Fallacy, shooting from the hip, which candidate would you pick?Flipping a coin? When did you become Luckyowl?
BluarianKnight, same question.
My own answer: I have no information yet whatsoever about the candidates, but flipping a coin gives me Caz.
I am the Town candidate. I think.This air of uncertainty isn't massively reassuring!
Flipping a coin? When did you become Luckyowl?Well, actually I took odds/evens from a dice I had on my desk as there wasn't a coin to hand. Obviously I'm not going to base my final voting decision on a flip but I thought it fair the other electors have an answer from me if I'm asking that question.
My own answer: I have no information yet whatsoever about the candidates, but flipping a coin gives me Caz.
I am the Town candidate. I think. But I'd say that no matter what. You should consider voting for me and then actually do it, because that is the correct decision.
True, but the role PMs from TricMagic are always less detailed for the Town players, and the green text was my assumption when I skimmed that. I went back and confirmed that "sources" say that Caz is working with someone called Ellif.I am the Town candidate. I think.This air of uncertainty isn't massively reassuring!
Au contrare. Perhaps you understand my own reluctance to be on the stage by your very own words, no? I am most reluctant to be on this stage for the very reason you point out. I am quite the suspicious person. I have refused, to date, to release my tax returns because they are under audit, and I have no plan of doing so in the future. But, I am completely forthright about this fact, and I'd never lie to you, or anyone else for that matter, about these details. There's nothing more stable about me than my willingness to go counter to the established precedent, and that's what makes me a great ruler.I am the Town candidate. I think. But I'd say that no matter what. You should consider voting for me and then actually do it, because that is the correct decision.
Come on, really?
Do you really want to live in a world ruled by Webadict? Even if he WAS town he'd probably end up nking you all for the fun of it. Choose Caz-brand stability. There can be no substitute!
Caz, what is the name of webadict's helper?
Also, I don't use outside help.
Why would you need their input? Neither of us can vote, and I am fully aware I am Town. Their input is completely irrelevant on that fact. However, I do agree that it is likely NQT being the mole. The coin thing is sort of a big tip-off.Also, I don't use outside help.
I guess a lurker would suit your friendship, then.
I want to get some input from FoU and Blu.
Ahaha you can't both think I'm the mole. I'm not the mole. I'm just the only voter who has posted yet.Why not? It feels in character for you. Your goal was to signal to Caz that you were the mole. You even did the flavor on coins.
Fallacy, shooting from the hip, which candidate would you pick?
BluarianKnight, same question.
My own answer: I have no information yet whatsoever about the candidates, but flipping a coin gives me Caz.
Why would you need their input? Neither of us can vote, and I am fully aware I am Town. Their input is completely irrelevant on that fact. However, I do agree that it is likely NQT being the mole. The coin thing is sort of a big tip-off.Also, I don't use outside help.
I guess a lurker would suit your friendship, then.
I want to get some input from FoU and Blu.
town!Web would be far more aggressive than this, btw.... I was literally running outside? I didn't have time to make good posts.
You don't want their input? Is that because their comments on you will show that they have inside information?Their input is unnecessary to find scum. YOU are scum. Their input cannot change our minds. It is literally up to both of us to convince them we are Town. I just don't have to lie about it.
As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.
Their input is unnecessary to find scum. YOU are scum. Their input cannot change our minds. It is literally up to both of us to convince them we are Town. I just don't have to lie about it.
This is lies. My PM contained no information about coins, NQT was the one that brought it up as a Lucky reference.That's weird.
Why not? It feels in character for you. Your goal was to signal to Caz that you were the mole. You even did the flavor on coins.I realised now I misread the OP. I had assumed the evil candidate would know who their traitor was.
Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.Ahaha what, no. If that was the case then why would I not have just said "I rolled a dice" to begin with? I used a dice because that's what I have on my desk. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178323.msg8265716#msg8265716)
Me not knowing about the coins makes me a servant of the Eilif? How does that even work out?Why would it matter if your PM had no information about the coins? If you're Town, then you'd assume that I knew about the coins because I'm scum. But you said I lied about the coins.
All this coin stuff is a story you made up.Maybe it's more elegantly pointed that I know I lied about the coins for a traitor country, but if you were Town, how would you know about that? Why would it even matter? If I'm the traitor, then it's just how the other country works, and I'd have inside knowledge.
The only "security briefing" (no, I didn't get one) info I have is that the traitor belongs to the faction that killed the former President Fia Ma, and that one of the people here is secretly their ally.
