Post by: Mephansteras on February 21, 2021, 05:29:45 pm
You hurriedly get dressed and head towards the Count's manor. His seneschal greets you at the door and ushers you in to the great hall. Once everyone has assembled, the Count rises and addresses you. "The time has come. Dark portents arrive in the heavens. A cold wind blows from the South. The Red Tree weeps blood. Dark times have come, and it is up to you to save us."
"There are those of us in this town who are descended from heroes. Strong bloodlines that stood up to evil in ages past. And these bloodlines have the power locked inside them to figure who and what is visiting this horror upon us." He picks up a scroll from the table before him. "I call before me the following names...
Players:
- webadict Dark Magus
VectorTown Warlock- TricMagic Town Knight
ToonyManTown WizardBluarianKnightTown Dreamwalker -> 3rd party DemonLuckyowlTown PriestPersus13Town Coven Witch- 4maskwolf Magus Convert Ghoul
ToasterTown Seer- Caz Town Dreamwalker
Jim Groovester3rd party Devil- IcyTea31 Town Sexton
notquitethereTown Coven Witch
Replacement List:
heydude6
Persus13 replaced in for Secretdorf.
Caz replaced in for juicebox
After a rather long hiatus for this game type, it's time for another Supernatual Mafia! I'm looking for a minimum of 9 players for this, but we can easily take more than that.
In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time. So you can read over the previous games to learn what might be out there and what they can do.
Previous games:
Supernatural 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1328001#msg1328001)
Supernatural 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62587.msg1436015#msg1436015)
Supernatural 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=74938.msg1875341#msg1875341)
Supernatural 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2473824#msg2473824)
Supernatural 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106608.msg3165006#msg3165006)
Supernatural 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4638437#msg4638437)
Supernatural 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5338667#msg5338667)
Supernatural 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6242119#msg6242119)
Supernatural 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.0)
Supernatural RP (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2036065#msg2036065)
Supernatural Semi-Bastard (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115529.msg3563365#msg3563365)
Post by: Mephansteras on February 21, 2021, 05:31:33 pm
Roles: The basic information about available town roles will be known. However, I will only give a general description of each role that will give an indication of what the role can do. More specific information will be given in role PMs as necessary. This means you will not know the specific rules of many of the roles, even if you know what they do. There may also be variations on the town roles, both within a game and between games.
Scum and 3rd party role information is not going to be posted in the thread.
All players are Town Aligned unless noted otherwise in their Role PM.
Quoting the Mod without permission results in a Modkill and a ban from the next game I run.
PMs are not allowed unless your Role specifically allows it.
Days will go for 72 hours (Ignoring weekends) or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).
In the event of a tie, no lynch will occur.
Night will go for 24 hours, though that's somewhat flexible. If you do not have your action in within the 24 hours you run the risk of losing your action for the night, though. If you choose not to use your action, please send that instead of just waiting for me to get on with the night without you.
Extensions: There will be NO Extensions for this game in order to keep things moving.
Shortens: Shortening the day requires 75% of the living players requesting it to succeed. If the Game is Shortened it will end as soon as I do the tally with 75%+ players voting for it. It is possible that I will end all voting for the day but need a bit to do the final write-up, in which case further votes will not be counted that day.
All votes should be colored red to make it easy for me to spot them.
In the event of a tie, a No-Lynch will occur.
Speaking While Dead: The dead may post once after they have died to comment on their death. They may not provide any information about the game in this post. After this, any posting in the game before it has ended will result in a one game ban from future games. Repeated abuse, or posts that have a major impact on the game, can result in a permaban from any future games.
Scum, Coven Witches, and some third parties will have special chat areas on http://www.quicktopic.com. I will PM the appropriate link to you at the start of the game or when you die.
There is no Dead Chat for this game, since coming back from the dead is possible.
Event Order: The order of events is generally as follows:
Misdirection
Role-blocking
Protection
Investigations
Night Kills/Conversions
Disturbing the Dead (there is an order for this, if two people target the same corpse, but that's kept hidden)
All kills will be effectively simultaneous. (I may make some literary liberties with this in the PMs, though)
Also, not all roles require the player to leave the house. Generally, magic sounding roles are going to work like Psychic roles in Paranormal. If your role does not require you to leave your house to use, you will be informed of this fact. Roles who don't leave their house cannot be role-blocked by the Guard, though he still protects them.
Potential Town Roles
- Knight - a well trained, armed, and armored warrior. The Knight is too skilled to be easily slain by an attacker.
- Guard - the Guard can lock someone in their house and stand guard through the night. This keeps them in, and others out. At least as long as the guard is around.
- Mystic - Mystics can pierce the veil of reality to discover hidden truths. Seer, Oracles, and Fortune Tellers are all varieties of Mystic.
- Thief - A wanderer of the night. Thieves often spot what others are up to.
- Sorcerer - A powerful mage, the sorcerer likes to keep to himself and has the power to enforce his seclusion.
- Wizard - A powerful mage, the Wizard can use his powers to help keep others safe.
- Warlock - A mage who seeks knowledge from the shades of the dead
- Illusionist - A mage whose mastery of light and shadow can use misdirection to help or harm.
- Dreamwalker - An individual whose dreams may in fact be a reflection of reality
- Priest - An individual dedicated to the gods. How well they serve the gods depends on just how dedicated they actually are.
- Sexton - Charged with caring for the graveyard, he has much to do lately.
- Sage - A learned individual, who can use this knowledge to piece together the clues and discover the truth of the recent events
- Monster Hunter - A powerful warrior, trained to hunt down and kill the monsters that roam the world. May specialize in specific types.
- Witch - Secretive folk who practice forbidden, ancient rites. They hold few secrets from one another
- Werebear - Cursed or blessed, it is hard to say, but these people have great power within them. Beware their fury when provoked.
- Exorcist - Holy men and women trained in holy magics to battle the evils of the Underworld.
Post by: webadict on February 21, 2021, 05:32:35 pm
Post by: Vector on February 21, 2021, 05:36:59 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 21, 2021, 05:42:02 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 21, 2021, 06:22:02 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 21, 2021, 07:20:06 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 21, 2021, 07:23:50 pm
Post by: Secretdorf on February 21, 2021, 09:47:44 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2021, 10:16:09 pm
In.
My activity is going to drop off hard if I'm still alive on March 8th.
Post by: Toaster on February 22, 2021, 01:03:21 am
Post by: juicebox on February 22, 2021, 01:08:12 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 22, 2021, 01:25:41 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 22, 2021, 04:00:46 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 22, 2021, 05:48:21 am
EDIT: NQT put it best in the scumchat:Quote from: NQTThis feels like one of those disastrous heist films where mistakes keep escalating.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 22, 2021, 11:20:10 am
I will let sign-ups go for about another 8 hours or so and then close it so I can start getting the game set up tonight.
Post by: Vector on February 22, 2021, 11:30:24 am
Nice to see that we'll have such a well populated game!
Veckle pats self on back :3
Post by: ToonyMan on February 22, 2021, 02:22:50 pm
Some important observations from reading past games:
1. Toaster is always converted.
2. Do not accept devil deals.
3. Wow I'm an asshole.
Post by: Toaster on February 22, 2021, 03:26:34 pm
1. Toaster is always converted.
That game was such a scum blowout, it wasn't even funny.
Maybe a little funny.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2021, 03:27:37 pm
Which game, you're always converted.1. Toaster is always converted.
That game was such a scum blowout, it wasn't even funny.
Maybe a little funny.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 22, 2021, 03:45:29 pm
Also he killed me after. >:(
Post by: Toaster on February 22, 2021, 03:53:56 pm
Yep, I played in seven of these and changed alignment in five. Started nontown the other two. Vote Toaster if he's not scum now he will be!
Post by: ToonyMan on February 22, 2021, 04:29:21 pm
Yep, I played in seven of these and changed alignment in five. Started nontown the other two. Vote Toaster if he's not scum now he will be!Daaamn. I didn't even realize that part. You've never finished a Supernatural as town, out of seven games.
Spoiler: My Stats (click to show/hide)
4 times town
1 time town then converted
1 time mafia
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2021, 04:39:50 pm
Apparently I tried something dumb in 8 because I replaced into a failing scumteam but I'm not sure what it was.
Side note: the "cult" in eight was a standard scumteam, it was just flavored as a cult.
Post by: webadict on February 22, 2021, 05:59:15 pm
Not my cuppa. Too bizarre for me.
Post by: webadict on February 22, 2021, 06:10:28 pm
I only played in a Supernatural once.Anyway, here's a BYOR with 5 SKs.
Not my cuppa. Too bizarre for me.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 22, 2021, 07:22:29 pm
Last call for sign-ups. I'll be closing them in around 40 min.
Post by: heydude6 on February 22, 2021, 07:41:35 pm
Post by: Vector on February 22, 2021, 07:45:55 pm
PTW
plaaaaay wiiiiith uuuuuuus
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2021, 07:47:56 pm
PTWOne of us!
One of us!
One of us!
Post by: heydude6 on February 22, 2021, 07:48:58 pm
Post by: webadict on February 22, 2021, 08:11:02 pm
I'd end up lurking and being the day 1 lynch. School's got me really busy right now. I might become a replacement though. Mafia games usually need it.Someone's gotta do it!
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2021, 08:17:33 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 22, 2021, 09:03:14 pm
Post by: juicebox on February 22, 2021, 09:05:35 pm
We should do an old-school D1 4mask wagon.
Then after that we should do a D2 juicebox wagon
Post by: Secretdorf on February 22, 2021, 09:13:45 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on February 22, 2021, 09:18:35 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 22, 2021, 09:30:22 pm
I'll be honest, this setup scares me. Otherwise I'd probably have joined.
Oh? What aspect do you find scary?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 22, 2021, 10:23:40 pm
Side note: the "cult" in eight was a standard scumteam, it was just flavored as a cult.Yes. Same as the Supernatural 2 cult.
Probably the unknown scum faction? It will at least be a previous one in this game.I'll be honest, this setup scares me. Otherwise I'd probably have joined.Oh? What aspect do you find scary?
Post by: Vector on February 22, 2021, 11:49:08 pm
I'll be honest, this setup scares me. Otherwise I'd probably have joined.
one of us! one of us!
I am going to live to the end!
Not if I have anything to say about it ;)
Post by: Persus13 on February 22, 2021, 11:52:33 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 23, 2021, 12:29:18 am
I completely missed this was happening. IN or replacement if signups are closed.
Sign-ups are indeed closed. Sorry about that. But I'll add you to the replacement list.
Game will start Tuesday morning.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on February 23, 2021, 02:28:01 am
Oh? What aspect do you find scary?It's a very low-information setup, that's the main thing. It's a weird thing for me, but I'm comfortable in no-information scenarios, and high-information scenarios, but the in between gets to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 10:58:59 am
Post by: Mephansteras on February 23, 2021, 11:19:16 am
Those of you who are called by the Count stand up, and are beckoned to follow him into a small council chamber.
There the Count pulls out a heavy tome, which he opens with a heavy sigh.
“I hoped never to need to read these words. And, yet, it is our only hope of salvation.”
He presses his signet ring into the book, and the lights of the room go dim. You can see him, and the book, but little else.
“You thirteen are both our salvation, and our doom. Among you are those who wish to ruin all that we have built over the years.” his voice rings out, an unearthly quality running through it.
“Those of you who are pure of heart alone can save us. Each day you will need to discuss, and vote the one who you think is the greatest threat to us all. That individual’s life will be forfeit. So it is commanded. So it shall be done.”
Long strings of bright orange runes float up out of the book and lash out at each of you. They encircle your throat and bind to you with a flash of searing pain.
“These markings bind you and enforce the will of the gods.”
“May the pure of heart save us all. Now, go, there is no time to waste!”
The lights return to normal, and several guards escort you around to the back of the manor where a large tent has been erected. It seems that this is where your daily trials shall be held.
Day 1 has started! It will go until ~5pm Pacific Friday.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 11:32:30 am
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 11:34:01 am
Toaster
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 11:37:00 am
Damn you stole my joke!!Gotta be quick on the draw, my cartoon friend.
Toaster
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 11:42:22 am
Vector I blame you for this.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 11:42:43 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 23, 2021, 11:47:49 am
Vector: Assume you have a daykill. Someone makes a revelation which puts me in a thunderdome with a player you don't have a good read on. Do you shoot me or the other player?
TricMagic: What do you think of the banter other players made before this post?
ToonyMan: What's the point of placing a meme vote without adding your personal touch to it?
BluarianKnight: You're the only one here I haven't played with before. Should I consider you dangerous?
Luckyowl: If you survive to a three-way endgame, how will you decide which of the other players you will vote for?
Secretdorf: What do you think about 4maskwolf's survivor claim?
4maskwolf: Since you suggested a D1 4mask wagon, why aren't you voting for yourself?
Toaster: Could you place your vote, just so I can see you have one? Not going to let that lose me another game.
juicebox: How will you avoid being lynched D2?
Jim Groovester: How can I best convince you to read at least the parts addressed to you if I make lengthier posts?
notquitethere: How likely is it that the "pure of heart" status mentioned in the D1 opening post flavour is separate from being town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 11:49:25 am
4maskwolf: Since you suggested a D1 4mask wagon, why aren't you voting for yourself?Because that's anti-wincon in the worst possible way.
Those questions to web and vec are pretty lolworthy. and NQT for that matter.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 23, 2021, 12:02:28 pm
Those questions to web and vec are pretty lolworthy. and NQT for that matter.Elaborate?
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 12:05:17 pm
webadict: You just called Toony "friend". How is that not buddying?It is buddying. Don't vote ToonyMan, they are my buddy.
Survivor is literally the worst.Why are you doing this to us?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:07:22 pm
Not until they respond, I don't feel like giving them easy answers. They're all good players and can probably answer them well on their own anyway, but it's the principle of the thing.Those questions to web and vec are pretty lolworthy. and NQT for that matter.Elaborate?
PPE:
Because I'm a salty bastard.webadict: You just called Toony "friend". How is that not buddying?It is buddying. Don't vote ToonyMan, they are my buddy.Survivor is literally the worst.Why are you doing this to us?
Also, Icy, your question to web was dumb because... it was dumb? That's really the only way of describing it. Like, what?
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2021, 12:08:16 pm
Toaster
Toaster
Not even mad.
4mask:
Survivor is literally the worst.
Interesting... D1 survivor claim? What motivated you to do this right out the gate?
4maskwolf: Since you suggested a D1 4mask wagon, why aren't you voting for yourself?Because that's anti-wincon in the worst possible way.
Those questions to web and vec are pretty lolworthy. and NQT for that matter.
Since you've not provided any other, can you demonstrate a good RVS question?
IcyTea:
Toaster: Could you place your vote, just so I can see you have one? Not going to let that lose me another game.
You probably saw this coming. Did you expect this?
Jim G: Let's assume you're a cult leader of whatever flavor. How do you pick your converts? Would you pick me again for the WIFOM?
BluarianKnight: Don't believe I've played a game with you. How would you describe your playstyle in one sentence?
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 12:08:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 12:09:37 pm
4mask, the last time I saw a survivor claim D1 they were a SK and poisoned me. I don't understand why you would claim immediately.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 12:13:03 pm
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.I, on the otherhand, am extremely powerful and would strongly ask scum not to kill me (convert would be cool though just saying).
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:13:59 pm
4mask:Because I have zero confidence in my play being good enough to hit the middle ground between being townie enough to avoid the noose and wolfy enough to avoid the nightkill. At least if I out myself people know I'm not a threat to their wincon, since I don't have any abilities.Survivor is literally the worst.
Interesting... D1 survivor claim? What motivated you to do this right out the gate?
PPE: this answer goes to toony as well.
Not really, no. I haven't been a big fan of RVS specifically in years and frankly I don't know what makes a good RVS question. Ask webadict or Vector how I tend to start my games when I'm not here.4maskwolf: Since you suggested a D1 4mask wagon, why aren't you voting for yourself?Because that's anti-wincon in the worst possible way.
Those questions to web and vec are pretty lolworthy. and NQT for that matter.
Since you've not provided any other, can you demonstrate a good RVS question?
Nonsensical questions like the one to web don't make the list, though. "Is you joking with toonyman buddy" is pretty lolzy.
PPE:
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
Post by: Persus13 on February 23, 2021, 12:16:00 pm
Fine by me! Good luck everyone!I completely missed this was happening. IN or replacement if signups are closed.
Sign-ups are indeed closed. Sorry about that. But I'll add you to the replacement list.
Game will start Tuesday morning.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 12:19:56 pm
This is true. Web is my Webuddy.Alright, time to triple down on this investment.
Would you like to be eliminated?Because I'm a salty bastard.webadict: You just called Toony "friend". How is that not buddying?It is buddying. Don't vote ToonyMan, they are my buddy.Survivor is literally the worst.Why are you doing this to us?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:21:10 pm
I'm aware of how certain players on Bay12 react to survivors, if that's what you're asking. I'm hoping that, as Tiruin once put it, we have "no more of that kill all third parties carp."This is true. Web is my Webuddy.Alright, time to triple down on this investment.Would you like to be eliminated?Because I'm a salty bastard.webadict: You just called Toony "friend". How is that not buddying?It is buddying. Don't vote ToonyMan, they are my buddy.Survivor is literally the worst.Why are you doing this to us?
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2021, 12:22:57 pm
Survivor is literally the worst.Thanks for claiming early, serial-killer 4maskwolf. Or should I say, 4maskwerebear???
notquitethere: How likely is it that the "pure of heart" status mentioned in the D1 opening post flavour is separate from being town?I doubt it is separate at all. He probably just means town by that. You tell me, has it ever meant anything else? There's apparently nothing new this time round:
In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time. So you can read over the previous games to learn what might be out there and what they can do.
Toaster, you're very familiar with this setup. What's the biggest anti-town threat out there?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:24:08 pm
I'm assuming this is a reference to Jiokuy's claiming his SK werebear abilities rather than the actual werebear abilities back in Supernatural 7?Survivor is literally the worst.Thanks for claiming early, serial-killer 4maskwolf. Or should I say, 4maskwerebear???
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 12:29:10 pm
PPE:I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
And so the run of being scummy continues. That is your first thought when I claim to have no powers?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:30:49 pm
Yep!PPE:I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
And so the run of being scummy continues. That is your first thought when I claim to have no powers?
I guess you haven't played many Meph games. VT is a surprisingly rare role, there have probably been more of most other town roles than VTs throughout the history of this game. Claiming VT D1 might as well be a huge siren saying "I'm a member of the mafia."
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 12:33:47 pm
PPE:I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
And so the run of being scummy continues. That is your first thought when I claim to have no powers?
My run specifically. But any tracker in the group could see the truth. How does my one post seem a decent place to start?
Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that. Can't track or investigate or bus or anything. Unless I'm lying to cover up a more powerful role. (Just posting without thinking there. So you know that post wasn't coached at all given the number of experienced players in this game.)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 12:55:32 pm
Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that.Except the mafiakill, of course.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 12:56:45 pm
Too easy. Scumlean.Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that.Except the mafiakill, of course.
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2021, 01:00:15 pm
4mask:Because I have zero confidence in my play being good enough to hit the middle ground between being townie enough to avoid the noose and wolfy enough to avoid the nightkill. At least if I out myself people know I'm not a threat to their wincon, since I don't have any abilities.Survivor is literally the worst.
Interesting... D1 survivor claim? What motivated you to do this right out the gate?
PPE: this answer goes to toony as well.
So we're facing wolves? Good to know.
NQT:
Toaster, you're very familiar with this setup. What's the biggest anti-town threat out there?
Cult-type factions. I've seen vampire lords and a Dark Magus with a one-shot convert and a bunch of other X-shot abilities (plus faction kill.)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 01:03:38 pm
4mask:4mask:Because I have zero confidence in my play being good enough to hit the middle ground between being townie enough to avoid the noose and wolfy enough to avoid the nightkill. At least if I out myself people know I'm not a threat to their wincon, since I don't have any abilities.Survivor is literally the worst.
Interesting... D1 survivor claim? What motivated you to do this right out the gate?
PPE: this answer goes to toony as well.
So we're facing wolves? Good to know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 01:05:59 pm
Too easy. Scumlean.Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that.Except the mafiakill, of course.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 23, 2021, 01:06:18 pm
Also, Icy, your question to web was dumb because... it was dumb? That's really the only way of describing it. Like, what?Is it dumber than not trying to start any conversation at all?
Toaster
You probably saw this coming. Did you expect this?Absolutely. In fact, it would have been most interesting if you'd picked someone else, since then I'd have asked why you picked them in particular. Why did you pick the boring option?
TricMagic
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Why would you claim this? What good is it to the town?
And so the run of being scummy continues.Continues? 4maskwolf hadn't posted anything before his claim?
So you know that post wasn't coached at all given the number of experienced players in this game.Suspiciously specific.
webadict, ToonyMan
Tripling down on not having a real conversation with each other? Bold move.This is true. Web is my Webuddy.Alright, time to triple down on this investment.
notquitethere
I doubt it is separate at all. He probably just means town by that. You tell me, has it ever meant anything else? There's apparently nothing new this time round:I've only skimmed the past games, so I wouldn't know. How useful is flavour analysis in general in this format? Mephansteras said that it wouldn't be useless.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 01:08:32 pm
4maskwolfDefinitely not. Starting a conversation some way has to happen in order for the game to proceed properly.Also, Icy, your question to web was dumb because... it was dumb? That's really the only way of describing it. Like, what?Is it dumber than not trying to start any conversation at all?
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 01:16:28 pm
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 01:28:12 pm
Vector: Assume you have a daykill. Someone makes a revelation which puts me in a thunderdome with a player you don't have a good read on. Do you shoot me or the other player?
Almost certainly the other player, because I was dead-set on your being scum last time as a claimed mason. Without further evidence, I'm going to lean towards shooting the other one.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 01:28:53 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 23, 2021, 01:44:11 pm
You didn't read the second post that quoted that one, did you IcyTea?No, seriously. You said that 4mask being scummy "continued". Where did it start?
Quote
And I claimed that for an easy confirm.You do realize that your no-abilities claim is practically impossible to confirm without someone using an ability on you?
Quote
What's the point of those questions you are asking? They feel wrong to me on an instinctive level.They start a conversation by their nature of requiring answers, so that I don't need to rely on my instincts to determine people's alignments.
4maskwolf
What's your plan for survival? Do you intend to be useful to town, or just rely on there being better lynch targets?
Vector
Almost certainly the other player, because I was dead-set on your being scum last time as a claimed mason. Without further evidence, I'm going to lean towards shooting the other one.Isn't this a cognitive bias? Just because you misjudged me as scum when I had a strong case for being town, doesn't mean that you should judge me as town when I don't have that circumstance. In fact, shouldn't it make me more suspicious that I don't have a strong case for being town right now?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 01:46:14 pm
4maskwolf
What's your plan for survival? Do you intend to be useful to town, or just rely on there being better lynch targets?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 02:15:54 pm
PPE:I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
And so the run of being scummy continues. That is your first thought when I claim to have no powers?
My run specifically. But any tracker in the group could see the truth. How does my one post seem a decent place to start?
Icytea. I get it was just after, but one could pay attention. I'l forgive you, if only because I'm coming off a finishing post in Vengeful. And instincts are very useful in a social game, it's how you determine something is wrong with how things are worded. Or logic, but in that case I'll go with instinct until proper logic appears to fault that instinct.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 02:36:24 pm
webadict, ToonyManJealous 'cuz you ain't us. Townlean. Pretty good conrent so far.Tripling down on not having a real conversation with each other? Bold move.This is true. Web is my Webuddy.Alright, time to triple down on this investment.
I believe you, but your reasoning is wickedy whack. Scumlean.Vector: Assume you have a daykill. Someone makes a revelation which puts me in a thunderdome with a player you don't have a good read on. Do you shoot me or the other player?
Almost certainly the other player, because I was dead-set on your being scum last time as a claimed mason. Without further evidence, I'm going to lean towards shooting the other one.
Why are you cosplaying as a Jester?4maskwolf
What's your plan for survival? Do you intend to be useful to town, or just rely on there being better lynch targets?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 02:50:40 pm
Almost certainly the other player, because I was dead-set on your being scum last time as a claimed mason. Without further evidence, I'm going to lean towards shooting the other one.Isn't this a cognitive bias? Just because you misjudged me as scum when I had a strong case for being town, doesn't mean that you should judge me as town when I don't have that circumstance. In fact, shouldn't it make me more suspicious that I don't have a strong case for being town right now?
So, you obviously don't have a strong case for being town right now, because we're RVSing and you haven't yet claimed as a mason. Under the circumstances, your question is moot, and I know it, and you know it, &c. It's an intellectual exercise.
As an intellectual exercise: I learned last game that even with very strong reasons to think you should be town, my gut may misread you as scum. We have played all of one game together. I don't have a similar piece of information about any other player in the game (except NQT, who I have a strong bias to read as town even when he isn't). Under those circumstances, which to me basically gives "person I can't read vs. person I can't read," I might as well shoot the other one to change things up a bit.
I mean, if you want my real answer? I'd go back and reread the thread until I had more information on you, the other guy, and the person who started the thunderdome. It depends on what Day it is. It depends on who else is dead and how much information each kill would provide, blah blah blah blah blah for me it's more about context than about any one person involved and without that context the question doesn't give viable information about my ge-new-eye-N thought process.
But you know that.
So, you're looking like an awesome D1 lynch target, because you've managed to make it clear that you have no interest in furthering town goals. Maybe knock it off. If you actually are a survivor and you want to win with town, you need to help us find us some scum today. Otherwise, let's just say that you're the default.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 02:53:08 pm
I made a case on TolyK and still think the slot is sus, but please, continue to tell me how I have no intent to further the town's wincon. I love playing the game and then being told that everything I do didn't actually exist and the cases I make don't matter.
So, you're looking like an awesome D1 lynch target, because you've managed to make it clear that you have no interest in furthering town goals. Maybe knock it off. If you actually are a survivor and you want to win with town, you need to help us find us some scum today. Otherwise, let's just say that you're the default.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 02:54:57 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 23, 2021, 02:56:06 pm
4maskwolf: IcyTea31, notquitethere
IcyTea31: Toaster, TricMagic
Jim Groovester: Vector
Toaster: ToonyMan, webadict
TricMagic: 4maskwolf
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 02:57:02 pm
Great. Copypasta comes to B12.Okay so you have no interest in engaging with anything outside of your preconceived notions.
Acknowledged.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 03:00:01 pm
Fuck it, I hate this. If someone has a daykill, please take him out so he doesn't get to win as a jester (if that's somehow what this is). Otherwise, 4maskwolf.
Yes, it's a policy lynch, and no, I don't care.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:01:04 pm
*throws up hands*Let's see if I follow.
Fuck it, I hate this. If someone has a daykill, please take him out so he doesn't get to win as a jester (if that's somehow what this is). Otherwise, 4maskwolf.
Yes, it's a policy lynch, and no, I don't care.
I make a case on TolyK.
You claim I'm refusing to further the town's wincon.
I point out that that's wrong.
You mock me.
I shrug and move on with my life.
You policy lynch me.
Thank you, very cool.
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2021, 03:01:50 pm
ToasterYou probably saw this coming. Did you expect this?Absolutely. In fact, it would have been most interesting if you'd picked someone else, since then I'd have asked why you picked them in particular. Why did you pick the boring option?
Short on time, so I went for the quick and easy option. I have a better option now anyway.
TricMagic:
You didn't read the second post that quoted that one, did you IcyTea? And I claimed that for an easy confirm. Or just ignore me, either is good. At least I'm not a miller this time. Either way, won't be going anywhere at night, so might as well use my vote IcyTea. What's the point of those questions you are asking? They feel wrong to me on an instinctive level.
Why so earnest to be confirmed on day one?
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 03:02:26 pm
BluarianKnight: You're the only one here I haven't played with before. Should I consider you dangerous?Unique choice of words - dangerous.
Yeah, I'd probably be someone to worry about, IcyTea31.
BluarianKnight: Don't believe I've played a game with you. How would you describe your playstyle in one sentence?Wary but Thorough, that would be by non-weird answer.
IcyTea31 - Which person here would worry you the most of they were scum?
4maskwolf - Why are you openly claiming survivor D1? All this does is paint you as a jester-sort, or else trying to mask your real role.
Vector - Are you more wary of lurkers or active debate-posters?
Toony and Webadict - You're both on the chopping block, and you only have your own vote left - who do you vote to die, yourself or your companion, and why?
TricMagic - Do you think roleclaiming D1 is a good idea, for any role? Why or why not?
Toaster - What do you think of the immediate group-vote on you?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:04:57 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:07:14 pm
4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 03:11:20 pm
Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:12:10 pm
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:14:22 pm
Indeed.Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
I ask because given your experience level it seems like parroting webadict on the whole "jester" thing. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:16:43 pm
@BK:Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:20:33 pm
Like, I'm gonna be real with you: way I see it survivor with no powers is always a coinflip. Either that or I just do my best "not playing the game" impression to skate by to endgame and win with whichever team comes out on top, which doesn't seem like fun. So I decided to take the coinflip early: either people believe me and I get left alone, allowing me more freedom to play the game since the scum now has no reason to kill me, or people don't believe me and I die early and save myself a week or more of trying to skate by with the bare minimum amount of content.@BK:Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:22:22 pm
Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?There's a pro-town reason.
Scum aren't going to target a survivor at night. They'll know you're probably telling the truth which sucks for us, the actual targets.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 03:23:55 pm
Indeed.Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
I ask because given your experience level it seems like parroting webadict on the whole "jester" thing. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
Parroting? I'm not repeating him - he brings up the same point, but I'm not asking the same question here. I'm asking if you're hiding your role, not just if you're a jester.
Good try on trying to avoid the question, but I'll ask again;
Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 03:25:44 pm
@BK:*gasp*! I am betrayed. But also, fair.
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
@BK: See, the problem with that question is that it pries too far into what I do or don't know, and it has an obvious answer regardless. But, I'd like to counter that I'd rather not answer that question on the grounds that it might or might not reveal role information that I may or may not have. What's your counterplay to that?
@4mask: What does this have to do with Vector?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:26:39 pm
I suppose.Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?There's a pro-town reason.
Scum aren't going to target a survivor at night. They'll know you're probably telling the truth which sucks for us, the actual targets.
I didn't think of it in those terms, but I did think of it in terms of "if the wolves believe me they won't kill me unless I have god-tier reads".
I already explained this, like, several times. It's a bad question because it's already been answered.Indeed.Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
I ask because given your experience level it seems like parroting webadict on the whole "jester" thing. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
Parroting? I'm not repeating him - he brings up the same point, but I'm not asking the same question here. I'm asking if you're hiding your role, not just if you're a jester.
Good try on trying to avoid the question, but I'll ask again;
Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
What does what have to do with Vector? My play? Nothing, specifically, except those posts in response to them and about them, which is what I was referencing previously.@BK:*gasp*! I am betrayed. But also, fair.
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
@BK: See, the problem with that question is that it pries too far into what I do or don't know, and it has an obvious answer regardless. But, I'd like to counter that I'd rather not answer that question on the grounds that it might or might not reveal role information that I may or may not have. What's your counterplay to that?
@4mask: What does this have to do with Vector?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:27:47 pm
Also like.Indeed.Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
I ask because given your experience level it seems like parroting webadict on the whole "jester" thing. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
Parroting? I'm not repeating him - he brings up the same point, but I'm not asking the same question here. I'm asking if you're hiding your role, not just if you're a jester.
Good try on trying to avoid the question, but I'll ask again;
Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
What scent would there be to throw people off of.
Nobody could possibly have any kind of trail on me when I hadn't even posted yet.
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2021, 03:35:14 pm
In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time. So you can read over the previous games to learn what might be out there and what they can do.
I don't remember any Supernatural there's been an actual jester, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:37:34 pm
There have been survivors though. Toaster got ressed as one after dying, I believe you had an ability too no?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:38:28 pm
I don't believe there's ever been a Jester no.If it's helpful, my role is wererat.
There have been survivors though. Toaster got ressed as one after dying, I believe you had an ability too no?
Post by: Toaster on February 23, 2021, 03:41:08 pm
BluarianKnight: Don't believe I've played a game with you. How would you describe your playstyle in one sentence?Wary but Thorough, that would be by non-weird answer.
Toaster - What do you think of the immediate group-vote on you?
Fair enough on playstyle.
It's irrelevant; it's happened before and meant nothing. I saw it coming, even.
4mask:
Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?
Is there a particular reason you should? Not claiming is the default state; claiming is taking action to change this.
ToonyMan:
Meph said there are no new roles...In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time. So you can read over the previous games to learn what might be out there and what they can do.
I don't remember any Supernatural there's been an actual jester, but please correct me if I am wrong.
I got ressed into Lone Vampire; I had a block that killed if I used it two nights in a row on the same target. 3 and 5 started with a Wererat; a survivor with no abilities. PPE yes, that one.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:43:07 pm
4mask:I mean I already talked about my logic behind it literally the post after the one you quoted. tl;dr: If it works I'm probably good, means I don't have to slank the entire game away to ensure my survival.Is there a particular reason I shouldn't claim on my first post?
Is there a particular reason you should? Not claiming is the default state; claiming is taking action to change this.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:45:40 pm
What do you think, Vector? BK?
You two switched votes before even letting your original vote questions get answered.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:48:14 pm
TolyK open claiming VT (or maybe sexton or sage or knight but it felt like a VT claim) is sus, it's an anti-wincon claim and also makes very little sense in general.
I'm feeling town on Toaster for silly meta reasons.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:49:36 pm
Lolmask.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 03:55:14 pm
Vector - Are you more wary of lurkers or active debate-posters?
The latter.
With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
I say TolyK but I mean TricMagic.
This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 03:55:36 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 03:57:21 pm
I don't copypasta except for comedy. The sheeping copypasta? Makes people on MU laugh. Responding to someone with annoyance? Why would I make a copypasta of that.Vector - Are you more wary of lurkers or active debate-posters?
The latter.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.I say TolyK but I mean TricMagic.
This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.
Also, like, why would I ever copy-paste stuff from game to game?
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 04:18:28 pm
To answer BK's question, first day roleclaims are a bit iffy. Millers who claim first-post are typically seen as town, since they'd investigate anyway. But you still want to lynch them if they happen to be lying, so WIFOM. My claim today is pretty simple, I can't actually do anything, so VT is about as close as it gets. Once again, I could be lying, so WIFOM. That's the way it is.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 04:20:29 pm
I'm willing to believe 4mask for now, while his claim hurts us at night it does remove a lynch candidate for today.
What do you think, Vector? BK?
You two switched votes before even letting your original vote questions get answered.
I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.
Unvote.
@BK:*gasp*! I am betrayed. But also, fair.
Definitely Web. I know I'm town but I don't know if they are...
@4mask:
The anti-town behavior and claiming on your first post, yes.
@BK: See, the problem with that question is that it pries too far into what I do or don't know, and it has an obvious answer regardless. But, I'd like to counter that I'd rather not answer that question on the grounds that it might or might not reveal role information that I may or may not have. What's your counterplay to that?
@4mask: What does this have to do with Vector?
I'll ask a smarter question, then. If you had a daykill you could only use today, who'd you use it on, as town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 04:24:21 pm
-squints-I'm willing to believe 4mask for now, while his claim hurts us at night it does remove a lynch candidate for today.
What do you think, Vector? BK?
You two switched votes before even letting your original vote questions get answered.
I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.
Unvote.
Your last you were screaming to the heavens that I was dodging the question and insinuating that my claim was to "throw people off my scent" and now you're just unvoting and pretending nothing happened, just "I made my point".
What gives.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 04:29:40 pm
I'm not. It's just that mechanically, my role doesn't really help me. I've only got my vote to really do anything.Got it.
Guess that would have made Day 1 too easy...
This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.
I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.Hmhmhm.
Unvote.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 04:30:12 pm
I know, right?I'm not. It's just that mechanically, my role doesn't really help me. I've only got my vote to really do anything.Got it.
Guess that would have made Day 1 too easy...This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.Hmhmhm.
Unvote.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 04:30:36 pm
EBWOP for clarity.I know, right?This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.Hmhmhm.
Unvote.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 04:34:13 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 04:34:57 pm
Any other survivors want to come out today? I think you would be benefiting town greatly if you did so.You really don't want to believe my claim do you?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 04:41:19 pm
You're looking at this the wrong way.Any other survivors want to come out today? I think you would be benefiting town greatly if you did so.You really don't want to believe my claim do you?
If nobody comes forward I'm very willing to believe your claim. This helps town lynch scum because we wouldn't be lynching you. I would say it's unlikely you don't win this game.
If somebody else comes forward I will be voting one of you two. There is a very high probability one of you is lying scum. If you're legit and mafia decide to gamble the odds that's their move.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 04:43:12 pm
I actually did get it, I just wanted to make sure that was where you were headed before I said this.You're looking at this the wrong way.Any other survivors want to come out today? I think you would be benefiting town greatly if you did so.You really don't want to believe my claim do you?
If nobody comes forward I'm very willing to believe your claim. This helps town lynch scum because we wouldn't be lynching you. I would say it's unlikely you don't win this game.
If somebody else comes forward I will be voting one of you two. There is a very high probability one of you is lying scum. If you're legit and mafia decide to gamble the odds that's their move.
Toony is towncore.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 04:53:55 pm
Is becoming Townvore that easy for you?
Not only that, but look at it from a Survivor's point of view: What would they gain by ccing? Nothing but a chance to either: 1) get eliminated, or 2) get on the bad side of scum.
Why are all your insights level 0?
Post by: juicebox on February 23, 2021, 04:54:56 pm
Toony: So what's the plan this time? How do we break this setup?
IcyTea: I plan on finding scum and lynching them D2 instead.
Bluarian Knight: Do you believe TricMagic's claim?
Toaster: Supposing there is a cult, how do we out them?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 04:58:42 pm
Is becoming Townvore that easy for you?Om nom.
Not only that, but look at it from a Survivor's point of view: What would they gain by ccing? Nothing but a chance to either: 1) get eliminated, or 2) get on the bad side of scum.You think scum will want to waste a kill on a claimed survivor? No way.
If there's a legit survivor out there, I promise I'll do my best to suss out whether it's 4mask or you that's lying. You will have a much higher chance of winning if you speak up and reveal scum, then staying quiet.
Toony: So what's the plan this time? How do we break this setup?By having a survivor claim apparently.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 05:09:54 pm
I don't copypasta except for comedy. The sheeping copypasta? Makes people on MU laugh. Responding to someone with annoyance? Why would I make a copypasta of that.
Also, like, why would I ever copy-paste stuff from game to game?
I assumed it was something like copy-pasting stuff that I said in an old game in a similar situation for humor purposes (given that TolyK was a long time ago). Is this a dumb interpretation? Yeah,
*shrug*, look, all I'm saying is that I went off onto one of my crazy left-field interpretations of what you were doing. I'm willing to cop to it when I've made a mistake.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 05:11:01 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 05:11:20 pm
EBWOP for clarity.I know, right?I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.Hmhmhm.
Unvote.
Because my suspicions were proven incorrect - there's no jester role, past previous beliefs. I'll admit to that, so I dropped the vote. I won't bark up a tree if I know I'm wrong.
Also like.Indeed.Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
I ask because given your experience level it seems like parroting webadict on the whole "jester" thing. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
Parroting? I'm not repeating him - he brings up the same point, but I'm not asking the same question here. I'm asking if you're hiding your role, not just if you're a jester.
Good try on trying to avoid the question, but I'll ask again;
Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
What scent would there be to throw people off of.
Nobody could possibly have any kind of trail on me when I hadn't even posted yet.
Bad wording on my part, I'll concede to that point. Still, avoiding the question with another question was bad play in my eyes, so I barked up that tree.
Didn't find anything I considered scum, so I decided to drop it for now.
Bluarian Knight: Do you believe TricMagic's claim?
I don't think he's lying - from what I've read and seen on Tric, he's crazy enough to be genuinely pulling this claim.
Doesn't mean I won't watch him, but.. yeah, I think it's legitimate.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 05:14:55 pm
@4mask: I'm sorry, what? Why would scum claim to kill the survivor? That's a dumb move if ever I saw one, and you should know that as a Survivor.Scum wouldn't claim to kill a survivor unless they strongly believed I wasn't, since if I flipped not-survivor it would clear them.
Is becoming Townvore that easy for you?
Not only that, but look at it from a Survivor's point of view: What would they gain by ccing? Nothing but a chance to either: 1) get eliminated, or 2) get on the bad side of scum.
Why are all your insights level 0?
I'm towncoring Toonyman not for the specifics of his take but for the thought process behind it: as a wolf he would know I'm not a member of the scumteam, so fishing for counterclaims to see if I'm scum is a pointless endeavor and implicitly accusing Vector and Blue as being my scumbuddies is a ridiculous bit of theatre. The whole thing, in fact, would be a ridiculous bit of theatre. I'm not going to say it's outside of Toony's wolf range to do it because I think he's a good enough player to fake those thoughts but on top of us mindmelding over "those unvotes are a bad look" (although it seems for different reasons) I'm willing to extend my trust to him today.
It's not like he's "locktown never rescinding lol", but short of him claiming wolf I'm not going there today.
Also why are all my insights level 0? I'm sorry, have you played with me before? I am the king of bad level 0 takes. I was like 0/6 on wolves D1 of the team game, this shouldn't be a surprise to you.
Also "a real survivor wouldn't counterclaim" isn't as unlikely as Toony makes it out to be, but if I'm a wolf fakeclaiming and they counterclaim me I think my wolf team has bigger concerns than petty revenge on a no-ability survivor they could potentially strongarm into giving them the win in LYLO.
Oh I understand now. Yeah I did say TolyK there too, didn't I. Just for future reference I wouldn't do that, it comes off a little too much like mockery to use someone's annoyed posts straight to their face as a "joke".I don't copypasta except for comedy. The sheeping copypasta? Makes people on MU laugh. Responding to someone with annoyance? Why would I make a copypasta of that.
Also, like, why would I ever copy-paste stuff from game to game?
I assumed it was something like copy-pasting stuff that I said in an old game in a similar situation for humor purposes (given that TolyK was a long time ago). Is this a dumb interpretation? Yeah,
*shrug*, look, all I'm saying is that I went off onto one of my crazy left-field interpretations of what you were doing. I'm willing to cop to it when I've made a mistake.
I was just ticked off because it felt like you were doing the same thing the people in Team Mafia did, where they completely ignored everything I did and pretended I'd made no cases all game and then mocking me when I objected. I didn't think you were doing it intentionally but it did kinda sting.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 05:24:32 pm
The point isn't that it's a bad plan from you, Toony. It costs you literally nothing, and it is beneficial to you regardless of your alignment. It's a bad plan from 4mask's perspective, regardless of their alignment, and a bad plan from any other player's perspective to claim, and 4mask using it as reasoning for you being Town is a level 0 read from them.
@4mask: No, a Survivor doesn't counterclaim because they get Thunderdomed, and then it's "essentially" a 50:50 to lose, not even win. It's a shit-tier play, and it's better to lay low until later.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 05:29:58 pm
I thought you were RiA-ing with a bunch of posts about someone who wasn't in the game to piss me off.I believe this part at least.
@4maskwolf:
Why do you keep saying the mafia are wolves? I don't think this is confirmed anywhere.
@Webadict:
@4mask: No, a Survivor doesn't counterclaim because they get Thunderdomed, and then it's "essentially" a 50:50 to lose, not even win. It's a shit-tier play, and it's better to lay low until later.What do you think the odds are that 4mask is telling the truth?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 05:33:03 pm
Yeah, my phone keyboard sucks...Why would a non-survivor counterclaim me? The answer is they wouldn't, unless the non-survivor was convinced I was a survivor. If I'm not a survivor, counterclaiming me as survivor isn't 50/50, it's like 95:5 if people are paying attention to the motives behind the action (counterclaiming me and I flip survivor is suicide for literally 0 benefit).
The point isn't that it's a bad plan from you, Toony. It costs you literally nothing, and it is beneficial to you regardless of your alignment. It's a bad plan from 4mask's perspective, regardless of their alignment, and a bad plan from any other player's perspective to claim, and 4mask using it as reasoning for you being Town is a level 0 read from them.
@4mask: No, a Survivor doesn't counterclaim because they get Thunderdomed, and then it's "essentially" a 50:50 to lose, not even win. It's a shit-tier play, and it's better to lay low until later.
It's also why I'm comfortable nobody will, in fact, counterclaim, because it's a meaningless suicide play.
@4maskwolf:The default on MU is "wolves" rather than "scum" and I've kinda picked it up since I've played a bunch of games there recently.
Why do you keep saying the mafia are wolves? I don't think this is confirmed anywhere.
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 05:38:09 pm
@4maskwolf:The default on MU is "wolves" rather than "scum" and I've kinda picked it up since I've played a bunch of games there recently.
Why do you keep saying the mafia are wolves? I don't think this is confirmed anywhere.
^ I'm willing to confirm this part. I'm pretty sure 4mask just means scum.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 05:46:12 pm
@Webadict:4mask is definitely a survivor, and if they're not, they put a timer on themselves. But, I suppose I'm wasting effort on arguing with them because their wincon is to sitback and do nothing anyway, and I'm clearly not paying enough attention.@4mask: No, a Survivor doesn't counterclaim because they get Thunderdomed, and then it's "essentially" a 50:50 to lose, not even win. It's a shit-tier play, and it's better to lay low until later.What do you think the odds are that 4mask is telling the truth?
Samesies@4maskwolf:The default on MU is "wolves" rather than "scum" and I've kinda picked it up since I've played a bunch of games there recently.
Why do you keep saying the mafia are wolves? I don't think this is confirmed anywhere.
^ I'm willing to confirm this part. I'm pretty sure 4mask just means scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2021, 05:47:28 pm
-grumble-@Webadict:4mask is definitely a survivor, and if they're not, they put a timer on themselves. But, I suppose I'm wasting effort on arguing with them because their wincon is to sitback and do nothing anyway, and I'm clearly not paying enough attention.@4mask: No, a Survivor doesn't counterclaim because they get Thunderdomed, and then it's "essentially" a 50:50 to lose, not even win. It's a shit-tier play, and it's better to lay low until later.What do you think the odds are that 4mask is telling the truth?Samesies@4maskwolf:The default on MU is "wolves" rather than "scum" and I've kinda picked it up since I've played a bunch of games there recently.
Why do you keep saying the mafia are wolves? I don't think this is confirmed anywhere.
^ I'm willing to confirm this part. I'm pretty sure 4mask just means scum.
I'm trying to scumhunt and townhunt, y'know. The fact that I'm a survivor doesn't actually mean I'm faking it.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 08:54:32 pm
Townlean
BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.
TricMagic: Townlean. Feels like they're doing some weird ploy. Idk, not gonna think about it. But I genuinely believe that this is a Town!Tric, and hopefully I'm getting better at reading them. Definitely feel better than I did during CYOMafia, that's for sure.
IcyTea31: Generally insightful and active. 4mask hates their questions, and I agree, but I'd still rather have something than nothing. Still, reminds me of BYOR 15 Icy, and so I'll keep them up here. Feels kinda eh-y, but... I dunno, call it intuition.
Null
ToonyMan: Starting off in true Toony spirit with a Townlean, but whatcha gonna do? I guess I'll just get fleeced by ToonyMan again. Actually, as I'm reading through this, I'm gonna move them down to null. I am mostly doing this to spite 4maskwolf, and also because I don't believe that ToonyMan actually earned a space up in the Townlean section. If 4maskwolf hadn't said anything, I'd actually have them higher. Overall, I do like their play, and I'm expecting a lot more in short order, as they usually do.
Toaster: Ehhh... Could go either way on this one. Haven't really seen enough of them, but the parts I did see sorta rang towards town. I'll keep them here for good measure. Not really a fan of their work so far.
Luckyowl: Hasn't
Secretdorf: Posted
Jim Groovester: Yet
Scumlean
juicebox: Wtf, where did juicebox come from? I have seen nothing from them, and that truly makes them scummy. I will always eliminate them if they have the least number of posts.
notquitethere: Here's my problem with this read. I actually don't fully trust it, because usually scum!NQT is more townie to me. But, gut lean towards scum because they haven't been super active. But, that's like the opposite of how I usually feel, so maybe I'm biased on this one... Eh.
Vector: Scumread. Even less a fan of their posting than I usually am, but their attack on 4maskwolf felt manufactured, and their quick jumps back to Jim Groovester was... Really, really weird. I think the frustration is real, but I don't believe that the attack is, and even factoring in the fact that 4mask said TolyK, I simply don't believe it at the moment. After re-reading, I'm still not convinced that they know what's they're trying to hammer in on, and I'm poking their buttons here like I usually do.
Third Party
4maskwolf: Is it worth it to engage with them? No.
Quote
I'll ask a smarter question, then. If you had a daykill you could only use today, who'd you use it on, as town?Oops, missed this question: 4maskwolf, because they're a liability.
Post by: Secretdorf on February 23, 2021, 09:18:16 pm
4maskwolf is mafia, probably.
Tricmagic is mafia, too, probably. Because I don't see how claiming VT will help us. At least, mafia would have killed you instead of a PR. And you say we should waste a track on you?
Webadict is mafia, too, probably.
Toonyman is mafia, too, probably.
Toaster is town, probably.
Icytea is mafia, too, probably.
Post by: TricMagic on February 23, 2021, 09:21:05 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 09:23:31 pm
ToonyMan: Starting off in true Toony spirit with a Townlean, but whatcha gonna do? I guess I'll just get fleeced by ToonyMan again.Don't worry I fully expect to be the N1 convert if it exists, just a warning.
Unvote Toaster because they probably aren't scum yet.
I'm scumreading NQT, BlueKnight, and Vector right now.
NQT feels like MVM2 mafia!NQT to me right now with their first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251816#msg8251816). I expect better from them, we'll see.
I think BK and Vector are scummy based of their responses with me and 4mask.
I would like to see Luckyowl, Secretdorf, and Jim post.
PPE:
Well there's Secret.
Wow your reads are bad Secret. 5 mafia? Including the claimed survivor?
Post by: Vector on February 23, 2021, 09:57:43 pm
Where's the vitriol? Where's the uncertainty? The verve? "Even less a fan of my posting than you usually are?" Bullshit. You know you've never said that, and you know that you usually don't need to manufacture a scum read on me to come poke my buttons. Scumadict lacks the playfulness and sharpness of town webadict.
Also, proud of you for practicing pocketing on the noob. Better luck next time, nerd.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 23, 2021, 10:06:52 pm
4maskwolf: IcyTea31, notquitethere
IcyTea31: TricMagic
Luckyowl: Secretdorf
notquitethere: ToonyMan
TricMagic: 4maskwolf, Toaster
Vector: webadict
webadict: Vector
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 23, 2021, 11:32:34 pm
TOWN
TricMagic - Town. I've seen his townplay, and I've read his townplay. I got the feeling he's just on a bold streak - or maybe just super off-kilter, but I think he's town-lean.
Vector - While I've never played with her, I've seen/read enough to get the feeling, at least for now, that they're townlean. Might changge my vote at a later date.
UNSURE
Toony - Can't get a bead on at the moment.
Secrefdorf - No good read either, but I'm watching close!
SCUM:
IcyTea31 - His first questions had plenty that were, at least to me, too pointed and aggressive for scumhunting. Scumleaning.
Webadict - While I feel Vector is playing to what I've seen them do as Towny, Web gives me the opposite vibes - something's off - the buddying thing is sort of similar, but now I feel that's purposeful. I dunno, might change my mind once I do a second re-read. I do like the compliment though!
NOT WORTH MY TIME:
4mask: A giant ball of WIFOM that I don't think is worth my time trying to decipher at this point. I won't scumhunt him, mostly as I've seen how that derails. Going to put my vote down on this when we get more info.
I'll get around to my feelings on everyone later, but for now, I'll toss my hat on IcyTea31.
Post by: webadict on February 23, 2021, 11:38:19 pm
Webadict, you really need to up your scum game.Oh dear heavens me. Take mine wrists, cuff them, and do lead me to the local constabulary for I hath virtued.
Where's the vitriol? Where's the uncertainty? The verve? "Even less a fan of my posting than you usually are?" Bullshit. You know you've never said that, and you know that you usually don't need to manufacture a scum read on me to come poke my buttons. Scumadict lacks the playfulness and sharpness of town webadict.
Also, proud of you for practicing pocketing on the noob. Better luck next time, nerd.
No, wait, I can do better. Hold on, let me clear my throat.
Vector, you always move me in the right direction. You are a joy to be around, a ray of sunshine. Your intellect is boundless, unwavering, and whenever you correct me, I enjoy it as a new opportunity to learn things, to change the trajectory of my life. :D This is a smiley face, and it is for you because I can hardly hold back a grin when I think of things that confuse you, to send you down a new track, for the sheer fact that the tables had been turned. A clash without a route. A battle without blood. I would give you a hug, but I feel that would, of course, potentially be inappropriate, as well as an unwanted invasion of personal space but know that today is a day of sheer youthful ambition, and that should these affectations truly hit your heart (as I do so aim for them to), know that I come bearing happiness of a magnitude without limit.
Forsooth, there is no vitriol laden within these words. Ersatz they may be, but cruel? Nay. There'd be no point.
Luckyowl, you better be mafia this time.Alright, put Secretdorf in the scumlean for that one.
4maskwolf is mafia, probably.
Tricmagic is mafia, too, probably. Because I don't see how claiming VT will help us. At least, mafia would have killed you instead of a PR. And you say we should waste a track on you?
Webadict is mafia, too, probably.
Toonyman is mafia, too, probably.
Toaster is town, probably.
Icytea is mafia, too, probably.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 23, 2021, 11:39:58 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 23, 2021, 11:43:46 pm
Curiosity question, Bluarian: What's your previous mafia experience, excluding ongoing games? I haven't played with you before.4mask, I'm memeing because I don't have access to a personal computer right now and can't properly type a big post. I genuinely don't understand your actions beyond fulfilling your hope of being dead before March 8th. Why? I don't believe you'd act like this as mafia.With regard to what, specifically? The memes? Meh, mostly because I want to, and because the things I meme-respond to generally aren't worthy of a response. My response to Vector? I don't think they're doing it intentionally, but Vector has managed to take the worst aspects of the way MU treats me and applied it here, so I'm a little ticked atm.
In this format exactly? Not much. I'm new - albeit my experience in Mafia in other formats isn't completely lacking, and I'm decent at social deduction.
My only other B12 Mafia is Vengeful Mafia 14 - which should be finishing up in a day or two.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I derped prettty)Post by: ToonyMan on February 23, 2021, 11:51:36 pm
I am present and also town.Okay, great.
Got anything else? I'll be nice and wait for your teammates to tell you what to do.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 23, 2021, 11:55:11 pm
I am present and also town.Okay, great.
Got anything else? I'll be nice and wait for your teammates to tell you what to do.
did your scum team told you to say that? or are you going rogue?
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 23, 2021, 11:57:07 pm
I've got an important meeting tomorrow I probably need to spend more time preparing for so I'm not going to play super serious today but I'll answer questions and poke at some stuff.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 12:10:10 am
Oh dear heavens me. Take mine wrists, cuff them, and do lead me to the local constabulary for I hath virtued.
No, wait, I can do better. Hold on, let me clear my throat.
Vector, you always move me in the right direction. You are a joy to be around, a ray of sunshine. Your intellect is boundless, unwavering, and whenever you correct me, I enjoy it as a new opportunity to learn things, to change the trajectory of my life. :D This is a smiley face, and it is for you because I can hardly hold back a grin when I think of things that confuse you, to send you down a new track, for the sheer fact that the tables had been turned. A clash without a route. A battle without blood. I would give you a hug, but I feel that would, of course, potentially be inappropriate, as well as an unwanted invasion of personal space but know that today is a day of sheer youthful ambition, and that should these affectations truly hit your heart (as I do so aim for them to), know that I come bearing happiness of a magnitude without limit.
Forsooth, there is no vitriol laden within these words. Ersatz they may be, but cruel? Nay. There'd be no point.
i will bite u
you're still scum >:V
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 12:13:40 am
I'm freelance currently, but I wouldn't mind a steady position if you're interested.did your scum team told you to say that? or are you going rogue?I am present and also town.Okay, great.
Got anything else? I'll be nice and wait for your teammates to tell you what to do.
Yes, I will eventually post.Got it.
I've got an important meeting tomorrow I probably need to spend more time preparing for so I'm not going to play super serious today but I'll answer questions and poke at some stuff.
i will bite uI'm not seeing it, Vector.
you're still scum >:V
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 12:29:19 am
i will bite uYes, but do you bite your thumb at me?
you're still scum >:V
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 12:45:52 am
Jim Groovester: How can I best convince you to read at least the parts addressed to you if I make lengthier posts?
You don't have to do anything since you're not an obnoxious WoTer.
OH LOL I thought you were Toaster when I was answering this.
Yeah just like try to not be an overly tedious and pedantic poster I guess. The goal of the game is to convince people to vote with you, not to have impenetrable, infallible cases.
Jim G: Let's assume you're a cult leader of whatever flavor. How do you pick your converts? Would you pick me again for the WIFOM?
The smart answer is that I would pick people who would help me win but the answer I am going to give is the people who would be funnest to have on my team.
Yes, of course I would, Toaster.
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.
Lynch you?
My run specifically. But any tracker in the group could see the truth. How does my one post seem a decent place to start?
Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that. Can't track or investigate or bus or anything. Unless I'm lying to cover up a more powerful role. (Just posting without thinking there. So you know that post wasn't coached at all given the number of experienced players in this game.)
Why are you inviting people to spend their night actions on you as if that would prove anything about you?
Jim Groovester. How's life? Did you roll scum again?
It's fantastic.
Nope, town again. Maybe this time I'll actually have a chance to play instead of putting effort into a game and then getting a free win like in CYOM4. Not that I'm mad about winning though.
UNDEFEATED SINCE HIS RETURN
THE GLORY DAYS ARE NOW
This is why I thought you were just copy-pasta-ing from other games. Back to Jim Groovester.
I'm trying Vector just give me some time to you know go to my job come back home eat something and then assemble a post
Webadict, you really need to up your scum game.
Where's the vitriol? Where's the uncertainty? The verve? "Even less a fan of my posting than you usually are?" Bullshit. You know you've never said that, and you know that you usually don't need to manufacture a scum read on me to come poke my buttons. Scumadict lacks the playfulness and sharpness of town webadict.
Also, proud of you for practicing pocketing on the noob. Better luck next time, nerd.
Sometimes I get the impression you're playing five years in the past.
Not that this is actually relevant to anything but webadict has been a pretty chill dude from my observations of how he's played since my glorious return.
By and large I can't actually figure out why you voted any of the targets you voted, except for me since you were waiting on an RVS response.
4maskwolf
What's your plan for survival? Do you intend to be useful to town, or just rely on there being better lynch targets?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I thought you were making a joke about not having a plan since I don't see the image you're actually linking to.
BluarianKnight: Don't believe I've played a game with you. How would you describe your playstyle in one sentence?Wary but Thorough, that would be by non-weird answer.
I like this.
Sorry for the wait - let's do this. 8)BluarianKnight: You're the only one here I haven't played with before. Should I consider you dangerous?Unique choice of words - dangerous.
Yeah, I'd probably be someone to worry about, IcyTea31.
I don't like this.
Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
I like this even less.
I've never played with you so I don't know if this is typical for you but you look like you're trying too hard.
I'm willing to believe 4mask for now, while his claim hurts us at night it does remove a lynch candidate for today.
What do you think, Vector? BK?
You two switched votes before even letting your original vote questions get answered.
I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.
Unvote.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this makes me uneasy.
I am present and also town.
You know I would argue with this just to be funny but I actually can't.
Anyways, I'm three beers in tonight so I'm going to sing to the Attack On Titan soundtrack and go to bed. My comprehension of the most recent parts of the thread dropped as my alcohol intake increased so I'm going to have to revisit this tomorrow.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 04:19:59 am
Wait, you were calling yourself scummy? That's my mistake, then. I'd still like you to try to follow up on those instincts, perhaps by asking a question which requires an alignment-specific answer?My run specifically.Icytea. I get it was just after, but one could pay attention. I'l forgive you, if only because I'm coming off a finishing post in Vengeful. And instincts are very useful in a social game, it's how you determine something is wrong with how things are worded. Or logic, but in that case I'll go with instinct until proper logic appears to fault that instinct.
Vector
I mean, if you want my real answer? I'd go back and reread the thread until I had more information on you, the other guy, and the person who started the thunderdome. It depends on what Day it is. It depends on who else is dead and how much information each kill would provide, blah blah blah blah blah for me it's more about context than about any one person involved and without that context the question doesn't give viable information about my ge-new-eye-N thought process.To be honest, I expected your answer to be along the lines of not wanting to say you'd shoot me to my face, or anyone's but a faceless "other guy". At the time I asked the original question, there was little to reread, little to make that contextual decision beyond what you know about me from the past. The question thus becomes "Do you trust me?" and "Would you dare to say to my face that you don't trust me?" Let's move this to another context: endgame: me you, and a faceless third person. Which is more important, what we say then, or what we said before then?
But you know that.
BluarianKnight
IcyTea31 - Which person here would worry you the most of they were scum?Definitely notquitethere. He's the type of player who's well capable of pulling a genealogical account of why I, my mother, and my mother's mother are all scum out of nowhere. Even though in that situation I'd know it was false, I'd have to do a similar amount of analysis and work to prove that to the other players.
IcyTea31 - His first questions had plenty that were, at least to me, too pointed and aggressive for scumhunting. Scumleaning.First time I've been called scum for that, BluarianKnight. How do you scumhunt without asking pointed and aggressive questions?
Quote
Web gives me the opposite vibes - something's off - the buddying thing is sort of similarWhich buddying thing? Surely not the part where I opened my game with a joking accusation?
juicebox
IcyTea: I plan on finding scum and lynching them D2 instead.Let's assume there's good town play from other players and scum gets lynched on D1, but you can't quite take credit for it. Where do you start looking for scum on D2?
Secretdorf
Luckyowl, you better be mafia this time.Wanna narrow that down a bit? Surely there aren't 6 scum in a 13-player game, especially one with a claimed third party?
4maskwolf is mafia, probably.
Tricmagic is mafia, too, probably. Because I don't see how claiming VT will help us. At least, mafia would have killed you instead of a PR. And you say we should waste a track on you?
Webadict is mafia, too, probably.
Toonyman is mafia, too, probably.
Toaster is town, probably.
Icytea is mafia, too, probably.
Jim Groovester
The smart answer is that I would pick people who would help me win but the answer I am going to give is the people who would be funnest to have on my team.Names, Jim. Who would it be funniest to have on your team?
webadict
Pretty good conrent so far.
Feels kinda eh-y, but... I dunno, call it intuition.Is my content "pretty good" or "kinda eh-y"?
General reads:
Webadict and Vector's spat seems genuine, probably not both scum.
This isn't quite how TricMagic has acted in the past when unenthusiastic about their role, though it is better performance than expected. Possibilities range up to being coached by a scumbuddy, but I'm willing to count it as genuinely improved town play for now.
4maskwolf's survivor claim, if false, is more likely jester than mafia at this point. Trusting for now, since there's a promise of no jesters.
Jim Groovester's opening post matches my thoughts pretty well. The single post leans town, but I'll want more.
Post by: juicebox on February 24, 2021, 06:48:01 am
Alright, it's reads time:
Townlean
BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.
TricMagic: Townlean. Feels like they're doing some weird ploy. Idk, not gonna think about it. But I genuinely believe that this is a Town!Tric, and hopefully I'm getting better at reading them. Definitely feel better than I did during CYOMafia, that's for sure.
IcyTea31: Generally insightful and active. 4mask hates their questions, and I agree, but I'd still rather have something than nothing. Still, reminds me of BYOR 15 Icy, and so I'll keep them up here. Feels kinda eh-y, but... I dunno, call it intuition.
Null
ToonyMan: Starting off in true Toony spirit with a Townlean, but whatcha gonna do? I guess I'll just get fleeced by ToonyMan again. Actually, as I'm reading through this, I'm gonna move them down to null. I am mostly doing this to spite 4maskwolf, and also because I don't believe that ToonyMan actually earned a space up in the Townlean section. If 4maskwolf hadn't said anything, I'd actually have them higher. Overall, I do like their play, and I'm expecting a lot more in short order, as they usually do.
Toaster: Ehhh... Could go either way on this one. Haven't really seen enough of them, but the parts I did see sorta rang towards town. I'll keep them here for good measure. Not really a fan of their work so far.
Luckyowl: Hasn't
Secretdorf: Posted
Jim Groovester: Yet
Scumlean
juicebox: Wtf, where did juicebox come from? I have seen nothing from them, and that truly makes them scummy. I will always eliminate them if they have the least number of posts.
notquitethere: Here's my problem with this read. I actually don't fully trust it, because usually scum!NQT is more townie to me. But, gut lean towards scum because they haven't been super active. But, that's like the opposite of how I usually feel, so maybe I'm biased on this one... Eh.
Vector: Scumread. Even less a fan of their posting than I usually am, but their attack on 4maskwolf felt manufactured, and their quick jumps back to Jim Groovester was... Really, really weird. I think the frustration is real, but I don't believe that the attack is, and even factoring in the fact that 4mask said TolyK, I simply don't believe it at the moment. After re-reading, I'm still not convinced that they know what's they're trying to hammer in on, and I'm poking their buttons here like I usually do.
Third Party
4maskwolf: Is it worth it to engage with them? No.QuoteI'll ask a smarter question, then. If you had a daykill you could only use today, who'd you use it on, as town?Oops, missed this question: 4maskwolf, because they're a liability.
Well i guess I should get my post count up then.
I'll start by saying I believe Tricmagic's claim, they just seem genuine to me.
I think 4mask's claim is a bit more dubious however, especially when you consider the possibility of a 4mask Toaster scumteam.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 08:23:27 am
I feel the exact opposite.
Why Toaster and 4mask together?
Post by: juicebox on February 24, 2021, 08:59:20 am
I don't believe there's ever been a Jester no.If it's helpful, my role is wererat.
There have been survivors though. Toaster got ressed as one after dying, I believe you had an ability too no?
I got ressed into Lone Vampire; I had a block that killed if I used it two nights in a row on the same target. 3 and 5 started with a Wererat; a survivor with no abilities. PPE yes, that one.
It just feels little bit too convenient to me how this happened.
Post by: Secretdorf on February 24, 2021, 08:59:42 am
Games with lots of players are a bit difficult to get into when you are late, but I'll try. First of all, I don't understand why you claimed, tricmagic? How is that supposed to help town in any way?
I think webadict is town this time mostly a gut-read on his reads post which I think was town-motivated. But I have a bad habit of taking people giving reads analysis as town, so I might reconsider that.
Blueknight might be town if I compare his play in this game with the VM. In that game, his posts were filled with explanations. Although, someone might be coaching him. Still, some of his posts are scummy.
I am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.
NQT hasn't posted a lot but I think he is town this time as his posts don't look like he has been constructing townreads on himself.
4mask is probably survivor but I haven't read anything about wererat. What is that?
Toonyman is slight scumlean idk why.
Jim G is probably town or probaly not town ie null.
ICT is townlean.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 09:05:29 am
I say 4mask and Toaster together because of this:I agree that's odd, but I know for a fact Toaster read through all the previous games just like I did because we talked about it before the game started.I don't believe there's ever been a Jester no.If it's helpful, my role is wererat.
There have been survivors though. Toaster got ressed as one after dying, I believe you had an ability too no?I got ressed into Lone Vampire; I had a block that killed if I used it two nights in a row on the same target. 3 and 5 started with a Wererat; a survivor with no abilities. PPE yes, that one.It just feels little bit too convenient to me how this happened.
@Luckyowl:
You feel quite reserved to me. Is NQT not able to guide you while they're away?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 09:12:14 am
>has an important meeting today
>gets hammered while singing about titans the night before
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 09:18:32 am
@Vector: Pocketing the noob? I like that you think I exist in a vacuum, and that I can't expect people to be Town unless they are a noob. I watched all of Vengeful 14 and saw a good player. I watched YellowPixel's play, too. I will say that BK is not really a noob to me. YP is, but BK seems like their experience translates well here, so not exactly a noob. Though, I will correct something I missed yesterday: I meant to type that, within the last few games we've played, I have suspected you as Town, however, this time I feel much more solidly that this assertion is correct, especially since you hardswerved based on that accusation and OMGUSed back.
RE:Jim: Townlean. Their reading of Vector is close enough to mine that I biasedly make them more Town. But, posts also feel typical of Town!Jim, so I'll keep them in Townlean.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 09:40:49 am
I think webadict is town this time mostly a gut-read on his reads post which I think was town-motivated. But I have a bad habit of taking people giving reads analysis as town, so I might reconsider that.What do you mean when you say that the reads post was town-motivated?
Quote
I am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.That's a lot of certainty to find from three posts, none of which say anything.
Quote
NQT hasn't posted a lot but I think he is town this time as his posts don't look like he has been constructing townreads on himself.This is from a single post, which also said very little. Why is one low-poster scum and another town?
webadict
@Icy: Hmmm, don't see the issue there. You can have good content and feel meh. Call it a Townlean on you, and a nullread on your suspects. Does that make more sense?Maybe. My gut is still screaming about you to me. It's been a while since I lasted played with you, but your attitude seems too relaxed for me to trust you right now.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 09:44:12 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 10:15:32 am
Spoiler: Why Tric is a wolf, spoiled so webadict doesn't have an aneurysm (click to show/hide)
Also blue continuing to parrot webadict is a thing.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 10:18:44 am
Unvote, we'll have an idea from the night whether 4mask is an SK or not. No point killing him today when an actual scum team is around.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 10:19:54 am
Sorry haven't been about much. I pulled a muscle in my thigh and haven't wanted to sit in front of a computer for a few days. Taking a trawl back, and also taking a look at the roles in previous games so we know what might be in store.Welcome back NQT.
Unvote, we'll have an idea from the night whether 4mask is an SK or not. No point killing him today when an actual scum team is around.
Speaking of the actual scumteam, got any hot takes for us so far from your trawl?
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 10:42:00 am
I'm assuming this is a reference to Jiokuy's claiming his SK werebear abilities rather than the actual werebear abilities back in Supernatural 7?That was more or less what I was driving at. I see you claimed Wererat. Ok. I can believe this.
Speaking of the actual scumteam, got any hot takes for us so far from your trawl?Webadict's quantum read on me seems genuine. It's true that the last few times I've been scum he's strongly town read me. I don't know that this reflects on his alignment per se, but I don't think he's making that up. Toony voting me after I only made one post is fine, but I'm curious to see where his vote goes after I've actually contributed.
Tric
Tric is openly baiting night actions from town players... I suspect once I've finished looking at the previous roles I might know why...
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.
any tracker in the group could see the truth.
LuckyOwl, tell me something about this setup from the OP.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 10:49:03 am
I don't know about Tric being mafia or not yet. I think they're clearly lying about their role and I think I know why, but I don't want to help scum decide who they're targeting tonight.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 24, 2021, 10:49:29 am
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
IcyTea31: BluarianKnight, TricMagic
Luckyowl: Secretdorf
notquitethere: ToonyMan
TricMagic: 4maskwolf, Toaster
Vector: webadict
webadict: Vector
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 11:01:32 am
4maskIronically Jiokuy’s SK werebear might actually be the answer you’re looking for, I just checked and it could kill anyone who visited it. My personal take is cult leader because it’s inspection immune and if he doesn’t perform the kill he’s “cleared” since there no way to prove he’s not VT.I'm assuming this is a reference to Jiokuy's claiming his SK werebear abilities rather than the actual werebear abilities back in Supernatural 7?That was more or less what I was driving at. I see you claimed Wererat. Ok. I can believe this.Speaking of the actual scumteam, got any hot takes for us so far from your trawl?Webadict's quantum read on me seems genuine. It's true that the last few times I've been scum he's strongly town read me. I don't know that this reflects on his alignment per se, but I don't think he's making that up. Toony voting me after I only made one post is fine, but I'm curious to see where his vote goes after I've actually contributed.
Tric
Tric is openly baiting night actions from town players... I suspect once I've finished looking at the previous roles I might know why...I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.any tracker in the group could see the truth.
LuckyOwl, tell me something about this setup from the OP.
@4mask:I had some thoughts along those lines too and it’s not impossible, but there’s better and safer ways to do pretty much any of the possibilities I thought of. That said I still wouldn’t put them past Tric.
I don't know about Tric being mafia or not yet. I think they're clearly lying about their role and I think I know why, but I don't want to help scum decide who they're targeting tonight.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 11:03:24 am
Quote
That reads post was not a reads post, that was a joke. Never mind that.Minding it. And breaking this down.
Quote
I think webadict is town this time mostly a gut-read on his reads post which I think was town-motivated. But I have a bad habit of taking people giving reads analysis as town, so I might reconsider that.Hmm, quite buddy of you. Except when you say 'eh, maybe not',
Quote
Blueknight might be town if I compare his play in this game with the VM. In that game, his posts were filled with explanations. Although, someone might be coaching him. Still, some of his posts are scummy.Which one? I mean, I saw the same post luckyowl did and deduced he was scummy in Vengeful from it. Not like I could use it there. Very wishy-washy while poking them to be scum.
Quote
I am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.Reasons? Gambler's Fallacy is a thing.
Quote
NQT hasn't posted a lot but I think he is town this time as his posts don't look like he has been constructing townreads on himself.I don't yet have enough on NQT to make a solid read on him. So this fits.
Quote
4mask is probably survivor but I haven't read anything about wererat. What is that?If you were reading all the posts you'd know, someone answered it. To be fair, I'm using this post before reading after it.
Toonyman is slight scumlean idk why.
Why indeed?
Jim G is probably town or probaly not town ie null.
Make up your mind, town, scum, or null-read.
Quote
ICT is townlean.How surprising, the only town-lean in the list. This thing isn't any better than your joke post scumdorf. A whole lot of Nothing expanded from that joke post. And Toaster, your town-read, is also missing from this one. And worst of all, I'm not on it. not really the worst, but it looks freakin wierd. I'll get back to reading the rest.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 11:18:39 am
Side note but I agree that it looks like Secretdorf is fabricating reads rather than making real ones, that read on NQT is interesting in italics.Spoiler: Why Tric is a wolf, spoiled so webadict doesn't have an aneurysm (click to show/hide)
Also blue continuing to parrot webadict is a thing.
Ok... First of all, there is something majorly wrong with my clocks. Did daylight savings time pass over? It's confusing me since my computer reads 10:10 AM. My phone and tablet read an hour ahead meanwhile, and my physical clocks read 10:11 as of now.
Second, I spent this morning finsihing up the last bits of Atelier Ryza, the first game, on my Switch. Switch also has many sales, so I got Assasain's Creed III, aa well Rouge/Black Flag in a combo-deal. And Ni no kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, along with Digimon Cyber Sleuth Complete Edition. And Hollow Realization for something different. Cost me 50 bucks all told? Worth it.
In other news that isn't gaming related, note that this game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 11:23:32 am
It’s interesting that you only discuss one of my points against you, and the one that is far and away the weakest and least reliable, and yet you barely address the only really meaningful part of it which is that your takes seem limp and very focused on people surrounding you. You’ve only hit easy targets that other people were pressuring at the time (Icy for bad questions and secretdorf for being very ??? thus far), and your attempt to tie secretdorf and Icy together into a team is pretty baffling because it relies on ignoring the fact he has two other people he listed as town.Side note but I agree that it looks like Secretdorf is fabricating reads rather than making real ones, that read on NQT is interesting in italics.Spoiler: Why Tric is a wolf, spoiled so webadict doesn't have an aneurysm (click to show/hide)
Also blue continuing to parrot webadict is a thing.
Ok... First of all, there is something majorly wrong with my clocks. Did daylight savings time pass over? It's confusing me since my computer reads 10:10 AM. My phone and tablet read an hour ahead meanwhile, and my physical clocks read 10:11 as of now.
Second, I spent this morning finsihing up the last bits of Atelier Ryza, the first game, on my Switch. Switch also has many sales, so I got Assasain's Creed III, aa well Rouge/Black Flag in a combo-deal. And Ni no kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, along with Digimon Cyber Sleuth Complete Edition. And Hollow Realization for something different. Cost me 50 bucks all told? Worth it.
In other news that isn't gaming related, note that this game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 11:38:24 am
webadict: Slight Town read. Don't expect any analysis on this cause after vengeful my memory on the first day of the game is fuzzy.
Vector: Vector doesn't get a read or a color. Ties to webadict yes, but no color. Null-read.
TricMagic: Naturally I cannot give comments on my own alignment. Ifyou read ths, have a cookie. ;D
ToonyMan: Town read. Previous post says it all, and none of their other posts dispute it for me. [See wuba for explanation there.]
BluarianKnight: Null. Seems town-like. But his voting seems more like taking my advice on using your vote literally and liberally. There is the whole parrot thing 4mask points out. On the whole, I'll tentatively place them as town for the sake of narrowing down the list.
Luckyowl: Town-ish. This will likely solidify as we enter future days with less people.
Secretdorf: Top scum-pick of today. Few posts, a joke post, and a readlist with more scum on it than can fit in this game, and few to no town.
4maskwolf: Survivor, third party wolf throwing shade, or scum. You can decide, but any votes on him won't do much.[I will get to the rest of your post later, it's just that one point I wanted to address while I got going]
Toaster: Null. You, like Vector, don't get any reads. Unlike Vector, you also aren't currently tied to anyone.
juicebox: Null. Like Toaster. I need to see more from you to gain an opinion.
Jim Groovester: How quaint the suspicious people are at the bottom. Lurking, promising more later, you get the jist. Your streak may end, so best get hunting so it doesn't happen.
IcyTea31: Gut instinct that your posts were wrong. And now you are using yours, so... Kinda leaning away from you for now, but you will end up higher if secretdorf is scum.
notquitethere: Still notquitehere. Leaning more to scummyness than towniness, but not to the point you get a blue color.
Previewed, fixed typos and sent. An uncut version for my current feelings on everyone. Enjoy and read, if I ever die it will be useful. If not, still useful, just not confirmed one way or the other.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 11:45:22 am
Looking over this again... 4mask is really red. You're basically poking my for slanking, a word I had to look up as it's slang. Likewise, why delay the post, wouldn't that make it staged and planned? Rather than a wererat, a werewolf seeking to kill others makes sense. And that is not a good look on anyone, let alone a survivor who is likely to die from a mafiakill or get lynched by a mafia-assisted push. By nature, your claim really hurts town worse than a Miller would, as there is no point keeping you around or lynching you. Only you aren't guaranteed to be a survivor.. How many days must you survive to win? Two? Three? Five? How about six or seven. As it stands I see nothing that can really be addressed further in this than already was.It’s interesting that you only discuss one of my points against you, and the one that is far and away the weakest and least reliable, and yet you barely address the only really meaningful part of it which is that your takes seem limp and very focused on people surrounding you. You’ve only hit easy targets that other people were pressuring at the time (Icy for bad questions and secretdorf for being very ??? thus far), and your attempt to tie secretdorf and Icy together into a team is pretty baffling because it relies on ignoring the fact he has two other people he listed as town.Side note but I agree that it looks like Secretdorf is fabricating reads rather than making real ones, that read on NQT is interesting in italics.Spoiler: Why Tric is a wolf, spoiled so webadict doesn't have an aneurysm (click to show/hide)
Also blue continuing to parrot webadict is a thing.
Ok... First of all, there is something majorly wrong with my clocks. Did daylight savings time pass over? It's confusing me since my computer reads 10:10 AM. My phone and tablet read an hour ahead meanwhile, and my physical clocks read 10:11 as of now.
Second, I spent this morning finsihing up the last bits of Atelier Ryza, the first game, on my Switch. Switch also has many sales, so I got Assasain's Creed III, aa well Rouge/Black Flag in a combo-deal. And Ni no kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, along with Digimon Cyber Sleuth Complete Edition. And Hollow Realization for something different. Cost me 50 bucks all told? Worth it.
In other news that isn't gaming related, note that this game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.
Quote
this game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 11:50:35 am
This post makes no sense on a bunch of levels and doesn't actually address the points I made. I said your cases were lazy and bad and you're just leeching off of the thread to get your takes, including after the vengeful game ended. You're continuing to insist that my only case on you is your slanking which, again, it's not, that's only a single one of the points and you not only refuse to respond to the other three (which, fair, at least some of them aren't really good to respond to) you're also pretending they don't exist (significantly less genuine).Looking over this again... 4mask is really red. You're basically poking my for slanking, a word I had to look up as it's slang. Likewise, why delay the post, wouldn't that make it staged and planned? Rather than a wererat, a werewolf seeking to kill others makes sense. And that is not a good look on anyone, let alone a survivor who is likely to die from a mafiakill or get lynched by a mafia-assisted push. By nature, your claim really hurts town worse than a Miller would, as there is no point keeping you around or lynching you. Only you aren't guaranteed to be a survivor.. How many days must you survive to win? Two? Three? Five? How about six or seven. As it stands I see nothing that can really be addressed further in this than already was.It’s interesting that you only discuss one of my points against you, and the one that is far and away the weakest and least reliable, and yet you barely address the only really meaningful part of it which is that your takes seem limp and very focused on people surrounding you. You’ve only hit easy targets that other people were pressuring at the time (Icy for bad questions and secretdorf for being very ??? thus far), and your attempt to tie secretdorf and Icy together into a team is pretty baffling because it relies on ignoring the fact he has two other people he listed as town.Side note but I agree that it looks like Secretdorf is fabricating reads rather than making real ones, that read on NQT is interesting in italics.Spoiler: Why Tric is a wolf, spoiled so webadict doesn't have an aneurysm (click to show/hide)
Also blue continuing to parrot webadict is a thing.
Ok... First of all, there is something majorly wrong with my clocks. Did daylight savings time pass over? It's confusing me since my computer reads 10:10 AM. My phone and tablet read an hour ahead meanwhile, and my physical clocks read 10:11 as of now.
Second, I spent this morning finsihing up the last bits of Atelier Ryza, the first game, on my Switch. Switch also has many sales, so I got Assasain's Creed III, aa well Rouge/Black Flag in a combo-deal. And Ni no kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, along with Digimon Cyber Sleuth Complete Edition. And Hollow Realization for something different. Cost me 50 bucks all told? Worth it.
In other news that isn't gaming related, note that this game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.Quotethis game's start and the end of Vengeful coincided, and I had made a big post in that game as a finisher. So now back to catchup and comments on what happened last night. Don't go writing me off that quickly survivor.
And yet with all that said, I still find myself leaning town off this post, because your first response is to accuse me of being a wolf despite my survivor claim, which is anti-wincon for wolves.
Actually now that I think about it SK werebear makes sense in your case, it would explain a lot of things. The vote stays.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 12:11:38 pm
Woo boy this is going to be a lot of reads. Ealry days, but might as well post a real readlist. Lets see how well I do.
webadict: Slight Town read. Don't expect any analysis on this cause after vengeful my memory on the first day of the game is fuzzy.
Vector: Vector doesn't get a read or a color. Ties to webadict yes, but no color. Null-read.
TricMagic: Naturally I cannot give comments on my own alignment. Ifyou read ths, have a cookie. ;D
ToonyMan: Town read. Previous post says it all, and none of their other posts dispute it for me. [See wuba for explanation there.]
BluarianKnight: Null. Seems town-like. But his voting seems more like taking my advice on using your vote literally and liberally. There is the whole parrot thing 4mask points out. On the whole, I'll tentatively place them as town for the sake of narrowing down the list.
Luckyowl: Town-ish. This will likely solidify as we enter future days with less people.
Secretdorf: Top scum-pick of today. Few posts, a joke post, and a readlist with more scum on it than can fit in this game, and few to no town.
4maskwolf: Survivor, third party wolf throwing shade, or scum. You can decide, but any votes on him won't do much.[I will get to the rest of your post later, it's just that one point I wanted to address while I got going](after these posts, I'm almost certain he is not a survivor. Third party, but not survivor. Werebear isn't something I was aware existed, but such a claim I made is anti-wincon for it if I was. And going after it anyway is completely useless as it's a third-party role that would only trigger off of being targeted. Just ignore it and hunt scum. You can't take the chance you can't actually do SOMETHING to me though, so you want to lynch me, the only thing that would bypass this supposed power.)
Toaster: Null. You, like Vector, don't get any reads. Unlike Vector, you also aren't currently tied to anyone.
juicebox: Null. Like Toaster. I need to see more from you to gain an opinion.
Jim Groovester: How quaint the suspicious people are at the bottom. Lurking, promising more later, you get the jist. Your streak may end, so best get hunting so it doesn't happen.
IcyTea31: Gut instinct that your posts were wrong. And now you are using yours, so... Kinda leaning away from you for now, but you will end up higher if secretdorf is scum.
notquitethere: Still notquitehere. Leaning more to scummyness than towniness, but not to the point you get a blue color.
Previewed, fixed typos and sent. An uncut version for my current feelings on everyone. Enjoy and read, if I ever die it will be useful. If not, still useful, just not confirmed one way or the other.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 12:16:51 pm
Web, can we get Mamobo for a full votecount?
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 12:18:41 pm
If somebody else comes forward I will be voting one of you two. There is a very high probability one of you is lying scum. If you're legit and mafia decide to gamble the odds that's their move.
Assuming a counterclaim, how would you determine which is real? Would you concede the possibility they were both survivors?
@Jim:
>has an important meeting today
>gets hammered while singing about titans the night before
Sounds on-brand to me.
Secretdorf:
Luckyowl, you better be mafia this time.
4maskwolf is mafia, probably.
Tricmagic is mafia, too, probably. Because I don't see how claiming VT will help us. At least, mafia would have killed you instead of a PR. And you say we should waste a track on you?
Webadict is mafia, too, probably.
Toonyman is mafia, too, probably.
Toaster is town, probably.
Icytea is mafia, too, probably.
You have thrown out five probably mafia folks. In a thirteen player game, a standard scum team would almost certainly be three players. How do you reconcile these numbers?
That reads post was not a reads post, that was a joke. Never mind that.
I don't believe you. Answer the above question; no calling it a joke copout.
Juicebox:
Toaster: Supposing there is a cult, how do we out them?
Good question; I hate dealing with conversion. The best way I know is sudden shifts in behavior; people turning on people they declared town days prior or sudden aversion to attacking a player. Problem is, of course, those are both tells of an investigative role as well.
Vector:
I thought you were RiA-ing with a bunch of posts about someone who wasn't in the game to piss me off.
How did this make it into a separate post instead of one bigger one with the post above it?
LuckyOwl:
I am present and also town.
Convince us, on both counts.
did your scum team told you to say that? or are you going rogue?
This isn't doing it.
NQT:
Unvote, we'll have an idea from the night whether 4mask is an SK or not. No point killing him today when an actual scum team is around.
Could you elaborate, please? On a scale of 1-10, how convinced are you that 4mask is not on a standard scum team?
TricMagic:
Thinking on it, I'd propose a 4mask/Secretdorf/scumteam. One with very weird things going on and missing a member, but seeking to turn the lynch off of another.
Web, can we get Mamobo for a full votecount?
How do you tie them together? Can you resolve your thoughts on IcyTea in with said team?
Hmmm.
BluarianKnight: Now that it's over, I can say I semi-followed Vengeful 14 and noted your win there. What did you learn from that game that you can immediately apply here, to this game and its situation right now?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 12:18:41 pm
Blue
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 12:34:26 pm
QuoteI am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.Reasons? Gambler's Fallacy is a thing.QuoteNQT hasn't posted a lot but I think he is town this time as his posts don't look like he has been constructing townreads on himself.I don't yet have enough on NQT to make a solid read on him. So this fits.
Luckyowl: Town-ish. This will likely solidify as we enter future days with less people.Right after admonishing Secretdorf for making reads on the low-posters, you make the same reads yourself? That's hypocritical of you.
notquitethere: Still notquitehere. Leaning more to scummyness than towniness, but not to the point you get a blue color.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 12:42:02 pm
Two for the price of one is pretty nice.
Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.
Blue
I could just be saying that to throw you off track you know. Why the shift to Blue without any reasoning.
To IT, there is a fault in the circuit. How would you fix it?
To Toaster, I like my toast brown but not burnt. And there is a reason I tied those two. The third could be IcyTea. Or Jim, as I'm keeping that open. Or 4mask isn't mafia in which case it becomes mafia keeping a lynchee alive for when they need to use him to waste a day. Bit early to make tells, and my list(this is to IT) is more putting my thoughts into form.
On that note, the read on Luckyowl and NQT both state things that make that read less clear. But some must be assumed until proven guilty in order to put togehter reads on others. And I think as time goes on LO will reveal themselves to be townie, eventually. Or not, but we'll get to that point when we get there. If it's hypocritical, who exactly do you defend with that accusation IT?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 12:48:43 pm
:)Because I already stated my reasoning on blue several times. Their push on me seemed forced and their backtracking on it insincere. I assume people reading my posts have read all my posts and understand where my head is at.
Two for the price of one is pretty nice.Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.
Blue
I could just be saying that to throw you off track you know. Why the shift to Blue without any reasoning.
I'm actually pondering a Secret/X scumteam right now but I'm not ready to reveal who the second person is just yet, hopefully I'll have it nailed down by the end of the day.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 12:50:43 pm
I reread that and realized it comes across incorrectly: I already know who X is but I need more time to nail down whether I think they're definitely a wolf or not.:)Because I already stated my reasoning on blue several times. Their push on me seemed forced and their backtracking on it insincere. I assume people reading my posts have read all my posts and understand where my head is at.
Two for the price of one is pretty nice.Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.
Blue
I could just be saying that to throw you off track you know. Why the shift to Blue without any reasoning.
I'm actually pondering a Secret/X scumteam right now but I'm not ready to reveal who the second person is just yet, hopefully I'll have it nailed down by the end of the day.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 12:51:30 pm
To IT, there is a fault in the circuit. How would you fix it?What circuit? I don't know what you're talking about.
Quote
On that note, the read on Luckyowl and NQT both state things that make that read less clear. But some must be assumed until proven guilty in order to put togehter reads on others. And I think as time goes on LO will reveal themselves to be townie, eventually. Or not, but we'll get to that point when we get there.On what basis are you making those assumptions? You're judging one player to be town and another to be scum, when neither of them has posted much of anything yet. Why the different treatment?
Quote
If it's hypocritical, who exactly do you defend with that accusation IT?I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying that you're scummy for doing something that you yourself recognized as scummy.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 12:54:53 pm
:)Also you realize that mafia don't want a survivor to die, yes? A survivor is someone confirmed to not have a dangerous PR and who can be potentially bullied to side with them in endgame. I'm not "being left alive as a potential lynchee later", if I'm left alive it's as a potential ally later.
Two for the price of one is pretty nice.Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.
Blue
I could just be saying that to throw you off track you know. Why the shift to Blue without any reasoning.
To IT, there is a fault in the circuit. How would you fix it?
To Toaster, I like my toast brown but not burnt. And there is a reason I tied those two. The third could be IcyTea. Or Jim, as I'm keeping that open. Or 4mask isn't mafia in which case it becomes mafia keeping a lynchee alive for when they need to use him to waste a day. Bit early to make tells, and my list(this is to IT) is more putting my thoughts into form.
On that note, the read on Luckyowl and NQT both state things that make that read less clear. But some must be assumed until proven guilty in order to put togehter reads on others. And I think as time goes on LO will reveal themselves to be townie, eventually. Or not, but we'll get to that point when we get there. If it's hypocritical, who exactly do you defend with that accusation IT?
Also your take on me is just, like, atrociously bad to the point where I genuinely question your mental state. I'm going to sound like a broken record from BYOR here but you don't claim dangerous, attention grabbing things D1 as a wolf because they fall apart the moment someone touches them. If I get tracked to a kill (or tracked anywhere at all for that matter), if I get inspected, or if a townie vig gets antsy and blasts me near endgame, the gig is up and the whole thing is wasted.
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 12:55:35 pm
And there is a reason I tied those two.
Care to say what it is?
You're talking a lot but not saying much.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 01:06:32 pm
OK so I have collated the roles from all the old games in a spreadsheet (I'm probably re-doing work that already exists, but I couldn't see it anywhere). There's a bunch of possibilities to work through but here's a comprehensive overview of all the possible non-town roles. I've included roles from the Bastard as we can't rule them out as possibilities (Meph included them in the OP after all): the bastard nature of that game was just that there were 3 competing scum teams and no town.
Scum Teams
Werewolves - 3/11 previous games
Werewolves act as a normal mafia team. They can also have werewolf specific roles, but not always and never yet exclusively:
Werewolf Leader - Kills a random non-werewolf when lynched
Werewolf Flanker - When aiding the nightkill, it makes the kill unblockable.
Cult - 4/11 previous games
Cults can either be charismatic cults (i.e. what we usually mean by the term "cult" in mafia) but they can also be ritual killers and act like a regular mafia team with a kill power. Cultist have normal town roles as well, but depending which kind of cult, they'll also may have one of the following:
Charismatic Cultist - Converts people into the cult
Cult Leader - Appears as town on inspections
We've never seen both appear in the same game and while I suppose I wouldn't rule it out absolutely, it wouldn't match the normal setting info as both are leader-type roles.
Vampires - 2/11 previous games
Vampires are cultists, but unlike the regular cult, their converts become Vampire Slaves and lose their prior roles. Vampires can have town roles, though in both full-Vampire teams so far they've had a Vampire Lord. The specific vamps are:
- Vampire Lord: Converts town players into Vampire Slaves
- Vampire Slave: Has no powers
See below for the third party "lone vampire" variant.
Dark Magus - 1/11 previous games
A one man scum team with a mafiakill and a bunch of one shots. They resurrect automatically once per game.
Magic Brotherhood - 1/11 previous games
Magic-themed town roles (Witch, Wizard, Fortune teller). Can mark a hex on one night and then invoke that hex on another to kill. This team has only appeared in the semi-bastard.
Templars - 1/11 previous games
A scum team with a joint block any of them can use. Can have normal town roles (though templar themed, so it was Sage and Knight). This team has only appeared in the semi-bastard.
Can have the powerful specialist role:
- Veteran Templar: immune to conversion, can night-kill or protect
Third Party
Always anti-town
Demon: A serial killer immune to blocks and redirect
Ghoul: Serial killer. Can eat the dead instead of performing the kill: if they do then their next kill is unstoppable.
Necromancer: Serial killer. Raises a dead player as a Zombie who can then perform the kills.
Zombie
Werebear Serial Killer: unlike the town werebear, they have an active kill power, not a reflexive one
[X] Serial Killer: As we've seen an existing roles (werebear, necromancer) be repurposed as a serial killer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see this happen again. Could even have a wererat serial killer.
Anti-town except in edge cases
Devil: Leaves the game with a win if they gather 3 souls. They can offer a player a powerful one-shot each night and if that player accepts they get the souls. When the Devil wins, the players who have traded their souls go to hell with the Devil.
Survivors
Lone Vampire: Survivor. Can feed on anyone, roleblocking them, and if they feed on the same person twice in a row, that player dies.
Wererat: Survivor, no powers. Sucks to be them.
Town Allies
Guardian Angel: Town Ally - wins so long as a town player is alive at the end of the game, leaves town if they fail. Has four different kinds of protection they can use on their target (vs. death, conversion etc.)
Additionally:
- Scum priests can resurrect town into their ranks (this happened in Supernatural 5 with a werewolf priest)
- Resurrections can go wrong and create third party survivors, like Demons and Lone Vampires
Quick Note on Town Roles
- In some games there is the "Townsperson" role, which is just vanilla townie.
- The monster hunter is usually a hunter of a specific monster (vampire or werewolf) and they can inspect players to see if they are that monster (+ they have a kill). In Supernatural 8 there was a Vampire Hunter in a game without any vampires. As such, their inspect would never be positive.
- Sometimes there's a Lone Witch, so instead of being a mason, they're a watcher
OK. There's the information. Going to attend to what's happening here in my next post. Let me know if I missed anything or got anything wrong.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 01:14:18 pm
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 01:16:41 pm
Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.I'm still under the impression Blue is Town, even if they're sheeping me, so I'm gonna need to see more than usual on that one. Secretdorf is a legit pick to go for, though, and I definitely see scum equity in it. Tric has done enough for me to not want to eliminate them today. What's your feel on Vector for w/w?
Blue
Also, I rescind my useless claim, I can at least semi-believe you are trying to help Town.
Also, for people calling Lucky Town, did I miss the obvious Luckyclaim earlier? I don't remember it, and I can usually read Lucky super easily.
Also, I feel like I'm sheeping ToonyMan hard because I agree with a lot of things they're saying.
I am also liking Toaster pushing cases that need pushing.
PPE: Okay, will read later.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 01:17:23 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 01:24:09 pm
TricMagicQuoteIf it's hypocritical, who exactly do you defend with that accusation IT?I'm not defending anyone. I'm saying that you're scummy for doing something that you yourself recognized as scummy.
For making a joke post, then pushing forth another as the actual readlist, but it's just as bad? I simply gave my Honest opinion on things. It's by no means a final one, that will occur as the day approaches the end.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 01:27:48 pm
Honestly the sheeping you isn't wolfy so much as it is just weird, he's basically just parroting you word for word on me while expressing his own thoughts elsewhere and I'm not sure what to make of that. What I find wolfy there is his case on me and subsequent retraction. His post where he voted me felt very fake and like he was forcing anger and fire into his tone rather than genuinely believing his case, and his unvote was timed shortly after the thread started to move towards "okay the claim is probably more legit than we initially thought" with very little commentary other than that I'd "proved my point". Scum has more reason than town does not to want a survivor dead, so the quick unvote was a little weird in a bad way.Tric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.I'm still under the impression Blue is Town, even if they're sheeping me, so I'm gonna need to see more than usual on that one. Secretdorf is a legit pick to go for, though, and I definitely see scum equity in it. Tric has done enough for me to not want to eliminate them today. What's your feel on Vector for w/w?
Blue
Secretdorf is indeed a legit pick and I think there's plenty of scum equity there, I'll have more to say later.
Tric I've come around on, as his posting has picked up today he seems like his usual, derpy town self.
Vector... hmm. I'll get back to you on that.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 01:34:12 pm
ToonyMan:No. I don't believe this game would start with two survivors. One at most.If somebody else comes forward I will be voting one of you two. There is a very high probability one of you is lying scum. If you're legit and mafia decide to gamble the odds that's their move.Assuming a counterclaim, how would you determine which is real? Would you concede the possibility they were both survivors?
Since everybody has had a chance to say something I will make my thoughts known. If somebody came forward to try to counter-claim 4mask then I would have voted them because they are mafia.
4maskwolf instant-claimed survivor 20 minutes into game start. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) He did not talk to anybody about doing this. Can we discredit that they aren't some other harmful third-party? No we cannot, but he's not mafia and not worth lynching today.
@NQT:
[X] Serial Killer: As we've seen an existing roles (werebear, necromancer) be repurposed as a serial killer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see this happen again. Could even have a wererat serial killer.Do you think 4mask is actually an anti-town third-party/SK?
@Webadict:
Also, I feel like I'm sheeping ToonyMan hard because I agree with a lot of things they're saying.That's because you know I'm right or you know I'm right.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 01:38:04 pm
For making a joke post, then pushing forth another as the actual readlist, but it's just as bad? I simply gave my Honest opinion on things. It's by no means a final one, that will occur as the day approaches the end.No, for making reads which don't make sense when placed next to each other. I would accept calling LO and NQT scum for lurking, and calling them null. Calling them town would be weird, but wouldn't be inconsistent. However, it's nonsensical to have different reads on two players you have similarly little information on. I don't know if you're lying to me, or lying to yourself via cognitive dissonance, but you're not being honest.
notquitethere
What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 01:47:14 pm
@IcyTea:
notquitethereI think it's fine. His information isn't wrong and it's good to know (though I dislike the suspicious tone towards 4maskwolf and the unsuspicious tone towards TricMagic, feels manipulative). I'm more looking forward to their next post though.
What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.
About 4mask:
As we've seen an existing roles (werebear, necromancer) be repurposed as a serial killer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see this happen again. Could even have a wererat serial killer.
About TricMagic:
In some games there is the "Townsperson" role, which is just vanilla townie.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 02:54:23 pm
Didn't read the thread closely but NQT's big scum team breakdown is useful but I didn't see much in the way of scumhunting or declaring reads. I have found in previous games productive gestures like that scummy when absent of meaningful scumhunting.
More later when I'm not at work.
My meeting went well by the way, as if there was no better way that I could have prepared for it than what I did.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 02:59:41 pm
Vector:I thought you were RiA-ing with a bunch of posts about someone who wasn't in the game to piss me off.
How did this make it into a separate post instead of one bigger one with the post above it?
Ah, because after I posted I realized a key component of why I thought as I did: a conversation with 4mask after our game together on another site about his previous tendency to use RiA as scum. I wanted to make sure that I posted using the phrase "RiA" so that he would understand the connection. He also knows that we haven't played any games together as anything except town/town, so ... anyway.
To be honest, I expected your answer to be along the lines of not wanting to say you'd shoot me to my face, or anyone's but a faceless "other guy". At the time I asked the original question, there was little to reread, little to make that contextual decision beyond what you know about me from the past. The question thus becomes "Do you trust me?" and "Would you dare to say to my face that you don't trust me?" Let's move this to another context: endgame: me you, and a faceless third person. Which is more important, what we say then, or what we said before then?
Uh, sure. Although I'm starting to be very curious about what you think outside the context of these RVS questions.
I'm happy to tell you to your face that I'd shoot you if I thought you were scum. No, I don't trust you, I know that you play this game well and I have respect for your knowledge of it.
I think I would probably be inclined to pay more attention to what was said before in order to avoid being twisted by last-minute emotional appeals.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 03:00:41 pm
Webadict, you really need to up your scum game.
Where's the vitriol? Where's the uncertainty? The verve? "Even less a fan of my posting than you usually are?" Bullshit. You know you've never said that, and you know that you usually don't need to manufacture a scum read on me to come poke my buttons. Scumadict lacks the playfulness and sharpness of town webadict.
Also, proud of you for practicing pocketing on the noob. Better luck next time, nerd.
Sometimes I get the impression you're playing five years in the past.
Not that this is actually relevant to anything but webadict has been a pretty chill dude from my observations of how he's played since my glorious return.
By and large I can't actually figure out why you voted any of the targets you voted, except for me since you were waiting on an RVS response.
Nah, I'm basing this on the, what, 5 games I recently played with Web. Web may be pretty chill overall, but as town he's not this chill. His reads are too tentative and he's normally more paranoid than this as town. See: Web going off on Shadowdump, Web's everything in the team game we just played together.
Speaking of which ...
@Vector: Pocketing the noob? I like that you think I exist in a vacuum, and that I can't expect people to be Town unless they are a noob. I watched all of Vengeful 14 and saw a good player. I watched YellowPixel's play, too. I will say that BK is not really a noob to me. YP is, but BK seems like their experience translates well here, so not exactly a noob. Though, I will correct something I missed yesterday: I meant to type that, within the last few games we've played, I have suspected you as Town, however, this time I feel much more solidly that this assertion is correct, especially since you hardswerved based on that accusation and OMGUSed back.
Your own readslist has a number of skilled players at the top, so obviously that wasn't my point. BK is an outsider relative to this board, thus potentially psychological vulnerable, thus good to buddy and pocket. You buddied up to them, and you didn't do the usual "if you want to take down BK, you'll go through me first!" thing you typically do as town (see HK on MU, MightyMushroom in CYOM4, repeatedly chainsawing me and LuckyOwl in various other games).
You have indeed suspected me as town on many occasions, but you have also, every single time, tried to determine if I was town, because you know that having me on your side is better than the other way around. But this time it's impossible, so you have to attack me -- tentatively, gently, because you know I haven't done anything -- and rely on thin scumtells, like "Vector playing erratically" (when have I not?).
I'm not swerving based on your accusation, kiddo. I'm swerving because you outed yourself as scum. You know that you have to come and get me. It's what we do. But you also know that I've got teeth, and this time, you sound like you're afraid to die.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 03:05:39 pm
What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.
My guess is that it has something to do with how suspicious it is that Tric has claimed something along the lines of VT, but:
Didn't read the thread closely but NQT's big scum team breakdown is useful but I didn't see much in the way of scumhunting or declaring reads. I have found in previous games productive gestures like that scummy when absent of meaningful scumhunting.
Also this.
But on the other hand, NQT has promised more. So I look forward to hearing about that "more."
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 24, 2021, 04:08:06 pm
Uh, sure. Although I'm starting to be very curious about what you think outside the context of these RVS questions.Fair enough. I think you've been telling me what you think I want to hear, and leaned on the obvious answers more than ones which would elicit responses from me. This, combined with the general low-profile attitude you've showed (except in regards to webadict, interestingly), I currently lean towards a scum-or-cop read. In other words, I suspect that you have a plan for winning the game in the Night. For which team, I'm not sure.
Yes, that's my point in calling the post a distraction. I don't see a useful takeaway from it, so I'm asking NQT what its purpose is, because I could definitely see scum!NQT posting something like that to display "productivity" without actually participating in the daygame himself.Didn't read the thread closely but NQT's big scum team breakdown is useful but I didn't see much in the way of scumhunting or declaring reads. I have found in previous games productive gestures like that scummy when absent of meaningful scumhunting.Also this.
