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Finally... => Life Advice => Topic started by: Vector on April 07, 2021, 04:46:19 pm

Title: coffee
Post by: Vector on April 07, 2021, 04:46:19 pm
Hi,

I am trying to learn to make coffee. I require the following two items that I do not yet possess:


yeah yeah drip coffee is how our fathers, my father included, did it, I'm losing my right to call myself pro-union and pro-worker. I don't care. Tell me about what to look for in a grinder and in a french press.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Doomblade187 on April 07, 2021, 05:24:42 pm
French press doesn't need much, you just have to be careful not to break it. For a french press, you could spend more money for a burr grinder (~$50) for more even grounds, but a typical bladed spice grinder will be fine in my opinion. French press uses a coarser grind than espresso and drip coffee because it uses a wire mesh filter as opposed to filter paper.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: wierd on April 07, 2021, 11:40:16 pm
I always do pour-over when making fancy coffee.

(otherwise my drip machine is fine.)
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Rose on April 07, 2021, 11:56:35 pm
I just want to point out that moka pots are also very good.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: gimlet on April 08, 2021, 09:25:08 am
The way to get around the grinder decision for a while is to have the coffee shop grind a bit of your coffee when you buy it.   Ideally you would not want to grind the whole bag (ground coffee flavor changes much faster than whole beans), but getting a few days worth will be fine.

It's well worth finding a good local coffee shop/roaster and tasting what they can do with their beans, then compare what you can do.  If you really get into it, there are a lot of variables to experiment with - water temperature, grind fineness, steep time, water-to-coffee ratio, etc.

Have fun!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: anewaname on April 08, 2021, 09:48:06 am
I grind about 2 weeks of beans with a nutri-bullet. The coffee comes out fine grain, nearly powder, like some pre-ground "European" coffees sold in the USA. The main thing for me is, only one tool on the kitchen counter.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Strife26 on April 08, 2021, 09:27:38 pm
There's nothing wrong with buying pre-ground coffee.

Steel is much nicer than glass for a french press carafe, although you lose out being able to see the water level.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on April 08, 2021, 11:45:32 pm
So, reality is that I have a small sample of unground beans that somebody gave me already. My dad does preground beans with a drip filter into his enamel camping cup and buys just about the cheapest shit he can find; don't worry, I know how to do that. I wasn't born yesterday.

Let's refine the question: I know someone whose daughter was allowed entry to Stanford because of her exquisite knowledge of European tea service. No shit.

No power on heaven or earth is going to denude me of my slightly rural accent, but it could help to be able to offer professors coffee reflecting a, I dunno, sensitive taste. I've got the tea thing on lock and I'll work on the wine thing later. I don't like spending money on nothing (a la crappy tea sold in silk teabags) but I am willing to spend some money if it generates actual quality. Similarly, don't mind buying some specialized equipment. I'm really going for the "drop some money on a good pair of boots" style of food production.

So, I'm hearing a few things:

Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Rose on April 09, 2021, 12:11:11 am
Moka pot makes espresso, yes. Use if for all the usual things you do with espresso.

Only complication is that every size of moka pot makes a very specific amount of espresso, and can't really be varied.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: anewaname on April 09, 2021, 01:45:25 am
So, you are looking to improve your ability to deliver an "you have been served an enjoyable experience" to someone using coffee, in the form of a cultural experience, a chemical experience, or a reminiscent experience.

You want them to experience that caffeine high that makes everything so nice for a few minutes, alongside some other tasty flavors, and for that to be reminiscent of another place or something in their past. For additional flavors, seek out different cultural foods that were created to be served with coffee (or tea), like the Italian Biscotti, with strong anise, licorice, and almond flavors that compliment coffee (the good biscuits are not fancy, not large, and not sugar bombs, they are crisp and and smell only of the plant flavoring). There are many other cultural side-biscuits.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on April 09, 2021, 06:40:29 am
I have an ancient (around 1890) Peugeot coffee grinder. My great-grandma bought it.
It still works like a charm.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Peugeot made all kinds of steel hand tools and kitchen equipment, before moving on to bicycles and automobiles.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: wierd on April 09, 2021, 09:57:49 pm
Again, pourover with a moistened cone filter produces excellent and strong coffe.  Drip coffee it is not.

I make an acceptable latte knockoff using the following method at work:

Take a tall coffe mug, fill it halfway with milk.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrP7p5hc/20210409-222906.jpg)

Put it in the microwave for 2 minutes, or until just scalded.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYy74Dct/20210409-223157.jpg)

Add 2tbs sugar, and 2tsp quality vanilla extract.
(Taste a small portion to ensure it is right. I used about half the sugar pictured and all the vanilla. ~7.5ml)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qvY6JQwS/20210409-223249.jpg)


Load up another tall cup with your pourover filter and cone.
Fill it appropriately with your grounds.
I have to make due at work with what is on hand. Proper kit is better.
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2ry4hg1/20210409-223357.jpg)

Slowly pour just boiled water over the grounds in a continous, swirling motion, keeping all of the grounds wetted, but not heavily swimming.  The coffee should be very dark and staining but not muddy.

(No image. Not enough hands.)

Once you have half of a tall cup's worth of the pourover, combine it with the scalded milk.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFpjy647/20210409-223759.jpg)

Add whipped cream on top and stir in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rw82dLnt/20210409-223905.jpg)

Add another shot of whipped cream as
Garnish, then serve.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wBCWmXqb/20210409-223933.jpg)
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: wierd on April 09, 2021, 10:58:24 pm
I should point out the obvious:

PROPER LATTE does not use a microwave, nor does it use whipped cream.

Instead, it uses a milk steamer to steam and froth the milk. At work, i have no such fancy kit. I have a knockoff kureg machine(and its filter basket), industrial drip machines, a microwave, and a refrigerator. I got creative and made "fake latte".

It is quite passable though.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 10, 2021, 09:21:49 am
Most methods of coffee making are pretty easy methinks.

As others have said all you need for a French press are whole beans if you want to use a grinder.

If you are interested there are also espresso machines, stovepot pots/moka pots, Turkish coffee, pour overs, AeroPress, and cowboy coffee--there are more but they get increasingly complicated from here.