That's okay. I actually made up the whole thing because I wanted Caz to say the coin thing was a lie so I could prove to you that I'm the only legitimate person here who wants Fortree to prosper and won't sell us out to Ellif.Why not? It feels in character for you. Your goal was to signal to Caz that you were the mole. You even did the flavor on coins.I realised now I misread the OP. I had assumed the evil candidate would know who their traitor was.
Why not? It feels in character for you. Your goal was to signal to Caz that you were the mole. You even did the flavor on coins.I realised now I misread the OP. I had assumed the evil candidate would know who their traitor was.Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.Ahaha what, no. If that was the case then why would I not have just said "I rolled a dice" to begin with? I used a dice because that's what I have on my desk. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178323.msg8265716#msg8265716)
Blu, what do you think about this coin business and the flavor claims?
The point was this: How would you know I lied about the coins from the literal enemy of Fortree if you weren't being backed by Ellif?
Maybe it's more elegantly pointed that I know I lied about the coins for a traitor country, but if you were Town, how would you know about that? Why would it even matter? If I'm the traitor, then it's just how the other country works, and I'd have inside knowledge.
But you said it's a lie. Because you KNOW that's not how they back traitors.
Because you are a traitor.
You have enough information to call it a lie. Where did that come from? Because I have given an adequate explanation of where it came from: You know there aren't coins because you are the Traitor.
My vote's still on Web. for now. I need to see Caz do something - prove, poke, prod. Actually dig in - it seems only NQT is doing that isofar, and doing it against Web - which seems to me to be buddying, but I'm not sure.
How do you know it's made up? If you aren't the traitor, you wouldn't know if it's made up. Simple as that.You have enough information to call it a lie. Where did that come from? Because I have given an adequate explanation of where it came from: You know there aren't coins because you are the Traitor.
I know you're lying because it's made up. You can't have that information because you aren't the loyal contender. Really don't know how I can make this clearer.
How do you know it's made up? If you aren't the traitor, you wouldn't know if it's made up. Simple as that.
I proved you have information you shouldn't have.
Fallacy, shooting from the hip, which candidate would you pick?Caz, for being more blunt and straightforwards.
Haha. Would you like to point out which part of my scheme was elaborate?Fallacy, shooting from the hip, which candidate would you pick?Caz, for being more blunt and straightforwards.
I'm definitely inclined to believe them, more. Web's spouting nonsense about coins, but really, there's no validity there. If Caz is the town candidate, then they're fully justified in assuming the other one is lying - and webadict would have to know this.
The fact that webadict is choosing to ignore that fact and use some elaborate flavor scheme makes me think Caz is the town candidate.
Haha. Would you like to point out which part of my scheme was elaborate?I genuinely cannot parse what you are even trying to do.
That's weird. You're usually used to schemes. Are you not for this one because it implicates Caz?Haha. Would you like to point out which part of my scheme was elaborate?I genuinely cannot parse what you are even trying to do.
I can only think he was trying to WIFOM me into voting for him (a traitor Web would act sensibly in this situation therefore this is town!Web) but I'm not actually that dumb.?
Explain which part of the Town role PM would let them have access to the coins aspect of the Scum role? It doesn't matter if I'm lying.If it's literally just flavor, then it could be mentioned at any point in the town role PM. I don't think your argument proves anything, wuba.
But, this should prove that FoU is Town by virtue of not hammering.... but wuba, there's no hammers in this game.
... Yes? That's my point exactly.Explain which part of the Town role PM would let them have access to the coins aspect of the Scum role? It doesn't matter if I'm lying.If it's literally just flavor, then it could be mentioned at any point in the town role PM. I don't think your argument proves anything, wuba.
Running a 5p game without hammers is bizarre.But, this should prove that FoU is Town by virtue of not hammering.... but wuba, there's no hammers in this game.
If you're not a traitor, you should be arguing that no coin with your fingerprints exists.
You argued that no coinS exist.
So, let's make this one easy for you Fallacy...
A: If Caz was Town and it was mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued the coins don't exist.
B: If Caz was Town and it wasn't mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued that the coins don't exist.
C: If Caz was Scum and it was mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued the coins don't exist.
D: If Caz was Scum and it wasn't mentioned in their role PM: Caz would argue the coins don't exist.
A doesn't matter at this point.