Post by: juicebox on February 24, 2021, 04:33:16 pm
TricMagicWait, you were calling yourself scummy? That's my mistake, then. I'd still like you to try to follow up on those instincts, perhaps by asking a question which requires an alignment-specific answer?My run specifically.Icytea. I get it was just after, but one could pay attention. I'l forgive you, if only because I'm coming off a finishing post in Vengeful. And instincts are very useful in a social game, it's how you determine something is wrong with how things are worded. Or logic, but in that case I'll go with instinct until proper logic appears to fault that instinct.
VectorI mean, if you want my real answer? I'd go back and reread the thread until I had more information on you, the other guy, and the person who started the thunderdome. It depends on what Day it is. It depends on who else is dead and how much information each kill would provide, blah blah blah blah blah for me it's more about context than about any one person involved and without that context the question doesn't give viable information about my ge-new-eye-N thought process.To be honest, I expected your answer to be along the lines of not wanting to say you'd shoot me to my face, or anyone's but a faceless "other guy". At the time I asked the original question, there was little to reread, little to make that contextual decision beyond what you know about me from the past. The question thus becomes "Do you trust me?" and "Would you dare to say to my face that you don't trust me?" Let's move this to another context: endgame: me you, and a faceless third person. Which is more important, what we say then, or what we said before then?
But you know that.
BluarianKnightIcyTea31 - Which person here would worry you the most of they were scum?Definitely notquitethere. He's the type of player who's well capable of pulling a genealogical account of why I, my mother, and my mother's mother are all scum out of nowhere. Even though in that situation I'd know it was false, I'd have to do a similar amount of analysis and work to prove that to the other players.IcyTea31 - His first questions had plenty that were, at least to me, too pointed and aggressive for scumhunting. Scumleaning.First time I've been called scum for that, BluarianKnight. How do you scumhunt without asking pointed and aggressive questions?QuoteWeb gives me the opposite vibes - something's off - the buddying thing is sort of similarWhich buddying thing? Surely not the part where I opened my game with a joking accusation?
juiceboxIcyTea: I plan on finding scum and lynching them D2 instead.Let's assume there's good town play from other players and scum gets lynched on D1, but you can't quite take credit for it. Where do you start looking for scum on D2?
SecretdorfLuckyowl, you better be mafia this time.Wanna narrow that down a bit? Surely there aren't 6 scum in a 13-player game, especially one with a claimed third party?
4maskwolf is mafia, probably.
Tricmagic is mafia, too, probably. Because I don't see how claiming VT will help us. At least, mafia would have killed you instead of a PR. And you say we should waste a track on you?
Webadict is mafia, too, probably.
Toonyman is mafia, too, probably.
Toaster is town, probably.
Icytea is mafia, too, probably.
Jim GroovesterThe smart answer is that I would pick people who would help me win but the answer I am going to give is the people who would be funnest to have on my team.Names, Jim. Who would it be funniest to have on your team?
webadictPretty good conrent so far.Feels kinda eh-y, but... I dunno, call it intuition.Is my content "pretty good" or "kinda eh-y"?
General reads:
Webadict and Vector's spat seems genuine, probably not both scum.
This isn't quite how TricMagic has acted in the past when unenthusiastic about their role, though it is better performance than expected. Possibilities range up to being coached by a scumbuddy, but I'm willing to count it as genuinely improved town play for now.
4maskwolf's survivor claim, if false, is more likely jester than mafia at this point. Trusting for now, since there's a promise of no jesters.
Jim Groovester's opening post matches my thoughts pretty well. The single post leans town, but I'll want more.
Just realized I forgot to answer this question. I would start by looking at that scum player's interactions on D1, and try to deduce who could and couldn't be on a scumteam with them. If I can't reach a conclusion from that, I look at what's been going on d2 and see if I can spot a slip or make a case on someone based on their d2 actions.
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 04:39:22 pm
So, instead, I will let you bite and gnash and attack because you will eventually wear yourself out when I don't bend. Eventually you will grow tired. Eventually you will stop.
And now that I've said that, you have two choices, don't you? You can keep throwing down at full throttle, or you can accept the obvious reality.
I am most assuredly Town. My ultimate goal is to find scum. I can't really argue that I'm within meta because, well, I'm not. But I think you want to be, and it feels incredibly scummy that you're attacking me for not attacking you on your turf.
If tou want to use meta tells on me, that means you want me to use meta tells on you, and it feels like you want me to read you as Town OR you think that you can push me to read you as Town as evidence that I'm scum. I just don't feel the latter, honestly. And I think that might force for Nitro.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 04:54:43 pm
If tou want to use meta tells on me, that means you want me to use meta tells on you, and it feels like you want me to read you as Town OR you think that you can push me to read you as Town as evidence that I'm scum. I just don't feel the latter, honestly. And I think that might force for Nitro.
. . . . . ?
I'm attacking you because you've been using spurious reasoning, like claiming that I'm using meta tells on you in order to ... push you to read me in a particular way. Or claiming that my side comment about your pocketing BK meant that I thought "someone must be new in order to be town."
I'm using meta tells on you as part of determining your alignment. I don't have some goal of hurting your feelings just in order to hurt your feelings (that would be crazy, not to mention malicious) and I'm definitely not trying to read you in order to defensively get you to clear me based on meta. I honestly can't remember a single game where anyone has tried to clear or catch me based on meta. I've been thinking about this for a while, and I just don't know any. So the point is: deliberately playing within my own meta doesn't make sense if that meta has not been previously articulated.
Like, I honestly don't care if you park your vote on me for the rest of the game. I'm voting you because I'm pretty sure you're scum, and I'm way more interested in that than anything you think of me.
VectorUh, sure. Although I'm starting to be very curious about what you think outside the context of these RVS questions.Fair enough. I think you've been telling me what you think I want to hear, and leaned on the obvious answers more than ones which would elicit responses from me. This, combined with the general low-profile attitude you've showed (except in regards to webadict, interestingly), I currently lean towards a scum-or-cop read. In other words, I suspect that you have a plan for winning the game in the Night. For which team, I'm not sure.
That's interesting, but for clarity, I'm curious about your general reads. You've been following up on RVS questions for a while.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 05:14:06 pm
Zombies don't play during the day but they can talk with the Necromancer in private and are in fact actionable by abilities if players suspect something is up.Thanks. Noted.
Do you think 4mask is actually an anti-town third-party/SK?I don't have any compelling reason to believe 4mask is an SK, I was just pointing out that it was possibly consistent with their claim. Let's see how many kills there are at night!
I didn't intend that to be particularly unsuspicious towards Tric. As I said, some games have a townsperson. Many don't. Drawing any kind of attention to one's self unbidden is mildly town-sided, but baiting town watchers is scum-sided.notquitethereI think it's fine. His information isn't wrong and it's good to know (though I dislike the suspicious tone towards 4maskwolf and the unsuspicious tone towards TricMagic, feels manipulative). I'm more looking forward to their next post though.
What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.
About TricMagic:In some games there is the "Townsperson" role, which is just vanilla townie.
IcyTea
What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.I'm terribly sorry I provided useful information critical for playing this game as town a day earlier than strictly required. I could die this night and then how would I post this useful information? Who else is going to do the homework? I'm trying to right an information asymmetry between players that have played this game (who could be scum) and everyone else.
But look, let's follow this thought of yours. What event is scum!NQT distracting us from?
Jim
Didn't read the thread closely but NQT's big scum team breakdown is useful but I didn't see much in the way of scumhunting or declaring reads. I have found in previous games productive gestures like that scummy when absent of meaningful scumhunting.Absolutely. I get this kind of pushback in every game where I provide information. People are always like "yeah but it's not scum reads". I'm a man for all seasons, I can do both. But I am beholden to the laws of time and space just like everyone else, so I usually can't do both simultaneously. This criticism will hold water if I do literally nothing else in the day other than be informative.
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 05:21:41 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 24, 2021, 05:43:50 pm
Night everyone. Please don't hammer during the night when I'm asleep? And would still want to see a Mamobo votecounting for those not voting.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 24, 2021, 06:26:39 pm
BluarianKnight: Now that it's over, I can say I semi-followed Vengeful 14 and noted your win there. What did you learn from that game that you can immediately apply here, to this game and its situation right now?
Avoid barking up the same tree for too long - sometimes it's worth it swapping targets.
Also, I need to vote. It's a tool I didn't use - not even because I was scum! I was just generally afraid to use it..
Albeit, maybe I took that too far with this game;
Honestly the sheeping you isn't wolfy so much as it is just weird, he's basically just parroting you word for word on me while expressing his own thoughts elsewhere and I'm not sure what to make of that. What I find wolfy there is his case on me and subsequent retraction. His post where he voted me felt very fake and like he was forcing anger and fire into his tone rather than genuinely believing his case, and his unvote was timed shortly after the thread started to move towards "okay the claim is probably more legit than we initially thought" with very little commentary other than that I'd "proved my point". Scum has more reason than town does not to want a survivor dead, so the quick unvote was a little weird in a bad wayTric misunderstanding how an SK werebear works leads me to believe he's probably not one, he's just being a wolfy townie as usual.I'm still under the impression Blue is Town, even if they're sheeping me, so I'm gonna need to see more than usual on that one. Secretdorf is a legit pick to go for, though, and I definitely see scum equity in it. Tric has done enough for me to not want to eliminate them today. What's your feel on Vector for w/w?
Blue
I felt like I wasn't being pressuring enough - so I used my vote. I bandwagoned and let others lead me along last night, and I realized I probably should make a more legitimate claim before putting my vote out. It's why dropped my vote on you - I didn't have much of a claim, and my intuition told me on second-read you probably were town.
BluarianKnight: Don't believe I've played a game with you. How would you describe your playstyle in one sentence?Wary but Thorough, that would be by non-weird answer.
I like this.Sorry for the wait - let's do this. 8)BluarianKnight: You're the only one here I haven't played with before. Should I consider you dangerous?Unique choice of words - dangerous.
Yeah, I'd probably be someone to worry about, IcyTea31.
I don't like this.Why are you claiming survivor D1?
Are you trying to win a death-wincon? Or just throwing people off your real scent?
Unvote.
4maskwolf.
I like this even less.
I've never played with you so I don't know if this is typical for you but you look like you're trying too hard.I'm willing to believe 4mask for now, while his claim hurts us at night it does remove a lynch candidate for today.
What do you think, Vector? BK?
You two switched votes before even letting your original vote questions get answered.
I'm willing to give the benefit - I think he's proved his point.
Unvote.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this makes me uneasy.
I was trying too hard at the time - again, didn't build a case, was terrible scumhunting practices I'll admit to now.
Also; parroting Web? Yeah, I did that too. I'll admit this now - I've got a bias on Web and Vector - both of them I highly respect, and I've tried to base my strategies off of their plays (wackiness + well researched posts). So, when I saw this;
BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.
I was definitely swayed by this - I'll try to keep my bias off this, but I'm willing to admit fault.
BluarianKnightIcyTea31 - Which person here would worry you the most of they were scum?Definitely notquitethere. He's the type of player who's well capable of pulling a genealogical account of why I, my mother, and my mother's mother are all scum out of nowhere. Even though in that situation I'd know it was false, I'd have to do a similar amount of analysis and work to prove that to the other players.IcyTea31 - His first questions had plenty that were, at least to me, too pointed and aggressive for scumhunting. Scumleaning.First time I've been called scum for that, BluarianKnight. How do you scumhunt without asking pointed and aggressive questions?QuoteWeb gives me the opposite vibes - something's off - the buddying thing is sort of similarWhich buddying thing? Surely not the part where I opened my game with a joking accusation?
To the scumhunt;
There's a difference between asking pointed questions, and asking loaded questions - and you were asking the latter. It didn't feel like you were scumhunting - but trying to get any reason to twist folks words. That's at least my feeling on the matter - and it's why I put my vote to you at the beginning.
Also, as for the buddying thing;
BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.
This is what I meant. It was only a short scroll above the post you quoted from me.
So, another question to you, IcyTea - did you miss Web's post, or purposely ignore it?
Gonna do another post in a bit, with more questions to folks - but I just wanted to answer the questions aimed at me first. Let me know if I missed one - I genuinely might have missed a question, I did only a scroll through for my name.
Post by: Mamobo on February 24, 2021, 06:29:43 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252293#msg8252293), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183),
IcyTea31 - 2 - BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252381#msg8252381),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 0 -
Luckyowl - 1 - Secretdorf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252071#msg8252071),
notquitethere - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252075#msg8252075),
Secretdorf - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277),
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 1 - Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251900#msg8251900),
Vector - 1 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252057#msg8252057),
webadict - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252096#msg8252096),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 3 - Luckyowl, juicebox, Jim Groovester,
7 to Hammer. Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 15:00 CST (~45 hours remaining).
Post by: Mamobo on February 24, 2021, 06:30:42 pm
Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251254#msg8251254) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251422#msg8251422) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251456#msg8251456) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251531#msg8251531) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251549#msg8251549) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251771#msg8251771) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251794#msg8251794) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251797#msg8251797) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251804#msg8251804) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251811#msg8251811) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251815#msg8251815) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251818#msg8251818) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251823#msg8251823) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251834#msg8251834) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251838#msg8251838) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251839#msg8251839) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251843#msg8251843) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251858#msg8251858) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251888#msg8251888) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251895#msg8251895) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251898#msg8251898) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251904#msg8251904) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251910#msg8251910) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251911#msg8251911) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251912#msg8251912) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251918#msg8251918) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251919#msg8251919) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251926#msg8251926) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251930#msg8251930) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251934#msg8251934) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251936#msg8251936) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251944#msg8251944) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251962#msg8251962) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251965#msg8251965) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251966#msg8251966) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251968#msg8251968) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251973#msg8251973) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251987#msg8251987) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251995#msg8251995) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252005#msg8252005) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252256#msg8252256) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252259#msg8252259) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252269#msg8252269) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252274#msg8252274) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252284#msg8252284) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252293#msg8252293) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252303#msg8252303) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252305#msg8252305) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252308#msg8252308) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252313#msg8252313) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252319#msg8252319) Last post was 5 hours ago.
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251210#msg8251210) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251901#msg8251901) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251905#msg8251905) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251916#msg8251916) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251958#msg8251958) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251985#msg8251985) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252406#msg8252406) Last post was less than an hour ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251304#msg8251304) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251796#msg8251796) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251802#msg8251802) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251857#msg8251857) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252247#msg8252247) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252250#msg8252250) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252299#msg8252299) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252307#msg8252307) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252323#msg8252323) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252366#msg8252366) Last post was 2 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251279#msg8251279) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252136#msg8252136) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252150#msg8252150) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252348#msg8252348) Last post was 3 hours ago.
juicebox - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251276#msg8251276) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251570#msg8251570) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251976#msg8251976) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252206#msg8252206) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252237#msg8252237) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252372#msg8252372) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251211#msg8251211) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252130#msg8252130) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252132#msg8252132) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252135#msg8252135) Last post was 18 hours ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251310#msg8251310) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251816#msg8251816) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252258#msg8252258) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252263#msg8252263) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252381#msg8252381) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Secretdorf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251245#msg8251245) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251575#msg8251575) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252071#msg8252071) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238) Last post was 9 hours ago.
Toaster - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251275#msg8251275) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251421#msg8251421) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251434#msg8251434) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251805#msg8251805) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251837#msg8251837) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251900#msg8251900) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251924#msg8251924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251929#msg8251929) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252292#msg8252292) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309) Last post was 5 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251184#msg8251184) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251406#msg8251406) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251429#msg8251429) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251452#msg8251452) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251593#msg8251593) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251788#msg8251788) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251808#msg8251808) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251810#msg8251810) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251902#msg8251902) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251907#msg8251907) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251915#msg8251915) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251925#msg8251925) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251932#msg8251932) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251942#msg8251942) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251964#msg8251964) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251967#msg8251967) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251972#msg8251972) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251977#msg8251977) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251994#msg8251994) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252075#msg8252075) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252134#msg8252134) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252140#msg8252140) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252231#msg8252231) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252241#msg8252241) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252242#msg8252242) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252264#msg8252264) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252317#msg8252317) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252320#msg8252320) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252329#msg8252329) Last post was 4 hours ago.
TricMagic - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251170#msg8251170) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251569#msg8251569) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251807#msg8251807) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251822#msg8251822) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251826#msg8251826) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251846#msg8251846) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251869#msg8251869) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251956#msg8251956) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252074#msg8252074) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252270#msg8252270) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252273#msg8252273) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252280#msg8252280) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252289#msg8252289) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252291#msg8252291) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252301#msg8252301) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252318#msg8252318) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252384#msg8252384) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252391#msg8252391) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Vector - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251167#msg8251167) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251368#msg8251368) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251529#msg8251529) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251617#msg8251617) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251853#msg8251853) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251854#msg8251854) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251887#msg8251887) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251891#msg8251891) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251897#msg8251897) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251941#msg8251941) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251982#msg8251982) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251983#msg8251983) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251999#msg8251999) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252096#msg8252096) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252139#msg8252139) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252350#msg8252350) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252351#msg8252351) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252352#msg8252352) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252377#msg8252377) Last post was 1 hour ago.
webadict - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251165#msg8251165) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251485#msg8251485) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251490#msg8251490) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251547#msg8251547) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251787#msg8251787) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251789#msg8251789) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251803#msg8251803) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251814#msg8251814) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251835#msg8251835) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251878#msg8251878) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251917#msg8251917) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251975#msg8251975) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251991#msg8251991) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252004#msg8252004) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252057#msg8252057) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252129#msg8252129) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252145#msg8252145) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252243#msg8252243) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252316#msg8252316) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252374#msg8252374) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 06:36:01 pm
pushes NQT up from light blue/scum-lean to null/town[-lean status.
Night everyone. Please don't hammer during the night when I'm asleep? And would still want to see a Mamobo votecounting for those not voting.
7 to Hammer. Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 15:00 CST (~45 hours remaining).[/font]But there's no hammers in this game!
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 06:37:07 pm
Luckyowl
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 06:40:51 pm
Ah. Okay. I see now that voting you is pointless. Unvote. You are going to do very little Today and that will show that you are scum. But, if you'd like, you could give everyone some reads while you're asking for them from other people.
Secretdorf
That reads post was not a reads post, that was a joke. Never mind that.You don't need evidence on the Luckyowl feeling here. Just needs more information on why you're feeling it. Also, some on ToonyMan too, because I disagree on that one. What about the people that you haven't read yet?
Games with lots of players are a bit difficult to get into when you are late, but I'll try. First of all, I don't understand why you claimed, tricmagic? How is that supposed to help town in any way?
I think webadict is town this time mostly a gut-read on his reads post which I think was town-motivated. But I have a bad habit of taking people giving reads analysis as town, so I might reconsider that.
Blueknight might be town if I compare his play in this game with the VM. In that game, his posts were filled with explanations. Although, someone might be coaching him. Still, some of his posts are scummy.
I am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.
NQT hasn't posted a lot but I think he is town this time as his posts don't look like he has been constructing townreads on himself.
4mask is probably survivor but I haven't read anything about wererat. What is that?
Toonyman is slight scumlean idk why.
Jim G is probably town or probaly not town ie null.
ICT is townlean.
... I don't want to have to fix the code right now.pushes NQT up from light blue/scum-lean to null/town[-lean status.
Night everyone. Please don't hammer during the night when I'm asleep? And would still want to see a Mamobo votecounting for those not voting.7 to Hammer. Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 15:00 CST (~45 hours remaining).[/font]But there's no hammers in this game!
Let me catch up on what I've missed.
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 06:43:26 pm
pushes NQT up from light blue/scum-lean to null/town[-lean status.
Night everyone. Please don't hammer during the night when I'm asleep? And would still want to see a Mamobo votecounting for those not voting.7 to Hammer. Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 15:00 CST (~45 hours remaining).[/font]But there's no hammers in this game!
@Jim:no hammers
>has an important meeting today
>gets hammered while singing about titans the night before
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 06:47:11 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 06:50:48 pm
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.What specific role name do you have then?
Toaster
Could you elaborate, please? On a scale of 1-10, how convinced are you that 4mask is not on a standard scum team?I'm 9/10 4mask not being on a scum team, and 6/10 on him not being a serial killer. Scum-team players rarely draw attention to themselves unbidden like that, and claiming wererat is the correct play. I remember playing a survivor in one of Vector's games and the scum team just randomly killed me and I remember musing at the time that I'd have been better off claiming from the start to avoid that fate happening. Here's a question for you: which player is being most cautious right now?
Juicebox: vote for someone.
Initial Reads
D1 reads are so rough but here we go:
==Townish==
Vector - V's hackles being raised over 4mask was all a genuine reaction. I like the push back on Web
ToonyMan - Paying attention, thinking back to earlier games with my meta (though my first post in MVM2 was quite different: I contrived the wording for a fakeclaim in that game).
BluarianKnight - Good push, attention to detail, posted reads, I like so far, but I get what Jim didn't like
Secretdorf: I like their reads post; looking forward to seeing more of him
Jim Groovester: reactions to the thread feel genuine, less of the aggressively low-effort anti-play of scum!Jim. I want to see a case from him.
Toaster: Comes in swinging, but I think I need to see more before I can get a handle.
==Under Suspicion==
Tric: claimed VT straight off, which is poor town play regardless, but it could also be a cover claim or some kind of baiting move. I don't agree with their reads at all.
IcyTea: their push against a normal info post from me is so by the numbers objection-for-objection sake. Bad form. I like that they're asking questions.
webadict: just a gut thing, but I don't feel like their posts have much weight. Their Vector case is reasonable, but it's safe. Something feels off. But then, they were the first player to offer comprehensive reads list, so town points for that. Hmm.
juicebox: reactive, low profile. Scum.
Luckyowl - Has done nothing. Plus, if anyone's going to take a Devil's bargain and screw the town over at the last moment, it'll be LO.
==3rd party==
4maskwolf - I'm convinced that the correct move for vanilla survivors is to claim first thing, so that in itself is not a check against. If something fishy is going on with night kills or whatever, we can lynch on a future day.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 24, 2021, 07:02:26 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 24, 2021, 07:05:02 pm
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
IcyTea31: BluarianKnight, notquitethere, TricMagic
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
Secretdorf: webadict
TricMagic: Toaster
webadict: Vector
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
7 to Hammer. Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 15:00 CST (~45 hours remaining).[/font]
Just to confirm, there are no vote Hammers in this game. And the day ends 17:00 PST, not 15:00 CST. Not that I'm complaining about web having this stuff in Mamobo, just making sure people are clear on the details.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 07:05:50 pm
He knows better than anyone the kinds of shit I get up to as a wolf.
He was in the game where I claimed martyr as a mafia member.
He was the one who helped me come up with my "town lone vampire" fakeclaim in Supernatural 8.
He's seen me casually throw both my scumbuddies under the bus for an all or nothing shot at victory.
So I can't understand why he walks into the game and his immediate reaction is "hmm, 4mask open claimed survivor. He's either an SK or telling the truth," unless he knows for certain I'm not a member of the mafia team.
I also don't understand, given his justifications of why he believes my claim, his immediate reaction to it was to accuse me of being an SK and vote me if it's really that believable of a claim. Feels like retroactive justification he didn't actually believe.
Side note.
Sort by postcount, become mafia expert. Secretdorf has a lot of wolf equity and his townread on NQT was just mrrrr enough that I'm considering that scumteam as a possiblity.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 07:07:14 pm
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 07:15:00 pm
Woo boy this is going to be a lot of reads. Ealry days, but might as well post a real readlist. Lets see how well I do.Alright, so a while back, I was gonna give 4maskwolf some credit and lower my townlean on Tric, but I never got around to posting it, so... Whatever. But, I want to note this post down for later reference. I'm still leaning on TricMagic being Town, and it's going to be fairly difficult because I don't have a really good reason on why, but I am baffled by some of these reads and still think they're Town. Luckyowl is the weirdest one specifically because Lucky hadn't done anything. Why am I Town?
webadict: Slight Town read. Don't expect any analysis on this cause after vengeful my memory on the first day of the game is fuzzy.
Vector: Vector doesn't get a read or a color. Ties to webadict yes, but no color. Null-read.
TricMagic: Naturally I cannot give comments on my own alignment. Ifyou read ths, have a cookie. ;D
ToonyMan: Town read. Previous post says it all, and none of their other posts dispute it for me. [See wuba for explanation there.]
BluarianKnight: Null. Seems town-like. But his voting seems more like taking my advice on using your vote literally and liberally. There is the whole parrot thing 4mask points out. On the whole, I'll tentatively place them as town for the sake of narrowing down the list.
Luckyowl: Town-ish. This will likely solidify as we enter future days with less people.
Secretdorf: Top scum-pick of today. Few posts, a joke post, and a readlist with more scum on it than can fit in this game, and few to no town.
4maskwolf: Survivor, third party wolf throwing shade, or scum. You can decide, but any votes on him won't do much.[I will get to the rest of your post later, it's just that one point I wanted to address while I got going]
Toaster: Null. You, like Vector, don't get any reads. Unlike Vector, you also aren't currently tied to anyone.
juicebox: Null. Like Toaster. I need to see more from you to gain an opinion.
Jim Groovester: How quaint the suspicious people are at the bottom. Lurking, promising more later, you get the jist. Your streak may end, so best get hunting so it doesn't happen.
IcyTea31: Gut instinct that your posts were wrong. And now you are using yours, so... Kinda leaning away from you for now, but you will end up higher if secretdorf is scum.
notquitethere: Still notquitehere. Leaning more to scummyness than towniness, but not to the point you get a blue color.
Previewed, fixed typos and sent. An uncut version for my current feelings on everyone. Enjoy and read, if I ever die it will be useful. If not, still useful, just not confirmed one way or the other.
Why is everyone leaning me as Town? Wtf? Is all it takes just to be nicer?
I've been making this game so much harder on myself... Setting cruise control, baby.
@Webadict:Yes, but you often steal my points before I get to post them. Upsetting.Also, I feel like I'm sheeping ToonyMan hard because I agree with a lot of things they're saying.That's because you know I'm right or you know I'm right.
Absolutely. I get this kind of pushback in every game where I provide information. People are always like "yeah but it's not scum reads". I'm a man for all seasons, I can do both. But I am beholden to the laws of time and space just like everyone else, so I usually can't do both simultaneously. This criticism will hold water if I do literally nothing else in the day other than be informative.Would you mind a readslist for us? I do appreciate the scumlist, and it'd be pretty useful when we need to fullclaim, but I am in agreement with the rest that it's not a replacement for reads.
Gonna do another post in a bit, with more questions to folks - but I just wanted to answer the questions aimed at me first. Let me know if I missed one - I genuinely might have missed a question, I did only a scroll through for my name.I would appreciate this. I'd also like to point out that I could very well be lying to you, and it's not wise to trust everything I say. So, the question is what makes you trust me?
PPEs:
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.... Okay, so like, first of all, if you're Town, it'd make more sense to provide something so that you give scum rationale to kill you. Second of all, if you make it to Day 2 with what you have now, won't you be in a monumentally worse position because of that stance?
Just to confirm, there are no vote Hammers in this game. And the day ends 17:00 PST, not 15:00 CST. Not that I'm complaining about web having this stuff in Mamobo, just making sure people are clear on the details.I forgot how time works. I am apparently very tired.
NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 07:21:07 pm
I'm gonna hold my readlist until I see how Bluarian replies, so they can't steal it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 07:24:53 pm
What's going on is I'm not explaining myself very well.NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.
NQT entered the thread with a vote on my and accusing me of being an SK. This feels like an acknowledgement of my meta, as back in the days I played with him a lot that was absolutely something I would have done. But what's been bothering me throughout the day is that his first thought was that I was SK, not Mafia. Because that same meta knowledge that would lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as an SK" should absolutely have lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as mafia" because that's absolutely something I would have done. He's seen it before, when I claimed martyr as a member of the mafia team. So the fact that his first thought was "SK or survivor" and not "Mafia or survivor" feels like he came into the game knowing for a fact I wasn't mafia, so his knee-jerk reaction was "is this an SK?"
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 07:25:53 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 07:28:18 pm
NQT putting secretdorf as townie off of a single post as well is pretty thonk.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2021, 07:34:41 pm
I just don't think it massively likely you'd make a scum-team play like this as your very first move. That's what makes me doubt you're on a team. But maybe I'm wrong! We've played a lot of games together but unfortunately I don't retain the details of every single play-by-play moment. Can you point to a game where you made a similar claim as your starting move? It makes sense when there's some heat or preventative to throw off the scent.
As for Secret, in this game: I want to see him post some more, so far nothing from him would give anyone a firm handle on his alignment.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 24, 2021, 08:28:08 pm
webadict - Townlean, kinda? I haven't seen him do any slips - actually, he's been playing quite town-like so far, but.. something rubs me the wrong way.
Vector - I have no fucking idea. Going to put null - the Web/Vector arguing feels like how I've seen Vector argue with other townies before. It feels real - but they've been flipflopping a bit more then normal. My read's on null right now.
Toaster - Strong start, but would like to see more before I put down as townlean.
IcyTea31 - Half and half on this one - between towny and scum. Strong questions, but they feel very pointed to give ammunition to folks. Very aggressive, but I know that can just be a playstyle. Going to say Townlean this time.
TOWNY
juicebox - Low postcount, but I think he's not lurking or scumming - just not the big-post sort, which isn't bad. Town to me for now.
TricMagic - I've seen him pull this blazen bullshit off before. I believe his claims - and I don't think he's playing an act, especially during the time when Vengeful was still going.
ToonyMan - Definitely town. Good hunting, no slips, and has been pressuring folks who have been slipping.
Notquitethere - Strong, strong town vibes. Not as active, but has been asking good questions, and very researched posts.
Jim Groovester - hasn't given me a reason to consider him anything but town. His posts are good and his votes seem to be in town's favor.
MAFIA
Luckyowl - My read from previous research and games with him is completely off to the guy I see now - You're lurking, and from what I can tell for no good reason. I've got a decent guess you're trying to stay under the radar for some reason, which leads me to believe scumlean.
Secretdorf - Either is going completely off the rails from his townplay, or is holding back for some reason. What he is posting however, is a lot of 'x is mafia', and an incredibly half-assed readlist.. Due to my current theory, going scumlean.
THIRD PARTY
4maskwolf - I don't think he's mafia - he's been pulling far too much weight, and throwing far too many punches for me to believe he's working with a scumteam. I sure as hell don't think he's town though - unsure if friendly or hostile though, as he's been aggressively scumhunting.
Current theory: Scumteam is disorganized to high heavens, and because of that the scum are currently playing incredibly cautiously to attempt to let some of the town-slips take precedent. I'm not sure who's the third scum yet, but I'm pretty sure of my two choices.
Secretdorf and Luckyowl
What's keeping you from interacting more?
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 24, 2021, 08:30:07 pm
Unvote.
Secretdorf
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 08:40:56 pm
Off from work. Expect a bigger post in a couple hours.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 24, 2021, 08:46:53 pm
Mmm, yes. My votes give you reason to think I'm town. Which votes are those? I have not cast a vote during Day 1.
Off from work. Expect a bigger post in a couple hours.
Welp. I didn't mean votes - I meant prods. I got no fucking clue why I put votes.
Post by: Secretdorf on February 24, 2021, 09:09:31 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 09:10:35 pm
Oh, apologies Meph - forgot to unvote.You don't have to explicitly unvote, it's implied when you vote someone else.
Unvote.
Secretdorf
Also like, the fact that I'm third party is a given? I literally claimed survivor as my first post. You went hard on me for doing so and then derping around at the start of day. And yet in your last two posts you've been acting like you completely forgot that and like you don't know my alignment.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 09:13:19 pm
4mask, you're absolutely capable of a bold fake claim, hence the numbers I offered Toaster. But the vote on you was me half remembering a werebear serial killer and recalling a recent game where Secret claimed survivor but was a serial killer. I didn't put that much thought into it as my opening vote.Mm. Yeah my thing is more loose theory than anything, there's a reason I didn't vote you even after all those posts. I'm still uncomfortable that you even admit that your first thought was SK and not wolf because, y'know, that's exactly what my concern was, but the fact that there was an SK who claimed survivor recently ameliorates that somewhat. I'd honestly forgotten about that game despite Toony even explicitly referencing it early (lolme).
I just don't think it massively likely you'd make a scum-team play like this as your very first move. That's what makes me doubt you're on a team. But maybe I'm wrong! We've played a lot of games together but unfortunately I don't retain the details of every single play-by-play moment. Can you point to a game where you made a similar claim as your starting move? It makes sense when there's some heat or preventative to throw off the scent.
As for Secret, in this game: I want to see him post some more, so far nothing from him would give anyone a firm handle on his alignment.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 09:14:49 pm
Sort by postcount, become mafia expert, while decent advice on MU, isn't as applicable here and also isn't meant to be taken fully literally.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2021, 09:17:53 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 09:51:06 pm
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.Since when? I have reason to suspect your play right now because it's very different than normal and I've only seen your town play many, many times (besides ONUW which hardly counts).
@BlueKnight:
(https://i.imgur.com/DJStUm7.gif) SCUMSLIP ALERT SCUMSLIP ALERT SCUMSLIP ALERT (https://i.imgur.com/DJStUm7.gif)Mmm, yes. My votes give you reason to think I'm town. Which votes are those? I have not cast a vote during Day 1.Welp. I didn't mean votes - I meant prods. I got no fucking clue why I put votes.
Off from work. Expect a bigger post in a couple hours.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 10:04:00 pm
I really want to play this one but I don't have time due to lots of tests. So I request replacement. That first reads post was more a question to tricmagic than a real read. I thought that was clear. And I can see scum are jumping on me real fast but dont have time to properly play this. I really think people should unvote me as my replacement will probably do something good as they will probably have time. :DAlright. At least Persus13 said he was interested and wanted to play. The earlier the replace the better.
@4maskwolf:
NQT is genuine when he claims this I think yeah.stuffMm. Yeah my thing is more loose theory than anything, there's a reason I didn't vote you even after all those posts. I'm still uncomfortable that you even admit that your first thought was SK and not wolf because, y'know, that's exactly what my concern was, but the fact that there was an SK who claimed survivor recently ameliorates that somewhat. I'd honestly forgotten about that game despite Toony even explicitly referencing it early (lolme).
Post by: Mephansteras on February 24, 2021, 10:10:11 pm
I really want to play this one but I don't have time due to lots of tests. So I request replacement. That first reads post was more a question to tricmagic than a real read. I thought that was clear. And I can see scum are jumping on me real fast but dont have time to properly play this. I really think people should unvote me as my replacement will probably do something good as they will probably have time. :D
No worries. Maybe you'll have time whenever the next one happens!
I have pinged Heydude6 and Persus13 to see if either of them wants to take over for Secretdorf.
Post by: juicebox on February 24, 2021, 10:13:58 pm
TricI have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.What specific role name do you have then?
ToasterCould you elaborate, please? On a scale of 1-10, how convinced are you that 4mask is not on a standard scum team?I'm 9/10 4mask not being on a scum team, and 6/10 on him not being a serial killer. Scum-team players rarely draw attention to themselves unbidden like that, and claiming wererat is the correct play. I remember playing a survivor in one of Vector's games and the scum team just randomly killed me and I remember musing at the time that I'd have been better off claiming from the start to avoid that fate happening. Here's a question for you: which player is being most cautious right now?
Juicebox: vote for someone.
Since you asked NQT
I don't really feel like coming up with a full reads list atm, but so far Toony is my strongest Townread, he's been asking some good questions and trying to lead the town in the direction of finding scum. I have a slight townlean on IcyTea as well, I do like some of the questions that they've been asking, and this does remind me of their play in BYOR 14, minus the self-voting gambit.
NQT is null for me, as well as Web and Vector, Bluarian Knight,Toaster, and JG
4mask is lock Third Party for me ofc
That leaves Secretdorf and LuckyOwl, both of whom have been mostly absent for D1. It's unusual for both of them to have this little presence in the game, and I can see an argument that they're both lurking scum.
LuckyOwl: Refusing to participate in the daygame also makes you look scummy. At least if you said something that looks scummy someone could push you on it and possibly come to the conclusion that you aren't scum. As it is the only conclusion we can come to right now is that you don't want to play the game, which if not a scummy sentiment is most definitely anti-town.
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 10:23:57 pm
TricMagic:And there is a reason I tied those two.
Care to say what it is?
You're talking a lot but not saying much.
And now you're ignoring me, scum.
ToonyMan:
4maskwolf instant-claimed survivor 20 minutes into game start. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) He did not talk to anybody about doing this. Can we discredit that they aren't some other harmful third-party? No we cannot, but he's not mafia and not worth lynching today.
Yeah, that's pretty much my thought process on the matter as well. The most likely scenario is that he's telling the truth. Any other reasonable possibilities are some other third party; I wouldn't be shocked if he's a Devil, for instance. Mafia (and extremely audacious town) are possibilities far too remote to be considered any real amount.
What specifically made you change from NQT to Lucky? Do you still suspect NQT?
NQT:
ToasterCould you elaborate, please? On a scale of 1-10, how convinced are you that 4mask is not on a standard scum team?I'm 9/10 4mask not being on a scum team, and 6/10 on him not being a serial killer. Scum-team players rarely draw attention to themselves unbidden like that, and claiming wererat is the correct play. I remember playing a survivor in one of Vector's games and the scum team just randomly killed me and I remember musing at the time that I'd have been better off claiming from the start to avoid that fate happening. Here's a question for you: which player is being most cautious right now?
I'm not sold on insta-claiming being the correct play, but I can follow your logic well enough. Most cautious? Several players haven't stepped on anyone's toes or kicked up a ruckus, and it's hard to point out any one of them. Jim, Juicebox, and LuckyOwl spring to mind. On D1 the line between being cautious because you haven't seen anything convincing and cautious because you're intentionally keeping your head down is wide and blurry, so I'm not faulting anyone for it yet.
LuckyOwl:
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.
Except saying nothing also makes you look scummy. Think of it this way; if you hunt scum, you may come off looking scummy. If you refuse to participate, you definitely are acting scummy. Which is worse?
BluarianKnight: Why am I getting a feeling you're looking for easy targets?
Juicebox:
That leaves Secretdorf and LuckyOwl, both of whom have been mostly absent for D1. It's unusual for both of them to have this little presence in the game, and I can see an argument that they're both lurking scum.
LuckyOwl: Refusing to participate in the daygame also makes you look scummy. At least if you said something that looks scummy someone could push you on it and possibly come to the conclusion that you aren't scum. As it is the only conclusion we can come to right now is that you don't want to play the game, which if not a scummy sentiment is most definitely anti-town.
Oh look, you have the same scum list as BK, except you post this AFTER Secretdorf goes up for replacement. You are definitely going after easy targets.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 10:51:01 pm
What specifically made you change from NQT to Lucky? Do you still suspect NQT?Lucky is setting off my scum radar pretty hard. I'm not really a huge fan of NQT still, but they have been participating and seem more genuine.
Their readlist looks okay (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252425#msg8252425), except they think Secretdorf's reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238) are good, which I disagree.
Would you consider TricMagic an "easy target"?
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 10:58:45 pm
Good question. TricMagic isn't the hardest of targets; he's still less experienced than many players here. I don't like the nature of his claim (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251807#msg8251807) and when I pressed him on his scum reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309) he responded without a real answer. Until he convinces me otherwise, I'm happy with my vote.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 11:00:19 pm
NQT's whole response to my claim has been pretty mrrrr for one simple reason.
. . .
I get the point you're trying to make about NQT going too easy on you or giving you too much slack for your survivor claim.
What do you make of TricMagic who more aggressively doubted your claim?
I could probably go dig that up but you're posting ten times more frequently than I am so I figure you have the bandwidth to spoonfeed me.
Thinking on it, I'd propose a 4mask/Secretdorf/scumteam. One with very weird things going on and missing a member, but seeking to turn the lynch off of another.
What makes you think either of those players are trying to throw people off the other?
Jim Groovester: How quaint the suspicious people are at the bottom. Lurking, promising more later, you get the jist. Your streak may end, so best get hunting so it doesn't happen.
Dude give me a break. Not all of us have enough free time that we can make posts about the video games we've finished recently.
I could just be saying that to throw you off track you know. Why the shift to Blue without any reasoning.
Are you trying to WIFOM on purpose?
Well i guess I should get my post count up then.
I'll start by saying I believe Tricmagic's claim, they just seem genuine to me.
I think 4mask's claim is a bit more dubious however, especially when you consider the possibility of a 4mask Toaster scumteam.
For real? The guy who says 'I don't have a valuable role, please spend actions on me to confirm it' seems genuine to you?
I have to say your opinions about the believability of TricMagic's and 4maskwolf's claims are an inversion of mine.
Since you asked NQT
. . .
NQT is null for me
Why NQT when you read him as null?
I am 90%sure luckyowl is mafia this game but I am not going to press that until I have evidence.
Day ends tomorrow and LuckyOwl might not show up to give you evidence to make that assertion. 90% is a pretty strong feeling. Are you really not going to vote?
@Jim:
>has an important meeting today
>gets hammered while singing about titans the night before
>preparing for a meeting any other way
no hammers
Webadict, I meant getting intoxicated there. On beer. Hammered. Shitfaced. Drunk on the booze.Seven beers to hammer.
juiceboxIcyTea: I plan on finding scum and lynching them D2 instead.Let's assume there's good town play from other players and scum gets lynched on D1, but you can't quite take credit for it. Where do you start looking for scum on D2?
I had to follow the exchange to figure out what you were poking at here.
Is there much value in asking questions more or less to the tune of 'you already fucked up, how do you dig yourself out of the hole?'?
Jim GroovesterThe smart answer is that I would pick people who would help me win but the answer I am going to give is the people who would be funnest to have on my team.Names, Jim. Who would it be funniest to have on your team?
Firstly I said funnest, as in, most fun, not funniest. And of the players in the game I would probably pick woobadooba, ToonyMan, and Toaster.
As for funniest, I would spend the game converting LuckyOwl over and over again even if he was unconvertable and even if the conversion was successful.
JimDidn't read the thread closely but NQT's big scum team breakdown is useful but I didn't see much in the way of scumhunting or declaring reads. I have found in previous games productive gestures like that scummy when absent of meaningful scumhunting.Absolutely. I get this kind of pushback in every game where I provide information. People are always like "yeah but it's not scum reads". I'm a man for all seasons, I can do both. But I am beholden to the laws of time and space just like everyone else, so I usually can't do both simultaneously. This criticism will hold water if I do literally nothing else in the day other than be informative.
I think the criticism is a bit fairer here than in other games since as of your big breakdown post I don't think you had made much in terms of prods, questions, suspicions, or votes on other players.
Eh, your posts up to the break down were not completely contentless like I was thinking but it's still pretty light. On catching up with the thread I feel a little better about you.
IcyTea
Pressure vote or lynch vote? Not clear on the reasons if the latter.
I felt like I wasn't being pressuring enough - so I used my vote. I bandwagoned and let others lead me along last night, and I realized I probably should make a more legitimate claim before putting my vote out. It's why dropped my vote on you - I didn't have much of a claim, and my intuition told me on second-read you probably were town.
. . .
I was trying too hard at the time - again, didn't build a case, was terrible scumhunting practices I'll admit to now.
Also; parroting Web? Yeah, I did that too. I'll admit this now - I've got a bias on Web and Vector - both of them I highly respect, and I've tried to base my strategies off of their plays (wackiness + well researched posts). So, when I saw this;
. . .
I was definitely swayed by this - I'll try to keep my bias off this, but I'm willing to admit fault.
Okay you are doing nothing to make me feel less uneasy about you and in fact are doing the opposite. You are increasing my unease about you.
Mafia is not the game to fall on your sword and bend in response to pressure.
You are acting.
Mmm, yes. My votes give you reason to think I'm town. Which votes are those? I have not cast a vote during Day 1.
Off from work. Expect a bigger post in a couple hours.
Welp. I didn't mean votes - I meant prods. I got no fucking clue why I put votes.
I could and am very much tempted to accuse you of making bland reads lists without putting much thought or detail into them, and otherwise going through the motions.
@Vector: Pocketing the noob? I like that you think I exist in a vacuum, and that I can't expect people to be Town unless they are a noob. I watched all of Vengeful 14 and saw a good player. I watched YellowPixel's play, too. I will say that BK is not really a noob to me. YP is, but BK seems like their experience translates well here, so not exactly a noob. Though, I will correct something I missed yesterday: I meant to type that, within the last few games we've played, I have suspected you as Town, however, this time I feel much more solidly that this assertion is correct, especially since you hardswerved based on that accusation and OMGUSed back.
Your own readslist has a number of skilled players at the top, so obviously that wasn't my point. BK is an outsider relative to this board, thus potentially psychological vulnerable, thus good to buddy and pocket. You buddied up to them, and you didn't do the usual "if you want to take down BK, you'll go through me first!" thing you typically do as town (see HK on MU, MightyMushroom in CYOM4, repeatedly chainsawing me and LuckyOwl in various other games).
You have indeed suspected me as town on many occasions, but you have also, every single time, tried to determine if I was town, because you know that having me on your side is better than the other way around. But this time it's impossible, so you have to attack me -- tentatively, gently, because you know I haven't done anything -- and rely on thin scumtells, like "Vector playing erratically" (when have I not?).
I'm not swerving based on your accusation, kiddo. I'm swerving because you outed yourself as scum. You know that you have to come and get me. It's what we do. But you also know that I've got teeth, and this time, you sound like you're afraid to die.
This analysis confuses me mostly because its premise requires a mindset for webadict that I don't necessarily see him exhibiting.
But your attack is also directed at webadict so I have no reason to intervene on his behalf.
MINDGAMES
MINDGAMES
Alright I am going to check out of trying to understand this exchange.
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.
This seems unusually low effort for LuckyOwl.
I find Secretdorf, LuckyOwl, and BluearianKnight scummiest of the players here. Secretdorf for not voting a player he finds 90% scummy, LuckyOwl for being abnormally passive (pfeh, feels like saying Org is low content though), and BluearianKnight for making me feel like he's trying to tune his appearance a certain way but not succeeding particularly well at it.
Let's go with Secretdorf. Yeah he's being replaced whatever.
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 11:11:45 pm
I find Secretdorf, LuckyOwl, and BluearianKnight scummiest of the players here. Secretdorf for not voting a player he finds 90% scummy, LuckyOwl for being abnormally passive (pfeh, feels like saying Org is low content though), and BluearianKnight for making me feel like he's trying to tune his appearance a certain way but not succeeding particularly well at it.
Let's go with Secretdorf. Yeah he's being replaced whatever.
Really, dude? That one of those three? This is a crap vote.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 11:18:15 pm
You seem crankier than in CYOM4.
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 11:23:47 pm
I barely played CYOM4, so there's hardly any standard of comparison. I actually have more time to participate this game.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 24, 2021, 11:27:48 pm
I do find this odd.
I'm not sure about Secretdorf right now (similar to TricMagic), but what's interesting is that both of you had strong suspicions of Secret in CYOM4 (Toaster's case on Secret (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178092.msg8249858#msg8249858) / Jim's case on Secret (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178092.msg8249918#msg8249918)). All three of you were town in CYOM4 so I find it interesting that Toaster isn't getting the same "scum" pings on their radar when I think Secret has been acting about the same in this game.
The best part? Both Toaster and Jim chose to vote town!Secret over mafia!TricMagic. This is a complete flip in Toaster's behavior.
PPE:
Secretdorf played like someone who didn't have much time to give to the game, and now he's asking for a replace for just that reason. He was talky enough in Vengeful 14 and CYOM4.Hmmmm. Would you say you have a better read on Secret and Tric now?
I barely played CYOM4, so there's hardly any standard of comparison. I actually have more time to participate this game.
Post by: Toaster on February 24, 2021, 11:39:01 pm
I don't find his play here comparable to CYOM4.
Tric I need more out of, but his continued resolve to ignore my question isn't winning him any points. It's entirely a lynch vote at this point.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 11:45:18 pm
Secretdorf played like someone who didn't have much time to give to the game, and now he's asking for a replace for just that reason. He was talky enough in Vengeful 14 and CYOM4.
Maybe I'm being unfair but I don't really care.
Who should I be voting if Secretdorf is such an awful choice?
I barely played CYOM4, so there's hardly any standard of comparison. I actually have more time to participate this game.
I'll go do a spot check of BYOR15 as well but I don't get the same feeling of aggravation from those games that I get from you in this game. Okay I did a very lazy spot check and confirmed my subjective recollection.
Is this your first time being scum since your return from extended hiatus? I was cranky in BYOR15 and I was scum in that game.
Post by: Vector on February 24, 2021, 11:48:18 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 24, 2021, 11:49:05 pm
I guess I'll check that out to see if he's cranky.
Post by: webadict on February 24, 2021, 11:58:38 pm
Since you asked NQTI'm super tired, but this doesn't make any sense at all. Why are you voting NQT if you nullread them but also scumlean on two other people? What's the game plan?
...
NQT is null for me, as well as Web and Vector, Bluarian Knight,Toaster, and JG
...
That leaves Secretdorf and LuckyOwl, both of whom have been mostly absent for D1. It's unusual for both of them to have this little presence in the game, and I can see an argument that they're both lurking scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 12:13:51 am
I don't find his play here comparable to CYOM4.You sure about that? I'm seeing the same Secret in both these games, the only difference is that Secret chose not to replace out in CYOM4. He was town in that so are you saying he's mafia now?
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 12:18:54 am
(pfeh, feels like saying Org is low content though)
I LOL'd.
OK, a readslist. Players in blue are ones where I should do more work in the near future. Future-Vector, my mouth is writing a check that you're gonna have to cash. FYI the blues are not FoSes, they're mostly strong players who are currently sliding and Tricmagic.
webadict, Vector. could they be w/w? mindgames mindgames mindgames (web is right though, I got bored and I'm gonna park my vote elsewhere for now)
Secretdorf - replacing out so idgaf. I hated the readlist but they're replacing out. I haven't figured out yet what being jittery says about their alignment.
4maskwolf - apparently 3rd party so idgaf, thx for claiming, I genuinely appreciate it.
Toaster, Jim - two vets whose towniness seems to be easily measured by participation at the moment. So far they're participating.
TricMagic - I didn't exactly like the VT-claim. At this point I have zero trust of my gut regarding Tric, so, I should put more pressure here.
Toony - I think Toony is town this time but of Toaster, Jim, and Toony (who are all clustered in my head for some reason), I'd put Toony as most likely scum. He's definitely putting in the work, though.
Luckyowl - Not liking the bowing out D1 thing "yah yah I'm town" thing. Like, genuinely hate it, am tired of LYLOing with them just b/c they're un-NKable. Would gladly defenestrate D1.
juicebox - isn't lurking hardcore, therefore maybe town? or maybe finally learned their lesson?
IcyTea31 - I really don't like their D1 playstyle. We've had this conversation before. That doesn't mean they're scum. Doesn't mean they're town either.
Scumtier:
BluarianKnight - I agree with everything everyone else has been saying. I will gladly switch my vote here at EoD if the scumtells keep pinata-ing out but I think it will be more productive elsewhere for now.
Blue is doing some serious overexplaining as Jim has pointed out. For me the scummiest thing here is the strong push for low-hanging fruit.
notquitethere - NQT, you have a fair point about expectations of analysis and being in a no-win situation, but I also recall that as scum you have a habit of analyzing the setup over interactions; in the recent BYOR, you said "I'll get to it D2," whereas in Skynet's game, you made sure to have something even when, with your own style, you admittedly take time to get things rolling.
Also, you're currently voting ICT, but as far as I can tell the only reason why that's happening is because ICT called you out (for reasons you disagree with, but whatever). I guess I'll follow up with a couple of questions:
- What do you think of the rest of ICT's play so far this game?
- If ICT is scum, who else do you think is on the team?
- OK, and the vision test: who is scummier, Blue or juicebox? And why?
ICT, could we have your readslist when you're around next? And your general impression of the current conflicts?
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 12:39:51 am
So... You have level 0 suspects, but level 3 metaplays against NQT? Or is this like level 5? It's stuff like this that makes people think you're a wolf.What's going on is I'm not explaining myself very well.NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.
NQT entered the thread with a vote on my and accusing me of being an SK. This feels like an acknowledgement of my meta, as back in the days I played with him a lot that was absolutely something I would have done. But what's been bothering me throughout the day is that his first thought was that I was SK, not Mafia. Because that same meta knowledge that would lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as an SK" should absolutely have lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as mafia" because that's absolutely something I would have done. He's seen it before, when I claimed martyr as a member of the mafia team. So the fact that his first thought was "SK or survivor" and not "Mafia or survivor" feels like he came into the game knowing for a fact I wasn't mafia, so his knee-jerk reaction was "is this an SK?"
I'll be honest, I started writing this up but got busy after I saw Blue's reads. But, like... Blue's reads... Ugh. I'm not entirely sure where their thought process changed, but I'm moving them down to null for it. I don't really know what part I like the least. Is it how they Townlean juicebox and scumlean Secretdorf and Lucky for similar play? Is it the disorganized scumteam comment? Hm.
The 4mask read is fine, though, that one makes sense. But that doesn't help find scum.
ToonyMan is silly for thinking that's a scumslip from Blue, Toony can do better than that. It's just too easy to make that mistake. Go for the reads, not the silly mistakes.
Toaster... I also feel is now scumlean. I agree with their reading on Blue, but Toaster's attacks don't feel focused. Also, they're still going after TricMagic, which is a silly move. What's their endgoal? Why does it feel like they're letting some people off easily, but going hard on Tric, who is consistently scumread in every game? Tsk tsk. Ugh, Toaster going at Jim??? No, no way Jim is scum.
ToonyMan still looking Town... What do? ToonyMan too good to elim on Day 1 ever. Need to learn tells better.
Jim Groovester... Can't argue with their play. I put in Town. Not a lot of posts, but the ones that exist? Good. Going after TricMagic for legit reasons, so they have a reason to be suspicious of them. Going after Blue for legit reasons. Attempting to figure out NQT. Attempting to decipher what's happening between Vector and I. This feels solidly Town!Jim. I was gonna say "but", but there is no "but". I'm willing to say more Town than ToonyMan. Unseated by Jim again...
Boom, final assessments:
Toaster, moved down to scumlean.
BluarianKnight moved down to null.
Jim Groovester, moved up to TownREAD.
Obviously, Secretdorf down in the scumlean, but willing to change this one to Luckyowl as well.
Oh right, Luckyowl can be scumlean.
Vector can stay in scumread, not going to be surprised when they don't post reads, but poke poke poke, here's what you've wanted Vector, you want me to poke the bear. If I hold my hands over my head, I'll look bigger than I am! Actually, maybe I will be surprised, that'd be nice, Vector you are a nice person. Wow, I'm really tired.
Uggggh, ToonyMan knows their in Townlean, they could probably discotheque on us and I'd begrudgingly not vote them until Tomorrow.
notquitethere I'm will to move up out of null. I actually didn't see their read list until Toony posted it. Actually, I noticed they have Vector as Town and me as scum, so that's completely wrong. Even more actually, wow, I hate 70% of their reads. NQT, you are so wrong it hurts... Buuuuuuuuuuut... I'm still willing to put them in null. But seriously, you need better reads if you're putting Secretdorf next to Jim. Like, I get reading TricMagic as scummy because it's the default mode for TricMagic, but like, no? Am I the only one around here that can read TricMagic as Town? Ugh, I just don't know.
IcyTea31... Yeah, okay, I know I didn't read anything new from them, but I had to reassess them just in case. I'll keep them at the bottom of Townlean, I'm okay with that. I think voting them is silly today.
juicebox, stay in the scumzone.
4maskwolf, obviously stay where you at. Well, I mean technically you doing pretty alright for now, so I guess you're basically Town-enough that it's likke you're a scumlean but you know what I mean.
I'm still mad at NQT's reads, they are all sorts of wrong.
PPE: Well, look at that, Vector did post. TricMagic, wrong. IcyTea31, wrong(ish). Toony more likely scum than Toaster, wrong. NQT... Okay, maybe fair, can't fault Vector for that one, NQT has one of the wrost readslist out of all the good players here. I think the attack on NQT is wrong, but the suspect isn't. Blue as SCUMTIER??? Nah, that's wrong, Vector's only doing that to rile me up, they're a wily scamp at best.
Eh, could've been worse. At least they moved their vote, but their FoS game needs work.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 12:43:05 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 12:54:44 am
notquitethere - NQT, you have a fair point about expectations of analysis and being in a no-win situation, but I also recall that as scum you have a habit of analyzing the setup over interactions; in the recent BYOR, you said "I'll get to it D2," whereas in Skynet's game, you made sure to have something even when, with your own style, you admittedly take time to get things rolling.I think you're forgetting that I was technically scum in the Skynet game. Yeah, canonically Sarah Connor is the hero, and I felt heroic going up against everyone, but I wasn't town in that game. Do you think my posts after posting the info post have been low in interaction?
Also, you're currently voting ICT, but as far as I can tell the only reason why that's happening is because ICT called you out (for reasons you disagree with, but whatever).I'm voting them because their line of attack was bizarre and wholly fabricated, a complete nonsense-tier case. Someone asked if this was a pressure vote or a real vote: it's pressure that could become a lynching vote depending on Icy's next move.
I guess I'll follow up with a couple of questions:1. Fine. Nothing outstanding but mostly compatible with being town. Feels a bit "correct play" orientated, bit by the numbers. But on D1 without any info, that's forgivable to an extent. Ball has to get rolling somehow. 2. Any relationship speculation I did now would be worthless, there isn't enough information yet. 3. Juicebox is completely reactive, low profile, no pressure. Scum or weak town. Blue is paying attention and pushing, but their play feels a bit... telegraphed. On balance, Juicebox.
1. What do you think of the rest of ICT's play so far this game?
2. If ICT is scum, who else do you think is on the team?
3. OK, and the vision test: who is scummier, Blue or juicebox? And why?
Jim see above regarding IcyTea
Juicebox that's a cute vote but vote for someone you actually have a case on.
Everyone, LuckyOwl doesn't even want to phone it in right now. Straight up open lurking. I don't know how to take that. If scum!Lucky, I'm sure their team would coach against them doing that but I'm also sure that Lucky wouldn't read closely or act upon anything in a quicktopic.
Not liking how people are wagoning Secret who doesnt have time to give the game right now and has replaced out, over players who are in the game and refuse to do any scum hunting.
Every D1 there's the easy lynch that town can fall into by default and the scum can sit back on their laurels and get easy progress. Today I'm convinced that default target is Secret. Structurally it doesn't feel right. Everyone knows I've said this before in previous games and I was right before about this. But if you don't think Secret is the easy lynch that scum are happy with, then which current lynch candidate is it?
Web, it's D1, I'm sure I'll hate my reads too by D2 when I have something more solid to work from, but I'm standing by for now.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 01:38:42 am
I'm trying to compare/contrast your behavior in the BYOR vs. Skynet/Mostly Vanilla. I know you were scum in Skynet, and in Skynet you were focused on the setup and made sure to look like you were taking an active role. In BYOR, you just said "yeah, I'll get rolling later."
Now, I recognize that this is a vote which is on the surface seeming to punish you for pro-town behavior (or at least the illusion of it): "you're scummy because you're more active than normal." There's a little more to it than that, but I want to recognize the situation.
I have more stuff I want to ask you, but that is going to wait on conversation from ICT.
Web, I hope you feel better soon...
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 02:09:06 am
Okay I see the point you're making now and I get the reasoning (scum!nqt tried to be good town, town!nqt was content to wait until d2). But you're forgetting how D1 of that BYOR turned out. Sure, I gave myself a bit of breathing room, saying I'd get rolling on D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177586.msg8226807#msg8226807), but I actually stepped up my game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177586.msg8227446#msg8227446), and tried to push an alternative wagon (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177586.msg8228644#msg8228644) on a player who actually turned out to be scum. Being actively engaged and resisting sleepwalking into easy town deaths is exactly what I'm trying to do with the pushback against this Secret wagon
And look, moreover, as a player should I try to always be playacting the role of how I was in previous games to satisfy people's meta read? I can only take this game on it's own terms.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 25, 2021, 02:22:18 am
Quote from: Jim Tabulated Vote Count
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
IcyTea31: notquitethere, TricMagic
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
Secretdorf: webadict 4maskwolf BluearianKnight Jim Glory Days Groovester
TricMagic: Toaster
notquitethere: juicebox Vector
Secretdorf is the lazy lynch
Who's the smart choice then?
The day ends tomorrow evening which isn't that much time to figure this out, especially for productive members of society like myself.
In fact I expect not to be around when the deadline rolls by.
Secretdorf - replacing out so idgaf. I hated the readlist but they're replacing out. I haven't figured out yet what being jittery says about their alignment.
Slots up for replacement can be scum.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 02:34:34 am
Spoiler: Previous count (click to show/hide)
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31 [1]
IcyTea31: notquitethere [1]
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan [2]
Secretdorf: webadict, TricMagic, 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Jim [5]
TricMagic: Toaster [1]
notquitethere: juicebox, Vector [2]
Content to let mafia win: LuckyOwl [1]
- Icy on Blue is fine.
- NQT on Icy will need revisiting before day end, but I'm obviously inclined to think justified for now.
- Secret and Toony are fine to want to lynch Lucky.
- I don't like the Secret wagon one bit. My educated guess is at least 40% of the wagoners aren't town. 4mask we know, and then maybe Tric?
-Toaster is fine to suspect Tric.
-Juice has no case, is just being obvscum. Vector is playing 4d meta read chess, but I suspect they will come around.
-Lucky is the worst (no offense LO, I think you're swell and I'm pleased to have you take part in this game and play with us, but you are also the worst). But the thing is, I could see a town!lucky make the same play, unfortunately. I'm inclined to say wait until D2. Absolutely do not let Lucky decide lylo.
Mephansteras, I think you missed this vote from Tric. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277)
Jim, do you think Lucky and Juicebox are less scummy than Secret?
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 03:52:30 am
And look, moreover, as a player should I try to always be playacting the role of how I was in previous games to satisfy people's meta read? I can only take this game on it's own terms.
I know that, and that's why I said:
Now, I recognize that this is a vote which is on the surface seeming to punish you for pro-town behavior (or at least the illusion of it): "you're scummy because you're more active than normal." There's a little more to it than that, but I want to recognize the situation.
I have more stuff I want to ask you, but that is going to wait on conversation from ICT.
No, you don't have to play into your own meta (obviously). But I don't want to let you slide like I did the last ... few ... times. I'll get more into it when ICT shows up, as mentioned.
Slots up for replacement can be scum.
I know. Haha, coming from you: believe me, I know. I agree that Secretdorf is not looking great, but I thought I could read them and then spent the entire last game I played with them tunneling them into the floor while missing that NQT was scum.
Thing is, I think they're an easy lynch. I don't necessarily think that the people who want them gone are scum, but on the Easy Lynch Little Data List (basically the policy lynch list) I prefer to go for LuckyOwl. I don't think they've ever gotten taken out D1 and I am dead tired of them deciding LYLO. Juicebox, at the least, is learning.
Like, let me put it this way. Do I think the scumteam is secret/lucky/juicebox? Actually, no. Problem here though is that it's going to be hard to play through the end of the game with all 3 of them alive. If we have to mislynch today, which is looking likely without any good counterwagons and just, a lot of D1 nonsense, we should trim the tree a little.
And ... honestly, since we could get persus or heydude replacing in, and I can't actually read Secret off of, what, 4 posts, I'd rather take out the person who hasn't asked for a replace and has no apparent desire to play their wincon (whatever that is).
Post by: Secretdorf on February 25, 2021, 07:16:11 am
As my last words, I'll say tricmagic is most likely scum but I am not voting for them because other people think they are town and also they could be lying as town because their claim is simply a lie and I don't know why they are being townread by some people.
Luckyowl's play so far in this game is almost opposite to their town play. Why is that not clear to people? When they are town, they are scumhunting and not just keep saying they are town. I at least tried to post my thoughts on the game but the large amount of content is almost impossible for me to read and properly process and analyze due to already less time I have due to RL. Many of my reads so far are slightly influenced by other reads which I considered genuine. Therefore, I'll say that any town player voting me should immediately unvote me because if you dont, then persus or heydude will likely have to claim which will be not good for town. As an alternative lynch, I'll propose luckyowl or tricmagic. Oh and toonyman's probably town too.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 25, 2021, 07:38:55 am
That's interesting, but for clarity, I'm curious about your general reads. You've been following up on RVS questions for a while.
ICT, could we have your readslist when you're around next? And your general impression of the current conflicts?
webadict: Active scumhunting wants me to give a town read, but my gut screams at that.
Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.
TricMagic: I still can't make sense out of Tric's play. The no-power claim is a lie, they're far too enthusiastic to have rolled something actually uninteresting. Lynchable.
ToonyMan: Content mostly seen second-hand, but matches town!Toony in meta.
BluarianKnight: New-ish, townish but oddly scatterbrained and not fully into it. On the edge of lynchable, need to analyze further, especially as I don't know their meta.
Luckyowl: Not enough content. Lurking as a conscious choice. Lynchable.
Secretdorf: Not enough content. Very odd reads. Lynchable.
4maskwolf: I'm willing to trust the survivor claim for now, just to save effort.
Toaster: Active scumhunting; townish.
juicebox: Low-effort play. Somewhat scummy. Lynchable.
Jim Groovester: Good posts, if few in number. No real complaints.
notquitethere: Provided currently irrelevant information instead of starting scumhunting early. Improved since then but still on the edge of lynchable.
As you can see, I don't have very much certainty yet on reads, which is why I was holding off on making a list.
As for the current conflicts, I think the Vector/webadict spat is genuine and unlikely to be w/w, the rest have points below.
notquitethere
From noticing that scum!NQT had not been participating in the early scumhunting, and if the town joins in on speculating currently-irrelevant mechanics, from scumhunting ourselves. You didn't answer the question: what use is that post for town on this Day, and why was it more critical to spend time and effort on it than on your early participation?What are we supposed to take away from the scumteam speculation? Wouldn't it have been better to do it on, say, D2 or D3 when we've had some flavour hints and possibly a dead scum team member, rather than on D1 when we don't? This early, it mostly strikes me as a distraction and a waste of time.I'm terribly sorry I provided useful information critical for playing this game as town a day earlier than strictly required. I could die this night and then how would I post this useful information? Who else is going to do the homework? I'm trying to right an information asymmetry between players that have played this game (who could be scum) and everyone else.
But look, let's follow this thought of yours. What event is scum!NQT distracting us from?
Secretdorf: I like their reads post; looking forward to seeing more of himFor convenience: SD (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238),Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277).
Tric: I don't agree with their reads at all.
What do you like about SD's reads? They disagree with yours on several points, and only have explanations for the reads on two players, webadict and BluarianKnight.
Meanwhile, you say you disagree with Tric's reads, but they agree with SD's reads on webadict and BluarianKnight. Which of Tric's reads do you disagree with the most?
BluarianKnight
To the scumhunt;Of course RVS questions are loaded. They're conversation-starters, and making them twisty enhances the amount of thought people put into them. True scumhunting can't begin before a conversation does.
There's a difference between asking pointed questions, and asking loaded questions - and you were asking the latter. It didn't feel like you were scumhunting - but trying to get any reason to twist folks words. That's at least my feeling on the matter - and it's why I put my vote to you at the beginning.
Quote
Also, as for the buddying thing;Missed, probably. I generally work with quoted posts in isolation, focusing on whomever I'm talking with. Also, now that I'm looking at it, you should have specified that snippet; I don't generally consider flattery buddying, unless it's directed at the target and not spoken aside them. For the original question, I don't think it's massively telling, especially since you were able to notice it. Webadict seems to have read your past games, and would probably go about pocketing you in another way as scum.BluarianKnight: I'll be completely honest in saying I've been watching them in Vengeful, but I'm very much a fan of this Blue Knight. I think they're a solid Townlean in spite of ToonyMan and 4maskwolf because they're defo Town.
This is what I meant. It was only a short scroll above the post you quoted from me.
So, another question to you, IcyTea - did you miss Web's post, or purposely ignore it?
juicebox - Low postcount, but I think he's not lurking or scumming - just not the big-post sort, which isn't bad. Town to me for now.Why is juicebox town with a low amount of content, but Luckyowl isn't? With the emphasis your readslist puts on slips, wouldn't it be natural to look at the ones who haven't given the chance to make slips?
Luckyowl - My read from previous research and games with him is completely off to the guy I see now - You're lurking, and from what I can tell for no good reason. I've got a decent guess you're trying to stay under the radar for some reason, which leads me to believe scumlean.
Luckyowl
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town.Not saying much is one of the scummiest things you can do. Even if you don't think you have much insightful analysis to make, please at least participate in the conversation so people can get a read on you. Least you could do is say who you think is the scummiest and who the most trustworthy.
Jim Groovester
Is there much value in asking questions more or less to the tune of 'you already fucked up, how do you dig yourself out of the hole?'?Not much beyond seeing how far ahead juicebox is thinking, RVS fare.
Quote
Firstly I said funnest, as in, most fun, not funniest. And of the players in the game I would probably pick woobadooba, ToonyMan, and Toaster.Boring answer, but fair.
Quote
As for funniest, I would spend the game converting LuckyOwl over and over again even if he was unconvertable and even if the conversion was successful.Is this wishful thinking, or do you actually suspect scum has a conversion mechanic?
Post by: juicebox on February 25, 2021, 08:30:32 am
After going over the thread, I'm going to move Jim and Vector into my townlean pile.
After looking back on the Vector/Web interactions, Vector seem to me to be trying to feel Web out and get a read on his alignment. I think they made a genuine observation the Web was playing off town meta and was making an attempt to determine whether that was due to Web's alignment being different.
Webadict on the other hand, while I'm not ready to put him in the town pile based on that interaction, I'm sure if he's scum either.
Jim, while he hasn't posted much, has made some decent points. in response to his question to me, It's partly because I believe Town!Tric would make that claim, and partly because I think there's a decent possibility that there may be a VT in this game.
Post by: juicebox on February 25, 2021, 08:39:47 am
Secretdorf's attempt to shift votes onto seem rather desperate to me. Was going to give them the benefit of the doubt since they were asking for a replacement, but I think I'd be comfortable voting them now.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 09:23:36 am
TricMagic:TricMagic:And there is a reason I tied those two.
Care to say what it is?
You're talking a lot but not saying much.
And now you're ignoring me, scum.
I was. And this reaction at least makes it so I can put you in town-lean.
My reasoning is that their act could be Icytea pushing dorf simply cause they have to to look town. But the two of them still work together. It can be noted that the switch from joking about people being Mafia to townlean in the other readlist is a reason. But nothing I've seen from IcyTea has removed their first impression from me. Tying them together isn't improbable either, with SD being a low poster and Icytea taking advatage of it for town points. Webadict did that to me one time, though different circumstances.
I'm not in favor of a Blue lynch though, and would remind them to read their posts for errors in the words like that. There are better lynches in my opinion.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 09:33:07 am
I'm not in favor of a Blue lynch though, and would remind them to read their posts for errors in the words like that. There are better lynches in my opinion.I take it you read blue town, then? What's brought you to that interpretation?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 09:34:43 am
-shrug- If I'm not wolf I can't choose what reads I have. Lacking TMI and attempting to townside means my reads are whatever catches my attention and makes me think "this is a wolf" or "this is a town".So... You have level 0 suspects, but level 3 metaplays against NQT? Or is this like level 5? It's stuff like this that makes people think you're a wolf.What's going on is I'm not explaining myself very well.NQT's entire analysis of me basically feels like it's lacking any kind of actual analysis based on his knowledge of my previous play and is just the most clinical possible analysis in order to read my claim as legitimate in hopes of getting me on his good side.Are people seriously suspecting you? That's incredibly silly. There's no point right now.
NQT entered the thread with a vote on my and accusing me of being an SK. This feels like an acknowledgement of my meta, as back in the days I played with him a lot that was absolutely something I would have done. But what's been bothering me throughout the day is that his first thought was that I was SK, not Mafia. Because that same meta knowledge that would lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as an SK" should absolutely have lead to "4mask might actually claim survivor as mafia" because that's absolutely something I would have done. He's seen it before, when I claimed martyr as a member of the mafia team. So the fact that his first thought was "SK or survivor" and not "Mafia or survivor" feels like he came into the game knowing for a fact I wasn't mafia, so his knee-jerk reaction was "is this an SK?"
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 09:36:04 am
unvoteDid you ever explain why you voted NQT, someone you said in the same post was a null read along with like half the game?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 09:44:58 am
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down...NQT's whole response to my claim has been pretty mrrrr for one simple reason.
. . .
I get the point you're trying to make about NQT going too easy on you or giving you too much slack for your survivor claim.
What do you make of TricMagic who more aggressively doubted your claim?
I could probably go dig that up but you're posting ten times more frequently than I am so I figure you have the bandwidth to spoonfeed me.
Sure, why not. As Tric began to accuse me of being a wolf with increasingly nonsensical accusations I started reading him as more townie, for the simple reason that fake scumhunting a survivor is a pretty pointless endeavor for a wolf, and frankly it felt like it was following the precedent set by "let's kill town so I can get hats". I'm starting to doubt that read though for the simple reason that while I'd expect the veteran players to follow along with "not scumhunting the survivor as a wolf" I'm increasingly unable to convince myself that wolf!Tric wouldn't OMGUS me off my push, survivor claim or no. Someone with more knowledge of how Tric plays would probably have a better read on him but I've only played a few games with him so I don't have the best read there.
Also that wasn't quite my point on NQT but meh, it's not super important now. He explained it well enough and I'm willing to sheep Toony on "he's probably telling the truth".
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 09:45:51 am
Sorry, my brain wasn't working for a second, that was clearly a meme vote in response to him asking you to vote.unvoteDid you ever explain why you voted NQT, someone you said in the same post was a null read along with like half the game?
New question: why did you make an RVS vote so long after RVS has already ended.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 10:04:58 am
Secretdorf does reveal a bit of info however, and is my top scum-pick. Jim seems to be creeping up there, but Juicebox is definitely scum-read at this point of the thread. I'm at Vector's LOL read post at the moment.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 25, 2021, 10:08:03 am
I'm starting to doubt that read though for the simple reason that while I'd expect the veteran players to follow along with "not scumhunting the survivor as a wolf" I'm increasingly unable to convince myself that wolf!Tric wouldn't OMGUS me off my push, survivor claim or no. Someone with more knowledge of how Tric plays would probably have a better read on him but I've only played a few games with him so I don't have the best read there.Tric absolutely is the kind of player who would OMGUS you off a push, survivor claim as no, as any alignment. I wouldn't take it as alignment-indicative.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 25, 2021, 10:44:34 am
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
IcyTea31: notquitethere
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
notquitethere: Vector
Secretdorf: BluarianKnight, Jim Groovester, juicebox, TricMagic, webadict
TricMagic: Toaster
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 10:47:04 am
2 more drinks to hammer. I like this tally, it will give a lot of info for the future.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 10:48:23 am
Juicebox: "I think I'd be comfortable voting them now." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Today I will support a LuckyOwl or a Juicebox lynch. Secret was correct about Lucky in their last post.
Literally anyone, does anything Juicebox has come out with make sense from a town POV?
Icy
From noticing that scum!NQT had not been participating in the early scumhunting, and if the town joins in on speculating currently-irrelevant mechanics, from scumhunting ourselves. You didn't answer the question: what use is that post for town on this Day, and why was it more critical to spend time and effort on it than on your early participation?My early participation was ruled out by injuring my leg and as I don't own a time machine it's useless to speculate how best I could have that early time. But once I got into the thread, as promised, I have provided actual hunting as well as the information. So your purely hypothetical criticism proved unfounded. Why was it best to do this on D1? I don't know why you would think it's irrelevant at this stage. It's highly relevant whether 4mask is telling the truth, what role a fakeclaiming Tric could actually have, what kind of third parties we're facing, the fact that scum teams can have town roles etc. Giving people this information up front can stop a lot of misconceptions.
Do you really think a scum!NQT would think it a priority to publicise the possible composition of the scum teams? Scum want town to forget that vampires are cultists, or that cultists can be mafia, or that hunters can hunt things not in the game.
Are you really persisting with this bizarre line? C'mon. Just admit spending a non-trivial amount of time informing the town what the threats could be is not actually a scum tell.
For convenience: SD (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238),Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277).I don't expect to agree with any player about everyone, but Secret was close to my thoughts on Blue, Web, Lucky and Jim. Tric I think is wrong about Secret, Lucky, Juicebox, Jim. It seems especially bizarre to give a free pass to Juice and Lucky when anything they can accuse Secret of doing (lurking? low content?) is equally or more true of Juice and Lucky.
What do you like about SD's reads? They disagree with yours on several points, and only have explanations for the reads on two players, webadict and BluarianKnight.
Meanwhile, you say you disagree with Tric's reads, but they agree with SD's reads on webadict and BluarianKnight. Which of Tric's reads do you disagree with the most?
TricMagic
I like this tally, it will give a lot of info for the future.What will you conclude if you lynch Secret and he turns out town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 10:51:34 am
I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with it though as more and more people pile on for terrible reasons.
I'm also concerned that blue has been scumread by quite a few people and viewed as trending down by several more but everyone is basically just going ":sparkleshrug: give blue one more day."
Blue
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 10:52:37 am
Literally anyone, does anything Juicebox has come out with make sense from a town POV?Not especially, no, and I'm completely happy with that slot dying today.
inb4 someone's like "you're a survivor, you're fine with anyone dying" as if I haven't made my intent to townside clear.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 10:55:05 am
Tric, Vector, of the three wagons (Secret, Blue, Lucky) which do you favour? What about Juice?
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 10:57:25 am
As I have not been replaced yet, I'll say that I am being lynched due to thinking I am lurking scum, but I am not. Scum are jumping on me because I am not defending myself and townies think I am the perfect lynch target. I would have claimed but I am not because scum will know how to kill me which is bad for town. Luckyowl's probably a far better target than I but he is on the scumteam so scum are not fueling a lynch on him. I think NQT is probably town because theyre not going for the easy lynch.
As my last words, I'll say tricmagic is most likely scum but I am not voting for them because other people think they are town and also they could be lying as town because their claim is simply a lie and I don't know why they are being townread by some people.
Luckyowl's play so far in this game is almost opposite to their town play. Why is that not clear to people? When they are town, they are scumhunting and not just keep saying they are town. I at least tried to post my thoughts on the game but the large amount of content is almost impossible for me to read and properly process and analyze due to already less time I have due to RL. Many of my reads so far are slightly influenced by other reads which I considered genuine. Therefore, I'll say that any town player voting me should immediately unvote me because if you dont, then persus or heydude will likely have to claim which will be not good for town. As an alternative lynch, I'll propose luckyowl or tricmagic. Oh and toonyman's probably town too.
To NQT, easy target would be Blue or LO. In LO's case, no info is gained from their lynch. At all. We'd be going into Day 2 just as confused as Day 1. (Except those with investigative roles and mafia)
LO is an easy lynch, and one without any info gained from it. They are obviously suspicious, but investigative roles can check them out to see if it pans out any.
Also, ToonyMan is town is not a very hot take. And not good for town doesn't mean much. A lot of power roles are like that.
4mask, you are proving my point of Blue being an easy target at this moment. Are you sure you're not a wolf?
NQT, who do you think? And why would you even ask that question of me when my opinion is clear? Also throwing a Juicebox redirection into our paths.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 10:58:40 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 11:02:52 am
It looks like as the day end approaches some people attempt to manipulate the vote away from secret for their own reasons. Quiet may mean a dead town, but this isn't quiet is it?...What is this take? Day doesn't end for more than 24 hours (It's like 33 hours rn). DADV isn't even as applicable here because our meta isn't the same as most sites and it's literally never applicable this far from deadline. Even if you thought day ended in nine hours it's still way too early to do DADV, even on Bay12.
This is either hella wolfy or a really, really mistaken town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 11:04:00 am
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 11:10:35 am
TricMagicI like this tally, it will give a lot of info for the future.What will you conclude if you lynch Secret and he turns out town?
This one is easy. Someone on this list is scum. Blue, Jim, and Juicebox with web read town for now. For investigative roles, they have 5 targets instead of everyone, and we can start narrowing down who is town-aligned and who is scum. As we find town, the list will narrow down. I'm on it too, but such is the price of info when you can't investigate yourself.
On the flipside, a Mafia reveal will also offer quite a bit of information. Specifically those pushing against it like yourself.
It's, like, the most basic level 0 take, but Tric could 100% be a wolf with blue.
Hua... I'd be fine with a 4mask vote though, it's stuff like this that makes me think he isn't a survivor but a wolf.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 11:12:37 am
You sure you want to thunderdome the survivor?It's, like, the most basic level 0 take, but Tric could 100% be a wolf with blue.
Hua... I'd be fine with a 4mask vote though, it's stuff like this that makes me think he isn't a survivor but a wolf.
Because I'd be happy to dome with you.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 11:18:17 am
For convenience: SD (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238),Tric (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277).I don't expect to agree with any player about everyone, but Secret was close to my thoughts on Blue, Web, Lucky and Jim. Tric I think is wrong about Secret, Lucky, Juicebox, Jim. It seems especially bizarre to give a free pass to Juice and Lucky when anything they can accuse Secret of doing (lurking? low content?) is equally or more true of Juice and Lucky.
What do you like about SD's reads? They disagree with yours on several points, and only have explanations for the reads on two players, webadict and BluarianKnight.
Meanwhile, you say you disagree with Tric's reads, but they agree with SD's reads on webadict and BluarianKnight. Which of Tric's reads do you disagree with the most?
Check the time of LO's 'I'm going to openly lurk' with my own readlist. Those two get nulls because nothing stands out, but LO had posted before that, and based on past behavior I gave them a tentative town-lean. And as the days progressed I expected to get more from him. I still do even with this open-lurk gambit. If he fails to showcase anything, then he gets lynched, but not before on day 1. He's a low info lynch through and through, and you are scummier for suggesting such lynches.
You sure you want to thunderdome the survivor?It's, like, the most basic level 0 take, but Tric could 100% be a wolf with blue.
Hua... I'd be fine with a 4mask vote though, it's stuff like this that makes me think he isn't a survivor but a wolf.
Because I'd be happy to dome with you.
I'm not sure what that is besides the context clues I've gotten. Don't I need a claim to enter the Thunderdome? This is more hunting a wolf before they decide to kill me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 11:21:28 am
Interesting response.You sure you want to thunderdome the survivor?It's, like, the most basic level 0 take, but Tric could 100% be a wolf with blue.
Hua... I'd be fine with a 4mask vote though, it's stuff like this that makes me think he isn't a survivor but a wolf.
Because I'd be happy to dome with you.
I'm not sure what that is besides the context clues I've gotten. Don't I need a claim to enter the Thunderdome? This is more hunting a wolf before they decide to kill me.
Typically thunderdomes arise around mechanical claims, yes, but they don't have to. We could try and force the town to pick between us right now if you'd like. It might not work, but if you're so confident that I'm a wolf fakeclaiming survivor, what do you have to lose?
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 11:56:59 am
Tric, Vector, of the three wagons (Secret, Blue, Lucky) which do you favour? What about Juice?
Definitely Lucky, but I'll be completely honest that it's primarily about *really* not wanting to LYLO with them again, especially if they're not going to bother participating D1. Every unit of time that they don't post makes them look worse (or more appetizing, I guess).
So that this isn't all about policy, I don't think we should wagon Secret when they're up for replace and bothered to come back and make another post. Blue and Juice are ... idk, at least trying. I'm not going to shed tears over any of them getting tossed D1, but I think we have the most to gain from wagoning Lucky.
If they come back and try to defend themselves because they think they're about to die, we'd at least get some data.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 12:11:59 pm
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 12:15:04 pm
I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 12:20:48 pm
Perhaps, but here is mine. Trying to shift a vote onto you is both a waste of time and will get me lynched as webadict said. So we'd go into Day 2 down a town and having to lynch you then. But you happen to be third party as a wolf or survivor, so that doesn't help town at all. I'm poking you because you are acting like that, not because I think lynching a lone wolf day 1 is a good idea. Once again, no info is gained from this unless you happen to be mafia making a bold fake-claim, which is somewhat unlikely.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
In the same vein, a LO vote gives no info, and web is a little scummier for going with it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 12:24:31 pm
The fact that you have any scenarios where I get lynched in the first two days is adorable. I only have to worry about the noose if we're too slow in finding wolves, because then the town is going to start tinfoiling on me. It's why I'm putting so much effort into scumhunting now, so we don't reach that situation.Perhaps, but here is mine. Trying to shift a vote onto you is both a waste of time and will get me lynched as webadict said. So we'd go into Day 2 down a town and having to lynch you then. But you happen to be third party as a wolf or survivor, so that doesn't help town at all. I'm poking you because you are acting like that, not because I think lynching a lone wolf day 1 is a good idea. Once again, no info is gained from this unless you happen to be mafia making a bold fake-claim, which is somewhat unlikely.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
In the same vein, a LO vote gives no info, and web is a little scummier for going with it.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 12:28:25 pm
That is fair, but I also think Tric is an easy target and that they are probably Town.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 12:29:19 pm
I'd like to be able to reach that conclusion myself and confirm for myself that my earlier clearing of him for his accusations of me weren't in error, because I'm still not convinced.That is fair, but I also think Tric is an easy target and that they are probably Town.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 12:30:04 pm
The fact you proposed a thunderdome is disturbing, as it would require town to lynch both of us when we have to find mafia. That's where this scenario is born from, not anything else. And all I see is you pushing for low-info lynches to drag out the days. Which fits survive wincon and wolf to a degree.The fact that you have any scenarios where I get lynched in the first two days is adorable. I only have to worry about the noose if we're too slow in finding wolves, because then the town is going to start tinfoiling on me. It's why I'm putting so much effort into scumhunting now, so we don't reach that situation.Perhaps, but here is mine. Trying to shift a vote onto you is both a waste of time and will get me lynched as webadict said. So we'd go into Day 2 down a town and having to lynch you then. But you happen to be third party as a wolf or survivor, so that doesn't help town at all. I'm poking you because you are acting like that, not because I think lynching a lone wolf day 1 is a good idea. Once again, no info is gained from this unless you happen to be mafia making a bold fake-claim, which is somewhat unlikely.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
In the same vein, a LO vote gives no info, and web is a little scummier for going with it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 12:36:38 pm
Interesting to hear that secret, a lynch I was quite big on for most of yesterday, is a low info lynch, considering you've been big on that wagon as the big-shot high info lynch.The fact you proposed a thunderdome is disturbing, as it would require town to lynch both of us when we have to find mafia. That's where this scenario is born from, not anything else. And all I see is you pushing for low-info lynches to drag out the days. Which fits survive wincon and wolf to a degree.The fact that you have any scenarios where I get lynched in the first two days is adorable. I only have to worry about the noose if we're too slow in finding wolves, because then the town is going to start tinfoiling on me. It's why I'm putting so much effort into scumhunting now, so we don't reach that situation.Perhaps, but here is mine. Trying to shift a vote onto you is both a waste of time and will get me lynched as webadict said. So we'd go into Day 2 down a town and having to lynch you then. But you happen to be third party as a wolf or survivor, so that doesn't help town at all. I'm poking you because you are acting like that, not because I think lynching a lone wolf day 1 is a good idea. Once again, no info is gained from this unless you happen to be mafia making a bold fake-claim, which is somewhat unlikely.I am also okay with swapping to Luckyowl. I haven't seen anything worth defending, and I'm very baffled still by Blue's defense of them.When I'm prodding at people to reaction test them and get a better sense of their thought processes it's annoying when someone gives them the answer.
@Tric: If you vote 4mask, you're probably gonna get elimmed, and I won't help because it's giving up on scumhunting to vote 4mask.
In the same vein, a LO vote gives no info, and web is a little scummier for going with it.
Interesting that you completely ignored the salient point in that post which is that it's in my best interests to end the game quickly so the town doesn't kill me over a tinfoil.
Also, you seem to be selectively ignoring everything in my posts except the parts that support your ideas, even before you responded I made it clear I was looking for a reaction and not an actual attempt at getting a thunderdome started. In what world would a survivor, or a wolf for that matter, genuinely want to thunderdome D1. Or basically ever, except a wolf at LYLO who thinks they'll win.
Everyone else: is the complete moon logic Tric's been spewing about me alignment indicative? I've not played as many games with him as most of you have so I'd like some input.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 12:51:12 pm
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
IcyTea31: notquitethere
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
notquitethere: Vector
Secretdorf: BluarianKnight, Jim Groovester, juicebox, TricMagic, webadict
TricMagic: Toaster
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
I'm just getting a bit tired of you and was using the latest sheet to make that observation. That sort of logic happens when you rile me up.
Does survivor win if mafia is eliminated before their day? I was under the impression otherwise up till now.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 25, 2021, 12:52:44 pm
Out of curiosity blue how many games here have you read?Overall? I'd say a few dozen - but as of recent only around 6-7 games fully
BluarianKnight: Why am I getting a feeling you're looking for easy targets?
I felt like I wasn't being pressuring enough - so I used my vote. I bandwagoned and let others lead me along last night, and I realized I probably should make a more legitimate claim before putting my vote out. It's why dropped my vote on you - I didn't have much of a claim, and my intuition told me on second-read you probably were town.
. . .
I was trying too hard at the time - again, didn't build a case, was terrible scumhunting practices I'll admit to now.
Also; parroting Web? Yeah, I did that too. I'll admit this now - I've got a bias on Web and Vector - both of them I highly respect, and I've tried to base my strategies off of their plays (wackiness + well researched posts). So, when I saw this;
. . .
I was definitely swayed by this - I'll try to keep my bias off this, but I'm willing to admit fault.
Okay you are doing nothing to make me feel less uneasy about you and in fact are doing the opposite. You are increasing my unease about you.
Mafia is not the game to fall on your sword and bend in response to pressure.
You are acting.Mmm, yes. My votes give you reason to think I'm town. Which votes are those? I have not cast a vote during Day 1.
Off from work. Expect a bigger post in a couple hours.
Welp. I didn't mean votes - I meant prods. I got no fucking clue why I put votes.
I could and am very much tempted to accuse you of making bland reads lists without putting much thought or detail into them, and otherwise going through the motions.
Picking lurkers is not a bland or easy read.
How am I aiming for low-fruits? Hell, at this rate anyone I feel are scum could be 'low-fruits'. Lucky and Secret are playing in a way completely different then what I saw them do in Vengeful - even if they're busy, Secret's been half-assing his posts, and Lucky has barely interacted. Maybe they've both suddenly gotten busy after signing up, but I don't believe that.
Taking into consideration of recent events, I'll gladly switch some things around;
Tric - going to null for me. What the fuck are you doing here? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252656#msg8252656) It doesn't seem town to me. Maybe an honest mistake, but dropping it down.
Juice - Scum. Call it a 'low-ball' after everyone's called it, but copying my readlist is even worse then my own half-assed attempt.
Vector - Still null.
Jim - Still town. For the same reasons - he's scumhunting and hasn't tried any odd moves.
Notquitethere - solid town green.
Webadict - Townlean, going at scumhunt.
Secret - Could be excuses, but I'm willing to switch my vote for now.
Luckyowl - Scum, or at least lynchable.
4mask - Confusing the shit out of me still - I don't think he's town-friendly, but isn't scum.
@4mask - I've only played one game with Tric, but looking over his playstyle.. I don't think it's indicative of scumplay.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 12:54:29 pm
Survivor wins if I survive until the end of the game, whenever that happens. What you're thinking of is called a Watcher, who has to see the game reach a certain day, and is basically never used on Bay12 (or anywhere else for that matter).The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
IcyTea31: notquitethere
Luckyowl: Secretdorf, ToonyMan
notquitethere: Vector
Secretdorf: BluarianKnight, Jim Groovester, juicebox, TricMagic, webadict
TricMagic: Toaster
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
I'm just getting a bit tired of you and was using the latest sheet to make that observation. That sort of logic happens when you rile me up.
Does survivor win if mafia is eliminated before their day? I was under the impression otherwise up till now.
That sheet was also wrong, I'd changed my vote to secret quite a few pages back and only changed it back to blue after the votecount was made.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 01:02:46 pm
Everyone else: is the complete moon logic Tric's been spewing about me alignment indicative? I've not played as many games with him as most of you have so I'd like some input.Maybe. Tric is always singing from a different songsheet. They could just be flailing town, right now I would say broadly not indicative. But I don't like it.
Tric
A survivor wins when the game ends and the game ends when town or a scum faction wins. A survivor can be mildly pro-town in this setup as there are serial killers that both the town and survivors need to defeat.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 01:08:17 pm
A survivor wins when the game ends and the game ends when town or a scum faction wins. A survivor can be mildly pro-town in this setup as there are serial killers that both the town and survivors need to defeat.There are Serial Killers is an interesting take considering that there have been several supernaturals (including at least one this size, I got off my ass and skimmed the role sheets for previous games just for this post) with no SKs at all.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 01:12:59 pm
NQT, who do you think? And why would you even ask that question of me when my opinion is clear? Also throwing a Juicebox redirection into our paths.I want a Juice lynch most of all. Lucky would be okay. How is trying to get players to consider a player as scum a "redirection"?
Vector
Definitely Lucky, but I'll be completely honest that it's primarily about *really* not wanting to LYLO with them again, especially if they're not going to bother participating D1. Every unit of time that they don't post makes them look worse (or more appetizing, I guess).This position is reasonable.
So that this isn't all about policy, I don't think we should wagon Secret when they're up for replace and bothered to come back and make another post. Blue and Juice are ... idk, at least trying. I'm not going to shed tears over any of them getting tossed D1, but I think we have the most to gain from wagoning Lucky.
If they come back and try to defend themselves because they think they're about to die, we'd at least get some data.
4mask
You're correct. I meant "if there are" or "as there are possible". That said, there's a reasonable chance of there being an SK by the end of the game, as corrupted resurrections can create them.A survivor wins when the game ends and the game ends when town or a scum faction wins. A survivor can be mildly pro-town in this setup as there are serial killers that both the town and survivors need to defeat.There are Serial Killers is an interesting take considering that there have been several supernaturals (including at least one this size, I got off my ass and skimmed the role sheets for previous games just for this post) with no SKs at all.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 01:14:44 pm
4maskSide note, I'm not sure it's a hard and fast rule but it looks like warlocks revive into demons disturbingly often.You're correct. I meant "if there are" or "as there are possible". That said, there's a reasonable chance of there being an SK by the end of the game, as corrupted resurrections can create them.A survivor wins when the game ends and the game ends when town or a scum faction wins. A survivor can be mildly pro-town in this setup as there are serial killers that both the town and survivors need to defeat.There are Serial Killers is an interesting take considering that there have been several supernaturals (including at least one this size, I got off my ass and skimmed the role sheets for previous games just for this post) with no SKs at all.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2021, 01:17:47 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 25, 2021, 01:52:06 pm
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31
juicebox: notquitethere
Luckyowl: BluarianKnight, Persus13, ToonyMan, webadict
notquitethere: Vector
Persus13: Jim Groovester, juicebox, TricMagic
TricMagic: Toaster
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday.
Persus13 is replacing in for Secretdorf.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 01:53:16 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 25, 2021, 02:01:27 pm
I'll unvote Secretdorf/Persus13 by virtue of him actually showing up and bothering at all which is more than LuckyOwl has done based on my skim over of the thread.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 02:02:14 pm
I plan to be around at day-end but I have a buncha homework I need to do now.
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 02:05:04 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 25, 2021, 02:05:31 pm
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 02:10:29 pm
Damn it, really? You guys ae really going to vote Luckyowl?
*shrug* Look, they're awful to LYLO with and that almost made them into a D1 policy-lynch. Add "I'm just not gonna do D1" to that? Nah. Like, we haven't seen a big scumslip so far other than this kind of disengagement, so we might as well roll.
What's your other recommendation -- 4mask or something? Don't make me laugh.
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2021, 02:17:24 pm
I've only read a little bit of the first part of D1 before playing, so the biggest thing that stands out so far is that 4maskwolf claimed survivor, specifically a wererat and that caused some ruffled feathers?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 02:18:27 pm
Damn it, really? You guys ae really going to vote Luckyowl?Yes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 02:24:52 pm
But the first thing I thought when I read that post from Persus was that he'd asked his scumbuddies for a quick summary and that's his interpretation of it. It's just a weird takeaway from actually reading up to the point in the game where I claimed wererat, people were more grumpy about my memeing about than about the claim itself and by the time I claimed wererat it was already more or less accepted.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 02:25:22 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2021, 02:26:29 pm
Quote from: Version 3
webadict: Slight Town read. Don't expect any analysis on this cause after vengeful my memory on the first day of the game is fuzzy. [Recent postings have led me to believe him Town-aligned, so.]
Vector:Vector doesn't get a read or a color. Ties to webadict yes, but no color. Null-read.Scum-lean. Eh, Luckyowl is not the best, and giving a joking suggestion that will get someone lynched hard is not the best indicator. His own feelings on webadict also come into play here.
TricMagic: Naturally I cannot give comments on my own alignment. Ifyou read ths, have a cookie.
ToonyMan: Town read. Previous post says it all, and none of their other posts dispute it for me. This hasn't changed and if anything has solidified over the past day or so.
BluarianKnight: Null. Seems town-like. But his voting seems more like taking my advice on using your vote literally and liberally. There is the whole parrot thing 4mask points out. On the whole, I'll tentatively place them as town for the sake of narrowing down the list. [Recent vote comes off as trying to get out of being lynched. It's working, but not to my preference. Particularly when the vote was going for dorf at the time. While suspicious, could be indicative of someone town without any info. But they still get dropped a spot.]
Luckyowl: Town-ish. This will likely solidify as we enter future days with less people. [Seriously, why Luckyowl? Do you not trust webadict to pick out a scumowl if we get there?]
Secretdorf/Persus: Top scum-pick of today. Few posts, a joke post, and a readlist with more scum on it than can fit in this game, and few to no town. Persus has subbed in, you had best work quickly.
4maskwolf: Survivor, third party wolf throwing shade, or scum. You can decide, but any votes on him won't do much.[I will get to the rest of your post later, it's just that one point I wanted to address while I got going](after these posts, I'm almost certain he is not a survivor. Third party, but not survivor. Werebear isn't something I was aware existed, but such a claim I made is anti-wincon for it if I was. And going after it anyway is completely useless as it's a third-party role that would only trigger off of being targeted. Just ignore it and hunt scum. You can't take the chance you can't actually do SOMETHING to me though, so you want to lynch me, the only thing that would bypass this supposed power.) [Slowly but surely slipping farther and farther into the red.]
Toaster: Null. Unlike last time, do have info on you. If it weren't for web you'd be a town-lean. So there is that going for you.
juicebox: Null. Like Toaster. I need to see more from you to gain an opinion. [Still null]
Jim Groovester: How quaint the suspicious people are at the bottom. Lurking, promising more later, you get the jist. Your streak may end, so best get hunting so it doesn't happen. [Still sus, if only slightly for now.]
IcyTea31: Gut instinct that your posts were wrong. And now you are using yours, so... Kinda leaning away from you for now, but you will end up higher if secretdorf is scum.
notquitethere: Still notquitehere. Leaning more to scummyness than towniness, but not to the point you get a blue color. [Now you get a blue color. And a tie to Icytea for your guilt/innocence.]
I like how the vote shifted to another person though, predicted that early blue. Doesn't matter if there is nearly a whole 24 hours give or take. The vote can still be shifted..
Persus... That doesn't help you at all. Why sub in if you can't do much? Aren't you hiding behind dorf's posts at this point?
More ninjas.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 02:33:56 pm
In LO's case, no info is gained from their lynch. At all. We'd be going into Day 2 just as confused as Day 1. (Except those with investigative roles and mafia)I refuse to accept this logic. This logic prevented obvscum!Leafsnail being lynched on Day 1 of BYOR15 which still makes me mad.
LO is an easy lynch, and one without any info gained from it. They are obviously suspicious, but investigative roles can check them out to see if it pans out any.No.
Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.
It's, like, the most basic level 0 take, but Tric could 100% be a wolf with blue.I could see it.
This is probably the wrong take.Sounds like a wrong take to me.
But the first thing I thought when I read that post from Persus was that he'd asked his scumbuddies for a quick summary and that's his interpretation of it. It's just a weird takeaway from actually reading up to the point in the game where I claimed wererat, people were more grumpy about my memeing about than about the claim itself and by the time I claimed wererat it was already more or less accepted.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 02:42:28 pm
Information gained from LO's lynch at this point includes "people desperately trying to defend LO" and "the sweet satisfaction of knowing we don't have to LYLO with them." If LO is genuinely busy: fine, they can say that. But they haven't said that. What they've said is that they'll do better later, with no evidence in this game or any other game that they have the intent or inclination to do better later.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 02:44:07 pm
I like how the vote shifted to another person though, predicted that early blue. Doesn't matter if there is nearly a whole 24 hours give or take. The vote can still be shifted..I don't know whether you realize this.
But people change their votes throughout the day.
Experienced wolves don't get nervous about their own being up on the block until the very last second. Hell, even town sometimes will abuse the tendency of people to not vote on someone who was an early wagon to their advantage. I know I have.
More than 24 hours left in the day is not "last minute" and wolves won't put in any special effort to get votes off their buddy that far from deadline. No matter how much you think someone is a wolf, wagon movement with a day left in the... well, day, isn't actually a scumclaim by the person you're suspecting, nor by those involved in the vote movement.
PPE:
Like: this entire idea of wasting investigative roles on people who are not engaging and playing badly on D1 doesn't make sense. We want a hit on someone who plays well but would be hard to lynch, or to clear Webadict, or whatever.I don't hate the idea of getting removing the risk of the LYLO Owl, there are a lot of ways I could accept losing but to a coinflip isn't one of them.
Information gained from LO's lynch at this point includes "people desperately trying to defend LO" and "the sweet satisfaction of knowing we don't have to LYLO with them." If LO is genuinely busy: fine, they can say that. But they haven't said that. What they've said is that they'll do better later, with no evidence in this game or any other game that they have the intent or inclination to do better later.
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2021, 03:08:26 pm
It also completely glosses over things like Tric's claim which also happened during that time period.Correct, because my point was that I've basically skimmed over a lot. I needed to post something to let people know I was here and be able to use something to interact with me. So it glosses over things because I completely missed Tric claiming. I imagine Tric probably didn't use any boldface typing in his claim. When I read through more closely I'll check that out, thanks for that.
Persus... That doesn't help you at all. Why sub in if you can't do much? Aren't you hiding behind dorf's posts at this point?Its not supposed to help me, its supposed to let you all know that I'm going to be in intermittently, which is still better than a player who decided not to play the game anymore (not that there's anything wrong with that). I told Meph a few hours ago "I'm busy this weekend, but I'll replace in if heydude can't" and now I'm here.
I can give you some benefit of the doubt since you were voting Superdorf already, so I can understand being suspicious of me. But this comes across as trying to justify having a case against me for decisions I made before knowing my role.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 03:33:24 pm
Of course, you're going to ignore this, same as you always do, because it doesn't fit your narrative that somehow me making a note you might be an SK and that being concerning to me is somehow wolfy. Because lolTric.
Post by: Toaster on February 25, 2021, 04:39:04 pm
Who should I be voting if Secretdorf is such an awful choice?
I'd really like to hear some logic and persuasive arguments from you. I'm seeing you glom on to the easy target, and I know you're better than that.
Is this your first time being scum since your return from extended hiatus? I was cranky in BYOR15 and I was scum in that game.
Like Vector said, I was scum in Exquisite, and I inexcusably lurked my way to victory there.
Toony:
I don't find his play here comparable to CYOM4.You sure about that? I'm seeing the same Secret in both these games, the only difference is that Secret chose not to replace out in CYOM4. He was town in that so are you saying he's mafia now?
I didn't say he was mafia; I said I had a null read on him. However, his at least attempt (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595) to make something happen while about to be replaced out is a few points in his favor. I mean, the post is a bit hard to follow and contains him not voting his top pick because other people think said top pick is down, but it's at least an attempt- something that someone like LuckyOwl has not done.
Persus has replaced in so it's a bit moot; I'll have to wait for Persus to post a bit more before anything useful materializes out of that read, but the carryover from Secret is near-null for me.
TricMagic: Oh hey, you finally answered me. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252621#msg8252621) I basically don't see your connection at all, and think your reasons for voting Secret are bad.
LO is an easy lynch, and one without any info gained from it. They are obviously suspicious, but investigative roles can check them out to see if it pans out any.
Also, ToonyMan is town is not a very hot take. And not good for town doesn't mean much. A lot of power roles are like that.
Why are you so concerned about the night game, Mr. Vanilla Townie? Who is your current top pick of anyone not named Luckyowl, Secretdorf, or 4mask?
I'm totally okay with a Luckyowl lynch at this point, but I suspect there is better. I have a couple things to check.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 25, 2021, 04:41:43 pm
Looking at how the wind is blowing towards lynching one of the low-activity players, I think juicebox is where I want my vote to be right now, as only NQT is pushing for that one. If correct, it'd be so unlikely to be a bus that it'd core NQT in my book. I'm fine with a Luckyowl lynch, too.