They do produce somewhat different textures/mouthfeels/etc. but the real magic is finding coffee beans that you like. Also how much you are willing to prepare them. Buy them pre-ground? Grind them yourself? Roast them yourself?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on April 11, 2021, 06:33:34 am
My wife just broke out french press (very thin glass one).

Anyway, in this thread for whenever I buy a new device. Maybe  moka?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Jimmy on April 13, 2021, 03:42:57 am
I invested years ago in a stainless steel french press pot, enough to get four cups of decent coffee and a half cup of dregs if you're desperate enough to drain it completely. Decades of use, still get good coffee every time.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You want to buy one with a body that's a single piece of brushed stainless steel. The inside should have no hard corners where grounds can become stuck. The body should be insulated so the coffee inside stays hot and the outside doesn't become hot to the touch. The pouring lip should be a moulded part of the body of the pot, not a welded extra. Accept no plastic in construction.

The press itself is the most important piece of the pot, and so you don't want to buy budget. A cheap mesh or flimsy connection with the press rod will mean the filter will wobble, shudder or otherwise fail to separate the grounds, meaning you get gritty, bitter coffee. The mesh connection should feel solid when you examine it, not wobbly or loose.

Lastly, the best french press in the world won't compensate for poor preparation technique. Allow the coffee enough time to properly brew before you press it, and when you're ready, press slowly. As in, go at your slow speed, but actually twice as slow as that. Do it like you're a five year old kid annoying their older sister by trying to do something as slowly as possible.

As a confession, being Australian means we're all pretty used to European coffee. Drip coffee is rare over here. Proper espresso is king of the cafe, but a good french press is enough for home use when you don't want to invest in a home unit.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on April 13, 2021, 07:11:51 pm
Late to the party but I'll chime in:

Coffee fanatic here. After quitting soda pretty much it's my go-to caffeine source.

Did drip coffee for years and hated having to buy a new one every 2 years, or when something got fucked up like having two grounds in the drip exit blocking the whole thing and causing it to overflow while you're in the bathroom getting ready for work.

After I started doing coffee shops more regularly and realizing just how fucking bad domestic big brand American coffee is, I started buying bean and knew I shouldn't waste the money putting it through a drip machine. (Forgive me pour-over fans, but I just can't. I don't know if it makes a superior tasting cup of coffee or not, it just looks kinda absurd to me to have to stand over it and babysit it.)

I tried an AeroPress first because it was compact, easy to clean, durable, etc....but after 6 months I realized that a) it's particular about how many grounds you put in and b) is pressure sensitive.  When you've spent the last 3 minutes steeping it and go to plunge and the paper filter moves or tears......frustrating. (And it's plastic so even if it works properly it tastes like shit.) You also need the right shape of cup; if you've got a big, wide mouthed cup the AeroPress may not be able to sit firmly over it, which means you have to transfer the coffee from another receptacle. Not ideal.

So yeah, went to a French Press and never looked back.

I've broken two? so far in about 6 years. Knocking it out in the trash, it connected with a glass bottle and broke. I think the other one I was moving it in the vicinity of the sink and it caught the edge of a plate or glass or something.

Other than that, I think it doesn't really matter. (I'm not at Jimmy's level of sagacity when it comes to French Presses.) I've bought three? of the generic Badum Chambord: https://www.bodum.com/us/en/1928-57-chambord?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz-GF6Lf87wIV4oFbCh3o3w7yEAQYASABEgLDuvD_BwE

You can find them pretty much everywhere that has a household goods section.

It's a run of the mill French Press but it gets the job done. Make sure to get the one that has little metal legs raising the beaker off the surface. I've bought one before where the base is encased in rubber. Seems better right? More stable? Protected from hits by the rubber? Well, the beaker is in direct contact with the rubber base and I think the glass got cracked at some point when plunging too aggressively.

As for a grinder, meh. I've been using the same coffee grinder my mom had back in the 80s that she gave to me. I think it's this model: https://cdn.cutleryandmore.com/products/large/27678.jpg

The blades are probably dull as shit by now but it's always done the job none the less.

Coarse or fine ground, I don't think it honestly matters. Coarse ground can be plunged sooner than fine ground, what really matters for fine grounds is how long you let it steep. The longer it steeps, the more stuff that floats to the bottom and makes it easier to plunge. I like my coffee strong AF so I'll let it steep for 5+ minutes. Less than 3 and you can definitely feel resistance on the plunger which you don't really want. More than 5+ and you likely won't notice a difference between coarse or fine ground (on plungability anyways.)

I'm also a firm believer in grinding coffee beans to order. If you have it pre-ground by a coffee shop or something, keep it air tight, drink it within a week I don't know if there's much of a difference. I typically go through a pound of coffee beans a week but even then I still prefer it have it freshly ground. You can just tell by the froth that gets generated by pouring water into freshly ground beans that you're getting maximum goodness out of it. When it's ground the oils in the beans are exposed and start to dry out. Again, within a week? Probably not a noticeable difference. Longer than that though and you will notice that ground coffee, even airtight coffee, just doesn't have the same body and freshness and richness because those oils have started to breakdown. Still good if you bought good bean, but if you're going to be buying good bean....make every cup worth it.

Only other things I'd advise you to watch out for with a French Press: stirring it. After you pour water in you'll want to stir it pretty well so it mixes evenly. But if you're using a metal spoon, do NOT let that thing clack and hit the side of the press, or it will eventually crack and break it.

Last thing: after you've poured your cup I'd recommend emptying and cleaning the press immediately. It's much easier when the grounds are still hot/warm and the fact the beaker is still warm or hot too causes you to treat it with more care. When those grounds get cold they're harder to get out because they're compressed, which means you may have to clean more aggressively, which means you increase your chances of breaking it. If you're like me and you use a kettle to bring water up to boiling, be aware that the glass of the press after the water has been added is also at boiling temp. Never put actual boiling water in your glass press. Wait for it to stop boiling and bubbling before you put it in or you risk the glass shattering. Along with that, when you go to rinse out your press that you just freshly poured coffee from, use HOT water. If you put cold water in the press after you've freshly poured coffee, that thing WILL shatter because of thermal contraction. I dunno what it is about the glass in French Presses. It's not thin but it seems rather fragile.