B would have argued that I'm lying about having a coin with Caz's fingerprints on it. This Caz has no idea what Ellif is like, BECAUSE I HAVE THE TOWN PM AND IT LITERALLY ONLY SAYS THAT ELLIF IS BACKING THE OTHER CANDIDATE. If Caz had brought that up, I'd question the authenticity of such a coin, NOT whether those coins are a real thing or not.
C would have literally implicated NQT as the ally. This would have been a perfect outcome for me as well because Caz would be fighting against someone who revealed information that they didn't.
D would have known for a fact that Ellif doesn't have coins and that no coin with Caz's fingerprints exist.
Right. You have the scum role PM, so that's why you knew no coins existed. That's exactly what I'm saying.If you're not a traitor, you should be arguing that no coin with your fingerprints exists.
You argued that no coinS exist.
Because you obviously made it up just because NQT made a comment about coin flipping. I dunno how much flavour you got in your PM but mine had nowhere near that level of detail. Yeah maybe I'm not as good at making up stories as you are, but that doesn't mean I'm not telling the truth.
This is NQT level. The coins don't exist because you are lying about having secret information because you AREN'T THAT ROLE.Right. I'm not the traitor. Thank you for admitting that.
But, this should prove that FoU is Town by virtue of not hammering. That's good! That means that NQT was in fact the traitor the whole time.Sadly, that presumes Hammers exist. The game lasts 72 hours,
Neat!
Running a 5p game without hammers is bizarre.But, this should prove that FoU is Town by virtue of not hammering.... but wuba, there's no hammers in this game.
Right. You have the scum role PM, so that's why you knew no coins existed. That's exactly what I'm saying.If Caz had the town role PM, they'd also argue that no coins exist, simply because you, who they know is scum, is saying that they do exist.
Running a 5p game without hammers is bizarre.If there was a hammer it'd be mentioned in the opening post or game start post.
Caz refuses to take risks because they don't want to potentially look scummy.This is, technically speaking, an entirely valid strategy for town in this game mode. Also, your second sentence is just untrue - they are actively participating.
Literally the epitome of trying to lurk their way to victory.
"Let's hear what everyone eelse thinks because I can't come up with evidence on my own."
Caz refuses to take risks because they don't want to potentially look scummy.
Literally the epitome of trying to lurk their way to victory.
"Let's hear what everyone eelse thinks because I can't come up with evidence on my own."
Find where my behavior matches my scumtells. I'll wait.
town!Web would be far more aggressive than this, btw.This is their only evidence so far. You want to tell me that's being involved in the game? I am just severely disappointed if you actually think that.
I'm not lurking. It's past midnight here and I've posted as much as you. Just bc I'm not coming up with wild theories then it means I must be scum?No. You're scum because I'm town. You literally cannot NOT be scum. That's not a possibility. That isn't even a debate.
I'm pretty sure that Blu is the traitor ally at this point.Great, no quotes. Lazy scum.
Caz often lurks their way to victory when they're scum. They did that in BYOR 15.
I'm pretty sure that Blu is the traitor ally at this point.Great, no quotes. Lazy scum.
My vote's still on Web. for now. I need to see Caz do something - prove, poke, prod. Actually dig in - it seems only NQT is doing that isofar, and doing it against Web - which seems to me to be buddying, but I'm not sure.
I want you to look at the easiest game you can look at over at Caves of Dashar. Look at Caz's play there: Very playful, engaged, attempting to find scum and willing to defend their arguments. Can you honestly say that their play here matches that?Is it really? Get off your perch
chicken noises
Just going based off what I've seen, I'm 92% Caz is the town candidate. Points to wuba for creativity, though.So, I'm both not aggressive enough and hyperaggressive?
Wuba is trying too hard to look town. That's the vibe I'm getting. Hyperagressive, pushing hard, very heavily actively engaged. But... too much so?
You literally don't get the point of that statement, and it's hilarious.Caz often lurks their way to victory when they're scum. They did that in BYOR 15.
The BYOR that I replaced out of near-immediately because of other issues?
Caz is reserved here. They HAVE TO LOOK GOOD to win. And they cannot prove I'm scum because they know I'll be smashing their arguments to bits and looking scummy. So, instead, they'll crowdsource for help, find their ally to do so, and then lurk their way to victory.
This is why I wanted to be an elector. I'd be electing anyone but Caz here for being lazy scum. It's just that simple.
Oof owie not the kneecap.
Still think it's Kitty, btw.
Oh why are you guys wasting the double-kneecap FFS. >:(Caz as Town is a very playful but very accidentally scummy looking player. They OMGUS hard, and it usually comes back to bite them in the end. But, they also keep going for their target. They'll try to get more and more information. This isn't Town Caz because this Caz is afraid to get their hands dirty and look bad.
