me put it this way: He probably teleported himself to Mars during the middle ages to fight and imprison the Void Dragon, who was one of the only C'Tan not shattered by the Necrons.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 07:42:26 pm

Hell, why not maybe try to bud it up with DAoT humanity instead of trying to jump in for the murder? Could be interesting.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 10, 2020, 07:47:01 pm

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 07:42:26 pm

Hell, why not maybe try to bud it up with DAoT humanity instead of trying to jump in for the murder? Could be interesting.

Exactly. Why do we need to be making humanity mad, when we can A. try to be not worth their time to fight or B. try to get them to actually not hate us?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Taricus on June 10, 2020, 08:00:03 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (9): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (9): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass
Something Exotic (0):
*Makes TIE fighter noises*

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 08:00:20 pm

Is there a time period where humanity isn't xenophobic and we could conceivably then befriend them?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Taricus on June 10, 2020, 08:04:10 pm

In a way that'd have us survive the great crusade or the tantrum after it? Nooooope.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 08:04:43 pm

Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology is real poorly defined so it might be possible. We can probably avoid the immediate murderlist, at least

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: frostgiant on June 10, 2020, 08:09:08 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (9): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (10): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass,Frostgiant
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Puppyguard on June 10, 2020, 09:44:53 pm

Code: [Select]

Carbon (9): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, Superdorf?, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (11): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass, Frostgiant, Puppyguard
Something Exotic (0):
Rocks sound cool.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Superdorf on June 10, 2020, 09:53:50 pm

I see which way the wind's blowing.

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (12): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass, Frostgiant, Puppyguard, Superdorf
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 10:54:11 pm

What a vote though, holy hell

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 10, 2020, 11:42:52 pm

The better option is to find some way to be of inextricable need to the EoM.  Say for instance, if we prevent the failure of his webway project, by providing some form of material (and maybe immaterial?) assistance for the project to prevent chaos from doing the nasty to it.  I am thinking some kind of "intrinsic", such as active mitigation of chaos manipulation of the project simply from our involvement. (If we are naturally chaos resistant, we might be able to assist in such a manner? The future would be PROFOUNDLY less grimdark if humanity has webway that actually works.)

(Otherwise, being carbon based is not going to make the imperium less likely to drop an exterminatus on our planet, so that is a moot point of contention at this point.  Just being a Xeno is more than enough.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 12:07:23 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 10, 2020, 07:22:35 pm

I was thinking more on what humanity is going to inevitably bring on us and I realized another issue. The Emperor is out there. That means that even if we by some miracle beat them to the punch and find Earth before human expansion, we can't merk them. Emps will kill us all. The entire period of time Emps is alive, we can't beat humanity no matter how powerful we grow conventionally. And if we screw up the timeline badly enough Chaos will fail to create an avatar strong enough to kill Emps for us, and he will kill us all.

That's gonna be fun to deal with!

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Don't forget the breakdown of Warp travel, and emergence of independent warlords, pocket empires (both human and xenos, including then not-so minor races and an abundance of Orkz), and slaving raiders prior to the Great Crusade, which was of an obscene scale before the Emperor found the Primarchs and it began in full. There is nothing saying humanity's expansion in the Great Crusade Era cannot be checked and countered, or even repulsed and driven back, but considering the intensity and outcome of the Rangdan Xenocides (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rangdan_Xenocides), it would be a hellacious undertaking. Fortunately, the Galactic South underwent the least of the Great Crusade and the species is in an Isolated Star System with a Lack of Warp Routes.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 07:28:37 pm

Depends, how much does he require ships to get to orbit and how well can he survive a planet cracker of the sort that 40k throws around like bad candy on Halloween?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The Emperor is... arguably beyond the psyker rating system. To give context to the scale, Malcador the Sigillite was able to telekinetically lift a fully-armoured Primarch with minimal effort and at one point, concealed Saturn's moon Titan in the Warp. He's considered only the third most powerful psyker among Mankind, the second being Magnus the Red, and the first the Emperor, by an enormous margin. That said, he is not unbeatable, but you would be hard-pressed to defeat him without a significant advantage in firepower and esoteric technology, and that's before getting into the massive fleet that accompanied him wherever he went during the time he was active.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 10, 2020, 08:00:20 pm

Is there a time period where humanity isn't xenophobic and we could conceivably then befriend them?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Humanity during the Dark Age of Technology was immeasurably less hostile to the galaxy at large, many xenos species coexisted with them in alleged prosperity. Then five millennia in the Age of Strife began, most of their former allies turned on them, and Homo Sapiens at large became opposed to the concept. Even so, there are numerous examples of human and xenos societies thriving well into the Great Crusade Era, though minimal known of after.

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 08:04:43 pm

Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology is real poorly defined so it might be possible. We can probably avoid the immediate murderlist, at least

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Nothing is graven into stone for the species at this point, and I will be keeping close track of the canonical timeline once you move into sapience, as I outlined previously (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176608.msg8150806#msg8150806), though I'm more than open to increasing/reducing the length of the 'turns' as requested or seems reasonable.

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 10, 2020, 10:54:11 pm

What a vote though, holy hell

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'm legitimately stunned that twenty people thought this thread was worth replying to, and I'll be doing all that I can to deliver.

Quote from: wierd on June 10, 2020, 11:42:52 pm

The better option is to find some way to be of inextricable need to the EoM.  Say for instance, if we prevent the failure of his webway project, by providing some form of material (and maybe immaterial?) assistance for the project to prevent chaos from doing the nasty to it.  I am thinking some kind of "intrinsic", such as active mitigation of chaos manipulation of the project simply from our involvement. (If we are naturally chaos resistant, we might be able to assist in such a manner? The future would be PROFOUNDLY less grimdark if humanity has webway that actually works.)

(Otherwise, being carbon based is not going to make the imperium less likely to drop an exterminatus on our planet, so that is a moot point of contention at this point.  Just being a Xeno is more than enough.)

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I've said it before but I'll say it again, originating from an Isolated Star System with a Lack of Warp Routes and a Thick Immaterial Veil in the Galactic South has its advantages.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 11, 2020, 04:14:52 am

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (13): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass, Frostgiant, Puppyguard, Superdorf, King Zultan
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Hotfire90 on June 11, 2020, 05:48:24 am

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (14): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass, Frostgiant, Puppyguard, Superdorf, King Zultan, Hotfire
Something Exotic (0):

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 09:29:45 am

Code: [Select]

Carbon (8): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, mightymushroom, Kashyyk, MrThrowaway, IronyOwl, Powder Miner, Taricus
Silicon (14): NG, IncompetentFortressMaker, Madman, TL, SC777, Kilojoule Proton, 0cra, Chaoskl21, Glass, Frostgiant, Puppyguard, Superdorf, King Zultan, Hotfire
Something Exotic (0):
Brought low by the crushing weight of the world, so scourged by radiation under the merciless alien sky, is it any wonder that when life arose, it did so in a manner and composition utterly alien? Many are the wise ones who would judge the microscopic salt-feeders as a local anomaly, their crystalline cell-walls an exotic but not unusual adaption... There are that many more who, examining closer, would be struck dumb, trembling and sputtering into their instruments to deem that which they saw impossible. Not a single example of this jagged world's nascent life would care, and not in the least for their current lack of a consciousness. How hubristic would they be, to insist that they subordinate themselves to the worn and weathered conventions of the countless carbon-choked biospheres thousands of light-years away? Here, things were different, and so it was they would be done.

Not subsisting on chains and strands of carbon but spools and whorls of silicon, the evolution of life spurned the path countless millions of phyla were fated to trod in favor of carving out another of their own, through impossible resilience and still-greater persistence. In and of themselves, they approached existence from a fundamentally alien foundation, one which would provide a texture and context for everything that was to follow. Slowly, stubbornly continuing to multiply despite the cosmic glare that would see them torn apart at their basest parts, the microbes of the eastern ocean trudged on in surging determination. Eventually they came to fill the waters of the cavern systems and from there, in a mere hundred millennium, not a single body of water could claim to be absent of their reach. With denser population came fiercer competition, pressure that cast countless dead-ends by the wayside, scorned and forgotten for their insufficiency, and allowed a handful of ideal and fortunate examples of what it was to be silicon perpetuate themselves and in doing so, demonstrate their primacy.

The emergence of macro-cellular life was an inevitability, blind and shuddering in the darkest depths beneath the surface, it soon died, but set a precedent that would be filled, again and again ad infinitum until one instance stuck. So it was that the skewed priorities of an alien ecosystem became readily apparent, in a visage unthinkable to farflung Terra or perhaps, eerie in superficial simplicity. Held aside the particles establishing what the core tenets of structure mean, something as raw and crude as shape alone is minor indeed, but perhaps most striking to bear witness to. Nothing so lofty as the minute distinction between mammalia and reptilia on Terra, this is elementary and will doubtless determines the countenance of myriad life-forms to come.