And for the record...my bean of choice is Columbian Supremo. I used to drink a lot of African coffees but CS is just so full bodied, smooth, vaguely chocolately. And it's common enough I don't have a problem finding it.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Jimmy on April 14, 2021, 03:18:53 am
Great advice from nenjin above.

The big benefits of the stainless steel design I use is the durability, since there's no glass to break, and the insulation, since a Bodum Chambord will let the coffee grow cold faster, meaning if you make a four cup pot, you'd best be prepared to drink all four within fifteen to twenty minutes. A well insulated steel pot will have hot coffee inside an hour later.

The downside is that some complain the steel adds an unsavory taste. Personally, given that all french press pots use a steel plunger in their design, I doubt this claim has anything to do with the pot's construction, though possibly cheap pots might be different. Can't really attest to their taste, personally. [insert snobbish sniff]

Regarding alternatives, there's a growing market, at least down here in kangaroo land, for pod coffee machines (https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/HhPE6pH89EKGWUnRBXLMTX-768-80.jpg). It's a mini-espresso machine that uses disposable, single use coffee 'pods' that are basically a barista shot of grounds pre-packaged to fit inside the machine, which you use and throw away.

I've tried them, and altogether, the flavour isn't terrible. They actually can get a decent crema, the sealed shot pods mean you don't have to choose between grinding your own coffee or having half a bag of grounds turn stale, and clean-up is fairly straightforward with most models, though if you're an environmentalist, you'll probably balk at the amount of single use plastic consumed for a single cup of coffee.

However, my personal gripe with them is that I've never had a cup come out of the machine that's the right temperature. They're all lukewarm, tepid concoctions. Despite the fact they pull a decent crema, by avoiding the burnt flavour an amateur barista might produce if they run the water too hot, the machine errs on the side of caution by keeping the temperature consistently low. This is no doubt because the machine's design forces all the water through the coffee grounds during preparation, so you can't two-step the process by creating a low temp shot followed by high temp water. Plus, most of the time, the heating element's pretty gutless anyway, and they never come with a steamer, so forget getting a latte.

Still, I'd drink one over drip coffee any day of the week.

Finally, I'd steer clear of any 'home' espresso machines. They're messy, they're finicky, and the quality is frankly not worth the hassle over simply using a french press. If you want a real espresso, either spend a few thousand dollars on a commercial grade machine, or just go out and buy a damn coffee from a cafe.

Regarding bean source, I'm with nenjin in preferring South American beans over African. The majority of the African beans I've experienced end up too high on the bitter, acidic end for my palate. South American blends tend towards a lower profile of flavours, which means there's less chance of being stand-out, but also less chance of offending. I'm not so snobbish as to regularly source my beans from a single supplier; I just get a bag of whatever's available at the supermarket. I also use a bullet blender to do my grinding, but if you grind in bulk, I'm told freezing the grounds can preserve their aromatic properties longer.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on April 14, 2021, 10:46:57 am
Quote
The big benefits of the stainless steel design I use is the durability, since there's no glass to break, and the insulation, since a Bodum Chambord will let the coffee grow cold faster, meaning if you make a four cup pot, you'd best be prepared to drink all four within fifteen to twenty minutes. A well insulated steel pot will have hot coffee inside an hour later.

It's true. I don't even know how many cups mine actually makes, I use a big oversized coffee mug that's already like 16oz or something, so I usually pour in the whole thing. So getting cold isn't an issue for me but surely it will be for someone who is less of a fiend than I am.

Quote
Regarding alternatives, there's a growing market, at least down here in kangaroo land, for pod coffee machines. It's a mini-espresso machine that uses disposable, single use coffee 'pods' that are basically a barista shot of grounds pre-packaged to fit inside the machine, which you use and throw away.

Quote
However, my personal gripe with them is that I've never had a cup come out of the machine that's the right temperature. They're all lukewarm, tepid concoctions. Despite the fact they pull a decent crema, by avoiding the burnt flavour an amateur barista might produce if they run the water too hot, the machine errs on the side of caution by keeping the temperature consistently low. This is no doubt because the machine's design forces all the water through the coffee grounds during preparation, so you can't two-step the process by creating a low temp shot followed by high temp water. Plus, most of the time, the heating element's pretty gutless anyway, and they never come with a steamer, so forget getting a latte.

I tried a Keurig for a while and I had many of the same experiences. I thought "hey, reusable k-cups, use my own bean, cool." But as you said, it came out luke warm at the end and the grounds never really seemed like they got truly saturated. So I ended up with a weak, tepid cup of coffee. I think I did that for maybe two weeks before I shelved it and started trying the AeroPress.

Quote
Regarding bean source, I'm with nenjin in preferring South American beans over African. The majority of the African beans I've experienced end up too high on the bitter, acidic end for my palate. South American blends tend towards a lower profile of flavours, which means there's less chance of being stand-out, but also less chance of offending

Yeah the bitterness and acidity of African coffees is kind of a turn off. But what really cut it for me was the lack of body. I like cream and a little bit of sugar in my coffee and after adding some cream to African coffees, it's all I could taste. That and the bitterness of the aftertaste. But the actual body was missing, or was so subtle that it was completely eclipsed by the dairy. I don't seem to have that issue with South American beans. The dairy actually seems to accentuate the flavors and bring them to the fore.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 15, 2021, 11:00:09 am
It's gonna be a hard disagree from me on the Bean Source. African Beans have awesome flavor, I recommend them from Ethiopian regions.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on April 15, 2021, 11:56:34 am
Just comes down to taste. I can drink African coffees but they just don't get me excited for the flavor like South American beans. Like, South American coffees are lip smacking good to me after I'm done with it. I don't get that with African beans. I can appreciate the flavor profile and what not, it's just not as satisfying to drink.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 15, 2021, 02:27:52 pm
Just comes down to taste. I can drink African coffees but they just don't get me excited for the flavor like South American beans. Like, South American coffees are lip smacking good to me after I'm done with it. I don't get that with African beans. I can appreciate the flavor profile and what not, it's just not as satisfying to drink.

indeed, vice versa, my King
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on April 15, 2021, 04:41:02 pm
I had a loooong post that was eaten by being forcibly logged out but I wanted to just say thank you for what everyone has said so far.

