Post by: FallacyofUrist on October 24, 2021, 12:22:50 pm
This has two major implications for us of Bay 12 Mafia.
1: We need to find a new source of archiveable, easy-to-use private communication.
2: A large part of our historic and notable games is contained within the various private chats. With Quicktopic shutting down, those will be erased. We need to figure out a way to save that data and store it in an accessible location.
Post by: webadict on October 24, 2021, 12:57:45 pm
As for preservation, we can use a variety of things, from image hosting to pastebin.
Post by: Vector on October 24, 2021, 04:28:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on October 24, 2021, 06:52:45 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on October 24, 2021, 07:10:28 pm
Post by: Shakerag on October 25, 2021, 08:33:19 am
Post by: Skynet on October 25, 2021, 08:57:44 am
Post by: TricMagic on October 25, 2021, 09:37:21 am
Spoiler: Links (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mephansteras on October 27, 2021, 10:47:30 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 02, 2021, 10:01:12 am
This probably has a couple random non-mafia stuff as well.
Not sure of a good way to preserve online easily without just downloading the html files.
Post by: heydude6 on November 08, 2021, 02:15:08 am
Anyway, I'll be archiving that as well as other games. I'm a foolish optimist who wants to archive the quicktopic of every single game on this forum. In a week or two I'll tell you how much progress I actually made. Then I might adjust my priorities.
We're also gonna have to figure out a method of hosting this.
This really sucks no matter how you put it.
Quick notes based on early efforts:
-Initial testing with wayback machine failed. You get the first page, but none of the buttons work. What makes it worse though is that quicktopic buttons somehow manage to navigate through a page without changing the link, so you can't even archive all of the pages individually. Shame, it would have solved the hosting issues.
-Using Quicktopic's print page feature in the bottom-left corner gives you a pdf of the topic in "all messages" mode. This gives you all of the information needed for a game. It is adequate. Will need to find a way to host.
-New Breakthrough, you can switch the quicktopic page to "all messages" mode and then click the print "Show printable page". This link actually changes the URL, and thus can be pasted into the Wayback machine and be saved properly. I tested it and wayback lets you see the print preview of the page! The final link is incredibly long, but this is a method I consider "complete".
EDIT:
Important note: You have to immediately click "Show printable page", if you change any of the settings then wayback fails to archive the page for some reason. This poses a problem for multi-page quicktopics. The solution though is to simply click the "All messages" button before you click the "print" button. Then immediately click "Show printable page" like usual.
-Wayback machine is not searchable though, so it's important to keep a copy of the links after you archive them. Thankfully, links are easy to host. You can host them on these very forums. The utopian in me imagines a day when someone makes a bot moderator that crawls through this board and replaces the old quick-topic links with the new wayback ones.
Anyway, that's all I have for now. I'm gonna try to do as many of these as possible in the next couple of weeks. There are around 650 games here in total so hopefully Wayback doesn't get mad at me for making so many of these. I'll report any issues I find.
Post by: TolyK on November 08, 2021, 05:21:58 am
Oh no - the KYOSN chats. ;(
Post by: Skynet on November 08, 2021, 06:53:35 am
Anyway, that's all I have for now. I'm gonna try to do as many of these as possible in the next couple of weeks. There are around 650 games here in total so hopefully Wayback doesn't get mad at me for making so many of these. I'll report any issues I find.Thanks heydude6; this idea is far more better than what I was thinking (which was essentially downloading a copy of each quicktopic's "print page" PDF). Let me know what links you have already archived...perhaps we could divide up the load so that Wayback sees this as two people uploading stuff instead one person uploading stuff? Perhaps they won't get as annoyed that way?
EDIT: Alternatively, maybe Wayback just has a cooldown mechanism, which may mean that saving 650 pages may very well be doable.
Post by: Knightwing64 on November 08, 2021, 07:26:51 am
Post by: TolyK on November 08, 2021, 07:42:05 am
Wayback only shows the last page of comments, which isn't very long. Trying to click "all messages" doesn't work for me.
Post by: Vector on November 08, 2021, 12:42:35 pm
Posting to show my interest in joining the archival efforts. Certain standout games are missing from the notable games archive, like Vector's masterpiece The Lonely Prince: He Who Shall Serve (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128261.msg4387210#msg4387210) (also known as princess mafia). I swear it used to be there cause I can't imagine how else I could have discovered it.
My games used to be linked in my sig. I have three in that series: Ex Cathedra, The Lonely Prince, and Iron Diadem.
If you helped save my games it would really save my bacon. Thank you for helping.
Post by: heydude6 on November 08, 2021, 02:28:56 pm
Wayback only shows the last page of comments, which isn't very long. Trying to click "all messages" doesn't work for me.
That's why you don't archive the quicktopic itself, but the print preview you get when you click the "print" button in the bottom left corner.
The button actually takes you to a dialogue box when you click it. You have to then click "Show printable page" to get to the actual webpage you need to save.
Important note: You have to immediately click "Show printable page", if you change any of the settings then wayback fails to archive the page for some reason. This poses a problem for multi-page quicktopics. The solution though is to simply click the "All messages" button before you click the "print" button. The immediately click "Show printable page" like usual.
Anyway, I thought you guys would like to see a practical example of what this looks like. I decided to archive Town of Salem mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173051.0) since it was hosted on traditional FG&RP rather than the mafia sub and thus it could be easily overlooked.
Spoiler: Let's save some screenspace (click to show/hide)
I hosted these links by editing my post, which happened to be the final one on that thread (thus avoiding necro). This the last bit of archiving I'm going to do for the moment. I have a University project I need to finish by Wednesday. Once I officially begin my efforts though, I'll only be saving the links on my computer, not hosting them (except perhaps on Github). Time is limited and writing posts like that wastes it. I'll focus on hosting after I've saved everything.
There are going to be issues though. Nobody posted the Town of Salem Deadchat link in the main thread. I had to archive and post my own link from the PMs. This wasn't publicly available info to begin with, but I think this is a good proof of the fact that not everything is going to be saved unfortunately. We must soldier on despite this though.
I'll report any issues like that in some sort of weekly report. Maybe some volunteers can contact former players?
perhaps we could divide up the load so that Wayback sees this as two people uploading stuff instead one person uploading stuff?
I don't think Wayback is going to care about that. Their limit is something like 15 archives per minute per user which isn't something I think we're going to breach. Dividing up the load sounds good though, I was hoping to be able to do something like that. I'll be starting from the back of the subforum (ie. page 33), and you can start from the front (ie. page 1). I'll have to come up with a more sophisticated method of dividing up the work if we get more volunteers though.
Post by: Toaster on November 08, 2021, 11:47:53 pm
If that doesn't work, below is spoiled a complete list of mine:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is this helpful? I'm pretty sure there's nothing in there that needed to be kept secret any more.
Post by: TolyK on November 09, 2021, 05:19:58 am
I can't even access my own created QuickTopic chats. :/
KYOSN on WayBack:
Dead Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055127/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/U732tWkSVuYF)
Mafia Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055124/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/LewxCGe2kVh)
Cult Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055128/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/J2BPvqKp3ND4h)
Shakerag Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055123/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/aM9zw7hjP6br)
Observer Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055123/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DEumT8D3Z8G)
Mason Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055128/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DcLgGAbZcSD4j)
The "print" trick shows this:
Code: [Select]
Hrm.
The Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.
Post by: heydude6 on November 09, 2021, 05:27:21 am
The "print" trick shows this:Code: [Select]Hrm.
The Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.
Had that issue too. That's why I posted this:
Important note: You have to immediately click "Show printable page", if you change any of the settings then wayback fails to archive the page for some reason. This poses a problem for multi-page quicktopics. The solution though is to simply click the "All messages" button before you click the "print" button. Then immediately click "Show printable page" like usual.
Did you continue to get that error despite following this advice? Regardless, I should probably add this to my first post as well.
Post by: TolyK on November 09, 2021, 07:32:34 am
Also, if we want to host the messages themselves, we could probably host them on some OneDrive or cloud storage somewhere (I already host a public Google Cloud blob, which is pennies every month, so...). We just need a specified format, or a script to scrape the chats from the topic (though I think QT has anti-bot measures...).
Post by: Skynet on November 28, 2021, 09:44:11 am
Quicktopic will shut down on Saturday December 11th, which is two weeks from now. We should probably try to save all Quicktopics by the end of this week, I guess?
Post by: heydude6 on November 28, 2021, 10:25:11 am
There are a few caveats though. The oldest page is only half as long as the rest, and quicktopic was not widespread back then. Only Meph's Paranormal games used it in that era, so I didn't have to spend as much time actually using the Wayback machine. It's unknown if I will be able to maintain this rate as bay12 mafia matures, but I also started in the late evening and wasn't working as efficiently as I could have, so it's a crapshoot.
Despite these challenges, I still see this as evidence of archival being doable. With two people working on the case, they only have to do 5 days of work each which is very achievable. At the end, I guess it just comes down whether I'm doing this alone or not...
Post by: Skynet on November 28, 2021, 11:03:20 am
The first Bay12Forums page has been backed up, and I also archived the Skynet's Seduction quicktopics as well. (EDIT: Also, the first "U, Robot" game and the CYOM4 - Parakeetkinchat chat. There's some issue with 2uwv6EA2CNe, the quicktopic ID for CYOM4's mafia chat, though...it's still not accessible after 38 minutes. This is going to annoy me for a while.)
I also came up with an automated process as well for this situation. I installed this Python command-line tool (https://github.com/agude/wayback-machine-archiver ), and then writing a quick Ruby script to use this command-line tool:
Code: [Select]
quicktopic_ids = ["p65kRWLUC6a", "qH9b47QBY9u"] #These were ids for Skynet's Seduction quicktopics. Replace with them with the ids you want to backup.
quicktopic_ids.each do |id|
full_url = "\"https://quicktopic.com/53/H/#{id}?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page\"" #necessary to add quotation marks so that bash can properly interpret this URL as a string
#system("echo #{full_url}")
puts "We're attempting an archive of #{full_url}"
system("archiver #{full_url}")
puts "Archive complete...moving onto new archive!"
puts "..."
end
Note that for each ID, the script will pause for a bit (since it's submitting the link for you) before printing out an exception message like "ERROR:root:404 Client Error: NOT FOUND for url: https://web.archive.org/web/20211128153251/https://quicktopic.com/53/H/p65kRWLUC6a?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page" .
That exception message is due to the lag situation - the page has been successfully submitted and crawled by Internet Archive, but the page itself is not accessible on Internet Archive. I've seen this issue even when I was manually saving these links, so I don't think it's a big deal - but it is annoying, and I do have to later on manually confirm that these links actually do work, just to assure myself that the backup was successful.
Even if one prefers to use the manual process, the fact that the URL template:
Code: [Select]
https://quicktopic.com/53/H/[INSERT_ID_HERE]?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
actually works means that you can skip the "click on the Show printable page button" step - all you really need now is the quicktopic ID.