I don't need to look good man, I only have to prove that you're scum. And you're doing most of that fine by yourself. I dunno if you are acting this way because you are trying to gesture to your ally that you're the traitor but no town!Web is this sloppy.You've done nothing to show I'm scum. I've even given you several avenues of attack. Consider taking one.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Caz is reserved here. They HAVE TO LOOK GOOD to win. And they cannot prove I'm scum because they know I'll be smashing their arguments to bits and looking scummy. So, instead, they'll crowdsource for help, find their ally to do so, and then lurk their way to victory.
This is why I wanted to be an elector. I'd be electing anyone but Caz here for being lazy scum. It's just that simple.
I dunno if you are acting this way because you are trying to gesture to your ally that you're the traitor but no town!Web is this sloppy.
Oof owie not the kneecap.
Still think it's Kitty, btw.Oh why are you guys wasting the double-kneecap FFS. >:(Caz as Town is a very playful but very accidentally scummy looking player. They OMGUS hard, and it usually comes back to bite them in the end. But, they also keep going for their target. They'll try to get more and more information. This isn't Town Caz because this Caz is afraid to get their hands dirty and look bad.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Caz is reserved here. They HAVE TO LOOK GOOD to win. And they cannot prove I'm scum because they know I'll be smashing their arguments to bits and looking scummy. So, instead, they'll crowdsource for help, find their ally to do so, and then lurk their way to victory.
This is why I wanted to be an elector. I'd be electing anyone but Caz here for being lazy scum. It's just that simple.
I dunno if you are acting this way because you are trying to gesture to your ally that you're the traitor but no town!Web is this sloppy.
This whole sentence makes no sense.
The ally knows who the traitor is, you fool.
I refuse to believe that someone as experienced as wuba hasn't thoroughly read over the opening post and start of game post.... Yeah, okay, bud. I read the opening post, and I assumed that there was knowledge of one party knowing the other.
Caz is the town candidate. My vote's on them.
I assumed that the ally knew the traitor. That... is what the word ally means.Do you tell the mafia-ally who the mafia players are, in a typical setup?
There are dozens of games on this forum that prove you wrong. We all make mistakes. I always make mistakes with Tric's games because they tend to have a single sentence and no formatting to help the vision impaired. They also don't post additional information such as role PMs that could potentially clear up said information, so if I misunderstand it, and no information counters that, consider that I cannot rethink a position if it isn't challenged.I understand that you can make mistakes. That said, this game is so simple that I'd be shocked if you managed to misunderstand the setup.
Fucking unbelievable. That sentence alone makes me want to quit this game. It's such an impossible attack to counter. I have to never make mistakes. Wonderful. I kinda don't want to even try now. That means if I ever make a mistake, it's literally easier to just straight up quit the game than it is to continue. No matter what happens, any mistake at all in roles that I don't have, and very little presented...
...
Why even try at this point? I've made one mistake as opposed to Caz's multiple. That's all there is to it, huh? I've never had my enthusiasm to try and fix a mistake be thoroughly shot to death.
And you are being overdramatic >:(I can be anything I want to be.
Blu blu where are you?What question do you imagine you're going to ask BluarianKnight? If you believe them to be my ally (which, again, is physically impossible because I'm not scum), then you have nothing to gain. If you believe they could possibly not be my ally, then you already believe that my ally is voting for you, no? But that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense unless you are scum, which you are, so it does make sense.
Hey, take it as a compliment that people expect you to be competent. I don't think I have the same bar to hurdle on that one.... I think the really unfortunate part here is that if I did yell at you, it would be completely called for. Because you would deserve it for this comment.
Look, it's not just that. Obviously you have to combine multiple factors to nail someone as scum....
It seems unlikely that you'd miss that, but I have to accept that it's possible, so it's just one factor. The smallest factor, really.
The bigger factors are the coins-based flavor attack elaborate scheme nonsense, ignoring Blu as a factor, and your excessive use of meta evidence.
You're saying that because Caz doesn't play like you do, that because they're taking a more passive town style, that they're scum. You moved on from the coins thing as soon as it looked like it wasn't going to help you.
- Please vote in a manner that is viewable with my poor eyesight. If I can't see your vote, I might skip it. I can't trust LurkerTracker to do my vote counts for me, but I'll at least check it for semi-accuracy. Bold and Red makes it really easy to see, so do that please.For the eye thing. It happens. I miss really simple things because I'm not god. That's why I missed an easy-to-read action in BYOR 15. Complex mistakes are made from simple ones. It's literally that easy.