In the high-activity pool, I like NQT the least, followed by Vector, but I don't think either of those is solid enough to go for the lynch right now.
notquitethere
Literally anyone, does anything Juicebox has come out with make sense from a town POV?Can't say it does.
Quote
But once I got into the thread, as promised, I have provided actual hunting as well as the information. So your purely hypothetical criticism proved unfounded.Sure, I'll give you that. Did you notice my elephant repellent worked, too?
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Why was it best to do this on D1? I don't know why you would think it's irrelevant at this stage. It's highly relevant whether 4mask is telling the truth, what role a fakeclaiming Tric could actually have, what kind of third parties we're facing, the fact that scum teams can have town roles etc. Giving people this information up front can stop a lot of misconceptions.4mask: "survivor is a possible role, a past game had it". Tric's true role: "Tric's true role isn't guessable at this point, and only scum are interested in it". Third party composition: "only 4maskwolf has claimed a third-party role, and survivor is possible, anything else is pointless speculation before the Night". Scum with town roles: "roles aren't alignment-indicative". None of these questions required much research of past games to answer, and I would argue that they don't provide much material to performing the ever-elusive D1 scum lynch.
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Do you really think a scum!NQT would think it a priority to publicise the possible composition of the scum teams? Scum want town to forget that vampires are cultists, or that cultists can be mafia, or that hunters can hunt things not in the game.Scum!NQT would think it a priority to do anything that looks like being busy, when true scumhunting is impossible. The possible composition of the scum team is not a valuable piece of information, especially this early, especially when your analysis leaves so many possibilities that it's still essentially unguessable.
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Are you really persisting with this bizarre line? C'mon. Just admit spending a non-trivial amount of time informing the town what the threats could be is not actually a scum tell.Spending a non-trivial amount of time on something only tangentially useful to the town when that same time could be used on something directly useful to the town is not a towntell, and when it's done by a player with a heavy burden of experience, it sinks to a scumtell pretty easily.
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I don't expect to agree with any player about everyone, but Secret was close to my thoughts on Blue, Web, Lucky and Jim.Jim? SD's thoughts on Jim were literally "probably town or probaly not town".
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It seems especially bizarre to give a free pass to Juice and Lucky when anything they can accuse Secret of doing (lurking? low content?) is equally or more true of Juice and Lucky.I agree. Why are you giving Secretdorf a free pass?
4maskwolf
Everyone else: is the complete moon logic Tric's been spewing about me alignment indicative? I've not played as many games with him as most of you have so I'd like some input.As far as I can tell, it's an attempt to break the game for town, which is a good look.
Persus13
Do you think the information in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) is useful to town right now?
What do you think of webadict's play? I've been trying to figure out why my gut doesn't like it.
Post by: Toaster on February 25, 2021, 05:21:39 pm
BluarianKnight: Okay, let me break it down a bit more here:
RVS post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251901#msg8251901). Whatever, standard RVS fare.
RVS answer (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251905#msg8251905). Just a response to a barely game-related question.
First "real" post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251916#msg8251916). Jump on 4mask for his survivor claim and not answering on your query as to why, when he had already done so (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251912#msg8251912).
Backing off 4mask vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251958#msg8251958). No new vote or case to replace. It's noteworthy at this point that it's clear there's no appetite for a 4mask lynch here.
Answering more questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251985#msg8251985). No new case.
First read post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127). Actually presents a new argument against IcyTea, with vote to match. Tags Webadict as well.
More answers to questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252406#msg8252406). Lots of untrimmed quotes make this post look huge when it isn't. IcyTea has responded to the above vote, and there's a reply to Icy here.
Second read post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252467#msg8252467). Votes Secretdorf. IcyTea is now Townlean, Web is unknown, and Luckyowl is also scum. Icy has not yet replied to the above question.
Clarification (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252475#msg8252475).
Third read post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252697#msg8252697). Jim and I have both said BK looks like he is looking for easy targets here, and BK responds to this. Backs off Secret onto Luckyowl, Web's now fairly town, and Icy is absent from this list.
Conclusions? There's a lot of words and not much analysis going on here. BK is bouncing around low hanging easy to target targets, SecretDorf and LuckyOwl. The only attack that appeared genuine was against IcyTea, but BK backed off it far too easily for my tastes; some of their interaction hadn't resolved before the vote moved, and now BK isn't addressing IcyTea. What's more, I'm not sure where BK's...
Notquitethere - solid town green.
read of NQT came from. Yes, there is this from the second read post:
Notquitethere - Strong, strong town vibes. Not as active, but has been asking good questions, and very researched posts.
...but I'm not sure what good questions BK is talking about here.
So, BluarianKnight: What, specifically, has NQT done to make you get a town read? What happened to your case on IcyTea?
NQT: What are your thoughts on BluarianKnight and IcyTea?
IcyTea: What are your thoughts on BluarianKnight and NQT? I see your above posts, but I want you to spell it out.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 25, 2021, 05:43:58 pm
IcyTea: What are your thoughts on BluarianKnight and NQT? I see your above posts, but I want you to spell it out.BluarianKnight I'm mixed about, especially as they're a new acquaintance. On one hand, their play has been about what I'd expect from noobtown. On the other, their use of jargon implies more experience than I've given them credit for. Jim's argument about it being an act is tempting, and I'd consider them lynchable.
For notquitethere, my issue is mostly about the one big post which looks a lot like a smokescreen and his reactions to me questioning its relevance. The rest of their play isn't much that I wouldn't expect from him as either alignment. The case isn't strong enough to convince the vets on its own, but I'm planting a flag on it for later.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 05:51:08 pm
Post by: juicebox on February 25, 2021, 06:13:51 pm
Post by: juicebox on February 25, 2021, 06:18:23 pm
Post by: juicebox on February 25, 2021, 06:21:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 06:27:46 pm
Strong Town
Jim Groovester - This is town Jim.
Webadict - My eyes kind of just glaze over when I see them responding to Vector. I think it looks like MVM2 though which makes me think they're both town so let's go with that. Also likes to buddy me extremely hard as town.
Weak Town
Vector - See above, although if one is mafia I would say Vector over Web. Anger of 4mask seemed genuine.
Juicebox - This looks like town!Juice to me, e.g. CYOM4.
TricMagic - Feels like town Tric to me, probably. I would dock more town points if this wasn't Tric acting like this.
IcyTea - Seems okay, I don't like their case on NQT.
TBD
NQT - I don't know, I'm always wrong about NQT. My first instinct is they're mafia, but that makes me think they're town. Gonna put them as the "cleanest" here.
Secretdorf/Persus13 - Secret is very newbie, but looks like newbie town to me. CYOM4.
Scum
Toaster - Weird behavior, don't trust at all.
BluarianKnight - Opportunistic scum. Not taking any chances after reading Vengeful 14, looks the same to me.
Luckyowl - I've never seen Lucky behave like this before. I've played at least half a dozen games with town!Lucky recently so it makes me heavily suspect. Newb scum.
Mafia
Third-Party
4maskwolf, like...80% sure they're survivor, 15% they're lying but another third-party, 5% chance they're actually mafia and their scum buddies started kicking them in scum chat.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 06:35:49 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 25, 2021, 06:51:29 pm
Secondly; could you elaborate on that Toaster feel?
Jim - You've recently unvoted, but haven't put a new vote down. Who are you leaning to vote on, and why?
Icytea - Your recent post shows your dislike of NQT's 'smokescreen' posts, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252831#msg8252831) when your own posts can (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252599#msg8252599) easily be claimed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) the same type of smokescreening. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) Unless I misunderstand, your posts are just about as cluttered and hard to read as his at points, so could you elaborate?
@Toaster
Spoiler: Responding to this; (click to show/hide)
Intuition. If we look back at where he finally starts to post, he keeps up votecounts, scumhunts fairly well, and hasn't shown himself any major scumslip so far. I've no major reason not to believe he's town yet.
As for Icytea? The only major thing he's given me to make me feel scum since the start is my initial reaction. I don't have any more ammo against him - and just saying 'I feel it' doesn't feel worth enough to toss my case out. Other people have my suspicions more, so he was dropped due to lack of evidence.
@Toony
Spoiler: Reacting to his readlist (click to show/hide)
Can you explain your Juice town vote? It goes against most other read-lists, so I'm interested why you think he's not null or scumlean.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 07:53:58 pm
BluarianKnight: Okay, let me break it down a bit more here:No. I'm not voting Blue, especially not over someone like juicebox, Secretdorf, or Luckyowl, and if you seriously think that those three are better to have alive right now than Blue, I'm astounded.
Luckyowl I'll vote BluarianKnight if you vote BluarianKnight. Or post. Or do anything.See above. Like, juicebox has scum equity, they're a fair elimination. Luckyowl has scum equity by virtue of having negative town equity, and will eventually take up all of our time Tomorrow debating whether what they did Today was acceptable. Secretdorf/Persus13... Look, I'm willing to wait on Persus because I forgot while I was writing this that Persus13 had replaced in. I only saw a post or two but Lucky and juice haven't done anything noteworthy Today.
The point of Day 1 is to get our general feelings out and use those later on. Luckyowl's lack of content is always going to be a point against them. But what Vector said earlier is correct: Don't waste Town resources on inactives, especially when we'll just vote them out anyway.
This situation just reminds me so much of NSVM2 where we moved away from juicebox who was lurking scum to vote for Caz because Caz was being suspicious, and I would rather we vote Luckyowl or juicebox for it, and if we follow that pattern, we're gonna end up voting out Bluarian or TricMagic, who I believe are both Town, or at least have the capabilities to be readable.
Webadict: What exactly is the reason for your scumlean on Toaster? I can't find anything in their posts to suggest they might be scum.Toaster's attacks are fairly broad, shotgun attack to see what sticks, and in general, anyone that really thinks TricMagic is scum (or at least worthy of being eliminated today) is scummy, ESPECIALLY if it's related to the VT claim, which makes even less sense than going after TricMagic for being standard TricMagic. Oh, and on top of that, Toaster suspecting Jim Groovester of all people. That one is insane! Jim has Town equity out the wazoo, and even if Jim is somehow scum, Jim should still be alive at Lylo... Blah, blah, caveat that Jim continues what they're doing, CMA. Call it crazy. Call it what you want, but Jim's seriously throwing punches, and they're hitting well.
It'd be the same if you went after ToonyMan. Look, I could have concrete proof that ToonyMan is a serial killer, and I'd still be suspicious of anyone going after them because they are just too productive. Plus, even if ToonyMan is scum, ToonyMan busses their teammates pretty hard, so I have even less to worry about.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's just a solid readlist.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 25, 2021, 08:23:37 pm
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, Toaster
juicebox: IcyTea31, notquitethere
Luckyowl: BluarianKnight, ToonyMan, Vector, webadict
Persus13: TricMagic
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 08:44:08 pm
Toony: I like your readslist. Can you expand a little on why Toaster's behavior is weird and you don't trust them at all? Do you think Toaster's monster post is bussing BK?I'll have more to say on this after Lucky posts. If they don't post, then well...my vote stays.
@Blue:
Toony - Why are you giving luckyowl an out, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252838#msg8252838) when your scum radar felt otherwise? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252508#msg8252508) Feels like a quick switch.Fret not, I'll have more to say on this in a bit.
Can you explain your Juice town vote? It goes against most other read-lists, so I'm interested why you think he's not null or scumlean.I was mafia partners with him in MVM2, his cases were bad and he didn't actively participate. I don't see that here.
@Webadict:
Plus, even if ToonyMan is scum, ToonyMan busses their teammates pretty hard, so I have even less to worry about.Hah, true.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:22:16 pm
Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.
yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 09:25:12 pm
What about BK?
What do you think the mafia team are in this game?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 09:28:31 pm
The question is whether town!Lucky would stay quiet as priest...
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:34:59 pm
@Luckyowl:
What about BK?
What do you think the mafia team are in this game?
I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read.
I believe your priest claim. You breadcrumb it here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252432#msg8252432)
The question is whether town!Lucky would stay quiet as priest...
I personally wanted to stay quiet for two reasons. First I wanted go off and play games with few hours I have to myself and two I am afraid that I would get night killed all I hope is that someone can protect me as I res Web if he turn out to be town with his lynch. Sadly. I doubt anyone would join in with my plan, but it's the only way I can confirm myself as a town player by bringing a possible town player and make them a powerful confirmed town player. If we lynch a scum! Web then that too confirms me.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 09:38:42 pm
I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read.
Like, worst possible take. These are all powerful players and if you think Webadict is town, it would make more sense to lynch someone who at least you think is scum and then rez them if you're wrong.
The other problem here is that people change alignments when rezzed sometimes.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:38:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 09:40:45 pm
2. You think the mafia team is me, IcyTea, and NQT, but want to lynch Webadict.
3. If you're a scum priest you would most likely resurrect that player back as scum I believe, unless the res goes wrong and they switch alignments (or stay town even? has that happened?)
PPE:
Vector here first.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:41:34 pm
I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read.The other problem here is that people change alignments when rezzed sometimes.
Well...damn you're right. That too worries me. I just hope everything go as plan.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 09:43:28 pm
Sorry if that question wasn't clear. What I meant is what kind of mafia team do you think? Vampires, cult, werewolves, that kind of thing.What do you think the mafia team are in this game?I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 09:45:30 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:47:31 pm
1. You purposely stayed quiet because of your role? That's not something I've ever seen you do as town.
2. You think the mafia team is me, IcyTea, and NQT, but want to lynch Webadict.
3. If you're a scum priest you would most likely resurrect that player back as scum I believe, unless the res goes wrong and they switch alignments (or stay town even? has that happened?)
PPE:
Vector here first.
1. I mean, I have done that before in my first mafia game Paranormal 26. Where I said I didn't want to engage until day 2 then I ended up soaking up day 1 discussion.
2. Because getting a confirmed Town! Web back is better in my opinion. I mean lynching you is fine. But I'm more worried with Web hiding underneath the radar.
3. well, if lynch Scum! Web and he is back in the game on day 2 wouldn't that just be backwards on my part?
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 09:49:25 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:52:31 pm
Sorry if that question wasn't clear. What I meant is what kind of mafia team do you think? Vampires, cult, werewolves, that kind of thing.What do you think the mafia team are in this game?I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read.
oh my bad, not really sure. It's not easy to know just yet we would have to wait and see as the game progress. I mean, what does Vampire scum do on day 1? or what does a cult scum team do as well? probably the samething as any scumteam: act as town. So I'll answer your question with I don't know as I am not familar with this set up nor have a gut feeling on what type of scumteam we have.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 09:55:07 pm
. . . In what universe is Web hiding underneath the radar? I fought with him specifically so that we wouldn't have to go through this.
But couldn't your fight had just been staged? I have to doubt everyone. Vector. Just because you fought with him doesn't mean all checks out. You know that very well.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 10:02:14 pm
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.I think the claim is probably legit, I noticed the soft when he first said it (though I assumed monster hunter at the time). He could still be a scum priest, but... meh? I guess we'll need to see, if the town has a monster hunter it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to gank lucky after his revive just to make sure.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 10:04:26 pm
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.Eh? I have no idea what mechanics exist in this game mode, nor do I understand the rez mechanics, so I'm not sure if my opinion counts for much, but I'd honestly rather not chance it, if only because I'm a prime target to be inspected N1 anyway.
Let me Mamobo a second, because I really got about 30% done with my read through before I got distracted.
Post by: Mamobo on February 25, 2021, 10:05:18 pm
Lurker Track
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4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251254#msg8251254) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251422#msg8251422) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251456#msg8251456) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251531#msg8251531) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251549#msg8251549) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251771#msg8251771) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251794#msg8251794) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251797#msg8251797) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251804#msg8251804) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251811#msg8251811) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251815#msg8251815) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251818#msg8251818) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251823#msg8251823) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251834#msg8251834) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251838#msg8251838) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251839#msg8251839) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251843#msg8251843) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251858#msg8251858) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251888#msg8251888) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251895#msg8251895) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251898#msg8251898) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251904#msg8251904) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251910#msg8251910) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251911#msg8251911) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251912#msg8251912) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251918#msg8251918) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251919#msg8251919) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251926#msg8251926) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251930#msg8251930) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251934#msg8251934) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251936#msg8251936) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251944#msg8251944) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251962#msg8251962) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251965#msg8251965) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251966#msg8251966) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251968#msg8251968) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251973#msg8251973) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251987#msg8251987) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251995#msg8251995) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252005#msg8252005) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252256#msg8252256) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252259#msg8252259) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252269#msg8252269) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252274#msg8252274) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252284#msg8252284) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252293#msg8252293) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252303#msg8252303) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252305#msg8252305) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252308#msg8252308) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252313#msg8252313) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252319#msg8252319) 53 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252435#msg8252435) 54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252437#msg8252437) 55 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252443#msg8252443) 56 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252444#msg8252444) 57 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252445#msg8252445) 58 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252478#msg8252478) 59 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252479#msg8252479) 60 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252480#msg8252480) 61 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252481#msg8252481) 62 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252623#msg8252623) 63 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252624#msg8252624) 64 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252625#msg8252625) 65 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252628#msg8252628) 66 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252629#msg8252629) 67 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252650#msg8252650) 68 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252651#msg8252651) 69 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252657#msg8252657) 70 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252658#msg8252658) 71 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252663#msg8252663) 72 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252666#msg8252666) 73 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252681#msg8252681) 74 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252683#msg8252683) 75 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252687#msg8252687) 76 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252691#msg8252691) 77 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252699#msg8252699) 78 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252705#msg8252705) 79 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252709#msg8252709) 80 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252726#msg8252726) 81 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252749#msg8252749) 82 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252750#msg8252750) 83 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252765#msg8252765) 84 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252772#msg8252772) 85 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252942#msg8252942) Last post was less than an hour ago.
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251210#msg8251210) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251901#msg8251901) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251905#msg8251905) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251916#msg8251916) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251958#msg8251958) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251985#msg8251985) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252406#msg8252406) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252467#msg8252467) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252468#msg8252468) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252475#msg8252475) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252697#msg8252697) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252875#msg8252875) Last post was 3 hours ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251304#msg8251304) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251796#msg8251796) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251802#msg8251802) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251857#msg8251857) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252247#msg8252247) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252250#msg8252250) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252299#msg8252299) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252307#msg8252307) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252323#msg8252323) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252366#msg8252366) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252599#msg8252599) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252640#msg8252640) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252793#msg8252793) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252831#msg8252831) Last post was 4 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251279#msg8251279) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252136#msg8252136) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252150#msg8252150) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252348#msg8252348) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252474#msg8252474) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252511#msg8252511) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252515#msg8252515) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252524#msg8252524) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252526#msg8252526) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252546#msg8252546) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252729#msg8252729) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252738#msg8252738) Last post was 7 hours ago.
juicebox - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251276#msg8251276) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251570#msg8251570) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251976#msg8251976) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252206#msg8252206) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252237#msg8252237) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252372#msg8252372) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252497#msg8252497) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252612#msg8252612) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252613#msg8252613) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252856#msg8252856) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252859#msg8252859) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252861#msg8252861) Last post was 3 hours ago.
Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251211#msg8251211) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252130#msg8252130) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252132#msg8252132) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252135#msg8252135) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252432#msg8252432) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252927#msg8252927) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252929#msg8252929) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252933#msg8252933) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252935#msg8252935) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252936#msg8252936) Last post was less than an hour ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251310#msg8251310) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251816#msg8251816) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252258#msg8252258) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252263#msg8252263) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252381#msg8252381) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252425#msg8252425) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252450#msg8252450) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252539#msg8252539) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252545#msg8252545) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252547#msg8252547) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252648#msg8252648) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252653#msg8252653) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252702#msg8252702) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252707#msg8252707) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252713#msg8252713) Last post was 8 hours ago.
Secretdorf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251245#msg8251245) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251575#msg8251575) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252071#msg8252071) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252238#msg8252238) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252477#msg8252477) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595) Last post was 14 hours ago.
Toaster - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251275#msg8251275) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251421#msg8251421) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251434#msg8251434) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251805#msg8251805) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251837#msg8251837) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251900#msg8251900) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251924#msg8251924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251929#msg8251929) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252292#msg8252292) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252499#msg8252499) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252510#msg8252510) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252513#msg8252513) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252517#msg8252517) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252522#msg8252522) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252789#msg8252789) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818) Last post was 4 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251184#msg8251184) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251406#msg8251406) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251429#msg8251429) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251452#msg8251452) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251593#msg8251593) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251788#msg8251788) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251808#msg8251808) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251810#msg8251810) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251902#msg8251902) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251907#msg8251907) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251915#msg8251915) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251925#msg8251925) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251932#msg8251932) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251942#msg8251942) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251964#msg8251964) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251967#msg8251967) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251972#msg8251972) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251977#msg8251977) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251994#msg8251994) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252075#msg8252075) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252134#msg8252134) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252140#msg8252140) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252231#msg8252231) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252241#msg8252241) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252242#msg8252242) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252264#msg8252264) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252317#msg8252317) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252320#msg8252320) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252329#msg8252329) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252412#msg8252412) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252413#msg8252413) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252422#msg8252422) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252485#msg8252485) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252492#msg8252492) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252508#msg8252508) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252520#msg8252520) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252531#msg8252531) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252746#msg8252746) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252758#msg8252758) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252838#msg8252838) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252866#msg8252866) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252912#msg8252912) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252920#msg8252920) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252921#msg8252921) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252928#msg8252928) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252930#msg8252930) Last post was less than an hour ago.
TricMagic - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251170#msg8251170) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251569#msg8251569) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251807#msg8251807) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251822#msg8251822) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251826#msg8251826) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251846#msg8251846) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251869#msg8251869) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251956#msg8251956) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252074#msg8252074) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252270#msg8252270) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252273#msg8252273) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252280#msg8252280) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252289#msg8252289) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252291#msg8252291) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252301#msg8252301) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252318#msg8252318) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252384#msg8252384) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252391#msg8252391) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252621#msg8252621) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252638#msg8252638) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252647#msg8252647) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252655#msg8252655) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252656#msg8252656) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252660#msg8252660) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252665#msg8252665) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252682#msg8252682) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252689#msg8252689) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252696#msg8252696) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252735#msg8252735) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252753#msg8252753) Last post was 7 hours ago.
Vector - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251167#msg8251167) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251368#msg8251368) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251529#msg8251529) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251617#msg8251617) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251853#msg8251853) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251854#msg8251854) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251887#msg8251887) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251891#msg8251891) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251897#msg8251897) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251941#msg8251941) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251982#msg8251982) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251983#msg8251983) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251999#msg8251999) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252096#msg8252096) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252139#msg8252139) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252350#msg8252350) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252351#msg8252351) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252352#msg8252352) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252377#msg8252377) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252525#msg8252525) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252535#msg8252535) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252543#msg8252543) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252568#msg8252568) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252676#msg8252676) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252732#msg8252732) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252741#msg8252741) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252764#msg8252764) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252869#msg8252869) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252926#msg8252926) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252932#msg8252932) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252934#msg8252934) Last post was less than an hour ago.
webadict - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251165#msg8251165) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251485#msg8251485) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251490#msg8251490) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251547#msg8251547) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251787#msg8251787) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251789#msg8251789) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251803#msg8251803) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251814#msg8251814) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251835#msg8251835) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251878#msg8251878) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251917#msg8251917) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251975#msg8251975) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251991#msg8251991) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252004#msg8252004) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252057#msg8252057) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252129#msg8252129) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252145#msg8252145) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252243#msg8252243) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252316#msg8252316) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252374#msg8252374) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252417#msg8252417) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252419#msg8252419) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252440#msg8252440) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252441#msg8252441) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252529#msg8252529) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252537#msg8252537) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252538#msg8252538) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252679#msg8252679) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252686#msg8252686) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252898#msg8252898) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252943#msg8252943) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 10:07:49 pm
I mean.... . . In what universe is Web hiding underneath the radar? I fought with him specifically so that we wouldn't have to go through this.
But couldn't your fight had just been staged? I have to doubt everyone. Vector. Just because you fought with him doesn't mean all checks out. You know that very well.
Yes, literally anything in this game could be staged. Tric and I could be w/w and staging an extended squabble in the thread as distancing. But part of mafia is not only deciding what could be faked, but what is probably real: who you can, at least for the moment, extend a measure of trust to and work with to eliminate the scum.
The important question, and the question I'd like you to answer, is not whether web and Vector's fight could be w/w theatre, but whether you believe that it is w/w theatre.
Post by: Mamobo on February 25, 2021, 10:08:52 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 2 - 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252650#msg8252650), Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818),
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 2 - IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252793#msg8252793), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252648#msg8252648),
Luckyowl - 4 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252679#msg8252679), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252732#msg8252732), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252697#msg8252697), Secretdorf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595),
notquitethere - 0 -
Secretdorf - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277),
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
webadict - 1 - Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 3 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252866#msg8252866), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252859#msg8252859), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252729#msg8252729),
Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 19:00 CST (21 hours and 51 minutes remaining.)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2021, 10:10:45 pm
Look at what I come back to.The take of "let's launch web and see what happens" is pretty terrible, yeah. Why launch you when we can get the same effect by going after someone who's more consensus wolfy (and not, y'know, fairly consensus town).Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.Eh? I have no idea what mechanics exist in this game mode, nor do I understand the rez mechanics, so I'm not sure if my opinion counts for much, but I'd honestly rather not chance it, if only because I'm a prime target to be inspected N1 anyway.
Let me Mamobo a second, because I really got about 30% done with my read through before I got distracted.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 10:14:15 pm
Look at what I come back to.The take of "let's launch web and see what happens" is pretty terrible, yeah. Why launch you when we can get the same effect by going after someone who's more consensus wolfy (and not, y'know, fairly consensus town).Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.Eh? I have no idea what mechanics exist in this game mode, nor do I understand the rez mechanics, so I'm not sure if my opinion counts for much, but I'd honestly rather not chance it, if only because I'm a prime target to be inspected N1 anyway.
Let me Mamobo a second, because I really got about 30% done with my read through before I got distracted.
Well, who do you think we should lynch who seem scummy? I'm up for JB,TRM or even SRD.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 10:18:07 pm
I am tempted to agree that it's at least semi-legit. I don't think Luckyowl has the capacity to come up with a fakeclaim on their own, and the only person who could reasonably give a defense for this is one of you, NQT, and... I dunno, ToonyMan? That last one's me stretching. And the only person out of those three I'd even begin to expect that is NQT. I'd say I could, but I'd be lying.Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.I think the claim is probably legit, I noticed the soft when he first said it (though I assumed monster hunter at the time). He could still be a scum priest, but... meh? I guess we'll need to see, if the town has a monster hunter it probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to gank lucky after his revive just to make sure.
So, really, I'd actually feel more inclined to believe that they're Priest than that someone gave them a fakeclaim. Can a Werewolf be a Priest? That seems pretty strong.
The take of "let's launch web and see what happens" is pretty terrible, yeah. Why launch you when we can get the same effect by going after someone who's more consensus wolfy (and not, y'know, fairly consensus town).Agreed. But, I don't know that it shows anything but that Luckyowl is more likely to be Town now, so I'm gonna unvote.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 25, 2021, 10:22:57 pm
The important question, and the question I'd like you to answer, is not whether web and Vector's fight could be w/w theatre, but whether you believe that it is w/w theatre.. . . In what universe is Web hiding underneath the radar? I fought with him specifically so that we wouldn't have to go through this.
But couldn't your fight had just been staged? I have to doubt everyone. Vector. Just because you fought with him doesn't mean all checks out. You know that very well.
You're right, I simply don't trust Web or Vector under my beliefs. They are both fully capable of just faking a stage so the only way I can cut through the possible act is by doing something unusual like lynching someone who is seem townie since you know, the scum is going to try to act more like townie no matter what. But I'm fine with lynching a possible scum player like JB, TRM, or SRD then I can bring one of them back from the dead. Me personally, I wish to lynch TricMagic instead of JB. Because TricMagic engage with the game more than JB.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 10:28:38 pm
- ToonyMan had an MVP readlist
- Feeling good on Web and Jim
- That Veckle, is just, *chef's kiss*
We're not shooting these guys today: 4mask, LuckyOwl, TricMagic, Persus
- 4mask survivor.
- LuckyOwl PR claim
- Tric hard chainsawing LuckyOwl doesn't make sense for Tric being scum and LO town. If LO is town, Tric is probably also town.
- Persus needs a chance to catch up.
That leaves:
juicebox
BluarianKnight
Toaster
IcyTea31
notquitethere
I feel good about Toony's read on juicebox for now. I would guess that 2/3 of ICT, Toaster, and NQT are scum. Leaning ICT and Toaster for sidelining right now. None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.
I'm guessing the third is BK or Persus. Of the two, I still am feeling BK over Persus, although it's kind of a moot point. To be clear, it's due to the sheeping and, again, sidelining thing.
How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 10:43:01 pm
I'd prefer TricMagic was off the table too, but I'm going to lose that fight, and I can't actually defend Bluarian not being checked because I secretly want to know if I'm right about them being Town or if I just mesh with their playstyle too well.
Vector says IcyTea31. I'm... against it. ... Hm, maybe they'd be okay. Look, they'd be my fifth pick.
Lucky thinks IcyTea31 is part of the scum team too. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get out voted, but like... I just feel very BYOR15 about them.
I'd actually prefer Persus13, ugh, but I feel guilty because they just subbed in, and it feels genuinely like a jerk move. I'd also be okay with juicebox and Toaster. Additionally, NQT is a viable target here, but it's a scary prospect.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 10:47:42 pm
I'm tied ICT/Toaster, then juicebox, then Persus, then ... BK? Tric? I dunno. Anyway: I'm also good with pew-pewing Toaster today.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 25, 2021, 11:02:31 pm
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 11:05:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 11:16:39 pm
Uh huh...Sorry if that question wasn't clear. What I meant is what kind of mafia team do you think? Vampires, cult, werewolves, that kind of thing.oh my bad, not really sure. It's not easy to know just yet we would have to wait and see as the game progress. I mean, what does Vampire scum do on day 1? or what does a cult scum team do as well? probably the samething as any scumteam: act as town. So I'll answer your question with I don't know as I am not familar with this set up nor have a gut feeling on what type of scumteam we have.
I still want to lynch Lucky. I went back to check how scum priests work.
In Supernatural 5 here was Orangebottle's role:
Orangebottle (werewolf)
Once a devout holy man, you are now a Priest of the Lupine Cult. Once during the game you can attempt to resurrect a dead player. However, there is no guarantee that it will work properly. But if it does, you could gain a new ally, one loyal to the Wolf God.
On Night 3, Orangebottle used their res on me after I died (I was a Town Knight) and successfully brought me back as a Werewolf Knight:
OrangebottleIn other words, there's a high probability we would lose a town player to the mafia if the player we lynched flips town. We would have no idea and Lucky could just say "yeah the res worked I'm town guys". Best case here is that the res messes up and they come back third-party, but I still can't confirm if it's possible for them to stay town, can anybody find an example of that?
You set out once again to grow your pack from the ranks of the dead, hoping that this time you will find a body to perform the Rite of Resurrection on.
You find ToonyMan’s grave, undisturbed since he was buried. You begin digging, and you unearth his casket. With your werewolf strength you pull it out easily and empty it out, spilling ToonyMan’s head and body onto graveyard grass.
You align the head and body and begin drawing the ash circle around him and place the candles at the appropriate points. You begin chanting your prayers to the Wolf God, imploring and calling upon him to return this soul to the mortal world as a servant of the Lupine Cult.
ToonyMan’s flesh heals, and his body grows in size and form and musculature and his face transforms from that of a human to that of a wolf, and you know that your request has been granted.
ToonyMan’s first sight on returning to mortality is that of your smiling face as a human, but it is time to welcome him to your pack as a wolf.
Regardless, lynching somebody else and letting Luckyowl confirm their res is far too dangerous given my feelings towards their play today.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 25, 2021, 11:17:52 pm
We shouldn't use a resurrection to bring back a player but to bring back information. If Day 1 ends up a mislynch and we resurrect them, the only thing we learn is their original role and original alignment, and the odds are preeeeeeeeeeetty goooooooooood that we might have to end up lynching them again. As Supernatural history tells us, a lot can and does go wrong with resurrections.
After Night 1 is a way better time to make this decision. If we lose LuckyOwl to a N1 kill I do not consider that to be a tragic loss of either him or his unspent resurrection and might actually consider that an optimal N1 outcome.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 25, 2021, 11:19:41 pm
In this scenario, Lucky probably communicated with his scum buddies and they told him (or he decided) their whole "let's vote Webadict" ploy. Not buying it.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 11:20:34 pm
I'm locking in 4maskwolf as a townie Survivor, so any interactions with them are silly.
ToonyMan and Vector are like 99% not w/w. I think if Vector and ToonyMan were w/w, ToonyMan wouldn't defend them, and would happily let me continue attacking them into Day 2 and then probably turn it around on me. I'm actually pretty sure it would work well. I'm... pretty sure that's true.
TricMagic was defending Luckyowl the entire time, so... I'd say they're definitely not w/v.
Toaster/Bluarian is w/v. Reasoning is listed in my Toaster rant, but short version is that if Blue flips w, Toaster is t 100%.
ToonyMan/juicebox is NOT w/v.
If Luckyowl is w -> NQT is w. If anything, NQT should consider that a sign of respect for their scumplay.
In addition, here's my notes of what I missed:
NQT sticking by their readslist... A little townie. A little scummy. Defending Secretdorf/Persus13 is fine, I can understand that one because we have two other viable elim candidates.
Vector... Look, if ToonyMan is willing to call them Townlean, then I'm gonna reevaluate. Worst case scenario is both ToonyMan and Vector are scum, and that possibility just isn't on the table for me.
4maskwolf is going hard on Bluarian, and I think I'm too biased to get a solid read, so I'm gonna defer to 4maskwolf's reasoning for a bit: 4maskwolf points towards many people scumreading Blue, but that's probably not gonna fly well because the same is true for TricMagic and I'm more sure of Tric than I am of Blue, so I'll disregard that point. As for falling... That's true, and Blue also fell on my own readlist, but it's mostly because their own readlist makes no sense. Is that enough to scumlean them? Not above juicebox and Secretdorf, absolutely not. Blue is more active.
I swear, I still don't know why Toaster is going after Jim Groovester. It's the COMPLETELY wrong move, and Toaster's doubling down on it STILL. It's wrong. I don't think I'm interpreting it wrong, I seriously think Toaster's trying to cast doubt on Jim, but I don't think it'll work because Jim is too Town. I think even worse than the vote on Bluarian (which... like, okay, I can't really fault them for it because I'm the only one that actually thinks Blue might be Town still, so maybe it's not awful) is the FoS on TricMagic. I feel like I'm running in circles with this one because I think Toaster doesn't see a future for TricMagic elim today, but does see Town equity in the Bluarian elim, even if Blue misflips. I'll give points here, if Blue flips scum, I'll chuck Toaster into Townread because it's definitely not a bus. Like, you could bus Blue, but I think in this case, there's too many other viable elim candidates for it to matter.
juicebox... Alright, I'm gonna play the Toony card here. I'm gonna say that juicebox is aligned with Toony. I don't think ToonyMan would stake out that hard as scum for juicebox as Town. In fact, you know what, ToonyMan convinced me to up juicebox to nullread, but no way I'm townleaning them yet. I literally cannot.
Alright, we're at Luckyowl, and I seriously wish they weren't a Priest because I know we're gonna get down to lylo with them and I'm going to cry. But, sadly I'm moving them up to Townlean because I literally have no faith in a Luckyowl fakeclaim. The only way it works is if NQT is w/w with them, but all of the onus is on NQT in that exchange. Basically, if Luckyowl flips w, IMMEDIATELY VOTE NQT.
Vector... Yeah, I dunno, maybe I'm the crazy one on that read. Am I the bad one for moving them to townlean? I'm biased because Vector moved me to Townlean and ToonyMan and Jim both have Vector as Townlean, and I actually cannot find fault in their reasoning, even if I secretly still think Vector is scum and has entered my brain playing the greatest game of all time. Hm. Okay, no, wait, I'm gonna pretend I'm Townlean, but I'll say... If I die tonight... Vector is w.
Yeah, I'm okay with that.
This gets even better, if Lucky flips mafia then Webadict is almost confirmed town.If Lucky flips mafia, it's almost 100% that NQT is their buddy.
In this scenario, Lucky probably communicated with his scum buddies and they told him (or he decided) their whole "let's vote Webadict" ploy. Not buying it.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 11:43:54 pm
Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 25, 2021, 11:47:04 pm
Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.
Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...
I never said I didn't want to - just that I didn't understand why folks were voting Toaster. I'd like a bit more of a reason before tossing him as scum.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 11:49:27 pm
Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.No. I mean, obviously with the caveat that I can always be wrong and future changes, blah blah, but I do think Toaster hard-committed to BK, and I don't think it's a bus. If it's somehow BK/Toaster as w/w, then I'm going to have to eat my hat, but it'll be after I get elimmed for protecting the other one.
Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...
Look at Toaster's argument for BK and tell me that's a w/w bus.
Basically, I respect Toaster's play too much to see them poking at Jim, and going after TricMagic as well is always scummy in my book.Unvote. I need to do a hard rethink.
Web, you really don't see a universe where it could be BK/Toaster? BK doesn't wanna vote Toaster ...
I never said I didn't want to - just that I didn't understand why folks were voting Toaster. I'd like a bit more of a reason before tossing him as scum.
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 11:50:11 pm
Post by: webadict on February 25, 2021, 11:51:50 pm
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 11:56:49 pm
No. I mean, obviously with the caveat that I can always be wrong and future changes, blah blah, but I do think Toaster hard-committed to BK, and I don't think it's a bus. If it's somehow BK/Toaster as w/w, then I'm going to have to eat my hat, but it'll be after I get elimmed for protecting the other one.
Look at Toaster's argument for BK and tell me that's a w/w bus.
OK, right. I got cross-threaded as to who was doing what.
Yeah, I guess I agree with you. I'm struggling to read either of them as v but that case from Toaster on BK hit my scumdar hard. It reminded me of times when I played as scum and was working like hell to kick up evidence. BK's readslist wasn't great and I don't like the "I'll unvote and FoS and wait for the wagon :D" thing that's happening right now, but that could easily just be noob material. It's hard for me to imagine BK/Toaster w/v with BK refusing to hit that tunnel just now, too.
Back to Toaster. Yep. Feeling pretty good about this one.
Post by: Vector on February 25, 2021, 11:59:45 pm
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 12:53:01 am
I'm okay with a Toaster elim. I'm okay with a Persus13 elim. I could stomach a juicebox elim in spite of how ToonyMan's reads on them affect me. If we trust Luckyowl, I can even stomach a TricMagic or BluarianKnight elim.
I think Luckyowl can't come up with a fakeclaim. I also don't think Luckyowl is a scum Priest. But, like Vector, I have zero ideas how rez works.
I'm up way past my bedtime. See ya.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 02:18:50 am
I'll add that I'm still bothered that Secretdorf only voted LuckyOwl after he was prodded and pressured about it instead of doing that to begin with. He's not clear by any means.
It's actually worse than I thought when I said this.
As I have not been replaced yet, I'll say that I am being lynched due to thinking I am lurking scum, but I am not. Scum are jumping on me because I am not defending myself and townies think I am the perfect lynch target. I would have claimed but I am not because scum will know how to kill me which is bad for town. Luckyowl's probably a far better target than I but he is on the scumteam so scum are not fueling a lynch on him. I think NQT is probably town because theyre not going for the easy lynch.
As my last words, I'll say tricmagic is most likely scum but I am not voting for them because other people think they are town and also they could be lying as town because their claim is simply a lie and I don't know why they are being townread by some people.
Luckyowl's play so far in this game is almost opposite to their town play. Why is that not clear to people? When they are town, they are scumhunting and not just keep saying they are town. I at least tried to post my thoughts on the game but the large amount of content is almost impossible for me to read and properly process and analyze due to already less time I have due to RL. Many of my reads so far are slightly influenced by other reads which I considered genuine. Therefore, I'll say that any town player voting me should immediately unvote me because if you dont, then persus or heydude will likely have to claim which will be not good for town. As an alternative lynch, I'll propose luckyowl or tricmagic. Oh and toonyman's probably town too.
I wish I had read this post more closely before I unvoted because if I had read it I might not have.
You are once again betraying what you say is your top scum read to go do something else instead.
Once was bad enough but twice is too difficult to ignore even if you are already replaced.
Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.
yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
I personally wanted to stay quiet for two reasons. First I wanted go off and play games with few hours I have to myself and two I am afraid that I would get night killed all I hope is that someone can protect me as I res Web if he turn out to be town with his lynch. Sadly. I doubt anyone would join in with my plan, but it's the only way I can confirm myself as a town player by bringing a possible town player and make them a powerful confirmed town player. If we lynch a scum! Web then that too confirms me.
This is exactly the sort of plan I would expect you to come up with but it's terrible for several different reasons, which is entirely within what I expect from you so I guess my read on you is improving.
I'd really like to hear some logic and persuasive arguments from you. I'm seeing you glom on to the easy target, and I know you're better than that.
If I haven't impressed you so far I doubt I'm going to.
You should be impressed, however.
GLORY DAYS ETC.
Case on BluearianKnight
I like this, but I'm biased because it agrees in large part with my read on BluearianKnight.
Tric, Vector, of the three wagons (Secret, Blue, Lucky) which do you favour? What about Juice?
Definitely Lucky, but I'll be completely honest that it's primarily about *really* not wanting to LYLO with them again, especially if they're not going to bother participating D1. Every unit of time that they don't post makes them look worse (or more appetizing, I guess).
So that this isn't all about policy, I don't think we should wagon Secret when they're up for replace and bothered to come back and make another post. Blue and Juice are ... idk, at least trying. I'm not going to shed tears over any of them getting tossed D1, but I think we have the most to gain from wagoning Lucky.
If they come back and try to defend themselves because they think they're about to die, we'd at least get some data.
Damn it, really? You guys ae really going to vote Luckyowl?
*shrug* Look, they're awful to LYLO with and that almost made them into a D1 policy-lynch. Add "I'm just not gonna do D1" to that? Nah. Like, we haven't seen a big scumslip so far other than this kind of disengagement, so we might as well roll.
What's your other recommendation -- 4mask or something? Don't make me laugh.
I'm not a fan of LuckyOwl policy lynch aspect of your vote but I endorse the 'he hasn't done anything' part of it. (At least up to this part of the thread where you made these posts.)
You know, what is LuckyOwl's record for lylo? The times I've seen him there he managed to clutch out a win while annoying everyone in the process.
- LuckyOwl PR claim
Priests aren't worth keeping around solely for their role.
Also this is quite a turnaround from your previous opinion of LuckyOwl. He suddenly showed up, sure, but the policy lynch part of it still seems like it should be in play.
- Persus needs a chance to catch up.
Recently replaced players can still be sc
Never mind we already hashed this out.
How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?
. . .
Leaning ICT and Toaster for sidelining right now. None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.
Sidelining?
IcyTea31 is making grooves on less popular tracks (I hope this metaphor makes sense) but I don't get the sense he's avoiding anything out of malice.
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.
Mm, actually ranking my shoot-then-rez list:
Shoot then rez is a bad plan.
Let's not do that.
Everyone else: is the complete moon logic Tric's been spewing about me alignment indicative? I've not played as many games with him as most of you have so I'd like some input.
I agree it's nonsense but I don't read scum off it.
This is probably the wrong take.
But the first thing I thought when I read that post from Persus was that he'd asked his scumbuddies for a quick summary and that's his interpretation of it. It's just a weird takeaway from actually reading up to the point in the game where I claimed wererat, people were more grumpy about my memeing about than about the claim itself and by the time I claimed wererat it was already more or less accepted.
It also completely glosses over things like Tric's claim which also happened during that time period.
For intuition I don't think it's bad.
Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.
Low profile? What?
I get no impression Vector is trying to avoid anything.
QuoteAs for funniest, I would spend the game converting LuckyOwl over and over again even if he was unconvertable and even if the conversion was successful.Is this wishful thinking, or do you actually suspect scum has a conversion mechanic?
I have no knowledge of what the scumteam is. The context of the question was conversions so I answered with that context in mind.
Looking at how the wind is blowing towards lynching one of the low-activity players, I think juicebox is where I want my vote to be right now, as only NQT is pushing for that one. If correct, it'd be so unlikely to be a bus that it'd core NQT in my book. I'm fine with a Luckyowl lynch, too.
If I read this right this is actually an indirect attack on notquitethere?
Jim, do you think Lucky and Juicebox are less scummy than Secret?
At the time you asked this, LuckyOwl was only marginally less scummy than Secretdorf. I don't read juicebox as scum, just terse.
LuckyOwl claiming and actually being present drops him down quite a bit but I still strongly rate Secretdorf/Persus13 as scum.
Literally anyone, does anything Juicebox has come out with make sense from a town POV?
I don't have a good read on his meta but nothing he's produced screams too terribly at me.
Do you really think a scum!NQT would think it a priority to publicise the possible composition of the scum teams? Scum want town to forget that vampires are cultists, or that cultists can be mafia, or that hunters can hunt things not in the game.
Are you really persisting with this bizarre line? C'mon. Just admit spending a non-trivial amount of time informing the town what the threats could be is not actually a scum tell.
I feel like you're bothered by this more than you should be.
I have tried to figure out where you're coming from on IcyTea31 and juicebox to a lesser extent but I still find myself struggling to see things from your perspective.
Picking lurkers is not a bland or easy read.
How am I aiming for low-fruits? Hell, at this rate anyone I feel are scum could be 'low-fruits'. Lucky and Secret are playing in a way completely different then what I saw them do in Vengeful - even if they're busy, Secret's been half-assing his posts, and Lucky has barely interacted. Maybe they've both suddenly gotten busy after signing up, but I don't believe that.
You've responded to the substance of what Toaster is poking you for but not for what I'm poking you for. I don't actually care much about the content of your reads lists and I'm pretty meh on going after easy targets.
I said you were acting, i.e. not being authentic, like you were trying to adhere to a meta but didn't know quite how to pull it off. Your vehement vote on 4maskwolf and your quick reversal, and then you acknowledging criticisms levelled against your play without much complaint. It's hard for me to believe that you are genuine with your posts earlier in the day.
Calling somebody inauthentic is a very serious accusation, which is why you're my second top suspect after Secretdorf/Persus13, and you would be my top if I didn't feel that pairing was more blatant.
Jim - You've recently unvoted, but haven't put a new vote down. Who are you leaning to vote on, and why?
You, because you're not authentic.
But actually Persus13.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 04:56:18 am
Icytea - Your recent post shows your dislike of NQT's 'smokescreen' posts, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252831#msg8252831) when your own posts can (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252599#msg8252599) easily be claimed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) the same type of smokescreening. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) Unless I misunderstand, your posts are just about as cluttered and hard to read as his at points, so could you elaborate?If you read through those posts of mine you linked, you realize I actually question people and analyze their words in them. By smokescreen I mean a post that's busywork meant to hide a scum player's lack of scumhunting. NQT's scumteam speculation post excuses a time investment that wasn't spent on something useful, but on providing information which is largely useless right now and which would have taken far less time to retrieve once it became relevant and we knew what to look for. It looks like a lot of effort spent to help the town, but it isn't.
Vector, Luckyowl, webadict
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.I agree with you, Luckyowl's plan makes no sense for town. Lynching someone they suspect is town, counting on the revive to go through (if LO is town, why wouldn't scum try to prevent it, now that they know about it?), and counting on the revive to not change web's alignment. From a scum point of view it makes far more (any) sense.
Webadict's main objection to lynching them seems to be disbelief that there could be a scum priest, which makes me giggle at a little irony:
It's highly relevant whether 4mask is telling the truth, what role a fakeclaiming Tric could actually have, what kind of third parties we're facing, the fact that scum teams can have town roles etc. Giving people this information up front can stop a lot of misconceptions.I called this out because I thought these things were trivial to check, but apparently NQT was right on that last part at least.
Jim Groovester
At the time I posted that, Vector's interaction with me was very one-sided with boring answers, giving me a "don't look at me" impression. And their other posts were similarly not attention-catching. By now, Vector is clearly feeling much more secure, which leaves me wondering about the change, but I'm happy to let them be town for today at least.Vector: Low-profile play implies something to hide. Scum-or-cop. Readslist looks like town PoV.
Low profile? What?
I get no impression Vector is trying to avoid anything.
Quote
If I read this right this is actually an indirect attack on notquitethere?In a way. NQT is my top suspicion of the veteran players. I think considering an infolynch to confirm him does indeed imply that I want him checked.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 04:59:55 am
None of ICTs attacks have had much heft.I suppose a vote demands a response, but I think to this my best response is to just keep playing and find an angle of "attack with much heft". Unless you have a more specific complaint?
How 'bout shooting IcyTea31?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 08:02:42 am
- LuckyOwl PR claimA true PR claim doesn't mean Lucky isn't scum, as scum can have town roles (as I already pointed out in my big post) and a scum priest is de facto converter. It's less informative to kill Lucky now he's claimed, that much is true. But it says nothing about Tric's possible alignment.
- Tric hard chainsawing LuckyOwl doesn't make sense for Tric being scum and LO town. If LO is town, Tric is probably also town.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 08:34:55 am
4mask, you've got 87 posts in this game but I don't see a reads list. Hit me with what you got.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 08:58:24 am
I don't like it. My take is that Lucky was staying passive because he didn't know how to act in this game. Because he's playing a game he's never properly played before.
There's some older questions (Vector, BK) that I'll get back to when I can type better.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 09:12:09 am
4mask, you've got 87 posts in this game but I don't see a reads list. Hit me with what you got.Word.
Circle of Trust:
Toonyman
IcyTea
Jim Groovester
Not going here today:
webadict
Vector
Toaster
Can die:
NQT
Lucky
TricMagic
Wolves here:
juicebox
Persus
BluarianKnight
I'm at work so I don't have time to write my full thoughts for all of them, but if anyone has questions on why someone is where they are I'd be happy to answer them.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 09:13:53 am
Toony
Jim
Icy
Toaster
Vector
web
Lucky
Tric
NQT
juicebox
Persus
Blue
Post by: Mephansteras on February 26, 2021, 10:00:51 am
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, Toaster
juicebox: notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Persus13: Jim Groovester, TricMagic, webadict
Toaster: Vector
webadict: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. You have ~10 hours.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 10:17:53 am
Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.
yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
Damn it lucky. What's the point of revealing such when you are likely to end up dead because of it.. Granted, this is something I could pull too if there were protective roles, but I'd try to avoid needing to till day 2.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 10:58:32 am
Looking over the lurker tracker and rereading previous posts, NQT has jumped way up in my suspicions for today, and still going after me this late.
That said, Persus still hasn't done anything to make up for Secretdorf. NQT is likely to be next on the list of people to lynch for me. I also don't quite trust Lucky's reveal and latest posts yet, but that is mostly cause it is out of my town meta for them, underdeveloped as it is. Though as Lucky has said before there are apparently similarities between our play. I still think both of us being scum would result in a weird game if it ever happened.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 11:45:47 am
Here's a graphic I through together accurate to the reads players gave as of my last post (so it doesn't include 4mask's updated reads). The lines represent mutual feeling, so a strong town read from one person and a null read from the other can average out to a mild town read.
Spoiler: Mutual Feeling (click to show/hide)
Here's a simpler visualisation with just the stronger feelings:
Spoiler: Strongest Mutual Feeling (click to show/hide)
I probably shouldn't have bothered putting 4mask in as basically everyone agrees he's probably not town but probably not on a scum team.
Groupings
In order of most mutually friendly, to least:
Veteran Gang - Toony, Web, Vector, Jim all like each other.
Usual Suspects - NQT and Secret/Persus like each other and have a handful of positive sentiments, but experience mutual animosity with many.
3rd Party - 4mask vouches for various veterans, and is tolerated by almost everyone so far.
Hangers-on - Toaster and Juicebox both like each other and have one positive link each with the Veterans, and then a lot of negative sentiment beyond that.
Iced Out - Icy Tea has two friends among the Veterans, with bad blood among many others.
Weak Links - Bluarian and Tric each have only one positive link and many detractors.
Pariah - There's no positive sentiment to or from Luckyowl.
Analysis
OK, but what about any of this is alignment indicative? I'm not sure! While scum absolutely do distance one another, on D1, we wouldn't expect any scum team member to necessarily be completely friendless. So that speaks to Lucky's isolation. The mutually reinforcing Veteran group is, I suspect, mostly due to them liking each other from previous games and may well break down in future games. But it's highly unlikely that they're all scum, as scum tend to have a modicum of plausible deniability about their linkages.
There's a lot of residual suspicion around both Toaster and Juice and they like each other. I can't say that that in itself is suspicious as Blue-NQT and NQT-Secret have a similar pattern. Still, I think there might be something worth looking for here.
Conclusions
- I no longer support a Lucky lynch, there's too much mutual hostility for them to be a good team candidate.
- I'll definitely be reviewing this web as flips come out. And if it feels useful, I might make an updated one on D2 as positions change.
- It might be interesting to do an opposite version of this visualisation process, looking at players who are mutually meh about each other.
Spoiler: Method (click to show/hide)
Toaster, Jim, I don't think either of you have given a definitive reads list though you have each scattered your impressions. Care to enlighten us?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 11:56:17 am
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 11:58:39 am
I think Lucky isn't pulling votes like a magnet because his scum partners don't want to lose an ally on D1. They still think they can sway a mislynch and use his priest powers for a juicy possible convert res.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 12:07:34 pm
Reading through the thread properly it seems like 4maskwolf was accurate that he was getting attacked for memes, but considering Blu, Toony, and to a lesser extent NQT were annoyed by his D1 survivor game I'm a bit more confident in my statement that 4mask was also getting flack for claiming survivor. Also I'm enjoying the use of memes, for the record. 4maskwolf I absolutely believe this claim so these early interactions leave me a bit suspicious of Blu and Toony. While scum probably wouldn't go after a survivor claim unless they thought it was an SK, claiming survivor seems more of an SK move (maybe Dark Magus too?) than a normal mafia team as if it works it gets the scum team off their back at night.
Also wow there's a fair amount of claims D1. I'm a bit suspicious of tric, but that's mainly because I'm suspicious of VT claims in this game. But I think I remember him doing something like this before (and I've checked and it wasn't the last Paranormal, so now I can't recall what game it was). But anyway he tends to hype his abilities or lack of early D1.
Coming up on stuff that my predecessor has posted, I'm having trouble reading that first post as anything but a joke about how anybody could be mafia at this stage. Its very RVS, and to be fair, RVS had mostly ended by that point, but I've definitely had the same impression of seeing everyone be Mafia in games before. I'm getting very much the same vibes of 4mask getting attacked for posting spongebob memes here, but while 4mask is a confident player whose been around the block here for years, secret does not seem to be the same way, so of course they're going to react differently.
This brings me to NQT's infobomb post, and IcyTea asked me a question about that:
I agree with you that its most useful D2 immediately after the night kill flavor is revealed (or lack of any), but the third party stuff is useful now since we have a third party claim already. The Vampire Hunter stuff is also useful to town, since if that role is present and they don't know that game, they know its not a scumteam guarentee. I'm not happy with giving info to Tric to help his VT claim but that just means we have to figure out if he's telling the truth the old-fashioned way. I'd do it either before end of D1 or at the start of D2, earlier if people seemed to be getting confused.
Persus13
Do you think the information in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) is useful to town right now?
What do you think of webadict's play? I've been trying to figure out why my gut doesn't like it.
Ultimately I consider this post a null tell from NQT, this is the kind of analysis he likes to do as a person, and frankly, this kind of game analysis is why I enjoy playing Supernatural. Also Meph's awesome flavor.
Anyone: LuckyOwl is getting a lot of flack for something he did at LYLO? I feel like there's a game I'm missing context on here. I remember playing with them in the last Paranormal and don't remember anything standing out.
Okay, I've spent an hour and a half on this post and I've read through page 17 and somewhat through the thread since I've been replaced. Something about Jim and Toaster's interactions are rubbing me the wrong way and I can't put my finger on it, although like NQT just posted, that could just be them being old friends and old hats at the game. Toaster has posted some specific stuff that's decently aggressive, but Toaster overall has seemed oddly passive this game so far. He's accused people like Blu and tric of going after easy targets, but tric is always an easy target and so is Blue right now. So maybe its that?
It looks like if I want to survive the day the alternate options are Blu and LuckyOwl. Blu is a null read who seems to be finding his footing. As for Lucky I'm suspicious of his claim, but that's because town priests are a role with a major drawback, and a convenient claim for scum priest which are one of the worst roles to face.
I missed some questions but I need lunch and to do other stuff. I tied the vote but I'll be back to keep track of things.
Post by: juicebox on February 26, 2021, 12:10:36 pm
Quote from: webadict link=topic=178146.msg8252898#msg8252898 date=1614300838
[quote author=juicebox link=topic=178146.msg8252861#msg8252861 date=1614295309
[quote author=juicebox link=topic=178146.msg8252861#msg8252861 date=1614295309
Webadict: What exactly is the reason for your scumlean on Toaster? I can't find anything in their posts to suggest they might be scum.Toaster's attacks are fairly broad, shotgun attack to see what sticks, and in general, anyone that really thinks TricMagic is scum (or at least worthy of being eliminated today) is scummy, ESPECIALLY if it's related to the VT claim, which makes even less sense than going after TricMagic for being standard TricMagic. Oh, and on top of that, Toaster suspecting Jim Groovester of all people. That one is insane! Jim has Town equity out the wazoo, and even if Jim is somehow scum, Jim should still be alive at Lylo... Blah, blah, caveat that Jim continues what they're doing, CMA. Call it crazy. Call it what you want, but Jim's seriously throwing punches, and they're hitting well.
It'd be the same if you went after ToonyMan. Look, I could have concrete proof that ToonyMan is a serial killer, and I'd still be suspicious of anyone going after them because they are just too productive. Plus, even if ToonyMan is scum, ToonyMan busses their teammates pretty hard, so I have even less to worry about.
[/quote]
Yeah this makes sense to me especially the part about going after Jim.
Everyone, and I do mean everyone, I want your opinion on this.
I believe LuckyOwl's claim. That does sound lika a plan that Town!LuckyOwl would come up with
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 12:13:07 pm
Sentiment VisualisationsFor my part of that, I don't currently think Tric is lynchably scummy. Even though they're lying about their powers, they're trying to find a breaking strategy, which is what I've usually observed town!Tric doing in past games.
I'd note about the veteran gang, that they're the kind of players who know they have trouble reading each other, and will likely rely on mechanics (cop etc.) and survival ("lynch wuba if alive D3" etc.) to confirm each other.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 12:17:45 pm
Persus, Lucky was in two short games in a row where he claimed that he had flipped a coin to decide LYLO. He was sort of joking to deflect responsibility, and everyone hated it. If I recall, in both cases he made the right choice, but then in a third game he chose poorly at LYLO.
TricMagic, I'm reviewing my reads list now. But first, tell me the name of your role. I asked before and as far as I can tell you ignored the question.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 12:20:29 pm
Persus, Lucky was in two short games in a row where he claimed that he had flipped a coin to decide LYLO. He was sort of joking to deflect responsibility, and everyone hated it. If I recall, in both cases he made the right choice, but then in a third game he chose poorly at LYLO.Okay, people going after Luckyowl when they don't see a lot of other options makes way more sense now.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 12:24:21 pm
Hm. I am extremely torn on this. I think that Lucky has some scum equity, but I also definitely feel that there are three or four better elims than Lucky. I basically have Lucky as Townlean atm because their plan just feels like something Town!Lucky would come up with.
I'm willing to leave a vote on Luckyowl right now but if we can get a Toasrer or Persus13 elim instead, I'd much rather we did. Also because I feel like have Lucky as the elim leader is better for scumhunting.
Also, I like the web. I don't think it gives more than a little town equity, but it certainly makes me feel like I'm being presented to.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 12:26:16 pm
Also, I like the web. I don't think it gives more than a little town equity, but it certainly makes me feel like I'm being presented to.I'm dumb and not following all the web lingo being thrown out here? What do you mean by "town equity"?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 12:29:47 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 12:30:51 pm
Toony, lots of people have voted Luckyowl and unvoted or have said they would vote him. The claim changed minds (whether for good reason or no).Testing the waters.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 12:33:13 pm
Toony
OK, but since your first reply in this exchange and your last one, there have been two more Lucky votes, and now Lucky is once again the lynch candidate with 4 votes, max 2 on anyone else.Toony, lots of people have voted Luckyowl and unvoted or have said they would vote him. The claim changed minds (whether for good reason or no).Testing the waters.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 12:36:58 pm
Idk, Toony. I really am hesitant on calling Lucky scum. Is Lucky playing to their normal meta? No. Is Lucky being scummy? Yes. But their claim and idea is just... very Lucky feeling that I am willing to believe it was created by them. I can do a better analysis tonight, but it won't be until near Day end.I'd prefer a Toaster elim over Lucky as well.
Hm. I am extremely torn on this. I think that Lucky has some scum equity, but I also definitely feel that there are three or four better elims than Lucky. I basically have Lucky as Townlean atm because their plan just feels like something Town!Lucky would come up with.
I'm willing to leave a vote on Luckyowl right now but if we can get a Toasrer or Persus13 elim instead, I'd much rather we did. Also because I feel like have Lucky as the elim leader is better for scumhunting.
Also, I like the web. I don't think it gives more than a little town equity, but it certainly makes me feel like I'm being presented to.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 12:40:11 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 12:44:26 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 12:47:49 pm
Has anyone actually changed their mind on the Persus/secret slot or did everyone just collectively decide to give that slot time to post and then never went back to it?Persus wasn't expecting to sub this early but they explained this and have contributed more than Lucky.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 12:49:27 pm
Toony, lots of people have voted Luckyowl and unvoted or have said they would vote him. The claim changed minds (whether for good reason or no).
Persus, Lucky was in two short games in a row where he claimed that he had flipped a coin to decide LYLO. He was sort of joking to deflect responsibility, and everyone hated it. If I recall, in both cases he made the right choice, but then in a third game he chose poorly at LYLO.
TricMagic, I'm reviewing my reads list now. But first, tell me the name of your role. I asked before and as far as I can tell you ignored the question.
Of course I ignored it. I will actively continue to keep it close till the right time. As it stands I will not be leaving my house tonight, not targeting anyone, nor anything else. I'll stick to that testimony until I'm dead.
As it stands, Persus13's post is very much trying to sway the lynch away from him onto other targets. Which isn't alignment indicative. You can't say you are tying the vote when you yourself are on the chopping block though, that's just trying for survival. As it stands, you have to bear the burden of Secretdorf's actions. LO's revival may not be perfect, but it does allow us to revive you in some form. After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.
And as noted, LO, don't revive them if they are a warlock. It seems that role does have a habit of turning anti-town.
Has anyone actually changed their mind on the Persus/secret slot or did everyone just collectively decide to give that slot time to post and then never went back to it?
I have no clue what this means, but I'll use context clues. Persus hasn't really changed my decision that dorf was scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 12:51:29 pm
After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.I see someone's thinking a few steps ahead.
I agree. Once Lucky revives he always needs to be either inspected or killed in some way, to rule out the possibility of a scum priest.
Post by: Toaster on February 26, 2021, 12:58:43 pm
LuckyOwl:
Luckyowl, are you genuinely busy somewhere else this week? I want to hear from you.
yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
This plan is bad. I haven't done the math but I'd give resses about 50% chance of ressing back into town. We have seen survivors, SKs, and conversions to scum team. A bit into meta reads here, but I read this plan as "I don't know how Supernatural resses work mechanically" bad instead of "I am either lying or have a sinister plan" bad.
Webadict:
I swear, I still don't know why Toaster is going after Jim Groovester. It's the COMPLETELY wrong move, and Toaster's doubling down on it STILL. It's wrong. I don't think I'm interpreting it wrong, I seriously think Toaster's trying to cast doubt on Jim, but I don't think it'll work because Jim is too Town. I think even worse than the vote on Bluarian (which... like, okay, I can't really fault them for it because I'm the only one that actually thinks Blue might be Town still, so maybe it's not awful) is the FoS on TricMagic. I feel like I'm running in circles with this one because I think Toaster doesn't see a future for TricMagic elim today, but does see Town equity in the Bluarian elim, even if Blue misflips. I'll give points here, if Blue flips scum, I'll chuck Toaster into Townread because it's definitely not a bus. Like, you could bus Blue, but I think in this case, there's too many other viable elim candidates for it to matter.
I think you're reading too deep into my issues with Jim. I'd love to see more out of him, yes, and know he can do better. Maybe he is just having an off day? I'll tell you when I have more data, which isn't now. His lowest possible rank for me now is "keep an eye on." There's a read list coming, so check that toward the bottom.
NQT:
Hangers-on - Toaster and Juicebox both like each other
I don't recall mentioning juicebox ever this game; my general sentiment leans ever so slightly negative but I'm about to read over juicebox's content. Oh hey it barely exists!
Toaster, Jim, I don't think either of you have given a definitive reads list though you have each scattered your impressions. Care to enlighten us?
Because I don't like doing full read lists this early on because that's not how my brain works. That said, I'm okay with doing one now.
Tier List
They're fine, whatever tier: People I don't suspect. Unordered.
webadict
ToonyMan
Persus13 I'm gonna be frank, I've run out of time to read over Persus's new posts with any detail. Okay I speed-analyzed this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253139#msg8253139) and there are no obvious flaws.
IcyTea31
Luckyowl If we buy Lucky's role claim, his behavior makes meta sense as someone not really sure how Supernatural priests work. This is a bit of a free pass, but one I will absolutely not extend to D2.
Slightly Arched Eyebrow tier: Keeping an eye on these folks.
Vector Vector pinged my gut in the first half of D1. I have nothing specific to put my finger on, and it's a pure gut read, but Vector basically has one foot here and one foot in the above tier.
Jim Groovester Like I said, I feel he could be doing better.
Don't like their play tier: People I have specific reasons to suspect.
TricMagic My suspicions of Tric have fallen, but he's not out of the woods yet.
notquitethere NQT has multiple big posts with high word count and little scumhunt count; see the past Supernatural game analysis and the "relationship" matrix which he states specifically that it doesn't currently mean much for scumhunting. I am not happy with NQT so far.
Scum tier: People I'm totally okay with voting.
Juicebox No wonder Juicebox wasn't strong in my mind; there are hardly any posts to reference. See below for more detail.
BluarianKnight I've made my case on BK.
Claimed Survivor tier:
4maskwolf is in my "problem to deal with later" tier. The more he tries the safer his neck is, and he appears to be trying so far.
On Juicebox: So far Juicebox has voted twice.
Once he voted for NQT (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252497#msg8252497) while saying his top scumpicks in the same post:
Since you asked NQT
[snip]
That leaves Secretdorf and LuckyOwl, both of whom have been mostly absent for D1. It's unusual for both of them to have this little presence in the game, and I can see an argument that they're both lurking scum.
That's odd.
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252613#msg8252613) Juicebox moves over to Secretdorf. Well, at least he's following his own words.
Then...
unvote as well, now that Secretdorf has been replaced
After that, he asks Webadict a question on his read of me, then later posts a couple comments (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253140#msg8253140). No current vote, basically no current suspects. Nothing.
TL;DR I'd be happy to hang BK, Juicebox, or NQT today.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 01:00:55 pm
Do you understand that Tric? Tell me the role name.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 01:07:19 pm
You can't say you are tying the vote when you yourself are on the chopping block though, that's just trying for survival. As it stands, you have to bear the burden of Secretdorf's actions. LO's revival may not be perfect, but it does allow us to revive you in some form. After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.[/qiote]
I'm very confused what that first part even means. Heck yeah I tied the vote. I told everyone I did when there's 8 hours to go. The vote even got untied within 30 minutes too. I don't trust LO's revive, so I don't really care about that.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 01:07:53 pm
You can't say you are tying the vote when you yourself are on the chopping block though, that's just trying for survival. As it stands, you have to bear the burden of Secretdorf's actions. LO's revival may not be perfect, but it does allow us to revive you in some form. After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.I'm very confused what that first part even means. Heck yeah I tied the vote. I told everyone I did when there's 8 hours to go. The vote even got untied within 30 minutes too. I don't trust LO's revive, so I don't really care about that.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 01:10:40 pm
I suppose a vote demands a response, but I think to this my best response is to just keep playing and find an angle of "attack with much heft". Unless you have a more specific complaint?
Yeah, just consider it a wake-up call, I guess. At least in the present context of "the rezzing plan was a bad idea."
LO's revival may not be perfect, but it does allow us to revive you in some form. After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.
OK, you do understand that what you're recommending here is lynching someone and, if they're town, likely turning them into an anti-town role? That "may not be perfect" thing is glossing over a lot.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 01:14:29 pm
TricMagic is lying. There's exactly one town role in the game that fits their claim, and several scum roles. By not claiming the town role, they are in essence revealing that either they are scum, or that they are lying about not having an action, or worse, that they are a werebear sk baiting us into investigating them so that they get easy kills.
Do you understand that Tric? Tell me the role name.
A fun idea, but no. You have to wait till later. Accusing me of lying when I never actually said any role name is a bit silly. You could say I'm lying about staying at home, but...
You know, this kinda firms you into scum, NQT. Hunting me down instead of looking at others who are on the block, just to be seen scumhunting. Does anyone else know what role matches mine? You don't actually have to say it, just say you also see it. If more do, I'll reveal it today. But it kinda leads NQT to be scum, as they'd have no reason to force a reveal if they are right and town.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 01:16:10 pm
bear the burden
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 01:16:39 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 01:17:21 pm
Looking at my notes, I had it that you were null on Juice and he had a strong town read on you which averaged out to mild town sentiment. The inaccuracy is because you hadn't given reads before.
Tric, I will go back and check the possibilities as there might be something I'm missing here. If there is, I'll apologise. But from where I'm standing it looked like you're making things up that aren't in the game.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 01:18:56 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 01:20:22 pm
True, but the main issue of LO's plan as town happpens to be lynching webadict, someone with a lot of content, nd hoping they don't rez as anti-town. Persus is replacing, and doesn't really offer anything to deal with what secretdorf left behind. Toaster at least managed something to peak my interest. Not enough to shift them any, but juice has not posted much. Persus could push for that, but instead LO/Toaster votes with Blue suspicions.I suppose a vote demands a response, but I think to this my best response is to just keep playing and find an angle of "attack with much heft". Unless you have a more specific complaint?
Yeah, just consider it a wake-up call, I guess. At least in the present context of "the rezzing plan was a bad idea."LO's revival may not be perfect, but it does allow us to revive you in some form. After which LO is either going to need investigation, or lynching.
OK, you do understand that what you're recommending here is lynching someone and, if they're town, likely turning them into an anti-town role? That "may not be perfect" thing is glossing over a lot.
Also Tric your reads are bad and I'm not voting Persus.Such is your lot. I am fully against a LO lynch, and this revival stuff at least gives a possibility of clearing Persus of secretdorf's sins, assuming it doesn't convert him. Or he replaced into mafia, which I find more likely.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 01:20:28 pm
Anyone wanna tell me what the dreamwalker actually does?You get a random Night PM from a player in the game. You don't know which player.
Otherwise you get random dreams for flavor I guess?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 01:24:02 pm
Also Tric your reads are bad and I'm not voting Persus.Such is your lot. I am fully against a LO lynch, and this revival stuff at least gives a possibility of clearing Persus of secretdorf's sins, assuming it doesn't convert him. Or he replaced into mafia, which I find more likely.
I am also against low info policy lynches on Day 1, which is what Juice is. That doesn't give me any info to town. Investigative roles can get info, those without won't have much to go off of.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 01:24:55 pm
From the PMs for Supernatural 1.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 01:25:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 01:30:23 pm
Look at my War Vet play in Paranornal 24 for an example of effective use.
Low info my ass. I would be voting your ass if I didn't know your play in BYOR15.Also Tric your reads are bad and I'm not voting Persus.Such is your lot. I am fully against a LO lynch, and this revival stuff at least gives a possibility of clearing Persus of secretdorf's sins, assuming it doesn't convert him. Or he replaced into mafia, which I find more likely.
I am also against low info policy lynches on Day 1, which is what Juice is. That doesn't give me any info to town. Investigative roles can get info, those without won't have much to go off of.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 01:33:28 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 01:36:03 pm
Tric you are an idiot for dropping werebear hint claims in your post. The breadcrumbing is so obvious now that you pointed it out that I need to make this clear for everyone in case only scum see it. That's so stupid as town...So I had earlier dismissed a town Tric genuinely being a werebear, because why would they ask watchers to come see them??
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 01:44:13 pm
And NQT, an apology and switchback to Juice isn't going to do anything. Low info lynches are not good things day one. And a bunch of small posts followed by mechanic stuff reminds me of previous games with you.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 01:44:59 pm
Tric you are an idiot for dropping werebear hint claims in your post. The breadcrumbing is so obvious now that you pointed it out that I need to make this clear for everyone in case only scum see it. That's so stupid as town...So I had earlier dismissed a town Tric genuinely being a werebear, because why would they ask watchers to come see them??
UM
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 01:52:14 pm
--
Vector, you know what a werebear does right?
TricMagic, oh so you are werebear, why are you baiting town to inspect you???
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 01:53:54 pm
I'd dismissed the town werebear thing too because that's literally the worst possible way to play it.
What the fuck was that?
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 01:56:26 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 01:57:59 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 02:03:12 pm
Is someone claiming Dreamwalker?Nah, Vector was asking what they do.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 02:10:36 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 02:14:34 pm
I am very very annoyed at you Toonyman. You know that?Assuming I'm right:
Dude, breadcrumbing a War Vet-type role is very dumb. If even a single scum spots it they'll tell their group and none of them will target you ever. They'll want to lynch you. Any town that spots it will probably want to avoid you, but any townie who doesn't realize what's up are putting themselves at risk.
Yes, keeping quiet could lead to a Werebear/War Vet killing town, but the trade off is that you can take out scum as well.
The other option is to announce your status immediately as a warning, this will at least spare some town lives probably.
The worst possible move is to breadcrumb.
Yep, NQT is scum. How in the world did you get that idea?It's possible. I do still think you're town.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 02:16:06 pm
Yep, NQT is scum. How in the world did you get that idea?
TricMagic, oh so you are werebear, why are you baiting town to inspect you???
I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.
PPE:I have no powers, so feel free to come and kill me. Or watch me. Or anything else.Tricmagic seems like a decent place to start.
And so the run of being scummy continues. That is your first thought when I claim to have no powers?
My run specifically. But any tracker in the group could see the truth. How does my one post seem a decent place to start?
Hmm, that so? I really don't have anything I can actively do though. No kills or anything like that. Can't track or investigate or bus or anything. Unless I'm lying to cover up a more powerful role. (Just posting without thinking there. So you know that post wasn't coached at all given the number of experienced players in this game.)
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 02:18:10 pm
I really don't like you NQT, you REALLY want my role for whatever reason. Well, here it is. Also renders it completely useless, so congrats scum. I'll be hunting you fully tomorrow, or today if votes turn against you.
I am a Knight. I have the super special ability of not being Knightkilled. That's it. I was hoping to get targeted by a kill with hyper-agression, but that's not going to happen now..
Ninja Vector.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 02:20:30 pm
Dude just say if you are or not. You clearly want to take a stance with your showboat displays. If you admit it then we can avoid needless town deaths, if you deny it then maybe scum will take the chance. If we find out you were lying after denying it then we'll just auto-lynch you.
PPE:
I am a Knight. I have the super special ability of not being Knightkilled. That's it. I was hoping to get targeted by a kill with hyper-agression, but that's not going to happen now..What the fuck? You fake breadcrumbed a role that would make scum not want to target you? AS A KNIGHT??
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 02:21:25 pm
4 hours, 45 minutes to day end. So this line isn't going to really work for now. Persus13This makes much more sense than werebear. I feel kinda dumb because my first thought when you initially started softing was "knight" because of the way you emphasized "or kill me or whatever" but I dropped that line of thought at some point and I don't know why.
I really don't like you NQT, you REALLY want my role for whatever reason. Well, here it is. Also renders it completely useless, so congrats scum. I'll be hunting you fully tomorrow, or today if votes turn against you.
I am a Knight. I have the super special ability of not being Knightkilled. That's it. I was hoping to get targeted by a kill with hyper-agression, but that's not going to happen now..
Ninja Vector.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 02:51:16 pm
Spoiler: Mutual Feeling (click to show/hide)
What kind of knuckle dragging mouthbreather makes a relationship graph in ms paint???????????
Toaster, Jim, I don't think either of you have given a definitive reads list though you have each scattered your impressions. Care to enlighten us?
No, I hate reads lists. My initial decision was to refuse you, but then I thought I might give one, but in the process of creating one I hated everything about it, so I have returned to my initial decision.
I've been clear about my suspects. Everybody else is clustered around a neutral read. IcyTea31 and ToonyMan I slightly favor, you and Toaster I slightly disfavor. I might favor webadict and Vector if they weren't as skilled as they are. The person I have least reason to suspect is 4maskwolf but that's because of his survivor claim.
Has anyone actually changed their mind on the Persus/secret slot or did everyone just collectively decide to give that slot time to post and then never went back to it?
I'm the rare bastard not giving Persus13 any slack for what I suspect Secretdorf for.
I'm willing to leave a vote on Luckyowl right now but if we can get a Toasrer or Persus13 elim instead, I'd much rather we did. Also because I feel like have Lucky as the elim leader is better for scumhunting.
How so?
What more does a LuckyOwl lynch tell us over a Toaster/Persus13 lynch?
If you're game for a Persus13 lynch, we can make it happen, but it's gotta start with you and me, brother.
I am also against low info policy lynches on Day 1, which is what Juice is. That doesn't give me any info to town. Investigative roles can get info, those without won't have much to go off of.
Low activity players can be scum and are not less likely to be scum than more active players.
Quote
TricMagic's werebear/knight claim
This is a big fat meh from me on this topic.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 02:59:20 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 03:01:57 pm
Back to obvscum Juicebox...
Jim, paint was probably not the best tool, but eh it worked fine enough for my purposes.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 03:04:22 pm
I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 03:05:00 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 03:10:34 pm
I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
I agree with this.
LuckyOwl. Given how coordinated all of this looks, I'm gonna assume that this is a scum priest and that we therefore don't want them to rezz anyone, even though with isolated reads I feel more solid on BK being scum. Let's go let's go. Vote is staying here unless something crazy happens.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 26, 2021, 03:12:47 pm
BluarianKnight: 4maskwolf, Toaster
juicebox: BluarianKnight, notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan, Vector, webadict
Persus13: Jim Groovester, TricMagic
Toaster: Persus13
webadict: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. You have ~5 hours left!
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 03:13:43 pm
@Bluarian, which posts show juicebox being desperate?
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 03:14:18 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 03:15:37 pm
I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
I checked your posts and the juicebox suspicion doesn't come completely out of left field though I don't follow the development of your suspicions on him. The characterization of juicebox as desperate bothers me, since even if he's low activity he seems unflappable.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 03:16:27 pm
Luckyowl, I'd prefer a blue chop but lucky works too, they've got decent equity together.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 03:20:45 pm
Stop copying me.I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
I agree with this.
LuckyOwl. Given how coordinated all of this looks, I'm gonna assume that this is a scum priest and that we therefore don't want them to rezz anyone, even though with isolated reads I feel more solid on BK being scum. Let's go let's go. Vote is staying here unless something crazy happens.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 03:32:20 pm
I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
I checked your posts and the juicebox suspicion doesn't come completely out of left field though I don't follow the development of your suspicions on him. The characterization of juicebox as desperate bothers me, since even if he's low activity he seems unflappable.
Lack of effort. It's not a change of major behavior since my last read on him - he was just the second option, since Lucky's priest claim was still somewhat believed.
It's not wagoning - I read the explanations for why 'wait 4 vote' priest claim was a bad call, and moved to the next person on my scumlist. He hasn't posted anything yet to change my feelings on him, and I think he's a safe lynch.
I've got a case I'm building - I think I'm onto something. I just need to know if Juice or Lucky is town or mafia - once I know that, I can make my case. I've got a building feeling that folks have been looking in the wrong direction - it's a hunch, but Lucky, Toony, and ICT are my runner up scum team. That's if what happens tonight happens to my guesstimate.
Why am I saying this? Because I want my suspicions put down for the final tally, at the end of this.
Besides - I'm confirmed scum to half the town at this point, damn any attempt to reason.
I'll make a post once I'm off work with the small theory I'm building isofar later - but my vote stays on Juice.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 03:41:01 pm
It's a little sad that I can believe Tric doing a weird doublebluff claim play like that. From what I can gauge of emotional states in the spat, both of the two seem to be genuine. Tric seems honest about being a knight, maybe even a town knight when combined with past plays, and NQT is rightfully mad about the misplay. Town points to both, looks v/v to me.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 03:50:01 pm
I'm going to put my vote on Juicebox. Out of everyone, his plays feel the most desperate for scum at this point.
What part of juicebox's ten or whatever posts makes you think he's desperate, or are you just joining a wagon?
I checked your posts and the juicebox suspicion doesn't come completely out of left field though I don't follow the development of your suspicions on him. The characterization of juicebox as desperate bothers me, since even if he's low activity he seems unflappable.
Lack of effort. It's not a change of major behavior since my last read on him - he was just the second option, since Lucky's priest claim was still somewhat believed.
It's not wagoning - I read the explanations for why 'wait 4 vote' priest claim was a bad call, and moved to the next person on my scumlist. He hasn't posted anything yet to change my feelings on him, and I think he's a safe lynch.
OK ... lack of effort <=> desperate? Look: I'm not buying this for half a second because the tells you're mentioning don't match with the emotions you're claiming lead to them, but I'm still going for the Lucky lynch over you today. So if you're around tomorrow, we're going to talk and I want to hear your theory.
Playing with you is weird because it's like looking in a mirror 10 years ago. I like having you around and really hope you stay in the forum a long time, but, you gotta work on getting in there a little more. Having a little more presence. So: bring your case as soon as you've got it, but know that I'm waiting.
You should also probably know that as scum you need to double-check your claims a little more, because if we do play alike, you should know that internal emotional consistency is going to be a big tell for you. You can be polite and get yourself off the hook for minor errors a la "Jim Groovester's votes" but eventually you're going to need to come in with something concrete.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 03:50:57 pm
Conclusions
- I no longer support a Lucky lynch, there's too much mutual hostility for them to be a good team candidate.
I checked your posts and the juicebox suspicion doesn't come completely out of left field though I don't follow the development of your suspicions on him. The characterization of juicebox as desperate bothers me, since even if he's low activity he seems unflappable.
Lack of effort. It's not a change of major behavior since my last read on him - he was just the second option, since Lucky's priest claim was still somewhat believed.
I'm pretty convinced you're just making stuff up at this point. Lack of effort and desperation are hard to confuse.
Luckyowl, I'd prefer a blue chop but lucky works too, they've got decent equity together.
I want Persus13, but I want BluearianKnight over LuckyOwl. I'm not going to be super broken up about a LuckyOwl lynch but I'd be surprised if he flipped scum.
Any takers?
Ninjaed by Vector
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 03:54:30 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 03:58:59 pm
Honestly, I think BK is scum, but I don't trust LO to rez in town favor regardless of alignment. Which is sad, but I'm worried that leaving LO alive is just going to multiply our problems.Roughly my thoughts as well.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:05:23 pm
I'm content with either. Although the more I think about it the more I'd prefer lucky first purely from a mechanical standpoint: if blue t/lucky w lynching blue means we end up wasting two days on swatting blue (one on town blue and one on rezzed blue), the only worse scenario is them as t/t which I'm pretty sure isn't in the cards this game. Town priest is also a very mrrr role that I'm not super fussed about losing if we're wrong, both from a town mindset and, selfishly, as a survivor.Luckyowl, I'd prefer a blue chop but lucky works too, they've got decent equity together.
I want Persus13, but I want BluearianKnight over LuckyOwl. I'm not going to be super broken up about a LuckyOwl lynch but I'd be surprised if he flipped scum.
Any takers?
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 04:09:58 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 04:13:02 pm
Alright, I changed my mind, BluarianKnight is scum.
Knew you'd come around.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:15:14 pm
Bluarianknight.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:15:49 pm
Alright, I changed my mind, BluarianKnight is scum.Took you long enough.
I'll change my vote-And so the lolcats begin.
Bluarianknight.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 04:16:51 pm
I hate voting for new play--Alright, I changed my mind, BluarianKnight is scum.
Knew you'd come around.
I'll change my vote---What.
Bluarianknight.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 04:20:21 pm
I'll change my vote-Explain.
Bluarianknight.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 04:20:45 pm
My faith in LuckyOwl might be completely misplaced but if we hit scum today and LuckyOwl isn't scum, I don't think even he would resurrect that dead scum player.
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that the potential damage LuckyOwl could do during N1 as a Priest is reasonably mitigated by a D1 scum lynch.
Of course, the damage is completely mitigated by lynching LuckyOwl, but I'm less certain of LuckyOwl's scumminess than I am of Persus13's and BluearianKnight's.
I'll change my vote-
Bluarianknight.
Pretty sure there's never been a jester role in Supernatural before. Eeveryone, am I correct about that?
There's no good reason to do this except to save LuckyOwl from the lynch which is mega wtf WIFOM.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 04:22:11 pm
Alright, I changed my mind, BluarianKnight is scum.Took you long enough.I'll change my vote-And so the lolcats begin.
Bluarianknight.
Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 04:24:05 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:24:12 pm
I'll put my claim down now. Dreamwalker.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 04:25:27 pm
Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?
. . . . . You do realize that you're talking to all but confirmed scum, right?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:25:47 pm
Werewolf Leader - Kills a random non-werewolf when lynched
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 04:25:57 pm
I'll change my vote-Huh??
Bluarianknight.
I'm done with work so I'll have some earlier stuff answered shortly.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 04:26:57 pm
Ahhh, you know there is one role that one wants to be lynched:Werewolf Leader - Kills a random non-werewolf when lynched
Worth, it honestly.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:29:50 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:31:47 pm
Maybe it was my confidence from Vengeful- I've learned a lot from this, and I'll make sure to avoid my previous mistakes.
Sorry for being a bloody mess, town. I'll do better next time, I swear.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:32:09 pm
A werewolf leader and werewolf priest team don't want their priest to die before being able to raise and they don't want their leader to be Hunted or killed by an SK. Blue has good reason to suspect both could happen and they'd defo lose.
Anyway that's the only way this play makes sense, right?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:32:20 pm
So werewolf team need luckywolf to be alive to res someone for the team, so Blue the leader is stepping in to stop LO lynch. Blue dies, kills a randomer, Lucky raises the random to their team? Not great, but better than being one down with Blue possibly soaking an nk N1.This isn't a terrible interpretation but relies on the scumteam being exactly one specific type and Blue having one specific role, along with both of them being wolves.
Weren't you not a huge fan of "lucky wolf"? What changed?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:33:08 pm
Edit for clarity:I mean "self-vote then ATE" is a pretty common strategy among newer players, town and wolf. It feels like you're overthinking here.
A werewolf leader and werewolf priest team don't want their priest to die before being able to raise and they don't want their leader to be Hunted or killed by an SK. Blue has good reason to suspect both could happen and they'd defo lose.
Anyway that's the only way this play makes sense, right?
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 04:33:49 pm
Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?What gambit is that? You self-voted as town last game we played, can you explain this?
Every move I've made has led me to be more scum. I am.. willing to put myself out of the equation.Why is putting yourself out of the equation at all a good move for your team? If you're town, it wastes the lynch. If you're scum, it wastes a scum player.
I'll put my claim down now. Dreamwalker.
If this isn't some sort of ploy, this is a terrible first impression for a new player.
I've just made a lot of poor plays. I know why I look scum.Oh, an emotional appeal. Fuck you, do better this time.
Maybe it was my confidence from Vengeful- I've learned a lot from this, and I'll make sure to avoid my previous mistakes.
Sorry for being a bloody mess, town. I'll do better next time, I swear.
So werewolf team need luckywolf to be alive to res someone for the team, so Blue the leader is stepping in to stop LO lynch. Blue dies, kills a randomer, Lucky raises the random to their team? Not great, but better than being one down with Blue possibly soaking an nk N1.Makes sense but that's a lot of assumptions. I think this world would put the third scum as one of the veterans, because LO would definitely not make that plan, and I'm doubtful of BK.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:34:18 pm
But yeah I might be overthinking. I'm just entertaining scenarios here. What do you mean by ATE?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 04:34:29 pm
@Vector:I wanted to see if Lucky would vote Blue like I told them to. I kept quiet because I didn't want to give Lucky the answer until they finally spoke up.Toony: I like your readslist. Can you expand a little on why Toaster's behavior is weird and you don't trust them at all? Do you think Toaster's monster post is bussing BK?I'll have more to say on this after Lucky posts. If they don't post, then well...my vote stays.
@Blue:Toony - Why are you giving luckyowl an out, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252838#msg8252838) when your scum radar felt otherwise? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252508#msg8252508) Feels like a quick switch.Fret not, I'll have more to say on this in a bit.
Instead, they vote Webadict (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) and ignore my Blue post.
Next, they gave their scum reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924) and again did not mention Blue at all.
Currently, they aren't even here. I would be fighting for my life at this point, what are they up to? Lucky?
PPE:
I've just made a lot of poor plays. I know why I look scum.It's never too late.
Maybe it was my confidence from Vengeful- I've learned a lot from this, and I'll make sure to avoid my previous mistakes.
Sorry for being a bloody mess, town. I'll do better next time, I swear.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 04:35:37 pm
Edit for clarity:
A werewolf leader and werewolf priest team don't want their priest to die before being able to raise and they don't want their leader to be Hunted or killed by an SK. Blue has good reason to suspect both could happen and they'd defo lose.
Anyway that's the only way this play makes sense, right?
Could be that LuckyOwl is a Vampire Lord and fakeclaimed Priest on Day 1 for some reason. It's a stretch.
I've just made a lot of poor plays. I know why I look scum.
Maybe it was my confidence from Vengeful- I've learned a lot from this, and I'll make sure to avoid my previous mistakes.
Sorry for being a bloody mess, town. I'll do better next time, I swear.
If you're giving up shame on you.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:36:17 pm
Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?What gambit is that? You self-voted as town last game we played, can you explain this?Every move I've made has led me to be more scum. I am.. willing to put myself out of the equation.Why is putting yourself out of the equation at all a good move for your team? If you're town, it wastes the lynch. If you're scum, it wastes a scum player.
I'll put my claim down now. Dreamwalker.
If this isn't some sort of ploy, this is a terrible first impression for a new player.I've just made a lot of poor plays. I know why I look scum.Oh, an emotional appeal. Fuck you, do better this time.
Maybe it was my confidence from Vengeful- I've learned a lot from this, and I'll make sure to avoid my previous mistakes.
Sorry for being a bloody mess, town. I'll do better next time, I swear.So werewolf team need luckywolf to be alive to res someone for the team, so Blue the leader is stepping in to stop LO lynch. Blue dies, kills a randomer, Lucky raises the random to their team? Not great, but better than being one down with Blue possibly soaking an nk N1.Makes sense but that's a lot of assumptions. I think this world would put the third scum as one of the veterans, because LO would definitely not make that plan, and I'm doubtful of BK.
Fuck it, you're right.
I also see I don't get revealed by lynch, so.. yeah, you're right.
Luckyowl
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:37:22 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 04:38:17 pm
Re: NQT vs. TricI think you mean me here and not NQT??
It's a little sad that I can believe Tric doing a weird doublebluff claim play like that. From what I can gauge of emotional states in the spat, both of the two seem to be genuine. Tric seems honest about being a knight, maybe even a town knight when combined with past plays, and NQT is rightfully mad about the misplay. Town points to both, looks v/v to me.
Hah.Every move I've made has led me to be more scum. I am.. willing to put myself out of the equation.Why is putting yourself out of the equation at all a good move for your team? If you're town, it wastes the lynch. If you're scum, it wastes a scum player.
I'll put my claim down now. Dreamwalker.
If this isn't some sort of ploy, this is a terrible first impression for a new player.
IcyTea saying self-voting is terrible. I agree, of course.
@Blue:
Chill. A leveled-head sees all.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:38:45 pm
In fairness so did you.Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?What gambit is that? You self-voted as town last game we played, can you explain this?
4mask, I'm trying to work out what possible scenario would lead Blue to implode and self vote after almost no provocation. Can he not count? He wasn't going to be lynched. Why throw in the towel? I don't see the town reasoning.I seem to remember someone miscounting the votes on him and panic-using a powerful one-shot as town in a previous game. A played significantly more veteran than Blue is.
But yeah I might be overthinking. I'm just entertaining scenarios here. What do you mean by ATE?
That aside, what I'm talking about is the way some newer players react in situations like this, when they feel, rightly or not, that their death by the town is inevitable. Some players will, at that point, assume they're done for and essentially concede, regardless of their own alignment, and acknowledge the ways they screwed up that game. Sometimes purely seriously, sometimes as a final gambit to try and evoke sympathy and get out of the wagon, sometimes both.
Give me a chance - if by D2 you don't see town, then go ahead and lunch me.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:39:02 pm
Blue, wait what, why don't you reveal on death?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:40:34 pm
Doesn't mean anything for his alignment specifically but I'm inclined to believe the claim.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:40:54 pm
Jim, ah yes, sacrifice to save the converter. That could work. I mean a scum priest is kind of a converter anyway, so he could just be a slave without powers sacrificing for the team?
Blue, wait what, why don't you reveal on death?
I assumed it isnt revealed due to the revival powers- do folks get revealed on death? I didn't see it in the rules.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 04:41:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:42:11 pm
Reveals happen on death, yes. However, due to the possible presence of revival magic there is no deadchat.Jim, ah yes, sacrifice to save the converter. That could work. I mean a scum priest is kind of a converter anyway, so he could just be a slave without powers sacrificing for the team?
Blue, wait what, why don't you reveal on death?
I assumed it isnt revealed due to the revival powers- do folks get revealed on death? I didn't see it in the rules.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 04:43:47 pm
If my memory doesn't fail me blue did set up the dreamwalker claim earlier, he came into the thread to see Vector's question of how dreamwalkers worked and asked if anyone had claimed it.
Doesn't mean anything for his alignment specifically but I'm inclined to believe the claim.
Yes, I noticed that too and assumed that was what they intended to claim.
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 04:43:59 pm
Reveals happen on death, yes. However, due to the possible presence of revival magic there is no deadchat.Jim, ah yes, sacrifice to save the converter. That could work. I mean a scum priest is kind of a converter anyway, so he could just be a slave without powers sacrificing for the team?
Blue, wait what, why don't you reveal on death?
I assumed it isnt revealed due to the revival powers- do folks get revealed on death? I didn't see it in the rules.
Thank you for the clarification.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:44:06 pm
I seem to remember someone miscounting the votes on him and panic-using a powerful one-shot as town in a previous game. A played significantly more veteran than Blue is.Good point, end of day panic, posts appearing quicker than you can react to can mean drastic moves... And yes, some players do throw in the town and self-vote, I've seen that before. But, I dunno, it seemed particularly unforced this time.
That aside, what I'm talking about is the way some newer players react in situations like this, when they feel, rightly or not, that their death by the town is inevitable. Some players will, at that point, assume they're done for and essentially concede, regardless of their own alignment, and acknowledge the ways they screwed up that game. Sometimes purely seriously, sometimes as a final gambit to try and evoke sympathy and get out of the wagon, sometimes both.
--
Maybe the Dark Magus doesn't flip the first time? I'll have to check.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 04:44:43 pm
Bit late to pull that gambit blue, how about a case instead?What gambit is that? You self-voted as town last game we played, can you explain this?Fuck it, you're right.That was a question, not a pep talk. Please answer.
I also see I don't get revealed by lynch, so.. yeah, you're right.
Luckyowl@IcyTea:Nah, I meant posts like this one:Re: NQT vs. TricI think you mean me here and not NQT??
It's a little sad that I can believe Tric doing a weird doublebluff claim play like that. From what I can gauge of emotional states in the spat, both of the two seem to be genuine. Tric seems honest about being a knight, maybe even a town knight when combined with past plays, and NQT is rightfully mad about the misplay. Town points to both, looks v/v to me.Do you understand that Tric? Tell me the role name.For NQT's standards, that's anger.QuoteHah.Hey now, I'm not saying it's always terrible. Surrendering is, however. My self-vote in BYOR15 wasn't a surrender.
IcyTea saying self-voting is terrible. I agree, of course.In fairness so did you.Yeah, but this isn't that gambit, which is why I'm asking.QuoteSometimes purely seriously, sometimes as a final gambit to try and evoke sympathy and get out of the wagon, sometimes both.The issue is, there wasn't really a wagon at the time.
Fuck it get this post out, reading more as they come.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 04:49:06 pm
Maybe the Dark Magus doesn't flip the first time? I'll have to check.Their rolename flips at least. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5488594#msg5488594)
Dark Magus doesn't start with any allies, but they do have a one-shot convert.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:50:15 pm
I have no idea if this is any more cantankerous than a regular mafia game.
And no, even the Dark Magus with the self-resurrection flips:
The man simply smiles for a bit. Then he gets a concerned look on his face, and his eyes glaze over. Moments later, he falls to the floor. The High Priest, looks down at his lifeless body. "We have found our Dark Magus, my friends! And yet, it seems he was not without allies. I sense that we are still in danger..." his voice trails off.
Persus13 is already inside when you get there, a smirk on his face.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:54:03 pm
4mask is trying to say Blue is just a jumpy town player that gave up prematurely (and then was convinced to play on). I'm going to go back and check this Dreamwalker interaction.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 04:56:21 pm
Toony beat me to it re: the magus. I don't think it's a likely role for Blue though if he didn't think there'd be role flips knowing you have a self-res would give someone a bit more breathing space. Still, it doesn't really make sense.self-res is also a dead giveaway.
4mask is trying to say Blue is just a jumpy town player that gave up prematurely (and then was convinced to play on). I'm going to go back and check this Dreamwalker interaction.
I think that blue is probably a wolf still, their behavior all game has been hella wolfy, I'm just cautioning against reading too much into their surrender.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 04:59:37 pm
Is someone claiming Dreamwalker?I don't think this massively clears Bluarian. Scum can be Dreamwalkers, indeed a different member of the scumteam could even be a Dreamwalker. And there can be multiples of the same town role. Claiming something that doesn't do anything active is also a normal fakeclaim for scum.
If Bluarian is jumpy town, we don't want to lynch him. If he's the leader we probably don't want to lynch him. If he's jumpy scum of some other variant (a third party even) then we do want to lynch.... Hmm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 05:05:36 pm
Is someone claiming Dreamwalker?I don't think this massively clears Bluarian. Scum can be Dreamwalkers, indeed a different member of the scumteam could even be a Dreamwalker. And there can be multiples of the same town role. Claiming something that doesn't do anything active is also a normal fakeclaim for scum.
If Bluarian is jumpy town, we don't want to lynch him. If he's the leader we probably don't want to lynch him. If he's jumpy scum of some other variant (a third party even) then we do want to lynch.... Hmm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At a certain point you have to set the wine down and make a decision. Answer me this one question. Set aside your thoughts of what shenanigans or gambits the scumteam might be up to. Is Blue a wolf? Is their behavior, in your opinion, wolfy and worth of elimination.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 05:20:59 pm
To note though, this is what the vote counts were at when Blue imploded:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: Toaster, Jim Groovester
juicebox: BluarianKnight, notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan, Vector, webadict, 4maskwolf
Persus13: TricMagic
Toaster: Persus13
webadict: Luckyowl
He had literally just one additional vote on him, bringing him up to 2. Bluarian, why did you implode at this??
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 26, 2021, 05:23:59 pm
Quote from: Jim tabulated vote count
BluarianKnight: Toaster Jim GLORY DAYS Groovester Vector
juicebox: notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan, webadict 4maskwolf BluearianKnight
Persus13: TricMagic
Toaster: Persus13
webadict: Luckyowl
Did this to double check if votes were tied or not.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 05:25:43 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: Toaster, Jim Groovester, Vector
juicebox: notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan, webadict, 4maskwolf,BluarianKnight
Persus13: TricMagic
Toaster: Persus13
webadict: Luckyowl
We've got two and a half hours left. Not too late to see some big changes. If no one else wants to lynch the obvious scum player, Juicebox, I will reluctantly join another wagon before the day's end.
PPE: OK Jim beat me to the vote count, and we got the same numbers.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 05:29:03 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 05:34:42 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on February 26, 2021, 05:35:45 pm
You make a reasonable point, 4mask. Thinking more on it, I do want to see what his Dream claim is tomorrow but this whole episode is super sketchy.
To note though, this is what the vote counts were at when Blue imploded:The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: Toaster, Jim Groovester
juicebox: BluarianKnight, notquitethere
Luckyowl: IcyTea31, ToonyMan, Vector, webadict, 4maskwolf
Persus13: TricMagic
Toaster: Persus13
webadict: Luckyowl
He had literally just one additional vote on him, bringing him up to 2. Bluarian, why did you implode at this??
Two reasons;
One. I thought the day ended 5 PM EST. My mistake.
2. The reactions to my previous post simply swapped the few folks who believe me town to scum.
It was demoralizing,
Post by: juicebox on February 26, 2021, 05:40:49 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 05:42:13 pm
I go to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to this mess. So apparently Tric is a werebear and BK is a dreamwalker, which, I don't really know what to make of either of those claims atm. I'm going to be at work when day ends, so I'm going to leave my vote on BluarianKnight for jumping the moment multiple votes were placed on them, and attempting to shift the votes onto an easy target, with what wasn't even a good case.Claims as they stand are actually 4mask: survivor, Tric: Knight, Lucky: Priest, and BK: Dreamwalker.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 05:44:10 pm
I go to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to this mess. So apparently Tric is a werebear and BK is a dreamwalker, which, I don't really know what to make of either of those claims atm. I'm going to be at work when day ends, so I'm going to leave my vote on BluarianKnight for jumping the moment multiple votes were placed on them, and attempting to shift the votes onto an easy target, with what wasn't even a good case.... Last minute vote is not the best, particularly missing the conclusion to that werebear business while catching the dreamwalker bit. Who briefed you Juicebox. Blue is looking easy at the moment.
4mask, did you have to ruin that poke?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 05:44:24 pm
At least Blue is here. Lucky can't give us tells if they ghost us. I wonder why they wouldn't want to give tells?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 05:48:03 pm
One. I thought the day ended 5 PM EST. My mistake.Relatable: I made the same mistake in BYOR15, thinking the day was ending an hour sooner than it was.
If LO is town, I can firmly suggest a Persus/NQT/IcyTea team. Ignoring all other evidence. And NQT, reluctance doesn't change my opinion of you either. What's the saying, dead air equals dead townie? Persus hasn't absolved Secretdorf's play at all.I'm not sure why you think ignoring all evidence is a good way to make reads but OK. Also you need to learn some elementary logic: dead air dead town means that if it's quiet at the end of day, town die. That doesn't mean the opposite is true, that an active end of day always leads to a scum lynch. That's absurd and patently false.
PPE: but I guess I'm glad you agree about Juice.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 05:48:05 pm
If LO is town, I can firmly suggest a Persus/NQT/IcyTea team. Ignoring all other evidence. And NQT, reluctance doesn't change my opinion of you either. What's the saying, dead air equals dead townie? Persus hasn't absolved Secretdorf's play at all.>votes Juicebox
So is Lucky mafia then?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 05:50:34 pm
I mean...I go to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to this mess. So apparently Tric is a werebear and BK is a dreamwalker, which, I don't really know what to make of either of those claims atm. I'm going to be at work when day ends, so I'm going to leave my vote on BluarianKnight for jumping the moment multiple votes were placed on them, and attempting to shift the votes onto an easy target, with what wasn't even a good case.... Last minute vote is not the best, particularly missing the conclusion to that werebear business while catching the dreamwalker bit. Who briefed you Juicebox. Blue is looking easy at the moment.
4mask, did you have to ruin that poke?
Can it really be called ruining if I posted first?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 06:07:20 pm
I mean...I go to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to this mess. So apparently Tric is a werebear and BK is a dreamwalker, which, I don't really know what to make of either of those claims atm. I'm going to be at work when day ends, so I'm going to leave my vote on BluarianKnight for jumping the moment multiple votes were placed on them, and attempting to shift the votes onto an easy target, with what wasn't even a good case.... Last minute vote is not the best, particularly missing the conclusion to that werebear business while catching the dreamwalker bit. Who briefed you Juicebox. Blue is looking easy at the moment.
4mask, did you have to ruin that poke?
Can it really be called ruining if I posted first?
Not really, but kind of annoying to get ninja'd.
And NQT, ignoring all other evidence would get that result for me. I'm not going to, but that's how it looks to me from a day 1 perspective. You also aren't helping my view of you with such loaded subtext.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 06:10:50 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 06:12:28 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 06:23:30 pm
Well, joint last in the last lurker tracker (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252944;topicseen#msg8252944), admittedly over 12 hours ago.
This was their grand case of D1:
Starting to lean town on Toaster as well. His posts have a town quality to them.