I wouldn't mind roasting and grinding the beans myself, a Keurig or drip machine is definitely not in my interest. This post about sums it up:

So, you are looking to improve your ability to deliver an "you have been served an enjoyable experience" to someone using coffee, in the form of a cultural experience, a chemical experience, or a reminiscent experience.

You want them to experience that caffeine high that makes everything so nice for a few minutes, alongside some other tasty flavors, and for that to be reminiscent of another place or something in their past.


r.e. Robusta vs. Arabica, perhaps part of the problem here is that most of Africa's peoples cannot process milk as adults, so people would not be motivated to develop a coffee that goes well with cream.

I was invited to share a cup of coffee by some Ethiopian women once and it's definitely different, but still very pleasant. I think the smell might be more important/as important as the flavor. And of course, you have to consider the food that you're having it with.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on April 15, 2021, 04:46:10 pm
Really? I thought the inability to process milk is more an Asian thing. Milk cows are pretty common in Africa.

EDIT: Oh hey, you're right. Genetic lactose-intolerance is not just Asia, it's Africa too.
Learn something new every day.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2021, 11:36:07 am
Quote
r.e. Robusta vs. Arabica, perhaps part of the problem here is that most of Africa's peoples cannot process milk as adults, so people would not be motivated to develop a coffee that goes well with cream.

That would make sense. You need less body when you're not putting anything additional in there, and you cultivate a flavor where the high end notes are what you pay attention to.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: EuchreJack on May 07, 2021, 09:37:09 am
And now I know that African coffee is probably going to taste better to me than South American (I don't add milk to my coffee).  Thanks folks!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 07, 2021, 11:17:23 am
I'd get a cup of each and see what you think. I'd still prefer South American over African, additives or no.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 07, 2021, 12:14:06 pm
I like robusta, if prepared in the right way. Nespresso´s kazaar is my favorite and its mostly robusta.

I do drink it without milk. Not because of lactose intolerance, mind you, I just used myself to espresso because back when I was in speciality training I had a coffee machine in my room, but no fridge, and thus no way to keep milk. So I drank my espressos straight.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Kassire on May 07, 2021, 01:22:37 pm
As someone who is not the greatest coffee connoisseur and likes to use excessive amounts of evaporated milk and sugar in their coffee: Moka pots are legit. However, the coffee they produce is not really comparable to (real) espresso, even though the coffee they make is somewhat stronger than your average drip machine.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on May 08, 2021, 02:48:01 am
Bought a stainless steel french press that is nice enough (and well worth the price) and enjoying real coffee every once in a while. B)
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Lawson on May 17, 2021, 06:03:53 am
Cooking with a french press is quite convenient. Recently, however, there is only time left to whip cream into coffee brewed in a coffee machine.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 17, 2021, 09:06:58 am
Ah something has just come to mind, what do we think about milk, whipped/steamed/foamed milk, cream, and creamers?

I usually don't bother any more with dairy in my coffee because a.) I only have coffee every 2-4 days and I get worried my dairy is going bad, and b.) it can take a while to get fancy (but maybe im just bad at it). My parents are really good at foaming milk, but eh--I can't say that making espresso with that at home has ever really been worth it.

Also, a creamer recommendation for peeps pressed on time: Bailey's (the cream liqueur people) Non-alcoholic Coffee Creamers, they're good as hell, both the original and vanilla variants. I saw somewhere that they might have been discontinued recently, but I still see them in my grocery store, so? Anyways, sometimes when I do like dairy they are nice because they're fast to mix and they're not overly sweet (ymmv on that note).

ALSO, honey or sugar? I do be a big fan of honey in my coffee.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: xpi0t0s on May 17, 2021, 11:38:55 am
I've been watching James Hoffmann on YouTube.

I used to think DF was complicated. DF doesn't have water recipes. Water recipes!!!! OK, except for the vampire in the well thingy.

But Aeropress coffee is fun to experiment with brew times, grind size, inverted or non-inverted, using it for tea instead of coffee, etc etc etc...
I am now drinking coffee without sugar though so that's good. Can't drink instant without sugar (never have been able).

I'm still not sure I should have splashed out on a Comandante but hey ho.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 17, 2021, 12:42:11 pm
After much experimentation with an Aero Press, I came to the determination it's a janky piece of equipment despite being very simple. Maybe for camping it's worthwhile but for home use? I'd almost rather buy and replace a drip coffee maker than use it.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: gimlet on May 17, 2021, 06:09:16 pm
I stopped putting any kind of milk or flavoring in most coffee years ago - it hides the flavors I've been trying so hard to get to come out, and now that I'm making reasonably good coffee I actually really like the taste of black coffee and trying to notice the subtle flavor differences.

Bummer, find something that works for you but I really like my aeropress, I got a metal filter and have been using it 1-2x a day for years.   It's super forgiving wiith all variety of beans, 30 seconds or even 1 minute off on timing, or the water temperature is even 5-10 degrees off, still pretty good coffee.   And it's a bit easier to clean than the french press.   I even tried some water recipes, but I guess my palate isn't so refined, I couldn't taste any difference so I don't bother anymore, I just filter tap water once.  We do have pretty good tap water.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 17, 2021, 06:17:50 pm
Truly, cleaning French Presses is the worst part of owning one. That's why I just do it right after I make my coffee; just to get it over with and ready for next time.