The one thing I know for sure is that you are scum though. In reality, you would make a terrible leader. You would rely on others to make the difficult decisions because it would make you look bad. I would literally cut off a limb to win this game.
What question do you imagine you're going to ask BluarianKnight? If you believe them to be my ally (which, again, is physically impossible because I'm not scum), then you have nothing to gain. If you believe they could possibly not be my ally, then you already believe that my ally is voting for you, no? But that wouldn't make a whole lot of sense unless you are scum, which you are, so it does make sense.
Obviously, I have a big disadvantage in that no matter what people read me, they will always be questioning themselves. Which is why they should be reading Caz.
... I think the really unfortunate part here is that if I did yell at you, it would be completely called for. Because you would deserve it for this comment.
It says that you are okay with not trying. It says that you are okay with not being held in high regards. It says everything about why you are scum.
You don't want to be held to my standard because you would lose that contest. You want to hide. You are afraid to fight me.
I am also still sure that NQT is the ally because they would actually be the most aware of my townmeta, and they've done the least to show I'm scum. They'd also be doing a lot more to find out that Caz is scum or Town. Or even me.
webadict - I think definitely town on D1; slight drop off in post frequency on D2 could mean converted; thread engagement pretty solid; high suspicions count, townish paranoia. Very likely town.This is from Super10, when they misread me as Town for the whole game. That should show to them that Caz is instead a better target to read instead. The unfortunate part about this post is that they also misread Caz, but Caz is not an inconsistent read on their part. It simply fluctuated throughout the game. They believe that high thread engagement would be indicative of Towniness, and I've engaged far more than literally anyone else. This should be giving them some pause, because it's NAI at best. But, they don't. They've decided to stick themselves on me scheming, which is fairly lazy on their part.
Web is trying some convoluted play perhaps to convince me specifically who likes that sort of thing. But the motivation is just completely off. I don't see how the coin ploy makes any sense from a town view.This is their only justification, and they will unlikely bring more until being pointed out. The reason why I point it out is specifically to show FoU and Blu that this is the lazy levels of scum and how they plan to decide their votes.
My vote is Caz. My guess is Blu is the traitor. Their initial post was super unconvincing.
Ah, I'm glad you said this! Let me quote your very own words for you, Caz.Obviously, I have a big disadvantage in that no matter what people read me, they will always be questioning themselves. Which is why they should be reading Caz.
So you don't want people to read you because you look questionable and therefore scummy. Isn't the simplest answer that people who look scummy ARE scum? You want to draw attention away from yourself because you know that you made up that coin story and it backfired, making you look even worse.
Most of the time webadict is town pretending to be mafia pretending to be town pretending to be mafia pretending to be sk pretending to be...Weird how you're saying that I'm hard to read here. I'd say that'd be evidence that you should be AGREEING. If you're Town, then them reading you should literally be a no-brainer. You're an easy read! webadict? That guy is an enigma and possibly a Soviet-era robot developed to handle nuclear warhead launches.Spoiler: ... (click to show/hide)
so it's a bit hard to figure out.
Isn't the simplest answer that people who look scummy ARE scum?You know that this isn't true.
Since I know that I'm town - and funnily enough, both the candidates seem to agree on that too, for whatever reason...That is an incorrect assessment. I do not think you are Town. You think I think you're Town because I think NQT is the ally. That is incorrect. I believe that you are far less likely to be Town than Blu. You are neutral at best specifically because you said there was no way I could make a mistake.
As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.
It is very likely that notquitethere will be steadily pushing for Caz, and I believe this will be readily apparent as the game goes on. Of course, I do believe that Caz may attempt to use this to distance themselves from notquitethere.
Therefore, BluarianKnight and FallacyofUrist are the Town voters.
This was just unhinged, bizarro-world reasoning:As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.
It is very likely that notquitethere will be steadily pushing for Caz, and I believe this will be readily apparent as the game goes on. Of course, I do believe that Caz may attempt to use this to distance themselves from notquitethere.
Therefore, BluarianKnight and FallacyofUrist are the Town voters.
No way is Web town. Therefore, has to be Caz. Blu is backing Web. QED Blu is the traitor voter. I don't think there's anything more to say!
However, there is an ally of the traitor among the 3 voters, though they don't know who the traitor is.