Secretdorf's attempt to shift votes onto seem rather desperate to me. Was going to give them the benefit of the doubt since they were asking for a replacement, but I think I'd be comfortable voting them now.
And now this is what they've rolled in with, having misread the thread:
I go to sleep for a couple hours and wake up to this mess. So apparently Tric is a werebear and BK is a dreamwalker, which, I don't really know what to make of either of those claims atm. I'm going to be at work when day ends, so I'm going to leave my vote on BluarianKnight for jumping the moment multiple votes were placed on them, and attempting to shift the votes onto an easy target, with what wasn't even a good case.
How is shifting the vote off of oneself alignment indicative? Why is LuckyOwl not a good case for today?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 06:24:27 pm
Why is LuckyOwl not a good case for today?(Yeah, I have reasons why, but I want to know what a Juicebox reason looks like.)
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:26:41 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 26, 2021, 06:28:05 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on February 26, 2021, 06:29:55 pm
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:31:15 pm
Quote from: Mamobo (current)
Vote CountSorry, it's hard to read your vote count, Meph.
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 4 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253273#msg8253273), Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253337#msg8253337), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253253#msg8253253),
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253341#msg8253341), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253226#msg8253226),
Luckyowl - 6 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253146#msg8253146), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253291#msg8253291), Secretdorf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253236#msg8253236), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253030#msg8253030), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252866#msg8252866),
notquitethere - 0 -
Secretdorf - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
webadict - 1 - Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 19:00 CST (1 hours and 31 minutes remaining.)
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 06:31:46 pm
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 06:33:34 pm
I think ToonyMan is the scum team. His playstyle remind me of SecretDorf in terminator. He tries to act like he's trying to help me out, but really he is trying to get me lynch. I already told you I worked today. Yet you ask me where Am I?
... classic luckyowl.. Except updated with some new factor.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 26, 2021, 06:34:51 pm
I don't believe you're playing in town's interests for once.
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:37:47 pm
is all the vote piling onto me? well, there goes town rez. A damn shame really.Alright, Lucky, you've entered hostage negotiation territory. What are your demands?
Right, but you're going after ToonyMan who is legitimately one of the Towniest players in the game. You're not voting for anyone you believe is scum. You're literally doing nothing beneficial for Town, so how can you justify your stance?I don't believe you're playing in town's interests for once.
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 06:38:25 pm
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 06:38:48 pm
I don't believe you're playing in town's interests for once.
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
There aren't hammers in effect right now. Also I really am not going to trust a roleflip from you right now with a line like that.
... Hua.. That line also makes me want to vote you, which tells me that you don't actually care about being lynched. 21 minutes left in the day.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 06:40:10 pm
... classic luckyowl.. Except updated with some new factor.Okay, I just gotta let out my frustration at this point. Is this some new mafia meme I've missed where people say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves, and then act like they said anything?
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 06:40:22 pm
Why Juice over Lucky?
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:41:03 pm
1 hour 21 minutes.I don't believe you're playing in town's interests for once.
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
There aren't hammers in effect right now. Also I really am not going to trust a roleflip from you right now with a line like that.
... Hua.. That line also makes me want to vote you, which tells me that you don't actually care about being lynched. 21 minutes left in the day.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 26, 2021, 06:41:19 pm
Quote from: Mamobo (current)Vote CountSorry, it's hard to read your vote count, Meph.
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 4 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253273#msg8253273), Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253337#msg8253337), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253253#msg8253253),
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 2 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253341#msg8253341), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253226#msg8253226),
Luckyowl - 6 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253146#msg8253146), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253291#msg8253291), Secretdorf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253236#msg8253236), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253030#msg8253030), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252866#msg8252866),
notquitethere - 0 -
Secretdorf - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
webadict - 1 - Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 19:00 CST (1 hours and 31 minutes remaining.)
Is it? Hmm, I suppose I could add in the numeric count in the front as well, like you have with mamobo.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 06:42:33 pm
21 minutes left in the day.An hour and 21 minutes I think, no?
---
Lucky this is you:"I won't vote Blue because then people will think I'm scummy and lynch me, so instead I'll let them lynch me."
Make it make sense.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:44:43 pm
At my computer, it's usually fine, but on mobile, it is really tough. My eyes are probably just garbage.Sorry, it's hard to read your vote count, Meph.
Is it? Hmm, I suppose I could add in the numeric count in the front as well, like you have with mamobo.
Eh, I use a script to generate it based off my vote spreadsheet. Might as well make it easier on people. Uh...woops, hit modify instead of reply. Sorry! I sometimes forget that I can do that to other people's posts.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 06:44:58 pm
@Tric:
Why Juice over Lucky?
Because I still hope Lucky will start making sense with time. Right now that hope is fading.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 26, 2021, 06:46:47 pm
is all the vote piling onto me? well, there goes town rez. A damn shame really.Alright, Lucky, you've entered hostage negotiation territory. What are your demands?Right, but you're going after ToonyMan who is legitimately one of the Towniest players in the game. You're not voting for anyone you believe is scum. You're literally doing nothing beneficial for Town, so how can you justify your stance?I don't believe you're playing in town's interests for once.
Gonna vote Blue? Or Juice? Or me? Or someone else?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
I am going after him, because things are aligning for me. Why go after JB who look scummy? but is probably town? why go after paranoid Tric who is most likely town? Sure, there is scummy players who acts scummy. But good scum player try to act as town. ToonyMan is giving off that FBI agent vibe real hard right now.
Post by: Luckyowl on February 26, 2021, 06:49:10 pm
21 minutes left in the day.An hour and 21 minutes I think, no?
---
Lucky this is you:"I won't vote Blue because then people will think I'm scummy and lynch me, so instead I'll let them lynch me."
Make it make sense.
fine, BlularianKnight. They have the same townie act from Vengeful mafia 14 and gave that sorry plead to not vote him.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 06:50:53 pm
I am going after him, because things are aligning for me. Why go after JB who look scummy? but is probably town? why go after paranoid Tric who is most likely town? Sure, there is scummy players who acts scummy. But good scum player try to act as town. ToonyMan is giving off that FBI agent vibe real hard right now.I actually believe you are one of the few players that can make that justification. However, even if you think ToonyMan is scum, a ToonyMan elimination is not gonna happen. You'll need more evidence than your gut feeling on that one. So, who else is scummy?
PPE: Ninja'd.
BuarianKnight is a legitimate pick. What else can you provide?
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 06:53:26 pm
... classic luckyowl.. Except updated with some new factor.Okay, I just gotta let out my frustration at this point. Is this some new mafia meme I've missed where people say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves, and then act like they said anything?
Not that I know of, and call me out if you catch me doing it.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 06:55:36 pm
Ugh, not my finest hour. It was interesting being able to talk while confirmed scum.Maybe the Dark Magus doesn't flip the first time? I'll have to check.Their rolename flips at least. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5488594#msg5488594)
Dark Magus doesn't start with any allies, but they do have a one-shot convert.
Eh, I use a script to generate it based off my vote spreadsheet. Might as well make it easier on people. Uh...woops, hit modify instead of reply. Sorry! I sometimes forget that I can do that to other people's posts.LoL Meph.
This is just Tric being Tric I think.... classic luckyowl.. Except updated with some new factor.Okay, I just gotta let out my frustration at this point. Is this some new mafia meme I've missed where people say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves, and then act like they said anything?
Not that I know of, and call me out if you catch me doing it.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:01:13 pm
fine, BlularianKnight. They have the same townie act from Vengeful mafia 14 and gave that sorry plead to not vote him.OK I went and had a look:
Spoiler: Bluarian in Vengeful Mafia (click to show/hide)
And Lucky is kinda right. Once Scum!Blue thought he'd lost he put on a contrite "I'm playing so poorly" kind of act which swayed Lucky at the time. I can see why Lucky wouldn't want to be fooled twice. This insight and interaction makes me feel even better about Lucky. So...
BluarianKnight
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:04:57 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:07:55 pm
Wow, I come back to Tric pulling roll shenanigans and Blu imploding. I think this sets a record for most D1 claims in a Supernatural?This is an aside, but I don't like this modern meta of a ton of people claiming Day 1, by the way.
I could buy a Blue LO scumteam, but if it was anyone else I think they'd have talked him out of it before he voted himself. My vote stays on Toaster for now, I want to see Blu's claim tomorrow though.Weird way to phrase that. Are you sure Blue will be lynched? Are you sure Blue will be res'd?
@Luckyowl:
If you're alive tonight, you know what you should do.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:11:31 pm
This is just Tric being Tric I think.No, I noticed it a couple times earlier from other people. I think it was Secretdorf with the "probably town or probably not town" read. Anyway, not important.
I've been trying to figure out what the hell is going on in this EoD, and though I have a headache, I still think Luckyowl and BluarianKnight are good candidates. BKs practically unprompted surrender was extremely bizarre and I don't think it makes sense from a town perspective. NQT's call of it being a plot to save LO is the only thing that makes sense if I assume logical actors, but I don't think I can make that assumption anymore.
Having two good scum picks at the end of D1 is suspiciously fortuitous, though, and my gut doesn't like it.
@Luckyowl:!!!
If you're alive tonight, you know what you should do.
If Luckyowl truly has a revive and is town, their only available move is to revive the lynchee or not to act. The lynchee has to be town for revival to be a sensible move. What do you know about this situation that I don't?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:13:00 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 07:14:03 pm
Blu claimed Dreamwalker and at least when I posted Lucky was still going to be lynched. So presumably he'll get a Dream if he's alive tonight. He seems like he's going to be lynched now, so that probably won't happen now.I could buy a Blue LO scumteam, but if it was anyone else I think they'd have talked him out of it before he voted himself. My vote stays on Toaster for now, I want to see Blu's claim tomorrow though.Weird way to phrase that. Are you sure Blue will be lynched? Are you sure Blue will be res'd?
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2021, 07:15:14 pm
Fair enough, I haven't had to scumhunt Secret this game.This is just Tric being Tric I think.No, I noticed it a couple times earlier from other people. I think it was Secretdorf with the "probably town or probably not town" read. Anyway, not important.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:19:23 pm
Web, Mamobo doesn't know about Persus and hasn't tallied their newer votes.Oh shoot, you're right. I never programmed in replacements, and I can't do that in 40 minutes, but good catch. I can run something for that.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:22:19 pm
I think you answered your question.@Luckyowl:!!!
If you're alive tonight, you know what you should do.
If Luckyowl truly has a revive and is town, their only available move is to revive the lynchee or not to act. The lynchee has to be town for revival to be a sensible move. What do you know about this situation that I don't?
Lucky's choices:
1. If mafia, probably want to res no matter what.
2. If town, decide whether to res on N1 (mafia is a no-go, town...it's up to them, isn't it?).
Okay...voting Toaster probably isn't going to make a difference, think you can push a lynch on Toaster? What about players with more votes?Blu claimed Dreamwalker and at least when I posted Lucky was still going to be lynched. So presumably he'll get a Dream if he's alive tonight. He seems like he's going to be lynched now, so that probably won't happen now.I could buy a Blue LO scumteam, but if it was anyone else I think they'd have talked him out of it before he voted himself. My vote stays on Toaster for now, I want to see Blu's claim tomorrow though.Weird way to phrase that. Are you sure Blue will be lynched? Are you sure Blue will be res'd?
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:25:11 pm
Lurker Track
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4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251254#msg8251254) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251422#msg8251422) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251456#msg8251456) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251531#msg8251531) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251549#msg8251549) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251771#msg8251771) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251794#msg8251794) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251797#msg8251797) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251804#msg8251804) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251811#msg8251811) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251815#msg8251815) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251818#msg8251818) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251823#msg8251823) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251834#msg8251834) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251838#msg8251838) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251839#msg8251839) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251843#msg8251843) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251858#msg8251858) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251888#msg8251888) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251895#msg8251895) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251898#msg8251898) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251904#msg8251904) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251910#msg8251910) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251911#msg8251911) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251912#msg8251912) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251918#msg8251918) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251919#msg8251919) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251926#msg8251926) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251930#msg8251930) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251934#msg8251934) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251936#msg8251936) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251944#msg8251944) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251962#msg8251962) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251965#msg8251965) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251966#msg8251966) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251968#msg8251968) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251973#msg8251973) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251987#msg8251987) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251995#msg8251995) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252005#msg8252005) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252256#msg8252256) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252259#msg8252259) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252269#msg8252269) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252274#msg8252274) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252284#msg8252284) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252293#msg8252293) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252303#msg8252303) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252305#msg8252305) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252308#msg8252308) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252313#msg8252313) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252319#msg8252319) 53 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252435#msg8252435) 54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252437#msg8252437) 55 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252443#msg8252443) 56 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252444#msg8252444) 57 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252445#msg8252445) 58 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252478#msg8252478) 59 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252479#msg8252479) 60 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252480#msg8252480) 61 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252481#msg8252481) 62 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252623#msg8252623) 63 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252624#msg8252624) 64 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252625#msg8252625) 65 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252628#msg8252628) 66 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252629#msg8252629) 67 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252650#msg8252650) 68 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252651#msg8252651) 69 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252657#msg8252657) 70 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252658#msg8252658) 71 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252663#msg8252663) 72 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252666#msg8252666) 73 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252681#msg8252681) 74 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252683#msg8252683) 75 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252687#msg8252687) 76 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252691#msg8252691) 77 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252699#msg8252699) 78 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252705#msg8252705) 79 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252709#msg8252709) 80 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252726#msg8252726) 81 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252749#msg8252749) 82 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252750#msg8252750) 83 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252765#msg8252765) 84 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252772#msg8252772) 85 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252942#msg8252942) 86 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252945#msg8252945) 87 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252948#msg8252948) 88 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253098#msg8253098) 89 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253099#msg8253099) 90 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253159#msg8253159) 91 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253165#msg8253165) 92 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253188#msg8253188) 93 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253189#msg8253189) 94 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253198#msg8253198) 95 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253215#msg8253215) 96 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253236#msg8253236) 97 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253259#msg8253259) 98 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253266#msg8253266) 99 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253284#msg8253284) 100 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253285#msg8253285) 101 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253294#msg8253294) 102 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253296#msg8253296) 103 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253299#msg8253299) 104 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253309#msg8253309) 105 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253315#msg8253315) 106 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253338#msg8253338) 107 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253350#msg8253350) Last post was 1 hour ago.
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251210#msg8251210) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251901#msg8251901) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251905#msg8251905) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251916#msg8251916) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251958#msg8251958) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251985#msg8251985) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252406#msg8252406) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252467#msg8252467) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252468#msg8252468) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252475#msg8252475) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252697#msg8252697) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252875#msg8252875) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252967#msg8252967) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252979#msg8252979) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253200#msg8253200) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253224#msg8253224) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253243#msg8253243) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253265#msg8253265) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253274#msg8253274) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253282#msg8253282) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253291#msg8253291) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253292#msg8253292) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253297#msg8253297) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253302#msg8253302) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253335#msg8253335) Last post was 1 hour ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251304#msg8251304) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251796#msg8251796) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251802#msg8251802) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251857#msg8251857) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252247#msg8252247) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252250#msg8252250) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252299#msg8252299) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252307#msg8252307) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252323#msg8252323) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252366#msg8252366) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252599#msg8252599) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252640#msg8252640) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252793#msg8252793) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252831#msg8252831) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253030#msg8253030) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253034#msg8253034) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253141#msg8253141) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253246#msg8253246) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253257#msg8253257) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253269#msg8253269) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253286#msg8253286) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253304#msg8253304) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253386#msg8253386) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253406#msg8253406) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251279#msg8251279) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252136#msg8252136) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252150#msg8252150) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252348#msg8252348) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252474#msg8252474) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252511#msg8252511) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252515#msg8252515) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252524#msg8252524) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252526#msg8252526) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252546#msg8252546) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252729#msg8252729) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252738#msg8252738) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252971#msg8252971) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253005#msg8253005) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253220#msg8253220) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253227#msg8253227) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253235#msg8253235) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253253#msg8253253) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253270#msg8253270) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253279#msg8253279) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253289#msg8253289) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253298#msg8253298) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253325#msg8253325) Last post was 1 hour ago.
juicebox - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251276#msg8251276) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251570#msg8251570) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251976#msg8251976) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252206#msg8252206) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252237#msg8252237) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252372#msg8252372) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252497#msg8252497) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252612#msg8252612) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252613#msg8252613) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252856#msg8252856) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252859#msg8252859) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252861#msg8252861) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253140#msg8253140) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253337#msg8253337) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:25:38 pm
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Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251211#msg8251211) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252130#msg8252130) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252132#msg8252132) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252135#msg8252135) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252432#msg8252432) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252927#msg8252927) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252929#msg8252929) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252933#msg8252933) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252935#msg8252935) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252936#msg8252936) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252951#msg8252951) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252959#msg8252959) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253369#msg8253369) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253370#msg8253370) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253377#msg8253377) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253394#msg8253394) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253395#msg8253395) Last post was less than an hour ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251310#msg8251310) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251816#msg8251816) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252258#msg8252258) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252263#msg8252263) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252381#msg8252381) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252425#msg8252425) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252450#msg8252450) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252539#msg8252539) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252545#msg8252545) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252547#msg8252547) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252648#msg8252648) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252653#msg8252653) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252702#msg8252702) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252707#msg8252707) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252713#msg8252713) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253085#msg8253085) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253092#msg8253092) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253134#msg8253134) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253143#msg8253143) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253152#msg8253152) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253154#msg8253154) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253172#msg8253172) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253182#msg8253182) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253191#msg8253191) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253192#msg8253192) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253197#msg8253197) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253226#msg8253226) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253277#msg8253277) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253280#msg8253280) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253283#msg8253283) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253287#msg8253287) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253295#msg8253295) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253303#msg8253303) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253307#msg8253307) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253308#msg8253308) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253311#msg8253311) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253323#msg8253323) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253327#msg8253327) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253347#msg8253347) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253360#msg8253360) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253363#msg8253363) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253365#msg8253365) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253390#msg8253390) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253400#msg8253400) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253409#msg8253409) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Persus13 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251619#msg8251619) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251812#msg8251812) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252745#msg8252745) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252769#msg8252769) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253139#msg8253139) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253145#msg8253145) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253148#msg8253148) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253155#msg8253155) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253156#msg8253156) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253176#msg8253176) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253177#msg8253177) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253204#msg8253204) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253399#msg8253399) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253411#msg8253411) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253412#msg8253412) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Toaster - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251275#msg8251275) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251421#msg8251421) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251434#msg8251434) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251805#msg8251805) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251837#msg8251837) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251900#msg8251900) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251924#msg8251924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251929#msg8251929) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252292#msg8252292) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252499#msg8252499) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252510#msg8252510) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252513#msg8252513) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252517#msg8252517) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252522#msg8252522) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252789#msg8252789) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253171#msg8253171) Last post was 6 hours ago.
ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251184#msg8251184) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251406#msg8251406) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251429#msg8251429) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251452#msg8251452) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251593#msg8251593) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251788#msg8251788) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251808#msg8251808) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251810#msg8251810) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251902#msg8251902) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251907#msg8251907) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251915#msg8251915) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251925#msg8251925) 13 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(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253288#msg8253288) 62 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253293#msg8253293) 63 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253306#msg8253306) 64 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253331#msg8253331) 65 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253343#msg8253343) 66 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253348#msg8253348) 67 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253372#msg8253372) 68 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253383#msg8253383) 69 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253387#msg8253387) 70 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253404#msg8253404) 71 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253416#msg8253416) Last post was less than an hour ago.
TricMagic - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251170#msg8251170) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251569#msg8251569) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251807#msg8251807) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251822#msg8251822) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251826#msg8251826) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251846#msg8251846) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251869#msg8251869) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251956#msg8251956) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252074#msg8252074) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252270#msg8252270) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252273#msg8252273) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252280#msg8252280) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252289#msg8252289) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252291#msg8252291) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252301#msg8252301) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252318#msg8252318) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252384#msg8252384) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252391#msg8252391) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252621#msg8252621) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252638#msg8252638) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252647#msg8252647) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252655#msg8252655) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252656#msg8252656) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252660#msg8252660) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252665#msg8252665) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252682#msg8252682) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252689#msg8252689) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252696#msg8252696) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252735#msg8252735) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252753#msg8252753) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253113#msg8253113) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253125#msg8253125) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253136#msg8253136) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253163#msg8253163) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253179#msg8253179) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253184#msg8253184) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253187#msg8253187) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253195#msg8253195) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253207#msg8253207) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253212#msg8253212) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253272#msg8253272) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253333#msg8253333) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253341#msg8253341) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253356#msg8253356) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253376#msg8253376) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253384#msg8253384) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253393#msg8253393) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Vector - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251167#msg8251167) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251368#msg8251368) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251529#msg8251529) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251617#msg8251617) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251853#msg8251853) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251854#msg8251854) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251887#msg8251887) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251891#msg8251891) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251897#msg8251897) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251941#msg8251941) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251982#msg8251982) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251983#msg8251983) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251999#msg8251999) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252096#msg8252096) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252139#msg8252139) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252350#msg8252350) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252351#msg8252351) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252352#msg8252352) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252377#msg8252377) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252525#msg8252525) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252535#msg8252535) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252543#msg8252543) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252568#msg8252568) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252676#msg8252676) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252732#msg8252732) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252741#msg8252741) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252764#msg8252764) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252869#msg8252869) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252926#msg8252926) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252932#msg8252932) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252934#msg8252934) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252960#msg8252960) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252962#msg8252962) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252969#msg8252969) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252977#msg8252977) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252984#msg8252984) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252986#msg8252986) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253178#msg8253178) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253183#msg8253183) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253196#msg8253196) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253202#msg8253202) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253210#msg8253210) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253230#msg8253230) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253252#msg8253252) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253254#msg8253254) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253264#msg8253264) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253273#msg8253273) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253276#msg8253276) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253301#msg8253301) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253359#msg8253359) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253397#msg8253397) Last post was less than an hour ago.
webadict - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251165#msg8251165) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251485#msg8251485) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251490#msg8251490) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251547#msg8251547) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251787#msg8251787) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251789#msg8251789) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251803#msg8251803) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251814#msg8251814) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251835#msg8251835) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251878#msg8251878) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251917#msg8251917) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251975#msg8251975) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251991#msg8251991) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252004#msg8252004) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252057#msg8252057) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252129#msg8252129) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252145#msg8252145) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252243#msg8252243) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252316#msg8252316) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252374#msg8252374) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252417#msg8252417) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252419#msg8252419) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252440#msg8252440) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252441#msg8252441) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252529#msg8252529) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252537#msg8252537) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252538#msg8252538) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252679#msg8252679) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252686#msg8252686) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252898#msg8252898) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252943#msg8252943) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252954#msg8252954) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252961#msg8252961) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252974#msg8252974) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252980#msg8252980) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252981#msg8252981) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252982#msg8252982) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252995#msg8252995) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253146#msg8253146) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253232#msg8253232) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253234#msg8253234) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253238#msg8253238) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253262#msg8253262) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253267#msg8253267) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253367#msg8253367) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253371#msg8253371) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253379#msg8253379) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253388#msg8253388) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253392#msg8253392) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253396#msg8253396) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253403#msg8253403) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253415#msg8253415) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Post by: Mephansteras on February 26, 2021, 07:26:48 pm
BluarianKnight: 7: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, notquitethere, Toaster, Vector, webadict
juicebox: 1: TricMagic
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
Day ends in ~30 Minutes
Does that work better for you on mobile, Web?
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:27:30 pm
The Scribe's Tally SheetIt's beautiful, thank you.
BluarianKnight: 7: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, notquitethere, Toaster, Vector, webadict
juicebox: 1: TricMagic
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
Day ends in ~30 Minutes
Does that work better for you on mobile, Web?
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:29:54 pm
I think you answered your question.What purpose does the "you know what you should do" serve? Town!Lucky certainly wouldn't revive a mafioso even without your comment, and scum!Lucky would have no reason to listen to town!you.
Lucky's choices:
1. If mafia, probably want to res no matter what.
2. If town, decide whether to res on N1 (mafia is a no-go, town...it's up to them, isn't it?).
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:30:08 pm
Everyone, We've squeezed two claims from Blu and Lucky, we know what both are going to do at night. Let's lynch someone the scum team aren't prepared for. Look at scumjuice's posts in the lurker tracker. See my last post about him. He's Not Town!
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:30:21 pm
Toaster, Juicebox, Luckyowl scum? I'm willing to slot Juice there above NQT.
Vector, Web, and Jim...I don't know.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:31:11 pm
I don't like this Blue lynch.I was literally just about to propose a juicebox elimination. Tell me that juicebox is Town based on their posts. It takes 2 minutes to read them.
Toaster, Juicebox, Luckyowl scum? I'm willing to slot Juice there above NQT.
Vector, Web, and Jim...I don't know.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:32:19 pm
You're not looking at it right. I'm telling Lucky it's up to him whether they choose to res or not tonight, do you get it?I think you answered your question.What purpose does the "you know what you should do" serve? Town!Lucky certainly wouldn't revive a mafioso even without your comment, and scum!Lucky would have no reason to listen to town!you.
Lucky's choices:
1. If mafia, probably want to res no matter what.
2. If town, decide whether to res on N1 (mafia is a no-go, town...it's up to them, isn't it?).
30 minutes to go... so Juicebox!Urrrghh......I really want to lynch Lucky......
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:34:13 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:34:46 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:36:18 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:36:57 pm
You're not looking at it right. I'm telling Lucky it's up to him whether they choose to res or not tonight, do you get it?No, I don't get it.
Sure, let's see where a few votes on juicebox lead us.
Look at it this way Toony: if we lynch a scum player, a scum!Lucky can't res him without dooming them both. Juice is a great pick for it.The issue is that if juice is town and then gets revived, we know neither their nor Lucky's alignment.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:37:04 pm
- Joke vote on someone they read as null in the same post
- Jump on the Secret wagon in the most inauthentic way possible
- Jump on the Blu wagon after scanning the thread and missing half of it.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 07:39:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:41:00 pm
Cool. Glad I'm telling Lucky and not you.You're not looking at it right. I'm telling Lucky it's up to him whether they choose to res or not tonight, do you get it?No, I don't get it.
All I'm seeing is a number of players not wanting to lynch Lucky, first Blue now Juice.
Post by: juicebox on February 26, 2021, 07:41:20 pm
I'm just gonna go ahead and claim now. I'm a town dreamwalker, specifically I can see a random player's night role PM.
The main reason I misread was due to me skimming the thread due to the fact that I only really skimmed the thread, since I only had a few minutes until my shift started and there was quite a lot for me to go through.
Blue's claim did happen to catch my eye though for obvious reasons
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:43:41 pm
PFPTwo Dreamwalkers? I don't believe that.
I'm just gonna go ahead and claim now. I'm a town dreamwalker, specifically I can see a random player's night role PM.
The main reason I misread was due to me skimming the thread due to the fact that I only really skimmed the thread, since I only had a few minutes until my shift started and there was quite a lot for me to go through.
Blue's claim did happen to catch my eye though for obvious reasons
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:44:07 pm
1. Shit we can't let Lucky get lynched, pile on Blue!
2. Shit we can't let Blue get lynched, pile on Juice!
NQT why did you redirect the bandwagon twice? Normally you only like to have it move once?
PPE:
I'm just gonna go ahead and claim now. I'm a town dreamwalker, specifically I can see a random player's night role PM.Hmmm...
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 07:45:47 pm
NQT why did you redirect the bandwagon twice? Normally you only like to have it move once?
Two Dreamwalkers? I don't believe that.
Everything about this is weird to me.
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 07:46:34 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:46:43 pm
I was just reading back through Juice's post history and noticed these two posts.
I think 4mask's claim is a bit more dubious however, especially when you consider the possibility of a 4mask Toaster scumteam.
I say 4mask and Toaster together because of this:I don't believe there's ever been a Jester no.If it's helpful, my role is wererat.
There have been survivors though. Toaster got ressed as one after dying, I believe you had an ability too no?I got ressed into Lone Vampire; I had a block that killed if I used it two nights in a row on the same target. 3 and 5 started with a Wererat; a survivor with no abilities. PPE yes, that one.
It just feels little bit too convenient to me how this happened.
This is a genuinely interesting, if out of the box and not especially realistic take.
Of course, the next time he mentions me he has this to say.
4mask is lock Third Party for me ofc
Which kinda undercuts any town points I wanted to give him for that.
Everything else is pretty ??? and the fact that he RVS voted NQT halfway through D1 is eyebrow raising.
PPE:
Oh for...
I'd say I need to chew on that claim for a bit but I don't have time for that. All I can say for now is that other than voting Blue (but providing no reasons that hint at a counterclaim) Juice gave no hints that they were a dreamwalker prior to their claim. And also that it is, theoretically, possible to have two of the same role on the town's side, it happened with Sexton's in Supernatural 8.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:47:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:49:08 pm
It's completely possible.PFPTwo Dreamwalkers? I don't believe that.
I'm just gonna go ahead and claim now. I'm a town dreamwalker, specifically I can see a random player's night role PM.
The main reason I misread was due to me skimming the thread due to the fact that I only really skimmed the thread, since I only had a few minutes until my shift started and there was quite a lot for me to go through.
Blue's claim did happen to catch my eye though for obvious reasons
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:49:42 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:50:12 pm
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:50:15 pm
Jim Groovester 95% Town: Jim Groovester should be lockTown. I'll need to reread their reads tonight for things I'm probably missing. Also, they tend to say things better than I do with less words.
ToonyMan 90% Town: ToonyMan is super Townlean, but I (not so) secretly dislike their push on Luckyowl. Even if Luckyowl flips scum, I actually think it gives ToonyMan scum equity, and if Luckyowl flips town, that's major point loss.
Vector 72.5% Town: Vector gets to stand in the Townlean parts, but only because I know if they're up here, scum is more likely to NK them. I've been liking their mini-content today, and I generally trust 4maskwolf to not be making incorrect assessments. If I die tonight, go hard on Vector because they did it.
4maskwolf... 0% Town?: Give 4maskwolf a lot of credit. They're fairly active and I believe they're forwarding cases that need forwarding. Might be a Survivor, but is looking out for Town.
TricMagic 70% Town: TricMagic never jumped on the Luckyowl bandwagon, and I think that should give them more Town equity because it's very consistent with their reads. Sticking to their guns. Being stupidly scummy for no reason at all. Call it a Townread, baby.
Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive. For the most part, Luckyowl has been consistent with who they're top pick (ToonyMan), and they have a legitimate reason to be going after them. Their plan feels consistent with their play, and I'm willing to believe their mistake is that they need to confirm players instead of simply finding scum. Additionally, I don't want to be potentially converted and then suspected the whole time. I'm gonna move them back up to Townlean.
IcyTea31 55% Town: Technically agree with IcyTea31's posts.
NQT 100% Null: nullreading this one to the bank because while I think their net is impressive, it hasn't caught enough fish for me, but they're setting up for a D2 push on juicebox. I am okay with waiting on this one. Technically, I'm scumleaning them, but I do like that they've been pushing juicebox.
Toaster 60% Scum: Toaster provided a decent readslist. I'll move them a little closer to null, but I don't believe it makes up for not Townreading Jim, even if they're trying to butter me up by making me a Townread. If Blue flips scum, mark Toaster as Town. No joke.
Persus13 67.5% Scum: Not a fan of their work so far, but they were busy, so I'll hope for something good on D2.
BluarianKnight 70% Scum: BluarianKnight has fallen from grace, but I think now's the time to start moving. Well, looks like Blue is up for elimination today instead of Luckyowl. If Bluarian flips scum, that should 100% clear Toaster.
juicebox 80% Scum: juicebox has been lurking. Downgraded to scumread. They've contributed nothing to the conversation, and what they have contributed has not pushed forward a case. Seriously, give them a read right now if I get this out fast enough.
Did I forget anyone? Sorry, I was trying to move fast. If I die, look at Vector. Trust Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, and 4maskwolf to lead Town to victory.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:50:26 pm
Juice wagon saw pushback from Vector and and Toony. Thanks for the CFD.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:50:55 pm
Also can we get a mamobo votecount?ToonyMan post is wrong, but yes.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 07:51:09 pm
CFD meaning? /and I've been a bit sus of NQT for a while. We can always go back to the original lynch of Secretdorf/Persus. But juice is way too chill.Can we CFD onto notquitethere please?
Post by: Mamobo on February 26, 2021, 07:52:14 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 5 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253273#msg8253273), Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253395#msg8253395), Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818), juicebox* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253337#msg8253337), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253253#msg8253253),
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
juicebox - 4 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253425#msg8253425), TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253341#msg8253341), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253430#msg8253430), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253423#msg8253423),
Luckyowl - 2 - BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253291#msg8253291), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253449#msg8253449),
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Toaster - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253155#msg8253155),
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 1 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252866#msg8252866),
Day ends on February 26, 2021 at 19:00 CST (0 hours and 7 minutes remaining.)
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:52:21 pm
NQT why did you redirect the bandwagon twice? Normally you only like to have it move once?First I was conflicted about Lucky and saw it was close enough to switch things over to Blu, who I was more ambivalent about especially after their weird towel throw. But I always wanted Juice to go down, so I thought I'd see if there could be a push for it. And strangely enough there was.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:52:59 pm
Chinese Fire Drill, switching wagons onto an outside candidate at the last minute.CFD meaning? /and I've been a bit sus of NQT for a while. We can always go back to the original lynch of Secretdorf/Persus. But juice is way too chill.Can we CFD onto notquitethere please?
Prety much what we just did to Juice.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:53:33 pm
I hate this stupid goddamn shit. It makes every player claim before Night 1 even starts.Yeah, but it's telling that juice didn't participate much in EoD before they were under the gun. It's jumpy to claim a passive role before there's no actions to claim.
Knight and two dreamwalkers makes a setup with lots of passive roles, if all true.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:54:02 pm
BluarianKnight - 5 - Vector*, Luckyowl*, Toaster*, juicebox*, Jim Groovester*,
juicebox - 4 - webadict*, TricMagic*, 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
Luckyowl - 3 - BluarianKnight*, IcyTea31*, Toony
Toaster - 1 - Persus13*,
Dunno where Persus is. But it's back to a Blu lynch.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:54:43 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 07:55:12 pm
Vector 72.5% Town: Vector gets to stand in the Townlean parts, but only because I know if they're up here, scum is more likely to NK them.
wow thx love u too web
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:55:30 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:55:45 pm
Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 07:56:13 pm
True votes then are currently:
BluarianKnight - 5 - Vector*, Luckyowl*, Toaster*, juicebox*, Jim Groovester*,
juicebox - 4 - webadict*, TricMagic*, 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
Luckyowl - 3 - BluarianKnight*, IcyTea31*, Toony
Toaster - 1 - Persus13*,
Dunno where Persus is. But it's back to a Blu lynch.
Unvote to prevent last minute tie.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:56:41 pm
No, it lets us read a revived Townie though.Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
BluarianKnight for tie safety.
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 07:56:57 pm
No, it lets us read a revived Townie though.Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
BluarianKnight for tie safety.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:57:08 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2021, 07:57:26 pm
I mean between juice and blue.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:57:46 pm
Vector feels weird during this EoD...don't have time to do anything else.
Post by: webadict on February 26, 2021, 07:58:02 pm
Samesies.Vector 72.5% Town: Vector gets to stand in the Townlean parts, but only because I know if they're up here, scum is more likely to NK them.
wow thx love u too web
CFD is in effect.... Oh, juicebox. My bad, didn't recognize.No, it lets us read a revived Townie though.Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
BluarianKnight for tie safety.
Post by: IcyTea31 on February 26, 2021, 07:58:39 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:58:56 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on February 26, 2021, 07:59:21 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 07:59:29 pm
I hate that I'm okay with all three of these wagons. That's not how D1 ends with a competent scumteam.
I mean, it could be an incompetent town, no?
Post by: TricMagic on February 26, 2021, 07:59:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2021, 07:59:52 pm
Post by: Vector on February 26, 2021, 08:00:50 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on February 26, 2021, 08:03:02 pm
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
juicebox: 3: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, webadict
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
The Count stands up and raises his hands for silence.
"Day ends, and it is time for you to cast your final votes."
Around the circle you go, names being declared. "BluarianKnight!" "Juicebox!" and so on.
In the end, BluarianKnight has the most votes. The Count looks at them with a somber face.
"And now we shall see how good the judgement of your peers is." He raises up the Book, and reads the words within out loud. You hear them, but cannot recall what they are for even a moment after they pass by your ears.
The lights dim.
The band of runes around BluarianKnight's neck blow a bright yellow, so searing that you must look away.
There is a cry of pain, and the lights return.
BluarianKnight lies dead. The runes on their neck have changed to a charred black, and are words instead of runes.
"Loyal Dreamwalker of the Lands" reads out the Count. "Pity. Darkness wins this day, I am afraid. See that it gets no more footholds, or we may all end like that."
"For now, return to your homes. The Trials begin anew with Dawn's light."
Night has fallen. Send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2021, 12:25:12 am
Dawn rises, cold and dim.
Yet the magic of the Trials beckons you back with an unwavering pull.
You return to the tent.
Somewhat to your surprise, everyone else arrives as well.
Even BluarianKnight has somehow managed to return!
The Count seems rather shocked at their appearance, but says nothing about it and simply begins the rites of the day.
The Trial has begun.
Day 2 has begun! It will go until ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 12:32:31 am
Luckyowl: Did you bring back BluarianKnight?
BluarianKnight: Are you still town?
Meph: If a Town Priest that is Pious (or whatever the term for "would res normally" is converted in the night to another team, what would happen to the res target?
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2021, 12:35:11 am
I hate cults.
I hope you're not right but I fear that you are.
I am looking forward to the rehash of Day 1 that Day 2 is going to be.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2021, 12:43:55 am
Meph: If a Town Priest that is Pious (or whatever the term for "would res normally" is converted in the night to another team, what would happen to the res target?
Resurrections happen after Conversions, so they would act like a normal priest for that faction.
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 12:47:44 am
Meph: In the above circumstance, if they were an IMpious priest, would they convert to their team or unleash a third party as in past games?
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2021, 12:50:21 am
Oh good, potential toofer.
Meph: In the above circumstance, if they were an IMpious priest, would they convert to their team or unleash a third party as in past games?
If it goes wrong, it can go wrong in many different ways. But never as intended for the team the priest is on.
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 12:51:28 am
I hate cults.
Are you still town?
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 12:54:55 am
You?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 12:58:32 am
First, I wrote down some notes during Night 1. Thankfully, I am alive so I can post it:
(Warning: Strong Language)
Spoiler: Thoughts during Night 1 (click to show/hide)
Nobody died so I don't need to cross anybody out, although we have Blue back now.
In summary after rereading...
1. I trust Webadict more, so I'm bumping Lucky out of scum for now.
2. I'm seriously suspicious of Juicebox and Vector's play at the end of Day 1.
My gut feeling is that Toaster and Juicebox are scum with a third being between...Lucky/Vector/Persus.
Second, some questions:
Juicebox, can you explain why you were actually reading EoD when you said you would be away? What did you see last night as a Dreamwalker?
Luckyowl, what happened last night? Did you res Blue?
Blue, how was last night? Are you still a Dreamwalker?
I hate cults.A conversion is very possible last night. This kind of situation happened in Supernatural 7.
For reference, in Super7 I thought that Jack AT blocked the kill on Night 1, but what actually happened is that the Dark Magus converted Toaster. Toasted was inspected as town on Night 1, but conversions happen after inspections.
There's a chance the kill was prevent (for example, somebody redirected the kill onto TricMagic). But we would need somebody to claim if they're sure. There's also a chance that Lucky was protected from the kill.
I'm also fine with checking/lynching Lucky today, if Lucky flips town then Blue is either town or third-party right?
PPE:
Oh. Great. Never mind what I just said.Oh good, potential toofer.If it goes wrong, it can go wrong in many different ways. But never as intended for the team the priest is on.
Meph: In the above circumstance, if they were an IMpious priest, would they convert to their team or unleash a third party as in past games?
Vector, I feel like you've been active-lurking. Your posts during the end of Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253264#msg8253264) leave me with a bad taste.I hate cults.Are you still town?
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 01:33:40 am
Yes. Started town, still town.
You?
Indeed, started town, still town.
Toony, I've mentioned multiple times why I thought BK was suspicious, starting way towards the beginning of D1. I agree that Juicebox looks awful but I wasn't going to budge off of a self-voter.
Additionally: you don't like CFDs and you're attacking me for refusing to CFD? Yeah ... sure ... cool ...
It's late here. I'll probably lurk the thread a little but I need to do a reread. And watch another combinatorics lecture.
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 01:52:43 am
I would prefer we pressured juicebox. I'll have more tomorrow.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 01, 2021, 02:15:05 am
A bit lost since infoless nights are hard to work with.
Interesting that as far as I can see, Juicebox has never attended to my attacks against his character. Aside from being relentlessly defended by Jim, what does he have going for him?
I feel like I haven't said much about juicebox so I don't see how anything I've said in his favor could be viewed as relentless.
Jim felt pretty lazy during EoD.
I was playing Stellaris while the deadline was passing, because two hours before the deadline I assumed (incorrectly) that the day would pass quietly with a Luckyowl lynch and I decided to play a video game. I forgot about the thread for two hours and checked it only minutes after the deadline passed.
In BYOR15 I was absolutely lazy but I was also scum. This game I just wasn't around.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 06:23:52 am
Overall, the least suspected players yesterday, in order, were:
Very not lynchable
1. Jim
2. Toony
Not Lynchable
3. Web
4. Vector
Everyone else...
If there was a conversion, the conversion probably happened in this pool. Everyone else is much more lynchable. That all said, we actually want to lynch the converter as a priority. Let's assume the converter is someone moderately suspected from outside this pool:
Toaster - Unknown
IcyTea31 - Unknown
--
juicebox - claimed dreamwalker, let's see if they follow through on a dream
Persus13/Secretdorf - highly unlikely due to lynch composition
notquitethere - not me
TricMagic - mess of fakeclaims but probably not the converter because of it
BluarianKnight - confirmed dreamwalker
Luckyowl - confirmed priest (though I suppose there could be another priest in the scum team that he's claiming over)
4maskwolf - third party
We'll all be kicking ourselves if Toaster is evil in this game again. Why shouldn't we eliminate you, Toast?
(But don't think I haven't forgotten about you Juice, let's hear that report.)
I feel like I haven't said much about juicebox so I don't see how anything I've said in his favor could be viewed as relentless.Maybe "relentless" was too strong, but you did defend him three times so I wasn't imagining that:
Spoiler: Jim on Juice (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 08:05:22 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 08:41:06 am
Since we either don't have a monster hunter or they seem to be holstering, I'm pretty sure we always flip LuckyOwl today. Especially with the threat of a potential double-conversion, we need to flip him to check blue's alignment.I'm cool with this if nobody is going to claim any kills.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 01, 2021, 08:53:20 am
Since we either don't have a monster hunter or they seem to be holstering, I'm pretty sure we always flip LuckyOwl today. Especially with the threat of a potential double-conversion, we need to flip him to check blue's alignment.
You seem so quick to vote me out. 4maskwolf. Blu is has been rez he will speak soon. However I do have some troubling news to speak of. Before I went to Blu's grave I was visited by a voice who tried to convince me to give them my soul exchange for power. They even tried to say it will make me look town...I obvisouly decline the offer as I'm a preist and my role is to fix day 1 fuck ups.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:06:00 am
A devil, eh?Since we either don't have a monster hunter or they seem to be holstering, I'm pretty sure we always flip LuckyOwl today. Especially with the threat of a potential double-conversion, we need to flip him to check blue's alignment.
You seem so quick to vote me out. 4maskwolf. Blu is has been rez he will speak soon. However I do have some troubling news to speak of. Before I went to Blu's grave I was visited by a voice who tried to convince me to give them my soul exchange for power. They even tried to say it will make me look town...I obvisouly decline the offer as I'm a preist and my role is to fix day 1 fuck ups.
Can someone who knows how Devils work tell me whether Lucky revealing that particular devil offer is outing or not?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 09:06:33 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:11:23 am
Today we'd be looking at 7 v 5 v 2. Devil always townsides in this situation so it's 8 v 5 v 1. That puts us in MYLO, because if we mislynch town today + nightkill from scumteam we'd be looking at 6 v 5 v 1, at which point one of the wolves (presumably Lucky or Blue, in this scenario) would out and say that I have to vote with them or else. At which point it's just GG for town because 6 v 6 forces a no lynch and the wolves kill town to win afterwards.
And yes, that scenario is far from guaranteed. The wolf kill could have been blocked last night, a charistmatic cult could have converted someone not-Lucky, or we could be looking at a Dark Magus where even a double-convert doesn't put us in immediate jeopardy. But the way I see it the possibility of a Charismatic double-convert is too dangerous to not check for.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:12:17 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 09:12:50 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:16:32 am
Devils can only offer certain oneshots I believe but they can say whatever they want to the player. I can't confirm if it's outing or not.Okay I just read the devil PM in supernatural 9 and while I'm not sure which of the abilities they would have offered to Lucky it still tells us something. The devil is probably someone who thought Lucky was a wolf by EoD yesterday (though they could have said that to throw people off) because of the way they phrased their offer.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:17:24 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 09:18:53 am
Can third parties be converted? In some games they can in some they can't, and I'm not sure what the rules are for Supernatural since I've never seen an attempt.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 01, 2021, 10:17:12 am
Blue, how was last night? Are you still a Dreamwalker?I'm pretty sure Lucky revived me - the flavor-text I got didn't state directly.
I'm no longer a dream-walker.
BluarianKnight: Are you still town?
No. I'm now a survivor role, Lone Vampire.
I don't think Lucky was scum during revival - but I'm not sure how scum-revivals work when you fuck it up.
My vote's on juicebox. I'd like to see his dreamwalker claim go through - I think it's bullshit.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 01, 2021, 10:18:16 am
Blue, how was last night? Are you still a Dreamwalker?
I'm pretty sure Lucky revived me - the flavor-text I got didn't state directly.
I'm no longer a dream-walker.BluarianKnight: Are you still town?No. I'm now a survivor role, Lone Vampire.
I don't think Lucky was scum during revival - but I'm not sure how scum-revivals work when you fuck it up.
My vote's on juicebox. I'd like to see his dreamwalker claim go through - I think it's bullshit.
Fixed my previous message.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 10:33:49 am
Either way, it's almost good news, as a lone vampire can act in a pro-town way by blocking who they think is scum.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 10:38:54 am
- There is a devil and we now have 3 third parties, a 3-person scum team with a new convert i.e. 7/13 players in the game
- As above, but scum team is dark magus: 5/13 players in the game, or two-person team: 6/13.
- Lucky is lying, is on the scum team, and is just seeding chaos.
- 4mask is the devil and so 4-6 non-town player.
I'll have to take a look at the old setups to see what would be normal numbers here...
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 10:44:30 am
I'm inclined to believe the lone vampire claim but the way Lucky came into the thread "Blue will be here soon enough" makes me nervous there's a fakeclaim being set up.
If Lucky is a wolf, Blue could well have been converted to a wolf. If Lucky is town, Blue is probably either telling the truth. I suppose we'll have to see how kills tonight shake out.;
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 10:51:26 am
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 11:04:04 am
Since we either don't have a monster hunter or they seem to be holstering, I'm pretty sure we always flip LuckyOwl today. Especially with the threat of a potential double-conversion, we need to flip him to check blue's alignment.Utterly ignores the survivor.
Juicebox is a decent lynch. Lurking is anti-town, not following through on promises is anti-town. And as a dreamer they would have to see another's dream. Let's see what it is.
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 11:07:38 am
I seem to have missed a tag somehow.Since we either don't have a monster hunter or they seem to be holstering, I'm pretty sure we always flip LuckyOwl today. Especially with the threat of a potential double-conversion, we need to flip him to check blue's alignment.Utterly ignores the survivor.
Juicebox is a decent lynch. Lurking is anti-town, not following through on promises is anti-town. And as a dreamer they would have to see another's dream. Let's see what it is.
Of note, I received no sort of PM last night. Either from fighting off a kill, or deals.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 11:13:18 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 11:18:06 am
Absolutely no reason scum wouldn't convert Luckyowl if they weren't already scum in the first place. Would also reasonably clear Blue as a Lone Vampire.
Still want to hear from Juice though.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 11:19:23 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 11:22:46 am
Wait, converts are before resurrections so it has to be a convert that let's them keep their ability.Which tells us that if there's a vampire cult they didn't convert lucky last night. Looks like charismatic cults and dark magus you keep your abilities.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 11:25:45 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 11:33:48 am
We know Lucky Owl isn't the converter... it's absolutely not a priority to kill him today. That Toony of all people hasn't grasped that is a tick in the Toony Was Converted box.The concern is that Lucky became a de-facto converter due to being converted during his resurrection.
Also it looks like I was mistaken, vampires are full cults that allow people to keep their role, so it looks like all cult types allow people to keep their role?
Looking for the converter only makes sense if there's a vampire cult due to the vampire cult seeming to be a true cult, the other two are one-shots and the converter is either the least important wolf (cultist) or has a revive anyway (dark magus).
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 11:41:35 am
We know Lucky Owl isn't the converter... it's absolutely not a priority to kill him today. That Toony of all people hasn't grasped that is a tick in the Toony Was Converted box.Are you saying this is a Vampire Cult then? I thought vampire slaves didn't keep their roles.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 11:48:45 am
Also it looks like I was mistaken, vampires are full cults that allow people to keep their role, so it looks like all cult types allow people to keep their role?
Are you saying this is a Vampire Cult then? I thought vampire slaves didn't keep their roles.It was my mistake too. I thought because of the wording of the vampire lord power that he would literally create vampire slaves, but looking at the actual night actions, the converted vampire players still keep their roles.
Spoiler: Source of my confusion (click to show/hide)
But if there's a lone vampire, I don't think we'd have a vampire cult at all. And I had also forgotten that the charismatic is a one-shot:
Quote
Tiruin - You are a Charismatic Cultist, and the one who drew the others into your confidence. You who dusted off the ancient tomes, and spoke the forgotten truths of your faith. Once during the game you may choose to attempt to convert the target rather than sacrifice them. Note that you must be the one to approach them for this to work. With the ancient power behind you, there are few who could possibly resist such an offer.
So... ignore my earlier reservations and suspicions! They were utterly unfounded!
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2021, 12:24:04 pm
I don't know what to make of day end, but I'm not happy that everyone seems to be focusing on Juice and Lucky again. Juice could be the Leader, but if they are a Dreamwalker they got some info last night and we need to know what it is ASAP.
I'd love to hear what IcyTea's thoughts on the end of D1 and D2 so far because you seemed to be pretty out of it after parking your vote on LuckyOwl. I'm used to you having more/longer posts and being more of a day game leader, but a lot of your posts are reactionary or don't have followup and are pretty short.
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 01:28:50 pm
NQT could just be setting up to vote you off despite your towny-ness.We know Lucky Owl isn't the converter... it's absolutely not a priority to kill him today. That Toony of all people hasn't grasped that is a tick in the Toony Was Converted box.Are you saying this is a Vampire Cult then? I thought vampire slaves didn't keep their roles.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 01:33:47 pm
And anyway, not to mention the big reveal of there apparently being a devil in town. Either
- There is a devil and we now have 3 third parties, a 3-person scum team with a new convert i.e. 7/13 players in the game
- As above, but scum team is dark magus: 5/13 players in the game, or two-person team: 6/13.
- Lucky is lying, is on the scum team, and is just seeding chaos.
- 4mask is the devil and so 4-6 non-town player.
I'll have to take a look at the old setups to see what would be normal numbers here...
I looked at the previous setups:
Spoiler: Previous Compositions (click to show/hide)
- While more can be created in-player, there has never been a game started with more than 2 third parties.
- The maximum number of non-town players for 13 players is 5.
- If we assume all claims are true: 4mask is a wererat and we have a devil and a revived lone vampire, then we most likely have a one-shot charismatic cult team and the killing will begin from the scum team on N2.
All to say, we should be very suspicious of existing claims if there are more than one deaths in the night on N2.
Tric
NQT could just be setting up to vote you off despite your towny-ness.I think there's at least a 25% chance Toony was converted, yes. Do you deny that possibility?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 01:37:19 pm
Otherwise pretty spot on in terms of analysis.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 01:41:16 pm
Spoiler: Fixed Composition (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2021, 02:00:11 pm
4maskwolf: 1: Luckyowl
IcyTea31: 1: Persus13
juicebox: 2: BluarianKnight, TricMagic
Luckyowl: 2: 4maskwolf, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: notquitethere
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Juicebox has requested a replacement. I've reached out to Heydude6 about it.
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 02:23:21 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 02:23:41 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2021, 02:51:46 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 02:59:56 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 03:04:33 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 03:08:54 pm
It very much sounds like you're just pissed an easy ML on a lurker might slip through your fingers.
Considering that the last time I heard someone complaining like that it was a wolf bitching about it in deadchat.
Post by: TricMagic on March 01, 2021, 03:12:27 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 03:14:34 pm
Persus still hasn't really given anything useful, and he was the last replacement. Is anyone thinking on pushing him, or going for the luckyowl policy lynch? It's impossible to actually decipher things as town when the ones you can really push either don't give anything or disappear. I am half tempted to just come back on day 3 given day 2 is likely to be a repeat of day 1 but with a luckyowl lynch on the table.LuckyOwl isn't a policy lynch, it's a very pragmatic one: flipping him town gives us a guaranteed (or at least I assume it's guaranteed, I don't think I've ever seen a town priest revive someone as mafia) not-mafia player in Blue and flipping him wolf tells us what wolf team we're up against and gives us another probable non-town (and likely scum) in blue again. It gives us a ton of information and in the worst case scenario it's also basically necessary for the town to have a chance of winning.
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 03:28:10 pm
Persus still hasn't really given anything useful, and he was the last replacement. Is anyone thinking on pushing him, or going for the luckyowl policy lynch? It's impossible to actually decipher things as town when the ones you can really push either don't give anything or disappear. I am half tempted to just come back on day 3 given day 2 is likely to be a repeat of day 1 but with a luckyowl lynch on the table.
Pardon my language, but fuck off
2. NotQuiteThere, who do you think the original converter was?
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2021, 03:45:45 pm
Perhaps, but you still haven't really provided anything. It makes lynching them frustrating when they switch like that. The new person will be playing, and the old data must be ignored. Headache-inducing for me.
Persus still hasn't really given anything useful, and he was the last replacement. Is anyone thinking on pushing him, or going for the luckyowl policy lynch? It's impossible to actually decipher things as town when the ones you can really push either don't give anything or disappear. I am half tempted to just come back on day 3 given day 2 is likely to be a repeat of day 1 but with a luckyowl lynch on the table.There are 13 players in this game. You seem to think there are three of them and you. Interact with more people. Also its amusing to be told by you that I've done nothing when as far as I can tell you've done nothing except confuse people and you've done absolutely nothing as I recall to interact with me.
Also you don't by any stretch have to throw out what the previous player in that slot did, it's absolutely valid (if slightly annoying to be on the receiving end of) to have part of your read on a slot based on its previous holder.All of this.
It very much sounds like you're just pissed an easy ML on a lurker might slip through your fingers.
Considering that the last time I heard someone complaining like that it was a wolf bitching about it in deadchat.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 01, 2021, 03:55:00 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 05:02:12 pm
2. NotQuiteThere, who do you think the original converter was?If I had to shoot a converter right now, I'd pick Toaster. He's in the suspicious pool and has no claims. Killing the converter specifically is not as pressing if there's a charismatic cult. Shooting Lucky would be a step towards finding out, but I'd rather hit someone we don't know anything about to maximise chance of hitting scum. Who do you favour for today?
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 05:05:35 pm
NQT:
If there was a conversion, the conversion probably happened in this pool. Everyone else is much more lynchable. That all said, we actually want to lynch the converter as a priority. Let's assume the converter is someone moderately suspected from outside this pool:
Toaster - Unknown
IcyTea31 - Unknown
--
juicebox - claimed dreamwalker, let's see if they follow through on a dream
Persus13/Secretdorf - highly unlikely due to lynch composition
notquitethere - not me
TricMagic - mess of fakeclaims but probably not the converter because of it
BluarianKnight - confirmed dreamwalker
Luckyowl - confirmed priest (though I suppose there could be another priest in the scum team that he's claiming over)
4maskwolf - third party
We'll all be kicking ourselves if Toaster is evil in this game again. Why shouldn't we eliminate you, Toast?
Why should you eliminate me? You're not actually providing any evidence. We're on the same page when it comes to prioritizing the converter, but we can't just point fingers and accuse with no reasoning behind it.
Also, see underlined bit above; could you elaborate on that, please?
4mask:
TBH if I was the devil I'd claim, it's a pretty annoying role to try and win with, is only marginally different from a survivor in terms of "should it die", and needs to townside here anyway in case there's a conversion gimmick going on because they need to keep the game going.
I wouldn't even be mad if you were the devil. You're my top pick for it but I'd rather see a survivor go than a devil; devil can be worked around more easily. If you claimed it, I wouldn't care.
But yeah, we need to find the converter*. Let's quickly review who it can and can't be:
100% Not Converter:
BluarianKnight. Died and flipped.
Almost Certainly Not Converter:
Luckyowl. Claimed Priest, the res of BK, and hasn't been counterclaimed.
Unlikely Converter:
4maskwolf. Claimed Survivor in first post; extremely audacious claim from a converter.
TricMagic. Softclaimed no abilities in first post, later evolved to strongly implied Werebear.
Less Likely Converter:
Juicebox. Claimed Dreamwalker, something that is not easy to keep fakeclaiming.
Everyone Else:
webadict
Vector
ToonyMan
Persus13
Jim Groovester
IcyTea31
notquitethere
I'm not the converter, for completion. Someone is a Devil.
Have I missed anything? Obviously I need to dig in to the "everyone else" column; that will come later.
Devil: Do you want to claim? It'd eliminate you as a converter and frankly the town has bigger issues than you.
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 05:09:40 pm
*Yes, maybe something else happened and a kill was blocked or foiled or something. Until I see evidence of that (no, not asking for claims) I'm going to assume the worse; a conversion scum team.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 05:13:10 pm
One: two of the cult-types (charismatic cult and dark magus) are one-shot converts, therefore finding the converter is essentially a moot point at this point (at least as far as stopping conversions go). The third, vampires, which are a true cult and thus a worthwhile converter to find... This is probably a little angly, but I don't think we're looking at one just from a "evolving Bay12 meta" perspective. Full cults are really obnoxious to play into; full cults that keep the roles of people they convert are absolutely brutal. And, largely, over the years full cults have fallen out of favor and have been replaced by one-shot conversions for games that want to keep a bit of a cult flavor or give the wolves a little extra power. I'm pretty sure that a full cult hasn't been seen in supernatural since Supernatural 4 for a reason, and that Meph's experiments with the charismatic cult and dark magus were in part ways to try and work around the fundamental issues of a proper cult.
Personally, I'd argue that it's more likely the kill got blocked in some way last night than that we have an old-school vampire cult on our hands.
Two: Tricmagic has claimed knight, though whether you believe that claim or still think he's a softing werebear is up to you. Regardless, knight is a not-terrible fakeclaim for a converter because it discourages SK kills and doesn't have any difficult fake claims to keep up and I'd argue he belongs one level lower on the "who's the converter" scale.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 05:20:33 pm
Toaster, I explained about the lynch composition thing on D1. Secret was the default lynch candidate for too long on D1, so I think it very unlikely he's on a scum team. Same reasoning I had about Toony in BYOR15.
--
ICT, you jumped off the juicewagon on D1 which indirectly led to Blu's death. Was "pushback from Vector and Toony" all the info you wanted to collect? Why not follow through on Juice?
Luckyowl
Juice wagon saw pushback from Vector and and Toony. Thanks for the CFD.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 05:23:13 pm
Supernatural 2 Cult Sexton
Supernatural 3 N/A (two player team)
Supernatural 4 N/A (two player team)
Supernatural 5 Werewolf Knight
Supernatural 6 Charismatic Cultist and Cult Knight
Supernatural 7 N/A (one player team)
Supernatural 8 Cult Leader
Supernatural 9 N/A (two player team)
I made an assertion yesterday that in the standard-style 3-person scumteams Meph always puts a "designated killer" role to carry the NK.
Utterly irrelevant atm but I'm bored and its interesting to know that my observation is accurate.
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 06:07:54 pm
I didn't get anything like enough sleep last night. I'll probably have to wait to post substantively until tomorrow.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 06:14:47 pm
- If I'd bothered doing this yesterday it would have been absolutely categorically clear that Blu was town. He's golden by this measure.
- Either might have been converted, but yesterday Vector and Webadict were most likely town. Their range of targets was wide, the suspicion flowed deep from them.
- Jim and Toony are in the same tier as Lucky and Juice. Really narrow lynch focuses. This doesn't always mean scum, but it often does.
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2021, 06:15:48 pm
And if Blu's actually a Lone Vampire, he can start blocking people as well.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 06:18:28 pm
But yeah, we need to find the converter*. Let's quickly review who it can and can't be:I agree with your list (although I wouldn't be surprised if Tric thought it would be funny to claim VT as a Cult Leader). I think a converter would most likely be one of the following:
webadict
Jim
NQT
IcyTea
Vector
Persus
Toaster
TricMagic
Out of these six I suspect Vector, Persus, and Toaster the most.
I am not a Devil.
As for Night 1 converts I suspect these players the most:
Luckyowl - free twofer
Toaster - for the memes
Webadict - towncore
Jim - towncore
stuffI also don't believe Meph would use full cults again. This is almost certainly a one-shot conversion or the kill didn't go off for some reason.
We either have no Monster Hunter or they're smart enough not to blind fire on Night 1.
@MOD:
Can a town priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as mafia? Can a mafia priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as town?
I don't think either of these cases have ever happened. Either the res succeeds or they come back third-party.
In other words, if Lucky is town then Blue is 100% a Lone Vampire. If Lucky is mafia then Blue is possibly a Lone Vampire.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 06:22:21 pm
I did a bit of classic Unique Targets analysis. I'm not posting the full results until at least D3 (4mask tried to game this metric in a previous game + you guys don't probably read it when I post stuff like this) but what I will say is:Wow scummy. Holding information hostage to stay alive.
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 06:28:00 pm
Anyway, first I think NQT is probably right, though I can't be sure to what degree. Here's what is apparent to me:
I've been looking at some of the previous games for information, and I think I have to fix some of my read information from Yesterday. First, obviously, I can't rely on my Town reads from Yesterday to work reliably Today (and my interaction data is probably useless (except that read on Toaster v. Blue, that's still legit)), but also, I'd like to move ToonyMan down substantially past what I'm giving to Vector and Jim Groovester. Vector's getting a bit of a pass here because I don't think they were converted. ToonyMan is definitely a top contender for being converted because they play scum well, and I've been less impressed by their play Today than Yesterday, but honestly, the only people who have been playing Today are NQT, who I'm still slightly suspicious of, and 4maskwolf, the guy who isn't even Town.
Honestly, it's probably because this feels like Day 1, Part 2, but if that's the way we gotta treat this, fine, I'll start it up. Let's rock, guys.
NQT says highest chance of convert is in me, ToonyMan, Jim, and Vector. I actually agree here, and that's partially why I'm gonna lower ToonyMan's Town equity here. I believe that we need to soft reset our reads from Yesterday until the Day has picked back up. I'm going to shield Vector for now because I just feel that's the wrong convert target.
So, I'd like to propose a Toaster elimination.
PPE: I unironically agree with ToonyMan's list with the obvious caveat that my name swapped with theirs... And probably not Toaster. Also, Luckyowl is out or else they would never have claimed the Devil deal. Call that a Luckyread. If you're gonna go for someone that isn't in the Towncore, I'd have NQT or someone really obscured like Persus13.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2021, 06:31:43 pm
Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Toony
Wow scummy. Holding information hostage to stay alive.Not at all.
1. It's information in the vote record anyone can see.
2. No one else believes in this stuff but me, so who am I holding it hostage from?
3. The information is more useful to me if scum don't know to tailor their actions to what they think I'm looking for. 4mask can confirm this last point, as he's done exactly that before. I want to be able to perform the same analysis on D2, so I'm not sharing what exactly I'm looking for/what I'm including or discluding until another day has passed.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 01, 2021, 06:39:02 pm
4maskwolf: 1: Luckyowl
IcyTea31: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
juicebox: 2: BluarianKnight, TricMagic
Luckyowl: 2: 4maskwolf, ToonyMan
notquitethere: 1: Vector
Toaster: 1: webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
@MOD:
Can a town priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as mafia? Can a mafia priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as town?
Yes to both.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 06:40:13 pm
ToonyI disagree. I just recently saw you pull this card on Day 3 of MVM2. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177886.msg8241874#msg8241874)Wow scummy. Holding information hostage to stay alive.Not at all.
1. It's information in the vote record anyone can see.
2. No one else believes in this stuff but me, so who am I holding it hostage from?
3. The information is more useful to me if scum don't know to tailor their actions to what they think I'm looking for. 4mask can confirm this last point, as he's done exactly that before. I want to be able to perform the same analysis on D2, so I'm not sharing what exactly I'm looking for/what I'm including or discluding until another day has passed.
Welp.@MOD:Yes to both.
Can a town priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as mafia? Can a mafia priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2021, 07:04:41 pm
I did a bit of classic Unique Targets analysis. I'm not posting the full results until at least D3 (4mask tried to game this metric in a previous game + you guys don't probably read it when I post stuff like this)
.I plead the fifth.
3. The information is more useful to me if scum don't know to tailor their actions to what they think I'm looking for. 4mask can confirm this last point, as he's done exactly that before. I want to be able to perform the same analysis on D2, so I'm not sharing what exactly I'm looking for/what I'm including or discluding until another day has passed.
I actually don't know specifically which game you're referring to, but I can believe I did it: screwing with NQT's mech reads for fun and profit sounds like something I'd do.
NQT and 4mask, I'm a bit worried you all are trying too much to outguess Meph here. I do agree that there are possibilities outside of full-blown Vampire Cult.You're talking to two of the most mechanically and pattern-oriented mafia players on Bay12. Of course we're going to read through previous games and try and read into them. And honestly... we're probably right, all things considered. I'll eat my hat if there's a vampire cult or more than two starting third parties in this game.
Of course now that we've brought up these things Meph might screw with them in the future just to mess with us, but still.
Toaster - for the memesIf Toaster didn't start as a wolf I don't think he was converted last night, along with NQT he was on the list of "veterans getting heat" on D1 which makes him an undesirable conversion, very old memes (that only veterans with enough sense not to convert him would really remember) aside.
but honestly, the only people who have been playing Today are... and 4maskwolf, the guy who isn't even Town.-dabs-
The Scribe's Tally Sheet-angry wolf noises-
4maskwolf: 1: Luckyowl
IcyTea31: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
juicebox: 2: BluarianKnight, TricMagic
Luckyowl: 2: 4maskwolf, ToonyMan
notquitethere: 1: Vector
Toaster: 1: webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday@MOD:
Can a town priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as mafia? Can a mafia priest's res fail so hard they bring back a townie as town?
Yes to both.
Persus13
Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 07:13:25 pm
Meph still believes in balance. If there's a 3-man team alive right now, we're basically all screwed. I'm like 90% sure someone was converted last Night, and the other 10% is me being generous. Which means I'm with NQT and 4maskwolf on this one.NQT and 4mask, I'm a bit worried you all are trying too much to outguess Meph here. I do agree that there are possibilities outside of full-blown Vampire Cult.You're talking to two of the most mechanically and pattern-oriented mafia players on Bay12. Of course we're going to read through previous games and try and read into them. And honestly... we're probably right, all things considered. I'll eat my hat if there's a vampire cult or more than two starting third parties in this game.
Of course now that we've brought up these things Meph might screw with them in the future just to mess with us, but still.
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 07:22:37 pm
Web: I'm guessing I'm a bad conversion target because I was heavily sussed yesterday?
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 07:58:46 pm
@NQT: Something like the single-target analysis was what I was waiting for. Unvote.Well, not exactly, but kinda. My thought process is that if someone wanted to convert a Towncore player, you would be on the list at the bottom, which could inevitably put you at the top, but... In a way to not overcomplicate my explanation, I think you being the most suspicious of the top four is too far down, but also not far enough down? You're not Town enough to be Towncore, and also, I figured if I wasn't converted, obviously you're not gonna be converted. I mean, I was third, and everyone knows third is the best.
Web: I'm guessing I'm a bad conversion target because I was heavily sussed yesterday?
Unless you did, in which case, well, I made a bad judgment call, but... eh? Just not feeling it so far. If you'd like, you could just tell me if you got converted, and I promise I'll believe you.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 08:28:54 pm
I would be more surprised I wasn't converted except for the fact that, you know...there's Lucky the Priest around.
If Lucky wasn't converted (so either scum all along or somehow town) then maybe I'm too obvious a pick? I think me and Jim would have been the most obvious, which makes us a reason to avoid (unless Jim is actually scum). To that extent that makes me suspect you, Web, the most as a "smart" convert pick.
Post by: Toaster on March 01, 2021, 08:37:56 pm
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.
Hey, Luckyowl.
You promised you'd be useful D2. It's D2. When is that coming?
(real post coming)
Post by: webadict on March 01, 2021, 09:27:49 pm
You wound me Web.I unfortunately cannot argue against that logic because I'm wont to agree with you, and it's also why I disagree that Vector is the optimal pick. I'm literally the right person to convert and I wasn't converted, and if you skip me and go to Vector, I feel it's just... I dunno. Like, you just never aim for fourth. If you're doing that, you leave all four Townreads unconverted and go for NQT and play the long con while baiting them into arguing with each other about which one's converted.
I would be more surprised I wasn't converted except for the fact that, you know...there's Lucky the Priest around.
If Lucky wasn't converted (so either scum all along or somehow town) then maybe I'm too obvious a pick? I think me and Jim would have been the most obvious, which makes us a reason to avoid (unless Jim is actually scum). To that extent that makes me suspect you, Web, the most as a "smart" convert pick.
The only way you convert Vector is if one of the Towncore is already scum, and that's pushing into the WIFOM territory I just mentioned.
So, like I said, I'm shielding Vector because it's easier than thinking too hard about it.
If you'd like to argue you're too obvious of a pick, I also can't argue against that one either. Which is why we pretty much just need to soft reset our reads list. I'm worried that you didn't soft reset and pushed me higher, which is totally wrong. I mean, if you want to argue I was Town D1, fine, but D1's gone. We're in D2, and we need reads that reflect it. You're gonna have to judge me by Today's standards first and then you should use Yesterday's to reinforce it or show changes.
Regardless, Toaster is suspect for the attack on Blue D1.
I need sleep.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 01, 2021, 10:07:24 pm
If you'd like to argue you're too obvious of a pick, I also can't argue against that one either. Which is why we pretty much just need to soft reset our reads list. I'm worried that you didn't soft reset and pushed me higher, which is totally wrong. I mean, if you want to argue I was Town D1, fine, but D1's gone. We're in D2, and we need reads that reflect it. You're gonna have to judge me by Today's standards first and then you should use Yesterday's to reinforce it or show changes.To be fair, my updated reads were written during Night 1. I'll be reevaluating through the course of Day 2.
Since Juicebox is replacing out I can't really get a response from them...you think they would at least tell us their Night 1 dream.
@TricMagic: Why did you claim Knight on Day 1? You realize that would only help scum?
@Blue: Don't kill anybody by targeting them twice in a row. Don't tell us who you're going to roleblock until after doing it, but we will want to know then. Why do you think Lucky is town? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254182#msg8254182) My suspicion is that you want to cover him, is this true?
@Luckyowl: Not only are you a pragmatic elimination target, but I think your play has been very anti-town. Now that you've done your sneaky Priest res what now? Why do you think scum would ignore a town priest if you're telling the truth? Who are you going to vote?
The Devil should probably claim if they exist...
Post by: Vector on March 01, 2021, 11:23:13 pm
This is in fact exactly what has happened. We have a seriously bimodal distribution in terms of who is being trusted and who is on the shitlist. So as I think has been said: I suppose we should expect someone from the middle tranche as the converter, and someone from the upper tranche as the convertee.
The ideal convertee would be someone who is a little bit unpredictable (but not too unpredictable), has a similar town and scum game, and is/was universally considered locktown. Someone with a lot of cred.
And if it was me, I'd be playing D1 with two people in mind.
I'm pretty sure Webadict wasn't converted, because he'd be making my life a living hell right now. Although considering himself the ideal target is more of the usual arrogance at best ;) Why convert someone who's guaranteed to die come D3?
No ... if I had my pick, there could be only one person.
Jim Groovester, we've heard from Toony. How's life?
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 12:07:11 am
I've eaten my hat because web put 5 SKs and no scumteam in a game before. After that, I've been pretty cautious.NQT and 4mask, I'm a bit worried you all are trying too much to outguess Meph here. I do agree that there are possibilities outside of full-blown Vampire Cult.You're talking to two of the most mechanically and pattern-oriented mafia players on Bay12. Of course we're going to read through previous games and try and read into them. And honestly... we're probably right, all things considered. I'll eat my hat if there's a vampire cult or more than two starting third parties in this game.
Of course now that we've brought up these things Meph might screw with them in the future just to mess with us, but still.
Did I say don't read into previous games? No, I said don't try and outguess Meph. Meph's told us that there aren't any new roles, so looking at old games is fine, I've been doing plenty of that too, but going "Meph wouldn't do this" is a good way of shooting yourself in the foot.
Well
Persus13
Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?
There's a big list of half the town who could be the converter and I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary. Webadict made a comment D1 about Toaster throwing out questions to look active but without much follow up and that captured really well why I'm suspicious of both of them. I'm having trouble getting a good read on Vector, so I'll say they're my third, but Jim and Lucky/Blu could easily be here too.
NQT and webadict feel pretty solidly town, mainly based on my gut and their solid play. I don't really buy Toony's case on NQT, and think its largely based on null tells. I'm finding Tric super disruptive, and am not a big fan of his play, but I don't think he'd make three different claims as scum, so he'd be my third town pick. Otherwise, I'm not really getting the suspicions everyone's throwing at Juice, but he (or his replacement) needs to claim something tangible for me to solidly pick him as town.
webadict:
Is it time for a lurkerTracker post? I'm really missing the old one.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 12:11:09 am
@MOD:
Can third-party be converted?
Is every town role convertable? If not, which ones fail and what is the outcome?
Post by: Mephansteras on March 02, 2021, 12:19:32 am
I forgot to ask some questions earlier that 4mask reminded me of while reading, let's fix that.
@MOD:
Can third-party be converted?
Is every town role convertable? If not, which ones fail and what is the outcome?
Some of them. It depends on the role and sometimes who's doing the converting.
Most are. Sorcerers are immune to night actions and Monster Hunters either die to a conversion or are immune (depending on who's doing the conversion).
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2021, 12:21:29 am
And for lack of anything better to go off of I'm going to coast off my Day 1 reads and say Persus13 is probably who we should lynch today.
Re: Resurrections
So basically since BluearianKnight claimed to be a Lone Vampire we know that Luckyowl's resurrection wasn't pious, and that Lone Vampire could be a fake claim for something nastier e.g. another member of the scum team or a Demon.
As a completely irrelevant side note if Luckyowl is actually town and telling the truth about refusing the Devil deal his resurrection should have been pious since he is, truly, pure and simple.
Re: Cults
The only thing we have to go off of to think there's a cult (either real cult or scum team with one shot convert) is the lack of a night kill, right? I'd say we'd need more information but we probably don't have the time to get it.
Right now the only thing we can trust is our Day 1 reads, for what they're worth. Haven't really seen much in the way of scumhunting during Day 2, but a lot of theorizing and nailbiting. I'd look into who feels different during Day 2 but that's difficult and there hasn't been a fantastically strong showing by anybody so far during Day 2.
Re: Devil
I doubt the Devil is convertible so I'm pretty ambivalent about them claiming or not since in theory they might soak up a conversion attempt. Having some kills or inspects in this game would be really handy to have right about now.
This is literally Day 1 again, except we're worse off.
Jim Groovester, we've heard from Toony. How's life?
This is actually even more of a literal repeat of Day 1 because not only did you vote me on Day 1 with the same wording I am also loading myself up with beers once again. Hmm, something's missing though.... (https://soundcloud.com/cirrostratus1/sets/attack-on-titan-ost)
I'll acknowledge that I'm a high value convert target like everybody else patting themselves on the back about it, but, no, I am still town.
And dammit, Vector, can I go to work? You're not paying me to be here. (If you wanted to start that's a conversation I wouldn't mind having.)
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2021, 12:57:00 am
Also, I'm saying it now; the signal to noise ratio in D1 was not great. I find myself jumping at shadows because of convert paranoia and a lot of distractions happening.
Bad lynches for today:
Luckyowl, BK, and 4mask. I think the reasoning is spelled out enough at this point. Seriously, any of these three is an absolute trash tier lynch. I'd rather be lynched than see any of them lynched, because a Toaster lynch (from everyone else's perspective) could be reasoned out, and would at least narrow the converter pool. So what about the rest? As I said above, I lean against it being TricMagic or Juicebox. For right this minute, I'm going to go past them, except to say my suspicion of TricMagic has waned since D1. After even more reading, Juicebox didn't have to claim just yet. I think Cult Leader Juicebox would have been less likely to claim something that can be somewhat tested later. I lean a bit more away from Juicebox as the converter, but not necessarily that he's not scum. That leaves seven names on the converter list.
Webadict:
Very convinced throughout D1 that Jim and Toony are town. I'd love to see Web address that view of Has Always Been Town Jim/Toony, and not Potential Convert Jim/Toony, which he addressed here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254365#msg8254365). And sure, yeah, my Top Picks For Convert would be Jim/Toony/Web/Vector shooting from the hip; that's a fairly obvious list to make. But what about reassessing them as cult leader? Would like to see this from Web.
Web, what about TricMagic? Do you still think they're town? I still think you gave me too much grief for holding a vote on him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252522#msg8252522) until he stopped ignoring my question to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309).
Vector:
Vector... honestly, Vector's moving pretty far up my Converter list. I feel like I see analysis that does necessarily lead into voted conclusions? I really wish I could link a couple posts and explain my feelings but I feel like they're just... there. Making side comments, posting the apparently-meta-now readlists, and then voting. Voting with a reason but not a case, maybe? I don't know; Vector's pinged my gut all game and that ping is getting louder.
ToonyMan:
Toony, after RVS, voted Luckyowl (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252413#msg8252413) and sat on it all day. He poked around, but never varied his vote, even during the cluster that was the end of D1. I actually find this fairly townlean, coming from Toony and his stated reasons on it. He's even back voting Lucky today, even though I say that's a terrible lynch.
Toony: Why do you think Lucky is not a terrible lynch?
Persus13 aka Secretdorf:
Secret's an odd case; he started out with a joke read list in lieu of participating, but I actually liked this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252595#msg8252595) as he went out; it felt genuine. Well, except for the "I think Tric is scum but I'm voting someone else" bit; that's poor.
Persus, meanwhile, has one substantive post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253139#msg8253139) so far, which was D1. Persus is posting surface reactions, reacting to events instead of analyzing them. Free passes for being replaced have run out; we need actual content from Persus.
Jim Groovester:
I would like you to restate your case on Persus, though, for clarity.
IcyTea31:
IcyTea was all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight (http://all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight), but then voted juicebox (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253431#msg8253431). He backs into Luckyowl (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253449#msg8253449) again, noting "pushback from Vector and and Toony." He doesn't take this analysis anywhere. Why, IcyTea? What do you make of this now?
notquitethere:
Looking back, I think I was too harsh on NQT for his meta-analyses. It's moving into D2 and we're past the intro hump; he should have some data to work on now. I'm very interested in hearing what he has to say.
In conclusion? I'd say the likelyhood chart is something like this, starting at the top:
Quote
Vector
Jim Groovester
IcyTea31
webadict
Persus13
notquitethere
ToonyMan
I'd like to see someone above the gap hang, and I'd start with Vector. Vector, do you think there was a conversion last night? If so, who did it? Who'd they pick?
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 12:58:32 am
Also, LOL. Would that I had enough spare dollarcents to pay people to play Mafia with me.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2021, 01:05:47 am
Jim Groovester:What's your top three scum picks right now? You haven't posted any substantive thoughts D2.Aaannd Ninjad. That's actually good, because I really wanted to know if you kept your vote on Persus. It wasn't made with much reasoning that I saw D1, and it's back here again. This actually knocks Persus down my converter suspect list a fair bit, because you are my top choice for likely convert. If you're converted, it's probably not Persus. Thanks!
I would like you to restate your case on Persus, though, for clarity.
Carryover from when Persus13 was Secretdorf. Secretdorf betrayed voting for his top suspect not once but twice. I'd link the posts but I am lazy and they shouldn't be too hard to find since Secretdorf made about five of them.
Persus13 hasn't done much to change my mind since he's tagged in.
Not exactly a fun spot to be in if you're Persus13 but I am here to win games and continue my GLORY DAYS streak and not to be fair to replacements.
I'm not buggin' ya for "lurking," my dude. I know you have work. I just want to make sure you don't take the opportunity to lurky-lurk later on like in BYOR 15 cuz no one is paying attention to you.
I'm not lurking!
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 01:09:38 am
I'd like to see someone above the gap hang, and I'd start with Vector. Vector, do you think there was a conversion last night? If so, who did it? Who'd they pick?
I'm not remotely operating on full cylinders right now, but:
See my last post for an analysis of how I'd expect a converter to play.
I agree that Tric, Blu, Lucky are not the converter. 4mask is not the converter. This points to some narrowing for who would be the converted party: I'd expect the newer people to go for someone who "looks strong" or their buddies (i.e. I think Tric might have converted LuckyOwl and that 4mask might have converted ICT or NQT).
I'm guessing the converter is one of ICT, you, and NQT. My guess for converted would be ... hm.
I don't think it's Web, Persus, or juicebox. I'm still leaning one of you, ICT, Jim, Toony. 4mask would also be a good choice.
I need to do a reread and take notes for interactions, but right now I need to sleep.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 01:10:12 am
I'm not lurking!
ah know yer not! >:V
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 02:55:41 am
@Luckyowl: Not only are you a pragmatic elimination target, but I think your play has been very anti-town. Now that you've done your sneaky Priest res what now? Why do you think scum would ignore a town priest if you're telling the truth? Who are you going to vote?
wow, if you're town you're really trying to throw off a town victory. Sorry for not being here when I had other things to do?
Why scum ignored me on night phase? probably to get me lynch on day 2 with bogus reasoning(seriously, we're all going to ignore that 4mask wanted me lynch because"if Lucky flip town, then blu is town..)...and I already voted 4mask, ToonyMan. but I'm might as well place my vote onto you..
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 03:30:40 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 03:40:19 am
Well, that pretty much cross me off as a possible suspect. Since I brought Blu back from the dead. Sadly, it seems not as townie. From my understanding from meph explanation on how my one shot ability works. Is that I don't know if I'm pure or not. Which has nothing to do with my alignment. Also another tidbit. I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.I think someone else said up-thread that conversion is even lower in priority and so happens after resurrection. You're quite right that no one thinks you're the converter. People are just wondering if:
1. You were a scum priest trying to raise a town player onto your team
2. You were converted
I doubt #2. #1 is possible.
"if Lucky flip town, then blu is town.."If you flip town, then people thought we could believe Blu's claim of being resurrected as a vampire. Unfortunately, Blu could also have been raised onto the scum team whether you're town or not.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 03:58:29 am
Juice said they would be away for work during the day end. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253337#msg8253337) Fair enough, Toaster had a similar excuse (after voting Blue).Good catch, did make a note of that myself.
The difference is that Toaster never posted the rest of Day 1.
As soon as a Juicebox bandwagon formed (started by NQT), Juicebox is suddenly here and claiming. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253436#msg8253436)
Now why is that? My guess is that Juice has actually been following the thread the entire end of Day 1, but chose to lurk in the shadows while waiting for day end. That is extremely anti-town.
So we have a Devil who thought Lucky would be foolish enough to accept a soul deal...That would put the devil as someone who's played with Lucky before, because I can definitely see that logic. Scum!Lucky would probably accept, but also would lie about refusing, so it's not massively useful.
notquitethere
Overall, the least suspected players yesterday, in order, were:Why can't the converter be in that pool as well as the convertee?
Very not lynchable
1. Jim
2. Toony
Not Lynchable
3. Web
4. Vector
Everyone else...
If there was a conversion, the conversion probably happened in this pool. Everyone else is much more lynchable. That all said, we actually want to lynch the converter as a priority. Let's assume the converter is someone moderately suspected from outside this pool:
Why the passive voice: "least suspected players" and not "players I least suspect"?
ICT, you jumped off the juicewagon on D1 which indirectly led to Blu's death. Was "pushback from Vector and Toony" all the info you wanted to collect? Why not follow through on Juice?My vote on juice's primary purpose was to collect data on reactions to the CFD, yes. I was fine with any of BK, juice or Lucky being lynched, Lucky was simply my preference. That has changed, though.
Persus13, Toaster, general thoughts
I'd love to hear what IcyTea's thoughts on the end of D1 and D2 so far because you seemed to be pretty out of it after parking your vote on LuckyOwl. I'm used to you having more/longer posts and being more of a day game leader, but a lot of your posts are reactionary or don't have followup and are pretty short.
IcyTea was all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight (http://all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight), but then voted juicebox (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253431#msg8253431). He backs into Luckyowl (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253449#msg8253449) again, noting "pushback from Vector and and Toony." He doesn't take this analysis anywhere. Why, IcyTea? What do you make of this now?I was multitasking, and was frustrated with how I'd get ninja'd ten times before I could get a longer post out, so I switched out my style for more agility, counting on the posts being analyzed during the night so I'd need to be less explicit. But since you asked:
-Notquitethere led the EoD actively and competently. Pretty much past my accusation of trying to distract with mechanics.
-webadict was pretty passive, but I'm the pot on that.
-juicebox materializing from the aether to post after being CFD'd looks a lot like being spooked while intentionally lurking.
-Toony and Vector didn't join the CFD, which weakly links them with juicebox. Vector was pretty happy to relax as well.
-CFD didn't spook anyone into changing their vote to protect juicebox, which would have been telling.
-From what I can figure of the night so far, a Luckyowl lynch is no longer as informative as it would have been D1.
Vector
The ideal convertee would be someone who is a little bit unpredictable (but not too unpredictable), has a similar town and scum game, and is/was universally considered locktown. Someone with a lot of cred.
And if it was me, I'd be playing D1 with two people in mind [webadict, Jim Groovester].
I'm guessing the converter is one of ICT, [Toaster], and NQT. My guess for converted would be ... hm.Why would you not convert Toony yourself?
I don't think it's Web, Persus, or juicebox. I'm still leaning one of [Toaster], ICT, Jim, Toony. 4mask would also be a good choice.
Why don't you think web is converted?
Why are you going for convertee before converter?
I mostly agree with who you expressly rule out of converter and convertee.
General thoughts
I don't entirely understand the cases on Toaster right now. It looks to be a process-of-elimination type case from most people on it, but that doesn't make sense, when several veterans had put each other in the "read later" pile. I think it's too early for a PoE. If I had to build a case on Toaster, I'd start with the aloof attitude rather than maths, and even that's something Toaster has had in past games as town, or perhaps assuming that a veteran would convert Toaster as a joke. I don't really have any specific complaints about their play, myself.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 04:27:36 am
Anyway, in a super meta read and me thinking about stuff, I know Luckyowl is telling the truth about being visited by the Devil because the Night took two days, so Meph probably had to wait for a response. I don't know order of operations on convert and devil deal though. Find out later.
Saw questions, but half asleep on phone. @Toaster: will post updated reads later. Would prefer not Vector. Would also prefer not Jim. Opposed to Lucky. Okay with maybe Icy, but idk right away. drfo okay with nqt or Toaster. Would think ToonyMan is too soon. Okay with juicebox or Persus. Actually maybe save Persus, I remember reading something from them I liked. Not Blue. is that everyone?
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 04:29:47 am
1. Why can't the converter be in that pool as well as the convertee?1. They absolutely can be, I just think it more likely that scum would not be the least suspected players. You have to make assumptions and go with the best working theory in this game otherwise you'd never make any decisions.
2. Why the passive voice: "least suspected players" and not "players I least suspect"?
2. Because it's not who I least suspected but who everyone least suspected (otherwise this would have been worthless for considering what the scum team might have picked). I aggregated all of the reads on D1 to make the list. Here's the full stats. Numbers range from 13 (everyone defends) to 91 (everyone is voting):
Aggregate Reads D1
ToonyMan 32
Jim Groovester 34
webadict 41
4maskwolf 41
Vector 44
IcyTea31 49
TricMagic 52
notquitethere 55
Toaster 56
Persus13/Secretdorf 57
Luckyowl 58
BluarianKnight 59
juicebox 61
As you can see by Blu, being highly "suspected" doesn't mean a player is definitely scum, it just means a lot of people want them out of the game.
My vote on juice's primary purpose was to collect data on reactions to the CFD, yes. I was fine with any of BK, juice or Lucky being lynched, Lucky was simply my preference. That has changed, though.OK, so what conclusions can you draw from this "data"?
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 04:31:02 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 04:43:16 am
They absolutely can be, I just think it more likely that scum would not be the least suspected players.The issue is, least suspected also means least pushed:
Quote
As you can see by Blu, being highly "suspected" doesn't mean a player is definitely scum, it just means a lot of people want them out of the game.I'd argue this is true in the opposite sense as well, as several of the veterans barely pushed against each other in direct interaction, and only looked at them from the side: they're not least suspected because they've concluded they're town, but because pushing against a veteran takes a lot of effort and damages towncred on both sides, so they're being saved for later Days.
Quote
OK, so what conclusions can you draw from this "data"?See the same post, under "Persus13, Toaster, general thoughts".
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 04:50:57 am
drfo okay with nqtThis is strange to me. You pushed hard that Luckyowl flipping scum would confirm NQT as such as well, and in your posts on this day, you've shown trust in NQT's analyses. For someone you mention so often, I'd expect a stronger opinion than "okay to lynch", one way or the other.
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 06:10:00 am
I'd argue this is true in the opposite sense as well, as several of the veterans barely pushed against each other in direct interaction, and only looked at them from the side: they're not least suspected because they've concluded they're town, but because pushing against a veteran takes a lot of effort and damages towncred on both sides, so they're being saved for later Days.I'm inclined to agree with all this.
See the same post, under "Persus13, Toaster, general thoughts".Thanks, I must have skimmed over. I agree with your assessments overall, do you think Juice could be the devil?
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 06:19:39 am
Lucky not being scum doesn't make NQT not scum, only the contrapositve. I can like graphs and stuff, doesn't make them town though. Luckyowl can't lie on their own so they need someone that can. That's just easy rwading materi. I forgot what the point is budt don't think Lucky is scum, and nqt is gonna make me eat infographs for breakdastdrfo okay with nqtThis is strange to me. You pushed hard that Luckyowl flipping scum would confirm NQT as such as well, and in your posts on this day, you've shown trust in NQT's analyses. For someone you mention so often, I'd expect a stronger opinion than "okay to lynch", one way or the other.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 06:49:46 am
do you think Juice could be the devil?Possibly. I think it's likely that it's someone active and closely familiar with Luckyowl's psychology. Offering "help to looking like town" is a less impactful offer than I'd expect from an experienced player, however. This profile could fit juice, minus the activity, but someone like Toaster or TricMagic would be a closer fit.
I don't think hunting the devil is a high priority right now, though.
Webadict, go to sleep. I didn't like your response but you're clearly not at top performance right now.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 08:28:37 am
Which third-party can be converted?I forgot to ask some questions earlier that 4mask reminded me of while reading, let's fix that.Some of them. It depends on the role and sometimes who's doing the converting.
@MOD:
Can third-party be converted?
Is every town role convertable? If not, which ones fail and what is the outcome?
Most are. Sorcerers are immune to night actions and Monster Hunters either die to a conversion or are immune (depending on who's doing the conversion).
Toony: Why do you think Lucky is not a terrible lynch?Because he's scum. I'm more convinced he's been scum all along to be honest. I want to trust Web's read but I can't.
Lucky feels...heavily filtered.
1. His posts have been sparse and delayed. He hasn't pushed any cases, he's only popped in to say he's town and to defend himself.
2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).
3. He has voted three times:
First on Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) to lynch a player he suspected as strong town so he can bring them back as confirmed?? (sure he says Web could be mafia, but Web isn't in their three mafia picks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924))
Second on Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253395#msg8253395) to save himself from getting lynched over Blue.
First on Day 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) as an OMGUS against 4maskwolf.
Complete shit votes that are either a terrible plan or to protect himself. Has not scum-hunted at all, which brings me to my next point.
4. He has actively participated less than Juicebox and Secretdorf and they're not even playing.
5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.
Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?
"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."
The whole thing is fishy.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 08:37:47 am
I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.Where? In scumchat?
From my understanding your conversion would happen and then you would perform your resurrection as your new alignment. So you're lying.
@MOD:
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?
Kills happen during that time too, so if somebody killed you that would also prevent the res. Scum decided not to do that either apparently.
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 08:40:32 am
And I note Lucky ignored this question:
Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 09:24:42 am
No, conversions and kills happen right before disturbing the dead. Look at the action order in the OP.Well, that pretty much cross me off as a possible suspect. Since I brought Blu back from the dead. Sadly, it seems not as townie. From my understanding from meph explanation on how my one shot ability works. Is that I don't know if I'm pure or not. Which has nothing to do with my alignment. Also another tidbit. I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.I think someone else said up-thread that conversion is even lower in priority and so happens after resurrection. You're quite right that no one thinks you're the converter. People are just wondering if:
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 09:39:44 am
The fact that he blindly OMGUS'd a survivor for pointing out he's a mechanically favorable lynch target is also NAGL. There's not even any logic behind it it's just pure OMGUS, "you voted me so I'm voting you lol." Didn't you suspect Toonyman Lucky? He's voting you too and suspects you way harder than I am. So where's your vote on him?
Side note, I'm pretty sure the mechanically optimal strategy for the town re: devils is for the first townie given the deal to accept it and then no further townies to do so. If anyone admits to taking the second deal it should then be considered outing as a wolf. Basically, one deal for the town is fine because the wolves don't want to give the devil two wolves, two deals is bad for the town because the wolves could use it late game as ex. a LYLO breaker getting two town for one wolf.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 09:42:25 am
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 09:57:03 am
And I note Lucky ignored this question:Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:07:36 am
That's true. I also retract my statement that the Devil should claim, it's better for town if they stay quiet about who they are.
I think only having one townie accepting a deal is good, but I don't see how we can make sure of that. Plus scum would have to risk taking significant loses if every remaining town player refuses deals after the first player accepts.
@Luckyowl:
According to 4mask optimal play would have been to accept the first Devil deal as a townie, why selfishly hold onto your life when we could get rid of two scum after via Devil?
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 10:11:09 am
Lucky's defense relies on an incredibly tortured interpretation of the facts, if you can even call it that. Meph already more or less stated that if Lucky was converted last night his revive would still have gone through and Blue would have been revived with Lucky doing the revival as a scum priest. Thus, the potential two-for-one people are talking about. So no, the fact that there was likely a conversion last night does not by any stretch of the imagination clear him, although if we are looking at a conversion team it would, imo, clear him from being on the team at start of game for balance reasons.When you say conversion team do you mean a full cult or a one-shot? I could see a two person scumteam having a priest and a one-shot, especially if its an impious one.
NQT:
The thing is, only an idiot devil would say "You will give me you soul in exchange for this gift", right? They're under no obligation to mention that part of the deal.The problem with this argument is the flavor for the devil each time its shown up (Supernatural 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1403507#msg1403507), Supernatural 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2644008#msg2644008), Supernatural 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7592912#msg7592912)) contradicts this. Its pretty explicit about the whole give up your soul thing.
LuckyOwl:
Since you're here, were you on the way to the graveyard or coming back from it? And you haven't answered Toony's question.And I note Lucky ignored this question:Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
Icytea:
Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on a break and firing off something?I'd love to hear what IcyTea's thoughts on the end of D1 and D2 so far because you seemed to be pretty out of it after parking your vote on LuckyOwl. I'm used to you having more/longer posts and being more of a day game leader, but a lot of your posts are reactionary or don't have followup and are pretty short.IcyTea was all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight (http://all for lynching either Luckyowl or BluarianKnight), but then voted juicebox (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253431#msg8253431). He backs into Luckyowl (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253449#msg8253449) again, noting "pushback from Vector and and Toony." He doesn't take this analysis anywhere. Why, IcyTea? What do you make of this now?I was multitasking, and was frustrated with how I'd get ninja'd ten times before I could get a longer post out, so I switched out my style for more agility, counting on the posts being analyzed during the night so I'd need to be less explicit. But since you asked:
-Notquitethere led the EoD actively and competently. Pretty much past my accusation of trying to distract with mechanics.
-webadict was pretty passive, but I'm the pot on that.
-juicebox materializing from the aether to post after being CFD'd looks a lot like being spooked while intentionally lurking.
-Toony and Vector didn't join the CFD, which weakly links them with juicebox. Vector was pretty happy to relax as well.
-CFD didn't spook anyone into changing their vote to protect juicebox, which would have been telling.
-From what I can figure of the night so far, a Luckyowl lynch is no longer as informative as it would have been D1.
I stayed on Toaster pretty much all of day end, does that weakly link me to anyone?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 10:13:45 am
MODWhich third-party can be converted?I forgot to ask some questions earlier that 4mask reminded me of while reading, let's fix that.Some of them. It depends on the role and sometimes who's doing the converting.
@MOD:
Can third-party be converted?
Is every town role convertable? If not, which ones fail and what is the outcome?
Most are. Sorcerers are immune to night actions and Monster Hunters either die to a conversion or are immune (depending on who's doing the conversion).Toony: Why do you think Lucky is not a terrible lynch?Because he's scum. I'm more convinced he's been scum all along to be honest. I want to trust Web's read but I can't.
Lucky feels...heavily filtered.
1. His posts have been sparse and delayed. He hasn't pushed any cases, he's only popped in to say he's town and to defend himself.
2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).
3. He has voted three times:
First on Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) to lynch a player he suspected as strong town so he can bring them back as confirmed?? (sure he says Web could be mafia, but Web isn't in their three mafia picks (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924))
Second on Day 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253395#msg8253395) to save himself from getting lynched over Blue.
First on Day 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) as an OMGUS against 4maskwolf.
Complete shit votes that are either a terrible plan or to protect himself. Has not scum-hunted at all, which brings me to my next point.
4. He has actively participated less than Juicebox and Secretdorf and they're not even playing.
5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.
Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?
"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."
The whole thing is fishy.
I can't..you know if I flip town and these ridículos claims are left here for people to see. It'll only make you look bad. There's better targets than me,Like NQT. Why, oh why would I create an eleborate or my "puppeteer" would create an convulted plan to lie about me rezzing? The fact you are thinking like this ironically makes me think you're town misguided.
if I knew the devil deal was a neutral party and the deal was good for town as well. I would've accepted it and probably never mention it so I don't give the scum more info on what else I can do.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 10:18:51 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:20:39 am
If I'm misguided town then why is NQT a better target?
As for the Devil deal, fair enough. I don't think you're lying about being visited.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 10:20:49 am
@TricMagic: Why did you claim Knight on Day 1? You realize that would only help scum?
You're. You're really asking this? Did not being painted as a true orange werebear not clue in the need for that? I try and stay from saying so and people paint me as something I didn't even know existed. Just not having the right info resulting in a mess. NQT didn't have to make that last post. They did, which does lead me to believe they aren't playing for town. They had pretty much pushed everyone off of me, which would leave mafia as the only ones worrying if I was lying and had some powerful role. But Notquitethere pushed it. Had I stayed silent I would have been lynched, and at that point being revived wouldn't really help any, I'd be roleflipped.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 10:25:37 am
4mask:One-shot. I will stake quite a bit on us not looking at a full conversion team, for reasons already stated. I'll get back to your response to me later, I'm at work, I just hopped on to say something to Toony. Your theory isn't bad per se but I'm playing under the assumption that we won't see an out-of-the-blue wolf team setup like that. Let's reduce that from "conversion team means Lucky started town" to "conversion team means Lucky >rand started town".Lucky's defense relies on an incredibly tortured interpretation of the facts, if you can even call it that. Meph already more or less stated that if Lucky was converted last night his revive would still have gone through and Blue would have been revived with Lucky doing the revival as a scum priest. Thus, the potential two-for-one people are talking about. So no, the fact that there was likely a conversion last night does not by any stretch of the imagination clear him, although if we are looking at a conversion team it would, imo, clear him from being on the team at start of game for balance reasons.When you say conversion team do you mean a full cult or a one-shot? I could see a two person scumteam having a priest and a one-shot, especially if its an impious one.
@4maskwolf:You can't have your cake and eat it too, Toonyman. You can't one minute ask why Lucky played mechanically proper because he could never do that and the next say demand to know why he didn't make an optimal play. You can't demand to know why someone didn't take an action based on a mechanical strategy devised after they already took said action, especially when you've already stated that there's no way they could take a mechanically optimal approach without assistance. And your implied take that Lucky wouldn't accept the devil offer because he's a wolf under that strategy shows a lack of thought behind your push because five seconds of thought on it would realize that a wolf would always take the first deal as well under that strategy, because it denies the town the extra ability and the town doesn't know they're a wolf and will refuse any more deals. It also allows them to slip in under the town's radar to get an ability for the wolf team.
That's true. I also retract my statement that the Devil should claim, it's better for town if they stay quiet about who they are.
I think only having one townie accepting a deal is good, but I don't see how we can make sure of that. Plus scum would have to risk taking significant loses if every remaining town player refuses deals after the first player accepts.
@Luckyowl:
According to 4mask optimal play would have been to accept the first Devil deal as a townie, why selfishly hold onto your life when we could get rid of two scum after via Devil?
Your cases today seem extremely low-effort compared to what you were doing yesterday. Your question to Tric "why did you claim knight" is laughable since you were literally there when it happened and part of the cause of it by insisting he was a werebear. Your case on Lucky is first to sheep me on why he's an optimal target (fair enough, NAI) and then to go on a massive tear about the devil thing where you constantly contradict yourself on your own thoughts on Lucky. I haven't felt the same kind of townie energy that I mindmelded with so hard yesterday. What's the deal?
PPE: Ninja'd on the "wtf was that question" by Tricmagic.
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 10:31:00 am
Had I stayed silent I would have been lynched, and at that point being revived wouldn't really help any, I'd be roleflipped.It's not my fault you breadcrumbed the complete opposite kind of fakeclaim to the thing you actually claim to have! If you saw a werebear serial killer try to encourage people to visit him at night, wouldn't you say something?
Toony
Ah I see. I knew the Devil could PM anything but hadn't considered that the game would be given away with Meph's descriptions.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:34:01 am
You were not up to be lynched at all. You claimed for no reason. Any flak you got was your own fault from claiming roles in the first place.
@4mask:
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.
As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:37:02 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 10:40:56 am
@4mask:That doesn't really explain why one moment you were pressing him because "you made what I consider the best play and I don't believe you're a good enough player to do that" and the next minute you're pressing him because "why didn't you make what a highly mechanical player considers to be an optimal play". Those things are straight up contradictory, Lucky can't both be too incompetent to make a theoretically optimal play and so competent that he should have considered making a different theoretically optimal play before it was even brought up. It seems like you're just grasping at anything to attack Luckyowl regardless of whether your case has any internal consistency.
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.
As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 02, 2021, 10:41:10 am
4maskwolf: 1: Luckyowl
IcyTea31: 1: Persus13
Jim Groovester: 1: Vector
juicebox: 1: BluarianKnight
Luckyowl: 2: notquitethere, ToonyMan
notquitethere: 1: TricMagic
Persus13: 1: Jim Groovester
Toaster: 1: webadict
ToonyMan: 1: 4maskwolf
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
@MOD:
Which third-party can be converted?
You don't know. (This is a hidden set-up for Scum and 3rd parties, after all)
@MOD:
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?
Correct. A kill could stop it, but not a conversion.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 10:42:34 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 10:44:23 am
Interesting case, and I don't disagree with much of it; Lucky is very much lynchable. A couple of the points seem a little forced, though:
2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).Why is the exact role-per-player composition of the scumteam important, especially when we don't know what else they might have?
Quote
5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.Why wouldn't the scumteam accept the same deal?
Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?
"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."
The whole thing is fishy.
Persus13
Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on a break and firing off something?That juicebox was not a part of the conversation until the CFD, and jumped in eleven minutes after NQT's call for it. That's reading the thread, but choosing not to participate in it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. lurking.
Quote
I stayed on Toaster pretty much all of day end, does that weakly link me to anyone?Hardly, because you're another who barely posted in those last couple of hours.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 10:50:47 am
This wagon formation always catches a wolf.EBWOP, because I remembered what the proper phrase was.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 02, 2021, 10:55:13 am
ToonyMan, there's merit in your case on Luckyowl, but he's almost certainly not the converter, so why are you focusing on him?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 11:06:52 am
I know my name isn't Toonyman but this is getting really aggravating to hear the same stupid argument over and over.