Post by: heydude6 on November 28, 2021, 11:25:03 am
How would I go about configuring it to work on my own computer? I've never used a tool like this so you'll have to explain every step to me.
Post by: Skynet on November 28, 2021, 01:37:18 pm
Step 1: Install wayback-machine-archiver:
Code: [Select]
pip3 install wayback-machine-archiverStep 2: Confirm that the tool is installed:
Code: [Select]
archiver --helpStep 3 (Optional): Check to see if the tool works by passing in the URL of a page you wanted archived...
Code: [Select]
archiver "https://quicktopic.com/53/H/[INSERT_ID_HERE]?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page"Step 4: Copy and paste the code in a *.rb file (let's call it "file.rb") and then execute that code using
Code: [Select]
ruby file.rb***Since configuration is a rather time-consuming and annoying process, I decided instead to upload the script onto repl.it, a code-sharing website that already had the configuration set up for you. You can see it here: https://replit.com/@tra38/ArchiverBackup#main.rb
Main difference is that instead of using a Python package, I instead used a native Ruby gem - "wayback_archiver" (https://github.com/buren/wayback_archiver) - so I wouldn't need to depend on Python, and could rely solely on Ruby. This was because I couldn't find a way to use both Ruby and Python at the same time...or rather, couldn't find a way to quickly do it. A short-and-dirty hack (using wayback_archiver) was good enough. I tested that script by archiving Gnosia's dead chat and scum chat.
To be able to use the repl.it's script, you just need to make an account on the site. Then you can "fork" the codebase, making the modifications as appropriate and then clicking on Run to execute the code.
P.S.: I also ran the repl.it's script with CYOMA's mafia chat, and it looks like that chat is now finally publicly accessible.
P.P.S: Catch with this new updated script is that you don't get the web.archive.org URL when the archive process is complete (though considering that URL is buried within a bunch of spurious error messages, maybe that's probably a benefit rather than a malus). You would likely need to do a manually confirmation on web.archive.org.
Post by: heydude6 on November 28, 2021, 01:43:32 pm
Post by: Skynet on November 28, 2021, 01:58:14 pm
Assuming that web.archive.org has a snapshot available for that page, it will let you know how many snapshots it has and gives you links each of them, organized by the month, day, and year of the snapshot. I was able to verify that the Gnosia's scumchat was saved, for instance, by visiting https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://quicktopic.com/53/H/dqvc7nwNYxHM?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page .
If web.archive.org doesn't have a snapshot available, it will give you the option of saving that page (though it may reject your ability to save if it already did a snapshot within the last 45 minutes).
Post by: heydude6 on November 28, 2021, 02:14:31 pm
Post by: Reverie on November 28, 2021, 02:20:57 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on November 28, 2021, 02:29:38 pm
Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash
for id in $@ ; do url="https://quicktopic.com/53/H/$id?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page" ; echo "archiving $url" ; archiver $url ; echo "archived" ; donewhich doesn't even need such a crappy language as Ruby :P
Post by: webadict on November 28, 2021, 04:11:00 pm
I agree with webadict, Discord is robust and ubiquitous enough to serve quicktopic's purpose, maybe except with one caveat. If we use a shared server with hidden channels for each game, there is still the question of its transparency of user activity. Simply being a member there could be a tell, for example.This could be circumvented partially: Membership is a requirement of playing. If you don't join, you don't play. Easy peasy.
Post by: Vector on November 28, 2021, 10:56:22 pm
Post by: Skynet on December 04, 2021, 11:37:41 pm
EDIT: I have found an issue in my script - the quicktopic for https://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/gDy5hwicixg is, well, 46/H instead of 53/H, so my script breaks when trying to archive this quicktopic. This is somewhat okay, most urls uses 53/H and the ones that don't, well, they can be manually saved. But it's still very annoying to deal with. This is why manual verification is important when dealing with this Quicktopic archival.
Post by: heydude6 on December 05, 2021, 03:52:42 am
I'll tell you how it goes. I've been really dying to get back to this.
Post by: Skynet on December 05, 2021, 12:00:24 pm
I noticed that some URLs now are prefixed with 52/H instead of 53/H. So since the prefix varies, and probably varies much more than I expected, I modified the script so you need to pass in two parameters - the "id" and the "prefix" number that comes before the id (you don't need to pass in the "/H" though; I don't think that varies, though I was wrong before).
That way, we can better handle URLs that don't use 53/H. (My guess is that the prefixes auto increment in some fashion, so lower prefixes are associated with older quicktopics. It's just a guess though.)
To test the modified script out, I saved a few quicktopics on Page 4:
- Not-So-Beginner Mafia, Scum Chat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211205165217/https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rAysr5HCqA4S?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Not-So-Beginner Mafia, Dead Chat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211205165328/https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rjaQeZauAhcd?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Proc Gen Mafia 2, Scum Chat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211205165044/https://quicktopic.com/52/H/hcRMnEgTg6S?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Proc Gen Mafia 2, Spectator Longue - https://web.archive.org/web/20211205165010/https://quicktopic.com/52/H/qadqFvdUtVLG?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
And it worked. And I also tested it with 53/H links as well. Let's hope this will be the last modification we'll have to do.
I also modified the script to generate a link to the web.archive.org snapshots, simply as a good way to quickly validate the save. It's not exactly clickable within the repl.it's interface, so you'd still have to copy and paste. But at least it's all there for you to look at.
Quote
I plan on posting a progress report on Monday. I wanna see if I can get 9 additional pages done that day. I did three pages in a single evening, so I'm hoping to be able to triple my output if I dedicate an entire day to it.I look forward to reading this progress report. It's a long slog, but if we can get this done, we will successfully preserve an important part of Bay12Mafia's history.
Post by: Vector on December 06, 2021, 02:53:23 am
Post by: TolyK on December 06, 2021, 07:55:35 am
Post by: Skynet on December 06, 2021, 09:48:31 am
- this QuickTopic (https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Y35R7bkyX2npR) found in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171844.msg7881164#msg7881164) of "Fallacy's BYOR 4: We're Done Here" doesn't seem to work at all - it gives me a white screen if I visit the page directly.
- I found no quicktopics at all in Maximum Spin's Dark Secret game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530), despite the fact that they're multiple scum factions. IcyTea31 even mentioned speaking in a quicktopic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530.msg7853695;topicseen#msg7853695), just never bothered linking to it. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
When I get more free time later this evening, I'll probably start processing the quicktopics in the Notable Games Archive, so that even if we aren't able to archive everything, we'll at least archive a significant chunk of our history.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 06, 2021, 12:43:31 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 06, 2021, 12:44:13 pm
To reply to skynet's query's, I was part of "Fallacy's BYOR 4". The quicktopic link Persus posted didn't work even back then. I don't know how the PM quote function failed to copy the quicktopic link properly, but it thankfully isn't the biggest loss.
If a thread is missing quicktopic links, it might be a good idea to PM former game members who are still active on the forums and ask them if they could dig through their PMs and fish them up. The PM Search (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=pm;sa=search) function is quite useful for that. I PMed Kashyyk trying to get access to the scum chat for Kingmaker mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=41723.0) and though it turned out that game didn't have a scum chat despite having a dead chat, Kashyyk was still have happy to help and it was thanks to his search that we even found out there was no scum quicktopic.
I might be a wise idea to gather a list of multiple inquiries though and then PM the person. They might get annoyed if we PMed them over-and-over again for each game they happened to be a part in.
NINJAED
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 06, 2021, 02:01:33 pm
- I found no quicktopics at all in Maximum Spin's Dark Secret game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530), despite the fact that they're multiple scum factions. IcyTea31 even mentioned speaking in a quicktopic (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171530.msg7853695;topicseen#msg7853695), just never bothered linking to it. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.Yeah, I just had no idea people would, like, want those afterward. I didn't even keep copies of the PMs I sent out. Hold on though, lemme grep my browser profiles, I might have them in the history of whichever one I used still.
Hey okay I think I found all five of them. I mean, I definitely found five, I think that's all of them. Just so we're clear, it wasn't so much "multiple scum factions" as "everyone was in a scum faction", so there was one for each arbitrarily-assigned pair of players except for secret player webadict.
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RERwFJ8Vj9R9Z
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RWuvggEJvbm
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/wUUFpM7fcQdg
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JpGKASm73d6wb
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/X3wUcrX3GCTD
Man, I should never have even been allowed to use a computer much less run mafia
ETAA:
Egan and Hector13 (https://web.archive.org/web/20211206194336/https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RERwFJ8Vj9R9Z?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=95&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page)
Fallacy and Deus Asmoth (https://web.archive.org/web/20211206194514/https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/RWuvggEJvbm?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=36&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page)
IcyTea31 and Doomchild (https://web.archive.org/web/20211206194713/https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/wUUFpM7fcQdg?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=28&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page)
randomgenericusername and Tricmagic (https://web.archive.org/web/20211206194607/https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/JpGKASm73d6wb?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=74&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page)
Thanatos Russ and rockeater (https://web.archive.org/web/20211206194626/https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/X3wUcrX3GCTD?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=40&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page)
There, now nobody can say I didn't help!
Post by: heydude6 on December 06, 2021, 10:55:03 pm
I hope others will be as helpful as you were if I need to ask them to dig up some old quicktopics.
Post by: heydude6 on December 08, 2021, 12:25:45 am
That Monday crap I was talking about, complete garbage! Ate up my entire life well into Tuesday. I wasn't even able to finish the task before the deadline, but at least I'll get part marks for what I did do. Anyway, I absolutely HATED getting that curveball thrown at me, but it's over now, for better or for worse.
Tomorrow I'll finally be able to start working on this!
And that's all I'll say cause otherwise I won't be able to contain my rage.
Post by: Skynet on December 08, 2021, 12:42:43 am
It's okay heydude6, real life has intervened to cause problems for everyone.
Right now, we have 5 pages by me + 3 pages by you = 8 pages. Considering we have 33 pages to archive entirely, we only have 24% of the forum archived. Assuming I get 1 page archived per day, and you gets 9 pages archived per day, we would be able to process 10 pages per day in total. So after Wednesday, we would have 18 pages archived, and after Thursday, we would have 28 pages archived. I will not be able to do anything on Friday, but if you can do work on Friday, then you would have archived all of the publicly available quicktopics on this forum.
That being said, doing work on Friday is cutting it close, especially since I think the site will turn off entirely on Saturday (I could be wrong, and maybe they'll turn off the site at the end of Saturday...but I rather assume the worst than hope for the best). Another curveball could shut down the whole project entirely. But it is doable, and as for the stuff we can't get, that's okay...at least most data is still accessible.
If you can do less, then we need to adjust our strategy. And if it turns out you can do more, that's even better!