What form of symmetry do the vast majority or failing that, the entirety of life-forms on this world adhere to?

Unset Symmetry: The concept of a set "pattern" to life is alien and inimical to the creatures here, whether they take on the shape of a sprawling mass of tumorous vessels, writhing tendrils reaching for succor, or something yet stranger, there is not the faintest vestige of symmetry to be found in their physicality. Perhaps more frail than robust alternatives, their unspeakable bodies may yield an advantage in the distant future.
Tubular Symmetry: Rejecting the duality of Terra, life here takes on a circular ring shape reminiscent of the basis of their biochemical reactions, then branches outward, to take on the shape of singular, rounded tubes of varying size and adaption. Make no mistake, their simplicity belies alien instinct wrought by ancient history, and any who have seen the serpents of Terra in action can attest to the efficiency of such of a body-plan.
Paired Symmetry: Akin to Mankind, the Aeldari, and the Orkoidz among others, there is no guarantee they adhere to the same physical frame or preconceptions of life, but they share a commonality in the fact that the life-forms here can be counted on to have two near-identical sides, each arrayed in a distinct and rarely broken synthesis with one another. Extraordinarily common, binate architecture is arguably the default assumption of life in the galaxy.
Triune Symmetry: Bizarre in complexity but far from impossible, for one reason or another, life here has evolved to take on a three-sided body-plan, as though they were an assortment of living triangles, tripods, or something yet stranger. Such an intricate series of angles require more sustenance to support themselves than others might, but their descendants will be unquestionably inured to the rigors of multitasking and difficult to surprise.
Further Symmetry: Truly unthinkable, more than possibly unrecognizable as alive to Terran eyes before it begins to move, the life-forms here cleave to a symmetry that goes beyond a paltry three, boasting a staggering four or more sides, each near the same and feeding into the other. A wide variety of shapes are available for such, from lofty polygons and lowly cubes, to the transcendence of sides entirely in claimance of a spheroid shape. (Specify How Many Sides)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
Home-System Traits:
- Isolated Star System
- Thick Immaterial Veil
- Frequent Meteorites
- Lack of Warp Routes
Home-World Traits:
- Cavern Networks
- Mineral Abundance
- Ideal Atmosphere

Spoiler:  The Home-World's Biosphere (click to show/hide)

Respiratory Gas: Chlorine
Dominant Symmetry: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 09:41:04 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (0):
Paired Symmetry (0):
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):

GLORY TO THE TRI-ANGLE, MOST PERFECT OF SHAPES! SKREEEEEEEEEEEE!

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 09:50:34 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (0):
Paired Symmetry (0):
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 09:51:27 am

Further symmetry.

Silicon compounds tend to form arrangements based on trigonal-pyramidial base units. Evolutionary exploitation of this arrangment can produce consistent breaks in crystalline blandness, and give rise to the kinds of structures I suggested previously. (Such as exploitation of different chiral "handedness" of such structures), allowing for ornate and interesting morphologies. (See for instance, the stunning degree of variation found in diatom shells (https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aabba47722baa923ed7c01b0641cb8f1), which are made from biochemically secreted silicon compounds.)

Early life may have a preference for trigonal symmetry, with a bilateral secondary symmetry (such as diatom shell, which has trigonal symmetry for each half of the shell, which is bilaterally symmetrical with the other side of the shell, in most cases) but advanced life may favor trigonal "plates" in any number of configurations. 

Symmetry is probably radial, but bilateral is possible too. 

I will go full on imagination orgasm here-- let me dig out some pencils.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Taricus on June 11, 2020, 09:53:58 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (0):
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 10:14:11 am

Screw it, I will just try my best to explain.

Consider a 6 legged starfish like creature.  In actuality, it has 3 legs, and 3 arms.  The ventral (lower) section of the creature has 6 roughly triangular plates that converge to a blunted point that points downward. The plates extend outward, away from the body, and up at an approximately 50 degree upward slant. These structures give rise to the arms, which are articulated and terminate in 3 bladed "fingers" at the end of each extremity.  A similar construction exists on the dorsal (upper) section, descending downward at the same 50ish degree slant, forming articulated legs terminating in 3, triangular toes on each foot.  (Visual aid-- consider a cylon base ship (https://fantastic-plastic.com/ImperialBaseStarPlanView.jpg).  Now consider that the lower section's extending "arms" angle upwards at ~50 degrees, and the upper section's arms angle downwards the same amount. Instead of being smooth on the top and bottom, the arm structures form apical points. Each arm section is comprised of 2 roughly triangular plates with a central seam.)

The fissures of the ventral section contain orifices for ingesting well weathered clay silicate mineral and crystalline salt, as well as ducts for expelling high concentration hydrochloric acid, which is stored in 12 chambers, 2 along the length of each extremity. 

The dorsal section is much more robust and ornate then the ventral section, and contains highly exagerated plates with thick and heavy ridges, which extend nearly straight up, similar to the prominence of a rose thorn (https://previews.123rf.com/images/rtbilder/rtbilder1107/rtbilder110700058/9991204-close-up-of-rose-thorn-over-white-background.jpg). These structures contain the photosynthetic organs for the organism, and are also used for thermal regulation. The prominence is comprised of interlocking plates that can be deployed like a 3 petaled flower, and oriented toward light or other high energy particle radiation sources.  Structures for the capture of beta particles (high energy electrons), and high energy photons are present in this organ assemblage, and connect with a convoluted looking organ containing many small sacks of concentrated mineral solutions dissolved in the silicon tetrachloride solvent. These function as a charge differential based electro-chemical battery (https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Analytical_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_(Analytical_Chemistry)/Electrochemistry/Voltaic_Cells/Electrochemical_Cells_under_Nonstandard_Conditions/Concentration_Cell).  The stored electrical charges are used to power the other cellular activities of the organism with electrochemistry, utilizing organic semiconductor networks to distribute the collected energy potentials.

Each radial section contains 2 eyes, and 3 chemical sensory organs.

The organism has a circulatory network, but lacks a dedicated pulminary organ.  Instead, the electrical energy potentials generated through photovoltaic energy harvest are used with semiconductor nanostructures heavily distributed through the capilliary network to propel the solution (and dissolved minerals) via electrohydrodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydrodynamics).  Every portion of the organism's "soft inner body" thus functions as one giant heart, propelling the fluid around in a continuous circulated current.

Ruptures in the tissue result in a runaway reaction with atmospheric water vapor, releasing hydrochloric acid, and rapidly depositing silicon dioxide, which plugs the rupture, until the organism can properly regenerate the damaged tissue.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: chaotick21 on June 11, 2020, 10:18:24 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):
Tubular dude

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 10:40:42 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (1): Wierd


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 10:48:59 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (2): Weird, Madman

I'm not going to try and describe the symmetry you just explained, so if you would please add that description to this vote, wierd?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 10:58:07 am

Yeah, that is what was intended; Further symmetry, with the prior long winded explanation.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 11:16:18 am

No but in the vote you need to (in short form, hopefully) explain the symmetry, since there's more than one possible version of "further" symmetry.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 11:23:38 am

Ooohhh kay....

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (2): Weird (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral), Madman


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 11:32:34 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral) (2): Weird, Madman

I am only suggesting you do as the GM said :P

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: piratejoe on June 11, 2020, 11:35:21 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral) (3): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 11:46:02 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (4): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 11:50:54 am

Quote from: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 09:41:04 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (0):
Paired Symmetry (0):
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):

GLORY TO THE TRI-ANGLE, MOST PERFECT OF SHAPES! SKREEEEEEEEEEEE!

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Forget species supremacy, shape supremacy is where it's at.

Quote from: wierd on June 11, 2020, 09:51:27 am

Further symmetry.

Silicon compounds tend to form arrangements based on trigonal-pyramidial base units. Evolutionary exploitation of this arrangment can produce consistent breaks in crystalline blandness, and give rise to the kinds of structures I suggested previously. (Such as exploitation of different chiral "handedness" of such structures), allowing for ornate and interesting morphologies. (See for instance, the stunning degree of variation found in diatom shells (https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-aabba47722baa923ed7c01b0641cb8f1), which are made from biochemically secreted silicon compounds.)

Early life may have a preference for trigonal symmetry, with a bilateral secondary symmetry (such as diatom shell, which has trigonal symmetry for each half of the shell, which is bilaterally symmetrical with the other side of the shell, in most cases) but advanced life may favor trigonal "plates" in any number of configurations. 

Symmetry is probably radial, but bilateral is possible too. 

I will go full on imagination orgasm here-- let me dig out some pencils.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Quite intriguing, what's more is that it's readily plausible for a silicon foundation under searing radioactive conditions.

Quote from: wierd on June 11, 2020, 10:14:11 am

Screw it, I will just try my best to explain.