Who the converter is does not matter, at least not more than finding any other wolf.
There is no reason to believe we're facing a full cult (the ONLY case in which finding the converter is somehow more important than any other wolf. And yes, I'm including Dark magus in that because finding the magus doesn't actually stop the nightkill) and strong metagame reasons to believe we're not. We're going on something like eight years since a full cult has been run in Supernatural and there have been multiple experiments with one-shot converts since then, which indicates that Meph understands the horrific problems that full cults present and has been trying to find a way to keep the cult flavor with a balanced team. Since we're confirmed to not be seeing anything new this game that means we're not going to see an attempted rebalance of a full cult, so thus, the converter doesn't matter since they're almost certainly a one-shot.
People see indications there might be a cult and freak out like "OMG must find converter" to the point where it blinds them to everything else. If there is a cult, they are one-shot and used it last night. The converter can no convert no more people. That's that, nothing more.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 11:10:43 am
Well
Persus13
Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?
There's a big list of half the town who could be the converter and I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary. Webadict made a comment D1 about Toaster throwing out questions to look active but without much follow up and that captured really well why I'm suspicious of both of them. I'm having trouble getting a good read on Vector, so I'll say they're my third, but Jim and Lucky/Blu could easily be here too.
NQT and webadict feel pretty solidly town, mainly based on my gut and their solid play. I don't really buy Toony's case on NQT, and think its largely based on null tells. I'm finding Tric super disruptive, and am not a big fan of his play, but I don't think he'd make three different claims as scum, so he'd be my third town pick. Otherwise, I'm not really getting the suspicions everyone's throwing at Juice, but he (or his replacement) needs to claim something tangible for me to solidly pick him as town.
... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 11:12:57 am
Okay, I get it. My current guess is that Luckyowl is overly competent in decision making. I'll retract my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254602#msg8254602) here.@4mask:That doesn't really explain why one moment you were pressing him because "you made what I consider the best play and I don't believe you're a good enough player to do that" and the next minute you're pressing him because "why didn't you make what a highly mechanical player considers to be an optimal play". Those things are straight up contradictory, Lucky can't both be too incompetent to make a theoretically optimal play and so competent that he should have considered making a different theoretically optimal play before it was even brought up. It seems like you're just grasping at anything to attack Luckyowl regardless of whether your case has any internal consistency.
I see your first point and agree with it. If Lucky is scum he would definitely take the deal. I'm not sure what optimal play is which is why I used your name.
As for your second point, I don't see what's different. I've hated Lucky most of this game. If I see something I don't like I say something, doesn't matter who.
I still hold onto everything else I've stated.
So we can't keep third-party converts off the table.@MOD:You don't know. (This is a hidden set-up for Scum and 3rd parties, after all)
Which third-party can be converted?
Lucky is a confirmed liar. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254520#msg8254520)@MOD:Correct. A kill could stop it, but not a conversion.
A conversion wouldn't stop a priest from performing their resurrection the same night, correct?
I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.Did you really ask this Lucky? Why isn't it actually true?
I don't think my 2 point is very strong, but yes you're right. We don't know what scum can do, but a res did happen at least and nobody else is counter claiming.2. Someone else on his team could be the priest, meaning Lucky is still a possible converter (being completely puppeteered by his partners but still).Why is the exact role-per-player composition of the scumteam important, especially when we don't know what else they might have?
I think they would, my guess is that Lucky is lying about declining.Quote5. Claims a Devil visited them on Night 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) and they declined the offer. Lucky doesn't even fully read threads he's in as town, there's no way he would read other games. This smart-tell from Lucky makes me believe his scummates are assisting heavily.Why wouldn't the scumteam accept the same deal?
Why wouldn't Lucky, a complete newb, accept a Devil deal?
"I just used up my priest revive, having another ability would surely help town."
The whole thing is fishy.
ToonyMan, there's merit in your case on Luckyowl, but he's almost certainly not the converter, so why are you focusing on him?There's a lot we don't know and are assuming. I'm just going to scumhunt. I think it's likely there's a converter but only one-shot. I will vote someone else if I find them scummier.
PPE:
-sigh-I agree with this.
... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.The pot calls the kettle.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 11:25:45 am
... This isn't really better than secretdorf's list. Try harder.4maskwolf has the right to tell me to try harder. You don't. At this point I'm convinced if there's a Devil in this game, you're it because you seem to only care about three people in it and you not dying.
People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.Being lynched or voted is a powerful motivator for people to post, regardless of alignment, and Juicebox said it was a PFP. What makes you think this is alignment indicative more than just checking the thread on a break and firing off something?That juicebox was not a part of the conversation until the CFD, and jumped in eleven minutes after NQT's call for it. That's reading the thread, but choosing not to participate in it unless absolutely necessary, i.e. lurking.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 11:26:21 am
And I note Lucky ignored this question:Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 11:44:00 am
People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.I wouldn't have blinked if juicebox provided no response to the CFD, but they were present enough to jump and draft a claim minutes after its start.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 11:44:35 am
shakes head
Right now I have a few theories. ToonyMan hasn't really been giving townenergy today, so them being converted makes sense. On the other side is LO not actually reading as town to me now, particularly that one post I quoted. And being caught in a lie is kinda bad. NQT still reads negatively to me. So that really leaves Juicebox and Persus as the other two suspects.
So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 11:51:10 am
Yes. Juice is my second pick because of this.People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.I wouldn't have blinked if juicebox provided no response to the CFD, but they were present enough to jump and draft a claim minutes after its start.
Also you know...quietly replacing out without telling town his results.
Right, trying harder. I did bring a read list for day 1.You would know if somebody tried to kill you, Tric.
shakes head
Right now I have a few theories. ToonyMan hasn't really been giving townenergy today, so them being converted makes sense. On the other side is LO not actually reading as town to me now, particularly that one post I quoted. And being caught in a lie is kinda bad. NQT still reads negatively to me. So that really leaves Juicebox and Persus as the other two suspects.
So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 11:54:08 am
So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Why are you sure that we have a conventional scumteam?
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2021, 11:56:44 am
D2 Posts
Most investested
4maskwolf 24
ToonyMan 23
notquitethere 19
Keen
TricMagic 11
Vector 10
Modal
webadict 7
Persus13 7
Toaster 7
IcyTea31 7
Sluggish
Luckyowl 6
Jim Groovester 5
Literally not pretending to be town
BluarianKnight 2
Quit
juicebox 0
Toony wasn't converted. Bluarian has given up any attempt to scum hunt and has basically checked out. We will probably have to lynch Blu at some point, especially if the game doesn't end after 2 or 3 scum deaths. For those not paying attention, the mod has confirmed that even if Lucky is town, he could have revived Blu as mafia.
Bluarian who should town lynch today?
*(I had to amend the numbers a few times as people posted before I could post, but this should be accurate at the time of posting. I miss ZU's lurkertracker!)
Tric
See my previous posts on team composition. We could have a dark magus.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 11:57:27 am
This.So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Why are you sure that we have a conventional scumteam?
I’d like to reiterate that I am not the devil and would absolutely claim if I was. There’s another third party out there that isn’t me and hasn’t claimed.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 02, 2021, 12:07:11 pm
I would like an explanation for this as well:
Lucky is a confirmed liar. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254520#msg8254520)I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.Did you really ask this Lucky? Why isn't it actually true?
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 12:08:05 pm
Yes. Juice is my second pick because of this.People have lives outside of mafia. You yourself are using that to explain why you've barely posted, same as Jim, but you're attacking someone else for doing the same.I wouldn't have blinked if juicebox provided no response to the CFD, but they were present enough to jump and draft a claim minutes after its start.
Also you know...quietly replacing out without telling town his results.Right, trying harder. I did bring a read list for day 1.You would know if somebody tried to kill you, Tric.
shakes head
Right now I have a few theories. ToonyMan hasn't really been giving townenergy today, so them being converted makes sense. On the other side is LO not actually reading as town to me now, particularly that one post I quoted. And being caught in a lie is kinda bad. NQT still reads negatively to me. So that really leaves Juicebox and Persus as the other two suspects.
So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Ah, right..
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 01:16:19 pm
So, the setup is one Converter, two Mafia, 1 Devil, 1 Survivor, 9 Town. Would that be a potential setup for this game? Or rather.. Wouldn't 4mask end up being the devil? That brings it to 10 town, 1 cult leader, a Devil, and 2 mafia. The kill failing could be them getting redirected. Granted, if Luckyowl is town that could mean the devil targeted me while Mafia targeted Lucky, so the two targets got reversed. Which is why there would be no kill last night.
Of course, we could also have 2 Mafia with one of them having a Convert, so we have a 3 person team now Either way it's a theory that I think holds some merit.
Why are you sure that we have a conventional scumteam?
One more time, Tric.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 01:25:26 pm
That's a very different circumstance. There's no expectations going into a Wuba BYOR except "Web will try and balance it as best he can". No roles are known in advance, no scumteam composition, no nothing. There's not much point thinking too deeply about the mechanics because nothing can be said for certain.I've eaten my hat because web put 5 SKs and no scumteam in a game before. After that, I've been pretty cautious.NQT and 4mask, I'm a bit worried you all are trying too much to outguess Meph here. I do agree that there are possibilities outside of full-blown Vampire Cult.You're talking to two of the most mechanically and pattern-oriented mafia players on Bay12. Of course we're going to read through previous games and try and read into them. And honestly... we're probably right, all things considered. I'll eat my hat if there's a vampire cult or more than two starting third parties in this game.
Of course now that we've brought up these things Meph might screw with them in the future just to mess with us, but still.
Did I say don't read into previous games? No, I said don't try and outguess Meph. Meph's told us that there aren't any new roles, so looking at old games is fine, I've been doing plenty of that too, but going "Meph wouldn't do this" is a good way of shooting yourself in the foot.
Meph games are different. Meph games follow a pattern, they have certain similarities, and Meph often explains his thought process after trying something new. It's really not that hard to see Meph's previous games and see that he made three different attempts at a conversion mechanic in a row after the last vampire game, which ran before I even joined Bay12 mafia. And given the outcome of those vampire games, it's really not that hard to come to the conclusion that Meph realized a full cult was problematic and scrapped the idea as a wolf team for Supernatural.
I'd like to hear some more thoughts about Jim Groovester, if you wouldn't mind. What's got him in your "could be wolf" pile this game?Well
Persus13
Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?
There's a big list of half the town who could be the converter and I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary. Webadict made a comment D1 about Toaster throwing out questions to look active but without much follow up and that captured really well why I'm suspicious of both of them. I'm having trouble getting a good read on Vector, so I'll say they're my third, but Jim and Lucky/Blu could easily be here too.
NQT and webadict feel pretty solidly town, mainly based on my gut and their solid play. I don't really buy Toony's case on NQT, and think its largely based on null tells. I'm finding Tric super disruptive, and am not a big fan of his play, but I don't think he'd make three different claims as scum, so he'd be my third town pick. Otherwise, I'm not really getting the suspicions everyone's throwing at Juice, but he (or his replacement) needs to claim something tangible for me to solidly pick him as town.
I'd expect the newer people to go for someone who "looks strong" or their buddies (i.e. I think Tric might have converted LuckyOwl and that 4mask might have converted ICT or NQT).-angry dog noises-
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 01:29:04 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 01:36:14 pm
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 01:38:23 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 01:48:47 pm
Which is actually why I'm paying close attention to him and the fact that I'm not vibing with his posts today nearly as much as I was yesterday, because from my perspective he's a top-tier conversion option for most wolves.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 02:12:11 pm
How does activity for players compare to this time on Day 1?
@Conversions:
I probably would have converted me to. :(
I guess it's worth humoring, if I was a converter I would have hit Toaster > Jim > Web I think. It might be worth asking everybody to say their top conversion pick if they were a converter.
@4mask:
I still trust your survivor claim. While it's possible for third-party to be converted I see someone who is actively searching for scum in a day where most players aren't.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 02:25:13 pm
VectorThe ideal convertee would be someone who is a little bit unpredictable (but not too unpredictable), has a similar town and scum game, and is/was universally considered locktown. Someone with a lot of cred.
And if it was me, I'd be playing D1 with two people in mind [webadict, Jim Groovester].I'm guessing the converter is one of ICT, [Toaster], and NQT. My guess for converted would be ... hm.Why would you not convert Toony yourself?
I don't think it's Web, Persus, or juicebox. I'm still leaning one of [Toaster], ICT, Jim, Toony. 4mask would also be a good choice.
Why don't you think web is converted?
Why are you going for convertee before converter?
I mostly agree with who you expressly rule out of converter and convertee.
General thoughts
I don't entirely understand the cases on Toaster right now. It looks to be a process-of-elimination type case from most people on it, but that doesn't make sense, when several veterans had put each other in the "read later" pile. I think it's too early for a PoE. If I had to build a case on Toaster, I'd start with the aloof attitude rather than maths, and even that's something Toaster has had in past games as town, or perhaps assuming that a veteran would convert Toaster as a joke. I don't really have any specific complaints about their play, myself.
Actually, there's a minor misinterpretation of what I meant. At the bolded, what I meant was "there's no way I would play D1 with only one possible conversion target in mind." There is a strong incentive for the converter to let a strong townread on two or three targets go so that they don't play themselves into a corner. So in other words: if someone would normally say "the vets all confirming each other looks bad," they have an incentive to keep quiet.
And, honestly, I had the obvious two in mind: Toony and Jim Groovester.
For me in particular, I think converting Webadict would've been a good choice. As he mentions, 3rd on the list, we get along well together, we already had a big fight on D1, we tend to try to read and chainsaw or tunnel each other so there's a good meta excuse for our interactions. And, I'm fairly confident that I would have been able to handle the D3 Webadict Curse.
For most other players, Webadict is a bad conversion choice because he draws so much attention to himself and is, as we know, "always dead by D3." Whoever converted him would have to have a plan to deal with that.
As for why I was attacking Jim instead of people on the "converter" pile, it was literally just because Jim hadn't posted yet and I wanted to make sure that he wouldn't have the option of evading attention. I agree with people (4mask) who say that paying attention to converter over convertee doesn't make mechanical sense, but a critical point here is: we aren't "back to D1." For the converter, it's D2 (they were presumably already dropping tells D1). For the convertee, it's also D2. We're looking for someone with certain characteristics, who will additionally be acting differently today.
NQT: I'd actually like to ask you to detail your single-target analysis a little more. I love reading your stuff! The high point of every game.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 02:40:48 pm
Jim's game so far has been to go after me since I joined the game over Secretdorf, which is annoying, but I'm used to Jim going after me. Eventually he switched to Blu, didn't get involved in the CFD at all (I think he was busy?) and rode it out to lynch Blu by day end. While he's been vocal about LuckyOwl being scummy, he's also never actually voted them over it, and he also contributed to saving them from being lynched by choosing Blu over Lucky. So his game so far has been to vote to lynch one player who flipped town, helping save another player who he thought seemed scummy from the lynch in the process, and go after me, while it doesn't feel like he's actually doing a lot to get me lynched. That has a bit of saving an ally and pushing a case to appear active energy to it.I'd like to hear some more thoughts about Jim Groovester, if you wouldn't mind. What's got him in your "could be wolf" pile this game?Well
Persus13
Lucky has apparently decided that silence is the best option so I'll talk to you instead. I have been... less than impressed with your play thus far this game, and more specifically today. Mind giving me three people you're suspicious of, three people you think are town, and why?
There's a big list of half the town who could be the converter and I'm trying to narrow it down. I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary. Webadict made a comment D1 about Toaster throwing out questions to look active but without much follow up and that captured really well why I'm suspicious of both of them. I'm having trouble getting a good read on Vector, so I'll say they're my third, but Jim and Lucky/Blu could easily be here too.
NQT and webadict feel pretty solidly town, mainly based on my gut and their solid play. I don't really buy Toony's case on NQT, and think its largely based on null tells. I'm finding Tric super disruptive, and am not a big fan of his play, but I don't think he'd make three different claims as scum, so he'd be my third town pick. Otherwise, I'm not really getting the suspicions everyone's throwing at Juice, but he (or his replacement) needs to claim something tangible for me to solidly pick him as town.
Now, the main reason I'm not reading more into this yet is A. this requires Lucky to be his buddy. Toony's case on Lucky has some solid points that's making me consider it, but I'm not entirely convinced that his case of Lucky lying wasn't just a misunderstanding/miscommunication. B. Jim's not been super active, so that may explain why he's effectively had two votes this game. But still, its bothering me, especially now that Tea is showing up and playing D2 and gave some decent responses to my questions and stuck to their guns when I pressured them.
Actually, after rereading Jim Groovestar's posts this game, I'm going to vote him for now. Jim, what was your case on Blu again?
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 02:50:15 pm
@NQT:
How does activity for players compare to this time on Day 1?
@Conversions:
I probably would have converted me to. :(
I guess it's worth humoring, if I was a converter I would have hit Toaster > Jim > Web I think. It might be worth asking everybody to say their top conversion pick if they were a converter.
@4mask:
I still trust your survivor claim. While it's possible for third-party to be converted I see someone who is actively searching for scum in a day where most players aren't.
Hmm. I would go for Toaster personally. At that gamestate anyway, and this game would be very different if I was the converter. My start of day statement wouldn't exist for one. But it would have been a decent shift.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 02:54:53 pm
@4mask:
I still trust your survivor claim. While it's possible for third-party to be converted I see someone who is actively searching for scum in a day where most players aren't.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Re: Conversion Picks: I mean, when I was the Dark Magus I converted Toaster. I might do that again, but I'd probably go after webadict after D1 personally. Also is there a point to this? Where I'm standing this feels pretty WIFOMy.Individually it's WIFOMy, yes. I'd say getting a sense of the thread's consensus on who optimal conversion targets are might be useful if we're facing a dark magus team, though less useful against charismatic cult (and pointless if it was just that a kill got blocked).
Jim's game so far has been to go after me since I joined the game over Secretdorf, which is annoying, but I'm used to Jim going after me. Eventually he switched to Blu, didn't get involved in the CFD at all (I think he was busy?) and rode it out to lynch Blu by day end. While he's been vocal about LuckyOwl being scummy, he's also never actually voted them over it, and he also contributed to saving them from being lynched by choosing Blu over Lucky. So his game so far has been to vote to lynch one player who flipped town, helping save another player who he thought seemed scummy from the lynch in the process, and go after me, while it doesn't feel like he's actually doing a lot to get me lynched. That has a bit of saving an ally and pushing a case to appear active energy to it.Interesting. I felt a genuine helpfulness coming from Jim this game D1 that I didn't feel in BYOR 15 from wolf Jim (who largely sat there and old-man'd it up in thread) and actual attempts at solving. Don't have a good read on him D2 yet though, because lolconversions.
Now, the main reason I'm not reading more into this yet is A. this requires Lucky to be his buddy. Toony's case on Lucky has some solid points that's making me consider it, but I'm not entirely convinced that his case of Lucky lying wasn't just a misunderstanding/miscommunication. B. Jim's not been super active, so that may explain why he's effectively had two votes this game. But still, its bothering me, especially now that Tea is showing up and playing D2 and gave some decent responses to my questions and stuck to their guns when I pressured them.
PPE:
Tricmagic outright refusing to answer Vector's question is interesting in italics.
Tricmagic, what makes you so sure we have a conventional scumteam.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 03:01:55 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 03:03:46 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 03:05:31 pm
I ended up missing that post. Why wouldn't I make a theory? And is there really a difference between mafia and wolves other than flavoring and role abilities?So, "because you don't know" is the answer.
While there's basically no difference outside of unique roles between a killing cult and werewolves, and the charismatic cult has a one-shot kill and a unique role but otherwise is similar to a killing cult, Supernatural also contains one extra scumteam type that doesn't fit those molds. The Dark Magus, a single player scumteam with a large number of powerful abilities at their disposal, including a one-shot convert. So if we're assuming conversion, it's possible we're looking at a one player scumteam to increased to two overnight, which your setup math didn't take into account.
Unvote
Actually, why would this question even matter but for trying to lynch me 4maskwolf. I really am an easy target, a knight who can't be nightkilled and is likely to extend the game if lynched. Very Survivor. (Even if you do win by surviving, if you never aim at scum you won't die.)This is intensely stupid considering it's not even my question, I'm just repeating Vector's (though admittedly I had the same question as well). The answer to "why does it matter" is that you might have TMId knowing the nature of the scumteam by your comment, since you seemed very sure we were not looking at a Dark Magus.
The vote was to get your attention since that seems to be the only thing you pay attention to.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 03:29:51 pm
Interesting. I felt a genuine helpfulness coming from Jim this game D1 that I didn't feel in BYOR 15 from wolf Jim (who largely sat there and old-man'd it up in thread) and actual attempts at solving. Don't have a good read on him D2 yet though, because lolconversions.I haven't read BYOR15 so I don't have that to compare to. Were there third parties in BYOR 15?
As much as people are saying this is D1 all over again, we do have info to work of off. We know Blu was 100% town D1, so we can look at D1 through those lenses now. No night kill and a convert doesn't change their being a scumteam D1.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 03:33:49 pm
There was a third party in BYOR 15, IIRC it got ganked on N1 though long before it could actually fulfill its win condition. Not sure why that's relevant?Interesting. I felt a genuine helpfulness coming from Jim this game D1 that I didn't feel in BYOR 15 from wolf Jim (who largely sat there and old-man'd it up in thread) and actual attempts at solving. Don't have a good read on him D2 yet though, because lolconversions.I haven't read BYOR15 so I don't have that to compare to. Were there third parties in BYOR 15?
As much as people are saying this is D1 all over again, we do have info to work of off. We know Blu was 100% town D1, so we can look at D1 through those lenses now. No night kill and a convert doesn't change their being a scumteam D1.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 03:38:19 pm
Just an idle thought. Problem solving third parties is something scum does too, although I'll agree that its not super relevant here.There was a third party in BYOR 15, IIRC it got ganked on N1 though long before it could actually fulfill its win condition. Not sure why that's relevant?Interesting. I felt a genuine helpfulness coming from Jim this game D1 that I didn't feel in BYOR 15 from wolf Jim (who largely sat there and old-man'd it up in thread) and actual attempts at solving. Don't have a good read on him D2 yet though, because lolconversions.I haven't read BYOR15 so I don't have that to compare to. Were there third parties in BYOR 15?
As much as people are saying this is D1 all over again, we do have info to work of off. We know Blu was 100% town D1, so we can look at D1 through those lenses now. No night kill and a convert doesn't change their being a scumteam D1.
Bleh, I miss the old Lurkertracker.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 02, 2021, 04:17:36 pm
And I note Lucky ignored this question:Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.
I won't say no more. As I said I thought the devil was some sort of scum. I wasn't aware it was a neutral party.
ToonyMan: Fine, you want to think I'm scum because I'm a compulsive liar. Sure. go ahead. luckyowl let's see if I'm lying.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 04:18:14 pm
ToonyMan: Fine, you want to think I'm scum because I'm a compulsive liar. Sure. go ahead. luckyowl let's see if I'm lying.Oh god not another one.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 02, 2021, 04:28:53 pm
BluarianKnight: 1: notquitethere
Jim Groovester: 2: Persus13, Vector
Caz: 1: BluarianKnight
Luckyowl: 4: IcyTea31, Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
Persus13: 1: Jim Groovester
Toaster: 1: webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Caz has replaced in for juicebox
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 04:29:04 pm
I actually don't think LO is scum, though. Looks like a cracked townie to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 04:30:33 pm
Hi.
What was you dreamwalker result last night?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 04:31:41 pm
I am like *this close* to just voting LO and getting this nonsense over with. *this close*I'm probably going to go there at the end of the day because I'm of the opinion that it's the mechanically correct wagon for town, I'm sort of ambivalent on his actual alignment.
I actually don't think LO is scum, though. Looks like a cracked townie to me.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 04:35:07 pm
ToonyMan: Fine, you want to think I'm scum because I'm a compulsive liar. Sure. go ahead. luckyowl let's see if I'm lying.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want answers to my questions Lucky, not for you to zip your lips and self-vote.
What's up with your question to Meph?
Why is NQT a better target than you?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 04:40:33 pm
Individually it's WIFOMy, yes. I'd say getting a sense of the thread's consensus on who optimal conversion targets are might be useful if we're facing a dark magus team, though less useful against charismatic cult (and pointless if it was just that a kill got blocked).@MOD:
Will a player be notified if somebody tried to kill them?
For example, if somebody tried to kill a Knight and failed or somebody that was being protected was targeted for a kill and it failed.
Is a player notified if they are redirected?
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 04:43:39 pm
CAAAAAAAAAAAZ!This. Now. Please.
Hi.
What was you dreamwalker result last night?
Yes, this happened to me in Supernatural 6 when I was a Knight and got targeted by the Hunter. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781985#msg4781985)Individually it's WIFOMy, yes. I'd say getting a sense of the thread's consensus on who optimal conversion targets are might be useful if we're facing a dark magus team, though less useful against charismatic cult (and pointless if it was just that a kill got blocked).@MOD:
Will a player be notified if somebody tried to kill them?
For example, if somebody tried to kill a Knight and failed or somebody that was being protected was targeted for a kill and it failed.
Is a player notified if they are redirected?
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 04:44:00 pm
Gonna read this thread more closely before I make some real posting. One thing I will say though is that I don't have any dream to report, it was just random and unremarkable dreams last night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 04:45:21 pm
Hi I'm a juicebox.-squints-
Gonna read this thread more closely before I make some real posting. One thing I will say though is that I don't have any dream to report, it was just random and unremarkable dreams last night.
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2021, 04:45:29 pm
Hm, so we're dealing with a converter? Well, that pretty much cross me off as a possible suspect. Since I brought Blu back from the dead. Sadly, it seems not as townie. From my understanding from meph explanation on how my one shot ability works. Is that I don't know if I'm pure or not. Which has nothing to do with my alignment. Also another tidbit. I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.
The underlined bit isn't true.
Meph: If a Town Priest that is Pious (or whatever the term for "would res normally" is converted in the night to another team, what would happen to the res target?
Resurrections happen after Conversions, so they would act like a normal priest for that faction.
Other than that, I agree with what you said. I asked you to be useful, though, and you've yet to post any analysis. Get cracking.
I can't..you know if I flip town and these ridículos claims are left here for people to see. It'll only make you look bad. There's better targets than me,Like NQT. Why, oh why would I create an eleborate or my "puppeteer" would create an convulted plan to lie about me rezzing? The fact you are thinking like this ironically makes me think you're town misguided.
This isn't it.
Oh look, you self voted. If you want to convince people you're town, play the part. Do some analysis. Post some reads. Convince people your vote target is scum.
IcyTea:
So we have a Devil who thought Lucky would be foolish enough to accept a soul deal...That would put the devil as someone who's played with Lucky before, because I can definitely see that logic. Scum!Lucky would probably accept, but also would lie about refusing, so it's not massively useful.
Devil Toaster would have offered to Lucky last night, so I'm right there with you on that.
Toony:
Toony: Why do you think Lucky is not a terrible lynch?Because he's scum. I'm more convinced he's been scum all along to be honest. I want to trust Web's read but I can't.
Lucky feels...heavily filtered.
[snipped good case]
The whole thing is fishy.
This is... fairly convincing, actually. I still call Lucky a bad D2 lynch, but at the slightest hint that we're not dealing with Vampires, string him up. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Bluarian commit to double-block-into-kill Lucky.
I guess it's worth humoring, if I was a converter I would have hit Toaster > Jim > Web I think. It might be worth asking everybody to say their top conversion pick if they were a converter.
I'll play this game. Jim or you, then either Web or Vector because they're good in a way I can't replicate. Past that, someone who isn't about to get lynched or has a known problematic role.
Clarification to NQT:
Toony that's actually a pretty compelling case on Lucky. Especially the TMI aspect with the devil. The thing is, only an idiot devil would say "You will give me you soul in exchange for this gift", right? They're under no obligation to mention that part of the deal.
They are, actually. I was the first Devil in Super 1 and left that bit out of my first offer message, and Meph put it in there.
4mask:
Who the converter is does not matter, at least not more than finding any other wolf.
You'll forgive me if I don't share your conviction.
They are a role that has existed and has happened, so it is something that can happen again. All Meph has to do is handle the case of converting the roles too strong to be in cult hands (IE anything that gives them a kill and maybe priest) and that's boom job done, throw in that Vampire Lord. I will grant that I find a starter scum team of [Vampire Lord + Priest] to be extremely unlikely, however.
PPE:
Tricmagic outright refusing to answer Vector's question is interesting in italics.
Tricmagic, what makes you so sure we have a conventional scumteam.
Let's not forget he did the same thing to me.
TricMagic:
facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.
A one-shot protect? You really think that makes it so good?
I still think Luckyowl is bad D2 lynch. He's a great N2 Monster Hunter target, but I don't think we have that luxury.
BluarianKnight, where are you? Do you intend to block people in a spread or double-block-into-kill? Either way, who would you kill?
PPE Caz: Of course. Thanks for replacing, now make those reads happen.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 04:50:06 pm
Hi I'm a juicebox.Darn, I forgot that could happen. This is the result that happens Meph rolls a person without a night action in previous games.
Gonna read this thread more closely before I make some real posting. One thing I will say though is that I don't have any dream to report, it was just random and unremarkable dreams last night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 04:50:28 pm
4mask:Except that this would make the vampire lord a fundamentally different role than the role previously played, which is against what Meph said at the beginning of the game (that there would be no new roles). So either we have a classic vampire cult with a proper vampire lord, which I find hilariously unlikely for meta reasons, or we don't have a vampire cult at all.Who the converter is does not matter, at least not more than finding any other wolf.
You'll forgive me if I don't share your conviction.
They are a role that has existed and has happened, so it is something that can happen again. All Meph has to do is handle the case of converting the roles too strong to be in cult hands (IE anything that gives them a kill and maybe priest) and that's boom job done, throw in that Vampire Lord. I will grant that I find a starter scum team of [Vampire Lord + Priest] to be extremely unlikely, however.
Post by: Toaster on March 02, 2021, 04:54:23 pm
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens. If there's a scum-looking kill tonight, feel free to point and laugh at me, then we can all lynch Lucky. Until that happens, though, I'm assuming the worst.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 04:55:57 pm
NQT: I'd actually like to ask you to detail your single-target analysis a little more. I love reading your stuff! The high point of every game.
I know you aren't lurking, but I want to make sure we don't gloss past this post. Look forward to hearing from you later today.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 05:02:10 pm
OR the setup is constructed in such a way that nothing terribly broken happens. An impious priest would fit that description.Except that there’s an instant-lose condition to not lynching Lucky tonight too. If a charismatic cult got to lucky (which is MUCH greater odds than a vampire cult) we’re looking at 7 v 5 v 1 (counting the devil as townsiding) which is literally D2 MYLO since I always wolfside tomorrow on a mislynch in that scenario.
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens. If there's a scum-looking kill tonight, feel free to point and laugh at me, then we can all lynch Lucky. Until that happens, though, I'm assuming the worst.
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 05:03:27 pm
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 05:09:17 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 05:09:31 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 05:10:47 pm
Gonna read this thread more closely before I make some real posting. One thing I will say though is that I don't have any dream to report, it was just random and unremarkable dreams last night....Great.
I will add that I'm rereading Supernatural 6 because of Toony's question and there's a lot of similarities to that game and this one. The town Dreamwalker got lynched D1, no one died N1, and the dreamwalker got resurrected. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4731464#msg4731464)Hah, wow if I squint it looks like the same Day 2 start.
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens. If there's a scum-looking kill tonight, feel free to point and laugh at me, then we can all lynch Lucky. Until that happens, though, I'm assuming the worst.I quit if there's a Vampire Lord. *cuts wrists*
So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :DWe can't check Lucky's alignment that way. It goes both way between them.
If Lucky flips town then Blue is most likely third-party, possibly mafia.
If Lucky flips mafia then Blue could be either third-party or mafia.
Blue has claimed Lone Vampire so they can't be town in any situation.
I don't believe there's ever been a case of a full alignment switch, but Meph has confirmed it's possible (probably the least likely outcome).
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 05:12:17 pm
TricMagic:facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.
A one-shot protect? You really think that makes it so good?
It's a one-shot? In that case, no thank you. I'd grab the kill instead and save it for MYLO/LYLO. That way I can kill the other one during the night since I can't be nightkilled. Or as a confirmation of LO in this particular case.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 05:15:03 pm
So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :D
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 05:17:33 pm
So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :D
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
TricMagic. Reason: lying repeatedly and wasting everyone's fucking time.
Post by: Mamobo on March 02, 2021, 05:19:15 pm
Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254150#msg8254150) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254165#msg8254165) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254167#msg8254167) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254168#msg8254168) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254171#msg8254171) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254172#msg8254172) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254173#msg8254173) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254192#msg8254192) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254202#msg8254202) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254206#msg8254206) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254209#msg8254209) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254242#msg8254242) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254275#msg8254275) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254278#msg8254278) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254284#msg8254284) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254326#msg8254326) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254329#msg8254329) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254386#msg8254386) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254597#msg8254597) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254598#msg8254598) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254610#msg8254610) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254614#msg8254614) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254617#msg8254617) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254620#msg8254620) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254629#msg8254629) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254651#msg8254651) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254675#msg8254675) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254681#msg8254681) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254683#msg8254683) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254705#msg8254705) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254710#msg8254710) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254720#msg8254720) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254730#msg8254730) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254737#msg8254737) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254738#msg8254738) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254746#msg8254746) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254750#msg8254750) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254755#msg8254755) Last post was less than an hour ago.
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254182#msg8254182) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254183#msg8254183) Last post was 31 hours ago.
Caz - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254744#msg8254744) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254756#msg8254756) Last post was less than an hour ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254299#msg8254299) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254527#msg8254527) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254541#msg8254541) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254543#msg8254543) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254561#msg8254561) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254619#msg8254619) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254642#msg8254642) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254652#msg8254652) Last post was 5 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254057#msg8254057) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254072#msg8254072) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254471#msg8254471) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254481#msg8254481) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254622#msg8254622) Last post was 6 hours ago.
Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254511#msg8254511) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254520#msg8254520) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254600#msg8254600) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254605#msg8254605) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254607#msg8254607) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254729#msg8254729) Last post was 1 hour ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254131#msg8254131) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254190#msg8254190) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254191#msg8254191) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254207#msg8254207) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254215#msg8254215) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254241#msg8254241) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254244#msg8254244) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254320#msg8254320) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254328#msg8254328) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254355#msg8254355) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254366#msg8254366) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254522#msg8254522) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254534#msg8254534) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254535#msg8254535) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254553#msg8254553) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254591#msg8254591) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254611#msg8254611) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254649#msg8254649) Last post was 5 hours ago.
Persus13 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254223#msg8254223) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254269#msg8254269) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254294#msg8254294) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254356#msg8254356) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254467#msg8254467) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254603#msg8254603) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254636#msg8254636) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254719#msg8254719) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254721#msg8254721) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254743#msg8254743) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254749#msg8254749) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254758#msg8254758) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Toaster - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254056#msg8254056) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254060#msg8254060) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254063#msg8254063) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254321#msg8254321) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254323#msg8254323) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254420#msg8254420) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254478#msg8254478) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254747#msg8254747) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254751#msg8254751) Last post was less than an hour ago.
ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254064#msg8254064) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254159#msg8254159) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254166#msg8254166) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254169#msg8254169) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254203#msg8254203) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254204#msg8254204) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254211#msg8254211) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254358#msg8254358) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254363#msg8254363) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254373#msg8254373) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254415#msg8254415) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254450#msg8254450) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254468#msg8254468) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254589#msg8254589) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254590#msg8254590) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254595#msg8254595) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254602#msg8254602) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254608#msg8254608) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254612#msg8254612) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254613#msg8254613) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254632#msg8254632) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254645#msg8254645) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254690#msg8254690) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254739#msg8254739) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254742#msg8254742) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254759#msg8254759) Last post was less than an hour ago.
TricMagic - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254197#msg8254197) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254199#msg8254199) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254239#msg8254239) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254255#msg8254255) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254256#msg8254256) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254272#msg8254272) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254281#msg8254281) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254609#msg8254609) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254631#msg8254631) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254637#msg8254637) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254643#msg8254643) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254653#msg8254653) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254703#msg8254703) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254706#msg8254706) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254709#msg8254709) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254761#msg8254761) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254762#msg8254762) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Vector - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253475#msg8253475) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254062#msg8254062) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254068#msg8254068) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254289#msg8254289) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254351#msg8254351) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254391#msg8254391) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254455#msg8254455) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254479#msg8254479) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254483#msg8254483) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254485#msg8254485) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254647#msg8254647) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254672#msg8254672) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254678#msg8254678) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254682#msg8254682) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254694#msg8254694) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254736#msg8254736) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254752#msg8254752) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254763#msg8254763) Last post was less than an hour ago.
webadict - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254070#msg8254070) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254193#msg8254193) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254365#msg8254365) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254387#msg8254387) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254400#msg8254400) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254434#msg8254434) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254533#msg8254533) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254556#msg8254556) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254757#msg8254757) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 05:20:08 pm
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 05:21:59 pm
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
I got nothing, sorry.
(also, still reading through day 2 now, you guys talked a lot. I must be less up to date than I thought bc I didn't see Bluarian claim lone vampire.)
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 05:25:17 pm
Post by: Mamobo on March 02, 2021, 05:25:25 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254649#msg8254649),
Caz - 1 - BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254182#msg8254182),
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Luckyowl - 4 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254637#msg8254637), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254203#msg8254203), Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254729#msg8254729), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254652#msg8254652),
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254471#msg8254471),
Toaster - 1 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254365#msg8254365),
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 1 - Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254763#msg8254763),
Vector - 1 - Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254478#msg8254478),
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 3 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254710#msg8254710), Caz,
Day ends on March 03, 2021 at 19:00 CST (~26 hours remaining).
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 05:25:34 pm
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
I got nothing, sorry.
(also, still reading through day 2 now, you guys talked a lot. I must be less up to date than I thought bc I didn't see Bluarian claim lone vampire.)
It's in their 2nd post.
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 05:26:16 pm
I'm actually impressed that over half the town posted within the last hour.
But the only way you could know they are town is.... :o
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 05:26:24 pm
Pretty sure we banned night-PM flavor solving after the fuckery that was Paranormal 26.So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :D
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 05:29:13 pm
So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :D
I did actually send something in last night. Care to give a few snippets of these random dreams? Something that sticks out to you.
TricMagic. Reason: lying repeatedly and wasting everyone's fucking time.
Freaking. Did you just skip the earlier post about it equating to No Action? Cause I didn't have any. So what if I added something a little extra to it for this exact possibility.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 05:29:50 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 02, 2021, 05:33:59 pm
Caz's role can't be confirmed, which is the issue with multiple Dreamwalkers. Of note is that Juice was part of the lynch on Blue, is there any role that allows you to steal the abilities of others?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 05:34:44 pm
Caz, no flavor to give at all? Really?
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 05:36:44 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 05:38:57 pm
I doubt the answer will be yes though. Also, its entirely possible that he didn't get your dreams Tric and someone else is a Witch or a Knight, or some other role that doesn't have/didn't take night actions.
facepalms Town as in the collective group of players, not the alignment.I'm actually impressed that over half the town posted within the last hour.
But the only way you could know they are town is.... :o
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 05:40:53 pm
facepalms Town as in the collective group of players, not the alignment.
-.- so touchy.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2021, 05:42:54 pm
To the equivalent of no action. Given flavor-solving is apparently banned for whatever reason, I just wrote a diary entry on my thoughts. (I was wondering if a dreamwalker would see it.)Flavor solving is permitted for some things, like determining which specific scum team you're up against by the dead body flavor. Confirming your actions as true based on the personal night action flavor you received, a la Para 26 and the dog, really shouldn't be legal, and I'm pretty sure that was the majority opinion postgame there.
Caz's role can't be confirmed, which is the issue with multiple Dreamwalkers. Of note is that Juice was part of the lynch on Blue, is there any role that allows you to steal the abilities of others?
I doubt the answer will be yes though. Also, its entirely possible that he didn't get your dreams Tric and someone else is a Witch or a Knight, or some other role that doesn't have/didn't take night actions.I don't take actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 02, 2021, 05:46:00 pm
Meph: If a player asked for night flavor, would a dreamwalker be able to see that flavor?
Dreamwalker gets the Night Result PM of another player, if that player received one. Otherwise they just get random dream stuff.
Mechanically, no, I would not do a 'flavor result PM' like that. Dreamwalker is supposed to be both useful as a role and as a fakeclaim. Letting people get dreamwalker confirmation PMs like that would break things.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 06:23:02 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 06:44:16 pm
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 07:08:56 pm
So, let's start off with 4maskwolf.
4maskwolf
4maskwolf is more Town than almost anyone in this game. I'm not a fan of the Luckyowl push, but it's an extremely mechanical play, and completely within character for... I was gonna say Town!4mask, but... uh, well. Regardless, 4maskwolf has a good reason to continue the attack on Luckyowl because a dual conversion is an effective plan. Super active, and appears to be hashing out ideas with NQT. I think my last read on NQT might have been affecting my brain too much, so I'm gonna give NQT a much better rundown than whatever I was thinking last night/this morning.
4maskwolf has claimed not to be the Devil, so we're now at a grand total of 3 third parties. I have no idea what a Devil does or why they're good/bad, but whatever. Not my problem.
4maskwolf believes that the scum team is not a Vampire Cult. I am in agreement with this statement, as is NQT. I believe that a Vampire Cult would be an impossible summit to climb in this game. 2 Survivors actually indicates a smaller scumteam as well, so there is massive evidence to back these claims up.
4maskwolf wants juicebox/Caz's dream. Mechanical standpoint.
Overall judgment: Certified Town Survivor. Still 0% Town, but an honorary 90% Town. Would prefer less mechanics behind their decision because it feels like they'll attempt to turn on the Town with it when they decide the ship has sunk, but so far they're not actively throwing the lifeboats over yet, so I'd still be apt to agree with their decisions. Very active, and lots of discussion.
BluarianKnight
Bluarian is proven to have been Town before the flop, so I'm inclined to believe their conversion to Lone Vampire (which relies on Luckyowl). Bluarian Knight has posted twice, though, so they're not exactly going to help find scum. Honestly, this is like, the opposite of what I want to see in a player.
Overall, I want to see more from Blue. I think that voting for Blue is an easy vote, though, and not in a good way.
Overall judgment: 0% Town, with an honorary 60% Scum. Gonna be honest, if we ever want to off a third party, I say it should be Bluarian first. Lone Vampires can roleblock if I'm not mistaken, so it's possible we could use them to potentially Nightgame if needed, but I'd much rather see them Daygame.
Caz
Woah there, juicebox gets a replacement. juicebox was definitely my top scumpick from Yesterday, so very interested to see how Caz pulls this out of the gutter.
Caz's posts today aren't impressive just yet.
Caz claims random dreams... That's, uh, not exactly helpful. We already know that two players don't take actions.
Other than that, I''m waiting on some major Caz action.
Overall judgment: 80% Scum. Honestly, this is a very preliminary assessment, so I'm gonna wait until we get some Caz reads to lock that in.
IcyTea31
IcyTea31's general thoughts are probably the most useful of the post because they're typically directed nowhere in particular. I believe that IcyTea31 doesn't like that Jim, Toony, Vector, and I had essentially discounted each other as being scum. For the my part, my justification is simple: ToonyMan and Jim Groovester played actively and their reads made logical sense for a Day 1. That, in itself, should be enough to say that they're definitely not elimination-worthy. The goal is that activity is king, and the more activity you have, the easier it is to read a player's moves. Vector, on the other hand, is very much a stealth bomber. Reading Vector is something of an art form, and thus sometimes it is best not done at all. If I leave Vector in the Town, Vector will probably murder me and then claim my words. Or maybe they won't, Vector likes to toy with me, and it's just a real shame.
But, my complain against Toaster is that I think that their attack on Jim Groovester was incredibly silly, and cost them significant Town equity. The problem is that when you've committed to an attack against Jim Groovester when they're being Town... Well, it costs you points. This doesn't really need to exist here because it'll be going in the Toaster read.
It feels like IcyTea is proceeding extremely cautiously today, and for that I'd like to put that higher up in the scumread than Yesterday. They've left a vote on Luckyowl, but I don't exactly see them using it wisely. Honestly, I'd be harsher, but they're right in that I definitely wasn't participating at full force Today. However, now they won't have that excuse.
Overall judgment: 55% Scum. I'd like to see their take on Luckyowl, and if they're really worth voting. I believe they could be a good candidate to potentially convert from the pool of non-core players because they don't stand out particularly well. Not impressed but also not depressed by their play. Must see more.
Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester hasn't had much content on Day 2, so they're truly relying hard on their Day 1 read. Day 1, they were my lock Town player, but Day 2 they've been defending their... I'd say lurking, but I don't think they were lurking, but it feels like they think they were lurking, which is probaboyl slightly scummier.
Their stance on how Today feels definitely matches what I was feeling. Regardless, they're getting knocked out of first place by... 4maskwolf? They're definitely feeling a bit differently from Yesterday, but is that because of Day 1.5? Still probably not a good vote target just yet because they'll probably draw an inspect.
There just isn't a lot to work with Jim Groovester Today.
Overall judgment: 75% Town. Moving them down a bit because can't be sure they weren't converted. If they don't post something good Today, I'll take them out of Towncore and mark them off as the convert.
Luckyowl
Look, I'm gonna be super biased here because I am almost positive that Luckyowl is both Town AND was not converted last Night. However, I'm not sure what order a Devil happens in. Based on the research I just did, I think a Devil's bargain happen first, so I think I have to undo some assumptions I made. Anyway, let's analyze.
Luckyowl's first post is an OMGUS against the Towniest(?) player in the game, and it's not a good look for them. Luckyowl claims that a Devil visited them, a claim that I think should be supported by meta analysis of the Day starting time and by the fact. Finding the Devil now isn't a main concern here, but if I had to guess, this points significantly towards ToonyMan. Which would clear them from being scum. I think. However, ToonyMan denies this, so what the heck do I know?
There's never a lot to analyze for Luckyowl. I thought they were Town Yesterday, and they're proven that they rezzed Today. The question is whether anyone would convert Luckyowl... And the answer is a pretty resounding no, not likely, unless you're going for super ultimate WIFOM players.
My biggest concern about Luckyowl is that they're likely going to coast until endgame and we're gonna be stuck in a Luckylo. But, I'm still willing to Townlean them. Or maybe we won't because Luckyowl is trying to pull the ol' vote yourself thing that Blue tried! You know what, I have a sneaking suspicion that it might end in their death.
Overall judgment: Still 65% Town. I wish Luckyowl would attempt bigger reads and not hang back so much because they're hampering Town and never realize it.
notquitethere
Complete and utter scum. Nah, I'm just checking to see if you're reading this, but probably only NQT is. I believe my biases are showing in that I will always think their elimination is helpful. Looks like I left them at null Yesterday, and I remember why now. They started out scummy and pulled out some interesting reading material later on. Well, if they're null, fine, I'll start them, off at square one.
I agreed with their first post, but I've already said that. I'm still under the impression that one of ToonyMan or Jim Groovester are 85% the converted player with a 5% on Vector and a 5% on NQT, and maybe an extra 5% on someone else. But, they're pulling the same mechanical angle that 4maskwolf is pulling, and my guess is that they're aiming for a fullclaim from everyone. Their voting angle is very much PoE right now, as their vote on Toaster shows it.[Post #614] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254131#msg8254131)
But, they've got the same problem that 4maskwolf has, in that all of their posts are heavily mechanical geared, but they don't have the fallback of being third party like 4mask does.
Oh, and look, once they're satisfied with Toaster, they move to IcyTea31[Post#663] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254328#msg8254328), who was the only other player who hadn't claimed yet in their pool.
Alright, if I have to think of this from Town!NQT's perspective, this has a chance of being an investigative motive, but I feel like it's missing too many people. They've jumped onto Luckyowl next, and that could be a way to just collect information, but... I feel like that's just too easy of a vote, especially since they've jumped off of juicebox.
If their goal is to find the Cult Leader, they've suddenly changed their tune. It feels absolutely like their mechanically nailing down the Town PRs and threat assessing. They've even shifted away from their juicebox FoS.
Oh, and they voted Bluarian at the end for activity.
Overall judgment: 70% Scum. Absolutely lowering NQT for their takes Today. While they're super active, they're super mechanical-focused. I can't think of Town!NQT acting like how they're acting Today. Perhaps they were converted? I think there's ample evidence to support that. Perhaps they're the converter? There's less evidence of that. Hm. Regardless, I still by what tired me said on a hunch.
Oh my god, I'm gonna take a bit of a break. Sorry guys for a huge wall.
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 07:09:01 pm
Okay, I get it. My current guess is that Luckyowl is overly competent in decision making. I'll retract my question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254602#msg8254602) here.QuoteWhy wouldn't the scumteam accept the same deal?I think they would, my guess is that Lucky is lying about declining.
So Lucky is being competent in refusing a devil's deal but they're also lying about making the competent choice? Ie they made an incompetent choice? :L
Well this is fun. Trying to write a read list and putting basically everyone down as scummy. Skimmed some previous games, standard confusion. (Also in skimming the info from previous Supernatural games I discovered that I played one in 2013. Well ain't that fucking disconcerting. I didn't even IN in this game originally because 'I didn't know the setup.' ....) Also I can't find a lot of info about devils so far. A third party that wins by getting players to agree to deals, right?
Here's my thought process. Toony made an argument that Meph wouldn't use true cults, and the "most likely" is that there was no kill because someone used a one-shot conversion. NQTs reasoning on why it isn't a vampire cult seems sound. No one is gonna use a one-shot convert on LO (sorry :D) imo the converted is going to be one of the least lynchable players, ie Toonyman, webadict, Vector. (But really, it's Toaster.) I think Icytea is the Devil, mostly cause they don't seem that concerned about the game. Jim is quiet, but "life stuff", Tric is annoying. Web ISN'T annoying, which strikes me as uncharacteristic.
...Why is LuckyOwl voting for themselves? It looks like they're copying the 'vote self and get out of jail free through pity' that BK pulled off earlier. Why do this?
Toaster
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens.
Why encourage town to panic? It's the easy way to turn off the smart part of your brain. Only scum would want this.
This isn't my final readslist btw, this is my "I just read the whole thread twice and now my eyes aren't the correct shape" readslist:
town
Jim Groovester - still stuck in the bastard paranormal glory days. but probably town. no one who habitually listens to the snk soundtrack could be mafia.
Persus13 - gut town. ;_: how wicked to be untrue
Luckyowl - with horror, i think they're still town.
TricMagic - annoying. werebear is basically a miller, AGAIN
neutral
notquitethere - needs more graphs. a town nqt would have flowcharts. a town nqt would care. probably Devil.
4maskwolf - 3rd party, acts if they post enough town stuff they will become a real boy. that's a pinnochio reference, btw.
webadict - neutral. like a tortilla chip.
BluarianKnight - seems to have lost the will to play after d1? either way, 3rd party
scum
Toaster - can toast ever be bread again?
ToonyMan - :@:@ toony too towny to be towny. i jest, but tbh, there's a lot more suspiciousness now that i read through it.
IcyTea31 - 3rd party devil or scum
Vector - obvscum*
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 07:12:04 pm
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 07:34:45 pm
Web ISN'T annoying, which strikes me as uncharacteristic.I resent that take.
Is there any reasons for why each person is in their respective groups? You're giving reads, but they're lacking backing.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 07:56:59 pm
I'm also feeling Icy as the devil.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 08:05:41 pm
@Webadict: If I had to throw down right now, I would say I'm like 73% sure that NQT is the converter. I'm happy to provide reasoning in a bit, but. Yeah. Very strong feelings that it's NQT.I'm not gonna say you're wrong because NQT has built up a lot of scum equity Today. Scum? For sure. Converter? I'm less sure of that one. But, we don't necessarily have to for sure hit the converter Today. We can just hit scum and work with that. I consider hitting the converter as a bonus prize at this point.
I'm also feeling Icy as the devil.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 08:18:23 pm
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2021, 08:44:37 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 02, 2021, 08:52:20 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 02, 2021, 09:01:17 pm
BluarianKnight: 1: notquitethere
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Caz: 1: BluarianKnight
Luckyowl: 4: IcyTea31, Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Vector
Persus13: 1: Jim Groovester
Toaster: 1: webadict
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. You have ~23 hours left.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 09:21:55 pm
Persus13/Secretdorf
So, Yesterday they got a super pass. I had them Yesterday at a pretty high scumread.
Persus13 left off Yesterday with a Toaster vote, but I want to see where they end up Today.
Persus13 starts out with a vote on IcyTea31, and some very minor sus on juicebox. Honestly not entirely sure what their take on juicebox is, but they definitely feel like they left the Toaster wagon. That's... good or bad. That points towards a Toaster/Persus13 x/x affiliation.
Persus13 is worried about guessing the scumteam, but that seems... really odd because Mephansteras said all roles are regifts, so a scumteam that matches one of the games is the most likely outcome. Like, I know I put 5 SKs in once, but that's definitely less of a Mephansteras thing.
Persus13 says they'd pick me for conversion. I, frankly, think that's logical choice, and it's at least somewhat genuine.
Persus13 votes Jim Groovester because their posts seem off. They're joining in the pressure with 4maskwolf. I... don't really feel the point behind it. They've still got their case on Toaster to work with, no?
Overall judgment: So, I'm actually gonna go out on a limb here and say that Persus13 drops slightly on the scum radar, down to 60% Scum on the condition that their probably alignment matched to Toaster. I'd normally be more suspicious of them, but it's also possible that it's role-related. If either flips scum, then add scum equity to the other. I'm not seeing a lot out of them, and that leans into both either scum or cop. They're not very pushy on a case so far, and I'd probably be harder on it if I weren't doing the same thing.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 09:35:07 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 10:06:44 pm
Persus13 is worried about guessing the scumteam, but that seems... really odd because Mephansteras said all roles are regifts, so a scumteam that matches one of the games is the most likely outcome. Like, I know I put 5 SKs in once, but that's definitely less of a Mephansteras thing.This I take issue with. I didn't say don't guess the scumteam, I said don't try and assume what Meph's thinking. There's a difference. The first relies on past information to make predictions, the other is making assumptions about what an individual is thinking at this moment in time. The first is reliable, the second is not.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 10:13:51 pm
You specifically directed this towards guessing the scumteam:Persus13 is worried about guessing the scumteam, but that seems... really odd because Mephansteras said all roles are regifts, so a scumteam that matches one of the games is the most likely outcome. Like, I know I put 5 SKs in once, but that's definitely less of a Mephansteras thing.This I take issue with. I didn't say don't guess the scumteam, I said don't try and assume what Meph's thinking. There's a difference. The first relies on past information to make predictions, the other is making assumptions about what an individual is thinking at this moment in time. The first is reliable, the second is not.
NQT and 4mask, I'm a bit worried you all are trying too much to outguess Meph here. I do agree that there are possibilities outside of full-blown Vampire Cult. If someone did block someone last night for instance, they should probably do so again to verify.
And if Blu's actually a Lone Vampire, he can start blocking people as well.
The reply seems most directed at 4maskwolf's posts:
Supernatural 1 Werewolf Leader
Supernatural 2 Cult Sexton
Supernatural 3 N/A (two player team)
Supernatural 4 N/A (two player team)
Supernatural 5 Werewolf Knight
Supernatural 6 Charismatic Cultist and Cult Knight
Supernatural 7 N/A (one player team)
Supernatural 8 Cult Leader
Supernatural 9 N/A (two player team)
I made an assertion yesterday that in the standard-style 3-person scumteams Meph always puts a "designated killer" role to carry the NK.
Utterly irrelevant atm but I'm bored and its interesting to know that my observation is accurate.
I don't really see what else you might've been referring to. Could you elaborate?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:14:22 pm
Spoiler: Day 1 Reads (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 1 Reads (click to show/hide)
Day 2 Reads
Not as much movement as between Day 1 and Night 1, but there's a couple things.
Webadict is who I feel is most likely converted if it's not Jim or Luckyowl. Their play in Day 2 has been very odd and aloof. At least they're making reads now. Leaving where they are for now...could genuinely just be not getting sleep.
Jim is in the same boat as Web. If it's not Lucky or Webadict I think the converter would nab Jim. Similarly to Web they haven't had anything to say. They're keeping their case on Persus (similar to me keeping my case on Lucky).
Lucky has been incredibly anti-town this entire game. The converter would get a possible twofer if they converted Lucky, but I'm more convinced they've been scum since D1. Most of my points are here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254589#msg8254589) It's also been shown that Lucky is lying about information he supposedly received from Meph. Even if it's a misunderstanding he won't even try to clear it up, it's bad dude.
Juicebox/Caz is very scummy and can't provide any Dreamwalker info. I have a case on them. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254064#msg8254064) This is meta but I think replacing out silently is a scumtell too.
I've liked NQT so far this day...I sussed them but I think they're leaning town. Stays in weak town.
I've agreed with IcyTea this day and I think they're trying. Stays.
TricMagic...dumb town, I'm going to put them at the bottom of my weak town list though so slightly down.
I've been okay with Toaster so far, they seem town, going to move up to Neutral. Still suspect enough to lynch. I would probably convert them, but I don't think most players would.
Still have no read on Persus...I'm willing to believe they aren't scum, but I'm okay with their lynch, same boat as Toaster.
Haven't seen anything particularly suspicious with Vector, the main thing is this bizarre TricMagic vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254763#msg8254763). I feel like their vote cases have all been policy lynches. Feel pretty confident they've been scum since D1. This means the D1 scumteam would at least include Vector. That's what I'm feeling.
Still confident 4maskwolf is a Wererat like they claim. They're the first player to vote me in this game which I generally find to be a towntell...or in this case a notscumtell.
BluarianKnight is either a Lone Vampire like they claim or lying third-party/scum. I'm willing to believe they're a Lone Vampire for now. Having two survivors is pretty groan-inducing since they'll betray us if we play bad.
My Devil pick would be either IcyTea, NQT, Persus, or less likely Toaster.
Strong Town
Webadict (0, strong suspect as possible N1 convert)
Jim Groovester (0, strong suspect as possible N1 convert)
Weak Town
IcyTea (0)
NQT (0)
TricMagic (-0.5)
Neutral
Persus13 (0)
Toaster (+0.5)
Scum
Vector (0, don't have a solid case but suspicious nonetheless)
Juicebox/Caz (0, built case)
Luckyowl (-2, built case)
Third-Party
4maskwolf (0)
BluarianKnight (0)
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 10:33:30 pm
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 10:35:04 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 10:38:44 pm
I don't really see what else you might've been referring to. Could you elaborate?
This post is literally almost entirely based off "I don't think Meph would do this":
Couple things, Toaster.I've seen games lost solely based on "I don't think the mod would do this". Rereading the context I can see where you're coming from but I WOULD NEVER say don't analyze past games and you should know better than that given that's been what I've been doing for this entire game.
One: two of the cult-types (charismatic cult and dark magus) are one-shot converts, therefore finding the converter is essentially a moot point at this point (at least as far as stopping conversions go). The third, vampires, which are a true cult and thus a worthwhile converter to find... This is probably a little angly, but I don't think we're looking at one just from a "evolving Bay12 meta" perspective. Full cults are really obnoxious to play into; full cults that keep the roles of people they convert are absolutely brutal. And, largely, over the years full cults have fallen out of favor and have been replaced by one-shot conversions for games that want to keep a bit of a cult flavor or give the wolves a little extra power. I'm pretty sure that a full cult hasn't been seen in supernatural since Supernatural 4 for a reason, and that Meph's experiments with the charismatic cult and dark magus were in part ways to try and work around the fundamental issues of a proper cult.
Personally, I'd argue that it's more likely the kill got blocked in some way last night than that we have an old-school vampire cult on our hands.
Two: Tricmagic has claimed knight, though whether you believe that claim or still think he's a softing werebear is up to you. Regardless, knight is a not-terrible fakeclaim for a converter because it discourages SK kills and doesn't have any difficult fake claims to keep up and I'd argue he belongs one level lower on the "who's the converter" scale.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 10:42:51 pm
@ToonyMan: If Luckyowl is scum, then there definitely wasn't a conversion last Night unless you think Meph gave a two-man scumteam a conversion and a rez, which is a two person swing. That's on top of the two other third parties in the game. Is that what you're proposing? Because I think that's pretty unbalanced if it is.Fair point...I am willing to vote not Lucky if they play the game. This would at least show to me they aren't staying quiet for scum's benefit. A town player shouldn't be afraid of posting.
(Also, while I am not getting enough sleep, I would prefer you just assume I am and don't cut me slack for it.)If it's any reconciliation I suspect you over Jim as a convert.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 10:59:36 pm
Toaster
Hoo boy, this one's gonna be bad, I can feel it. See, Toaster's in a bad way. They've got lots of connections to the scummiest players, and they haven't fallen out of that hole yet. I liked their readlist Yesterday, but I wonder if their play holds up Today.
Was the first to point out that this was a cult, so that's like kinda scum equity, but also a null. Just the "I hate cults" thing is a scummy thing to say. Not much is said until their large post detailing their reads for who's the Converter. Looks mostly correct to me, and nothing immediately stands out as bad. It's just a meh mechanics read.
Ooo, but they continue to do the sucker punch random good post to me that makes it hard to justify them as scum. I also never got around to answering your questions, so:
Webadict:The thing is, I can't justify clearing them as scum because I'm pretty convinced one of them is a convert. The issue is determining which one because I wasn't converted. I also know that Vector would very likely have converted me, and I do not believe that Vector was converted. That's also using the obvious list, which isn't necessarily correct, but it's a good lead at the moment since we can always reread them.
Very convinced throughout D1 that Jim and Toony are town. I'd love to see Web address that view of Has Always Been Town Jim/Toony, and not Potential Convert Jim/Toony, which he addressed here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254365#msg8254365). And sure, yeah, my Top Picks For Convert would be Jim/Toony/Web/Vector shooting from the hip; that's a fairly obvious list to make. But what about reassessing them as cult leader? Would like to see this from Web.
Web, what about TricMagic? Do you still think they're town? I still think you gave me too much grief for holding a vote on him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252522#msg8252522) until he stopped ignoring my question to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252309#msg8252309).
If one of them is the Cult Leader, then, gun to my head, it'd be ToonyMan. I'm still under the assumption that Vector would have converted me. Technically, you could say that Vector is metagaming me pretty hard, but it's not worth the think just yet. If you'd like, feel free to call them less active Today, because they've definitely been less active, but I'm totally willing to shield them Today at least based on that because having...
Oh, I see what you mean now. You're saying ToonyMan and Jim Groovester are Cult Leader and Convert? That's like, the hottest of takes and it's super dangerous. Like... I'm not sure if I could think that one through. That's a Day 3 problem.
Anyway, this post alone raises you up a lot of Town equity. The next two are also great Townleans, and I like that progress is being made. I'll add that I am pretty sure that you're absolutely wrong on Vector, but I think you are right to suspect them.
I think I'll retract my previous scumread for now.
Overall judgment: 60% Town.
Additionally, I'll unvote because Toaster isn't worth eliminating.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 11:02:37 pm
I can accept both of these. I think that it's not incorrect to suspect Luckyowl, but I do think it's incorrect that Luckyowl is scum. Luckyowl certainly needs to contribute or we're gonna be stuck in coinflip mode again.@ToonyMan: If Luckyowl is scum, then there definitely wasn't a conversion last Night unless you think Meph gave a two-man scumteam a conversion and a rez, which is a two person swing. That's on top of the two other third parties in the game. Is that what you're proposing? Because I think that's pretty unbalanced if it is.Fair point...I am willing to vote not Lucky if they play the game. This would at least show to me they aren't staying quiet for scum's benefit. A town player shouldn't be afraid of posting.(Also, while I am not getting enough sleep, I would prefer you just assume I am and don't cut me slack for it.)If it's any reconciliation I suspect you over Jim as a convert.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 11:10:05 pm
Okay, but if that's your take on it, then the safe measure is to eliminate the highest threat level, which is either the Cult Leader, no?I don't really see what else you might've been referring to. Could you elaborate?
This post is literally almost entirely based off "I don't think Meph would do this":Couple things, Toaster.I've seen games lost solely based on "I don't think the mod would do this". Rereading the context I can see where you're coming from but I WOULD NEVER say don't analyze past games and you should know better than that given that's been what I've been doing for this entire game.
One: two of the cult-types (charismatic cult and dark magus) are one-shot converts, therefore finding the converter is essentially a moot point at this point (at least as far as stopping conversions go). The third, vampires, which are a true cult and thus a worthwhile converter to find... This is probably a little angly, but I don't think we're looking at one just from a "evolving Bay12 meta" perspective. Full cults are really obnoxious to play into; full cults that keep the roles of people they convert are absolutely brutal. And, largely, over the years full cults have fallen out of favor and have been replaced by one-shot conversions for games that want to keep a bit of a cult flavor or give the wolves a little extra power. I'm pretty sure that a full cult hasn't been seen in supernatural since Supernatural 4 for a reason, and that Meph's experiments with the charismatic cult and dark magus were in part ways to try and work around the fundamental issues of a proper cult.
Personally, I'd argue that it's more likely the kill got blocked in some way last night than that we have an old-school vampire cult on our hands.
Two: Tricmagic has claimed knight, though whether you believe that claim or still think he's a softing werebear is up to you. Regardless, knight is a not-terrible fakeclaim for a converter because it discourages SK kills and doesn't have any difficult fake claims to keep up and I'd argue he belongs one level lower on the "who's the converter" scale.
I think if you want to think like that, then you're gonna have to investigate harder. We'll know for sure Tomorrow, though, but we'd like be hitting Mylo by Day 4, and it'd only get worse from there.
Post by: webadict on March 02, 2021, 11:17:54 pm
For now, I'm replanting my vote on notquitethere. I believe they have a ton of scum equity, and I'd like to see their reads.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2021, 11:20:59 pm
Sorry for the rant. D2 has been a demoralizing, unfun, slog for me, and whoever the scumteam is, they're denying me the msot fun parts of the game.
Post by: Vector on March 02, 2021, 11:27:47 pm
Haven't seen anything particularly suspicious with Vector, the main thing is this bizarre TricMagic vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254763#msg8254763). I feel like their vote cases have all been policy lynches. Feel pretty confident they've been scum since D1. This means the D1 scumteam would at least include Vector. That's what I'm feeling.
So ... voting Jim Groovester (D2), Toaster (D1), Webadict (D1), ICT (D1) and NQT (D1 and D2, current vote), are all policy lynches? *nod nod*, *strokes invisible beard*
Yeah, OK. LOL. Says the man
Regarding the Tric point, I thought that Tric was claiming a third role with an actual action now, as opposed to flavor-actioning. You know, from Werebear to Knight to WTF. And I lost my temper. Oops.
But hey, putting 2 and 2 together from your post. You're seeing a Veckle/Lucky scumteam since D1 and don't think we have a cult. Is that right?
We're screwed, Lucky! Completely screwed! ToonyMan's caught us! :P
I'm certain its not NQT
Wait, why's that?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 02, 2021, 11:45:44 pm
Your votes on Lucky and TricMagic were policy lynches.Haven't seen anything particularly suspicious with Vector, the main thing is this bizarre TricMagic vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254763#msg8254763). I feel like their vote cases have all been policy lynches. Feel pretty confident they've been scum since D1. This means the D1 scumteam would at least include Vector. That's what I'm feeling.So ... voting Jim Groovester (D2), Toaster (D1), Webadict (D1), ICT (D1) and NQT (D1 and D2, current vote), are all policy lynches? *nod nod*, *strokes invisible beard*
Yeah, OK. LOL. Says the mantoonyingtunneling LuckyOwl.
As far as I can tell your vote on NQT is just waiting for them to post more delicious analysis.
You've lifted your vote off of Jim multiple times and so quickly that it hardly counts.
I'll give you the Toaster, Web, and IcyTea votes I guess since I'm tired and need to sleep, can't really check fully...
Your vote on Blue was a mislynch:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
juicebox: 3: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, webadict
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
I see a lot of vote hoping and indecision, Vector the Converter.
Regarding the Tric point, I thought that Tric was claiming a third role with an actual action now, as opposed to flavor-actioning. You know, from Werebear to Knight to WTF. And I lost my temper. Oops.Fair enough, I believe this.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 12:01:58 am
Juicebox? Lurker. Lucky? LYLO coinflip, also wanted to sit out D1. BK? Self-voter.
Come back when you have more, and I challenge you again: I've been on a scumteam with Lucky since D1? I chose not to NK, or tried to NK someone who was protected, or got RBed and no one claimed, hey, no NK, and funny enough, I blocked Veckle? Oh, and possibly the best of them all: Lucky is playing as though they're being coached by Vector and has been the entire time. These are the implications of your statement. Do they make sense to you?
OK, here's the other option. I'm Vector the Converter, and last night, I decided to convert ... Lucky. Lucky, the player with a spent one-shot resurrect. Yeah! Sure, let's convert Lucky for the Memes and the WIFOM! And then let's encourage them to self-vote! Awesome!!! That's gonna go well!
And no, the vote on NQT is serious. I'm going to wait until tomorrow morning to see what shakes out, and then I'll lay my case.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 12:07:10 am
So... can't we check LO's alignment by lynching BluarianKnight again? :D
In short, no. The alignment of the ressed player is not indicative of the alignment of the priest, per word-of-Mod.
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens.
Why encourage town to panic? It's the easy way to turn off the smart part of your brain. Only scum would want this.
I don't want town to panic. I want them to think about priorities. Converter is still scum; lynching them is still good. Yes, list off otherwise scum candidates, but let's nip the converter before it's too late, unless of course we get hard evidence to think otherwise.
Your reads have zero evidence.
Vector:
I'm Vector the Converter, and last night, I decided to convert ... Lucky. Lucky, the player with a spent one-shot resurrect.
...which Meph confirmed would have counted as Converter Cult Res.
There is exactly one vote in that tally sheet on someone who could not, at EoD, have been described as a policy lynch: Toaster.
I resent my vote on BK being counted as a policy lynch. I made my case on him. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252818#msg8252818)
Web: I eagerly await your read of TricMagic.
Unless something changes big time, I should be around for day end tomorrow.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 12:26:25 am
I also had stuff on BK, but, whatever 9_9
...which Meph confirmed would have counted as Converter Cult Res.
I guess you're right, I could have asked Meph secretly before it was publicly revealed today whether recruiting Lucky would also potentially net me Blue, thus giving me two self-voters for the price of one, or possibly Lucky converted + Blu rezzed by Impious Lucky, giving me a self-voter with no powers (cult) and a self-voter (possibly of my preferred alignment, possibly another thorn in my ass) who everyone would automatically suspect.
People are throwing around a lot of resentment my way, so why don't I give it a try. I resent the implication that I would try to convert LO in order to possibly net me BK (the person everyone wanted to lynch + the person who actually was lynched) when I could get a strong player, possibly with a good PR as opposed to a used-up one, and a dead townie. Those extra votes don't do me any good if they're being used for suicide.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2021, 01:11:07 am
If webadict were scum I think he would just go to sleep. Making in depth reads on every single player is way too much effort to justify if you are both tired and scum. That said, I still don't trust myself to read him correctly in any situation.
I'm liking Toaster more on Day 2 than I did on Day 1.
I'm liking ToonyMan less on Day 2 than I did on Day 1.
I'm liking Persus13 slightly more than when he replaced in. Going to unvote Persus13.
I likely won't be around for the Chinese Fire Drill tomorrow, so when you guys do that make sure you end up picking scum.
ToonyMan: Fine, you want to think I'm scum because I'm a compulsive liar. Sure. go ahead. luckyowl let's see if I'm lying.
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Actually, why would this question even matter but for trying to lynch me 4maskwolf. I really am an easy target, a knight who can't be nightkilled and is likely to extend the game if lynched. Very Survivor. (Even if you do win by surviving, if you never aim at scum you won't die.)
It is so obnoxiously evident that this is your town meta.
Actually, after rereading Jim Groovestar's posts this game, I'm going to vote him for now. Jim, what was your case on Blu again?
Didn't you just reread my posts? Why are you asking this? I thought I was clear.
I voted him for being inauthentic, oddly people pleasing, falling on his sword about his bad play. On two occasions he was pressed by Toaster and myself and was asked to clarify his cases, and he answered twice with something completely unrelated to what he was asked on. Generally being more concerned about how he appeared over finding scum.
I don't think I was wrong about him but he obviously wasn't scum.
Just an idle thought. Problem solving third parties is something scum does too, although I'll agree that its not super relevant here.
Bleh, I miss the old Lurkertracker.
It's a stupid thing and not super meaningful but making this observation makes me feel better about you.
General thoughts
I don't entirely understand the cases on Toaster right now. It looks to be a process-of-elimination type case from most people on it, but that doesn't make sense, when several veterans had put each other in the "read later" pile. I think it's too early for a PoE. If I had to build a case on Toaster, I'd start with the aloof attitude rather than maths, and even that's something Toaster has had in past games as town, or perhaps assuming that a veteran would convert Toaster as a joke. I don't really have any specific complaints about their play, myself.
I don't think many people have put together cases on Toaster, so whose cases were you thinking of when you said this?
do you think Juice could be the devil?Possibly. I think it's likely that it's someone active and closely familiar with Luckyowl's psychology. Offering "help to looking like town" is a less impactful offer than I'd expect from an experienced player, however. This profile could fit juice, minus the activity, but someone like Toaster or TricMagic would be a closer fit.
I don't think hunting the devil is a high priority right now, though.
You point this out but let it go. I doubt I'm following the exchange properly, but what do you make of NQT bringing up devil candidates given your commentary that it's not high priority?
People see indications there might be a cult and freak out like "OMG must find converter" to the point where it blinds them to everything else. If there is a cult, they are one-shot and used it last night. The converter can no convert no more people. That's that, nothing more.
ToonyMan, there's merit in your case on Luckyowl, but he's almost certainly not the converter, so why are you focusing on him?There's a lot we don't know and are assuming. I'm just going to scumhunt. I think it's likely there's a converter but only one-shot. I will vote someone else if I find them scummier.
I see where you guys are coming from, but is it the correct play?
Vampire Lord team is perfectly possible this game. I don't see hunting for a converter role as a priority from a slightly reduced pool of players as incompatible or detrimental to hunting for members of the other, less dangerous scum variants and it mitigates (if we don't suck) the more dangerous scum team variants.
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens. If there's a scum-looking kill tonight, feel free to point and laugh at me, then we can all lynch Lucky. Until that happens, though, I'm assuming the worst.
I'm inclined to agree with Toaster here and will join him in saying feel free to point and laugh at him if he's wrong.
My thinking is that a Vampire Lord is such a red alert all hands on deck situation that D2 needs to steer in the direction that such a thing happens.
Why encourage town to panic? It's the easy way to turn off the smart part of your brain. Only scum would want this.
Vampire Lord is not an invalid scum team for the game type. Shouldn't the town be theorizing about the dangers they could be facing?
I get the arguments about why a full cult is unlikely.
@ToonyMan: If Luckyowl is scum, then there definitely wasn't a conversion last Night unless you think Meph gave a two-man scumteam a conversion and a rez, which is a two person swing. That's on top of the two other third parties in the game. Is that what you're proposing? Because I think that's pretty unbalanced if it is.
This is one example of people pointing out ToonyMan's inconsistencies in pushing his case on Luckyowl. There are others. I think I saw Caz point something out similar.
If I had to gamble I'd say ToonyMan was probably a N1 convert.
Vector the Converter.
If you believe this why is Luckyowl worth voting over Vector?
Gonna post this but dig a little more since I don't want to go to bed tonight without my vote somewhere.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2021, 01:21:01 am
Has notquitethere posted anything resembling a serious suspect during all of Day 2? I don't really see much from his posts except for agreeing with ToonyMan about Luckyowl.
notquitethere, what happened to your juicebox/Caz suspicions from Day 1?
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2021, 01:56:38 am
Gonna post this but dig a little more since I don't want to go to bed tonight without my vote somewhere.
I lied. See you tomorrow.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 03:50:50 am
I'd like to see their take on Luckyowl, and if they're really worth voting.Luckyowl was worth pushing, but now that I've seen their reaction, no longer the most valuable lynch target. You're not wrong that I've been playing carefully.
Quote
Finding the Devil now isn't a main concern here, but if I had to guess, this points significantly towards ToonyMan. Which would clear them from being scum. I think. However, ToonyMan denies this, so what the heck do I know?Nah, I believe it. "Will make you look town" doesn't sound like Toony's voice to me:
They even tried to say it will make me look town...
Toaster
I still think Luckyowl is bad D2 lynch. He's a great N2 Monster Hunter target, but I don't think we have that luxury.Probably, since I'd have done that N1.
Jim Groovester
I don't think many people have put together cases on Toaster, so whose cases were you thinking of when you said this?These:
My gut feeling is that Toaster and Juicebox are scum with a third being between...Lucky/Vector/Persus.
We'll all be kicking ourselves if Toaster is evil in this game again. Why shouldn't we eliminate you, Toast?
If I had to shoot a converter right now, I'd pick Toaster.
Out of these six I suspect Vector, Persus, and Toaster the most.
So, I'd like to propose a Toaster elimination.
I'm suspicious of IcyTea and Toaster for passive play and being reactionary.
Quote
You point this out but let it go. I doubt I'm following the exchange properly, but what do you make of NQT bringing up devil candidates given your commentary that it's not high priority?I think NQT believes figuring out the devil will help narrow down people's roles and alignments, which could point to either alignment. As webadict pointed out here, the mechanical focus can be suspicious:
But, they're pulling the same mechanical angle that 4maskwolf is pulling, and my guess is that they're aiming for a fullclaim from everyone.However, NQT is known for mechanical focus even as town, and the specific situation you asked about is too plausibly deniable to really push: town!NQT and scum!NQT would have given the same response.
General thought
Really don't like Vector's attitude in the series of posts starting from this one:
They didn't have this much sarcasm for anyone but webadict before this.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 04:00:20 am
Really don't like Vector's attitude in the series of posts starting from this one:In fact, I'll do this: Vector.
They didn't have this much sarcasm for anyone but webadict before this.
Call it gut, but Vector has been stealthy this whole game, implying high-power night play. I can't see many hints of such on D2, but there is a loss of focus after the first real day. Add to this veteranship and low suspicion on D1, and you've got a convertee.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 04:27:59 am
Your reads have zero evidence.
You know we have no evidence other than 50 pages of crap, right? I mean I could make a huge post picking apart peoples random sentences to put together a case on how they're definitely scum but it's kinda like making a dragon out of a footprint. It's just going to use up people's time for probably nothing. I'm looking for a case rn, not looking for evidence for a case I already decided for arbitrary reasons. :L
Also yeah my readslist turned into memeing at the end, tiredness :D I would take Persus and Vector off the list completely imo cause I think I consider Persus more town than they are and Vector more scum than they are. I was trying to find reason for this last night. (but really, there is only one thing worth searching for today, and that is the converted imo) Annoying thing about long d1's is that they a lot of the time only become really useful after we have some info to go on. Which we don't. (gotta cut this short now T_T also I DIDN'T READ THE NEXT TWO PAGES YET, so if there's questions etc that's why I didn't respond)
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 04:53:02 am
@NQT:I didn't want to painstakingly count every post to the same equivalent time (which, given people's different schedules might not have been so useful anyway) but I did take a look at the first lurkertracker result (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252944#msg8252944) which came at a similar time, about a day and a half into D1:
How does activity for players compare to this time on Day 1?
Early D1 Post Counts
Most Invested
4maskwolf - 85
ToonyMan - 46
Keen
TricMagic - 31
Vector - 31
webadict - 31
Average
Toaster - 17
IcyTea31 - 16
notquitethere - 16
Sluggish
BluarianKnight - 13
Jim Groovester - 12
juicebox - 12
Luckyowl -12
Absent
Secretdorf - 6
Spoiler: D2 For Comparison (click to show/hide)
So what conclusions can we draw? 4mask and Toony are as comparatively invested as they were on D1. NQT is more invested (no surprise, it's D2, there's more of a puzzle). Tric and Vector are still second-tier poster, so consistent (considering that everyone has less posts). Web has dropped off quite a bit. Blu has dropped off a lot (consistent with no longer being town). SD was absent most of D1, and Persus has clawed up from there to be perfectly average now.
All the lowest posters from D1 are even lower now.
If one of the veteran gang got converted, the activity charts say it was probably Webadict.
Responding to the rest of the thread next, but just thought I'd get that out the way
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:20:16 am
NQT: I'd actually like to ask you to detail your single-target analysis a little more. I love reading your stuff! The high point of every game.That's kind of you to say. It's the same kind of analysis I have done in previous games. I see who tries to get who lynched, discounting certain votes. I will give the full method on D3, like I said, to stop it being gamed, but these were the results from D1:
Spoiler: Unique Non-RVS Targets (click to show/hide)
This is a method for finding town (or not-scum) more than it is a method for finding scum. The rationale here is that town players genuinely suspect a lot of other players. There's discussion on it in the theory thread here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132415.msg4717911#msg4717911) On D1, Vector, Web and Blu were town. Tric, NQT, and 4mask were are all probably not scum (I'm certain about me of course!).
With a due warning that this work is manual so I might have missed something (but I don't think I have), here's how D2 currently stands:
Spoiler: D2 Unique Targets So Far (click to show/hide)
So despite Web's lower post frequency today, he's still up there with most paranoid players- along with the exact same group as D1. Everything else is too low to say anything definite, but it doesn't look good for Jim that he's in the same category as confirmed non-town Blu, shifty priest Lucky, and actually absent most of the day Juice->Caz.
Caz
notquitethere - needs more graphs. a town nqt would have flowcharts. a town nqt would care. probably Devil.Buddy, I have done four different numerical analyses (sentiment analysis, aggregate suspicion, unique post count, thread engagement count) and I've analysed possible scum team compositions based on prior games. I don't see how this read makes any sense whatsoever.
Webadict
I believe my biases are showing in that I will always think their elimination is helpful.Tricking you so completely in two previous games is really coming back to bite me now.
If their goal is to find the Cult Leader, they've suddenly changed their tune. It feels absolutely like their mechanically nailing down the Town PRs and threat assessing. They've even shifted away from their juicebox FoS.I became convinced that we're not facing a vampire cult so hunting the converter doesn't have the same priority. And I shifted off focusing on Juice because Juice wasn't playing! Now I'm back.
I can't think of Town!NQT acting like how they're acting Today.I honestly don't think I've ever been as town!NQT as I have in this game, but I understand that your track record for telling the difference hasn't been great.
SYNTHESIS
Thus far on D2 I've just been poking at players and tinkering with different ways of looking at things. But it's time to try to bring these different insights to bear in a reads list!
TOWN
4maskwolf - In this game I half-suspect 4mask to be deepclaiming wererat when he's actually a seer or something. He's been playing consistently pro-town; highest engagement, good range of suspicions, mechanical puzzle solving, he's trying to figure the game out.
Vector - Vector is town. Nice paranoid spread of votes on D1. Lot's of good push on D2.
ToonyMan - Toony is town. A bit tunnelly to fully put me at ease, but highly engaged in the thread.
TricMagic - Tric is town. Being touchy and fancy playing are all highly consistent with being town.
Persus13/Secretdorf - Persus is town. I'd be lying if I said I was fully happy with Persus/SD's play (especially their wasted voted end of day 1). But the push on them on D1, and their D2 play makes me more confident.
webadict - I think definitely town on D1; slight drop off in post frequency on D2 could mean converted; thread engagement pretty solid; high suspicions count, townish paranoia. Very likely town.
IcyTea31 - Perfectly average play, no great waves. One to keep an eye on. Could go either way. I like their most recent posts more than I like their posts on D1. On balance probably town.
Toaster - Toaster, along with ICT, is just good enough not to be in the lynch pool but not good enough for me to actually know by their actions that they're on my side. These would be prime slots for investigation. On balance, maybe scum but not the priority lynch.
Jim Groovester - Low number of suspects and low post count; curiously the least suspected player on D1, which might actually indicate having scum partners; defended Juice x3 times on D1 which might mean something if Juice flips scum. Basically, on very thin ice and pending informative flips to give more context.
BluarianKnight - Either a third party who could block and kill town players, or scum. A shame because they were a good player on D1 prior to conversion.
Luckyowl - The most suspected player in the game, we will never rest easily until this slot is cleared. Appears to be coached. The best that can be said for Lucky is that they're probably not a converter, but given the converter is one-shot that doesn't matter. Incidentally, a scum!Lucky would rule out Dark Magus.
caz - Juice was highly scummy on D1, with no cases. Their D2 reads are mostly backwards (Vector at the bottom? Jim at the top!). I still want to eliminate this slot.
SCUM
I almost got a Juice lynch on D1. On reflection, I still want one today. Yes, this looks much the same as D1 at the bottom here: Lucky and Juice accumulated so much suspicion that we really can't go into LYLO with either of them. Caz's lack of a dream is not helping them here. Today I would support a Caz, Lucky, or Jim lynch. Blu would be OK to lynch as they're definitely not town, but they're definitely not the OG scumteam and it's possible their block could do some good in the night, assuming we have a kill team, they could block the killer.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:06:27 am
here's how D2 currently stands:Spoiler: D2 Unique Targets So Far (click to show/hide)
Wow, a mystical method that declares yourself as the most townie player. How surprising.
and actually absent most of the day Juice->Caz.
Excuse me? Why lie about this?
Quote
Caznotquitethere - needs more graphs. a town nqt would have flowcharts. a town nqt would care. probably Devil.Buddy, I have done four different numerical analyses (sentiment analysis, aggregate suspicion, unique post count, thread engagement count) and I've analysed possible scum team compositions based on prior games. I don't see how this read makes any sense whatsoever.
No flowcharts = scum (dont take that list seriously pls, im still not done). Sorry, those are the rules. Tbh, you and Icytea rub me in the wrong way this game as basically posting endless data and wall of texts that end up nowhere closer to finding scum. Are you trying to bore town to death? I think it's working.
TOWN
4maskwolf - In this game I half-suspect 4mask to be deepclaiming wererat when he's actually a seer or something. He's been playing consistently pro-town; highest engagement, good range of suspicions, mechanical puzzle solving, he's trying to figure the game out.[/quote]
This is an interesting suspicion. I like the idea that 4mask isn't what he says he is.
Quote
Vector - Vector is town. Nice paranoid spread of votes on D1. Lot's of good push on D2.
ToonyMan - Toony is town. A bit tunnelly to fully put me at ease, but highly engaged in the thread.
TricMagic - Tric is town. Being touchy and fancy playing are all highly consistent with being town.
Persus13/Secretdorf - Persus is town. I'd be lying if I said I was fully happy with Persus/SD's play (especially their wasted voted end of day 1). But the push on them on D1, and their D2 play makes me more confident.
You mean they look town. Why so confident on saying what they are, unless you know? Btw, all these players are easily good at 'looking town', especially in this long day1 that offers no real pressure.
Quote
IcyTea31 - Perfectly average play, no great waves. One to keep an eye on. Could go either way. I like their most recent posts more than I like their posts on D1. On balance probably town.
Toaster - Toaster, along with ICT, is just good enough not to be in the lynch pool but not good enough for me to actually know by their actions that they're on my side. These would be prime slots for investigation. On balance, maybe scum but not the priority lynch.
Which one of these would you prefer to lynch? If you had to choose between them. I think your day1 grievances against Icy seem manufactured, as well as your lack of suspicion for Bluarian day 1. Not enough to stop them from being lynched, mind. Just enough to grow some town cred instead?
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Jim Groovester - Low number of suspects and low post count; curiously the least suspected player on D1, which might actually indicate having scum partners; defended Juice x3 times on D1 which might mean something if Juice flips scum. Basically, on very thin ice and pending informative flips to give more context.
I mean, 4mask is literally the least suspected player, but you seem to love them? Why so different read with the same justifications?
Quote
BluarianKnight - Either a third party who could block and kill town players, or scum. A shame because they were a good player on D1 prior to conversion.
I mean, they weren't. That's why they got lynched. :L This seems very patting yourself on the back for your 'good judgement'.
Quote
Luckyowl - The most suspected player in the game, we will never rest easily until this slot is cleared. Appears to be coached.
...I really don't see this. People keep saying it, though. It just seems like LuckyOwl to me. If they're being coached, their coach is BAD.
Quote
caz - Juice was highly scummy on D1, with no cases. Their D2 reads are mostly backwards (Vector at the bottom? Jim at the top!). I still want to eliminate this slot.
SCUM
Well, I can't defend juice's posts, I agree they looked scummy as shit, but I would behoove you to stop holding them against me. Thanks. :D You can eliminate me at night, if you really want. :-*
Quote
I almost got a Juice lynch on D1. On reflection, I still want one today. Yes, this looks much the same as D1 at the bottom here: Lucky and Juice accumulated so much suspicion that we really can't go into LYLO with either of them. Caz's lack of a dream is not helping them here. Today I would support a Caz, Lucky, or Jim lynch. Blu would be OK to lynch as they're definitely not town, but they're definitely not the OG scumteam and it's possible their block could do some good in the night, assuming we have a kill team, they could block the killer.
Mechanical lynch (no dream, omg!) is lazy. Lucky lynch is lazy. Jim lynch is lol. You look really bad after this post to me.
I have more on other tabs from earlier (this is supposed to be 2nd half of msg, but w/e), I have to break this up in the day, I'm only half-here until evening.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:45:16 am
Wow, a mystical method that declares yourself as the most townie player. How surprising.It's not mystical, it's a long standing part of my scumhunting approach, and if you look at the D1 numbers, it had Vector as most town.
I realise I could have been clearer in presenting this. I only mean to say that Juice wasn't here at all on D2 until you turned up to replace him in the slot. Your activity has been fine since arriving.and actually absent most of the day Juice->Caz.Excuse me? Why lie about this?
Tbh, you and Icytea rub me in the wrong way this game as basically posting endless data and wall of texts that end up nowhere closer to finding scum. Are you trying to bore town to death? I think it's working.You can find it boring, that's your perogative, but I literally just posted a big reads list based on my earlier analysis. We'll see if it gets me any closer to finding scum when you flip, right?
You mean they look town. Why so confident on saying what they are, unless you know? Btw, all these players are easily good at 'looking town', especially in this long day1 that offers no real pressure.I'm very confident in my town reads because they're backed by all the analysis I did before which is most good at finding town players.
Which one of these would you prefer to lynch? If you had to choose between them. I think your day1 grievances against Icy seem manufactured, as well as your lack of suspicion for Bluarian day 1. Not enough to stop them from being lynched, mind. Just enough to grow some town cred instead?How was it manufactured? And what kind of bizarro world argument is this about Blu-- do good town players always and only want to lynch town players?
I mean, 4mask is literally the least suspected player, but you seem to love them? Why so different read with the same justifications?4mask being 3rd party complicates that + 4mask on D1 was not the least suspected player, people even voted him. I collated the reads, Jim really was the least suspected. But anyway, that's not what makes him scum, that's just an interesting fact that might or might not be relevant, I don't know yet: what makes him scum is his slinking.
Mechanical lynch (no dream, omg!) is lazy. Lucky lynch is lazy. Jim lynch is lol. You look really bad after this post to me.How is lynching from the pool of people I find most suspicious lazy?? It's just good play! I don't want to get rid of you because of the lack of the dream, though it doesn't help, it's because Juice was most scum on D1 and your play today hasn't give me sufficient reason to change my mind. Please prove me wrong though!
Explain to me your Vector and Jim reads then, make them make sense.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:51:12 am
Luckyowl, Caz, and Persus. I'd say these three make sense to me as lynches.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:59:55 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 08:02:46 am
NQT, Icytea, Jim, and Toaster. (early day) I can't trust any of you guys. To the point I wouldn't be suprised if we had a 1-man mafia(as werewolf converter, what that role is called) and 1-man cult leader to go along with the devil, and no natural nightkills at the start.(or they both just used a convert.) We apparently have a survivor and a vampire now. Chaso.Why are all three of your lynch choices outside of your "can't trust" list?
Luckyowl, Caz, and Persus. I'd say these three make sense to me as lynches.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 08:06:24 am
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.I'm in fact currently giving you a chance, which is why I haven't butted into your conversation with NQT.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 08:17:36 am
NQT, Icytea, Jim, and Toaster. (early day) I can't trust any of you guys. To the point I wouldn't be suprised if we had a 1-man mafia(as werewolf converter, what that role is called) and 1-man cult leader to go along with the devil, and no natural nightkills at the start.(or they both just used a convert.) We apparently have a survivor and a vampire now. Chaso.Why are all three of your lynch choices outside of your "can't trust" list?
Luckyowl, Caz, and Persus. I'd say these three make sense to me as lynches.
Because I literally can't trust you four. That doesn't make you scum with so many third parties around. If it was third party hunting we needed to do, I'd have a field day. As is these three are my scum picks.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 08:20:24 am
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.
Yeah, I was willing to give you one chance. You completely blew it faster than Persus did. And like him you haven't redeemed that mistake. I've never actually played with you before to my memory, so no clue if this pecking is your playstyle or not. But it doesn't fit well.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 08:23:16 am
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.It's not because juice was lurking, it was his cases. But look, I'd like you to stick around and play (especially if you are town). Tell me about your Vector and Jim reads.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 08:26:27 am
@Jim:
Half of that is to goad Vector. I am suspicious enough to vote them over the WIFOM spewing if Lucky decides to play. I seriously don't want to play if there's a full cult.
@Caz:
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.I understand your grievances and it feels genuine. Lucky isn't even trying compared to you, it pisses me off.
@TricMagic:
I hate your town play if this is real. Scummy.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 08:28:02 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 08:30:34 am
To the point I wouldn't be suprised if we had a 1-man mafia(as werewolf converter, what that role is called) and 1-man cult leader to go along with the devil, and no natural nightkills at the start.(or they both just used a convert.) We apparently have a survivor and a vampire now. Chaso.There is no werewolf converter role and it's unlikely we have vampires (especially if we have a "lone" vampire), but you do pose an interesting scenario in which there's a small Charismatic Cult and a Dark Magus. However, outside of games explicitly labelled bastard or semi-bastard, I somewhat doubt there'd be two rival scum teams.
LuckyOwl, why are you self-voting? Was it helpful when Blu did that? Who should we actually lynch?
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 08:36:12 am
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Caz: 2: BluarianKnight, notquitethere
Luckyowl: 3: Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 2: Vector, webadict
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: IcyTea31,
Jim Groovester, Toaster, 4maskwolf, who do you favour to eliminate today?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 08:44:35 am
I love what you're trying to do webadict, but its very demoralizing to be told to investigate harder because I certainly feel like I've been doing that. I've read the thread like three times today, I've tried to focus down individual players, I've tried looking at vote interactions, and at the end of the day I've got no clue or fresh insights on who the scum are. And for the second day in a row, we're lynching freaking LuckyOwl. I can tell you who I know the cult leader isn't. I'm certain its not NQT or 4mask, and maybe not Tric, and everyone knows its not Blu, but that's 4 players out of 12.Honestly get where you're coming from. Sometimes more investigation isn't necessary. I'm mostly posting my thoughts in case I'm NKed.
Sorry for the rant. D2 has been a demoralizing, unfun, slog for me, and whoever the scumteam is, they're denying me the msot fun parts of the game.
If you believe the Cult Leader is the top priority, it's going to be hard to push the wagon from Lucky.
Who is the most likely to be Cult Leader to you?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 09:01:33 am
NQT, Icytea, Jim, and Toaster. (early day) I can't trust any of you guys. To the point I wouldn't be suprised if we had a 1-man mafia(as werewolf converter, what that role is called) and 1-man cult leader to go along with the devil, and no natural nightkills at the start.(or they both just used a convert.) We apparently have a survivor and a vampire now. Chaso.What. There's no way in hell this is a multiball, especially not a multiball with double cult.
Luckyowl, Caz, and Persus. I'd say these three make sense to me as lynches.
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.Please don't. You're under suspicion, not up on the chopping block, you've got time and wiggle room to change people's minds on you.
Three people giving up and two others replacing out is not fun.
Toonyman: I'm not going to bother finding your post in question to quote but I'm of the personal opinion that reading into why people replaced out is both bad form and incredibly unreliable.
NQT: As funny as that would be, I wouldn't do that. Simple answer: lying about my role makes my later claim less believable, no matter how townie I am in the intervening period.
I like the analysis you're doing but I think there's a major flaw in it: that is, you don't adjust based on the meta of the players you're looking at. While you wouldn't know this because this is a more recent thing I mostly do on MU, me high-posting is pretty NAI, I always have a high post count (in my last game as town I was at almost 500 posts on D1). Jim, conversely, strikes me as a player with a low postcount but high density of information in his posts, and thus "sort by postcount, become mafia expert" isn't really as applicable there. It also feels like your reads are coming entirely from your mechanical analysis and not at all from the way people are actually playing, which is ???
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 09:09:27 am
If you believe the Cult Leader is the top priority, it's going to be hard to push the wagon from Lucky.Somehow I doubt that if Lucky is mafia...
@4maskwolf:
That was towards Juice in my Day 2 reads. Fair enough, I'm not going to count it against them.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 09:12:12 am
I wouldn't say I have a case on Toaster at all. The best thing I have is reading into the Secret/Tric stuff on Day 1.
Also, you're my top Devil pick.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 09:19:38 am
Let's see if you can put your increased posting to some use. Everyone loves Jim, so tell me what makes him town specifically. And it's surely not his pivot to walls of text in this game, is it?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 09:36:48 am
Let's see if you can put your increased posting to some use. Everyone loves Jim, so tell me what makes him town specifically. And it's surely not his pivot to walls of text in this game, is it?I'm writing up a larger post with my thoughts atm, but I'll take a second to answer this question: my read on Jim yesterday was that compared to wolf!Jim, he was actually putting in effort to solving the game. Wolf jim spent a lot of his time bitching and making excuses to not read the thread and avoid making content, this Jim is still low-posting but his posts are ontopic and actively working to puzzle out the game.
I've noticed less of him today, not sure if that's Jim hasn't posted as much or his posts haven't stood out to me as much, but I think he was probably a townie yesterday. Could have been an overnight conversion target though, though I'm putting him below Toony in that regard.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 09:42:43 am
- Web
- Jim
- Toony
- Vector
- Toaster (for the jokes)
Jim isn't even trying to push a case right now. He was on Persus earlier but there was no traction there and he just unvoted and left it at that. Not exactly screaming "towncore" to me. What makes Jim different than Toaster?
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 09:51:22 am
One thought about post count and meta: I must make clear that I don't think Jim etc. are scummy for low post count by itself (in every championship game I played, players thought I was suspicious for posting less frequent dense posts over snappy short posts, but I was always town). It's more that other players like Vector and Toony are town-sided specifically for having high engagement, and lower engagement puts a player more firmly in the pool of maybes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 09:54:11 am
One thought about post count and meta: I must make clear that I don't think Jim etc. are scummy for low post count by itself (in every championship game I played, players thought I was suspicious for posting less frequent dense posts over snappy short posts, but I was always town).That's MU meta for you. Why do you think I highpost now? I got tired of being called a wolf because I didn't take a giant dump in the thread every five minutes.
I'll reread Jim's posts today and see what I think, but it might be a while till I get a chance to do that because I'm at work and need to do a bunch of stuff after I finish my bit post-o-things.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 10:09:58 am
Spoiler: yesterday's readslist, with explanations (click to show/hide)
With that as a baseline (my thoughts were probably a little different by day end but the 48 hour night kinda blanked my mind on a lot of my more specific thoughts), let's go into my opinions today.
LuckyOwl: My opinion on Lucky's alignment is essentially: it doesn't matter, in the most likely worst case scenario he's the best choice to prevent an instant town loss. I've already showed my math for lucky being converted by a charismatic cult and why, in that scenario, or if you're even worried about that scenario, Lucky is the best choice to prevent a potential town loss. I also think that, just for the possibility of a double convert, converting Lucky is a good night action choice for a charismatic cult specifically, because it puts them one day away from victory. I don't think a Dark Magus converts lucky there, the double-convert is much less valuable because Lucky was under a reasonable amount of suspicion at EoD 1, so if we're facing a Dark Magus team I think lucky is locktown. Unfortunately, we don't have time try and see which kind of team we're facing because this could well be MYLO, so Lucky it is.
Sidenote on Lucky: if we're not facing a cult and the kill was blocked last night I think Lucky is slightly >rand town just based on "he feels like town Lucky, for better or worse."
Toony could definitely have been the convert last night, as noted previously he feels noticeably different to me today than he did yesterday. It feels like he's just rolling over whenever I challenge him on something and I'm not mindmelding with his posts like I did yesterday. He's also a decent convert regardless of the team, he's a strong player with a high degree of thread presence who was widely townread yesterday. If there's no converter he's probably just town, though.
Fun fact, I actually thought Toony was devil when Lucky posted about it because he was pretty hard on "Lucky wolf" yesterday and the devil supposedly told Lucky that taking the deal would make him look town. I was probably also biased by Toony's BYOR 15 role being a devil but eh.
NQT has, all things considered, felt much better today than he did yesterday. Probably it's just the D2 NQT spike where he actually has a few things to work with, since he's a very analytical player.
Toaster... hmm. I don't like Toaster's insistence that a vampire cult is even in the cards, it feels like baseless fearmongering and spreading doubt in the thread. That said, I'm not familiar enough with Toaster to know whether the line of thought that leads him to "vampire cult could be a thing" is a legitimate town line of thought for him. Anyone have a better read on Toaster here?
Persus has felt better to me ever since I poked him to pick up his game. It feels like he's putting thought into solving the game, even if I don't agree with a lot of his solves.
Icy has fallen off hard. Voting Lucky "for the sake of having my vote do something" is pretty -squints-, and whatever I noticed yesterday that made me townread him isn't present today. I think I'll sheep the people saying "Icy is the devil" since I don't have a better guess of who it is and it makes sense at at least a basic level.
Tric is still pingponging all over the place in my reads list for basically the same reasons he was yesterday: his posts are hella wolfy but a lot of his stuff loops back around into TWTBAW or show an ignorance of game mechanics he probably wouldn't have if he had a team to explain things to him.
I'll get to thoughts on the remaining players at some point later, these were the thoughts that floated to the top of my mind while I was writing this and I've got a huge pile of stuff to do.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 11:31:35 am
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Caz: 2: BluarianKnight, notquitethere
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 2: Vector, webadict
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: IcyTea31
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today. ~8.5 hours.
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2021, 11:33:25 am
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2021, 11:59:57 am
Come back when you have more, and I challenge you again: I've been on a scumteam with Lucky since D1? I chose not to NK, or tried to NK someone who was protected, or got RBed and no one claimed, hey, no NK, and funny enough, I blocked Veckle? Oh, and possibly the best of them all: Lucky is playing as though they're being coached by Vector and has been the entire time. These are the implications of your statement. Do they make sense to you?I'm trying to parse what you're saying here, and the WIFOM is getting in the way a bit for me here. Are you saying Toony is accusing you of being incompetent scum?
Jim:
I needed something to engage with and I wanted to see if you'd change anything now that his roleflip was visible. It doesn't normally work, but its always worth a shot just in case it does. Why have you not voted Lucky despite finding him suspicious?Actually, after rereading Jim Groovestar's posts this game, I'm going to vote him for now. Jim, what was your case on Blu again?
Didn't you just reread my posts? Why are you asking this? I thought I was clear.
I voted him for being inauthentic, oddly people pleasing, falling on his sword about his bad play. On two occasions he was pressed by Toaster and myself and was asked to clarify his cases, and he answered twice with something completely unrelated to what he was asked on. Generally being more concerned about how he appeared over finding scum.
I don't think I was wrong about him but he obviously wasn't scum.
Caz:
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.I get what your feeling, I replaced in to being the vote leader when Secretdorf replaced out. Maybe take a break from the game for a few hours. That worked for me just now.
Webadict:
To be fair, I'm mostly okay with a LuckyOwl lynch today, its just it feels like we've regressed back to D1 again, and a Lucky elim doesn't solve my null reads problem.I love what you're trying to do webadict, but its very demoralizing to be told to investigate harder because I certainly feel like I've been doing that. I've read the thread like three times today, I've tried to focus down individual players, I've tried looking at vote interactions, and at the end of the day I've got no clue or fresh insights on who the scum are. And for the second day in a row, we're lynching freaking LuckyOwl. I can tell you who I know the cult leader isn't. I'm certain its not NQT or 4mask, and maybe not Tric, and everyone knows its not Blu, but that's 4 players out of 12.Honestly get where you're coming from. Sometimes more investigation isn't necessary. I'm mostly posting my thoughts in case I'm NKed.
Sorry for the rant. D2 has been a demoralizing, unfun, slog for me, and whoever the scumteam is, they're denying me the msot fun parts of the game.
If you believe the Cult Leader is the top priority, it's going to be hard to push the wagon from Lucky.
Who is the most likely to be Cult Leader to you?
If I had to gut shoot the Cult Leader I'd go for Jim. but that'll change if Lucky flips town.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 12:00:55 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 12:06:52 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 12:11:43 pm
This is just for Meph more than anything; I've been voting Vector most of the day and only now realized it got missed. See below:
I'd like to see someone above the gap hang, and I'd start with Vector. Vector, do you think there was a conversion last night? If so, who did it? Who'd they pick?