My own answer: I have no information yet whatsoever about the candidates, but flipping a coin gives me Caz.
The luckyowl option. Not the strategy I would pick, but at least you flipped correctly.
So, let's make this one easy for you Fallacy...
A: If Caz was Town and it was mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued the coins don't exist.
B: If Caz was Town and it wasn't mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued that the coins don't exist.
C: If Caz was Scum and it was mentioned in their role PM: Caz wouldn't have argued the coins don't exist.
D: If Caz was Scum and it wasn't mentioned in their role PM: Caz would argue the coins don't exist.
A doesn't matter at this point.
B would have argued that I'm lying about having a coin with Caz's fingerprints on it. This Caz has no idea what Ellif is like, BECAUSE I HAVE THE TOWN PM AND IT LITERALLY ONLY SAYS THAT ELLIF IS BACKING THE OTHER CANDIDATE. If Caz had brought that up, I'd question the authenticity of such a coin, NOT whether those coins are a real thing or not.
C would have literally implicated NQT as the ally. This would have been a perfect outcome for me as well because Caz would be fighting against someone who revealed information that they didn't.
D would have known for a fact that Ellif doesn't have coins and that no coin with Caz's fingerprints exist.
This is NQT level. The coins don't exist because you are lying about having secret information because you AREN'T THAT ROLE.
This was just unhinged, bizarro-world reasoning:As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.
It is very likely that notquitethere will be steadily pushing for Caz, and I believe this will be readily apparent as the game goes on. Of course, I do believe that Caz may attempt to use this to distance themselves from notquitethere.
Therefore, BluarianKnight and FallacyofUrist are the Town voters.
No way is Web town. Therefore, has to be Caz. Blu is backing Web. QED Blu is the traitor voter. I don't think there's anything more to say!
This was just unhinged, bizarro-world reasoning:As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.
It is very likely that notquitethere will be steadily pushing for Caz, and I believe this will be readily apparent as the game goes on. Of course, I do believe that Caz may attempt to use this to distance themselves from notquitethere.
Therefore, BluarianKnight and FallacyofUrist are the Town voters.
No way is Web town. Therefore, has to be Caz. Blu is backing Web. QED Blu is the traitor voter. I don't think there's anything more to say!
Ah, I'm glad you said this! Let me quote your very own words for you, Caz.Obviously, I have a big disadvantage in that no matter what people read me, they will always be questioning themselves. Which is why they should be reading Caz.
So you don't want people to read you because you look questionable and therefore scummy. Isn't the simplest answer that people who look scummy ARE scum? You want to draw attention away from yourself because you know that you made up that coin story and it backfired, making you look even worse.Most of the time webadict is town pretending to be mafia pretending to be town pretending to be mafia pretending to be sk pretending to be...Weird how you're saying that I'm hard to read here. I'd say that'd be evidence that you should be AGREEING. If you're Town, then them reading you should literally be a no-brainer. You're an easy read! webadict? That guy is an enigma and possibly a Soviet-era robot developed to handle nuclear warhead launches.Spoiler: ... (click to show/hide)
so it's a bit hard to figure out.
Oh my god, I'm WOTing again.
Weird how you're saying that I'm hard to read here. I'd say that'd be evidence that you should be AGREEING. If you're Town, then them reading you should literally be a no-brainer. You're an easy read! webadict? That guy is an enigma and possibly a Soviet-era robot developed to handle nuclear warhead launches.
To me all this shows is that you are desperately looking for some way to convince people because you can't do it with my actions in this game. Which is the only thing that should matter, IMO.I'm sorry you feel that way.
You literally referenced a joke based on how IN THAT THREAD you pretended to be a sk (moderator). You're just taking stuff out of context again. Do I have to watch what I say about you in the BANTER THREAD just so you won't somehow use it as evidence of how I should act in-game? the fuck.So, then you admit that I am not hard to read?
I don't need to look good man, I only have to prove that you're scum. And you're doing most of that fine by yourself.I wouldn't call it necessarily a passive style at this point. Rather, it's reactive. Attempting to reveal webadict as the traitor by revealing the flaws and issues with webadict's approach.
As the nominee for my party, I am given security briefings. One such briefing informed me that Caz, the nominee of [NO PARTY NAME GIVEN], is serving our sworn enemy Ellif. Ellif grants their nobility symbolic coins, one of which was found with Caz's dirty fingerprints on it. notquitethere must also have been given one of these coins. notquitethere often breadcrumbs in their opening post as scum, and combining with their wanton attitude this game, it is very likely that notquitethere is therefore the undercover party for Caz, to surrender us to Ellif. Note that notquitethere specifically states that they used a die instead of a real coin to obfuscate their allegiance.I'll be honest, this reads like a conspiracy theory.
