Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => General Discussion => Topic started by: methylatedspirit on March 26, 2021, 11:44:54 am

Title: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: methylatedspirit on March 26, 2021, 11:44:54 am
You know the Great Disorder, which causes post links in threads where greatorder posted (and had deleted a while ago) to be misaligned forwards by some thread-dependent amount? I just realized that pages, despite being indexed by post number, are not affected by this glitch. I lack the knowledge to understand why SMF behaves like this, but I think it's neat to point out.

This is a link pointing to page 10369 (at 15 posts per page) of the WTF thread.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68850.155520

This is a link that is supposed to point to the 155520th reply (10369 × 15 - 15, assuming 15 PPP) of the WTF thread. Instead, it launches you straight to the next page (as of this writing). Sorry MrRoboto, I'll be using your post as a test subject throughout. I'll replace it if you don't want me to use it.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68850.msg8262806#msg8262806

Observe the ends of the URLs. The one that you get for a page is indexed relative to the current total number of posts. The one for a post is indexed relative to something else. I have no clue what it means, but it sure as hell is larger. Global post counter? If so, there are a lot of posts I don't see, since the forum itself shows 4.8 million posts, and that number is 8.3 million.

If I run with the hypothesis that the 8.3 million figure is a sequential index of every post in chronological order, regardless of deletions or hidings, it's even more odd that the Great Disorder affects only quote links.


There's a possible workaround here by using the page link formatting instead of the quote format. Notice how a typical quote is formatted.
Code: [Select]
[quote author=MrRoboto75 link=topic=68850.msg8262806#msg8262806 date=1616638054]
[/quote]

It turns out that the link= flag is very easy to work with. The link it generates is (assuming there isn't a different website specified?) "bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?", and then after that, it's concatenated with whatever is after the link= flag.  I'm sure you can play some very funny tricks with that.

My workaround involves replacing the msg-followed-by-numbers thing with the post number, just like how page links are formatted. Just replace it with the trailing number of the URL of the page you found the post on. In my example, this would be
Code: [Select]
[quote author=MrRoboto75 link=topic=68850.155520 date=1616638054]
[/quote]

And if I release it from its [code] cage, it produces:
Quote from: MrRoboto75 on March 24, 2021, 09:07:34 pm

Which would get you at least within the vicinity of the intended post, rather than being flung forwards a hundred pages like you would normally.

I don't think it's a very practical workaround, but I suppose if there's a particular need for vaguely-accurate quote linking within the subset of affected threads...
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Caz on March 26, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
Just make threads that they didn't post in?

How come they got deleted anyway? I'm pretty sure if you get banned your account is still there and you just can't post anymore. :S
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: TamerVirus on March 26, 2021, 01:25:16 pm
Quote from: Caz on March 26, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
Just make threads that they didn't post in?
We are not remaking the mega-sized feel threads. It just ain't happening.

Quote from: Caz on March 26, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
How come they got deleted anyway?
Personal embarrassment over old forum posts iirc. Because we all know employers and federal agencies are mining this specific forum for material to use against us in the upcoming tribunals
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: MrRoboto75 on March 26, 2021, 01:27:28 pm
Quote from: TamerVirus on March 26, 2021, 01:25:16 pm
Because we all know employers and federal agencies are mining this specific forum for material to use against us in the upcoming tribunals

Shit, he's on to me
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: voliol on March 26, 2021, 02:29:49 pm
Wait, what about us non-americans? Is it the CIA then, or our domestic intelligence agencies spying on us for the crimes we commit on the forum?

Interesting post either way.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: heydude6 on March 26, 2021, 05:52:01 pm
NSA mines our data regardless of whether we're in America or not.

It's for national security you see. If a European says something like "America is a joke of a country", that could secretly be a veiled threat and they may be planning a coup. They need this info so they can determine whether such people need to be abducted and taken to Guantanamo Bay for further questioning.

Spoiler: Serious Talk (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: dragdeler on March 26, 2021, 06:07:37 pm
Been a while since snowden etc but afaik secret services often solicit the services of foreign secret services whenever the law hinders them from engaging domestic targets. The big 5 are a very strong bond, so lemme think, USA, UK, australia, new zealand and... :/ ... ireland? Fuck it's probably something obvious. Nato is also a somewhat strong bond. And for some reason the mossad is buddy buddy with all the west, so presumably saudia arabia's is too... Like that time a car from the mossad was supposed to accompany a submarine out of a river towards the sea in germany, and they got stuck in the mud, and the local firemen just helped them out or something along those lines, it's been a while.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: TamerVirus on March 26, 2021, 06:09:30 pm
No Ireland
Yes Canada
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: dragdeler on March 26, 2021, 06:10:13 pm
aah fuck, duh  ::) :) but ty
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: King Zultan on March 27, 2021, 05:10:46 am
It's nice to sit and have a think every now and then.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Caz on March 27, 2021, 02:11:14 pm
Quote from: King Zultan on March 27, 2021, 05:10:46 am
It's nice to sit and have a think every now and then.

sounds dangerous
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Great Order on March 27, 2021, 02:54:10 pm
Quote from: Caz on March 26, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
Just make threads that they didn't post in?

How come they got deleted anyway? I'm pretty sure if you get banned your account is still there and you just can't post anymore. :S
Had some cringy and some insensitive stuff from when I was younger and significantly less socially educated. I didn't want that stuff associated with me for two reasons:

1) I just don't want to be reminded of that stuff

2) I use this handle elsewhere, including games I play with people I know IRL. I don't want them stumbling upon some horrifyingly cringy shit I posted in 2011 because I'm easily embarrassed and have a crippling fear of social rejection (that I need to talk about with a professional, honestly. I think it's part of some form of social anxiety. Pretty sure I know why it developed in the first place at least)

I didn't know it'd make the forums explode, but I should have guessed given the software was out of date when I joined up on my old account.
EDIT: Also if any employer managed to get a hand on it (however they would), it's not something I'd like them to be able to witness.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: methylatedspirit on March 27, 2021, 05:21:50 pm
And that's why I always use different handles for every single thing I sign up to. I try to compartmentalize each account, making sure not to publicly refer to any other handles on anything else. Wouldn't stop a determined person, but it does at least prevent the classical search-engine attack.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Caz on March 27, 2021, 06:17:03 pm
Quote from: methylatedspirit on March 27, 2021, 05:21:50 pm
And that's why I always use different handles for every single thing I sign up to. I try to compartmentalize each account, making sure not to publicly refer to any other handles on anything else. Wouldn't stop a determined person, but it does at least prevent the classical search-engine attack.

^

don't dox yourself is the plan.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Egan_BW on March 27, 2021, 06:49:48 pm
What, are you saying that my username shouldn't be my first name followed by the initials of my last name when as far as I can tell I'm the only person with my last name? Nonsense.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Iduno on March 27, 2021, 07:11:00 pm
Quote from: Great Order on March 27, 2021, 02:54:10 pm
I didn't know it'd make the forums explode, but I should have guessed given the software was out of date when I joined up on my old account.

Yeah, nobody thinks you or Toady expected anything to come of it.
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: Loud Whispers on March 28, 2021, 03:07:13 pm
Gotta say the Great Disorder is a cute name for this archival calamity
Title: Re: A think about the Great Disorder
Post by: heydude6 on March 28, 2021, 03:11:28 pm
The dates are still accurate. You can use those to play a game of hot and cold until you eventually find the post. It should also be possible create a script that could do that too.