Also, I updated the repl.it's script to produce a direct, clickable link to Internet Archive. Turns out that repl.it cannot make links like
Code: [Select]
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://quicktopic.com/53/H/dqvc7nwNYxHM?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
clickable...but it can make links like
Code: [Select]
https://web.archive.org/web/https://quicktopic.com/53/H/dqvc7nwNYxHM?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
clickable. The former links shows all snapshots available, while the latter link gives you the most recent snapshot by default. Since we just want to make sure that a snapshot is available, I am now generating links using the latter format. This now makes validating the archival process much more simpler, which is good because I've seen some sporadic failures that needed to be resolved (mostly by attempting to save the link again).
---
Also, while going through the Notable Games Archive, I found this stuff:
No quicktopic found for Not-So-Beginner Mafia: Panda Edition (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.0) (by Pandarsenic).
Dead chat quicktopic was found on Paranormal Mafia - Round 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48208.0) (by Meph), but no scum chat.
No quicktopic found for Time Travel Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39735.0) (by Servant Corps)
- Servant Corps was an old account of mine, so in theory, I could try to recover the quicktopic for this game, if I remember my old account's information. I'll see what I can do about that, but I want to focus more on backing stuff up.
EDIT: My priority right now is to try to save what topics are publicly available, and then if there is time, reach out to those who may have access to quicktopics that are not available to the public. Some quicktopics may not be possible to archive, at least within the limited time we have, and that's okay. Let's save what we can.
Post by: Vector on December 08, 2021, 03:45:07 am
I'm going to prioritize the NGA because I really think it's the best of B12, but after that I can just go a page at a time.
Post by: heydude6 on December 08, 2021, 10:07:35 am
*snip*
Thanks. I needed to hear that.
Since being shy has bitten me in the ass in the past I need to ask a stupid question. I noticed you mentioned trying to archive Time Travel Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39735.0). That's a very old game and I stumbled upon it while archiving. As far as I could tell, it didn't have a quicktopic, but there was zero evidence for or against this. Since you were the past GM, are you certain that it had a quicktopic? Due to TTM's age, that would have made you the first GM after Mephansteras to use quicktopic.
Now for the actual stupid question though. I assume you stumbled up Time Travel mafia while trying to archive the notable games section? That wasn't part of your normal archiving attempts? I ask because I've been archiving games from oldest to newest and I assume you're archiving newest to oldest. I'm pretty certain this is the case, but like I said before, being shy has bitten me in the ass before. I will interpret no response as affirmation that nothing weird is going on.
EDIT: To Vector:
Since I don't want work to be unnecessarily repeated, I think I should share my opinion on which pages I think you should do. Skynet is doing newest to oldest, and I'm doing oldest to newest. As a result, I think you should start somewhere in the middle. Well actually I think you should start by archiving your own games first (I'll then skip archiving the games where you are the GM) and then starting at the middle. Specifically I'm thinking page 19 should be a starting point, then 18, 17 etc. That is, head towards the newer games since I think we'd intersect quite soon if you headed towards me.
Make sure you don't just save the games on wayback, but also keep the archive links in a word document somewhere. There's no point archiving the links if you can't find them afterwards.
Post by: Vector on December 08, 2021, 04:15:06 pm
Since I don't want work to be unnecessarily repeated, I think I should share my opinion on which pages I think you should do. Skynet is doing newest to oldest, and I'm doing oldest to newest. As a result, I think you should start somewhere in the middle. Well actually I think you should start by archiving your own games first (I'll then skip archiving the games where you are the GM) and then starting at the middle. Specifically I'm thinking page 19 should be a starting point, then 18, 17 etc. That is, head towards the newer games since I think we'd intersect quite soon if you headed towards me.
Make sure you don't just save the games on wayback, but also keep the archive links in a word document somewhere. There's no point archiving the links if you can't find them afterwards.
Thanks, this is actually extremely helpful direction to have.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 08, 2021, 04:23:46 pm
Feel free to PM me with anything else missing from my games. I'll likely notice it faster that way, and it's better to get stuff earlier rather than later given the time limit.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 08, 2021, 04:31:04 pm
I don't actually have time to keep doing this, but I'll help now and then as I can.
Post by: Skynet on December 09, 2021, 12:55:07 am
Since being shy has bitten me in the ass in the past I need to ask a stupid question. I noticed you mentioned trying to archive Time Travel Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39735.0). That's a very old game and I stumbled upon it while archiving. As far as I could tell, it didn't have a quicktopic, but there was zero evidence for or against this. Since you were the past GM, are you certain that it had a quicktopic? Due to TTM's age, that would have made you the first GM after Mephansteras to use quicktopic.
I am not certain that I did a quicktopic for this topic. I just assumed it to be the case, but it's possibly not true. After all, early on in this forum's history, it was enough for people to communicate via PMs, so long as they forward the PM off to the moderator. In any event, I am unable to gain access to my old account, so even if I used quicktopic (which I'm beginning to doubt, as the word "quicktopic" never even appeared in the thread to begin with), we will not be able to find the exact topic I used there.
Quote
Now for the actual stupid question though. I assume you stumbled up Time Travel mafia while trying to archive the notable games section? That wasn't part of your normal archiving attempts? I ask because I've been archiving games from oldest to newest and I assume you're archiving newest to oldest. I'm pretty certain this is the case, but like I said before, being shy has bitten me in the ass before. I will interpret no response as affirmation that nothing weird is going on.
I stumbled upon Time Travel mafia when archiving the notable game section. It was not part of the normal archiving attempts.
Also, heydude6, while I haven't gotten good records of all the backed-up archived links, the fact that I'm saving the links in a specific fashion means that I'll probably be able to reconstruct the Wayback Machine links if necessary. I'll make sure to keep an accurate record of all future links I save in Wayback Machine though.
EDIT: Page 6 is mostly saved, though I'm still encountering data lag. heydude6, how many pages were you able to save today? I think that will give us a good idea of what needs to be done on Thursday.
Post by: heydude6 on December 09, 2021, 03:18:44 am
So to start with the basics, I was only able to do 6 pages today. And I see myself only being able to do around that amount for the forseeable future, though I think I will be consistent with this. This sucks for many reasons, but long story short, it would be nice to have more volunteers. Just show your interest in the thread and I'll give you directions like for Vector. Otherwise, we should begin having a serious conversation about what should be cut to save time. This wouldn't have been a problem if I could have started on Monday...
Most of the stuff in my notes was just fun stuff, like who was the first GM to use quicktopic after Mephansteras, but there are some serious things here as well. The most serious I think is my list of games that are missing public quicktopics. Whenever such a game came up, I would look through the players and figure out which of them would have the link and whether they were still active. Here are some names:
JoshuaFH was the GM of Weirdo Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=41279.msg739191#msg739191). A scum chat was posted by Vector years after the game ended, but no dead chat surfaced and all players who died that game are no longer on the forum. The only option is to contact the GM himself who is still very active. Joshua was also the GM of the unfinished Weirdo mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=41816.0). Normally I don't pay attention to abandoned games, but this one made it quite far so I think it's worth recovering and preserving the quicktopics for those.
Persus13. When Skynet talked about the Mason chat in the aborted Fallacy's BYOR 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=171844.0) not working, I brushed it off as being unimportant. Turns out that Persus13 is still very active, so it won't hurt to ask if he can find it. My current theory is that the original link in the role PM was broken, so Persus Pmed the mod, and got a working one that he never posted.
Mephansteras. Meph basically Pioneered the use of quicktopics, and the protocol of posting them after a game ends, but even he makes mistakes. In Paranormal 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40671.0) he had two allied aliens active which usually implies that they have a chat together that was never posted. The role names also made it seem like the Disciples of Truth were a mason pair, but no chat was posted. That last one was just speculation though, I need Meph to verify it. Additionally, I would like Meph to provide the quicktopics for the aborted Paranormal 4 -SCRATCH- (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35342.0). It didn't last very long, but the deadchat in that game somehow had knock-on effects on the do-over game and as a result I believe the record should be preserved. You might as well provide a link to the Dopp topic at that point as well.
Webadict was around since the very beginning, and has both hosted and played in a lot of games, making him a treasure trove of exclusive information. It's unclear when he switched to quicktopic, but he was definitely slow to do so. In a perfect world I would ask him about each and every one the games he hosted to try to learn if there was a hidden quicktopic I had simply not gotten ahold of, but I am certain it would annoy the heck out of him. Plus he genuinely might not be able to remember.
What really gave me a mindfuck though was this line:
Webadict:1) There is not a dead chat, because no one tends to use them with my games.
1) is there a dead chat?
In the timeline I constructed, this was the first game where Webadict used quicktopics at all, but here he implied that he had ran multiple games with quicktopics. Enough actually to decide that a dead chat wasn't worth including. Which then prompts the question: "Where are those games?". Did Colour Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42742.0) have a quick topic all along? Was it maybe Vote mafia (1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39061.0), 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39985.0), 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40936.0))? Could it be Dwarf fortress mafia (1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30843.0), 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32387.0), 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34942.0)) of all things?! I need answers dammit! :'(
Regardless, there are smaller mysteries I need web's help with. I need him to tell me if BYOR-The ExKirby Version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44520.0) had a dead chat since he died in that one. I need him to post the scum quicktopic of BYOR Mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44802.0) since he had already been using quicktopics by that point and I doubt he would abandon them for this game. And finally, I want to know if any of the games he hosted in that era had dead chats, because the quote implies that he did (and it's better than asking for each game individually).
--
Vector's Bastard Mafia Game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46294.0) definitely had a deadchat though. Though Vector was not the game's original mod, the GM definitely game them extra information and they are the last hope of acquiring that piece of missing information. The GM and the dead players have all left the forum.
Unfortunately I can't say there's any hope of recovering quicktopics for Second Chance Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46569.0). All of the players who could have known something have left the forum. inteuniso, one of the scum disappeared back in February, but stopped posting a few years ago. The only silver lining was that the GM came from an older era, and may have simply been one of the few not to use quicktopic. There may have been nothing lost, bu he didn't mention Pms either.
While doing this work, I learned a lot about the ways you can screw this job up. You have to be very careful, and a creative thinker to make sure you don't miss anything. I almost omitted the scum chat from Kill Webadict now (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43695.msg826277#msg826277) for example since it was only posted within the role PM. It would have been lost forever if I didn't go back to check after I discovered the more prominently placed scumchat of the sequel sequel (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44803.msg867169#msg867169).
Another wierd thing that happened was that in Bay12 mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42096.0), the very first post of the scum quicktopic was not visible in "all messages" mode. I had to create seperate archive of just that first post alongside the regular archive. It may have been acceptable to just let it perish, but I refuse to accept defeat. My point is, always scroll all the way to the bottom when you're archiving your QTs. Who knows what you'll miss. This bug only happened once btw <_<
I share these stories because I want them to be learning experiences for all those who volunteer to help. Not every topic is going to have all of the links compiled in one convenient place, so it's up to you to go out of your way to search for them. I always read the role Pms to check for masons for that reason. But with some of the paranormal games, I had to go further than that. Paranormal 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=36305.0) and its 4 mason pairs was a good example of that. No mention of that in the role PMs.
Its scary to rely on others to maintain that same standard of scrutiny, but I've got no choice. Just be careful guys.