Consider a 6 legged starfish like creature.  In actuality, it has 3 legs, and 3 arms.  The ventral (lower) section of the creature has 6 roughly triangular plates that converge to a blunted point that points downward. The plates extend outward, away from the body, and up at an approximately 50 degree upward slant. These structures give rise to the arms, which are articulated and terminate in 3 bladed "fingers" at the end of each extremity.  A similar construction exists on the dorsal (upper) section, descending downward at the same 50ish degree slant, forming articulated legs terminating in 3, triangular toes on each foot.  (Visual aid-- consider a cylon base ship (https://fantastic-plastic.com/ImperialBaseStarPlanView.jpg).  Now consider that the lower section's extending "arms" angle upwards at ~50 degrees, and the upper section's arms angle downwards the same amount. Instead of being smooth on the top and bottom, the arm structures form apical points. Each arm section is comprised of 2 roughly triangular plates with a central seam.)

The fissures of the ventral section contain orifices for ingesting well weathered clay silicate mineral and crystalline salt, as well as ducts for expelling high concentration hydrochloric acid, which is stored in 12 chambers, 2 along the length of each extremity. 

The dorsal section is much more robust and ornate then the ventral section, and contains highly exagerated plates with thick and heavy ridges, which extend nearly straight up, similar to the prominence of a rose thorn (https://previews.123rf.com/images/rtbilder/rtbilder1107/rtbilder110700058/9991204-close-up-of-rose-thorn-over-white-background.jpg). These structures contain the photosynthetic organs for the organism, and are also used for thermal regulation. The prominence is comprised of interlocking plates that can be deployed like a 3 petaled flower, and oriented toward light or other high energy particle radiation sources.  Structures for the capture of beta particles (high energy electrons), and high energy photons are present in this organ assemblage, and connect with a convoluted looking organ containing many small sacks of concentrated mineral solutions dissolved in the silicon tetrachloride solvent. These function as a charge differential based electro-chemical battery (https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Analytical_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_(Analytical_Chemistry)/Electrochemistry/Voltaic_Cells/Electrochemical_Cells_under_Nonstandard_Conditions/Concentration_Cell).  The stored electrical charges are used to power the other cellular activities of the organism with electrochemistry, utilizing organic semiconductor networks to distribute the collected energy potentials.

Each radial section contains 2 eyes, and 3 chemical sensory organs.

The organism has a circulatory network, but lacks a dedicated pulminary organ.  Instead, the electrical energy potentials generated through photovoltaic energy harvest are used with semiconductor nanostructures heavily distributed through the capilliary network to propel the solution (and dissolved minerals) via electrohydrodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrohydrodynamics).  Every portion of the organism's "soft inner body" thus functions as one giant heart, propelling the fluid around in a continuous circulated current.

Ruptures in the tissue result in a runaway reaction with atmospheric water vapor, releasing hydrochloric acid, and rapidly depositing silicon dioxide, which plugs the rupture, until the organism can properly regenerate the damaged tissue.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This is a very much an achievable end result, especially when the background radiation is taken into account. You'll be starting off with a distant, largely undeveloped evolutionary ancestor in accordance to the "templates" you decide on, but there's nothing preventing life-forms from trending toward trigonal-sixty degree radial symmetry, although early iterations aren't going to be anywhere near as sophisticated as the structure eons of (guided) evolution can devise. The circulatory system in particular is fascinating.

Quote from: Chaoskl21 on June 11, 2020, 10:18:24 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (0):
Tubular dude

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Radical. There's a lot that can be done in a tubular framework, not to mention how well such a structure might do in zero-gravity and aquatic environs compared to the four-limbed biped bodyplan that's popular in many of the galaxy's species.

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 11:32:34 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral) (2): Weird, Madman

I am only suggesting you do as the GM said :P

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

The current explanation is more than fine, I think, no reason to abbreviate a complex concept any further than it has to be.

Quote from: Glass on June 11, 2020, 11:46:02 am

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (4): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass


Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

This works too. Really interesting schematics everyone, I was curious to see what format you'd all decide on, but wasn't expecting something so exotic from the start of things. I mean that in the best way of course.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 11, 2020, 12:38:01 pm

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (5): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker
Also, wierd, are you a biologist?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 11, 2020, 12:39:03 pm

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (1): NG
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (4): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, Kilojoule Proton


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 12:42:26 pm

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0)
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry (3): Weird, Madman, NG
Thinking about it further, having no symmetry would make it difficult to control where different reactions take place and what reactions take place

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 12:53:07 pm

Q: Are all 'psionics' in this setting strictly related to warp phenomena?

I want to propose a mixed scenario, in which there is a mobile larval stage similar to wierd's plan, that during "mating" – between 3 units to start with, can evolve more and bigger configurations later if competition allows – the mating ritual forms physical bonds between units, cementing them together into a tube. Take the stronger, tougher dorsal layer of wierd's plan as the foundation for an outer shell while the delicate manipulators of the ventral section end up on the inside. This 'adult form' would have the combined neural capacity and memories of all participants, enabling it to be "smarter" than individual larvae. It thus has the capacity to use the now-internal manipulators for complex tasks no larva could perform alone.

Back to the psychic question: the adult's increase in capability comes at cost of mobility now that all the former legs are stuck in one mass. (I expect some creatures will evolve to leave the tips free for active defense, but then they are pointing every which way and the ones in contact with the ground/seafloor cannot shift the whole quickly.) It would be handy if these adults eventually find a means of communication with their more mobile youth. To ensure they get a steady food supply delivered, for instance.

If straight psionics are out something else could still substitute. Perhaps our electro-silicon tubes are covered in natural LEDs to flash messages. Or pheromones if you want to be boring.

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom
P.S. Also tried to recalibrate votes since so many came up while working. Apologies if I got yours wrong.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 01:00:29 pm

Keep in mind that our lifeform evolved in a thick veil area, and this is GOOD.

Being a psyker lets you hurl shit around, but it also makes you into enslaver food (https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Enslavers).


It also means that if we develop FTL travel, ours will be PURELY technological, meaning it does not require going through the warp. (though it might be that we stumble on an arm of the webway, and reverse engineer creating a wormhole network of our own. again through purely technological means.)

"are you a biologist?"

No, just something that passes for a polymath these days. (It is impossible to be a true polymath in this era; the state of the art progresses to rapidly in any given field to stay current in ONE, let alone multiple disciplines.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 01:04:09 pm

Well, that's my question I guess. We are obviously not standard psykers due to our home location. The question is, is there something different in basis yet similar in effect we can do for communication?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of LED shells. Even if my idea doesn't win, can we incorporate this later? Imagine the rave scene this world has.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 01:09:28 pm

We eat high energy particle radiation.

It is entirely possible we could use radio frequency communication, symbolic gesture communication, optical communication, chemical communication, or any number of other mechanisms.

I rather like radio communication.  It would have some "fun" implications when/if we encounter other sentient races, since our conversations would cause communication interference. :)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 11, 2020, 01:12:44 pm

Quote from: wierd on June 11, 2020, 01:00:29 pm

It also means that if we develop FTL travel, ours will be PURELY technological, meaning it does not require going through the warp. (though it might be that we stumble on an arm of the webway, and reverse engineer creating a wormhole network of our own. again through purely technological means.)

Which isn't necessarily a good thing, since it would likely either be slower or take a lot more resources dedicated to our exotic FTL.

I am going to vote for boring triangles.

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (2): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 01:17:04 pm

Even the backwards Imperium has teleportation, right? Because it's quite simple to manipulate that into a more-than-fast-enough FTL system, depending on its limitations.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 01:18:46 pm

The issue is that "teleportation" is just short-range Warp travel. That's how most of the galaxy's vessels function, and it can be just as dangerous too. The Necrons appear to have an alternate form of teleportation, but nobody knows how it works.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 01:30:55 pm

Huh, I thought it was separate and instantaneous. Oh well, maybe we can technology our way out of that.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 01:39:12 pm

It may appear instantaneous or nearly-so, as long as you're imposing that kind of condition on the Warp where time need not pass. But any exposure carries some risk of warp predators noticing you, and the longer the distance the worse it will be and the more "actual time" you'll have to spend in the Warp. And of course, there's always an even rarer but real risk that you'll teleport backwards in time.

Whatever the Necrons are doing appears to use a different manipulation of reality or realities, but replicating their tech is unlikely to say the least.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 01:55:06 pm

...just curious, given silicon, what would the Necrons (and Tyranids, for that matter) actually think of us?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 02:08:27 pm

The Necrons aren't specifically against organic life (well, non-machine life, we're technically not under the word organic) - they were organic life. They just hate everyone that's not them due to their treatment at the hands of the C'Tan and their belief that the galaxy belongs to them alone. The saner Necron Lords can be surprisingly reasonable, but most of them have some kind of mental damage and the vast majority of their population are mindless automatons now. We aren't likely to be friends.

The Nids have scoured galaxies, so they've probably encountered silicon life and worked on ways it could be adapted to them. Regardless, even if we're not biologically compatible the energy in our chemistry will still be fair game for combating entropy - Nids eat worlds down to the bedrock.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 02:14:06 pm

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 12:53:07 pm

Q: Are all 'psionics' in this setting strictly related to warp phenomena?