It is very likely that notquitethere will be steadily pushing for Caz, and I believe this will be readily apparent as the game goes on. Of course, I do believe that Caz may attempt to use this to distance themselves from notquitethere.
Which part of this play looks like how I usually play scum?This... feels like useless WIFOM. As NQT points out.
I believe in your creative power to approach different games differently.
Rest assured, I'll be reading back and reconsidering the arguments before the day's end.Honestly? Bluarianknight makes a good point. Notquitethere seems low-effort, and not justifiably. Whether I think NQT is the traitor ally or Blu is the traitor ally depends on how well NQT follows up on this post.
Because based on the evidence, Web just fucking shot himself in the foot - but hasn't proven any scumtells or lean-ins. He doesn't want to manipulate the crowd, and provides arguments based on his opinions.See though, acting towny enough is a form of scumtelling. Is the towniness being generated incidentally, or intentionally? That's the big question. My main argument against web is that it feels like he's trying too hard to look town.
webadict: Did you lie about the coin information you claim to have gotten from your flavor?Yes. I have already claimed so.
My own answer: I have no information yet whatsoever about the candidates, but flipping a coin gives me Caz.
The luckyowl option. Not the strategy I would pick, but at least you flipped correctly.
Fallacy- I'm still convinced from the that Blu is the traitor and Web is the bad candidate. What could change my mind? Blu backing Caz.
At this point, NQT, you should consider quickvoting me 20 minutes beforehand and then swapping off like 1 minute before game end. It would be a better play than your current one.This is an attempt to communicate to your ally, right??
You are right that it is obvious. It is FoU that just can't see that. I know you can. That's why it is obvious you are the Ally.At this point, NQT, you should consider quickvoting me 20 minutes beforehand and then swapping off like 1 minute before game end. It would be a better play than your current one.This is an attempt to communicate to your ally, right??
Blu, I don't think appeals to meta are that good in this setup as it's a completely different dynamic. I'm not invested enough to put in hours of puzzling it out when the answer is between two candidates and it's so bleeding obvious which one. Also, I trust both you and Fallacy to be good players. If you're town, you'll figure it out.
But look, for real: do you follow and agree with the reasoning behind Web's coin trap?
Literally this NQT:I don't know why but this is very funny to me. Literally chuckling away here. ("having fun is a known NQT scum!tell") You're right, it is a puzzler. But it would show that Blu is dynamic voter and doesn't already have the answers. But really, I just don't see that world. Your approach relied on really woolly reasoning about what a town player would say in response to someone they know is lying; and Blu just buys this, no question.
The only way you see Blu as not the Ally is if they vote for Caz. Then, by assuming you as not the Ally (or even doing that, whatevs) FoU is the Ally... And also voting for Caz.
So which is it?
At this point, NQT, you should consider quickvoting me 20 minutes beforehand and then swapping off like 1 minute before game end. It would be a better play than your current one.This is an attempt to communicate to your ally, right??
Blu, I don't think appeals to meta are that good in this setup as it's a completely different dynamic. I'm not invested enough to put in hours of puzzling it out when the answer is between two candidates and it's so bleeding obvious which one. Also, I trust both you and Fallacy to be good players. If you're town, you'll figure it out.
But look, for real: do you follow and agree with the reasoning behind Web's coin trap?
Literally this NQT:I don't know why but this is very funny to me. Literally chuckling away here. ("having fun is a known NQT scum!tell") You're right, it is a puzzler. But it would show that Blu is dynamic voter and doesn't already have the answers. But really, I just don't see that world. Your approach relied on really woolly reasoning about what a town player would say in response to someone they know is lying; and Blu just buys this, no question.
The only way you see Blu as not the Ally is if they vote for Caz. Then, by assuming you as not the Ally (or even doing that, whatevs) FoU is the Ally... And also voting for Caz.
So which is it?
PPE: You wish I were the ally.
Literally this NQT:I don't know why but this is very funny to me. Literally chuckling away here. ("having fun is a known NQT scum!tell") You're right, it is a puzzler. But it would show that Blu is dynamic voter and doesn't already have the answers. But really, I just don't see that world. Your approach relied on really woolly reasoning about what a town player would say in response to someone they know is lying; and Blu just buys this, no question.