That said, my feeling hasn't changed. I'd like to do a bit more reading to make sure I'm not just chasing shadows, but that'll have to come later.
NQT: See above.
My galaxy brain take is that Vector converted Toony last night. I still don't agree with a Lucky lynch on "there's no way he's the converter" grounds, but it's the best of the four terrible lynch options. (Me, Lucky, BK, 4mask) I won't cry if he hangs.
The "Icy is the devil" argument feels plausible, but as of right now I really don't care who the devil is.
I'm highly prioritizing a conversion cult because 1) they're very dangerous 2) I really, really, really hate them. I'd never join a Cult Mafia game. This is total self-meta and I doubt I can pull out a reference for you, so take it or leave it. Again, I'll admit I was wrong if evidence to the contrary comes out.
Well, this is nearly ten years ago, but...
Also, I'm tired of cults. Sorry town!
Also Super 6:
The situation looks good for a vampire cult, unless a kill was prevented or blocked or something. That'd be a relief, really, because I hate dealing with cults.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 12:18:52 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 12:23:49 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 12:28:20 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 12:41:01 pm
Toaster: I don't think you'll find a person here who disagrees with you. Full cults in small games can go die in a fire, they turn the entire game into "find one specific player within the first two days or you're probably just fucked". That's actually why I don't think Meph would use one, because he knows full well people's opinions on cults and how gamebreaking they can be if they get even slightly out of hand.
I agree with NQT and web that vector is a bad choice today.
If I had three shots right now I'd shoot Lucky, Toony, and Caz, in that order.
My current reads list looks something like this:
NQT/webadict
Vector/Jim (pending reread)/Toaster
Persus
Tric/Toony
Icy/Caz
Outside readslist:
Blue/Lucky
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 12:52:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What this insightful look into the true heart of webadict's style says for his intentions is
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 12:56:40 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 01:11:28 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 01:16:24 pm
Obviously you're interested out scum squity, but why Bluarian first?To answer this I put my own posts through the grinder for an appropriate response:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't know what it means to scum hunt dentally, and I'm not sure I want to find out.
I'm okay with launching Vector if Lucky decides to play or is dead.Whyyy though? What are people seeing in Vector that NQT is not seeing?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 01:16:55 pm
Icy has fallen off hard. Voting Lucky "for the sake of having my vote do something" is pretty -squints-At the time I made that vote, an issue was that the votes were spread out extremely wide, and I hadn't voted anyone yet. The purpose was to start a wagon, any wagon, to push Lucky into playing and to see who else would get on it.
Everyone
Speaking of my vote, Caz, NQT, Tric, Toony, web, 4mask and persus, over half the players, have all posted since I placed my vote on Vector, and NQT and 4mask even actively analyzed my voting patterns. However, none saw fit to comment on it. I'd have expected that when a moderately-suspected player places their vote on a town core player, there'd be more disagreement. I understand it's polite to wait for the addressee to respond first, but my case is very bare-boned and nobody saw fit to poke holes in it? Yes, it was bait. As others have said, there are better targets for conversion. Time is running short so I have to move on from that point.
PPE: Huh, I had to take a break from drafting this and I returned to this:
Icy, the only universe in which we lynch Vector today over any other player is if we get a full claim as a vampire lord right now. I know you say it's your gut, but thankfully we don't all share a colon with you. It's great to develop and push suspicions throughout the day, but as we edge closer (8.5 hours!) we should be picking our forever lynches now. Who are you seriously going to push for today?See below.
Reads:
Webadict has downshifted a lot. I don't think he'd have done it so obviously if he'd been converted and would need a change in priorities, so I disagree with that idea. Still town-leaning.
Vector has been playing defensively. Still scum-or-cop, still yet to explain their NQT vote as promised.
TricMagic is crazy and obstinate, but this is town!Tric.
ToonyMan has been actively participating and made good posts. Slight tunnel on Lucky, would have expected a side case by now.
BluarianKnight would be an asset to town...if they were playing. I have reason to doubt their lone vampire claim, but haven't had the chance to confirm that suspicion.
Luckyowl is in a similar boat with BluarianKnight. Depending on what roles there are in play, the read changes for reasons I'm not yet ready to explain. Second choice either way.
Persus13 has played much more convincingly than Secretdorf. Good enough to leave be for now.
4maskwolf has given me no reason to doubt the survivor claim, and is actively playing town.
Toaster has played even more aloofly than on D1.
Juicebox was very scummy, but I'm giving Caz a grace period to rise from that hole.
Jim Groovester makes good posts, if a bit too sparsely; there are good questions but they seldom see followups before new topics have arisen. The effort is still there, though.
Notquitethere is playing just as I would expect from his town meta.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 03, 2021, 02:28:28 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 02:28:36 pm
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.I'm in fact currently giving you a chance, which is why I haven't butted into your conversation with NQT.
oh wow thx u my liege
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.
Yeah, I was willing to give you one chance. You completely blew it faster than Persus did. And like him you haven't redeemed that mistake. I've never actually played with you before to my memory, so no clue if this pecking is your playstyle or not. But it doesn't fit well.
WTF?
It's not because juice was lurking, it was his cases.
and? I see 0 point to playing a game where people already made up their mind on my role over things I wasn't even here for.
Which one of these would you prefer to lynch? If you had to choose between them. I think your day1 grievances against Icy seem manufactured, as well as your lack of suspicion for Bluarian day 1. Not enough to stop them from being lynched, mind. Just enough to grow some town cred instead?How was it manufactured? And what kind of bizarro world argument is this about Blu-- do good town players always and only want to lynch town players?
So you ignore my question and expect me to answer yours?
I've taken Caz's criticism to heart that I'm a boring player. In that vein I've tried to find more outré scum hunting techniques. To that end, I fed the last few pages of Webadict's posts into a markov chain:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What this insightful look into the true heart of webadict's style says for his intentions isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
wow, this post convinces me that your huge data walls aren't a waste of time at all. good job.
Ok if everyone is just going to lynch me because juicebox was lurking then you might as well replace me out. Waste of time.I understand your grievances and it feels genuine. Lucky isn't even trying compared to you, it pisses me off.
Seriously. Once I realised half the town is fine to lynch me from the get-go my motivation went to near zero. Lucky+Bluarian can't even be bothered to play and 4 others want to lynch me bc of juicebox lurking. Also you are literally included in this bc you said 'juicebox is scummy for replacing out'.
I get what your feeling, I replaced in to being the vote leader when Secretdorf replaced out. Maybe take a break from the game for a few hours. That worked for me just now.
BUT THE STEAM COMING OUT OF MY EARS MAKES ME A BETTER PLAYER
and also, yeah maybe do that.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 02:40:06 pm
Do you think your Toony vote could form part of a wagon?
LuckyOwl, I guess voting you isn't applying any more pressure than your self-vote already is, but if you're not scum then please play to your wincon and make a real case + vote.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 02:48:20 pm
Vector:Come back when you have more, and I challenge you again: I've been on a scumteam with Lucky since D1? I chose not to NK, or tried to NK someone who was protected, or got RBed and no one claimed, hey, no NK, and funny enough, I blocked Veckle? Oh, and possibly the best of them all: Lucky is playing as though they're being coached by Vector and has been the entire time. These are the implications of your statement. Do they make sense to you?I'm trying to parse what you're saying here, and the WIFOM is getting in the way a bit for me here. Are you saying Toony is accusing you of being incompetent scum?
My point:
Toony is claiming I'm on a scumteam with LuckyOwl. There are implications to this that would need to make logical sense.
If on a traditional scumteam since the beginning of the game:
- Opted not to NK or was blocked. No one has claimed a block or redirect that would out me. (If someone DID block/redirect to Tric or something last night, you should claim! We want to hit scum!)
- Was coaching Lucky through everything that has happened D1 and D2, including the self-voting and walking away from the thread
If I converted LuckyOwl:
- of all the players in the game, I decided to convert the one which was most suspected (according to the NQT graph) on D1.
- the additional claim is that the reason to do that would be to grab the Bluarian Knight conversion.
- so the concept here is that of all the players in the game, I would play to grab the two self-voters who are most suspected in the game and who have already shown that they easily crack under pressure.
I can think of exactly one reason why scum!vector would actually consider doing this, which is, as I guess people have noticed, as a WIFOM-shield. So I'm not trying to say something along the lines of "yeah, it's impossible." Sure. It's possible. You know me: I do crazy stuff when I'm playing scum. But what I am trying to do is press people to see if their theories make internally consistent, logical sense and ask whether they really want to put their tinfoil hats on right now.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 03, 2021, 03:19:56 pm
Bluarian who should town lynch today?
Toony has a sudden shift of scuminess. If I was the convertor, he would have been my pick N1.
However, at this point seeing if Lucky is really town is probably the better call.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 03:21:52 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 03, 2021, 03:48:23 pm
I have misgivings about notquitethere but not a coherent case.
Luckyowl is indeed playing terribly and has basically disappeared, as has BluearianKnight, and I won't weep for either of them if they're gone but I don't think either of their lynches productively advance our win conditions.
ToonyMan I think is a convert.
Irresponsibly notquitethere, and I'll try to check in before the end of day but I doubt I'll see it.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 04:04:01 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 04:06:38 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 04:11:01 pm
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Luckyowl: 6: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 3: Jim Groovester, Vector, webadict
Toaster: 1: IcyTea31
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
Day ends in ~4 hours
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:18:51 pm
I guess I should be saltier about Vector's complete lack of a case on me, and the fact Web sheeps me on half the things I say and is still voting me. But whatever, I think they're town. They'll come around. Jim just seems to be the classic third-on-a-wagon scum sticking his boot in.
I could shift to you. But don't trust any of you four. And Lucky is awol. Probably going to show up in the last hours to mess with the vote and generally deny town info through silence.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 04:20:37 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, it looks like Lucky is going out today unless players want to make a compelling alternative case. Next game I mod, I'd be tempted to modkill anyone who self votes, it's so anti-game. If Lucky flips town, it's just going to leave a bad feeling. He's more or less forced us to eliminate him from the game as he's not playing. I dunno, I don't like it.
Lucky, please, if you're reading this, get back here and make a real vote.
Persus and ICT I get for going after Jim or Toaster, and they'd be fine alternative lynch candidates. Still I'd expect a bit of movement before day end.
I don't know who Caz thinks will join their Toony wagon, but OK. Ditto Toaster on Vector. Do you guys want to catch scum today? We have less than four hours to go...
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 04:22:36 pm
PPE: I swear, I'm not trying to sheep you, NQT.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 04:25:14 pm
Alright guys, can anyone explain why y'all voting for Luckyowl?...
No, I don’t think I will, considering I’ve already said it like four times.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 04:26:07 pm
@NQT:
I've said (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254866#msg8254866) a few reasons (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254895#msg8254895) why.I'm okay with launching Vector if Lucky decides to play or is dead.Whyyy though? What are people seeing in Vector that NQT is not seeing?
I don't have a full case which is why I'd rather vote Lucky (or Caz).
@The Scum Team (whoever you may be):
My galaxy brain take is that Vector converted Toony last night.
Toony has a sudden shift of scuminess. If I was the convertor, he would have been my pick N1.
ToonyMan I think is a convert.This is sort of good for us because I would consider the role I have to be very useful for town. I don't know who's actually scum trying to throw shade on me, but it works in town's favor if you choose not to kill me because of this narrative you've crafted. If I play my cards right I could ruin's scum day.
PPE:
The Scribe's Tally SheetHmhmhm, interesting.
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Luckyowl: 6: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 3: Jim Groovester, Vector, webadict
Toaster: 1: IcyTea31
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
NQT lol
If Jim, Vector, and Webadict are all scum then it's already over.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:27:50 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 04:28:37 pm
@NQT: I frankly still think you were the Convert, but you are ar least partially right that you're mindmelding me, so I'm gonna rethink. Plus I have finished my reads, and Caz needs an update.
PPE: Damn, Toony jumping on the NQT wagon too. I do not like.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 04:29:54 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:30:41 pm
PPE:The Scribe's Tally SheetHmhmhm, interesting.
Jim Groovester: 1: Persus13
Luckyowl: 6: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 3: Jim Groovester, Vector, webadict
Toaster: 1: IcyTea31
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
NQT lol
If Jim, Vector, and Webadict are all scum then it's already over.
Oh Toony, why are you doing this. You had so much townequity left, then you do this. As is, voting thirdparty gets us no closer to lynching scum, and Lucky needs to go..
Web can you get Mamobo for a votecount? That blue was meant to be red, but I know that Mamobo has a link to the last vote for people, so I can find it that way.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 04:33:38 pm
We're not going NQT today.
I'm still at work and don't have much time to talk atm but no, just no.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 04:34:32 pm
- They could be a scum priest which would be Bad News
- They've given up
- Isn't scumhunting or even posting
--
But I dunno. It feels too easy. There's not enough pushback and barely any counter-wagon forming, everyone else is too diffuse. I've said Caz can have a bit of breathing space (though I'm regretting that a little because it's not as if they're stepping up) which would leave...
Jim the next step up on my list. You still lurking in the thread or are you really checked out?
PPE: Toony, dude what kind of numbskull move is that. How is any wagon on a town player ever made up solely of scum players? That rationale makes no sense. You want me to think you're the convert, right?
OK so I guess the counterwagon is on me! That makes me feel a little better about the Lucky vote, but I'd like to still hit one of the half-competent scum players if possible, so let's see where this Jim vote leads...
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:37:29 pm
And I note Lucky ignored this question:Lucky, what exactly did the Devil offer you?
Lucky, care to answer?
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
facepalms. Yeah, that isn't Luckyowl, that's someone else puppeteering the owl. Why wouldn't you take the protect? I'd love a Protect skill since it makes me a bulletproof doctor.
It was a whole series of things, but basic rundown, the owl has a puppeteer. And they have been caught in a lie and have now shut themselves up completely to avoid giving any more info on their partners. Cause I am pretty sure LO would let slip some. Their day 1 game and wanting to lynch you is likely another reason if they were scum from the start, since you are the one that tends to confirm them as town.
Ninja NQT. I will not have a day 2 CFD.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 04:40:45 pm
Tricmagic:
NQT lol
Oh Toony, why are you doing this. You had so much townequity left, then you do this. As is, voting thirdparty gets us no closer to lynching scum, and Lucky needs to go..
Are you saying NQT is third party?
Post by: Mamobo on March 03, 2021, 04:42:39 pm
Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254150#msg8254150) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254165#msg8254165) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254167#msg8254167) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254168#msg8254168) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254171#msg8254171) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254172#msg8254172) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254173#msg8254173) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254192#msg8254192) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254202#msg8254202) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254206#msg8254206) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254209#msg8254209) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254242#msg8254242) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254275#msg8254275) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254278#msg8254278) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254284#msg8254284) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254326#msg8254326) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254329#msg8254329) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254386#msg8254386) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254597#msg8254597) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254598#msg8254598) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254610#msg8254610) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254614#msg8254614) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254617#msg8254617) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254620#msg8254620) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254629#msg8254629) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254651#msg8254651) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254675#msg8254675) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254681#msg8254681) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254683#msg8254683) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254705#msg8254705) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254710#msg8254710) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254720#msg8254720) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254730#msg8254730) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254737#msg8254737) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254738#msg8254738) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254746#msg8254746) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254750#msg8254750) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254755#msg8254755) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254775#msg8254775) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254785#msg8254785) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255036#msg8255036) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255049#msg8255049) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255052#msg8255052) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255054#msg8255054) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255096#msg8255096) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255201#msg8255201) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255208#msg8255208) Last post was less than an hour ago.
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254182#msg8254182) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254183#msg8254183) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254843#msg8254843) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255141#msg8255141) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255160#msg8255160) Last post was 1 hour ago.
Caz - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254744#msg8254744) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254756#msg8254756) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254768#msg8254768) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254774#msg8254774) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254782#msg8254782) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254784#msg8254784) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254813#msg8254813) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254815#msg8254815) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254840#msg8254840) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254967#msg8254967) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255003#msg8255003) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255013#msg8255013) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255142#msg8255142) Last post was 2 hours ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254299#msg8254299) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254527#msg8254527) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254541#msg8254541) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254543#msg8254543) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254561#msg8254561) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254619#msg8254619) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254642#msg8254642) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254652#msg8254652) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254963#msg8254963) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254965#msg8254965) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255015#msg8255015) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255016#msg8255016) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255117#msg8255117) Last post was 3 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254057#msg8254057) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254072#msg8254072) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254471#msg8254471) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254481#msg8254481) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254622#msg8254622) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254919#msg8254919) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254924#msg8254924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254937#msg8254937) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255179#msg8255179) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254511#msg8254511) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254520#msg8254520) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254600#msg8254600) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254605#msg8254605) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254607#msg8254607) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254729#msg8254729) Last post was 24 hours ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254131#msg8254131) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254190#msg8254190) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254191#msg8254191) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254207#msg8254207) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254215#msg8254215) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254241#msg8254241) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254244#msg8254244) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254320#msg8254320) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254328#msg8254328) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254355#msg8254355) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254366#msg8254366) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254522#msg8254522) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254534#msg8254534) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254535#msg8254535) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254553#msg8254553) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254591#msg8254591) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254611#msg8254611) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254649#msg8254649) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254972#msg8254972) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254993#msg8254993) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255008#msg8255008) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255022#msg8255022) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255026#msg8255026) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255029#msg8255029) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255044#msg8255044) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255050#msg8255050) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255051#msg8255051) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255079#msg8255079) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255089#msg8255089) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255093#msg8255093) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255100#msg8255100) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255116#msg8255116) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255151#msg8255151) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255187#msg8255187) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255188#msg8255188) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255196#msg8255196) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255209#msg8255209) Last post was less than an hour ago.
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Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 04:44:28 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 04:45:12 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 04:45:40 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 04:45:52 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 04:46:30 pm
I said I wanted to do a D1 analysis to find the most likely initial scum so that's what I'm doing right now.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 04:48:01 pm
If Lucky was converted by a charismatic cultist, today is MYLO unless Blue revived as an SK.
The very existence of that possibility means we have to play like we're in MYLO to avoid an instant-loss.
The most reliable way to head off this scenario is to launch Lucky.
Thus, Lucky must die to avoid losing to the worst case scenario.
QED
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 04:51:12 pm
The core of my opinion on NQT was as follows:
- NQT doing mechanical analysis does not mean that NQT is town. It just means that NQT is NQT.
- NQT's forms of mechanical analysis from this game are time-consuming but are not particularly yielding major insights.
--- For example: we can all figure out who has been most and least active. Claiming that those who bounce around are town while those who focus down are scum misses the strong tell of "active-lurking without making a case/looking for easy pickings."
- As a further point, if NQT had started the game as solo converter, they would have a very strong incentive to: put in a lot of effort to "generate information" (it's exciting to have that solo scum responsibility! go go go scumteam!!) while not actually producing anything.
- HOWEVER, when I looked back at the game, NQT had a lot of side points that were not mechanically oriented. They were not his biggest posts, but they were active and entailed normal scumhunting.
- NQT also had a strong towntell: responding actively in thread as players post and regularly adjusting reads.
- NQT has also been a lot more interested in clearing a broad spread of players as town than I would expect to fit within a scum!NQT wincon.
==== With that said, there were still a few things that stood out to me:
---- defensiveness
---- a lot of, not just mechanical focus, but scumteam composition focus. This stood out to me in Skynet. However, if cult, the ongoing monitoring of the scum composition possibilities early D1 would be a lot of effort for a fundamentally anti-wincon outcome. Via Occam's razor, I'm not seeing it.
---- If NQT were scum, we should expect to see: 1. fakeclaim breadcrumbing 2. data analysis with "bent" outcomes: looking into the method shows clear bias in its application. 3. virtually no behavioral analysis. I haven't seen any of that so far.
---- I believe I could be being snowed, but I'm inclined to look here Tomorrow at earliest without strong further evidence.
I was checking Toony for consistency:
- The claim that LO is scum being coached starts D1.
- Toony's initial claim was that NQT was coaching the owl.
- Today, Toony's claim is that I have been coaching the owl.
- This shift appears to happen organically in a way that I think would be difficult to fake. They have been reactionary and driven some really bad cases on D2, but after D1 I can see things from their perspective.
- I would expect some kind of shift if Toony had been converted, whether in opinions or targets or "energy," and I'm not seeing it. I think scum!Toony would be more careful about logical consistency.
ICT has a lot of interesting posts that don't necessarily go anywhere, but are heavily invested in getting information in unorthodox behavioral ways. I don't like how much they've been on the sidelines this game, but I felt like they were advancing the gamestate, as it were, both Yesterday and Today.
Regarding Caz/Juicebox:
- Juicebox -- lurking, but more importantly suddenly showed up at the EOD CFD to defend self. NQT notices that no one moved to protect Juicebox during the CFD.
- This is our second dreamwalker claim.
- Caz is mostly being reactive in-thread and had the world's sloppiest readslist, which was nothing but hot air, despite having watched the game since D1.
- I still feel iffy on this. I think this target is a bit too easy.
Persus13:
I'm certain its not NQT
Wait, why's that?
Final thoughts:
- Not to outguess the mod, but for balance, if Tric is a Knight it would make sense for us to have something on hand with an NK.
- I think that: people are spinning up a bunch of WIFOM about the vets right now because 1. we really don't want to have a cult, especially 2. we don't want the cult to have converted one of the "confirmed" vets, and additionally 3. the newer crew has been asking for replaces and self-voting right and left.
- If Toaster rolled conventional scum, I could see him not NKing in order to push the cult narrative. See his start-of-day post; and he has, I feel, the most experience with this setup. It's a very viable strategy for him.
- Also, Toaster was the one who started the push to focus on the worst-case vampire lord scenario, which has left people looking for a converter from D1 (i.e. not interacting much with Today) and additionally running our pool of strongest vets ragged as a group of possible conversion targets.
- Toaster has been on the side for most of today. I know that he's busy. So am I. But the point is more: I'm not seeing the gamestate advancing much from their hunting today.
- I'm feeling Jim as the best conversion target from our pool of strong players at this point, if we do have a converter. Third on the bandwagon, as others have noted, is not a good look. I also trust Jim to try to change up his playstyle since BYOR15.
- I'm feeling Webadict as the Devil. Web's "NQT has massive scum equity" without much backing it up pings me wrong and I still don't like the early D1 play. I could also see Web going for Lucky's soul. Feels very Web.
Anyway, my probably-final vote for Today is on Toaster. I've been having trouble sleeping lately and have a lot of HW to catch up on. Sorry I couldn't get the big post out sooner.
PS: To those who think LuckyOwl was converted, I'm going to ask you to think again about which player would go for the BK-LO double-convert possibility. What would their mindset be? What would they be expecting to gain? This isn't just a self-defense: I don't think we should chop LO today. This fundamentally doesn't make sense (to me) as a scum strat.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 04:52:30 pm
Oh Toony, why are you doing this. You had so much townequity left, then you do this. As is, voting thirdparty gets us no closer to lynching scum, and Lucky needs to go..
Ugh, Ninja'ed, but: what's this about, Tric? Why are you convinced NQT is 3rd party?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 04:53:09 pm
Luckyowl is self-voting.
I'm me.
That leaves NQT and Tric as the weird people voting Lucky.
I suppose I'll reiterate my case on Lucky one last time.It's a tough choice for me.
If Lucky was converted by a charismatic cultist, today is MYLO unless Blue revived as an SK.
The very existence of that possibility means we have to play like we're in MYLO to avoid an instant-loss.
The most reliable way to head off this scenario is to launch Lucky.
Thus, Lucky must die to avoid losing to the worst case scenario.
QED
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:57:16 pm
I don't think NQT is the converter.
Tricmagic:NQT lol
Oh Toony, why are you doing this. You had so much townequity left, then you do this. As is, voting thirdparty gets us no closer to lynching scum, and Lucky needs to go..
Are you saying NQT is third party?
I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if one of the four of you were third-party.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 04:59:35 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 05:00:32 pm
4mask, I know you've explained the maths before, but I'm trying to work through it. I thought conversion happened after raising, so Lucky being converted is no worse than if anyone else was converted.
Worst Case Scenario
13 players
3 initial scum + 1 convert = 4
Blu who maybe was raised as scum due to incredible bad luck or maybe is third party = 1
1 third party who says he'll side with scum if they out themselves = 1
1 devil? (a scum!Lucky would lie about this, no?)
6 town players
Town mislynch, then one dies in the night, leaving worst case:
4 town, 5 scum (inc Blu), 2 possibly treacherous 3rd parties = Game over
So, by the worst case scenario, we need to hit scum today regardless. But if someone else was converted we could still be in worst case scenario land, no? Isn't this worst case scenario thinking an argument for launching Blu instead?
ppe: bunch of stuff, will get to
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 05:02:22 pm
Oh Toony, why are you doing this. You had so much townequity left, then you do this. As is, voting thirdparty gets us no closer to lynching scum, and Lucky needs to go..
Ugh, Ninja'ed, but: what's this about, Tric? Why are you convinced NQT is 3rd party?
One note about NQT is that he could be the Devil, playing the long game with normal town moves, but not managing it. They want to find scum and make deals. But something simular could apply to Jim. Or Icytea, or Toaster. I don't think web is a Devil though.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 05:04:04 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:04:48 pm
In the scenario, today we're looking at 6 v 5 v 2 or 6 v 4 v 3. Devil needs game to go longer so they always townside, so 7 v 5 v 1 or 7 v 4 v 2. ML today, kill overnight, 5 v 5 v 1 or 5 v 4 v 2. In both scenarios the survivor(s) can be bullied into voting with scum, giving them a voting edge and guaranteeing their victory.
And no, it's not the same in all scenarios because the odds of blue coming back as a wolf from a townie revive are... low. So low it's never been seen in all Supernaturals. We didn't even know that was possible until Meph said so this game and even so... eh. I'm not going to play around the possibility.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:05:09 pm
Is this shift occurring because of the whole devil thing? If NQT is lynched and flips as such, that says a lot about the ones pushing it.Nobody but you believes NQT to be the devil.
Thread consensus devil is Icy AFAIK.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:05:44 pm
I'm just boggled, guys. Luckyowl is the lazy vote. If you want to eliminate them, FINE. I say FINE because we're basically forced to, but we should be finding better targets than "I'm taking my ball and going home" Luckyowl.
PPE@Vector: I am most certainly not the Devil. If I were, I would have claimed as such. Also, I'd be giving you Devil deals. I am disappointed that you think I'd put value on Lucky's soul.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:06:00 pm
As a question, what is the possibility that LO started as scum? He doesn't need to be converted if he was already part of the scum team.0% if there's a conversion team (this is a meta read but I'll stand by it), about rand if a kill team.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:07:50 pm
... Look, I literally hate the Lucky wagon. The Lucky wagon is where people go to stop trying. Anyone on the Lucky wagon that doesn't believe there is a Vampire Cult is lazy and voting wrong. That excuses Toaster. 4maskwolf is a Survivor, so they'll vote whatever doesn't get them ire, and the same goes for Bluarian. I literally don't understand why Lucky is voting for Lucky, so if you want to policy lynch self-voters, fine, whatever, I get it. But NQT doesn't think there's a Vampire Cult, and they were voting for Lucky. ToonyMan is all over the place and they were voting for Lucky, and the more I read from them the scummier they look. TricMagic is getting shifted down into scumleaning for whatever they've been doing Today, and I haven't even gotten to their read yet.-shrug- agree to disagree. You've seen my math, if you don't agree that it's a scenario worth considering that's up to you.
I'm just boggled, guys. Luckyowl is the lazy vote. If you want to eliminate them, FINE. I say FINE because we're basically forced to, but we should be finding better targets than "I'm taking my ball and going home" Luckyowl.
PPE@Vector: I am most certainly not the Devil. If I were, I would have claimed as such. Also, I'd be giving you Devil deals. I am disappointed that you think I'd put value on Lucky's soul.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 05:10:53 pm
Resurrections happen after Conversions, so they would act like a normal priest for that faction.
OK, I get the Lucky push even more now (and it speaks well for Toaster for bring it up, unless that's not a thing the scum team thought about.)
Web, what do you think about 4mask's argument that the scum team could be aiming for a two-fer by converting Lucky so that he'd hopefully raise Blu onto their team, getting two scum for the price of one? I don't think we need to suppose a Vampire cult for that to make sense, Dark Magus or charisma cult works the same there doesn't it?
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 05:11:23 pm
PPE@Vector: I am most certainly not the Devil. If I were, I would have claimed as such. Also, I'd be giving you Devil deals. I am disappointed that you think I'd put value on Lucky's soul.
Wow, LOL. OK, back to assuming it's ICT.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 05:12:54 pm
Is this shift occurring because of the whole devil thing? If NQT is lynched and flips as such, that says a lot about the ones pushing it.Nobody but you believes NQT to be the devil.
Thread consensus devil is Icy AFAIK.
Consensus or Fact? I never actually retained that bit of info from reading the thread.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 05:13:21 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:14:13 pm
Ugh, how did I misread this the wrong way:I've stated this in the past, but I don't think a Dark Magus cult converts Lucky. It doesn't put them in the same "about to win" scenario that it does for a charismatic cult and Lucky was considered wolfy enough that it's not worth it to get the double-convert (since the moment lucky bites it Blue immediately follows). Better for a Dark Magus to convert someone else.Resurrections happen after Conversions, so they would act like a normal priest for that faction.
OK, I get the Lucky push even more now (and it speaks well for Toaster for bring it up, unless that's not a thing the scum team thought about.)
Web, what do you think about 4mask's argument that the scum team could be aiming for a two-fer by converting Lucky so that he'd hopefully raise Blu onto their team, getting two scum for the price of one? I don't think we need to suppose a Vampire cult for that to make sense, Dark Magus or charisma cult works the same there doesn't it?
If we weren't in a potential MYLO I'd be happy just waiting and seeing what the wolf kill looks like because if it was Dark Magus that would clear Lucky in my book.
Also yes if Lucky flips cult priest then Toaster is lock clear never rescinding.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 05:15:02 pm
So far, Consensus, not established Fact.
Consensus is awfully strong. I mean, what, three people have said that?
Vector, this is like the third slight misrepresentation of facts I've called out today from you. Is this Scum Vector? Tiny pushes of misinformation to get town headed off the wrong way?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:15:29 pm
-shrug- agree to disagree. You've seen my math, if you don't agree that it's a scenario worth considering that's up to you.I don't even believe it matters to you, so I'm not really sure why I'd trust your math. For you, anyone else also works.
How about this, if Luckyowl is Town, who does that implicate? For me, I'd say ToonyMan and TricMagic. ToonyMan has been pushing the Luckywagon all day and TricMagic is... like, super weird.
Web, what do you think about 4mask's argument that the scum team could be aiming for a two-fer by converting Lucky so that he'd hopefully raise Blu onto their team, getting two scum for the price of one? I don't think we need to suppose a Vampire cult for that to make sense, Dark Magus or charisma cult works the same there doesn't it?... Look, I don't know the nice way to say this, but Luckyowl is a garbage fire as scum. He's just not good. So, like, if you wanted Bluarian on your team, fine, cool, Blue is a decent scum player, but Luckyowl would tank your whole team, so it just doesn't seem like a fair trade.
Consensus is awfully strong. I mean, what, three people have said that?Okay, that was pretty funny.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:16:52 pm
Also yes if Lucky flips cult priest then Toaster is lock clear never rescinding.Yes, I agree. Toaster wouldn't be raiding the stores for tinfoil otherwise.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 05:17:46 pm
So far, Consensus, not established Fact.
Consensus is awfully strong. I mean, what, three people have said that?
Vector, this is like the third slight misrepresentation of facts I've called out today from you. Is this Scum Vector? Tiny pushes of misinformation to get town headed off the wrong way?
Is this shift occurring because of the whole devil thing? If NQT is lynched and flips as such, that says a lot about the ones pushing it.Nobody but you believes NQT to be the devil.
Thread consensus devil is Icy AFAIK.
Is this shift occurring because of the whole devil thing? If NQT is lynched and flips as such, that says a lot about the ones pushing it.Nobody but you believes NQT to be the devil.
Thread consensus devil is Icy AFAIK.
Consensus or Fact? I never actually retained that bit of info from reading the thread.
The wording is offered by 4mask and then doubled down on by Tric, but go off I guess. Convenient how deleting part of my post obscured the introduction of the word.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 05:18:24 pm
Convenient how deleting part of my post obscured the introduction of the word.
OK, this is false. *sigh* I need a rest.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 05:20:18 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: Persus13, notquitethere
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, TricMagic
notquitethere: 2: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan
Toaster: 2: IcyTea31, Vector
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
Web, I think you're right. It's not a good tradeoff for scum. I'm solid that they'd pick from the pool of top players. My earlier Lucky vote was on the assumption that Lucky started as scum. But this whole situation does feel a bit like Bluarian's D1 where he's throwing in the towel (though if we let off every player that gives up we'd never get anywhere).
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:20:55 pm
... Look, I don't know the nice way to say this, but Luckyowl is a garbage fire as scum. He's just not good. So, like, if you wanted Bluarian on your team, fine, cool, Blue is a decent scum player, but Luckyowl would tank your whole team, so it just doesn't seem like a fair trade.You are destroying my mind Web.
Luckyowl, get in here.
I'm straddling the line between Web telling you not to post in the main thread from scum chat and you actually being town and Web is right. Prove this to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:23:02 pm
-angry dog noises--shrug- agree to disagree. You've seen my math, if you don't agree that it's a scenario worth considering that's up to you.I don't even believe it matters to you, so I'm not really sure why I'd trust your math. For you, anyone else also works.
Weren't you the one talking about how I was townier than many actual towns and that I clearly had the town's best interest at heart?
Why the change?
Also, like, whether I care or not doesn't actually change the math. Math is math, regardless of who's using it.
Toony, 100%, especially if we're looking at a conversion team. Toony has felt very off to me today in a "might have been converted" kind of way and I honestly think he was more likely the convert last night than Lucky, the Lucky vote is just to play it safe.-shrug- agree to disagree. You've seen my math, if you don't agree that it's a scenario worth considering that's up to you.How about this, if Luckyowl is Town, who does that implicate? For me, I'd say ToonyMan and TricMagic. ToonyMan has been pushing the Luckywagon all day and TricMagic is... like, super weird.
Other than that I'd probably just go down through my existing list of "who's the wolfiest": Caz, Icy, Tric, Persus, in that order. Maybe anyone who agreed with Toony's bizarre case on Lucky that I still have trouble understanding because of how self-contradicting it is. Don't remember exactly who expressed support for it, I think Jim did? Plus like one or two other people?
Side note but yes, "thread consensus" is perhaps a little strong of a term but it's basically the only devil candidate that more than one person believes in, so it's certainly the favored candidate by the thread.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:25:13 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 05:28:35 pm
TL;DR I'd bet the game we don't have a Cult Team of three that contains a Charismatic Cultist. Meph tried that in an eleven player game, and it was an scum blowout, and probably would have been even without them converting the Monster Hunter. In his post game review, he made commentary about future ways to balance this out, mostly in how attempting to convert someone with a kill would either result in a kill or a loss of role power. He also talked clearly targeting certain people for roles given meta reads and likelihood of conversion. (He thought veterans Toony or Web with less impactful roles would be converted, not the raw recruit player with Monster Hunter... who asked for a replace D1 and turned into me.) I see Charismatic Cultist with one buddy as plausible in this game.
In addition, two dreamwalkers would be a fairly strong role counter for a converter; two players each getting two chances to see the conversion happen (recruit and recruiter). Since we're getting deep into meta reads, I wouldn't be surprised if he made sure a Starting Scum Team Lucky had someone to talk with. I'd be way more likely to believe Cult Lucky started as such with only a single buddy. And heck, Charismatic Cultist+Cult Priest sounds like an interesting team in a 13p game.
As for Town Lucky getting converted, you're looking at the tradeoff cost of getting one player of your choice, one likely in a meta-strong position, VERSUS a meta-weak player who MIGHT bring in another buddy, who would have been... the player who got lynched D1. Raw numbers are nice, but you're not getting a lot besides. I'd think the Strong Player Of Your Choice is the better deal... unless the Charismatic Cultist started with two teammates and raw numbers could brute force it, but I've already covered that possibility and how it's super remote.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:31:15 pm
Unless we're lucky about Lucky, I'm not quite sure this spread catches town in under three hours to go:Which, again, is fair, if we'd like to take the information here and utilize it. But, we're spending all Day saying it's Luckyowl and nothing else. I'm just jumping through ToonyMan's posts and it's really just Luckyowl for the first half of them and just tunnelling hard on it. Although, writing that out now, I can't actually tell if that's the old Toony Tunnel. Maybe I'm thinking of everything wrong.
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: Persus13, notquitethere
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, TricMagic
notquitethere: 2: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan
Toaster: 2: IcyTea31, Vector
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
Web, I think you're right. It's not a good tradeoff for scum. I'm solid that they'd pick from the pool of top players. My earlier Lucky vote was on the assumption that Lucky started as scum. But this whole situation does feel a bit like Bluarian's D1 where he's throwing in the towel (though if we let off every player that gives up we'd never get anywhere).
Damn, I'm really waffling hard here. I'm gonna get back on track.
Persus13. They're the only one I've haven't been unsure of so far, and their content today didn't make me feel better about Secretdorf Yesterday. Might as well start a whole new wagon with 2 and a half hours left.
Because you're telling me what's right for Town, but what you're really thinking about is what's right for you. That's sort of the game we're all playing here. To you, it's a surefire vote. Either it hits useless Town or it hits useless scum. Both of those are okay for you. But, one of those is slightly better for me than the other.-angry dog noises--shrug- agree to disagree. You've seen my math, if you don't agree that it's a scenario worth considering that's up to you.I don't even believe it matters to you, so I'm not really sure why I'd trust your math. For you, anyone else also works.
Weren't you the one talking about how I was townier than many actual towns and that I clearly had the town's best interest at heart?
Why the change?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:31:47 pm
If Lucky is town then I'm in trouble and Webadict is either town or completely played me as scum. Blue is most likely just third-party.
If Lucky is mafia then I'm going to have unpleasant guests tonight, Webadict is probably scum...hmm..., and Blue is either third-party or also scum.
Just gonna shit this out here
I plan on posting a D1 analysis when I'm at a computer.I wanted to look at the Day 1 end vote count some more when I had the time, which is now hopefully.
It's Day 1 here so just looking for initial scum, everybody on Day 2 should be the same alignment besides one person at most.
Blue was confirmed town so we can make the tally look like this:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet*TricMagic was voting Juicebox, they unvoted to prevent ties apparently.
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
juicebox: 4: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, webadict, TricMagic
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
My reads on Day 1 would look like this:
The Scribe's Tally SheetWhich doesn't feel right at all. This would mean town had most of the scum team on the chopping block, only being bested by every scum player voting Blue.
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
juicebox: 4: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, webadict, TricMagic
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
It does make me more confident in the Lucky lynch though. It also makes me more townlean Juice...plus if Juice/Caz is town then that's more evidence that CFDs are complete trash garbage.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 05:34:51 pm
Jim Groovester: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
Luckyowl: 5: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
Persus13: 1: webadict
Toaster: 2: IcyTea31, Vector
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
Day ends in ~2.5 hours.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:36:30 pm
Meph probably didn't expect the town priest to claim on Day 1 for no reason. This is because they would become a free double convert at night for scum, which could throw off the balancing if Meph didn't account for it...or maybe he did if Blue is telling the truth about being Lone Vampire. Bam, Lucky is a scum convert.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 03, 2021, 05:38:15 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: Persus13, notquitethere
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, TricMagic
notquitethere: 2: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan
Toaster: 2: IcyTea31, Vector
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
I'll put it down now - I think Toony's a for-sure convert. He's pushing hard for the Luckyowl lynch, which a lot of folks (after rereading) are now pretty against, and he's pushing for it now with his recent vote - which makes Luckyowl 5.
His last vote though, shown above - is NQT. Who I still, legitimately, don't see as scum. I don't get that vibe.
There's five voted on Lucky atm.
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
Luckyowl: 5: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Luckyowl, ToonyMan, TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
Persus13: 1: webadict
Toaster: 2: IcyTea31, Vector
ToonyMan: 1: Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
Day ends in ~2.5 hours.
Me and 4mask are survivors - or at least claimed as such. Luckyowl, Toony, and Tric - I'm willing to give Tric a null-vote for now, as I haven't put a keen eye on his recently, but this to me seems like throwing Lucky under the bus to give Toony legitimacy. I'm not falling for it.
ToonyMan
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:40:36 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 05:47:36 pm
I think you're a convert too, Toony. Are you going to vote me?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:48:16 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 05:48:52 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 05:49:12 pm
Toony on NQT was also out of left field.
Caz on Toony is an interesting tinfoil, but I don't think it's looking at the right changes.
Luckyowl wagon is dumb.
Probably won't be around for the last moments, already past midnight.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:51:05 pm
I think you're a convert too, Toony. Are you going to vote me?It doesn't matter, every scum member is going to push this narrative as well as hapless town. The way rumors work is you just say them over and over. I'm just glad it means scum will have to worry about me at night...
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 05:53:21 pm
I would be less paranoid if Lucky was here!!You have literally been saying Luckyowl and Vector over and over, so why did you vote NQT?I think you're a convert too, Toony. Are you going to vote me?It doesn't matter, every scum member is going to push this narrative as well as hapless town. The way rumors work is you just say them over and over. I'm just glad it means scum will have to worry about me at night...
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 05:53:52 pm
I would be less paranoid if Lucky was here!!Completely agree.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:54:19 pm
Because you're telling me what's right for Town, but what you're really thinking about is what's right for you. That's sort of the game we're all playing here. To you, it's a surefire vote. Either it hits useless Town or it hits useless scum. Both of those are okay for you. But, one of those is slightly better for me than the other.(https://media.tenor.com/images/081a1bc5907b5403370d43f88a4b2f2d/tenor.gif)
Your Occam's Razor needs some sharpening. Which is more likely: that I spend all day warning the town about a worst case scenario that I win in anyway and push a lynch on the only person in the game who is confirmed not to be a Serial Killer (the only alignment that directly threatens my wincon) despite not actually caring who lives or dies, or I do the same things because I'm following through on a promise I made to townside.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 05:56:36 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:57:16 pm
BluarianKnight: why are you voting for Luckyowl, yourself, and why isn't Toony voting for that reason?...
English, motherfucker, do you read it?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 05:57:45 pm
Increased size is in the original.
ToonyMan
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 05:57:51 pm
Your argument is that BK is scum because... he voted you and thinks you're a convert?No, it's that I think Lucky is scum and now Blue sees an opportunity to flip off scum...or he's just a claimed survivor doing what they do.
Because I'm dumb and listened to the voices in my head after getting back from work.I would be less paranoid if Lucky was here!!You have literally been saying Luckyowl and Vector over and over, so why did you vote NQT?I think you're a convert too, Toony. Are you going to vote me?It doesn't matter, every scum member is going to push this narrative as well as hapless town. The way rumors work is you just say them over and over. I'm just glad it means scum will have to worry about me at night...
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 05:59:58 pm
Spoiler: My original converter chart (click to show/hide)
Today's Converter Chart:
Quote
Vector
IcyTea31
Jim Groovester
Persus13
webadict
notquitethere
ToonyMan
Caz
You'll notice some changes, notably the appearance of Caz (It's way, way, remote, but it's enough that I find it mentionable.) I haven't been satisfied with the towniness of his play, but I again stress that I appreciate him trying and he's doing better than Lucky, certainly. Icy went up, Persus edged slightly up. NQT only didn't move under Toony because I think Toony is the convert. They're basically tied.
A more standard list coming but so many ninjas I'm posting this now.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:01:13 pm
Your Occam's Razor needs some sharpening. Which is more likely: that I spend all day warning the town about a worst case scenario that I win in anyway and push a lynch on the only person in the game who is confirmed not to be a Serial Killer (the only alignment that directly threatens my wincon) despite not actually caring who lives or dies, or I do the same things because I'm following through on a promise I made to townside.I don't have gifs for you. I have nothing but nice words that will hug you.
Okay, look, I get that you're at least partially hoping that Luckyowl is scum, but there's probably a little tiny piece deep down that is secretly hoping that Luckyowl is Town so the scum can get a little bit closer to winning. It's just too easy of an elimination for me. If we want to eliminate Luckyowl, then can we at least remember that Beyonce had one of the greatest hits of all time? Or, more seriously, that there are several actual scum out there that could be eliminated instead of Luckyowl?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:02:17 pm
Question was not pointed at you, and was largely rhetorical. Did BK read why Toony's vote is there?BluarianKnight: why are you voting for Luckyowl, yourself, and why isn't Toony voting for that reason?...
English, motherfucker, do you read it?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:03:47 pm
NQT's and Persus' side case on Jim interests me. Would like a response to it.Ah, I get your point. Yes, I meant why BK was voting for Lucky, and why Toony's reason is different from that.Question was not pointed at you, and was largely rhetorical. Did BK read why Toony's vote is there?BluarianKnight: why are you voting for Luckyowl, yourself, and why isn't Toony voting for that reason?...
English, motherfucker, do you read it?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:05:24 pm
If I disagree everybody can lynch me, how's that?? Is that enough to bring you in??
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 03, 2021, 06:06:58 pm
BluarianKnight: why are you voting for Luckyowl, yourself, and why isn't Toony voting for that reason?
I voted for Luckyowl because he's been off all game - and he's done nothing but dig that hole deeper. But after catching up, I swapped over to Toony - for the fact that he's been acting off since N1 - as others have pointed out. His NQT vote is strange as hell - without much reason. So I'm putting my finger at him.
I don't see the point of voting Lucky anymore - he's too safe of a vote, and I'm starting to feel like he's either being sacrificed, or being tossed out by other scum as the easy option.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:07:53 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:08:12 pm
Vector
Luckyowl
Jim Groovester
IcyTea31
Just shoot the rest, there's at least 3 Town in this lot.
Lucky, if you post in this game that we are playing I will vote anybody you want, no exception.We're on Bargaining now, eh?
If I disagree everybody can lynch me, how's that?? Is that enough to bring you in??
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:09:16 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:10:11 pm
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere. But if that is how my townie brethen and scum want to go for. Then so be it.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:11:20 pm
Well, I'm gonna get lynch one way or another. At the end, I weirdly think ToonyMan might be town as he's trying his hardest to get me lynch. A scum player wouldn't have gone through extrme length knowing I'll flip town and they will have to justify their hard push onto me. Web is oddly passive, and I think town should think about that a bit.You know, you actually won't get eliminated if you do something.
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere. But if that is how my townie brethen and scum want to go for. Then so be it.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:11:33 pm
LUCKYOWL WHO DO I VOTE
Vote for who you think is scum. ToonyMan. If it's me then stick with that.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:12:01 pm
I voted for Luckyowl because he's been off all game - and he's done nothing but dig that hole deeper. But after catching up, I swapped over to Toony - for the fact that he's been acting off since N1 - as others have pointed out. His NQT vote is strange as hell - without much reason. So I'm putting my finger at him.Toony bussing Lucky, while not impossible, is a ridiculous world. I can't believe Toony would tunnel this badly on a scumbuddy for an entire Day.
I don't see the point of voting Lucky anymore - he's too safe of a vote, and I'm starting to feel like he's either being sacrificed, or being tossed out by other scum as the easy option.
Also, you know Luckyowl's flipping town wouldn't confirm you, BluarianKnight?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:12:12 pm
Well, I'm gonna get lynch one way or another. At the end, I weirdly think ToonyMan might be town as he's trying his hardest to get me lynch. A scum player wouldn't have gone through extrme length knowing I'll flip town and they will have to justify their hard push onto me. Web is oddly passive, and I think town should think about that a bit.You know, you actually won't get eliminated if you do something.
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere. But if that is how my townie brethen and scum want to go for. Then so be it.
What more is there to be done?
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:12:39 pm
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere.So it will get us somewhere?
Why are you self-voting? It's not a good look in any game.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:13:59 pm
What more is there to be done?You're at 4, one of which is your own vote. Move your vote to one of the players with 2, and tell Toony to do that as well. Voilà. you're out from under the gun. Please play the game.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:14:16 pm
Bb-b-b-bb--b-lUcky----LUCKYOWL WHO DO I VOTEVote for who you think is scum. ToonyMan. If it's me then stick with that.
*brain explodes*
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 06:14:27 pm
Caz, I know from bitter experience it's miserable to place in to a slot which people have already decided on. I'm willing to give you another day to show us that you're town. Just stop grousing. You've got as many votes on you as I do and I'm not being lynched today. And I simply overlooked your question before. As should have been obvious from the reads, I'd prefer a Toaster lynch over an ICT lynch and that's only grown as the day's gone on.
Yeah I'll quit griping now. :P
Do you think your Toony vote could form part of a wagon?
I mean... do I think a wagon could form? I hope so. Afaik when I voted him, it was the only vote on him at the time.
I can think of exactly one reason why scum!vector would actually consider doing this, which is, as I guess people have noticed, as a WIFOM-shield. So I'm not trying to say something along the lines of "yeah, it's impossible." Sure. It's possible. You know me: I do crazy stuff when I'm playing scum. But what I am trying to do is press people to see if their theories make internally consistent, logical sense and ask whether they really want to put their tinfoil hats on right now.
For the lulz? But yeah, wifom. I mean, I don't think you are on a team with Lucky. Lucky wouldn't have acted like this if he had someone advising him, imo.
ToonyMan I think is a convert.
Irresponsibly notquitethere, and I'll try to check in before the end of day but I doubt I'll see it.
3rd vote on NQT huh? please don't be the convert ;_: If you think Toony is converted what makes you want to get rid of NQT over Toony?
I guess I should be saltier about Vector's complete lack of a case on me, and the fact Web sheeps me on half the things I say and is still voting me. But whatever, I think they're town. They'll come around. Jim just seems to be the classic third-on-a-wagon scum sticking his boot in.
I could shift to you. But don't trust any of you four. And Lucky is awol. Probably going to show up in the last hours to mess with the vote and generally deny town info through silence.
FOUR? How do you get to four?? EVERYONE can't be scum.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
❤️_❤️
I don't know who Caz thinks will join their Toony wagon, but OK.
You know you want to. ._.
NQT lol
the proof even writes itself.
- Caz is mostly being reactive in-thread and had the world's sloppiest readslist, which was nothing but hot air, despite having watched the game since D1.
Hey, it was tepid air at best. There was going to be an actual readlist, but I got lost along the way.
...To the point. TOASTER? Isn't this you basically throwing away your hat at actually lynching someone today? If you had to lynch between Toony/Lucky/Caz/NQT, who would it be? Toaster is... interesting. But do you really think it can happen?
Between NQT and Lucky I could think of a few better people to lynch... Lucky not even posting is really annoying. I'm not convinced of NQT's scumminess enough to want him lynched now either though. And if town, he's definitely more useful than a town!Lucky (who is currently playing the role of glue in a Swiss watch). Also I don't know how much of my dislike/scummy feeling about NQT's mechanical stuff is just sore toes from that time they convinced town to lynch me in Mostly Vanilla on faulty data :F
Because I'm dumb and listened to the voices in my head after getting back from work.
?_?
ninja: THE OWL IS HERE
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:14:36 pm
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere.So it will get us somewhere?
Why are you self-voting? It's not a good look in any game.
Fine, unvote, Webadict. that's where I'm putting my vote.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:16:09 pm
I don't want to be mean. I just want you to play the game. I think you are Town. I think what you are doing right now is anti-Town.Well, I'm gonna get lynch one way or another. At the end, I weirdly think ToonyMan might be town as he's trying his hardest to get me lynch. A scum player wouldn't have gone through extrme length knowing I'll flip town and they will have to justify their hard push onto me. Web is oddly passive, and I think town should think about that a bit.You know, you actually won't get eliminated if you do something.
Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere. But if that is how my townie brethen and scum want to go for. Then so be it.
What more is there to be done?
Who is scum? Do you think it's me? Then please vote me. Make a case for me.
Who is not scum? Do you think ToonyMan is Town? Then vote people that are voting for them. Or make a good case for it.
Like, what you're doing now isn't helpful. You're self-voting. You're not pushing cases. You're doing nothing. You can literally avoid being eliminated by literally doing anything.
Great! We're playing a game now!Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere.So it will get us somewhere?
Why are you self-voting? It's not a good look in any game.
Fine, unvote, Webadict. that's where I'm putting my vote.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:16:22 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:16:28 pm
Webadict
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 06:17:43 pm
These last few hours are going to be interesting 8)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 06:19:37 pm
Also
The way I see it:
If Lucky is town then I'm in trouble and Webadict is either town or completely played me as scum. Blue is most likely just third-party.
If Lucky is mafia then I'm going to have unpleasant guests tonight, Webadict is probably scum...hmm..., and Blue is either third-party or also scum.
You know what Lucky, if you're town I do strongly suspect Web. Let's do this.-squints-
Webadict
Spoiler: Toony RN (click to show/hide)
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:19:51 pm
I mean, that's better than self-voting, but why?
Just gut-reading. But Web have been acting a bit too passive. It's a behavior that felt quite similar to his scum play in Vengekill 13 on day 1 and day 2ish.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:23:13 pm
FOUR? How do you get to four?? EVERYONE can't be scum.Actually, in Tric's world it's seven. Four to not trust, three to lynch.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:23:27 pm
Why webadict? also why not post until now?
These last few hours are going to be interesting 8)
I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:23:57 pm
I wish I hadn't wasted the man-ray facepalm gif.
AlsoThe way I see it:
If Lucky is town then I'm in trouble and Webadict is either town or completely played me as scum. Blue is most likely just third-party.
If Lucky is mafia then I'm going to have unpleasant guests tonight, Webadict is probably scum...hmm..., and Blue is either third-party or also scum.You know what Lucky, if you're town I do strongly suspect Web. Let's do this.-squints-
WebadictSpoiler: Toony RN (click to show/hide)
Point 1) You got an LOL IRL out of me for that, so congrats.
Point 2) This is an excellent point.
Why webadict? also why not post until now?
These last few hours are going to be interesting 8)
I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.
Useful in Mafia as well as in real life.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:24:45 pm
I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.Wait, bogus push? What alignment do you think Toony is?
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:25:13 pm
Also I don't know how much of my dislike/scummy feeling about NQT's mechanical stuff is just sore toes from that time they convinced town to lynch me in Mostly Vanilla on faulty data :FIn that game I was 100% scum and I was using a metric I essentially made up just to justify voting you. Notably, I didn't apply the same standard to anyone else in that game. This time I've used lots of different approaches, none of which I've used to tunnel one particular player, and many of which I have used before and justified in the theory thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132415.0). That make sense?
Tric has levels of paranoia I can only dream of. This is why I think they're town.
I honestly don't know what Toony's gameplan is, sheeping his #1 suspect.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 03, 2021, 06:26:35 pm
I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.Wait, bogus push? What alignment do you think Toony is?
I think he's an uninform townie. But still, I got pretty mad by those weak reasons. I'm a lot calmer now. So yeah.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 06:27:42 pm
Interesting.I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.Wait, bogus push? What alignment do you think Toony is?
I think he's an uninform townie. But still, I got pretty mad by those weak reasons. I'm a lot calmer now. So yeah.
Your big tinfoil scumread yesterday was Toonyman, what changed?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:28:24 pm
Hey if Lucky is town I still said I think Webadict could be scum playing me.
I agree, he's felt way too not angry. Where are my genuine angry outbursts Web? Of course now that I've said that you'll have to be really convincing.I mean, that's better than self-voting, but why?Just gut-reading. But Web have been acting a bit too passive. It's a behavior that felt quite similar to his scum play in Vengekill 13 on day 1 and day 2ish.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 06:29:34 pm
CazAlso I don't know how much of my dislike/scummy feeling about NQT's mechanical stuff is just sore toes from that time they convinced town to lynch me in Mostly Vanilla on faulty data :FIn that game I was 100% scum and I was using a metric I essentially made up just to justify voting you. Notably, I didn't apply the same standard to anyone else in that game. This time I've used lots of different approaches, none of which I've used to tunnel one particular player, and many of which I have used before and justified in the theory thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132415.0). That make sense?
Does it come in pie chart version?
LuckyOwl: Why is it a bad idea to lynch Toony? Do you think web is the convert?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:30:26 pm
I honestly don't know what Toony's gameplan is, sheeping his #1 suspect.It's this:
Lucky, if you post in this game that we are playing I will vote anybody you want, no exception.I can kinda figure out step three of the plan, let's see if it'll work.
If I disagree everybody can lynch me, how's that?? Is that enough to bring you in??
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 06:31:04 pm
Hey if Lucky is town I still said I think Webadict could be scum playing me.
So web is scummier than Lucky now?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:31:39 pm
Tric has levels of paranoia I can only dream of. This is why I think they're town.Agree.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:32:20 pm
That is correct.I think he's an uninform townie. But still, I got pretty mad by those weak reasons. I'm a lot calmer now. So yeah.I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.Wait, bogus push? What alignment do you think Toony is?
Yes.Hey if Lucky is town I still said I think Webadict could be scum playing me.So web is scummier than Lucky now?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:32:27 pm
You know what Lucky, if you're town I do strongly suspect Web. Let's do this.Hm, I deserve that, don't I? I see this going poorly for me.
Webadict
Anyway, I'd like everyone to consider Persus13 for a vote instead here. I'll be honest that I have no idea what ToonyMan is doing, but I don't really care. Seems like they're sticking to their word. Maybe they were tunnelling. I don't know, wacky hijinks are usually more my thing, but I see now that it is a truly baffling experience to see.
Persus13 started off Today with a push onto Blue for a potential Vampire fakeclaim and voted for IcyTea31. They shift their stance pretty fast on Blue and I'm not exactly a fan of their NQT and me Townread, but they do bring up a good point about ToonyMan on NQT that I appear to have missed earlier on. Their vote for Jim Groovester is a really big RVS style vote to determine the Convert.[#748] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698) However, in a later post, they believe that Jim Groovester was in fact the Cult Leader [#862] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255076#msg8255076)
@4mask and Toaster:Why does everyone want me to be angry? I don't want to be angry. I'm a terrible person when I'm angry. I like to think I'm a better player when I'm angry, but honestly, that's mostly just an excuse to be a bad person. Or maybe I am better when I'm angry. I definitely tunnel harder.
Hey if Lucky is town I still said I think Webadict could be scum playing me.I agree, he's felt way too not angry. Where are my genuine angry outbursts Web? Of course now that I've said that you'll have to be really convincing.I mean, that's better than self-voting, but why?Just gut-reading. But Web have been acting a bit too passive. It's a behavior that felt quite similar to his scum play in Vengekill 13 on day 1 and day 2ish.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 06:33:49 pm
I agree, he's felt way too not angry. Where are my genuine angry outbursts Web? Of course now that I've said that you'll have to be really convincing.
.......... he and I had a massive fight about this D1
....................................... why don't you go look at that
.............................................................................................. Web trying to be calmer and less volatile is perhaps a maturity-tell, not a scumtell.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 06:34:58 pm
Quote
Toony/Lucky/Caz/NQT
Uh ... of those four? I guess Caz, given that I think NQT, Lucky, and Toony are town?
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2021, 06:38:45 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:39:23 pm
Any other reads?
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 06:39:43 pm
QuoteToony/Lucky/Caz/NQT
Uh ... of those four? I guess Caz, given that I think NQT, Lucky, and Toony are town?
why were you voting for NQT is you think they're town?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 06:40:28 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:41:57 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
Luckyowl: 2: 4maskwolf, TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
Persus13: 1: Webadict
Toaster: 1: Vector
ToonyMan: 2: Caz, BluarianKnight
Vector: 1: Toaster
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
Webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Toaster, the Jim lynch could still happen. Your vote on Vector sure as hell isn't doing anything. Unless I missed a swap off it?
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 06:43:11 pm
QuoteToony/Lucky/Caz/NQT
Uh ... of those four? I guess Caz, given that I think NQT, Lucky, and Toony are town?
why were you voting for NQT is you think they're town?
I did a reread and reconsidered my thinking, then placed my vote on Toaster. Go reread the big post where I voted Toaster in the first place if you want to see the for/against argument.
I'll be honest, I feel like this "anger tell" is something from old webadict that hasn't really translated over. The only time I can remember web getting angry in a game we played together was when my dumb, immature ass picked an out-of-game fight with him in Para 25 back in 2017.
There was certainly the Shadowdump fight recently, but I feel like he's tried to become less insulting since the game we played together off-board when we, er, were trying to avoid moderator action.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:44:12 pm
Persus13 started off Today with a push onto Blue for a potential Vampire fakeclaim and voted for IcyTea31. They shift their stance pretty fast on Blue and I'm not exactly a fan of their NQT and me Townread, but they do bring up a good point about ToonyMan on NQT that I appear to have missed earlier on. Their vote for Jim Groovester is a really big RVS style vote to determine the Convert.[#748] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698) However, in a later post, they believe that Jim Groovester was in fact the Cult Leader [#862] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255076#msg8255076)I honestly don't see the case here. The only alignment-indicative thing in this analysis is the inconsistent read on Jim, but the first link doesn't directly say anything about the convert, and the second is about a gutshot, a separate context.
Even though a Jim lynch is for sure not happening? You're the only vote on him, I believe.I disagree, there's some wind for a Jim lynch, though it doesn't seem to be anyone's first choice.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:44:27 pm
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 06:44:38 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 06:45:09 pm
We have NINE players up for the lynch. It's all to play for! Hell, if we really try we could get a 13-way tie today.Bad NQT.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:46:22 pm
We have NINE players up for the lynch. It's all to play for! Hell, if we really try we could get a 13-way tie today.I'm actually pretty surprised I don't have any votes on me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 06:47:01 pm
Toonyman, if my hand must be forced. All things considered this was probably the conversion last night but there's surprisingly little movement towards it despite the number of people who agree.
PPE:
You're read as the Devil by several people is part of why, since a Devil is not worth the time to get rid of.We have NINE players up for the lynch. It's all to play for! Hell, if we really try we could get a 13-way tie today.I'm actually pretty surprised I don't have any votes on me.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:47:27 pm
I'm actually pretty surprised I don't have any votes on me.Everyone's thinking better the devil you know
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:48:28 pm
Also, you know Luckyowl's flipping town wouldn't confirm you, BluarianKnight?
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 06:48:50 pm
Toonyman, if my hand must be forced. All things considered this was probably the conversion last night but there's surprisingly little movement towards it despite the number of people who agree.
To be clear, post-reread I think it's more likely to be Jim, which is why my vote is there. I dunno about everyone else.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:49:31 pm
NQT:
Toaster, the Jim lynch could still happen. Your vote on Vector sure as hell isn't doing anything. Unless I missed a swap off it?
It's still there. I'm still happy with it, but... Jim? Ehhhhhh it's better than Lucky for D2. You'd have to be convincing. It'd be Toony over Jim for me, anyway.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:51:14 pm
You and Web fighting doesn't count. :-X Plus I mentioned in my Day 1 reads that my eyes glazed over.I agree, he's felt way too not angry. Where are my genuine angry outbursts Web? Of course now that I've said that you'll have to be really convincing........... he and I had a massive fight about this D1
....................................... why don't you go look at that
.............................................................................................. Web trying to be calmer and less volatile is perhaps a maturity-tell, not a scumtell.
There was certainly the Shadowdump fight recently, but I feel like he's tried to become less insulting since the game we played together off-board when we, er, were trying to avoid moderator action.This was what I was thinking of yeah.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 06:52:52 pm
Also FYI I liked your big reread post because you're right I'm still town...one of the few players who dares to check the facts and not call me a convert.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:54:00 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 3: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector
Luckyowl: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
Persus13: 1: Webadict
ToonyMan: 3: Caz, BluarianKnight, 4maskwolf
Vector: 1: Toaster
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
Webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Anyone on the fence:
Jim: done very little, made a very suspect bandwagon vote on me with no reason given
Toony: engaged and towny (especially on D1), has a strange interaction with LuckyOwl.
Web: is clearly town, I dunno why anyone would sheep Lucky.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 06:54:14 pm
This is good. Who else do you believe is scum?I mean, that's better than self-voting, but why?
Just gut-reading. But Web have been acting a bit too passive. It's a behavior that felt quite similar to his scum play in Vengekill 13 on day 1 and day 2ish.
I'm actually more willing to believe this because of their vote on me. I don't think scum!ToonyMan would follow through on it. It's just a little too conspicuous for my blood.I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.Wait, bogus push? What alignment do you think Toony is?
I think he's an uninform townie. But still, I got pretty mad by those weak reasons. I'm a lot calmer now. So yeah.
Web, this Persus thing is a blind alley. Look into it D3 if you like, but he's not a candidate for today. Take a look, does this spread catch scum with an hour to go?Maybe you're right. Out of the top contenders, I'm willing to believe Luckyowl and ToonyMan are Town (which, yes, I realize that ToonyMan just jumped up like 5 places for no reason, you can bug me about it later.) I'd be lying if I said Jim Groovester is my first choice because they're for sure not, but I'm gonna suffer some whiplash for this take, but I'd be okay thinking ToonyMan is Town over Jim Groovester.
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 2: notquitethere, Persus13
Luckyowl: 2: 4maskwolf, TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
Persus13: 1: Webadict
Toaster: 1: Vector
ToonyMan: 2: Caz, BluarianKnight
Vector: 1: Toaster
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
Webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Toaster, the Jim lynch could still happen. Your vote on Vector sure as hell isn't doing anything. Unless I missed a swap off it?
If ToonyMan wasn't Converted, than Jim Groovester is the next logical option. They've definitely drifted down in my reads. The problem with this line of thinking is that I have to accept NQT as Town as well. That was definitely a harder pill to swallow earlier Today, but NQT did point out that we've been mindmelding lately, and maybe that's more idicative of their actual alignment then I'm giving credit for.
You know what, I'm gonna drop the vote here and read on both some more.
That's all they've provided today. They haven't pushed for any cases of their own admittance.Persus13 started off Today with a push onto Blue for a potential Vampire fakeclaim and voted for IcyTea31. They shift their stance pretty fast on Blue and I'm not exactly a fan of their NQT and me Townread, but they do bring up a good point about ToonyMan on NQT that I appear to have missed earlier on. Their vote for Jim Groovester is a really big RVS style vote to determine the Convert.[#748] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698) However, in a later post, they believe that Jim Groovester was in fact the Cult Leader [#862] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255076#msg8255076)I honestly don't see the case here. The only alignment-indicative thing in this analysis is the inconsistent read on Jim, but the first link doesn't directly say anything about the convert, and the second is about a gutshot, a separate context.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:58:17 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 06:58:48 pm
If at the start of the day someone told me D2 was going to end in a Jim/Toony tie with Web coming second, I'd be quite surprised, but here we are:Might be the fact that I'm apparently going to be awake for the witching hour, but I have this strange feeling I've been here before.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 06:59:18 pm
Jim Groovester: 4: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector, Webadict
Luckyowl: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 3: Caz, BluarianKnight, 4maskwolf
Vector: 1: Toaster
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
Webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 06:59:56 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:01:03 pm
Web got mad in a recent game (MVM2), and I think he regretted it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If I had to pick from the current top three, I'd vote for Jim, but I still want to hear from BK before I'll think about that further.We know that Blue didn't start as the scumteam. The only thing you'd be gaining is knowledge of whether Lucky is scum or not, and that's only if Luckyowl is pious. I seriously don't think Luckyowl is scum, so it's a wasted vote.If at the start of the day someone told me D2 was going to end in a Jim/Toony tie with Web coming second, I'd be quite surprised, but here we are:Might be the fact that I'm apparently going to be awake for the witching hour, but I have this strange feeling I've been here before.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:02:36 pm
Can you define that color code, NQT?
It's the same as my reads list earlier: green is town, grey is hmm, orange is third party, red is scum. However, that Lucky read is residual, I'm starting to come around to the view that he's a frustrated townie. His play here is identical to Blu's D1. Feels he's facing an uphill struggle, throws in the towel with a self vote, is convinced to actually play.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:02:51 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:03:28 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:04:09 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:05:15 pm
That's a fast sidestep to Jim.Given the spread was 1s and 2s on everyone I think it's obvious it needs to be a fast step to someone if we're to lynch scum this day, no?
Bunch of pages after dinner and the vote has shifted to Jim why?Because he's scum. Look at his last post.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:05:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:05:51 pm
I'm feeling good about this wagon.I'm really feeling the Jim/Caz/Toaster scum team right now. IcyTea would be the Devil.
Jim Groovester: 4: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector, Webadict
Luckyowl: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 3: Caz, BluarianKnight, 4maskwolf
Vector: 1: Toaster
BluarianKnight: IcyTea31
Webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:06:18 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:07:04 pm
I'm down with the IcyTea31 is the Devil reads (which sounds a tad more sinister than I mean it). I think that's correct.Can you define that color code, NQT?
It's the same as my reads list earlier: green is town, grey is hmm, orange is third party, red is scum. However, that Lucky read is residual, I'm starting to come around to the view that he's a frustrated townie. His play here is identical to Blu's D1. Feels he's facing an uphill struggle, throws in the towel with a self vote, is convinced to actually play.
I also disagree with the Persus13 and the Luckyowl read, but the rest looks pretty accurate.
There's an offsite game where web went full rage mode in the thread?Never got a chance, and you know it, you monster.
I gotta point out again that since Jim already said he'd be afk at day end, we are trying to lynch someone who can't defend themselves. -.-Who is a better choice, then?
Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.I 100% agree with this.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:07:28 pm
Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.Or toony as of a few pages ago. Need to read, how much time is left?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:07:39 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:08:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:08:43 pm
This would explain Juice's super scummy end of Day 1 and why Jim has been so bad during Day 2.Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.I 100% agree with this.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 07:09:02 pm
BluarianKnight: 1: IcyTea31
Jim Groovester: 4: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector, webadict
Luckyowl: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 3: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Day ends ~50 minutes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:09:21 pm
Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.Huh. You're bouncing around a lot this EoD.
Okay I was wondering what other game you two had played off-site recently lol. I mean, you did rage a lot, but you did keep it out of the thread.There's an offsite game where web went full rage mode in the thread?Never got a chance, and you know it, you monster.
Not that you had a choice in the matter but still.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:10:01 pm
HEY LUCKYOWL I SEE YOU ONLINE
50 is better.. Not by much given some people are sleeping. Where is luckyowl's post.. And why is toony voting web?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:10:17 pm
Jim Groovester
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:11:26 pm
Who is a better choice, then?
How about someone who is actually online? So far people want to lynch everyone who is afk.
And why is toony voting web?
Cause as long as it's not him, he doesn't care.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:11:45 pm
I gotta point out again that since Jim already said he'd be afk at day end, we are trying to lynch someone who can't defend themselves. -.-This is nice. You're defending him now, just like Jim defended Juice x3 times.
Web
I also disagree with the Persus13 and the Luckyowl read, but the rest looks pretty accurate.I get why you'd disagree with the Persus read, but I truly am certain about this from D1. I'm starting to doubt my Lucky read myself.
Tric
Toony is sheeping Lucky as an inducement to get Lucky to play the game, which is very generous of him and maybe borderline genius play.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:12:04 pm
My mind is currently traveling at 1000000000000 miles per hour.Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.Huh. You're bouncing around a lot this EoD.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 07:12:54 pm
Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.I 100% agree with this.
I'm feeling this pretty strongly, too.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:13:53 pm
Actually, that's a lie. I 95% agree with it.Swap Persus13 for Toaster and I can agree with it, though.
Toaster is a good backup, though. I never got a chance to read them. Gonna make a legacy.
It's not ToonyMan. It's not Luckyowl either. It's not Vector. It's not IcyTea31. It's not NQT. NQT can be the surprise pick. 4 of these are Town, for sure.Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.Huh. You're bouncing around a lot this EoD.Okay I was wondering what other game you two had played off-site recently lol. I mean, you did rage a lot, but you did keep it out of the thread.There's an offsite game where web went full rage mode in the thread?Never got a chance, and you know it, you monster.
Not that you had a choice in the matter but still.
CazFair, and I'd be willing to compromise that they can be voted for last in that situation. The more flips we get, the better we're gonna be anyhow, and it's possible we just need more info.I gotta point out again that since Jim already said he'd be afk at day end, we are trying to lynch someone who can't defend themselves. -.-This is nice. You're defending him now, just like Jim defended Juice x3 times.
WebI also disagree with the Persus13 and the Luckyowl read, but the rest looks pretty accurate.I get why you'd disagree with the Persus read, but I truly am certain about this from D1. I'm starting to doubt my Lucky read myself.
Tric
Toony is sheeping Lucky as an inducement to get Lucky to play the game, which is very generous of him and maybe borderline genius play.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:15:55 pm
WALL! crashMy mind is currently traveling at 1000000000000 miles per hour.Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.Huh. You're bouncing around a lot this EoD.
Toonyman sheeping is bad and you shouldn't do it, and looking at posts your conversion is definitely a thing.
https://youtu.be/0FBdsQRtNaI (http://Take That!)
Put simply, the town energy you were emmiting yesterday isn't being emitted today. And you have been crashing down into scumminess. Either start thinking or vote for Caz. What makes you think web scum?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:17:12 pm
Unvote, I can't even with these wagonmates.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:17:37 pm
Toaster and Caz would be the D1 scum team, Jim is the N1 convert.This is a sensible conclusion, though it requires ignoring a couple points I've noted on other players. Of course, other team compositions would require similarly skipping a few notes.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:19:30 pm
This is just a post to say that I'm not going to be around for day end. I have no clue what the vote count looks like right now and I have no idea what's going to happen after I leave, so I'll leave it on Jim for gut read plus defending Lucky while also finding them scummy.Yeah, nope. Persus13 you aren't getting away with that. I call the webadict!
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 03, 2021, 07:20:06 pm
I voted for Luckyowl because he's been off all game - and he's done nothing but dig that hole deeper. But after catching up, I swapped over to Toony - for the fact that he's been acting off since N1 - as others have pointed out. His NQT vote is strange as hell - without much reason. So I'm putting my finger at him.Toony bussing Lucky, while not impossible, is a ridiculous world. I can't believe Toony would tunnel this badly on a scumbuddy for an entire Day.
I don't see the point of voting Lucky anymore - he's too safe of a vote, and I'm starting to feel like he's either being sacrificed, or being tossed out by other scum as the easy option.
Also, you know Luckyowl's flipping town wouldn't confirm you, BluarianKnight?
And? I didn't say it would anywhere in my reply. He's fishy - so I voted him. He's been digging a hole all gain.. but again, I still think it's Toony. I don't like this attempt at a Web wagon -
I got a bad feeling with the last few posts - I don't know exactly why, but I'm not a fan of a Jim lynch - he could just be busy. I was busy the last two days myself.
Seeing that the Toony vote just disintregated - I'm assuming nobody's going to vote the obv-convert.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:21:46 pm
"Sheeping is bad and you shouldn't do it" is a take.Rightly or wrongly, this is actually the default Bay12 position; it's part of what makes the site meta so different to elsewhere. People are expected to have their own reasons for voting.
Tric
(https://www.missioncats.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Water-spray-Squirt-Bottle.jpg)
Join a wagon, Persus isn't happening today.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:22:10 pm
Note: I'm working on this while watching the evolving clusterflop that is Day End, so this is a living document.
See here for my D1 read list. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253171#msg8253171)
Tier List, Day 2
They're fine, whatever tier: People I don't suspect. Unordered.
webadict I'm torn between "Still could be the converter" and "Is working awfully hard on coming up with content." If he's not the converter, he's town. Yes, that's a weird take.
notquitethere NQT I simply don't find scummy any more. He's posting a lot, trying to make things happen, and putting the work in.
Slightly Arched Eyebrow tier: Keeping an eye on these folks.
Caz He's trying. Has one read list, which is okay. I think I jumped too hard on it to start with. Still would like to see more.
TricMagic Fallen a bit more, really. Honestly, I don't have much of a D2 read on Tric, and I suspect he isn't the converter, so here he stays.
IcyTea31 If I was forced to point at a Devil right now, my hand would go this way. Could also be converter, could also be scum laying low. Needs more review, needs more content from Icy.
Persus13 The only thing keeping Persus out of the above tier is that he's being consistent. He's said Jim Scum all day, and is happy to leave it that way. Unfortunately, I don't see much in the way of other meaningful analysis from him; just commentary.
Don't like their play tier: People I have specific reasons to suspect.
Jim Groovester I've kind of forgotten he was playing today. That's not a good place to be.
Luckyowl Took him absolutely forever to engage today. Once he tried, he's posting not terrible things, but it took waaaaaay too long to get here.
Scum tier: People I'm totally okay with voting.
ToonyMan Top pick for convert. Unusual behavior. Screams at Lucky to vote, promises to vote whoever Lucky votes. Follows through, despite having Lucky as hard scum.
Vector Top pick for converter. I'm seeing a pattern of tiny factual errors, which tracks with a subtle Scum Vector; pushing town just off enough for them to run into a wall.
Claimed Survivor tier:
4maskwolf is (still) in my "problem to deal with later" tier. The more he tries the safer his neck is, and he (still) appears to be trying so far.
BluarianKnight Bigger fish to fry. Long time to start D2, but he's actually posted now.
I still don't care about lynching a Devil right now, though we have way too many third parties for my liking.
Ugh, I have trouble holding this many people in my head. I can't do relational tells well at this player count.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:22:34 pm
That's because I think Jim was honestly playing with town's best interest in mind on Day 1.
Then for Day 2 we get this:
Some random thoughts:
If webadict were scum I think he would just go to sleep. Making in depth reads on every single player is way too much effort to justify if you are both tired and scum. That said, I still don't trust myself to read him correctly in any situation.
I'm liking Toaster more on Day 2 than I did on Day 1.
I'm liking ToonyMan less on Day 2 than I did on Day 1.
I have a dilemma in that I can vote irresponsibly or I can not vote at all since I don't have enough time prior to day end to do another thorough posts.
I have misgivings about notquitethere but not a coherent case.
Luckyowl is indeed playing terribly and has basically disappeared, as has BluearianKnight, and I won't weep for either of them if they're gone but I don't think either of their lynches productively advance our win conditions.
ToonyMan I think is a convert.
Irresponsibly notquitethere, and I'll try to check in before the end of day but I doubt I'll see it.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:26:44 pm
Tric
(https://www.missioncats.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Water-spray-Squirt-Bottle.jpg)
Join a wagon, Persus isn't happening today.
Call me to join a wagon, and I will Caz. Problems with these low interaction end of day posts along with everything else. But Persus13 has the same issue as Jim by leaving a vote on someone at day end.
Juice was a lynch want for you yesterday. What changed with Caz?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:27:10 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:27:24 pm
This is nice. You're defending him now, just like Jim defended Juice x3 times.
...You have a problem with me pointing out you're all trying to lynch someone while they're afk? The trend for going batshit crazy an hour before day's end is stupid and liable to be swayed by scum. Even without hammers.
Can I go to bed now? :L I predict the wagon changing a couple more times before you all agree to lynch me. I'd rather be afk while that happens, for tradition's sake.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:30:00 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:31:19 pm
Juice was a lynch want for you yesterday. What changed with Caz?I told Caz I'd give them a day to settle into the replacement role and do their best job as town, that's all. My view of their slot hasn't changed massively since, but I'd rather not lynch them when I said I wouldn't:
Caz, I know from bitter experience it's miserable to place in to a slot which people have already decided on. I'm willing to give you another day to show us that you're town. Just stop grousing.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:33:22 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:33:44 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:36:03 pm
Uhm... if he's afk he can't defend whatever ideas come up, which can blow out of proportion easily, yeah. He's been pretty quiet today, but he seemed town d1 to me.Then who?
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:36:34 pm
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 07:37:10 pm
Who what?
Who's a better option to take out?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:37:41 pm
Who what?We're not done voting until the Day ends. If you want to defend, do it. Why is Jim a bad elimination?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:37:58 pm
I feel like I just mindmelded with at least half a dozen people.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:38:30 pm
Uhm... if he's afk he can't defend whatever ideas come up, which can blow out of proportion easily, yeah. He's been pretty quiet today, but he seemed town d1 to me.But his activity and effort dropped massively D2 (which it admittedly did for several others, including myself), and the lack of a nightkill puts conversion mechanics on the table.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:41:26 pm
I'll take the point about his activity dropping, but since I think Toony is the converted... :L
A bigger point is, imo, attributing activity to alignment is just a crapshoot. So you are trying to lynch someone on a crapshoot reason who can't even defend themselves. What does that make you?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:42:24 pm
Because activity drops hit most of the players in this game and Jim's activity was only what it was yesterday since he had a chance to play more on the final day IIRC.
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 07:43:02 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:45:53 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:46:14 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:46:50 pm
As in, a counterwagon with more than two votes?
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:47:52 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:48:51 pm
Jim Groovester: 5: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector, webadict, IcyTea31
Caz: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 2: BluarianKnight, Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Not Voting: 4maskwolf
Day ends: 12 minutes
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:49:44 pm
Toonyman, I suppose. Let's rattle the cage a bit.
Toaster, Tricmagic: Join me, let's tie up the wagons and see what falls out.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:50:27 pm
I'm voting for Toonyman? But, sure. What's the reasons for Jim? If it's that they've been quiet, then just look to LuckyOwl or Bluarian for worse cases than this. If it's for passivity, Vector has been doing this except they've actually been here the whole time.While I don't think Jim should be voteleader, I do think that they have enough scum equity to vote them, especially over ToonyMan and Luckyowl. I would probably have agreed with you about 1 or 2 hours ago, their actions just... seem like Town!Toony? Like, I just expect Town!Toony to push the vote on Luckyowl after they came back because Luckyowl had a really bad take when they came back.
I'll take the point about his activity dropping, but since I think Toony is the converted... :L
A bigger point is, imo, attributing activity to alignment is just a crapshoot. So you are trying to lynch someone on a crapshoot reason who can't even defend themselves. What does that make you?
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:51:37 pm
NQT's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 5: notquitethere, Persus13, Vector, webadict, IcyTea31
Caz: 1: TricMagic
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 2: BluarianKnight, Caz
Vector: 1: Toaster
webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Not Voting: 4maskwolf
Day ends: 12 minutes
Unvote. I can't really do anything about this lynch without opening a tie. Can't do anything tonight either.
Sure 4mask, more power than I have at night. Toonyman
Post by: Mamobo on March 03, 2021, 07:52:25 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 0 -
Caz - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 5 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255387#msg8255387), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255373#msg8255373), Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255417#msg8255417), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255209#msg8255209),
Luckyowl - 0 -
notquitethere - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255179#msg8255179),
Persus13 - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 4 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255475#msg8255475), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255271#msg8255271), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255473#msg8255473), Caz* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254813#msg8254813),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 1 - Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255083#msg8255083),
webadict - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255329#msg8255329), Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255326#msg8255326),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on March 03, 2021 at 19:00 CST (0 hours and 7 minutes remaining.)
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:52:58 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:53:13 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:53:30 pm
It's ironic that out of everyone else I can only trust web and the claimed survivor at the end of the day.
I'm surprised you even managed that.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:53:57 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:54:11 pm
4maskwolf: Still Survivor. Still Surviving. Not a fan of the Luckyowl and ToonyMan takes, but understand the rationale behind it. However, I'll take some honorary Townie points away. End: 80% Town
ToonyMan: I don't believe that a scum!ToonyMan would be as crazy as they're being. Willing to accept them as 80% Town.
Luckyowl: I think they're Town. They haven't done anything Today. I am a bad person for defending that action, but gotta find scum. 65% Town (but actually 80% Town)
BluarianKnight: Appears to have a family emergency, but was planning to post today. Still waiting on it. Not a fan of their Luckyowl take, but they're still showing Survivor to me. They can get the long lost 50% Town/Scum read.
Caz: Defending the Jim Groovester wagon pretty hard. I don't like that they're unwilling to accept that juicebox was a part of them, and while they can't defend JB's actions, they can supplement their own for a better read. Caz has stayed on the ToonyMan wagon all Day, and I'm now really against it, and their takes haven't lead me to the same conclusions. That'll tick them up several points from Yesterday. 90% Scum
IcyTea31: Wrong reads, but probably not scum. In consensus with others that probably is Devil. 50% Null.
Vector: Vector isn't scum. Period. What, no defense? If I die, Vector's 100% Scum. There we go. 90% Town.
notquitethere: Started off scummy. Started mindmelding after sleep. NQT is in my head. I'm going to get destroyed by them... 75% Town. You know what, if I'm NKed, they're 100% Town.
Jim Groovester: 70% Scum. This is such a steep read that I should be susssed hard for it, but ToonyMan isn't scum, for sure.
Persus13: Still believe that they're scum. I wanted more from them 70% Scum.
Toaster: I stopped on Toaster for my reads, but I was getting some decent Town vibes from some of their Midday posts. I'm not really ready to write them off as scum. I'll put them at 55% Town.
TricMagic: I never really got around to reading TricMagic today, and I'm very upset by it. I'm gonna push this towards the end and see if I can microread before having to post.
Okay, 15 minutes to do this Tric read: Votes juicebox (residual vote from the Day before). Blah blah blah, not much. Votes for NQT for asking why they claimed Day 1. That actually is a good point by NQT AGAIN. Suspicious a bit of Secretdorf/Persus13. Votes Luckyowl because they believe that Luckyowl is being coached. Not seeing it, it's a silly vote. Some more blah blah blah, suspects NQT (consistent), Toaster, Jim (top wagon), and IcyTea31. Also, Luckyowl (consistent), Persus13 (somewhat consistent) and Caz (also consistent).
No time left. I'll take them down a few points from Yesterday. They can be 57.5% Town.
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:54:20 pm
I'm not budging unless Lucky is here.
He isn't, even if he is online right now he's just not coming.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L9EPrZvArYo/maxresdefault.jpg)
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:54:31 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:54:38 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:54:55 pm
Though I really hate doing this with ten minutes to go; I thought there was another hour.If only.
You just tied it Toaster.Yes that's deliberate.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:55:25 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:55:41 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:55:48 pm
Post by: Mamobo on March 03, 2021, 07:55:55 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 0 -
Caz - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 5 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255387#msg8255387), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255373#msg8255373), Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698), IcyTea31* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255417#msg8255417), notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255209#msg8255209),
Luckyowl - 0 -
notquitethere - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255179#msg8255179),
Persus13 - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 5 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255475#msg8255475), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255271#msg8255271), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255473#msg8255473), Toaster* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255480#msg8255480), Caz* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254813#msg8254813),
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 0 -
webadict - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255329#msg8255329), Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255326#msg8255326),
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on March 03, 2021 at 19:00 CST (0 hours and 3 minutes remaining.)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:56:24 pm
Hot damn, maybe don't tie the game six minutes to go! Any reason for thinking Toony was converted applies doubly to Jim!The game's no fun if people aren't on edge the whole time.
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:56:56 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:57:04 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:57:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 03, 2021, 07:57:15 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:57:20 pm
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 07:57:38 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:58:05 pm
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:58:20 pm
Web, you seriously can't see Convert Toony?I mean, maybe, but not before I see Jim Groovester convert!
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 07:58:28 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:58:39 pm
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 03, 2021, 07:58:47 pm
Meph: Even if we don't end up with that situation, how are tied votes resolved?
Post by: webadict on March 03, 2021, 07:58:50 pm
I'm so mad right now.I DON'T WANT TO SCREAM. I AM TRYING REALLY HARD.
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:58:58 pm
Jim Groovester to avoid ties, though I still suspect Vector. Sorry Toony fans, but Jim's more likely the converter, full stop, and a solid convert choice to boot.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 07:59:05 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2021, 07:59:28 pm
Okay no takers then.-angry dog noises-
Jim Groovester to avoid ties, though I still suspect Vector. Sorry Toony fans, but Jim's more likely the converter, full stop, and a solid convert choice to boot.
TRAITOR!
Post by: Vector on March 03, 2021, 07:59:44 pm
I'm so mad right now.I DON'T WANT TO SCREAM. I AM TRYING REALLY HARD.
shoosh shoosh pap pap
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 07:59:47 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2021, 07:59:52 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2021, 08:00:08 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 03, 2021, 08:00:25 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 03, 2021, 08:00:54 pm
1 whole minute and the toast is burnt.13 seconds to tie. Thats all folks. See you tommorow.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 03, 2021, 08:01:29 pm
Jim Groovester: 6: IcyTea31, notquitethere, Persus13, Toaster, Vector, webadict
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Caz, TricMagic
webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Once again as the day ends accusations fly like arrows in war.
And, once again, the Count finally rises from his seat and everyone quiets down.
"Your votes, good people. The sun sets, and it is time to see what you have wrought this day."
So you vote, going around the table. Nervous looks and dark glowers abound. Many votes for Jim Groovester, but many also for ToonyMan.
But in the end it is Jim Groovester with the most.
He raises a hand to his neck as the runes begin to glow. His eyes take on an infernal red glow of their own. "What, now? No! This stupid magic can't work on me! It's human magic! I'm...aaaaaauuughghghgh" his voice trails into a howl of pain.
His body shifts and morphs. His skin wrinkles and tightens on his frame.
For a moment you see his true form before you. A hellish Devil, surely sent from the underworld to perform dark deeds during these uncertain times.
With a roiling cloud of black smoke he vanishes from sight, leaving only the thick smell of brimstone hanging in the air.
The Count looks surprised, but after a minute he collects himself and smiles. "Well, I doubt that creature was our main threat but I'm glad to be rid of it all the same! Now, back to your homes. Our Trials are far from over.
Night 2 has fallen. You have 24 hours to send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 01:15:49 pm
With the pale light of Dawn still cresting over the trees you awaken to the pull of the Binding.
It is time to return to the tents. Time for the Trials once more.
You all file into the tent and await the arrival of the Count to begin the proceedings.
It takes quite some time this morning, however.
And neither Toaster nor notquitethere ever arrive.
But eventually the Count does show up. His face looks grim.
“We lost two of our own last night. Both pure of heart, and faithful defenders of our lands. Toaster, our Seer, was beaten to death and had his heart ripped out. Notquitethere, who seems to have been part of some Coven of Witches, was burned to death by some dark magic. Foul murders, both of them, and show that we face not a single threat but multiple.”
“I implore you, find the monsters responsible for those attacks and bring them to Justice this day!”
Day 3 has begun! It will go until ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.
Note that we traditionally skip weekends. Not sure it matters as much these days, since fewer people go out to do things. But if you guys wrap up the day early you can always shorten.
EDIT: Had the causes of death reversed by accident.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:24:42 pm
I don't recognize the kill flavor on NQT but you're the most likely choice for an SK, given you got revived and there was no kill last night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:25:02 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:30:16 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 01:40:13 pm
=________________________=
Someone explain the 2 kills to me. Means no cult, right? At least not an ever-expanding one?
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 01:41:18 pm
I, Veckle the Magnificent, lover of justice, communed with Jim, Corpse of Groovestar, yesterday eve.
Although it is to say the least questionable news, given that it comes literally from the devil, Jim has informed me that LuckyOwl actually accepted his conditions and acquired a kill.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 01:41:59 pm
Spoiler: I wrote notes during Night 2 (click to show/hide)
I wasn't role-blocked last night.
Blue, why didn't you role-block me? I think you were too busy killing and I trust 4mask more.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:42:46 pm
Unvote
Are we actually in a multiball? Because burned to death by dark magic is definitely a dark magus.
PPE:
Ah, maybe Lucky made the kill then.
Luckyowl, why did you lie about taking the devil's bargain. Hiding your powers in hopes the town ripped itself apart trying to find the culprit?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 01:46:12 pm
More when I'm back from work...
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 01:47:36 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 01:49:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:49:29 pm
If LuckyOwl has a kill, why didn't he target webadict who he wanted to lynch yesterday? :LThat's what I want to know too. But since I'm like 99% sure Meph wouldn't randomly throw us into a multiball the killer was either Lucky, Blue, or a monster hunter that hasn't claimed (I'm not familiar with monster hunter flavor but "removing their heart" doesn't feel like it).
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 01:53:46 pm
I feel like it would be mauled to death but it's worth checking.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 01:59:31 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:00:50 pm
I assume that's as close are we're going to get to "we're not in a multiball".
Which means either Lucky or Blue was the killer since that doesn't feel like monster hunter flavor and werebear flavor seems to be "animal attack" so it's not a hidden werebear ganking someone.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:08:02 pm
I'm really feeling the Jim/Caz/Toaster scum team right now. IcyTea would be the Devil.I was looking back to see if I could find who Toaster's N1 peek was and man did this post not age well.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 02:09:38 pm
I'd propose Icytea and 4maskwolf as one team. Persus OR Caz with Luckyowl as the other. And blue as the loner third party revived by scum.
This has no logic or basis behind it, but I'll check through day 1 later.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:11:05 pm
Me, Blue, and Lucky.
So presumably he peeked either me or Lucky as benevolent.
Multple.. Caz, Luckyowl...This isn't a multiball. Quit your ridiculousness.
I'd propose Icytea and 4maskwolf as one team. Persus OR Caz with Luckyowl as the other. And blue as the loner third party revived by scum.
This has no logic or basis behind it, but I'll check through day 1 later.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:14:31 pm
Sucks. Not that the N1 peek would be clearing anyways because lolmagusconversions but it would have at least have told us who was definitely town and couldn't be the dark magus.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:16:18 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 05, 2021, 02:22:45 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 02:23:20 pm
@4mask:
I think you're right about Toaster checking you N1.
@Caz:
Forget you're a dreamwalker? Results please.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 02:32:48 pm
Also if I die tonight, I'd just like to say: don't lynch Persus.
Persus13:I'm certain its not NQT
Wait, why's that?
NQT putting secretdorf as townie off of a single post as well is pretty thonk.
Side note.So if you think I'm scum today, you need to argue why the scumteam converted me N1 when I was in the top 4 lynch choices that day.
Sort by postcount, become mafia expert. Secretdorf has a lot of wolf equity and his townread on NQT was just mrrrr enough that I'm considering that scumteam as a possiblity.
Caz why haven't you claimed your Night action yet?
Don't Devil kills usually involve copius amounts of fire? And how much can we trust a third party who already lost the game here? My first thought on the Toaster kill was that BluarianKnight lied and is actually a Demon. The other kill definitely feels like a Dark Magus to me, checking back on the flavor.
Oh hey, webadict's alive D3? Do we do the thing?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:35:14 pm
Lucky, if you're town, claim whether or not you made the kill last night. Don't try and lie in hopes it gets you out of trouble: you'll just hurt the town even worse if you do die and you lied about not making the kill, since that means we chop both blue to try and find the killer (who'd presumably be a survivor in this case and thus not someone we care about) or Vector for "lying" to us (may or may not be a wolf, but for the sake of argument let's assume town). Or both, back to back. So please, if you made the kill, just own up to it.
If Lucky is magus convert and performed the extra kill I think we're looking at Toony or webadict as the magus, the play there (lie about not taking the deal to have a secret kill, then use it to WIFOM the town) is a VERY fancy play that seems like it'd come from one of the veterans. I'd lump Vector in here too but Vector is the one outing Lucky.
If lucky is town and supersaints us on elimination Vector could very well be magus and/or magus convert.
Still think Toonyman has a lot of convert equity but we've got bigger things to parse through in these early hours.
Caz: Toony's right, spill the beans on your dream.
The fact that Jim was actually the Devil means Icy has hella wolf equity, I mostly left him alone yesterday because I was sheeping the idea that he was the Devil.
PPE: Persus claim seems legit, I was gonna go back and try and find NQT's buddy but he saved me the trouble. It checks out, NQT was big into "not secret/persus, literally not ever".
I'm glad I picked them out as a team on D1, even if I got the wrong team. I'm not completely incompetent, I swear!
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:36:09 pm
Don't Devil kills usually involve copius amounts of fire? And how much can we trust a third party who already lost the game here? My first thought on the Toaster kill was that BluarianKnight lied and is actually a Demon. The other kill definitely feels like a Dark Magus to me, checking back on the flavor.Wait wasn't NQT the one who died by fire? I thought Toaster had his heart removed.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:38:51 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:39:53 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 02:41:06 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 02:42:36 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 02:45:16 pm
NQT died by dark magic fire, which is consistent with the Dark Magus kill flavor. I just checked previous Supernaturals and Devil kills were either killed by superhuman strength with chunks missing or the whole house burned down.Don't Devil kills usually involve copius amounts of fire? And how much can we trust a third party who already lost the game here? My first thought on the Toaster kill was that BluarianKnight lied and is actually a Demon. The other kill definitely feels like a Dark Magus to me, checking back on the flavor.Wait wasn't NQT the one who died by fire? I thought Toaster had his heart removed.
Unfortunately because of the existence of a Dark Magus we can't clear Persus off that claim, he could have been converted and killed NQT for the towncred.Again, you'll have to argue that the Dark Magus chose to convert me when I was one of the top 4 lynch choices Day 1 in a 13 person game.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 02:46:02 pm
@Caz:
Forget you're a dreamwalker? Results please.
Tetchy.
Caz why haven't you claimed your Night action yet?
Is this a trick question? I don't have a night action.
Caz: Toony's right, spill the beans on your dream.
Sweet FA.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:47:55 pm
I want to know if Blue roleblocked anybody. If that can be confirmed then I think it really is Lucky and Web. The NQT and Toaster kills look very coordinated.It could also be all three of Lucky/Blue/Web, since in that case Lucky would have to be priest, Web would have to be Dark Magus, and blue would have been revived by a wolf priest and could full well have converted into a mafia member.
PPE:
I'm not saying I suspect you right now, because I really don't, I'm saying that I can't mechanically rule you out as a wolf.Unfortunately because of the existence of a Dark Magus we can't clear Persus off that claim, he could have been converted and killed NQT for the towncred.Again, you'll have to argue that the Dark Magus chose to convert me when I was one of the top 4 lynch choices Day 1 in a 13 person game.
PPE2:
Caz getting fuck-all two nights in a row as a claimed dreamwalker, while not impossible, is pretty -squints-
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 02:50:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 02:52:58 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 02:55:09 pm
Persus saying that devil kills are sometimes superhuman strength means Toaster could well have died to a Lucky devilkill, beaten to death and heart ripped out seems pretty superhuman to me.Yeah, I needed to reread the flavor. For more detail, Toaster's death in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1361440#msg1361440) is from a Devil kill. Iirc, Leafsnail was from the Demon, which reassures me that Toaster wasn't kill by a demon, sorry for throwing that out as a possibility. This is the Night action flavor (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2644016#msg2644016) from S4. One kill was house burned down, the other was superhuman strength again. Supernatural 9 had a devil who died too early to give out a kill.
Cool, than we're in agreement.I'm not saying I suspect you right now, because I really don't, I'm saying that I can't mechanically rule you out as a wolf.Unfortunately because of the existence of a Dark Magus we can't clear Persus off that claim, he could have been converted and killed NQT for the towncred.Again, you'll have to argue that the Dark Magus chose to convert me when I was one of the top 4 lynch choices Day 1 in a 13 person game.
BluarianKnight needs to claim what they did as soon as they can then.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 02:55:54 pm
@Persus:
I believe you.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 02:58:56 pm
Vector's claim seems legit, but also hard to prove in general.
Is it Mass Claim time? The big two question marks are IcyTea and Web who haven't claimed yet (and Toony to a lesser extent).
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:00:45 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 03:01:39 pm
Vector trusts me because they read through the whole game and came to the conclusion I'm not converted with points and reasons as to why. Webadict sussed me all of D2 until I stopped voting Lucky and then suddenly I'm town to him.Why did Lucky vote webadict then?
@Persus:
I believe you.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:02:57 pm
Distancing, presumably.Vector trusts me because they read through the whole game and came to the conclusion I'm not converted with points and reasons as to why. Webadict sussed me all of D2 until I stopped voting Lucky and then suddenly I'm town to him.Why did Lucky vote webadict then?
@Persus:
I believe you.
Or the wolf team is actually Lucky/Toony.
But I'm inclined to believe Lucky/Web over Lucky/Toony.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 03:03:10 pm
I'd like to see blue claim their block before we get any more claims.Yes. I'm just claiming I wasn't roleblocked for now.
I have no idea. Maybe Web told them to do it?Vector trusts me because they read through the whole game and came to the conclusion I'm not converted with points and reasons as to why. Webadict sussed me all of D2 until I stopped voting Lucky and then suddenly I'm town to him.Why did Lucky vote webadict then?
@Persus:
I believe you.
Post by: Toaster on March 05, 2021, 03:06:51 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 03:07:25 pm
Caz getting fuck-all two nights in a row as a claimed dreamwalker, while not impossible, is pretty -squints-
DON'T YOU SQUINT AT ME :@
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 03:12:42 pm
Caz: 1: Persus13
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, Caz, ToonyMan, Vector
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:24:18 pm
While Lucky hiding the kill and using it to try and WIFOM the town feels like a compelling narrative, especially since a living devil would never out that he'd been lying and unless there was a warlock (I think that's the medium-type role?) the dead devil couldn't out him, there's a couple problems with that narrative and with the scumteam picks surrounding it.
1. The only players I can see coming up with a scheme like that are the same players who'd likely know that any kill could be traced to its origin by flavor, like we just did. Aka the narrative falls apart if you look just one level deeper.
2. Lucky/Toony has a problem where if they were wolves together (with or without blue) their EoD yesterday was incredibly anti-wincon. Mucking about on a wagon that's never going to take off while one of the wolves is the second place wagon is just a weird, weird play, made even weirder if Blue was converted as well because blue was actually voting Toony.
3. Lucky/Web, while lacking any specific gameplay "it can't be this", feels like it has a meta one: given web's attitude towards Lucky I imagine he'd rather castrate himself with a rusty razor than convert lucky, two-for-one play be damned.
Unvote, though I'd still like to see if Lucky claims the kill or not.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 03:32:25 pm
Also, Toony, I literally don't know why you think I am literally insane. That doesn't make sense.
But, Luckyowl for now.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:35:17 pm
Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill.Does it though?
Dark Magus can roleblock, as can a Guard.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 03:37:08 pm
Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill.Does it though?
Dark Magus can roleblock, as can a Guard.
Yep, just looked it up.
Quote from: Dark Magus Role
As one of the most powerful practitioners of dark arts, you have many powers at your disposal. Each Night you may select one of the following.
Kill a Player (Counts as a Scum Faction Kill - No limit)
Make Yourself unkillable for a night (2 Uses)
Convert another player (1 Use - Gains the ability to use your Faction Kill, you will gain a Quicktopic when this is done)
Cast the Rune of Calamity - if the target player gets lynched they kill a random player when they die, except you. (1 Use)
Roleblock another player (2 Uses)
Inspect another player to see their Alignment and Role (2 Uses)
Give Yourself another vote for the next day phase (2 Uses)
In addition, you have the Ward of Undeath already cast, which can bring you back from Death. It will only work once, however.
...Does the ward of undeath mean we need to lynch them TWICE?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:38:30 pm
Yes. That's actually what happened in Supernatural 7, Persus got lynched on Day 5 and Day 7. Though presumably a nightkill could also pop the ward of undeath, if it didn't hit the magus while they were unkillable.Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill.Does it though?
Dark Magus can roleblock, as can a Guard.
Yep, just looked it up.Quote from: Dark Magus RoleAs one of the most powerful practitioners of dark arts, you have many powers at your disposal. Each Night you may select one of the following.
Kill a Player (Counts as a Scum Faction Kill - No limit)
Make Yourself unkillable for a night (2 Uses)
Convert another player (1 Use - Gains the ability to use your Faction Kill, you will gain a Quicktopic when this is done)
Cast the Rune of Calamity - if the target player gets lynched they kill a random player when they die, except you. (1 Use)
Roleblock another player (2 Uses)
Inspect another player to see their Alignment and Role (2 Uses)
Give Yourself another vote for the next day phase (2 Uses)
In addition, you have the Ward of Undeath already cast, which can bring you back from Death. It will only work once, however.
...Does the ward of undeath mean we need to lynch them TWICE?
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 03:50:24 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 03:53:42 pm
I'm not happy about Caz, but unvote.
Guard block has different flavor.Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill.Does it though?
Dark Magus can roleblock, as can a Guard.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 03:54:30 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 03:56:44 pm
NQT died by dark magic fire, which is consistent with the Dark Magus kill flavor. I just checked previous Supernaturals and Devil kills were either killed by superhuman strength with chunks missing or the whole house burned down.Don't Devil kills usually involve copius amounts of fire? And how much can we trust a third party who already lost the game here? My first thought on the Toaster kill was that BluarianKnight lied and is actually a Demon. The other kill definitely feels like a Dark Magus to me, checking back on the flavor.Wait wasn't NQT the one who died by fire? I thought Toaster had his heart removed.Unfortunately because of the existence of a Dark Magus we can't clear Persus off that claim, he could have been converted and killed NQT for the towncred.Again, you'll have to argue that the Dark Magus chose to convert me when I was one of the top 4 lynch choices Day 1 in a 13 person game.
Yeah, not buying that. He's town if covens are.(which seems implied)
I'm wondering what day 4mask wins on.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 03:59:22 pm
I'm wondering what day 4mask wins on.