I want to propose a mixed scenario, in which there is a mobile larval stage similar to wierd's plan, that during "mating" – between 3 units to start with, can evolve more and bigger configurations later if competition allows – the mating ritual forms physical bonds between units, cementing them together into a tube. Take the stronger, tougher dorsal layer of wierd's plan as the foundation for an outer shell while the delicate manipulators of the ventral section end up on the inside. This 'adult form' would have the combined neural capacity and memories of all participants, enabling it to be "smarter" than individual larvae. It thus has the capacity to use the now-internal manipulators for complex tasks no larva could perform alone.

Back to the psychic question: the adult's increase in capability comes at cost of mobility now that all the former legs are stuck in one mass. (I expect some creatures will evolve to leave the tips free for active defense, but then they are pointing every which way and the ones in contact with the ground/seafloor cannot shift the whole quickly.) It would be handy if these adults eventually find a means of communication with their more mobile youth. To ensure they get a steady food supply delivered, for instance.

If straight psionics are out something else could still substitute. Perhaps our electro-silicon tubes are covered in natural LEDs to flash messages. Or pheromones if you want to be boring.

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (1): MetalSlimeHunt
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom
P.S. Also tried to recalibrate votes since so many came up while working. Apologies if I got yours wrong.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

A: Psychic phenomena entails to essentially overlaying the Immaterium on physical reality and controlling what happens through force of will. Anyone that can do it consistently is a "pysker", and species have a varying level of psychic potential. Some, such as the Eldar, are invariably powerful psykers, so much so that much of their technology depends on it, some have limited psychic potential but individuals who are capable of matching or even surpassing more attuned species, such as Mankind, and a few, due to the circumstances of their evolution or pecularities individual to that species, have no psychic potential at all and must make do with material means, such as the Tau and ultimately, your species. The Q'Orl (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Q%27orl) are notable in that they don't have psychic potential, but are able to traverse the Warp and maintain an empire bsubjugating the psykers of other species.

Reality warping is almost entirely Warp-affiliated, though the C'tan (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C%27tan) were able to do so through means that bore no relation to the Warp and the Necrons (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron) possessed technology that was capable of not only replicating their feats, but shattering and binding them into fractions of their former selves. Barring extreme technological advancement, this sort of pseudo-psychic phenomena is beyond the grasp of your appendages. Even so, as wierd and the Terran biosphere demonstrate, there is a massive amount that can be done without deviating from the material. Determining the biosphere's prevalent form of reproduction is going to be the next question and that kind of age-stratified dichotomy is more than possible. Anything that isn't outright supernatural in on the table for communication purposes, LEDs aren't only a novel idea, they're more than doable from silicon. Other possibilities are the exchange of electric pulses, vibrating at specific frequencies, or as already mentioned, even radio.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 11, 2020, 01:12:44 pm

Quote from: wierd on June 11, 2020, 01:00:29 pm

It also means that if we develop FTL travel, ours will be PURELY technological, meaning it does not require going through the warp. (though it might be that we stumble on an arm of the webway, and reverse engineer creating a wormhole network of our own. again through purely technological means.)

Which isn't necessarily a good thing, since it would likely either be slower or take a lot more resources dedicated to our exotic FTL.

I am going to vote for boring triangles.

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (2): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom


Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

I'll have you know triangles are magnificent. Perhaps not radical or tubular, but they have a distinctly sharp appeal.

Quote from: Glass on June 11, 2020, 01:55:06 pm

...just curious, given silicon, what would the Necrons (and Tyranids, for that matter) actually think of us?

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That massively depends on what sort of species evolution leads you to become, but relations are unlikely to be amicable.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 11, 2020, 02:29:05 pm

Yep. Nids eat “everything” of value. Air and rocks included.

I am not voting this time though I had an idea for us to look Anthropodish/buggy ( no, Nids are a mix of dinosaur and bug. Not true bug) but crystal shapes is cool.

As for super powers given we absorb particle radiation, it makes us Godzilla, or even Magneto powers ( Magnetism and radiation have a relationship, plus Legion the rock bug from Gamera killed things with electro magnetic waves.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 11, 2020, 02:32:39 pm

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, SC777
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 03:16:41 pm

Code: [Select]

Unset Symmetry (0):
Tubular Symmetry (1): Chaoskl21
Paired Symmetry (1): Taricus
Triune Symmetry (3): MetalSlimeHunt, Nirur, SC777
Further Symmetry  (Trigonal-60deg radial, truncated bilateral, "Weird's Symmetry") (7): Weird, Madman, Piratejoe, Glass, IncompetentFortressMaker, Kilojoule Proton, NG
Mixed Life Cycle – wierd's symmetry -> Tubular (1): mightymushroom
On a planet with seas so teeming with unseen vigor, the emergence of life that insisted on a gargantuan immensity visible to bare optics was no more avoidable than the dwindling of the stars above in the epochs to come. Floating in the midst of the seas, above abyssal pressure yet below the hateful sun, the first viable macro-organism was a weak and anemic thing no larger than a man's fingernail, whose arrival was met with no fanfare save the rippling disturbance its flailing stubs dealt. Pathetic and beneath the notice of the dull crimson blaze above, it was a peculiar cluster of primitive cells, clinging to no weary dictum of what life should be and accepting none. Already abominable for its silicon composition alone, it further confounded reason with the assumption of a sleek trigonal shape, and shattered it with the emergence of six vestigial limbs, each jutting from the crystalline, almost chitinous surface at angles a small mind would deem incapable, but nonetheless proved sufficient to tread in concert with the shifting tides. Bobbing to and fro, it lacked a consciousness capable of more than intuiting the need to fill the gurgling slits between its appendages with the salt of its forebears, and blindly, clumsily pursuing it to the furthest extent of its feeble ability.

This entity, harshly limited by the crude state of the same apparatus that distinguished it from its unseen ancestors, which it could neither call on reason or emotion to think and condemn, squirmed in paroxysm of wet birth, scraped in callous darkness, and struggled in tenacious pursuit of continual existence. Less than a single Terran month after its emergence, its brittle exoskeleton was punctured on a rock when the churning waves ruptured its carapace and its existence came to an end not two minutes later, dully unable to process the damage it underwent and grasping for escape. None would know of its fate and it died forgotten, but its legacy remained, in the handful of near-identical copies its messy and unrefined method of reproduction allowed. Thoughtlessly clinging to the same example, these descendants continued the course and boasting the semi-functional body their competitors lacked, soon spread throughout the oceans of the world. With growing distance and finite resources came competition, and in its wake, the onset of natural selection. Generations later, parts of the population began to change.

When the initial bout was finished, what method of reproduction was enshrined in the dominant majority of future species?

Fission: The simplicity of mitosis brought to a grand scale, reproduction occurs when a grown individual accumulates the resources to split into two smaller, roughly equal replicas of itself.
Fragmentation: Nowhere near as tidy as mitosis, reproduction occurs when a grown individual accumulates the resources to split and is instead shattered into several pieces, which then struggle to grow.
Budding: Lacking implicit lethality toward the parent, reproduction occurs when a grown individual accumulates resources to foster the growth of a younger copy directly on itself, which later breaks away.
Sexual: Driving a divide between members of the species, or not, depending, reproduction occurs when a grown individual exchanges genetic material with another, though the particulars of how that happens and what emerges afterward may vary. (Complications Require Further Questions)
Exotic: Challenging to genuinely comprehend, the species clings to no Terran method of reproduction and instead perpetuates their genetic material through a process that's more than likely found on no other biosphere, with flaws and advantages unique to it alone. (Specify the Details)

Spoiler:  The Home System (click to show/hide)

Location: The Galactic South
Sun's Radiation: Harsh
Home-World's distance from Sun: Middling
Home-World's Size: Large
Home-World's Topology: Jagged
Home-World's Number of Moons: One
Home-System Traits:
- Isolated Star System
- Thick Immaterial Veil
- Frequent Meteorites
- Lack of Warp Routes
Home-World Traits:
- Cavern Networks
- Mineral Abundance
- Ideal Atmosphere

Spoiler:  The Home-World's Biosphere (click to show/hide)

Respiratory Gas: Chlorine
Dominant Symmetry: Trigonal Radial, Truncated Bilateral
Dominant Method of Reproduction: To be determined

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 03:22:01 pm

...hmn...
Exotic, construction. Every so often, their bodies will start to produce a "core" and they will be driven to build a small facsimile of themselves with appropriate materials, into which the core will be inserted. The core and construction fuse, producing a new specimen.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 03:27:47 pm

Budding

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 04:00:23 pm

Gonna finally stop sleeping on this with a suggestion:

Exotic: Shedding

These strange entities reproduce by “shedding”, a process in which the interior body of the creature forces a crack in it’s exoskeleton and pushes it’s way through. Once the shell is vacated, the exterior of the newborn begins to harden. The vacant shell also begins a progress of regeneration, refilling the exoskeleton with those important insides and allowing it to birth another life at a later time.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 11, 2020, 04:10:25 pm

I don’t see how those two are different compared to Budding, just adding intricate detail into how it is done and the sementics.