Anyway I'm too tired to end this gracefully. I'll PM the bolded parties in the morning. Since a lot of people are intent on archiving the NGA, I've provided a list of all of the games from it that I archived while doing my usual process. If it's crossed out, it means you can skip it cause I already got it.
This is the Notable Games Archive, where we keep all of Bay12's best rounds of Mafia. The rounds that, due to some high-quality aspect, deserve to be remembered. Since the forum is pretty old, there's a lot of great games here. If you're a newbie, you should probably start with the Vanilla games, though everything else is awesome, too.
If you've just finished playing, reading, or running a particularly excellent game, come to this thread and nominate it! This is the place to squawk about it for future generations of mafia players.Spoiler: Vanilla and Beginner's Games (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Classic setups (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Bring Your Own Role (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Crazy closed setups (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Bastard Mods (click to show/hide)
I've saved you guys a decent chunk of work.
FakeEdit: And I finished this at 3. Next report won't be as big as this, don't worry.
Post by: webadict on December 09, 2021, 06:06:57 am
Uuuuggggghhhhh, I actually am gonna have a hard time with this one since I deleted most of my quicktopics, but lemme posr what I can find...
Post by: webadict on December 09, 2021, 06:09:59 am
Post by: webadict on December 09, 2021, 06:47:48 am
Webadict was around since the very beginning, and has both hosted and played in a lot of games, making him a treasure trove of exclusive information. It's unclear when he switched to quicktopic, but he was definitely slow to do so. In a perfect world I would ask him about each and every one the games he hosted to try to learn if there was a hidden quicktopic I had simply not gotten ahold of, but I am certain it would annoy the heck out of him. Plus he genuinely might not be able to remember.Mysteries that I can solve:
What really gave me a mindfuck though was this line:Webadict:1) There is not a dead chat, because no one tends to use them with my games.
1) is there a dead chat?
In the timeline I constructed, this was the first game where Webadict used quicktopics at all, but here he implied that he had ran multiple games with quicktopics. Enough actually to decide that a dead chat wasn't worth including. Which then prompts the question: "Where are those games?". Did Colour Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=42742.0) have a quick topic all along? Was it maybe Vote mafia (1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39061.0), 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=39985.0), 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40936.0))? Could it be Dwarf fortress mafia (1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30843.0), 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32387.0), 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34942.0)) of all things?! I need answers dammit! :'(
Regardless, there are smaller mysteries I need web's help with. I need him to tell me if BYOR-The ExKirby Version (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44520.0) had a dead chat since he died in that one. I need him to post the scum quicktopic of BYOR Mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=44802.0) since he had already been using quicktopics by that point and I doubt he would abandon them for this game. And finally, I want to know if any of the games he hosted in that era had dead chats, because the quote implies that he did (and it's better than asking for each game individually).
BYOR-The ExKirby Version does not appear to have had a deadchat, or if it did, I was never sent it. That was a weird game.
Vote Mafia 3 had a deadchat but not a scum Quicktopic. Not sure why!
Vote Mafia 3 DeadChat: https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/hJPQyJC2993j
It doesn't look like anything else before that had QuickTopics before that, so that must've been the earliest adoption. Likely, a few games afterward had deadchats, but... Well, look at BYOR2's deadchat, and you'll know why I said that.
BYOR2 Scumchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/gNuyajvx8Vry
BYOR2 Deadchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/UJS8Z4mBbQJ5Z
BYOR2 almost had a Cultchat, but the Cultists died before it was used because I was always lazy.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 09, 2021, 10:40:26 am
Mephansteras. Meph basically Pioneered the use of quicktopics, and the protocol of posting them after a game ends, but even he makes mistakes. In Paranormal 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=40671.0) he had two allied aliens active which usually implies that they have a chat together that was never posted. The role names also made it seem like the Disciples of Truth were a mason pair, but no chat was posted. That last one was just speculation though, I need Meph to verify it. Additionally, I would like Meph to provide the quicktopics for the aborted Paranormal 4 -SCRATCH- (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=35342.0). It didn't last very long, but the deadchat in that game somehow had knock-on effects on the do-over game and as a result I believe the record should be preserved. You might as well provide a link to the Dopp topic at that point as well.
[/spoiler]
Paranormal 4 - Take 1 - Dopps: https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8nMQv2cCDTNHG
Paranormal 4 - Take 1 - Dead: https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/PSPwMucQj49
Looks like for Paranormal 9 I only have quicktopics for Dopps and Dead. Checking over the game, none of the other roles actually had reason to know about one another. Disciple of Truth is actually a one-shot Day Cop role, so not masons. And the two aliens were on different teams, so no quickchat for them either.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 09, 2021, 11:42:17 am
Then the other one: https://web.archive.org/web/20211209164151/https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8nMQv2cCDTNHG?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=20&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
Post by: heydude6 on December 09, 2021, 12:06:36 pm
Mysteries that I can solve:This was really helpful Webadict. Thank you.
BYOR-The ExKirby Version does not appear to have had a deadchat, or if it did, I was never sent it. That was a weird game.
Vote Mafia 3 had a deadchat but not a scum Quicktopic. Not sure why!
Vote Mafia 3 DeadChat: https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/hJPQyJC2993j
It doesn't look like anything else before that had QuickTopics before that, so that must've been the earliest adoption. Likely, a few games afterward had deadchats, but... Well, look at BYOR2's deadchat, and you'll know why I said that.
BYOR2 Scumchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/gNuyajvx8Vry
BYOR2 Deadchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/UJS8Z4mBbQJ5Z
BYOR2 almost had a Cultchat, but the Cultists died before it was used because I was always lazy.
And the two aliens were on different teams, so no quickchat for them either.
---------------
BloodBeard
You are an Alien Operative. Sent here with the Exterminator, Nuke, to purge this town of the Doppelgangers and everything their corruption has touched. Each night you may choose to use one of your abilities to aid Nuke in his quest. You may use each ability only once.
Here is the list of abilities you have access to
* Determine a player's Race
* Determine a player's Role
* Perform a Night Kill on a player
* Role-Block a player
* Act as a Vengful Bodyguard for the Alien.
Should the Exterminator fall, you must do your best to complete the job yourself. Should he have any unused tech, you may take it for yourself.
--
NUKE9.13
You are an Alien Exterminator of the Vangalan Order of the Holy Suns. These doppelgangers that have been created are an abomination before the gods, and they and everything they have touched must be purged. You must make your way to this human town and destroy everything there. You will have to work in stealth, however, as there are forces working in the area that would stop you should they detect your presence.
To aid you in your quest, you have been trained in the use of the Mind Shield discipline. In addition, you have been granted two tech slots. Choose wisely, and may the Lords of the Infinite Suns guide you to victory.
....
Mr.Person (Alien)
You are an Alien Doppelganger Hunter. Your client has hired you to bring him back one of these doppelgangers for his private collection. Once during the game you may select another player to abduct. You and that player are then removed from the game. If you captured a doppelganger, you win. Otherwise, you lose. To aid you in this, you have been granted one tech slot item.
PM me your tech choice before the end of day 1.
There were 3 aliens though, not two. I need the chat between Bloodbeard and NUKE9.13 if there is one.
Well, Redwarrior, actually I saw a coordinated attack on webadict - Bloodbeard used his block on you (thinking you'd be protecting webadict, I guess) while Nuke took out webadict. Does the Alien Exterminator automatically get a mindshield or was it by chance?
I'd be inclined to say that it was probably a better choice to take out webadict - a confirmed towny webadict means that all the town roles can work together against the scum.
This one was very short so I just archived the base url: https://web.archive.org/web/20211209164020/https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/PSPwMucQj49
Then the other one: https://web.archive.org/web/20211209164151/https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/8nMQv2cCDTNHG?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=20&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
Thank you Spin
Post by: Mephansteras on December 09, 2021, 12:43:57 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 09, 2021, 02:20:16 pm
Let me know if I can help at all another way! I'm pretty busy for the next week or so, so I don't think I have time to help archive, but I'm happy to dig up old role PMs if need be.
Post by: heydude6 on December 09, 2021, 07:41:52 pm
As a result, I want to make an announcement.
If Skynet sticks to his rate, as well as quits on Friday like he said he would, then he would have finished pages 1-7 by the end of today. By they end of today, I will have finished pages 33-19.
That leaves us with 12 pages that need to be archived by the end of Friday, not counting whatever work Vector accomplishes today.
I will certainly be able to do my 6 like I always have, but that leaves another 6 unclaimed and unaccounted for. Some of that will certainly be done by Vector, but I wonder if that will be enough.
Long story short. There are 6 pages I need volunteers to archive between Thursday and Friday. Vector will archive a currently unknown amount.
For me, it takes on average 2 hours to manually archive a single page, though I'm a very thorough guy. So if 6 volunteers are willing to give up 2 hours of their time. Or 3 volunteers are willing to give up 2 hours today and 2 hours tomorrow, then we can do this!
Hell we can even have a situation where two volunteers spend two hours today, 4 hours tomorrow! And one of them is probably Vector. In that situation we literally only need one more person to be able to complete this archive! Will you be the one?
The least painful option I think is 3 volunteers (one of them being Vector), each doing one page Thursday, and Friday.
Anyway, what do you say? Have I swayed anybody? You will be a hero if you do this.
If I have, post a reply in this thread. I'll immediately give you a page number to work on (and an optional bonus page) and we can get to preserving this sub-forum.
In light of this new analysis though, I want to revise the directions I gave to Vector last time. Start at page 10 and work towards the oldest (ie. do 10, then 11, 12 etc). I want to see how much Skynet does before I start assigning people to pages 8 and 9.
Post by: Skynet on December 10, 2021, 02:38:51 am
If I do get time, I'll try to archive one more page, but I will not make any promises on that line - assume I "quit" until I post otherwise. I would appreciate any help we can get, in the hopes that we can archive everything by Friday.
Of course, Quicktopic could decide to stay open on Saturday...but I rather not want to rely on such an event happening, because after all, it's supposed to shut down on Saturday, and it's unclear whether it means exactly on the beginning of Saturday or at the end of it. If Quicktopic does stays open on Saturday, then heydude6 can archive the remaining pages on that day, and everything is saved, more or less.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 03:25:37 am
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 06:28:48 am
The result though is this: I now only need 3 pages to be archived volunteers. The newer pages are quicker to archive since you don't have to hunt around for missing chats as much.
I have managed to message or get into contact with everyone I mentioned in my Day 1 report, except for Vector regarding Vector's Bastard Mafia Game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46294.0). JoshuaFH did not reply to my PM, though he was online today, so I assume he doesn't want to help save Weirdo Mafia. Sad, but nothing you can do about it.
I know Webadict just mentioned his technical issues, but unfortunately there are many missing chats that only he has access to that I'd like to get ahold of. Even if Webadict could only provide a few, I'd be incredibly grateful for that. Due to the amount of games he's involved in, it would leave quite a big hole if we let the quicktopics disappear.