The only way you see Blu as not the Ally is if they vote for Caz. Then, by assuming you as not the Ally (or even doing that, whatevs) FoU is the Ally... And also voting for Caz.
So which is it?
PPE: You wish I were the ally.
Huh,, just realized.Yep. I told you. We lose, but you are right for the right reasons.
FoU won't be back for game end.
So I guess you win, scum.
Blu, there's no hammers so your reasoning is off there. If you're not the traitor, explain what makes Fallacy the traitor.... I entertained FoU being the Ally but it stopped applying because their defense of Caz made sense from their point of view. They, overall, do seem quite Towny.
Blu, there's no hammers so your reasoning is off there. If you're not the traitor, explain what makes Fallacy the traitor.
Confusing..
My vote's still on Web. for now. I need to see Caz do something - prove, poke, prod. Actually dig in - it seems only NQT is doing that isofar, and doing it against Web - which seems to me to be buddying, but I'm not sure.
I just don't see a world in which this is a town post:Confusing..
My vote's still on Web. for now. I need to see Caz do something - prove, poke, prod. Actually dig in - it seems only NQT is doing that isofar, and doing it against Web - which seems to me to be buddying, but I'm not sure.
The only thing in Web's favour is he wan't it more. But that's not a towntell for Web.
From my view:
If I keep my vote where it is:
- If I'm right, I trusted my gut and saw it through to the end. If I'm wrong, well, that's more on Web for his fancy play.
If I swap
- If I'm right, great, we win. If I'm wrong I'll feel doubly bad for ignoring my instinct
UnvoteUnvoteThey're not. Just stop.
OK, Blu. Why is Fallacy the traitor?
UnvoteUnvote
OK, Blu. Why is Fallacy the traitor?
I think you misunderstand my point. I'm not saying you're scum because you're active. I'm just saying it would be premature to call you town just because you're active.True. It's NAI. But, uh, what about Caz?
I don't think he's directly asked Caz any questions.And there it is. I just checked back and holymoly they're chainsawing. Caz never directly addresses Fallacy and Fallacy never addresses Caz, the entire game.
At this point, NQT, you should consider quickvoting me 20 minutes beforehand and then swapping off like 1 minute before game end. It would be a better play than your current one.Just gonna leave this here.
I don't know what to tell you Web, I'm not the traitor.
Think it's an hour-thirty left.Soontm
Projected Votes
Caz: FoU
Web: BK, NQT
Webadict. Now NQT switching will do absolutely no good.
So, NQT was definitely the Ally, right?I'm assuming this was the case.
You know I wouldn't put it past Tric to set the game up without actually any traitors.Was it... Was it Blu???
Was it... Was it Blu???Well if it wasn't me...
... you aren't the traitor?
Ellif is Fille backwards but I don't think that gets us any closer.
I'm counting this as town practice.Legit thought you were town because you were looking deeper. Now I realize you were looking for the hidden message.
I don't think he's directly asked Caz any questions.And there it is. I just checked back and holymoly they're chainsawing. Caz never directly addresses Fallacy and Fallacy never addresses Caz, the entire game.
That's more suspicious than Web making a dubious fancy play.
My vote's on Web Web
I... should have realized the traitor didn't get who their ally was. It was obvious. AaaaaghI was suspected because I got this reversed. That should've been another hint, too ;)
This reeks of irony.Literally the most ironic win I've had since MVM2.
I'm calling this a win for me.You have solid Townie play. Just need work on the reading angle. Also, I made it extremely difficult because I'm incomprehensible.
DID you actually get something about coins in your PM? Or did you just make it up?I made it up. I figured it'd be easier for everyone if we had something to talk about.
This is lies. My PM contained no information about coins, NQT was the one that brought it up as a Lucky reference.
Caz disputed the existence of coins. They didn't say they received no info on coins. They said no coins exist at all.Lynch all liars webadict.
I think you guys really did elect the traitor candidate.Clearly!
This is lies.It cannot be a lie if they received no information.
This is lies.It cannot be a lie if they received no information.
Correct. But you can only know I'm lying if you're scum.This is lies.It cannot be a lie if they received no information.
It can be a lie if I know you're lying. :P
You're also lying if Caz is town though, since then you would be lying scum. You know you're town, but others don't. So a town caz would also know about the lie since you'd be scum.Correct. But you can only know I'm lying if you're scum.This is lies.It cannot be a lie if they received no information.
It can be a lie if I know you're lying. :P