Budding

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 04:30:45 pm

This is Bay12, if people aren’t arguing about semantics are you even playing a forum game?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 04:32:18 pm

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on June 11, 2020, 04:10:25 pm

I don’t see how those two are different compared to Budding, just adding intricate detail into how it is done and the sementics.

But intricate details are the entire point!
And besides my proposal makes life here literally robots

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 11, 2020, 04:34:40 pm

Heesh, I think the robotic idea is neat and it goes along the same principles as Budding by not making weakening the original “specimen”, as it can be so I will change my vote to...

Construction

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 04:42:59 pm

Yeah sure, robots.

But imagine how *fukkin weird* it would be to see what a species that sheds like that evolves into on a cultural level.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 11, 2020, 04:45:05 pm

I think we could get fission or budding to get a species that naturally transfers its knowledge to its offspring, which might help with multi-disciplinarian scientists and keeping us from losing knowledge like the Imperium does.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 11, 2020, 04:47:29 pm

 Budding.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 11, 2020, 04:47:46 pm

I don’t think the whole robotic idea really appeals to me, actually — I think I would much rather explore silicoid life as silicoid life, rather than making the silicon-robots connection.
Fragmentation

I enjoy the thought of these little rock things just deadass exploding, though I’ll probably change my vote if it’s not a competitive choice.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 04:51:19 pm

Quote from: Nirur Torir on June 11, 2020, 04:45:05 pm

I think we could get fission or budding to get a species that naturally transfers its knowledge to its offspring, which might help with multi-disciplinarian scientists and keeping us from losing knowledge like the Imperium does.

I think that we could potentially also get my cores to do that, not to mention the possibility of these guys - once they become sapient - starting to literally design their offspring for certain purposes. Imagine, if you would, a spaceship being build to hold a core.

Anyway, votebox!

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (2) NG, TL
Sexual (0)
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (1) MoP

Quote from: Powder Miner on June 11, 2020, 04:47:46 pm

I don’t think the whole robotic idea really appeals to me, actually — I think I would much rather explore silicoid life as silicoid life, rather than making the silicon-robots connection.

Fair enough.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 05:05:33 pm

A construction-like idea that's a little less like glorified budding and more "organic" than robots: a specialized organ is extended into the salt- and mineral-laden water surrounding the organism. This organ accretes and orders the initial ingredients for a new life by deposition. (Thus the "core" is not grown directly from the parent's cells.) The organ's chemically convoluted exterior acts like DNA/RNA writ many times over, transcribing a genetic analogue into the child organism's cell structure. As the child shudders into life, it begins to feed itself and grow out its limbs. At some point in development the parent's umbilicus is retracted shed eaten and the child is an independent creature.

Relying as it does on partly re-enacting the original formation of silicon-chlorine cells in a rich ocean medium, this presents obvious complications for colonizing land or barren waters. The next step – if I'm not getting ahead by introducing complications – is to enclose the process within a "womb" that the parent can seed with necessary ingredients.

When and if technology catches up, it will have interesting implications for the ethics of cloning and gene manipulation. After all, every one is both an ex nihilo creation and a copy of its forbears (but not necessarily a perfect copy).

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (2) NG, TL
Sexual (0)
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (1) MoP
Exotic (Accretion) (1) mightymushroom


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 05:07:31 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (3) NG, TL, MetalSlimeHunt
Sexual (0)
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (1) MoP
Exotic (Accretion) (1) mightymushroom


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 11, 2020, 05:14:29 pm

Code: (Reproduction method for species) [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (3) NG, TL, MetalSlimeHunt
Sexual (0)
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (2) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker
Exotic (Accretion) (1) mightymushroom


Quote from: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 04:30:45 pm

This is Bay12, if people aren’t arguing about semantics are you even playing a forum game?

True that. All too true.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 05:53:59 pm

OK, so, remember that any means of reproduction that *doesn't* combine DNA/an equivalent is going to naturally be less diverse, more prone to speciation (may or may not be a terrible problem, but still), and slower to evolve.

So far, "construction" is interesting but is a little too...tailored for exploitation? I think it'd make more sense if "animals" on our planet tend to be made of a core "alive" and squishy component and a surrounding harder shell that is not necessary "dead" but not as "alive" as the core, if that makes sense. Manipulative bits and all would be various bits of the "shell"; basically the core would be the most basic possible unit of life for any of these species. Loss of the various organs and manipulators and armor that builds up in the outer shell would hurt the creature, but wouldn't be capable of killing it because the core can always sustain itself. Less-intelligent species are made of almost completely identical individuals since they are only capable of replicating an external body plan in their instructions, as life gets more intelligent individuals start to be able to alter their external body plan (quite literally a body plan, as in "blueprints", encoded in our equivalent of genetics) to suit themselves. The more intelligent, the more alterations they can conceive of and build.

Individuals would start with just a core and thus be vulnerable when young, but capable of rapidly beginning to build the shell around themselves. Plant equivalents would perhaps just be immobile forms that often prefer a more defense-oriented shell layer rather than one capable of movement and whatnot?

This core either needs to be produced by more than two individuals, inherit the memories of the individual that produced it (thus technically making our entire biosphere basically immortal by most considerations, I think?), or be capable of doing the thing proposed previously where young individuals group up to make larger more capable ones with more diversity.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Screech9791 on June 11, 2020, 06:06:17 pm

I feel like we can drop the 40k part of the title until after our civilization starts researching FTL travel, since it's more or less "an evolving pre-sapient alien race is you" right now.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 06:25:55 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 05:53:59 pm

OK, so, remember that any means of reproduction that *doesn't* combine DNA/an equivalent is going to naturally be less diverse, more prone to speciation (may or may not be a terrible problem, but still), and slower to evolve.

So far, "construction" is interesting but is a little too...tailored for exploitation? I think it'd make more sense if "animals" on our planet tend to be made of a core "alive" and squishy component and a surrounding harder shell that is not necessary "dead" but not as "alive" as the core, if that makes sense. Manipulative bits and all would be various bits of the "shell"; basically the core would be the most basic possible unit of life for any of these species. Loss of the various organs and manipulators and armor that builds up in the outer shell would hurt the creature, but wouldn't be capable of killing it because the core can always sustain itself. Less-intelligent species are made of almost completely identical individuals since they are only capable of replicating an external body plan in their instructions, as life gets more intelligent individuals start to be able to alter their external body plan (quite literally a body plan, as in "blueprints", encoded in our equivalent of genetics) to suit themselves. The more intelligent, the more alterations they can conceive of and build.

Individuals would start with just a core and thus be vulnerable when young, but capable of rapidly beginning to build the shell around themselves. Plant equivalents would perhaps just be immobile forms that often prefer a more defense-oriented shell layer rather than one capable of movement and whatnot?

This core either needs to be produced by more than two individuals, inherit the memories of the individual that produced it (thus technically making our entire biosphere basically immortal by most considerations, I think?), or be capable of doing the thing proposed previously where young individuals group up to make larger more capable ones with more diversity.

I like this. Give it a name and I'll put it in the votebox and vote for it.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on June 11, 2020, 06:39:48 pm

Madman's point about the superiority of sexual reproduction convinces me. It's categorically better and essential for genetic recombination to occur for us to get a top-tier species before the stars grow cold, and only sexual reproduction can accomplish this here. We can still be weird and alien in the further questions.

Code: (Reproduction method for species) [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (2) NG, TL,
Sexual (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (2) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker
Exotic (Accretion) (1) mightymushroom


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 11, 2020, 06:55:48 pm

Code: (Reproduction method for species) [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (2) NG, TL,
Sexual (1) MetalSlimeHunt
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (2) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker
Exotic (Accretion) (2) mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 06:59:12 pm

Quote from: Glass on June 11, 2020, 06:25:55 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 05:53:59 pm

OK, so, remember that any means of reproduction that *doesn't* combine DNA/an equivalent is going to naturally be less diverse, more prone to speciation (may or may not be a terrible problem, but still), and slower to evolve.

So far, "construction" is interesting but is a little too...tailored for exploitation? I think it'd make more sense if "animals" on our planet tend to be made of a core "alive" and squishy component and a surrounding harder shell that is not necessary "dead" but not as "alive" as the core, if that makes sense. Manipulative bits and all would be various bits of the "shell"; basically the core would be the most basic possible unit of life for any of these species. Loss of the various organs and manipulators and armor that builds up in the outer shell would hurt the creature, but wouldn't be capable of killing it because the core can always sustain itself. Less-intelligent species are made of almost completely identical individuals since they are only capable of replicating an external body plan in their instructions, as life gets more intelligent individuals start to be able to alter their external body plan (quite literally a body plan, as in "blueprints", encoded in our equivalent of genetics) to suit themselves. The more intelligent, the more alterations they can conceive of and build.

