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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Staalo on September 28, 2021, 04:53:36 pm

Title: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on September 28, 2021, 04:53:36 pm
Six (out of 28 total) of my militiadwarves just came back from an ordinary razing mission as holy men of various religious orders. Halfway into the mission, several back-to-back notification windows popped up:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When they came back I also found out they had detached themselves from their squads and came back as ordinary civilians. They can be re-drafted and they are otherwise normal citizens, except of course the outrageous titles.

So what happened here? Did the game glitch somehow? Did they all have a sudden epiphany on the way back? Were they somehow recognized as defenders of faith as they took part of a raid against an enemy of the church?
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: delphonso on September 28, 2021, 07:28:11 pm
They all chose to multiclass in Cleric. Totally normal given the benefits in 5E.

Oh wait - nevermind.

Yeah, I would guess the fort just happened to elect these six as their priests (which happens occasionally to dwarves (in my experience) with high social skills). Are all of these religions present in your fort with temples and more than 10 followers?

The real question is, why do your military dwarves have high social stats?

[addendum:]
I just recalled something like this happening to someone else - I believe their dwarves inherited royal titles just about as soon as they left the map, which suggests something going on with world activation. Not sure where I read that, though.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on September 29, 2021, 12:10:28 am
None of these religions have their own temples in my fort. The following might be strong enough for some, but so far they just haven't been requested. The dwarves in question also aren't very socially connected. They are all so-called "blank" dwarves; non-historical migrants with no backgrounds or social relations besides their god, which of course might be a contributing factor.

Before the fateful mission they were all ordinary members of their creed and casual to average worshippers of their chosen god. They also all happen to be monotheistic with no other objects of worship.

Some of the faiths involved haven't had a high priest for few years due to constant warfare and death in this world. On the other hand some others seem to hand out titles like candy and already had dozens of high priests before this incident.

It's a mystery. For all I know, these guys just looted the titles during their mission.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Quarque on September 29, 2021, 04:25:25 am
Quote from: delphonso on September 28, 2021, 07:28:11 pm
They all chose to multiclass in Cleric. Totally normal given the benefits in 5E.

:D
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: delphonso on September 29, 2021, 04:49:51 am
Is your civ low on population? If your civ only has a hillock or something, this may have just been the game dolling out titles like it does with king or queen with a dying civ.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on September 29, 2021, 05:24:41 am
No, dwarves are actually the most populous race here (despite the world being in the Age of Goblins for some reason), and my civ has several sites and thousands of members. The king is healthy and his succession secure.

It can't be that the original title holders died all at once and passed them to my warriors, either; the notifications were about election, not inheritance. I've sometimes seen title inheritance happen during raids earlier.

Ah, the hell with it. I'm going to play along; I assigned all six warrior priests into a whole new paladin/cleric/holy warrior squad and I'm going to aim for a Templar theme with this fortress. Gods will it!

I'm going to imagine they'll go to war shouting the names of their various deities:
Quote
"Forward, brothers and sisters! Gods will it! FOR LIM!"
"FOR BER!"
"FOR KODOR!"
"FOR ERTAL!"
"FOR... uh... IDGAG THE ACE FATHER!"
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Immortal-D on September 29, 2021, 03:46:37 pm
Just be grateful you have relatively respective names.  I don't think your enemies would take you seriously if your Dorfs charged into battle shouting praise for 'The Bust of Coveting' :-\
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on September 29, 2021, 04:13:28 pm
Yes, this civ seems to have lucked out in that sense. Even the one with the awkward name sounds like a DOOM cheatcode, which of course immediately associates with omnipotence and holiness.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: delphonso on September 29, 2021, 07:33:41 pm
Quote from: Staalo on September 29, 2021, 05:24:41 am
Ah, the hell with it. I'm going to play along

The perfect response to weird stuff DF throws at you.

Honestly if someone showed up calling themselves the "Holy Legend" and the "Sacred Dawn", I'd just surrender immediately.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on September 30, 2021, 12:51:08 pm
Outpost liaison brought the latest news: looks like these newly appointed holy men "replaced" previous title holders... who according to Legends died centuries ago.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Apparently their religions had been without leaders for up to 700 years before the game woke up to the fact, seemingly triggered by that one raiding mission.