I liked the simplicity and ease of the Aero Press. Having your coffee apparatus fit in a travel size nylon bag is like, the future man. I just didn't like how my coffee came out, how many grounds it would accept and the fact it's a pressurized mechanism. When those paper filters go in the middle of a plunge, it ain't pretty. I feel like what makes the French Press good is also what makes it suck, and the same with the Aero Press. Materials. The French Press is all metal and glass, the Aero Press is all plastic and rubber. (Never did see a metal filter in the kit that I see getting sold in coffee shops.) It's probably all in my palette but after a few months of drinking Aero Press coffee, I stopped enjoying my coffee. Got a French Press, and the taste difference with the same bean was pretty noticeable to me.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: gimlet on May 17, 2021, 06:31:11 pm
Huh I never had a paper filter fail, I only used about 1/3 of the pack before I bought metal filters off amazon though.   And I do wish it was slightly bigger, I like to make a 320 gram cup, but it's not that big a hassle to me to just pour the extra water into the mug after I press.  I used to slightly prefer the taste over the french press, but I haven't compared in a couple of years, might be interesting to re-check that.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 17, 2021, 10:30:55 pm
Admittedly I was probably using too much bean, possibly too much water. But after screwing in the cap with the filter and plunging, the filter would slide to the side a little bit and expose some of the holes in the cap. The feel on the plunger would be noticeable as all the resistance left it. Then I'd look down and see grounds floating on the top of my coffee. I think the plastic also deformed a little toward the end from using too hot of water too often, so it stopped forming a perfect seal. Anyways, after a few months of that I got a French Press.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Immortal on May 18, 2021, 04:56:25 pm
Another coffee fanatic checking in. Everyone has great points. I'll just throw mine out there:

First -french presses will leave a dust/mud (called "fines") in your coffee. Unless you have a good burr grinder, then put it in a sifter to get the dust out, you'll still get it. French press does make a nice pot of coffee though. I recommend a stainless one, look for something that labels it as made from 18-8 (good stainless, higher number better), from a not sketchy manufacturer. If you buy a cheap one, you will taste the metal, since coffee is highly acidic it'll leach the steel. French presses can't use pre-ground very well, since pre-ground is dust heavy.

Second - pour over/dripper coffee (not drip coffee), it has a simple plastic/glass cone that sits on the mug, or bigger ones for pots, then a paper filter inside, is best. It'll provide a clean, dust/fines/sediment free, and pull the taste just as well. Also it's able to make a very strong coffee. They're also like $5 for the cone, and $5 for a pack of 200 filters.

Other coffee options: aeropress (quite nice), "Chemex" (fad, it's just pour over), percolator (nice), coffee machine (easy), espresso machine (great but involved)

Alright, essentially, all methods of making coffee are pretty good, some need more work, some are cleaner, but the big point is, if you're using crappy beans, and adding flavourings, it doesn't matter how you make it. You need to locate good coffee! This is the biggest component.

You can google your area for "coffee roasters", "third wave coffee", "single origin coffee", and any other hipster terms + coffee. You need to locate someone who gets beans from a specific farm, and roasts them properly. They'll sell the coffee with the cupping notes (cupping is the tasting of the coffee that is done at the farmers market in the coffee producing country, which is followed by bidding for the lot of beans). Notes will be "chocolate, stonefruit, cherry, blueberry, agave, cane sugar, bright, clean, complex, melon" etc. This stuff, it's like rib-eye vs round or cheesewiz vs. 2 year old hickory smoked Gouda, or whatever else. Something to mix into your diet occasionally.

Next bean source: there is amazing coffee all over the world. "African coffee is acidic" is like saying all "Asian people are smart". That's a pretty broad brush. Stuff from Nicaragua is vastly different from Sumatra or Ethiopia. My personal favourite is Ethiopian. Even the elevation within the country and the soil changes it. This stuff is like grapes.

To find economic coffee, you'll have to essentially just try all the ones in the grocery store. I tried about a dozen, before I found a pre-ground that was decently good. Don't bother with anything Starbucks or McDonald etc, or any of the commons advertised on TV, big waste of time. Try the slightly different, but stocked in good quantities at the grocery store.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 18, 2021, 06:08:09 pm
Quote
Stuff from Nicaragua is vastly different from Sumatra or Ethiopia. My personal favourite is Ethiopian. Even the elevation within the country and the soil changes it. This stuff is like grapes.

Pretty sure Nicaragua is on a different continent than the other two :P Stuff from a given continent ranges on a spectrum, I've found. I should try some Asian and Middle Eastern coffee. Although with most coffee from the Middle East, I've found it's way less about the bean and WAY more about the preparation of it that makes it. Curious what regional coffee from around there would taste like prepared normally.

As for the Fines, it's true. You get some sludge the bottom of a French Press cup, even if you don't pour off every last drop of it from the carafe.

I also put a dash of cinnamon in my coffee for the health benefits (but after the last couple years, the taste as well.) It ALSO doesn't dissolve very well, and when you mix that and the Fines you get this rich, thick sludge. I usually know I'm done with my work coffee in a thermos when the consistency goes from coffee --> snot :P

Still, at home, I don't mind the Fines. After about 10 minutes I give my coffee a good stir and the fines recirculate and kinda refresh the flavor and depth of my coffee. But if it is something that, if it would bother a person then it's a legit consideration for a French Press. I just stopped drinking my coffee to the last drop. Not like I need all of it after pouring it into a huge ass cup.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 19, 2021, 09:29:20 am
@Immortal, another Ethiopian bean lover!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on May 19, 2021, 02:55:16 pm
I also put a dash of cinnamon in my coffee for the health benefits (but after the last couple years, the taste as well.)
I have no idea if there's parts of the world where this is tradition, but I've found that adding a little bit of clove to your coffee is also pretty tasty for a change. Careful though, clove is strong. Use minimally.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 19, 2021, 03:48:56 pm
I also put a dash of cinnamon in my coffee for the health benefits (but after the last couple years, the taste as well.)
I have no idea if there's parts of the world where this is tradition, but I've found that adding a little bit of clove to your coffee is also pretty tasty for a change. Careful though, clove is strong. Use minimally.

For me it was driven by health decisions. Cinnamon is kinda magical in the body. Affects your insulin resistance and body's ability to move sugars out of your blood stream, although the mechanism is not well understood. Yet it's hard to find places to fit a teaspoon of Cinnamon in to your daily diet (do NOT just try to eat a teaspoon of Cinnamon, you will regret it.) So coffee was the natural place to do it. Now, it just doesn't taste right to me without a bit of Cinnamon in there.