Individuals would start with just a core and thus be vulnerable when young, but capable of rapidly beginning to build the shell around themselves. Plant equivalents would perhaps just be immobile forms that often prefer a more defense-oriented shell layer rather than one capable of movement and whatnot?

This core either needs to be produced by more than two individuals, inherit the memories of the individual that produced it (thus technically making our entire biosphere basically immortal by most considerations, I think?), or be capable of doing the thing proposed previously where young individuals group up to make larger more capable ones with more diversity.

I like this. Give it a name and I'll put it in the votebox and vote for it.

My understanding is that most if not all of our organ-equivalents are very small and evenly distributed across the body; the circulatory system wierd defined is particularly centerless. It shouldn't be unduly difficult to hook units together to "share" a larger body similar to the plasmodium of slime molds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slime_mold). (I particularly like that Physarum polycephalum has three sex chromosomes, which fits our creatures thematically.) This larger body then produces the reproductive cells out of the genetic grab bag from its constituents.

I like the idea of combining slime mold reproduction with a budding/shedding mechanism. After two or more gametes successfully hook together, they can incubate in the parent pseudo-plasmodium for a little while forming miniature bodies of their own before breaking out of the crust and going on their way.

-----

Ninja: Yes, I suppose this does fall under "Sexual with alien twist".

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (2) NG, TL,
Sexual (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (2) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker
Exotic (Accretion) (1) Kilojoule Proton


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 07:09:30 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (1) PM
Budding (1) TL,
Sexual (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Accretion) (1) Kilojoule Proton


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Rockeater on June 11, 2020, 07:12:26 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission (0)
Fragmentation (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding (1) TL,
Sexual (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
Exotic (Construction) (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding) (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Accretion) (1) Kilojoule Proton


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 11, 2020, 07:13:54 pm

But I'm no good with names, though.

Anyway here it is, laid out.

Quote

Exotic: Core Combination
Our planet features a truly weird form of life, made of a core of highly vital organs enmeshed in neural matter and covered in functional "shells" of armor, skin, appendages, lungs and other large organs (mostly those necessary to support the components of the shell instead of necessary for the core proper). The innermost core can sustain its own life with its photosynthetic/radiotrophic processes. It cannot really fully provide for its own needs, so most of the neural matter and large sections of the organs hibernate in any creature without shell layers capable of providing more energy and nutrients. In "plants", the neural matter is not really composed of neurons but much more effective radiotrophic components capable of providing much more energy to the plant, and its shell tends to both lift the core further into the air (in tree analogs) and add more and more collecting area or, sometimes, chemical defenses to deter predation.

Cores are not necessarily spherical and shells are not necessarily actual solid shells of hard materials (though such defenses are certainly common given that everything in our biosphere is made of actual rock and needs radiation shielding), but many creatures in our biosphere (definitely not all and perhaps not even most) share a definable "core" which is fully grown before release from its parent and gains capabilities as it gains additional pieces.

These cores can certainly be spawned in as many ways as any biosphere can support, but the lineage that led to the intelligent species on our planet used a peculiar form of neural matter sharing, where individuals produce "excess" neural matter and some of the organs of a core in one of their shell layers, and combines it with additional members of the species (not sure how many would make sense) who have produced some of the other organs the new core will need to actually be a fully-formed core. This mixing of neural matter and organs from different sources encouraged diversity and evolution, and also allowed the passing down of some amount of memory along with instinct and learned behaviors from each generation of organisms to the next.

Sheesh, I much prefer sticking to physics. This biology stuff is weird.

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
Exotic (Construction): (2) Glass, SC
Exotic (Shedding): (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Accretion): (1) Kilojoule Proton
Exotic (Core Combination): (1) Madman


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on June 11, 2020, 07:15:11 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (2) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom
Exotic (Construction): (1) SC
Exotic (Shedding): (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Accretion): (1) Kilojoule Proton
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Kilojoule Proton on June 11, 2020, 08:28:42 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (3) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton
Exotic (Construction): (1) SC
Exotic (Shedding): (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on June 11, 2020, 08:52:59 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (4) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (3) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 09:53:22 pm

Optimization is for lame-os. Y'alls wanted to be siliconboys to be different but now you just wanna have 'em bang like boring humans. Boooooooo, I object.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Taricus on June 11, 2020, 09:55:31 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (4) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (4) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 09:59:41 pm

Quote from: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 09:53:22 pm

Optimization is for lame-os. Y'alls wanted to be siliconboys to be different but now you just wanna have 'em bang like boring humans. Boooooooo, I object.

I object to it as well, please use the most recent voted to add your vote to which reproduction system you prefer, 6 non sexual reproduction methods to choose, or propose another exotic reproduction form

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Skynet on June 11, 2020, 10:22:44 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (1) TL,
Sexual (4) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (5) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Though I'm very sympathetic towards Core Combination, I'm just strategically voting against Sexual reproduction. If it counts, I hope that "Core Combination" gets used as the 'fluff' to justify the Shedding method of reproduction.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 10:31:18 pm

Quote from: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 09:53:22 pm

Optimization is for lame-os. Y'alls wanted to be siliconboys to be different but now you just wanna have 'em bang like boring humans. Boooooooo, I object.

While I can't speak for all the Sexy Voters, I want them to bang like slime molds and am preparing a short dissertation to that effect in anticipation of the GM asking, "Sex how?"

In case you're wondering, I intend to borrow from the shedding proposal in that the young break their way out of the parents' skin/shell. And it would allow for multiple simultaneous egress, possibly fatal to the parent, as an echo of the fragmentation option.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 11, 2020, 10:34:09 pm

Quote from: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 10:31:18 pm

Quote from: Man of Paper on June 11, 2020, 09:53:22 pm

Optimization is for lame-os. Y'alls wanted to be siliconboys to be different but now you just wanna have 'em bang like boring humans. Boooooooo, I object.

While I can't speak for all the Sexy Voters, I want them to bang like slime molds and am preparing a short dissertation to that effect in anticipation of the GM asking, "Sex how?"

In case you're wondering, I intend to borrow from the shedding proposal in that the young break their way out of the parents' skin/shell. And it would allow for multiple simultaneous egress, possibly fatal to the parent, as an echo of the fragmentation option.

So, sex, then fragmentation of the parents once the gametes are combined and the young break out?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 11, 2020, 10:58:13 pm

I'm still shaping some of the fine details. In the current draft having sex would be a long term commitment inasmuch as my proposal would entail minimum 4 partners (maybe more) but at this stage of evolution nobody is smart enough yet to do all the matchmaking beforehand. So the first two hook up and hope they run into more critters who are compatible. To keep together they form a physical bond that isn't intended to be broken. (Compare Footballfish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footballfish), not necessarily with the same size differential.)

Whether the offspring are fatal to the parent on the way out depends on how many there are tearing gashes in the parents' epidermis, and how large they grow before leaving. It's likely to be "too many" – this is what I meant by an 'echo' of fragmentation, not the parents themselves but the scattering of offspring – this early on in evolution simply because many offspring is such a useful way to compete in the food web. On Earth there is a tendency for larger (and/or smarter) organisms to invest resources in fewer but well developed young, though this is not an absolute rule. The eventual dominant species might do the same or might not.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Ardent Debater on June 11, 2020, 10:58:57 pm

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

Evolution is possible with any method of reproduction, albeit much slower and slighter with some than others. Remember that whatever you choose will be the basis for life-forms on the planet's biosphere as well, barring certain disasters, the advantages and disadvantages in relation to other methods of reproduction will largely be from the evolutionary chain's end-result paired against other spacefaring species, and then largely the decision against two-sexed live birthing and self-perpetuating predatory fungal/migratory omnivorous ecosystems, as the galaxy's most popular methods per capita, respectively, not counting the plethora of minor species, AI-derived entities, and almost anything hailing from the Immaterium your descendants are likely to encounter. The ideas you've devised so far are extremely fascinating, some similar enough I could see them persisting and competing in the same biosphere. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat-analogue to see which one you decide on, rest assured, if sexual reproduction is chosen, the odds of it resembling human coupling are slim to none, and not solely because of the local biostructure.

Quote from: 0cra_tr0per on June 11, 2020, 06:06:17 pm

I feel like we can drop the 40k part of the title until after our civilization starts researching FTL travel, since it's more or less "an evolving pre-sapient alien race is you" right now.