Missing from this list is our Holy Legend Tobul whose cult already had dozens of other Holy Legends scattered around the world. Maybe adding one more wasn't newsworthy enough.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: DwarfStar on September 30, 2021, 09:00:07 pm
Were there temples present at the site they raided? Maybe the temples at the site had been abandoned due to not being used after the site was conquered, and your dwarves were the first to set foot in them for all those years?
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on October 01, 2021, 04:01:50 am
No, Plaitdoom was a perfectly unremarkable dark pits with no temples or other structures. It was barely even worth attacking but since we're at war and it was right in the middle of my satellite hillocks, it had to go.

Although now that I look at the Legends, earlier in this war (12 years ago) the same goblin civ conquered a fortress which did have temples for most of those religions. Last of the high priests of one religion were killed in that battle as well. This might be related somehow.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Hans Lemurson on October 02, 2021, 04:48:28 am
Did that war happen before or after the founding of your fortress?
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on October 02, 2021, 10:31:09 am
Let's see... this war started one year after the founding, so it's all post-worldgen stuff. So far the fighting has been mostly one-sided: that raid to Plaitdoom was the first battle my civ actually was on the attacking side. One more thing that might or might not have something to do with all this.

In further news, just as the year changed after a fought off winter siege, two of the newest recruits suddenly also gained high priest status:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These two had just grown to adulthood this autumn and had experienced their first siege. For some reason they're both worshipping gods from a foreign civ's pantheon, and have been members of religions related to those gods since birth.

Ah well, two new members for the Templar squad then. Gods will it!
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on October 06, 2021, 07:05:49 am
A pattern seems to be emerging... each military action my troops participate in will be rewarded with religious titles for one or more militiadwarves.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That makes twelve of them. Sooner or later my fortress will be inhabited entirely by high-ranking clergy. I have no idea what's going on.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: delphonso on October 06, 2021, 07:11:41 am
Did....did DF implement crusades?
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Egan_BW on October 06, 2021, 08:34:48 am
use this methods to make whole fort clerics
armok wills it
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: FantasticDorf on October 06, 2021, 09:19:10 am
Perhaps since the leaders had died, electivity works in mysterious ways, and then each dwarf nominated the other down the tree?

Id split the save, then retire & open legends mode (leaving the other fortress save intact to keep playing at) in order to have a look at particular sects, or maybe ask someone to bring in a script who can give out names to who EXACTLY is making the decisions since you're consistently getting new clergy or if its some sort of null that can choose anybody
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Staalo on October 06, 2021, 11:59:43 am
Yes, I've been running frequent Legends dumps since this first happened, just to see what's happening inside these sects. So far there's no common theme between them. Some religions have had no leadership and only few followers for centuries. Some are doing very well and are granting high priest titles left and right for no apparent reason. Some religions aren't even from my civilization, but for some reason my fortress-born kids have been their members from birth.

There is also nothing common between the title recipients, outside of them being members of the sects in question and being militiadwarves who have recently seen action. Some are the only members of their sect in the fortress, but not all of them.

Now that I think of it, this whole thing began when I started retaliating against the invading goblin civilization, The Terror of Fogs. Raiding necromancer towers earlier didn't trigger it, nor did missions against the other hostile (human) civilization, The Confederacy of Hermits. I have to test this a bit more to see if only fighting goblins will grant titles from now on.

I don't think the concept of holy war has been implemented in DF... or has it? I'm starting to have doubts.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Paaaad on October 06, 2021, 02:49:10 pm
Well, looking through the old devlogs on the front page, I have found reference to religious military orders being implemented, on 1/30/19... Swear I remember hearing something about at least sites fighting over religious reasons- God of Life Vs. God of Death for example- but I don't know where that was.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: FantasticDorf on October 06, 2021, 05:50:57 pm
Quote from: Paaaad on October 06, 2021, 02:49:10 pm
Well, looking through the old devlogs on the front page, I have found reference to religious military orders being implemented, on 1/30/19... Swear I remember hearing something about at least sites fighting over religious reasons- God of Life Vs. God of Death for example- but I don't know where that was.

Spheres do definitely have a effect, i've seen a clown related to fire take offence to the local river worshipping elves for instance as a casus belli but it largely depends on said creature and the existing framework. Quietust also mined out some information from 40d df in the area of spheres with their effects on temple architecture and habitual details.

Fire is the most predictable out of the lot, lots of putting to the stake.
Title: Re: Militiadwarves turn into high priests during a raid
Post by: Iamblichos on October 23, 2021, 08:52:44 pm
This was very enlightening, because the same happened to me but with noble titles.  My warriors went off the map and as soon as they returned, three of them became barons of various other forts in my civ and one became a count.  I ended up having to retire the fort just because of the constant nonstop demands and foolishness of that large of a noble presence.