Aren't they a survivor?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 03:59:37 pm
When the game is over.NQT died by dark magic fire, which is consistent with the Dark Magus kill flavor. I just checked previous Supernaturals and Devil kills were either killed by superhuman strength with chunks missing or the whole house burned down.Don't Devil kills usually involve copius amounts of fire? And how much can we trust a third party who already lost the game here? My first thought on the Toaster kill was that BluarianKnight lied and is actually a Demon. The other kill definitely feels like a Dark Magus to me, checking back on the flavor.Wait wasn't NQT the one who died by fire? I thought Toaster had his heart removed.Unfortunately because of the existence of a Dark Magus we can't clear Persus off that claim, he could have been converted and killed NQT for the towncred.Again, you'll have to argue that the Dark Magus chose to convert me when I was one of the top 4 lynch choices Day 1 in a 13 person game.
Yeah, not buying that. He's town if covens are.(which seems implied)
I'm wondering what day 4mask wins on.
Seriously it's not that hard to understand.
Covens are town the concern is that they only start the game town, and Dark Magus (which is now confirmed to be the scumteam by the "burned by dark magic" death) has a conversion and could have converted Persus.
It's not a huge concern though, it just means we can't mechanically confirm Persus as town.
All of which I already said and you're just trying to cast shade on me for ??? reasons.
I'm seriously tired of your shit this game.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:00:10 pm
Tric has been obsessively claiming I'm anti-town and trying to drag out the game for my own ends all game long, no matter how asinine that statement is.I'm wondering what day 4mask wins on.
Aren't they a survivor?
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 04:02:12 pm
I want Icytea and webadict to claim, as it's likely one of them is the dark magus.
Persus has a claim, you however have no results Caz. Along with wanting to hurry the train along.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:03:32 pm
I want Icytea and webadict to claim, as it's likely one of them is the dark magus.
Persus has a claim, you however have no results Caz. Along with wanting to hurry the train along.
What does this even mean.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:05:54 pm
We must lynch Icy, he has my hat.I want Icytea and webadict to claim, as it's likely one of them is the dark magus.
Persus has a claim, you however have no results Caz. Along with wanting to hurry the train along.
What does this even mean.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 04:09:46 pm
My pick for Dark Magus would be ICT, for what it's worth. Yes.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 04:12:48 pm
I want Icytea and webadict to claim, as it's likely one of them is the dark magus.
Persus has a claim, you however have no results Caz. Along with wanting to hurry the train along.
What does this even mean.
You haven't contributed anything useful after switching in and NQT who gave you some space for the day is now dead unable to press you. Convenient right? And you don't have anything to report from Dreamwalker, which is starting to fray. And we already had one Dreamwalker on town's side.
Assume you are a mafia-aligned Dreamwalker and knew who the devil was. would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town? Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:14:35 pm
Assume you are a mafia-aligned Dreamwalker and knew who the devil was. would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town? Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.Juicebox/Caz was an even less likely convert than the one you insist isn't a thing (secret/Persus), they were literally the CFD at EoD 1. Caz is either the Dark Magus or town, in my reckoning.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 04:15:13 pm
Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill, but I am working right now so I can post more tonight.If Blue confirms this then I also am strongly feeling the Icy/Lucky team.
Emotionally I am not seeing Webadict or Vector as scum...
@TricMagic:
Not sure why you even claimed Knight, scum would never kill you at night.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:15:46 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:17:06 pm
You haven't contributed anything useful after switching in and NQT who gave you some space for the day is now dead unable to press you. Convenient right? And you don't have anything to report from Dreamwalker, which is starting to fray. And we already had one Dreamwalker on town's side.
Assume you are a mafia-aligned Dreamwalker and knew who the devil was. would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town? Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.
Was supposed to quote this, my brain broke reading it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:18:45 pm
We must lynch Icy, he has my hat. I must have all the hats.You haven't contributed anything useful after switching in and NQT who gave you some space for the day is now dead unable to press you. Convenient right? And you don't have anything to report from Dreamwalker, which is starting to fray. And we already had one Dreamwalker on town's side.
Assume you are a mafia-aligned Dreamwalker and knew who the devil was. would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town? Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.
Was supposed to quote this, my brain broke reading it.
Aka. Yes, you're right. Frankly I'm getting to the point where I just want to PL Tric on the off chance he's a dark magus hiding behind a werebear/knight soft (and to get rid of, well, all this).
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:20:33 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:24:41 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:34:10 pm
You haven't contributed anything useful after switching inSomething, something, kitchen equipment. You've done nothing but post increasingly deranged theories.
and NQT who gave you some space for the day is now dead unable to press you. Convenient right?Not really. It's not like NQT was the towniest person around. And why would I kill someone who WAS giving me a chance, as you have so put? There's plenty who didn't want to do even that, lol.
And you don't have anything to report from Dreamwalker, which is starting to fray. And we already had one Dreamwalker on town's side.Not sure how you can blame me for either of those.
Assume you are a mafia-aligned DreamwalkerI want to know in what universe I got converted N1. You think juicebox was converted day 1. You were here for day 1, right? The idea is insane.
How does this happen in this mythical scenario? but, ok...
and knew who the devil was.
would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town?...do you remember people painting me as Jim's scumbuddy because I was literally trying to not get them lynched?? WTF?
Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.???????????
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 04:37:01 pm
Web, would you consider doing us a solid and running a full Mamobo?Mamobo Number 5? Sorry, this statement really amused me for some reason. Was Blu helpful at all N1?
My pick for Dark Magus would be ICT, for what it's worth. Yes.
I had him pegged as the Devil because of that. I'm still surprised it was Jim.We must lynch Icy, he has my hat. I must have all the hats.You haven't contributed anything useful after switching in and NQT who gave you some space for the day is now dead unable to press you. Convenient right? And you don't have anything to report from Dreamwalker, which is starting to fray. And we already had one Dreamwalker on town's side.
Assume you are a mafia-aligned Dreamwalker and knew who the devil was. would you want to lynch them so they don't give any more kills to town? Particularly when there was a knight willing to sell their soul for that power, to be able to use it at the end of the game.
Was supposed to quote this, my brain broke reading it.
Aka. Yes, you're right. Frankly I'm getting to the point where I just want to PL Tric on the off chance he's a dark magus hiding behind a werebear/knight soft (and to get rid of, well, all this).
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 04:40:34 pm
snip... Right, that post sends you over the cliff of my scum radar.
Put simply, if you were scum from day one, a good bit of that post is breakdown without address. And I was asking you if you would do that if you were dreamwalker scum who found out about the devil.
Right now I just feel powerless. There isn't anything I can do to help, and it frustrates me. At least having a kill in my pocket for when it's needed would be something.
(Persus has the right of it, Juice being the Magus at the start. There isn't much argument for them being the convert.)
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 04:45:55 pm
[MECHANICALLY CONFIRMED NOT DARK MAGUS] Persus13 - Coven witch, formerly paired with NQT.
[MECHANICALLY CONFIRMED NOT DARK MAGUS] BluarianKnight - former dreamwalker, rezzed, claims Lone Vampire. Still need last Night's action.
TricMagic - probable town, acting crazy. Claimed Knight.
Vector - claimed town warlock
4maskwolf - claimed survivor wererat
juicebox/Caz - claimed town dreamwalker, no results so far.
webadict - no claim
ToonyMan - no claim
Note that: we do have a relatively high number of players with no night action. It could make sense to give the town two dreamwalkers in that situation.
Note that: we are at 10P with one survivor, one Dark Magus, one convert, and Blu.
---> It is still possible that Blu is Dark Magus-aligned.
---> Regardless, this is something like MYLO.
IcyTea31 -> the shoe fits in terms of behavior.
- Did not deny being the Devil despite being frequently assumed to be such.
- It's a strong advantage to be considered 3rd party by solo scum.
- Heavily focused on "lynchableness" D1 rather than looking for scum.
- Has been tunneling me all game as scum - or - cop on little evidence, straight out of RVS.
---------------------------------- We know I am hard to put in the ground. The strategy of low-hanging fruit + tunneling a hard-to-get vet is an optimal low-effort strat. for scum.
---------------------------------- But framing the problem as cop vs. scum alignment will work well.
---------------------------------- It pushes me to claim a night power role "to explain my behavior."
---------------------------------- If I do flip cop, "Vector should have claimed."
---------------------------------- There is a good excuse for ICT regardless of scenario.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:47:21 pm
snip... Right, that post sends you over the cliff of my scum radar.
Is that GOOD? Make your words make sense.
Put simply, if you were scum from day one, a good bit of that post is breakdown without address.
A breakwhat? Address who?
And I was asking you if you would do that if you were dreamwalker scum who found out about the devil.
It's a made up impossible scenario so how the fuck is it even helpful to answer???
Right now I just feel powerless. There isn't anything I can do to help, and it frustrates me. At least having a kill in my pocket for when it's needed would be something.
Uh... Play the game and actually find scum? You want to be a YOLO vigilante like LuckyOwl instead? How is THAT an improvement?
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 04:48:33 pm
Mamobo Number 5? Sorry, this statement really amused me for some reason. Was Blu helpful at all N1?
I disturbed the grave but didn't actually try to reach out after all, because I was worried that Blu would rezz scum.
It was less that I didn't want my power role revealed because I thought I would be a scum target, rather I didn't want to help any scumteam PoE a vig or cop by ruling me out.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 04:56:09 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 04:57:16 pm
Literally to everything, lolTric.
The fact that this is probably his towngame and clears him as such annoys me to no end because if that behavior is rewarded with townreads it's never going to stop.
6 town max and we have to lynch scum 3 times with 2 survivors in the mix. Dark magus has a doublevote ability. Yeah it's mylo.Three times... there's only two scum, unless exactly Lucky was converted.
Unrelated sidenote but a Full Mamobo sounds like a wrestling move.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 04:59:37 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:00:45 pm
Lol Tric.
Three times... there's only two scum, unless exactly Lucky was converted.
Dark magus auto-revives.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:02:37 pm
True.Lol Tric.
Three times... there's only two scum, unless exactly Lucky was converted.
Dark magus auto-revives.
Actually it seems like going for the convert would be the optimal play here, Dark Magus can't use any of their fancy toys if they have to carry the nightkill and with the convert gone town can comfortably get two lynches in a row.
It also frees me up to always townside since one wolf can't threaten me, unless the magus has time to set up their supersaint thing.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:05:35 pm
Bluh I always use the short form and then realize my thoughts make no sense outside my head.True.Lol Tric.
Three times... there's only two scum, unless exactly Lucky was converted.
Dark magus auto-revives.
Actually it seems like going for the convert would be the optimal play here, Dark Magus can't use any of their fancy toys if they have to carry the nightkill and with the convert gone town can comfortably get two lynches in a row.
It also frees me up to always townside since one wolf can't threaten me, unless the magus has time to set up their supersaint thing.
Basically, if we lynch the convert then the dark magus has to either carry the NK or have no factional kill every night, preventing them from using all their fancy abilities.
It also means, since the Magus is gone for the night when lynched, that town can get their double-lynch on the magus without issue, because the magus cannot kill in between.
Also, unless the magus foregoes the kill to supersaint themself (or someone else, I suppose), I'm safe to vote for the magus the moment the convert dies because they have nothing to threaten me with if caught out.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:07:15 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:08:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:08:55 pm
OK, but since there was a Magus kill last night, doesn't that mean that they wouldn't be Supersainted today?Magus kill can be carried by anyone on the team, Toaster carried the kill for most of the game in Supernatural 7. That means the Magus could have set up a supersaint trap today.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:09:31 pm
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:09:42 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/MhWrJHz.jpg)
Double-voter?
I'm so mad right now.I DON'T WANT TO SCREAM. I AM TRYING REALLY HARD.
Double-voter?
*BREATHES*
Double-voter?
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:10:06 pm
OK, but since there was a Magus kill last night, doesn't that mean that they wouldn't be Supersainted today?Magus kill can be carried by anyone on the team, Toaster carried the kill for most of the game in Supernatural 7. That means the Magus could have set up a supersaint trap today.
OK, thanks.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 05:10:34 pm
I very strongly doubt that Town!Lucky would choose to pewpew NQT.
“We lost two of our own last night. Both pure of heart, and faithful defenders of our lands. Toaster, our Seer, was beaten to death and had his heart ripped out. Notquitethere, who seems to have been part of some Coven of Witches, was burned to death by some dark magic. Foul murders, both of them, and show that we face not a single threat but multiple.”I think Lucky killed Toaster and IcyTea killed NQT here.
@4maskwolf:
I agree we should eliminate the convert today.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:10:42 pm
Impossible, it's a night action to give them a double vote and they converted.(https://i.imgur.com/MhWrJHz.jpg)
Double-voter?I'm so mad right now.I DON'T WANT TO SCREAM. I AM TRYING REALLY HARD.
Double-voter?*BREATHES*
Double-voter?
Unless the dark magus hasn't converted anyone just to screw with us.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:12:23 pm
Unless the dark magus hasn't converted anyone just to screw with us.
Yeah, no way.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:14:21 pm
True votes then are currently:
BluarianKnight - 5 - Vector*, Luckyowl*, Toaster*, juicebox*, Jim Groovester*,
juicebox - 4 - webadict*, TricMagic*, 4maskwolf*, notquitethere*,
Luckyowl - 3 - BluarianKnight*, IcyTea31*, Toony
Toaster - 1 - Persus13*,
Dunno where Persus is. But it's back to a Blu lynch.
Unvote to prevent last minute tie.
No, it lets us read a revived Townie though.Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
BluarianKnight for tie safety.
CFD is in effect.... Oh, juicebox. My bad, didn't recognize.No, it lets us read a revived Townie though.Luckyowl 65% Town: Luckyowl is a weird case. I think it's possible that they're scum, and if they are, we're likely going to find out tomorrow with the revive.Wait, you'd trust a revived townie?
BluarianKnight for tie safety.
I hate that I'm okay with all three of these wagons. That's not how D1 ends with a competent scumteam.
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, juicebox, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
juicebox: 3: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, webadict
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:15:01 pm
I'll stop looking to see who it is in that case >_>
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 05:16:35 pm
Thanks 4mask for giving me a heart attack on Wednesday.Spoiler: my face IRL during last 5 minutes of Day 2 (click to show/hide)
Unless the dark magus hasn't converted anyone just to screw with us.I was thinking maybe they tried to convert Jim on N1 and it failed. Because I'm not seeing Webadict or Vector as converted.
But then what is up with Lucky, need to hear from them.
@MOD Question:
You mentioned in one of my previous questions that some third party can be converted by some scum team. Would you mind saying if 3rd party Devils can be converted?
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:17:46 pm
I was thinking maybe they tried to convert Jim on N1 and it failed. Because I'm not seeing Webadict or Vector as converted.
You don't think they would have mentioned this to Vector?
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 05:17:56 pm
Makes sense. And yeah, giving themselves a second vote is their night action.Mamobo Number 5? Sorry, this statement really amused me for some reason. Was Blu helpful at all N1?
I disturbed the grave but didn't actually try to reach out after all, because I was worried that Blu would rezz scum.
It was less that I didn't want my power role revealed because I thought I would be a scum target, rather I didn't want to help any scumteam PoE a vig or cop by ruling me out.
@MOD Question:NQT asked Meph this last night and the answer was "you don't know".
You mentioned in one of my previous questions that some third party can be converted by some scum team. Would you mind saying if 3rd party Devils can be converted?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:19:11 pm
Meph: If a one-shot ability fails to work, be it by roleblocking or an invalid target, is it expended or refunded to the user?Thanks 4mask for giving me a heart attack on Wednesday.Spoiler: my face IRL during last 5 minutes of Day 2 (click to show/hide)Unless the dark magus hasn't converted anyone just to screw with us.I was thinking maybe they tried to convert Jim on N1 and it failed. Because I'm not seeing Webadict or Vector as converted.
But then what is up with Lucky, need to hear from them.
@MOD Question:
You mentioned in one of my previous questions that some third party can be converted by some scum team. Would you mind saying if 3rd party Devils can be converted?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 05:19:56 pm
Fair point.I was thinking maybe they tried to convert Jim on N1 and it failed. Because I'm not seeing Webadict or Vector as converted.You don't think they would have mentioned this to Vector?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:21:41 pm
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:21:45 pm
I almost half convinced myself earlier about a Vector/Lucky gambitry team. I'm only drinking decaff from now on, don't worry.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 05:22:31 pm
Meph: If a one-shot ability fails to work, be it by roleblocking or an invalid target, is it expended or refunded to the user?NQT asked Meph this as well, but specifically about one-shot converts and Meph refused to answer the question.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:23:34 pm
After some more thought I've changed my mind from earlier: Lucky could be the convert, but only with Caz, Tric, or maybe Icy as the magus.
Oh believe me if I was on a team with LO I would have already bludgeoned myself to death.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:24:36 pm
dies quietly
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:26:54 pm
“We lost two of our own last night. Both pure of heart, and faithful defenders of our lands. Toaster, our Seer, was beaten to death and had his heart ripped out. Notquitethere, who seems to have been part of some Coven of Witches, was burned to death by some dark magic. Foul murders, both of them, and show that we face not a single threat but multiple.”I think Lucky killed Toaster and IcyTea killed NQT here.
OK, good point. Regardless: I don't see any universe in which Lucky independently kills Toaster -- except by being redirected to them for some reason.
Unless the dark magus hasn't converted anyone just to screw with us.I was thinking maybe they tried to convert Jim on N1 and it failed. Because I'm not seeing Webadict or Vector as converted.
In that case the conversion would still be available to use, and Lucky would have taken the kill, lied about it, and then killed Toaster last night.
I think it's time for a fullclaim. The knight is already outed, the cop is dead, the priest has used up their power, the witches are outed, we don't seem to have a monster hunter, and we might as well make it harder for the convert + magus to hide.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 05:28:29 pm
IcyTea31: 3: Caz, Persus13, Vector
Caz: 1: TricMagic
Luckyowl: 2: ToonyMan, webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday.
Info about 3rd parties and scum teams is generally hidden. If you haven't seen it in a previous game, I'm probably not going to say.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:29:10 pm
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:30:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 05:31:33 pm
Wait... if LO is town... then....If Lucky is town:
dies quietly
1. It goes against all my reads of him this entire game.
2. They took a one-shot kill from a Devil and lied about it, then shot Toaster in the face.
3. Either Webadict or Vector is probably scum. Or both? *shudder*
I think it's time for a fullclaim. The knight is already outed, the cop is dead, the priest has used up their power, the witches are outed, we don't seem to have a monster hunter, and we might as well make it harder for the convert + magus to hide.It does seem to be mylo...I want Blue to confirm their role-block on Webadict and then I'll do it.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 05:35:26 pm
Assuming Magus Team of ICT - Lucky - maybe Blu.
We're pretty sure Lucky killed Toaster.
If Blu on Magus Team and Magus has extra power: Web was RBed by someone else and Blu carried the kill.
If Blu not on Magus Team, Magus used the faction kill, Magus doesn't have extra power.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:39:01 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:40:09 pm
Meph: Can dark magus target their own ally with rune of calamity?If that's the supersaint thing they can target anyone with it, even themself.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 05:40:30 pm
Honestly those last posts at least seemed very town-thoughts. Not a great day for thinking magic, not the day. Too many clouds in the sky inducing sleepythoughts.(When some of my more insane ideas come out.)
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:43:14 pm
Meph: Can dark magus target their own ally with rune of calamity?If that's the supersaint thing they can target anyone with it, even themself.
They can target someone with a thing that if they get lynched, a random player is killed. The numbers don't really work out for that to be a viable strategy for today though.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 05:44:52 pm
Why did you kill Toaster?
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:48:09 pm
If Lucky is town:
1. It goes against all my reads of him this entire game.
No offence, but your reads aren't that accurate this game anyway :P
2. They took a one-shot kill from a Devil and lied about it, then shot Toaster in the face.
...Yeah. Doesn't look good. I know Lucky can be very YOLO with the coin flip but I don't even remember them suspecting Toaster. Not killing web makes no sense.
3. Either Webadict or Vector is probably scum. Or both? *shudder*
I'd buy web, Vector not so much. Too many moving parts.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 05:50:37 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 05:54:08 pm
I am a dirty no-good Thief. I can confirm that Vector is, indeed, a graverobber. I'd know one anywhere. They cannot be the Dark Magus.
I was trying to follow IcyTea last Night when something overtook me and I found myself unable to move. I thoight I got vamped, but it could've been a DM RB. Maybe a Guard? Idk seemed very supernatural to me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:05:04 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 06:11:26 pm
I will Mamobo in a bit.Guard is generally pretty obvious because your front door is locked. That sounds most like a Vampire RB, but I agree it could be a Magus block.
I am a dirty no-good Thief. I can confirm that Vector is, indeed, a graverobber. I'd know one anywhere. They cannot be the Dark Magus.
I was trying to follow IcyTea last Night when something overtook me and I found myself unable to move. I thoight I got vamped, but it could've been a DM RB. Maybe a Guard? Idk seemed very supernatural to me.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:15:06 pm
Lurker Track
------------------------
4maskwolf - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251254#msg8251254) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251422#msg8251422) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251456#msg8251456) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251531#msg8251531) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251549#msg8251549) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251771#msg8251771) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251793#msg8251793) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251794#msg8251794) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251797#msg8251797) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251804#msg8251804) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251811#msg8251811) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251815#msg8251815) 13 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BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251210#msg8251210) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251901#msg8251901) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251905#msg8251905) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251916#msg8251916) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251958#msg8251958) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251985#msg8251985) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252127#msg8252127) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252406#msg8252406) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252467#msg8252467) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252468#msg8252468) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252475#msg8252475) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252697#msg8252697) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252875#msg8252875) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252967#msg8252967) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252979#msg8252979) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253200#msg8253200) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253224#msg8253224) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253243#msg8253243) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253265#msg8253265) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253274#msg8253274) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253282#msg8253282) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253291#msg8253291) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253292#msg8253292) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253297#msg8253297) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253302#msg8253302) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253335#msg8253335) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254182#msg8254182) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254183#msg8254183) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254843#msg8254843) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255141#msg8255141) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255160#msg8255160) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255271#msg8255271) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255306#msg8255306) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255436#msg8255436) Last post was 46 hours ago.
Caz - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254744#msg8254744) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254756#msg8254756) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254768#msg8254768) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254774#msg8254774) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254782#msg8254782) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254784#msg8254784) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254813#msg8254813) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254815#msg8254815) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254840#msg8254840) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254967#msg8254967) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255003#msg8255003) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255013#msg8255013) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255142#msg8255142) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255281#msg8255281) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255325#msg8255325) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255330#msg8255330) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255349#msg8255349) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255351#msg8255351) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255364#msg8255364) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255401#msg8255401) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255405#msg8255405) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255411#msg8255411) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255419#msg8255419) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255448#msg8255448) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255454#msg8255454) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255457#msg8255457) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255462#msg8255462) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255479#msg8255479) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255484#msg8255484) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255506#msg8255506) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255511#msg8255511) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256012#msg8256012) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256018#msg8256018) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256019#msg8256019) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256053#msg8256053) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256076#msg8256076) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256090#msg8256090) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256097#msg8256097) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256100#msg8256100) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256104#msg8256104) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256114#msg8256114) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256116#msg8256116) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256118#msg8256118) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256125#msg8256125) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256132#msg8256132) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256135#msg8256135) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256139#msg8256139) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256146#msg8256146) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256153#msg8256153) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256157#msg8256157) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256163#msg8256163) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256166#msg8256166) 53 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256167#msg8256167) 54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256179#msg8256179) 55 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256184#msg8256184) 56 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256189#msg8256189) 57 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256190#msg8256190) Last post was less than an hour ago.
IcyTea31 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251304#msg8251304) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251796#msg8251796) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251802#msg8251802) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251840#msg8251840) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251857#msg8251857) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252183#msg8252183) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252247#msg8252247) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252250#msg8252250) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252299#msg8252299) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252307#msg8252307) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252323#msg8252323) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252366#msg8252366) 13 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(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255302#msg8255302) 50 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255304#msg8255304) 51 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255320#msg8255320) 52 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255323#msg8255323) 53 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255335#msg8255335) 54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255339#msg8255339) 55 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255350#msg8255350) 56 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255353#msg8255353) 57 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255371#msg8255371) 58 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255375#msg8255375) 59 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255380#msg8255380) 60 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255392#msg8255392) 61 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255417#msg8255417) 62 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255432#msg8255432) 63 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255447#msg8255447) 64 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255450#msg8255450) 65 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255461#msg8255461) 66 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255467#msg8255467) 67 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255501#msg8255501) Last post was 46 hours ago.
Jim Groovester - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251279#msg8251279) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252136#msg8252136) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252150#msg8252150) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252348#msg8252348) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252474#msg8252474) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252511#msg8252511) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252515#msg8252515) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252524#msg8252524) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252526#msg8252526) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252546#msg8252546) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252729#msg8252729) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252738#msg8252738) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252971#msg8252971) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253005#msg8253005) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253220#msg8253220) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253227#msg8253227) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253235#msg8253235) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253253#msg8253253) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253270#msg8253270) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253279#msg8253279) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253289#msg8253289) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253298#msg8253298) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253325#msg8253325) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254057#msg8254057) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254072#msg8254072) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254471#msg8254471) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254481#msg8254481) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254622#msg8254622) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254919#msg8254919) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254924#msg8254924) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254937#msg8254937) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255179#msg8255179) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256035#msg8256035) Last post was 3 hours ago.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:16:22 pm
Luckyowl - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251211#msg8251211) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252130#msg8252130) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252132#msg8252132) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252135#msg8252135) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252432#msg8252432) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252919#msg8252919) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252924#msg8252924) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252927#msg8252927) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252929#msg8252929) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252933#msg8252933) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252935#msg8252935) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252936#msg8252936) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252951#msg8252951) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252959#msg8252959) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253369#msg8253369) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253370#msg8253370) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253377#msg8253377) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253394#msg8253394) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253395#msg8253395) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254162#msg8254162) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254511#msg8254511) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254520#msg8254520) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254600#msg8254600) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254605#msg8254605) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254607#msg8254607) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254729#msg8254729) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255314#msg8255314) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255319#msg8255319) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255321#msg8255321) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255326#msg8255326) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255333#msg8255333) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255336#msg8255336) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255342#msg8255342) Last post was 47 hours ago.
notquitethere - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251310#msg8251310) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251816#msg8251816) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252258#msg8252258) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252263#msg8252263) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252311#msg8252311) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252381#msg8252381) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252425#msg8252425) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252450#msg8252450) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252539#msg8252539) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252545#msg8252545) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252547#msg8252547) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252648#msg8252648) 13 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(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255487#msg8255487) 110 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255493#msg8255493) 111 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255497#msg8255497) 112 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255505#msg8255505) 113 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255512#msg8255512) Last post was 46 hours ago.
Persus13 - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251619#msg8251619) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251812#msg8251812) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252745#msg8252745) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252769#msg8252769) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253139#msg8253139) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253145#msg8253145) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253148#msg8253148) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253155#msg8253155) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253156#msg8253156) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253176#msg8253176) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253177#msg8253177) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253204#msg8253204) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253399#msg8253399) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253411#msg8253411) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8253412#msg8253412) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254223#msg8254223) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254269#msg8254269) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254294#msg8254294) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254356#msg8254356) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254467#msg8254467) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254603#msg8254603) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254636#msg8254636) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254698#msg8254698) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254719#msg8254719) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254721#msg8254721) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254743#msg8254743) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254749#msg8254749) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254758#msg8254758) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254770#msg8254770) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254783#msg8254783) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254807#msg8254807) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254834#msg8254834) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254864#msg8254864) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254874#msg8254874) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254889#msg8254889) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255070#msg8255070) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255076#msg8255076) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8255362#msg8255362) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256040#msg8256040) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256052#msg8256052) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256060#msg8256060) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256064#msg8256064) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256069#msg8256069) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256094#msg8256094) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256096#msg8256096) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256127#msg8256127) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256158#msg8256158) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256165#msg8256165) 49 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256200#msg8256200) Last post was less than an hour ago.
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ToonyMan - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251184#msg8251184) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251406#msg8251406) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251429#msg8251429) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251452#msg8251452) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251593#msg8251593) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251788#msg8251788) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251808#msg8251808) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251810#msg8251810) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251902#msg8251902) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251907#msg8251907) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251915#msg8251915) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251925#msg8251925) 13 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Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:17:00 pm
TricMagic - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251170#msg8251170) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251569#msg8251569) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251807#msg8251807) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251822#msg8251822) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251826#msg8251826) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251846#msg8251846) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251869#msg8251869) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251956#msg8251956) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252074#msg8252074) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252270#msg8252270) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252273#msg8252273) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8252277#msg8252277) 13 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(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256030#msg8256030) 98 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256098#msg8256098) 99 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256103#msg8256103) 100 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256109#msg8256109) 101 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256130#msg8256130) 102 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256182#msg8256182) Last post was less than an hour ago.
Vector - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251167#msg8251167) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251368#msg8251368) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251529#msg8251529) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251617#msg8251617) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251853#msg8251853) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251854#msg8251854) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251887#msg8251887) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251891#msg8251891) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251897#msg8251897) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251941#msg8251941) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251982#msg8251982) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8251983#msg8251983) 13 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Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:18:18 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:29:51 pm
ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 06:31:37 pm
You didn't answer the question. Did you kill Toaster? Is Vector lying about what Jim said?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:32:56 pm
Why did I kill Toaster? Are you really serious about this? Lol. Let me ask you this, why would I even kill toaster? Right now, I'm putting 4maskwolf and ToonyMan in the same scumteam.Lucky this isn't about accusing you of being wolfy.
ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Supposedly, Jim told Vector that you actually accepted the deal and took a kill. The kill on Toaster was performed in a way that's in line with a devil-empowered kill. If you did perform it, just say so, and explain why. It's not about being wolfy, it's about keeping track of actions.
If you didn't perform it, then just confirm that you didn't, and we'll go from there.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:38:28 pm
@Lucky:
You didn't answer the question. Did you kill Toaster? Is Vector lying about what Jim said?
Bruh, Of course he is...
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:39:49 pm
You did not kill Toaster last night? Is that correct?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:40:19 pm
Why did I kill Toaster? Are you really serious about this? Lol. Let me ask you this, why would I even kill toaster? Right now, I'm putting 4maskwolf and ToonyMan in the same scumteam.Lucky this isn't about accusing you of being wolfy.
ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Supposedly, Jim told Vector that you actually accepted the deal and took a kill. The kill on Toaster was performed in a way that's in line with a devil-empowered kill. If you did perform it, just say so, and explain why. It's not about being wolfy, it's about keeping track of actions.
If you didn't perform it, then just confirm that you didn't, and we'll go from there.
Haha, for real. If I did I would've protected NQT. I guess I'm placing my vote on Vector. For that ridiclous lie.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 06:42:53 pm
Watch toaster claim a hidden track or inspect and was town all along.Why did I kill Toaster? Are you really serious about this? Lol. Let me ask you this, why would I even kill toaster? Right now, I'm putting 4maskwolf and ToonyMan in the same scumteam.Lucky this isn't about accusing you of being wolfy.
ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Supposedly, Jim told Vector that you actually accepted the deal and took a kill. The kill on Toaster was performed in a way that's in line with a devil-empowered kill. If you did perform it, just say so, and explain why. It's not about being wolfy, it's about keeping track of actions.
If you didn't perform it, then just confirm that you didn't, and we'll go from there.
Haha, for real. If I did I would've protected NQT. I guess I'm placing my vote on Vector. For that ridiclous lie.
Lucky, that is the type of question that's called a trap. And you couldn't have both a protect and a kill.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:44:04 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:45:28 pm
But that does make me wonder though. What type of deal Jim was trying to give me? He told me wanted my soul exchange for protect, role-block and night kills. If I knew the devil was a neutral party I would've accpet it and probably never bring it up and then revealed today that protected NQT.You only get one if you accept, for the record.
If you insist you weren't the one with the kill.
Then Bluarian Knight is an SK and must die.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:45:50 pm
WHat are you even talking about, Toaster is dead.Watch toaster claim a hidden track or inspect and was town all along.Why did I kill Toaster? Are you really serious about this? Lol. Let me ask you this, why would I even kill toaster? Right now, I'm putting 4maskwolf and ToonyMan in the same scumteam.Lucky this isn't about accusing you of being wolfy.
ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Supposedly, Jim told Vector that you actually accepted the deal and took a kill. The kill on Toaster was performed in a way that's in line with a devil-empowered kill. If you did perform it, just say so, and explain why. It's not about being wolfy, it's about keeping track of actions.
If you didn't perform it, then just confirm that you didn't, and we'll go from there.
Haha, for real. If I did I would've protected NQT. I guess I'm placing my vote on Vector. For that ridiclous lie.
Lucky, that is the type of question that's called a trap. And you couldn't have both a protect and a kill.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 06:46:56 pm
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 06:47:23 pm
And what of Icytea?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:49:56 pm
... Opps. Typo.Icytea could still be the Dark Magus, or less likely, the convert. Not sure what this question is about.
And what of Icytea?
What Icytea, as far as I'm aware, could NOT be, is the one who killed Toaster. Only an SK or someone gifted a devil kill (which only Lucky had the opportunity for) could perform the kill there, and given we started with two third parties I find it dubious that there were any more to start.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:50:33 pm
If LuckyOwl has a kill, why didn't he target webadict who he wanted to lynch yesterday? :LI am EQUALLY perplexed.
Oh hey, webadict's alive D3? Do we do the thing?Nah, that's a 95% chance for a Town win.
The fact that Jim was actually the Devil means Icy has hella wolf equity, I mostly left him alone yesterday because I was sheeping the idea that he was the Devil.Agreed x2. I believe that NQT got NKed and I got RBed because we were both crumbing as cop.
PPE: Persus claim seems legit, I was gonna go back and try and find NQT's buddy but he saved me the trouble. It checks out, NQT was big into "not secret/persus, literally not ever".
(Also means I'm right about Lucky this entire game and Web successfully broke my mind at end of Day 2 by telling Lucky to stop lurking.... I would never actively choose that, and you know that.
Vector trusts me because they read through the whole game and came to the conclusion I'm not converted with points and reasons as to why. Webadict sussed me all of D2 until I stopped voting Lucky and then suddenly I'm town to him.You were a very good candidate for the conversion, especially since I wasn't. I know for a fact Vector cannot be the Cult Leader, and while there's a chance that they were Converted, there is now 100% certainty that they did not start off the game as scum.
@Persus:
I believe you.
Fair. I did a quick glance over and saw I was blocked and it seemed vampirish in nature, but that's my bad. I don't think it was a Guard.Well, I was roleblocked last Night so that clears Bluarian of the kill.Does it though?
Dark Magus can roleblock, as can a Guard.
LIES. Luckyowl is lying. Vector is definitely a Warlock. Vector's claim matches everything I've seen. Luckyowl definitely took the deal and definitely killed Toaster. And it DEFINITELY doesn't make sense because Luckyowl should've killed me?@Lucky:
You didn't answer the question. Did you kill Toaster? Is Vector lying about what Jim said?
Bruh, Of course he is...
ToonyMan, I believe I know your role. Would you care if I said what I believe it is?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 06:52:48 pm
Sure go ahead. I said I wanted to wait for Blue but it doesn't really matter.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:52:58 pm
Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 06:53:41 pm
Bruh.Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
The only way there can be three wolves is if you're a wolf.
Is this a wolf claim?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:54:00 pm
@Webadict:Do you often put on your cape and wizard cap?
Sure go ahead. I said I wanted to wait for Blue but it doesn't really matter.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 06:55:57 pm
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.Omg... Luckyowl, are you serious right now?
So, the survivor, the Warlock, and ToonyMan... Are the scum? What am I in this situation then?
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 06:56:17 pm
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
And webadict is scum too? Lol. Lie after lie LuckyOwl
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:56:54 pm
Bruh.Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
The only way there can be three wolves is if you're a wolf.
Is this a wolf claim?
What? Well, I'm not the wolf? I thought we're dealing with cults?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 06:58:40 pm
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
And webadict is scum too? Lol. Lie after lie LuckyOwl
Well if I'm lynch you'll see I'm telling the truth. But of course I'm being set up as an easy lynch so mafia can enter Mylo.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2021, 06:59:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 06:59:45 pm
That's right.@Webadict:Do you often put on your cape and wizard cap?
Sure go ahead. I said I wanted to wait for Blue but it doesn't really matter.
I'm a Wizard. (https://youtu.be/VU__Y3mUA1M)
Night 1 I protected Luckyowl because I believed Web's read on them. We didn't know what the scum team would be like so I did it to deny scum from killing the priest before they could res anyone.
Night 2 I protected Webadict. I was this close to protecting NQT instead, sorry NQT...
I assumed that my targets weren't aware of the protection since Lucky didn't say anything on Day 2 about it. I actually slipped that I protected Lucky at the beginning of Day 2 but I'm not sure if anybody saw that...
If scum decide not to kill me tonight I'll try my best to outguess them and prevent anyone from dying.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 07:01:09 pm
LIES. Luckyowl is lying. Vector is definitely a Warlock. Vector's claim matches everything I've seen. Luckyowl definitely took the deal and definitely killed Toaster. And it DEFINITELY doesn't make sense because Luckyowl should've killed me?@Lucky:
You didn't answer the question. Did you kill Toaster? Is Vector lying about what Jim said?
Bruh, Of course he is...
Nah, out of spite. I would've killed ToonyMan.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:01:38 pm
I only caught it retroactively: I remember you making a comment to that effect early D2 as a "what if this happened" or something.That's right.@Webadict:Do you often put on your cape and wizard cap?
Sure go ahead. I said I wanted to wait for Blue but it doesn't really matter.
I'm a Wizard. (https://youtu.be/VU__Y3mUA1M)
Night 1 I protected Luckyowl because I believed Web's read on them. We didn't know what the scum team would be like so I did it to deny scum from killing the priest before they could res anyone.
Night 2 I protected Webadict. I was this close to protecting NQT instead, sorry NQT...
I assumed that my targets weren't aware of the protection since Lucky didn't say anything on Day 2 about it. I actually slipped that I protected Lucky at the beginning of Day 2 but I'm not sure if anybody saw that...
If scum decide not to kill me tonight I'll try my best to outguess them and prevent anyone from dying.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:05:55 pm
I actually wasn't informed about it. I just had a feeling you were a Wizard half way through D2.That's right.@Webadict:Do you often put on your cape and wizard cap?
Sure go ahead. I said I wanted to wait for Blue but it doesn't really matter.
I'm a Wizard. (https://youtu.be/VU__Y3mUA1M)
Night 1 I protected Luckyowl because I believed Web's read on them. We didn't know what the scum team would be like so I did it to deny scum from killing the priest before they could res anyone.
Night 2 I protected Webadict. I was this close to protecting NQT instead, sorry NQT...
I assumed that my targets weren't aware of the protection since Lucky didn't say anything on Day 2 about it. I actually slipped that I protected Lucky at the beginning of Day 2 but I'm not sure if anybody saw that...
If scum decide not to kill me tonight I'll try my best to outguess them and prevent anyone from dying.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:06:33 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 07:07:55 pm
However, that doesn't matter since I don't believe Blu killed Toaster because the kill flavor would be much more messy, so that means Lucky had to have done it.
Wolf is a synonym for scum.Bruh.Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
The only way there can be three wolves is if you're a wolf.
Is this a wolf claim?
What? Well, I'm not the wolf? I thought we're dealing with cults?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:09:34 pm
There's the slightest reason to think that Blue could be an SK, my vote is camped there unless someone else claims the kill on Toaster.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:11:34 pm
@Mephansteras: Does a Devil get to only pick one person per Night to make a deal with?
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 07:14:54 pm
It was definitely a Luckyowl kill. It's a terrible Luckyowl kill, but a Luckyowl kill nonetheless. I am truly, utterly, baffled. Unless I don't know how a Devil works.
@Mephansteras: Does a Devil get to only pick one person per Night to make a deal with?
Per Supernatural 4:
Quote
You are a Devil, here to seduce the folk of this town into surrendering their souls for power. Each night you may select a player to Offer Power to.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:18:46 pm
Luckyowl did not use their power to kill me, the person they suspected.
Luckyowl is a bad guy that killed Toaster.
Vote Luckyowl for elimination.
Honestly, that's a pretty Level 1 read if I say so.
Post by: TricMagic on March 05, 2021, 07:19:54 pm
Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
Why should I be looking at vector luckyowl?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:20:45 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 07:22:56 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:27:05 pm
Launch blue again and see what role they are.
If they're an SK we take a good hard look at Vector and webadict.
If they're a survivor we've still pushed back the LYLO clock one day (survivors count as wolves for the LYLO clock, a phrase I'm sure I'm not going to regret later) and we just launch Lucky sky-high.
Win/win.
#DefinitelyNotBiased
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 07:31:20 pm
You need to explain to me why you're town and who is scum.
Who is the Dark Magus?
Who is the convert?
Where is the second kill coming from?
If this is all a ploy to deceive town and cause us to mislynch you I don't think we can recover from it.
If you are playing to town's wincon you will take this seriously and answer me.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 07:39:34 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 07:40:59 pm
I'm not sure how dark magus playstyle works. But I would go out of a whim and say Dark Magus is 4maskwolf and the convert has to be Vector. But I'm willing to believe that Jim gave Vector the wrong info to throw off the game for town and get me lynch for kicks. Or maybe a redirect? If that's the case then I think we might have a ToonyMan/Webadict.
The second kill is obviously an SK. Which easily leaves blu as the SK.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:42:15 pm
I'm town because I know I am town.Then let's lynch blue!
I'm not sure how dark magus playstyle works. But I would go out of a whim and say Dark Magus is 4maskwolf and the convert has to be Vector. But I'm willing to believe that Jim gave Vector the wrong info to throw off the game for town and get me lynch for kicks. Or maybe a redirect? If that's the case then I think we might have a ToonyMan/Webadict.
The second kill is obviously an SK. Which easily leaves blu as the SK.
Also Dark Magus open-claiming survivor would top pretty much any gambit I've done in the past, and that's saying something. It's a fun take, though.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 07:45:29 pm
Vector:
I have no strong cases against.
Very active and contributing.
My trust of Vector ---> [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]
Luckyowl:
I have spent most of this game finding them suspicious, have a huge case against them.
Has done nothing.
My trust of Luckyowl ---> []
@4maskwolf:
TricMagic doesn't read the thread dude. They just post.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
Why should I be looking at vector luckyowl?
Because the claim in my eyes is wrong. Therefore Vector is seems to be scummy. But again I'm willing to trust Web and say Jim is probably being unreliable for jokes.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 07:46:26 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 07:51:19 pm
A Devil can only give one Devil power per Night.
Luckyowl killed Toaster. There is no other explanation, unless there is a SECOND DEVIL???
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:52:20 pm
No, here's the thing: Someone killed Toaster. They did so with Devil kill powers. Luckyowl literally claimed being given a Devil choice and saying no.Imagine randing a third party with actual abilities.
A Devil can only give one Devil power per Night.
Luckyowl killed Toaster. There is no other explanation, unless there is a SECOND DEVIL???
Couldn't be me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 07:53:05 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 07:59:44 pm
No, here's the thing: Someone killed Toaster. They did so with Devil kill powers. Luckyowl literally claimed being given a Devil choice and saying no.
A Devil can only give one Devil power per Night.
Luckyowl killed Toaster. There is no other explanation, unless there is a SECOND DEVIL???
Are you mad?! I haven't done anything last night. I refuse the devil deal and used my one shot ability to rez Blu. Why do we need a second devil? I pretty sure someone might be a third-party with a night kill.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 08:06:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 08:07:05 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 08:09:14 pm
Because you're lying!No, here's the thing: Someone killed Toaster. They did so with Devil kill powers. Luckyowl literally claimed being given a Devil choice and saying no.
A Devil can only give one Devil power per Night.
Luckyowl killed Toaster. There is no other explanation, unless there is a SECOND DEVIL???
Are you mad?! I haven't done anything last night. I refuse the devil deal and used my one shot ability to rez Blu. Why do we need a second devil? I pretty sure someone might be a third-party with a night kill.
Can somebody link the differences between known third-party kills?I'll start looking.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 08:11:45 pm
Werebear: Animal attack (the werebear SK never got to kill but normal werebears use this flavor so presumably an SK version would too)
Necromancer: Dunno, also doesn't matter because there's no way a necromancer killed last night.
Ghoul: devouring corpses, little left over
Demon: Only one I saw the demon made an absolute mess of the place
Devil kills: Lots of fire, burn everything (not Dark Magus style though, EVERYTHING burns) or hulking out and smashing the crap out of someone.
Am I missing any third party kills?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 08:19:41 pm
You can Devil kill on the Night you get the power.
...
@Meph: If a Warlock talked to a dead Devil, could they make a deal with them?
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 08:25:08 pm
@Meph: If a Warlock talked to a dead Devil, could they make a deal with them?
I don't believe that scenario came up in previous games.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 08:27:42 pm
So, the idea would be that someone converts me N1, I disturb Blu's grave, I'm scum for all of D2, I disturb Jim's grave, I get a kill, I use the kill, and my Dark Magus buddy who converted me did the main NK on NQT?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 08:46:27 pm
That's an extremely clever idea, but not one I thought of.I mean, certainly a possibility, no? I can't get good answers about powers I don't have, unfortunately, so I can't disprove it, but we are relying on you for information we don't have access to. You're the one that says Jim said Luckyowl took the devil deal. And it could be mylo right now. Just... Lots of factors to consider.
So, the idea would be that someone converts me N1, I disturb Blu's grave, I'm scum for all of D2, I disturb Jim's grave, I get a kill, I use the kill, and my Dark Magus buddy who converted me did the main NK on NQT?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 08:54:15 pm
Heeeeeeeeeeeey buddddddddddddddy!
Who'd you block last night.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 08:55:21 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 08:56:16 pm
I don't think Lucky killed Toaster last night - he was the person I blocked, not Webadict.That's, uh...
You do realize that by saying Lucky didn't do the kill you're claiming the kill, right?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 08:56:34 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 08:58:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The question is if you can actually talk to the dead AND accept a Devil power AND use it all in the same Night. I'm still looking.
Because that seems very much like it all pieces together, no?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:00:32 pm
Proof you can kill the Night you receive a deal:I disagree. For one, Meph games have a pretty strict "one action per night" rule, and Warlock meeting someone is an action so they shouldn't be able to take both actions in one night. In that action you posted the Warlock chose to take no action that night and was thus able to make the kill concurrently.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The question is if you can actually talk to the dead AND accept a Devil power AND use it all in the same Night. I'm still looking.
Because that seems very much like it all pieces together, no?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:00:55 pm
Kill it with fire.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:02:44 pm
True. It's a possibility.Proof you can kill the Night you receive a deal:I disagree. For one, Meph games have a pretty strict "one action per night" rule, and Warlock meeting someone is an action so they shouldn't be able to take both actions in one night. In that action you posted the Warlock chose to take no action that night and was thus able to make the kill concurrently.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The question is if you can actually talk to the dead AND accept a Devil power AND use it all in the same Night. I'm still looking.
Because that seems very much like it all pieces together, no?
Okay, so maybe...
Maybe... Maybe Luckyowl is a Necromancer? And Bluarian is a Zombie?
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 09:03:21 pm
If I was SK, why wouldn't I take the Web claim?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:03:58 pm
Preeeeeeeety sure Necromancers don't work like that.True. It's a possibility.Proof you can kill the Night you receive a deal:I disagree. For one, Meph games have a pretty strict "one action per night" rule, and Warlock meeting someone is an action so they shouldn't be able to take both actions in one night. In that action you posted the Warlock chose to take no action that night and was thus able to make the kill concurrently.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The question is if you can actually talk to the dead AND accept a Devil power AND use it all in the same Night. I'm still looking.
Because that seems very much like it all pieces together, no?
Okay, so maybe...
Maybe... Maybe Luckyowl is a Necromancer? And Bluarian is a Zombie?
The zombie is revived privately, though it is targetable, but the zombie cannot speak during the day and can only be directed by the necromancer at night. It can be targeted with night actions though.
Blue is just an SK. Kill it with fire.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:04:28 pm
Here's another question: Why the fuck would BK block Lucky when Lucky is supposedly powerless?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:05:21 pm
And there's a Dark Magus ~somewhere else~?Apparently to kill Luckyowl?
Here's another question: Why the fuck would BK block Lucky when Lucky is supposedly powerless?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:05:33 pm
Because I was aiming to kill him N3, if you lot decided not to kill him.Okay understand.
If I was SK, why wouldn't I take the Web claim?
Your claim relies on there somehow being three third parties at the start of this game.
Two of whom could potentially meet one kill or more a night (SK, Devil).
Alongside the scumteam.
And a priest who will revive someone as, gasp, another fucking third party.
I don't buy it.
And there's a Dark Magus ~somewhere else~?My point exactly. Or one of them, anyway. And he never actually answered that question.
Here's another question: Why the fuck would BK block Lucky when Lucky is supposedly powerless?
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:06:10 pm
...Man, this game mode is super confusing.And there's a Dark Magus ~somewhere else~?Apparently to kill Luckyowl?
Here's another question: Why the fuck would BK block Lucky when Lucky is supposedly powerless?
uh huh,
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:06:40 pm
Bravo, excellent logic there.
Not.
You'd have a better case for claiming you roleblocked ME for that reason, since at least I could theoretically be an SK. Lucky was one of the only players in the game who could be confirmed to NOT be an SK.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:10:21 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 09:12:07 pm
Fine, here's what I did last night;
I targeted Toaster.
Sure seems grand, being that I've targeted the guy who died last night, huh?
Again - I did not block Web - please note that down.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:13:22 pm
Luckyowl is powerless? Fuck....
Fine, here's what I did last night;
I targeted Toaster.
Sure seems grand, being that I've targeted the guy who died last night, huh?
Again - I did not block Web - please note that down.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:13:52 pm
Luckyowl is powerless? Fuck.Pretty sure this is an SK claim.
Fine, here's what I did last night;
I targeted Toaster.
Sure seems grand, being that I've targeted the guy who died last night, huh?
Again - I did not block Web - please note that down.
Also, I know you didn't block web, I recognized the way web described his block from when a Dark Magus roleblocked me. They just... stop you, mystically. You can't do what you were trying to do. In my case my connection to the gods was cut off and I found myself trapped in my meditation state unable to connect with them.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:16:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:17:09 pm
OK, that's an outed scumteam. You claimed to block Lucky so that Lucky wouldn't take the fire for the kill, now you're claiming you blocked Toaster since you've been caught.Can we kill blue first?
There's still technically the possibility (however faint the possibility is) the Lucky is innocent while Blue is literally always the enemy here.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:17:55 pm
Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.
Is that right?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:18:57 pm
So, let me get this straight. We're claiming that:Seems to be? Alternatively, Dark Magus blocks Web, the convert factionkills NQT and Blue SK kills Toaster.
Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.
Is that right?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:20:15 pm
So, let me get this straight. We're claiming that:Dark Magus converted Luckyowl N1.
Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.
Is that right?
Luckyowl is Pious, so BluarianKnight is converted as well.
Luckyowl takes the Devil deal.
Luckyowl kills Toaster.
Bluarian factions kills NQT.
Dark Magus kills me.
That fits perfectly.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:21:34 pm
I meant to type blocks me, but I'm dumb.So, let me get this straight. We're claiming that:Dark Magus converted Luckyowl N1.
Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.
Is that right?
Luckyowl is Pious, so BluarianKnight is converted as well.
Luckyowl takes the Devil deal.
Luckyowl kills Toaster.
Bluarian factions kills NQT.
Dark Magus blocks me.
That fits perfectly.
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:24:34 pm
But, anyway: unless someone says to the contrary, I think we should handle BK first like 4mask says. The wild chainsawing suggests that he's on a team with Lucky but it's also true that Lynch all Liars is in effect and he's obviously lying.
Bluarian Knight.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:25:56 pm
I really don't want to lose to getting spitekilled by an SK if we're wrong about them all being a scumteam together.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:26:24 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 09:31:28 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:33:22 pm
I'm not the SK - nor converted. I said the truth, and I'm being thrown under the bus because of it.You LITERALLY said that you blocked Luckyowl, in an attempt to clear them.
Nah, not buying it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:33:55 pm
I'm not the SK - nor converted. I said the truth, and I'm being thrown under the bus because of it.Then who killed Toaster.
Why did you claim to target Lucky if that wasn't true?
Who are the wolves?
Why did you block Toaster last night?
Post by: Mamobo on March 05, 2021, 09:34:41 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf - 0 -
BluarianKnight - 3 - webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256343#msg8256343), Vector* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256341#msg8256341), 4maskwolf* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256222#msg8256222),
Caz - 0 -
IcyTea31 - 1 - Persus13* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256127#msg8256127),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
Luckyowl - 2 - ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256058#msg8256058), Caz* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256236#msg8256236),
notquitethere - 0 -
Persus13 - 0 -
Toaster - 0 -
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
Vector - 1 - Luckyowl* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256218#msg8256218),
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 6 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8256182#msg8256182), BluarianKnight, Toaster, Jim Groovester, IcyTea31, notquitethere,
Day ends on March 09, 2021 at 19:00 CST (~94 hours remaining).
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:35:37 pm
Not Voting - 6 - Toaster, Jim Groovester, notquitethere,Go home Mamobo you're drunk.
Day ends on March 09, 2021 at 19:00 CST (~94 hours remaining).[/font]
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:43:36 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 05, 2021, 09:43:41 pm
I'm not the SK - nor converted. I said the truth, and I'm being thrown under the bus because of it.Then who killed Toaster.
Why did you claim to target Lucky if that wasn't true?
Who are the wolves?
Why did you block Toaster last night?
1. No clue.
2. Because I have an agenda.
3. No clue, really - my guess right now is Lucky, Toony, ICT, and someone else.
4. I killed him with a devil's bargain, while role-blocking him to ensure he couldn't stop me.
You wanna vote me out? Go ahead, but I'll put my word out. Toaster was on my list of 'probable convertor' after Jim - Toony was recent convert, ICT was my third pick, and Lucky had too much heat to be the convertor.
I'd put my bets Web or Veckle's jumping on this train to cover their team's asses.
IcyTea31, if my vote matters.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:45:47 pm
Like straight up.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:46:04 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:46:25 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 09:48:12 pm
Also, the fact that you have a Devil deal means there's a second Devil, since Jim is sorta, you know, dead, so that sort of ALSO doesn't work. Unless you're suggesting that's the case?
Or would you like to try one more time?
Post by: Vector on March 05, 2021, 09:49:33 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 09:50:06 pm
Toaster was on my list of 'probable convertor' after JimFor the record, this is why I think SK over wolf. He's literally admitting his reasoning for the kill here: he thought he had a bead on the wolfteam to further his wincon and missed.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 10:12:20 pm
Also keep in mind when reading 4mask's posts that 4mask has strong reasons to want to kill Blu because they're the main person who can cause them to lose.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 10:15:31 pm
I'd still like to hear from Icytea.I mean.
Also keep in mind when reading 4mask's posts that 4mask has strong reasons to want to kill Blu because they're the main person who can cause them to lose.
Yes.
But even saying this is an admission you think blue is an SK.
Which is an anti-town role.
Which needs to die.
And it's not like I'm pushing for us to shorten out the day just yet, I want to hear from Icy too.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 10:17:25 pm
I'd still like to hear from Icytea.True, but why would Bluarian cover for Luckyowl like that?
Also keep in mind when reading 4mask's posts that 4mask has strong reasons to want to kill Blu because they're the main person who can cause them to lose.
Luckyowl was definitely converted. Bluarian is part of the team. Blue is the unknown factor because we are 99% sure that Luckyowl was a Priest. Bluarian could be anything.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:20:39 pm
what...
Luckyowl said the Devil visited them on Night 1. The Devil is now dead. Blue couldn't have Devil killed unless they're a Devil too.
Why would Blue admit to killing Toaster.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 10:22:10 pm
If Blue is claiming the kill on Toaster then...Your guess is as good as mine.
what...
Luckyowl said the Devil visited them on Night 1. The Devil is now dead. Blue couldn't have Devil killed unless they're a Devil too.
Why would Blue admit to killing Toaster.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:22:12 pm
Which means Vector is lying, or Jim is an asshole.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 10:23:51 pm
The deep problem I have with this admission is that means Lucky is telling the truth about not taking the Devil deal.I 100% believe that Luckyowl took the Devil deal. I believe that Bluarian tried to cover for them. Because both of them are converts.
Which means Vector is lying, or Jim is an asshole.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 10:24:23 pm
Blu's either a Lone Vampire as he claims, a Demon, or a Converted Dreamwalker, if I understand this game right. Some of those are more likely than others, however.I'd still like to hear from Icytea.True, but why would Bluarian cover for Luckyowl like that?
Also keep in mind when reading 4mask's posts that 4mask has strong reasons to want to kill Blu because they're the main person who can cause them to lose.
Luckyowl was definitely converted. Bluarian is part of the team. Blue is the unknown factor because we are 99% sure that Luckyowl was a Priest. Bluarian could be anything.
Although it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what 4mask thinks.
The deep problem I have with this admission is that means Lucky is telling the truth about not taking the Devil deal.I've been saying the latter is entirely possible all day.
Which means Vector is lying, or Jim is an asshole.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 10:25:04 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 10:27:35 pm
Also again, if Toaster was an SK kill, his body would be far more gruesome than no heart, if my flavor recollection is right.I mean he claimed the kill.
Which means he's either wolfing with Lucky or an SK.
There's really only two options there.
And both of them are anti-town and need to die.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 10:30:44 pm
Also again, if Toaster was an SK kill, his body would be far more gruesome than no heart, if my flavor recollection is right.I'm slowly rolling through, but the flavor seems fairly consistent with Devil kills. Demon kills are much worse. I haven't found a Ghoul kill yet, but I think they leave skeletons. Zombie kills are much higher brute strength than Devils and less than Demons, but also not possible without a Zombie which literally cannot exist last Night.
That's what I've got for info so far, but I'm making a nice list.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 10:43:01 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 10:45:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:46:04 pm
You made a case before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178146.msg8254899#msg8254899) about how it would be incredibly foolish to convert Lucky, even if you were to get Blue for free. And yet you happen to have a case at the start of Day 3 that is highly incriminating towards Lucky being a convert. I also think there's a 100% chance you would convert Webadict if you were the Dark Magus.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Webadict is probably a real Thief, he was converted by Vector on N1. He knew I was probably a Wizard because he checked me probably on N1? Then he does the factional kill on NQT.
Vector is Dark Magus and is bullshitting a case on Lucky the newb for a lynch on them today. They convert Webadict on N1. They do something else on N2 since Web is performing the kill.
Blue is res'd as a SK Devil and killed Toaster. Why wouldn't Blue just fake-confirm they blocked Webadict? It would be an easy out, doesn't matter what kind of third-party they are. It makes no sense to me...
IcyTea, Caz, and Persus: I need some insight on this. Lucky is impossible to understand, Blue's claims make no sense, TricMagic is super bad, and 4mask just cares about surviving.
I'm not saying I believe this is true, but I don't want to get blindsided by how simple lynching Lucky or Blue seems.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:46:43 pm
Man, you're really trying to get me with this. Web? ::) . Me and Blue are not working together. Yes, I revived him. But that is all I did. What he became after his revival is a mystery to me. But I'm glad he blocked me because this pretty much clears me of killing anyone. Expose Vector of possibly lying or Jim being a dick and the most important of them all. Blu couldn't have killed if he blocked me. This mean we are at MYLO and the scum is trying to push the lynch onto me. Right now I think we might have a Web/ToonyMan. Or possibly a Vector/Web.You're not making this easy for me Lucky.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:50:17 pm
I would very much like to hear everyone's possible scenarios and if there's any mechanical or behavioral contradictions.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 10:53:01 pm
Of course I still think Vector is scum who thought he could just lie like that and get away and the more he stay silent on it the more I feel like he is the scum. Webadict might be the convert who is trying to use flavor kill as a way to get me lynch. Honestly if he's town shame on him because they're more damning players like Vector's silence on my claim and ICT who haven't even claimed anything. The fact you're not pushing ICT as the possible killer is worrisome.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:53:41 pm
Blue is claiming they did not block you last night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 10:57:14 pm
From my point of view. I feel I can trust Blu for blocking me. I'm not sure what's his wincon, but hopefully it's a town wincon.Blue recanted the claim and claimed the kill on Toaster, coming up with a convoluted and mechanical impossible story for why he's TOTALLY NOT AN SK in doing so. He's literally outed as SK or mafia. And if he's mafia, he's with you. So from your perspective, he's either an SK, or, well...
Of course I still think Vector is scum who thought he could just lie like that and get away and the more he stay silent on it the more I feel like he is the scum. Webadict might be the convert who is trying to use flavor kill as a way to get me lynch. Honestly if he's town shame on him because they're more damning players like Vector's silence on my claim and ICT who haven't even claimed anything. The fact you're not pushing ICT as the possible killer is worrisome.
You're both wolves together coming up with increasingly ridiculous fakeclaims.
Also Toony we can resolve which of the two worlds is true easily. Just off blue and go from there based on what he flips.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 10:58:05 pm
Blu: ¿¿Why? ?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 10:58:40 pm
Oof. I just read through.lol
Blu: ¿¿Why? ?
Post by: Mephansteras on March 05, 2021, 10:59:44 pm
BluarianKnight: 3: 4maskwolf, Vector, webadict
IcyTea31: 3: BluarianKnight, Caz, Persus13
Luckyowl: 1: ToonyMan
Vector: 1: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 10:59:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:02:20 pm
What's your read on IcyTea?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 11:04:57 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:06:13 pm
@Luckyowl:
What's your read on ICYTEA?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 11:07:27 pm
@Lucky:
What's your read on IcyTea?
He's been real quiet. Too quiet for my liking. But with Blu's claim on killing Toaster. I think he's just busy in IRL then scum lurking.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:12:08 pm
I still think Web and Vector are scum team. But that's only because I know I didn't take the deal and if I did I would've claimed that I took the deal today and would've protected NQT with it. But as I said many many times. I didn't know the devil was a neutral party.Okay. Okay. There's a simple method to solve this, Lucky.
I've been reading through previous games. When a Lone Vampire blocks someone, they are told that a vampire bit them (or rather, you would be told something painful happened to your neck.)
Yes or no: Your neck hurt in your flavor?
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 11:13:55 pm
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:14:15 pm
How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.Werebear?
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:15:24 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:15:51 pm
How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:16:58 pm
Perhaps BluarianKnight ate Toaster's heart when Toaster targeted them?I thought about this but IIRC seers don't leave their houses, back in Super 7 I would go into a meditative trance in the comfort of my own home. So presumably they wouldn't walk up to a werebear to get ganked?
Also there's no precedent I know of for reviving someone who wasn't a werebear as a werebear, and no reason for a werebear to claim survivor.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:18:56 pm
Agreed. Bluarian is 100% scum.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
Right, but Werebear was an SK in Supernatural 7 (but never got a chance to attack as anything other than a Zombie)Perhaps BluarianKnight ate Toaster's heart when Toaster targeted them?I thought about this but IIRC seers don't leave their houses, back in Super 7 I would go into a meditative trance in the comfort of my own home. So presumably they wouldn't walk up to a werebear to get ganked?
Also there's no precedent I know of for reviving someone who wasn't a werebear as a werebear, and no reason for a werebear to claim survivor.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:27:06 pm
Which makes me very confused why you would actively want this.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 11:32:36 pm
I am very convinced Lucky and Blue are both newb scum who have no idea what they're doing.
Which makes me very confused why you would actively want this.
The Jig is up. Blue. They got us. It's all over./s ::)
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:35:53 pm
Supernatural 1 Devil Kill:
Org is easily found, his body lying in a pool of black blood in the courtyard before his house. A large chunk is missing from his neck, and long scratches extend down his back. His face is twisted into a horrific rictus that could almost be called a grin. Cautiously, you search his house. Demonic symbols cover inside of the house, many painted in what seems to be blood. You're not sure what sort of Demon possessed him, but whatever he was it wasn't very pleasant.
Supernatural 4 Devil Kill:
“It seems that NUKE9.13 was burned to death last night. Her house caught fire. We’re not quite sure how, there seems little evidence to go by. But we can only assume that foul play was the cause.”
Supernatural 4 Devil Kill:
“IronyOwl was a Witch, a practitioner of ancient magics. And while I usually do not mourn the death of a heretic, he does not seem to have been working for the Vampires. I hope we do not feel his loss too keenly this day. I’m not sure who murdered him, but the blow that shattered his chest was powerful indeed. I imagine he felt little pain, at least.”
Supernatural 1 Demon Kill:
The room is splashed red with blood. Scrolls and books like scattered about, soaked and ruined. The body is in tatters, with little recognizable beyond a few fingers and the head. Oh, gods, the head. Eyes open in unimaginable horror, and stuck upon a candlestick on the desk. You're not sure what could have done this, but you all pray that whatever it is leaves you alone! From the various books and and such in the room, you deduce that he was a Warlock. Shame, if it were anyone else perhaps he could have determined what happened.
Supernatural 3 Zombie Kill:
JanusTwoFace does not join you this day. Concerned you all go with the town watch to his house. It’s obvious, form the smashed front door, that something is wrong.
Inside you find his body. Beaten, broken, lying in a pool of blood. Whoever did this was brutal and excessive. He probably died long before his attacker was finished.
Supernatural 9 Ghoul Kill:
“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”
Supernatural RP Ghoul Kill:
“We also lost Thrakor last night. I’m...I’m not sure who killed him. He looks like he was beaten to death with a club or something like that. Nor am I sure why he was killed, although I know he was innocent of the crimes that have locked you here. It seems he was a Priest of the old gods. I have a feeling we will miss is wisdom and guidance in the days to come.”
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 11:36:33 pm
Werebear I would expect clawmarks, but you do raise a good point that the kill flavor for werebear I don't believe has been previously established. But reviving as a werebear makes no sense to the flavor of a werebear, so its extremely unlikely that Blu is one.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.Werebear?
Do you want Toonyman to think Blu is an SK and not a wolf? Because otherwise you going after me for this one seems a bit odd here. It doesn't match the demon's flavor, so Blu is not a demon if he killed Toaster. Its as simple as that. Yes that means Blu is scum.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:40:11 pm
Night 1
IcyTea "I will convert Lucky so I can possibly get Blue as a 2 for 1 deal! The towncore players will all suspect each other! It's marvelous! Teeheehee!"
*does conversion*
IcyTea "Okay listen up, I want you two to lurk your fucking asses off. Don't make cases, don't do shit. The town will rip each other apart!"
Lucky&Blue "Aye-aye sir!"
Day 2
IcyTea "I'll just sideline and not get voted by anybody..."
Lucky "...lurklurklurklurk..."
Blue "...lurklurklurk..."
IcyTea "Lucky get in here! Toony said he'd vote with you in the thread!"
Lucky "Whatever you say boss!!"
Night 2
IcyTea "Okay that went well. Tomorrow I want you two to do exactly the same as Day 2. I'm gonna be a bit late today so make sure not to post anything until I'm back.
Lucky&Blue "Yes sir!"
Day 3
Lucky "Where's IcyTea? I don't read anything I guess I'll post!!"
Blue "Me neither!"
*Lucky and Blue post furiously*
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:43:42 pm
Why did BluarianKnight cover for Luckyowl? Why did Luckyowl accept BluarianKnight covering for them? Who killed Toaster?
The flavor is consistent with a Devil deal kill. One player is known to have been given a Devil deal. One player was revived by said player. That player claims to have blocked the Devil deal player. Then that player claimed to have blocked the dead player.
What are they?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:46:32 pm
I'm bitching at you about it because so few people are actually voting for blue, despite him being the objectively better choice of the two (presumably has a power role vs Lucky expending all of his) and because on the off chance you're wrong Blue is still an SK while Lucky could be innocent in that case.Do you want Toonyman to think Blu is an SK and not a wolf? Because otherwise you going after me for this one seems a bit odd here. It doesn't match the demon's flavor, so Blu is not a demon if he killed Toaster. Its as simple as that. Yes that means Blu is scum.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
What I'm imagining Magus Chat looks like:LOL!
Night 1
IcyTea "I will convert Lucky so I can possibly get Blue as a 2 for 1 deal! The towncore players will all suspect each other! It's marvelous! Teeheehee!"
*does conversion*
IcyTea "Okay listen up, I want you two to lurk your fucking asses off. Don't make cases, don't do shit. The town will rip each other apart!"
Lucky&Blue "Aye-aye sir!"
Day 2
IcyTea "I'll just sideline and not get voted by anybody..."
Lucky "...lurklurklurklurk..."
Blue "...lurklurklurk..."
IcyTea "Lucky get in here! Toony said he'd vote with you in the thread!"
Lucky "Whatever you say boss!!"
Night 2
IcyTea "Okay that went well. Tomorrow I want you two to do exactly the same as Day 2. I'm gonna be a bit late today so make sure not to post anything until I'm back.
Lucky&Blue "Yes sir!"
Day 3
Lucky "Where's IcyTea? I don't read anything I guess I'll post!!"
Blue "Me neither!"
*Lucky and Blue post furiously*
It'll be a joy to read in post, especially once Icy gets here and starts screaming at them.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:47:30 pm
What it seems like here is that Lucky is the one that performed the kill and Blue is claiming he did it instead. So they're both guaranteed scum.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 11:49:40 pm
Okay Persus. Please explain for me, because to me, it makes perfect sense:Read my last post.
Why did BluarianKnight cover for Luckyowl? Why did Luckyowl accept BluarianKnight covering for them? Who killed Toaster?
The flavor is consistent with a Devil deal kill. One player is known to have been given a Devil deal. One player was revived by said player. That player claims to have blocked the Devil deal player. Then that player claimed to have blocked the dead player.
What are they?
Killing blue or Lucky doesn't make a difference, killing the Dark Magus to deny their abilities does.I'm bitching at you about it because so few people are actually voting for blue, despite him being the objectively better choice of the two (presumably has a power role vs Lucky expending all of his) and because on the off chance you're wrong Blue is still an SK while Lucky could be innocent in that case.Do you want Toonyman to think Blu is an SK and not a wolf? Because otherwise you going after me for this one seems a bit odd here. It doesn't match the demon's flavor, so Blu is not a demon if he killed Toaster. Its as simple as that. Yes that means Blu is scum.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:51:08 pm
Except no it doesn't because those abilities literally don't matter all things considered.Okay Persus. Please explain for me, because to me, it makes perfect sense:Read my last post.
Why did BluarianKnight cover for Luckyowl? Why did Luckyowl accept BluarianKnight covering for them? Who killed Toaster?
The flavor is consistent with a Devil deal kill. One player is known to have been given a Devil deal. One player was revived by said player. That player claims to have blocked the Devil deal player. Then that player claimed to have blocked the dead player.
What are they?Killing blue or Lucky doesn't make a difference, killing the Dark Magus to deny their abilities does.I'm bitching at you about it because so few people are actually voting for blue, despite him being the objectively better choice of the two (presumably has a power role vs Lucky expending all of his) and because on the off chance you're wrong Blue is still an SK while Lucky could be innocent in that case.Do you want Toonyman to think Blu is an SK and not a wolf? Because otherwise you going after me for this one seems a bit odd here. It doesn't match the demon's flavor, so Blu is not a demon if he killed Toaster. Its as simple as that. Yes that means Blu is scum.How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.And how many times do I need to repeat that Blue's actions means he's either wolf or SK. "Oh that doesn't match the demon's flavor boo hoo" doesn't actually matter because if you think he can't be an SK then he has to be a wolf with Lucky and Lucky did the kill. Simple as that.
They can't win the game for the wolves with two members already outed.
literally just chop chop the two members who are exposed, starting with blue, and then chop chop the Magus.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:52:30 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 11:53:33 pm
More likely someone other than me will get killed and of course the scum is going to try to push me for an easy lynch. Only three players have tried to get me lynch. Vector, Web, and ToonyMan. These fellow are hard scum to me. Web using flimsy flavour kill to make me the liar who accpeted the devil's deal. ToonyMan trying to push for my lynch early on and realize if I flip it'll make him look scummy so he tries to back off and even did fake "I'll vote whoever you vote." But changed it anyways. They started the day off as me being a strong town, but when Vector fake claim he automatically made me the scum. He wants to use pass games that I am a liar. But not for Vector? Who lied to Web as the scum in a 3 player game convincing Web that SD was the scum? But no, I'm the one who is lying. Yeah, no u.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:54:41 pm
Doesn't matter. Game over for the wolves. That's two days to find who the Magus is.
Like, as much as thread consensus seems to be that Icy is the last wolf, there's no actual confirmation of that. There is actual confirmation that blue is always, always, always anti-town literally no matter what. Chop chop motherfucker.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:55:16 pm
SK is an important chop here because they can swing the game against the town hard if they miss scum with their kills.
Post by: webadict on March 05, 2021, 11:55:38 pm
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2021, 11:56:48 pm
The Dark Magus has a revive. We have CONFIRMED scum. If we remove them, the Dark Magus cannot use their abilities and kill.The Dark Magus gets one more night of using abilities. Exactly one, of which they will use exactly their supersaint ability on the other outed wolf.
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
And apparently that fact is driving Persus into a frenzy despite the math still screwing over the magus.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:57:31 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 05, 2021, 11:57:57 pm
Also Lucky why aren't you voting blu if you think he's an SK?
SK is an important chop here because they can swing the game against the town hard if they miss scum with their kills.
Because I'm 100% sure Vector is scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 05, 2021, 11:58:02 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2021, 11:59:31 pm
Persus is right on that front. A dead Dark Magus can't do anything that night they're dead. So Lucky and Blue would be a spent Priest and a...scum Dreamwalker? They'd only be able to faction-kill one person and the Dark Magus wouldn't be able to use any of their abilities at night, pretty sure right Persus? You were in this exact scenario.Yeah, I was dead until the morning after and Toaster just had the factionkill.
The Dark Magus has a revive. We have CONFIRMED scum. If we remove them, the Dark Magus cannot use their abilities and kill.Killing the converts only remove the Dark Magus abilities if there's only one convert because the Dark Magus has to do the factionkill. When there's two converts, they're still in play.
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
I'm pretty calm here, actually. You seem to be the one agitated here.The Dark Magus has a revive. We have CONFIRMED scum. If we remove them, the Dark Magus cannot use their abilities and kill.The Dark Magus gets one more night of using abilities. Exactly one, of which they will use exactly their supersaint ability on the other outed wolf.
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
And apparently that fact is driving Persus into a frenzy despite the math still screwing over the magus.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:00:23 am
Exactly! It doesn't matter. Honestly, the only person that it puts at risk is YOU. We literally only gain from it. Vector will be confirmed, ToonyMan probably dies Tonight. If IcyTea31 claims an action role, we can confirm it.The Dark Magus has a revive. We have CONFIRMED scum. If we remove them, the Dark Magus cannot use their abilities and kill.The Dark Magus gets one more night of using abilities. Exactly one, of which they will use exactly their supersaint ability on the other outed wolf.
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
And apparently that fact is driving Persus into a frenzy despite the math still screwing over the magus.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:02:13 am
You're right I checked:Persus is right on that front. A dead Dark Magus can't do anything that night they're dead. So Lucky and Blue would be a spent Priest and a...scum Dreamwalker? They'd only be able to faction-kill one person and the Dark Magus wouldn't be able to use any of their abilities at night, pretty sure right Persus? You were in this exact scenario.Yeah, I was dead until the morning after and Toaster just had the factionkill.
Persus13
Your spirit reawakens after spending a while resting in the pocket dimension you reserved for you soul in case of your death. With a sparking of power you reform, your body coalescing within your house.
You look regretfully over at the shattered Obsidian totem that served as the receptacle of your soul. It was expensive to make, and it will take some time to procure another. But it seems it was a wise investment.
You look out at the rising sun. The Ritual will summon you again, and this time the fools of this town know who and what you are. You will need to be clever to avoid the Mark of Justice a second time.
This is very true.The Dark Magus has a revive. We have CONFIRMED scum. If we remove them, the Dark Magus cannot use their abilities and kill.Killing the converts only remove the Dark Magus abilities if there's only one convert because the Dark Magus has to do the factionkill. When there's two converts, they're still in play.
By killing the converts, you remove the Dark Magus' abilities.
Am I lost here?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:02:29 am
And presumably you're also 100% sure that Blue is an SK. Getting rid of the SK right now is more important than a wolf because SK+wolf = potentially two dead townies and a massive scumsided swing.Also Lucky why aren't you voting blu if you think he's an SK?
SK is an important chop here because they can swing the game against the town hard if they miss scum with their kills.
Because I'm 100% sure Vector is scum.
I'm pretty sure the Dark Magus cannot use any of their abilities while dead during the night. They only come back the start of the next Day. The converts would only be able to use the faction kill. Why is this hard to understand?You're correct, but what's so hard to understand about "the Dark magus' abilities are actually just awful and will have zero impact on the game regardless of how many they use."
Literally the only useful ones at this point are the remaining roleblock and the supersaint. The supersaint will be used tonight. After that they can no longer use their abilities because both their buddies are dead. They go into D5 1 v 4. That's just straight up game over in such a mechanically heavy game where they're bound to be outed by then.
I'm pretty calm here, actually. You seem to be the one agitated here.Uhh... yeah?
Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:04:00 am
Technically, this is really more of a you problem.I'm pretty calm here, actually. You seem to be the one agitated here.Uhh... yeah?
Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:04:16 am
Today presents a choice: Either eliminate the outed anti-town player and go chop chop chop on the next in line after, or potentially throw the game digging for a player who ISN'T outed.
Up to you, really, but I'm going to be very disappointed if you throw with the game on a silver platter.
I mean you're not wrong.Technically, this is really more of a you problem.I'm pretty calm here, actually. You seem to be the one agitated here.Uhh... yeah?
Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:05:06 am
I'm pretty sure Blue is just scum and claiming the kill Lucky performed. There's no SK so don't worry I'll be dead tonight not you 4mask.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:06:19 am
Yeah screw off claimed survivor.Hopefully.
I'm pretty sure Blue is just scum and claiming the kill Lucky performed. There's no SK so don't worry I'll be dead tonight not you 4mask.
But you guys are still proposing going randomly hunting for the Dark Magus, the only NON outed member of the scumteam, on the off chance you hit them and prevent them from getting off a single action, rather than just chopping the outed players and letting the magus get off a single one of their useless actions.
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 12:06:56 am
Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.So you don't have a problem with losing when we lynch Lucky or Blue tomorrow and that randomly kills you. Because that's more likely at this point.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:07:13 am
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:07:41 am
So, we have to determine which of these three is the Dark Magus. It's a 33% chance to hit.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:09:06 am
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 12:11:19 am
Okay, here's the only problem with your scenario, Persus: It's either TricMagic, IcyTea31, or Caz.Never tell me the odds!
So, we have to determine which of these three is the Dark Magus. It's a 33% chance to hit.
Okay, I'll stop riling up 4mask. I forgot Caz was still alive, to be honest. I'm reasonably confident its IcyTea, but I'd be happy to jump to Blu or Lucky if we need to.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:11:51 am
I mean I'm cool with lynching Blue and then dealing with Magus bullshit tomorrow, but might as well figure out which of the three is the Dark Magus while we're here right?I'm okay with this. I think that's the point.
Caz has the potential to prove themselves with three of us with actions, so they have things that could prove themselves.
TricMagic is... difficult to understand, but they've been going ham on Caz.
IcyTea31 hasn't been here, hasn't claimed anything, and also is probably the Dark Magus.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:12:42 am
I disagree. You're harping on flavor and I understand where you're coming from, but we only have a single demon kill on record so you can't actually know for sure what the full range of demon flavor is (look at devil and ghoul flavor, it comes in many varieties). And it doesn't even match devil kills fully, devil kills don't muck about with fancy things like tearing out people's hearts. \While I think some of the things said there have wolf equity, other things said there have hella SK equity (literally explaining his thoughts that he thought Toaster was the converter) and I'm more willing to risk being randomly offed by rune of calamity than I am the (in my mind) much more likely chance that blue is just an SK.Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.So you don't have a problem with losing when we lynch Lucky or Blue tomorrow and that randomly kills you. Because that's more likely at this point.
How about I promise to protect you tonight? Will that make you willing to hunt the Dark Magus?I'm fine hunting for them but until Icy claims there's not much to really go on, and even once Icy claims... eh? It's basically between whatever Icy's claim is and two players who've essentially claimed no action, not much to go on mechanically and all of them have decent Dark Magus equity.
Like, unless it's literally Icy and he botches a fakeclaim too, there's no way we know for sure today.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:18:19 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:20:48 am
Which isn't guaranteed, no matter how clever we think we are.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:22:35 am
They could be me or Web. It can't be Vector because Web is mechanically clearing them, unless they're both in cahoots (which looks basically impossible).
There's nothing clearing Web and there's nothing clearing me either. We're just cleared behaviorally.
The same way I think Caz and TricMagic are cleared behaviorally.
I understand why you don't want to vote IcyTea even though I'm 99% sure they're the Dark Magus at least.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:25:53 am
I mean...mechanically the Dark Magus could be more than just TricMagic, Caz, and IcyTea.You also forgot me, I could also be the Dark Magus. In fact I'm more likely than either you or Web because both of you have mechanical reasons not to be magus (web was supposedly RBd and confirmed Vector's role, you have a preestablished alibi for your D1 protect) whereas I straight up don't beyond "eh, maybe toaster inspected me?" which he's not here to confirm or deny.
They could be me or Web. It can't be Vector because Web is mechanically clearing them, unless they're both in cahoots (which looks basically impossible).
There's nothing clearing Web and there's nothing clearing me either. We're just cleared behaviorally.
The same way I think Caz and TricMagic are cleared behaviorally.
I understand why you don't want to vote IcyTea even though I'm 99% sure they're the Dark Magus at least.
I also think Icy is the most likely dark magus but I feel like going for the magus today is risking disaster if we miss. Even for me, since it likely means we pop the rune of calamity later and I have a higher chance of just eating shit for no reason.
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 12:40:45 am
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 02:02:20 am
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 04:05:28 am
So it's Bluarian + Lucky + most likely Icytea, right? I don't see how anyone else who was posting could have remained calm with this crap going on.
The rune of calamity is a risk if we don't kill the magus tonight, but the numbers still work out even if it hits town I think. Tbh I agree with 4mask in that the possibility of Blu having a kill (I don't think he's SK, but is it possible they were raised as a role that can kill? Zombie or smt? I don't 100% know how resurrections work here.) Blu already claimed 'lone vampire' which kills after two bites, but no one claimed being bitten? And web was probably blocked by the magus instead due to the flavour? If Blu is actually a lone vampire, where is their block?
Also Dark Magus open-claiming survivor would top pretty much any gambit I've done in the past, and that's saying something. It's a fun take, though.
I want this to be the true ending now :P
Here's what I'm thinking:
Webadict is probably a real Thief, he was converted by Vector on N1. He knew I was probably a Wizard because he checked me probably on N1? Then he does the factional kill on NQT.
Vector is Dark Magus and is bullshitting a case on Lucky the newb for a lynch on them today. They convert Webadict on N1. They do something else on N2 since Web is performing the kill.
Blue is res'd as a SK Devil and killed Toaster. Why wouldn't Blue just fake-confirm they blocked Webadict? It would be an easy out, doesn't matter what kind of third-party they are. It makes no sense to me...
IcyTea, Caz, and Persus: I need some insight on this. Lucky is impossible to understand, Blue's claims make no sense, TricMagic is super bad, and 4mask just cares about surviving.
I considered Vector/Web but it's a long shot... like how would they know Blu was rezzed as a serial killer? You think Vector came up with a plan on-the-fly N2 after Jim died that they're a dreamwalker and Lucky took the kill except that actually happened? It doesn't make sense really. It double doesn't make sense given Lucky and Bluarian imploding today. So... no.
I'm not saying I believe this is true, but I don't want to get blindsided by how simple lynching Lucky or Blue seems.
Idk, I've seen Lucky literally not read the thread before because he thinks looking ignorant will make him seem townie. But as we can see it literally doesn't work since you can't just shout "its a toony/web scum team" when a player outside that group is confirming you as scum lol. I think Lucky and Blu are just panicking and being bad bc they couldn't handle the stress of continuing to post in the thread all game, decided to lurk all day to avoid suspicion (probably told to, as you said) because when they're actually in the thread it's a garbage fire of contradiction.
Icytea: You want to weigh in on all of this?
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 04:08:20 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 05:02:38 am
I'm a Sexton. N1, BluarianKnight's grave was disturbed by an uncertain number of players; N2 no graves were disturbed. The N1 result is why I put so much effort into noting that Luckyowl's and BluarianKnight's alignments aren't necessarily linked.
General thoughts
If I remember correctly, it was ToonyMan who first voiced the idea of me being the devil. I'd look askance at players who accepted this without trying to push either me or him.
I'm NQT's Coven Witch buddy. We've been loosely coordinating our play since I replaced in.Adds up:
Also if I die tonight, I'd just like to say: don't lynch Persus.
Apparently sleeping on the night preceding a weekend leaves people yearning for me.
Re: BluarianKnight as SK: no SK-flavoured kill, and nobody has claimed a successful protection. BK is team scum, if at all.
I'll bite on Luckyowl taking the devil deal and killing Toaster and then lying about both; there's no way that would be true with a town!Lucky unless there indeed are two devils, the other of whom found the convert or something, which would make this game unbelievably (as in, I don't believe it) third-party heavy.
So, let me get this straight. We're claiming that:One possibility is that web is the DM and used the factional kill, leaving BK possibly innocent if Luckyowl's revival failed. BluarianKnight's behaviour is off, though, so I'm fine with lynching them, especially because as noted by 4mask, being wrong on this and lynching a survivor won't hurt the LYLO clock.
Dark Magus blocks Web.
Lucky uses kill on Toaster.
BK uses factional kill on NQT.
Is that right?
Vector
- Did not deny being the Devil despite being frequently assumed to be such.I ignored the rolefishing.
Quote
- Heavily focused on "lynchableness" D1 rather than looking for scum.Funny you didn't ask this earlier. By "lynchable" I mean "scummy or anti-town enough that I wouldn't mind lynching them".
Quote
- Has been tunneling me all game as scum - or - cop on little evidence, straight out of RVS.Citation needed on the tunneling part; I've pushed other players. And I still think your prior low-profile play fits the scum-or-cop archetype.
Quote
The strategy of low-hanging fruit + tunneling a hard-to-get vet is an optimal low-effort strat. for scum.I'd like anyone reading this to go through my posts and then try to honestly say that this has been my strategy.
I disturbed the grave but didn't actually try to reach out after all, because I was worried that Blu would rezz scum.This makes no sense. You disturbed a grave (took action) but didn't contact BK (didn't take action)?
It was less that I didn't want my power role revealed because I thought I would be a scum target, rather I didn't want to help any scumteam PoE a vig or cop by ruling me out.
That's an extremely clever idea, but not one I thought of.I was going to vote you in this post for lying about communing with Jim, but at this prompt I tried to put it into a timeline:
So, the idea would be that someone converts me N1, I disturb Blu's grave, I'm scum for all of D2, I disturb Jim's grave, I get a kill, I use the kill, and my Dark Magus buddy who converted me did the main NK on NQT?
N1: you disturb Blu's grave, are converted. Jim visits town!LO and LO accepts.
N2: you use the DM kill, the DM blocks web (or web is DM and lies). Town!LO kills Toaster???
Jim's grave wasn't disturbed, so I don't know what you did N2 or why you lie about it, but the only worlds in which you were converted are one where web is the DM and was actually the one Jim visited (which doesn't make sense because Lucky wouldn't claim the offer), or one where Luckyowl picked up the devil's kill and used it on someone he doesn't believe is scum, as town. (Or the one web is looking at, where you could make a deal with a dead devil, but I don't think it's likely.)
If there's a rune of calamity today, webadict's the magus.
PPE: From PM to Meph, apparently devils don't leave bodies and thus don't have graves to disturb. Currently waiting on answer on whether a dead devil can even be contacted, if they don't have a grave.
ToonyMan
I'm very convinced that Luckyowl, Webadict, and NQT are town.Considering D2, Luckyowl being there is both surprising and unsurprising. After such a tunnel, you can probably read what he ate for breakfast today.
Quote
Now that I think about it, I need to ask Meph if a Devil can be converted. He explicity marks Jim as a "3rd party Devil" in the OP.Why is that relevant, when the flip shows us that it didn't happen?
Here's what I'm thinking:This is a sensible case, probably the only one with scum!Vector, though from what I've understood, Toaster's death flavour doesn't quite match an SK. It still leaves BK as the lynch for today, though.
Webadict is probably a real Thief, he was converted by Vector on N1. He knew I was probably a Wizard because he checked me probably on N1? Then he does the factional kill on NQT.
Vector is Dark Magus and is bullshitting a case on Lucky the newb for a lynch on them today. They convert Webadict on N1. They do something else on N2 since Web is performing the kill.
Blue is res'd as a SK Devil and killed Toaster. Why wouldn't Blue just fake-confirm they blocked Webadict? It would be an easy out, doesn't matter what kind of third-party they are. It makes no sense to me...
IcyTea, Caz, and Persus: I need some insight on this. Lucky is impossible to understand, Blue's claims make no sense, TricMagic is super bad, and 4mask just cares about surviving.
webadict
I am a dirty no-good Thief. I can confirm that Vector is, indeed, a graverobber. I'd know one anywhere. They cannot be the Dark Magus.
Vector is definitely a Warlock. Vector's claim matches everything I've seen.Web/Vector is a team I've marked as unlikely, and as there were multiple disturbances on BK N1, I think Vector being a warlock is possible. However, since I can attest Vector did not visit Jim's grave (or anyone's) N2, this would make them the convert performing some other action.
Luckyowl did not use their power to kill me, the person they suspected.This leaves the question of why Luckyowl claimed the devil visit at all.
Luckyowl is a bad guy that killed Toaster.
Vote Luckyowl for elimination.
Honestly, that's a pretty Level 1 read if I say so.
Okay, here's the only problem with your scenario, Persus: It's either TricMagic, IcyTea31, or Caz.Could you restate how you've cleared everyone else? TricMagic is unlikely, Caz I agree is possible.
So, we have to determine which of these three is the Dark Magus. It's a 33% chance to hit.
[he]
4maskwolf
Launch blue again and see what role they are.Not a terrible plan due to the LYLO clock point, but the first point is never true.
If they're an SK we take a good hard look at Vector and webadict.
If they're a survivor we've still pushed back the LYLO clock one day (survivors count as wolves for the LYLO clock, a phrase I'm sure I'm not going to regret later) and we just launch Lucky sky-high.
BluarianKnight
I'm not the SK - nor converted. I said the truth, and I'm being thrown under the bus because of it.Then who killed Toaster.
Why did you block Toaster last night?
1. No clue.
4. I killed him with a devil's bargain
[/quote]Seriously, this thing again where people say one thing and then immediately contradict themselves. How can you have no clue about Toaster's killer if you're it?
Caz
I considered Vector/Web but it's a long shot... like how would they know Blu was rezzed as a serial killer?The same way town are looking at that possibility: behaviour. The difference is, they'd know Blu is an SK because in that world they're the scum.
Quote
You think Vector came up with a plan on-the-fly N2 after Jim died that they're a dreamwalker and Lucky took the kill except that actually happened?Could have made that plan backwards at the start of D3.
Quote
I think Lucky and Blu are just panicking and being bad bc they couldn't handle the stress of continuing to post in the thread all game, decided to lurk all day to avoid suspicion (probably told to, as you said) because when they're actually in the thread it's a garbage fire of contradiction.You realize that in the world where Lucky and Blu are told to lurk, they are in fact scum?
Quote
Icytea: You want to weigh in on all of this?See, well, this entire post.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 05:23:06 am
Meph: Do devils leave corpses?
I disturbed the grave but didn't actually try to reach out after all, because I was worried that Blu would rezz scum.This makes no sense. You disturbed a grave (took action) but didn't contact BK (didn't take action)?
It was less that I didn't want my power role revealed because I thought I would be a scum target, rather I didn't want to help any scumteam PoE a vig or cop by ruling me out.
How does this not make sense? They actioned to open the link but then didn't post in the quicktopic/PM?, is how I see this. So they could be confirmed by the grave disturbance but avoid being outed, like Vector claims... This seems like a dumbtell Icy.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 05:46:15 am
How does this not make sense? They actioned to open the link but then didn't post in the quicktopic/PM?, is how I see this. So they could be confirmed by the grave disturbance but avoid being outed, like Vector claims... This seems like a dumbtell Icy.But they knew that Luckyowl, if truthful about being a priest, would disturb the grave anyway, so it wouldn't confirm the action. What's the motivation here?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 05:48:27 am
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 06:07:28 am
And there can only be 2-3 scum, so if anyone is good at counting...
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 06:30:33 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 06:33:05 am
Vector/Web/Lucky/Blu.How do you get Vector, Web and Lucky/Blu, into a team with a single converter and one converted or double-converted via revive? There's only one scum in the beginning and only one conversion shot.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 06:37:31 am
Vector/Web/Lucky/Blu.How do you get Vector, Web and Lucky/Blu, into a team with a single converter and one converted or double-converted via revive? There's only one scum in the beginning and only one conversion shot.
You don't, that's the point.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 06:50:51 am
Caz/Lucky/Blu
Vector/Web; SK Blu (unlikely due to kill flavour)
4mask/Lucky/Blu
Web/Lucky (peek Vector N1, convert Lucky N2; Blu third-party; town!Lucky would have lied about accepting the devil deal, and doesn't explain Blu chainsawing Lucky, so unlikely)
Toony/Lucky/Blu (unless I missed the wizard claim being somehow confirmed)
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 06:53:51 am
How about the following as mechanically possible?
Caz/Lucky/Blu
Vector/Web; SK Blu (unlikely due to kill flavour)
4mask/Lucky/Blu
Web/Lucky (peek Vector N1, convert Lucky N2; Blu third-party; town!Lucky would have lied about accepting the devil deal, and doesn't explain Blu chainsawing Lucky, so unlikely)
Toony/Lucky/Blu (unless I missed the wizard claim being somehow confirmed)
But from your point of view, Vector has to be scum due to lying about their actions?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 07:02:33 am
But from your point of view, Vector has to be scum due to lying about their actions?There's no lie, as long as Jim is a valid warlock target even without a grave, which is something I'm currently waiting for an answer from Meph on. Looking at the possibilities, however, Vector is only scum in two unlikely scenarios: there being two devils or Blu being an SK with strange kill flavour.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 07:07:37 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 07:15:33 am
So are we lynching Blu today and hoping for more information to crop up in the night's actions?I don't have a problem with that, though there's still plenty of Day left to see how things go from here once the other players who were waiting for me to post see me.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 07:50:51 am
So what was your game plan? Convert Lucky and hope for the best?
Lucky and Blue are confirmed newb scum and it's Dark Magus flavor so there can only be one more scum. Vector and IcyTea's claims contradict. Webadict's claim clears Vector. IcyTea is mechanically confirmed Magus.
Icytea
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 08:03:19 am
Vector and IcyTea's claims contradict. Webadict's claim clears Vector.Vector's claim: communed with Blu N1, communed with Jim N2.
Webadict's claim: followed Vector to Blu's grave N1, was blocked N2.
My claim: Blu's grave was disturbed N1, no graves were disturbed N2; Jim has no grave to disturb.
Whether Jim can be communed with without disturbing his nonexistent grave is in fact the linchpin here. If the answer is yes, there is no contradiction. If the answer is no, Vector is lying in a way that webadict can't clear.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:04:29 am
The price of newbs is a large sacrifice indeed...
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:06:17 am
Doesn't that mean that Webadict is confirming that Vector isn't the Dark Magus if Vector went to Blue on N1?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 08:08:55 am
For a moment you see his true form before you. A hellish Devil, surely sent from the underworld to perform dark deeds during these uncertain times.I went back and checked the flavor and it looks like Devils indeed leave no bodies, or are at least flavored to.
With a roiling cloud of black smoke he vanishes from sight, leaving only the thick smell of brimstone hanging in the air.
So at least that part seems to check out.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 08:10:58 am
@IcyTea:Yes, except in the world where webadict is the Dark Magus and converted Vector.
Doesn't that mean that Webadict is confirming that Vector isn't the Dark Magus if Vector went to Blue on N1?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:11:02 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 08:12:14 am
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 08:12:39 am
@IcyTea:Yes, except in the world where webadict is the Dark Magus and converted Vector.
Doesn't that mean that Webadict is confirming that Vector isn't the Dark Magus if Vector went to Blue on N1?
If web and Vector are the scumteam then WTF are Lucky and Blu??
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:12:50 am
Okay...so how are Lucky and Blue both mafia? Are you saying Lucky's res failed so hard that Blue flipped to mafia?@IcyTea:Yes, except in the world where webadict is the Dark Magus and converted Vector.
Doesn't that mean that Webadict is confirming that Vector isn't the Dark Magus if Vector went to Blue on N1?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:14:49 am
BluarianKnight
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 08:15:52 am
How would Vector visit Blue's grave on N1 if they're Dark Magus? Web and Vector can't both be lying.By being the convert.
Okay...so how are Lucky and Blue both mafia? Are you saying Lucky's res failed so hard that Blue flipped to mafia?In that world, Lucky is town and revived Blu as an SK. Doesn't explain why Blu would defend Lucky so hard, but the original accusation against Lucky (that he accepted the devil deal) would come from Vector i.e. scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:19:06 am
More like Webadict/Vector vs. IcyTea though...
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 08:19:23 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:24:09 am
Lucky only had bad things to say about Vector and called them scum. When I asked them about IcyTea they ignored me. When I insisted they went "eh probably town". That's called distancing folks.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:26:35 am
IcyTea's softball counter claim feels very scum!IcyTea to me. They've been calculative this whole game.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 08:31:57 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:34:18 am
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 08:35:12 am
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:39:15 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 08:39:52 am
IcyTea's softball counter claim feels very scum!IcyTea to me. They've been calculative this whole game.I don't think you've ever played in a game with me as scum. Where is this metaread from?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 08:46:13 am
Playing you when you're town.IcyTea's softball counter claim feels very scum!IcyTea to me. They've been calculative this whole game.I don't think you've ever played in a game with me as scum. Where is this metaread from?
Same way I sussed Lucky out even though I've only really played with them when they're town.
Granted this means they actually were town on D1 so I was wrong there...
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 08:51:05 am
Even a serial killer who got converted on revive. Or monster hunter if they don't die on conversion, though given they were dead already... Dreamwalker is a role that can be falseclaimed because you never got anything.I'd still like to hear from Icytea.True, but why would Bluarian cover for Luckyowl like that?
Also keep in mind when reading 4mask's posts that 4mask has strong reasons to want to kill Blu because they're the main person who can cause them to lose.
Luckyowl was definitely converted. Bluarian is part of the team. Blue is the unknown factor because we are 99% sure that Luckyowl was a Priest. Bluarian could be anything.
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 09:00:33 am
How many times do I need to repeat that the flavor of Toaster's kill doesn't match a Demon here? And if he's not a Demon, you need to argue what other SK he could possibly be here.Werebear?
As a monster hunter, the converted blue targeted the heart. Saying he lost his abilities and gained a roleblock is a good fakeclaim, given the Magus can do that.
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 09:03:06 am
What I'm imagining Magus Chat looks like:
Night 1
IcyTea "I will convert Lucky so I can possibly get Blue as a 2 for 1 deal! The towncore players will all suspect each other! It's marvelous! Teeheehee!"
*does conversion*
IcyTea "Okay listen up, I want you two to lurk your fucking asses off. Don't make cases, don't do shit. The town will rip each other apart!"
Lucky&Blue "Aye-aye sir!"
Day 2
IcyTea "I'll just sideline and not get voted by anybody..."
Lucky "...lurklurklurklurk..."
Blue "...lurklurklurk..."
IcyTea "Lucky get in here! Toony said he'd vote with you in the thread!"
Lucky "Whatever you say boss!!"
Night 2
IcyTea "Okay that went well. Tomorrow I want you two to do exactly the same as Day 2. I'm gonna be a bit late today so make sure not to post anything until I'm back.
Lucky&Blue "Yes sir!"
Day 3
Lucky "Where's IcyTea? I don't read anything I guess I'll post!!"
Blue "Me neither!"
*Lucky and Blue post furiously*
haha. Alright, this is funny. But not likely to be true given Lucky just said they were outed. A double bus.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 09:07:55 am
As a monster hunter, the converted blue targeted the heart. Saying he lost his abilities and gained a roleblock is a good fakeclaim, given the Magus can do that.
What are you smoking? Bluarian died and literally flipped dreamwalker.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 09:08:40 am
Don't question it.As a monster hunter, the converted blue targeted the heart. Saying he lost his abilities and gained a roleblock is a good fakeclaim, given the Magus can do that.
What are you smoking? Bluarian died and literally flipped dreamwalker.
It's not worth it.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 09:10:51 am
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 09:11:00 am
Because if you're wrong you're going to get me killed over some fucking asinine "oh we can't possibly let the Dark Magus get off one more of their useless actions" shit because if you're wrong, blue is an SK who knows they can't win and likely spite-kills me tonight for calling them out. And I'd rather not lose because the town wanted to fuck around and try and find the magus for no mechanical advantage.So you don't have a problem with losing when we lynch Lucky or Blue tomorrow and that randomly kills you. Because that's more likely at this point.
Of note, 4mask likely isn't dark magus at this point outside of WIFOM, as they need to kill me with Supersaint to actually win the game with just themselves left. Or manage to lynch me. Anything else is a draw. Assuming Supersaint can kill a knight.
Morning air and sleepythought. K, so that's true. So who did the other kill?As a monster hunter, the converted blue targeted the heart. Saying he lost his abilities and gained a roleblock is a good fakeclaim, given the Magus can do that.
What are you smoking? Bluarian died and literally flipped dreamwalker.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 09:11:08 am
How's it feel 4mask that the last day of this game is going to have TricMagic as a part of it? Do you think they'll vote correctly?
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 09:14:22 am
Of note, 4mask likely isn't dark magus at this point outside of WIFOM, as they need to kill me with Supersaint to actually win the game with just themselves left. Or manage to lynch me. Anything else is a draw. Assuming Supersaint can kill a knight.
Wtf? They don't need to do that at all, given they have an ability to make themselves unkillable.
Morning air and sleepythought. K, so that's true. So who did the other kill?
read. the. thread.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 09:15:13 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 09:18:41 am
Tric pass me the leaf.HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.
How's it feel 4mask that the last day of this game is going to have TricMagic as a part of it? Do you think they'll vote correctly?
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 09:25:25 am
As is I'm more likely to go for an Icytea vote if things go normally than a Caz vote. Especially since Caz has 2 days to get a dreamwalking result, though I doubt he'll live to see those days. If alive that means they could happen upon a mafia result, and they can't turn a lynch onto me as easily.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 09:31:31 am
Tric pass me the leaf.HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.
How's it feel 4mask that the last day of this game is going to have TricMagic as a part of it? Do you think they'll vote correctly?
What about you in lylo with Tric and Lucky?
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 09:32:30 am
End of Day 1 Votes:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet*TricMagic was voting Juicebox, they unvoted to prevent ties apparently.
BluarianKnight: 5: Jim Groovester, Caz, Luckyowl, Toaster, Vector
Caz: 4: 4maskwolf, notquitethere, TricMagic, webadict
Luckyowl: 3: BluarianKnight, IcyTea31, ToonyMan
Toaster: 1: Persus13
*Caz was actually Juicebox for D1
End of Day 2 Votes:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Jim Groovester: 6: IcyTea31, notquitethere, Persus13, Toaster, Vector, webadict
notquitethere: 1: Jim Groovester
ToonyMan: 4: 4maskwolf, BluarianKnight, Caz, TricMagic
webadict: 2: Luckyowl, ToonyMan
Day 3 Votes Currently:
The Scribe's Tally Sheet
BluarianKnight: 7: 4maskwolf, Caz, IcyTea, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
IcyTea31: 2: BluarianKnight, Persus13
Vector: 1: Luckyowl
As is I'm more likely to go for an Icytea vote if things go normally than a Caz vote. Especially since Caz has 2 days to get a dreamwalking result, though I doubt he'll live to see those days. If alive that means they could happen upon a mafia result, and they can't turn a lynch onto me as easily.I am assuredly dead tonight, unless scum want to pin me as Dark Magus, but then that gives me a chance to stop their kill tonight.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 11:01:22 am
There's too many liars if Webadict is Dark Magus.
Blue shouldn't have tried to cover for Lucky. I think scum team would have had a better chance of winning if they threw Lucky under the bus instead of Blue going insane and claiming the Toaster kill.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 11:12:28 am
Webadict guessed correctly I was a Wizard before I even claimed. If Webadict was Dark Magus why wouldn't they have killed me last night? It's too risky to leave me alone. The only way this makes sense is if Webadict was not actually sure what role I was (in other words, they were lying about guessing my role during the second half of D2) and used the Dark Magus role-investigate two-shot ability on me last night while...Vector and Blue performed the kills? But Lucky claimed being Devil visited on Night 1, there is no one else that could have went Devilroid on Toaster.You know what they say, too many cooks spoil the soup.