Spoiler:  GM Note (click to show/hide)

That's a very fair suggestion to make, but I don't know if I'll change the thread title yet because, every possible choice you could've taken to distance yourselves from the setting at large aside, it's core to the later stages. I'll explain the reasoning that went into me posting the thread with the standing title. It all started when I was replaying Chapter Master a few weeks back in a vain effort to capture some of that mid 2010s-nostalgia and distract from the circumstances, when it occurred to me that if it was likely the vision would never be wholly realized, there was no incentive to continue when a forum game could do the same, if not in more depth, and ensure I wasn't the only person enjoying it. The problem is that a 40k Loyalist Chapter Quest would be, by necessity, somewhat restrictive, and while running a Renegade Chapter Quest had its appeal, I didn't feel inspired at the time toward that subset of the lore. It occurred to me that any Imperium-centered Quest that wasn't focused around an underhive ganger's or Rogue Trader's or similarly impressive or desperate individual's oexploits somewhere would have the same intrinsic intrinsic limitations, which is what gives the Imperium so much of its aesthetic and allure, and I wanted to run a faction management game that would get into the core of the 40k setting.

Running a Ruinous Powers-related thread of some kind was possible, but arguably even more narrowly fixated, which again, is what makes the faction as it is, and that's indispensable, so that wasn't an option. I'd given up on doing something with the 40k setting until I was trawling through some obscure bits of the Lexicanum, re-found a favorite minor xenos species of mine, and considering the duration of the canonical timeline, it all clicked. Instead of slotting a sub-faction into an already existing major faction, it would be centered around a completely different and almost entirely ignored perspective: that of the independent, minor species struggling to survive and ensure a future for themselves and their kind in the grim darkness of the far future. From there, I was going to give you a simple, by-rote series of choices to determine your starting circumstances and broad inhuman adaptions/psychology, but I remembered an evolution game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125778.0) I lurked almost a decade ago, and realized that there was nothing preventing me from taking the same concept along with a hideous, purple-prose laden bastardization vaguely resembling Haspen's brilliant SPAMKINGDOM series (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159974.0) for the intermediary stage, and instead of foisting my own preconceptions on what a species could be, applying them to the thread as a first and second stage so that they could make their species and define who they were overtime, with the hundreds of aspects and deviations from the norm not a single person could've ever foreseen, all to make something as deep as any 40k lore, so that when the species does attain sapience and reach for the hostile stars, it would genuinely mean something. That's what 40k is about to me, that grim hope that even if the galaxy is irreversibly terrible, that doom can be delayed, even indefinitely by anyone willing to put in significant effort and sacrifice, and maybe, just maybe, if an out-of-context species were lucky, fast, and brazen enough, that preordained outcome could even be changed.

That said, nothing is going to be handed to your cutrent species or its descendants. I'm going to be rolling for everything as transparently as possible without introducing the risk of metagaming, which I don't think is going to be a problem to begin with at all, and already have a handful of random tables at work ironing out the state of the sector surrounding your starting home-system. I'll be keeping OC donut steel to a minimum on my end, but given how vague the DAoT and Age of Strife are outside of select lore tidbits, some of that is inevitable, and I'll be making every effort to follow the precedent preexisting lore has set and preserve verisimilitude from a thematic and if not hard, at least squishy scientific standpoint. My apologies for getting carried away rambling, if anyone else is annoyed that the timeline hasn't entered the 40k, I'm more than comfortable changing the title, though I'm not entirely certain which Terran millennia life emerged on the radioactive, jagged, large mineral jackpot of a planet. Thank you all for participating so far, I've got a dentist appointment scheduled for tomorrow morning and noon, so I won't be able to get an update out upon awakening before getting into my day-to-day business as I generally prefer to, but I will be posting one later tomorrow afternoon or night, or morning, for those of you in alternate timezones to my own. You all take care.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 11, 2020, 11:46:59 pm

Quote from: Skynet on June 11, 2020, 10:22:44 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (4) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (6) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Though I'm very sympathetic towards Core Combination, I'm just strategically voting against Sexual reproduction. If it counts, I hope that "Core Combination" gets used as the 'fluff' to justify the Shedding method of reproduction.

You do realize we are pretty much the rock version of Orks now this way right? Not saying it’s a bad thing, just saying.

( Orks, Nids and so forth do not sexual reproduce. Hell with Humanity in 40k there are legions of clones, some lobotomies onnpurpose to be cyborgs aside the convicts who get that treatment as robo zombies.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 11, 2020, 11:57:40 pm

Technically, orks ARE sexually reproducing-- Mushrooms DO use sex.

Specifically, a fruiting body is comprised of the combined mycelium of two different fungal colonies, and spore production is the result of sexual recombination.

So, Orks *SHOULD* evolve from sexual recombination, and not just from germline mutation.  (The imperium is going after the orks all wrong with spaceships and disruptor cannons.   No. They should introduce rival fungal strains that cause abortion (http://mushroom-collecting.com/mushroomentoloma.html), or introduce genetically modified fungal strains that alter ork behavior.)

Humanoid ork forms just lack genitalia, because they are already (being end-stage fruit bodies that produce the spores) recombinant from the sexual interaction of their parent mycelial mass.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Tyrant Leviathan on June 12, 2020, 12:04:45 am

Quote from: wierd on June 11, 2020, 11:57:40 pm

Technically, orks ARE sexually reproducing-- Mushrooms DO use sex.

Specifically, a fruiting body is comprised of the combined mycelium of two different fungal colonies, and spore production is the result of sexual recombination.

So, Orks *SHOULD* evolve from sexual recombination, and not just from germline mutation.  (The imperium is going after the orks all wrong with spaceships and disruptor cannons.   No. They should introduce rival fungal strains that cause abortion (http://mushroom-collecting.com/mushroomentoloma.html), or introduce genetically modified fungal strains that alter ork behavior.)

Humanoid ork forms just lack genitalia, because they are already (being end-stage fruit bodies that produce the spores) recombinant from the sexual interaction of their parent mycelial mass.

They cannot do that for the same reason they stopped viral exterminus. It pretty much empowers Nurgle. ( Yeah bio warfare, he loves that shit.)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Iris on June 12, 2020, 12:30:41 am

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (2) PM, Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (5) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (6) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Powder Miner on June 12, 2020, 01:02:06 am

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (5) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (7) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: piratejoe on June 12, 2020, 01:52:41 am

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (6) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (7) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: andrea on June 12, 2020, 05:18:16 am

I like construction, but I agree with those that say that some manner of combining DNA is good for evolution...

Quote from: Evolutionary construction

At first, our lineage began in the porous rocks around deep sea vents. With energy readily at hand, mobility wasn't prized and all that was needed was protection from environment and other more primitive forms of life. For that reason, these primitive organisms sheltered in holes, eventually growing to integrate them further and further to the point that one couldnt live long without the comfortable embrace of rock, the inert matter transformed into a semi living shell. Reproduction was handles by releasing in the currents seeds carrying part of the information and energy required to generate a new being and hope that enough would congregate on a suitable surface, in order to form a new organism which could seek shelter before dying in the hostile environment.

This carried on for many hundred million years, until a revolution happened: life started building its own shells. At first, this capability was merely used to expand the little space provided by nature, giving birth to the myriad of iridescent corals that still cover much of our oceans. At some point however a coral started purposefully breaking part of its shell to act as a fertilization focus, giving birth to the first free-floating shelled organism. After that, the mechanism got ever more refined. As mobile shelled life spread and evolved, the mechanism standardized as such:

First, an animal or group of animals will start nesting in an area where they have a large supply of food and material - naturally occurring or previously gathered.
For a period of time, the efforts of the nesting animals will be entirely dedicated to building shells. Most commonly, one parent (henceforth the craftparent) builds one shell, but collaborative projects occasionally happen in some species and allow for greater and more complex shells.
The shell built in this way is completely sealed, with a cavity inside to host the future organism. After the sealing is complete, the craftparent(s) will coat it with a pheromone that attracts members of the same species to it.
At this point, any number of genetic parents can inject seeds and incubation fluid to the so far empty shell, then sealing it again. This process stops after the pheromone wears off.
If enough genetic material was injected, a new organism will start developing and if the nutrient mixture is appropriate it will grow enough to be able to breach the seals on the shells and finally be born.

In this kind of reproduction, the characteristics of the offspring are determined in 3 ways:
1) The shape of the shell provided by the craftparent, which will determine how the shell will develop in adulthood, the safety of the child in youth and the easy of it being born ( if seals are too hard, the creature may never be able to emerge)
2) The genetic material provided by the genetic parents
3) The incubation fluid provided by the genetic parents with provides epigenetic information, modifying which genes will activate and when

It should be noted that most often the craftparent is also one of the genetic parent and that successful fertilization of the shell is only a matter of quantity of seed, without regard of how many genetic parents there are or any required compatibility among them ( basically, no sexes)

So, eggs but crafted and with multiple parents.

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (6) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (7) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Exotic (Evolutionary construction): (1) Andrea


It is late to get this voted I suppose, but I wanted to get the idea out regardless.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 12, 2020, 06:16:29 am

Quote from: andrea on June 12, 2020, 05:18:16 am

It is late to get this voted I suppose, but I wanted to get the idea out regardless.