I'm sure coffee purists would find that is altogether too many additives to coffee to really appreciate the flavor....but that's the thing about coffee. You do it how you like it!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on May 20, 2021, 06:01:09 am
Another nice combo with cinnamon: Apple. Just cut an apple into small parts, put some cinnamon powder over it, enjoy!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on May 20, 2021, 12:43:47 pm
I'm at the point where I'm actually gonna start buying stuff ... I think beginning with the burr grinder. Does anyone have one that they especially recommend?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: gimlet on May 20, 2021, 04:00:07 pm
I am super happy with my Baratza Virtuoso, it's built like a tank and has stood up to daily use and abuse for almost a decade.  They sell parts for them too, and not at a crazy markup.   The only thing I ever had to replace was the burr ring because the side retaining tabs cracked off (as it's designed to do if it hits something too hard to grind like a pebble), and it was like $8.   That might be a bit much if you're not sure of a multi-year commitment, I've heard good things about the Baratza Encore as a better starting point, try to catch a sale too.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on May 20, 2021, 04:02:47 pm
Like I said way above, Krups seems like a good mid-range offering. My Krups has easily lasted me a decade, never replaced anything on it. Newer models may vary.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on May 31, 2021, 06:55:17 pm
OK, about to actually purchase some things for real ... I decided on a nice manual grinder because my mother is nostalgic about the kind she used to see on the farm. She doesn't especially like me drinking coffee so the aesthetic will help her maintain a cheerful disposition :) Plus there is less heat output. (expensive but I am chucking a stimulus check at this project anyhow).

One of the things that I want to buy is one of those cylindrical electric kettles where you push the button on top to manually pump out water, for my office at work. I'm really nostalgic about that kind of water boiler. Does anyone know anyone who makes them and sells them in the US other than Zojirushi?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Jimmy on June 01, 2021, 02:53:09 am
Since I'm in the wrong hemisphere of the globe to give specific advice on your question, my general advice would be to start by investigating any local hospitality or catering supply stores for their kettle options. I commonly see those type of units within hotel settings, and I'd expect the stores that cater to those businesses would sell that kind of device.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on June 01, 2021, 09:33:52 am
Oh, I see. No, I don't want the ones that are like, for a hotel. I want the one like this one (https://shop.zojirushi.com/collections/water-boilers-warmers/products/cwpzc). I got used to it while working in a Chinese-American boss's house.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: gimlet on June 01, 2021, 10:01:41 am
On the manual grinder, make sure to get one that gets good reviews *from coffee enthusiasts* like James Hoffman, non-enthusiast reviews like Amazon are not worth as much as they don't value or evaluate the things you'll need to get top notch coffee.
 
Sorry I don't have any recommendation for other than the Zojirushi, those are the ones I've been eyeing but find it hard to justify the price when I have a fast electric kettle with temperature set,  maintain temperature and automatic turnoff, maybe look at one of those as an alternative.   If you're going to do any kind of pourovers a gooseneck kettle is definitely handy anyway...
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on June 01, 2021, 11:44:08 am
Oh, I see. No, I don't want the ones that are like, for a hotel. I want the one like this one (https://shop.zojirushi.com/collections/water-boilers-warmers/products/cwpzc). I got used to it while working in a Chinese-American boss's house.

I mean, it's nice? But a $15 electric kettle from Walmart or wherever is easier to clean and has fewer electronics that can breakdown?

Just saying. Been using the same kettle for probably 7 years now. About the worst thing is that you have to descale it from time to time.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on June 01, 2021, 01:38:14 pm
Yeah ... the thing is that I want to heat an amount of water that will let all my students bring their tea mugs and drink tea during office hours ... it's not for personal use (I am getting an inexpensive gooseneck for home). It's kind of a professional investment.

Well, I will think about it.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on June 01, 2021, 06:09:00 pm
Fair. Although bog standard ones, I can fill my normal French Press to the top while only filling the kettle about 1/4. So they hold quite a bit of volume.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on June 01, 2021, 06:31:25 pm
Ya, not for coffee though ... for hot water dispensing in the office ...

Anyway, like I said I have to think about it.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: hedgerow on June 06, 2021, 02:11:31 pm
Hi,

I am trying to learn to make coffee. I require the following two items that I do not yet possess:

  • grinder
  • french press

yeah yeah drip coffee is how our fathers, my father included, did it, I'm losing my right to call myself pro-union and pro-worker. I don't care. Tell me about what to look for in a grinder and in a french press.

Coffee is a cultural icon; it's how your ancestors eventually lead you to be woke up in the morning, assuming you're American (not a great assumption), and assuming you can appreciate the sanctity of your morning routine, you'll notice some valued interjections: the chemistry of your day; the tasks of your day; and the flavor with which you'll pair with your roast.

I suggest a mild coffee, with three too many sugars and just enough cream to make it mono.  I would certainly look for a grinder that allows for a variable grind, which isn't hard to find, and you should avoid hand cranks unless you're looking for a cup of java.

And uh, I don't press.  Just grind.  The sanctity of the bean is at stake; we can't compromise to the French.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Jimmy on June 07, 2021, 03:05:48 am
Viva la France!

Investing in a decent but not overly expensive french press coffee pot will have a dramatic difference to your quality of brew. Seriously, drip coffee has to be one of the worst coffee preparation methods invented. I'm sorry Americans, but when you've grown up surrounded by espresso cafes on every street corner, in a country where Starbucks went out of business because locals couldn't stand the poor quality, be prepared to get harshly judged.

Now, I like my coffee strong, with milk. I'll add two large tablespoons of grind for a two cup french press pot, brew for a quarter hour, and press. To this brew, nothing but a splash of fresh milk is required, since sugar spoils the taste and turns it into coffee flavoured confectionary. The beans I buy are supermarket blended South American, and I'll grind them in a food processor on a low setting and refrigerate or freeze them for storage.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on June 07, 2021, 11:02:20 am
Quote
brew for a quarter hour

Jebus I thought I liked it strong. That's borderline Middle Eastern coffee at that rate.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Jimmy on June 08, 2021, 02:47:34 am
Anything less is just dirty brown water.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 12, 2021, 11:28:01 pm
Anything less is just dirty brown water.

or if you have ADHD like me brew anywhere between four minutes and one hour!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on July 08, 2021, 04:15:29 pm
Update! I officially ordered my coffee junk with a chunk of a stimulus check. I also bought some dried chicory for an additive.

co-FEE, co-FEE, co-FEE
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on July 08, 2021, 04:40:20 pm
Meanwhile I’m sitting here in a hotel room drinking Holiday Inn coffee that I’m pretty sure is over 5 hours old.