Spoiler: The Webadict request list (click to show/hide)
Since I probably won't be able to make a big request like this at the end of Friday, I'll need to think of a way to ask for missing quicktopic links in a timely matter. I can probably just post requests in the thread/PM as they come up, but I think it is necessary to be a bit proactive with Webadict's games. So I skimmed through the rest of them to see if I found any issues
Spoiler: Proactive Webadict (click to show/hide)
Anyway, this was a lot to put onto one person and I feel incredibly bad about doing it, but it needed to be said for the sake of our archival efforts. Every bit helps
Meph, could you confirm whether Cybrid Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48944.0) had a dead chat since you died in it?
I Pmed Toaster to ask him for the imperial quicktopic chat in Cybrid Mafia II - Welcome to hell, the glitches have landed. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68954.0). Manipulating was apparently a core part of his strategy in that game.
Here is some stuff that is probably lost forever.
The Dead chat of Hangman - Game Over - Is it hanged or hung? Mafia win! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53088.0) assuming it has one
Anything to with Bay 12 Mafia - Night Three - Low Resolution - 2 replacements needed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57012.0). Gm is absent and topic is locked. No lead on who could be scum. It wasn't a notable game, but it was a big one. A shame
Don't know what to do about BYOR: Choices (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=50703.0).
I have a little bit of hope for this one, BYOT mafia: Night 2 - 13/19 alive - Delicious (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65277.0) A lot of the players here are still around. One might be former scum and could provide a scum topic
A notable game as well unfortunately Not-So-Beginner Mafia: Panda Edition [Day 2, 7/9] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.0)
On a final note, I had a lot of fun with this and I hope everyone else did, too. Lastly, this link to the Google Doc I used for this game has all the PMs and day flavor unless I cocked up making it accessible:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ap5KzVfSPGdSdGVsRXZSMklEZnQ1R3hqU3k4ZFBZM2c&hl=en&authkey=CLSZzvcM
Yes you did Panda. It may have been accessible in the past, but it isn't anymore.
Better to let your game die than let the thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65727.0) be locked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65277.0) forever (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57425.0).
Yes indeed Toaster. Yes indeed.
Good night everyone. See you in the morning.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 07:27:51 am
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 08:04:26 am
http://quicktopic.com/48/H/iD6auixSaT636
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/NXcNGAEWj9v2f
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/BFZKZJ4LaQC
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/pQEZWbSdnx44
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/VmeeKypRrcy7d
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/ArJ5bMbUuqPY
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/KcFqbWhAR3DpF
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/3kN7XdiXaKSn
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/cLREQ6it23Af
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ipD3ykXEK2S
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/MNFsmWXkemEg
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/daq4YnhBM4tck
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/d37HVuPJ8U2/
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/mPzaYHPcKwB
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8djK272um5Eu
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/5EL2WWwCJ66
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/BXVtQMAdrvssH
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wdySNKdWSQU
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/yxkrEwQcp4GS
http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/abM6gPPH5ZS
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tKQxpiKTcWK
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/Avn9URXxQcmrH
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/mDEMBj9DdGVyr
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ATBcxsfaVXNW
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/QtZw3ZhZLmX
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/niSBJVJE6gx8
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/Sz9hRbEEpBU
http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/TTJGDPdZLkfte
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/kqi7Kwmqmn6k
Post by: ToonyMan on December 10, 2021, 08:24:43 am
Bay 12 Mafia - I was town and don't have anything, game stalled and died
BYOT Mafia - I was town and don't have anything, Pandar runs things weird
I could ask Leafsnail today if he could trowl his PMs for Hangman and Bay 12 Mafia, although that depends on if he's busy or feels like doing it.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 08:27:36 am
I'm almost done with a script to do this automagically. I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier...
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 08:57:07 am
Code: [Select]
Loading all subforum threads...
100.0% [================================================>] 33/ 33 eta [00:00]
Found 652 threads.
Reading PMs...
Reading forum posts...
7.1% [===> ] 46/652 eta [1:05:54]
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 09:12:20 am
I was scum in at least one of those, possibly more. I'll get links after work for all those.
The scumchat was posted in the spreadsheet linked for the notable game NSBM, which Vector appears to have quoted and therefore might have the link!
Post by: Skynet on December 10, 2021, 09:24:53 am
You know what, instead of manually internet archiving, we could just... download all the pages, no?
I think the issue then is trying to upload the HTML pages somewhere so they'd be accessible via a simple URL (bay12quick.com/_____), so no one needs to download the whole zip file. And if Internet Archive is providing free web hosting, why not use that?
However, yeah, a Python script would probably be better than whatever we were doing for the last few days. There is a Python package that does upload URLs to Internet Archive - https://github.com/agude/wayback-machine-archiver .
Perhaps you could submit all the URLs to them? Granted, most of these URLs have already been archived manually or semi-manually already, so you just need to archive 3 pages...which, I think, are pages 8-10? But if it's faster to just submit all the quicktopic URLs again so be it.
I guess you could configure your script to only scrape quicktopic URLs within that range, and then format them in the proper template -
Code: [Select]
https://quicktopic.com/[PREFIX]/H/[ID]?o=0&range=all&print=1&submit=Show+printable+pageOf course, you need to generate the URL anyway to properly acquire the full Quicktopic HTML, so it shouldn't be just hard to throw that URL off to Internet Archive as well.
Only catch is that you'll have to manually check to make sure the archival process have worked, because there's been situations where a page doesn't get archived, meaning you'd have to try again (so far, I've tried this manually, but presumably this could be done automatically if you can detect when it fails).
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 09:45:37 am
Then I add this suffix to the paths:
Code: [Select]
"?o=1&range=all&m1=1&mN=149&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page"
wayback-machine-archiver seems really cool, I'll try submitting to that in parallel. It mentions "submitting Github Pages" but I assume it will work for all pages.
Post by: Skynet on December 10, 2021, 09:46:07 am
Yep I'm currently getting all quicktopic urls ever mentioned anywhere in Bay12 Mafia history, and in my own PMs.
Then I add this suffix to the paths:Code: [Select]"?o=1&range=all&m1=1&mN=149&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page"
wayback-machine-archiver seems really cool, I'll try submitting to that in parallel. It mentions "submitting Github Pages" but I assume it will work for all pages.
It'll work for all pages.
EDIT: I'm a little concerned about the m1 and mN parameters. It's possible quicktopic ignores both of them when you write "range=all", but I have not tested that. So far, I omitted both m1 and mN parameters and saw no problems thus far.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 09:49:22 am
BTW, I eventually want to create a "viewer" that merges bay12forum posts and private communication (quicktopic or whatever later) into one readable thread, for maximum game enjoyment. :P
Should be relatively easy to do since we can already parse threads, though not necessarily in terms of building the viewer itself.
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 10:28:14 am
However, yeah, a Python script would probably be better than whatever we were doing for the last few days.
Having archived 18 pages, I have to disagree with this sentiment. The problem with scripts is that they aren’t complete substitutes for a human brain. A script won’t notice players talk about being masons, in a game where no mason quicktopics were posted and then realize to contact someone to get that lost quicktopic.
The webadict section of my last post would not exist if I just used scripts to do my work. And that wouldn’t be a good thing.
I think the issue then is trying to upload the HTML pages somewhere so they'd be accessible via a simple URL (bay12quick.com/_____), so no one needs to download the whole zip file. And if Internet Archive is providing free web hosting, why not use that?
You’ve hit the nail on the head skynet. To give even more information, my final vision for how this archival process will go is that I want to give those who browse bay12 mafia games in the future, as seamless an experience as they enjoy now. To that extent, I was hoping to get Meph to agree to use his moderator powers to edit old links and replace them with new wayback machine links, so it would be like nothing ever happened. You could design a bot to do it.
I was hoping to announce this after all of my work has been done cause it’s hella ambitious (it needs more fanfare), but I don’t want people to doubt my current methods. Doing these edits will be a slow process, but the need won’t be as urgent this time. Just as long as it gets done eventually.
Anyway, it seems like I’m awake now. I’m gonna get back to work. It may not be as flashy as writing a script Tolyk, but with so few pages left, I think it’ll be better if you just publicly claimed a page in this thread and archived it by hand. Pages 10, 9, and 8 are up for grabs
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 02:50:46 pm
I found 716 quicktopic pages and saved them locally. They're missing styling elements, logos and such.
I'm also submitting them all to archive.org (using a modified version of the script, because the original script completely died when something failed).
If you can upload a .txt of all URLs you've worked through (not sure if you've all been keeping track) I can re-run the script several times, hours apart, to try to snapshot all of them.
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 03:39:18 pm
Anyway, while I'm here, here are some more games that are likely to be lost forever:
Scum chat of Vengeful Mafia 9: DAY 2: SCUM stumbles (4/5) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=92878.0)
Possible dead chat (may not have one) of Confusion Mafia | Day 3: Good luck. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89865.0)
These are not high priority btw. The highest Priority are the missing quicktopics in Webadict's games that I compiled in my last report. Since his games were popular and beloved by many, I want to save them. I'm worried that Web might not be able to help this time, but some of the other players might know something.
Also, I skipped ahead and archived all three of Vector's games. They are quite the gems and I want to make sure they aren't lost. I'm not sure if they still plan on helping us today.
EDIT: Well Hot Damn Web! If this was Reddit I'd give you a gold. I'll get to saving those now.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 03:42:23 pm
I know Webadict just mentioned his technical issues, but unfortunately there are many missing chats that only he has access to that I'd like to get ahold of. Even if Webadict could only provide a few, I'd be incredibly grateful for that. Due to the amount of games he's involved in, it would leave quite a big hole if we let the quicktopics disappear.Aztec MafiaSpoiler: The Webadict request list (click to show/hide)
Since I probably won't be able to make a big request like this at the end of Friday, I'll need to think of a way to ask for missing quicktopic links in a timely matter. I can probably just post requests in the thread/PM as they come up, but I think it is necessary to be a bit proactive with Webadict's games. So I skimmed through the rest of them to see if I found any issuesThere were only two thankfully.Spoiler: Proactive Webadict (click to show/hide)
Anyway, this was a lot to put onto one person and I feel incredibly bad about doing it, but it needed to be said for the sake of our archival efforts. Every bit helps
Here is some stuff that is probably lost forever.
The Dead chat of Hangman - Game Over - Is it hanged or hung? Mafia win! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53088.0) assuming it has one
Anything to with Bay 12 Mafia - Night Three - Low Resolution - 2 replacements needed (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57012.0). Gm is absent and topic is locked. No lead on who could be scum. It wasn't a notable game, but it was a big one. A shame
Don't know what to do about BYOR: Choices (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=50703.0).