The mingling of genetic material inside the shell probably fits in with the Sexual vote option. Ardent Debater promised "(Complications Require Further Questions)" so I believe you may have your chance to push this next vote. I like this. I mean, I do have my own oddly complicated take on fluid mingling to push out, but I like this too. The evolutionary pressure toward this form is a nice touch.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: andrea on June 12, 2020, 06:32:42 am

Well, it might be possibleto have it later as a complication to sexual I guess. But it doesn't really have sexes and in theory the craftparent could by itself fertilize a shell (which would be rare, as it involves a much higher effort).

Ardent, would my evolutionary construction fall into sexual reproduction?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: King Zultan on June 12, 2020, 06:36:40 am

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (6) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (8) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner, King Zultan
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Exotic (Evolutionary construction): (1) Andrea


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 12, 2020, 06:40:54 am

Ah, on first read I didn't catch on that it could be a solo act. I think any time two or more strains are mingled, that falls under the vast heading of Sexual even if the organisms don't have a familiar distinction of sexes. Consider the note on sexual fungus above.

---

---

As promised, a "short dissertation" on a non-human style of "sexual" reproduction, inspired by slime molds and others that bodily combine individual organisms, which could be considered complete on their own merits, into a larger reproductive entity.

Spoiler: Chimeric Sexuality and Gestation (click to show/hide)

Although several plans for organizing an organism emerged from the primordial soup, one of the most common to survive the early competition takes the form of a 3-legged and 3-armed animal¹, usually with a siliceous outer casing of plate or shell. This basic unit is called a node. By itself the node is a complete organism, however in all but the least advanced species the sexual organelles remain unused so long as it travels solo.

Two compatible nodes may fuse at a leg tip². The remaining limbs remain free, forming a 4-legged and 6-armed superorganism called a dinode (or in some taxonomies a duple). Electrodynamic blood analogue flows freely across the point of juncture, sharing nutrition between nodes; a triggered adaptive process encourages the individuals' immune systems to quickly recognize and accept the other's flesh³; not too long after that nerve analogues extend across the connection, allowing each partner access to the other's senses and even memories. There is not a full "mind meld" as each member retains its own core cortex, but various data can be transmitted easily along superconducting silicon nerves. Different taxa exhibit a number of variations in the nature of this coupling, with some retaining a flexible joint and others thickening the dermal plates and locking the limbs into place. After a sufficient period together, the tissues at the conjunction can and will grow past and into each other, blurring the boundary line. Traveling stem cell analogues floating in the bloodstream may congregate and repair tissues in the 'other' node to further erase a genetic notion of identity.

The dinode is a highly stable form in most organisms; there is little advantage to separating again when one could be part of a superorganism with twice the size, twice the sensory organelles, and twice the feeding capacity. The dinode can be further extended as a polynode by combining another node or dinode at a free leg tip. Polynodes can potentially form long chains or, more rarely, rings. Motor coordination amongst the nodes becomes increasingly difficult as the distance between them increases: even superconducting silicon nerves have a speed limit, while the cortex of each node tends to be proprietary about its own muscles. For this reason most taxa that form numerically large polynodes tend to be reef builders, with the oldest connected nodes secreting thicker and thicker shells until they become fully sessile while younger portions of the chain dangle/flail/sway outward more actively seeking both nutrition and more joints for the colony.

As polynode chains extend in length, the sex organelles have remained mature but quiescent. They will only activate fully under the condition that at least one node of the superorganism forms a chimeric joining at all three leg tips⁴. The affected node(s) produces a hormone that stimulates gamete production throughout the entire superorganism. Genetically the nodes are diploid and require the combination of only two gametes for a complete offspring no matter how many nodes are part of the superorganism. In the vast majority of species these gametes have no size or structural distinction – thus no sexes as humans know them – except that chemical coatings prevent gametes from the same parent node from combining with each other as a zygote. These same coatings also prevent a fused zygote from implanting and incubating within either parent node (or genetically identical repaired tissue).

Both gamete and zygote stages float freely through the blood analogue "seeking" proper conditions to continue growing. A growing zygote or blastula makes its way to the placental-cambium layer of a non-parental node's dermis where it forms a small cyst and begins growing just beneath the outer plates or shell. It is not unknown for this stage to fail due to radiation exposure before it is fully developed. As maturation continues, the offspring will "dig out" a larger space for itself from the hard outer material in addition to pushing the softer inner tissues aside. Eventually a new node "hatches" by tearing its way through the carapace, leaving a proportional hole in the gestational node. Since there is a tendency for numerous fetal nodes to develop simultaneously, the accumulated injuries can be fatal to the parental superorganism, either directly or via necrosis of the compromised tissue.

There is a significant evolutionary divide comparable to Terran taxonomic orders, or even kingdoms, between organisms that form dinodes quickly prior to reaching sexual maturity, and those that delay until adolescence or later⁵. (Future) fossil records indicate that the former, enjoying the advantages of powerful dinode bodies⁶, tended to dominate early history. In these types it is usual for dinodes and single nodes of a given taxon to be present in the free moving population with about equal proportion. On the other hand, the types that remain single for a longer period of their childhood appear to have experienced more evolutionary pressure to develop advanced signaling, emotions, and "intelligence" in order to inform their quest for mates as well as for living life generally.


Notes
1) Barring amputating injuries or polydactyl cancers, of course. Has the regenerative capacity of our life forms been decided?
2) Cue the evolutionary arms race as predatory nodes mimic connection signaling in order to lure prey.
3) Cue the evolutionary arms race as infectious life takes advantage of this trial period to spread from host to host.
4) Some advanced organisms may exploit this fact as a form of birth control, delaying the formation of a reproductive trigger joint until certain conditions are met.
5) Only a handful of taxa go full polynode prior to reproductive maturity; it seems that was an evolutionary dead end although some of the reef builder types are prolific if not very advanced.
6) No doubt some species grew very large to maximize this advantage. Dinode-saurs⁷, we could call them.
7) Honest to goodness, I did not invent the name just for that pun. The pun came to me much later while I was writing.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Puppyguard on June 13, 2020, 04:43:11 pm

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (6) MetalSlimeHunt, mightymushroom, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (9) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner, King Zultan, Puppyguard
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Exotic (Evolutionary construction): (1) Andrea


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: wierd on June 20, 2020, 01:39:49 am

Has this thread become a tomb world full of necrons or something?

*poke*

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on June 20, 2020, 11:42:45 am

I don’t see a tie, though dealing with the formation of life no doubt takes a while

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: IncompetentFortressMaker on June 20, 2020, 12:31:57 pm

True that.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Madman198237 on June 20, 2020, 12:44:37 pm

Also it's been a mere seven days and life happens on occasion.

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: mightymushroom on June 21, 2020, 09:24:05 am

Since this has been poked and bumped, I will use the occasion to change my vote back to my first idea, Accretion. (Probably doesn't affect outcome, I know.) I just like its feel of alien-ness even more than whatever strange variations of sexuality we can come up with. If the creatures were to develop sufficient internal feedback and "controls", they may be able to use epigenetic information to alter their reproductive stalks so as to shape the next generation with traits they "wish" they would have had in a sort of pseudo-Lamarckian evolution rather than familiar Darwinism.

Code: [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (5) MetalSlimeHunt, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (9) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner, King Zultan, Puppyguard
Exotic (Accretion): (1) mightymushroom
Exotic (Core Combination): (2) Madman, Glass
Exotic (Evolutionary construction): (1) Andrea


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Puppyguard on June 21, 2020, 10:41:21 am

Code: (Votebox) [Select]

Fission: (0)
Fragmentation: (1) Rockeater
Budding: (0)
Sexual (5) MetalSlimeHunt, Kilojoule Proton, SC777, Iridium, Piratejoe
Exotic (Construction): (0)
Exotic (Shedding): (8) MoP, IncompetentFortressMaker, NG, Taricus, Skynet, TL, Powder Miner, King Zultan
Exotic (Accretion): (1) mightymushroom
Exotic (Core Combination): (3) Madman, Glass, Puppyguard
Exotic (Evolutionary construction): (1) Andrea


Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Naturegirl1999 on July 06, 2020, 08:34:01 am

Ardent Debator, do you still want to run the game? Would you like help with ideas?

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Xantalos on July 09, 2020, 11:14:48 pm

Oh my, this is a rare find - strangely well-detailed, 40k-involved, and it involves alien aliens?

Definitely watching this. (https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/788/251/14a.jpg)

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Glass on July 09, 2020, 11:16:43 pm

Quote from: Xantalos on July 09, 2020, 11:14:48 pm

Oh my, this is a rare find - strangely well-detailed, 40k-involved, and it involves alien aliens?

Definitely watching this. (https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/788/251/14a.jpg)

Yeesssssss... assuming it resumes.
:p

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: Xantalos on July 09, 2020, 11:23:42 pm

I regularly update my own forum games on a multi-month basis, I reckon a week or two is a pretty generous window of time to be patient for (especially if Ardent Debater's living in a more Covid-heavy area or somesuch).

Title: Re: You are a Minor Xenos Species in Warhammer 40k
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 09, 2020, 11:27:07 pm

Regardless, we'll be ready when you are, Ardent.