There's too many liars if Webadict is Dark Magus.
Blue shouldn't have tried to cover for Lucky. I think scum team would have had a better chance of winning if they threw Lucky under the bus instead of Blue going insane and claiming the Toaster kill.
Whenever everyone is done discussing for the day I'm okay shortening.
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 11:16:05 am
Whenever everyone is done discussing for the day I'm okay shortening.Same. Unless Icy has something to say.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 11:17:13 am
Post by: Mephansteras on March 06, 2021, 11:23:36 am
BluarianKnight: 7: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31, Caz, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
IcyTea31: 2: BluarianKnight, Persus13
Vector: 1: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday
To confirm, since this is more about a town role than the 3rd party, Devils do not leave bodies and Warlocks can contact dead entities that do not leave bodies behind.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 11:51:43 am
Webadict guessed correctly I was a Wizard before I even claimed. If Webadict was Dark Magus why wouldn't they have killed me last night? It's too risky to leave me alone. The only way this makes sense is if Webadict was not actually sure what role I was (in other words, they were lying about guessing my role during the second half of D2) and used the Dark Magus role-investigate two-shot ability on me last night while...Vector and Blue performed the kills? But Lucky claimed being Devil visited on Night 1, there is no one else that could have went Devilroid on Toaster.I am most certainly a Thief. I am most certain that Vector is a Warlock. I am almost positive that Luckyowl and BluarianKnight are scum. I am fairly certain IcyTea31 is the Dark Magus. I guessed what you were based on your meta.
There's too many liars if Webadict is Dark Magus.
Blue shouldn't have tried to cover for Lucky. I think scum team would have had a better chance of winning if they threw Lucky under the bus instead of Blue going insane and claiming the Toaster kill.
However, I was thinking last Night. No matter what, Bluarian is scum. But, there exists a universe where Luckyowl isn't. It's possible that Luckyowl got the worst roll and turned BluarianKnight into a scum Monster Hunter. That's about the only other role I could think of that might possibly work. No idea what the chances of that are, but I figured I'd put it out there for posterity.
Regardless, I believe that Shortening is the play here.
I'm going to be Following IcyTea31 Tonight unless ToonyMan or Vector objects.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 11:55:05 am
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 11:56:18 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 11:58:57 am
Why would Bluarian try to protect a town!Lucky though?It could be a bad fakeclaim that implicated Lucky by accident, or, even more out there, a deliberate action to implicate Lucky after blue goes down.
Not that either is likely but y'know.
It isn't technically impossible.
Shorten
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:02:29 pm
Why would Bluarian try to protect a town!Lucky though?Okay, in this hypothetical world, Bluarian tried to fakeclaim on Luckyowl... I think?
Look, I literally don't believe that's the case, but it's the only possibility I could think of. That's the only way Luckyowl could possibly be Town and explain the kill.
or wait, you think Jim is lying about Lucky taking the deal?Yes, in that world. I think.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:03:04 pm
I forgot about potentially implicating Luckyowl. It could be setting up a mislynch Tomorrow?Why would Bluarian try to protect a town!Lucky though?It could be a bad fakeclaim that implicated Lucky by accident, or, even more out there, a deliberate action to implicate Lucky after blue goes down.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 12:04:54 pm
It's THEORETICALLY possible but I don't think it's at all what happened. As memory serves until blue botched the fakeclaim Lucky was the one under pressure because nobody believed that he hadn't actually performed the kill. There was only a question of "is blue also involved in this" and all blue had to do was wash his hands clean of the whole thing if Lucky/Blue is t/w. Why set up a mislynch tomorow when you can have your mislynch today?I forgot about potentially implicating Luckyowl. It could be setting up a mislynch Tomorrow?Why would Bluarian try to protect a town!Lucky though?It could be a bad fakeclaim that implicated Lucky by accident, or, even more out there, a deliberate action to implicate Lucky after blue goes down.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:06:55 pm
... I don't know. I absolutely have no idea. I am pretty sure ToonyMan is right and scumchat looks like a circus.It's THEORETICALLY possible but I don't think it's at all what happened. As memory serves until blue botched the fakeclaim Lucky was the one under pressure because nobody believed that he hadn't actually performed the kill. There was only a question of "is blue also involved in this" and all blue had to do was wash his hands clean of the whole thing if Lucky/Blue is t/w. Why set up a mislynch tomorow when you can have your mislynch today?I forgot about potentially implicating Luckyowl. It could be setting up a mislynch Tomorrow?Why would Bluarian try to protect a town!Lucky though?It could be a bad fakeclaim that implicated Lucky by accident, or, even more out there, a deliberate action to implicate Lucky after blue goes down.
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 12:08:54 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 06, 2021, 12:26:45 pm
Actually, I'm dead either way today - as double checking, I've got quite an impossible task in front of me.
Scum want me dead as well as town - they want my head.
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 12:29:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:31:35 pm
Has flashback to Day 7 of Supernatural 7. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5517644#msg5517644)
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 12:34:03 pm
I'm not a part of the scumteam.Would you like to explain why?
Actually, I'm dead either way today - as double checking, I've got quite an impossible task in front of me.
Scum want me dead as well as town - they want my head.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 12:44:31 pm
Supernatural 7 Day 3 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
Jack A.T. has not joined you.
The High Priest steps forward and into the center of the circle. "I have grave news, friends. I awoke with a terrible vision, that one of our faithful has fallen. And, to my sorrow, it has proven true. Jack A.T. was discovered dead in his home this morning, his body burned to nought but ashes and bone. We know now that he was a Wizard, using his magic to help protect us against evil. He shall be sorely missed."
Supernatural 7 Day 4 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
The circle is smaller today. Jim Groovester is not among you.
The High Priest looks grim. "His body was found, burned to ash and bones. The same way that Jack died."
"He was a heathen, it is true, a Lone Witch practicing a nearly dead religion. Be he was a good man, for all of that, and I fear we will miss his council in the days to come."
Supernatural 7 Day 5 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
It is Flandre who does not join you today.
The High Priest looks on, sadly. "We have lost another ally of the town this day. Flandre was a gifted Dreamwalker, as she had claimed. As with the others, she was burned to death last night. We have lost so many good people to this evil. You must stop them!"
Supernatural 7 Day 6 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
notquitethere, however is not with you. The High Priest glumly reports that he, too, was found burned to death last night. He was a Warlock, and while his magic may be dark is seems he had the town's best interests at heart.
Supernatural 7 Day 7 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
The next morning finds you all back in the circle once again. Well, except for Nerjin.
It seems that he, like the others, was found burned to death in his house this morning. The High Priest confirms that he was indeed a Seer working for the good of the town.
Supernatural 10 Day 3 Dark Magus Kill Discovery:
And neither Toaster nor notquitethere ever arrive.
But eventually the Count does show up. His face looks grim.
“We lost two of our own last night. Both pure of heart, and faithful defenders of our lands. Toaster, our Seer, was beaten to death and had his heart ripped out. Notquitethere, who seems to have been part of some Coven of Witches, was burned to death by some dark magic. Foul murders, both of them, and show that we face not a single threat but multiple.”
Fine. Shorten.
I'll be protecting ~someone~ tonight. If I die then it's up to you guys to eliminate Lucky and IcyTea.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 01:03:14 pm
If BluarianKnight flips some type of killing scum role that seems like it could match the Toaster kill then we cannot fully trust Vector and Webadict.
If BluarianKnight flips anything else then Vector and Webadict are town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 01:25:35 pm
4mask, Tricmagic, Toonyman, Vector, webadict
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 01:32:50 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 01:34:07 pm
5/8 shortensCaz, Lucky, Blue, and Icy. So it's 5/9 people.
4mask, Tricmagic, Toonyman, Vector, webadict
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 01:35:11 pm
Shorten
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 01:35:59 pm
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 01:36:17 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 01:41:24 pm
We need Caz and one of the wolfies to vote for shorten.
Please don't drag this game out any longer than it needs to be, wolves.
Also, I told you so. To everyone except Toony, but especially to webadict.
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 01:47:03 pm
Also, I told you so. To everyone except Toony, but especially to webadict.Okay, but you're a Survivor, so it still doesn't really matter.
Also, do we really need 75% to Shorten?
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 01:50:07 pm
Also, I told you so. To everyone except Toony, but especially to webadict.
You told me what, exactly?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 01:51:13 pm
I'm mostly harassing webadict and Toaster who explicitly disagreed with my "lynch Lucky" push on D2.Also, I told you so. To everyone except Toony, but especially to webadict.
You told me what, exactly?
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 01:52:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 02:01:38 pm
Post by: webadict on March 06, 2021, 02:03:27 pm
Day 4 may finally be the day we lynch Lucky. *tears fill his eyes*We finally live in a society.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 06, 2021, 03:10:36 pm
BluarianKnight: 7: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31, Caz, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
IcyTea31: 2: BluarianKnight, Persus13
Vector: 1: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday. There are 6 votes to Shorten the day. 7/10 players need to vote to actually shorten.
I don't think I ever formally decided what to do in the case that 75% doesn't give us a round number. But I think for this situation we can go with 7/10 instead of 8/10.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 06, 2021, 03:17:20 pm
I'm not a part of the scumteam.Would you like to explain why?
Actually, I'm dead either way today - as double checking, I've got quite an impossible task in front of me.
Scum want me dead as well as town - they want my head.
Simple - My victory condition doesn't work with Scum - I need to kill them to win.
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 06, 2021, 03:19:11 pm
I'll kill Lucky - or whoever else you folks want this night, if you let me live one more day. Vote me out tomorrow if you'd like - I can't control that.
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 03:19:35 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 06, 2021, 03:22:51 pm
Post by: Caz on March 06, 2021, 03:23:53 pm
Shorten
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 03:25:41 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 03:30:17 pm
Shorten
Pretty interesting that's a thing. Though why try and save lucky I have no clue.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 06, 2021, 03:48:06 pm
I've got a kill-a-day power, yes.If you're telling the truth we can't fully trust Webadict and Vector. We'll know when you flip.
Regardless, I hope the remaining town use their brains and think through the following days. I'm still fairly certain it's Icy and Lucky.
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 04:07:08 pm
(PS: I didn't say anything about ICT's megapost, but, uh, I continue to affirm that I contacted Jim last night.)
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 06, 2021, 04:12:19 pm
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 04:15:15 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 04:16:54 pm
So we probably can't talk anymore.
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 04:17:27 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2021, 04:20:22 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 06, 2021, 05:05:36 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 06, 2021, 05:09:24 pm
Night will go for 24 hours, though that's somewhat flexible. If you do not have your action in within the 24 hours you run the risk of losing your action for the night, though. If you choose not to use your action, please send that instead of just waiting for me to get on with the night without you.
Post by: Vector on March 06, 2021, 05:13:39 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 06, 2021, 05:19:31 pm
BluarianKnight: 7: 4maskwolf, IcyTea31, Caz, ToonyMan, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
IcyTea31: 2: BluarianKnight, Persus13
Vector: 1: Luckyowl
The Count seems a bit surprised by your insistence on ending the Trial so early in the day, but with so many in favor he assents.
You call out the votes, and with so many for BluarianKnight it is quickly clear why little additional discussion is needed.
BluarianKnight's eyes glow with a fierce white light as the runes on thier neck begin to glow. With a bellow their form seems to expand out into a huge, towering figure of shadow.
"No!" shouts the Demonic form. "It is too early! I have not yet fed enough!"
A shadowy arm tipped with terrifyingly long claws reaches out towards the Count, who falls back in fear.
You see the runes glow intensify from within the shadowy form, burning bright enough to be seen clearly through the darkness surrounding him.
The shadow lets out a long cry of pain, and then dissipates.
BluarianKnight's body lies still on the floor, so sign of the demonic possession left.
"Well" exhales the Count. "That is, at least, one more threat removed. Now, off with you, and be safe this night. I shall see you gain on the morning."
Night has fallen. Send in your actions!
And, yeah, you have 24 hours to send in your actions. How quickly I can do all the flavor and get the next day going depends on how busy I am once I have all the actions in.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 07, 2021, 10:47:46 pm
Dawn brings with it the now familiar tug of the Binding.
You meet again at the large Tent.
Well, all of you except for Toonyman. He seems to be absent, and you fear the worst by the time the Count comes in.
“As you may have guessed, Toonyman was slain last night. He was, apparently, a Wizard, one who used their power to aid and protect us. Sadly, his magic was no match for those that oppose us, and he was burned to death sometime last night. “
“We have lost many, and I fear our danger is grave. Please, find those who did this today and bring them to justice!”
Day 4 has begun. It will go until ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2021, 10:49:21 pm
Got anything for us yet?
Web, see anything interesting?
Vec, what did Toaster have to say?
Post by: webadict on March 07, 2021, 10:59:13 pm
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 07, 2021, 11:17:35 pm
Post by: Vector on March 07, 2021, 11:34:29 pm
Post by: Vector on March 07, 2021, 11:50:38 pm
I do have interesting information. I apparently wasn't blocked. So, I've got juicy information.
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
Hold on: can't Dark Magus self-action? As in, couldn't they super-saint themselves without leaving their house?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2021, 11:57:15 pm
I just looked at some of the flavor from supernatural 7 and... maybe the Dark Magus can't be tracked at all?I do have interesting information. I apparently wasn't blocked. So, I've got juicy information.
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
Hold on: can't Dark Magus self-action? As in, couldn't they super-saint themselves without leaving their house?
Quote
You move silently through the town, using your magic to warp the senses of the people to hide your presence. No need to let them know that you are out and about, after all.
Eventually you make your way to 4maskwolf's house. You casually walk around the house, staff dragging along the ground. When the circle is complete you pull out a pouch and walk around the house the other direction, dropping shards of obsidian inside the circle as you go. That done, you pull out a small box and very carefully pull out the insect inside. Setting it down on the edge of the circle you watch as it makes its way toward the house. It grows in side as it gets closer, pulsating with dark purple magic. Finally it passes through the walls on its way to its victim, a mere image of an insect.
You smile to yourself. That'll be a rather exciting surprise for the town when 4maskwolf dies!
Quote
You cloak yourself in shadows and stroll down through the town. Off to where 4maskwolf spends his nights.
When you are close enough you pull out a small box from your belt pouch. Within you release a shimmering black spider. It dances between your fingers, weaving threads of darkness into a scintillating web that reflects the night sky above you. Power wells up inside you and you channel it through the web, casting its shadow out over 4mask's abode. With a sharp clenching of your fist you crush the web, causing the shadow to collapse into the building. You chuckle. Whatever power he may have, it will avail him naught tonight.
You pluck the spider off of your thumb and return it to its box and head back to your house.
There's a lot of flavor around "cloaking themselves in shadows" whenever the Magus does something. Either that or they stay in their house, like they seem to do for inspects.
Quote
You stand in a circle of power. The lines of energy drawn into this one are those of mind and soul. You wrap them around you, shape them, and then cast them out into your hand. The porcelain ball you hold shifts and changes as you fix your mind upon notquitethere. The orb cracks and shatters, the pieces flying apart and reforming themselves into new patterns. You study the new statue for a bit, consulting the book in front of you for meaning. It seems he is your enemy, a follower of the gods here, and a Warlock to boot. Not a major threat, that, with magic so weak it can merely contact the dead. But good to know what opposes you.
The energy dies down and you place the statue on a shelf. You have much to think about.
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 12:09:42 am
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 12:19:28 am
I'll ask Meph what I can Follow in case they have a different answer privately, but I'm almost positive that if someone doesn't interact with another player, then I get nothing. I know that things like Dreamwalkers can't be Followed, but I think it might also apply to any ability that self-targets and certain magical abilities.
@Meph: What abilities could a Thief Follow for a Dark Magus? Can an ability that self-targets be Followed? If I have to ask privately, let me know.
Uh, I'll Unvote until then because it's getting late. I might do another readthrough, but not until tomorrow.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 01:35:41 am
I'll wait to post my information until we hear from ICT and Caz.No graves were disturbed.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 01:42:37 am
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.Tinfoil: can we close out the possibility of 4maskwolf being the convert?
It's LYLO due to the Dark Magus' doublevote if 4mask is still a survivor. If he's the convert, it's MILO. Behaviourally, I've had little reason to doubt the claim, but he's pretty much the fallback lynch as the one guaranteed not to lose the game for town.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 01:50:08 am
I'm thinking I want to hear from the dreamwalker as well.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 03:53:44 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 03:58:26 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 04:01:15 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 04:03:38 am
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.Tinfoil: can we close out the possibility of 4maskwolf being the convert?
Didn't the cop soft them as benign? Please someone have that post handy. >_> *looks back at the hundred pages of play*
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 04:10:34 am
I do have interesting information. I apparently wasn't blocked. So, I've got juicy information.
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
WHY wouldn't you check Lucky given that the convert has to do the kill?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 06:12:22 am
There's a theory that I was the N1 inspect, yes, and that that's how Toaster knew for certain I wasn't the converter.Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.Tinfoil: can we close out the possibility of 4maskwolf being the convert?
Didn't the cop soft them as benign? Please someone have that post handy. >_> *looks back at the hundred pages of play*
It doesn't mechanically preclude me from being the convert though, since inspections happen before conversions.
"Survivor" and "fallback lynch" are not words I'd like the hear in the same sentence again. Please don't.Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.Tinfoil: can we close out the possibility of 4maskwolf being the convert?
It's LYLO due to the Dark Magus' doublevote if 4mask is still a survivor. If he's the convert, it's MILO. Behaviourally, I've had little reason to doubt the claim, but he's pretty much the fallback lynch as the one guaranteed not to lose the game for town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 06:58:51 am
Persus
Lucky
IcyTea (assuming Vector confirms they visited no grave last night)
4mask (if you assume the I was the N1 inspection by Toast, given Toast's actions)
People who could be Magus:
Vector (has provided no information confirming their role and if Icy is telling the truth hasn't visited any graves alone on any night where they could be confirmed)
webadict (has provided no information confirming his role)
TricMagic (claimed a fundamentally unconfirmable role)
Caz (has provided no information confirming their role, at least none that is confirmable here and now)
Also my activity is going to drop off hard today because of the mash starting in two minutes, but I'll try to keep up with the thread.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 07:54:08 am
IcyTea (assuming Vector confirms they visited no grave last night)I could have blocked Vector if I were the DM, but that would also require webadict to be lying, or for the DM's block to be unfollowable, which is an unknown.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 08:22:00 am
I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?
So that's your game? Vector, can you confirm this? I am completely lost on who's role does what. Vec is investigative, Toony protective? And Web a tracker.
Lucky~, anything to say?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 08:28:00 am
Vector is a medium, toony was a doctor, web is a tracker, assuming both web and Vec's claims are true.I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?
So that's your game? Vector, can you confirm this? I am completely lost on who's role does what. Vec is investigative, Toony protective? And Web a tracker.
Lucky~, anything to say?
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 08:34:26 am
Toony died at night however, so can't confirm this till tomorrow. One more day of survival if false.Vector is a medium, toony was a doctor, web is a tracker, assuming both web and Vec's claims are true.I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?
So that's your game? Vector, can you confirm this? I am completely lost on who's role does what. Vec is investigative, Toony protective? And Web a tracker.
Lucky~, anything to say?
Web and 4mask are town-aligned by this point in my eyes, even if one is a survivor. Question, how would someone who checks if graves are disturbed not leave their house to check them?
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 08:35:54 am
Question, how would someone who checks if graves are disturbed not leave their house to check them?
First good point you made all game.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 08:37:43 am
-shrug-Toony died at night however, so can't confirm this till tomorrow. One more day of survival if false.Vector is a medium, toony was a doctor, web is a tracker, assuming both web and Vec's claims are true.I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?
So that's your game? Vector, can you confirm this? I am completely lost on who's role does what. Vec is investigative, Toony protective? And Web a tracker.
Lucky~, anything to say?
Web and 4mask are town-aligned by this point in my eyes, even if one is a survivor. Question, how would someone who checks if graves are disturbed not leave their house to check them?
I think because they don't explicitly target someone with an action and their role is just passive information they don't count as leaving.
They might be able to be blocked by a guard though, who knows.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 08:37:59 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 08:43:38 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 08:49:54 am
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 09:20:39 am
Three reasons:I do have interesting information. I apparently wasn't blocked. So, I've got juicy information.
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
WHY wouldn't you check Lucky given that the convert has to do the kill?
1) BluarianKnight being SK does not immediately confirm Luckyowl is the Convert.
2) If IcyTea31 was the Dark Magus, I assumed they would Super Saint their Convert and I would Follow that.
3) I literally said I would Follow IcyTea Yesterday, and while I did consider Following Lucky as a gambit, I also briefly entertained Following ToonyMan or Vector to prove myself but ultimately realized that ToonyMan is dead 9 times out of 10 and Following Vector wasn't exactly gonna do anything to find scum.
So, yes, I did Follow IcyTea31. They didn't kill anyone. They're not the Convert. I thought that I'd be able to see both, but I didn't consider that the Dark Magus might not be trackable.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 09:25:13 am
1) BluarianKnight being SK does not immediately confirm Luckyowl is the Convert.
So you think LuckyOwl is town now???
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 09:31:07 am
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 09:39:37 am
My ability is passive. The flavour is that I check the graves in the morning right before coming to the trial.Question, how would someone who checks if graves are disturbed not leave their house to check them?
First good point you made all game.
Am I the only one that remembered we need to get rid of the convert BEFORE the magus??Remind me why. As I understood it, the point of killing the convert is that it forces the scumteam to use their action on killing rather than support...which lynching them does just as well.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 09:41:02 am
2) If IcyTea31 was the Dark Magus, I assumed they would Super Saint their Convert and I would Follow that.Why would this be a problem? You'd still catch the killer.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 09:44:47 am
Lynch convert first, DM kills, lynch DM twice to win.Am I the only one that remembered we need to get rid of the convert BEFORE the magus??Remind me why. As I understood it, the point of killing the convert is that it forces the scumteam to use their action on killing rather than support...which lynching them does just as well.
Lynch DM first, convert kills, lynch DM again, convert kills again, lynch convert.
one fewer kill for the wolf team.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 09:56:31 am
Okay, so basically your comment is a no-win situation unless I saw Luckyowl do the kill. If I swapped to Luckyowl and saw nothing, you'd be yelling at me for swapping away from IcyTea31. I don't really see this as big of a deal as you seem to.1) BluarianKnight being SK does not immediately confirm Luckyowl is the Convert.
So you think LuckyOwl is town now???
My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool. If IcyTea is still the Dark Magus and Luckyowl is their Convert, IcyTea then SSed themselves and Luckyowl is a free elimination without backlash. It is also entirely possible that I forcibly locked down the Devildeal kill by keeping IcyTea31 at home.
True, but that's sort of a problem that would be better addressed before the Night starts as opposed to after it ends. If y'all want me to Follow Luckyowl, then it's a lot easier to do so when you say so.2) If IcyTea31 was the Dark Magus, I assumed they would Super Saint their Convert and I would Follow that.Why would this be a problem? You'd still catch the killer.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 10:11:39 am
Three reasons:I do have interesting information. I apparently wasn't blocked. So, I've got juicy information.
IcyTea31 is...
Innocent. IcyTea31 did not do anything suspicious last Night, so that pretty much proves it's not IcyTea31. This means it's Caz or TricMagic.
Also, the flip Yesterday doesn't necessarily point towards a Luckyowl convert, but it does leave Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, or Lucky as the Convert.
WHY wouldn't you check Lucky given that the convert has to do the kill?
1) BluarianKnight being SK does not immediately confirm Luckyowl is the Convert.
2) If IcyTea31 was the Dark Magus, I assumed they would Super Saint their Convert and I would Follow that.
3) I literally said I would Follow IcyTea Yesterday, and while I did consider Following Lucky as a gambit, I also briefly entertained Following ToonyMan or Vector to prove myself but ultimately realized that ToonyMan is dead 9 times out of 10 and Following Vector wasn't exactly gonna do anything to find scum.
So, yes, I did Follow IcyTea31. They didn't kill anyone. They're not the Convert. I thought that I'd be able to see both, but I didn't consider that the Dark Magus might not be trackable.
1) That's literally the reason why you should have followed Lucky.
2) Why go after the dark magus when it could be several different people and we need to get the convert? Makes no sense.
3) Why would you actually tell us what you're going to do given that the only way I can be cleared is by seeing someone else's action? If everyone's claiming their actions beforehand I could just claim I saw you do what you said you'd do.
This is not a town web.
Okay, so basically your comment is a no-win situation unless I saw Luckyowl do the kill. If I swapped to Luckyowl and saw nothing, you'd be yelling at me for swapping away from IcyTea31. I don't really see this as big of a deal as you seem to.
If you saw Lucky do nothing then we can eliminate them as scum, which is kinda useful since Vector has been telling lies about them. If Lucky is clear, Vector is implicated.
My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool.
You did neither. Oops!
It is also entirely possible that I forcibly locked down the Devildeal kill by keeping IcyTea31 at home.
1. You're high if you think there is actually a devildeal kill on the table. It would have been used in the night if it existed, BY LUCKY WHO WAS THE ONLY POSSIBLE PERSON WHO COULD USE IT.
2. Even if there is a devildeal, Icy wouldn't be able to use it.
If y'all want me to Follow Luckyowl, then it's a lot easier to do so when you say so.
Scum web needs a lot of handholding apparently.
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 10:16:30 am
I'll wait to post my information until we hear from ICT and Caz.ICT and Caz have posted now. I'm interested in what you've got.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 10:17:24 am
Genuinely curious here.
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 10:35:44 am
Apparently Toaster's grave was in fact disturbed.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 10:36:01 am
@Meph: What abilities could a Thief Follow for a Dark Magus? Can an ability that self-targets be Followed? If I have to ask privately, let me know.
Also, not all roles require the player to leave the house. Generally, magic sounding roles are going to work like Psychic roles in Paranormal. If your role does not require you to leave your house to use, you will be informed of this fact. Roles who don't leave their house cannot be role-blocked by the Guard, though he still protects them.
It is safe to assume that most of the Dark Magus' abilities are not trackable for a thief.
Meph: Would a thief see anything if they tracked a sexton?
Only if the Sexton did some action other than their auto-check on the graves.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 10:38:49 am
You or Tric could be the Dark Magus, and have recruited IcyTea31, but you never considered that. Why not?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 10:40:10 am
Vec, what did Toaster have to say?How did you know this?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 10:42:07 am
And if you knew this, why didn't you react when I said no graves were disturbed?Vec, what did Toaster have to say?How did you know this?
To clarify, I only just got my night results, apparently Meph had skipped me over by accident.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 10:47:28 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 10:59:47 am
Literally the only sensible action if Vec is as they claim.Vec, what did Toaster have to say?How did you know this?
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 11:01:38 am
I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?So you basically got a PM of him putting up wards on your house or something?
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:04:04 am
@Caz: So, your idea is that Lucky can Devildeal kill and faction kill in a single Night, or...?
Genuinely curious here.
No, my idea isn't that at all. Is this more dumbtelling that you pretend to not understand my post?
@Caz: Also, why do you not believe that IcyTea31 could also be the Convert instead?
Direct me to where I said they weren't.
You or Tric could be the Dark Magus, and have recruited IcyTea31, but you never considered that. Why not?
You're asking me why I didn't consider that I could be dark magus? Wat. As for Tric, they're annoying but I don't think they are scum.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:06:37 am
I dreamed about Toonyman, who apparently protected me. Which Vector can prove, no?So you basically got a PM of him putting up wards on your house or something?
They didn't leave their house, they set up a protection spell and then napped in a chair before a figure broke in and caused their insides to combust. It was quite graphic. Definitely killed by magus magic.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 11:09:37 am
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 11:12:32 am
My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool.
You did neither. Oops!
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:15:35 am
Let's put it this way. You dreamed about Toony protecting you, he dies. Vector tries to confirm you, he dies. Your role isn't confirmable, and the only protector is dead. There is no reason you shouldn't be the lynch today Caz.
Spoiler: TricMagic (click to show/hide)
Unless you want to implicate Lucky in Toony's murder. (Which is at least possible, his actions yesterday weren't the best)
Wtf does this mean?
Post by: IcyTea31 on March 08, 2021, 11:18:55 am
Vector tries to confirm you, he dies.I'm going to guess you mean Toaster, whose results Vector should have retrieved and I'm eager to see, but how would you know if Toaster targeted Caz?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 11:22:05 am
What he's saying is that Caz's claim is fundamentally unconfirmable if Vector dies tonight, which is a nontrivial possibility in any scenario where Vec isn't a wolf and would always happen if Caz were a wolf.Vector tries to confirm you, he dies.I'm going to guess you mean Toaster, whose results Vector should have retrieved and I'm eager to see, but how would you know if Toaster targeted Caz?
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 11:25:47 am
Vector tries to confirm you, he dies.I'm going to guess you mean Toaster, whose results Vector should have retrieved and I'm eager to see, but how would you know if Toaster targeted Caz?
?
Checks page one.
Wait, you tried to confuse me.
Let's put it this way. You dreamed about Toony protecting you, he dies. Vector tries to confirm you, he dies. Your role isn't confirmable, and the only protector is dead. There is no reason you shouldn't be the lynch today Caz. Unless you want to implicate Lucky in Toony's murder. (Which is at least possible, his actions yesterday weren't the best)Caz claims they dreamed about Toony protecting. In order to get this Vector needs to talk to Toony tonight. Why would Toaster know about it? If Vecotr can confirm it it will occur tomorrow. And oh so coincidently he dies that night and Caz still turns up no info.
Which came first, web's result or Caz's?
Also, Meph, did you forget to give IcyTea the right auto-result? Cause him claiming a grave disturbed is weird after he said none were.
Thank you.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 11:30:55 am
Let's put it this way. You dreamed about Toony protecting you, he dies. Vector tries to confirm you, he dies. Your role isn't confirmable, and the only protector is dead. There is no reason you shouldn't be the lynch today Caz.Spoiler: TricMagic (click to show/hide)Unless you want to implicate Lucky in Toony's murder. (Which is at least possible, his actions yesterday weren't the best)
Wtf does this mean?
To note Caz, my role may not be confirmable without someone investigating me, but at least it's not an active role that should return results but never seems to, always promising more and more tomorrow. But it never happens.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 11:39:43 am
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:40:48 am
I find it pretty funny that your argument to lynch me is literally based on being uncomfirmable when you are uncomfirmable yourself, without the ability to offer any useful information.
Seriously though. Day 4 and your argument for lynching someone is "they're not confirmable" and not understanding association fallacy re: claimed actions.
To note Caz, my role may not be confirmable without someone investigating me, but at least it's not an active role that should return results but never seems to, always promising more and more tomorrow. But it never happens.
The role does what it does. That you think me providing results that end up not being helpful is less believable than providing results that end up being helpful is a problem with your reasoning. Does a lucky dice roll point to town? No. It is a dice roll.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 11:47:01 am
A question to Meph again, don't auto actions go off along with any other night action? I seem to think they are the type of thing that always go off no matter what they are.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:49:55 am
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 11:51:27 am
A question to Meph again, don't auto actions go off along with any other night action? I seem to think they are the type of thing that always go off no matter what they are.
Generally, no. It's more like a default action that happens unless something else is specified. A Dreamwalker, for example, does an auto-dreamwalk only if they didn't do any other actions that night.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 11:53:05 am
You could go poke Persus, but at this point... More concerned about you honestly. And calling me a kettle doesn't mean much.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 11:55:20 am
Why are you picking apart web's posts? That's the strange part for me, as I don't quite believe them scum.
Holy shit, read them maybe?
I'll give you a tip also: if you are town and believe I am scum, it is still a bad idea for you to vote me today because there is virtually no chance of me being the converted.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 11:56:00 am
Vector cannot be Dark Magus because their actions are confirmed by two different sources (Icy and webadict). They cannot be a real warlock converted by an Icy Dark Magus because the mod essentially just confirmed that Icy is what he claims he is. They cannot be a dark magus who converted thief web because then the bodies wouldn't be getting disturbed. There is the possibility that the wolf team is web/vec, with web as the real warlock and vec as dark magus, I guess, but that's such a slim possibility it's not really worth talking about since that fakeclaim is needlessly complicated.
tl;dr: Vector is always town.
I'm personally leaning towards Caz/Lucky or Tric/Lucky scumteams, with Caz/Persus as a distant third.
Luckyowl
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 12:11:49 pm
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 12:16:47 pm
The fuck? Why do you want me to hunt Lucky? If you think he is suspicious, you do it your damned self. Why are you telling me to focus on someone else when I pick apart web's posts?You implicitly implied I should be focusing Lickyowl, that IcyTea21 wasn't just confirmed not to be the Convert, and has likely just been confirmed as not the Dark Magus due to Vector and I confirming them.
Guess I did both.My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool.
You did neither. Oops!
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:17:35 pm
I'm going to wait to vote until I actually here from Vector, but I'll probably be voting Caz.
Is THIS a dumbtell? Or am I just overestimating people's abilities to actually read the thread?
Town needs to vote for the converted today or the mafia get another kill. I have basically 0 chance of being the converted due to being juicebox day1. So even if you think I am scum, it's a stupid lynch for town.
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 12:19:50 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 12:24:43 pm
An important thing is how many Scum did we start with? If it's 2 then we end up with 3 after convert, and a Demon possession from the botched revival.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 12:26:28 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 12:27:31 pm
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:34:20 pm
The fuck? Why do you want me to hunt Lucky? If you think he is suspicious, you do it your damned self. Why are you telling me to focus on someone else when I pick apart web's posts?You implicitly implied I should be focusing Lickyowl, that IcyTea21 wasn't just confirmed not to be the Convert, and has likely just been confirmed as not the Dark Magus due to Vector and I confirming them.
Why are you replying for TricMagic?
You implicitly implied I should be focusing Lickyowl,I said you should have investigated LuckyOwl, which seems pretty obviously the most useful thing you could have done last night.
that IcyTea21 wasn't just confirmed not to be the Convert,2nd time you've said this without evidence.
and has likely just been confirmed as not the Dark Magus due to Vector and I confirming them.
Excuse me? How have you confirmed Icytea as not the Dark Magus? You got no action result on a role that doesn't show up in action results. How do you spin this as confirming someone?
Guess I did both.My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool.
You did neither. Oops!
Are you trying to take credit for Meph making a mistake in the PMs? WTF. You literally did not confirm anyone. You are lying.
Also I'm drawing a blank at why Web can't be the converted, anyone want to explain that one to me? On my list of 'magus possibles' I have Tric and web, but 'converted possibles' doesn't have web at all. Is that right or am I being dumb?
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 12:35:57 pm
Persus13 is a Witch with NQT. They're confirmed not the Dark Magus.Right, so just us three. I didn't do it obviously. Caz will say he didn't do it. Lucky will stay completely silent as we lynch him and supersaint will trigger, which implicates someone who's night wasn't confirmed. Toaster's info would be nice to have from Vector.
Note the whole silent luckyowl supersainting is just something I could see happening.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:37:01 pm
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:38:52 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 12:42:18 pm
Are you suggesting we lynch 4mask Caz?
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 12:48:08 pm
Caz... I'm not gonna yell at you, but you're fundamentally wrong.The fuck? Why do you want me to hunt Lucky? If you think he is suspicious, you do it your damned self. Why are you telling me to focus on someone else when I pick apart web's posts?You implicitly implied I should be focusing Lickyowl, that IcyTea21 wasn't just confirmed not to be the Convert, and has likely just been confirmed as not the Dark Magus due to Vector and I confirming them.
Why are you replying for TricMagic?You implicitly implied I should be focusing Lickyowl,I said you should have investigated LuckyOwl, which seems pretty obviously the most useful thing you could have done last night.that IcyTea21 wasn't just confirmed not to be the Convert,2nd time you've said this without evidence.and has likely just been confirmed as not the Dark Magus due to Vector and I confirming them.
Excuse me? How have you confirmed Icytea as not the Dark Magus? You got no action result on a role that doesn't show up in action results. How do you spin this as confirming someone?Guess I did both.My goal was to remove a potential suspect from both the Dark Magus and the Convert pool.
You did neither. Oops!
Are you trying to take credit for Meph making a mistake in the PMs? WTF. You literally did not confirm anyone. You are lying.
Also I'm drawing a blank at why Web can't be the converted, anyone want to explain that one to me? On my list of 'magus possibles' I have Tric and web, but 'converted possibles' doesn't have web at all. Is that right or am I being dumb?
IcyTea31 can confirm themselves off of Vector and metagaming-wise by Meph, so they are NOT the Dark Magus. Vector is NOT the Dark Magus because IcyTea31 and I can confirm them. IcyTea31 is NOT the Convert because I can confirm they did not kill last Night, and it is very likely that the Dark Magus used their SS ability, unless you have information otherwise. The only one that isn't confirmed by them is me, but I fundamentally clear them no matter what.
Are you lost still? That means IcyTea31 cannot be the Dark Magus unless both Vector and I are both the Convert. And the only way they could be the Convert is if I'm the Dark Magus.
Technically, I could be the Convert or Dark Magus by actions, but it's also possible that Toaster clears me, in which case, you'd be eating some mighty tasty humble pie. Unless you'd like to say that IcyTea31, Vector, and I are all scum.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:51:08 pm
I honestly see no way LO is town right now.
Bear with me here because I just realised something important.
Why would a scum LO turn down a free devil kill? Lucky claimed they were offered it and declined. Vector claims Jim said Lucky took the kill (Jim lying?). No kill happened. In what scenario would scum choose to use roleblock over another kill? Unless we can find the answer to that, Lucky looks suddenly town. (and I'm starting to hate this game :D)
All other actions are accounted for. So if a supersaint action exists, only you could have done it. (Or me, but I would stay silent and switch to luckyowl a bit later. Unless this is WIFOM)[/quote]
How is web cleared from your point of view?
Are you suggesting we lynch 4mask Caz?
Is this a serious question or have you been drinking paint?
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 12:57:17 pm
Caz... I'm not gonna yell at you, but you're fundamentally wrong.
IcyTea31 can confirm themselves off of Vector and metagaming-wise by Meph, so they are NOT the Dark Magus. Vector is NOT the Dark Magus because IcyTea31 and I can confirm them. IcyTea31 is NOT the Convert because I can confirm they did not kill last Night, and it is very likely that the Dark Magus used their SS ability, unless you have information otherwise. The only one that isn't confirmed by them is me, but I fundamentally clear them no matter what.
Are you lost still? That means IcyTea31 cannot be the Dark Magus unless both Vector and I are both the Convert. And the only way they could be the Convert is if I'm the Dark Magus.
Dude, I know Icy is confirmed looking into disturbed graves by Vector(if they ever post, that is) What I said is that you lied when you said you cleared Icy of being dark magus. Because you didn't. Yet you continue to try and take my posts out of context by relating it to whether Icy is convert.
Technically, I could be the Convert or Dark Magus by actions, but it's also possible that Toaster clears me, in which case, you'd be eating some mighty tasty humble pie. Unless you'd like to say that IcyTea31, Vector, and I are all scum.
Cool, so it could be Web/Tric without requiring spanners. Please prepare this 'pie'.
Post by: Vector on March 08, 2021, 01:00:11 pm
Checked NQT N1 and me N2, green results both times.
Toaster still thinks that the flavor from his being killed was devil-based, not demon. He feels that the demon kill would have been a hell of a lot messier.
Toaster thinks that Jim wouldn't have lied to screw the town based on "personal character" reasons. So he thinks he would have either told the truth or kept quiet. Would have helped the team with the most people he liked on it and been willing to make someone he disliked lose, i.e. Lucky.
Toaster thinks that 4mask is an actual survivor, and that Tric is raging town. Toaster also reminds us that NQT wanted Persus not to be killed as of yesterday, suggesting that NQT thought Persus hadn't been converted.
Toaster thinks Web is in a good position to confirm roles.
Also, Toaster says to be careful of ICT confirming that I visited him, since he's the obvious choice. In other words: don't see it as clearing ICT.
Along similar lines -- this is me talking -- to be careful of Caz having dreams that are only publicly confirmable.
LuckyOwl, do you want to repeat your claim that you didn't take a kill and didn't kill Toaster with it?
PS: I want to note that the Demon is not listed as 3rd-party.
I don't like ICT's suggestion that we vote 4mask.
Also, Toaster's top two DM picks are Caz and ICT.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 01:00:19 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 01:03:57 pm
PS: I want to note that the Demon is not listed as 3rd-party.
The Demon was in fact 3rd party. Corrected in the OP.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:05:32 pm
... Caz, yes, I already mentioned this, but the blood in your eyes must make it hard to read.I honestly see no way LO is town right now.
Bear with me here because I just realised something important.
Why would a scum LO turn down a free devil kill? Lucky claimed they were offered it and declined. Vector claims Jim said Lucky took the kill (Jim lying?). No kill happened. In what scenario would scum choose to use roleblock over another kill? Unless we can find the answer to that, Lucky looks suddenly town. (and I'm starting to hate this game :D)
If Vector lied, then Vector is the Convert. They cannot be the Dark Magus unless I am covering for them. There is no other possibility.
If Jim lied, Luckyowl is probably Town, and Vector is also probably Town.
If neither Vector nor Jim lied, then Luckyowl is the Convert.
Cool, so it could be Web/Tric without requiring spanners. Please prepare this 'pie'.Okay. So, it's indeed not me and Vector then, and that would prove that IcyTea31 is not the Dark Magus or the Convert. And I 100% proved one of those things, which goes directly counter to your statement otherwise.
Well, okay, technically, IcyTea31 is only the not the Convert because I prove their not the Convert because the Sexton would probably still check the graveyard regardless of alignment.
Caz... You just make me shake my head.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:06:22 pm
Also the only reason to convert Lucky was to use their priest power to convert more mafia members (unless they wanted Lucky for their... other qualities), yet Blu was resurrected as a demon. Does this make Lucky more or less likely to have been converted given that there's some flavour about 'pious priests' and whatnot? Do only converted priests have the chance of resurrecting demons? Or did Lucky get the worst dice roll? (Inclined to this one tbh, the dies in this game are cursed)Caz, is it possible that Luckyowl DID use the Devilkill and it hit the wards that ToonyMan set up?
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:08:56 pm
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 01:09:00 pm
Quote
Toaster still thinks that the flavor from his being killed was devil-based, not demon. He feels that the demon kill would have been a hell of a lot messier.
so why weren't there 3 kills last night? Devil, demon, mafia. I still haven't seen an argument why the mafia would opt for a roleblock instead of a kill, ESPECIALLY if magus can't even be tracked while using the mafkill.
Quote
PS: I want to note that the Demon is not listed as 3rd-party.
....Meph?
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 01:09:32 pm
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:16:47 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 01:17:27 pm
If Lucky was converted he'd have been town when the Devil deal was made. He and the demon could also have both killed Toaster (which would make sense with the flavor).I honestly see no way LO is town right now.
Bear with me here because I just realised something important.
Why would a scum LO turn down a free devil kill? Lucky claimed they were offered it and declined. Vector claims Jim said Lucky took the kill (Jim lying?). No kill happened. In what scenario would scum choose to use roleblock over another kill? Unless we can find the answer to that, Lucky looks suddenly town. (and I'm starting to hate this game :D)
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 01:17:52 pm
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:20:29 pm
Game solved.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 01:30:55 pm
The argument is that the demon didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves. Who do you think the town looks at when a random kill matching SK flavor suddenly pops up during the night? That's right, they immediately look at the recently revived player who openly claimed third party. You don't make that kill because it's as good as outing.QuoteToaster still thinks that the flavor from his being killed was devil-based, not demon. He feels that the demon kill would have been a hell of a lot messier.
so why weren't there 3 kills last night? Devil, demon, mafia. I still haven't seen an argument why the mafia would opt for a roleblock instead of a kill, ESPECIALLY if magus can't even be tracked while using the mafkill.
That being said I'm not convinced that the facts support that, Blue made it pretty clear that he had killed Toaster. It is, however, possible that both Lucky and Blue killed Toaster that night and Lucky's devil kill took precedence.
Still, getting rid of the wolf who is potentially holding onto another kill is always good.
Post by: Vector on March 08, 2021, 01:34:25 pm
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 01:40:56 pm
Okay. So, it's indeed not me and Vector then, and that would prove that IcyTea31 is not the Dark Magus or the Convert. And I 100% proved one of those things, which goes directly counter to your statement otherwise.
Well, okay, technically, IcyTea31 is only the not the Convert because I prove their not the Convert because the Sexton would probably still check the graveyard regardless of alignment.
Caz... You just make me shake my head.
"I 100% proved one of those things except technically I didn't"
Ok web :U
Caz, is it possible that Luckyowl DID use the Devilkill and it hit the wards that ToonyMan set up?
No, it isn't possible. If Lucky used the devil kill then the magus would have had to use the mafia kill, but you claimed you were blocked by the magus that night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 01:43:36 pm
Also, I think that the kill on Toaster was a demon kill. There's only been a single demon kill in the entire history of the series and people are acting like it's the only flavor demon kills will ever have. Beating someone into a pulp and ripping their beating heart out of their chest strikes me as more demon than the devil hulk out style.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 01:45:39 pm
The argument is that the demon didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves.
Ok, they didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves, and then spent the entire day not playing or trying to help town?
You guys keep going on about the demon kill flavour being brutal, do you think if Toaster was night killed by both a demon AND a devil they would still be in one piece? Well, two pieces. My point is, they'd be in more pieces.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2021, 01:56:19 pm
I personally think it was a demon kill with different flavor than last time, though that seems to be an unpopular opinion.The argument is that the demon didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves.
Ok, they didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves, and then spent the entire day not playing or trying to help town?
You guys keep going on about the demon kill flavour being brutal, do you think if Toaster was night killed by both a demon AND a devil they would still be in one piece? Well, two pieces. My point is, they'd be in more pieces.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 01:58:07 pm
So, Luckyowl either still has the Devilkill or they used it N3 and hit ToonyMan's protection target.
Yeah I really don't think that the devil kill was used. Unless the wolf team is Dark Magus web/convert Lucky which... no, that's literally never a thing.If I'm Dark Magus, then Luckyowl still is the Convert in that scenario, and that would indeed explain a doublekill and point towards me as scum. In that case, I still lose my partner by eliminating Luckyowl, and I'd be making the Mafiakill Tomorrow. I'd have to kill Vector, so I'd claim Caz killed Vector and then I'd win. So, technically, that's a possibility that isn't accounted for.
Also, I think that the kill on Toaster was a demon kill. There's only been a single demon kill in the entire history of the series and people are acting like it's the only flavor demon kills will ever have. Beating someone into a pulp and ripping their beating heart out of their chest strikes me as more demon than the devil hulk out style.
Perhaps, but Devilkills don't typically destroy hearts, which is an element of brutality beyond normal Devilkills. Honestly, it seems like you're just really against the idea of being tracked because IcyTea31 got cleared, and there suddenly less suspects.The argument is that the demon didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves.
Ok, they didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves, and then spent the entire day not playing or trying to help town?
You guys keep going on about the demon kill flavour being brutal, do you think if Toaster was night killed by both a demon AND a devil they would still be in one piece? Well, two pieces. My point is, they'd be in more pieces.
No, I'm now pretty sure that's the case. Luckyowl couldn't Devilkill N2, so they still have it.I personally think it was a demon kill with different flavor than last time, though that seems to be an unpopular opinion.The argument is that the demon didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves.
Ok, they didn't kill because they didn't want to out themselves, and then spent the entire day not playing or trying to help town?
You guys keep going on about the demon kill flavour being brutal, do you think if Toaster was night killed by both a demon AND a devil they would still be in one piece? Well, two pieces. My point is, they'd be in more pieces.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:02:11 pm
So, Luckyowl either still has the Devilkill or they used it N3 and hit ToonyMan's protection target.
You think the mafia tried to kill ME last night? Why on earth?
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 02:03:28 pm
You're one of the remaining town info-roles if you're not on the scumteam.So, Luckyowl either still has the Devilkill or they used it N3 and hit ToonyMan's protection target.
You think the mafia tried to kill ME last night? Why on earth?
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 02:08:33 pm
Assuming you're telling the truth about ToonyMan, perhaps they didn't want to take a chance on killing someone that was going to be protected by ToonyMan.So, Luckyowl either still has the Devilkill or they used it N3 and hit ToonyMan's protection target.
You think the mafia tried to kill ME last night? Why on earth?
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 02:10:57 pm
Note that tonight, Vector can visit Toony to see if Caz is lying, while Web follows Caz to see if he targets anyone. This then means that either Persus or I are the Magus. However this only holds true if Caz is tracked continuously while we lynch our way down. If the kill occurs anyway.
You know, this is a bad situation. Web will likely end up killed via supersaint. Then Vector will die that night, leaving us with a dreamwalker saying I or did the kill, which can't be trusted. If this goes through, it's game over if I'm lynched, as a tie can no longer occur. Worst part is 4mask can easily assist to win the game, so it's 2-2. Kingmaker 4mask.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:12:30 pm
Honestly, it seems like you're just really against the idea of being tracked because IcyTea31 got cleared, and there suddenly less suspects.
You're doing that thing again where you claim you can clear people that you can't. How does a thief clear a dreamwalker?
Why am I the only one noticing that webadict has constantly lied and misrepresented throughout this day?
Lucky taking the Devil deal is also assuming Jim is reliable, which I'm not sure why people are assuming a third-party who has lost already would be.
True, but why would Lucky turn down a kill action if they are scum? If they didn't take the deal, they're likely to be town, no? Or do you think even a town Lucky would turn down the deal?
You're one of the remaining town info-roles if you're not on the scumteam.
Over Vector or web though? But I'll take the point.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 02:12:39 pm
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 02:16:53 pm
If I'm Dark Magus, then Luckyowl still is the Convert in that scenario, and that would indeed explain a doublekill and point towards me as scum. In that case, I still lose my partner by eliminating Luckyowl, and I'd be making the Mafiakill Tomorrow. I'd have to kill Vector, so I'd claim Caz killed Vector and then I'd win. So, technically, that's a possibility that isn't accounted for.
No, you don't win, I'm a knight so can't be nightkilled. At some point I have to be lynched for scum to win.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 02:18:55 pm
So, Luckyowl either still has the Devilkill or they used it N3 and hit ToonyMan's protection target.
You think the mafia tried to kill ME last night? Why on earth?
The fact you can't even comprehend them getting rid of a dreamwalker is astounding Caz, you are a Russian Roulette of confirmation and scum-outing. Hence why Toony protecting you makes sense, and hence why such makes a good falseclaim today. Toony is dead after all.
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 02:20:24 pm
You're doing that thing again where you claim you can clear people that you can't. How does a thief clear a dreamwalker?To the first, because if you're the Dark Magus, you have to kill. I'm able to Follow the faction kill, but I believe that Mephansteras did not say so in the post in thread. If it eases your mind:
Why am I the only one noticing that webadict has constantly lied and misrepresented throughout this day?
@Meph: Can a Thief follow the Mafiakill if a Dark Magus makes it?
To the second, because I haven't. You're the one that just isn't understanding.
The Dark Magus has a double vote ability, so it could eventually be used to take you down, otherwise I'd be in agreement.
If I'm Dark Magus, then Luckyowl still is the Convert in that scenario, and that would indeed explain a doublekill and point towards me as scum. In that case, I still lose my partner by eliminating Luckyowl, and I'd be making the Mafiakill Tomorrow. I'd have to kill Vector, so I'd claim Caz killed Vector and then I'd win. So, technically, that's a possibility that isn't accounted for.
No, you don't win, I'm a knight so can't be nightkilled. At some point I have to be lynched for scum to win.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:21:42 pm
Note that tonight, Vector can visit Toony to see if Caz is lying, while Web follows Caz to see if he targets anyone.
This then means that either Persus or I are the Magus. However this only holds true if Caz is tracked continuously while we lynch our way down. If the kill occurs anyway.
...This is only possible if juicebox was converted n1. So basically... your mind is beyond repair.
You know, this is a bad situation. Web will likely end up killed via supersaint. Then Vector will die that night, leaving us with a dreamwalker saying I or did the kill, which can't be trusted. If this goes through, it's game over if I'm lynched, as a tie can no longer occur. Worst part is 4mask can easily assist to win the game, so it's 2-2. Kingmaker 4mask.
Vector will definitely die tonight, leaving web alive to claim some crap. How is webadict clear to you, Persus?
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 02:22:54 pm
Pretty much every theory I've seen involving Lucky being on the scumteam involves him being converted. The conversion would have happened after the devil offer.Lucky taking the Devil deal is also assuming Jim is reliable, which I'm not sure why people are assuming a third-party who has lost already would be.
True, but why would Lucky turn down a kill action if they are scum? If they didn't take the deal, they're likely to be town, no? Or do you think even a town Lucky would turn down the deal?
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 02:24:00 pm
A Thief follows you while Vector talks with Toony. By your own statement Toony protected you. If this is a lie, you get lynched, if not, you are safe from the lynch. If someone dies while you get followed, you are effectively confirmed town, since you didn't do the kill. Unless it's web, but in that case Vector lives and states what Toony told them.Honestly, it seems like you're just really against the idea of being tracked because IcyTea31 got cleared, and there suddenly less suspects.
You're doing that thing again where you claim you can clear people that you can't. How does a thief clear a dreamwalker?
Why am I the only one noticing that webadict has constantly lied and misrepresented throughout this day?
Except Supersaint, which means you get followed and likely lynched if web dies, unless Dreamwalker actually returns something of note. Toony protecting you is a decent guess that could happen.
How is it so broken, as in this scenario where LO is the convert you are the Dark Magus.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:29:50 pm
The fact you can't even comprehend them getting rid of a dreamwalker is astounding Caz, you are a Russian Roulette of confirmation and scum-outing. Hence why Toony protecting you makes sense, and hence why such makes a good falseclaim today. Toony is dead after all.
So I simultaneously can't comprehend why scum would get rid of me AND believed it so strongly that I made it into a fakeclaim?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 02:31:16 pm
Its also mechanically impossible for me to be the Magus.True, but that could also mean that Luckyowl lied about saying no when they took it so that no one knew they had it as a potential lylo breaker.Pretty much every theory I've seen involving Lucky being on the scumteam involves him being converted. The conversion would have happened after the devil offer.Lucky taking the Devil deal is also assuming Jim is reliable, which I'm not sure why people are assuming a third-party who has lost already would be.
True, but why would Lucky turn down a kill action if they are scum? If they didn't take the deal, they're likely to be town, no? Or do you think even a town Lucky would turn down the deal?
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:34:58 pm
A Thief follows you while Vector talks with Toony. By your own statement Toony protected you. If this is a lie, you get lynched, if not, you are safe from the lynch. If someone dies while you get followed, you are effectively confirmed town, since you didn't do the kill. Unless it's web, but in that case Vector lives and states what Toony told them.
Except Supersaint, which means you get followed and likely lynched if web dies, unless Dreamwalker actually returns something of note. Toony protecting you is a decent guess that could happen.
How is it so broken, as in this scenario where LO is the convert you are the Dark Magus.
It's broken because in that scenario, if you are town, then it doesn't confirm anyone. It's still either me or web from your point of view.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:38:25 pm
Its also mechanically impossible for me to be the Magus.True, but that could also mean that Luckyowl lied about saying no when they took it so that no one knew they had it as a potential lylo breaker.Pretty much every theory I've seen involving Lucky being on the scumteam involves him being converted. The conversion would have happened after the devil offer.Lucky taking the Devil deal is also assuming Jim is reliable, which I'm not sure why people are assuming a third-party who has lost already would be.
True, but why would Lucky turn down a kill action if they are scum? If they didn't take the deal, they're likely to be town, no? Or do you think even a town Lucky would turn down the deal?
Wait, does this mean Lucky said they didn't take the offer before they were possibly converted? Or did that happen the same night? My brain is broken.
I don't think we're gonna get anywhere else today tbh and I'm tired af so I'm just gonna vote LuckyOwl and hope the supersaint thing blows me up. Then you guys can lynch web.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 02:39:14 pm
@Meph: Can a Thief follow the Mafiakill if a Dark Magus makes it?
All kills are in person, so yes.
Post by: Caz on March 08, 2021, 02:42:17 pm
@Meph: Can a Thief follow the Mafiakill if a Dark Magus makes it?
All kills are in person, so yes.
Well at least if Tric is the maf it means they won't win, which has truly gladdened me.
Post by: Vector on March 08, 2021, 02:43:57 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2021, 02:50:12 pm
True, but that could also mean that Luckyowl lied about saying no when they took it so that no one knew they had it as a potential lylo breaker.I'm not convinced Lucky would think that far ahead.
Wait, does this mean Lucky said they didn't take the offer before they were possibly converted? Or did that happen the same night? My brain is broken.Same night.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 08, 2021, 03:04:58 pm
Caz: 1: TricMagic
Luckyowl: 4: 4maskwolf, Caz, Vector, webadict
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 03:07:15 pm
I know you showed up at 9, were you told to stay quiet? Feel free to talk~
Post by: webadict on March 08, 2021, 07:53:58 pm
Regardless, it may be helpful for finding interactions for the Dark Magus, just in case it's somehow IcyTea31 or 4maskwolf or something:
Detailed Player Summary for Luckyowl
------------------------
inception.
I am present and also town.
did your scum team told you to say that? or are you going rogue?
I am present, and again I am town. I won't be saying much since I hate day 1 and would only make myself look scummy eventhough I am town. If anything I will be useful for townies during the night phase. If scum kills me then at least you'll see I'll flip and my night action will still go through either way.
yeah, I work during the day and finish in the evening. So I'm mostly not here for a good while. When the game started on weds I came back to 7 pages of nonsense rvs and memefeast post that I didn't wish to give a 'read' on those sort of nonsense so I went off to play some M&B:2. Here I am and now it seems I'm up the chopping block. So I'll laid out a proposal. I am the priest and I think we should lynch webadict. Mainly for two reason. If he is scum, then we just outted a pretty terrifying scum player, if he is town then I can rez him at night bringing him back into the game as a more powerful confirmed town. It's a win-win in all account. A dead scum! Web is great and a confirmed town! web who was brought from the dead is even better.
I think the mafia team includes, you,Icytea31, and NQT. But I don't have anything solidfying those claims yet. Just a gut read. I personally wanted to stay quiet for two reasons. First I wanted go off and play games with few hours I have to myself and two I am afraid that I would get night killed all I hope is that someone can protect me as I res Web if he turn out to be town with his lynch. Sadly. I doubt anyone would join in with my plan, but it's the only way I can confirm myself as a town player by bringing a possible town player and make them a powerful confirmed town player. If we lynch a scum! Web then that too confirms me.
Why Web instead of TM? because I trust/distrust Web. He's too townie, but that also makes him quite terrifying as Web is always townie even when he is scum. So killing off web can bring my paranoia at ease knowing Web was either a scum in sheeps clothing or a town player who I can bring back from the dead and make him even more formidable. I would rather deal ToonyMan some other time.
Well...damn you're right. That too worries me. I just hope everything go as plan.
1. I mean, I have done that before in my first mafia game Paranormal 26. Where I said I didn't want to engage until day 2 then I ended up soaking up day 1 discussion. 2. Because getting a confirmed Town! Web back is better in my opinion. I mean lynching you is fine. But I'm more worried with Web hiding underneath the radar.3. well, if lynch Scum! Web and he is back in the game on day 2 wouldn't that just be backwards on my part?
oh my bad, not really sure. It's not easy to know just yet we would have to wait and see as the game progress. I mean, what does Vampire scum do on day 1? or what does a cult scum team do as well? probably the samething as any scumteam: act as town. So I'll answer your question with I don't know as I am not familar with this set up nor have a gut feeling on what type of scumteam we have.
But couldn't your fight had just been staged? I have to doubt everyone. Vector. Just because you fought with him doesn't mean all checks out. You know that very well.
Well, who do you think we should lynch who seem scummy? I'm up for JB,TRM or even SRD.
You're right, I simply don't trust Web or Vector under my beliefs. They are both fully capable of just faking a stage so the only way I can cut through the possible act is by doing something unusual like lynching someone who is seem townie since you know, the scum is going to try to act more like townie no matter what. But I'm fine with lynching a possible scum player like JB, TRM, or SRD then I can bring one of them back from the dead. Me personally, I wish to lynch TricMagic instead of JB. Because TricMagic engage with the game more than JB.
is all the vote piling onto me? well, there goes town rez. A damn shame really.
I think ToonyMan is the scum team. His playstyle remind me of SecretDorf in terminator. He tries to act like he's trying to help me out, but really he is trying to get me lynch. I already told you I worked today. Yet you ask me where Am I?
Why even vote Blue? wouldn't that just make me look scummy? look. Even I am going to lynch then just hammer me. I already role claimed and you'll see that I'll flip town.
I am going after him, because things are aligning for me. Why go after JB who look scummy? but is probably town? why go after paranoid Tric who is most likely town? Sure, there is scummy players who acts scummy. But good scum player try to act as town. ToonyMan is giving off that FBI agent vibe real hard right now.
fine, BlularianKnight. They have the same townie act from Vengeful mafia 14 and gave that sorry plead to not vote him.
You seem so quick to vote me out. 4maskwolf. Blu is has been rez he will speak soon. However I do have some troubling news to speak of. Before I went to Blu's grave I was visited by a voice who tried to convince me to give them my soul exchange for power. They even tried to say it will make me look town...I obvisouly decline the offer as I'm a preist and my role is to fix day 1 fuck ups.
wow, if you're town you're really trying to throw off a town victory. Sorry for not being here when I had other things to do?Why scum ignored me on night phase? probably to get me lynch on day 2 with bogus reasoning(seriously, we're all going to ignore that 4mask wanted me lynch because"if Lucky flip town, then blu is town..)...and I already voted 4mask, ToonyMan. but I'm might as well place my vote onto you..
Hm, so we're dealing with a converter? Well, that pretty much cross me off as a possible suspect. Since I brought Blu back from the dead. Sadly, it seems not as townie. From my understanding from meph explanation on how my one shot ability works. Is that I don't know if I'm pure or not. Which has nothing to do with my alignment. Also another tidbit. I ask Meph if my ability will trigger if I'm night killed and he gave more than what I asked and said that my night action is low on the pirority list so If I'm interuppted my night action won't go through. So if I were converted then Blu wouldn't be here.
The devil offer night kill, misdirections, and protect.
I can't..you know if I flip town and these ridículos claims are left here for people to see. It'll only make you look bad. There's better targets than me,Like NQT. Why, oh why would I create an eleborate or my "puppeteer" would create an convulted plan to lie about me rezzing? The fact you are thinking like this ironically makes me think you're town misguided. if I knew the devil deal was a neutral party and the deal was good for town as well. I would've accepted it and probably never mention it so I don't give the scum more info on what else I can do.
Persus13: The voice came when I was preparing to leave to the graveyard. Distrubing the dead is low on the pirority list. You can look at the OP order action.
I won't say no more. As I said I thought the devil was some sort of scum. I wasn't aware it was a neutral party. ToonyMan: Fine, you want to think I'm scum because I'm a compulsive liar. Sure. go ahead. luckyowl let's see if I'm lying.
Well, I'm gonna get lynch one way or another. At the end, I weirdly think ToonyMan might be town as he's trying his hardest to get me lynch. A scum player wouldn't have gone through extrme length knowing I'll flip town and they will have to justify their hard push onto me. Web is oddly passive, and I think town should think about that a bit.Overall, lynching me won't get us nowhere. But if that is how my townie brethen and scum want to go for. Then so be it.
Vote for who you think is scum. ToonyMan. If it's me then stick with that.
What more is there to be done?
Fine, unvote, Webadict. that's where I'm putting my vote.
Just gut-reading. But Web have been acting a bit too passive. It's a behavior that felt quite similar to his scum play in Vengekill 13 on day 1 and day 2ish.
I was pretty annoyed by ToonyMan bogus push so I went to play some games to calm down than make more of a fool of myself.
I think he's an uninform townie. But still, I got pretty mad by those weak reasons. I'm a lot calmer now. So yeah.
Why did I kill Toaster? Are you really serious about this? Lol. Let me ask you this, why would I even kill toaster? Right now, I'm putting 4maskwolf and ToonyMan in the same scumteam. ToonyMan has always been town-scummy to me and the only reason they did a hard switch on day 2 was because they knew my flip will ruin their reputation. So they enter day 3 and had me as a strong town only to be 'convince' that I am the scum through dumb reason. Obviously my death will only ensure a scum victory.
Bruh, Of course he is...
Haha, for real. If I did I would've protected NQT. I guess I'm placing my vote on Vector. For that ridiclous lie.
But that does make me wonder though. What type of deal Jim was trying to give me? He told me wanted my soul exchange for protect, role-block and night kills. If I knew the devil was a neutral party I would've accpet it and probably never bring it up and then revealed today that protected NQT.
Your case against me is laughable. Alright that's set. Vector, TM, and 4maskwolf. If I die that's pretty much it for town. TM is really wasting his time when he should be looking at Vector. Who is obviously lying or probably got some sort of tampered "evidence" by a scum player to cause this sort of havoc.
What? Well, I'm not the wolf? I thought we're dealing with cults?
Well if I'm lynch you'll see I'm telling the truth. But of course I'm being set up as an easy lynch so mafia can enter Mylo.
Nah, out of spite. I would've killed ToonyMan.
I'm town because I know I am town. I'm not sure how dark magus playstyle works. But I would go out of a whim and say Dark Magus is 4maskwolf and the convert has to be Vector. But I'm willing to believe that Jim gave Vector the wrong info to throw off the game for town and get me lynch for kicks. Or maybe a redirect? If that's the case then I think we might have a ToonyMan/Webadict. The second kill is obviously an SK. Which easily leaves blu as the SK.
Because the claim in my eyes is wrong. Therefore Vector is seems to be scummy. But again I'm willing to trust Web and say Jim is probably being unreliable for jokes.
Are you mad?! I haven't done anything last night. I refuse the devil deal and used my one shot ability to rez Blu. Why do we need a second devil? I pretty sure someone might be a third-party with a night kill.
Man, you're really trying to get me with this. Web? . Me and Blue are not working together. Yes, I revived him. But that is all I did. What he became after his revival is a mystery to me. But I'm glad he blocked me because this pretty much clears me of killing anyone. Expose Vector of possibly lying or Jim being a dick and the most important of them all. Blu couldn't have killed if he blocked me. This mean we are at MYLO and the scum is trying to push the lynch onto me. Right now I think we might have a Web/ToonyMan. Or possibly a Vector/Web.
From my point of view. I feel I can trust Blu for blocking me. I'm not sure what's his wincon, but hopefully it's a town wincon. Of course I still think Vector is scum who thought he could just lie like that and get away and the more he stay silent on it the more I feel like he is the scum. Webadict might be the convert who is trying to use flavor kill as a way to get me lynch. Honestly if he's town shame on him because they're more damning players like Vector's silence on my claim and ICT who haven't even claimed anything. The fact you're not pushing ICT as the possible killer is worrisome.
Oof. I just read through. Blu: ¿¿Why? ?
Well if he's SK. We might as well vote him out. At least it will give us sometime.
I still think Web and Vector are scum team. But that's only because I know I didn't take the deal and if I did I would've claimed that I took the deal today and would've protected NQT with it. But as I said many many times. I didn't know the devil was a neutral party.
He's been real quiet. Too quiet for my liking. But with Blu's claim on killing Toaster. I think he's just busy in IRL then scum lurking.
The Jig is up. Blue. They got us. It's all over./s
Blu can't be scum. . Why would he claim he killed Toaster as scum? He's definetly the SK. But scum? Not even. I'm still fine with lynching him as getting rid of third party is better than getting rid of another possible town. More likely someone other than me will get killed and of course the scum is going to try to push me for an easy lynch. Only three players have tried to get me lynch. Vector, Web, and ToonyMan. These fellow are hard scum to me. Web using flimsy flavour kill to make me the liar who accpeted the devil's deal. ToonyMan trying to push for my lynch early on and realize if I flip it'll make him look scummy so he tries to back off and even did fake "I'll vote whoever you vote." But changed it anyways. They started the day off as me being a strong town, but when Vector fake claim he automatically made me the scum. He wants to use pass games that I am a liar. But not for Vector? Who lied to Web as the scum in a 3 player game convincing Web that SD was the scum? But no, I'm the one who is lying. Yeah, no u.
Because I'm 100% sure Vector is scum.
Post by: TricMagic on March 08, 2021, 08:18:30 pm
Post by: Luckyowl on March 08, 2021, 11:19:56 pm
I still think Vector is scum because I know I am town and he just lied. But now I am certain we have a vector/Web team. So when I flip town that'll show that Vector is lying. While Web tries to defend him claiming Jim probably lied. Which is WIFOM. Is Jim known to be a sore loser and lie?
Post by: Vector on March 08, 2021, 11:36:34 pm
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2021, 04:20:02 am
Vector
I still think Vector is scum because I know I am town and he just lied. But now I am certain we have a vector/Web team. So when I flip town that'll show that Vector is lying. While Web tries to defend him claiming Jim probably lied. Which is WIFOM. Is Jim known to be a sore loser and lie?
You really think scum would give up their supersaint to go digging graves and give up the possibility to control the lynch?
What am I saying, it's obvious you haven't even bothered to read the thread.
Post by: webadict on March 09, 2021, 07:39:47 am
Shorten. I still plan to Follow Caz, and if both Vector and I are dead, I strongly suspect Caz.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 08:15:42 am
LuckyOwl, do you want to repeat your claim that you didn't take a kill and didn't kill Toaster with it?
Damn straight I'll claim that again and again. Because it's not true and never have been true and if I have to flip for you to see the truth then so be it. Shorten.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 08:17:25 am
Vector
I still think Vector is scum because I know I am town and he just lied. But now I am certain we have a vector/Web team. So when I flip town that'll show that Vector is lying. While Web tries to defend him claiming Jim probably lied. Which is WIFOM. Is Jim known to be a sore loser and lie?
You really think scum would give up their supersaint to go digging graves and give up the possibility to control the lynch?
What am I saying, it's obvious you haven't even bothered to read the thread.
You know if it isn't them. Then it's you and Tric right?
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 08:21:25 am
If Lucky was converted he'd have been town when the Devil deal was made. He and the demon could also have both killed Toaster (which would make sense with the flavor).I honestly see no way LO is town right now.
Bear with me here because I just realised something important.
Why would a scum LO turn down a free devil kill? Lucky claimed they were offered it and declined. Vector claims Jim said Lucky took the kill (Jim lying?). No kill happened. In what scenario would scum choose to use roleblock over another kill? Unless we can find the answer to that, Lucky looks suddenly town. (and I'm starting to hate this game :D)
If you look at the night action pirority you'll see that convert is first to distrubing the dead. So I wouldn't have been town if I rez Blu.
Post by: TricMagic on March 09, 2021, 09:07:08 am
Which means they would be rezzed as scum. Or third party due to botching the resurrection. Claiming day 1 was not a good idea lucky.If Lucky was converted he'd have been town when the Devil deal was made. He and the demon could also have both killed Toaster (which would make sense with the flavor).I honestly see no way LO is town right now.
Bear with me here because I just realised something important.
Why would a scum LO turn down a free devil kill? Lucky claimed they were offered it and declined. Vector claims Jim said Lucky took the kill (Jim lying?). No kill happened. In what scenario would scum choose to use roleblock over another kill? Unless we can find the answer to that, Lucky looks suddenly town. (and I'm starting to hate this game :D)
If you look at the night action pirority you'll see that convert is first to distrubing the dead. So I wouldn't have been town if I rez Blu.
Shorten
Persus and Icytea are pretty quiet today. Though if supersaint occurs here Icytea is confirmed town, leaving 3 suspects left. Me, Persus, and Caz.
Post by: webadict on March 09, 2021, 09:15:24 am
Your Devildeal was done before the Convert.
I don't think it is both Caz and Tric.
You accepted that you were roleblocked by a Vampire that never existed.
You did the kill Last Night.
@Tric: Persus13 is clear because they are a Witch.
Post by: TricMagic on March 09, 2021, 09:18:13 am
Right, so this is basically game. Outside of an off-the-wall Web/Icy scumteam.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2021, 09:19:26 am
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 09:46:50 am
Lucky, if you actually think Vector and I are scum, like you have for the entire game, then you aren't paying attention. In order for us to both be scum, either IcyTea31 is scum or some really convoluted series of steps happened that still point to you being scum.
Your Devildeal was done before the Convert.
I don't think it is both Caz and Tric.
You accepted that you were roleblocked by a Vampire that never existed.
You did the kill Last Night.
@Tric: Persus13 is clear because they are a Witch.
If you aren't scum then Vector is scum with someone else. But I find that hard to believe. I am for certain you are DM and Vector is the convert.
You speak about there has to be convulted steps for the both of you to be scum? ...but you tried to get me lynch over a superfiacial flavor kill...have you even took the time to consider that there wasn't a second kill? Either way, town need to overlook my town play mistakes and notice that the scum isn't the one who is acting scummy it's always someone who is hiding underneath your nose! If I'm wrong about Vector and Web then it has to be Persus and Caz. Don't let yourself be fooled by logic! That's what the mafia wants you to think so they can make you vote me off then TricMagic then next day!...with that out of the way I'll gladly walk up the gallows. Town, try to outguess the scum.
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2021, 09:58:33 am
Don't let yourself be fooled by logic!
That's REALLY not a problem that people are having this game.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2021, 10:00:05 am
I already did the explanation on why Vector can never be a wolf.
Vector can never be a wolf.
If you want to save your wolfy hide, find someone else to go after.
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2021, 10:02:03 am
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 10:24:37 am
Webadict
Post by: Luckyowl on March 09, 2021, 10:26:04 am
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2021, 10:29:21 am
Luckyowl: 5: 4maskwolf, Caz, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
webadict: 1: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. There are 4/8 players voting to Shorten. 6 votes needed to Shorten the day.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2021, 10:31:22 am
The Scribe's Tally Sheet5 shortens. web lucky tric 4mask caz.
Luckyowl: 5: 4maskwolf, Caz, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
webadict: 1: Luckyowl
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. There are 4/8 players voting to Shorten. 6 votes needed to Shorten the day.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2021, 10:34:53 am
Post by: Persus13 on March 09, 2021, 10:42:16 am
Post by: Mephansteras on March 09, 2021, 11:52:25 am
Luckyowl: 6: 4maskwolf, Caz, Persus13, TricMagic, Vector, webadict
webadict: 1: Luckyowl
The Count just nods grimly at your decision to cut another Trial short. After all, you found a Demon last time. What shall you uncover today?
The votes are cast, nearly all for Luckyowl.
They bow their head in prayer as the lights around you dim and the runes glow brightly around their neck. But even years of service as a Priest cannot prepare one for such torment. Their screams are, at least, mercifully brief.
The Count looks over the black marks around Luckyowl's neck. "I fear you were wrong today. Our good Priest here was loyal to us to the end."
He gestures to the entrance of the tent.
"Return to your homes. The Trial shall continue in the morning. May the gods look after you all.
Night has fallen. Send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 12:33:12 pm
Another dawn. Another pull from the Binding. The Trials await.
You arrive and mill around a bit. Vector and Persus13, however, do not arrive.
Your hearts sink. This can only be bad news.
The Count enters. He looks worn, and tired. You doubt he’s slept much this week. He Looks around, and then begins to speak.
“So few left. I fear we are failing. Last night Vector was burned to death. Though they were a Warlock, it seems they were on our side. And Persus, another of the Coven Witches, was also slain. His body dismembered and partially eaten. I...do not know who would do such a gruesome thing.”
“I do.” Webadict stands up. He makes some strange gestures with his hands, and stretches. The orange runes of Binding glow brightly on his neck for a moment, and then explode outwards from him.
“Enough of this farce. Your Binding magic is weak. Your gods are weak. You are Weak. And today I take my rightful place as ruler of these lands!” The Dark Magus clenches a fist in front of him and dark purple runes begin to float in the air around him.
The Knight TricMagic rushes towards him, dagger in hand. The Magus simply waves a hand and runes encircle the brave warrior. He screams in terror and collapses to the ground as they bind with his flesh.
Moments later he rises to his feet. His eyes glow with an unearthly purple light, and he takes hold of IcyTea. The dagger at his throat the Sexton puts up his hands in surrender.
The Ghoul 4maskwolf grabs onto Caz’s shoulder and shoves the Dreamwalker back into her seat. “I wouldn’t do anything rash, friend. I’m in a good mood this morning, and you really don’t want to ruin that.” She nods, and folds her hands in her lap.
The Count opens his book, and frantically flips through it searching for some magic that will aid him.
Webadict intones a Word of power, and the book is ripped from the Count’s hands and flies over to its new Master.
The Magus casually opens it to a precise page and invokes the runes within.
The Count screams in horror as he is drawn into the book, locked into the ink and vellum within.
Webadict then looks around. “Well. That went well. Time to inform the rest of the land who their new ruler is.”
He gives a grim chuckle.
“And then the real work can begin.”
And that's game!
A bit unusual to end at 3-town 2-scum, but there was just no way for town to win mechanically at this point. Even if you guessed exactly who was who, no matter who you voted for the game would end with a Magus victory in a day or two.
Turned out to be a very interesting game! I hope everyone had fun.
Spoiler: Role Pms (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 12:35:49 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 12:37:59 pm
Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 12:40:07 pm
Spoiler: Night 3 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 4 (click to show/hide)
Post by: TricMagic on March 10, 2021, 12:43:44 pm
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ImperturbableSpectacularAcornwoodpecker-size_restricted.gif)
... Figures. Lynch survivor claims huh.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 12:44:02 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 10, 2021, 12:44:34 pm
Good game scum team, and props to 4mask for his audacious claim.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 12:45:42 pm
I would have been content to sit on that fakeclaim until game end but nooooooooo, I had to get converted N1.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 12:45:52 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 12:46:29 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 12:48:36 pm
I knew we were doomed when Lucky flipped town. I had Web in mind last night as the Convert, but I guess he played us too hard to think him DM. Well damn!Funny story about this: webadict's claim was weaker than it could have been, because he planned to claim to have tracked Vector to blue N1 before Vector actually claimed it but didn't get a chance to post until after Vector had claimed.
Good game scum team, and props to 4mask for his audacious claim.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 12:51:12 pm
Honestly, Caz WAS right, and if they had a bit more followthrough, they might have had a good standing to go after me! I think if Caz can use that paranoia a bit and stymie their lashing out, they might have gotten me good!
I actually thought Toaster might have inspected me because they said I was a potential DM pick, and that was scaaaaaary. We almost went full meme and blocked ToonyMan and killed Vector!
Post by: Toaster on March 10, 2021, 12:56:21 pm
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 12:59:43 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:00:58 pm
Jim wolf MVP tbh.
Edit: Blue, some advice for the future: if you're misrevived as a demon in a future supernatural (unlikely but y'know) your best chance is to claim survivor or your original role and lay low until endgame. Killing someone is outing and the only reason people didn't puvlerize you immediately is because Jim lied about Lucky.
Post by: Caz on March 10, 2021, 01:05:33 pm
I ain't even mad. GG.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 01:07:57 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on March 10, 2021, 01:08:18 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 01:08:58 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 10, 2021, 01:11:33 pm
I like to think I managed to pick up on Jim's inherent scumminess, even if it was a misfire on a devil. And giving Caz and Lucky another chance was absolutely correct.
I was right about Toony and Vector being town, and I was able to solidify Persus's Witch claim on my death so there was that.
Here's the Witch Chat (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/gQmvuh4CTdvRb).
And finally if there's one thing this game proves is that you should never shorten at LYLO...
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:14:33 pm
I'm just going to have to policy lynch you in all future games.-sad 4mask noises-
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 01:14:56 pm
Post by: Vector on March 10, 2021, 01:15:15 pm
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 01:16:19 pm
...You SSed YOURSELF? Also two kills wtf.Well, I assumed I was gonna get inspected and die. Things just sort of worked out really, really well.
I ain't even mad. GG.
I made a lot of bad plays this game - not my proudest moment. Still was getting my feet wet with a real Mafia game on the forms - add that with a bit of family drama, and I was a mess. Surprised I made it so far - I should've jumped on the Web claim. I suspected he was giving me an Out, but I wasn't sure.Actually the opposite. I could use that as evidence you were scum and get you eliminated. The flavor I chose was slightly ambiguous but vampires have specific ways they roleblock. I just didn't realize that until I started looking back.
But, I gave Mephansteras a three page report on a bunch of new monster scum factions to use next time, so we'll get new ones!
Well done Web, didn't see that one-- though now I think on it there were some clues. And 4mask, good claiming-- being super active in the thread sold it; I'm just going to have to policy lynch you in all future games.I actually converted 4maskwolf for that exact reason. Even if they were a Survivor, I figured they'd make it to Lylo and win. Them being an SK was a bonus, honestly.
I like to think I managed to pick up on Jim's inherent scumminess, even if it was a misfire on a devil. And giving Caz and Lucky another chance was absolutely correct.
I was right about Toony and Vector being town, and I was able to solidify Persus's Witch claim on my death so there was that.
Here's the Witch Chat (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/gQmvuh4CTdvRb).
And finally if there's one thing this game proves is that you should never shorten at LYLO...
Overall, MVP of the scumteam was really 4maskwolf.
Protecting Web over NQT on N2 was an utter failure on my part. I seriously couldn't decide between the two and picked Web last minute for defending me even though Lucky suspected them...That is what Town!web would do, so fair.
*sigh*You are the only person I owe an apology to.
Post by: TricMagic on March 10, 2021, 01:18:50 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:21:33 pm
Lesson 1: Do not try fakeclaims in a game you know little about. Lesson 2: Know Web's meta better. Lesson 3: Lynch Survivors if they don't have a day they need to survive to.That third lesson is entirely false.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that survivors have to survive to a specific day, they just have to survive to the end of the game.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 01:22:03 pm
Lesson 1: Do not try fakeclaims in a game you know little about. Lesson 2: Know Web's meta better. Lesson 3: Lynch Survivors if they don't have a day they need to survive to.1. Don't fucking claim Knight on Day 1. Pro Tip: Fakeclaim a juicy power role as a Knight to DRAW kills.
2. True.
3. Always lynching survivors from now on.
Post by: notquitethere on March 10, 2021, 01:23:34 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:25:01 pm
As a reader after I was dead, I did find it very puzzling how everyone just accepted that Web had cleared Vector, as if Vector needed clearing or that that was something he could do or would have made sense for him to do if he could do. What was I missing? Also ICT and Vector had contradicting claims but both were town, what was the misunderstanding?Icy and Vector weren't contradictory, just esoteric mechanics and mod error. Devils don't leave bodies, and thus lack graves, but can be contacted by warlocks regardless. The next one was mod error to not send Icy his PM.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 01:27:32 pm
As a reader after I was dead, I did find it very puzzling how everyone just accepted that Web had cleared Vector, as if Vector needed clearing or that that was something he could do or would have made sense for him to do if he could do. What was I missing? Also ICT and Vector had contradicting claims but both were town, what was the misunderstanding?Devils don't leave bodies so it doesn't contradict.
Jim was an asshole which made Vector shady if Lucky was town.
I was very convinced the scum team was either Web/Vec or Icy/Lucky. When Lucky flipped town all I could tell is that Web was 100% scum but it didn't matter at that point since they could use their double vote and strong arm 4mask into siding with them.
I considered a converted 4mask, which would have actually give town a chance, except they had a kill too rip. Can converts stop having kills too Meph?? It happens so often in mafia wins.
By the way Meph this is officially your longest game on Bay12.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 01:29:39 pm
As a reader after I was dead, I did find it very puzzling how everyone just accepted that Web had cleared Vector, as if Vector needed clearing or that that was something he could do or would have made sense for him to do if he could do. What was I missing? Also ICT and Vector had contradicting claims but both were town, what was the misunderstanding?Well... I did rely on my claiming Vector to passively clear myself, and sort of lent my own towncred on them as well. It was sort of like an investment scheme, where we both look more Town by doing so, and I chain my own alignment clearing on them. It's tough to prove but my point it out now means it becomes part of my scummeta that I can't use as much next time.
Post by: Caz on March 10, 2021, 01:29:59 pm
After two games in a row of being burned by survivor claims I'm never trusting them again.
and we come full circle to the reason why survivor claims get insta-lynched.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 01:31:42 pm
This... yeah. We make our own monsters.After two games in a row of being burned by survivor claims I'm never trusting them again.
and we come full circle to the reason why survivor claims get insta-lynched.
Post by: Vector on March 10, 2021, 01:32:43 pm
I guess that I have learned:
1. Jim will absolutely screw people just because
2. I should probably have tunneled Web harder D1
3. Agreed, the correct D1 lynch is the claimed survivor. Hitting guaranteed third party is much better than the like 15% chance of actually hitting the scumteam.
Post by: Vector on March 10, 2021, 01:33:41 pm
As a reader after I was dead, I did find it very puzzling how everyone just accepted that Web had cleared Vector, as if Vector needed clearing or that that was something he could do or would have made sense for him to do if he could do. What was I missing? Also ICT and Vector had contradicting claims but both were town, what was the misunderstanding?Well... I did rely on my claiming Vector to passively clear myself, and sort of lent my own towncred on them as well. It was sort of like an investment scheme, where we both look more Town by doing so, and I chain my own alignment clearing on them. It's tough to prove but my point it out now means it becomes part of my scummeta that I can't use as much next time.
Don't worry, I already cottoned on >_>
Post by: Persus13 on March 10, 2021, 01:34:01 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 01:37:18 pm
I considered a converted 4mask, which would have actually give town a chance, except they had a kill too rip. Can converts stop having kills too Meph?? It happens so often in mafia wins.
By the way Meph this is officially your longest game on Bay12.
Yeah, I think Converts should probably lose thier kills. It's just too much of a power swing to let them keep that.
I'd already made that decision for the other conversion types, but for Dark Magus I wasn't sure if it was too bad since a 2-person scum team is still pretty weak.
Turns out to have been a bit OP anyway.
Lesson learned.
And, yeah, we're going to have lots of new stuff next time I run a Supernatural. I've had ideas building up on my own for a bit and Web just added a ton. So I have lots to work with.
Oh, and for the record for everyone, the Demon kill is just listed in my set-up as "Brutal". It doesn't have to be messy.
Post by: Persus13 on March 10, 2021, 01:42:56 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:44:01 pm
Also the game flavor was great as always. Its why I keep coming back to these.Seconded, the flavor was excellent. Also, Meph apparently takes requests (within reason), so that's good to know for the future.
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 10, 2021, 01:45:38 pm
Luckyowl absolutely destroyed me on Night 1 with his reply to my deal and 110% didn't deserve what I did to him.
There were things I wanted to try as Devil that I didn't get the opportunity to try out. I asked Meph if I could conditionally give information if people accepted or refused my deal, and he said yes, so my plan was to make people buy my information.
Devil seems like it would have been a difficult role to win with even if I hadn't been lynched and even if I tried to sell information. I can't make people accept so I somehow need to live long enough to not die and have people accept deals.
1. Jim will absolutely screw people just because
You guys CFDed me on Day 2 when I wasn't around.
That was obnoxious.
Stop doing that.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 01:51:01 pm
Honestly the third parties in general could probably use a shake-up just as badly, if not more so, than the wolf teams.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 01:52:52 pm
Supernatural is supposed to be my test-bed for neat ideas that can be broken by everyone knowing how they work. So I really ought to be mixing stuff up and either majorly changing or phasing out the various 3rd parties and whatnot over time.
Even some town roles, like Priest, really need to be either reworked or phased out a bit. Too much meta-gaming goes on with them right now.
But I do have plans.
Post by: Vector on March 10, 2021, 01:56:31 pm
Quote
If there was a deadchat Vector would be grumping in it.
aside,
1. Notable Games Archive?
2. I will say that even though other players seemed to be very familiar with this format, this was very whackadoo for me compared to normal mafia, in an enjoyable way. I haven't been so sure that I was winning and actually being curbstomped in ... feels like forever.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 02:02:30 pm
You guys CFDed me on Day 2 when I wasn't around.Being the other party I'm okay with you being lynched instead.
That was obnoxious.
Stop doing that.
That being said, Caz/Juicebox was town, meaning that CFDs have a WHOPPING 0% hit rate on scum so far. What an incredible strategy and town play. Fuck CFDs.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 02:06:36 pm
The closest to a "wolf wagon" all game was when you followed Lucky onto webadict.
The wagons that were CFD'd away from were also town.
Post by: notquitethere on March 10, 2021, 02:09:12 pm
You guys CFDed me on Day 2 when I wasn't around.It was maybe obnoxious but you made one of the classic blunders: never go up against an NQT when death is on the line. That third wagon vote on me was a misstep.
Post by: Caz on March 10, 2021, 02:10:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 02:11:49 pm
There's no reasoning to them. One player (who could be scum like FoU saving Leaf in BYOR15) just goes "hey let's lynch this player instead" when statistically I think that has an even worse hit chance than GUESSING RANDOMLY which at least wouldn't include scum biasly not picking their buddies.
BYOR15 NQT and Super10 Juicebox both got treated unfairly because they acted rashly from getting CFD'd on like any player would!!
What does CFD stand for?Complete Failure Demonstration
Post by: notquitethere on March 10, 2021, 02:29:09 pm
The wild frenzy on Juice was absolutely my doing:
30 minutes to go... so Juicebox!
I didn't have enough compelling evidence to lynch him over anyone else other than the fact he hadn't been active. If I'd have done nothing Lucky would have died, which would have probably been for the best to avoid the painful Priest uncertainty.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 02:33:41 pm
If I'd have done nothing Lucky would have died, which would have probably been for the best to avoid the painful Priest uncertainty.Agreed. No Lucky after D1 would have been...different.
Post by: Caz on March 10, 2021, 02:37:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 02:40:13 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2021, 02:42:04 pm
Did Caz get Tric's dreams twice in a row? That's the only possibility for N1 and N2 since everybody else had actions or was dead. That's so unlucky...Icy received nothing on N2 but yeah, super unlucky.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 10, 2021, 02:42:26 pm
Is Lucky more of an asset to scum when they are scum or when they are town?Lucky was the only player that "pushed" a case on scum, Webadict.
And by push I mean lurked a lot then voted them for completely reasonable reasons (and ones he should have pursued further) then lurked some more.
His Day 1 plan on lynching Web to check and then reviving him...hoo boy if we actually listened.
Post by: notquitethere on March 10, 2021, 02:49:59 pm
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 02:51:20 pm
If Luckyowl had been elimmed D1, I would probably have been elimmed D3 or D4. I just don't see how Toaster doesn't inspect me eventually in that scenario.If I'd have done nothing Lucky would have died, which would have probably been for the best to avoid the painful Priest uncertainty.Agreed. No Lucky after D1 would have been...different.
I'm actually sure that a lot of how we won was pure luck at how ridiculous things went in this game.
1. I converted the SK claimed Survivor, who was playing so Town that they were safe from being NKed or being elimmed. Had I not, I would have 99% lost.
2. Luckyowl revived another SK, butting both them and Blue on the chopping block. That basically kept me alive until D4, and kept people busy on them.
3. Jim lied about Luckyowl as well.
4. You protected me instead of NQT.
There were simply so many lucky factors that happened that I truly think would have resulted in my loss any other way.
Okay, well,I put on my S game (for scum) for this. Also because I owed you for that 3p defeat :PQuoteIf there was a deadchat Vector would be grumping in it.
aside,
1. Notable Games Archive?
2. I will say that even though other players seemed to be very familiar with this format, this was very whackadoo for me compared to normal mafia, in an enjoyable way. I haven't been so sure that I was winning and actually being curbstomped in ... feels like forever.
Agreed.I actually think some changes to the Town roles to have LESS uniquely defined ones would be better. Werebear, Guard, and Knight could be combined. Priest, Exorcist, and Wizard could be combined. Just start combining them until they have a unique theme. Like, Priests are all about HEALING MAGICKS, and then they could resurrect, they could cure the sick, heal the wounded, protect against foul spirits. A Knight is all about WEAPONS and could be battle-scarred and ready to kill, they could have one last arrow to use, they could protect themselves or others, they could even lend out their sword to a trusted confidante. Doing all these helps make the game unguessable, because if someone claims a Knight, all you know is that their power relates to their abilities with a weapon. The many definitions available really give them only one real role now, but a Witch could already be in a Coven, or they could create a NEW Coven, or they could make potions to give away, or they could summon their own familiar.
Supernatural is supposed to be my test-bed for neat ideas that can be broken by everyone knowing how they work. So I really ought to be mixing stuff up and either majorly changing or phasing out the various 3rd parties and whatnot over time.
Even some town roles, like Priest, really need to be either reworked or phased out a bit. Too much meta-gaming goes on with them right now.
But I do have plans.
Town is too specialized in their descriptions. Simply boil them down to like 12 different ones with a theme like Healing, Secrets, Weapons, Knowledge, etc.
I didn't have a good defense against Lucky's plan.Is Lucky more of an asset to scum when they are scum or when they are town?Lucky was the only player that "pushed" a case on scum, Webadict.
And by push I mean lurked a lot then voted them for completely reasonable reasons (and ones he should have pursued further) then lurked some more.
His Day 1 plan on lynching Web to check and then reviving him...hoo boy if we actually listened.
Post by: Toaster on March 10, 2021, 02:55:46 pm
Yes I lied. Doing that and seeing the resulting chaos was the most fun I've ever had losing though.
Luckyowl absolutely destroyed me on Night 1 with his reply to my deal and 110% didn't deserve what I did to him.
I was wrong on that take, certainly. I suppose- in flavor- trusting a Devil was a big mistake. I do think Warlocks who reach out to devils should absolutely 100% be able to get a Deal from them.
Even some town roles, like Priest, really need to be either reworked or phased out a bit. Too much meta-gaming goes on with them right now.
Nobody trusts revives, so why not split the difference?
Give a role that can res a player with guaranteed sanity but (obviously in thread) as a ghost who cannot act but can talk at will. Maybe give them a vote based on balance; could go either way.
Are you (or anyone, really) familiar with Blood on the Clocktower (https://bloodontheclocktower.com/)? It's a mafia/werewolf game-in-a-box with a pile of roles. One twist they have is all dead players can still talk and even still have a vote they can use once throughout the game. (BotC votes are all at once at day end). Given its demon theming it's a source of new ideas and flavor.
I actually think some changes to the Town roles to have LESS uniquely defined ones would be better. Werebear, Guard, and Knight could be combined. Priest, Exorcist, and Wizard could be combined. Just start combining them until they have a unique theme. Like, Priests are all about HEALING MAGICKS, and then they could resurrect, they could cure the sick, heal the wounded, protect against foul spirits. A Knight is all about WEAPONS and could be battle-scarred and ready to kill, they could have one last arrow to use, they could protect themselves or others, they could even lend out their sword to a trusted confidante. Doing all these helps make the game unguessable, because if someone claims a Knight, all you know is that their power relates to their abilities with a weapon. The many definitions available really give them only one real role now, but a Witch could already be in a Coven, or they could create a NEW Coven, or they could make potions to give away, or they could summon their own familiar.
Take a page from the Paranormal playbook from Guards and give roles variants. It's already slightly in place here with Witches (coven vs... whatever the one that places the one shot permaward is called)
I would have checked 4mask pretty soon as well.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 03:54:56 pm
It's be pretty easy to do something broader with that. I'll have to think about it.
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 04:02:47 pm
Post by: Secretdorf on March 10, 2021, 09:45:51 pm
Post by: webadict on March 10, 2021, 09:55:29 pm
What does CFD stand for?Since nobody answered your question properly, it stands for Chinese Fire Drill.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 10, 2021, 11:00:49 pm
I would be willing to tag-team the next Supernatural with some, er, balance tweaks if you'd like.
That might be fun. We'll have to see how things are once I do another one.
Great flavour, especially the ending one.
Glad you liked it!
Post by: Vector on March 11, 2021, 02:26:28 am
Post by: Caz on March 11, 2021, 04:01:42 am
What does CFD stand for?Since nobody answered your question properly, it stands for Chinese Fire Drill.
I thought this was another joke until I googled it. I'm learning things now.
(https://i.imgur.com/UYbi5vZ.png)
Post by: Vector on March 11, 2021, 01:12:03 pm
Anyway, yeah, knowledge is power ...
Post by: Luckyowl on March 11, 2021, 06:11:10 pm
I honestly wanted to get lynched eariler because it would've easily make Web or ToonyMan scummy. My intuition told me that Web was the mafia when he tried to defend Vector. I'm not sure why no one saw that. But this is what I mean when town should outguess the mafia. Anyone who is trying to be perfect town is scummy. A real town player is unsure and are more likely delve into wild theories or make little mistakes here and there.
Post by: webadict on March 11, 2021, 06:21:15 pm
To be honest. I just hadn't have enough time to be active and the time I do have for myself I usually be with my people or playing games. So I am sorry, if my lack of activity seemed scummy. But life, man.It's not always about what you feel is right. It's about what you can convince others about what is right. In that way, Mafia is a game about the perception of perceptions. Whose perceptions are fundamentally flawed because they are Mafia, and who can you get to perceive them as Mafia as well? If you can't convince people you're right, then it doesn't really matter if you are or aren't.
I honestly wanted to get lynched eariler because it would've easily make Web or ToonyMan scummy. My intuition told me that Web was the mafia when he tried to defend Vector. I'm not sure why no one saw that. But this is what I mean when town should outguess the mafia. Anyone who is trying to be perfect town is scummy. A real town player is unsure and are more likely delve into wild theories or make little mistakes here and there.
Post by: ToonyMan on March 11, 2021, 06:50:21 pm
My intuition told me that Web was the mafia when he tried to defend Vector. I'm not sure why no one saw that.Then post saying that and vote him!! I can't agree with someone who isn't pushing any cases.
You felt extremely town to me at the end of Day 2 because you naturally felt I was misguided town while Webadict was playing cool and relaxed, this is what "reads" are and it's important to state them. During the course of a game I recommend looking at each player and thinking "How would they post if they were mafia? As town? Is what they're saying making me feel indicative of that? Why?" After doing this for each player in the game, post your thoughts in the thread.
Like-minded players will probably share similar feelings, and that can be a sign that you're both town. On the other hand if somebody is being too friendly with you that means they don't show any distrust of you, which is suspicious.
My first, and biggest, personal failing was trusting 4maskwolf's survivor claim wholeheartedly on Day 1. I did not suspect him of being mafia at all, but I should have considered a malicious third-party, especially after MVM2 fucked me over at the end with Secretdorf. 4maskwolf being the top poster and always active in the thread will skew my perspective of a player as pro-town and trying to be helpful. This is true for Webadict as well, probably the second most active poster after me.
My second personal failing was doubting you, Lucky, again on Day 3, after Jim lied to Vector about you taking their devil deal, when I should have disregarded anything a player that has already lost would say. It's not even the same as if Jim was mafia, Jim was a solo third-party with no obligation to tell the truth or lie. His remarks should have been fully disregarded and ignored. Instead I soaked up the propaganda and reverted my trust of Lucky that was built at the end of Day 2. If Webadict was town this wouldn't have been fatal, but they weren't, and it truly cost town the game.
Like I said myself on Day 3:
Lucky, if you're town this is the most important day of your life.
You need to explain to me why you're town and who is scum.
Who is the Dark Magus?
Who is the convert?
Where is the second kill coming from?
If this is all a ploy to deceive town and cause us to mislynch you I don't think we can recover from it.
If you are playing to town's wincon you will take this seriously and answer me.
Post by: Luckyowl on March 11, 2021, 06:53:54 pm
To be honest. I just hadn't have enough time to be active and the time I do have for myself I usually be with my people or playing games. So I am sorry, if my lack of activity seemed scummy. But life, man.It's not always about what you feel is right. It's about what you can convince others about what is right. In that way, Mafia is a game about the perception of perceptions. Whose perceptions are fundamentally flawed because they are Mafia, and who can you get to perceive them as Mafia as well? If you can't convince people you're right, then it doesn't really matter if you are or aren't.
I honestly wanted to get lynched eariler because it would've easily make Web or ToonyMan scummy. My intuition told me that Web was the mafia when he tried to defend Vector. I'm not sure why no one saw that. But this is what I mean when town should outguess the mafia. Anyone who is trying to be perfect town is scummy. A real town player is unsure and are more likely delve into wild theories or make little mistakes here and there.
Yeah, you're right on that. I think it's my unwillingness to build massive cased as those can be drainning to do. Instead I prefer to give my opinion on the game. But the problem with that is what you said. It's not convincing. At the end. You were able to get people to overlook your odd defensive case on why Vector is town no matter what because I was too lazy to go in depth on why it looked so scummy. How your whole case against me throughout the game felt force and ridiclous. Honestly the best move was too lynch me on day 1. So I wouldn't have brought back a demon and it would've made you and ToonyMan look scummy.
Post by: Mephansteras on March 11, 2021, 07:55:01 pm
So stuff like:
Town Read
Player A : reason
Player B : reason
Player C : reason
Null Read
Player D : reason
Player E : reason
Scum Read
Player F : reason
Player G : reason
Player H : reason + Reason you're voting them
Keep this list in like a notepad text file on your computer. Updated it as you think of things. Use it to help you galvanize your thoughts. Keep it open while you're reading the thread and add your notes to it or move people around as you go through the game. Don't leave it all for a giant chunk of work that's hard to do all at once.
Reasons can be a simple as 'gut feeling' or 'buddied so and so' or whatever. They don't have to be deep and thought out. They can be, and that's good, and when someone calls you on a read you can expand on it.
Basically, I'm saying chunk up the work to make it easier on yourself to be a good player.
This is good practice no matter what side you're on or what role you have and it'll make the game better for you and everyone else who is playing.
Post by: webadict on March 11, 2021, 08:40:10 pm
Post by: Toaster on March 11, 2021, 09:39:17 pm
Making notes is a good idea though and I should probably do that...
Post by: webadict on March 11, 2021, 09:47:25 pm
If you can only read a couple people, then stick with that, but in those cases, I highly recommend bandwagoning! Give some feelings on what you can and then try to jump on someone else's case if you feel it's good enough!
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 11, 2021, 10:07:44 pm
There's a cheat you can use to get around making massive, tiring cases on people.To be honest. I just hadn't have enough time to be active and the time I do have for myself I usually be with my people or playing games. So I am sorry, if my lack of activity seemed scummy. But life, man.It's not always about what you feel is right. It's about what you can convince others about what is right. In that way, Mafia is a game about the perception of perceptions. Whose perceptions are fundamentally flawed because they are Mafia, and who can you get to perceive them as Mafia as well? If you can't convince people you're right, then it doesn't really matter if you are or aren't.
I honestly wanted to get lynched eariler because it would've easily make Web or ToonyMan scummy. My intuition told me that Web was the mafia when he tried to defend Vector. I'm not sure why no one saw that. But this is what I mean when town should outguess the mafia. Anyone who is trying to be perfect town is scummy. A real town player is unsure and are more likely delve into wild theories or make little mistakes here and there.
Yeah, you're right on that. I think it's my unwillingness to build massive cased as those can be drainning to do. Instead I prefer to give my opinion on the game. But the problem with that is what you said. It's not convincing. At the end. You were able to get people to overlook your odd defensive case on why Vector is town no matter what because I was too lazy to go in depth on why it looked so scummy. How your whole case against me throughout the game felt force and ridiclous. Honestly the best move was too lynch me on day 1. So I wouldn't have brought back a demon and it would've made you and ToonyMan look scummy.
Personally address your towncore. Make a smaller, concise case and directly ask people you think are townie to engage with it. Look at what NQT did at EoD 1 in BYOR 15. There simply wasn't enough Leafsnail content to build some kind of airtight, unbreakable case on him, but NQT still thought he was wolfy, so what did he do? He started talking to people directly. If you were present in the thread, he would address you directly to plead his case to you. And it worked, too, it created a wagon big enough the wolves started getting nervous. By directly addressing people, you can turn a general case that people will walk past and ignore into a personal case they're directly involved in.
It's a useful trick for wolves, too, even if the only purpose of doing it is to screw with Toonyman for no practical value.
Post by: Vector on March 11, 2021, 10:13:41 pm
Anyway, mafia-wise I try to pick a few targets who it would be particularly helpful for the town to have new information on. I guess what doesn't work very well about this is that, for example, I work really hard to build a case or anti-case on someone and then they get NKed.
Probably I should try to change the way I play so that my methods are better suited to the New, Old Vec . . .
Post by: webadict on March 11, 2021, 10:31:44 pm
@Vector: Priorities! You gotta do that math thing first, so don't sweat it. I think 4maskwolf is right here. If you can use the NQT method to bring people into focus, you're doing more for the Town than if you focus on building a case on someone.
Like, for example, when you were building a case D4, I knew you were going to post things, so... I might have Shortened the Day just in case it was bad for me :P. But, if you had popped in with a quick note that said "Hey, webadict is kinda scummy." and left it at that? Well, that would have made it hard for me to Shorten without acknowledging that statement! Old Vector likes to make huge cases that really nail points home. But, I think it can be inefficient, too.
Maybe the shorter and sweet stuff is what really captures attentions! I think your perception is really good, so worry less about explaining it, and more about getting a quick note about what it is. If people need explanations, they can wait for them!
Post by: Vector on March 11, 2021, 11:32:05 pm