I have a little bit of hope for this one, BYOT mafia: Night 2 - 13/19 alive - Delicious (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65277.0) A lot of the players here are still around. One might be former scum and could provide a scum topic
A notable game as well unfortunately Not-So-Beginner Mafia: Panda Edition [Day 2, 7/9] (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=79927.0)On a final note, I had a lot of fun with this and I hope everyone else did, too. Lastly, this link to the Google Doc I used for this game has all the PMs and day flavor unless I cocked up making it accessible:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ap5KzVfSPGdSdGVsRXZSMklEZnQ1R3hqU3k4ZFBZM2c&hl=en&authkey=CLSZzvcM
Yes you did Panda. It may have been accessible in the past, but it isn't anymore.Better to let your game die than let the thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65727.0) be locked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65277.0) forever (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57425.0).
Yes indeed Toaster. Yes indeed.
Good night everyone. See you in the morning.
Spaniard Chat: https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/qP2FirKULCpk
BYOR 3
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/x5hreYLv9tecJ
Vote Mafia: Special Edition
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/DpVbtr84Nq5n
Vote Mafia 6
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/NKzuRz32cUWy
Third Party 2 did not have any communication outside of the thread, I believe, as no cultchat exists that I found.
Vengeful Mafia 4
Mafiachat: https://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/yVhZ5VY8HpB
Beginner's Mafia XXI
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/Spqy5x6DzSdn
BYOR 6.3
Masonchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/iZmPZePZ3PHP
Deadchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/aEvDTjaAb57h
TP3 did NOT have a Serial Killer and SK-Ally Quicktopic, as far as my research has shown.
SBYOR
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/peiiKURvfQY9
KWN: Webadict Edition
Webchat: https://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/63qzSDyRdqua
Deadchat: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/KTTWA499pE2
There was no Cultchat.
Vote Mafia 8
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/YsycsqTS4iMC
LOST FOREVER BUT SAVED BY AWESOMENESS
BYOR:Choices
Mafiachat: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/FMseS6C8u7p9s
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 03:47:01 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 04:15:47 pm
I get a 403 forbidden for all QuickTopic URLs. Maybe because I'm in Eastern Europe?
I can't even access my own created QuickTopic chats. :/
KYOSN on WayBack:
Dead Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055127/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/U732tWkSVuYF)
Mafia Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055124/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/LewxCGe2kVh)
Cult Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055128/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/J2BPvqKp3ND4h)
Shakerag Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055123/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/aM9zw7hjP6br)
Observer Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055123/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DEumT8D3Z8G)
Mason Chat (http://web.archive.org/web/20180930055128/https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DcLgGAbZcSD4j)
Which wasn't very useful since you'd only be able to see the front page. You didn't do it our way because of this bug:
The "print" trick shows this:Code: [Select]Hrm.
The Wayback Machine has not archived that URL.
At the time, we didn't know that quicktopic will sometimes have a lag between archiving a post and making it viewable so we couldn't explain what went wrong. Now we know the cause of your issue. The "print trick" works, it's just that sometimes you have to wait a bit, but that time is thankfully able to be spent archiving other threads.
Have you been archiving your pages using the print trick since then? Sorry for the dumb question, I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page before leaving the stuff webadict posted in your hands.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 04:20:32 pm
Also, not a dumb question, it's a legit concern.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 10, 2021, 04:43:40 pm
https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/sKNHrJmuKf7
https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/yEjqrpmaNc2G
Hangman Mafia chat:
https://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/NgZJA4dw9Kb
e: I don't think this had a deadchat looking at my topics and PMs.
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 05:26:43 pm
I don't know if you have the time to directly archive a page, but I made an earlier report that listed some other "Lost forever games"
*snip*
It's very long, I wouldn't bother reading it, I just wonder if you can help with any of the following:
Dead chat of Weirdo mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=41816.0)
Dead chat of Vector's Bastard Mafia Game (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46294.0) if it exists
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that the quick topics you posted are for the original Bay12 mafia that's in the notable games thread. That one was archived succesfully. The one you see in the report is actually the ill-fated sequel. It may seem weird to try to recover the chats of dead games, but we're trying to save as much as we can.
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 05:42:13 pm
https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/7SUPQFjxGC2s
https://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/rYtxU5qTFCaPw
IIRC Neruz was b& a while back so we can't ask him directly.
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 05:47:47 pm
Dead chat of Weirdo mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=41816.0)
Try PMing JoshFH directly, he's active on the forum...
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 05:51:23 pm
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 05:52:58 pm
I don't really have the tech knowhow to save and host chats tbh and I am Tired. Where are we at this point with the project? Do we have the whole Notable Games Archive?
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 06:09:31 pm
This is the Notable Games Archive, where we keep all of Bay12's best rounds of Mafia. The rounds that, due to some high-quality aspect, deserve to be remembered. Since the forum is pretty old, there's a lot of great games here. If you're a newbie, you should probably start with the Vanilla games, though everything else is awesome, too.
If you've just finished playing, reading, or running a particularly excellent game, come to this thread and nominate it! This is the place to squawk about it for future generations of mafia players.Spoiler: Vanilla and Beginner's Games (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Classic setups (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Bring Your Own Role (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Crazy closed setups (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Bastard Mods (click to show/hide)
We've got most of them.
The tech know-how for archival is actually pretty simple. Let me give you an explanation in a double post.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 10, 2021, 06:29:23 pm
Mafia chat
https://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/kq5T24LuqAH
Dead chat
https://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/SsKbVu5BUi3q
Spoil spec
https://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/sUAtuVPG9jQ
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 06:32:43 pm
Step 1: Find the quicktopics.
Depending on the mod, this can be either very easy or somewhat annoying. Ideally the GM will post it all in a single post-game post, otherwise you might have to rely on the posts of other players to make up for the Mod's negligence. Making sure you find everything is more of an art than a science, but a few quick tips:
-Read the role list to figure out which factions are in play. Look for scum and dead chats, and cults and masons if applicable.
-Be wary of Bastard and role madness games because the tells for something like the existence of a mason group can be surprisingly subtle.
-Not every game has a dead chat
If you believe a certain chat exists, but a link is nowhere to be found, don't torture yourself. Write down the issue somewhere and crowdsource the problem to us
Step 2: Expand the quicktopic so that the all of the information is on a single page.
(You can skip this step if the quicktopic has 15 messages or less)
Normally QT only displays 15 messages at a time. That won't work for archival purposes. Here's how you fix that:
Switch the quicktopic page to "all messages" mode and then click the "print" button in the bottom left corner. You will then be taken to a new page. Click the big shiny "Show printable page" in the middle. You will be taken to a quicktopic page that looks very similar to the original expanded quicktopic, but it has a new URL.
Step 3: Go to Wayback machine and save it
Click this link (https://web.archive.org/save)
You will see a blank input box begging to be filled with something. Copy and paste the URL you got from Step 2 and click the "Save Page" button. You may get an error, but in that case you just try again. Eventually it will work.
When this happens you will be given a new link. It is a necessity that you save this somewhere, like in a word file. It will be difficult for you to find it again if you lose it. I recommend making a checklist actually
This link is the final archived link. If you click it, you will see a page like the orignal QT, but saved from the shutdown. Sometimes you will be taken to an error screen that says URL not found, but ignore it. Sometimes the Wayback machine takes some time to make the pages publicly visible. In a few minutes it will start working.
Make sure you view the page at some point to make sure nothing went wrong, like archiving the wrong chat (it's a mistake I made a few times).
And that's it. Not very hard. If anyone feels inspired by this tutorial, they should post in the thread and publicly claim pages 10, 9, or 8 and help us get this done before the deadline. It only takes around 2 hours to archive a single page's worth of threads, but it's for a good cause. If I do everything on my own, these are the pages that will almost certainly be left behind due to a lack of time. Even if you do just one, it makes a difference.
Ninajed
Thanks for the links Toony.
EDIT: They have now been archived
Post by: NJW2000 on December 10, 2021, 06:44:14 pm
Anyone got a precise time for the shutdown?
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 06:48:44 pm
Honestly, if it isn't too expensive, I'll look into minting NFTs to give out to everyone who played a critical role in this archival process. It's worth it.
EDIT: I hope I don't look like an idiot for saying that.
EDIT2: One year later. Yup I certainly did. Thank god I didn't actually follow through on that.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 07:12:45 pm
I've looked through:
- All forum posts until today.
- The latest posts in this thread, until today.
- All of my personal PMs.
And from all posts/PMs I've taken all URLs that look like QuickTopic URLs (either from text, or from the hyperlink).
This is currently 713 QuickTopic URLs.
I then converted the URLs to end with ?o=1&range=all, which selects all messages and sorts them from oldest to most recent (vs the default, which is recent to old).
I've downloaded 713 HTML pages onto my local PC, indexed by the MD5 hash of their expanded URL. The original URL is saved as a comment in the beginning of the HTML page, so we can easily find what the original URL was:
Code: [Select]
<!-- Original URL: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wdySNKdWSQU?o=1&range=all -->
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>BYOR 7 - Mafia Chat - QuickTopic free message board hosting</title>
The end result, as I've mentioned, is missing all images, and so looks pretty shitty. :P
I've also been submitting these to the internet archive, however it indeed often fails, so I've set it to retry continuously.
FWIW, I've manually submitted the KYOSN chats, which are probably my only noteworthy hosted games.
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/U732tWkSVuYF?o=1&range=all
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DcLgGAbZcSD4j?o=1&range=all
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/DEumT8D3Z8G?o=1&range=all
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/aM9zw7hjP6br?o=1&range=all
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/J2BPvqKp3ND4h?o=1&range=all
https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/LewxCGe2kVh?o=1&range=all
I also manually submitted the links Webadict sent earlier, just in case.
BTW, if someone forgot to save the links, we can get most of them back. I've saved all the actual QuickTopic links themselves posted everywhere on the forum, and also separately those from this thread. The archive.org URL can be constructed from that. In the best case, the thread URL itself was saved by hand. In an intermediate case, I can map the QuickTopic URL to the Bay12 thread URL. In the worst case, we'll just need to find the post in this thread.