Moments like this are why I cannot call myself a coffee aficionado. Just an addict :P
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on July 19, 2021, 11:29:04 am
Greetings all:

I have now learned to make coffee (!!), specifically the dream of learning coldbrew, although admittedly the present concoction leaves an absolutely terrible taste in my mouth. It might be too concentrated. Or could be the beans, idk. It's my first bag o beans and I went for a blend that is as boring as it is locally popular.

I did have the specific experience recently of buying a $5 latte at the grocery store and thinking: "No, my coffee is better than this. Why would I buy this, when mine is so much better." That is pretty good for a person who is still on their first bag.

So far the only implements that have arrived are 1. the French press and 2. a stainless steel gooseneck kettle. The time that I took to research both really paid off. They were within my budget, and turned out to be better designed than I expected and easy to use. Plus, the gooseneck kettle cost $60 less than the similar gooseneck kettle with no interior plastic that my parents sprung for some time ago. Good job Veckle :)

Now my mom is asking for a demonstration of the French press when they visit next time, since my dad doesn't have the hang of the French press life :D


I think probably the next stage of the project will be getting ice cube trays so that I can freeze leftover coffee and/or just as a cold brew additive.

Q: "Vector, you're an adult! Why don't you have ice cube trays?!"

A: Well, I used to have some novelty silicon ones that made ice cubes in the shape of stars, but they were very difficult and annoying to use, as it turns out. And then I didn't get new ones because I pretty much never used to make iced drinks, but now I'm living in a hotter climate.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on September 14, 2021, 03:00:25 am
I don't know about the rest of you, but I love a cold coffee. A dash of milk in a freezing cup in the morning is exactly what I need.

I started preparing my coffee the night before. Pour boiling water into the french press and let it sit for a bit. Before I go to sleep, I put it in the fridge and in the morning push down the filter (if there's no resistance, I'll pull it back to agitate the coffee grounds). It's been a lovely experience and has made my coffee taste better than usual.

Is it possible to "oversteep" coffee like tea? How am I changing the flavor by doing this?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on September 14, 2021, 11:43:57 am
Coldbrew doesn't do it for me personally. The bitterness of the coffee lingers strong with coldbrew. I like the way the flavors and aromas mingle when it's hot. They seem to separate out when it's cold.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on September 14, 2021, 01:59:50 pm
The only way I like my coffee cold is when it is mixed in a espresso martini (no, there's no martini in that, it's just served in a martini glass for the looks)

Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Laterigrade on September 15, 2021, 01:02:16 am
Vector, don’t get addicted. This is advice you haven’t asked for, but don’t do it.
I’ve got a friend who’s all-but addicted to coffee — he has to have at least a cup or day, or he suffers crippling headaches and worse. I mean, he basically goes through coffee withdrawal. Have it, but not too much.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on September 15, 2021, 11:12:53 am
For another perspective, I drink between 6 and 9 cups a day, and when I go an entire day without caffeine, I *don't* get crippling headaches. /shrug
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 15, 2021, 11:33:10 am
I advise y'all to take caffeine breaks--one to two week periods without having a cup. This'll reset your levels.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on September 15, 2021, 11:36:23 am
I probably should, can't remember the last time I didn't have coffee for any real period of time.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 15, 2021, 11:40:53 am
I probably should, can't remember the last time I didn't have coffee for any real period of time.

Honestly it's nice, I do it regularly--the first cup back is always fire.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 15, 2021, 11:42:00 pm
I advise y'all to take caffeine breaks--one to two week periods without having a cup. This'll reset your levels.
Why would anyone do anything so silly?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on September 16, 2021, 12:14:39 am
Urist, at this point, the only thing keeping me vertical is coffee.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on September 16, 2021, 05:53:52 am
You could try a gyroscope
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on September 16, 2021, 06:05:30 am
You could try a gyroscope

Don't like the taste.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 16, 2021, 06:57:43 pm
Urist, at this point, the only thing keeping me vertical is coffee.

"Cheers bro, I'll drink [coffee] to that!"
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on September 16, 2021, 07:30:34 pm
TBH, drinking my regular brew after not having it for a week and getting heart palpitations and shaking from it doesn't sound like a good cup of coffee to me :P I kinda like my set level where it is, where I can drink quite a bit and be fine. But I do probably need a break. It's probably jacked up my sleep habits for a long time.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on September 17, 2021, 12:28:08 am
I drink One French Press's worth of coldbrew every one or two days (sixteen ounces), largely for the thrill of "I, Veckle, am Having a Treat!"

My caffeine consumption is all over the place but I mostly take it as an antidepressant, LOL. Along with my daily dose of antidepressants in the pill form. And my biking commute.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Laterigrade on September 19, 2021, 12:10:41 am
For another perspective, I drink between 6 and 9 cups a day, and when I go an entire day without caffeine, I *don't* get crippling headaches. /shrug
Huh. Maybe you’ve had so much that your system is permanently full of it, and even when you’re not having it, it races through your veins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: anewaname on September 19, 2021, 09:45:48 am
My take on coffee is that it is best to drink it without adding sugar or creams, so my body doesn't get the idea to crave coffee when I haven't eaten recently and blood sugar is low. Because of this, my body is very specific with two different messages, "get me caffeine now or it will hurt" and "some coffee would be nice in the digestive tract". But adding stuff to coffee happens often enough, probably one third of the time... sugars, spices, chocolate.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: None on September 19, 2021, 03:04:45 pm
Oh god, I'm hopelessly physically addicted to coffee. I'm starting to suffer by ten in the morning if I haven't had a cuppa. Granted, I'm more of a 4-6 cups kind of person (according to the coffee pot, not the mug), but that's largely on account of being a slight person in general.