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 10, 2021, 07:14:45 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122540.0 - Viva la Revolucion
- some kind of pregame-only scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211001533/https://quicktopic.com/50/H/9YKi9Uhw8Lu
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120520.0 - Mafia, Masons, and Hackers
- deadchat (apparently no scumchat) - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211001703/https://quicktopic.com/50/H/UQhd2w9xhxEF?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=45&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.0 - BM XXXVIII: Jackelope Bandits
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002046/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/iEYSi3FXCGk?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=71&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002153/https://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/ZB7LE3w2tYmJ?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=70&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119678.0 - Paranormal Mafia 22
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002359/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/ZMxJBGHNqFZ3?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=88&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002432/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/prDQugFGmPpi?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=118&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119041.0 - BYOR 11
- scumchat (no deadchat found - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002555/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/TEmX4ThSzm8M4?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=109&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117173.0 - BM XXXVII: Welcome to Zombo Mafia
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002847/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/wTHWW5EW74hP5?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=128&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211002924/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/KWsgqJWNasvq?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=175&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117245.0 - M E I N K A M P F : A Tale of Vainglourious Basterds
- Frogchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211003218/https://quicktopic.com/47/H/HwnCPiciMEfG?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=99&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Americachat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211003401/https://quicktopic.com/47/H/GLZYyTjf8TZVN?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=111&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Britchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211003520/https://quicktopic.com/47/H/iF4PKbbNYa2f?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=144&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Commiechat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211003829/https://quicktopic.com/47/H/cL6SumFyAwu?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=49&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- Deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211003949/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/iD6auixSaT636?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=43&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117205.0 - BYOR 10
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004136/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/RmmuL84eiX8LP?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=36&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004329/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/usvh8zUaiDLMh?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=31&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115758.0 - Bring Your Own Cards
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004618/https://quicktopic.com/48/H/95yrWdAit7Wt?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=121&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115529.0 - Rumble in the Necropolis
- wolfchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004655/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/9casdsYVaYf?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=120&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- witchchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004734/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/uL3Qd5Qx2eknt?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=94&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- templarchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211004945/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/rQtR4ZJRxmxuc?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=82&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- zombie uristchat? - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005251/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/3JHdwd4rRiAh
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115600.0 - BMXXXVI
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005543/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FGSrjgaFAMN?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=108&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005639/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FZq5H4iKyFFXe?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=24&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113809.0 - BYOLOLC
- deadchat (game apparently died, no scumchat seen) - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005712/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/DfxYiTS3xu523
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114444.0 - BYOR 9
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005748/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7HLkqCrrzu6?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=126&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005847/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/3nzW8iMDr4htV?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=219&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113813.0 - BM XXXV
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005912/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/fKR9ViEZHjmSU?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=96&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211005946/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/5EjczsKymt8E2?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=55&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113368.0 - Paranormal 21
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010006/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/3uVEW3WprqEt8?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=62&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010039/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/2CULP6XwDwtM?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=159&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113334.0 - Roguelike Mafia 5
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010111/https://quicktopic.com/48/H/6AgfmYzPqY2cF
- skchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010139/https://quicktopic.com/48/H/45ddTxdhj78h
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110494.0 - Beginner's Mafia XXXIV
- scumchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010215/https://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/qR7cjusYnCEiV?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=127&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
- deadchat - https://web.archive.org/web/20211211010310/https://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/bncaKCLLEVv?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=34&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
No obvious chats in Trust Mafia (special setup), Prince's Guard. Skipped some cancelled games. It'd be great if somebody could quickly double-check that I didn't miss any links.
Total time, a little under an hour.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 07:17:03 pm
Honestly, if it isn't too expensive, I'll look into minting NFTs to give out to everyone who played a critical role in this archival process. It's worth it.I think it's a bit more fitting to donate to the internet archive instead (https://archive.org/donate). I'll do that once QuickTopic is closed for good. :P
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 07:18:15 pm
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 07:23:05 pm
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 07:26:12 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 07:26:59 pm
Sorry but I have been on low sleep for a week. I don't have the brain cycles to do literally anything new right now.Get some sleep Vector, I'll tag in for you.
Post by: Vector on December 10, 2021, 07:34:06 pm
- scumchat, https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/gCnwWTw5NVVVH
- deadchat, https://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Q77nLpwa53UjE
One Night Werewolves Mafia! - died due to inactivity (link: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138567.0), no chats posted.
EDIT: thx Web. These are the games from page 9 where I haven't scraped chats yet:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138215.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140835.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139254.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137283.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138613.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137990.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135628.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138309.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137698.0
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138311.0
Post by: NJW2000 on December 10, 2021, 07:43:48 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'm doing this right.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 07:58:34 pm
I'm duplicating everything I could find on Page 8 starting from the end (though about half were already done, I assume due to my script or automatically from the extension, since nobody else was using my particular URL):
www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=20.140
However, archive.org is starting to limit me even more, I guess after thousands of requests... :P
I didn't find chats for:
KOTM 4 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137539.0
Paranormal 24 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147607.1500
CYOMafias http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.0
NJWedit: Ok, seems we got this from both angles.
Post by: NJW2000 on December 10, 2021, 08:06:07 pm
I'm down to Thick as Thieves, (and you're on your way to meet me, if I understood that correctly.)
Spoiler: more redundancy for page 8 (click to show/hide)
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2021, 08:13:36 pm
It's 2 AM here, so I'll go off for tonight. I will set the automatic archiver overnight to run on all threads it found, just in case there's some we missed by hand.
Good luck all. Hopefully we'll make it before they take it crashing down! Worst case, we'll have to re-host the chats somewhere.
Post by: NJW2000 on December 10, 2021, 08:18:03 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 08:20:43 pm
I'll keep on with page 8, this really isn't too bad. Posting the first eight here for redundancy, I have very clumsy fingers sometimes.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'm doing this right.
Looks good. The only way you're likely to screw up is if you don't find every chat in a given game, or you literally save the wrong thing into the wayback machine (can be easily prevented by double-checking).
All of your Gms have put their quicktopics in a single place so far, so your searching skills haven't been put to the test yet. Compare with Cybrid Mafia #4 - Game Ends (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106647.0). The GM only posts one chat initially, but there are actually 2 more that I have to search the thread to find. Sometimes, you'll notice something is missing, but aren't able to find it. At that point, you look into the thread and try to figure out if it's deliberately not there (eg. no scum chat when there's only 1 scum), or if it's something that people forgot to post. In that case you'll have to contact player's that were in that game to try to find it. You can just post your issue here though.
This was a bigger problem in older games. Incidents like that became less and less common as bay12 mafia matured.
Wait, I'm confused. Do I keep going with page 8, or have you got that covered?
Tolyk archives things in his own style. Supposedly his method is quicker, but I would recommend continuing with your page.
Also, vengeful mafia doesn't have deachats usually. Probably due to how small the playerbase is as well as how short they are. This is an example of the detective work I was talking about. It can really slow you down sometimes.
I've got to get back to work now.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 08:30:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 08:42:36 pm
Maybe there' some room to try to recover missing Quicktopics, but my own schedule is still quite tight.
Congrats guys.
I assume nobody wants to do page 11 for me? :P
Post by: NJW2000 on December 10, 2021, 09:07:08 pm
Spoiler: final redundancy (click to show/hide)
Going to check these. Afraid I can't shoulder any more, it's pretty late.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 09:15:44 pm
I assume nobody wants to do page 11 for me? :PI can do a few, but I'm still a bit busy. I sorta used up a lot of my spare time for Page 9, but if you give me a few, I'll do 'em.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 09:45:22 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 10:18:32 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 10:21:41 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 10:27:31 pm
Halfway done with 12. Why am I slower than you?I do repetitive items over and over again all the time. Also, I'm able to search "quicktopic" in the search bar for "this topic" and it always includes links to quicktopic.
Also, I'm working on the bottom of page 12.
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 10:47:43 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 10:48:11 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 10:52:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 11:04:15 pm
Thanks for doing this btw. Part of the reason why I suggested someone take on page 11 was because I was terrified of time zone differences. When Tolyk said that it was past 2 AM in his region, it made me realize that quicktopic's midnight might be different from my own.
I was genuinely terrified the website would shut down at 10:00 or 11:00 PM for me.
Prince’s Guards
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=117744.0
Deadchat
https://web.archive.org/web/20211211033858/https://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yDMdxqDA6eDP?o=0&range=all&m1=1&mN=15&print=1&submit=Show+printable+page
Scumchat doesn’t appear to exist in this game in the thread? I’ll see if I can find it from ToonyMan or Leafsnail.
EDIT: Asked ToonyMan, he believes that no scumchat was in this game.
You don't need to believe. One of the players mentions it.
We still have some time left though awkwardly enough. Skimming NJW's page 8. I see nothing wrong with it.
The only other thing I can think of is PMing Meph and leafsnail and asking them for the deadchat of Cybrid Mafia 1. That was a game where basically nobody posted any chats, but it was considered a notable game anyway which was especially sad. The dead chat (if it existed) is at least a small consolation.
Toaster came through for the Imperial chat of Cybrid Mafia 2 in the end, and I'm glad I reached out, cause the info in there makes it a much juicier read.
Actually, just check Max Spin's post. For some reason, his page 10 is actually my page 12. Nobody archived the real page 10. This is an emergency! Can you still Help? I'll take top, you take bottom!
Edit: I did lonely prince Already. I'll start from bottom actually!
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 11:15:23 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 11:51:06 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2021, 11:55:32 pm
I made it up to Worse Things Happen At Sea.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: heydude6 on December 10, 2021, 11:57:25 pm
EDIT:
To avoid a double post, I just want to mention that I've integrated Webadict's work on page 10 with my own archive and am heading off to bed. It is 12 minutes past midnight where I am and quicktopic is still online.
Imagine if they meant the end of Saturday. Or they're going to close in the morning when the guy comes in. That'd be funny.
Jokes aside, I consider this Venture to be a success. We all came together in the end when we needed to and archived all of the public quicktopics. A few hidden ones have definitely been lost, but those were always bonus. They were never visible to the public eye and probably would have remained that way if this incident hadn't shone a new light on their importance.
So pat yourselves on the back and take a good rest. Good night!
Post by: Skynet on December 11, 2021, 11:08:08 am
Post by: heydude6 on December 11, 2021, 12:14:07 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 11, 2021, 03:25:08 pm
Actually, just check Max Spin's post. For some reason, his page 10 is actually my page 12. Nobody archived the real page 10. This is an emergency! Can you still Help? I'll take top, you take bottom!That's really weird. It's definitely 10 for me. There are 27 pages total, 25 threads per page. How many do you have?
Edit: I did lonely prince Already. I'll start from bottom actually!
Post by: webadict on December 11, 2021, 03:48:33 pm
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 11, 2021, 03:58:24 pm
Post by: TolyK on December 11, 2021, 04:10:15 pm
Meph, do you think it's a good idea to update all relevant messages on this forum to point to archive.org/.../quicktopic.com/... ?
I tried just using their toolbar, but that doesn't really work, since QuickTopic has set all URLs to redirect to their shutdown page. :/
Post by: Mephansteras on December 11, 2021, 04:19:12 pm
Meph, do you think it's a good idea to update all relevant messages on this forum to point to archive.org/.../quicktopic.com/... ?
I guess that depends on how much work would be involved in doing that sort of update.
Post by: webadict on December 11, 2021, 04:30:43 pm
Only issue is that only you could run it, since you have mod powers.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 11, 2021, 04:38:30 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 12, 2021, 12:01:41 am
EDIT: Although maybe that should be in the Notable Games Archive or something too.
Post by: TolyK on December 12, 2021, 06:25:01 am
Technically... we could write a script that would find-replace all instances.
Only issue is that only you could run it, since you have mod powers.
Which I could do, I'm fine with that. Though we'd probably want to get Toady's blessing before running an update script on his forum.
Yes, I think we could do that. However, we'd probably want to do a test run before going full auto-update, and have sanity checks (maybe manual confirmation?). Running untested scripts in prod has a tendency to be undexpected... :-X
Post by: NJW2000 on December 12, 2021, 07:54:35 am
Post by: webadict on December 12, 2021, 09:07:56 am
Post by: TolyK on December 12, 2021, 10:11:45 am
One way to do it would be to find all posts with QT links, look for the proper archive.org link (and verify it works), then prepare the edits to make, then run the changes with manual approval on each one (I estimate around a thousand links, or 800 unique ones, which would take maybe a hour to do manually, so... doable, I guess :p)
Post by: Mephansteras on December 12, 2021, 10:39:39 am
We can also put an announcement in the top of the Notable Games archive about it.
Post by: heydude6 on December 12, 2021, 11:13:50 am
Post by: TolyK on December 12, 2021, 11:44:19 am
Post by: Maximum Spin on December 12, 2021, 12:05:37 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 13, 2021, 08:46:37 pm
When I set out to do this, my goal was to preserve the bay12 mafia subforum in a way as to leave it as untouched by the quicktopic shutdown as possible. I wanted future forumites to have the same browsing experience as I did, rather than have their hearts broken by a bunch of 404 links. Such things create an atmosphere of decay, like a condemned building with broken windows. It doesn't matter if there are people still living in it, to the outside world it will appear to be dead which can only push it further into decline.
That's why I did my best to archive everything. I've had some friends ask me why I didn't just archive the "good" games, and I know many of you who wanted to prioritize the Notable Games Archive, but my goal had always been to preserve a community, rather than create a museum. A community isn't just a best-hits album. It's a mix of both the good and the bad, the classy and the cringe. A community is raw and lived-in, while a museum is sterile.
Having a stamp with all the updated links in the Opening or Final post may be useful, but it's a partial admission of defeat. It makes me think of the plaque on a statue, commemorating a former greatness that is nevertheless with us no longer. It's a statement that things have irrevokably changed as a result of the quicktopic shutdown, even though I believe this is far from the case.
Though we're all burnt out right now, it's important to remember that this was a triumph! The quicktopic shutdown threatened to gut our forum's history, but in response, we now have more quicktopic links available for viewing than we did before! Long-forgotten mysteries such as what the mafia were up to in BYOR: Choices (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=50703.0) have finally been resolved (spoilers: it was Webadict!), and we discovered hidden depths in games we thought we had all figured out. How many of you knew there was a private web chat in KILL WEBADICT NOW: WEBADICT EDITION (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97468.0) ?
(you'll have to wait for Tolyk to post his links before you can read the QTs though)
I want this to be a story about resiliency, rather than loss. I want this to be the story about how the subforum barely noticed when quicktopic shut down. I want this to be a story that we can one day forget.
I don't know what will ultimately happen to the links we saved, but I believe that if we are going to go through the effort of making a bot, then I believe it's worth going the extra mile to allow it to do seamless edits. To help this, I'd be willing to go through the effort of gathering quote URLs (ie. quoting the post that needs to be edited, and then saving that link). I believe we'll have an easier time achieving ideal results if the bot already knows which post it needs to edit, rather than spend time programming a sub-routine that has to search for it.
Whatever we do will likely take a while though. I think in the meantime it's important for us to post our quicktopic links somewhere where they are at least accessible, even if it's a bit rough.
I am a little burnt out though. I'll probably start this sometime after I finish my final exam on Saturday. I think a new topic just for the archive is a wise idea.
Post by: webadict on December 13, 2021, 10:00:31 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2021, 10:37:15 am
He does think it'll be best if it is throttled to avoid overloading the server by updating a ton of stuff at once, but that's easy to build in. Just make it sleep a few seconds in-between each update and it shouldn't cause any issues.
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2021, 06:31:35 pm
How many of you knew there was a private web chat in KILL WEBADICT NOW: WEBADICT EDITION (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=97468.0)
I did ;D
I agree, it would be nice to have a seamless updater. Meph, thank you for checking in about that with Toady.
Post by: TolyK on December 17, 2021, 04:47:02 pm
Post by: TolyK on December 23, 2021, 12:20:48 pm
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88317 (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88317)
It's possible we could adapt their app to our own QTs, however just updating the links may be preferable.
Post by: heydude6 on December 23, 2021, 01:08:17 pm
Ive been spending this week celebrating with my friends, but I think Ive held things up long enough, so Im going to give myself a deadline. By the end of this Saturday, I will have my archive posted somewhere. Most likely in a new thread.
Once thats done, well be able to start making progress on replacing links.
Post by: TolyK on December 23, 2021, 07:16:18 pm
Post by: heydude6 on December 23, 2021, 07:35:23 pm
What other features would you want though?
EDIT:
So its been two days since my Saturday deadline has come and passed. A younger version of myself would have slithered away in shame, but I know I cannot shy away from my failures. The reason why I'm editing a post rather than making a new one is because I don't want a notification giving people the false hope that I have finished. Ideally, the only people who will see this are potential bumpers who would have otherwise posted to ask what's taking so long.
As for what's taking so long, it's a few things. Firstly, the original deadline of Saturday, better known as Christmas day, was hopelessly unrealistic. Though I had a sad and lonely Christmas Day that year, I had a proper Christmas Eve party and was still pretty tired out from that. If I thought about it for a little, I would have forseen this and scheduled something better
More generally speaking though, my mood and sleep schedule are quite a mess at the moment. I wake up in the afternoon, and find myself lacking the energy or will to do anything in these last couple of days. I guess that's what you get from a week of partying.
Ultimately, I don't know when I'll get this done, but I want to at least have this posted before my winter break ends. Hopefully I'll get this done sooner than that.
Post by: TolyK on December 23, 2021, 08:25:27 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on December 28, 2021, 11:55:21 pm
I thought MafiaScum counted as that? The forum architecture was at one point rewritten so it could have its own native private topics without relying on a third-party website that might one day shut down. I wish bay12 had something like that, but there isn't a wide enough market for it.
You know, you can effectively do that with private messages if you tinker with your settings a little bit.
Profile > Direct Messaging
Display personal messages: as a conversation
Save a copy of each personal message in my sent items by default: on
This way when you reply to someone else's message, it'll appear as a thread. CC multiple people and you pretty much have a private thread. Main issue is getting people to change their settings.
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 08:21:54 pm
Unfortunately, I'm taking summer school this year and I've only got two days before classes start. Due to the Ukrainian war, my Aunt and her son ended up moving into my apartment and that kid takes up way more of my time than he reasonably should. Additionally, I'm supposed to be spending what little vacation time I do have doing job search cause someone's got to pay for the extra mouths we have to feed, but since the job search process is an incredibly dehumanizing thing that sucks the life out of you every time you write a resume (and you have to send out 100 of them if you even want a chance to obtain a minimum wage job flipping burgers at McDonalds >:(), I've instead been procrastinating and doing nothing of value instead.
So I decided fuck it! If I end up killing myself (not today at least), I want to make sure that the efforts we spent last Christmas didn't go in vain. I'm posting this as is, without making any edits so I apologize if its painful to navigate.
Spoiler: Page 33 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 32 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 31 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: page 30 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: page 29 (click to show/hide)
I have reached the character limit. I will post more pages as double posts. The page numbers are what they were at the time of archival. They certainly do not reflect what the forum currently looks like, but everything should still be there.
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 08:29:34 pm
Spoiler: Page 28 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 27 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 26 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 25 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 24 (click to show/hide)
Character limit reached again. There's a chance that automated forum software might block me for spamming a thread.
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 08:37:21 pm
Spoiler: Page 23 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 22 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 21 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 20 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 19 (click to show/hide)
Character limit.
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 08:45:30 pm
Spoiler: Page 18 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 17 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 16 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 15 (click to show/hide)
Limit reached a bit earlier. There were a lot of chats on this page
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 08:58:48 pm
Spoiler: Page 14 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 13 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Page 12 (click to show/hide)
Char limit reached again.
Post by: heydude6 on May 07, 2022, 09:16:43 pm
Spoiler: Page 10 (click to show/hide)
Below are a few Miscellaneous archives I had lying around my PC. Some of them have missing fields so it may take a little effort to figure out where they belong, but it should not be an impossible task.
Spoiler: A few bonus files (click to show/hide)
Anyway, that's all of the archive that I had on my PC. Like I said at the beginning, I didn't edit any of this to facilitate consumption so it'll be a pain in the ass to look through. The biggest thing I wanted to do was edit my notes because some of them have an unprofessional tone. Writing them wasn't strictly necessary, but having the ability to waste a little time to comment on the games I was preserving was a vital component to maintaining my sanity throughout this process.
I'm hoping Skynet an Tolyk will be able to find the time to post their own archives. It's important to have this information out here somewhere, even if it is unpolished, in case any of us gets hit by a bus.
This is not a long term solution though. This thing is barely searchable (You can do it by opening all the spoilers and using ctrl-f), the formatting is ass, it's filled with useless filler, and most importantly of all, key bits of info such as recovered missing chats are not present where they should be. I think the biggest reason to keep an archive, is so that new prospective players can look at our past games and fully experience their original glory. A new player is likely not going to be motivated to search through this to find the archived QT link to a game they finished reading.
This stuff should at least be placed in a pinned topic with an eye-catching title.
I will eventually return to this and do the stuff I set out to-do, but at least by posting this here, there's chance someone may be able to continue this work if I get hit by a bus.
I'm thankful to all of you for making Bay12 mafia the place it is. I know it wasn't right to hold onto these for so long, but I hope that by posting these, some of you will be relieved to know that your work isn't lost forever.
Post by: TolyK on May 09, 2022, 08:43:12 am
Here are the links to Google Drive for the following:
The entire Mafia subforum's posts in 1 JSON file, as of 2022-12-11 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Wa9zpADCiz_LL4bK4f9ZUBXE_kar9Kg/view?usp=sharing)
The scraped HTML code for all (available) QuickTopics that were linked in the subforum (https://drive.google.com/file/d/135kuMXzxY0Q7SsIUkf8ofikaqrqMDImR/view?usp=sharing)
The QuickTopic HTML file names are MD5 hashes of the QuickTopic URL, and additionally each HTML file contains a comment that mentions the canonical QuickTopic URL that it was scraped from.
This should be enough to map all possible links from the Mafia subforum to these QuickTopic pages.
I had wanted to make a "viewer" for these, but my like kinda fell apart the past few months so that's been put back indefinitely. :P
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 12:55:58 am
I'd like to clear out some servers, but wanted to make sure their contents were "saved" first.
Post by: heydude6 on May 20, 2022, 08:01:55 am
Originally, I was only planning on focusing on discord archival once this current archive was complete. By, that I mean published in a readable format. If there is an urgency in the matter that I was not aware of, then I can move it up the priorities list. It should probably be quicker for me to figure out a method of discord archival than it would be to polish the previous archive.
I have this weekend free, I’ll look into it. Delay the server clearing till after Victoria Day if you can
Post by: EuchreJack on May 20, 2022, 08:08:12 am
Thanks for the update! I appreciate your hard work on this.