My local coffee shop knows me well enough to have the 'bottomless mug' ready when I stumble in bleary-eyed, which is super flattering and maybe 5% sad about my habits in general, but generally speaking, 'going for coffee' is the treat, even if I can make the same or better coffee at home.

I gotta figure out your coldbrew french press tech, Vec, 'specially since we're losing daylight on hot weather over here!
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Bralbaard on September 23, 2021, 03:06:06 am
When I was not yet working from home (pre-covid) I consumed large amounts of coffee. The machine was to close to my desk, I guess. Coffee consumption has plummeted since, to 0-2 cups a day.
Coffee does not really seem to have much of an effect on me physically. It at least does not seem to do anything of note to make me more alert or awake, and I can easily go without.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: delphonso on September 23, 2021, 03:38:01 am
I actually have attempted to cut down - unfortunately "down" is about 3 cups a day. I'm pretty steady at 3 right now - so I'll try to cut that down to only a morning and midday cup. The withdrawals are just headaches and general weariness, but I have to assume 3 cups+ a day is doing a number on my organs.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: ChairmanPoo on September 24, 2021, 03:02:57 pm
My take on coffee is that it is best to drink it without adding sugar or creams, so my body doesn't get the idea to crave coffee when I haven't eaten recently and blood sugar is low. Because of this, my body is very specific with two different messages, "get me caffeine now or it will hurt" and "some coffee would be nice in the digestive tract". But adding stuff to coffee happens often enough, probably one third of the time... sugars, spices, chocolate.
My take on coffee is that it should be drunk with nothing, that it's heresy to add anything more than a few drops of milk, and that the only reason to add those drops of milk is that your coffee is shit, you have no other coffee available, and you need the milk to make it drinkable
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on September 24, 2021, 03:30:47 pm
Quote
My take on coffee is that it should be drunk with nothing, that it's heresy to add anything more than a few drops of milk

Sounds like a doctrinal inconsistency.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: martinuzz on September 27, 2021, 06:54:32 am
I only drink my espresso black. Normal coffee gets cream and sugar, because it's nice.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Magmacube_tr on October 26, 2021, 08:02:28 am
i dink inst cofi
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on October 26, 2021, 12:55:18 pm
My friend is roasting about a cup of beans for me. Hopefully I can get him to tell me how to do it when he brings them.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 28, 2021, 12:10:28 am
My friend is roasting about a cup of beans for me. Hopefully I can get him to tell me how to do it when he brings them.

I think a fairly common thing is to roast fresh beans in a pan on the stove! I dont know much else as I've never found fresh beans to try that out.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Egan_BW on October 28, 2021, 12:24:21 am
Coffee is a nice way to have a creamy sugary drink. Anyone who disagrees probably just doesn't know what's good in life.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: McTraveller on January 02, 2022, 07:20:11 pm
Anyone know the trick to making good cappuccino foam?  Watching online videos doesn't help. At first I thought it was because I was using 1% milk, so I went up to 2% and still seemed no good.  Do I need to use whole milk? Cream?

Do I just have terrible technique?
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on January 02, 2022, 10:17:46 pm
What are you using as a foaming tool?

Also, whole milk should be used I think :)
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Rose on January 03, 2022, 02:42:00 am
You definitely need to use the entire milk.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: McTraveller on January 03, 2022, 07:45:08 am
I'm using the steam-based cappuccino wand on the espresso machine I got my wife for Christmas.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Vector on January 03, 2022, 02:23:27 pm
Well, check instructions. But I agree with Rose.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: nenjin on January 03, 2022, 04:33:02 pm
You can use non-whole milk, but yes, for best results, use whole milk.

Other things you can check: adequate temperature, adequate pressure. I drink caps every day and I think you start low in the container and gradually work your way up to the top.

Then again I get it all over the place. Apparently you can have "dry foam" which is really light and fluffy, or "wet foam" which is basically just somewhat frothy milk.
Title: Re: coffee
Post by: Reudh on January 27, 2022, 01:29:22 am
Awww hell yeah this thread is 100% my jam. I'm a huge coffee nerd, love me some wacky coffees. It's part of living in Melbourne, Australia, I guess.

Anyone know the trick to making good cappuccino foam?  Watching online videos doesn't help. At first I thought it was because I was using 1% milk, so I went up to 2% and still seemed no good.  Do I need to use whole milk? Cream?

Do I just have terrible technique?

When using non-whole milk - frothing milk relies on protein and fat content. The less casein that is present in the milk, the poorer quality the frothed milk will come out as heated casein stabilises the air bubbles introduced by steaming. Most typical full cream or skim milk has enough protein content to stabilise the milk foam. Some "barista quality" milk is sold with added casein to improve the texture of the milk when it is heated.

As to fat content -

Fat content in milk also can cause impacts to frothing quality. Above 40C heat (usually you want to aim to get milk to about 60-65C) the lipids in milk melt. It's thought that the fat content helps act as a barrier between the stabilised protein-air bubbles and the milk liquid itself; otherwise you'd end up with coalesced milk bubbles (and therefore, no foam).

If you're learning how to froth milk for the first time, it is probably easiest to start with high fat content milk like full cream milk, or skim milk. 1-2% fat content milk will probably foam somewhat, assuming it has normal protein quantity, but the mouthfeel will be worse due to the fat content not preventing bubbles in the foam from coalescing.

Let's talk about technique. Using a typical steam wand, there is something of an art to foaming milk properly.

Like Nenjin said - start low in the milk jug and slowly work your way up into the top of the milk. Don't contact the bottom of the milk jug - this doesn't do much for the milk and might just scorch the milk surrounding the contact point rather than making steam bubbles.

Lattes have less foam than a cappucino, so you don't want to send your wand as far down to the bottom. The more volume of milk that is exposed to the steam wand, the more foam will be produced.
A good ratio to keep in mind is that a cappucino is roughly 30:40:30 espresso:heated milk:milk foam, while lattes (at least, not american lattes) are more like 30:55:15 espresso:heated milk:milk foam.

I have tonnes of coffee equipment, love making all sorts of stuff. Had a shot at making nitro cold brew a few months back, but it stalled as my shitty housemate stole my nitrous canisters to huff instead. That's another story.